# Captain America: The Winter Soldier (no spoilers in OP; can't promise about the rest of the thread!)



## delericho (Mar 29, 2014)

I went to see this last night, and thoroughly enjoyed it. The plot played out pretty much as I'd have expected from the trailers, but it was entertaining enough for all of that.

There's not too much else to say, really. It's very much of a piece with the first one, so if you enjoyed that (and the recent Marvel films generally), you'll probably enjoy this one.

(Finally, I should note that there is a mid-credits scene which is interesting, and a post-credits scene that we didn't stay to see. Oops.)


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 29, 2014)

(No spoilers)
I did not see the first one, but I did see the new one, and I quite enjoyed it.

I thought the action looked much more real than in most action movies these days. The direction was excellent, and it flowed well. It was certainly a comic book movie with some eye rolling aspects to it, but it was also surprisingly successful in engaging contemporary social issues in the plot. The characters were much better developed in this one than in Avengers. Most of the gag lines worked. The Winter Soldier himself was pretty effectively threatening.

Also, I appreciated that a fair part of it seems to have been shot in DC. I hate it when films are set in the District and filmed elsewhere. It never looks right. They certainly took some liberties, but the movie opens with characters jogging around the Tidal Basin, and it looked right.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 29, 2014)

Biggest reason I have hope for this movie: Not Joe Johnson directing.


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## Bagpuss (Mar 31, 2014)

Really enjoyed it, seemed a bit darker than the first one, less humour in it, but what there was worked. Not knowing the comics the reveal of who the Winter Soldier was, came as a nice surprise, and there were a few other surprises not leaked in the trailers, which was nice.

[sblock]The effect on Marvel's film universe is pretty dramatic (no more SHIELD), how the Agents of SHIELD series continues now is going to be interesting.[/sblock]


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## biotech66 (Mar 31, 2014)

Anyone else kind of surprised by the amount of people trying to not spoil the marvel movie?  Honestly, this stuffs been out there for over 10 years!  I kind of think its funny when people are offended by these spoilers when we are way post the spoiler point.

Back on topic, I think this will be an interesting one.  We haven't see Cap's response to the modern world or his response to "The Avengers."  I'm looking forward to seeing his character grow.


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## Morrus (Mar 31, 2014)

biotech66 said:


> Anyone else kind of surprised by the amount of people trying to not spoil the marvel movie?  Honestly, this stuffs been out there for over 10 years!  I kind of think its funny when people are offended by these spoilers when we are way post the spoiler point.




Not everyone has read the comics.  I certainly haven't; I didn't even nkow it was based on a comic-book storyline. (I've also not read this thread; just replied to this comment which appeared in the What's New? feed).


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## delericho (Mar 31, 2014)

biotech66 said:


> Anyone else kind of surprised by the amount of people trying to not spoil the marvel movie?  Honestly, this stuffs been out there for over 10 years!




I haven't read the comics. Besides, I don't know how closely the movie reflects those comics - it's not exactly uncommon for movies to bear no resemblance to the source beyond the name.

Most importantly, though, I wouldn't want someone to spoil the movie for me, so I'm going to avoid spoiling it for someone else.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 1, 2014)

So, is Redford the Red Skull?


Who are the speedster and the teleketic prisoners?


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## Ahnehnois (Apr 2, 2014)

goldomark said:


> So, is Redford the Red Skull?



Not as such, no. There's no Red Skull in this movie. That "spoiler" was speculation.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 2, 2014)

Bagpuss said:


> [sblock]The effect on Marvel's film universe is pretty dramatic (no more SHIELD), how the Agents of SHIELD series continues now is going to be interesting.[/sblock]



[sblock=Response to spoiler]
I haven't seen the movie, but to tell you the truth, I'm glad they aren't around in the movies any more. SHIELD in the movie universe annoyed me. They are this super spy world awesomeness shadow government organization that every bad guy knows about and can pretty much beat up fairly easily. Their flying bases seem to be really easy targets. They either get taken down or infiltrated and wrecked. [/sblock]


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## Plane Sailing (Apr 4, 2014)

goldomark said:


> So, is Redford the Red Skull?
> 
> 
> Who are the speedster and the teleketic prisoners?




[sblock]
Rather obviously Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, I thought.
[/sblock]


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## Plane Sailing (Apr 4, 2014)

Saw it on Monday night and thoroughly enjoyed it. 

One of the things that I found particularly pleasing is that I thought that they had done a good job of the trailers NOT spoiling major plot points. There were several reveals in the movie that I found quite shocking, and I really like what they did with it throughout.

I especially liked the nod towards recognising some of the post-WW2 dubious government practices.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 4, 2014)

Plane Sailing said:


> [sblock]
> Rather obviously Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, I thought.
> [/sblock]



Her powers were hexes and magic, not telekinesis. It got me confuzzeled.


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## Morrus (Apr 4, 2014)

Saw it today. Good flick; I found the first one boring. This one was much better; could have used a couple less fight scenes and a bit more exploration of the issues they touched on.

It totally suffers from the Bane problem in Dark Knight Rises, though. One phone call to a friend could fix a lot of stuff real quick.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 5, 2014)

Saw it yesterday. GSP sucks as an actor. Everyone laughed in the theater when he spoke. 

Entertaining. Fast pace. No dead moment, few scene that do not bring anything to the story or the characters. Solide directing. 

Age of Ultron will be very interesting. Especially with the actor playing Cap'n having only one movie left in his contract. He might die there and get replaced by Bucky, a bit similar to what happened in the comics.


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## horacethegrey (Apr 5, 2014)

Frankly speaking, I thought this was the greatest film adaptation of a Marvel property. Better than _X-Men First Class_ and even better than my favorite MCU film, _Thor_. And it's great to see a film treatment of Captain America that hits all the goalposts, after such stinkers such as the 1940's serial, the 70's TV movies starring Reb Brown, and the godawful 1990's movie (for the record, I liked _The First Avenger_, but it felt a bit by the numbers despite some moments of brilliance here and there).

As for the far reaching consequences regarding the ending within the MCU, I'm curious to see how it affects _Agents of SHIELD_. Marvel has really amped up their game, lets see how they follow through.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 5, 2014)

Iron Man 1 and Spider Man 2 (vs. Doc Ock) are the two best Marvel adaptations so far.


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## horacethegrey (Apr 5, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Iron Man 1 and Spider Man 2 (vs. Doc Ock) are the two best Marvel adaptations so far.



I like both. And I give credit to the first_ Iron Man_ for starting the whole MCU, but I thought _Winter Soldier_ was a better film. And while _Spider-Man 2_ is great, _The Amazing Spider-Man_ is a much better film adaptation of Spidey. I'm really forward to ASM 2.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 5, 2014)

the spidey remark wasn't that great. The 2nd looks campy, the goblin's makeup looks cheap and there are too many enemies. Hopefully it will kill the franchise and the rights will return to Disney.


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## horacethegrey (Apr 5, 2014)

Suit yourself man. I just feel Marc Webb has done a far better job of capturing Spider-Man on film than Sam Raimi ever did. And no offense to Tobey Maguire, but Andrew Garfield is closer to classic Peter Parker/Spider-Man of the Stan Lee and Steve Ditko stories. 

Anyway enough of that, lest we derail the thread even further. The topic is about Captain America! And on that note, I'm just amazed of how they filmed the action here. It felt right, just like how Cap fought in the comics. A human wrecking ball who plows through mooks like it was a career.


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## sabrinathecat (Apr 6, 2014)

This should have been the first one. Really. The history of the character was covered in the story. You could have started this one with the plane diving into the ocean, the Nick Fury scene in modern NYC, and then gone into this movie, and everything would have been perfect.
As is, this is about on par with Blade, X-Men, and X-2. My date was hoping for more Bare Manly Chest scenery.

There are significant deviations from the comics I read, but I stopped reading comics in 1996, so no idea what more recent reboots have done.

The end of credits short clip is cute, but not special. Something I would have expected the characters to do. Maybe as a warm-up/tie in for CA3.

Nice mention of some of the other characters in the Marvel Universe that haven't had films yet (or not since the 70s). Fairly small too (like the mention during Blade:The series of Marc *Moon Knight* Spectre as a leading authority on lycanthropy and phases of the moon), but good touches.

Hoping the artifact weapon from the mid-credits scene gets turned into Grim Reaper's Scythe (pretty sure it won't, but would be neat if it did).


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## trappedslider (Apr 6, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> Hoping the artifact weapon from the mid-credits scene gets turned into Grim Reaper's Scythe (pretty sure it won't, but would be neat if it did).




If you mean[sblock] Loki's staff[/sblock] I'm guessing it has something to do with either Avengers 2 or GotG..more than likely Avengers 2 given the rest of that scene


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## Kramodlog (Apr 6, 2014)

Yeah, that is the blue infinity gem. The mind gem, the one owned by Thanos.


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## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Apr 6, 2014)




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## trappedslider (Apr 6, 2014)

and a meme is born


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## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Apr 6, 2014)

I hoped to start a meme. And you totally know Melisendrie, Hannibal and Rainbow Bright work for Hydra. Cats too for that matter.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 7, 2014)

/gasp

Not cats too!


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 7, 2014)

I really liked the action scenes. They just looked and felt right. (Without knowing the comics.)

Visually what I found bothersome was that there were a few scenes where they seemed to have nothing in focus, which made it hard to watch in 3D.

I actually disliked the Hydra involvement. I liked the idea of a more or less subtle conspiracy that used the surveillance and remote weapon tech for evil. (It works better for me as the allegory to our current situation.)
The conspiracy could have been Hydra, but I found it hard to swallow that it were so many Shield agents that were part of it. You would have needed to setup some things differently (so you don't need to fill 3 carriers worth of spies), but it would have been doable on a different scale. I guess it's a comic book action movie neccessity that you need lots of explosions and mooks.

I also liked that they didn't put in any love story between any of the cast. 

And I want a Black Widow movie.


Also:

Star Trek/Wars


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## tomBitonti (Apr 7, 2014)

Lot's of spoilers, so let's just black it all out:



Spoiler



Plus: The main characters did well.  There was a lot of chemistry between Cap'n, and Black Widow, and Falcon.

Plus: The action sequences were well done.  Cap'n busting through walls to reach the Winter Soldier, or taking out the VTOL jet.  Falcon and Black Widow, and even Nick Fury, get good action scenes.

Plus: Nuances from Black Widow, like when she is shot: She is dealing in a hard way with a lot of stuff that the Captain mostly shrugs off.

Plus: The bits of humor are a nice touch, and are quite funny, despite the movie having a darker outlook on the whole.

Plus: The reveal in the bunker.  The reveal of the Winter Soldier, and that Nick Fury was not killed.  Although, the Winter Soldier was spoiled by Previews, and Nick Fury surviving was very predictable.

Minus: The Story is _not_ about the Winter Solder, or even about Captain America, it's about SHIELD being compromised, and is really a commentary about the modern surveillance state.

Minus: The story felt like it would work better as a mini-series, with the Hydra reveal being the first half, and the fight to take down SHIELD being the second half.  We are given teases that something is amiss at SHIELD,but nothing to indicate that it has been compromised by Hydra.  The smaller story of Bucky fits nicely in the Captain America character development, but is too big to fit into the movie without detracting from the main story.

Minus: Taking out the Carriers was absurdly easy.  The vital spots were far too easily reached, and far too vulnerable.

Minus: The whole "dumping the database to the internet" cliche.



Thx!

TomB


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## sabrinathecat (Apr 7, 2014)

Grumpy RPG Reviews said:


> I hoped to start a meme. And you totally know Melisendrie, Hannibal and Rainbow Bright work for Hydra. Cats too for that matter.
> 
> View attachment 61137




Hannibal would never work _for _Hydra: he would _run_ Hydra, or be manipulating it from behind the scenes. Possible that he would pose as middle management and run a puppet figurehead to be the face and take the blame.

Or he would eat Hydra....


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## megamania (Apr 9, 2014)

I remember when the Incredible Hulk came out.  they had announced the Captain America movies and  was okay but wasn't sure how they would do it.  Watching the early stages of the Abomination evolution I saw it and went- "Yeah- they can do Captain America"


I was not disappointed.

The movie was awesome.  The events of it are HUGE.  So much was collected and used in a way that worked with various villians.  I am looking forward to #3.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 15, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Saw it yesterday. GSP sucks as an actor. Everyone laughed in the theater when he spoke.



Why? He had, what, two lines? I just saw it, and it didn't seem bad.


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## Bagpuss (Apr 15, 2014)

tomBitonti said:


> Lot's of spoilers, so let's just black it all out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Saw that as a plus myself, you had CA's story in the first film. However there was still some development of the Captain America story especially if 



Spoiler



they are setting up Bucky to replace Steve Rogers


.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 15, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Why? He had, what, two lines? I just saw it, and it didn't seem bad.



He was seriously horrible. I guess you need to speak French to notice.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 15, 2014)

goldomark said:


> He was seriously horrible. I guess you need to speak French to notice.



I guess. It didn't seem badly delivered. His voice didn't sound bad. He sounds awkward suring his interviews, sometimes, but he didn't sound anything like that in the movie.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 15, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I guess. It didn't seem badly delivered. His voice didn't sound bad. He sounds awkward suring his interviews, sometimes, but he didn't sound anything like that in the movie.



Fascinating. He had no emotions when giving his lines. Plus the Québecois accent when he is supposed to be Algerian. And the second line was really silly.


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## Ahnehnois (Apr 15, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Plus the Québecois accent when he is supposed to be Algerian.



Yep, I'm pretty sure you're the only one that noticed that. I've been to Quebec and I have an Algerian friend and I would never have known the difference.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 15, 2014)

Ahnehnois said:


> Yep, I'm pretty sure you're the only one that noticed that. I've been to Quebec and I have an Algerian friend and I would never have known the difference.



Just me? No. As I said earlier, a lot of people in the theater laughed when he opened his mouth.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 15, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Just me? No. As I said earlier, a lot of people in the theater laughed when he opened his mouth.



Quebecois are known for being rude.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 15, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Quebecois are known for being rude.



We are like the USians of North America.


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## Ahnehnois (Apr 16, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Just me? No. As I said earlier, a lot of people in the theater laughed when he opened his mouth.



Just you out of the ENW people who are discussing it in this thread, not out of the entire world. Also, it's possible they laughed for other reasons, though if you were at a theater in Quebec maybe that was the issue there at least.

Me, I kind of rolled my eyes when they walked out of the Apple store into an indoor mall. DC has very few such malls and the only Apple store in the District is not in or near one, it is on the street in Georgetown. I've bought iPods there. But I understand that most people won't notice that detail.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 16, 2014)

goldomark said:


> We are like the USians of North America.



So Quebecois are rude and fat?


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## Kramodlog (Apr 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> So Quebecois are rude and fat?



Without the guns.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 16, 2014)

Ahnehnois said:


> Just you out of the ENW people who are discussing it in this thread, not out of the entire world.



It is like I'm the only Québecois commenting in this thread. 



> Also, it's possible they laughed for other reasons,



Yeah, no.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 16, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Without the guns.



What fun is that?


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## Kramodlog (Apr 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> What fun is that?



I love laughing at weaponless fat people.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 16, 2014)

goldomark said:


> I love laughing at weaponless fat people.



Just toss some doughnuts on the floor and watch them try t get them. Hilarious.


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## Kramodlog (Apr 16, 2014)

I hate the sound of wheezing.


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