# 24 (now 29) products announced so far for 08, what else will we see? (Now with 09!)



## TerraDave (Jan 30, 2008)

This is what I hope is complete list of announced releases, including new ones scooped today, with amazon release dates:

*Dungeons of Dread booster * (D&D Miniatures Product): April 8 2008

*D&D Miniatures Game Starter * (D&D Miniatures Product): April 15, 2008

*Keep on the Shadowfell: Adventure H1:* May 20 2008

*Player's Handbook:* Jun 6, 2008 

*Dungeon Master's Guide:* Jun 6, 2008 

*Monster Manual:* Jun 6, 2008 

*Against the Giants:* A Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures Huge pack: Jul 15, 2008 

*Dungeons & Dragons Character Record Sheets:* Jul 15, 2008 

*Halls of the Giant Kings:* Dungeon Tiles: Jul 15, 2008 

*Dungeons & Dragons Premium Dice*: Jul 15, 2008

*Dungeons & Dragons for Dummies:* July 21, 2008 

*Thunderspire Labyrinth: Adventure H2:* Jul 15, 2008  

*Dungeon Master's Screen:* Aug 19, 2008

*D&D Icons: Gargantuan Dracolich * (D&D Miniatures Product) Aug 19, 2008
_this and a gargantuan orcus are on "hold"_

*Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide:* Aug 19, 2008

*Pyramid of Shadows: Adventure H3:* Aug 19, 2008   

*Forgotten Realms Player's Guide: * Sep 16, 2008 

*Scepter Tower of Spellgard: Adventure FR1:* Sep 16, 2008 

*Tome of Treasures * (Suplement): Sep 16, 2008 

*Dungeon Master's Guide - Deluxe Edition:* Oct 21, 2008 

*King of the Trollhaunt Warrens: Adventure P1:*  Oct 21, 2008 

*Martial Power (Rules Expansion):* Oct 21, 2008 

*Monster Manual - Deluxe Edition:* Oct 21, 2008

*Player's Handbook - Deluxe Edition: A 4th Edition Core Rulebook:* Oct 21, 2008 

*Urban Lairs: DU1 - Dungeon Tiles: * Oct 21, 2008 

Edit: *Demonweb booster:*(minitures) Nov 7, 2008

Edit: *Draconomicon I: Chromatic Dragons * (Rules Expansion) Nov 18, 2008

Edit: *Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Starter Set * (Introductory Game) Nov 18, 2008

Edit:* P2 Demon Queen’s Enclave * Adventure Dec 2008 

Edit: *Manual of the Planes * Accessory Dec 2008 

Edit:*Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead * Jan 20 2009

So we have 3 core rule books, 3 deluxe versions of those books; 2 general suplements; 2 FR books; 4 general adventures, 1 FR adventure; screen, sheets, and dice; 4 mini sets and 2 sets of tiles (with a nice giant themed pair coming in July). (Edit: you will also be able to get the core rules together in one set). Edit: and there is a monster supplement, and an intro game. 

Setting aside the deluxe books, we have 12 book type products (including the adventures). This seems to be their annual quota, but should we expect more towards the end of the year? Edit: now going over that, and expecting more products to be announced for December.

Edit, again: yes, couple more added.Edit more: with 2009

I have migrated this to general.


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## Cmarco (Jan 30, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> This is what I hope is complete list of announced releases, including new ones scooped today, with amazon release dates:
> 
> *Dungeons of Dread booster * (D&D Miniatures Product): April 8 2008
> 
> ...




Sounds like plenty enough to me, but I'm always open to more cool stuff!


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## Echohawk (Jan 30, 2008)

My notes have two more confirmed products that aren't on the list:

*4th Edition Core Rulebook Gift Set*: Jun 6, 2008
*Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition for Dummies*: Jul 21, 2008

In addition, The Rouse (I think) mentioned that a new D&D Basic Set would most likely be out before the end of 2008, but no release date is confirmed for that at present.

And finally, there have been unsubstantiated rumours (based on comments from a translator, IIRC) that either a *Manual of the Planes* or a *Draconomicon* or both are also in the works for late 2008 or early 2009. But again, no confirmed release date for either.


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## TerraDave (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks echohawk. I actually have D&D for dummies, just slightly out of order. I left out the gift set, as it is just a repackaging of the books (though I do have the 3.5 one, and like the slip case for use at the table). I will revise. 

Basic set I think is definate, surprised it has not got on amazon. I know Draconomicon was mentioned in Worlds and Monsters, but in a sort of maybe way. (It was a very popular 3rd ed book).


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> This is what I hope is complete list of announced releases, including new ones scooped today, with amazon release dates:
> 
> *Dungeons of Dread booster * (D&D Miniatures Product): April 8 2008
> 
> ...





*D&D Icons: Gargantuan Dracolich * (D&D Miniatures Product) Aug 19, 2008

Nope, on hold with Gar. Orcus


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2008)

Echohawk said:
			
		

> My notes have two more confirmed products that aren't on the list:
> 
> *4th Edition Core Rulebook Gift Set*: Jun 6, 2008
> *Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition for Dummies*: Jul 21, 2008
> ...




Yes.


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## TerraDave (Jan 30, 2008)

The Rouse: thanks!


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## kennew142 (Jan 30, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> Yes.




Yes, there will be a Manual of the Planes?
Yes, there will be a Draconomicon?

or

Yes, there have been unsubstantiated rumors?


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## SteveC (Jan 30, 2008)

I would expect we will likely see similar splats for Arcane and Divine power sources. Those were unofficially scooped a month ago or so.

I hope, I really do, that we won't see all of them in 2008. Slow and steady releases of high quality are what I want out of 4E.

--Steve


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## Doug McCrae (Jan 30, 2008)

What's the difference between the deluxe and standard versions?


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug McCrae said:
			
		

> What's the difference between the deluxe and standard versions?




More Awesome


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## ThirdWizard (Jan 30, 2008)

kennew142 said:
			
		

> Yes, there will be a Manual of the Planes?
> Yes, there will be a Draconomicon?
> 
> or
> ...




All of the above! (I hope. )

By the way, TerraDave, you need to stop snooping around on my Amazon pre-order list.


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## DaveMage (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug McCrae said:
			
		

> What's the difference between the deluxe and standard versions?




If it's like the 3.5 ones, the differences are:

-Deluxe are leatherbound with ribbon
-$40 more expensive ($75 each vs. $34.95 each)
-Contain a letter from Bill S. saying "thanks."


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> More Awesome




Leather or some other deluxe cover material, gilded edges, ribbon book mark, etc..


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2008)

SteveC said:
			
		

> I would expect we will likely see similar splats for Arcane and Divine power sources. Those were unofficially scooped a month ago or so.
> 
> I hope, I really do, that we won't see all of them in 2008. Slow and steady releases of high quality are what I want out of 4E.
> 
> --Steve




Our plan has been to release slow and steady all along to spread out the material over the course of the edition instead of front loading the awesome as we did in 3e.


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## Cintra (Jan 30, 2008)

The only Minis set listed is Dungeons of Dread in April. There should be two more sets by the end of the year, I guess they just haven't announced names for them yet?

Also, I don't see anything with a release date of November or December, so I'd guess there's more to come.


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## grimslade (Jan 30, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> More Awesome




But does it come with a side order of Cool?


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## grimslade (Jan 30, 2008)

Cintra said:
			
		

> The only Minis set listed is Dungeons of Dread in April. There should be two more sets by the end of the year, I guess they just haven't announced names for them yet?
> 
> Also, I don't see anything with a release date of November or December, so I'd guess there's more to come.




Umm.

*Against the Giants*: A Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures Huge pack: Jul 15, 2008

and the third set would be in November which is Sir Not Appearing in This List.


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## Cintra (Jan 30, 2008)

Doh!

Somehow I read that as if it were an Iconics pack, instead of what it is. Thank you, grimslade.

And "Sir Not Appearing In This List" would be an amazing theme for a minis set. Monty Python meets all-the-weird-critters-that-don't-fit-any-other-theme, maybe?


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## Mirtek (Jan 30, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> *D&D Icons: Gargantuan Dracolich * (D&D Miniatures Product) Aug 19, 2008
> _A gargantuan orcus is coming at some point instead_



AFAIK you have switched it.

They first planed a gargantuan Orcus and even showed the first preview mini at some Con, but then they decided the Orcus was too expensive and we will get the dracolich instead


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## TerraDave (Jan 30, 2008)

Or they are _both_ on hold...

...but when will we get gargantuan Orcus and his pet gargantuan Dracolich?


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## Roman (Jan 30, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> > Originally Posted by SteveC
> > I hope, I really do, that we won't see all of them in 2008. Slow and steady releases of high quality are what I want out of 4E.
> 
> 
> ...




I don't doubt the ability of WotC to deliver high quality products even if they came at a rapid pace. You have plenty of skilled designers; can hire more if there is demand for products and can make use of talented freelancers. Even in those products from WotC I don't like, I can see hallmarks of quality in terms of both production values and careful design. 

As you point out, slow and steady is, of course, also good due to the aborption capacity of the market for products and to have awesome things to release even later on. That said, though, the product schedule seems pretty busy - it does not seem to me that fewer products are being published this year than in the first year of the 3.X edition. How does that jive with the slow and steady strategy?


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## jodyjohnson (Jan 30, 2008)

The November miniatures release has been announced as _Demonweb_ per the miniatures announcement about set rotation.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mit/20080124a



> Standard Rotation Schedule for 2008
> 
> November 7: Demonweb rotates into Standard.


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## TerraDave (Jan 30, 2008)

thanks, added it.


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## Rechan (Jan 30, 2008)

I wish we were getting our Arcane book first.  

I don't wanna wait for the Swordmage and the Bard and the Necromancer and Illusionist and more Warlock pacts.

GIMMIE NOW.


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## Irda Ranger (Jan 30, 2008)

kennew142 said:
			
		

> or
> 
> Yes, there have been unsubstantiated rumors?



You hardly need The Rouse to confirm that last one.


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## Incenjucar (Jan 30, 2008)

Roman said:
			
		

> How does that jive with the slow and steady strategy?




3E legacies, I would think.

We already know that Core is going to be a larger collection of books than before.


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> Or they are _both_ on hold...
> 
> ...but when will we get gargantuan Orcus and his pet gargantuan Dracolich?




They are both on hold.

Maybe in 2009 we'll do another icon.


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2008)

Roman said:
			
		

> I don't doubt the ability of WotC to deliver high quality products even if they came at a rapid pace. You have plenty of skilled designers; can hire more if there is demand for products and can make use of talented freelancers. Even in those products from WotC I don't like, I can see hallmarks of quality in terms of both production values and careful design.
> 
> As you point out, slow and steady is, of course, also good due to the aborption capacity of the market for products and to have awesome things to release even later on. That said, though, the product schedule seems pretty busy - it does not seem to me that fewer products are being published this year than in the first year of the 3.X edition. How does that jive with the slow and steady strategy?




There is bound to be a certain amount of "spiking" at the launch of  a new system as you may be observing here but just looking at releases does not provide the full picture. You must also look at content and page count. For example of the 25 products listed here (yes there are a couple more but for the sake of demonstration) when you break it down you have:  

5 accessories (tiles, screen, dice, and char sheets)
4 minis products (boosters and starter)
5 adventures
3 repack/reprints (deluxe versions of core books)
1 non-wotc product (dummies) 

That leaves 7 products that consist of 3 core books, 2 campaign setting books, and a couple supplements. 

In all it may be a lot to buy but IMO we are holding back a lot considering it is the first year.


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## vagabundo (Jan 30, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> There is bound to be a certain amount of "spiking" at the launch of  a new system as you may be observing here but just looking at releases does not provide the full picture. You must also look at content and page count. For example of the 25 products listed here (yes there are a couple more but for the sake of demonstration) when you break it down you have:
> 
> 5 accessories (tiles, screen, dice, and char sheets)
> 4 minis products (boosters and starter)
> ...




Ive not been a big purchaser of D20/3e stuff, I found that I had enough in the core books to keep me busy.

In 4e I can see myself buying more adventures/supplements, if I can have more game/session I'll have a greater burn rate in stories. Good news for you guys (wotc) if true.

I don't think the list above is excessive.


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## Roman (Jan 30, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> There is bound to be a certain amount of "spiking" at the launch of  a new system as you may be observing here...




Good point - I suppose it is necessary to create a certain critical mass of material for the new system. Once that is accomplished it is possible to slow down. 



> ... but just looking at releases does not provide the full picture. You must also look at content and page count. For example of the 25 products listed here (yes there are a couple more but for the sake of demonstration) when you break it down you have:
> 
> 5 accessories (tiles, screen, dice, and char sheets)
> 4 minis products (boosters and starter)
> ...




This is another good point. Because all the products were bundled together in the original post of this thread, I conflated them all together. 7 mechanics-providing products in the first year is indeed rather reasonable for the start of a new system even if a couple more are added at the end of the year. Adventures are sort of crunch products too, but they are a different category of them - I am certainly comfortable keeping them as a separate category.


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## SteveC (Jan 30, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> Our plan has been to release slow and steady all along to spread out the material over the course of the edition instead of front loading the awesome as we did in 3e.



That would make me very happy. The initial releases for 3.5 were excellent, and I think a lot of the motivation was "let's get the stuff back to the people in updated form." After a very short time we were doing things that didn't have the same history and weren't looked for as much by the fans. Some of those were quite good, but others ... not so much.

Give me quality products, I'll wait.

--Steve


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## PoeticJustice (Jan 31, 2008)

Although I'm not updating to 4E, I can see the advantages in avoiding another glut. Or am I the only one felt really blitzed by all the new stuff that came out in 2004-2006?

Shame too. The warlock and a few other things made a big splash but a lot of other stuff went relatively unnoticed because the release schedule was so thick.


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## doctorhook (Jan 31, 2008)

Alas, the loss of Orcus and Dracolich is the worst news I've heard in quite a while. I love my D&D Icons, and I intend to own all of them.

This is not a complaint, merely a post of mourning. *Sigh*

...Everything else looks awesome though!


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## GishBandit (Jan 31, 2008)

Can any one tell me about Martial Power (Rules Expansion)?  What exactly it is about, whether or not it has spells and other powers for other characters(I imagine it does), and what kind of stuff player characters can get out of the book.


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## KB9JMQ (Jan 31, 2008)

The Icon hold makes me very sad.
Any idea as to why? I hope they are not poor sellers. I really like them.
I already have shelf space set aside for that Dracolich.


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## Guild Goodknife (Jan 31, 2008)

I was really looking forward to that Orcus.


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## pukunui (Jan 31, 2008)

*4e deluxe editions and errata questions*

I have some questions for The Rouse:

1) Since there are going to be multiple PHBs, MMs, and DMGs, are you going to release deluxe editions for all of them or just the first three?

2) How come the deluxe editions of the first three core rulebooks are coming out so soon after the initial release? It seems to me like you're jumping the gun a bit. For me, the real selling point of the deluxe 3.5 books was getting the errata incorporated into the text. By releasing the deluxe 4e books only a few months after the initial release of the core books, it'll be too soon to incorporate all the errata that will undoubtedly be compiled for the books into those editions ... which makes their fancy makeover the sole reason for getting them at this point.

3) Is there a plan to "fix" the errors (errata and typos) in the text of 4e books for subsequent print runs or will that sort of thing remain solely an electronic deal as with 3.5 (with the exception of the deluxe 3.5 core books)?


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## Echohawk (Jan 31, 2008)

doctorhook said:
			
		

> Alas, the loss of Orcus and Dracolich is the worst news I've heard in quite a while. I love my D&D Icons, and I intend to own all of them.





			
				KB9JMQ said:
			
		

> The Icon hold makes me very sad.





			
				Guild Goodknife said:
			
		

> I was really looking forward to that Orcus.




Me too!

Dear Mr. The Rouse, how many do we each have to buy to convince you to make more Icons?


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## TerraDave (Jan 31, 2008)

Ok, lets look into the future a little bit.

We seem to have

_Manual of the Planes
Draconomicon
Arcane Powers
Divine Powers
PHBII  _ (psionic and nature?)
_DMGII_ (no idea content)
_MMII_ (more monsters, maybe some linked to psionics? eberon?)
_Eberon Campaign Guide
Eberon Players Guide
P2, P3...
FR 2, FR 3..._
_Eb(eron) 1, Eb 2_

Thats already more stuff (setting minis, tiles and things like that) then we have for 08. Will we see some in 08? (maybe a couple more adventures and another power book). Is it enough for 09? Too much?

Now lets get crazy:

_Deities and Demigods _ (they have left the door to this wide open)
_Faiths and Avatars _ ("")
_Epic Level Handbook
Psionic Powers
Nature Powers
Tome of Spells (Tome of Powers? Tome of Power?)_
_Demonicon
Diabolical Codex
The Book of Horrid Aberations
The Book of nasty Undead
Battle/Mass Combat book/box set
Dragon Lance Campaign Setting
Oerth Campaing Setting
Al Qadim Book
Oriental Adventures_

What else?


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## Roman (Jan 31, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> Ok, lets look into the future a little bit.
> 
> We seem to have
> 
> ...




That's a pretty good list. "Primal Powers" is another candidate for a splatbook, though it may simply denote nature powers. There may also be some possibility of other campaign settings, such as Dark Sun, Planescape, Ravenloft or Birthright, but we will have to wait to see about that.


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## Echohawk (Jan 31, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> What else?



A new _Arms & Equipment Guide_ seems likely at some point.

And if there is going to be an _Epic Level Handbook_, then I wouldn't be surprised to see supporting books for the other two layers: a _Hero Level Handbook_ and a _Paragon Play Guide_, with traps, monsters, NPCs, encounters, campaign ideas and DM tips tailored to those tiers of play.


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## vagabundo (Jan 31, 2008)

I'd prefer if they had a new brand something like Worlds of DND. And release a nice hard back twice a year with an old setting (or new) and adventure path included and some DDI support

So we would have a nice little updated setting and new adventure all in one.

I'm thinking:
- Dark Sun (reboot)
- Ravenloft
- Al-Qadim
- Mystara/Hollow World

Release them as one off's and if they catch then release another module or two.


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## BadMojo (Jan 31, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> More Awesome




Like 10% More Awesome or 30-40% More Awesome?

Unrelated question to anyone who cares to answer.  How is the first adventure out before the PHB?  Quick start rules?  Did I miss something?


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## PrinceXaxor (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeah, Keep on the Shadowfell was always promoted as a peek at 4th edition.  There should be pregen characters in it as well.


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## drothgery (Jan 31, 2008)

BadMojo said:
			
		

> Unrelated question to anyone who cares to answer.  How is the first adventure out before the PHB?  Quick start rules?  Did I miss something?




You missed something, but you guessed right about what you missed. Keep on the Shadowfell includes pre-gen characters and quick start rules.


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## kennew142 (Jan 31, 2008)

Guild Goodknife said:
			
		

> I was really looking forward to that Orcus.




So was I. We definitely need more non-dragon icons.


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## Zurai (Jan 31, 2008)

vagabundo said:
			
		

> So we would have a nice little updated setting and new adventure all in one.
> 
> I'm thinking:
> - Mystara/Hollow World
> ...




Oh, please please please revive Mystara! I recently found my old Wrath of the Immortals and Poor Wizard's Almanacs and have been having nostalgic fits.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jan 31, 2008)

Terra, it's "Losers," not "Loosers." The only blight on an otherwise excellent thread!


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## Raven Crowking (Jan 31, 2008)

Mr. The Rouse,

One of the designer blogs mentioned the possibility of fully fleshing out the Forbidden City from 1e module I1: Dwellers of the Forbidden City.  This is a product I would buy, whether or not I converted to 4e.  Any idea if such a thing will ever exist?

RC


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## TerraDave (Jan 31, 2008)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> Terra, it's "Losers," not "Loosers." The only blight on an otherwise excellent thread!




_Thats_ why people have been voting. Thanks, back on topic.


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## Roland55 (Jan 31, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> Our plan has been to release slow and steady all along to spread out the material over the course of the edition instead of front loading the awesome as we did in 3e.




*Good* idea.


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## Evilhalfling (Jan 31, 2008)

Well I'm good for the core, and perhaps one adventure in the first year, as my budget is not unlimited.

My players are looking for a good one-shot game that shows off the 4e rules & options (which we won't be playing until fall.) I'm really depending on Enworld for reviews on the early adventures vs making my own.


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## Scott_Rouse (Feb 1, 2008)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> Mr. The Rouse,
> 
> One of the designer blogs mentioned the possibility of fully fleshing out the Forbidden City from 1e module I1: Dwellers of the Forbidden City.  This is a product I would buy, whether or not I converted to 4e.  Any idea if such a thing will ever exist?
> 
> RC




I am not sure but anything is possible. We have talked on several occasions about city ideas.

Can you point me to the blog post?


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## TerraDave (Feb 27, 2008)

Updated.


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## TerraDave (Mar 18, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> This is what I hope is complete list of announced releases, including new ones scooped today, with amazon release dates:
> 
> *Dungeons of Dread booster * (D&D Miniatures Product): April 8 2008
> 
> ...




I have updated the above, though I am not 100% sure on some of the minis & tyles.

Anyways, right now we have:

3 Core books. 2 FR books. 4 other (non-adventure) books. Deluxe versions of the core books. 6 Adventures. 4 Mini sets. Two intro products (the dummies book and starter set). 5 other accesories. 

Thats 9 full sized books, so about 1 per month, as promised, pluss all the other stuff. One thing: there seems to be a pretty good balance between DM oriented products and PC oriented ones. Hopefully that will remain the case.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Mar 18, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> I am not sure but anything is possible. We have talked on several occasions about city ideas.
> 
> Can you point me to the blog post?



Before Raven does that - is the blogger in danger?


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## Darkwolf71 (Mar 18, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> *D&D Icons: Gargantuan Dracolich * (D&D Miniatures Product) Aug 19, 2008
> _this and a gargantuan orcus are on "hold"_



Whoa... wait a minute, Orcus is on hold? When did this happen?


Why WotC, WHY????

:weeps in anguish:


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## TerraDave (Mar 18, 2008)

Le Rouse confirmed it above. 

We all cried.


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## Raven Crowking (Mar 18, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> I am not sure but anything is possible. We have talked on several occasions about city ideas.
> 
> Can you point me to the blog post?




Scott,

Just to be clear, the idea of the fully fleshed out Forbidden City from 1e module I1: Dwellers of the Forbidden City was the absolutely first 4e product mentioned that made me think "I would buy that sight unseen".  That would be, IMHO, an utterly fantastic product.  Especially with a kick ass poster map.

Also, the blogger didn't say that such a thing _would_ happen (so far as I remember), but that it was an exciting possibility (again, as far as I remember).  This was, I believe, one of the WotC design team, early on after 4e was announced.  I could probably find the blog again, possibly through the auspices of Google.

It might be http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005

RC


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## morgul97 (Mar 18, 2008)

Quick question for The Rouse.  I'm not sure if you can answer this or not (might be some sort of company secret) and it might be kind of a stupid and obvious question, but do you guys have a general plan for the entire arc of 4e in terms of products and supplements.  In other words, internally have you sat down and said "ok, we think that 4e will be good for about x number of years in current form and over the course of that time we want to cover these topics and have this number of new campaign settings and each of those settings would generally have these books in it, etc etc."  

It just seems to me that one problems in recent years with 3E is that the supplements seem kind of tacked on, like they weren't part of some grand plan,  but were sort of like "ok, we need to release 12 books this year, lets come up with some stuff."  As others have mentioned, I would love to see higher quality products that seem to fit more with a grand road map.  It seems 3E had this to start, but kind of fell off after a couple of years.


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## M.L. Martin (Mar 19, 2008)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> Whoa... wait a minute, Orcus is on hold? When did this happen?
> 
> 
> Why WotC, WHY????
> ...




  My guess? All the prototypes are being used by WotC, Necromancer and Paizo staff for in-house games or private shrines.


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## TerraDave (Mar 19, 2008)

The Rouse has gone quiet.


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## MaelStorm (Mar 19, 2008)

Scott_Rouse said:
			
		

> Our plan has been to release slow and steady all along to spread out the material over the course of the edition instead of front loading the awesome as we did in 3e.



front loading would have been fun for some of us


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## TerraDave (Mar 19, 2008)

29 products isn't enough?


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## MaelStorm (Mar 19, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> 29 products isn't enough?



Well it's not a question of quantity but much more of front loading the content. Too spread content release for classes as an example.


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## Zinovia (Mar 19, 2008)

Front-loading benefits people who want to start a long-term campaign as soon as possible, provided they have the cash to buy all the books.  That gives them access to all the classes and options right from the get-go.  Some folks are irked that iconic classes such as the druid are being held until sometime down the road; some to the point where they are not going to switch to 4E until the bard (or other favorite class) is released.  I'm expecting to wait until I can somehow get my hands on the swordmage rules before starting a long-term campaign, as that is the class one of our players is most interested in.  And no, I'm not buying Forgotten Realms, no matter what.  We don't use that setting and have zero interest in it.  

OTOH, front-loading doesn't leave as much for WotC to publish in future splatbooks.  If the good stuff all comes out in the first 6 months, what are they going to put in future books that will make people want to buy them?  Staggering out the information might make some amount of financial sense.   New base classes are a nice juicy tidbit to include that may persuade people to buy the books.   If the best stuff comes out right away, then future supplements will elicit nothing more than a "meh" response from payers...err I mean *players*.  

One thing to keep in mind is that if the new classes come out too late, they may never see play in a given campaign.  Given the length of time that our current campaign has run (from shortly before 3.5 came out), any base class contained in splat-books published after that date had virtually no chance of being played.  We have only had one permanent character death in all that time, and replaced a couple of players.  We don't own most of the splatbooks and never saw the need for them, so the new people chose classes out of the core rules just like the original group did.  Warlocks, reserve spells, Eberron; all of that jazz came out after our campaign was well underway, so we never bought any of it.  Perhaps that is atypical though.  

Options published in 3.5 splatbooks ranged widely in quality and balance.  They required heavy adjudication from the DM in order to determine whether they should be allowed in the game.  Prestige classes: weird campaign specific fluff or game-breaking munchkinism - you decide!  They were a waste of paper for the most part and their inclusion in books discouraged me from buying them.  

With 4E I plan to buy H1 and the 3 core books.  I think things like the Draconomicon make nice Christmas presents but they are not typically things that we will purchase otherwise.  Unless the new splats (or PHB2, etc) are chock-full of really good info, I'm not sure we'll buy them.   If our campaign is going to run for several years, we probably won't have the chance to make use of newly published classes.


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## MaelStorm (Mar 19, 2008)

Products announced so far that I will buy:
- Core Book Set
- FR (I don't want to buy it, but there is core rule content not released in the Core Book)
- GM Screen
- Martial Powers
- Tome of Treasures
- Manual of the Planes

There's not enough content to start a campaign, so I won't start a campaign, what I want is a feywild/primal celtic/viking high fantasy one. So I'll start this campaign somewhere in 2009-2010 I guess. FR, meh! Eberron sound fun, and I might start a mini campaign, before a receive enough core and supplement to start my main campaign.


Books I'm still waiting for:
- Arcane Powers
- Divine Powers
- Eberron Campaign Setting
- Player's Handbook II
- Monster Manual II
- Primal Powers
- Draconomicon II: Metallic Dragons
- Unearthed Arcana (I'm dreaming!)


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## TerraDave (May 8, 2008)

I have added *Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead * to the list.

Amazon info here:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_g...s=Open+Grave:+Secrets+of+the+Undead&x=15&y=18

So we are getting dragons, undead and (from the Manual of the Planes) outsiders/imortals pretty early on. Not that I am complaining or anything.


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## Korgoth (May 8, 2008)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> Scott,
> 
> Just to be clear, the idea of the fully fleshed out Forbidden City from 1e module I1: Dwellers of the Forbidden City was the absolutely first 4e product mentioned that made me think "I would buy that sight unseen".  That would be, IMHO, an utterly fantastic product.  Especially with a kick ass poster map.
> 
> ...




Hmm.  A ruined lost city populated by evil snake people _and_ barbarous froglodytes?

Cha-ching.


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## TerraDave (Jun 16, 2008)

I have made a new thread in general:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=4302245


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