# Teen Titans: Your thoughts and mine...



## Nightfall (Jul 20, 2003)

Saw the show...not sure if I feel its on the same level as Justice League or Batman (take your pick on which animated one I'm referring to). But eh, was fun to watch. Just want to know more about Slade...and less teenage agnst. However since that what this show was geared for...I guess I'll just have to deal.


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## Dark Psion (Jul 20, 2003)

My first two comics I ever read on a regular basis, Teen Titans and The Legion of SuperHeroes.

Oh, I know all about Slade and it was a nice revision of Gizmo and Mammoth also. I do hope they plan to have the other Teen Titans at least guest star in some episodes. Also, I am curious how they will handle Raven's father on the show.

Could do without the "super deformed anime" aspects though. That is the one thing I don't like about Rurouni Kenshin as well, it destroys the illusion and makes it into just a cartoon.


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## LuYangShih (Jul 20, 2003)

It was great fun.  I enjoyed it.


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## Chun-tzu (Jul 20, 2003)

I liked it. I usually prefer more serious stuff, that's more true to modern super-hero comics, like Batman TAS and the 80's X-Men cartoon. This is clearly and intentionally done in a very different style, and that's fine with me. I don't want all super-hero cartoons to be the same.

Assuming there's no major decline in the show's quality, I'd rank Teen Titans higher than X-Men Evolution or Static Shock. For some reason, those two never fully clicked for me.


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## Dimenhydrinate (Jul 20, 2003)

I will have to watch it somemore. I don't know about it quite yet. They couldn't use Slade's "real name" because it would scare the kiddies they figured. All in All it isn't bad but I hope it does get a little better. Too much out and out goofiness for me at this point.


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## Green Knight (Jul 20, 2003)

> Also, I am curious how they will handle Raven's father on the show.




Never read Teen Titans save for one issue, so what's the deal with Raven's father? 

Anyway, I REALLY hated all the anime conventions they used. It's PRECISELY that crap that turns me off of anime, and it seems like they decided to shove every last annoying convention down our throats in the first 10 minutes, alone. 

That having been said, once I got past all that annoying anime crap, I liked it. Would've liked it a lot better without all that anime garbage, but even with that it's good enough for me to watch on a regular basis. Still, the old Batman and Superman cartoons, along with X-Men: Evolution and Justice League, are vastly superior to what I've seen so far. 

As for Slade, I don't get how the X-Men cartoon from the 90's was able to use the name "Lady* Deathstrike*" but Teen Titans can't use "Deathstroke". It's a difference of one letter! Oh well.


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## Jamdin (Jul 20, 2003)

Raven's history be told at http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/raven.html


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## omata (Jul 20, 2003)

i  thought some of the voices where wrong mainly robens it reminded me of the geek forn mission hill


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## RangerWickett (Jul 21, 2003)

It was tons, miles better than Justice League (I can't understand what they're trying to do with that show; the plots are too ridiculously high-powered for me to care about the characters), and I'd also rank it above X-Men: Evolution, even though the feel of each of the two shows is very different.  This one was fun and witty, and overall very entertaining to watch.

I'll admit, I love anime, and don't understand why some people dislike certain 'anime conventions' like sweat drops, forehead vein-bulges, split-panel screens, and super-deformed characters.  They're great tools for conveying different tones and elements of the story, and I think they fit this show very well.

Sure, it can't hold a candle to the Jackie Chan Adventures, but Teen Titans is still pretty good.  Plus, the theme music is adorable.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jul 21, 2003)

I finally got around to watching it this morning.  For some reason this show just didn't work for me.  It wasn't bad, but it was not great either.  Not something I plan to go out of my way to watch.  

Whats odd is I love Anime and all of the odd conventions of, but for me they just did not work well with this show.  It felt too forced I guess.


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## Dark Psion (Jul 21, 2003)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Never read Teen Titans save for one issue, so what's the deal with Raven's father?
> 
> *




Here is a great Titan site and it is up to date with the current team: http://www.titanstower.com/


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## fba827 (Jul 21, 2003)

Alas, I was not very fond of the episode.  Then again, I am not necessarily part of their target audience.

I did not like the obviously anime-influenced animation sytle.  That was a big turn off for me.  I also did not like Cyborg's character in general (it just sounded like too much effort to use the high-tech slang words, both by him and those attacking him).  Also, aside from beastboy and robin, the limits of their powers seemed unlimited (how much and different types of things could the others do?  Every scene they seemed to be able to do more above and beyond than before)...

Again, though, I suppose I was not their target auidence.  I was really hoping to like it though as it otherwise seemed like something I would be into.


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## Chun-tzu (Jul 21, 2003)

omata said:
			
		

> *i  thought some of the voices where wrong mainly robens it reminded me of the geek forn mission hill *




It's the same voice actor, Scott Menville. He was also the voice for Johnny Quest (80s version).


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## JoeGKushner (Jul 21, 2003)

Well, I missed it again.

Oh well. It's probably for the best. I'm one of those old bastards who collected comics in the 80's-90's and got tired of "alive-dead-alive-dead-alive" issue that comics tend to suffer although I do remember Starfire and Robin's first kiss in the comics so that she could absorb language. Funny stuff and George Perez's art was outstanding.


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## The Blue Elf (Jul 22, 2003)

The show reminds me of the old Super Friends shows, and Robin had to say that one line that reminded me of the Super friends, "Listen up, Teen Titans!".


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## krunchyfrogg (Jul 22, 2003)

What station is this show on?  I'd like to catch it.

BTW, I saw in TV Guide (gee -- should have checked the station then...) that each character was influenced by a character in _The Breakfast Club_.


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## omata (Jul 22, 2003)

krunchyfrogg said:
			
		

> *What station is this show on?  I'd like to catch it.
> 
> BTW, I saw in TV Guide (gee -- should have checked the station then...) that each character was influenced by a character in The Breakfast Club. *



cartoon network on sat at 8/9


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## Endur (Jul 23, 2003)

I saw it.  I thought it was worse then Superman, Justice League, and Batman.

Its obviously intended for a younger audience than me.  

I didn't care for the anime stuff.

I didn't have any problems with the slade part.  

Its just that it all seemed so "juvenile", although, to be truthful, some of the Titans (in particular Changling) were juvenile.

We need some more Teen Titans though ... are Terra, Speedy, and Kid Flash going to join the team?


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## Nightfall (Jul 27, 2003)

Well got to see the newest one...it was interesting...but I still feel like I'm missing some of the elements key in Justice League and Batman. But otherwise it's decent fare. I do think though I can see the appeal Starfire can have...and after reading more of the comics I'm down with Raven's goth feel.


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## Squire James (Jul 28, 2003)

Justice League shows seem to be following the same pattern every episode.  First, everyone has to show they can handle Superman, or it's Game Over right away!  So yeah, they pretty much have to stick to high-power stuff.

Teen Titans is still feeling its way around, apparently "going through the list".  I wouldn't be surprised if something about Raven's father isn't introduced within the next 3 episodes.  The anime influence doesn't bother me, nor does it particularly thrill me.  Anime has its advantages and disadvantages.  I keep thinking Beastboy should turn into a chicken and see if he does as well as Samurai Jack did when he was a chicken!


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## The Blue Elf (Jul 30, 2003)

The way they made the story they keep geting there asses kicked.They act all whinny Teenagers like everytime when Titans can't beat up a single bad guy. It it seems they try to hard to make it funny to understand when I rewatched the episodes.


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## Samnell (Jul 30, 2003)

I love it. But then I've powerfully loathed every other DC animation to date. The Batman, Superman, and Justice League cartoons come across almost like they read my mind and tried to include everything I could possibly loathe in a TV program.

Teen Titans is none of that, and it's entertaining too. I don't like it as much as I do X-Men Evolution, but then I have virtually zero investment in the Titans as characters where I'm quite invested in the X-Men.


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## Silver Moon (Aug 2, 2003)

Haven't seen the cartoon yet, but on a related note, my kids wanted me to read them a comic tonight.   I started with Tales of Suspense #39 (from 1963, 1st Ironman) which my son liked, but my daughters did not care for.   I next read them Daredevil #1 (from '1964) which my oldest liked, but the other two lost interest.    

I then read them Teen Titans #1 (from 1966) and hit upon a winner!  They loved it.    We'll continue tomorrow night, as I have around 1/3 of the original 1960's/70's run.   Then we hit the Masterpieces (the 80's Perez/Wolfman run, that I have all of).


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## LuYangShih (Aug 5, 2003)

I am still enjoying it greatly.  It is fun, and that is the bottom line.  Starfire is hilarious.


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## WizarDru (Aug 5, 2003)

Enjoying the series quite a bit, actually.  And so are my kids.  The anime touches sometimes work, and sometimes not so much....but I enjoy their inclusion.  It gives Teen Titans it's own voice, so to speak, compared with Batman, Superman and Justice League.  With three episodes down, the animation is good, the stories are solid, and the show is fun.

Justice League runs hot and cold with me.  Some episodes are great, like the ones using the Fourth World characters (that could have easily gone another episode).  The Vandal Savage arc was good fun, and the Injustice League was excellent.  Some were not very good at all, such as the whole Atlantean mess.  

The biggest problem I have with Teen Titans is a minor quibble, in that they're a concept dependent on outside sources to explain them, even though that continuity can't technically exist.  I'm sure it's no accident that only one of the characters on the animated roster can be tied back to a character outside the show, namely Robin.  Beast Boy can, of course, be tied back to the Doom Patrol, but only die-hard comics fans would know that.  The bulk of the material that the animated series is from the series second run, not it's first.

Considering that the source material is over 20 years old, now, it's aged pretty well, with only minimal changes.  Raven was Goth before the term existed, so it's a pretty natural transformation.  Starfire is less of the sultry engenue, and more of a naive sweetheart (and none the worse for it).  Beast Boy...is still pretty much the same.  Cyborg is a little more marginalized...and is now more "angry-lite" than angry.

The biggest modification, of course, is that some characters are anywhere from 2 to 5 years younger than the same characters in the 80s run.  Considering the target audience that they're probably shooting for, that's not a bad idea.

I'm looking forward to future epsiodes, and see where they go with Deathstroke.


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## Anavel Gato (Aug 6, 2003)

*Question*

which Robin is this supposed to be?  Dick Grayson, Jason Todd(not likely) or Tim Drake (not sure if that is his name or not--the new robin)?  

As far as the show goes, I watch it or try to watch it.  I often forget it is on.  In all, it could be better on many levels, but not bad to turn on and veg out to...


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## WizarDru (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Question*



			
				Anavel Gato said:
			
		

> *which Robin is this supposed to be?  Dick Grayson, Jason Todd(not likely) or Tim Drake (not sure if that is his name or not--the new robin)?  *




It hasn't been established within the context of the show, but assuming they're using the same animated DC continuity, this would be Tim Drake.  Dick Grayson was the original robin in both comic and animated...the only difference is that Dick went straight to a variant of Nightwing's 3rd costume when he went solo.  Tim Drake replaced him not long after.  Especially since the quarterstaff is the Tim Drake Robin's calling card.


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## Villano (Aug 6, 2003)

Am I the only one or can anyone else hear shades of Secret Agent Man in the opening theme?   Seriously, next time it comes on, sing along: 

There is a man 
Who lives a life of danger

Teen Titans!

To everyone he meets
He stays a stranger

Teen Titans!

And what about the original theme to Big O?  Anyone else find themselves singing, "Flash!  Ah-ah!"?


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## WizarDru (Aug 6, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> *And what about the original theme to Big O?  Anyone else find themselves singing, "Flash!  Ah-ah!"?  *




Considering how hard the guitarist worked to sound just like Brian May, I think it's pretty clear that it was intentional.  It's also pretty damn funny.


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## Anavel Gato (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: Question*



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It hasn't been established within the context of the show, but assuming they're using the same animated DC continuity, this would be Tim Drake.  Dick Grayson was the original robin in both comic and animated...the only difference is that Dick went straight to a variant of Nightwing's 3rd costume when he went solo.  Tim Drake replaced him not long after.  Especially since the quarterstaff is the Tim Drake Robin's calling card. *




thanks, WizarDru.  I didn't even pick up on the quarterstaff.  The costume I recoginze as a later robin, but yeah never know...thanks again.  
Ps..Malvern is a wonderful place eh...convinient to Compleat Strategist or the poorly stocked WotC...


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## WizarDru (Aug 7, 2003)

When the WotC store was brand new, it was pretty awesome.  WotC's changing fortunes, and now their changing retail strategy makes them just another board-game and tchotchke store (they won't even stock Dungeon or Dragon magazines).

Allied Hobbies is in the same mall, and has reverted to being the better store.  They emphasize modelling and similar hobbies, but they have an appreciable collection of top-tier RPG products and carry plenty of minis and collectible games.  The staff clearly plays many of the games, so that doesn't hurt.

The Compleat Strategist can be very good or very bad, depending on the day, who's working at that moment and the phase of the moon.  After they screwed up two orders of mine following months of incompetence, they've dropped down to an impulse-buy-only store for me.

Incidentally, if you're in Malvern, you might consider Shorecon 2003, where we're having a gathering.


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## WizarDru (Aug 7, 2003)

When strikes..............the DOUBLE POST!


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## Klaus (Aug 7, 2003)

I just don't know why they chose to add green back into Robin's costume (making it resemble the animated Dick Grayson's first costume). I thought the latest Robin costume from Batman:tAS, being all red and black with yellow only on the belt and the "R" was very good.

Speaking of Titans, anyone checked out the recent Teen Titans relaunch? In a nutshell, the Teen Titans are now Robin (Tim Drake), Wonder Girl (Cassandra Sandsmark), Superboy (Kon-El), Impulse (Bart Allen), Changeling (Gar Logan), Starfire (Koryand'r) and Cyborg (Victor Stone), with Raven set to join in a few issues. It's written by JSA's uber-scribe Geoff Johns.


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## JoeGKushner (Aug 7, 2003)

Starfire and Raven back eh? Might be worth picking up the graphic novel when it comes out.


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## Klaus (Aug 7, 2003)

Yes, it sounds really good (I only read the preview that ran in Wizard, but it's now available at http://www.dccomics.com .

In short, the new Titans Tower is located in San Francisco (being partially financed by the city of SF and some Silicon Valley folks).

And one of the first people to take interest in the Titans is Deathstroke, who doesn't want the kids to get together.

Oh, and Michael Turner (Fathom, Witchblade) did an alternate cover for issue #1, where Starfire takes center stage (as well she should!)


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## Sir Osis of Liver (Aug 7, 2003)

> Oh, and Michael Turner (Fathom, Witchblade) did an alternate cover for issue #1, where Starfire takes center stage (as well she should!)




I got the mike turner cover, it's very nice. The first issue was real good, i think it's going to be a popular series.


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## Rackhir (Aug 12, 2003)

I've liked very much pretty much all the other DC shows from those guys, but not the teen titians. Especially since they all look like the Pre-Teen Titians. Have they mentioned any ages for the characters, since they look like they are about 11 or 12?


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## WizarDru (Aug 12, 2003)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> *I've liked very much pretty much all the other DC shows from those guys, but not the teen titians. Especially since they all look like the Pre-Teen Titians. Have they mentioned any ages for the characters, since they look like they are about 11 or 12? *




Not so far.  My gut feeling is that they are mostly around the 14-15 range, with cyborg probably around 16.  Robin is the most noticable, being considerably shorter, but if we use BTAS Tim Drake as a starting point, that would sound about right.  Starfire would be very close to Robin's age, I'm assuming.  Raven is a tougher one to guess, as she could just be short.  Beast Boy is presumably the youngest.

I remember, back in the 80s, thinking that the Teen Titans didn't really look like Teens to me, in the beginning...particularly Raven.  I don't particularly recall caring what age Starfire was, as long as she kept dressing like that. But hey, I was 12.  

For what it's worth, my daughter considers Starfire to be her favorite and my son is partial to Robin.  But Robin gets a bonus there, as he works with Batman, who easily beats out Superman in my son's book.


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## Scarbonac (Aug 13, 2003)

I'm unhappy with it; after the great work adapting DC properties done on _Batman:TAS_, _Superman Adventures_, _Batman Beyond_ and _Justice League_, _Teen Titans_ hits a sour note (hell, _The Zeta Project_ was a superior effort, even though its status as yet another retread of _The Fugitive_ theme might make one dubiouis).

The pseudoanime style is distracting and the characterizations are (to be polite) coarse in the extreme, with Starfire ringing almost _completely_ untrue. The Naif aspect of her persona is handled well, but she's been turned into the Mihoshi-esque ''Screamy-Girl''!

That's Changeling's role! 

Kory is the sweet, semi-hedonistic ass-kicking warrior-nudist, daggone it!


While Goth is reasonably close to Raven's original  portrayal, psuedoanime Raven is far too grumpy.

Cyborg was the angry and depressed member of the team; now he seems like a happy jock in a metal suit.


_Some_ the characters have these things called _names_: Garfield , Victor, Koriand'r, (or Gar, Vic and Kory) and (I'm assuming) Tim; the Titans regularly used their real names rather than the code-names at least in private.


Raven didn't _fly_, back when I read the book; she teleported. 


I desperately miss Kid Flash, Speedy and Wonder Girl (not Aqualad, though; what a loser _he_ was!).


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## LuYangShih (Aug 30, 2003)

I like Teen Titans better than any of the other DC cartoons I have seen so far.  Regardless of whether or not it is a perfect adaptation of the comics, it is just plain fun, which is more than I can say for the other DC cartoons in most cases.


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## Nightfall (Aug 31, 2003)

Okay I must say that tonight's ep was good. I knew a little of Raven's history (Thank you Google!  ) But what I REALLY enjoyed was the Japanese version of the Theme song. Now THAT was cool.


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## LuYangShih (Aug 31, 2003)

Yes.  I especially liked Ravens alter egos.


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## Viking Bastard (Aug 31, 2003)

I thoroughly enjoying the cartoon. It's not on the same level as the 
other AniDCU cartoons, but not on a lower level as such, but more on 
a completely different kind of level.

It's just so much dang fun!


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## Nightfall (Aug 31, 2003)

Yes it is fun. But I also am beggining to enjoy the animesque scenes as well. But the fact they have the theme song sung in Japanese, priceless.


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## Viking Bastard (Aug 31, 2003)

I've never really enjoyed humour in Anime. I'm not gonna say it's bad humour, but rather that I just 
don't get it. I just roll my eyes at the attemps to make me laugh in series such as Trigun (a series I
otherwise enjoy very much).

But here it works, because it's western-type humour despite the animesque approach.


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## Wycen (Aug 31, 2003)

I've been watching this in the last couple weeks, well, mostly it was something to have on the tv while I was writing. 

I'm not familiar with most DC titles, so the question that came to my mind was, 'Why are these prepubescent kids allowed to act unsupervised?  I don't see a single adult.  How come Cyborg is using a blaster gun?  What is he like 12 years old and everybody is afraid of disarming him?"

That's not to say it isn't entertaining, it's just not quite right in my mind.


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## Viking Bastard (Aug 31, 2003)

They're much older in the comics.

Or at least, they look and act older.


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## Nightfall (Aug 31, 2003)

Yeah they are supposed to be older but not as old as the JLA. Or other teams with people in their early to late 30s. 

Viking, that's what I was saying.


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## Viking Bastard (Aug 31, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Viking, that's what I was saying.



What, the humour thing?


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## Nightfall (Aug 31, 2003)

Uhm yeah. Americanized satire of Japanese anime tropes.  Especially more so with the fact they used a Japanese version of the Theme song which was originally an attempt to be satirical about the whole Japanese bouncy intro songs.


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## Klaus (Sep 1, 2003)

In one of the old Wolfman-Pérez New Teen Titans series, they had a retreat in the Grand Canyon or something, and Changeling (Gar Logan) was the only one too young to toast with alcoholic drink (he had to drink soda). And in the first issue of the current Flash series (starring Wally West), which came out right after Legends, the Titans celebrate Wally's 20th birthday, with Nightwing (Dick Grayson) commenting that he's not a teenager anymore.

IIRC, Cyborg (Vic Stone) was 18 or 19 when he joined the Titans.


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## Nightfall (Sep 1, 2003)

Okay well maybe I'm a little off on my age definitations then Klaus.


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## Scarbonac (Sep 2, 2003)

For the first time, I can say that I liked an ep of TT, mostly because it was about the characters, rather than being a lame-ass "villain of the week" escapade. The characters are still a tad "young" for my tastes.

And the theme song in Japanese rocked.


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## Villano (Sep 2, 2003)

Scarbonac said:
			
		

> For the first time, I can say that I liked an ep of TT, mostly because it was about the characters, rather than being a lame-ass "villain of the week" escapade. The characters are still a tad "young" for my tastes.
> 
> And the theme song in Japanese rocked.





I totally agree with this post.  The first episode was okay, but it really went downhill for me.  The last show was the 1st one I really liked.

I am wondering about Cyborg's design.  Does his current comic incarnation look like this, or is this an original look? 

I'd be surprised if it was designed for the show because, for the most part, I've been dissappointed with the designs on Justice League and TT.  They kind of look too, I don't know, generic.  Mammoth got turned into another Sabretooth.  Star Saphire and Starfire look bland.  And Cheetah?  Yuck! 

But the theme song does indeed rock.


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## Piratecat (Sep 2, 2003)

[hijack]  Who needs the Teen Titans?  I'm incredibly psyched; I've found the roster of the Legion of Substitute Heroes. Go, Stone Boy, go!  All hail Chloryphyll Kid!  Save me, Matter-Eater Lad!  

http://www.legiononline.net/volume2/bios.html

Click on "Reserves" at the very bottom of the left-hand menu.


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## LuYangShih (Sep 2, 2003)

That link is not working.  I remember reading a comic with them in it, though.  Probably one of the funniest comics I have ever read, Ambush Bug got taken along (accidentally) to the future with Superman.  I think the worst (funniest) names were, Technicolor Kid, Antennae Lad, and Infectious Lass.  

As for the character designs on Teen Titans, I liked all of them.


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## Nightfall (Sep 2, 2003)

I like the character designs too. I also felt the designs for Justice League were just fine.


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## WizarDru (Sep 2, 2003)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> [hijack] Who needs the Teen Titans? I'm incredibly psyched; I've found the roster of the Legion of Substitute Heroes. Go, Stone Boy, go! All hail Chloryphyll Kid! Save me, Matter-Eater Lad!



Ah, the classic lineup. Good Times. Good Times. Great link, that.

Keith Giffen had a pretty funny story with the subs and the Ambush Bug (back before he got to be a running gag that had outstayed his welcome). However, during the final issues of the previous Legion series, when Earth was at war with the Dominators, who had conquered the planet, the subs became freedom fighters, and Giffen gave them back some dignity (heck, he made them pretty cool).   _(and while we're on the subject, the Legion's policies seemed a tad goofy, sometimes...some of the reserve members got the shaft, if you ask me)._

I like Justice League's stories...but the designs are a little too simplified, for me. They're too angular, I think, something that they really went overboard on when they did newer Batman episodes. I like TT's sense of self-aware silliness...and I like the more subtle character moments best. It's a little disappointing if they're not going to link Robin to Batman in any way, but c'est la vie. A Nightwing appearance would be pretty cool, but I doubt that'll happen, either.

And Puffy AmiYumi rocks the hizzy, y'all. Their catchy brand of slightly tongue-in-cheek j-pop is pitch perfect for TT. Now if we can just get L'arc-en-Ciel to do something for a US TV show....


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## Klaus (Sep 2, 2003)

I liked most of the new designs, although some episodes of JL seemed poorer in execution (the Metamorpho and Justice Guild eps come to mind). I like this Cheetah, but I'd rather have her be archaelogist Barbara Minerva, and have long hair (I never liked the Superfriends' Cheetah).

Quick re-cap of Cyborg's look:

For a time, Victor Stone merged with a technological planet called Technis, and attempted to assimilate the Earth. The Titans managed to restore Vic's sanity by downloading him (through Raven's soul self) into the T-1000ish armor one of the newer Teen Titans. After this, Cyborg looked like a golden version of his non-cyborg body (a la Kingdom Come). He has limited morphing capabilities and can mentally control machines.

After that, Nightwing worked with the russian lab that rebuilt Cyborg some years ago to clone Vic's original body. By using Cyborg's new morphing powers, they managed to place Cyborg inside his organic body. Now he looks entirely human, but can make his metallic interior ooze through his skin to form cyborg parts. In recent Flash comics, he would use this power to turn himself into a golden version of his original Cyborg look (with the headband and all) whenever he had to fight, claiming he was most at ease with that form.

In the current Titans series, Cyborg hasn't been seen yet, only heard.


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## Piratecat (Sep 2, 2003)

LuYangShih said:
			
		

> That link is not working.  I remember reading a comic with them in it, though.  Probably one of the funniest comics I have ever read, Ambush Bug got taken along (accidentally) to the future with Superman.  I think the worst (funniest) names were, Technicolor Kid, Antennae Lad, and Infectious Lass.




The link works fine for me, although you have to scroll down and click on "Reserves" to get the really goofy superheroes. My friend remembers one where Stone Boy (whose only power is to turn himself to stone.. not that he can move or anything once he does) falls on a bad guy.  Man, these characters scream out "low powered superhero game" to me.

The Legion's rules were a bit goofy; you could only join if you had a power that no one else had. I think that's why Supergirl was excluded for some time. It makes sense, though; a number of members like Triplicate Girl or Polar Boy (or even Stone Boy!) had racial powers that everyone on their planet had.. they just happened to be the first people to apply to the Legion.


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## tetsujin28 (Sep 6, 2003)

I saw PuffyAmiYumi in SF!


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## LuYangShih (Sep 7, 2003)

Tonights episode was the best yet.  I absolutely love this show.


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## Nightfall (Sep 7, 2003)

I'm sorry I missed it.


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## LoneWolf23 (Sep 7, 2003)

Here are my 2 cents:

-The Anime flavor, I don't mind.  Anime and Manga-type stuff has only gained in popularity over the years, and that's only to be expected: It's fun, it's expressive, it looks cool, etc.  I myself am a fan of American Manga like Gold Digger and Ninja High School, and Jackie Chan Adventures (an anime-type series) is one of my favorite cartoons.

I honestly prefer american-made anime-styled shows over original japanese shows that were badly dubbed (4Kids, this is aimed at you   )

-The Animated Universe containing Animated Batman Animated Superman, JLA and the like, I prefer to think of as "Ultimate DC done right".  They take classic characters, scrub off years of continuity, keep essential elements of personality, then add some modern popculture and pop them into a modern-day setting.  They've saved the basic elements of the original Titans (Raven's Angst, Starfire's Innocence, Beast Boy's comic attitude and Cyborg's Anger) and gave them modern spins.

-I don't mind that Deathstroke is only called "Slade" in the cartoon.  Some of the most bad-ass villains in cartoons and comics are known by a simple, short name: Doom; Kang; Luthor; Aku...   I also like how he's more manipulative and organised, a master villain rather then just a mercenary.

So far, Teen Titans looks good and fun to me.


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## Scarbonac (Sep 8, 2003)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> [hijack]  Who needs the Teen Titans?  I'm incredibly psyched; I've found the roster of the Legion of Substitute Heroes. Go, Stone Boy, go!  All hail Chloryphyll Kid!  Save me, Matter-Eater Lad!
> 
> http://www.legiononline.net/volume2/bios.html
> 
> Click on "Reserves" at the very bottom of the left-hand menu.




Woo-hoo, Stone Boy! Deserving of the title "Most Useless Hero  in the Known Universe"  -- unless you needed a self-aware battering-ram.

Although Color Kid prolly truly deserves that one; "Hey, I can turn the bad guy green!"

And Bouncing Boy -- how'd he snag a hottie like Triplicate Girl/Duo Damsel? I swear that must have been a fat lonely geek comic-writer's fantasy that he decided to make "real".

*sniff* Just re-read the listing for Chemical King; the first Legionaire whom I saw die...unless you count Proty. Fare thee well, dude...

Ooo, Laurel Kent has a _great_ costume...


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## WizarDru (Sep 8, 2003)

Scarbonac said:
			
		

> Ooo, Laurel Kent has a _great_ costume...




Yeah, kinda highlights the change in comics, social mores and the readership, don't it?  Take a look at the original Legion costumes and compare them with that.  Whew.


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## LuYangShih (Sep 15, 2003)

Another great show.  So much fun.  None of the other DC cartoons were ever this good.


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## Nightfall (Sep 15, 2003)

Well it was funny...but I like the last ep more. Raven and Star starting to understand each other was what I liked. Plus I didn't like the way Raven was sort of mooning over him. Raven?! Moon over ANYONE!? PPPHLLEASSEE!!


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## Villano (Sep 15, 2003)

I might be misremembering things, but didn't Aqualad at one point early one say that Triton was able to duplicate himself?  If so, why was he shocked that there was more than one Triton?  

An okay episode.  Not as good as Raven's mind, but better than earlier ones.  Though I wish they would have explained why Triton looked the way he did (not like the humanoid Atlanteans).  Also, I was a bit thrown by the title "Deep Six".   I was expecting Darkseid's underwater team.

I'm hoping Deep Six makes it over to Justice League.  I love those guys.


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## LuYangShih (Sep 15, 2003)

Aqualad simply said Trident seemed to have gained the ability to be several places at once.  It was not until later they discovered he was actually duplicating himself. 

Oh, and last weeks episode with the Raven and Starfire interaction was definitely the best thus far.  I really love the way that episode is done.  Raven is my absolute favorite character so far.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Sep 15, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Well it was funny...but I like the last ep more. Raven and Star starting to understand each other was what I liked. Plus I didn't like the way Raven was sort of mooning over him. Raven?! Moon over ANYONE!? PPPHLLEASSEE!!



Yeah.  That was grossly out of character.  It's kind of disappointing that last week's very good, character-driven episode was followed by such a lackluster, plot-driven one.


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## WayneLigon (Sep 15, 2003)

Scarbonac said:
			
		

> Although Color Kid prolly truly deserves that one; "Hey, I can turn the bad guy green!"




Color Kid also demonstrate one amazing use for his power, once that should have meant Superboy kidnapped him right then and handcuffed him to his wrist. There was some arc where a villain had seeded Earth's atmosphere with Green Kryptonite, so that Superboy couldn't exist on 30th Century Earth anymore. At the end of the arc, Color Kid _turns the kryptonite blue_, which is harmless to normal Kryptonians. Talk about your cheesy saves


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## Villano (Sep 15, 2003)

LuYangShih said:
			
		

> Aqualad simply said Trident seemed to have gained the ability to be several places at once.  It was not until later they discovered he was actually duplicating himself.




Which makes me wonder why Beast Boy and Aqualad were arguing about which one was actually fighting Triton.  Whether he knew about how Triton was doing it or not, he knew he was doing something.  Aqualad, of all people, shouldn't have had the "Hey, I was busy fighting Triton."  "No you weren't, I was!"  "No, I was fighting Trition!"  argument.

Next episode looks pretty good, though.  Is X (if that's they'll use) an original character or from the comics?


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## Sen Udo-Mal (Sep 15, 2003)

Klaus said:
			
		

> In the current Titans series, Cyborg hasn't been seen yet, only heard.




Hmm nope... in the new Teen Titans (issue 3 I think came out this week) Cyborg is in it and looks like his old self again. Not sure why myself. Of course then I am not sure what is up with this new New Teen Titans...


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## LuYangShih (Sep 16, 2003)

I am fairly certain the villians name is *Trident*, not Triton.


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## Nightfall (Sep 16, 2003)

Lu,

I'm pretty sure it's Triton. 


As for X I think he's just something they tossed in. I could be wrong.


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## Nightfall (Sep 16, 2003)

*bad post* *VERY bad post*


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## LuYangShih (Sep 17, 2003)

I watched both airings, and he clearly says Trident.  There is no T at the end of Triton.


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## Nightfall (Sep 17, 2003)

Lu,

You're right. My bad.


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## Klaus (Sep 17, 2003)

Trident was a second-class* villain from the New Teen Titans series. The villain always seemed to be in more than one place, or seemed to die and then reappear uninjured.





SPOILERS






Truth is, it was more than one crook in the Trident suit.





* For the record, first-class Titans villains, IMHO, are Trigon, Brother Blood, Deathstroke the Terminator, H.I.V.E. and Wildebeest.


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## LuYangShih (Sep 21, 2003)

Excellent episode, perhaps even as good as the Starfire-Raven episode.  Slade is a great villian, and I loved Robins character development.  I think they are improving the character drawings as well.  Raven and Starfire in particular looked even better, especially in the beginning.


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## Nightfall (Sep 22, 2003)

This was by far the best ep. Slade has turned into an interesting adversary. (Not sure I'd qualify him as villianous as he's not done much other than pull strings. But then I'm judging him against some really high standards such as Darkseid and Naraku.  ) Overall this ep was a GREAT step up from that Aqua stuff. (Which was fun but I don't need fun. )


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## LuYangShih (Sep 23, 2003)

I still prefer the Raven-Starfire episode, but "Masks" was definitely one of the best so far.  It is truly excellent that this show is improving even more from the great beginning.


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Overall this ep was a GREAT step up from that Aqua stuff. (Which was fun but I don't need fun. )



_Don't need fun?_  That's not something I hear often. 

I think Slade is pretty villanious, myself.  He's already arranged for high profile thefts, multiple attempted assasainations, instigated millions of dollars of property damage (with the associated endangerment of civilians) and arranged for a breakout and kidnapping of a powerful metahuman from a federal prison.

Not to mention endagering the welfare of minors.


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## Viking Bastard (Sep 23, 2003)

On what days are new TT episodes aired? How many are out by now?


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2003)

Saturday nights on Cartoon Network in the U.S. at 9PM.

There have been seven or eight episodes, so far.

Let me think: 

First episode: H.I.V.E. villains
Second episode: Starfire's Sister
Third episode: Cyborg quits team (for a while)
Fourth episode: Thunder and Lightning
Fifth episode: Cyborg captured in tunnels
Sixth episode: Raven/Starfire switcheroo
Seventh episode: Aqualad/Beast Boy team-up
Eighth episode:  Robin obsessed by Slade
I think that's all of them, so far.  Next week is somebody I don't know, a sort of Mad Mod....who sounds like he was voiced by Malcolm McDowell, but that's just a hunch from the brief voice in the promo.


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## frankthedm (Sep 23, 2003)

this weekends episode is looking like it will be a psycodeliuc trip, with an austin powers wannabe as the villian. Yeah Bay~bee!


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## Villano (Sep 23, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I think Slade is pretty villanious, myself.  He's already arranged for high profile thefts, multiple attempted assasainations, instigated millions of dollars of property damage (with the associated endangerment of civilians) and arranged for a breakout and kidnapping of a powerful metahuman from a federal prison.




Slade seems to be very cool and clever...that is until you realize his greatest accomplishment seems to be outwitting a bunch of 12 yr olds. 

There are 2 things that bothered me about this episode.  First, we've finally got to see Slade and I have to tell you, I wasn't impressed.  I don't like the redesign at all.  While I prefer the comic look, I could live with this new one if they added orange to the body somewhere.  And that grill on the facemask has to go.

It all goes back to my original complaint that the cartoon designs on this show and Justice League look so generic.

The other thing I wanted to complain about, I can't do without spoilers.  How do you do that spoiler black out thing again?


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## WizarDru (Sep 24, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> It all goes back to my original complaint that the cartoon designs on this show and Justice League look so generic.
> 
> The other thing I wanted to complain about, I can't do without spoilers. How do you do that spoiler black out thing again?



Using the supercool 



Spoiler



spoiler tags. Simply enclose your phrase with word spoiler in brackets, and then end the phrase, paragraph or what have you with the same tag, but with a / before the word spoiler. It's KEEN!


 
As for the design...I works OK for me.  Not perfect, not even great,  but servicable, and easy drawn.

So what's your other complaint?


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## Villano (Sep 24, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Using the supercool
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah, thanks very much.  I was using my WebTV at the time, so I never bother to pay much attention on how to do the spoiler thing since, well, I'm conditioned to ignore technical stuff since WebTV can't do much technical stuff.  I switched to a computer (my sister's old one) recently since WebTV isn't available in my area.

My 2nd problem is...



Spoiler



Well, as soon as Red X spoke, I thought, "Hey, I think that's Robin."  When he mentioned a partnership, I knew it was him.

Okay, that's not my complaint.  What bothered me is all of Red X's powers.  He now has a glove that can shoot, well, all sorts of things.  Also, some of X's disappearing can be chalked up to him being a hologram, but other times, he's clearing physically fighting the Titans before vanishing, meaning he can turn invisible.

I think it goes without saying that Robin won't be using the glove or invisiblity tricks ever again.  True, Slade would probably have a way of getting around those things, but other villains won't.  Heck, every time you need to sneak around, you'd be using that invisibility thing.

I know, it's just a cartoon and I shouldn't think about such things to much.  But, when you show a character using a cool superpower, you have to wonder why they don't ever use it again.

It reminds me of an article in Comic Buyers Guide years ago.  It was a review of an old silver age Superman comic.  It was all about Jimmy Olsen getting zapped by a growth ray and Supes has to use the shrink ray that Brainiac used to shrink the Bottled City of Kandor.  At the end of the story, Supes either smashes the growth ray or stores it away or something, leading the writer to ask why he didn't use the growth ray to restore Kandor to its original size.  

It's the same thing here.  I know we'll be seeing stories where turning invisible or shooting some kind of adhesive will be necessary, but everyone will forget that Robin can do that.



Just my opinion, but it bothered me.


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## WizarDru (Sep 24, 2003)

Grrr.  Once upon a time, a fella could post regularly, and double-posts were a rarity.  Sorry bout that, folks.


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## WizarDru (Sep 24, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, I certainly understand that.  It remains to be seen how much we'll see of that in the future, but I don't think it's quite the same.  Specifically:



Spoiler



Most of those old Superman stories (and indeed, most of DC's stories at that time) were often written on the fly.  The editor would draw a cover and then tell the artist to make a story based on that cover...you know, ones like "Superman's been exposed to Red Kryptonite, and now he's a gorilla!".  Continuity wasn't even considered...they expected their readers to grow out of the material in a few years.  One of the reasons that Marvel nabbed such a huge market share when they appeared was that they had a clean continuity (_at that point, anyways)_ and consistency across the line.  Characters talked about events in other comics, and it felt like a single world.

All of which is a long way to get to my point about Robin and X.  As a detective and gadgeteer, Robin's equipment load-out is the most variable of the group.  The thrown gadgets were all pretty consistent with equipment Robin's already used (note how Starfire looked at his broken Robin-rang which, when broken, looked like, you guessed it...a Red X).  The trick was that Robin knew each of their vulnerabilities, and exploited them (but that trick didn't work twice, as we saw).

So all that really leaves us with is the holograms and the invisibility.  The holograms were gadget based, and really required set-up to work.  They weren't on-the-fly, and usually that's how the Titans operate.  Mostly they were a convienent plot device, and I wouldn't be suprised if we see them once or twice more.  But they require preparation to use.

So all that really leaves us with is invisibility...and the writers left us with lots of outs here, too.  First, it might have been part of the X costume, so the limitation might have been there, for a start.  Still you could easily argue that it could be put in his Robin outfit.  Whatever device Robin used, though, it wasn't terribly efficient.  X never goes invisible for more than a few moments, as far as we know.  At no point in the episode do we see X go invisible for more than a minute, at best.  Robin uses those precious seconds to their maximum, creating the illusion of teleportation.  But it's only an illusion.  Red X's illusion is all based on careful setup by Robin.  Note how Robin doesn't use invisibility to evade Slade's robots....indicating it's a pretty limited trick.


 
That said, I agree when shows do something like this.  Star Trek is famous for it.  I can give TT a lot of leeway, especially considering the format they're working with (a very condensed 22 minutes).


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## Nightfall (Sep 24, 2003)

Think you need to edit your first post Wiz.

But yeah I laughed when Vill pointed that out. But hey maybe he's working his way up the ranks.  I mean today 12 year olds, next week the 20-30 somethings!


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## LuYangShih (Sep 25, 2003)

Most of the Titans seem to be in the 15-17 range.  I think the character designs are great, and do not really see any problems.


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## Sulimo (Sep 26, 2003)

God-awful...pandering to the anime crowd. At least going by the first 2 episodes.


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## Nightfall (Sep 26, 2003)

Yes Sul, but that's how some people get ratings these days.


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## LuYangShih (Sep 27, 2003)

New episode tonight.  Should be good.  Looks like more of a pure fun episode, which is just fine with me.


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## Nightfall (Sep 28, 2003)

DUDE! This ep kicked ass!  Sure it may not have been as emotional as some of Batman eps or even Batman Beyond, but it was pure fun nonetheless. I definately enjoyed Mad Mod as a villian. He's the kind you love to hate and yet cheer for the same time. The guy is just panache. Not quite comic relief like Mike Myers British stuff, but more kind of Monty Python mixed with some old British Scifi. Good stuff.


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## LuYangShih (Sep 28, 2003)

Fun episode.  I really liked the music in the middle of the episode, too.


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## Uzumaki (Sep 29, 2003)

LuYangShih said:
			
		

> Fun episode.  I really liked the music in the middle of the episode, too.




Man, I love this show. I like anime, so using that style doesn't bother me at all and I didn't know anything about TT before this show. The song played during the chase scene is called 'K2G.'


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## LuYangShih (Sep 30, 2003)

Thanks for the information.  I agree, this show rocks.


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## LuYangShih (Oct 4, 2003)

Well, it seems tonights episode will be part one of a two part story.  I am looking forward to it.  You know, I think they have done a great job developing the characters so far, particularly Raven, Starfire and Robin.  Beast Boy has been alright, but I think Cyborg really needs more work.  On the other hand, maybe that is just because he is less complex than the other characters.


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## Nightfall (Oct 4, 2003)

That might be it Lu. I do agree Starfire and Raven are my favorites. (Course I'm a guy so whadda I know?  )


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## LuYangShih (Oct 5, 2003)

Raven and Starfire are my favorites, too.  Raven is by far the best and most enjoyable character for me, while Starfire is just plain fun.  Tonights episode was interesting. 



Spoiler



Slade manipulated the Teen Titans flawlessly.  I have to wonder how long it will be before they begin to learn more about him and his motivations.  Forcing Robin to become his protege was certainly unexpected.


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## Nightfall (Oct 6, 2003)

Spoiler



Yes that was unexpected but I think I like the way they've made Slade. The "anti-batman". He's all about finding and recruiting people to his cause. Not entirely sure WHAT that is but the manpulations were flawless. Have to wait and see how this turns out...


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## Holy Bovine (Oct 7, 2003)

I have only managed to catch this show off and on. I have seen one entire epsiode (and bits of about 4 others). Now I know when it shows here (Mondays at 7pm) but I have the feeling that we here in Canada are a season behind the US. The espisode I saw tonight was brand new (supposedly) 
 and involved Beast Boy (I really wish they had kept his original name of Changleing) and Cyborg going into Raven's mind and dealing with her inner psyche. I thourghly enjoyed this as it was much more than a typical 'bash the villian' superhero cartoon. Some great interaction between Raven and Beast Boy and it advanced their characters and their comradiere a great deal. How many seasons of TT have been made? Are any out on DVD? Have its ratings been very good? I love the animation style of this cartoon - energetic and colourful.


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## WizarDru (Oct 7, 2003)

It sounds like you're only about three or four episodes behind the new releases.  I have no idea how well it's been doing in the ratings, but it's in a block with a new Jackie Chan Adventures on Saturdays at 9 PM, both of which are followed by a new hour-long Justice League, so it can't be doing too poorly (which is then in turn followed by new Rurouni Kenshins, and so on).

The best episodes are yet to come, as they start establishing more continuity, and devloping the characters more.


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## Holy Bovine (Oct 7, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> It sounds like you're only about three or four episodes behind the new releases. I have no idea how well it's been doing in the ratings, but it's in a block with a new Jackie Chan Adventures on Saturdays at 9 PM, both of which are followed by a new hour-long Justice League, so it can't be doing too poorly (which is then in turn followed by new Rurouni Kenshins, and so on).
> 
> The best episodes are yet to come, as they start establishing more continuity, and devloping the characters more.



 Thanks WizarDru!  I'm not too far behind the rest of you then.  

 An hour long Justice League? When did they start that?  (or do you mean 2 1/2 hour episodes back to back?)


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## LuYangShih (Oct 7, 2003)

The show is brand new.  They have only done around ten episodes so far.  Teen Titans is probably my favorite show on Cartoon Network right now.  It is incredibly entertaining.  

As for the rest, they started the hour long Justice Leagues just last week.  I must say, they did a great job improving their portrayal of Superman.  Flash is still little more than a glorified sidekick, though.


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## Uzumaki (Oct 7, 2003)

Holy Bovine said:
			
		

> I really wish they had kept his original name of Changeling.




Actually, Gar was Beast Boy first. Marv Wolfman renamed him Changeling pretty early on, though. He's back to Beast Boy now, if I recall correctly.


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## Nightfall (Oct 7, 2003)

I think they are wokring on making the show more "focused" and that might detract from the Flash's ability. Still I'm sure this season of JL will be MUCH better than last years, if certain rumors/spoilers hold to form.


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## LuYangShih (Oct 7, 2003)

Bucky (Captain Americas sidekick) could lay the JL cartoon Flash out no problem.  Flash gets knocked out by a damned right hook from GL, for crying out loud.  Not to mention in the same episode he is unable to catch a van that is going at most 120 MPH.  You know a character has been destroyed when he cannot even excel at his supposed specialty.  But that is JL, and for another thread.

Beast Boy sounds better than Changeling, I think.  Changeling is simply too generic.  Although Cyborg is not exactly unique, either.    



Spoiler



I agree about Slade.  His manipulations are truly classic.  I would like to think that the Teen Titans will truly be required to work as a team to defeat him.  Part of the problem seems to be that Robins obsession continually splits them apart when they face Slade.  Obviously, Robin should have a change of heart given his current experiences.


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## Nightfall (Oct 7, 2003)

Spoiler



Well if he doesn't after all this, he needs his head examined. In any case I do agree, only a concerted effort can take down Slade. However the man is great at having backups and other ways to keep his enemies at bay. So I don't think we'll see him fail just yet.


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## LuYangShih (Oct 7, 2003)

Spoiler



Well, since Slade is the central villian for a developing series, I would concur with that assessment.  I would like to see H.I.V.E. return within the next few episodes, as they were quite entertaining.  Certainly the best villians the show has seen thus far other than Slade and Blackfire.  My favorite episodes are where they use the villians as a  backdrop to develop the characters, though.  I still think the Raven and Starfire body switching episode is the best so far.


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## WizarDru (Oct 7, 2003)

Yeah, the Justice League's are really two half-hour episodes back to back with the credits shaved off...but since the episodes have already been two or three episode stories, that works fine.

It's interesting to see how they introduce classic villains and characters of the DCU into JL.  This week's 'villain' was never actually named on camera, although his name showed up on a paper displayed prominently during the episode.  He also looks nothing like his comic-equivalent, but that's not suprising, given how retro that character was.

I'm really curious if we're going to see a Starro episode in the near future.  That could be fun.

With respect to the Teen Titans, they've made no reference to any continuity outside their own, and I believe the producers made it clear that it was intentional.  Technically, this series _might_ take place in the same world at Batman, Superman and JL...but we have no way of knowing.  They've done nothing to contradict or confirm it, and may be still deciding themselves.


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## LuYangShih (Oct 7, 2003)

I would prefer the continuity be kept seperate.  I never particularly cared for any of the other DC cartoons, and Teen Titans should not be associated with them.


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## Nightfall (Oct 7, 2003)

Nah probably not. I am interested in the one that's upcoming: A better world saga. THAT will be fun.  Can't spoil it for you but I think I saw the promo for it.


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## LuYangShih (Oct 12, 2003)

Well, once again Teen Titans exceeded my expectations.  That was a wonderful episode in all respects, and a nice ending to the first run of premiere episodes.  I am impressed by the fact each episode since the first improves and betters that which was done previously.  I am looking forward to seeing more episodes in the future.


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## Nightfall (Oct 12, 2003)

Lu,

Well actually there were supposed to be a couple more eps before they did Mad Mod and then Appretince(sp). So more will be coming, just not right away.


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## LuYangShih (Jan 1, 2004)

Anyone see "Car Trouble" other than me?  I thought it was one of the best episodes yet, and the art was really fantastic.  I loved the character interaction between Cyborg and Raven.  They showed two new episodes back in November, but not at the regular time, so I suppose most of you may have missed it.  They did show it again last week, and the new season is starting on Jan 10th.  Should be great.


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## Nightfall (Jan 2, 2004)

I am certainly looking forward to it. From the spoilage I got, there's going to be some betrayals running around here.


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