# OOC - Magic Kingdom for Sale* - Full



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 21, 2004)

Rogue's Gallery 

_Magic Kingdom for Sale*

*Assembly not incuded._ 

You are a party of experienced adventurers, given a "reward" after a lifetime of adventuring.  The king figures that your group is full of honorable people, and also had a lot of resources at their fingertips.  Now, expanding the country is hard, but getting a bunch of adventurers to carve out their own baronies and then taxing them is much more cost effective!  So the king gives the group of adventurers a large tract of "untamed wilderness."  It's the adventurers' job to tame it, build some fortresses and roads, loot some dungeons, clear out evil dragons, that type of stuff.  They get to keep all the spoils of their "taming" for five years, and then the king will start taxing them.

So it's a semi-crazy free-for-all!  You have to tame this wild, wild west, get the peoples already here either on your side or under your boot, get rid of the dragons in caves and liches in towers, and make a few islands of civilization!

However, we have some quirks:

I'd like this game, if it were to be played, mind you, to bit just a smidge gritter than normal.  To that end, I want to ban all the spells that create food and water (though purifying it would be ok), so that finding those kind of resources means something.  Also, I'd like to ban _continual light_, so that people either have to use the shorter-lived _light_ spell, dark/low-light vision, torches, lanterns, or sunrods, just to kind of take it home how far you are away from civilization.  You guys will _be_ the light in the dark.  

The other quirk is that... (and this is fairly egocentric of me, I admit that right off the bat) I'd like everyone in this game, if it ends up coming to pass, to each have levels in a different prestige class that I, myself, made.  I have a lot of them, and I'd like to use this crazy game to do some additional playtesting on them.

Most of my PrCs were made for 3.0, but they can be switched without too much effort.  I'll be attempting to update those that need updating.  

I assume if you pick Landlord that you'll get your cash before traipsing off into the wild blue yonder.  As for Leadership, you could have all your followers come along and start building stuff, and leave your cohort in charge of their saftey.  Or something.  Or you could try to win a cohort and followers amongst the "heathens."  Your followers will be given basic gear for free.

This will take place outside of my homebrew of Low'verok, so that will help you figure out deities, home cities, places you might have adventured, etc.  Link is in the sig.

*Prospective Landlords*

*Xael* - *Rezomael* - CG Male Human Wizard 5/Lightning Rod 7

*Thanee* - *Allyra* - TN Female Human Wizard 5th/Incantatrix 5th/The Endless 2nd

*Ferrix* - *Trekt Loreseeker* - TN Male Dwarf Ranger 5/Finder of the Lost 5/The Grim 2

*Lady Shatterstone* - *Dubheasa DarkStar* - LN Female Void Genasi Wizard 7/Bound Woman 5

*Keia* - Psion/Spirituel

*Dark Nemesis*

Low'verok map (you're going westward) 

*Inactive Players*

*Serpenteye* - *Alessandra* - NG Female Human Druid 7/Ancient Mother 5

*Nac Mac Feegle* - *Shal Lightbearer* - NG Male Human Cleric of Pelor 5/Forbiddance of the Divine 7 

*Sephiroth no Miko* - *Phaeder* - NG Male Human Bard 8/Song Ghost 4

*Emperor Valerian* - *Drakkon Cuspis* - CG Barbarian 3/Cleric of Kord 6/BondBlade 3

*Alternates*
Creamsteak 
Ghostknight
Brother Shatterstone
Lady Shatterstone

So, for the rest of y'all... the link to my PrCs is in my sig... 

So 12th level, 32 point buy, hit points max at first, 75% plus Con from there on in. 

Races allowed:
Humans
Elves
Ghost elves (Dragon #313)
Halflings
Half-orcs
Gnomes
Dwarves
The genasi from Low'verok (link in the sig)
Elans (ExPsiHB)
Maenads (ExPsiHB)

Classes - All core, all in Expanded Psionics Handbook, some of the variant rangers presented in AEG's Wilds.

PrCs - In my sig. No two people have have the same PrC, and everyone should at least have 2 levels in one. (I'm 80% sure that's possible)

Feats, spells, equipment - Can be drawn from core, Expanded Psionics Handbook, FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Player's Guide to Faerun (and any specific things that book references), AEG's Wilds, Dragon #277-322, Arms and Equipment Guide, Complete Series. DM has final approval.

Cash - You have 58,667gp to spend. No more than 44,000gp on any one item. The extra money (as normally a 12th level character would have 88,000gp to spend) I will be putting in a "pot" as a bunch of treasure you guys found during your last adventure. If there's something really cool in the pot that you would use instead of something you already have, you can just take the money from that now defunct item and buy something else with it. You can make suggestions for the pot as well.  (New characters just coming in can spend all their gold as normal, still spend no more than half your wealth on any one item)

Backgrounds - You guys are an adventuring group that has been together through thick and thin for several years. I'd prefer not to run an entirely evil game. Other than that, make sure your characters can get along. And think of a name for your group!


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## Emperor Valerian (Jul 21, 2004)

Hmm... very interesting.  Very interesting indeed...

I think Alarian Karpov might need to return?


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## Creamsteak (Jul 21, 2004)

Besides the quirks, this sounds a LOT like my homebrew campaigns that I run table-top. Cept the quirks, those are all yours.

I'm not really interested though, as I'm a bit busy right now. No, wait, I'm intersted. I just don't want to bite a bullet I can't chew. I'll admit, if you start tossing out more neat elements, I might force myself to try and get in this though. Is this whole bit a home-brew?


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## IdentityCrisis (Jul 21, 2004)

Sounds... Interesting.  Ranger and Druid start sounding more interesting with the need to find food, and you might want to eliminate shelter-creating spells as well.

Can you provide more info, such as classes allowed and starting level/gear?  What prestige classes have you got?


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## Ghostknight (Jul 21, 2004)

Sounds interesting to me.  Especially the bitr about trying out new prestige classes!  (What can I say, I'm a sucker for the new and different - probably why I have bought and read so many different games, even though I know I will never play even half of them!)


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 21, 2004)

[/delurks]

Well, the quirks don't really bother me, and looking over your prestige classes, I'd have to say some of them look really cool so no problem on trying one out (the Song Ghost, maybe?)! And the premise is rather amusing... So I'd be interested if this goes and you'd have me. I've had a little experience with pbp games, though not that much. 

Would this be 3.0e or 3.5e?


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## Thanee (Jul 21, 2004)

"Bewährung für die Kriegsherren" (sorry, dunno the english title, it's a basic D&D adventure-campaign with a very similar tone) always was a favorite of mine back then. 

  So, I'd be interested. Looking at your PrC now...

 Hmmm... from the general idea, The Endless seems pretty cool, but that's really some harsh stuff (altho it would surely be interesting to find out what happens with a Forever Burn Time Stop... ).

 Kinda like a builder/architect spellcaster (sorcerer/wizard), who uses long lasting magic to enhance her work, altho some of the limits would make this a bit difficult (no item creation, no permanent light sources mostly). Hmmm... 

  Bye
  Thanee


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## Ghostknight (Jul 21, 2004)

*Unable to access thread on Wizards board*

I tried looking at your PrCs but got a message saying I do not have access.


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## Thanee (Jul 21, 2004)

I can access them just fine...

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Ghostknight (Jul 21, 2004)

I found the problem.  It was on my side- I forgot that the firewall had blocked the confirmation email I remembered- sent the confirmation via another route and am just fine now


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 21, 2004)

I'd love to play in this concept, it reminds me of my long-term plans for the first character I ever had.  Is there still room?  If there is, I think I'd play as a bard/evangelist/road warrior.

What would be the effects of leadership and/or landlord?


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## Serpenteye (Jul 21, 2004)

Sounds interesting. If there's still room I'd like to play. I'm not sure what yet, I'll have to take a look at your prestige classes first.


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## Xael (Jul 21, 2004)

I just love the concept. I've always been a sucker for taking over places and establishing something. And I really like some of those prestige classes...

If you decide to run this, I'm certainly interested.


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## Emperor Valerian (Jul 21, 2004)

Bondblade is what I'm thinking right now.  Definitely Bondblade.


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## Ferrix (Jul 21, 2004)

I want in if there is space left... *starts looking through your PrCs*


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 21, 2004)

Ok, so here's what I'm thinking.  I will let the people in that either aren't in my games yet, are new, or people I've had to dump recently.  So, that means Emperor Valerian, Xael, Serpenteye, Thanee, Identity Crisis, and Sephiroth no Miko.  Be that cool with everybody?

Now, as for level, let's make it level 12.  As for edition, let's go 3.5.  Most of my PrCs were made for 3.0, but they can be switched without too much effort.  I'll be attempting to update those that need updating.  Umm... landlord and stuff... I assume if you pick Landlord that you'll get your cash before traipsing off into the wild blue yonder.  As for Leadership, you could have all your followers come along and start building stuff, and leave your cohort in charge of their saftey.  Or something.  Or you could try to win a cohort and followers amongst the "heathens."

Um, as for a homebrew, this will basically be a homebrew as of yet undetermined proportions.  Basically you can just make up whatever you like as to where you're from, as the main focus of the campaign will be on the uncharted wildnerdess.  To make it easy, the "civilized" area could be Low'verok, my homebrew, and you could be exploring the unexplored lands around there.  Yeah...  How about that?


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 21, 2004)

Alas, I'm all sad that I didn't get in.

Oh well, put me on your alternates list.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 21, 2004)

I'll be putting everyone else who wanted in on an alternate list, which will include Creamstead, Nac Man Feelge, Ferrix, Ghostknight, and Brother and Lady Shatterstone.

So, for the rest of y'all... the link to my PrCs is in my sig... 

So 12th level, 32 point buy, hit points max at first, 75% plus Con from there on in.  

Races allowed:
Humans
Elves
Ghost elves (Dragon #313)
Halflings
Half-orcs
Gnomes
Dwarves
The genasi from Low'verok (link in the sig)
Elans (ExPsiHB)
Maenads (ExPsiHB)

Classes - All core, all in Expanded Psionics Handbook, some of the variant rangers presented in AEG's Wilds.

PrCs - In my sig.  No two people have have the same PrC, and everyone should at least have 2 levels in one.  (I'm 80% sure that's possible)

Feats, spells, equipment - Can be drawn from core, Expanded Psionics Handbook, FRCS, Magic of Faerun, AEG's Wilds, Dragon #277-322, Arms and Equipment Guide, all splatbooks.  DM has final approval.

Cash - You have 58,667gp to spend.  No more than 44,000gp on any one item.  The extra money (as normally a 12th level character would have 88,000gp to spend) I will be putting in a "pot" as a bunch of treasure you guys found during your last adventure.  If there's something really cool in the pot that you would use instead of something you already have, you can just take the money from that now defunct item and buy something else with it.  You can make suggestions for the pot as well.

Backgrounds - You guys are an adventuring group that has been together through thick and thin for several years.  I'd prefer not to run an entirely evil game.  Other than that, make sure your characters can get along.  And think of a name for your group!

I'm open as to the kinds of terrain you guys would like to explore - Woods, swamp, desert, tundra, jungle...  So make some suggestions about which kinds of things tickle your fancy.  If you want to name any favorite monsters or whatnot, feel free.


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## Ferrix (Jul 21, 2004)

i'll guess i'll accept the position of alternate... so many games anyway, might be best for now


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Comments, concerns, criticisms, and death threats are all welcome.




*shakes head*  I have many, but I sum them up with I think your insane!  

I also have a feeling I know who the "death threats" will come from...


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 22, 2004)

Yay! (does a little happy dance) 

So... I was thinking maybe being a genasi song ghost (or barring that, plain old human)? The ghost elves are a neat race too but the -4 to Con, on top of the -2 from the PrC... oof. I'd like to live long enough to finish my ghost's quest! But the glow-in-the-dark thing ability sure is appealing. 

I have a few questions though about the negatai and positai genasi. For the saving bonuses and penalties, I assume they stack? That is, if a negatai suffers a -2 racial penalty to saves (erk!), but gets +2 vs necromantic effects for level (would that be at 5th or 10th level?), it would result in a net +0 right for necromantic effects right?

Also, could you clarify "natural healing being slower and healing spells being less effective?" (and the "faster rate of natural healing/undead do more damage" for positai? And finally, what are the caster levels for the spell-like abilities (and which ability score do they use)? Thanks!

I would like to put in I would prefer a non-evil game as well. As for terrain, I don't have much of a preference though swamp and jungle would be at the bottom of the list. (Especially if this is going to be our new home!) But if others are really keen on them, I can live with that.

P.S. If a negatai or positai turns/rebukes undead, how will this affect his bonded spirit? (Or if my allies turn/rebuke?)


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## Emperor Valerian (Jul 22, 2004)

Hmmm... so many options...

Right now I'm thinking the following:

A cleric/bondblade, with a holy weapon from his/her deity (haven't decided little things like gender yet!  )  Sent to the frontier to convert the heathens and eventually found a temple or monastery to his/her god.

Now as for which deity... there's the ubiquitous Pelor and Hieroneous... though a cleric of Kord might be neat.  Any neat ideas, anyone?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 22, 2004)

Emperor Valerian said:
			
		

> Hmmm... so many options...
> 
> Right now I'm thinking the following:
> 
> ...




How about - Kossuth, the god of fire, sacrifice, and renewel?  Grumbar, the god of earth and time?  Liira, the goddess of joy?  Yondalla, the goddess of the hearth and family (protector of halfings)?  



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> So... I was thinking maybe being a genasi song ghost (or barring that, plain old human)? The ghost elves are a neat race too but the -4 to Con, on top of the -2 from the PrC... oof. I'd like to live long enough to finish my ghost's quest! But the glow-in-the-dark thing ability sure is appealing.



  Sounds neat!  I would consider investing in a lot of protective magic and healing spells.  



> I have a few questions though about the negatai and positai genasi. For the saving bonuses and penalties, I assume they stack? That is, if a negatai suffers a -2 racial penalty to saves (erk!), but gets +2 vs necromantic effects for level (would that be at 5th or 10th level?), it would result in a net +0 right for necromantic effects right?



  Correct.



> Also, could you clarify "natural healing being slower and healing spells being less effective?" (and the "faster rate of natural healing/undead do more damage" for positai?



  Negatai heal at half the normal rate, naturally.  Healing spells do one less point of healing per die on a Negatai.  Positai basically act as if they have the Fast Healing feat from Masters of the Wild.  Undead that attack Positai get an extra point of damage per die when they attack Positai physically. 



> And finally, what are the caster levels for the spell-like abilities (and which ability score do they use)? Thanks!



  Caster level is character level, and it's keyed off of Charisma.



> I would like to put in I would prefer a non-evil game as well. As for terrain, I don't have much of a preference though swamp and jungle would be at the bottom of the list. (Especially if this is going to be our new home!) But if others are really keen on them, I can live with that.



  Heh.  "I have some real estate in Florida I want to sell you..."  



> P.S. If a negatai or positai turns/rebukes undead, how will this affect his bonded spirit? (Or if my allies turn/rebuke?)



  Quoting from the PrC - "If a cleric or paladin (or other with such abilities) attempts to turn or rebuke the Song Ghost, have them make a turning check and damage roll agains the Song Ghost's hit dice. If it is successful, the Song Ghost is stunned for one round as the holy (or unholy) energy tears at their bonded spirit."

I hope that answers your questions.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 22, 2004)

Okay, slight change in plans: a human song ghost/bard or a genasi warrior-type/living spell... arg, decisions, decisions. :\ (If someone really wants to be one, I can take the other... right now, it's a bit of a toss-up for me.)

And I found this page:
http://users.erols.com/aburner/planescape/index.html

Is that where you got all the details for the para- and quasi-elemental genasi, Isida? If I pick one of those, can I just work straight from that site? Or are your genasi different?

Emperor: Kord, Pelor and Heironeus all sound fine to me... if you want something else, how about Fharlangh for his Travel aspect or Obad-Hai/Ehlonna since we will be mucking about in the wilderness?

Edit: Ehr, never mind the question about the link. I just saw your post. Riiiight. Stay away from turn-happy clerics.... Uhm. That does bring up another question though. At 3rd level, song ghosts become immune to stunning with their One Foot In The Grave ability. How does that resolve? Also, I guess this mean that anytime I turn, I have to make a turning check against myself, and if successful, subtract my HD from the turning damage before anything else (since I'd be closest to me?), correct?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 22, 2004)

My genasi are different, and I'm still working kinks out of some of them, so go with what I have in my link for now.  And I did indeed start working from them, but I've made a lot of changes to them as well.


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## Ghostknight (Jul 22, 2004)

Oh well, guess I can;t be in EVERY game 

But Bro, who do you expect deaththreats from, enquiring minds want to know!


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## Thanee (Jul 22, 2004)

It can't be me, I'm a nice person. 



> Be that cool with everybody?



  Sweet. 



> 58,667gp







> FRCS, Magic of Faerun, ...



  Player's Guide? It updates most of that stuff to 3.5!

 12th level seems about the lowest to be able to have 2 levels in that PrC I was looking at IIRC (as a Sorcerer), I think there was a 5th level spell requirement somewhere in there.


     If you are going to revise the PrC to 3.5, here are some notes concerning The Endless, for your consideration:

 * Magic for Hours --- How about this? Just allow to stack Extend Spell with itself. That would be a nice benefit in 3.5, would work well and hasn't this weird 25% modifier. 

     * Lifeblood of Magic --- I'd personally remove this part here "[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]While the spell in question is still active, the temporary Constitution damage cannot be overcome in any way. Once the spell ends, the Constitution points return."[/font] - but then there needs to be a limit on the ability. --- I'd probably just raise the DC for dispel checks aginst all spells to 15+caster level (stacks with Spell Girding - dunno for sure what this does, right now, tho) for a *permanent* -2 to Con. Just a one-time change which applies to all spells from then on.

 * Magic for Days - Persistent Spell now adds +6 levels, so this would be +7 levels. I doubt this ability could ever be used in a reasonable fashion... :\ --- How about this? Replace this ability completely with Superior Persistent Spell that lowers the levels added from the Persistent Spell feat (but adds a hp cost instead), for example, Persistent only adds +4 levels (still lasts one day only), but also some of your hps (2x modified spell level should be enough, really, wizards don't tend to have that many hps) become unavailable for that time. --- Or maybe even this instead. You can use Persistent Spell without adding its spell level modifier, but you lose 4x the spell level of that spell in hp while the spell is active. - This way you could make some low level spell persistent for a not too high cost, but if you want to make higher level spells persistent, the cost adds up pretty fast.

 * Magic for a Month --- Building on the above; replace this with Magic for Days, which allows to merge Superior Persistent Spell and Extent Spell (that is, Extent Spell increases the altered duration of 24h). No additional hp cost (the higher spell level should be enough of a cost, I think).

     * Forever Burn - "[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Please use common sense when determining which spells apply to Forever Burn." Darn, guess that rules out Time Stop.[/font] 

 Oh, and I'd remove the Spell Focus requirement, as it doesn't seem to fit well, instead maybe add 10 ranks in Spellcraft, now this is really missing.

     Bye
     Thanee


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## Xael (Jul 22, 2004)

Cool. Considering Wizard/Lightning Rod. That caster level loss just hurts...



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I'm open as to the kinds of terrain you guys would like to explore - Woods, swamp, desert, tundra, jungle... So make some suggestions about which kinds of things tickle your fancy.



Anything but desert. Deserts are just so... ...deserted.



> You can make suggestions for the pot as well.



_Daern's Instant Fortress_?


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## Thanee (Jul 22, 2004)

Or a _Lyre of Building._ 

 I'd expect to see a lot of low level equipment in there to give to veteran guards and such?

 Terrain: Altho woods are pretty "normal", I'd go with that. I really would have second thoughts, if someone would "grant" me some land in a province of their country, and it turned out to be a swamp, unless I was a gravy necromancer, than I'd love it, of course. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 22, 2004)

How about some woods with maybe a southern swamp or something for giggles and grins?

Thanee, your suggestions for the Endless are pretty cool, and I will be reviewing them and putting an update up pretty soon.

Unfortunetly I don't have the Player's Guide to Faerun, so we'll just have to not use it unless someone wants to buy it for me.  

Yes, I'll give you guys some "free" equipment for your followers.  Take a look at the Arms and Equipment Guide for some standard packages for guardsmen and stuff.

Your suggestions for the pot are noted.


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## Xael (Jul 22, 2004)

Do we design our cohorts, or do you do that?

Forest with swamp sounds cool.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 22, 2004)

Umm... hmmm.  You design your cohorts.  Remember, they get NPC gear value.  Please don't make the DM cry.  Monstrous cohorts are possible, though clear it with me first.


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## Xael (Jul 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Please don't make the DM cry.



No need to worry about that I think. I just want a "butler". 


EDIT: Oh yeah, do the cohorts need to have one of your Prcs or can I use the normal DMG ones?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 22, 2004)

Ok, I updated The Endless.  Thanee, tell me what you think.  Anyone else, if you have issues with the PrC you're looking at, please tell me.  They are not written in stone.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 22, 2004)

Um... it would be kinda cool if the cohorts could have one of my PrCs, but I don't mind if you use any of the others from my listed sources on your cohorts.


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## Xael (Jul 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Anyone else, if you have issues with the PrC you're looking at, please tell me. They are not written in stone.



Well, I'm mainly worried about The Lightning Rod's caster level progression (3 out of 10 levels). But the class has so many other goodies (d8 hit die, 2 good saves, moderate bab, plus the actual abilities), and it's meant for more combat-oriented characters than straight wizards, so the class would probably be rather unbalanced if one would up the caster level progression a bit (to 5 out of 10 levels for example). So nothing really.  

But _Ride The Lightning_ and _Summon Lightning's Wrath_ are just so damn cool...


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## Emperor Valerian (Jul 22, 2004)

Well, I can't really pick any of the Faerun stuff because I do not have the books, nor the money to get them... So I'm gonna have to stay with the standard PHB dieties sadly.

Yondalla sounds interesting... perhaps a cleric calling for the heathen halflings to unite, or at least work for the common good (Proudfeet of the world, unite!  ).   Perhaps a "Protector" in the Church of Yondalla, sent to safeguard and teach the halflings of the wild?  

My other idea right now is a human Kord cleric, focused on buffing spells and smashing things to show off Kord's strength, with a cohort that's an acolyte focused on healing his sometimes bull-headed master and his friends.

Right now I'm thinking the Kord idea might be more fun for me to play, and other people to bounce off of.  Maybe throw in a level of barbarian or two, and have him be from one of the last outposts of Low'verok... he'd relate a little better to the locals.  

6th Clr/3rd Barb/3rd Bondsblade...  his cohort can be just 8 Clr...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 23, 2004)

Ak, forgot to add Psionics.  Added what psionics I'm using in my post on the first page.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 23, 2004)

I have a Rogue's Gallery for you all.  

Ladies and Gentlemen, we will be starting the game no later than Wed, July 28th, which would be next Wednesday.  Starting earlier than that would be cool.  I know Emperor Valarien can't have his character any earlier than Wednesday due to a trip he's taking, but if everyone else could try to get their characters in early, that would be spiffy.

Also, while I do tend to run a mostly serious game, occasionally I may be infected with the sense of the absurd, so I won't mind if you guys have a few running gags or whatnot.  

And, as an extra bonus that's worth brownie points and even some extra XP (by the by, you're starting with 68,000 XP), write a real brief summary of some noteworthy deed your group did.  For example:  "The Company of the Gold Flame was hired to stop the mad orc warlord Gash the Repugnant from taking over the port city of Benshay.  With spells of acidic power from the mage Killraven, the initial orcs were routed to a canyon and easily dispatched.  Jel'ivar Lightsister, priestess of Pelor, rained holy fire upon the initial columns of the orc hoard, dispatching many of them, and causing some to lose heart and flee.  Ret'cor, the ranger, had placed many traps in the surrounding wilderness to kill many of them, while Zavok, the fearsome fighter, challenged the orc warlord himself to a battle to the death.  While this battle rage, Vel, a halfling of much skill in stealth, was able to steal the tribal battle standard.  With both the loss of their standard and the death of their warlord, the remnents of the hoard dispersed, and Company of Gold Flame carried the day."


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Anyone else, if you have issues with the PrC you're looking at, please tell me.  They are not written in stone.




Here are just a few comments on converting the two PrCs I'm (still!) trying to decide between:

*Living Spell*

* How about adding Intimidate to the list of class skills since fighters get it under 3.5?

* Flame arrow no longer exists in the fiery bolt form in 3.5e; I think it's been split off into scorching ray. So perhaps you'll want to base it off that instead (same basic idea, 4d6 points of damage, ranged touch to hit).

Ehr, that's it for that, really...

*Song Ghost*

* Would you consider adding some skills to the Song Ghost's skill list? They are still bards, and most of their abilities remain bardic, and one of the great strength of bards is their skills. Alternatively, you could tie skill groups to the ghost type if you're uncomfortable with adding a whole bunch skills. For example, a song ghost with the scamp would get Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble as class skill or something like that?

* The 3.5 bard gets 6 skills point + Int per level instead of 4 but I don't know if you're up for this or not. This is a bard-specific class so you might want to, but it really depends on if you're comfortable with it.

* Does the incorporeal form take a standard action or free action to activate? How about to change back? (I assume if you re-corporate in a solid area, the usual effects apply- shunted off to the nearest open area, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet travelled?)

* Since the Inspire Courage ability for Bardic Music now scales with the bard's level, you will probably just want to convert the enhancements the bonded spirit grants as an additional +1 bonus to fear saves, and attack and damage rolls on top of the whatever the bard gets for his level.

* Uhm, there's now also the issue of new Bardic Music abilities themselves. Before, under 3.0, the bard automatically got those abilities whenever his Perform ranks were high enough, regardless of actually whether he was a 10th level Bard or a 1st level Bard/9th level Rogue. Now, they've closed that loophole and tied the Bardic Music to bard levels as well. Do you want Song Ghost levels to stack with Bard levels for that purpose? One could argue that in lieu of gaining the higher bardic abilities (like inspire courage +3, song of freedom, inspire heroics... etc), they gain new abilities from their bonded ghost (the spiritual memory abilities and the like) instead. However, that might weaken the class in comparison from its 3.0 equivalent so you could balance that by adding one or both spell levels back into the spells per day. Or I guess you could keep it the way it was, and just use Bard level + Song Ghost level to determine the character's bardic music abilties (this seems to be more in the spirit of your PrC). The second way seems a little strange to me, because then you seem to be gaining both the class abilities of the bard class and the song ghost class as you go up (which was what you were doing under the original version, though it was written so it didn't seem that way).

If you pick the second way:

* For the Inspire Greatness ability, does the 2d6 damage apply for each use of the ability or for each person it affects? (I kinda assumed the former, but I want to double-check). 

* I guess you can add this under Bardic Music for Inspire Heroics- morale bonus on saves increase to +6 and dodge bonus to AC to +6. (Since all the bonuses seem to increase by 50-100%.). Cost: 2d6 dmg?

* And this for Song of Freedom- The Song Ghost gains a +3 on caster level checks to break enchantments. Cost: 1d6+2 dmg? (Tried to model it after Countersong)

* As the bard's Suggestion ability DC already increases with the bard's level for 3.5, maybe we can just turn this into a straight +2 on top? I personally thought the 2d6 dmg was a little excessive for enhancing a single spell for a mere +2 in the original but it's always your call. I was going to suggest (heh! nonmagically, of course) that the Suggestion could cost 1d6 dmg and the Mass Suggestion could cost 2d6 dmg.

* I would like to point out that the _animal friendship_ spell (for the feral bonded spirit) no longer exists in 3.5. Perhaps _speak with animals_ instead? Or maybe a permanent _endure elements_ effect?

* How does the Foot in the Grave immunity to stunning effects resolve with the stunning from a turn? Is a 3rd level or higher Song Ghost simply not affected? Maybe instead of being stunned, the Song Ghost could be staggered, or shaken, or sickened instead with a successful turning effect for 1d4 rounds?

* For the Dirge of Darkest Night, you could simply make the DC 10 + 1/2 the character's level in classes which he has the bardic music ability + Cha mod? (It's written awkwardly I know, there has got to be better way to say that...) It would then have the same DC as Suggestion (and Mass Suggestion if you're allowing that).

* On a side note, +3 bonus to saves look odd to me. Maybe because I like everything nice and even.  But that's just my personal quirk.

Whew! I think that covers everything... for now.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 23, 2004)

Isida, I was looking at your Negatai and thinking they are _really_ not worth the +1 ECL, especially when compared your standard fire, water, air, and earth genasi.

Getting a +1 bonus/5 levels to necromantic effects, unintelligent undead ignoring them, the ability to rebuke as a cleric 4 levels lower, chill touch 1/day does not make up for the loss of -2 to all saves, and reduced healing.

I say this because both saves and healing both heavily impact on player characters all the time. They're always rolling saves, and always getting hurt.  -2 to every save is just... brutal and the average -1 hp loss per dice _cure_ spells is not insignificant either (the slow natural healing is less of an issue since adventurers rarely heal naturally).

However, a bunch of the negatai's bonuses are quite limited. +1/5 level vs. necromantic effects isn't that powerful, especially if a character needs 10 levels just to achieve a net +0 (plus, there's that -2 to Con to overcome). Both the unintelligent undead ignoring and the ability to rebuke is nice, but they're dependent on having undead around (which in turn, is DM dependent). Even then, neither are especially powerful. Skeletons and zombies aren't much of a threat, especially as a character gets higher in levels, and besides, if you do something threatening, they'll attack you. I would classify that as a minor ability at best. 

Incidentally, for the rebuke undead, how many times can a negatai (or a positai for that matter) rebuke per day? Once or 3 + Cha like a cleric (I was assuming once)? A 1st level negatai (= to a 2nd level character if using ECL +1) would have to make a Cha check (which is what a turning check is) of 22 higher to even affect 1 HD undead!  (Plus his turning damage would be 2d6 - 3 + Cha.) Most powerful undead like vampires, liches, ghosts (even ghouls) all have turning resistance anyways, so even high-level negatais would only be able to affect skeletons and zombies most of the time (both of which would just ignore him in the first place). Yes, I realize a 19th level negatai could rebuke as a 15th level cleric. But as an equivalent of a 20th level character (or even 19th), he would be facing much tougher opponents than what a 15th cleric would be facing.

So anyways, that's my argument for why I would consider a negatai around a net +0 ECL. I think the reduced healing penalty equals out the necromantic saves bonuses and invisibility to unintelligent undead and the -2 to saves equals out the rebuke and chill touch.

Of course, this is just my 0.02.


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## Xael (Jul 23, 2004)

Just noticed that because the _Shocking Grasp_ spell has changed in 3.5, the _Kiss of Lightning_ and _Heart of Lightning_ abilities might need some minor changes. Mainly because _Shocking Grasp_ now has it's damage based on levels.


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## Thanee (Jul 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok, I updated The Endless.  Thanee, tell me what you think.



 Looks much better that way. 

 Plenty errors in there (I've noticed a handful immediately when browsing over it quickly), however, I'll point those out later.


 Here's another thing...



> [font=verdana, arial, helvetica]*Special:* Must not have taken any Item Creation feats, and refuse to learn any in the future. If an Item Creation feat is given as a class feature (such as a wizard's Scribe Scroll), the character can opt to simply not take it, even if it is free.



 
 Some people in that threat have noted how this is a bit mean for wizards... maybe this would work?

 Just restrict permanent item creation feats (those which craft permanent items only), but allow those which craft temporary items (Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Wand, Craft Staff, etc).


 Re: Psionics - what kind of PrC would psionic characters take then? 

 Bye
 Thanee

[/font]


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## Thanee (Jul 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> How about some woods with maybe a southern swamp or something for giggles and grins?



 Would be fine by me... maybe some lake also, just for a change. 

 Are we supposed to build something up together? So, more like we build our town/castle here, rather than I build my tower here, I build my keep here, etc? I think so (first one), but just to be sure. 



> Unfortunetly I don't have the Player's Guide to Faerun, so we'll just have to not use it unless someone wants to buy it for me.



 Ack, you know that some of the updates to 3.5 were fairly heavy, especially feats (Spellcasting Prodigy, Persistant Spell, etc), spells, magic items?

 I could post the changes, if anyone wants to use some stuff from those books (only to the stuff that is going to be used, of course). Shouldn't be that hard, really, even if you don't have the book.

 Leadership and Followers: Would it be reasonable for everyone to have Leadership? It kinda sounds like a very fitting feat, really.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> PrCs - In my sig. No two people have have the same PrC, and everyone should at least have 2 levels in one.



 BTW, what about other PrC, can we have another PrC plus one of yours (given a fitting concept)?

 I guess that wouldn't be a problem at this level, so just in case... 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Are we supposed to build something up together? So, more like we build our town/castle here, rather than I build my tower here, I build my keep here, etc? I think so (first one), but just to be sure.




Ehr, yeah, I have to say i'm not entirely certain what our objectives are either. Though it kinda sounded like we were suppose to build our own frontier town to me too.

I'm okay with the woods and bit 'o swamp idea, too. Though my character might grouse about the swamp... 



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> Leadership and Followers: Would it be reasonable for everyone to have Leadership? It kinda sounds like a very fitting feat, really.




You mean require everyone to take the feat? I could see that. Between the lot of us, we could have a whole hamlet!  Of course, that would double the party size if everyone brought along their cohorts... that could get messy.

By the way, where's this Landlord (feat? ability?) thingie people have been mentioning? It sounds familiar but I can't find it.


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## Xael (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Are we supposed to build something up together? So, more like we build our town/castle here, rather than I build my tower here, I build my keep here, etc? I think so (first one), but just to be sure.



Building a single town/castle would probably make more sense. It's a good thing that wooden houses don't really cost anything. Now we just need to chop some trees down. Or blast them.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> By the way, where's this Landlord (feat? ability?) thingie people have been mentioning? It sounds familiar but I can't find it.



Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 23, 2004)

Wall of Stone and Stone Shape can do a lot of nice stuff, too. 

Crude, but at least a start. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Xael (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Wall of Stone and Stone Shape can do a lot of nice stuff, too.
> 
> Crude, but at least a start.



Indeed. Then just add _Move Earth_ and make a friggin' huge moat (or a river) etc.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 23, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Here are just a few comments on converting the two PrCs I'm (still!) trying to decide between:
> 
> *Living Spell*
> 
> * How about adding Intimidate to the list of class skills since fighters get it under 3.5?



  Reasonable.  Done.



> * Flame arrow no longer exists in the fiery bolt form in 3.5e; I think it's been split off into scorching ray. So perhaps you'll want to base it off that instead (same basic idea, 4d6 points of damage, ranged touch to hit).
> 
> Ehr, that's it for that, really...



  Another good point.  Silly 3.5...



> *Song Ghost*
> 
> * Would you consider adding some skills to the Song Ghost's skill list? They are still bards, and most of their abilities remain bardic, and one of the great strength of bards is their skills. Alternatively, you could tie skill groups to the ghost type if you're uncomfortable with adding a whole bunch skills. For example, a song ghost with the scamp would get Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble as class skill or something like that?



  I like the second idea better.  I'll do that.  And add a few in to the main list.



> * The 3.5 bard gets 6 skills point + Int per level instead of 4 but I don't know if you're up for this or not. This is a bard-specific class so you might want to, but it really depends on if you're comfortable with it.



  Well, this class does get some special abilities, so I think I'll keep the skill points as-is.



> * Does the incorporeal form take a standard action or free action to activate? How about to change back? (I assume if you re-corporate in a solid area, the usual effects apply- shunted off to the nearest open area, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet travelled?)



  I just changed it, and yes it is standard, and the usual incorporal/solid objects rule apply.



> * Since the Inspire Courage ability for Bardic Music now scales with the bard's level, you will probably just want to convert the enhancements the bonded spirit grants as an additional +1 bonus to fear saves, and attack and damage rolls on top of the whatever the bard gets for his level.
> 
> * Uhm, there's now also the issue of new Bardic Music abilities themselves. Before, under 3.0, the bard automatically got those abilities whenever his Perform ranks were high enough, regardless of actually whether he was a 10th level Bard or a 1st level Bard/9th level Rogue. Now, they've closed that loophole and tied the Bardic Music to bard levels as well. Do you want Song Ghost levels to stack with Bard levels for that purpose? One could argue that in lieu of gaining the higher bardic abilities (like inspire courage +3, song of freedom, inspire heroics... etc), they gain new abilities from their bonded ghost (the spiritual memory abilities and the like) instead. However, that might weaken the class in comparison from its 3.0 equivalent so you could balance that by adding one or both spell levels back into the spells per day. Or I guess you could keep it the way it was, and just use Bard level + Song Ghost level to determine the character's bardic music abilties (this seems to be more in the spirit of your PrC). The second way seems a little strange to me, because then you seem to be gaining both the class abilities of the bard class and the song ghost class as you go up (which was what you were doing under the original version, though it was written so it didn't seem that way).



  Ok, I overhauled those abilities, tell me what you think.



> If you pick the second way:
> 
> * For the Inspire Greatness ability, does the 2d6 damage apply for each use of the ability or for each person it affects? (I kinda assumed the former, but I want to double-check).



  Each use.



> * And this for Song of Freedom- The Song Ghost gains a +3 on caster level checks to break enchantments. Cost: 1d6+2 dmg? (Tried to model it after Countersong)



  I liked that.  So I used it.  

[quote* As the bard's Suggestion ability DC already increases with the bard's level for 3.5, maybe we can just turn this into a straight +2 on top? I personally thought the 2d6 dmg was a little excessive for enhancing a single spell for a mere +2 in the original but it's always your call. I was going to suggest (heh! nonmagically, of course) that the Suggestion could cost 1d6 dmg and the Mass Suggestion could cost 2d6 dmg.[/quote]  Changed that too.



> * I would like to point out that the _animal friendship_ spell (for the feral bonded spirit) no longer exists in 3.5. Perhaps _speak with animals_ instead? Or maybe a permanent _endure elements_ effect?



_Speak with animals_ sounds good.  Whee!



> * How does the Foot in the Grave immunity to stunning effects resolve with the stunning from a turn? Is a 3rd level or higher Song Ghost simply not affected? Maybe instead of being stunned, the Song Ghost could be staggered, or shaken, or sickened instead with a successful turning effect for 1d4 rounds?



  Stagger sounds good.

So, how am I looking now?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 23, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Isida, I was looking at your Negatai and thinking they are _really_ not worth the +1 ECL, especially when compared your standard fire, water, air, and earth genasi.
> 
> Getting a +1 bonus/5 levels to necromantic effects, unintelligent undead ignoring them, the ability to rebuke as a cleric 4 levels lower, chill touch 1/day does not make up for the loss of -2 to all saves, and reduced healing.
> 
> ...



  Well, the rebuking powers of a Negatai are more a last-ditch effort, or a way to help your friendly evil or neutral cleric by spending a turning attempt to aid their rebuking effort (from DotF)  It's meant more for taking care of the evil lich's minions that are commanded to attack him, then for him to take on the evil lich all on his own.  I certainly don't expect a 20th level Negatai rogue to be able to turn vampires!  However, a 20th level Negatai cleric of Nerull is something entirely different...

Anyways, here is the new and improved Negatai, now hopefully worthy of their +1 ECL.

*Negatai* - Negatia are quasi-genasi touched by the Plane of Negative energy (the energy that powers undead). The nature of negative energy imbues them with a certain amount of strength, but also makes them more susceptible to death. +2 Str, -2 Con. +1 racial bonus vs necromantic spells and effects, which increases every five levels. -1 racial penalty to all saving throws. Unintelligent undead will ignore a Negatai and won't attack them unless they attack first. 

A Negatai can rebuke undead as a cleric four levels lower than his current character level, or if the character already has the ability to rebuke undead, he may do so as if he were two levels higher. If the Negatai doesn't have levels in a class that grants turning abilities, they may rebuke 3 + Cha mod times per day.  If the Negatai has levels in a class that grants turning abilities, he gains extra turning attemps equal to his Cha mod that _may be used only on attempts to rebuke_.  

They also no not heal as fast as other races, with natural healing being slower (half the rate of normal creatures) and healing spells being less effective on them (-1 per die). They may cast _chill touch_ 3/day, and _command undead_ 1/day as a spell-like ability of a sorcerer of their character level.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Looks much better that way.
> 
> Plenty errors in there (I've noticed a handful immediately when browsing over it quickly), however, I'll point those out later.



  Uh oh, what did I miss?    



> Some people in that threat have noted how this is a bit mean for wizards... maybe this would work?
> 
> Just restrict permanent item creation feats (those which craft permanent items only), but allow those which craft temporary items (Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Wand, Craft Staff, etc).



  I'm of the opinion that this is a powerful class, and that a restriction against creating magic items is justified and fitting with the theme.  You can still take all the lovely metamagic feats if you're a wizard.  I mean, I'm only asking the character to not use a particular class feature in exchange for his spells lasting above and beyond the ken of normal wizards.  



> Re: Psionics - what kind of PrC would psionic characters take then?



  Well... I haven't written any yet... but I can.  Name me an overriding them.  I shall make a psionic prestige class.



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> Are we supposed to build something up together? So, more like we build our town/castle here, rather than I build my tower here, I build my keep here, etc? I think so (first one), but just to be sure.



  It's kind of like, we build the town/castle here, pacify the countryside, put some people in charge of it, move to a new place, wash, rinse, repeat until entire desired area is as you want it.   



> Ack, you know that some of the updates to 3.5 were fairly heavy, especially feats (Spellcasting Prodigy, Persistant Spell, etc), spells, magic items?
> 
> I could post the changes, if anyone wants to use some stuff from those books (only to the stuff that is going to be used, of course). Shouldn't be that hard, really, even if you don't have the book.



  Well, unless you want to post the necessary changes, we shall have to boldly struggle on without it... unless I break down and go buy it.    



> Leadership and Followers: Would it be reasonable for everyone to have Leadership? It kinda sounds like a very fitting feat, really.



  I don't mind, as long as we have the understanding that I'm not running huge-scale battles, and that your cohorts and followers will mostly serve for holding pacified territory and building stuff.



> BTW, what about other PrC, can we have another PrC plus one of yours (given a fitting concept)?



  That be fine.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Uh oh, what did I miss?




No biggies, just minor stuff (like bull's strength duration listed wrong).



> I'm of the opinion that this is a powerful class, and that a restriction against creating magic items is justified and fitting with the theme.  You can still take all the lovely metamagic feats if you're a wizard.  I mean, I'm only asking the character to not use a particular class feature in exchange for his spells lasting above and beyond the ken of normal wizards.




I'm actually not so sure, that it is _that_ powerful. I mean there are huge requirements, huge disadvantages and every single abilities further adds to those with huge costs. The benefits are mostly... nice, but hardly overpowering, especially coupled with those huge and plenty hindrances (which are even worse for a sorcerer, btw).

This class surely isn't a killer in combat... it will be more like... Combat!?
You handle that! Me and my 12 hit points stay faaaaar behind!



> Well... I haven't written any yet... but I can.  Name me an overriding them.  I shall make a psionic prestige class.




I must admit, I'd prefer to just kick psionics out the door, but I don't want to force my opinions on the rest of you. 

However, I don't think I'd want to play an arcane caster in a campaign with psionics, so I'd have to find something else then (maybe a psion, actually, so people can't accuse me of not having tested them anymore, when I say, that they are highly overpowered... ).



> Well, unless you want to post the necessary changes, we shall have to boldly struggle on without it... unless I break down and go buy it.




As I said, if anyone (who doesn't have the PGtF themselves) wants to have something from these books, just list it, and I can fill you in with the updates. Otherwise there is a lot of stuff that simply doesn't fit well with 3.5.



> I don't mind, as long as we have the understanding that I'm not running huge-scale battles, and that your cohorts and followers will mostly serve for holding pacified territory and building stuff.




Yeah, that's a problem with multiple cohorts. 

I'd probably want it for followers mostly, if it isn't needed, I would not take it then, but it certainly makes sense. 

My initial idea was a Sorcerer 6 / Incantatrix 4 / Endless 2 or Wizard 5 / Incantatrix 5 / Endless 2. The new metamagic abilities of the Incantatrix would work very well in combination with the Endless, I think. One problem there would be, that the Incantatrix gets a pretty useful ability at 5th, which requires the character to have a craft item feat (Wand or Staff); and of course, that you only know the old (3.0) Incantatrix. 

Well... with the XPH this "problem" doesn't really matter, anyways.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 24, 2004)

I'm at my brother's place.  Hopefully I'll be able to send Isida my character's info this weekend.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 24, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.




Thanks, Xael!  Are we using that book? I didn't see it in the list but I guess it would make a lot of sense....



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> I must admit, I'd prefer to just kick psionics out the door, but I don't want to force my opinions on the rest of you.




Here's one person you wouldn't have to force your opinions on.   Can't say I'm fond of them either.

Isida, the Song Ghost looks fine to me. The only other suggestion I was thinking of making was asking you if you'd be willing to switch the order of The Warrior's Spirit Memory II and Spirit Memory III abilities-- that is, the Warrior would grant martial proficiency at 4th, and a bonus fighter feat at 5th. The reason for this is because this would allow a Song Ghost the option of spending that bonus feat on a Weapon Focus in a martial weapon if he wanted. (Plus the order of learning weapon use, then a fighter technique seems more intuitive to me.)

And I guess I've pretty much settled on being a Song Ghost. I really like the Living Spell and was working on two different characters at the same time so I could wait until last minute to make the choice  but as I was going along, I realized the Song Ghost character was much more interesting. I'll put up the character sometime this weekend when I've got the history more fleshed out.

By the way, am I suppose to make the bonded ghost or are you? Do I roleplay him or do you?

Oh yeah, are we allowed to take the regional feats in FRCS even though we're not in FR?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Anyways, here is the new and improved Negatai, now hopefully worthy of their +1 ECL.
> 
> *Negatai* - Negatia are quasi-genasi touched by the Plane of Negative energy (the energy that powers undead). The nature of negative energy imbues them with a certain amount of strength, but also makes them more susceptible to death. +2 Str, -2 Con. +1 racial bonus vs necromantic spells and effects, which increases every five levels. -1 racial penalty to all saving throws. Unintelligent undead will ignore a Negatai and won't attack them unless they attack first.
> 
> ...




Yes, I would say that's considerably buffer and would justify the +1 ECL. The _command undead_ was a nice touch.  Out of curiosity, why the caveat on the extra rebuking attempts for a cleric negatai?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 24, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Yes, I would say that's considerably buffer and would justify the +1 ECL. The _command undead_ was a nice touch.  Out of curiosity, why the caveat on the extra rebuking attempts for a cleric negatai?



  Mostly so that if you had, for example, a Negatai cleric of Pelor, they wouldn't be a total turning madhouse with the increase in levels _and_ extra turning attempts per day.  He has to acknowledge his Negatai heritage by rebuking, instead of just getting the perk of the increased turning ability.  It's also a flavor thing for roleplaying.



> Isida, the Song Ghost looks fine to me. The only other suggestion I was thinking of making was asking you if you'd be willing to switch the order of The Warrior's Spirit Memory II and Spirit Memory III abilities-- that is, the Warrior would grant martial proficiency at 4th, and a bonus fighter feat at 5th. The reason for this is because this would allow a Song Ghost the option of spending that bonus feat on a Weapon Focus in a martial weapon if he wanted. (Plus the order of learning weapon use, then a fighter technique seems more intuitive to me.)



  I'm cool with that.



> And I guess I've pretty much settled on being a Song Ghost. I really like the Living Spell and was working on two different characters at the same time so I could wait until last minute to make the choice  but as I was going along, I realized the Song Ghost character was much more interesting. I'll put up the character sometime this weekend when I've got the history more fleshed out.



  Cool.  So we have a Bondblade, a Song Ghost, possibly an Endless...



> By the way, am I suppose to make the bonded ghost or are you? Do I roleplay him or do you?



  You can make him if you like, or if you're stumped, I'll do it.  Mostly you can roleplay him, but I may occasionally step in with some special knowledge or something.



> Oh yeah, are we allowed to take the regional feats in FRCS even though we're not in FR?



  Yes.

[quiote=Thanee]I'm actually not so sure, that it is that powerful. I mean there are huge requirements, huge disadvantages and every single abilities further adds to those with huge costs. The benefits are mostly... nice, but hardly overpowering, especially coupled with those huge and plenty hindrances (which are even worse for a sorcerer, btw).

This class surely isn't a killer in combat... it will be more like... Combat!?
You handle that! Me and my 12 hit points stay faaaaar behind![/quote]  Well, can you think of a way... Wait, just had a brainstorm...  Stealing a mechanic from the Blood Magus, how about the Endless can use those items creation feats, but only on himself.  For example, he can write a scroll on his skin, and the marks remain until he casts it.  Or he can make a potion and store it in his blood, and bleed himself to give it to someone else, or just use it himself.  So yes he can make stuff, but it has to be an intrinsic part of someone.  "I can make you that staff of frost, but I'm going to have to strap a few gems to your leg here..."    Does that make any sense?



> I must admit, I'd prefer to just kick psionics out the door, but I don't want to force my opinions on the rest of you.
> 
> However, I don't think I'd want to play an arcane caster in a campaign with psionics, so I'd have to find something else then (maybe a psion, actually, so people can't accuse me of not having tested them anymore, when I say, that they are highly overpowered... ).



  Well, I haven't heard anyone else clammering to play a psion, so maybe you won't have to worry about it.  



> As I said, if anyone (who doesn't have the PGtF themselves) wants to have something from these books, just list it, and I can fill you in with the updates. Otherwise there is a lot of stuff that simply doesn't fit well with 3.5.



  I think I'm just going to have to break down and get it because I have had people ask me if they can use stuff out of it in at least three other games of mine.



> My initial idea was a Sorcerer 6 / Incantatrix 4 / Endless 2 or Wizard 5 / Incantatrix 5 / Endless 2. The new metamagic abilities of the Incantatrix would work very well in combination with the Endless, I think. One problem there would be, that the Incantatrix gets a pretty useful ability at 5th, which requires the character to have a craft item feat (Wand or Staff); and of course, that you only know the old (3.0) Incantatrix.



  Well, see my stuff above and see if that makes it any more palatable.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I think I'm just going to have to break down and get it because I have had people ask me if they can use stuff out of it in at least three other games of mine.




Unless you are financially struggling, this is a good idea, I guess. 

The book is pretty cool, and if you already have the FR stuff, it makes most of this much more useful in 3.5. 



> Well, see my stuff above and see if that makes it any more palatable.




Hmm... not entirely sure about that. It doesn't seem to fit the concept well, or do you think it does? 

I actually think that item creation _does_ fit the concept of the Endless pretty well, since it is another way to make magic lasting.

And if anything, restricting Craft Wondrous Item (and maybe Craft Magical Arms & Armor) would be enough, since those are the only really good ones, anyways. 

You could allow to craft only spell completion and spell trigger items, as those are the ones most closely related to spellcasting. That would include all the feats, which classes get automatically, so you don't put them at an unfair disadvantage, especially since those classes (speaking mainly of the Wizard and the Incantatrix here, which both get or require such item creation feats) are perfectly suited to become an Endless IMHO. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Mostly so that if you had, for example, a Negatai cleric of Pelor, they wouldn't be a total turning madhouse with the increase in levels _and_ extra turning attempts per day.  He has to acknowledge his Negatai heritage by rebuking, instead of just getting the perk of the increased turning ability.




Oh, I got a little confused. Silly me, I thought the cleric wouldn't be able to use his extra rebuking attempts to power a divine feat like Divine Might or something like that. It never occurred to me a good cleric would have issues rebuking.  Duh.



> Cool.  So we have a Bondblade, a Song Ghost, possibly an Endless...




And Xael's Lightning Rod. 

Are there any ancient human languages in Low'verok? Particularly if they're pertinent to the area we're going to be in?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 24, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Just noticed that because the _Shocking Grasp_ spell has changed in 3.5, the _Kiss of Lightning_ and _Heart of Lightning_ abilities might need some minor changes. Mainly because _Shocking Grasp_ now has it's damage based on levels.



  Right, changed that.  

Thanee, I will be doing further revising of the Endless today to incorporate item creation.  So check it out.  

No real ancient human languages Sephiro, none that come to mind...


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## Xael (Jul 24, 2004)

Grr...

I'm having a very hard time deciding whether to go Wizard 10/Lighting Rod 2 or Wizard 5/Lightning Rod 7 route. Wizard levels would probably come in handy with building stuff, but...

Will have to make few more character builds to see how it turns out. 


EDIT: Decided to take max levels of Lightning Rod. Zzap!


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## Thanee (Jul 25, 2004)

Wow, talk about a change of direction there. 

One thing, I'd consider, is changing the 5th level Magical Artisan to an Item Creation bonus feat, so they can actually be used.

Here's a few minor errors, I've found. 

- Magic for Hours: Bull's strength (not strenght)
- Magic for Hours: Extended bull's strength duration is 2 minutes/level (not 20min/lvl)
- Arcane Blood: What about healing, that doesn't use dice? Vigor, Heal, for example.
- Lifeblood of Magic: loses (not looses)
- Lifeblood of Magic: Should be (Ex), I think (or (Su)?).
- (Sp): In general, I'm not sure, whether (Sp) fits well for most of the abilities. Seems more like (Ex) or (Su) to me.
- Magic for a Day: Mage armor cannot be made persistent. Try shield instead.
- Magic for a Month: Should be Magic for a Week now.
- Magic for a Week: "... the Endless can make his magic persist for a 1 day per caster level." (remove the a).
- Magic for a Week: I'd consider to leave the hp cost at 2x level or raise it to 3x level only. The advantage gained here, isn't that big, since you basically only gain the spell slot for a couple days compared to casting the persistent spell every day.

I think I'll go the wizard path, not the sorcerer, since it just seems to fit better to the PrC concept (besides making it much, much easier to qualify). 

So, Wizard 5/Incantatrix 5/Endless 2.

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 25, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Wow, talk about a change of direction there.
> 
> One thing, I'd consider, is changing the 5th level Magical Artisan to an Item Creation bonus feat, so they can actually be used.
> 
> ...



  Okiday, grammatical errors fixed, Magic for a Month reduced to 3x hit points, and I decided to keep the name Magic for a Month because it's keyed off of caster level, and by the time an Endless gets really up there in level, he could have things going for 20 days or so, so Month is closer to the actual time limit.  And it's allitertive!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 25, 2004)

Wa-hoo, Lightning Rod!  Zzzzap!!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 25, 2004)

Ok, your brave group of adventurers (who still need a name), recently fought a battle against a rogue adventuring group, known as The Swordbane Clan, in the employ of a cleric of Beshaba, who was using them as agents to spread ill-fortune throughout Low'verok.  When the dust settled, and your pay was collected, you were still left with this pile of gear to be distributed, all of which has been identified (either by yourself, or through the Adventurer's Guild, who do this service for a nominal fee).

*+3 beetle buckler* - This blue scarab beetle is the size of a buckler, and as you know, very adept at blocking ranged attacks.  It has a Reflex save of +10.  See Arms and Equipment Guide for more.

*The Book of the Haunted Trickster* – This book is made of ebony wood with a slipcase made from the hide of a doppleganger.  The pages are made of fine flakes of ivory, and inscribed with a beautiful, fluid hand.

The book contains the spells _Know Protections (MaoF), Reflective Disguise (Und), Create Magical Tattoo (PGtF), Death Armor (MaoF), Reverse Arrows (MaoF), Corpse Candle (T&B), Skull Watch (PGtF), Detect Metal and Minerals (RaoF), Backlash (MaoF), Fire Stride (FRCS), Shadow Well (MaoF), Darsson’s Potion (MaoF), Mass Reflective Disguise (Und), Wall of Dispel Magic (Und),_ and _Translocation Trick (MaoF)._

It is waterproofed, pungent, and has resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, and fire attacks.   It has fifty pages, 41 of which are used.  It has as hardness of 4, 6 hit points, and weighs 4 lbs.  

*Ring of the Lizard* – This ring is a small, braided leather cord that provides a constant +10 to Climb checks.  

*Storm Giant's Strength* - This is a gray leather belt with vari-colored stone studs all along its length.  It acts as a _belt of giant's strength +4_.

*Pearl of Sea's Wisdom* - This is a silver-colored pearl on a braided leather necklace.  It acts as a _periapt of wisdom +4_.  

*Goggles of Night* - Made of black leather with jet lenses.

*Stone of Good Luck* - A smooth, round, cat's-eye agate, this stone didn't look like much until you cast _detect magic_ on it...

*Staff of Healing* - This is carved from white ash and inlaid with stone runes in green.

*Staff of Surprises* - This appears to be an utterly normal quarterstaff made of ash, though when examined closely there are carvings of every size and description on it.  (Magic of  Faerun)

*Dartbane* - This longsword was made with the _ironwood_ spell, and is inlaid with small citrines along the hilt.  It is a _+1 keen, spellblade (magic missile)_ longsword.

*Shatterspike* - This strange weapon appears to be a longsword with a chain on the hilt that to a spiked flail head. seemingly carved out of obsidian, yet is as strong as steel.  Known as a gyrspike (S&F), it has been given several enchantments to make it easier to use.  It is a _+2 gyrspike_ that gives its weilder the free use of both the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (gyrspike) feat as well as the Improved Sunder feat.

*Plaugebane* - This ring is made from braided hair, and it acts as a ring of _disease immunity_ (Magic of Faerun).  

*Bow of Arcane Might* - Made of a strange bluish wood and carved all over with small arcane runes, this bow was taken from the Swordbane Clan's sorcerer.  

*Plate of the Golden Forest* - This magificient set of full plate armor is carved with a huge tree that starts at the boots and works all the way up to the helm.  It is _+3 bronzewood (A&E) full plate_.  

*Chitter the Rust Monster* - Once a mount for the gnome druid of the Swordbane Clan, Chitter is surprisingly tame and rather cute.  Fed copious amounts of scrap metal, he will even even avoid rusting someone's metal armor... if he's full.  Another friendly druid was able to figure out Chitter's commands, so he possibly could be ridden by some Small creature with no metal on them.

Ok, so there are your items.  If there's an item that everyone agrees is utterly useless to anyone, I will recycle it and find something else for you.

~~~

Hey guys, Monte Cook came up with a rather interesting tweak to the DR rules that I was pondering adopting.  Take a look and give me your vote.  New Damage Reduction Tweak

~~~

Finally, can everyone give me an idea on what their character will be?  I have a pretty good handle on what Thanee and Sephiro no Miko are working on, and I know exactly what Xael's doing.  I have a reasonably good inkling on what Emperor Valerian is up to.  Identity Crisis and Serpenteye, I need updates from you by Monday, at least just a "I'm thinking of going with X."  If not, I start calling up alternates.  

~~~

One last thing, I am now the proud owner of The Player's Guide to Faerun.  If anyone wants one of those regional feats, they can only take them as a first level character, okiday?


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## Xael (Jul 25, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Wow, talk about a change of direction there.



I've played too many high-level wizards lately. I'm not sure if the Lightning Rod build will be as effective, but at least it's cool.

...and now I save the 15,000gp that I spend on buying 5th and 6th level spells.  


I feel like I have an idea. Exotic Weapon Profiency: Nagaika. _Shocking_ Nagaika. 

More character builds...


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## Xael (Jul 25, 2004)

I would have a proposal: Make the Lightning Rod's _Kiss of Lightning_ ability to make weapon a _shocking burst_ one just use up one charge/daily use per round. At the moment, it doesn't seem to make much sense to use a standard action to get the quality to just one attack.

If that sounds too powerful, you could change it to just _shocking_.


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## Thanee (Jul 25, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> And it's alliterative!




Heh. Just noticed you actually had changed it to weeks in the table, but not in the text below. That was the sole reason, I've pointed it out. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 25, 2004)

@Xael: I actually didn't mean you, but the change of focus concerning item creation and The Endless... 

Anyways, going to do some character creation now... I've sketched up a rough outline so far, but I'm not nearly finished.


Re: DR - I don't think this is a mighty good idea, as it basically just removes the whole 3.5 DR system, since GMW again makes all DR obsolete at some point. What I never liked with the old DR was this all or nothing approach (which was more like nothing normally, in most cases DR could simply be ignored).

It might be ok, if the DR is halved against a weapon of the given power maybe?
And (optional) possibly quartered, if the weapon has an enhancement bonus TWO higher than given in the table?

This way, a mighty magic weapon is still able to punch through DR somewhat, but doesn't totally trump a weapon keyed specifically towards the type of DR.


Re: Group name - No ideas yet, tho it's probably best to have characters finished before we find a name... I'll see that I can post mine today.


Re: Items - What _is_ a Bow of Arcane Might? 

Book of Walls... Funky!
Chitter the Rust Monster... Heh, we have our own pet rust monster!



Bye
Thanee


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## Xael (Jul 25, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> @Xael: I actually didn't mean you, but the change of focus concerning item creation and The Endless...



Oh. My mistake. Wasn't really paying attention to the Endless discussion...



> Re: Items - What _is_ a Bow of Arcane Might?



Good question. And I can't find *Staff of Surprises* from Magic of Faerün.



I'm not really excited about Monte's DR rules.


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## Thanee (Jul 25, 2004)

Well, it's not like it wasn't fairly easy to be mistaken for a reply to your post, given that it directly follows it and the timely page break. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 25, 2004)

> Special - Must have made a spell permanent on yourself (see description of permanency) and on an object or area.




Question: Does a personal spell made permanent on my familiar via share spell count as the first?

Sooner or later, I'm going to make Arcane Sight permanent, anyways, so for now I could give my familiar a permanent Detect Magic, then.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 25, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I'd like this game, if it were to be played, mind you, to bit just a smidge gritter than normal.  To that end, I want to ban all the spells that create food and water (though purifying it would be ok), so that finding those kind of resources means something.




How about personal stuff, like a _ring of sustencance_, or a _travel cloak_?



> Also, I'd like to ban _continual light_, so that people either have to use the shorter-lived _light_ spell, dark/low-light vision, torches, lanterns, or sunrods, just to kind of take it home how far you are away from civilization.  You guys will _be_ the light in the dark.




Guess this means every form of permanent light sources (permanent dancing lights, Nchaser's glowing orb, everburning torch, etc)?

Bye
Thanee


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## Xael (Jul 25, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> How about personal stuff, like a _ring of sustencance_, or a _travel cloak_?



Well, they tend to have the banned spells as prequisites, so they'd be pretty hard to make.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 25, 2004)

*Cough*  Sorry, it's actually a Rod of Surprises, rather than a staff.  My bad.  The Bow of Arcane Might is in Arms and Equipment Guide.

And Xael hit it on the head with the other magic items.  Basically, as long as you guys have a few people actively looking for food and water, I'm not going to try to screw you over, it's just that every now and then you might have to go somewhere unexpected for food and whatnot.

Thanee, for the light souces, I don't mind if you make normally non-permanent spells permanent for light sources, I just wanted to get rid of the ubiquitous _continual light_.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 25, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Re: DR - I don't think this is a mighty good idea, as it basically just removes the whole 3.5 DR system, since GMW again makes all DR obsolete at some point. What I never liked with the old DR was this all or nothing approach (which was more like nothing normally, in most cases DR could simply be ignored).
> 
> It might be ok, if the DR is halved against a weapon of the given power maybe? And (optional) possibly quartered, if the weapon has an enhancement bonus TWO higher than given in the table?




I kinda agree with Thanee on the GMW point above and I liked the idea of using different weapon materials. Halving the DR isn't a bad idea tho'. I don't really buy Monte'e reasoning in his article about weapon pricing being broken and besides, what he didn't mentioned was that they dropped the DR #s on some of the monsters to compensate for the new system.



> Re: Group name - No ideas yet, tho it's probably best to have characters finished before we find a name... I'll see that I can post mine today.




I've been wracking my brain but it's hard to come up with a group name when we don't even have most of the members yet....

Edit: Just posted my character, though both mechanics and history are still incomplete...  Will work on him some more after I take a nap.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 25, 2004)

Well, I kind of like the alternate DR system because it does get rid of the "golf bag" thing.  Which I do think is a little silly, but hey.  We can try it with the half thing you guys suggested and see how that goes, if you like.


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## Thanee (Jul 25, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Well, they tend to have the banned spells as prequisites, so they'd be pretty hard to make.




Good point.  Too bad, I really like the travel cloak.



> Thanee, for the light souces, I don't mind if you make normally non-permanent spells permanent for light sources, I just wanted to get rid of the ubiquitous _continual light_.




I have circumvented this "problem" by choosing Evocation as my prohibited school. 

Where is that spell from, anyways?


Character stats are posted now, description is still in the works, tho, I'll post that once, I am finished with it. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Xael (Jul 25, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Good point.  Too bad, I really like the travel cloak.



Frankly, me too. It's just has style.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

Thanee, making a spell permanent on your familiar could fulfill the prerequisites for the PrC as long as your familiar doesn't die.  

Thanee, I was also looking over your character, and please note that Savage Species is not on the approved book list for this campaign, so _superior resistance_ is out I'm afraid.  "Splatbooks" consist of only Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith, Tome and Blood, Song and Silence, and Masters of the Wild.


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Oh, I see. Thought you meant all the standard rule books.

I guess researching a spell like this wouldn't work then either? 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Other than that, would it be possible to trade with the items we have found and which won't be used by anyone (before moving out, of course)?

 i.e. trade something of appropriate worth against a cloak of resistance +4 or a headband of intellect +4 (in which case, I'd just switch mine to the cloak, which has the same price). 

 Those saves really are pitiful without anything like that. 

 Guess the thirty-thousand-something gold pieces, that wandered into my spellbook are taking their toll... 



 @Party: From the items, Allyra would be mostly interested in the Stone of Good Luck (plus, if possible, something of appropriate trade value for the above). The Book of Walls is pretty fun and even quite fitting (she has learned her magic from a dwarf), altho most of the spells in there are either not useable by her (Evocation), or she has them already, but the biggest problem is, that it is simply too heavy for her to carry around without a Heward's Handy Haversack, since her belt can only carry items of 10 lb. or less - quite a few of them, tho. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Xael (Jul 26, 2004)

Concerning the treasure, Rezomael is really only interested in the belt of strength. 



...background and cohort to go and I should be ready.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 26, 2004)

I think Phaeder's bonded spirit would be interested in that belt of strength, but I doubt Phaeder would be. 

He mostly be interested in the goggles of night. And *maybe* the bow of arcane might, but only if I'd be able to slap the screaming property on it. It's kinda of a cool item but the mighty property does nothing for my character and he doesn't have the spell slots like a sorcerer to burn to get the extra damage. Those spells slot would be much more valuable to him (and the party) as healing than an extra one to three points of damage. The only other thing on the list would be the stone of good luck, but only as an alternate.

Incidentally, how are we going to manage to split up the treasure more or less evenly and/or fairly? Is that possible?


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Thanee, making a spell permanent on your familiar could fulfill the prerequisites for the PrC as long as your familiar doesn't die.



  Well, I certainly hope, this won't happen, but why would that be a problem, even if it happened?

  Isn't the requirement "must have made two spells permanent in the past", not "must have two active permanent spells"?

 BTW, I deducted 500 XP for the other permanent spell, but didn't list it, since it's probably somewhere, where it doesn't really matter, but I'll cover that in the background. 

 More BTW, the higher caster level and Dispel DC for the permanent Detect Magic come from the Spell Enhancer spell, which gives +2 caster level for one spell. It was made permanent at 10th level.

 When Allyra makes a spell permanent now, the Dispel DC would be 32 (only dispellable with 16th caster level or higher). That's at least some security for the thousands of XP. 

  Bye
  Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Incidentally, how are we going to manage to split up the treasure more or less evenly and/or fairly? Is that possible?



 I think we should handle it like this:

 Everyone lists what they want.

 Keeping an eye on the value, as long as noone else wants the item in question, just give it to them.

 As long as the items are useful for the party more than for the individual, they shouldn't be accounted and just be given to whoever can use them.

 For the items, multiple characters are interested in, give them to the ones that a) need them more and b) have been given less so far. Using some common sense to mix and match these conditions.

 Everything left over is put in the party hoard or traded away (if possible) to get some useful stuff mostly for those who havn't gotten so much yet, or for the whole party (like healing or supplies to build the stronghold). 

 In the end, treasure should be split roughly fair over time, but that doesn't have to be the case at every moment, since this is hardly doable, anyways. Next time the ones who have been given less so far reveive more to compensate.

 How does this sound?


 With the current items, I suppose some trading should be doable before we leave the civilization. 


 @Isida: One thing, which made me think here... not that I would really like it, but you should probably consider to ban _teleport_ as well, since it can screw a lot of the stuff you are looking for (i.e. teleport to nearest settlement to get supplies - Allyra alone could transport ~2500 lb. in one day this way, as long as the individual items weigh less then 10 lb.).  Altho, that also rules out the easiest way to trade items. :\

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

Yes, you can indeed trade the items no one else will be using, that's fine.

And yes Thanee, the requirements state you just have had to cast the permanent spells in the past.  But I sure hope you don't _want_ your familiar to die!    

And would everyone else cry if there were no _teleport_ spells?


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 26, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> I think we should handle it like this:
> 
> Everyone lists what they want.
> 
> ...




Sounds quite sensible.  I vote we keep that Staff of Healing as a party item then since it will likely benefit everyone. Everything else seems like it would only be useful to one person most of the time.



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> And would everyone else cry if there were no teleport spells?




Actually, have you guys taken a look at the 3.5e version of teleport? It's considerably different from the 3.0 version most notably: "You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent (see below) per three caster levels."

Also, distance is limited to 100 miles/level though I doubt that would matter much. 

So Allyra could only bring up to 4 other people with her, each carrying up to a max of their maximum load (which could be a whole lot or not very much, depending on the person's strength), instead of a flat poundage. It sounds like the designers tried to make the spell more of a people transporter than a 'cargo' tranport spell so perhaps there's not so many issues with letting it in now.

I don't know. Teleport is a handy, handy spell, and I will be sorry to see it go but it _does_ fit with the theme of the campaign. :\


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Ok, cool. Then it probably won't be much of a problem to get a decent cloak of resistance, I hope. Allyra's levels are really _optimized_ for a low Fort/Ref save, all three classes one level below the next plus. Doh! 

 Good thing, I'm not playing a combat mage... 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

What, you guys don't want to walk in the woods?  Explore your terrain?  Find the best streams?  Locate the best hunting grounds?  Step in moose dung?  Why on earth would you _teleport_ when you could do that?


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> So Allyra could only bring up to 4 other people with her, each carrying up to a max of their maximum load (which could be a whole lot or not very much, depending on the person's strength), instead of a flat poundage. It sounds like the designers tried to make the spell more of a people transporter than a 'cargo' tranport spell so perhaps there's not so many issues with letting it in now.



 The lb. listed above actually only is what fits into Allyra's Belt of Many Pockets during the four teleport trips she could do each day, altho, this is actually wrong, she can only do three of those (just added up all spell slots, including specialist, which don't work, of course  ), but ~1900 lb. is still quite a bit, especially, if you add whatever the other four persons could carry, which she can teleport with her. That would result in a few *metric tons* of equipment transported over 1200 miles each day. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 26, 2004)

Who was it that said, "Adventuring consists mostly of walking?" or something like that? 

That said, oh we do! We want to step in _aaaallll_ the moose cakes! But a trip back to civilization would be nice once in a while.

Hmmm... what about this? You could give the _teleport_ spell a M component of 2 or 4 Con points so we players only use it sparingly.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

Not a bad idea Sephiroth.  However, this was kinda supposed to be a test of your own resources, and it's not like if you have enough followers you can't have some supply lines.  Everyone else, what do you think?


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 26, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> The lb. listed above actually only is what fits into Allyra's Belt of Many Pockets during the four teleport trips she could do each day, altho, this is actually wrong, she can only do three of those (just added up all spell slots, including specialist, which don't work, of course  ), but ~1900 lb. is still quite a bit, especially, if you add whatever the other four persons could carry, which she can teleport with her. That would result in a few *metric tons* of equipment transported over 1200 miles each day.




Ehr, sounds like the problem then isn't so much the _teleport_ spell itself as all those handy haversack and bags of holding we're lugging around...


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Heh. Yep the _Bags of Holding_ certainly make a huge difference there. 

 But Teleport surely is the decisive factor here... Whatever you are missing, you can simply teleport into the next town and get it.

 Anyways... I removed Teleport and replaced it with Overland Flight now.

  Bye
  Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 26, 2004)

True, true. 

Ultimately, I have no real objections to banning teleport. Not that my bard can cast it anyways...  I guess we'll just have to be creative with our travel plans.


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Well, at least the other travel spells, like Phantom Steed, will have a decent use then. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

@Isida: After looking through my spell list again, and your spell guidelines, I've found four spells, that don't quite fit (plus a few from PGtF, mostly updated versions, but I suppose those are ok), namely Deeper Darkvision, Superior Darkvision, Shape Metal and Stone Metamorphosis.

If those can't be used, I'll replace them, of course. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Serpenteye (Jul 26, 2004)

I'm still here.   

I'd like to play a N Ranger(twf)/"The Grim", a coldhearted killer of the uncivilized humaniod and monstrous scum of the outer lands. A bit of a phycho, but not quite evil.
A ranger suits the theme of the campaign nicely, even though this character won't be a leader-type but more of an individualist.

What do you think, Isida?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

That could work, as long as you've found a way to work with the other characters.    That's all I ask.  What will you be playing, a dwarf?


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

A ranger would be pretty cool, actually. 

Wasn't there someone who wanted to play a druid also?

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

Yeah, Thanee I just wanted to keep the stuff just out of the listed books, and the Player's Guide to Faerun, because I have that now too.


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## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

No problem. I'll find something else. Just picked up everything, that was interesting and listed in PGtF, but since there is no explanation of these spells in there...

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

Ok, I haven't heard anything from Identity Crisis yet, so I start calling up alternates.  First alternate to post gets the spot!


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

Ah, I gets it.  Well, if it was listen in PGtF, and the spell is actually in a different source, that's cool.


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## Xael (Jul 26, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> And would everyone else cry if there were no _teleport_ spells?



*Sniff*

...sure, whatever. I couldn't cast them yet anyway.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 26, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> First alternate to post gets the spot!




Well CS is the first on the list, I can inform him tonight via AIM that he has the spot, if you want to run it like that... 

If not, you're still looking for a player as my dance card is kind of full right now.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 26, 2004)

First alternate who replies with a positive will get the spot, so I'm still waiting...


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 26, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> First alternate who replies with a positive will get the spot, so I'm still waiting...



Well, I guess I could always lock the thread out...   

(I will pass word to him when I see him tonight.)


----------



## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ah, I gets it.  Well, if it was listen in PGtF, and the spell is actually in a different source, that's cool.




Ah, ok. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Jul 26, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> ...as my dance card is kind of full right now...




That's why you have so little time for roleplaying. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 27, 2004)

Let's try posting again. (Tried earlier, and evidently it failed.  My brother's computer is sucky)

I know my cleric would sure like the keen longsword.  He'd use it really really well.  It would show the "Strength of Kord"TM  really well...  Any objections?

Oh, and Isida, I should be ready to email you my cohort in about... thirty minutes (as soon as I type up what I have scribbled on paper).  Obviously, the cleric won't be 100% done until I know whether people are ok with my request.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Okiday EV, that should be fine.  Anyone want to leap on the Shatterspike?


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 27, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> That's why you have so little time for roleplaying.




 Oh yeah my secert's out now...  Far to many ladies and not nearly enough time for them all...   

The Honest truth is sadly no one, not even the wife, will dance with me...  My size 13 (Eur 47) are a tad scary I guess.

Isida, CS has been informed.  (no ward one way or another.)


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Emperor Valerian said:
			
		

> I know my cleric would sure like the keen longsword.  He'd use it really really well.  It would show the "Strength of Kord"TM  really well...  Any objections?




Well... I actually planned on using _Shape Metal_ on it to form a nice round metal pole for my familiar to sit on, but I guess I can find something else, if you really want it. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

What, can't anyone find a use for the very utilitarian Rod of Surprises?  Anyone can use that, not just wizards.  A familiar could even sit on it I guess...


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

I guess that one is more of a fighter type item. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 27, 2004)

Cohort Finished.  I'll finish up Drakkon the cleric himself on pencil and paper until I can get internet access again.  Hopefully I can post his stuff later tonight, or tomorrow.

And for all you kiddies out there:  seven people wanting to use the same buggy computer = bad.  very very bad.


----------



## Serpenteye (Jul 27, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> That could work, as long as you've found a way to work with the other characters.    That's all I ask.  What will you be playing, a dwarf?




It did sound somewhat dwarfish, the bit about a psycho killer, but I think I'll make the character a human. Did we decide which region we would be cleansing? What kind of enemies are we most likely to encounter there, and in the general region of our home-country?
One of the prerequisites for The Grim is Death Blow (S&F), since I don't have the book I'd like to ask one of you to let me know what it does.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 27, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *+3 beetle buckler* - This blue scarab beetle is the size of a buckler, and as you know, very adept at blocking ranged attacks.  It has a Reflex save of +10.  See Arms and Equipment Guide for more.



How does this item work? Is it some sort of construct? Does it require a free hand to use it? How adept is it at blocking ranged attacks? (I don't own the AaEG)



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *Bow of Arcane Might* - Made of a strange bluish wood and carved all over with small arcane runes, this bow was taken from the Swordbane Clan's sorcerer.




And this bow?



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Hey guys, Monte Cook came up with a rather interesting tweak to the DR rules that I was pondering adopting.  Take a look and give me your vote.  New Damage Reduction Tweak




Looks great to me, much better than the official rules for DR.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> One of the prerequisites for The Grim is Death Blow (S&F), since I don't have the book I'd like to ask one of you to let me know what it does.




CdG as a standard action. 
Has Improved Initiative as a prerequisite.

The Bow of Arcane Might allows to channel arcane spells into extra damage (equal to spell level or something like that).

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Serpenteye (Jul 27, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> CdG as a standard action.
> Has Improved Initiative as a prerequisite.



That could be useful.   



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> The Bow of Arcane Might allows to channel arcane spells into extra damage (equal to spell level or something like that).




And that won't.


Thanks.


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

SCORE!

Is that slot open?  I'd like in.

My plan is for a Bard 5/Evangelist 5/Songheart 2 or Road Warrior 2

Basically I'm planning on being a missionary of Pelor .

So, is there room?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

What's an Evangelist?

The beetle buckler is basically a Tiny scarab beetle that you can let loose in battle.  It will defect one ranged attack a round, like the Defect Arrows feat.


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

Oops, double posted.  See following post.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

An Evangelist is from Complete Divine (I can post up the stats if you need them).

Basically, it's a divine style bard.  I think you get caster level progression (I'd have to check, more tomorrow) and bardic music progression.

In addition, you get abilities such as inspire hope (bonus to saves vs. fear), inflame the righteous (allies get flame shield), only half penalty for making a diplomacy check as a full round action, and at 5th level (it's a 5 level PrC) you can Convert someone (Will Save DC 10 + Evangelist Level + Cha mod), who is then treated as charmed for a long duration, and can become permanently a part of your faith.

I'm basically planning a missionary.  Convert the heathens, with the diplomacy check to back it up.  Wouldn't make him sing, but rather pump up Perform: Oratory and the like.  I might or might not give him Vow of Peace.

Here's a quick question:  Do Synergy bonuses stack (Specifically, from Bluff, Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty, and Sense Motive to Diplomacy).


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Ah.  Well, as you can see, Complete Divine is not on the list of approved books for this campaign.  Neither is Book of Exalted Deeds.  The books listed in the first post are the only approved books for this particular campaign.  

However, the synergy bonuses do stack.


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

Hmm.

Well, If there's a way to work out letting me use Evangelist (as I said, I can post the stats by tomorrow) that'd be nice (although probably not possible).

I'm sure if not I'll work out some way to get the same concept, probably just with pure bard levels and diplomacy checks.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

I'm sure you can do it with bard levels.    I'd rather not use anything in this campaign from books I don't have.


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

That does seem fair.

Okay, I'll have a Bard 10/Road Warrior 2 up by tomorrow hopefully.

I have a suggestion for what we should trade some items for.

Rod of Rulership (DMG), cost 60,000 and lets you command 300 hit dice of creatures for 500 minutes (doesn't have to be consecutive).


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Man... you'd have to trade in about a third of the value of your items for that, I think.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Guess we are kinda heavy on arcane magic... two (quite different) wizards and two bards? 

Doesn't Road Warrior work any other way (i.e. via rogue)?
I mean a second bard doesn't exactly "stack" well. 

That rod is beyond our starting limit (44k max per item), tho, guess we won't be able to get it before we start and afterwards trading will at least be difficult.

Also I don't really know what we would need that item for? Force our followers to work? It sounds kinda intrusive (that coming from the person with the Spell Focus: Enchantment, but you hopefully know what I mean). 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

I think the thing here is that our bards are quite different in style.

I know my focus is less on bardicness and more on conversion and leadership.  Really I could probably have done it with a cleric (and I still could), but that would be hard because I'd need to split between wisdom and charisma (as opposed to my current 24 charisma)

When you consider that I can take leadership, get a total of 49 followers, then use diplomacy to make them fanatic, and give them +2 to attack and damgae through bardic music.

Also, just for kicks, with a roll of 9 or better, I can, in one round, make hostile opponents helpful .

Hmm.  Now that I think of it, I could still pull off the 24 charisma and have 18 charisma too (w/item).  Not great for a cleric, but it'd do.  Then I'd take Forbiddence of the Divine and be a truly kickass turn monkey (which is good for being Pelor's servant).

Okay, I guess it's going to be a clerical missionary.

A quick question for Isida:  Would you allow a leadership variant that forgoes a cohort for some bonus to leadership to attract followers?  That way we wouldn't have such a massive party, and could have more of a following.


----------



## Xael (Jul 27, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Guess we are kinda heavy on arcane magic... two (quite different) wizards and two bards?



That is always a very, very good thing.  

Now, to build ûber-library-of-doom in the middle of the forest...


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

@Nac: Don't want to talk you out of your character choice or something, I just think some diversity wouldn't hurt (that's why I would consider rogue then, similar and equally good with diplomacy and that stuff if focused on Charisma, but also something very different - cleric is always good, too). But in the end, it's your personal choice, of course. Just something to consider. 

 LOL, I guess I'll be the only PC without Leadership (thought about it, but it simply wouldn't fit well, maybe a feat that she would aquire later, tho). I still have hopes for Serpenteye to join the club, however. 

  Bye
   Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Also, just for kicks, with a roll of 9 or better, I can, in one round, make hostile opponents helpful .



 I wouldn't be too sure about that. 

 The part which says "In some situations, this time requirement may greatly increase." certainly also applies to _rushed_ Diplomacy checks.

 There was a thread about this on another message board and the general consensous was, that it doesn't work that way.

 There are situations (like almost always when encountering outright hostile opponents, that is... using Diplomacy in combat, basically), where Diplomacy simply cannot be used at all, or at least takes considerably more time, which simply isn't available. This is not what Diplomacy is about. Diplomacy is not a combat skill (hey, even _charm_ spells have penalties when used in combat, and those certainly are a superior form of Diplomacy in some ways). At least I wouldn't expect to have a DM allow you to use Diplomacy in combat. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Hmm.  Now that I think of it, I could still pull off the 24 charisma and have 18 charisma too (w/item).  Not great for a cleric, but it'd do.  Then I'd take Forbiddence of the Divine and be a truly kickass turn monkey (which is good for being Pelor's servant).




You meant 18 Wisdom maybe? 

Oh crap... I guess I'd better stay away at least 60' away from our missionary then, especially when he starts pulling out that holy symbol.  ("Did Feegle's character just turn Phaeder?" "....Sure looks like it...."  ) Plus, I don't think you'd appreciate me sucking up 12 HD worth of your turning damage.

As a side note, it'd be kinda interesting to have a cleric of Pelor in the party seeing as how they usually hate undead and my character detects as one....


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

Character builds, character builds... since Nac Mac Feegle wants to be the party's diplomacy machine, I think I'll have my bard concentrate more on his other Cha skills....

On a side note, I think I can get up to a whopping +5 morale bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls for inspire competence (with a bit of pain/hit point loss involved but Phaeder's probably a bit of a masochist when it comes to his music anyway).... Too bad our party seems to be mostly spellcasters at this point which doesn't do diddly-squat for them. :\

But that's what _harmonic chorus_ and _hymn of praise_ is for, I guess.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Yeah Nac Mac, you're _not_ going to turn human-hating orcs into friendly bunnies in six seconds, sorry.  You'll just have to do it the hard way.  

And Sephiroth - He has to be targeting in your direction for you to get turned.  So no worries.  

Remember, we start tomorrow people.  Please get your characters up, a name decided on, and your gear distributed.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Too bad our party seems to be mostly spellcasters at this point which doesn't do diddly-squat for them. :\




There seem to be two fighter types at least (plus maybe some cohorts ).

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Yeah, we have both a Bondblade (with barbarian levels) and Grim with ranger levels, plus cohorts.

I'd rather not try to do the "more followers instead of a cohort" thing, Nac Mac.  Not everyone's cohort has to fight.  And as I said, I will _not_ be running large-scale battles, because those are confusing enough on a battlemat, and I have no map-making skills, so... no.  Just make yourself a cohort if you're taking leadership and have him/her herd your followers around.  Hopefully you guys brought some organizing-type people along...


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

I plan to have everything finished tonite.

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

So let's see, it looks like we've got a wizard/lightning rod, a wizard/incantatrix/endless, a cleric/barbarian/bondblade, a cleric/forbiddance of the divine, a bard/song ghost, and a ranger/grim, I think. Well, we're definitely a spellcasting heavy group.

Hmmmm... names. Uh.... Indomitable Order of Thaumaturgic Might...? Ugh. I'm _not_ good at coming up with names. :\


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Hey guys, from the looks of things, it seems that no one will be able to use the Book of Walls, so I'm going to switch it for something else.  Go check that post.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Hey guys, from the looks of things, it seems that no one will be able to use the Book of Walls, so I'm going to switch it for something else.  Go check that post.




Uhm, which post? The one where you originally posted all the items in the pot (#65)? Because I did, and the Book of Walls is still there....

By the way, here's what I've gathered as a list of first choices people have made claims on so far from items in the pot:

Xael: belt of strength +4
Thanee: stone of good luck
Emperor Valerian: Dartbane
Sephiroth no Miko: goggles of night
Serpenteye: ?
Nac Mac Feegle: pearl of wisdom +4

Party item: staff of healing


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Okiday, I just changed it, give it another whirl!


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

For my items, I'd really like the pearl of wisdom (that'd let my have 20 wis, very helpful that).  Also I can keep hold of the staff of healing and use it as needed (divine spells and all that).

Oh well, if I can't make raging monsters happy, I can at least convert the unfaithful and all that.  Also, Isida, the three enemies of god I'm looking at are Heretic Priests, Heretic Soldiers, and Heretic Wizards.  Do those fall within the boundaries of the ability?

Mmm, turn check +11, turning damage 2d6 + 22, and greater turning once a day.

I think I might make all of my followers experts and have them be builders and talkers, not warriors.  Missionaries and Artisans.

Hmm, for party names I'm dry at the moment.

I should have my guy up by tonight, and the cohort a bit later.

Isida, there's a class from the miniatures handbook called the Marshal, it's available on the wizards site at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b, I'd like to use that for a cohort maybe.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

I'd like you to narrow your choices more than "heretical wizards."  Maybe "heretical orc wizards" or something like that.

As for what's out there... well that's why you're going!  There are rumors of dragons, gnoll hoards, trolls, and giant clans.

And I _still_ am _only_ using classes and whatnot from my listed sources.  No exceptions.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> For my items, I'd really like the pearl of wisdom (that'd let my have 20 wis, very helpful that).  Also I can keep hold of the staff of healing and use it as needed (divine spells and all that).




Updated the list above. 



> I think I might make all of my followers experts and have them be builders and talkers, not warriors. Missionaries and Artisans.




That actually would work well with me. I was planning to have most of my followers be warrior-types, on account of the fact that my bonded spirit is a fighter type, and has been not-so-subtly "influencing" my character to attract more martial followers. So your followers can build the town and my followers can guard it!


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

Okay, two quick questions.

One: Before I pick my enemies of god, can I get an idea of what we expect out there.  Are there humans, orcs, gibbering monsters from the abyss, you get the idea.

Two: When turning, may I just choose to turn an enemy of god.  Specifically, say I'm facing an Orcish Cleric of Gruumsh, and I want to incinerate him with holy power, but not immolate my song-ghost companion.  May I choose just to turn Heretical Orcish Priests and not undead, or do I turn all or nothing?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

If you're turning an Enemy of God, then you just turn your enemies.  If you're turning undead, you don't turn your chosen Enemies.

As for what's out there, I just posted that.


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 27, 2004)

Okay, so I've got giants, gnolls, and trolls as my three probable enemies of god I think.  Does that work?


----------



## Xael (Jul 27, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> That actually would work well with me. I was planning to have most of my followers be warrior-types, on account of the fact that my bonded spirit is a fighter type, and has been not-so-subtly "influencing" my character to attract more martial followers. So your followers can build the town and my followers can guard it!



...I'm planning on having all my followers (only 8, but anyway) be wizards. Oh well.  

And I decided not to bother with a cohort yet.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

Uhm, Isida? Could I trouble you for some help on my bonded spirit? I figured that his quest would have somewhat to do with the wilderness area that we're going to (otherwise those _geas_ penalties would suck after a while ). But you obviously have a better idea than I of what's out there. So I was thinking maybe you should come up with what his quest is, instead of me. It'd probably integrate better into your campaign too....


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Got one rather simple idea for a name... *The Hex*.

It has all sorts of implied meanings, like the number 6, cohesion, structure, or magic. It has more meanings than letters. 

And we could have a simple, thus easily reckognized sign. 

Or, with some color thrown in, like *The Purple Hex* (purple being a subtle hint at wealth (which is probably what we strive for fame and wealth ), since purple was the most expensive color to make clothes from (w/o magic, that is in our real world)).

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> ...I'm planning on having all my followers (only 8, but anyway) be wizards. Oh well.




Hmmm.... I thought followers could only be NPC classes or something like that? I could be wrong though. And if I am, well, wizards can be really useful!


----------



## Xael (Jul 27, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Got one rather simple idea for a name... *The Hex*.



I really like that. No colors, just The Hex.



			
				Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Hmmm.... I thought followers could only be NPC classes or something like that? I could be wrong though. And if I am, well, wizards can be really useful!



In 3.0, they had to, in 3.5, they can be PC classes (I think). And well, they can cast _Light_ spell (or something similar) quite many times at least.


----------



## Serpenteye (Jul 27, 2004)

I've taken another look at your Prestige Classes Isida, and I think I have changed my mind about which class I want to play. The Ancient Mother is a lot cooler than the Grim, and a far better team-player. Besides, I've probably played too many psychotic killers lately anyway


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Sephiroth, I'll ponder on your spirit's quest.  Perhaps he was an explorer for his lord and died before he could get there.  So he feels a need to explore the Lands Beyond before he can rest, despite the fact that his lord died decades ago.  Maybe he wants you to send some wealth back to the home estate as proof that fulfilled is promise.  How does something like that sound?


----------



## Serpenteye (Jul 27, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> I really like that. No colors, just The Hex.




Yes, it's very Hexy


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I've taken another look at your Prestige Classes Isida, and I think I have changed my mind about which class I want to play. The Ancient Mother is a lot cooler than the Grim, and a far better team-player. Besides, I've probably played too many psychotic killers lately anyway



  Rock on!  Can't wait to see your character.  Hey, you want _Shatterspike_ for her?


----------



## Serpenteye (Jul 27, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Rock on!  Can't wait to see your character.  Hey, you want _Shatterspike_ for her?




No.  

I guess I could pick up the Staff of Healing.

-

One little problem (in a very cool class) is the prerequisites. The class can only be taken at 8th level, and I can therefore only get half of all the Mothery Goodness of the class for my character. Perhaps the skill-rank-requirements could be lowered somewhat?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 27, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Got one rather simple idea for a name... *The Hex*.




I like it a lot too.  Non-color version, that is. Much better than my attempt.



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sephiroth, I'll ponder on your spirit's quest. Perhaps he was an explorer for his lord and died before he could get there. So he feels a need to explore the Lands Beyond before he can rest, despite the fact that his lord died decades ago. Maybe he wants you to send some wealth back to the home estate as proof that fulfilled is promise. How does something like that sound?




Thanks for the help, Isida! 

Sure, that could work. Maybe there'd be a particular region he wants to explore (giants! dragons!   ). I had been thinking he was an Barbarian, but he could have levels in Ranger as well (not that it really matters, game-wise... it's just for me trying to get a sense of how to play him).


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> No.
> 
> I guess I could pick up the Staff of Healing.
> 
> ...



  Um... nope.  (Though thanks for the compliment!   )   It's supposed to be taken at higher levels, to simulate the fact that the Ancient Mother did a lot of adventuring prior to taking this PrC.  Don't worry about the number of levels, poor Thanee only has two levels in her chosen PrC.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Yep, requirements are a bit on the heavy side there... 

Technically as a wizard I could have taken a 3rd level, actually, I started out with sorcerer, who wouldn't have that liberty, but wizard just fits better with all the studying. Besides, the 3rd level of The Endless isn't exactly thrilling. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 27, 2004)

Serpenteye and Nac Mac, can you guys get your characters up tonight?


----------



## Thanee (Jul 27, 2004)

Are there any giants near Citadel Amber?

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Serpenteye (Jul 28, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Serpenteye and Nac Mac, can you guys get your characters up tonight?




I can finish most of the mechanics, not the background, appearance and personality. The animal companion, cohort (yes, I'm taking Leadership ) and followers will also have to wait.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

Yes, yes there are.  Storm, stone, and the occasional fire giant.  Sometimes you get odder giants, like fog giants, but they're very rare.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

Are there also human settlements nearby (i.e. a town or village)?

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

Oh, good news.  I have a picture of Low'verok made for my by a player of mine on a different board who goes by the handle of peteyfrogboy.  So now you can see a pretty map.

Low'verok Map


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

Yes, lots of them.  The entire area around the Sea of Song is pretty heavily populated because it's a free trade zone.  There's some places in the mountains, including other, smaller dwarfholds, as well as larger villages, towns, and cities near the shore.  Just make up a name.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

A pretty _small_ map, you mean... (you linked the thumbnail) 

Ah, that works... just change the thumb=1 into thumb=0 in the above link. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 28, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> There seem to be two fighter types at least (plus maybe some cohorts ).
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Yeah... my cleric can crack heads with ease (once I get him finished).


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

Guys, if you're short on time for your cohorts and whatnot, you could use Jamis' Buck's NPC generator to get some of the basics down quickly.

http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 28, 2004)

Okay, I think my guy's up now.

One quick question to Isida.  Could I have enemy of god: Evil Priests?  I'd like the whole blast clerics of other faiths into oblivion.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

You could chose "Clerics of Hextor" or something if you like


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 28, 2004)

Finished Drakkon.  I'm going to go over the Rogue Thread again tomorrow, after I get home.  

And is it alright if I use the _Dartbane_ as my bondblade?  If not, I'll make the necessary changes tomorrow after I get back to my own computer.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 28, 2004)

Cohort (Paladin 10, good meat shield with shield other prepped) up.

Some more questions:  Do Gnolls worship Hextor or Gruumsh more often, and can I select Giants as an enemy, or do I have to be more specific.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

You would have to select a specific kind of giant.

Gnolls would worship Erythnul, the god of slaughter, actually.  

EV - I updated the Bondblade to 3.5, so check the most recent link!


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 28, 2004)

Okay, I think I've gotten my guy done.  I have up my cleric, his paladin cohort, and the paladin's mount.  I'm beat for tonight.  Tomorrow, I'll get up my followers and my background/appearance.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Okay, Phaeder himself is pretty much done, except for some minor equipment that I will mop up tonight. Got his bonded spirit mostly done, except for the history. Since both Nac Mac and EV have their cohorts with them and Isida, you've indicated you don't want a massive battle, I think I'll just leave Phaeder's cohort out of it for now. I don't think I'd be able to finish stat-ing him out tonight anyways. Either we can say we left him holding the fort (if we even have one) or Phaeder has yet to recruit one among the beasties.  I kinda like the second idea, myself.

I can put the googles of night down in his equipment list, yes?

What are we doing with the other stuff that's not been claimed yet? Shall we do a second round of choices, starting with the person who had the lowest value item for their first choice? (Though I don't think Serpenteye has picked anything yet.)

Nac Mac, I was looking at Shal and I noticed under a bunch of his skills you have his Cha bonus at +7, but his listed Cha mod is only +6. Also, both the circlet of persuasion and the choker of the missionary give a competence bonus to Diplomacy so they don't stack. I think his Diplomacy skill would only be +47, not +51. (Still really, really impressive though....  )


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## Xael (Jul 28, 2004)

Ok, so Rezomael and Shal Lightbringer have the Landlord feat, and everybody except allyra have Leadership. Whoa.



Isilda, did you see my proposal for the Kiss of Lightning ability? Or was it that bad?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Ok, so Rezomael and Shal Lightbringer have the Landlord feat, and everybody except allyra have Leadership. Whoa.




Yep. Apparently we're leading a little exodus out into the wilderness....  At last count, I think we have a total of 130 followers between the whole party!


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> I would have a proposal: Make the Lightning Rod's _Kiss of Lightning_ ability to make weapon a _shocking burst_ one just use up one charge/daily use per round. At the moment, it doesn't seem to make much sense to use a standard action to get the quality to just one attack.
> 
> If that sounds too powerful, you could change it to just _shocking_.



  Ok, I'm not quite sure if I understand you here.  Do you want one use to last for several rounds?  Or the ability to use many charges back-to-back?


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## Xael (Jul 28, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok, I'm not quite sure if I understand you here. Do you want one use to last for several rounds? Or the ability to use many charges back-to-back?



I'm currently understanding that it works something like this: Activate (standard action), hit once (spend charge), reactivate (standard action). 

I'd prefer it to work like this: Activate (standard action), take one use/day per round of operation.

Don't know if I've misunderstood something.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

Also Nac, cross class skill ranks are max 7 (well 7.5 - 15 skill points) at this level.

And yeah, items always give competence bonus to skills, so the circlet won't help any.

Oh, and you have two cloaks.  Make the resistance one a vest (as in DotF), maybe?
And you should change the boots to a belt or shirt, I think, because of body slot affinity.

Also, you learned Restoration, but you don't seem to have the material component for the spell. Holy Symbol might also be useful. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

About items, if anyone wants more than one item, just say so... doh! 

I have added the Stone of Good Luck and a Vest of Resistance (which has to be traded with something, but I hope there will be something left to do so ).

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Isida, can the Bow of Arcane Might be improved with special weapon abilities like shock or whatever? And if it can, how is that priced?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Also Nac, cross class skill ranks are max 7 (well 7.5 - 15 skill points) at this level.




Actually, I think in his skills entries the #cc ranks means how many points he's spent, not how many ranks he has in that skill. If you look at his Intimidate for example, Shal has a +14 total modifier: +4 from ranks (hence 8 cc), +3 from circlet, and +7 from Cha. (Well, the Cha needs to be corrected, but you get the idea). So I think he's okay.


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## Xael (Jul 28, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> About items, if anyone wants more than one item, just say so... doh!



Well, if nobody wants that *Ring of the Lizard*, Rezomael could use it, but we coud of course just sell the not-so-useful stuff. Money is always useful.


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 28, 2004)

I actually did mean the ranks I spent, which was why I listed it as cc.

Will correct charsima and circlet overlap, I was short on sleep and making too many changes.


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## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

Ah, ok, nevermind then. 

 I always list the actual ranks and write cc behind them, so I know they are "worth" 2 SP each, just assumed you had done the same here. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Isida, can the Bow of Arcane Might be improved with special weapon abilities like shock or whatever? And if it can, how is that priced?



 I'd think that it works like any other weapon, IIRC the bow is listed as a +1 bow, the arcane might property seems to be added seperately (like they do it with some stuff in 3.5 now, i.e. glamor or stealth armor), so adding another +1 enhancement would add 6k.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 28, 2004)

Okay, I've got background/personality up, as well as my followers.

Isida, I'm having my followers be craftsmen/artisans, and I'm planning on using them to build my stronghold (whenever I manage to).  I think that is a 33% discount, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Stronghold wise, I think we have 200,000 in allowance between the two people who have it.  I know I'm sinking a lot into luxury chapels .


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## Xael (Jul 28, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Stronghold wise, I think we have 200,000 in allowance between the two people who have it. I know I'm sinking a lot into luxury chapels .



Ah. I was thinking about building a library/laboratory complex with some of the money (I mean, we have 2 bards and 2 wizards...). Fortunately we can get moats and hewn stone walls for free because of spells.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Might I suggest we spend some of the money we get from selling stuff we don't want in the pot for a _lyre of building_? It's pretty cheap (13,000 gp) and will save a lot of time and money on our part in the long run for the construction of our keep and whatnot.



			
				Xael said:
			
		

> Ah. I was thinking about building a library/laboratory complex with some of the money (I mean, we have 2 bards and 2 wizards...). Fortunately we can get moats and hewn stone walls for free because of spells.




Actually, we only have one bard. Nac Mac decided to go with a cleric instead. But that said, we do have 2 wizards, 1 bard, 1.5 clerics (EV's character has 6 levels in cleric), and 1 druid so... lots of spellcasters. Yeah. A library would be really nice....


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

Done with background. 

 I have included some veeery rough stuff about the group (we have to start somewhere ), I guess everyone can just add something to it in their respective backgrounds.

 Bye
 Thanee


----------



## Xael (Jul 28, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Might I suggest we spend some of the money we get from selling stuff we don't want in the pot for a _lyre of building_? It's pretty cheap (13,000 gp) and will save a lot of time and money on our part in the long run for the construction of our keep and whatnot.



I couldn't agree more.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

Sephiroth - Like Thanee said, pretent the bow is a +1, and price it from there if you want to improve it.

Xael - I'm cool with your suggestion for the Lightning Rod.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Righty-o. I'll take the Bow of Arcane Might then, if no one else wants it. That, along with the Goggles of Night, puts the treasure Phaeder has received from the pot up to 20,600 gp total, if anyone is keeping track.


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## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

Yep, _Lyre of Building_ would be useful. Already listed that a while back. 

Stuff I'd like to have... _Stone of Good Luck_ is a whopping 20,000, and a _Vest of Resistance +4_ would be 16,000 (if that's too much, maybe downgrade to +3?), well we'll see how much value we actually have for trading, eventually.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Thanee, I meant to mention this a little while back but it slipped my mind until now. There's errata for the 3.5e MM, you know? In it, it says that ravens (among other animals) get the Weapon Finesse feat as a bonus feat, and gets the Alertness feat as its 1st HD feat. So your raven familiar should have Listen +5, Spot +7 and the Alertness and Weapon Finesse feats. It's pretty minor, but I thought I should let you know.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

The In Character thread is up!  http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1678700#post1678700
Serpenteye, I need a name and character background for your ASAP!


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

Ah, good to know. Thank you Sephiroth! 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

*Loot distribution*

Here's the list with the loot again, please say what you would want from it, everything else will be sold or traded away!

    If you want/need anything specific, which we should trade for, please list as well!

    TRADES:

    Party: _Lyre of Building_
    Allyra: _Vest of Resistance +4_


    TREASURY:

Link with item description

*+3 beetle buckler* (14,600 gp) - Trekt Loreseeker (for cohort)
*The Book of the Haunted Trickster* (8,000+ gp) – for TRADE
*Ring of the Lizard* (10,000 gp) – Rezomael
*Storm Giant's Strength* (16,000 gp) - Rezomael
*Pearl of Sea's Wisdom* (16,000 gp) - Shal Lightbearer
*Goggles of Night* (12,000 gp) - Phaeder
*Stone of Good Luck* (20,000 gp) - Allyra
*Staff of Healing* (27,750 gp) - Party property
*Rod of Surprises* (21,600 gp) - for TRADE
*Dartbane* (~ 14,000 gp) - Drakkon Cuspis
*Shatterspike* (~ 24,000 gp) - Trekt Loreseeker
*Plaugebane* (8,000 gp) - for TRADE
*Bow of Arcane Might* (8,600 gp) - Phaeder
*Plate of the Golden Forest* (19,650 gp) - Shal Lightbearer (for cohort)
*Chitter the Rust Monster* (~ 5,000 gp) - cared for by forest gnome druid follower of Trekt Loreseeker

 The spells from the book could be copied before it is traded away, I suppose. It seems quite reasonable to me, to trade the three leftover items for the two we wanted to have (_Lyre of Building_ and _Vest of Resistance_). They are worth quite a bit more, so that should work out, I think. 

 TOTAL VALUE BY CHARACTER:

 38,600 gp - Trekt Loreseeker
 36,000 gp - Allyra
 35,650 gp - Shal Lightbearer
 26,000 gp - Rezomael
 20,600 gp - Phaeder
 14,000 gp - Drakkon Cuspis

    Bye
    Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 28, 2004)

Oh hey, Isida, you might want to put a link to the nice map of Low'verok you have in the first post of the In Character thread too so we don't have to hunt through this thread to find it.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 28, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Serpenteye, I need a name and character background for your ASAP!




Your wish is my command. 

Alessandra is a bit nearer to completion. (Most of the background is done. It's succinct, but sufficient.)

Btw, I can take the Buckler, unless anyone else wants it.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 28, 2004)

I'd love the armor for my cohort (paladins love full plate mail).

A lyre may be unnecessary, as I think my followers can handle all construction cost.


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## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

BTW, Nac...



> Tabitha Sunbearer
> Female Human Paladin 10
> Alignment: Lawful Good
> Height: 5' 14''
> Weight: 107lbs




Isn't that a bit... uhm... _light_ (esp. with natural Str/Con of 16)!? 

Besides, 5' 14" would be 6' 2", or not?

This might help 

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> TREASURY:
> 
> Link with item description
> 
> ...



  Ok, here are the prices, or approximate prices of the unclaimed items.


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 28, 2004)

Ok... Drakkon has been upped to 3.5 Bondblade.

Hmm... I don't think either my guy or his cohort would have need of any of the remaining items.  Chitter the Rust Monster might be an interesting tool for him to demonstrate while "Strength given by Kord" is important, but I think its appetite for metal would become... onerous.

As for requests for buildings and the like, I think Drakkon's request would be for a central courtyard of somekind (perfect place to hold contests of... you guessed it... strength), and likely some simple sleeping quarters.  And an armory, or course.

I doubt he's going to want funds to build a formal temple of anykind... more than likely a huge chunk of his time is going to be spent wandering, showing feats of strength and trying to draw converts (as well as helping out other party members... after all, the strength of Kord requires fellowship).  I'm imagining a religion like Kord probably has no care whether its festivals and "services" occur indoors or out (correct me if I'm wrong about the Kord followers in Low'verok, Isida).  

Also, ISida, does your homebrew have any already occuring festivals to Kord, or is there a little leeway on that for me?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 28, 2004)

There's a few festivals of Kord on the official calender, but since Kord is a chaotic god, the priests have been known to say "to heck with the calenders" and hold festivals whenever they want.  Almost anyplace is a place for Kord!


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 28, 2004)

Good... fits right in with Drakkon's personality!


----------



## Thanee (Jul 28, 2004)

@Isida: The prices for the other items would be good to know as well (for fairness of distribution and all that).

BTW, that doesn't mean we have to tally up the prices all the time, but it's a good thing to at least keep an eye on those, I guess.

Erm... _Shatterspike_ ~4,000gp !? I guess feats should be a tad more pricey in general. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 29, 2004)

I don't know the pricing for feats, nor did I feel like looking them up.  The _Shatterspike_ I based it on... wait, now that I think of it I think it should be twice that, 8,000.  My bad.

As for the other things... man, you're going to make me go dig out all those prices?  Just take what's useful for each person.  A 21,600gp staff that you use four times in the cource of an adventure is really less valuable than the +1 longsword you use in every fight.


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## Thanee (Jul 29, 2004)

Of course, but I just think it's most fair to at least somewhat look at the prices (especially if we are trading for some stuff then). 

Have added most in my post above (only three missing ).

About feats... I doubt there is a fixed cost, actually, as they are so different.

Bye
Thanee


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## rangerjohn (Jul 29, 2004)

EV the animal buff spellls are second level.  You have them chosen for first level spells.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 29, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> BTW, Nac...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well, I think the problem there is that I added a 1 by accident (should be 5' 4").


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## Emperor Valerian (Jul 29, 2004)

rangerjohn said:
			
		

> EV the animal buff spellls are second level.  You have them chosen for first level spells.




Fixed.  Thanks for pointing it out.  I came up with the character and typed everything in the midst of a chaotic situation in terms of D&D and computing... visits to family while trying to come up with a character can sometimes be... interesting would be a good word.


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 29, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Here's the list with the loot again, please say what you would want from it, everything else will be sold or traded away!
> 
> *+3 beetle buckler* (?? gp) - Alessandra
> *The Book of the Haunted Trickster* (8,000+ gp) – ?
> ...




I think I can plug in a few of those numbers. A +1 beetle buckler from A&E is 6,600 so a *+3 beetle buckler* would be around 14,600 gp. The *Bow of Arcane Might* is 8,600 gp (straight from A&E). *Plate of the Golden Forest* is 19,650 gp (1650 gp for mw full plate +9,000 gp for bronzewood material + 9,000 gp for +3).

Bronzewood armor is mostly useful to druids as it allows them to wear heavy armor without breaking their oath. It doesn't provide much of a bonus otherwise (it weighs 10% less than equivalent metal armor and its ACP doesn't apply to Hide checks in woodland environments).


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 29, 2004)

Uh, that price on the *Shatterspike* still seems _really_ low to me considering it's a _+2 weapon_ that grants 2 feats. (A normal +2 weapon is already 8,000 gp).

Uhm, also, a gyrspike is a double weapon... Isida, are both of those heads (the longsword end and the flail end) at a +2? 'Cause then the base price should be 16,000 gp, not including whatever the feats may cost.


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## Thanee (Jul 29, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Well, I think the problem there is that I added a 1 by accident (should be 5' 4").



 That's certainly quite a difference. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 29, 2004)

Isida, I have a few questions about a song ghost communicating with his bonded spirit. Do they communicate telepathically or verbally (or both)? Can other people hear the spirit when he talks to the song ghost (and is not manifested)?

Also, though it doesn't matter for my character right now, what would the DC be for special attacks manifested through the ghostly power ability at 6th level?

And ehr, one final thing. Does my ghost want simply to explore the Lands Beyond in general or is there a particular site or area you have in mind for him that he's looking for? (I dunno, maybe something like Ponce de Leon trying to find the Fountain of Youth in FL.)


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 29, 2004)

The Song Ghost and the spirit communicate telepathically, though if the Song Ghost allows, the bonded spirit can speak through him, in his own voice.

Your ghost mostly just wanted to explore, and find wealth and riches for his lord.  It was the lure of the Great Unknown that lead to his first death.  

And for the Shatterspike - ARGH!  I really hate the fact that I got lazy once and didn't write junk down.  Ok, call Shatterspike around 24,000gp or so.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 29, 2004)

Sounds reasonable.

That weapon is a crime, anyways, we should use it on itself. Destroying magic items, how mean is that!? Sayeth The Endless. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 29, 2004)

Meh!  Use it to destroy that gnoll chieftan's battleaxe!  You know, the one that _isn't_ magical but can still kill you?


----------



## Thanee (Jul 29, 2004)

Poor gnoll chieftain can't even afford a magic battleaxe. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Xael (Jul 29, 2004)

I just noticed that whips are melee weapons in 3.5 and one can now add strength bonus to damage with them without any silly mighty whips. It would make sense that Nagaikas would be changed the same way, right?

I'll post soonish in the IC thread.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 29, 2004)

That's cool.


----------



## rangerjohn (Jul 29, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> I just noticed that whips are melee weapons in 3.5 and one can now add strength bonus to damage with them without any silly mighty whips. It would make sense that Nagaikas would be changed the same way, right?
> 
> I'll post soonish in the IC thread.




That's been driiving me bats since you brought it up.  What is a Nagaika?


----------



## Xael (Jul 29, 2004)

rangerjohn said:
			
		

> That's been driiving me bats since you brought it up. What is a Nagaika?



Basically it's just a badass whip with sharp things attached to it.


----------



## rangerjohn (Jul 29, 2004)

Ok, I thought that was a scourge.  But then again a katana is a masterwork bastard sword.  Shrug.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 29, 2004)

The nagaika is in Masters of the Wild.  It is indeed a whip with glass in it.  A scourge is the classical cat 'o nine tails, a short length of wood with several thin strips of leather attached (usually nine), with metal barbs tied into the strips in several places.  It's meant more to cause pain than to kill.


----------



## rangerjohn (Jul 30, 2004)

EV, I notice several other things on your sheet.  One, a +3 breastplate gives a +8 armor bonus, not +9.  Two, with Dartbane you are 14/9  [bab +8 +2 str+3enchantment, and +1 weapon focus.}  Three Dartbane should be listed as a +3 defender, keen, spellsword(magic missle) longsword.  Four, keen and improved critical do not stack in 3.5.  Five, damage for dartbane, should be 1-8 +2 str +3 enchantment, and +2 specialization.  For 1-8+7.

Now, one and two can be corrected, by saying you always use one of the  three pluses on defense.  However, if you do this damage drops to 1-8 +6.

Hope this helps.  

Also, Ishkabar's attack should be 9/4 with the +1 heavy flail [+6 bab, +2 str +1 enchantment], dex modifiers do not apply to melee attacks.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 30, 2004)

*Cough*  If no one objects, I'm overruling that _keen_ and Improved Critical do not stack.  They do stack.    And some of your calculations might have been thrown off by EV's PrC, rangerjohn.  But I do thank you for going over the math.


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 30, 2004)

Fixed.


----------



## Thanee (Jul 30, 2004)

No problems with _keen_ and Improved Critical. If they are used just like they are, there really isn't anything wrong with letting them stack.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 30, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> The Song Ghost and the spirit communicate telepathically, though if the Song Ghost allows, the bonded spirit can speak through him, in his own voice.




Great... I can hold literally conversations with (and insult) myself out loud. And the up side is, unlike most people, I really won't know what I'm going to be saying next! 



> Your ghost mostly just wanted to explore, and find wealth and riches for his lord.  It was the lure of the Great Unknown that lead to his first death.




And possibly mine as well...  But hey, what's adventuring without a death or two, right? (Or three... or four...  ) 



> And for the Shatterspike - ARGH!  I really hate the fact that I got lazy once and didn't write junk down.  Ok, call Shatterspike around 24,000gp or so.




Sorry for the headache, Isida. 

No problems on the stacking of _keen_ and Improved Critical here.

Everybody got what they wanted out of the party pot yet?


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Jul 30, 2004)

I think we should keep chitter the rust monster for fun .


----------



## Thanee (Jul 30, 2004)

Allyra just would need something to trade for a vest of resistance. 

 Bye
 Thanee


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 30, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> I think we should keep chitter the rust monster for fun .




Well, I've notice that your character's paladin cohort and my character are the only people with any ranks in Handle Animal. Though, of course, your paladin is the one wearing the bronzewood armor....


----------



## Thanee (Jul 30, 2004)

Can you feed a rust monster with iron from a Major Creation spell? 

 Wall of Iron would work, but is kinda overkill (and has a costly component, so no unlimited supply of iron, tho it's fairly close, as I guess one wall will go a long way ).

 Bye
 Thanee


----------



## Xael (Jul 30, 2004)

Why am I suddenly seeing us offering valuable metallic goods to natives as gifts, and then our pet Rust Monster getting hungry all of a sudden?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Jul 30, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Can you feed a rust monster with iron from a Major Creation spell?




I don't think so. The PHB says that any object made with a Conjuration (Creation) spell with a non-instantaneous duration vanishes without a trace at the end of spell's duration. I think we'd wind up with a very unhappy rust monster a little bit....

On the other hand, Wall of Iron is a Conjuration (Creation) spell with an Instantaneous duration which means it will stick around forever. So we could feed the rust monster with that.... for a couple days even....


----------



## Thanee (Jul 30, 2004)

Hmm...



> Create Food and Water
> Conjuration (Creation)
> Level: Clr 3
> Components: V, S
> ...




However, that is kinda instanteneous, I guess... 

Makes you wonder whether that spell can be dispelled or not... 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Emperor Valerian (Jul 30, 2004)

Hmm... who says we go fill a wagon with 25 gp worth of nails and scrap iron, and feed it to chitter along the way?  

Wait... how 'well trained' is Chitter, Isida?


----------



## rangerjohn (Jul 30, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *Cough*  If no one objects, I'm overruling that _keen_ and Improved Critical do not stack.  They do stack.    And some of your calculations might have been thrown off by EV's PrC, rangerjohn.  But I do thank you for going over the math.




Oh, I quite agree.  I would make the same ruling, on Improved Critical/Keen, if I was running a game.  But I was pointing out the default rules.  As for the PrC, I thought I was taking it into account.  After all that's where the specialization and +3 defender come from.  Maybe I missed something, I'm the first to admit, I'm not perfect.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 30, 2004)

Chitter is pretty well trained, though if he doesn't get fed regularly he will go for whatever's closest.  If he's on a good schedule however, he will behave himself.  

However, just like you don't walk your dog dressed in a suit of t-bone steaks, you probably don't want to walk your rust monster in full plate, if you know what I'm saying.


----------



## Xael (Jul 30, 2004)

I'm going on a sudden trip tomorrow. I'll be away from computer until tuesday. Don't take over the world while I'm away, okay?


----------



## Thanee (Jul 30, 2004)

Is a couple continents ok? *blink*

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Aug 1, 2004)

300 miles. Should be about 3 weeks travel then going by a speed of 20', which is probably reasonable, given the wagons and forest terrain.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Aug 2, 2004)

*Persistent Spells*

To give you a little demonstration () what Allyra is capable of, I have added a list of spells to the RG sheet, which will be running 24/7 (that is, unless something happens, which requires to use the spell slots otherwise).

Allyra will usually cast these spells in the evening, roughly 8~10 hours before preparing her spells for the next day.

Some of the _extended_ spells (namely _extended_ Mage Armor on Kira, _extended_ False Life on Kira, and _extended_ Overland Flight) are prepared directly with the metamagic applied, using the slots which have been left free (that are also used for a few other spells, like the Shield on Kira, See Invisibility on Kira, Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer and Energy Buffer). The extra slot from Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer from the day before is used as well, as is the Mordenkainen's Lucubration (to cast Energy Buffer twice). The remaining ten metamagic effects are applied using the incantatrix ability with the same name (using take 10 on the Spellcraft checks).

Metamagic Effect actually seems to be quite nifty with Persistent Spell. At some point I wondered, what good that feat would be for Allyra, since the +6 levels are pretty huge, if you only know 6th level spells (and the Endless ability, which allows to use it a bit easier, is still a few levels away ), but then I realized, that it works perfectly well in combination with Metamagic Effect, which she had, anyways. So, there you are. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 2, 2004)

Ok guys, I need you to do me a favor and list exactly what your followers are.  I'm not asking for full stats, I just need to know if you have 30 1st level sorcerers or 30 2nd level fighters or whatever.  If you have rangers, please note their favored enemy or enemies.  And if you have experts, please list when their expertise is (building, brewing, administration, cobbling...)


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## rangerjohn (Aug 2, 2004)

Thanee, my only question is, why the double casting?  You can share spells with Kira, as your familiar.


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## Emperor Valerian (Aug 2, 2004)

Hmm... I'd put it right now at:

10 1st level fighters - people Drakkon has recruited from among locals seeking their first adventure and skilled with the blade.  Many of this type have leanings towards Kord.

1 2nd level fighter - a local armorsmith and ex-mercenary captain Drakkon recruited to be a sergeant for the other ten.

5 1st level barbarians - some ruffians Drakkon met close to the border here.  After some persuasion, they took a liking to Kord's teaching, and have signed on.

Ishkabar is probably the only one that would be considered an 'expert,' and even he can lay down the stylus and break skulls when the need arises.  Drakkon isn't too big on designing buildings... more on having the raw muscle to build them.  All 16 of this probably could be put to use throwing up timbers if someone else was to direct them on how.


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## Thanee (Aug 2, 2004)

rangerjohn said:
			
		

> Thanee, my only question is, why the double casting?  You can share spells with Kira, as your familiar.




Not quite, actually.

1) The shared spells end as soon as master and familiar are seperated by more than 5 feet.
2) Personal spells cannot be shared (so only the Mage Armor would work).

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Aug 2, 2004)

@Nac: Just noticed you have "create food and water" as a prepared spell, but that spell isn't available in this campaign. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 2, 2004)

Notes on Phader's Followers

*1st level* (50)
10 wilderness warriors (barbarians), concentrating on Climb, Craft (leatherworking or woodworking), Survival, and Swim. Mobile, athletic types who can handle various types of terrain and repair gear.
10 ex-mercenaries or adventurers (fighters), concentrating on Handle Animal and Ride. Trained warriors who can also take care of the horses and livestock.
10 scouts and explorers (rangers), concentrating on Hide, Knowledge (geography or nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival. They tend towards the bow over the sword. Favored enemy: giant.
20 craftsman, and artisans (experts), concentrating on Craft or Profession (3-4 of either in related fields, such as blacksmithing, armorsmithing and weaponsmithing or tanning and leatherworking), with a sprinkling of a wide variety of other skills including Appraise, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (various), Perform, Survival. Roughly, 4 are metalworkers (armorsmith, blacksmith, locksmith, weaponsmith), 4 are stoneworkers (stonemason, miner), 4 are woodworkers (cooper, carpenter, wheelwright), 4 work with cloth and leather (cobbler, weaver, leatherworker, furrier), and the last 4 work with food (baker, brewer, cook).

*2nd level* (5)
1 veteran barbarian in charge of the other barbarians.
1 veteran fighter in charge of the other fighters.
1 veteran ranger in charge of the other rangers.
2 trained experts in with ranks in Craft (calligraphy or cartography) and Profession (clerk or steward) to help map, keep records, and organize the group.

*3rd level or higher* (6)
3 3rd-level clerics (Milil) with the Knowledge and Nobility domains. 
2 4th-level rogues.
1 5th-level wizard with the Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand item creation feats.

All probably have fondness for music and song of some sort. Phaeder recruited with a tendency towards warrior types, partly because of Anshul's influence (that's where that group of barbarians came from ), and partly because he knew they'd be heading into dangerous territory. He also looked for versatility-- men and women who could defend themselves but could also do odd jobs like driving wagons, mending, cooking, or bandaging a wound.

I'm leaving the actual builders and architects to Nac Mac Feegle's people since he said that was what he was recruiting. We'll need more workers than builders anyway.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Aug 3, 2004)

A quick question:  Does the land we have and the set-up we hope to use count as the "has a home base" bonus to leadership?

Assuming it doesn't (I'll edit this post if it does) here's the breakdown of my followers.

35 experts:

Assuming I'm giving them standard stats arrays, they'll have 14 int, so 9 skill points a level.  They'll have the following skills maxed out:  Craft (Stoneworking), Craft (Leatherworking), Craft (Carpentry), Craft (Metalsmithing), Knowledge (Architecture), Knowledge (Religion), Diplomacy, Treat Injury, Wilderness Lore

Then all higher level will be clerics of Pelor (Domains: Sun, Healing).


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## Thanee (Aug 3, 2004)

I suppose it does not yet count, but will do so, once we actually have established a base there. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Xael (Aug 3, 2004)

Rezomael has 8 1st level Wizard followers.


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## Thanee (Aug 3, 2004)

Follower stats: Standard array is 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, BTW. The other one is the elite array used for PCs and advanced NPCs normally.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 3, 2004)

Ah, I was wondering about that (not that I have the energy to stat these guys out). Thanks, Thanee.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 3, 2004)

Okay, this is rather cheesy, but I figure I'd ask everyone's opinion anyway. In Song and Silence, there's a 2nd-level bard spell called _fortissimo_. It can be cast on either a creature or object and increases the DC of sonic or language-based attacks by +2 and the sonic damage by +1d6 points (if the creature or object has an attack that deals damage).

Now, it's pretty obvious that if Phaeder casts this on himself, then casts _shout_, the save DC for the spell would go up by +2 and he would deal 6d6 points of sonic damage instead of 5d6.

However, if he casts this on his _+1 screaming bow_ instead (which deals sonic damage), would it do +2d6 points of sonic damage instead of +1d6 with every arrow he shoots?


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## rangerjohn (Aug 3, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Okay, this is rather cheesy, but I figure I'd ask everyone's opinion anyway. In Song and Silence, there's a 2nd-level bard spell called _fortissimo_. It can be cast on either a creature or object and increases the DC of sonic or language-based attacks by +2 and the sonic damage by +1d6 points (if the creature or object has an attack that deals damage).
> 
> Now, it's pretty obvious that if Phaeder casts this on himself, then casts _shout_, the save DC for the spell would go up by +2 and he would deal 6d6 points of sonic damage instead of 5d6.
> 
> However, if he casts this on his _+1 screaming bow_ instead (which deals sonic damage), would it do +2d6 points of sonic damage instead of +1d6 with every arrow he shoots?




I would say yes for the duration of the spell.  Now the duration might have to be adjusted to be in balance with the other buffs.  I say might, because I don't own S&S.  So I do not know the 3.0 duration.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Aug 3, 2004)

Thanks for that Thanee.

I've modified followers slightly, here's the revised version:

Useful Stats: Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 11.  They'll have the following skills maxed out: Craft (Stoneworking), Craft (Leatherworking), Craft (Carpentry), Craft (Metalsmithing), Knowledge (Architecture), Knowledge (Religion), Diplomacy, Treat Injury

2nd and 3rd level followers will be clerics of Pelor (Domains: Sun, Healing).

4th level is an expert with the extra point put into int (raising it to 14) and with the added skill points used to also speak and read/write gnoll, giant, goblin and orc.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 4, 2004)

rangerjohn said:
			
		

> I would say yes for the duration of the spell.  Now the duration might have to be adjusted to be in balance with the other buffs.  I say might, because I don't own S&S.  So I do not know the 3.0 duration.




It's 1 minute/level, which is comparable to with _bull's strength_ or _cat's grace_. Or _flame blade_, I suppose...


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## rangerjohn (Aug 4, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> It's 1 minute/level, which is comparable to with _bull's strength_ or _cat's grace_. Or _flame blade_, I suppose...




Although, its doing and average of an additional 3.5 damage vs +2 or +3 dmg two-handed.  Hmm, on second thought I guess that's about right.  Of course depending on the opponent, you still might want to use the spell, especially if they have a high ac.  Of course this may all be moot, the final decision is Isida's.


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## Serpenteye (Aug 4, 2004)

I'm sorry Isida, but I'm going to have to drop out of this game. I simply don't have the time to give it the attention it deserves. Once again, I'm sorry. And I'll see you around.


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## Thanee (Aug 4, 2004)

Aww, sorry to hear that.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 6, 2004)

I have a three-day (maybe four, not sure yet) engagement I have to attend to starting tomorrow. I will have internet access but I may not have time to post anything of length. Sorry about the inconvenience, all. :\


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## Thanee (Aug 7, 2004)

Well, we would need one alternate for Serpenteye then, I guess. I think there were a few people interested. Ghostknight? Creamsteak?

Bye
Thanee


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## Ferrix (Aug 7, 2004)

mmm alternate


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 7, 2004)

Welcome aboard Ferrix!  What were you thinking of playing?

And while I hate to do something implausible, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to insert Ferrix's character where Serpenteye's was.  Any objections to this?


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## Thanee (Aug 7, 2004)

We can just pretend he was there all the time the same we are pretending we know each other since years already. 

No, no problem at all.

Bye
Thanee


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## Ferrix (Aug 8, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Welcome aboard Ferrix!  What were you thinking of playing?
> 
> And while I hate to do something implausible, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to insert Ferrix's character where Serpenteye's was.  Any objections to this?




I was thinking of playing an interesting combination to get to Grim and symbiotic champion (from AEG Wilds), or a ranger/finder of the lost (AEG-Wilds)/grim.  Both'd probably end up being half-orcs.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 8, 2004)

Cool beans.  Does any of the treasure than Serpenteye took from the pot interest you?


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## Ferrix (Aug 8, 2004)

what were the items from the pot that were grabbed? can't tell really just by looking.


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## Thanee (Aug 8, 2004)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1678795&postcount=206

Did Serpenteye even want anything? 
Ah, yes, the buckler.

Bye
Thanee


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## Ferrix (Aug 9, 2004)

The beetle buckler really wouldn't work for either character concept I had, the symbiot would be unarmored (monk level) and the buckler wouldn't work with that and the other one uses a spiked shield as an offhand weapon and bucklers can't be used for shieldbashing, so it doesn't work out so well.


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## Ferrix (Aug 9, 2004)

Some things about the Finder of the Lost

The pre-reqs for it are:

Search 8
Gather Information 4
Intuit Direction 4
Wilderness Lore 8

Since intuit direction is rolled into survival (wilderness lore) now getting rid of that pre-req was fine.

However, one of the abilities for the Finder of the Lost, Memory of the Past is based on the Scry skill, however 3.5 doesn't have the scry skill anymore, would rolling that into Gather Information make sense for the purpose of this ability?  Or would a level+int check be more appropriate?


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## Ferrix (Aug 9, 2004)

actually my cohort could use that buckler


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## Ferrix (Aug 9, 2004)

Trekt Loreseeker, Dwarven Ranger 5/Finder of the Lost 5/Grim 2

up and in partial order, should be finished in a day or so, have to move back up to montreal tomorrow


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 9, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Some things about the Finder of the Lost
> 
> The pre-reqs for it are:
> 
> ...



  I would think level plus Wis check would work fine.  And I'm cool with rolling the Intuit direction into the Survival prereq.


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## Ferrix (Aug 12, 2004)

Trekt is up and ready to roll (i think, someone check it over to make sure i didn't screw something up or miss something), Grik his faithful goblin cohort alongside him and his crew of rangers and a druid


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## Thanee (Aug 12, 2004)

Looks good on first glance.  Fort save is wrong, tho.

Bye
Thanee


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## Ferrix (Aug 12, 2004)

fixed, thanks for the note.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 12, 2004)

Haven't looked Trekt over especially closely but Isida's not allowing any _rings of sustenance_ or the like in the campaign, so you'll have to pick something else under his equipment. :\

Welcome to the party, by the way.


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## Ferrix (Aug 12, 2004)

Sephiroth no Miko said:
			
		

> Haven't looked Trekt over especially closely but Isida's not allowing any _rings of sustenance_ or the like in the campaign, so you'll have to pick something else under his equipment. :\
> 
> Welcome to the party, by the way.




all right, no problem there... i thought i read that at one point but didn't see it in the character creation guidelines... only restriction were the light generating items


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 12, 2004)

Hey Isida,

What's your ruling on the _fortissimo_ spell (Song and Silence) with a _screaming_ weapon as per this post?

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1688812&postcount=265


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 12, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> all right, no problem there... i thought i read that at one point but didn't see it in the character creation guidelines... only restriction were the light generating items




It's in the first post of this thread, in the 3rd full paragraph... something about banning spells (and magic items) that create food and water.


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## Emperor Valerian (Aug 16, 2004)

I am afraid I will be disappearing for the next couple days.  Tomorrow I am moving to my new apartment, and I won't have internet access for a few days.  I should be back by Friday or this weekend at the latest


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 16, 2004)

> Okay, this is rather cheesy, but I figure I'd ask everyone's opinion anyway. In Song and Silence, there's a 2nd-level bard spell called fortissimo. It can be cast on either a creature or object and increases the DC of sonic or language-based attacks by +2 and the sonic damage by +1d6 points (if the creature or object has an attack that deals damage).
> 
> Now, it's pretty obvious that if Phaeder casts this on himself, then casts shout, the save DC for the spell would go up by +2 and he would deal 6d6 points of sonic damage instead of 5d6.
> 
> However, if he casts this on his +1 screaming bow instead (which deals sonic damage), would it do +2d6 points of sonic damage instead of +1d6 with every arrow he shoots?



  Hmm...  I smell cheddar.  It seems awfully cheap to have a spell that can bypass that kind of cash you need to give a weapon that much damage.  So... I say no.


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## rangerjohn (Aug 16, 2004)

Isidia, will you ban keen and greater magic weapon, for similar reasons?


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## Thanee (Aug 20, 2004)

*blink*

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 20, 2004)

Umm... nope.

Back on Tuesday for real people.  GenCon is pretty fun so far.


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## Thanee (Aug 20, 2004)

Ah, then have fun there. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Ferrix (Aug 20, 2004)

Once Isida gets back I'll jump in around then, still need to do some catching up on the IC thread.


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## Ferrix (Aug 24, 2004)

Isida do you want me to jump in?  I only snagged one item from the party pool of gear (the beetle buckler that the person i'm replacing had) and it went to my cohort, is there more available or what not?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 24, 2004)

The loot given was the look given, unless you want one of the unclaimed items.  _Shatterspike_ perhaps?  Anyways, leap in here at any time.


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## Ferrix (Aug 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> The loot given was the look given, unless you want one of the unclaimed items.  _Shatterspike_ perhaps?  Anyways, leap in here at any time.




I'll snag it, I had thought it was the Shatterspike from S&F which isn't all that great, but when I reread your description of it, it's pretty spiffy.

The stuff that was listed:

+3 beetle buckler (14,600 gp) - Went to my cohort
Shatterspike (~ 24,000 gp) - Nabbed for myself
Chitter the Rust Monster (~ 5,000 gp) -  I've got a forest gnome druid follower who could dig this guy.


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## Xael (Aug 25, 2004)

I've just moved away from home and I don't have computer yet, so I might not be able to post much. I should get a computer within a week or two, but I'm using school's computers for now.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 25, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> The stuff that was listed:
> 
> +3 beetle buckler (14,600 gp) - Went to my cohort
> Shatterspike (~ 24,000 gp) - Nabbed for myself
> Chitter the Rust Monster (~ 5,000 gp) -  I've got a forest gnome druid follower who could dig this guy.




Hey Thanee, could you update your Loot Distribution post for the above? ( link )


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## Thanee (Aug 25, 2004)

Sure thing.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Aug 25, 2004)

Isida? You might want to update the first post in the IC with Ferrix' character.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 26, 2004)

Thanks, Thanee. 

By the way, having adventured with each other for years, I think we would all eventually realize that none of us speaks Gnoll (at least without non-magical help).


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## Thanee (Aug 26, 2004)

Yep, I had looked that up, too, but you never know, someone might have hidden talents. 

 Well, in 15 minutes Allyra could have prepared a Tongues spell, or she could now Comprehend Languages, but that doesn't help at all with communications.

 Can only hope, that one of them speaks Common, or Giant or something, I guess. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Aug 27, 2004)

Hey EV, I just noticed... shouldn't Drakkon's Sense Motive be +6 instead of +5?


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 9, 2004)

Congrats on your new job, Isida!


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## Thanee (Sep 26, 2004)

What's the distance to the woman?

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 26, 2004)

You're 20 feet from her.


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## Thanee (Sep 26, 2004)

20? That's close. 

So, she came from the tree towards us then?

I had envisioned, that she is still near the tree, but we should be about 50 feet from the tree at least (that's where Allyra was going to cast her spell, which, as I understand, has not happened yet, because of the woman suddenly showing up ).

Anyways... close enough for Arcane Sight, which is what I wanted to know in the first place.

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 27, 2004)

I assumed you were coming towards the tree, casting Arcane Sight as you went.  Then she popped out from behind the tree.  Hence the closeness.  But you can be father away if you want.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 27, 2004)

Ehhh, just having some fun with Phaeder and Anshul in that last post. Hope nobody minds.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 27, 2004)

Hee hee!  That's freaking hilarious Sephiroth!


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## Thanee (Sep 27, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I assumed you were coming towards the tree, casting Arcane Sight as you went.




Analyze Dweomer... 



> Then she popped out from behind the tree.  Hence the closeness.  But you can be father away if you want.




Well, Allyra wanted to be in (close) range for the Analyze Dweomer Spell, but the exact distance doesn't really matter much.

She hasn't cast it yet (since the woman appeared before she had a chance), her Arcane Sight was already running.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Sep 27, 2004)

And yeah, Sephiroth has a tendency to write some really funny posts, much like our dear Emperor does, heh! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Sep 27, 2004)

Glad to see I'm amusing people other than myself!


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## Thanee (Sep 29, 2004)

*Vacation*

I'll be on vacation for about two weeks. Don't wait on me, Allyra will just stay in the back and tag along, or whatever else seems reasonable for so long. If her divinations would be needed, I guess Isida can do something about that. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 15, 2004)

I will gone all Friday (10/15) to Sunday (10/17) to a wedding and will not have internet access. The earliest I will be able to post again will be Monday. Sorry for the inconvenience all.


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Oct 24, 2004)

Ugh, sorry about the lack of activity for the last few days but a wee nasty bug is making my life miserable. Will try to post when I feel a bit better....


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Oct 24, 2004)

Hey, it's ok, post when you're not feeling urky.    Get well soon!


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## Thanee (Nov 21, 2004)

Made on change to Allyra's Spellbook, since Complete Arcane changed a spell from 5th to 8th level (replaced _Ghostform_ with the somewhat similar _Greater Blink_, which is 5th).

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 21, 2004)

Would that really matter since I'm not sure Isida has Complete Arcane anyway? You could just go with the original text.


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## Thanee (Nov 21, 2004)

Well, if they classified the spell as 8th level instead of 5th level in 3.5, I guess it's just fair to go with that.

Besides, _Greater Blink_ is the same as _Improved Blink_ (listed in PGtF among others).

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Nov 21, 2004)

What was _ghostform_ originally in anyway? Tome and Blood?

I guess that would make sense...


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## Thanee (Nov 21, 2004)

Would and does. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 3, 2004)

Just a note.... I wilbe going to GenCon SoCal this weekend (yay!  My first con!) so I will not be available this weekend. I will be back on Monday.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Dec 19, 2004)

Since Nac Mac Feegle has not posted in this game since the first of October (man have I been tardy in getting the alternates in...), I'm calling for the alternates.  If I have no response within two days, I shall recruit a new person.

I need one person to replace Shal, and possibly another, because I know Emperor Valerian will have slow posting due to having to write some lengthy papers.  These new people will obviously not be from this adventuring group, and can be natives or independent adveturers to the area.  They also do not have the restriction on wealth spent, because they aren't going to be choosing things out of a pot.


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## Thanee (Dec 19, 2004)

Just figured how cool Lantern Archons are to create Everburning Torches... 

Not here, tho, as the spell isn't available, of course... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Lady Shatterstone (Dec 19, 2004)

Hey Isida~   

     You called?  Sure, I would like in if you have a spot!    However, could you refresh my memory on this one?    You know setting and types of characters you were looking for and so on.   Thanks a bunch! 

~ Lady Shatterstone


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Dec 19, 2004)

Actually, I'm looking for just about anything.  This game is a big ol' free for all.  I basically need you to pick one of my PrCs that you like (because everyone in this game has one), and then make your character!


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## Creamsteak (Dec 19, 2004)

Hi all. What did you need? I'm not entirely sure from reading the last two pages of this thread.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Dec 19, 2004)

Well, we have one character, Shal, run by Nac Mac Feegle, that hasn't been seen in the thread for over two months.  So I need a new character to replace him.  Also, Drakkon, played by Emperor Valerian, has a very slow posing rate due to EV's work, so I thought I might bring in someone else as well.


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## Thanee (Dec 19, 2004)

Not sure, what we might need, maybe some divine caster (tho, I guess it's best to look through Isida's PrC and see what you like), but here is what we have... 

Rezomael
Male Human Wizard 5th/Lightning Rod 7th

Phaeder
Male Human Bard 8th/Song Ghost 4th

Allyra
Female Human Wizard 5th/Incantatrix 5th/The Endless 2nd

Trekt
Male Dwarf Ranger 5th/Finder of the Lost 5th/Grim 2nd

_And EV's character..._

Drakkon
Male Human Barbarian 3rd/Cleric 6th/Bondblade 3rd

...plus a few cohorts and a whole bunch of followers... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Dec 20, 2004)

I spoke to Lady Shatterstone, and she's going to be making a void genasi wizard/Bound Woman.  Let's just say it's going to be an interesting experience meeting her for the first time...

And fear not for your healing... I think we have a few spare clerics around in the party...


----------



## Thanee (Dec 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> And fear not for your healing...




No worries, just named divine caster, since those are not very well represented. 

On second glance... rogue is also rather underrepresented right now, but a classic rogue wouldn't be overly useful in the wilderness, I suppose. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 21, 2004)

Just out of curiousity.... ehrm, would Shal and Drakkon be leaving us then? Or would they stay? Or are they going to have an... uhm, "accident"?


----------



## Sephiroth no Miko (Dec 21, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I spoke to Lady Shatterstone, and she's going to be making a void genasi wizard/Bound Woman.  Let's just say it's going to be an interesting experience meeting her for the first time...



Well, that's certainly within the party's spellcasting-heavy theme... 



			
				From the Bound Woman PrC said:
			
		

> Heart of Ice (Ex): The Bound Woman gains unparalleled control over her emotions. She becomes immune to all spells, abilities, or effects that require the manipulation of emotions, such as a spell causing someone to rage, or a dragon’s frightful presence.



Not that we have to worry about this yet (since I think you have to be at least 14th level have this ability) but I imagine this means she's also immune to the benefits of bard song (like inspire courage)? Those are definitely mind-influencing effects, and very arguably, emotion-inducing. 

Well, at least Bound Women tend to be emotionless. That means they won't get irate every time Phaeder opens his mouth... at least, in theory anyway.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Dec 21, 2004)

I would say yes, she would be immune to bardic music.  A drawback for that kind of ability, but hey, there you go.  Probably it won't make as much of a difference for a spellcaster.  

Drakkon will be staying, because I know EV can post, if slowly.  Shal may have an accident here in the near future however.


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## Lady Shatterstone (Jan 18, 2005)

Sorry for the delay.... between the holidays and things being crazy at work, it took a little longer then I had wanted to create my character, but she is done and she is posted!  Yea me!!  

~ Lady Sahtterstone


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jan 18, 2005)

Yay! Welcome to the group, Lady Shatterstone!


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## Thanee (Jan 18, 2005)

Nice. 


I think you did some errors, tho. :\ Hope you don't mind...

Most importantly... Void Genasi are LA +1 and Bound Woman needs 12 ranks in Concentration, which requires 9 levels before you can get the PrC.

So, Dubheasa could be Void Genasi Wizard 9/Bound Woman 2, for example.

And I think you should have seperate spellbooks and prepared spells, one for Wizard spells and one for Bound Woman spells. Looks like they have seperate spell lists.

Also, _Hold Monster_ is 5th level, not 6th. 

One last thing... A _headband of intellect_ (probably +4) would be a good idea.

Bye
Thanee


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## Lady Shatterstone (Jan 19, 2005)

Thank you for the welcome and for catching my errors.  I will tweek things as soon as I can.


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## Lady Shatterstone (Jan 25, 2005)

Reposted my character.  She now has a familiar and her spellbooks have been seperated.  As for her ranks in wizard and bound woman, I spoke with Isida, they are corrcet.    So, I think everything is good to go now.  

~ Lady S.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jan 25, 2005)

Guys, everyone will be leveling up after this battle, so when you meet Lady Shatterstone's character, you will all be even.    You can ponder on your next level as we wind up this combat.


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## Thanee (Jan 25, 2005)

Lady Shatterstone said:
			
		

> So, I think everything is good to go now.




Great! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Ferrix (Jan 25, 2005)

*ponders*


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Jan 26, 2005)

Yay!


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## Sephiroth no Miko (Feb 11, 2005)

I deeply apologize for my abrupt disappearance this last week but was pulled away by an unexpected family crisis. The bad news is, it's still not yet resolved so I'm not going to have time to post updates for the games I'm in.  The good news is, I will hopefully be back in action sometime mid to late next week.  Again, I apologize for making people wait and I hope to be back soon.

DM, please just NPC my character for the time-being. Thanks!


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## Thanee (Apr 18, 2005)

Sephiroth probably won't be around for a while, as it seems (hope he will come back sooner or later, tho, also to continue his own game), but everyone else (Emperor Valerian, Xael and Ferrix) seems to be active still (at least somewhere on the forum ), so it shouldn't be too difficult to get back to a more steady posting schedule, if you guys are still up for it. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Keia (Apr 18, 2005)

Tossing my hat in as a alternate, if allowed! 

Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Apr 18, 2005)

That would work quite well Keia.  Did you want to play Phaeder, or did you have another concept in mind?


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## Thanee (Apr 18, 2005)

Maybe we should drop the other three a message in other threads, if they don't really check in here?

Bye
Thanee


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Apr 18, 2005)

That would be a good idea.  I'll see what I can do.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 18, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> That would be a good idea.  I'll see what I can do.




Do I need to knock head together as only I can in my “oh so” subtle ways?   (Quotation marks for Thanee!  )


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Apr 18, 2005)

If you wouldn't mind letting the other know we're back in business, I would be much obliged.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 18, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> If you wouldn't mind letting the other know we're back in business, I would be much obliged.




These three: Emperor Valerian, Xael and Ferrix correct?

Ferrix dropped word about studying for school...  (I’ll shoot him an FYI anyhow but consider that an FYI for ya’ll also.)


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## Lady Shatterstone (Apr 18, 2005)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Do I need to knock head together as only I can in my “oh so” subtle ways?   (Quotation marks for Thanee!  )




"subtle"  is that what you call it???


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Apr 18, 2005)

And EV I know is also very busy with school (I know him IRL).  I may be having someone take over his character if I can't contact him.  But if you could contact Xael that would be spiffy.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 18, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> And EV I know is also very busy with school (I know him IRL).  I may be having someone take over his character if I can't contact him.  But if you could contact Xael that would be spiffy.




Okay, email sent to Xael.  Do you want one sent to Ferrix or should we give him a day or two?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Apr 18, 2005)

I know Ferrix's issue, so I'm not worried about him.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 18, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I know Ferrix's issue, so I'm not worried about him.




Cool, than spiffiness has been fulfilled.


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## Xael (Apr 19, 2005)

I'm here. Having about a week of school left packed with exams and stuff, but I'm here.


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## Thanee (Apr 19, 2005)

Maybe we should just add one new character (or take an old one over, tho, I generall don't like that as a player, dunno how Keia sees that ), and let the currently un-controlled PCs be busy with our vast army of followers, while the rest goes exploring and so on. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Keia (Apr 19, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> That would work quite well Keia.  Did you want to play Phaeder, or did you have another concept in mind?




I looked over Phaeder and I'm not certain I could do justice with him (them).  I'm looking over the concepts and classes.  

Any requests?  I'm currently partial to Psionics and I'm thinking about one of the psionic races in the xph but I'm flexible.

Keia


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## Thanee (Apr 19, 2005)

Considering, that the currently active characters (from the last couple posts) are *all* Wizards, maybe Psion (quite similar to an arcane spellcaster) wouldn't be the best idea , tho, a Psychic Warrior, for example, would probably fit well.

Just my own opinion, of course. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Keia (Apr 20, 2005)

Looking through the ideas for a PrC, the psychic warrior only seems to work with the Bondblade and the Bloodmage (of which the bond blade is taken).  

I'm still leaning on an Elan Psion (kinetic or nomad), but I'm strugling with the proper prestige class.  

As I'm trading a bard for a psion, I'm not too worried about having too many casters - though you're right, another front-liner might be necessary.  With psion I can still run a archer (especially as a nomad), 

_Still working,_
Keia


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## Thanee (Apr 21, 2005)

The PrC don't really work for psionic classes (or have any been added?). Isida had offered earlier to make a PrC, if none fits (quite likely for a psionic character, really, as there are none, which really fit).

Bye
Thanee


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## Keia (May 16, 2005)

Isida,

Any thoughts on a psionic prestige class, or an arcane one to covert to psionics?  Otherwise, I'll try and come up with another idea. 

Keia
_sorry for the delay in posting, I think I was waiting for a response and realized I didn't ask a question - my bad!!_


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 16, 2005)

Did you have an idea in mind?  I'm flexible, and if you had your heart set on a specific theme, then I could get working on that.


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## Keia (May 17, 2005)

Well, I was thinking of trying one of the psionic races in the xph, and I like the kinetic (Jibril seems pretty tough), and the nomad.  The prestige class side of things was wearing me down.  

I think the Uncarnate is interesting, but maybe a little over the top.  Several of Cordell's prestige classes are interesting (though to be honest, it's been a couple of weeks since I looked at them).

Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 17, 2005)

If you have an interest in say... one of the PrCs from Hyperconsciousness, that would be eight shades of cool on a stick, and easy for both of us.


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## Keia (May 17, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> If you have an interest in say... one of the PrCs from Hyperconsciousness, that would be eight shades of cool on a stick, and easy for both of us.




I was checking (at least at work) I have Mindscapes but not hyperconsciousness.  I might have a hard copy of it at home.  I'll check tonight.

Keia


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## Ferrix (Jun 1, 2005)

Coming Back Soon


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## Keia (Jun 1, 2005)

No such luck on hyperconsciousness . . . I have Mindscapes and Xph  

Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 1, 2005)

Well, the PrCs in Mindscapes are the same as in Hyperconsciousness, just updated to 3.5.  If you see one in Mindscapes you like, I'll tell you if there are any changes from editions.


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## Keia (Jun 1, 2005)

How about the Spirituel?  I like the concept of that one.  I really didn't like that every single one of them didn't have a caster level at 1st level of the prestige class.  Seemed annoying for a Pbp game (not as much for a r/l game though).

Let me know.
Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 6, 2005)

Hey all, I'm looking for one more good man/woman for this game.  Any takers?


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## Keia (Jun 6, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Hey all, I'm looking for one more good man/woman for this game.  Any takers?



Is this after me?   

Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 6, 2005)

Yes yes, after Keia.  Keia makes 5, and I want six.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 6, 2005)

Anybody, anybody, Bueller?


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## Keia (Jun 6, 2005)

Oh! OH!  Me!! Me!!  Wait, you have me . . . 

I'll do some digging to find someone as well.

Keia


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## Dark Nemesis (Jun 6, 2005)

I'd like to play, if you'll have me!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 6, 2005)

w00t!  Glad to have you DN.    What are you thinking of?


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## Keia (Jun 7, 2005)

Isida,

Do You want me to start putting up my character in the R/G?  I can e-mail my progress to you as well if you prefer.

Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 7, 2005)

Keia, you can go ahead and start in the RG.


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## Keia (Jun 7, 2005)

Okey doe! Thanks!!

Keia


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## Keia (Jun 7, 2005)

p.s. E-mail sent for your review and critique!!

Nite!
Keia


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## Dark Nemesis (Jun 7, 2005)

It's difficult to decide, there are so many neat prestige classes!  I was originally thinking about running a Dying Daughter, but I dunno if it would work in a campaign like this.  Perhaps a Fighter/Rogue/Bondblade, or a Fighter/Cleric/Bondblade?

-DN


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 7, 2005)

Probably not a Dying Daughter, as I think everyone here is either neutral or a stripe of good.  And Dying Daughters tend to be eeeeeeeeeeeevil.

So, Bondblade would work.  Or another if you desire.  Up to you.  Or if there's a concept that you like but don't see, lemme know and I may be able to accomodate.


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## Keia (Jun 7, 2005)

Maybe DN and I can wrap our stories together somehow!  I have no problem with that.

E-mail sent your way, Isida.

Keia


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## Keia (Jun 7, 2005)

Isida,

Just double checking on starting xps and level.  And GPs

Also, just checking, but naturally psionic, does that give a number of points per psionic class level or just a starting number.  Being naturally psionic seems like it should be a per level thing, but it doesn't read that way.

Thanks!!

Keia


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## Keia (Jun 8, 2005)

Mostly done with the character in the rogue's gallery.  I wanted to go with a dagger motif but it looked like my options were limited.  Plus, I'm always confused about whether ranged feats apply to throw weapons (PBS, Rapid Shot, etc.).  Therefore, some feats may be switched out for better ones or just expanded powers.  Plus any changes for questions I've had so far.

Thanks!
Keia


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## Thanee (Jun 8, 2005)

Keia, Natural Psionics is the Elan ability? Then it's just a one-time bonus (+2 PP, I think, just like the pretty similar feat).

The ranged combat feats _do_ apply for daggers, tho, you might want to pick up Quick Draw in order to be able to throw multiple daggers per round, maybe, if you want to do that.

Your feat list is desperately missing Psionic Meditation. A must-have feat, similar to Natural Spell for the druid, especially since you have some feats, that use up the psionic focus.

And there are two powers, which I strongly recommend to house rule:

_Energy Missile_ should have a proper DC scaling (+1 DC/+2 PP; no power should scale in DC one-by-one) at the very least and I would also nerf the multiple targets down to a single target and make them an augmentation option with +1 or +2 PP per additional target after the first (max 5).

_Dispel Psionics_ is incredibly badly written. The most reasonable house rule is to replace the complete augmentation part with the option to augment it to a greater version for +6 PP, which simply adds +10 to the maximum dispel check. I would go even farther then that, but this seems to be the most common house rule, I believe.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Jun 8, 2005)

You should also make sure, that you can fulfill the crafting requirements for the items. 

Golden Circlet of Intellect +4 (crafted 640 xp, 8,000gp) -- need someone to provide you with the _Animal Affinity_ power, or I suppose the _Fox's Cunning_ spell.
Throwing Gloves of Dexterity +4 (crafted 640 xp, 8,000gp) -- as above.
Third Eye - Aware (crafted 400 xp, 5,000gp) -- creator must have 10 ranks in Spot.

Not sure about the Third Eye, but for the others, you could simply pay someone to provide the spell/power in question, which would normally cost 60 gp per day (one casting/manifestation needed each day) for the creation time of 16 days. 1,920 gp. No biggie. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Keia (Jun 8, 2005)

The natural psionic kills me though . . . 

_"Hi I'm a naturally psionic race . . at 1st level I have 2 more power points than you low life scum - almost 40% more than you."  _ - with a 14 stat

Several months later. . . .

_"Hi I'm a naturally psionic race . . at 10th level I have 2 more power points than you low life scum - almost 2% more than you." _  :\  - with a 14 stat

Several years later. . . .

_"Hi I'm a naturally psionic race . . at 20th level I have 2 more power points than you low life scum - almost *.05%*  more than you." _  - with a 14 stat 

Yeah, I'm thinking Quickdraw and PBS and Rapid Shot for daggers rather than up the walls, weapon focus and weapon finesse.

As for _Energy Missile_ - Well, considering its an exclusive power, gets a save and the 15ft between any two targets - I'm usually alright with it.  Though I would conceed the DC save issue.


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## Keia (Jun 8, 2005)

Or, the power/ feat could have been had, then swapped out in later levels.  But whatever cost that is appropriate is fine with me!! 

KEia


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## Thanee (Jun 8, 2005)

Keia said:
			
		

> The natural psionic kills me though . . .




LOL, yeah, I know what you mean. It's pretty much the same issue with the feat, tho.

It's just badly designed. 



> As for _Energy Missile_ - Well, considering its an exclusive power, gets a save and the 15ft between any two targets - I'm usually alright with it.




Well, it's just that this power is technically better than the 3rd level _Energy Ball_ (also exclusive) in many situations, thanks to the selective targeting, which to me is a strong indicator, that it is indeed too powerful for a 2nd level power.

At this level we are playing, it's not such a big issue anymore, but especially at the lower levels, the difference is immense IMHO.



> Though I would conceed the DC save issue.




I still wonder, how they could miss that in the errata. 



> Or, the power/ feat could have been had, then swapped out in later levels.




How would you want to swap them out? You would need _Psychic Reformation_ to do that (of course, you could have swapped that out, too ), and that would add an XP cost.

Bye
Thanee


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## Keia (Jun 12, 2005)

I think I'm just about done with Shalla in the R/G.  Just need to double check the gps and xps for the game, then talk with Isida on introductions (as soon as Dawn is finished).  

I saved gold for the training part, if needed.  Otherwise I'm certain I can spend it somewhere. 

Keia

p.s. is races of Destiny allowable?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 12, 2005)

I don't have any of the Races books, but if you wish to detail your desired content completely, I'll consider it.


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## Keia (Jun 13, 2005)

Here is the possible replacement for the level 3 power on Foresight (from Races of Destiny).  As an aside, there is a level 1 and 2 power which is perfect too!:

*Realized Potential*
Clairsentience
*Level:* Psion/wilder 3
*Display: * Visual
*Manifesting Time:* 1 standard action
*Range:* Touch
*Target: * Creature touched
*Duration:* 1 round/level
*Saving Throw:* Will negates (harmless)
*Power Resistance:* Yes (harmless)
*Power Points:* 5
The target receives a vision of his or her own future, gaining deeper insight into her own abilities, but only temporarily.  For the duration of this power, the character gains a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls and saving throws, and a +2 competence bonus on skill checks made in which the character has purchased ranks.


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## Keia (Jun 13, 2005)

That just leaves final xps, gold, and the intro to work on and I'm good to go!

Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 13, 2005)

The power is acceptable and approved for use.


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## Dark Nemesis (Jun 16, 2005)

All right!  My character has been posted in the rogue's gallry, awaiting Isida's approval!

-DN


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 16, 2005)

DN - Your character looks good.  Aurora has an Int of 16, a Wis of 8, and a Cha of 17.  

I have a 3.5 version of the Bondblade right here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2303829&postcount=15 and I'm sorry I didn't bring this to your attention earlier, but you have a couple more choices to make.  What is the special metal you forged into her at 4th level for the Brothers in Arms ability?  You also need to choose one facet of your alignment for your blade to bypass.  I rolled for telepathy, and Aurora didn't get it, but you need to choose three additional languages other than Common that she knows (she starts with your known languages first).

Also please note that Aurora is a +3 _defending, throwing, returning_ weapon.


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## Dark Nemesis (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks, Isida!  I'll make the necessary changes on my character sheet!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 18, 2005)

Where be the rest of ye?  There's a nasty hydra about to descend upon the party, and Allyra and Rezomael are out of actions.  Ferrix and Lady Shatterstone, I need actions from you.

Keia and Dark Nemesis, do you two want to be traveling together perhaps?


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## Keia (Jun 18, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Keia and Dark Nemesis, do you two want to be traveling together perhaps?



Yeah, we've set up our backgrounds to work together and travel together, if you want.

Keia


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 18, 2005)

Excellent.  I shall be bringing you two in here shortly.  Could you both e-mail or PM me please?


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## Keia (Jun 19, 2005)

E-mail sent

Keia


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## Dark Nemesis (Jun 19, 2005)

I also sent you an email, Isida!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 20, 2005)

Ok, Dark Nemesis, I need Dawn's attack bonuses and whatnot added up (both single and two-weapon attacks as well as ranged).  Other than that, I think she's ok.  

Keia - Shalla looks good.  You two will be introduced in the fashion I described in the e-mail.


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## Dark Nemesis (Jun 20, 2005)

Okay, Isida, I updated my character with all the necessary changes.  Let me know if I missed anything!


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## Keia (Jun 20, 2005)

Excited to get underway !! 

Keia


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