# Mighty Composite Longbows, am I reading this right?



## DM with a vengence (Sep 23, 2003)

I recently upgraded to 3.5, and one of the things I noticed while flipping through the books is that Mighty Composite Longbows are no longer limited to +4 Str, but can instead accomodate theoretically unlimited bonues to damage, as long as you can pay 100 gp per point of Str Bonus.

Is there supposed to be some sort of maximum on this like in 3e, or are they really letting archers use Mighty Composite Longbows +10?.


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## Lareit (Sep 23, 2003)

Actually, if i recall correctly, it was never limited to just +4 in 3.0.

I may be wrong, i don't have my books on hand though, i'm just fairly certain because in a recent campaign an archer had a str of 20 and was using a +5 mighty in 3.0 rules.


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## dcollins (Sep 23, 2003)

In 3.0 there was a table that went up to +4 and that was it -- no explicit language on whether bonuses were allowed past that or not (nor pricing system for anything past that). Personally I did use that as a limit.

The MM storm giant had a gargantuan mighty composite longbow with a +14 bonus, but that seemed pretty unique.


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## Particle_Man (Sep 23, 2003)

I extrapolated from the storm giant weapon that mighty composite bows would double their maximum mightiness per increase in size category of the weapon.  So that the maximum mightiness of said bow would equal the minimum number of feet tall of the average biped of the same size class as the bow.

But in 3.5, since there are now bows that vary by size class, I guess now there are no limits.

It does make the Odysseus-style archer a more viable character.  A strong enough half-orc with a Mighty +10 composite bow is pretty tough!


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## Senior Bobo (Sep 23, 2003)

*Mighty Bows*

Recently, in the Gnoll version of WotC's Elite Opponents series on their web site there is a half-fiend gnoll with a +7 mighty composite bow.   That's not definitive proof but it was enough to convince me that there's no limit to mighty bows in 3.5.


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## rowport (Sep 23, 2003)

Keeping in mind that I am not a master fletcher or anything, I would not see any mechanical reason why there should be an upper limit, even in real-world terms.  It is fairly straightforward to build a composite bow that is too stiff to be pulled by normal human strength (although I cannot imagine anybody doing so in the real-world!)  The only reason for an upper limit that I can think of- and it should be a quite-high limit- is the durability of the bow material itself.  In other words, the tension could be set so high that pulling the bow might break the cord or the bow itself.


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## diaglo (Sep 23, 2003)

anyone remember reading about penelope's hubby? 


edit: also Banewarrens d20 by Monte Cook has a gnoll ranger with mighty bow (str 20  = +5)  of course he is the "variant type" ranger.


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## Zad (Sep 23, 2003)

I think if there was supposed to be a maximum, then they'd mention it. So I therefore infer that there is not supposed to be.

Remember that you take a penalty now if you are using a bow that has a stronger "pull" than your strength bonus. So now there's a new downside to mighty bows that didn't exist before.


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## Shard O'Glase (Sep 23, 2003)

yep no limit in 3.5.  I kind of wonder if the archers overall got hurt or helped in 3.5.  A couple good new archer feats, unlimited str bonus, magic bows help get past ,magic DR, but you can't stack the magic enhancement to hit and damage on the bow with the arrows.  No dedicated archer in my game so I can't say, but my initial guess would be in point buy its a wash to being a little weaker, in a roll method where you can get a good str and good dex they may be better in 3.5.


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## Pagan priest (Sep 24, 2003)

WotC however did perpetuate the error from 3.0 in claiming that a bow must be composite to be mighty.

The *non-composite* long bows recovered from the wreck of the _Marie Rose_ were examined and determined to have pulls of about 180 lb.  I would describe that as a mighty bow.  For comparison, modern bows may have pulls of 45 to 75 lb.  Compound bows, with all the pulleys and such, have considerably higher pulls (sounds like an argument fro some sort of magical augmentation for a mighty bow with no str needed to use it...).


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## The Souljourner (Sep 24, 2003)

Archers are *way* way weaker in 3.5, as they should be (they were ridiculous before).

The main difference being the stacking of enhancement bonuses on bows and ammunition, and the slight nerf to GMW.  A single GMW gave your archer +3 to hit and damage at 9th level.. all day!  Who cares if the bow enhancement doesn't get past DR!  If you have a cleric or wizard in the party, you're set.  If you could get two of the spells, you have +6 to hit and damage... my elven archer (rogue 3, fighter 4, OotBI 2) with 16 str and 20 dex was doing 1d8+12 at 30' or less, with 3 attacks at +20/+20/+15.

Now he does 1d8+8 at +14/+14/+9

(loss of: +4 to hit and damage - no stacking of enhancements, and GWM is +2 at 9th, not +3; loss of: +2 to hit - cat's grace doesn't last all day anymore)

Now, it's nice that mighty bows go above +4, but hey, that wasn't much of a limiting factor before.

The archer feats are really cool, and I'm glad they switched out insane power with more versatility, but they're definitely a lot weaker now than they were before.

-The Souljourner


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## dagger (Sep 24, 2003)

One good thing they did give archers is that Weapon spec and favored enemy are not limited to 30'.


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## Hypersmurf (Sep 24, 2003)

Note that "Mighty" is no longer an applicable term in 3.5.

_All_ composite bows in 3.5 have a Strength rating.  There is no longer a distinction between "composite bows" and "mighty composite bows", just assorted Strength ratings.

-Hyp.


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## melkoriii (Sep 24, 2003)

Also if your Str is not suffitiant to use the Mighty Bow you get a negitive to attack AND can only use upto your Str bonus to damage.


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## Darklone (Sep 24, 2003)

That was my houserule for mighty longbows... never liked the arabian composite stuff... not good in swamps and foggy woods


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