# Jemals school of hard knocks



## Jemal (May 6, 2009)

I was originally planning something else for my third game, but I decided that I should probably go with something a bit easier until I've settled into DMing both my Epic and Mutant games.  SO, I present to you Jemal's school:

Located on an interdimensional nexus of power, The School is a demiplane unto itself, a completely self-encased and magically supplied structure of immense proportions.  The School's founders are lost in legend and shrouded in mystery, and it's true purpose is unknown.  What IS known is that it's THE place for aspiring adventurers to train, learning and honing their skills.

You lucky people have been selected to join our new freshman's class for the upcoming year, as you all show great potential.


The primary means of 'education' in the school is the Training Room, where students are faced off against quasi-real monsters, traps, and other challenges adventurers would be expected to face. 

Aside from that, there are innumerable activities one could partake of in this wonderful Institute.

In addition to learning and having fun, Students will receive 'incentives' for doing well in various Activities in the form of rewards from the teachers. (IE: Loot), and occasionally a group will be selected to perform missions for the school, to showcase what they've learned in the 'real world'.

Within the school, student violence is closely watched and security maintains peace, preventing the upper-classmen from picking too much on the 'newbies', who cannot yet defend themselves.  The security does NOT, however, interfere with In-class disputes (Disputes between students of similar level).

Facilities: 
The School has innumerable facilities... aside from the Training Room, various Classrooms, common halls, dorms, etc, there are also several Shops where items both magical and mundane can be purchased, medical facilities where students can receive first-rate (And usualy free) treatment, Dojo's for more basic sparring and weapons training, shooting ranges, an arboretum which contains every non-sentient plant in the multiverse, and a library so large that the only being who knows how to find anything in it is the librarian.

Training Room: 
The central part of the game.  Any person (or group of people, usually) is allowed to use the training room once per week.  To use it, you simply select a starting scenario from those listed as available, and you are immersed in an illusion(well, people THINK it's an illusion, but it's so realistic nobody's ever been able to prove it) of that scenario, where you will be expected to fight, survive, etc.  Once you have finished, you will be granted a 2 minute rest period before the next scenario(this one not of your choosing) begins.  At any point between scenarios you may choose to exit the training room.  If you do not, you will keep going until you are unable to continue (IE until everybody in the room is unconscious).
Once you have exited the training room, you will gain credit for whatever you did.  If you successfully complete multiple scenarios, you will gain a 10%(cumulative) bonus for each beyond the first.  If you are KO'd during a scenario, your companions(if you have any) will have until the start of the next scenario to ressusitate you.  If they do not, you will be 'kicked out' at the start of the next scenario, and automatically ressusitated.  Those 'kicked out' will receive credit for each scenario they successfully completed, but will not gain any bonus, due to 'not knowing when to quit'.  

EX: Party of four ventures in.  Defeats a CR 1 encounter, then a CR 2 encounter.  During third(CR 3) encounter, Bob dies.  They are unable to revive him.  At beginning of fourth encounter, bob is kicked out.  Sally and Fred die during Encounter 4(CR3).   Tim decides to quit after (barely) completing the fourth encounter.
Total credit: 
Bob gains credit/xp for CR 1 and 2 encounters.  Sally and Fred gain credit for CR 1, 2, and 3 encounters.  Tim Gains credit for CR 1, 2, 3, AND the last CR 3 encounter, PLUS an additional 30% for walking out under his own power.


Character rules:
Characters will be created with 1000 xp (Lvl 2) and 1000 gp worth of equipment.  NO magical or alchemical items will be allowed at start of school year, and any unspent gold will be largely useless, as the interdimensional nature of the school uses its own seperate currency system.  
Upon arriving at the school, each student will be given their own personal account, and will receive credits to accompany their learning (You gain 1 'credit', or 1GP, for each XP you gain.  If you gain 500 XP one day, your account also gets credited 500 GP.)
This is in addition to the 'incentives' teachers will occasionally hand out.  Nearly anything you can think of is available for purchase somewhere in the school.. if you know where to find it.

All students are gifted with a Ring to signify their position in the school.  The Freshman Ring (Which all PC's will be starting with) is a simple silver band with the name of the student it's linked to carved into it via an arcane mark.  These rings are what provide access to your 'account', and give you the bonus for doing well in the training room, and it is said that as you advance, your ring gains new abilities.

You must be relatively young for your race (Just starting into adulthood), but Alignment will not be an issue.  The school accepts applicants without caring about their morals, ethics, or beliefs.

Stat System: 
34 point buy, but you MUST buy one 18 and one 8. (Before any modifiers)
In other words, you have one 18 stat, one 8 stat, and 18 points to spend on the other four stats.
ALSO: You must have a (modified) Intelligence of at least 10 to qualify for entry into the school.

Allowed Sources: PHB, DMG, PHB2, Complete Adventurer/Arcane/Divine/Warrior.  I may also allow Setting-Specific sources if you're character is from that setting (IE Faerun/Eberron, etc), provided you ask for it beforehand.
Due to the 'open' nature of where characters could be from, you will also each be allowed to pick one source outside of this list (At my discretion, I may say no it I don't have access to the book), to account for different abilities of where you're from.  These could include other completes(Mage to account for a magically advanced society?), a 'races of' book(Draconic world?), Or even the Monster's Manual (If you wish to play a non-humanoid character).

**EDIT: Special note on 'monstrous' characters.  I will only be allowing one or two of these at most, and I have a method of gaining templates/level adjustment as you level up for any who want to ask about a specific one.**

ALL skills could be useful in the campaign(Dependant on how you play), particularily knowledges.  As it is a 'school' based campaign, each player may choose one knowledge skill that is ALWAYS a class skill for their character (Though if you do, you must always put max ranks in it).  If you allready have all knowledges as class skills(Wizard, Cleric with knowledge domain, etc), you may instead choose to gain +2 to any knowledge check that you have max ranks in.

A detailed background is not required.  HOWEVER, each student must write an essay (at least a couple paragraphs) about what they hope to achieve by going to the school - WHY they want to become better/stronger/more powerful, what the hope to learn, something like that.  Only the Dean will ever read these, and he can detect the truth in anything he hears, sees, or reads, so there's no point in lieing.
(This 'essay' is my way of knowing what the REAL reason you/your character is here, regardless of what you may tell others).


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## Myth and Legend (May 6, 2009)

Hmm.. This looks very interesting. (And low level so i can make the char in 1 hour not 1 week ). A gallant Knight from PHB2, with long blonde hair, blue eyes and a chivalrous manner. What say you?


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## crazy_monkey1956 (May 6, 2009)

Ever so tempting...but Monkey is trying to scale back his games at the moment, not add more.  

Have fun with this.


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## rpgramen (May 6, 2009)

How very Sigil Prep. Color me interested! Seeing as I need to break my Bard streak, I suppose I'll take up the mantle of Wizard/Cleric, leading in to Mystic Theurge. I've always wanted to play one of those


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## Rhun (May 6, 2009)

I've wanted to play a Wu Jen, Warmage or Battle Sorcerer for a while now...I'm assuming these would be allowable for your game?


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## Jemal (May 6, 2009)

Wu Jen and Warmage are both Complete Arcane, so GTG.  Is "Battle" sorceror just the style you're planning (IE a sorceror from the PHB), or an alternate class feature from somewhere?

the Mystic Theurge & Knight are fine by me.

Now, lets see some sheets. 

Soon as I have 4 players I'm gonna start, but I may accept as many as 8.


OH, and BAD MONKEY! I play in your games.  (J/k, I understand.)


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## renau1g (May 6, 2009)

I'd like to try out either a warblade or crusader if you'd allow Book of 9 Swords as my alternate book


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## Rhun (May 6, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Is "Battle" sorceror just a type or an alternate class?




Yes, from UA/SRD: Battle Sorcerer

In truth, the War Mage would probably be a better option, though. So I will pick between War Mage and Wu Jen.


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## Jemal (May 6, 2009)

Although I have access to book of 9, there's a reason I rarely allow it.  I'm gonna have to say no, sry.


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## renau1g (May 6, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Wu Jen and Warmage are both Complete Arcane, so GTG.  Is "Battle" sorceror just the style you're planning (IE a sorceror from the PHB), or an alternate class feature from somewhere?




It's from UA, available at d20srd.org, alternate class

Variant Character Classes :: d20srd.org


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## Myth and Legend (May 6, 2009)

Hmm this Book of 9 Swords sounds interesting. Anyone care to elaborate on the Crusader class?


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## Rhun (May 6, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> Hmm this Book of 9 Swords sounds interesting. Anyone care to elaborate on the Crusader class?





Jemal is not allowing the ToB: Bo9S.


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## rpgramen (May 6, 2009)

To further elaborate in the simplest of terms, take a look at the Eldritch Knight in the DMG/SRD. Now give it a breastplate without arcane spell-failure, the equivalent of damage-dealing skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel, and a variety of supernatural abilities. You now have the "generalized" version of every class from Book of Nine Swords. Here's a minor exerpt on ToB: BoNS to sate your curiosity.

Also, as a refferendum from my previous concept, I'd like to convert to Rogue. Haven't played a good "pure Rogue" in... erm... ever. Yeah. Those silly multi-class Rogue/Wizards and Rogue/Clerics (though I am fond of the Arcane and Divine Tricksters) will tremble in fear at my mighty Ranged Sneak Attacks! That, and the tell-tale Roguish battlecry will forever be comically entertaining: "For Gold and... er... more Gold!"


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## Rhun (May 6, 2009)

rpgramen said:


> To further elaborate in the simplest of terms, take a look at the Eldritch Knight in the DMG/SRD. Now give it a breastplate without arcane spell-failure, the equivalent of damage-dealing skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel, and a variety of supernatural abilities. You now have the "generalized" version of every class from Book of Nine Swords. Here's a minor exerpt on ToB: BoNS to sate your curiosity.




You could accomplish much the same with a Duskblade from PHB2, as well.


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## rpgramen (May 6, 2009)

And Rhun takes the gold for simplicity. I'd completely forgotten about the Duskblade, as it always struck me as lackluster. Kudos to you, sir


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## renau1g (May 6, 2009)

Thinking further I'm thinking about an artificier from Eberron, if that's ok Jemal?


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## Theroc (May 6, 2009)

Sky High; D&D style!

I'm interested, but not even sure what I want to do yet.

I'm leaning towards a magic oriented class as I haven't played one... like... ever... just need to determine which one.


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## GlassEye (May 6, 2009)

Tossing in a tentative cleric or druid unless I'm too late.

Also, would you allow Binder from Tome of Magic?


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## Jemal (May 6, 2009)

Artificer's probably OK, I'll have to look at it when I find my eberron book.

Don't have access to Tome of Magic, so I'll need a breakdown of the Binder

As far as Recruiting still being open, there's 6 interested so far, I'll be starting the game when I get 4 completed characters, and will be taking probably 8 total.


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## Theroc (May 6, 2009)

Are the "additional" domains from the SRD under "Divine Rules" available?

Also, do we need to choose a deity, or can a Cleric simply choose domains?


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## GlassEye (May 6, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Don't have access to Tome of Magic, so I'll need a breakdown of the Binder




Asking more out of curiosity than anything else so I'll table the binder idea and work on a druid.  Although bard is appealing to me right now for some reason.  *sigh*


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## Jemal (May 6, 2009)

Theroc - Any deity or combination of available domains is allowed, as the school is a crossgrounds between all dimensions.  That being said however, I'll have to look over any domains not in the listed sources.

I'm in the middle of a massive bout of (forced) spring cleaning today, but I'm taking small breaks to post whenever I can.  I'll check the SRD domains next break.


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## Theroc (May 6, 2009)

Is there any form of LA buyoff available in your game, Jemal?

As far as templates, I'm not sure which ones I'd want so I don't know what to ask about.  Saint looks like a good one for a Cleric to take, but that's from the Book of Exalted Deeds.


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## rpgramen (May 6, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Asking more out of curiosity than anything else so I'll table the binder idea and work on a druid. Although bard is appealing to me right now for some reason. *sigh*




You could always play a Bardadin! Go Go Devoted Performer from Complete Adventurer!

Also, I'll have that Rogue up for you in an hour or so from this post, Jemal.


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## Jemal (May 6, 2009)

I dislike LA buyoff, and Saint as I've seen it is too powerful for it's current level adjustment, so I'ld probably have to change it at least a bit if that's something you want to play.

As to those additional domains, most of them were also printed in Spell Compendium (Which I'm adding to the list of allowed sources, I forgot to include it previously), So they're good.  If there's a difference between the one in the SRD and the spell compendium, use the version in the Compendium.


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## GlassEye (May 6, 2009)

rpgramen said:


> You could always play a Bardadin! Go Go Devoted Performer from Complete Adventurer!




Good idea but I'm not so keen on playing a paladin.  A druid/bard, however 

Also, Jemal, any particular character sheet format you prefer?


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## Jemal (May 6, 2009)

So long as you detail your skills, saves, and abilities.  I'm like onea those math teachers who insists you 'show your work'.  It makes it easier for others reading your sheet (IE the DM) to spot mistakes and/or understand why a number is what it is.


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## rpgramen (May 7, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Good idea but I'm not so keen on playing a paladin. A druid/bard, however
> 
> Also, Jemal, any particular character sheet format you prefer?




You could poke Jemal to let you use the Fey Druid Charisma-casting Variant that Rich Burlew wrote up a while back to accent that concept 

Also, excuse my belatedness. Got distracted by company. Will have sheet up by no later than 9 PM EST.


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## Rhun (May 7, 2009)

Jemal, will you be allowing the Reserve Feats from Complete Mage? I know it isn't on the approved list, but wanted to check. Technically can't take any of them until 3rd level anyway, but thought I'd check for future PC planning.


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## Theroc (May 7, 2009)

Jemal said:


> I dislike LA buyoff, and Saint as I've seen it is too powerful for it's current level adjustment, so I'ld probably have to change it at least a bit if that's something you want to play.
> 
> As to those additional domains, most of them were also printed in Spell Compendium (Which I'm adding to the list of allowed sources, I forgot to include it previously), So they're good.  If there's a difference between the one in the SRD and the spell compendium, use the version in the Compendium.




Really I was just trying to find a Template or race that would make a particularly good Cleric, as opposed to one that doesn't really affect things at all.  Most templates and such drop Charisma or Wisdom and thus aren't suitable for a Cleric.

Was thinking something akin to the "Warrior-Priest" from Warhammer.  Basically a Cleric with War and Destruction domains, who channels positive energy.

Though, if you allow reserve feats, I might poke some people who know about them and make a Wizard.


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## Myth and Legend (May 7, 2009)

Jemal what of HP per level?


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## rpgramen (May 7, 2009)

And voila! I present to you one Mick Mellowsheaf, rogue extrordinaire! Still devoid of a physical description and a detailed personallity, mind you, but he's otherwise done.

[sblock=Tattered Scroll]_This crumpled, socially distraught piece of parchment bears numerous -- not to mention poorly drawn -- cartoons on the inside in and about the text, with several notable blot-outs, re-writes, slash-throughs, and otherwise aesthetically unappealing features of literature. Indeed, if you didn't know better, it was as if someone had purposely altered the wording inside without the consent of the original author. In fact, you're quite certain this is a forgery -- a poorly constructed one at that. Judging from the bizarre amount of honesty, it might be safe to presume that whomever pilfered the original transcript honestly meant to do so, either as some attempt at a crude and blunt joke, or as some sort of bizarre actions-speak-louder-than-words fiasco._

_After removing the bindings and unfurling the tattered parchment, it reads as follows:_



			
				Tattered Scroll said:
			
		

> To your most humble Deanship:
> 
> Greetings and salutations, fellow scholastic enthusiast! *sir or lady.* Allow me to introduce myself; my name is *Mick Mellowsheaf*, arcane scholar *wealth redistributor* in training. When word reached me as to the nature of your extra-dimensional educational facility, my heart was aflutter with the exponential possibilities to pursue my arcane studies *wealth liberation* talents and elevate them to new heights, particularly so at the prospect of making a full-time career from the newfound knowledge passed on from your illustrious studies.
> 
> ...



[/sblock]


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## renau1g (May 7, 2009)

Jemal so I've got 2 concepts going on.

1) A Fire Elf with a desire to build/infuse gun-type weapons...
2) Human Artificier from Sharn - House Cannith member, looking to develop some unique crafting techniques from the school to take back home to add prestige to his House.


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## Myth and Legend (May 7, 2009)

[sblock=Sir Jamien de Chartes]
Sir Jamien de Chartes

*Lawful Good* Male Human Knight 2


*Patron Deity: Torm*

EXP: 2,000* 
Strength* 18 (+4)
*Dexterity* 14 (+2)
*Constitution* 14 (+2)
*Intelligence* 10 (+0)
*Wisdom* 8 (-1)
*Charisma* 12 (+1)


*Size:* Medium
*Age:* 16
*Height:* 5' 8"
*Weight:* 168 lb
*Eyes:* Light blue
*Hair:* Golden Blonde
*Skin:* Fair

[sblock=Appearance]
An average sized lad with a charming smile and long golden hair flowing in locks down to his shoulders. Jamien is well built and athletic, despite his youth, and he carries himself with confidence and gallant manners.

He is cheerful and good tempered, but does not hesitate to answer challenges or issue them, if his honor is at stake, or to protect an innocent.

The lad possesses an aura of chivalry and skill, that is unusual for one of his age, and his soft voice has mellowed many a heart, some of which of much older ladies.
[/sblock]


*Total Hit Points:* 28


*Speed:* 30 feet

*Armor Class:* 19 = 10 +5 [Chainmail] + 2 [dexterity] + 2 [Shield, heavy steel]

*Touch AC:* 12
*Flat-footed:* 17

*Special:* Fighting Challange +1, Knight's Challange, Knight's Code, Shield Block +1

*Initiative modifier:* + 2 = + 2 [dexterity]
*Fortitude save:* + 2 = 0 [base] + 2 [constitution]
*Reflex save:* + 2 = 0 [base] + 2 [dexterity]
*Will save:* + 2 = 3 [base] - 1 [wisdom]
*Attack (handheld):* + 6 = 2 [base] + 4 [strength]
*Attack (missile):* + 4 = 2 [base] + 2 [dexterity]
*Grapple check:* +6 = 2 [base] + 4 [strength]

Light load:100 lb.
Medium load:101-200 lb.
Heavy load: 201-300 lb.
Lift over head: - 300 lb.
Lift off ground: - 600 lb.
Push or drag: - 1500 lb.


*Languages:* Common


[sblock=Feats]
*Power Attack*
*Cleave* _(Human bonus feat)_
*Mounted Combat* _(Knight bonus feat)_
[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills]
*Appraise + 0 *= 0 [Int]
*Balance  + 2 *= 2 [Dex]
*Bluff  + 2 *= + 2 [Cha]
*Climb + 4 *= 4 [Str]
*Concentration  + 2 *= 2 [Con]
*Craft  + 0 *= + 0 [Int]
*Diplomacy  + 2 *= 2 [Cha]
*Disguise  + 2 *= 2 [Cha]
*Escape Artist  + 2 *= 2 [Dex]
*Forgery  + 0 *= 0 [Int]
*Gather Information  + 2 *= 2 [Cha]
*Handle Animal + 7* = 5 [base] + 2 [Cha]
*Heal - 1 *= - 1 [Wis]
*Hide  + 2 *= 2 [Dex]
*Intimidate  + 2* = + 2 [Cha]
*Jump  + 4* = 2 [Str]
*Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)  + 5* = 5 [base]
*Listen - 1* = - 1 [Wis]
*Move Silently  + 2* = 2 [Dex]
*Ride  + 7* = 2 [Dex] + 5 [base]
*Search  + 0 *= + 0 [Int]
*Spot - 1 *= - 1 [Wis]
*Sense Motive - 1 *= - 1 [Wis]
*Survival - 1 *= - 1 [Wis]
*Swim + 4 *= 4 [Str]
*Use Rope  + 2 *= 2 [Dex]
[/sblock]



[sblock=Level Advancement]
*1: Knight:* Fighting Challenge + 1, Knight's Challenge, Knight's Code
Ride +4, Handle Animal + 4, Knowledge: (Nobility and Royalty) +4

*2: Knight:* Mounted Combat, Shield Block +1
Ride +5, Handle Animal + 5, Knowledge: (Nobility and Royalty) +5

[/sblock]
[sblock=Equipment]
*Lance* 10 gp 10 lb.
*Longsword* 15 gp 4 lb.
*Warhammer* 12 gp 5 lb.
*Longbow* 75 gp 3 lb.
*Arrows x 5* 5 fp 15  lb.
*Chainmail* 150 gp 40 lb.
*Shield, heavy steel* 20 gp 15 lb.

*Traveler’s outfit x 2* 2 gp 10lb
*Backpack* 2 gp 2 lb.
*Bedroll* 1sp 5 lb.
*Blanket, winter* 1 sp 3 lb
*Flint and steel* 1 gp
*Lantern, hooded *7gp 2lb
*Rations, trail x 7* 3gp 5sp 7lb
*Waterskin x 3* 3gp 12 lb

*Warhorse, heavy* 400 gp
*Military Saddle* 60gp 40 lb
*Saddlebags* 4gp 8lb
*Studded leather barding* 100 gp 40 lb

*Potion of Cure light wounds* x 2 100 gp
*Holy water (flask)* 25gp 1lb
*Tindertwig x 6* 6gp
_____
*Total:* 999gp 3sp (help with carried load, how much do the saddlebags take?)

*GP on person:* 0 gp 7sp 
[/sblock]

[sblock=Background]
Sir Jamien de Chartes is the youngest (and only so far) son of Sir Seandor de Chartes, and the lady Rowena. His father was wed at the age of nineteen, and when he was still a twenty year old lad himself, Jamien came to the world.

As Seandor was still quite a hot-headed Knight, he continued adventuring around the small county they lived in and the neighboring city, while Rowena took care of the boy.

Being the son of a renown Knight, Jamien had no choice (but great desire) to follow in his father's steps. As soon as Jamien was able to walk and hold a waster, Sir Seandor began tutoring the boy in the skills of fencing, riding, archery and taught him the Knight's code of Honour. At the age of ten, Jamien became a page, and before he was fourteen he had been promoted to Squire.

At this point his father had to leave for war, as he and the other minor nobles had been summoned by the Baron that was their liege. Reluctantly, Jamien had to stay behind and watch his father's estate and his mother and baby sister. As luck would have it, some local brigands attempted to raid the house, knowing that the master is away.

Jamien managed to kill one and wound another, while protecting his mother and sister, before the local militia came to his aid. For that, he was dubbed a Knight by the Baron himself, and officially took the vows at the age of sixteen.

Sir Seandor, however, thought the boy too young to be allowed in to the army proper, so he sent him off to the best academy for young adventurers he knew of, where the lad would hone his skills, before returning home and joining his father in battle.
[/sblock]

[/sblock]


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## Rathan (May 7, 2009)

Got room for one more Jemal.. I know I'm in your Legends game but me likes the sound and idea of this... I think I might try my hand at a cleric perhaps.... human methinks.... and see where it goes from there....

My other way to go I think would be a rogue.... and would work towards assassin PrC methinks a school for doing such just fits so nicely methinks...


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## Voda Vosa (May 7, 2009)

Hmm this place seems quite crowded. If you are planning to take all these guys, maybe you can consider taking me on-board.


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## Arkhandus (May 7, 2009)

I might throw my hat in with a Duskblade.  Need to think about it.


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## renau1g (May 7, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Jemal so I've got 2 concepts going on.
> 
> 1) A fire Elf with a desire to build/infuse gun-type weapons...
> 2) Human Artificier from Sharn - House Cannith member, looking to develop some unique crafting techniques from the school to take back home to add prestige to his House.




I really like the human idea and am wondering if you'll allow blunderbuss as his weapon of choice?

Blunderbuss (DnD Equipment - D&D Wiki)

He'll probably carry a crossbow for farther range, but I just got to thinking about a  goal is to become a sky pirate and create his own vessel...so I'll drop the House Cannith thing and have him more of a freelancer
Far, far off, but a lofty goal is definitely his thing. I'll create him like this and await you're ruling.

Thanks!


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## renau1g (May 7, 2009)

First Crack at Zero, the human artificer:


```
[B]Name:[/B] Zero 
[B]Class:[/B] Artificer 2 [b]Starting Level[/b]: 2
[B]Race:[/B] Human 
[B]Region of Origin:[/b] Sharn
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male
[B]Alignment:[/B]CN

[B]Str:[/B] 08 -1 (00pts) 	[B]Level:[/B] 2		[B]XP[/B]: 1,000
[B]Dex:[/B] 12 +1 (04pts)	[B]BAB:[/B] +1		[B]HP:[/B] 12/12 HP
[B]Con:[/B] 12 +1 (04pts)	[B]Grapple:[/B] +0	[b]Craft Reserve:[/b]  40/40
[B]Int:[/B] 18 +4 (16pts)	[B]Speed:[/B] 30'	[B]Stat Increases:[/b] 0
[B]Wis:[/B]  8 -1 (00pts)	[B]Init:[/B] +0		[B]Spell Save:[/B] +4
[B]Cha:[/B] 16 +3 (10pts)	[B]ACP:[/B] -0		[B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0

[B]	Base	Armor	Shld	Dex	Size	Nat	Misc	Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]	10	+0	+0	+1	+0	+0	+0	11
[B]Touch:[/B]	11	[B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10

[B]Spell Res:[/B] None
[B]Dmg Red:[/B] None

[B]	Total	Base	Mod	Misc[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]	+2	+0	+2	+0
[B]Ref:[/B]	+1	+0	+1	+0
[B]Will:[/B]	+2	+3	-1	+0 
[B]Notes:[/B]

[B]Weapon			Attack	Damage	Critical	Range[/B]
Blunderbuss		     +2		2d6	x3		30 ft. 


[B]Notes:[/B]
Move action to reload either weapon.

[B]Languages:[/B] Celestial, Common, Draconic, Modron, Infernal 

[B]Abilities:[/B] 


[B]Feats: [/B] 
Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) - 1st  
Exotic Weapon Prof (Blunderbuss) - Human Bonus
Scribe Scroll - Class Bonus
Brew Potion - Class Bonus

[b]Trait:[/b] Absent-Minded (+1 to Knowledge checks, -1 to Spot/Listen)

[B]Code: (total Skill Points: 4+4(int)+1(human)x5 = 45)
                           Skill     Ability             Misc. 
Skill Name 	          Modifier   Modifier   Ranks    Modifier
Appraise		     +6	       	+4        2           
Concentration                +6        	+1        5 
Craft (Alchemy)              +8       	+4        4  
Craft (Metal-Working)        +8       	+4        4  
Craft (Weaponsmithing)       +8       	+4        4 
Disable Device               +5	      	+4	  1
Knowledge (Arcana)           +10      	+4	  5       +1 [absent-minded]
Knowledge (Architecture)     +7 	+4	  2 	  +1 [absent-minded]
Knowledge (Planes)           +8 	+4	  3	  +1 [absent-minded]
Open Lock		     +2		+1	  1
Search			     +8		+4	  4	
Spellcraft		     +11	+4	  5       +2 [Knowledge, arcane] 
Use Magic Device	     +11	+3	  5	  +3 (Skill Focus)


[B]Notes:[/B]

[B]Equipment:				Cost	Weight[/B]
Blunderbuss*                            21 gp    5lbs
150 pellets*				1 gp	 3 lbs
20 gunpowder pellets			4 gp	
Mithril Chain Shirt*			550 gp	12.5 lbs
Artificer Tools, masterwork		55 gp	 5.0lb
[b]Scrolls:[/b]
Web					75 gp
Invisibility				75 gp
Mirror Image				75 gp
CLW x 4					50 gp

*Note two failed scribe scroll attempts cost 87.5 gp*				 


[B]Total Weight:[/B]0lbs	[B]Money:[/B] 6.5gp Xsp Xcp

[B]		Lgt	Med	Hvy	Lift	Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]	30	60	90	180	450
```

Infusions/day:
1st - 3 + 1(High Int)

[sblock=Crafting Log]
1 - Blunderbuss* - 630 sp - Craft (metal) (1d20+8=20)
Check Result (20) x DC 20 = 400 sp
Check 2: Craft (metal) (1d20+8=22) 
Check 2 result (22) x DC 20 = 440 sp, total is 840/630sp 
Complete - Total cost = 1/3*63gp = 21 gp
Crafting Pellets: 10sp - Craft(metal) (1d20+8=10) 
Check 2: Craft(metal) (1d20+10=14) 
Check 3: Craft (metal) (1d20+8=21) 
All successes (DC10), gain 150 pellets, costs 1gp
Mithril Chain Shirt - 11000 sp - Cost is 366.67 gp  for raw materials - DC 20
Craft Check 1- Craft (Armour) (1d20+10=23) 
Check Result (23) x DC 20 = 360/11000
Craft Check 2 - Craft (Metal) (1d20+10=19) 
Checks 3-7Craft (Armour) (1d20+10=26, 1d20+10=16, 1d20+10=26, 1d20+10=26, 1d20+10=11) 3 success, 2 fail
Check Results: (26 x 20) + (26 X 20) + (26 x 20) = 1560 - 2020/11000
Checks 8-12: Craft (metal) (1d20+10=30, 1d20+10=12, 1d20+10=27, 1d20+10=24, 1d20+10=23)  2 success, 3 fail
Check Results: (30 x 20) + (27 x 20 ) = 1140 - 3160/11000
Checks 13-30: Craft (Armour) (1d20+10=11, 1d20+10=16, 1d20+10=12, 1d20+10=16, 1d20+10=23, 1d20+10=23, 1d20+10=16, 1d20+10=26, 1d20+10=23, 1d20+10=28, 1d20+10=26, 1d20+10=28, 1d20+10=25, 1d20+10=18, 1d20+10=28, 1d20+10=23, 1d20+10=16, 1d20+10=19) 10 success, 8 failures
Check Results (23+23+26+23+28+26+28+25+28+23) x 20 = 5060 - 8220/11000
Checks 31-45: Craft (Armour) (1d20+10=26, 1d20+10=30, 1d20+10=22, 1d20+10=15, 1d20+10=23, 1d20+10=20, 1d20+10=23, 1d20+10=22, 1d20+10=15, 1d20+10=28, 1d20+10=22, 1d20+10=15, 1d20+10=25, 1d20+10=16) 14 successes, 0 failures
Check Result (26+30+22+23+20+236) x 20 = 4228 - 11900/11000 *Stopped once reached 100%*
*45 weeks, but a success, 1 failures by 5 or more, so 1 lost raw materials.(150% x 366.67 gp = 550 gp)
Web Scroll - UMD Check DC 23 (20 + CL 3) UMD Check (1d20+13=24) Success
Cost is 75 gp (3 CL x 2 (spell level) x 12.5 base) + (1/25 x 150) = 6 xp (paid out of reserve points 14/20 remaining)
Flaming Sphere, Invisibility, Mirror Image - UMD (1d20+13=18, 1d20+13=28, 1d20+13=33) Fail, success, success - still lose all xp/gold from failure
CLW x 4 - DC 21 - UMD (1d20+13=30, 1d20+13=26, 1d20+13=31, 1d20+13=21) All successes
Magic Missile - DC 21 - UMD (1d20+13=20)  Fail
[/sblock]


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## Rhun (May 7, 2009)

My Wu-Jen is coming along nicely, I should be able to get her posted up tonight.


----------



## GlassEye (May 7, 2009)

*Callistemon Agonistes*

Not quite finished but I'm gonna post what I have so far anyway...

My alternate source is Complete Champion so I can use the alternate class feature Healing Hymn.


```
[size=5][b]Callistemon Agonistes ‘Cal’[/b][/size]
[b]Class:[/b] Bard 1 / Druid 1
[b]Race:[/b] Human
[b]Size:[/b] Medium
[b]Gender:[/b] Male
[b]Alignment:[/b] NG

Str:  8 -1 (0p.)     Level: 1        XP: 1,000
Dex: 10 +0 (2p.)     BAB: +0         HP: 11 (1d6+1d8)
Con: 10 +0 (2p.)     Grapple: -1     Dmg Red: -/-
Int: 14 +2 (6p.)     Speed: 30'      
Wis: 18 +4 (16p.)    Init: +0        
Cha: 15 +2 (8p.)     ACP: -0         

                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc
Armor: 10           10    +0    +0    +0    +0    +0    +0
  Touch: 10
  Flat-footed: 10

                         Base   Mod  Misc
Fort:   +2                 2    +0    +0
Ref:    +2                 2    +0    +0
Will:   +8                 4    +4    +0

Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical
Scimitar                 -1       1d6-1     18-20/x2

Languages: Common, Druidic, Sylvan, +1

Feats:
1) Extra Music
H) Animal Affinity

Skill Points: 42      Max Ranks: 5/2
Skills                Total  Ranks  Mod  Misc
Decipher Script         6      4     +2
Diplomacy               7      5     +2
Gather Information      6      4     +2
Handle Animal           8      4     +2   +2 (+4 w/companion)
Knowledge (arcana)      6      4     +2
Knowledge (nature)      9      5     +2   +2
Perform (string)        6      4     +2
Ride                    2      0     +0   +2
Sense Motive            8      4     +4
Sleight of Hand         4      4     +0
Spellcraft              6      4     +2
Survival                6      0     +4   +2

Abilities:
Bardic Knowledge (1d20+3)
Bardic Music -- 5/day
   Countersong (Su)
   Healing Hymn (Sp)
   Inspire Courage (Su)
Animal Companion (see below)
Nature Sense
Wild Empathy (1d20+3)

Bardic Spells (caster level 1):
Spells known: 0 lv.—Daze, Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
Spells/day: 0 lv.—2

Druidic Spells (caster level 1):
Spells prepared:
0 lv.—Create Water, Detect Poison, Guidance
1st—Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds

Equipment:                      Cost  Weight
Scimitar                         15      4
MW Instrument (lyre)             100      3

Total Weight: 0 lb      Money: 885 Gold

                           Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push
Max Weight:                26     53     80

Background:
```


----------



## Arkhandus (May 8, 2009)

If others get their PCs posted before I do (dunno when exactly I'll get around to deciding and posting a character, if I do have the time to join in), I'll just be waiting in the wings as an alt in case anyone drops out later.


----------



## Rathan (May 8, 2009)

[sblock=Terrance Hawthorne]
Terrance Hawthorne

Male Human Cleric of Boccob 2
Neutral Good
Representing Rathan

Strength 	12	(+1) (4 points)
Dexterity 	8	(-1) (0 points)
Constitution 	14	(+2) (6 Points)
Intelligence 	14	(+2) (6 Points)
Wisdom 	        18	(+4) (16 points)
Charisma 	10	(+0) (2 Points)

Size: 	Medium
Height: 	5' 11"
Weight: 	170 lb
Skin: 	Light
Eyes: 	Blue
Hair: 	Red; Wavy; Beardless
Age:    15

Domains: Healing Knowledge

Energy: Positive [Healing / Turns Undead]

Total Hit Points: 20  (Max HD +2 per level)

Speed: 30 feet

Armor Class: 15 = 10 +4 [chain shirt] +2 [heavy steel] -1 [dexterity]

      Touch AC: 9
      Flat-footed: 15

Initiative modifier:	-1	= -1 [dexterity]
Fortitude save:	+5	= 3 [base] +2 [constitution]
Reflex save:	-1	= 0 [base] -1 [dexterity]
Will save:	+7	= 3 [base] +4 [wisdom]
Attack (handheld):	+2	= 1 [base] +1 [strength]
Attack (unarmed):	+2	= 1 [base] +1 [strength]
Attack (missile):	+0	= 1 [base] -1 [dexterity]
Grapple check:	+2	= 1 [base] +1 [strength]

Light load: 43 lb. or less
Medium load: 44-86 lb.
Heavy load: 87-130 lb.
Lift over head: 130 lb.
Lift off ground: 260 lb.
Push or drag: 650 lb.

Languages:	Common Draconic Elven

Dagger [1d4, crit 19-20/x2, range inc 10 ft., 1 lb., light, piercing]
Heavy Mace [1d8, crit x2, 8 lb., one-handed, bludgeoning]
Light Crossbow [1d8, crit 19-20/x2, range inc 80 ft., 4 lb, piercing]]
Chain shirt [light; +4 AC; max dex +4; check penalty -2; 25 lb.]
Heavy Steel Shield [+2 AC; check penalty -1; hardness 10; hp 20; 15 lb.]

Feats:

    *Sacred Boost (Com. Divine gp 84) [Spend Turning attempt to make healing spells maximized for          
      allies within a 60ft burst. as a standard action.)	
    *Augment Healing (Com. Divine gp 79) [+2 per level to healing spells)	

Skills: (Total = Ability Mod + Ranks + Misc. Respectively)

Appraise (Int) 2 = +2
Balance (Dex) -1 = -1
Bluff (Cha) 0
Climb (Str) 1 = +1
Concentration (Con) 7 = +2 +5 	
Diplomacy (Cha) 0
Disguise (Cha) 0
Escape Artist (Dex)-1 = -1
Forgery (Int) 2 = +2
Gather Information (Cha) 0
Heal (Wis) 11 = +4 +5 +2 [Healer Kit] 	
Hide (Dex) -1 = -1
Intimidate (Cha) 0
Jump (Str) 1 = +1
Knowledge [history] (Int) 7 = +2 +5 	
Knowledge [religion] (Int) 7 = +2 +5 	
Listen (Wis) 4 = +4
Move Silently (Dex) -1 = -1
Ride (Dex) -1 = -1
Search (Int) 2 = +2
Sense Motive (Wis) 4 = +4
Spellcraft (Int) 7 = +2 +5
Spot (Wis) 4 = +4
Survival (Wis) 4 = +4
Swim (Str) 1 = +1
Use Rope (Dex) -1 = -1

Know Religion >=5 ranks gives +2 on turn/rebuke the undead.
Zero-level Cleric spells: 4 per day
First-level Cleric spells: 3 (2+1) per day +1 from a domain:

Human:

    * Extra feat at first level (already included)
    * Four extra skill points at first level (already included)
    * One extra skill point at each additional level (already included)

Cleric:

    * Alignment Aura
    * Spontaneous Casting (heal)
    * Turn Undead (7x/day)
    * High wisdom gains bonus spells daily
    * Domain choices give additional abilities

	Class 	HP rolled 	
Level 1: 	Cleric 	10 	
Level 2: 	Cleric 	10	

Terrance Hawthorne's Equipment:

      Crossbow bolts (quiver of 10 x 2) 2 gp
      Heavy Mace 12 gp
      Light Crossbow 35 gp
      Daggers x4 8 gp
      Chain Shirt 100 gp
      Heavy Steel Shield 20 gp
      Backpack 2 gp
      Bedroll 1 sp
      Blanket, winter x1 5 sp
      Case (for map or scroll) 1 gp
      Flint and steel 1 gp
      Grappling hook 1 gp
      Ink vial x2 16 gp
      Ink pen 1 sp
      Lantern (bullseye) 12 gp
      Oil flasks x2 2 sp
      Paper sheets x10 4 gp
      Parchment sheets x10 2 gp
      Pouch x4 4 gp
      Rope (50', hempen) x1 1 gp
      Signet ring (Fathers Loremaster Ring) 15 gp
      Soap 5 sp
      Waterskin 1 gp
      Whetstone 2 cp
      Healer kit 50 gp (+2 Bonus to Healing Checks) 
      Holy symbol (silver) 25 gp
      Spell component pouch 205 gp (200 gp worth of various components inside)
      Everburning Torch 110 gp
      Sunrod x5 10 gp
      Explorers Outfit 10 gp
      Scolars Outfit 5 gp
      Clerics Vestments 5 gp
      Travelers Outift 1 gp
      Nobles Outfit 75 gp
      Assorted Religious and Acient History Books 200 gp

      Total Spent: 933gp 14 sp 1 cp

Spells:

0th: 4
Detect Magic x2
Resistance x1
Guidance x1

1st: 3+1
Domain: Cure Light Wounds
Bane x1
Inflict Light Wounds x1
Comprehend Languages x1

More about Terrance Hawthorne:

Terrance is a young man of a young tender age of 15. His life up to this point has been sheltered to say the least. His family lives a rather lavish lifestyle as both his Parents Rathan and Abbigail are both Loremasters of rather high repute. From the age of 6 Terrance was taught the value of knowledge and was taught to read and write at this very young age as well. His father being who he is has instilled the importance of book learning on this boy Terrance ever sense he was old enough to know what a book was and even though it's not Terrance's dream to be like his father, he tries his hardest not to let him down by carrying on his fathers love of knowledge in any shape and form. Terrance even took his learning one step further than his father even has and is slowly learning knowledge with the divine help of the Knowledge God Boccob himself as he carries himself down the path of priesthood as well.[/sblock]

[sblock=Letter

To Whom It May Concern,

I Rathan Hawthorne submit for your approval my son Terrance Hawthrone in hopes of his acceptance to your university. As a Loremaster myself I understand fully the gracious gift that is knowledge. I have schooled my son in both religion and ancient history myself to the best of my abilities given what free time I've been able to spare. My hope is that with my schedule being so overburdened as it is, a school such as this will have more time to dedicate to his studies as well as give him a more over-all schooling of what the world has to offer. Our family is fairly well off so tuition should be no issue what-so-ever and only the best for my son and his mind as well as his body will do. Needless to say my son is not the most gracious or shall I say dexterous boy on the face of this planet and that is not something I am overly exceeding at myself, so any help in this manner would be most wonderful. 

It is my goal and in time it will become his to set Terrance's mind to the fact that this world in so many ways is harsh and unforgiving. Too many times in my own adventures have I seemingly met death on his own steps and I wish my son to know that this what this world has to offer him unless he learn the necessary skills to survive along with the rest of the strong populous of this planet. I do hope you see the potential in this boy as I do, and see that will a bit of, shall we say, refinement he will grow and learn to be a fine young man in his own right.

Sincerely, 

Rathan Hawthorne; Loremaster[/sblock]


----------



## Rhun (May 8, 2009)

UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Still pending feats, equipment, some character details and the "essay to the dean."


*Amaya Sakura Arai*
_Neutral Good Human Female Wu-Jen 2_
_XPs: 1,000 / 3,000_

[sblock=Experience History]
Starting XPs: 1,000
+
[/sblock]

*STR:* 08 [-1] (0 points)
*DEX:* 14 [+2] (6 points)
*CON:* 14 [+2] (6 points)
*INT:* 18 [+4] (16 points)
*WIS:* 10 [+0] (2 points)
*CHA:* 12 [+1] (4 points)

*HP:* 10 (4 + 2 + 4 CON)
*Armor Class:* 12 (10 base + 2 dex)
- Flat-footed AC: 10
- Touch AC: 12
*Initiative:* +2
*BAB:* +1
*Atttack:*
- Dagger +0 (1d4-1/19-20)
- Dagger, thrown +3 (1d4-1/19-20)

*Speed:* 30' (30’ base)

*FORT:* +2 (0 base, + 2 con)
*REFL:* +2 (0 base, + 2 dex)
*WILL:* +3 (3 base, + 0 wis)

*Abilities:* 
- _Human Bonus Feat_
- _Human Bonus Skill Points_
- _Spellcasting_
- _Wu-Jen Bonus Feat_
- _Taboos: Can't eat meat_

*Feats:*
1st Level
- _ (1st Level)_
- _ (Human)_
- _Sudden Extend (Wu Jen)_

*Skills:*35
- _Bluff_ +2 (1 cross-class rank, +1 cha)
- _Concentration +7 (5 ranks, +2 dex)_
- _Craft (Alchemy) +5 (1 ranks, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (Arcana) +11 (5 ranks, +4 int, +2 School Bonus)_
- _Knowledge (Architecture) +5 (1 rank, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6 (2 ranks, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (Geography) +6 (2 ranks, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (History) +6 (2 ranks, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (Local) +5 (1 rank, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (Nature) +5 (1 rank, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty) +5 (1 rank, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (Religion) +5 (1 rank, +4 int)_
- _Knowledge (The Planes) +6 (2 ranks, +4 int)_
- _Listen +1 (1 cross-class rank, +0 wis)_
- _Spellcraft +9 (5 ranks, +4 int)_
- _Spot +1 (1 cross-class rank, +0 wis)_

*Languages:*
- _Common/Trade Language_
- _Elven_
- _Goblin_
- _Draconic_
- _Giant_

*Spells Per Day / Prepared*
- _Level 0 (DC14): 4_
- _Level 1 (DC15): 3_

*Spellbook*
- _Level 0: Dancing Lights, Flare, Ray of Frost, Arcane Mark, Daze, Detect Magic, Detect 
Poison, Disrupt Undead, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, 
Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance_
- _Level 1: Magic Missile, scales of the Lizard, Shield, Charm Person, Iron Scarf, Hail of 
Stone, Fiery Eyes_


*Equipment:*
*Armor & Shield*
- 

*Melee weapons*
- 

*Ranged weapons*
- 
-

*Equipment*
- Backpack (2gp, 2lb)
----- 2 sacks (2cp, 1lb)
----- Flint & steel (1gp, -)
----- Waterskin (1gp, 4lb)
- Explorer's outfit (8gp, worn)

*Specialized Goods*
- 

*Potions, Salves and Oils*
- 

Weight Carried: 
Remaining money: 1000gp



*Description*
A dark-haired beauty of short statue and slight build, Amaya has taken to dressing to best 
accentuate her feminine features.





*Personality*


*Background*


----------



## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

ALL: 
Sorry bout the HP thing.  All creatures/characters/npcs/etc in this campaign will have max HP for all HD.

List of interested players: 
Rhun
Renau1g
Rathan
Arkhandus
Glasseye
Voda Vosa
Myth and Legend
Rpgramen
Theroc

I'm gonna close up recruitment now, we've got a pretty big roster... 9 PC's.  I was planning on 8, but one more can't hurt... much.  SO, I've posted a Rogue's Gallery.  Please post completed(or mostly completed) characters, and I'll nitpick them from there.

Please include your 'Application Essay' in an SBlock at the end of character sheet.  Also, as any who've been in my campaigns before know, I'm a bit of a stickler for 'showing your work'.  Please indicate the math that went into your Abilities, Saves, AC & Skills.  It makes mistakes less likely and easier to spot, and keeps me from wondering "How the hell is that a +30 at lvl 2???"  It's one thing to know it CAN be done, it's another thing to know how it WAS done.

Also, please indicate under your special qualities(Or whatever similar section you use for such things) which(if any) knowledge option you're using (IE: "Knowledge History added as class skill" or "+1 to all Max-rank Knowledges")


renau1g
I really don't have much experience with Eberron.  Where does the 'trait: Absent-minded' come from?  If you're using the Unearthed Arcana, that would be 2 extra books since you're allready using Eberron for Artificer.

The blunderbuss linked to an empty page.  If you want to use a gun in D&D, they have several examples in the DMG, pg 145-146.  I'd allow up to Modern-era weapons. 
[sblock=modern gun costs]
Pistol, Automatic: 500
Revolver: 500
Rifle, Hunting: 650
Rifle, Automatic: 750
Shotgun: 550
No explosives
*Prices are for NON-masterworked versions*
[/sblock]

Glasseye - I'm going to have to say no to complete champion, I have no way of accessing it, and what I HAVE seen has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Rathan - Having a character who's REALLY good against a single type of enemy is usually counter-productive.  It makes encounters against those types of enemies too easy, and leaves your character under-powered for other encounters. I wouldn't suggest focusing so much on your turning ability.


----------



## renau1g (May 8, 2009)

Jemal said:


> renau1g
> I really don't have much experience with Eberron.  Where does the 'trait: Absent-minded' come from?  If you're using the Unearthed Arcana, that would be 2 extra books since you're allready using Eberron for Artificer.
> 
> The blunderbuss linked to an empty page.  If you want to use a gun in D&D, they have several examples in the DMG, pg 145-146.  I'd allow up to Modern-era weapons.
> ...




Absent minded is indeed from Unearthed Arcana, it was on the SRD so I assumed that's in core, I'll remove.

I'll get to try and craft me one of them shotguns  I'll probably still call it a blunderbuss, which after watching the Deadliest Warrior last week, was pretty cool.


----------



## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

Crafting a shotgun would be a complex task, probably DC 20-25.  Also, if you plan on doing pre-game crafting, you should know that I require any pre-game crafting to be done by taking 10.  IE if you can craft an item taking 10, you can craft it.  Otherwise you have to wait till the game starts, or buy it normally.


----------



## Theroc (May 8, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Really I was just trying to find a Template or race that would make a particularly good Cleric, as opposed to one that doesn't really affect things at all.  Most templates and such drop Charisma or Wisdom and thus aren't suitable for a Cleric.
> 
> Was thinking something akin to the "Warrior-Priest" from Warhammer.  Basically a Cleric with War and Destruction domains, who channels positive energy.
> 
> Though, if you allow reserve feats, I might poke some people who know about them and make a Wizard.




Not sure if you missed this, but Rhun had also asked about Reserve Feats from Complete Mage and no answer on that yet.

My character choice pretty much depends on whether or not you allow Reserve Feats... and whether we have even a remotely balanced party composition, lol.


----------



## Rhun (May 8, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Not sure if you missed this, but Rhun had also asked about Reserve Feats from Complete Mage and no answer on that yet.
> 
> My character choice pretty much depends on whether or not you allow Reserve Feats... and whether we have even a remotely balanced party composition, lol.





The slight difference is I'm playing a caster whether reserve feats are allowed or not.  Reserve feats are pretty good, but they aren't so fantastic that they radically change a caster into something their not. At low levels, a loaded crossbow is almost as good as most of them.


----------



## Theroc (May 8, 2009)

Rhun said:


> The slight difference is I'm playing a caster whether reserve feats are allowed or not.  Reserve feats are pretty good, but they aren't so fantastic that they radically change a caster into something their not. At low levels, a loaded crossbow is almost as good as most of them.




Ah... I wouldn't know, not having access to them.  I blame my concern with running out of spells early in the training room and gimping my group.  lol.


----------



## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

I'll allow complete mage, but it would count as your 'one extra source'


----------



## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Ah... I wouldn't know, not having access to them.  I blame my concern with running out of spells early in the training room and gimping my group.  lol.




And that's why I love Warlocks.  Might as well be an archer with unlimited arrows.


----------



## renau1g (May 8, 2009)

Posted in the RG.


----------



## Theroc (May 8, 2009)

Jemal said:


> And that's why I love Warlocks.  Might as well be an archer with unlimited arrows.




I'd be a warlock, if it wasn't for my lack of longterm access to have the full information on them.  (Currently lacking access to Complete Arcane, so I can't get anything on 'locks that isn't in Crystal Keep's PDF[Which means no invocations, just Eldritch Blast...])


----------



## renau1g (May 8, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Crafting a shotgun would be a complex task, probably DC 20-25.  Also, if you plan on doing pre-game crafting, you should know that I require any pre-game crafting to be done by taking 10.  IE if you can craft an item taking 10, you can craft it.  Otherwise you have to wait till the game starts, or buy it normally.




Ok... If it's 20 I'm ok, if it's higher no go. I've put it in as if 20, if not I'll adjust my sheet.

Thanks!


----------



## Rhun (May 8, 2009)

Jemal said:


> And that's why I love Warlocks.  Might as well be an archer with unlimited arrows.




And you design them well. One of these days here I'm going to build a melee warlock, using your PC Nargon as a template. That character was bad-ass. Until he got munched on by a bunch of Bhuts.


----------



## Rhun (May 8, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Ah... I wouldn't know, not having access to them.  I blame my concern with running out of spells early in the training room and gimping my group.  lol.




Low level magic-users will always run out of spells early. By the time you reach mid-level, the fighters will run out of hit points before you run out of spells. I'll try to get you some info on the reserve feats this weekend, though.


----------



## Rathan (May 8, 2009)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Rathan - Having a character who's REALLY good against a single type of enemy is usually counter-productive. It makes encounters against those types of enemies too easy, and leaves your character under-powered for other encounters. I wouldn't suggest focusing so much on your turning ability.




I hadn't realized I was being one sided with my turning until you had mentioned it to me really heh.... I swapped Improved turning and extra turning for two feats in Complete Divine after I saw you were allowing 'one alternate sourse' and I'm choosing complete divine as mine.... I went with augment healing, and Sacred Boost both listed as to what they do and what page they can be found on in Comp. Divine as well..


----------



## Theroc (May 8, 2009)

Rathan said:


> I hadn't realized I was being one sided with my turning until you had mentioned it to me really heh.... I swapped Improved turning and extra turning for two feats in Complete Divine after I saw you were allowing 'one alternate sourse' and I'm choosing complete divine as mine.... I went with augment healing, and Sacred Boost both listed as to what they do and what page they can be found on in Comp. Divine as well..




Complete Divine won't take up your "Alternate source" as it was one of Jemal's accepted sources.


----------



## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

Rathan - Theroc is correct, Complete Divine is on my list of 'base' sources, as are PHB, DMG, PHB2, complete Arcane/warrior/adventurer, and Spell Compendium.


----------



## Rathan (May 8, 2009)

The I guess I'm good then heh.... feats are ok then Jemal? little better than stacking them all on top of turning?


----------



## Theroc (May 8, 2009)

I will most likely play a Duskblade, if they are permitted.

Just need to see if I can find all the info I need.  I believe Rhun will be helping me out a bit with that.  Will get a sheet up once I'm positive how the class will be setup and all.


----------



## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

Rathan - Aye

Theroc - Duskblade's a good choice.


----------



## GlassEye (May 8, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Glasseye - I'm going to have to say no to complete champion, I have no way of accessing it, and what I HAVE seen has left a bad taste in my mouth




Not a problem.  And I'm already noticing some other minor things I'd like to change so I wouldn't look too closely at the character yet.


----------



## GlassEye (May 8, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Crafting a shotgun would be a complex task, probably DC 20-25.  Also, if you plan on doing pre-game crafting, you should know that I require any pre-game crafting to be done by taking 10.  IE if you can craft an item taking 10, you can craft it.  Otherwise you have to wait till the game starts, or buy it normally.




I would assume this applies to pre-game Handle Animal training?


----------



## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

yes.


----------



## Voda Vosa (May 8, 2009)

Great, probably tomorrow I'll have something done


----------



## GlassEye (May 9, 2009)

Aside from a few small things my character is done and I'll be posting it soon.  I do have a couple of questions, though.  What's your opinion of the Arcane Hierophant from Races of the Wild?  My pc is currently set up to be able to go in that direction should we ever get that far and if it is allowed.

More importantly, animal companion...  I was thinking about a black swan.  Obviously, there isn't a swan in the books so I was wondering if you would allow using the eagle stats for a swan with whatever changes might be necessary?  If not, I'd probably go with a wolf.

Edit: Also, with your permission, I would like to use the PBH2 alternate class feature Bardic Knack instead of Bardic Knowledge.


----------



## Jemal (May 9, 2009)

All of that is OK, I suppose, though I'll have to look over the Animals section and find something, b/c Eagle and Swan don't mesh very well IMO


----------



## GlassEye (May 9, 2009)

I admit the similarity is tenuous.  Don't go to a lot of extra trouble, it was just an idea.  I can always go with the wolf.


----------



## Rhun (May 9, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> I admit the similarity is tenuous.  Don't go to a lot of extra trouble, it was just an idea.  I can always go with the wolf.





I was bit by a big swan once...it left a bruise. I don't think I would have been so lucky had it been an eagle.


----------



## Voda Vosa (May 9, 2009)

Here's a sketch, lacks background and items mostly. Just to see if my math are fine.

[sblock=Gnome Wizard]

```
Name: Dalomock Zalim
Class: Wizard Illusionist
Race: gnome
Size: small
Gender: Male
Alignment: chaotic good


Str: 08 -1 -2     Level: 2         XP: 1000
Dex: 12 +1        BAB: +1         HP: 19
Con: 18 +4 +2     Grapple: 0     Dmg Red: 
Int: 18 +4        Speed: 20'      Spell Res: 
Wis: 10 +0        Init: +1        Spell Save: +0
Cha: 08 -1        ACP: 0          Spell Fail: 0%

                Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:          10    +0    +0     +1    +1    +0    +0    12
Touch: 11              Flatfooted: 11

                           Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      0     +4          +3
Ref:                       0     +1          +1
Will:                      3     +0          +3

Weapon                Attack   Damage     Critical
Light corssbow          +2      1d6         x 2 
Quarterstaff            +0      1d4         x2

Languages: Gnome, Dwarven, Elven, Draconic, Common
Class:  Familiar, Scribe scroll, Spells	
Feats: Spell Focus (Illusion)

Skill Points: 24+6       Max Ranks: 5/2
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Spellcraft                   5    +4          +9
Knowledge(arcana)            5    +4          +9
Concentration                5    +4          +9
Craft (alchemy)              5    +4    +2   +11
Decipher Script              5    +4          +9
Knowledge(Nature)            5    +4          +9

Equipment:               Cost  Weight
Familiar (Toad)         100gp                  
Light Crossbow
Quarterstaff
Wizard robes
Spellbook

                       Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push 500
Max Weight:           1-33  34-66 67-100 100

Prhibited schools: divination, Necromancy

Spell DC: 4 (int) + Spell Level

Spells (4 lvl 0, +1 ill & 3 lvl 1, +1 ill)

Level 1
Magic missile
Mage armor
Color spray
Shield
Disguise Self
Silent Image
Reduce Person
Feather Fall
Burning Hands

Age: 59
Height: 1 meters
Weight: 35 kg
Eyes: blue
Hair: black
Skin: withe
```
[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (May 9, 2009)

As Rhun pointed out, attack modes would be rather dissimilar.  I like the swan idea, but I think it would be one of what's referred to as a 'non-combat' pet... which doesn't fit in very well with the Arcane Heirophant's "uber-familiar"


----------



## Theroc (May 10, 2009)

Hrm... not finding what I need for the Duskblade.

Thinking I may try a Paladin or go back to the Cleric idea.  

Are you allowing any paladin variants from the Unearthed Arcana?


----------



## renau1g (May 10, 2009)

Jemal said:


> As Rhun pointed out, attack modes would be rather dissimilar.  I like the swan idea, but I think it would be one of what's referred to as a 'non-combat' pet... which doesn't fit in very well with the Arcane Heirophant's "uber-familiar"




Yeah, swan's are crazy, but not in the same way that a bird of prey trained for war would be, nor to the same level a wolf or bear is.

Now... I still wouldn't mess with them, my friend was attacked by one while we were in Cedar point one time (amusement park in Ohio, USA) when he fell into the area were a bunch were hanging out. I was great fun to watch him run from the swan chasing him...


----------



## Myth and Legend (May 10, 2009)

I went to the UK last fall and i saw the falconer at Warwick castle. The large birds of pray are very strong and have long claws. They are hard to train (as they are not very intelligent), but a swan is nothing more than a snack to one of the larger predators.


----------



## GlassEye (May 10, 2009)

Ok, it seems we are all agreed that a swan isn't workable for the purpose of an animal companion.   A wolf is equally acceptable to the _theme_ of the character (Apollo at 2nd level) so I will have a wolf companion instead.  Unless Jemal lets me have a giant cicada instead. j/k!


----------



## renau1g (May 10, 2009)

He can bury himself and in 17 years he'll be ready for battle


----------



## GlassEye (May 11, 2009)

Hey, I could get lucky and have one on a 13 year cycle. 

Anyway, Cal is finished and updated (except for that spare 300 gold but I figure it can go for meat for the canine).


----------



## ishalleatyourflesh (May 11, 2009)

as always i come in late and try to muscle my way in... so i was thinking a kobold dragonfire adept from dragon magic... that thinks he's a baby white dragon...

so i guess dragon magic would be my source but i would like the feats from races of dragon, the other option would be to take dragon shaman and the class suck more then the dragon fire adept...


----------



## Theroc (May 11, 2009)

I've decided to try a straight Wizard... hopefully we won't get totally eaten alive in those chambers... we'll have to send the Clerics in to take the beatings...


----------



## renau1g (May 11, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Hey, I could get lucky and have one on a 13 year cycle.
> 
> Anyway, Cal is finished and updated (except for that spare 300 gold but I figure it can go for meat for the canine).




Why don't you buy some potions or scrolls?


----------



## GlassEye (May 11, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Why don't you buy some potions or scrolls?




I kinda recall Jemal saying no magical or alchemical items.  I'll look and see if I can find that post, just to be sure...


----------



## Theroc (May 11, 2009)

Jemal, may I use "Living Enworld" as my extra source?  

Link to the extra material: http://www.enworld.org/forum/living-en-world/142438-rules-mechanics.html

I'm trying not to use materials I don't have access to for this character, to avoid overextending myself and relying on others for information, so I thought this would be appropriate.

Edit: LEW also has it's own wiki
http://bluwiki.com/go/LEW


----------



## Rhun (May 11, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> I kinda recall Jemal saying no magical or alchemical items.  I'll look and see if I can find that post, just to be sure...





It was in the first post of this thread.


----------



## renau1g (May 11, 2009)

& that's why you get paid the big bucks sir Rhun.


----------



## Voda Vosa (May 11, 2009)

Yes. A wizard without alchemical thingies, is like a naked belly dancer. I'm just not sure why.


----------



## Rhun (May 11, 2009)

renau1g said:


> & that's why you get paid the big bucks sir Rhun.




I'm supposed to get paid? Man, I always miss out on the good stuff!


----------



## Rathan (May 11, 2009)

*hands Rhun a Swiss Bank Account.... but doesn't tell him it's the Swiss Bank of Rathan* hehehe...


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## Theroc (May 12, 2009)

By "No magic or alchemical" items, does that exclude things such as Adamantine or Darkwood items?

Also, Alchemical silver weapons count as "Alchemical" I'm assuming, doublechecking because I don't think you can "silver" things via alchemy.


----------



## Jemal (May 12, 2009)

For purposes of this game, Magical/alchemical does not count the 'special materials' that weapons and armour can be made out of, such as darkwood, silver, etc.  
Magical means "Magical" (Potions, scrolls, wondrous items, etc.. anything that would detect as magic under a detect magic spell)
Alchemical means no alchemical potions poisons, acid, alchemists fire, etc.

If in doubt, just ask.

Theroc - 
I'm gonna have to say no, there's a lot of information there to go through which I'm not familiar with, and the little I have seen seems to be a compilation of things pulled from different books.



> as always i come in late and try to muscle my way in... so i was thinking a kobold dragonfire adept from dragon magic... that thinks he's a baby white dragon...
> 
> so i guess dragon magic would be my source but i would like the feats from races of dragon, the other option would be to take dragon shaman and the class suck more then the dragon fire adept...




Well considering this is partially based off one of your settings that I've converted to D&D, I'd have felt rather bad if I didn't save you a spot.

That leaves us with 10 players (Hopefully 2 groups of 5 as far as the 'training room' is concerned).


----------



## rpgramen (May 12, 2009)

I call dibs on "Team Awesome"


----------



## Theroc (May 12, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Theroc -
> I'm gonna have to say no, there's a lot of information there to go through which I'm not familiar with, and the little I have seen seems to be a compilation of things pulled from different books.




Can I at least run one feat in particular by you?  The feat really fits the concept for my Wizard I'm working on, and this feat is why I requested to use LEW as a resource anyway.


*"Summoning Concentration [General]*

 You can increase the time that your summoned creatures remain by concentrating.
*Benefit:* You can maintain the duration of a summon spell (such as summon monster or summon nature's ally) through concentration. As long as you concentrate on the spell, do not count time off its duration. After you stop concentrating, the normal duration resumes and then terminates as normal. You cannot resume concentration, regardless of the effects of other feats that would normally allow you to do so.

SUMMONING CONCENTRATION Copyright 2001, Carl Cram�r
Revised by the Netbook of Feats Review Board"


----------



## Myth and Legend (May 12, 2009)

> For purposes of this game, Magical/alchemical does not count the 'special materials' that weapons and armour can be made out of, such as darkwood, silver, etc.
> Magical means "Magical" (Potions, scrolls, wondrous items, etc.. anything that would detect as magic under a detect magic spell)
> Alchemical means no alchemical potions poisons, acid, alchemists fire, etc.



oh, i have to remove the potions from my character sheet then. This will be done asap.


----------



## ishalleatyourflesh (May 12, 2009)

so can i be a special case and use two extra sources?  i really, Really want to play the dragonfire adept and use the kobold feats. the other option is to use the halfdragon template and add take it level by level adjustment.

How about "races of dragon magic" plzs


----------



## Jemal (May 12, 2009)

Flesh - My suggestion is to use Races of Dragon and do the half-dragon thing.  Start off with 1 lvl and the draconic template and as you level up we'll upgrade your level adjustment until you have the half-dragon template.


----------



## Myth and Legend (May 12, 2009)

Do all of these have to be removed Jemal? :

*Potion of Cure light wounds* x 2 100 gp
*Holy water (flask)* 25gp 1lb
*Tindertwig x 6* 6gp


----------



## Jemal (May 12, 2009)

Yes, please.


----------



## Theroc (May 12, 2009)

Jemal, did you get a chance to look over my last question about that feat?


----------



## Jemal (May 12, 2009)

I'm gonna have to think about that one.. Are you going to be a dedicated summoner?  They can get pretty powerful, especially if you don't have to worry about running out of spells b/c you can keep them going as long as you want.


----------



## Theroc (May 12, 2009)

Jemal said:


> I'm gonna have to think about that one.. Are you going to be a dedicated summoner?  They can get pretty powerful, especially if you don't have to worry about running out of spells b/c you can keep them going as long as you want.




I am assuming my spell would end once the creature I summoned is brought to  -10 HP or whatever.

And Coravin was going to be a Summoner who dabbles in making stuff go boom.  Also, My understanding is "concentrating" on the spell takes up my standard action each round I continue concentrating.

Edit: If you feel it's too powerful as is, I'd be willing to try to find ways to tone it down a bit.


----------



## Jemal (May 12, 2009)

hmm.. would you be OK with a alternate summoning method instead of a feat?

Duration of Summon Monster spells changes from 1 round/level to Concentration +1 round.  

If not, then we'll figure something else out.

My problem with the concentration PLUS normal duration is that it means you could walk around with a summoned creature, then once combat starts you let the concentration slip and do your own thing, and the summon would still last a few rounds (Basically giving you a free spell-cast at the beginning of each combat)


----------



## Theroc (May 12, 2009)

Jemal said:


> hmm.. would you be OK with a alternate summoning method instead of a feat?
> 
> Duration of Summon Monster spells changes from 1 round/level to Concentration +1 round.
> 
> ...




The alternate method could work.  What I'd actually wanted to do with the Summoning Concentration was Summon the monster and keep it afield as long as possible, thus squeezing the most use out of my slightly limited spell slots.  I get what, 3 level 1 spells and 4 level 0?  That means 2-3 summons and some other spell and a few Acid Orbs or something.

But Concentration +1 rounds, if I understand correctly, would allow me to do essentially the same thing, and lets me use the feat for something else... so I suppose that works out fine, lol.


----------



## Jemal (May 12, 2009)

Concentration +1 means the creature gets a single round after you cease concentrating, as opposed to 1 round per level.  it also means it can't be extended.

And if you're looking for spell slots: A second lvl sorc with at least 14 charisma has 5 1st lvl (6 0-lvl) spells per day, though only knows 2 first/5 cantrips.  If you start off with a race that has a Cha bonus, you could have a 20 charisma and gain a 6th 1st lvl spell.


----------



## renau1g (May 12, 2009)

You could be an Aasimar  I could speak to you in Celestial


----------



## Rathan (May 12, 2009)

yes yesssss....  play a celestial being and my character will follow you around with quill and ink recording everything you do because he's never met a celestial before and MUST study it hehehe


----------



## Theroc (May 12, 2009)

Hrm... cannot be extended... that could suck later on... but then again, who knows how long a PbP will last.  And later I could get more blasts and such.

Not sure which way I'd prefer it just yet.  Right NOW the Concentration thing is better, but later, rounds/level would probably be better.  I'll have to think about it a bit more.

As for Sorcerer... I do like spontaneous casting, but the flavor doesn't fit the scholarly research mentality I've gotten for Coravin.  He's a summoner because summoning the various extraplanar creatures is more convenient for studying the Planes than it is to try to explore the planes alone.

Jemal, do the variant rules in the hypertext SRD count as one's 'extra' source?

I'm considering actually specializing in Conjuration and using some of the variants there, but I'm not certain.


----------



## Jemal (May 13, 2009)

the srd has some good stuff and some.. NOT good stuff, so I'd have to know what you're planning on using before hand.


----------



## Myth and Legend (May 13, 2009)

Jemal i removed the magical trinkets and spent 100 gp on raising the Composite Longbow to +1str. I have some coins left over though, i wanted to ask you, how much would a banner with Jamien's noble coat of arms and colours cost? (this will really annoy the chaotic characters and make him an epitome of a nobleborn knight, for all things good and bad) Or perhaps how much would it cost to have his family's crest and colours to be painted on his horse's barding, and on his own cape and even worn as a cloth doublet atop his chainmail?


----------



## ishalleatyourflesh (May 13, 2009)

i'm was having trouble spending the 1000 gp, he gave us, it's not like my character uses weapons, he grudgingly wears leather armour (his scales haven't fully come in yet), he has a pair of glasses because he has some trouble with brighter lights, but other then those two items i don't know what he would have. then i remembered he thinks he's a dragon so the rest goes to his hoard.


----------



## Theroc (May 13, 2009)

Jemal said:


> the srd has some good stuff and some.. NOT good stuff, so I'd have to know what you're planning on using before hand.




Specialist Wizard Variants :: d20srd.org

Was considering taking one or more of those options, but I haven't decided yet.


Jemal, do you have any intended level range for this campaign to span?


----------



## Arkhandus (May 13, 2009)

If there's still a slot for me, my human duskblade is almost ready for posting.  Just have to finish his background and the essay on why he's going to the school.


----------



## Jemal (May 13, 2009)

Myth - According to Arms & Equipment, a standard or banner costs 30GP+ and gives a +2 circumstance bonus to be seen from a distance.  I think I'll use that.  So, if you want a bit more elaborate banner feel free to spend as much as you want on it.  If you spend a fair bit I'll probably even end up giving you other circumstance bonuses for having such an impressive banner.

Theroc - Those don't look too bad.

Level range will be 2+.  I have no plans for an 'end game' to this campaign, it's pretty much open ended and can accomodate PC's at any level.  As we progress, Storylines will develop dependant on how the characters act/what they do, etc.

Ark - Yep.

Here's the roster I currently have of 10 PC's, btw.

Rhun
Renau1g
Rathan
Arkhandus
Glasseye
Voda Vosa
Myth and Legend
Rpgramen
Theroc
ishalleatyourflesh


----------



## Jemal (May 13, 2009)

OK, just went over the characters in the Rogue's Gallery

First I have a few requests for everyone, then I'll get down to the individual nitpicking.
1: Please include somewhere prominent (Such as at the begining of your sheet) which alternate source you have access to.  for some characters it is obvious, but others not so much.
2: If your ability scores are modified due to race/etc, please include this with your scores.
3: Please Indicate # of ranks in any skills.
4: Don't forget to include age and appearance (Ht, Wt, Eye/hair color)
5: Please Include Prices for all your gear.
6: Please include what source any feat/item/spell/etc is from if it is not PHB, for quicker reference.

[sblock=Character Nitpicks]
Renau1g 
Scrolls are magic items, they'll have to go.

Where did you get the 'Modron' language from?  I was under the impression they didn't exist anymore.

Artificers only get d6 hd, and you have 10 con, so you should have 12 hp, not 14 (Unless I missed something).

I suggest using some of your gold to buy the material components required for your infusions.  many of them have costly components (That is to say, they have listed gp costs)

*The dean accepts your Essay pending further analysis of your capabilities*

Myth and Legend
Could you include a section where you indicate your most common attack routine? (IE: Long sword + X, 1d8+X damage, threat 19-20/x2)
RE: Knowledge - No, you may choose a knowledge that is NOT a class skill to GAIN as a class skill.  The 'bonus' only applies if you allready had EVERY knowledge skill as a class skill.

None of the carrying containers in the PHB really detail how much they can carry, so I guess as long as it makes sense, then you can put it in them.  Just indicate what's in which container and if I think it seems like too much I'll tell you.

Arrows come in quivers of 20 for 1 gp.

Food and water will be provided by the school

A few notes on your horse: He won't be allowed to wander the halls with you, you'll have to stable him until you need him.  Also, not all of the encounters in the training room will have space for your mount.  

*The dean accepts your Essay pending further analysis of your capabilities*

Rhun
I see you're not done yet.  I read through what you do have and only have one comment: 
I'd like you to take a different Taboo.  The 'can't eat meat' thing won't come up as the school can offer you any form of food you require.  As such it's not much of a restriction.

*The dean accepts your Essay pending further analysis of your capabilities*

Rpgramen
Your shortbow attack should be 1 higher. (+1 bab, +4 dex, +1 mw=+6.)  Also don't forget to add the +1 damage for point blank on your second entry. (It should be attack +7, damage 1d6+1 if within 30')
Everburning torch is magical, and therefore not allowed.

*The dean accepts your Essay pending further analysis of your capabilities*

Glasseye
As with Myth's horse, your pack dog will not be allowed to roam the halls with you.  Exceptions are made for animal companions and familiars, but not pets/mounts/beasts of burden.
I count only 36 of your 38 skill points spent, and I don't think any of your listed skills are cross class.

*The dean accepts your Essay pending further analysis of your capabilities*

Rathan
Is there a mechanical reason you chose Boccob?  Some feat/spell/PrC down the line you plan on taking?
Sunrods are Alchemical, Everburning Torches are Magical.  these will need to be replaced.
I don't allow unspecified costly material components.  If you have spells that require costly material components you'll have to pay for each seperately and keep track of what you have.

*The Essay is supposed to be from the student.*

Theroc
Your HP breakdown should read 2d4+4 (2/lvl for 14 con), but the final result is correct: 12 hp
Don't forget that as Wizards have all knowledge skills, you gain a +2 school bonus to any knowledge check that you have max ranks in.
Still need feats, spells, equipment.

*The dean accepts your Essay pending further analysis of your capabilities*

Ishalleatyourflesh
You need an alignment
You should have a -4 size penalty to Intimidate for being small. 
Instead of just writing 'attack', please indicate what you are attacking with.

*The dean accepts your Essay pending further analysis of your capabilities*
[/sblock]

Allright, that's everybody who's posted in the RG so far.  Apologies to anybody who may have added/edited while I was typing this, it did take a little while.


----------



## renau1g (May 13, 2009)

Jemal said:


> OK, just went over the characters in the Rogue's Gallery
> 
> First I have a few requests for everyone, then I'll get down to the individual nitpicking.
> 1: Please include somewhere prominent (Such as at the begining of your sheet) which alternate source you have access to.  for some characters it is obvious, but others not so much.
> ...




Whoops... obviously I'm an idiot when everyone was talking about magic items... sorry. 

Modron.... I'm not sure where I got it from...?  Oh wait, the generator I was using had it listed as an available language. I switched it out for Ignan.

I've update HP, I had originally had 12 Con & 12 dex, but flipped them around.

I've added some of the infusions material components, he's got more ointment than he knows what to do with 

Should be good to go Jemal.

Thanks!


----------



## Theroc (May 13, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Theroc - Those don't look too bad.
> 
> Level range will be 2+.  I have no plans for an 'end game' to this campaign, it's pretty much open ended and can accomodate PC's at any level.  As we progress, Storylines will develop dependant on how the characters act/what they do, etc.




Does the variant rules in the SRD count as an alternate source, or do I still have an alternate source available if I find one I'd like?


----------



## Rathan (May 13, 2009)

Jemal:

Boccob: I Chose Boccob because it fit the characters back story, he wanted to do his own thing but still not displease his father, or displease him a little as possible... there's no mechanical reason for taking it.. it just fit... I tend to take things that fit with characters rather than those things to make them 'uber' later on.... 
Sunrods removed
Everburning Torch Removed
Spell Components Broken down and Listed with gold costs
Essay added.

That is all.. hehe


----------



## Theroc (May 13, 2009)

Jemal, what are your feelings on the Precocious Apprentice feat from Complete Arcane?


----------



## GlassEye (May 13, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Glasseye
> As with Myth's horse, your pack dog will not be allowed to roam the halls with you.  Exceptions are made for animal companions and familiars, but not pets/mounts/beasts of burden.
> I count only 36 of your 38 skill points spent, and I don't think any of your listed skills are cross class.




General notations made as requested.  FYI, the pack dog is just for those times when the students are given missions outside the school.  I'll be more than glad to keep it kenneled.  Skill points: I did purchase one skill rank as a cross class skill before it became a class skill with my second class.  This has now been noted on my sheet.


----------



## Rhun (May 14, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Rhun
> I see you're not done yet.  I read through what you do have and only have one comment:
> I'd like you to take a different Taboo.  The 'can't eat meat' thing won't come up as the school can offer you any form of food you require.  As such it's not much of a restriction.




Jemal, I'm not sure the taboos are actually meant to be much of a restriction. I simply picked one from the list; I could have picked that she won't cut her hair, or drink alcohol, or wear a certain color...all from the list given, and none of those seem to have much of a restriction in game terms.

Do you have some suggestions on what type of taboos you want?


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## Jemal (May 14, 2009)

Theroc
they would be a seperate source


> Jemal, what are your feelings on the Precocious Apprentice feat from Complete Arcane?



 I feel as though you have the wrong book, there's no such feat in my complete arcane.

Rhun 
Each of the taboos has complications that could arise in game.
Can't eat meat : What if there's nothing else to eat?
Can't wear green: Makes it hard to infiltrate an army where the uniforms include green
Can't own more than you can carry - Self explanatory
Can't bathe: You stink.
etc.

If the taboos weren't meant to be a restriction, there wouldn't be a penalty for breaking them (You can no longer cast spells that day).  Having to break a taboo should be rare, but possible.


----------



## Rhun (May 14, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Theroc
> they would be a seperate source
> I feel as though you have the wrong book, there's no such feat in my complete arcane.




Page 181. It is at the bottom of the page along with the feat _Collegiate Wizard_ under the *Wizard Training* heading.



Jemal said:


> Rhun
> Each of the taboos has complications that could arise in game.
> Can't eat meat : What if there's nothing else to eat?
> Can't wear green: Makes it hard to infiltrate an army where the uniforms include green
> ...




Fair enough. Obviously "can't bathe" doesn't fit the character concept..."can't own more than you can carry" could get extremely complicated at highter levels. 

Let me think on it.


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## Jemal (May 14, 2009)

Why do they put feats in a sidenote under a non-rules section?  I've owned this book since the day it came out and I don't recall ever seeing either of those before. *sigh*  stupid wizards.

OK, after reading them both my thoughts are: 

Collegiate wizard is bull. +2 knowledge, +3 1st lvl spells known, and +2 spells known per level?

Precocious Apprentice: Kind of OP at low level, but outlives its usefulness rather quickly.  I'll allow it, depending on what spell you choose.  No scorching ray, for example.


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## Rathan (May 14, 2009)

I'd have to agree with you on the Collegiate... that's CRAZY overpowered... doesn't seem it at first but when scrolls get to costing over 2 grand and more at around 6th level you're saving yourself a BOAT load of money with this feat not to mention giving a low level wizard a rather crazy list of spells at lower levels for no apparent reason other than you studied hard... which most wizards STOP doing after 1st level and start wandering off to adventure... 

Why not scorching ray?.... is it because you feel the spell is too powerful... or is there a game mechanic that makes it not feasible to take that spell because of some strange reason?... I have no real reason to ask other than loving that spell... just wondering why some spells are ok but some.. i.e. scorching ray is not..


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## Jemal (May 14, 2009)

b/c scorching ray's damage isn't based on caster level, it's a straight 4d6 damage which i feel is too much at this level, even if it is only once.


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## Rhun (May 14, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Why do they put feats in a sidenote under a non-rules section?  I've owned this book since the day it came out and I don't recall ever seeing either of those before. *sigh*  stupid wizards.




 Can't argue...stupid to put things in sections where they don't belong. I guess they consider them "optional" feats?



Jemal said:


> Collegiate wizard is bull. +2 knowledge, +3 1st lvl spells known, and +2 spells known per level?




While I agree with you on some level, I also think the cost that the core rules sets for adding new spells to a caster's spellbook is fairly restrictive. And after all, it doesn't change how many spells a wizard can prepare, just what they gain in their spellbook.


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## Rathan (May 14, 2009)

I hear you there Rhun.. BUT... from 1st to 9th level.. if you got two extra spells for free rather than buying scrolls to copy to your spellbook... you'd save about 26,250 gold over the life time of a character... for one feat.. that's kinda nuts... granted you get a lot more use out of some feats like cleave or power attack over the lifetime of a character... but for a wizard spells are its bread and butter.. to save that much on a single feat.. it's nucking futs....

For a higher level campaign *I* might allow it as a DM as it's more balanced.. for lower level campaigns.. no way.... it's just too OP in my opinion....


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## rpgramen (May 14, 2009)

All fix'd, my good chum.


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## Theroc (May 15, 2009)

Jemal, I think Coravin is just about completed.  Mind going over him again?


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## Rhun (May 15, 2009)

Rathan said:


> I hear you there Rhun.. BUT... from 1st to 9th level.. if you got two extra spells for free rather than buying scrolls to copy to your spellbook... you'd save about 26,250 gold over the life time of a character... for one feat.. that's kinda nuts...




Oh, I'm right there with you, and not arguing that Jemal should allow the feat. But you pointing out that it can save you 26,250 gold over 9 levels by just giving you an extra 2 spells per level (known)...that kind of proves my point about how overpriced learning new spells is in 3.x.  A fighter could get a sweet, sweet weapon for that much coin, and he'd actually be able to use it in every fight, every round.


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## Jemal (May 15, 2009)

Allright, more nitpicks!

Renau1g
You still have the Scrolls listed in your Crafting log

Theroc
Looks pretty good, but you won't need the alchemists lab, there will be crafting stations available at the school (Provided you aren't trying to hide what you're creating from the teachers).


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## Rhun (May 15, 2009)

Jemal, I'll get Amaya completed this weekend, if that is okay?


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## Jemal (May 15, 2009)

NO!!! YOU MAKE NOW OR NO SOUP FOR YOU!

*L* j/k, that's fine Rhun.  I'm thinking I'll start this game sometime after the weekend, probly during my next set of days off (AKA wednesday).

EDIT: 
Acutally, on second thought, I'll probably post the start sooner, just for RPing.  That wouldn't require your characters to be finished  until you decided to do something that needed Rules interpretation (LIke the training room)


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## Theroc (May 15, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Allright, more nitpicks!
> 
> 
> Theroc
> Looks pretty good, but you won't need the alchemists lab, there will be crafting stations available at the school (Provided you aren't trying to hide what you're creating from the teachers).




So, I'd have the benefit of a Lab in the school without paying?  Works for me.  ~finds something else non-magical to spend 500 gold on.~


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## Rhun (May 15, 2009)

Jemal said:


> NO!!! YOU MAKE NOW OR NO SOUP FOR YOU!
> 
> *L* j/k, that's fine Rhun.  I'm thinking I'll start this game sometime after the weekend, probly during my next set of days off (AKA wednesday).
> 
> ...





Sounds like a plan.


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## Rathan (May 15, 2009)

True Rhun... and to at least MY experience with spells... an enemy wizard spellbook doesn't just appear often after he's defeated so you can copy down spells he knows to your spellbook.... it's been my experience that if you want new specific spells.. you have to go buy them heh... not sure if this is just DM oversight over my years of gaming.... or just the DM being cruel to mages heh


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## Theroc (May 15, 2009)

Rathan said:


> True Rhun... and to at least MY experience with spells... an enemy wizard spellbook doesn't just appear often after he's defeated so you can copy down spells he knows to your spellbook.... it's been my experience that if you want new specific spells.. you have to go buy them heh... not sure if this is just DM oversight over my years of gaming.... or just the DM being cruel to mages heh




~Note to self: Send the party sneak to snatch the spellbook before the wizard is defeated!~

lol


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## Rhun (May 15, 2009)

Rathan said:


> True Rhun... and to at least MY experience with spells... an enemy wizard spellbook doesn't just appear often after he's defeated so you can copy down spells he knows to your spellbook.... it's been my experience that if you want new specific spells.. you have to go buy them heh... not sure if this is just DM oversight over my years of gaming.... or just the DM being cruel to mages heh




I've left a few spellbooks around for my PCs to find. But generally when they defeat the bid bad wizard, they are far away from his actual lair.


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## Rathan (May 15, 2009)

That's the advantage that the NPC wizard has over the PC wizard.... THEY don't need to tote their spellbook around with them unless they're planning on not being hosed in the face by pc's.... an enemy wizard usually prepares their spells ahead of time and just shows up and his their way with the PC's.... we PC mages are always traveling... and thus.. need to tote these heavy spell tomes around with us LOL....


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## Jemal (May 15, 2009)

It's even worse for wizards in my campaigns, because I much prefer Sorcerors so there's even LESS chance of finding a spellbook.

Fortunately for this campaign you're at a school, so finding fellow wizards won't be as hard.  It's convincing them to let you copy their spells that's the adventure.


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## Rathan (May 15, 2009)

"hey can I copy that.." 
"no..." 
"but I just want to copy it so.. 
"nooooo.." 
"but it will make me.." 
"NO...." 
"come ooon just a little scribble here and.." 
"NO damn it... and if you don't go away I'm going to turn you into something that doesn't have a mouth...."

hehehehe


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## Rhun (May 15, 2009)

Looks like my PC will have to make friends with rogue who can YOINK some spellbooks.


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## GlassEye (May 15, 2009)

Jemal said:


> I'm thinking I'll start this game sometime after the weekend, probly during my next set of days off (AKA wednesday).
> 
> EDIT:
> Acutally, on second thought, I'll probably post the start sooner, just for RPing.  That wouldn't require your characters to be finished  until you decided to do something that needed Rules interpretation (LIke the training room)




FYI, I'll be travelling Sunday through Wednesday, possibly Thursday without internet access.


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## Jemal (May 17, 2009)

OK, I'm going to post the school up fairly soon here.  

Even if your character is not completely done, feel free to post IC as the first little while will be 'orientation' and hard stats will not likely be needed.

Also, everyone please tell me if you think your character is ready to go, so I can do a final check.


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## Theroc (May 17, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Also, everyone please tell me if you think your character is ready to go, so I can do a final check.




The only thing left for Coravin, I think, is my last two 1st level spells.


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## Rhun (May 17, 2009)

I should have my PC finished tonight.


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## Myth and Legend (May 17, 2009)

Completely done with Jamien the Knight.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 17, 2009)

i've edited Aussir to show his alinement and he doesn't get a -4 to intimidate checks for being small he gets a -4 for every size catagory smaller than his target he is and a +4 for every catagory larger

Aussir is ready to go.


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## Rathan (May 18, 2009)

Pretty sure Terrance Hawthorne is good to go.. just needs your approval Jemal...


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## renau1g (May 18, 2009)

Zero's all set. Thanks Jemal!


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## Arkhandus (May 18, 2009)

Keizaan Malzurak, duskblade, will be posted in the Rogues' Gallery shortly.  I'm just finishing his essay-part.  Apologies for not posting at least the rest of him earlier in the week, but I've been sidetracked by preparations for my second play-by-post.


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## Jemal (May 18, 2009)

Ark 
- don't worry bout it, he's there now.
Character looks good mechanically.  I would prefer it if your equipment wasn't in one large, hard-to-read block.  
I also just want to remind you that your duskblade will suffer from the spell failure chance of his armour, as he only has armoured mage(light), but is wearing medium armour(Breastplate), unless I missed something.

*The Dean accepts your essay*

Flesh 
- Ah, you are correct about intimidate.  Just keep it in mind whenever you use it b/c most of your 'targets' will be medium.

Renau1g 
- good to go

Rathan 
- You don't have an alternate source listed, is that b/c you aren't going to use one?
Rest looks good.

Myth
- You don't have an alternate source listed, is that b/c you aren't going to use one?
Rest looks good.

Theroc
- You still have an alchemists lab listed.
Make sure you tell me when you've picked the rest of your spells.
Rest looks good.


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## Jemal (May 18, 2009)

Also
IC Thread


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## Myth and Legend (May 18, 2009)

> - You don't have an alternate source listed, is that b/c you aren't going to use one?



 well i plan on sticking with a pure Knight (they go until 20). The only alternate source i might use is for feats. Can anyone suggest a good book with plenty of useful feats etc. for a knight?


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## Rhun (May 18, 2009)

Sorry, I fell a bit behind. But for the most part my PC is done. Her letter to the Dean is posted. Just got a few more details to flesh out on her char sheet.


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## Arkhandus (May 18, 2009)

Errr, yeah.......I, uh, forgot that.   Gonna change that to a chain shirt, not that he has anything to spend the spare gold on.

Also, his extra source is just the SRD, for possible feat choices later on or something.

Question: Should he have Chondathan as an automatic language as he would in Faerun, or no?


Myth & Legend: Complete Warrior is probably best for your Knight's feat selection, if you have it, otherwise the SRD has some non-core feats for warriors in the Divine, Epic, and Psionic sections (despite the titles, those sections each have a few General feats from the books they're taken from, not just magical or epic or psionic feats).


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## Rathan (May 19, 2009)

I don't really have a source I've needed to look into yet being so low a level and all... can someone suggest an alternate source for me that might be useful later on... as I've not mapped Terrance out much past his current level I haven't even thought of an alternate source yet.... a little help all?


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## GlassEye (May 19, 2009)

Cal should be ready to go.


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## Jemal (May 19, 2009)

Myth 
- Actually, not really.. For a straight up human Knight all you'd be looking at othe books for is feats, and you've allready got the big 3 for fighter-types (PHB, PHB2, Complete Warrior).  Anybody else got any ideas for him?

Rhun
- Mechanics look good so far.  Tell me when you've finished everything (spell selection/Equipment were the only things that don't look complete to me)

[sblock=The Dean accepts your Essay]
Not Often do I write personal letters of acceptance to applicants, but your story in particular called out to me.  You see, I too know the sting of such loss, and have born the burden of righteous vengeance.  It is my most fervent hope that you find what you seek here at the School, and when it comes time to return to your land, I foresee you going not only with the knowledge and power gained here, but perhaps with steadfast allies as well.

Good Luck
-Jemal Priscus, Dean & Founder.
[/sblock]

Rathan - Well that all depends on what kind of Priest you're planning on.  Complete Scoundrel could be an option, as could the Races Of books, but I think I covered most of the 'basics' with the sources I allowed right off the bat (Such was my hope and intention, anyways).  The extra sources aren't a "you must have one", they were for use if you had an intended/specific character concept that NEEDED one of them, such as playing an Eldritch Disciple from Complete Mage (Warlock/Priest hybrid), or a Grayguard from Complete Scoundrel(variant Paladin PrC).  

Basically something to distinguish your character's cultural/planar differences from other students.  It's by no means required.

Arkhandus 
- As I've allready told Theroc (Who also asked to use the SRD variant rules), everything from there is on a case by case basis. (Ask first)

Glasseye
- I don't actually have Races of the Wild, so you'll have to type out the specifics on feats/etc from it before taking them, so I can approve/dissaprove them.  Also, if you're allready planning towards something in that book I'd suggest asking about it now so you don't get there and then find out I won't allow it.
Character looks good to go... though as I've pointed out to other players, Rations aren't required as food of any sort required is provided freely by the cafeteria.


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## Rhun (May 19, 2009)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Rhun
> - Mechanics look good so far. Tell me when you've finished everything (spell selection/Equipment were the only things that don't look complete to me)




Mechanics should be done. Just got a little fluff to add, and as you stated I need to finish spells and equipment...got just a little more gold to spend. Should be complete in the next day or so.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 20, 2009)

i was just going over the student profiles and i found a few intresting statistics

#of Pcs 9
# of males 7 8
# of females 1
# of "its" 1
# of humans 8
# of non-humans 1
# of good characters 6
# of neutral characters 2
# of evil characters... 1


 sigh... the dm won' tlet me be an it.....


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## renau1g (May 20, 2009)

Watch out evil PC, you're outnumber 6 to 1 so don't try anything funny


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## Rhun (May 20, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Watch out evil PC, you're outnumber 6 to 1 so don't try anything funny




Who has the evil PC? I haven't look through everyone's character sheets yet to see who is playing what?


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## renau1g (May 20, 2009)

You won't know until it's too late, Rhun.


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## Rhun (May 20, 2009)

renau1g said:


> You won't know until it's too late, Rhun.





Ha, its probably you Ryan! Better make that first knife in the back count!


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## renau1g (May 20, 2009)

Bah! It's more of a shotgun blast than a knife. I wish I had taken a rogue level, nothing better than a sneak attack with a shotgun


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## Rhun (May 20, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Bah! It's more of a shotgun blast than a knife. I wish I had taken a rogue level, nothing better than a sneak attack with a shotgun




Time to play some d20 Modern!


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 23, 2009)

As to the shot gun sneak attack, i don't think you could do it with the shot because it's more AoE then attack roll but you could with a slug.


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## Rhun (May 23, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> As to the shot gun sneak attack, i don't think you could do it with the shot because it's more AoE then attack roll but you could with a slug.




Probably true. But is sounds cool.


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## Voda Vosa (May 25, 2009)

I think I'll give a step aside. Have fun you guys.


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## Jemal (May 25, 2009)

Voda - Bummer.   Any particular reason or just busy?


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## Voda Vosa (May 25, 2009)

I have a loooots of games in which I'm playing, and besides I have 2 games I'm DMing. I feel I can't be fair with all of them and keep quality posts. I know that if I get involved in another game I won't be able to give the necessary amount of time to each game. Anyway, if any of my games gets down, I'll be back. If I can rejoin, great; if not, well, life's not fair! Heh


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 26, 2009)

Aussir is a little confused about some things... well most things... but who want's a scaly little friend? you can feed him you homework and little critters, sick him on annoying class mates maybe find someway to make him your familiar and cast giantsize on him?


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## Theroc (May 26, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> Aussir is a little confused about some things... well most things... but who want's a scaly little friend? you can feed him you homework and little critters, sick him on annoying class mates maybe find someway to make him your familiar and cast giantsize on him?





Coravin's primarily intrigued by the outerplanes, but if Aussir were to assist Coravin, Coravin would likely prioritize his aid differently, depending.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 26, 2009)

giant size is a wu jen only spell that turns the caster the last three size catagries, collosal at 20th. it can only be cast on self, but if a wu jen took the feat that arcane caster can take to give them a familiar then they could share the spell with what ever thier familiar is. the baby dragon doesn't want to be a baby... but jemal's already icsnaded pc's for familiars... /sigh


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## Theroc (May 26, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> giant size is a wu jen only spell that turns the caster the last three size catagries, collosal at 20th. it can only be cast on self, but if a wu jen took the feat that arcane caster can take to give them a familiar then they could share the spell with what ever thier familiar is. the baby dragon doesn't want to be a baby... but jemal's already icsnaded pc's for familiars... /sigh






>.>  Okay... sorry, not read up on Wu Jen.


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## Rhun (May 26, 2009)

Took that last couple of days off from EN World, but I should be able to get back to regular posting now.


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## GlassEye (May 26, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Glasseye
> - I don't actually have Races of the Wild, so you'll have to type out the specifics on feats/etc from it before taking them, so I can approve/dissaprove them.  Also, if you're allready planning towards something in that book I'd suggest asking about it now so you don't get there and then find out I won't allow it.




The only thing I was thinking about from Races of the Wild was Arcane Hierophant (though that will be many levels from now).  For some reason, I thought you already knew about it. :/


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 28, 2009)

First of all i would like to say i'm sorry as a player. Aussir is kinda mean sometimes...


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## Jemal (May 28, 2009)

glasseye - I do know the Heirophant, it's ok.


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## renau1g (May 28, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> First of all i would like to say i'm sorry as a player. Aussir is kinda mean sometimes...




Don't worry, as long as it's IC I'm cool with it, some PC's are naturally mean, or dick-ish, or bossy, or whatever. The key is keeping it IC, it's much harder over PbP than in face to face. As long as you don't call _me_ anything, but rather Zero, than we're cool.

Just be aware he carries a big gun and knows who to use it (somewhat)


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 29, 2009)

OH? just remember Aussir is a small target.

So jemal what are those doucuments we got with our acceptence package?


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## Jemal (May 29, 2009)

*blank stare*
huh?


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 29, 2009)

you know the stuff the head master said we got with our acceptence packages, from like the first post. thou i would guess that it would be the first post, from the OOC thread ie: this one.


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## Jemal (May 29, 2009)

ah yes, you would be correct.  The 'documents' he was reffering to were my way of giving your characters the information about the school that I've detailed in the OOC thread.  Though you never know, might find something interesting in there that you haven't heard yet.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 29, 2009)

if no one has noticed yet Aussir sufferes from ADOS.


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## Theroc (May 29, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> if no one has noticed yet aussir sufferes from ados.





ados?


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 30, 2009)

Attention defic...OH SHINY!!


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## Rathan (May 30, 2009)

No no.... it's more like a shirt I used to own said... it went something like this...

"People say I have A.D.D... but they just don't understand........ OH LOOK! A chicken!"

man I loved my A.D.D shirt.... may it rest in peace where-ever I lost it at :/


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## Theroc (May 30, 2009)

Yanno, funny thing... I myself have A.D.D. 

It usually results in me being bored with anything someone tells me to do, thusly going off and finding entertainment.


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## Rathan (May 30, 2009)

I also have A.D.D. I find it hard myself with concentration and organization....  I've learned little techniques that have helped over the years but those and a few other little quirks are something I know even with the most training and knowledge won't be solved.. it's just something I'll have to deal with for the rest of my life heh....


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 30, 2009)

the term ADOS came from a different gaming situation. i was starting a WoW character and i thad herbalism whis caused a yellow dot to appear on my mini map if a herb was close. so i 'd be perfectly fine, most of the time, it's only when i saw something shiny... other then that i was fine... the last you see or hear of me was a streak and OH SHINY!... this happened in fights... alot, ask Jemal


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## Jemal (May 31, 2009)

Yeah.. I think this sums it up nicely
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/community/comics/images/ss8.jpg



> It usually results in me being bored with anything someone tells me to do, thusly going off and finding entertainment.



Hmm, that sounds like normal life to me.

No IC update tonight, sorry.   tommorow hopefully.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (May 31, 2009)

make them blood elves and i think that EXACT situation happened... once or twice


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## Jemal (May 31, 2009)

it was spiders, not bears, as I recall.  And ghouls once... Then there was the PVP action you ran out on to pick flowers. *sigh* 

Anyways, enough talkin bout wow in our D&D thread..

I'm gonna be updating my games soon, so keep eyes peeled.


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## Rhun (May 31, 2009)

Jemal said:


> I'm gonna be updating my games soon, so keep eyes peeled.





Eyes are wide open.


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## Andor (Jun 1, 2009)

Hah. It's like GURPs I.O.U. with swords. Any room for one more Jemal? I promise not to start a fight and run away. << ... >>

[It's not Roy's fault. He's 16 and thought he was invulnerable. The truth hurts. ]


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 2, 2009)

Okay with this i am officaly the groups mascot. Any objections?


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## Rhun (Jun 2, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> Okay with this i am officaly the groups mascot. Any objections?




Works for me.


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## renau1g (Jun 2, 2009)

You have to be either cute or the comic relief and I don't think kobolds are particularly cute (especially in my games, they're bloodthirsty, guerrilla fighters....think IRA, but deadlier)


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## Rhun (Jun 2, 2009)

renau1g said:


> You have to be either cute or the comic relief and I don't think kobolds are particularly cute (especially in my games, they're bloodthirsty, guerrilla fighters....think IRA, but deadlier)




Well, Aussir is neutral evil.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 3, 2009)

Ah! So someone beside's me took the time to look through the student profiles. As a side note, while Aussir is not cudly there is nothing saying he's not cute. the evil kind of cute mind you. He'll be happy playing with some pieces of wood and you find out he got them from you chair when you sit down. jsut cause he's got scales and would rip out some ones heart that does not mean he is not cute. i mean look at him, sure he's scaly, winged, fangs, claws, a little blood thirsty... i mean look at the way he acts. he just wants to be every ones friend...


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## Rathan (Jun 3, 2009)

friends till you turn around.. then he shanks you in the calf... he'd go for the back.. but he's too short to reach most peoples backs hehe....


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## Rhun (Jun 3, 2009)

We'll just keep Aussir in front of us.


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## renau1g (Jun 3, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> Ah! So someone beside's me took the time to look through the student profiles. As a side note, while Aussir is not cudly there is nothing saying he's not cute. the evil kind of cute mind you. He'll be happy playing with some pieces of wood and you find out he got them from you chair when you sit down. jsut cause he's got scales and would rip out some ones heart that does not mean he is not cute. i mean look at him, sure he's scaly, winged, fangs, claws, a little blood thirsty... i mean look at the way he acts. he just wants to be every ones friend...




I was waiting for the thrilling reveal of which of us is evil when they stab us in the back. My money was on the knight... ah welll



Rhun said:


> We'll just keep Aussir in front of us.




Preferably at the business end of my arquebus.


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## Rhun (Jun 3, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Preferably at the business end of my arquebus.




And with several of you between him and Amaya.


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## Jemal (Jun 4, 2009)

Andor - We're currently sitting at 7 active players right now.  I'm not sure if/when RPGRamen will be back.  If it looks like he's not coming back I'll let you take his place.  What would your second book be?


Everyone - Has anybody heard from RPGRamen lately?  He's in a couple of my games and hasn't posted in a while.


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## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Everyone - Has anybody heard from RPGRamen lately?  He's in a couple of my games and hasn't posted in a while.




I haven't seen him post anywhere lately, Jemal.


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## renau1g (Jun 5, 2009)

He hasn't been around s@s' game we;re in either.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 5, 2009)

> I was waiting for the thrilling reveal of which of us is evil when they stab us in the back. My money was on the knight... ah welll



 Jamien is an upstuck, holier than thou, nobleborn pup. But he is as Lawful Good as they come


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## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> Jamien is an upstuck, holier than thou, nobleborn pup. But he is as Lawful Good as they come




And apparently he is quite prejudice as well.


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## Andor (Jun 5, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Andor - We're currently sitting at 7 active players right now.  I'm not sure if/when RPGRamen will be back.  If it looks like he's not coming back I'll let you take his place.  What would your second book be?




I don't know that I need one for the forseeable future. Perhaps Draconomicon later on for the Breath Weapon feats?


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 5, 2009)

Andor said:


> I don't know that I need one for the forseeable future. Perhaps Draconomicon later on for the Breath Weapon feats?




... why would you need breath weapon feats....

and for the rest of you aussir wouldn't shank any of you... he doesn't have a knife. also he knows the value of meatshiel...friends, the value of friendship and good will

he's evil not stupid... uneducated and unwise, nor is he insane, maybe a little confused and childish. he wont do evil deeds for the sake of doing evil, good people do things for the sake of good it self, because it's the right thing to do. evil beings do things because its good for them, because its the right thing to do for them selves. you can have an evil being save the world, their just doing it for their sake because they want the world for them self or they would suffer too. so evil could do the same things good does, for different reasons, it's just some times what they do is "ONLY' for "THIER OWN" cause

Edit: well sometimes both, and some do it for evil but still
edit2: and what they are willing to do to meet their goal, ANY of their goals are a little... well they are evil


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## Theroc (Jun 5, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> Jamien is an upstuck, holier than thou, nobleborn pup. But he is as Lawful Good as they come





And Coravin could care less for stereotypes and deception, lol.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 5, 2009)

Uh honestly this situation with Jamien and the Drow seems so artificial  Jemal did you really plan on introducing a Drow NPC prior to us starting the discussion about them? Or did you plop him down just to make the Knight look like an arse


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## Jemal (Jun 5, 2009)

It seemed fitting.  You're in the middle of a public cafeteria in an interdimensional school full of all sorts of different sentients.  There are possibilities for running into pretty much anything.

Besides, it's a media shtick to say something bad about someone and have them be right behind you.


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## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

I think Amaya needs to get some new friends. LOL.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 5, 2009)

Before any one gets the wrong idea, wisdom is Aussir's dump stat. he's not trying to make any points here he is honestly asking these questions. he gets confused about the simplest things and the not so simple as well


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## Andor (Jun 5, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> ... why would you need breath weapon feats....




To make Aussir jealous. Duh.


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## Jemal (Jun 5, 2009)

Flesh - Often the simplest of minds make the most profound statements.


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## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Flesh - Often the simplest of minds make the most profound statements.




Jemal makes a good point. "From the mouths of babes" is the quote that comes to mind.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 5, 2009)

So i take it you added that Drow there because of the TV induced cliche?


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## Rathan (Jun 5, 2009)

No... he's doing what any good DM would do.... he's feeding off player background and history as well as current events in the game to devise plot.... it's an age old method of creating plot and works rather well actually...


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## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

Rathan said:


> No... he's doing what any good DM would do.... he's feeding off player background and history as well as current events in the game to devise plot.... it's an age old method of creating plot and works rather well actually...





Aye. And interjecting a little drama and confrontation into the game is never a bad thing, even if it seems a little "cliche".


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 5, 2009)

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am planing on DMing my own game some day soon, and i'm just asking around. I want to see how other DMs do it - before, i thought we only use our pre-designed NPCs and plan ahead, but this works also i guess.


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## Rathan (Jun 5, 2009)

sometimes a DM needs to throw something in under the terms I like to call 'from the hip' or spontaneously... it adds a certain aspect to the game to keep it interesting and not seem so cookie-cutter in nature.... it allows a DM to tailor the perfect game for their PC's and has the added bonus to keep things interesting


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## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

Rathan said:


> sometimes a DM needs to throw something in under the terms I like to call 'from the hip' or spontaneously... it adds a certain aspect to the game to keep it interesting and not seem so cookie-cutter in nature.... it allows a DM to tailor the perfect game for their PC's and has the added bonus to keep things interesting





Absolutely. Part of being a good DM is to be able to throw in random interesting things like this. I mean, The School must have what? Thousands of students, teachers and workers there? No DM, no matter how good, can have every possible NPC set up before hand. Sometimes you have to create them on the fly.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 5, 2009)

Right... Thousands... a good post secondary school has thousands of students, this is an inter-planer school, with epic characters as random staff, not even techers just staff. do you think a 1st lv commoner could stay here as a janitor? countless material planes send students here, it is a plane to it self, .... Thousands?.... it's like saying there are thousands of people in a country that takes up a continent. a world a... Plane?


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## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

True, but only the best of the best are accepted as students, which would have a limiting effect. As far as total population, I don't know. But staying with the point I was trying to make, it doesn't matter if it is simply dozens...a DM can't create a complex personality, stats and appearance for everyone of them. He has to be able to do that on the fly.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 6, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am planing on DMing my own game some day soon, and i'm just asking around. I want to see how other DMs do it - before, i thought we only use our pre-designed NPCs and plan ahead, but this works also i guess.




there are somethings you can't always plan for and there is a case which you can never plan ahead for, no matter what happens you will be unprepaired, and that is if you let pc's in the game, RIGHT jemal?


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## Jemal (Jun 6, 2009)

Where PC's are concerned, I've found there's generally very little you can accurately plan for.  The big stuff, certainly - the main plot, crucial encounters, major NPCs - you need to know beforehand.  But if you try creating a lot of the little stuff ahead of time you'll often either be dissapointed that all that work goes to waste when the PC's go a different direction, or you'll have to improvise anyways.  So I choose to improvise... a lot.

For example, I probably shouldn't be telling you this but so far only the first post in this thread was planned.  I have many characters to use in the school, but havn't decided how to work all of them in.  I usually do things like that whenever it seems like 'hey now would be a good time to throw X in there', or 'this scene would be much more interesting if..' .  Certain characters are designed to be introduced at certain points, but the majority of them are me making the NPC and then waiting for a time to throw him in.

And with the Drow for example, that was entirely on the fly.  I thought to myself "What would happen if a Drow overheard that? Heh, that'd make things.. interesting" so I did it.


The downside to DMing like this is that sometimes it's difficult to make your randomness seem consistant - though with practice, It can be done.  I once ran an entire campaign based off only the initial session and a vague idea of the final goal, the rest of the campaign was the PC's and I reacting to each other, with me creating NPC's, encounters, and storyline as needed on the fly.  It was a rather fun game.

That's not saying, mind you, that planning isn't useful and often required, b/c it is.  A lot of forward planning can do wonders for your campaign provided your PC's don't derail the train... you just need to be able to deal with the inevitability of what to do when they DO derail the train.


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## Rathan (Jun 6, 2009)

Not to shun anyone.. but if you can't get past the inevitable derail then you have no business being a DM.... it takes different breed of gamer to be a DM... I'm just glad to see a place like EnWorld that has many of them in one please... refreshing actually....


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## Andor (Jun 6, 2009)

I'm making up a character to post in the rogues gallery (If I don't become a PC you're more than welcome to use him as an NPC. ) but I've hit a snag. My Eberron book is in storage after a flood. Can someone tell me how much a trained deinonychus costs as a mount?  Mentioning the cost of tack would be helpful too. Thanks!


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## Rhun (Jun 6, 2009)

Rathan said:


> Not to shun anyone.. but if you can't get past the inevitable derail then you have no business being a DM.... it takes different breed of gamer to be a DM... I'm just glad to see a place like EnWorld that has many of them in one please... refreshing actually....




Yeah, I don't think a lot of players who have never tried DMing understand just how much time and effort it can take to be a DM. I'm definitely more of an "on the fly" type DM; I try to only outline the basics and such ahead of time.


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## Rathan (Jun 6, 2009)

I have put a lot of time into the game I am running currently... including hand drawn maps which I scan and place into my game.. I feet it gives my game a bit more of that 'table top' feel... plus... when I am done with my campaign I can actually use the maps and drawings I made for it in my actual table top gaming circle and let them run through my world... I see my PbP game I DM here a test run through it and I'm hoping I can make it work nicely... overall it's gonna take a lot more work the way I am doing it... but it's worth it to me as I want to make my game the I can possibly make it...


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## Rhun (Jun 6, 2009)

Rathan said:


> I have put a lot of time into the game I am running currently... including hand drawn maps which I scan and place into my game.. I feet it gives my game a bit more of that 'table top' feel... plus... when I am done with my campaign I can actually use the maps and drawings I made for it in my actual table top gaming circle and let them run through my world...




I've seriously considered switching to hand drawn maps in my games, as I can draw them a lot faster than I can make maps in excel/paint/etc. And I've got the ability to scan them easily, so I may really have to try that.


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## Rathan (Jun 6, 2009)

I have a hard time getting my maps the way *I* want them any other way short of hand drawing them... you're exactly right there though.. I can make a hand drawn map much faster than doing it with a program or some such.... I just recently got my fiancee's printer/copier/fax/scanner printer here set up as she's moving here within the year anyways so it's be a godsend when it has come to my maps for my game.... I love it... I make my maps..... scan them... upload them to photobucket... then post the Image links here... that simple...


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## Rhun (Jun 6, 2009)

Rathan said:


> I just recently got my fiancee's printer/copier/fax/scanner printer here set up as she's moving here within the year anyways so it's be a godsend when it has come to my maps for my game.... I love it... I make my maps..... scan them... upload them to photobucket... then post the Image links here... that simple...




Sounds sweet. I've got one of those fancy printer/copier/scanner dealies sitting right next to me too. And I've got a lot of resources at work I could us. Seriously, the hand-drawn map thing could save me tons of time. I'm glad you mentioned it.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 7, 2009)

I like drawing by hand and can make good maps, but putting together something in Illustrator sounds much easier for me. When i do start my own campaign i will use visual aids for sure ​


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## Rhun (Jun 7, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> I like drawing by hand and can make good maps, but putting together something in Illustrator sounds much easier for me. When i do start my own campaign i will use visual aids for sure ​




Unfortunately, I've just got the basics...Excel, Paint, etc. I did download Autorealm the other day. It looks pretty cool, but there are a lot of things I couldn't figure out how to do right off. So I guess I need to spend some time playing with it.


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## Theroc (Jun 8, 2009)

Hm... I may have missed this, but is it possible for Coravin to take 10 on the Spellcraft check?


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## Jemal (Jun 8, 2009)

i usually just make do with either description or Ascii.

As far as taking 10 on spellcraft check.. not for identifying a spell, as that's a reaction.  Taking 10 or 20 is when you are taking your time to do something.


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## Rathan (Jun 8, 2009)

this is cruel Jemal.... taking a poor 15 year old kids 'money' even if he HAD money to begin with..... next you'll be asking for the poor kids faith in boccob as payment  *chuckles* well played my fellow DM.... well played heh


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 8, 2009)

Well he is a rogue and practicing his trade yes? But at the expense of other students, so i wouldn't be surprised if a teacher intervenes. Jemal, was Arin's floating around and eye color change flavor text or did she use magic for these as well?


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## renau1g (Jun 8, 2009)

Andor said:


> I'm making up a character to post in the rogues gallery (If I don't become a PC you're more than welcome to use him as an NPC. ) but I've hit a snag. My Eberron book is in storage after a flood. Can someone tell me how much a trained deinonychus costs as a mount?  Mentioning the cost of tack would be helpful too. Thanks!




I don't know about them, but a carver is 400 gp, clawfoot is 150 gp, fastieth 50gp, glidewing 800gp.

Carver is the equivalent of the deinonychus. No mention of its tack & harness


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## Rhun (Jun 8, 2009)

Wow, dino-mounts. Cool.


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## renau1g (Jun 8, 2009)

Yeah, dino-riding halfling cannibals from the Talenta Plains. Scary stuff.


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## Rhun (Jun 8, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Yeah, dino-riding halfling cannibals from the Talenta Plains. Scary stuff.





Why does that sound familiar? Oh, yeah, WD's character in Kinem's game.


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## Arkhandus (Jun 9, 2009)

I make whatever kind of map is best for the circumstances and game type.....Ascii text-maps on the boards, simple sketching on the OpenRPG map most of the time there, sometimes a more detailed map done in Paint for an OpenRPG session, and hand-drawn maps for face-to-face games.  With my old computer I made some maps for printing out with the map-making utility of the Core Rules 2 CD-Rom for AD&D 2e, but my current computer doesn't have that installed.  I tried Campaign Cartographer 2, which was also on the CD, but that sucked and was too much of a bother to work with, especially with its cruddy documentation.


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## Rhun (Jun 9, 2009)

Maybe I should just start alternating map types based on how much time I have at any given moment. If I throw out a few ASCII maps, that may help speed things up.


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## Andor (Jun 9, 2009)

renau1g said:


> I don't know about them, but a carver is 400 gp, clawfoot is 150 gp, fastieth 50gp, glidewing 800gp.
> 
> Carver is the equivalent of the deinonychus. No mention of its tack & harness




Awesome. Thank you.


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## Jemal (Jun 9, 2009)

er.. there's rules for buying dinosaurs?  *Needs to read eberron more closely*  
And I thought warhorses were the best way to buy yourself a fighter at low level.


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## Jemal (Jun 9, 2009)

OH, also: 



Myth and Legend said:


> Well he is a rogue and practicing his trade yes? But at the expense of other students, so i wouldn't be surprised if a teacher intervenes.




Teachers only intervene if someone breaks the rules.  Scamming, conning, etc aren't agains the rules - only overt violence or offensive magics (Dominations etc).

Technically, Arin is the only person you've seen break the rules:  in the cafeteria when she used a Suggestion spell on the drow, but she was doing it to prevent violence, so the teachers will likely overlook it.



> Jemal, was Arin's floating around and eye color change flavor text or did she use magic for these as well?



You would presume there was some sort of magic involved (Especially with the symbiosis thing involved), but the Suggestion was the only actual Spell cast.


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## Rhun (Jun 9, 2009)

Jemal said:


> er.. there's rules for buying dinosaurs?  *Needs to read eberron more closely*
> And I thought warhorses were the best way to buy yourself a fighter at low level.




Dogs can come in handy too. Not as handy as a dinosaur, I'm sure, but still.


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## renau1g (Jun 9, 2009)

Especially in 2e, dogs were a great buy.


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## Rhun (Jun 9, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Especially in 2e, dogs were a great buy.





I've only played a coupld of PCs that have had dogs, but I've used them against my PCs many times.


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## Andor (Jun 10, 2009)

Ok. Lionel is all drawn up and posted either for use as an NPC or to be my PC if you don't hear from your player.


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## Andor (Jun 10, 2009)

Jemal said:


> er.. there's rules for buying dinosaurs?  *Needs to read eberron more closely*
> And I thought warhorses were the best way to buy yourself a fighter at low level.




Yep. Eberron rocks. It's a really great setting.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 13, 2009)

...'ello?...


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## Theroc (Jun 13, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> ...'ello?...






Hi.


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## Rhun (Jun 13, 2009)

Howdy!


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## Jemal (Jun 14, 2009)

Ahoy!

NOTE: I'm changing one thing about how the arena works (And will be editing the first post of this thread to show it).  It has come to my attention that with thousands of students and only a single arena, fitting everybody in on a single day isn't feasible, so I'm changing it so that student groups are now allowed to enter the arena once a week.  

This also helps me in pacing - I was looking at how much XP a party of 4 could consistently gain using the arena once a day, and even not counting outside sources of XP from other areas of the school, you could be epic in a month!  I wanted to the school to be closer to 10-20 lvls/year than 100.


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## Jemal (Jun 14, 2009)

ALso, Andor - I'll look over your PC sometime tonight and then post what (if any) changes need to be made before he can be introduced.


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## Rhun (Jun 14, 2009)

Jemal said:


> This also helps me in pacing - I was looking at how much XP a party of 4 could consistently gain using the arena once a day, and even not counting outside sources of XP from other areas of the school, you could be epic in a month!  I wanted to the school to be closer to 10-20 lvls/year than 100.




Good catch, Jemal. This is actually a problem I have with standard ongoing campaigns too. If PCs can fight their way through 3 or 4 encounters in a day, they can level far too fast for my liking.


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## Jemal (Jun 14, 2009)

I was under the impression that Terrance was going with Keizaan to the cafeteria, so I updated as such.  If you're not going with Keizaan, post where you're heading.  Also, why would you think the red-skinned man followed you?


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 15, 2009)

Rathan i don't want to get on your bad side, and i know Terrance is a good kid and all, but have you noticed just how many times you described his speech as "uttered softly" "asked softly" "uttered quietly" and so forth.. He is either going to creep one out with the way he talks, or seem wrong in the head. "WHY YOU ALWAYS WHISPERING AAARGGGHH!"  Too bad we don't have a Barbarian in the party


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

Maybe he is just a bit soft spoken.


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## Rathan (Jun 15, 2009)

actually it's more of a force of habbit than anything.... I just don't transition well from spoken peices to descriptive ones... it's something I need work on.. my rp skills are a bit rusty as it is....


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

Rathan said:


> my rp skills are a bit rusty as it is....




Scour the rust from those skills! You'll get there soon enough.


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## Rathan (Jun 15, 2009)

screw scouring.... I'll use coca-cola.. that'll take rust off anything LOL


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

Rathan said:


> screw scouring.... I'll use coca-cola.. that'll take rust off anything LOL




True enough! Sounds more tasty too, though I am admittedly a Pepsi man!


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## Rathan (Jun 15, 2009)

Rhun said:
			
		

> True enough! Sounds more tasty too, though I am admittedly a Pepsi man!




I'd have to concur... I am much more of a pepsi man myself...


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 15, 2009)

... oh i'm sorry, i didn't know you all where still on formula, i just take my real caffinated drinks over here...


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> ... oh i'm sorry, i didn't know you all where still on formula, i just take my real caffinated drinks over here...




Irish Coffee?


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## renau1g (Jun 15, 2009)

Just pure espresso or turkish coffee


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Just pure espresso or turkish coffee




Hey, I like those too.


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## Andor (Jun 15, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Just pure espresso or turkish coffee




Turkish coffee. Once again raising the question of why people in hot dry climates like small, hot, sticky drinks, while people in cool, wet climates enjoy large cool drinks like beer.


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2009)

Andor said:


> Turkish coffee. Once again raising the question of why people in hot dry climates like small, hot, sticky drinks, while people in cool, wet climates enjoy large cool drinks like beer.





LOL. Well put. Though for what it is worth, I live in a climate with hot, dry summers and cold, (somewhat wet winters. Must be why I like coffee AND beer.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 16, 2009)

i was refuring to the stuff that comes in cans with the warning that you should't drink more then 2 a day, or was it two flats....? i can't really remember, and coffee? i just eat the beans my self


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## Andor (Jun 16, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> i was refuring to the stuff that comes in cans with the warning that you should't drink more then 2 a day, or was it two flats....? i can't really remember, and coffee? i just eat the beans my self




I miss Jolt Cola. That stuff rocked. ;_; Stupid heart attack taking it off the market. 

And coffee beans are awesome when covered in chocolate. ^^


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> i was refuring to the stuff that comes in cans with the warning that you should't drink more then 2 a day, or was it two flats....? i can't really remember, and coffee? i just eat the beans my self





I like Monster Java. Nothing like coffee mixed with energy drink. LOL.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 16, 2009)

1. jolt cola is not really all that cafinated
2. when was this the last few days? i thought i saw it the other day, i know it was in stores a month ago at least. or is it just your country/area?
3. i'm talking about just coffee beans, like from the bag or grounds when i can't get the beans


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## Andor (Jun 16, 2009)

I haven't seen the stuff in years. Maybe somebody is ressurecting it? I remember their old logo "Jolt Cola. All of the sugar and twice the caffine!" 

Perhaps not a lot by modern energy drink standards, but it was great stuff when I was in high school. During the pleistocene.


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## Jemal (Jun 16, 2009)

I know there's an energy drink called "jolt" that i keep seeing.  Not sure if it's the same thing as 'jolt cola', but it's all over the place around here.


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2009)

I remember Jolt Cola too. They took it off the market here in Utah years and years ago, though. Not sure if it is still available elsewhere, but I would imagine it is.


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## renau1g (Jun 16, 2009)

Jemal said:


> I know there's an energy drink called "jolt" that i keep seeing.  Not sure if it's the same thing as 'jolt cola', but it's all over the place around here.




It might be the same makers, but it's not the same. 



Rhun said:


> I remember Jolt Cola too. They took it off the market here in Utah years and years ago, though. Not sure if it is still available elsewhere, but I would imagine it is.




Jolt Cola is still available, I actually bought one a few months ago on a lark, after remembering fondly how great it was. It turns out nostalgia is not very accurate. It's a very poor quality cola... I'd rather just drink two Cokes or even *shudder* Pepsi's over one Jolt Cola.


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2009)

renau1g said:


> I'd rather just drink two Cokes or even *shudder* Pepsi's over one Jolt Cola.




Blashpemy! Pepsi is far superior to Coke!


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## renau1g (Jun 16, 2009)

Not by my reckoning...

Note: Canadian versions of pops sodas are significantly different from their US counterparts. I used to work for a large food manufacturer and at our plant we made US and Canadian formulations of the same product. The compositions of those products were amazingly different. You Yanks like the stuff really sweet, whereas us Canucks prefer a more salty/bitter taste. (in the aggregate)


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## Rathan (Jun 16, 2009)

actually the main difference in Canadian soda pop and American is the difference between high fructose corn syrup and cane sugar.... Canadians use cane sugar whereas Americans use nasty high fructose corn syrup...


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## Andor (Jun 16, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Blashpemy! Pepsi is far superior to Coke!




As an engine degreaser you mean? I agree. Although did you know that some people think Pepsi is actually meant for human consumption?


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 16, 2009)

*pokes head in*

It has been foung to be a great cleaner of concrete too. I use to work in a pepsi were house where the occasional spill happened. after washing off the spilt soda the cement was whine as bone.

coke is just as bad. I prefer my caffeen in the form of fresh roasted beans or as turkish coffee. Unfortunately, I am out of turkish coffe right now.

*ducks back out*


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2009)

Actually, I'm a diet soda drinker anyway...so the cane sugar vrs high fructos corn syrup really doesn't mean anything to me. Thought I do prefer Splenda to Neutrasweet.


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 16, 2009)

Nuetrasweet is a poison. when mixed with stomach acid, it breaks down to fermaldahyde which is a carcinagen.

a very hidden fact in the food market.


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2009)

Scott DeWar said:


> Nuetrasweet is a poison. when mixed with stomach acid, it breaks down to fermaldahyde which is a carcinagen.
> 
> a very hidden fact in the food market.





Yep, I've heard that about a million times. Although it seems there is no actual proof that it actually works that way either. I've done a bunch of research on it.


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## Rathan (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm diabetic mysely Rhun so I know what you mean by diet soda man myself.... my favorite so far is diet Mtn. Dew to be honest... you drink it long enough and it tastes like normal mtn dew.. till you have a sip of regular mtn dew then you get a sugar rush LOL.... regular sodas are TOO sweet for me now a days..... my second fave I hate to admit though it coke zero though... then diet pepsi....


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2009)

Rathan said:


> I'm diabetic mysely Rhun so I know what you mean by diet soda man myself....




My dad is a diabetic, so I shy away from sugar somewhat. I know it can be hereditary, and I certainly want to do all I can to prevent it if possible.



Rathan said:


> my favorite so far is diet Mtn. Dew to be honest... you drink it long enough and it tastes like normal mtn dew.




Agreed. Diet Mountain Dew is great. Same for Diet Dr. Pepper. Those are my two favorite diet sodas by far.



Rathan said:


> regular sodas are TOO sweet for me now a days..... my second fave I hate to admit though it coke zero though... then diet pepsi....




Coke Zero is pretty good, but you need to compare it to Pepsi One instead of Diet Pepsi. Closer comparison. And I agree, once you get used to drinking diet soda, regualr soda is too sweet.


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## Andor (Jun 16, 2009)

I've kinda gotten addicted to Diet Coke with Lime. The lime flavor pretty much covers the nasty taste of aspartame.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 16, 2009)

> Nuetrasweet is a poison. when mixed with stomach acid, it breaks down to fermaldahyde which is a carcinagen.
> 
> a very hidden fact in the food market.



scary...

I prefer Coke much more than Pepsi, the thing is too sweet for my likeness.  The Coke in the USA/UK/Cyprus is sweeter than the one in Europe too. In the states especially it is too sweet - i have lived for 6 months on the Cape so i know


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 16, 2009)

...
...
... 
...'ello... 
...'ELLO...odd? i could have swarn there was a Rp forum around here some wheere...


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## Rathan (Jun 16, 2009)

*kicks flesh in the crotch and hands him a diet mtn. dew...* "SURPRISE! YOU FOUND IT!... Here have a diet soda!" 

*chuckles*


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## Rhun (Jun 17, 2009)

Rathan said:


> *kicks flesh in the crotch and hands him a diet mtn. dew...* "SURPRISE! YOU FOUND IT!... Here have a diet soda!"
> 
> *chuckles*




Hee hee!

Hey Flesh, just consider this the OOC banter that happens during tabletop games when there is a lull in the RP action. That's what OOC is for, right?


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## Rathan (Jun 17, 2009)

sadly this is how alot of the table top games I play in go around at home.... sidetrack city LOL


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## Andor (Jun 17, 2009)

Where are we and why am I holding these funny dice?


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## Rhun (Jun 17, 2009)

Andor said:


> Where are we and why am I holding these funny dice?




Put the funny looking dice down and back away slowly, and nobody gets hurts.


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## Andor (Jun 17, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Put the funny looking dice down and back away slowly, and nobody gets hurts.




But they're all sparkly and colorful. And they give me this strange sense of power. *rollrollroll*


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## renau1g (Jun 17, 2009)

No,no, you're confusing the power they give with the DM, they give him the power 

"oh... lookit, I rolled a 5...*nudge*, make that a 15" (insert evil DM laugh)


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## Rhun (Jun 17, 2009)

renau1g said:


> No,no, you're confusing the power they give with the DM, they give him the power
> 
> "oh... lookit, I rolled a 5...*nudge*, make that a 15" (insert evil DM laugh)




Now I know what your secret is, renau1g!


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 17, 2009)

*sulks* hey DMs don't do things like that... Do they?


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## Rhun (Jun 17, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> *sulks* hey DMs don't do things like that... Do they?




Umm...some DMs do.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 18, 2009)

but on the other hand some dms do go the other way, " and he rolls max damage on his coup de grace..._knee hits table_...oh look they didn't stop rolling you take 10 damage..."
It all depends on the situation, are the hero's having unimaginable luck-good or bad- would it be better for the game that this happens? this is why a loot of dmn's hide their rools, that and the fact taht if the players can guess at their stats then the game devolves to a numbers crunching session.


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## Jemal (Jun 18, 2009)

I try not to 'bump' the dice unless I think letting them sit will be bad for the campaign as a whole.  IE "Um... so the badguy kills you all on the first turn by rolling 20 crits... oops."

I believe that if a PC dies, it should have some meaning to it, not just a random fluke in a random encounter.

The primary reason I hide NPC/badguy dice rolls for the first few turns is, as flesh said, so that the PC's don't know the badguys stats and do the number-crunching "if i do this i have a 57% chance of success, whereas if I do THIS i have a 59% chance of success.. but if you flank him and then i power attack...".

I've had RL games that devolved into hours of math instead of gaming.   Granted a little math and working strategically is a good thing, but.. I've seen the far end of that road, and it's not very fun.


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## Rhun (Jun 18, 2009)

Jemal said:


> The primary reason I hide NPC/badguy dice rolls for the first few turns is, as flesh said, so that the PC's don't know the badguys stats and do the number-crunching "if i do this i have a 57% chance of success, whereas if I do THIS i have a 59% chance of success.. but if you flank him and then i power attack...".




I generally hide my NPC rolls as well. It is too easy to do a little basic math and figure out things like Attack Bonus and such.


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## Andor (Jun 18, 2009)

Hey Jemal, Any chance you could vet my character proposal?  I see a good way to work him into the current conversation at the arena, but it's going to pass soon.


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## Rhun (Jun 18, 2009)

Andor said:


> Hey Jemal, Any chance you could vet my character proposal?  I see a good way to work him into the current conversation at the arena, but it's going to pass soon.




Woot! The more the merrier. So I hear. 


So I take it when in the Arena, we will have to break into two teams of PCs?


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## Jemal (Jun 18, 2009)

> So I take it when in the Arena, we will have to break into two teams of PCs?




At least.  The 'teams' are up to you.  You can go solo or in teams of *up to* five members, each week that you sign up you would have to decide who you're signing up with.

Andor - Sorry, been a bit busy lately.  Will try to look over it soon.  
I have glanced over it, and after checking the stats, I AM going to have to ask you to pick a mount that isn't the equivalent of an extra party member.  That 'carver' is an example of a likely challenge you guys would face in the arena, so having one in addition to the entire party is a bit unbalanced.


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## Rhun (Jun 18, 2009)

Jemal said:


> At least.  The 'teams' are up to you.  You can go solo or in teams of *up to* five members, each week that you sign up you would have to decide who you're signing up with.





Okay, good deal. Just seems it would be easier on the DM if we go in groups.


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## Andor (Jun 18, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Andor - Sorry, been a bit busy lately.  Will try to look over it soon.
> I have glanced over it, and after checking the stats, I AM going to have to ask you to pick a mount that isn't the equivalent of an extra party member.  That 'carver' is an example of a likely challenge you guys would face in the arena, so having one in addition to the entire party is a bit unbalanced.




No problem, he'll have just left it behind then. Probably out of concern for how to feed a thousand pound carnivore at school. I forgot to give him a lance anyway. I'll edit it out.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 18, 2009)

The school would feed it for you but that's not the main issue. And regarding dice and math.. I'm so bad at math there's no chance i'll be bothered figuring percentages out of some rolls  But yes i can see now that in the name of fun and avoiding absurd TPK it's worth it. The DM is sort of like the overdeity isn't he


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## Theroc (Jun 18, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> The school would feed it for you but that's not the main issue. And regarding dice and math.. I'm so bad at math there's no chance i'll be bothered figuring percentages out of some rolls  But yes i can see now that in the name of fun and avoiding absurd TPK it's worth it. The DM is sort of like the overdeity isn't he




Yep.  DM is the realms Unnamed, unknown Overlord.  UNless of course, the DM somehow integrates himself into the game world...

But yeah, DM's job is to promote everyone having fun(usually without making things too easy) regardless of whether it follows every rule all the time.  (Sometimes waving a roll or 'forgetting' a rule may make for more fun for everyone, sometimes not.)


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## Andor (Jun 19, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> The school would feed it for you but that's not the main issue.




Sure, I know that and you know that but does Lionel know that? The point being I don't want to just switch it out to a horse, it wouldn't match the background I constructed.


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## Arkhandus (Jun 19, 2009)

My DMing habits in that regard are similar to Jemal's.  I fudge only to prevent an undeserved TPK (total party kill), to prevent a seriously pathetic (and not in a funny way) PC death.  If we can laugh about what happened, I don't fudge it, but a seriously anti-fun and nondramatic PC death has occasionally goaded me to fudge in their favor, leaving the PC near-dead or fudging an enemy's critical hit confirmation roll into a failure.

If not for that, PCs' bad luck and poor planning in some sessions would have given me a TPK tally of 3-4 TPKs by now.  I've never fudged a PC death that was dramatic/heroic, and never fudge when the PC(s) got himself/herself/themselves killed with their own mistakes.

Just this weekend, I almost got a TPK.  But the sorceress fled as things went downhill, and the fighter managed to escape because I fudged an enemy monk's lethal flurry against the dragon shaman into a nonlethal flurry, with the monk dragging the dragon shaman inside afterward, at which time the fighter got up from playing dead and ran off (the dragon shaman's aura barely raised the fighter from -2 to 1 HP before the DS got beaten down).  Next week is the fighter's and sorceress' rescue attempt, with the aid of NPCs.  Had I not fudged the monk's attack into nonlethal damage, he would have already finished off or dragged the seemingly-unconscious fighter inside, cutting off his escape.

With my minor bit of DM's Fiat, I allowed 3 PCs to survive instead of just 1 (and she only got away because the monk was busy beating down the dragon shaman), although 1 of those needs to be rescued first.  The PCs could have won the encounter, but seriously screwed up in their planning and execution of the assault.


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## Andor (Jun 19, 2009)

Arkhandus said:


> Just this weekend, I almost got a TPK.  But the sorceress fled as things went downhill, and the fighter managed to escape because I fudged an enemy monk's lethal flurry against the dragon shaman into a nonlethal flurry, with the monk dragging the dragon shaman inside afterward, at which time the fighter got up from playing dead and ran off (the dragon shaman's aura barely raised the fighter from -2 to 1 HP before the DS got beaten down).  Next week is the fighter's and sorceress' rescue attempt, with the aid of NPCs.  Had I not fudged the monk's attack into nonlethal damage, he would have already finished off or dragged the seemingly-unconscious fighter inside, cutting off his escape.




A flurry? Against a dragon shaman? Did he not have his energy aura up? Lots of small attacks against a dragon shaman are a good way to kill yourself.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 19, 2009)

i think i finally figured out what i'm going to do with aussir besides have him think he's a baby white dragon, i'm going to turn him in to a metal humming bird!
 going to take most of his feats thou... and a bit of cash... dragon wings, reinforced wings, improved wings, improved flight, that item from dragonomicron that improves flight maneuverability. when he gets reinforced wings he's going to be looking to upgrade to breast plate then mithral full plate when he can afford it. giving him ac 27 before magic and perfect fly speed. goina cost a lot thou... with dragon breath gives him one more feat which i'm thinking fly by attack

i forgot the 24 str... before magic i'll be able to fly carreing 349 pounds and yes thats including the 3/4 carreing capacity of small critters but not any magic or inherent str enhancments
it's not a very powerful build but it should be fun as hell.

just hit me i still have no clue as to the classes i want to take...


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## Rhun (Jun 19, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> i think i finally figured out what i'm going to do with aussir besides have him think he's a baby white dragon, i'm going to turn him in to a metal humming bird!




That's an interest concept for him.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 19, 2009)

*steps in* uh-oh, since i don't want to spam 6 or so threads with my personal stuff, i want to let my co-players and DMs know i will be away until Monday.  Thanks


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## GlassEye (Jun 19, 2009)

Any ideas for the initial arena groups?  Right now the six of us present have two fighters and Jamien has suggested himself, Aussir, and 'the Wizard' which could be Coravin or Amaya (but I suspect he means Amaya).  This puts both front-line fighter types in the same group.  Not a problem if Keizaan and Terrance catch up or Andor's character gets introduced but otherwise would leave a wizard, the artificer, and a bard/druid in the other group.


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## Rhun (Jun 19, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> *steps in* uh-oh, since i don't want to spam 6 or so threads with my personal stuff, i want to let my co-players and DMs know i will be away until Monday.  Thanks




Generally you can just post a single AFK thread in Talking the Talk informing everyone that you are away. Some people won't see it, but a few will, and they can spread the word.  I always try to point out that most games won't notice a 2-3 day absence anyway.

With that said, hope you are doing something fun!


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## Rhun (Jun 19, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Any ideas for the initial arena groups?  Right now the six of us present have two fighters and Jamien has suggested himself, Aussir, and 'the Wizard' which could be Coravin or Amaya (but I suspect he means Amaya).  This puts both front-line fighter types in the same group.  Not a problem if Keizaan and Terrance catch up or Andor's character gets introduced but otherwise would leave a wizard, the artificer, and a bard/druid in the other group.




Definitely should have a front-line fighter and arcane caster in each group. Do we only have a single cleric?


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## Theroc (Jun 19, 2009)

As far as I know, we've 2 Frontliners; Jamien and Aussir, one midliner; Keizaan, and everyone else isn't supposed to be getting directly attacked.  Though, I've no clue what Andor is playing(haven't looked myself), so that might change things a bit.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 19, 2009)

truth be told i'm not sure if aussir could take nettle, i've got more ac but nettle has more hp all fighter types here have ac 19 but i have the least hp of the fighters (12), Hey jemal!(happy sickly sweet voice) for my classes i was wondering if you could make me a specialist fighter class, a fighter really, but with access to different bonus feats? because reall i got no clue what i want to take after 2nd and 4th lv koblod fighter fIghter seems like the only choice for me out of the sources i got? but i really don't see what fighter feats he wants besides mayby power attack. or maybe dragon hit dice? ya some dragon hit dice!


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## GlassEye (Jun 19, 2009)

Terrance is the only cleric; Cal has a very minor amount of healing ability (1 CLW atm).  Andor's pc, Lionel, is a knight/dragon shaman and should be a good front-line fighter.


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## Andor (Jun 19, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Terrance is the only cleric; Cal has a very minor amount of healing ability (1 CLW atm).  Andor's pc, Lionel, is a knight/dragon shaman and should be a good front-line fighter.




That's how he's built. I had a PC similar in build before and he was both very effective and an absolute blast to play.  

Although speaking of custom options I have a request about the "Always a class skill" knowlege skill.  I picked Knowledge Nobility because it matched his background, but I wonder if it could change now that he is at school and has new options opening up to him? It'll eat up all his skill points for a couple of levels to catch up to the 'always maxed' rule, but that's ok. I think his focus would be on other prime material planes, I'm not sure if that would be knowledge: the Planes, or Local.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 19, 2009)

Aussir want knowledge eat face!


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## Rhun (Jun 19, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> Aussir want knowledge eat face!





Yeah, that eat face stuff is a little off-putting. I think Amaya will choose Jamien's group.


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## Theroc (Jun 20, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Yeah, that eat face stuff is a little off-putting. I think Amaya will choose Jamien's group.




Coravin will probably point out that Amaya agreed to be Aussir's friend.  

Honestly, it probably won't make a huge difference to Coravin who he's grouped with, as long as he isn't the one on the front line.


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## Rhun (Jun 20, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Coravin will probably point out that Amaya agreed to be Aussir's friend.




That was prior to him wanting to eat people's faces.


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## Theroc (Jun 20, 2009)

Rhun said:


> That was prior to him wanting to eat people's faces.




He hasn't yet said that line in a language Amaya or Coravin understand.


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## Rhun (Jun 20, 2009)

Theroc said:


> He hasn't yet said that line in a language Amaya or Coravin understand.





No, but he did post it here OOC...which I think may be worse! lol


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## Theroc (Jun 20, 2009)

Rhun said:


> No, but he did post it here OOC...which I think may be worse! lol




Maybe, lol


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## Rhun (Jun 20, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Maybe, lol





Krazy Kobolds!


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## Jemal (Jun 22, 2009)

The entire party is now together in the Arena.

Andor, if you wish to write yourself in at this point, feel free.  I'm going to say that Lionel was in an earlier group that came in the day before, but didn't get along too well with his 'tour group' and so is out wandering by himself.   He knows as much about the school as the current party does, including whatever info you can remember from the OOC thread. 

As far as knowledge skill goes - You can pick any knowledge skill you want, but I'd prefer no switching right off the bat.  If your character's focus/outlook changes later on, then that would be ok, but not within the first few months.  Also there are many ways of learning things that are outside of the normal rules, if you attend the right classes you might just learn those skills anyways.


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## GlassEye (Jun 22, 2009)

Welcome, Andor!  Glad you could join us.


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## Andor (Jun 23, 2009)

GlassEye said:


> Welcome, Andor!  Glad you could join us.




Thank you. I'll try not to crush as many toes as Terrence.  Stupid dumpstat dex.


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## Rhun (Jun 23, 2009)

Crushed toes are such a minor nuissance.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh, an Evil Knight.. This will be fun  I got so disappointed when i read some posts on the WOTC boards, on how underpowered and useless the Knight and Dragon Shaman classes are, and how better even plain vanilla Clerics were due to their overpowered spells. Well i think we will be having fun, so what do they know


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## GlassEye (Jun 23, 2009)

Andor said:


> Thank you. I'll try not to crush as many toes as Terrence.  Stupid dumpstat dex.




Could be worse.  You could have made str your dumpstat.


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## renau1g (Jun 23, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> Oh, an Evil Knight.. This will be fun  I got so disappointed when i read some posts on the WOTC boards, on how underpowered and useless the Knight and Dragon Shaman classes are, and how better even plain vanilla Clerics were due to their overpowered spells. Well i think we will be having fun, so what do they know




Every class is underpowered compared to the cleric (using the cheesey DMM), but this game isn't about being the strongest, fastest, DPR-king (for most people). It's an RP game, if you want to beat the game, head over to the XBOX or whatever. D&D has always been (for me) about playing interesting heroes who are going on adventures and having fun, not about outshining my allies or being the king of the damage by cheese-fests.

Sorry for my rant, I just really dislike how people dismiss classes as useless unless they can hit for 20,960 DPR at level 30 when they're twinked out using this that and the other, a one-man army who doesn't like to play with others, kind of defeats the whole party-basis of D&D.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 23, 2009)

You are right! I'm still new to DnD so I read a lot, hence my confusion (at first) and doubting my character. I re-read it though - it's a d12 class that uses heavy armour without penalties and has battlefield control. Seems pretty good to me! Plus i always wanted to RP a character like that - a young, cocky, holier than thou noble


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## Rhun (Jun 23, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Every class is underpowered compared to the cleric (using the cheesey DMM),




The cleric HAS to be a strong class to make up for the fact that they get pigeon-holed as the party's healer. And personally, I see nothing wrong with Divine Metamagic. Any player that builds their character to take advantage of that is going to be forced to use all their feats for extra turn undead attempts.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 24, 2009)

I as well say that this game is for the Role playing and not the combat... that being said there are classes that have great flavor but are so mechanicly screwed buy the designers that you you are unable to do the job that it was disned for as well as some one who takes a dip in a simmilar class and then returns to their own doing better at their job AND your's at the same time, classes like knight and dragon shaman, now they are okay to play when every one else is playing flavor classes and the dm drops the campains CR

i would love to play them but you take a couple levels here and a few there and wow you do the same things but better and can do other things besides just as well, mind you i may be biased, i blame my RL gaming group. i meet them after i moved to my new town, i played D&D twice before, i compare it to learning to stand in the paddle pool then being thrown into the ocean and surviving.

in conclusion it is much more fun to roleplay, and there is a difference between twinking and pulling your own weight

and i problely just made some enimies, i'm a little bitter about not being able to play fun things because they are just not effective, inside OR out side combat and don't get me started on racial hit dice and Level adjustment


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## Andor (Jun 24, 2009)

To be fair I do think the Dragon Shaman benefits mightily from a dip into a fighting class. And certainly one is no replacement for a cleric, but then nothing is. They beat both bards and marshals all hollow however.  The auras are _very_ cool as you shall see soon enough. As a support class they are hard to beat, and with that dip they make pretty good front liners as well.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 24, 2009)

i don't know about the marshal but they do not beat a bard. people just don't know how to play them proprly. and yes the auras are INTRESTING, it just that for a major feature of the class they don't do all that much the fast heal is nice but it's only up to half hp. for every thing else you can take a few classes else where and get them and what ever else that class gives, mind you i'm playing devils advacit really, i wouldn't mind playing the class if those i knew couldn't make the same character with half the levels


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## Rhun (Jun 24, 2009)

If you are good at character optimization, you can make even a weak class strong. I've seen some crazy builds in my day.


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## Theroc (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm still bloody eager to try my melee Warlock build in Leif's game... granted it relies on the DM ruling Hideous Blow doesn't provoke AoO's... because I can't afford to get smacked around everytime I attack.

I'm also eager to see how Coravin fares (and learning to manage my spell usage).

Mind, I've very little D&D experience myself, and as Rhun can attest, I have a tendency to agonize over numbercrunching and optimizing out of a paranoid fear of being unable to pull my weight.

I enjoy roleplaying, but if I'm totally useless, I know I won't have any fun as I'll be disappointed that I can't be of help.

Anyways, I am kinda a 1/2 and 1/2 player.  I enjoy the roleplaying, but I also enjoy being effective and useful(while I know at least ONE person off Enworld who actually wildly enjoys playing a character who routinely gets his arse handed to him during encounters[His character manages to live, but not win]) That would frustrate me.

~cuts himself off during ramble.~

Anyways, carry on...


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 24, 2009)

if no one has noticed i am having so much fun playing Aussir.


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## GlassEye (Jun 24, 2009)

But...kobold is such a sub-optimal race!  How is that possible?!


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 24, 2009)

the fact that i'm going to have a strength score in the high 30's maybe low 40's


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## renau1g (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm not saying a PC shouldn't be able to pull his own weight, but just should play the PC they want. I really, really don't think there are any PC classes out there that suck so hard they shouldn't be played. Now that being said certain classes are much better as a 5th PC when the four main roles are covered (Tank, SKill, Arcane, Divine), read Bard, Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Duskblade, etc... as they aren't strong enough in a certain facet to truly cover it off as well as the specialist.


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## GlassEye (Jun 24, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> the fact that i'm going to have a strength score in the high 30's maybe low 40's




Hey, you can't fool us.  We all know it's really because you get to prance around and extol the virtues of rat.

I _am_ curious to know how you are going to manage the str thing if you'd care to give a brief on your character plan.


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## GlassEye (Jun 24, 2009)

renau1g said:


> I'm not saying a PC shouldn't be able to pull his own weight, but just should play the PC they want. I really, really don't think there are any PC classes out there that suck so hard they shouldn't be played. Now that being said certain classes are much better as a 5th PC when the four main roles are covered (Tank, SKill, Arcane, Divine), read Bard, Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Duskblade, etc... as they aren't strong enough in a certain facet to truly cover it off as well as the specialist.




I'd agree with that.  My problem with Cal is that he is unfocused when it comes to role.  I kinda dread the next level when I have to make a more directed decision.  I enjoy playing the character, though.


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## Rhun (Jun 24, 2009)

Theroc said:


> I'm still bloody eager to try my melee Warlock build in Leif's game... granted it relies on the DM ruling Hideous Blow doesn't provoke AoO's... because I can't afford to get smacked around everytime I attack.




A fun build to be sure, but not truly optimized, even with the favorable ruling on Hideous Blow.



Theroc said:


> Mind, I've very little D&D experience myself, and as Rhun can attest, I have a tendency to agonize over numbercrunching and optimizing out of a paranoid fear of being unable to pull my weight.




He speaks the truth. It is agonizingly painful to watch Theroc over-analyze EVERY detail of his character. LOL  



Theroc said:


> (while I know at least ONE person off Enworld who actually wildly enjoys playing a character who routinely gets his arse handed to him during encounters[His character manages to live, but not win]) That would frustrate me.




I had a player for a while who played a rogue and would continuously pick fights with the largest, strongest tanks he could find. He'd always get his ass handed to him, and he had a great time playing the PC. And his antics were fun for everyone else at the table. So, each to their own, I guess.



renau1g said:


> I'm not saying a PC shouldn't be able to pull his own weight, but just should play the PC they want. I really, really don't think there are any PC classes out there that suck so hard they shouldn't be played. Now that being said certain classes are much better as a 5th PC when the four main roles are covered (Tank, SKill, Arcane, Divine), read Bard, Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Duskblade, etc... as they aren't strong enough in a certain facet to truly cover it off as well as the specialist.




Again, all dependent on the build and the level of the party. I have found that (at least at lower levels), a duskblade is every bit as good in combat as a fighter. Perhaps even better in some circumstances. I haven't tried playing one at higher levels yet.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 24, 2009)

Strange i always though epic level bards with +one bajilliion to Bluff and Diplomacy could do some pretty broken things..


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## Andor (Jun 24, 2009)

renau1g said:


> I'm not saying a PC shouldn't be able to pull his own weight, but just should play the PC they want. I really, really don't think there are any PC classes out there that suck so hard they shouldn't be played. Now that being said certain classes are much better as a 5th PC when the four main roles are covered (Tank, SKill, Arcane, Divine), read Bard, Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Duskblade, etc... as they aren't strong enough in a certain facet to truly cover it off as well as the specialist.




Actually that dip into a fighterish class for heavy armour and martial weapons allows Dragon Shamans to tank just fine.  And without slowing down their support role.


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## Rhun (Jun 24, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> Strange i always though epic level bards with +one bajilliion to Bluff and Diplomacy could do some pretty broken things..




I can't say I've ever played an epic bard.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 24, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> Strange i always though epic level bards with +one bajilliion to Bluff and Diplomacy could do some pretty broken things..




_Shake, shiver, shiver, shake, shake, flesh floats down in to the floor_ it's not thier bluff or diplomacy, it's their perfom check, the one that causes an army to sit the slag down. stay away from epic bards in the hands of one who knows them.


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## Jemal (Jun 25, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> _Shake, shiver, shiver, shake, shake, flesh floats down in to the floor_ it's not thier bluff or diplomacy, it's their perfom check, the one that causes an army to sit the slag down. stay away from epic bards in the hands of one who knows them.




He speaks from experience, and I second the motion.

People say 'anything's good if optimized right', and that's true - but very little beats an optimized bard who can tell the epic big bad vampiric demon prince and his entire balor army to "SIT THE *BLEEP* DOWN!".



> A fun build to be sure, but not truly optimized, even with the favorable ruling on Hideous Blow.



  It's the same concept as a greatsword rogue (such as Ishalleatyourflesh's character in my epic game).  "I'm a greatsword fighter who gives up an insignificant portion of my attack bonus to add significant damage potential as well as numerous neat little tricks.


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## Rhun (Jun 25, 2009)

Jemal said:


> People say 'anything's good if optimized right', and that's true - but very little beats an optimized bard who can tell the epic big bad vampiric demon prince and his entire balor army to "SIT THE *BLEEP* DOWN!".




Hmmm...why does the song "Devil went down to Georgia" suddenly just come to mind. Was Johnny an Epic bard?


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## GlassEye (Jun 26, 2009)

How is the arena/combat going to work for those not battling?  Can we still post rp stuff?


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## Jemal (Jun 26, 2009)

Of course!  You can feel free to do whatever you want while others are in the arena.  Talk to people, go have lunch, sleep, watch, attend a class, whatever.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jun 30, 2009)

where did every one go? we're about to start combat? more or less


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## Rathan (Jun 30, 2009)

I ish here hehe


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## Theroc (Jun 30, 2009)

I believe we're waiting for Jemal to get well...


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## Jemal (Jun 30, 2009)

Aye, i'm not feeling up to starting up a combat ATM, but will get back on it asap.

btw, flesh
[sblock=ishalleatyourflesh]
You never answer your phone.  call me (Preferably afternoon/evening), we have things to discuss.
[/sblock]


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 30, 2009)

He is sick? I hope he gets well soon! Health is the most important thing!


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## Theroc (Jun 30, 2009)

Myth and Legend said:


> He is sick? I hope he gets well soon! Health is the most important thing!




Yeah, he's been having bad headaches.  He made a post somewhere in Talking the talk, but I believe it's been buried since the other day.


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## Rhun (Jul 2, 2009)

I'm back. Sorry for the delays...been a long week.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jul 3, 2009)

Rhun does Amaya follow the first group or the second, cause she's in the first battle....


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## Andor (Jul 14, 2009)

Still alive Jemal?


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## Theroc (Jul 14, 2009)

Andor said:


> Still alive Jemal?




I certainly hope so!


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## Andor (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm going away for a few weeks. I expect I will have irregular internet access, so in the event that the game continues I will try to keep up but may take a day or 2. ^^;

Go kick butt in the arena peoples!


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## Rhun (Jul 15, 2009)

You should be okay Andor. When Jemal comes back, I imagine it wil take several days to get things back on track and progressing.


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## Jemal (Jul 17, 2009)

"Speak of the devil..."

And he shall send me. 


Apologies for the abruptness of my absence, as has been stated, I was having head problems and though they're still around, they're not as... incapacitating as they were.

Andor, sorry to hear about the timing.. I come back just as you're gone for a week or two, but as Rhun said it'll probably take me a little while to get things back on track anyways.


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## Rhun (Jul 17, 2009)

Jemal said:


> "Speak of the devil..."
> 
> And he shall send me.




Or, as I always say: Speak of the devil, and the devil appears.


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## ishalleatyourflesh (Jul 20, 2009)

" 'ello? 'ELLLLLOOOOOO? ... Aussir lonely..."


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## Rhun (Jul 21, 2009)

ishalleatyourflesh said:


> " 'ello? 'ELLLLLOOOOOO? ... Aussir lonely..."




Hard to post with the site all jacked up.


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## GlassEye (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm going to be traveling over the next month.  Jemal, if you come back and pick up the game during that time I still want to be involved but I likely won't be posting until I return around the 25th of August.


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## renau1g (Jul 22, 2009)

Good luck and safe travels!


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## Rhun (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm out 07/23 thru 07/28...though I will have internet access, so it shouldn't affect me too badly.


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## Jemal (Jul 23, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Hard to post with the site all jacked up.




too true, i couldn't log on for 2 or 3 days, got busy for a few...  back now though.

I'll most likely be starting my games back up on my next days off (Next thursday/friday), I'm going to get used to posting in the games I'm playing again, and make sure I have all the info for my DMing before I start back up full time.   please bear with me.


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## GlassEye (Jul 23, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Good luck and safe travels!




Thanks!


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## Rhun (Jul 24, 2009)

Jemal said:


> please bear with me.




Consider it done.


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## Andor (Aug 8, 2009)

Back from travelling. Game on?


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## Theroc (Aug 8, 2009)

Andor said:


> Back from travelling. Game on?





Hopefully sometime soon.

How's Jemal been doing?  Last I heard he was playing catch up... like a month ago.


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## Rhun (Aug 10, 2009)

He posted just a bit over two weeks ago stating he would be getting caught up. If his life is anything like my life, I understand completely why it takes a while to get things going again.


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## Theroc (Aug 10, 2009)

Rhun said:


> He posted just a bit over two weeks ago stating he would be getting caught up. If his life is anything like my life, I understand completely why it takes a while to get things going again.




Hm... my life must be either busier or less busy than I thought.

Feels like two weeks was a month... Hm... that can't be good... lol


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## Rhun (Aug 10, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Hm... my life must be either busier or less busy than I thought.
> 
> Feels like two weeks was a month... Hm... that can't be good... lol





That's what happens when you spend so much time with your girlfriend!


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## Theroc (Aug 10, 2009)

Rhun said:


> That's what happens when you spend so much time with your girlfriend!




lol, I guess.  Though she works so much, I spend more time sitting around her house alone than I do with her... but it's the best way to get some time with her atm, so it's worth it, lol.


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## Rhun (Aug 10, 2009)

Theroc said:


> ... but it's the best way to get some time with her *atm*, so it's worth it, lol.




You're spending time with her Automatic Teller Machine? You go Theroc! Take that girls money when she isn't around. LOL


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## Theroc (Aug 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> You're spending time with her Automatic Teller Machine? You go Theroc! Take that girls money when she isn't around. LOL




rofl, nice way to twist the abbreviation, hadn't though of that, lol.


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## Rhun (Aug 11, 2009)

Theroc said:


> rofl, nice way to twist the abbreviation, hadn't though of that, lol.





Its what I do.


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## Andor (Aug 16, 2009)

CLEAR! 

*Ka-Thump!*

 Live, Damn you, Live!


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## renau1g (Aug 16, 2009)

*Damnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a miracle worker*

Now if we only had a level 7 cleric to cast _Raise Dead_


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## Theroc (Aug 16, 2009)

Last I heard, Jemal's having computer issues... so he can't really come around atm.

Unless I'm mistaken, that is.


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## renau1g (Aug 16, 2009)

That's true, crazymonkey posted it here.


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## Rhun (Aug 16, 2009)

He'll make it back eventually, I would guess. He has disappeared from time to time in the past, and always made it back.


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