# Mind Flayer - Drow relationship



## catsclaw227 (Jul 24, 2005)

Hello All!

I was wondering if there are some books/threads/fan-stuff out there that describes teh relationship between Drow and Mind Flayers.

I don't have the Quintessential Drow or Tome of the Drow by Mongoose, my copy of Plot and Poison by Green Ronin has gone amissin' but I do have Complete Book of Drow from Goodman games.

I understand that there is a book by Paradigm concepts called Unveiled Masters (a mind flayer book) but funds are low right now. Are there different looks into the Illithid society? Supposedly Unveiled Masters went slightly away from canon, and I may be interested in that one, but I wonder how the Drow and Mind Flayers coexists with both being power-hungry, cunning masters of the underdark.  I don't like the "misunderstood race" thing the drow went through in the past few years; I prefer the sadistic, decadent, matriarchial megalomaniacal side of them.

But have they ever reprodiced with each other?  Do their "houses" ever come together as a common front against the surface dwellers?  Is their hatred of each other too deep?

What about their machinations against each other?  How do Dueregar fit into this?

Has anyone put together something about this Drow - Illithid relationship?

Catsclaw

(edited for some really bad typing)


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## wingsandsword (Jul 24, 2005)

catsclaw227 said:
			
		

> I understand that there is a book by Paradigm concepts called Unveiled Masters (a mind lfay book) but funds are low right now. Are there different looks into the Illithid society? Supposedly Unveiled Masters went slightly away from canon, and I may be interested in that one, but I wonder how the Drow and Mind Flayers coexists with both being power-hungry, cunning masters of the underdark.  I don't like the "misunderstood race" thing the drow went through in the past few years; I prefer the sadistic, decadent, matriarchial megalomaniacal side of them.
> 
> But have they ever reprodiced with each other?  Do their "houses" ever come together as a common front against the surface dwellers?  Is their hatred of each other too deep?



Well, Mind Flayers never make alliances with anybody else, it's antithetical to their nature.  That which is not Illithid is thrall.   As far as they are concerned, they are the true rulers of all existence, and the "thrall races" are being immature and unreasonable by not recognizing this and fulfilling their role as servants to the Illithid.  If they ever team up with Drow, be under no illusion that it's anything more than a matter of neccesity and convenience to the Illithid, and they will enslave and/or devour the Drow if the opportunity arises and they can get away with it.

Illithid do not sexually reproduce, their produce a clutch of tadpoles which when matured, are introduced into the ear of a restrained humanoid.  The tadpole devours it's way in, consumes most of the brain (growing and gaining sentience in the process), and fuses to the brain stem, while the body metamorphoses over several days into another illithid.  The process obviously utterly kills the victim, and they cannot be brought back with any means short of True Ressurection or a well worded Wish/Miracle.  Thus, Illithid could use drow to reproduce, but the Drow would'nt like it very much.

This was all spelled out in the Illithiad, a 2nd edition sourcebook which was a "big book of mind flayers".  I don't have Codex Anathema Lords of Madness, so I don't know how much was reprinted for 3e though.


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## domino (Jul 24, 2005)

I don't know about the thrall races thing, but the cerenomorphosis is still there.


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## Kae'Yoss (Jul 24, 2005)

I think their relationship can be summed up by three words.

Attack on sight.

Illithids don't have allies, they have cattle, and empty-headed slaves. Or both.


And the drow can't manage to ally with themselves, much less with an enemy power in the Underdark (or whatever your underworld's name is). 


Besides, both races hate the sun like bad commercials, and they limit their activity to short surface raids (though there are exceptions, of course, most notably Vhaeraunan and Eilistraeen drow, but I doubt you ask about them). They don't plan on making any big moves against the sunblasted surface - at least not before they have achieved total domination over the sunless depths.


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## catsclaw227 (Jul 24, 2005)

This whole line of thinking came to me because I wanted to replace a Drow NPC with something more unique.  The cover of Bastards and Bloodlines by Green Ronin has what looks like a 1/2 mind flayer, 1/2 drow Mind Ripper.  The pic was awesome and I knew that's what I wanted for my NPC.  Then I started thinking about ecology and a lot of what I have read didn't make sense.  There is a 1/2 Mind Flayer, 1/2 drow in Complete Book of Drow, yet to use such a creature, one has to ignore all the background info we have on illithid reproduction.  



			
				wingsandsword said:
			
		

> Illithid do not sexually reproduce, their produce a clutch of tadpoles which when matured, are introduced into the ear of a restrained humanoid. The tadpole devours it's way in, consumes most of the brain (growing and gaining sentience in the process), and fuses to the brain stem, while the body metamorphoses over several days into another illithid. The process obviously utterly kills the victim, and they cannot be brought back with any means short of True Ressurection or a well worded Wish/Miracle. Thus, Illithid could use drow to reproduce, but the Drow would'nt like it very much.





From what you say, they don't mate and can't produce hybrids; they instead spawn these tadpoles that are inserted as parasite into a host and will mutate the host into a new illithid after having eaten the host's brain from the inside.  However, I think I read somewhere that the tadpole going into the brain of certain creatures can result in either a) the tadpole and the host both dying, since the host cannot be transformed (I read somewhere that the Illithiad mentions which races fall into this catagory), or b) the host metamorphosizes into a being that isnt an illithid, but has illithid-like qualities (an illithid-kin, if you will). Urophions, which are illithid/ropers, are an example of such beings. I read in an archived thread that there's article in Dragon magazine expanded on the concept, listing a few more such hybrids.

Isn't the tadpole thing called ceremorphesis?

The problem with that half-illithid/half-drow, is that drow are either one of the races that dies when they try to make them illithids, or are transformed into normal illithids (sorry, I cant remember which). Even so though, this doesn`t make the listed creature totally unusable. I think the Dragon article I mentioned talked about a svirfneblin/illithid being. Svirfneblin (deep gnomes) usually just die when illithid tadpoles try to go through ceremorphesis with them, but I read in the thread about the Dragon article, that by using a specific psionic power during the process, allowed the tadpole thing to succeed, and gave the creature new powers. Its feasible that a similar process was used during the creation of the half-drow/half-illithid creatures.

And I remember I have Lords of Darkness now... I need to get into that book again.

Catsclaw


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## jasper (Jul 24, 2005)

your the dm. Read the books and then make up something.


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## catsclaw227 (Jul 24, 2005)

jasper said:
			
		

> your the dm. Read the books and then make up something.




Yea, this is what I am doing. 

Yet I want to make sure my imagination is steeped in some game-reality.  I want to be consistent with what the players may know about the races, yet be unique.  It's not my game, it's all of our game (meaning my game group). Fortunately, I don't have rules-lawyers so I can "make up something", but my own curiosity still goes unfulfilled and I like to continue to educate myself so that my game is better, thus the question.

Catsclaw


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## Nifft (Jul 24, 2005)

There are certainly ways to get hybrids that aren't sexual, especially if your world involves magic.

I'd use some Drow ritual attempting to create a hybrid Illithid for infiltration purposes (or just to get a powerful servant). As with all insane wizard rituals, it went horribly awry, hillarity ensued, complete with zany antics-- er, I mean, hideous mutants.

 -- N


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## painandgreed (Jul 25, 2005)

IMC, the Drow and Illithid don't make allies but they'll put up with you if your money is good. There are various trade points, usually underdark cities, where trade between the two groups is allowed. Both hate each other but aren't willing to let that get in the way of obtaining material components, information, and other items that only the other side can provide. In the Drow cities, anybody is allowed to walk about in the main parts of the city as they please but could be attacked at anytime for being who they are if somebody take offence and are expected to be able to defend themselves in such cases. Defending yourself with too much fevor may be considered "a disturbance" and put down by the guard. Typically, such visitors remian low key and disguised so nobody can find out enough about them to think they can take take them on or they show up with an overwelming display of force and pave the way with bribes. Illithid cities are different as when trade is allowed, there are special segregated areas for traders to live and trade in and are never allowed into the illithid city proper. The illithid cities are somewhat safer as if trade is allowed, they do not want it disrupted and the other traders are too scared of the surrounding illithid to bother eachother. In both cases, the modicum of safety that is had with such trade arrangements can disappear in an instant if hostilities break out between that city and another. In such cases as when hostilities do break out, traders from the opposing city and their allies (real or suspected) are rounded up, their goods taken and probably killed unless their is the possbility of ransom. It is not uncommon for hostilities to break out just after a particularly rich caravan from the soon to be opposed city has arrived.

The illithid don't reproduce to form half-illithid but who knows what their experiments may create? It wouldn't be surprising if some mindflayer tried to create a half illithid/half-drow inorder to provide secret agents that could infiltrate the drow. Not all of such expereiments may be successful but even the failures could be put to work somewhere.


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