# Non-D&D Fantasy Games - the best and why?



## Stormonu (Sep 19, 2012)

There's been a few non-D&D/non-Pathfinder fantasy games that have come out in last few years and I'm the type whose keen to collect them.  So I'm curious to know more about some of them and why others think so highly of them.  I'm trying to steer away from universal systems (such as GURPS) and concentrate on those that are primarily rooted in being a fantasy game.

Here's a few I know of to get started.  I own a few of these (those with a "*" beside them), but haven't really gotten to play them much.  If folks could expound what the like from each, I'd appreciate it.

Castles & Crusades *
OSRIC *
Labyrinth Lord *
Dragon Age *
13th Age *
Conan RPG * (I think there's also another Conanesque game out...Hyboria something?)
Hackmaster, 4th edition
Dungeon Crawl Classics (DCC) Classics
Lamentations of the Flame Princess


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## Dragonblade (Sep 19, 2012)

13th Age is easily my number one choice. But I would also recommend FantasyCraft or the new Iron Kingdoms RPG.

13th Age is my favorite. The classes are mechanically rich and interesting, but its gridless and focused on narrative and story. It feels like AD&D but if AD&D had been designed with modern 3e/4e style mechanics. It also feels loose, and free, like old school games do. I'm planning a sandbox campaign using it as soon as the core book comes out.

FantasyCraft is good, but definitely crunchy. Where Pathfinder took 3e and went right, FantasyCraft took 3e and went left. And I don't mean that as a political analogy. I mean it started from the same foundation, but went its own path. In some respects, it seems to share some of the same design sensibilities that have informed 13th Age, but brought with it a lot more of the rules crunch that 13th Age didn't, making it more similar to Pathfinder in that respect.

The new IK RPG is not a d20 game (the old one was d20 based). It is d6 based, but the system is remarkably similar to d20 at its core. The setting and artwork are amazing and the rules and setting are tightly integrated. It has some old school grit to it, but at the same time, the pervasive steampunk gear and magic make it feel more high powered. Its cool. I'm a fan. 

I'll also throw in the old Palladium Fantasy RPG. Setting-wise, I think the Palladium Fantasy RPG has a certain old school charm to it. But the ruleset is definitely stuck in the 80's. Still, its similar enough to d20 that you could convert the setting over to any of the afore-mentioned games and it would work. Except maybe IK. The mechanics are too closely tied to the setting for easy conversion, IMO.


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## Karak (Sep 19, 2012)

I would say 13th age as well if we are talking pretty recent. I really liked it more than I thought I would.


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## Turbiales (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm actually enjoying FantasyCraft and is a great alternative even to Pathfinder!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 19, 2012)

I know you said no toolbox games...but I have to say Fantasy HERO. (Fanboi!)

Of the D20 derived games not named above:

1) Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved
2) Midnight 2Ed
3) True20
4) Mutants & Masterminds with Warlocks & Warriors and The Book of Spells supplements.
5) Swashbuckling Adventures
6) Slaine
7) Thieves' World
8) The Black Company

Others I like:
1) Earthdawn
2) Talisantha
3) Harn
4) Stormbringer
5) Hawkmoon
6) Corum
7) The Fantasy Trip/In the Labyrinth
8) Everway
9) WoD


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## Yora (Sep 19, 2012)

Midnight is amazing, but it really is pretty much a D&D 3.5e setting book. It has additional races, classes, and feats but most are just straight out of the SRD and not even reprinted in the book. Preparing spells works different, but they are still the same spells.


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## trancejeremy (Sep 19, 2012)

Stormonu said:


> There's been a few non-D&D/non-Pathfinder fantasy games that have come out in last few years and I'm the type whose keen to collect them.  So I'm curious to know more about some of them and why others think so highly of them.  I'm trying to steer away from universal systems (such as GURPS) and concentrate on those that are primarily rooted in being a fantasy game.
> 
> Here's a few I know of to get started.  I own a few of these (those with a "*" beside them), but haven't really gotten to play them much.  If folks could expound what the like from each, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> ...




Bear in mind, OSRIC almost literally is AD&D, being a very strict retro clone of it, and so is LL only for Basic and Expert D&D by Moldvay & Marsh. A few differences, but you'd have to look hard to find them.

Lamentations of the Flame Princess is 95% old school D&D, so is that other Conanesque game you mean (Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea).

The only non D&D based fantasy game I've liked was the original Stormbringer game from Chaosium. It used the BRP rules, so almost really a variant of D&D, but d100% skill based for everything, not just thief skills.


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## Desdichado (Sep 19, 2012)

I think it's a little bit stretching to call most of those non-D&D fantasy games.  Sure, they may not say D&D on the cover, but neither does Pathfinder.  That doesn't mean that they aren't as much D&D as Pathfinder is, particularly games like OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, or Hackmaster, which are all _specifically_ designed as D&D retroclones or parodies using essentially the exact same mechanics.  The same is true (mostly) for Lamentations of the Flame Princes, and Castles & Crusades is meant to be (mechanically) a hyrbid of 1e and 3e.

A few that I didn't see mentioned, that are _actually_ not D&D; the Game of Thrones RPG got a lot of attention a couple of years ago when it came out.  RuneQuest has recently been revised and released in a 6th edition.  Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying has had two new editions in the last few years, and is quite different mechanically from D&D.  And although it's a bit old news now, among the biggest non-D&D fantasy games of the last ten years or so has got to be Exalted.


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## Stormonu (Sep 19, 2012)

Hobo said:


> I think it's a little bit stretching to call most of those non-D&D fantasy games.
> 
> A few that I didn't see mentioned, that are _actually_ not D&D; the Game of Thrones RPG got a lot of attention a couple of years ago when it came out.  RuneQuest has recently been revised and released in a 6th edition.  Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying has had two new editions in the last few years, and is quite different mechanically from D&D.  And although it's a bit old news now, among the biggest non-D&D fantasy games of the last ten years or so has got to be Exalted.




Well, I'm using this thread for scouting out games to buy/play - other than true D&D and Pathfinder, which I'm already familiar with.  Some of the games I noted above I do own, but haven't had a chance to play so I was curious what others thought of them

Of the games you mentioned, I have Warhammer 2 & 3, Runequest (2E) and Exalted (2E).  Have you had a chance to play any of the above games and if so, what was your opinion of them?


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## Bluenose (Sep 19, 2012)

You might be interested in Adventurer Conqueror King System (ACKS), as it's another of the retro-clones like the others on your list. In this case, of BD&D with a heavy emphasis on the transition from adventurer to "ruler/guildmaster". It caps at 14th level; adds a few options to basic, two different elf and dwarf classes; makes higher level spells into rituals; does a few interesting things with clerics; adds more "End-Game" material. I like it more than the other BD&D clones.


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## Desdichado (Sep 19, 2012)

Stormonu said:


> Of the games you mentioned, I have Warhammer 2 & 3, Runequest (2E) and Exalted (2E).  Have you had a chance to play any of the above games and if so, what was your opinion of them?



A bit of Warhammer 2nd and Exalted.  For Warhammer, frankly I like the conceit of the setting itself more than the rules, and I'm not familiar with the 3e rules at all.  But I'm more likely to borrow from the setting rather than use it strictly as is.  Someone once said (maybe Piratecat, although I'm not sure) that WFRP is the game where you start out thinking that you're playing D&D, but realize before too long that you're actually playing Call of Cthulhu.  That conceit appeals to me greatly, but I'm still not in love with the system itself; I'd rather apply that conceit to another system.

For Exaclted, I had a good enough time, but I'm not really that much of a animephile to have really loved the conceit of that setting either, and after years of fooling around with Werewolf: The Apocalypse I've come to rather dislike the Storyteller system (and dice pool systems in general) as well.

I mention them only because they're big names in the "not-DND fantasy" rather than because I love them myself.  Personally, I'd rather heavily houserule 3.5, d20 Modern, or Pathfinder to hammer it into a system variant that supports a similar conceit to that of WFRP.

For what it's worth, in many ways Midnight is already a pretty good system variant on D&D for that goal as well.


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## Neonchameleon (Sep 19, 2012)

Hobo said:


> Someone once said (maybe Piratecat, although I'm not sure) that WFRP is the game where you start out thinking that you're playing D&D, but realize before too long that you're actually playing Call of Cthulhu.




I don't know who said it but that's an _excellent_ description.

Good Non-D&D fantasy games?  Will I get things thrown at me for suggesting 4e?

Good ones missing: 

Dogs in the Vineyard (in what way are Mormon Paladins who sometimes face real demons not fantasy?)
Legends of Anglerre (a.k.a. Spirit of the Century: Fantasy Edition)
Mouse Guard
Reign
Apocalypse World/Dungeon World

Oh, and WFRP 3E Advice: Get the dice.  Get the rulebook (not the boxed set).  Then start cutting it down.


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## Obryn (Sep 19, 2012)

The new-ish Savage Worlds Deluxe corebook has pretty much every element of fantasy gaming baked into it.  So much so that I think the "Fantasy Companion" is unnecessary.

I don't know if you'd consider it a toolkit or not; I think it looks rather playable right out of the box.  Just ignore the bits about cars and guns. 

-O


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## Animal (Sep 19, 2012)

I really loved how Green Ronin's Saga of Ice and Fire RPG played out. A simple and clean system for handling single adventurers and entire households, pitting two duelists and huge armies alike. Intrigue mechanics were also much better than anything i've seen elsewhere.
Not to mention how awesome the setting is (if you loved the books of course).


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## kitsune9 (Sep 19, 2012)

I like:

1. HARP / Rolemaster - maybe crunchy but fun!
2. Runequest I, II, and Legend - really like this system
3. Warhammer 1e and 2e - as another poster said, this is a game where you start out thinking you're playing D&D, but it turns out to be Call of Cthulhu. The other aspect is that every character is absolutely cool. This is about the only game system where I will play any character I randomly roll up. I have Warhammer 3e, but haven't gotten through the rules yet.
4. Castles and Crusades - the only retroclone I like.


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## Corathon (Sep 19, 2012)

Stormonu said:


> There's been a few non-D&D/non-Pathfinder fantasy games that have come out in last few years and I'm the type whose keen to collect them.  So I'm curious to know more about some of them and why others think so highly of them.  I'm trying to steer away from universal systems (such as GURPS) and concentrate on those that are primarily rooted in being a fantasy game.
> 
> Here's a few I know of to get started.  I own a few of these (those with a "*" beside them), but haven't really gotten to play them much.  If folks could expound what the like from each, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> ...




I wouldn't really count OSRIC and Labyrinth Lord as "non-D&D". OSRIC is basically 1E AD&D (my favorite game of all) and Labyrinth Lord is essentially BECMI I think. Likewise, Castles & Crusades is a mixture of AD&D 1E and D&D 3e. I'd call that "D&D" as well. I think that old-style games are great because they feel less "superheroic" and more "heroic" or "pulpy" to me (due to slower advancement, limited numbers of HD, difficulty of creating or buying magic items, etc). I have only limited playing experience with C&C and no direct experience with LL, however.

Hackmaster 4E can be played as a joke or seriously, depending on what the GM/players want. Again, this is basically AD&D 1E with a dash of 2E, but with a number of different systems (e.g. honor) layered on. The 20 HP "kicker" really changes the dynamics of low level play. I don't like that change myself, but those who find beginning PCs too fragile might. I enjoyed playing it, and would play it again, but I'd never run it (looked way too complicated).

I own DCC but have never played it; I would love to play it, give the chance. It is very reminiscent of the stories that originally inspired D&D (which was its creator's goal).

I don't own LotFP, nor have I played it, but I have some adventures written for it. By what I can see, its implied setting is more Renaissance/Enlightenment than Middle Ages, and its going for a "weird fantasy" feel. Looks interesting.

About the other three I have little knowledge, and so can't really offer an opinion.


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## Stacie GmrGrl (Sep 19, 2012)

I am going to list Radiance RPG as another good d20 variant, and it is available for free at Radiance RPG so you can't beat the price.

As for non d20 fantasy I love Legend of the Five Rings 4e, great quality books and the setting of Rokugan is fantastic. A game not focused on material gain but Honor and Intrigue and Status and Glory. A game of Samurai and shugenja and courtly intrigue in a land with powerful spirits that are never really fully understood. I love it.

I will mention Dresden Files for a modern day fantasy, which I think. If run in likeep an ancient Rome or Greek setting would make for one really cool alternate setting.


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## Kealios (Sep 19, 2012)

Check out Arcanis by Paradigm Concepts.

Its a good one, and a beefy, nice book to boot.


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## Desdichado (Sep 19, 2012)

Stacie GmrGrl said:


> I will mention Dresden Files for a modern day fantasy, which I think. If run in likeep an ancient Rome or Greek setting would make for one really cool alternate setting.



Oooh, good call.  I didn't think of that one.

I haven't played it, but I've read it, and it looks pretty cool.  Plus... awesome setting!


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## DM Howard (Sep 20, 2012)

I really enjoy Castles and Crusades.  It's kind of a meeting of minds between 2nd edition and 3rd edition.  It has a very easy to use Siege Engine which allows for ease of assigning challenge targets and has a very "the GM rules" attitude which I enjoy.  Not to say that the game says he/she is the final arbiter, but that the GM should work with the players to create a great game experience.  The system is very easy to add to and subtract from and has many different optional rules variants in different books to take inspiration from.


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## Ravenheart87 (Sep 20, 2012)

The new HackMaster. A bit complex, but character creation is deep, combat is intense and quite realistic, the writing is good, the books look awesome. Not running it at the moment, but once the GMG is out, I'm going to start one in Frandor's Keep.

Dungeon Crawl Classics is cool too, it's like Basic D&D on d20 base with lots of gonzo elements. I love the 0-level funnel, the crazy magic rules, the brutal criticals, the random charts and (again) the writing: lots of good advice about running the game and making it your own by Goodman.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 20, 2012)

You might want to check this out: http://www.darkcitygames.com/display.php?series=law&id=19

From what I understand, this is to The Fantasy Trip: In the Labyrinth what Hackmaster is to AD&D.


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## Wombat (Sep 20, 2012)

I personally love _Ars Magica_ for non-D&D fantasy.  I know some people see it more as historical, but I find it easily adapts to a "pure" fantasy setting as well, such as resetting it in Harn.


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## BronzeDragon (Sep 20, 2012)

I'll take this to mean non-D20, otherwise Conan D20 would be right up there in the list.

Here is my list, in order of Awesome as All Hell (#1 ) to Still Freaking Awesome, But Not as Much as the Other Ones (#4 ):

#1  Warhammer FRP - Gritty, evocative, sometimes downright scary, with deadly mechanics that make you feel sorry for your character in much the same way Call of Cthulhu does.

The background world is just amazing...in a nutshell, WAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHH!!!

#2  Earthdawn - Another one that can be scary, due to the Horrors being, well, horrific. But here you truly have a mix between CoC and D&D. Super tough monsters (not just horrors) and environment meet truly capable characters, and the combination is enough to excite even the dullest person.

The world of Earthdawn also has an incredible backstory and it actually allows you to set the game in very, VERY different situations. I particularly enjoy putting my group in the position of being some of the first to leave the Kaers. The wonders of Rediscovery abound.

#3  Runequest - Rules that make sense (it's based on BRP, just like CoC) and are super easy to handle. Several options of campaign settings to choose from (Glorantha, Hawkmoon, Elric, Lankhmar, Slaine) that can get you vastly different ways to enjoy the game.

Also, it's got an incredible number of supplements detailing Glorantha, and even a bunch for the other settings as well, and they can be had really cheap on Ebay, something which does NOT hold true for the other two options.

#4  Ars Magica - The most creative game sessions I've ever seen were likely Ars Magica ones. The freedom of the magical system, together with the obviously appealing setting of Magical Europe (everything present in history, with the added caveat that all magical tales/superstitions/etc are TRUE) make this a true gem.

The game is as political as it can get, and RPing is vastly more important than stats on a sheet of paper.


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## Lwaxy (Sep 21, 2012)

Talislanta. It's so different. 

And no elves


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## IronWolf (Sep 21, 2012)

I have been a big fan of DCC RPG recently. The funky dice it brings to the table, the randomness while seeming a little crazy at first plays really well. It sort of brings a freshness to the table in my opinion when some random effect makes your character roll with it and adapt. I also really like the Might Deed at Arms mechanic for warriors and dwarves. Really opens up some options for creative play for the players. 

We've been having a great time playing the game.

I recently picked up the most recent Castle and Crusades PHB. I am planning on taking another look at it as well.


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## Water Bob (Sep 21, 2012)

I think the Conan RPG (2E) is an amazing game.  I'm a huge fan of the Conan stories, and I think the authors of this d20 version did a spectacular job of capturing the gritty, swords & sorcery feel of the Hyborian Age.  Fantastic book.  Many agree that it's one of the best versions of d20 to ever see the light of day.

What else do I like about it?

Combat.  It's a warrior centric game.  There's a ton of options (and the options aren't all generalized as they are in Pathfinder) for combat, including a lot of combat maneuvers.  The Con here is that all these options take time to learn and master.  So, it's not a game to pick up and learn in a night.  I always suggest learning the game slowly, starting with the vanilla d20 parts and adding on other rule sections as you become familiar with the game.

Multi-Classing.  It's so easy to multi-class in this game that it's almost a classless game.  True, interesting, unique characters can be constructed using this sytem.

Armor.  It absorbs damage instead of making the character harder to hit!

There's a ton of other things I like about it.  You can see my various posts about it here on enworld (usually in the Legacy forum).

Of late, I've been writing down random thoughts for a Conan GM.  You might want to take a look at that thread.  You'll find alot about my opinions on the game there.


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## innerdude (Sep 24, 2012)

The One Ring. 

Does it really need an explanation of why it's awesome?


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## Bluenose (Sep 24, 2012)

innerdude said:


> The One Ring.
> 
> Does it really need an explanation of why it's awesome?




Actually, yes. At least for some people it might be interesting to say something about the system, and why it works so well for a Middle Earth game, but might not be so good for a different sort of fantasy. It's certainly _my _best Tolkein game, but I'm sure there are people who'd be horrified by the mechanics and who'd like to know that before trying it.


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## griffonwing (Sep 25, 2012)

The new Hackmaster also has a new FREE updated Basic pdf so you can check out the games combat and skill/magic system before you opt to put down 60 bucks per book.

However, the money is totally worth the investment for the game/media that you receive.


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## yojimbouk (Sep 25, 2012)

Stormonu said:


> There's been a few non-D&D/non-Pathfinder fantasy games that have come out in last few years and I'm the type whose keen to collect them.  So I'm curious to know more about some of them and why others think so highly of them.  I'm trying to steer away from universal systems (such as GURPS) and concentrate on those that are primarily rooted in being a fantasy game.
> 
> Here's a few I know of to get started.  I own a few of these (those with a "*" beside them), but haven't really gotten to play them much.  If folks could expound what the like from each, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> ...




D&D Retroclones:
OSRIC, a retroclone of AD&D1e.

Labyrinth Lord, a retronclone of B/X D&D.

Swords and Wizardry, a retroclone of original (0e) D&D. There is a swords and sorcery variant, Crypts and Things, which is supposed to be quite good.

Dark Dungeons, a retroclone of rules compendium BXCMI D&D (with some houserules).

d20 games:
Conan RPG. The Mongoose Conan RPG is out of print and now harder to find. Supposed to be an excellent treatment of the source material and a reasonable take on a d20 swords and sorcery game. The Hyperborea game is a old school style swords and sorcery game based on early edition D&D (0e).

Arcana Evolved. Monte Cook's revision of 3e. Reworks the spellcasting mechanics but also makes spellcasters even more awesome.

FantasyCraft. Excellent variant of Spycraft 2.0 for fantasy. Quite crunchy, the rulebook is quite dense but it manages to fix a number of problems with 3e.

Games similar to D&D:
Castles & Crusades is a d20-ised AD&D. The system has the attribute modifiers and DCs of d20 but different experience point tables for classes a la AD&D. The skill roll mechanic, the SIEGE engine, has been pinched for skills rolls in D&D Next.

13th Age. A 3e/4e hybrid with some storygame mechanics thrown in as well. Looks good from the previews.

Hackmaster. 4e was a houseruled AD&D1e written up as a parody of AD&D. 5e has the same system as Kenzer's Aces and Eights wild west game. It's a crunchy system but good. The 5e Hacklopedia of Beasts is supposed to be a thing of beauty.

Dungeon Crawl Classics. Think Basic D&D with a bigger dose of swords and sorcery. The spell system is excellent. Spellcasting involves a skill role wirh a chance of mishap and corruption as the result of a badly failed roll as well as extraordinary result for a good roll. Also, incredibly cheap for a 500 page hardback. Goodman seems to be the Milo Minderbinder of RPGs.

Lamentation of the Flame Princess. A 0e derived weird fantasy game.

Non-D&D Fantasy:
Dragon Age: based on the video game. Has a simple and elegant rules system, AGE. It seems to be quite popular although releases have been thin on the ground. Kobold Quarterly regularly support the AGE system.

Exalted: a game of magical Kung Fu demigods. The Exalted setting, Creation, is equal parts Greek and Chinese/Japanese myth. The setting is excellent. However, the system is regarded as problematic. However, it's one of the few crunchy games to feature characters of this level of power.

HARP Fantasy. Based on the classic Rolemaster system but with some refinements for speed.

Rolemaster Classic. A remastered version of Rolemaster 2e.

Iron Kingdoms 2e. The setting is well liked. Can't say anything about the system, though.

Earthdawn. Excellent game that takes the conceits of D&D (dungeon bashing, classes, levels) and provides an in world rationale for them.

Magic World. A generic non-Moorcock version of the great Elric!/Stormbringer 5e d100 system.

Legend. Mongoose's d100 fantasy system (exactly the same sytem as their RuneQuest II). Can get the pdf for 1$. Has a gritty but exciting combat system.

RuneQuest 6e. A refinement and expansion of RQII/Legend (very similar). Probably the best version of RuneQuest produced. The book is Pathfinder-like in its size and completeness.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e. This one has a lot of nostalgia for me as WFRP1e was one of my favourite games when I was a lad. The system is d100 roll under. Some highlights are the brutal critical hits, the career system, the prosaic character types (rat catcher and labourer) and the risky spellcasting system. The primary setting is a late medieval/early Renaissance fantasy analogue of the Holy Roman Empire (medieval Germany).

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3e. A completely different system from 1e/2e. However, it is supposed to be very good. As a warning this game is heavily dependent on components with rules appearing on power cards and cardboard tokens. I'm guessing that this makes play a lot easier as it avoids continually referencing the rulebook but does require quite a bit of space at the table.

Legend of the Five Rings 4e. A fantasy game inspired by medieval Japanese and Chinese legend and history but with as much relation to it as D&D has to medieval Europe. A well developed Asian fantasy setting that is easy to get into.

The One Ring is regarded as a great RPG for Middle Earth. Again, I can't offer an opinion.

Ars Magica. Excellent freeform spellcasting system (based on combining a verb and a noun to produce an effect).

For modern urban fantasy you have Dresden Files and the new World of Darkness systems.


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## Balesir (Sep 25, 2012)

I'll echo Ars Magica - brilliant setting and concept, rules work OK for it.

HârnMaster is my love for sim games - it's the one system I know that departs from hit points _entirely_.

Burning Wheel looks very nice, but I haven't go to play or run anything above a one-shot with it so far.

Bushido, if you can find a copy, is very fine for fantasy Japan - and Pendragon does a similar job in a very different way for Arthurian tales.

RuneQuest - especially set in Glorantha - is excellent. I once did a "fantasy earth" campaign for it, creating middle-eastern backgrounds and doing a sort-of "gritty Arabian Nights" feel. It worked really well - all the way from gritty origins to gonzo finale (confrontation with a mighty demon, Abd al Sitahn in a bizarre split world based on an Esher painting). Easy system to mod and play with.

Finally, it's old and hard to find, but DragonQuest is a fine system, way ahead of its time.


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## Stormonu (Sep 25, 2012)

Balesir said:


> Bushido, if you can find a copy, is very fine for fantasy Japan - and Pendragon does a similar job in a very different way for Arthurian tales.




A somewhat comical antecdote:  Back in the early 90's we tried Pendragon.  It had a great character creation system.  Unfortunately, I tried to run it in the same vein O ran my D&D game, with a heavy emphasis on combat.  After my brother's beautifully detailed character first falied "the leap" and then died horribly when the party was beset by picts, he declared "I will never. play. this. game. again." - he hasn't and laughs about it now, but we use this epitaph whenever we find a game we just absolutely abhor - not because of mechanics, but because of how poorly someone runs the demo.


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## rogueattorney (Sep 25, 2012)

My tastes run to the rules-lite and slightly goofy. Two of my favorites that haven't been mentioned yet:

Tunnels & Trolls was probably the first non-D&D fantasy rpg to hit the shelves. It's now in its 7th (?) edition, although I believe the classic "5.5" edition is still being printed, too. It doesn't really matter as it's all pretty much the same. 

It has a cool strength-weapon use system, really basic, simple combat, and a great universal task resolution system. Some of the materials are pretty tongue in cheek and it's definitely veered towards beer-n-pretzels type games. 

Kind of similar in spirit is Encounter Critical and gonzo mish-mash of a game that came out about 7 or 8 years ago. It's presented as a faux-lost game from the '70s, complete with typos and sub-Arduin production values. It throws every 70s sci-fi/fantasy touchstone (Star Wars, Star Trek, Tolkien, Godzilla, etc.) into a big heap in about 30 pages. But buried in the silliness, is actually a really cool little game with some interesting concepts. I especially like the fact that the player has to contribute something creatively to the campaign world in order to advance each level. It also has one of my favorite hand-drawn campaign maps. It's free. Google it and download.


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## steenan (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm not sure if anybody mentioned them here already, so I'd add two more games to the list.

*Mouse Guard* is non-magical fantasy where PCs are mice. It may seem funny at first and intended for children only, but it is not; the setting that makes nearly everything you encounter bigger and more dangerous than you helps focus play on heroism (in the sense of "doing what you feel is right no matter the danger") and wilderness survival. It uses simplified Burning Wheel system.

*Nobilis* gives each character control of an aspect of reality (like "wrath" or "dreams" or "butterflies") and pits them against Excrucians, alien beings that want our reality destroyed. The system is diceless, bid-based; gameplay often becomes very philosophical. I love this game for describing extremely powerful and flexible characters with a simple system that works well.


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## NotZenon (Sep 30, 2012)

Stacie GmrGrl said:


> I am going to list Radiance RPG as another good d20 variant, and it is available for free at Radiance RPG so you can't beat the price.
> 
> As for non d20 fantasy I love Legend of the Five Rings 4e, great quality books and the setting of Rokugan is fantastic. A game not focused on material gain but Honor and Intrigue and Status and Glory. A game of Samurai and shugenja and courtly intrigue in a land with powerful spirits that are never really fully understood. I love it.
> 
> I will mention Dresden Files for a modern day fantasy, which I think. If run in likeep an ancient Rome or Greek setting would make for one really cool alternate setting.




thanks for that link, what a great reference and resource for free no less!!


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