# Dungeonaday campaign/freeform combat playtest [PFRPG][OOC]



## Malvoisin (Sep 2, 2009)

Hey folks,

A conversation in the 'new guy' thread has bloomed into a group of interested players (Rhun, HolyMan, Walking Dad) and myself who want to work on developing a mapless combat system for OGL gaming. The objective is to use the campaign as a playtest for developing ideas that permit strategic combats (still incorporating OGL features like flanking, attacks of opportunity, etc.), but without the use of battle maps.

The current proposal is for me to DM a game using Monte Cook's dungeonaday mega-dungeon as the setting. The system to be used is the Pathfinder RPG rulebook. Character roles are still largely up in the air. HolyMan wants to play a martial character with a reach weapon...everything else still yet to be determined.

I'd like to get at least one more interested person (for a party of four PCs), but I'd take up to three more if there is significant interest. Remember that the objective is two-fold: have fun exploring a really cool dungeon, and collaborate in a relaxed fashion to see whether mapless OGL gaming is really viable. Interested candidates should be easy-going, and flexible enough to adapt to rules changes mid-stream.


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## HolyMan (Sep 2, 2009)

Shot gun!!!

Place holder for Wi Yuin (We WIN)

Human Fighter


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## Malvoisin (Sep 2, 2009)

Rhun, WD,

You guys have any idea what you'd like to play?


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## HolyMan (Sep 2, 2009)

Character gene rules ??

Anything special or take right out of the PRD?

STATS- roll or point buy 
STARTING GP- set or rolled
CLASS/RACE- any restrictions
LVL- starting lvl?
MISC- flaws, traits etc.

just a couple questions

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 2, 2009)

Let me look through my Pathfinder book tonight and see what tickles my fancy.


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 2, 2009)

Interested person here!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Character gene rules ??
> 
> Anything special or take right out of the PRD?
> 
> ...




My preferences (all negotiable):

Stats: 15 Point Buy
Starting GP: Average
Class/Race: Anything Core (with the caveat that we want a good class variety for the playtest)
Starting Level: 1st
Misc: 2 Traits, No Flaws


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

Tailspinner said:


> Interested person here!




Excellent, welcome to the party! Anything in particular you'd like to play, Tailspinner?

Gentlemen, we have a quorum!  But I'll leave the recruiting tag on the subject line for now, in case anybody else wants to get onboard.


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## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2009)

Darn no flaws guess I'll wait for my Dazzling Display feat lol np

sounds good now i can finish my crunch 

HM


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## GlassEye (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm also interested.  My main problem is deciding what to play...  I am curious about clerics, though: will you be using Golarion's pantheon?


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## Walking Dad (Sep 3, 2009)

Hi, hope I'm not to late (damn timezones ).

As we want to test the special combat maneuvers interacting with no combat map use I will play a monk. Needs to move often, has Acrobatics and gains maneuver feats as bonus feats.

Note: 15 pts can be a problem with MAD characters (Paladin, Monk,...)

Would you allow the goblin, tiefling, and/or tengu race from the Bestiary preview?


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## Rhun (Sep 3, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> My preferences (all negotiable):
> 
> Stats: 15 Point Buy
> Starting GP: Average
> ...




I think I'd like to give a barbarian a try. I haven't tried playing one in a couple of years. Does that work, Mal?


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## jkason (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm liking Pathfinder from what I've been able to play of it. I'd be interested, maybe in an arcane slot? The sorcerer bloodlines seem like fun, if that works as a class to help test what you're looking at?

jason


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> I'm also interested.  My main problem is deciding what to play...  I am curious about clerics, though: will you be using Golarion's pantheon?




GlassEye, welcome! You're the fifth player.

In answer to your question, the dungeonaday project is not set in Golarion, but in Monte Cook's homebrew world. A few deities have been developed so far, and as the project grows, there will likely be more. Here are the three presented so far (that are suitable for PCs to follow):

*Belestros:* A god of strength, stone, and all things tangible. Belestros' followers are practical and usually live off of some natural resource, such as farmers, herders, or miners. Belestros is Lawful Neutral. His domains are Law, Strength, and Earth. His favored weapon is the mace or cudgel.

*Glarias, the Moon Goddess:* A minor goddess worshipped in the lands surrounding the Fallen Duchy and revered there in its heyday. Glarias presides over the moon, so while she is not an evil goddess, she uses shadow (and even darkness) as well as light as both tools and raiment. Glarias is Chaotic Good. Her domains are Good, Knowledge, and Luck. Her favored weapon is a mace.  

*Vune:* A goddess of light, purity, and charity. Most, but not all of Vune's clerics are female. Those that are not belong to a sub-sect called the Brothers of Charity and focus on aiding the poor, the sick, and orphans in the name of their goddess. The rest of the clergy is interested in spreading Vune's teachings of helping others before helping oneself. Vune's worship is widespread and extremely popular. Her clerics are often treated as a special, highly respected social class. Vune is Lawful Good. Her domains are Good, Healing, and Sun. Her favored weapon is a mace.

If none of those tickle your fancy, I would have no problem with working out something else. Really, you could even just 'reskin' a Golarion (or FR or Greyhawk, etc.) deity, and take a desired set of domains, favored weapon, etc. I'm flexible. The world is polytheistic, there are lots of deities out there.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Hi, hope I'm not to late (damn timezones ).



Not at all! 



Walking Dad said:


> As we want to test the special combat maneuvers interacting with no combat map use I will play a monk. Needs to move often, has Acrobatics and gains maneuver feats as bonus feats.
> 
> Note: 15 pts can be a problem with MAD characters (Paladin, Monk,...)



I could be persuaded to go for 20 point buy. There, I just was. Let's use 20 points. I think monk is a good choice for this purpose, as you pointed out.



Walking Dad said:


> Would you allow the goblin, tiefling, and/or tengu race from the Bestiary preview?




If you want to do a non-traditional race, my first choice of those three options would be the tengu, followed by the tiefling (if non-evil). Not too keen on the goblin though.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I think I'd like to give a barbarian a try. I haven't tried playing one in a couple of years. Does that work, Mal?




That works very well!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

jkason said:


> I'm liking Pathfinder from what I've been able to play of it. I'd be interested, maybe in an arcane slot? The sorcerer bloodlines seem like fun, if that works as a class to help test what you're looking at?
> 
> jason




Yep, an arcane caster of some stripe will be an important addition to the party. Welcome, jkason!

Okay, that puts us at six players and I want to cut things off there, to keep it manageable. That said, I'd welcome anyone who wants to lurk and offer helpful, behind-the-scenes comments on the playtest. If the need for an alternate should arise, priority would go to anyone who has actively been posting in the discussion.

Let's look over the roster...

Rhun - Barbarian
HolyMan - Reach Fighter
Walking Dad - Monk
Tailspinner - ??
GlassEye - Cleric?
jkason - Sorcerer

What do you guys think, does the party need a rogue? Tailspinner, you up for that?


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

Players, here's a handout to introduce the setting a bit, and maybe offer a little inspiration:



			
				Dungeonaday Player's Handout said:
			
		

> Maybe you first heard the name in a tavern well after closing time, as two old adventurers, well past their prime, spoke of it in hushed tones. Maybe it was from your own mother, who swore she'd send you there when you misbehaved. Perhaps you read the name in an ancient tome of history and lore illuminated by flickering candlelight late at night as the wind howled outside. Wherever you first heard of the place, you have long heard tales of Dragon's Delve.
> 
> A vast underground dungeon of labyrinths and catacombs, built perhaps by dwarves or perhaps by wizards--or maybe even dragons--Dragon's Delve is infamous among treasure-hunters and monster-slayers. Filled with deadly danger and ancient treasures, the dungeon offers both risk and reward in equal amounts, each growing more intense the deeper one goes. How much peril is worth risking for how much return? It's all up to those brave enough to try.
> 
> ...


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 3, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Let's look over the roster...
> 
> Rhun - Barbarian
> HolyMan - Reach Fighter
> ...




Sounds good.


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## Rhun (Sep 3, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Players, here's a handout to introduce the setting a bit, and maybe offer a little inspiration:




Sounds exciting!

I can probably have my PC put together this weekend.


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## GlassEye (Sep 3, 2009)

Sounds great to me, too, and I can run a cleric, no problem.  Of the three deities, Glarias interests me the most.  I also can have my character ready this weekend, likely Friday evening.


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## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2009)

Man thought I was done but now I got to go spend 5 more points

Well at least I won't have an 8 charisma anymore but it fit so good...

HM


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## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2009)

```
Name: Wi Yuin
Class: Fighter
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Deity: ?
 
Str: 13 +1 (03p.)     Level: 1        XP: 0
Dex: 18 +4 (10p.)     BAB: +1         HP: ??
Con: 12 +1 (02p.)     CMB: +2         Dmg Red: none
Int: 13 +1 (03p.)     CMD: 16         Spell Res: 0%
Wis: 12 +1 (02p.)     Init: +4        Spell Save: n/a
Cha: 10 +0 (00p.)     Speed: 30'      Spell Fail: n/a
 
                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:           10      +4     +0     +4   +0     +0    +0    18
Touch: 14              Flatfooted: 14 
                          Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      2     +0          +2
Ref:                       0     +4          +4
Will:                      0     +1          +1
 
Weapon                 Attack   Damage     Critical   Range
Ranseur                 +2       2d4+1       x3       ---
Butterfly Swords(sa)    +6       1d6+1     19-20x2    ---
Butterfly Swords(fa)  +4/+4      1d6+1     19-20x2    ---
Shortbow                +5       1d6         x3       70'   
Knife(melee)            +2       1d3+1     19-20x2    ---
Knife(thrown)           +5       1d3+1     19-20x2    10' 
 
Languages: Common (but has taken a vow of silence)
Abilities: Human traits, bonus fighter feats
 
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(short sword)
A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, light, and medium) and shields 
(including tower shields).
 
Skill Ranks/lvl: 2+2/lvl   Total Ranks: 4     ACP:-2   
Skills                      Ranks  Mod  CSB  Misc   Total          
Acrobatics                    1    +4        -2      +3
Intimidate                    1    +0   +3           +4
Perception                    1    +1                +2
Survival                      1    +1   +3           +5
 
 
Equipment:                           Cost  Weight
Peasant's outfit                      free    0lb
Oriental Armor(chainshirt)           100gp   25lb
Ranseur                               10gp   12lb
Butterfly Swords(2)(short swords)     20gp    4lb
Shortbow                              30gp    2lb
-quiver w/20 arrows                    1gp    3lb
Knife(small dagger)                    2gp    1lb
Sack w/shoulder rope                   1sp   .5lb
-rations (2 days)                      1gp    2lb
-candles(3)                            3cp    ---
-tindertwigs(9) in small tube          9gp    ---
-meditation robe(peasant's outfit)     1sp    2lb
Bedroll (straw mat)                    1sp    5lb
Water Gourd                            1gp    4lb        
 
Total Weight:60.5lb      Money: 7sp 5cp
                           Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push
Max Weight:          ????????????????????????????????
 
Age: 19
Height: 5'06"
Weight: 105lb
Eyes: black
Hair: black and very long
Skin: tanned
```


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## Rhun (Sep 3, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Man thought I was done but now I got to go spend 5 more points




Did I miss something about 20 point-buy instad of 15?

Found it.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Did I miss something about 20 point-buy instad of 15?
> 
> Found it.




It's Walking Dad's fault, making demands and such.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

Hey guys, I made a Rogues Gallery thread for the game. You can post character sheets there.

For those getting to work on characters, this weekend is fine, or even later. I don't think I'll be ready to kick off the IC thread before next week sometime (after Labor Day) anyhow. Unless you're an eager beaver like HolyMan, that is, in which case you'll just have to twiddle your thumbs for awhile.


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## Rhun (Sep 3, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> For those getting to work on characters, this weekend is fine, or even later. I don't think I'll be ready to kick off the IC thread before next week sometime (after Labor Day) anyhow. Unless you're an eager beaver like HolyMan, that is, in which case you'll just have to twiddle your thumbs for awhile.




Yeah, HM has a lot of time on his hands!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 3, 2009)

Tailspinner said:


> Sounds good.




Excellent!



GlassEye said:


> Sounds great to me, too, and I can run a cleric, no problem.  Of the three deities, Glarias interests me the most.  I also can have my character ready this weekend, likely Friday evening.




Excellent again!

So, we've got this lineup:

Rhun - Barbarian
HolyMan - Reach Fighter
Walking Dad - Monk
Tailspinner - Rogue
GlassEye - Cleric of Glarias
jkason - Sorcerer

Sounds great to me!


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## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2009)

No twiddling here I have 10 other games going and a Pathfinder Wizard to make for WD's game (fighters alot easier than wizard) so I was doing both at once as an item arrived

And I need personality/apperance/background for Yuin and my work week starts today (yuck) in about 3 hours so getting things in asap

Oh and I am an eager beaver!! 

HM


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## jkason (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm thinking about using the Celestial bloodline for my sorcerer, but haven't gotten much further than that in the chargen process. Seems kind of interesting to have the multi-use power have different effects like heavenly fire does.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 4, 2009)

jkason said:


> I'm thinking about using the Celestial bloodline for my sorcerer, but haven't gotten much further than that in the chargen process. Seems kind of interesting to have the multi-use power have different effects like heavenly fire does.




I think that the sorcerer bloodlines are one of the most interesting additions to the new rules. Celestial would be a good choice. Then again, most of the others would be fine choices as well. Knock yourself out, go with whatever interests you the most!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 4, 2009)

Guys, here's a bit more info from the website concerning the campaign setting and the lay of the land surrounding the dungeon.

[sblock=Surrounding Environs]
In the middle of an area now known as the Fallen Duchy, the environs of Dragon's Delve include many overgrown (and sometimes forgotten) ruins. The Duchy of Chordille fell almost 100 years ago, and compared to those happier days, the region now lays as an almost uninhabited wilderness.

At the center of the Fallen Duchy lie the ruins of Chordille Keep (which itself provides entrance to Dragon's Delve). This ruin offers no intact structures--only vine-grasped piles of stones, overgrown outlines of foundations, and the furtive hint of walls and arches. The entrance to the dungeon itself is little more than a twenty-foot wide open pit with an exposed stone stair that descends into darkness. Various explorers and treasure seekers have left the entrance well-cleared. Likewise, the observant adventurer may notice the remnants of cooking fires and other signs that previous delvers have made camp near this pit.

Chordille Keep rests atop a long, gentle hill known as Bryson's Look. The area grows thick with silver maples, boxelders, and the occasional firethorn. Somewhere south of the keep lies a mysterious, abandoned structure some call Terregaunt's Tower. At the north end of Bryson's Look, near the mighty River Turant, lies Brindenford. This small town offers a few amenities to those looking to risk the dangers of Dragon's Delve thanks to its minor importance in trade. Brindenford rests at a major crossing of the Turant for the Queen's Road, upon which travel caravans laden with the spices and salt traveling to the west and those bearing wool and iron goods to the east. Likewise, loggers from the north use the Turant to send wood down to the mills to the south, and Brindenford offers a landing for this process as well.   

Currently, the town remains independent, as no authority higher than its lord mayor claims the wilderness in which it carefully nestles. Technically, the entire region falls under the rule of High King Rudik in faraway Kelmanosh, but even his vaunted tax collectors do not venture this far west. With trade once again increasing, however, this may change in the near future.

Brindenford lies approximately two miles from the ruins of Chordille Keep. Most folk of the town know better than to go there, fearing the very real tales of orcs and goblins lurking there, and the more fanciful (but still possibly true) tales of evil spirits and curses that haunt that sad place. Still, one can't spend an evening in the taproom of the Lost Shepherd Inn, chat with the locals in the hiring hall, or sit with the fishermen on the dock as they complain about the loggers without hearing a rumor or legend about the mysteries that lie within Dragon's Delve.
[/sblock]

The town of Brindenford will be an important base of operations for the party to use for rests, shopping, etc. It _might_ also have some secrets of its own that tie into the dungeon in interesting ways, but I'll say no more of such things right now. Anyway, we'll assume the party assembles in Brindenford at the local inn which caters to dungeon explorers, The Lost Shepherd.

I'd like your opinions as to how you want the IC thread to begin. Do you want to begin in the town, and role-play the formation of the party? Or, would you rather hand wave that stuff, and begin on the 'doorstep' of the dungeon? I'm fine either way, so majority rules.

Final comment: I've copied the 'surrounding environs' info above into the first post of the Rogues Gallery, for easy referencing later on. That section will grow over time with lots of stuff like maps, handouts, NPC descriptions, and more. So don't forget about it, please.


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## Walking Dad (Sep 4, 2009)

Got already an image, a wanderer from a distant land:

[sblock=Picture]





[/sblock]

As they moved to the Delve a contemplative human  seemed to be waiting there for them, his simple clothing and walking stick made him appear to be nothing more than a simple commoner, but the way he moved, with fluidity and poise, betrayed his exceptional nature. Mentioning his quest for perfection, he seemed an interesting companion and the others agreed to let him join them.


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## Rhun (Sep 4, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> The town of Brindenford will be an important base of operations for the party to use for rests, shopping, etc. It _might_ also have some secrets of its own that tie into the dungeon in interesting ways, but I'll say no more of such things right now. Anyway, we'll assume the party assembles in Brindenford at the local inn which caters to dungeon explorers, The Lost Shepherd.




What about the "larger" campaign world. I plan for my barbarian to be a Norse-flavored warrior. Is there any certain campaign world info you want me to reference, or can I just be creative?



Malvoisin said:


> I'd like your opinions as to how you want the IC thread to begin. Do you want to begin in the town, and role-play the formation of the party? Or, would you rather hand wave that stuff, and begin on the 'doorstep' of the dungeon? I'm fine either way, so majority rules.




I prefer not to role-play the actual formation of the party. It always seems a bit "forced." I'd rather have a "last night while drunk at the tavern, the six of you travellers heard the legends of loot to be had, and made a drunken pact to investigate in the morning." Or something.


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## jkason (Sep 4, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I prefer not to role-play the actual formation of the party. It always seems a bit "forced." I'd rather have a "last night while drunk at the tavern, the six of you travellers heard the legends of loot to be had, and made a drunken pact to investigate in the morning." Or something.




I'm all for the drunken pact idea. Seems like just the kind of thing that would lead to a dungeon dive.

Does anyone have a link handy for the traits PDF for Pathfinder? I can't seem to find it on their site...

thanks

jason


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## Rhun (Sep 4, 2009)

I've got the pdf file, but not the link. I could email it to you? Or you might do a search for web enhancement on the Paizo site. I seem to recall it was difficult to find, though.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 4, 2009)

jkason said:


> Does anyone have a link handy for the traits PDF for Pathfinder? I can't seem to find it on their site...
> 
> thanks
> 
> jason




You can download the PDF here at the Pathfinder resources page. Alternatively, I believe the traits are open content, and as such, are included in the SRD, linked in my sig. Hope that solves it for you!

edit: Actually, for some reason, the official SRD doesn't include trait info. But, there is another unofficial SRD that does have said info! So you could use that. Actually, I think that second SRD is a little bit more user-friendly anyway, so I may have to start using that all the time. But I digress.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 4, 2009)

Rhun said:


> What about the "larger" campaign world. I plan for my barbarian to be a Norse-flavored warrior. Is there any certain campaign world info you want me to reference, or can I just be creative?



Nah, if he hails from some far-off land, you can just invent the details as you like. Go nuts!



Rhun said:


> I prefer not to role-play the actual formation of the party. It always seems a bit "forced." I'd rather have a "last night while drunk at the tavern, the six of you travellers heard the legends of loot to be had, and made a drunken pact to investigate in the morning." Or something.




Your voice has been heard (along with jkason's), so that's two votes for 'on the doorstep'.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 4, 2009)

RG Update: I just added a map of the local environment around the ruins of Chordile Keep, and also a map of the town of Brindenford. Good times!


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## jkason (Sep 4, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> You can download the PDF here at the Pathfinder resources page. Alternatively, I believe the traits are open content, and as such, are included in the SRD, linked in my sig. Hope that solves it for you!
> 
> edit: Actually, for some reason, the official SRD doesn't include trait info. But, there is another unofficial SRD that does have said info! So you could use that. Actually, I think that second SRD is a little bit more user-friendly anyway, so I may have to start using that all the time. But I digress.




Perfect. Thanks!


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## Rhun (Sep 4, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> RG Update: I just added a map of the local environment around the ruins of Chordile Keep, and also a map of the town of Brindenford. Good times!




Awesome. You rock, Mal!


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## CanadienneBacon (Sep 4, 2009)

This'll teach me not to not check in at EN World for a day and a half!  Enjoy!


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## Rhun (Sep 4, 2009)

CanadienneBacon said:


> This'll teach me not to not check in at EN World for a day and a half!  Enjoy!




Hee hee! Make sure you check all threads too...since this originally came about from the "New Guy" thread. LOL.


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## CanadienneBacon (Sep 4, 2009)

I'm not that dedicated!


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## GlassEye (Sep 4, 2009)

I'm fine with the drunken pact & on the doorstep.  And it seems that my PC will be a bit more local than others who've spoken up so far.  Not from Brindenford but somewhere close, perhaps.


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## jkason (Sep 4, 2009)

Rough draft / in progress sheet for my sorcerer:


```
[B]Name:[/B] Nathan Tchanlach
[B]Class:[/B] Sorcerer
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male
[B]Alignment:[/B] Chaotic Good
[B]Deity:[/B] None

[B]Str:[/B] 10  +0 (0p.)      [B]Level:[/B] 1        [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 14  +2 (5p.)      [B]BAB:[/B] +0         [B]HP:[/B] 7/7 (1d6+1)
[B]Con:[/B] 13  +1 (3p.)      [B]CMB:[/B] +0         [B]ACP:[/B] 0 
[B]Int:[/B] 12  +1 (2p.)      [b]CMD:[/b] 12         [B]Spell Res:[/B] -
[B]Wis:[/B] 10  +0 (0p.)      [B]Speed:[/B] 30'      [B]Spell Save:[/B] -
[B]Cha:[/B] 18  +4 (10p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +4*       [B]Spell Fail:[/B] -

* +2 trait bonus (Reactionary)

                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +0    +0    +2    +0    +0    +1   13
[B]Touch:[/B] 13              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10

+1 AC Dodge

                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      0    +1         +1
[B]Ref:[/B]                       0    +2         +2
[B]Will:[/B]                      2    +0         +2

Special: +1 saves vs. divine spells (History of Heresy trait)


[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage*    Critical[/B]
Dagger....................+0.....1d4...........19-20/x2
Dagger, thrown............+2.....1d4...........19-20/xt, range 10ft.
Sickle....................+0.....1d6...........x2
Light Crossbow............+2.....1d8...........19-20/x2, range 80 ft.

* +1 damage if Arcane Strike invoked

[B]Languages:[/B] 
Common
Celestial

[B]Abilities:[/B]

--Human--

* +2 ability of choice (CHA)
* Bonus feat
* Bonus skill point ea. level
* Choose favored class (Sorcerer, +1 skill point) 

--Sorcerer--

* Bonus Feat: Eschew Materials
* Cantrips at will
* Arcane spells:
     ~Known (cantrips/1st): 4/2
     ~Per Day (1st): 3+1 Cha
* Simple weapon proficiency
* Bloodline powers (Celestial)

--Celestial Bloodline--

* Heal is a class skill
* Arcana: summoned creatures get DR/evil = 1/2 sorc level (min 1, non-stacked)
* Heavenly Fire 3 + 4 CHA / day
    ~Range 30 feet
    ~Ranged touch attack
    ~1d4 dmg evil (+1 per 2 sorc levels)
    ~1d4 heal good (1/day/creature) (+1 per 2 sorc levels)
    ~Neutral: no effect


[b]Traits:[/b]
Reactionary: +2 trait bonus to Initiative
History of Heresy: +1 vs. divine spells (lost if taking a divine spellcasting class)

[B]Feats:[/B] 
Dodge (1st level)
Arcane Strike (human bonus)
Eschew Materials (Sorcerer bonus)

[B]Skill Points:[/B] 5      [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 1
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Class  Misc  Total[/B]

--Class (+3 bonus)--
Bluff......................1....+4....+3..........+8
Intimidate.................1....+4....+3..........+8
Know: Arcana...............1....+1....+3..........+5
Spellcraft.................1....+1....+3..........+5
Use Magic Device...........1....+4....+3..........+8


[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]

--Worn / Carried--
Sickle....................6gp....2lb
Dagger....................2gp....1lb
Light Crossbow...........35gp....4lb
Bolts(10).................1gp....1lb
Backpack..................2gp....2lb
Belt pouch................1gp....1/2lb
Signal Whistle............8sp....--
Explorer's outfit..........--....--

--In Backpack--
Chalk (5).................5cp....--
Scroll case...............1gp....1/2lb
Flint & Steel.............1gp....--
Ink (1 oz.)...............8gp....--
Inkpen....................1sp....--
Parchment (5).............1gp....--
Trail rations (6).........3gp....6lb
Waterskin.................1gp....4lb
Torch (5).................5cp....5lb


[B]Total Weight:[/B]26lbs      [B]Money:[/B] 7gp

                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]                33   66   100   200   500

[B]Age:[/B] 18
[B]Height:[/B] 5'11"
[B]Weight:[/B] 195lb
[B]Eyes:[/B] Brown
[B]Hair:[/B] Black
[B]Skin:[/B] Olive
```



[sblock=Appearance]Nathan is always slightly unkempt. His beard is never quite trimmed, his hair never quite neat, and his clothing generally rumpled and smudged with a stain or two. Despite this (or perhaps because of it, if one's inclined toward the devil-may-care nature of his grooming) Nathan cuts a striking figure: broad shoulders, square jaw, bright eyes with what can be a penetrating stare. And, if you can get him to show it off, a winning smile.[/sblock]
[sblock=Background]Nathan's mother, Irene, swore that his father was an angel who visited her one evening out in her father's field. Irene's father, Cantor--who was incidentally the pastor of their small village--simply believed that his headstrong teenaged daughter was telling lies to cover for her blasphomous dalliance with some randy farmer's son who hadn't the manhood to lay claim to his bastard child. He did not abondon his daughter, but he made life miserable for her, abusing her with both his words and his belt. Until--her repeated prayers for her angelic lover to return now unanswered for a full five years--she took her own life rather than live under the hateful thumb of her father.

Nathan was left in Cantor's care, and quickly learned that nothing he could do would ever please the man. Nathan was a living reminder of the lying harlotry of his mother, and his grandfather treated him as little better than a slave. Until, that is, on the boy's fifteenth birthday, when a flash of brilliance revealed Nathan's father, who was, indeed, angelic. Between the sight of the creature and witnessing Nathan's ability to speak its celestial tongue as if he were born to it, Cantor prostrated himself and begged forgiveness even as Nathan's angelic father told him of the glorious good his magical bloodline was destined to do. 

But the boy-verging-on-manhood denounced both of them: Cantor for the abuse to which he subjected first Irene and then Nathan, and his celestial father for waiting until far too late to intervene. Nathan denounced any kind of allegiance to a higher being, and stuck out on his own. 

Nathan's blood, however, seems rather difficult to forsake. For he has developed powers that are clearly more than human, and discovered a natural penchant for magic. And, honestly, for all that he denounces authority, he keeps somehow doing The Right Thing despite himself. Still, he continues to rebel against his background, even as he takes advantage of the magical powers his blood provides. [/sblock]

[sblock=Spells Known]Cantrips (at will): Detect Magic, Message, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation
1st level(4/day, DC 15): Mage Armor, Magic Missle[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan (Sep 5, 2009)

Druken pact at the doorstep is ok but since Yuin doesn't talk I may have been off to the side following the curious adventures then was allowed to join.

I do have a big stick after all 

HM


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## GlassEye (Sep 5, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Druken pact at the doorstep is ok but since Yuin doesn't talk I may have been off to the side following the curious adventures then was allowed to join.
> 
> I do have a big stick after all
> 
> HM




"He drinks our beer and follows us around like a stray dog.  We'd run 'im off but he carries a really big stick..."


Malvoisin, what character sheet format do you prefer?


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## Rhun (Sep 5, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Druken pact at the doorstep is ok but since Yuin doesn't talk I may have been off to the side following the curious adventures then was allowed to join.





What's up with you and PCs that have problems, HolyMan? One arm; can't talk. what's next?


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## Malvoisin (Sep 5, 2009)

CanadienneBacon said:


> This'll teach me not to not check in at EN World for a day and a half!  Enjoy!




Err, yeah, the whole thing did come together pretty fast, didn't it? Sorry about that, but you are more than welcome to follow the game and post here in the discussion thread, CB!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 5, 2009)

CanadienneBacon said:


> I'm not that dedicated!




Dedication or boredom? You make the call!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 5, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> I'm fine with the drunken pact & on the doorstep.  And it seems that my PC will be a bit more local than others who've spoken up so far.  Not from Brindenford but somewhere close, perhaps.




That's just fine. Not all of the PCs need to hail from far-flung lands. It is best if none of the characters grew up in Brindenford, though. That way, all of you can learn about the town together.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 5, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> I'm fine with the drunken pact & on the doorstep.  And it seems that my PC will be a bit more local than others who've spoken up so far.  Not from Brindenford but somewhere close, perhaps.




That's just fine. Not all of the PCs need to hail from far-flung lands. It is best if none of the characters grew up in Brindenford, though. That way, all of you can learn about the town together.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 5, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Malvoisin, what character sheet format do you prefer?




I'm not too picky about that, so you can go with whatever works for you, so long as it's reasonably well organized.


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## HolyMan (Sep 5, 2009)

Rhun said:


> What's up with you and PCs that have problems, HolyMan? One arm; can't talk. what's next?




It wasn't me that wanted a one arm character.. but now that I think on it a guy who gets his arm bitin off by a dragon and the dragon gets away Oh Ranger fave enemy dragon yep yep in the works but he took two weapon fighting as style choice hmmm he IS mad.

Yuin want's to be a monk (a little alignment problem and he's hot headed) so he has takin a vow of silence to help enlighten himself  hey i won't need to post so much lol

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 5, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> It wasn't me that wanted a one arm character.. btu now that I think on it a guy who gets his arm bitin off by a dragon and the dragon gets away Oh Ranger fave enemy dragon yep yep in the works but he took two weapon fighting as style choice hmmm he IS mad.




My mistake, don't know why I thought that was you.



HolyMan said:


> Yuin want's to be a monk (a little alignment problem and he's hot headed) so he has takin a vow of silence to help enlighten himself  hey i won't need to post so much lol





Sounds like an interesting roleplaying situation.


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## HolyMan (Sep 5, 2009)

"....." 

Yuin looks over and smiles a brightness in his eyes, you must have "hit the nail on the head" so to speak.


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## Rhun (Sep 5, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> "....."
> 
> Yuin looks over and smiles a brightness in his eyes, you must have "hit the nail on the head" so to speak.




At least he can hear the rest of us.


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## HolyMan (Sep 5, 2009)

Hmmm.... no better not make him deaf that may be to much, but a little hard of hearing lol

I figure there will be miscommunications to start but after everyone becomes accustomed to one another you'll be able to read Yuin's action with a glance which will make a better game for all.

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 5, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Hmmm.... no better not make him deaf that may be to much, but a little hard of hearing lol




-4 on listen checks?


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## GlassEye (Sep 6, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Sounds like an interesting roleplaying situation.




Hmm...ventriloquism, anyone? lol


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## Rhun (Sep 6, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Hmm...ventriloquism, anyone? lol




At least we don't have to worry about him being loud and obnoxious.


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## HolyMan (Sep 6, 2009)

"...."  

The eyebrows on Yuin's forehead come down in a menacing look, and even his ponytail seems to bristle. He moves his ranseur off his shoulder and grips it in both hands...


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## HolyMan (Sep 6, 2009)

[sblock=ooc]





[/sblock]

hm


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## Rhun (Sep 6, 2009)

Of course, since the barbarian is looking the other direction, he fails to note Yuin's menacing look.


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## GlassEye (Sep 6, 2009)

Malvoisin, I was wondering if I could use the trait _Child of Infamy_ from the Council of Thieves Player's Guide.  The text of the trait is below but I would also want to make two minor changes to the trait if allowed.  First, I don't want the extra gold pieces; it just doesn't fit my idea of a mendicant priest.  And second, instead of Perform (Act) I would like the skill to be Perform (Sing).

The idea is that my PC, Iradias, was raised in a rather infamous school that produced and trained castrati.  Because of an illness he suffered damage to his vocal cords (destroying his 'career') but also marking his face with the symbol of Glasias and setting him on the path of divine service.  (I've selected _Birthmark_ as his other trait.)

[sblock=Child of Infamy]Child of Infamy: Your family has long been in show business. Perhaps it was your parents, or an older sibling, or an uncle or aunt—whatever the case, one of your close relatives is, or was, a well-known and well-loved actor or actress. That this relation died in some compromising and embarrassing way has done little to alter your family’s name and fame—if anything, the unfortunate death has increased it. When folk learn your last name, they are quick to assume you live a wild life like your ill-fated relative,
and whether you bask in this notoriety or do your best to hide your heritage, the years of association with the acting scene have had their effect. You’ve certainly inherited your relative’s talents, and are a larger-than-life figure, a melodramatic attention-hound, or a sly manipulator of emotions. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Perform (act) skill checks, and the skill is always considered a class skill for you. Furthermore, you’ve inherited some of your relative’s funds, and begin play with a nest egg of 300 gp that you can spend however you wish.[/sblock]


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## Rhun (Sep 6, 2009)

I hope to have the basics of my character done tonight. I'd say today, but I need to mow the lawn and get some stuff done around the house. I wish someone had told me how much work home ownership was...I would have just bought a condo!


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## Walking Dad (Sep 7, 2009)

I know, my character isn't ready, but I thought I would play the monk


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## HolyMan (Sep 7, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> I know, my character isn't ready, but I thought I would play the monk




You are playing the monk I'm playing the monk wannabe lol

Yuin's a fighter who wishes he was a monk.

HM


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## Malvoisin (Sep 7, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Malvoisin, I was wondering if I could use the trait _Child of Infamy_ from the Council of Thieves Player's Guide.  The text of the trait is below but I would also want to make two minor changes to the trait if allowed.  First, I don't want the extra gold pieces; it just doesn't fit my idea of a mendicant priest.  And second, instead of Perform (Act) I would like the skill to be Perform (Sing).
> 
> The idea is that my PC, Iradias, was raised in a rather infamous school that produced and trained castrati.  Because of an illness he suffered damage to his vocal cords (destroying his 'career') but also marking his face with the symbol of Glasias and setting him on the path of divine service.  (I've selected _Birthmark_ as his other trait.)
> 
> ...




Yeah, that sounds great, GlassEye. I like the concept.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 7, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> I know, my character isn't ready, but I thought I would play the monk




Yep, it's like HolyMan said. His guy seems a little monk-ish, but mechanically, there shouldn't be much toe stepping. No worries.


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 7, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I hope to have the basics of my character done tonight. I'd say today, but I need to mow the lawn and get some stuff done around the house. I wish someone had told me how much work home ownership was...I would have just bought a condo!




Just get rich, and pay someone else to mow your lawn.


----------



## Rhun (Sep 7, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Just get rich, and pay someone else to mow your lawn.




I keep trying, Mal, I keep trying. Know any secrets to that? 

I worked on my barbarian for a good while last night and he is coming along nicely. SHould get him posted today sometime.


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## Rhun (Sep 7, 2009)

Hey Mal, here is my PC. Since I am new to the PF rules, can you look him over and let me know if I missed anything? Also, I spent 2 or 3 gold pieces over average...hope that isn't a big deal.


*ANUNDR VALKRSSON*

Description
Anundr certainly stands out in a crowd. At six and a half feet tall, with broad shoulders and a body of iron-corded muscle, the northman towers over most folk. His youth, though, is all too apparent in his features, which most would consider handsome (if not accompanied by his gruff northern manner). He is fair of skin, and wears his blonde hair long, and dresses simply in the leathers and furs common to his homeland.




[sblock=Credit]Credit to Pixx73 at DeviantArt[/sblock]

Personality & Background
Born and raised in the isolated northern village of Haafinger (Solitude, in common), Anundr was raised quite simply. His family lived on the fringes of the community; as worshippers of Modi in a town where nearly the entire populace revered Woden, his family were often ridiculed for their beliefs. Thus, they eked out a meager living on the edge of town, growing their own crops, and hunting their own game. While not a pleasant life, it taught Anundr to be strong and self sufficient. Tilling earth and cutting would paid physical dividends, and the ridicule and shunning of the fellow villagers strengthened the young warrior’s determination and will to the point of stubbornness.

During Anundr’s eighteenth winter, sickness struck the village, and Anundr’s parents fell victim to its virulence. With nothing left to hold him in the place, Anundr packed his few belongings, and when the spring melt arrived, he left Haafinger.

Anundr has little besides his weapons, armor and clothing, coming from such a meager background. In fact, his last coppers were spent on food, drink, and a night’s stay at the inn where he formed a drunken pact with a group of new companions. With his honor being all he has, the northman is dedicating to honoring this pact, and hopes to earn a few coin at the conclusion of the endeavor.

*Anundr Valkrsson*
*Chaotic Good Human Male*
Barbarian 1

XPs: 

*Stats*
Str	18	(+4) 	(10 points, +2 race)
Dex	14	(+2)	(5 points)
Con	14	(+2)	(5 points)
Int	12	(+1)	(2 points)
Wis	10	(+0)	(0 points)
Cha	08	(-1)	(-2 points)

*General*
HP: 		14	(12 [1st level] + 2 [con])
AC: 		15	(10 base, +3 armor, + 2 dex
--- Touch AC	12
--- Flatfooted	13
Initiative: 	+4	(+2 dex, +2 trait)
Move:		40’	(40’ base)

*Combat*
BAB:			+1
Melee:			+5	
--- Greatsword		+6 (2d6+6/19-20)
--- Warhammer		+5 (1d8+4 or 1d8+6/x3)
Ranged:		+3
--- Throwing Axe 	+3 (1d6+4/x3)

*Saves:*
Fort:	+4	(2 base, + 2 con)
Ref:	+2	(0 base, + 2 dex)
Wil:	+1	(0 base, + 0 wis, +1 trait)

*Skills:*
- (7 total: 4 class, +1 human, +1 int, +1 favored class) -
Acrobatics			+5	(1 rank, +3 trained, +2 dex, -1 ACP)
Climb				+6	(1 rank, +3 trained, +3 str, -1 ACP)
Intimidate			+3	(1 rank, +3 trained, -1 cha)
Knowledge (Nature)		+5	(1 rank, +3 trained, +1 int)
Perception			+4	(1 rank, +3 trained, +0 wis)
Survival				+4	(1 rank, +3 trained, +0 wis)
Swim				+5	(1 rank, +3 trained, +3 str, -2 ACP) 

*Languages:*
- Common
- (Northman)
- Goblin

*Feats:*
- Weapon Focus: Greatsword (1st level)
- Power Attack

*Traits*
- Reactionary
- Indomitable Faith

*Class Features:*
- Fast Movement
- Rage (6 rage points)

*Racial Features:*
- +2 to One Ability
- Medium Size
- Normal Speed
- Bonus Skill Points
- Bonus Feat

*Arms, Armor and Equipment:*
- Studded Leather (25gp, 20lb)
- Greatsword (50gp, 8lb)
- Throwing Axe (8gp, 2lb)
- Warhammer (12gp, 5lb)
- Traveler’s Outfit (1gp, 5lb [worn])
- Backpack (2gp, 2lb)
--- Bedroll (1sp, 5lb)
--- Torches, 12 (12cp, 12lb)
--- Rope, 50’ hemp (1gp, 10lb)
--- Trail rations, 3 days (15sp, 4lb)
--- Waterskin (1gp, 4lb)
- Beltpouch (1gp, 0.5lb)
--- Chalk, 1 piece (1cp, ---)
--- Flint & Steel (1gp, ---)
--- Flask, (3cp, 1.5lb)


----------



## GlassEye (Sep 7, 2009)

That's an awesome piece of art.


----------



## Rhun (Sep 7, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> That's an awesome piece of art.




There are some incredible artists out there. I only wish that I could draw/paint/etc like they do. Unfortunately, not a place where my talent lies.


----------



## jager0727 (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm not promising, but I can dig around a bit and may be able to help you guys. 
My friends and I used to use a mapless system in high school to play when we were at camp (it was easier for various reasons). I don't know if any of it could be of use but I'll see if it's still in the attic anywhere and if you can use anything more power to you
A workable system, I think, would be great for the forums (I think that was from the 2e days though so...)


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 8, 2009)

[sblock=Raven]
*Male Human **Monk** 1* 
*Alignment:* LN
*Deity:* ?
*Region:* South East
*Height:* 5'9''
*Weight:* 170lb
*Hair:* Brown
*Eyes:* Dark-grey
*Skin:* Deep Tanned
*Age:* 21
*XP:* 0

*Str:* 15 (+2) [7 points]
*Dex:* 13 (+1) [3 points]
*Con:* 12 (+1) [3 points]
*Int:* 13 (+1) [3 points]
*Wis:* 17 (+3) [7 points; + 2 racial]
*Cha:* 08 (-1) [-2 points]

*Class and Racial abilities:* 
Bonus Feat: Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.
Skilled: Humans gain one additional skill rank whenever they gain a level.
Flurry of Blows (+1/+1)
  AC Bonus
  Unarmed Strike (1d6)
  Bonus Feats 
  Stunning Fist

*Hit Dice:* 8 (class) +1 (con) +1 (fav class)
*Hit Points:* 10
*AC:* 15 (+3 Wis, +1 Dex, +1 Dodge Feat) [Touch 15, Flat-footed 13]
*Init:* +1 (+1 Dex)
*Speed:* 30ft 

*Saves:*
Fortitude +3 [2 base, +1 Con]
Reflex +4 [+2 base, + 1 Dex, +1 Trait]
Will +5 [+2 base, +3 Wis]

*BAB/CMB:* +0
*CMB:* +2
CMD*:* +6
*Melee Atk:* (Q.Staff) +2 (1d6+3/20/x2)
*Melee Atk (Flurry):* (Unarmed/Q.Staff) +2 (1d6+2/20/x2)
*Ranged Atk:* +1

*Skills:*
Acrobatics: +5 (1 ranks, +1 Dex, +3 Class Skill)
Escape Artist: +5 (1 ranks, +1 Dex, +3 Class Skill) 
Intimidate: +3 (1 ranks, -1 Cha, +3 Class Skill)
Perception: +7 (1 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 Class Skill)
Sense Motive: +7 (1 ranks, +3 Wis, +3 Class Skill)
Stealth: +5 (1 ranks, +1 Dex, +3 Class Skill)


*Feats:*
MB: Stunning Fist
 M1: Dodge
  H: Mobility
 1: Scorpion Style

*Traits:*
 Anatomist
Deft Dodger
 
*Languages:*
Common
?

*Equipment:* Work in progress
Traveler's clothes
Q.Staff
10 Shuriken[FONT=&quot]

Will buy rations when we start the game in game.

*Money:33gp[/sblock]*

 [/FONT]

[sblock=Picture]





[/sblock]

As they moved to the Delve a contemplative human  seemed to be waiting there for them, his simple clothing and walking stick made him appear to be nothing more than a simple commoner, but the way he moved, with fluidity and poise, betrayed his exceptional nature. Mentioning his quest for perfection, he seemed an interesting companion and the others agreed to let him join them.


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 8, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I keep trying, Mal, I keep trying. Know any secrets to that?




I wish, man. I really do.


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 8, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> That's an awesome piece of art.




I had the exact same reaction when I saw it. Great choice, Rhun!


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 8, 2009)

jager0727 said:


> I'm not promising, but I can dig around a bit and may be able to help you guys.
> My friends and I used to use a mapless system in high school to play when we were at camp (it was easier for various reasons). I don't know if any of it could be of use but I'll see if it's still in the attic anywhere and if you can use anything more power to you
> A workable system, I think, would be great for the forums (I think that was from the 2e days though so...)




Sounds great! Anything you would care to share would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 8, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Starting money?




Average starting gold for a monk is 35 gp. Don't spend it all in one place.


----------



## Rhun (Sep 8, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> I had the exact same reaction when I saw it. Great choice, Rhun!




Amazingly enough, it was difficult to find any pics of youngish, blonde haired Norse warrior types. So when I saw that pic, I said to myself "that will serve well!" 

How do the stats look? Did I make any glaring errors?


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 8, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Amazingly enough, it was difficult to find any pics of youngish, blonde haired Norse warrior types. So when I saw that pic, I said to myself "that will serve well!"
> 
> How do the stats look? Did I make any glaring errors?




I haven't had time yet to look over the sheet, but I will later tonight, or perhaps tomorrow. If everybody gets their sheets done soon, we should be able to start an IC thread by the end of the week.


----------



## Rhun (Sep 8, 2009)

Cool, no rush Mal. Just whenever.


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## Walking Dad (Sep 9, 2009)

The traits are here!


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 9, 2009)

Rhun, I looked over Anundr's sheet. My comments...

[sblock]
Overall, I think he looks really great. Just a few small issues I spotted.

1. He should get +4 damage from his Strength with his throwing axe.

2. Flat-footed AC should be 13, I think...excluding the DEX bonus.

3. His Acrobatics and Swim scores both looked one too high. I think this reflective of my inclusion of his ACP from his studded leather armor. My preference is that this be included in total, since he's more likely to be wearing his armor than not. But, please do double check my math.

Otherwise, great job! He can go over into the RG any time.
[/sblock]


----------



## Malvoisin (Sep 9, 2009)

Everyone, how are character sheets coming? Who else is ready for my review?

Please don't forget about the Rogue's Gallery (linked in my sig). So far, only one player has checked in there.


----------



## GlassEye (Sep 9, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Everyone, how are character sheets coming? Who else is ready for my review?
> 
> Please don't forget about the Rogue's Gallery (linked in my sig). So far, only one player has checked in there.




I'm running late  but still working on it (work & class keep interfering with my hobbies!).  No feats are catching my attention; any advice on that matter would be welcome.  Other than that I only have to select a little more gear and type up his appearance/background and then I'll post him here for review.


----------



## Rhun (Sep 9, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Rhun, I looked over Anundr's sheet. My comments...




Made the necessary changes. Will add him to the RG shortly.


----------



## jkason (Sep 9, 2009)

My sorcerer's definitely ready for a look-over. Sorry 'bout that. Link to the post up-thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talkin...form-combat-playtest-pfrpg-3.html#post4922375

I can post that to the RG, as well. Figured I'd wait until I had him smoothed out.

thanks,

jason


----------



## HolyMan (Sep 9, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Everyone, how are character sheets coming? Who else is ready for my review?
> 
> Please don't forget about the Rogue's Gallery (linked in my sig). So far, only one player has checked in there.




Didn't want to post till I had him review let me know when Yuin is good to go.

@GlassEye what are you playing again I can help with a few feat suggestions.

HM


----------



## jkason (Sep 9, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> I'm running late  but still working on it (work & class keep interfering with my hobbies!).  No feats are catching my attention; any advice on that matter would be welcome.  Other than that I only have to select a little more gear and type up his appearance/background and then I'll post him here for review.




If you're still building a cleric, it seems like Selective Channeling is a pretty important feat (so you can exclude enemies if you decide to heal mid-combat).


----------



## Rhun (Sep 9, 2009)

jkason said:


> If you're still building a cleric, it seems like Selective Channeling is a pretty important feat (so you can exclude enemies if you decide to heal mid-combat).





Most cure spells are touch (especially at low levels), so that doesn't seem like it would be the best feat.


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## HolyMan (Sep 9, 2009)

He's playing a cleric really we love clerics what style?

Warrior based
Healing based
Knowledge based
Diplomatic base

So many was to make a great class greater lol

HM


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## GlassEye (Sep 9, 2009)

Hmm...maybe the problem is I'm trying to do too much.  Little bit of warrior, little bit of diplomat, little bit of healer...equals not really good at any of it.  We've got warrior covered so I think I'll reconsider my PC stats and focus more as a healer/knowledge-based priest.

Selective Channeling is a good feat combined with the whole healing burst effects.


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## HolyMan (Sep 9, 2009)

"....."

Yuin moves to take up a protective posture before the learned priest.

OOC: Yuin will watch your back GlassEye


----------



## GlassEye (Sep 9, 2009)

Grazie!

And I promise I won't have a silly, squeaky ventriloquism voice emanate from your bu... err, ears.  Or not too often anyway.


----------



## jkason (Sep 10, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Most cure spells are touch (especially at low levels), so that doesn't seem like it would be the best feat.




If there aren't a lot of undead in the adventure, though, isn't using up the burst-area channelled healing a better choice (since it leaves the other cleric spells unconverted)? Guess that's what I was thinking the feat would help with. I may not fully understand PF channelling, though. I thought it was a separate ability rather than burning your healing spells?

jason


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## jager0727 (Sep 10, 2009)

Alright, I looked guys and basically we were using an right compass point system as though using an aerial view and north was forward to describe things locations with distances in five foot increments (ie: This person is approximately ten feet south-east of you, a tree is twenty feet north and the BBEG is north-west of you approximately thirty feet). This meant you only had to figure things out in those eight directions and everything lay on a straight line from you. If this was changed due to character movement (I don't remember if it was even geometrically possible) an estimation of five or so feet off usually wasn't a big deal and actual initiative style combat usually takes place at fairly close quarters.

We then used a movement point system in which a five feet was one point, and actions had different amounts of points depending on duration, what would be different action types in 3.x. For example a full round action would use all alloted movement points. A multi-round casting time spell would use twice (or three time, etc.) your total.

Each characters total movement points are determined by character speed based on the five foot step for 1 point rule. 

I haven't done the math to figure out what the point totals for different movement speeds and types of actions would be in 3.x but I hope it helps. 

I might figure it out for my own personal curiousity as I bet the action system in 3.x was designed like that origianally and then figured into simpler terms.


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## Rhun (Sep 10, 2009)

jkason said:


> If there aren't a lot of undead in the adventure, though, isn't using up the burst-area channelled healing a better choice (since it leaves the other cleric spells unconverted)? Guess that's what I was thinking the feat would help with. I may not fully understand PF channelling, though. I thought it was a separate ability rather than burning your healing spells?
> 
> jason





You are absolutely right, and it was my mistake. Channeling energy not only harms undead, but heals all living creatures in a 30' radius. So Selective Channeling would be very handy!


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2009)

jager0727 said:


> alright, i looked guys and basically we were using an right compass point system as though using an aerial view and north was forward to describe things locations with distances in five foot increments (ie: This person is approximately ten feet south-east of you, a tree is twenty feet north and the bbeg is north-west of you approximately thirty feet). This meant you only had to figure things out in those eight directions and everything lay on a straight line from you. If this was changed due to character movement (i don't remember if it was even geometrically possible) an estimation of five or so feet off usually wasn't a big deal and actual initiative style combat usually takes place at fairly close quarters.
> 
> We then used a movement point system in which a five feet was one point, and actions had different amounts of points depending on duration, what would be different action types in 3.x. For example a full round action would use all alloted movement points. A multi-round casting time spell would use twice (or three time, etc.) your total.
> 
> ...




*?*

hm


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## Walking Dad (Sep 10, 2009)

My character is here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4925585-post78.html


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## Walking Dad (Sep 10, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> *?*
> 
> hm




I think it is easier to adapt this concept:

SYSTEM REFERENCE DOCUMENT



> Movement in Combat
> The GM decides whether he or she wishes to keep detailed track of movement,  ranges, and distances. In most close-in combat situations, GMs should not worry  about exact speeds and distances — a general idea of the overall situation is  sufficient. Alternatively, GMs can measure ranges in a more abstract fashion:  “you’re behind him and in melee range” or “you can reach her in three rounds, if  you hurry.” The GM should judge how quickly range shifts from relative speeds to  dramatic necessity. For example, in a race between two opponents with equal  speeds, the GM can allow the character who keeps winning Initiative to increase  the gap gradually between him or her and the other runner. ​ ...
> 
> ​Defending Against Multiple  Attacks
> When defending against multiple attacks in a single round, each defence after  the first incurs a cumulative defence roll penalty of -2 penalty: -2 for the  second defence, -4 for the third, -6 for the fourth, etc. This means that even  the greatest fighter may be overwhelmed if badly outnumbered. Remember to  include all relevant Attribute, Skill, Feat, and Defect modifiers. If  successful, the defender blocks, dodges, or otherwise negates the attack, and  suffers no damage. The Extra Defences Attribute allows the character to make a  certain number of additional defences without penalty.




-> Mostly freeform movement

and this instead of the standard flanking rules:

AC Against Multiple  Attacks
When defending against multiple attacks in a single round, each attack after  the first incurs a cumulative AC penalty of -2 penalty: -2 on AC for the  second attack, -4 on AC for the third, -6 for the fourth, etc. This means that even  the greatest fighter may be overwhelmed if badly outnumbered/cornered. Uncanny dodge helps against this. All attacks after the first count as flanking for special abilities (sneak attack, ...).


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> *?*
> 
> hm




Right. I appreciate jager's efforts to dig out that information, but it looks to be more complicated than what I am going for in this particular game.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> I think it is easier to adapt this concept:
> 
> SYSTEM REFERENCE DOCUMENT




Absolutely, WD. This is much more like what I have in mind. Thanks for finding it!


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## Rhun (Sep 10, 2009)

Looks pretty decent. It will be interesting to see how it works in practice!


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## jkason (Sep 10, 2009)

Now, how would those new rules relate to Sneak Attack? Since defenders now start incurring penalties as soon as a second attack starts (regardless of placement), can Rogues similarly Sneak Attack as long as there's one other ally in melee range? 

If not, what constitutes Flanked for purposes of Sneak Attack? 

If so, especially since PF pumps up Sneak Attack's usability and versatility, is that overpowering?

jason


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## Walking Dad (Sep 10, 2009)

On a hunch, we could just be flexible with initiative, so the non-rogue could choose to attack first.

(Problem: Two rogues cannot benefit both from flanking.)

Or we exchange Flanking with the 'Combined Attack' action, that gives two or more characters who attack the same target a +2 to attacks and possibility for sneak attacks.

Just my spontaneous thought. But this is why we want to do a playtest.

--------

I don't think it is overpowered. If one doesn't mind AoO, it isn't hard to  get into flanking position.

New Acrobatics use:

You can move to flank an opponent without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. You cannot use Acrobatics for this, if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5.


```
Situation                                        Base Acrobatics DC*
Move through a threatened area        Opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
Move through an enemy's space         5 + opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
```

 
* This DC is used to avoid an attack of opportunity due to movement. This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round.

--------

The Cthlhu d20 variant just got rid of AoOs, but forced to stop if the movement would incur one. So, you could simply require a double move (including the 5ft step for the threatened sq) to move in flanking position without a roll.

And mobility could be upgraded to just allow for moving not incurring AoOs.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

Looking over character sheets more today...

HolyMan, I checked out Wi Yuin. I'm not sure if you had him entirely finished yet, mechanically, but I took the liberty. If any of the following were issues you just haven't gotten to yet, forgive me.

[sblock=My Comments]
1. When two-weapon fighting with the short swords, the secondary blade should do only 1d6 damage, not 1d6+1.

2. I don't see any traits listed, unless I'm just missing them?

3. What is his favored class? If it's fighter, he can take one more hit point, or one more skill point.

4. FORT save should be +3, including CON bonus.

Everything else looks great. Thanks! Please copy him over to the RG, after looking over these matters. 
[/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2009)

*Favored Class*

Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Prestige Classes) can never be a favored class.

I think the key word here is gains or am I reading it wrong. Let me know I don't think you can get the +1hp or +1sp till lvl2


HM

edit: I should put favored class monk lol


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

Walking Dad, I looked over Raven. Here are my thoughts...

[sblock]

1. His ability scores work out to only an 18 point but right now. It looks like you charged yourself 4 points for his INT of 12, so that should be the discrepancy.

2. You might want to use those extra points for more DEX, because right now, he doesn't qualify for Dodge (minimum DEX of 13)

3. Damage with quarterstaff would be 1d6+3, as he would be using it two-handed.

I think that should be everything, but I will go back over the numbers one more time after the ability scores get sorted out. Thanks!
[/sblock]


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> *Favored Class*
> 
> Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank *each time a character gains a level (including his first level)* cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Prestige Classes) can never be a favored class.
> 
> ...




HM, I read this (bolded red part in particular, emphasis added by me) as including the first level as qualifying for the bonus hp or sp. Not sure about the official word, but this is what I've seen, and this is how I'd like to rule on it. Of course, if you don't _want_ the bonus, I suppose you don't _have_ to take it...


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

Three sheets reviewed, three to go...

jkason, I'll be looking over Nathan in a little while (have a meeting in a minute).

GlassEye, I know you're coming along, thanks for letting us know where you stand.

That leaves Tailspinner, haven't heard from you in a while. How are things coming with your rogue?


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2009)

Wi Yuin is in the RG with the changes made and a few pics 

I didn't take any traits (and yes i took the +1hp for lvl1 nice catch btw) as none appealed to the character I'm trying to build

HM


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## jager0727 (Sep 10, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Absolutely, WD. This is much more like what I have in mind. Thanks for finding it!





I agree, if a group is willing to do things kinda freeform and at the DMs discretion a bit it's definitely easier, that's just a non-mapped interpretation of a map board honetly (with less possible directions)
We always had one or two hard core rules brokers being difficult about DM "cheating" (not that the idea a DM can cheat ever made sense to me)


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

jager0727 said:


> I agree, if a group is willing to do things kinda freeform and at the DMs discretion a bit it's definitely easier, that's just a non-mapped interpretation of a map board honetly (with less possible directions)
> We always had one or two hard core rules brokers being difficult about DM "cheating" (not that the idea a DM can cheat ever made sense to me)




To me, it's not really so much about the DM 'cheating' as it is that there needs to be a consistent way to handle situations that come up where the player's desired action may or may not be successful (or otherwise produce a variable result). That's why there are rules in the first place, in my opinion. Otherwise, in a completely freeform environment, the DM can just make rulings on a whim. That may not always be problematic, but it could raise issues of favoritism. Or it could just make things wildly inconsistent and therefore frustrating to players. Hence, my interest in at least some semblance of structure.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

jkason,

I went ahead and looked over Nathan's sheet...

[sblock]
...and, he looks perfect to me. Nope, can't find anything to question. I almost missed his spells known, but then I saw the separate sblock. Go ahead and copy him over to the RG at your convenience. Well done! 
[/sblock]


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Wi Yuin is in the RG with the changes made and a few pics
> 
> I didn't take any traits (and yes i took the +1hp for lvl1 nice catch btw) as none appealed to the character I'm trying to build
> 
> HM




Looks great, HM! He's all good to start now, and I appreciate the pics. It's okay with me if you don't want to take traits; if you change your mind later, just let me know.


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## GlassEye (Sep 10, 2009)

*IRADIAS MOON-TOUCHED*

Description
Iradias is an oddity.  Tall and thin, his limbs are longer than the norm giving him a stilt-like appearance.  A pale rounded face, mottled and yellowed from a childhood illness, is surrounded by wiry, black hair that wisps about his face like a dark cloud.  The black habit of the priests of Glarias only further emphasizes the paleness of Iradias’ face and creates the illusion of a hovering harvest moon.

Personality & Background
Yrdys Elvhr was born to poor fisherfolk on the backwater banks of the River Turant not far distant from Brindenford.  From an early age Yrdys exhibited a near perfect singing voice.  Too many mouths to feed, the rising debt of the Elvhr family and that angelic voice resulted in the young Yrdys sold for a handful of gold coins.  His purchaser, Baldassare, an aging and eccentric bard, ran an unusual college of music for ‘created’ counter-tenors.  So, Yrdys Elvhr was eclipsed and soon forgotten as he became budding vocalist-in-training Iradias.

Iradias trained for several years under the infamous bards of Baldassare’s college until he was struck by a mysterious illness.  He was tended through the weeks of his illness by an old priestess whose tales of the goddess of the moon, Glarias, seemed to keep his delirium at bay.  His fever passed: Iradias lay wasted and emaciated, his youthful face marred and prematurely aged, but the most devastating effect of the illness was the scarring of his vocal chords.  His once pure voice was now a rasping croak.  Baldassare sought to cut his losses and after the exchange of a handful of silver coins the newly annointed acolyte Iradias was led off to a small temple of Glarias.

Iradias eventually embraced his new vocation with all the enthusiasm he did with the old, mixing it with skills learned from Baldassare.  In time his voice recovered somewhat, though never achieving its previous clarity.

On becoming a sworn priest of Glarias, Iradias decided to investigate a cryptic scripture that referred to ‘the house of chyr da rylla, seat of the new moon’ that he believed indicated a link between his goddess, Glarias, and the Fallen Duchy of Chordille.  So, he travelled to Brindenford where a night of excessive drinking led to a pact and the acquisition of unexpected companions…

*Iradias Moon-touched*
Mendicant-Priest of Glarias, Goddess of the Moon

Male human cleric 1
XP: 0
CG Medium humanoid
Init +1; Senses Perception +2

STATISTICS
Str 12 (+1) (2 pts.)
Dex 12 (+1) (2 pts.)
Con 10 (+0) (0 pts.)
Int 14 (+2) (2 pts. +2 race)
Wis 15 (+2) (7 pts.)
Cha 15 (+2) (7 pts.)

DEFENSES
HP 8 (1d8)  Current HP: 8
AC 15 (10 base, +3 armor, +1 shield, +1 dex)
--Touch AC 11
--Flat-footed AC 14
Fort +2 (2 base, +0 con)
Ref +1 (0 base, +1 dex)
Will +4 (2 base, +2 wis)
+2 saves vs. charm & compulsion
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. w/ medium enc.)

OFFENSE
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 12
Melee +1
-- light mace +1 (1d6+1/x2)
-- touch +1 (-/-)
Ranged +1
-- dart +1 (1d4/x2)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 7/day (1d6, DC 12)
Domain Spell-Like Abilities
--- Lore-Keeper (18)
--- Bit of Luck 5/day
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 1st)
--- 1st—Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith, True Strike (D)
--- 0—Guidance, Light, Stabilize
D domain spell (Knowledge, Luck)

Feats Extra Channeling, Selective Channeling
Skills – 2 base, +2 Int, +1 favored class, +1 human
Diplomacy +6 (1 rank, +2 cha, +3 class)
Heal +6 (1 rank, +2 wis, +3 class)
Knowledge (religion)+6 (1 rank, +2 int, +3 class)
Knowledge (local) +6 (1 rank, +2 int, +3 class)
Perform (sing) +7 (1 rank, +2 cha, +3 class, +1 trait)
Sense Motive +6 (1 rank, +2 wis, +3 class)

Languages Common, Celestial, Goblin
SQ Aura: faint Good & Chaos
Traits Birthmark  (+2 trait bonus on saves vs. charm and compulsion effects)
Child of Infamy (+1 trait bonus on Perform: Sing; Perform: Sing is a class skill)
Favored Class Cleric

Arms, Armor, and Equipment (medium encumbrance)
- Studded leather (25gp, 20lbs.)
- Buckler (15gp, 5lbs.)
- Light mace (5gp, 4lbs.)
- Dart x3 (15sp, 1.5lbs.)
- Traveler’s Outfit (1gp, 5lb [worn])
- Holy symbol, silver (25gp, 1lb.)
- Backpack (2gp, 2lb)
--- Healer’s kit (10) (50gp, 1lb.)
--- Bedroll (1sp, 5lb)
--- Trail rations, 3 days (15sp, 4lb)
--- Waterskin (1gp, 4lb)
- Beltpouch (1gp, 0.5lb)
11 gp, 9 sp


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2009)

I 'd say he's ready for an IC thread but since he doesn't say anything it would be pointless for a bunch of quiet posts lol

HM

yes I thought a reminder that he has a samurai jack hat was neccesary


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

So, I've been doing some thinking about the issue of flanking as raised earlier. I'll get to that, but let's talk about some more general movement concepts first.

My proposal is that for any combat encounter, I'll enumerate the visible enemies, and specify what direction (one of the eight cardinal compass directions) they are relative to the party's position. Also, I'll specify a general distance category (really close, close, moderate, far, really far). If a character has a movement of 40+ they can reach enemies at moderate range with a standard move. If movement is 30+ you can reach someone close in a standard move. If movement is 20+ you can reach someone really close with a standard move. With a full round move action, you can extend your range one category further.

If you close to within striking distance of an enemy, you are considered to be engaged in melee with that enemy (and vice versa, unless Reach is involved...we'll get to that later). If engaged in melee, you will incur attacks of opportunity for spell casting, use of ranged weapons, and other activities as specified in normal OGL rules. I would like to eliminate the 5' step, so we'll need to discuss how to withdraw from a melee engagement if desired, whether such activity incurs an AOO, and whether it would be a standard or full round action. There needs to be some mechanism in place, otherwise casters will be in trouble.

I like the idea of 'ganging up' as proposed by Walking Dad. I'd like to use a cumulative +2 attack bonus to each addtional character who attacks the same foe. But, I'm not sure this should automatically constitute an opportunity for sneak attack damage, as it does seem a bit overpowered to me. I think I'd rather rule that rogues have to move a bit more precisely (akin to the older concept of 'backstabbing') to get a chance for sneak attack damage. I agree that this should call for an Acrobatics check to avoid AOO's.

So...brainstorm with me, guys. What do you think so far? Nothing is set in stone, so let me hear your ideas!


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2009)

Tactical movement is used for combat. Characters generally don't walk during combat, for obvious reasons—they hustle or run instead. A character who moves his speed and takes some action is hustling for about half the round and doing something else the other half.
Table: Hampered MovementConditionAdditional Movement CostDifficult terrain×2Obstacle*×2Poor visibility×2Impassable—* May require a skill check
Hampered Movement: Difficult terrain, obstacles, and poor visibility can hamper movement (see Table: Hampered Movement for details). When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move. 
If more than one hampering condition applies, multiply all additional costs that apply. This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling. 
In some situations, your movement may be so hampered that you don't have sufficient speed even to move 5 feet (1 square). In such a case, you may use a full-round action to move 5 feet (1 square) in any direction, even diagonally. Even though this looks like a 5-foot step, it's not, and thus it provokes attacks of opportunity normally. (You can't take advantage of this rule to move through impassable terrain or to move when all movement is prohibited to you.)
You can't run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement.

*And let's not forget conditions I'm sure the dungeon a day is not all level ground and open spaces.*

*But I belive you are on the right track all encounters start at a certain distance, so that's where we should start.*

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 10, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> My proposal is that for any combat encounter, I'll enumerate the visible enemies, and specify what direction (one of the eight cardinal compass directions) they are relative to the party's position. Also, I'll specify a general distance category (really close, close, moderate, far, really far). If a character has a movement of 40+ they can reach enemies at moderate range with a standard move. If movement is 30+ you can reach someone close in a standard move. If movement is 20+ you can reach someone really close with a standard move. With a full round move action, you can extend your range one category further.




Sounds good so far.



Malvoisin said:


> If you close to within striking distance of an enemy, you are considered to be engaged in melee with that enemy (and vice versa, unless Reach is involved...we'll get to that later). If engaged in melee, you will incur attacks of opportunity for spell casting, use of ranged weapons, and other activities as specified in normal OGL rules. I would like to eliminate the 5' step, so we'll need to discuss how to withdraw from a melee engagement if desired, whether such activity incurs an AOO, and whether it would be a standard or full round action. There needs to be some mechanism in place, otherwise casters will be in trouble.




There is a mechanism in place. The _withdraw_ action. Allows you to retreat from combat without provoking an AoO.



Malvoisin said:


> I like the idea of 'ganging up' as proposed by Walking Dad. I'd like to use a cumulative +2 attack bonus to each addtional character who attacks the same foe. But, I'm not sure this should automatically constitute an opportunity for sneak attack damage, as it does seem a bit overpowered to me. I think I'd rather rule that rogues have to move a bit more precisely (akin to the older concept of 'backstabbing') to get a chance for sneak attack damage. I agree that this should call for an Acrobatics check to avoid AOO's.




I like the rules for ganging up, at least the +2 per additional enemy. It helps maintain the "realism" that one swordsman (despite his skill) should certainly be hard pressed against three or four enemies. I think stating that the rogue has to use precise movement and an acrobats check would be ideal...since nobody is going to just let someone get behind them during combat.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 10, 2009)

Rhun said:


> There is a mechanism in place. The _withdraw_ action. Allows you to retreat from combat without provoking an AoO.




LOL, upon rereading what I wrote, it does sound silly doesn't it? I suppose what I meant is something more like a partial withdrawal. That is, if we do away with the 5' step, will there be any means for, say, a caster to safely cast a spell (without provoking an AOO) once he has been engaged in melee? Or should we keep the 5' step (or some equivalent...'sidestep' maybe'...the literal 5' step makes no sense in a mapless combat after all)?


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 10, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> That leaves Tailspinner, haven't heard from you in a while. How are things coming with your rogue?




Still working on fluff, but here is crunch:

[sblock]Zooey Heimlich
Female Human Rogue 1
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Age: 16
Height: 6’-1”
Weight: 145#
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black
Skin: Fair

Str: 13 (+1) 3 pts 
Dex: 20 (+5) 17 pts, +2 race
Con: 10 (+0) 0 pts
Int: 10 (+0) 0 pts
Wis: 10 (+0) 0 pts
Cha: 10 (+0) 0 pts

Hit Points: 6
AC: 18 (+3 armor, +5 Dex) Touch: 15, Flat: 13
Init: +5

BAB: +0
CMB: +1
CMD: 16
Speed: 30'

Saves:
Fort +0 (+0 base, +0 Con)
Ref +7 (+2 base, +5 Dex)
Will +0 (+0 base, +0 Wis)

+6 Melee, MW Rapier, 1d6+1, 18-20/x2, Piercing
+5 Ranged, Hand Crossbow, 1d4, 19-20/x2, Piercing, 30’

Skills:
Acrobatics +9 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +5 Dex)
Climb +5 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +1 Str)
Disable Device +9 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +5 Dex)
Escape Artist +9 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +5 Dex)
Linguistics +4 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +0 Int)
Perception +4 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +0 Wis)
Ride +6 (1 Ranks, +0 TCB, +5 Dex)
Sleight of Hand +9 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +5 Dex)
Stealth +9 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +5 Dex)
Swim +5 (1 Ranks, +3 TCB, +1 Str)

Language: Common, Dwarven

Feats:
Combat Reflexes (1st level)
Weapon Finesse (race bonus 1st level)

Traits: Fencer, Rich Parents

Class Abilities: Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding.

Racial Abilities: Bonus feat, skilled, weapon training.

Equipment:
Traveler’s Outfit (0gp, 0#, worn)
Signet Ring (5gp, 0#, worn)
MW Studded Leather (175gp, 20#, worn)
MW Rapier (320gp, 2#, belt)
Backpack (2gp, 2#, back)
Hand Crossbow (100gp, 2#, pack)
Hand Crossbow Bolts [30] (3gp, 3#, pack)
MW Thieves’ Tools (100gp, 2#, pack)
Everburning Torch (110gp, 1#, pack)
Bedroll (1sp, 5#, pack)
Silk Rope (20gp, 10#, pack)
Sacks [2] (2sp, 1#, pack)
Treasure (18pp/9gp/7sp, 1#, pack)
Total (1050gp, 49#)

Encumbrance: 50#/100#/150#/300#/750#[/sblock]


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## Rhun (Sep 10, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> LOL, upon rereading what I wrote, it does sound silly doesn't it? I suppose what I meant is something more like a partial withdrawal. That is, if we do away with the 5' step, will there be any means for, say, a caster to safely cast a spell (without provoking an AOO) once he has been engaged in melee? Or should we keep the 5' step (or some equivalent...'sidestep' maybe'...the literal 5' step makes no sense in a mapless combat after all)?




That is a good question. Of course, if we do away with it, that does allow a lot more use of Concentration for Casting Defensively.


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## jkason (Sep 10, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> I like the idea of 'ganging up' as proposed by Walking Dad. I'd like to use a cumulative +2 attack bonus to each addtional character who attacks the same foe. But, I'm not sure this should automatically constitute an opportunity for sneak attack damage, as it does seem a bit overpowered to me. I think I'd rather rule that rogues have to move a bit more precisely (akin to the older concept of 'backstabbing') to get a chance for sneak attack damage. I agree that this should call for an Acrobatics check to avoid AOO's.




It seems to me that requiring an Acrobatics check to flank removes the previously-available option of just taking longer to get in place for a flank. True, rogues are more likely to have the ranks to do that, but it seems slightly unfair to require them to take ranks in that particular skill to effectively use an unrelated class ability (and it seems to me there are probably other feats / abilities that might use Flanking, which might further complicate forced Acrobatics).

Since we're going with the powered up 'gang' concept, though, maybe a trade-off to 'activate' sneak attack? As is, if the rogue Flanked and there were two other allies in melee, he'd get a +4 to an attack that before generally never got more than a +2.

Since conceptually Sneak Attack is supposed to be a more precise hit to a harder-to-reach area, what if Rogues can activate Sneak attack by trading off (at least) +2 of a 'group attack' bonus? They give up the standard bonus they'd get with Flanking rules for the ability to use it without a strategic limitation on where they are in relation to allies.

Just a thought. I'm horrible at working out how the math in these sorts of things is supposed to achieve balance, so feel free to pitch this to the side if I'm thowing things out of whack.


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 10, 2009)

Range Increments: engaged, adjacent, near, really close, close, moderate, far, really far, distant.

5-foot step is replaced with "step away".

If someone is "engaged" with an enemy they can "step away" to "adjacent".

Since rogues must "move precisely" to get a chance to get a sneak attack in, their movement decreases by a step.

Thus a rogue who has a movement of 20+ could reach someone that is "near" in a standard round if "moving precisely".


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 10, 2009)

Also instead of using an actual measure for base speed such as 30 feet, abstract that as well. Perhaps:

1' - 10' : Very Slow
11' - 20' : Slow
21' - 30' : Average
31' - 40' : Fast
41' - 50' : Quick
51' - 60' : Speedy


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## Rhun (Sep 10, 2009)

Tailspinner said:


> 1' - 10' : Very Slow
> 11' - 20' : Slow
> 21' - 30' : Average
> 31' - 40' : Fast
> ...




Go to ludicrous speed!


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2009)

"They've gone plaid."

Hey are we making a whole new set of rules or using the exsisting ones and trying to play out combat without the grid?

HM


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 11, 2009)

HolyMan;4929443Hey are we making a whole new set of rules or using the exsisting ones and trying to play out combat without the grid?[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> I believe we are brainstorming ideas...


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

Tailspinner said:


> I believe we are brainstorming ideas...




Absolutely right! And please, keep the ideas coming.

But, to the point of HolyMan's question, my hope is to lean far more to the latter than the former. There is, after all, a reason why I don't make my living as a game designer...I'm not that good at it.

As I think more about the movement and distance question, I think it might be just as easy to say something like, "There is a group of six zombies shambling toward the party. They are about 40 feet to the northwest." If your guy can cover the 40 feet in a single move action, he can start laying into them. This way, we can just keep thinking in terms of regular movement, instead of creating whole new rules subsets and distance categories.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

I've been thinking alot about the 5' step issue. I'm starting to lean more toward leaving it alone. We could just assume a 5' step is possible, unless there are extenuating circumstances, which I would tell you about. e.g., a battle taking place on difficult terrain, or in extremely cramped quarters.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

jkason said:


> It seems to me that requiring an Acrobatics check to flank removes the previously-available option of just taking longer to get in place for a flank.




What about having two options...

1. A standard move action, plus Acrobatics check vs. AOOs to get into position.

2. A full round move action to get into position that does not incur AOOs (in my mind's eye, I envision circling around warily in a defensive posture).


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## HolyMan (Sep 11, 2009)

Let me see if i can answer a few questions that i have missed.

1)I would love the old school feel of there are zombies 40 feet away what do you do? maybe to help we should list movement speeds in character sheet you know normal, charge, run, climb, fly, swim, runx2,run x4 then we can say I charge the zombies or I run x4 away then the only math is 

ok zombies are 40 feet away Yuin runs 120, zombies move 30 so end of the round Yuin is 130 ft away (hey I just used x+y=z for the first time since high school, they said I would need that stuff in the real world)

2)Please do not take out the 5' step it is the corner stone of tactical advantage in D&D since it's invention models don't stand toe to toe anymore they shift around trying to get a better vantage point on the other guy

3)[qoute]2. A full round move action to get into position that does not incur AOOs (in my mind's eye, I envision circling around warily in a defensive posture). [/quote] Or you could use total defense and move 

HM


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## Walking Dad (Sep 11, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Walking Dad, I looked over Raven. Here are my thoughts...
> 
> [sblock]
> 
> ...



[sblock]

1. & 2. Have made the changes. Dodge was legit before, because the monk can ignore the prerequisites of his bonus feats.

3. You are right. But +2 in a Flurry. Noted.

Everything should be alright now.
[/sblock]


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## Walking Dad (Sep 11, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Absolutely right! And please, keep the ideas coming.
> 
> But, to the point of HolyMan's question, my hope is to lean far more to the latter than the former. There is, after all, a reason why I don't make my living as a game designer...I'm not that good at it.
> 
> As I think more about the movement and distance question, I think it might be just as easy to say something like, "There is a group of six zombies shambling toward the party. They are about 40 feet to the northwest." If your guy can cover the 40 feet in a single move action, he can start laying into them. This way, we can just keep thinking in terms of regular movement, instead of creating whole new rules subsets and distance categories.



Your example reminds me of the charge action. Should it also add one distance category?




Malvoisin said:


> I've been thinking a lot about the 5' step issue. I'm starting to lean more toward leaving it alone. We could just assume a 5' step is possible, unless there are extenuating circumstances, which I would tell you about. e.g., a battle taking place on difficult terrain, or in extremely cramped quarters.



Sounds alright. We could just call it shift. Let's steal the good stuff of 4e.



Malvoisin said:


> What about having two options...
> 
> 1. A standard move action, plus Acrobatics check vs. AOOs to get into position.
> 
> 2. A full round move action to get into position that does not incur AOOs (in my mind's eye, I envision circling around warily in a defensive posture).



That was my idea. But I thought of two move actions. But this is virtually the same.


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## Rhun (Sep 11, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> What about having two options...
> 
> 1. A standard move action, plus Acrobatics check vs. AOOs to get into position.
> 
> 2. A full round move action to get into position that does not incur AOOs (in my mind's eye, I envision circling around warily in a defensive posture).





I like this Mal. I think the two options are a great way to handle this.


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## jkason (Sep 11, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> What about having two options...
> 
> 1. A standard move action, plus Acrobatics check vs. AOOs to get into position.
> 
> 2. A full round move action to get into position that does not incur AOOs (in my mind's eye, I envision circling around warily in a defensive posture).




I think this is probably the right way to go, in that it leaves the previous options in place while still eliminating the need to 'grid it,' as it were.

I know we're still talking about movement itself, but I figured while we're brainstorming I'd throw in that we'll need at some point to deal with ranged attacks and area / shaped attacks. Figuring cover / concealment may be less precise without a map, though I suspect that's probably the least problematic. Likewise attacks which can only affect multiple targets when they are within X ft of each other can probably be worked out without a lot of brain wracking. I mention them, though, because however easy it might be, we'll have to deal with them in some manner.

Mostly, though, I had started thinking about things like cone attacks and burst/splash effects. I know in the past I've had to do a lot of grid counting to make sure not to catch party members in one of the above-mentioned attacks. Without a map, I'm not sure how that sort of thing would be dealt with? I certainly don't think allies not in direct melee should be immediately free of the area, but I'm not sure how to determine the threatened area?


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## Walking Dad (Sep 11, 2009)

You are right, after movement and positioning, area effects are the next big thing to tackle...


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

For murky issues like 'If I toss a fireball across the room, how many of the enemies will it hit, and how many of my friends are at risk?', I am thinking of adopting a 'best-case scenario' kind of thinking. That is to say, if the bad guys are relatively clustered up, it will hit all (or nearly all) of them. For allies that haven't closed to engage in melee, they should be safe. So, in general, anything you want to do that requires careful consideration of movement/positioning, would be easier to do. 

Further thinking, this time with straight line effects...A player post could be something like, 'I want to move to the most advantageous position, and unleash a lightning bolt on the ogres that doesn't hit any allies, and doesn't subject me to any AOO's.' And I'll come back with 'Your lightning bolt surges across the room and lights up two of the brutes for x damage.' Maybe if things are desperate, you could post, 'I want to hit the maximum number of ogres, even if it I might incur an AOO...or even if it might catch Anundr...or both. This introduces an element of uncertainty, but is that such a bad thing?

Of course, the caveat is, all of the above would apply to the bad guys too. So, in general, combats will be rather more dangerous for both sides.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

You guys are right, we'll leave in the 5' step. You can call it that, or 'shift' or whatever you want. I'm not too caught up in semantics.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Your example reminds me of the charge action. Should it also add one distance category?




I don't think we need to worry about that. Charging should be relatively easy to handle. With a clear path, and room to build up a head of steam, you can charge. The trade off of attack bonus for AC penalty seems to balance it out fine.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

Last two sheets to review!

GlassEye, you're up first...

[sblock]
Actually, Iradias looks great! The only discrepancy I saw is that I think he can take the +1 damage bonus from his strength when throwing darts. Everything else looks perfect! Please copy him over into the RG at your convenience.
[/sblock]


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

Tailspinner, last but not least, my comments on Zooey's sheet...

[sblock]
Great job here, the only problem I can see is that rogues in the Pathfinder system actually have a d8 hit die, so she should have 8 hit points. Everything else looks perfect! Please copy her over to the RG when you can. Thanks!
[/sblock]


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## Malvoisin (Sep 11, 2009)

Walking Dad, Raven is ready to start now! Go ahead and copy him over into the RG when you can.

Actually, we're pretty much ready to get an IC thread started! I don't think it will happen today, but this weekend should be possible. For those who haven't yet staked out a spot on the Rogues Gallery, please do so when you can. Thanks!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 12, 2009)

It only just dawned on me that the party is composed of six humans!

There's probably some affirmative action group for demihumans mobilizing a protest right about now...


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## Rhun (Sep 12, 2009)

You don't see that very often (unless it is one of JA's games, since his homebrew is not very nice to demihumans).


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## jkason (Sep 12, 2009)

I almost always play humans (though technically, given his background, Nathan is half-Celestial ).  I like the idea of demi-humans, but I'll admit to having a natural hesitancy to a build with inherent penalties on ability scores. I know those penalties come with extra bonuses, but then you add in the extra feat (especially if I'm building a 1st level / low level character, which is most of the builds I've done) and skill points, and humans just wind up being more appealing to me. 

I think part of it's my inability to optimize in the first place. I think a lot of my builds have big flaws better folks would notice (heck, even when I'm _trying_ to make someone The Best at something, they generally only wind up being Pretty Good at it), and I guess I worry that added penalties out of the gate would have me managing to build someone who was basically only good for target practice.


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## Rhun (Sep 12, 2009)

Demi-humans can be a lot of fun to play. I regularly play elves and dwarves. The little people, though, like halflings and gnomes, I rarely ever play. I think I have one gnome PC right now, but no halflings.


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## jkason (Sep 12, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Demi-humans can be a lot of fun to play. I regularly play elves and dwarves. The little people, though, like halflings and gnomes, I rarely ever play. I think I have one gnome PC right now, but no halflings.




Conceptually I really like halflings (fiesty little folk just seem neat for whatever reason), but between the racial penalty and the various damage / speed / carrying reductions that being a small creature comes with, I'd probably only try one if I was creating a mid- to high level character, since then I could give them some magic equipment / spells that might counteract that.


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## Rhun (Sep 12, 2009)

Halflings make good arcane casters and rogues.


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## Walking Dad (Sep 13, 2009)

And druids


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## Malvoisin (Sep 13, 2009)

Cool, we have a fully populated Rogues Gallery!

IC thread should go live this afternoon.


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## HolyMan (Sep 13, 2009)

i have to be at work in an hour and a 1/2  so sad

Don't have to much fun without me will be on after 8pm tonight

HM

p.s.(if a combat insues will hold action let someone get in close use AO at ten feet then shift? 5' step? back and use it on my turn go ahead and roll for me and hey at least you can sound like Yuin when you "talk" for him "...." lol)


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## Malvoisin (Sep 13, 2009)

Hey all, 

Just before kicking off the IC thread, allow me to present each PC with a couple of rumors. That's right, OLD SCHOOL STYLE! These may have been things picked up in your time at Brindenford, or they may have been whisperings heard way back in your homeland...perhaps the very reason you sought out the dungeon in the first place. Now, are they true or false? Only time will tell. 

Enjoy!

[sblock=Anundr]
1. A paladin named Baine Strongbow was slain in Brindenford by assassins after driving off a powerful spellcasting hag that lives in Dragon's Delve. His potent sword, Grace, was stolen and now lies somewhere in the dungeon.

2. Within the dungeon lies an umber hulk king that seeks to raise an army and invade the lands above.[/sblock]

[sblock=Iradias]
1. The Bestial Host serve the Beast God, a savage and terrible deity that demands blood and violence. The host has a strange fascination with Dragon's Delve.

2. There is a magical pool in the dungeon once sacred to Glarias the Moon Goddess but it is now cursed and poisonous.[/sblock]

[sblock=Wi Yuin]
1. Deep within Dragon's Delve lies a training dojo built by Master Mui Yan in his exile from his own far off homeland. Anyone finding it can still, to this day, learn otherwise forbidden fighting styles.

2. Portions of Dragon's Delve intersect with a mystical matrix called the wendways that allow one to slip between the spaces between spaces--but at a spiritual cost.[/sblock]

[sblock=Raven]
1. The artifacts known as Sao's Bones lies in a vault somewhere within Dragon's Delve. Supposedly, these dice control some aspect of cause and effect on a fundamental level.

2. A temple to the demon goddess of medusas lies in Dragon's Delve, which includes egress to the terrible plane upon which the goddess herself can be found.[/sblock]

[sblock=Nathan]
1. Somewhere within the winding confines of Dragon's Delve lies a magical portal to the lost island of Khorant. No other means exists to reach this mysterious locale located somewhere on the Sea of Eternal Storms.

2. The infamous Mages Four controlled all of the dungeon at one time, using it for their strange experiments and to house their otherworldly allies and servitors.[/sblock]

[sblock=Zooey]
1. If you find the three carpets of Tral-Ferrer and put them together, they reveal some secret about Dragon's Delve.

2. If one delves very deep into Dragon's Delve, one may discover the hidden tomb of the sorcerer-priest Orr, filled with great treasures but guarded by some of the deadliest traps ever devised.[/sblock]


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## Malvoisin (Sep 13, 2009)

And, we're live! 

IC Thread here!

Let's make it a great game.


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## Rhun (Sep 13, 2009)

One small concern...how did Tailspinner's PC get over 1000 gold pieces worth of gear?

Nevermind...rich parents trait must have done it. That's a pretty nice trait for a low level PC.


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## Walking Dad (Sep 14, 2009)

(Take a look at my new chara pic here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4931318-post9.html)


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## Malvoisin (Sep 14, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> (Take a look at my new chara pic here:
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/4931318-post9.html)




Interesting!

Here's a fun observation about the party...five of the PCs are Chaotic Good, one is Lawful Neutral. Good times.


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## Rhun (Sep 15, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Interesting!
> 
> Here's a fun observation about the party...five of the PCs are Chaotic Good, one is Lawful Neutral. Good times.




Very interesting. I usually don't play Chaotic Good, but it seems fitting for a free-wheelin' barbarian from the north.


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## HolyMan (Sep 15, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> (Take a look at my new chara pic here:
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/4931318-post9.html)




Awesome pic he looks like a character I would love to play!!! Glad he's not oriental Yuin may learn something from the western monk.


HM


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## Walking Dad (Sep 15, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Interesting!
> 
> Here's a fun observation about the party...five of the PCs are Chaotic Good, one is Lawful Neutral. Good times.



He has at least good tendencies. 



HolyMan said:


> Awesome pic he looks like a character I would love to play!!! Glad he's not oriental Yuin may learn something from the western monk.
> HM



Thanks. The picture is from the upcoming Diablo 3 computer game. You can say what you will about it, but the art is nice.
And yes, I vastly prefer non-Asian monks. First idea was an African style monk.


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## Rhun (Sep 15, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> And yes, I vastly prefer non-Asian monks. First idea was an African style monk.




Agreed. I definitely prefer non-Asian monks.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 15, 2009)

I think it would be useful to get a sense of general party positioning, maybe by using a system of ranks...up front, in the middle, or in the rear.

If everybody could please indicate his character's preferred placement, that would be helpful. You know, just in case combat breaks out soon, or something.


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## Rhun (Sep 15, 2009)

Front for Anundr.


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## jkason (Sep 15, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> I think it would be useful to get a sense of general party positioning, maybe by using a system of ranks...up front, in the middle, or in the rear.
> 
> If everybody could please indicate his character's preferred placement, that would be helpful. You know, just in case combat breaks out soon, or something.




heh. This would be why Nathan spoke up. Gotta love self-preserving pessimists. So, yeah, Nathans' planning to be in the middle if there are no other objections.


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## Rhun (Sep 15, 2009)

jkason said:


> heh. This would be why Nathan spoke up. Gotta love self-preserving pessimists. So, yeah, Nathans' planning to be in the middle if there are no other objections.




Put him in the front!


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## GlassEye (Sep 15, 2009)

Iradias in the middle, please.


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 15, 2009)

Zooey in the back.


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## HolyMan (Sep 16, 2009)

"...."

Yuin walks off in front of the group not looking back to see if anyone else is following.


OOC: What did I give him for wisdom???? Hey is there an IC I thought I saw an IC thread???


HM


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## Walking Dad (Sep 16, 2009)

Raven in the back for security, but wants to move to the front when the battle is joined.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 16, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> OOC: What did I give him for wisdom???? Hey is there an IC I thought I saw an IC thread???
> 
> 
> HM




Um, yes. Since Sunday, actually.


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## Rhun (Sep 16, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Um, yes. Since Sunday, actually.




That's a failure on Holy Man's spot check!


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## HolyMan (Sep 16, 2009)

sorry told you I waould be busy Sunday at work and then Monday and then Tuesday finally off today to catch up on threads and experience points and checking pixies ewww.. but lovin' it lol 

So I haven't missed much do we need a marching order??

@Rhun spot check = -10  hey think you were right I did fail 

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 16, 2009)

No worries HolyMan. We all have busy days from time to time!


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## HolyMan (Sep 16, 2009)

Rhun said:


> No worries HolyMan. We all have busy days from time to time!




Thanks I shouldn't have volunteered to work yesterday (yuck) but a girl at work need off. I will be getting all caught up on everything today already have Yuin following Anunbr[sp?] down the steps 

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 16, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Thanks I shouldn't have volunteered to work yesterday (yuck) but a girl at work need off. I will be getting all caught up on everything today already have Yuin following Anunbr[sp?] down the steps
> 
> HM




*Anundr* - Old Norse Viking name composed of the elements anu  "ancestor; forefather," and undr  "to prevail; triumph," hence "triumph of the ancestors."


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## Malvoisin (Sep 16, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> So I haven't missed much do we need a marching order??




It's cool, man. I didn't mean to be short with you. I'm a bit stressed because I have an exam tonight. And, you're right, you didn't miss much.

I don't think a precise marching order is needed, just knowing that Wi Yuin gravitates toward the front of the party should be sufficient. 



Rhun said:


> *Anundr* - Old Norse Viking name composed of the elements anu  "ancestor; forefather," and undr  "to prevail; triumph," hence "triumph of the ancestors."




Cool name origin, Rhun!


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## HolyMan (Sep 16, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> It's cool, man. I didn't mean to be short with you. I'm a bit stressed because I have an exam tonight. And, you're right, you didn't miss much.




No problem I was waiting to see a post that said the IC is here or something like that lol thats why I was surprised when it was in your signature and remember if I fall behind go ahead and take over Yuin he doesn't say much let's his actions speak for him. LOL

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 16, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Cool name origin, Rhun!




I've got a bunch of sites I try to use to come up with names. Sometimes they work well!


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## Malvoisin (Sep 16, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> No problem I was waiting to see a post that said the IC is here or something like that lol thats why I was surprised when it was in your signature and remember if I fall behind go ahead and take over Yuin he doesn't say much let's his actions speak for him. LOL
> 
> HM




I think I did post it, a couple of pages back. 

Oh, and right before that, I also gave each PC a couple of rumors, so if you missed that, it's definitely worth checking out.


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## HolyMan (Sep 16, 2009)

I went to work sunday came back and missed a whole page of posts talk about a botched spot check...

Ok I have my rumors thank you and will copy/paste to my character sheet 

GTG 

HM


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## Malvoisin (Sep 16, 2009)

I went ahead and created a rumors section in the first post of the Rogues Gallery, to make them easy for everyone to find.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 17, 2009)

There will be a new IC post up later tonight, after my exam!


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## GlassEye (Sep 17, 2009)

New IC post: excellent.  Exam: not so good.  What subject, if I may be a bit nosy?


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## Malvoisin (Sep 17, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> New IC post: excellent.  Exam: not so good.  What subject, if I may be a bit nosy?




The exam went pretty well, actually! It was in Therapeutics. I'm in the fifth year of a six-year PharmD program.


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## GlassEye (Sep 17, 2009)

Glad to hear it went well.  Not long and you'll be a professional D pharmer!


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## HolyMan (Sep 17, 2009)

Ok first playtest question: How important is it to know where your character is postioned? 

I mean in the regular play it is everything but to what we what to try how important?

We just entered a large room and my first thought was for us to mark where are characters are, like make a grid for the map. But to do it that way takes away from are free-form style so my next question is.. Do we go old school here? The DM asking each of us in turn-What does your character do? We post all actions we wish to take and the Dm decides how it flows from there?

Hate to slow down the fun  trust me I want to stick something lol

HM


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## Walking Dad (Sep 17, 2009)

I vote for posting something vague (like 'near the entrance') and let the DM do the rest.


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## HolyMan (Sep 17, 2009)

I vote with WD and if I'm not on as i am going to work soon Yuin will be near the south end of the pool.

HM


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## Rhun (Sep 17, 2009)

Agree...something free form, and let the DM decide exact placements. You know, like "Anundr walks about the perimeter of the room, his torch held high, examining the walls." Then Mal can decide exactly where he is when and if anything happens.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 17, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Agree...something free form, and let the DM decide exact placements. You know, like "Anundr walks about the perimeter of the room, his torch held high, examining the walls." Then Mal can decide exactly where he is when and if anything happens.




Right, exactly like this. If we don't want to worry about precise positioning for combats, we certainly don't want to mess with such when out of combat.

If something unexpected should occur, I'll determine as fairly as possible which PCs would be affected. Of course, the more detail you guys put in your posts, the easier that will make that for me.


----------



## jkason (Sep 17, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Right, exactly like this. If we don't want to worry about precise positioning for combats, we certainly don't want to mess with such when out of combat.
> 
> If something unexpected should occur, I'll determine as fairly as possible which PCs would be affected. Of course, the more detail you guys put in your posts, the easier that will make that for me.




You know, this might point to a new wrinkle we should consider, especially since we have a rogue checking for traps. If there's no exact positioning, does time / rolling for trapfinding checks change in any significant way? 

jason


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## Malvoisin (Sep 17, 2009)

jkason said:


> You know, this might point to a new wrinkle we should consider, especially since we have a rogue checking for traps. If there's no exact positioning, does time / rolling for trapfinding checks change in any significant way?
> 
> jason




I think I will go ahead and assume that you are always 'Taking 10' on Perception checks as you move around (assuming you're in exploration mode, and not run for your lives mode.) Having said that, you should still call for Perception rolls on a regular basis, because this dungeon has lots of hidden things that are well worth finding. Taking 10 won't always cut it, especially at low levels where your Perception mods are pretty low. You guys will miss a lot of fun stuff if you don't make Perception checks.

That said, you can always Take 20 as well, but I reserve the right to make torches burn out, check your food and water status, and especially consult the wandering monster table if I think you're abusing that.


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## Rhun (Sep 17, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> I think I will go ahead and assume that you are always 'Taking 10' on Perception checks as you move around (assuming you're in exploration mode, and not run for your lives mode.) Having said that, you should still call for Perception rolls on a regular basis, because this dungeon has lots of hidden things that are well worth finding. Taking 10 won't always cut it, especially at low levels where your Perception mods are pretty low. You guys will miss a lot of fun stuff if you don't make Perception checks.




I actually like this idea a lot! I may adapt it into my own games.



Malvoisin said:


> That said, you can always Take 20 as well, but I reserve the right to make torches burn out, check your food and water status, and especially consult the wandering monster table if I think you're abusing that.




This is cool too, though I believe Zooey's everburning torch puts a bit of a damper on things.  I'm all for having torches burn out and have to use food and such. Great ideas, Mal, especially for lower level adventurers.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 17, 2009)

Rhun said:


> This is cool too, though I believe Zooey's everburning torch puts a bit of a damper on things.  I'm all for having torches burn out and have to use food and such. Great ideas, Mal, especially for lower level adventurers.




Okay, so maybe not the torch thing, but you get the idea. 

It's just a bit of a pet peeve of mine when players creep along and take 20 on Search checks (Perception checks now) every...five...feet. There's a time and place for it, but it shouldn't be standard operating procedure, in my view.


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## Guest 11456 (Sep 17, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Ok first playtest question: How important is it to know where your character is postioned?
> 
> I mean in the regular play it is everything but to what we what to try how important?
> 
> ...




This brings up something that I was already wondering about. Since we aren't worried about exact position like in the old 1st edition days, do we need a map? When I played 1st edition back in the day, everything was explained to us by the DM including what would be the map. "...opening the door reveals a 40' by 30' room. You see two other doors in the room. The first appears to be a stout wooden door at the mid point of the oposite wall. The other gleams in your lantern light. It appears to be made of  a shinny metal. It is on the left wall close to the corner near the back. In the middle of the floor lies a stone coffin about 6' by 2' with odd frescos carved into the sides..." If we as players wanted a map we had to draw it ourselves.


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## Rhun (Sep 17, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> It's just a bit of a pet peeve of mine when players creep along and take 20 on Search checks (Perception checks now) every...five...feet. There's a time and place for it, but it shouldn't be standard operating procedure, in my view.




I agree with that completely, but luckily I haven't seen too many cases of that around these parts.


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## jkason (Sep 17, 2009)

Tailspinner said:


> This brings up something that I was already wondering about. Since we aren't worried about exact position like in the old 1st edition days, do we need a map? When I played 1st edition back in the day, everything was explained to us by the DM including what would be the map. "...opening the door reveals a 40' by 30' room. You see two other doors in the room. The first appears to be a stout wooden door at the mid point of the oposite wall. The other gleams in your lantern light. It appears to be made of  a shinny metal. It is on the left wall close to the corner near the back. In the middle of the floor lies a stone coffin about 6' by 2' with odd frescos carved into the sides..." If we as players wanted a map we had to draw it ourselves.




At a tabletop, converting words into a map is relatively simple (you just need graph paper and a pencil, which makes fixes fast and easy, too) and everyone can see it. It's slightly more complicated online. Personally, if Mal has the map and it's not a hardship to post it, I very much benefit by having something visual to get my brain around. 

jason


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## Malvoisin (Sep 17, 2009)

Two comments about the 'exploration map'. 

1. I think it's beneficial to post it, because it will help eliminate confusion. Even if I give detailed descriptions of rooms, there still is likely to be confusion at some point, which is harder to clear up in pbp, as compared to real life. Visualization helps.

2. I just think the maps look cool, and they are fun to post. And, not much trouble either, because the site provides a version of the maps without room numbers and other spoilers.


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## GlassEye (Sep 18, 2009)

Twenty years ago I would've jumped into the pool, drank my fill, and said to hell with the consequences.  Ack!  I've become old when I wasn't looking!

Also, I like getting to see the map.


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## Rhun (Sep 18, 2009)

Anundr really considered hopping in the pool.


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## jkason (Sep 18, 2009)

I've never actually interacted with cursed item rules (and I haven't done much with Detect Magic before), so I'm not sure how thorough Nathan's check actually is at 'clearing' the pool. It looks like, from here that knowing something's cursed makes the check easier, but I'm not sure if what Iradias said constitutes knowing?

I'm not trying to pry any information here so much as asking for some advice from other people who have encountered cursed items before? How 'clear' would you think the pool is normally? I'm inclined not to risk it, myself, but like I said, I have no real experience to base that on.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 18, 2009)

I'll let GlassEye decide how much he wants to reveal about Iradias' knowledge of the pool, and why exactly he believes it to be cursed.

I will say that, whether cursed or not, the pool isn't exactly a 'magic item' and so the RAW for such may not exactly apply.


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## GlassEye (Sep 18, 2009)

Iradias heard somewhere that the pool was cursed and poisoned.  It may be true, it may not be true, it may be only a little true.  I'm assuming the rumor came from the old priestess who trained him.  But she was hopped up on magic mushrooms more than half the time so it could be a load of bull or it could be divine revelation.  Iradias honestly doesn't know but he's got a bit of the flair for the dramatic so he'll assume it's true as long as it suits him or until he gets solid proof one way or the other.

Mechanically, I would guess this doesn't follow RAW and I think that's awesome.  (Sometimes I get tired of being able to calculate out my chance of success to the percentage point.)  However, if it did follow RAW, I would probably guess that Nathan's chances at accurately detecting a curse using _detect magic_ would be small (though Iradias doesn't know this).  Granted, I don't have any current experience (or rules knowledge) to base this on; last time I encountered a magic pool in a dungeon was when I played 1st edition years ago when I was a wee lad and we had to walk to the game uphill.  Both ways.  And every dungeon had two or three or four magic pools just for the wahoo-fun of it all.

Darn it, I've almost got myself convinced to drink from the pool.  After all, what's the worst that could happen?


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## Scott DeWar (Sep 18, 2009)

Your character could *die!* and all that hard work in creating him would be lost. forever!

as as for getting old suddenly, he he he have you looked in the mirror lately? mua ha ha ha ha


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## Rhun (Sep 18, 2009)

First level PCs...not as much hard work goes into them as high level PCs. LOL. But yes, drinking from a poisoned pool could kill you. Or make you stronger.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 18, 2009)

Hey, who invited DeWar into this thread?!

j/k


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## Rhun (Sep 18, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Hey, who invited DeWar into this thread?!




He doesn't have anything better to do. He is our friendly neighborhood EN World stalker.


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## Scott DeWar (Sep 18, 2009)

I was bored, seeing as all the other threads i am in are moving so dang slow.


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## Rhun (Sep 19, 2009)

Ah, the vagaries of play by post.


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## Malvoisin (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey all,

I'm going to need a little time away from ENWorld to sort out some Real Life issues. Hopefully, it will mean only a brief hiatus to the game. Thanks for understanding.

-Mal


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## Rhun (Sep 22, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm going to need a little time away from ENWorld to sort out some Real Life issues. Hopefully, it will mean only a brief hiatus to the game. Thanks for understanding.





RL happens. Thanks for letting us know!


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## HolyMan (Sep 22, 2009)

Yeah trust me I know it does lol (so long as your not incarcerated Mal) I'll be here and Yuin says he will to umm. or would say if he could talk and was real ok nuff blathering what else is going on in the EnWorld??


HM


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## GlassEye (Sep 22, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm going to need a little time away from ENWorld to sort out some Real Life issues. Hopefully, it will mean only a brief hiatus to the game. Thanks for understanding.
> 
> -Mal




I hope you get things worked out to your satisfaction.  And hopefully we'll see you back here soon.  But take all the time you need; we all understand these things happen.

-GE


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## Malvoisin (Oct 8, 2009)

Hey all, I'm thinking I might be able to resume this game in the near future. Is everyone still present and accounted for?


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## jkason (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm here.


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## Rhun (Oct 8, 2009)

Check!


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## Guest 11456 (Oct 8, 2009)

Mate!


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## GlassEye (Oct 8, 2009)

Sono qui!  Ermm...here!


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## HolyMan (Oct 9, 2009)

"........"


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## Walking Dad (Oct 9, 2009)

Here!!


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## Rhun (Oct 9, 2009)

That looks like everyone, right? WOOT!


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## Malvoisin (Oct 9, 2009)

Six for six, and quick too!

I'll see what I can do...


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## Malvoisin (Oct 10, 2009)

Good news guys, a new IC post!

Now, I want to address something with the group (and Tailspinner in particular). You may notice that I assumed that Zooey would search for the secret door, search it for traps, and that the party would make listen checks. I don't necessarily want to overstep my bounds, but I also don't want it to take a week in real time to search each new room. I'd like to have some kind of protocol in place, if we can. With your permission, I will assume that Zooey searches, listens, etc., so we can keep things moving. Comments from everyone welcome.


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## Rhun (Oct 10, 2009)

Sounds like a plan. Though Anundr is the impatient type.


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## HolyMan (Oct 10, 2009)

Yuin will always be alert also just take 10 for his checks as he cautiously moves about the dungeon.

Also are all the squares on the map 10' or 5' squares just wondering how many people are in the serect passageway 

HM


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## Malvoisin (Oct 10, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> Yuin will always be alert also just take 10 for his checks as he cautiously moves about the dungeon.
> 
> Also are all the squares on the map 10' or 5' squares just wondering how many people are in the serect passageway
> 
> HM




10' scale per map square.


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## Malvoisin (Oct 13, 2009)

Guys, let's just assume that anyone can open that secret door, it doesn't have to be Zooey.


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## Rhun (Oct 13, 2009)

Sweet!


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## HolyMan (Oct 13, 2009)

So Rhun when is the last time one of your characters killed something???

I see a little bloodthirstness in your more resent posts LOL.

I have been back on EnWorld for about 4 months and the only combat I was part of ended with a TPK via G. Cube (though I have DM a couple fights) lets just hope there is no G. Cube behind that secert door 

HM


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## Rhun (Oct 14, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> So Rhun when is the last time one of your characters killed something???
> 
> I see a little bloodthirstness in your more resent posts LOL.




It has been a couple of days. 



HolyMan said:


> I have been back on EnWorld for about 4 months and the only combat I was part of ended with a TPK via G. Cube (though I have DM a couple fights) lets just hope there is no G. Cube behind that secert door




You just gotta wait until the games get into motion. I've had plenty of fights over the last couple months. We just finished killing the BBEG in Rise of the Runelords: The Skinsaw Murders (at least I think we are still in The Skinsaw Murders). Helluva fight, too. I really thought it was going to be a TPK at one point.


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## HolyMan (Oct 14, 2009)

No actual I'm not looking for a fight but I do want to know how my characters will do in one. Kind of like that first jump out of a plane makes the second and third ones alot easier once you've done it once.

HM


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## Rhun (Oct 14, 2009)

Well, since this particular game is really a playtest of "mapless" combat rules, I figure it would be good to get into the first combat and get an idea of how things are going to work.


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## HolyMan (Oct 14, 2009)

DOH!!! Glad you thought of it because I forgot LOL I was to busy tring to stay in character. You know givin this situation what would Yuin do if I would have remebered I would have opened the double doors.

HM


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## Rhun (Oct 14, 2009)

Don't worry. Anundr will find us plenty of fights. Assuming he survives.


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## Walking Dad (Oct 14, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> ... only combat I was part of ended with a TPK via G. Cube (though I have DM a couple fights) lets just hope there is no G. Cube behind that secert door
> 
> HM



My fault


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## Rhun (Oct 14, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> My fault




Nice work, WD!


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## Malvoisin (Oct 14, 2009)

HolyMan said:


> DOH!!! Glad you thought of it because I forgot LOL I was to busy tring to stay in character. You know givin this situation what would Yuin do if I would have remebered I would have opened the double doors.
> 
> HM




Yeah, I'm all for you guys helping me push this thing forward. I mean, caution is warranted, because it's a dungeon and it is dangerous. But it's not a deathtrap like Tomb of Horrors or anything.

IC post coming up in a little while...


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## Rhun (Oct 14, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Yeah, I'm all for you guys helping me push this thing forward. I mean, caution is warranted, because it's a dungeon and it is dangerous. But it's not a deathtrap like Tomb of Horrors or anything.




You say that now! We'll see...


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## HolyMan (Oct 14, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> My fault




Awe it's O.k. WD, you can't stop the mindless cube sfrom doing what they do LOL 

But next time I will be ready because I'll be 20th lvl 

HM


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## Malvoisin (Oct 14, 2009)

Rhun said:


> You say that now! We'll see...




Curses, my insidious ploy of misdirection has failed!


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## Rhun (Oct 14, 2009)

And battle is joined.


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## Malvoisin (Oct 14, 2009)

Rhun said:


> And battle is joined.




Indeed. And here I expected Anundr to mumble an apology and turn right around. Go figure.

Combat actions, gentlemen.


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## Rhun (Oct 14, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Indeed. And here I expected Anundr to mumble an apology and turn right around. Go figure.
> 
> Combat actions, gentlemen.




Anundr's are posted. Do you want us to use invisible castle for rolls, or just post our combat bonuses as I did in my post?


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## Malvoisin (Oct 15, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Anundr's are posted. Do you want us to use invisible castle for rolls, or just post our combat bonuses as I did in my post?




Just bonuses, as you did. I'd like to do the die rolling for this one.


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## HolyMan (Oct 15, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Just bonuses, as you did. I'd like to do the die rolling for this one.




Opps I rolled but will stop as it was the worst ever. LOL


HM


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## Rhun (Oct 15, 2009)

Malvoisin said:


> Just bonuses, as you did. I'd like to do the die rolling for this one.




Honestly, I prefer you handle the rolls as well.


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## HolyMan (Oct 26, 2009)

*bump*


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