# Best Metamagic Feats



## Xeoble (Oct 27, 2005)

I'm hopefully going to be playing a sorcerer or warmage in a 3.5e homebrew campaign and i was wondering what people thought of metamagic and the draconic heritage feats from CA.  So either way, i think i'm going to focus on battlemagic.

What are some good metamagic feats to consider?

Is it worth going down the draconic heritage road?

Thanks.


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## Crothian (Oct 27, 2005)

I like extend, but the feat is not as good for battle magic like you are aiming at.  For the Sorcerer or Warmage I'd just figure out what spells you want to use and then find the meta magic feats tha can apply to the most spells you have.


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## Shallown (Oct 27, 2005)

The sudden ones are cool. I like extend, empower and maximize myself. The most important thing is don't save that once a day use forever. If you have it use it. It may seem like a wasted use later but it may have saved resources you would have other wised used.

Extend is a great feat for those hour long spells and even the per round ones at low level are cool. 

I have thought over the draconic heritage type stuff but not saw much that added to the character unless it was a flavor focusing use. Something that fleshed out the characters style.



Later


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 27, 2005)

My personal faves are Silent Spell, Still Spell & Energy Substitution.

Silent spell keeps you from giving yourself away when you need to be quiet, and prevents the divine spellcaster or assassin with Silence from taking you out like a kitten on Valium.

Still spell lets you cast if bound/immobile, but can also be used if you don't want to be noticed casting a spell, like at a banquet.

Energy Substitution, though, is my favorite for Sorcerers because of the way it interacts with their style of spellcasting.  It doesn't alter the spell's level, and unlike the mage, you can use it on the fly.  Take it once, double the effective number of offensive spells you have (assuming you stick to things that have energy descriptors).  Take it twice and you triple your effectiveness.

Potential sleeper (non-metamagic) feats for ANY PC (if allowed by the DM):  Wild Psionic, Spellfire Wielder.

Wild Psionic (XPH) will qualify your charater for Pyrokineticist, one of the better Psionic PrCls.  4 levels will give your PC the ability to make his hands produce fire, his weapon produce fire, produce a flaming whip of ectoplasm, and fire bolts of fire at 1d6/level (of Pyro).

Spellfire Wielder (FR & MFR) qualifies the PC for a PrCl, but its pretty good by itself.  He'd gain the ability to absorb magic cast at him and either heal with it or throw it back as bolts of raw magic (with NO descriptor)!  It DOES require a good Con to be effective, though.


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## the Jester (Oct 27, 2005)

Empower is fun.  Quicken rules for a wizard, not so much for a spontaneous caster.  I also dig on Maximize. 

I am utterly in love with certain other metamagic feats from non-core sources, especially Transdimensional Spell and Explosive Spell.  Not sure how often you'd actually use 'em though... 

As Dannyalcatraz points out, Energy Substitution is really good for a sorcerer.


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## green slime (Oct 27, 2005)

Quicken, Empower, and Extend IMO


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 27, 2005)

Just remember Quicken spell doesn't work with Sorcerers.

Spell Thematics is another one I enjoy, even though all it really does is affect spellcraft checks.  Can't beat it for coolness!

Some of the racial heritage feats from the Planar Handbook could be useful.

VoP is useful for any PC not planning on wearing armor, but it DOES require comittment and DM approval.

Elemental Spellcasting gives you +1 lvl to air, earth, fire or water spells (choose at time of picking feat).

Dieties and Demigods reprints several feats from various sources that might interest you: Repeat Spell and Eschew Materials spring to mind.

Here's some questions for you...what kind of race are you playing?  What books are being used in the campaign?


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## Mistwell (Oct 27, 2005)

Elemental Spellcasting is from what source?

I personally think Heighten Spell is great for a sorceror (but rotten for a Wizard).

Heighten Spell + Earth Spell (from Races of Stone) is even better.


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## Thanee (Oct 27, 2005)

Empower Spell
Sudden Maximize
Heighten Spell (for the sorcerer)
Extend Spell (for the sorcerer)
Sculpt Spell
Split Ray
Twin Spell
Quicken Spell + Arcane Preparation

Bye
Thanee


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## KarinsDad (Oct 28, 2005)

the Jester said:
			
		

> Empower is fun.  Quicken rules for a wizard, not so much for a spontaneous caster.  I also dig on Maximize.




Maximize is not that good (for an extra spell level) unless combined with Empowered for most spells since most spells are D4 or D6 derivatives. Empowered is nearly as good for the one lower level spell slot (and better in some cases such as Cure spells).

D4 Maximized becomes 4, D4 Empowered averages 3.75 (7% increase)
D6 Maximized becomes 6, D6 Empowered averages 5.25 (14% increase)

Now, higher dice spells/powers end up with better results with Maximize.

For example, Mind Thrust does D10 damage.

D10 Maximized becomes 10, D4 Empowered averages 8.25 (21% increase)


On the other hand, Sudden Maximize is typically better than Sudden Empower. The exceptions to this are spells which have a significant add to the variable dice. For example, Cure spells.

4D8 + 15 Maximized is 47
4D8 + 15 Empowered averages 49.5

But, since Sudden Maximize works better for most spells, it is still better than Sudden Empower.


For some spells, Empower and Maximize are equal. For example, each missile of a Magic Missile spell.

1D4 + 1 Maximized is 5
1D4 + 1 Empowered averages 5


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## Man-thing (Oct 28, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Spell Thematics is another one I enjoy, even though all it really does is affect spellcraft checks.  Can't beat it for coolness!




Agreed. I use Spell Thematics in place of Spellflash for the Glantri 2e book. Its not mechanic bonus but more of a style bonus. Where is the wonder in magic if everyone's magic missile are little glowing balls of force, I like mine a tiny flaming skulls.


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## Kvantum (Oct 28, 2005)

Persistent Spell. OK, the 3.5 version is +6 levels, but damn if it's not worth it for some spells, especially the divine ones. Persistent Divine Favor, anyone?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 28, 2005)

I don't recall the original source for Elemental Spellcasting, but it is reprinted in Dieties and Demigods.


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## Lord Pendragon (Oct 28, 2005)

What book are the Sudden Metamagic feats in?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 28, 2005)

I believe those are in Complete Arcane.


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## Wish (Oct 28, 2005)

I'm a big fan of Empower through the mid levels.  At 10th level, your Cone of Cold takes a 5th level slot and does 35 damage on average.  Your Empowered Fireball takes a 5th level slot for 52 damage on average.  Pretty nice.  Of course, at higher levels the bigger die cap on the higher level spells balances things out.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 28, 2005)

Of course, there's always the silliness of Energy Admixture and Innate Spell.

Side note- did Innate Spell become +8 levels and require Quicken spell as a prereq in 3.5?  If so, Innate Spell needs to be punted.


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## KarinsDad (Oct 28, 2005)

Wish said:
			
		

> I'm a big fan of Empower through the mid levels.  At 10th level, your Cone of Cold takes a 5th level slot and does 35 damage on average.  Your Empowered Fireball takes a 5th level slot for 52 damage on average.  Pretty nice.




But, you must also remember that the DC is 2 better for the Cone of Cold.

18 stat caster, spell DC 19 versus spell DC 17

Low Reflex 10th level opponent (+5 for example)


45% chance 26 points + 55% chance 52 points

versus

35% chance 17 points + 65% chance 35 points


Empowered Fireball averages: 40

Cone of Cold averages: 29

Not quite the 50% increase that it first appeared (in this case), closer to 40%. Still good though, but 10th level is the optimal level for this (or again at 15th level for Empowered Cone of Cold versus Delayed Blast Fireball).


And against a 10th level Rogue with a Reflex save of +11, it becomes:

Empowered Fireball averages: 13 (6 with Improved Evasion)

Cone of Cold averages: 12 (6 with Improved Evasion)

Not significantly better at all against this type of opponent. It all depends on the situation.


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## Xeoble (Oct 28, 2005)

Clarification:

There are two homebrew races that i'm considering for this sorcerer or warmage

Either
-2 str, -2 dex, +2 int, +4 wis, +2 cha

Or
-2 str, +2 dex, -2 con, +2 wis, +2 cha


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## HeapThaumaturgist (Oct 28, 2005)

??
Last post ... confuses me.

Either way, that's a net +4/+2 stat bonus.  The race would need to have almost no other abilities, even minor ones, or would need a LA.

Heighten Spell is ... eehhhhhh ... I've contemplated giving it to Sorc's as a free bonus feat.

I'll honestly say the only metamagic I've ever taken is Extend, once.  To be honest, compared to the other feats available out there I've just never really found them to be WORTH it.  A feat only useful at 10th and 15th levels for a short period of time ... still not worth it ... I'd rather something so small and randomly useful as Spell Penetration, personally ... which is especially useful when you come upon pretty much any Outsider and the random Drow.  

If I had to choose, I'd say only Still and Silent, and only for a sorc.  They're specific counters for specific debuffs and really only decent for a Sorc, who can use them WHEN those situations warrant.  

  Which is really unfortunate.  I like Metamagic as an IDEA, but the costs are just too high with the way D&D's larger magic system is structured.

--fje


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## blargney the second (Oct 28, 2005)

I like the Draconic feats!  They give you some fun abilities to play with.

-blarg


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## LokiDR (Oct 28, 2005)

What do you really mean by battlemagic?

One viable sorcerer concept based on the information you have given is the ambush mage.  Take the second race option and draconic heritage (green) for the move silently option.  At fourth level, take invisibility.  You can now move up on an enemy and catch them unaware.  That's a good advantage in battle magic.  With a few summon spells ahead of the combat, you could be the whole distraction against a group while your allies take the objective of the mission.  Another invis, and you can leave pretty easily.

An alternative could be to mix up the draconic feats and warmage.  Take one level of sorcerer and draconic heritage(brass).  Choose only utility spells like comprehend language and spider climb.  Then, take warmage, and go for draconic resistance.  After a few more draconic feats, like draconic skin and draconic flight, you can include yourself in your own fireballs.  This is good for wading into enemies, and thematicly interesting.  The race options, however, don't support a melee character very well.

For metamagic, it depends on your theme.  If you like the ambush mage idea, take silent spell.  If you like the warmage wading in, widen is good.  General blast spells are good with empower and maximize.  Since sorcerers don't get a whole lot of spells, picking different energy types might be hard.  With empower and maximize, you can make the lower level spells of the right energy work better.  This works best with the orb spells.  

Alternatively, energy substitution works.  One concept that has a big boost is the fire mage.  With Firey Spell from Sandstorm and Elemental Savant, you could make a fire focused character better than any other element, especially considering the powerful fire spells like ray of flame and fireball.  Draconic heritage of any fire-based dragon would be a nice touch for theme.  Brass comes to mind, since your high charisma would work best with the gather information skill.


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## Stalker0 (Oct 28, 2005)

I'm a big fan of sculpt spell, you can get a lot of utility, and at a +1 its one you can use at relatively all levels.


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