# [OT] Morrus new holiday logo here--->



## MEG Hal (Dec 4, 2002)

I requested it, Tsyr made it!







So what ya think?


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## mroberon1972 (Dec 4, 2002)

*Cool!*

I couldn't make something like that without a 3D package to render it...  I take it you painted it by 'digital' hand?


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## Buttercup (Dec 4, 2002)

That's pretty darn spiffy!


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## Morrus (Dec 4, 2002)

Umm.. colour me stupid/uncultured/ignorant or whatever... but what is it?


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## der_kluge (Dec 4, 2002)

A Santa Claus hat, and a Dreidel for the "D" (for Hannukah(sp))


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## Henry (Dec 4, 2002)

If we keep this up, we're gonna add a Tree for Yule and a Crescent  for Ramadan.


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## MEG Hal (Dec 5, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Umm.. colour me stupid/uncultured/ignorant or whatever... but what is it? *




It is a dreidel for us Jews at ENWorld


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## William Ronald (Dec 5, 2002)

THG_Hal,  

I LIKE it!  Dreidels make great d4s, by the way.

If anyone wants to work more holidays into the logo, great!  (My gaming group currently has Christians, agnostics, a Wiccan, and a Moslem besides a Jewish player (myself). We are about as diverse a lot as our characters.)

(By the way, does anyone but me remember the Polyhedron adventure set in Gamma World where players encountered a robotic Santa?  I am showing my age here.)


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## RangerWickett (Dec 5, 2002)

Well, the thing is, a Santa hat is a _relatively_ religious-neutral symbol for the holiday season.  Santa gives presents on a Christian holiday, true, but he's not an integral part of Christianity.  He's more of a spirit of giving that transcends religion.

If you add in a dreidel, you'll need to add lots of other stuff too to be fair.  I think it should stay as is.  Or maybe go to the gif file of falling snowflakes, without the santa hat, if that would please more people.


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## John Crichton (Dec 5, 2002)

I thought the Santa hat represented the holiday season rather than a specific religious group.  But that's just me.

I do dig the dreidel-ized logo, btw.  

EDIT:  *RangerWickett* beat me to the punch.    Well said.


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## Chun-tzu (Dec 5, 2002)

Santa Claus does not represent the holidays, he represents Christmas, which has explicitly Christian roots (although it's heavily commercialized now and celebrated by many non-Christians) that run counter to Jewish beliefs.

Personally, I like the revised logo because it's a little more diverse; there's both a Christmas symbol and a Chanukah symbol. And this is a very diverse community.

But if you added the dreidel, would other people complain about adding other symbols? Maybe a few, but I'm kind of doubtful. When you start throwing in every holiday symbol you can find, it gets cluttered, inelegant, and unattractive. Any possible further changes should be judged on their own merits, on a case by case basis.

Is it unfair to include Judaism but not other faiths? In my opinion, no, because you can't include all other faiths. But the difference to me is like this: you've got your TV shows with ALL white people, you've got shows with one or two persons of color, and you've got shows with very culturally diverse casts. As an Asian American, I don't look at a show like Angel and say, "hey, there's an African American, why aren't there any Asian Americans?", I say, "cool, there are people of different races working together" (and it's not one of those shows where literally everyone you see in every single episode are white).

So, that's my take on things. I like both logos fine, and if it were put to vote (and I realize it's NOT up for vote), I'd go with the alt.logo, but I have no complaints with the current one.


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## Alzrius (Dec 5, 2002)

As a Jew, I was tickled to see the image with the dreidel for the letter "D." But as a member of the global community (just love how trite that sounds, even if its true), I have reservations that it might make some people upset, especially given recent events. I'm not saying take it down, Im just saying make sure you're fully prepared for anything. As for the Santa hat ::shrugs:: I personally don't see it as invoking religion. Yes it denotes Christmas, which is a Christian holiday, but to me the modern Christmas is pretty much divorced from its religious roots (and again, this is just my personal opinion, so please, no one take offense and post counter-points. I know a lot of people still go to Christmas mass), so it doesn't offend me in the slightest.

Of course, since the logo at the top of the messageboards has the hat but no dreidel, by now this post is probably moot anyway...


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## Dr Midnight (Dec 5, 2002)

I'm in favor of the new dreidel-filled logo. It's not just a little less Holidays=Christmas, but the design sense is really good. It's pleasing to look at.

Of course, this is coming from a US citizen- here, with very little exception, it's either one or the other.


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## 2WS-Steve (Dec 5, 2002)

I always thought that Santa represented the one true and universal religion, consumerism


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## MEG Hal (Dec 5, 2002)

For the record, I did not ask for this "new logo" to start a logo debate...I saw Santa this year and thought it would be fun for a dreidel. 
The logo does not need to be changed or put back to normal, but to be fair RW--Santa is a Christian icon that represents X-Mas gift giving, so let us not decide that Santa is "universally acceptable" and all else is not.  And if putting a dreidel in the logo would even make one person upset here is my opinion:
1) You are a sad person who does not understand global community.
2) What makes Santa Ok, and a dreidel not, that is ignorant.
3)&^%* you, get over it it is a not a big deal.

If it offends people then obviously do not do it, but I do laugh that Santa is not an offensive symbol while a dreidel may cause disharmony in our community, honestly do what you want to do, no biggie I thought it looked cool.

I did not have this made to have any person or group upset over or start a multi-national fight, I came up with the request, Tsyr made it and I thought it looked cool.

I am not offended by the Santa hat, so you all should not be offended by hat and a d4 at the end.  If I removed Santa hat and kept dreidel that is the time to get upset....but it I did and made the W into a Menorah...oh Tsyr


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## Tsyr (Dec 5, 2002)

*holds up his hands*

Nuh-uh!

I enjoy making logos. Not stoking the flames!  

I'll add in whatever anyone asks for, but not if it's gonna cause yet more contention. That was never my goal in making the thing.

For what it's worth, I like the Santa hat. It's cute. Someone was talking about a dreidel (Why do I always see "drider" when I type that?) on the logo, I thought that sounded fun, so I made it. I think the resulting logo also looks nice. 

*sigh*

Come on people... It's the holiday season. This isn't the type of thing to fight over. Use the new logo or don't, it's out of my hands, but for the love of whatever you do cherish, don't make my work into a martyr or a bone of contention. I made it in the spirit of fun, and the festive nature of the holiday season. 

*shrug*

Well... I've said my peace.


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## MEG Hal (Dec 5, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> **holds up his hands*
> 
> Nuh-uh!
> 
> ...





Right on brother....
Now to make the world in the ENWorld logo an Eye from MEG that would look sweet!


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## Henry (Dec 5, 2002)

Or better yet, put a santa hat (OR a dreidel) in the pupil of the eye, so you can see it between blinks...


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## MEG Hal (Dec 5, 2002)

Please keep santa hat as is, my goal was to have fun with it not take the holiday spirit out of this community.


Thanks


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## mythago (Dec 5, 2002)

Disclaimer: no flaming intended and I realize that everyone had the best intentions here.


I thought it was cute, but honestly (and I'm Jewish) leave off the dreidel. Hanukkah isn't, from the POV of Jews, a big holiday--it would be kinda like having a special ENWorld logo for All Saint's Day. And Hanukkah is over by this weekend.

I do appreciate that there was a nod made to other religions, honest! But IMO it's a misguided (though, again, sincere and well-meant) nod.  If Morrus celebrates Christmas, he can darn well put up a logo with a Santa hat should he choose.



> Come on people... It's the holiday season.




It's the Christmas (and, to a lesser extent, New Year's) season, not the Hanukkah or Ramadan season. (Hanukkah is, again, a minor holiday that's over well before Christmas this year, and Ramadan can just as easily be in summer as in winter, depending on the year.)

Again, I'm not saying nuke the logo--I don't have a problem with the Santa hat, but IMO the dreidel is unnecessary.


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## Morrus (Dec 5, 2002)

OK, I'm _so_ not getting involved in this train wreck of a discussion.  I'll leave the logo as it is - as far as I'm concerned it's just a cute addition and has no religious implications, at least as far as I'm concerned.  As we all know, religion is a big no-no on these boards, for obvious reasons.


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## Piratecat (Dec 5, 2002)

Mythago, you're on the west coast! You're up WAY too early.

I'll boing this over to the META forum!


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## seasong (Dec 5, 2002)

Speaking as an animist with absolutely zero religious representation anywhere, I'd just like to say that I don't care what the logo looks like. As with Google, the holidays given a nod by the front logo are random and arbitrary, and there isn't really anything wrong with that.

If anything, it should represent the tastes of the person running the show - that's part of what makes him a person, instead of a committee, and it's why we have Eric's Grandma instead of Rating Guidelines. As long as he's doing a good job, what's the beef?

As for the rest, I think the Xmas holiday should be represented by a cartoon retail employee & a black ribbon, myself .


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## mythago (Dec 5, 2002)

> You're up WAY too early.




Tell me about it...


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## garyh (Dec 5, 2002)

EDIT:  Zapping this post so as not to start up another debate.  I replied before reading the whole thread.


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## garyh (Dec 5, 2002)

EDIT:  Zap again!!


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