# Help test the new dice roller



## Morrus (Sep 12, 2010)

This is gonna get installed here for PbB games. We've been designing it over the last week or so.

http://vb.eitkocat.com/index.php

You roll a dice by attaching it to an existing post. Simply make a post, and then click on the "ADD DICE ROLL" button on the post (it appears after you have submitted the post, when EDIT etc. appear).

At launch it will only have basic dice formats (xDy + z), but other weird and wacky things will be added in time.


Some features: 

Once rolled, a dice roll cannot be deleted or edited
Grahical representation of your dice roll
A profile tab which records all of your dice rolls
It's designed to be secure - the idea is you can't cheat. You make the roll, it attaches to your post, and you can't change or remove it. You can add more rolls, but you can't remove the existing rolls. 


Anyway, give it a whirl. You'll need an account at that test board. Lemme know of any glaring problems.

Like I said, other dice formats will be added later (dice pools, fate dice, stuff like that).


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Well, it's a basic roller. No glaring errors so far but I have a list of suggestions to add if you want them at some point. Some might be really tricky to code, I don't know, but certainly features that some games could use.


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## Walking Dad (Sep 13, 2010)

I don't know if I like the graphic representation. If you have to roll six dice pools (4e: minor: How much extra used from healing ability?, standard: attack and damage... on hit another hit and damage roll, free: saving throw) the posts get really cluttered with colored dice graphics.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Blackrat said:


> Well, it's a basic roller. No glaring errors so far but I have a list of suggestions to add if you want them at some point. Some might be really tricky to code, I don't know, but certainly features that some games could use.




We definitely need the list. 

We're launching with the basic functionality, and we'll be adding extra stuff at a later date.

One request, though - I'm pretty much just a D&D player. So if you want alternative dice mechanics, you'll need to explain them very clearly - chances are I won't know how they work. 


My initial thoughts are to add checkboxes which apply the following functions to the dice rolled:

*ADD* the dice together [default setting]
*DISCARD* the lowest dice and add the rest together
*REROLL* any dice which rolls X or lower
*EXPLODE* dice which roll X or higher
*COUNT* the number of dice which score X or higher
The user inputs the value of X, of course. Then the display output showing the results notes which functions you've selected. 

If you have any more, feel free to let me know! (As you mention on the test board, there's no d100 yet - that's because I couldn't decide how to graphically represent it. 2d10, I guess.)


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Morrus said:


> We definitely need the list.
> 
> *DISCARD* the lowest dice and add the rest together
> *COUNT* the number of dice which score X or higher
> ...




These two were my first thoughts to add. Except for the first it would be good to have the option to also discard two lowest and add the rest together. For those who like to "roll 5d6 take 3 highest" for character creation.

The count command would be exactly what you need for VtM game.

Well, a d100 looks much like a ball  So how about just using a circle as graphical representation.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Blackrat said:


> Well, a d100 looks much like a ball  So how about just using a circle as graphical representation.




Because I then have to make 100 images... and the d20 was painful enough!


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Ah... Well then you're not going to like my d1000 idea 

*whistles away*

In another note. Just let me know what the dimensions the image needs, what's the format and what color would be the best and I can make those. I have some free time on my hands at work and it's not that much of a hassle.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Same size as the existing dice (they're all about 37 x 37).

The format has to be a PNG file with transparency. Colour? Well, we have red, green, blue, yellow, orange, purple. Ummm.... dunno. I suppose if we're talking a rainbow, we have all but one colour covered (is that d20 indigo or violet?)

The files will need to be named d100_1.png, d100_2.png, d100_3.png.... etc..... d100_99.png, d100_100.png.


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Ok, I'll see what I can come up with. I'll try to put in shading so it looks rounded.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Cool.  If you just do one, we can see how it looks (better that than do all 100 and find there's a problem!)


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Yeah. I was thinking the same. I'll start with grey since the rainbow has beel all used up  If you feel some other color would be better, I can then do a new one, but this will give the first impression.


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Well, here's a quick example.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

I see nothing!


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Sorry, I just went modifying it  I hope it shows now


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

I think the colour works.

The edges look a tad blocky; and is that transparent?


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

No that ain't transparent yet as I did that with MS Paint  I think once I have my hands on a real program I can smooth the edges a bit (although I can already that all it needs is removal of few pixels..) and then make it transparent png.


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Yeah, it was 8 pixels that made it look blocky. Here's improved one.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Looks good to me!


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Good, I'll set up on mass producing them then.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Good luck!  After about the 8th one you'll be thinking "_Why_ am I doing this?"


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Whipped up a quick page with it in place to see how it looks:

dicetest


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## IronWolf (Sep 13, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> I don't know if I like the graphic representation. If you have to roll six dice pools (4e: minor: How much extra used from healing ability?, standard: attack and damage... on hit another hit and damage roll, free: saving throw) the posts get really cluttered with colored dice graphics.




That was my initial reaction as well.  The graphical representation certainly steals focus of the post when really the post itself should be the focus.  I suspect most games will hide the rolls behind a spoiler tag though, so that could help.  I would pretty much be happy with just seeing 1d20+4=21 though.


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## Blackrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Ok, here's #1 in transparent png to show the finished product. I got to 30 already but now my day is done. Have to continue tomorrow, but now that I'm on good go, I don't think it'll take more than couple of hours to finish.

Once I'm done should I zip them up and upload that as it will take some time to upload them individually?


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

Yup, a zip sounds ideal. Thanks!


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

IronWolf said:


> That was my initial reaction as well. The graphical representation certainly steals focus of the post when really the post itself should be the focus. I suspect most games will hide the rolls behind a spoiler tag though, so that could help. I would pretty much be happy with just seeing 1d20+4=21 though.




They'll be below the posts, not in the middle of them.

But we'll add some options later for a "streamlined" view which each user can select via his settings.


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## IronWolf (Sep 13, 2010)

Morrus said:


> They'll be below the posts, not in the middle of them.
> 
> But we'll add some options later for a "streamlined" view which each user can select via his settings.




Very cool!  It will be nice to have a dice roller available on these forums.


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## renau1g (Sep 13, 2010)

One suggestion. Be able to roll the dice as you're writing the post, I could only get it to add *after* I made the post and it said "add dice rolls". It can make it hard to describe your PC's actions without having a general idea of the roll.

Alos, a minimum roll would be cool, i.e. on a brutal weapon, min roll = 2 or something.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

renau1g said:


> One suggestion. Be able to roll the dice as you're writing the post, I could only get it to add *after* I made the post and it said "add dice rolls".




That's not possible without keeping it secure. If the post does not already exist, there's nothing to attach it to - and the attaching it is the secure part; how does the system know which post it's supposed to be attached to, and what stops you simply changing your mind? There'd be no way to know if people didn't try 100 times till they got the roll they wanted simply by closing their browser after the die roll but before they submitted the post and starting the post again.

You can still edit your post after the die rolls are attached (you just can't edit the attached die rolls themselves). So you can describe your PCs actions that way.


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## renau1g (Sep 13, 2010)

Good point, the security is more important. I will likely just post the actions in an sblock and then edit to include the descriptive text. 

Thanks


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## HolyMan (Sep 13, 2010)

Posting to subscribe and see if I see this new option.

EDIT: I don't see the dice roller am I missing something (like a brain LOL).

HM


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## IronWolf (Sep 13, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> EDIT: I don't see the dice roller am I missing something (like a brain LOL).




It isn't installed here just yet.  You can use these test forums to actually test the roller:

http://vb.eitkocat.com/index.php


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## Merkuri (Sep 13, 2010)

Feature idea for the dice roller:  Allow people to add the dice roll into their post between BBCode tags, like [ROLL]1d20+5[/ROLL].

When you're just previewing the post nothing would happen (it would just show the raw text) but once you've actually posted it would add a die roll to the post just as if you had clicked the "add roll" button after the fact.  The [ROLL][/ROLL] tags would be stripped out of the post, and if the user edited the post and added them back in it would add an additional roll to the post.

So, for example, someone could make this post:



> I attack with my longsword: [ROLL]1d20+5[/ROLL]




And the completed post would show up like this, with the 1d20+5 roll attached:



> I attack with my longsword: 1d20+5




Then if the user wanted they could edit the post and add a damage roll, for example: 



> I attack with my longsword: 1d20+5
> I hit for [ROLL]1d6+5[/ROLL] damage




And the final edited post would look like:


> I attack with my longsword: 1d20+5
> I hit for 1d6+5 damage




with the original 1d20+5 roll and an additional 1d6+5 roll attached.

This might be a good compromise for the people that want to be able to create the post and the roll at the same time.  I don't know if it's possible or feasible, but I thought I'd at least mention it.


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## Morrus (Sep 13, 2010)

A bb code, unfortunately, is only text. Which means it can edited. It's actually very easy to add a bb code die roller but there is zero security possible with one. There's no possible way to allow someone to edit their post and not be able to edit the b codes (or their output). 

The only way to make sure it's secure is to keep it as a separate attachment to the post.


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## surfarcher (Sep 14, 2010)

What?!? No d30?!?

Seriously, tho.  Looks like a great start.


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## LightPhoenix (Sep 14, 2010)

I think for something like the Brutal 1 property, it might be easier to ignore the re-roll aspect and just make the random number from 2 to X.  I don't know how it would be indicated fairly though.  A numerical input could easily be faked (sure, I got 7 9's... what, Brutal 9, no way!).  Perhaps it could be indicated in the result box that it was Brutal 1 or whatever.

After some testing, another suggestion: you may want to limit input in the text boxes to numbers only (or scrub to remove text).  Also, if there is a text error, instead of going to the Database Error screen, you could throw up a custom error page.


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## Blackrat (Sep 14, 2010)

Okay, here's your d100 Morrus


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## Walking Dad (Sep 14, 2010)

IronWolf said:


> ...  I suspect most games will hide the rolls behind a spoiler tag though, so that could help... .




I wouldn't as it is attached under the post. You cannot put it behind a spoiler tag. Will the dice shown on the same background as the rest of the forum (default = black)? Or will they have a white background with colored dice to a white on black text?


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## Morrus (Sep 14, 2010)

Blackrat said:


> Okay, here's your d100 Morrus




Thanks! I'll get this added ASAP.


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## IronWolf (Sep 14, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> I wouldn't as it is attached under the post. You cannot put it behind a spoiler tag.




Oh, you're right!   

Hopefully they get the streamlined user settings put in quickly for just a simple text representation of the dice and rolls.  Then the folks that like the whizbang graphics can see them and those of us that prefer a subdued browsing experience can disable them.


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## HolyMan (Sep 15, 2010)

Ok I like having a dice roller right to hand.

But I really don't like the look it gives posts. When I run a game I like the posts to flow like a story as much as possible. But that big block with colored dice doesn't really work for me. And I'm sure there are a few others too.

Could you set up the dice roller to automatically hide itself? I know we can't put sblocks around it, but is there a way to have it do it automatically? So all I see at the bottom of my post is

[sblock=Rolls]
Dice Roll
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




+5
1d20 + 5*
longsword vs orc* 
25​
Dice Roll
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




+3
1d8 + 3*
damage* 
4​[/sblock]

*And not -*


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## ryryguy (Sep 15, 2010)

This is cool, thanks for the PbP love Morrus!

I second the request for an "auto-sblock" option just to keep things tidy if you're making lots of rolls.

Also, I think I don't like the result of the roll floating all the way over on the right away from the dice and description.  I tend to focus on the left hand stuff and have to consciously look over to find the result.  I think I'd rather have "= X" immediately following the die image?  Or maybe preceding it - better in cases where you have a long string of dice images, perhaps?  (Not a big deal - I'm sure I'd get used to the way it is now.)

Maybe a way to edit in references to die rolls in the BBCode text?  I understand that the rolls themselves have to be a separate thing, but how about a [ROLL]1[ROLL] that would be automatically replaced by a hyperlink down to the first roll attached to the post (assuming they can be anchors), with the "1d20+4=21" bit as the link text?  Basically make the text tag an automatic reference rather than creating the roll itself.

It seems like this would still be secure.  A potential downside would be a cheater mixing up the order of his roll references.  i.e., Roll #1 was a miss with the big power, but roll #2 was a hit with a little power.  Someone trying to pull a fast one could put "Big Power: [ROLL]2[/ROLL] - yes! a hit!!"  This would still be detectable by someone looking down at the actual roll and seeing the description text saying "little power" there, but that could be overlooked.  How about if the description text were also part of the hyperlink?

One thing this sort of scheme would be good for, would be to cover the fairly common case of someone forgetting a particular modifier when they make the roll.  Typically when this happens you'll change the hyperlink text out to invisible castle/coco to include the modifier, then put a note next to it saying "I forgot the +2 for combat advantage on the roll but added it here."  Or sometimes leave the hyperlink text alone and just have the note.  

Anyway, with the rolls the way they are now, you'd need a note like "Ooops, forgot the +2 for combat advantage on the second d20 roll at the bottom."  It'd be a bit better to be able to put "Ooops, forgot the +2 for CA on [ROLL]2[ROLL]".

Again, thanks for the effort on this!


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## IronWolf (Sep 15, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> But I really don't like the look it gives posts. When I run a game I like the posts to flow like a story as much as possible. But that big block with colored dice doesn't really work for me. And I'm sure there are a few others too.
> 
> Could you set up the dice roller to automatically hide itself? I know we can't put sblocks around it, but is there a way to have it do it automatically? So all I see at the bottom of my post is
> 
> ...





I mentioned being able to make the rolls more subtle earlier in this thread as well.  Morrus said there was possibly going to be a user settings options to display the dice rolls more subtly.

The automatic method you suggested could work well also, possibly even better than the subtle method I suggested where just the graphics were removed.  Sort of like that idea!


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