# Throwing a non-thrown weapon



## pollochicken (Jul 22, 2009)

In a recent game, one of my players wanted to throw his sword at an enemy running away.  He did it using the rules of a heavy thrown weapon and normal damage, which we knew didn't seem correct but we could not think of anything else to do.  Are there any rules concerning throwing a non throwing weapon (or anything else for that matter) at someone as an attack?


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## On Puget Sound (Jul 22, 2009)

Throwing a sword is no different that throwing a chair, an enraged badger or a beer stein.  Improvised thrown weapon, DEX vs AC, no proficiency bonus, range 5/10, 1d4+DEX damage.  A kind GM would allow the sword's magical enhancement and properties to apply.

If the character is going to do this regularly, you might allow "weapon proficiency: improvised" or a "throw anything" feat to allow a +2.

Regarding using STR instead of DEX for some large thrown objects, trating them as Heavy Thrown improvised weapons, that would be a house rule but I see nothing wrong with it.  If you do so, it would be reasonable to treat all two handed or versatile weapons as Heavy Thrown Improvised.

Magical throwing weapons return to hand after thrown, but I don't know that someone enchanting a longsword or halberd would bother including auto-return in the magic.  Maybe this is one of the few cases where a swordmage's swordbond actually makes a difference.


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## Thundershield (Jul 23, 2009)

On Puget Sound said:


> Regarding using STR instead of DEX for some large thrown objects, trating them as Heavy Thrown improvised weapons, that would be a house rule but I see nothing wrong with it. If you do so, it would be reasonable to treat all two handed or versatile weapons as Heavy Thrown Improvised.



While I agree for the most part with the poster above, this one part I'd handle differently. If it's a relatively handy item - something you can throw with one hand, I'd let it count as a Light Thrown. Bigger things requiring two hands to comfortably throw would be Heavy Thrown.

That's just my rule of thumb, though, and splendid answer, Puget.


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## ForbidenMaster (Jul 23, 2009)

Do note that an improvised thrown weapon must weigh 1lb.  Anything larger or smaller then that must be left up to the DM.  This time it was a sword, next time it might be a rock, but I doubt that anyone thinks that throwing a sword is the same a throwing a rock or even a 12lb Maul.


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## pollochicken (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks for the replies everyone.  Puget, you're advice seems to be exactly what I was looking for and I think it will work great the next time this comes up.  Thanks again.


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## ofalltrades (Aug 27, 2009)

Do you guys think that the Dmg should change if im throwing something heavy. I mean as it stands now.

Thrown bottle 1d4 dmg
Thrown greatsword 1d4 dmg.

that just seems off to me.


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## Kestrel (Aug 27, 2009)

There's a magic item that lets you do this as an encounter power.  Hand Slot Dwarven Throwers.  (I think thats the name)  Allows you to chuck a non-ranged weapon as a ranged basic attack, adding str mods like a Heavy Thrown Weapon.


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## Mort_Q (Aug 27, 2009)

ofalltrades said:


> that just seems off to me.




Only in that it should be a lot harder to hit someone with a thrown sword.   

Personally... if they PCs start throwing swords around, I'd have the NPCs pick 'em up and attack them with 'em.

-1 to hit and +1 to damage per pound sound fair?


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## ForbidenMaster (Aug 27, 2009)

ofalltrades said:


> Do you guys think that the Dmg should change if im throwing something heavy. I mean as it stands now.
> 
> Thrown bottle 1d4 dmg
> Thrown greatsword 1d4 dmg.
> ...




Actually, as it stands now you cannot throw a greatsword as an improvised thrown weapon.  The damage doesnt need to change, we simply either need rules for throwing objects of differing weights, or we will have to rely on DMG page 42 and DM discretion.


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## AbdulAlhazred (Aug 27, 2009)

ForbidenMaster said:


> Actually, as it stands now you cannot throw a greatsword as an improvised thrown weapon.  The damage doesnt need to change, we simply either need rules for throwing objects of differing weights, or we will have to rely on DMG page 42 and DM discretion.




I think you're being a bit too literal minded about it. I agree, items of drastically different weights may not make suitable improvised weapons, but I really seriously doubt the intention of the "1lb" entry there was to state that ONLY an item of exactly one pound can make an effective thrown improvised weapon. 

Beyond that, the weights for weapons in the PHB etc are patently absurd anyway. A 12 lb maul would be utterly impossible to wield in any effective manner whatsoever. You could probably swing it, and someone with a 20 STR could certainly manage to cart it around and make a moderately credible swing with it, but it would be VASTLY inferior to a lighter weapon in every respect. Given that there is nothing realistic about the weights of melee weapons in 4e there is just no point in spoiling people's fun by applying realistic criteria to improvised weapons (thrown or otherwise).


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## Khime (Aug 28, 2009)

AbdulAlhazred said:


> Beyond that, the weights for weapons in the PHB etc are patently absurd anyway. A 12 lb maul would be utterly impossible to wield in any effective manner whatsoever. You could probably swing it, and someone with a 20 STR could certainly manage to cart it around and make a moderately credible swing with it, but it would be VASTLY inferior to a lighter weapon in every respect. Given that there is nothing realistic about the weights of melee weapons in 4e there is just no point in spoiling people's fun by applying realistic criteria to improvised weapons (thrown or otherwise).



It's not the maul's fault that 12 lb is a realistic weight.  People 'wield' them all the time for fence work and wood splitting, and don't take more than a second or two to ready for another swing.


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## babinro (Aug 28, 2009)

Personally I like to use the chart on pg 42 of the DMG for damage on these rare situations.  

The thrower would either get a +0 to the STR on heavy objects or +0 Dex on Light objects.  If the object seems very unwieldy then I'd impose a additional -2 or -5 penalty accordingly on the attack role. 

Example: Throwing a Chair, +0 STR, low damage as per pg 42 char level DMG Range 3-6

Throwing an unconscious Halfing Minion into another creature: -2 STR, Medium damage as per DMG. Range 3-6


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