# Sultans of Smack



## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Ayla Smackdown (Paladin Smackdown)*
Originally posted by Carpe DM

This tactic allows a high level Paladin to deliver a near-unmissable 250-500 points of damage in one round.

Tactic Title: Ayla Smackdown

Paladin (Ayla Flamehair), 16th Level

Feats Needed:

Mounted Combat
Ride-by Attack
Spirited Charge
Power Attack

Spells Needed:

Holy Sword
(Optional) Sacred Journey 

Items Needed:

Lance (any)
Boots of Speed
potions of True Strike (ioun stone/ring with true strike stored in it)

The Tactic:

Rd 1: (usually surprise rd)(partial Action): Activate Boots of Speed
(extra partial action): Cast Holy Sword

Rd 2: (partial action) Drink potion of True Strike (or use other method)
(standard action) Charge, smiting and power attacking 

The Damage: 

The base damage is:

1. Full Power Attack (16 pts=base attack. Note that True Strike more than compensates for this).
2. Smite (16 pts. If sacred journey has been cast, 32 pts). 
3. Holy Sworded Lance (5 pts.)
4. Strength (5 pts. I assume 5, b/c at the very least you should be able to get a 20 strength from a buddy casting an empowered bull strength giving 6 pt increase).

This equals, given sacred journey, gives 58 base points of damage, added to the weapon damage.

Note that in practice, Divine Might (see DotF scoop on RPGplanet), Divine Favor (spell), Bardsongs, etc. all add marginal points of damage here, but we'll keep it simple for now.

So, currently we're at a base of 1d8 (lance) + 58.

We then note a X3 multiplier from the spirited charge feat, AND an extra X2 from the holy sword. X3+X2=X4, under the rules.

Therefore, this attack, which is almost guaranteed to hit (our paladin has a + 35 or so to hit when she does it), will deliver an average of:

(1d8 + 58) X 4, equaling

4d8 + 232, which (given a 4.5 average on a d8) works out to 232+18, which is 250 points of damage. 

Note that on a critical hit, the x3 crit multiplier of the lance will also apply, leading to X3 + X2 + X3, equaling X6 damage. 

On a critical, the attack will therefore do:

6d8+348, which works out on average to 375 points of damage in one shot.

Variations of the Smackdown:

Try adding:

Divine Favor (extra +2 or +3 or even +10 if charisma focus’d paladin with armor of command, cloak of charisma etc, multiplied by 4)

Horseshoes of speed: doubles charge range of the paladin's warhorse.

Bardsongs (giving plusses to hit and damage)

Ayla's Special Smackdown (maxed out variation):

This version requires a party mage to cast mass haste, including the Paladin's warhorse as a subject.

Since the Sacred Journey grants two double-strength smites a day, the paladin may then do the above, but she can also wait for a new round (and power up additionally in the first rd of combat, usually with divine favor), then:

charge as a standard action, doing 250 pts of damage (on average) and then ride-by, per the feat (note: no attacks of opp for this, see the feat).

THEN, once she is past her target, she wheels and for her partial action, she:

partial charges, with the second smite. Note that this only works if the mass haste gives the paladin's warhorse the extra needed action for the second charge.

This, on average, yields 500 points of damage.

Questions? Comments? Improvements?

Very best,

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Orcish Barbarian Smackdown*
Originally posted by Carpe DM

Ok, this one works best if the user is an NPC Fiendish Orc(so this one's for you, DMs), but the principles work fine for PCs too.

Required Race:

Half-Orc, Fiendish template

Required Classes:

Barbarian 6
Blessed of Gruumsh 9 (see Dragon #282)

Required Items:

Orcish Double Axe (Greater MWeaponed to +5 / +5 by your friendly neighborhood cleric)
Boots of Speed (for haste)

Required Feats:

Ambidexterity
Two-weapon fighting
Improved Two-weapon Fighting

The Tactic Summary:

From surprise, the Blessed delivers a devastating charge. On the first round of combat, the Blessed then attacks 12 (yup, 12!) times.

The charge:

The Blessed charges, raging and using his Luck of Gruumsh ability to add +8 to hit, while smiting (from fiendish template), power attacking and using his Fist of Gruumsh ability to add to damage.

His attack is at: +15 base, +9 (luck of Gruumsh), +12 (strength: start with a 20 strength (18 +2 racial), add 4 for the level-ups (assuming 16th level here) then get +6 from an empowered bull's strength and +4 for the rage, puts you at 34 strength) and +5 (weapon). Also add +2 (charge).

This puts him at a +43. If you really want this to hurt, have him drink a potion of true strike first, and do a full power attack. Even without the TS, he can full power attack (15 points, let's say) and still be at +28, hitting AC 38 on average. Not bad.

Damage is: 

1d8 + 15 (power attack) + 18 (two handed blow means 1.5 * 12) + 15 (smite from fiendish template) + 5 (weapon) = 

1d8 + 53 + 3d6 (from Fist of Gruumsh), or on average, 68 points of damage.

If he crits (due to improved crit feat and keen weapon spell, if he has the sense to use them), he'll do: 

3d8 + 159 + 3d6, which is roughly 192 points of damage. Not too slouchy.

But the really nasty surprise comes the next round, now that he's closed with the enemy. 

The Blessed takes a full attack action, and uses his Thunderous Roar ability, so his main attacks are, if he's hasted, 

(partial action) +34/+34 

(full attack action)+34/+34/+29/+29/+24/+24 as main attacks and +34/+34/+29/+29 for his offhand attacks, giving a total of 12 attacks in one round.

Each attack does 1d8 + 12 + 5 (for main attacks) and 1d8 + 6 + 5 (for offhand attacks). 

If he were to hit on all attacks (which I'll address here in a second), he'll do 8d8 + 96 + 40 (or, on average 172 pts of damage) from main attacks and 4d8 + 24 + 20 (or, on average, 62 pts of damage) from offhand attacks.

The total? 234 points of damage in Round One, following the 68-192 points of damage he did in the surprise round. 

So the difficulty here is that he has to hit. That's true, but his lowest attack is at +24, and that's nothing to slouch at. Furthermore, four of his attacks are going to be at the highest level (+34) which is going to hit almost anything.

Paladin: "What ho, ye scurvy orcs! Flee my path, or suffer my righteous indignation."

Orcish Blessed of Gruumsh: SMACK! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! WHAM!

Paladin: "Gurgle..."

Orcs: "Thanks, Carpe!"

Ah, yes...Orcs are back.

Enjoy,

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Jack the Knife*
Originally posted by Carpe DM

The idea: by making a Rogue who can use a wand of monster summoning to flank or a scroll to gain improved invisibility, you turn all of your attacks into sneak attacks.

Required:

Feats:

Quick Draw (to get the knives out fast--you'll be throwing some)
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Weapon finesse: Dagger (so you can hit with those daggers while improving your initiative and AC...both of which are crucial for this tactic).
(nice) Improved Initiative
(later, at higher levels) Improved Two-weapon fighting

Skills:

Use Magic Device (for wands of monster summoning).

Items: 

Wand of Monster Summoning
Boots of Speed
(preferably) Magical daggers (or if you can't get those, have your friendly cleric toss a greater magic weapon on one).

Classes:

1 ranger (so you can fight with two daggers)
Rogue (as many as you like)
Assassin (if you can get it)

Note: you can do this with any class that continues to gather sneak attack damage.

Ok, so the idea is simple: by taking 1 level of ranger (why anyone would take more than one is beyond me...what a terrible class) and the feats listed above, you are able to get a large number of attacks, either ranged or fighting with a dagger in each hand.

In the first round, throw as many daggers as you can. If you get surprise (and what rogue worth his salt can't?) do the following:

Surprise Rd: Haste (boots); (extra partial): throw dagger. Dagger gets (assuming Rogue 9, Ranger 1, Assassin 5) 8d6 sneak attack damage.

Rd 1: Hopefully you go first (since your dexterity is above 20 due to an empowered cat's grace, and you've got improved initiative, right?). If you do, then throw five daggers at a flatfooted target (4 due to rapid shot, 1 for the partial action). Each does 8d6 damage.

This is 40d6 in round 1.

If you don't go first, all is not lost. Use your partial action to either (1) use a scroll of improved invisibility or (2) use a wand of monster summoning to flank a creature. Then take your attacks as melee sneak attacks. Due to improved two-weapon fighting, you should get off five (three standard, two offhand) sneak attacks due to flanking. Each of these does 8d6; again, you do 40d6 in round one.

What makes this work is that if you summon your flanking creature on your turn, your opponent doesn't have a chance to take it out until you get your sneak attacks in. Sure, they kill your fiendish badger on their turn, but you summon another one. You get the picture.

Of course, if your opponents are incompetent enough to not be able to see invisible, then your best bet is to use improved invis (scroll) and rake them with thrown daggers. Also note that if the party has some way of stunning enemies (is there a monk in your party? See the Monk Smackdown listed here too. The Eyebite spell works great too here) you can simply wipe out anyone that is stunned. 40d6 goes a long, long way.

The usual method, though, is to haste up and throw an 8d6 shot in the surprise round, get the 40d6 sneak attacks ranged against flatfooted targets in the first round (by maxing out initiative bonuses so you can clock people who are still flatfooted), then monster summon / melee any remaining targets for 40d6 a round.

Variations:

Use a magical + mighty bow, and have a cleric throw greater magic weapon on the arrows. Let's assume a +3 mighty bow, and let's assume you're magicked up to have a +3 strength bonus. (Note that due to a recent sage advice ruling, you can use a mighty bow even if your strength doesn't currently match the mighty bonus on the bow). The Cleric can give you +4 arrows (cause he's 12th level). So you're looking at +10 damage per hit; at five arrows a round, you're doing 5d8 + 40d6 + 50, for a rough total (at 3.5 average for d6 and 4.5 for d8) of 22 + 140 + 50 per round.

This puts you at 212 points of damage a round, which gets you into the Smackdown Club...weaker tactics are turned away at the door.

Before someone goes off, I know you probably won't hit on all of those shots. That's true...but you were using Keen Edge on those arrows weren't you? (Official now...arrows can use it, 50 at a time). And you have improved critical, right? Which means criticals on 18-20, which somewhat offsets the occasional miss. Plus you're always at an advantage to hit: you're either invisible (+2 to hit, and they don't have their dex against you) or acting first (they don't have their dex against you) or flanking them (-2 to their armor class). And you have that phenomenal dexterity (our Rogue started with an 18 or so, raised it to 22 with 4 level increases, adds +4 from a cat's grace for a total of Dex 26 plus his base attack bonus plus bow bonus plus arrow bonus.) I think his attack bonuses work out somewhere around +30 for a first attack. He doesn't miss very often.

So, there you have it. On average, the rogue does 212 pts of damage on round one and each subsequent round.

Very best,

Carpe

_Notes from CRGreathouse:

Analysis of Carpe's "Jack the Knife" Smackdown

Levels: Rgr1/Rog15/Assassin3

Race: elf

Feats: Improved Critical (dagger), Improved Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Finesse (dagger), Weapon Focus (dagger)

Skill ranks: Disguise (4), Hide (8), Move Silently (8)

Equipment: boots of speed, 5 daggers

Outside help: 5 greater magic weapon @ caster level 16, 1 maximized cat’s grace @ caster level 9.

Ability scores: Str 14; Dex 18 + 2 (racial) + 4 (leveling) + 5 (cat’s grace) = 29
Initiative: +9 (Dex) + 4 (Improved Initiative) = +13

Attack bonus: +14 (base attack bonus) + 9 (Dex) + 1 (Weapon Focus) + 5 (greater magic weapon) = +29

Ranged attack routine: +27/+27/+27/+22/+17 (1d4+7*)

* +10d6 on a sneak attack

Average damage per hit with sneak attack: 44.5

Extra damage on a crit: 9.5

Vs. AC 25: average damage 198.5 without crits, 203.86 with crits_


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Arcane Smackdown*

Originally posted by Carpe DM

This is a tactic I've used in our campaign against my PCs. In fact, it's the favored tactic of the PCs evil nemesis, Zera Ahashtyn (a beautiful elven woman...  I wonder why they hate her with such sweet passion? (laughs demonically)).

First, let me note that 9th level spell smackdowns are too easy.

For example:

Time Stop
Meteor Swarm (Targeted)
Power Word: Kill

This will kill nearly any PC with no save. But it's no fun.

So here's a nasty tactic for lower level spells. The idea here is to get a spell DC higher than God almighty, and then hit the PCs with multiple spells. You can do a lot of this with core rules, but the really really nasty versions use Ritual & Relics spells. 

To do this, start with a Sun Elf character (+2 to intelligence) and an 18 attribute base. Zera starts, therefore, at 20 intelligence. Then add Spellcasting Prodigy (which you have to take at 1st level). That puts your effective intelligence at 22. Then add your level increases. (+4 for our usual 16th level Smackdown character), so 26. Then add either a 6 point headband of intellect, or an Empowered Perfect Recollection (from R&R...I'm betting a similar spell comes out in FR, since I've seen the charisma variant in Dragon) to increase your intelligence to 32. Finally, Zera was able to secure two points through one of the attribute-increasing manuals; you don't need those points, but they help.

So now you have a 34 intelligence. This gives your save DCs a +12. But wait. There's more.

At this point, you'll need to find out two things. First, is your character evil? Second, can you use Rituals and Relics spells? Recognizing most people's interest in playing good characters and using only core rulebooks, I'll give the standard spell only version first, then the really nasty evil / r&r version later.

Take spell focus: evocation and greater spell focus: evocation. Now your save DCs are +16. 

Finally, it's silly for mages to keep gaining mage levels after 10th level. So take those extra levels in Arcane Devotee; your spells are just as good, and you get a lot of extra abilities, including the Enlarge Spell power, which doesn't add any spell slots to the base spell to use. Normally this doesn't add to the area of effect (just increases distance) but it actually does for cone-effects.

So, scanning our lists for cone effects, we discover the 7th level spell Prismatic spray. Normally a 60 foot length, it doubles in size under the effect of our Arcane Devotee power.

Ok, so, now the only question is how to get off a lot of spells against those pesky targets? Here I'm going to reinsert R&R spells; just remove them to do a core rulebook version.

Rituals and Relics REALLY BAD SMACKDOWN

(surprise rd): 

(partial action) Haste, (extra partial action) Two Minds (a 9th level spell allowing you to cast an extra spell a round), (Quickened free action) Quickened mirror image (for defense), (Free Action) Renewed focus.

Ok, what does this do? First, note you've cast 4 spells in the surprise round. And boy, does it get worse in round 1. Renewed Focus is cast as a free action, like Feather Fall is; it's a 2d level spell, and lets you act like you've renewed your focus as an initiative action. So you're going to go first in the first round of combat, since your initiative is going to be 20 plus any initiative feats plus your dex bonus.

So, in Round 1, cast:

(standard) Prismatic Spray (save DC 33, by the way), (partial) Prismatic Spray, (two minds action) Prismatic Spray (or your next highest evocation spell), (Quickened Free Action) Add any remaining evocation spell, quickened. If nothing more, magic missile. 

So now you've gotten off 3 extended prismatic sprays and a magic missile (or any other evocation--fireball works) off in one round. Nobody will be left standing; they'll all be dead / insane / on other planes.

For a lower level version of this, of course, throw as many of your super-DC evocation spells of your highest levels as you can.

But you wanted to make this version worse, right? I mean, c'mon, we can do better.

Ok, let's switch our spell focus and greater spell focus to Necromancy. Now, if you only have the Core Rules, throw Horrid Wiltings for your three first-round spells. The advantage there is that these are Fort saves, so everyone will take at least half damage (evasion won't apply). 

Assuming people aren't hitting 33 saves with any regularity, and given a 16th level character, this attack will deal 48d8 points of damage (or roughly 216 points of damage) in one round.

But we can actually make it worse, if your DM approves Rituals & Relics (trust me, if he reads the smacks on this board, he won't). Instead of those Horrid Wiltings, throw Shadow Storms. 

For those of you unfamiliar with the spell, Shadow Storm does 1/2 caster level in both constitution and strength damage on a failed fortitude save; 1/4 on a successful save. It also does some damage (4d12 + 1 per level, I think) on a second reflex save; but that's unimportant. What's important is that even on a failed save you take 4 points con and strength damage. 

This means two things: first, remember we're casting this three times. The targets will take a MINIMUM of 12 con and strength damage, on 3 successful saves. But the strange thing about this spell is that it targets the very attribute that generates its save. So after you take the first 4 points con damage, your fort save is at -2. And so on. If you fail those saves, you'll take 24 points of Con and Strength damage...enough to kill anyone.

Finally, note that the Shadowstorm is an area effect spell, so you're likely to be able to kill an entire adventuring group (or group of mobs if you're an adventurer) in round one.

Enjoy,

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Monk Smackdown*
Originally posted by Carpe DM

This tactic does not instantly kill opponents as do the Paladin and Cleric smackdowns (in previous posts). It renders the target helpless and puts him out of the fight. It can be delivered from tremendous range and does serious damage to boot.

The Smackdown: The monk will charge from 320 feet away, and deliver a flying kick which will do 2d12 + 40 points of damage and leave the target stunned for one round, and nauseated and unable to move for the next.

Required: 

Spells:
Cast Divine Wisdom, empowered, at the beginning of the day. This will give 6 points of wisdom. DW is from Relics and Rituals; the spell is not necessary, but very useful, since wis adds to both stun DC and the monk's AC.

Items:

Potions of True Strike
Monk's Belt (for Haste)
Sandals of the Tiger (from S&F) with layered Boots of Striding and Springing. (this second power will cost you double because it is added to a slotted item (see the DMG), but since the power costs all of 1000* gp for a mage to create, you'll end up striding for 2000* gp. The best deal in the game).  *errata has altered this slightly
Ki Straps (from Sword and Fist)

Feats:

Pain Touch
Power Attack

Rd 1: The monk hastes herself (monk's belt)

Rd1 partial: The monk drinks a potion of true strike.

Rd 2: The monk launches a 320 foot flying kick. Her base move is 80 (I'm assuming a 15th level monk); the striding makes it 160. Doubled (for a charge), this is 320.

The flying kick (based on the Sandals) does double damage, so

1d12 + 10-15 (power attack) + 5 (strength bonus) * 2 = 2d12 + 40.

But the real smackdown is in the stun. Save DC is 10 + half monk's level (7 or 8) + wisdom bonus (5 at least, see Divine Wisdom), + 5 (Ki straps). Our monk, who started with an 18 wisdom (raised to 24 by the DW), delivers a stun with a DC of 

10 + 8 + 7 (wis) + 5 = 30.

When they're stunned, they're out of combat for 2 rounds, because of the pain touch feat.

What's great about this tactic is that you can basically do it once every round, since your save DC is 30 for the stuns. The extra damage and distance for the charge is neat, but what really hurts is having a monk keep half of the opposition stunned / nauseated during a fight.

Also note that anyone who fails that 30 DC save is vulnerable to sneak attack damage from rogues. Our rogue has 5 attacks (hasted, rapid shot--you get the idea), each one doing 1d8+7d6 damage. He usually delays to attack after the monk, and kills whoever she stuns in one round.

Evil Mage: "Hmm...those pesky heroes are 450 feet away...just about fireball range; but those fighter types can't hurt me!!!"

Hasted Monk: (Run as partial action for 160 feet, flying kick for 320 feet; total 480 feet.)

Evil Mage: (gurgles as he fails his 30 DC save, takes 50 odd points of damage, drops his components and his staff automatically b/c of the stun). The party closes in (or just multiple-fireballs the both of them, since the monk has evasion, and stunned boy doesn't get a save).

Monk: Thanks Carpe!

Enjoy!

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Cleric Smackdown*
Originally posted by Carpe DM

Required:

Spells:

True Strike (A cleric can get access to this through either the Elf or Fate domains).
Harm.

Items:

Boots of Speed

Once the Cleric is hasted up, he casts true strike as a partial action, and harm as a standard action. This will take nearly any creature down to 1-4 hp in one round. There is no save to the harm, and remember that the spell is a touch attack, so no armor or natural armor applies. With a plus 20, you're pretty much guaranteed to hit.

Our cleric just did this to a high level barbarian / blessed of Gruumsh (which are GREAT characters for DMs to use; see Dragon #282)...the barbarian lost 201 hit points. Yes, we here at Smackdown Productions scorn any attack that does less than 200 points of damage.  

Spell resistance is the only thing that stops it, and if the cleric is smart he'll have taken Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. Bye-bye critter.

For a really nasty variation, take a Hierophant level (from FR Guidelines) and pick up that ranged touch attack ability. Then anything that gets 30 feet from the cleric is toast.

And the very best? Have someone else do at least 5 points of subdual damage to the creature first. 

Rd 1: Fighter punches Dragon in the nose. Does 5 points of subdual damage.

Rd 1: Cleric: True strike / Harm. Dragon has 3 hp. Dragon is subdued. End of encounter.

And before somebody says something like "but Destruction kills someone straight off!", let me remind you that Destruction has a save...and a fortitude save at that. What high level creature doesn't have a +14-20 fort save?

And finally, use a Heal version of this to deal with pesky undead.

And yes, I know, what dragon/lich/demon/assorted other monstrous badass would be stupid enough to let PCs get close to him? Mine don't. But hey, your DM may drop the ball. When he does, *WHAM*. 

Best,

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Dragon Smackdown*

Originally posted by Carpe DM

Well, since I've posted a few smacks for Characters, I thought I'd add one for DMs.

Here's a tactic I use with Dragons all the time...enough to render Dragons as scary as they're supposed to be (in the face of my save-maxed party, all of whom have +20 or so reflex saves...sigh).

The idea is simple: You get no save to a breath weapon when you're in the dragon's mouth.

If the Dragon can cast Harm, by the way, just harm them when biting, and good-bye (remember--you can deliver a touch attack via a standard attack, and with a Dragon's massive bonuses to hit, the character is toast.

But assuming a lower-level dragon, do the following.

Have the Dragon cast haste before combat (c'mon, you knew to do that), and if you have time, cast shocking grasp (if low level) or Slay Living (if high level) as a touch spell, and hold the charge. Now, swoop down on those pesky PCs.

Do a Fly-By attack, snatching one of the characters (standard action), breathing on him (partial action), and dropping him to fall far far to the ground as a free action once you've completed the fly-by and gained altitude.

You do bite damage, then automatically try to grapple, which does bite damage again (so now they've taken 2x bite).

So, assuming a Mature Adult Red Dragon, (bulled up, of course) you'll do:

2d8 (bite 1) + 13 (11 standard str, 2 bulls).

2d8 (bite 2) + 13 (same) for grapple.

1d8 + 9 (shocking grasp), OR Slay Living damage.

Breath Weapon (no save): 14d10 = 77 points on average. 

Drop as free action (assuming only a 100 foot climb, given a 500 foot move): 10d6, or 35 points of damage on average.

1 rd total: 77 + 35 + 26 + 18 = 156 damage, plus the shocking grasp or the Slay Living. And, of course, if the Slay takes out the character on the bite, you can just drop the guy and breath on the whole party.

Better ideas? Remember--keep it low level (Mature Adult Red) or such, so that we don't just devolve into high level spellcasting scenarios.

Very best,

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Notes from the Chief*

Originally posted by Carpe DM

(looks around the office; nods)

Fantastic stuff, people. 

A few clarifications, other than the usual silly stuff (yes, true strike potions exist, as per WotC. Can we not have this conversation every time? Besides, it doesn't matter. See spell-storing ioun stones.)

So here are a few smacks and smack variants. I'll keep the core ideas simple; the ramifications are usually pretty clear.

1. Dust of Sneezing and Choking + sneak attack. There's no save vs. the stun caused by the dust. The stun lasts up to 20 rounds (5d4). 

2. Ring of Blinking (for rogues). Cheap, and turns all of your rogue's attacks into sneaks. Take a level of ranger, pick up expert tactician as a feat and get boots of haste, and you'll be able to attack 7 times a round, doing sneak attack damage every time. 

3. Spell storing weapons (for paladins and clerics). This is a must.

The key here is that a spell storing weapon discharges its spell as a free action when you decide to unload. So, as a paladin, you load Divine Sacrifice into your weapon before the battle (preferably the day before so you get the spell back). Then use spirited charge, deliver that huge damage, and then add the 5d6 damage on top of it.

This is VERY effective when used with the Shield Charge feat and a spell storing shield of bashing (as per Reapersaurus' shield charge special).

One really cool thing to do in conjunction with this at low levels is Pearls of Power. They cost 1,000 for the 1st level ones. Paladins need at least 5 of these things, to keep the spells going. 

If you have Shield Charge, and a +1 shield of bashing / spell storing, you can have Spikes cast on the shield by a cleric buddy (doubling threat range and causing massive damage), fire up divine might, have divine sacrifice IN your shield, cast any combat spell you like ON your shield (I prefer Smite from R&R, because you can cast it well before combat), smite, and charge (gaining double damage from the S. Charge). With haste and the ready action action, you can do a double charge in one round (charge twice). With a 6th level character I did a double charge the other day that did over 180 points of damage. Plus, you can smite (using your own personal smite, not the spell, which you've cast on your weapon).

There are more, but including Dust, Rings of Blinking and Spell Storing weapons in your game goes a long way.

Now, I included DS as the spell to use because it's core. Note that by FAR the best way to do the variant "Stored Smack" is to use the R&R smite spell. What's nasty about that spell is that it can be cast ON a weapon and held until combat. So you cast smite:

1. IN your spell storing weapon,
2. ON your spell storing weapon,
3. and then you SMITE as per your own power.

If you're using a R&R Sacred Journey, your own smite is double strength. So now, you're packing 4 smites into one punch.

Pretty nasty. Since these ARE multiplied, you'd be putting a nasty hurt on.

And before you say that it's obvious these shouldn't stack, consider the fact that all of the various different smite powers (smite fiend, smite evil, holy liberator smite, etc.) are indeed combinable into one attack.

Of course, DMs may, for good cause, rule that the smite effects can only be used once, not in, on and personal. That's why I included the DS variant.

And as for flaming, just look at the damage. Compare 17.5 to 3.5 for flaming. Absolutely no comparison--it's your best buy on the market. The 10 points of damage to you, remember, is not a big issue, since you can choose to use the spell if you're hard up for hit points, and since your hit points are so cheap to heal after a fight.

By the way, I've noticed that dragon 287 has all KINDS of ways to optimize your smacks via the planar faction prestige classes. 

Takers. Mmmm, good. 2d level, they get Righteous Might? Hooboy. Revise the Paladin Smack to include 2 levels of Taker, and you can get a +4 enlargement bonus to str, and turn that d8 lance damage to 2d6, multiplied to 8d6 when you hit them with spirited charge and a holy sworded lance. Ok, so it's chump change on top of the 600 points of damage you're already doing, but it's a thought. And the +2 enlargement bonus applies to your str, and lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Character level (not class), so you more than make up for the two points of smite damage you're not getting. 

Besides, at 1st level Taker you can cast True Strike, thus shutting up your DM if he insists that TS potions don't exist.

And finally? Remember that with shared spell, your mount benefits from Righteous Might as well. Stomp.

(settles in, rolls up shirtsleeves)

Howdy, folks.

Had an interesting move happen in a game the other night.

Githyanki Gladiator / Psywar.  He bluffed as his move equivalent, then used Deep Impact to negate armor.

Darn near stripped an uberbuffed AC character down to a 10 AC.

Then, of course, he pulled a full power attack.

Ow ow ow...

BTW, the other thought I have is to modify the Paladin Smack I made so long ago with the Power Critical feat.

That, on a lance, with Spirited Charge, in Rhino Hide Armor, with Holy Sword cast on the Lance equals x7 damage. With a full power attack (+20), +5 weapon, and even just a normal smite (+20), and +5 strength (very conservative for that power level) you're looking at 350 points of damage straight by the book.  That can get up over 800 if you tweak it.

Very best,

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Brother Joachim "Liches are my Bitches" Smackdown*
Originally posted by Carpe DM

_Editor’s Note: I can’t post the original post, and the subsequent fixes, so I’ll just post the *closest* version to a corrected maximized version.  Please see the original post for detailed analysis._

Using your 11th Level example, we have:  Clr 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 5

TURNING CHECK:

+3 (consecrate. +6 if you use the shrine / haversack trick)
+10 (heighten--notice I'm not using the whole bit, just enough to get +19)
+6 (charisma)
+2 (glory)
-2 (empower)
---
+19 to turn check. This guarantees a +4.

Then we calculate effective level.

EFFECTIVE LEVEL: 

+4 (turning check result)
+2 (sacred armor)
+2 (sacred shield)
+4 (amulet of turning)
+4 (rod of authority)
+11 (level)
---
27, effective level. So, the smack will destroy anything of 27th level or less.

Finally, we do turning damage. Effective level does NOT plug into turning damage, but cleric / turning prestige class levels do. And since those magic items which added to effective level also add to damage, we count them again. Note that the turning check bonus to effective level DOESN'T seem to carry across. It simply says to add your level, not your effective level.

+2 (Sacred armor)
+2 (Sacred shield)
+4 (rod of authority)
+4 (amulet of turning)
+11 (level)
+6 (charisma: I know you used +9; this is adjustable)
-10 (heighten)
+2d6 (base)
+2d6 (empower)
+1d6 (glory)
---
5d6 + 19, for an average of 19+ 17.5 = 36.5.

Note that this framework would only be used if the cleric were trying to wipe out a very high level monster (27 hit dice) and didn't care about damage.

If we were going after our average 11th level monster, you'd drop the heighten turning, and go for the gusto on the turning damage. In that case you'd do 5d6 + 29= 17.5 + 29 = 46.5 turning damage of hit dice.

best,

Carpe


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Super AC Man*

Originally posted by wmuench

Okay, here he is. Final AC, 142. I don't have time to break it down entirely (such as this is his AC while fighting defensively, while moving through a threatened area, etc.), so here is the situation where he gets this AC:

Fighting a single opponent and moving through that opponent's threatened area, provoking an AoO while fighting defensively. I think that covers it. If you see anything wrong, let me know.

Grey Elf Mnk2/Pal2/Clr3/Psion2/Mystic Wanderer 1/Duelist 10

Base: 10
Ectoplasmic Armor Power Stone: +10 armor
Shield of Prudence Power Stone: +6 insight
Skin of the Hero: +3 luck
Ring of Protection +5: +5 deflection
Monk's Belt: +4 haste
Dexterity 36*: +13 dexterity
Wisdom 32*: +11 wisdom
Intelligence 34*: +12 intelligence
Charisma 32*: +11 sacred
Dodge: +1 dodge
Psionic Dodge: +1 dodge
Enhanced Mobility: +8 dodge
Holy Star scroll/potion: +10 cover
Elaborate Parry: +10 dodge
Fighting Def w/ 5 in Tumble: +3 dodge
Two +5 Defender Weapons: +10 unnamed
Amulet of Natural Armor +5: +5 natural armor
Off-Hand Parry: +2 dodge
Twin Sword Style: +2 armor (stacks)
Expertise: +5 dodge

Total: 142
----

* Stats break down as follows:

Dexterity: 18 (base) + 2 (racial) + 5 (levels) +5 (inherent) + 6 (gloves) = 36.
Intelligence: 18 (base) + 2 (racial) +5 (inherent) +6 (headband) + 3 (age) = 34.
Wisdom: 18 (base) + 5 (inherent) + 6 (periapt) + 3 (age) = 32.
Charisma: 18 (base) + 5 (inherent) + 6 (cloak) + 3 (age) = 32.

In order to get the mental aging bonuses without losing physical stats, use a Rod of Security to spend 99% of your time in the demiplane so you don't physically age. This is open to interpretation, however, so if you don't buy it his AC will be 3 less (ONLY 139...).
----

Note 1: If you polymorph into a Green Hag you get a natural armor bonus of +11, but your Dex drops to 12 + items/spells, which makes it imprudent if my calculations are correct. So no polymorphing for this guy... Also, reduce'ing doesn't work because it specifically doesn't change your AC.
----

Note 2:

Also, as a note, I don't think that the Bladesong style and the Duelist Int bonus stacks. There are very, very few instances where a stat modifier stacks with itself (I think there's only one, but I can't remember what it is). If it does stack, well, swap out a level of something for a level of Bladesinger for another +12... I mention this because it was brought up last time.
-------------------------------

------------------
William R. Muench

_Author’s Note: Actually, if you check page #3 of my post, there's an updated version with an AC of 160..._

_<Editor’s Note: With the now available Superior Expertise from Oriental Adventures, even greater armor class is possible.>_


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Psychic Warrior Smackdown*
Originally posted by floodland

I thought of this for a 13th lvl psychic warrior.

You can make a mind feeder weapon by yourself (lvl 12, craft psionic arms and armor, psychic vampire, metaphysical weapon). 

Combine this with ambidex, 2 weap, 1mproved 2 weap, power attack, psionic weapon and deep impact, weapon focus and improved critical. That’s a total of 9 feats including the craft feat.  

You'll need to get the weapon keen enchanted as well for best effect, and preferably a weapon with a good threat range (maybe scimitar). 

Thus in a full round attack at 13th level you would get 4 attacks (2 offhand). Polymorph to a giant and use animal affinity or any other way for a decent strength boost. If someone hastes you even better. And for an extension of this add graft weapon and dissolving touch x2. 

In case you haven't guessed already you use deep impact on every strike, and against most foes you can put everything from power attack into damage, giving probably ~20hp min damage each hit (can't be bothered to work it out) plus weapon enhancements, psionic weapon, specialization etc.

On average with a keen scimitar you'll do a critical a little less than 50/50, gaining a minimum of 40pp each time (text for mindfeeder says ALL damage), meaning that you'll get back way more pp than the cost of all the deep impacts and any other buffs. You'll also do a bare minimum of 100hp damage. 

The only drawback is the initial outlay of pp, but that’s what crystal capacitors are for, and unless I hear I otherwise I assume that you can charge them with temporary pp gained.

You can do all these at much lower levels, all you need is access to a mindfeeder weapon. 

Er sorry that turned into a bit of a rant. I'm sure you'll all correct me if I got this all wrong, and if anyone thinks this is a fun idea then maybe they can do the stats


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Teamwork Smackdown*
Originally posted by Jeremy

3 member 15th level party vs. 3 glabrezu tanari.

Assume party wins init. Party is...

Wiz 8(Transmuter)/Dev 5/Acm 2 with spell power +1/+2, prodigy, focus, greater focus, penetration, greater penetration and twin spell inbetween feats required for his prestige classes.

Pal 9/Tem 2/Cav 4 with his requirement feats for the prestige classes and power attack/power lunge, boots of speed, his Templar specialization with a lance, a +5 lance, and stacked armor of the rhino of any kind.

And a Drd 13/Hie 1 with craft arms/armor and magical artisan feats that provided +4 armor and shield for both the paladin and himself, empower spell, extend spell that he will use to put an extended spikes spell on the paladins lance often times, and a former animal companion, now adventuring awakened cohort dire bear that may or may not have advanced in HD according to the DM's taste in keeping companions/trading up.

Round 1,

Paladin and Druid delay for the Wizard should they beat his init. Wizard casts Mass Haste affecting himself, the paladin, the paladin’s mount, the druid, and the dire bear. With his extra partial action he casts polymorph other on the paladin who does not choose to resist as he is familiar with this strategy.

The paladin becomes a size large fire giant who now fits much better into the saddle of his huge bulette (really an intelligent paladin mount heavy war horse whom they both have agreed stands a better chance surviving and dispenses more justice polymorphed into this form--and the earring of sustenance they bought him for when he is in this form controls his insatiable appetite). And thankfully, the paladin's armor and lance adjust to his new size.

The druid now comes out of delay and uses his ranged touch hierophant ability to cast a 7th level spell he prepared on the paladin. Empowered Maximized Bull's Strength for a +7 enhancement bonus to strength. This is a smackdown, so I'm not going to make him roll normally to determine the empowered effect but if you like we can just assume he rolled a 4 this one time. The paladin's current strength is 38. With his extra partial action, the druid casts animal growth on his dire bear companion, doubling his HD to 24 or 26 HD depending on the aforementioned stipulation.

The dire bear, now size huge and feeling very beefy with his new stats, size, AC, grapple modifications, and improved base attack, does not charge into the fray because he is awakened and is also very aware of his role in this combat. He delays. If any thing should approach either of the two spell casters his extended reach and improved grab ability combined with his INSANE grapple bonus at this point will allow him to effective defend the casters from one, maybe two of the demons.

Also, if one of the demons should advance, it will only get one attack, where as the bear will have its full attack sequence against a most likely grappled and soon to be pinned opponent.

And now the paladin does the paladin smackdown with divine might, one of his smite evils, one of his deadly charges of the day, and all the other fun stuff on his great lance that the druid cast an extended spikes spell on with all the other things in the paladin smack doing some ungodly amount of damage with a +28 str damage from power lunge, +11 from smite evil, +15 from power attack, +2 specialization, +5 enhancement, +3-+4 depending on money for cloaks of charisma from divine might, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something, for 5d8+325 damage (if he hits, which with a -15 penalty from the full power attack means he hits on a... 3 or better! Nevermind.) which evaporates one of the demons whom he rides by as per the feat using his burst of speed ability to urge his mount even further past the demons where upon they turn and use their extra partial actions to partial charge another demon using another divine might, ---oh yeah, remembered what I forgot, the damage and increased crit range of the spikes spell, am I still forgetting something else? oh well, I don't feel like going back and doing the math so keep in mind it's even more damage than listed above-- deadly charge, and smite evil to do the same damage to another demon.

Glabrezu's run away. But that wouldn't be fun so the obviously feebleminded glabrezu's move to engage. Either the paladin so he can't keep charging like that or the casters defended by the size huge 24-26 HD dire bear because we all know casters are more deadly than fighters.

One of the towering 15ft tall glabrezu's with his always on True Seeing finds the human paladin and normal warhorse super imposed on the fire giant/bulette humorous and tries to dispel them as he has dispel magic at will and he doesn't want to take 400 points of damage. Unfortunately he is making a +10 dispel check against a DC of 29 meaning he needs 19 or better on his d20. Let's assume he fails so we can continue the fun.

The other one teleports without error behind the transmuter outside of the bear's threatened area so he can show the wizard what 15 feet of four armed demon goodness can do to a wizard in melee.

Round 2,

The wizard tumbles out of the glabrezu's reach and springs the second part of his genius on the demon. A twinned cone of cold enlarged for free for 30d6 damage that he resists 20 points of making him take only around 70-80 points of cold damage. The wizard could have disintegrated him at DC 33 or so requiring a nat 20 or die instantly, but that would have been too easy and left him with no one to stand terrified of what he does with his extra partial action.

With his extra partial action he polymorphs the huge 24-26 hd dire bear into an adult or mature adult gold dragon. (Disclaimer: PO is a 4th level spell and thus has a 15 die cap to it. See subsequent post for other options.)

The druid rather than cast ranged harm then flame strike to destroy the shivering glabrezu uses his extra partial action to cast greater magic fang on his friend the dragon and then begins casting summon huge air elemental as if this battle isn't already over.

The dragon five foot steps over to the glabrezu and with his now even more enhanced reach proceeds to do a full round attack on him that leaves him a quivering pile of finely sliced goo.

The paladin's mount uses its extra partial action to move its normal speed away from the glabrezu that tried to dispel them. It stamps its foot, and we fade out with the paladin lowering his lance as he closes upon the last remaining demon, the druid is deep in his summoning magicks, and the mage is toying with the idea of summoning more demons just so the bad guys might stand a chance.

End.

Jeremy


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Druidic Smackdown*
Originally posted by Jeremy

Another one for the archives...

Druidic Smackdown

Let's see if I can crack the minimum 200 points of damage in a round requirement for smackdown admittance...

We'll start with our usual 16th level character, a human druid 15/heirophant 1. Our druid is out scouting as an innocuous tiny owl when he spots a 4 gargantuan purple worms, driven from their feeding grounds apparently and utterly destroying the delicate Balance of life in the area.

Landing concealed by the thick foliage of a tree, the druid assumes his own natural form and begins casting Call Lightning while keeping an eye on the worms.

Soon after he finishes his casting and begins casting his most powerful summoning spell (Summon Nature's Ally VIII) opting for more less-powerful creatures as opposed to one powerful creature. (He summons 1d4+1 dire bears and ends up getting a 3 for 4 total dire bears.)

The bears immediately begin heading towards the nearest threat, the purple worms. Before they can close the distance, the druid again begins casting, this time Animal Growth. The four bears all double in size becoming 40 feet long and 48,000 lbs of roaring muscle.

Animal Growth'd Dire Bear

HD: 24d8+72 (180 hp)
AC: 19 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +10 Natural)
Attacks: 2 claws +30 melee (2d6+14), bite +25 melee (2d10+7)
SA: Improved Grab
SQ: Scent
Saves: Fort +22, Ref +17, Will +17
Abilities: Str 39, Dex 13, Con 23, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10

But just to make sure, and not without a smirk of irony, the druid tree strides from his perch to a tree in between the bears and the worms. As they pass, of all things, he casts Bear's Heart--granting them 37 temporary hit points and 4 strength each.

From that point on, he can become an owl again and rain down 10' radius 10d10 bolts of lightning from 1000' away for the next two hours or so.. But with each of his summoned bears doing 65 damage a round for a total of 260 (Yay! Broke 200!) each round.. His 10d10 lightning bolts and 15d6 Flame Strikes are unnecessary.

Layeth the Smack Down!

Jeremy


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*The Energizer Bunny*
Originally posted by Jeremy

Psychic Warrior Strat

16th Lvl Human Psychic Warrior

16 hr duration powers in effect in order--

Polymorph Self: Fire Giant
Shield of Prudence: +6 insight bonus to AC
Ectoplasmic Armor: +10 armor bonus to AC
Claws of the Vampire: Heal damage equivalent to damage dealt
Improved Biofeedback: Take (2x STR mod) of damage done to you as subdual damage
Animal Affinity: Further boost new form's natural STR and CON by 1d4+1 each (2 manifestations)

3 hour duration powers to have up at all times in known dangerous places--

Inertial Barrier: Damage Reduction 10/+5

Magical/Psionic Pertinent Equipment

Belt of Giant Strength +6 (put on after polymorphing and after animal affinity [As clarified by the Sage, animal affinity is not an Enhancement bonus so it stacks])
Boots of Speed (for extra attacks and the ability to close the distance and still full attack)
Cloak of Displacement (Useful, see below)
Vest of Resistance +5 (To help you avoid getting charmed and start smashing your allies)

And a lot of other stuff you can pick and choose at with the money left over.

Feats: 

Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grapple (Optional, OA): Allows you to hit an opponent, cause damage, then initiate a grapple as a free action provoking no AofO
Earth's Embrace (Optional, OA): Should you successfully pin your opponent while grappling, you can cause critical unarmed damage automatically (however, you must hold yourself immobile as well to do this)
Power Attack, Expertise, Improved Trip
Knockdown: Every time you cause 10 points of damage (so every time you cause damage in this instance), you force an opposed strength check or your opponent is knocked prone, giving you a +4 on subsequent attacks and requiring him to stand up next round.

And there are many more feats such as the psionic fist/unavoidable strike chain in the Psionics Handbook that allows a normal attack to be resolved as if it were a touch attack by spending 5 power points per attack. I'll get to why that is good in a second.

So this character with around 40 STR (Fire Giant Strength + 1d4+1 animal affinity + 6 belt) for most of the day ((possibly up to 47 if he rolls max and takes a moment to use Expansion [which grows him to 100% bigger, 8x heavier, and +5 enlargement bonus to strength], and lets not start on fortified [result times 1.25 like empower, metapsionic] or overpowered [result times 2 like double empower, metapsionic] animal affinities)), has a couple of things going for him. First off, he's got 32 AC [fire giant natural, -size, -dex, +psionic powers in effect listed above that have hr/lvl durations]--and no matter what AC you hit you've got a 50% chance you missed anyways because of the cloak. Second he's got Damage Reduction 10/+5 [from inertial barrier], so figure most of the time he'll be taking 10 damage off every blow that does land on him. After that, 30-36 more points will be subdual damage due to his biofeedback [twice his strength modification of +15 to +18 due to improved biofeedback]. So a lot of damage to him is going to be superficial at best even if it does hit him. And then the kicker, with those claws healing him as he attacks he heals normal damage and subdual damage with every attack. Add to that his grapple modification of +31 to +34 and you've got one serious unarmed fighter... Grab someone, pin them, and tear them into little pieces with your vampiric claws. Mages hate you, Fighters can't use their big weapons, etc.

With improved grapple that part is even easier, and with auto-crits in earth's embrace that's deadly. Additionally you can take the unavoidable blow chain to make your attacks work as touch attacks and negate armor bonuses and natural armor and power attack your entire base attack into your blows. And your opposed strength checks every time you do 10 points (snicker) or more of damage to use the Knockdown feat are going to be pretty much unmatched by anything short of a Titan. So tack on another +4 to your attacks that you can use for power attack.

And all the while you are regenerating at the tremendous rate you are doing damage, this alone might keep you going until Elminster moves to DarkSun, but to make matters worse, you have uncharted damage reduction abilities. Truly a juggernaut.

Hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I did writing it. Cheers!

Jeremy
Secretary of Smack
(and closet contributor)


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Paladin Shield Smack*
Originally posted by reapersaurus

Here's a breakdown of a revised version of the Paladin Shield Smack:

Human Paladin 10

Feats: Power Attack, Divine Might(DotF), Improved Shield Bash(DotF), Shield Charge(DotF), Power Lunge (S&F)

Magic Items:

Rhino Hide Armor (5,165), Belt of Giant Str (+4) (16,000), +1 Shield of Bashing & Command (+4 effective) (16,000), Boots of Striding and Springing (2,500), Cloak of Charisma (+2) (4,000) = 43,000 and change.

Explanations and damage:

After 4th and 8th level powerups, Str is 20.
With Belt of Giant Strength, Str is 24 (+7 bonus to damage)
With Cloak of Charisma +2, and Shield of Command (DotF, grants +4 "competence bonus" to Charisma), Charisma is 24.
+1 Shield of Bashing (large, wooden) is a 1d8 weapon, +2 total damage when charging. (DMG, page 181)

I could argue that if you put shield spikes (PHB, pg 106) on this shield, it would be a 1d10 weapon, but then there might be criticism when your 10th level Cleric friend casts Spikes (DotF) on it (+2 to hit, +10 to damage, lasts 10 hours).

Damage is:

1d8 + 10 (Power Attack) + 7 (Divine Might, lasts 7 rounds) + 10 (Spikes) + 2 (enhancement bonus from shield) + <7 Str bonus X 2.5 (power lunged, 2-handed) = 17>

This is 1d8 + 46.

Multipliers:

Rhino Hide armor (x 2)
Shield Bash (x 2, that's x3 total)

So that's 3d8 + 138, or 152 average damage.

Does that win?  

Oh - if the Pally smites, of course, that's 182 damage in one attack, and he'll keep doing the 152 for 6 more rounds. 

He can do that routine 10 times per day (not including smite).

And after he works up a lather, this paladin is hopping on his Half Celestial/Half-Unicorn (flying) 8 HD (100 H.P.), AC 26 mount.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Kord Incarnate*
Originally posted by reapersaurus

Use the Mighty Contender of Kord PrC from Dragon 283 (Brb1/Cleric6/Mighty Contender 10)

24 STR half-orc
+8 Half-Dragon template (at cost of 3 levels)
+4 while raged
+4 Rage spell (DotF)
+2 Mighty Contender level ups
+4 level ups each 4 levels
+4 Righteous Might
+4 Two Arms of Nyr
+5 Manual of Gainful Exercise
+24 from the Surge of Power 10th level Contender ability: grant an enhancement bonus to STR equal to 1.5 times your combined cleric and contender levels for 1d4+1 rounds

= 83 STR (for 1d4+1 rounds)

edit: Also, Jeremy, when you repost, I have an update to the Kord Incarnate Strength Smack. 
(someday I'll think of a Smackdown that actually USES all that Strength)

I don't know why I started with a 24 STR half-orc? 
So it starts with a 22 STR orc. 
Change the template from Half-Dragon to Werebear (increasing the ECL by 1 and STR from 8 to 16) 
Add Greater aspect of the Diety (+4) 
Change 1 level of cleric for 1 level of Frenzied Berserker (+6) 
Add Mantle of Egregious Might (from Book of Eldritch Might, +4 luck bonus to STR) 
Swap Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 for Primal Release, a +10 inherent bonus (also from BoEM) 

So.... 
Use the Mighty Contender of Kord PrC from Dragon 283 (Brb1/Cleric4/Mighty Contender 10/Frenzied Berserker1) 
22 STR orc 
+16 Werebear template (at cost of 4 levels) 
+4 while raged 
+4 Rage spell (DotF) 
+6 when frenzied 
+2 Mighty Contender level ups 
+4 level ups each 4 levels 
+4 Righteous Might 
+4 Two Arms of Nyr 
+4 Greater Aspect of the Deity 
+4 luck from Mantle of Egregious Might 
+10 inherent from Primal Release 
+21 from the Surge of Power 10th level Contender ability: grant an enhancement bonus to STR equal to 1.5 times your combined cleric and contender levels for 1d4+1 rounds 
= *105 STR* (for 1d4+1 rounds) 

_<editors note: +47 to hit/+70 to damage with a two handed weapon or +94 to damage with a power lunge that can be modified with spirited charges, power attacks, smites (the spell, not the ability), rhino hide, etc for very godly damage.

Actually, I think he’d knock Kord’s Avatar for a loop.  If it weren’t for that pesky “I’m a god” ability Kord’s got, you’d knock him too.  _


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Shuriken Smackdown*
Originally posted by reapersaurus

Classes: Fighter 9/Divine Champion 5/Tribal Protector 2

Attributes: Anything, just an 18 CHA, increased to 20 by the mythical +2 CHA +0 ECL race

Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw, Exotic WP: Shuriken, Weapon Focus: Shuriken, Weapon Spec: Shuriken, Power Attack, Divine Might 

Magic Items: 
+1 Chain Shirt of Command (DotF, +4 competence bonus to CHA), 9k
Boots of Speed 8k gp
Bracers of Throwing (same as Bracers of Archery, except for thrown items : +1 competence bonus to damage), 5k gp 
21 +1 Returning, Flaming Shurikens (18k a piece)

Damage:
Shuriken: 1 point, can throw 3 in a attack (at same target).
Point-Blank Shot (+1)
Weapon Spec (+2)
Divine Favor spell (+6 luck) 1 minute duration
Divine Wrath (Divine Champion level 5 ability, +3 attack and damage) 
Emotion spell (+2 morale)
Bracers of Throwing (+1 competence) 
Divine Might (+ CHA bonus to damage: 18 base CHA + 2 race bonus + 2 from aging + 4 levelups, + 5 inherent from Tome of Charisma + 4 from Charm domain ability (1 min), + 4 from Command armor, + 4 from Greater Aspect of the Deity, + 15 average from Incantrix Septuple-Empowered Eagle’s Splendor = 58 CHA  = +24 bonus to damage)
 + 1d6 flaming damage on each shuriken = 3.5 avg

= 43.5 damage per shuriken (weapon spec and point blank only good for one shuriken per attack) 
so 40.5 damage for 2nd and 3rd shuriken in volley

# of attacks: 
4 from BAB @ 16th  level of +16/+11/+6/+1
1 from Rapid Shot
1 from Boots of Speed 
1 from 2nd level Tribal Protector
= 7 attacks 
Totals:
43.5 damage (1st attack in volley) + 40.5 damage for the other 2 shurikens in the volley = 124.5 damage each attack 
124.5 damage per attack x 7 attacks = 871 damage per round. 
There are 21 shurikens thrown, BTW... 
Coat those 21 puppies in Sassone leaf residue (DMG page 80) and do 2d12 hp initial damage and 1d6 CON secondary damage PER SHURIKEN. (DC 16)
So….. (13 (2d12) x 3 shuriken) x 7 attacks = 273 hp damage from poison.

Grand total : 871 normal damage, 273 poison damage = 1147 damage per round!

That’s not including any extra damage from criticals, BTW.

This damage could also be increased by adding multiple arms for the character. A way I remember someone doing that was by polymorphing into a 4-armed Sahaugin mutant? (Damage=1467!)

Ways of stopping accidental poisoning? Resist Poison feat (+4 to saves), the Greater Aspect of the Deity grants +4 to saves. He already has +13 Fort save from classes not including CON bonuses.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Fleet Runner of Ehlonna Smackdown*
Originally posted by Black Arrow

[subcaption - "Blessed of Gruumsh meets his match"; AKA "Where's Tiamat" smackdown]

In honor of Carpe DM's inspiring smackdown series, here's my humble contribution, based on variants of the paladin smackdown... Suggestions are welcome. Seems more like the psychic warrior massacre series than a traditional 200 point smackdown though....

For flair, this character can combine both the mounted paladin-ish smackdown (i.e. using heavy lance) with the dungeon crawling shield bashing paladin-ish smackdown. Haste is assumed (and is a free action class skill as a 9th lvl fleet runner of ehlonna). Needed: a mount with modified boots (err, horseshoes?) of speed for haste (or mass haste cast by mage; character could probably also be polymorphed into a centaur to get the 'mounted charge' ability solo if desired...). 

[A parallel smackdown would involve a warrior-type who focuses on bashing with two shields as weapons [no mount required] - replace hospitaler with cleric; perhaps slip in two levels of psychic warrior for extra feats. ;-) One could also go the route of a wood elf 1st ranger/9th cleric/10th fleet runner if desired for additional archery and self-reliant clerical prowess...(with Elf & War domains for Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus(Long Composite Bow), True Strike, Cat's Grace).]

Human 1st ranger/2nd fighter/2nd barbarian/3rd hospitaler[DOTF]/8th fleet runner of Ehlonna (Dragon #283)

Feats Needed:

Mounted Combat (1 - human)
Ride-by Attack (1 - free)
Spirited Charge (2 - fighter)
Power Attack (3 - fighter)
Dodge (3 - free)
Run (6 - free)
Mobility (8 - hospitaler)
Improved Shield Bash (9 - free)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting (12 - free)
Shield Charge (15 - free)
Power Lunge (18 - free)
Divine Might (18 - hospitaler)]

Str 18 (+4 stat increase +4 girdle = 26), Cha 18 (+4 cloak +4 shield = 26)

Items (could be more powerful...):

Shield of Command (+4 Ch) & Bashing w/SPIKES cast by 10th lvl cleric
Rhino hide armor 
heavy lance
Paladin holy sword scroll (readable with hospitaler Glory domain) or Vibrant purple ioun stone with holy sword
girdle of giant strength (+4 St)
cloak of charisma (+4 Ch)

Tactic:

Let's bring the character to 18th level by adding 2 more levels of hospitaler, for two more feats and a BAB of +16. In one round, charge [as a partial action] and charge for the regular action (pushing opponent back 5' away from you with the improved shield bash at the end of the first charge action, combined with a free hasted 5' step backward to prepare to charge the opponent again, if there's anything left;-). Get twelve *charge* attacks while you're at it. Repeatable every round. This is based on the 8th level Fleet runner's Leopard's pounce, namely, "at 8th level, a fleet runner can make a full attack at the end of a charge. This is an extraordinary ability." So at the end of the hasted charge action, the character smacks with 4 lance attacks and 2 SPIKED shield attacks. REPEAT. Since the full attack takes place during a charge action, the resultant attacks gain the myriad of charge bonuses/multipliers, namely:

(best case) holy sworded lance: Dmg: 1d8 +16(pwr atk) +<8(St)*2(pwr lunge) = 16> +8(Ch - divine might) +5(enhancement bonus) = (1d8 + 45) *5 (holy sworded*2(v.evil), rhino effect*2, spirited charge*3), or 5d8+225 = 247 damage (avg). [*3 critical could bring this to 346 damage.]

shield of bashing: Dmg: 1d8 +16(pwr atk) +<8(St)*2(pwr lunge) = 16> +8(Ch - divine might) +10(SPIKES spell by 10th lvl cleric) +1(enhancement bonus) = (1d8 + 51) *3 (rhino effect and shield charge), or 3d8+153 = 166 damage (avg). [plus possible *2 critical bringing it to 221 damage (avg)].

Total avg dmg/round assuming 8 lance hits and 4 shield hits..... a whopping 2640 points of damage!!!!! Enough to take Tiamat out to lunch after she wastes an AoO on the blind kobold you send in first;-) 

I forgot to include the barbarian rage bonuses among other things. Actually, by replacing the 2 levels of barbarian with 2 levels of psychic warrior, I could add the psionic weapon and deep impact feats. Coupled with a ton of 5pt crystal capacitators, every attack could be a touch attach (the 'perfect' great wyrm-slaughter tactic), which would almost guarantee hitting anything and being able to take the full power attack bonus.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Iaijutsu Smackdown*
Originally posted by Black Arrow

After a much enjoyed break, I decided it was high time to get back to business of Smackdown Productions...here's another product inspired by the vision of Smackdown's gifted acting CEO, Carpe DM; much appreciated secretary of smack, Jeremy; and the rest of the talented staff...

I picked up a copy of Oriental Adventures recently; found food for thought for a novel smackdown twist, incorporating the Singh Rager's 'pounce' (think 'Fleetrunner of Ehlonna') with the iaijutsu focus skill. With iaijutsu, speed is everything; there is no time to drink a potion, activate a magic item, etc...opponents MUST be flat-footed.

So without further ado...

Human 1st ranger/6th fighter/4th singh rager/5th iaijutsu master

Suggested/Required Feats:

Power Attack-Iaijutsu (bonus ancestral feat)
Quickdraw (1st)
Improved Initiative (1st fighter)
Weapon Focus(katana) (2nd fighter)
Iron Will(3rd)
Weapon Specialization(katana) (4th fighter)
Ki Shout (6th)
Exotic Weapon(katana) (6th fighter)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting (9th)
Expert Tactician (12th)
Skill Focus(Iaijutsu Focus) (4th iaijutsu master)
Improved Critical(katana) (15th)

Let's say the character started at first level with a great Dexterity (16), top Charisma (18), and good Strength (14). Increased Charisma to 22 at levels 4, 8, 12, & 16. Character's initiative bonus here is +13 - likely to outgun pretty much anyone.

Also has an adamantine katana (+2 non-magical enhancement bonus) and adamantine wakizashi (+1 non-magical enhancement bonus)...perhaps a bandoleer with a dozen masterwork daggers as well...

Also assume the character has 19 ranks of the Iaijutsu Focus skill (+27) and 19 ranks Tumbling (+22).

Tactic: During surprise round (if available) partial charge flat-footed opponents while initiating "Lion's fury" (think lawful Barbarian rage). Character whips out katana with both hands, flies into a rage, charge attacks with the katana, quickdraws a wakizashi (or possibly daggers), and finishes attacking with both weapons. Here are the stats for a "Lion's Pounce" charge. 

BAB: +21/+21(expert tact)/+20(offhand)/+16/+15(offhand)/+11/+6

Dmg:  5*[(d10(katana)+4(Str)+2(enhancement)+2(specializa
tion)+6d6+36(iaijutsu 37.5 avg skill check)+1d6+6(Power Attack-Iaijutsu)] + 2*[(d6(wakizashi)+2(half Str)+1(enhancement)+7d6+42(combined avg iaijutsu bonus)]

TOTAL = 5* (80=avg katana dmg) + 2* (73=avg wakizashi dmg) +2(half Str bonus for first two-handed atk with katana) = 548 dmg(avg) possible per charge attack action, assuming each attack hits.

*Note: this does not factor in probable additional dmg from critical hits (on a 17-20 w/katana, a 19-20 w/wakizashi).

After surprise round, assuming initiative(+13) is won, take a full-round attack option to mop up anything left in the vicinity, or use tumble(+22) to plow through (if necessary) and charge another group of opponents to repeat devastating attack (1,096 total dmg(avg) possible including previous surprise round, before opponents can blink).

Also note that average katana dmg and wakizashi dmg drops to 13.5pts/hit and 6.5pts/hit respectively after round 1, so make the first hits count!

In review, the iaijutsu focus skill operates "if you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon"(OA p.58). The combat section further clarifies what is meant by "immediately" - "You can use your iaijutsu focus bonus damage in normal combat too, but only when you attack a flat-footed opponent and you draw your weapon in the same round you strike"(OA p.82). So in summary, any attack made by a weapon in the round you drew it receives the bonus damage against a flat-footed opponent.

Best thing about singh rager and iaijutsu master is that none of their abilities are denoted "(Su)" or "(Sp)". This character would make a great champion of a prince or emperor...especially if confined to an anti-magic field or dead magic zone. Better yet, this smackdown is fully effective against monsters that are immune to sneak attacks and critical hits. 

If you wanted to make this attack routine even more lethal, give this king's champion a +4 inherent bonus to Charisma (from multiple miracle or wish spells). A 26 Cha would provide the champion with a +15 initiative and +29 Iaijutsu Focus skill - this would increase average damage of the above smackdown by +14 dmg per hit, and half the time (on average) would add another 1d6+8 per successful hit due to an additional iaijutsu focus dice; if all fourteen hits were successful the additional damage would be [((+14)*14(atks)) + (11.5(avg dmg)*7(atks))] = 224 additional dmg(avg) [or 1320 avg dmg possible] over two charge actions. 

Also note that if you give the king's bodyguard 3 additional levels of singh rager (bringing him to 19th lvl), in addition to another feat, he gains the ability to cause fear as a free action during a full attack action with 'roaring strike', and the ability to initiate haste ('swiftness of the lioness') as a free action (= one extra partial charge during surprise round and one extra partial charge during the regular round against flatfooted opponents, or double the effective number of iaijutsu attacks [2640 avg dmg possible here].

So next time the characters try to thwart the DM's sinister plot by sneaking in and killing the evil tyrant (in his magic-proof chamber), let the king's LE champion ambush (surprise action) the party, slicing through a rice paper screen near the king's throne, charge, and double 'pounce' the unsuspecting players...after rolling up new characters they'll think twice before blatantly trying to destroy a well-prepared storyline/plot by attacking the archenemy in his stronghold


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Fighter Mage Smackdown*
Originally posted by Iku Rex

Note: Only DMG, PHB, MM
Human Barbarian 1/Transmuter 7/Lore 7

Base stats: Str 13, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 20 (+3), Cha 8 

Feats (Human +1, Levels +6, Wizard Bonus +1, Loremaster +1 = 9 Feats) : Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Still Spell, Quicken Spell, Dodge, Weapon Focus: Scythe, Improved Critical: Scythe, Skill Focus (Knowledge: Something), Power Attack 

Equipment:

Ring of protection +3 18000
Mithral Plate +5 35500
Large Animated Shield +3 25170
+1 keen, Frost, Shock, Flaming Scythe 50318
Manual og Gainful Exercise +2 55000

Total: *183988*

Running Spells: 

Permanent Polymorph Other, Fire Giant
Extended, 2x Empowered Bull's Strength: Avg. +7 Str, 28 hours
Extended, 2x Empowered Cat's Grace: Avg. +7 Dex, 28 Hours
Extended Greater Magic Weapon (+4), 28 Hours

1st Round:

- Contingency: Haste (Instantaneous)
("If I think I am about to be attacked", or something like that...)
- Quickened, Stilled Enlarge (Free Action)
- Stilled Tenser's Transformation (Partial Action) (From Haste, before regular action)
- Rage
- Full attack 

Then Full attack + attack

Base AC 10
Size -1
Natural armor +8
Dexterity +3
Haste +4
Dodge +1
Dodge Trick (Loremaster) +1
Ring of Protection +3 +3
Mithral Plate +5 +13
Large Animated Shield +3 +5
Rage -2

Total AC: 45

I am only hit if he rolls a 20, so total average damage = (50/20)*2*7 = 35 

Attack bonus (BAB 15/10/5):
Fire Giant Strength 31 +10
Bull's Strength +7 (Str 38) +4
Enlarge (Str 40) +1
+2 Inherent Bonus (Str 42) +1
Rage (Str 46) +2
Greater Magic Weapon +4 +4
Weapon Focus +1
Weapon Trick (Loremaster) +1
Power Attack 6 -6
Total: +18

AB: +33/+28/+23

Damage: 

Huge Scythe (2d6, avg. 7) 7
Strength bonus 18
2-H Weapon 9
Greater Magic Weapon 4
Flaming, Frost, Shock (3d6, avg. 10,5) 10.5
Power Attack 6
Critical 18-20/4x: 3*44 * 3/20 19.8
Average Damage: 74.3

20 (2+6+[2*6]) attacks only miss on a 1:

20 * 74.3 * 1/20 1411.7

7 attacks hit on 7-20:

7 * 74.3 * 14/20 364.07

Average total damage: 1775

Score: 1775 -70 = 1705

I didn't include Improved Invisibility or Blink, since that would require unreasonable assumptions about the opponent.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Warrior Priest Smackdown*
Originally posted by jeffhartsell

I'll cheat and post one with spells that only last 15 hours. However, this is quite the munchkin considering the 15 hours is plenty long to clear out a dungeon. Assuming no elemental defenses, I'll also assume I'm fighting evil.

Human Cleric14/Contemplative1

Domains: Glory, Good, War

Stats: Str 13+1 (book), Dex 13, Con 11, Int 11 Wis 16+3 (levels), Cha 14

Equipment

+1 keen holy/shock/flaming scythe 72318
+5 mithral plate 35500
Large Animated Shield +5 49170
Manual of gainful exercise +1 27500
Boots of Speed 8000

= 192488

Feats:

empower spell, improved crit, weapon focus, quicken, dodge, power attack, martial(scythe)

Spells: 

Polymorphed into Fire Giant (permanent)
3x empowered bull's strength 15th CL (15 hours) (7th)
Greater Magic weapon 15th CL (15 hours) (3rd)

Attack:

Str 31 +8 (bull) +1 (book) = 40 +15
BAB +15 (divine power 15th CL) (7th)
+5 luck (quickened divine favor 15th CL) (5th)
+5 (greater magic weapon-15th CL) (3th)
+1 focus
-3 power attack

= +38

Damage:

Huge Scythe 2d6 +7
Str + 2-handed +15+7= +22
Magic +10 (GMW & DF)
+3 power attack
+14 (4d6 holy/flame/shock)
+18.9 (critical)

=74.9

Holy Sword (double damage against evil)
4d6 +14
+44
+20
+6
+0 (no other magical effects)
+36.9
=120.9

Base AC 10
Size -1
Natural armor +8 (polymorph)
Dexterity -1
Haste +4 (boots)
dodge +1
Mithral Plate +5 +13
Large Animated Shield +5 +7
+4 deflection (holy aura)

Total AC: 45

Round 1:
Quickened Divine Power (8th)
Haste
Holy Aura (8th)

Round 2:
Quickened Divine Favor (5th)
Partial Attack/Full Attack
Round 3:
Partial Holy Sword (5th)/Full Attack

Rounds 4-7
Partial Attack/Full Attack

23 attacks only miss on a 1:

Round 2: 4 * 74.9 * .95 = 284.62 

Rounds 3-7 : 19 * 120.9 * .95 = 2182.245 (holy sword)

Average total damage: 2466.865

Score = 2466.865 - 7(100)*.05 = 2431.865


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*A Nearly Irresistible Wizard*
Originally posted by Caliban

a wizard who's spells are actually difficult to resist, with 1st level spells having a save DC of 35 by the time your 20th level. It's all legal, but you have to be using the Forgotten Realms Guidelines: 

-Take a Sun Elf from the Forgotten Realms (Stat mods: +2 Int, -2 Con) 

-Put an 18 in Intelligence. (If using 32 point ability buy, you can put your stats at: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 10) 

-Make him a Wizard, and take Spellcasting Prodigy as his first level feat. Spellcasting prodigy gives you an effective +2 to your spellcasting attribute. This affects bonus spells, Saving Throw DC's. 

-At first level your Wizard has an effective 22 Int, +6 to all his Saving Throw DC's (DC 17 for a 1st level spell!), and 2 bonus 1st level spells. 

-If he's a general wizard, he can cast 3 first level spells, if he's a specialist he can cast 4 first level spells per day. 

-At 3rd level you gain your 2nd level spell, and you can cast 3 a day (22 Int = 2 bonus 2nd level spells) if you are a regular wizard, 4 if you are a specialist. 

-You gain a feat at 3rd level, take Spell Focus on your primary school Ill, or Enchantment are popular choices). You now have a +8 on Save DC's for spells of that school. (DC 19 for 1st level spells, DC 20 for 2nd level spells) 

-At 4th level, increase your Int to 21 (23 effective) 

-At 6th level you gain another feat, take Greater Spell Focus. Now spells of that school have a +10 to save DC's. (DC 21 for 1st level spells, DC 22 for 2nd, DC 23 for 3rd) 

-At 8th level, increase your Int to 22 (24 effective.) This increases you DC bonus by +1, giving you a +11 to save DC's for your chosen school of magic, and a +7 to spells of other schools. 

-9th level, you gain another feat, take Spell focus for another school of magic (you need this to qualify for the Archmage Prestige class). 

-This gives you +11 to save DC's for your primary school, +9 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +7 to save DC's for spells of any other school. 

-12th level. Increase your Int again, giving you a 23 (25 effective). You also gain a feat, take Skill Focus (Spellcraft) so that you now meet the feat requirements for the Archmage prestige class. 

-By this time you have also gained 2 bonus feats from your wizard class, make one of them the Craft Wondrous Items feat. At 12th level you can then craft a Headband of Intellect +6 (which will cost you about 36,000 gp and 1,440 XP). This will raise your Int to 29 (31 effective), increasing your bonus spells and increasing your save DC modifier by 3. 

This gives you +14 to save DC's for your primary school, +12 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +10 to save DC's for spells of any other school. 

-At 13th level you gain your 7th level spells, and should qualify for the Archmage Prestige class (found in the Forgotten Realms guidelines). 

-At 14th level take your first level of Archmage, making a 13 wizard/1 archmage. Take Spell Power +1 as your first High Arcana ability. This costs you a 5th level spell, and increases the save DC's of all your spells by +1, and gives you +1 on caster level checks to bypass Spell Resistance. 

This gives you +15 to save DC's for your primary school, +13 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +11 to save DC's for spells of any other school. 

-At 15th level you gain another feat, take Spell Penetration, giving you +2 on caster level checks. Take another level of Archmage and gain another High Arcana. Take Spell Power +2, which will cost you a 7th level spell and give you +2 to Save DC's and caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance. 

This gives you +17 to save DC's for your primary school, +15 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +13 to save DC's for spells of any other school. You also have a +5 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. 

-At 16th level you can take either a level of Archmage or a level of Wizard, whichever your prefer. You also get to increase you Intelligence by one, giving you a base 24 Int, 30 with the Headband of Intellect, and effective 32 Int because of the spellcasting prodigy feat. 

This gives you +18 to save DC's for your primary school, +16 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +14 to save DC's for spells of any other school. You also have a +5 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. 

-At level 17 you gain your 9th level spells. Take another level of Archmage and select Spell Power +3 as your High Arcana ability. This costs you a 9th level spell slot, but you got a bonus 9th level spell when you Int reached 28. 

This gives you +21 to save DC's for your primary school, +19 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +17 to save DC's for spells of any other school. You also have a +8 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. 

-At level 18 you gain another feat, spend it on Greater Spell Penetration, which will give you a total of +10 on your caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. 

Assuming that you have the Wish spell at this point, use Scribe Scroll to create a Wish Scroll after you have gained 5,153 XP. Do this two more times, until you have 3 wish scrolls (if you can get Wishes from another source you may be able to skip this step.) 

Once you have the three wish scrolls, wait until you have gained 10,000 XP more than you need for 18th level again, then cast Wish 5 times in a row to increase your Int by +5, giving you giving you a base 29 Int, 35 with the Headband of Intellect, and an effective 37 Int because of the spellcasting prodigy feat. 

This gives you +23 to save DC's for your primary school, +21 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +19 to save DC's for spells of any other school. You also have a +10 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. 

At level 20 you can increase your Int one more time, giving you an effect Int of 38. 

This gives you +24 to save DC's for your primary school, +22 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +20 to save DC's for spells of any other school. You also have a +10 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. 

You first level spells in your primary school have a save DC of 35, and your 9th level spells of that school have a save DC of 43. 

You also automatically bypass any Spell Resistance of 31 or less. (You rolled 1d20+30 for caster level checks to bypass spell resistance.) 

You also have an incredible number of bonus spells from your high intelligence.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Another Nearly Irresistible Wizard*
Originally posted by creepy

Okay spent a little time modifying the wizard posted by Caliban to represent the dark path taken by power hungry mages  Thanks to Caliban for the work he did on this!

I don't have any of my books with me so I could have easily made some mistakes. Just let me know and I can fix them.

Another nearly irresistible Wizard. 

Creepy

a wizard who's spells are actually difficult to resist, with 1st level spells having a save DC of 40 by the time your 20th level. It's all legal, but you have to be using the Forgotten Realms Guidelines: 

-Take a Human from the Forgotten Realms (Region: Thay)

-Put an 18 in Intelligence. (If using 32 point ability buy, you can put your stats at: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 10) 

-Make him a Specialist Wizard(Illusion, Necromancy or Enchantment), and take Spellcasting Prodigy as his first level feat. Spellcasting prodigy gives you an effective +2 to your spellcasting attribute. This affects bonus spells, Saving Throw DC's. 

-As your bonus feat for being a human take Tattoo focus(Gives you an effective +1 to the DC and caster level of spells cast from your specialty school.)

-At first level your Wizard has an effective 20 Int, +5 to all his Saving Throw DC's, +1 for tattoo focus (DC 17 for a 1st level spell!), and 2 bonus 1st level spells. 

-He can cast 4 first level spells per day. 

-At 3rd level you gain your 2nd level spell, and you can cast 3 a day (22 Int = 2 bonus 2nd level spells) 

-At 3rd level take the Shadow Weave Magic Feat(+1 to the DC of all Enchantment, Illusion, and Necromancy Spells)You now have a +7 on Save DC’s for spells of your school.

-At 4th level, increase your Int to 19 (21 effective) 

-At 5th level you can choose any of the metamagic(don’t’ pick any shadowweave metamagic feats) or item creation feats

-At 6th level you can take a level of Shadow Adept and will gain 3 feats Tenacious Magic, Pernicious Magic, Insidious Magic

-You gain a feat at 6th level, take Spell Focus on your primary school. You now have a +9 on Save DC's for spells of that school. (DC 20 for 1st level spells, DC 21 for 2nd level spells) 

-At 7th level you can Take a level of Red Wizard of Thay(+1 to Spell DC)You now have a +10 on save DC’s for your school

-At 8th level, increase your Int to 20 (22 effective.) This increases you DC bonus by +1, giving you a +11 to save DC's for your chosen school of magic, and a +5 to spells of other schools. (+7 to spells of Enchantment, Necromancy or Illusion if they are not your primary) 

-At 9th level you gain another feat, take Spell Focus. Now spells of that school have a +12 to save DC's. (DC 23 for 1st level spells, DC 24 for 2nd, DC 25 for 3rd) 

-At 9th level you also gain another point of spell power for being a Red Wizard(+1 more to all DC’s from your school)You now have a +13 on save DC’s for your school

-At 11th level you gain another point of spell power for being a Red Wizard (+1 more to all DC’s from your school) You now have a +14 on save DC’s for your school.

-12th level, you gain another feat, take Spell focus for another school of magic (you need this to qualify for the Archmage Prestige class). I would suggest taking Illusion, Enchantment, or Necromancy depending on what you already have and what you have given up.

-This gives you +14 to save DC's for your primary school, +9 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +7 to save DC's for spells of Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment if you haven’t chosen them as your focus schools. You have a +5 for any other school. 

-12th level. Increase your Int again, giving you a 21 (23 effective). 

-By this time you have also gained 2 bonus feats from your wizard class, make one of them the Craft Wondrous Items feat. At 12th level you can then craft a Headband of Intellect +6 (which will cost you about 36,000 gp and 1,440 XP). This will raise your Int to 27 (29 effective), increasing your bonus spells and increasing your save DC modifier by 3. 

This gives you +17 to save DC's for your primary school, +12 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +10 to save DC's for spells of Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment if you haven’t chosen them as your focus schools. You have a +8 for any other school. 

-At 13th level you gain another point of spell power for being a Red Wizard (+1 more to all DC’s from your school) You now have a +18 on save DC’s for your school.

-At 15th you gain a feat, take Skill Focus (Spellcraft) so that you now meet the feat requirements for the Archmage prestige class. 

-At 16th level you gain another point of spell power for being a Red Wizard (+1 more to all DC’s from your school) You now have a +19 on save DC’s for your school.

-At 16th level Increase your Int again, giving you a 22 (24 effective).(With the headband 28 (30 effective))This adds one to all your DC’s giving you a +20 on save DC’s for your school

-At 17th level take your first level of Archmage, making a 5 specialist wizard/1 Shadow Adept/10 Red Wizard/1 archmage. Take Spell Power +1 as your first High Arcana ability. This costs you a 5th level spell, and increases the save DC's of all your spells by +1, and gives you +1 on caster level checks to bypass Spell Resistance. 

This gives you +21 to save DC's for your primary school, +14 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +12 to save DC's for spells of Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment if you haven’t chosen them as your focus schools. You have a +10 for any other school. 

-18th level you gain another feat, take Spell Penetration, giving you +2 on caster level checks. 

-18th level Take another level of Archmage and gain another High Arcana. Take Spell Power +2, which will cost you a 7th level spell and give you +2 to Save DC's and caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance. 

This gives you +23 to save DC's for your primary school, +16 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +14 to save DC's for spells of Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment if you haven’t chosen them as your focus schools. You have a +12 for any other school. 

-At level 19 Take another level of Archmage and select Spell Power +3 as your High Arcana ability. This costs you a 9th level spell slot, but you got a bonus 9th level spell when you Int reached 28. 

This gives you +26 to save DC's for your primary school, +19 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +17 to save DC's for spells of Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment if you haven’t chosen them as your focus schools. You have a +15 for any other school.

At 20th level Increase your Int again, giving you a 23 (25 effective).(With the headband 29 (31 effective))This adds one to all your DC’s giving you a +20 on save DC’s for your school

-Level 20 take a level of archmage or shadow adept, it’s your call 

Assuming that you have the Wish spell at this point, use Scribe Scroll to create a Wish Scroll after you have gained 5,153 XP. Do this two more times, until you have 3 wish scrolls (if you can get Wishes from another source you may be able to skip this step.) Once you have the three wish scrolls, wait until you have gained 10,000 XP more than you need for 20th level again, then cast Wish 5 times in a row to increase your Int by +5, giving you giving you a base 28 Int, 34 with the Headband of Intellect, and an effective 36 Int because of the spellcasting prodigy feat. 

This gives you +29 to save DC's for your primary school, +22 to save DC's of your secondary school, and +20 to save DC's for spells of Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment if you haven’t chosen them as your focus schools. You have a +18 for any other school. This translates to the following DC’s

1st 40
2nd 41
3rd 42
4th 43
5th 44
6th 45
7th 46
8th 47
9th 48


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Cast Ultima in D&D 3e –with a lot of planning*
Originally posted by Psifon

Here is a simple Arcane Smackdown that is easily achieved by a CL16 character:

Take the following base character: Wizard 13/Arcmage3
Base Int: 18, + 4 for stat level bonuses = Int: 22 
Feats: Craft Wonderous Item
Scribe Scroll (given)
Spell Focus: Evocation
Silent Spell

Skills: Max out Scry and Move Silently

Craft a Headband of intellect +6 (worn at all times)

With your archmage class take the Energy Substitution Arcane Lore (I forget the official name). This uses your 8th level slot, but this is won back with the headband above. Note, this ability is optional, but it adds style. 

Using Energy Substitution, make the following scrolls to keep handy at all times:

Silent Delayed Blast Fireball x2
Silent Delayed Blast Coldball x2
Silent Delayed Blast Ligtningball x2
Silent Delayed Blast Sonicball x2
Silent Delayed Blast Acidball x2

So here is the smackdown:

Surprise Round: Teleport Home

Spend 1-5 days observing the subject through a Greater Scrying spell to note his patterns, especially when he sleeps/rests. Once this is established, do the following

Cast contingency that “I teleport home the next time that I cast a Cone of Cold spell”

Greater Scrying in on the subject.

Cast Improved Invisibility, haste, fly, non-detection and any other defenses/buffs you want to pad yourself with.

Teleport in, flying, moving silently. If necessary, cast a silent advanced illusion to create cover for the beads that will soon be accumulating from the spells you are about to cast.

Round 1 cast two spells off the scroll, with a 5 round delay
Round 2 cast two spells off the scroll, with a 4 round delay
Round 3 cast two spells off the scroll, with a 3 round delay
Round 4 cast two spells off the scroll, with a 2 round delay
Round 5 cast two spells off the scroll, with a 1 round delay
Round 6 cast one more silent Delayed Blast Fireball and a silent Cone of Cold

Upon casting the Silent Cone of Cold, you automatically teleport home.

You then sit down in front of your scrying mirror, pour yourself a snifter of brandy, and survey the crater you have created by the 176d8 elemental ball damage and 15d6 of cone of cold damage, for a total of 844 points of damage on average before saving throws. 

Note that if the target is sleeping he gets a –5 dexterity bonus for being “helpless” and having an effective dex of 0

It is not necessary to take the levels of archmage, but it adds pizzazz to inflict the varying damage types.

This is not an unbeatable attack, it can be easily countered with a Mordenkainen’s Private Sanctum among other spells, but you have to admit, it rocks!

One may argue that this is not a “real” arcane smackdown, because it does not take place in the first 1-2 rounds of combat. I disagree. The real power of the wizard class is their ability to determine the time and conditions of a combat. THAT is what an arcane smackdown should be about, not just how gross a character you can create (although that’s fun too).

_Editor’s Note: This meets the qualifications for a smackdown, it exceeds 200 points of damage in a round (even if it entails a lot of preparation, all the damage takes place in one round), it is spectacular, it is entertaining to read, it is legal by the rules of the game, and it required great imagination, creativity, and investment of time to share with the community.

Therefore, it is indeed a smackdown.

--Forgive me if I have a somewhat glowing definition of this boards version of the word Smackdown. I think they are great fun._


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*The Endless Horde*
Originally posted by Aloïsius

These are not "200" damage smack, but, they are indeed fun.

The endless horde.

How many time have you fight the lich/demon/evil necromancer in the last room of this creepy dungeon ? How many time has this monster abused the fact that you were out of spell/hit point/charge ? Thanks to Magic Of Faerun, there is a way of having a vengeance. (using the traditional 16th spellcaster)

1)You need a wizard, or wizard-like PrC (Red Wizard, Shadow adept, Incantatrix...)
2)You need the 6th level spell Energy Transformation Field
3)You need Summon Monster 8
4)You need the attune gem feat

Attune your Gem with Energy Transformation Field, linked to Summon Monster 8 : 1d3 Celestial elephant. The triggering condition will be "when the Gem comes within 5 ft of the enemy". This one will loose all its spell ability, spell-like ability and supernatural ability, and most of its magic items will become useless. But the fun is that every attempt of using such capacity will instead summon 1d3 celestial elephant, who will likely charge, and smite the vile creature. Smite is a supernatural ability, and won't work, but will cause 1d3 new celestial elephant to be summoned the next round. The field is a 40 feet radius spread, so it will eventually fill the room. All you have to do is to cast from outside of the spread a spell like forcecage or wall of force, to be sure your enemy will not escape. Then watch your enemy trampled to death.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*The Right Form*
Originally posted by Aloïsius

That's a 12 level character(human)

Wiz 1 Dodge Mobility
Wiz 2 
Wiz 3 Combat Casting
Wiz 4 
Wiz 5 Extend spell
Wiz 6 Endurance
Wiz 7
Wiz 8
Spelldancer 1 Persistent spell
Spelldancer 2
Spelldancer 3
Spelldancer 4 (any feat you want)

Each morning, spelldance for 4 round, and cast a persistent Fiend Form, choosing the Erinyes. For the remaining of the day, you will be immune to poison and fire, cold and acid resistance 20, able to see in darkness, even magical, able to communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet. Plus, you will have DR 10/+1, fly 50, SR 12, will be able to cast animate dead, charm monster, desecrate, invisibility, magic circle against good, major image, polymorph self, produce flame, see invisibility, suggestion, unholy blight and teleport without error AT WILL . Add charm person(any humanoid within 60 feet, save DC 18) summon baatezu and tongues (permanent)...

Good, no ? (I mean Evil, this is the spell descriptor). 

For even more fun : a level 16 character (quiet the same as above...but...)

wiz 1 Dodge, Mobility
wiz 2
wiz 3 Combat casting
wiz 4
wiz 5 Energy substitution 
elemental savant (air) 1 extend spell
elemental savant (air) 2
elemental savant (air) 3
elemental savant (air) 4 persistent spell
elemental savant (air) 5
elemental savant (air) 6
elemental savant (air) 7 endurance
elemental savant (air) 8
elemental savant (air) 9
elemental savant (air) 10 (any feat you want)
spelldancer 1

Same benefit as above, plus Fly 100 perfect, immunity to lightning, sleep, paralysis, stunning, critical hits or flanking...You take double damage from acid, but will absorb the 20 first... Continue as a spelldancer, to gain Evasion as soon as possible.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Excerpts from Mr. Ginsu*
Originally posted by Elric
Saved from destruction by Roland

It's only an extract of this thread, however.

And this thread was made "before" the "S&F errata", so the crit. range'll be worse.

Mr. Ginsu could be found in the "Sword and Fist created a Death Machine" thread. Now it's deleted.

Henry:

"Mr. Ginsu" is: 

A hypothetical Fighter/Weaponmaster (10/10) with using a pair of +4 Vorpal Keen Bladed Gauntlets, and the feats Ambidexterity, TWF, ITWF, Weapon Focus (Bladed Gauntlets), Specialization (Bladed Gauntlets), Improved Critical, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. 

This would give him a minimum of 6 attacks around, and a crit range of 7-20 on the Bladed Gauntlets. 

If opponents ever surround him, he can do a Great Cleave/Whirlwind combo with an extra 2 attacks from the ITWF. With the vorpal gauntlets he theoretically has around a 90% chance of killing 8 Solars if they ever surround him. 

Actually, Mr. Ginsu only used one Bladed Gauntlet. I thought that people would think it incredibly ridiculous if I made a character with 2 +4 Vorpal, Keen Bladed Gauntlets. If I had made him use two weapons, I would have made him a Fighter 10/Weapons Master 9/Ranger 1. 

Mr. Ginsu also used the Quickened Haste/ki Whirlwind combo to get 2 Whirlwinds a round. His chance to kill the 8 Solars was well over 90%, even though no one ever did a full calculation. 

If opponents ever surround him, he can do a Great Cleave/Whirlwind combo with an extra 2 attacks from the ITWF. With the vorpal gauntlets he theoretically has around a 90% chance of killing 8 Solars if they ever surround him. [/B][/QUOTE] 

IIRC, whirlwind is a full attack which only allows one attack at highest bab. AFAIK, you shouldn't get any other offhand attacks. 

Whirlwind is a full round attack, for your primary hand. If you have ITWF, you still get your offhand attacks. It was a Sage Advice question. 

It's just gets worse and worse every time you ask them about that combo... 

keen weapons can be slashing or piercing weapons.

_Note by CRGreathouse

* Mr. Ginsu: Revisited*

With the permission of secretary Jeremy, I humbly submit a solution to this long-unanswered problem: 99.37%.

_<editor’s note: THE CR Greathouse asked *my* permission.  Heh.  No need CRG.>

_Conditions:
Ftr10/Weapon Master10
Attack bonus +33 (easily obtainable)
Great Cleave
Improved Critical (bladed gauntlet)
A single pre-errata +4 keen vorpal bladed gauntlet
Two Whirlwind Attacks via a hasted ki whirlwind

If the post-errata bladed gauntlets are used, the chance to kill all 8 drops to 51.34%; if a keen vorpal scimitar and Improved Critical (scimitar) are used instead, the chance becomes 89.91%.

One Whirlwind, no TWF:

Threat/Chance to kill all 8

7-20/87.87%
10-20/55.06%
13-20/16.32%_


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Iaijutsu Smackdown*
Originally posted by Furious Puffin

Hopefully this will work, as Enboards is acting kinda weird, saying that my I.P address was banned and then displaying it - as full stop.

This is a smackdown build around the Iaijutsu Focus skills and the Iaijutsu Master Prestige class from OA. For those who are no aware, the Iaijutsu Focus is a charisma based skill that allows you to do lots of extra damage (dependant on a skill check) if you a) catch your enemy flat-footed and b) and attack immediately after drawing a weapon

The character 4 samurai/ 1 fighter/ 1 ranger/ 10 Iaijutsu Master

Stats: 18 in dexterity and charisma. Everything else can be assumed to be 10, putting your bonus points into Charisma

Skills: 19 ranks of Iaijutsu Focus

Magic: Armour of Command from DotF for a charisma of 26
A ring of +10 to Iaijutsu Focus (Use the item creation rules in the DMG)
Boots of speed

Regular equipment: 2 Katanas and one wakizashi

Feats: (Only those in addition to class granted ones) - Fill up the rest with whatever else

Weapon Focus: Katana (Entry into Iaijutsu Master)
Weapon Prof: Katana
Quick Draw
Power Attack - Iaijutsu (OA)
Skills focus (Iaijutsu Focus)
Improved Initiative
Combat Reflexes
Expert tactician
Imp two weapon fighting

The plan:

Confront your target and get within 5 feet of him, after activating boots of speed. Insult his mother - or whatever seems necessary and initiate combat. The 10th level Iaijutsu Master ability "Strike with no thought" to get a free surprise round. Resolve all attacks, win initiative (Initiative bonus of 16, and if your DM was stupid enough to let you Faerun stuff you could pull +20) and resolve all attacks again. Every round drop your weapon (free action) and quick draw a new one (free action) and use Iaijutsu Focus for extra damage. Your average skill roll will grant +9d6 and a further +1d6 from Power Attack - Iaijutsu (OA feat) and then a further +8 to every dice from the Iaijutsu Master for an almighty 125 damage average per strike before all other bonuses

Also, due to the Iaijutsu Master special ability "I don't have my copy of OA handy and will look it up later"  , you can make two attacks with a Katana and still move - this implies that a double Katana attack is a partial action.

Opening (surprise) round

Katana attack/ Exp tact. attack/Haste Katana attack/ Exp tact. Attack

First round

Full Katana attack+ dual wakizashi attack/ Exp tact attack/Haste Katana attack/ Exp tact. Attack

Therefore over the course of the two rounds you have made a huge 20 attacks for an average 2500 points of damage if all attacks hit. Adding weapon damage you end up with 2610 points of damage, before the other guy has reacted.  

The smack is unfortunately slightly conditional on that fact that nether party surprises the other (to allow you to get your surprise round) and one of the magic items in not official. Removing the ring drops the damage by 2d6+16 per attack and shaves of 410 damage from the combo, leaving it with 2200 damage. Any further charisma boosts add +20 damage per +2 to charisma.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Pudding Smack!  --Yes, pudding.*
Originally posted by .Ziggy

This is a smacked monster that will probably challenge most of those sultans of smack:

(BTW - If someone have questions regarding the legality of this monster - please tell me) _<editor’s note: Archer does.  >

The CR12 smackdown monster is a:

half-celestial, half-dragon (gold), axiomatic black pudding !

It is immune to:

- acid (half-celestial)
- cold (half-celestial)
- electricity (half-celestial)
- fire (half-dragon)

It has sonic resistance 15 (axiomatic) and Spell resistance 20 (axiomatic). [Note: If you increase the HD of the pudding slightly to 13, it will get sonic resistance 20 and SR 25. This will not change CR]

It is also immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and polymorping [Note: Some of these might disappear when it gets Intelligent, it is AFAIK not covered by the rules]

It has wings and can fly, and breathe a 6D10 (DC20) cone of fire (1/day). It has bite and 2 claws, each doing 2D6 (2D4 claw) + 9 + 2D6 acid damage. And it will destroy weapons and armor with acid. It's also reasonably intelligent (INT 5, WIS 5). 

But the real killer is the black puddings immunity to weapons, if it is damaged by any weapon it will instead split into two identical creatures, each with half the original's hit points, but with all special abilities. 

It's going to be a bitch to damage, only a few spells work on it (e.g. force and death), and those must beat SR. And it doesn't matter how much melee damage you do, its only going to split it into two monsters. 

If you want to be nasty you could slap a Beast of Xvim onto it, then it will be CR13, but can feed on humanoids to increase HD. Let one out in a farming community, and watch it split and grow, split and grow .....

.Ziggy_


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*The Spell-Storing Smackdown*
Originally Posted by Sir Hawkeye

"Thanks for the hit points."

Max out a wizard for dagger throwing, and then utilize spell-storing daggers with metamagicked Vampiric Touches.

Halfling Wiz 16

Str 8+3d4(TT) = ~15
Dex 20+4(levels)+3d4(TT) = ~31
Con 10
Int 13+6 = 19
Wis 8
Cha 8

HP ~40
BAB: +8/+3

Feats:
Scribe Scroll
Maximize Spell
Craft Magic Arms and Armor
Weapon Focus: Dagger
Rapid Shot
Improved Rapid Shot [Non-Core, Optional](Dragon 275, no penalties for rapid shot)
Empower Spell
Far Shot
Point Blank Shot

Equipment:

6x Dagger +1, Spell Storing, Returning 

Headband of Intellect +6

Spells:

Maximized Empowered Vampiric Touch, Stored in each dagger
Haste, Running
Empowered Tenser's Transformation, Running

Hp: ~40+(1.5*16d6)= ~124
BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1

Now for the Attack Sequence:

At range of 20 ft:

Dagger +1 Spell Storing, Returning +30/+30(Rapid Shot)/+30(Haste)/+25/+20/+15
W/OUT IRS: +28/+28/+28/+23/+18/+13

Damage per attack: 1d4+4+(60+5d6)

Max Potential Damage: 498 hp
Max Potential Temporary hp gained: 90 hp

Avg. Damage AC 20: 461.3 hp
Avg. Damage AC 25: 419.0 hp
Avg. Damage AC 30: 355.5 hp

EDIT: Missed Halfling Thrown weapon bonus and bonus for size small in attack sequence. Avg. Damage calculations are still slightly inaccurate.

EDIT: Changed range to 20 ft. Temporary hp don't stack: reduced max temporary hp to 90. What's the source for that? Or is it just the "bonuses from the same source don't stack" rule that's in effect?

EDIT: Imp. Rpid Shot is non-core: denoted as optional. Added attack routines w/out IRS.
__________________
Then again, I could be insane.

_<editor’s note: Not that he isn’t great by himself, but I’d love to see this guy hand off those dagger to Jack the Knife.  1d4+16d6 per dagger = 6d4+64d6 (no save) + the rest of Jack’s attacks with their 8d6 sneak attack damage.  Ha ha ha!---er…  Sorry.>_

_<editor’s additional note: It has been clarified and pointed out by an astute rules lawyer that both the DMG and PHB specifically state that metamagic feats adjust the slot and the effective level for spell storing items and magic item creation.  So technically they’d have to be just regular vampiric touches, not the hyped up ones.  Again, not correcting the smack because I don’t want to alter someone else’s work and because people might expect me to do the same for every post.  >_


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*The Hit Point Super Soaker*
Originally Posted by MeanGenes

This isn't so much a smackdown but a min/maxing of HP:

Dwarf with 20 con, start lawful good align, switch to neutral good at 3rd level 
Levels (max/avg HP at each level) 
Level 1 paladin, feat toughness, 13/13 HP 
level 2 Ranger 10/5.5 
level 3 cleric, dwarf's toughness +6 HP, 14/10.5 
level 4 barbarian 12/6.5 
level 5 barbarian 12/6.5
level 6 fighter, dragon's toughness +12 taken twice, 34/29.5 
Level 7 fighter, dragon's toughness +12 , 22/17.5 
8-19 fighter with dragon's toughness taken every other level as bonus feat 

8 10/5.5 
9 22/17.5 + 12 dragon toughness feat 
10 10/5.5 
11 22/17.5 
12 10/5.5 + 12 DT 
13 22/17.5 
14 10/5.5 
15 22/17.5 + 12 DT 
16 10/5.5 
17 22/17.5 
18 10/5.5 +12 DT  
19 22/17.5 
20 sorc 4/2.5 get toad familiar 

Maximum HP = 351, avg = 277.5 (let's round up to 278). 

Now let's add in con. 20 at first level + 5 stat increases + 5 inherent (tome) + 6 amulet of health + 4 raging + 2 toad = 42 con. A 42 con gives a con bonus of +16. 16 X 20 levels = 320 HP. 

Max HP = 671, avg HP = 598. 

Now, you can add temporary HP into this like aid spell (1d8), bardic music (2d10), and potion of heroism (2d10).  You can also switch out a level of cleric for a level of psychic warrior and pick up the Verve power for 1 temporary HP for 1 minute.  If someone wants to go ahead and look up every +temporary HP spell and magic item go ahead and add that onto what I have so far.  Does anyone know how to add any more actual HP's though?
 __________________
-MeanGenes

"Doctors have it easy.  They get to bury their mistakes."
                                                     -Harlan Ellison

_<editor’s note: Please note that Souljourner also has a min/max thread similar to this on the boards currently, though this one pre-dated it by a very wide margin, and I haven’t checked to see which is better.  But kudos to both for the hard work!>_


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Barbarian Wizard Smackdown*
Originally Posted by -Eä-

_<editor’s note: I’m reluctant to include this post as it doesn’t actually include a smackdown, but I imagine it took a lot of time to think up and hammer out so I’ll post it anyways.  Takes moxy to post on this thread sometimes.  For the reader, this is not a one round smackdown, it is a way to play a multi fighter/wizard and still be able to cast competitive spells.  Something difficult to do often in 3e as multiclassing really hurts spellcasters.  That being said I trimmed it down significantly to make it much more brief and more an example of what it is, a solid strat…  Cleric spells he casts are from limited wish and are only bonus, not required.>_

Actually, I'm not sure if this qualifies as a smack, but I'll post what I have, and you can give me feedback on what to improve and what the flaws are.

Note that I assume that the potions are created before the adventure and that the items are so as well.

Character Dwarf

Ability Scores:

Str: 16 +4 (raised) +5 (inherent) (+8 (Tenser’s) +4 (Righteous) +4 (rage) = 41)
Dex: 12
Con: 12 +2 (Dwarf) +6 (item)
Int: 14 +6 (item)
Wis: 12
Cha: 10 –2 (Dwarf)

Speed: 20 (Dwarf) +10 (Barbarian) (60 with boots)

Barbarian 1: Rage
Wizard 8 (abjurer): Scribe Scroll, +1 Feat
Master Alchemist 10: Brew 9th level potions

Levels: 7 feats

Feats: 1. Brew Potions, 2. Magical Artisan: Potions, 3. Skill Focus: Alchemy, 4. Quicken Spell, 5. Maximise Spell, 6. Power Attack, 7. Craft Wondrous Item, 8. Improved Critical: Scythe

Spells:

0 4+1
1 6+1
2 5+1
3 5+1
4 5+1
5 5+1
6 3+1
7 3+1
8 2+1

Hit Points: 12+18d4+19*5…12+18*2,5+19*5=152

*BAB:* 1 (Barb) +4 (Wiz) +5 (Master Alchemist) = 10

*AB:* 10 (BAB) +7 (str)

_With Divine Power and Tenser’s Transformation + Rage_

*BAB:* 19 (Divine Power) +9 (Tenser’s Transformation) = 28

*AB:* 28 (BAB) +15 (Str) = 43

*AB Scythe:* 43 +1 (Enh) = 44		(44/39/34/29(/44))

*Damage Scythe:* 2d4+23 	18-20/x4

Saving Throws:

Fort: 2 (Barb) +2 (Wiz) +3 (MaA) +5 (Cape) +5 (Con) = 17
Refl: 0 (Barb) +2 (Wiz) +3 (MaA) +5 (Cape) +1 (Dex) = 11 (15 when Tenser’s)
Will: 0 (Barb) +6 (Wiz) +7 (MaA) +5 (Cape) +1 (Wis) = 19

*AC:* 10 +8 (Bracers) +5 (Ring) +5 (Amulet) +1 (Dex) = 29 (34 with Tenser’s, 38 with Tenser’s and Haste)

*Items:* 

Manual of Gainful Exercise +5: 137500 GP
Cloak of Major Displacement: 50000 GP
Ring of Protection +5: 50000 GP
+1 Keen Scythe of True Striking: 32500 GP
Headband of Intellect +6: 36000

306000 GP

_Created:_ 

Boots of Striding and Springing: 100 XP, 1250 GP
Bracers of Armour +8: 2560 XP, 32000 GP
Periapt of Health +6: 1440 XP, 18000 GP
3xPotion of Spell Turning: 3*136,5 XP = 409 XP, 3*1706,25GP = 5118 GP
Potion of Mind Blank: 180 XP, 2250 GP
Potion of Nondetection: 22 XP, 281 GP
Potion of Stoneskin: 42 XP, 525 GP
Amulet of Natural Armour +5: 2000 XP, 25000 GP
2xPotions of Haste: 90 XP, 1125 GP

6843 XP, 85549 GP
__________________
_Gods do not meddle in or care about our mathematical difficulties...

They integrate empirically!_

Eä


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Holy Polymorphed 4-Armed Smackdowns Batman!*
Originally Posted by DM with a vengence

Holy Polymorphed 4-Armed Smackdowns Batman!

The Character

Human Ranger1/Barbarian1/Fighter4/Order of the Bow Initiate10

Stats: Wisdom 26 (18 start + 4 level +6 Periapt of Wisdom)

Feats (By level)

1 Weapon Focus: Composite Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity
2 Rapid Shot
3 Precise Shot, Quickdraw
5 Weapon Specialization: Composite Longbow
6 Zen Archery
9 Improved Critical
12 Improved TWF
15 Any Feat

Items: Periapt of Wisdom +6, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Belt of Giants Strength +6, 2x Ioun Stone of Spell Storing, 2x +1 Mighty Composite Longbows (18) of Speed, 50x +1 Arrows of Spell Storing, Boots of Speed, 11x Scrolls of Hold Person, 3x Scrolls of Greater Magic Weapon (CL 15), Scroll of Tenser’s Transformation, 11x Scrolls of Fireball (CL 10), Scroll of Polymorph Other.

Preparation

Have your party members cast the spells from your scrolls into your magic items.  The Tenser’s Transformation into the Ioun Stone, The Fireballs and Hold Persons into the spell storing arrows, the Greater Magic Weapons onto your weapons and finally have them polymorph you into a 4-Armed Mutant Sahuagin.

Your final important stats are Str 20, Dex 19, and Wis 26.

*The Smackdown*

Surprise Round:  Activate Haste, Quickdraw your bows, activate your stones of Tenser’s Transformation and move to within 30 feet of your opponent.

1st Round: Fly into Barbarian Rage, increasing your Str to 24, then unload your Arrows of Spell Storing that you had charged with Hold Person.

Your BAB is 21 thanks to the Tenser’s Transformation so assuming full TWF and Rapid Shot, your base attacks are at 21/21/21/16/11/6/1 and 21/21/21/16.  Your modifier to ranged attacks is +26  (+5 arrows, +5 bow +4 dex, +13 wis (stacks due to Improved Zen Archery), +2 Focus, +1 Point Blank Shot –2 Rapid Shot –2 TWF) meaning you pull off your attacks at+ 47/47/47/42/37/32/27 and +47/47/47/42.  Each shot deals 1d8+18/17 (+5 arrow, +5 bow, +4/+3 Str, +4 Specialization), assuming all of them hit, and that’s not unlikely with a minimum attack bonus of +27, that means you do an average of 243.5 damage in the first round.  Since the target also has to make 11 DC14 Will saves, odds are they are now Held.

_<editor’s note: weapons of speed do not stack with haste, -1 attack up there>_

2nd round: Continue the Smackdown, but this time use Arrows of Spell Storing holding Fireballs.  Now, because the target is most likely Held, he will be vulnerable to the OoBI Sneak Attacks and gets a penalty to his save (or none according to the DM) against the 11 10th level fireballs.  He takes 11d8+165d6+194, or on average 1141 points of damage.

Total Damage in 2 rounds *1384.5*, or on average 692.5 points of damage a round.
__________________
Spilleng! suks: Too does' grammmer and Punctuation,

All the stupidest plans involve Alchemist's fire.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Multipurpose Smackdown*
Originally Posted by DM_Matt

_<editor’s note: again, fails to meet all the requirements of a smackdown, but another good example of a capable ftr/wiz, I think I’m going to delete any further non-qualifiers>_

This smackdown exploits the poor synergy between Oriental Adventures and the core rules, which makes Shujenja suitable for cleric PRCs.  This uses some controvercial rules (A shujenja who gets domains gets a domain spell slot to cast the spells in, but does not gain them as spells known)  but is intended to be a character that can smack with spells OR melee, and have extreme defensive abilities.

Str 24
Dex 24
Con 26
Int 20
Wis 12
Cha 30

Classes: Fighter1/Shujenja4/MysticWanderer1/DivineDesciple2/DivineAgent1/Hospitaler10

Attack: +14/+9/+4 (base)

Attack W/scim (GMF'd): +27/+22/+17, 12-20/x2 and Beheading

AC: 10+10(Cha)+7(Dex)+5(Natural)+5(Ring)+4(permanent mage armor)+5 (Shield) = 46

Init: +11

Fort: +29
Ref: +23
Will: +28

SacDef +1

HP: 11d10+5d8+4d6+160

Divine Emissary: Can communicate with outsiders telepathicly within 60 feet.
Divine Health:  Immune to all disease

Feats:

Alertness
Iron Will
Mounted Combat
Rideby Attack
Spellcasting Prodigy
Maximize Spell
Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Improved Critical (Scimitar)
Powel Critical (Scimitar)
Improved Initiative
Elemental Substitution (Acid)
Spell Focus (Evocation)
Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)

Items: 

Cloak of Cha +6 (36k)
Belt of Giant Str +6 (36k)
Gloves of Dex +6 (36k)
Bracers of Health +6 (36k)
Headband of Intellect +6 (36k)
Inherant to Cha +1 (27,500)
Boots of Striding and Springing/ Speed (12k)
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (50K)
Ring of Protection +5 (50k)
Ring of Evasion (4k)
+1 Keen Vorpal  Frost Holy Scimitar (200,000)
Ring of Spell Storing (90K)
-----

713.5

Domains: Spell, Time, Fire School (Moshi), Myticism

Spell/day: 6/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/6/4...all +d

Spells:

0 Light

1 Divine Favor, True Strike, Mage Armor, Burning Hands, Change Self, Protection from Evil

2 Spiritual Weapon Gentle Repose, Silence, The Fires that Cleanse, Cat's Grace, Heat Metal, Bull's Strength (or Endurance), Flaming Sphere, Endure Elements, Faerie Fire, Cause Fear, Hypnotism, 

3 Lesser Aspect of the Deity, Haste, Anyspell, , Fireball, Keen Edge, Searing Light, Greater Magic Weapon, Clarvoyance/Claraudience (or Haste)

4 Weapon of the Deity, Freedom of Movement, Rary's Neumonic Enhancer , Wall of Fire, Fire Shield, Lightning Bolt, Dismissal, Descern Lies

5 Rightious Might, Permanency, Break Enchantment, Fire Breath, Improved Invisibility, Spell resistance, Flame Strike, Feeblemind

6 Aspect of the Deity, Contingency, Greater Anyspell, Chain Lightning, Fire Seeds, Greater Glyph of Warding, Greater Dispelling

7 Holy Word, Mass Haste, Limited Wish, Prismatic Spray, Mass Invisibility, Fire Storm, Death of Mind's flame***

8 Holy Aura, Foresight, Antimagic Field, Everburning Rage**, Power Word: Blind, Teleport w/o Error

9 Greater Aspect of the Deity, Time Stop, Mord's Disjunction, Meteor Swarm, Call of Heaven*

* 1round/2levels: DR: 0/+1. 5d6 to all within 6 feet, Fly, can blast 10die fireballs as a free action, once/round, subtracting 1 from the duration each time.

** Ranged touch, reduces character to 0 hp for 1 round/level, no save.  If victim takes an action to get him down to -1, the damage becomes real.

***Feeblemind, Slow, and confusion, all in one

Weapon Smack:

Round 1:Contingency, Maximized Lightning Bolt
Round 2: Haste, GMW
Round 3: GMW, Holy Aura
Round 4: Greater Aspect of the Deity, Improved Invisibility
Round 5: Aspect of the Deity, Rightous Might
Round 6: Divine Favor, Call of Heaven
Round 7: LW(Divine Power), LW(Tensers Transformation)

_<editor’s note:  Too slow!  But as with the dwarven rage wizard, good example of how best to use your time while an enemy is closing on you.> _
------------------

+4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha.

SR 25...+4 to saves/AC...DR 10/+3...if hit, blinded, weapon might blow up...+4 str enlargement....Large.., +6 luck attack/dmg....immune to acid, cold, electricity, disease, one smite....BAB set to +30, +20d6 hp, +5 Fort saves, assume that the str and dex on 2d4 do not exceed 6
------------------------------

Bab: +48/+48/+43/+38/+33/+28/+23

AC: 50, saves 35,31,34, SR 25, DR 10/+3, Immune to Acid, Cold, and Disease, darkvision 60, Fly at 60, Large, 

-----------------

Round 7: (Smite) +58/+48/+43/+38/+33/+28/+23

Run through Spikeys SpreadSheet and extrapolating......Assuming all attacks hit, this character deals 345 dmg/round in melee on average....Also, assuming that everything hits, there is a 50% chance that  each hit will behead.

Add 60 for a contingencied lightning bolt, and 15d6/round from Call of heaven (53), and you get 398 dmg/round on average with a free 60 as a one-shot.

HP: 11d10+5d8+4d6+200+20d6.......MAX: 474...Average: 353

Spell Smack:

_<editor’s note: Snipped due to heavy errors and too many rounds, insert any number of high level arcane caster strategies here> _

Due to its complexity and the fact that it has been constantly changed, I am sure that there are errors.  Feel free to point em out, or to refine this.

Happy Smacking!


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Foamin’ Frenzy Smackdown*
Originally Posted by SpikeyFreak

Hope this hasn't already been posted, but I'm not going to read this whole thread.

I know this one isn't exaclty on the bleeding edge edge of damage maximums, but here's one that REALLY simple and can dish out a lot of damage.  Plus it's all WotC, and only Power Crit and Frenzied Berserker are non-core.

_<editor’s note: don’t worry about it.   simple hit-him-as-hard-as-you-can strategies work well with orc’s.  Though taking out 4 levels of barbarian would bring the level in line with other smacks.  >_

Half-Orc Barbarian 10\Frenzied Berserker 10

Stats: 

Str 50 (20 + 6 enhancement + 5 inherent + 5 level ups + 10 frenzy + 4 rage)

Feats: Power Attack, Power Critical, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus

Weapon: +5 Keen Greatsword of Speed

Rage and Frenzy, then use supreme power attack for 20 and power critical on the first attack.

That's 5 attacks at +26/+26/+21/+16/+11 doing 2d6+75 damage and 4d6+150 on a crit.  

vs AC 15 thats 550 damage average
vs AC 20 thats 513 damage average
vs AC 25 thats 448 damage average or Power attack for 18 and its 457 damage average
vs AC 30 thats 340 damage average or power attack for 13 and its 398 damage average

--Ragin' Spikey

_<author’s note: Also, I just realized that there are some easy, although not to realistic, ways of making Mr. Frenzy do a lot more damage.  Toss in a mercurial greatsword and get an incantrix to cast a 7 times empowered bulls strength and you get about +8 str and A LOT more damage on the first power critical attack.  Then toss on the ever-present rhino hide armor and haste for a partial charge with that power critical, and you get 1 attack that auto-crits (I think) and has a mult of x5.

That *one attack* does an average of 437 points of damage aginst everything all the way up to AC 32.

Ick.

--Unrealistic Spikey>_


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Whoah Ugly!*
Originally Posted by jontherev

By request here's my Fang of Lolth smackdown.

1 Rogue
2 Rogue
3 Rogue
4 Rogue
5 Rogue
6 Rogue
7 Rogue (qualify for  
8 Fang of Lolth1
9 FoL2
10 FoL3
11 FoL4
12 FoL5
13 FoL6
14 FoL7
15 FoL8
16 FoL9
17 Fighter1
18 Fighter2
19 Ninja1
20 Assassin1

By 20th level, you are a death machine. A total of +9d6 sneak attack dice. BAB of +13 (not so hot). But who cares? That's easily overcome by these feats: Weapon Finesse (weapon of choice), Weapon Focus (same weapon), Expert Tactician, and by 18th level, you'll also have MultiDexterity, MultiAttack, and MultiTwoWeaponFighting (IF your DM allows these to be selected as fighter feats...if not that makes this smackdown a bit less nasty).

_<editor’s note: Note that FoL levels stop at 16, so without the last 4 levels this char would be 16 too.  –3 BAB, 3 feats, and 2d6 sneak attack doesn’t hurt so much.>_

Let's see. 1 bite attack. 5 offhand attacks (normal offhand, and 4 spider legs). 3 primary hand attacks. 1 attack from Expert Tactician. 1 more attack if Hasted. Now, if you also took normal Ambidexterity, TWF, and Improved TWF, that another attack with your normal offhand. That's a possible of...12 attacks in one round if hasted, and 9 of those attacks are at the highest bonus!!! Now, if you have LOTS of money, add 6 weapons of speed for another 6 attacks.  That's a possible 18 attacks.  If you had a ring of blinking, you'd still hit with roughly 14 or 15 of them.  So, assuming all were sneak attacks, that is a total of +162d6 if all attacks landed. Ouch. Plus weapon damage and all that good stuff.  So, just from sneak attack damage alone, you have an *average* of 567...441 while blinking.
__________________
"C'mon, you know I'm right!"-everyone


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Minotaur Werewolf Halfiend Smackdown*
Posted by ashockney

I absolutely LOVE the Teamwork smackdown!  Hilarious!

Along those lines, creatures must be developed to contend with these powerhouses in campaigns.  So here's a contribution from my last high level campaign:

Minotaur Werewolf Half-fiend Fighter 4/Unholy Liberator 6 (exactly like Holy Liberator from DoF, but must be C/E) - CR 20

Str 44, Dex 12, Con 31, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 22
HP: 250
AC: 35 (-1 size, +8 nat, +1 dodge, +13Armor, +4 Haste)
Attacks: 41/36/31/26
Damage: 2d8+30+2d6 (Unholy Keen Huge Greataxe +5)
Reach: 10'
SA: Charge, Smite Good
Saves: 37/26/38
SD: Scent, Natural Cunning, all half fiend resists
Skills: Listen/Search/Spot +20

Magic Items: CoP +3, Ring of Free Movement, Ring of Spell Turning, Unholy Keen Huge Greataxe +5, Belt of Mighty Prowess, Boots of Speed, Mithral Plate +5 of Moderate Fortification

Typical Spells Cast: Holy Sword, Death Ward, Divine Sacrifice

Relevant Feats: Weapon Spec, Imp Crit, Divine Might, all the save bonuses, Blindfighting, Power Attack, and Cleave

Using 10 points of Power Attack (w/o Smite Good or Holy Sword factored in) base damage is:

AC 35: 209/round
AC 30: 261/round
AC 25: 293/round 

(and yes, my players did fight this guy...)


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*My half-orc priest beat your paladin champion with a stick!*
Originally Posted by Dantai

*PHB Smackdown with no magic items*

O.K. You got your prestige classes of uber-cheese only printed once in warbles and weevils magazine vol 1 smackdowns utilizing +8 swords of monkey-beasting. 

Here's something a bit simpler:

Half-Orc: Cleric (St Cuthbert) Lv16

Armed only with a common qurterstaff and these Feats:
Ambidexterity, TWF, Imp TWF, Power Attack

With Divine Favour (yes I am English), Greater Magic Weapon and Righteous Might cast.

With a strength of 24 activating your strength domain power gives a strength of 40 for a round, str 44 with righteous might.

So your base damage adjust is +17 (str) +25 (two-handed) +30 (luck bonus from divine favour) +35 (enhancement bonus from greater magic weapon).

You get 5 attacks this round the lowest attack bonus being +24, might as well use the smite ability on that one then for a grand total of:

191 + 5D8 damage

If you're being picky then Power Attack away to your heart's content.

Total cost of Smackdown ingredients = zip, not a single GP

Total number of dodgy classes and books used= zip, PHB only

So when you're butt-naked in the dungeon of ultimate despair you need only find a stick to prove that you are still the daddy.

For a bit of extra death you could use the Spikes spell out of DotF 

I guess you could disallow the Righteous Might if you only had one round to prep, but you could take a Barbarian Lvl (and a N alignment) and use rage to compensate, which would be slightly less effective but should still get the 200 pts in with a bit of power attacking.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Deepwood Sniper Smack*
Originally Posted by Urbanmech

Ok after reading smackdowns for some time, I finally though of a halfway decent one for the Deepwood Sniper.

Race: Elf (28 point buy)
Str 12 (18 with items), Dex 22 (28 with items), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Ranger 4/Fighter 4/Deepwood Sniper 7

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus:Composite Longbow, Far Shot, Weapon Spec. Composite Longbow, Improved Critical: Composite Longbow, two feats free

Magic Items: Gloves of Dexterity +6, Belt of Giant Strength +6, +5 Icy Burst Mighty (+4) Composite Longbow, Bracers of Archery, Boots of Speed, Ioun Stone (spell storing), Armor +5 (not really relevant here), Ring of Protection +2, Cloak of Resistance +3, Amulet of Natural Armor +2 =~253100gp.

The Ioun Stone holds Greater Magic Weapon (15th) and 3 Hunters Mercy's

To make this one work the archer needs to be within 30' to get the bonuses from Weapon Spec. and PB Shot and the Bracers.

Total BAB with all bonuses= 39/34/29/24
With Rapid Shot it becomes= 37/37/32/27/22

Each arrow does 1d8+18 with a threat range of 18-20/x5

On the surprise round activate the boots of speed then cast Hunters Mercy (makes next bow attack a crit if it hits)
On the 1st combat round: Full Attack.

Damage is 5d8+90+4d10 for the first shot (average 130)

The other 5 shots will do 1d8+18 each without crits. (average damage 110)
Total Damage = 240

The Deepwood Sniper can also reroll 2 attacks to try for more crits.  This gives 7 tries to get a second critical which should up the damage lots more.

Thoughts?  Suggestions to make it better or for those last two feats?
__________________
"Ahhh, sleep, that's where I'm a viking!"


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Charlatan Smackdown*
Originally Posted by Roland

Roleplaying Smackdown. Or Bluff is your friend. Or Dms are my Bitc*es.

Or Liar Smackdown. But I prefer "Charlatan Smackdown". 

It's a simple smackdown, with few magic objects and without Prc......
Well, when I build a character, I try to make him without too many magic objects.
Not burst, flaming, vorpal, speed and so on...
Your character must be strong without any Dm's aid. This is the way to the real smack!

For this smack you need Psionics Handbook, Song and Silence, FRCS and DMG.

Human Psion (Telepath) 16th level 

Skills: 19 to Bluff or to Diplomacy.
Cha 18 (+4) (Hey! It's a smackdown!)
Levels +4 so +2 to Cha
+5 Inherent so +2 to Cha (25500 gp)
Psycristal: Liar +2 to Bluff (or Friendly +2 to Diplomacy)

1st level: Spell Focus +2 to Bluff + Greater Spell Focus Bluff +4 (if you want a diplomat, choose Diplomacy, +4)
3rd level: Street Smarts +2 to Bluff and Gather Information (or if you want a diplomat, choose Smooth talk, +2) (FRCS)
6th level: Silver Palm +2 to bluff and +2 to Appraise (FRCS)
9th level: Psychoanalist: +2 to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks 
12th level: Charlatan +2 to Bluff and Disguise Checks (Trustworthy for Diplomacy) (S&Silence)
15th level: Persuasive +2 to Bluff and Intimidate checks. (S&Silence)
(For a diplomat player, 5 ranks in bluff give a +2 synergy to Diplomacy checks)

Cloak of Charisma +6 Enanchment bonus 36000 gp.
Potion of Glibness +30 to Bluff checks (500 gp) (Ok, maybe it's broken, but it's a core item!) An' it's cheap.
Shield: Command, +4 competence bonus to charisma. (4465 gp, I think)
Breastplate of Command, +2 circumstance bonus on charisma checks and skills (21600 gp)

Conceal Thoughts +20 (PsionH) (16 h) unammed bonus

(Optional +3 to Cha for age)

Total gp: 88065 gp.
-----------

Skill Check: 

1d20
+19 Bluff skill
+4 Cha 18
+2 Levels
+2 Inherent
+2 Psycristal
+4 Greater Spell Focus
+2 Street Smarts
+2 Silver Palm
+2 Psychoanalist
+2 Charlatan
+2 Persuasive
+3 Cloak of Cha.
+30 Potion of GLibness
+2 Buckler of Command
+2 Breastplate of Command
+20 Conceal Thoughts 
+2 optional for age (yes, It's +3 to Cha, but +5 inherent to Cha for the Tome...))
---

_<editor’s note: I’m pretty sure “Greater Spell Focus” was an error and comes out of there, unless it somehow can be ruled to affect the Conceal Thoughts power.>_

Total: 1d20+100 (0r 102 optional aged character). With only a standard action.

No preparing rounds. 

So with 2 on a roll, you have a 102 (104) Bluff ("or" only 50, I think, to Diplomacy Checks).

ps: Take for example Phlogiston, the uber Half-fire elemental/half-great wyrm red dragon drd20, cr47, his sense motive is 42+30 (impossible check, I think)=72+1d20 (A note: Sense motive isn't a class skill for a dragon! Bwahahaha)

"Yeah, yeah I'm a lammasu polymorphed in an halfling by an evil mage.. etc etc.. pfui.
How many times must I repeat this phrase, sigh? What? Sure, I'm trustworthy!"

Well, are we trying to influence an Npc? Okkaaayyy

1d20
+4 Charisma Modifier
+2 levels
+2 Inherent
+2 Psychoanalist
+3 Cloak of Cha
+2 Buckler, Shield
+2 Breastplate of Command
optional +3 age
---

Total=1d20+22 to Charisma Checks.

_<editor’s note: 19 ranks of diplomacy will add directly to that roll>_

A friendly Npc becomes Helpful.
An indifferent Npc become helpful with 8 on a roll.
An unfriendly Npc becomes helpful with 18 on a roll (ughhh) or friendly with 3.
Am hostile Npc becomes indifferent with 3, friendly with 13.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*That’s just EVIL!*
Originally Posted by DM_Matt

_<editor’s preface: I love bad guy DM smacks, this one has a lot of errors so I will try to sum up, due to the way that maho-tsukai is written, not only does this character have access to just about every spell list, he is effectively a 7 level caster in 3 different classes with all the scroll and wand benefits found therein.  Not to mention what a high base attack getting itinerate attacks at the monk unarmed rate will do with 8 arms and a tail on an iaijutsu master…  That said, I’m going to snip some of the errors that weren’t edited.>_

Ok, here is the OA Soul-Selling Smack.  This character has beomce a Maho, taking both associated prestige classes, and pleased evil sufficiently that he has become an Akutenshi.  The highlights of the smack are the Maho-Bjuin Crimson Road ability (which lets a character advance in iterative attacks as a monk advances in iterative unarmed attacks), the Maho-Tsukai's ability to convert previous spellcaster levels into Maho-tsukai levels and combine their spell lists, the Akutenshi ability for Maho-bujin levels to grant +1 spellcaster level for Maho-Tsukais, the Frenzied berserker's Improved Power Attack (-2 for +3), the Iajutsu Master's ability to add his cha bonus to each IJ die, and the way in which the berserkers's Deathless Frenzy works well with undead immunities.  Enjoy.

Str: 18+5=23
Dex: 18+6 = 24
Con: -
Int: 18
Wis: 18
Cha: 18+6= 24

Taint: 13

Race: Human with the Akutenshi template (ECL+2)
Level: 20

Classes: Maho-Bujin3/Maho-Tsuki 4(maho-tsukai 1,converted Clr1, converted sorc1, converted druid 1) +3 virtual levels for spellcasting purposes from template)/Iajutsu Master5/Barb1/Fighter1/Frenzied Berserker5/Contemplative1 (Mysticism Domain)

Akutenshi traits: Fast Healing 3, Undead, Damage Reduction 30/+3, 8 Arms, Tail, Maho, darkvision 120 or fly at 160 (poor)

EQ
-----
Cloak Cha +6                                             36k
Gloves Dex +6                                           36k
Periapt Wis +6                                        36k
Katana +1 Spellblade (Disintegrate) Corrosive Flaming Frost Acidic Burst Focus (+8) 99.28k
7 Katana's +1 Corrosive Flaming Frost      112k
Wand of Tenser's Transformation              90k
Wand of Righteous Might (Use Act)             37.5k
Necklace of Divine Favor (+6)(Use Act)     36k
Wand of Brilliant Aura 25c                        60k
Wand of Righteous Wrath o/t Faithful 25c  52.5k
Wand of Greater Aspect of the Deity 25c   60k
Wand of GMW  (50c)                                  16.875k
3 Lesser Rods of Empower                         48.6k
Lesser Rod of Chain Spell                          27.5k
----------------------------------------------

Skills:

Iaijutsu Focus: 23 ranks+14 insight+2 Skill Focus+7 Cha = +46

Feats:

Free: Multidexterity, Multiweapon Fighting, Remain Conscious,Weapon Finesse(Katana), Supreme Cleave, Improved Power Attack

Bonus: Skill Focus (Iaijutsu Focus), Weapon Focus (Katana), Power Attack

Level: Exotic Weapon Prof (Katana), Cleave, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage, Improved Critical (Katana)

Initiative: +15

Relevant Spells to cast on self: Improved Invisibility, Haste, Divine Power (while only holding main katana so the others don’t grow), use wands for tenser’s trans, righteous might, greater aspect of the deity, smite first attack, 3x empower Bulls Str...  gmw main katana, chain it to the rest with the rod... keen main katana... chain to the rest with the rod.

Str: 23+13(enh)+4(enlargement)+4(GAD)= 44 (+17)
Cha:24+2 GAD

BaB: 51/31/31/28/25 offhands 25/25/25/25/25/25/25, Tail 19 (all armor is ignored on all attacks [brilliant energy weapons] and improved invisibility will often strip Dex and Dodge bonuses as well)

DMG:

1 Attack at 2d6+1d6+1d6+1d6+1d6+9d6+72(IJF...average roll10) +10BA +45PA +6Luck +17Str +5rnh +2rrotf+20 smite)

4 Attacks at 2d6+1d6+1d6+1d6+1d6+9d6+72 (IJF...average roll 10)+10BA +45PA+ 6Luck+ 17Str+ 5rnh +2rrotf.

7 attacks at 1d10+1d6+1d6+1d6+9d6+72(IJF...average roll 10) +10BA +45PA+ 6Luck +9Str +5enh +2rrotf...

1 tail attack at 1d6+9+6+1
-------------------------------------

If all attacks hit ..assume normal odds of crits, so say, 3.5 with main attack, 2.5 with secondarys, none with tail or the smite.....

SO....270d6+9d10+3885 on the first round.

Thats a range of 4164 to 5595...so median damage should be 4883 points.  And this assumes that he did not get surprise. 

_<editor’s note: final tally needs to be recalculated due to losing 7 attacks (BAB maybe uncapped, but itinerate attacks are not unfortunately  >_

I am sure that there must be some slight miscalculations here, since I have tweaked it so much. After his attacks, he can activate rage and frenzy at the beginning of the next round, granting him +14 strength.  At that point, Deathless Rage kicks in.  It prevents him from dying until his rage is up.  Instadeath is an exception, but he is undead (no death magic, cant charm him) and his spellblade renders him immune to disintegrate, so he is practically invincible for a period of time.  He can also keep a staff with harm around to max out his hp during his hasted action.  This (and the inflict spells that he can cast) prevents opponents from running away and waiting for his frenzy to end and him to die.  Pretty much the only way this thing dies is if he is taken out just as his frenzy ends, or if he loses his sword AND gets disintegrated, or loses his healing stuff.  For an enemy that can pelt him from afar, he can just get out with a scroll of TP w/o E.


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*+200 Save Smackdown*
Originally Posted by Al

Noting a previous save smackdown where the averages were +40 or better, I thought I'd go a couple of steps further: I'd try to get an average of +60.  I managed that, but there was still just a little bit more that could be squeezed out, so I went for the big one: total saves of +200.  

Here it is:

Human Psi(Tel)1/Clr8/Contemplative9/Pal1/Sor1 *reincarnated* to a Halfling (this is crucial, see later).

Clerical Domains are irrelevant, but Contemplative prestige domains have to be Mysticism and Divination (e.g. Pelor should do the trick).

Base:
From Paladin:		+2/+0/+0
From Sorceror:	 	+2/+0/+2 (includes Rat familiar)
From Psion:	 	+0/+0/+2
From Cleric:	 	+6/+2/+6
From Contemplative:	+3/+3/+6
Totals (so far):	                +13/+5/+16

Forsaker might seem strange, but just become an ex-forsaker.  You only want to be one for the vital +1 boost to Dex.

Not too bad so far.

Reflex is looking a bit poorly, so cast Divine Agility to grant yourself the Reflex save of a 20th level rogue:	+13/+12/+16

Now, we cast Greater Aspect of the Deity, and then apply the ability mods:

Dex: 18base +5wish +6Gloves +2halfling racial +2halfcelestial racial = 33 (+11)
Con: 18base +5wish +6Headband of Perfect Excellence (S&F) +4halfcelestial racial = 33 (+11)
Wis: 18base +5wish +6Headband of Perfect Excellence +4halfcelestial racial +3age = 36 (+13)

Note that due to Timeless Body (Contemplative 9th level ability) there is no penalty to physical statistics from aging.

Add them on: 		+24/+23/+29

Now we begin the real smackdown:

Cha: 18base +5wish +5advancement +6Cloak +4halfcelestial racial +3age = 41 (+15)
Using Mysticism and the Paladin bonus, this gives +16 to saves (not +30, see DotF pg.80)

We now have:		+40/+39/+45

Beginning to shape up, but we're still a long way off.

So we turn our attention to feats: (8 total, 7+1 human (hence could not start halfling))

Iron Will		                +0/+0/+2
Lightning Reflexes	                +0/+2/+0
Great Fortitude		+2/+0/+0
Strong Soul		+1/+0/+1
Divine Cleansing	                +2/+0/+0 (when active) (sacred bonus)
Snake-Blooded		+0/+1/+0
Bullheaded		+0/+0/+1
Improved Psicrystal	                +2/+0/+2 (taking Resolve, includes bonus for Hero psicrystal)

NB NO Luck of Heroes as luck bonus will not stack with spells.

The tally stands at 	+47/+42/+51

Magical Items are next:

Vest of Resistance	         +5/+5/+5 (resistance)
Armour of Command         +2/+2/+2 (gives +4 to Cha, so +2 to all saves)
2 Arms of Nyr	         +0/+2/+0 (+4 Dex: hey, they are unnamed bonuses, who says you can't have two?)
Potion of Heroism	         +2/+2/+2 (competence bonus)
Headband of Perfect Excellence (already covered)
Gloves of Dexterity +6 (already covered)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (already covered)

That's it.  Anything else will be superseded by spells:

That takes us to	+56/+53/+60

Finally, here comes the spell run-down.  

Recitation		+3/+3/+3 (luck)
Righteous Wrath	+2/+2/+2 (morale)
Foresight		+0/+2/+0 (insight) (from Divination prestige domain)
Tenser's Transformation	+3/+0/+0 (competence, normally +5 but only +3 over Potion of Heroism)
Rage			+2/+0/+0 (+4 Con)
Curse of the Brute	+1/+0/+0 (since you have odd numbers in both Charisma and Constitution, this will yield a net benefit)
Emotion: Rage 		+1/+0/+0 (+2 Con, and believe it or not it does stack with Rage)
Greater Aspect of the Deity (already covered)

Use Miracle to emulate spells which you cannot cast (TT, Rage, Emotion).  Technically, if TT'd you cannot cast spell, and same with Rage, so TT yourself and ask a friend to Rage you. 

Total:			+68/+60/+65

Then, stand behind 9/10 cover.  This gives a +4 cover bonus to Reflex saves: it's a bit of a cheat, but smackdowns assume optimal conditions. If you're particularly worried, just assume we create Walls of Stone around ourselves.

This takes us to +68/+64/+65.

Three points off!

That's why you got reincarnated as a halfling.  

Add the racial bonuses and you get the grand total of +69/+65/+66.  Add them together and you get +200.  

Phew!

And believe it or not, this actually makes quite an effective character even if not going for saves: he can use arcane, psionic and divine items, cast 9th level divine spells and has full armour and martial weapon proficiencies, as well as have a few 1st arcane and psionic abilities as a little boost.  Neither are there multiclass penalties (you started as a human, remember?).  Finally, it is 'self-contained': there is no reliance on scrolls: 36 Wis gives you 3 9th level spells (Miracles) and 1 domain spell (Greater Aspect of the Deity).

All of this assumes you can't Empower a spell more than once: otherwise Triple Empowered Eagle's Splendour is the way to go (and 3xEmpowered Cat's Grace/Endurance/Owl's Wisdom).

Now what were the DCs for Azathoth's spells again? 60ish? Not a problem
__________________
'Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic' -Arthur C. Clarke

'Any technology not indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced' -Terry Pratchett

_<author’s updates: You *can* Empower many times...now that is interesting.

Well, in that case make the following changes:

Quadruple Empowered (Triple Empowered, once from Rod of Greater Empowerment) Cat's Grace/Endurance/Owl's Wisdom and Eagle's Splendor.

Max enhancement bonus = 5 x 3 = +15

This takes stats up to
Dex 42 (+5 better than before)
Con 42 (+4 better than before)
Wis 45 (+5 better)
Cha 50 (+5 better)

So saves are now +78/+75/+76, total +229.>_


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

*Please remember that no smack is perfect on it's first try and if you'll do a search for the original thread of the smack, you'll probably find that your concerns have been posted and addressed in the thread.*  Unfortunately for my own sanity's sake and for the preservation of the brevity of this archive, I cannot post every question and correction for every post.

Conversely, if an author wants to use the board's private message thing to send me additions or corrections to one of their posts, it is your post and I will do my best to alter it as you like as soon as possible.

Thank you, and let the smacks continue!

General guidelines for new smacks:

-Creative
-Entertaining
-16 level PC’s/Good Guys or lower (CR20 Monsters/Bad Guys or lower)
200+ points of damage in a single round to one opponent or more (cumulative damage does not apply, i.e. no 60 damage fireball that hits 4 people), preferably if not the first round, then the first round then enemy can react to you
-Legal according to published rules, sourcebooks, and expansions

Submissions now open, smack away.


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## Veldrane (Apr 12, 2002)

*Evil Wizard, kneel to The Lady*

_Spellcasting Cleric DC Smackdown_

Should've been titled: "Evil Wizard, kiss my a**", but The Lady deserves more respect 

Tired of all the 20th level Red Wizard / Shadow Adept that have impressive DC? Ok, let's see a 16th level Good Guy that can smash 'em down... ...and it's very easy to build...

*Material used:* Phb, FRCS, DotF

*Character:* Human, Cleric (Mystra) 7 / Divine Disciple 5 (Mystra) / Contemplative (Mystra) 1 / Hierophant 3

*Domains:*
Cleric: Spells, Magic
Divine Disciple: Madness*
Contemplative: what you want

*according to the Deities conversion table on FRCS, Mystra has the Madness domain

* Hierophant abilities:* 3* +2 Spell Power

*Feats:* (in any order but Spellcasting Prodigy at 1st Level)
Spellcasting Prodigy
Spell Focus: Necromancy
Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Heighten Spells
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration

*Items:*
Tome of Understanding +5
Rod of Greater Empowerment

* Preparation: *
Actually just casting the Owl's Wisdom at the beginning of the day and preparing a Spell Enhancer as sixth-level domain spell via Anyspell (Spells Domain). Oh, also Heighten the Destruction spell from lvl 7 to 8.

*Wisdom Score*

18 Base
+2 Spellcasting Prodigy
+4 Level Ups
+5 Inherent
+6 Insanity Score*
+15 Owl Wisdom**
=

_50 Wisdom_, for a _Bonus of +20_ (and a huge amount of bonus spells  )

* Assuming the DM only allows the PrC that gives the Madness Prestige Domain to stack with Cleric levels
** Quad-Empowered Owl's Wisdom, three times with metamagic feat (becoming an 8th lvl spell), and once via Rod of Greater Empowerment

*Save DC:*

10 Base
+20 Wisdom Modifier
+6 Hierophant Abilities
+4 Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
+2 Spell Enhancer (casted as a free action)
=

_DC: 42 + Spell Level_ meaning the *Destruction will have DC 50 *

* Overcoming Spell Resistance Check *

16 Level
+6 Hierophant Abilities
+4 Greater Spell Penetration
=

*+26*, not bad, since you're just 16th level

Actually the Spell Enhancer can be used via magical item -you have the Magic Domain- as a partial action granted by Boots of Speed (if your DM doesn't allow free action spells to retain their quickness if cast via magical items)

The DC can be improved going to lvl 20 (other 2 Spell Power +2 or just one and the Divine Reach to convert all the Slay Living spells in Ranged Touches), you get another +1 to Wisdom through level ups, and you can finish the Hierophant PrC and get two more levels as a Cleric to increase by 1 more your Insanity Score, but it's quite effective also as it is at 16th level 

Enjoy, and Hail to The Lady of Mysteries  

Edit: typo


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

Very astute Veldrane.  As DotF is based on "default" Greyhawk setting, the only deities listed with the Madness domain are the Greyhawk trio Boccob, Erythnul, and Vecna.

But in the FR, those three translate to (FRCS pg. 9) Azuth, Mystra, Savras, Velsharoon, Cyric, Garagos, Malar, and Shar.  Very nice.  Well done.

Meanwhile, into my head pops this little idea...

How about a 16th level _schism_'d psion who throws out a quickened mass concussion as a free action, a twinned mass concussion with his standard action, and another twinned mass concussion with his extra partial mental action (---then uses his move action to hide of course )?

That'd be 35d4 damage over a 40 ft diameter sphere at a range of over 1000 feet.  And with the highest DC possible: No Save.  

35d4 is what?  87 points of damage average?  Blast.  Too weak.  Hmmmm..  Too bad you can't maximize those, it's not like you haven't got the power points for it.  That'd be 140 damage, no save for the bargain price of 63 of around 203 of your power points.  Of course, a 20th level psion could do it if he had a torc of psionic might...

Oh well, I guess the only psion smacks are going to be half echo's of arcane ones or possibly....  Hmmmm...  Level 16 18 CHA human telepath takes greater psionic focus in telepathy, manifests a 3x fortified animal affinity for a maximum of 8 points of charisma, has a cloak of charisma +6, a medium shield of command (+4 competence bonus to CHA), +4 from level ups, +4 from a tome of leadership and influence, and is wearing a psionatrix of telepathy has a DC 30-50 Will Save for his True Domination power...  Oh well, I guess he can go Dominate one of the other smackdown characters to do 200+ points of damage.

Or maybe a Egoist/Savant/Nomad who really needs something taken care of can bump their DC by 20-40 with psychofeedback and give someone a DC 90 disintegrate or some such.  That might be promising, but only as a last ditch effort, and if it's last ditch, you probably wouldn't have the 89 power points you need to do it, even if you had 200+ to start the day with...  Well, maybe...

Bah.  Wimpy psions.


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## Veldrane (Apr 12, 2002)

Try with the Overpower Feat instead of multiple Fortify... ... power x2 instead of power x1.75 at the same cost (+6 PP)...

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/psi/psi20011026a


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## DM_Matt (Apr 12, 2002)

Where does it say that iterative attacks are capped?

Even so, though, the "That's Just EVIL!" smackdown loses 5 attacks, not 7.  Two attacks are granted by Haste and Rightious Wrath of the Faithful in addition to the five iteratives.


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## Veldrane (Apr 12, 2002)

A couple of tweaks about Spikey's Smackdown (the Frenzied Berserker):

 Insert two levels of Tribal Protector before the Frenzied Berserker, thus making it Barbarian 1 / Fighter 4 / Tribal Protector 2 / Frenzied Berserker 10. This allows to use the Wild Fighting Ability (one more attack at the highest BAB, but all attacks at -2)
 Use the Falchion and go for the Improved Critical / Keen weapon (with 6 attacks / round, you criticize on 12-20, it hurts a lot)

Hope it helps...


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## Jeremy (Apr 12, 2002)

Of all places, it first appeared in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.  But the Sage has since confirmed it, and no creature with 20+ BAB since, monk or otherwise, has had more than 4 attacks from BAB.  Admittedly, his are great only decreasing 3 rather than 5 from base..

Ah, sorry.  I guess I misinterpreted, I sliced off the sliding down attacks past the static numbers after 4.

If you'll let me know how the text should read, I'll edit it into the text.  Send it to me in an e-mail though.   jairevans@hotmail.com

I always forget those net feats, thanks Veldrane.


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## Darkness8Me (Apr 13, 2002)

My small contribution.  Let me know if anything is in error.


The Pouncing Paladin

Human Paladin 3 / Fighter 6 / Singh Rager 7
Str:  28 / 32 raged (18 base + 4 level + 6 enhancement)
Cha:  28 (18 base + 6 enhancement + 4 competence)

Feats:
11 (1 Human + 6 Normal + 4 Fighter)
Ambidexterity, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Iron Will, Ki Shout, Power Attack, Power Lunge, Shield Charge, Two-Weapon Fighting

Magic Items:
(only 93,335 of 260,000 gp)
+1 bashing command large steel shield (16,170), Belt of Giant’s Strength +6 (36k), Cloak of Charisma +6 (36k), Rhino Hide (5,165)

Round 1:
Standard Action - Swiftness of the lioness (haste)
Partial Action - Divine Might or Divine Shield

Round 2:
Partial Action - Divine Might or Divine Shield
Free Action - Lion’s fury (rage)
Standard Action - CHARGE! (using Power Lunge and the Lion’s pounce class ability)

*436 MINIMUM damage* if all attacks hit (4 main hand / 2 off-hand):
(64 x 4 + 90 x 2)

Main Hand:
Attack:  16 base + 2 charge + 11 strength - 2 two-weapon fighting = +27/+22/+17/+12
Damage:  1d8 Weapon + 9 Divine Might + 22 Strength & Power Lunge = 1d8 + 31
x2 Rhino Hide
2d8+62 (64 minimum, 71 average)

Off Hand:
Attack:  16 base + 2 charge + 9 shield + 11 strength - 2 two-weapon fighting = +36/+31
Damage:  1d8 Bashing Shield + 9 Divine Might + 9 Divine Shield + 11 Strength & Power Lunge = 1d8 + 29
x3 Rhino Hide, Shield Charge
3d8+87 (90 minimum, 100.5 average)


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## Soltares (Apr 13, 2002)

Wonderful reading.  

One note about the Mack the Knife smack;

>Sure, they kill your fiendish badger on their turn, but you
>summon another one. You get the picture. 

As size Tiny creatures, Badgers don't threaten an area and hence cannot flank.  But Summon Monster 1 does allow the Small Dog option, and that does threaten and can flank, so the tactic is still sound.


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## reapersaurus (Apr 13, 2002)

Great work, Jeremy!
That could not have been easy, to not only re-post those, but to clean up all those creative juices and make them as clear as possible with the editing!  

Darkness8Me : that's a great smack, and I think that helps me in thinking up even more damage for the Paladin Shield Smack.

Ideas for more damage:
Go with 2 Bashing Spellstoring Shields (I'm considering the use of a Targe from Arms & Armor - 19-20 threat range), one with Knockback enchantment from Magic of Faerun, the other with Command enchantment. Pop spells of Smite in the Targe from a 16th level Cleric friend.
Also have him cast Spikes on your shields (+10 to damage, doubles crit range)
Replace the Paladin levels with one Ranger, 1 Cleric (1 domain would be Charm :  +4 to CHA), and a Tribal Protector (I'm working on how to work this out, but they need Cleave and Great Cleave, and we're running out of feats).
Add Greater 2-weapon fighting.
Add Power Critical.

Go to town.
Jeremy - attached is the revised Shuriken Smack - please replace the original on page 1? 
Thanks a lot, and again - I salute your efforts, Mr. Secretary.


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## Darkness (Apr 14, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Of all places, it first appeared in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.  But the Sage has since confirmed it, and no creature with 20+ BAB since ... has had more than 4 attacks from BAB. ...*



Have they errata'd the solar, BTW? Solars get 5 attacks with their swords and bows in their MM write-up (p.30)...


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## hong (Apr 14, 2002)

Darkness said:
			
		

> *Have they errata'd the solar, BTW? Solars get 5 attacks with their swords and bows in their MM write-up (p.30)... *




They errataed the regen to fast healing, but didn't change the no. of attacks.


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## Jeremy (Apr 18, 2002)

Back open for submissions.


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## Jeremy (Apr 22, 2002)

I was over in the enhancement bonus on bows and arrows thread when the min/max bug hit me and I posted a sniper based on my current character from memory.  I matched a previous example so he's only 15th level instead of 16th, but feel free to add another sniper level or maybe a level of ranger so he can use a wand of Hunter's Mercy.  In either case, here's the post for the archive.



			
				Macbrea said:
			
		

> *Minmax the archer Half-elf
> So: Rapid shotting on average: +26/+26/+21/+21/+16
> Damage: (under 30ft) 1d10 + 18   + (2 vs humans) + (1 on this plane)
> 
> ...




<scoffs>

That's not min/max the archer.  THIS is min/max the archer.

Wood Elf Psychic Warrior 7/Deepwood Sniper 8

18 STR, 34 DEX (20 DEX +3 from levels, 6 from gloves of dexterity, and 5 from a lucky animal affinity)

+14/+9/+4 (BAB) +6 (Metaphysical Bow and Arrows) +1 (Weapon Focus) +1 (Point Blank Shot) +2 (Bracers of Archery) +12 (DEX) -2 (Rapid Shot) = +34/+34/+29/+24 with an additional shot at +34 due to haste from Boots of Speed.

Damage within 30' is 1d8 + 6 (Metaphysical Bow and Arrows) +2 (Weapon Specialization) +1 (Point Blank Shot) +1 (Bracers of Archery) +4 (Mighty [+4] Oathbow) = 1d8+14 (17-20/x5) because of the sniper's keen arrows and your improved critical feat until you swear aloud to kill something, upon which your damage becomes 2d8+28 (17-20/x6).

Figuring one of those 5 attacks crits and the other 4 hit, average damage is about 222 on the critical arrow + 148 on the other arrows.  If you don't like assuming out of 5 rolls a 17 or higher will come up once, then buy the character an ioun stone that stores 6 spell levels and get 6 Hunter's Mercy spells put in it.  Then use your extra partial haste action to use the ioun stone and you've got a virtually guaranteed critical (just don't roll a 1 on the confirmation roll).

And now that the Netbook of Feats pdf is in it's 8th incarnation there is a wonderful feat called "Called Shot" in there that is basically power attack but with a ranged weapon.  -to hit = +to damage up to base attack bonus...  And with +34 to hit, you can probably take a -14 to hit for +14 to damage leaving you at +20/+20/+20/+15/+10 for 2d8+56 (17-20/x6) when maxing for 390 points of damage per critical shot and 65 damage per shot for the rest.

But I'll leave that part out for the purists.  

I apologize for any errors in this, the President of the company is supposed to be in today so I left my books at home.  I had to do that from memory.

Fun stuff.

EDIT: I'm not sure novyet.  I just punched it into my calculator 3 times and got thee different totals.  I must be mentally handicapped some how if I can't do addition with a calculator.  14+6 is 20, 20+1+1+2 is 24, 24+12 is 36, and 36-2 is 34 right?  Maybe I added dex twice or strength to hit, or maybe I'm just addled.    I fixed the numbers (I think) maybe I should just go lie down.  Please point out any further mistakes.    Love the sig BTW, too bad there's no way to get the trumpet part to come across in letters.


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## novyet (Apr 22, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *I was over in the enhancement bonus on bows and arrows thread when the min/max bug hit me and I posted a sniper based on my current character from memory.  I matched a previous example so he's only 15th level instead of 16th, but feel free to add another sniper level or maybe a level of ranger so he can use a wand of Hunter's Mercy.  In either case, here's the post for the archive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have a question for you, how did you end with an Attack bonus of +57? I must be missing something from the post because you have +14 (BAB) +12 (Dex) +6 (Metaphysical Bow + Arrows) +1 (Weapon Focus) +1 (PBS) +2 (Bracers) -2 (Rapid Shot) = +34. 

Did I miss something? Otherwise it's pretty sweet.


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## Velenne (Apr 26, 2002)

_ARCHTUNG!! BLITZKRIEG!!_ 
Psion Smackdown

Within the confining text of the Psionics Handbook, finding a smackdown is rare.  Most of the really fun powers, a psion won't take because it's rarely applicable or has a ridiculously high XP cost.  

High level psions, are still to be feared, however.  Yes, that's plural for a reason.  Min/maxers, start your calculators:

For this smackdown, any race will do.  Neither does it require items, although a torc of psionic might is always handy to conserve precious power points.

Feats: Maximize Power, Fortify Power, Leadership

Powers Known: Schism, Fission, Mass Concussion, Metamorphosis

Level: Egoist 16; with a 14th level Egoist cohort because you took Leadership at 15th level.

Now you see your unsuspecting victims walking down a path, or a hallway in an underground cavern, in a little formation.  Either way, you and your cohort know they're coming because you sent your psicrystals ahead to watch them right?  You've metamorphosized into small trees, stalagmites, or even stones or mushrooms.  You've also both fissioned and manifested schism.  

Now since Mass Concussion is a Long range power, the both of you begin manifesting as soon as they're within your cohort's more limited range of 960 feet.  

Surprise Round:  
- You and your fission maximize and fortify Mass Concussion for a total of 35 points of damage (7d4 = 28 * 1.25 = 35) and 15 power points (7+6+2).  
- Your cohort and his fission can't pull off the fortify, but can maximize it for 28 dmg and 13 power points.  
- You and your fission's schism'd minds can 2x fortify for an average of (14*1.5 equals) 21, costing another 15 pp's each.  
- Your cohort and his fission's schism'd minds can only fortify it once for an average of (14*1.25 equals) 17 costing another 13 pp's each. 

So round 1, the two (four?) of you do 35 (you) + 35 (fission) + 28 (cohort) + 28 (cohort fission) + 21 (your schism) +21 (your fission's schism) + 17 (cohort's schism)  +17 (cohort's fission's schism) = *202 damage to everyone in the party* .  No save.  It cost you each 27 pp's to prepare.  It then cost you 30 and your fission'd self 30 pp's.  It cost your cohort and his fission'd self 28 each.  That leaves you a bare minimum of (115 base for 16th level psion + 9 from bonus pp's becuase you needed a minimum of 17 in your primary stat to manifest fission - 27 to prepare - 30 equals) 67 pp's.  Around half that for your fission'd self.  Your cohort also has enough to do it again but I won't go into those numbers.

The only display is Material, so your victims or the area where you're at 960 feet away is briefly slicked with "ephemeral translucent goo".  Either way, the chances you've been spotted are nil.

So if your opponents are wise, and they win init, they might scatter.  But for fun let's assume you and your cohort win init and you do it to them again with your remaining pp's.  202 from suprise round + 202 from Round 1 = 404 damage to however many creatures were in that 20' radius.  A 18th level barbarian with 30 CON and max hit points at every level only has (18d12 + 180 equals) 396 hit points.  So chances are pretty good you just nuked the entire group.  No save.  Even if some errata or house rule I havn't heard of allows a reflex for half, that's still a minimum of 202 barring no one in the group has evasion.


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## 'o Skoteinos (Apr 26, 2002)

*The *real* DC smackdown*

I just lost my post (and I’m really angry about that), so this one is just functional, not really much explaining:

The DC 48 smackdown was nice, but not impressive: my 0th level spells have that DC...

Human from Thay Nec 5 / Sha 1 / Red 10 / Acm 4

Int 18 (Base) + 2 (Spellcasting Prodigy) + 6 (Headband of Intellect) + 5 (Inherent) + 5 (Levels) + 3 (Age) + 2 (Lich) = 41 (+15)

Feats:
1 Tattoo Focus
1 Spellcasting Prodigy (Wizard)
3 Shadow Weave Magic
5 Heithen Spell
6 Craft Wonderous Items
9 Spell Focus (Necromancy)
12 Spell Focus (Enchantment)
12 Skill Focus (Spelcraft)
15 Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
18 Silent Spell

DC: 10 (Base) + 15 (Int) + 6 (Archmage Spellpower) + 5 (Red Wizard Spell Power) + 4 (Greater Spell Focus) + 3 (2 doses of Panaelo [Drug from LoD]) + 2 Spell Enhancer [Spell from MoF]) + 1 (Tattoo Focus) + 1 (Shadow Weave Magic) + 9 (Spell Heightened to 9th level) = 56.

It is possible (with a little loose interpretation of the rules) to reach DC 57:

Start as a Sun Elf (+2 Int), then take the exact same path (except for the Tattoo Focus). On 6th level, find a high level Red Wizard who initiates you into his circle (if necceccary, Polymorph into a human). Then, continue with the levels + feats as a human. The +2 Int gives you one more DC, reaching DC 57.

DCs:

0: 48 (Elminster needs a 31 to save )
1: 49
2: 50
3: 51
4: 52
5: 53
6: 54
7: 55
8: 56
9: 57


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## Burne (Apr 27, 2002)

Leadership Rogue Cheese or "You and What Army?!"
Assumptions: Cohorts will be of the maximum allowable lvl. No hoarding feats. No Leadership modifiers.
Books Required: PHB, DMG

Character: 18 Cha + Rogue levels. All advancement points except for your 20th level point go into CHA. Extra Charisma from items or race gives you more followers sooner, but the final tally remains the same as this character maxes the chart without any magical help required.  All feats 6th and above are used to buy Leadership, Rogue Special abilities are used to buy Leadership.

Legend:
Lvl: Main characters Level
CHA: Main Characters Charisma
LS: Leadership Score: See page 45-46 DMG for the tables and description. Leadership Score is equal to character level + Charisma modifier +/- other factors which don't much matter.
CH1 - CH9: The current level of each of your Cohorts numbered 1 through 9.
Followers: Number of Followers of each level. Followers can only be Warriors, Experts, or Commoners
M: Multiplier or the number of times the Leadership feat has been taken.

```
[color=white]
                                                      Followers
Lvl|CHA|LS|CH1|CH2|CH3|CH4|CH5|CH6|CH7|CH8|CH9| 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th|M
1  | 18|--| - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |  - / - / - / - / - / - |0
4  | 19|--| - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |  - / - / - / - / - / - |0
6  | 19|10| 5 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |   5/ - / - / - / - / - |1
7  | 19|11| 5 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |   6/ - / - / - / - / - |1
8  | 20|13| 6 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |  10/  1/ - / - / - / - |1
9  | 20|14| 6 | 8 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |  30/  2/ - / - / - / - |2
10 | 20|15| 7 | 8 | 9 | - | - | - | - | - | - |  60/  6/  3/ - / - / - |3
11 | 20|16| 8 | 9 | 9 | - | - | - | - | - | - |  75/  6/  3/ - / - / - |3
12 | 21|17| 8 | 9 | 10| 11| - | - | - | - | - | 120/ 12/  4/  4/ - / - |4
13 | 21|18| 9 | 10| 10| 11| 12| - | - | - | - | 175/ 15/  5/  5/ - / - |5
14 | 21|19| 10| 11| 11| 12| 12| - | - | - | - | 200/ 20/ 10/  5/  5/ - |5
15 | 21|20| 11| 11| 12| 12| 13| 14| - | - | - | 300/ 30/ 18/ 12/  6/ - |6
16 | 22|22| 11| 12| 12| 13| 14| 14| 15| - | - | 525/ 49/ 28/ 14/ 14/ 7 |7
17 | 22|23| 12| 13| 13| 13| 14| 15| 15| - | - | 630/ 63/ 35/ 21/ 14/ 7 |7
18 | 22|24| 13| 13| 14| 14| 15| 15| 16| 17| - | 880/ 88/ 48/ 24/ 16/ 8 |8
19 | 22|25| 13| 14| 14| 15| 16| 16| 16| 17| 17|1215/117/ 63/ 36/ 18/18 |9
20 | 22|26| 14| 15| 15| 15| 16| 16| 17| 18| 17|1215/117/ 63/ 36/ 18/18 |9
[/color]
```
Total at 20th level: 9 Cohorts, 1467 Followers, 2024 Levels worth of people.

Neat huh.

Now.... The Smackdown!

Assuming that all of your followers are Human Warriors with Point Blank Shot, Rapid-shot and average stats, then...

Composite Longbows for 1467 Followers: 146,700 gp
10 rounds worth of Arrows: 1476 gp
591 Scrolls of Greater Magic Weapon(5th lvl caster) 221,625 gp
Total Spent: 369,801 gp
Money Left to spend: 390,199 gp
Finding a way to use all the GMW scrolls on 29,550 arrows making them +2 (which adds 324.72 damage): Priceless

Surprise Round: Main Character Shouts "Get `em" as Free action. Sits down in Lawnchair with Cohorts as a partial action.
Round 1:
2952 Follower attacks (All followers take 2 attacks, and your 18 6th lvl warriors take 3)
147.6 Autohits of which 7.38 are crits
140.22 * 4.5 (Longbows: d8) + 7.38 * 13.5
630.99+99.63 = 730.62 damage per round. More damage if the target requires less than a natural 20 to hit.

Real World: The average damage would likely be more than that as I'm sure at least some of the followers would have magic bows or above average strengths which could be taken advantage of. Of course if the target has damage reduction then we lose, but I'm sure that at that point a Cohort or two could be convinced to get out of the lawnchair and deal with the menace.  "Hurry up and kill the Balor, Buffy; Arnold will be over at sundown, and then I have to inspire the troops again. You, Ms. Number 594, could you be a dear and freshen up my martini, its gone all warm on me."

Of course, there are a bunch of ways to increase that damage, but I can't think of any method to easily effect all 1467 followers at once. If anyone knows a way, speak up!

Comments: You can increase the level of that first cohort by killing him off and using Charisma magic items to offset the -2 Leadership Score penalty. This lets you replace him with a higher level cohort. 

It costs you 440 gp per day to feed your Horde a good meal. Roughly another 293 gp to house them (based on poor lodging). Which means that as a 20th lvl character, spend the rest of your Average Character loot, you can only support your Horde for a mere  532 days or 1 year 5 and a half months.  Should be just enough time to conquer that small duchy you had your eye on, and get the real dough flowing in 

By spending 72,500 gp of your 150,000 gp, you can max the follower chart out at 14th level.
72,500 buys you +6 Enhancement item (36k), +1 Armor of Command (9k), and +1 inherent book (27.5k) which takes your Charisma to 32, which makes your leadership score 25 exactly.  Doing this, you can have 1141 followers at 16th lvl reducing the damage to only 568.22 per round.

My good roommates, being disgusted with the lack of 18th lvl Wizard Cohorts pointed out that by taking 16 Rogue levels and 4 Guild Thief prestige levels, you can take Leadership one more time, and massage the numbers in such a way as to get another 18th lvl Cohort. Of course that gives you another 163 followers, which is another 81.18 damage a round. But that would be cheesy.

Hopefully, the Epic Level Handbook will have a revised Leadership chart that accounts for Leadership Scores above 25. My minions and I look forward to such a development.

Edit: Fixed math error (Thanks CRGreathouse) and added text to Guild Thief.


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## CRGreathouse (Apr 27, 2002)

Burne said:
			
		

> *2952 Follower attacks (All followers take 2 attacks, and your 18 6th lvl warriors take 3)
> 147.6 Autohits of which 7.38 are crits
> 140.22 * 4.5 (Longbows: d8) + 7.38 * 13.5
> 630.99+199.26 = 830.25 damage per round. More damage if the target requires less than a natural 20 to hit.*




7.38*13.5 is 20.88, not 199.26... they're not dealing 27 damage per hit!

The total damage is just over 650, which isn't bad... if you roll up the followers with the 3d6 method and equip the stronger ones with mighty composite longbows (total bow cost: 238,100 gp), the damage increases by over 100* - even the Str 3 archers have a minimum of 1 point of damage (and an average of 1.75).

Note that an average of 1400 arrows can be retrived and reused after each volley, reducing the actual cost of arrows to 78 gp per volley, or 30 gp if the warriors all have the appropriate Craft skill and make their arrows.

* 101 points of extra damage.  This assumes a typical distribution of stats and all warriors of level 4+ increasing their Str by a point.


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## Burne (Apr 27, 2002)

Hmmm...

13.5 X 7.38 = 99.63

Earth's planar traits may have fluxed some. Math doesn't seem to work right any more. That's it....yeah.

Thanks for the math on the followers stats. I knew that it would only increase the damage, but I didn't have any method of calculating it on hand.


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## CRGreathouse (Apr 27, 2002)

Burne said:
			
		

> *Thanks for the math on the followers stats. I knew that it would only increase the damage, but I didn't have any method of calculating it on hand. *



Yeah, I'm the calculation guru here.  A favorite pasttime of mine is over-analyzing D&D with math.  I use a MS Excel, IE, and custom JavaScripts to solve these problems (see page 1, "MR. Ginsu").

In short: "Don't try this at home." 



			
				Burne said:
			
		

> *Hmmm...
> 
> 13.5 X 7.38 = 99.63
> 
> Earth's planar traits may have fluxed some. Math doesn't seem to work right any more. That's it....yeah.*




Now *that's* the kind of smackdown I'd like to see.

1. _Wish_ to change the way math works
2. Cast a 5-bolt _magic missile_ for and average of 3.5 damage per bolt
3. Total damage: 5 * 3.5 = 200 ---> Just enough for a smackdown!

How cool would that be?


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## Velenne (Apr 29, 2002)

Nobody has anything at all to say about my psion at the end of page 4?  <pouts>


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## DM with a vengence (Apr 29, 2002)

In reply to the Leadership Smackdown.

Make either yourself or one of your cohorts a bard, then get the musical instrament from Song & Silence (not sure, I think its an Alpenhorn) which allows you to use Bardic Music on all creatures within 1d10 miles, this covers your troops.

The bard at the horn inspires courage, increasing damage by 147.6


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## Victim (Apr 29, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Now that's the kind of smackdown I'd like to see.
> 
> ...




That would be cool until you bought a one copper drink with GP, and, instead of getting change, needed to pay 13000 more GP.


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## Glaurung (Apr 30, 2002)

*Arcane Smackdown Modified*

Don't know if this is allowed, but I'm going to try building on another's smackdown.  If this doesn't qualify as a submission, well who cares...its fun  

OK, so 1st you need the boosted evocation DC modifiers from Jeremy's initial post (see page one).  This pumps up the DC to around 33 I think. Also, he forgot an important spell called Greater Flow Enhancement (Book of Eldritch Might), which adds an additional +2 to DC.  

This uses mostly spells from Relics and Rituals and BoEM

Round 1) (Partial) Haste, (Haste partial) Two Minds, (quick spell) renewed focus.

I noticed the initial post had two quick spells during the 1st round, note that this is not allowed even with automatically quickened spells like renewed focus, so I dropped the quicked mirror image instead of replacing it.

Round 2) (Quickened) Iron Storm (R&R), (standard) cross of lightning (BoEM), (partial action) cross of lightning, (two minds) cross of lightning --all of which should oc course be empowered (then a level 7 spell).

All 12 lightning bolts (15d6, empowered) would be drawn into the iron storm (in addition to hitting those outside the storm they were aimed at) doing an average of 

3.5 x 15 (dice) x 1.5 (empowered) x 4 (cross) x 3 (spells) = 948 avg dmg

I did the math by hand, so it may be a little off.  Your enemies are immune to lightning you say? Worry not! Add energy substitution and flavor to taste (though I guess its a DM's call whther a substituted lightning bolt is still drawn into an Iron Storm, I would say yes, but whatever).

BTW, if you're a rune mage from Burok Torn (PrC), you can throw in another Cross of Lightning as a move-equivalent action.

I can't wait to see what can be done with Relics and Rituals 2  

-Michael Gill


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## Skwave (Apr 30, 2002)

*Thanks!*

I would like to thank you guys here for giving me the ideas for my local tournament match.

My Ftr8/Kishi Charger 4 was able to wipe the floor with the rest of the characters in the tourney using the item and feat sets that were suggested in this thread.

His final Smackdown attack
(1d8+27) x7

1d8 lance
+12 power attack
+2 spec
+3 lance bonus
+10 str bonus (belt, and 2 hand use)
 x3 power critical (just in case)
x4 kishi deadly charge
x2 rhino hide

a high attack bonus was gained by a Ioun stone with true strike spells; and a buckler of speed granted some decent armor and extra partial action.

So, don't think that this is for nothing, since some of us out there use the 'loopholes' that are exploited here!!


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## Jeremy (May 10, 2002)




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## James McMurray (May 10, 2002)

Glaurung: If you're using BoEM, you may as well use BoEM2, with Duplicity (Or Duplication, or whatever its called). It basically creates another duplicate of you, whch can have Two Minds, Haste, and Quickened spells itself, adding another 4 Ligtning Bolts.


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## Roland Delacroix (May 10, 2002)

*Roland's Ninja*

I posted this on the temporary test boards, but got little response.  So here it is again:

*Roland's Death Blow Ninja Motha****er!  v2.0*

Monk1- Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw
Monk2- Deflect Arrows
Ninja1- Ninja Dodge, Sneak Attack +1d6, Expert Tactician
Ninja2- Poison Use
Ninja3- Sneak Attack +2d6, ,Uncanny Dodge
Ninja4- Speed of Darkness (AKA Way of the Scorpion), Pincers and Tail
Ninja5-Sneak Attack +3d6,  Ninja Dodge +2
NinjaotCM1- Sneak Attack +4d6
Ninja Spy1- Exotic weapon, Ki Breath, Death Blow
NinjaotCM2- Improved Evasion, Kuji-Kiri
NinjaSpy2- Slow Fall (20'), Sneak Attack +5d6
NinjaotCM3- Sneak Attack +6d6, Stunning Fist
NinjSpy3- Exotic Weapon, Acrobatics (+10), Leap of the Clouds
NinjaotCM4- AC Bonus +1, Fast Climb, Silencing Attack
Ninja Spy4- Slow Fall (30’), Hide in Plain Site, Freeze the Life Blood


Fifteen levels, stats are 32 point buy.  Str- 10, Dex-14, Con-10, Int-16, Wis- 19 (23 with item), Cha- 10.

The monk levels swap out Stunning Attack for Combat Reflexes per the OA monk rules.  Max Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, other ninja skills to taste.  Add sneaky magic items to taste, possibly Cape of the Mountebank to escape?  Goggles of Night are an excellent choice.

1st round sneak in and get close to your target without him knowing and attack.  Should be easy with Hide in Plain Site.  Take your free attack from Expert Tactician, doing a Freeze the Life Blood attack.  If you have chosen you target well, like an arcane caster, he fails the Fort save and is both mute and Helpless for a round.  Use your partial action to Death Blow him, he makes a Fort save vs. the damage you do, somewhere around 30+ easy.  Likely he fails and dies.

Now you have a few choices in the first regular round.  If alone, hide and run away, successful assassination.  If there is an enemy close a Kusari gama should close the distance to reach him.  Likely you have initiative and he is Flat Footed.  Again, use your Expert Tactician attack to Freeze the Lifeblood and Standard Action to Death Blow him, then move or hide.  Use Ninja Dodge and hope you don’t get hit.  If its a regular combat just move close to your target in the partial round, utilizing Tumble to get past any obstructions.  With good Dex, Imp Initative and Speed of Darkness your Init bonus is like +9, you *will* go first.

2nd regular round (remember you are next to your target) use Pincers and Tail to feint as a move equivalent action.  Unless it’s a Bard with maxed Sense Motive, he will fail.  Expert Tactician kicks in, use the free attack to Freeze the Life Blood your target.  Fort save DC 21, so use this primarily on arcane casters and rogues.  Now you get your Standard Action on a helpless foe.  Good time to use Death Blow.  Scratch another rogue.

Next round run away, or feint and Hide.  Or fight, with Tumble you can get a flank to use Sneak Attack and your BAB is an awesome +13/+8/+3, or +11/+11/+6/+1 with Flurry.  Or use Intimidate; hell you just killed a powerful caster in a single round.  

That’s the level 15 version.  For later levels, finish off Ninja of the Crescent Moon.  Your sneak attack will increase, and all good saves, and BAB as well.  NotCM also gets Opportunist, Blindsight, and Gaseous Form.

Any comments welcome!  Let me know what you think.


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## Jeremy (May 10, 2002)

Very nice.  Sword & Fist errata somewhat nerfs the Ninja of the Crescent Moon, but I personally feel the class is not attractive enough to leave the rogue class with the errata.  So I ignore it.  

The modified version using your expert tactician attack to do the freezing the lifeblood attack so the standard action is free for the deathblow is very nicely done.

I'd throw in a monk's belt for haste to get you up there and give you extra AC and options, and also list the DC of the Freezing the Lifeblood attack, smackishly modified of course, to add to the amazement.

Bravo good sir.

(Edit: Nice timing on the multi-classing BTW.  Might want to note, though I don't think you should have to, that the Ninja class is from the Rokugan book, but it is available by itself for download--the class, not the book.)

*(Second Edit:  See?  What'd I tell ya?    Riga Mortus, the Ninja1 up there stands for the first level of the Ninja base class in the Rokugan 3e book put out by AEG.  Interesting class, that.  It's available for download on their website as a preview for the Rokugan book.)*


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## RigaMortus (May 10, 2002)

Question:  What is Ninja1 short for, and what book can I find it in?


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## James McMurray (May 10, 2002)

If you can find room for a single level of Wujen, the once per day boost to initiative should practically ensure you get round one init. Plus, the hide in shadows spell will help get in and out.


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## Jeremy (May 31, 2002)

Edited the answer into my above post RigaMortus.

*BUMP*


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## Sollir Furryfoot (May 31, 2002)

*The Path to a Higher DC*

If you use Relics and Rituals, why not use Creature Compendium 2?

"Bloodless" (Template from CC2) Human Sor 6/Shadow Adept 9/Archmage 3

Charisma: Start at 18, +4 mod, +6 item, +5 wish, +5 tome (forgot if wishes and tomes stacked or not )=38 Charisma

Feats: Shadow Weave Magic, Spell Prodigy, Spell Focus (Illusion, Necromancy, or Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Illusion, Necromancy, or Enchantment), 1 Metamagic Feat, Skill Focus: Spellcraft, Spell Focus in one other school.+All other Shadow Weave feats

Archmage Powers: Spell Power +1-3

Bloodless template allows you to drain charisma from people, 1d3 points a round (permanent), gaining 1 temporary charisma point, doing this on the average commoner this will require about 8 commoners + 1 more every day to mantain a charisma of 76.

DC with Chosen School from Illusion, Enchantment, or Necromancy: 10+33 (Charisma)+6 (Archmage Spell Power)+3 (Shadow Adept Spell Power)+4 (Greater Spell Focus)+1 (Spellcasting Prodigy)+1 (Shadow Weave Magic)+Spell level

Making the DC for a 9th level spell 67, excluding any other spell enhancers and the like, although of course the charisma is temporary, it lasts a long time (you lose 1 point a day, but you can drain it back up) and you're probably a very evil character 

Edit-With Spell Enhancer and the two doses of that drug, the 9th level spell above would be DC 72

Also, Adding Old Age Bonuses you could get a base of 41 charisma, which, when doubled would be 82 instead making the DC for a 9th level spell w/o extras 70, with 75 


Further Edit-Okies, forgot if the inherent bonuses stacked which I even stated myself, so thats 72 charisma, 80 with that plate of command, making the DCs 69 and 74, respectively   Might I note that most of the wizards who use Red Wizard PrCs as well as the Shadow Adept PrC are usually evil as well


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## Jeremy (May 31, 2002)

Hmmmm...  Maybe for a bad guy, but then you wouldn't want the DC that high.

Oh yeah, and for smackdown's, don't forget the mithral buckler of command.  Since you aren't proficient in it, you'll take the armor check penalty (0) to attacks, damage, and a lot of skills, and you'll have to check your arcane spell failure chance (0%) since it's armor, but you get +4 competence bonus to Charisma, so I think it's worth it.  

Sheez.  I need to read better.  Thanks CRG.  Tome = Inherent, Wish = Inherent.  No, they don't stack.


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## CRGreathouse (May 31, 2002)

*Re: The Path to a Higher DC*



			
				Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Charisma: Start at 18, +4 mod, +6 item, +5 wish, +5 tome (forgot if wishes and tomes stacked or not )=38 Charisma*




_CRGreathouse coughs loudly._


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 11, 2002)

Fixed   Anyways, new proposal for Path to a Higher DC

Shugenja from the Phoenix clan (OA) with around 10 levels or more, decently high charisma, leadership.

Just make sure all your followers are from the phoenix clan and have the Spellcaster Support feat, and make them all take 10 to give you +2 DC per follower...just watch out for those fireballs...


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## hong (Jun 11, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Fixed   Anyways, new proposal for Path to a Higher DC
> 
> Shugenja from the Phoenix clan (OA) with around 10 levels or more, decently high charisma, leadership.
> 
> Just make sure all your followers are from the phoenix clan and have the Spellcaster Support feat, and make them all take 10 to give you +2 DC per follower...just watch out for those fireballs... *




Sheesh!!1!! As if supa-DC man is going to waste a DC of 60+ on something as wimpy as a fireball. Phantasmal killer, polymorph other (into baby seal), circle of death, slay living, etc, is where it's at, baby.


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## DM_Matt (Jun 12, 2002)

hong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Sheesh!!1!! As if supa-DC man is going to waste a DC of 60+ on something as wimpy as a fireball. Phantasmal killer, polymorph other (into baby seal), circle of death, slay living, etc, is where it's at, baby. *




I tihnk that he means that super-DC man should watch out for people fireballing his groups of followers with the spellcaster support feat.


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## DM_Matt (Jun 12, 2002)

*Legendary Bears Smack*

L20 Druid
----------------------------
Items: Greater Rod of Chain Spell (243k)
Boots of Speed (8k)
Hand of Glory(7.2k)
3 Rings of Animal Friendship@L20 (Need to extrapolate cost, but since the L12 base ones are 9500 each, say 50k
----------------------------
Animal Friends: 4 Legendary Bears (8 if defending home)
Takes three rounds of prep, but the bears are far from helpless in the meantime.
Round One: Activate Boots, Chained Animal Growth
Round Two: Chained Nature's Avatar (L9+Rod), Chained Nature's Favor(L5)
Round Three: Chained Triple Empowered Might of the Oaks (L9+Rod), partial acton open.

Animal Growthed Legendary Bear:
Hp: 20d8+180 (270av)
Armor: 10+14 NA -3Size+1Dex = 22 AC
Dmg 2d8+17, 4d8+8
Bab  +30,  +25
Scores: 44 12 28 2 16 12

+20d8 temp hp
+haste
+Ignore Armor
+10 morale attack and dmg
+10 luck attack and dmg
+10 enhancement dmg
+10 enhancement Str
-5 Enhancement Dex
------------------------------
HP: 360
Armor: 19
Bab/Dmg: 2d8+52 (+55/+55/+55) 4d8+41(+47)
-------------
The four bears, (who can also improved grab, btw), deal:  
4x (10d8+203) = 4x (213-283) = 852-1132 per round, at a very high BaB...none of that power attack not a prayer in the world of hitting high level creatures stuff.

As I said, defending home, the Druid cn muster twice as many bears, and can still effect them all with his spells.

Anyone got a good idea for that final partial action?


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## Vurt (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Legendary Bears Smack*



> _Originally posted by DM_Matt _*
> Anyone got a good idea for that final partial action? *




Moons his opponents? *cough*

-- inVurt


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## Dark Dragon (Jun 13, 2002)

*Force of nature*

Another druid smack down: turning the druid into a spell casting combat machine...Magic items and companions aren't needed...

We need a Bbn 1 / Drd 18 with at least WIS 19. Average HP: 140. BAB is 14 / 9 / 4.

Feats: Multiattack, Natural Spell

The druid casts the following spells per round:

1. _Shape change_ (lvl 9): morphing into a legendary tiger with STR 32, DEX 18, CON 24, AC 23. Attacks: 2x claw, 2d6+11, bite, 2d8+5, 2x rake 2d6+5

2. _Animal growth_ (lvl 5): doubling HD (to 38), hp rise to 280 (average), BAB is (size-corrected) 27 / 17 / 7. STR 40, DEX 14, CON 28, AC 23. +76 hp due to higher CON (2x 38), we get about 355 hp. Claws: 2d8+15, bite: 4d6+7, rakes: 2d8+7.

3. _Nature's Avatar_  (lvl 9): + 18d8 hp (+81 hp avg.) + 10 morale bonus to attack & damage + a haste effect. We have then: 430 hp, BAB 37 / 37 / 27 / 17 / 10 / 5 (the last two for the rakes), AC 27. Claws: 2d8+25, bite: 4d6+17, rakes: 2d8+17. The second spell this round is: _Nature's Favor_ (lvl 3): +9 luck bonus to attack & damage: Claws: 2d8+34, bite: 4d6+26, rakes: 2d8+26. BAB 46 / 46 / 36 / 26 / 19 / 14.

4. _Aura of Vitality_ (lvl 7): +4 enhancement to STR, DEX, CON: HP are at nearly 510, AC 29, STR 44, DEX 18, CON 32. Claws: 2d8+36, bite: 4d6+27, rakes: 2d8+27. Second spell: _Brilliant Aura_ (lvl 7): +9 enhancement to attack & damage...we get: BAB 55 / 55 / 45 / 35 / 28 / 23, claws: 2d8+45, bite: 4d6+36, rakes: 2d8+36.

At the beginning of round 5, the druid warps in his rage, increasing STR to 48, CON to 36, AC drops to 27, HP reach nearly 580. The final damage is: 3x claws (haste!): 2d8+47, bite: 4d6+37, 2x rakes: 2d8+37. The BAB is (STR included!): 74 / 74 / 64 / 54 / 47 / 42.
Assuming a pounce attack and a hit for all attacks, we get on the average 311 points of damage.

Klauth (CR 25) would hold his ground nearly three rounds against one CR 19 druid


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## Jeremy (Jun 13, 2002)

Unfortunately Klauth can fly and cast greater dispelling or just strafe you to death with fly by breath attacks.

Also, given the short duration of nature's avatar, aura of vitality, and animal growth you've got at least a round and a half of on the spot preparation unless you've got a ring of spell storing with a teleport spell in it, well no, that wouldn't work because it'd absorb into you...

Does shapechange grant you (Ex) extraordinary abilities of the creature?  If not, pounce may be out as well..

But it is a very nice combination otherwise.


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## Dark Dragon (Jun 13, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Unfortunately Klauth can fly and cast greater dispelling or just strafe you to death with fly by breath attacks.
> 
> Also, given the short duration of nature's avatar, aura of vitality, and animal growth you've got at least a round and a half of on the spot preparation unless you've got a ring of spell storing with a teleport spell in it, well no, that wouldn't work because it'd absorb into you...
> 
> ...




You're right. I just thought to attack him in his lair. Against his breath, _Energy Immunity: Fire_  (level 6) would help, against death spells, use Death Ward  (level 5). To make the preparation unnoticed, add a level of a divine disciple to the druid, have Mielikki as a patron and take Travel as a prestige domain: the druid gets _Teleport without error..._  
_Shape change_  grants all abilities of the chosen form except spell-like and supernatural ones. Pounce is extraordinary.


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## Dark Dragon (Jun 13, 2002)

Oh, I remembered that Klauth has a very high DC for a save against his frightful presence (something about 50...). Ok, let's take some other monster...or get a spell against fear


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## Shovle Warrior (Jun 18, 2002)

check this out

Mr. Bigs the half orc version 2.5
Monte rgr1, bbn3, brd1, dgd10, fzb5
1: power attack, cleave
3: extra raging
6:destructive rage
9: intimidating rage
12: focus huge greatsword
15: I crit huge greatsword
18:  power crit huge greatsword
stats
32 point buy
str: 20 (18) eventually 25(+5 from stat bonus’s by lvl)
dex: 14
con: 16
int: 8 (10)
wis: 8
cha: 10 (12)
items
 adamantine +1 flaming, vicious, sonic, thundering, corrosive huge greatsword of speed (209000gp)
+6 belt of giant strength (32000gp)
boots of speed (8000gp)
gauntlets of ogre power (2000gp)
manual of gainful exercise +5 (137500gp)
scabbard of keen edges (15000gp)
Headband of perfect excellence (180000gp)
Manual of bodily health +4 (110000gp)
Potion of bull strength (300gp)
Potion of heroism (900gp)
Ring of blinking (30000gp)
Ring of protection +4 (32000gp)
Mithril shirt
11900 gp (couldn’t find a use for it)
bab: +16, +11, +6, +1
hp: 20d12+120: 151-360 (avg 246) 
Hp while raging and frenzying: +100
Rage/frenzy duration: 9 rounds +2 rounds if raging, +3 in frenzying (both stack)
str after mods (assuming a role of 5 on potion of bull str) 61(+25) (+6 belt, +2 gauntlets, +5 manual, +6 headband, +5 potion, +4 dragon dis, +8 half-dragon)
add rage and frenzy: 71(+30) (+4 rage, +6 frenzy)
total attack bonus  67/62/57/52 (+30 str, +15 two handing, +1 focus, +2 heroism, +3 weapon, +16 base)
Total damage possible per attack 56-100 (avg74) (+30 str, +15 two handing, +3 weapon, +2d8 (weapon), +1d6 fire, +1d6 sonic, +1d6 electric, +1d6 acid, +2d6 vicious (1d6 to wielder))



7 attacks per round 67/67/67/67/62/57/52 (4 base, +1 haste, +1 frenzy, +1 speed)
assuming all hit
Dmg per round 392-700 (avg 518) 
Crit damage range 134-164 (avg 146)
Also consider
Power crit lets them declare one attack to be an auto crit
Crit range of 17-20 (20 % chance of a crit)
Avg of 1.4 crits/round (not factoring power crit)
With power crit, 1 crit auto, and1.2 crit’s/round on other attacks
With that…..
Assuming 2 crit’s: non crits= 224-400 dmg/round: crit’s = 224-400 damage/round
Dmg per round: 448-800 dmg/round !!!!!!!!
AND
Not to mention the 3/2 power attack rate (for every 2 subtracted, 3 added) from lvl 5 frenzied berserker, and that +47/47/47/47/42/37/32 to attack is still really good. You can safely add +30 to all the previously listed damage rolls and still have an amazing chance to hit. 
Now MR. Bigs’s stats at lvl 20 (not adding bonus’s from items other than tome’s)
Str: 42 (+16)
Dex: 14 (+2)
Con: 22 (+6)
Int: 10 (+0)
Wis: 8 (-1)
Cha:12 (+1)
With all items (not potions)
Str: 55 (+22)
Dex: 20 (+5)
Con: 22 (+6)
Int: 10 (+0)
Wis: 14 (+2)
Cha: 12 (+1)
Other things
Ac: 30 (+4 armor, +5 dex, +7 natural, +4 ring)
Ac while raging and frenzying: 24
Init: +5
Rage 3/day, frenzy 3/day

Im currently working on version 3.0 which will dual wield two huge greatswords (monkey grip feat). enjoy this for now. 
and the stats for the Monte cook ranger can be found at
http://www.montecook.com/images/Ranger2.pdf


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## Shovle Warrior (Jun 18, 2002)

A little thing i forgot to mention. My build CAN be pulled off using the phb ranger with no statistical changes. I use monte's in my campains, so i used it here. Without monte's the feat progression looks like this.
1: power attack
3: cleave
6: destructive rage
9: intimidating rage
12: focus huge greatsword
15: i crit huge greatsword
18: power crit huge greatsword
And finally skills only matter before lvl 6 when you gain a lvl of dragon dis. even with -1 int mod, you still get enough to buy the stuff required for it.
1st: 2 for speak dragonis, 4 to bring knoledge arcana to 2.0
2-4 raise Knoledge arcana to 4.0
at fifth, bard points do the rest.


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## Jeremy (Jun 18, 2002)

Let's see, in order...

20th level characters are generally discouraged as they rarely get the chance to play and 760,000 gp in gear makes them inflated examples.  16th is generally a better comparison.

Gauntlets of Ogre Power are an enhancement bonus and do not stack with Belts of Giant Strength or the Headband of Perfect Excellence or the Potion of Bull's Strength.

Dragon Disciple HD increases only increase dragon disciple hit dice, additionally they do not work retroactively.

Rage grants 2 hp per HD for only 40 more hp, not 100.

Dragon Disciple's final ability does not grant an additional +8 to strength.  You get what's listed in the chart and that's it according to the Sage's rotating ruling o' the month.

Haste does not stack with speed.

These are simple to correct though.

Also, I might add, as this doesn't seem to be presented as a smackdown but more of a character build, I might point out that this character's will save is horrendous and as such he poses a considerable threat to his party as will saves affect his control of his frenzy.  It also means he's susceptible to charms, suggestions, and domination, not to mention fear, and many other will save based attacks.  Some of that money would have been better spent pumping wisdom or saves.  Though again, having 760,000 gp to throw a round unbalances the example.

Try toning it down to 16th level, reassessing gear for non-stackable items, and editing the post to reflect your changes.  It'll be better received.


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## Shovle Warrior (Jun 18, 2002)

Sorry bout those confusions. I forgot to mention that he works under the house rules my players ALWAYs play under and wont fluxuate from. The poor will doesnt matter much because hes a solo villan who drops in and attacks casters first. The 1d12 hit die was from half dragon gained at lvl 10 dragon dis not from the dragon dis hit die increases (it upped all the d10's from dragon dis to d12) and the dragon dis hit die increases affect all previously gained hti die, official ruling on in the errata helps me there. The feat aquisition was to show that he could be pulled off (i see build all the time that are technically impossible from many high lvl feats). Honestly, he's built to show the pc's how unbalancing their own house rules can be when used against them


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## Jeremy (Jun 18, 2002)

Unfortunately I'm afraid you are mistaken.



> _From the Official D&D Frequently Asked Question Guide:
> pg 74, bottom right_
> 
> *At 1st, 4th, and 6th level,  the  dragon  disciple  prestige class  grants  a  Hit  Die  increase that makes your Hit Dice bigger.  The  ability  description  specifically  says  it  is  not retroactive, but what about future levels? If, for example, a 1st-level dragon disciple takes a level of sorcerer, is that Hit Die increased to a d6? If so, what happens if the dragon disciple  chooses  to  take  a  level  of  fighter?  Is  that  Hit  Die changed in any way?*
> ...




As you can see, 10 levels grants you 3d6+2d8+5d10 because as clarified, the final ability of the class doesn't change your HD, you only get the abilities listed on the chart in Tome & Blood.

So your character would for instance be, 1d8 (Monte Cook Ranger) +3d12 (Barbarian) +1d6 (Bard) +3d6 (1 to 3 Dragon Disciple) +2d8 (4 to 5 Dragon Disciple) +5d10 (6 to 10 Dragon Disciple) +5d12 (Frenzied Berserker).

And as for house rules, as it is impossible for everyone's house rules to be known, understood, and agreed upon by every gaming group, they are generally excluded from these posts so everyone can see the same rules.  If all bonuses stacking is one of your house rules, you might run into some severe opposition on these boards.

Up to you if you want to edit it though, it's your post.


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## Aloïsius (Jun 18, 2002)

Let's play with metamagic


1) Empower smackdown
Wizard 8 Incantatrix 8
feats: empower spell, energy admixture, craft rod

Cone of Cold (15D6 base damage), empower three time (improved metamagic) +1 (rod of empowerment > average 15*3.5*3 = 157
* + 15 D6 Fire damage (instant energy admixture) (average 15*3.5 = 52.5)
Average Total = 157+52.5= 209.5. One round, no preparation.






2)Chain smackdown
Wizard 5 Shadow adept 1 Red wizard 10 

Feats (+requirement : tatoo focus, three metamagic/creation, shadow weave...) Spellcasting prodigy, chain spell, spell focus enchantment, greater spell focus enchantment, spell focus necromancy, spell penetration, greater spell penetration

Rod of Chaining (greater)

**************************Preparation***************************************
Cast Polymorph Any Object on you (Solar, I think it must work, because a 8 th level spell must be able to polymorph you into a 22hd creature. I know great wyrm have a greater int, but I don't know if this work. If yes, all you have to do is prepare a contingency spell to polymorph (simple polymorph, not "any object!) you back in a human shaped form). This give you a base 23 int (or 32 if the great gold wyrm is elligible...) (so don't waste your increase point here, put them in cha or wis!)

Cast empowered*3 fox cuning, gaining 1d4+1 *2.5 bonus to int (average +9, so 32int or 41 with gold dragon...)

Wear boot of speed 

***********************execution**********************************************
Cast Spell Enhancer (free action)

Cast Chain (with the rod) Nybor's Wrathful Castigation:
Base Save DC is 18
+12 (or +16) for int (don't forget spellcasting prodigy)
+2 spell Enhancer
+5 spell Power
+4 Greater Spell Focus
+1Shadow weave
Final save DC is 42 (or 46) for your first target, 38 (or 42 for 16 secondary targets)

Your spellcaster level to overcome SR is 16 +4 greater spell penetration + 1 (shadow weave magic) +5 (spell power +5) = 26
You can kill up to 17 creature with this one. Those who have a fort save high enough to survive must make a will save or be dazed for 16 rounds (and suffer a -4 penalty to their saving throws...). That's enough to kill with 95% chance of success one Old Red Dragon + 16 Adult Red dragons with one spell. (total HP =378+ 16*253 = 4426. 95% *4426 = 4207...). Yes, I don't think they will all be within 30 ft of each other, alas...


Of course, when you reach level 17, you will be able to cast a chained dominate monster...


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## Jeremy (Jun 18, 2002)

Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *Average Total = 157+52.5= 209.5. One round, no preparation.*




And then you do it again with your extra partial action!  Muwa ha ha!



			
				Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *Cast Polymorph Any Object on you (Solar, I think it must work, because a 8 th level spell must be able to polymorph you into a 22hd creature. I know great wyrm have a greater int, but I don't know if this work. If yes, all you have to do is prepare a contingency spell to polymorph (simple polymorph, not "any object!) you back in a human shaped form). This give you a base 23 int (or 32 if the great gold wyrm is elligible...) (so don't waste your increase point here, put them in cha or wis!)*




No can do.  Polymorph Any Object reads as Polymorph Self, no outsiders, and nothing with more HD than your caster level.  I'd say the 15 HD cap on the caster level though wouldn't count as 8th level spells have a higher cap than 4th level spells.

In any case, polymorph changes Str, Dex, and Con.  It has no effect on Int, Wis, or Cha, so neither form would be beneficial.


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## Aloïsius (Jun 18, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *
> 
> No can do.  Polymorph Any Object reads as Polymorph Self, no outsiders, and nothing with more HD than your caster level.  I'd say the 15 HD cap on the caster level though wouldn't count as 8th level spells have a higher cap than 4th level spells.
> 
> In any case, polymorph changes Str, Dex, and Con.  It has no effect on Int, Wis, or Cha, so neither form would be beneficial. *




1)From PHB "unlike polymorph other, polymorph any object does grant the creature the score of it's new form"
2)The spell has not been updated in Tome and Blood, and I'm not sure if he has the same limitation than polymorph other, since you can change a mammal into a piece of wood...Bah. Just cast Fiendform, this will give you the outsider type, then cast polymorph other (planetar, 22 int) on yourself. This will be OK I think.


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## Aloïsius (Jun 19, 2002)

Oh, and the max 1HD per caster level is not a problem : as a red wizard you have the circle magic ability...hummm... I will look at this one more closely, I'm quiet sure there is a "smack" opportunity with this thing.


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## Aloïsius (Jun 19, 2002)

Circle leader smackdown.
Wizard 6 Red wizard 10 
feats : leadership>4. choose fellow red wizard. With a high cha, you will be able to have 4 cohort of approximatively 13th level (I haven't done the math). You then have to find 5 other red wizard, perhaps the cohort of your cohort. Let's say they are level 11.
Now everyone cast a single spell, of maximum level. That's 8 (you) + 4*7 (your cohort)+ 5*6 (your cohort cohort) = 66 circle bonus level.

Prepare Otiluke freezing sphere. (Level 6 spell) . You can empower it 7 time, this cost you 14 circle bonus level. Expend 4 more circle bonus level to raise your caster level up to 20. 
When you will cast otiluke freezing sphere on a target (if you do not mis the ranged touch attack), use a rod of empowerment. That's 8 empower spell, thus your 16th level character will be able to deal 20d6 *5 =100d6 cold damage, without save. On average =350. Not bad.

Let's try with horrid wilting !
Since the spell base level is 8, you can empower it only 7 time. This will cost you 12 bonus level. But you can increase your caster level up to 25, by spending 9 circle bonus level rather than four.

So will inflict to your targets (no two of whom may be more than 60 ft apart)
25d8 * 4.5 damage, fortitude half. On average 506 damage, 253 on a successfull save. I think you may prepare one more like this...
Sweet, no ?


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## Shains (Jun 20, 2002)

*check this but it's kinda cheating*

I know this MAY have been posted but I don't wanna read 5 pages . Ok take a psion take the feat body fuel get as high stats as you can in everything burn it all except str leave that at 18 or something, use the power on the wizards website (they have new powers) called greater body adjustment it heals all temprary ability damage it takes, I think, 18 PP so use that over and over and over and over till you have hundreds and hundreds then use psychofeedback throw it all in strength attack and POOF! no more tarrasque


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 20, 2002)

Shains: Yes, I believe it was posted somewhere.  Unfortunately, the errata has limited the amount of burned ability points a day...


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## reapersaurus (Jun 20, 2002)

Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *Circle leader smackdown.
> 
> Let's try with horrid wilting !
> 
> Sweet, no ? *



Let me sum up :
You have a 16th level caster, 4 13th, and 5 11th, and all they get is 350 or 506 damage in a round?


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## Darkness (Jun 21, 2002)

Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *Circle leader smackdown.
> Wizard 6 Red wizard 10
> feats : leadership>4. choose fellow red wizard. With a high cha, you will be able to have 4 cohort of approximatively 13th level (I haven't done the math). You then have to find 5 other red wizard, perhaps the cohort of your cohort. Let's say they are level 11.
> ...*



Where's the smackdown in this, anyway? All you're doing is using the circle leader ability with a few dudes of somewhat high levels.
Also, I've got to agree with reapersaurus: For the effort you're putting into this, the end result leaves much to be desired...


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## Shains (Jun 21, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Shains: Yes, I believe it was posted somewhere.  Unfortunately, the errata has limited the amount of burned ability points a day... *



Darn i need to read it more oh well it was a small (ya right) loophole that's now closed up.

P.S. well maybe i can be of some help: take samurai levels to get iaijutsu focus put all the skill points you can into it take quick draw and get a ring of improved invis or blinking whatever makes your opponent flat footed roll a natural 20 and WHOO!!


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## Aloïsius (Jun 21, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Let me sum up :
> You have a 16th level caster, 4 13th, and 5 11th, and all they get is 350 or 506 damage in a round? *




No. Since you have a lot of bonus level left, you can recast the same spell many times. And don't forget that the effect of circle magic last for 24 hour : so after loading yourself the morning, you can use devastating attacks anytime before the next. The smack is the use of circle casting ability + leadership feat. (and by the way, nothing forbid to ask your cohort to hurl a few spells to help in an attack. 506 damage to several targets is good for me, especially if you cast twice the same spell with your extra partial actio, plus another with a quicken spell. You could end in the 1300 + damage, fort half in one round.


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## Darkness (Jul 9, 2002)

My friends, there's a thread in GD that possibly might prove interesting to you.

It's about the importance of magic items for a character's power.

Maybe you'll get a creative idea or two out of it - or maybe you can help the good people in that thread a bit with your well-honed knowledge of the rules and how to exploit them. 

- Darkness


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## Plane Sailing (Jul 10, 2002)

Shains said:
			
		

> *
> Darn i need to read it more oh well it was a small (ya right) loophole that's now closed up.
> 
> P.S. well maybe i can be of some help: take samurai levels to get iaijutsu focus put all the skill points you can into it take quick draw and get a ring of improved invis or blinking whatever makes your opponent flat footed roll a natural 20 and WHOO!! *




Sorry, but this won't work. Imp Invis or blinking denies their Dex bonus, but doesn't leave them flatfooted. That is an important distinction between iaijutsu focus and sneak attack.


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## Grommilus (Jul 11, 2002)

Can't believe I didn't see an arcane trickter smackdown, it's really easy, can do it with NO items =)

halfling rogue 3, wizard 5, arcane trixter 8, level 16 char

spells required:  haste, lesser acid orb, improved invis (or suprise)
feats required: twin spell, weapon focus (energy missle) spell specialization (energy missle), point blank shot, extend spell, persistant spell.

tatic:  persisted improved invis and haste on self.  memorize alot of twined lesser acid orbs, or other energy versions.  first round of combat cast 2 twinned lesser acid orbs at 30 feet or closer (haste partial for the other lesser acid orb)  
to hit is +8 bab, +5 dex(easy to get with persistant spell) +1 size, +1 weapon focus, +1 PBS= +16 ranged touch(not too shaby, considering no dex mod to ac cause of invis)

twined lesser acid orb deals [1d8(acid) +1(PBS) +2(spell specialization) + 6d6 (sneak attack)] x 10(number of orbs) x 2(number of castings)

which comes out to 20d8 +60 + 120d6 (fort save DC 16 or so, might as well assume all but one saves, so 19d8/2 + 1d8) (one orb on average will miss (if touch ac is 18 or less, with no dex))

average 42.75 +4.5 + 57 + 399 = 504.15 damage.  not so shaby.

Repeat until out of twined acid orbs, switch to non metamagiced ones for half total damage, if target can see invis, blind them =)

I love arcane trixters =) (ps, this is the only halfling I will play)

Grom


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## Grommilus (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: Force of nature*



			
				Dark Dragon said:
			
		

> *Another druid smack down: turning the druid into a spell casting combat machine...Magic items and companions aren't needed...
> 
> We need a Bbn 1 / Drd 18 with at least WIS 19. Average HP: 140. BAB is 14 / 9 / 4.
> 
> ...




Why shapechange into a crappy lengedary animal when the Tarrasque is at your disposial with shapechange? (i think he falls under unique dragon types that is mentioned as being included, after unique dragon, unique magical beast?)

as for that, a level 48 epic level tammer of the beasts can BEFRIEND the tarrasque =)  he even buffs him up with class abilities =)


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## novyet (Jul 11, 2002)

Grommilus said:
			
		

> *Can't believe I didn't see an arcane trickter smackdown, it's really easy, can do it with NO items =)
> 
> halfling rogue 3, wizard 5, arcane trixter 8, level 16 char
> 
> ...



I thought that the orb spells worked like shuriken, and only the first one got the Sneak Attack Damage?


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## Jeremy (Jul 11, 2002)

Grommilus said:
			
		

> *twined lesser acid orb deals [1d8(acid) +1(PBS) +2(spell specialization) + 6d6 (sneak attack)] x 10(number of orbs) x 2(number of castings)*




Unfortunately, I believe elemental orb spells as well as flame arrows and other spells that are more than one attack in a single spell only allow sneak attack damage on the first attack.  So the first spell of 10 orbs would have 6d6 sneak attack, as would the second, for 12.

It's like shuriken.  You only get sneak attack, point blank shot, weapon specialization, etc. to damage on one of the three.  Though I always liked the shotgun feel of a rogue with two fistfulls of darts (or acid orbs, or charged playing cards) doing 6d6 sneak attack with every one.  But Skip thought that was a little unbalanced.


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## Grommilus (Jul 11, 2002)

> Unfortunately, I believe elemental orb spells as well as flame arrows and other spells that are more than one attack in a single spell only allow sneak attack damage on the first attack. So the first spell of 10 orbs would have 6d6 sneak attack, as would the second, for 12.
> 
> It's like shuriken. You only get sneak attack, point blank shot, weapon specialization, etc. to damage on one of the three. Though I always liked the shotgun feel of a rogue with two fistfulls of darts (or acid orbs, or charged playing cards) doing 6d6 sneak attack with every one. But Skip thought that was a little unbalanced.




Ah, but the reasoning behind shuriken is that you make one attack roll for all 3 shuriken.  The lesser energy orb requires one attack roll for every orb.  Also, I don't get Dragon, so I don't read Skip's advice.  Until there is official errata for the Tome and Blood, I'm going by my sneak attack arcane trixter god =)  Besides, if a rogue with full attack can get 4+ attacks easily, my arcane boy should be able to get his orbs off =)

But, if indeed it is as you say, lemme work up a new one.  The arcane trixter is increadably easy to abuse.


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## Grommilus (Jul 11, 2002)

WOOT, got one =) took 3 minutes to think up =)

The truely funny thing is, this method is usable by the same arcane trixter with only minor mods =)

halfling rogue 3, wizard(conjuration) 5, arcane trixter 8, level 16 char

spells required: haste, acid orb, improved invis, cat's grace, fox's cunning

feats required: repeat spell, weapon focus (energy missle) spell specialization (energy missle), point blank shot, extend spell, persistant spell, spell focus conjur, greater spell focus conjur.

tatic: persisted improved invis and haste, extended cats grace, foxes cunning on self. memorize (at least) 2 repeated energy orbs (cold and fire are good cause they make the next round easier), or other energy versions. suprise round of combat cast 2 reapeated energy orbs at 30 feet or closer (haste partial for the other energy orb) , next round move and cast 2 more energy orbs (not repeated, outa spell power)
to hit is +8 bab, +5 dex(easy to get with extended cat's grace) +1 size, +1 weapon focus, +1 PBS= +16 ranged touch(not too shaby, considering no dex mod to ac cause of invis)

Assume 18 base INT, plus 4 from fox's cunning, +4 from level ups =26, +8 mod

damage on suprise [15d6 energy orb plus 6d6 sneak attack +1 PBS +2 spell specialization] x 2 for 2 orbs. Fort DC 26 (yah yah, not that great sigh.. still think lesser orbs get sneak on every one, cause they all take an attack roll)
first round, coming from the same source (didn't expect that, didja, the halfling says cause he moved) repeat with normal energy orbs. (4 acid orb spells are taking effect this round, no items used, I love it)

average damage from each barrage, 153 assuming no saves or misses, full effect 459.

if saves successful, damage is only 292.5 BOOOOO.. time to figure out how to get 7.5  more damage....  even numbers = good.

Not as good as before, took a suprise round to clear 200.. sigh...

Grom (whose halfling got nerfed by Skip)

edit: if there are 15 oponents within 30 feet of each other, 165 to each, if no saves succesful =P  but I'd be better off using repeated fireballs and a pair of cones of cold to deal 140 fire and 105 cold for a total of 245 [and don't you DARE nerf my acid orb affecting 15 different oponents getting sneak attack on all of them, cause a fireball is better =P ]


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## Jeremy (Jul 11, 2002)

There's one other minor flaw that may or may not have an effect on how many preparation rounds you need.

Only spells with a personal range or spells with a fixed emanation range from you (i.e. 60 ft cone of detect evil) can be made persistent.  Haste and Improved Invisibility can not be made persistent.  I think they made it that way on purpose to negate spells like fly, improved invisibility, haste, etc.  Though I wonder if invisibility sphere would work...

'appreciate all the hard work though.  Tough job coming up with smackdowns.


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## Grommilus (Jul 11, 2002)

check this out, a non magic 16th level character with over 200 points in one round =)

bare with me here, this is gonna using a ton of broken rules =)

character is human fighter 6, cleric(war domain, longsword), cavalier 2, singh rager 7(singh rager is OA)

18 str leveld up to 22. lion's fury adds 4 more, for total 26

feats (the important bit) 7 normal, 4 fighter, 1 weapon focus cleric 
improved crit (heavy lance), improved crit (scythe) power critical (heavy lance), power critical (scythe), power attack, spirited charge, weapon focus (heavy lance), weapon focus (longsword), mounted combat, ride-by-attack, iron will, ki shout.

whew.. that was alot of feats...

k, if you follow the feats you probably got it.  

use swiftness of the lioness, lion's fury

power attack 5 attack for dmg, deadly charge with lance (used twohanded, one handed is for wimps), power critical it, ride by.

free dismount(ride check dc 20, got it), drop lance 

partial action: charge again, draw scythe mid charge, power critical it.  lion's pounce (and roaring strike for fun).

assuming masterwork lance and scythe.

attack bonus with lance = 15(bab) + 1(cavilier bonus) +1(weapon focus) + 8 (str) + 2(charge) -5(power attack)= 22(pretty damn good if i say so myself)

attack bonus with scythe same as lance -2(no cavilier, I dismounted, no focus) = 20.

damage with lance = x4 for deadly charge, power critical so x6
d8+17 x 6= 129! woot one hit, over halfway there

damage with scythe = x4 for power critical, so 2d4 + 17 x 4= 88,

total 217!!! in 2 attacks

roaring strike and 2 more attacks at +15 and +10 from lion's pounce are just ICING =)

I love singh rager =)  I'm convinced i can brake the 200 limit with a forsaker/singh rager glaive monkey grip duel wielder too, just need to work on it =)

this forum is so much more fun without magic items =)

Grom,  master of poorness (lack o magic items)


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## CRGreathouse (Jul 11, 2002)

Grommilus said:
			
		

> *attack bonus with lance = 15(bab) + 1(cavilier bonus) +1(weapon focus) + 8 (str) + 2(charge) -5(power attack)= 22(pretty damn good if i say so myself)
> 
> attack bonus with scythe same as lance -2(no cavilier, I dismounted, no focus) = 20. *




I have to say, an attack bonus of +20 to +22 at 16th level just doesn't excite me.  A quick survey of CR 16 monsters gave an average AC of just over 30, making 35%-45% of your attacks misses.  This is just for CR = average level attacks, which are supposed to be easy.  If you want to really put 200+ points of damage to use, it needs to be on a harder monster, with CR of perhaps 18 or 19 and a round of prep time (raising the AC higher, no doubt).

Even "as is", an AC of 30 lowers average damage from 217 to 132 (not including the pounce).


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## reapersaurus (Jul 11, 2002)

1) The singh rager can be MUCH better done for a smackdown that that.
I haven't worked my version fully out yet, but i remember someone putting one up earlier that (IIRC) easily beat this last one.

2) Grom: look at the Shuriken Smackdown if you want to see massive-damage based off flinging lots of stuff.


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## Grommilus (Jul 11, 2002)

I think you guys missed my NO MAGIC ITEMS part =) hard to clear 200 hp with a legal, no magic character =)

anyhoo


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## Grommilus (Jul 11, 2002)

as to the shuriken, it's been over ruled officially.  So no dice, bud.


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## reapersaurus (Jul 13, 2002)

Grommilus said:
			
		

> *as to the shuriken, it's been over ruled officially.  So no dice, bud. *



How, pray tell?
I'm interested.
(you are referring to the revised smackdown, correct?
Not the very first version?)

And why would you want to make a no-magic Smackdown?
If you can add a simple magic weapon or 2, why not?
Sounds kinds artificial to me.....


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## DM with a vengence (Jul 13, 2002)

The Maximum Points of Damage in a Single Round Smack.

The Character
Druid 16

The Stats.
Wis 26+

The Feats.
Quicken Spell.
Enlarge Spell
Improved Initiative (It can’t hurt)
Spell Focus: Evocation (See Above)

The Items.
Greater Rod of Maximization.
Necklace of Prayer Beads (Karma)
Ioun Stone of Spell Storing (3x Extended Haste (CL 12))

The Spells.
8th) 2x Sunburst, Quickened Flamestrike

The Enemies.
_Many_ Vampires in bat form.

Preparation.
Activate your Prayer Beads and your Ioun Stone.  This can be done as much as 48 rounds before combat, so you should have plenty of time.

The Combat.
Win Initiative. This is important.  If you don’t win the zillions of Vampires will fly down and kill you, so get that initiative.
Cast Sunburst and Maximize it with the Rod.
Cast Sunburst and Maximize it with the Rod.
Cast Quickened Flamestrike and Maximize it with the Rod.

Sunburst has an area of a sphere with radius 10’/level.  Thanks to the Bead of Karma, that’s 200 ft, total volume of Sunburst. 200^3(pi)*4/3=33510321.64 ft^3.  A Vampire in bat form has a volume of 1 ft^3, so we can get around 33,510,321 in one sphere.  Each one of those takes 20d6, or 120 points of damage.  The Flamstrike has a volume of 12566.37061 ft^3, so we get 12,566 Vampires each taking 15d6, or 90 points of damage.

33510321*120=402,1238,520
12566*90=1,130,940

2*402,1238,520+1,130,940=8,043,607,980
Over 8 Billion Points of Damage, and we haven’t even gotten shoehorned in Gaseous Formed Vampires.

But that’s at 16th level, let’s do it again at 20th
Same as before, but with a second Quickened Flamestrike
240^3(pi)*4/3=57905835.79*144=8338440240
12566*90=1,130,940

8338440240*2+1130940*2=16,679,142,360

Over 16.6 Billion Points of damage
Now if we could put a bunch of gaseoused formed vampires in there, then damage would conceivably go to infinity.

(Note: No actual vampires were hurt in the creation of this Smackdown)


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## Jeremy (Jul 13, 2002)

<takes DM with a Vengeance back to his cell>

No, no, he's quite sane.  We here at Way Too Much Time, Ltd just have to cut loose every now and then.

No need for worry.


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## DM with a vengence (Jul 13, 2002)

I swear, officer, I haven't been drinking...
Well, except for the blood of that hobo that we in the Ancient and Pussiant Order of Dagon sacrificed to please our Dark Lord and Master and give Him more Power so that He may speed the coming of the Day of Destruction.
*_bzzz_zzzZZZZZ-*WHAP!!!!*

And now Way Too Much Time, Ltd. brings you the Unkillable NPC.  While not technically a smackdown, this will annoy the party to death.

You need an NPC capable of casting Genesis and Astral Projection, and who perferably will live for quite some time.  He casts Genesis, creating a pocket plane that he then covers with the most power protection spells in existance.  Nondection, Misdirection, Dimensional Anchor, Unhallow, and as many Glyphs of Warding, Symbols, Sepia Snake Sigals, traps loaded with Power Word: Kill and Mordenkainen's Disjuncture etc as he can.  Then load up your private paradise with all of the equipment and supplies you need for centuries and run your Prime Material holdings through an Astral Projection.  If you ever get killed, come back and get the people who killed you.

The party will be very annoyed after they 'kill' Dragunibanipal the Great Red Wyrm Wizard 20 for the 5th time in a row without getting XP or treasure, Hehehehehe.

And for that extra bit of evil, cast Hide Life, encase your finger in Adamantine loaded down with really high powered protection and misdirection spells and feed it to the Tarrasque.  Now anybody who manages to find your pocket plane and survive the thousands of insta-death traps to kill you will just get a very nasty and personal surprise a short while later.


----------



## Black Arrow (Jul 13, 2002)

Low Level Smackdown...

I picked up Rokugan this past weekend, the licensed AEG product that expands upon Oriental Adventures.  Also probably my favorite d20 supplement since Players Handbook was released.

Anyway, here comes the lowest level min-maxed player character smackdown within the rules that I can think of (other than perhaps that pesky 1st lvl [ECL 3] githyanki from PsiHB who can psychically hurl 4000 shuriken at an opponent) without using poison.

Dragon Clan 6th level Human: Samurai 2/Fighter 2/Berserker 1/Ninja 1

FEATS:

(Race) 	Power Attack-Iaijutsu
(LVL 1)	Daisho Technique
(LVL 3)	Expert Tactician
(LVL 6)     Togashi's Technique
(Ftr 1)      Weapon Focus (katana)
(Sam 2)    Daisho Specialization (katana)
(Ftr 2)      Quick Draw

Skill: Iaijutsu Focus 9(ranks) +4(Cha) +4(katana insight bonus) +10(ring competence bonus) = +27

Items:

Rhino Hide (5165 gp)
Boots of Speed (8000 gp)
Focus (katana) (+640 gp) [OA]
Ring of Iaijutsu Focus (2000 gp) [item created using DMG/FR rules]

NOTE: Avg [starting] wealth for 6th lvl chr = 13,000 gp; for 7th lvl = 19,000 gp

Assumption: Character is mid-way through 6th lvl (for higher than average starting wealth), or mage friend can create one magic item for half price.  Also note that ancestral daisho (katana AND wakizashi) are enchanted to +1 given that the character sacrificed 80 XP apiece per the Rokugan samurai ability.

Str 19(+1 level up); Cha 18; Dex 18(for +4 Init)

Preparation: Wizard buddy casts Greater Magic Weapon on katana, and Bulls Strength beforehand (Avg Str now = 22+)

Tactic: Surprising opponent results in the following attack sequence

[surprise round] Activate haste(boots) <haste action> partial charge up to 40', quick drawing katana and striking with two hands, while raging.

BAB +18 (+6 Base, +2 charge, +2 magic enhancement, +8 Str bonus)
Dmg(avg) = [[[5.5 (katana avg) +2 (GMW) +2 (specialization) +12 (Str,two-handed)] *1.1 (critical hit adjustment, assuming opponent flatfooted AC <= 19)] =23.65 +3.5 (Power Attack-Iaijutsu avg) +3.5 (sneak avg) +22.75 (Iaijutsu Focus avg)] *2 (Rhino hide) = 106.8 dmg (charge) + 53.4 dmg (expert tactician)

So during the surprise Round (if available), the character dishes out 160 dmg if both attacks hit [assumption: expert tactician strike does not get Rhino Hide charge bonus... or does it?]

[standard round] <haste action> repeat partial charge (160 dmg vs. different opponent)

<full attack action> 6 attacks using Togashi's Technique and Expert Tactician

BAB(katana) +11/+11/+11/+6 (+6 Base, +2 magic enhancement, +8 Str bonus, -5 Togashi's technique)
BAB(wakizashi) +10/+10 (same but only +1 magic enhancement)
Dmg(katana) = [5.5(avg) +2(GMW) +2(spec) +8(Str) +29.75(Iaijutsu/sneak)] *4 = 189
Dmg(wakizashi) = [3.5(avg) +1(magic) +4(Str) +29.75(Iaijutsu/sneak)] *2 = 77

Note: No critical hits are assumed here.

So in the best case scenario, if the character can beat the opponent's initiative roll and get a surprise round, he can do up to 586 points of damage(avg), at 6th level.  Clearly he'll be getting Improved Initiative at the earliest opportunity, and/or Speed of Darkness as a ninja to add Int bonus to the Initiative rolls...


I can post an alternative that would rely more on sneak attack and less on Iaijutsu Focus if desired... [polymorphed girallons with multiattack are chumps!]


----------



## Grommilus (Jul 13, 2002)

The point of making a smack down with no items is that in a typical dnd game where the dm allows any WotC rules, you can pull this off, and don't need items to do it =)

anyhoo, got another one, this time you don't need any equip =) (altho  a couple monk abilities won't work in an antimagic field, like my previous no magic smack down did)

Books needed, OA, Sword and Fist, and PH.

character half-orc monk 4, fighter 1, tatooed monk 4, singh rager 7

feats needed: flying kick, power attack, Mantis leap, lightning fists, Improved grapple, Iron will, ki shout.

tatoos: lion and tiger

str 20 +4 level +4 fury = 28, +9 bonus.
dex 15+ (for lightning fists)

tactic:  use swiftness of the lioness, lion's fury, tiger tatoo

swiftness partial action: charge, jump at the end (for mantis leap), lion's pounce, flying kick, use lightning fists, Lion tatoo smite the last two, 

primary attack is +14 (bab) +9 str, +2 charge, -5 lightning fists +1 tiger tatoo = 21

attacks at 21/21/21/20/15, each dealing [1d10 +1d6 (tiger tatoo) +18 (9 str bonus, doubled for mantis leap)] x 2(flying kick) points of damage. (+8 on the last two for smite)
damage average per attack  54, 62 for the last two.  If they all hit, deal 286.

normal action: take two move equivalents: tumble 5 feet back, jump back on foe for both of them =) (mantic leap is broken)
2 more charges at 21/21/21/15/11, each attack dealing 54 average damage.

if all attacks hit 826.  can keep this up for 3 more rounds (end of tiger tatoo), then for 3 more rounds at -7 damage per attack and -1 to hit untill swiftness of the lion wears off.  then ya can only do 2 charges a round =)

I like this one, would be fun to slip in under a DM's nose.  My old singh rager could only clear 200 for one round, this guy can clear 450 every round =)

anyhoo, lates

Grom


----------



## Grommilus (Jul 13, 2002)

DM with a vengence said:
			
		

> *I swear, officer, I haven't been drinking...
> Well, except for the blood of that hobo that we in the Ancient and Pussiant Order of Dagon sacrificed to please our Dark Lord and Master and give Him more Power so that He may speed the coming of the Day of Destruction.
> *bzzzzzzZZZZZ-WHAP!!!!
> 
> ...




hehe, use your pinky toe instead of fingure, you use it less, and is fully supported by the hide life spell (amazing spell for reacurring villians)

Grom


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## Doorf (Jul 16, 2002)

A ring of +25 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 12.500 gp
A ring of +50 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 50.000 gp
A ring of +100 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 200.000 gp
A ring of +500 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 5.000.000gp
A ring of +1000 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 20.000.000gp
If this skill affects damage you should spend all your money on max +skill ring not just +10 since there is no limitation.
Cost is bonus squared*20.
To increase DC don't use only +6 headband of intelect
You can eazily create/buy
+10 int for 100.000gp
+20 int for 400.000gp
+50 int for 2.500.000gp
+100 int for 10.000.000 gp
+1000int for 1.000.000.000.000gp

Another usefull items that will greatly increase your chances of staying alive:
Belt of Heal - 1 use per day command word HEAL spell for 23.760gp

Gloves of Time Stoping -  2 uses per day command word TIME STOP spell for 110.160gp

Ring of Evaporation - 1 use per day command word Maximized Empowered Empowered Empowered Empowered Horrid Wilting for 171.000gp (caster level 25 spell level 19 dc 27 damage 600 or half on save).
All items are created acording to DMG rules on page 242.

Once a day you can eazily  do 300dam.


----------



## novyet (Jul 16, 2002)

Hey Grommilus, got anymore of those no magic smackdowns? I rather like those, they make very nice dm tools.


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## Tyrrell (Jul 16, 2002)

Doorf said:
			
		

> Ring of Evaporation - 1 use per day command word Maximized Empowered Empowered Empowered Empowered Horrid Wilting for 171.000gp (caster level 25 spell level 19 dc 27 damage 600 or half on save).
> All items are created acording to DMG rules on page 242.
> [/B]




Metamagic feats would not up the dc for the save .  This item would have a save dc of 23.  (10 + 9th spell level + minimum stat ).


----------



## Jeremy (Jul 16, 2002)

And maximize doesn't maximize the empowered damage.  So you have to roll the damage, cut that in half, then add it to the maximized damage.  ((And then add it again since it's empowered multiple times))

Metamagic feats have been ruled to only affect the base spell, so adjucating them sometimes is wonky.


----------



## Doorf (Jul 17, 2002)

Sorry didn't know metamagics affect only base effect of spell
The avarage would be: 150+87.5*3=412 dam
And DC base+not metamagicked spell level+minimal int
10+8+9=28
Since you need  29(+9) int to cast 19th spell level.
This is still preety nice


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## Corran (Jul 17, 2002)

*Sultans of a lesser Smack*

See Sultans of a lesser Smack for a new challenge.


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## CRGreathouse (Jul 17, 2002)

Doorf said:
			
		

> *A ring of +25 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 12.500 gp
> A ring of +50 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 50.000 gp
> A ring of +100 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 200.000 gp
> A ring of +500 to Iaijutsu Focus costs 5.000.000gp
> ...




The ELH changes the costs for the higher-end (ability >+6, skill >+30) items by multiplying them by 10.


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## CRGreathouse (Jul 17, 2002)

Re: Shuriken smack


			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *How, pray tell?
> I'm interested.
> (you are referring to the revised smackdown, correct?
> Not the very first version?) *




I don't think that Grommilus knew this, but there is some language in the ELH that states that all precision-based effects apply only to one shuriken, not just WS.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jul 18, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *I don't think that Grommilus knew this, but there is some language in the ELH that states that all precision-based effects apply only to one shuriken, not just WS. *



that's why I only applied the WS and Point-Blank Shot (i think there was one other) only once each volley...

I guess Gromm just spouted out "It has been overridden!" without any facts?


----------



## Al (Jul 18, 2002)

Grommilus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> hehe, use your pinky toe instead of fingure, you use it less, and is fully supported by the hide life spell (amazing spell for reacurring villians)
> 
> Grom *




And then cast Regenerate...


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## Darkness (Jul 18, 2002)

Doorf said:
			
		

> *Sorry didn't know metamagics affect only base effect of spell
> The avarage would be: 150+87.5*3=412 dam
> And DC base+not metamagicked spell level+minimal int
> 10+8+9=28
> ...



IIRC, Metamagic Feats don't affect minimum Int score... Heck, they don't even affect a spell's effective level and so they don't even _have_ to, anyway!
(Except for Heighten Spell [I _think_ that's the one, anyway ], of course. Which I think still doesn't affect minimum Int. Could be wrong, though. )


----------



## Jeremy (Jul 18, 2002)

While you still need the INT to cast spells of that slot which the metamagic requires, the actual rule ignores it anyways.

The rule in the DMG for saving throws from items is DC = 10 + Spell Level x 1.5.

In this case the spell level is 8 because it's not heightened, so the DC is stuck at 22.  Horrid Wilting from a staff, or Horrid Wilting double empowered twinned and maximized from a ring both have a saving throw of 22.


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## The Iron Mark (Aug 1, 2002)

So, will we be seeing an Epic Sultans of Smack in the future?


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## CRGreathouse (Aug 1, 2002)

Darkness said:
			
		

> *IIRC, Metamagic Feats don't affect minimum Int score... Heck, they don't even affect a spell's effective level and so they don't even have to, anyway!*




I agree, but the ELH says you need the appropriate stat to cast from a spell *slot*.  I've sent it to WotC as a part of my errata list.


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## Amator (Aug 12, 2002)

*Spellfire Smackdown*

First of all, I didn't see a current Smackdown thread on the first 2 pages in the General RPG Discussion, D&D Rules, and House Rules Forums and I can't search the forums.  Moderators can take any action necessary to copy&paste, delete, etc if this is in some kind of violation. 

After reading the archived Sultans of Smackdown thread, I wanted to join the club.  This one isn't too intricate, but it seems to work.  Please point out any holes.  Without further ado...

Spellfire Smackdown


Theory: Max out Constitution for most spellfire energy levels to explode into huge maelstrom of fire/Increased Storage Backfire. 

Dwarven Monk 5/Barbarian 1/Spellfire Channeler 10

Constitution
18base
2 dwarf
3 level gains
5 Inherant from Manual of Bodily Health
4 Barbarian Rage
6 Enhancement Bracers of Health
----
38  Constitution x 5(Increased Storage)= 190 Maximum Spellfire Energy Levels

This Raiden-esqe monk arrived at the Smackdown immediately after catching some rays at a nearby magedual to charge up the batteries.  Assuming he can make his per round will saves (with monk saves and a good wisdom score this shouldn't be too much trouble at DC 10) he tumbles to within 15' of his foe.

He can only voluntarily expend a number of spellfire levels equal to his constitution, so if he hits with a Maelstrom of Fire it does 228 maximum damage on a failed save.  This is nice, and meets the limits for a smackdown, but if he decides to voluntarily fail his save, he is forced to expel a maximum strength blast of energy at a random target within 30 feet, which would be a fun 1140 points of spellfire damage on a failed save. (ONLY 570 with a failed save).  

I'm sure there are many more ways to buff his constitution(perhaps the shocker lizard/shambling mound combo?) and raise the payoff, but I don't have the library of rule books to truly min/max this concept.  

Any comments or additions would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Amator


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## Darkness (Aug 12, 2002)

Sultans of Smack and similar threads tend to go in Rules; I'll move you there. 

BTW, if you want, I can merge this thread with the Sultans of Smack one (which also will bring that thread on top again, given that threads are - normally - sorted by last post).


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## Amator (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: Spellfire Smackdown*

Thanks, I'd appreciate that.


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## Heretic Apostate (Aug 12, 2002)

He's 16th level, so couldn't he get one more stat increase?


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## Cloudgatherer (Aug 12, 2002)

Wouldn't a "maximum strength blast" still only be 38d6?  IIRC, you can't (ever, even if you fail a will save) spend more than your Con in Spellfire levels per round.


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## Amator (Aug 12, 2002)

Heretic Apostate said:
			
		

> *He's 16th level, so couldn't he get one more stat increase? *




D'oh, forgot about that one, thanks!


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## Amator (Aug 12, 2002)

Cloudgatherer said:
			
		

> *Wouldn't a "maximum strength blast" still only be 38d6? IIRC, you can't (ever, even if you fail a will save) spend more than your Con in Spellfire levels per round. *




Magic of Faerun, pg 40

"Regardless of the number of spellfire energy levels stored, a channeler can voluntarily expend only a number of spellfire energy levels per round equal to her Constitution score. (Involuntary expenditure, such as that noted above<refers to Maximum Blast Backfire> isn't limited in this way).  

Being that the Backfire is not voluntary, I think I am correct in saying you can apply each spell level.  I still could be wrong, or there might be errata though.


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## kreynolds (Aug 12, 2002)

Amator said:
			
		

> *Being that the Backfire is not voluntary, I think I am correct in saying you can apply each spell level. *




You are correct. Backfire is both an advantage and a drawback. You could toast your enemy, or you could fry your buddy. Kinda risky.


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## Darkness (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Spellfire Smackdown*



			
				Amator said:
			
		

> *Thanks, I'd appreciate that.  *



Done!


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## Alariel (Aug 28, 2002)

As a friend of mine and I are going to co-DM Return to Tomb of Horror as a pseudo-tournament with pregenerated 20th level characters, I would like to add my appreciation for the Sultans of Smack.


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## Jeremy (Aug 28, 2002)




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## Veldrane (Sep 2, 2002)

* Machine-gun Smackdown *

_Close combat Archer Smackdown_

*Note:* _This is not a pure max damage smackdown, I didn't throw in energy weapons et similia in order to further increase the damage (you can do it as well as I do). This is more a build, and the damage reported below can be inflicted every round in every combat._

*Material used:* Phb, SaF, ELH, Silver Marches

*Race:* Human

```
[COLOR=silver]
Level	Class			BAB		Saving Throws	Feats				Class Abilities
1	Fighter (1)		+1		+2/+0/+0	Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus	Bonus Feat
2	Fighter (2)		+2		+3/+0/+0	Rapid Shot			Bonus Feat
3	Fighter (3)		+3		+3/+1/+1	Far Shot	
4	Fighter (4)		+4		+4/+1/+1	Weapon Specialization		Bonus Feat
5	Barbarian (1)		+5		+6/+1/+1					Rage, Fast Movement
6	Order of the Bow (1)	+6/+1		+6/+3/+3	Quick Draw			Ranged Sneak Attack +1d6
7	Order of the Bow (2)	+7/+2		+6/+4/+4					Close Combat Shot
8	Peerless Archer (1)	+8/+3		+8/+4/+4			Expert Bowyer, Ranged Sneak Attack +2d6
9	Peerless Archer (2)	+9/+4		+9/+4/+4	Manyshot		Sharp Shooting 1, Fletching +1
10	Peerless Archer (3)	+10/+5		+9/+5/+5					Power Shot
11	Peerless Archer (4)	+11/+6/+1	+10/+5/+5			Ranged Sneak Attack +3d6, Fletching +2
12	Peerless Archer (5)	+12/+7/+2	+10/+5/+5	Improved Critical 		Sharp Shooting 2
13	Peerless Archer (6)	+13/+8/+3	+11/+6/+6					Fletching +3
14	Peerless Archer (7)	+14/+9/+4	+11/+6/+6					Ranged Sneak Attack +4d6
15	Peerless Archer (8)	+15/+10/+5	+12/+6/+6	? Feat ?			Threaten, Fletching +4
16	Order of the Bow (3)	+16/+11/+6/+1	+13/+6/+6					Ranged Sneak Attack +5d6
17	Order of the Bow (4)	+17/+12/+7/+2	+13/+7/+7					Superior Weapon Focus
18	Order of the Bow (5)	+18/+13/+8/+3	+13/+7/+7	Zen Archery			Ranged Sneak Attack +6d6
19	Order of the Bow (6)	+19/+14/+9/+4	+14/+8/+8					Free Attack, Zen Archery
20	Order of the Bow (7)	+20/+15/+10/+5	+14/+8/+8				Superior Weapon Specialization
[/COLOR]
```

Obviously, we'll use the character @ lvl 16

*Items*
Mighty (+4) Composite Long Bow +5 (or GMW)
Arrows +5 (or GMW)
Bracers of Archery
Tome +5 Dexterity
Item +6 Dexterity
Boots of Speed

We end up with a Dexterity score of:
17 Base
+4 Level ups
+6 Item
+5 Tome
=
32 (+11 Bonus)

*Attack*

+16 BAB
+11 Dex
+2 Bracers
+1 Point Blank Shot
+5 Bow
+5 Arrows
+1 Weapon Focus
+2 Flanking (considering in the middle of the fight, or -2 AC to the enemy if flat footed)
=
+43
_With Manyshot_
+41/+41/+41/+41
_With Haste and Manyshot_
+41/+41/+41/+41/+41/+41/+41/+41
_Ok, time for a little Powershot:_
+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25/+25

*Damage*
1d8 Base
+5 Bow
+5 Arrow
+4 Strenght
+1 Point Blank Shot
+1 Bracers
+2 Weapon Specialization
+16 Power Shot
+5d6 Sneak Attack

Well, with Manyshot, Sneak Attack applies only to one arrow per attack, so we have:

SA Arrows = 56 Dmg (x2)
Other Arrows = 38.5 Dmg (x6)
=
_343 Damage_

As I said before, this damage is not maxed out, but it's doable every time you use Manyshot (btw, w/out Sneak Attack it's still 308 Dmg/round), so you can do it every time and customize the weapon to add further damage.. ..I included the complete build, so that if you want, you can advance the character or reduce it, even use it, if you wish..

Enjoy


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## Immort (Sep 2, 2002)

What book is manyshot from anyhow?

-Immort


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## CRGreathouse (Sep 2, 2002)

How did you get a flanking bonus with the bow?



			
				Immort said:
			
		

> *What book is manyshot from anyhow?*




The Epic Level Handbook.


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## Veldrane (Sep 2, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *How did you get a flanking bonus with the bow? *



*

If you can threaten, you can flank, isn't it? *


----------



## Al (Sep 3, 2002)

Veldrane said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If you can threaten, you can flank, isn't it?  *




You don't normally threaten with a bow.
Is this a prestige class ability?


----------



## CRGreathouse (Sep 3, 2002)

Veldrane said:
			
		

> *If you can threaten, you can flank, isn't it?  *




One can only flank with melee weapons.

Edit: That is, unless the ability also redefines flanking.  Does it?


----------



## Veldrane (Sep 3, 2002)

Al said:
			
		

> *You don't normally threaten with a bow.
> Is this a prestige class ability? *




Ya, Peerless Archer, Lvl 8, Threaten



			
				CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> 
> One can only flank with melee weapons.
> 
> Edit: That is, unless the ability also redefines flanking.  Does it? *




Silver Marches, page 117: _"At 8th level, a Peerless Archer gains the ability to threaten nearby areas with her bow as if she were wielding a melee weapon [...] Her bow functions as a reach weapon, threatening anything 10 feet away but not immediately adiacent to her."_

Seems to me you can flank as you'd do with a melee weapon with reach..


----------



## CRGreathouse (Sep 4, 2002)

Veldrane said:
			
		

> *Silver Marches, page 117: "At 8th level, a Peerless Archer gains the ability to threaten nearby areas with her bow as if she were wielding a melee weapon [...] Her bow functions as a reach weapon, threatening anything 10 feet away but not immediately adiacent to her."
> 
> Seems to me you can flank as you'd do with a melee weapon with reach.. *




The definition of flanking requires that you use a melee weapon.  (Interestingly enough, if you threaten with the bow, you can grant your allies a flanking bonus... btu aren't falnking yourself.)


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## Veldrane (Sep 4, 2002)

At least debatable..

_Silver Marches:_"threaten as if she were using a melee weapon" and "her bow functions as a melee weapon with reach"

_PHB (about flanking, p.130):_ "if you're making a melee attack"

It seems clear to me that the designer's idea was to make flanking, and thus Sneak Attacking, available for the Peerless Archer, (providing she isn't threatened or triggers an AoO).. ..your argument seems to be all about the sentence form, but the substance is untouched..

Now, if you wouldn't allow that, it's your call, and your opinion; I'd allow it, and that's mine


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## CRGreathouse (Sep 4, 2002)

I didn't know it usedthe term "as a melee weapon".  IOn that case, until I'm convinced otherwise, I'd agree with you.


----------



## Veldrane (Sep 4, 2002)




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## Elric (Sep 25, 2002)

A lot of smackdowns involve some kind of powerful charge attack.  I wonder if anyone can come up with a PH race, no spell, no magic item (so no gp spent on magic items to give inherent bonuses) smack that doesn't involve using some tactic involving a charge?  Also, Power Critical on a x4 crit weapon seems to be a little too easy.  Most of the powerful damage modifiers (especially if you don't have magic) all involve charge- Spirited Charge, Shield Bash, Power Lunge...

I have an idea for a well-rounded smack with no spells or magic items- it currently involves 6 prestige classes, including Bear Warrior   The hardest part right now seems to be actually getting it to be a smackdown


----------



## reapersaurus (Sep 25, 2002)

OK, that's it.
[sarcastic spoof] Guys, all this inventive massive-damage rules-maximizing is dumb.
It uses too much broken/insert complaint here/magic items.

I challenge you to come up with a smack down that requires real creativity:
A PC that's forced to only use one hand, that has to have a patch over one eye because he believes himself a pirate, and can only use spells that start with the letter "C" on off-Mondays.  [/spoof]

These invented-restrictions that unrealistically limit what you can use in a Smackdown have gotten too much.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Sep 25, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I challenge you to come up with a smack down that requires real creativity:
> A PC that's forced to only use one hand, that has to have a patch over one eye because he believes himself a pirate, and can only use spells that start with the letter "C" on off-Mondays.  [/spoof]*




I think your best bet would be a "Jack the Knife"-style character: 

Character, male halfling Ftr4/Rog11/Asn1: CR 16; ECL 16; Medium-size Humanoid (halfling); HD 12d6+4d10; hp 64; Init +7; Spd 30 ft; AC 17 (+7 Dex); Melee +2 dagger +18/+13/+8 (1d4+7/crit 19-20); Ranged +2 dagger +23/+18/+13 (1d4+4/crit 19-20); SA death attack, sneak attack; SQ evasion, halfling traits, special rogue abilities (1), uncanny dodge; AL CN; SV Fort +9, Ref +17, Will +8; Str 16, Dex 24, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12.
Skills and Feats: Use Magic Device +20; Quickdraw, Weapon Focus (dagger), Weapon Specialization (dagger).
Equipment: +2 daggers (10), potions of invisibility (5), wand of summon monster II (40 charges).


I'd give him gloves of Dexterity, but that requires both hands.


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## Elric (Sep 25, 2002)

Ok, here's a smack:
1/2 Orc
Fighter 4/Barb 2/Frenzied Berserker 10

Str 48 (20 to start, 4 level bonus, 4 arms of nyr, Belt of Giant Str +6, Frenzy, Rage)
Feats: Power Critical, Focus, Specialization: Scythe
Potion of True Strike, +5 Scythe, Rhino Hide Armor

Attack bonus: +16 levels, +1 feat, +19 Str, +5 Magic= +41
Damage on a charge w/ power crit: x4
Base Damage: 2d4+28 Str+5 Magic+ 2 Specialization
2d4+35 (40)
x5= 200
Add Supreme Power Attack points for extra damage (ten per point of power attack).  

I might have messed up a calculation or two, but that's the basic idea.  200 dmg, one really big crit with really high Str.  I think I could probably have added Power Lunge for more damage as well.


----------



## Jeremy (Sep 25, 2002)

Elric said:
			
		

> *I think I could probably have added Power Lunge for more damage as well. *




But that would make it involve charging and you don't like that remember.  

Really, there are probably 6 smackdowns that require a charge attack, there are probably 25 smackdowns total now.  If you like low magic, try the orc with the broom, if you like high magic try the super strength or super AC combinations.   If you want low level you'll have to find the other thread or break down one of the smacks to it's lower level version.

There's something here for everyone.


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## Elric (Sep 25, 2002)

Jeremy- Sorry, I didn't say that right.  I meant that a lot of the lower magic smackdowns involved charge attacks.  There are tons of smacks here which don't involve charge, but not that many low magic ones.  Not that there's anything wrong with high magic smacks, but you get to use more prestige classes with lower magic  characters (especially because you can make a 20th level character and not have to worry about spending 760k on items).  I don't dislike any of the smacks- except for the ones that my DM has used on me


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## Jeremy (Sep 26, 2002)

Elric said:
			
		

> *I meant that a lot of the lower magic smackdowns involved charge attacks.  ...Not that there's anything wrong with high magic smacks, but you get to use more prestige classes with lower magic  characters...*




That's alright.  Perhaps I might point you to this one.  Instead of few magic items we have NO magic items.  Instead of 6 prestige classes, we have zero.  In fact, unless you really want to get nasty, you don't have to use anything but the PHB.

Now me personally, the more complex the better, give me magical items and obscure classes mixed up in a creative manner and show me something I haven't seen.  That's where I see the challenge.  Creativity and imagination, variety and mastery of multiple subject matters.

Low magic, low level, limited source smackdowns are also limited imagination oft times.  It takes a lot of open mindedness, visual thinking, and love of heroic fantasy, but when you get into it, there is nothing so visceral, exiting, and given to spectacular retelling as an over the top encounter like these.

But I digress, as I said, here's low magic, low prestige, normal level, smackdown without a charge attack.  

*My half-orc priest beat your paladin champion with a stick!*
Originally Posted by Dantai

*PHB Smackdown with no magic items*

O.K. You got your prestige classes of uber-cheese only printed once in warbles and weevils magazine vol 1 smackdowns utilizing +8 swords of monkey-beasting. 

Here's something a bit simpler:

Half-Orc: Cleric (St Cuthbert) Lv16

Armed only with a common qurterstaff and these Feats:
Ambidexterity, TWF, Imp TWF, Power Attack

With Divine Favour (yes I am English), Greater Magic Weapon and Righteous Might cast.

With a strength of 24 activating your strength domain power gives a strength of 40 for a round, str 44 with righteous might.

So your base damage adjust is +17 (str) +25 (two-handed) +30 (luck bonus from divine favour) +35 (enhancement bonus from greater magic weapon).

You get 5 attacks this round the lowest attack bonus being +24, might as well use the smite ability on that one then for a grand total of:

191 + 5D8 damage

If you're being picky then Power Attack away to your heart's content.

Total cost of Smackdown ingredients = zip, not a single GP

Total number of dodgy classes and books used= zip, PHB only

So when you're butt-naked in the dungeon of ultimate despair you need only find a stick to prove that you are still the daddy.

For a bit of extra death you could use the Spikes spell out of DotF 

I guess you could disallow the Righteous Might if you only had one round to prep, but you could take a Barbarian Lvl (and a N alignment) and use rage to compensate, which would be slightly less effective but should still get the 200 pts in with a bit of power attacking.


----------



## Bloodstone (Sep 26, 2002)

About the Peerless Archer build: Manyshot does not let you make 4 attacks as a standard action. It lets you make one attck to fire 4 arrows. as such you could can do 2 manyshots with haste at +41/+41. 

Since you are only making 2 attacks, regardless of the fact you are firing 4 arrows, you could only apply power shot damage twice. 

I think you would be better off with a full attack and then doing a manyshot for you haste partial. Skip power shot completely and you should still do about 300 pts of damage easy...I'm too lazy to figure it out exactly and there would probably be some disagreements about the "precise" definition of "precision based"damage....which in my games is any bonus damge that is only effective when within 30' ...


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## 1337 h4xor (Sep 29, 2002)

Bloodstone said:
			
		

> *
> I think you would be better off with a full attack and then doing a manyshot for you haste partial. *




dont think that's possible as many shot is a standard action not a partial, the only reason you could get 2 off with a haste is because you use 1 standard action have a move left over.... and a  move plus a partial is another standard thus you get 2 standard in one round.


----------



## James McMurray (Sep 29, 2002)

You can do anything you could normally do in a standard action with a partial action.


----------



## Hypersmurf (Sep 29, 2002)

> *dont think that's possible as many shot is a standard action not a partial, the only reason you could get 2 off with a haste is because you use 1 standard action have a move left over.... and a  move plus a partial is another standard thus you get 2 standard in one round. *




A move plus a partial is not a standard action.  They do very strongly resemble one another, but it doesn't work that way.

However, let's assume for a moment that it does.

If a move plus a partial equals a standard, then by the same logic, a standard minus a move equals a partial.

Thus, for your first manyshot, you intend to use a standard... minus the move which you intend to combine with the extra partial to form a second standard.  

But!  That means that your first standard is no longer a standard, but a partial, since you've given its move to the extra partial.  And you've already declared that you can't use Manyshot with a partial action, so your first action fails miserably.

Alternatively, you could reread PHB p127, and realise that James McMurray is quite correct.

Combining a hasted partial Manyshot (HPMS), a standard-action Manyshot (SAMS), and a Move (M), can be done in several different ways within one hasted round :

HPMS, M, SAMS
HPMS, SAMS, M
M, SAMS, HPMS
SAMS, M, HPMS

You _can't_ combine them like this :

M, HPMS, SAMS
SAMS, HPMS, M

... since you take your hasted partial action between the move and the rest of your standard action.  In this case, it makes no difference, since your HP and SA are the same.

Isn't it all much clearer now? 

-Hyp.


----------



## Arcanus (Sep 29, 2002)

Uhhhh.

Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Does power shot still work on every arrow fired? including manyshot and rapid shot?


----------



## 1337 h4xor (Sep 29, 2002)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> *
> 
> A move plus a partial is not a standard action.  They do very strongly resemble one another, but it doesn't work that way.
> 
> ...




actually there's no need to go and re-read anything.


----------



## Hypersmurf (Sep 29, 2002)

> *actually there's no need to go and re-read anything.  *




Ah, good... trust is a wonderful thing 

Happy to be of service!

-Hyp.


----------



## Darkness (Sep 29, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *My half-orc priest beat your paladin champion with a stick!*
> Originally Posted by Dantai
> 
> *PHB Smackdown with no magic items*
> ...



Don't mind me, I'm just trying to figure out the particulars of the above smack. 
Okay, now:

Half-orc Clr16; Atk +17/+12/+2 melee (1d6+7, quarterstaff) and +17/+12 melee (1d6+3, quarterstaff); Str 24, Dex 15.
Feats: Ambidexterity, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, 2 undefined.
Patron Deity: St. Cuthbert. Domains: Destruction, Strength.

_Greater magic weapon_ turns the quarterstaff into a +_5 weapon_.
(Side note: You'll have to cast it twice, though, no? 'cause double weapons have to have both ends enchanted separately with magic item creation, too... Heh. Just occurred to me now...)
So: Atk +22/17/7 (1d6+12) and +22/17 (1d6+8).

_Divine favor_ gives you a +5 luck bonus to attack and damage rolls (for 1 action within the next minute).
Thus: Atk +27/22/12 (1d6+17) and +27/22 (1d6+13).

_Righteous might_ grants you a +4 enlargement bonus to Strength and increases the quarterstaff's base damage to 1d8. But it also gives you -1 to attack rolls since you are now Large.
Therefore: Large; Atk +28/23/18 (1d8+19) and +28/23 (1d8+14); Str 28.

Activating the Strength Domain power gives you +16 Strength.
Which means: Atk +36/31/26 (1d8+27) and +36/31 (1d8+18).

Smite gives you +4 to hit and +16 damage with one attack.

Total damage: 3*(1d8+27) + 2*(1d8+18) +16 = 5d8 + 133
(The lowest attack bonus being +26 unless it's the Smite, in which case it's +30.)

Hmm... Is it possible that the author of this smack did the Str bonus incorrectly? He seems to have multiplied it by 1.5 for each end - which is not the way to do it if you're using a double weapon, I believe.
Also, he said the lowest Atk bonus is +24 - but I got +26 (+12base -10third attack +17Str +5gmw +5luck -1Large -2two-weapon fighting).

Heh. Anyway: It's still one of my favorite smacks - and has been since it was created.


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## Arcanus (Sep 29, 2002)

This is not really a smack but my kids won't let me have the time to make one.

In R&R 2 there is a 2nd level Cleric/Paladin spell called Force of Will, range of personal. Therefore you should make it Persistent.
Anyway it allows you to use your Wisdom mod. in place of ANY physical ability mod. So your Con.,Str., and Dex could be increased. 

You Cleric ARCHERS out there should do the following:

Cast a maximized and empowered Divine Wisdom to boost your Wisdom score up to lets say (assuming this is a 16th level Cleric)
an average of +8 to Wisdom. You should probally extend this spell also.

Now you have for a Human about a max of 30 Wisdom giving you +10 to spell DC's and saves. 

Now you cast a Persistent Force of Will 3 times to make your Str., Dex., and Con. all 30 for 24 hours. Boosting hit points also.

Since you are 16th level you have bundles of Cash so go buy the Bow from Book of Eldritch Might II that is a +2 Mighty Composite Longbow that adjusts its Str. Modifier to fit the user up to +10 Strength! So now your Bow does +10 Strength Damage.

Cast a Persistent Divine Favor, Persistent Divine Power and you get +16 BAB and +16 hit points plus +5 luck bonus to hit & damage (I think at that level its +5).

Greater magic Weapon cast on Bow and Arrows gives you another +10 to hit and damage.

So far you have:

+16 BAB                              +10 from Strength              
+5 Divine Favor                   +5 Divine Favor
+5 Magic bow                      +5 Magic Arrows
+5 Magic Arrows                  +5 Magic Bow
+10 from Dexterity
+1 Weapon Focus 
For a total of +42 to hit  &  +25 to Damage

I'm not sure but if you cast Righteous Might your Arrows might do more damage from size increase to 1d10 at the cost of -1 to hit.

In the Quintessential Wizard book (I think ) there is a Metamagic Feat that lets you imbue weapons to hold spells that have a range of touch. (FORGET ABOUT USING HARM THAT IS EXTREME POWERGAMING ) So go ahead and Imbue an arrow to do a Maximized & Empowered   Cure/Inflict Spell.

Now for more Uber Feat and smacking goodness In the AEG Mercenaries Handbook there is a Feat that allows up to 2 of your arrow shots to be automatic criticals (depending on your # of BAB)
So in theory if you have a Persistent Assassin's Senses cast and have the Improved Critical Feat (for times when you want to shoot more than twice a round) Your Critical arrows do 4d10 +100 points of Damage not including the Spell Critical Damage ( if its allowed rule wise while its on an arrow).

So you have 4d10 + 100 hps damage on 1 ARROW! Plus an average +20 hps(empowered),+48hps(maximized) Cure/Inflict Critical Wounds attached to that for a maximum (averaged for the empowerment) of 208 hps from 1 arrow. Using the automatic critical feat twice you could do 416 hit points damage in 2 shots in 1 round. 

Notice that I didn't include Point Blank Shot.
At 20th level you could take 1 level in Templar and 3 levels in Peerless Archer and increase the damage within 30ft for Specialization and Power Shot for +20 giving you 4d10 +192 hit points of damage on a critical within 30ft and not including Infict Wounds spell off of one arrow for a max of 232 hit points damage.
Include the Empowered & Maximized Inflict Critical Wounds and you get another +68 hit points (roughly) for 300 hit points max on 1 arrow and 600 max off 2 arrows in one round

Please comment and add on to this post.


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## Thanee (Sep 29, 2002)

Weapon damage for being large (Righteous Might) would increase to 2d6!

Bye
Thanee


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## Darkness (Sep 29, 2002)

Arcanus said:
			
		

> In the Quintessential Wizard book (I think ) there is a Metamagic Feat that lets you imbue weapons to hold spells that have a range of touch. *(FORGET ABOUT USING HARM THAT IS EXTREME POWERGAMING ) *



Your point being...?


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## Vuk (Sep 29, 2002)

You dont get 2 handed dam bonus when u fight with multi headed weapons.



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *My half-orc priest beat your paladin champion with a stick!
> Originally Posted by Dantai
> 
> PHB Smackdown with no magic items
> ...



two-handed


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## Arcanus (Sep 29, 2002)

Darkness said:
			
		

> *Your point being...?  *




Well for 1 thing if I used harm spells in the above example I wouldn't be able to show how much damage I could do!

but I could save time and spells and arrows by just using harm.


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## Arcanus (Sep 29, 2002)

Dang! I forgot the Righteous Might exactly.

As Thanee pointed out it would make it 2d6 arrows instead of 1d10. Making a critical at 8d6.

How much damage does a inflict critical wounds do if it was Maximized and Empowered at 16th level?

If it was part of a spelled arrow would it also be subject to the critical damage mulitiplier? If so would it be at x2 because it is a spell or x3 or x4???????????

Help.


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## Jeph (Sep 29, 2002)

Just for fun, I've done a smack for a character that is blind, deaf, dumb, paralyzed, and on the other side of a 50' stone barrier. (Pay no attention to the fact that said character is a Psion 20 . . .)

Powers: Summon Astral Construct 9, Remote View, Temporal Velocity
Skills: Remote Viewing +30 (If your GM uses the 1= -10 rule), or Remote Viewing +19 if they use 1= miss or 1=1. 

Abilities: Int 19+, Dex 36 (for the Power Points), Wis 13+ 
Items: Torc of Psionic Might, HUGE supply of dull grey ioun stones.

Tactics: Manifest Remote Viewing to actually SEE where you are going to perform the smack, this is DC 20 (you have no knowledge of the creature, connection is you know where they are). If the creatures are within 25' of the other side of the wall, proceed to next step: manifest Temporal Velocity. Now, manifest  Astral Construct 9 every round that you can. This should yield 7.5 astral constructs, on average. Repeat this EVERY ROUND, using the Torc and an Ioun Stone for every manifestation. Now, let's see if I made the 200 damage minimum on round 1 . . . 

Okay, so the constructs have 3 menu C abilities. Give it Gore (so it has a +40 melee, 1d8 +19 attack in addition to other atks), Concussion (extra 3d6 damage /round/construct), Charge ability from Menu B, and Additional Attack and Sprint. So, on the first round, you have the 7 to 8 constructs doing the following:

Running 1000 feet twords your opponent,
Making a 2 gores at +38 / +38,
and Slams at +25/+20/+15.

Since this is a Smack, lets assume all the attacks except for the lowest slam hit, and 1/2 of the lowest slams hit. Thats 15 gores and 18.75 slams.

(15x23.5) + (18.75x26) =  . . . drumroll please . . .840 damage! YES! Beat the minimum! Whoops! Forgot the concussions! Since the target is so high level, lets assume they make every save. That would be an extra .5(3.5x7.5) damage, or an extra 13.125. Not such a big diff. Oh well.

And now, lets add Boots of Speed. This lets you use the Start Full Round Action 7.5 times, sommoning another construct each time, for an extra 3.75 constructs. Give each construct past the 8th Cone of Sound, Extra Buff, and Superheavy Armor, since they won't be able to get close enough to a 5'x5' opponent to attack.

And then all the constructs do their 853.125 damage again next round, plus the _other_ 7.5 constructs that you sommoned use their Cones of Sound!


*SERIOUS SMACK TIME!*

*Psion:* Darn, I'm blind, deaf, dumb, paralyzed, and civilization is behind a 50' stone wall. This sucks. I think I'll use Remote viewing to look around outside.
~Pause~
*Psion:* Hey, there's a Very Old Red Dragon 20 feet away! *activates boots, summons 11 Astral construct 9s* 
*Red Dragon:* Hum hum just having a stroll through the park next to a big stone wall, hum hum . . . OH MY F***** GO- *gurgles*
*Psion:* Thanks, Jeph!


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## Darkness (Sep 29, 2002)

Arcanus said:
			
		

> *How much damage does a inflict critical wounds do if it was Maximized and Empowered at 16th level?
> 
> If it was part of a spelled arrow would it also be subject to the critical damage mulitiplier? If so would it be at x2 because it is a spell or x3 or x4???????????
> 
> Help. *



Lessee...

_Inflict critical wounds_ at level 16: 4d8+16

Empowered: 1.5*(4d8+16)

Maximized: 1.5*(32 +16) = 72

And I don't think that it would be increased on a critical hit; it's a special effect of the attack - just like something like flaming or vorpal would be...


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## Darkness (Sep 29, 2002)

Arcanus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well for 1 thing if I used harm spells in the above example I wouldn't be able to show how much damage I could do!
> 
> but I could save time and spells and arrows by just using harm. *



Personally, I think that "xyz damage for arrow, + harm" looks nasty enough...


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## Jeph (Sep 29, 2002)

Oh common, this is my first smack, and you people act like you don't even _care_? 

*sniffles*

It's been a whole 5 minutes and there isn't a single reply about it . . . *sniffle+sniffle*


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## Arcanus (Sep 29, 2002)

Why yes it does


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## Arcanus (Sep 29, 2002)

Oh Good God.

I just found another feat to give this Uber Cleric Archer.
Also from the AEG Mercenaries Handbook.

Expert Aim ( or something like that) allows you to also add your Dex modifier to your damage roll on 1 shot. 

Not over smacking, but if you can't for some reason make more than one that round, it could be useful.

+10 from Dex, +10 from Str, +10 from GMW Bow&Arrows and also +5 from Divine Favor nets you at least a +35 on Damage. With Righteous Might you do 2d6 +35 damage. 

okay not that great but hey 37-47 points of damage from an arrow ain't to shabby. Later on if you have Power Shot from 3 levels of Peerless Archer it would be (at +20 BAB) 57-67 without any critical factors. If you critical with Assassins Senses it would be 228-268 hps of damage.

Still it isn't a must have feat since it requires that you only fire one arrow that round (probally a Full Attack Action).


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## Jeph (Sep 29, 2002)

Whoops! Calculated the Cuncussions for the Astral Construct smack as if they were 1d6: They're 3. So that would be +39-40 damage! Just a _wee bit_ different from +13.1!


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## Jeremy (Sep 30, 2002)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *Oh common, this is my first smack, and you people act like you don't even care?
> 
> *sniffles*
> 
> ...




Sorry, weekend and all, out doing stuff.

For a first try it's not bad.

Couple of pointers, the whole "blind, deaf, dumb" thing could be taken as a jab by the low power/low magic readers, or as a reason to roll eyes for the high power/high complexity readers.  Nothing an edit couldn't fix though.

Second, try to keep the smackdown level to 16.  At 20th level a character has access to 760,000 gp of equipment and is capable of just about anything.  A smackdown is little enough challenge these days at 16th level.  At 20th level it's kinda tame.

Also, it's a modified time stop/summon critter repeatedly smack.  Besides not being all that inventive, it's not very exciting.  Sure a 20th level psion who somehow manages to be that close on accident to a foe without it knowing he is there could trash it by speeding himself up in time to the point he can use all his power points in a single round.  Time Stop-Quickened Substituted Firebrand-Twinned Substituted Firebrand-Twinned Substituted Firebrand-repeats is just as deadly...

Throw some feats, magical items, or interesting tactics in there to spice things up a bit, bring down the level a bit, and show us a good application of it.  

Most of all, have some fun with it.


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## Arcanus (Sep 30, 2002)

What else could be done to a Cleric Archer that I haven't already mentioned?

Besides using Keen Edge on weapons.


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## Tharkun (Sep 30, 2002)

*Was thinking...*

These are some pretty amazing amounts of damage & "to hit" but has anyone done a single class with the smackdown?  And if not why not?


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## Corlon (Sep 30, 2002)

*I'm sorry if this has already been posted but...*

i really don't have time to read ALL of these, so...

_Wizard 5/Psion 1/Summoner10_ (summoner is from relics and rituals)
items:  boots of speed
Bunch of power stones with the psionic time stop thingy
a couple rings of wizardry, and whatever else upgrades the # of spells a wizard can cast (I leave this up to you)

1st round (surprise round):  Activate boots of speed, use extra partial action to use one of the power stones.
2nd round (and third, fourth, etc. [till the time stop runs out]) :
cast quickened level 8 summon monster spells (the summoner lets you do this WITHOUT the level upgrade, and it would also count as a summon monster 9 ), then repeat this again and again, until you run out of level 8 spells, then rever to 7, 6, 5, 4, etc., all the way down to 0 (there really should be a summon monster zero).  Whenever the power stone runs out, just use another one, and don't worry about the person you're killing, they'll have enough on there hands   
If the summoner was a bit higher level, so that she could cast level 9 spells, then this would be very cool, because the summoner could use summon monster nine to summon her patron *DEITY* or *POWERFUL OUTSIDER* and also summon a bunch of summon monster 9 creatures (1d4+1 of em every time because of summoner).

Oh yeah, and the wizard specializes in conjuration (who would've guessed?? )

Kinda like a psion who summons astral constructs (should be in here somewhere, like I said, I haven't read the ALL), but much more varied in the type of monster thats about to kill you...

of course, since its a wizard, you could use stuff like disentigrate or polymorph other, but wheres the fun in that??


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## Corlon (Sep 30, 2002)

*and another that might have been posted*

not a lot of damage but still very fun
Ranger/tempest
Items:  boots of speed
Feats:  Exotic weapon pro (bladed gauntlet) (can you see where this is going  )
Improved crit (bladed gauntlet)
power crit

make the bladed gauntlets keen and vorpal, and with the many attacks per round, and the "9-20/head gets cut off" crit range, you're gonna hit at least once.  Not to mention that power crit gives you an automatic threat.

Oh yeah, and potions of true strike


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## Orco42 (Sep 30, 2002)

*Re: and another that might have been posted*



			
				Corlon said:
			
		

> *not a lot of damage but still very fun
> Ranger/tempest
> Items:  boots of speed
> Feats:  Exotic weapon pro (bladed gauntlet) (can you see where this is going  )
> ...




That would only be a crit on a 15+ (the errata has the crit at 19+). Post errata you could through in a few levels of weapon master and have a crit on 7+.

Now the best would be a 10+ with a Weapon Master with Imp. Crit and a Keen Scimitar.


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## Jeremy (Sep 30, 2002)

To the previous poster who wanted a single class smackdown, most of the first smackdowns are single class.  Paladin, Rogue, Cleric, etc...  As to the reason they are less frequent now, is because we have more resources at our disposal.  To truly maximize the capabilities of a concept, you must use all your tools.    But they are there on the first page at the top if you want.

As to Corlon, you've got a couple of problems.    But that's ok, all smackdowns do, and they need a few revisions at first.

First, again, this is just another time stop/summon monster routine.

Second, you've only got so many 8th level spells available to you at 16th level.  Probably only 3.  If you are suggesting you use rings of wizardry to double that, you've got a couple of problems.  First, DMG rings of wizardry don't extend that high, I suppose a DM could allow you to make one, but doubling 8th level slots is dangerous enough that he probably wouldn't.  Second, it wouldn't help anyways with your super summons, see the next problem.  

Third, the super summon from the Summoner prestige class you refer to (and I should know, Collin in my story hour is one), does allow you to use one of your bonus metamagic feats without spell slot increase, but only on a domain-spell-like extra slot you get at each spell level.  Meaning at 16th level, you've got one 8th level, one 7th level, one 6th level, and so on.

Also, maximize or twin spell might work better since summon monster spells take a full round to cast and cannot be quickened.

Finally, what is the unique idea of this smack?  Using the super summons?  What creatures would you summon, how would you use them?  Have you got any spells to make them work better?  Feats?  Magical items?  Rings of Blue Conjures, Augment Summoning, Mass Haste, Contingency, they could all make this smack better.

Taking one level of psion and blowing through psionic time stop scrolls is something just about any smack could add.  We generally avoid doing scroll dependant smackdowns because it means you can only do it once.  And because it isn't your own talents you are using, but the talents of the person who made the scroll (or power stone in this case).

I suppose you could make a 6th level smackdown (because of the spellcraft and intelligence requirements) where in a wizard cast time stop from a scroll, two meteor swarms from scrolls, then another time stop from a scroll, then two more meteor swarms, but that's not very fun is it?  

Perhaps some revisions could make your smackdown more enjoyable.


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## Jeremy (Sep 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: and another that might have been posted*



			
				Orco42 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That would only be a crit on a 15+ (the errata has the crit at 19+). Post errata you could through in a few levels of weapon master and have a crit on 7+.
> 
> Now the best would be a 10+ with a Weapon Master with Imp. Crit and a Keen Scimitar. *




Yeah.  On a half-fiend polymorphed into a six armed marillith with greater multiweapon fighting and haste.

7-20 crits, vorpal hits, 17 attacks per round...  Of course, at 16th level you couldn't afford 6 vorpal swords, so that kinda falls apart.

These smackdowns aren't very maximized lately...  

Carpe!  Where are you?


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## Deset Gled (Sep 30, 2002)

*Naked Smackdown*

The Naked Smackdown 
A human character with no weapons, no armor, no magic items, no spellcasting ability, and no buffs.  The attackee does not need to be anything specific, but must be of good or evil alignment.

*Character:*
15th level Martial Artist, 1st level Monk

Necessary Abilities:
22 Str (18 base + 4 from levels)
16 Wis

Necessary Feats:
Boxing
Fiery Strike
Focus Ki
Inner Light/Darkness
Kickboxing
Mighty Strike
Power Attack
Steel Limbs
Thunder Strike
One more feat from the Hard Feats category
Style Mastery - Unyielding Fury

Necessary Martial Secrets:
Fire Advocate
Lightning Flurry
Rhino Hide
Stunning Fist

*The Attack:*
The base attack bonus of this character is +15.  To this, apply +6 from Str, -3 for using Lightning Flurry while surging, and -4 for using Mighty Strike.  Using the monks rate of unarmed attacks, this give you attacks at +14/+14/+14/+11/+8/+5/+2.

The base damage for this character is 1d20 according to the rules of multiclassing a martial artist with a monk.  Using Mighty Strike raises this damage to 4d6 per hit.

Additionally, the first strike is a Stunning Attack (to make the following attacks easier), as well as a Finishing move, adding +4d6 damage.

Using up another stunning attack, apply the Inner Light/Darkness feat (depending on what alignment the creature is) to add +1d6 each attack.

Add +6 Str bonus to each hit.

The Unyielding Fury style mastery adds +1 per hit.

The Fire Advocate martial secret adds a +1 competence bonus to all damage rolls.

Make the second attack a Thunder Strike (at the cost of a third stunning attack) to add +4 (1+wis bonus) points of damage, as well as to further discombobulate the creature.

Make the third attack a Fiery Strike (at the cost of a fourth stunning attack) to add +4 (1+wis bonus) points of damage.

This brings total damage to:
4d6 * 7 + 4d6 + 1d6 * 7 + 6*7 + 1*7 + 1*7 + 4 + 4 =
39d6 + 64 =
136.5(avg) +64 =
*200.5 damage* in one round.

Since the attackee is stunned, feel free to repeat for as long as you have stunning attacks (which probably won't be for very long if you use Fiery Strike, Thunder Strike, and Inner Light/Darkness, ).

*Notes:*
The Naked Smackdown is a very minimalist smackdown.  It barely breaks 200 damage, but does so without using any magic (though some abilities are supernatural), or any objects (magical or otherwise).  It also does not use any prestige classes, nor any feats or other special rules besides those in the PHB and Beyond Monks.

The character could easily be a half orc rather than a human.  This would give them one less feat, and as such they wouldn't qualify for either Fire Advocate or Unyielding fury, but the +2 racial bonus to strength would leave the total damage the same.

This smack also works assuming that even though the character cannot make multiple stunning attacks in one round, they can still give up some of their extra stun attacks to use different ki attacks.  I believe this is legal according to a very strict reading of the rules, but some DMs may hae a problem with it.  Also, note that the stunning fist must be taken by the Matrial Artist as a feat (even though the monk already has it) soley for the purpose of gaining enough stunning attacks.

It makes the most sense to take the feat Weapon Focus: Unarmed Attack as the character's one more Hard feat, but I decided to leave it open because I'm assuming that all of the attacks hit anyway, so it doesn't make any difference in damage calculation.

Finally, this is my first attempt at a smackdown.  Any comments?  Has anyone done a smack similar to this before?


----------



## Corlon (Sep 30, 2002)

*I know*



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *
> 
> To the previous poster who wanted a single class smackdown, most of the first smackdowns are single class.  Paladin, Rogue, Cleric, etc...  As to the reason they are less frequent now, is because we have more resources at our disposal.  To truly maximize the capabilities of a concept, you must use all your tools.    But they are there on the first page at the top if you want.
> 
> ...



I typed both of those in about a total of 3 minutes, so I didn't really think through it
I wasn't suggesting ring of wizardry for 8th level, I was just saying for 3 level spells, a couple monsters could be usefull. 

And, darn it, I knew there was a reason why I was never a summoner before 

If this was twentieth level, then it would be more fun 

can't afford vorpal? oops, my bad.

and... all I've got ta say is that these smack characers are really cheap


----------



## Jeremy (Sep 30, 2002)

Nah.  20th level is boring.  With 760,000 gp you can accomplish anything.  If anything is possible, then how is doing 200 damage or 2000 damage exciting?

That's why I haven't worked on any epic smacks yet, what is impressive for 20th level?  What's impressive for 40th?  We don't know yet.  We haven't played at those levels for long enough in 3e rules yet, I don't think.

But we will.


----------



## Victim (Oct 1, 2002)

The funny thing about epic smackdowns is that you can get rid of those crappy potions of true strike, and instead use the gloves of true striking that everyone went crazy over when the DMG first came out.


----------



## Jeph (Oct 1, 2002)

Just a twist on the "borring" stop time / summon stuff repeatedly smack . . . You should have enough $ left over to buy a bag of holding and 7 sets of Boots of Speed. Now, if you set Contingency to re-casto-or-manifest your time stop ability when the first one ends, and throw a pair of Bts o' Spd to each of your summoned creatures . . . Well, I think that you can figure out the rest.


----------



## 1337 h4xor (Oct 1, 2002)

did anyone ever do a 10th level smackdown? i think it'd be interesting as you would only have been able to have gotten a few PRC levels.


----------



## Jeremy (Oct 1, 2002)

Except that you can only contingency spells of up to 6th level.  

As for 10th level smackdowns and lower, they are in a different thread.


----------



## 1337 h4xor (Oct 1, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *
> As for 10th level smackdowns and lower, they are in a different thread.   *




yea i found them, and there were like 3 actual characters posted in the 3 different threads i found...lol. the rest was just talk.


----------



## Noldor Elf (Oct 1, 2002)

*Superb Critical*

Problem: Allowing weapon master with longbow as weapon of choice requires DM approval (is against flavor text)

Race: Elf
Abilities: 
DEX 20 (base) + 4 (level) + 6 (gloves of dexterity) = 30 (+10)
STR 16
INT 13

Classes: Fighter 7/Weapon Master 2/Deepwood Sniper 7

Feats: 6(levels) +4(fighter) = 10
1st level: Point Blank Shot, Far shot
2nd: Combat reflexes
3rd: Expertise
4th: Weapon Focus: Longbow
6th: Dodge, Mobility
9th: Spring Attack
12th: Whirlwind attacl
15th: Weapon Specialization: Longbow

BAB: +7 + 2 + 7 = +16

Tactic: On preparation round: drink potion of Hunter's Mercy
On your turn shoot one arrow to the target.

To hit:
16 (BAB) + 10 (DEX) + 1 (weapon focus) + 3(oathbow) + 2 (Bracers of archery + 4 (arrow) = + 35
If rolled poorly, can reroll once.

Damage: 2d8 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 3d6 (icy, shocking and flaming)

Using potion of Hunter's Mercy and increased multiplier 
Damage: (2d8 + 2 + 3 + 4)x7 + 3d6 + 6d10 (shocking burst) + 6d10 (icy burst) + 6d10 (flaming burst) 
Max damage: 175 + 18 + 60 + 60 + 60 = 373
Average damage: 126 + 10 + 33 + 33 + 33 =235

Abilities:
Improved Critical +2
Consistent Aim
Icreased multiplier 1/day

Items:
Oathbow (Mighty +3) (+3, DMG: 2d8, Crit x4) 
+4 Shocking burst, icy burst, flaming burst arrow 
Bracers of archery
Gloves of Dexterity (+6)

(Edited feats and items)


----------



## Bloodstone (Oct 1, 2002)

weapon master is a technically a melee only class. Even if it was not, you need Spring attack and whirlwind attack to enter it, which the above character does not have.  Furthermore, Power Critical only works with me melee weapons, so unless you are stabing the guy with the arrow that feat won't work...


----------



## novyet (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: Naked Smackdown*



			
				Deset Gled said:
			
		

> *The Naked Smackdown
> A human character with no weapons, no armor, no magic items, no spellcasting ability, and no buffs.  The attackee does not need to be anything specific, but must be of good or evil alignment.
> 
> Character:
> ...




Actually I'm interested in this one. Where did the abilities come from? They look pretty interesting. 

Thanks


----------



## Deset Gled (Oct 1, 2002)

*Beyond Monks*



> Actually I'm interested in this one. Where did the abilities come from? They look pretty interesting.




A lot of that stuff comes from a book called "Beyond Monks", published by Chainmail Bikini Games.  It's basically another book aimed at enhancing melee combat a bit.  The Martial Artist class comes from there.  To quote: "A martial artist is a character devoted to mastering combat, much like a fighter or a monk. Unlike the fighter, the martial artist avoids heavy weapons or armor and relies more on precision, knowledge, and skill than brute force. Unlike the monk, the martial artist is focused purely on combat techniques, and doesn’t seek spiritual enlightenment or gain much in the way of supernatural powers."

The "martial secrets" that I mentioned are a special feature of the martial artist class, and are basically a list of special abilities that you get to choose as you progress.  The martial artist also gets a few bonus feats along the way (though not as many as a fighter).  Most of the feats that I took for the smack, as well as the style mastery, came from that book as well.


----------



## novyet (Oct 1, 2002)

Very nice. I had thought of buying that pdf, but now I see it should be worthwhile. Thanks!


----------



## Corlon (Oct 1, 2002)

*WAIT, I'm determined to make a smack that works!*

*mini creatures kill you smack* 
_Druid7/Tamer of Beasts 9_ 
ussuming that a cockroach has 1/8 HD, and since paragon doesn't affect the HD, this character could have...256 paragon cockroaches, these are about 16HP, +20 attack, 20 damage, I think.  And since these creatures are fine, you can fit A BUNCH in a square, and if they all hit, this is a great deal more than 200 damage.

I know this isn't very exact, but you guys can figure this out 

And for the problems:  I don't have the epic handbook, and I've only seen it twice soo.. if I've missed something on paragon please tell me.
A few arguments I've heard is that...
Paragon creatures are magical:  Well, level 9 tamer of beasts can tame magical creatures
There in only ONE paragon animal of each type:  In this case, One paragon cockroach, grasshopper, cricket, black ant, red ant, fire ant, honey bee, killer bee, monkey, chicken, bat, rat, etc.

Any problems with this one, besides the fact that you couldn't find this many paragons, theres bound to be some


----------



## Xeriar (Oct 1, 2002)

A Paragon insect would be a sentient, free-willed creature.  Would the spell allow you to control treants or thri-kreen?


----------



## Corlon (Oct 1, 2002)

*Strength...Fading, Health...Falling SMACK* 
_Rouge 16_ 
Feats:
Hair Trigger Reflexes
Rapid Shot
Brew Poison
Quicker Than the Eye
Skill Focus (or craft poison)
Skills:  Alchemy (or craft poison)
Items:  Bow, Arrows (preferably magical) that are previously posioned
Boots of Speed
Anything that ups Alchemy Checks (or craft poison checks)
Poison wells
Surprise Round:  Activate boots of speed, drink potion of true strike
1st Round:  Hair Trigger Reflexes to go first, shoot with rapid shot.
2nd Round:  If they aren't hurt enough, use quicker than the eye, and repeat.

This poison does 3d6 of two ability scores (decide which, for this, its strength and con.) with a Save DC of 40, if you want to know how I did this, check Traps and Treachery, wait jusa sec while I calculate the DC to make it  ....
its... 60, okay, so how about 3d6 con both times, that mkaes it 45, hmm, a bit hard, dang...
Save DC=...

okay, lets start over (I don't believe in backspace)
Save DC=30, initial damage=unconsciousnes
This would require a DC of 35, pretty easy.
Once they are unconscious, then use slit their throat 
I haven't calculated the exact + to the ability a rouge could have (as you can probably see) so add to the DC as you so choose

Edit:  throat, not sloat


----------



## JimSmiley (Oct 5, 2002)

*The Gauntlet Monster Generator*

Total level 12

Here is a sort of Smackdown I came up with while looking into some of the Mind's Eye
Psionic Web Enhancements found on the WotC D&D site.

While this smack doesn't live up to the 200 points of damage in one round, it does
do between 635 to 1397 points of damage in 4 rounds (Maximum 2286) at the character's
12th Level.  After those 4 rounds the damage (if not stopped) has the duration for 11
minutes doing between 302 to 704 points of damage a round (Maximum 1152).  Basically
The Psion/Constructor summons as many beefed up Astral Constructs a round as possible.


Sources used:
PHB, DMG, Psionic's Handbook, The Mind's Eye (WotC D&D Webpage)

Human Psion 6 / Constructor 6 (Mind's Eye) 
Total manifester level 11

Items: (total 88K gp for level 12)
Torc of Psionic Might (10K gp)
Headband of Intellect +6 (36K gp)
Psionic Tattoo Schism (750gp)
Crystal Capacitor 11 PP (36K gp)

Total 82,750 gp

Int = 27 (base 18, +3 Levels, +6 Headband of Intellect (36K gp))

PowerPoints = 96 (base 52, +44 Bonus from 27 Int @ level 11)

Feats from Levels:
Twin Power
Quicken Power
Augment Construction (Mind's Eye) +1 on attack rolls
3x Empower Construction (Mind's Eye) +1 Astral Construct menu ability

Feat's from classes:
Advanced Construction (Mind's Eye) not used
Extended Construction (Mind's Eye) not used
2x Infused Construction (Mind's Eye) Increase Metapsionic cap +3 base, +2 for each after
2x Efficient Construction (Mind's Eye) For each -1 PP when casting constructs
Enhanced Construction (Mind's Eye) + 1d3 Astral Constructs summoned at 2 Levels lower
Ecto Manipulation (Mind's Eye) Change up menu abilities at a 2 for 1 basis
Empower Construction (Mind's Eye) +1 Astral Construct menu ability

Total Metapsionic cap = 15 PP (base 10, +3 Infused, +2 2nd Infused)

Round 1:
	Primary Mind:
	10 PP (5+8-3) Quickened Astral Construct 3, (1d4+1 AC 1) + 1d3 AC 1 (Enhanced Construction)
	Activate Psionic Tattoo Schism
	Schism Mind:
	(Begins) 17 PP (5+5+8-3+2) Twinned Astral Construct 3 

	Average Astral Constructs this Round: 5 AC 1
	Total Average Astral Constructs: 5 AC 1

Round 2:
	Primary Mind:
	10 PP (5+8-3) Quickened Astral Construct 3, 1d4+2+1d3 Astral Construct 1
	(Begins) 15 PP (5+5+8-3) Twinned Astral Construct 3 
	Schism Mind:
	(Ends) 0 PP Twinned Astral Construct 3, 2d4+2+2d3 Astral Construct 1

	Average Astral Constructs this Round: 16 AC 1
	Total Average Astral Constructs: 21 AC 1

Round 3:
	Primary Mind:
	10 PP (5+8-3) Quickened Astral Construct 3, 1d4+2+1d3 Astral Construct 1
	(Ends) 0 PP Twinned Astral Construct 3, 2d4+2+2d3 Astral Construct 1
	(Begins) 15 PP (5+5+8-3) Twinned Astral Construct 3 
	Schism Mind:
	(Begins) 17 PP (5+5+8-3) Twinned Astral Construct 3 

	Average Astral Constructs this Round: 16 AC 1
	Total Average Astral Constructs: 37 AC 1

Round 4:
	Primary Mind:
	10 PP (5+8-3) Quickened Astral Construct 3, 1d4+2+1d3 Astral Construct 1
	(Ends) 0 PP Twinned Astral Construct 3, 2d4+2+2d3 Astral Construct 1
	Schism Mind:
	(Ends) 0 PP Twinned Astral Construct 3, 2d4+2+2d3 Astral Construct 1

	Average Astral Constructs this Round: 27 AC 1
	Total Average Astral Constructs: 64 AC 1

Total PP 104
Crystal Capacitor for 10 PP of 11PP
94 of 96 PP spent

Each Astral Construct has the duration 11 Minutes (Extended construction)

Each Astral Construct 1 has 5 Abilities from Menu A (4x Empower Construction)
1 Menu A ability: 
	Fly 60' (Average)
1 Menu C ability (2 A abilities = 1 B ability, 2 B abilities = 1 C ability):
	Concussion 3d6 Force damage as free action (Range 110', Fort Save for Half)

As the Astral Constructs come into play they immediately scatter doing a double move of 120' flying
Using their Concussion when they come within 110' of their target(s)

Damage
Round 1:
	MAX: 90 (5 * 3 * 6)
	Average (not making saves): 55 (5 * (11 ~AVE(3d6))
	Average (making saves): 25 (5 * ((11 ~AVE(3d6)) / 2)
Round 2:
	MAX: 378 (21 * 3 * 6)
	Average (not making saves): 231 (21 * (11 ~AVE(3d6))
	Average (making saves): 105 (21 * ((11 ~AVE(3d6)) / 2)
Round 3:
	MAX: 666 (37 * 3 * 6)
	Average (not making saves): 407 (37 * (11 ~AVE(3d6))
	Average (making saves): 185 (37 * ((11 ~AVE(3d6)) / 2)
Round 4:
	MAX: 1152 (64 * 3 * 6)
	Average (not making saves): 704 (64 * (11 ~AVE(3d6))
	Average (making saves): 320 (64 * ((11 ~AVE(3d6)) / 2)

Total:
	MAX: 2286 (90 + 378 + 666 + 1152)
	Average (not making saves): 1397 (55 + 231 + 407 + 704)
	Average (making saves): 635 (25 + 105 + 185 + 320)


What do you think?


----------



## Jeremy (Oct 5, 2002)

That is very creative and VERY effective.

I was going to say, at 12th level, what's the point of having AC 1's...  They aren't going to last long in melee, they aren't likely to hit, and they won't do a lot of damage.

But you are using them more like Lantern Archons, flying around out of melee reach and 3d6 concussion'ing away.  Very nice.

Kudos!


----------



## reapersaurus (Oct 6, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: and another that might have been posted*



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *These smackdowns aren't very maximized lately...
> 
> Carpe!  Where are you? *



Ya, these last couple months' entries have been .......   less than stellar, IMO.


----------



## Corlon (Oct 7, 2002)

*heheh*

I just have to post this 
*Shocker Lizard Smack* 
You could do this with a tamer of beasts but...

Get a bunch (and I mean a BUNCH) of shocker lizards in one spot, and have a 16th level wizard cast teleport without error on them to the middle of a big clump of enemies and... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, a lv 7 druid/lv 9 TOB could have 16 shocker lizards, not a whole bunch 




> A Paragon insect would be a sentient, free-willed creature



this would give them a will save, nothing more


----------



## Xeriar (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: heheh*



			
				Corlon said:
			
		

> *this would give them a will save, nothing more *




At a minimum of +20 or so, sure.


----------



## (Psi)SeveredHead (Oct 7, 2002)

You can create up to 60 Astral Construct Vs per round with a shaper 6/constructor 10. 90 if you use a munchkin loophole. I don't need any astral construct 1s.

Apply Overpower to the number of constructs you can create


----------



## pvrhye (Oct 7, 2002)

*smackdowns*

For the tidy cleric who doesn't like leave a mess of his enemies 

-destruction domain
-spell focus (evocation for implosion, transmutation for disentigrate)
-greater spell focus

13 levels of cleric, 5 levels of heirophant
wis 22 (18 + level enhancements)

take spell power for all heirphant levels.
cast a maximized wisdom enhancer on yourself (owl's I think)

then nail em with disentigrate DC 29 then you add in magic gear.


And for the fighter who wants his oponent unarmed and on his ass

power attack, cleave, sunder, improved sunder, expertise, imprved trip and knockdown.

Sunder thier weaponwhich provkes a cleave onto then which provoces knockdown.  They are unarmed, hurt and on thier ass in 1 attack.

Paul


----------



## Leopold (Oct 7, 2002)

18 levels breaks the max of 16 levels for a smackdown..


----------



## Jeremy (Oct 7, 2002)

Not to mention that Veldrane posted a _16_th level cleric using the spell destruction already.  His save is a little higher.  

Check out his full post earlier in the thread for this little gem.



			
				Veldrane said:
			
		

> *Evil Wizard, kneel to The Lady
> 
> Spellcasting Cleric DC Smackdown
> 
> ...


----------



## Corlon (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: heheh*



			
				Xeriar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> At a minimum of +20 or so, sure. *




 
You could always tie em down, then cast it again and again and again you'll get it by at most #20 (statistically)

And don't get with the "thats not very friendly", because as long as you WANT and WILL be their friend, then you can cast it


----------



## 1337 h4xor (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: smackdowns*



			
				pvrhye said:
			
		

> *Sunder thier weaponwhich provkes a cleave onto then which provoces knockdown.  They are unarmed, hurt and on thier ass in 1 attack.
> 
> Paul *




how does sundering a weapon provoke a cleave? it says when you drop an enemy/opponent so unless it's some sort of dancing animated weapon you sunder it's not going to work.


----------



## reapersaurus (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: smackdowns*



			
				1337 h4xor said:
			
		

> *how does sundering a weapon provoke a cleave? it says when you drop an enemy/opponent so unless it's some sort of dancing animated weapon you sunder it's not going to work. *



because that was his very first post on these boards, and he actually had the audacity to try to add to the Smackdown thread. 

And in the powergaming vein, I take pride in having 2 characters in a row nerfed because the DM's of online games didn't want them overpowered.


----------



## Jeremy (Oct 8, 2002)

Audacity?  I'd call it inspired courage.

He read the thread, liked it, and gathered up his courage and/or his patience for signing up for membership, and tried his hand.

More posters the better.  Those that don't do well can have improvements pointed out to them and may become better with time and/or revisions, those that DO do well add to our wonderful collection.

Good or bad, it's better posted than not.  Posted at least serves a purpose.


----------



## Azure Trance (Oct 9, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *That is very creative and VERY effective.
> 
> I was going to say, at 12th level, what's the point of having AC 1's...  They aren't going to last long in melee, they aren't likely to hit, and they won't do a lot of damage.
> 
> ...




I'm sure if you use Monte Cook's variant Psion from "If Thoughts Could Kill" you'd get even more PPs.


----------



## Urbanmech (Oct 11, 2002)

Psion/Meditant Smackdown (using If Thoughts Could Kill and The Mind's Eye)

Ok so this one doesn't do 200+ damage in one round but it can generate 4 DC 35+ Save or Die effects in one round.

Human Psion 9 (Savant)/Meditant 7 (From Wizards site)
Relevant starting stats 18 Con.
18 +4 from level, +6 Amulet of Health, +5 Manual =33 Constution (+11 modifier)

Primary Disipline Psychokinesis, Secondary Telepathy and Psychometabolic.

Feats: Extend Power, Psionic focus Psychokinesis, Greater Psionic Focus Psychokinesis,  Psychic Meditation: Crown (+3 Natural Armor), Heart (+3 temporary hp per level max 42), Third Eye (+1 temporary PP per level), Solar Plexus (+2 to one save, +1 to others), Throat (+2 Int, Wis, Cha), Base (+2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con), Sachral (+3 to Primary disipline DC's, +1 to all others)
Intense Psychic Meditation (added to values of regular meditation): Sachral (+2 to Primary disipline DC's, +1 to all others), Third Eye (+1 temporary PP per level), Solar Plexus (+2 one save, +1 all others), Base (+2 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con)

Meditation feats are activated by 1 minute of meditation and the effects last 2 hours.

Magic Items: Amulet of Health +6, Manual of Health +5, Torc of Psionic Might, Psionatrix of Psychokinesis x2. 

Final PP: 228
Important Powers: Fission, Disintegrate, Schism 

Start off by manifesting a Extended Fission (12 PP) (double has 108 PP) and hand double a Psionatrix of Psychokinesis.

Both sit down to meditate, gaining +3 Natual Armor, +42 temporary HP, +30 temporary PP, +4 to Reflex Saves, +2 to Fort and Will, +2 Int, Wis, Cha, +5 DC to Psychokinesis powers +2 to all others, and +4 Str, Dex, Con.

This gives your double a Con of 31 so its DC will be 1 lower then yours and 138 PP.

Find and unsuspecting enemy and during the suprise round both Manifest Schism.

1st Round both manifest a regular Disintegrate and a schism Disintegrate.

DC for your Disintegrate: 1d20 +11 Con, +5 Psychic Meditation, +4 Psionic Focus, +1 Psionatrix, +6 Power level = 1d20 +26

DC for your fission's Disintegrate: 1d20 +10 Con, +5 Psychic Meditation, +4 Psionic Focus, +1 Psionatrix, +6 Power level = 1d20 +25

Both of you still have enough PP to keep up the double Disintegrate for about 4 rounds.

Can anyone think of any improvements?


----------



## Jeph (Oct 12, 2002)

*All your crit are belong to us*

Relevant stats: Str, base of 18, +4 level, +6 belt, +4 manual, total 32 
Class: Cleric (some diety with Destruction and Trickery domains that favors the Bastard Sword, hell make him up) 1 / Fighter 6 / Templar 5 / Cavalier 2 / Weapon Master 2
Items: +1 Keen Flaming Burst, Shocking Burst, Acid Burst, mercurial bastard sword, Manual of Gainful Exercise +2, Belt of Gian Strength +6

Feats: All the prereqs you need for the PrCs, Improved Critical

Relavant Special Abilities: Smite (+6 damage, from Templar / Cleric), Deadly Charge (from Cavalier), Luck domain (from Cleric), Weapon Specialization (from Templar), Increased Multiplier (from Weapon Master)

Tactics: Okay, on the first round of combat, you make an attack with a x7 damage multiplier. How? Here's how.

Crit 18-20, Luck domain lets you reroll. We'll just assume you make one of the rolls.

x4 base critical multiplier
x3 Deadly Charge
+1 Increased Critical

So, you have a base damage of 2d8, +2 from Specialization, +1 enhancement, +10 strength, +6 Smite, total 2d8+20.
THEN: +5d10/1d6 Flaming Burst, +5d10/1d6 Acid Burst, +5d10/1d6 Shocking Burst. 

for a total of: 14d8+133+15d10+3d6

average damage:

(14x4.5 =) 63
+133
+(15x5.5=)82.5
+(3x3.5=) 10.5
-------------------
289

*SMACK!!!*


----------



## Corlon (Oct 12, 2002)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *All your crit are belong to us
> 
> Relevant stats: Str, base of 18, +4 level, +6 belt, +4 manual, total 32
> Class: Cleric (some diety with Destruction and Trickery domains that favors the Bastard Sword, hell make him up) 1 / Fighter 6 / Templar 5 / Cavalier 2 / Weapon Master 2
> ...





Lets just say that I rolled the critical 

Just get power critical


----------



## Elric (Oct 15, 2002)

Single-class Cleric Level 11 Archer Smack:

Race: Elf

Dex: 20 + 3 levels = 23
With Cat's Grace, say 26

Domains: Elf, War 

Feats: Weapon Focus: Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell


Items: Oathbow (Mighty Composite +4), Bead of Karma, Bracers of Archery, Boots of Speed

Spells cast: Greater Magic Weapon x2, Persistent Divine Favor (all 3 in advance), Divine Power

Attacks (at Point Blank): +11 BaB + 15 Magic/Luck + 8 Dex + 2 Bracers + 2 Feats= 38

Hasted, IMP Rapid Shot, having used Oathbow so +38/+38/+38/+33/+28
for 1d8+ 15 Magic + 4 Str +1 feat + 1 bracers= 1d8+21
Multiply by two, so 51/arrow

Assume that all 5 arrows hit--> 250 damage.  

Improved Rapid Shot isn't really needed.  You can do this with just the FR Elf Domain and Persistent Spell.  Even those aren't really needed.  If you don't get Imp RS, you have an extra feat to take PBS.  Persistent Spell is only for Divine Favor here, but you really like the +4 caster level from Beads of Karma being used on all 3 buff spells and it means that you preparation is only one round (activate Boots, cast Divine Power).


----------



## CRGreathouse (Oct 15, 2002)

Corlon said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Lets just say that I rolled the critical
> 
> Just get power critical *




I thought Power Critical was just for melee weapons -- was I wrong?

The chance of a crit in the build you quoted was 26% against a low AC.


----------



## shilsen (Oct 15, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *I thought Power Critical was just for melee weapons -- was I wrong?*




You're correct. The feat specifically refers to a "melee attack".


----------



## Corlon (Oct 15, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I thought Power Critical was just for melee weapons -- was I wrong?
> 
> The chance of a crit in the build you quoted was 26% against a low AC. *




I thought he was using a mercurial bastard sword, was I wrong?


----------



## CRGreathouse (Oct 15, 2002)

OK, no more posting at night for me!  I was confusing it with the archer smack below it, I guess...

(I'll cunningly draw attention away from my mistake by pointing out that the weapon now deals 2d6/x4 damage post-errata.)


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## Endur (Oct 16, 2002)

*re: All your crit are belong to us*

Some suggestions for changing/fixing this Smack down.

>All your crit are belong to us

>Relevant stats: Str, base of 18, +4 level, +6 belt, +4 manual, total 32 
>Class: Cleric (some diety with Destruction and Trickery domains >that favors the Bastard Sword, hell make him up) 1 / Fighter 6 / >Templar 5 / Cavalier 2 / Weapon Master 2

I think you meant Destruction and Luck domains

>Items: +1 Keen Flaming Burst, Shocking Burst, Acid Burst, >mercurial bastard sword, 

I think you meant Mercurial Greatsword.  Also, if you want this mercurial weapon to be the Deity's favored weapon, then the Deity's favored weapon would have to be Mercurial GreatSword (which is a different weapon from the regular Greatsword).

>Manual of Gainful Exercise +2, Belt of >Giant Strength +6

>Feats: All the prereqs you need for the PrCs, Improved Critical

endurance, weapon focus: Mercurial Greatsword, exotic weapon profiency: mercurial greatsword, weapon focus: heavy lance, improved critical: mercurial greatsword, mounted combat, ride by attack, spirited charge, expertise, combat reflexes, dodge, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind attack

14 feats to qualify for all those Prestige classes.  You only have 11 feats (1 for human, 6 for being level 16, 4 for six levels of fighter).  Either drop being a Cavalier or drop being a Weapon Master.  Whichever way you go, I'd recommend picking up Power Critical.  

Furthermore, why not drop the mercurial weapon and just use a lance.  I know its old fashioned, but I'd take a mounted cavalier with a lance anyday over a mounted trooper with a mercurial sword.

<rest snipped>


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## Obsolete (Oct 25, 2002)

This should be something no one else has tried yet.
Maximum tumble check you can get within 20 levels (I know 4 more levels than normally allowed, but who cares)

Fighter 2/Wizard 1/rogue 7/blade dancer 10

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Skill focus (balance), Iron Will, Sea Legs (OA), Mobility

Skills of Note (227,500 gp): Balance 23 ranks, Tumble 23 ranks
Items used: +30 luck skill item of Balance, +30 insight balance item, +30 sacred balance item, +6 dex item, +5 dex Tome.

Ranks 23
Dex: 36 (+13)
Acrobatics (+30)
+2 skill focus
+2 Feat
+2 Synergy bonus from tumble
+90 from item (+30 luck, +30 insight, +30 sacred)


Total Balance check: 1d20 + 162

There walking on clouds while taking -42 before epic levels. Don't you love it?


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## Obsolete (Oct 25, 2002)

Another fun one, Initiative Master. 

GreyElf Samurai 4 /Fighter 2/Iaijutsu Master 10

Feats: Lvl1: Gifted General (OA), Sam 2: Improved Init, Ftr1: Quick Draw, Ftr2: Weapon Focus (Katana), Lvl3: Lightning Init (Quint Fighter), Lvl6: Different School, Lvl9: Way of the Scorpian, Lvl 12: Blooded(FRCS) , Lvl 15: Thug (FRCS), Iai4: Open Iai8: Open 


Dex 34: base 18 ,+2 race, +4 level raises ,+6 Pump Item ,+4 Tome
Cha 24: Base 18, +6 Pump Item
Int 26: Base 18, +2 Race, +6 Pump item
Sword +1 of initative (+4 Luck, OA weapon property flat 20,000gp)

Items cost 240,350gp : Tome of dex 110,000gp, 3 pump item 108000gp (36000 each), Sword +1 of init 22,350

Init Total: +45
dex mod +12
Cha mod +7
Int Mod +8
Improved Init +4
Lightning Init +4
Blooded +2
Thug +2
Gifted General +2
Sword +1 of Initiative +4

Way of the Scorpian is from Rokugon d20 campaign book, its on pg 48. It gives the same benefit that the 2nd level class ability from Bayushi deciever has. Going this route also got me an auto surprise round as well from LVL 10 iaijutsu master 

This smackdown gets even fast if you'd give him 20 levels for the GP in tomes that could buy. So this really hits fast. At 20th level you could alter the levels so that you could have Sighn rager 4 in there and have tons of adamantine katanas to combo it with the Iaijutsu smackdown. All fixed and no conflicts


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## Jeremy (Oct 25, 2002)

LOL

"Init!  Nate?  Jeremy?"

"13"

"55"

<everyone> "WHAT!?"


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## Victim (Oct 25, 2002)

Actually, if you no longer meet the requirements for prestige class, you lose all of its special powers.  So getting rid of the deciever class might be a good idea.


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## Obsolete (Oct 26, 2002)

If the alignment thing should apply then why out of all classes i've looked at do only the Hospitalitor and Holy Liberator make special notes on changing alignment and Ex-Class penalties?

The quote in the DMG i think refers to skill/feat requirements not alignment otherwise those two classes above have a redundant section in them (or possibly poor editing on WotC's part)


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## CRGreathouse (Oct 27, 2002)

I'd agree with Victim on changing alignment with PrCs.


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## Umarth (Oct 27, 2002)

*10th lvl cleric CHARGE!*

Just playing around with what scary things you can make useing a lvl 10 character.  
Takes a while for this guy to warm up but when he charges you he hits damn hard.
You can toss in a Keen Scabbard for fun as well as boots of haste to speed up the prep time.

Oh and if you want the additonal 6 lvls you could do fighter 4 warmaster 2 for the auto crit.  Gets yah another 36 damage off power attack alone.  


9th cleric/1st lvl divine disciple 
Human
18str, 18 wis, 18 cha Base stats
Domains Str, Luck, Madness


+10 BAB with Divine Power (BAB)
+20 True Strike (Domain Spell) (insight)
+14 Str of 38 (natural 18, +2 for lvls, +10str domain, Righteous might, rage [3rd lvl]) 
+4 Greater Magic weapon (Enchancement Weapon) 
+1 Bless (moral) (lvl 1)
+1 Guidence (competance) (lvl 0)
+2 Charge (charge)
+1 Higher Ground (unnamed)
+4 Divine Favor (Luck 1st)
-10 power attack
-1 Size (righteous might as pointed out by CRGreathouse)
+42 to hit

Damage
Iron Wood Sycthe 2d6 x4 (righteous Might 5th lvl)
+10 Power attack 
+10 Brambles (enchancment)
+21str (str)
+30 (flame of faith 3rd)
+4 (divine favor Luck)
+6 (divine might feat)

81 damage x 6 =486 max damage
207 max damage on a non crit

Add Icy burst and shocking to the weapon
+42 (icy shocking burst)
123 x 6 =738 max damage


Magic items
Iron wood sycthe
Rhino Hide armor
Karma Prayer bead necklace
Alt Icy shocking iron wood scythe 



Feats
Martial Weapon Prof (Scythe)
Power Lunge
Power Attack
Divine Might


49,000 gp for 10th lvl cleric
5165 Rhino Hide armor
6000 Prayer necklace Karma
32,000 +? (for iron wood) Iron wood scythe Icy burst, shocking
5835gp left to cover cost of iron wood

edited in size penalty as pointed out by CRGreathouse


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## Obsolete (Oct 27, 2002)

edited Initiative master above so it still legal reguardless of how you read the Alignment issue on prestige classes


----------



## CRGreathouse (Oct 28, 2002)

Umarth -- you forgot the -1 size penalty to attack rolls from _righeous might_.


----------



## Umarth (Oct 28, 2002)

Sight thanks CRGreathouse thought I'd gotten everything.  Appreciate your pointing that out.


----------



## Jeph (Oct 28, 2002)

*I used to be a minor, now I kill people*

Okay, this makes use of the Sohei's Ki Frenzy, the Weapon Master's Increased Multiplier and Ki Crit, and the handy dandy x4 multiplier of the heavy pick.

Level: Sohei 1 / Ranger 1 / Fighter 4 / Weapon Master 10
Relevant Stats: Str 32 (18 base, +4 lvl, +6 belt, +2 tome, +2 Frenzy)
Relevant Feats: Ambidex, 2wf, i2wf, focus (pick), Improved Crit (pick), Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization
Relevant Abilities: Ki Frenzy, Increased Multiplier, Kit Critical, Superior Weapon Focus
Relevant Items: book of str +2, belt of str +6, 2 +1 Flaming Burst Shocking Burst Keen Heavy Pix

Strategy: Use i2wf and Ki Frenzy to get 6 attacks. When you have a 16-20/x5 weapon, this _kills_.

Okay: Attack +15 base, +11 str, +2 focus/sup. focus, +1 magic, total +29. with full attack, +23/+23/+23/+17/+17/+14. Damage for the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th attacks is 1d6+1d6+1d6+11+1+2, for a total of 3d6+14. The other attacks are at 3d6+9. Critical of 20, feat extend range by 1, feat extend range by 1, ability extend range by 2 for 16-20. Multiplier of x4, ability increase by +1, x5. Now, here is the average damage including chance to miss due to opponent's AC, and chance of getting a critical. This is the average damage for one round of  just swinging the pix against AC . . .

27: 404.72
30: 370.95
33: 337.18
36: 303.41
39: 269.64
42: 235.88
45: 202.11

There! It beats 200 damage all the way up to AC 45! Now, do you want to know the maximum damage in a round? that would be . . .

3x5x20
+2x5x15
+1x4x15
+6x6
+23x10
----------
300
+150
+60
+36
+230
----------
776

*SHUNK!*


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## Jeph (Nov 6, 2002)

Just wanted everyone to know that I am recruiting for a IC thread called SMACK: Seriously Munchkinistic Acts of Casual Killing. It will draw heavily from this thread.


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## Asmo (Nov 7, 2002)

Is Sultans of Smack still centered on the 16 lvl cap?
I was browsing all the pages and I couldn´t find a single, really satisfying Archer smackdown based on the 16 lvl cap. They where either faulty or not properly "smack-ish"according to all the comments.
Is there an unspoken champion of the 16 lvl ultimate Archer smack-down? 
Asmo


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## LokiDR (Nov 7, 2002)

Is there a cleric bow smackdown?  I thought I had heard of it, but I can't seem to find one.  Any help?


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## Orco42 (Nov 7, 2002)

*i'll give it a shot*

Alright Jeremy here is my first smack down. It is a bit of a stretch but using only the PHB and Book of Vile Darkness you can have a 3rd level character do horrid amounts of damage.

We will start with a Human Cleric level 3 (only a 14+ wis is needed).

Str 10
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 10
Wis 14
Chr 10

The only spells that are needed are 2x lesser restoration.

Now the tricky part, you need to get infected with the disease Festering Anger (from BoVD).

Once the incubation time is over (usually at least one year) you get a special +2 enhancement bonus to Str (that does stack with itself) every day. Also every day you take 1d3 con damage. Since the max Con you can take is 3, and you heal 1 every day all you need are two lesser restorations and you are set. You still need to attack your enemy (or minions) quite often.

Now just hide yourself away for... well lets just say 5 years. 
365 (day/year) x 5 (years) x 2 (str bonus) = +3650 enh. bonus to str

So then with a Str of 3660 you will have +1825 to hit and damage for melee attacks.

Plus as a bonus you can carry (heavy load) something like 7.51 x 10^221 pounds, not too shabby (the sun is only about 4.4 x 10^30 pounds). 

The only problem is getting you DM to let you be diseased. 

You might be able to trick him by saying it is for roleplaying reasons "My characters family was slain by drow, so now he has a hatred so strong that he has developed Festering Anger. I know it will be a disadvantage but it really fleshes out my character." That works great if the DM does not know you are a munchkin.

Also you might convince the DM to allow you to research some type of Greater Contagion spell to infect someone (yourself, but the DM does not need to know that) with a disease from BoVD.

Plus I think most DM's will let a Limited Wish do such a thing. Of course the cost of having a wizard cast it for you is 2410gp, which is most of you money as a 3rd level character.


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## CRGreathouse (Nov 7, 2002)

An 18-point buy, 3rd level smack?  I love it!

(Sure, no DM will allow it, but so what?  It's .)


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## Orco42 (Nov 7, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> 
> (Sure, no DM will allow it, but so what?  It's .) *




Actually I think I just talked my new DM into it. 

And he's known me for about 2 years, you think he would know better than believe me when I say "I'll be diseased for Role Playing reasons.".

Hehehe.


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## Jeremy (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: i'll give it a shot*



			
				Orco42 said:
			
		

> *So then with a Str of 3660 you will have +1825 to hit and damage for melee attacks.
> 
> Plus as a bonus you can carry (heavy load) something like 7.51 x 10^221 pounds, not too shabby (the sun is only about 4.4 x 10^30 pounds).
> 
> The only problem is getting you DM to let you be diseased. *




LOL!

Good show.  Very low down and dirty.  And diseased.


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## chrisland (Nov 8, 2002)

*magical healing only*

The BoVD states that only magical healing heals the con loss, so if you loose 3pt of Con, you'll need up to three lesser restorations depending of how good your rolls is. 
So if you are playing a Cl 3, you need a wisdom of 22 to have that many lesser restoration. Better play a cleric level 4 with a wisdom of 14.
Now think that you can have access to the contagion spell, it lists the diseases in the core book but a DM should extend it to the disease in the BoVD.
So if you are CL5 and/or have access to the destruction domain (not really needed anyway) you may be able to auto inoculate yourself with the festering anger...no need to wait one year. Humm could be fun to play a cleric dedicated to a disease god a living carrier of disease.
more evilness....


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## Jeph (Nov 8, 2002)

Why not be an elf, and get infected at, say, age of 100? Then, take a break for say about 700 years . . .


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## ZeroFlowne (Nov 8, 2002)

Well, it's not much. 

ZF's Four Way Smack!!! er... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Premise... I'm basically making a composite smack. Iajutsu, Spell-storing daggers, Sneak Attack, and Psionics. 

The Smack can be performed 1x/day, and costs 1000 gp per use. 



Stuff you need:

8 +1 Spell-Storing Daggers
Some rope
An incantitrix cohort (Gained through leadership)
An item of Divine Power 1x/day
An item of Tenser's Transformation 1x/day
A hell of a lot of Ioun Stones.
Ring of +20 to Iajutsu Focus

The classes:

Rog5/Guild thief5/asn1/Rgr1/PsiW2/Ftr2
Iajutsu Focus taken Cross-class each level

The Feats:
(Ranger TWF feats)
Power Attack-Iajutsu
QuickDraw
Leadership
Power Attack
Psionic Weapon
Deep Impact
Combat Reflexes
Expert Tactician
Weapon Focus(dagger)
Improved Initiative

The Cohort:
A Wiz5/Incx8/Acm 2. The rogue's wife. Why? Who cares. She uses a level 8 spell slot to uberbuff the rogue's dex. She uses Create Magic Tattoo every morning, raising her caster level to 18. She has Spell Power +1 and +2. She loads the rogue's daggers with Vampiric Touch. 

The Smack. 

The rogue gets the drop on someone. If not, he wins initiative anyway. He has a 18+(1d4+1 * 4  {Incantrix improved metamagic used to pump up Cat's Grace}) 4(16 levels) +2 (elf!)
= 36 Dex. Not bad. His dex mod is +13, and his init is a mere +22 (IMp. INit, and the SKittish Nerves spell.} Boo, he's last. 

Did I mention he has Divine Power and Tenser's Transformation on him? That makes his bab +24/+19/+14/+9. He's also hasted. Also, whenever he attacks, he gets his extra attack from Expert Tactician (cause he's not a stupid rogue who attacks prepared opponents). He also uses Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. That gives him 8 attacks, at   +22/+22/+22/+22/+17/+17/+12/+7  BAB.  Adding Dexterity, Weapon Focus, and the Greater Magic Weapon spell (he really, really loves that cohort), he has a...

+41/+41/+41+/+41/+36/+36/+31/+26 to hit. *laughs* 

But Wait, there's more... He drained the miniscule power out of 40 dull gray Ioun stones... and now can Deep Impact precisely 8 times. How convenient!

He hits all those attacks as touch attacks, hitting each time (we assume). His damage? We'll get there later. He has a  (18+4 (buckler of command)+9 (incantrix's Eagle Splendor) 31 charisma, 8 ranks in I-Focus (all crossclass) and a ring of +20 to I-focus. That's a +38. Factor in Power Attack -Iajutsu and he pumps out (on average) +9d6 dice of damage.

The SA? 5 Rog/5Gld/1 Asn. 7d6 dice. 

The spell? Vampiric Touch, which deals 9d6 thanks to create magic tattoo.

1d4+2 (at least)  From daggers                
7d6                      Sneak Attack                 
9d6                      Iajutsu                          
9d6                      Vampiric Touch              


His execution? Quickdraw a dagger, attack with it, and drop it. It's attached to him with rope, so if he teleports away or escapes, he won't lose his +2 weapon. 


Now, the damage. On average he can pump out 

(4+21+27+27)*8 each time he does this. How much is that? On average, 632. BTW, each hit forces a massive damage save. 

Not bad for a first time.

Comments?
-ZF

Edit- Oops, forgot to take Weapon Finesse. Also forgot that 5 levels of Guild Thief grants me 2 bonus feats. Ah well.


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## Elder-Basilisk (Nov 9, 2002)

> Is there a cleric bow smackdown? I thought I had heard of it, but I can't seem to find one. Any help?




I seem to recall one but I don't know where. Here's my version though.

30 (or less) point buy Cleric Archer smack

Elvish Clr 16 of Shevarash (FR) or Solonor Thelandira
Domains Elf and War
Str 12 (18 with divine power)
Dex 16 (22 w/ +6 gloves of dexterity)
Constitution 12
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 19 (25 w/+6 periapt)
Charisma 12
(The only really relevant stats here are dexterity and wisdom though)

Feats:
Point Blank shot (elf domain)
Weapon Focus longbow (war domain--extended to composite through S&F flexible weapon focus)
Rapid shot (lvl 1)
Precise Shot (lvl 3)
Extend Spell (lvl 6)
Persistent Spell (lvl 9)
Improved Critical Composite Longbow (lvl 12)
1 free feat

Equipment:
Bracers of Archery
Quiver of Ehlonna
+1 Holy Flaming Acid mighty [+4] composite longbow
10 +1 Human bane arrows
10 +1 Evil Outsider bane arrows
10 +1 Orc bane arrows
10 +1 Giant bane arrows
10 +1 Dragon bane arrows
10 +1 Beast bane arrows
Boots of Speed
Necklace of Prayer beads: Karma
Periapt of Wisdom +6
Gloves of Dexterity +6
(Obviously the necklace and periapt can't be worn at the same time so she takes off the periapt and activates the bead of karma before going to bed and then casts all of her long duration and 24 hour buffs before putting the periapt back on--that way she gets high DCs, bonus spells, and the benefits of the bead of karma)

Spells:
Greater Magic Weapon (+5 bow)
Greater Magic Weapon (+5 arrows--+7 against bane targets)
Persistent Divine Favor (+6/+6)
Persistent Divine Power (18 str, fighter BAB)

BAB +16/+11/+6/+1
Total attack bonus within 30 feet against bane target (she's got enough bane arrows to have one that'll work):
+7 arrow
+5 bow
+1 weapon focus
+1 bracers of archery
+6 Divine Favor
+1 point blank shot
+6 dexterity
Total:+27 to hit

Total damage within 30 feet:
+7 arrow
+5 bow
+2 bracers of archery
+6 divine favor
+1 point blank shot
+4 strength
+1d6 fire
+1d6 acid
+2d6 holy
+2d6 bane

Total average damage bonus per arrow: +42

The smackdown:
Surprise round: Activate boots of speed
Extra partial: Cast Righteous might

First Full round action:
Rapid shot at +40/+40/+35/+30/+25 for 2d6+25+6d6 each
Mean damage against AC 40, according to
http://www.public.asu.edu/~tarchon/munchkin.html
235.32 per round. (Adjusted upward to account for the difference between 1d12 and 2d6 that should probably be around 237.32/round)
Extra partial action: One attack +42 for 2d6+25+6d6
50.35 points of damage on average, excluding criticals

Total mean damage against AC 40: 287.67 /round

The nice bit about this smack is that it's reliable. It would still qualify for a smackdown if the surprise round were eliminated---one full round action should be enough to deal over 200 points of damage with no prep time and no boots of speed.

This smack is also easily expandable. Add Quicken spell into there and a Quickened Searing Light or could jump in. Or add Empower Spell and you get an empowered blade barrier in the extra partial action.

A +5 equivalent weapon is also a little weak for a 16th level character. There's enough money left on the character sheet for a +1 Holy, Flaming, Acid, Shock, Frost bow instead which would deal an extra 2d6 points of damage per arrow.

This smack has the added advantage of still working when facing epic level DRs. DR 50/+7? No problem. These GMWed bane arrows count as 2 higher than their actual enhancement so I've got +7 arrows.

The character also has a bit of flexibility. If you can't get the domains you wanted, you can substitute a regular progression feat for either of them. If you wanted to add even more damage, you could use the extra feat for Templar and add weapon specialization damage to all of the attacks.


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## Elric (Nov 9, 2002)

My level 11 Elf Cleric Smack is on the bottom of page 6.  However, it's not particularly inventive.  I use the FR Elf domain, PH buff spells, and an Oathbow.  The only other additions are Improved Rapid Shot (Dragon) and Persistent Spell (FR).


----------



## thegreatbuddha (Nov 9, 2002)

*Savanat Smackdown*

Here's a Savant (Psion) Smackdown.... 16th level, average damage, the way y'all like it.

Required feats: Inner Strength x4, Talented (Required for Body Fuel), Body Fuel

Required Ability Scores: Con16, but more is always good

Required powers: Psychokinesis, Disintegrate

Required items: Crystal Capacitator (19 PP), Crystal Capacitator(11 PP), Potion of Haste

Notes: Im assuming a CON of 30 (18 base, +2 dwarf, +4 level-up, +6 Amulet of Health), and all other stats at 10, except Charisma, which will be 9 (This totals 11.5 average per score).

The Tactic:  
With the partial action from a surprise round, drink the potion of haste.  With the extra partial action from haste, manifest Psychofeedback with PPs from the 19 PP Crystal Capacitator .

On round one, burn every point from every ability score except Constitution, dropping them all to 1.  This nets you a grand total of 227 PPs (115 base + 80 bonus + 10 Inner Strength + 22 Body Fuel).  This is a free action.  Psychofeeback allows you to burn off all these PPs for a Con boost on a 2:1 ratio, so you now have a Con mod of +123 (+10 from Con 30, +113 from psychofeedback).  Use your standard action to manifest Disintegrate from either crystal Capacitator.  Repeat with your Partial action from haste.  Disintegrate will have an average DC of 129.5 (1d20 + 6 power level +123 Con mod).

This can be stretched out over several rounds at a reduced DC each round.  With the addition of 2 more 11PP Crystal Capacitators, you can burn 1/2 of your PP total in 2 separate rounds, for a total of 4 disintegrates with average DCs of 126.5.  That will almost certainly drop a standard party of 4 PCs in a mere 2 rounds.  Death Ward completely stops it, but hey, thats life.

Hopefully that one hasn't been done before.


----------



## Orco42 (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: magical healing only*



			
				chrisland said:
			
		

> *The BoVD states that only magical healing heals the con loss, so if you loose 3pt of Con, you'll need up to three lesser restorations depending of how good your rolls is.
> So if you are playing a Cl 3, you need a wisdom of 22 to have that many lesser restoration. Better play a cleric level 4 with a wisdom of 14.
> Now think that you can have access to the contagion spell, it lists the diseases in the core book but a DM should extend it to the disease in the BoVD.
> So if you are CL5 and/or have access to the destruction domain (not really needed anyway) you may be able to auto inoculate yourself with the festering anger...no need to wait one year. Humm could be fun to play a cleric dedicated to a disease god a living carrier of disease.
> more evilness.... *




Good point about the magic healing. But in BoVD is says that a Contagion spell will not work for the diseases listed in that book.


----------



## Jeph (Nov 10, 2002)

ElderBasalist, you needd an item of +5 Wis (inherant), and one level of Shiba Protector. That way, hey look, +10 attack and damage per shot.  If you happen to mosey on over to the local monastery, you've got your Wis modifier to Attack, damage, _and_ AC, a little combo that can be very useful.


----------



## chrisland (Nov 10, 2002)

*damn*

I missed the contagion bit in the BoVD...got to work on my fast reading skills...


----------



## thegreatbuddha (Nov 11, 2002)

*Egoist Smackdown*

More rampant abuse of Psionics, again, sorry if it's been done already.

[32 point buy character]
Half Orc Psion (Egoist) 16
Str 30
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 8

Total strength is 30 (18 base +2 racial +4 level up +6 Belt of Strength)

Feats:
Power Attack
Inner Strength (3)
Talented
Body Fuel

Equipment
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Potion of Haste
Holy keen Lawful Scythe +5
Potion of Divine Power
Potion of Divine Favor (15th level caster; +5 bonus)

Total Number of Power Points available for use with Body Fuel & Inner Strength: 225

Surprise Round: Drink Potion of Haste.  Drink potion of Divine Favor

Round 1: Drink potion of Divine power & draw Holy Keen Lawful Scythe +5.

Round 2: Burn 225 Power Points (reducing all ability scores except strength to 1) for an additional +112 Strength Mod, for a total strength mod of +122.  This is a free action.  Full attack.

Total Attack Bonus
+148/+148/+143/+138/+133

Damage per attack: 2d4 +122 (Str) +5 (Weapon enhancement bonus) +5 (Divine Favor) +16 (Full Power Attack)=153 average damage.

Average damage per round not factoring critical hits in : 785.

Assuming one critical hit per round, damage jumps to 1244.

Absolute Maximum damage per round is 3120.

According to the 
Munchkin Damage Calculator, the mean damage per round against an AC of 40 is 1316.9375.  Against an AC of 100, this drops to 1289.2125 damage per round.  Both of these numbers should really be bumped up by about 2.5 points, since I had to use 1d8 damage for the scythe, instead of 2d4.


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## chrisland (Nov 12, 2002)

*divine power lvl 4*

I think that divine power is a lvl4 spell, therefore it cannot be made into a potion (brew potion only allows level 3 or less to be made into a potion). You'll need the master alchemist from FR to make a potion of a higher level. Therefore why not use a potion of righteous might , a potion of time stop, a potion of wish etc...


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## reapersaurus (Nov 12, 2002)

what's with this "burn all your ability scores except (X) down to 1"?!

You'd be a drooling idiot who couldn't even remember to breathe, much less attack.
I must be missing something in that set-up...  ?


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## Vuk (Nov 12, 2002)

Ze ninja Smackdown

16 level oa ninja

Maxed str 22 +6
Int 18 +4
Dex 18 +4

The twf tree
improved init
2 ninjatos(1d8 dam?)

Hide

1st turn (surpwise)

charge and sneak, since opp is flatfooted
1d8+6+8d6 dam = 4,5+6+28 dam=38,5 dam avg

2nd round regular
u win init cause of init bonus of +12 opp still flatfooted
u use fullround attack to sneak attack

4 main hand attacks
(1d8+6+8d6)*4 = 154 dam avg
2 off hand attacks
(1d8+3+8d6)*2 = 71 avg dam


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## thegreatbuddha (Nov 13, 2002)

chrisland:  Oops   I must have been thinking of wands.  in any event, Just substitute a ring of spell storing with divine power.  Losing divine power really hurts this smack, since it negates half of the attacks and most of the damage coming from Power Attack.

Reapersaurus:  As for burning all ability scores down to one, Body Fuel allows a psionic character to voluntary suffer 2 points of temporary ability damage to gain 1PP.   Nowhere in the rules does it say a character with an Int 1 can't attack.  Int 1 represents animal intelligence.  In 3e, animals can attack.  I see no evidence that would suggest the character would then be too stupid to attack something.  A few quick Potions of Lesser restoration or something similar and the character is back to normal, except for being completely drained of PPs.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 13, 2002)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> * I see no evidence that would suggest the character would then be too stupid to attack something. *



Hmm.....  
Looking in the PHB, I see that that NPC would have the DEX , Charisma, and Wisdom of a gelatinous cube.
The intelligence of a carrion crawler.

In the description of a carrion crawler, it says "This unintelligent creature continues to attack as long as it faces any moving opponents."
It would be distracted by a fly in its face, devoting all attacks to catching it.
A ball would be just as likely of opponent as a mage preparing a spell.

You don't have to go down to an attribute of 1 to make a Smack.
Unless you think a gelatinous cube is a difficult opponent to outwit, or get around.
Unfortunately for this unlikely PC, it doesn't have a body made of acidic ooze, so it will be ripped apart by arrows, or led off a cliff, or just have a boulder rolled towards him - he'd be too stupid to get out of the way.  

By the way, i thought that super-attribute burn for psionics sounded fishy, so i looked at the errata: 







> p. 24, Body Fuel: Add as last sentence:
> You can burn no more than 60 ability points in a day, regardless of any ability healing you may receive.



 Make sure to update those 'smacks', OK?


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## Jeremy (Nov 13, 2002)

<waggles a finger and chuckles at reaper>

Be nice!  Remember, every smack needs at least one edit.  Normally 5 or 6.


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## thegreatbuddha (Nov 14, 2002)

Reaper: Try doing the math before you attack my posts.  I didn't come close to hitting the 60/day limit.  And since burning PPs is a *free action* the psion would be threatening his opponent *on the psion's turn* when his abilities drop.  Since your proverbial fly can't move on my turn, it won't be a threat until after my turn is over, when I'd be too tired/stupid/unaware to notice it in any event.

One more thing: It's a smackdown.  it isn't meant to be feasible in the normal course of a game; it's just meant to be possible.  I'd personally kill any of my players if they did something like this IMC.

You're probably just mad cuz I did more damage than you


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## Elric (Nov 14, 2002)

Well, Buddha, I'm really impressed.  You don't need to use the infinite body fuel loop and you still have 1000 dmg a round mainly from one psionic power.  In fact, your main problem is just that you have no way to multiply your damage (an essential element of any smackdown).  Unfortunately, you can't use something like Power Critical to ensure a x4 dmg attack.  Perhaps Rhino Hide Armor and a partial charge with your hasted action.  I would also try to boost your Str in other ways to take full advantage of the large # of extra PP that you get.  An Arm of Nyr (DotF) is +2 unnamed Str and Dex bonus and you can wear 2 of them (only like 12k apiece, iirc).


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## reapersaurus (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: Egoist Smackdown*



			
				thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> *Total Number of Power Points available for use with Body Fuel & Inner Strength: 225
> 
> Round 2: Burn 225 Power Points (reducing all ability scores except strength to 1) for an additional +112 Strength Mod, for a total strength mod of +122.  This is a free action.  Full attack.*



Then I don't understand how this works.
(I don't like or know psionics)

It looks like you are burning attributes to get points.

Are you using points to also up the attributes?
If so, why would Wizards have given psionics the ability to get SO many points, which could be used in such a single-shot increase?
There's no cap, or limit to using the powers like there are every other place?

Sounds like Wizards really doesn't try to keep the rules balanced for psionics.


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## thegreatbuddha (Nov 15, 2002)

Psions are divided into 6 subclasses, eah relating to one of the six ability scores.  An Egoist derives his power from his strength score, treating it in the same way a wizard treats his Int score.  Instead of bonus spell slots, he gains bonus PPs (the psionic equivalent).

When i used body Fuel in my above example, I converted every ability point except strength (keeping 1 point in each other score) to gain PPs.  Those additional PPs are turned into a bonus to my strength modifier via Psychofeedback (which has no cap).  I do not gain any bonus PPs from the strength boost however, since my strength score does not increase.  The modifier increases.  My character sheet would look something like this:

Ability          Modifier

Str 30            +123

In addition, bonus PP are gained according to what the permanent ability score.  temporary modifiers do not count (Note that a Bull's Strength that lasts more than 24 hours is considered permanent as long as it is in effect, IIRC).  

Also, the round after the Egoist performed his 1300 smackdown, his ability scores would look like this

Ability     Modifier
Str  30        +10
Dex  1         -5
Con  1         -5
Int  1           -5
Wis  1          -5
Cha  1          -5

The psion would then regain lost ability points at the normal rate for temporary ability damage.  As you can see, he is at a nearly insurmountable disadvantage for roughly a week, barring magical/psionic healing.

Almost forgot.  For those of you familiar with the variant rules in If Thoughts Could Kill, I did not use the alternate Power Point chart in that smackdown.  There's enough extra PPs there to boost my strength score by 40 more points, which roughly translates into an additional 240 damage, making he total somewhere in the neighborhood of 1600 against an AC of 100


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## Elric (Nov 15, 2002)

Yeah, reaper.  They didn't balance the rules for Psionics.  But they did make a special effort to balance:

All the different bonus types (ie- magic items)
The CR system
FR Prestige Classes (esp Incantatrix!)
FR feats
Ways to get Damage multipliers
Ways to increase critical multipliers and ranges
Dragon Magazine Prestige Classes
OA Prestige Classes
Horns of Blasting, Vorpal Weapons, Beads of Karma
Haste, Harm, Divine Power, Duplicate/Fission, Shapechange, and other overpowered spells
Multiple Arms and other ways to get way too many attacks (Multishot, Frenzy, Ki Frenzy)
Shuriken, Telekinesis, and silly things of this nature
Magic of Faerun (esp Spelldancer!)
Clerics (and their domains)
Class book prestige classes and feats


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## thegreatbuddha (Nov 15, 2002)

Psionics (as always) were added in as an afterthoguht.   The only way psionics will ever be balanced is if they decide to make 4e and make psionics a part of the core rules.


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## Xeriar (Nov 15, 2002)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> *
> Ability     Modifier
> Dex  1         -5
> Con  1         -5
> ...




He will also have 16 HP.  Not that not sacrificing your con score changes much, but he spends the first combat round or two doing non-combat actions.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 16, 2002)

Elric - LOL -good one  

Ahh..   you hadn't mentioned that the "Smackdown" lasts for all of one round.
That is a different story, in my eyes.
And if it has 16 HP, than an AoO would wipe it out.


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## Victim (Nov 16, 2002)

Psions essentially have the spells/day of a wizard, and the spells known of a sorcerer, but, built in a certain way, they an unmatched "In case of Emergency . . ." factor.

I don't see how psionics compares to FR based metamagic or DC smacks, or the OA Singh Rager or Iajitso focus attacks.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 16, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *I don't see how psionics compares to FR based metamagic or DC smacks, or the OA Singh Rager or Iajitso focus attacks. *



Well...   NOTHING compares to the OA Singh Rager for Smack-a-liciousness....  

Check out my soon-to-be-posted Singh Rager Shield Smack in the munchkin adventure in the In-Character Forum


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## thegreatbuddha (Nov 16, 2002)

Here's a 10th level smackdown.... Just because I can

Human Fighter2/Assassin1/Rogue7

S 26 (18 base +1 level up +3 Bull's Strength +4 Righteous Might)
Dex 11
Ch 18

Skills: Use Magic Device 10 ranks +18 (+10 ranks +4 Cha +4 synergy), Spellcraft 5 ranks, Dechipher Script 5 ranks

Feats: Improved Initiative, Lightning Initiative(QF), Combat Reflexes, Expert Tactician, Power Attack, Reckless Attack(QF), Weapon Focus (Greataxe),

Magic Items: (Potions) Bull's Strength, Haste, Divine Favor (Brewed at 12th level)
(Divine Scrolls) Divine power (cast at 10th level), Righteous Might
(Sorceror Scrolls) Improved Invisibility, Greater Magic Weapon (cast at 9th level)

Drink all potions & cast all scrolls on self, except Scroll of GMW; that goes on your Greataxe.

NOTE:  This smackdown assumes that time is not of the essence, and is best used from an ambush position.

Surprise Round: Sneak Attack with bonus partial action from Expert tactician.  Sneak attack with surprise round partial action.  Sneak Attack with bonus partial action from Haste.  3 attacks +15/+15/+15

Round 1: Your Initiative mod is +8 and you're still invisible, so your foe is almost guaranteed to still be denied his Dex bonus.  Time for more Sneak Attacks.  Pull out 2 with the full attack option, and another one each from Expert tactician and Haste, for a total of 4.  4 attacks: +15/+15/+15/+10

You have some pretty hefty damage bonuses going on here
+12 (strength *1.5)
+10 (Power Attack)
+10 (Reckless Attack)
+4 luck bonus (Divine Favor)
+3 Enhancement bonus (Greater Magic Weapon)

So with each attack, you're dealing 2d8+5d6+39.  That's an average of 65.5 points of damage per hit, not counting crits.

In the surprise round, you deal 196.5 points of damage.  In round 1 you deal 262 points of damage, which qualifies this as a smackdown.  Total damage in 1 round + surprise round: 458.5, not counting criticals.

That's a viable 10th level character made with a 32 point buy method with less than 5k in magic items and equipment (total is 4650 IIRC).  So, anybody want to let me play in their campaign?

NOTE: If you don't like the evil alignment, feel free to substitute any other PrC that grants Sneak Attack +1d6 at 1st level for the level in Assassin.


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## Black Arrow (Nov 30, 2002)

Holy Snake Monk Smackdown

"Fiona": 6th level monk/8th level Shintao monk Naga(constrictor) (Rokugan PC) (ECL 16)

STR 34 (20(base) +6(belt) +3(lvl stat increase) +5(manual of gainful exercise))
       42 (after activating Righteous Might and Rage)

SIZE = Large (Huge w/Righteous Might)
Weight = 1200 lbs (9600 lbs w/Righteous Might)

COST (Equipment)

  2000	Ring of Jumping
 12000	Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone with Righterous Might(5th)
   750	Potion of Rage(3rd MoW spell)
 54000	Belt of Giant Strength +6(stacked w/Monk's Belt)
  8500	Bands of the Tiger's Leap(stacked w/Striding & Springing)
    50+	Potion of True Strike(1st)
137500	Manual of Gainful Exercize +5
 15000	Gloves of Fearsome Grip
  5310	Bracers of Striking(sure striking(MoF))
 13000	Ring of Shocking Blows
  6000	Amulet of Mighty Fists +1
    20	SureGrip(T&B)

254130+ TOTAL (5870- gp leftover)

Speed: 120 feet (80 feet combined with Striding)
Jump +81: +17(ranks) +12(Str bonus) +30(ring) +10(striding) +10(foot & fist mastery) +2(tumble synergy)

Running jump: 86' (avg)
movement 120: 344'
hasted(x1.5): 516'long/129'high

FEATS:

Improved Unarmed Strike (1st Monk)
Power Attack (1st)
Flying Kick (Stunning Fist swap @ 1st)
Roundabout Kick (Deflect Arrows swap @ 2nd)
Sunder (3rd)
Mantis Leap (6th)
Ki Shout (Improved Trip swap @ 6th)
Fists of Iron (1st Shintao Monk)
Power Lunge (9th)
Eagle Claw (3rd Shintao Monk)*
Earth's Embrace (5th Shintao Monk)#
Hammer Fist (12th)
Deflect Arrows (7th Shintao Monk)**

*  Satisfies prerequisites for Empty Hand Mastery
** Satisfies prerequisites for Foot & Fist Mastery
#  Improved Grab replaces Improved Grapple prerequisite
Feats were taken from PH, OA, and Dragon #279

BASE Unarmed BAB: +10/+7/+4/+1
Grapple score: BAB +31 (+16(Str) +8(Huge) +5(Fearsome Grip) +2(Suregrip))

Tactics:

Ring of shocking grasp is assumed to be "on," and Suregrip has been applied to hands.  If Fiona is able to prepare (after spotting foes from a long distance) she will activate haste, followed by Righteous Might, Rage, and True Strike.  Carries a bunch of true strike potions which she may use in future rounds...

Preparation Time = surprise round + round 1.  

On round 2, she performs a partial charge combined with a leap at least 10' above the opponent's height and comes crashing down with a smite...  The opponent will feel like a 5 tons of concrete came crushing on their head (she weighs 9600 lbs).

BAB +44: +10(base) +2(charge) +1(higher ground) +1(amulet) +4(smite) +20(true strike) +16(Str) -10(Power attack)

Damage: (4d8(18 avg) +48(3x Str bonus) +8(smite) +1(amulet) +10(Power Attack)) *3(Flying kick/Tiger's leap) +1d8+3(Shocking Grasp) +20d6("falling object") +d4(Iron Fists) = 335 damage (avg)

A critical hit here would grant an additional unarmed attack.  In any case, Fiona then gets a free grapple check(+41), which deals constriction damage (d6+24 = 27 dmg(avg)).

For her full round action, she can follow up with 4 grapple attacks +41/+38/+35/+32 which each do 
((4d8 + 24(x1.5 Str/Hammer fist) +1(amulet)) + (1d6 + 24(constriction)) = 70.5 X 4 = 282 dmg.

Total damage in the round = 644...  with a monk!

Optionally, she could pin the opponent with the 4th attack (constriction dmg still applies on a successful grapple check for a pin), and if the opponent failed to break free on his turn would suffer 601(prior round) + 86 damage(Earth's Embrace) = 687 damage(total).  This option has the advantage of effectively immobilizing most victims unless they can beat her d20 +41 grapple check.

On subsequent rounds, she is able to run/partial charge(+jump) 600' vs. one fleeing opponent every round, or partial charge/full attack 120' vs. closer opponents.  (Reminds me of that snake in Q-BERT  ).

(Other options would be to shuffle feats, and replace Deflect Arrows with the Large and in Charge feat.  Get Combat Reflexes ASAP (or swap with Power Lunge).  She has 15' reach and could AoO anyone coming close to her, plus keep them away from her.  Or she might pursue Dodge and Karmic Strike.

Note: If Fiona was polymorphed into a 'standard' constrictor naga, her base size would be huge, base Str 20, so there would be less need for the ioun stone (she'd lose the +4 Str enlargement bonus).  If Drunken Master PrC provides a base speed that [ordinary] monk levels build on, swapping one level of Shintao Monk with one level Drunken Master could give her an effective base speed of 200.)


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## reapersaurus (Dec 1, 2002)

what do you mean "swap feats"?
You substituted Flying Kick for Stunning Fist, etc?

Are those House Rules?


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## Elric (Dec 1, 2002)

No, that's OA rules.  A Monk can swap Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows and Imprvoed Trip for a list of other feats


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## reapersaurus (Dec 1, 2002)

thanks, Elric.
give's 'em better flexability and power, I guess.

Other than the Rokugan PC Naga stuff, I like the smack.
I've been wondering if there's any way to get Rhino Hide armor in with the Sandals of Tiger's Leap and Flying Kick... ?


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## Synicism (Dec 1, 2002)

*Rogue Scroll Smack*

I had submitted this character for use in the Chicago Gameday's 10th level Free-for-All Brawl. Unfortunatelly, I got sick that weekend and couldn't make it.

The idea was to make a 10th level character and duke it out with the other PC's. We had 49000 GP to spend. Last man standing won.

Went with a halfling Rogue and put an 18 into Charisma. The rest of the stats were mostly meaningless. Took Improved Initiative, Quick Draw and Skill Focus: Use Magic Device. Main skill was Use Magic Device, Decipher Script for Synergy bonuses, etc. For my 10th level Rogue ability, selected Skill Mastery and put one of my picks in Use Magic Device, allowing me to take a 10 in the skill, even though UMD normally doesn't allow it. Spent some of my money on a Heward's Handy Haversack (Free Action to pull an item from the Haversack according to the FAQ) and a few random items like Boots of Speed. Everything else went into scrolls.

My strategy was to rely on UMD (Skill Mastery and taking a 10 allowed me to automatically successfully cast 9th level scrolls with the DC 34 check) and the Heward's Haversack to chain together spells like Time Stop, and Horrid Wilting and pretty much wipe out everyone before anyone else had a chance to go. I had enough money to dish out over 100d8 damage to everyone in the encounter, so long as no one character was more than 60' from the rest, and the Time Stop spells ensured that I would never have to worry about another player getting a turn and killing me because I could just chain them together. And if all else failed, I had a Shapechange scroll so I could turn into the Tarrasque with his +35 natural AC and just eat people. Or maybe a Remhorraz so I could dish out 10d10 damage to people with Improved Grab.

OK, so I admit that this was less of a tactic than an exercise in total, complete munchkinism. But that sounded like the point of a free-for-all slugfest anyway. <g>

So, anyone who went to the Chicago gameday earlier this month remember what character won?


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## ZeroFlowne (Dec 2, 2002)

What, no comments on mine? Boo, hiss. 

(It's at the end of page 14. ZF's Four way smack)


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## Black Arrow (Dec 2, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *thanks, Elric.
> give's 'em better flexability and power, I guess.
> 
> Other than the Rokugan PC Naga stuff, I like the smack.
> I've been wondering if there's any way to get Rhino Hide armor in with the Sandals of Tiger's Leap and Flying Kick... ? *




Hi Reaper...  Been having a tough time responding.  The servers haven't been cooperating lately.  I made some minor edits on the smackdown, BTW (edited charge dmg miscalculation and added constriction dmg to pin based on understanding of grapple rules).

Anyway... don't like Rokugani naga?  Female naga have an ability to polymorph self their lower torso into a "human form" (e.g. legs).  Main difference here would be that she'd lose constriction and her grappling checks would be at -4 for a one size category drop.  If one assumed the "human" weight was 150 lbs, she'd be back to 1200 lbs with Righteous Might, meaning that a 40' high jump-charge could still grant her +20d6 "falling object" damage.

Her unarmed attacks would also only do 4d6 damage instead of 4d8 (d12 -> 2d8 (large/Righteous Might) -> 4d6 (empty hand mastery)).  Total damage in round 1 without constriction and lowered unarmed attack damage would be 479 damage, 518 if she pinned and maintained earth's embrace.  Still packs a punch.

If you used a standard PHB race (half-orc), you could retain the base strength and duplicate the above damage, but would need to swap out Deflect Arrows with the Improved Grappling feat; alternatively, you could opt for human and get an extra feat and have a friendly spellcaster provide a triple-empowered Bull's Strength to replace/surpass the enhancement bonus from the Belt of Giant Strength... (this would also save you some cash that you could use to upgrade the Amulet of Mighty Fists and Bracers of Striking... probably the best way to do even more damage).  You would also start at level 16, granting 2 more feats (9th Shintao monk, level 15 chr; could take Choke Hold & Death Blow), an ability point increase(Str), +2 Unarmed BAB... starting to sound like a half decent idea.  

In either case, your maximum move/jump will be diminished by 1/6 (100 base move with striding), starting with a base move 30 race.

I'm not sure how you would incorporate Rhino hide in this smack and retain 4 unarmed grapple attacks (it would drop to two...).  On the otherhand, not many creatures can survive the initial charge, so it's worth considering.


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## Moe Ronalds (Dec 27, 2002)

are there any special rules or anything for submitting here or can you just post the stats for an extremely twinked character whenever you want?

(also, what's with putting the word pronounced 'uv' in red? Is it required? I couldn't find the original smackdown that you mentioned in the first post)


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## Jeremy (Dec 27, 2002)

I'm not sure why you are seeing UV in red, most likely in the URL you entered it's got +highlight+UV.  You can take it out.  

As for the req's, yeah, any time you have a creative way to do 200 points of damge or more in a single round with a legal combination of feats, special abilities, and/or magical items from published (accepted) sources, feel free to post it!    Just make sure you have some panache and you sum it up or present it in an interesting way.  

Have fun!


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## Shains (Jan 5, 2003)

*Epic?*

Is there an Epic smackdown thread anywhere?

I know of this one and the sultans of a lesser smack threads.


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## DM_Matt (Jan 5, 2003)

*Re: Epic?*



			
				Shains said:
			
		

> *Is there an Epic smackdown thread anywhere?
> 
> I know of this one and the sultans of a lesser smack threads. *




The general concensus is that since all epic characters are extremely powerful and there are no good natural stopping points that an epic smack thread would be too easy and not too rewarding.


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## Shains (Jan 6, 2003)

*OIC*

Ok, I was just wondering if other characters of around 27th-30th level could do over 66k a round. I don't remember what it was exactly, but I was impressed.


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## Archer (Jan 12, 2003)

That naga smack is a little hard to follow for me. I don't follow the str x3 and damage x3 on the first attack. I see str x2 for power lunge or mantis leap and damage x2 for flying kick. Potions of true strike aren't a valid item. Constriction lets you deal 1.5x str damage instead of just normal strength damage on a grapple check, not do double damage on grapple attacks. What is the justification for falling damage? The smack works on evil medium sized creatures without reach weapons with no allies, a bit of a stretch even for a smack. The bracers of sure striking aren't adding anything to the smack and neither is the ring of jumping or the striding and springing. You are using bands and bracers?.  I see the initial attack damage as 112 avg. and each follow up as 4d8 + 24. You forget the -2 to hit for size and the amulet and gloves don't stack. Mantis Leap and Power Lunge are redundant as are flying kick feat and flying kick from tiger's leap sandals but naga don't have feet. Creatures without legs seem like they wouldn't be able to use the jump skill at all, much like creatures without hands can't pick locks.

A non smack character could kill the naga before she ran through the 4-action warm up of activating haste, righteous might, shocking grasp and rage.

I have to agree that Rokugani Constrictor and other AEG naga are light on the ECL. The OA Constrictor has an ECL of 12 or so and it has a move of 20 instead of 40.


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## Victim (Jan 13, 2003)

What happens when a mid level cleric is confronted with foes beyond his ability?  With lots of foreknowledge and preparation - perhaps extensive use of Divination and Commune could help in this area - and this Smackdown, he and his companions have a fighting chance.

Character: Cleric 9.  22 Wisdom will be assumed, and decent Dex helps.  Improved Initiative, Spell Casting Prodigy, Spell focus Evocation, and Spell Penetration type feats will help.  The Sun domain is required.

Key items: 

somc form of Haste, whether it be potion, boots, or an ally.

Periapt of Wisdom, at least +2.  We want a level 6 bonus spell.

Incense of Meditation

Bead of Karma, from the necklace of prayer beads

Candle of Invocation.
----------------------------------------
Assuming that you can set up the timing well enough to light the candle near the end of the Incense of Meditation ritual, and have the event for which you need these badass spells occur with the 2 hour duration of the candle, we can proceed.  We also want the him to buff within 10 minutes of the battle, so the Bead of Karma is active too.  Get a good watch, and use lots of Divinations, I guess.

The 9th level cleric will cast as an 11th level cleric because of the Candle.  So he has the following spell chart, assuming the 22 wis mentioned above.

6; 7+1; 6+1, 5+1; 4+1; 3+1; 2+1  

Because of the Incense of Meditation, all those spells are Maximized.  There are a number of fun spells that work with this setup, but I'll restrict myself to Blade Barriers, Fire Seeds, Flamestrikes, GMW, and Searing Light.  I think Bear's Heart would work well too.  Other buffs and such are reccomended.

Now we activate the Bead of Karma.  Our cleric's caster level is 15.  Not only can he pass out +5 weapons to his friends, he also does lots of damage with spells.

Surprise Round:  Haste, Flamestrike (90 points)
Round 1:  Toss Fire Seeds (actually someone else, like the rogue should be using the Fire Seeds, but oh well) for 120 points and follow up with another Flamestrike for another 90.  That's 210 points in a round.
R2:  Either switch to Searing Light if the enemy is still up after the 300 points dealt out, or close to melee with your +5 mace.  Divine Favor at +5 to attack and damage, along with other possible buffs, should help out here.

All that at level 9 with core rules only.  Too bad it relies heavily on 1 shot items.  

The book of Hallowed Might greatly improves this character.  Trade out some feats (a human cleric 9 will have 5, so there's enough to II, Spell focus and penetration) to get Swear an Oath and Oath of Magic so you can quicken your spells for free too.  Take Blazing Light with your level 6 slots.  Also, Light domain let's you take a Blazing Light in a level 5 domain slot.

With an sworn oath active and the above set up, we have:

S:  Haste, toss Fire seeds, and then Blazing Light.  240 total
R1:  2 Blazing Light, 1 Flamestrike:  330, 570 total
R2:  2 Flamestrike, 1 Searing Light:  220, 790 total


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## Jeremy (Jan 13, 2003)

I like it!  A lot!

It's a logistics nightmare and it has some questionable interpretations of how the items work together, but I still like it a lot!


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## Victim (Jan 14, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *I like it!  A lot!
> 
> It's a logistics nightmare and it has some questionable interpretations of how the items work together, but I still like it a lot! *




Yes, the main problem would be the interaction between the incense and the Candle.  However, even if you can't Maximize your level 6 spells that way, you can do lots of damage with Max Flamestrikes and such.  Unfortunately, then you can't get a smackdown without using BoHM.  

Alternatively, you can just bump the cleric level up to 11.  Then he doesn't really need the candle.

Also, I forgot one of the nifty bits.  Once you use up your extra spells from the candle, and if you don't need the extra caster levels anymore, you can use it to cast Gate.  Solars can do pretty good damage too - they're just about a cleric archer smackdown by themselves.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Jan 20, 2003)

Are we allowed to use ECL races? If so, here is my simple contribution:

*YOUR PETTY MAGICKS WON'T HARM ME!*

Mercane (ECL +7), Any Combination of Rogue, Fighter, Monk, or Barbarian L5, Forsaker L4

Feats:
Mercane: Iron Will
L9 Great Fortitude
L12 Lightning Reflexes

SR:
Mercane 25
Forsaker 14
Total: 

*39 SR at level 16*


This character also gets Outsider HD for his monster levels, plus his stats are increased by +4 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con, +10 Int, +6 Wis, +4 Chr. Load up on healing salves and adamantine equipment, and there you go.

Though this character can work as a PC, it works best for a DM, since few parties can stand having a forsaker in their midst. 

[Note: If your DM let's you change both Mercane feats, then you can get to Forsaker at L10, for a grand total of SR 42 at L16.]
.
.
.
.
[EDIT: Pixie Rogue/Forsakers armed with bows are also neat. *grin*]


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## ConcreteBuddha (Jan 21, 2003)

I noticed a couple people here had used the Singh Rager effectively. Here is my take on it, using an ECL race:

* "Don't Mess With This Bug!" *

*OVERVIEW*
Multiweapon fighter without having to rely on Polymorph Other or any other dispel-able buffs.

*RACE AND CLASSES*
Non-Psionic Thri-kreen (ECL 3), Fighter 7, Singh Rager 4, Fist of Hextor 2

*ABILITY SCORES*
Str 44	(18, +2 race, +6 en, +4 lion's fury, +2 levels,+ 8 four arms of nyr, +4 strength boost)
Cha 14	(14 DMG chart brings it to an 8, +2 from cloak, +4 animated shield of command)

*SKILLS*
Intimidate 4
Spot 4
Know (religion) 4

*FEATS*
mb Exotic Gythka
m1 Power Attack
c3 Cleave
c6 Iron Will
c9 Ki Shout
c12 Imp. MWF 
c15 Greater MWF

3f1 MWF
4f2 MD
6f4 WF
8f6 WS

*EQUIPMENT*		(260000)
Rhino Hide, Thri-kreen sized	10330
Belt of Giant Str +6		36000
of Chr +2			4000
4 Arms of Nyr			51200
Animated shield +1 of command	25170
2 Gythka +4 			129320
				left	3980

*ATTACKS ON A CHARGE*
	Primary: +37/+32/+27
	Secondary: +37/+37/+37/+32/+32/+32/+27/+27/+27

BAB +15
Charge +2
Enhancement +4
WF +1
Str +17
MWF -2

*DAMAGE*
_Primary:_ 
2d6 +17 +2 +4	
(2d6 + 23)*2	
60 points average

_Secondary:_
2d6 +8 +2 +4	
(2d6 + 14)*2	
42 points average 

*Notes:*
1) I'm guessing that more than four of the twelve attacks are going to hit, to bring this one well into smackdown range.
2) This character can charge anything within 30 ft, make a full MWF attack and if all twelve attacks hit, he'd do 558 damage on average. That is completely ignoring criticals and power attack.
3) I know it would be better with energy weapons and GMW, however, this is good enough.
4) I had fun making this!


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## Numion (Jan 21, 2003)

*Re: Re: Epic?*



			
				DM_Matt said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The general concensus is that since all epic characters are extremely powerful and there are no good natural stopping points that an epic smack thread would be too easy and not too rewarding. *




Sounds like defeatism, really. Epic smacks can still impress. The possibilities are vast, and surely worth looking into. 

I wouldn't say that the 36th level Red Wizard Circle Magic DC Smack that was posted up on general was "too easy". Or if you think it was too easy, best it!


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## Victim (Jan 21, 2003)

Ah, a thri-keen smack.  My brother and I often joked about a 2e thri-keen grandmaster using 4 weapons with the ambidexterity prof in C&T that could allow one to get a full number of attacks with secondary hands.


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## Viktyr Gehrig (Jan 21, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Ah, a thri-keen smack.  My brother and I often joked about a 2e thri-keen grandmaster using 4 weapons with the ambidexterity prof in C&T that could allow one to get a full number of attacks with secondary hands. *




I always took Multiple Weapon Specialization and then specialized in the bite, mastered the claws.

I don't remember there being a proficiency in Combat and Tactics that allowed you to get full attacks with your off-hand weapon. Ambidexterity just reduced your off-hand weapon penalties.


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## Victim (Jan 21, 2003)

Ambidexterity said that you fight as with 2 primary hands.  The primary hand gets full attacks.  Ergo, full attacks with both hands.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Jan 21, 2003)

If you like Thri-kreen, here's another one I came up with while working on the previous one. (I'm assuming variations of this have been done before.)


*"Jump Over the Moon? No Problem!"*

*OVERVIEW*
Lots of Mental Leap and Speed of Thought, plus jumping stuff.

*RACE AND CLASS*
Non-Psionic Thrikreen (+3) Psychic Warrior L13

*ABILITY SCORES*
Str 36	(18, 2 racial, 6 enhancement, assume +5 unnamed from Animal Affinity, +5 inherent) 
Wis 13

*POWERS*
L0 Burst, manifest for free
L1 Skate, 1 PP
L2 Animal Affinity, 3 PP

*EQUIPMENT* (260000)
Ring of Jumping, 2000
Boots of SS, 6000
Belt of Str +6, 36000
Thri-kreen padded armor (+1) of quickness (PsiHB), 4160
Book of Str +5, 137500

*FEATS*
m1 Dash (Song and Silence)
c3 Inner Strength
c6 SoT		
c9 ML		
c12 ML		
c15 ML		

p1 SoT		
p2 ML		
p5 SoT		
p8 ML		
p11 ML		

*SKILLS*
Tumble 5
Jump 16

*JUMP BONUS* 
ranks 16
Str 13
Comp 10
Unnamed 30
racial 30
synergy 2

total: +101

*SPEED:*
base 40
Speed of Thought*3, +30
Dash +5
Armor of quickness +5
Skate +30 enhancement (on a decline)
Burst +10
(40+30+5+5+30+10)*2 [Boots of SS] = 240 Speed

Let's assume I roll a 20 for my jump skill check. My running jump horizontal distance is:

[5ft. (minimum) + 111 ft.]*[240/30]*7

or 

*6496 ft.*



_Notes:_
1) Took Inner Strength to get 9 PPs for the third SoT.
2) I'm under the impression that Boots of SS and Expeditious Retreat do not stack, or else I'd give this character a wand and lots of Use Psionic Device.
3) I'm still having fun. *grin*


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## Archer (Jan 21, 2003)

The sage capped Boots of SS at 100' move based on 50' being the highest non-magical speed for M sized creatures. In any case, boots only multiply base move and do not stack with any magical or SU speed enhancement.

Here's a 5th level wizard who can cast fly. Now his horizontal jump distance is 90 (fly) * 2 (double move) * 50 (minutes) * 10 (round) or 90,000 ft!


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## ConcreteBuddha (Jan 21, 2003)

Archer said:
			
		

> *The sage capped Boots of SS at 100' move based on 50' being the highest non-magical speed for M sized creatures. In any case, boots only multiply base move and do not stack with any magical or SU speed enhancement. *




Is that in the FAQ?

(If that is the case, then I would buy some shards of jump +10, and a wand of expeditious retreat, then max out UPD. Different approach, same result.)

*



			Here's a 5th level wizard who can cast fly. Now his horizontal jump distance is 90 (fly) * 2 (double move) * 50 (minutes) * 10 (round) or 90,000 ft!
		
Click to expand...


*
Two things:

1) Flying horizontally is not the same as jumping horizontally, silly human.

2) Your character lacks _*style!*_


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## Vander (Jan 22, 2003)

*hafling?*

How about a 4th level Rogue, Hafling, with a Half-Fiend Template?Ability scores are S 18, D 24, C 19, I 21, W 12, Ch 16.  Hp 36. Feats are Combat Reflexes and Weapon Finesse- Dagger. Any cool smackdown ideas? Ideas for Feats, etc. as he advances?


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## Viktyr Gehrig (Jan 22, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Ambidexterity said that you fight as with 2 primary hands.  The primary hand gets full attacks.  Ergo, full attacks with both hands. *




Uhm... *No.* 

That's not how the rules-as-written work, and there's an entire feat chain that requires Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting that, if this were the way the rule worked, would not make sense.

You also do not get two attacks on an attack action-- you need to make a full attack action with your off-hand, regardless of the Ambidexterity feat.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Jan 22, 2003)

Korimyr the Rat----


Silly Korimyr, he was talking about *2e...*


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## reapersaurus (Jan 22, 2003)

ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *I noticed a couple people here had used the Singh Rager effectively. Here is my take on it, using an ECL race:
> 
> "Don't Mess With This Bug!"  *



Good job.
I don't know what the Exotic weapon is, but it looks fun.

Your build is pretty close to the idea for my shield-Smacking Singh Rager that deals >2000 damage (with FCtF and ECL race : Knuk, a 4-armed cat-man)


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## Jeremy (Jan 22, 2003)

ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *
> 4) I had fun making this!  *




Most important part!  Good job.


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Jan 25, 2003)

Originally posted by Kraedin:



> This requires a 10th level psion, of at least Medium size, with the power metamorphosis.
> 
> The 5th level psion power metamorphosis is similar to polymorph self, except that it allows the *manifester* to assume the form of objects, as well as creatures. Assuming a Medium-sized caster, the largest object that can be assumed is Large-size. According to the PHB glossary, a Large (creature) is 8-16 foot in size. Assuming that the same goes for objects, we'll try for a 16' cube of gold, for 4096 cubic feet. That gives a weight of 4,915,200 lbs, for a damage of 24,576d6 when dropped from a height of 10 feet. You can fit 9 Medium-sized creatures underneath that block, for a grand total of 221,184d6 damage, or a mean of 774,144, or 86,016 per person.




I assume you have to manifest Fly first 
http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=113;t=009434

His original smackdown outdid DM Vengeance's Smackdown, but it's for a 20th-level character.



> You can shapechange into any object less than 200' in any dimension. For this, we'll assume the form of a 200' cube of solid gold. Gold weighs about 1,200 pounds per cubic foot, so a 200' cube of gold weighs about 9,600,000,000 pounds.
> 
> For every 200 pounds an object weighs, it deals 1d6 damage for falling 10 feet. (DMG, page 89.) Our cube of gold, therefore, does 48,000,000d6 damage. On average, that's 168,000,000 damage. Now, you can fit 1,600 Medium-size creatures in a 200' square. Add up all the damage you deal to all of them, and you get 268,800,000,000 damage




I haven't read all the smackdowns here, so I'm not sure if I just copied someone's smakcdown, or if this is along the same lines as Time Stop/Blade Barrier.


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## Impeesa (Jan 27, 2003)

I call this one "Terrible abuse of the epic spell system that should never see the light of day". Two disclaimers:

1) This is level 21, so it's epic and 5 levels above the norm. However, it's still impressive, and far more so than most at that level. Plus, it's a lot more consistent - you're fine with no items in antimagic, at all times. 

2) This centers around the terrible loophole that epic spells use the shortest duration in the event of multiple seeds, and DC 0 spells are essentially free to research. While no sane DM would even think about allowing any of what I'm about to propose, I haven't heard any errata yet... so let's see how far we can push it. 

First: his epic spells-

17 foresee
27 fortify (base sr)
-220 casting time
+176 for base SR of 69
____________________
DC: 0


17 foresee
17 fortify (enhancement)
-220 casting time
+186 for +94 enhancement bonus (all stats, saves, SR, natural armor)
____________________
DC: 0


17 foresee
23 fortify (other)
-220 casting time
+180 for +31 [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] bonus (all stats, saves, SR, armor)
____________________
DC: 0


17 foresee
17 fortify (energy resistance)
-220 casting time
+186 for energy resistance 94 to each type
____________________
DC: 0


14 armor
17 foresee
-220 casting time
+188 for +98 armor bonus
____________________
DC: 0


17 foresee
17 fortify (DR)
-220 casting time
+186 for DR 148/+14
_____________________
DC: 0

What's funny is that the moment he hits level 21, he retires to his study for 10 minutes, makes some mad scribblings... and spends 20 years casting it all. 

So.. monk 1/clr 20 (monk is for style - see end of post)

Stats: Let's say he's pretty average - base 10 everything, except a nice fat wisdom. We'll leave out items for the moment.

STR 10 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] = 259 [+124]
DEX 10 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] = 259 [+124]
CON 10 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] = 259 [+124]
INT 10 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] = 259 [+124]
WIS 18 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] +5 level = 272 [+131]
CHR 10 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] = 259 [+124]

HP: 21d8 + 2604 (2698 average)
AC: 10 +124 dex +124 wis +94 natural +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] +98 armor = 605
Saves: 
fort: +13 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] +124 ability = +386
ref: +8 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] +124 ability = +381
will: +13 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] +131 ability = +393
DR: 148/+14
SR: 69 +94 enhancement +(31*5) [divine/luck/sacred/insight/morale] = 318
Energy resistance 94, all types

So where's the smackdown itself? Um... so he's having lunch with his god, right? And he's like "so why didn't you answer that last miracle there, huh?" and his god goes "well, you're a punk, you didn't need it." So the cleric reaches across the table and smacks him a few times. Attacks are at +138 bare naked, he shouldn't miss... has no problem with the DR, being unarmed, so he should hit all three times doing an average of 382. While this is 5 levels above the norm with rather anticlimactic damage, I'd like to see all you mounted charging leaping freaks do 382 a round without spilling your drink. 

--Impeesa--


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## Archer (Jan 27, 2003)

That whole series has already been debunked over at wizards. Permanent stat increases are limited to a +5 inherent bonus and recommended minimum DC for epic spells are 10. Permanent spells have a x5 DC multiplier applied before any negative modifiers. Fortify spells with instantaneous duration are useless because the benefit expires instantaneously.

The last bunch of smacks haven't made much of an attempt to actually follow written rules. There aren't loopholes, only errors on the part of people making the smacks. Anyone can make up a "house" rule that allows them to do an infinite amount of damage by breaking one of the normal limits.


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## Impeesa (Jan 27, 2003)

Archer said:
			
		

> *That whole series has already been debunked over at wizards. *




That's what I thought, but all I could turn up with a quick search was some uninformed rambling and complaining.



			
				Archer said:
			
		

> *Permanent stat increases are limited to a +5 inherent bonus...*




I quote: "If you apply a factor to make the duration permanent..." I am neither adding any sort of duration-affecting factor nor making it permanent. 



			
				Archer said:
			
		

> *...and recommended minimum DC for epic spells are 10. *




Makes sense, hopefully that makes it into the official FAQ or errata. AFAIK, it isn't at the moment. 



			
				Archer said:
			
		

> *Permanent spells have a x5 DC multiplier applied before any negative modifiers.*




Yeah, good thing this doesn't involve the 'permanent' factor. Otherwise it'd get expensive. 



			
				Archer said:
			
		

> *Fortify spells with instantaneous duration are useless because the benefit expires instantaneously.*




Fireball's instantaneous... are you trying to tell me your poor victims become instantly unburned?  Wow... that kind of makes Harm, Heal, and PW: Kill kind of useless....

--Impeesa--


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## Archer (Jan 27, 2003)

Instantaneous spells have no ongoing effect. Fireball doesn't keep on burning, heal doesn't keep on healing and fortify doesn't continue its fortify effect. Wall of Stone etc create a non magical object and have no further effect.


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## Impeesa (Jan 27, 2003)

Archer said:
			
		

> *Instantaneous spells have no ongoing effect. Fireball doesn't keep on burning, heal doesn't keep on healing and fortify doesn't continue its fortify effect. Wall of Stone etc create a non magical object and have no further effect. *




And you find it perfectly fine to say that magic can conjure up a giant wall of iron or a perfectly formed ball of flame which does not remain magical in nature after its creation, but cannot, say, increase someone's muscle mass or brain power in a similarly physical fashion? Hell, even good diet and excercise can do that...  

Edit: thought I should point out that I'm mostly arguing for the sake of debate, I'll be the first one to say that something here needs errata and this should never see the light of day in a real game. 

--Impeesa--


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Jan 27, 2003)

Archer, which smacks had errors in them?


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## Archer (Jan 27, 2003)

The naga one, the jumping one, any that have potions with personal targets, the epic spell one and the one that uses the oaths from Hallowed Might only works in very specific situations because the oaths are very powerful and need DM adjudication as written right in their description but I liked the oath one anyway.

I'm not saying that fortify can't increase an attribute but only for a limited time, 20 hrs at the most. When checking to see if an enhancement bonus is in effect you ask if there is any time remaining in the spell duration. If the answer is no, then there is no bonus. When you finish an instantaneous spell, is there any time remaining in the duration?


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## Victim (Jan 27, 2003)

Well, since I made the cleric one, I guess I should defend it.

1)  The smackdown works with Core Rules only - either at 9th or 11th level depending on the ruling regarding Incense+Candle.  Using BoHM spells and feats just makes it better, so it's more like modern smacks as opposed to old 200 point ones.  

2)  Considering the degree of planning and expenditure of time limited and one shot items involved, PCs with Oath feats will probably be able to use them.  The setup required - not to mention the 13000 GP cost - pretty much limit the attack's use to very special targets.  The kind of enemies that you'd swear an oath to defeat.  Besides, most smackdowns assume somewhat favorable conditions.  

But I agree about the instantaneous buff spells being useless.  For a nano second, your character has the super epic buff on.  But you could still apply all kinds of other limiting factors that, in the contrived Smackdown situation, aren't limiting.  For example, make it a ritual spell that requires a couple of other spell casters to dump all their spell slots and you might be able to get a halfway decent duration on the spell.


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## Archer (Jan 27, 2003)

Ritual epic spells require large groups of moderate to high level casters which must be really hard to gather but if you can do it you should be able to pull off some powerful effects. Each caster can only contribute 1 spell to the epic spell and if you do the day casting times if even one wizard leaves or is knocked out then that's the end of the ritual. If wizards could dump 200 spell levels each into a spell then yes it would be very easy to cast DC 1000 spells.

I said I liked the cleric smackdown but felt it was overly specific and expensive which no one disagrees with.


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## Viktyr Gehrig (Jan 27, 2003)

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
			
		

> *Archer, which smacks had errors in them? *




One of the first smacks on this thread has an error using the 4CTF rules, because they took a limitation on the Gain Feat power-- which isn't allowed to be limited, as it's an alternate usage of Hero points, and not actually a superpower.


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## Burne (Jan 27, 2003)

<Rant>
Archer:
Clearly you are relatively new to the Sultans of Smack thread as the whole Truestrike Potion issue has been repeatedly rehashed.  Before _you_ go on and on about errors, be so kind as to look up citations.  Things like entry 48-50 on the minor potion chart and 87-89 on the minor potion chart, not to mention such verboten potions as ghoul touch (but it's an offensive spell!!!).  Nor does statements like "some guy on Wizard's board said" hold any real value towards rule discussions, in fact, the FAQ, which many people do use, isn't official.  Fortify can create insight and luck bonuses, no where does it say that insight or luck bonuses are magical, or that they must be duration limited.
</rant>
love ya
Burne


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## Archer (Jan 28, 2003)

The FAQ is as official as something could possibly be. The FAQ is as if it were printed in the Player's Handbook or whatever.

The epic handbook is clear as crystal that to make the duration permanent it must be an inherent bonus. Everything that is not permanent is duration limited. Insight and luck bonuses aren't necessarily magical but if you get them from a spell they are.


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## Impeesa (Jan 28, 2003)

Archer said:
			
		

> *The FAQ is as official as something could possibly be. The FAQ is as if it were printed in the Player's Handbook or whatever.
> 
> The epic handbook is clear as crystal that to make the duration permanent it must be an inherent bonus. Everything that is not permanent is duration limited. Insight and luck bonuses aren't necessarily magical but if you get them from a spell they are. *




OK, now you're making me think. Meanies.  This isn't nearly as impressive now, and requires bumping things up to level 27, but it's still far more insane than a level 27 character deserves to be. So, fortify will last 20 hours. We therefore need to lower casting time to something reasonable - 10 minutes will do, we can only cast 3 a day anyways. This increases all these DC 0 spells to DC 200. After removing the Foresee seed (not necessary any more) we're at 183. Now let's say we want it so the first one he casts lasts at least a month after he finishes the last one, enough for a good healthy dungeon crawl or war campaign. A liberal dosage of "Increase duration 100%" will increase the DC by +130, putting us at DC 313 per spell so far. Now, being possible the second most important stat for many cleric builds, let's assume he's managed to scrape together a 30 charisma before all this stuff is applied. So, for one of his non-epic feats, he takes leadership, then at 24th and 27th he takes epic leadership and legendary commander. His leadership score is 37, so thanks to legendary commander, he can have a total of 770 followers of 3rd level or higher. Let's say they're all adepts (who count as 2 levels higher than a normal follower, that's why we're only concerned with 3rd level and up). Each of them contributes a 1st level spell slot - they won't complain, all you're asking of them is half an hour of casting a day. DC is now.. -457. Looks like we can throw in some more fun. 457 points is good for an extra 190 days of duration (assuming 20 hours base for fortify, things like armor will last longer), or an extra +228 to all your enhancement bonuses from fortify, or increase the non-enhancement ones by 76. Since they're basically free (no one's really disputed that part yet, right? ) go ahead and research both the longer lasting and way-too-strong versions of each.  I'm not even going to try and do the calculations this time... for the uber-powerful, month-long versions, I think his ability scores come up above 800. 

Short version: Now he has to spend 25 days casting, to either become a veritable god for a little over 7 months, or go far beyond all estimation of godhood for the next 30 days.  Oh, and if you insist on a minimum dc of 10, he can't afford to research it all until 34th level or so... but still, does any 34th level character deserve to have 800+ ability scores for a month at a time? 

This has been another questionably legal and completely nonsensical post brought to you by way-too-much-time productions. 

Edit: Thanks for the defense Burne, and thanks for making me think Archer - I think I like this version even better. 

--Impeesa--


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 28, 2003)

Korimyr the Rat said:
			
		

> *One of the first smacks on this thread has an error using the 4CTF rules, because they took a limitation on the Gain Feat power-- which isn't allowed to be limited, as it's an alternate usage of Hero points, and not actually a superpower. *



Which thread uses 4CTF rules? I'm interested.
Cause if 4CTF is allowed, than my current SMACKs are in the >2000 range. I haven't posted em (I don't think) to this thread, cause I think it's overpowering.

But RangerWickett was asked, and confirmed that you can use Restrictions on the Gain Feat superpower.

Has this been changed/clarified?

And if we're mentioning old smacks, Black Arrow's Fleet Runner smack is kind of messed up.
I really don't think it would work like that - too many attacks are listed, and I'm pretty sure that now its been clarified that you can't do a partial charge, then a charge, and he was using full Power Attack, in addition to it being a 18th level smack, and used Shield Charge from horseback while using Spirited Charge, and also gives up an AoO.


----------



## Victim (Jan 28, 2003)

Scary stuff Impeesa.  Also, consider that most Epic characters are going to qualify for leadership bonuses for prestige or special powers almost automatically.


----------



## Impeesa (Jan 28, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Scary stuff Impeesa.  Also, consider that most Epic characters are going to qualify for leadership bonuses for prestige or special powers almost automatically. *




Yeah, my whole revision there was more or less off the top of my head - I didn't even begin to consider a character who was maxed out for the purposes of the leadership feat, so it could get even scarier than that. One wonders if 6 months is long enough to use the new charisma mod when calculating leadership scores.... and then researching higher-still bonuses. Mmm..

--Edit: Taking the appropriate leadership bonuses into account and assuming he focuses more on charisma, squeezing a 36 (this is entirely viable for any epic spellcaster, so it could be a sorceror), he can have about 1430 adepts available for casting.  An ability score of 10 would become roughly 1700+. This is assuming, of course, that his 26th level cohort wasn't also a leader of some repute, with a thousand of his own adepts willing to spend half an hour a day casting.  --

Question: I know the book doesn't specifically say you can, but is there any precedent for allowing multiple takings of Leadership? That would get crazy pretty fast....

Something interesting that occurred to me later: If he makes the half hour of casting every morning a regular habit, he can have 2-3 copies of the uber versions, or 7 or so copies of the 'lesser' versions running at all times. Great for some redundant protection against dispelling and whatnot.

--Impeesa--


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## Jeremy (Jan 28, 2003)

Well done!

This is why I can't come up with a good set of guidelines for epic smacks.  The arena is so wide open that there is no target for what's impressive and what's not.  Who's to say what can and can't be done in what time frame at that level?  

The guidelines of epic smacking may have to change to something like defeat x creature by y level in one round or less.  Where X creature is the same for every smack and y level is as low as possible.  Because if the goals are as intangible as they are for 16th level smacks, we could see everyting from all 4 digit stats to lowest level non falling or telekinesis related 10 digit damage figure to a single creature.


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## Burne (Jan 28, 2003)

For a look, admittedly a silly look, at multiple (non-epic) Leadership you have only to look on Page 2 of this fine fine thread about 80% of the way down the page.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 29, 2003)

Jeremy - more errata to earlier smacks:
1st page, bottom : another Black Arrow smack (Singh Rager/Iajutsu).
At the bottom, he mentions adding 4 CHA ups the damage by 224 - i don't think that's right, and I know the Swiftness of the Lioness doubling the damage with partial charges is wrong.

Then top of page 2:
both those top 2 smacks are not Smackdowns - they are characters that were developed for a game-exercise. I THINK they assumed like 7 rounds of damage and a certain AC as an opponent.
The values for damage listed are misleading - those are total damage after like 7 rounds - either point that out, or edit it somehow.
Anyway, I'm sure you don't have the time or inclination, but I thought I'd mention them.


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## Burne (Jan 29, 2003)

Historical Note:
At one time someone (I don't remember who) suggested using a premade opponent as the judge of a smack down, where the metric used was your damage done - damage taken over some period of rounds (10?).  Those guidelines got lost after one of the various thread/board moves.  That is what those couple "weird" smacks are about.

long time lurker and lover of the smackdown thread


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jan 29, 2003)

Well, I'm a little bored so i'll post some combos I came up with a while ago, most require high level spellcasters (perferably Incantrixes).  They're not really true smacks, but most can easily be made into them if you want.


Combo's by the self-entitled "Lord of Munchkins":

*#1)* Arcana Form (Book of Eldritch I)-made persistant via a greater rod of metamagick or incantrix ability and Hide Life (Tome and Blood)
Effect: Cast infinite spells per day, for every round.  Effective with Haste and Two Minds (Relics and Rituals I)

-Above combo with Monte Cook's Call to Gem spells (extended for effect), 21st level spellcaster with Ignore Material Components allows you to paralyze someone (emerald) for the whole day, no save if you chose, or similar combos.
-Above combo with (all BoEM III) Scry Blast and Subtle Scrying, basically kill anyone from anywhere.  Use Scry Beacon to foil everything but 'One Step Beyond'

Tenser's Transformation+Divine Power (via Eldritch Master Dragon PrC, meaning only usable with sorcerers)
Effect: Have a higher attack bonus than the fighter in your group, best made persistant via rods or incantrix ability.

Antimagic Field (perferably Enlarged)+Mastery of Shaping (Archmage ability)
Effect: Be creative 

Antimagic Field+Imbue Arrows Arcane Archer ability-Mixed with True Strike perferably, perhaps use Mastery of Shaping combo above, basically a No save, No SR antimagic field.

Ring of Mesos (Relics and Rituals II), Heighten Spell, Improved Counterspell (FRCS), Reactive Counterspell (Magic of Faerun), Sorcerer
Effect: Counter any spell

Master of Secret Sound (Dragon issue with the theme of epic), with your 10th level-Using the Secret Sound, you can do basically infinite things.  My current favorite is Ice Assassin (WotC Main Site), basically you can get a couple thousand Sorcerer 10 (unless you want to afford alot of spellbooks or took alot of spell mastery feats)/Masters of the Secret Sound 10 in a day, doubling it day by day as you make copies of yourself.

Psionic-Mind Switch, Body Fuel=Fun

Chained (Tome and Blood) Nightmare, effect everyone in the prime with a single spell, wheee!  Now if it would only work... 

Handy Reference:
List of vs. SR Boosters:  Soul in Receptacle (Book of Vile Darkness) for +10, Archmage High Arcana for up to +6, Red Wizard's/Shadow Adept's Spell Power, Create Magic Tattoo x3 for +3, Shadow Weave Magic/Red Wizard Tattoo for +1 each, Circle Magic (FRCS) (not my idea) for up to base caster level 40, Bloodburn (Spells and Spellcraft) for sorcerers for up to their cha mod in + caster levels.


I have about a dozen more some where, but these are all the ones that I can think of right now


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 29, 2003)

> *Tenser's Transformation+Divine Power (via Eldritch Master Dragon PrC, meaning only usable with sorcerers*)*




* or a wizard with Limited Wish, or a cleric with Miracle, or a Wiz 11/Clr 7, or a Bard with a couple of scrolls and lots of UMD, or...

-Hyp.


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## Impeesa (Jan 29, 2003)

Burne said:
			
		

> *For a look, admittedly a silly look, at multiple (non-epic) Leadership you have only to look on Page 2 of this fine fine thread about 80% of the way down the page. *




Hehe.... well if you want to allow that, my bizarre epic spellcasting abuse becomes far more insane. The way Epic Leadership is worded, taking it once makes all your non-epic Leaderships use the Epic Leadership table. And if you allow each cohort to then take Epic Leadership themselves.. dear god, the madness. For a rough estimate, take everything I posted, multiply by 7, and square it. 

Epic smacks: When in doubt, do what WotC did - multiply things by 10.  Anything 2000 damage or more in a single round qualifies, although in the epic levels it's more about style and consistency. I nominate 27th level to be the epic reference level, because it's not unattainably high for a campaign that's lasted that long to begin with, and more importantly, because that's the minimum for mine to work.  

--Impeesa--


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## Mercury (Jan 29, 2003)

*Dwarf Rogue*

Ok, I need some help here, what is the most playable way to create a Dwarf Rogue?  My GM has allowed the 28 point buy system, and items he will deal out once he sees our chracter.  Anybody know the most playable way to create one of these guys at thrid level?


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## DM_Matt (Jan 30, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> *
> 
> * or a wizard with Limited Wish, or a cleric with Miracle, or a Wiz 11/Clr 7, or a Bard with a couple of scrolls and lots of UMD, or...
> 
> -Hyp. *




Or a shaman with the hero domain, or a cleric in a campaign where clerics can take the domains in OA that are for samans bc they dont have clerics.


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## Aloïsius (Jan 30, 2003)

These are the last days of this thread, the end is nigh. Soon, 3.5 will require to redo all those smackdowns. Lots of work. I wonder if the designers have perused this thread ?


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## Jeremy (Jan 30, 2003)

Hah!  That'd be great.  The 3.5 designers used this thread to close up some loopholes...  I'd actually be glad about that, 1) that we contributed to making our hobby better, and 2) ensuring that these tactics while fun to create and devise, become not technically legal for play when you'll be playing with other people who may not have such outrageous capability.


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## Curmudgeon (Feb 6, 2003)

*Shifter Smackdown!*

Hi Jeremy -- My friend told me about this site just for the Smackdown thread.   What fun!  -- and I'm so pleased to have thought of my very own.  I don't own a lot of books, but I like the simpler Smacks better anyway.  Here goes....

====
Supreme Self-Reliant Shifter Smackdown!
(version 1.0, Invincible Uber-Hydra)

For this smackdown, you need:
-- 4 absolutely official, holy writ WotC products (PHB, 
Monster Manual, Masters of the Wild, Tome & Blood)
-- 2 low-level spells, Magic Fang and Might of the Oak, 
(optional, for even better smacking), castable by the 
smackdown character. 
-- 1 (one) commonly available magic item, Boots of 
Speed, for a whopping 8000 GP, or even a mere potion of haste will do in a pinch for 750 shekels.
-- And best of all... (sung to your favorite Xmas carol)
0 Bards-a-Singing
0 Clerics Blessing
0 Wizards Buffing
NO HELP FROM FRIENDS!
(who needs 'em)

The player may also find it useful to stock up on d20's...

Base Character:  Druid 5 / Shifter 7 / Barb 1 / Rogue 3
Race unimportant -- I assume Human for the extra feat.
Stats unimportant, but presumably max Wisdom (I assume 22 
-- 18 plus level-ups), and I'd never play anyone without 14 Con or better.
HP: 8 + 11d8 + 1d12 + 3d6 + 32 (14 Con) = 106.5.  Round down to 100, or 132 when raging (conveniently divisibly by 12).
BAB:  +3 (Druid), +5 (Shifter), +1 (Barb.), +2 (Rogue) = +11
Feats (7):  Alertness, Endurance, Weapon Focus (bite), 
Natural Spell, Quick Wild Shape, + 2 others of your choice 
-- I'll take Improved Init. and Extended Rage. 
Skills not important, apart from max in Knowledge (monsters). 
The character, like any responsible shifter, is a member of the 
local Beastchasers' guild (T&B), and is therefore familiar 
with a variety of monstrous forms.  

(Just so you don't have to look it up, Shifter 7 allows Tiny 
through Huge versions of everything except elementals, 
undead, outsiders, and constructs.)

Our hero is cruising around in Ethereal Marauder form as 
usual (handy little critter, that, since its home plane is 
the ethereal, unlike phase spiders, etc. which require a 
supernatural "manifestation" to go ethereal), wearing his 
boots of speed, which he chose to resize to fit 
his form, as shifters can do (the ethereal marauder is 
"bipedal," though I don't know why, since ethereal 
creatures just float around in any direction they 
please), when he happens upon his next victim(s).   He 
follows them around for a while until he learns what he 
wishes to know about them (mostly who is the wizard, who 
will be attacked first, and who is the cleric, who will be 
next in line).   
WITHOUT EVEN BOTHERING to magic himself up, since he's 
decided they look rather puny, he gets within 15 feet, 
activates his boots of haste (standard action), rages (free 
action) and changes into... (drum roll...)
a 1/2 dragon (black or copper), 1/2 pyro-lernean 
12-headed hydra (move-equivalent action).
He now has:
STR 23 (hydra) + 8 (half-dragon) + 4 (rage) = 35 (+12 bonus)
CON 20 (hydra) + 2 (half-dragon) + 4 (rage) = 26 (rage 
lasts 16 rds.)
AC:  doesn't really matter, but 15 + 4 (half-dragon) + 4 
(haste) -2 (rage) = 21
Total attack bonus = +24
Damage:  2d6 (huge half-dragon bite) + 12 + 2d6 (sneak 
attack) = avg. 26 pts 
Attacks per round....(evil grin)
The Monster Manual clearly states, "The hydra can attack 
with all its heads at no penalty, even if it moves or 
charges during the round."   What kind of action is an 
attack minus a move?  That's right, a PARTIAL action!  
(Bigger evil grin)
Since my opponents are presumably not expecting a massive 
hydra to materialize out of the ether, I'd say my chances 
of a surprise round are somewhere between excellent and 
automatic.   So I use my partial action, plus my bonus 
partial action, to sneak attack 24 times, all at +24 
to hit, for 26 pts. of damage per hit.  Here's the math:
Victim AC (flatfooted)	  Hit %	   Hits/Damage 	Total
	26		.95 X 24 = 22 X 26 =  	572
	30		.75 X 24 = 18 X 26 = 	468	35		.5 X 24  = 12 X 26 = 	312
	38		.35 X 24 = 8 X 26  =  	208
(Even without counting criticals!)

If he can be bothered to cast Might of the Oak and Magic 
Fang (while in Ethereal Marauder form, with Natural Spell), 
therein adding +3 to hit & damage, the numbers look like 
this:
AC	30		.9 X 24 =  21 X 29 = 	609
	35		.65 X 24 = 15 X 29 = 	435
	40		.4  X 24 = 9 X 29  = 	                261
	42		.3 X 24 =  7 X 29  = 	                203

Best part #1:  he doesn't even have 24 heads yet!  
(Although he also loses sneak attack damage in subsequent 
rounds, and if the opponent(s) are taking off 6-8 heads per round, the damage doesn't actually go up that much.)  
Best part #2:  should he win initiative, he does 24 more attacks with two more partial actions, and turns back into an ethereal marauder again on his move, leaving anyone still alive to wonder what the *#$%  just happened (also, by the way,  healing 24 points of damage he didn't take unless one of the victims was a balor and blew up on him or something).    Next step:  lather, rinse, repeat.
Best part #3 --  DE-FENSE:   AC who cares?  -- he takes damage 
only from slashing weapons, the most damage he can take 
from one blow is a whopping 11 pts (132/12), he gets two 
heads back for every one cut off until he reaches 24, 
unless fire or acid damage is applied to the stump, and 
he's immune to fire (pyro-hydra) and to acid (black or 
copper half-dragon).  Oh, and it hardly matters, but he has 
wings and can fly at his normal move (more half-dragon 
bonuses).   The only problem he might have is against a 
colossal number of fighters who could take off 24 heads a 
round and keep him under wraps.  Or there's always death 
magic, so a scarab of protection might come in handy too (but that's why you kill the wizards and clerics first, to avoid being time-stopped, harmed, etc.) 

Can this be made even more massive?  It sure can, with 
the Monster Manual II, which I just got (told you I don't have a lot of books).   Check out the "Monster (Pyro-Lernean Hydra) of Legend" variation.
For this our character needs to add two levels to Shifter, for access to Outsider form, and lose two levels of Rogue.
Choosing from the Monster of Legend extraordinary ability options, we'll keep him immune to fire & acid, and throw in poison as well (or fear, if he's taking on a dragon).
Now his AC is 15 + 4 (haste) + 5 (legend) + 2 (dex) - 2 
(rage) = 24
Str:  23 + 10 (legend) + 4 (rage) + 4 (Might of Oak) = 41
(+15 bonuses)
Total attack bonus = +28
Damage = 2d6 (Huge Legendary) + 16 + 1d6 (sneak) = 26.5
The math:
AC	30	.95 X 24 = 22 X 26.5 = 	583 	
	35	.7 X 24  = 16 X 26.5 = 	424
	40	.45 X 24 = 10 X 26.5 =            265
	42	.35 X 24 = 8 X 26.5 = 	212

Basically the same numbers, BUT here's the kicker:  
poison bite (Ex. ability)  with save of DC 34!! -- 10 + 8 (1/2 of 16 HD) + 12 (Con modifier) + 4 (Ex. ability) -- sapping 1d6 Str. per hit.
Sir Savealot, the 20th level paladin NPC described in the 
DMG, has "only" +21 on his Fort save, so he's missing 60% 
against my uber-hydra.  If we give him flatfooted AC 35 (5 
better than listed in the DMG), then he's failing 9 fortitude saves (rounding down), taking 9d6 Str. damage (in addition to 424 pts. of damage), per round.  Not a good day at the office for him.

==

Like it?  Clearly, I'm taking advantage of two "broken" things:  the hydra's move + attack capacity (probably should be downgraded to "pounce"), and the use of templates for shapechanging purposes (should be disallowed for polymorph self, wild shape, and maybe even the shapechange spell).   
But then, finding the seams in the rules is what this thread is all about, isn't it?


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## Black Arrow (Feb 6, 2003)

*Naga smack query*



			
				Archer said:
			
		

> *That naga smack is a little hard to follow for me. I don't follow the str x3 and damage x3 on the first attack. I see str x2 for power lunge or mantis leap and damage x2 for flying kick. Potions of true strike aren't a valid item. Constriction lets you deal 1.5x str damage instead of just normal strength damage on a grapple check, not do double damage on grapple attacks. What is the justification for falling damage? The smack works on evil medium sized creatures without reach weapons with no allies, a bit of a stretch even for a smack. The bracers of sure striking aren't adding anything to the smack and neither is the ring of jumping or the striding and springing. You are using bands and bracers?.  I see the initial attack damage as 112 avg. and each follow up as 4d8 + 24. You forget the -2 to hit for size and the amulet and gloves don't stack. Mantis Leap and Power Lunge are redundant as are flying kick feat and flying kick from tiger's leap sandals but naga don't have feet. Creatures without legs seem like they wouldn't be able to use the jump skill at all, much like creatures without hands can't pick locks.
> 
> A non smack character could kill the naga before she ran through the 4-action warm up of activating haste, righteous might, shocking grasp and rage.
> 
> I have to agree that Rokugani Constrictor and other AEG naga are light on the ECL. The OA Constrictor has an ECL of 12 or so and it has a move of 20 instead of 40. *





Hi Archer,

I intended to write sooner, but was locked out from posting a reply this past month.  Morrus just fixed this.  Now, to respond to your comments...

Power lunge and Mantis leap are unnamed Str bonuses and should stack accordingly.  I replaced Sandals of Tiger Leap with 'Bands of Tiger Leap' to fit the naga anatomy... same slot, but as an unnamed bonus it should also stack with Flying Kick...hence x3 Str, x3 charge.  This would probably be worse using Reaper's suggestion to use Rhino hide and forgetting the grapple altogether.

You're right about constriction dealing only x1.5 Str bonus.  Take off 6 dmg from each grapple attack.  However.  Power attack can arguably be used for each grapple 'attack roll,'  which could add up to 10 additional dmg per successful grapple check, more than off-setting this (not sure whether this would carry over to constriction dmg.  Maybe not).

Falling object damage per DMG (p. 89), treating the naga's 5 ton body landing on the target as that object.

Smack requires an evil opponent for smite.  Non-medium-size target will change BAB/grappling checks.  Bracers of striking are for fiends and other creatures with high DR.  More damage could also be achieved by adding flaming, shocking, and other magic effects to the bracers.  Amulet and gloves do stack, as long as the bonuses are different.  Good catch on the initial size BAB penalty (becomes a bonus when grappling).  Amulet of mighty fists +3 would offset this (and add more dmg), but would be expensive.

Ring or jumping/striding & springing were for maxing out the jump skill, which is employed with the charge, and would allow the naga to circumvent most buddies of a bad guy hiding in the back.

Shocking grasp could be turned on long before any combat.  This smack assumes preparation time for the naga.  If not, smack would proceed with only haste being activated, per 'large-size' addendum.  Naga could always be polymorphed [well] before-hand into a standard huge size constrictor naga, which avoids some impetus for righteous might too.  I don't have Rokugan campaign book with me now, but monks are designed to be expert jumpers ('leap of the clouds'), and the constrictor's favored class IIRC is monk, so I assume they can jump.

In any case, I designed this smack to combine two effective grapping techniques -- monk unarmed attacks and constriction.  I may add edits if I have time.  Cheers!


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## Jeremy (Feb 6, 2003)

*Re: Shifter Smackdown!*



			
				Curmudgeon said:
			
		

> *Like it?  Clearly, I'm taking advantage of two "broken" things:  the hydra's move + attack capacity (probably should be downgraded to "pounce"), and the use of templates for shapechanging purposes (should be disallowed for polymorph self, wild shape, and maybe even the shapechange spell).
> But then, finding the seams in the rules is what this thread is all about, isn't it? *




Welcome to the boards!     Glad you liked it, a lot of people have had a lot of fun here and that is one creative smack!  I'm not sure if using templates is allowed, I know it is specifically disallowed for polymorph self from which wild shape is based, but I'm not sure if it's disallowed from the new revised wild shape in master of the wild or greater wildshape, though my bet is we'll soon find out it is.

Very nice use of different forms abilities.  Very fun stuff.  Hope it turns out to be legal.


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## Jeremy (Feb 6, 2003)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Combo's by the self-entitled "Lord of Munchkins":
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I have about a dozen more some where, but these are all the ones that I can think of right now *




That's some very hot stuff!  If you find that second dozen, by all means throw them up there, this is great stuff.


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## Aloïsius (Feb 6, 2003)

What about a netbook of smackdown ? We need a template form (so that all smackdowns will be easily readable), a validation process (so that all smackdowns are legit), and voilà, we have the most popular netbook ever made. What do you think ?


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## Ave Rage (Feb 7, 2003)

Can anyone make a bard-smack down?  And not lv.1bard/rogue3/etc etc but a pure Bard.

Pretty much every class has a main-theme they can exploit:
Wiz- magic
Druid- animal/change shape
Rogue - sneak attack
Cleric - the whole class


But the bard has music and some lesser spells.  I just cant see any way of getting to even a 100 dmg let alone 200+.


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## DM with a vengence (Feb 9, 2003)

Here's a straight Bard smackdown.

Bard 16

Charisma 28 (18+4+6)

Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Use Magic Device: +29 (19+7+3)

Use your insane Use Magic Device and scrolls to duplicate a wizard/cleric smackdown of your choice.


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## DM with a vengence (Feb 9, 2003)

And here is the most damaging Smackdown EVAR.  The Smackdown to end all Smackdowns.  After this post you'll close the thread because theire's nothing left to Smack.  If you'll please cue the music.

You need.

1 Psionicist (Telepathy), of at least 6th level with a Charisma of at least 13 and an item that casts Haste, Schism, or any similar power.

2 Creatures (A and B), preferably with low will saves.

Round 1:
1) Activate Haste.
2) Manifest Fate Link, linking A to B
3) Do not die


Round 2:
1) Manifest Fate Link, linking B to A
2) Deal at least 1 point of damage to either A or B.
3) Run.

*Total Damage:  Infinity*

That's right, Infinity damage with three 3rd level Powers, and two rounds.  

What happens is a Fate Link feedback device.  As soon as A takes any damage, B takes it, which causes A to take the damage again, causing B to take the damage yet again, and so on, the net effect being damage to rocket skyward so quickly that both creatures explode in fountains of blood, but not before taking enough damage to wipe out the universe.


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## Impeesa (Feb 9, 2003)

Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *What about a netbook of smackdown ? We need a template form (so that all smackdowns will be easily readable), a validation process (so that all smackdowns are legit), and voilà, we have the most popular netbook ever made. What do you think ? *




Quite some time ago, I had an interesting idea... what about a web site devoted to smackdowns as well as more generally useable min/max builds? Have them in a searchable database, with a system to allow for reader comments, or something like that. It really wouldn't be all that hard to set up, provided someone had server space that allows PHP and SQL...

--Impeesa--


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## Riveneye (Feb 10, 2003)

Hmmm, I do know PHP and mySQL, and have access to a host that supports both. I don't know if my host would really be suitable for such a thing though. But, if you really want to start this up and have no where else to turn, give me a yell.


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## Burne (Feb 10, 2003)

Thank you DM with a Vengence, just last night I was bemoaning the lack of an infinite damage Smackdown loop at our Sunday night game.  Now the catch is you need a monster that can take an infinite amount of damage without dying (thus ruining the fun).
Vampiric Tarrasques, perhaps....


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## Someone (Feb 10, 2003)

It´s a long thread, so I have no time to read it all; Did someone the smackdown of Psichofeedback+Power critical+ Mind feeder weapon?


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## Surefoot (Feb 11, 2003)

I know of a baddie who can take infinite damage without dieing.

It must be a cleric, who casted
a) favor of illmatar
b) monstrous regeneration

Explanation:
b) converts all damage (except fire and acid) to subdual damage
a) means you are immune to subdual damage

Thus your Banite is invincible!


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## Jeremy (Feb 11, 2003)

Both the above have been mentioned though neither have been made into full smacks.  The psycho feedback one covered more of the details but was more of a power play then a fully fleshed out and optimized smackdown.


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## Surefoot (Feb 11, 2003)

How is the ultimate smackdown defined? 

Was a ranger/barbarrian/fighter/tribal protector/weapon master or something already suggested?


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## Jeremy (Feb 11, 2003)

It would be a 16th level legal character with either point buy or reasonable dice roll stats within the limits of the gp value of items for a character of his level that does the maximum possible damage within a single round with average rolls and achievable circumstances.  

I don't know about a weaponsmaster tribal protector, but we had a frenzied berserker tribal protector with incredible strength and number of attacks per round.

With frenzy, wild fighting, frenzied attack, and high base attack all granting additional attacks, two handed power strike capitolizing on high strength and a good high damage good critical possibility will make a great smackdown...


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## Surefoot (Feb 11, 2003)

Humm have you already seen a barbarrian fighter tribal defender frenzied berserker weaponsmaster with a mercurial greatsword and power critical and cleave? If not, i'll try to figure out the average dmg the first round. Do you allow for polymorphing into firbolgs?


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## Darkness (Mar 1, 2003)

Surefoot said:
			
		

> *...
> Thus your Banite is invincible! *



To damage, but not to other things, right?

BTW... Jeremy and all you smackers, are y'all already looking forward to smacking in D&D 3.5?


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## Burne (Mar 2, 2003)

For tons of Smackdown goodness, check out Savage Species. Seriously, the writer's were writing to this thread.  A few samples.

General Feat that grants 2/- DR, can be taken over and over, requires 20 Con and toughness.  Sounds like one burly dwarf to me.

Lion's Pounce: 2nd level Wiz/Sor, 1st level Druid spell. minutes/level, touched target get the ability to charge and full attack.

Girillon's Blessing: 10 minutes/level, target gets lots of extra arms.  Medium sized blokes can have up to 2 extra pairs.

Rules for more than 2 hands on a weapon, you get an extra 1/2 Str per hand (see above)

Painful stuff


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## thegreatbuddha (Mar 15, 2003)

*The Machine Gun*

Human Wizard9/Mystic7

Feats:
Spell Penetration (Human)
Spell Focus - Any (1st)
Quicken Spell (3rd)
Twin Spell (6th)
Greater Spell Penetration (9th)
Scribe Scroll (Wizard bonus feat)
Extend Spell (Wizard5)

Equipment: Lesser Rod of Quickening

Setup: By 7th level, a Mystic can permanently apply the Empower feat (through Spell Secret class ability) a total of 4 times.  Drop it all on Magic Missile.  Now, Memorize 5 Twinned Magic MIssile, Haste, and Spell Haste (From the Villiagn Design Handbook; 2nd level spell).

Surprise Round: With surprise partial action, cast Haste.  With Haste partial action, cast Spell Haste.  With Rod of Quickening, cast Quickened Twinned Quadruple Empowered Magic Missile.

Round 1: Cast Twinned Quadruple Empowered Magic Missile as a standard action.  Cast Twinned Quadruple Empowered Magic Missile as a move-equivalent action (from Spell Haste).  Cast Twinned Quadruple Empowered Magic Missile with partial action from Haste.  Cast Quickened Twinned Quadruple Empowered Magic Missile with Rod of Quickening.

Damage per missile: (3.5 *3=10.5)

As a 9th level caster, each Magic Missile spell produces 5 missiles, doubled for being twinned.  That's 10 Magic Missiles per spell.

Surprise Round: 10 Magic Missiles (10*10.5=105)

Round 1: 40 Magic Missiles (40*10.5=420)

Total Damage: 525

Since Spell Haste doesn't grant any additional actions, it stacks with Haste (It allows 1 spell per round to be cast as a MEA).  Even without Spell Haste, you only lose 1 casting, or 10 missiles.  The smackdown still does 420 points of damage.

The Mystic PrC, which this class is built around, was designed before adding +1 caster level became standard practice.  If we were to assume that the Mystic PrC was actually a +1 caster level/2 levels class, and you went wizard7/Mystic9, all of the magic missiles would be empowered 1 additional time, as well as maximized for free.  If you add the Persistent power feat, you can cast a Persitent Spell Haste at the beginning of each day, which allows you to eek out 1 more swarm of Magic Missiles.  Also, you could Empower each Magic missile Spell cast 1 additional time.  So, you would be casting Twinned Maximized Septuple-Empowered Magic Missiles.

Damage per Missile: (5*4.5=22.5)

Surprise Round: 20 Missiles (20*22.5=450)

Round 1 : 40 MIssiles (40*22.5=900)

Total Damage: 1350.

Just imagine what this guy could do if he chose to modify Ray of Enfeeblement instead (155 strength damage anyone?).


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## Jeremy (Mar 15, 2003)

60 streaking missiles that all seek an unerringly strike their target.  Now that's fun stuff.  I'm sure someone will talk about shield or minor globes, but me, I want to talk about missile batteries firing from the broadside of galaxy star cruisers with pin point accuracy.  60 sounds about right from me, now what does it look like if a person does it?

Vegeta.  That's what.  Of course, that attack always seems to do absolutely nothing, but it looks good!  

One side note though, ray of enfeeblement will never take strength below 1 unfortunately.


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## thegreatbuddha (Mar 15, 2003)

I use a hybrid of 2e shield and 3e shield IMC.  It functions as normal, but it blocks one magic missile spell and is destroyed in the process.  It just seems overpowered otherwise 

You can also do this smack with a Scarred Lands spell.  I don't remember the name of the spell, but it's a magic missile that deals fire damage and its 2 missiles+1/2 levels.  They require ranged touch attacks, which would be 60 in this case, at +12 to hit (with an 18 Dex).  If they all hit, that would be 630 points of damage.


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## Epametheus (Mar 15, 2003)

I don't think Bane would grant _Favor of *Ilmatar*_...

And that magic missile smack would be a cool visual.


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Mar 15, 2003)

Will 3.5e smacks have their own thread?

How about 3.5e smacks with 3.0e classbooks? 



> The psycho feedback one covered more of the details but was more of a power play then a fully fleshed out and optimized smackdown.




What's the difference between a power play and a smackdown?

(Okay, the smackdown has to be difficult to set up...)


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## Jeremy (Mar 15, 2003)

General Requirements for the term "smackdown":

-Creative
-Entertaining
-16 level PC’s/Good Guys or lower (CR20 Monsters/Bad Guys or lower)
200+ points of damage in a single round to one opponent or more (cumulative damage does not apply, i.e. no 60 damage fireball that hits 4 people), preferably if not the first round, then the first round then enemy can react to you
-Legal according to published rules, sourcebooks, and expansions

General definition of the term "power play":

A combination of feats, class abilities, racial abilities, magical items, and/or spells and powers that have strong synergy.

So the suggestion of using the large amount of temporary power points from a mindfeeder weapon to boost physical stats by an incredible amount would be a power play, while a fully fleshed out 16th level character being shown to employ this tactic with an assortment of gear and classes that would further optimize it for an entertaining and impressive opening round performance would be a smackdown.

The above terms and terminology are only my opinion, and as this project is community built and imagined, is only as important relative to the amount of alcohol imbibed prior to reading it.


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## TabulaRasa (Mar 17, 2003)

*The Half ogre BMF*

Ok. Now it is my turn to make a smack down.
I have just got Savage Species. It is full of great broken races, spells and items.

The BMF
Half ogre ECL +1
Stats made with pointbuy 32
Str:  	18+6+4+4+4+4+6+10=56
Race, leveling, manual, size, rage, belt, greater frenzy 
Dex: 	12-2=10
Con: 	14+2+6=22
Race, item 
Int: 	14-2=12
Wis:	  8=8
Cha:	  8-2=6

Level 				
1: Barbarian 			
2: Fighter
3: Fighter
4: Fighter
5: Fighter
6: Tribal protector
7: Tribal protector
8: Frenzied berserker
9: Frenzied berserker
10: Frenzied berserker
11: Frenzied berserker
12: Frenzied berserker
13: Frenzied berserker
14: Frenzied berserker
15: Frenzied berserker
16: Frenzied berserker

Bab 16/11/5/1
Saves: fort 21; Ref 8; Will 5
AC: 14 (10 base +4 natural +5 armor +4 haste -1 size -2 size ring -4 frenzy -2 rage)
Feats: Intimidating Rage, Power attack, Cleave, Greater Cleave, Destructive rage, Exotic weapon prof gold great axe, Weapon focus Great axe, Weapon special Great axe, 
Class features: Supreme cleave, Deathless Frenzy, Wild fighting, Remain Conscious, improved power attack, greater frenzy, inspire frenzy 2/day, Frenzy 4/day, Tribal enemy, Homeland
Skills: Wilderness lore 4

To make this smack down BMF need:
Ring of growth 18.000.- (pg 54 SS)
Belt of giants strength +6 36.000.- (dmg)
Potion of haste 750.- (dmg)
Rhino hide 5.165.- (dmg)
Potion of Lion's Charge 50.- (pg 68 SS)
Heavy (gold) Huge great axe +1 of speed 60.980.-(MOF, dmg)
Manual of gainful exercise +4 110.000.- (dmg) 
Braces of health +6 36.000.-
In all 266.000.-

To make this work BMF need the party wiz or cleric to cast "Girallon's Blessing" (pg 66. SS) on BMF after he has activated the ring of growth. This gives BMF 4 extra sets of arms, when he attack holding the huge axe in all 10 arms he gets 5.5 times his Str modifier to damage. (pg 42. SS) 

Round 1: Drink potion of haste, activate ring of growth
Round 2: Start frenzy, Drink potion of Lion's charge, Charge and full attack

Attack mod:
+2 charge, +16 Bab, +23 Str, +1 weapon focus, +1 weapon enhancement, -2 size from ring, -1 size from race, -2 from wild fighting, -2 from confusion=36

The Lion's charge makes it possible to charge as a part of a full attack
Atk: 36 dmg: 12D6+258=300
Full attack using wild fight, extra attack from frenzy and extra attack from weapon of speed.
29/24/19/34/34/34; A hit does 6D6+129=150
If all attacks including the charge hit, the damage is 48D6+1200=1386


This BMF is a very nasty opponent, he has natural reach 15" and with the Deathless Frenzy class ability it is not possible to kill him by physical damage in 9 rounds 

I know that the Half ogre is +1 ECL. If it is a problem I just remove 1 fighter level. The smack is still valid. He will not have weapon specialization, but that doesn't matter that much. 

Charge attack
Atk: 34 dmg: 12D6+248=290
Full attack using wild fight, extra attack from frenzy and extra attack from weapon of speed.
27/22/32/32/32; A hit does 6D6+124=145
If all attacks including the charge hit, the damage is 42D6+868=1015



/Tabula


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## LokiDR (Mar 24, 2003)

*Savage Species-too many attacks*

Half-ogre many-attack fighter

Str 18 +6(race) +3(level) +4(Manual) +6(item) = 37 (+13 str mod)
Dex 18 +6(item) = 24(+7 dex mod)

Ftr 9, Brb 1, Tribal Protector 2, Frenzied Bezerker 5

Feats:
1: Destructive Rage
3: Intimidating Rage
6: Ambidex
9: Weapon Focus - Huge Greatsword
12: Weapon Specialization - Huge Greatsword
15: Rapid Shot

Ftr 1: Power Attack
Ftr 2: Cleave
Ftr 4: Great Cleave
Ftr 6: Two Weapon Fighting
Tribal Protector 1: Point Blank Shot

Relevant Class features:
	Rage, Frenzy, Wild Fighting

Equipment: (260,000)
72,300  Huge Greatsword (3d6 damage) +4 Throwing Returning "Toothpick"
111,000 Manual of gainful exercise +4
36,000	Belt of Giant's Str +6
36,000	Gloves of Dex +6
3,650	Full-plate with +1 armor spikes
	Potion of Haste

Melee Attack (while rage + frenzy) 15 (BAB) +13 (str) +5(rage+frenzy) = 33
Missle Attack 15 (BAB) +7 (dex) = 22
Huge Great Sword Melee: 38/33/28
Huge Great Sword Missle: 27
Armor Spikes: 34

Damage
	Huge Greatsword Melee - 3d6 + 23 ~= 33
	Huge Greatsword Ranged - 3d6 + 17 ~= 27 
	Armor Spikes - 1d6 + 7 ~= 10

Full Attack: 3 iterative attacks, + frenzy, wild fighting, haste, rapid shot, and TWF
	-6 to all attacks in the round
	Melee: Toothpick at +32/+32/+32/+32/+27/+22 and +28 for armor spikes
	5 foot step back (during a full attack)
	Missle: Toothpick at +21

	Against an AC 22 or lower...
	95%( 6x( 3d6+23 ) + 1d6+7 + 3d6+17 ) = 95%( 22d6+162 ) ~= 227

Note: this ignores criticals (19-20) and any use of power attack.  
For more attacks at a lower bonus, drop the half-ogre and use a non-ECL race.  I'm not sure if that would still make it to smack-down range though


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## TabulaRasa (Mar 24, 2003)

*Re: Savage Species-too many attacks*



			
				LokiDR said:
			
		

> *
> Full Attack: 3 iterative attacks, + frenzy, wild fighting, haste, rapid shot, and TWF *




Haste and Frenzy extra attack doesn't stack

/Tabula


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## Darklone (Mar 24, 2003)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> *I use a hybrid of 2e shield and 3e shield IMC.  It functions as normal, but it blocks one magic missile spell and is destroyed in the process.  It just seems overpowered otherwise
> 
> You can also do this smack with a Scarred Lands spell.  I don't remember the name of the spell, but it's a magic missile that deals fire damage and its 2 missiles+1/2 levels.  They require ranged touch attacks, which would be 60 in this case, at +12 to hit (with an 18 Dex).  If they all hit, that would be 630 points of damage. *




Flame Bolt from Rituals&Relics I. Love that spell.

Due to description useable with PBS for more damage (Dare to say sneak attack?)


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## thegreatbuddha (Mar 25, 2003)

Hmm...  Point Blank Shot & Pyro in conjunction with Flame Bolt would mean I was firing a total of 7 Flame Bolt spells, each spell producing 14 bolts (Twinned, remember ), each dealing 23.5+1d6 damage.

Let's see, thats: 7*14*(23.5+3.5)=2646 average damage, assuming each missile hits.

If we ditch Quicken Spell, pick up a Lesser Rod of Persistent Spell, take Weapon Focus (Flame Bolt), and use one of our 7th level slots to pop out an Extended Double-Empowered Cat's Grace, we can a Dex of 34 (if we put our level up ability points into Dex and find a Tome of Dexterity+5).  Our attack bonus with Flame Bolt is now +22 within 30ft, and it's a touch attack.

Against a touch AC of 20, we hit 95% of the time.  Thats still 2513.7 points of damage.  Outside our 3oft range, that drops to 2415 damage.  Still respectable.

Thanks Darklone


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## gorath (Apr 18, 2003)

*Rogue Scroll Smack*

Hi i just found the "Wieldskill" spell (1st level) from Magic of Faerun. It grants the user a +10 competence bonus to all skills.

So take the Rogue Sroll Smack @ page 8 and following progression:

Human: 18 CHA

1 rog: Skill Focus (UMD), Quick Draw
2 clr
3 rog+: Improved Initiative

Now you get 

+2 Decipher Script (5 ranks)
+2 Spellcraft (5 ranks) from clr
+2 Skill Focus
+10 Wieldskill
+4  CHA Mod 

So after 3rd Level you roll 27-40 at your UMD check, failure 5% rolling 1 at d20. ;-)

you can go for UMD 23 @ Level 11 to use every magic item if you roll at least a 2.

Gorath


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## Jeremy (Apr 18, 2003)

Skill rolls don't autofail on 1's.


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## gtJormungand (Apr 18, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Skill rolls don't autofail on 1's. *




Use Magic Device has a note in the Retry entry that says that rolling a 1 automatically fails and that you can't activate the magical item again for a day.


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## Jeremy (Apr 18, 2003)

Ah hah!  I *am* an idiot!  Thanks for clearing that up.  Where'd my rock of crawling under go?


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## CRGreathouse (Apr 19, 2003)

**bangs on Jeremy's rock**



			
				gtJormungand said:
			
		

> *Use Magic Device has a note in the Retry entry that says that rolling a 1 automatically fails and that you can't activate the magical item again for a day. *




Yeah, that's what I had always thought, too.  It's not what it says, though -- it says that if you roll a one and fail, you can't try again for one day.


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## Janos Audron (Apr 21, 2003)

*Arcane DC Smack*

*The *Almost* Insane DC Smack*


*Intro:*
Caliban reaching DC 48 was good, me getting it to 57 was better. Sollir beat us both by getting DC 72. However, those saves could be made by the Save Smackdown Character. Using this Smack, even that character just has a 5% chance to save against any 0th level spell.

*Summary:*
Using Oriental Adventures and taking the Maho-Tsukai class, it is easy to get a very high DC. The trick is getting your Taint skyhigh, and for that, you need lots and lots of Wisdom.

_The Smack:_

*Classes:*
Maho-Tuskai 14 / Archmage 2

*Important Stats:*
Wisdom 18 (start)  +2 (Racial from being Vanara) +6 (Periapt of Wisdom) +5 (Inherent) +4 (level) +3 (Age) = 38 Wisdom.

*Level progression:*
Start as a arcane spellcasting class. When you reach 6th level trade your levels in whatever casting class for levels in Maho-Tsukai.

Go up to 14th level in Mho-Tsukai. Make sure you aren't very tainted, since you need to make the will save to switch classes.

Take two levels of Archmage for Spellpower 1 and 2.

Acquire, by using spells 75 Taint (and thus getting a 37 pentaly on your Wisdom, making you almost insane).

*Items:*
Periapt of Wisdom +6
Tome of Wisdom +5
Amulet of the Arcanist
Other DC boosting items to raise your DC even further.

*DC so far:*
10 (base) + 75 (Taint) + 3 (Spellpower) + 2 (Amulet) + Spell Level.

*Final DC's:*
Level 0: 90
Level 1: 91
Level 2: 92
Level 3: 93
Level 4: 94
Level 5: 95
Level 6: 96
Level 7: 97
Level 8: 98
Level 9: 99

Note: This is the DC for *all* your spells. Using Spell Focus (required for Archmage PrC anyway) and Greater Spell Focus, you have a DC of 103 in those schools.


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## Jeremy (Apr 22, 2003)

Ah those crazy Aku's...  Akutenshi's and Maho-Tsukai's and ali baba's have absolutely crazy unbalanced abilities just to provide inhumanly uber bad guys.  There should be a rule against them being smackdowns.    But there isn't!  So kudos for another DM there's-always-someone-bigger-and-badder smack!


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## Deaths_Fist (Apr 22, 2003)

*Chop, slice, hack, mince, whack, death.*

Hey, finally found this thread again!  Couldn't remember where it was...

Anyway, has anyone on this thread pondered the fun of a Flaming-Burst-Mercurial-Greatsword-wielding, monkey-gripping, Tempest-PrC-levelling, power-attacking, hasted, really-lucky-with-criticals thri-kreen character?  Toss on Girallon's Blessing for two extra arms, and that's a LOT of big swords headed one's way...

Just an idle thought.  Anyone think I should spend the time to post stats on this?

P.S. And then it could go epic and finish out the tempest class and have 10 levels of Weapon master at level 31 (not a valid smackdown but still FUN), for somewhere in the region of 26 attacks, a full 25% of which can be expected to critical, and that's only on average.  Whee!


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## Endarire (Apr 24, 2003)

*Endarire's "Got Mana?" Strat*

Effectively Titled: "Got Mana?"

(This works best with a Wizard as it can be done at L17, but it can be done with a sorcerer at later levels, perhaps to greater effect.)

Required Materials:
Tome & Blood
Book of Eldritch Might

Recommended Materials:
Time Stop scroll
Wish scroll
Cleric with Restoration, True Resurrection and Regeneration spells
Greater Quickening/Empowering/Maximizing metamagic rods
High spell resistance vs Dispel
Wands of any spell you currently can't cast
A forgiving DM

Warnings:
-Hide Life costs 5000 EX a casting; beware.
-Arcana Form makes you disappear in antimagic fields until the AMF or AF ends, whichever is shorter.
-Arcana Form only lasts 10 minutes/level.
-Blood Magus officially requires being ressed which is why I recommend taking it at L18 after being True Resurrected.
-Your DM will probably brand you as a munchkin. 

Using the spells Hide Life (T&B) which makes you invincible so long as one part of you isn't destroyed and Arcana Form (BoEM) which allows you to cast spells without removing them from spells per day, but at 5 HP/spell level.

Official Minimal Procedure:
1: Learn Hide Life and Arcana Form, preferably at L17.  Hopefully you can procure Time Stop and Wish scrolls from previous roleplaying or other party wizards.
2: Cast Hide Life and place your part in a very secure place.
3: If you have no more L9 spell slots for the day, wait a day and prepare Arcana Form.
4: Prepare your favorite list of spells, preferably highly metamagicked.
5: Cast Arcana Form.
6: Say the famous powergamer phrase, "Got MILK, Mr. Dragon?" right before you lay the smack down.

Additions:
-Have the cleric cast Regeneration on you to regain the lost part.
-Taking a level in Blood Magus will allow you to increase spell DC by 1 by taking 1 damage as well as take damage instead of using material components.
-Metamagic rods allow you to do nasty things with Time Stop, especially when using a rod each of greater Empower/Quicken/Maximize.  (This is subject to DM approval.)
-Arcana Form allows you to use wands without expending charges at the cost of temporary 1 CON point per charge.  Just have the Cleric restore you as needed.

Notes on Epic Games:
You can use Persistant Spell to make Arcana Form last all day.  Add in Improved Metamagic (Metamagic feats require 1 less level to use to a minimum of 1), Auto-Quicken, and Multispell for more magnificient magical massacring.

Game away.

-EE


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## Jeremy (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Chop, slice, hack, mince, whack, death.*



			
				Deaths_Fist said:
			
		

> *Anyway, has anyone on this thread pondered the fun of a Flaming-Burst-Mercurial-Greatsword-wielding, monkey-gripping, Tempest-PrC-levelling, power-attacking, hasted, really-lucky-with-criticals thri-kreen character?  Toss on Girallon's Blessing for two extra arms, and that's a LOT of big swords headed one's way...*




Actually yes.  But I can't figure out a way to do it at sixteenth level and with the available funds.  Anything can be crazy by 31st level so it's not as fun.  16th level before the money has sky rocketed is much more challenging.  However, maximizing number of attacks, with high mulitplier crits, flaming burst multipliers, and girallon's blessing is a great combination.  Tempest would be better left out for fighter feats using improved multiweapon fighting and the like though ECL may limit you before 16.

As for the Arcana Form/Hide Life combination, that is very cool.  Unfortunately, as ninth level spells they are generally not good spell to build smacks off of.  The 16th level cap on smackdowns is there because some people feel that game balance breaks down somewhat at 17th level and beyond.  But that is an incredibly clever combination!  Kudos!


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## LokiDR (Apr 24, 2003)

*Has this already been done?*

Concept: Imbue Familar with Spell Ability, quicken spell, haste, and Share Spells with familar.

First round: wizard casts haste on himself and it also affects the familar on his shoulder.  Then the wizard cast an offensive spell and a quickened offensive spell, the familar casts a standard, haste, and quickened offensive spells.


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## Endarire (Apr 24, 2003)

This could be done with mutliple scrolls of Hide Life and Arcana Form, though it'd be expensive.

-EE


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## jabberwocky (Apr 25, 2003)

*wounding smack*

so, this is inspired by the thri-kreen+girralon's blessing remark and by the thread about wounding, etc.
i'm doing this from work and from memory, so feel free to point out any mistakes i make
this is also not fully fleshed out for damage, etc, just number of attacks and bleed damage, so i guess it's not a true smackdown, but...*shrug*

thri-kreen fig2/bar1/ran1/gladiator9 (ECL 16)
BAB +15 (for greater multiweapon fighting)
relevant feats + class abilities
Vicious Wound (from Savage Species)
Multi-weapon fighting
Ambidexterity
Improved Multi-weapon fighting
Greater Multiweapon fighting
make them bleed (gladiator)

7 +1 wounding crescent knives (8000 gp each)
1 +1 wounding, speed crescent knife (72,000 each)
8 flasks alchemist viciousness (50gp each) (from wizards website)
total 120,400 GP

since these are crescent knives there are two strikes with each one - if necessary all of the wounding weapons can be enchanted as double weapons to make sure each blade of the crescent knife does wounding damage - in that case 240,400 GP

have girallon's blessing cast on the thri-kreen for two extra pairs of arms

8 arms*3attacks each, +1 from speed weapon
total attacks=25, becomes 50 for the crescent knife
if every attack is successful (unlikely, but it could happen), you end up with +1 bleed from 'wounding' + 1 from 'make them bleed', +1 from 'vicious wound' + 1 from 'alchemists viciousness'= 4 bleed damage from every attack

which brings you to a total of 200 points of pure bleeding damage at the beginning of the next round as all of the unlucky victim's blood drops out of his body!

so, does this count?  anything that makes this totally invalid?


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## Deaths_Fist (Apr 25, 2003)

jabberwocky said:
			
		

> *have girallon's blessing cast on the thri-kreen for two extra pairs of arms*




Girallon's Blessing can only give a Medium-sized creature a total of six arms, so you're only going to get one extra pair of arms out of it.  That IS some impressive bleeding, though.  Maybe not a true smack, but still MEAN. 

BTW, where are the crescent knives from?


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## jabberwocky (Apr 25, 2003)

> Girallon's Blessing can only give a Medium-sized creature a total of six arms, so you're only going to get one extra pair of arms out of it. That IS some impressive bleeding, though. Maybe not a true smack, but still MEAN.





well, darn...ok reworking this
(the crescent knives are from one of the early 3e dragons - same one that had the elven thinblade.  they let you make two attack rolls doing 1d3+1/2 str bonus for every attack - same general mechanic as shuriken, but melee)
swap thrikreen out for a human (you can still get 6 arms, right?) 
so you still have 36 attacks (6 arms*3 iterative)*2
to make up the 3 ecl for thrikreen take two more level of fighter and one rogue, take arterial strike (from song and silence) which lets you swap 1d6 sneak attack for 1 bleeding damage.
drop the speed wounding knife and get boots of haste
use the move-equivalent from haste to use bluff (gladiator ability)
half of your attacks do an extra one point (same reasoning as shuriken - one sneak attack per attack, even with multiple strikes) 
this gets us 18*5+18*4=162
the last 38 points, damn, cant quite make it - if you had greater wounding (MMII) instead of wounding on all your weapons, the damage goes back up to 198 - 2 points short! *arg!* (it also gets real expensive as greater wounding is a +4 modifier)
*shrug* i suppose you can always just be polymorph into a giant, and then use girallon's blessing, and get the eight arms to do the original 200 points.


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## RigaMortus (May 9, 2003)

I'd like to submit 2 feats to the Iaijutsu Smackdown, both come from the "Races of Faerun" book.

Low Blow & Improved Low Blow...

Without typing these feats out word for word, the gist of it is...

With Low Blow you can enter an opponent's square, as long as that opponent is one size category larger than you.  You can make a single melee attack against the opponent who is FLAT-FOOTED to you for this attack.  After the attack, you return to your original 5' square.  This attack provokes an AoO, which can be negated with Improved Low Blow.  It is also a Full Round Action to do.

You also need Dodge, Mobility and at least a +4 BAB for the Low Blow prereq.  It also helps to play a Small Race.  And Low Blow also counts as a Fighter Bonus Feat.




			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Iaijutsu Smackdown
> Originally posted by Furious Puffin
> 
> Hopefully this will work, as Enboards is acting kinda weird, saying that my I.P address was banned and then displaying it - as full stop.
> ...


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## thegreatbuddha (May 26, 2003)

Good job on the Iaijutsu smack.  I never read it close enough to see that it was possible to pull off more than once per combat.

Only problem is that you can only gain one attack from Expert Tactician per round.  So you're losing 2 attacks and 261 points of damage.  This puts you at about 1949 IIRC, which is still frickin respectable


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## Hypersmurf (May 26, 2003)

> *Only problem is that you can only gain one attack from Expert Tactician per round.*




The Song and Silence FAQ states otherwise, but that whole question is horribly answered, and should be ignored.

-Hyp.


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## Bodah (May 27, 2003)

I have a question about the leadership smackdown..

How is it that you are able to the leadership feat multiple times? I mean is there some rule somewhere that states you can take the feat as many times as you want or what?

edit: side question thats semi-related to this. How the heck do you determine cohort level? I've been looking at some of the examples and I have no idea how they come up with these levels for the cohorts in the examples.


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## Burne (May 27, 2003)

Pg 2. Leadership Smack writer.

While I can't justify rules-wise that you can take leadership more than once, the topic has come up on the boards more than once, (and perhaps in a semi-offical sage ruling) that "sure, why the heck not!".

As for how I generated the levels, cohorts earn a 1/2 share of any XP earned, so if a 4 person party with 1 cohort earns 4500 Xp, each party member gets 1000xp, and the  cohort earns 500xp.  I just sat down and figured out how much xp each cohort would recieve as its leader gained levels.  I did this one level at a time as I was handling so many Cohorts at once, but for a single cohort.  Cohort Starting Lvl's base XP + (PC's current Xp total - PC's Xp total when cohort was gained )/2. Will give you the correct answer.  That is why early cohortsfall behind, and new cohorts are better.   New cohort's come in at a level determined by your leadership score, old ones don't.

As I side note, if you actually made the leadership smack guy at the top end you and your cohorts would be consuming a 5.5 share of the Xp earned. That means more that twice as much XP must be earned to generate that same person Xp split. Example, 4 person party plus 9 cohorts earns 9500 xp, that number is divided by 9.5 with each PC receiving 1000cp and each cohort receiving 500Xp.


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## Bodah (May 27, 2003)

> While I can't justify rules-wise that you can take leadership more than once, the topic has come up on the boards more than once, (and perhaps in a semi-offical sage ruling) that "sure, why the heck not!".




Ah ok.

About the cohort level thing, I should clarify that I was curious about the starting cohort level as given by the examples in the DMG. Not your cohort levels. For example the DMG lists a Unicorn as an 8th level equivalent character. How do they determine what level the creature is equivalent to?


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## Hypersmurf (May 27, 2003)

> *For example the DMG lists a Unicorn as an 8th level equivalent character. How do they determine what level the creature is equivalent to? *




These days, just use their ECL from Savage Species...

-Hyp.


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## Magic Rub (May 28, 2003)

Surefoot said:
			
		

> *I know of a baddie who can take infinite damage without dieing.
> 
> It must be a cleric, who casted
> a) favor of illmatar
> ...




It works for good guys just as well as baddies.

It's a really simple build as well. All you need is a barebones  9th level cleric (meaning no fancey feat chains, skills, PrC's) with the ability to cast 6th level spells.


Then...

Cast - Energy Immunity twice - (Fire & acid) - 6th lvl spell
_Or any other Elemental resistance type spell, so long as it covers acid & fire_
Cast - Favor of (insert name of god here) - 4th lvl spell 
Cast - Monstrous Regeneration - 6th lvl spell

Taa daa! you are now immune to all HP damage for XXXXXX (depending on misc. factors, ie; Level, Extend Spell) rounds.

Then Spice up the character in any other ways you'd like.


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## The_Furious_Puffin (May 29, 2003)

RigaMortus said:
			
		

> *I'd like to submit 2 feats to the Iaijutsu Smackdown, both come from the "Races of Faerun" book.
> 
> Low Blow & Improved Low Blow...
> 
> ...




Actually, that enitre spack needs a re-work - for starters I could add that multiple arms skill for some extra attacks, lots off odds and sods to do! But I no longer have the OA books, so I'm stuffed for that 

Your welcome to do it though 

The Furious Puffin!


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 5, 2003)

Anyone added the A&EG _Fierce_ weapon special ability to an Archer smack yet?

-Hyp.


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## orbitalfreak (Jun 5, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> *Anyone added the A&EG Fierce weapon special ability to an Archer smack yet?
> 
> -Hyp. *




What does _Fierce_ do?


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 5, 2003)

> *What does Fierce do? *




It lets you trade off Dex-bonus-to-AC for damage, point for point.  You set the number at the start of the round.

So if you're a twinked archer with a +9 Dex bonus and a Fierce bow, you can voluntarily lower your Dex bonus to AC to, say, +1, and get +8 damage on every attack with the bow that round...

-Hyp.


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## Tidus4444 (Jun 5, 2003)

Has anybody considered taking a single level of Wiz/ Sorc and then buying a wand/ scroll of Tenser's TRansformation?  Assuming Caster level 11, that'd give you +5 BAB, giving you an extra attack.  Plus all those Dex and Str bonuses...


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## gtJormungand (Jun 6, 2003)

Tidus4444 said:
			
		

> *Has anybody considered taking a single level of Wiz/ Sorc and then buying a wand/ scroll of Tenser's TRansformation?  Assuming Caster level 11, that'd give you +5 BAB, giving you an extra attack.  Plus all those Dex and Str bonuses... *




The wand won't work because you can only put up to 4th level spells in to wands.  A scroll or staff could work, though.


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## thegreatbuddha (Jun 18, 2003)

*Ukiyo Smackdown*

This was inspired by Ukiyo from Samurai Showdown.  one of his special attacks involved tossing an apple into the air and then slicing it repetedly with a rapid series of sword strokes.

The stats

Half-Orc Fighter4 Monk1 Psychic Warrior 1 Psion (Egoist)10

S 39 (18 +2 racial +4 level +4 unnamed +6 enhancement +5 inherent)
D 13
C 10
I  13
W 8
C  7

Relevant Skills: None

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Expertise, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack (Drop monk stunning ability for power attack, per OA), Cleave, Great Cleave, Reckless Attack, Two-Handed Power Strike (Quint Fighter), Leadership

Equipment: Flaming Frost Impact Shock Spell-Storing (Inflict Serious Wounds) Greatsword+5 (200,000gp)
Belt of Giant Strength+6 (36,000gp)
2 Arms of Nyr (24,000gp)
Monk's Belt (9,000gp)

1 Bag containing 100 toads (priceless)

Required Psionic Powers: Psychofeedback

Tactics: 

Surprise Round:  Haste yourself with the Monk's Belt, and manifest Psychofeedback.  Have your cohort (type or level is irrelevant) move next to your foe.

Round 1: With your partial action from haste, close for combat with your foe.  Your cohort should have readied an action to toss the bag of toads into the air as soon as you reached melee range.  Now for the fun part.  As a free action, burn every power point you have (94) to gain an additional +47 to your Strength modifier.  Now, use the full attack option for a perfectly timed WW attack.  With a total of 100 toads within melee range, each being droppable by a single blow, you'll be able to horribly abuse Great Cleave to gain a total of 101 attacks against your true target.

Let's tally the damage, shall we?

Assuming: Full Power Attack (+14/hit)
Full Reckless Attack (+14/hit)
Two-Handed Power Strike (doubles strength modifier with a two handed weapon)
Total ability strength modifier +81

Damage per hit: 2d6+1d6+1d6+1d6+197, for an average of 214.5 points of damage per hit.  At 101 strikes in a round, this adds up to a total of 21664.5 points of damage.  It gets worse though.  On the final strike, go ahead and use the Inflict Serious Wounds stored in your sword to deliver an additional 3d8+5 (17.5) points of damage.

Grand Total: 21682

Factoring in a 10% crit rate, we end up with an average of 23722 points of damage.

For added effect, wear a dogo to the fight and dye your hair blue.


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## Impeesa (Jun 18, 2003)

Hm... never seen someone try the infamous Bag of Rats trick with a bag of frogs..  That one's extremely well known over at the WotC boards, to the point where invoking the name Bag of Rats is basically synonymous with any accusation of abuseable rules.  Still, 23722 is pretty impressive. 

--Impeesa--


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## LokiDR (Jun 18, 2003)

Due to the Auto Miss rule though, you won't be able hit every toad.  Just a nitpick.


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## Burne (Jun 18, 2003)

Around these parts in is known as the Bag of Snails cheese. But hey its still mighty good.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 18, 2003)

Hrm, I thought it was a blind kobold/bucket of snails, must be just me.


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## thegreatbuddha (Jun 19, 2003)

My apologies.  i didn't realize this one had been done before  

Just an FYI, but I chose toads because you can fit 100 toads in a 5ft square, as opposed to 25 rats.  That's a potential total of 701 hits against one's opponent, as opposed to the mere 176 hits with a bag of rats.


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## gorath (Jul 19, 2003)

*D&D 3.5*

Hi, will there be a new Smack thread for 3.5? Would like to see the new possibilities...


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## CyberSpyder (Jul 23, 2003)

Well, here's the first 3.5 smack, one I'm actually planning to use.

Unfortunately, it's a Diplomatic Smackdown, and so doesn't strictly fit the rules of the thread.  Here it is, in any event:

Race:  Half-elf
Starting Charisma of 18 (Minimum required)
All four ability increases into Charisma
+4 inherent bonus (110,000 GP) for 26 base charisma
+6 Cloak of Charisma (36,000 GP)
+10 Ring of Diplomacy (Or whatever other item slot you want) (10,000 GP)

Feats:
Negotiator
Skill Focus (Diplomacy)

Skills:
5 ranks in Bluff
5 ranks in Sense Motive
5 ranks in Knowledge (Nobility)
19 ranks in Diplomacy

Total Skill:
19 ranks
+2 synergy (bluff)
+2 synergy (sense motive)
+2 synergy (knowledge)
+3 skill focus
+2 negotiator
+10 ring
+2 half-elf
+3 cloak
+8 charisma
=53 total skill

If you take the full minute for a skill check, you cannot fail to change hostile to helpful.

If used as a full-round action (e.g., in combat), at a -10 penalty hostile is converted to helpful on 7 and above; below 7, they're merely made friendly.

Best combined with the 'tongues' spell or just a bunch of languages - if your enemy can understand a language, you can turn them into your friend.


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## Jeremy (Aug 26, 2003)

Heh.  The diplomancer at it's best.  

Oh, and BUMP.  For the new crowd as well as for more 3.5 smacks or new 3.0 smacks.

Cheers!


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## Jeremy (Aug 26, 2003)

youspoonybard said:
			
		

> *Ok.
> 
> I'm gonna post this here, can you guys find anything wrong with it?
> 
> ...




Constrict damage is applied a few too many times, but the idea is still sound.    Maybe dire ape would work better for smackdowns.  Here's another idea.



			
				Jhyrryl said:
			
		

> *Sor 1/Rog 9 using a wand of scorching ray at 11th caster level (market price 16,500gp).
> 
> Against foes who are denied their Dex bonus against his attacks (probably because he's greatly invisible or blinking), he'll be making 3 ranged touch attacks each round, at his highest rate of attack, for 9d6 fire damage each (27d6 for the round).  Each one that crits adds another 4d6 damage, so maybe it's worth taking Improved Critical (ray) at 12th-level. *




Another good idea, and as suggested could have arcane trickster levels added to it.  Of course like the T&B orb spells the sneak attack should only apply to the first ray, so there may be other rays that would work better.  But you gotta love touch attack sneak attacks.  You catch the guy flatfooted against his touch AC, that doesn't leave very much.  

These are just some things we've seen around the boards.  Who's got some full on, stat'd up, equipment optimized SMACKDOWNS?


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## Greybar (Aug 26, 2003)

> Sor 1/Rog 9 using a wand of scorching ray at 11th caster level (market price 16,500gp).
> ...
> he'll be making 3 ranged touch attacks each round...




How do you figure that?  Using a wand is a standard action (per SRD), not an attack action.

john


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## Jeremy (Aug 26, 2003)

Because that particular spell fires 3 times, thus making it great for the intended purpose.  But as with anything that is multiple attacks in a single action it will probably be ruled to sneak attack only on the first of them.  But it's still respectable damage, and with trickster levels it'll likely improve.


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## Jeremy (Aug 29, 2003)

Ker bump!


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## Creamsteak (Sep 2, 2003)

I'm curious if you take over the top 1st level submissions. I found a really quirky way to use a Psychic Warrior to get Mind Blast 3/day at 1st level... which is unique, even if not very 'smackish'... It's way more powerful in 3.5 (using 3.0 psionics) where the sleep spell (comparable) is nerfed.


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## Jeremy (Sep 2, 2003)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> I'm curious if you take over the top 1st level submissions. I found a really quirky way to use a Psychic Warrior to get Mind Blast 3/day at 1st level... which is unique, even if not very 'smackish'... It's way more powerful in 3.5 (using 3.0 psionics) where the sleep spell (comparable) is nerfed.



 27 PP at 1st level?  That'd be a trick.  Especially for a psychic warrior.  Unless of course that's the one where you make yourself a vegetable to do it.  

But yeah.  We'll take all your fiendish creativity.


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## Darklone (Sep 24, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Because that particular spell fires 3 times, thus making it great for the intended purpose.  But as with anything that is multiple attacks in a single action it will probably be ruled to sneak attack only on the first of them.  But it's still respectable damage, and with trickster levels it'll likely improve.



 I pretty positive that you get sneak attack damage to each attack... it's not like Manyshot where you only roll once for all shots.


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## youspoonybard (Sep 25, 2003)

Jeremy -

Is my snake-Druid making too many constricts?  If so, can you point me to something that would indicate that?

While it would be cool to actually make a smack-thingy, I'm really just trying to get these rules down...and while people have shown contempt at me for indicating that people trying to get free would be hurt, this build doesn't require that at all...

So if I am taking too many constricts, is there a nice grapple-example/etc that I can look at to see what I'm doing wrong?

Thank you.

*edit* - why did I think your name was Jester?


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## Saeviomagy (Sep 26, 2003)

Ok, this is a smackdown involving that sweetness of sweetnesses, the war hulk.

Since I'm not sure what the smackdown rules actually are (they're not at the head of this thread for instance), forgive me for transgressions. One I'm not sure of is that although this character only has 16 hit dice, the +2 LA makes him a level 18 build... which might be against this thread's rules, right?

Additionally, I let the centaur pick up the mounted combat feats (specifically spirited charge) without the ride skill, or mounted combat. Which is probably a bit iffy. The alternative is to do this with an ogre (same HD, more strength, more reach, so a 20ft radius, less dex, less BAB) mounted on something huge (like an elephant).

Here goes.
Start with a Centaur (4HD, 2LA)

Large size.-1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.

Space/Reach: 10 feet/5 feet.

Racial Hit Dice: A centaur begins with four levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +4, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +4, and Will +4.

Racial Feats: A centaur’s monstrous humanoid levels give it two feats.

+3 natural armor bonus.

Special: Centaur's count as mounted for the purpose of using a lance

Stats
S 	+8 	15	23
D 	+4	12	16 
C 	+4	14	18
I 	-2	13	12
W 	+2	8	10
C 		10	10

Feats Power Attack, Cleave

Fighter 1
Feat Improved Bull Rush

War Hulk
1st	+0	+2	+0	+0	No time to think, ability boost (Str +2), Awesome Blow

Fighter 2 Feat: Ride-by attack

War Hulk
2nd	+0	+3	+0	+0	Great swing, ability boost (Str +2), +1 Str
3rd	+0	+3	+1	+1	Mighty rock throwing, ability boost (Str +2), Combat Reflexes
4th	+0	+4	+1	+1	Mighty swing, ability boost (Str +2)
5th	+0	+4	+1	+1	Ability boost (Str +2)
6th	+0	+5	+2	+2	Sweeping boulder, ability boost (Str +2), +1 Strength, Improved Overrun
7th	+0	+5	+2	+2	Ability boost (Str +2)
8th	+0	+6	+2	+2	Massive sweeping boulder, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2)
9th	+0	+6	+3	+3	Ability boost (Str +2), Toughness, Spirited Charge
10th	+0	+7	+3	+3	Massive swing, Toughness, ability boost (Str +2), +1 Strength

Final - important stats
Strength 46 (+18 to hit and damage)
Con 18 (+4 hp/level)
BAB: +6/+1 (two attacks)
Attack bonus with a lance (+23/+18)
Hp: 3d8 + 2d10 + 10d12 + 72 + 9 (163)

Damage with a lance (1d8+27)
On a charge = 3d8+78

Charges, Uses Massive swing to attack all within 10 feet for 3d8+78 damage. Uses Awesome blow to knock them all back 10 feet, and down to the ground (after all, who can make a dc 70-odd reflex save?), rendering himself immune to retaliatory attacks as creatures would have to stand up (move), then move to him (another move) and are then out of actions. Same thing is done to anyone who charges (using combat reflexes). Next round is another charge.


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## Hypersmurf (Sep 26, 2003)

Saeviomagy said:
			
		

> Additionally, I let the centaur pick up the mounted combat feats (specifically spirited charge) without the ride skill, or mounted combat. Which is probably a bit iffy.




While I don't have the book, I think it's Races of Faerun that states exactly that - Ride and Mounted Combat are not required for a centaur.

-Hyp.


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## Derulbaskul (Sep 26, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> While I don't have the book, I think it's Races of Faerun that states exactly that - Ride and Mounted Combat are not required for a centaur. -Hyp.




Yep, plus the earlier precedent established by the armanite in the Manual of the Planes. I was DMing an Oathbound campaign a while back and one of the PCs was a centaur using the Savage Species rules... unbelievable.

Cheers
D


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## jabberwocky (Oct 1, 2003)

Ok, so this is a 3.5 arcane trickster sneak attack smackdown.  I wanted to make an assassin type character who isn't reliant on anyone else for his combos, and can pull off the attack once a day without using any consumable resources (no potions/scrolls/etc.)  This is also similar to a couple of existing smacks, but I wanted to update it to 3.5 using almost all SRD material (the polymorph form is from the MM2).  This isn't as impressive damage wise as some of the smacks I've seen, but does break the smackdown barrier.  I plan on using him as an NPC assassin if a player manages to really piss off someone who could afford this guy.

So, the character:
Tiefling Rogue 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 7 (ECL 16) (28pt buy)
(notes: Tiefling is important to get the outsider type, so that you can use polymorph to assume other outsider forms.)

Str 10
Dex 14 +2 racial +1 inherent +1 level = 18
Con 15 +1 level = 16
Int 15+2 racial+1 level+6 enhancement = 24
Wis 10
Cha 10 - 2 racial = 8
Average HP: 88
Spells/day:  6/6/6/5/4/4/3
Sneak Attack: 5d6
Feats: Two weapon fighting, Improved two weapon fighting, Quick draw, any three you want to round out the character
Saves: Fort +13/Ref +19/Will +15
Skills: 140 points 

Equipment
2 +1 short swords of Spell Storing (16,620 gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +3 (18,000gp)
Headband of Intellect +4 (16,000gp)
Tome of Quickness of Action +1 (27,500gp)
Boots of Speed (12,000 gp)
Pale Green Ioun Stone (30,000 gp) (+1 competence attacks/save/skills/ability checks)
Ring of Protection +3 (18,000 gp)
Rod of Quickening (75,500 gp)
Cloak of Resistance +4 (16,000)
Total: 229,620 gp

Previous Preparation
Greater Magic Weapon on both short swords
Mage Armor on self
Contingent Polymorph:Kelvezu with the casting of Transformation as the trigger.
Nondetection

Surprise Round:
Cast Greater Invisibility
Cast quickened Disintegrate - ranged touch +11 24d6+5d6 sneak attack (Avg 101.5)

Next Round:
Activate Boots of Speed - Free Action
Cast quickened Transformation - Free Action
Contingent Polymorph:Kelvezu (Assassin Demons from MM2) goes off - Free Action
Drop Rod of Quickening - Free Action

New Stats
Str: 24 Dex 36 Con: 20
Average HP: 118
AC: 10, +18 Natural, +13 Dex, +3 Deflection, +4 Armor, +1 Haste = 49
Saves: Fort +15/Ref +28/Will +15
Sneak Attack: 13d6
Attack Bonus: BAB +15, Dex +13, Two Weapon -2, Haste +1, Enhancement +3, Competence +1 = +31
Full Attack : +31/+31/+31/+26/+26/+21
+31  1d6+10+13d6+6d6(vampiric touch) 
+31  1d6+6+13d6+6d6(vampiric touch) 
+31  1d6+10+13d6
+26  1d6+10+13d6
+26  1d6+6+13d6
+21  1d6+10+13d6

If everything hits, thats 96d6+52, or an average of 388 damage, with an average of 21 temporary hit points gained (assuming temp hit points dont stack).  Maximum damage is 628.

After the first round, provided he can keep up sneak attacks (probably by invisibility) the damage drops to 84d6+26, or an average of 310 damage a round.  Even if he only hits with his primary three attacks, thats 215 damage in the first round, dropping to 173 per round afterwards.  And he can keep this up for ten rounds.

Depending on how the Kelvezu poison ability works on their weapons (whether or not it happens automatically), there's also a DC 22 Fort save for 1d6 con damage with each hit.  Also depending on how the ruling goes on the gaining subtype clause of polymorph, you may get immunity to poison and electricity, acid/cold/fire resistance 10, and telepathy.

The character is somewhat weak on hit points, but has a great AC and decent saves, plus full concealment. He's also used a large portion of his spell power to pull this off, but still has all his 5th level spells, and a decent selection of lower level spells to use.  If you want to do more damage, you can swap out the ioun stone and get the wounding ability added to each short sword for an additional possible six Constitution damage each round (this makes total equipment cost 247,620). 

This strategy is totally useless against creatures immune to sneak attack, in which case he's better off throwing blasting spells - scorching ray, cone of cold, etc.  The rod of quickening helps him in a spell assault as well, though he probably won't break the smack barrier.  But with sufficient information (which he should be able to get through divinations), he can tailor his assault to his target.

Hope you all like it!  And if anyone has suggestions on how to improve the character, or sees mistakes I made, let me know!

_edit: changed wizard 3 to 5, and Arcane Trickster to 7, as it was pointed out that I made a really stupid mistake.   Fixed Sneak Attack and final damage outputs._


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## Zaruthustran (Oct 1, 2003)

jabberwocky said:
			
		

> So, the character:
> Tiefling Rogue 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 9 (ECL 16) (28pt buy)




Arcane Trickster has as a requirement "Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 3rd level or higher." Wizard 3 cannot cast 3rd level arcane spells, and so cannot become an Arcane Trickster. You need Wizard 5.

Cool build though. Sounds nasty.

-z


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## jabberwocky (Oct 1, 2003)

Zaruthustran said:
			
		

> Arcane Trickster has as a requirement "Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 3rd level or higher." Wizard 3 cannot cast 3rd level arcane spells, and so cannot become an Arcane Trickster. You need Wizard 5.
> -z





Thanks for pointing that out - I can't believe I missed that. Must have been caffeine deprived (or just stupid).  Anyways, the character is all fixed up now.


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## Xavim (Oct 2, 2003)

*Arrowed*

Been loving this Thread so I thought I'd respond with one of my own.
My personal favorite Smackdown.
Requirements: PHB
any spellcaster with Telekinesis.
1 Wagon of 10' cubed dimensions.  (Pretty average for a wagon really)

Now, all you need to do is fill the wagon with arrows.
The telekinesis spell description states that a caster can throw multiple objects weighing up to 25lbs/caster level.  At the minimum caster level this allows a wizard to violently thrust 1500 arrows at their opponents.  (3lbs for 20 arrows according to the PHB)

Now since they deal weapon damage let's use shortbow damage of 1d6 that amounts to an earth shattering 1500-9000 damage in a single round.  And due to a natural roll of 20 automatically hitting, that results in 75-450 damage regardless of AC.

and all of this done by a lvl 9 character.
The only way around this is damage reduction, but it still remains the best anti giant/army tool I've seen yet.

<edit> To bypass damage reduction simply light them all on fire first and deal 1500 fire damage instead   

You could always invest a lot of time and money into making 112 daggers +5 for an attack that deals 672- 1008 damage against pretty well anything.


Enjoy!


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## reapersaurus (Oct 2, 2003)

[hardcore] Oh....   GOD. 

Xavim - As soon as I saw your handle as the last post in this thread, and after seeing your absurd Telekenisis post, I put the 2 together, but I thought you'd have read that thread's replies which explain exactly why your "creative original trick" doesn't work (never worked) before posting here.

I think we should have a pre-requisite for posting in the Sultans of Smack thread, Jeremy, to prevent posts like this from cluttering up the archive. [/hardcore]

edit: ahh..  I see that you posted this before you posted your other thread: http://enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65272
So it's not QUITE as bad as it looks.
Still, Xavim - make sure you at least read the description of the spell before you post to THE Smackdown thread.


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## Xavim (Oct 2, 2003)

I DID read the description.
3.0 doesn't say anything about #of objects.


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## Jeremy (Oct 2, 2003)

Reaper - Nah, no prereq for posting here, though there's no guarantee besides creative entertaining originality that a submission will stay in the archive.  

Besides, the Telekinesis Smack has been posted in all 3 incarnations of this thread, I just haven't included it anytime a new thread had to be opened.  It's been posted too many times.    Apparently one that has come up enough times and caused enough grief that is was specifically limited in the 3.5 revision.  

No worries, Xavim.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Oct 2, 2003)

CyberSpyder said:
			
		

> Well, here's the first 3.5 smack, one I'm actually planning to use.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's a Diplomatic Smackdown, and so doesn't strictly fit the rules of the thread.  Here it is, in any event:
> 
> ...





Add in one level of the Mindbender PrC (if allowed in 3.5) and a ring of invisibility. The enemy doesn't know that you're physically present, and you can talk to any creature within 100ft. that has a language.


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 10, 2003)

*this is only a test*

Ignore this.  it's just a test post to make sure I can post to this thread.  i wrote up a 1900 point Singh smack last night and it failed to post three times.


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## "Jack" Reapersaurus (Oct 10, 2003)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> i wrote up a 1900 point Singh smack last night



been there, done that, got the shirt.
But I'd love to see yours - hope you post it.


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 10, 2003)

I seem to have lost the smack as of right now, but the short version is a Singh rager with maxed out strength and charisma who gets to add his strength mod to attacks 3 times and his charisma mod twice, charging from horseback (with Spirited Charge) and Rhino hide Armor while using the TWF style.

Total damage was 1908 IIRC.

I'll try and reconstruct it and post tomorrow.


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## reapersaurus (Oct 10, 2003)

That's very similar to my Singh-Charging build, except from horseback.

IIRC, that build you described wouldn't work - you cannot do a full attack from horseback, unless you have some other PrC in there to allow you to. (I'll leave it as an exercise to find which ones...) 

I have 3 builds of the Singh-Shield-Charger, depending on what sources are allowed, that range from 9th to 16th level, doing between 200 and 7731 damage in one round.


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 11, 2003)

Why can't the Singh Rager charge from horseback.  AFAIK, the ability says the Singh Rager may use the full-attack option when charging.  Not "when charging on foot" or "only if not mounted and charging."  I just wish there was a way to get Iaijutsu damage from a lance


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## Toras (Oct 14, 2003)

For those who are interested.  We have found a way to beat the unkillable NPC

Wizard: Flesh to Stone (Held in Status)
Cleric: Legend Lore stone npc (reveal location of body)
Party Buffed with Deathward and Holy Aura pops in. Wizard then casts antimagic field and we all crowd around him.  We then go to kill NPC.

This has worked for us.


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## reapersaurus (Oct 14, 2003)

Toras said:
			
		

> For those who are interested.  We have found a way to beat the unkillable NPC
> 
> Wizard: Flesh to Stone (Held in Status)
> Cleric: Legend Lore stone npc (reveal location of body)
> ...



umm... this is one of the more baffling and mind-bending posts I've ever seen.
Can anyone translate this for me?  

greatbuddha - in the 3.0 PHB, Mounted Combat section is says "If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a partial melee attack."
There's nothing in the Singh Rager that contradicts/trumps this.
Lion's Charge only says "while charging", not "while charging from horseback", therefore it doesn't allow it.
Look at the Cavalier PrC from S&F, where it specifically provides the "charging from horseback" ability.


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## LazarusLong42 (Oct 15, 2003)

CyberSpyder said:
			
		

> Well, here's the first 3.5 smack, one I'm actually planning to use.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's a Diplomatic Smackdown, and so doesn't strictly fit the rules of the thread.  Here it is, in any event:
> 
> ...




Even better also combined with 16 levels of Bard and the spell _improvisation_ from Song and Silence.  Cast _tongues_ on round one, cast _improvisation_ on round two, use the entire bonus to add +32 to your diplomacy skill roll on round three, i.e. +85 total.

With which you could probably convince a red dragon to light your campfire for you.


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 15, 2003)

> greatbuddha - in the 3.0 PHB, Mounted Combat section is says "If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a partial melee attack."




I could argue against that as poor wording on the author's part, since the reasoning is that you must wait for the mount to close before attacking.  Following that line of reasoning, the Lion's Charge ability is trumped by the logical assumption that one can only EVER make a partial attack at the end of a charge, since you must wait to close with your enemy.  From the PHB on charging in general



> Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.




Following your line of reasoning, Lion's Charge can't, by the rules, grant you the ability to make multiple attacks at the end of a charge.  Better rework all those Singh Smacks....




> Lion's Charge only says "while charging", not "while charging from horseback", therefore it doesn't allow it.





By the same line of reasoning, you can't charge while on foot, since the ability description only says "while charging," and not "while charging on foot."[/QUOTE]




> Look at the Cavalier PrC from S&F, where it specifically provides the "charging from horseback" ability.




Good point.  Remember that you brought that up, not me, since in that case they call out the limitation, whereas no such limitation is imposed on the Lion's Charge ability.


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 15, 2003)

Human Psion (Egoist)4/Metamind8/Singh Rager4

S 36 (18base +4arms of nyr +4animal affinity +4level +6enhancement)
D32 (18 base +4arms of nyr +4animal affinity +6enhancement)

Feats: Inner Strength, Iron Will, Ki Shout, Power Attack, Reckless Attack, Power Lunge, Extend Power

Equipment: 2 Arms of Nyr, Belt of Strength+6, Gloves of Dexterity+6, Ring of Spell Storing (Quickened Righteous Might), Ring of Spell Storing (Quickened Divine power), Potion of Haste, Rhino Hide Armor, Sandals of the Tiger

Necessary Powers: Psychofeedback, Claws of the Bear, Animal Affinity

At the beginning of the day, manifest an extended animal affinity (strength) and an extended Claws of the Bear from your crystal capacitator.

Surprise Round: Drink your potion of Haste and use the bonus partial to manifest Psychofeedback.  Cast a Quickened Divine Power

Round 1: Declare TWF, a full Power Attack, and a full Reckless Attack.  Cast a quickened Righteous Might.  Enter your Lion's Fury. Burn all of your Power Points for the day for an additional 45 points of strength modifier.  Your new Strength mod is +62.   Charge.

You'll get a total of 6 attacks, 5 of which are part of a charge.  Your total attack bonus for the round is 
+60/60/56/55/50/45

The four primary hand attacks that are part of the charge deal out 1d12+218 points of damage.  the offhand attack deals 1d12+187 points of damage.  That's a total of 5d12+1059, which is tripled due to the Rhino hide and Sandals of the Tiger.  Adding in the 1d12+94 from the extra attack from haste, we end up with a grand total of 16d12+3271.  With average damage rolls and no crits, that's an average of 3375 points of damage


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## Jeremy (Oct 15, 2003)

Very creative.    That's a fun arena play smack.  Though allowing a human to use 4 arms of Nyr is probably asking a lot of any even moderately insane DM.  And psychofeedback is a 4th level power meaning that unless your DM allows your Metamind levels to grant +1 Manifester level, it's not going to be available.

The +4's from animal affinity suggest 3.5, but then the duration wouldn't last.  I have no idea how the character casts the quickened divine power.  That's an 8th level cleric spell...

I love psychofeedback, it's so irrevocably broken.


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## Hypersmurf (Oct 15, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Though allowing a human to use 4 arms of Nyr is probably asking a lot of any even moderately insane DM.




Uh, check again - that should be read as "+4 (Arms of Nyr)", not "plus four Arms of Nyr"... as in a +2 unnamed bonus from each of the two arms.

-Hyp.


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## Jeremy (Oct 15, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Uh, check again - that should be read as "+4 (Arms of Nyr)", not "plus four Arms of Nyr"... as in a +2 unnamed bonus from each of the two arms.
> 
> -Hyp.



Ah.  Trick of the eye.


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## reapersaurus (Oct 16, 2003)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> Human Psion (Egoist)4/Metamind8/Singh Rager4
> 
> The four primary hand attacks that are part of the charge deal out 1d12+218 points of damage.



Well, in the attempt to help hone this smack, I have some questions of clarification about this one. (Seldom do I see feedback on Smacks, and the poster just has to assume everything's fine with it, or fear no interest in it).

Could you stat out how he's doing +218 damage?
I see 1d12 + 62? (STR modifier?) + 16 full PA + 16 Reckless Attack, +? Power Lunge but whoa hold on - let me check a couple other things.

(BTW: I don't know psionics very well, please anyone correct me where I miss some  in this critique)

* STR score: start with your 36 and add +8 size bonus from Righteous Might (a 9th level cleric spell that will have to be obtained/purchased somehow) + 4 Lion's Fury + 45 as you say from 90 power points? = 93 STR = *a +41 modifier*
* POwer Points: I see 7 from Psion 4, 60 from Metamind 8, 19 from STR, 1 from Inner Strength = 87 power points, but I'm probably wrong there.
* Quickened Righteous Might and Divine Power are 8th and 9th level spells needed.
* How are you manifesting a 4th level power? (Psychofeedback)
* I feel it important to point out that this (and all Psychofeedback-based Smacks) are only one-shot Smacks. All it takes is one effect to stop this entire Smack. A readied Teleport or Dimension Door, a Contingency, or a Fortunate Fate.
*  Power Lunge will give up an AoO, unless the target doesn't have a Reach of 10'.
* You are including a D20 source in Reckless Attack. It is an overpowered, and I'd guess an unaccepted feat to most games. I love using it.  (It will make the AoO almost an auto-hit, though  )

Back to the damage:
I see 1d12 + 41 STR + 41 Power Lunge + 16 PA + 16 Reckless Attack = 1d12+114 (avg 120.5)
Off-Hand: 1d12 + 72 (avg 78.5)

Total damage = 1681 avg after tripling (edit + the haste attack : 1d12+63?)


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 16, 2003)

It's 2 Arms of Nyr, for a total of +4.  

I used the Alternate Metamind from Monte Cook's website (the original Metamind was written before anyone had thought of PrCs adding caster/manifester levels.  The alternate grants a total of +6 Manifester levels at 8th level.

He casts the Quickened Divine power via a Ring of Spell Storing.  Same goes for the Quickened Righteous Might.

If there's a problem with the +4 from Animal Affinity, toss in a few power stones encoded with Extended Empowered Animal Affinity.

Reaper: Psychofeedback adds to your strength *modifier*, not your strength score.  So I add +45 to my actual strength modifier.  

Did you figure bonus PP based on a 32 or 36 strength?  it should be 36, since the Animal Affinity lasts more than 24 hours.

Please stop calling out ways to stop my smacks.  it's annoying and I am perceiving it as an attack.  I believe the general rule of thumb is that smackdowns *assume favorable conditions*, so my opponent wouldn't have 10ft reach, or Fortunate Fate, or any of the other things you mentioned.

As for the +218 damage....   +62 strength +16 PA +16 RA + 124 Power Lunge = 218.


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## Elric (Oct 16, 2003)

Reaper, I will mention that I think that you are making this thread much less fun than it should be.  I feel that you have too much invested in ensuring that you have the ultimate smack and thus you criticize everyone else’s attempts.  There is no prerequisite to posting here or a “hardcore” mode.  Smackdowns are fun thought exercises that anyone can do.  

Thegreatbuddha- good smackdown.  I am sure that you can come up with even more ways to increase your strength score to ridiculous extremes to do even more damage (especially since it gives you lots of power points to work with for Psychofeedback).  Just borrowing from reaper’s Kord Incarnate Smack, +4 Greater Aspect of the Diety, +4 luck from Mantle of Egregious Might, +10 inherent from Primal Release.

As for the really cheap way to get an uber-smack in 3.0, it is actually rather easy: abuse the leadership feat with insane cohorts.  Specifically, a Wizard/Incantatrix/Spelldancer (enough Incantatrix levels to get Instant Metamagic at least 1/day and Improved Metamagic), Spelldancer 1 and maybe a level of something to obtain the Mysticism domain.  

Cast Eagle’s Splendor with as much metamagic as possible, extended to over 24 hours.  You can do a ton of metamagic thanks to incantatrix/spelldancer.  Using the new spell, which boosts your Cha and perform check (for spelldancer) and saves (for spelldancer), you can get an even more powerful spell boosting your Cha.  

Continue to do this for a couple of years, increasing the power of the spell by a couple of points each day.  Add the spell into an item with the Persistant ability or some such.  This only needs to be at caster level 3, spell level 2, since spelldancer doesn’t increase the actual level, as best I remember it, so the items will be very cheap.  

Use your uber Cha (now you have an item that lets you get it without going through a 10 year cycle) to cast the uberbuff spells for the other ability scores and anything else that you want, with as much metamagic as you want.  Play around with having 20,000 in every ability score.  Anyone want to check this loose logic?


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## reapersaurus (Oct 16, 2003)

Wait one second here.
Perception is reality, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't paint me as a threadcrapper without reading what I did.

I spent time and effort to point out possible problems with a Smack, and discuss its useability.
I didn't attack anyone.
I didn't take away anyone's fun.
I simply expended effort to try to help someone hone a Smack.
I don't know about anyone else that has ever done one, but it's seldom optimized the first time, and it always helps to have another pair of eyes checking the figures.
We're not perfect (at least I'm not).

While Smacks do assume favorable conditions, I don't think it's very constructive to ignore a smacks limitations. For example, buddha's Smack never mentions that it is only useable for 1 round, and that all of his psionic powers are spent after it.
If a reader didn't know all the rules involved, he wouldn't know that from buddha's post.
I don't think that helps people to understand, or evaluate, a Smack.

It's funny you mention adding other things to STR Smacks, because I was going to reply with this:
If I felt that 1 round Smacks were effective, than I'd re-write the Kord STR Smackdown to swap out Mighty Contender and put in Jeremy's patented SpellDancer uber-buff to get a huge enhancement to STR, then plop levels in a psionic class to get the 1-round PsychoFeedback boost, PLUS the Body Fuel cheese, sprinkle in Belsameth's Blessing to get +16 STR, work in an Anthropomorphic Giant Squid (+8 STR, 6 arms) with Girallon's Blessing (3 sets of arms more) and then Fuse Arms to get +20 to STR and place on top of the Kord Smack.
Depending on how cheesy the Spelldancer exploit would be (and how many Arms of Nyr might be exploited), I could easily see a STR well over 200.

For one round.

And there's more than that you can do.
I just think that there is so much material out there now, that unless there are some limits, it's patently absurd what you can make. It's hard to bother spending too much time on Smacks anymore.


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## reapersaurus (Oct 16, 2003)

Oh- hopefully you'll perceive this as a rules clarification to clean up a Smack, and not an attack:

By the accepted/established rules, Power Lunge wouldn't add 124 damage in this case, it would add 62 (which is a lot). (total STR bonus of x2)

Also, you are more aware than I am of Monte Cook's version of the Metamind, but the version I DL'd grants +6 levels of existing class (in this case Psion), so I think he'd have the Power Points of a 10th level psion, which is 43.
Also, if his STR is considered 36 for Power Points, that's 13 points, right?
So PP = 43 + 13 + 1 = 57
Burning them all into Psychofeedback would give a 28 STR modifier, which changes the calculations again.


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 17, 2003)

Power Lunge adds double your strength bonus, it does not double your strength bonus, so it would in fact add 124 (62*2=124).

Bonus Power Points from an ability score add up, so while the character does have 43 base PP, he gets something like 7+9+9+11+11+13 bonus power points over the course of his 10 effective manifester levels.


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## The Souljourner (Oct 17, 2003)

Power Lunge is not clearly written and has had several threads written about it already.  It could be construed to add double your strength bonus, or it could be construed to replace the usual strength bonus or it could be construed to do the usual multiplier routine which is to add 1 to the current multiplier.

Anyway.... I wanted to add.. I could have sworn I saw in an FAQ somewhere that the bonus from an arm of Nyr was an enhancement bonus.  Am I crazy?

One more thing... most of these smacks I see are using arguably (and sometimes not even arguably) broken non-core stuff, often 3.0 stuff.  I don't know about anyone else, but non-core 3.0 stuff is pretty far removed from my roleplaying reality.  I'd really be more interested in seeing 3.5 smacks, using only core material.  Is that interesting to anyone else?  I'm sure there must have been a thread at one point, but I guess I missed it.

3.5 makes it a lot more challenging in my opinion.... what fun is there in finding broken combos in 3.0 when they're so pervasive?  The mere fact that it is possible to do 3000+ damage in one round tells me it's too easy, plus I never know what half of the abilities are, since people start bringing in stuff from even non-wotc material.  

Heck, let me get in on this.... I have a feat called I Win.  Prerequisite: +1 BAB.  Benefit: the character with this feat does 100,000 damage per unarmed strike, but must give up all his attacks and all other benefits associated with the attack.

There, now I win (until someone makes Greater I Win, which does 200,000 damage).

-The Souljourner


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 19, 2003)

Power Lunge allows you "to inflict double your strength modifier *in addition to* the attack's damage."  The "in addition to" pretty much spells out that it is neither a replacement of your base strength modifier nor a case of multipliers.  This leaves us with one alternative -- it adds double your strength modifier to the attack's damage, which is exactly what the feat says it does.

Arms of Nyr are unnamed bonuses AFAIK.

The smackdown rules don't require everything to be WotC approved.

If you're not having fun reading the 3.0 smacks, stop reading the thread or start a 3.5 Smackdown thread.  For me, 3.0 is fine, since it wasn't broken to begin with (see Rule 0).

And lastly, your feat wouldn't actually accomplish anything, since the character must give up all of his attacks.  At 100,000 dmg per strike, and a total of 0 strikes per round, we come up with an average damage of 0.  (100,000*0=0)


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## Jeremy (Oct 19, 2003)

Both 3.5 and 3.0 smacks are encouraged here.  Both core and non-core.  Both WotC and third party (as long as the third party is named and it is some form of publication).

I'd prefer not to see any 3.5/3.0 hybrid smacks and with the first 3.5 expansions coming out soon, hopefully we'll be seeing some more 3.5 smackdowns once we have the tools.


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## reapersaurus (Oct 19, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Both WotC and third party (as long as the third party is named and it is some form of publication).



I think there should be some suggested limitations, because you know what kind of cheese there is out there, Jeremy.  

But barring barring, any Smack that includes non-WotC material should makes pains to point out the source, since non-WotC is kind of in "another arena" - not as accepted, or closely scrutinized as WotC products.

It's strange expecting Smack authors to exhibit restraint, but really, we kinda need to, since there are many by-the-book, unerrated truly broken things out there, that 'should' be plopped onto any Smack, if not.
(your Spelldancer cheese is the perfect example - it's completely legit, by the printed rules, and I don't even know of any quasi-official source that denies it)

greatbuddha - this is not a Rules debate thread.
It is irrelavant what you or I believe Power Lunge to be.
It is played in every official organization that I know of as 2X STR bonus.
If you want your Smacks to use unsupported rules to artificially inflate them, than I guess that's your prerogative, but I thought that good Smacks shared the charateristic of being solid, rules-wise, and yours has the potential to be a good Smack, if you clean it up a bit.


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## Saeviomagy (Oct 20, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> It is played in every official organization that I know of as 2X STR bonus.



2 x strength bonus WHAT?

GB says it's added to your damage (which already includes your strength bonus). I agree (given the wording of the feat).

Normal damage is weapon + strength modifier + other modifiers.

Double strength damage is... well... twice your strength bonus

adding the two together gives 
weapon+strength+other+2xstrength

Not really difficult.


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## thegreatbuddha (Oct 20, 2003)

reap: have you posted any of your Singh rager smacks?

I searched the thread for your 7k+ Singh smack and couldn't find it.  Is it in a different thread?  Could you post it here and/or provide a link please?


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> I think there should be some suggested limitations, because you know what kind of cheese there is out there, Jeremy.



As even the CEO of Smackdown Industry uses Swords and Sorcery products, and I'm so partial to Mongoose products, it would be against our interests to ban interesting material that can be utilized in creative ways.

People employing WotC only smacks are encouraged to play up the fact that they are as these are definately harder, but as long as it isn't a house ruled character and as long as it follows the latest errata and clarifications for which ever cited product is used----

Anything goes!  

However, if you post that Four Color To Fantasy super hero shield charging four armed homebrew cat race monstrosity here I'll knock you silly for scaring all the submissions away.    Though if you want to cook up a Belsmaeth's Blessed Polymorphed into a Firbolg giant, Primal Released, divine shield/sacred strike sheild charger here to show the people how it's done, we'd be honored.


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## The Souljourner (Oct 20, 2003)

What makes a shield charging four armed cat race any less ridiculous than most of the things posted in here?  I don't know what a Belsmaeth's Blessed is, nor what it means to be Primal Released with sacred strike... but I'm guessing it's no less unbalanced.

Here's the problem... these smacks have gone from "who can do the most damage" to "who can buy the most 3rd party books with poorly thought out abilities".  Mongoose has like a dozen books, Sword and Sorcery at least that many, and who knows how many other D20 books are out there?  While I think they are a great resource for campaigns, where a DM has final say about what is legal and what is not, in this kind of an environment, I think there has to be some kind of restriction.

-The Souljourner


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## CRGreathouse (Nov 10, 2003)

I have a small improvement on CyberSpyder's Diplomatic smackdown.

With the Book of Exalted Deeds, I can get higher than his +53 -- even without the custom +10 ring of Diplomacy.

The character is a half-elf Clr1/Rog14 (or Clr1/Rog13/whatever1).  He/She must be good, beholden to a celestial entity, and vow to abstain from harming any living creature.  The only stat required is base Cha 17; even low-Int characters have enough skill points for this path.

This requires 8 feats, the base 6 plus two from rogue special abilities: Cosmopolitan (Diplomacy), Courteous Magocracy, Negotiator, Nymph's Kiss, Sacred Vow, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace

19 ranks of Diplomacy
+6 synergy
+11 Charisma
+3 competence (_circlet of pursuasion_)
+4 sacred (Herald or Joy domain)
+1 luck (_stone of good luck_)
+2 racial
+2 perfection (Sacred Vow)
+4 exalted (Vow of Peace)
+2 Negotiator
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Nymph's Kiss
+2 Cosmopolitan
+2 Courteous Magocracy
-----------------------
Total: +63


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## Cyraneth (Nov 10, 2003)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> I have a small improvement on CyberSpyder's Diplomatic smackdown.
> 
> With the Book of... (Refer to original post for full message.)



With AEG's Rokugan book, I was able to create a 2nd-level character with a +27 Diplomacy modifier. Rather impressive, considering the low level.

2nd-level human courtier of the Unicorn clan

+5 - 5 ranks in Diplomacy
+2 - 5 ranks in Bluff
+2 - 5 ranks in Knowledge (nobility and royalty)
+2 - 5 ranks in Sense Motive
+3 - Cool Head feat
+3 - Skill Focus (diplomacy) feat
+2 - Talented class ability
+4 - Style and Grace class ability
+4 - 18 Charisma
-----------------------------------
+27

Beat that (with a 2nd-level character, that is...). 

- Cyraneth


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## CRGreathouse (Nov 10, 2003)

Cyraneth said:
			
		

> Beat that (with a 2nd-level character, that is...).




Sure.  Courtier1/Cleric1, otherwise identical to yours, with the Community and Herald domains.


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## Cyraneth (Nov 10, 2003)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> Sure.  Courtier1/Cleric1, otherwise identical to yours, with the Community and Herald domains.



Ah, of course. Sorry. Just felt like I had to stick with something semi-realistic, and Rokugan doesn't allow the cleric class, so it was either courtier or cleric.

- Cyraneth


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## CRGreathouse (Nov 10, 2003)

Cyraneth said:
			
		

> Ah, of course. Sorry. Just felt like I had to stick with something semi-realistic, and Rokugan doesn't allow the cleric class, so it was either courtier or cleric.
> 
> - Cyraneth




Of course.  You did ask, though.

I think that both Talented and Cool Head are questionable in 3.5.  Cool Head is just Skill Focus, of course, while Talented could add +1 (same total), +2 (same difference), or +3 (same multiplier).


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## Tzeentch (Nov 21, 2003)

*Necromancer Smack?*

As I seem to be unable to actually _search_ the forum, can anyone point me to a 3.0/3.5 smackdown dealing with necromancers/undead using only WotC books?


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## TracerBullet42 (Nov 21, 2003)

Tzeentch said:
			
		

> As I seem to be unable to actually _search_ the forum, can anyone point me to a 3.0/3.5 smackdown dealing with necromancers/undead using only WotC books?




Here's a 3.5 Smackdown thread: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66888&highlight=smackdown

There are lots of 3.0 ones...I'd list them all for you, but I've had a long day, and I'm off to bed...

Hope that helps some.


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## Elric (Nov 21, 2003)

Among other things, Four Color to Fantasy let you take a level of Hero to get 8 Hero points.  1 Hero point could get you any feat, but you also have to take the oh-so-terrible restriction that you can only use it in light or no armor (otherwise it is 2 hero points).

I mean, no offense to the publishers of various books, but there are loopholes like that in some rules that enable you to take ridiculous advantage of loopholes in other books.  Finding something to give yourself 15 free feats or double/triple/quadruple damage is what really makes a smack.

Also, Jeremy thought of the absolutely ridiculous Spelldancer smack.  I don't think he posted the even more ridiculous "Spelldancer-Incantatrix-lots of time on your hands" smack, which I noticed can give truly infinite results.  He might have thought of it but refrained from making the ultimate-everything smackdown (100,000s in your ability scores will do that)


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## reapersaurus (Nov 22, 2003)

Elric said:
			
		

> I mean, no offense to the publishers of various books, but there are loopholes like that in some rules that enable you to take ridiculous advantage of loopholes in other books.  Finding something to give yourself 15 free feats or double/triple/quadruple damage is what really makes a smack.



The funny thing is, that arguably the most-abusive PrC of ALL is the Spelldancer, from WotC's Magic of Faerun.
And the hilarious thing is, Jeremy's wondrously-broken Spelldancer cheese is *completely by the rules.*
It hasn't been errated, or FAQ'd at all.
Nothing is stopping every single 3.0 Smack from simply using one Leadership feat to get a Spelldancer cohort, and have insane stats and buffs.

That's exactly what I was getting at a month ago when I said "I think there should be some suggested limitations, because you know what kind of cheese there is out there, Jeremy. "


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## HidaSasuke (Dec 3, 2003)

This doesn't follow the base rules of the smackdown exactly, I'm ashamed to say.  It's 18 levels, and is best done over the course of two rounds of combat.  However, it's damaging enough that I think it's worth putting up, especially in the context of a WotC-only 3.5 smack.  I apologize if the format is confusing in any way.

Books: Core 3.5 rules, The Complete Warrior (WotC's 3.5 equivalent of Sword and Fist)

Half-Orc, starting Strength of 20.

Lvl1	Barbarian	Destructive Rage
Lvl2	Fighter		Power Attack
Lvl3	Fighter		Intimidating Rage, Cleave
Lvl4	Fighter
Lvl5	Fighter		Weapon Focus (Lance)
Lvl6	Fighter		Mounted Combat
Lvl7	Frenzied Berserker
Lvl8	Frenzied Berserker
Lvl9	Frenzied Berserker	Ride-By Attack
Lvl10	Frenzied Berserker
Lvl11	Frenzied Berserker
Lvl12	Frenzied Berserker	Spirited Charge
Lvl13	Frenzied Berserker
Lvl14	Frenzied Berserker
Lvl15	Frenzied Berserker	Improved Sunder
Lvl16	Frenzied Berserker
At this point, find a way to get your alignment changed to Lawful.  You should still have all your abilities from Frenzied Berserker available, unless I missed something.
Lvl17	Cavalier	
Lvl18	Cavalier	Combat Brute

x4 Power Attack from Frenzied Berserker
Combat Brute + Frenzied Berseker = x5 Power Attacks, with two-handed weapon on second-round attack

Base 20 Str
Rage +2 Str
Frenzy +10 Str
Belt of Giant Strength +6 Str, 36k
Manual of Gainful Exercise +4 Str, 110k
4 Stat boosts into Strength, +4 Str
Major Ring of Spell Storing w/ Righteous Might, +8 Str,  Lance becomes 2d6

That's 54 Strength, for a total bonus of +22.  Using a Lance two-handed, that becomes +33.

Rhino Hide armor, +2d6 damage, 5165 gp
+1 Axiomatic Holy Flaming Shocking Frost Vicious Bane Lance, 200k gp
Greater Magic Weapon on Lance, making it +5.
Activate your Ring, then Rage, then Frenzy, then charge while mounted at a target matching the Bane on your weapon.
Burning all +18 BAB into Power Attack gives +72 damage.
That's 2d6(Lance)+7d6(enchantments)+112.
Deadly Charge with a Lance multiplies all that except the enchantments by 4.
That's 8d6+11d6+448, or 19d6+448, for an average of 514.5 damage in round 1.

And if you want, go to a second round.  Using your Combat Brute feat, burn off all +18 BAB for a Full Attack on your opponent.  That'll give +90 damage.  Now, with the Frenzy, you're swinging 5 times.  You hit with all 5 (likely, with your huge strength), that's (2d6(lance)+11d6(enchantments)+90(Power Attack)+33(Strength)+5(enchantment))*5, or 10d6+55d6+450+165+25, or 65d6+640, for an average of 867.5 damage in round 2.  All in all, that's an average of 1382 damage over two rounds, or 691 damage per round.

It could probably get nastier by dropping Frost or somesuch and adding Spell Storing capability to the weapon, tossing some sort of Con-damage spell in there, but I really don't want to look through the spells to find the best one.


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## Onyx (Dec 28, 2003)

*Psudo-Bumpage*



			
				HidaSasuke said:
			
		

> This doesn't follow the base rules of the smackdown exactly, I'm ashamed to say.  It's 18 levels, and is best done over the course of two rounds of combat.  However, it's damaging enough that I think it's worth putting up, especially in the context of a WotC-only 3.5 smack.  I apologize if the format is confusing in any way.
> 
> Books: Core 3.5 rules, The Complete Warrior (WotC's 3.5 equivalent of Sword and Fist)
> 
> ...




*gives a round of applause*

It is really refreshing to see the atrocious 3.5 PowerAttack FB changes put to good use.


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## Impeesa (Dec 28, 2003)

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142565&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

Here, you guys can probably appreciate this. Towards the end we started tossing around some pretty ridiculous builds, but it wouldn't be too hard to condense that into a reasonable 16-level smackdown capable of hundreds of thousands of damage.   

--Impeesa--


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## Caliban (Dec 29, 2003)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> Power Lunge allows you "to inflict double your strength modifier *in addition to* the attack's damage." The "in addition to" pretty much spells out that it is neither a replacement of your base strength modifier nor a case of multipliers. This leaves us with one alternative -- it adds double your strength modifier to the attack's damage, which is exactly what the feat says it does.



It has been officially clarified that "in addition to" means "in addition to the attacks damage (not including str modifier)" , not "in addition to the attacks damage (including strength modifier).    

The intent of the feat is to allow you to do double your strength modifier in damage, not triple your strength modifier in damage.

That's the way it works in every official campaign run by the RPGA, and how it was clarified by the Sage via e-mail after it was brought up.


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## Jeremy (Dec 29, 2003)

If anyone is interested, on the one and only page of this exhibition death match, a hulking hurler hits his war hulk opponent for 49,748 damage.  Oh, plus 4 fire.  

http://rpol.net/rpol/display.cgi?gi=668&gn=The+Exodus:+Epic+DnD+3.5&threadnum=208&date=1069788918


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## Onyx (Dec 29, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> If anyone is interested, on the one and only page of this exhibition death match, a hulking hurler hits his war hulk opponent for 49,748 damage.  Oh, plus 4 fire.
> 
> http://rpol.net/rpol/display.cgi?gi=668&gn=The+Exodus:+Epic+DnD+3.5&threadnum=208&date=1069788918




...and as we all know, it's the 4 fire damage that counts.


All I have to say is, 'Sick!'.

Thank you.


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## Impeesa (Dec 30, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> If anyone is interested, on the one and only page of this exhibition death match, a hulking hurler hits his war hulk opponent for 49,748 damage.  Oh, plus 4 fire.
> 
> http://rpol.net/rpol/display.cgi?gi=668&gn=The+Exodus:+Epic+DnD+3.5&threadnum=208&date=1069788918




Only 50,000? Geez, in our discussion on the WotC boards, we were up into the millions pre-epic. 

--Impeesa--


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## thegreatbuddha (Jan 11, 2004)

Caliban said:
			
		

> It has been officially clarified that "in addition to" means "in addition to the attacks damage (not including str modifier)" , not "in addition to the attacks damage (including strength modifier).
> 
> The intent of the feat is to allow you to do double your strength modifier in damage, not triple your strength modifier in damage.




I didn't know they had errata'd it.  That changes a good number of my smacks.


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## Saeviomagy (Jan 12, 2004)

Impeesa said:
			
		

> Only 50,000? Geez, in our discussion on the WotC boards, we were up into the millions pre-epic.
> 
> --Impeesa--



This guy didn't have access to war hulk(about x16 damage), nor did he make a 4 legged build (about another x3).


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## Creamsteak (Jan 12, 2004)

Has 3.5 increased the average damage of smacks significantly higher or something? Looks like you might need to raise the bar very high. Anyway, I'm currently working on a smack, but I wanted to post where I am so far. This is without the crunching and item sniffing stages really getting thoroughly abused... and I'm trying to just use the 3.5 Core Rules + Complete Warrior.

This is a simple 16th level fighter right now (no race even), with unspent feats. I would like to either up the strength or the damage bonus from power attack if possible, but any other advice would be helpful. Also, I could quite possibly have something wrong here.

*Ability Scores*
Two Natural 18s enhanced to 20 each with bonus ability score points from levels. One in strength, one in dex.

*Equipment*
2 +3 Flaming, Frost, Shock, Speed, Vicious Large Warmaces
+6 Strength Item

*Feats*
Feats
Exotic weapon proficiency (warmace), monkey grip
Two-weapon fighting
Weapon focus (warmace)
Weapon specialization (warmace)
Improved two-weapon fighting, Power Attack
Greater two-weapon fighting (warmace)
Greater weapon focus (warmace)
Greater weapon specialization (warmace)

*Buffs*
True Strike

*Full Attack*
*Attacks:* +26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+21/+16/+16/+11
*Damage:* (3d6 weapon + 1d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 1d6 electricity + 2d6 vicious + 3 magic, + 8 strength + 24 Power Attack)*5 Attacks + (3d6 weapon + 1d6 fire + 1d6 cold + 1d6 electricity + 2d6 vicious + 3 magic, + 4 strength + 24 Power Attack)*4

(Average: 551 Damage)


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## eduardo (Jan 16, 2004)

Im sure someone must have posted it, but I'll post it again (couldnt read all 19 pages of SMACKS)

Human Psychic Warrior Level 8
Str 10
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 20 (+2 Level)
Wis 10
Cha 10

Itens: Bag of Holding full of shurikens

1st round, drop shurikens on the ground as move-equivalent action, manifest Telekinesis on the shurikens throwing them all on your foe...

25 pounds x 8 = 200 pounds
Shurikens 1/10 pounds each, 1 damage each
200 x 10 = 2000 damage

You attack with Int bonus + Base attack bonus
That would be +9 to hit, but then again, you have 8 more levels to spend and feats, magic itens to boost it...


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## Diirk (Jan 16, 2004)

You can't have flaming + frost on same weapon in 3.5 !


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## silentspace (Jan 16, 2004)

What's a warmace?  That's a mighty powerful weapon.  A greatsword wielded one-handed via Monkey Grip will only do 2d6.


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 16, 2004)

Diirk said:
			
		

> You can't have flaming + frost on same weapon in 3.5 !




And your source for this interesting rule is...?

-Hyp.


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## Darkness (Jan 16, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> What's a warmace? That's a mighty powerful weapon. A greatsword wielded one-handed via Monkey Grip will only do 2d6.



One-Handed Exotic Melee Weapon from Complete Warrior. Damage 1d12. Gives -1 to AC. Can be used as a Two-Handed Martial Weapon instead (e.g., like a bastard sword).


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## Endur (Jan 17, 2004)

Frenzied Berserker loses all abilities when he becomes lawful.  Pre-requisite for being a Frenzied Berserker is alignment: non-lawful.  As soon as he becomes lawful (for Cavalier), you lose all FB abilities (and Barbarian Rage too).



			
				HidaSasuke said:
			
		

> Half-Orc, starting Strength of 20.
> 
> Lvl1	Barbarian	Destructive Rage
> Lvl2	Fighter		Power Attack
> ...


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 17, 2004)

Endur said:
			
		

> Frenzied Berserker loses all abilities when he becomes lawful.  Pre-requisite for being a Frenzied Berserker is alignment: non-lawful.  As soon as he becomes lawful (for Cavalier), you lose all FB abilities (and Barbarian Rage too).




In 3.5, the rule for PrC requirements is that you must meet them before you take the first level.

The rule about losing all class features except BAB, hit dice, and saves if you lose access to a requirement didn't make it through the revision, as far as I know.

Whether this was deliberate or accidental, I couldn't say.

(The rule about not being able to use a feat if you lose access to a prerequisite still exists, however.)

It may be that they decided it was silly that a Dwarven Defender who turned 125, lost a point of Dex and thus lost his Dodge prerequisite suddenly lost all his class abilities.

Or it may be that they left a sentence out, like they did with PrCs not counting towards multiclass penalties.

-Hyp.


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## HidaSasuke (Jan 17, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> In 3.5, the rule for PrC requirements is that you must meet them before you take the first level.
> 
> The rule about losing all class features except BAB, hit dice, and saves if you lose access to a requirement didn't make it through the revision, as far as I know.
> 
> ...




Nah, he's right.  Page 16 of Complete Warrior, under "Meeting Class Requirements".  "If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class.  The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided."  I'd missed that before.

Still a smackdown, I'd say.  You don't get the x4 damage from the Cavalier's Deadly Charge, being stuck with a mere x3, but that's OK.  Hell, you can drop Weapon Focus (Lance) since you're not going for Cavalier anymore, and get it in 16 levels, thus meeting the level restriction for a Smackdown.  You'll be 91,165gp over the starting cash allowance of a 16th-level character, but that's easily remedied by a loan from another party member.

Given that, swapping Axiomatic enchantment for Anarchic, and correcting some math errors from the original post ... first round, 2d6(lance)+11d6(enchantments)+104(33 strength, 64 Power Attack, 5 enhancement, +2 to the enhancement from Bane), all but the enchantments are x3, so that's 8d6+11d6+312, or an average of 378.5 for round one.  Round two gives (2d6(lance)+11d6(enchantments)+80(Power Attack)+33(Strength)+7(enhancement))*5, for a round-two average of 802.5.  Total damage over two rounds, 1181.  Average per round, 590.5.  Sounds like it still works to me.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 17, 2004)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> I didn't know they had errata'd it.  That changes a good number of my smacks.



Interesting how you accept it when it's directly from Caliban, but when I said almost the same exact thing (in fact, I was paraphrasing Caliban), it was dismissed out of hand by a few people.

P.S. I thought that this thread wasn't supposed to use 3.5 stuff? (Complete Warrior)


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 17, 2004)

HidaSasuke said:
			
		

> Nah, he's right.  Page 16 of Complete Warrior, under "Meeting Class Requirements".  "If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class.  The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided."  I'd missed that before.




Ah, that's right.  I do remember hearing now that they finally fixed it for 3.5 when CW came out 

-Hyp.


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## Emirikol (Jan 17, 2004)

Oh, the irony!  THat just happened to my Thrall of Graz/zt!

jh


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## Onyx (Mar 11, 2004)

*Kabooomp!*

Let's keep up the good work, guys.


By the by, I've been tangentially working on a Dervish smack and I was looking for a few good feat suggestions.

Let me know.


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## RangerWickett (Mar 11, 2004)

Elric said:
			
		

> Among other things, Four Color to Fantasy let you take a level of Hero to get 8 Hero points.  1 Hero point could get you any feat, but you also have to take the oh-so-terrible restriction that you can only use it in light or no armor (otherwise it is 2 hero points).




Just to clarify, that was a misunderstanding of the rules (and at one time was a mistake even I made).  With any given super power in FCTF, you cannot spend more hero points than your total character level +3.  The Gain Feat superpower lets you buy feats for 2 hero points each, and each feat is part of the same super power.  Thus, if you got four feats, with the restriction you mentioned, it would cost 7 hero points, meaning you'd have to be at least 4th level.  And it means that two levels of Hero when you're 12th level doesn't give you 16 feats at 1 point apiece, it gives you 8 feats for 15 points total, and 1 spare point.

Plus I recall somewhere in that book it said that a restriction that is not a drawback cannot provide any sort of price reduction.  When Reapersaurus took divine feats with the restriction that they were 'magical' and thus could be negated by antimagic, it wasn't really a drawback, because you can't channel divine energy in antimagic fields anyway.

Tsk tsk tsk.  You rules lawyers and the hoops you jump through.  I don't mind smackdowns that really take advantage of the letter of the rules, but have some care about their spirit, please.  *grin*


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## Onyx (Jul 9, 2004)

*No one loves it anymore.*

*weeps*


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