# Poorly thought out names in Fantasy/Sci-fi



## Branduil (Mar 16, 2004)

Everyone knows that when it comes to naming things in a fantasy world, Tolkien is King. What about, however, those whose naming ability just plain sucks? What are the worst names you heard or read?

I would have to say Brooks is one of the worst inventors of names when it comes to his Shannara books.

The Record of Lodoss War anime is pretty entertaining, but a few of the names are poorly thought out. Like "King Kashue"(I was waiting for the appearance of "Prince Penut"). And "Woodchuck" doesn't seem like much of a name for a thief.

The latest Star Wars movies have had some pretty uninspired names too. Jar Jar Binks? Count Dooku? Please.


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## WayneLigon (Mar 16, 2004)

Branduil said:
			
		

> The Record of Lodoss War anime is pretty entertaining, but a few of the names are poorly thought out. Like "King Kashue"(I was waiting for the appearance of "Prince Penut"). And "Woodchuck" doesn't seem like much of a name for a thief.



Anime often uses 'borrowed' words or sounds for a variety of reasons, the chief of which is 'it sounds cool'. A number of anime comedies like Sorcerer Hunters use very obviously borrowed English (and other) names for humorous double-meaning effect (all of the main characters in SH are named after desserts; Carrot Glasé, Marron Glasé, Chocolate Misu, Tira Misu and Gateau Mocha).

Naming is a serious matter, though. A silly or inappropriate name can throw the reader out of the story. One of the best I ever heard of was from an essay on proper naming: 'Urasis Dragon'; on paper it looks like a good decent name. Now sound it out.


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## Tanager (Mar 16, 2004)

There's always the Chinese cult classic film, _Inframan_, with it's supreme villainess *Princess Dragon-Mom*


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## Branduil (Mar 16, 2004)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Anime often uses 'borrowed' words or sounds for a variety of reasons, the chief of which is 'it sounds cool'. A number of anime comedies like Sorcerer Hunters use very obviously borrowed English (and other) names for humorous double-meaning effect (all of the main characters in SH are named after desserts; Carrot Glasé, Marron Glasé, Chocolate Misu, Tira Misu and Gateau Mocha).
> 
> Naming is a serious matter, though. A silly or inappropriate name can throw the reader out of the story. One of the best I ever heard of was from an essay on proper naming: 'Urasis Dragon'; on paper it looks like a good decent name. Now sound it out.




Yeah, and I can excuse the Japanese for giving us a name like "King Kashue," because I don't expect them to know that a certain name is pronounced the same as the American word for a certain nut.

I can't excuse Lucas though. There's no excuse for "Dooku."


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## s/LaSH (Mar 17, 2004)

Still on the anime theme, every single character has a joke name in DragonBall and its assorted carry-on series, often themed according to race or profession. 'Goku' may be an exception, as it's the name of a mythical character. But everybody else... frex, all the pre-human-bred Saiyajin are named after vegetables - Vegeta, Kakarot (hence frequent use of the nickname 'carrot' when referring to Goku), etc. Saiya means vegetable in Japanese, even. Or Goku's sons, named after meals (this explains a joke in Cell Saga that just doesn't work in English - Goku calls for Gohan to join the fight, and the reporters say, "Did he just order a meal?" - Gohan means rice). Or the Briefs family, whose matriarch is erroneously translated as Bulma - it should be Bloomer, an antique name for underwear - and her children, Trunks, Bra, etc. Or Chichi, whose name, um, let's just say you're not going to get a man with that name unless he's got hormone problems. Or surgery.

No good examples floating to the surface otherwise, sadly.


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## Richards (Mar 17, 2004)

I once read a "Dr. Who" related novel, _Harry Sullivan's War_ (written by the actor who played Harry Sullivan, one of the fourth Doctor's companions in the Sarah Jane Smith era), where the main thug, a burly brawler who was supposed to be a really tough SOB, was named "Rupert Rainbow."

Johnathan


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## Chain Lightning (Mar 17, 2004)

One of my small annoyances & misunderstandings from my childhood was from "Star Wars".

Tarkin says, "I grow tired of asking. Where is the rebel base?"

Leia answers, "Dantooine. They're on Dantooine."

But for the LONGEST time, I thought she said, with a pseudo euro-accent, " that-a-way...they're all that-a-way." Or rather, "Dat-a-way...they're all dat-a-way."

You may now pause to laugh if you wish..heh heh.   

Okay, back to my point. I guess Lucas was trying to go for some kind of cultural naming convention in that part of the universe. Tatooine, Dantooine, etc, etc. I figure he was trying to make '-ooine' some sort of suffix or something. But it comes off kinda of silly to me. Its not like we named our planet 'Earth', then named the next red planet "Purth", then named the next "Kirth", and so on.

Anyways, let's say that was an applaudable way to name that region's planets. You still need to keep in mind sometimes what actors have to say out loud. It's sounds too close to Tatooine, so even if you heard it right...you might get confused and think she might've said Tatooine and not Datooine. In which case you're thinking, "Hey.....the star destroyer was just there!" Plus, because of Leia's reluctance and emotional state...she mutters the planet's name under her breath. Now its twice as bad to understand.

Anyways, my little gripe. I'm sure there are plenty of you who understood it the first time....but I didn't. Actually, the Star Wars movies has THE most misunderstood lines in any movies I've watched. For me personally.

Example: (one of many) I didn't understand what Obi-Wan said in Phantom Menace until I got to put on the subtitles from the DVD in one particular scene. They're underwater and he says, "You over did it."

Never knew he said that until I had to subtitle it. Then once I found out what he said, I'm STILL confused as to why he said it in that particular situation.  

Okay, back on topic.....

Even though I don't find the Sword of Truth stuff all that bad (only on second book so far - - but I've heard really bad reviews on it), I think Terry Goodkind's names take me out of the fantasy mind-set.

---Richard Cypher? (I keep thinking Gibson Cyber-Punk or Matrix, although I read Wizard's First Rule before that movie came out...still felt Cyber-punky
)
---Zed? (I keep thinking Billy Bob Thorton)   

Oh...almost forgot...back to Star Wars. The WORST named character from the movies has got to be "Elan Sleazebaggano"
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/elansleazebaggano/

<sarcasm on> Oh I get it...clever clever...he's a drug dealing sleaze bag...clever clever....<sarcasm off>

C'mon Lucas! You're not even trying now! Obviously using the same creative engine that came up with "Biggus Dikkus". But at least that Monty Python character's name fit with the story/tone.


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## Kai Lord (Mar 17, 2004)

Chain Lightning said:
			
		

> One of my small annoyances & misunderstandings from my childhood was from "Star Wars".
> 
> Tarkin says, "I grow tired of asking. Where is the rebel base?"
> 
> ...



Yep.  For _years_ I thought she said "Tatooine."



			
				Chain Lightning said:
			
		

> Actually, the Star Wars movies has THE most misunderstood lines in any movies I've watched. For me personally.



Yeah, it wasn't until I was in high school (and I first saw Star Wars on the big screen in '77 when I was three years old) that I realized that the X-Wing leaders said "Lock S-Foils in attack positions."  Up to then I always thought they said "Luck as falls...attack positions."

In the original Star Wars I also finally learned while watching with subtitles that Gold Leader says "Cut the chatter Red 2..." instead of "Cut the shadow Red 2..."  I assumed "cutting the shadow" was some kind of fancy X-Wing evasion maneuver.

And don't get me started on what I thought "Lost Tiree, lost Hutch, they came from behind!" was supposed to be, because I didn't have clue.  All I could ever make out was "bla-bla-bla-behind!" BOOM!



			
				Chain Lightning said:
			
		

> Example: (one of many) I didn't understand what Obi-Wan said in Phantom Menace until I got to put on the subtitles from the DVD in one particular scene. They're underwater and he says, "You over did it."
> 
> Never knew he said that until I had to subtitle it. Then once I found out what he said, I'm STILL confused as to why he said it in that particular situation.



I read some fan speculation that Qui-Gonn did some kind of Jedi Mind trick to calm Jar Jar down but that Obi-Wan thought went too far.


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## guedo79 (Mar 17, 2004)

Don't forget the Anime "Bastard!".

Every name is a metal band.  The Town is called Metallica(or something very similar), a deadly spell is called Poison or Guns and Rose, and the Paladin that keeps getting beat up is called Bon Jovina.


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## Particle_Man (Mar 17, 2004)

I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I thought that "Wormtongue" was a little too on the nose.  Why would anyone, ever, put someone named Wormtongue in the position of advisor to a king?  The name screams "evil henchling".  Of course, in the movie, you add the visuals which makes it even weirder.  I guess Saruman was more effective than I had previously supposed...  

In a campaign, shortly before I joined, the DM named an NPC Paladin "Lord Pederast" -- he honestly did not know that it was a real word (he was going for something like footman, I think).  I suppose if your mother named you that the only thing you could do to salvage your reputation would be to become a Paladin.  Or, well, change your name of course.


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## trancejeremy (Mar 17, 2004)

> Oh...almost forgot...back to Star Wars. The WORST named character from the movies has got to be "Elan Sleazebaggano"




Maybe it was just a nickname, like Jimmy the Scumbag from the Simpsons?


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## demiurge1138 (Mar 17, 2004)

Chain Lightning said:
			
		

> Example: (one of many) I didn't understand what Obi-Wan said in Phantom Menace until I got to put on the subtitles from the DVD in one particular scene. They're underwater and he says, "You over did it."
> Never knew he said that until I had to subtitle it. Then once I found out what he said, I'm STILL confused as to why he said it in that particular situation.




I think what happens is:
Qui-Gon (not a very good name, that) puts his hand on Jar Jar's (worse one) shoulder.
Jar Jar faints.
Obi-Wan (not great, but it's a classic) says the line, assuming that Qui-Gon did some Jedi calming thing.

On topic...
The worst names I've heard are probably from the Star Wars prequels. Elan Sleazebaggano? Dexter Jettser? Count Dooku? Ouch, ouch, ouch, every one of them. And the new Sith (Tyranus, Maul, Sidious) just make me feel ill. I mean, I can take Vader. It's not nearly as "get it?" as the new ones.

Demiurge out.


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## Darrin Drader (Mar 17, 2004)

demiurge1138 said:
			
		

> On topic...
> The worst names I've heard are probably from the Star Wars prequels. Elan Sleazebaggano? Dexter Jettser? Count Dooku? Ouch, ouch, ouch, every one of them. And the new Sith (Tyranus, Maul, Sidious) just make me feel ill. I mean, I can take Vader. It's not nearly as "get it?" as the new ones.



I agree. Its like we're being given some alternate universe Star Wars light with the prequels where everything is extra cheezy and lame. But, lets not forget about the campiness of the original -- Oota goota Solo?


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## Mathew_Freeman (Mar 17, 2004)

Keven Landwaster from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Worst. Name. Evar.


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## mmu1 (Mar 17, 2004)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I thought that "Wormtongue" was a little too on the nose.  Why would anyone, ever, put someone named Wormtongue in the position of advisor to a king?  The name screams "evil henchling".  Of course, in the movie, you add the visuals which makes it even weirder.  I guess Saruman was more effective than I had previously supposed...




His actual name is Grima - he wasn't always called Wormtongue. (IIRC)

Gandalf mentions that at some point, he was a true advisor, not Saruman's mouthpiece.

But speaking of LotR - Bilbo, Kili, Fili, Oin, Gloin, etc. - those aren't exactly the greatest names ever, either. (Although most of them are introduced in the Hobbit, which was pretty much a children's book, which excuses much.)


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## WayneLigon (Mar 17, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> His actual name is Grima - he wasn't always called Wormtongue.
> 
> (Although most of them are introduced in the Hobbit, which was pretty much a children's book, which excuses much.)



There's probably a special term for it, but it's a common thing in high heroic fiction (and by romantic historians) to give names and nicknames and faux titles to people. When I started the reply, I had a book name on the tip of my tongue but now it's gone.

 Sad. 

Actually Tolkien lifted most (all?) of the dwarf names from one of the poetic eddas, translated here. This is where Galdalf's name comes from as well.

10.There was Motsognir the mightiest made
Of all the dwarfs, and *Durin* next;
Many a likeness of men they made,
The dwarfs in the earth, as Durin said. 

11.Nyi and Nithi, Northri and Suthri,
Austri and Vestri, Althjof, Dvalin,
Nar and Nain, Niping, Dain,
*Bifur*, *Bofur*, *Bombur*, *Nori*,
An and Onar, Ai, Mjothvitnir,

12.Vigg and *Gandalf*, Vindalf, *Thrain*,
Thekk and *Thorin*, Thror, Vit and Lit,
Nyr and Nyrath, - 
Regin and Rathvith- now have I told the list aright.

And it goes on, and on, and _on; _the other _Hobbit_ dwarf names appear a few sections down from these.

10. Northri, Suthri, Austri and Vestri are of course the cardinal directions. Alfthjof - 'Mighty-Theif'; Mjothvitnir - 'Mead-Wolf'; *Gandalf* - 'Magic-Elf'; Vindalf - 'Wind Elf', Rathsvith - 'Swift in Counsel', Eikinsjaldi 'Oak Shield', etc


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## Assenpfeffer (Mar 17, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> But speaking of LotR - Bilbo, Kili, Fili, Oin, Gloin, etc. - those aren't exactly the greatest names ever, either. (Although most of them are introduced in the Hobbit, which was pretty much a children's book, which excuses much.)




The names of the Dwarves come from the Dvergatal, part of the Elder Edda - Tolkien drew those names directly from Norse myth.


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## Wolf72 (Mar 17, 2004)

*wolf is still laughing over _*Urasis Dragon*_*


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## Assenpfeffer (Mar 17, 2004)

guedo79 said:
			
		

> Don't forget the Anime "Bastard!".
> 
> Every name is a metal band.  The Town is called Metallica(or something very similar), a deadly spell is called Poison or Guns and Rose, and the Paladin that keeps getting beat up is called Bon Jovina.




And people ask me why I can't stand most anime.


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## Henry (Mar 17, 2004)

One of the reasons I like Cowboy Bebop (well, other than the excellent English Dubbing that makes it likeably for me) is that the names are not so over-the-top for Anime. If the worst they did was "Jet Black", then I can suspend my disbelief.

Even the original Star Wars often used names to convey stereotyping. "Luke" is a name evocative in the American South and Midwest of a "Farmboy" name. Han SOLO is pretty much a loner. "Chewbacca" sounds so much like "Chewing Tobacco" it stands out. "Greedo" is obvious. There are more I'm sure in the original movie, but they are escaping me at the moment.

Some authors use the names in a comedy story for humorous (and great) effect. In Robert Aspirin's M.Y.T.H. series, Tananda ("Tanda" for short) is a female Troll. (In the MYTH series, male trolls are ghastly monsters, female trolls are shapely super-model types, both with green hair. Both are insanely strong) A female troll is - you guessed it - a Trollop. "Tanda"s name is used directly because Aspirin's first book publisher said his first novel was a little bland, and could use a little more "T and A". So he gave it to them.


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## Klaus (Mar 17, 2004)

Lucas is perhaps the WORST namer in history...

Tatooine -> It's the name of the city where the desert scenes of Episode IV were shot...

Count Dooku -> Means "Count From-the-Arse" in more than one language

Queen Amidala -> Just call her Amigdala...

Ewok -> The original draft for Ep. VI would take place in the wookie home planet of Kashyyyk*, and wookies would tear loose on the stormtroopers. But then Lucas decided whe liked Chewbacca a lot as a handyman, so the battle between the low-tech wookies and the high-tech Empire was a no-go. He then decided to cut the wookies' size in half and changed the syllables of their name: Woo-kie -> E-wooki -> Ewok...

Kashyyyk -> c'mon...

Luke Skywalker -> So you're hiding your worst foe's son from him. Here's a genius idea! Give it to his brother to take care and (here's the catch) don't change his last name!!!! Why not have him be Luke Lars (after Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru)


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## Quasqueton (Mar 17, 2004)

> Actually, the Star Wars movies has THE most misunderstood lines in any movies I've watched.



Ep IV:

Ben is trying to sneak away from the tracter beam control. He gestures to make the stormtrooper guards look away.

ST1: What's that?

ST2: It's nothing. I'm gassy. Don't worry about it.


Quasqueton


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## mmu1 (Mar 17, 2004)

Assenpfeffer said:
			
		

> The names of the Dwarves come from the Dvergatal, part of the Elder Edda - Tolkien drew those names directly from Norse myth.




That's even worse - he didn't come up with the bad names, he _stole_ them. 

Wherever they came from, they're Dr.Seuss names.


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## drnuncheon (Mar 17, 2004)

Tallarn said:
			
		

> Keven Landwaster from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Worst. Name. Evar.




"Landwaster" is an epithet, not a last name, so it's not as bad as all that.

J


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## DanMcS (Mar 17, 2004)

Not book fiction, but movie: Underworld had the worst names.  The main villain was named "Craven".  One of the 'good' guys was named "Victor".  That one wasn't so slap-me-in-the-face bad, but every time the villain came out, I laughed at him, his name was synonymous with coward.


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 17, 2004)

Any one remember a short lived fantasy TV show, early 80's, the villian was named _Dirk Blackpool _ but it had others but that one has always stood out.  

I don't know if I mind as I have a terrible time coming up with names.


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## Tewligan (Mar 17, 2004)

Branduil said:
			
		

> The latest Star Wars movies have had some pretty uninspired names too. Jar Jar Binks? Count Dooku? Please.



Heh. Some of my friends and I use the euphemism "I'm going to battle Count Dooku" to mean going to the restroom for an extended period of time. We're idiots, you see.


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## Dirigible (Mar 18, 2004)

Robert Jordan. Grr.
Artur Paendrag? Grrr. 
Sheol Ghul? Grrr. 
Dhoom? Grrr. 
Trollocs? Grrr. 
Arad Domon? Grrr. 
Names of the Forsaken and Trolloc bands? GRRRRR. 
Angreal, sa'angreal and ter'angreal? GRRRR-RRR-RRR-R-RRRR! 
Tarmon Gaidon? GRAAAAAKKK-UNNNNGH-RRRR! (hulk out)

Also, I have the sneaky suspicion that 'Seanchan' is a joke waiting for a punchline.

Bad names can ruin a series. And Jordan don't need no help in that department.

However, for every crappy name he turns out, he produces one or two excellent ones.


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## Chain Lightning (Mar 18, 2004)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Yeah, it wasn't until I was in high school (and I first saw Star Wars on the big screen in '77 when I was three years old) that I realized that the X-Wing leaders said "Lock S-Foils in attack positions."  Up to then I always thought they said "Luck as falls...attack positions."




I'm so glad I wasn't the only one lost on some of those lines. Heh heh.

Although, you're version of "Luck as falls...attack positions" is better than what my friends and I thought it sounded like.

Which was, "Lock a$$h*les in attack positions"   


Speaking of naming skills. I've been told by one or two of my players that...while they like my stories and DMing in general.....my naming skills suck big time. I'm really trying to correct it, but I'm not sure how to. I hate to use real world names too much and I don't have enough time to Tolkien out several languages of my homebrew world. I admit, I usually just throw random vowels and consonants around till it 'feels' okay.

Example: I'll call some town _Aldoras_  or something. Then one player would exclaim, "Aldoras?!?" Like he can't believe what he's hearing, but then afterwards doesn't tell me why he thinks it sounds weird. I have suspicion though as to what it might be. I think he likes to use real world sounding names. In his own homebrew world, each kingdom has themes. Like, he'll use French like names for one country, Russian like ones for the other, etc.

Another player that was in another group of mine reads a lot of fantasy. He likes sticking to the general formulas for naming. Which I kinda agree...but really, I don't like spending that much time doing this. I'd rather concentrate on preparing stories, art, maps, etc. Anyways, he would say _Aldoras_ doesn't sound like a human city. Human cities should be like, "Greyfalls", "Windhaven", "Northfork", "Yellow Fields"....simple names peasants come up with that basically describe what the area or town is about. I agree, but sometimes I just run of names or they end up too similar to names in books we've read. Like Emon Fields ..or Whispering Wood.

What makes names acceptable? I think its mostly the tastes of the people hearing them. Mostly. But what makes some of my players think _Amn_ is okay, but _Aldoras_ isn't? I dunno.....  

Anyways, it always bugged me that it was my weakness. If I had time I'd try to make my names cooler. But I don't...barely any freetime as it is. Now, if I was a full time novelist...sure, I'd have no excuse.


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## s/LaSH (Mar 18, 2004)

Dirigible said:
			
		

> Robert Jordan. Grr.




Actually, I suspect all those names are carefully chosen - you can make stuff up, or you can suggest a bond to our world that's not immediately visible. Some of that stuff is awfully obscure, too - but it's all pretty specific. I just find it hard to believe that all that isn't just a huge hint that, once the world's broken again, we'll be looking at the ancestor of ours (and thus ours is the ancestor of the Age of Legends).

Or he's really lazy, in an obscure sort of way. But I like to think it's a theme.

Unless you're complaining about the mellifluity, rather than originality, of the words, in which case I take it all back. All of it. And there's no excuse for Dhoom in either case.


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## VirgilCaine (Mar 18, 2004)

Every person who writes a story and names the dragon "Draco" [Dragonheart, among others, IIRC]. Thank you for showing you have no imagination at all, people.



> Tatooine -> It's the name of the city where the desert scenes of Episode IV were shot...




When I read of that, it wasn't established whether the place was named for the planet or vice versa.



> Luke Skywalker -> So you're hiding your worst foe's son from him. Here's a genius idea! Give it to his brother to take care and (here's the catch) don't change his last name!!!! Why not have him be Luke Lars (after Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru)




Given, it wouldn't have been hard to change his name, but think of the chances that someone would encounter the kid...there's only two things Tatooine is known for--ti's pilots, and it being Jabba's home. Other than that, there's not anything to recommend it.



> And people ask me why I can't stand most anime.




Thank you! FInally! Someone who AGREES with me!



> *wolf is still laughing over Urasis Dragon*




I didn't get that for like five minutes...terrible...


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## WayneLigon (Mar 18, 2004)

Chain Lightning said:
			
		

> Although, you're version of "Luck as falls...attack positions" is better than what my friends and I thought it sounded like.



Man, it sounds like a lot of y'all need some hearing tests. 



> Anyways, he would say _Aldoras_ doesn't sound like a human city. Human cities should be like, "Greyfalls", "Windhaven", "Northfork", "Yellow Fields"....simple names peasants come up with that basically describe what the area or town is about.



And he doesn't think there are some extremely weird names for American towns and cities? We ripped off a lot of those names from languages and places all over the globe. Lots of others do that same. Maybe 'Aldoras' means 'Waymeet' in Elvish, or Gnomish. Maybe it's the surname of the woman who founded the place. Maybe it's the name of a fruit that grows nearby. There are a thousand possibilities. 

THere's only one novel series I've ever read that consistantly had names like he's suggesting:  Phyllis Ann Karr's _Frostflower and Windbourne,_ and _Frostflower and Thorn_. Towns were named things like Three-Bridges and All Roads West.


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## zyzzyr (Mar 19, 2004)

How can you talk about bad Star Wars names and not mention Porkins?

Remember him, the fat X-Wing pilot?  Porkins, get it?

ha.


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## FireLance (Mar 19, 2004)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> Every person who writes a story and names the dragon "Draco" [Dragonheart, among others, IIRC]. Thank you for showing you have no imagination at all, people.




I dunno, I imagine the (in-setting) naming of the dragon would go something like this...

Human: And how may we address you, O mighty dragon?

Dragon: My name, in the tongue of dragons, is [long, complicated sound involving much hissing, growling and tongue-twisting].

Human: (long pause) Would you mind if we just called you Draco?


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## Fajitas (Mar 19, 2004)

Chain Lightning said:
			
		

> But what makes some of my players think _Amn_ is okay, but _Aldoras_ isn't?




Y'know, on the subject of Amn, we had a memorable D&D game once in which our poor PCs were defending a keep about to be attacked in force by the Amnish army.  It was a dire and serious situation, six against thousands, and we all just kept giggling our socks off 'cause, well, it ain't very far between "Amnish Army" and "Amish Army".

Finally, when we couldn't stand it anymore, the GM raised his hand for silence, cleared his throat, and announced, "It is henceforth the _Amnite_ Army."

Things have been much better since then.

And, yeah, someone should be deported for Count Dooku.  Nothing with a double O in it sounds scary.


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## Hypersmurf (Mar 19, 2004)

I was always fond of the naming conventions Robert Rodriguez used for characters in _Desperado_.

Steve Buscemi plays _Buscemi_.  _Cristos_ was played by Cristos.  The guy who shrugs a lot is _Shrug_.  Bucho's right-hand man is _Right-Hand_.

I'm not sure if that's better or worse than sitcoms where a comedian plays the lead role... a character who happens to have the same name as him or herself.

Drew Carey, Jerry Seinfeld... are they worried someone will say "Harry", and there'll be a long pause, and then "Oh, that's my character, right?"

Bleh.

-Hyp.


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## danzig138 (Mar 19, 2004)

Branduil said:
			
		

> Everyone knows that when it comes to naming things in a fantasy world, Tolkien is King.



Gimli? This does not strike fear into the heart. Legolas Greenleaf? So began years of bad elven names. Frodo Baggins? Sounds like a plant to me. 
That said, Count Dooku really, really sucks as a name. Jar Jar Binks is right behind it. Those are the two worst the come immediately to mind.


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## danzig138 (Mar 19, 2004)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> 'Urasis Dragon'



Most certainly a name that should never be spoken


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## danzig138 (Mar 19, 2004)

Richards said:
			
		

> a burly brawler who was supposed to be a really tough SOB, was named "Rupert Rainbow."



I might be scared of a dude named Rupert Rainbow: sounds like someone with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.


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## Dirigible (Mar 19, 2004)

> Or he's really lazy, in an obscure sort of way. But I like to think it's a theme.




Naah. I prefer to think of him as lazy. God, but Artur Paendrag makes my teeth grit every time I read it...


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## John Q. Mayhem (Mar 19, 2004)

How 'bout some of the names in Battlefield Earth (NOT the movie)? One of the bad guys is named Roof Arsebogger, for crying out loud!


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## Klaus (Mar 19, 2004)

In Dragonheart, there is an explanation for Draco's name. Bowen (Dennis Quaid) keeps calling him "Dragon", which annoys big D to no end. So Bowen asks his name, and the dragon lets out a roar that no human throat could manage. So Bowen asks if it's ok to call him "Draco". At first, the dragon is annoyed of just being called "Dragon" in another language. But once he learns that "Draco" is the name of the constellation of "Dragon", where he believes his heaven is, he agrees proudly to be called Draco.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Mar 19, 2004)

Branduil said:
			
		

> Everyone knows that when it comes to naming things in a fantasy world, Tolkien is King.



It's already come out a few times in this thread, but c'mon.  Having a detailed and internally consistent set of languages is a great thing.  The lack of internal consistency in most fantasy (naming conventions and otherwise) is one of the biggest problems in the genre.  But Tolkien could hardly be called the "King" of this aspect.

Ye gods, I've spent more time explaining and re-explaining the difference between Sauron and Saruman in the last three years...  I mean, who in their right mind makes their two main villains have nearly identical names?

And this has already been mentioned, but bears further comment.  Most of the Dwarven names are awful.  They may have been wonderful and evocative in Ancient Norse and Saxon, but in modern English they just sound silly.


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## Claude Raines (Mar 20, 2004)

The worst one I can remember is Hiro Protagonist from Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. He might as well hit us over the head with a cinder block while he's at it. Otherwise we might not be able to figure out who the good guy is.


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## Chain Lightning (Mar 20, 2004)

Assenpfeffer wrote: 







> And people ask me why I can't stand most anime.




VirgilCaine wrote:







> Thank you! FInally! Someone who AGREES with me!




Okay, be patient with me guys. This is a natural reaction when we get together and discuss topics. Sometimes we'll agree on stuff and sometimes we'll disagree. That's what fun about debating, discussing, etc. Anyways, you have to admit that its natural that someone will feel a 'need' to defend something they enjoy when they percieve someone else disliking it. Like when someone says, "I hate Lord of the Rings because of _xxxx_." Y'know that's going to bring a boat load of defenders.

Well, I love anime...so I gotta jump in now after two of these comments.  I'm sure the two of you are sick of hearing people trying to change your minds, but I gotta be another one.

While you may hate anime for multiple reasons, I can't imagine the names being a major one. It sounds to me (and this is only my opinion mind you of what I'm guessing) that you guys have a series of major reasons why you hate anime, and the names commonly used are only one of the minor ones. But when you hate something, every little thing can become fuel for that hatred too. Like people who hate Star Wars Phantom Menace (which include me). They hate Jar Jar, they hate the story, they hate the acting. But soon they're saying stuff like, "I hate the backpack Anakin wore", "I hate all those Pod Racers", "I hate how Darth Maul spins in the air", etc.

C'mon, you know those aren't the main reasons you hate it right? Its just that your hatred becomes an irratation that spills onto everything else that has to do with it.

The designs of the Pod Racers or how Anakin's backpack looked like wouldn't have been a factor if the over-all quality of Phantom Menace rocked. I think its the same way with your guy's hatred for Anime. When Assenpfeffer wrote,"And people ask me why I can't stand most anime," I thought to myself that you couldn't possible say that the names WERE THE MAJOR reason when that topic comes up. Its probably the eyes, or the long slow pans, or something usual haters say right?

Anyways, I just feel a little irratation when someone spills their hatred over to another part of the thing they hate. So, I'm not sure what point or counter-point I'm trying to make here. Its really a shame, one of my favorite anime series has horrible names and costume designs. 

That's "JoJo's Bizarre Adventures" [the original six parter that is]. My goodness, those costume designs and names are horrible. But man, the story, concept, and everything is so cool. I remember not sitting down to watch it because I hated how it looked and I hated all the little things I've heard about it. Mostly the names. Then one evening I was bored and was willing to watch anything. My friend forced me to watch this thing. He was very insistant. Well, I'm glad I gave it a chance, it was awesome.  But I definitely wouldn't show it to you guys.  I got a feeling that no matter how smartly it was written, you'd walk out on it still disgusted with anime. 

*shrug* too bad.....missing out on some good stuff. Sure beats what's on most Saturday morning cartoons IMHO.

BACK on topic.

In response to when I said:







> Anyways, he would say Aldoras doesn't sound like a human city. Human cities should be like, "Greyfalls", "Windhaven", "Northfork", "Yellow Fields"....simple names peasants come up with that basically describe what the area or town is about.




WayneLigon wrote:







> And he doesn't think there are some extremely weird names for American towns and cities? We ripped off a lot of those names from languages and places all over the globe. Lots of others do that same. Maybe 'Aldoras' means 'Waymeet' in Elvish, or Gnomish. Maybe it's the surname of the woman who founded the place. Maybe it's the name of a fruit that grows nearby. There are a thousand possibilities.




That's what I thought too. But I guess when it comes to certain people they have a criteria that needs to be met. I suppose my friend doesn't feel like he's playing in a fantasy world unless the names are sounding the way he thinks they ought to sound.  :\  Its too bad that , it is that one thing that is keeping him from enjoying the game as much as he could be.


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## mmu1 (Mar 20, 2004)

Claude Raines said:
			
		

> The worst one I can remember is Hiro Protagonist from Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. He might as well hit us over the head with a cinder block while he's at it. Otherwise we might not be able to figure out who the good guy is.




I think it's pretty obvious the name was intended as a _joke_.


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## Holy Bovine (Mar 20, 2004)

Claude Raines said:
			
		

> The worst one I can remember is Hiro Protagonist from Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. He might as well hit us over the head with a cinder block while he's at it. Otherwise we might not be able to figure out who the good guy is.




Oh good gravy.  The name is a joke.  They even make fun of it _in the novel itself_.  Since I am just re-reading Snow Crash I find this quite amusing.


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## Dagger75 (Mar 20, 2004)

I may get hatemail for this.  Bobba Fett.  That is a horrible first name.  What was Jango thinking?

 Lucas sucks at naming characters.


 And as a DM, if I had 2 evil bad guys named Sarumon and Sauron my players would never keep them straight.


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## EntropyDecay (Mar 20, 2004)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> I may get hatemail for this.  Bobba Fett.  That is a horrible first name.  What was Jango thinking?



And the worst thing is that "Fett" means "fat" in German. When I was a child and saw the movies for the first time I thought "Why is he called fat? He isn't that massive." Plus Bobba is a stupid first name.


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## Iron_Chef (Mar 20, 2004)

Tanager said:
			
		

> There's always the Chinese cult classic film, _Inframan_, with it's supreme villainess *Princess Dragon-Mom*




I love Inframan! 

Princess Dragon-Mom was so sexy, she gave me a case of ______!


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## Hammerhead (Mar 23, 2004)

Hiro Protagonist is, by far, the best name for a character. Ever.

You'll never forget it.


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## John Q. Mayhem (Mar 25, 2004)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Bowen asks his name, and the dragon lets out a roar that no human throat could manage.




Minor nitpick: That wasn't his name. He had just been stabbed, and was in pain. Hence all the rearing back, the clutching at the chest, the pain and stuff...
Not trying (hard) to be rude, but it was pretty obvious.


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## Klaus (Mar 25, 2004)

Yeah, I just watched the movie for the first time in years, and he roars because he got stabbed. But the rest I got right!


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## drnuncheon (Mar 25, 2004)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> THere's only one novel series I've ever read that consistantly had names like he's suggesting:  Phyllis Ann Karr's _Frostflower and Windbourne,_ and _Frostflower and Thorn_. Towns were named things like Three-Bridges and All Roads West.




Glen Cook's Black Company books had similar namings.

All I have to say is, "There's no way humans would ever name places things like 'Mississippi' or 'Bangkok' (stop snickering) or even 'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch'.  That would be _completely_ unrealistic."

J


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## maggot (Mar 25, 2004)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> And as a DM, if I had 2 evil bad guys named Sarumon and Sauron my players would never keep them straight.




I kind of like the fact that a fictional world is not necessary made to be all neat and pretty.  Having two guys with similar names makes the world somehow more "real."  After all, I work with two Daves, a David, and two Scotts, and my friends include two more Scotts and two more Davids.

From that point of view, the bad guys should have had the same name and actually so should a hero or two.  Sauron searches to destroy the ring of Sauron (no the other Sauron), while Sarumon betrays Sauron (a third guy) to Sauron (that second guy).  Or maybe not.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Mar 25, 2004)

Realism and good storytelling are not necessarily the same thing.

It may be realistic to have 6 guys named John and/or Johnny in a story, but it doesn't help its readability in the slightest.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Mar 25, 2004)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> Hiro Protagonist is, by far, the best name for a character. Ever.
> 
> You'll never forget it.



Hiro Protagonist reminds me of a character from a Kara-Tur/OA adventure our DM adapted for the 3.0 Oriental Adventures.
The NPC was an aged Samurai and our characters helped him on some of his lasts quests. His name was "Minhiro". In our ears it sounded like a mixture of Plattdeutsch (some kind of dialect that is spoken in East Frisia, a part of Germany - and also in some parts of the USA, where East Frisians immigrants settled) and English, with the meaning of "My Hero".  

I guess, with all the languages around on this world, it is unavoidable that most names sound funny to some people. Though still an author could avoid unintended funny names in his mother tongue. 

Mustrum Ridcully


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## BiggusGeekus (Mar 25, 2004)

Fajitas said:
			
		

> Nothing with a double O in it sounds scary.




Except for Hong Ooi.

...

The 'Sword of Truth' series has some pretty bad names.  The Red Dragon "Scarlet" ranks up there.  A friend of my rented that on books-on-tape.  They gave her a southern-US accent.  You know?  Like from _Gone With The Wind_?  Scarlett?  Get it?  

Sigh.  At least there's nothing in that series I liked so I can't say that the names ruined it for me.

Jordan gets a pass from me.  He's doing some loopy things with time in that novel.  Randland takes place in Earth's past AND future ("time is a wheel") so the nameing conventions are going to be a little wacky.

Oh, and Neal Stephenson as at least three Divine Ranks.  There is nothing wrong with "Hiro Protagonist"!


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## hong (Mar 26, 2004)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Except for Hong Ooi.




But "hong" doesn't have a double O in it.


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## Dragonblade (Mar 27, 2004)

I'm surprised no one mentioned "Pug" from Raymond Feist's series. One of the most powerful Sorcerers to ever walk Midkemia and his name is PUG!!!?!?

I love the books but hated that name.

Also, Robert Jordan's names are all carefully chosen to reflect famous literary, historical, or mythological people from the real world.

If you have the time, read through the Wheel of Time FAQ. A search on Yahoo or Google should pull it up. Its absolutely fascinating and more proof to me that Jordan's work is brilliant. A worthy successor to Tolkien. Despite all the Jordan bashers that hang out in this forum.

Here is some interesting info and speculation from the Wheel of Time FAQ regarding the origins of Jordan's names (this is only a small sample. The actual FAQ is very extensive and covers more of Jordan's obscure references to all sorts of myths, cultures, literature, etc):

Asmodean: A demon described in the Old Testament book of Tobit, which is included only in the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox canon of scriptures (you won't find it in Jewish or Protestant Bibles; it's considered apocrypha in those circles). In the book of Tobit, Sara had been married seven times, but Asmodeus had slain all of them before they could consummate their marriage (Tobit 3:7-8). Sara eventually married Tobias, the son of Tobit, who was able to banish Asmodeus by burning the heart and liver of a special fish given to him by the angel Raphael in their bedchamber (Tobit 6:16-17, 8:2-3). Asmodeus fled to Egypt, where Raphael caught up with him and bound him up. [Rafael Sevilla] 

Ba'alzamon: Ba'al, Baelzebub, or Ba'al Shamin (literally, "the lord of the heavens," an appellation of Ba'al). Baelzebub, Lord of the Flies, was an ancient Canaanite fertility deity that competed with worship of Yahweh in Old Testament times. Later became a euphemism for the devil from the time of Christ on (see Matthew 10:24, 12:24-27, Mark 3:22, and Luke 11:15-18) from its similarity to the Aramaic word beeldebaba ("enemy"), and from the fact that many ancient pagan gods were demonized in Christian times anyway. [Rafael Sevilla] 

Be'lal: Belial, literally means "worthless" in Hebrew; "sons of Belial" is used throughout the Bible to denote evil men. Eventually becomes the name of a demon in Medieval times. [Rafael Sevilla] Belial was often noted as commanding legions, and has been referred to as the general of Hell. Be'lal was one of the noted generals of the Shadow. [John Novak] 

Lews Therin/Lord of the Morning: Lucifer, "the morning star". The literal translation of Lucifer is "bringer of light" [Matthew Forrester]. 

Lothair Mantelar (Founder of The Children of the Light): Martin Luther? 

M'Hael: Michael the Archangel who was Lucifer's chief opponent. The derivation of Michael is "Mikha'el" from the Hebrew meaning "who is like god". [Michael Schmidt] Michael was the great prince of all angels and leader of the celestial armies. [Encyclopedia Mythica] Amnon Wenger adds that the Hebrew word "m'nahael" means "principal" or "person in charge". 

Sammael: A member of Lucifer's host, often incorrectly identified as another name for Lucifer himself. Jeremy Yoskowitz tells us that "Samael" is an earlier name for Uriel, the angel of death from the Kabbalah. Some versions of the Lilith legend name Sammael as her husband (after Adam spurned her), and general of the army of demonspawn they birthed together. Their goal was to replace Eve's children with Lilith's. 

Shayol Ghul: Sheol: Hebrew for hell; Ghul: Gol or Gul, Arabic for Demon 

Tarmon Gai'don: Armageddon 

Amyrlin: Merlin/Myrddin, Arthur's chief advisor/magician, etc. 

Moiraine: Morgaine/Morgan Le Fay 

Morgase: Morgause 

Tigraine: Ygrainne, King Arthur's mother, seduced by Uther Pendragon with Merlin's aid. 

Egwene al'Vere: Guenever/Guinevere 

Artur Paendrag: Arthur Pendragon 

Callandor: Excalibur, the sword in the stone 

Galad: Galahad the Pure 

Gawyn: Gawain 

Green Man: Green Knight or Green Man 

Sa'angreal: San Greal (Holy Grail). An alternate spelling, Sang Real, translates to "holy or royal blood" [Robert Mee]. 

Nynaeve: Nyneve/Vivian: who was Merlin's lover and cause of his imprisonment in the enchanted cave in Cornwall. 

Perrin: Perceval? 

Merrilin: Merlin again (advisor to a Queen). 

Lan: Launcelot? 

Damodred/Demandred: Mordred? Mordred was Arthur's bastard son by his aunt Morgawse, and his slayer. 

Elayne: Elayne/Elaine: The first Elayne is sister to Queens Morgawse and Ygrainne (King Arthur's mother). Another version of Arthurian legends (not Malory) asserts that she is one of the three women in Arthur's funeral boat to Avalon... The second Elaine is Sir Galahad's mother, by Sir Launcelot. 

Luthair Paendrag: Uther Pendragon (Now Artur's son, instead of his father) 
Tar Valon: Avalon 

Caemlyn: Camlaan (where Arthur fought his final battle against Mordred) or Camelot. 

Ji'e'toh: Bushido


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## Pants (Mar 27, 2004)

The problem is... a lot of those names don't coincide well with the characters or places in the books by those definitions 
Not that I'm complaining...


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## Dragonblade (Mar 27, 2004)

Pants said:
			
		

> The problem is... a lot of those names don't coincide well with the characters or places in the books by those definitions
> Not that I'm complaining...




You are absolutely right. But I have noticed that all of the origins of the character names imply or state something about that character.

For example, even though Artur Paendrag and Egwene Al'vere never knew each other and lived hundreds of years apart, there is something of their namesake in their characters. For example, being named after Arthur Pendragon fits a character that ruled over an "enlightened" and civilized empire.

Likewise Egwene, much like Guinevere, originally loves the man hero/king, but finds out later that she loves someone else. Furthermore, she is effectively a "queen" of the world if you consider her position post book 6.

And then there is Galad, my personal favorite character. He is just like his namesake, only not quite so innocent. But he is pure and good, albeit ruthless. One of the best literary portrayals of a paladinesque character I have ever read. And of course, I don't mean the watered down holy social worker the paladin class has devolved to in 3rd edition. I'm talking about the smite-the-infidel badass based on the Knights Templar that Gygax gave us in 1st Edition.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Mar 27, 2004)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> And then there is Galad, my personal favorite character. He is just like his namesake, only not quite so innocent. But he is pure and good, albeit ruthless. One of the best literary portrayals of a paladinesque character I have ever read. And of course, I don't mean the watered down holy social worker the paladin class has devolved to in 3rd edition. I'm talking about the smite-the-infidel badass based on the Knights Templar that Gygax gave us in 1st Edition.



Except his moral barometer is completely wonky.  He always does "what _he_ thinks is right."  (emphasis mine).  But as far as I can tell, what he thinks is right is generally not consistent with standards of morality in either our culture or those of the books.

That makes for a pretty poor paladin, IMO.


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## Dragonblade (Mar 27, 2004)

Canis said:
			
		

> Except his moral barometer is completely wonky.  He always does "what _he_ thinks is right."  (emphasis mine).  But as far as I can tell, what he thinks is right is generally not consistent with standards of morality in either our culture or those of the books.
> 
> That makes for a pretty poor paladin, IMO.




Ah but thats what makes his character interesting.  Of course, I don't always agree with Galad's actions, but his character is fascinating. All the good characters in Randland look at the context of the situation they find themselves in and try to do what is right given the circumstances and their own needs.

Galad always does what he thinks is right, regardless of his own needs or the context of the situation. His moral code is absolute, in sharp contrast with those whose moral code is a bit more objective (or even subjective). Galad will do the "right" thing even if it kills him and those around him. Its almost like all those paladin threads about narrow-minded paladins being stupid good or lawful stupid because they slavishly follow their code like a robot. Yet, Galad's character manages to deftly avoid all those pitfalls while still being devoted to his absolute moral code.

I also enjoy the parallel between Galad, Rand, The Dark One and Padan Fain.

The Dark One is pretty much LE, while Padan Fain is CE. Rand is CG, while Galad is LG. At least this is my opinion of where they stand. Arguments could be made that Rand is more NG. But its interesting how these four characters are these moral polarizing elements in the story.


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