# Testament: In the Shadow of Sinai.  (full)



## Maerdwyn (May 25, 2004)

This is the OOC/Recruiting/Organization thread for "In the Shadow of Sinai" - A Testament PbP game. 

We have four player and will start within a week or so - space for one more 

Reservations I had about starting this game were discussed here, but suffice to say this game will take place in a Biblical setting, but may not follow the Bible consistently, either superficialy or at a deeper level. If that may offend you, I ask you not to read further. However, I do invite you to email me, or a mod, with your concerns.

After some more thought on the game, we will start out with a purely Israelite campaign. Almost all of the characters should be Israelite in ethnicity, although I might allow a character of another type (Egyptian or Canaanite being the easiest to integrate) if the character's back story truly justified it. Remember that this group of Israelites has been travelling through the desert for more than thirty years. 

Andrew D Gable, Cannibal Kender, Yangnome, Voadam, and humble minion have first shot at this, as they have expressed interest already. Please confirm if you are still interested. Anyone else, let me know if you are interested as well, in case we have an open slot, or if you want to be an alternate.

The game will begin in 2486 (1274BCE), with the Israelites at the base of Mount Sinai.

Characters will start at 4th level. 32 point buy - I'll try to help those without the book.

Also, I will be away from Friday May 28 to Friday June 4 (though I may have some internet access during that time.) - we won't be starting the game up until after that, although we can certainl start of character generation, questions, etc.

Here's some immediate background for what the chracters are experiencing at the present time: 

***********************
EXODOS 
CHAPTER 24, Verses 1-15
1 And to Moses he said, Go up to the Lord, you and Aaron and Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: and they shall worship the Lord from a distance.
2 And Moses alone shall draw near the Lord; and they shall not draw near, and the people shall not come up with them.
3 And Moses went in and related to the people all the words of the Lord and the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice, saying, All the words which the Lord has spoken, we will do and be obedient.
4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and built an altar under the mountain, and set up twelve stones for the twelve tribes of Israel.
5 And he sent forth the young men of the children of Israel, and they offered whole burnt offerings, and they sacrificed young calves as a peace offering to the Lord.
6 And Moses took half the blood and poured it into bowls, and half the blood he poured out upon the altar.
7 And he took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the ears of the people, and they said, All things whatsoever the Lord has said we will do and be obedient.
8 And Moses took the blood and sprinkled it upon the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you concerning all these words.
9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, and Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
10 And they saw the place where the God of Israel stood; and under His feet was as it were a work of sapphire slabs, and as it were the appearance of the firmament of heaven in its purity.
11 And of the chosen ones of Israel there was not even one missing, and they appeared in the place of the Lord, and did eat and drink.
12 And the Lord said to Moses, Come up to Me into the mountain, and be there; and I will give you the tablets of stone, the law and the commandments, which I have written, to give them laws.
13 And Moses rose up and Joshua his attendant, and they went up into the mount of the Lord.
14 And to the elders they said, Rest there till we return to you; and behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have a cause to be tried, let them go to them.
15 And Moses and Joshua went up to the mountain, and the cloud covered the mountain.

CHAPTER 32, Verses 1-6
1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered together against Aaron, and said to him, Arise and make us gods who shall go before us; for this Moses, the man who brought us forth out of the land of Egypt -- we do not know what has become of him.
2 And Aaron said to them, Take off the golden earrings which are in the ears of your wives and daughters, and bring them to me.
3 And all the people took off the golden earrings that were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron.
4 And he received them from their hands, and formed them with a engraving tool; and he made them a molded calf, and said, These _are_ your gods, O Israel, which have brought you up out of the land of Egypt.
5 And Aaron, having seen it, built an altar before it, and Aaron made a proclamation saying, Tomorrow _is_ a holy feast.
6 And having risen early on the next day, he offered whole burnt offerings, and offered a peace offering; and the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to revel.


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## yangnome (May 25, 2004)

Definately still interested.  My offer to host it over at my site still stands as well if you want. I don't have the book yet, but as I said before, I've been looking for an excuse to buy it.  Now I just need to wait for the perfect opportunity to embezzle the money from my wife.  So, I guess I'll need help with game stats until then.


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## Andrew D. Gable (May 25, 2004)

Here I am.  Count me in.


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## Cannibal_Kender (May 25, 2004)

Still interested.


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## Maerdwyn (May 25, 2004)

Glad to hear it, guys! Welcome aboard.

A few quick notes to be thinking about_:

Work on your character's family, in addition to the character itself - if over 15, your chracter is probably married, and over 20 almost definately is. If not, there should be an explanation. Characters would be aware of their family history over the past couple generations, so coming up with a couple personages or events from that history might be helpful. 

For names, a good resource is Kate Monk's wonderful Onomastikon.

Any Israelite should be a member of one of the 12 Tribes: Reuben, Simeon, Levi (members must take Levi Priest as their first class, and gain some benefits for doing so. Members of other tribes may take this class, but don't gain the extra benefits), Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph (The Tribe of Joseph had two branches, named after his sons: Manasser and Ephraim), and Benjamin. If you want an Egyptian or Canaanite character, let me know, and we'll go over family info.

Finally, each character in Testament has at least one pronounced flaw - something that he or she struggles against or must constantly deal with the consequences of throughout life. (For those without the book, here is a list, although you could make up your own by clearing it with me: Boaster, Bully, Covetous, Coward, Deceitful, Drunkard, Fanatic, Gullible, Hedonist, Inhospitable, Irritatng, Lecher, Proud, Profane, Quarrelsome, Racist, Superstious, Tragic, Vain, Warmonger, Weak of Will, World Weary, Wrathful.)


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## Maerdwyn (May 25, 2004)

*Languages*

Characters automatically know one native language - for most charcaters that will be Hebrew.  All characters should speak some Hebrew.  Secondary languages may be chosen from the following: Akkadian, Ammonite, Arabic, Edomite, Egyptian, Phoenician, and Ugaritic.  Phoenician and Ugaritic are the most common languages in the region the Israelites are trying to get to; Egyptian was spoken where they just came from.  

After the native tongue, additional languages are learned as follows:
1 Rank:  Basic verbal communication.
2 Ranks:  Verbal Fluency
4 Ranks:  Verbal Fluency with no accent
Bonus language slots from INT count as 1 skill point that can be spent on languages only.

Literacy costs one rank per language, and may be chosen if the character has at least one rank in the verbal language.
If one knows one language in a family, he can communicate (as if having 1 rank in the language) in other languages in the family by making a DC15 Check against his skill in the language he does know.


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## Maerdwyn (May 25, 2004)

*Campaign itself*

As envisioned ( and this could change, as early as the first scene, I guess), the characters will be sent out from the Israelites as spies in the land of Caanan, as described in Numbers Chapter 13.  You characters don't need to be the people named there, of course, and they don't have to be of different tribes.

There are a few ways we can handle this -

a)One of the chracters could be a lead "spy" with the others sent to aid.
b)after some initial investigations, several of the spies find each other and determine they need to work together
c)something else - I'd like to hear some input.

Anyway, with that in mind, think about why your character might be chosen for such a mission, remembering that spy isn't necessarily the cloak and dagger type - there are lots of ways to gather the required information.

Let me know your thoughts.


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## Andrew D. Gable (May 26, 2004)

My character idea is a half-Israelite, half-Egyptian (Egyptian father, Isrealite mother).  Class isn't set in stone, though I'm leaning towards a spy (naturally).  Should I still pick my mother's tribe?  And would my starting languages be changed at all?


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## Maerdwyn (May 26, 2004)

These are the classes I'm allowing at the start of the game. (Prestige classes and other core classes can potentially be chosen later - Multiclassing will require in-game explanation of the change). The specific classes that will become available to character later on will be determined by how the campaign progresses. Let me know if you REALLY want something else, and we'll work something out.

Israelite (*indicates a class from Testament):
Fighter
Levite Priest*
Paladin (we'll talk about the Israelite code)
Psalmist*
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer (must be kept rather secret - practicing the class openly with Moses around would not be good for your health)
Spy*

Egyptian (many of the uniquely Egyptian classes would not be appropriate for the start of the campaign, which takes place among th Israelites at Mt. Sina):
Bard (only secretly)
Fighter
Paladin(again, we'll talk about the code of behavior)
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer(only secretly)
Spy*

Canaanite (ditto)
Bard (only secretly)
Fighter
Paladin(again, we'll talk about the code of behavior)
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer(only secretly)
Spy*


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## Maerdwyn (May 26, 2004)

Andrew D. Gable said:
			
		

> My character idea is a half-Israelite, half-Egyptian (Egyptian father, Isrealite mother). Class isn't set in stone, though I'm leaning towards a spy (naturally). Should I still pick my mother's tribe? And would my starting languages be changed at all?



Sounds good - I am assuming the father is out of the picture, but maybe that's wrong.

You may choose either Egyptian or Hebrew as the native language, but should probably take a couple or three ranks in the other, as well.

You should still pick your mother's tribe.

Spy is definately a great choice - but I don't want to give the impression it's the only way to go, since a character of any class can function in that capacity; additionally, if things go in ways other than I anticipate (as always happens when a campaign starts ), the mission of the group might change somewhat drastically.


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## Andrew D. Gable (May 26, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> Sounds good - I am assuming the father is out of the picture, but maybe that's wrong.




Most likely.  It's just something for you to maybe play with, I dunno.


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## Andrew D. Gable (May 27, 2004)

Are you using Piety or alignment?


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## Maerdwyn (May 27, 2004)

Andrew D. Gable said:
			
		

> Are you using Piety or alignment?



Sorry, should have mentioned that.  Piety.


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## Andrew D. Gable (May 27, 2004)

Here's my character.

*****

*Asenath*
Israelite Spy 4

STR 10
CON 14 (+2)
DEX 16 (+3)
INT 12 (+1)
WIS 15 (+2) 
CHA 12 (+1)

*Hit Points:* 22 / 22
*Initiative:* +7 (+4 Improved Initiative, +3 Dex)
*AC:* 15 (+3 Dex, +2 Wis), flat-footed 12, touch 15
*Attacks:* Short sword +3 melee, damage 1d6 (19-20/x2); sling +6 ranged, damage 1d4
*Fort Save:* +6
*Ref Save:* +4 (+6 vs. charm)
*Will Save:* +4
*Piety:* 0 / 14
*Flaw:* Wrathful

*Languages:* Hebrew, Egyptian
*Skills:* Bluff +6, Diplomacy +7, Escape Artist +6, Gather Information +11, Hide +8, Intuit Direction +5, Listen +8, Search +5, Sense Motive +12, Spot +7, Tumble +6.
*Feats:* Alertness, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (gather information), Skill Focus (sense motive)
*Equipment:* Short sword, sling w/ 10 stones, commoner’s outfit

*XP:* 6,000 / 10,000
23 years old, 5'4", 108 lbs.

Asenath was born to Mahu, a guardian at a lesser temple of Khnum in the Egyptian city of Heliopolis, and Naomi of Judah, an Israelite slave.  Asenath’s father wanted nothing to do with her, and she grew up despising the Egyptians and their enslavement of the Israelite people.

When she came of age (16), Asenath was given to Eleazar, son of Maaz of Naphtali, another slave.  She bore him a daughter, Miriam, a year later.  When Eleazar was killed by the pursuing Egyptians, this was a terrible blow to Asenath who had a young daughter to support.  This, combined with the desperation of wandering, honed her anger to a fine point.  Asenath is now prone to fits of rage.

At the behest of the Israelite priests, Asenath managed to direct part of her anger into helping her people find a homeland.  She was sent by the elders to scout around the land of Canaan.  And so she is...


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## Voadam (May 27, 2004)

Regretfully I must bow out. I'm taking over DMing responsibility shortly for the group I regularly game with and don't think I will have time for another campaign right now. Enjoy, it looks like it could be a fun campaign.


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## Maerdwyn (May 27, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> Definately still interested. My offer to host it over at my site still stands as well if you want. I don't have the book yet, but as I said before, I've been looking for an excuse to buy it. Now I just need to wait for the perfect opportunity to embezzle the money from my wife. So, I guess I'll need help with game stats until then.



Thanks for the hosting offer, yangnome.  I think we'll try it here for now, but maybe we'll move if the mods ask us to or if the boards don't start moving a little faster.

Post a character concept, and I'll help you with Testament-specific stuff.


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## Maerdwyn (May 27, 2004)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Regretfully I must bow out. I'm taking over DMing responsibility shortly for the group I regularly game with and don't think I will have time for another campaign right now. Enjoy, it looks like it could be a fun campaign.



Sorry to see you go, Voadam, but thanks for letting me know.  Good luck with the new game!


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## yangnome (May 29, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> Thanks for the hosting offer, yangnome.  I think we'll try it here for now, but maybe we'll move if the mods ask us to or if the boards don't start moving a little faster.
> 
> Post a character concept, and I'll help you with Testament-specific stuff.




OK, sounds good.  I'm still giving thought to a character concept.  Real life has been pretty hectic this week, but I'll try to get something posted tonight.


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## Maerdwyn (May 29, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> OK, sounds good. I'm still giving thought to a character concept. Real life has been pretty hectic this week, but I'll try to get something posted tonight.



NP - I'm leaving town for a few days tonight, so there's no rush on anything.  I'll be back on Friday june 4, and I'll be looking to get things going sometime soon after that.

Thanks,
Ian


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## yangnome (Jun 9, 2004)

Are you still planning on running this?  I'd still like to play, but haven't worked on a character mcuh since things have been hectic with work.  I'm getting ready to have a few days off, and intend to work on it, but don't want to work on a character for a game that won't happen when I could work on my tabletop game.


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## Tonguez (Jun 9, 2004)

I haven't got the book but if there is space would be willing to play. To make it easy perhaps ease in as a fighter. 

Tsedeq is a Danite who sees himself as a Warrior for his people which leads to his flaw- a mix of fanaticism and warmongering. Is that possible and if I were aiming for a PrC would Champion of Israel be an option?


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 9, 2004)

Yangnome - Yes - Still Running   THings have been a bit hectic here too - Sorry.  

Tonguez, love to have you, and your concept is fine, including aiming for Champion of Israel.  Would you start as a fighter, paladin, or something else?

We have Andrew's character posted; as soon as the others are set, we can begin.  

Those of you without the book, let me knoe if you need any help/guidance.  As  far as equipment goes, this is the late Bronze Age, so a lot of stuff on the PHB equipment list is unavilable/unnecessary (Thieves' tools, etc.).  We are also using the barter system, as there is no set currency where the pcs are at present.  Equip your characters within reasononably, adding a few pieces of jewelry to denote social status or wealth, if that's in line with your character.


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## yangnome (Jun 9, 2004)

I am considering playing either a paladin or a rogue.  I just got off work and need some sleep so that I can think it over some more.  I am interested in hearing what options Testament offers for Paladins.  If I play a rogue, I was thinking of running some vigilante type rogue who is out to right wrongs (not a thief).  I'm thinking something ala Boondock Saints type personality for the character.  If neither of these things work for your game, let me know and I'll be happy to adjust my ideas.  I know you are looking at having us run spy missions and such.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 9, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> I am considering playing either a paladin or a rogue. I just got off work and need some sleep so that I can think it over some more. I am interested in hearing what options Testament offers for Paladins. If I play a rogue, I was thinking of running some vigilante type rogue who is out to right wrongs (not a thief). I'm thinking something ala Boondock Saints type personality for the character. If neither of these things work for your game, let me know and I'll be happy to adjust my ideas. I know you are looking at having us run spy missions and such.



For a Paladin, since we won't be using alignment, there will be a pretty well defined code of conduct based on avoiding sin and maintaining a high piety.  There may be some other revisions based on people's responses to the following questions:

Do you guys want a epic-style campaign or a grittier one? Some combination of the two? Any thoughts on the subject?


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## Tonguez (Jun 10, 2004)

You know I've just realised that since 3e came out I've never played as a 'fighter' so thats what I going to start with for Tsedeq - so what are the prereqs for Champion of Israel? - so I can start working on those now

As to game style is gritty Epic an option?  ie give me columns of fire and angels with flaming swords as well as the hard sweat and blood of wrestling with lions and trampling on scorpions! For the Lord is my Strength! BWAHAHAHAHA!


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## Cannibal_Kender (Jun 10, 2004)

Thinking about an Israelite ranger. Don't have the book. Any info I should know?


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## Andrew D. Gable (Jun 10, 2004)

Yeah, epic/gritty is the style I was thinking too.  Like the Bible itself, actually.


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## Tonguez (Jun 10, 2004)

Tsedeq son of Pali of the Tribe of Dan
Israelite Fighter 4

STR 17 (+3) CON 16 (+3) DEX 14 (+2) INT  10 (+0) WIS 12 (+1) CHA 10 (0)

Hit Points: 47 Initiative: +6 (+4 Improved Initiative, +2 Dex)
AC: 15 (+2dex +3 Studded Leather), flat-footed 13, touch 12
Attacks:Bab +4  Melee +8* _Greatclub 1d10+6**_ Ranged +6 _Spear 1d8+3_
Fort Save: +7 Ref Save: +3 Will Save: +2
Piety: 
Flaw:Fanaticism, Warmongering

Languages: Hebrew, 
Skills (14): Intimidate 4 (4+0), Spot 2 (2+1) Survival 3 (4+1). Knowledge (religion) 2 (4+0)  No Ranks: Climb 3 (3), Craft 0 (0), Handle Animal 0 (0), Jump 3(3), Ride 2 (2), and Swim 3 (3),  Perform 0 Diplomacy 0


Feats: Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (GreatClub*), Weapon Specilisation (GreatClub**), Cleave,  Combat Reflexes (+2)

Equipment: Great Club (1d10/x2), Spear (1d8/x2,20ft), Studded Leather Armour, leather straps bound around his forearms & wrist, and a blonze circlet around his head to keep the hair from his eyes. 

24 years old, 6'6", 197 lbs.

Standing 6'6" tall Tsedeq is a gigantic figure even amongst the other Danites and as he was growing up it was only natural that comparisons were drawn between himself and that greatest of Danite Judges. Tsedeq (whose name means righteous) has been inspired by the comparison and the legend and has formed an image of himself as a Warrior for his people, taking his righteous fury against all thos who oppose Yaweh Elohim Israel. Sometimes however his drive is fanatical and his fury at perceived enemies insatiable.
Tsedeq wears his hair long and in the manner of his ancestor it has never been cut. Tsedeqs mother Pali still lives but his father was killed years earlier during what was Tsedeqs first battle. 
Unusually Tsedeq himself has not yet found a wife, the girl he had courted during his younger years was given by her father to another man. Since then Tsedeq has devoted himself to his self appointed role as Defender of the people. Lately however his interests have been piqued by the widow Asenath ()

Edit: Okay I _wont_ be taking the Nazarite vow for now - maybe later.


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## humble minion (Jun 10, 2004)

I'd like to be involved in this one, as I mentioned in the other thread.  Is there room for another player?  I don't have Testament at this stage, but I will pick it up if necessary,


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

Cannibal kender, just the stuff posted in this thread - otherwise things are as normal. (Unless I implement a WP/VP system, as I'm currently considering. Thoughts anyone?)

*********
Humble minion, you are in (and there is still one spot open after you as well - but we'll start with four if all the characters are posted before we get another player.).

*********
Tonguez - [edit] see below for Nazirite info 

Prereqs for the Champion of Israel:
Piety >0
BAB +8
Diplomacy 4
Knowledge (religion) 6
Perform 3
Feats: Endurance, Power Attack, Cleave


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## humble minion (Jun 10, 2004)

Well, Tonguez has somehow managed to exactly duplicate my initial idea for a PC (in mechanical terms at least), so instead I'm considering a reluctant prophet of some sort.   He was something of a fringe-dweller - a hunter, wilderness guide, miner or something similar - before being granted a revelation.  Now, getting into his grizzled middle age, his children grown up and starting families of their own, he has been chosen to perform an arduous new duty as Yahweh's prophet.  While he knows what an honour this is, he is not terribly happy about it nonetheless.

 Flaw would probably be World Weary.  Class-wise he would be probably be a 3/1 ranger/prophet or fighter/prophet.  

 Questions (until I can get my hands on the book, probably on the weekend):
 - Is prophet a base or prestige class?  I'm getting mixed messages from various places.  If prestige, what are the prerequisites, and would this character be possible?
 - Are there modifications to the ranger in Testament, especially re spellcasting, two-weapon fighting, fighting styles, and other 'high-fantasy' elements?
 - Penalties for multiclassing?
 - 3e or 3.5?


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## Ghostknight (Jun 10, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> Humble minion, you are in (and there is still one spot open after you as well - but we'll start with four if all the characters are posted before we get another player.).




Hmm, I've been following this thread and debating if I want in or not.  I am really in two minds about this - on the one hand the game seems an intersting concept (though I have never seen the book and have no idea of how piety works), but on th eother hand seems to be based on a Christiam POV looking into the Jewish world at the time, and being an Orthodox Jew I don't know how much of a conflict this would create - I don't want to end up causing conflict in the game due to differences in interpretation as to what is/isn't the correct view!

On the other hand, whether I play or not I offer my services to you to clarify points for interest sake or for detail (there is some intersting comments etc in the Talmud which you will not find in the Five Books of Moses).

A word on Nazirites - the vow according to Halachah (Jewish Law), the vow MUST be for a limited time as the vow itself requires the foregoing of things required by Halachah.  Thus the sacrifice brought at the end of the period is actually a sin offering for failing to do those things.  (Particularly if married the Nazirite has failed in his marital obligations as it is a husbands duty to ensure his wife's sexual needs are fulfilled- NOT the other way round!).  

Heh, let me know if you want me around, either way no offense will be taken.


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## humble minion (Jun 10, 2004)

Obviously I can only speak for myself (and I'm just a mere player), Ghostknight, but you're welcome in the game as far as I'm concerned.  I have to admit I almost certainly have a Christian viewpoint of the setting, as that's the way I was brought up (the Book of Judges and the Book of Kings were much cooler than the boring New Testament stuff they wanted us to read at school...)  My current religious beliefs are irrelevant (and probably a forbidden topic of conversation on these boards anyway), but in terms of roleplaying, I think it will only make for a better game the more players we have who are well versed in the history and culture of the setting.

I'm not sure if you saw it, but Maerdwyn spelled out some of his intentions for the direction the game will take at http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87953.  You may want to check this out before you commit.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 10, 2004)

humble minion said:
			
		

> Obviously I can only speak for myself (and I'm just a mere player), Ghostknight, but you're welcome in the game as far as I'm concerned.  I have to admit I almost certainly have a Christian viewpoint of the setting, as that's the way I was brought up (the Book of Judges and the Book of Kings were much cooler than the boring New Testament stuff they wanted us to read at school...)  My current religious beliefs are irrelevant (and probably a forbidden topic of conversation on these boards anyway), but in terms of roleplaying, I think it will only make for a better game the more players we have who are well versed in the history and culture of the setting.
> 
> I'm not sure if you saw it, but Maerdwyn spelled out some of his intentions for the direction the game will take at http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87953.  You may want to check this out before you commit.




heh, thanks.  But I will wait to see what the GM says.  I saw the original thread and have been following this one, debating whether to post or not.  I am not easily offended but their is lots of potential for misunderstanding/disputes etc as the Christian view of piety is different to the Jewish one.  In Judaism silent contemplation, monastic behavior, etc is frowned on.  Indeed, the Talmud is made up of debate between Rabbis, it is considered preferrable to pray with ten men (a Minyan), rather than alone, it is a mitzvah (positive decree) to get married and have children etc.  So in a game like this exploring these issues it can be difficult if people have different expectations and any GM has the right to dictate how he wants his game.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

Hi Ghostknight - 

Thanks for being so considerate! I think the most honest way to respond is to say, yes , this game is set in a Jewish time period as seen by a Christian. If only because if I run the game, that's by definition what is has to be. I'll be trying to kep the Christian point of view out of it, though, and want to present a ccurate "feel" for the perid, even if I not equipped to provide an accurate representaiton of the substance.

I have only just begun studying the Talmud, and while I have studied some medieval Jewish philosophers like Maimonides and Sa'adia ben Joseph, their thinking isn't going to accurately represent Jewish thought during the time of Moses either. 

That said, the game takes place in a relatively early time period, and makes the in-game assumption that the events and conditions that led to the conquest of Caanan, the compilation of the Talmud, Christianity, the rise of the Roman Empire, etc. are not preordained. In certain cases, Biblical personalities are going to have different personalities, or not exist at all. In game, the worship of the Lord might not become dominant in the region. 
All of that could easily be troubling or offensive to a believing Jew or Christian, and, in fact, did cause me to hesitate a while before posting the ideafor this game. If you think it, or the lack of historical/religious accuracy, would bother you enough to limit your enjoyment of the game, this may not be the best game for you. If you don't think that's the case, I'd love to have you, and I'll draw upon your knowledge mercilessly until you run away screaming in terror


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## Ghostknight (Jun 10, 2004)

Glad to hear it!

On the character type I would like to play - I have a couple of concepts in mind-

1)a sorcerer versed in the Kaballah (Jewish mysticism) strikes me as a good one.  He would present himself as a learned man, not using his magic unless it was in the cause of saving life - also, all magic would be seen as coming from God and invoked via God's name (all spells would have a verbal compnent and he could not take the still spell feat.)

2) A descendant of Benjamin, more comfortable herding sheep and playing the flute than with debating religion.  Effectively he is a ranger, comfortable in nature and enjoying a special bond with his flock, but chosen to represent the tribe as a spy due to his knowledge of tracking and skills in moving unnoticed. 

3) A ger (convert) from Egypt who joined the Israelites to worship in the desert.  He has seen the miracles, and is a fanatical believer and follower of Moses.  Before he was a slavemaster, happily abusing many whom he now pays deference to.  Struggling for acceptance he has presented himself to the people, begging for the chance to prove himself by going as a spy to find the dangers ahead of them.  (A rogue based character)

So, which of the above do you feel most appropriate for your envisaged campaign?

 (and don;t worry about offending me - I can tell the difference between game reality and normal reality!)

As for flaws- are thes RP based or based on items out of the book (if out of the book please suggest some to me for the above concepts - don't worry about the mechanics behind them - I would prefer to create an interesting character instead).


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> Glad to hear it!



Excellent! Welcome abaord 

I'm considering recommending character #3, just because i can see some excellent roleplaying possibilities right off the bat, but any of those would work.  The Kaballist wouldn't suffer socailly as much as a standard sorcerer would, but there might still be some issues  



> As for flaws- are thes RP based or based on items out of the book (if out of the book please suggest some to me for the above concepts - don't worry about the mechanics behind them - I would prefer to create an interesting character instead).



The flaws are purely roleplaying based - you can decide entirely how much they are a part of the character's personality.  They just can't be ignored completely.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

humble minion said:
			
		

> Questions (until I can get my hands on the book, probably on the weekend):
> - Is prophet a base or prestige class? I'm getting mixed messages from various places. If prestige, what are the prerequisites, and would this character be possible?



Prophet is a prestige class. Prereqs: BAB +4. Piety >0. Diplomacy 6, Knowledge (dreams) 1, Knowledge (religion) 8. Feats: Dreamer

So, based on BAB and skill ranks, you couln't quite make it yet, but could be wel on your way and have received a confused vision or two 

- Are there modifications to the ranger in Testament, especially re spellcasting, two-weapon fighting, fighting styles, and other 'high-fantasy' elements?
There are no modifications to standard classes listed in the book. I'm contemplating som revisions, but haven't made any so far. Likely, the spell list wil be changed, at the least. I'm taking suggestions 

- Penalties for multiclassing?
No - But keep it within reason. I may require time of from adventuring to make drastic changes. Your enxisages switch from Ranger to prophet seems reasonable though.

- 3e or 3.5?
I don't have the revised books, and unfortunately this very basic question hadn't even ocurred to me  . Testament was written before 3.5, and therefore conforms to 3.0. I'm tempted to run 3.0, because of that and because of familiarity. If a majority strongly prefers 3.5, I'll do the SRD thing, though. Let me know, everyone.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> A word on Nazirites - the vow according to Halachah (Jewish Law), the vow MUST be for a limited time as the vow itself requires the foregoing of things required by Halachah. Thus the sacrifice brought at the end of the period is actually a sin offering for failing to do those things. (Particularly if married the Nazirite has failed in his marital obligations as it is a husbands duty to ensure his wife's sexual needs are fulfilled- NOT the other way round!).



Thanks, Ghostknight - that had been my half-remembered understanding too, but was going with the material printed in the game book. Lets use the more authentic version.

For Tonguez: 
Nazirite (Mythic)
Benefit: The character gains +8 to one ability score for the duration of the Nazirite vow, typically a period of years. For the duration of the vow, the character must not consume wine or any other product of the grape, must allow his hair to grow, must not cut his hair, must not enter any covered structure within which lies a dead body, or defile himself for any dead person by being in the presence of the corpse. If the Nazirite breaks any of these commandments, or if his piety falls below 10, he immediate loses all benefits of this feat until he undergoes an _Atonement_. 

A Nazirite suffers twice the normal piey penalty for sins he commits. This penalty remains in effect even if he loses the benefits of being a nazirite by breaking one of the commandments or falling below 10 piety. It is removed if the Nazirite end his vow by sacrificing to the Lord and the end of his vow's duration. 

At the end of his period of Naziriteship, he shall shave his hair and make a substantial offering to the Lord. After the vow ends and the Nazirite has sacrificed to the Lord, he may choose another, non-mythic, feat which he was otherwise qualified to take, as a replacement feat.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 10, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> Excellent! Welcome abaord
> 
> I'm considering recommending character #3, just because i can see some excellent roleplaying possibilities right off the bat, but any of those would work.  The Kaballist wouldn't suffer socailly as much as a standard sorcerer would, but there might still be some issues
> 
> ...




Ok, concept three it is.  His flaw would basicly be around his fanatacism.  He sees Moses and Aaron as the ONLY authorities- others that speak must be weighed against them, and if necessary dealt with.  

I'll try to get some stats up tomorrow - One Egyptian Rogue coming up!


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## Cannibal_Kender (Jun 10, 2004)

Going to have to bow out due to summer classes.

Games looks interesting though, and I'll definately read it to see how it turns out.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

Sorry to hear that, CK. Good luck in classes 


Okay, we now have:

Tonguez: Tsedeq (Ftr4), a massive and warlike Danite defender of the people.

Humble Minion: _______ Rgr4?,

Ghostknight: ________ Rog4, the fanatic Egyptian convert. 

Andrew D Gable: Asenath (Spy4), the quick tempered daughter of the Naphtali tribe, and mother of 6 year-old Miriam.

Yangnome:  still working.


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## yangnome (Jun 10, 2004)

Don't forget me.  I'm still waffling on my character concept, but I did go pick up the book today.  I'll give it a read through and hopefully post concept and stats by tomorrow.  

As for system, 3.0 is fine....or if everyone else prefers, 3.5  To be honest, I'm more concerned about feel of the game rather than the system we use.  I too would prefer a grim/gritty/Epic game of Biblical proportion.  I am also happy to see ghostknight joining up.  He? should add an interesting perspective to the game.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> Don't forget me. I'm still waffling on my character concept, but I did go pick up the book today. I'll give it a read through and hopefully post concept and stats by tomorrow.
> 
> As for system, 3.0 is fine....or if everyone else prefers, 3.5 To be honest, I'm more concerned about feel of the game rather than the system we use. I too would prefer a grim/gritty/Epic game of Biblical proportion. I am also happy to see ghostknight joining up. He? should add an interesting perspective to the game.



DOH!

Sorry Yangnome!

Didn't mean to leave you off!  As we're full after all, we're set to go as soon as characters are done and *minor* issues like the edition of rules we're using are set


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## yangnome (Jun 10, 2004)

BTW, I'm looking into playing a Levite Priest.  I may or may not change my mind, but this is what I'm leaning towards...


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 10, 2004)

Sounds good, Yangnome.  Let me know if you need anything.

BTW, I'll try to post the piety rules, or at least a condensation of them for those of you without the book.

The book lists various sins, and the amount of piety you lose for committing each.  (The lists vary based on culture.)  I'm also trying to come up with a chart of sample affirmative _mitzvot_ and the amount of piety gained for each, since the specifics an how to gain piety are somewhat lacking in the book.


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## humble minion (Jun 11, 2004)

Well, because of the high rank requirements in cross-class skills, going from ranger to prophet would be very slow, and if the prophet prestige class gives spellcasting advancement only in an existing class, it's hardly worth the trouble.  

 I'll put my character choice on hold for a bit - I should be able to get hold of the book tomorrow, and I'll have a good look through it then and decide what I'm going to do.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 11, 2004)

Since I don't know the rules for piety I cannot specify how these would affect it, but here are some affirmative mitzvot (don't know what are in the book so probably will double up on what is there)


Tzitzit - fringes on the corner of a four cornered garment - one thread of "tchelet" a shade of blue
Tzedakah - giving charity, highest form is giving somebody a livelihood, followed by neither giver nor receiver knowing each  other down to giving unwillingly after being asked
Tefillin - I think the english for these is "phylacteries", put on in the morning during the morning prayers
Assisting a widow/orphan/sick etc with a livelihood
Blessings said before eating foods - different ones for each category although some foods like grape products and bread have specific blessings
Visiting the sick
Visiting the bereaved
Praying three times a day (morning must be within two hours of sunrise), afternoon and evening (often done back to back to make it easier to gather people together)
Afficing a mezuzah to the doorposts of your home
Taking the first fruits to the temple
Taking the first of the harvest to the temple
Helping to prepare a dead body for burial
Helping to bury a body
Sitting with a corpse overnight when necessary

I have only used items that are positive commandments - in other words not doing them is not a sin.  There are more - but the list could get really long!

Yanghome - something for you to consider in your history.  A levite priest is properly termed a Kohen and is a descendant of Aaron.  The sons of Aaron born in Egypt had to do some deed before becoming a Kohen, those born after Egypt and all the descendants automatically became Kohenim (plural of Kohen)

As to game version - I lean towards 3.5 purely because my 3.0 books have been given away!  :\


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 11, 2004)

Piety:  a score reflecting how well a character has honored the tenets of his religion.  A pious person may receive boons or miracles, an impious person may be cursed.

Once per game session, the character with a positive piety score can ask for a boon from his god.  Samples include:  increasing hit points or healing damage, smiting evil, improving saving throws, improving skill checks, or receiving the benefit of a divination spell.  

Characters with negative piety may become the victims of a _bestow curse, _or worse.  

All characters begin play with a piety of 0.  There is no lower limit to piety, but the maximum upper limit is the character's wisdom score +1.

Characters gain and lose piety based on their actions.  As the characters in this party are all Israelites, I'm only going to list actions pertaining to them.  These lists are not nearly exhaustive.

*Sample Major Sins (-5 piety or greater)*
Premeditated Murder
Sacrificing a human
Using arcane magic (actually, this is -1/spell level)
Having positive contact with a devil or foreign god
Raising, Animating, or consorting with the dead
Publicly worshipping a false or foreign god

*Sample Sins (-2 to -4)*
Rape
Swearing a false oath
Dishonoringand/or striking one's parents
Causing another to sin to stumble
Privately worshipping a foreign god
Teaching children falsely
Theft
Cheating and employee of wages
Breaking the Sabbath
Knowingly drinking blood or eating part of a live animal
Adultery
Kidnapping
carving a graven image to be worshipped
Marrying a Gentile

*Sample Minor Sins (-1)*
Inhospitality
Failing to instruct your son in the Lord's laws
Failong to teach your how to earn a living
Knowingly eating unclean animals
Tattooing self/being willingly tattooed
Vandalism
Insulting a priest or prophet
Weilding a weapon on consecrated ground
Trimming one's beard at the corners
To give charity to an extent that your family suffers
Transvestism

*Sample Blessings (Positive changes to piety)*

General Religious Observance 
Minimal:  Observes major holidays, endeavors to follow commandments in public
Common:  Observes most holidays, follows major commandments in public and private, sets aside time each year for religious study
Uncommon:  Observes all holidays, follows all major, and most minor commandments, even in private, and sets aside time each month for religious study
Diligent:  As uncommon, but with even more effort to follow all commandments, and setting aside time for study eah week.

Marying another Israelite
Having a child
Tsedekah (Giving charity)
Visiting the sick or bereaved
Helping prepare a body for a funeral
Helping bury a body
Sitting with a body overnight
Protecting innocent life at a cost to self
Publicly rebuking a sinner at cost to self
Relieving a neighbor's burden
Destroying idols
Sacrificing to the Lord

Temptations:
By Sacrificing 1 point of piety, a chracter may gain a 1 time +4 to any one in-game roll (not during character genreation or levelling up, for example).

By taking a -2 penalty to Piety, a chracter may attempt to give another the Evil Eye (-2 to all saves for a day or more, or until a remove curse)

By taking a -4 penalty to piety, a character may curse in the manner of the Egyptians by fashioning a wax figure of the victim and burning it.  This figure is called an _isefet,_ and it's victim suffers a -2 on all saves and hit rolls until a remove curse is applied.

Ghostknight - what do you think the obligations of Israelites at this time (pre-Temple, also before much interaction with Canaan) would have been to non Jews, in terms of charity and other commandments, for example? The party may be spending a lot of time away from home.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 12, 2004)

Hmm, I find some of these categories a bit wrong from the Jewish way of thinking.  

In the major sins categories I would include all the following as these are the ONLY things one cannot do to save a life

Murder, Sexual immorality (specifically adultery, bestiality, incest, anal sex), bow down to idols and deliverately publicly break a sin to profane the name of God.  Anything else goes if it is in order to save a life.

The commandments did not vary much pre-Temple.  The main issue really being that with the temple sacrifices could only be offered there rather than elsewhere.  Charity is not mandatory towards non-Jews, but is considered exemplary behavior, especially if it brings a non-Jew to bless God (not become a Jew necessarily).

In terms of the other commandments it would vary, especially when the oyther person is an idol worshipper (normally referenced to Baal, but would apply to any of the ancient idol worshipping cultures).  Generally the Torah is VERY negative about those cultures, stating that they as a rule were not honest or trustworthy and one is not obligated to behave in such a manner towards them, especially if it would provide them an advantage.  For non-idol worshipping cultures the rule is different but I do not know of any ancient civilisations at the time that this would apply to.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 13, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> Hmm, I find some of these categories a bit wrong from the Jewish way of thinking.
> 
> In the major sins categories I would include all the following as these are the ONLY things one cannot do to save a life



The book actually makes that clear, though i forgot to include it when typing - all but those activities you listed can be undertaken without penalty to piety in order to save a human life.

Also, 5 points or more varies quite a bit, with murder costing -10, for example. The non-piety based penalties prescribed also vary, from fine and recompense, to ostracism, to death, for example, such that sins with the same piety penalties may have very different earthly consequences within the community.

I don't mind altering some of the book-given values forthe sins; but I need to come up with something that is analogous to the way the piety system works with the other cultures presented in the book. 




> The commandments did not vary much pre-Temple. The main issue really being that with the temple sacrifices could only be offered there rather than elsewhere. Charity is not mandatory towards non-Jews, but is considered exemplary behavior, especially if it brings a non-Jew to bless God (not become a Jew necessarily).
> 
> In terms of the other commandments it would vary, especially when the oyther person is an idol worshipper (normally referenced to Baal, but would apply to any of the ancient idol worshipping cultures). Generally the Torah is VERY negative about those cultures, stating that they as a rule were not honest or trustworthy and one is not obligated to behave in such a manner towards them, especially if it would provide them an advantage.



Gotcha. Would that be true of commandments concerning things like murder and theft, as well? Practically, I'm just trying to get an idea of how the party will be expected to behave as they wander amongst a land poulated almost entirely by idolaters 



> For non-idol worshipping cultures the rule is different but I do not know of any ancient civilisations at the time that this would apply to.



On this last point, Zoroastrianism would certainly qualify; not sure if the party will be spending much time in Babylon/Persia, though, and at this time in history, was a rather upstart religion anyway.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 13, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> The book actually makes that clear, though i forgot to include it when typing - all but those activities you listed can be undertaken without penalty to piety in order to save a human life.




Umm, no.  The ones I listed are the only ones that cannot be done to save a life.  Evrythihg else is AALOWED to save a life.  Thus I would see all of those in the top list of penalties as not "allowed under any circumstances"type of sins whereas the rest can be put in abeyance if it is to save a life.  Othetr than that I have no issue with the way the game handles it - it is a game and mechanics are necessary 



			
				Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> Gotcha. Would that be true of commandments concerning things like murder and theft, as well? Practically, I'm just trying to get an idea of how the party will be expected to behave as they wander amongst a land poulated almost entirely by idolaters




A difficult situation.  Don't forgot the Jewish understanding is "DO not Murder", not "Do not kill".  SO a soldier in wartime can kill, a person can kill in self defense etc.  I would imagine that a spy, as operating for the betterment of the nation would be able to kill IF necessary.  Arbitary murder would never be OK.

Theft is again a very muddy area.  Property rights of idol worshippers were held as being less than binding - so if a lost item is found that in an area idol worshipper and it would belong to one of them, then it is not necessary to seek the person out to return it, whereas if it is in a Jewish area the reverse holds.  That said, it would NOT be ok to arbitarily help yourself to anything you feel like just because it belongs to idol qorshippers!



			
				Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> On this last point, Zoroastrianism would certainly qualify; not sure if the party will be spending much time in Babylon/Persia, though, and at this time in history, was a rather upstart religion anyway.




True, but as you say Zaroastianism was still a very new and on the horizon religion, nowhere near the influece it would have later.


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## yangnome (Jun 14, 2004)

I just wanted to let you know I am still working on my character.  Its been a busy week with work, famil yand finals for school all taking my time.  I thought I was going to get a break Friday to get the character together, but it turned out my wife got hte day off and stayed home with my daughter ( = no time for me to slack and work on game stuff  )  The big assignments in my classes will be done tomorrow evening, so I should have a chance to get teh darn character done.  I would just slap something together, but would prefer to put some htought in to the character first.  I like to build my stats around a background and I just haven't had time to get that together yet.  If you are getting tired of waiting for me, I understand.  Feel free to dump me and bring in another player.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 14, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> Feel free to dump me and bring in another player.



Three things:

Real Life takes precedence over gaming stuff
A well conceived character is better than a series of stats.
We've only got two characters posted anyway, so far.

Everyone, do your best, and we'll start when we're all ready, including me.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 15, 2004)

*First pass at character*

Ok, here is the first pass at my character.  He still needs equipment and a bit of detail but I want to check you are happy with the concept and other details as they stand.

Avram ben Yisroel

Male Human
Rogue
Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Str: 12 (+1) [4 points] 
Dex: 16 (+3) [8 points +1level]
Con: 14 (+2) [6 points] 
Int: 14 (+2) [6 points] 
Wis: 10 (+0) [2 points] 
Cha: 14 (+2) [6 points] 

Class Abilties:


Hit Dice: 4d6
HP: 26
AC: 1 (+3 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 17
Init: +3 (+3 Dex)
Speed: 30ft

Saves:
Fortitude +3 [+1 base +2 Con]
Reflex +7 [+4 base, +3 Dex]
Will +3 [+1 base, +2 Iron Will]

BAB/Grapple: +3/+4
Melee Atk: +6 Whip, 1d3 +1 dmg OR +6 Short Sword 1d6 +1 dmg

Skills:
Move silently  10 (7 ranks +3 Dex)
Hide 9 (6 ranks +3 Dex)
Intimidate 9 (7 ranks +2 Cha)
Bluff 6 (4 ranks +2 cha)
Knowledge (religion) 1 (2 Ranks) CC
Knowledge (architecture) 1 (2 Ranks) cc
Sense Motive 4 (4 Ranks)
Balance 6 (3 ranks + 3 Dex)
Open lock 6 (3 ranks + 3 Dex)
Appraise 5 (3 ranks +2 int)
Disable Device 6 (3 ranks + 3dex)
Disguise 6 (4 ranks, +2 Cha)
Escape Artist 6 (3 ranks + 3 Dex)
Tumble 6 (3 ranks + 3 Dex)
Diplomacy 6 (4 ranks, +2 Cha)
Spot 3 (3 Ranks) 
Search 6 (4 ranks +2 int)
Gather Information 7 (5 +2 Int)
Climb 6 (3 ranks + 3 Dex)

Feats:Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip), Weapon Finesse, Iron will

Weapon Proficiencies: Simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Light armor


Special Abilities Sneak Attack +2d6, Trapfinding, Trapsense, Evasion, Uncanny dodge

Languages: Egyptian, Hebrew Rank 2

Equipment: 


Money: gp, sp, cp


Appearance: His black hair has been cropped short to the skull to remove his previous, very obvious, Egyptian style hair cut.  He typically dresses in a robe covering his body, belted at the waist with tzit-tzit at all corners.  His black eyes fade into the darkness of his face, deepset with prominent eyebrows above.


Background: Avram was born Sulei ibn Geria.  His father was one of the forman on the building of the city of Pithom for Pharoah.  He grew up around the hebrew slaves - delighting in tormenting them and giving orders to those much older than himself - yet another humiliation for the jewish slaves.  When old enough he was apprenticed to his father and started work as a slave master in the building of the city, spending with the master architect and learning his trade.

Like others, he laughed at the coming of Moses, seeing an ineffectual Egyptian Prince that had fallen out of favor and making a play for power over the slaves.  But the coming plagues shook him.  Especially when the court magicians were no longer able  to emulate the miracles that this God of Moses seemed capable off.  The dying of the cattle, and the fiery hail from the sky convinced him that whomever thos God was that Moses and the hebrews called on, he was surely more powerful than any of the Egyptian Gods!

So he went to the land of Goshen, to the camps of the tribe of Manasseh, hoping that these descendents of an Egyptian minister would listen to him.  He wandered the land, begging them to teach him and take him in, but some recognised him and chased him away.  It was in the tribe of Judah that he finally found succour.  An elderly man, Amir ben Shedrach haYehuda, 
one whom he had once ridiculed, took him in and taught him of this God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of the Children of Israel.  He changed his name to Avram, to honor the patriarch but not having the hubris to take the name given to the patriarch by God, and called his father Israel, forsaking all ties to his Egyptian heritage and family.  

As the ninth plague of Darkness descended, he walked in the light with the rest of the faithful Jews, and as his teacher had no family of his own, when it came time to offer the Pascal sacrifice he went out, got a lamb, and slaughtered it for them both, smearing the blood on their doorpost - a final, and complete, break with his past - slaughtering a creature that previously had been his God.

In the morning he left with the Israelites, hastily packing his few possessions onto a cart, pulling bread not yet ready from the oven, put Amir onto a cart and joined the rest in moving off to worship.  He saw his grieving parents on the way, his eldest brother one of the victims of the miracle of the previous night, but he held his head high, marching off without looking back.

At the sea he watched as the armies of Pharoah drowned, he had seen the Egyptian Gods defeated by Hashem, now he saw their physical might drowned and knew that with Hashem the Children of Israel could never loose!


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## Tonguez (Jun 15, 2004)

I like the story of Avram ben Yisroel
a question - who is Hashem? (I assume a name for Moses?) 
and is Yisroel = Israel? 
(and Avram ben Yisroel would be anglicised to Abram ben Israel?)


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## Ghostknight (Jun 16, 2004)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> I like the story of Avram ben Yisroel
> a question - who is Hashem? (I assume a name for Moses?)
> and is Yisroel = Israel?
> (and Avram ben Yisroel would be anglicised to Abram ben Israel?)




Thanks.

Hashem id the hebrew for God.  

The rest you are correct on


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 16, 2004)

Great characters so far, guys!

Ghostknight - we won't be using alignment.  Piety takes its place

Just so you all know, I'm leaning towards handling piety changes "behind the screen" so to speak.  If you don't have definite knowledge about what your piety score is, praying for aid, decding to risk temptation become less about number crunching, and more suggestive of faith, I think.  Objections?


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## humble minion (Jun 16, 2004)

Sorry about my absence from this thread recently.  I'm currently in the middle of moving house, so I've got a lot on my plate at the moment.  Hopefully things will have largely returned to normal by next week.  In answer to questions raised earlier, I also like the idea of the gritty/mythic game style, and I have no problems with piety changes being handled out of player knowledge.

Well, I finally got hold of the book - the last unsold copy in southern Australia as far as I can tell.

Tempting as it is to base an entire character around the rather embarrassing typo on page 185 , I'm leaning towards going with my initial character concept, the reluctant prophet.  A few questions though:

- In order to reach the skill requirements for the prophet class without having to wait until level 10 or something, I'm going to have to multiclass from ranger to Levite priest.  My in-character rationale behind this is that when he started having prophetic dreams (ie, when he took the Dreamer feat at 3rd level), he realised that he was being called to duty by YHWH and began treating his religious studies and obligations more seriously than he had previously.  Is this a plausible history for a priest?  He will not be a member of the tribe of Levy - perhaps Asher or Judah (is there any difference, from a roleplaying point of view?)
- I'm looking to make him a middle-aged character, using the appropriate ability modifiers for his age applied after his stats have been generated.  Is this ok?
- My concept of his was very much an outsider - not someone who has a great deal to do with the warriors and rulers of Israelite society, instead dwelling on the fringes and being somewhat looked down upon by the more urbane priests and the wealthy.  I was originally thinking to make him a hunter, but as animals killed in this way are unclean as a food source, this is perhaps not realistic.  I could decide that he hunts for pelts and to protect livestock from dangerous predators, but I'm not sure if this would be enough as a sole source of income.  What would be another rough, low-status occupation that he could work at, that would not disqualify him from the priesthood?  I was thinking gravedigger, stonecutter or woodcutter, but any comments or suggestions from the more knowledgable people here would be very welcome.  Also, if all Levite priests at this time are descendants of Aaron, is it plausible that one of Aaron's line (Aaron is still alive, kicking, and second-in-command at this stage) has such a lowly occupation?
- How are we going to handle the requirement that Levite priests sacrifice livestock at the Temple or Tabernacle to regain spell slots, if the campaign involves wandering all over Canaan?
- Regarding the 3e/3.5e issue, I'd lean towards 3.5e (simply because it makes my ranger levels more powerful! ) but I am happy to go with the majority decision.  I won't be taking enough ranger levels for spellcasting to be an issue, but even if we do end up playing 3e, I'd like to use the 3.5e archery combat style in place of the two-weapon fighting style.  I just think it fits the mood and gritty style of Testament better than dual-wielding does.

Sorry for the long and rather interrogative post - looking forward to getting all this stuff out of the way and starting the game properly!


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 16, 2004)

humble minion said:
			
		

> Sorry about my absence from this thread recently. I'm currently in the middle of moving house, so I've got a lot on my plate at the moment. Hopefully things will have largely returned to normal by next week. In answer to questions raised earlier, I also like the idea of the gritty/mythic game style, and I have no problems with piety changes being handled out of player knowledge.
> 
> Well, I finally got hold of the book - the last unsold copy in southern Australia as far as I can tell.
> 
> ...



Middle aged is fine - so long is he his still spry enough to be a reasonable logical choice to be sent on missions for the people  

As far as the multiclassing goes, it's fine game-wise, but I'm not sure it works with the way priests were trained at the time, especially given your character concept, which is cool, but not neccesarily compatible with being a kohein. Also, regarding your tribe.   Aaron and Moses were of the Tribe of Levi - if your character is closely related to Aaron, then he is a Levite as well.  A kohein at the time would have been a member of the Levites. (Ghostknight can fill us in if my understanding on these points is incorrect.)

If you want him to be a Levite, you can go with what you've posted, but might have to make the hunting/outsider thing part of his past, rather than his present.  

If you don't want him to be a Levite, or want to keep him as an outsider in the present,  I'm tempted to let you trade a couple of ranger class skills in return for ones you'd need for prophet - if that's something you'd want to explore.  If you don't multiclass to Levite priest first, you still gains spell casting levels (only) as a Levite priest as a prophet when you join that class.
Archery instead of two weapon fighting is fine by me.  Might consider using the 3.5e ranger even if we go with 3.0, depending on balance (I used Monte's 3.0 ranger in my last D&D campaign.  The ranger has always been troublesome :sighs: )  I'll work with you.

Hunting and protection would be enough to live one, but remember that you are all with a group of nomads in the desert right now, living on manna, etc.  Survival is the key right now - not much going on in the way of stoneworking, etc.  

To regain spell slots, my current thinking is that a priest would need to make sacrifices at an altar - constructing and blessing one himself, if necessary because there is no altar to the Lord nearby.  Again, I'll ask Ghostknight to comment here.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 17, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> As far as the multiclassing goes, it's fine game-wise, but I'm not sure it works with the way priests were trained at the time, especially given your character concept, which is cool, but not neccesarily compatible with being a kohein. Also, regarding your tribe.   Aaron and Moses were of the Tribe of Levi - if your character is closely related to Aaron, then he is a Levite as well.  A kohein at the time would have been a member of the Levites. (Ghostknight can fill us in if my understanding on these points is incorrect.)
> 
> To regain spell slots, my current thinking is that a priest would need to make sacrifices at an altar - constructing and blessing one himself, if necessary because there is no altar to the Lord nearby.  Again, I'll ask Ghostknight to comment here.




On the above - All Kohen's are descendants of Aaron - if one of his sons born before leaving Egypt- then they needed to do something extraordinary to become a Kohen, if born after leaving Egypt they automatically became Kohenim as did the descendants of all his sons, regardless of status.  (An example of a deed which got one son his staus was the stabbing through of the prince of Simeon when consorting with a Midianite women by Pinchas).  The rest of the tribe of Levi became the bearers of the ark, choir, any other tasks that was required for maintianing the ark and accroutements but not directly the responsibility of the Kohenim.  The rest of Israel were the menial labour involved (the eldest son being sent to work for the levites unless they were "redeemed" by their father, usually done a month after birth with two silver shekalim- and yep, we still do this today in rememberance of our duty, usually with a set of coins we have specially made, give to a Kohen, and he customarily gives the coins back as a gift for the baby).

As for sacrificing - yep, until the uilding of the temple a Kohe would use any nearby one or construct oine himself (In the times of the prophets before the building of the temple there were some semi-permanent alters such as the one Samuel's mother prays at and is blessed by Eli at).

As a bit of a background note for your character history if you go with a Levite - the Mishnah (Oral law) notes that while the rest of the Children of Israel went to work (initially it was billed as a voluntary public works program, then it got changed into slavery), the Levites did not, as they stayed to study Hashem's laws and to increase their knowledge about Hashem (at that stage a few laws from Abraham and the Seven Noahide laws), and never actually worked as slaves - though the dercrees against the Jews applied to them as well.  So a Levite character would not have a history of being a slave personally, but would have one of being part of an enslaved nation.


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## yangnome (Jun 17, 2004)

If humble minion is going to play a levite priest, I'll likely need to choose something else.  I don't see two priests in the party being very effective, especially on the spy mission.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 17, 2004)

Yangnome - I agree that the party probably doesn't need two priests. Given that, however, a full priest, rather than a multiclassed one, might be most effective. 

Humble minion, what are your thoughts?


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## yangnome (Jun 17, 2004)

BTW, I have no problem if HM wants to play the priest role.  I'd happily play the priest, or happily play some other role.  I don't want to sound pissy, I just want to make sure we make an effective party.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 17, 2004)

Thanks yangnome.  My thinking, though, is that hm's original cenception was ranger/prophet, which I don't mind helping him make happen if he's interested.  You two can decide amongst yourselves, though


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## humble minion (Jun 18, 2004)

I'd much prefer to go the ranger/prophet route, which will involve some minor priestly spellcasting, but not enough to seriously threaten yangnome's character role in the party.  Not that I've ever been involved in any D&Desque game in which another priest would not have been useful, mind you!  But my intent to take levels of priest was entirely as a metagaming attempt to qualify for the prophet prestige class.  I don't want to step on any toes here, so I'll probably take Maerdwyn up on his suggestion that we negotiate some modifications on the ranger so that I can qualify for prophet without having to  resort to a ridiculously convoluted background to make it work.  

 Anyway, I'm likely to be incommunicado for a couple of days (moving house, yuk!) so I won't be around here.  In the mean time, any suggestions on possible ranger variants, Maerdwyn?  The crucial points are the requirement to have Knowledge (religion) and Diplomacy as class skills, and, less significant, my personal preference to lose the two-weapon fighting stuff.  Since I'll be going ranger to 5th level in this case, we'll also need to think about how ranger spellcasting is handled, if it indeed exists.  Your call, anyway - so long as it's vaguely functional, I'm happy.

 Be back next week.  See you then.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 18, 2004)

In Rokugan, there is following feat:

*VERSATILE [General]
*Choose any two related, non-exclusive skills. You have a special interest in those skills.
*Benefit:* The two skills you select are always treated as class skills.
*Special:* You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to two new skills.

That hasn't been updated to 3.5, but since I think we'll be playing mostly 3.0, that's not  really an issue.  This feat could be taken by any character (not just humble minion's), with pror approval by me of the skills you make class skills, and the prestige class (if any) you will be pursuing with those skills.

Other changes to the ranger - I'm still considering these.  Probably do one of the following:

1) Restrict the spell list to things that can be explained away as skills (i.e., he doesn't cast "Cure Light Wounds", but is rather very very good at herbal healing.  Unfortunately, he can only find enough herbs for a couple applications in a day, and they lose their potency after a day, so they can't be stored up.)
2) grant other abilities, i.e. Trackless Step at 4th level.

To those of you who have played 3.5e:  What do you thing the feasibility of allowing the 3.5 ranger amongst other 3.0 classes would be, in terms of game balance, etc.?


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## yangnome (Jun 18, 2004)

I don't see any balance issues in letting the 3.5 ranger into a 3.0 game.  My tabletop game is still running 3.0, but I have allowed players to choose if they wish to update their character or not.  It hasn't created any big issues.  The only place I could see an issue would be in the case of spell casters/spells, but those are heavily restricted by Testament anyway.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 19, 2004)

On 3.5 vs 3.0- the issue is not so much in changes to the characters/ but some of thechanges in spells etc.  A 3.5 Ranger should not be a significant challenge in a 3.0 game.

In terms of variants there is a variant non-spellcasting ranger in Unearthed Arcana, I will post details on Monday- I have loaned my book out!

Cheers


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## Ghostknight (Jun 20, 2004)

A question on equipping characters - how do we equip our starting characters - are magic items etc still available in this setting or not?  DO we need to reowrk magic items so for example would tzitzit of protection be better than a cloak of protection?  Do magic weapons exist or should they be "holy" i.e. bonuses from sacred/profane sources?

What special materials (if any) are avialble?  About the only clearcut element is that masterwork items are easily explained!

Thanks


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## yangnome (Jun 20, 2004)

Also, how do you want us to generate HP?


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## yangnome (Jun 21, 2004)

OK, here's an initial post for my character.  I still need to choose a feat and do a couple other things like equipment.  I also still need to work on my background.  what I've posted is more like a journal entry, trying to feel out his personality.  if this doesn't gel with the campaign, or if it doesn't gel with the times, please let me know.

Ghostknight, I have a question about his background/family.  Assuming he is a Kohenin, descended from Aaron, considering its only been 30 years or so since leaving egypt, how many offspring does Aaron have?  Its been awhile since my Old Testament survey class, and while I had an excellent instructor, my mind is really fuzzy on the details.  Anyhting that will help me draw a good background and family history would be appreciated.

Caleb
Levite Priest 4

STR 10
CON 14 (+2)
DEX 12 (+1)
INT 15 (+2)
WIS 16 (+3)
CHA 12 (+1)

Hit Points: 24 / 24
Initiative: +1 (+1 Dex)
AC: 11 (+1 Dex)
Attacks: Staff + 3 melee, damage .. ( .. ); sling + 4 ranged, damage 1d4
Fort Save: +4
Ref Save: +1 
Will Save: +4
Piety: 0 / 30
Flaw: Fanatic
Domains: Law, Protection
Flaw: Fanatic
Languages: Hebrew 
Skills: Concentration 6 (+2), Craft 3, Diplomacy 6 (+1), Heal 3 (+1), Intimidate 7 (+1), Knowledge (religion) 7 (+2), Perform 4 (+1), Profession, Sense Motive 6 (+3), Spellcraft
Feats: Pious, Turning Spell, ..
Equipment: Staff, sling w/ 10 stones, Priest’s outfit

XP: 6,000 / 10,000
28 years old, 5'8", 132 lbs.

I was born a couple years after God freed our people from the bonds of the Egyptians.  I was fortunate enough to be born into the Levite tribe.  I was chosen from my birth to do God’s bidding.  There are many who don’t want these duties, or would rather be free to follow their own whims, but for me, there is nothing I’d rather do.

Since I was young, I’ve been instructed in God’s teachings.  I was told of the miracles that led to our freedom from the tyranny that was Egypt; the locust swarms, how the rivers turned to blood and the death God’s angels reaped upon the land of the pharaohs.  I was told of the parting sea, where the waters opened up so that we, God’s chosen people could flee the pursuing slavers and how the waters then swallowed those who’s goal was to enslave us once again.  God’s gifts to us have been plentiful.

Despite God’s grace and these wondrous displays of might, there are those among us, many whom even witnessed these miracles first hand, who now turn their backs upon God.  These people saw God’s power with their own eyes, received the food He sent from the Heavens, yet they now doubt his existence and cry that he has abandoned us.  Now they turn to false gods, the gods of those below us.  They create golden calves and offer sacrifices to them.  It makes me sick.  All of the grace that god has shown us, yet they turn their backs upon him.  

My own sister Sarah gave her jewelry to melt into an idol!  We who have received blessing upon countless blessing now turn our backs on the one who has freed us.  I will no longer tolerate this.  Those that bear false worship, those that look towards the heathens for spiritual guidance will suffer my wrath.  The demons that possess these misguided fools will be banished in His name by my hand.  I will seek out the idolaters and the heathens that tempt them and I will drive them from the earth.  The Lord frees us, yet they once again beg for slavery, they once again beg for punishment from Him.  Only strict guidance from those in my position can aid in turning us from this fate.  By my word, I will do what the Lord has asked me to.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 21, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> A question on equipping characters - how do we equip our starting characters - are magic items etc still available in this setting or not? DO we need to rework magic items so for example would tzitzit of protection be better than a cloak of protection? Do magic weapons exist or should they be "holy" i.e. bonuses from sacred/profane sources?
> 
> What special materials (if any) are avialble? About the only clearcut element is that masterwork items are easily explained!
> 
> Thanks



Longish answer to this.

There are magic weapons - most of the cultures of this era have no problem with using arcane magic to construct them. By contrast, the Israelites have few actual priests, and those they have aren't spending much time or energy on making weapons - maybe a few, but not on the whole. True magic items are very rare indeed among the Israelites. Enhanced weapons are a little more common (throughor the region, actually, not just among Israelites.)

When I ran a Celtic campaign in which sorcerors were hunted, we used this feat (as well as leveled weapons) to explain the magic items present in the setting. I was mor a behind-the-scenes system, rather than one meant for PC use, but it's available if you want it:

*Forge Enhanced Arms and Armor* [Item Creation]
Prerequisite: Knowledge (Metallurgy): 4 ranks. Craft (Weaponsmith): 9 Ranks and/or Craft (Armorer): 9 Ranks. 

Benefit: The character can create any magic weapon, armor, or shield whose
Enhancement bonus is equal to or less than the character's Knowledge
(Metallurgy) rank divided by 4. To craft a magic weapon or piece of armor, the
character must first (personally) smelt the alloys to be used for the weapon from raw materials costing 1/2 the finished item's gp value. Because of the opportunity cost of the time and effort spent on the item, the smith must also expend 1/25 the item's GP value in XP. Once the alloy is properly creeated, the smith must forge it into a materwork-quality weapon, at which point the enhanced weapon is finished. 

As with other feats dealing with magic item creation, the smith must work daily on such items until they are completed. Characters wishing to forge Magic Armor must have at least 9 ranks of Armorsmithing, and could not also forge magic weapons without at least as much skill in weaponsmithing. The same holds true for those forging magic weapons. This feat does not replace "Craft Magic Weapons and Armor ," but is, rather, an alternative choice for a non-spellcasting smiths. The extra time for creating the weapon from scratch is the trade-off for not taking a spell casting class.

New Skill:
Knowledge (Metallurgy) (Trained Only): The character understands the intrinsic nature of metals and their alloys. The character must still have sufficient quantities of the ores/metals he want smelt on hand in order to successfully use this skill. This skill may also be used to esitmate the strength of a particular piece of metal, be it a pair of shackels, a gate, or a bridge. The DCs of smelting various metals and alloys are as follows:

Lead:10
Copper: 15
Bronze: 25 (Standard for Israelite culture)
Iron: 35
Steel: 50

Once a particular metal becomes the "standard" for a culture - that is, there is a pool of craftsmen proficient in smelting a particular metal, the DC for that metal drops by 10 or to 20, whichever is lower. Thus the DC for an Israelite smith to smelt bronze is 15. (25 minus 10) 


Other Magic items exist, created solely by divine casters - and rarely at that - among the Israelites, but all types among other cultures. Items that mimic existing ones form the DMG are fine (Tzizit of Protections, for example, but they cost more - gp and xp value to create - if they don't use up one of the standard magic item slots). 

We won't go into too much reworking. Because the majority of your opponens will be humans equipped with a similar level of magic, removing a certain level of magic is not as big a deals as if I was going to be throwing an unending mass of DR15/+2 undead at you.

*EDIT*:  I think I need to expand slightly on the previous two paragraphs - there are, of course, people among the Israelites who don't follow all the teahings of their religion, and those who have picked up customs and practices of their Egyptian masters - figure that there are at least a few adepts and maybe some love level sorcerors around, as well as some charms and potions made by arcane magic.  They aren't out in the open, however.   

Finally, on equipping your characters: At this point, create your chracters with bronze weapons and armor (if any), all non-magical. The people may grant you access to better stuff later if you mission warrants it - but we aren't there yet, and things may go different than I expect.  If your family is wealthy, or you think ther eis something else about the PC that justifies owning a masterwork weapon or armor, go for it.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 21, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> Also, how do you want us to generate HP?



Full Hp at level 1
3/4 maximum thereafter, round up.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 21, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> OK, here's an initial post for my character. I still need to choose a feat and do a couple other things like equipment. I also still need to work on my background. what I've posted is more like a journal entry, trying to feel out his personality. if this doesn't gel with the campaign, or if it doesn't gel with the times, please let me know.
> 
> Ghostknight, I have a question about his background/family. Assuming he is a Kohenin, descended from Aaron, considering its only been 30 years or so since leaving egypt, how many offspring does Aaron have? Its been awhile since my Old Testament survey class, and while I had an excellent instructor, my mind is really fuzzy on the details. Anyhting that will help me draw a good background and family history would be appreciated.



Yangnome,

We're only about a year out from Egypt, so your chracter will have ben born in Egypt, if that's okay.  Thant may change some of your other background - I'm not sure, so I'll wait to comment.

Aaron is a spry nonagenarian at this point and has four sons: Nadav, Avihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.  Both Eleazar and Ithamar already have sons.  I'm unclear about who had daughters.


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## yangnome (Jun 21, 2004)

ah, I thought we were 30 years out of egypt...I'll have to look over the character.  I'd imagine that being only a year out would limit the number of kohenim.  Any thoughts on this from you or ghostknight would be appreciated.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 21, 2004)

There are certainly very few priests - and the Levites have yet to be consecrated, if I'm not mistaken.  You are certainly welcome (ecouraged, in fact) to run one of those priests, but understand that you are one of a very few, and that you will be expected to have babies


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## humble minion (Jun 22, 2004)

The Versatile feat solves my skill rank requirements nicely - I'll take Versatile (Diplomacy and Knowledge(Religion)), which would seem feasible for someone who's had to raise a family, especially since failing to give your children proper religious education is a sin according to the Israelite code.

 I'm looking to take a hyena (3.5e MM) as an animal companion.  It's more suited to the region than a wolf but with almost identical stats, and, being a rather creepy carrion-eater, it adds to the sense of social isolation I was going for.

 Regarding the ranger spellcasting issue, might I suggest a compromise?  As I'm only planning to take ranger up to 5th level regardless, how about I forgo ranger spellcasting entirely in exchange for my animal companion being one level more advanced than it would otherwise be?  This would let the companion get the next level-based advancement before I leave the ranger class, and hopefully remain useful a little longer as the group rises in level.

 I still haven't got internet access at the new house, so I'm posting this from work.  Hopefully I'll be able to post a full character writeup in the next couple of days.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 22, 2004)

yangnome said:
			
		

> ah, I thought we were 30 years out of egypt...I'll have to look over the character.  I'd imagine that being only a year out would limit the number of kohenim.  Any thoughts on this from you or ghostknight would be appreciated.




Well, being a grandson of one of Aaron's makes it easier for you- once the Levites get consecrated you would automatically become a Kohen, unlike his actual son's who had to earn it 



			
				Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> We're only about a year out from Egypt, so your chracter will have ben born in Egypt, if that's okay. Thant may change some of your other background - I'm not sure, so I'll wait to comment.




I thought we were starting at the base of Sinai?  If so it would only be a couple of months since Egypt (forty days from the red sea to Sinai).  If not then would this be after the golden calf etc?  (if the spies are being sent then the Kohenim have been consecrated and the ark and its acroutements built as well.)

A point of note for people- the sin of the Golden Calf was primarily of men.  The Mishnah points out that in general the women refused to give their jewellery and the golden calf was a small idol.  In contrast, when Moses asked for people to donate jewellery etc for the making of the ark/acroutements of the ark/symbols of the kohenim- the women gave so much he had to stop them giving as they had collected too much!

As for my character - I was looking to have masterwork leather armor and leather whip- the PC justification being that he had come form a wealthy Egyptian family and would have been kitted out by his family.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 22, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> I thought we were starting at the base of Sinai? If so it would only be a couple of months since Egypt (forty days from the red sea to Sinai). If not then would this be after the golden calf etc? (if the spies are being sent then the Kohenim have been consecrated and the ark and its acroutements built as well.)



Sorry - there may e some accelerations in time as the campaign goes along, but the first scene of the campaign is going to be the golden calf. We may, from there (which is a scene that I think is a good one to get to know each of the chracters a bit, and to see how they react in that sort of situation) move ahead to when the spies are sent out, but maybe not, if plot hooks present themselves earlier than that. 

First "on screen" appearance of the characters will be about 40 days after Moses went up to Sinai. 

[/quote]As for my character - I was looking to have masterwork leather armor and leather whip- the PC justification being that he had come form a wealthy Egyptian family and would have been kitted out by his family.[/QUOTE] 
Sounds fine to me   Not sure you'll win any points from the Israelites brandishing a reminder of your days as a slavemaster though


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 22, 2004)

humble minion said:
			
		

> The Versatile feat solves my skill rank requirements nicely - I'll take Versatile (Diplomacy and Knowledge(Religion)), which would seem feasible for someone who's had to raise a family, especially since failing to give your children proper religious education is a sin according to the Israelite code.
> 
> I'm looking to take a hyena (3.5e MM) as an animal companion. It's more suited to the region than a wolf but with almost identical stats, and, being a rather creepy carrion-eater, it adds to the sense of social isolation I was going for.



Thant all sounds good.



> Regarding the ranger spellcasting issue, might I suggest a compromise? As I'm only planning to take ranger up to 5th level regardless, how about I forgo ranger spellcasting entirely in exchange for my animal companion being one level more advanced than it would otherwise be? This would let the companion get the next level-based advancement before I leave the ranger class, and hopefully remain useful a little longer as the group rises in level.



That sounds reasonable, but let me keep thinking about it (Ghostknight, do you have your UA back yet, by chance?) - because there are bound a lot of rangers encountered in the campaign, many other them are going to be over 5th level, so I need a good campaign wide solution to the issue.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 22, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> Thant all sounds good.
> 
> 
> That sounds reasonable, but let me keep thinking about it (Ghostknight, do you have your UA back yet, by chance?) - because there are bound a lot of rangers encountered in the campaign, many other them are going to be over 5th level, so I need a good campaign wide solution to the issue.




I got it back, and seem to have gotten it wrong!  I know I have seen a ranger variant without magic, but it is not in UA.  I will check my other books and just hope I have it and it wasn;t something I saw on the internet somewhere!


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## yangnome (Jun 22, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> There are certainly very few priests - and the Levites have yet to be consecrated, if I'm not mistaken.  You are certainly welcome (ecouraged, in fact) to run one of those priests, but understand that you are one of a very few, and that you will be expected to have babies



 OK, the changes don't seem all that drastic, aside from the difference in years.  I'll make Caleb one of Aaron's grandchildren (provided that the age still fits).  though I'll need to change a few facts in what I posted, his view on things shouldn't change at all.  If anything, he might be even more upset, having witnessed the miracles himself.


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## humble minion (Jun 23, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> I got it back, and seem to have gotten it wrong! I know I have seen a ranger variant without magic, but it is not in UA. I will check my other books and just hope I have it and it wasn;t something I saw on the internet somewhere!



 This version is in Complete Warrior.  I had a bit of a look at it myself - the major features are a 10ft speed increase at level 6, followed later on by the ability to remove disease and to raise your Wis/Dex/Con by 4 for 1 min/level once per day.  A little on the weak side in my opinion, but I suppopse it's functional.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 23, 2004)

humble minion said:
			
		

> This version is in Complete Warrior.  I had a bit of a look at it myself - the major features are a 10ft speed increase at level 6, followed later on by the ability to remove disease and to raise your Wis/Dex/Con by 4 for 1 min/level once per day.  A little on the weak side in my opinion, but I suppopse it's functional.




Right- I saw it when browsing the book (I never bought it unfortunately, I got UA instead).


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 23, 2004)

Looking for crituques on this variant ranger.  It gives (almost entirely non-combat) bonus feats, like a fighter's, instead of spells, but is otherwise the 3.5e ranger.  It's based on what I've heard second hand about the Iron Kingdoms' variant ranger.

Thanks,
Ian


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## humble minion (Jun 24, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> Looking for crituques on this variant ranger. It gives (almost entirely non-combat) bonus feats, like a fighter's, instead of spells, but is otherwise the 3.5e ranger. It's based on what I've heard second hand about the Iron Kingdoms' variant ranger.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ian



 It looks a little overdone, to be frank.  Over 20 levels, this ranger gets only one less bonus feat than a fighter (not even counting the combat style quasi-feats), while still having many more skill points, special abilities and so on.  Granted that many of the bonus feat choices are not the highest-powered combat-oriented ones available, but it's still a concern.  

 I'd prefer a bonus feat progression of about 1 per 4 levels, and with a list that included various feats that enhance ranger abilites.  There's a few examples of the latter in Complete Warrior, but you might have to house-rule a few others.  Enhanced Animal Companion, Improved Wild Empathy, that sort of thing...


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 24, 2004)

Thanks!

I don't have Complete Warrior, but if you post a couple of the feats, I'd porbably include them in the list.  I agree on the suggestion of 1/4 feat progression.  In general, would this be acceptable ( with the addition of a few more rangery feats once we collect them?)


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## humble minion (Jun 28, 2004)

Pardon me for not being around recently - I'm still having problems with my home internet connection.

 Anyway, the only ranger-oriented feats in Complete Warrior were Favoured Power Attack (do extra damage when using Power Attack against a favoured enemy) and Improved Favoured Enemy (do an extra 3 points of damage ony any attack against a favoured enemy).  I had a look in Complete Divine too, and there's not much there unless you're a druid.

 I've got my character mostly done but for a few mechanical details, which will be easy enough to tie up once the ranger issues are finalised.  

 - Are we using the 3.5 ranger (minus spells, plus one bonus feat every fourth level) or the modified ranger from earlier in the thread (but with bonus feats every fourth level rather than every second)?
 - Is the 'every fourth level' bonus feat progression 4th, 8th, 12th, etc, or something different like 2nd, 5th, 9th, etc?
 - I'll want to take a feat that gives me a more advanced animal companion than I would otherwise have as a 4th level ranger.  This sort of thing would seem to be a logical ranger bonus feat, but there doesn't seem to be any such thing in any of WotC's books.  Any possibility of coming up with some homebrew version for me to take?

 Thanks, and I hope to get things finalised soon!


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 28, 2004)

Is this the sort of things you were thinking of? (I'm working on the complete class - It is going to be basically 3.5, plus feats at 4,8,12, etc., plus favored terrain at 3rd.


Improved Animal Companion: (General) Prereq: Animal Companion ability. Benefit: Your animal companion is 1 level higher than you would normally receive based on your class level.


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## humble minion (Jun 29, 2004)

Yep, that's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.


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## Tonguez (Jun 30, 2004)

Bump


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 30, 2004)

(Resubscribing.) 

I will post the final version of the variant ranger in a little bit, and then open the IC thread (Humble Minion, you said you were basically done, is that right?)

There will be another player joining the group, but we write him in when he's ready.


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## Maerdwyn (Jun 30, 2004)

Next version of the ranger.


Humbleminion, post your character when you get a chance, and I'll open the IC thread 

Edit: it helps to actually attach the file...


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## humble minion (Jul 1, 2004)

Thanks, Maerdwyn.  I'm still having internet problems, but my character will be posted within 24 hrs.


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## humble minion (Jul 2, 2004)

I can't catch a break at the moment. Not only is my net connection down, my rarely-used floppy drive seems to have died as well. So I've had to print this character out after typing it up on my home computer, then retype the whole damn thing at work so I can post it. Bah!

 Edit: I should note that my internet access is still going to be sporadic until Tuesday at the earliest, so if I disappear for a bit I will be back...

   Melech ben Hurai
   Middle-aged male human (Israelite) Ranger 4
   Hit Dice: 4d8 + 8 (32 hp)
   Str 12 (13 - 1 (age))
   Dex 14 (15 - 1 (age))
   Con 14 (15 - 1 (age))
   Int 12 (11 + 1 (age))
   Wis 16 (14 + 1 (age) + 1 (level))
   Cha 12 (11 - 1 (age))

   Attack: +7 ranged masterwork mighty (+1) composite longbow 1d8 + 1, +5 melee handaxe 1d6 + 1
   Init: +2
   AC: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 studded leather cloak), flat-footed 12, touch 12
   Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +4

 Skills: Diplomacy +6 (5 ranks), Handle Animal +6 (5 ranks), Heal +6 (3 ranks), Hide +8 (5 ranks), Knowledge (dreams) +2 (1 rank crossclass), Knowledge (nature) +2 (1 rank), Knowledge (religion) +8 (7 ranks), Listen +7 (4 ranks), Move Silently +8 (5 ranks), Profession (hunter) +10 (7 ranks), Spot +8 (5 ranks), Survival +10 (7 ranks)

   Languages: Hebrew
   Flaw: World weary

 Feats: Track*, Versatile (Knowledge (religion) and Diplomacy), Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot*, Endurance*, Dreamer, Improved Animal Companion*

   * = bonus ranger feat or fighting style

 Special Abilities: Favoured enemy (animals +2), Favoured Terrain (desert), Wild Empathy +5, Animal Companion (Paqad, hyena - I'll post a stat block later)

 Equipment: Masterwork mighty composite (+1 Str) longbow, hand axe, skinning knife, snares, studded leather cloak, healer's kit, camping and wilderness survival gear (incl small tent, waterskins, blankets, flint & steel, cookpot, etc), desert travelling garments, lionskin cloak.

 (The bow might be a bit much, but I assumed since hunting is his only livelihood he would have made sure the tools of his trade were as good as possible. Feel free to disallow it if it's over the top)

 In bondage in Egypt, Melech's family laboured to make the mud bricks that went to build Pharaoh's great buildings and monuments. Throughout the tribe of asher they were renowned for their size and strength, a great boon in such a physically demanding job. Melech, however, grew slight and wiry, without the towering strength of his elder brothers Joel and Eleazar. 

 Continually surpassed by the might of his brothers and cousins, Melech took to spending more and more time in the wilderness. Over time, by listening to the herdsmen and the trappers, he taught himself to hunt, and soon began to support himself through the pelts he brought home rather then the bricks that he made. Hurai was displeased at this development, and when the time came to divide his possessions amongst, he granted Joel and Eleazar the lion's share. Melech was left to support himself and his young family with little more than his bow and his knowledge of the wilderness.

 Melech's wife, Naarah, was disappointed at this - she had married into Melech's family in the hope her children would inherit a respected living in the brickmills when they came of age. She considered divorce, but the couple had two young children, Sarai and Shimon, and she did not want to endanger their future further, Somewhat chastened by the impact that his choices had had on his children's prospects, Melech took great care to see they recieved a proper education in matters both religious and practical. But he still had to put food on the table, and so he spent many long days in the wastes, hunting predators that had attacked Israelite herds and taking pelts to sell.

 Sarai married a tailor's son, who Melech met while selling furs, at age 15. Melech found Shimon a position in his old family brickyards, but Shimon resented being a mere labourer for his more prosperous cousins, and eventually bought a spear and shield and became a guardsman and soldier. He married late, to the daughter of a smith whose fondness for wine had diminished his fortunes. Shimon made no secret of blaming his father for his humble circumstances, and, bone-weary of his son's anger and his wife's distance, Melech took to spending more time in the wilderness again. Having spent much of his life roaming them, the wastes held few of the superstitious fears for Melech as they did for most, but this time evcen he felt as if something unusual was happening.

 The occasional strange, unsettling dream he dismissed as the result of regrets and advancing age, but the hyena was a different matter. A big, powerful, heavy-jawed male, it trotted fearlessly up to Melech as he pitched his tent in the desert, and lay down at his feet. In the following days it flushed his quarry, shared his fire and devoured the skinned carcasses he left behind. It even followed him back to the settlement, ignored the skittish herds completely, and guarded his door. Melech's neighbours were deeply suspicious of the strangely-behaved carrion-eater that travelled with the ragged, weatherbeaten hunter, and suspected sorcery or worse. Despite their demands, Melech refused to slay or drive off the beast, suspecting it to be an omen or sign. He named it Paqad, meaning visitor. Relations between Melech and his neighbours deteriorated, and he and Naarah found themselves shunned.

 This state of affairs lasted nearly a year before greater events intervened. Moses called down the ten plagues, and the Israelites departed Egypt. Knowledgable wilderness guides were suddenly at a premium, and Melech found himself (barely) tolerated once again. So it continued until Moses climbed Mount Sinai. That night, in his lonely tent on the far-flung edge of the camp, Melech dreamed - the most vivid dream he had ever had. He dreamed of [insert DM's description here], and somehow _knew_ that it was a command from the Lord, that he must [insert DMs desired campaign direction here].

 Melech awoke, drained and aching already, just as the call went around for jewellery to be smelted into the golden calf. He had thought he had done enough. Sacrifice to your God, raise your family, teach your son, support your wife, see your daughter well married. And in return? Watch your son grow up to sneer at you, venture out to crack your bones and tear your muscles in the wilderness year after year, accept the filty stares of your neighbours, and lear to ignore the way they hustle their children aside as you pass by.

 And now, yet another burden had been laid upon him. The path of those called by the Lord was rarely a smooth one, he knew. He gathered his bow, stretched long and painfully, and stepped forward, Paqad loping at his heels.


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## Maerdwyn (Jul 2, 2004)

In Character Thread: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1635131#post1635131 

A few rules. 

You can name non-critical people - extras, if you will - if I haven't made you aware of their names yet and you need to converse with them. There are thousands of people in the camp, and I have not named them all. Your chracters have friends, etc. and you can converse with them about "flavor" things without my input. If you think it will have game implications, start the conversation and I'll jump in as the other character. 

At the start of a combat round, everyone declares actions, then I'll roll initiatives, and post the order of actions. You can handle your own dice rolls with the dice roller in my sig, or ask me to do it for you. Certain skill rolls will be handled by me in secret (sense motive, etc.). In any case, I'm going to try to keep most numbers out of the IC thread, and results will be reported like this:

Aviram slashes at the boar, but the beast knocks his sword aside with a tusk. 

Creativity (descriptive posts, plot hooks, etc.) will be rewarded with XP 

I'm sure I'm forgetting things, please bear with me or remind me.

Edit:  Please post your character here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1635169#post1635169
That will be the character sheet of record for the campaign.


Let's have some good gaming!


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## Maerdwyn (Jul 7, 2004)

Just checking in - Yangnome, are you still here?


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## yangnome (Jul 8, 2004)

yep, sorry didn't realize that the game had gone live.  I'll try to read through the thread and post a response tonight.


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## Andrew D. Gable (Aug 1, 2004)

Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to drop this one.  Nothing wrong, I just can't seem to get into it.


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## Maerdwyn (Aug 2, 2004)

Np, Andrew - Thanks for letting me know 

Can I get a check i nfrom everyone else to see how you're doing enjoyment-wise?  It's kind of hard to get a read sometimes, and I haven't felt 100% about the game myself.


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## Ghostknight (Aug 2, 2004)

I am enjoying it, but maybe it is just the unfamiliarity for some of the setting/mechanics which is a bit inhibiting?  For me, I think this would pass in time, but the question is, are people enjoying it- that is why we play RPGs after all!

Also, I think a large combat like this is difficult to carry out in a PbP environment, it takes a lot of time and my feeling for the setting is that this would be better as RP heavy rather than combat heavy.


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## humble minion (Aug 3, 2004)

I'm enjoying it.  I think things are starting slowly, but that is only to be expected when the PCs start out not knowing each other.  And a part of it may be my fault, for bringing a world-weary loner PC to the table without thinking how to get him interacting with the group.  I'm trying to get him involved without metagaming, but I do find myself stretching at times.  Still, it's obvious that you've planned carefully and have an intriguing, solid idea where the campaign is going to go.  I'm certainly not going to drop out any time soon.

 I think that Ghostknight is right in that a PbP game can get really bogged down in minutae if it includes many combat scenes as a tabletop game would.  It only takes one player to be a day or two late with their IC posts and things can really start to drag.  Having said that, you do need to have occasional combats, but perhaps save the really detailed, round-by-round stuff for major, important scenes.


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## Maerdwyn (Aug 7, 2004)

Possibly bad timing, but I'll be away until the 14th, so I'll need to put the game on hold until then.  I'll see you all in a week or so.


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## yangnome (Aug 7, 2004)

I too am enjoying it.  I think ghostknight is right about the setting being unfamiliar.  I know this inhibits my posting a bit.  I'd like to stay in character and true to the theme, but sometimes its hard to judge what the right action is.  I too think this will settle with time as well.  I also agree on the RP vs. Combat comment, then again, I've always preferred RP heavy games.  If you are going to run allot of combat, I would suggest that you have some rule where you take over a character's actions (doing something reasnoable of course) if they don't post in a day or two.  This will help keep the game from getting bogged down if someone can't get online.


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## Maerdwyn (Aug 31, 2004)

Hi everyone - 

Unfortunately, I think I'm going to need to close this game down.  No fault of yours - basically I really think I need to run a few Face to Face Testament sessions before running it as a PbP.  I'm not satisfied with the tone or feel I'm creating, and to make it better (up to where I think it should be) is going to take a lot more effort than I'm ble to put into it at this point.   

I like your characters and your RPing, and want to say thanks for taking a chance on my game.

Sorry,
Ian


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## Ghostknight (Aug 31, 2004)

Fair enough.  if you ever to decide to kick this off again, let me know.


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## yangnome (Aug 31, 2004)

Thank you for being up front about it rather than just slinking off into obscurity.  I've had too many PbP games where DMs (and players) just stop posting.  For what it is worth, I was enjoying hte game.  Let me know as well if you give it another try.


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## humble minion (Sep 1, 2004)

No hard feelings, and thanks for being so straightforward about things.  

 For what it's worth, I really enjoyed the game.  And from my experience, 'tone' is always the hardest thing to create in a game, so don't feel too put-off if you haven't achieved what you wanted in a relatively short time.

 Best of luck, and drop me a line should you ever decide to start up again.


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