# Anthony Valterra breaks his silence



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Folks,

Sorry about the delay in responding it was unavoidable. I am going to say one thing and then open myself up for questions. I will respond to these questions as regularly as I can. Keep in mind there are 100's if not 1000's of you and one of me. I hope that some of my cohorts will jump in occasionally as well. Okay - now my one statement:

Wizards of the Coast and I are parting company. This was a planned transition and we are parting amicably.

Now then - on to the questions!

AV

p.s. I am doing it this way because ther are so many threads that it would take me forever to hunt them all down.


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## Mark (May 4, 2003)

I hope things go well for you out on your own.  Thanks for all of your hard work while at WotC. 

What sort of content, and how much of it (approx.) do you think will be OGC from the BoEF?

Thanks.


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## Kilmore (May 4, 2003)

Alrighty-o.  Glad to see you.  I'll let the others start with the controversy, as they are better at it.  But anyways, how are you doing, and who's going to be handling D&D at WoTC now?


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## Arcane Runes Press (May 4, 2003)

First things first. Congratulations and good luck with your venture.

Now. I'll ask a couple common questions to get them out there. They, or some variation of them, have appeared on every thread about your book on every message board I've seen. So:

1) People have been speculating about improper use of the OGL, specifically in reference to your press release's direct mention of compatability with Dungeons & Dragons. What's your position on the matter?

2) Will the product be marked as age restricted?


Patrick Y.


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## Zappo (May 4, 2003)

I'm not completely surprised at you leaving WotC. I'm glad to hear that it was planned and going smoothly. 

What can you tell about the BoEF's page count? And what approx. percentile will be text, as opposed to photos?


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## thundershot (May 4, 2003)

I hope all works out for you. It seems your departure is on good terms, so that's cool. A lot of the fear will come from people being unsure about the SRD updates being in capable hands. While the ELH and D&Dg are on the way, I know many want the MotP in as well.

As for your new controversial book (and boy is it), will it be softcover or hardcover? Black & white or color? Approx page count?

Personally, to me, it sounds like it'll be one of those books that will see little use, but it'll be nice to have it handy "just in case". It'll also make an interesting read (I'm 28 years old, married for 10 years without children.. yet). Also, while I couldn't stand the gory "icky" nature of the BoVD, this is something that I'm more comfortable (as well as my gamer wife) with.

Are there any other products that you wish to do that you're willing to mention?


Thanks for you time!
Chris Dickinson


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## Number47 (May 4, 2003)

Umm. I feel a little leery of asking question of "Valterrafromhome" who is a new member with only 3 posts. Can we get any confirmation this is not a spoof?


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## ColonelHardisson (May 4, 2003)

Anthony, what will your departure from WotC mean in regards to the placement of material into the SRD? For quite a while now, it has seemed that you were the driving force behind getting the SRD complete.


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## Leopold (May 4, 2003)

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> *Anthony, what will your departure from WotC mean in regards to the placement of material into the SRD? For quite a while now, it has seemed that you were the driving force behind getting the SRD complete. *





i concur. How will this affect the timetable that is setup for the rest of the pieces to move into SRD such as ELH, D&Dg and MOTP?


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## William Ronald (May 4, 2003)

First, Anthony, thanks for all the hard work on the SRD and in helping D&D survive the problems at TSR.  I feel that the OGL and the D20 movement has truly helped bring several new voices and ideas to the gaming community. 

Anthony, thanks for responding. 

Now for some questions.

1.)  There has been some discussions on the use of the Dungeons and Dragons name brand in the press release for the BoEF.  Does the use of the brand name  in the press release indicate that WotC will allow other publishers, such as Necromancer Games and Green Ronin, to use the Dungeons and Dragon name in their advertising.

2)  There seems to be different views of the Book of Erotic Fantasy.  Some hope that sexuality and related topics (for example, tantric magic) will be handled in the manner that Gwendolyn Kestrel described: with humor, seriousness, and good tastes.  Others fear that the BoEF will be something that will offend most of the gaming community, and will be lurid.  From following the threads, you must know that opinions are all over the map? So what can you say about the book, its topics, the art work, and how the general approach of the Book of Erotic Fantasy.

3) In a previous thread, you discussed the possibility of a line of mature products.  This has been compared by some as a line of products similar in tone to Heavy Metal Magazine, or the original movie of the same name?  How would you describe the Valar project and the sorts of products you see it publishing?

4) What is your reaction to some of the threads that have appeared here and else where?  Specifically, how would you answer those who worry about the BoEF having a  negative impact on the gaming community.  In one thread, an educator mentioned he would be reluctant to recommend D&D as a game while working in an official capacity.  Another gamer I know, who is still in high school, faced an assistant principal who banned an RPG club from his school?  

5)You mentioned that your leaving WotC was a planned transition? Can you comment on some of the reasons behind your leaving WotC? Also, what accomplishmets that you made at WotC have given you the most pride and satisfaction? Is there anything you wish you could have done differently?

(Privately, I do support your right to publish the book.  However, I do not see it as really appealing to me.  However, romance and sex have popped up in my campaign over the past two decades.)

Everyone, let us treat all the opinions expressed on this thread and those who post them with respect.  Remember the tag line in my sig.   So far, very good questions.

Perhaps some of the other people involved with the BoEF might wish to post to this thread as well.

Moderators:  Perhaps it might be wise to update the front page, as many people have wished to hear Mr. Valterra's comments on the BoEF and other issues.


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## EricNoah (May 4, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Umm. I feel a little leery of asking question of "Valterrafromhome" who is a new member with only 3 posts. Can we get any confirmation this is not a spoof? *




I hereby confirm that it's not a spoof.


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## William Ronald (May 4, 2003)

Thanks, Eric!!

(I think this thread should be mentioned on the front page.)

Okay, another question for Mr. Valterra.

Ryan Dancey recently mentioned where he believes the OGL will go in the near future.  What are you thoughts on his views and where do you see the OGL and the D20 movement going in the next few years?


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Mark said:
			
		

> *I hope things go well for you out on your own.  Thanks for all of your hard work while at WotC.
> 
> What sort of content, and how much of it (approx.) do you think will be OGC from the BoEF?
> 
> Thanks.  *




Likely close to 100%. We will hold copyright on the images and a few names and thats about it. 
AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Kilmore said:
			
		

> *Alrighty-o.  Glad to see you.  I'll let the others start with the controversy, as they are better at it.  But anyways, how are you doing, and who's going to be handling D&D at WoTC now? *




I don't know at this time. I'm sure WotC will make an announcment on that as soon as possible.

AV


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## alsih2o (May 4, 2003)

mr. valterra,

 how much wood could a dire woodchuck chuck if a dire woodchuck could chuck wood?


 good luck with your endeavours....


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## SemperJase (May 4, 2003)

Mr. AV,

Well, it appears that my concerns about your conflict of interest were uninformed. Thankfully that is. This news restores my confidence in WotC's managment and your business integrity.  

I am surprised the announcement of your departure came after the product press release. I am also relieved that WotC is not going to have any connection with the BoEF as it seems to take RPG's in a direction I don't believe they need to go. 

My perception of you is a pretty astute business man. As you know warning labels seem to help sell products, rather than hinder them.

My question is how are you going to market this book? Through what channels will it be sold, i.e. game stores? Will it be "behind the counter" or on the shelf with a warning label, in a wrapper? If you can answer, are distributors accpeting it?


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Arcane Runes Press said:
			
		

> *First things first. Congratulations and good luck with your venture.
> 
> Now. I'll ask a couple common questions to get them out there. They, or some variation of them, have appeared on every thread about your book on every message board I've seen. So:
> 
> ...




Excellent, excellent questions. In regards to #1. In the time that I have been in charge of the OGl/d20 I have never stated that one cannot make the truthful statement that ones product is compatible with Dungeons & Dragons. A press rlease is considered a "statement". Although there is currently a case pending that may change this (Nike vs. Kasky), currently a press release is not considered marketing or advertising. The OGL/d20 does not permit using the trademarked term Dungeons & Dragon in advertising or marketing. 

In regards to #2 the product will be handled in the same manner as Book of Vile Darkness - it will be stickered. Hopefully with more user friendly glue. 

AV


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## Balsamic Dragon (May 4, 2003)

First off, good luck with the new company!

Couple of questions:

1.  On the scale between light (Xxxenophile) and dark (BoVD, White Wolf) mature material, in terms of tone, where do you see the new book as falling?

2.  WOTC seemed, well, pretty pissed about the press release.  Some might say this reaction is somewhat hypocritcal considering the BoVD.  What do you think?

Balsamic Dragon


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## yangnome (May 4, 2003)

I wish you luck in future endevors.  A couple questions:

There has been alot of speculation as to what will be in the BOEF, I was wondering if you could maybe hint at a couple topics, or maybe give a preliminary list of ideas/things you would like to cover in the book.


Is your leaving WotC a sign of another round of layoffs, or is this just involving you?

What are some other products/topics we might see from you in the future?

Do you plan to stick with fantasy?  or are there any chances at modern/other projects?


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

thundershot said:
			
		

> *I hope all works out for you. It seems your departure is on good terms, so that's cool. A lot of the fear will come from people being unsure about the SRD updates being in capable hands. While the ELH and D&Dg are on the way, I know many want the MotP in as well.
> 
> Are there any other products that you wish to do that you're willing to mention?
> 
> ...




The SRD stuff is in really good hands with Andy Smith who is like an SRD OGl/d20 demi-god. Really an amazing guy. Actually let me just take a moment here to talk about the people on my (former) business team.

They are without a doubt the best group of people I have ever worked with. They are uniformly intelligent, creative, unbelievably dedicated. Everyone of them are outstanding employees and outstanding people. I will deeply miss seeing them every day. That will be easily the most difficult part of this transition.

Okay - misty eyed now. 

Other products - I have my thoughts but I really want your feedback. We have a space on our board just to cover the future of Valar Project, Inc. Please do come and let us know.

AV


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## herald (May 4, 2003)

EEEK! the e-tools curse lives!!!!


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## Angcuru (May 4, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *how much wood could a dire woodchuck chuck if a dire woodchuck could chuck wood?*




Dire woodchuck?

regular woodchucks are capable of 150 board feet, so I'd say...400 board feet.


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## yangnome (May 4, 2003)

oh, are you accepting volunteer playtesters?


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> *First, Anthony, thanks for all the hard work on the SRD and in helping D&D survive the problems at TSR.  I feel that the OGL and the D20 movement has truly helped bring several new voices and ideas to the gaming community.
> 
> Anthony, thanks for responding.
> 
> ...




1) Not in advertising - see above post.
2) Gwen is spot on. Yes, the press release emphasised the more controversial aspects. Was that an error? I'm still debating it internally. I will say this - it was my first press release - I'm just glad I didn't mispell the name of my own company. 
3) Huh, missed that thread. Heavy Metal magazine eh? I remember reading that when I was a teenager. Yeah that not a bad comparison. I have most often thought of the Vertigo line. We are handling sex currently but I hope we can branch into a number of areas that are adult. But I am very open to suggestion from the gaming community - check our website.
4) That type of prejudice has been around since the 80's. it will never go away and it will neither be made better or worse by a controversial d20 product. The impact of Book of Vile Darkness must be greater. If it is not that is a truly sad statement about our society.
5) My leaving WotC was a planned transition. We parted amicably.

And though it wasn't a question BoEF will cover marriage, conception, finding your true love, sex and birth. As well as variant magic system based on Tantra, Kundalini and Orgone Energy.

AV


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## MGibster (May 4, 2003)

Do you think your product is receiving a disproportionate amount of buzz relative to the impact it will have on gaming as a whole?  

Marc


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> *Thanks, Eric!!
> 
> (I think this thread should be mentioned on the front page.)
> 
> ...




Way, way, way big subject. I will likely write up an entire position statement like Ryan's. Way to big to cover here late at night.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *mr. valterra,
> 
> how much wood could a dire woodchuck chuck if a dire woodchuck could chuck wood?
> 
> ...




Valar Project will be devoting a portion of the profits from BoEF to research the answer to this question. A question that has palgued mankind for far to long.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

SemperJase said:
			
		

> *Mr. AV,
> 
> My question is how are you going to market this book? Through what channels will it be sold, i.e. game stores? Will it be "behind the counter" or on the shelf with a warning label, in a wrapper? If you can answer, are distributors accpeting it? *




Thank-you for the earlier comments that I snipped. They were astute as well. It is my intention that this book will be sold through hobby channels, book stores and comic book stores. I have had a number of distributors contact me but I have yet to settle on my distribution - though I have strong idea on what I want in that regard. It will be stickered we are debating the shrink wrap option. As to how it will be displayed in your local game store - I have no control over that.

AV


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## MissDemeanor (May 4, 2003)

My name is Susan, I am the art director for the BoEF. I’ve greatly enjoyed the posts in EnWorld for the last few days. 

Though I am not very available these days I’ll try to answer some art questions on both this board and on the Valar website forum as well.


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Balsamic Dragon said:
			
		

> *First off, good luck with the new company!
> 
> Couple of questions:
> 
> ...




#1 I wouldn't compare it to either. It certainly won't have level of humour that XXXenophile has - though it won't be clinical or grim. And it won't have the level of darkness that BOVD has though it will have some grim elements (Fallen Cherub - nasty critter).

#2 My departure from WotC was a planned transition. We parted amicably.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

yangnome said:
			
		

> *I wish you luck in future endevors.  A couple questions:
> 
> There has been alot of speculation as to what will be in the BOEF, I was wondering if you could maybe hint at a couple topics, or maybe give a preliminary list of ideas/things you would like to cover in the book.
> 
> ...




Almost all of this will be covered on our website including previews of the product.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

herald said:
			
		

> *EEEK! the e-tools curse lives!!!! *




AAAHHHHHHH cr*p I was hoping no one would make that connection!

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

yangnome said:
			
		

> *oh, are you accepting volunteer playtesters? *




We will be, let us know on our website on our messageboards.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

MGibster said:
			
		

> *Do you think your product is receiving a disproportionate amount of buzz relative to the impact it will have on gaming as a whole?
> 
> Marc *




Nope 

AV


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## Bendris Noulg (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> 3) Huh, missed that thread. Heavy Metal magazine eh? I remember reading that when I was a teenager. Yeah that not a bad comparison. I have most often thought of the Vertigo line. We are handling sex currently but I hope we can branch into a number of areas that are adult. But I am very open to suggestion from the gaming community - check our website.



Actually, I'm the one that mentioned Heavy Metal as one of many examples of Erotic Fantasy by which I was hoping BoEF would be similar to (at least in tone and tenor).

As a long-time EF fan, I'm glad to hear I was close to the mark.


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## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Bedtime!

AV


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## Angcuru (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *Bedtime!
> 
> AV *




Don't let the bedbugbears bite!


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## alsih2o (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Valar Project will be devoting a portion of the profits from BoEF to research the answer to this question. A question that has palgued mankind for far to long.
> 
> AV *




 finally!! a company with a conscience!


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## d20Dwarf (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Valar Project will be devoting a portion of the profits from BoEF to research the answer to this question. A question that has palgued mankind for far to long.
> 
> AV *




Anthony,

My company, Woodchuck & Woodchuck, would be happy to place a bid for the appropriated funds. Being comprised entirely of woodchucks (and woodchuck-lovers), we believe we are positioned to strategically utilize our unique synergy to help you achieve your business goals.


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## seasong (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> 2) Gwen is spot on. Yes, the press release emphasised the more controversial aspects. Was that an error? I'm still debating it internally. I will say this - it was my first press release - I'm just glad I didn't mispell the name of my own company.



The press release... I don't want to hurt the author's feelings, but it was bad. I didn't find it particularly controversial, just bad. I reviewed it in another thread, but here are the high lights:

1. The opening sentence is passive voice*.
2. All women discussed in the press release are objects; the only actor is Conan, who is famous for treating women like objects.
3. All women in the press release are fey. Already, this is sounding damned narrow.
4. Valar Project, Inc., is not even close to the first company to take on the subject of sex in the world of elves and dragons.
5. "In 2003 all the curiosity about sex in the realms of fantasy will be satisfied." 'Nuff said - this is just bad.
6. Hyped images... sorry, a calendar is cheaper; and photoshopped images are all over the Internet.
7. The tip sheet: Doesn't even mention Gwen. That's cold, man.
8. The tip sheet: Doesn't seem relevant.

* Passive voice has a purpose. It is grammatically correct, and very useful on occasion. The _wham_ statement is not one of them. Most writers use passive voice when they try to avoid personal responsibility for the text, lack comfort with the subject, or write scholarly acadamese.

As a side note: Personally, I did not find that the artist's web site to be a good selling point. In general, unless the artist is well known and beloved to the community you are selling it to, this sort of inclusion in the ad copy is risky... especially if you don't even MENTION the authors. Good grief.

So, anyway, I apologize if this post is pretty negative. I was really turned off by the press release. If I wanted what the press release was selling, I would _buy a calendar_.


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## William Ronald (May 4, 2003)

> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Originally posted by William Ronald
> Thanks, Eric!!
> ...




I am looking forward to the position statement.  I hope you will include some reflections on what the OGL and D20 movement has  achieved since its inception.  Any thoughts on the accomplishments at WotC during your tenure and what you wish the company might have done differently?  (I know a lot of people here grumbled about errors in the first printing of Sword and Fist)  

Obviously, prejudice against gaming still exists.  Of course, I believe that knowledge and reasoned discussion are effective tools in fighting prejudice of many sorts. Do you think some of the leading game writers and publishers might want to work on a project to better educate people.

For those who might need a little help in defending the hobby, you might want to visit The Escapist, a roleplaying advocacy website.

seasong,  I agree with your points on the press release.   Active voice would have helped the press release.  Your other points were also right on the mark.  (I never spent much time considering Conan's prowess, except in overcoming obstacles.  As for Arwen, when I first read the Lord of the Rings, I was impressed with the thought that someone would chose love over immortality and eternal youth.  From what AV has said, it looks like love will also be explored in the BoEF. )


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## Nyarlathotep (May 4, 2003)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> *
> 
> As for Arwen, when I first read the Lord of the Rings, I was impressed with the thought that someone would chose love over immortality and eternal youth.  From what AV has said, it looks like love will also be explored in the BoEF. ) *




Am I the only one who didn't even think about Arwen when reading LOTR? I kept getting her and Eowyn mixed up and frankly since neither one of them went to Moria, I didn't think they were that essential 

(Of course now that I'm older and wiser, I appreciate all the nuances of LOTR).


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## Wolv0rine (May 4, 2003)

*Very offended, but still 100% IMO*

Okay, okay.  Up until a few minutes ago I thought this was just so much seriously overblown hype over a titilation sex-themed book.  Fairly silly, not to be taken seriously, and cute to smile about in a bemused fashion because of the knee-jerk reaction it makes.

But I just followed the link to Mr. Safford's website, and my mind is entirely changed.

In my personal opinion, it is sick and wrong to use that individual's work in any corner of the gaming field if it bears even the faintest whiff of the thematic elements found on his webpage.  And if his work in the BoEF does not bear a thematic similarity to the work on his page, then it was irresponsible of you to have included that link.  That soars past "Adult" without so much as a glance, and flies right on into twisted and disturbed.  

Many may feel I'm being too harsh.  To those I say, I've been typing this response now for the better part of an hour and a half, I have written it and re-written it over a dozen times now, each time reigning myself in more, and this is what I have left.  Go and view the photographer's website (if you are at LEAST 18, and have not eaten recently) and form your own conclusion.

My opinion?  The book doesn't *sound* to have anything offensive textually in the least, and it amazes me that anyone who doesn't think their 12 year old will be getting 6 copies might think so.  On the other hand, if the work provided by Mr. Safford in the book is even vaguely thematically similar to the work on his own site -- not only would I never consider buying it, I wouldn't game with anyone who had.  Based solely on that webpage.


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## Bendris Noulg (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Very offended, but still 100% IMO*



			
				Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> In my personal opinion, it is sick and wrong to use that individual's work in any corner of the gaming field if it bears even the faintest whiff of the thematic elements found on his webpage.



Actually, there are a number of themes found in Hypnotix's site.  He's already discussed the nature of the artwork for BoEF on the boards at AC's site.

Generally, each of the sets on his site were _collaborative_, meaning the models in the images were as much a part of establishing how each set would be photographed (and what they would contain) as he was.

I would expect the imagery in BoEF to be fitting to the subject matter.


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## Wolv0rine (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Very offended, but still 100% IMO*



			
				Bendris Noulg said:
			
		

> *Actually, there are a number of themes found in Hypnotix's site.  He's already discussed the nature of the artwork for BoEF on the boards at AC's site.
> 
> Generally, each of the sets on his site were collaborative, meaning the models in the images were as much a part of establishing how each set would be photographed (and what they would contain) as he was.
> 
> I would expect the imagery in BoEF to be fitting to the subject matter. *




If so, that's cool.  I tried to include enough "if"s to maintain that I might have been working under false presumptions about the nature of his work in the book.  Like I said, I admit that what his thing is isn't my business, I just feel that sort of thing would be crass and unprofessional to put into a gamebook,were that the case.  
Thanks for pointing out the AC's forum thing, btw.  By the time I had read the news release, followed a link or two, and ended up at the photographer's portfolio, I completely forgot to read their forums (which I had intended to do).


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## kenjib (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *
> 2) Gwen is spot on. Yes, the press release emphasised the more controversial aspects. Was that an error? I'm still debating it internally. I will say this - it was my first press release - I'm just glad I didn't mispell the name of my own company.
> *




Hello Anthony and thank you for taking the time to discuss this openly with us.  I really appreciate it.

1.  Was this emphasis on the controversial aspects an intentional attempt to stir up free publicity by representing (only implicitly of course) the product as something more than it is?  If so, was it done because of the possible beneficial effect this same type of marketting (whether intentional or not) had on sales of the Book of Vile Darkness?

2.  I've seen a reference, I think on Andy Collins' board, to more variety in the body types of the models, but I don't clearly recall.  Is the goal of the artwork to represent a more realistic image of men's and women's bodies or will it take a more idealized approach (some might say cheesecake/beefcake)?

3.  Your press release states that "Valar Project, Inc. will be the first company to take on the subject of sex in the world of elves and
dragons."  How does this relate to others such as Mongoose's book, Nymphology?

4.  Will the overall art direction style be more edgy or traditional?  Lots of black leather and buckles?  Chainmail bikinis?

Good luck on your new venture and thanks again for your time!

-Kenji


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## jdavis (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Very offended, but still 100% IMO*



			
				Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If so, that's cool.  I tried to include enough "if"s to maintain that I might have been working under false presumptions about the nature of his work in the book.  Like I said, I admit that what his thing is isn't my business, I just feel that sort of thing would be crass and unprofessional to put into a gamebook,were that the case.
> Thanks for pointing out the AC's forum thing, btw.  By the time I had read the news release, followed a link or two, and ended up at the photographer's portfolio, I completely forgot to read their forums (which I had intended to do). *




I wonder how many people have followed that link and had the same reaction? While that might not be a fair example of the pictures for this book I'm sure it caused alot of confusion for a lot of people. I didn't find the photographer's site all that bad but I can understand where a lot of people would. A link to a couple of example pictures from the book instead of the photographer's website may of been more informative in this case.


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## Steverooo (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *Wizards of the Coast and I are parting company. This was a planned transition and we are parting amicably.*




Why?


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## mythusmage (May 4, 2003)

Hi Tony, a few questions for you:

1. Will the BoEF include naked undead vampire elf babes with spikey bits?

With the silliness out of the way...

2. To what degree will the book deal with rape, abuse, and other forms of sexual predation?

3. Will the book deal with pregnancy termination, both induced and spontaneous?

4. Will sex laws be dealt with?

5. Sexual customs?

6. How will STDs be addressed? 

7. Medical and magical treatments for same?

8. What about sexually related spells, paranormal abilities, and magical devices?

9. Sex in fertility festivals, holidays, and worship?

More as I think of them.


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## Buttercup (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Very offended, but still 100% IMO*



			
				jdavis said:
			
		

> *I wonder how many people have followed that link and had the same reaction? *




I can tell you that I found it repulsive and upsetting.  I'm not exagerating when I say that, during the 2 minutes I spent looking at that site, I nearly puked more than once.  Between that website and the press release, I had determined that the BOEF was not something I would ever consider buying, and just like WolvOrine, I wouldn't want to spend time with anyone who had.  

Then Gwen showed up and described the book as something quite different, which might actually have broad appeal.  

So Anthony, I know it was your first press release, but you might want to tone the future ones down, lest you alienate more customers than you attract. And please don't include links to images like that without a warning.


----------



## Upper_Krust (May 4, 2003)

Hi Anthony! 

I simply wanted to wish you all the best in the future mate. Good luck.


----------



## Danyon Dehlmari (May 4, 2003)

Hey Anthony! Best of luck to you. I've joined your site and boards, and have already posted most of my thoughts on your company and products there. 

I just wanted to wish you the best. I've always had a great respect for you, and while I'm sure you will miss some folks at WotC- I'm sure that you will enjoy working with the Valar crew very much as well. As far as Andy goes in regards to handling the SRD/OGL etc, I can say for a fact-- that he is a great person and does a wonderful job IMO.

My sincerest best wishes to you Anthony.


----------



## Truth Seeker (May 4, 2003)

*Questions...*

I think AV is sleeping........


----------



## Tsyr (May 4, 2003)

I looked through that artist's website...

One gallery of images almost made me wretch, but actualy, a fair number (And by fair I mean, in balance to the horrible ones) of them were, in my opinion, actualy very well done and artistic. A lot of them were just strange... not particularly good or bad. In fact, I would say the majority of them fall in that catagory. 

Mind you, after having followed a few too many links posted at random in IRC channels, I'm fairly immune to horrible pictures at this point... So I might not be the best baseline example there.


----------



## mythusmage (May 4, 2003)

*A Heads Up*

If you use a third party browser (such as *iCab* for the Macintosh) be aware that Valar Projects uses forum software that is only compatible with the big two bloatbrowsers. If you need to pass on ideas etc. to the folks at *Valar Projects* I strongly advise you to do so via email.

The clods responsible for the forum software can be found at phpBB . You can reach the head code dweeb at James. Let him know what you think of his browser bigotry.


----------



## Maraxle (May 4, 2003)

Is the Valar Project planning to release any other types of products (such as campaign settings, modules, etc), or will it only be producing edgy, adult-oriented sourcebooks?  If so, will they contain the same type of adult-oriented content?


----------



## Leopold (May 4, 2003)

*Re: A Heads Up*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *If you use a third party browser (such as iCab for the Macintosh) be aware that Valar Projects uses forum software that is only compatible with the big two bloatbrowsers. If you need to pass on ideas etc. to the folks at Valar Projects I strongly advise you to do so via email.
> 
> The clods responsible for the forum software can be found at phpBB . You can reach the head code dweeb at James. Let him know what you think of his browser bigotry. *






yuor hat of IE no know bound!


----------



## Mystic Eye (May 4, 2003)

Hey AV,

Good luck on the venture and I will go on the record again in saying that everything you shared with me regarding your project at GAMA was both classy and tastefully done.

That being said, check your email for something from me and/ or Hal and I have one question:

So tell me, was your departure from WotC a planned transition?Did you part amicably?


----------



## Tsyr (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: A Heads Up*



			
				Leopold said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> 
> yuor hat of IE no know bound! *




I wouldn't that be "EI"?


----------



## Trickstergod (May 4, 2003)

It would seem that it takes a lot to make me flinch. I'd initially given Hypnox's site a very brief glance over a few hours ago, but just plumbed its depths a bit more thoroughly after seeing here some of the revulsion it inspired.

My conclusion? I'm a jaded, hollow individual. In other words, I didn't find anything particularly offensive. I don't state this to say other peoples actions were overblown or extreme, only to juxtapose and show not everyone holds the opinion that the artwork is too much.

Now, that's not to say I found it all so grand or aesthetically pleasing, either. Interesting, perhaps, but nothing that screamed "Lookie me! You will LOVE OR HATE ME!". 

Keep in mind, I'm dead tired at the moment, and quite not with it. So bear with me.

Anyway, the greatest failing I see thus far isn't prurience or vulgarity, but pretension. Between the artwork, and the Valar site set-up, it seems to bear certain artistic similarities with White Wolf's World of Darkness, specifically, Vampire: the Masquerade and Mage: the Ascenscion, both of which have suffered from elitist snobbery at times. 

Now, that's not to say that will be the case, simply that it's the one possible failing I can foresee. But the artwork? Well, I find nothing personally wrong with it, though I can see it not being some peoples cup of tea. It's nothing that would stop me from picking the book up, but then again, is nothing that would likely make me want to pick it up, either. From all I've seen thus far, I still have a fairly neutral opinion on the Book of Erotic Fantasy, though it doesn't hold particularly much appeal for me, at the moment. 

Ho hum. Anyway, I'm done rambling for the moment. Perhaps I'll add something a bit more insightful once I've slept a little.


----------



## jdavis (May 4, 2003)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *I looked through that artist's website...
> 
> One gallery of images almost made me wretch, but actualy, a fair number (And by fair I mean, in balance to the horrible ones) of them were, in my opinion, actualy very well done and artistic. A lot of them were just strange... not particularly good or bad. In fact, I would say the majority of them fall in that catagory.
> 
> Mind you, after having followed a few too many links posted at random in IRC channels, I'm fairly immune to horrible pictures at this point... So I might not be the best baseline example there. *




I think that exposure to certain material has jaded my view of such things, I really wasn't bothered by the site, but I could understand where people would be. There are a couple of things on the site that draw people's attention when they first go there and those things might not be what you want people to associate with a gaming book. The photographer may have a wide range of work but it's the most controversial stuff that will stick in peoples' minds.


----------



## shadow (May 4, 2003)

I have a question for AV.

You said in the press release that you helped found an occultic church (Church of the Blood Red Moon, if I remember correctly).  What exactly is it, and how is it relevant to the Book of Erotic Fantasy?  Is it somehow related to Tantricism(sp?)?


----------



## Bendris Noulg (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Very offended, but still 100% IMO*



			
				Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> Thanks for pointing out the AC's forum thing, btw.  By the time I had read the news release, followed a link or two, and ended up at the photographer's portfolio, I completely forgot to read their forums (which I had intended to do).



No problem...  I'm inclined to agree that VP could have organized a bit better for this; I would have had the VP site up with a few "appropriate" examples of Hypnox's and Eliza's work for proper representation prior to the press release, but that's me...  Certainly would have cut down on much of the negative fuss.

[Edit: I keep spelling his name Hypnotix...  Must stop that...]


----------



## Leopold (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: A Heads Up*



			
				Tsyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I wouldn't that be "EI"? *





work with me here...


----------



## psionotic (May 4, 2003)

Mystic Eye said:
			
		

> *
> So tell me, was your departure from WotC a planned transition?Did you part amicably?  *




Maybe I'm just a suspicious cynic, but after hearing those exact words, repeated over and over in the exact same way, I'm not so sure I believe them.

It kind of reminds me of Marc Anthony's burial speech in Julius Caesar, where he keeps referring to Cassius and Brutus by saying, "But these are all honorable men...", while of course meaning quite the opposite.


----------



## Wolv0rine (May 4, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *I think that exposure to certain material has jaded my view of such things, I really wasn't bothered by the site, but I could understand where people would be. There are a couple of things on the site that draw people's attention when they first go there and those things might not be what you want people to associate with a gaming book. The photographer may have a wide range of work but it's the most controversial stuff that will stick in peoples' minds. *



Which is funny, because it's my former expose to such things that's made me sensitive to them.   Jaded in the negative, you could say.
Yes, quite true.  The photographer could well have a much wider range of work.  But we cannot assume so based on his own portfolio, and since that's the link we got...

Hey, maybe it all came down to it being Anthony's first Press Release.  That would be kind of us I suppose, to give him the benefit of that doubt.


----------



## Wolv0rine (May 4, 2003)

psionotic said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Maybe I'm just a suspicious cynic, but after hearing those exact words, repeated over and over in the exact same way, I'm not so sure I believe them.
> 
> It kind of reminds me of Marc Anthony's burial speech in Julius Caesar, where he keeps referring to Cassius and Brutus by saying, "But these were all honorable men...", while of course meaning quite the opposite. *




Yeah, after the second or third time, it struck me as an imposed legal response to the question.


----------



## Gothmog (May 4, 2003)

Hi Anthony,

I also wanted to say good luck with this venture, and I hope Valar is successful.  It is high time someone takes a more mature look at themes in D&D.

Something did occur to me though that I thought might merit asking.  Does your company plan to release a series of "mature" themed products?  If so, is there any chance we might see "mature" adventures?  And is there a chance that the BoVD might be put in the SRD so other companies could use ideas contained therein?  Personally, I'd love to see a series of supplements/adventures that draw upon the BoEF and BoVD (maybe something that takes characters from 1st-15th level or so), full of intrigue, political/religious mechanations, and mature themes.

Thanks for your time,


----------



## Creideiki (May 4, 2003)

Mystic Eye said:
			
		

> *
> So tell me, was your departure from WotC a planned transition?Did you part amicably?  *




_*Curiosity:
Planning started on Wednesday?
Not until Thursday?*_


----------



## Enforcer (May 4, 2003)

*Re: A Heads Up*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *If you use a third party browser (such as iCab for the Macintosh) be aware that Valar Projects uses forum software that is only compatible with the big two bloatbrowsers. If you need to pass on ideas etc. to the folks at Valar Projects I strongly advise you to do so via email.
> 
> The clods responsible for the forum software can be found at phpBB . You can reach the head code dweeb at James. Let him know what you think of his browser bigotry. *




Conform.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 4, 2003)

Hello Mr. Anthony Valterra-

Just a few points and a question.

First, no gaming book has universal use. The three main books, the “Player’s Handbook,” the “Dungeon Masters Guide” and the “Monster Manual,” are the only three essential books, assuming it is a D&D game. Therefore, for example, not every one uses the “Secret College of Necromancy” or the “Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings,” even though those are well-written and useful books. Asserting that a book must be used by everyone is a specious assertion deliberately meant to cloud the real issues.

Secondly, sexuality has figured in games in the past (a statement made from personal experience: one of my player characters, with the assistance of another player character, ran a brothel between adventures), from DM’s winging it to people using the net-book of “Carnal Knowledge.”

Thirdly, the book will likely be a commercial success based solely on the sexual content and the controversy (such things sell like hot cakes).

Fourth, it will not damage the hobby or industry. What with the war on terrorism, the economy and other issues, people have better things to do with their time than kill D&D over a sex book. Nor is the fact that it is sexual in nature overwhelmingly damning. White Wolf has outright published material on necrophilia. If the hobby and industry can handle horny, sadomasochistic vampires then it can handle (pardon the expression) elf cleavage.

Now, for the question. Evening considering the above four points, how much actual active tabletop game use do you think this book will get? 

At the risk of being blunt, (and admittedly without seeing the book) it seems likely it will get the same use as an issue of Hustler or a book of Kevin Taylor art. That is to say, personal and private use.

It simply seems unlikely that this book will find anything like the game use of even “Secret College of Necromancy” let alone the “Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings.”

Even in the game with the brothel (which the GM disliked as he was uptight and wanted to run a mostly clerics and paladins game but humored Ian and I with the house of ill repute) the sexuality took place “off stage,” so to speak. Seduction rolls were sometimes made, and two characters were quite active (proactive even), but the discussions were never graphic. At one point, a husband a wife joined the group and their characters were also sexually active – but again, the discussions were never graphic.

If you are actually aiming to broaden the horizons of gamers and to make them confront personal hypocrisy, you will probably be disappointed.

By comparison, Madonna has spent two decades doing that and while her work is a commercial success, she is widely despised.

Sullivan


----------



## Stormprince (May 4, 2003)

Actually, one of my big curiosities about this book, as it was on the BoVD when it was first announced, was on how it was going to deal with such topics as homosexuality and the like. If it's going to be covered, or if it's going to be demonized. And I'm not just talking about gay warrior societies, but also such things as lesbian cultures (Amazon, the Island of Lesbos...oh jeez, why do I have a feeling that I'm opening a can of worms here), 

Looking at the images of the photographers website, it's obvious that the focus is going to be on "scantily/barely clad" women...so I'm already getting a rather skewed image of the artwork consisting almost 100% of scantily clad women...which limits the target audience of the book. Granted, that target audience is the largest percentage of gamers in the industry, but now a days, with more and more female and openly gay gamers, where's the love for the other sides? 

Christopher


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *The press release... I don't want to hurt the author's feelings, but it was bad. I didn't find it particularly controversial, just bad. I reviewed it in another thread, but here are the high lights:
> 
> 1. The opening sentence is passive voice*.
> 2. All women discussed in the press release are objects; the only actor is Conan, who is famous for treating women like objects.
> ...




Actually, this is a pretty good critique - and I'm the author. Do you mind if I use it? I'm planning on ripping the press release apart in an article on the Valar site.

AV


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Very offended, but still 100% IMO*



			
				Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> *Okay, okay.  Up until a few minutes ago I thought this was just so much seriously overblown hype over a titilation sex-themed book.  Fairly silly, not to be taken seriously, and cute to smile about in a bemused fashion because of the knee-jerk reaction it makes.
> 
> But I just followed the link to Mr. Safford's website, and my mind is entirely changed.
> 
> ...




Everyone is absolutely entitled to their artistic opinion. Many people feel the same way about Robert Maplethorpe's photography - espeacially some of his S/M homoerotic art. Personally I love Maplethorpe and I think Safford's work is great as well. I didn't look at his images for the disturbing elements (which I am fine with) I looked at his photography for its use of light and shadows and interesting angles. I liked what I saw alot and that's why I approached him. As to the photos in the BoEF and their relationship to the photos on Doug's site well... I'll let time be the judge.

AV

p.s. I am glad that you posted your opinion in terms of Safford's art and not as a judgement on the man himself. It is easy to equate the artist with the art which  is not always the case. Monte Cook wrote the Book of Vile Darkness and he is as fine an individual as you could care to meet.


----------



## caudor (May 4, 2003)

My question isn't so much about book.  It appears to me that you are a busy busy person.

Do you ever get a chance now days just to sit down with a game and have some fun?

Anyway, I hope you do have opportunities to enjoy the non-business side of gaming now and then.

Regards,
The Clooownn


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

kenjib said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hello Anthony and thank you for taking the time to discuss this openly with us.  I really appreciate it.
> 
> ...




1) That was the intention and BoVD is my model on alot of the things I am doing PR and marketing wise. Once again I am rethinking that strategy.
2) Some of all of that. There will be some hard bodies and their will be some variety. We just did a shoot of a very voluptious "peasant girl". We really wanted to find someone who had an "earthy, big germanic, farm girl kind of look" I think we succeeded. Some of the images will not be sexy in any capacity. We have a Goblin fertility goddess that is just... scary. Some will be sexy and disturbing such as our Pleasure Golem construct. There will be a good mix of images.
3) It probably should have said - "dealing exclusively with" and "published".
4) We are striving to have as wide a vareity as possible and lean more towards the gritty/realistic/dirty look of the LoTR movies. But that said props are not easy to come by. We are being as creative as we can.

AV


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

mythusmage said:
			
		

> *Hi Tony, a few questions for you:
> 
> 1. Will the BoEF include naked undead vampire elf babes with spikey bits?
> 
> ...




1) mmmmmmm... naked vampire elves with spiky bits...
2) NOT AT ALL!!! It is our position that those activites are violence not sex. We already have a ton of rules for violence.
3) Yes.
4) yes.
5) Yes.
6) Think magical STDs... We got some goodies...
7) Yes.
8) Yes.
9) Some but alot of that might be saved for a Campaign Setting but we cover gods so it will get touched on.

AV


----------



## blackshirt5 (May 4, 2003)

Valterra-Looking forward to this book, hope that it's worth the hype.  Also, looking forward to the "voluptuous peasant girl".


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Mystic Eye said:
			
		

> *
> So tell me, was your departure from WotC a planned transition?Did you part amicably?  *




Actually.. yes!

AV


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

shadow said:
			
		

> *I have a question for AV.
> 
> You said in the press release that you helped found an occultic church (Church of the Blood Red Moon, if I remember correctly).  What exactly is it, and how is it relevant to the Book of Erotic Fantasy?  Is it somehow related to Tantricism(sp?)? *




DING, DING, DING... We have a winner!!! What is everyone elee trying to be polite! Shadow you are the first person to ask - thank-you.

In 1992(?) I founded an occult church in Portland Oregon. It's original idea was to be a non-dogmatic church. I used a library (since that is where I was working at the time) as a metaphor. The idea was simple - you strive to progress down the path of realization (however you defined that). The church helped you, record you progress, and provided any help you needed. In return the church would keep a record of your pilgrimage to inspire/educate/give ideas to other seekers. Our first ritual raised enough money (thanks to the help of a stripper friend of mine) to cover our legal expenses. Participation was surpisingly high and I began getting phone calls from interested individuals. We had a number of people working a sex magic path and others working more traditional ritual paths. I learned a great deal.
Unfortunately it rapidly devolved into a cult. It was a stunning (to me) series of events. One day the whole thing had high ideals - the next thing I knew people were looking to me as some sort of spiritual leader. It all happened in about a year. I shut it down when I saw where it was going. It was easily the most spectacular event in my spiritual path.
Because this is Enworld I think I will leave more details about my spiritual questing to the Valar site. Please feel free to ask me more details there.

AV


----------



## seasong (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome [/i][QUOTE][i]Originally posted by seasong said:
			
		

> The press release... I don't want to hurt the author's feelings, but it was bad. I didn't find it particularly controversial, just bad. I reviewed it in another thread, but here are the high lights:



Actually, this is a pretty good critique - and I'm the author. Do you mind if I use it? I'm planning on ripping the press release apart in an article on the Valar site.[/QUOTE]Not at all. Real name's Thomas Weigel .







			
				seasong said:
			
		

> So, anyway, I apologize if this post is pretty negative. I was really turned off by the press release. If I wanted what the press release was selling, I would _buy a calendar_.



Just wanted to say, from the stuff in Gwen's thread and this thread... the text content of the book sounds like it would look good on my shelf. One question:

1) Fully half of my roleplaying group is attracted to men. What will this book offer my group as a whole?


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> *
> At the risk of being blunt, (and admittedly without seeing the book) it seems likely it will get the same use as an issue of Hustler or a book of Kevin Taylor art. That is to say, personal and private use.
> 
> It simply seems unlikely that this book will find anything like the game use of even “Secret College of Necromancy” let alone the “Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings.”
> ...




Sullivan thanks for your comments (snipped). I think will find it more game useful then they think. Okay I am making this up on the fly so bare with me.

Player: Okay, I need to raise my Tantric energy before we try to take on the big bad. I'm going to scan the bar for someone with a high sexual potential and maybe some skills.

DM: Okay make your roll.. (DM rolls secretly to see who is in the bar)

Player: 18! Who do I sense?

DM: At the far end of the bar you see a handsome man. He is wearing worn leather armor. You sense he has high skill rating, strong Con and the Sensitivity Feat. 

Player: Awesome I walk up to him and use my Seduction feat to start up a converation.

(Now its a bit of gaming style... You could roleplay the conversation or...)

DM: You get him back to your room. Roll to see how much energy you raise. You get +2 for his high skill level and +4 for his feat.

Player: 10 + 2 + 4 = 16!

DM: Okay your tantric energy is fully charged. (Makes a secret roll - Oh no! A natural 20! Our hero has inadvertently caused her lover to become obsessed with her! DM thinks about how to work this into the adventure.)

I made all those numbers and feats and everything up - so don't look at them as examples of actual mechanics rather examples of what can be done with these kind of rules.

AV


----------



## S'mon (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *
> 
> (re will there be section dealing with rape/abuse in BoEF)
> 
> ...




- Well there aren't a ton of rules for sexual violence (AFAIK), but not including sexual violence in the Book of Erotic Fantasy seems very sensible - I don't think it fits any normal definition of 'erotic'.

So how much will be crunchy bits, and how much fluff?


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Stormprince said:
			
		

> *Actually, one of my big curiosities about this book, as it was on the BoVD when it was first announced, was on how it was going to deal with such topics as homosexuality and the like. If it's going to be covered, or if it's going to be demonized. And I'm not just talking about gay warrior societies, but also such things as lesbian cultures (Amazon, the Island of Lesbos...oh jeez, why do I have a feeling that I'm opening a can of worms here),
> 
> Looking at the images of the photographers website, it's obvious that the focus is going to be on "scantily/barely clad" women...so I'm already getting a rather skewed image of the artwork consisting almost 100% of scantily clad women...which limits the target audience of the book. Granted, that target audience is the largest percentage of gamers in the industry, but now a days, with more and more female and openly gay gamers, where's the love for the other sides?
> 
> Christopher *




We are working really really hard at being as inclusive as we can. Now that said we recognize that 90% (roughly) of our audeince will be straight males but... This book will assume that homosexuality is a legitimate option that some soceities will be against it but some will not. It will also take the same position on untraditional coupling. Male/female monogamy will not be *assumed* there will be the possiblity of gay marriages or extended marriages (more then two people). We will likely not go into great detail as alot of that is campaign setting material but the book will not *presume* heterosexual monogamy as the only norm. I guess we are taking a sort of "Star Trek" approach. These other races (dwarves, elves, halfling) really are *other*. Think of the diversity found in human culture - the diversity in the fantasy world should be as great or greater.

AV


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

caudor said:
			
		

> *My question isn't so much about book.  It appears to me that you are a busy busy person.
> 
> Do you ever get a chance now days just to sit down with a game and have some fun?
> 
> ...




One of the things that really bites about leaving WotC is that I was just about to start a new FR game.

AV


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *
> 1) Fully half of my roleplaying group is attracted to men. What will this book offer my group as a whole? *




There will definitely be some hunky male images. Not as many as women but definitely some. And some that are neither or both.

AV


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 4, 2003)

Okay break time for me...

If you get a chance please do move some of these question to the board at www.valarproject.com we have our own code of conduct but it is a bit looser then the one here so more pointed questions can be asked. Also you might find some of the answers there. The site was put together quickly so its a tad rough. But we'll get it there.

AV


----------



## seasong (May 4, 2003)

*Re: A Heads Up*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> If you use a third party browser (such as *iCab* for the Macintosh) be aware that Valar Projects uses forum software that is only compatible with the big two bloatbrowsers.



It is also compatible with Opera.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (May 4, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *
> 
> One of the things that really bites about leaving WotC is that I was just about to start a new FR game.
> 
> AV *




If this was a planned transion why were you planning on starting a new FR game.


----------



## ColonelHardisson (May 4, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Real name's Thomas Weigel .*




Any relation to Gene, by any chance?


----------



## GentleGiant (May 5, 2003)

*Take another look*

For those who want to take a peek at what kind of pictures Hypnox is doing for the book, visit his site again. On the front page there is a link to a page where you can see an female elf fighter - http://www.hypnox.com


----------



## seasong (May 5, 2003)

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> Any relation to Gene, by any chance?



At some point in our mutual family trees, I'm sure there's a connection. But other than that, I don't know him from Eve .


----------



## kenjib (May 5, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 1) That was the intention and BoVD is my model on alot of the things I am doing PR and marketing wise. Once again I am rethinking that strategy.
> *




Thanks for answering all of my questions!  While I really frown very strongly against such tactics, I must say that your honesty and candor has really impressed me.  I do still find it upsetting, though, that you would attempt to increase confusion, tension, and argument within the community so as to increase profit margin, but hey, I guess unfortunately it's standard practice in the media world.


----------



## RigaMortus (May 5, 2003)

1) How can I join or start a sect for the Church of the Blood Red Moon?

2) Will there be spells in your book such as "Detect Homosexual" or "Smite Homosexual" (and "Smite Hetrosexual" as well of course)?  Fiery Balls?  Summon Sex Slave?

3) Do you actually feel that there is a NEED for the Book of Erotic Fantasy?  Or that most campaigns seem to be lacking this type of information and that there is an actual desire for it?

4)  Have you done any market research about this topic before you decided to start the venture?  If so, care to share some facts (such as formal/informal polls you may done) with us?

PS - By formal/informal I mean (a) did you get a general opinion of your friends to see if they thought it was a good idea or (b) did you ask random gamers.  Hope my question is clear here...

5) One more question that I forgot to ask; going back to the whole cult/church thing.  What is with the name?  What does "Blood Red Moon" have to do with a bunch of people that want to learn about tantric sex (or whatever sex information you were trying to learn about).


----------



## Qlippoth (May 5, 2003)

*Planned? Amicable?*



			
				ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *
> Actually.. yes!
> 
> AV *




"It was a good game, both teams played hard"?


----------



## Shadowdancer (May 5, 2003)

psionotic said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Maybe I'm just a suspicious cynic, but after hearing those exact words, repeated over and over in the exact same way, I'm not so sure I believe them.
> 
> It kind of reminds me of Marc Anthony's burial speech in Julius Caesar, where he keeps referring to Cassius and Brutus by saying, "But these are all honorable men...", while of course meaning quite the opposite. *




Maybe for legal reasons, that's the only thing he CAN say -- publicly.


----------



## Dr. Harry (May 5, 2003)

Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yeah, after the second or third time, it struck me as an imposed legal response to the question.   *




While it may be possible to speculate on that response, it's really all we're going to get.  After all, it's a small industry.  Consider, altenatively, the case illustrated in another thread:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49862


----------



## Christian (May 5, 2003)

ValterraFromHome said:
			
		

> *There will definitely be some hunky male images. Not as many as women but definitely some. And some that are neither or both.*




'Neither or both.' Ah, the beauty of the marriage between fantasy and erotica ... It can be a uniquely disturbing beauty, but beauty nevertheless ...

(No questions, just felt like waxing rhapsodic.  )

[edit]Had to respond to Dr. H's sig ...

An old Texas cattleman finally laid down his burden one night. Waking up dead the next morning, he opens his eyes to see an endless vista of dry prairie, hot wind, and tumbleweeds. He gets up and walks for hours, until he finally sees the Great Gates in the distance. Approaching the gatekeeper, he says, "Say, St. Peter, I can't help but notice that Heaven looks just like Texas!" The reply: "Number one, I'm not Saint Peter, and number two, you obviously have no idea where you are!"[/edit]


----------



## wjc3 (May 5, 2003)

*Re: A Heads Up*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *If you use a third party browser (such as iCab for the Macintosh) be aware that Valar Projects uses forum software that is only compatible with the big two bloatbrowsers.
> 
> I just read and posted in those forums using Opera, and it worked fine.*


----------



## takyris (May 5, 2003)

Hey, a minor nitpick, and perhaps I'm wrong, but Seasong, is this the first sentence that you are calling passive?

"A generation of fantasy roleplaying game enthusiasts grew up wondering what the elf maiden looked like without those gauzy robes. "

That's actually not passive voice, by the definition with which I'm familiar.  Passive voice would have been saying... "It was wondered what the elf maiden would look like without the gauzy robes by a generation of fantasy roleplaying game enthusiasts."

It's arguably not the most direct hook into the story, but unless there are alternate definitions of passive voice, that ain't it.

-Tacky


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 5, 2003)

RigaMortus said:
			
		

> *1) How can I join or start a sect for the Church of the Blood Red Moon?
> 
> 2) Will there be spells in your book such as "Detect Homosexual" or "Smite Homosexual" (and "Smite Hetrosexual" as well of course)?  Fiery Balls?  Summon Sex Slave?
> 
> ...




1) It doesn't exist anymore so you'll have to start you're own.
2) I don't think any of those are on our list. 
3) I think some campaigns will *want* these rules. I don't any campaign *needs* these rules.
4) Most of the market research I have done is among other manufacturers. Many of them have told me that their audeince would likely be interested.
5) Like Valar its just a name. It had more to do with the founders and their personal symbology.

AV


----------



## alsih2o (May 5, 2003)

way off topic...was anyone at wotc or hasbro in on the inclusion of the players handbook in the GE commercial?


----------



## kenjib (May 5, 2003)

From your web site:



> Valar Project will also strive to hold itself to the highest of ethical corporate behavior. We are a privately held company so we can afford to be as honest and forthright as possible – both with our consumers and with those who work for us. We will try to remain dispassionate and objective about our work and ourselves and admit and repair mistakes when we make them. As we develop corporate statements, goals, ethics and beliefs we will make them available to the public for consideration and comment.




How does this honesty and forthrightness relate to a deliberately misleading/sensationalist press release - considering that the press release was effectively the company's inauguration into the rpg publishing world and is now the irrevocable first impression among the community?


----------



## alsih2o (May 5, 2003)

kenjib said:
			
		

> *
> How does this honesty and forthrightness relate to a deliberately misleading/sensationalist press release - considering that the press release was effectively the company's inauguration into the rpg publishing world and is now the irrevocable first impression among the community? *




 you couldn't have been a little more polite than "deliberately misleading" ????


----------



## kenjib (May 5, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *
> 
> you couldn't have been a little more polite than "deliberately misleading" ???? *




Here is what I'm referring to:



			
				kenjib said:
			
		

> *
> 1. Was this emphasis on the controversial aspects an intentional attempt to stir up free publicity by representing (only implicitly of course) the product as something more than it is? If so, was it done because of the possible beneficial effect this same type of marketting (whether intentional or not) had on sales of the Book of Vile Darkness?
> *






			
				Anthony Valterra said:
			
		

> *
> 1) That was the intention and BoVD is my model on alot of the things I am doing PR and marketing wise. Once again I am rethinking that strategy.
> *




Sorry about that.  I was honestly having trouble finding an accurate yet diplomatic phrase and I came up a bit short.

Anyway, I asked if it was intentionally implicitly representing the product as something more than it is.  Anthony confirmed.  I think that is valid criteria for "misleading," although I agree that another word would have been more tactful.


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 5, 2003)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *way off topic...was anyone at wotc or hasbro in on the inclusion of the players handbook in the GE commercial? *




Kate Ross (head legal counsel) and I worked with GE to make that happen. They came to us so we get only credit for being able to respond quickly.

AV


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 5, 2003)

kenjib said:
			
		

> *How does this honesty and forthrightness relate to a deliberately misleading/sensationalist press release - considering that the press release was effectively the company's inauguration into the rpg publishing world and is now the irrevocable first impression among the community? *




I hope it was sensationalist. It was meant to be sensationalist. As to misleading - it emphasised those aspects of the product that I felt would garner it the most attention. I don't feel that that is improper. Now, did I make errors in the press release? Yes, strategic and technical. But as I have said it was the first I have ever done and I am neither a writer nor a PR person (I did read an article which helped). So the honest part is that my press release was less then perfect. The forthright part is that I am willing to admit that - in public. I hope no one believes this is the last mistake that I or Valar Project will make but we will always try to own up to our errors and rectify them where possible. 

AV


----------



## Bendris Noulg (May 5, 2003)

When is your departure from WotC "official" (i.e., what day is your last day on the job)?


----------



## jdavis (May 6, 2003)

Haven't been able to root around the Valar website that much yet so I apologize if this question is covered there.

Does Valar have a mission statement or a company goal in regards to the general product line it will be creating? Will it all be adult content, will it all be erotic in nature or will it be a general game company with some adult niche products? I'm sure that would be hard to answer definitively with such a new company but I was just looking for some thoughts and ideas on what to expect  from the product line in general.

I find the idea of a adult product line intriguing and while the BoEF may not be very useful to my campaign more adult level material would be most welcome.


----------



## Numion (May 6, 2003)

Anthony Valterra said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Kate Ross (head legal counsel) and I worked with GE to make that happen. They came to us so we get only credit for being able to respond quickly.
> 
> AV *




Different times from T$R .. when Spielberg asked for a permission to use D&D in E.T (one of the most popular movies evar, or something), TSR asked money for it. Needless to say, it didn't happen. About the biggest product placement ad D&D could ever hope to have, wasted. 

Hmm... maybe it wasn't coincidence TSR went belly-up.


----------



## WisdomLikeSilence (May 6, 2003)

Mr. Valterra,

I don't have any particular feelings about TBEF, but I did want to express my appreciation for your willingness to come to the boards and discuss your project honestly and politely.

This sort of civilized dialogue is usually in painfully short supply.

Kudos - especially for your ability to take criticism without getting snarky.

-WLS


----------



## Truth Seeker (May 6, 2003)

*The Book\Author\Exposure.*

Well, in the 4 to 6 days ago, a book got noticed, and it is not even in print yet.

Confusing on who the author was, first a man, now a woman.

Excellent free advertisement in forums and web reporting.

All from one page.

No ad money spent, and I think they don't have to in the future.

A possible goof, a pot of pure luck, and pucker hearts in the mix.

Damn Anthony.....this had to be your plan along.

Maybe I can get my book out the same way.....THE DRAGON'S MATE GUIDE TO DRAGON PLAY. VERISON 101.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...........


----------



## Ancalagon (May 6, 2003)

Hello

I have to wonder a bit, what exactly did folks find offensive in those pictures?  Sure, I too was disturbed by the use of blood in some of the imagery.  But is anyone honestly thinking this book will feature people in bathtubs of blood?

So what was it?  What is the woman in a bath tub full of cheezies?  I thought that was cool!    Sure, there is a lot of naked and semi-naked folks, but what do you expect given the topic of the book?

Ancalagon


----------



## Snoweel (May 6, 2003)

Numion said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Different times from T$R .. when Spielberg asked for a permission to use D&D in E.T (one of the most popular movies evar, or something), TSR asked money for it. Needless to say, it didn't happen. *




I beg to differ.

I saw E.T. with my father and his wife right after I had "thrown my D&D books away and vowed to never play with the occult again"  which was shortly after he got out of prison with a head full of fundamentalism.

Anyways, I remember vividly the scane where the kids are having a session, because my dad broke into an anti-D&D tirade at myself and the TV.

I was tempted to stab him that night in his sleep, but who would've paid the rent?


----------



## Snoweel (May 6, 2003)

Ancalagon said:
			
		

> *Hello
> 
> I have to wonder a bit, what exactly did folks find offensive in those pictures?  Sure, I too was disturbed by the use of blood in some of the imagery.  But is anyone honestly thinking this book will feature people in bathtubs of blood?
> 
> So what was it?  What is the woman in a bath tub full of cheezies?  I thought that was cool!*




Yeah, but be honest with yourself, Anc.

You're a little bit wierder than the rest of us.


----------



## Numion (May 6, 2003)

Snoweel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> Anyways, I remember vividly the scane where the kids are having a session, because my dad broke into an anti-D&D tirade at myself and the TV.
> *




Yeah, but there are no actual D&D books shown.


----------



## dcas (May 6, 2003)

Numion said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Different times from T$R .. when Spielberg asked for a permission to use D&D in E.T (one of the most popular movies evar, or something), TSR asked money for it. Needless to say, it didn't happen. About the biggest product placement ad D&D could ever hope to have, wasted.
> 
> Hmm... maybe it wasn't coincidence TSR went belly-up. *




Gary has covered this in his Q&A. The reason that D&D was not featured by name in E.T. is because there was money on the table at the same time that the kids were playing a session. Gary thought that this would give the impression that D&D was some kind of gambling game, and when he asked Spielberg to clarify why the money was on the table he didn't get a response. So he nixed the idea.


----------



## Harlock (May 6, 2003)

dcas said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Gary has covered this in his Q&A. The reason that D&D was not featured by name in E.T. is because there was money on the table at the same time that the kids were playing a session. Gary thought that this would give the impression that D&D was some kind of gambling game, and when he asked Spielberg to clarify why the money was on the table he didn't get a response. So he nixed the idea. *




I'm pretty sure that wasn't gambling money, but rather the kitty for Mountain Dew and Pizza!  Drew Barrymore and D&D. MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!


----------



## Galaurum (May 6, 2003)

*Why controversy?*

I am truly baffled as to why the Book of Erotic Fantasy is such a controversy.  Seriously, folks--what's so shocking?  What's so wrong?  The Book of Vile Darkness caused some controversy, but not nearly as much as this.  It's ridiculous.  Really.

Firstly, the Book of Erotic Fantasy is OPTIONAL, just as any non-core rulebook is for D&D.  No one's forcing you to buy it!  No one is even making you LOOK at it.  You can continue gaming without having acknowledged its creation, if you're so inclined.

_But what if my gaming group brings it up_, you say?  Someone has already mentioned on this thread that they would not associate with people who got this book.  To me, this is as ludicrous as refusing to associate with someone of a different religion, race, or whatever.  I find it disappointing that the gaming community would willingly splinter itself on such a issue, especially when the only participants are those who are interested in the book in the first place.

Secondly, has the DM become a tyrannical figure?  I mean, if a Player has a serious problem with the presence of the BOEF in their game, the DM should respect their objection and honor it.  Any DM who does otherwise should be up for review, if they want to continue their role.  

The book is not a dirty magazine.  It's a rulebook.  Anybody who wants dirty-magazine kind of stuff isn't going to play D&D to get their jollies.  They'll get the magazine instead.

And to anyone opposing the BOEF on the grounds that it's against Christian morals: I would have you re-read the Bible.  I bear no animosity toward Christians--my parents, and much of my extended family are Christian--but, I've seen a complaint of "Oh, that's terrible!" too many times when their very own holy book contains plenty of sex and violence in itself.  And that's okay, too.  Besides, some of the best stories--Medea, Lysistrata, Apuleius' Metamorphosis (The Golden Asse), and Merlin--all had sex as a subject central to their plot.

Why is it that people who find it acceptable to play a game in which Necromancers are running around raising the dead, but one mention of 'sex' and the controversy is on?  For Pete's sake, you can play an *Assassin* in this game.  You can climb into a third story window of an unsuspecting, sleeping person, and cut their throat.  You can summon demons and devils from the D&D equivalent of Hell itself.  Why is sex more controversial?

I think it's wonderful that the gaming industry is building its library to a variety of audiences across all ages.  A lot of the focus of D&D has been the idea of customization.  Customizing abilities, customizing appearances, customizing items.  Well, here is just one of many new option for cutomizing the game itself: its tone, possibilities, and verisimilitude.  I think that's great.

My questions are a little different than the usual:

1) Those who are offended: truly, why?
2) To Wizards of the Coasts' having taken offense: why?

Those questions are intended to be rhetorical, but you may answer them if you like.  No one can stop you from finding something offensive, of course; but I'm just hoping that wondering about the "why?" of it all will help you at least reconsider.


----------



## dcas (May 6, 2003)

*Re: Why controversy?*



			
				Galaurum said:
			
		

> *And to anyone opposing the BOEF on the grounds that it's against Christian morals: I would have you re-read the Bible.  I bear no animosity toward Christians--my parents, and much of my extended family are Christian--but, I've seen a complaint of "Oh, that's terrible!" too many times when their very own holy book contains plenty of sex and violence in itself.*




Which is why the ancients prohibited laypeople from reading certain books from the Bible (especially the _Song of Songs_) until they reached a certain age (the customary age was 25).


----------



## Galaurum (May 6, 2003)

> Which is why the ancients prohibited laypeople from reading certain books from the Bible (especially the Song of Songs) until they reached a certain age (the customary age was 25).




True enough.  But, is such a prohibition in effect today?


----------



## Galaurum (May 6, 2003)

*BOEF's press release.*

I edited my first post and added a small bit to the end of the paragraph mentioning the Bible.  A few other thoughts I didn't mention in my first post:

It has been mentioned that the press release for the BOEF was poorly written.  I'm just getting into the issue, so it was only after I wrote that post that I first went to valarproject.com and read the press release.  Poorly written, some say?  I agree wholly.  While I think the Book itself is a great idea, its advertising is nearly shooting itself in the foot.  First of all, the phrase "Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game" is pretty misleading.  Is the Book really meant to create a Roleplaying Game whose purpose is devoted entirely to sexual roleplaying?  If so, then I've been misled so far.  If not, then I have the general idea right, but that phrase is misleading.

And presenting the book for the people who "fantasized about Arwen" or wondering about Conan, etc.?  That gives the impression that the book is for people who fantasize about sex--which is not *so* exclusionary, but might well be misconstrued for perverse-minded nymphomaniacs.  

As for the gaming group being college-age and up: well, I admit, I haven't exactly conducted my own polls.  But my friends were at least dabbling in D&D back in the sixth and seventh grades, if not getting into it.  Besides, is the goal here to present the idea that the entire gaming audience is already of adult age?  It seems better to offer it to the adult-aged members of the gaming group at large, regardless of demographics.

The final paragraph boasts the innovative imagery.  I think little needs to be said about the way that impresses upon readers.

So, the sum of the press release?
- A "Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game"?  A game ABOUT roleplaying sexual encounters?
- This books is targeted towards fantasizers.
- This book is targeted toward the audience whose demographics just happen to be college-age and up.  (Seriously, the same poll conducted by two parties with very different purposes will produce very different results.  Of COURSE Valarproject's results show that the demographics are college-age and up.) 
- Innovatively-realistic imagery.

That doesn't seem like a useful gaming supplement so much as a peep-show in rulebook disguise.

In light of reading this, I'm a little more sympathetic to those who were offended.  I still don't think that, once all things are considered, anybody SHOULD be offended.  But, I do sympathize in spite of that, now that I know what gave them the impressions they got.  I still support the Book of Erotic Fantasy.  

I read somewhere, however, that Wizards is so irritated that the Open Gaming License might be destroyed.  Does anyone have any details on this?


----------



## Dr. Harry (May 6, 2003)

*Re: Why controversy?*



			
				Galaurum said:
			
		

> * It's ridiculous.  Really. *




Your use of combative language right out of the gate makes we wonder if this is a troll.  Would you like to close this thread?  I'm sure there are plenty of things you could try and post directly that would do it.  I do admit that trying to move the thread into discussing personal religion/politics/philosphy is an effective way to get it closed, especially if the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you are "ridiculous", right off the bat.




			
				Galaurum said:
			
		

> * Someone has already mentioned on this thread that they would not associate with people who got this book.  *



*

I have not seen that posted, though I may well have missed it.  I have seen -amd advocated- the idea that one should choose one store over another depending on whether the first store chooses to carry material one considers offensive, while the second store does not.



			
				Galaurum said:
			
		


 Secondly, has the DM become a tyrannical figure?  

Click to expand...



But of course 

C'mon ... is this a troll?



			
				Galaurum said:
			
		


 The book is not a dirty magazine.  It's a rulebook.   

Click to expand...



"What it is" is only known through the press release, with (later) some posts from those involved.  I think these have justified most of the posts you seem to be reacting to.




			
				Galaurum said:
			
		


And to anyone opposing the BOEF on the grounds that it's against Christian morals: I would have you re-read the Bible.  I bear no animosity toward Christians--my parents, and much of my extended family are Christian--but, I've seen a complaint of "Oh, that's terrible!" too many times when their very own holy book contains plenty of sex and violence in itself.  And that's okay, too.

Click to expand...



The "But some of my best friends are xxx" cover.

I would recommend the you speak with some to get a range of reactions.  Please make sure you show them the press release, as well as a tour of the photographer's website, cited in the press release.

With regard to the content of the Bible, again, it is a matter of context.  I would say there is a certain range between, say, the Song of Solomon, and, say, the photos on the photographers web site.




			
				Galaurum said:
			
		


My questions are a little different than the usual:

1) Those who are offended: truly, why?
2) To Wizards of the Coasts' having taken offense: why?



Click to expand...



Again, moving this into a religious/political/philosophical discussion aimed at bringing forth the positions of individual posters will - I am fairly confident - get this yanked pretty quick.  Plus, if you cannot read all of these threads to get an idea of the wide of reasons for revulsion, I don't think it would do any good to restart it now.  There are plenty of posts in which this is discussed.*


----------



## Galaurum (May 6, 2003)

> Your use of combative language right out of the gate makes we wonder if this is a troll. Would you like to close this thread? I'm sure there are plenty of things you could try and post directly that would do it. I do admit that trying to move the thread into discussing personal religion/politics/philosphy is an effective way to get it closed, especially if the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you are "ridiculous", right off the bat.




Whoa ... getting a thread closed is the last thing I wanted.  I think the behavior is ridiculous, but I didn't start calling names or whatever.  If that's considered trolling, then I'm sorry, and I retract the statement.  Consider this a public apology.

The "DM becoming a tyrannical figure" is rhetorical.  I don't believe the DM has become anything like this.  The DM is in charge of the story, etc., but ultimately the DM exists to serve the players, and the reverse is kinda true too--in a kinda different way, but still.  For the most part, the whole arrangement is for mutual benefit.




> The "But some of my best friends are xxx" cover.
> I would recommend the you speak with some to get a range of reactions.
> 
> Please make sure you show them the press release, as well as a tour of the photographer's website, cited in the press release.
> ...




Whoa.  Not at all.  If the statement came off as a "cover," it wasn't my intention.

Yes, there is plenty of difference between the Bible and such photos.  And they serve totally different purposes--I know.  I was *not* comparing the Bible to pornography.  Pornography is gratuitous.  As I currently understand it, the BOEF is meant not as gratuitous pornography (though its advertising has me reconsidering....), but as a way to add a new dimension to gaming, with its own universe of possibilities.  If things are taken too far, then there will be more focus on Erotic Fantasy than Adventure, and that's bad.  However, adventures can involve complex romance as well as complex battles.  That, I think, is where the BOEF could come in handy.  



> Again, moving this into a religious/political/philosophical discussion aimed at bringing forth the positions of individual posters will - I am fairly confident - get this yanked pretty quick.




Then, I retract those quesitons, too.  Like I said, the last thing I wanted is to get any threads locked.

But honestly, isn't the entire purpose of a forum to "bring forth the positions of individual posters?"  I always thought that the way a forum works is that everyone puts forth their opinion on whatever subject, and after enough discussion, a consensus is reached.  Or not.  But even if no consensus is reached, then you've at least been exposed to a variety of viewpoints in reading, and you can use those to shape your thinking, and your future posts.

But that's just me, and if you're sure that going in that direction is bad, then I'll keep such ideas silent in the future.  But thank you for warning me about the thread.


----------



## dcas (May 6, 2003)

*Re: BOEF's press release.*



			
				Galaurum said:
			
		

> *I read somewhere, however, that Wizards is so irritated that the Open Gaming License might be destroyed.  Does anyone have any details on this? *




The OGL is "perpetual." (The D20 STL is not, but the BOEF is not being published under the D20 STL AFAICT.) Even if Wizards came out with a new version of the OGL that was not perpetual, third-party publishers would still be able to use a prior version of the OGL.

There are probably some things Wizards could do to gain better control over what third-party publishers do. Perhaps they could designate more stuff as Product Identity.


----------



## Zaruthustran (May 6, 2003)

<Conspiracy theory>

I find it interesting that AV said that he was upset that he was leaving WotC because he was just about to start a FR campaign.

I find it interesting that he didn't respond to the ENWorlder that first pointed this out.

</conspiracy theory>


"Planned transition" indeed. C'mon, the timing is too perfect. Someone at arch-conservative Hasbro got upset, and AV was asked to leave. 

That's fine for AV, but I'm worried that Hasbro will harbor even more ill will toward D&D. That's not fine for us.

-z


----------



## Dr. Harry (May 6, 2003)

Galaurum said:
			
		

> * Whoa ... getting a thread closed is the last thing I wanted.  I think the behavior is ridiculous, but I didn't start calling names or whatever.  If that's considered trolling, then I'm sorry, and I retract the statement.  Consider this a public apology..*




Sorry about that, then.  I still think that discussions that go into individual religious beliefs, political beliefs, or philosophical beliefs will get closed down pretty quickly.



			
				Galaurum said:
			
		

> * The "DM becoming a tyrannical figure" is rhetorical.  *




I tried to put in a smiley-face after that sentence.



			
				Galaurum said:
			
		

> * Yes, there is plenty of difference between the Bible and such photos.  And they serve totally different purposes--I know.  I was not comparing the Bible to pornography.  Pornography is gratuitous.  As I currently understand it, the BOEF is meant not as gratuitous pornography (though its advertising has me reconsidering....), but as a way to add a new dimension to gaming, with its own universe of possibilities.  If things are taken too far, then there will be more focus on Erotic Fantasy than Adventure, and that's bad.  However, adventures can involve complex romance as well as complex battles.  That, I think, is where the BOEF could come in handy.  *




We have several sources, some of which are providing contradictory information.  Starting from the press release, we will have a heavily photo-illustrated book (with *some* photos that are not nudes), by a photographer whose primary qualification (again, from the press release) is as a fetish photographer while Anthony Valterra's background in S&M is relavent enough to the material to be mentioned.  Most of the author posts, at least on these boards, seem to be backing away from that.




			
				Galaurum said:
			
		

> * But honestly, isn't the entire purpose of a forum to "bring forth the positions of individual posters?"  I always thought that the way a forum works is that everyone puts forth their opinion on whatever subject, and after enough discussion, a consensus is reached.  Or not.  But even if no consensus is reached, then you've at least been exposed to a variety of viewpoints in reading, and you can use those to shape your thinking, and your future posts.*




Quite true, but as this is a moderated board, we accept certain topic-specific limits to keep focused on the gaming material.  Treading carefully near the hot-button issues (religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin) helps keep tempers in check.  

I have felt at some times that the moderators were "quick on the draw" to shut down a thread, but, it is their board and ya don't argue balls and strikes with the umpire.  

I agree with your outlook as written in the last paragraph, and I could explain why I won't be getting it, or hoping to see it in my FLGS, but I get the idea that discussing the philosophical reasoning *here* would be crossing an ENWorld line.


----------



## jdavis (May 6, 2003)

!. Leave the bible out please, it's against the rules, not important, and is way too touchy a subject.

2. Lets not fight it out here, they will shut it down ( I ran my mouth in another thread last night and they yanked it immediately, By the way I am terribly sorry I allowed myself to get dragged into that and I apologize for not self editing).

3. This is the thread for questions to AV about the product not for our discussion of it.

4. Yes people did say they would kick people out of their group and or not associate with them if they brought the book up in game, (in other threads I haven't seen that in this thread). That's a discussion for one of the other threads though, I really don't want to see this thread get closed as it is the best source for accurate information on this book we have here at EN world.


----------



## Anthony Valterra (May 6, 2003)

Bendris Noulg said:
			
		

> *When is your departure from WotC "official" (i.e., what day is your last day on the job)? *




This coming Friday.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 6, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *Haven't been able to root around the Valar website that much yet so I apologize if this question is covered there.
> 
> Does Valar have a mission statement or a company goal in regards to the general product line it will be creating? Will it all be adult content, will it all be erotic in nature or will it be a general game company with some adult niche products? I'm sure that would be hard to answer definitively with such a new company but I was just looking for some thoughts and ideas on what to expect  from the product line in general.
> 
> I find the idea of a adult product line intriguing and while the BoEF may not be very useful to my campaign more adult level material would be most welcome. *




It is still a bit in flux but currently our goal is to provide adult content RPG material. Not just erotic. We are taking suggestions for future products at the site. Which should be functioning better today.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 6, 2003)

WisdomLikeSilence said:
			
		

> *Mr. Valterra,
> 
> I don't have any particular feelings about TBEF, but I did want to express my appreciation for your willingness to come to the boards and discuss your project honestly and politely.
> 
> ...




Well when your as flawed as I am you need to learn to take criticism well.

AV


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## Wayside (May 6, 2003)

*Re: Re: Why controversy?*



			
				Dr. Harry said:
			
		

> *
> I would recommend the you speak with some to get a range of reactions.  Please make sure you show them the press release, as well as a tour of the photographer's website, cited in the press release.
> *




[This was not addressed to me but] I did just that.  Only 9 or so of my friends actually game, so I showed this to some of the other ones.  Not because I wanted their opinion or anything, but I personally liked the photographer's website.

Here's a direct quote from one person on how she felt about hypnox.com:

"This site is #!%@ing amazing! How in the world did you find it? Some of these are just stunning, incredible."

So, there you have it; everyone I showed it to felt similarly inspired, and 3/4's of them were girls so..

..good pick in our opinions AV.


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## KingOfChaos (May 6, 2003)

My only question..

This isn't going to be F.A.T.A.L. for D20 is it?  We aren't going to have rules for hymen resistance or anything like that, right?


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## jdavis (May 6, 2003)

Anthony Valterra said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It is still a bit in flux but currently our goal is to provide adult content RPG material. Not just erotic. We are taking suggestions for future products at the site. Which should be functioning better today.
> 
> AV *




I do intend to check out the website, just as soon as I get this semester taken care of (quit your job go back to school, master's classes are easy, now I'm a 33 year old college student, fun fun fun).


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## Gothmog (May 7, 2003)

Hi Anthony,

I also wanted to say good luck with this venture, and I hope Valar is successful. It is high time someone takes a more mature look at themes in D&D.

Something did occur to me though that I thought might merit asking. Does your company plan to release a series of "mature" themed products? If so, is there any chance we might see "mature" adventures? And is there a chance that the BoVD might be put in the SRD so other companies could use ideas contained therein? Personally, I'd love to see a series of supplements/adventures that draw upon the BoEF and BoVD (maybe something that takes characters from 1st-15th level or so), full of intrigue, political/religious mechanations, and mature themes.

Thanks for your time,


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## KingOfChaos (May 7, 2003)

Hmm

Some of you guys are acting like Valar and WOTC are the only companies that have touched on the mature theme. Which really isn't true.  Green Ronin specifically has done some pretty dark books and all the books by my company will be mature themed.


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## Snoweel (May 7, 2003)

*Re: Why controversy?*



> I bear no animosity toward Christians--my parents, and much of my extended family are Christian[/B]




*LOL!!!!!!

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Dude, is the second statement supposed to qualify the first?!?!?!?

In mine (and dare I say it, most people's) experience, these two statements are mutually exclusive.

That's a bad, bad, bad argument, mate. If most of your family are Christian and you're not, chances are that your first statement: "I bear no animosity toward Christians", is false.

Not denying your right to bear animosity toward members of a religion, but be honest.

With us *and* yourself.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


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## William Ronald (May 7, 2003)

I think it might be wise to cut out the religious discussion and the questions about the family life of posters.  No need to risk getting people angry, or annoying the moderators.

So, far, I think this thread has been much calmer than some of the others.

Now for some questions for Anthony Valterra and any other representatives of the Valar Project:

1)How long have you thought of creating a book like the BoEF, and what lead to that decision?

2)You mentioned that different races and cultures could well have different attitudes towards sexual practices.  Do you think that different sexual practices/family structures for different races are one of the strong points of the book.  (In human societies, a large range of sexual practices and family structures have been noted by sociologists and other observers.)

3)Will future Valar Project releases try to show different ways  to differentiate human and non-human cultures.  (Political structures, economics, laws, rituals, et cetera.)  I have long thought that having diverse societies in a campaign setting tends to add to the flavor and realism of a setting.  

4)Does the Valar Project plan to produce a campaign setting?

5)Any planned releases beyone the BoEF for late 2003 or early 2004?


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## Snoweel (May 7, 2003)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> *I think it might be wise to cut out the religious discussion and the questions about the family life of posters.  No need to risk getting people angry, or annoying the moderators.
> *




Damn!

Why didn't I think of that before I posted?  

Sorry mom.

It'll never happen again...


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## Piratecat (May 7, 2003)

Thanks, William. No religious discussion, please. C'mon, Snoweel - you know better.


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## Snoweel (May 7, 2003)

It's not so much religious discussion, PC, but social commentary.

Just calling it as I see it.

Personally I couldn't care less how people feel about certain religions. You know me.


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## SemperJase (May 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Why controversy?*



			
				Wayside said:
			
		

> *
> "This site is #!%@ing amazing! How in the world did you find it? Some of these are just stunning, incredible."
> *




I don't see it. The lighting isn't all that intriguing, the composition is awkward and the nudity is just...there.
But then again, that's just my take on it.


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## Anthony Valterra (May 7, 2003)

KingOfChaos said:
			
		

> *My only question..
> 
> This isn't going to be F.A.T.A.L. for D20 is it?  We aren't going to have rules for hymen resistance or anything like that, right? *




Gag! No! And no penis size or breast size tables either. Bleah!

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 7, 2003)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> *I think it might be wise to cut out the religious discussion and the questions about the family life of posters.  No need to risk getting people angry, or annoying the moderators.
> 
> So, far, I think this thread has been much calmer than some of the others.
> 
> ...




1) Well "thought" about it for a long time. Even back when Ryan Dancey was still in charge. But actually took the initiative to begin seeing if it was a possibility last December.
2) You should probably adress this question to Gwen but generally you are on the right track.
3) I don't honestly know - depends on how this book does.
4) I really really want to. Once again depending on what happens with BoEF.
5) nothing currently planned.

Anyone who wants to help this product out can do so by going to their local book, comic or game store and urging the retaielr to carry BoEF. If the retailer doesn't know what distributor to ask tell them to call Diamond/Alliance.

AV


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## Staffan (May 7, 2003)

Anthony Valterra said:
			
		

> *Gag! No! And no penis size or breast size tables either. Bleah!
> *



Breast size, for those interested, will likely be covered in Mongoose's upcoming Macho Women With Guns d20. At least if they're going to make it like the original game.


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## Snoweel (May 7, 2003)

Staffan said:
			
		

> *
> Breast size, for those interested, will likely be covered in Mongoose's upcoming Macho Women With Guns d20. At least if they're going to make it like the original game. *




Does that mean they'll stick with the old formula for areolae diameter?

(CON+CHA)/9 inches diameter.

I mean, it doesn't mesh well with the d20 system, but it's such a sacred cow... Imagine the outcry if they changed it!!!!


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## Staffan (May 7, 2003)

In the original MWWG RPG, bust size is equal to the Looks stat times 3 in inches, or times 4 if you have the "Topheavy" disadvantage (which gives you problems leaning forward unless supported, as well as increase the chance of being hit in the chest). An "average" is 10, with 18 being described as "Godlike" and 19 as "Godesslike".


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## Voadam (May 7, 2003)

Anthony Valterra said:
			
		

> *
> 
> This coming Friday.
> 
> AV *




Any word on who will be taking over your position as the WotC info guy.

BTW best of luck in your new endeavors.


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## The Little Raven (May 7, 2003)

Why is this book so controversial? Sex is natural. Why should some of the most basic desires of the human body be controversial?

Hustler says it best...

Relax... it's just sex.


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## Kestrel (May 7, 2003)

Hehe...too bad the rest of the world can't see it that way Mourn.


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## Joseph Elric Smith (May 7, 2003)

Mourn said:
			
		

> *Why is this book so controversial? Sex is natural. Why should some of the most basic desires of the human body be controversial?
> 
> Hustler says it best...
> 
> Relax... it's just sex. *



but there is a difference between sex, procreation, fetish, and erotica..
Ken


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## The Little Raven (May 8, 2003)

Joseph Elric Smith said:
			
		

> *
> but there is a difference between sex, procreation, fetish, and erotica..
> Ken *




Not particularly.

Sex is merely the act by which we procreate. Fetish and erotica are sexual aids, to enhance the pleasure gained from sex.

I've dabbled in them, but I'm nowhere near the sexual independent that Anthony is. However, I still see no reason for this to be considered taboo.

For such a "progressive" country, we are certainly archaic and narrow-minded when it comes to the oldest form of interaction between two people.


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## La Bete (May 8, 2003)

Aaaaaaaarg!!!!!

Not to sound grumpy, but could we keep this on topic?

As in Q&A with Anthony Valterra?

Posts to-ing and fro-ing about what peoples individual attitude towards sex/p0rn/fetshes/cultural norms, etc, etc, etc are what led to all the other threads on the BoEF being closed....

AV: My congratulations to you on surviving (so far) a rather torrid baptism of fire with your new product. Good luck.

Cheers


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## Wayside (May 8, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Why controversy?*



			
				SemperJase said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't see it. The lighting isn't all that intriguing, the composition is awkward and the nudity is just...there.
> But then again, that's just my take on it. *




Heaven forbid nudity should be anything but just there.  Anyway, for what it's worth, I showed the page to one professional photographer, who again thought _some_ of the pictures were amazing.  I imagine you didn't look through them all (there are a few hundred up, many of which are tired, while, again, some are great), but if you did then I suppose your view speaks to a fundamental difference in outlook between the average resident of California and that of Colorado  .


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## jdavis (May 8, 2003)

La Bete said:
			
		

> *Aaaaaaaarg!!!!!
> 
> Not to sound grumpy, but could we keep this on topic?
> 
> ...




Yes start a new thread to discuss this stuff in, I'll be happy to join in .....till it gets out of hand and gets shut down again, but please stay on topic in this thread so it doesn't get closed. This is questions for Anthony Valterra not what I believe 101. THere have been a half dozen threads in the last week to discuss the other stuff in, this one is for Q&A.


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## Truth Seeker (May 8, 2003)

*Close the deal......*

To Anthony and all discussers.......

Lets' wrap this up...please, honestly, the furor has come and gone.

Just talking about it now.....is dragging, sorry for the negative 'talk', but there is so much can be say on one book, so much can be ask on specifics. After all this....no matter what, who says what in the postive or negative.

The book will be printed, and it will sell,  that's the bottom line.

Everyone can agree on that, right?

Like I said before, in many other posts, I will buy it, look, and put away.

That is plain truth.

How much more of the truth can be dragged?


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## Anthony Valterra (May 8, 2003)

Voadam said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Any word on who will be taking over your position as the WotC info guy.
> 
> BTW best of luck in your new endeavors. *




No idea.

AV


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## Anthony Valterra (May 8, 2003)

Folks,
Unless there are more questions I'm willing to call this a wrap. I have had numerous interview requests from a number of website and magazines so you will undoubtedly see more from me in the coming months. Also please feel free to ask the more prickly questions at our website www.valarproject.com.

I want to say thank-you to all invloved in this discussion. Its ability to stay rationale and reasonable proves my thesis that gamers are mature adults who can interact with each other in a conscious and sensitive manner.

AV


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## Mirth (May 8, 2003)

Anthony Valterra said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> Unless there are more questions I'm willing to call this a wrap. I have had numerous interview requests from a number of website and magazines so you will undoubtedly see more from me in the coming months. Also please feel free to ask the more prickly questions at our website www.valarproject.com.
> 
> I want to say thank-you to all invloved in this discussion. Its ability to stay rationale and reasonable proves my thesis that gamers are mature adults who can interact with each other in a conscious and sensitive manner.
> ...




Actually, it's www.valarprojects.com. That's twice you've gotten it wrong, but I'm not gonna hold it against ya


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## Harlock (May 8, 2003)

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Actually, it's www.valarprojects.com. That's twice you've gotten it wrong, but I'm not gonna hold it against ya  *




actually project and projects both work, so he's not wrong, but I'm sure he won't hold it against you.


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## Henry (May 8, 2003)

Speaking of Wrapping things...

I'm going to take Anthony's hint and wrap this thread up. 

Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for the reason, kindness, and patience that has marked this thread. 

As usual, you people are awesome. 

Any further comments to Anthony will be better served being addressed to his e-mail, or to the Valar Projects Forum at www.valarprojects.com .

Henry


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