# Problem with Evoke [Element]



## Suldulin (Jan 1, 2003)

I've a conceptual problem with Evoke Element having a reflex save and requiring a touch attack.

a) because it counts the same thing twice(dex) to avoid it

b) because of the "wow, you rolled a nat 20, but you see, the rogue has evasion. . ."




opinions on how to adjust this but keep it balanced?

make it just a have to hit?(and have force auto-hit ala magic missle)?

make it just a save?

make it a to hit and uses will or fort to half?

keep it as is but include a caveat that evasion that it is unaffected by evasion and improved evasion?(doesn't avoid the counting dex twice problem but does avoid the hit/don't hit evasion problem)

any other ideas?


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## Alzrius (Jan 1, 2003)

I would eliminate the Reflex save. The rationale being that if you have already successfully laid your hand on the person, no matter how fast or dexterous they are, they can't possibly evade that.

The other option, keeping the save but eliminating the attack role, doesn't make much sense when you still have a range of Touch. The only way to really fix it that way is to give it a greater range, but that strays into being unbalancing, despite it being more in line with "traditional" spells like _Fireball_ and _Lightning Bolt_.

Mind you, I don't own the product, so there may be things I'm not taking into account here.


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## RangerWickett (Jan 6, 2003)

I would chalk this one up to error.  I think the only spell that requires both an attack roll and a saving throw is Disintegrate, and I'm none too fond of that spell anyway.  If a spell requires an attack roll, no save is necessary.

In my opinion, the core D&D Disintegrate should deal 2d6 points of damage per level to the target.  If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less, it is totally disintegrated.  I think the high damage threshold is balanced by the fact that it affects only one target.

Similarly, I think Harm should just do 10d8+1/level points of damage.  None of this "reduces to 1d4 hp."


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## Suldulin (Jan 6, 2003)

honestly I'm ok with a touch attack and a will or fort save(there are a few more I think), because it counts two different things. . .

the touch attack and reflex though I don't like because of the counting the same thing twice and the evasion phomenon.

edit: so that said, any serious balance issues with just using the touch attack(and autohit with force(somewhat same effect as if using the area spell-list))?


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## Alzrius (Jan 6, 2003)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> *In my opinion, the core D&D Disintegrate should deal 2d6 points of damage per level to the target.  If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less, it is totally disintegrated.  I think the high damage threshold is balanced by the fact that it affects only one target.
> 
> Similarly, I think Harm should just do 10d8+1/level points of damage.  None of this "reduces to 1d4 hp." *




Ryan, have you seen this article on the WotC website?: http://wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/ei/ei20030105a


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