# what anime should I start collecting?



## Enchantress (Jun 23, 2003)

Help!  I need a purpose!  I need a new anime series to start collecting.  Anyone have any good ones?


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## Chun-tzu (Jun 23, 2003)

Remind us what you like/have already, besides Gundam Wing?


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## Enchantress (Jun 23, 2003)

Not much since I'm not rich.

Escaflowne: series and movie
Record of Lodoss Wars
Tenchi Muyo
Blue seed
Ninja Scroll

As far as things I like, that would be along the lines of a deep plotline, and good characters.


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## Pants (Jun 23, 2003)

TRIGUN!!!
Rurouni Kenshin is cool, although you could just watch it on CN


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## Enchantress (Jun 23, 2003)

Unfortunately, I do not have cartoon network.


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## Chun-tzu (Jun 23, 2003)

Here are some good series that are out on DVD and VHS:

Rurouni Kenshin - One of the best action shows ever. It takes place in medieval Japan, and is about a samurai named Kenshin who seeks redemption for the hundreds he killed during the revolution. It's pretty light-hearted in its tone, and like Ninja Scroll, the fight scenes are very smartly choreographed, not just mindless fighting. There are 95 episodes in the series, and the series hits its peak in the Kyoto story arc, volumes 7 to 14.

Rurouni Kenshin OAV1 - This 4-part (2 DVD) series is very different from the regular series. The series takes place before the Kenshin series, during the revolution, and this is reflected in the darker, more somber tone of the series. The soundtrack is awesome.

Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou (Kare Kano) - This is a 26 episode series about a high school romance. The show looks at the romance and the main characters in a much more interesting, compelling, and realistic way than your typical, mindless Hollywood romance.

Noir - This one's about two female assassins in France (noir is French for black). Good action scenes, nice art, interesting characters, good story.


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## Ranger REG (Jun 23, 2003)

*QUERY: "OVA"???*

I don't mean to sidetrack, but I've seen this "OVA" label, sometimes as part of the anime's title. What this mean?


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## Chun-tzu (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: QUERY: "OVA"???*



			
				Ranger REG said:
			
		

> *I don't mean to sidetrack, but I've seen this "OVA" label, sometimes as part of the anime's title. What this mean? *




OAV and OVA are interchangeable, and they're like special episodes. OAV stands for Only Available on Video, as these are direct to video and don't come out on TV first. OVA stands for Original Video Animation.

Most often OAVs are new episodes that take place after the series has ended (or they come out after the series ended, but take place somewhere in the middle, which is important when the final episode is pretty final). Some series come out on OAV first, though, like Record of Lodoss War. Some are movies. Rurouni Kenshin had 3 OAVs, one a prequel, one a movie, and one that takes place after the series.


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## Uzumaki (Jun 23, 2003)

Fruits Basket. Seriously. Fruits Basket. Run, don't walk, to get (or download) Fruits Basket. 
Gravitation.
Berserk, if you're feeling brave.


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## jdavis (Jun 23, 2003)

Thanks to the last big anime thread I have been collecting again myself. The stuff I have picked up recently:

RahXephon, this is excellent, if you liked Evangelion then you'll probably like RahXaphon. This is my latest addiction.

Samurai X (the Rurouni Kenshin OVA's and movie) Rurouni Kenshin is very good in general. I went out and bought the trust and betrayal director's cut a couple of weeks ago, it was amazing, particularly if you are a Kenshin fan to start with.

Generator Gawl, very similar to Guyver. It was pretty good, not great but it was interesting.

Bubblegum Crisis: Tokyo 2040, remake of the original OVA, this is a very good series. 

Blue Seed, very good (and the box set was very very cheap).

Bastard, confusing, looks like they skipped around the story some. I kept felling like I was missing a episode in between or that they had left something out. Was fun though, some parts had a very D&D feel to them.

Berserk, been covered on the boards several times before, great series, can't wait for the manga to make it to the states.

Martian Successor Nadesico, one of the best series I have ever seen. I watched the whole 26 episode series in two days, it kept me glued to the TV (the box set was only $80 or so). I highly recommend this series, very funny and very exciting.

Hopefully will be picking up the Cowboy Beebop movie soon and I am wanting to pick up the first DVD of Full Metal Panic when I get some money.

I've become a big fan of the encyclopedia section of http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/index.php  they have a very extensive list of anime, most with synopsis and reviews.


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## Chun-tzu (Jun 23, 2003)

Pants said:
			
		

> *Rurouni Kenshin is cool, although you could just watch it on CN *




Although I'm glad to see Kenshin getting more exposure, the voice acting in the English version is terrible. The delivery is sometimes bad, the wording is often awkward, and the voices they chose are sometimes bad choices (Sojiro, the right hand of Makoto Shishio is a prime example of this). The subtitled version is SO much better than the dubbed.


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## jdavis (Jun 23, 2003)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Although I'm glad to see Kenshin getting more exposure, the voice acting in the English version is terrible. The delivery is sometimes bad, the wording is often awkward, and the voices they chose are sometimes bad choices (Sojiro, the right hand of Makoto Shishio is a prime example of this). The subtitled version is SO much better than the dubbed. *



It's also edited on Cartoon Network but beggers can't be choosers. With 95 episodes it would be expensive to get them all on DVD.


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## Pants (Jun 24, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *It's also edited on Cartoon Network but beggers can't be choosers. With 95 episodes it would be expensive to get them all on DVD. *



Heh, I'll take what I can get as I am very poor right now (I can't even afford the last two Berserk DVD's  )
Inu Yasha is great fun, but the DVD releases have been horribly slow and horribly expensive.
I'm really digging Gundam SEED, but it isn't out in America yet (nor is it finished in Japan).


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## Chun-tzu (Jun 24, 2003)

I've only seen the first few episodes of Gundam Seed, but it looks pretty good.

I've seen the first six episodes of the new Ninja Scroll TV series, based on the anime and by the same creator, but to be honest, I'm disappointed. The fight scenes aren't nearly as smart as the movie, and Jubei doesn't seem as noble. The only thing they transferred over was killing all these freaky demon creatures, but that's not what made Ninja Scroll great.

I hear there's a new Fist of the North Star out, but I don't think it's been fan-subbed yet. Looking forward to that. The original manga was pretty cool, and this was a classic begging to be remade.

The new Macross OAV is pretty good. Only seen the first, but it ranks with Macross Plus, and is way better than Macross 7.

Edit - Oh, I've also seen the new Astro Boy cartoon. Looks pretty good.


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## Alzrius (Jun 24, 2003)

Enchantress, you'd help us help you a lot more if you told us the sort of thing you liked, I mean in terms of genre; anime covers every genre there is, and a significantly large portion has deep characters and good plotlines.

I'll add my vote to *Rurouni Kenshin*. While the anime isn't nearly as good as the manga (which I'm reading now - curse the animators for leaving out Enishi and crew!!), it's still quite good. As was said, the Kyoto Chronicles part is quite possibly the single best part of the entire series (having to work through what is a horribly large number of filler episodes to get there after the first arc of introducing the characters is over). The series is relatively fast-paced, but retains great character development. While there is a lot of fighting, its done very well, with emphasis on style and skill over power.

*Fruits Basket* is a romantic comedy. It's about this homeless girl who lives with the family of one of her classmates. She discovers that they have a curse that when they become nervous or are touched by a member of the opposite sex, they turn into an animal of the zodiac.

*Ushio & Tora* - I'm going out on a limb recommending this one. Only ten episodes of this exist as an anime, and it's not a title most people are immediately familiar with. I've only seen the first two episodes myself. I recommend it simply because I've been collecting the manga of it for a while now and I'm deeply hooked on it. It's the story of a boy who discovers that there is a demon imprisoned under his family's shrine by a powerful magic spear, when he's forced to remove the spear to combat other demons, he and the monster there form an unlikely friendship. The quality of the anime seemed to be a bit less than the manga, but it was still good, IMHO.

I don't think its available "above board" in America yet, but *Azumanga Daioh* is a very popular anime, despite being less than a year old. While the series has no intrinsic, underlying plot, its the story of a group of high school girls, displayed in an very well-done comedic fashion. We just follow them throughout their high school career as they live their lives. Don't expect drama or angst; this is all comedy. The best way I can describe this is that its an anime "show about nothing".

*Hellsing* - this dark thirteen-episode series is an action anime that takes place in contemporary Britain. Alucard is a vampire who works for the Hellsing organization, a group that eliminates undead activity in Britain. Along with fighting other vampires and their minions, they also face the papal organization Iscariot, which takes a much more fanatical stance on eliminating vampires, bringing the two organizations into conflict since Hellsing has a vampire working for it.

*Cowboy Bebop* - this highly acclaimed series is a space opera that has incredible characterization, and a plot that, although only developed a little, is incredibly well done. This series takes palce in the future, following a group of bounty hunters aboard the ship Bebop. Most of the episodes are largely independant of one another, and the series plays that as a strength, with some episodes that are hysterically funny, and others that are dark and quite frightening. The characterization displayed is rivalled by only a few other anime, and the soundtrack is impressive beyond words. I cannot recommend this series enough. If you only buy one anime series this year, bu this one!

*Neon Genesis Evangelion* - If you want deep plotlines and good characters, this is the series for you, bar none. This series has been hailed as the best anime to come out in the entirety of the 1990's, and it earns it. The series takes place in 2015. At the end of the 20th century, a cataclysm wiped out half the world's population. Now, unknown creatures have begun to attack humanity, and giant robots called Evangelions are used to fight them. For unknown reasons, only certain, special children can pilot the robots. I'll say it again, this series is excellent. The characters are incredibly well-developed, and the plotline even more so. This is not something you want to miss.


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## Pbartender (Jun 24, 2003)

I'm quite partial to anything made by Hayao Miyazaki...

Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Castle in the Sky, Lupin III, Warriors of the Wind, Kiki's Delivery Service, My Neighbor Totoro...


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jun 24, 2003)

Well Anime series that I have enjoyed are:

Cowboy Bebop (My absolute favorite)
Trigun
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Martian Sucsessor Nadesico
Rurouni Kenshin
Yu Yu Hakusho

Those are some of my favorite anime series.


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## TiQuinn (Jun 24, 2003)

Anything by Hayao Miyazaki is a must see.

Though I've heard it's good, I just can't bring myself to watch something called "Cowboy Bebop".


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## Sixchan (Jun 24, 2003)

If you like Sci-Fi type stuff like star trek and star wars, I'd recommend _Martian Successor Nadesico_.  It's a great parody of that kind of stuff, as well as a parody of war in general.

Bubblegum Crisis is also very good, and something I'd advise you to take a look at, but avoid Bubblegum Crash at all costs.


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## WizarDru (Jun 24, 2003)

I'll have to go against the grain and say that Rurouni Kenshin left me cold.  The first five episodes became very predictable to me, and I wasn't terribly interested in the story.  From what I hear, the pattern continues on further on down the line, so I didn't really get into it.

Series I would highly recommend:

Trigun:   Alternately funny and tragic, it's a show with a wonderful story and interesting cast.  

Rahxepon: Kind of like Evangelion, if it was a LOT more fun.  Very pretty, too.

Nadeisco: The king of anime that deconstructs anime.  Many in-jokes, extremely silly at times (such that it has a hard time packing a punch when it tries to be serious) and an english dub that actually captures the zany nature of the dialogue.

Vandread: Amusing sexual politics, outstanding Gonzo CGI, and an inspired plot make for one of the most fun series around.  A sexy exterior covers up a suprisingly deep set of characters.  The kind of show I can watch over and over.

ANYTHING BY HAYAO MIYAZAKI: Be it Castle Cagliostro or Spirited Away, each film his hand has touched is gold.  Truely one of the great Sensei's of anime, and a man who understands the difference between childish and child-like.

Ushio and Tora: For some reason it never caught on as big in the states as I expected, the tale of a boy and his captive demon is pretty amusing.

Cowboy Bebop:  The anime you can show non-anime fans, and they'll enjoy.  It's cool, it's hip and it's got some of the best writing in anime.  You'd be doing yourself a disservice to miss it.

Giant Robo: The first of the 'remake' animes of recent years, and still the king.  Giant robots in battle!  Superheroes going toe to toe!  The world in peril from it's greatest asset! A twisty-plot that tricks you left and right!  This is the stuff, baby.

Big O: New School giant robots.  Deep mystery, a noir attitude and fun Fun FUN!  And the sequel's gonna be here soon.

How's that for starters?  You want more?  I got a ton.


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## Arken (Jun 24, 2003)

Samurai X is a recommendation here too.

Or The Slayers(great fun) The most DnDish anime ever probably 

Or of course anything by Hayao Miyazaki


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## Samnell (Jun 24, 2003)

I gotta second Evangelion and RahXephon. If you like one you will like the other...unless you're one of those people who gets infuriated when they see similarities between one series and another and screams "Ripoff!"

There's some deliberate Eva homages in RahXephon (especially in the first ep, though you'd have to have seen all of Eva to catch them all) but goes a very different direction from an outwardly similar situation.  Both have teenage angst, and both have protagonists with parent issues as well as sharing giant robots fighting stuff, but how they go about it is very different.

Be aware that you haven't seen Eva until you've seen the OVAs too. Death & Rebirth and End of Evangelion, in that order. They really help explain a lot of things that went unsaid or hinted at in the series because they ran out of money. If you like ambiguous endings, you may prefer the series ending but if you stick it out through the OVAs you end up with an equally ambiguous ending there. 

There's some argument in Eva fandom about whether or not the OVAs are the same ending as the series or not, sort of "alternate ending" vs. "extended ending". Personally, I think they are but it doesn't become really clear until you watch them back to back or do a second viewing. There's also director's cuts of the last few episodes prior to the final two, which are less vital to understanding the series than the OVAs, but still helpful for the added fifteen minutes or so that you only get glimpses of in the OVAs.

There's supposed to be a movie coming out to expand on RahXephon's ending, but I haven't seen it and don't know if it's even out in Japan yet. The end credits for the last ep of the series include a note that production was set to begin in spring of 2003.


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## WizarDru (Jun 24, 2003)

Arken said:
			
		

> *Or The Slayers(great fun) The most DnDish anime ever probably *




No, that'd be Lodoss Wars, any version.  Heck, the TV series even gave stats.  (as opposed to Dragon Warrior, which gave stats for the characters in the video game at the end of every episode).


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## MarauderX (Jun 24, 2003)

*Gasaraki* isn't too bad compared to the others mentioned here.  It's got some deep plot lines that satisfied me, plus it's got some post-war giant robots to please the masses.

The *Burn Up* series also deserves a mention if you get bored and want something along the lines of sexy police women doing their jobs against adversity.


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## Arken (Jun 24, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *
> 
> No, that'd be Lodoss Wars, any version.  Heck, the TV series even gave stats.  (as opposed to Dragon Warrior, which gave stats for the characters in the video game at the end of every episode).   *




D'oh of course, forgot about that still the recommendation for The Slayers remains.


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## Chun-tzu (Jun 24, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *I'll have to go against the grain and say that Rurouni Kenshin left me cold.  The first five episodes became very predictable to me, and I wasn't terribly interested in the story.  From what I hear, the pattern continues on further on down the line, so I didn't really get into it.*




I think you gave up too early  

I'm not sure what pattern you're talking about, but it's not really that predictable. And it's not the early episodes that fans consider so great (I _do_ understand why those episodes didn't hook you right away), but the later stuff, especially the Kyoto story arc. Cartoon Network is already well into this arc right now, although as I stated above, I find the unedited subtitled version to be a a step up from the dubbed version.

Do I think everyone will like Kenshin? No. But since you recommended Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Nadesico, and Big O, I can't see how you wouldn't like Kenshin!


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## jdavis (Jun 24, 2003)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I think you gave up too early
> 
> ...



 Rurouni Kenshin is wonderful and keeps getting better, it started getting better towards the end of the first season and so far the Kyoto arc is everything I have been told (although the dub for Cho in the last two episodes [39-40] was just horrible). Samurai X trust and betrayal was some of the best anime I have ever seen too. I haven't seen much out there any better than the Kenshin stuff.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Jun 25, 2003)

TiQuinn said:
			
		

> *Though I've heard it's good, I just can't bring myself to watch something called "Cowboy Bebop".   *




Force yourself.  I am by no means an anime junkie, but this show just flat-out RULES.  Any show with people tripping out on mushrooms is fine by me.


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## Chun-tzu (Jun 25, 2003)

TiQuinn said:
			
		

> *Though I've heard it's good, I just can't bring myself to watch something called "Cowboy Bebop".   *




They talk about both cowboys and bebop in a couple episodes, but they're just throwaway lines, so we never get a clear explanation of the show's title (still, that's more than many other anime shows, like Neon Genesis Evangelion).

Spike (the main character) is referred to as a cowboy at times (at least in the movie), whenever people find out he's a bounty hunter. Not sure why bounty hunters are considered "cowboys," maybe it's a Japanese thing, but the context suggests that they mean that he's the "rebel cop" kind of guy, who gets the job done, even if (especially if) it means breaking the rules.

Bebop is the name of Jet's ship, IIRC, but it's really very appropriate for the style of the show.

"BeBop: jazz form of the 1940's and 50's, characterized by fast tempo and complex chord patterns, played by small ensembles with often dizzying instrumental virtuosity."

The fast tempo and the sophisticated but not overly complex stories are very characteristic of the show. It's a great show, the dubbed version is even better than the subtitled, the music and animation are amazing, and it has a really kick ass series finale. It took me a while to get into Bebop, but it's high quality stuff.


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## DerianCypher (Jun 25, 2003)

I'm not a big fan of anime but I do like Hack//Sign. It's a really cool series and has a sort of DnD feel to it.

DC


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## zug_zug (Jun 25, 2003)

Yep I second Bebop. As someone said its anime for non anime afficiandos. Deftly twists the hardboiled dectective/sci-fi adventure/comedic ensemble genres and mixes it into a hip series.

Best points IMHO:
1.Avoids alot of the adolescent angst/oversentimentality prevelent in so much of Japanese anime.

2. Has great writing, plots, and style. (There are a few clunker episodes, but very few)

3. Characters that are multi layered, by turns selfish, noble, base, greedy. 

4. Set in a wonderful setting both familiar and strange.

5. Great music. 

And the movie rocks-interested in the English version. I really like the English voice cast.

But thats just my opinion.


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## AuroraGyps (Jun 25, 2003)

Two of my favorites are Ghost in the Shell (the soundtrack is really good too) and Project A-ko in the original Japanese.  Ghost is a great Cyberpunky flick and A-ko is just SOOOO funny & ridiculous (B-ko is my fav "*A-ko... A-KO!!!!* ").


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## jdavis (Jun 25, 2003)

DerianCypher said:
			
		

> *I'm not a big fan of anime but I do like Hack//Sign. It's a really cool series and has a sort of DnD feel to it.
> 
> DC *



Yea it's the D&D we would all be playing if virtual reality comes around. I didn't care for it at first but I've been hooked by it too (if I only had a Playstation 2 so I could check out the games)


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## Alzrius (Jun 25, 2003)

zug_zug said:
			
		

> *5. Great music. *




Yoko Kanno did the production for the music. Her stuff tends to virtually always be noteworthy.



> *And the movie rocks-interested in the English version. I really like the English voice cast.
> 
> But thats just my opinion. *




This summed up my feelings on the English voice-acting for the movie: http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=694


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## zug_zug (Jun 25, 2003)

I think you make some good points. It is strange that anime  unlike foreign movies are not subtitled. Its now seen as wrong to dub foreign cinema. In that respect, anime is about a decade "behind' movies I guess. Maybe its because anime is percieved by the powers that be that its an adolescent genre.

For me personally, Spike doesnt come across as a playboy. There is something of a sense of anarchy in him, and he can be flippant in the face of authority and danger. But it seems his dark side is just under the surface. Like all the other characters, except maybe for Edward, he isnt really cant be defined in one adjective, there are many sides to his personality-which is a testament to the series IMHO.

Jet does come across as a little whiney however, LOL.


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## Alzrius (Jun 26, 2003)

zug_zug said:
			
		

> *I think you make some good points. It is strange that anime  unlike foreign movies are not subtitled. Its now seen as wrong to dub foreign cinema. In that respect, anime is about a decade "behind' movies I guess. Maybe its because anime is percieved by the powers that be that its an adolescent genre.*




Forgive me for saying this, but what the hell are you talking about???

I'd say that roughly around a good 90% of the anime you can find nowadays has a subtitled version available for retail sale. This is especially true thanks to DVDs. Only a few companies, such as Manga Entertainment, tend to offer anime with no subtitled version/option available. More than any other foreign film, anime comes subtitled often. It is _leading_ other foreign cinema by a decade easily (how many old hong kong films can you find subtitled, for example?).


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## Skade (Jun 26, 2003)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> They talk about both cowboys and bebop in a couple episodes, but they're just throwaway lines, so we never get a clear explanation of the show's title (still, that's more than many other anime shows, like Neon Genesis Evangelion).
> 
> *




The terms cowboy and bebop are "explained" in the commercial breaks, the intro and to a small degree on the back of the first DVD.  You have to pause the disc unless you have really quick eyes, but you an read little snippets of an article about a new style of music built around the new generation, whose life was in the stars.


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## jdavis (Jun 26, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Forgive me for saying this, but what the hell are you talking about???
> 
> I'd say that roughly around a good 90% of the anime you can find nowadays has a subtitled version available for retail sale. This is especially true thanks to DVDs. Only a few companies, such as Manga Entertainment, tend to offer anime with no subtitled version/option available. More than any other foreign film, anime comes subtitled often. It is leading other foreign cinema by a decade easily (how many old hong kong films can you find subtitled, for example?). *



 I have to agree with this, Anime has always been released with subtitled versions and every piece of Anime I have on DVD runs as either dub or subtitled. Even when I started heavily collecting anime in the early 90's there were almost always two versions on video, the dubbed version and the subtitled version, you just got the one you wanted, not having a subtitled verson available was pretty rare. Anime has always been ahead oo the curve in this. Unlike foriegn movies anime has a fairly wide acceptance in America (anime makes as much money in America as it does in Japan now), the dubbed versions are getting better as the voice acting talent involved gets better and companies are willing to put some money into getting the dub right. Early anime dubs were terrible, some were so off they completly changed the meaning of what was going on, but new dubs are much better and some are very good. 

Not being a purist I tend to go with the dub because it's easier to watch that way. The great thing about DVD is that you can watch the Dub and the subtitled versions without having to buy it twice.


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## Sixchan (Jun 26, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> * I have to agree with this, Anime has always been released with subtitled versions and every piece of Anime I have on DVD runs as either dub or subtitled. Even when I started heavily collecting anime in the early 90's there were almost always two versions on video, the dubbed version and the subtitled version, you just got the one you wanted, not having a subtitled verson available was pretty rare. Anime has always been ahead oo the curve in this. Unlike foriegn movies anime has a fairly wide acceptance in America (anime makes as much money in America as it does in Japan now), the dubbed versions are getting better as the voice acting talent involved gets better and companies are willing to put some money into getting the dub right. Early anime dubs were terrible, some were so off they completly changed the meaning of what was going on, but new dubs are much better and some are very good.
> 
> Not being a purist I tend to go with the dub because it's easier to watch that way. The great thing about DVD is that you can watch the Dub and the subtitled versions without having to buy it twice. *




I think he may have been referring to TV.  Most every Oriental film that I've seen on TV lately has been subtitled, rather than dubbed.  The only subtitled animes I've seen on TV were _Overfiend 3_ and _Adventure Duo_ (both are pornos, incidentally).

I prefer the original Japanese myself, because often I just can't stand the voices in dubs (Such as Molly's voice in Sailor Moon, or Tenchi's in Tenchi Muyo).  The biggest exception to this would be Nadesico, which seemed to have better English Voice-acting than the original.  Plus, I can read fast enough to keep up.


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## Cloudgatherer (Jun 27, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *Yea it's the D&D we would all be playing if virtual reality comes around. I didn't care for it at first but I've been hooked by it too (if I only had a Playstation 2 so I could check out the games) *




Got hooked on the series as well so I picked up the games.  The first one was pretty interesting.  The second was just like the first, so less so.  Unfortunately, each $50 game is one forth of the game.  There are 4 games total, you transfer your save between games.  They also aren't very long either.  Since I've got the first 2, I'll pick up the last 2, but I'm disappointed they didn't make it one or two great games instea of four short ones.

Oh, and I'll throw in my votes for Kenshin, Bebop, Trigun, Eva, .hack//sign, InuYasha, Nadesico, Lodoss War, and one no one has mentioned yet, (but I hope I spell it correctly) Fishugiyugi.  Nope, that spelling is wrong, bah, anyone got the correct spelling?  The one with the priestess of Suzaku, the seven celestial warriors (that doesn't give anything away).

Later.


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## jdavis (Jun 27, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I think he may have been referring to TV.  Most every Oriental film that I've seen on TV lately has been subtitled, rather than dubbed.  The only subtitled animes I've seen on TV were Overfiend 3 and Adventure Duo (both are pornos, incidentally).
> 
> I prefer the original Japanese myself, because often I just can't stand the voices in dubs (Such as Molly's voice in Sailor Moon, or Tenchi's in Tenchi Muyo).  The biggest exception to this would be Nadesico, which seemed to have better English Voice-acting than the original.  Plus, I can read fast enough to keep up. *



 Well as far as TV is concerned I don't see subtitles ever getting too popular for any type of show, there is a large portion of the audience in America that would just turn off anything with subtitles regardless of what it was. I have not seen anything on TV that was subtitled in a very long time and that was on channels like HBO then. The average television viewer just doesn't want to read his TV. If Cartoon Network started showing subtitled versions of anime it would flop in weeks, the vast majority of people are casual fans and they don't care about the minor story changes or the better voice acting involved in the original, they want simple entertainment. A subtitled Dragonball Z wouldn't of lasted 10 episodes on Cartoon Network. That's just a matter of economics there. 

What on TV have you seen that was subtitled lately and what was it on? Just curious as to what I'm missing out on.


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## jdavis (Jun 27, 2003)

Cloudgatherer said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Got hooked on the series as well so I picked up the games.  The first one was pretty interesting.  The second was just like the first, so less so.  Unfortunately, each $50 game is one forth of the game.  There are 4 games total, you transfer your save between games.  They also aren't very long either.  Since I've got the first 2, I'll pick up the last 2, but I'm disappointed they didn't make it one or two great games instea of four short ones.
> 
> ...



 Fushigi Yuugi (also called Mysterious Play, or maybe that is the translation?) http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=178
I've heard that was good but I have never seen it.


----------



## zug_zug (Jun 27, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Forgive me for saying this, but what the hell are you talking about???
> 
> I'd say that roughly around a good 90% of the anime you can find nowadays has a subtitled version available for retail sale. This is especially true thanks to DVDs. Only a few companies, such as Manga Entertainment, tend to offer anime with no subtitled version/option available. More than any other foreign film, anime comes subtitled often. It is leading other foreign cinema by a decade easily (how many old hong kong films can you find subtitled, for example?). *




Yea I meant TV. It would be nice to see anime in subtitled versions on TV. But like I said probably given the fact that anime is seen as adolscent or for children in the States and the view(as stated by jdavis)that the general audince have, it probably wont happen. At any rate itd be nice.

As for the decade thing, that was really just a rough timeframe. In the bad old days, things like subtitles for foreign films were give short shrift. The subtitles evolved slowly from the hard to read white to easier to read yellow. Now most bigger theatrical foreign films are subtitled.  But then again its only relatively recently that letterboxing for movies in general has caught on.

Oh yea to change the subject-USA TODAY had a spread today on how networks are embracing adult animation, TNN, CN, etc.


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## Dog Soldier (Jun 27, 2003)

I would recomend.
*Mobile Suit Gundam 0080 - War In The Pocket* I've only seen the Cartoon Network edit but it is good, but short. Only 6 episodes.
*Ruin Explorers* Another short OVA. It's kind of DnDish.
*Berserk* Others have mentioned it. 
*Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade* Not a series or OVA but a movie, look into it you may like it.
*Spriggan* Another movie.


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## Alzrius (Jun 27, 2003)

Cloudgatherer said:
			
		

> *one no one has mentioned yet, (but I hope I spell it correctly) Fishugiyugi.  Nope, that spelling is wrong, bah, anyone got the correct spelling?  The one with the priestess of Suzaku, the seven celestial warriors (that doesn't give anything away).*




*Fushigi Yuugi*. Literally, "The Mysterious Play" this is a romantic adventure of two schoolgirls who fall _into_ a book, and find that they are priestesses of two celestial beings...who are in opposition. The two girls must each find their celestial warriors dedicated to serve and protect them as they find their destiny in this strange new land.


----------



## Uzumaki (Jun 27, 2003)

FY is a case. You either love it or you hate it. It has it's redeeming parts and characters, but in general I don't like it.


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## Enchantress (Jun 28, 2003)

Phew!  I'm not on the internet for one day and look what happens!  Thanx for posting so quickly.  In answer to some of your questions, I like basically any genre, including romance, comedy, action, sci-fi, dark vampiric/horror.  I am looking for something with, like I said, very deep and complex characters and plot lines for the more serious animes, and good humor for the comedies.  I'm definitely more of a fan towards animes with graphic and detailed artwork.  

You also reminded me of some other animes I like/have seen:
Spirited Away
Princess Mononoke
Kiki's Delivery Service
Castle in the Sky.  (I also think that Haiyo Miyazaki is a genious when it comes to anime.)
Oh, My Goddess (the series and the movie)
I started on 3x3 Eyes and really liked that but missed the rest of the show after 2-3 episodes.  Any reviews on that?


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## Anavel Gato (Jun 28, 2003)

I saw a trailer for "Voices of Distant Star" and ADV has been hyping it pretty well.  
"Saiyuki" is a retelling of the Journey West.  
I, too, must express that "Samurai X" (Kenshin) is really good.  And one great thing is you can get Trust and Betrayal on one disc on the Directors Cut.  
Any Gundam UC era.  
"Berserk" is great too. 
"Rahxephon" 
old school "Robotech"
"Jin-Roh" and "Blue Gender" are good one-shot deals...
thats all of can think of right now...


----------



## jdavis (Jun 28, 2003)

Watching Full Metal Panic right now, so far so good. Also picked up the first volume of Samurai Deeper Kyo but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Jun 28, 2003)

Samurai X? What's the deal with that? Is that like Rourinin Kenshin or something in an OVA version? What's the relationship between the two series?


----------



## Alzrius (Jun 28, 2003)

JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> *Samurai X? What's the deal with that? Is that like Rourinin Kenshin or something in an OVA version? What's the relationship between the two series? *




"Samurai X" is the Rurouni Kenshin OVA series. The reason it has such a different name is because the RuroKen (that's its abbreviated name here) TV series is put out by a different company in America than the OVA series is. To avoid a legal battle, the company with the OVA rights had to drastically change the name.

That said, the content of Samurai X is to show Kenshin during the revolution, ten years before he met Kaoru and the rest, and before he had his prohibition on killing. Unlike the TV series, the OVA is very dark and gritty.

It's worth noting that this is the closest the anime of Kenshin ever comes to touching upon the manga arc where Enishi (Tomoe's younger brother) comes back to get revenge on Kenshin and his friends later. That doesn't say much though - the OVA shows the events that lead Enishi down that path, but they don't show anything after the revolution (Enishi comes for revenge in the manga shortly after Shishio's death). The TV series never mentions Enishi at all.


----------



## Chun-tzu (Jun 28, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *It's worth noting that this is the closest the anime of Kenshin ever comes to touching upon the manga arc where Enishi (Tomoe's younger brother) comes back to get revenge on Kenshin and his friends later. That doesn't say much though - the OVA shows the events that lead Enishi down that path, but they don't show anything after the revolution (Enishi comes for revenge in the manga shortly after Shishio's death). The TV series never mentions Enishi at all. *




Enishi shows up in the latest (and probably last) OAV series, Rurouni Kenshin: Seisouhen ("Reflection"), which takes place after the final episode of the TV series.


----------



## Alzrius (Jun 28, 2003)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *Enishi shows up in the latest (and probably last) OAV series, Rurouni Kenshin: Seisouhen ("Reflection"), which takes place after the final episode of the TV series. *




No kidding?? How long has that been out? Is it available in America? Where can I get more information? I'd like to compare it to the manga.


----------



## Chun-tzu (Jun 28, 2003)

Yup, you can get it here in the U.S.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...ref=sr_1_1/103-5026303-8731060?v=glance&s=dvd

If you read some of the user comments, it seems they didn't really follow the manga too closely. This OAV isn't as good as the prequel, but I liked it better than the movie.


----------



## Alzrius (Jun 28, 2003)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *If you read some of the user comments, it seems they didn't really follow the manga too closely. This OAV isn't as good as the prequel, but I liked it better than the movie. *




Wow, looks like they definately didn't follow the manga too closely. It might be worth looking into though. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Leareth (Jun 28, 2003)

I'd recomend you look up Lupin the 3rd: Castle Cagliostro. It's a movie Miyazaki did for an already esablished sieries. I personaly love Lupin and Castle Cagliostro is a good intro. 

I will also recomend Fruits Basket. I love it and I admit it has made me both laugh and cry. It is also very short which sucks but is fairly easy on the pocket book. 

People have already mentioned these but Big 0, Trigun, Slayers and Cowboy Bebob are good. Slayers is very silly and very D&D.

Leareth


----------



## jdavis (Jun 28, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Wow, looks like they definately didn't follow the manga too closely. It might be worth looking into though. Thanks for the tip. *




For reviews on all the Samurai X OVA's and the movie:

Trust and Betrayal 
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=210

Reflection
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=310

The Motion Picture
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=217

I've only seen the Trust and Betrayal Director's cut and it was very very good. Reflection is supposed to be depressing (and sub par storywise) but the movie is supposed to be ok. I'm sure eventually I'll pick them both up. Trust and Betrayal is definatly not one to be missed though.

By the way Full Metal Panic was very good, at one point I managed to spray a mouth full of coke all over the living room, funny stuff and some very good action right off the start.


----------



## Anavel Gato (Jun 28, 2003)

*correction*

I mentioned blue gender, what i meant was Perfect Blue.  It is a crazy, psychological thriller about a j-pop star making a transition to the movies. doesn't sound so great but, a lot happens, it is at least a good rental.  

jdavis said,
"Reflection is supposed to be depressing (and sub par storywise) but the movie is supposed to be ok"

he's right the story is a flashback of the RK series as seen from Kauro's perspective.  It is sad, the animation is good.  And you get to see what happened with the support characters as well as Kenshin and Kauro after the series ended.  I would recommend renting it first.  But Trust and Betrayal are definite must own's.  when I first bought them on VHS I watched them once a month.  There is also a Samurai X--the motion picture, it is really not very good.  the animation is the same as the RK series and the story is alright.  There are some good flashes of Kenshin's past but nothing groundshaking.


----------



## Sixchan (Jun 29, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> * Well as far as TV is concerned I don't see subtitles ever getting too popular for any type of show, there is a large portion of the audience in America that would just turn off anything with subtitles regardless of what it was. I have not seen anything on TV that was subtitled in a very long time and that was on channels like HBO then. The average television viewer just doesn't want to read his TV. If Cartoon Network started showing subtitled versions of anime it would flop in weeks, the vast majority of people are casual fans and they don't care about the minor story changes or the better voice acting involved in the original, they want simple entertainment. A subtitled Dragonball Z wouldn't of lasted 10 episodes on Cartoon Network. That's just a matter of economics there.
> 
> What on TV have you seen that was subtitled lately and what was it on? Just curious as to what I'm missing out on. *




Strange as it may sound, it's been Cartoon Network mostly.  Well, it's been CNX, but that's our version of Adult Swim.  There's been a lot of Chinese, Korean and Japanese films on lately, all subtitled.

Last week, Sci-Fi showed _Ringu_, the original Japanese version of _The Ring_, as well.

I think there was a Bruce Lee film on BBC1 about a month ago that was Subtitled (can't remember the name).


----------



## jdavis (Jun 29, 2003)

I've really wanted to see _Ringu_ I guess I missed Sci Fi showing it. I tried to search the Sci Fi scheduling but they didn't have it, I wonder if they didn't show it in America? 

I'm almost positive that Adult Swim hasn't shown anything subtitled here too. They are just really building up a viewership with Adult Swim, I hope they will give it a shot in the future.


----------



## Uruk (Jun 29, 2003)

If you like vampire/horror (and apparently Ninja Scroll) then I would suggest Vampire Hunter D and Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust.  Vampire Princess Miyu is pretty dark as well.  Trigun and Cowboy Bebop are both good bounty hunter series (that's about where the similarities end).  Haunted Junction is a good inexpensive series that's pretty zany.

How can you not have tons of money for series?  Don't actresses get 10 mill a picture these days?


----------



## Sixchan (Jun 29, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *I've really wanted to see Ringu I guess I missed Sci Fi showing it. I tried to search the Sci Fi scheduling but they didn't have it, I wonder if they didn't show it in America?
> 
> I'm almost positive that Adult Swim hasn't shown anything subtitled here too. They are just really building up a viewership with Adult Swim, I hope they will give it a shot in the future. *




Bear in mind that CNX is a 24/7 channel here, rather than the late-night Cartoon Network that I'm told Adult Swim is.  As such they have time for more programs, and show a film every night (Last night they showed _Dirty Dozen_).  We also get shows about "fun" stuff like skateboarding and "Nu-Metal" (_Trailer Park_), along with ladies in swimsuits (_Sports Illustrated Swimsuit_), cop shows (_The Shield, Boomtown_), and other stuff (A drama called _Kung Fu_).


----------



## Skade (Jun 29, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Bear in mind that CNX is a 24/7 channel here, rather than the late-night Cartoon Network that I'm told Adult Swim is.  As such they have time for more programs, and show a film every night (Last night they showed Dirty Dozen).  We also get shows about "fun" stuff like skateboarding and "Nu-Metal" (Trailer Park), along with ladies in swimsuits (Sports Illustrated Swimsuit), cop shows (The Shield, Boomtown), and other stuff (A drama called Kung Fu). *




I just looked over the website, unfortunatly I did not see a listing of what anime they show.  'Course, I can't get it here in the States, but it would be cool.  I had heard about a year ago (in New Type maybe) that ADV was considering an all anime network.  I wonder if CNX is it?  I did not see the parent company on the site.


----------



## Sixchan (Jun 29, 2003)

Skade said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I just looked over the website, unfortunatly I did not see a listing of what anime they show.  'Course, I can't get it here in the States, but it would be cool.  I had heard about a year ago (in New Type maybe) that ADV was considering an all anime network.  I wonder if CNX is it?  I did not see the parent company on the site. *




Well, it's made by Cartoon Network (Cartoon Network eXtreme, or something silly like that), so I wouldn't know about an ADV anime network (On second though, I did hear about an Anime Network a few months ago, but in the USA, not the UK).

It's not all anime though.   Aside from the live action stuff mentioned above, we get things like _Justice League_ and _Johhny Quest_.


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## Alzrius (Jun 30, 2003)

By the way, Sixchan, love the new avatar! Black Lady makes evil look so good!


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## Enchantress (Jun 30, 2003)

Uruk said:
			
		

> *If you like vampire/horror (and apparently Ninja Scroll) then I would suggest Vampire Hunter D and Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust.  Vampire Princess Miyu is pretty dark as well.  Trigun and Cowboy Bebop are both good bounty hunter series (that's about where the similarities end).  Haunted Junction is a good inexpensive series that's pretty zany.
> 
> How can you not have tons of money for series?  Don't actresses get 10 mill a picture these days?  *




That reminds me, I have seen Vampire Princess Miyu and Vampire Hunter D, though I have yet to see Bloodlust.  I really enjoyed both and was extremely impressed with the artwork in both.

And, uhhh...Not that I'm not flattered that you think I'm an actress, but what made you think I was?


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## jdavis (Jun 30, 2003)

Skade said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I just looked over the website, unfortunatly I did not see a listing of what anime they show.  'Course, I can't get it here in the States, but it would be cool.  I had heard about a year ago (in New Type maybe) that ADV was considering an all anime network.  I wonder if CNX is it?  I did not see the parent company on the site. *



The Anime Network: http://www.theanimenetwork.com/

ADV has nothing to do with Cartoon Network (I wish they did, we could get some better Adult Swim anime that way). Adult Swim is is just 3 hours a night Monday through Thursday and 4 hours on Sunday; it is very limited (anime is 2 hours a night on weekdays and 1 hour on Sundays). http://www.adultswim.com/  I love Adult Swim but it is very very limited (how many times can you watch the same episode of Futurama over and over again?). 

Toonami shows anime too: http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/toonami/index.html 
and they show .hack/sign and some of the other anime (like G Gunadam) on Saturday nights. 

CNX sounds very neat. It's a shame we don't have anything like it over here.


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## WizarDru (Jun 30, 2003)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *I think you gave up too early
> 
> I'm not sure what pattern you're talking about, but it's not really that predictable. And it's not the early episodes that fans consider so great (I _do_ understand why those episodes didn't hook you right away), but the later stuff, especially the Kyoto story arc. Cartoon Network is already well into this arc right now, although as I stated above, I find the unedited subtitled version to be a a step up from the dubbed version.
> 
> Do I think everyone will like Kenshin? No. But since you recommended Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Nadesico, and Big O, I can't see how you wouldn't like Kenshin! *




Fair enough.  Since you, Jdavis and Scorch keep singing it's praises, I'll give it another try.  Usually, a show hooks me pretty quickly, and Kenshin didn't.


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## Sixchan (Jun 30, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *The Anime Network: http://www.theanimenetwork.com/
> 
> ADV has nothing to do with Cartoon Network (I wish they did, we could get some better Adult Swim anime that way). Adult Swim is is just 3 hours a night Monday through Thursday and 4 hours on Sunday; it is very limited (anime is 2 hours a night on weekdays and 1 hour on Sundays). http://www.adultswim.com/  I love Adult Swim but it is very very limited (how many times can you watch the same episode of Futurama over and over again?).
> 
> ...




Cartoons are also spread around here (perhaps more so than America).  We get Futurama on Sky One (sattelite + cable) and Channel 4 (network), for example, and Pokemon, Zoids, Yu-Gi-Oh are on Sky One and ITV (network).  Nadesico, Evanglion, and Bubblegum crisis were all shown on Sci-Fi (Why oh why did they take away Anime night? *cries*). Sailor Moon and Jackie Chan Adventures are both shown on Fox Kids (Sailor Moon on ITV as well), along with the unforgettable Dungeons & Dragons.  Then there's the Disney Channels (no Anime there, though).

While CNX sounds cool, there is the problem that all the stuff that we get, you get months before us.  I'd love to see .hack/sign, and a lot of the other stuff you get, but I'm not likely to see it until Autumn at the earliest. 

Out of curiosity, do you get Boomerang?  It's the Cartoon Network channel that shows old shows like Scooby Doo and Hong Kong Phooey.


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## WizarDru (Jun 30, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *While CNX sounds cool, there is the problem that all the stuff that we get, you get months before us.  I'd love to see .hack/sign, and a lot of the other stuff you get, but I'm not likely to see it until Autumn at the earliest.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you get Boomerang?  It's the Cartoon Network channel that shows old shows like Scooby Doo and Hong Kong Phooey. *




I don't get it, but it is available in the US.  They split it out of Cartoon Network a couple of years ago, as anime and more modern stuff started taking over.

And believe me, I don't think I could stand waiting the 6+ months for some of the stuff you guys have to wait for.  It would drive me batty.


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## thatdarncat (Jun 30, 2003)

Consider this another vote for Rahxephon 

Also, I just picked up Spirited Away for the kids at Seri-chan's work. Honest, it's for them... ummm for this afternoon at least  Must go set up TV


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## jdavis (Jun 30, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Cartoons are also spread around here (perhaps more so than America).  We get Futurama on Sky One (sattelite + cable) and Channel 4 (network), for example, and Pokemon, Zoids, Yu-Gi-Oh are on Sky One and ITV (network).  Nadesico, Evanglion, and Bubblegum crisis were all shown on Sci-Fi (Why oh why did they take away Anime night? *cries*). Sailor Moon and Jackie Chan Adventures are both shown on Fox Kids (Sailor Moon on ITV as well), along with the unforgettable Dungeons & Dragons.  Then there's the Disney Channels (no Anime there, though).
> 
> ...



This is Western Kentucky, I'm happy to have cable at all. I'd love to have Boomerang (big Jonny Quest fan) but it's not offered and I don't have the money to get a dish. I haven't seen Anime on Sci Fi in several years and then it was 4 or 5 shows repeated over and over again on Saturday mornings, they did have a Anime week once a year a long time ago, but how many times could you sit thorugh Roujin Z, Iria, Galaxy Express 999, Casshan Robot Hunter and Fatal Fury: The Motion Picture? Which was what they showed pretty much every time (OK they did have Akira on several times too). Anime is pretty hard to come by on basic cable in America.


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## Enchantress (Jul 1, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Cartoons are also spread around here (perhaps more so than America).  We get Futurama on Sky One (sattelite + cable) and Channel 4 (network), for example, and Pokemon, Zoids, Yu-Gi-Oh are on Sky One and ITV (network).  Nadesico, Evanglion, and Bubblegum crisis were all shown on Sci-Fi (Why oh why did they take away Anime night? *cries*). Sailor Moon and Jackie Chan Adventures are both shown on Fox Kids (Sailor Moon on ITV as well), along with the unforgettable Dungeons & Dragons.  Then there's the Disney Channels (no Anime there, though).*




I have seen all of these shows except for Sky One and Evanglion, and would things like Jackie Chan Adventures and Futurama count as anime?  If so, that REALLY makes my list of animes that I've seen longer.


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## Alzrius (Jul 1, 2003)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *would things like Jackie Chan Adventures and Futurama count as anime?  If so, that REALLY makes my list of animes that I've seen longer. *




In a word - no. Those are animated shows, but they are produced at the behest of American corporations, for consumptions by Americans (I may be oversimplifying where it gets shown, but you understand what I mean). Neither of those shows are "anime" in the sense we use the word (that "anime" is animation made in/by Japan, for consumption by Japanese people primarily).

I know that someone is going to disagree with me here, so before doing so, please read this article, which is very informative on the subject.


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## WizarDru (Jul 1, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *I know that someone is going to disagree with me here, so before doing so, please read this article, which is very informative on the subject. *




While I'm coming from the old school, before the terms anime or 'japanimation' were used, I tend to think that these days, on both sides of the atlantic, the article is true.  Twenty years ago, when I was paying $35 for a VHS laser-disc bootleg of "Castle of Cagliostro" *sans subtitles or dubbing* it was not.  Even in the animation industries, anime was just 'japlish' for animation, including Disney and the Fleischers.  

But now that anime has finally found it's footing in the US market, it's become like a mirror staring at another mirror, with the image echoing into infinity.  Personally, I'm a little worried when anime fans starting getting a quite as exclusionary as the anime nation article seems to suggest they should be.  Maybe I'm getting old, but I used to enjoy Johnny Quest and Captain Harlock equally, but for different reasons.  There's sort of an underlying sentiment that anime should be put in a little box, and it shouldn't get out of that box.

Mind you, I don't have a problem with the use of the word as they describe in the article...just the sort of implication that if it isn't anime, it's not that good.  I mean, clearly, it's not who makes it, but who it's made for that's the important part.  Otherwise, the Simpsons would be Korea's most popular cartoon, and "Santa Claus is coming to Town" would be considered anime.  But the lines blur quite a bit, and I think worrying too much about whether it's 'officially' anime or not is probably silly.


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 1, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *This is Western Kentucky, I'm happy to have cable at all. I'd love to have Boomerang (big Jonny Quest fan) but it's not offered and I don't have the money to get a dish. I haven't seen Anime on Sci Fi in several years and then it was 4 or 5 shows repeated over and over again on Saturday mornings, they did have a Anime week once a year a long time ago, but how many times could you sit thorugh Roujin Z, Iria, Galaxy Express 999, Casshan Robot Hunter and Fatal Fury: The Motion Picture? Which was what they showed pretty much every time (OK they did have Akira on several times too). Anime is pretty hard to come by on basic cable in America. *




Probably more than a few times, since none of them have ever been shown (as far as I can tell) over here.



> _Originally poted by Enchantress_
> *I have seen all of these shows except for Sky One and Evanglion, and would things like Jackie Chan Adventures and Futurama count as anime? If so, that REALLY makes my list of animes that I've seen longer.*




I'd be surprised if you had seen a show called Sky One, since it's a television channel. 
No, Futurama and the like aren't anime, but I was more referring to the fact that Futurama is shown on Adult Swim/Cartoon Network in the States, whereas it's on a different channel here (Sky One for cable and sattelite, Channel 4 for network).



> _Originally posted by Alzrius_
> *I know that someone is going to disagree with me here, so before doing so, please read this article, which is very informative on the subject.*




I wouldn't call it informative so much as a developed opinion.  IMO, however, Anime and Manga are just terms to define a style of art/animation, the same as impressionism or expressionism.  Take Megatokyo, for instance.  It's not produced by a Japanese person (Fred Gallagher is American), and it's not aimed at Japanese people (it's a web comic, so it's aimed at everyone), but given it's style (some strips now are even in vertical 4-koma Japanese format), I'd still call it an online Manga.  If it was made into an animated format, I'd call it an Anime.Going by AnimeNation's criteria, if Scooby Doo had been made by a Japanese company, and wass aimed at Japanese people, it'd be an Anime.  I think that no matter where it was made, or who it was aimed at, I could never call something with the art style of Scooby Doo "Anime".

To me, Anime is a cartoon medium drawn in a style used mainly in Japan.


----------



## Uruk (Jul 1, 2003)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *
> And, uhhh...Not that I'm not flattered that you think I'm an actress, but what made you think I was? *




I glanced at your profile and mixed up your interests with your occupation.  My wife majored in creative writing (poetry) though so I know the same sentiment unfortunately remains.  (though we always hope otherwise)


----------



## jdavis (Jul 2, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Probably more than a few times, since none of them have ever been shown (as far as I can tell) over here.
> 
> *



 Trust me you got the better end of the stick with 







> Nadesico, Evanglion, and Bubblegum crisis were all shown on Sci-Fi



Roujin Z is definatly odd (I hated it but many people liked it): http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/reviews/display.php?id=271
Galaxy Express 999 is about a space train (yes a "space" train) set in the Captain Harlock Universe. Being as they never showed any of the other anime from this Universe it was quite confusing. It was put out in 1981 and looks it too. They did show some really good anime(they also showed Green Legend Ran, Project A-KO and 8 Man After) but they just showed the same anime over and over again week after week and the anime week every year was just them showing last years anime week over again, they never tried to get anything new. These were all OVA's or movies, they had about 20 hours worth of anime which they recycled for several years. I havent seen any anime on Sci Fi at all for at least 4 years now.


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## Sixchan (Jul 2, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> * Trust me you got the better end of the stick with
> Roujin Z is definatly odd (I hated it but many people liked it): http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/reviews/display.php?id=271
> Galaxy Express 999 is about a space train (yes a "space" train) set in the Captain Harlock Universe. Being as they never showed any of the other anime from this Universe it was quite confusing. It was put out in 1981 and looks it too. They did show some really good anime(they also showed Green Legend Ran, Project A-KO and 8 Man After) but they just showed the same anime over and over again week after week and the anime week every year was just them showing last years anime week over again, they never tried to get anything new. These were all OVA's or movies, they had about 20 hours worth of anime which they recycled for several years. I havent seen any anime on Sci Fi at all for at least 4 years now. *




Point taken.  But Project A-KO sounds good from what I've heard of it.  I think I saw it(can't remember if it was the DVD or not though) in the local comic shop, and I might buy it.


----------



## Djeta Thernadier (Jul 2, 2003)

The Vision of Escaflowne is very cool, gorgeous and a cool sci-fi fantasy story.

I haven't seen it in a while, but I'd imagine it's available online and in most anime shops.

~Sheri


----------



## jdavis (Jul 3, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Point taken.  But Project A-KO sounds good from what I've heard of it.  I think I saw it(can't remember if it was the DVD or not though) in the local comic shop, and I might buy it. *



There is three or four versions of it, they take the same characters and re-imagine them in different settings. They are all from the late'80s and were fairly popular so they should be out there.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=61

Project A-ko (movie)
Project A-ko 3: Cinderella Rhapsody (OAV)
Project A-Ko 4: Final (OAV)
Project A-Ko: The Plot of the Daitokuji Corporation (OAV)
Project A-Ko: Vs (OAV)
(Ok so there were 5 versions)


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 3, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *I wouldn't call it informative so much as a developed opinion.*




Point taken, but I still find it informative in that it clearly lays out a good way of expressing the sentiment enough that it can be debated. 

Note that I'm not saying I agree with him, since I see some validity in your point below...



> *IMO, however, Anime and Manga are just terms to define a style of art/animation, the same as impressionism or expressionism.  Take Megatokyo, for instance.  It's not produced by a Japanese person (Fred Gallagher is American), and it's not aimed at Japanese people (it's a web comic, so it's aimed at everyone), but given it's style (some strips now are even in vertical 4-koma Japanese format), I'd still call it an online Manga.*




This is a valid point, in that there are manga-style comics around. The problem though is that this line blurs all too easily. Fred Perry's _Gold Digger_ comic is done in manga-style now, but what about when it first started (it looked much different then)? What about the webcomic Sparkling Generation Valkyrie Yuuki, or even just Irritability? "Manga" may have a style to it, but saying that style is distinctive enough that it can be reproduced to the effect that anyone can "draw manga-style comics" is a bold statement to make.



> *If it was made into an animated format, I'd call it an Anime. Going by AnimeNation's criteria, if Scooby Doo had been made by a Japanese company, and wass aimed at Japanese people, it'd be an Anime.  I think that no matter where it was made, or who it was aimed at, I could never call something with the art style of Scooby Doo "Anime".*




You don't seem to take into account that such a show would have had a vastly different style of art and different plot progression if it had been made in Japan for domestic release there. It would have been a Scooby Doo anime. You can't just change the origin and release and not realize that would change the product itself also.



> *To me, Anime is a cartoon medium drawn in a style used mainly in Japan. *




That just brings up the same problem though. There is no truly over-arching "style" in anime used in Japan...even moreso than manga. _Crayon Shin-chan_ looks absolutely nothing like _Gundam Wing_, but both are undeniably anime.


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 3, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> 
> This is a valid point, in that there are manga-style comics around. The problem though is that this line blurs all too easily. Fred Perry's Gold Digger comic is done in manga-style now, but what about when it first started (it looked much different then)?*



I've never read it, but going from your description I'd say it's a Manga now, but it wasn't at the start. *shrugs*



> *What about the webcomic Sparkling Generation Valkyrie Yuuki,*



Looking at the first few pages, it looks like a manga to me.



> *or even just Irritability?*



*picks a few strips at random* Yep, looks like Manga.




> *"Manga" may have a style to it, but saying that style is distinctive enough that it can be reproduced to the effect that anyone can "draw manga-style comics" is a bold statement to make.*




I'm not saying that Anyone can "draw manga-style comics".  I can't draw anything that doesn't involve a lot of straight lines.  I know someone who can't even do that.  There'll be plenty of Japanese people who can't draw, either.  But _some_ Americans, _some_ Britons, _some_ Spaniards, some whoevers can draw in that style, and just because of where they live, it isn't Manga?



> *You don't seem to take into account that such a show would have had a vastly different style of art and different plot progression if it had been made in Japan for domestic release there. It would have been a Scooby Doo anime. You can't just change the origin and release and not realize that would change the product itself also.*



They could have been trying to introduce American styles into the Japanese market.  The product might change, but the Art Style can stay the same.




> *That just brings up the same problem though. There is no truly over-arching "style" in anime used in Japan...even moreso than manga. Crayon Shin-chan looks absolutely nothing like Gundam Wing, but both are undeniably anime. *




But you know, don't you?  When you see an Anime, you can say "That's Anime", even if it looks different from other ones you've seen.  You can tell.  Both are undeniably Anime, not because of where they are made, or who made them, it's something else, even if it _isn't_ the style, that lets you know, and that can be created by anyone with the talent, and that talent can't possibly exist _only_ in Japan, can it?


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 3, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *I'm not saying that Anyone can "draw manga-style comics".  I can't draw anything that doesn't involve a lot of straight lines.  I know someone who can't even do that.  There'll be plenty of Japanese people who can't draw, either.  But some Americans, some Britons, some Spaniards, some whoevers can draw in that style, and just because of where they live, it isn't Manga?*




I didn't make my point clear; I didn't mean "anyone" in that sense of anyone who can lift a pencil - what I meant is, when you say "can draw in that style", what style is that? Just calling it "manga" isn't enough, it needs to be broken down exactly what that style is like.



> *They could have been trying to introduce American styles into the Japanese market.  The product might change, but the Art Style can stay the same.*




Could have but wouldn't. This part of the debate is quickly becoming too abstract to talk about - we can't debate the specifics of an example that didn't actually happen because we don't know how it would have turned out.



> *But you know, don't you?  When you see an Anime, you can say "That's Anime", even if it looks different from other ones you've seen.  You can tell.  Both are undeniably Anime, not because of where they are made, or who made them, it's something else, even if it isn't the style, that lets you know, and that can be created by anyone with the talent, and that talent can't possibly exist only in Japan, can it? *




Actually, that isn't always true. I know some people who would have dismissed some of the works I listed above as being real "manga". A similar style perhaps, but not the same.

The ultimate question here is whether or not anime/manga is "merely" a technical style of drawing/animation, or if there is something more fundamental to it that is only found in the Japanese creations.

My personal belief is that currently, the two are mixed together (style and source), simply due to the fact that no other country takes these art forms as seriously as they are in Japan. America still places too much in the idea that the only true art is done for art's sake, and does not appeal to the masses. Hence, anime and manga, which are commercial almost my definition, since they're entertainment, have simply never been able to be created outside of Japan due to environment.

Of course, that is finally beginning to change now, so the definition is having to be rewritten, and that's always difficult.


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 3, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *Actually, that isn't always true. I know some people who would have dismissed some of the works I listed above as being real "manga". A similar style perhaps, but not the same.*




Ah, but if those comics were written and Japanese, and the author happened to live in Japan (thus made in Japan and aimed at Japanese people), _then_ would they be Manga? As far as I can tell, it would fit Animenation's criteria.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 3, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *Ah, but if those comics were written and Japanese, and the author happened to live in Japan (thus made in Japan and aimed at Japanese people), then would they be Manga? As far as I can tell, it would fit Animenation's criteria. *




Well, we aren't discussing Animenation's criteria so much as the definition of "anime" and "manga" in general, but I'll play along anyway.

In essence, yes, anything produced in Japan for domestic consumption that is a comic is manga. As I said above, that is because there are currently two clashing ways of defining what manga and anime are - one is the above definition (anything made there for local release), and the other is that its a distinct style that can be reproduced and done abroad, nothing inherently Japanese about it.

There are lots of different comics produced in Japan, many of which have no visual similarity, and no one says they aren't manga. Likewise, many comics of a divergant artistic style are made in America, and no one says they are manga. So clearly location does have some major role in the definition. At the same time, there are so-called "manga" produced in America (such as Marvel's Mangaverse, which includes artists such as Benn Dunn). It is still unclear what the definition of the term is, and probably won't be any clearer for a long while to come.


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 3, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, we aren't discussing Animenation's criteria so much as the definition of "anime" and "manga" in general, but I'll play along anyway.
> 
> ...




Perhaps, then, all that is required to be Manga is to *call* it "Manga"?  Within reason, of course.

Or alternatively, when dealing with Out Of Japan "Manga", any comic in which Japanese culture (this includes all aspects, from art to television) played a significant part in influencing is "Manga"?

Or a combination, where the author if makes reference to "manga-style" and/or Japanese culture in regards to the comic, then it is Manga?


*shrugs* I dunno, but the last one sounds about right to me.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 4, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *Perhaps, then, all that is required to be Manga is to call it "Manga"?  Within reason, of course.*




Which brings us back to square one. The limits of "within reason" are different for everyone, so a definition becomes necessary...and we start all over again.



> *Or alternatively, when dealing with Out Of Japan "Manga", any comic in which Japanese culture (this includes all aspects, from art to television) played a significant part in influencing is "Manga"?
> 
> Or a combination, where the author if makes reference to "manga-style" and/or Japanese culture in regards to the comic, then it is Manga?*




This has its own problems though. Could a particular style of art by itself just be called distinctive to Japanese culture? Especially when nothing else even suggests a Japanese basis for anything in the comic? You said that the webcomic Irritability, that I linked to above, was a manga...how much reference to anything Japan-related does that have?



> **shrugs* I dunno, but the last one sounds about right to me. *




It's still a very loose definition though, and leaves plenty of room for arguement over whether certain comics would be "manga" or not.

I'm not saying all this to be contrary, I'm just pointing out that so far, we don't have any particular set definition for what these terms actually mean. It's currently, as you noted, more along the lines of "you know it when you see it".


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 4, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Which brings us back to square one. The limits of "within reason" are different for everyone, so a definition becomes necessary...and we start all over again.*




When I said "Within reason", I was more talking along the lines of taking a carrot and calling it manga.



> *This has its own problems though. Could a particular style of art by itself just be called distinctive to Japanese culture? Especially when nothing else even suggests a Japanese basis for anything in the comic? You said that the webcomic Irritability, that I linked to above, was a manga...how much reference to anything Japan-related does that have?*




Hmm...okay, poor wording on my part.  Does the author call it Manga?  If so, it is, if not, it isn't.




> *It's still a very loose definition though, and leaves plenty of room for arguement over whether certain comics would be "manga" or not.
> 
> I'm not saying all this to be contrary, I'm just pointing out that so far, we don't have any particular set definition for what these terms actually mean. It's currently, as you noted, more along the lines of "you know it when you see it". *




Well, if we go with my (re-worded) definition, then there's no real room for argument.


Perhaps the main problem here is the very fact that we're trying to define a very abstract concept?


----------



## frankthedm (Jul 4, 2003)

Why ask Why?
Just watch UY!

Urusei Yatsura is a wonderful anime from the Golden age of anime. The main fansite is http://www.furinkan.com/tomobiki/uy/

Released by
www.animeigo.com
They have some great deals on the DVD box sets and  
VHS tapes

The manga was released By VIZ. But since they don't have the anime rights, they stopped 1/3 way through. They MIGHT restart now that the Ranma flagship has sailed.

A fan group is picking up the slack http://www.projectilm.com/


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## Alzrius (Jul 4, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *When I said "Within reason", I was more talking along the lines of taking a carrot and calling it manga.*




Given that I took a different view of what you said, this is a perfect example of how "within reason" is too subjective.



> *Hmm...okay, poor wording on my part.  Does the author call it Manga?  If so, it is, if not, it isn't.
> 
> Well, if we go with my (re-worded) definition, then there's no real room for argument.*




Sure there is. That completely and utterly removes any consideration of artistic style and location from the picture. By that reasoning, Jolly R. Blackburn could say that _Knights of the Dinner Table_ is a manga, and it would be.



> *Perhaps the main problem here is the very fact that we're trying to define a very abstract concept? *




Most definately.


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 4, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Given that I took a different view of what you said, this is a perfect example of how "within reason" is too subjective.*








> *Sure there is. That completely and utterly removes any consideration of artistic style and location from the picture. By that reasoning, Jolly R. Blackburn could say that Knights of the Dinner Table is a manga, and it would be.*




If all it takes for _Knights of the Dinner Table_ to be manga is for Jolly R. Blackburn to say it is, than that means if he says it is, it is.  And if it is, then you can't argue that it isn't.

Besides, what does artistic style have to do with anything?  _Crayon Shin Chan_ and _Gundam Wing_ don't have a common artistic style, remember?  



> *Most definately. *




Do you think we should just give up, then?


----------



## s/LaSH (Jul 4, 2003)

Might not be quite what the doctor ordered, but what about The Animatrix? One DVD of high-quality stuff. As to whether it counts as anime, well, _bits_ of it come from different places, some of which are in Japan, so I reckon that counts.

Anybody else noticing a trend, by the by, of American people coming up with something and giving the Japanese lots of money to make it? Lots more money than the Japanese would, at any rate. Animatrix and the in-some-stage-I-don't-know Lady Death movie, for example.


----------



## jdavis (Jul 5, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *Watching Full Metal Panic right now, so far so good. Also picked up the first volume of Samurai Deeper Kyo but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. *



Just to update: Samurai Deeper Kyo is great, I was highly impressed.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1133

http://www.samuraideeperkyo.us/nopopup.html


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 5, 2003)

Sixchan said:
			
		

> *If all it takes for Knights of the Dinner Table to be manga is for Jolly R. Blackburn to say it is, than that means if he says it is, it is.  And if it is, then you can't argue that it isn't.*




Part of the reason we're having this discussion though is that you _can_ argue with that. Most people agree that there are defining terms for what a "manga style" comic is. The problem is no one can concretely lay down what those terms are without a valid challenge being laid to them.



> *Besides, what does artistic style have to do with anything?  Crayon Shin Chan and Gundam Wing don't have a common artistic style, remember?  *




That's exactly the point. Style does have something to do with it, despite the fact that there doesn't seem to be a universality of it among anime and manga from Japan.



> *Do you think we should just give up, then? *




Yeah. This is interesting, but we aren't getting any closer to actually getting a working definition than we were when we began this. It was fun though.


----------



## jdavis (Jul 5, 2003)

Something I just read over at animation insider on CNX:http://animationinsider.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=1609

CNX, the United Kingdom based Turner network, will cease operations in September. According to an announcement made today the network will be replaced by “Toonami” – a network aimed at a young teen audience by including programming like X-Men Evolution. A representative at Turner Entertainment defended the decision by calling the adult market “crowded and competitive." 

Earlier, Animation Insider reported that CNX was being eyed for expansion to the United States. No details have been provided regarding the future of such an endeavor or if a US based “Toonami” network is currently in the works. 

Keeping checking Animation Insider for the latest on this breaking story. 

Special thanks to LFV for bringing this story to our attention.


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## Enchantress2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Uruk said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I glanced at your profile and mixed up your interests with your occupation.  My wife majored in creative writing (poetry) though so I know the same sentiment unfortunately remains.  (though we always hope otherwise) *




Again, very flattered.  

No one freak out!  It's still just plain ol' Enchantress, but I had to go on a trip and I can't bring my computer with me.  So for the next 6 weeks I shall be Enchantress2.

I am also reminded that I have seen the Animatrix and was very impressed.  And even though it isn't an anime, the show x-men evolution is a favorite of mine.  The plot and story isn't afraid to delve into some of the darker subjects that only anime seems to go.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 7, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *No one freak out!  It's still just plain ol' Enchantress, but I had to go on a trip and I can't bring my computer with me.  So for the next 6 weeks I shall be Enchantress2.*




I'm slightly confused. You obviously have some sort of computer access, hence why you're here now. Why can't you just use your old name? There isn't anything computer-specific with registering here at EN World; whether its a home computer or one in an internet cafe, your existing name should be fine, shouldn't it?


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm slightly confused. You obviously have some sort of computer access, hence why you're here now. Why can't you just use your old name? There isn't anything computer-specific with registering here at EN World; whether its a home computer or one in an internet cafe, your existing name should be fine, shouldn't it?  *




Really?  I thought that since I am using a different computer I needed to re-register.  And since my home computer already has me registered as Enchantress, I can't register again on a different computer under the same name.

Did ya catch all that?  I dunno, maybe I'm just making this whole thing more complicated than it has to be.


----------



## Chun-tzu (Jul 7, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Really?  I thought that since I am using a different computer I needed to re-register.  And since my home computer already has me registered as Enchantress, I can't register again on a different computer under the same name.
> 
> Did ya catch all that?  I dunno, maybe I'm just making this whole thing more complicated than it has to be. *




It took me a while to figure out how to login from my folks' computer. If you click on the User CP, it'll prompt you for your name and password, so that's how I usually do it.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 7, 2003)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It took me a while to figure out how to login from my folks' computer. If you click on the User CP, it'll prompt you for your name and password, so that's how I usually do it. *




Oh, well, too late now.


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 8, 2003)

Either that or type in your login and password at the bottom of the fora's front page.


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## Enchantress2 (Jul 8, 2003)

You guys are just way too smart for me.


----------



## Skade (Jul 9, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *You guys are just way too smart for me.  *




I would not worry.  The login is not in the most common spot I've seen.  

Have any of ya'll watched the Excel Saga, which has nothing to do with the spreadsheet program?  It refers to itself as experimental anime and is quite odd.  I don't know that I could even attempt to explain it.  basically its about this girl, Excel, who is insane, and works for Ilpallazzo, who wants to conquer the world, but thinks that would be complex, so he settles for an unnamed Asian city.  The animation is filled with little cultural and anime references, as well as very strange jokes.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 9, 2003)

I've seen a bunch of Excel. The entire purpose of that anime is to spoof everything it possibly can. It takes nothing seriously, not even itself (since the plot of the first episode is to kill the man who created the series), and is very humorous in doing so.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 10, 2003)

Good news!  I just went to the Blockbuster Video near here and found out that they carry Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust.  The video strores where I normally live don't carry it, and I have really been wanting to see it.


----------



## Skade (Jul 11, 2003)

OK, so what anime would you suggest NOT buying?

I'd suggest avoiding Dual: The Parralell Universe.  I might have the subtitle wrong, but it's close.  The anime follows the story of a boy, ripped from his own world into a parralell universe where he is the first boy (rather than girl) capable of piloting a mech in a war against an aggressor.  Simple enough, except that it seems that the character designs and personalities are directly ripped off from Neon Genesis Evangelion.  Even the mechs are in fact living creatures crafted from alien technology, though are uniformly female.  Which brings up the main character being a boy again, as he apparently has to dress in drag so no one will know men can pilot these mechs.  Everything feels like a bad copy of Evangelion, and this is coming from someone who is NOT a fan of that show.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 11, 2003)

Skade said:
			
		

> *I'd suggest avoiding Dual: The Parralell Universe.  I might have the subtitle wrong, but it's close.  The anime follows the story of a boy, ripped from his own world into a parralell universe where he is the first boy (rather than girl) capable of piloting a mech in a war against an aggressor.  Simple enough, except that it seems that the character designs and personalities are directly ripped off from Neon Genesis Evangelion.  Even the mechs are in fact living creatures crafted from alien technology, though are uniformly female.  Which brings up the main character being a boy again, as he apparently has to dress in drag so no one will know men can pilot these mechs.  Everything feels like a bad copy of Evangelion, and this is coming from someone who is NOT a fan of that show. *




I liked Dual.

The fact that it had elements derived from Evangelion is undeniable, but that's nothing that you won't see elsewhere (just look at Rah Xephon, the quintessential "Eva rip-off", which is still damn good).

Dual, unlike Eva, doesn't take itself so seriously. Eva is meant to be deep and provoke thought, to speak to us personally on multiple levels. Dual is just about a fun sci-fi romp. It invites you to just enjoy the action and romantic humor that it displays. Dual is, in some ways, the anti-Evangelion, simply because it invites you to just smile and laugh at it, something inappropriate for the majority of Eva (which did have its humor scenes).


----------



## Skade (Jul 11, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I liked Dual.
> 
> ...




I haven't seen Rah Xephon, knew it was a mech anime but that's about all.  I agree that Dual certainly is not serious, and should not take itself as such.  My problem lay in that it seemed to at first, building up a serious story, and making so that there would be deep thought provoking teen angsty goodness, and then relies on a kid dressed in drag piloting a mech with high heels to make the show work.  I would probably not have had an issue with it if not for the characters being so similar.  The kid is very much like Shinji, with his emotional hangups, and ineffectiveness under normal circumstances.  The girl who is actually one of teh aliens that the mechs are derived from is practically Rei, and the bossy little girl is very Asuka.  They are archtypes used in other anime though, so I suppose the intention was to purposefully use anime formulas all stuck together and run with it?  

Maybe if I saw a few more episodes I'd change my mind.  The four I saw just didn't do it for me.  Of course I really did not like Noir either, and everyone I know loved it.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 11, 2003)

Skade said:
			
		

> *I haven't seen Rah Xephon, knew it was a mech anime but that's about all.*




I only saw the first episode, but it failed to impress me - Dual, in my mind, started out not being quite so much in the vein of Eva. RahXephon couldn't even be that. A much better look at the question of RahXephon versus Evangelion can be found here: Is RahXephon an Evangelion Rip Off?.



> *I agree that Dual certainly is not serious, and should not take itself as such.  My problem lay in that it seemed to at first, building up a serious story, and making so that there would be deep thought provoking teen angsty goodness, and then relies on a kid dressed in drag piloting a mech with high heels to make the show work.*




Well, that explains why you felt so disappointed. I, in turn, never felt that the anime promised to be a serious angst-fest the way Evangelion was. While the first episode is certainly mysterious, with Kazuki seeing visions of battling mecha that no one else can see, various aspects of the show indicate that it clearly isn't meant to be taken seriously. These include his having to run away from the rest of the male population in his school when he's seen talking to Mitsuki, and pretty much the entire scene with Ken, an archetypal mad scientist.

It should also be noted that after the fourth episode, he dispenses with the dressing in drag. 



> *I would probably not have had an issue with it if not for the characters being so similar.  The kid is very much like Shinji, with his emotional hangups, and ineffectiveness under normal circumstances.  The girl who is actually one of teh aliens that the mechs are derived from is practically Rei, and the bossy little girl is very Asuka.  They are archtypes used in other anime though, so I suppose the intention was to purposefully use anime formulas all stuck together and run with it?*




You're basically correct here; the character archetypes are so familiar not because Dual was trying to play off of Evangelion (though I believe that that was in there too), but just because these gender roles for anime characters are stereotypical, finding themselves virtually everywhere (I did my senior composition on gender roles in anime ).

Dual, while a sci-fi mecha show, has, IMHO, its primary basis as one of the "One Guy Many Girls" subgenre that began with _Tenchi Muyo!_ All the classical types of characters are there: a shy male who somehow becomes the love object for several woman (Kazuki), one girl who obviously feels for him but can't express it, hiding it behind a wall of distaste (Mitsuki), another who feels for him, and tries to get close to him with her charms, doing cooking, laundry, etc (Yayoi), and, what was a more later development in the "One Guy Many Girls" subgenre, the girl who is emotionally undeveloped, and "warms up" thanks to the male (in this case, D).

Evangelion took itself too seriously in its character interactions to fall into this category. While Rei did feel some emotional attachment to Shinji, she never fell in love with him in terms of romance (though she did care about him, probably moreso than she did for Gendo by the end). Likewise, Asuka's enmity for Shinji isn't some schoolgirl attempt to hide a crush, but her own way of trying to ignore her deep-rooted fear of failure and sense of worthlessness. Finally, Misato doesn't ever really consider falling for Shinji, since she's still in love with her old boyfriend, Kaji. In essence, Eva is a story with fully-developed characters; they interact with and affect each other, but none of them truly revolve around another to the point where we say "we only know character X in how she related to character Y - he defines her" We can say that in Dual, since we only see most of the cast as they relate to (and are affected by) Kazuki. 

Dual wants to be (and, I think, succeeding in being) a fun anime that doesn't try to be anything more than what you see. It still has deeper complexities (which Kazuki later outlines when he asks why he was able to see across parallel dimensions to begin with, why he has no alternate in the other dimension, and why he is able to pilot a robot that is only supposed to be pilotable by women), but none of these approach the universal questions about sense of self and others posed by Evangelion.

In a sense, I would sum Dual up as being "Evangelion Lite".


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 11, 2003)

A world where only women can pilot mechs?  Sounds like someplace I'd enjoy.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 11, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *A world where only women can pilot mechs?  Sounds like someplace I'd enjoy. *




lol! Yep, that's part of the premise. In a parallel dimension, ancient ruins were found, containing powerful mechs. They were used as templates to create more, but the ancient mechas, and subsequently, the derivatively-developed mechas, can only be used and operated by females.

That's what makes it so strange that Kazuki, a male from a parallel universe, can operate one...


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 11, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> That's what makes it so strange that Kazuki, a male from a parallel universe, can operate one... *




Simple.  He got a sex change.


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 11, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *Simple.  He got a sex change. *




ROFL! He didn't want to pilot it that bad! The worst he ever did in the gender-bending department was have to dress in drag so people wouldn't realize he was a guy piloting those mechs...even that didn't take though (which is odd considering how much he did seem to enjoy testing the pair of bulbous shock absorbtion units on the chestplate of his female-disguise pilot suit  ).


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 11, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> ROFL! He didn't want to pilot it that bad! The worst he ever did in the gender-bending department was have to dress in drag so people wouldn't realize he was a guy piloting those mechs...even that didn't take though (which is odd considering how much he did seem to enjoy testing the pair of bulbous shock absorbtion units on the chestplate of his female-disguise pilot suit  ). *




Hopefully they never did check-ups for the pilots, otherwise they would find that he had a little more equipment than was required.

And what does ROFL mean?


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 11, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *Hopefully they never did check-ups for the pilots, otherwise they would find that he had a little more equipment than was required.*




Well, the top-level brass knew...unfortunately, it was a poor-kept secret, and most of the people he met in drag knew it was him, and laughed themselves silly. After that, he refused to do it again.



> *And what does ROFL mean? *




It's internet lingo for Rolling On Floor Laughing.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 11, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, the top-level brass knew...unfortunately, it was a poor-kept secret, and most of the people he met in drag knew it was him, and laughed themselves silly. After that, he refused to do it again.
> 
> ...




That's what I thought, and I am glad that I could come up with something that funny. *takes a bow*


----------



## jdavis (Jul 12, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *
> 
> For reviews on all the Samurai X OVA's and the movie:
> 
> ...



Ok so I picked up Samurai X the motion picture and it wasn't all that. The first 5 minutes was amazing then it just went flat. It was pretty much just another episode of the series that was 90 minutes long. It did have some really good moments but overall it was nothing special, just a little better animated episode of the series. (Oh yea the dub was horrible).


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 12, 2003)

I just finished the manga series, which was damn great - everything I heard about those last few OVAs made it sound like it didn't hold a candle to the manga by comparison. You'll be happy to know that Viz has announced that they'll begin releasing Rurouni Kenshin in America come November. Remember that Viz no longer produces monthly comic books, just graphic novels. Depending on how often they release them though, it could take anywhere from a few years to several years to get to the Jinchuu ("Revenge") arc with Enishi.


----------



## jdavis (Jul 17, 2003)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *I just finished the manga series, which was damn great - everything I heard about those last few OVAs made it sound like it didn't hold a candle to the manga by comparison. You'll be happy to know that Viz has announced that they'll begin releasing Rurouni Kenshin in America come November. Remember that Viz no longer produces monthly comic books, just graphic novels. Depending on how often they release them though, it could take anywhere from a few years to several years to get to the Jinchuu ("Revenge") arc with Enishi. *



 Waiting for the Berserk manga already, I'll be happy to grab the Kenshin ones when they come out too (I'vealso heard the Manga was much better than the anime (which is pretty good).


----------



## WizarDru (Jul 17, 2003)

I liked Dual, quite a bit, actually.  It was a fun SF romp, with a little depth thrown in.  It was fun in a silly way.  The main character was not a rip-off of the character from Eva...because I liked the character in Dual.

RahXephon is actually quite good, with lots of twists and turns.  Is it influenced by Evangelion?  Yes.  Is it a ripoff?  No.  Heck, it owes as much to Megazone 23 as it does to Eva.

Full Metal Panic is a lot of fun, too.  ARMS isn't for everyone, but I like it lots.  But I like high-school students with cybernetic attachments fighting against super-secret organizations, anywho.  Just look at how much I love Cyborg 009.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 17, 2003)

I saw an ep. of Cyborg 009 and didn't really care for it.  I did, however, see some of both Fushigi Yugi, and Akira.  What little I saw of both empressed me and kept me from changing the channel.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 17, 2003)

By the way, can someone remind me what OVA stands for?  I know I've heard it, I just can't remember.


----------



## WizarDru (Jul 17, 2003)

It stands for Original Video Animation, or Original Animation Video, depending on which acronym a particular company favors (although OVA won out, overall).

Cyborg 009 isn't for everybody.  It's very old-school, and I expect a lot of younger anime fans won't dig it.  That's why I didn't out-and-out recommend it.  Fushigi Yugi is an acquired taste..some love it, some hate it.  It's very slow for my tastes, and often emphasizes the plot elements that interest me the least, and marginalize the ones I'm most interested in. 

Akira is nothing short of one of the masterworks of anime, and really needs to be seen on a movie screen to truly be appreciated.  It's impressive now, but in 1988 it was absolutely mind-blowing.  Especially when you consider that little to no CGI was used in the film.  However, Akira's appeal varies from person to person.  I love the manga more, but still enjoy the movie.


----------



## spacemonkey (Jul 17, 2003)

Great thread.  You guys seem pretty knowledgeable, so maybe you can let me know if a couple anime are good or not.

Juuni Kokki - looks interesting, but I know little about it
X - pretty much same as above..

I would agree with most of the stuff I have seen suggested here (that I have seen).  Full Metal Panic is good, I have about 4 episodes to finish on that one.  Ooh, I get to finish Berserk tonight.  I just hope that the ending is good... I know there is a ton of manga, I hope they can wrap it up nicely with the final dvd.

Speaking of Manga, jdavis mentioned that he was waiting for the Berserk manga.  Is that available in the US?  I don't know much about manga (except that you read it backwards ).  Where do you get it?  Is it in english (can't read japanese, unfortunately)?


----------



## WizarDru (Jul 17, 2003)

Glad to  help.  Let's see:

Juuni Kokki is a new anime I have yet to see, otherwise known as the 12 kingdoms.  Early reviews I've heard indicate that's it's very good, if not a tad formula.

X - I'm assuming you mean the TV series.  Again, I've seen snippets but haven't actually seen it.  I know those who've read the manga, which the TV series is more closely based on.  It's a Studio Clamp production, which means pretty boys in the offing.  However, I'm told that if you get beyond the surface appearance, it's a very deep anime concerned with friends, lovers and the apocalypse.  Oh, and whether or not our fate is predestined.

As for one of my personal favorites, the manga of Beserk is being brought over by Dark Horse comics, in digest format similar to the Lone Wolf and Cub compilations, or so I understand.  Which will, quite simply, KICK ASS.

If you haven't read my earlier thread about the ending of the TV series, let me just warn you...IT IS NOT THE END OF THE SERIES.  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  THERE IS A LOT MORE STORY.

Manga is now widely available in the US, mostly in comic shops for monthlies, and chain book stores for the collections.  They usually read right to left, are in English, and cover more diverse topics than you can imagine.

In addition to the collections, you can get Raijin Magazine here in the US, which has just gone from weekly to monthly.  It is rerunnning a lot of great manga (and some not so great) from years ago and recently.  You can also get Shonen Jump, which is an american version of the Japanese comic, which is skewed at a slightly younger audience.  (Titles include Dragonball/DBZ, Yu-Gi-Oh, One Piece and so forth).


----------



## Sixchan (Jul 17, 2003)

I'll have to look into X and see if I'll get it anywhere around in Britain.  Clamp's stuff is usually good (I even have a few Cardcaptors Manga ).

Oh, has anyone ever read a Manga called "Joan"? I saw it in Borders a few weeks ago (still got to check my FLCS for it), and it looked different and cool.  Might get it, but if anyone's read it, I'd appreciate any advice on it's quality.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 18, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *It's a Studio Clamp production, which means pretty boys in the offing.  However, I'm told that if you get beyond the surface appearance, it's a very deep anime concerned with friends, lovers and the apocalypse.  Oh, and whether or not our fate is predestined.*




Sounds just like an anime version of Buffy.


----------



## spacemonkey (Jul 18, 2003)

> If you haven't read my earlier thread about the ending of the TV series, let me just warn you...IT IS NOT THE END OF THE SERIES. NOT EVEN CLOSE. THERE IS A LOT MORE STORY.




I did know that, the manga is quite long-running I hear.  What I meant was:  Does the series wrap up at least what was shown in the beginning episode (the future, with Guts-xbow-arm etc)?  If its a spoiler, don't tell me (I don't have to wait long after all ), but that was what I was really interested in.  I will be satisfied if they explain that stuff in the last dvd.

---

I thought of one I liked but hasn't been mentioned:  King of Bandits Jing.  You have to go in knowing that it is a bit more comical and romp-y, but I enjoyed the episodes I saw.


----------



## jdavis (Jul 19, 2003)

spacemonkey said:
			
		

> *
> Speaking of Manga, jdavis mentioned that he was waiting for the Berserk manga.  Is that available in the US?  I don't know much about manga (except that you read it backwards ).  Where do you get it?  Is it in english (can't read japanese, unfortunately)? *



Berserk Manga information: (Published October 15, 2003)

Dark Horse pre-order page
http://www.darkhorse.com/products/p....html?sku=12705

News bits:
3/11/03
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=3298
6/11/03
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=3730


----------



## The Blue Elf (Jul 22, 2003)

Armored Trooper Votoms,Please Teacher or the other titles.


----------



## jdavis (Jul 25, 2003)

Add Dai Guard to the list (I got the first 4 DVDs while on vacation). It is very good. 

I also got the first DVD of "s-cry-ed" and it was ok, not as good as I had hoped for from reading reviews but it wasn't bad.


----------



## spacemonkey (Jul 25, 2003)

I finished berserk.  A good ending if there was going to be a second season.... I still liked the series overall quite a bit though.
I'll definitely have to read the manga now.

Started Juuni Kokki this week as well.  I'm enjoying it, interesting world setup.

I'll have to check out Dai Guard.


----------



## Kesh (Jul 25, 2003)

spacemonkey said:
			
		

> *Great thread.  You guys seem pretty knowledgeable, so maybe you can let me know if a couple anime are good or not.
> 
> ...
> X - pretty much same as above.. *




*cracks his knuckles*

Stand back, folks, I'll handle this one! 

_X_ (aka _X/1999_) is actually based on a shoujo-manga (girl's comic), which was in turn based on a movie.

The story revolves around the end of the world, and the people fighting to determine humanity's fate. There are two main factions:


The Dragons of Heaven (aka The Seven Seals)
The Dragons of Earth (aka The Seven Angels or The Seven Harbringers)

The Dragons of Heaven are fighting to preserve humanity and generally are the 'good guys'. The Dragons of Earth are fighting to save the planet itself from the ravages of humanity, preferably by wiping humans out.

Each is comprised of seven individuals. However, there is one young man who has yet to choose sides: Kamui Shirow. It soon becomes clear that, out of everyone on the planet, he is the only one who can truely choose his own fate. Does he become a Dragon of Heaven and protect humanity, or a Dragon of Earth and return the planet to its natural beauty?

The trouble is... he doesn't want to be either. He honestly doesn't _care_ about the end of the world... he just wants to go on living his life. Kamui really is an anti-hero in this series, apparently caring about no one but himself.



			
				Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Sounds just like an anime version of Buffy. *




Not by a long shot! 

Each member of the DoH and DoE have fantastic powers, to the point of destroying entire buildings with their telekinetic abilities. Some can also magically create objects, summon spirits, see the future, or cast illusion spells. We're talking destructive power on the levels of _Akira_!

But, when you get right down to it, this is a story about family, loss, and the right to choose your own destiny. How far will you go to protect those you love? Or to make right what so many people have done wrong? What really is your greatest wish in the world?

There's a ton of symbolism in this series. It deals with the duality of human emotions, and how two people can sometimes be mirror opposites of one another. Religious symbols are everywhere, and fully half the Dragons of Heaven are members of one religion or another (Buddhist, Catholic and a couple more esoteric ones). Crosses, pentacles, and other imagery abound.

Be warned that the series is certainly violent, and there's a decent bit of blood in spots. And, if you're offended by some blasphemous imagery, well... you were warned.  There's no nudity or foul language (beyond the occasional 'damn'), but some of the emotional scenes are rather powerful. If you don't get a bit misty-eyed at the end of certain episodes, you need to check your pulse.  Others will leave you flinching or covering your eyes because what happened is so painful to think about.

I'm babbling, aren't I?  

Anyway, it's a very good series, and the first anime series that made me want to collect it. They're on volume 6 of 8 right now, using a bi-monthly release schedule. The first disc can be purchased in a special collector's box, and you can find the others either in plain DVD cases, or in limited edition black slipcovers.

Oh, and be aware that the movie is also available on DVD. I would avoid it, though, as it will spoil pretty much the whole series from what I understand. Just be sure your disc says _X [One]_, and you'll have volume 1 of the TV series.

I'd love to write more, but I'd end up spoiling too much.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Jul 26, 2003)

spacemonkey said:
			
		

> *I finished berserk.  A good ending if there was going to be a second season.... I still liked the series overall quite a bit though.
> I'll definitely have to read the manga now.
> 
> Started Juuni Kokki this week as well.  I'm enjoying it, interesting world setup.
> ...




I agree with you 100%. Thank good Dark Horse is bringing the manga over here.


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## Enchantress2 (Jul 30, 2003)

Here are some more animes that I have managed to catch glimpses of:

Cyborg009:  Didn't like it at all. 

Fushigi Yugi:  This really held my interest.  Any oppinions?

Rourini Kenshin:  Again, holds the promise of a great anime series.

____Hakusho:  I am totally drawing a blank on the full name!!      Wasn't too impressed with this one either.

P.S.  Thanx to all that contributed to the thread!  This is really helping!


----------



## spacemonkey (Jul 30, 2003)

> ____Hakusho: I am totally drawing a blank on the full name!! Wasn't too impressed with this one either.





I believe it is called Yu Yu Hakusho, though I'm not too sure on the spelling there.  I've seen a few episodes, but I didn't get too into it.  The premise is fairly interesting, but I think the juvenile spirit world honcho kinda turned me off of it.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Jul 30, 2003)

spacemonkey said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> I believe it is called Yu Yu Hakusho, though I'm not too sure on the spelling there.*




Thank you!  It was going to bug me all day!


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 4, 2003)

Happy happy joy joy!!!!   I believe I have just found the anime I am going to start collecting.  It's the series Blue Seed, I saw some eps a while back but forgot about it until just recently.  But thanks to all who gave suggestions, I will probably come to use them in the future.


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## jdavis (Aug 5, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *Happy happy joy joy!!!!   I believe I have just found the anime I am going to start collecting.  It's the series Blue Seed, I saw some eps a while back but forgot about it until just recently.  But thanks to all who gave suggestions, I will probably come to use them in the future. *



Sam Goody has the Blue Seed Perfect collection for only $54.99 online (suncoast online and mediaplay online are the same company all of them have it at that price). I have the DVD box set myself and it is a very good deal.
http://shop.samgoody.com/site/catalog/catalog.jsp?prodid=001972856&catid=cat000203


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## Uzumaki (Aug 5, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *
> Fushigi Yugi:  This really held my interest.  Any oppinions?
> *




Saw it. Pretty much hated it. The heroine is just over-the-top stupid and melodramatic. It's a very, very girly series and I don't care for the relationshipy back and forth. Which is a pity, because what doesn't suck is actually pretty good. 



> Rurouni Kenshin:  Again, holds the promise of a great anime series.




Sho' do. Kenshin is great. The manga is beautiful, too. He needs to ditch Kaoru, though.



> ____Hakusho:  I am totally drawing a blank on the full name!!      Wasn't too impressed with this one either.




I got into this a few years ago. It is pretty juvenile and macho, in a very silly way. If you didn't see an episode with Hiei and Kurama in it (the short guy in black who's Vegeta's doppelganger and the boy with red hair), hang around until they make an appearance. And, like most anime, it's better in Japanese.

My favorite part: SPOILER


Yusuke has just beaten the huge final fighter his team has been battling. Since they're in the Spirit World, all of the spectators are monsters, who are pissed about the human contenders winning. The stadium has erupted into jeers and hollers, until Yusuke just screams "If you have a problem with it, get down here and challenge me!" Everyone shuts up, and Yusuke grins and flips off the organizers of the tournament. It's very funny.

And I'm serious, go see Fruits Basket. It's much deeper than FY, and the art is better, in my opinion.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 6, 2003)

Uzumaki said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Saw it. Pretty much hated it. The heroine is just over-the-top stupid and melodramatic. It's a very, very girly series and I don't care for the relationshipy back and forth. Which is a pity, because what doesn't suck is actually pretty good.
> 
> ...




Thanx for the second oppinion on Fushigi Yugi, I will think twice about it now.  And I can't find Fruits Basket anywhere!  A lot of you have recommended it and I can't find it.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 6, 2003)

Uzumaki said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Saw it. Pretty much hated it. The heroine is just over-the-top stupid and melodramatic. It's a very, very girly series and I don't care for the relationshipy back and forth. Which is a pity, because what doesn't suck is actually pretty good.
> 
> And I'm serious, go see Fruits Basket. It's much deeper than FY, and the art is better, in my opinion. *




Thanks for the second oppinion on FY, I'll think twice about it now.  And I can't find Fruits Basket.  A lot of you have recommended it, but I can't find it anywhere!


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 6, 2003)

D'oh!!!!  How did that happen!!??  I posted twice!


----------



## WizarDru (Aug 6, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *Thanks for the second oppinion on FY, I'll think twice about it now.  And I can't find Fruits Basket.  A lot of you have recommended it, but I can't find it anywhere! *




While on the other hand, my wife loved it.  Me, I could take it or leave it....the tone shifts around a lot, from serious to comedic, and not always gracefully.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 6, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *
> 
> While on the other hand, my wife loved it.  Me, I could take it or leave it....the tone shifts around a lot, from serious to comedic, and not always gracefully. *




Are you talking about Fushigi Yugi or Fruits Basket?


----------



## WizarDru (Aug 6, 2003)

I should have been more specific.  I meant Fushigi Yugi.  Liked it, not crazy about it.  It's no Full Metal Panic or Vandread, both of which I love lots.

Fruits Basket doesn't look like it would appeal to me, especially with it's very shojo style or it's derivative-sounding plot.  Of course, I originally thought that about the original Tenchi Muyo OVA series, and greatly regretted waiting so long to enjoy that series (although I never got into either TV series very much).


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 7, 2003)

By the way, does Heavy Metal count as an anime?  I haven't seen it so I'm not sure.


----------



## Skade (Aug 7, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *By the way, does Heavy Metal count as an anime?  I haven't seen it so I'm not sure. *




I would say no.  Even with the debate over the use of the terms anime, American anime, cartoon and animation I would hazard that Heavy Metal (the original) is an animated movie, rather than anime.  It's a collection of short pieces, with fantasy, sci-fi, detective stories, pulp and other genres mixed together.  Much like the magazine it takes it's name from most of the pieces are a bit racy, and feature of course heavy metal music.  Defintly a fun watch.  I'll warm you though, it's sequel, Heavy Metal 2000 is really pretty bad.  It is the first time that a video game was better than the film it was based on, and the game was not good.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Skade said:
			
		

> *a collection of short pieces, with fantasy, sci-fi, detective stories, pulp and other genres mixed together.*




So the original movie doesn't have just one story in it?  Like the animatrix?


----------



## Uzumaki (Aug 8, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *Fruits Basket doesn't look like it would appeal to me, especially with it's very shojo style or it's derivative-sounding plot.  Of course, I originally thought that about the original Tenchi Muyo OVA series, and greatly regretted waiting so long to enjoy that series (although I never got into either TV series very much). *




Yeah, it's one of those that you really have to try. The characters are deep and interesting (most of them anyhow) and even the ones that are fairly stereotypical are somehow different. Yuki, the typical beautiful, smart, and friendly "prince" of many person's affections has quite a short temper, is a lousy cook, and is kinda violent. It's a nice change.


----------



## jdavis (Aug 8, 2003)

Enchantress2 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> So the original movie doesn't have just one story in it?  Like the animatrix? *



It's a mishmash of loosely related stories, it is good but it has more in common with 80's metal music videos than Japanese animation. I never saw Heavy Metal 2000 but I heard it was horrible.


----------



## WizarDru (Aug 8, 2003)

The original Heavy Metal wasn't just 'racy' for it's time, it was considered almost shocking, what with moderately realistic animated characters having sex, and violent disembowlments.  For 1981, it was pretty extreme.  Features a lot of voice acting from then SCTV cast members (such as John Candy, Eugene Levy, Harold Ramis and Joe Flaherty) and uses a loose framing sequence to tie together completely unrelated stories, some of which are loosely adapted from appearances in Heavy Metal magazine (such as Richard Corben's Den, Harry Canyon, the B-52 story and others).

Heavy Metal's emphasis was (and presumably still is) on reprinting lots of comics from Europe (which are of a decidely more mature content)...and boobies.


----------



## Enchantress2 (Aug 8, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> [B
> Heavy Metal's emphasis was (and presumably still is) on reprinting lots of comics from Europe (which are of a decidely more mature content)...and boobies. [/B]




Well, we know that they succeeded in at least one.


----------



## enworldatemylogin (Aug 9, 2003)

One word.

FLCL

If you want your brain to melt, FLCL.


----------



## Stormfalcon (Aug 9, 2003)

enworldatemylogin said:
			
		

> *One word.
> 
> FLCL
> 
> If you want your brain to melt, FLCL. *




Then wait for Abenobashi Shopping District...


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 9, 2003)

Stormfalcon said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Then wait for Abenobashi Shopping District... *




Has it been licensed? Ick..please no. Its too great a series to corrupt!  Really, I don't think a lot of the jokes in Abenobashi would convert well...but its definatly a great series.

Ah well, I'm the extreme end of things. Things I can recommend you probably won't find in the US. 

I'm also a big big mech fan...so I'll suggest Macross Zero which rules all. Great mech action and good backstory for Macross. If you like mecha, watch some UC Gundam. Preferably go through Mobile Suit Gundam-Zeta Gundam(it is licensed...but I don't think it will do well in America because its just so painfully depressing and dark)-Char's Counterattack. If you can, watch the subs. The Japanesse VAs for Gundam are some of the best ever.


----------



## Stormfalcon (Aug 9, 2003)

ADV has Abenobashi.  Hopefully, they won't toss it to Steven Foster, and that they'll use the vid-notes feature.  They'll need it.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 9, 2003)

Stormfalcon said:
			
		

> *ADV has Abenobashi.  Hopefully, they won't toss it to Steven Foster, and that they'll use the vid-notes feature.  They'll need it. *




ADV? Ick...ADV seems to have gone down hill. And they definatly will need a LOT of notes. Its a great series...but not exactly the greatest for non-Japanese audiences.

Not that it actually matters to me anyway, I don't buy DVDs with dub tracks...but that isn't the point.


----------



## WizarDru (Aug 10, 2003)

I like Abenobashi...but the fan-service, even blatantly in-jokey as it is, gets a little much at times.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 10, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *I like Abenobashi...but the fan-service, even blatantly in-jokey as it is, gets a little much at times. *




Agreed...though, come on! The space episode was the best...all those 2001 references


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