# Raven familiar can speak!?



## Vigwyn the Unruly (Jan 4, 2005)

How do you handle this? Given that the "speak with master" ability doesn't appear until 5th level, it seems odd that the raven can speak a language at 1st level.  

Does the raven simply parrot phrases randomly until 5th level, or is it a fully capable user of the language (limited in its conversation only by a low intelligence score) starting at first level?


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## F5 (Jan 4, 2005)

The "speak with Master" ability is a special ability that lets the caster and familiar speak in a apecial language only they can understand (without looking it up, I don't remember if it's considered SU or EX, but one of the two).  This special ability doesn't develop until the caster hits 5th level, but the raven's speech is available right from the start, just like any other creature capable of speech, with a high enough Intelligence.

Generally, I've found that the ability to speak makes it a much more useful low-level scout, and can be a lot of fun to play, but isn't overpowering.  That being said, unless I go for an Improved Familiar, the raven is by far my favorite.


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## shilsen (Jan 4, 2005)

Vigwyn the Unruly said:
			
		

> Does the raven simply parrot phrases randomly until 5th level, or is it a fully capable user of the language (limited in its conversation only by a low intelligence score) starting at first level?




I'd say the latter. After all, this isn't a natural ability (it's supernatural).


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## argo (Jan 4, 2005)

The "Speak With Master" ability does not give the famailiar the ability to speak a language, it lets the master understand the famailiar's natural squaks, squeeks, gurgules, etc and the famailiar to understand the master's speech.  The upside of this is that it may be possible for your famailiar to talk to you and nobody realize it, the downside is that your famailiar can't speak with anyone else! (at least ot without some other magic)

A raven famailiar can speak an actual language which makes him, amongst other things, a great messenger.  The two abilities are totally different.

Hope that helps.


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## Gez (Jan 4, 2005)

Fun thing: the raven is supposed to speak only one language that you know, but it shares your skills, so if you bought any language with the Speak Language skill, your raven benefit from it, too.


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## frankthedm (Jan 4, 2005)

Save me the eyes!

Shineys for my nest!

RAWK! THE SEE US! _[flys away]_


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## Scion (Jan 4, 2005)

Gez said:
			
		

> Fun thing: the raven is supposed to speak only one language that you know, but it shares your skills, so if you bought any language with the Speak Language skill, your raven benefit from it, too.




So it could understand those languages, but not necissarily speak them 

Raven is definately interesting though, being able to speak that language is a great ability!


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## Gez (Jan 5, 2005)

You got it in reverse. It's the _Speak_ Language skill. Your raven could speak them, just not necessarily understand them!


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## Scion (Jan 5, 2005)

Hey, I know every language but greek


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## reanjr (Jan 5, 2005)

Vigwyn the Unruly said:
			
		

> How do you handle this? Given that the "speak with master" ability doesn't appear until 5th level, it seems odd that the raven can speak a language at 1st level.
> 
> Does the raven simply parrot phrases randomly until 5th level, or is it a fully capable user of the language (limited in its conversation only by a low intelligence score) starting at first level?




I give them full understanding of the language.  At an Int of 6, there's no reason the raven wouldn't be able to fully grasp a language.  That's just their special ability.  It's also a supernatural ability, so it seems like that's certainly the intention.  It makes them great recon companions.  One of my players has one right now and decided that the raven speaks high elven (not available to non elves with speak lnaguage), so it's fairly amusing sometimes to see the raven try to pantomime to the other characters.


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## FireLance (Jan 5, 2005)

Gez said:
			
		

> You got it in reverse. It's the _Speak_ Language skill. Your raven could speak them, just not necessarily understand them!



You know, I just read the thread on how _darkness_ actually creates shadowy illumination. What was your point again?


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## Angel Tarragon (Jan 5, 2005)

Argo hit the nail on the head.


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## Orm (Jan 5, 2005)

Gez said:
			
		

> Fun thing: the raven is supposed to speak only one language that you know, but it shares your skills, so if you bought any language with the Speak Language skill, your raven benefit from it, too.



Nice trick, but:


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> A raven familiar can speak *one* language of its master’s choice as a supernatural ability.



emphasis mine.


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## Gez (Jan 5, 2005)

Gez said:
			
		

> Fun thing: *the raven is supposed to speak only one language that you know*, but it shares your skills, so if you bought any language with the Speak Language skill, your raven benefit from it, too.




Emphasis mine.


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## Pickaxe (Jan 5, 2005)

Gez said:
			
		

> Fun thing: the raven is supposed to speak only one language that you know, but it shares your skills, so if you bought any language with the Speak Language skill, your raven benefit from it, too.




I'm not sure that's right. A familiar can use the master's ranks in skills in which the master has ranks. Speak Language has no ranks; instead, you "buy" a language with skill points, the same way you'd buy ranks for a regular skill. Since there are no ranks in Speak Language, there's nothing for the familiar to "share", so familiars (of any type) don't automatically gain languages bought by their masters. After all, if you could do this, why couldn't you do it for any familiar (making the raven's special ability far less special)?

--Axe


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## Orm (Jan 5, 2005)

Pickaxe said:
			
		

> I'm not sure that's right. A familiar can use the master's ranks in skills in which the master has ranks. Speak Language has no ranks; instead, you "buy" a language with skill points, the same way you'd buy ranks for a regular skill. Since there are no ranks in Speak Language, there's nothing for the familiar to "share", so familiars (of any type) don't automatically gain languages bought by their masters. After all, if you could do this, why couldn't you do it for any familiar (making the raven's special ability far less special)?
> 
> --Axe



Good explanation


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## just__al (Jan 5, 2005)

So ,if you are a warlock with the acquire familiar feat and you have a raven and YOU have maxed out your UMD skill, what's to keep the Raven from using your spare wand of Fireball?


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Jan 5, 2005)

just__al said:
			
		

> So ,if you are a warlock with the acquire familiar feat and you have a raven and YOU have maxed out your UMD skill, what's to keep the Raven from using your spare wand of Fireball?




Well, pistol-totin' ravens make excellent skeet-shoot targets ...

Otherwise, not much.


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## Squire James (Jan 5, 2005)

Normally, I as a DM don't mess with familiars as long as they stay out of combat.  The more "in combat" they become, the more hostile attention they get.  That raven with the Wand of Fireballs is likely to become a priority target, and the stats of familiars tend to be bad enough that such familiars get killed a lot in "balanced" combats (given most PC's are level 10 by the time they get hold of multiple Wands of Fireballs).

On the other hand, that frog that just sits there and give his master 3 hp just doesn't get much attention... I often forget to ask the wizard to roll a save for his familiar.


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