# Terry Pratchett



## nikolai (Dec 11, 2004)

There are some thirty(!) Discworld books out now, but Pratchett rarely gets mentioned much on these boards. What do you all think of him? And what do you think of his books? There are some definate changes in style between the earlier and later books in the series. Which are the best?


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## shilsen (Dec 11, 2004)

[Gushing]I think he's brilliant. Being in a Ph.D. program in English, I get to read a lot of good literature, but Pratchett comes in at the top of my list, edging out Shakespeare for top spot. I think he writes the human condition better than anyone I've ever read and the fact that he serves it with a very juicy helping of humor and satire just makes it so much better. The fact that he's incredibly allusive about things I'm interested in also helps. I'm a little biased in my liking for two reasons. Firstly, I very, very rarely find fictiona characters I can empathize with, and Pratchett has a knack of writing people (Death and Granny Weatherwax, for two) whom I can very easily get into the heads of. He's also about the most cynical optimist I can think of among authors, which works very well with my take on life in general.[/Gushing]

His best books? Too many to mention, but some of my personal faves are Reaper Man, Hogfather, Lords and Ladies, Interesting Times, Feet of Clay, Carpe Jugulum, and The Fifth Elephant.

P.S. I don't regard him as a fantasy author any more than I regard Chaucer's _The Canterbury Tales_ as travel literature.


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## ewalden (Dec 11, 2004)

*2nd*

I don't have a PhD in English, but I agree that Pratcett does just edge out Shakespeare as the best author ever.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 11, 2004)

Just look at the username. 

As for best books...um...all of them?  Alright, I can pick a few at least. Guards! Guards!(the first one I read), Interesting Times, Reaper Man(anything with Death, in fact...so all of them again), Mort, Eric, Men at Arms, and the Wee Free Men books(Hat Full of Sky was great!). Hmm...Mosntrous Regiment and Nightwatch are great too. Bah! I can't pick. 

Shilsen's really nailed it with Pratchett's writing on the human condition. The characters are just so great. And they've inspired not just one D&D characters. Had a Druid with a very Rincewind like attitude towards nature itself. "I like nature!...as long as it stays outside."


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## Viking Bastard (Dec 12, 2004)

He is a god among men.


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## drothgery (Dec 12, 2004)

I'd say the Guards subseries (_Guards!Guards!, Men at Arms, Feat of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, Night Watch_) is probably the strongest, though _Guards!Guards!_ is, like most of Pratchett's early work, not up to his later standards. The Death subseries (_Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, Theif of Time_) runs a close second, though, if you like Susan.

The Witches are fun but repetitive (pretty much every Witch book except _Equal Rites_ is a variation on the same theme). And of the Rincewind books, only _Interesting Times_ would make Pratchett's top ten; they just don't flow as well as the other series, for some reason. Of the standalones, I like _Small Gods_ and _The Truth_ somewhat more than _Pyramids, Moving Pictures, and Monstrous Regiment_.


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## TheAuldGrump (Dec 12, 2004)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Just look at the username.
> 
> As for best books...um...all of them?  Alright, I can pick a few at least. Guards! Guards!(the first one I read), Interesting Times, Reaper Man(anything with Death, in fact...so all of them again), Mort, Eric, Men at Arms, and the Wee Free Men books(Hat Full of Sky was great!). Hmm...Mosntrous Regiment and Nightwatch are great too. Bah! I can't pick.
> 
> Shilsen's really nailed it with Pratchett's writing on the human condition. The characters are just so great. And they've inspired not just one D&D characters. Had a Druid with a very Rincewind like attitude towards nature itself. "I like nature!...as long as it stays outside."




There is a Death of Rats floating around these boards as well.

Pratchett is one of those writers that just keeps getting better. His earlier Discworld books were merely satire - among other things the D&D magic rules are lampooned. (Yes, once upon a time he played D&D...)

I pretty much ended up stealing his version of dwarfs from The Fifth Elephant, it just made too much sense.

And Paul Kidby was born to illustrate Terry Pratchett.

The Auld Grump - the Patrician is my hero, a very solid Lawful Evil producing good results.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 12, 2004)

The Patrician Lawful EVIL?! Ha! Lawful Neutral all the way. The perfect Lawful Netrual. In fact, he's more Lawful Lawful than anything. 

...its those mimes that are true Evil...


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## Zappo (Dec 12, 2004)

Big fan here. I'm slowly picking up every book as my finances allow it. There is a definite change of style over time in Pratchett's books. I like the latest ones better than the first ones - The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic are fairly unfocused, they read a bit like collections of short stories and the characters aren't too well defined yet. The fact that the Italian translations are god-awful doesn't help either. Luckily, that was many years ago; I later got much better at reading English and now only buy the books in original language. Rincewind is my favorite character by far - it's that Discworld game that did it for me. Death is awesome, too.

I've also read a couple of his other books; Good Omen (with Gaiman) is truly masterwork, but I didn't like The Carpet People, probably because it's earlier and much more children-oriented.


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## Berandor (Dec 12, 2004)

Pratchett hatchets other authors.


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## Chimera (Dec 12, 2004)

Great author.  Love his stuff.

The only problem is that, with @30 books out, I can no longer keep track of what I have and what I don't have.  Got nearly 20 in paperback and a couple in hardcover.  Afraid to buy new ones for fear that I'll get home and find it already on my shelves.

Love all the little stabs too.  Like in _Night Watch_ where the guy yells "They can take away our lives, but they can never take away our freedom!".  Whereupon all the attackers stop in confusion at 'possibly the worst thought out revolutionary slogan of all time', then kill the guy.  (Take that, Mel Gibson!)

But my favorite scene of all-time is when DEATH goes fly-fishing.


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## shilsen (Dec 12, 2004)

Zappo said:
			
		

> The fact that the Italian translations are god-awful doesn't help either.




I know Pratchett has been translated into a number of languages, but since so much of his humour lies in his awareness of language and the way he puns and makes plays on words, I wonder how much is lost in translation. I haven't read Pratchett in anything other than English, so could someone who has read the translations comment on this? Zappo's comment seems clearly a thumbs-down.

Another question for Pratchett fans - do you get much enjoyment out of catching the little allusions that he so liberally sprinkles through the text? I always get a little frisson of delight from realizing that William de Worde is a reference to the Elizabethan printer Wynkyn de Worde or that the title of Monstrous Regiment is a reference to John Knox's "The First Blast of the Trumpet against the Monstrous Regiment of Women". Do others do so too, or must I bask alone in the light of my unbearable nerdiness ?


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## Capellan (Dec 12, 2004)

For me, it is easier to pick the 'failures' in the series than the successes: The Fifth Elephant, Lost Continent, Equal Rites -- these are all books that I found disappointing, compared to his other work.

They aren't _bad_, but they also aren't as good as the others.


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## Berandor (Dec 12, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> I know Pratchett has been translated into a number of languages, but since so much of his humour lies in his awareness of language and the way he puns and makes plays on words, I wonder how much is lost in translation. I haven't read Pratchett in anything other than English, so could someone who has read the translations comment on this? Zappo's comment seems clearly a thumbs-down.
> 
> Another question for Pratchett fans - do you get much enjoyment out of catching the little allusions that he so liberally sprinkles through the text? I always get a little frisson of delight from realizing that William de Worde is a reference to the Elizabethan printer Wynkyn de Worde or that the title of Monstrous Regiment is a reference to John Knox's "The First Blast of the Trumpet against the Monstrous Regiment of Women". Do others do so too, or must I bask alone in the light of my unbearable nerdiness ?



 You must bask alone.

I find the German translations to be pretty good, actually, even though some names or phrases I translate to English to see whether there's something hidden in them. Despite the high quality, though, I'm pretty sure the German version is not as good as the original, simply because you can't really translate every pun or allusion to a German equivalent.


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## Staffan (Dec 12, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> Another question for Pratchett fans - do you get much enjoyment out of catching the little allusions that he so liberally sprinkles through the text? I always get a little frisson of delight from realizing that William de Worde is a reference to the Elizabethan printer Wynkyn de Worde or that the title of Monstrous Regiment is a reference to John Knox's "The First Blast of the Trumpet against the Monstrous Regiment of Women". Do others do so too, or must I bask alone in the light of my unbearable nerdiness ?



I like that too, though I don't get them all. That's why god (or at least alt.fan.pratchett) invented the Annotated Pratchett File, at http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/index.html.


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## haiiro (Dec 12, 2004)

Pratchett is one of my favorite authors, but others have already said everything I would have brought up about him. 

I'll just add that at a signing, I asked him to write something Rincewind-related in my copy of Interesting Times (probably my favorite overall), and he did:

"Stercus, stercus, stercus!"

I had to go look it up -- it's Latin for, "Sh*t, sh*t, sh*t!" That man has style.


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## Christopher Lambert (Dec 12, 2004)

I love his work.

I've read more than 80% of his Diskworld books and there were only a few I didn't like.

Err... not much more to say. Sometimes I feel like statting up some of his characters in D20; Cohen would be amazing to do.

IMO the Patrician is borderline between LN and LE... although I'm a big fan of D20 Modern where allegiances aren't straightjackets. (Best version of alignment I've seen in DnD is the Honor-Bound feat from Dragonlance.) Alas, the Patrician's personality is only given a good reveal in _Jingo_ and _Night Watch_ (IMO) and I didn't like _Jingo_.


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## nonamazing (Dec 12, 2004)

Pratchett is, of course, an excellent writer--probably one of the greatest of our times.  He has a very elegant grasp of the language and is able to use it evoke emotion in a consistant way.  I only wish that his books were as popular here in America as they are in the UK, where they're constantly on multiple best-seller lists.


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## Particle_Man (Dec 12, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> Another question for Pratchett fans - do you get much enjoyment out of catching the little allusions that he so liberally sprinkles through the text?




I too like the references, although I am sure I didn't get them all.  Great to have that link now, though.  

Pratchett himself had to help me with one.  One of the Rincewind books has some other wizard describe Rincewind as "Number two to an ape" (the Librarian).  Then a bit down the page, the same wizard says "That's rather good, isn't it?  Number two to an ape" and then I got it -- a reference to 



Spoiler



The Prisoner, final episode!



It seemed like somehow Pratchett had accurately judged my perceptiveness and knew I would need help to get that reference!  How cool is that?


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## TheAuldGrump (Dec 12, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> I know Pratchett has been translated into a number of languages, but since so much of his humour lies in his awareness of language and the way he puns and makes plays on words, I wonder how much is lost in translation. I haven't read Pratchett in anything other than English, so could someone who has read the translations comment on this? Zappo's comment seems clearly a thumbs-down.
> 
> Another question for Pratchett fans - do you get much enjoyment out of catching the little allusions that he so liberally sprinkles through the text? I always get a little frisson of delight from realizing that William de Worde is a reference to the Elizabethan printer Wynkyn de Worde or that the title of Monstrous Regiment is a reference to John Knox's "The First Blast of the Trumpet against the Monstrous Regiment of Women". Do others do so too, or must I bask alone in the light of my unbearable nerdiness ?




I didn't catch Wynkyn deWorde, but I did catch Knoxe. How many puns and allusions did Pratchett manage to fit into that one, short title?

Going Postal is essentially a quick dance through the histories of both stamps and paper money. And Ankh-Morpork borrows from so very many cities... from Elizabethian London to post fire Seattle, and I think a bit of Chicago, or at least some city that sinks slowly into the ground... (They used to build extra doors on the second floors of Chicago buildings, with the assumpion that it would eventually sink to that level...)

And how many pokes did Soul Music make at the movie _The Blues Brothers_?

The Auld Grump


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 12, 2004)

Who is this Pratchett guy?


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## Tonguez (Dec 12, 2004)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> And how many pokes did Soul Music make at the movie _The Blues Brothers_?
> The Auld Grump




Where on a mission from Grod!

Pratchett is way way kewl best author eva!

Discworld ranks as the best series ever (especially the Death series, Susan Sto Helit is a babe). 

I do find he does 'explain' his allusions alot and sometimes keeps making the jke so often that it gets stale (notable in Thief of Time or was it The Truth)

The Bromeliad (Nomes) books were good too and pretty much inform my conception of gNomes (along with the smurfs and wee mad arthur)

Anyway another question - a lot of his humour is very 'british' (although it got more worldly as he developed) does the humour translate into different cultural melees? (ie do those of you not of the commonwealth 'get the joke?')

*the example used at alt.Pratchett is of _Djellibeybi_. Apparently PTerry was concerned Americans would get it and so he named a neighbouring country _'Hersheba'_

(then again Enworld readers may be more worldly (and used to British humour) than other Americans)


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## Zappo (Dec 13, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> I know Pratchett has been translated into a number of languages, but since so much of his humour lies in his awareness of language and the way he puns and makes plays on words, I wonder how much is lost in translation. I haven't read Pratchett in anything other than English, so could someone who has read the translations comment on this? Zappo's comment seems clearly a thumbs-down.



I'll be more precise: Pratchett's books are extremely hard to translate and there is probably no way to get them to be as good as the original versions. However, after reading The Light Fantastic and The Colour of Magic in both Italian and English, I feel that the translator did a rather poor job, even while considering the inherent difficulty of the text. Those two books are full of moments where the English reader will laugh, but the Italian reader will go "huh?" at some 100% nonsensical and unfunny passage. Most of my friends who can't read English well enough to pick up the original versions don't like Pratchett for this reason.

 It may be that the most recent books have gotten better, but with my current skill at English I see no reason to get the Italian editions anyway.


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## Look_a_Unicorn (Dec 13, 2004)

I loves me the Pratchetty goodness!

*ahem*

Because of Pratchett I now fully understand the term "chocolate books". Just like girls (apparantly) love to curl up somewhere warm and safe and eat chocolate when they're not feeling that great, a chocolate book is one that is such a familiar pleasure that you can pick up and read through at any time and feel both comforted and ..well.. better.

And the British humour translates very well into the Australian conscious, that's for sure.
His books/style/humour have definitely improved over time. I oculd nitpick but it would be like saying "That feast was delicious, but not quite as tasty as the one we had last month"


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## haiiro (Dec 13, 2004)

Look_a_Unicorn said:
			
		

> Because of Pratchett I now fully understand the term "chocolate books". Just like girls (apparantly) love to curl up somewhere warm and safe and eat chocolate when they're not feeling that great, a chocolate book is one that is such a familiar pleasure that you can pick up and read through at any time and feel both comforted and ..well.. better.




What a great term! I was thinking about this very topic while re-reading some Pratchett recently, and realizing that I hadn't read anything to challenge myself in quite awhile. But I couldn't come up with a better term than "reading for pleasure" -- this sums it up so much better.


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## Felix (Dec 13, 2004)

See signature.

I was in the restroom of the law firm I was at when I read that line. On the toilet, actually. The resulting combination of the laughter and the situation produced something not unlike what is described below. 

Damn you, Pratchett. Too bloody funny.


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## ddvmor (Dec 13, 2004)

Everything the man writes is gold.  Recently he's been knocking out 2 books a year, which worried me somewhat - I was concerned that the quality of his writing would suffer.  It hasn't so far, but it's costing me a packet!  I haven't bought Going Postal yet in the hope that someone will give it to me for Christmas (you hear me Russ... that's a hint, that is!).

I'd love to see him satirise the building of the British Empire.  I don't think he's covered huge corporations or traffic management yet, either.


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## shilsen (Dec 13, 2004)

Zappo said:
			
		

> I'll be more precise: Pratchett's books are extremely hard to translate and there is probably no way to get them to be as good as the original versions.




Even without having read any of the translations, I agree totally. Translation is tough enough as is, and in the case of an author with a real awareness of both the complexity and the arbitrariness of language (as well as aural qualities, which Pratchett is brilliant on), it gets next to impossible. I've always read lines like "Nobby was thrown out of the human race for shoving" or "We're on a mission from Glod" and wondered whether it's possible to tranlsate them effectively in another language. Probably not.


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## John Q. Mayhem (Dec 13, 2004)

Pratchett is awesome.

Translating his books...man, that'd be like translating Tolkien   
Not a job I'd want.


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## John Q. Mayhem (Dec 13, 2004)

Mustrum, about your sig..."Gummibears also help?" What is the significance? Is it a quote?


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## LordVyreth (Dec 13, 2004)

I've just recently got into Pratchett, and am currently trying to work my way through the series in order (except for Lords and Ladies and Men At Arms, which I read before making the decision.)  I'm midway through Small Gods so far, and like what I've read, though I agree that he's been improving as he goes.  My favorites to date include Pyramids and Moving Pictures.  Of the series regulars, my favorites are probably Rincewind, Death, and Magrat, though the last is probably mostly because she has to put up with Granny Weatherwax, who's probably my least favorite series regular.  

My only complaint is that sometimes his endings tend to peter out a bit.  There were a few I liked (like Pyramids,) but a lot either get anticlimatic or incomprehensible.


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## Daniel Knight (Dec 14, 2004)

/looks at signiture

*caugh* Discworld Movie *caugh*

/buggers off into lurkville again.


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## Darkness (Dec 14, 2004)

Zappo said:
			
		

> Pratchett's books are extremely hard to translate and there is probably no way to get them to be as good as the original versions.



 I agree that the original versions are best but the German translations, of which I used to read a lot, aren't bad.


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## shilsen (Dec 14, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> My only complaint is that sometimes his endings tend to peter out a bit.  There were a few I liked (like Pyramids,) but a lot either get anticlimatic or incomprehensible.




Of course you'd have to ask the man to be sure, but considering his writing style and general philosophy (sure, I read Pratchett for philosophy), I always thought that was a stylistic choice. Endings, realistically, are not about climaxes or neat wrap-ups, and Pratchett is just about the most realistic writer I've ever read, so I always figured that the kind of endings he has are a direct result of that.

P.S. Any examples of endings which you found anticlimactic and/or incomprehensible?


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## haiiro (Dec 14, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> I've always read lines like "Nobby was thrown out of the human race for shoving" or "We're on a mission from Glod" and wondered whether it's possible to tranlsate them effectively in another language. Probably not.




It seems like you'd have to toss out the idea of translating them directly, and go with finding an idiom in the target language that approximates ones like what you mentioned above -- complete with target language cultural references. The product wouldn't be an "exact" translation by any means, but it would have a similar _feel_, and ideally get a similar point across -- but most importantly, it would hopefully still be funny!

From the bit of translation theory I studied in college, I came away preferring that approach. Much like turning a great book into a great movie, not everything can make the transition -- but if you can preserve the heart of it, and enough of the trappings, you wind up with something like Jackon's LotR trilogy: not exact, but faithful and just as good in a different way.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 14, 2004)

John Q. Mayhem said:
			
		

> Mustrum, about your sig..."Gummibears also help?" What is the significance? Is it a quote?



It´s a quote, but not related to Discworld. My cousine (as she was 3 or 4 years old) said it in a conversation with one of my aunts. 
I can´t remeber the exact course of it, but the end of the conversation was approximately as following:
"Look, I have 'ouch' " (I don´t know if that´s what english-speaking children say  )
"Oh, ouch? Then you will need a plaster. That will help."
"Gummibears do also help"


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## Null Boundry (Dec 14, 2004)

His early work is interesting enough but for the last 10 years or so he has simply been recycling the ideas.


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## TheAuldGrump (Dec 14, 2004)

ddvmor said:
			
		

> Everything the man writes is gold.  Recently he's been knocking out 2 books a year, which worried me somewhat - I was concerned that the quality of his writing would suffer.  It hasn't so far, but it's costing me a packet!  I haven't bought Going Postal yet in the hope that someone will give it to me for Christmas (you hear me Russ... that's a hint, that is!).
> 
> I'd love to see him satirise the building of the British Empire.  I don't think he's covered huge corporations or traffic management yet, either.




Haven't read _Going Postal_ yet?  


Spoiler



Trust me, there is indeed some huge corporate stuff in it.


 Not much of a spoiler, but well, it's Pratchett...

And some Vetinari goodness too.

I really don't think he has been recycling ideas, characters, settings, themes, yes. Plots? No.

The Auld Grump


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## John Q. Mayhem (Dec 14, 2004)

That's hilarious, Mustrum!

And Going Postal rocks.


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## Tonguez (Dec 15, 2004)

> I'd love to see him satirise the building of the British Empire. I don't think he's covered huge corporations or traffic management yet, either.




Isn't *Strata* pretty much huge corporations?
Detritus is a comment of Traffic management
and the British Empire - um Jingo?


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## shilsen (Dec 15, 2004)

haiiro said:
			
		

> It seems like you'd have to toss out the idea of translating them directly, and go with finding an idiom in the target language that approximates ones like what you mentioned above -- complete with target language cultural references. The product wouldn't be an "exact" translation by any means, but it would have a similar _feel_, and ideally get a similar point across -- but most importantly, it would hopefully still be funny!
> 
> From the bit of translation theory I studied in college, I came away preferring that approach. Much like turning a great book into a great movie, not everything can make the transition -- but if you can preserve the heart of it, and enough of the trappings, you wind up with something like Jackon's LotR trilogy: not exact, but faithful and just as good in a different way.




I think you nailed it perfectly. I've done some translation work myself, and I did my best work when I avoided direct translation but instead focused on trying to get the spirit of the text into the idiom of the language I was translating it into. I've never done anything like Pratchett, but I have done nonsense verse, and that's a genre where you seriously have to work with _feel_, as you put it, and try to retain the humour of it. Direct translation would have sucked royally.


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## LordVyreth (Dec 16, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> Of course you'd have to ask the man to be sure, but considering his writing style and general philosophy (sure, I read Pratchett for philosophy), I always thought that was a stylistic choice. Endings, realistically, are not about climaxes or neat wrap-ups, and Pratchett is just about the most realistic writer I've ever read, so I always figured that the kind of endings he has are a direct result of that.
> 
> P.S. Any examples of endings which you found anticlimactic and/or incomprehensible?




Well, to be fair, keep in mind that I'm still only in the first half of his novels, so he probably improves in the later books.  Well, let's go through the endings that I read so far, just to speed things up.

The Colour of Magic: This one barely counts, since it's really more a collection of short stories than a full novel.

The Light Fantastic:  This is a pretty good example, honestly.  I didn't entire understand what the red star was, and any story that ends with too heavy a focus on the Dungeon Dimension tends to get too esoteric for me.

Equal Rites: Another good example.  It started out as an interesting tale about gender relations in the magic industry, but it just got weird when the main character (who's name I can't even remember any more,) got sucked into the Dungeon Dimension.  Plus, it was annoying that she never got used again and had no seeming effect on Discworld.

Mort: This was more like it.  I liked the final battle in the sand room between Death and Mort, but it was a little too "happy" an ending for me, with everyone getting married an all.

Sourcery: Despite my normal Dungeon Dimension aversion, this one worked for me more.  Probably my favorite ending so far.

Wyrd Sisters:  This one was okay, but like I mentioned before, Granny-centric plots just don't work for me.

Pyramids: One of my favorites.  I don't see any real problems with it.

Guards, Guards: This is a good example of the 'anticlimatic' endings.  The little dragon essentially defeated the novel's villain by altering its body to fart at super-sonic speed, and then the two went off to mate.  I thought Carrot ended up being underused as a result.

Eric: Another short-stories collection, but I liked the ending despite.  It was about as positive as a Rincewind story gets, and I like how the "evil" devil lord was promoted out of power.

Moving Pictures:  This one's mixed for me.  I liked the climatic battle in Ankh-Morpok quite a bit, especially the King Kong parody, but I didn't really get the whole "Oswald" bit at the end.

Reaper Man: I didn't really get this book, to be honest.  So the abundance of life force creates snow globes out of now where, which hatch into shopping carts that form a parasitic shopping mall?  Disturbing, but didn't feel as appropriate as most Practhett stories.  And the new death was defeated too easily, in both its original and mechanical forms.

Witches Abroad: Another overly Granny plot, though the mirror magic element at the end was cool, especially with Lily's final fate.

I'm working on Small Gods now, so I'll just stop here, and won't comment on Lords and Ladies or Men at Arms until after I finish that one.


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## Umbra (Dec 17, 2004)

ddvmor said:
			
		

> Everything the man writes is gold.  Recently he's been knocking out 2 books a year, which worried me somewhat - I was concerned that the quality of his writing would suffer.



Actually, the publisher is releasing ONLY two books a year, so Terry curtailed his writing in the series.

Terry comes out to Australia on a fairly regular basis and he has explained during radio interviews that the publisher will not release more than two books a year due to a combination of fear of diluting the fans wanting more and them having time to sell hardcovers before the paperback comes out.  At some point he had (IIRC) three Discworld maniscripts waiting for publication.

And for those of you who missed my post in the off-topic forum.
Greebo Lives!!


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## FireLance (Dec 17, 2004)

Well, I'm a pretty big Pratchett fan, and I do agree that his later books have been much better than his earlier ones. If I had to pick favorites, I'd have to go with Hogfather, Small Gods, Feet of Clay and Carpe Jugulum.


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## Wombat (Dec 17, 2004)

Joining in late to the fray, let me say that I was a very late convert to Terry Pratchett, but I have been steadily making up for lost time.

I prefer the Watch series most of all, but that is like saying I prefer chocolate to vanilla -- both are excellent under the right circumstances.  I also love the Witches books and most of the Death books.  

As for Rincewind, well, he's more or less a one-trick-pony -- he runs away.  What parts of his books I enjoy tend to be because of other characters (yeah, Cohen and the Silver Horde!), not Rincewind himself (who I find rather annoying).

And then there is Death.  He's just cool  

Probably my fave books (for obscure reasons) are _Carpe Jugulum_, _The Fifth Elephant_, and _Soul Music_, but I'll read almost any of them.  And I am still impressed by the seriousness of _Night Watch_.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 17, 2004)

Although I really like the Death series and the Watch books, and am pleased about the more serious turn the Watch series took with Night Watch (which was a classic), I really do like Rincewind. More so than all the rest of the books, Rincewind-centric books tend to be overtly comic. And I like that. And his philosophy on running and heroism strikes a wierd chord in my cowardly soul. No, I don't know why.

Personally, just going off of Lord Vyreth's list, Reaper Man was one of my favorites. The parasitic shopping mall was disturbing, but the main focus of the book is on Death, which really shines. And of course the New Death goes down a bit easily; Death has a lot more experience at the whole Death bit.

Demiurge out.

PS: Which book do you think is the weakest of the Discworld series? Personally, my money's on Pyramids (one of the few I haven't reread) or Eric (it was enjoyable, but just way too short)


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## Tonguez (Dec 17, 2004)

demiurge1138 said:
			
		

> PS: Which book do you think is the weakest of the Discworld series? Personally, my money's on Pyramids (one of the few I haven't reread) or Eric (it was enjoyable, but just way too short)




I liked Pyramids

I'd say Colour of Magic (which I forgive for being PTerry's 'practice' Discworld novel) and Eric are my least favourite. Actually I too think Rincewind is just a bit boring as a character (the real stars being the Librarian and the Luggage) - although I did like Interesting Times and the XXXX 'jokes' in Last Continent.


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## haiiro (Dec 17, 2004)

demiurge1138 said:
			
		

> PS: Which book do you think is the weakest of the Discworld series? Personally, my money's on Pyramids (one of the few I haven't reread) or Eric (it was enjoyable, but just way too short)




Maskerade. It's one of the few I haven't re-read more than once -- Agnes/Perdita is an interesting enough character, but the stories involvig her seem to be so heavy-handed by comparison to the others. Same goes for Carpe Jugulum, to a lesser extent (Igor and Granny Weatherwax go a long way to making that one more enjoyable).


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Dec 17, 2004)

Not to brag, but I was the Assistant Editor at HarperCollins Publishers on all TP's books that were released between _Maskerade_ and _Last Continent_.   

Great writer and a very nice guy. Some of his correspondance was very funny, and he was one of the few authors who always made his due dates for corrections. I just wish I had been able to meet him, but he didn't tour in the US for any of the books I worked on. It figures that HarperCollins brought him here right after I left the company.


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## Aesmael (Dec 17, 2004)

I, too, would like to express my fondness for that particular author.


			
				haiiro said:
			
		

> "Stercus, stercus, stercus!"
> 
> I had to go look it up -- it's Latin for, "Sh*t, sh*t, sh*t!" That man has style.



"O Excrement, I am going to die," indeed. One of my very favourite books. Love the horde.  

And now it is time for a little parable. A few weeks ago Pratchett was doing a signing for _Going Postal_, but on that particular day I had an exam. So I gave my sister some money to get it done for me, very nice of her. Alas, she went to the wrong store (Borders, five minutes walk away from Galaxy where the signing was at) and spent the whole afternoon not buying the book and getting it signed.
The moral of this story is that americans, being responsible for Borders, do not deserve Pratchett books.


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## Umbra (Dec 17, 2004)

Found _the_ line that had me in absolute hysterics when I first read it some eleven years ago.  A vampire had encountered Nanny's cat Greebo...



> The bat squirmed under his claw. It seemed to Greebo's small cat brain that it was trying to change its shape, and he wasn't having any of that from a mouse with wings on.
> 
> Especially now, when he had someone to play with.




And a little later, the line...



> Under the table, Greebo sat and washed himself.  Occasionally he burped.
> 
> Vampires have risen from the dead, the grave and the crypt, but have never managed it from the cat.



  Still brings a smile to my face.


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## kolvar (Dec 17, 2004)

If I read only one book a year, it is my pratchett I get at x-mess-eve (if all goes well I have read it the second time by new year). Alas, I have to read two books a year (the second pratchett).
The reason, why there are so few pratchett threads here? There are so many Pratchett-boards out there, why bother to post here?
Best? Night Watch (The Angels rise up, rise up: I got the complete song and nearly cried) (maybe followed by Last Hero, because it is so beautiful)
Worst? Equal Rites: The only one I read twice, only.

About German translation: I found them horrible. There is a file on the internet with mistakes made by the translator (come on, Enemy of Dust when said to a sweeper ist not "Enemy made of Dust"). Says something about the auther, that even the translator could not destroy his work. (And I started with the German translations: Farben der Magie, Goldmann, black cover with some strange woman that was so typical for those days (that was before it went to Heyne and back to Goldmann). And I realy did not get the name of this Game (some building to cross a river) until I sat in a train and made everyone look at me from my silly laughs (OK, I was 14))

Some comments:


			
				LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Mort: This was more like it.  I liked the final battle in the sand room between Death and Mort, but it was a little too "happy" an ending for me, with everyone getting married an all.



Well, you have to read Soul Music. Mort loses a bit of its "happy" Ending.



			
				LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Guards, Guards: This is a good example of the 'anticlimatic' endings.  The little dragon essentially defeated the novel's villain by altering its body to fart at super-sonic speed, and then the two went off to mate.  I thought Carrot ended up being underused as a result.



But that is the greatness! He is the ultimate Hero (at least, he would be in any other novel): Young, naive, powerful, royal-blooded. But it is not he, who saves the day. And the novel, where he shines, like he could (Men at Arms and the end of Five Elephants), he does so, because he denies his heritage.



			
				LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Moving Pictures:  This one's mixed for me.  I liked the climatic battle in Ankh-Morpok quite a bit, especially the King Kong parody, but I didn't really get the whole "Oswald" bit at the end.



You must be kidding. Have you ever watched the "Oscars". How the actors and what-evers sit there, self absorbed, grinning. The thought (wish), that it would be a good thing, that something drained all these smiles away, gets rather strong at times.


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## Brakkart (Dec 18, 2004)

I'm a semi-regular reader of Pratchett's books, tend to be very picky with everything I read and I'd read a few of his less impressives novels, so I don't read everything he puts out.

Having said that I love the Guards series of books, Commander Sir Samuel Vimes is far and away my fave character from the Discworld (with Igor as a close second).

As for fave books, I'd say Feet Of Clay is probably top of my list, followed by Hogfather (gotta love the Oh God of Hangovers!), and a tie between Fifth Elephant and Nightwatch for third place.

I really like the novel Soul Music, but I actually prefer the cartoon of it, I just find that a satire on rock music and such works better when you can actually hear the songs. Especially as the songs in the cartoons (and the Band With Rocks In's stage costumes) all parody various artists as well, adding to the effect.


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## LordVyreth (Dec 18, 2004)

kolvar said:
			
		

> But that is the greatness! He is the ultimate Hero (at least, he would be in any other novel): Young, naive, powerful, royal-blooded. But it is not he, who saves the day. And the novel, where he shines, like he could (Men at Arms and the end of Five Elephants), he does so, because he denies his heritage.




Yeah, I did like him in Man at Arms.  I don't know, it just felt too sudden some how.  It's hard to describe.



			
				kolvar said:
			
		

> You must be kidding. Have you ever watched the "Oscars". How the actors and what-evers sit there, self absorbed, grinning. The thought (wish), that it would be a good thing, that something drained all these smiles away, gets rather strong at times.




Oh, I got the Oscar=Oswald reference.  I just didn't get the mechanism for how it worked exactly.  How did reviving Oswald end the Holywood effect? (Heh, it almost sounds like something out of Silent Hill there, especially with all the fog and...nightmarish...monsters.  Wow, that is a weird coincidence.)  Were all the dead people in the audience killed by the Dungeon Dimension monsters, like what almost happened in Ankh-Morpok?  If so, why were they still smiling?  I just felt like I missed something at the end there.  

Oh and on that note, didn't Gaspode come back in Men At Arms?  If so, did they explain how he could still talk and think?  It's been a while, and reading them out of order made remembering tricky.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 18, 2004)

Gaspode's return to intelligence was never really explained; it was just that Pratchett liked the character and brought him back. My theory is that he became intelligent again in the same manner as Ankh-Morpork rats and The Amazing Maurice, due to magical runoff from Unseen University.

Of course, it doesn't really _need_ explaining. 

Demiurge out.


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## Tonguez (Dec 18, 2004)

demiurge1138 said:
			
		

> Gaspode's return to intelligence was never really explained; it was just that Pratchett liked the character and brought him back. My theory is that he became intelligent again in the same manner as Ankh-Morpork rats and The Amazing Maurice, due to magical runoff from Unseen University.
> Demiurge out.




Thats exactly how it was explained (can't remember which book but I know it involved the beggars)

- Gaspode had taken to sleeping under the University and the fall-out affected his Thaumatic field (sort of like Greebo's 'extra talent')


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## LordVyreth (Dec 20, 2004)

Oh, and though I did gripe about a lot of the endings, I just finished Small Gods, and I have to say that the ending to that one was great!  Probably my new favorite ending, especially the final scene with Brutha and Vorbis in the Desert of Judgement.


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## shilsen (Dec 20, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Oh, and though I did gripe about a lot of the endings, I just finished Small Gods, and I have to say that the ending to that one was great!  Probably my new favorite ending, especially the final scene with Brutha and Vorbis in the Desert of Judgement.



 That's one of my favorite Pratchett novels. Incidentally, did you note the change in tone in "Small Gods" from many of the others? I find that Pratchett's satire and irony gets a little ... how do I put it? ... grimmer when he writes about subjects like that.


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## LordVyreth (Dec 20, 2004)

Yes, this was definately darker than I expected.  I can see why some reviewers have said this was the first real "grown up" Discworld novel.  Even Brutha was much deeper than most of the core Discworld protagonists.


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## shilsen (Dec 22, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Yes, this was definately darker than I expected.  I can see why some reviewers have said this was the first real "grown up" Discworld novel.  Even Brutha was much deeper than most of the core Discworld protagonists.



 First real "grown up" Discworld novel? Sounds like reviewers who should re-read something like _Witches Abroad_ and think about what that book says on the subjects of identity, political power, the nature of good and evil, cultural parochialism. And pumpkins, of course


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## drnuncheon (Dec 22, 2004)

LordVyreth said:
			
		

> Guards, Guards: This is a good example of the 'anticlimatic' endings. The little dragon essentially defeated the novel's villain by altering its body to fart at super-sonic speed, and then the two went off to mate. I thought Carrot ended up being underused as a result.



 Really?  I always thought that Carrot got 'underused' because Pterry realized that Vimes was so much more interesting as a character.

 J


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## Ferret (Dec 23, 2004)

I can hardly remember the books I have read, but titles rarely matter. Pratchett is a brilliant writer!


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 23, 2004)

drnuncheon said:
			
		

> Really?  I always thought that Carrot got 'underused' because Pterry realized that Vimes was so much more interesting as a character.
> 
> J



Right you are. I remember reading somewhere (it might have been the Art of Discworld), that Carrot was originally supposed to be the lead of Guards! Guards!, but that Vimes eventually became more interesting as Pratchett wrote.

Demiurge out.


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## shilsen (Dec 25, 2004)

demiurge1138 said:
			
		

> Right you are. I remember reading somewhere (it might have been the Art of Discworld), that Carrot was originally supposed to be the lead of Guards! Guards!, but that Vimes eventually became more interesting as Pratchett wrote.
> 
> Demiurge out.



 Sounds reasonable. You do get a sense of that in the novel, though presumably Pratchett redid the earlier parts of "Guards! Guards!" to reflect the change in focus. Carrot is a very interesting character, esp. because Pratchett rarely lets you see what's going on in his head (you often see what Vimes is - and others are- thinking, but almost never Carrot), but he's not a patch on Vimes. I don't think I've ever read about a more consistently pissed-off character than Sir Samuel


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 25, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> Sounds reasonable. You do get a sense of that in the novel, though presumably Pratchett redid the earlier parts of "Guards! Guards!" to reflect the change in focus. Carrot is a very interesting character, esp. because Pratchett rarely lets you see what's going on in his head (you often see what Vimes is - and others are- thinking, but almost never Carrot), but he's not a patch on Vimes. I don't think I've ever read about a more consistently pissed-off character than Sir Samuel



 Take it from me, its all the plumes. Those stupid plumes.


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## Dragonblade (Dec 25, 2004)

I'm an on again-off again reader. I like the Guards sub-series the best but his other stuff is good too.

Carpe Jugulum is one of my favorites. "Sometimes you cannot see the Light until you thrust it into the Darkness." 

I'm probably misquoting the source, but this statement is a mantra often quoted by paladins I play in D&D.


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## shilsen (Dec 28, 2004)

Has anybody here read the latest novel "Going Postal"? I haven't had a chance to pick it up yet, so I was just curious. Another one I haven't taken a look at yet is "The Last Hero". Opinions about either?


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## haiiro (Dec 28, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> Has anybody here read the latest novel "Going Postal"? I haven't had a chance to pick it up yet, so I was just curious. Another one I haven't taken a look at yet is "The Last Hero". Opinions about either?




Last Hero is one of my favorite Discworld books overall -- like Interesting Times, you get to see a lot more of Cohen the Barbarian, the art is great, and it's just a lot of fun to read.

Going Postal is quite enjoyable. I'm blanking on his name, but the main character is neat -- and there's a bit more insight into Vetinari, which I always enjoy.


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## John Q. Mayhem (Dec 28, 2004)

Going Postal is, indeed, quite good. Last Hero is a good story, and even if it sucked it's worth it for the last passage and the picture of the bard...practically brings tears to my eyes. In a good way.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 29, 2004)

Lost Hero is great just for the patch on their space suits "We Who Are About to die don't want to" 

And Going Postal also rocks. I also really loved the Wee Free Men stuff, especially A Hat Full of Sky. Fun stuff. I'm going back and rereading the books at the moment...Feet of Clay right now, followed by some Nightwatch. Oooh, yeah.


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## shilsen (Dec 29, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Sounds like two more to add to my shelf. Okay, who am I kidding - they'd have ended up there anyway 



			
				Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I also really loved the Wee Free Men stuff, especially A Hat Full of Sky. Fun stuff. I'm going back and rereading the books at the moment...Feet of Clay right now, followed by some Nightwatch. Oooh, yeah.




I just picked up The Wee Free Men and am re-reading that. Along with tragedies by Lope de Vega and Corneille, and Complete Arcane. Seems like the appropriate kind of eclecticism for Pratchett


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