# price check: quiver of infinite arrows



## evilbob (Sep 29, 2006)

Going simply by the rules for item creation in the DMG, using _minor creation_ (a level 4 spell) as a base, creating a quiver that had an infinite number of arrows - i.e. going for the effect of "one each time you draw one" or a quiver that never ran out of arrows - would be priced somewhere in the neighborhood of 56,000g.  (2000 x spell level 4 x caster level 7)  This is based on the idea that it is a "use activated or continuous" effect type of item, since it has no charges nor use restrictions per se.

However, this seems extraordinarily too high, especially for an object that makes only arrows.  The "create wondrous item" rules are, I think we can all agree, open to quite a lot of interpretation - and I believe that pricing wondrous items in particular is much more of an art than a science.  However, other than noting that 56k is too much, what kind of price would others think is more reasonable for this kind of item?

The only other direction we've tried is:  since it is such a limited use type of item, _create water_ (a zero level spell) might be similar... however, this gives a price of 1000g (2000 x 1/2 x 1), which is decidedly too low - especially since the other quiver item listed in the DMG is a simple extra dimensional space - not as useful - and costs 1800g.  (This item also is guilty of heavy "interpretation" by using a level 5 spell to create such a low-priced item.)  And clearly an item used for direct offensive capabilities would be more valuable than a cup that could produce water at any time.

I believe some kind of exception needs to be made to the overall rule based on a limited type of use, but more importantly, I'm not sure where the overall price tag of this item should fall (other than between 1800 and 56,000 gold).

Suggestions, thoughts?


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## Archade (Sep 29, 2006)

Try this - when enchanting a weapon, 20 arrows count as 1 weapon.  When buying equipment, arrows are sold in lots of 20.  Have this quiver produce 20 arrows, up to 3 times a day.  That should lower your cost significantly.

The other option is just make a variant of Heward's Handy Haversack, which can hold how many arrows?


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## Crothian (Sep 29, 2006)

I think a quiver of infinite arrows, thus never running out of ammo is a pretty powerful thing.  A quiver normall holds 20 arrows, and most low levels archers are firing 2 a round so after ten combat rounds they are out.


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## Paraxis (Sep 29, 2006)

Under the quiver idea I think that around 8,000 would be a good price.  For less you could get a HHH and just fill it with arrows, but this item makes the arrows but only holds arrows so maybe even leave it at the price of HHH.

Another thought is a character in a Forgotten Realms novel series uses a Bow and has magical adamantine arrows that return to the quiver when they are needed, I would price each arrow as its own magic weapon with the returning property.


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## moritheil (Sep 29, 2006)

There is an official item that creates arrows when you fire a bow while wearing it.


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## Ogrork the Mighty (Sep 29, 2006)

Also remember that a _quiver of endless arrows_ could be used by an entire army of archers to provide an inexhaustible supply of arrows. Heck, you could flood the market and put all the fletchers out of business!


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## Bad Paper (Sep 29, 2006)

Archade said:
			
		

> when enchanting a weapon, 20 arrows count as 1 weapon



no, it's fifty


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## Wilphe (Sep 30, 2006)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I think a quiver of infinite arrows, thus never running out of ammo is a pretty powerful thing.  A quiver normall holds 20 arrows, and most low levels archers are firing 2 a round so after ten combat rounds they are out.




If people are tracking that of course...


I think it is highly campaign dependent

In a campaign where the GM doesn't track ammunition such an item is valueless

In a campaign where characters are continually in the wilderness for weeks on end without time to make more arrows or any opportunity to buy arrows and the GM expects them to account for every arrow they expend, then it's very handy indeed.

Somewhere in between lies the campaign where this item is basically the "_Quiver of Not-Having-To-Keep-Track-Of-This-Tedious-Detail_"


You can get a similar effect from an _Efficient Quiver_, which is why I always buy one.


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## smootrk (Sep 30, 2006)

I would make the arrows temporary in nature to avoid the 'flooding the market' idea.  Arrows created last no longer than 1 minute after pulled, or else they vanish or otherwise crumble away.  Still a potent item for any archer, but less useful for equipping a military unit.


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## thompgc (Sep 30, 2006)

A while back WotC had an article The Lone Drow: Companions of the Hall
I couldn't find it on there site now
It had an item called
Quiver of Anariel which produced an endless supply of arrows that would last 1 round
There were versions for standard arrows, masterwork, magical of various plusses and additional costs for special materials.
Base cost was 28000
Price for +X seemed to be 28000 + X^2 * 4000
aka 28000 + the cost to enchant 100 arrows


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## Jack Simth (Sep 30, 2006)

Psionics to the rescue!



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Call Weaponry
> Psychoportation (Teleportation)
> Level: Psychic warrior 1
> Display: Material
> ...




Seems a little better for basing an item on.... at 1 min/level, use-activated, you're looking at 2,000 gp * 1 ("spell") * 1 (caster) = 2,000 gp.

And you get an infinite supply of mundane arrows that vanish two rounds after leaving your hand.  You can fire all day, but you can't flood the market.  And you can't fire into (or through?) an anti-magic field.  The arrows are mundane (although I might permit you to get magic arrows, even though the spell itself technically wouldn't allow it - but you're only getting the arrows, not the bow, so it's a fair trade off - by paying for augmentation with a higher "caster" level and effective spell level - so an effectively 3rd level spell at caster level 5 would get you +1 arrows for 30k, +2 arrows for a 5th level spell equivalent at caster level 9 for 90k, +3 arrows for a 7th level spell equivalent at 13th caster level for 182 k, and +4 arrows for a 9th level spell equivalent at 17th caster level for 306k... oh, Epic item multiplier.... so that's 3,060k.  And +5 arrows for an 11th level spell equivalent at caster level 21 for 4,620k, +6 arrows for a 13th level equivalent spell at caster level 25 for 6,500k, et cetera.


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## LiquidBlue (Sep 30, 2006)

Jack Smith said:
			
		

> Psionics to the rescue!




I was going to suggest something entirely similar, but based on the 1st level poser _bolt._



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Bolt
> Metacreativity (Creation)
> Level: Psion/wilder 1
> Display: Material
> ...




This also a 1min/level power, so the price listed by Jack Smith is accurate. Interestingly, arrows from this power automaticly have a +1 enhancement, and the augments to increase that enhancement are 3pp, instead of 4pp for Call Weaponry.


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## Someone (Sep 30, 2006)

Supposing an archer, played for 20 levels, with 14 average encounters per level, firing an average of 4 arrows per round for an average of 6 rounds per encounter, that makes 6720 arrows fired in the campaing, which is 336 quivers, each one costing 1 gold coin. The item will be valuable in trems of bookkeeping and weight carried, but not so much in terms of real money if the arrows crumble after a couple rounds or so to avoid the "arrow factory" thing. 

If we're talking about masterwork, magical or special material arrows, then the calculation isn't of course valid.


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## Unkabear (Sep 30, 2006)

There used to be a link to the Lone Drow stats on the wizards site, but I cannot get it to work.  So here is what I have of thier pricing of an unlimited quiver.



> Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.


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## smootrk (Sep 30, 2006)

Someone said:
			
		

> Supposing an archer, played for 20 levels, with 14 average encounters per level, firing an average of 4 arrows per round for an average of 6 rounds per encounter, that makes 6720 arrows fired in the campaing, which is 336 quivers, each one costing 1 gold coin. The item will be valuable in trems of bookkeeping and weight carried, but not so much in terms of real money if the arrows crumble after a couple rounds or so to avoid the "arrow factory" thing.
> 
> If we're talking about masterwork, magical or special material arrows, the things may change.



edit:  misread what you were saying...


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## Stalker0 (Sep 30, 2006)

keep in mind that if the arrows disappear, it makes the quiver vastly more useful to assasins and the like. You kill a guy and remove all trace of the murder weapon? I'll take 2.


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## Question (Sep 30, 2006)

Quiver of anariel. The stats were on wizard's site, the page dissapeared, and wizards refuses to explain where it went.


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## nameless (Sep 30, 2006)

Just to support the "much, much cheaper than 56,000 gp" angle, think of what it could cost to buy a handy haversack and then spend 1000 gp on arrows. That would be 20,000 arrows, cost 3000 gp, and be utterly ridiculous. 2000 gp for an endless quiver is probably fair.

your 56,000 gp estimate is done correctly for minor creation, but as written is a terrible way to create arrows. you specified minor creation at will, creating anything minor creation could make whenever you wanted. i'd say that IS worth 56,000 gp.


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## IamTheTest (Sep 30, 2006)

Someone said:
			
		

> Supposing an archer, played for 20 levels, with 14 average encounters per level, firing an average of 4 arrows per round for an average of 6 rounds per encounter, that makes 6720 arrows fired in the campaing, which is 336 quivers, each one costing 1 gold coin. The item will be valuable in trems of bookkeeping and weight carried, but not so much in terms of real money if the arrows crumble after a couple rounds or so to avoid the "arrow factory" thing.
> 
> If we're talking about masterwork, magical or special material arrows, then the calculation isn't of course valid.




I think that while this is a decent start to the analysis it is actually far more complicated than that.  If you are firing mundane arrows at later levels you will be less effective.  The less effective the party, the longer the encounter will last.


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## ohGr (Sep 30, 2006)

Question said:
			
		

> Quiver of anariel. The stats were on wizard's site, the page dissapeared, and wizards refuses to explain where it went.



Lucky for me, i saved that page as an MHTML file a while back.  Unfortunately, i can't attach it here because that's not one of the supported file types. :\


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## Question (Sep 30, 2006)

ohGr said:
			
		

> Lucky for me, i saved that page as an MHTML file a while back.  Unfortunately, i can't attach it here because that's not one of the supported file types. :\




Open it and copy/paste the text here......


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## evilbob (Oct 1, 2006)

Thank you all for the great assortment of answers!  This is all extremely helpful.

So let me sum up:

There's a semi-official infinite quiver that I'm thinking _would_ supply an entire army and put all fletchers out of business that costs 28,000, with additional costs for better quality arrows as Unkabear posted.  (These might also only last 1 round, but I don't know why any infinite arrow generator would create arrows that last only 1 round, since "holding" your action would be impossible and quite devalue the item.)

Using poser psionic haxxor,  you could create an item that generated arrows that last for a minute (or disappear on use) using the DMG's rules for as little as 2000 gold.

Someone pointed out that over the lifetime of your character/campaign, you'll probably fire less than 10,000 arrows (possibly less than 7,000).  Purchasing 10,000 standard arrows would cost 500 gold.  (They would also weigh 3,333 pounds.)  (But, purchasing 10,000 MW arrows would cost 70,000 gold.)

Heward's Handy Haversack costs 2000g and could hold something on the order of 800 arrows, theoretically.  However, drawing each arrow would be a move action.

Most importantly, there are important RP implications for having a quiver of infinite arrows; not the least of which are that without a duration you could supply an army with arrows (or heck, build the hoover dam), but with a duration they are powerful assassin tools; and that ultimately it depends on the flavor of your campaign as to whether or not this is an amazingly overpowered item or a wonderful bookkeeping timesaver (or just worthless).


I would also like to say that while I like the idea of limiting the item to something like, "produces 20 arrows 3 times per day" - and I think that would certainly help with pricing - if the goal of the item is to eliminate bookkeeping, this doesn't work.  You still have to keep track of 20 arrows, AND you have to remember how many times you've used the thing per day.  I'd say this is a great solution for the heavy RP + nitpicky DM campaign, but for the "I just don't want to erase a hole in my character sheet" camp, it's not as useful.

At this point, I'm certainly convinced that the price range can be narrowed to between 2000g and 28,000g, and I'm sure it would be closer to 2000.  I still think 2000g pings a little low in my opinion, but even 28,000 seems way too high, especially with the evidence listed above.  And then you have the argument for a "scalable" item, like the semi-official one posted, that might give MW, +1, +2, etc. arrows for a higher price.  Something like that is harder to figure out, since - using the same scale given above - 6000g for a quiver of infinite +1 arrows seems low again.


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## evilbob (Oct 1, 2006)

For clarification:

50 arrows:  2.5 gold
50 MW arrows:  350
50 +1 arrows:  2000
50 +2 arrows:  8000
50 +3 arrows:  18000
50 +4 arrows:  32000
50 +5 arrows:  50000

The magic item listed appears to have taken these numbers, doubled them, and added them to 28000 to get their prices (with the exception of MW, which just rounded from 700 to 1000).

Edit:
Part of the issue in my opinion is trying to create a pricing structure that works for more powerful items:  for example, playing 2000 gold for infinite arrows doesn't seem unreasonable, since you're buying 40,000 arrows.  But 6000 gold for infinite +1 arrows is a sweet deal since that's equal to 150 of them.  No one would buy more than 150 +1 arrows again.  (For that matter, no one would make individual +1 arrows anymore either!)

Also, another smaller issue is that the psionics solution is good for just placing the item in the world, but it would be hard for a player in a non-psionics campaign to create one of these items.


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## Crothian (Oct 1, 2006)

Wilphe said:
			
		

> If people are tracking that of course...
> 
> I think it is highly campaign dependent




Really?  People tracking equipment is campaign dependant?  I want to play in a game like that.  Those potions I ghave will last forever!!


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## LiquidBlue (Oct 1, 2006)

I would argue that 2,000 gp is the perfect price for a quiver that produces +1 arrows that evaporate after 2 rounds.

The analysis has already been given that the price for arrows over the entire career of an adventurer is almost completely negligible. So the infinite quiver is essentially nothing more than a convience, a convience that goes away when mundane weapons are needed the most - in an antimagic field, or subject to a targeted dispell.

Furthermore +1 arrows are not really all that great over the course of a career. They do not have any of the special material properties, nor any special abilities. Once the archer enchants their bow for any special ability, there is no difference between the +1 arrows and regular arrows. And at what point does the archer use a special bow? Usually in the mid low levels.

As for the assasin arguement, in a world of magic, there are many ways to kill that leave even less evidence than an evaporating arrow.


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## HeavenShallBurn (Oct 1, 2006)

If you're willing to search there was a thread about this exact same item a few months ago and it should still be here a few pages down.  I posted the complete excerpt from WOTC on the quiver and all it's variants and their costs.


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## evilbob (Oct 1, 2006)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> If you're willing to search there was a thread about this exact same item a few months ago and it should still be here a few pages down.  I posted the complete excerpt from WOTC on the quiver and all it's variants and their costs.



Do you mind to link to the thread?  Was it the 28,000 gold version or something different?


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## Question (Oct 1, 2006)

IIRC quiver of anariel was something like 25k+ for infinite standard arrows, which i found obscence........you cant possibly use even half of that amount in arrows from level 1 to 20 unless the entire campaign has you sniping a army.

Unfornately non-donators cant use search to find the quiver of anariel post.


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## Christian (Oct 1, 2006)

LiquidBlue said:
			
		

> The analysis has already been given that the price for arrows over the entire career of an adventurer is almost completely negligible. So the infinite quiver is essentially nothing more than a convience, a convience that goes away when mundane weapons are needed the most - in an antimagic field, or subject to a targeted dispell.




I dunno. Our party's archer has made the fascinating discovery that a character with two iterative attacks, the Rapid Shot feat, and under the effects of a _haste_ spell, can run through her entire stock of fifty arrows in just over twelve rounds of combat. And for a character without massive Strength, even fifty arrows can be a significant load to carry. I know for a fact she'd love to have on of these items ...


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## Jack Simth (Oct 1, 2006)

Christian said:
			
		

> I dunno. Our party's archer has made the fascinating discovery that a character with two iterative attacks, the Rapid Shot feat, and under the effects of a _haste_ spell, can run through her entire stock of fifty arrows in just over twelve rounds of combat. And for a character without massive Strength, even fifty arrows can be a significant load to carry. I know for a fact she'd love to have on of these items ...



Ah, but that's what the Efficient Quiver (or Quiver of Elhonia (sp?), if you're not using the SRD) is for:


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Efficient Quiver: This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about twenty arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to sixty objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to eighteen objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as six objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can produce any item she wishes, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what’s placed inside it.
> 
> Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Price 1,800 gp;Weight 2 lb.



(Emphasis added).  An 1,800 gp item, holds 60 arrows for 2 pounds.  Sure, a sufficiently skilled archer can run through that in ten rounds... but if you're still spending arrows on it after ten rounds, chances are, you shouldn't be.  Most battles don't last that long.  After the battle, you just refresh your quiver from the mundane quivers you carry in Bags of Holding or Portable Holes.

Of course, an Efficient Quiver can have any kind of arrow stored inside - Adamantine, Alchemical Silver, Cold Iron, +1 Bane, et cetera.  Or multiple types at once.  The infinite quiver of +1 arrows?  Not so much.


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## evilbob (Oct 1, 2006)

Christian raises a good point:  perhaps Someone's "back of the envelope" calculations should use an average of 6 or 7 arrows spent per round instead of 4.  Even still, that's only about 10,000 arrows.

Overall, I think that 2000 gold is probably reasonable enough for a quiver that contains an infinite number of mundane (but still magical for the purposes of anti-magic fields and whatnot) arrows.  I'd say using the psionics spell for the base magical creation requirements is fine, too - just so long as people are willing to include such a spell in their campaigns if players want to make the item.

For the super nit-picky, I'd even say that the quiver appears normal and can carry up to 19 of any other type of arrow - so you _could_ carry around 10 adamantine and 5 cold iron arrows in it, just in case.  The magical property would essentially be that every time you reached to draw an arrow, a mundane one would be there.  They'd last for 1 minute or until used (they can't be recovered).


Edit:  However, I think any kind of quiver that produced greater quality arrows should be much more expensive than simply another 1000 or even 4000 gold, if nothing else than just for RP reasons (why would anyone ever make just one +1 arrow again?).  I have no further ideas along those lines, however.


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## Jack Simth (Oct 1, 2006)

Well, if you treat an augmented Bolt as a higher level spell, it works out okay - it's a convienience, not a long-term savings - for a 1st level spell equivalent, at manifester level 1, an infinite quiver of +1 arrows works out to 4,000 gp, guidelines (spell*caster*2,000 gp * duration factor = 1*1*2,000*2=4,000 gp; the price of 100 +1 arrows, ignoring the cost of the masterwork arrows); an infinite quiver of +2 arrows works out to .... 2.5*4*2,000 gp * 2 =40,000 gp; which is the cost of 250 +2 arrows (again, ignoring the cost of the arrows themselves).  The price of an infinite quiver of +3 arrows works out to .... 5*7*2000*2=140,000 gp; nearly 389 +3 arrows.  An infinite quiver of +4 Arrows becomes an Epic item at 6.5*10*2000*2=260,000 gp before the *10 Epic modifier.  A +X bow will always be less expensive.

Mind you, if you treat an augmented Bolt as just a higher caster level, but not a higher level spell, nobody will ever make a +5 bow again.  As it's a 1st level "spell" that, at a manifeter level of 19, gives +6 arrows at a cost of 1*19*2000*2=76,000 gp... where a +5 Bow costs 100,000 gp.

Another option on the infinite quiver is to look at the line in the item creation guidelines that mentions that step about comparing to existing items - an infinite supply of +1 arrows should have a cost on par with a +1 bow and a very large supply of mundane arrows, as they have comperable effects.  An infinite supply of +2 arrows should have a cost on par with a +2 bow and a very lare supply of mundane arrows, as they have comperable effects.  Or more generally, an infinite supply of +X arrows should have a cost equal to Y*the cost of a +X bow, where Y is some arbitrary multiplier or other.


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## Someone (Oct 1, 2006)

evilbob said:
			
		

> Christian raises a good point:  perhaps Someone's "back of the envelope" calculations should use an average of 6 or 7 arrows spent per round instead of 4.  Even still, that's only about 10,000 arrows.




I did. It's 6 or 7 for the last 5 levels; from level 1 to 5 it`s 2 (just rapid shot) It averages to 4 or 5 for the entire 20 levls; and even that, it pushes the arrow cost to the later levels, where it's even more negligible. If the "quiver of infinite arrows" is too high, it'd be cheaper and still as good to buy (or use if you already have it) a bag of holding and stuff it with a couple hundred quivers, replenishing when you can.


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## Unkabear (Oct 1, 2006)

I apologize the list of prices that I posted was a cut and paste from the wizards link with the Quiver of Anariel  in it.



> Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.


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## Christian (Oct 1, 2006)

Jack Simth said:
			
		

> After the battle, you just refresh your quiver from the mundane quivers you carry in Bags of Holding or Portable Holes.




We're kinda nervous about putting arrows in our bag of holding.  :\  We do plan on getting her a QoE, either buying if we can find one for sale, or making one once our wizard gets high enough level to learn _Leomund's Secret Chest_. It'll be a great place to store her collection of magic arrows at that point (as well as spare bows), but a safe & reliable source of large volumes of normal arrows would be kind of handy.


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## zypherillius (Oct 2, 2006)

*Infinite arrows you ask?*

*pulls out _Dragon Compendium_*

"_*Quiver of Plenty*_: Crafted by Nestaril the Undying, one of the most venerated elven wizards of a previous age, these rare quivers are prized by those who own them.  Although elves of ancient and noble lineage occasionally inherit a quiver of _quiver of plenty_ from their forerathers, most of these items were destroyed long ago.  Until recently no sage could duplicate these magical items.
_Quivers of plenty_ are frequently made from leather of rich browns and verdant greens.  At a foot long and about half as wide, the face of a _quiver of plenty_ is a work of art, covered in resplendent reliefs representing images of the natural world, such as monkey-filled glades, packs of animals, or ancient deities of nature.  Aside from its rich coloration and wonderful design, the quiver is otherwise like any other: A simple leather strap allows its owner to attach it to his back or waist.
A _quiver of plenty_ provides its owner with a limitless supply of verious types of masterwork arrows.  Whenever the owner reaches into the _quiver of plenty_ his mental desire causes it to instantly create an arrow of the desired type that remains in existence long enough to fire.  The _quiver of plenty_ can create an infinite number of wodden arrows, steel-tipped arrows, silver-tipped arrows, and cold-iron-tipped arrows.  It can also create five adamantine-tipped arrows each day.  If the quiver's owner drops, hands off, or otherwise lets fo of a created arrow in a way that isnt firing it from a bow, the arrow disappears.  All arrows created by a _quiver of plenty_ dissipate into nothingness after they strike a solid object (whether the intended target or not.)
Strong conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wonderous Item, _major creation_; Price 18,000 gp; Weight 1 LB.  _Author_: Richard Farrese.  _Source_#328."

I hope i put it in right, i dont remember direct quoting out of a book, its been so long since i did it last, i hope its able to help.


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## Unkabear (Oct 2, 2006)

I want one of those. Cheaper too.


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## Jack Simth (Oct 2, 2006)

Christian said:
			
		

> We're kinda nervous about putting arrows in our bag of holding.  :\  We do plan on getting her a QoE, either buying if we can find one for sale, or making one once our wizard gets high enough level to learn _Leomund's Secret Chest_. It'll be a great place to store her collection of magic arrows at that point (as well as spare bows), but a safe & reliable source of large volumes of normal arrows would be kind of handy.



Oh, you just cap them off and strap them down in the quivers they come in so they don't fall out.  Sure, it may become a problem if you drop a live opponent in there..... but most won't risk a trip to the astral by punctoring your bag, so.... at least, not the intelligent ones.


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## Ranger5 (Oct 2, 2006)

I copied the Lone Drow page when it was up and converted to pdf. I attached it to this thread already in a similar discussion.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=172874


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## evilbob (Oct 2, 2006)

I really like zypherillius's post about the Quiver of Plenty - that makes for a very nice "step-up" to the more mundane object already discussed, with an appropriate increase in both price and power.  And while the spell used to create it seems a bit high (and has the funny caveat of specifically stating that you cannot use that spell to create cold iron, but hey, whatever), since by the time you can cast 5th level spells you would most likely have quite the additional array of magical tools with which to deal with this problem - on the other hand, you'd have to be at least that level or higher before you could afford such an item, so I guess it seems ok.

I still think a simple and more mundane "bookkeeping" solution seems right for 2000 gold, since you could also use the "bag of holding + lots of quivers" option to hold about 1600 arrows for about 2580 gold (and the bag of holding can be used for many other things, thus increasing its relative value).

I think the 28,000 gold option for mundane arrows is right out at this point, although something on that order seems right for +1 arrows and above.  Perhaps just keep the rest of the pricing structure for "upgrading" your quiver?  I.e. 32,000 for +1 arrows, 44,000 for +2, etc.


ps.  I also really like this description, since it works well on curbing abuse without adding durations or any other numbers you need to track.  It just sets up simple rules that are intuitive and easy to follow and require no bookkeeping (yay!):


> Whenever the owner reaches into the quiver of plenty his mental desire causes it to instantly create an arrow of the desired type that remains in existence long enough to fire... If the quiver's owner drops, hands off, or otherwise lets fo of a created arrow in a way that isnt firing it from a bow, the arrow disappears. All arrows ... dissipate into nothingness after they strike a solid object (whether the intended target or not.)



This keeps you from supplying an army, or never having to gather firewood again.


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## Wolfwood2 (Oct 2, 2006)

evilbob said:
			
		

> ps.  I also really like this description, since it works well on curbing abuse without adding durations or any other numbers you need to track.  It just sets up simple rules that are intuitive and easy to follow and require no bookkeeping (yay!):
> 
> This keeps you from supplying an army, or never having to gather firewood again.




Now suppose that instead of enchanting a quiver, you build this enchantment into the bow itself so that the arrow appears as you start to notch back the string.

Add a minor enchantment that makes the created arrow all glowy and shedding light as a torch (gratis on many magical weapons).

And we've just recreated the bow from the D&D cartoon!


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## messy (Oct 2, 2006)

allo

andy collins created a "quiver of endless arrows" that creates unlimited masterwork arrows. it costs 900 gp.  

http://www.andycollins.net/Features/stuff_that_holds_stuff.htm

messy


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## Question (Oct 3, 2006)

I spotted the quiver of plenty yesterday as well. Far more reasonable, far more superior than a quiver of anariel.


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## penance (Oct 3, 2006)

*grins*   

I wonder....  how much would it cost to make a quiver that generates Arrows of Slaying(human), like the slaying arrows seen in a standard 3.5 DM manual?

DC20 or die......     twould be a handy answer to.... bookkeeping.


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## Sabathius42 (Oct 6, 2006)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Really?  People tracking equipment is campaign dependant?  I want to play in a game like that.  Those potions I ghave will last forever!!




Good lord, some people will nitpick anything.  I have been playing role-playing games since since 3rd grade (1982) and I have never once in any game I played in tracked mundane (not special) ammunition nor rations.

We also don't track water consumption, lack of vitamin C over long sea voyages, having to use the restroom, dealing with the social consequences of not showering for months at a time, cleaning and sharpening weapons, cleaning and performing minor repair on armor and shields, delousing, torch/flashlight lifespans, vehicle gas tank levels, and any spell component that costs less than 1gp.

DS


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## Christian (Oct 6, 2006)

Sabathius42 said:
			
		

> Good lord, some people will nitpick anything.  I have been playing role-playing games since since 3rd grade (1982) and I have never once in any game I played in tracked mundane (not special) ammunition nor rations.




Our DM didn't worry about tracking normal arrows--until he realized the rate at which the archer was burning through them. A 1st-level character will buy a standard quiver with 20 arrows & maybe never think about it again. But a mid-level archer can easily burn through 20 arrows well before a single tough combat is over. She's being asked to track not because it matters whether she's got 36 or 37 left at the moment, but to make sure that she's suffering the appropriate encumbrance penalties for carrying enough arrows to maintain her Continuous Barrage of Feathered Doom (TM). The DM realized that this is an important balancing factor for an archer--her Strength & melee abilities are not all that great, so the choice between the chore of lugging around several full quivers and the risk of having to drop the bow & pull out a sword is a significant one.


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## evilbob (Oct 27, 2006)

It's been several weeks, but here is my finished product from this thread.  Overall, I'm pretty pleased with it.  I have listed the translated psionics "spell" (with one major change:  I made the ammo MW instead of +1, but changed the casting time to swift instead of standard action; I believe this makes the spell more useful but appropriately changes the power - and it works better with the item as well), and then the magical item that can be created with it.  Suggestions are welcome.


Bolt
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sorc/Wizard 1
Components:  V, S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: 2d4 masterwork bolts, arrows, or sling bullets
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You create 2d4 ethereal-looking crossbow bolts, arrows, or sling bullets, appropriate to your size, which dissipate harmlessly when the duration ends or after being fired. Ammunition you create has a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

=====================

Quiver of Infinite Arrows

This quiver appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about twenty arrows.  Whenever the owner of this object reaches for an arrow, there is always one ready to be drawn.  Multiple arrows may be drawn at a time.  The arrows are ethereal in appearance, and are subject to being dispelled and cannot exist in an antimagic field, but in all other ways they are exactly like masterwork arrows.  Arrows created have a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls.  They remain in existence for one minute or until fired, after which they dissipate harmlessly.  If the quiver's owner drops, hands off, or otherwise lets go of a created arrow in a way that isn’t firing it from a bow, the arrow disappears.  The quiver of infinite arrows normally appears to be empty, and does not produce arrows if used to store mundane arrows.

Faint conjuration; CL 3rd; Craft Wondrous Item, bolt; Price 2,000 gp;Weight 2 lb.


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