# Opinions on EN World commercialisation



## Psionicist

Hello there fellows.

This is a thread. It's a serious thread and it's an important thread. This is the thread where to discuss the commercialisation of EN World, something I know there are split feelings about. Write your opinions of the subject here, before it's too late.

Here is my opinion; Commercialisation might be the wrong word here, anyway, I think it's a GREAT idea! It's indeed a very smart way to deal with server costs and things like that, to keep EN World going on and on and on forever. Think about it! I can see more competitions, updated software, faster servers - everything good! Lots of credits to Morrus and RPG Shop for this move 

So, what are your opinions? I mean, this is a _chage_ and there are always opinions on changes. What do you think, is it good, bad, ugly? Write it all in here!

Sincerely
- Psionicist


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## Morrus

It's the side of things that I don't like.  It changes running this site from a hobby to 'work'.  

But the sad fact is that I need to dip into various pies in order to cover basic costs - hopefully I can make sure that all of those pies are useful and/or relevant to the people who visit.  I'm fairly strict on the ads I'll accept, for example, although it would be possible to raise more funds by lowering those standards.

And also, the shop is something that has been requested time and time again.  I would have liked to work with Derek (Talon Comics) on it, as he is a long-standing community member, but he wasn't tempted by the idea, unfortunately.


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## Umbran

I certainly don't think there's anythign wrong with making branded merchandise available, and pumping the revenue back into the site.  These things arent cheap.

Really, it's the same principle as making a donation to a PBS station.  You pay some money, get a nifty item, and support something you like at the same time.

The only real issue is the matter of sustainability - EN World is a fairly small community.  Will it be long until everyone who wants branded merchandise will have bought it?


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## EricNoah

Really it's the same deal as when I was pimping Amazon.com.  As long as it's not "in your face" all the time, and as long as the site maintains a high level of integrity (which is certainly has thus far), I see no problem with it.  People have long had a choice between their local game shops, chain book stores, big online merchants like Amazon, little online merchants like Talon, and now they have one more choice.  If it means the site can stay open and continue to be a resource to the D&D community I'm all for it.

The one argument I could see against it would be in the area of tying the review system too closely to the purchasing system.  In the short run an unscrupulous person might be tempted to make sure the good reviews got seen and the bad ones didn't, to increase sales.  Over the long run, though, the integrity of the site (the honesty to say "this product sucks, don't buy it even if I would make money off of the sale") will be what attracts repeat visitors and repeat buyers.  I'm sure we'll have no problems in this arena.

Finally I would urge Morrus to be careful -- if your new business partner isn't shooting straight with you at some point, be ready to cut them lose.  They need you more than you need them.


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## EricNoah

Umbran said:
			
		

> *I certainly don't think there's anythign wrong with making branded merchandise available, and pumping the revenue back into the site.  These things arent cheap.*




Well we're not just talking about EN t-shirts here, Morrus will be opening an e-commerce deally where he will partner up with an online store to sell stuff through his site, get a commision, etc.  I think that's more the thrust of Psionicist's question.


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## Emiricol

Commercialization of best game site on the net, if it means the site stays open:  GOOD.

I can think of at least one community project that will result in either a free product or an inexpensive product where the limited profits go back into this community rather than someone's pocketbook.

Of course, in my ideal world the ecommerce portion of ENWorld gets split up by system, then by category (setting/module/expansion, for example).  Because, just, DAMN it is a stone-cold bizzich trying to keep track of what is out there.  There's gotta be like 10 products I'd buy if I could just remember what they were  

The "sorting by publisher" structure 'suxxors' or whatever.  It is just a HORRID idea when it comes to a web store.  DON'T DO IT!  JUST SAY NO!


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## graydoom

I see commercialization of ENBoards as at worst a neutral thing, and at best a great thing. Either I like none of the products but other people do, and they support the site with their purchases, which works out fine for me because I can just ignore the buying/selling parts and the site still gets supported; or I like some of the products, in which case the board is supported and I get some cool new thing for D&D!

If it keeps the site open and helps Morrus, good.
If I can buy cool stuff, even better.


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## Umbran

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *
> Well we're not just talking about EN t-shirts here... *




Yes, as I have just discovered.  Serves me right for reading the Meta forum first, I guess  

The principle is mostly the same - you can sell branded T-shirts, cupcakes, gaming materials....

As you note, there are a number of folks hereabouts who are actually in the business of making RPGs.  But if the store's operation does not influence the review section or the message boards, there should be no issue. 

After all, it's really no different than letting, say, Amazon.com advertise at the site (except that this is probably more efficient, economically.  If it's run as yet another service - making rpg stuff available to the community, it should be a bonus


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## Wicht

Well as a full blown capitalist myself i gotta say I am all for it... provided of course that the selling of merchandise does not change the way the rest of the board operates.


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## Darkness

I'm all for it. Morrus works _very_ hard for this site, and him having also to pay money for it is just not okay AFAIC.


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## Agnostic Paladin

Its all good.

I can't see anyone having complaints about this other than some vague notion of it opening up the possibility of influencing the site in general or the review section specifically to try and increase sales. But that doesn't make the commercialization a bad thing. (If abuse happened, the abuse would be a bad thing, but I'm not even concerned that it might.)


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## Eosin the Red

My meaningless opinion!

I guess I don't know the whole story yet, but I have some suspsions. I have stong feelings about supporting my local game store. They are there for me, providing we with a place to meet other gamers, get goodies and all of the other cool stuff they do. 

ENworld in all of its incarnations, does the same thing. I spend several hours of my work day checking various forums and looking at who is playing what. I socialize (some, I am kinda quiet). Why shouldn't I feel exactly the same for ENworld as I do for my local shop? 

The more I think about it, the more the idea seems natural to me. I would hate to think of Morrus going bankrupt over my crack....I mean ENworld habit.

Hope to see an announcement soon.


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## Horacio

Every morning, when I arrive at work, I begin with the General forum, so I posted there what I should/would like having posted here:

Hey, Morrus, I think you've slipped now...
You live in U.K., right? I live in France. In this boards there are people from U.K., France, Spain, Sweden... All have the same problem when buying online: shipping costs!
At least $10-15 for a book, that means almost doubling the price!. But if we buy from a U.K. store shipping goes down to 1-2£ for UK citizens to 3-4£ for European... more interesting, not?
So, why, in the name of all European board members, base your online stuff in the US???? They already have hundres of online stores!!!!!!  We, poor European, would have appreciated an UK based store. I'd had loved it! 
So, please, Morrus, think about it, O.K.?
And, of course, nothing of the above can be considered an attack against yu or ENWorld. I know you spend hours and hours in here, making all of this work, and I thank you vehemently. You're great!
I'd only love an European ENWorld store...


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## Someguy

I agree....It could be a real good Idea.
Let's hope it all goes smoothly.


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## Morrus

Horacio said:
			
		

> *Every morning, when I arrive at work, I begin with the General forum, so I posted there what I should/would like having posted here:
> 
> Hey, Morrus, I think you've slipped now...
> You live in U.K., right? I live in France. In this boards there are people from U.K., France, Spain, Sweden... All have the same problem when buying online: shipping costs!
> At least $10-15 for a book, that means almost doubling the price!. But if we buy from a U.K. store shipping goes down to 1-2£ for UK citizens to 3-4£ for European... more interesting, not?
> So, why, in the name of all European board members, base your online stuff in the US???? They already have hundres of online stores!!!!!!  We, poor European, would have appreciated an UK based store. I'd had loved it!
> So, please, Morrus, think about it, O.K.?
> And, of course, nothing of the above can be considered an attack against yu or ENWorld. I know you spend hours and hours in here, making all of this work, and I thank you vehemently. You're great!
> I'd only love an European ENWorld store... *




Unfortunately, I don't have a convenient warehouse full of RPG stuff in my back garden.  This owuld require an already-existing online store to make a deal with.

If anyone knows of one who might be willing to do a similar deal for Europe, I'd be interested.


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## CRGreathouse

EN World commercialization?  It's a great thing.  I don't have a local store right now, not without driving for over an hour, so I might use it.

Even if I didn't use it, others might, which goes to a higher purpose: keeping the site running.  Go Morrus!


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## Horacio

Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't have a convenient warehouse full of RPG stuff in my back garden.  This owuld require an already-existing online store to make a deal with.
> 
> If anyone knows of one who might be willing to do a similar deal for Europe, I'd be interested. *




I know a pair of good online stores at U.K., maybe they would be interested. Send me an e-mail to this address if you're int'erested (let's hope you're  ).


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## LcKedovan

Horacio said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I know a pair of good online stores at U.K., maybe they would be interested. Send me an e-mail to this address if you're int'erested (let's hope you're  ). *




Well, I have to say once again the Horacigon has spoken with my voice also. I fully support the idea of an online store, but us people in Europe are constantly on the shaft-end of the stick. When Talon was first on here I saw it as a way to get cool stuff directly without having to hunt for it etc. etc. but the shipping really makes it hard for me. It's hard when you aren't living in London next to the Orc's Nest for example  and of the people on the board the Europeans are usually the ones without a decent local store. Anyhow, I think a European shopping site would be a big advantage to us Morrus, and I know that in addition to me, at least 2 colleagues (who don't use the board) who use Amazon currently would also use this one.

-Will


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## TalonComics

For the record, I was interested in working out something but the last time I had heard anything regarding this was over 6 months ago. Between all the server moving, boards changing and things like that I honestly didn't expect anything like this to be remotely ready to be worked on.

But that's life.

EN World is a great place to hang out! 
Hopefully I'll still be welcome here and things won't be any different than they have been. I still plan on doing what I normally do. 

~Derek


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## Horacio

TalonComics said:
			
		

> *EN World is a great place to hang out!
> Hopefully I'll still be welcome here and things won't be any different than they have been. I still plan on doing what I normally do.
> 
> ~Derek *




And I hope you will continue doing it, Derek!
And I will continue buying from you, of course (For the record I've tried RPGShop.com once and their shipping charges to Europe are crazily high, and Derek's service and costumer care are top of the top!).


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## LcKedovan

TalonComics said:
			
		

> *
> EN World is a great place to hang out!
> Hopefully I'll still be welcome here and things won't be any different than they have been. I still plan on doing what I normally do.
> 
> ~Derek *





It would be a sad day if things did change! I have a funny feeling there is no worries in that regard though  

What _IS_ your shipping to Europe like these days Derek?!?! 

-Will


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## MythandLore

I wont mind unless there are pop up adds, pop up adds suck.


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## Information

*There is hope*

If you want to join an ongoing Liberation movement you are welcome. Go here:

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2177

Please e-mail me or post a reply indicating what role you would like to play.

The Liberation Front
Dedicated to the Overthrow of Morrus

User Name & Role
Crothian: Executioner
Holy Bovine: Troll-Basher and Taking Their Shoes


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## Holy Bovine

HEY!  Its Troll-Basher and Taking Their Shoes,  Mr. Information.  Maybe we should start a revolution to overthrow YOU


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## EricNoah

> Information wrote:
> Many dark months ago, I predicted that Morrus would lead us away from the kingdom of light that Eric established, straight into a nihilistic void of nagging despair and suffering.




Really?  Was I on vacation or just napping when this prophecy was delivered?  'Cause it seems like I woulda remembered that one...

PS -- Dont' forget to visit my website and buy from Amazon.com!


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## Information

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Really?  Was I on vacation or just napping when this prophecy was delivered?  'Cause it seems like I woulda remembered that one...
> 
> PS -- Dont' forget to visit my website and buy from Amazon.com!   *




N...N...Noah?! Your alive!!

The post was made in the twilight of your glorious site. I predicted, correctly, that Morrus would lead us into oppression and despair.


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## EricNoah

Information said:
			
		

> *
> 
> N...N...Noah?! Your alive!!
> 
> The post was made in the twilight of your glorious site. I predicted, correctly, that Morrus would lead us into oppression and despair. *




Oh, well I was pretty distracted I guess.  But you totally nailed it!  (Except for the oppression and despair part).


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## Information

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Oh, well I was pretty distracted I guess.  But you totally nailed it!  (Except for the oppression and despair part). *




I scarce believe mine eyes!

Why don't you join my Liberation Front and help me end the tyranny and despondency? I could use a man like you... with resources and resolve.


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## Cyberzombie

I'm all for commercialization!  Getting advertising is tougher than I ever thought it would be, so the more ways Morrus can get income, the better.


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## EricNoah

Information said:
			
		

> *
> Why don't you join my Liberation Front and help me end the tyranny and despondency? I could use a man like you... with resources and resolve. *




Oh, man, well you know that you and I go way way back, but   .... um ... I think I have to wash my hair that night.


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## Henry

Information - I would like the official position in your organization as official Junk-kicker and wallet-taker.

While I do not condone your organization or its cause, I've never been anyone's official Junk-Kicker and Wallet-Taker before.


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## EricNoah

Henry said:
			
		

> *Information - I would like the official position in your organization as official Junk-kicker and wallet-taker.
> 
> While I do not condone your organization or its cause, I've never been anyone's official Junk-Kicker and Wallet-Taker before.  *




Ah ha, the means apparently justify the ends!


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## Morrus

Latest scoop:

In the first step of Information's coup, he has already arranged to take on the entire financial burden of running this site.  Although I fought valiantly, I could not hope to match his rebellious strategies, and have been forced to agree to send all invoices to him henceforth.


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## graydoom

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Latest scoop:
> 
> In the first step of Information's coup, he has already arranged to take on the entire financial burden of running this site.  Although I fought valiantly, I could not hope to match his rebellious strategies, and have been forced to agree to send all invoices to him henceforth.
> 
> *



Nice! Could you arrange it so I get all the profits? I have a nice bank account set up for it in the Cayman Islands... .


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## ColonelHardisson

What strike me as odd is that someone called "Information" would be totally surprised that Eric is still posting here. I mean, he's not here as often (duh - otherwise why give up the site?), but I can't think of an extended stretch of time he disappeared from the boards after Morrus took over.

Besides, if you don't like how Morrus does things, why not make your own site? Seems like revolutionaries are always wanting to blow up _other_ peoples' stuff.


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## Information

Henry said:
			
		

> *Information - I would like the official position in your organization as official Junk-kicker and wallet-taker.
> 
> While I do not condone your organization or its cause, I've never been anyone's official Junk-Kicker and Wallet-Taker before.  *




C'mon on August-Henry!

You have just been given the post. Congratulations on entering the most revolutionary movement in the history of humanity.

Information


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## Information

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> *What strike me as odd is that someone called "Information" would be totally surprised that Eric is still posting here. I mean, he's not here as often (duh - otherwise why give up the site?), but I can't think of an extended stretch of time he disappeared from the boards after Morrus took over.
> 
> Besides, if you don't like how Morrus does things, why not make your own site? Seems like revolutionaries are always wanting to blow up other peoples' stuff. *




My informants told me that the man posting at this site was a Morrusian agent posing as Noah. Rather than kill Noah (which would make a martyr out of him), they opted for kidnapping.

But really, Colonel, you take things way too seriously...


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## Poster Bard

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> *What strike me as odd is that someone called "Information" would be totally surprised that Eric is still posting here. I mean, he's not here as often (duh - otherwise why give up the site?), but I can't think of an extended stretch of time he disappeared from the boards after Morrus took over.
> 
> Besides, if you don't like how Morrus does things, why not make your own site? Seems like revolutionaries are always wanting to blow up other peoples' stuff. *




He's right!  Hey, Information?  I think you have to step down.  You need someone with this intelligence to be in charge of your revolution!


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## gubaru

Information,

I'd like the role of traitor to the Liberation. I've been thinking and every good revolution needs a traitor. After all, the American Revolution just wouldn't be the same without Benedict Arnold.

Besides, this way when you win history will look back and marvel at how you pulled this off despite that damn gubaru. (Of course, if you don't I get to be the savior but I digress.) Think about it--your legend grows and I finally get to bask in glorious infamy!!


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## Holy Bovine

_ Holy Bovine leaps back into the thread taking gubaru totally by surprise.  Swinging his Louisville Slugger wildly the enraged cow misses gubaru completely and smacks Information in the back of the head.  Not realizing his 'mistake' Holy Bovine rips off Information's shoes and runs back out of the thread_


I got them!!!!!!!!


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## ColonelHardisson

Information said:
			
		

> *
> 
> But really, Colonel, you take things way too seriously... *




Umm, I don't suppose you you were around for those truly ugly, no-kidding-around threads which accused Morrus of all manner of chicanery? The ones that turned into huge flame-wars that nearly consumed the boards? The ones that were remarkably similar to your apparently joking-around threads?

Maybe I do take things too seriously sometimes. In this case, given some of the crap Morrus and the mods have been inflicted with over the past few months, I don't think so. Especially after you had two theads quickly closed. Either I'm out of step or you are. If I am, then I apologize.


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## Darkness

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> Maybe I do take things too seriously sometimes. In this case, given some of the crap Morrus and the mods have been inflicted with over the past few months, I don't think so.



I can speak only for myself, and not for the Moderators that were handling this at that time, but I want to thank you for the support, Colonel!


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## Mark

Darkness said:
			
		

> *I can speak only for myself, and not for the Moderators that were handling this at that time, but I want to thank you for the support, Colonel!  *




As a former moderator I also would like to thank Col_H for his continual support of the boards and the moderators who freely give their time to help keep them fun.  There were a lot of fun times but it's can also be a lot of work.  It's not an easy job and I'm glad, at times, that I no longer have the burden.


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