# Trolls and OT



## TeaBee (Jan 24, 2002)

Can there be an area just for trolls?

I really hate trolls. Even worse are threads that announce that they're trolls when they're really just a waste of space.

If trolls were "slid" into a troll area, maybe the whole stupid phenomenon would just go away.

I'd like to see an off topic area too.

Couldn't General RPG Discussion just be general RPG discussion or is that asking too much?


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## MythandLore (Jan 24, 2002)

An area for Trolls aye?
Not a bad Idea, they could call the Forum "Under the Bridge"


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## Piratecat (Jan 24, 2002)

Sorry, but no.  Morrus has no interest in running a strictly OT board, or a "troll" board.  And c'mon... do you _really_ think that an actual troll would post on the troll board?  Optimist!  

Incidentally, did something in particular inspire this post? There are very few OT and troll threads in General Discussion at the moment.


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## Darkness (Jan 24, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *... And c'mon... do you really think that an actual troll would post on the troll board?  Optimist!  *



He said "slid" into a troll area, so I think he means _we_ should move them there...


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## trentonjoe (Jan 24, 2002)

I agree with TeaBee.  I think the trolls are a giant waste of space and probably slow down the system.

I think since speed is currently  an issue, maybe someone could politely ASK to stop doing it for the next month or so.

I would like to see trolls moved elsewhere  but that seems like a pretty subjective decision.


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## Wicht (Jan 24, 2002)

Just out of curiousity, what trolls are bothering you at the moment - there does not seem to be a lot of them - or maybe I just can't see them for all the polls.  

Many trolls are actually pretty funny and one of the main things I look forward to reading over in general - of course some of them are rather lame too - but you gotta sift for the gold 

And then too trolls are subjective creatures - some might consider threads like this trolling and others think it legitimate.  Some might consider foresters lectures to be trolls, some might not.  Some trolls you don't even know they are trolls until 50 posts into a thread.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 24, 2002)

I believe I'm entitled to my opinion, so here it is:

I REALLY wish Eric hadn't been so enamored of trolls originally, or it never would have gotten this far on a moderated forum.

I wish they would be obliterated from existence, for one MAJOR reason:
They get in the WAY of communication.
These boards are all ABOUT communication.

And just because there aren't a number of trolls right NOW, that does NOT mean that we should not be vigilant about there return, and perhaps nail things down in preparation.
I, for one, applaud this thread, though i hold NO faith that anything will be done about this vermin.

The Powers That Be are too much fans of the concept of trolling to realize its destructive impacts, apparently.


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## Umbran (Jan 25, 2002)

And perhaps the detractors of trolling are a bit too quick to vehemence?  Remember what happens whenever one seeks a greater level of control.  Think about the consequences of policing trolls....

In order to determine if something is really a troll, you need to read the author's mind.  Everything else is guesswork.  That means any number of legitimate inquiries and opinions can get squashed in the pursuit of a troll-free board.  Then there's the extra work this would mean for the moderators.  Not only would they have to keep an extra eye out, but they'd then have to field the complaints as well.

Are acrimony and burned-out moderators worth it?


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## MythandLore (Jan 25, 2002)

Umbran said:
			
		

> *And perhaps the detractors of trolling are a bit too quick to vehemence?  Remember what happens whenever one seeks a greater level of control.  Think about the consequences of policing trolls....
> 
> In order to determine if something is really a troll, you need to read the author's mind.  Everything else is guesswork.  That means any number of legitimate inquiries and opinions can get squashed in the pursuit of a troll-free board.  Then there's the extra work this would mean for the moderators.  Not only would they have to keep an extra eye out, but they'd then have to field the complaints as well.
> 
> Are acrimony and burned-out moderators worth it? *




But then you have people that post crap like:
(Troll) This is a Troll
and
The Greatest Troll of All


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## The It's Man (Jan 25, 2002)

I miss Bugaboo


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## Holy Bovine (Jan 25, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I believe I'm entitled to my opinion, so here it is:
> 
> I REALLY wish Eric hadn't been so enamored of trolls originally, or it never would have gotten this far on a moderated forum.
> 
> ...





And WRITING in CAPITAL letters ALWAYS gets more attention than JUST typing normally.  MAYBE we should crack down on SHOUTING on THE boards.


Sheesh!  I highly doubt 2-3 trolls per day are going to kill communication on these boards.  And posting on troll threads to get people to stop trolling is always the stupidest thing to do (not that I'm implying that is what's going on here).

If you ignore them they do go away you know....


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## graydoom (Jan 25, 2002)

Frankly, I don't see this as anywhere near a big issue. Just ignore the threads you aren't interested in.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 25, 2002)

Umbran said:
			
		

> *And perhaps the detractors of trolling are a bit too quick to vehemence?*



Umbran.
Please stop following me around and commenting after every post i make.  

I feel like you're stalking me.   LOL


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## Grandpa (Jan 25, 2002)

This is a troll, right?


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## TeaBee (Jan 25, 2002)

The above post by Grandpa is a prime example of why I hate trolls.



> Incidentally, did something in particular inspire this post? There are very few OT and troll threads in General Discussion at the moment.




For trolls, it was a "This is a Troll" type one. It isn't the first time I've seen one, and it shows how the whole phenomenon has gotten out of hand.

For OT it's always seeing a Buffy thread; so much so that I wonder why the posters haven't looked for a message board that's actually about Buffy.

Now I _can_ see there not being a place for trolls, but I find that "RPG" is too often taken out of the "General RPG Discussion" area.  

When I go there I'm looking for general RPG discussion, not some nutty troll or off topic thread. 

Call me crazy.


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## Grandpa (Jan 25, 2002)

Seriously, it's tempting to agree with your point. I like meaningful, RPG-related threads too. But I also feel that the one, maybe two trolls that are active at any given time are usually only guilty of being uninventive. I think it would be more worthwhile to keep people from ruining good trolls than trying to restrict something that only makes a peep on these boards.

Also, OT threads are a nice way to get to know the other board members personally. This is a community, not a job, and it's hardly a chore to pass over threads that you don't like (especially when most are marked "[OT]").

P.S. I apologize for my lame, obvious troll joke.


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## Holy Bovine (Jan 25, 2002)

TeaBee said:
			
		

> *The above post by Grandpa is a prime example of why I hate trolls.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You're crazy  

Seriously if you really want OT and troll threads to go away faster here's some pointers.

1)  Don't post to them!  I know I said this before but it's still true.  It boggles my mind that everytime there is a troll post someone will post to it saying that trolls are stupid and you shouldn't post to them!  

2)  Start a new thread about a general RPG topic.  The more topics that get posted the faster an unwanted troll post will be knocked off the front page and forgotten.  Heck even opeing a few old chesnuts like alignment or 'shafting' will generate mucho discussion around here.

I really don't think trolls are a problem around here.  One persons troll is another persons serious topic.  I remember a post by Sablewyvern on the old boards just before the switch that was (most people thought) a very serious discussion about the tone & merits of the DMG when someone came in claiming that it was just a troll topic.  It wasn't but if the Mods took a hard-line stance against 'trolls' he probably could have gotten the thread closed.

Not the biggest disaster but it would have been annoying.

As far as Buffy and Enterprise threads (there always seem to be these two going at any goiven time) - that is only 2 threads of 40 displayed on the main page.  They are clearly marked OT and you really can just ignore them.  I do.

*Whew* sorry to sound like a prickly pear but I keep seeing these rants against trolls & OT posts and I really do feel that they are a non-issue since they take up so little space and a so easily ignored and forgotten.

Keep the peace


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## Piratecat (Jan 25, 2002)

While I sympathize, I'm afraid that several of you are doing the messageboard equivalent of raging at the tide.  I have neither the time, energy, or inclination to try and second-guess each poster's motivation.  The moderators  would rather treat the message board members as adults, trusting them to be responsible and not abuse the other members. We're hardly ever disappointed.

Besides, we _are_ a community. That means jokes and chatting as well as straight commentary. I don't ever want that to change.


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## Holy Bovine (Jan 25, 2002)

And that's the Bottom Line 'cuz Piratecat sez so!!


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## Darkness (Jan 25, 2002)

Holy Bovine said:
			
		

> *And that's the Bottom Line 'cuz Piratecat sez so!!     *



Right.


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## A2Z (Jan 25, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *Besides, we are a community. That means jokes and chatting as well as straight commentary. I don't ever want that to change. *



 I couldn't agree more. I can't remember who said this but I still remember the quote: _"I came here for D&D. I stayed because of the community"_.

I love talking about D&D here, but it's because I enjoy talking to these people about D&D that I also want to talk to them about other things. If I were to go look for a Buffy or Star Trek forum I would lose the best part about talking about these things here; The people.


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## graydoom (Jan 25, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *Besides, we are a community. That means jokes and chatting as well as straight commentary. I don't ever want that to change. *



I very much agree. Community talk, jokes, off topic stuff, and all that... I feel that General Discussion is a perfectly fine place for it. The community we have here is a big part of what makes ENBoards great.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 25, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I, for one, applaud this thread, though i hold NO faith that anything will be done about this vermin.
> 
> The Powers That Be are too much fans of the concept of trolling to realize its destructive impacts, apparently.   *



And thus Piratecat bears this out.  

BTW: I have no problem with OT threads... i think they are an important part of this community, as Piratecat says.

I reject his implication that TROLLS are a necessary, or welcome, addition to this community.
Trolls are not jokes, or joshing around.

They destroy the tenuous hold on reasonable discourse that we have on these boards.
This is evidenced by MANY times, a valid thread is veered off course because someone believes the poster to not be serious.

HolyBovine, it would be nice if it was as simple as you say.
You can't just "ignore" Trolls and hope they go away.
They DON'T.
Your suggestion to not post to troll threads is analogous to "Don't buy drugs from a pusher and they'll go away."

SOMEONE will buy the drugs from the pusher, and possibly become addicted to the destructive habit of trolling, purportedly as an "art form."

Bleeeaaach.

The only way to deal with trolls is to not encourage them, and to expose them as such early and often.


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## Piratecat (Jan 25, 2002)

Errrrr....

I think it's kind of a stretch to equate message board trolls with drug pushers.  We're having fun here; this isn't rocket science, and it isn't life-or-death. It's a messageboard about a fun game, and I think it's a damn good one. It self-regulates itself, just as you're doing right now. That's why moderators shut so few threads; very few people are purposeful jerks, and when they do it inadvertently, everyone else lets them know it.

That being said, there is a different between malicious trolls and jokes. I have very little tolerance for mean-spirited, argument-encouraging cruelty. I have more tolerance for thought-provoking silliness. I doubt that will change, and I'm sorry that we disagree, but there it is.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 26, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> * I have more tolerance for thought-provoking silliness. I doubt that will change, and I'm sorry that we disagree, but there it is. *



I thought the drug-pusher analogy was damn good!    *sniff* <-- crying, not..  you know.

If trolls were thought-provoking (a la Bugaboo at his best) i really wouldn't have a problem with them.

The problem is, people now use them as an excuse to "get one over" on the silly newbies, who *actually* take people at face value on the boards.

There is a place for thought-provoking trollish behavior, and it's Nutkinland.
Go there, people, and see what becomes of a place that indulges in too much clique-like in-jokes and not-posting-what-they-really-mean.
It's much rarer to have a place where people say what they actually mean, not just pose and posture.

I, for one, will fight to keep the ENBoards a place where sincerity and honesty is not an extinct trait.


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## Holy Bovine (Jan 26, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *HolyBovine, it would be nice if it was as simple as you say.
> You can't just "ignore" Trolls and hope they go away.
> They DON'T.
> Your suggestion to not post to troll threads is analogous to "Don't buy drugs from a pusher and they'll go away."
> ...




Did you really type this?  Trolling is like drug pushers?

You're just trolling right? 

I know, I know 'its been done' still your post was just begging for this.


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## Darkness (Jan 26, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I reject his implication that TROLLS are a necessary, or welcome, addition to this community.
> Trolls are not jokes, or joshing around.
> 
> They destroy the tenuous hold on reasonable discourse that we have on these boards.
> This is evidenced by MANY times, a valid thread is veered off course because someone believes the poster to not be serious.*



I don't think so. Maybe that happens every now and then, but most trolls are in threads that were started for the purpose of trolling, actually...


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## Kwalish Kid (Jan 26, 2002)

*Fromout of nowhere, an attack!*

_From offside, Kwalish Kid lunges on the freaks that are perhaps inadvertently trolling this forum by complaining about trolls. One claw for TeaBee, one claw for the always dull reapersaurus, Kwalish Kid smashes them to the ground._

Aha! You have merited baseless personal attacks! I shall be merciless. Let this be a lesson to you!

_Kwalish Kid exits, stage right._


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## Someguy (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: Fromout of nowhere, an attack!*



			
				Kwalish Kid said:
			
		

> *From offside, Kwalish Kid lunges on the freaks that are perhaps inadvertently trolling this forum by complaining about trolls. One claw for TeaBee, one claw for the always dull reapersaurus, Kwalish Kid smashes them to the ground.
> 
> Aha! You have merited baseless personal attacks! I shall be merciless. Let this be a lesson to you!
> 
> Kwalish Kid exits, stage right. *





_Someguy claps politly_


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