# Gaming Terrain, Tiles, and Battlemats



## Perram (Aug 24, 2009)

Having just come back from GenCon (my first time attending) I've since been inspired by the various options I have available for... lets face it... toys at the game table.  But I've had a hard time deciding what I should use.

Currently I use a good old fashioned Battlemat and Wet-Erase markers.    While there is very little 'Wow' factor to the battle-mats, it provides me with the most freedom, obviously.

I also have several Flip-Mats that I use, and enjoy.  I supplement them with Campaign Cartogropher 3 maps that I make myself and print on 1" scale.  Using these are nice, but its often hard to find one that matches some of my more unique locations.  Making maps in CC3 is something I'm getting better at, but I've not mastered it yet.

I have a complete collection of Dungeon Tiles from Wizards of the Coast, as well.  At least 1 of each set, most 2.  I like the product, but I have a hard time organizing it or using it during play.

While I was at GenCon I picked up some of the products from Fat Dragon Games.  I've built a few of their EZ-Dungeon pieces, and this certainly has the 'Wow' factor to it!  I like that it integrates well with all of my above options, and that I can customize it as much as I want.  It is taking me a long time to construct though... and in the end it doesn't look quite as good as...

Dwarven Forge.  The Cadalac of gaming supplies, I would wager.  This stuff looks amazing... but comes with an amazing price tag.  It isn't out of my reach, however, but I'm worried that it would be hard to customize it or create custom items that worked well with it.  My other big worry is that I travel to most of the games I run... and it might be a tad hard to transport regularly.

Anyone have any insights or opinions?


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## Hjorimir (Aug 24, 2009)

There are a ton of neat toys for terrain, but it is all a pain to store (and keep organized). I'm more of a Tact-Tiles and Counters (I make my own) kind of guy myself, but I will make some terrain counters from time-to-time (altars and such) to spice things up.


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## Xyxox (Aug 24, 2009)

I use Hirst Arts molds to pour bricks and build my dungeons. I use other wargames terrain as well.

The value add is, I'm a wargamer and modeler, too.


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## Jeff Wilder (Aug 24, 2009)

Lemme see, I have:

* Several battemats, including the primary one that is about 84" by 36".

This is what we use 90 percent of the time at the game table.

* Every Flip-Mat yet published.

I love these for any kind of play while traveling, and also for the scenes while not traveling. It's best to take care not to overuse the locations, or players will begin to joke about it.

* Two copies of every set of Dungeon Tiles yet published.

I rarely to never use these.  They are an organizational nightmare, and the tool to build maps in advance is clunky and buggy and no longer officially supported, as far as I know.

* Easel pads.

I really, really like these for large set-piece encounters, and for generic locations like "in the middle of the woods."  In the latter case, I try to laminate the pages after drawing them out in colored marker.  Whether I do that for the former cases depends on what I think re-use utility will be.

* A couple of sets of GameMastery tiles (Campsites and Caravans).

These are good, but extremely circumstantial.  They have some of the same problems at the Dungeon Tiles, with the addition that they aren't as modular.  (I.e., each set really works best if you build exactly as intended.)

* Several sets of MasterMaze.

I only use these for climactic encounters.  The visual impact is amazing.  Setup and storage is horrible.


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## Lhorgrim (Aug 24, 2009)

I am a big fan of the Fat Dragon E-Z Dungeons.

I don't have a regular group right now, so when I get in the mood for a D&D fix I just head to the basement and start putting together some cardstock magic!

The big drawback is portability.  The few times I've tried to take stuff to an "away" game, I've damaged at least one of my walls or arches.

The only other drawback I've had from 3-D terrain is when there are a larger number of players at the table, the walls make it hard to see/move miniatures during a combat.


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## darjr (Aug 24, 2009)

So there I was. Setting up Savage Worlds in a Metamorphosis Alpha setting. Showing new players how to play SW and setting up the first combat while they were at lunch.

I was at the game shoppe and decided to ditch the battle mat and just use the green and blue felt, and the warhammer terrain and the templates and the tape measure.

It looked awesome. Nobody had issues using a tape measure to figure out movement and distance. I should have taken pictures, but I'd just finished when they walked in and the wow was cool.

I need to sit down and figure that out for D&D4e.


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## Thanee (Aug 24, 2009)

darjr said:


> I need to sit down and figure that out for D&D4e.




Using a tape measure to replace the grid should be easy enough, really.

Squares translate to inches.
Movement is free in any direction up to your movement value.
Ranges are measured in the obvious way.
Melee 1 means within 1"; 2 within 2"; etc.
Bursts become circular (measured from the center of the miniature).
For Blasts you should probably make cone-shaped (90°) templates, that can be placed with the tip on the edge of the mini's base in any way you like.

Bye
Thanee


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## darjr (Aug 25, 2009)

well yes, it is simple, initially. but I'd want to see about corner cases and maybe try it in an example game or one shot first before I did it in an ongoing campaign.

Not a lot of work, I agree, but I'd probably like to formalize it and pdf it.

So yea, thanks, I agree, that is the most of it.


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## Zaukrie (Aug 25, 2009)

Fat Dragon GAmes stuff is great. There are a lot of free 3D buildings on line also (check the Heroscape fansite for links from their custom terrain section).

I carve stuff out of rigid foam insulation. Making the curvy walls couldn't be easier for caverns. Buy the stuff 1.5-2 inches thick. Take a regular screwdriver, and drive it through to the other end, over and over. Remove the lose stuff. Spray paint with grey aqua paint. Super easy cavern walls. You can then place them over grid paper or whatever. I'll have pictures on the Heroscape site or Hordelings at some point (to go with the nearly completed Helm's deep my son and I have been building).

It's pretty easy to make brick walls too. For the bricks, just draw them in with a pencil, and that creates the gaps between the bricks. You can get better results with running crumpled up aluminum foil over the painted walls and then dry brushing.

Lots of pictures of this kine of stuff on line.

Pain the rear to store.

I use maps from the DDM line, supplemented with 3D terrain (my kids have lots of treasure chests and stuff from lego sets).


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## frankthedm (Aug 25, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> Remove the lose stuff. Spray paint with grey aqua paint.



many types of Spray paint eat styrofoam. Not all, but it is common.


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## Zaukrie (Aug 25, 2009)

Hence the use of the word "aqua". That is water based spray paint, that does not eat styrofoam.

Also, worldworksgames has great stuff for 3D, and skeletonkeygames for 2D.


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## SlyFlourish (Aug 25, 2009)

I'm a huge Dwarven Forge fan but the price is really high and you need a lot of sets to really enjoy it. Once you start you can't go back, though, and your collection will grow and grow.

I'd probably recommend sticking to wet-erase and dungeon tiles.

For dungeon tiles, get 11" by 18" black posterboard and use blue sticky tack to pre-build your rooms to use at the table. It works much better than assembling them on the spot.


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## Thasmodious (Aug 25, 2009)

I'm ordering some Gaming Paper to keep on hand to draw out both specific sites that will be used over and over (like interiors of the PCs spaceship in my Savage Worlds Firefly game) and to draw several generic locations (dense wood, city street, etc.) to keep on hand for quick encounters.  

My groups comfortable with battlemats and as I'm the only one who really ever spends any money on the hobby, I don't want to get into Dwarven Forge, at least not yet.  The Fat Dragon stuff looks awesome though, have to check that out.


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## pogre (Aug 25, 2009)

If you cannot permanently store Dwarven Forge near your gaming area I have to recommend against it. 

I have around 50 sets and enjoy it very much, but I also have two huge dressers filled to the brim with the stuff. The drawers are easily accessible and easy to use in a gaming session.

I also own a ton of Hirst Arts molds. I use them to fill in the special rooms and structures for my adventures.

If I had to transport my terrain I would go with Hirst Arts, but not make any walls. Bruce has a great selection of floor pieces. You can mount them on stiff floor tiles and stack them up in a box to carry. 

Painted, the floor tiles look great and probably would be more satisfying than your wet-erase battle mat. If you go this route - spend the little bit extra to use Dental plaster instead of PoP. Excalibur or Die Keen Green really stands up much, much better to continued use.


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## Vicente (Aug 25, 2009)

I use paper terrain from WorldWorks Games. Their terrain quality (texturing, details,...) is awesome and it's not too hard to build. And they are preparing a really big release with TerrainLinx that has features that sound totally awesome. I really want to see what they have on their sleeve, it's really ambitious.


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## Obryn (Aug 25, 2009)

While it lacks a wow factor, I rely on my easel pads for 90%+ of my encounters nowadays.  I'm running the 4e adventure series, and some of those set pieces are very intricate.  I can also be a little more artistic on the easel pads, since I do them ahead of time and I don't need to keep the session moving.

-O


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## Gilladian (Aug 25, 2009)

I use mostly wet-erase on battlemats, but I like to make my own polymer clay props. You can see some of them here. I especially like the archery platform tree.

Duh, the link would help: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gilladian/sets/72157601082049021/


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## Varianor Abroad (Aug 25, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> Hence the use of the word "aqua". That is water based spray paint, that does not eat styrofoam.




Actually, I make almost all my own terrain. I've found that even the water-based paints will eat (really "dissolve") styrofoam. If you want to make your own, and you don't want to go the Hirst Arts/Dwarven Forge way, then it's possible to make good-looking terrain with insulation foam, artist's gesso (for primery), some Xacto's and hot wire cutters, and your imagination. Plaster and foamcore are also useful for certain things. 

As noted in the thread, consider your storage capacity. That's the big one!


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## jcayer (Aug 25, 2009)

We spent our first year using a gridded whiteboard.  But it felt...uninspired.  The rooms really didn't have any flavor.
I tried several products including Campaign Cartographer and the Dungeon Tiles.  
In the end, I've settled on Dundjinni.  I can draw stuff up relatively easily and add some nice detail(tables, cages, pits, etc).  This is the stuff that my players really enjoy as they can then use it in combat, or interact with it.  It really draws them in more and lets us all "see" the same thing.
Yes, it is a bit more work, but not much, and so far, totally worth it.


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## Riley (Aug 25, 2009)

Vicente said:


> I use paper terrain from WorldWorks Games. Their terrain quality (texturing, details,...) is awesome and it's not too hard to build.




I'm a big fan of this company's stuff.  I'm most excited about this, due to be released any day now:

WorldWorksGames :: View topic - *UPCOMING* Himmelveil #1: Streets


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## Scribble (Aug 25, 2009)

I just use the generic flipmat because I can use dry erase markers with it.

Wet erase markers are too messy, and I have little patience for arranging various tiles and such.


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## Treebore (Aug 25, 2009)

I am like several of you, big fan of Fat Dragon, followed by Paizo's Flip Map/Map Tiles line, then Worldworks, then WOTC's own tiles line.

If Dwarven Forge could cut their prices, say in half, I would be all over their products. As it is, I just drool.

I have found my Heroscape stuff to be useful too, but I am way beyond just the base set.


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## WampusCat43 (Aug 25, 2009)

I miss my projector.  The ability to use layers on the map to simulate fog of war was priceless.  

Well, there is a price.  I haven't been willing to tear up my newly-remodeled basement ceiling to re-install it.


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## Treebore (Aug 25, 2009)

WampusCat43 said:


> I miss my projector.  The ability to use layers on the map to simulate fog of war was priceless.
> 
> Well, there is a price.  I haven't been willing to tear up my newly-remodeled basement ceiling to re-install it.





Tear out? You know where the support beams for the projector are, right? Its called a utility knife, and you cut a square that perfectly fits the outline of your projector. Then to pretty it up you can buy and install molding around it. Use a metal straight edge when you cut, and don't try to cut through in one pass, try and do it in 3 passes. Should take you about an hour once you have everything on hand. Oh, and have your shop n vac ready, or broom, dust pan, and vacuum.

Just don't rub the spackling off around the site. I hate doing spackling.


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## darjr (Aug 25, 2009)

I am considering getting a flat panel display stand that holds the panel horizontal to the table surface. A 22 or 24 inch wide screen should be enough room for an encounter and mini's. Then display a grid and effects on it as a secondary display to my laptop. Mini's could go on top of that. No overhead and it would be kind of portable. I'd probably cover the monitor with some clear protective sheet or plastic.

But I'm so enamored with using 3d terrain that I think I can't go back.


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## WampusCat43 (Aug 25, 2009)

Mounting the projector's not the hard part, believe it or not.  It's getting the mirror (a 12" x 12" tile) in exactly the right position, safely and securely.


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## WampusCat43 (Aug 25, 2009)

darjr said:


> I am considering getting a flat panel display stand that holds the panel horizontal to the table surface. A 22 or 24 inch wide screen should be enough room for an encounter and mini's. Then display a grid and effects on it as a secondary display to my laptop. Mini's could go on top of that. No overhead and it would be kind of portable. I'd probably cover the monitor with some clear protective sheet or plastic.
> 
> But I'm so enamored with using 3d terrain that I think I can't go back.




This is my long range plan also, although I want to go much bigger.  What you're talking about will only yield about 13" x 18" worth of display.  I want to go for the whole dungeon!

*off to buy more lottery tickets*


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## Mark (Aug 25, 2009)

A projector and 3d terrain can be combined by just using greys or off whites for the physical pieces and projecting the colors/images upon them.


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## darjr (Aug 25, 2009)

WampusCat43 said:


> This is my long range plan also, although I want to go much bigger.  What you're talking about will only yield about 13" x 18" worth of display.  I want to go for the whole dungeon!
> 
> *off to buy more lottery tickets*





Yes bigger is better... race ya!


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## Zaukrie (Aug 25, 2009)

Varianor Abroad said:


> Actually, I make almost all my own terrain. I've found that even the water-based paints will eat (really "dissolve") styrofoam. If you want to make your own, and you don't want to go the Hirst Arts/Dwarven Forge way, then it's possible to make good-looking terrain with insulation foam, artist's gesso (for primery), some Xacto's and hot wire cutters, and your imagination. Plaster and foamcore are also useful for certain things.
> 
> As noted in the thread, consider your storage capacity. That's the big one!




I've never had that problem with Aqua brand. As for hot wire cutters, I don't use those as I don't like breathing neuro toxins...


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## Scribble (Aug 26, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> I've never had that problem with Aqua brand. As for hot wire cutters, I don't use those as I don't like breathing neuro toxins...




Those are the best toxins though!


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## Varianor Abroad (Aug 26, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> I've never had that problem with Aqua brand. As for hot wire cutters, I don't use those as I don't like breathing neuro toxins...




You can also cut the pink and blue stuff with an old bread knife or an old cutting knife. Sandpaper can take it down into interesting shapes as well. I think the results are very spectacular when combined with a good paint job, and each piece is unique.


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## Obryn (Aug 26, 2009)

Instead of hot wire cutters, try an electric turkey carver.  They do an awesome job on various foams.

-O


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## Lhorgrim (Aug 26, 2009)

For those who use Hirst Arts and Dwarven Forge, how do you deal with the half square next to the walls?

For example, if I have a hallway that is three squares in width, and the walls are 1/2 inch thick, that leaves a usable width of 2 inches, but its 1 full square and two half squares right?  So my 10' wide corridor really only allows for single file passage using minis.

Can you construct the corridor differently without messing up doorways and intersections, or do you just assume the representative minis can occupy partial squares or what?

I'd love to do the Hirst Arts stuff now that I've got a good core of Fat Dragon EZ dungeons done.  I would use the HA stuff for the cool set piece battles, and the FD stuff for the rest but I'm not sure how well they would sync.


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## pogre (Aug 26, 2009)

Lhorgrim said:


> For those who use Hirst Arts and Dwarven Forge, how do you deal with the half square next to the walls?
> 
> For example, if I have a hallway that is three squares in width, and the walls are 1/2 inch thick, that leaves a usable width of 2 inches, but its 1 full square and two half squares right?  So my 10' wide corridor really only allows for single file passage using minis.
> 
> ...



Here's how I do it. I have refined things a bit but here are the basics:

Making a Dungeon Room Part One

All of the pictures in this tutorial are thumbnails that are linked to larger photos.

A few people had expressed interest in how I create dungeon rooms to integrate with my massive Dwarven Forge Master Maze collection. This tutorial talks about my style of creating rooms and what works for me. It’s not the only way, and Bruce Hirst   has his own tutorial for using his blocks for making dungeon tiles. I do things differently stylistically and for purposes of the dungeons and dragons game.

I created a number of blocks using Hirst Arts molds Fieldstone Wall Mold #70 and Flagstone Floor Tile Mold #260.

Here you can see I already have the bricks I need molded out of die keen dental plaster ready to go. I am going to make a generic 30 ft. by 30 ft. room. The needed materials have all been laid out on my cheap cutting board I use for modeling.





I first put the floor together. This is the first of many places that I depart from Bruce Hirst’s tutorial. I surround my 30 ft by 30 ft worth of tile with a layer of half tiles. This way when I put my walls down I will have nice full squares to works with – as opposed to the half squares you get with Master Maze or the Hirst method. The tiles are glued together side to side – not down to any surface. This helps to avoid warping, which can occur with bigger floor pieces.





I use Aleene’s Tacky Glue and a cheap brush to apply the glue to the tiles. 





I let the floor pieces dry completely before the next step of putting the floor tiles on a base. I like using self-adhesive linoleum floor tiles as a base. A 12” by 12” piece will run you about 90 cents at a DIY store like Lowe’s. The piece pictured here has been used for other projects, but has plenty left to use for this room.





I mark the tile for cutting for the room’s size. In this case I cut two pieces to cover.

Next, I apply some glue to the hirst arts tiles and stick the *non-adhesive* side of the linoleum to the hirst arts tiles. This helps reduce warping. I have tried using the adhesive side but it causes all kinds of problems: It warps your floor, it makes the project harder to paint, and you have to deal with the sticky adhesive that never dries. 





I flip this over and allow it to dry with a big heavy book on top.

Next, I start to build the room. I use Lego (tm) forms to keep my corners and walls true.





I finish up the corners and set the main room aside.





Honestly, I could be finished building here and have a nice room with four exits. Master Maze doors fit nicely into each of the exits. However, I want this room to be versatile as possible. I am going to create three insertable wall pieces in order to have a 30 ft. by 30 ft. room with 1 to 4 exits. I am also going to make some corridor entrances just for fun.

I will build the corridor entrances upside down.





The same is true for the movable walls.





I let these dry and then add a feature or two to the corridor pieces – torch holders and slanted pieces to the crowns.





Now, the pieces are built. All I have to do is let everything dry completely and then paint it. But wait, there’s more! I also have a couple more tricks to show you on how to make it even more compatible with your master maze. 


You will notice in this next photo I have already painted the basic grays on the dungeon room. I have sculpted a couple of flames and put them atop the torches.





Next I base the torch holders and the flames black.





I painted the bases brass and painted the flames. I was not crazy about how the flames turned out – so no close-ups. I took the whole thing out and gave it a few coats of matte over gloss. 

I could be done and have a very nice room.





Recall, I used self adhesive tile for a base. Now I measure some dark felt to put on the tile.





I cut it to fit and place it on the tiles adhesive. No glue application and thus no concerns about warping!





Some white spaces show on the side of the tile – so I use a permanent black marker to touch up.





Now, my dungeon room is done! Look how nicely it works with my Master Maze.


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## Lhorgrim (Aug 26, 2009)

Thanks pogre!

That's exactly the information I was looking for.  

I'll be ordering my first two molds tomorrow.  I can't wait to use this stuff in a game.   I'll keep it a secret from my players until I have completed a room or two. 

I usually cover some pre-constructed Fat Dragon terrain with one of those cheap plastic picnic cloths, and reveal it when the players get to that area.  I can't wait to see the look on their faces when I uncover the Hirst Arts version instead of cardstock.


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## Xyxox (Aug 26, 2009)

Lhorgrim said:


> For those who use Hirst Arts and Dwarven Forge, how do you deal with the half square next to the walls?
> 
> For example, if I have a hallway that is three squares in width, and the walls are 1/2 inch thick, that leaves a usable width of 2 inches, but its 1 full square and two half squares right?  So my 10' wide corridor really only allows for single file passage using minis.
> 
> ...




I'm actually working up a new magnetized technique developed on the Hirst Arts boards. I'm creating bases that have blocks glued down to 1/8 think artist's hardboard cut into 4"X4" pieces. Everything is based on that 4" measurement. I use extruded polystyrene (1/2" thick) to fill the center and then epoxy down a thin piece of sheet metal on top. I use a piece of felt over that.

Then the set pieces are floor tiles glued on top of 1/8" thick artist's hardboard with holes drilled on center of each 1" square. I'm epoxying magnets into the holes and then apply a piece of felt to the bottoms after painting. These peices are usually 2X4 1" tiles. Then, I do 1"X4" long pieces with floor tiles, the magents, etc. and walls centered. I make corner pieces, I've done round pieces, all sorts of bits and pieces, all with magnets.

Now these peices I magnet to the base plates from the first paragraph of my description. Those base plates also have magnets in set places on the sides so that two base plates abutted will stick together unless pulled apart.

Since everything is double modular, I can get all sorts of configurations quickly and easily. For about thirty minutes of setup time prior to playing, I can have modular pieces set out of the way ready to place on the table in minutes. These pieces, after sticking everything together with the magents, work pretty much like Dwarven Forge pieces. Basically, if you consider the walls to be 5' thick to scale, both sides of each wall are usable and the dungeons look great.

I need to buld a lot more pieces to have anything close to what I would consider a full set, and I'm currently sorting throu how to use the HA cavern pieces in a similar way. I'll get that sorted out soon, but I think I'm going to have to migrate to an 8" square base plate for standard pieces with caverns.

When all is said and done, I should be able to do anything with my set that can be done with Dwarvenforge with a lot more modularity and tons more things that you cannot currently do with Dwarvenforge.

The thing I've found about Hirst Arts is, there are about as many techniques for dungeons as there are people making dungeons.


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## teitan (Aug 26, 2009)

I'd say that while Dwarven Forge is the Cadillac of gaming terrain... Hirst Arts is the Astin-Martin!


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## N0Man (Aug 26, 2009)

Wow Pogre, that's awesome!

I use a lot of the WotC Dungeon Tiles myself.  Just a couple days ago I also ran across a great tutorial on making your own Dungeon Tiles over at NewbieDM.  I'm going to be trying my hand at something like this very soon.

Dungeon Tiles aren't nearly as impressive as what Pogre posted though...


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## Mark (Aug 26, 2009)

N0Man said:


> Wow Pogre, that's awesome!
> 
> I use a lot of the WotC Dungeon Tiles myself.  Just a couple days ago I also ran across a great tutorial on making your own Dungeon Tiles over at NewbieDM.  I'm going to be trying my hand at something like this very soon..





You could cover that 1/32 (mentioned in the article) by printing on cardstock, I suppose.


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## Mark (Aug 26, 2009)

pogre said:


> I have sculpted a couple of flames and put them atop the torches.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ever thought about working some X-Mas lights in as torches?


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## Xyxox (Aug 26, 2009)

Mark said:


> Ever thought about working some X-Mas lights in as torches?




LEDs would work better.


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## Perram (Aug 26, 2009)

I keep hearing Hirst Arts come up again and again.

For those of you that use the product, about how long does it take to assemble a good sized basic piece?  (Like say a 4x4 corner piece or wall piece?)


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## Alan Shutko (Aug 27, 2009)

The groups I've been in are currently using wet-erase battlemaps most of the time.  We had a projector setup in one DM's old place, but neither his new place nor my place have the right spot to mount it.  It was really shiny and cool, since the DM did maps in Dundjinni and then did fog of war with Photoshop.  When we started Keep on the Shadowfell, we used the big battlemaps that came with it.

For a Tomb of Horrors run, I redid the map in 5" squares using the old-style map symbols and grid, and cut the pieces out to lay them out.  That was pretty fiddly but did sort of fit the old-school nature of the game.

I've built a few of the World Works models for a dungeon and village.  Those are very cool!  I'm almost done with the Maiden, and when I'm done I'm so running a pirate adventure.  The 3d boat is absolutely unbelievable and will look even better than the PJ did.  The dungeon layout I did wasn't too hot, but it was pretty cool.  I didn't have time to build a lot of components so I did one of the easier sets with flat walls, and I had to keep moving the walls around for each room.  Chunky Dungeons looks like it would be a better experience, and the new TerrainLinx system looks like a dream, in terms of quickly putting modules together.

At Gencon, I picked up some Fat Dragon EZ Dungeon Sets, which also look like they'd be pretty easy to hook components together.  I really like their drop-in traps, where you can build modules for traps that you insert only after the party triggers the traps.  

Odds are, I'll continue using a mix of vinyl battlemap and cardstock terrain for my mapping.  I'm hoping to build up a backlog of terrain builds I can use components from.  Odd random encounters and the like will either be handwaved (I run RCD&D) or done on a battlemap.


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## Xyxox (Aug 27, 2009)

Perram said:


> I keep hearing Hirst Arts come up again and again.
> 
> For those of you that use the product, about how long does it take to assemble a good sized basic piece?  (Like say a 4x4 corner piece or wall piece?)




Building pieces goes quickly if you're just glueing blocks together. The techniques I described earlier are more advanced and take much longer because there's a lot more to it than just the blocks. Putting together a set of dungeon pieces similar to a set of purchased Dwarven Forge stuff would take probably three or four hours to glue together including time to cut out what you're glueing the pieces down to so long as it's card board of extruded polystyrene foam (most commonly used as you can add pits etc. easily). If you use hardboard, it will take more time to prep the bottom.

Then there's casting time. Most Hirst Arts hobbyists get into a groove of spending so many minutes every day casting as it's repetitive and simply takes some time. I've been trying to cast for a minimum of 1 hour daily to build up a supply of blocks. I also have 24 different molds in three major styles (Gothic, Water Cavern, and my favorite which is Fieldstone). I've been concentrating on fieldstone for the time being, with small block as a mold I try to cast at least once daily. I'm also prepping to pour several molds of my own which will speed up some of my processes.


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## Fu-Man Chu (Aug 29, 2009)

Perram said:


> Dwarven Forge.  The Cadalac of gaming supplies, I would wager.  This stuff looks amazing... but comes with an amazing price tag.  It isn't out of my reach, however, but I'm worried that it would be hard to customize it or create custom items that worked well with it.  My other big worry is that I travel to most of the games I run... and it might be a tad hard to transport regularly.
> 
> Anyone have any insights or opinions?




I have to agree that DF is some of the best 3D terrain that is out there. And indeed, it does cost quite a bit - however, many years ago I realized that while there will often new editions of games coming out that could often render useless the mounds of books we have, there's not going to be any new "edition" of DF terrain that will make the previous purchased terrain useless. In fact, the stuff is so durable, that it will last many MANY years of usage.

I also look at DF as artwork - sure, not what most people think about for art, but its certainly very artistic (Stefan himself is an artist "in real life") and whole lot more useable and practical than the stuff that hang's on most people's walls.

Another downside however is that it can be difficult to travel with. However, we (the DF community forums) have recently found a storage unit that doubles fairly well as a travel unit. Since pulling and re-placing the terrain in the original storage boxes takes a fair amount of time, I would often save the DF for just the major encounters. With the Sterilite drawers, it takes 1/5 the time while still giving fairly good protection. 

Here's a link to the storage drawers as well as my experience taking my DF with me to my friend's place to game: dwarvenforge.com / Storage drawer


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## Doc_Klueless (Aug 29, 2009)

With my Hirst Arts molds, I do the following:

I get up and go for my morning run. When I return, I grab a cup of coffee and do up a set of molds (usually 4 molds using Merlin's Magic plaster). Then I go grab a shower and get dressed for work. After that, I demold my blocks and pour another set. I putz around on the computer for another 20 minutes or so, then demold that set. Depending on how much time I've been screwin' around, I might get one more set of molds poured. More times than not, I don't have that much time. Still 2 sets of 4 molds every day adds up quickly.

I have 30-ish molds and I make my own (using the instructions right off his website) for floors, roofs, etc.

However, I should add that I just love putting together the buildings and such. Even if I never use them for gaming, I just love to make 'em. That love makes the whole process seem quick and effortless.


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## Doc_Klueless (Aug 29, 2009)

Lhorgrim said:


> For those who use Hirst Arts and Dwarven Forge, how do you deal with the half square next to the walls?



 Once you get into making stuff with the blocks, you find that you can make all kinds of stuff. I have some hallways like those on Hirst Arts with the half-square. Others are narrower; others are wider. 

The only reason I can see for not adding that half-square is lack of materials. I find that without it, people have difficulty seeing over the walls and seeing where their tokens or miniatures are. To remedy that, I simply made the walls shorter here and there. 

Gives a nice effect, I think.


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## Perram (Aug 30, 2009)

Fu-Man Chu said:


> I have to agree that DF is some of the best 3D terrain that is out there. And indeed, it does cost quite a bit - however, many years ago I realized that while there will often new editions of games coming out that could often render useless the mounds of books we have, there's not going to be any new "edition" of DF terrain that will make the previous purchased terrain useless. In fact, the stuff is so durable, that it will last many MANY years of usage.
> 
> I also look at DF as artwork - sure, not what most people think about for art, but its certainly very artistic (Stefan himself is an artist "in real life") and whole lot more useable and practical than the stuff that hang's on most people's walls.
> 
> ...




What's the dimensions of those drawers?  Those might be the magic bullet.


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