# An Elf By Any Other Name . . .



## Levistus's_Leviathan (Nov 2, 2021)

Our Elves Are Different is a very common trope in the fantasy genre, but I've lately become more aware of a subtrope of it; the need for nearly every fantasy writer that builds a world that contains elves in it to make their own fantasy name for them. There's a ton of them. Here are just a few examples that I can think of off of the top of my head:

Eldar from Warhammer 40k
Tel'Quessir from the Forgotten Realms
Alfar from Norse Mythology
Mer from The Elder Scrolls
Quendi from The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit (feel free to correct me if I got this wrong, any of you Tolkien-enthusiasts)
All of the names for the elven races in Dragonlance end with "esti" (similar to "mer" from The Elder Scrolls)
Älfa in the Inheritance Cycle (very similar to the Norse Alfar)
Possibly Vulcans from Star Trek, but they might not count.
Fair Folk in Fablehaven
(If anyone has any other examples, please list them in the comments below, and I might edit this post to compile them all together.)

And this leads me to ask *why*? Why are there so many different names for elves in the fantasy (and sci-fi) genre? Why do people feel the need to make yet another name for the elven race? I have also noticed that this applies to dwarves, giants, and other fantasy races to some extent, but none of them have it to the same extent as Elves. Any thoughts?


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## Zardnaar (Nov 2, 2021)

Simple reason. Look at me I'm so original!!


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## Snarf Zagyg (Nov 2, 2021)

Like all viruses, elves mutate.

Drow were just the Delta variant.


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## Tonguez (Nov 2, 2021)

I Actually think theres some deeper psychology going on than just “Eeew we’re different” and it goes back to the ubiquity of Elf/Fairy across human cultures and for thousands of years of storytelling.

Elfs are Fae and Fae are the Idealised Other in Human Psychology, they look human but represent the ideal best form of the ego thats just beyond mortal reach. (Equally dockalfar and svartalfar represent the less desirable traits).

I think Humans cant help but to have fantasies about the idealised other, its hardwired into human psychology and so every fantasy story from Nuadas battle with the Fir Bolg King to Shakespears Midsummer Night Dream and right up to My Spock of Vulcan is going to have some variation of Elf in it.

Of course people want to make sure they dont look derivative and so will think up alternate names or make them sentient vegetables, but in the end they pretty much always fit the same psychological profile of idealised ego


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## Paul Farquhar (Nov 2, 2021)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Alfar from Norse Mythology



Not sure the chronology works on this one...


AcererakTriple6 said:


> Possibly Vulcans from Star Trek, but they might not count.



Space elves are their own subtrope. Babylon 5's Mimbari also go here. But JMS never denied he was doing Tolkien in space.

GRRM, Tad Williams, Raymond Feist, Julian May are all fantasy authors I have read with alternatively named elves.

Terry Pratchett's take on elves interprets them differently, rather than filing the numbers off.


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## Leatherhead (Nov 2, 2021)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> And this leads me to ask *why*? Why are there so many different names for elves in the fantasy (and sci-fi) genre? Why do people feel the need to make yet another name for the elven race? I have also noticed that this applies to dwarves, giants, and other fantasy races to some extent, but none of them have it to the same extent as Elves. Any thoughts?




Mostly for the Trademarks.


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## Ryujin (Nov 2, 2021)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Our Elves Are Different is a very common trope in the fantasy genre, but I've lately become more aware of a subtrope of it; the need for nearly every fantasy writer that builds a world that contains elves in it to make their own fantasy name for them. There's a ton of them. Here are just a few examples that I can think of off of the top of my head:
> 
> Eldar from Warhammer 40k
> Tel'Quessir from the Forgotten Realms
> ...



Lord of the Rings uses Quendi, Teleri, Vanyar, Sindar, Nandor, Noldor, Eldar.... lots of names for the Elves, depending on where they were, and what they did.

"The Fair Folk" is a term frequently used in Celtic mythology for Elves, so just subsumed by some writers.


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## aco175 (Nov 2, 2021)

Would some of it come from the point that people- humans write the story or the game rules.  We certainly like to categized all the types of humans.  We do it to others and to ourselves.  We don't walk around calling ourselves a human, but we are black, white, brown etc...  Also, we may call ourselves American or Texan, or such.  Not sure if it would be different if elves and dwarves lived on Earth.  

Another thought is that it is a way to have more races and not have turtles, insects, crystals and chipmunks be player races.  You can separate them into more defined cultures and have them fir a role or story.  

There is also the drow elf, I cannot remember their Forgotten Realms name though.


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## Morrus (Nov 2, 2021)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Our Elves Are Different is a very common trope in the fantasy genre, but I've lately become more aware of a subtrope of it; the need for nearly every fantasy writer that builds a world that contains elves in it to make their own fantasy name for them. There's a ton of them. Here are just a few examples that I can think of off of the top of my head:
> 
> Eldar from Warhammer 40k
> Tel'Quessir from the Forgotten Realms
> ...



You think Vulcans should have been called Elves?


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## Snarf Zagyg (Nov 2, 2021)

aco175 said:


> We don't walk around calling ourselves a human,




That's right. I don't do that. But I do walk around calling the rest of you humans. 

"Puny humans."
-Snarf 'Dread Overlord from Taphao Kaew" Zagyg


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## MarkB (Nov 2, 2021)

it's probably a bit of Call A Rabbit a "Smeerp" with writers wanting to differentiate their elves from others, plus some instances of wanting to differentiate individual subraces within their fiction.

In Elder Scrolls, for instance, the "-mer" races include not just multiple varieties of Elf, but also Orcs (Orsimer) and Dwarves (Dwemer).


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## Marc_C (Nov 2, 2021)

Leatherhead said:


> Mostly for the Trademarks.



This. Elves are no longer called elves in Warhammer Fantasy Battle. They are named Sylvaneth. For IP reasons.


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## Ath-kethin (Nov 2, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Simple reason. Look at me I'm so original!!



Especially those silly Norse poseurs with their "alfar."

I mean really, who do they think they're fooling?


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## Mallus (Nov 2, 2021)

My favorite off-brand elves are from Mike Moorcock: Melnibonéans, the Vadhagh folk, the Eldren (technically I think they're all the same species). 

Also, why so many sea gods (Neptune, Poseidon, Triton, etc., etc. etc.)? Pick one and be done with it, I say!


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## Ralif Redhammer (Nov 2, 2021)

I'd also add the Light and Dark Elves of The Spire and the various elves of Elfquest to the list of distinct elvish tropes.

As for why so many elvish varietals, I think it goes back to Tolkien. Having just read the Nature of Middle-Earth, it's clear that elves were for him, a huge key to his design and understanding of Middle-Earth. While the elves are just one part of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, when you read the Silmarillion, an enormous amount of the foundational worldbuilding is experienced through elvish eyes.

Elves are frequently the most magical of the various fantasy races, and when designing a magical world, that ties them all the more strongly to it. If you want to present your fantasy world as different, one way to convey that is with different elves.


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## Tonguez (Nov 2, 2021)

Ath-kethin said:


> Especially those silly Norse poseurs with their "alfar."
> 
> I mean really, who do they think they're fooling?



Yeah I can see why the Norse were always coming down hard on the Anglosaxons - did that Northumbrian lot really think ælf was going to cut it? and as for Ylfe, come on Wessex thou can doest better!


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## Levistus's_Leviathan (Nov 2, 2021)

Morrus said:


> You think Vulcans should have been called Elves?



Not exactly. I was just pointing out them as an example of "basically elves" that are not called elves.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan (Nov 2, 2021)

Mallus said:


> Also, why so many sea gods (Neptune, Poseidon, Triton, etc., etc. etc.)



Neptune and Poseidon are the same god, just the Roman and Greek versions of him respectively. Triton is their son. However, there are quite a few redundant Greco-Roman water gods/titans, like Oceanus, Pontus, Phorcys, and all of the river gods, and so on.


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## Ryujin (Nov 2, 2021)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Not exactly. I was just pointing out them as an example of "basically elves" that are not called elves.



Not exactly the flighty and chaotic elves of fiction. It's like all of the "Grim Quester" Elves got on a Spelljammer and headed for the stars.


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Nov 2, 2021)

Morrus said:


> You think Vulcans should have been called Elves?




Would that make the Romulans the Dark Elves?


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## Zardnaar (Nov 3, 2021)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Would that make the Romulans the Dark Elves?




 More or less. 

 Also see Warhammer 40k. Or Melinboneans.


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## GMMichael (Nov 4, 2021)

Pretty obvious to me - no one wants their elves confused with the cookie-making or Santa-helping folk.


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## Jmarso (Nov 4, 2021)

Let's not forget the Dalish of DragonAge.

I'm not sure anyone should ping on Tolkien here- I'm not sure elves would exist in most fantasy milieus without him setting the bar.


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## Paul Farquhar (Nov 4, 2021)

GMMichael said:


> Pretty obvious to me - no one wants their elves confused with the cookie-making or Santa-helping folk.



Who are actually gnomes who lied on their birth certificates.


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## Ralif Redhammer (Nov 4, 2021)

I think we would've seen elves more in line with folklore/faerytale depictions, like Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter and the Eddas. They'd be more magical and strange, probably a whole lot shorter.



Jmarso said:


> I'm not sure anyone should ping on Tolkien here- I'm not sure elves would exist in most fantasy milieus without him setting the bar.




Early in their development, what would become the Noldor were referred to as gnomes by Tolkien, so it's not entirely outrageous...



Paul Farquhar said:


> Who are actually gnomes who lied on their birth certificates.


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## MoonSong (Nov 4, 2021)

As someone guilty of this, let me explain myself. First of all, I wasn't out to replicate elves by another name. Don't get me wrong, I love elves. They are my favorite race in D&D, a close second/third in Magic and my favorite Yugioh card was an Elf, but I digress. I set out to make a setting that was human-centric with only variations of the idea of a human. I also set out to avoid using standard fantasy races -though angels/demons and living vampires made the cut-. One of these involved a fey-like trickster race that started as a mix of foxes as tricksters, cat people, and worldwide lycantropes and animal like shapeshifter myths and legends. The result was a gracile and lean race of people with pointy ears, magical inclination and a connection with the mystical and nature. At that point I had a very elf-like race so I admitted defeat and just went with "ok, they are elves by another name". but hey, at least I have some unique traits like them having a limited shapeshifting ability and a hand claw/talon attack they do with their fingernails...


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## Greg K (Nov 4, 2021)

Are the Blackbloods in The Outpost, essentially, a type of elf?


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## Tonguez (Nov 4, 2021)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> I think we would've seen elves more in line with folklore/faerytale depictions, like Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter and the Eddas. They'd be more magical and strange, probably a whole lot shorter.




Not necessarily shorter - theres still the the Arthurian Romances as a source of figures Like the Lady of the Lake and Queen Mab (even Morgana in some tellings), Shakespeares Titania, Oberon, Puck and of course the Tuatha DeDanann


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## Ralif Redhammer (Nov 4, 2021)

That's true, the term "elf" was used very differently in ancient tales, sometimes interchangeably with "faery."



Tonguez said:


> Not necessarily shorter - theres still the the Arthurian Romances as a source of figures Like the Lady of the Lake and Queen Mab (even Morgana in some tellings), Shakespeares Titania, Oberon, Puck and of course the Tuatha DeDanann


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Nov 4, 2021)

elfin | Etymology, origin and meaning of elfin by etymonline
					

ELFIN Meaning: "of or pertaining to elves," 1590s, from elf; first found in Spenser, who also used it as a noun and… See origin and meaning of elfin.




					www.etymonline.com
				




Interesting that Elf is the masculine and Elfen is the feminine and probably where the word elfin came from for describing the fine and petite features of smaller women.


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## Paul Farquhar (Nov 8, 2021)

Tonguez said:


> Not necessarily shorter - theres still the the Arthurian Romances as a source of figures Like the Lady of the Lake and Queen Mab (even Morgana in some tellings), Shakespeares Titania, Oberon, Puck and of course the Tuatha DeDanann



"The little people" and "the wee folk" are long standing Irish and Scottish descriptors for fae.

Shakespeare doesn't specify how big his fairies are, but they have often been portrayed by children, with the exception of the king and queen.

Then, lets not forget, size discrepancy is am major plot point in the movie _Elf_.


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## Thunderfoot (Nov 17, 2021)

When I ran my 3/3.5 campaign everyone believed elves were just like they were in the book, the grand old race that had always been...
Until they found a hidden city state that had been separated by a magic protection spell to seal of an ancient dragon.. (oops) and some old religious text soon had an Elven civil war because...ta-da;  They were transformed humans due to a gods boon.   Yeah, I am a rat bastard DM.


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## Mannahnin (Nov 22, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> "The little people" and "the wee folk" are long standing Irish and Scottish descriptors for fae.
> 
> Shakespeare doesn't specify how big his fairies are, but they have often been portrayed by children, with the exception of the king and queen.



"long standing" being a few hundred years.  The ones we see in ancient Irish and Norse lore are almost all human size.  

There's a gradual shrinking in early modern to modern folklore (reaching its apex in the Victorian period carrying over to Disney in the 20th century with Tinkerbell, though Flora, Fauna and Merryweather from Sleeping Beauty can shrink and grow to human size, like Shakespeare's fairies)) to seemingly disempower them or give a folk etymological explanation for why the Fair Folk/Good Neighbors/Gentry/People of the Hills can live in fairy mounds.


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## Ryujin (Nov 22, 2021)

Mannahnin said:


> "long standing" being a few hundred years.  The ones we see in ancient Irish and Norse lore are almost all human size.
> 
> There's a gradual shrinking in early modern to modern folklore (reaching its apex in the Victorian period carrying over to Disney in the 20th century with Tinkerbell, though Flora, Fauna and Merryweather from Sleeping Beauty can shrink and grow to human size, like Shakespeare's fairies)) to seemingly disempower them or give a folk etymological explanation for why the Fair Folk/Good Neighbors/Gentry/People of the Hills can live in fairy mounds.



Of even of exceptional height and beauty, as with those Fae Folk who would lure you 'under the hill' for a century or two, before booting you out on your lonesome.


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## Mannahnin (Nov 22, 2021)

Or just not returning you.


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## Ryujin (Nov 22, 2021)

Mannahnin said:


> Or just not returning you.



Here's a bit of a modern take on the idea:









						Strowlers S1 E2 Pepper Jones | Watch for Free on The Fantasy Network
					

Pepper Jones, secret agent, returns to Ireland after sixty years to complete her mission and stop an invasion from threatening the modern world.




					watch.thefantasy.network


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## Mercurius (Nov 22, 2021)

The Tiste of Malazan are basically elves.

And then we have Talislanta, which I love, but has always advertised itself as having "No Elves," but has some elf-like races (e.g. the Cymrilians, Ariane, etc). But Talislanta is the ultimate "racial zoo," so not sure that is avoidable.

I think the Irish Tuatha de Danaan are probably the original inspiration for Tolkienian elves. They are a quasi-godlike race of beings from a fairer time who were pushed out by the Milesians (later men). The myths generally speak of the Tuatha entering the "fairy mounds" (sidhe) and some believe they became the Sidhe, which are a more direct correlation to elves.

So I think there's an archetype at play: a race of beings from an elder age, that were fairer, more noble - perhaps less "fallen" from the Golden Age. Of course the Tuatha are part of a lineage of humans, with many races arriving in Ireland over time: first the Nemedians, who fled the oncoming Great Flood, then the Partholons, who were descendants of Noah, etc. So we have a mixture of Christian and pagan myth. Some have also argued that the Tuatha--who supposedly came from the north--were from the lost land of Hyperborea, or possibly Atlantis.

Anyhow, my point being that there are the surface elements to compare to--like pointy ears (which there's some debate whether Tolkien's elves had pointy ears, sort of like the Balrog's wings), fair skin, etc--and then there's the archetype, of a supernatural race.


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## Hriston (Nov 22, 2021)

Mercurius said:


> The Tiste of Malazan are basically elves.
> 
> And then we have Talislanta, which I love, but has always advertised itself as having "No Elves," but has some elf-like races (e.g. the Cymrilians, Ariane, etc). But Talislanta is the ultimate "racial zoo," so not sure that is avoidable.
> 
> ...



Cf. Hesiod’s Five Ages of Man and the biblical Nephilim.


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## Mercurius (Nov 22, 2021)

Hriston said:


> Cf. Hesiod’s Five Ages of Man and the biblical Nephilim.



Yes, exactly. Most mythologies have some kind of "golden age" and previous races, beings and ages, as well as seeing history as cyclic (we can add in the Indian yugas, which may be the source of Hesiod's view).


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## Thunderfoot (Nov 24, 2021)

I've always wondered why Dwarves, being a mining race, would have axes?  But then you realize that they were a Germanic myth and Germania was mostly forest.   In 'reality' they would use picks amd hammers.  So yeah, what you know.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan (Nov 24, 2021)

Thunderfoot said:


> I've always wondered why Dwarves, being a mining race, would have axes?  But then you realize that they were a Germanic myth and Germania was mostly forest.   In 'reality' they would use picks amd hammers.  So yeah, what you know.



Yeah, I always give them picks and hammers. Axes are for my world's Orcs (as well as spears).


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## darjr (Nov 24, 2021)

I now want to run a game where the “elves” are actually human who have discovered immortality but are keeping it a secret. For thousands of years they’ve kept their little gem from ship sinking lips. But now the adventurers are either going to be mired in a plot about it and in a position to find out or they have and are now just trying to stay alive.


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## UngainlyTitan (Nov 24, 2021)

The Tuatha De Danann were almost certainly the Old Gods of Ireland written down by the monks, who did not want the old tales completely lost but were not willing to write down anything that related directly to the Old religion. 
OSP does a pretty good take on it.


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## darjr (Nov 24, 2021)

I didn’t know that! Cool! I love secret things like that coming at us from weird angles.


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## Ryujin (Nov 24, 2021)

ardoughter said:


> The Tuatha De Danann were almost certainly the Old Gods of Ireland written down by the monks, who did not want the old tales completely lost but were not willing to write down anything that related directly to the Old religion.
> OSP does a pretty good take on it.



That video reminded me that a friend is doing a podcast on the mythological origins of what is currently known as the Devil, called "The Devil You Don't Know." Similar delve into how other mythologies have coloured our impression of the character along with little additions like "The Satanic Panic", for RPG player cred.


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## Tonguez (Nov 24, 2021)

Thunderfoot said:


> I've always wondered why Dwarves, being a mining race, would have axes?  But then you realize that they were a Germanic myth and Germania was mostly forest.   In 'reality' they would use picks amd hammers.  So yeah, what you know.



Wood is needed for the beams that support the mine tunnels and for general warmth. Dwarves still need axes so perhaps them give Axes prestige whereas Hammers are just tools.


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## Ryujin (Nov 24, 2021)

Tonguez said:


> Wood is needed for the beams that support the mine tunnels and for general warmth. Dwarves still need axes so perhaps them give Axes prestige whereas Hammers are just tools.



I'd like to see just how long someone could cut wood with a battleaxe. Hint: Not long.


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## Tonguez (Nov 24, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> I'd like to see just how long someone could cut wood with a battleaxe. Hint: Not long.



Yeah not all axes are Battle axes and thats rather the point - Wood axes and sledge hammers are just tools, not weapons, so there is no reason why  Dwarves couldnt decide that Battle Axes were the favoured ceremonial weapon rather than War Hammers


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## Tyler Do'Urden (Nov 25, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> GRRM, Tad Williams, Raymond Feist, Julian May are all fantasy authors I have read with alternatively named elves.
> 
> Terry Pratchett's take on elves interprets them differently, rather than filing the numbers off.




I've always liked the way Robert Jordan subverted the trope:

"Huh... what if elves and ogres were memories of the same creature?"


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## Kaodi (Nov 25, 2021)

I think Tolkien set the mold of elves using subdivisions from their own languages so other elves also tend to have other names that they call themselves. Like in The Elder Scrolls "elf" and "mer" are both used. The high elves/altmer, wood elves/bosmer, dark elves/dunmer (and before that chimer), snow elves/falmer. Heartland high elves though are ayleids, dwarves are dwemer, and orcs and orsimer.

Anyway I think dwarves like axes because they are a cutting weapon that have similar weighting and swing motion to hammers. Though given that they spend a lot of time in tight corridors and crevices you think maybe they should have gone for piercing weapons like shortswords and spears...


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## Paul Farquhar (Nov 25, 2021)

Tyler Do'Urden said:


> I've always liked the way Robert Jordan subverted the trope:
> 
> "Huh... what if elves and ogres were memories of the same creature?"



I think that has a real world analogue: what if elves and ogres are memories of when humans lived along side Neanderthals?


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## Levistus's_Leviathan (Nov 25, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> I think that has a real world analogue: what if elves and ogres are memories of when humans lived along side Neanderthals?



Cool theory, but because Neanderthals went extinct around 40,000 years ago, and oral tradition typically doesn't last that long. It is technically possible, but there's not really way that we could figure out if it's accurate. (I do like the idea that myths about dragons were inspired by dinosaur bones that people found, though.)


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## Paul Farquhar (Nov 25, 2021)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Cool theory, but because Neanderthals went extinct around 40,000 years ago, and oral tradition typically doesn't last that long. It is technically possible, but there's not really way that we could figure out if it's accurate. (I do like the idea that myths about dragons were inspired by dinosaur bones that people found, though.)



There is some evidence that a small number of Neanderthals (and a couple of other near-humans) may have lingered rather longer. And all you need to survive is a memory of a memory, not an actual story.


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## TheSword (Nov 25, 2021)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Our Elves Are Different is a very common trope in the fantasy genre, but I've lately become more aware of a subtrope of it; the need for nearly every fantasy writer that builds a world that contains elves in it to make their own fantasy name for them. There's a ton of them. Here are just a few examples that I can think of off of the top of my head:
> 
> Eldar from Warhammer 40k
> Tel'Quessir from the Forgotten Realms
> ...



Are you sure you’re not over complicating it? Most of those either mean elf in various languages (elf, alfar, alfa), or are just that language’s translation for people, person or an adjective attached to such. (Tel’Quessir, Eldar, Quendi, fair folk, mer).

The question isn’t so much why there are so many different names for elves, but rather why are there so many different languages in fantasy fiction. I would have thought that was obvious,.. it’s a part of world building.


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## Thunderfoot (Nov 27, 2021)

darjr said:


> I now want to run a game where the “elves” are actually human who have discovered immortality but are keeping it a secret. For thousands of years they’ve kept their little gem from ship sinking lips. But now the adventurers are either going to be mired in a plot about it and in a position to find out or they have and are now just trying to stay alive.



Glad I could help.


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## Thunderfoot (Nov 27, 2021)

Tonguez said:


> Wood is needed for the beams that support the mine tunnels and for general warmth. Dwarves still need axes so perhaps them give Axes prestige whereas Hammers are just tools.



Well that'ss true, but if you study the progression of weapons of war, with the exception of the firearm (which went the other way) most weapons of war start as tools or farming implements that are altered by the population so there is a sense of 'familiarity' to ease the training of militias.


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## MoonSong (Nov 28, 2021)

Thunderfoot said:


> Well that'ss true, but if you study the progression of weapons of war, with the exception of the firearm (which went the other way) most weapons of war start as tools or farming implements that are altered by the population so there is a sense of 'familiarity' to ease the training of militias.



Not so sure. I meant, the spear, bow&arrow, axe and hammer kind of predate farming? 

Though I'm reminded of the Corvo, the official knife of the Chilean army. It is essentially a kind of sickle that they adopted during their war with Bolivia with deadly effect.


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## Thunderfoot (Dec 14, 2021)

MoonSong said:


> Not so sure. I meant, the spear, bow&arrow, axe and hammer kind of predate farming?
> 
> Though I'm reminded of the Corvo, the official knife of the Chilean army. It is essentially a kind of sickle that they adopted during their war with Bolivia with deadly effect.



The spear, bow & arrow, hammer and axe were tools first.  Notice I said tools and OR farming implements.  They were used as war weapons after they were developed for other uses, hunting for the first two, construction for the later two.


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## MoonSong (Dec 15, 2021)

Thunderfoot said:


> The spear, bow & arrow, hammer and axe were tools first.  Notice I said tools and OR farming implements.  They were used as war weapons after they were developed for other uses, hunting for the first two, construction for the later two.



Sorry, I read that "or" as an "of". Still, I wouldn't call the spear and bow as anything but weapons.


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## Samloyal23 (Sep 19, 2022)

Thunderfoot said:


> I've always wondered why Dwarves, being a mining race, would have axes?  But then you realize that they were a Germanic myth and Germania was mostly forest.   In 'reality' they would use picks amd hammers.  So yeah, what you know.



Dwarves need timber for mine braces and to create charcoal for their smithies. There is a reason Ents did not like them. Also, they are based in part on Vikings, who made frequent use of axes as weapons, and picks have never been really popular as weapons. You do see dwarves using swords and hammers as weapon, too.


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