# Read #4750 last night



## Zulkir (Jul 22, 2002)

Folks,

Just wanted to say a few words about the submissions.

1) The number of "unreadable" submissions is very low (less than 1%).

2) The vast majority (probably 80%) are very solid and are equal to most of the settings already on the market.

3) There are a number that are outstandingly original and interesting but for one reason or another would not make a good campaign setting. But I would love to read the novel!

4) A number of "themes" are apparent. Its likely that aspects of the final pick will have similarities to something you wrote.

5) No matter how comfortable the chair more than an hour sitting and reading submissions in a big binder gets uncomfortable.

AV


----------



## Desdichado (Jul 22, 2002)

Wow, that's great news!  Can't wait to see the final product...


----------



## Friadoc (Jul 22, 2002)

Anthony,

...you know, I feel for you and the other judges - as I know that no matter how uncomfortable I find the wait in all this, the reading and trying to give a fair looksey at the submissions has to be a lot more gruelling.

Anyhow, so as not to seem like a bleeding sycophant - hurry up!


----------



## Enkhidu (Jul 22, 2002)

Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you.

Just out of curiousity, with the nearing 5K submissions you've read so far, how many more (approximately) would you say that you've got left? And of the # that you've covered already, what percentage would you say have really caught your eye?

And if answering these questions takes time away from readin submissions - forget I asked! You've got far too much to do already!


----------



## Heap Thaumaturgist (Jul 22, 2002)

This bodes not well for the Heap.  I'm sure I was as original as the next guy who did the same idea only different.

I, personally, wouldn't trust my own ability to grab a great setting after hearing sixty Flying Islands settings in the last four hours.  One would sound much like any other at that point, and pretty tired.  But, with 20K or more submissions, I'm sure EVERYTHING is going to be done quite a few times over.  It'd be impossible to find anything "fresh" and "eye catching" after about two hours.

Other than, of course, my own submission.  It is, after all, a work of pure genius.  :-\

At least there were no Flying Islands in it.  

--HT


----------



## alsih2o (Jul 22, 2002)

your post leaves me confused, do we start with the bribes and kickbacks now? or closer to the "pick" date?


----------



## Zulkir (Jul 22, 2002)

Enkhidu said:
			
		

> *Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you.
> 
> Just out of curiousity, with the nearing 5K submissions you've read so far, how many more (approximately) would you say that you've got left?
> *



I'm not quite halfway.



			
				Enkhidu said:
			
		

> *And of the # that you've covered already, what percentage would you say have really caught your eye?
> *



Have really really caught my eye and would make a good campaign setting? About 2-3 dozen. But remember I'm not the only one reading.

AV


----------



## trix (Jul 22, 2002)

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> I'm not quite halfway.
> 
> Have really really caught my eye and would make a good campaign setting? About 2-3 dozen. But remember I'm not the only one reading.
> ...





Do all those on the comm read "all" the settings?

If you're not quite halfway, then there are 10000 to be read by everyone.

Since we cant submit anymore proposals:  Are there any intresting things that you personally like to look for?  (Look for more fluff, less crunch.  twists on magic systems, twists on fluffy world economics?)

Well, enjoy... regretably you'll probably be going slower the more you read (there's only so much u can read in one day).

Very Important Question:  Are tehre alot of flying island settings, or is that just a few taking the micky out of the setting in the forums?

-Tim


----------



## Pielorinho (Jul 22, 2002)

D'oh!  I totally missed the deadline for the contest.

Listen, since y'all aren't even halfway done reading them, is there any chance I could still write mine up and slip it into the stack?  I could probably have it done by the end of the week.

And it's really cool:  A World Rulled by Dragons!

Thanks!
Daniel


----------



## Pielorinho (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: Re: Read #4750 last night*


----------



## Tuerny (Jul 22, 2002)

Are you still going to be making your announcement the first week of August?


----------



## Chrysoula (Jul 23, 2002)

*Yay!*

Sounds like good news! I still wonder if the quality will support more than 10 proposal requests, and what we'll end up hearing from WotC on the matter. Just a press release saying 'responses have gone out, good work, kids, you'll hear about the final winner in October'?


----------



## Mouseferatu (Jul 23, 2002)

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> 
> Just wanted to say a few words about the submissions.
> 
> ...




Well, this isn't good.  I was counting on a huge chunk of the competition being knocked out of the running for these exact reasons.  

Darn.  Now I have to hope that my ideas actually get by on _merit_...


----------



## mmadsen (Jul 23, 2002)

> 1) The number of "unreadable" submissions is very low (less than 1%).
> 
> 2) The vast majority (probably 80%) are very solid and are equal to most of the settings already on the market.



Sturgeon's Law doesn't hold?  I am honestly shocked!  (Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.)  I was worried about the 10%, the works of people with real talent.  Now I find out 80% of the entries are solid!  The pros aren't the only competition!


----------



## hong (Jul 23, 2002)

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 2) The vast majority (probably 80%) are very solid and are equal to most of the settings already on the market.
> *




That bad, huh?


----------



## trix (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: Read #4750 last night*



			
				mmadsen said:
			
		

> *
> Sturgeon's Law doesn't hold?  I am honestly shocked!  (Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.)  I was worried about the 10%, the works of people with real talent.  Now I find out 80% of the entries are solid!  The pros aren't the only competition! *




Hehe, lol@ hong.

Combining:



> 2) The vast majority (probably 80%) are very solid and are equal to most of the settings already on the market.






> Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.




Implies:

a) Most of the settings already on the market are crap.
b) We as consumers cant tell the difference.
b) Crap sells.

This is actually good since, it implies that we might get something that are better than the settings on the market which implies that we should get something other than crap.  Also, The winner should be 'brilliant' and fly off the shelves.

-Tim


----------



## Fathead (Jul 23, 2002)

*Will my submission be overlooked?*

I was running to the last minute sending out my submission.  In a flurry of productivity, I condensed my campaign ideas into the prescribed format, and rushed it out the door (it left the Cincinnati airport post office a little before midnight).  

It wasn't until I arrived at the post office, that I realized it had been printed on used paper that had been in my printer *groan*.

I have plenty of excuses why it was late (not learning about the competition until the last minute, attending a funeral 8 hours away, and then rushing back to perform my function as a groomsman in a friend's wedding)...but I'm fairly confident that the judges aren't interested in excuses.

What I was wondering was this:

Will my mistake cause my submission to be overlooked?


----------



## isirga eth (Jul 24, 2002)

*bump*

bump


----------



## ToddSchumacher (Jul 24, 2002)

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 2) The vast majority (probably 80%) are very solid and are equal to most of the settings already on the market.
> 
> AV *




This is the reason I didn't enter my Campaign setting. For years and years I ran my little D&D group, without reading ANY of the novels or published settings beforehand, just going with what was in my head. Then about a year or two ago I broke down and read the two main Dragonlance books, I nearly cried.

A great Cataclysm.

A powerful group of Wizards with tests to join.

Ect. Ect.

As I read more fantasy, the more I realized how cliche and derivitive my world was. So when I saw the open call, I thought "cool" but NO WAY was my world original enough to compete effectivly.

I am looking forward to see what comes out of this little contest, should be interesting.


----------



## isirga eth (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: Read #4750 last night*



			
				ToddSchumacher said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I am looking forward to see what comes out of this little contest, should be interesting. *




Well, legally it is not a...

um, never mind. Let's not go there again.


----------



## Ds Da Man (Jul 24, 2002)

Thats amazing! I was just going to put a thread on this very same thing. See AV, it a mystical connection. There's no need to go any further. 

Anyway, the only reason I would care about it being a contest or not is tax purposes. I think with a contest, the taxes are a lot higher. Being paid for normal work or services is a lot better.

Thanks for letting us know AV.


----------



## Zappo (Jul 24, 2002)

Hey... I have a few fairly important questions. Are you going to announce the chosen ten publicly? Or will they be contacted privately at first?

In the latter case, will you use email (if available) or snail mail? Will you expect the contacted to answer within a relatively short time?

The reasons behind these confused questions is simply that I'll be on holiday for the first two weeks of August, without Internet, without telephone, and without a snail mail addy.


----------



## Undead Pete (Jul 25, 2002)

I once thought I had a chance....

At least I know my idea is in the 80%....
but 
There are no flying islands in my submission
It is not a post-apocalyptic world
[/list=a] 

....so I figure my chances suck now.

Is there any possibility you'll be asking more than 10 folks to submit a 10-pager now, since the number of good submissions is much higher than expected??


----------



## MeepoTheMighty (Jul 25, 2002)

Zappo said:
			
		

> *Hey... I have a few fairly important questions. Are you going to announce the chosen ten publicly? Or will they be contacted privately at first?
> 
> In the latter case, will you use email (if available) or snail mail? Will you expect the contacted to answer within a relatively short time?
> 
> The reasons behind these confused questions is simply that I'll be on holiday for the first two weeks of August, without Internet, without telephone, and without a snail mail addy.  *




In the even that Zappo wins and you are unable to contact him, I hereby volunteer to accept the $100,000 on his behalf.


----------



## DungeonKeeperUK (Jul 25, 2002)

You know for some reason I thought announcements were being made the first week of July..... all that sobbing like a girl because I didn't hear anything..... well suppose it will be good practice for the first week in August....


----------



## Avatar (Jul 25, 2002)

DM UK:

They were originally going to be responding by July 3, but they got overwhelmed so they pushed it back to early August.

Given the fact that AV is only about half way done and August starts in a little over a week, I wouldn't be surprised if it got pushed back again.


----------



## isirga eth (Jul 26, 2002)

*bump*

bump


----------



## trix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Chances suck?*



			
				Undead Pete said:
			
		

> *I once thought I had a chance....
> 
> At least I know my idea is in the 80%....
> but
> ...






I dont figure how you figure.

To pin everything on a flying islands theme is odd.  I take the mickey out of the flying islands theme because it doesnt make sense.

Why would a post apocalyptic world do better?  What about a pre-apocalyptic world, on the verge of an apocalypse by a greater evil?

Even better no?  Since the players know there is a grand threat, so the question becomes: Who was really behind the kidnapping, etc.  In a pre-apocalypse setting, the hero's get to encounter sidekick EvilBob and bob's henchtrolls.  (In LotR, it was Saruman).

Etc,

-Tim


----------



## mythusmage (Jul 26, 2002)

Because the "Evil Villain's Out to Conquer the World and We've Got to Stop Him" setting has been done to death. It's _OLD!_Folks want something new.

Something like the "Well, The Evil Villain's Been Roundly Trounced, But The World's Still in a Horrid Mess, So I Guess We Get to Put the Place Back Together" setting. The big bad's been thoroughly whomped, you now get to go and put things aright again. And it won't be easy.

Besides, once the Evil Villain's been discombobulated, what else is there to do? Kinda hard to find a plot line to replace the old one. Might as well pack it in and start a new campaign.

But, if the Evil Villain got his (but good) _before_the game started, the new heroes start out afresh.

My thoughts on the matter.


----------



## mmadsen (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Chances suck?*



> Why would a post apocalyptic world do better?



A post-apocalyptic world is a Wild West world, without strong governments and other "proper authorities".  Everything is a wild frontier, and each new town is its own microcosm.  That makes for good adventuring.


----------



## hong (Jul 26, 2002)

*Adventuring in Austria*



			
				mmadsen said:
			
		

> *
> A post-apocalyptic world is a Wild West world,*




Perth



> * without strong governments *




Brisbane



> *and other "proper authorities".  *




Sydney



> *Everything is a wild frontier, *




Darwin



> *and each new town is its own microcosm. *




Hobart



> * That makes for good adventuring. *




MORE BEER!


----------



## BiggusGeekus (Jul 26, 2002)

Additionally, hong, Oz is home to some of the most dangerous species known to man (no, not rugby players, I'm talking about the things that are genetically non-human).  Not to mention the ones that are extinct.  I once heard tell of giant carniverous kangaroos, which apparently are fun to joke about until they gutted you.

d20: Austrailia.

So ... is beer a Material Component or a Divine Focus?


----------



## Talaysen (Jul 26, 2002)

Beer is a material component. Now SCOTCH is a divine focus!

...I don't drink, mind, but I have to say something on behalf of those of Scottish descent.


----------



## Savage Wombat (Jul 26, 2002)

*Pratchett in-joke*

(ahem)


"Some of the sheep."


</in joke>


----------



## Undead Pete (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Chances suck?*



			
				trix said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I dont figure how you figure.
> 
> ...




I was making a joke....obviously a really bad one since you didn't seem to get it.

There have been so many posts on "flying islands" and "post-apocalyptic worlds", so when AV said:



> *4) A number of "themes" are apparent. Its likely that aspects of the final pick will have similarities to something you wrote.*




I automatically had the horrifying vision that the winning entry would be a post apocalyptic world with demon infestations on flying islands.

 

Personally I think "flying islands" is one of the most inane, unoriginal ideas out there, but I've already stated that before in other posts.

<SIGH>

I hate when I have to explain my lame-ass humor


----------



## mythusmage (Jul 27, 2002)

Talaysen said:
			
		

> *Beer is a material component. Now SCOTCH is a divine focus!
> *




_Almost_there.

Scotch is a material component. Glen Livet is a divine focus.


----------



## Aaron L (Jul 27, 2002)

OT

I watched this thing on the travel channel one time, about taking trips through the Australian (Austrian) desert, and all of the things you had to take with you or you'd die.

If you did one thing wrong, you'd die.
If you left your car, you'd die.
If you stopped to go to the bathroom on the way there, you'd die. 

Man, it made Australia (Austria) look like Athas.


----------



## dreamthief (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Re: Chances suck?*



			
				Undead Pete said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Personally I think "flying islands" is one of the most inane, unoriginal ideas out there, but I've already stated that before in other posts.
> 
> ...




Well they have a long history. "Flying islands" are present in Jonathan Swift's Gulliver Travels, as espoused in the land of Laputa, the basis of the Studio Ghibli movie of the same name. If done well, I'm quite open to the idea.


----------



## Zappo (Jul 27, 2002)

Aaron L said:
			
		

> *If you did one thing wrong, you'd die.
> If you left your car, you'd die.
> If you stopped to go to the bathroom on the way there, you'd die.*



Sounds cool!


----------



## Moon_Goddess (Jul 27, 2002)

Aaron L said:
			
		

> *
> Man, it made Australia (Austria) look like Athas. *





I have to go there now more than ever!


----------



## Ghostwind (Jul 27, 2002)

Hmmm...  Roughly ten thousand entries with 8000 of them being good enough for consideration.  That number is one heck of a lot higher than I had predicted.  Oh well, one can still always hold out hope...


----------



## Enkhidu (Jul 27, 2002)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *Hmmm...  Roughly ten thousand entries with 8000 of them being good enough for consideration.  That number is one heck of a lot higher than I had predicted.  Oh well, one can still always hold out hope... *




Well, according to AV's reply to the question "how many caught your eye," that's only partly true. at the halfway point, he had said he found between 2 and 3 dozen submissions that both caught his eye and would make a good setting. Doubling that, you get 50 to 70 out of 10,000. That's the number everyone should be looking toward, but that's assuming that my theory on how the judging is going is right...


----------



## Scribe Ineti (Jul 30, 2002)

bump


----------



## Churchill (Jul 30, 2002)

*Dreaded Deadline Doom*

So, it's nearing the first week in August... Are they going to make the pushed back deadline for wading through the sea of submissions?


----------



## apsuman (Jul 30, 2002)

You know, I kind of feel like Willy wonka looking for that golden ticket.

g!


----------



## Ghostwind (Jul 30, 2002)

> *You know, I kind of feel like Willy wonka looking for that golden ticket.*




Oh, now that's exactly what we all need...  Some twelve year old kid hits the perfect idea and winds up being picked after sitting down for less than 30 minutes to write something up...  You'd hear the sounds of egos shattering all over the world...


----------



## Hakkenshi (Jul 30, 2002)

Any chance we might get an official update on this?
I'm beginning to develop a permanent twitch from the suspense...


----------



## Ds Da Man (Jul 30, 2002)

Just a (bump) in the night, hoping AV will come back and tell us they're done.


----------



## dema (Jul 31, 2002)

What a BUMP?


----------



## Ds Da Man (Jul 31, 2002)

If you like that (BUMP), here's a bumpty, bump, bump, that'll really knock your socks off. BBBUUUMMMPPP!!!!


----------



## orbitalfreak (Jul 31, 2002)

did someone just BUMP this thread?


----------



## dema (Jul 31, 2002)

Has anyone BUMPED in to AV?  I wonder what number he's reading, and if my 6 pt font 4000 word essay was a bit overboard.


----------



## Hakkenshi (Jul 31, 2002)

I can't *believe* you people would stoop to BUMPing this thread in the hope that someone would answer!!!


----------



## Taladas (Jul 31, 2002)

Of course this is a sad desperate attempt to get a reply. Otherwise known as a 

bump


----------



## River (Jul 31, 2002)

Bump!

Zulkir man!  whats the deal?  Am I bound for fortune and glory or what?




River  -->Proud creator of the "Post apocolyptic world of high fantasy where demonic dragons bedevil the world from their flying islands!"


----------



## herald (Jul 31, 2002)

With all this bumping going on it's begining to sound like a vollyball game. 

Bump....


----------



## Ghostwind (Jul 31, 2002)

Ok, can't resist...

SPIKE!!!


----------



## Ds Da Man (Jul 31, 2002)

Blocked and bumped!!!!!!


----------



## herald (Jul 31, 2002)

I place for the setup!........


----------



## Duvall (Jul 31, 2002)

*Not to make anymore work for people*

But since there will probably be some kind of short list before they decide the final ten, would it be possible to notify the other short list people that they indeed "came close."  I'm not talking some wonderful little critique of the submission, just a slightly different form letter that says, "While your work was good enough to make the short list, you unfortunately were not chosen....".  Call it a consolation prize, but at least some people would know that they were on the right track.


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 1, 2002)

*Gack, a short list?*

Reminds me of short bus.

Hello tardo, you weren't quite good enough. Drive thru.

(This is a shameless bump, btw)


----------



## Ds Da Man (Aug 1, 2002)

BBBUUUMMMPPP!!!!!!! Excellant setup!


----------



## alsih2o (Aug 1, 2002)

BUM


 (my therapist is always telling me i need to follow thru, but i just can't seem to)


----------



## dema (Aug 1, 2002)

Ok, Sorry for continuing the BUMP thing.  It's not polite I guess, I need to be taught some net manners. I apologize for BUMPING this thread.


----------



## orbitalfreak (Aug 1, 2002)

the original poster of this post said:
			
		

> * BUMP *




and 

GRIND!


----------



## mythusmage (Aug 1, 2002)

If this keeps up this thread will get *bump*ed off.


----------



## Undead Pete (Aug 1, 2002)

I don't get it.

(subliminal BUMP)


----------



## herald (Aug 1, 2002)

Yous see Undead Pete a bump is the the message board way of saying, we don't want this message to go away....
Oh, wait a sec..., your were just being sarcastic...!!!!!

Hold on for a moment, I got to server this volley. 

Bump...


----------



## Taladas (Aug 1, 2002)

ba da bump


----------



## nopantsyet (Aug 1, 2002)

mythusmage said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Almostthere.
> 
> Scotch is a material component. Glen Livet is a divine focus. *




Man...I guess that makes Lagavulin a greater divine artifact.


----------



## River (Aug 1, 2002)

Why is this thread not at the top of the list?

Oh!  Never mind...


River


----------



## Taren Nighteyes (Aug 1, 2002)

Has Anthony abandoned our impatient souls???

Come on man!  We need an update!


Taren Nighteyes



P.S.  I hope my tone does not negatively influence your decision concerning my entry.


----------



## Savage Wombat (Aug 1, 2002)

C'mon, man, we're dyin' out here.  Throw us a frickin' bone already.

Or at least a picture of your temps' limp, withered bodies stretched out over the piles of envelopes.


----------



## Ashtal (Aug 1, 2002)

Come on, guys.  I'm sure he and the rest of the staff involved are working hard at this, and will give us a shout as soon as he can. 

Until then ... look ... *takes some colored paper, and with a few careful folds, creates a bird* ... oragami!


----------



## Ds Da Man (Aug 1, 2002)

So whats ye sayin', no more BUMPS????


----------



## alsih2o (Aug 1, 2002)

i, personally, am amazed the "i got in! didn't you guys win?" hoaxes haven't already started


----------



## Duvall (Aug 1, 2002)

*legion*

I think that's because the people who would pull such inane stunts have too short an attention span to put off their malicious humor for several weeks.  Those thinking they might have a chance in hell, on the other hand, are too on edge to do anything but bump threads.


----------



## Chromnos (Aug 1, 2002)

Yeah-

If they had a sweating smiley face I'd put it out there but it doesn't look like one of my options.

But since we're all just chewing the cud in hopes that someone in the know will notice this thread and cast another blade of grass to pin our hopes on, I thought I'd throw something out there.

Me, I submitted one. But most I've talked to say they've submitted anywhere from 3 to 37 (37 ARRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!). How many actual authors do you think there are within this 10,523 submissions pool?

-C


----------



## River (Aug 2, 2002)

Chromnos said:
			
		

> *Yeah-
> 
> Me, I submitted one. But most I've talked to say they've submitted anywhere from 3 to 37 (37 ARRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!). How many actual authors do you think there are within this 10,523 submissions pool?
> 
> -C *




I have no Idea, but I'll profess my ignorance for yet another chance to bump this thread!

Zulkir!  Save us!

River


----------



## Taren Nighteyes (Aug 2, 2002)

There is no Zulkir, only Zool(sp?)!

Oh Zooly, you nut you.  I want to talk to Anthony....is he in there?

Taren Nighteyes

(I know, a poor rip off of an absolutely classic comedy...but hey....I did my best!)


----------



## herald (Aug 2, 2002)

Fault!

Damn, I have to serve again....


Bump.

Anyone know the score of this volley ball game.


----------



## Duvall (Aug 2, 2002)

*legion*

I think we are behind

*set*


----------



## alsih2o (Aug 2, 2002)

over 4000 "views", think folks are nervous?


----------



## Duvall (Aug 2, 2002)

Yes


BUMP


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 2, 2002)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *Oh, now that's exactly what we all need...  Some twelve year old kid hits the perfect idea and winds up being picked after sitting down for less than 30 minutes to write something up...  You'd hear the sounds of egos shattering all over the world... *



"I've got a golden ticket!"


----------



## Katerek (Aug 2, 2002)

Rather than gratuitous bumping, perhaps we could actually have a conversation?

What would you like to see in a new world setting?

I for one would like to see a departure from the norm, less of an earth taste.  It is my feelings that earth cultures have been done to death.

Although I never got to play much, I always thought Athas was a really cool departure from the norm.

An ice planet perhaps?  Or a discworld planet.  Or something new?  How hard WOULD it be to do something truly original that isn't fantasy fiction derivative?


----------



## herald (Aug 2, 2002)

The question is, can you get a setting like that, that will also generate novels, IMHO.

I know it's a weird thought, but it exists.

And because I can't help myself.

BUMP


----------



## Hakkenshi (Aug 2, 2002)

Yikes, that Ice planet idea really scares me because I think it's cool and I didn't think about it...


----------



## Fathead (Aug 2, 2002)

If you like the Ice Planet idea, check out these novels by J.V.Jones:

Caverns of Black Ice
Fortress of Grey Ice

Jones is an INCREDIBLY engaging writer, and both of those novels focus on an arctic north setting.  Read Caverns first, since Fortress is the 2nd book (I'm guessing that it will be a trilogy).

As for campaign settings, I'd prefer to stay with a fantasy setting.  But, I'd like to see something darker...and with less "high magic".


----------



## Hakkenshi (Aug 2, 2002)

Adventuring on Hoth, think about it 

Thanks for the suggestions, Fathead, I'll definitely check those books out!


----------



## fett527 (Aug 2, 2002)

A specific sort of terrain like an ice world is too limited.  Look at FR.  You have the icy slopes of the Spine of the World, to the massive cityscape of Waterdeep, to the jungles of Chult, and so on.  FR was majorly successful because it had this flexibility.  I think they are looking for something similar with enough of a twist to make it original.

Whose serve is it?


----------



## CRG (Aug 2, 2002)

Mine.

I think the settings need to be either (a) more like earth than FR or (b) less like earth than FR.

Simplistic, maybe.  I think a more 'traditional' setting might sell - with strong undertones of earch culture.  I also think a well-done yet strange world (a la Athas) would sell.

Me?  My floating islands were MADE of ice....


(see no bump required, just a conversation)


----------



## Lady Dragon (Aug 2, 2002)

They already tried the harsh one terrain-type world with Dark sun I don't think they will go there again.They will pick a traditional style world that is creative and ingenious. However don't be surprised if some of the runner ups are done as one time shot type gameworlds. And they might be unusual such as flying islands, one terrain (ice,desert,seas),or bizarre.I think it is the people,places,and politics that will be the determining factor.


----------



## apsuman (Aug 2, 2002)

on mine the floating islands had time run backwards!

All Floating Island characters FIPCs and FINPCs start at 20th level and advance backward.

g!


----------



## 2WS-Steve (Aug 2, 2002)

Starting at 20th level and advancing backwards sounds cool; make it a Memento campaign...


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 2, 2002)

Lol, Memento campaign.  Ugh.


Actually I really like the 'Ice Planet' theorem.  Dunno why 'Fire Planet' doesn't strike me with the same sort of wonder....


----------



## herald (Aug 2, 2002)

Set


----------



## Maraxle (Aug 3, 2002)

I think an ice planet would be neat.

Another neat thing would be if the polar regions of the planet were the source of magic.  The closer you get to the poles, the stronger magic becomes.  At the equator, it's practically magic-free.


----------



## Katerek (Aug 3, 2002)

Damn, I wonder if anyone submitted an ice planet idea?  Mine was a cold planet, but it was no hoth.

The JV Jones books are good, personally I think the Baker's Boy was a better trilogy, it was set in the same world, further south though.

The polar magic thing is a REALLY neat concept, I think I am going to find some way to hijack that into one of the nine dominions of my gaming world.

Personally, I think that if they did some micro settings that would be great.  That would work for me.  One or two one shot settings a year, kind of like that Jakandor (?) thing they did a few years ago, but actually good.

Looking back, Athas had so much potential.  The setting was great for the most part, I think it was Second Edition that didn't fit.  I think a 3e Athas would be really tight.  Lose the carnivorous halflings though, that was a bit much.


----------



## River (Aug 3, 2002)

Weird settings are too much of a one note pony to be successful in the long term.  "Ice planet" too simplistic.  Now an Ice planet type setting might win, but only because of the engaging plot of the polar dwarves mining glaciers for "divine waters" trapped in pockets between the strata of the ice.

There is much more to a "setting" than geography.

River


----------



## Glyfair (Aug 3, 2002)

mythusmage said:
			
		

> *Because the "Evil Villain's Out to Conquer the World and We've Got to Stop Him" setting has been done to death. It's OLD!Folks want something new.
> 
> Something like the "Well, The Evil Villain's Been Roundly Trounced, But The World's Still in a Horrid Mess, So I Guess We Get to Put the Place Back Together" setting. The big bad's been thoroughly whomped, you now get to go and put things aright again. And it won't be easy.
> 
> ...




I like this.  If I was running a campign like this one of the themes would deal with occasionally teasing the villian making returning in someway or another (cliches #4-23).  One of the long term goals the heros can end up achieving is finding out that there is *NO* way that the villain can return.  He's gone forever. 

A little bit of what the players expect, a little of bit of what they don't.

Glyfair of Glamis


----------



## I'm A Banana (Aug 3, 2002)

What about an evil that can never be beaten.

Challenged? Yes. Faught? Yes. Destroyed in localized areas? Maybe for a time.

But as long as dark thoughts linger on the edges of humanity, the true villain will never be layed to waste.

You cannot win. You can only try. You can never obliterate all the evil from the world.

Ever.

That's one of the big themes of my submitted world. There's others, of course. Many.


----------



## Numion (Aug 3, 2002)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> *What about an evil that can never be beaten.
> 
> Challenged? Yes. Faught? Yes. Destroyed in localized areas? Maybe for a time.
> 
> ...




But, but.. they've already published Cthulhu D20


----------



## Staffan (Aug 3, 2002)

*Why iceplanets don't work...*

Ice planets are bad because they seriously cut down on the cheesecake potential in the illustrations


----------



## Tuerny (Aug 3, 2002)

Yes, but the ice planet will *always* be cold adding advantages in other areas. ;-)


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 3, 2002)

Please.

Like cheesecake potential has ever stopped artists from putting scantily clad wenches on the cover of anything.

Instead of a silk/metal/chain bikini, they give them a fur one.  See? Easy.


----------



## Rexfelis (Aug 3, 2002)

*anything can work*

Saying an iceworld or a flying island world or a world where orcs are the dominant species won't/can't work is too general a statement.  Anything CAN work, but it boils down to a good story well told.

You can find plenty of examples of this in movies and novels.  "Oh, another book about a detective hunting down a serial killer...this has been told to death and won't work."...yet inventive writers still find a way compose a compelling story with the same old premise, and sometimes they even throw in a genuine twist.

I hope this holds true for those setting proposals selected for the next round...whenever the heck they get around to announcing it!  Whoever said that anticipation is better than receiving the payoff was full of hot air.


----------



## Norris (Aug 3, 2002)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> *What about an evil that can never be beaten.
> 
> Challenged? Yes. Fought? Yes. Destroyed in localized areas? Maybe for a time.
> 
> ...




This is probably one of the best distillations of what a setting HAS to have... a continuing enemy / evil/ nemesis. Lord of The Rings kinda flops once you destroy the Ring. It needs an enemy that can't be totally conquered. Look at the continuing real world settings Ireland. Israel. Each side believes it is right and won't give up or compromise (at least not enough). 

But then again, 20 years ago, I would have included the US-Soviet conflict... with no way it could ever be resolved. And now look... its gone!

Anyway, my hypothesis is that they'll start calling prospective winners next Friday (that would be August 9). If they aren't home, they'll just trash the proposal and go on to the next one.

If they have a long list, they could keep calling new names over the weekend.


----------



## 2WS-Steve (Aug 3, 2002)

I doubt they'll trash the submissions for people who aren't home. John Tynes, Monte Cook, Bruce Cordell, etc. etc. will all be at GenCon....


----------



## alsih2o (Aug 3, 2002)

Norris said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> Anyway, my hypothesis is that they'll start calling prospective winners next Friday (that would be August 9). If they aren't home, they'll just trash the proposal and go on to the next one.
> ...




 i see this as a little ridiculous, i would assume that they are smart enuf to know that most of the folks worth hiring are not sitting around doing naught during normal work hours....


----------



## River (Aug 3, 2002)

Norris said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Anyway, my hypothesis is that they'll start calling prospective winners next Friday (that would be August 9). If they aren't home, they'll just trash the proposal and go on to the next one.
> 
> If they have a long list, they could keep calling new names over the weekend. *




My guess is that the winners have already been contact, or will be shortly.  

Wizards might do well to circulate the 10 1 page proposals at Gen-Con <Names removed if the authors wish> to pump up interest.

River


----------



## Norris (Aug 3, 2002)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *
> 
> i see this as a little ridiculous, i would assume that they are smart enuf to know that most of the folks worth hiring are not sitting around doing naught during normal work hours.... *




It was, of course, intended to be ridiculous. Then again it was inspired by a story about TSR.

They were doing layoffs. Some of the workers knew they were coming. The phone would ring in Worker A's cubicle, and he wouldn't answer it. It would stop, and then it would ring in Worker B's cubicle. He did answer it, and he was askedto come up to management, and was laid off. And so on through the list of phone extensions.


----------



## Gargoyle (Aug 3, 2002)

River said:
			
		

> *
> 
> My guess is that the winners have already been contact, or will be shortly.
> 
> ...




Since they don't own that material, they won't.


----------



## Micar Sin (Aug 4, 2002)

Wel, actually....My partner and I *did* do an ice world. It's not entirly ice covered... still has large areas near the equator free of ice...


----------



## Sir Trent (Aug 4, 2002)

*I have a guess*

I'd be willing to be that they'll notify the ten winners on the Wednesday before Gen Con because most of the Wizard people will be there and won't want that hanging over them when they get back. 
Of course, my natural inclination is to be wrong about everything.


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 4, 2002)

Really? I'm kinda thinking they'll wait until about 4-5 pm on Friday afternoon to post details, so they will allow people full freakage time over the weekend, and be fresh on Monday.


----------



## EliasVaughn (Aug 4, 2002)

*Shaeless self-promotion*

While not entirely an ice world, I have put out an ice-age campaign setting. My experience was that it's not too difficult to invision; there were certain points that had to be considered (technology and economy, mostly) but nothing overwhelming.

If anyone is interested in checking it out, the adress is

http://www.pitt.edu/~pms36/ww/index.htm


----------



## I'm A Banana (Aug 4, 2002)

They notified me yesterday that my submission, being of such high quality, was nominated the undisputed champion of all just a few minutes ago.

Okay, actually, they didn't, but it happened in my dream last night. 

Oh, and I know my "great evil" is kinda Cthulu-esque, but I want it to be more of a moral thing than a big tentacled beast. Every thought you have about ending the life of someone else that brings you joy or happiness, the evil grows much stronger.

It's more "We Are All The Villain" then "Weird cultists with unhealthy tentacle fixations"

So


----------



## Mirth (Aug 4, 2002)

BUMPer crop circles are now appearing in this thread....

More news at 11...


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 4, 2002)

I hate to see this thread BUMPed so far down the page.


----------



## Ds Da Man (Aug 4, 2002)

Bumper cars!!!!


----------



## alsih2o (Aug 5, 2002)

i was just thinking about 70's dances...the hustle, the bus stop, the BUMP...


----------



## alsih2o (Aug 5, 2002)

i was just thinking about 70's dances...the hustle, the bus stop, the BUMP...


----------



## Mirth (Aug 5, 2002)

Bumpty Bump Bump Bump!!!!!


----------



## Scribe Ineti (Aug 5, 2002)

uppers


----------



## GoldenEagle (Aug 5, 2002)

has WotC BUMPed their schedule back again or should we here something this week?


----------



## Orco42 (Aug 5, 2002)

I think WotC will *bump* it back until after gencon.


----------



## Mistwell (Aug 5, 2002)

> Because the "Evil Villain's Out to Conquer the World and We've Got to Stop Him" setting has been done to death. It's OLD!Folks want something new.
> 
> Something like the "Well, The Evil Villain's Been Roundly Trounced, But The World's Still in a Horrid Mess, So I Guess We Get to Put the Place Back Together" setting. The big bad's been thoroughly whomped, you now get to go and put things aright again. And it won't be easy.




This analogy is only useful for those who have taken a US history course.

Which did you prefer to read about: WWII and the fight against Hitler, or the post-civil war reconstruction era?

The "putting the place back together after war" setting is boring.  The "stop the evil villian out to conquer the world" setting is exciting.


----------



## Norris (Aug 5, 2002)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *The "putting the place back together after war" setting is boring.  The "stop the evil villian out to conquer the world" setting is exciting. *




[Assuming someone has a background in USHistory or World History (and they made you memorize dates)]

1940-1945 is exciting. 1946-1950 is boring.
1861-1865 is exciting. 1866-1870 is boring.
1914-1918 is exciting. 1919-1922 is boring.

But then again. the boring part between 1919 and 1939 turns into the exciting 1940-1945. So its cyclic.


----------



## River (Aug 5, 2002)

Norris said:
			
		

> *
> 
> But then again. the boring part between 1919 and 1939 turns into the exciting 1940-1945. So its cyclic. *




Unless you're making gangster films or Indiana Jones style pulp adventures,

The setting I submitted starts pretty much day 1 AFTER the apocolyptic battle.  The world is changed, things are fluid, I think thats a much more interesting setting.  much better than the tired old "must stop the villian and save the world." thats been done to death!


----------



## 2WS-Steve (Aug 5, 2002)

In my experience war time hasn't been a good setting for RPGs. I think there's too much going on for the players to feel important; or the sides have been too clearly drawn, or the enemies are all out in the open and you know where the battle-lines are, or all the tough characters (i.e. the Players) shouldn't be scrounging around the homeland because they belong near the front... For whatever reason, while I've tried to run a good wartime campaign they haven't done that well.

Cold Wars on the other hand make a good background for a game. The enemy can be anywhere and you can get a good mix of investigation, roleplaying, and fighting. Moreover, if you look at the settings that have worked well for a campaign you'll see that they tend to be in Cold War eras. 1947 to 1988 for modern espionage. 1920 to 1939 for Indiana Jones/Call of Cthulhu scenarios. Even cyberpunkish games are essentially set in an extended cold war between corporate empires. I think these work well because they provide more opportunities for interacting with the players' enemies and just provide a wider variety of action.


----------



## Kilmore (Aug 5, 2002)

*Ice Worlds*

Anyone read the Icerigger books by Alan Dean Foster?  They were sci-fi, but the technological humans were stuck in a medieval alien society.  They made a sailing ship on skis.

Also, has anyone else ever DARED make polar elves?


----------



## kenjib (Aug 5, 2002)

I think Erde and Scarred Lands are both already post-big bad guy settings.


----------



## Avatar_V (Aug 5, 2002)

Mine was more pre-apocalypse because I thought it had been done less. The problem was making the threat imminent enough to be effective, while not making it so close that WotC says "Why do we want to publish a setting where characters only live a year?" Can any of you think of pre-apocolyptic settings out there?


----------



## Mistwell (Aug 5, 2002)

I think a reconstruction-era campaign could be interesting, particularly if it is the time leading up to conflict eventually (Indiana Jones was a good example, as mentioned). I just think post-war reconstruction is a difficult sell (though Scarred Lands has done a good job).


----------



## EOL (Aug 5, 2002)

While you're hanging out giving yourself ulcers pop over to this thread:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19886

And take a guess at what date the finalists will be announced.


----------



## I'm A Banana (Aug 5, 2002)

....the darkness comes.

The gray moon wanes.

Something hideous and aliens lurks on the edge of your thoughts.

so alien...so familiar...

Welcome to yourself, mate.


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 6, 2002)

*Kamikaze,*

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say "Huh?"


----------



## Norris (Aug 6, 2002)

So let's make it explicit that those who have entered and receive something from WOTC (yes, no, etc) about their entry willpost here, even if anonymously.

BTW, my guess on when (I know, not in this thread) is sometime next week. After GenCon.


----------



## Ds Da Man (Aug 6, 2002)

I shall not go quietly into the night, BUMPPPP!!!!


----------



## River (Aug 6, 2002)

Can I hear a Bumb?

River


----------



## ladyofdragons (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Ice Worlds*



			
				Kilmore said:
			
		

> *Anyone read the Icerigger books by Alan Dean Foster?  They were sci-fi, but the technological humans were stuck in a medieval alien society.  They made a sailing ship on skis.
> 
> Also, has anyone else ever DARED make polar elves? *




yes, I've read those.  And Wendy Pini dared make polar elves.  I've got a bunch in my campaign world too


----------



## Hakkenshi (Aug 6, 2002)

Ah, Wendy Pini and Elfquest...fond memories 
The Go-Back Elves are possibly the coolest (no pun intended) in the whole series.


----------



## Zulkir (Aug 6, 2002)

*DONE!!!!!*

Folks,

I did it. read all of my assigned submissions! Hoody-hoo! Now, its off to Gencon. When I get back I will pull my top ten, we will all meet, and pick the final ten. 

So while I am at GenCon, if you see me, please feel free to throw money. I'll be the one hunched over from too much reading. If you see Peter Archer at Gencon offer to pick things up for him is back is totally wacked (we almost kept him home).

There is a D&D Q&A session on Saturday at 10:00 am in the D&D Room. I imagine I will see some of you there. Also I will be attending the Ennies along with a large group of Wizards folks.

AV


----------



## fett527 (Aug 6, 2002)

Another week of agony!


----------



## fett527 (Aug 6, 2002)

*By the way.*

Thanks for all the work AV.  It will be worth the wait.


----------



## alsih2o (Aug 6, 2002)

what an act of love....all hail those brave enuf to slog thru the paperwork!!

 i know i would have gone "belltower" by now


----------



## Hakkenshi (Aug 6, 2002)

Hoody-hoo indeed!
Thanks for the update...we'll just sit here with our insides melting from anxiety in the meantime.


----------



## Chrysoula (Aug 6, 2002)

Hee hee hee. I wonder how long it'll take the committee to choose the final set. I have this image of a jury locked in deliberations.  Luckily they CAN choose more than 10 to break unbreakable ties in the name of expediency...


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: DONE!!!!!*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *I did it. read all of my assigned submissions! Hoody-hoo! Now, its off to Gencon. When I get back I will pull my top ten, we will all meet, and pick the final ten. *



Anthony,

Does this mean that you did not read all the proposals?  This is not meant as a slam...just idle curiousity.


----------



## Maraxle (Aug 6, 2002)

Anthony, is mine in your top 10?  It's the one with the flying islands.


----------



## Kibo (Aug 6, 2002)

Maraxle said:
			
		

> *Anthony, is mine in your top 10?  It's the one with the flying islands. *




Sorry dude.  But it doesn't matter if it is.  Mine was flying ice islands.  Oh yeah.


----------



## EOL (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: DONE!!!!!*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> 
> I did it. read all of my assigned submissions! Hoody-hoo! Now, its off to Gencon. When I get back I will pull my top ten, we will all meet, and pick the final ten.
> 
> ...



How much money would it take to actually shift your opinion, I want to make sure I have sufficient cash on hand.


----------



## isirga eth (Aug 6, 2002)

Are the losers STILL going to be notified?


----------



## theburningman (Aug 7, 2002)

Glad you guys made it to the other side of the mountain of entries alive.

Oh, and BUMP.


----------



## DungeonKeeperUK (Aug 7, 2002)

isirga eth said:
			
		

> *Are the losers STILL going to be notified? *




I'll tell you all if I'm notified...

Andrew "The pessamist" Troman..


----------



## Impeesa (Aug 7, 2002)

While there is really no purpose at this point, I feel compelled to join in the fun.

Fear the demon lord *B'zzump*. 

--Impeesa--


----------



## mirzabah (Aug 7, 2002)

Aaron L said:
			
		

> *I watched this thing on the travel channel one time, about taking trips through the Australian (Austrian) desert, and all of the things you had to take with you or you'd die.
> 
> If you did one thing wrong, you'd die.
> If you left your car, you'd die.
> If you stopped to go to the bathroom on the way there, you'd die.*



Yes. The Australian desert is exactly like some parts of New York...


----------



## mirzabah (Aug 7, 2002)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> *Additionally, hong, Oz is home to some of the most dangerous species known to man (no, not rugby players, I'm talking about the things that are genetically non-human).*



*That still describes rugby players...*


----------



## Kibo (Aug 7, 2002)

mirzabah said:
			
		

> *Yes. The Australian desert is exactly like some parts of New York... *




I don't know about australia, but in new york I'm pretty sure you can relieve yourself wherever and on whatever you want.


----------



## trix (Aug 7, 2002)

*...*



			
				apsuman said:
			
		

> *on mine the floating islands had time run backwards!
> 
> All Floating Island characters FIPCs and FINPCs start at 20th level and advance backward.
> 
> g! *




Sounds awfully like Darkness at Sethanon (aka Magician book 3).

-Tim


----------



## Norris (Aug 15, 2002)

*Since GenCon*

I spoke with AV at GenCon (in passing, in the WOTC Booth, without actually pressing the case for my own specific setting) about the setting consideration process. His comments and my own opinions are mixed throughout the following.

First, he continued to make his comment that people were literally "suffering" through the process of reading all the entries. He said sitting in a chair and reading 500 entries at a time was giving people back problems.

That says that WOTC was being serious about considering each entry... having a responsible person read it thoroughly and conceivably take notes.

Second, AV isn't the only one doing the reading. So the "committee" will meet sometime after GenCon [this week?] and decide on The Ten. I suppose that means that all of the committee members will bring their best entries to the table, and some sort of voting procedure will take place.

Theoretically, once they decide on The Ten, notifications should be fairly quick. If I remember the cover legal piece, there was no space for a phone number (I put mine in anyway), so notifications will probably be by mail, with perhaps phone calls to those who gave phone numbers.

I theorize they have Monday and Tuesday to get back to work, then Wednesday and Thursday to discuss and reread candidate entries. Depending on lots of things, maybe some decisions Friday, but more likely decisions and notifications next week.

Norris


----------



## EOL (Aug 15, 2002)

When I talked to AV I got the impression that even though he was done with his assigned reading that some of the members of the "committee" were not.  So timeline wise I think I'd add a week or two...


----------



## Norris (Aug 15, 2002)

EOL said:
			
		

> When I talked to AV




That's a good observation. I got the same impression without hearing it specifically.

Now isn't actually talking about something better than just bumping the thead?

Norris


----------



## Mirth (Aug 16, 2002)

Anyone else at Gencon talk to AV? Did anyone get more specifics about how the judging process works (ie. 10 judges who select 10 entries and then narrow those 100 down to THE TEN)? Just curious and didn't want to just *BUMP* this thread again...


----------



## Avatar (Aug 16, 2002)

Well from the looks of things reading this thread and the various GenCon reports, it sounds like they got about 10-11,000 entries, which means that each judge is reading each entry (or at least AV read them all).  That certainly puts to rest some of the concerns about having a judge read your submission after a fight with a significant other etc. that were voiced earlier.

Execellent work, folks at WotC.

Eagerly awaiting results,

Alan


----------



## dema (Aug 16, 2002)

*more than 10*

Anyone thing they might select more than 10 for round 2?


----------



## Fathead (Aug 16, 2002)

*Any hints?*

I noticed that the Setting Search has been delayed until the end of August due to the sheer number of submissions.  Anthony...any other info you can give us regarding the submissions to tide us over until the end of the month?


----------



## Chrysoula (Aug 19, 2002)

*sigh*

I can't remember from the actual rules, and can't find them: is there something about how if you're chosen for the second stage, you aren't allowed to tell anybody? That's been my latest thing to think about-- in a way, it'll be kind of frustrating to have the contest drop off the map after the first stage is over. It's been nice having the enthusiasm of wanting to see the contest move on, but if it's just a post saying, "We all got our rejection letters, somebody else out there is darn lucky," that kind of feels like an anticlimax. 

On the other hand, people have made noises about it being bad somehow to reveal if one makes it to the second stage.

I suppose it sort of depends on if WotC is doing this as a publicity stunt or not.  I sort of assumed they were glad of the publicity even as they looked for a new setting (those who believe this is JUST a publicity stunt with no substance to it, your opinions are noted. ... but I don't know if they'll want to let it die down.


----------



## EOL (Aug 20, 2002)

My understanding is that you are free to reveal the fact that you are one of the final ten, but out of respect for your privacy WotC will not announce all ten, but will confirm (or perhaps deny) anyone's claim to being in the final ten.  Whether it's a good or a bad idea to announce that you're one of the ten is a dilemma I would happily grapple with, for obvious reasons...


----------



## Celebrim (Aug 20, 2002)

"a) Most of the settings already on the market are crap."

Like this wasn't already well known.

In fact, the more popular the setting is, the more likely it is to be crap.  Forgotten Realms is in many ways the worst D&D setting ever, both in terms of originality and internal consistancy.  I'd bet that 80% of the submissions are better than FR.

However, those of you thinking that pre- post- or mid-appocalypse worlds are going to have advantages, consider:

Athas (Dark Sun) was a post appocalypse world.
Krynn (Dragon Lance) was both a post- and mid-appocalypse world.
Sword & Sorcery's 'The Scarred Lands' is a post appocalypse world.

I think the post appocalyptic world has been done to death.

As to 90% being crap, that still leaves them with 1000 submissions of settings that are as good or better than Bloodright, Planescape, Ravenloft, Harnworld, or (insert your favorite fantasy setting here).  I'd be intimidated too.  I don't think what is going to distinguish the final winners is originality.  They probably have 500 original ideas dividable into 50 or more major themes.  What is going to distinguish the winners is single sentences that make the editor go, "Hmm. I want to here more from this guy."  And, in the first cut, that is as much going to be luck as anything else.

I imagine 'Floating Islands' are just one of the major 'Fantastic Geography' themes that includes things like worlds that are actually flat, worlds on the insides of spheres, worlds on multiple spheres that people fly back and forth from, worlds with eternal night/day divisions, worlds that are the rubble of a previous world, worlds that are actually living creatures of emmense size, worlds that are actually magical constructs/ships/artifacts, and so forth.


----------



## seasong (Aug 20, 2002)

Celebrim said:
			
		

> *I imagine 'Floating Islands' are just one of the major 'Fantastic Geography' themes that includes things like worlds that are actually flat, worlds on the insides of spheres, worlds on multiple spheres that people fly back and forth from, worlds with eternal night/day divisions, worlds that are the rubble of a previous world, worlds that are actually living creatures of emmense size, worlds that are actually magical constructs/ships/artifacts, and so forth. *




You gave me a good idea: 

An asteroid field with cities constructed on asteroids, artificial asteroids, flat asteroids, hollow world asteroids, giant celestial dragons, and permanent mile-wide spheres of force. Tiny suns orbit with the asteroids, giving only enough light to illuminate certain areas of the asteroid fields, and leaving large chunks in permanent darkness. Orcs (with darkvision) dwell in the eternal night, breeding like cockroaches and plotting to destroy the suns so they can rule everything. Low-power versions of spell jammer ships allow travel between the microworlds in the light. You could treat the suns as gods who drive back the darkness, fitting the default Cleric to a T.



Now if only I'd submitted that one .


----------



## Norris (Aug 22, 2002)

At the risk of putting words in WOTC's mouth, they said they wanted a setting similar to Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance. The "real" criteria is probably this:

Any player (new, old, experienced, inexperienced) has to be able to start playing in this universe with a minimum of education by the game master. 

If its flying islands, the players "discover" the fact in course of going from point A to point B. If its living forests, the players "discover" it as they play. (If the game master has to spend the first session explaining that every manor is dominated by a Lord who is an Undead Noble, and there is a certain social hierarchy, etc etc, the players lose interest because they are not playing, they are having to listen. That isn't the fun the players expect.)

My own thought is that the setting needs to have a "surface" hook or concept that the players learn about immediately, and then the Bible for the setting has secret appendices for the writers. Gradually, as the adventures in the setting take place, players discover more and more about the world (like it has flying islands, or that the islands are powered by the sacred flowers of Koth, or whatever.

But at its core, the new setting has to let anyone play their character or character class from whatever other campaign they already have without major changes. 

Norris


----------



## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Aug 22, 2002)

Norris said:
			
		

> *
> ...At the risk of putting words in WOTC's mouth, they said they wanted a setting similar to Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance.
> 
> Norris *




**** BIG SIGH**** I'm sure you are right, and this is exactly why I did not enter the contest. I'm sure my CW would have been deemed "too different". WotC is looking for more of the same, and unfortuantely will get it.


----------



## Hakkenshi (Aug 22, 2002)

WotC said the world had to be similar in SCOPE to Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. That means the heroes are larger-than-life adventurers, not farmers trying to repeatedly save their harvest from dire gophers.

The world has magic, monsters, etc. That's the basic principle. As for the surface "hook" of the world, why exactly do you think that WotC had the first part of the submission be the ethos sentence for your world? To prove that the driving concept behind your world is an easily-explained and engaging one.

I don't think D&D NEEDS another standard medieval world like DL or FR, which is why I submitted something different. I'll probably be proven wrong, but I had to try it this way.


----------



## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Aug 22, 2002)

Celebrim said:
			
		

> *"...However, those of you thinking that pre- post- or mid-appocalypse worlds are going to have advantages, consider:
> 
> Athas (Dark Sun) was a post appocalypse world.
> Krynn (Dragon Lance) was both a post- and mid-appocalypse world.
> ...




What exactly was the "apocalyse" for Dark Sun?


----------



## Hakkenshi (Aug 22, 2002)

> What exactly was the "apocalyse" for Dark Sun?




Does it really matter? I don't even know Dark Sun very well, but I can tell that Athas has the feel that we generally associate with post-apocalyptic (whether it really is or not).


----------



## bwgwl (Aug 22, 2002)

BigFreekinGoblinoid said:
			
		

> *What exactly was the "apocalyse" for Dark Sun? *



i'm most definitely not a Dark Sun guru, but from what i recall there was:

1) "defiling" magic that turned a previously lush and fertile planet into a world-spanning desert

2) a genocide that wiped out many traditional races (gnomes, goblins, orcs, trolls, etc.)


----------



## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Aug 22, 2002)

Hakkenshi said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Does it really matter? I don't even know Dark Sun very well, but I can tell that Athas has the feel that we generally associate with post-apocalyptic (whether it really is or not). *




Thanks,  and  bwgwl too.  Athas sounds cool. I'm definitely gonna be playing close attention to the 3E conversion being done at

http://www.athas.org/ 

as we speak. SO - basically WotC does not have a current 3E post apocalyptic campaign. That just further leads me to believe that they WILL choose one. Especially considering that S&S's Scarred Lands Campaign will print less sourcebooks for that world than they already have printed. 

I'm willing to bet ( say if I'm wrong, anyone who bets me can choose a D&D sourcebook of mine from a list I compile ) that they will eventually go this route.  I'll take this bet from the first 10 people that take me up on it. But if I'm right - I get a sourcebook/adventure from whomever bets me! ) I will have Rokugan, Fading Suns, Elric, Star Wars and WoT stuff on this list - just to tempt somone...


----------



## Mirth (Aug 24, 2002)

Well, we officially have one week left in August, so I thought this thread deserved a *BUMP*!!! Anyone think Wizards is going to delay it again? I don't, but I wondered what others thought.

On another note, *BigFreekinGoblinoid*, I will take you up on your bet. I have a feeling that Wizards wants a 3rd edition "generic" setting and not a niche setting like Athas, and I'm willing to put my copper pieces where my mouth is. Let's Roll!

Jay


----------



## Rasyr (Aug 24, 2002)

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *Well, we officially have one week left in August, so I thought this thread deserved a *BUMP*!!! Anyone think Wizards is going to delay it again? I don't, but I wondered what others thought.
> *




NO idea if there will be any sort of official delay or not, but Anthony Valterra is going on vacation within the next day or two (he announced it on one of the OGL lists). According to the email, he is on vacation until after Labor Day.

So... that means that they have either finished the selection process and that somebody at WOTC will be spending enxt week sending out notifications, or that they have not finished and that the final selections will be waiting until September.....

Personally, I am hoping for the first possibility. Then, at least the wait wll be over...........


----------



## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Aug 24, 2002)

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *
> On another note, BigFreekinGoblinoid, I will take you up on your bet. I have a feeling that Wizards wants a 3rd edition "generic" setting and not a niche setting like Athas, and I'm willing to put my copper pieces where my mouth is. Let's Roll!
> 
> Jay *




I wouldn't call Scarred Lands or Dragonlance "Niche". But... It's on! You are victim number 1.  

Goodluck!


----------



## Mirth (Aug 24, 2002)

BigFreekinGoblinoid said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I wouldn't call Scarred Lands or Dragonlance "Niche". But... It's on! You are victim number 1.
> 
> Goodluck! *




I see that you changed your original post to mention Scarred Lands and Dragonlance. Perhaps we need a clarification of the bet, or else we should call it off. I understood you to be saying that Wizards would be, in your opinion, choosing a *post apocalyptic* setting to finally publish. I would definitely lump Athas/Dark Sun (niche) and Scarred Lands (not niche) into this category. 

However, I would not put Dragonlance there. They could very well choose a story-driven setting like DL and, in fact, one of my two submissions to the "contest" bets on this. 

So, are we talking *post apocalyptic* or not?

Jay

p.s. Please don't take this post as a slam or a binding contract. I understand it's a friendly wager. Honestly, I'm just glad to be talking about something rather than simply BUMPing this thread.


----------



## Staffan (Aug 24, 2002)

bwgwl said:
			
		

> *
> i'm most definitely not a Dark Sun guru, but from what i recall there was:
> 
> 1) "defiling" magic that turned a previously lush and fertile planet into a world-spanning desert
> ...



... and most of the large-scale defiling responsible for the sorry state of today's Athas took place during the genocidal wars. Afterwards, wizard magic has mostly been supressed, so the wizards roaming the world today pretty much just prevent recovery and don't really make it much worse.


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 24, 2002)

*But if you think about it....*

Exploring ruins of old crumbling cities and finding lost treasure is one of the staples of D&D.  I think that's why there are so many 'post-apocalyptic' flavored worlds out there, and why I think there's room for more.

After all, I would find it very dull if my DM had us raid the local K-Mart for lost treasure.  "Oooo look! I found a hay-penny!"  Something has to be lost or forgotten or ruined for there to be, well, RUINS!

Just my two cents (or is it a haypenny?)


----------



## EOL (Aug 24, 2002)

I posted a thread awhile ago asking people to guess the date, and I updated it with some information AV posted on the OGL list, basically that he's going on vacation.  Rather than give you the specifics I'll refer you to that thread and maybe while you're there you can take a guess. 

Setting Search Contest


----------



## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Aug 24, 2002)

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I see that you changed your original post to mention Scarred Lands and Dragonlance. Perhaps we need a clarification of the bet, or else we should call it off. I understood you to be saying that Wizards would be, in your opinion, choosing a post apocalyptic setting to finally publish. I would definitely lump Athas/Dark Sun (niche) and Scarred Lands (not niche) into this category.
> 
> ...




Hi Jay- ( and anyone else that might want to bet - 9 spots left! )

I really don't know anything about Dragonlance, but in a post above, someone else ( Celebrim ) described DL as a  "post-mid apocalypse setting". 

Just to be clear, our bet is whether or not the eventual chosen campaign world by WotC will be a post apocalyptic event setting... 

We can arrange for a ENmessage board
poll if there is any dispute on the outcome!


----------



## Celebrim (Aug 24, 2002)

To clarify (for those that might forget), Krynn was at the time of Chronicles both a world that had yet to recover from an ancient apocalyptic event AND a world that was in the middle of experiencing a second apocalyptic event.  The first event was the breaking of the world 300 years ago in an event called the Cataclysm which resulted in most of the higher cultures of Krynn being either destroyed (thus Krynn is littered with the ruins of complete cities) or isolated by new and challenging geology.  Simulateously, all the Gods withdrew from the world leaving it without divine spells, which probably resulted in a significant reduction in everyone's standard of living (no Cure Disease, for instance).  At the beginning of the story, the appocalypse is winding to its conclusion with the Return of Tahakis the Dark Queen in a contest that will decide presumably whether the next era of Krynn is dominated by darkness or light.  Thus, we see the world overrun by Dragons and Devils with only a small select remenant capable (with a little nudging from Palatine) of defeating the armies of evil. 

Sound mid-post appocalyptic to you?

One question is whether or not any D&D setting has ever not been post appocalyptic, and whether or not ANYONE submitted an ideal for a setting that didn't include some appocalyptic elements?  For instance, (though I didn't submit for lack of time), in my setting there have been at least two appocalyptic world shattering events, the most significant of which was The Iconocaust.  I suspect everyone falls into that sort of derivative, in part because they are subconsciously modeling literature based off the ideology of the Middle Ages and Reinassance (when people really felt like survivors of the end of the world and were awaiting 'the next big one').


----------



## Storminator (Aug 24, 2002)

I just want to say that Iconocaust is a very cool word! 

PS


----------



## Irysangel (Aug 26, 2002)

*Question of the Day!*

Since we're obsessing as the end of August draws nigh....


To quote the Wizards.com webpage:

"...we will be notifying by the end of August those people who will be asked to go on to the second round of proposals."


Now, does this mean that they are only notifying those that they selected, or everyone that entered?  And if they asked those that were selected not to say anything, I wonder how much longer the suspense will really go on?

Curiouser and Curiouser....


----------



## mirzabah (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: Question of the Day!*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *Now, does this mean that they are only notifying those that they selected, or everyone that entered?*



I think it's unreasonable to expect them to notify all entrants. They've had more than enough to do already without having to key in 10,000+ contacts just so they can do a mass mailing of "we regret blah blah." I imagine that when they've sent out notification to the second rounders, they'll make an announcement on their website and maybe on various boards.







			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *And if they asked those that were selected not to say anything...*



WotC has already said that they don't mind if any given second rounder decides to declare him- or herself. They won't be announcing the names themselves, but they will confirm or deny on request.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo (Aug 26, 2002)

Hakkenshi said:
			
		

> *That means the heroes are larger-than-life adventurers, not farmers trying to repeatedly save their harvest from dire gophers.
> *




I'm glad I didn't send that one in then.


----------



## Jarval (Aug 26, 2002)

Another end-of-August bump.


----------



## ladyofdragons (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: But if you think about it....*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *Just my two cents (or is it a haypenny?) *



actually, that would be four haypennies, or one BUMP.


----------



## River (Aug 26, 2002)

Its the bloody 26th!  Still no anouncements?

River


----------



## Mirth (Aug 26, 2002)

And now Anthony (Zulkir) is officially on vacation, non? Who will tell us that we lost? I want to know that I lost, right now!

Heh. *BUMP*


----------



## Chrysoula (Aug 26, 2002)

Possibly they're currently working on notifying those chosen to go on to the second round, having completed chosing those worlds last week. When they have communicated successfully with each choice, they'll then announce/email out the close-of-decisions. Anthony doesn't have to be here to talk personally to each choice, or post something on the website saying, "Game over," does he?


----------



## bwgwl (Aug 26, 2002)

Celebrim said:
			
		

> *One question is whether or not any D&D setting has ever not been post appocalyptic, and whether or not ANYONE submitted an ideal for a setting that didn't include some appocalyptic elements?*



the setting i submitted does not have any kind of apocalypse mentioned, FWIW.

though i agree it is a rather common idea in fantasy worlds, at least for explaining where all the dungeons came from!


----------



## Maraxle (Aug 26, 2002)

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *And now Anthony (Zulkir) is officially on vacation, non? Who will tell us that we lost? I want to know that I lost, right now!
> *



Yours was the 2-pager, right?  Well then... you lost.


----------



## CRG (Aug 26, 2002)

None of my submissions followed an apocalypse.  All 327 of them...

I would wager, however, that EVERY setting dealt with some sort of event or change in motion that had ramifcations upon the world as a whole.  I'll even go out on a limb and say that such a large change was described to be happening "now", just occurred or be on the horizon.

Nothing like being specific.


----------



## Maraxle (Aug 26, 2002)

Wrong.  Nothing at all has, is, or will happen in my setting.  Which is why I will win.


----------



## Norris (Aug 26, 2002)

Mine isn't about an apocalyse (then again, it probably won't be chosen). It's about a setting... a place with its associated structure and culture. There will be (or should be) stories and adventures in the setting which could be pre-, mid-, or post- apocalyptic, but the setting itself is just descriptive.

Norris


----------



## kenjib (Aug 26, 2002)

Maraxle said:
			
		

> *Wrong.  Nothing at all has, is, or will happen in my setting.  Which is why I will win. *




I managed to sneak a copy of Maraxle's setting out from WotC headquarters over here.  Here it is:



> The Setting of P'u:  Land of the Uncarved Block
> 
> _When the block is carved, it becomes useful.
> When the sage uses it, he becomes the ruler.
> ...




Sheer brilliance Maraxle, and I doubt anyone will have a shorter word count.  It will definitely stand out from the pack.  I wish I had thought of it!  Congrats on what I am sure will be your upcoming success in the competition.


----------



## Morgenstern (Aug 26, 2002)

Celebrim said:
			
		

> *One question is whether or not any D&D setting has ever not been post appocalyptic, and whether or not ANYONE submitted an ideal for a setting that didn't include some appocalyptic elements?*




Mine had no particularly appocalyptic elements. It focused on exploration, as the entrenched and developed cultures discover the existance of a new continent and set about sending in agents and adventurers to explore it and bring back the wealth or carve out new territories.Lots going on on the home continent too, but exploration gave it it's new hook.


----------



## Kugar (Aug 26, 2002)

kenjib said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I managed to sneak a copy of Maraxle's setting out from WotC headquarters over here.  Here it is:
> *




     I thought it was nore like a campaign about nothing.
Did you ever notice those annoying adventures!  I mean really, rushing into town, smelling like they have been on the trails for weeks, and you try to make one little comment about their hygene and whammo! The village is is ashes!
     Or how 'bout those evil warlords.  You know those people who dress all in black and have a mountain fortress or some such.  Why are their ventilation systems always designed by 2 year olds.  I mean there I was in the bar and this smelly dwarf was telling me how he defeated the evil _Xarvithiasmorgilian_ by climbing through his air vent and blowing up his volcano.  I mean really, how much dumber could you design a stronghold!
     And don't get me started about how stupid people are.  I once saw 20 gnomes try and pole vault over the gorge over there.  The amazing thing was that one of 'em actually made it.  It seems like no matter how stupid people are they seem to have a 5% chance of actually succeding!  Its like they make the rest of the univers just as dumb as they are for that brief 6 seconds ....

Anyway that's the way I think Maraxle's world would be like.


----------



## Mirth (Aug 27, 2002)

You better pump it chump, cuz this rump can *BUMP*!!!!!!!


----------



## trix (Aug 27, 2002)

*...*

So . . .

.  .  .

What does . . .  BUMP . . .  *whistle* *looks at ceiling* mean ?

.  .  .

-Tim

PS:

Anyone started on their 10 pager?

I had lots of apocolypses (apocolii ??) in my setting.  And they were on horses.  Why would utopia need heroes?  So, there has to be some sort of conflict.

What counts as an apocalypse?  Massive world overhaul? Maybe some massive war?

Surely if there is small conflicts, then there will be massive conflicts.  The intelligent thing is for evil to align and fight the good guys.  But why should good work with each other, since they're all good, its "just business".  No need to band together, since there isnt conflict between them.

As soon as evil aligns, good must align or perish.

That alignment could be a deciding factor that is pre-post apocalypse.  In addition, good will always act in response to evil.  Never before evil.  Therefore evil forces are able to "seem" alot more effective, since they continually have the suprise advantage.  (on a macro scale).

-Tim


----------



## Zappo (Aug 27, 2002)

My setting is both pre and postapocalypse... sorta.

It's preapocalypse in the same sense that the White Wolf settings are - there's a big impending certain (almost) unavoidable doom, but noone can tell when/how it will happen except the DM. And the population at large doesn't even know about it. It ain't happening tomorrow for sure.

It's postapocalypse in the same sense that Dragonlance is - the apocalypse (...sorta - it's stretching the term a bit) was hundreds of years ago and the world has recovered a bit, even though it was heavily changed.


----------



## Maraxle (Aug 27, 2002)

kenjib said:
			
		

> *I managed to sneak a copy of Maraxle's setting out from WotC headquarters over here.  Here it is:*



How did you get that?  Who is your source?  This treachery will not be forgotten.


----------



## Plane Sailing (Aug 27, 2002)

Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Mine had no particularly appocalyptic elements. It focused on exploration, as the entrenched and developed cultures discover the existance of a new continent and set about sending in agents and adventurers to explore it and bring back the wealth or carve out new territories.Lots going on on the home continent too, but exploration gave it it's new hook. *




That's a really nice idea.

A DM that I know has a long established 1.5e campaign based around a fantasy version of Earth (europe/africa/asia). He was toying with the idea of starting a 3e game with the discovery of the Americas, and with the new PCs sent out by the old world order to do stuff there.


----------



## BiggusGeekus (Aug 27, 2002)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That's a really nice idea.
> 
> A DM that I know has a long established 1.5e campaign based around a fantasy version of Earth (europe/africa/asia). He was toying with the idea of starting a 3e game with the discovery of the Americas, and with the new PCs sent out by the old world order to do stuff there. *




You may want to check out the _Twin Crowns_ setting then.


----------



## Chromnos (Aug 27, 2002)

CRG said:
			
		

> *None of my submissions followed an apocalypse.  All 327 of them...
> 
> I would wager, however, that EVERY setting dealt with some sort of event or change in motion that had ramifcations upon the world as a whole.  I'll even go out on a limb and say that such a large change was described to be happening "now", just occurred or be on the horizon.
> 
> Nothing like being specific. *




327?

Tell me you didn't.

-C


----------



## slaughterj (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: But if you think about it....*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *Exploring ruins of old crumbling cities and finding lost treasure is one of the staples of D&D.  I think that's why there are so many 'post-apocalyptic' flavored worlds out there, and why I think there's room for more.
> 
> *




Exactly.  Post-apocalyptic does not require that there are still events going on (whether it's volcanic eruptions, acid rain, or no magic zones), just that it occurred at some point in the past.  Things can be very settled and there is a sense of normalcy (i.e., well afterward), or things can be very chaotic and life itself is a struggle (soon afterward), or somewhere in between.


----------

