# Elements of Magic teaser, Move Element list



## RangerWickett (Oct 20, 2003)

This isn't quite as pretty as I would have liked, but hopefully you'll settle for a .doc file.  If one of you could convert this to .rtf and reupload it, that'd be great.

Please tell me what you think, particularly if you're okay with Fire representing spirit movement.


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## Khorod (Oct 20, 2003)

*Move Death: "Except when using the Still or Anchor option, a creature’s base movement cannot be reduced below 10 ft. (unless of course its original base speed is less).  "

Not to nitpick, but here's a nit.  So... what does Move Death do to something with a speed of 10?

*Move Fire: Great notion linking it to spirit.  The spark of a soul, fire-scrying, the celestial bodies of the mythological Astral Plane, all point to fire.  If you rotated the symbolism, Life or Death would be the next best.  Just out of curiosity, how would one Move Fire in the literal sense?  Force?

*Move Life: I get a kick out of that table.  If it incremented in 13's it would be even better   Does hurling yourself forward at +1000 movement also negate inertia?  'Cause stopping would hurt.  (I assume that's a yes, but had to ask)

*In the Move Space Teleport Precision Paragraph, its unclear what the DC's are.  Then I saw DC 20.  Then I saw the table listing the actual DCs.  That's a heart-attack or -burn inducing format.

*Move Time: Maybe the heart attack frequency would be reduced if the introductory Move Time was to Move yourself in Initiative Order?  Starting smaller means ending without a universe in flux.

That was probably more specific than you had meant, but I enjoyed myself so you can just... um.  Give me more to look at?  I didn't get the earlier EoM, but I'll have to get the new one...


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## Khorod (Oct 20, 2003)

That was odd, the attachment manager wouldn't recognize or accept .rtf.  Doesn't seem to be on The List.

Here's a zipped RTF.


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## SpuneDagr (Oct 20, 2003)

Hmm. It seems like this isn't so much Move [element] as it is Move Via [element]. Is there a way to really move elements? How would I take a big pile of rocks and build them into a big tower? How do I empty a lake? How do I create a strong breeze?

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this book, it looks AWESOME!


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## Kannik (Oct 20, 2003)

*-trying to breathe-*

c.v.:  Move Time

must... try... to... breathe... too... funny... for... monday... morning...  }:>

Kannik

(in all seriousness(?), really looking forward to the revised }


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## RangerWickett (Oct 20, 2003)

SpuneDagr said:
			
		

> Hmm. It seems like this isn't so much Move [element] as it is Move Via [element]. Is there a way to really move elements? How would I take a big pile of rocks and build them into a big tower? How do I empty a lake? How do I create a strong breeze?
> 
> Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this book, it looks AWESOME!




If you want to move a bunch of rocks around, use Move Force if you just want to shove them around.  If you want to levitate the rocks and build a castle, you'd need Move Force and Move Air to float them around.  Or you could possibly just use Transform Earth to reshape stone, but that'd be a very high level spell.  Basically, it'd either take a long time, moving a few boulders with each spell, or it'd take a very powerful spell.

For draining a lake, you could use move force to push the water out, or maybe Transform Water and Air to just evaporate the water.  To create a strong breeze, I suppose you could use Move Force, but there are more precise rules for using Create Air.  You can also do it with Evoke Air if you just buy the elemental effect and not any damage.

Actually, I'm wondering if I should change Move Force to give you an effective Strength to move things with.


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## RangerWickett (Oct 20, 2003)

Oh, and as for Earthquakes, that one is proving a bit tough.  Move isn't what you want, but I'm not sure if it should be Transform to reshape the earth, or Evoke to damage the ground.  Either one is a rather high-end spell, though.


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## Khorod (Oct 20, 2003)

Giving Strength to Move Force would be useful, particularly for doing things like pushing a boulder out of a Giant's hands.


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## Blue mage for hire (Jan 1, 2004)

Hi! I have some suggestions for Move Time.  How about:

0 mp- +1 slots in Initative order
3 mp- +4 slots in Initative order
5 mp- Target moves next. (a la Quick from Final Fantasy 5, 6, and maybe 7.)
12 mp- Gain two turns in a round where everyone else only gains one.
17 mp- Time stop (as the 9th level spell in D&D)
18+ mp- This is where you start going back in time, but it shouldn't be too far back.  A round, an hour, and a day are all pretty good.  A week's pushing it, even for 20 mp.  

Also, can I recommend a spell list?
Evoke [Creature]
function: does damage to creature type.  Example Evoke [Undead], for those of you who miss the FF1's White Mages' Harm (Dia) spells.
0-1d6 versus creature
1-1d10 + level (max +5)
3- 3d10 +level (max +15)
etc, etc, etc!
Also: No Spellcaster may choose his own type for the spell, i.e. A Lich who is a White Mage (orginal Elements of Magic class) cannot choose to Evoke Undead, Nor an Elven Ranger choose an Evoke spell versus Orcs or Giants, because their humanoids.

Whew, My. First. Post. Ever.  
ps.  I'm not that much of a Final Fantasy nut, but I bought the orignal EoM and notice just a tiny bit of a connection.  Besides that, where did you come up with Green and Grey mages?

lol, thats a big post.  I really over did it.


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## RangerWickett (Jan 2, 2004)

Your idea for Move Time is what Infuse Time does.  It lets people take actions faster.  And Evoke Creature can work, I suppose, but there's an option available to let your spells affect just specific targets in the area of effect, so 'Evoke Creature' might be a little unnecessary.  Thanks for the question, though, and next time, please post longer questions.  I need more excuses to stay up online late at night.


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## Blue mage for hire (Jan 5, 2004)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> Your idea for Move Time is what Infuse Time does.  It lets people take actions faster.
> 
> Hmm... Well, okay.  The main idea behind my Move Time interpretation (WTH did I just say?) was TIME STOP at 17 MP just as the 9th level spell in the 3rd and 3.5 edition Player's Handbook, representing slowing time down to the point that it stopped for you, and going so slow at higher levels that you're effectively moving back in time.  But, If you want limitations in the name of game balance, you could have move time affect your age, in other words, if you go to a hundred or two years back or forward in time, you either die from old age or unbirth.  Then we have Elves to think about..........so much for world balance. (world balance?  Its the logic behind game balance.  Why isn't this GM having trouble bleeding off PC wealth?  Because s/he thought out where all (if any) money the monsters are carrying came from and why the monsters are gathering treasure in the first place (sure, Minotaurs love +2 Greatswords of making PC races get really big boo-boos, but where do they spend the gold or gems they find?)
> 
> ANYWAY, I thought I'd ask this; How would I go make a Mage that gains his magic from the parts of monsters, and still be fun to play, practacal, and holding on to the fact that he relies on the type of magical creatures that exist in the world using the EoM system? (I don't really expect you to answer this sometime soon, but it WILL keep you at night.  Oh yeah, and the post is long.)


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## Blue mage for hire (Jan 5, 2004)

Oh yeah, and the post is long.[/QUOTE]



Why can't I get of the topic my long posts!!?


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## Dalamar (Jan 6, 2004)

Well, you could make Move Time the opposite of Infuse Time, low MP costs imposing Init penalties, then _slow_ at some point as well as _time hop_ (third-level psionic power).


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## Blue mage for hire2 (Jan 7, 2004)

Hi, first of all, I would like to say that yes, I'm THAT Blue mage for hire.  I've been having boatloads of trouble logging in, so I registered a new name.  Anyway, I have another idea for Move Time:
          Okay, specifically, the main problem with Move Time is if the pc's (or npc's for that matter) abuse this to change the past and screw over the universe.  For example, don't like someone? Go back into the past and kill his pregant mother.  You never met him.  But then, if the Time mage becomes so powerful that the past is not set in stone for him, then he is THE class, and everyone has different ideas about what the past should be.  But that assumes you can AFFECT the PAST.
What!?
Exactly.  So affecting the past is a no-no, what about viewing it?  Or just going to the future.  Theres a reason for me to put empasis on both effect or past.  If Scry lets you see the present, Move Space lets you affect the faraway present, Divination lets you see the future, but what about affecting the future or viewing the past? (Actually, maybe divination already does that, but hey, you no longer have only second hand accounts from self-righteous historians who write biased reports.)  Foretelling the future has been a fasination, but no one ever thought of seeing the past.  Here are some possible rules I think are cool:

1: You can go into the near future, fight the bad guys a couple of rounds, warp back, and fight them with the very real expectations of being helped by yourselves!  Be warned, though or you and your allies (and their "other" selves) will have to make will saves (DC 23) or attack their counterpart in a severe identity crisis as happens with many wizards in the Harry Potter universe (Or David in the movie AI, even though it wasn't neccessarily time travel; David: No, I'M DAVID!!! I'M DAVID!!! I'M DAVID *smashes the other David's head open*.)

2: You can visit the past with a black-and-white overtune and watch say, the first amphibion emerge from the water.  But you're watching a memory, and you get affect it in anyway.  The time, the second, the instant that I began typing this post is gone, I can't do anything else to that event.  The people who died are gone, that great taco joint is gone, all those events are gone, swallowed up by the hungry void that is the past.  But don't waste your time worrying about the mere time you've wasted!  Enjoy life, and replace the History Channel with a good dose of Move Time.  Sorry about all the depression.

3.  Don't forget: The more expensive the spell, the further you can go, the longer you can stay, and the more you can do (with the past-watching option at high levels, you might even be able to actually affect the past!  While the Future-only option makes low-level spells allows you to do nothing in the future but watch, just more effective, cooler Divinations.

4:  You usually, you need to Scry and then Teleport.  Why not combine Divination and Move Time in the same way?  What is time, specifically?  Not the terms we can use in an attempt to describe it (seconds, days, events, years, etc.), but the real force.  The chain that links yesterday to today to tommorrow to the day after that?  Surely, you have to know the coordinates of your target destination, or you miss by a few years, or even get thrown out of the space-time continuum!  This works in with ANY way you do Move Time.  Don't forget that only moving through time, not space, so if your standing on top of a castle that wasn't built in the time you warp to, well..... its a looooooonnnnnngggg way down.

5: Preserve, Decay, Temporal stasis, don't forget these spells/ lists if you haven't done them in infuse or something.

So remember AFFECT the PAST is the problem, make it less difficult for a DM, more dangerous for the mage using it, or just less useful and you got yourself a fully-functional, game-balanced Move Time.


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## Blue mage for hire2 (Jan 7, 2004)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> Well, you could make Move Time the opposite of Infuse Time, low MP costs imposing Init penalties, then _slow_ at some point as well as _time hop_ (third-level psionic power).




Oh, and I think Dalamar's idea is great, just it doesn't seem very Move-like to me.


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## Blue mage for hire2 (Jan 7, 2004)

Blue mage for hire2 said:
			
		

> Don't forget that only moving through time, not space,
> 
> So remember AFFECT the PAST is the problem
> 
> ...


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## RangerWickett (Jan 7, 2004)

It seems half the time like you're time traveling to yourself and talking to yourself.  Heh.

Anyway, Move Time is just time hopping forward for right now.  Divination lets you see or learn about the past and future, and Scry lets you see elsewhere in the present.


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## RangerWickett (Jan 7, 2004)

The full release in pdf format is still at least a month away, but the complete teaser with all the sample material should be released before the end of this week.  I've sent it off to a few people for proofreading.


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## Blue mage for hire2 (Jan 7, 2004)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> the complete teaser with all the sample material should be released before the end of this week.  .




*does the macarena*

*stops himself*

*does the chicken dance*

*Chicken dance music starts out of nowhere*

*stops himself to end the gay music*

I need to learn new some ways to celebrate.  Oh,well.

*waits patiently for teaser and tries to supress violent urge to go play simgirl on newgrounds.com*


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## gpetruc (Jan 7, 2004)

Trying to solve the problem of Move Time ...
just rule that you can't modify the past in a way to achieve a paradox. 

Travelling back in time could be done a bit like what happens in the Legends series of Dragonlance (except for the kenders and gnomes)

Little changes could be possible, and you would keep all your experience (and knowledge, damage, money, items ...) you earned in the past, providing the things can be "fixed" in a way that everything seems ok. 

Otherwise, if you try (for example) to kill your foe's mother before he is born, you will simply fail for a reason (for example a misterious stranger saves her) that was not known to you before going back in time.

Instead you could go in the past, find the entrance of a ruined temple, steal a gem inside the temple and get back. In the histories of those ancient time it will be recorded (but maybe these memories have been lost since now). 

You could even look in ancient histories, find records of "misterious people" and try to go back in time and be those people (maybe you can, maybe not, you won't know before ...)

This still leaves some burden on the DM, but solves the main issues while leaving open the possibility to travel in the past.

What do you think ?


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## Verequus (Jan 7, 2004)

gpetruc said:
			
		

> Trying to solve the problem of Move Time ...
> just rule that you can't modify the past in a way to achieve a paradox.



So one can't change knowingly the past to kill his mother, but what about doing this unknowingly? Just making someone slip and fall on his bottom could create a future war with some casualties... Have we to rule that it isn't possible? Or have we to use another approach: You don't change your past but you create a new parallel universe in which your mother is dead?


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## Kannik (Jan 7, 2004)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> The full release in pdf format is still at least a month away, but the complete teaser with all the sample material should be released before the end of this week.




-trumpets and cheers on both announcements!-  

Now, watch me hit the boards to check every 30 seconds until I see it posted... }

Kannik


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