# What will D&D 6th edition be like?



## Rafael Martin

Look, a 6th edition of *D&D* is _inevitable_, so what do you think it will be like?  Will it be a radical change in the game like 4th edition was?  Or will it be a return to more tradition D&D like 5th edition was?  I really want to know you all think.  Please proceed...


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## ad_hoc

We will plug into the matrix to have a communal virtual reality experience. 

AI will take over the role as DM.


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## atanakar

It will be an all-on-line game with all the widgets like dice roller and axonometric views of the floor plans. No pdf, and no physical books. Modules will have extra levels you need to pay extra cash to open up. Fun times!


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## ad_hoc

(also probably best to do a search. There have been at least 10 of these threads)


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## Panda-s1

idk I'd imagine at this point it'd be like the transition between the 2 AD&D editions. dropping extraneous baggage, probably trying to fix some of the problem spots as well (saving throws, bad subclasses, the old ranger). I want them to just make a 5.5 and be done with it, but the fact they seem reluctant to outright "fix" ranger always bothered me.

not sure why people say that it would go all digital, d&d seems to be thriving on the idea of getting together with people irl to play. then again I'm pretty sure the same people also ignore the rise in board games and insist people only play video games anymore


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## NotAYakk

We don't know what 6th edition D&D will play like.

But 7th edition will be played with clubs and rocks.


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## ad_hoc

Panda-s1 said:


> idk I'd imagine at this point it'd be like the transition between the 2 AD&D editions. dropping extraneous baggage, probably trying to fix some of the problem spots as well (saving throws, bad subclasses, the old ranger). I want them to just make a 5.5 and be done with it, but the fact they seem reluctant to outright "fix" ranger always bothered me.
> 
> not sure why people say that it would go all digital, d&d seems to be thriving on the idea of getting together with people irl to play. then again I'm pretty sure the same people also ignore the rise in board games and insist people only play video games anymore




The joke is that by the time 6th edition comes around there won't even be any trees left.


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## ad_hoc

NotAYakk said:


> We don't know what 6th edition D&D will play like.
> 
> But 7th edition will be played with clubs and rocks.




6th edition will be virtual reality.

7th edition will occur after the apocalypse.

Sounds right.


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## dave2008

Versions of this thread of been posted several times already.  If you are interested you might want to look a those.  I imagine people are a bit tired of posting about it at this point.


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## J-H

If WOTC is smart, it'll be a long time coming.  The 3.5->4e transition was a disaster, and 5th edition seems to be very popular with simple mechanics.  It'd take a lot of work to convince me to move to another system that had a lot more fiddly bits and +1s and -1s to track at the table.

The answer to "What will 6e be like?" is going to be driven by the answer to the question "What market(s) is 5e under-serving that will generate additional revenue and enthusiasm, sufficient to outweigh the existing recurring revenue from the successful 5e product that would then be sunset and stop generating cashflow?"

Based on 4e's reputation, the answer back then may have been "Video gamers and MMO players."  5e's answer was "People who want a more traditional feel, combined with gameplay that is fast and simple to run."  

I think the slow release of splatbooks, combined with the (new?) recurring revenue streams from the DM's Guild, Adventurers League, and various media endeavors, represents a conservative approach that will see 5e last a long time without growing stale.


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## Panda-s1

NotAYakk said:


> We don't know what 6th edition D&D will play like.
> 
> But 7th edition will be played with clubs and rocks.



stone age default setting. a return to 4 classes: club-haver, guy with sparky rock and stick, guy with bitter plant that make you not sick, sneaky rock thrower.


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## Tyler Do'Urden

NotAYakk said:


> We don't know what 6th edition D&D will play like.
> 
> But 7th edition will be played with clubs and rocks.




So just like when we were kids!


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## CleverNickName

It will look completely different.
Because it will be year 2387, and everyone will have bionic eyes.


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## Oofta

Rafael Martin said:


> Look, a 6th edition of *D&D* is _inevitable_, so what do you think it will be like?



Death and taxes are inevitable.  A 6th edition?  Not So much.


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## LuisCarlos17f

It is too soon to talk about 6th reason, because the candence is slow, lots of titles haven't published yet, and the plans for the brand are multimedia. This means they are going to worry more about movies, teleserie and videogames what the printed books. 

The experencie has tought them the best way to get new players is with simple rules. 

Maybe the plans for a future d20 system is to be simple, but enough modular and flexible to allow different genres, even space opera and superheroes, but with a right balance of power. 

But I dare to suggest they are going to get the idea from Pathfinder 2 where some racial traits can be replaced by optional racial feats.


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## Ace

I am with LuisCarlos 17f . The rate of production and the general popularity of 5E suggest it will have a long life, maybe longer than that of 2e which lasted more than a  decade.

I suspect whatever comes next in five years or so  will reflect gaming trends of the time, if the hobby shifts back to complex rules than 6E will get more complex. I do think it won't get much less complex, D&D won't become too narrative driven otherwise it risks the sales problem 4E had, good game but "not D&D"


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## TwoSix

I think the 5e core is going to be generational, lasting at least into the 2030s.  I could see something like a republishing of the PHB with some modified classes and races, but it would still be the same power level and the underlying mechanics are 5.0.  (Call it a 5.1.)


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## Arilyn

Oofta said:


> Death and taxes are inevitable.  A 6th edition?  Not So much.



I think a 6e will happen, but probably a ways off. Eventually, sales will slip and WOTC will want a shiny new edition to rekindle excitement. Or maybe something awful will happen at Hasbro, and D&D will be bought by someone else. Nothing stays the same. 

If 6e is not too far off, I think archetypes will be changed so all classes adopt one at same level. I think we might see fewer spell casting classes. Bonds, traits, etc. will be cleaned up and integrated more into system. Stats tinkered with so they are more balanced, saves going back to will, fortitude and reflex, or something similar and getting rid of tool proficiencies (having tool and skill separated is cludgy.) 

If a new edition is far down the road, then who knows? It could end up radically different because gaming tastes change.


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## tetrasodium

Rafael Martin said:


> Look, a 6th edition of *D&D* is _inevitable_, so what do you think it will be like?  Will it be a radical change in the game like 4th edition was?  Or will it be a return to more tradition D&D like 5th edition was?  I really want to know you all think.  Please proceed...



5.25/5.5 will probably dialback some of the overly streamlined/simplified areas a notch or two & be named something like d&d $adjective or D&d $verb _possibly_ with some more complete & fleshed out inclusion of stuff like dmg242 "success at a cost" baked into the system.  It will probably be almost if not entirely compatible with 5e stuff with little if any rejiggering needed to convert.

sixth will no doubt be a _long _way off; but with the release of pf2 wotc might feel some pressure.

edit:  As others have said, there are probably dozens of these threads


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## HarbingerX

Given how the 5e core books are still selling very well, there is little chance for a 6e any time soon. They also are being very careful not to oversaturate the rules space, so there is little need to 'fix' anything done so far. At most, I'd guess they'll do a 10th anniversary edition of 5e that includes some of the UA added sub-classes. Until then, they will continue to push D&D's brand into more IP; no need for new rules to do that.


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## TwoSix

Actually, my guess is that the next version of D&D will be Star Wars D&D.  Same 5e system (levels, hp, 6 stats, proficiency bonus, action economy and combat rules), but new classes, species, equipment, and a "Force system".  Adapt the Saltmarsh naval rules for space combat.


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## The Crimson Binome

Given the trajectory, I expect a fully narrative game, chock full of dissociative mechanics and powered primarily through metagame currency.


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## Arilyn

Saelorn said:


> Given the trajectory, I expect a fully narrative game, chock full of dissociative mechanics and powered primarily through metagame currency.



Can't wait!


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## LuisCarlos17f

My opinion is the next edition will be more like a 5.1 or 5.2. Maybe they allow something like the concept of archetypes from Pathfinder, where some class features are replaced with other. The Gladiator class from Dark Sun would be like first archetype in D&D.

Maybe the samurai, the ninja and shadow assassin are remade as martial adept class, classes with martial maneuvers (Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords). The totemist class from Magic of Incarnum recycled as shaman. And the warlock with the option to use vestige pact magic.

But this updated or revised version will be after years of D&D videogames, because gamers are more "hardcore" than roleplayers when it is about to find weak points in the crunch for munchkins.

Other option is to use a new game with a different name to test new ideas for d20, for example a different list of abilities scores to be more universal, easier for adaptatations from other game systems.

My own suggestion is to add two new abilities scores: acuity (astuteness + perception) and spirit (luck/fate/karma/divine grace/guardian angel + faith/hope/courage + composure)


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## TwoSix

Saelorn said:


> Given the trajectory, I expect a fully narrative game, chock full of dissociative mechanics and powered primarily through metagame currency.



We should be so lucky.


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## MonkeezOnFire

I predict that once 5e slows down that the next edition will be able to get a bit more complex in terms of options while streamlining some sticking points of 5e:

-More alternate class features like we saw in UA to customize builds
-Adopt some form of Pathfinder 2e's 3 action economy where every action uses a universal currency in varying amounts (ie. no more bonus actions, free actions, item interactions). 
-Codifed rules for concealment and stealth
-Assumed number of encounters per day reduced to 4-5. 
-Drop codified verbal and somatic components. All magic requires a focus in hand and unless you have an overriding feature is obvious when performed. 
-Alignment is present but even less emphasized so that not even magic items have alignment requirements


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## slobster

TwoSix said:


> Actually, my guess is that the next version of D&D will be Star Wars D&D.  Same 5e system (levels, hp, 6 stats, proficiency bonus, action economy and combat rules), but new classes, species, equipment, and a "Force system".  Adapt the Saltmarsh naval rules for space combat.



I'm expecting this as well, especially with the announcement that Disney allowed the license for the current publisher of Star Wars RPGs to lapse, and that Hasbro is expecting Star Wars merchandise to be a bigger contributor to sales in 2020. 

Still highly speculative, but enough pins in my wall for me to start connecting dots with little red pieces of string.


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## Zardnaar

More of a 5.5. 

Overhauled classes and feats. 

Streamlining and clarification.

Tweaked spells

Expected encounters 4-5, 1 short rest

Archetypes level 1 perhaps

 They're not going to do drastic changes to a popular edition.


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## TwoSix

slobster said:


> I'm expecting this as well, especially with the announcement that Disney allowed the license for the current publisher of Star Wars RPGs to lapse, and that Hasbro is expecting Star Wars merchandise to be a bigger contributor to sales in 2020.
> 
> Still highly speculative, but enough pins in my wall for me to start connecting dots with little red pieces of string.



If that works, I might expect to see combined setting books/PHBs in a few years.


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## LuisCarlos17f

My suggestion for a future Star Wars RPG is allowing alternate timelines. Then the SW fans would say... "I am going to tell the story in the way I would like". In the TTRPG the players are who choose what is the right canon.


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## slobster

TwoSix said:


> If that works, I might expect to see combined setting books/PHBs in a few years.



It would also be kind of cool, because I already think Rebels (the animated Star Wars show) did a lot to show what an ensemble Star Wars adventure would look like, one that acts more like a D&D party than the main characters of the movies ever did. A time period source book that used the art style and vibe of the Rebels show would be a lot of fun.

But this is getting off topic...as to the OP, I'm hoping 6E is a long way off. I don't imagine WotC seriously moving in that direction until sales drop off substantially, and so far that seems not to be happening.

knock on wood!


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## The Crimson Binome

TwoSix said:


> We should be so lucky.



Burning everything to the ground would make it much easier to rebuild afterward. I would sincerely hope that 6E is the worst edition of all, because then they might actually get serious when it comes to 7E.


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## ad_hoc

Arilyn said:


> I think a 6e will happen, but probably a ways off. Eventually, sales will slip and WOTC will want a shiny new edition to rekindle excitement. Or maybe something awful will happen at Hasbro, and D&D will be bought by someone else. Nothing stays the same.




2019 was D&D's best sales year ever.

I just don't see sales slipping far enough to warrant a new edition at any reasonable time in the future to even speculate on it.


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## Sorcerers Apprentice

6th edition will probably be designed to address whatever issues that made 5th edition stop selling. Since 5e sales show no sign of slowing down, it's hard to imagine what problem 6e will be intended to solve, and thus we can't predict what it will look like.


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## Sacrosanct

All your answers will be found here:


*6E When?*
*6e, how would you sort the classes/sub-classs?*
*What Improvements Would You Want with 6E?*
*5 year AAR/Lessons learned*
*Pick one major theme from a previous edition that you want in 6e*
*Interested in new dragon designs for 5e (5.5e or 6e)**?*
*What should we do with the Seventh Edition?*
*D&D 6th edition - What do you want to see?*
*6e? Why?*


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## Don Durito

Purple.  It will be purple.


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## Krachek

I contest the state inevitable for 6th.
and more, 5ed don’t even exist in the world of Wotc, it is simply Dnd.
my best take would be a 100% compatible revamp of the phb, nothing more,


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## cmad1977

Basically the same with the removal of some technical debt.


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## Arilyn

ad_hoc said:


> 2019 was D&D's best sales year ever.
> 
> I just don't see sales slipping far enough to warrant a new edition at any reasonable time in the future to even speculate on it.



Oh yes, it's probably a long ways off,  and the odds of us guessing what it'll look like is pretty slim. But fun to speculate.


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## jgsugden

Rafael Martin said:


> Look, a 6th edition of *D&D* is _inevitable_, so what do you think it will be like?  Will it be a radical change in the game like 4th edition was?  Or will it be a return to more tradition D&D like 5th edition was?  I really want to know you all think.  Please proceed...



6E is to 5E as this thread is to every other friggin "What will 6E be like" thread.

We're not particularly close to 6E.  Don't be in a rush.


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## Minigiant

Like 5e but with more alternate class features at the start. The PHB will have a streamlinedpist of spells and a 4th and 5th core book with contain most of the magic.


*Player's Handbook  -* PC info and core iconic spells
*Dungeon Master's Guide*- DM and core iconic magic items and traps
*Monster Manual*- Monsters
*Spellcaster Tom*e- All the other spells. Categorized by genre and class.
*Ledger of Loot*- All the other magic items. Finally magical polearms.


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## Panda-s1

Sorcerers Apprentice said:


> 6th edition will probably be designed to address whatever issues that made 5th edition stop selling. Since 5e sales show no sign of slowing down, it's hard to imagine what problem 6e will be intended to solve, and thus we can't predict what it will look like.



iirc this didn't stop them from making 3.5 so ¯\*_*(ツ)*_*/¯


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## jgsugden

Panda-s1 said:


> iirc this didn't stop them from making 3.5 so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



3E came out in 2000. 3.5 was 2003, 3 years later.  Between that time they released a lot of books including an Epic Level Handbook, a Psionics book, and a plethora of class books.  

5E came out in 2014.  6 years later and no revision to the edition has been announced.  We have had psionics teased, but not released.  There has been very little discussion of epic level (above 20) play.  The number of boks released in 6 years is a fraction of what we saw between the release of 3E and the release of 3.5.

So.... what exactly makes you think 3E to 3.5 is the template they're following?


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## Don Durito

Panda-s1 said:


> iirc this didn't stop them from making 3.5 so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



3.5 created an awful lot of bad will and while the edition would go on for a long time from then on, it definitely felt like there were serious repercussions - the D20 bubble burst, a lot 3rd party publishers moved out of support for the system, opinions became more divisive about the game online etc.

Not a good move to do again, at least not until there's a serious and clear desire among fans for a revision (which _will _happen eventually).


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## Panda-s1

jgsugden said:


> 3E came out in 2000. 3.5 was 2003, 3 years later.  Between that time they released a lot of books including an Epic Level Handbook, a Psionics book, and a plethora of class books.
> 
> 5E came out in 2014.  6 years later and no revision to the edition has been announced.  We have had psionics teased, but not released.  There has been very little discussion of epic level (above 20) play.  The number of boks released in 6 years is a fraction of what we saw between the release of 3E and the release of 3.5.
> 
> So.... what exactly makes you think 3E to 3.5 is the template they're following?



I don't, I'm just saying slowdown wasn't a precipitory event for 3.5, there is precedent against this line of thought.


Don Durito said:


> 3.5 created an awful lot of bad will and while the edition would go on for a long time from then on, it definitely felt like there were serious repercussions - the D20 bubble burst, a lot 3rd party publishers moved out of support for the system, opinions became more divisive about the game online etc.
> 
> Not a good move to do again, at least not until there's a serious and clear desire among fans for a revision (which _will _happen eventually).



oh I know, I wasn't there for it, but I also understand 3.0 had a lot of broken ideas that needed to be fixed. I was there when they sort of did it with Essentials, which I personally felt was 2 years too late :/


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## Prakriti

I still want to know what 3rd Edition will look like.

It's lonely here in 1996.


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## Mistwell

Rafael Martin said:


> Look, a 6th edition of *D&D* is _inevitable_





Or it's not and 5e will be evergreen and change over time as 5e rather than as a new edition.


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## Zardnaar

Mistwell said:


> Or it's not and 5e will be evergreen and change over time as 5e rather than as a new edition.




 Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?


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## Mistwell

Zardnaar said:


> Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?




Wanna not be a dick?


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## Minigiant

Mistwell said:


> Or it's not and 5e will be evergreen and change over time as 5e rather than as a new edition.




I doubt that
5e is good but it isn't neither close enough to perfect nor modular enough to go on forever.
It's almost 5 years and it's not at the state it would need to be to stay evergreen.


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## Mistwell

Minigiant said:


> I doubt that
> 5e is good but it isn't neither close enough to perfect nor modular enough to go on forever.
> It's almost 5 years and it's not at the state it would need to be to stay evergreen.




Almost 5 years? D&D 5e came out in July 2014. It's selling more now than the day it was released and has increased in popularity every one of those 6 years. I can see arguing you don't think it's good enough, but I can't see arguing there is some modularity or readiness state that it's failing to achieve such that it would be a barrier to remaining evergreen. In fact I think the modular issue went out the window in year 1 for an overwhelming majority of D&D players.


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## Panda-s1

Prakriti said:


> I still want to know what 3rd Edition will look like.
> 
> It's lonely here in 1996.



when you sleep you regain 1 hp _per level_, and *everyone* has thief skills, broken af man.


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## Minigiant

Mistwell said:


> Almost 5 years? D&D 5e came out in July 2014. It's selling more now than the day it was released and has increased in popularity every one of those 6 years. I can see arguing you don't think it's good enough, but I can't see arguing there is some modularity or readiness state that it's failing to achieve such that it would be a barrier to remaining evergreen. In fact I think the modular issue went out the window in year 1 for an overwhelming majority of D&D players.




That's kinda the point.

5e is very popular now. And as it get popular, the newcomers will want things. And just like when I joined, people will see the limitation of the system to mimic the worlds, characters, and styles of  the newcomers.

5e isn't that modular. It was built to be friendly to the classic D&D tropes of the past. 5e replicates the many nostalgic D&D tropes of the past and gets some of the past failures to work.  It doesn't do new ideas that well though.  Ideas from new comics, cartoons, books, tv, and movies, kinda fall apart and need a lot of work from the DM.

A player of mine who's character asked me how do you play a character with a stand. Now I over here trying to smash 5e books to make JoJo characters. Sure Johnathan would be easy but this bum wants to be Jotaro. 

"Dee, you can't be Polnareff..". 
"Then can I be Captain Elfmerica?" 
"What is that, bro?"

Heck, it doesn't even do beastmasters right.


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## ad_hoc

Minigiant said:


> That's kinda the point.
> 
> 5e is very popular now. And as it get popular, the newcomers will want things. And just like when I joined, people will see the limitation of the system to mimic the worlds, characters, and styles of  the newcomers.
> 
> 5e isn't that modular. It was built to be friendly to the classic D&D tropes of the past. 5e replicates the many nostalgic D&D tropes of the past and gets some of the past failures to work.  It doesn't do new ideas that well though.  Ideas from new comics, cartoons, books, tv, and movies, kinda fall apart and need a lot of work from the DM.
> 
> A player of mine who's character asked me how do you play a character with a stand. Now I over here trying to smash 5e books to make JoJo characters. Sure Johnathan would be easy but this bum wants to be Jotaro.
> 
> "Dee, you can't be Polnareff..".
> "Then can I be Captain Elfmerica?"
> "What is that, bro?"
> 
> Heck, it doesn't even do beastmasters right.




I think it is a feature that D&D is its own IP. 

I don't want Fantasy GURPS.

I don't want D&D to try to be all things to all people. I think more people think this way and appreciate that it has its own voice.


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## Don Durito

Mistwell said:


> Almost 5 years? D&D 5e came out in July 2014. It's selling more now than the day it was released and has increased in popularity every one of those 6 years. I can see arguing you don't think it's good enough, but I can't see arguing there is some modularity or readiness state that it's failing to achieve such that it would be a barrier to remaining evergreen. In fact I think the modular issue went out the window in year 1 for an overwhelming majority of D&D players.



Times change.

In the 80s and 90s it was considered pretty much essential for good systems to model reality and to have clear skill systems - it was rare to criticise a game because it's skill system was _too _long or _too_ granular.  This was pretty much state of the art.  Ad&d was mocked for things like the fact that hit points meant that fighters could survive 100ft falls.  This was regarded by many as self-evidently absurd.

In the early 2000s people hacked 3E to give _more_ tactical options and make it _more _complex (Have a gander at Iron Heroes sometime - looking at it now - it seems like a clear mess - at the time it was widely praised and excited a lot of people).  Many people argued (and some continue to this day) that 3.5 had no caster imbalance.  People thought that things like rolling to confirm criticals were worth the trouble - because realism.  D20 Conan had at least two extra forms of defence and thought that the ability to carry a knife in your teeth was actually a reasonable class feature to give a barbarian.

In the early days of 4E many of the less realistic elements of 4E were widely mocked and ridiculed and many people clearly couldn't get their head around how a game could function with so little attention to realism.  Many similar elements either made it across to 5E or were re-introduced with Xanathar's Guide to little uproar.

Call it progress, or merely fashion (it's very much arguable) but trends in regard to what is desirable (as regarded by the majority) in rpgs change.  Some of the design elements that seem perfectly reasonable in 5E may well come to seem old fashioned in another 10 or 15 years.  Sooner or later D&D has to change or it will wither away like 2E was doing in the late 90s as other more 'modern' games start taking bigger slices of the pie.

At this point it's hard to see what 6E will look like because there isn't a clear identifiable lack amongt the community, nor has there been a noticeable movement of a large proportion of players towards some other hot new game.  If you could have said one thing clearly prior to the release of 3E it would have been that some kind of skill system would definitely be introduced.  If you could have said one thing prior to 4e it would have been that caster imbalance would be addressed.


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## Minigiant

ad_hoc said:


> I think it is a feature that D&D is its own IP.
> 
> I don't want Fantasy GURPS.
> 
> I don't want D&D to try to be all things to all people. I think more people think this way and appreciate that it has its own voice.




Oh of course
But again 5e edition has pulled a sudden and large influx of new fans to D&D. New Fans who see know of many other fantasy worlds and concepts. Fantasy concept that have been cultivated over a newly grewing fandom for fantasy.

So all these fans wil draw inspiration from the Harry Potter, Demon Slayer, Avengers, Teen Titans, Game of Thrones, Warhammer, etc and realize the defeciencies of 5th edition. And like a "smart" company, WoTC will attempt to give what they think could fit into D&D and still feel D&D. Either with more books or a new edition.


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## ad_hoc

Minigiant said:


> Oh of course
> But again 5e edition has pulled a sudden and large influx of new fans to D&D. New Fans who see know of many other fantasy worlds and concepts. Fantasy concept that have been cultivated over a newly grewing fandom for fantasy.
> 
> So all these fans wil draw inspiration from the Harry Potter, Demon Slayer, Avengers, Teen Titans, Game of Thrones, Warhammer, etc and realize the defeciencies of 5th edition. And like a "smart" company, WoTC will attempt to give what they think could fit into D&D and still feel D&D. Either with more books or a new edition.




Is that actually what is happening though?

I don't think the population of players who want to emulate franchises is large enough to cater to. 

It's been 5 years. I think we would see that if it were the case. I mean, it's possible WotC has that data and have plans about it that we have yet to see the result of.

All we have to go on right now is that every new year is D&D's greatest sales year. I think that speaks highly of player satisfaction.


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## Mistwell

Minigiant said:


> That's kinda the point.
> 
> 5e is very popular now. And as it get popular, the newcomers will want things. And just like when I joined, people will see the limitation of the system to mimic the worlds, characters, and styles of  the newcomers.




"It's popular so it must change" seems a pretty poor argument to me. If it were unpopular or doing mediocre it seems you'd make the same argument, showing that the argument itself had no merit because you would answer that way regardless of facts.



> 5e isn't that modular.




Right, but the argument it needs to be in order to succeed went out the window long ago. It obviously doesn't. The overwhelming popularity of the game without that modularity has pretty much ended the argument it needs it. It doesn't. That's been demonstrated now.

You can add new subclasses to meet the needs of new concepts, without a new edition. That's what they've been doing. It seems to be working fine for that purpose.


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## Don Durito

ad_hoc said:


> Is that actually what is happening though?
> 
> I don't think the population of players who want to emulate franchises is large enough to cater to.
> 
> It's been 5 years. I think we would see that if it were the case. I mean, it's possible WotC has that data and have plans about it that we have yet to see the result of.
> 
> All we have to go on right now is that every new year is D&D's greatest sales year. I think that speaks highly of player satisfaction.



D&D doesn't emulate franchises directly.  They bubble down through popular culture until they eventually shape the direction that D&D goes.  But the actual influence of any single source at this point is fairly minimal.  Harry Potter has been around for decades now, it hasn't had any clear influence on D&D other than the fact that a large number of people have probably at some point run campaigns based around wizard schools. 

A Game of Thrones?  The TV series is finished, if people were crying out to play D&D like Game of Thrones, than WOTC would have republished Birthright.  I see more people still wanting to make D&D like Conan*.  (But no doubt the tv series has shaped many peoples impressions of fantasy and this will have an impact somewhere - but it's just one of many, many influences.)

You probably have to be fairly deep into the hobby before the idea that a _game_ should aim to faithfully emulate a narrative form of media at the level of its rules system really occurs to you.  It took quite a while before it occured to the hobby in general.


----------



## Minigiant

Mistwell said:


> "It's popular so it must change" seems a pretty poor argument to me. If it were unpopular or doing mediocre it seems you'd make the same argument, showing that the argument itself had no merit because you would answer that way regardless of facts.




It's more "it's popular so let's try to adapt it". If you have control of D&D'd rights and want to sell books, you'll try to adapt the popular media tropes to your game. There is some evidence of this already in the game.



Mistwell said:


> Right, but the argument it needs to be in order to succeed went out the window long ago. It obviously doesn't. The overwhelming popularity of the game without that modularity has pretty much ended the argument it needs it. It doesn't. That's been demonstrated now.




Not exactly. I find that that players new to the game will go with standard tropes and go with the flow, by choice or force, at first.

It wasn't until several games in between the wacky characters and exported characters started appear. That's my experience so you can take it as anecdotal.


----------



## MechaTarrasque

If the D&D movie is a success, then then 6e will be whatever is necessary to make movie fans feel like they are playing in the movie (and since it is a Hasbro movie, they will make changes).

If the movie bombs, Hasbro will sell WotC, and Mattel will buy it (cheap) so the 6e will be set in Eternia.  Dark Sun will take place in the Sands of Time, Eberron will be in the Three Towers (and instead of warforged, you can play a Horde Trooper), etc.  When they do expand to another world, it will be Thundera.


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

I see three phases in the last editions. The first is "we want the return of X title". The second phase is "we want new things" and the final phase what is about compilations and they dare to publish riskier ideas. 

The plans for 5E are different, more linked to multimedia projects. For example Dragonlance will not comeback until the screen adaptation, and this will be after to find the right key for blockbuster movie or teleserie. Birthright will be published after a strategy videogame. 

I allow myself to speculation and my theory is WotC wants an Universal d20, easy to be used for all genres. This is a serious challenge for game designers to find the right power balance when there are different factions with different level of technology and spellcasting, for example the d20 version of Mortal Kombat characters couldn't survive an encounter against the monsters of a d20 Doom Eternal, or d20 Street Fighters can't defeat d20 Overwatch. 

And today some players start to ask "when digital immortality+mind uploading" like in the teleserie "Altered Carbon"? 

We may see a revised 5ed, practically a 5.1 and this isn't not wrong, and some other RPGs not D&D but d20 and allowing to test some different ideas.


----------



## Lanefan

What will 6e be like?  I suspect we'll be waiting quite a long time to find out.

Hope we're all still around to see it.


----------



## MNblockhead

Maybe instead of new editions of 5e, they will go the Hasbro Monopoly route. No need to change make new editions, instead have variants tied to various other IPs and interests. 

It seems that this is already the route they are going with the boxed sets and settings books: Stranger Things, Rick & Morty, Critical Role, Acquisitions Incorporated. Each offer new fluff and but also some crunch that you can use to make core D&D fit the setting.


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

They are very slow with the crunch, and I don't blame them. The crunch is going to suffer a true litmust test the videogame adaptations. A year of gamers is like munchkins trying to find the best combo for three years, or five years if the videogame becomes too popular and lots of gamers are trying to find the best tricks and techniques. 

And the crunch could alter the background, for example new characters based in the last published classes.


----------



## Krachek

Even if I don’t believe in 6ed, here some of my guess.


UA class variant will become official.
disappearance of the bonus action.
concentration break on damage will also go.


----------



## Aldarc

ad_hoc said:


> Is that actually what is happening though?



Looks on homebrew material on DMsGuild and other 5e-based 3pp... Yep... That's what's happening.


----------



## Vael

6th Edition will herald the unification of Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering. Wizards will have to tap lands for spells and learn new spells from randomized booster packs.


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

The class variants are perfectly possible. My doubts are about the classes with special rules after the psionic manifesters, the martial adepts, the vestige pact binders and the incarnum soulmelds. If the totemist shaman class comes back, it will be totally remake. Maybe the incarnum will work as metamagic feat effects or adding monster traits, so simple DMs will can use monster with incarnum soulmelds in fast fights. The vestige pact magic will work like a temporal mini-advanced class or a monster template. Maybe we will see a Kara-Tur with martial adept classes using martial maneuvers like the ones from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords".

* The next edition will be a spin-off, a board game with simpler rules for +10y children, and with the option of solo games with a mobile app as AI (for monsters and hidden traps+secret doors). I suggest the name "Endless Quest" as a spiritual succesor of the famour Hero-Quest dungeon-crawnling tabletop game.

* The challenge for the d20 system is you can create a d20 Conan and a d20 Salomon Kane, but they can't face each other without troubles for the power balance. 

* I am thinking about other of my crazy ideas. A D&D version of my little pony but with centauresses, and theses have got different morphologies. A cute face with equine traits, like horse-girls from furry fandom ( = antropmorphic animals) cartoons, with big nose holes to aspire more air for great physical efforts, like races), and the ears on the side like humans, monkeys and apes, not like horses, and below the baist wouldn't be like the classic centaurs, but more like four-legged humanoids. The lower limbes would have got fingers, one of them a true hooeve, and two of them opposible, allowing to be no-so-bad climbers. The lumbar vertebrae wouldn't be too long, allowing to brush their hairy tails with their ownn hands (upper arms are longer than usual body proportions for humanoids). Only one rig cage (proportionally bigger than the rest of humanois) with a mixture of shoulder blade and pelvic girdle for the limbs in the midle), and two lungs and one heart. The body proportions would be more like the fuko figure of Orisha, the centaur-like robot from Overwatch.


----------



## atanakar

Vael said:


> 6th Edition will herald the unification of Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering. Wizards will have to tap lands for spells and learn new spells from randomized booster packs.




Sadly, WoTC tried to introduce random booster pack with Gamma World (the edition based on 4eD&D). It back fired really bad. I don't think they would tried that again. Instead they created a setting book based on Magic.


----------



## Charlaquin

MechaTarrasque said:


> If the D&D movie is a success, then then 6e will be whatever is necessary to make movie fans feel like they are playing in the movie (and since it is a Hasbro movie, they will make changes).
> 
> If the movie bombs, Hasbro will sell WotC, and Mattel will buy it (cheap) so the 6e will be set in Eternia.  Dark Sun will take place in the Sands of Time, Eberron will be in the Three Towers (and instead of warforged, you can play a Horde Trooper), etc.  When they do expand to another world, it will be Thundera.



Hasbro isn’t going to sell the company that makes Magic: the Gathering over one failed movie D&D movie. M:tG is an absolute cash cow, D&D is a side project.


----------



## MoonSong

Charlaquin said:


> Hasbro isn’t going to sell the company that makes Magic: the Gathering over one failed movie D&D movie. M:tG is an absolute cash cow, D&D is a side project.



At this point a very lucrative side project...


----------



## Minigiant

I've been thinking about it and I think 6th edition might pull away from the base-sub categories and might unify races and class into 3 parts instead of 2.

You see how warlocks are broken up into 3 parts.

Warlock Class Features
Patron Class Features
Pact Class Features
I thing that all races and classes will broken up into 3 parts instead of 2. This allows for some of the features and cultures that don't have to be smashed together to be separated. It also fixes issues with character concepts coming online too late, balancing multiclassing, creating new versions for various worlds.

So I see 6th edition going

Race- Dwarf
Subrace- Surface
Culture- Mountain
Class- Cleric
Subclass- Warpriest
Specialization- Forge
6 for 6th.
This allows for DMs and players to imagine their worlds better. And it allows for WoTC to sell more books. You can drop Sea or Ice on an elf,a goblin, a giant, or a demon and quickly convert a PC, NPC, or monster. But you have to buy the Sea book. Or the PsuedoEgypt book. Or the MTG book.


----------



## Charlaquin

MoonSong said:


> At this point a very lucrative side project...



It’s always been lucrative, but not as much compared to a lot of Hazbro’s other IPs. And the game itself still isn’t really, but since they’ve gone multimedia with it they’re making very good money off the brand. More importantly though, D&D is commanding a lot of public attention right now, and attention is currency in the marketplace of ideas.

My point though was that even if D&D wasn’t performing well (which it is), there’s no way Hazbro would give up WotC over that.


----------



## pogre

If 6th edition does not emulate the 5th edition experience pretty faithfully I foresee a niche opening for another company much like Pathfinder took off when 4th was released.

If 6th requires digital components it probably is not for me, but that may be the way to go.


----------



## Aldarc

pogre said:


> If 6th edition does not emulate the 5th edition experience pretty faithfully *I foresee a niche opening for another company much like Pathfinder took off when 4th was released.*



Hasbro has likely preemptively closed that door.


----------



## MoonSong

Aldarc said:


> Hasbro has likely preemptively closed that door.



Sauce? or just a wish?


----------



## Xeviat

I'd want a "tactical rules patch" more than a 6th Edition, though Pathfinder 2 does some unique things (3 action economy; I personally don't like the presentation of the classes and find class/subclass to be a great balance of character theme and character options).


----------



## Rafael Martin

ad_hoc said:


> (also probably best to do a search. There have been at least 10 of these threads)



I am so sorry that I did not do a search first, and you were somehow forced to reply to this repetitive thread topic.


----------



## ad_hoc

Rafael Martin said:


> I am so sorry that I did not do a search first, and you were somehow forced to reply to this repetitive thread topic.




You had a question and I gave you the best advice to get the answer to that question.

The topic has been played out so people aren't going to respond as earnestly. 

If you actually want answers to your question then yes, do a search.

If you're just trolling then carry on I guess.


----------



## Zardnaar

MoonSong said:


> At this point a very lucrative side project...




 Not as lucretive as you think. 

 The entire RPG market isn't that big, D&D is most of it but the only get a fraction of the revenue. I doubt they get much more than 10 million or so. Which is pocket change for Hasbro. 

 If they can get a hit movie or game that's a bit different. We won't be getting a movie anytime soon even if it's announced tomorrow you would be looking at 2022. 

 The games side also has issues. They don't have ave a decent studio to make a game or the money so you're gonna get shovel ware for the most part. Game development is stupidly expensive a "cheap" one is Witcher 3 which was made in Poland. That game cist more than the entire RPG market in one year.

 You also need passion or vision to make a good game or experience to refine what works.


----------



## MoonSong

Zardnaar said:


> Not as lucretive as you think.
> 
> The entire RPG market isn't that big, D&D is most of it but the only get a fraction of the revenue. I doubt they get much more than 10 million or so. Which is pocket change for Hasbro.
> 
> If they can get a hit movie or game that's a bit different. We won't be getting a movie anytime soon even if it's announced tomorrow you would be looking at 2022.
> 
> The games side also has issues. They don't have ave a decent studio to make a game or the money so you're gonna get shovel ware for the most part. Game development is stupidly expensive a "cheap" one is Witcher 3 which was made in Poland. That game cist more than the entire RPG market in one year.
> 
> You also need passion or vision to make a good game or experience to refine what works.



It's still the most lucrative it's been in decades if not ever. (Those early years are fuzzy, high school dropouts do not good beancounters make ^.^.)  Minimal investment and great sales coupled with licensing.


----------



## Zardnaar

MoonSong said:


> It's still the most lucrative it's been in decades if not ever. (Those early years are fuzzy, high school dropouts do not good beancounters make ^.^.)  Minimal investment and great sales coupled with licensing.




 True WotC is a lot better run than TSR.


----------



## MoonSong

Zardnaar said:


> True WotC is a lot better run than TSR.



I still wonder what would have happened if don Kaye had lived.


----------



## Rafael Martin

ad_hoc said:


> You had a question and I gave you the best advice to get the answer to that question.
> 
> The topic has been played out so people aren't going to respond as earnestly.
> 
> If you actually want answers to your question then yes, do a search.
> 
> If you're just trolling then carry on I guess.



I want the truth!!!


----------



## ad_hoc

Rafael Martin said:


> I want the truth!!!






Spoiler


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

Hasbro notices D&D is, or it could become, a true cash-cow, but as multimedia franchise. D&D can't be Game of Thrones because the key by this is teaching us, opening our eyes, about the fights for the power and how they rule us. The most of speculative fiction only wants to entertain us and give some propaganda message by the author but not really help us to become wiser.


----------



## zedturtle

Aldarc said:


> Hasbro has likely preemptively closed that door.




The OGL and SRD 5.1 exists. That barn door cannot be closed (the OGL is irrevocable). Sure, there are limitations, just like what Paizo had to handle with 3.5. But they fairly easily got around them and someone else could as well.

Any move by WotC has to take into consideration the fact that the market could choose not to follow. That's why I agree that it's going to be slow and gradual (at least until 2024) and even then I think it will be incremental or possibly thematic changes. I would love 5e to be evergreen and I think it has the chops to do it.


----------



## slobster

Zardnaar said:


> Not as lucretive as you think.
> 
> The entire RPG market isn't that big, D&D is most of it but the only get a fraction of the revenue. I doubt they get much more than 10 million or so. Which is pocket change for Hasbro.
> 
> If they can get a hit movie or game that's a bit different. We won't be getting a movie anytime soon even if it's announced tomorrow you would be looking at 2022.
> 
> The games side also has issues. They don't have ave a decent studio to make a game or the money so you're gonna get shovel ware for the most part. Game development is stupidly expensive a "cheap" one is Witcher 3 which was made in Poland. That game cist more than the entire RPG market in one year.
> 
> You also need passion or vision to make a good game or experience to refine what works.



I liken it to comic books and their associated spinoff media projects. Sure, comics themselves are borderline profitable, if at all. But the goal with comics is basically to establish an IP that can then be turned into a movie, or Netflix show, or video game, preferably all of the above plus action figures. (Obviously that's the profit goal; the goal for most comics creators is to tell a good story)

I think Hasbro is angling for long-term D&D ambitions. I would expect them to start pushing "iconic" characters more, either big-name NPCs or cross-marketing adventure paths with video game releases and the like by pushing mascot characters or mascot monsters. Something that is more marketable, as a toy, action figure, further stories, etc. than just characters made by individual groups and players.


----------



## Eyes of Nine

Here are some threads discussing 6th edition:









						D&D 6th edition - What do you want to see?
					

I imagine it is still 5 years off, give or take, but WotC is probably doing the groundwork now, and considering how they might want to change their flagship game.  I do like 5e, but I want some more granularity in the rules, and I want them really listen to the community.   1. Better book...




					www.enworld.org
				












						Is 5th edition too big for there to be a 6th edition?
					

We seem to be in uncharted territory due to the popularity of the current version of D&D. It isn't so much that 5E is popular, but that D&D is, in the form of 5e. This is not to downplay the importance of the edition itself in the game's current popularity, but to point out that for the new...




					www.enworld.org
				












						What should we do with the Seventh Edition?
					

*Deleted by user*




					www.enworld.org
				












						Pick one major theme from a previous edition that you want in 6e
					

Thought exercise.  Let's say 6e comes out at some point, and like 5e, part of the design scope is to pull things in from each edition prior.  You get to choose one major theme (a mechanic, a philosophy, etc) from each edition to go into 6e.  What it is?  For me:    b/x: a basic version like the...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

Other idea is a free-to-play videogame, and the sourcebooks would be NFC miniatures, for collectors, but also to unlock PDFs as DLC. The advantage is if you buy the figure of monster X, you could get the PDF with the monster stats of all, previous and future, editions.


----------



## dave2008

Zardnaar said:


> The entire RPG market isn't that big, D&D is most of it but the only get a fraction of the revenue. I doubt they get much more than *10 million* or so. Which is pocket change for Hasbro.



Where are you getting that number?  Since we don't have any real data the little bit of research I just did suggests it should be at least double that and probably closer to 3x.  Now, that is still a tiny amount compared to overall Hasbro revenue, so your point stands, but I was just curious.


----------



## dave2008

Minigiant said:


> I've been thinking about it and I think 6th edition might pull away from the base-sub categories and might unify races and class into 3 parts instead of 2.
> 
> You see how warlocks are broken up into 3 parts.
> 
> Warlock Class Features
> Patron Class Features
> Pact Class Features
> I thing that all races and classes will broken up into 3 parts instead of 2. This allows for some of the features and cultures that don't have to be smashed together to be separated. It also fixes issues with character concepts coming online too late, balancing multiclassing, creating new versions for various worlds.
> 
> So I see 6th edition going
> 
> Race- Dwarf
> Subrace- Surface
> Culture- Mountain
> Class- Cleric
> Subclass- Warpriest
> Specialization- Forge
> 6 for 6th.
> This allows for DMs and players to imagine their worlds better. And it allows for WoTC to sell more books. You can drop Sea or Ice on an elf,a goblin, a giant, or a demon and quickly convert a PC, NPC, or monster. But you have to buy the Sea book. Or the PsuedoEgypt book. Or the MTG book.



I like the idea, not sure it will happen - but I like it!


----------



## Morrus

dave2008 said:


> Where are you getting that number?  Since we don't have any real data the little bit of research I just did suggests it should be at least double that and probably closer to 3x.  Now, that is still a tiny amount compared to overall Hasbro revenue, so your point stands, but I was just curious.



Here's what we know (as of 2017). D&D's gone up a bit both years since then.

RPG market is $45M in size. Hard to say what percentage of that is D&D, but if you take the online VTT stats (yeah, I know, but it's all we have) that's about 50% as of Q3 2019.









						How big's the RPG market?
					

How big is the RPG market? Pretty damn tiny, is the answer. As of 2016/2017 it's about $35m in size, according to ICv2. That's of a Hobby Games market currently worth just over a billion dollars. The RPG segment is a mere 2.9% of the overall Hobby Games market, which includes boardgames...




					www.enworld.org


----------



## dave2008

Xeviat said:


> I'd want a "tactical rules patch" more than a 6th Edition, though Pathfinder 2 does some unique things (3 action economy; I personally don't like the presentation of the classes and find class/subclass to be a great balance of character theme and character options).



That would be interesting, most of what they need is already available in some form (PHB or UA or variant / optional rules), they just need a bit more and some packaging.  However, they would probably need a "tactical bestiary" or release some templates for tactical monsters.


----------



## ad_hoc

Morrus said:


> Here's what we know (as of 2017). D&D's gone up a bit both years since then.
> 
> RPG market is $45M in size. Hard to say what percentage of that is D&D, but if you take the online VTT stats (yeah, I know, but it's all we have) that's about 50% as of Q3 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How big's the RPG market?
> 
> 
> How big is the RPG market? Pretty damn tiny, is the answer. As of 2016/2017 it's about $35m in size, according to ICv2. That's of a Hobby Games market currently worth just over a billion dollars. The RPG segment is a mere 2.9% of the overall Hobby Games market, which includes boardgames...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.enworld.org




According to ICv2 RPGs were $25 million in 2013 and $65 million in 2018. WotC has said that 2019 was D&D's best sales year (they said each year is better) so we can assume that number has gone up again.

I bet D&D 5e is a lot more popular among people playing face to face. How big is the online VTT market anyway? I wouldn't think it would be big enough to draw any conclusions from.


----------



## Morrus

ad_hoc said:


> According to ICv2 RPGs were $25 million in 2013 and $65 million in 2018. WotC has said that 2019 was D&D's best sales year (they said each year is better) so we can assume that number has gone up again.
> 
> I bet D&D 5e is a lot more popular among people playing face to face. How big is the online VTT market anyway? I wouldn't think it would be big enough to draw any conclusions from.



It’s a sample. Samples don’t need to be big to be statistically significant. The question isn’t the size of the VTT market (it’s definitely big enough for that) but whether it’s actually representative.


----------



## Coroc

Morrus said:


> It’s a sample. Samples don’t need to be big to be statistically significant. The question isn’t the size of the VTT market (it’s definitely big enough for that) but whether it’s actually representative.




Is this with or without MMORPGs? Is this 45 Mio just for the PnP segment, and let us  say miniatures and dice etc.?


----------



## Morrus

Coroc said:


> Is this with or without MMORPGs? Is this 45 Mio just for the PnP segment, and let us  say miniatures and dice etc.?



Click on the link and find out by the magical power of the internet!


----------



## delericho

Even-numbered editions suck. So 6e will actually be called 7e.

Other than that, I don't know.


----------



## Jer

My bet is that 6e will be 5e's engine, with some tweaks and new artwork.  The biggest revisions will be in the PHB and be what is included with each class as subclasses, the list of spells at the back of the book, and possibly some revisions of the feats.  

I suspect that going forward the era of experimenting with D&D's game engine is done - the rules are going to be as locked in place as Monopoly or Risk are - those games have subtle changes every few decades but mostly are recognizable as the same games you could buy in the 1970s with modern artwork (or in the case of Monopoly, completely unchanged).  The RPG market is a lot more mature now and D&D "knows" what kind of game it wants to be - it doesn't have to chase new ideas and new mechanics anymore.

In fact, instead of a new edition I expect  them to release just a revised Player's Handbook eventually and leave everything else in place.  No "6th edition" push to get everyone to upgrade at all - just get folks to all buy a new PHB while leaving everything else alone.

(Also I fully expect them to continue to play with the boxed sets in stores.  Eventually if the rules stay stable enough they might embrace for D&D starter sets what they've done for licensed properties on their board game side and have one-off box sets around licenses based on the D&D engine where they can.  I don't think they're quite there yet - and there's the argument to be made that you can't recycle enough of a Starter Set to make it worthwhile like you can with a Monopoly game so maybe it wouldn't work - but I wouldn't be surprised.)


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

My bet (I love conjectures) is in the 10 Anniversary a revised will be published, something like a 5.1, or 5.5. 

The 6th Ed. will arrive after publish most risky ideas about crunch. 

The future media productions could cause changes in the canon or even in the gameplay. For example a preteen D&D cartoon could use a lot of no-lethal magic (sleeping, hold-person, grease, web..) and this would be reflected in the sourcebooks with new no-lethal low-level spells. 

If there is a videogame based in Spelljammer, we will notice in the playtesting the "magictek" can break the power balance.


----------



## Eyes of Nine

I just hope future editions stop using the term “Race”.


----------



## Gradine

I personally think it's quaint to believe that humanity will live long enough to see a 6th edition at this point


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

The next edition will not for D&D or medieval fantasy but to try other genres, as space opera, urban horror, videogame shooters adaptations or even superheroes, this is great and ultimate challenge for d20 game designers (Mutants and Masterminds is a d20 variant, not really compatible with D&D).

If the new ideas for a future edition are too risky, then better using these in a spin-off, Gamma World, for example. 

They are going to watch the best-sellers by the 3PPs and learning with the videogame developments. They want to find the right key to use the IPs as brands and hooks for the future media projects, the true cash-cow and best advertising.


----------



## delericho

LuisCarlos17f said:


> My bet (I love conjectures) is in the 10 Anniversary a revised will be published, something like a 5.1, or 5.5.




I think it's not a terrible bet that they might do a new edition in 2024, that being the 50th anniversary of the game as a whole. My guess would likewise be it would mostly be small changes: of the order of 1st -> 2nd, or 3.0e -> 3.5e, rather than the paradigm shifts that we've seen in the "whole number" editions lately.

And I think I'd be happy with that, on all counts.


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

Maybe an anniversary edition, with updated rules and maybe adding new PC races and one class.


----------



## teitan

I think we will see a "Special Edition" of 5e to celebrate a 50th anniversary or something before we see a literal 6e. Some tweaks here and there to work as a refresh but nothing like the overhauls that 3e and 4e were in comparison to the previous edition. I also think WOTC will stick to D&D as their only RPG, I don't think we will see a modern rule set or a sci fi set. It will be D&D all the time with FR as default and one off books for other settings with notes in the sourcebooks for using them in other settings... business as usual.


----------



## Zardnaar

dave2008 said:


> Where are you getting that number?  Since we don't have any real data the little bit of research I just did suggests it should be at least double that and probably closer to 3x.  Now, that is still a tiny amount compared to overall Hasbro revenue, so your point stands, but I was just curious.




 Well know roughly the size of the rpg market. D&D probably has most of it so $65 million D&D probably has at least 50 million of that.

 But after the shops cut and distributers I think they're lucky to get 20% if the price of the book. SKR broke down the numbers a few years ago. 

 At the most they probably get about $15 million which is 25% of $60 million. 

 Unknown though is income from VTTs and games.

 Not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things.  One got game our movie will blow that out if the water.


----------



## LuisCarlos17f

I still defend we will see a d20 Future. The first step will be the return of Spelljammer, and maybe a remake of Red Steel/Savage Coast with firearms from d20 Past. Maybe you are right they don't worry about to print a TTRPG of d20 Modern but at least to design to be used in future videogames based in modern-age IPs. 

WotC doesn't need a d20 version of Marvel Comics or DC Universe but maybe a open door for a future d20 superheroes is possible. Even they could reuse characters now are public domain.


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## Horwath

I expect nothing less than a holodeck


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