# RPG Software Forum



## Vascant (Aug 1, 2005)

We really need to get this topic away from the Playstation and Warcraft games.  They are not even closely related.  This is an area that has been sorely understated, I mean we are in the year 2005 and people act like it is 1985.  It is bad enough that the current location is so far to the bottom that most never even visit but then to have RPG Software topics get swallowed up by a few tech questions such as "Help me buy a video card", "Which game should I buy next" and "Warcraft guild".  Publishers have their own forum and 3 sub forums.


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## pogre (Aug 1, 2005)

It's really a question of traffic Vascant. I only go to the forum to check out software support for d20 games - like your fine NPC program, but I don't know if there is enough to support a separate forum.


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## IronWolf (Aug 1, 2005)

The "Software, Computers & D&D Utilities" forum is a pretty low traffic forum as is.  To split it up even further would only hurt I would think.  When I checked today there are still topics from 7/21/2005 on the first page, so I wouldn't consider that swallowing up other topics.

This is a great case for the use of the Categories feature Michael has in place.  If someone wants to see only information about RPG Tools then they can select to only see that category.  It works great for only seeing threads you want to see without the need to further dilute the existing forum into sub-forums.

My 2 coppers.


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## Vascant (Aug 1, 2005)

*chuckles* I will be the first to admit.. I have no idea what the traffic would be but I think it is more about principle rather then practical.  I think this is one of those topics where numbers do not directly mean if something should be done or not done.  

Example (I love examples):  NPC Designer.. if going by numbers it is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever coded in my life.  11 months of work and only had 5 people seriously interested in it enough to get involved on a regular basis.  By regular I mean post once a week for atleast 2 months of the 11.  According to those numbers, it is a bad idea.. very bad.  

Thats the point.. How many projects have died because of what seemed like lack of interest?  Thanks for the comment but NPC Designer can't be fine.. only 5 people even like it.  Based on that number it is insane to even consider going commercial nevermind free.  Is putting up a topic forum really worth good projects becoming vaper ware?   Then again, thats a very general statement and could apply to anything.. *laughs*


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## Belen (Aug 1, 2005)

More advertising in "General" would be nice.  I barely here anything e-aids for d20 products.


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## Vascant (Aug 1, 2005)

Personally I don't even know if thats allowed..

Lets not forget, pretty lame as well.  In truth, I do not get many refering traffic from enworld, kind of funny I get more from porn sites then enworld, don't ask me why because I have yet to figure it out myself.


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## Knight Otu (Aug 1, 2005)

Personally, I believe that seperate, more visible(!) forum for RPG Tools would be extremely helpful for both customers and programmers. It was only by chance that I found out about Vascant's NPC Designer - pretty much *the *most versatile NPC/Monster Statblock Generator existing. And it hardly ever really received the attention it deserves.

When looking at Jamis Buck's NPC Generator, I'd often think "Man, I wished this could handle XYZ..."
With Vascant's program, I think "OK, XYZ should be quick to script. I'll copy a similar script, and start modifying in the relevant changes."

And if I almost missed a tool that good - I don't know what other tools I might have missed.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Aug 1, 2005)

IronWolf said:
			
		

> The "Software, Computers & D&D Utilities" forum is a pretty low traffic forum as is.  To split it up even further would only hurt I would think.  When I checked today there are still topics from 7/21/2005 on the first page, so I wouldn't consider that swallowing up other topics.




Agree.  



			
				IronWolf said:
			
		

> This is a great case for the use of the Categories feature Michael has in place.  If someone wants to see only information about RPG Tools then they can select to only see that category.  It works great for only seeing threads you want to see without the need to further dilute the existing forum into sub-forums.




Ditto. 



			
				Vascant said:
			
		

> Lets not forget, pretty lame as well.  In truth, I do not get many refering traffic from enworld, kind of funny I get more from porn sites then enworld, don't ask me why because I have yet to figure it out myself.




Most of the Internet is porn... 

Honesty, I have no issues with the way the forum is being used.  Though, I do wish people would post more in that forum as its one of my favorite to read outside of the PbP forums.


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## rom90125 (Aug 2, 2005)

Vascant said:
			
		

> We really need to get this topic away from the Playstation and Warcraft games.  They are not even closely related.  This is an area that has been sorely understated, I mean we are in the year 2005 and people act like it is 1985.  It is bad enough that the current location is so far to the bottom that most never even visit but then to have RPG Software topics get swallowed up by a few tech questions such as "Help me buy a video card", "Which game should I buy next" and "Warcraft guild".  Publishers have their own forum and 3 sub forums.




I totally agree.  The proposed forum could possibly extend to user/tester support for the aforementioned rpg tools...


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## Vascant (Aug 2, 2005)

Granted I do see the point of.. Will it really have a lot of traffic.. Probably not a ton of it no but thats kind of the point, like Otu made.  How many good projects have been missed?  There is a ton of data and small projects out there that just get swallowed up by normal forum banter.  Maybe the moderators here do not understand software development nor what it takes to create decent software.  I am constantly wondering if I am wasting my time because of lack of interest in something I am coding, this is not some 8 page PDF I created over a weekend.

Perhaps a better solution if traffic is the only qualifier used, open up the publishing forums to RPG Software Developers?  This may be a better approach..


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 2, 2005)

I don't think there's nearly enough to justify a whole separate forum. Instead, you'll just have to live with it like those of us who write story hours and aren't one of the 'big names'. We don't get many comments, but there are always at least a small, core group for everything that are always there to support it.

And besides, who's to say getting a whole new forum would garner anymore attention?


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## RedShirtNo5 (Aug 2, 2005)

Vascant said:
			
		

> Granted I do see the point of.. Will it really have a lot of traffic.. Probably not a ton of it no but thats kind of the point, like Otu made. How many good projects have been missed? There is a ton of data and small projects out there that just get swallowed up by normal forum banter. Maybe the moderators here do not understand software development nor what it takes to create decent software.



Personally, what I think might make sense is a RPG/D&D utility forum, not specifically software. This could be used for discussion of software, including cartography programs, combat trackers and PC/NPC generators, as well as physical components such as battle boxes, initiative index cards, and monster tokens, and composite things like projector schemes.



			
				Vascant said:
			
		

> I am constantly wondering if I am wasting my time because of lack of interest in something I am coding, this is not some 8 page PDF I created over a weekend.



Don't confuse silence with lack of interest. I've followed for a long time. I registered and downloaded a few weeks ago. Keep in mind the following
-NPC generation is uniformly listed as the most time-consuming portion of the DM's job, particularly at high level. "Build it, and they will come." 
-For many or even most, the key limitation is time. I would willingly pay for your program. I'm not going to commit to coding that I don't have time to do.
-Other tools have been around for five years. Yours is just a year old now? The pool of available coders may already be dedicated to existing tools.
-People have been burned before by software and NPC programs. E-tools? Even PCGen doesn't handle monster advancement correctly last I checked. There's a certain exhaustion level.

-RedShirt


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## Morrus (Aug 2, 2005)

Like all new forums here, if the traffic warrants it it may get a forum of its own.  Looking at the forum in question, the traffic really doesn't warrant its own forum.

What I don't want to do is to subdivide EN World so much that it becomes a massive collection of tiny, little-used forums.  The same arguments can be used for any forum here, most of which have a variety of things discussed in them.

Essentially, we're not about creating conversation or trying to get people to have certain types of conversation - we're about facilitating the conversation which takes place.


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## Vascant (Aug 2, 2005)

RS5:  I think all I can say is.. I agree.. Completely!

For the better part of 2 years I avoided coding what I have today simply because I knew the amount of time it would take to do it right would be the better part of a year and that would be just for the foundation of it.  

I didn't mean just software but instead did mean what was listed, many different aspects from mapping to counters.  I do think we if we treat this subject in the same breath we treat a Warcraft guild, then you are going to get that quality and type of results.  Thats why I even added, maybe it could be grouped with the publishers forum, after all both aim to create products or material for the d20/RPG industry.  

After some thought I am not a good person to lead this charge since it can be viewed as a conflict of interest, so I letting it drop.  Besides, I have my hands full as it is just getting people to realize, NPC Designer is not like JB's NPC Generator.


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## Michael Morris (Aug 2, 2005)

Vascant said:
			
		

> RS5:  I think all I can say is.. I agree.. Completely!
> 
> For the better part of 2 years I avoided coding what I have today simply because I knew the amount of time it would take to do it right would be the better part of a year and that would be just for the foundation of it.




Trust me - having a few thousand people counting on your code to work right day in and day out is no picnic either 

As languages go, PHP is very forgiving - but I still have one heck of a task in front of me and more projects then I can count.


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## Vascant (Aug 3, 2005)

*chuckles* 

I have a dislike for most web related coding, just a personal thing because I find it boring for the most part.  What do you expect though, I code applications.

Though from a gaming/hobby stand point I cannot really relate, from a professional aspect though I do understand when someone's life depends upon the code you have created, very much so.

Until now I really did not understand what software projects and developers go thru in this industry, after getting my feet wet and experiencing where the problems exist I feel it is in not just my best interest but in the industry's best interest to resolve.  Maybe giving software and such it's own forum is not the right answer and perhaps mixing it with something better suited and geared towards to the creation of new material is a better home.  I do look at it like this, the current placement is wrong and only hurts.

Anyways, just my opinion on the matter


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## Dinkeldog (Aug 3, 2005)

And don't worry, Vascant, that Warcraft guild thread should be disappearing in the next day or so.


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## frog (Aug 3, 2005)

Vascant said:
			
		

> Example (I love examples):  NPC Designer.. if going by numbers it is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever coded in my life.  11 months of work and only had 5 people seriously interested in it enough to get involved on a regular basis.  By regular I mean post once a week for atleast 2 months of the 11.  According to those numbers, it is a bad idea.. very bad.




Just a bit of feedback for you...I have played with the program a bit and think it is leaps and bounds above any other d20 software I have seen. It is a much needed tool. Unfortunately, I have been on gaming haiatus for about 6 to 8 months and haven't had a need to do much more than look at it briefly.

I don't feel you have wasted your time. I think you are creating something great. I have only purchased one piece of RPG software (Herodesigner v. 2 - IMO a truly outstanding program. If anyone wants to see what can be done with a character designing program, you should look at the demo even if you don't use HERO System.) but I consider your program one worthy of spending my hard earned $ on...even if I don't play often enough to really justify spending money on any gaming software at all.


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## Vascant (Aug 3, 2005)

I will have to take a look at the HeroDesigner then..  One of my main things against most PC related software is that everyone seems to work against you and not with you.  Thank you for your words as well 

The idea of this forum isn't for NPC Designer though, it's for that unknown project we all missed out on or the one in 2 weeks someone will probably start.  We need fresh ideas, creative thinkers.  How many people have a webpaged bookmarked because it simple rocks, I know I have a few.  If if it is just our words, we should donate to the cause and effort people put forth.  


As for Warcraft, I have nothing against it... lord knows we all have our crack.. Mine is tribes 1.  I am just trying to fix a flaw I experienced while creating NPC Designer.  

My view is pretty simple, I have noticed with NPC Designer it has been next to impossible to even get on Enworld's news.  Seems to not mater who I speak to or email, it just doesn't get there.  Now I am not about to go into the General room and advertise, bad form in my opinion and threads to get swallowed up very fast in any of the forums.. Except in Publishers, I can get information going back months very easily there because there just isn't the traffic to kill threads.  RPG Utilities need the same consideration.. in my opinion.  Of course my opinion is kind of directed at what I enjoy


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## IronWolf (Aug 3, 2005)

Vascant said:
			
		

> My view is pretty simple, I have noticed with NPC Designer it has been next to impossible to even get on Enworld's news.  Seems to not matter who I speak to or email, it just doesn't get there.




Have you submitted a news scoop from the link at the left side of the main page?  That's how the PC Gen and other software updates make the main page.  They show up in the scoop queue and one of us news hounds gets it posted.


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## Vascant (Aug 4, 2005)

Don't know exactly what you are talking about but I have emailed.. I am going to leave it at that because it isn't the point.

Whatever I went thru I can't be alone, so I know if I have tried and failed, others have.  Maybe people are busy, maybe people do not care, maybe users are not educated as to what they need to do exactly.  I can only speak for myself there, I have always emailed someone and it happened.. I believe twice.. then suddenly stopped.

I just chalk it up to perhaps not interesting or not news worthy, it is hard for me to say because I do it everyday and so it is important to me.  In other words, I have a very biased opinion.  I look at it like this, if someone thinks I am doing something worth putting in the news, let me know and let me know how to tell you what else I am doing so make it easy on you, othersize I keep doing what I am doing (Which can't be to bad, 46 copies have sold since yesterday morning).

Anyways, the point is I do kind of agree with some points made that perhaps RPG Software and Utilities does not need it's own forum which is why I offered the other idea as a possible solution.  After all, in life we should always seek to find ways to improve not just ourselves but those around us as well.  So if I can help make it better for the next project, I am game


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## IronWolf (Aug 4, 2005)

Vascant said:
			
		

> I look at it like this, if someone thinks I am doing something worth putting in the news, let me know and let me know how to tell you what else I am doing so make it easy on you, othersize I keep doing what I am doing (Which can't be to bad, 46 copies have sold since yesterday morning).




I've stated before I think your tool is very nice and certainly newsworthy when you hit your milestones.  So, to make sure things aren't missed (which can easily happen if only emails are being sent) here is the best way to make sure your product releases make the news page.

Go to the main page of EN World.  On the left side is a link called "Submit a Scoop".  If you click that you can post a news item.  From there it will go into a queue that the newshounds here moderate and post news from.

I am only trying to help, you mentioned you couldn't get your tool listed on the front page news and I trying to help you get that done in the most efficient manner as possible.


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## Vascant (Aug 4, 2005)

Thank you, ages ago I did that and I think it was more my mess up as to why it didn't do anything or go anywhere but I did have a question.  Do I give you what I want to see as the news, or just the scoop and let the creativity of the news person handle the rest?


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## IronWolf (Aug 4, 2005)

Vascant said:
			
		

> Thank you, ages ago I did that and I think it was more my mess up as to why it didn't do anything or go anywhere but I did have a question.  Do I give you what I want to see as the news, or just the scoop and let the creativity of the news person handle the rest?




People do it either way.  Some submit their press release which ends up getting edited down to a shorter format.  Others have been submitting long enough to submit in a brief format that follows some of the style guidelines.  If what you submit needs edited we can take care of it, if it looks good as is we can go from there.  I would probably submit with what you want to see as news and then realize we may edit it down a little or just quote a particular snippet of the submission that makes the main page.


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## Vascant (Aug 4, 2005)

Outstanding, thank you and greatly appreciated.


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