# S.M.A.C.K. OOC/Clutter Thread



## Jeremy (Dec 3, 2002)

Characters are here.


----------



## buzzard (Dec 3, 2002)

Sorry, didn't think of that. I'll edit the post. 
Then again with the to hit of the big T, I don't think it matters. 

buzzard


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 3, 2002)

I thought we needed a thread for chatter and needed an excuse to start it.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 4, 2002)

I'll use this thread to tell you what the heck you just fought after the more . . . interesting . . . matches.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 6, 2002)

C'mon reaper.    Layeth the smack down.


----------



## DM_Matt (Dec 6, 2002)

Regarding what reaper said about how long it takes to adjudicate high-level play:

I DMed an L16 live/pbp/irc game this summer and it was hell.  Even if everytihng else was precalculated, the rediculous spell combos n stuff kept changing things....I could imagine how every contingency could be precalculated for both the PCs and the baddies, but that would taske forever in preparation and still be subject to change.

In short, unless the characters dont take advantage of their  full power potential, high level combat in 3e takes so long to calculate that it detracts quite a lot from the fun.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 7, 2002)

Ya, Matt - I just couldn't picture the time and effort needed to coordinate something on that high of power-scale.

While this is an extreme example of power-gaming, it certainly re-inforces my opinion that high-level gaming is unbelievable and problematic, if it was a Tabletop game.
You'd HAVE to shift the emphasis to almost completely-roleplay, wouldn't you?

Even at the Against the Storm power level of 9th level, we've seen how strategic combat is a bear to tackle, haven't we?
That's without a discussion of the role-playing impacts of higher level spells (Improved Insibility, Teleport, etc), but don't get me started on that...   LOL 

From the first round, I can safely say that the Inner Munchkin in me is completely sated (and then some).

*I hereby volunteer to take out anything that anyone (particularly Jeph) feels is unbalancing, unfair, not-in-the-spirit-of-the-game, or just "too-powerful".*

I really hadn't expected the combo to be THAT powerful. 

I've already taken out the Typhoon Attack and the Bull Charge (replaced with Quickened Turning feats). That Typhoon attack is probably the most absurd thing I can imagine in the combo.

I can't guarantee how fast I'll update it, but I'm curious what anybody would prefer was the first thing(s) gone out of the Mok-Tar character build?
Anybody read all the way thru it?

P.S. I'll post the "final" Munchkin Mok-Tar build when I get the chance.
It removes things like Divine Favor and Divine Power (range is Personal), etc, but adds Domain spells for Karnak (Rage).


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 8, 2002)

reaper, you've built a great character and should not remove anything from it...

So, do we get XP for the Tarrasque?


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 9, 2002)

Hey Reaper, please replace Mok'Tar's +8 to charisma from a double empowered eagle's splendor with a +48 to charisma from a 10x extended, 22x empowered eagle's splendor from Arowain.

Jeph, I have revised my preparation spells and updated it in both the finished characters thread, and the original characters thread.

The major change is the spell Favor of Ilmater from Magic of Faerun which allows the target to become immune to subdual damage, charm effects, compulsions, attacks that function by causing pain, and all effects that would cause him to be dazed, exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, staggered, or stunned.

This allows Arowain to spelldance for up to 16 minutes without becoming fatigued.  Of course, his perform check isn't high enough to pull off more than a 6 minute spell dance.... yet.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 9, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Hey Reaper, please replace Mok'Tar's +8 to charisma from a double empowered eagle's splendor with a +48 to charisma from a 10x extended, 22x empowered eagle's splendor from Arowain.*



oh, boy - welcome to over 10,000 points of damage in one attack.  

The funny thing is, one Forcecage and he's outta business.

edit: you'd think there'd be a rule that you could substitute 2,500 points of damage to equal a Disintegrate spell, or something...


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 9, 2002)

I think our next opponents AC of 80 or so will be the more problematic part.  That and their DR of higher enhancement than we can yet achieve.    And their attack rolls and grapple checks are nothing to be sneezed at either.  And their SR is going to be well beyond anything I can scratch, though a 40th level caster like our red wizard, might have a shot.  

Grab your big gunz boys, this is an even proposition.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 9, 2002)

Mok-Tar would have shields with an enhancement bonus of +27 currently, up to +47 if I included what you propose.... 

Don't tell me they have DR of 50/+50?! (I haven't  looked at their stats yet - where are they listed?)


----------



## Jeph (Dec 9, 2002)

Nope, no EXP. However, whoever deals out the killing blow (in this case Reaper) recieves 1 point of Life Insurance. When you start facing other munchkins, you'll start dying. Spend a point of LIfe Insurance to not do so.

This solves 2 problems that I've forseen with this game: high rate of PC death, and levelling up at a tremendous rate do to facing massively powerful foes.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 9, 2002)

Blast.  That policy makes it difficult for people to do things like Janos's character casting Grimwald's Grey Mantle, or my character doing Mass Haste's and Eagle's Splendor's.

If we buff allies or debuff foes, we give a chance to someone else to get the kill.    I kinda like the difference of our scenario and traditional smackdowns in that this one relies on teamwork, and smackdowns are solo.  If you only get life insurance for the kill shot, teamwork could go out the window.  

But you're the DM..


----------



## buzzard (Dec 9, 2002)

Well without a hefty amount of buffing, I will never hit an AC of 80. Also the DR will leave me rather ineffectual. I suppose I could just hide up near the ceiling or something...

buzzard


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 9, 2002)

Jeph, you do realize that what you've done now has killed teamwork. It's a big Get Your Kills In...I don't think it's a good decicion


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 10, 2002)

I never care about experience, or points or anything.

As long as I have 1 life point left, anyone can have any others.

We could make it random, or group vote, or alphabetical.

We could do it like they did in "The Big Hit", where we squabble amongst ourselves or convince each other who should get the point for that 'hit'.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 10, 2002)

Okay, that Life Insurance thing doesn't seem to be a good idea. 

However, I'd like to use something like it . . . . how 'bout, after each match, each character gains 1000 EXP. If they do something really impressive durring the match, they gain an extra 500 EXP. This EXP can not be used to level up, but can be used to create items, and cast spells.  In addition, if a character dies, they may immediately spend 1500 EXP to drop to -9 HP (stabalized) instead of dying. Sound good?


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 10, 2002)

Sounds great to me.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 10, 2002)

I've got an idea! 
Let's use the Fate point system that many people have suggested over the years that gives Fate points that allows you to reroll a die, or auto-save, or stabilize, or stuff like that.

I'll point out now that almost all versions of that I've seen give Fate points based on your CHA mod.


----------



## garyh (Dec 10, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I'll point out now that almost all versions of that I've seen give Fate points based on your CHA mod.   *




...says the unbiased Reapersaurus.


----------



## Sparrowhawk (Dec 10, 2002)

*Quick Question*

How exactly does Tourach have a caster level of 43?


----------



## The Forsaken One (Dec 10, 2002)

Simple, circle magic.

Welcome to the Forgotten Realms.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 10, 2002)

Fear.  

Again, question, how did the archer hide while being observed, or attack and stay hidden?  I missed the item/feat/ability that permits that and it'd be useful for my psion deepwood sniper.


----------



## buzzard (Dec 10, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Fear.
> 
> Again, question, how did the archer hide while being observed, or attack and stay hidden?  I missed the item/feat/ability that permits that and it'd be useful for my psion deepwood sniper.   *




Ring of chameleon power. It allows for you to hide as a free action.  Well they actually use the term "magically blend into the surroundings". Thus it implies hide without shadows. The other nice feature of the ring is the +15 untyped hide bonus. Thus a person who really didn't want to be seen could wear two of them. 

buzzard


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

Nice!  How well does that work with a robe of blending say?

So he isn't actually hiding, he's pulling a predator and virtually turning invisible.  Very nice.  Have to get one of those for my deepwood sniper.

****

What do you mean use regular CHA reaper?    I blew a whole day's spell dancing on just your character.


----------



## buzzard (Dec 11, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Nice!  How well does that work with a robe of blending say?
> *




It should stack since the hide bonus is not named. It's rather like a bug, but if they don't name the bonus type, you can't have a problem stacking it with a like bonus. 



> So he isn't actually hiding, he's pulling a predator and virtually turning invisible.  Very nice.  Have to get one of those for my deepwood sniper.
> [/B]




Exactly.  I just picked up one for my sniper in the home campaign. 

buzzard


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 11, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *What do you mean use regular CHA reaper?    I blew a whole day's spell dancing on just your character.   *



It makes me feel all slimey inside.   LOL

This hideousness is taking a toll on my gaming soul.  

+40 something CHA it is, unless Jeph calls "Time!" .

P.S. So Jeph - the XP rewards is what's gonna happen?
If so, can I assume Mok-Tar has 1500 XP?


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

Bah.  What's impressive about that piddly amount of damage?  

Yeah, so it'd kill everyone in the room twice over..  And it took a round to do..  And you're a four-armed door swinging..  Oh fine!  I want to play Mok'Tar too.  *pouts*


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 11, 2002)

Hey, now THAT's an idea!

Anyone who wants could swap characters between any encounter and learn how that character is played, and/or show how it could be used.

I wouldn't mind someone else calculating up all that hideous  damage for a fight -  save me some brain-strain...  LOL

I think that's a great idea!


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

HELL no.    You made your over complex deathdrap of mayhem iron throne bed.  YOU sleep in it.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 11, 2002)

Yep. Mok-Tar 1500 EXP, all other PCs 1000. 

Hmm, need something for cohorts . . . how bout, 400 a match for them, or 600 when their master does Something Really Cool? That would make all those fellow circle-magic-ers at +400 exp.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

In Tourach's defense, a quote from the text of dimension door.



> _Originally printed in the System Reference Document:_
> *The character instantly transfers from the character's current location to any other spot within range. The character always arrives at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction, such as "900 feet straight downward," or "upward to the northwest, 45-degree angle, 1,200 feet." After using this spell, the character can’t take any other actions until the character's next turn.*




Last sentence being the important bit.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

*takes the kick me sign off his back*

Hey look!  It says surprise round.  That means that was the only action it took that round.  Nobody mind me.  I'm with stupid.  

Invisible, Hasted, pseudonatural paragon bunnies..  This is bad.  On top of their AC and SR, they've got class levels as well.


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 11, 2002)

Jeremy, wtf was the Dim Door stuff about?

well, nvm explaining that.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

????

Yes it's bad, but I take it we're going to lose some rounds and win some rounds of this arena.  And you're not down and out yet.

And you've got XP to burn to save even if you were.

Calm down, relax, and think of it as a game where you respawn with a loss in one of your columns.


----------



## The Forsaken One (Dec 11, 2002)

*Bunny Bastard DM* would better suit this  

Kill Tourach KILL HIM!!! No mercy!



No rest for the wicked!


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 11, 2002)

There are things you just don't do, and one of them is screwing your players on wording. NOT DONE.


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 11, 2002)

Jeph, answer the following questions:

1) How did it see me? (the only correct answer is "180+ ft. Blindsight")

2) Why did I not see it? (the corrects answers are "180+ ft. Blindsight" / "screwed on wording")

3) How could it do something after DDoor, when my init is higher? (the only correct answer is "I cheated")


----------



## The Forsaken One (Dec 11, 2002)

It's a abomination paragorn pseudonatural demigod bunny with divine initiative. (and the bunny had highest init according to the list).

Die evil necromancer die! 

And you of all as munchkin should know the importants of correct formulation and complete wording and description 

Die evil Necromancer die die die!!


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 11, 2002)

tja, kriske, ik had toch gedacht dat 33 > 30, maar blijkbaar had ik het mis...

slet


----------



## The Forsaken One (Dec 11, 2002)

haha slechte munchkin verliezer, wordt je es gepakt op je eigen bewoordingen ipv die van een rule book


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 11, 2002)

kris, wij hebben heel andere standaarden...


----------



## The Forsaken One (Dec 11, 2002)

squeel squeel


----------



## Jeph (Dec 11, 2002)

Okay, this is what happened:

Look up the Psuedonatural template in the ELH. Look under Paragon Special Abilities. They are: Greater Dispelling, Haste, and See Invisibility, each 3/day. Haste was the extra actions after D-Door. See Invisibility was how he saw you. And his init was 2 higher than yours: you had 28, he had 30. Don't worry, you won't die. You may have a bit of ability damage and a lot of HP damage, but you'll live.

Oh, and btw, I speak German, so I can understand a good deal of Dutch when I have time to look at it and read it over a few times.


----------



## The Forsaken One (Dec 11, 2002)

Nou dan Jeph, neem je tijd


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 11, 2002)

Jeph

1) Remeber the INSIDIOUS MAGIC? MAKE THAT CASTER LEVEL CHECK! I *really* don't think he can see me. ing bunny may cast as 20th lvl sorc, but he still can't make that DC 54 check now, can he?

2) My Init is 33, unless you changed that.

3) It's not the dying I am so pissed about (I can teleport away easily), it is the way you handled things wrong and especially the part about the 'see' stuff. That is what angered me the most.

sorry 'bout being rude...it's just that I couldn't really stand the 'nyah, nyah, I twisted your intend and now you get hurt...hehehe' part...

(You edit your post, so that it reflects the correct abilities of my character, and I will edit mine...deal?)


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

> I'll give you the hint: the way to destroy this thing is a spell with Target effect that deals not-that-much damage. Jeremy, that's you.




I think I know what spell you mean, but unfortunately at 16th level, I don't yet have a way to counter epic SR.  

I think it's SR is 44.  A bunny has no CR that I know of, +18 CR for paragon template (unless it is a 7 hd dire bunny ), +16 CR for pseudonatural template = CR 33 for one of the buggers.  Unfortunately, the paragon template also grants SR of 10 + CR.  As a 16th level cleric I'd have to roll a 28 on my d20 for my caster level check to affect it with a damaging spell.  Even if it only has 50 hit points.  

So here's hoping reaper can hit it's 87 AC (10 base +3 size +15 dex +12 insight +12 luck +35 natural) because this round, the critter is almost immune to me.    Almost, in that I gave reaper +40 more charisma.  As he can normally do all his attacks at +51, if he ceases power attacking, attacks with only his primary to avoid off hand penalties, doesn't use all his gain extra attacks for negatives to attack rolls, he should get up to high enough to hit the thing once, which should be plenty to do it in.  Even if it's less than 100 pts.  And with the extra +20 from divine shield alone, I don't think hitting will be a problem, though doing less than 100 points of damage might be.  

Though I could be missing something.    Still I'm pretty confident that the melee people can solve this one.  Though our archer seems a little outclassed.  I'll have to change my day of resting to a +48 dex to him to get his attack bonus up a little.    ((Toldja!  I'm a buffing mad man! ))


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 12, 2002)

There.  Edited my writeup in the character thread.

If it's alright with Jeph, Oliver should have a +48 enhancement bonus to his dexterity next round for whatever it is we shall be butting heads with.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 12, 2002)

Insideous Magic should be in your Other Defenses line, along with the DC. I just going by that when I wrote the bunny's post. I feel really stupid now, I looked at your AC for the init.  Post will be edited. I think the bunny can still see you, though: it has insane listen checks, and the 50% miss chance is negated by Constant Insight (Psuedonatural ability, like True Strike, always active but only +15 attack).

Okay, completely redoing those few posts. I'll give details in the IC thread. Now, back to the beginning of this combat.

And, I SWEAR I SHALL NOT SCREW THINGS UP LIKE THIS AGAIN.

You know, this whole thing strikes me as slightly comical. After all, the things just an alien bunny.


----------



## Victim (Dec 12, 2002)

Monte Python and the Epic Level Handbook?  Damn bunnies are killing everything.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 12, 2002)

This encounter was indeed inspired by Monte Python. I had thought of making it a Paragon Bunny with 8 levels of Fighter and a Vorpal Bite ability, but decided otherwise.


----------



## buzzard (Dec 12, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *There.  Edited my writeup in the character thread.
> 
> If it's alright with Jeph, Oliver should have a +48 enhancement bonus to his dexterity next round for whatever it is we shall be butting heads with.   *




Could you also hit my bow with a greater magic weapon? That would move it up to +5 (it's +3 speed right now). 

With these two buffs I'd have a chance of hitting the bunnies. 

buzzard


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 12, 2002)

Certainly, though it'll have to wait til next round as I have no more GMW's prepared this round.

I'll go edit it into my spells cast daily for you.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 12, 2002)

Ok.  Finished the edit and polished a little more.

My flight pattern on super stat buffs is full, but it is worked out to be looping, so no one's stat boost ever comes closer to wearing out than 2 days.

+17 feats that only work under certain encumbrance limits for no cost.  I shoulda used that book.    I worked +40 more (that is, more than the +8 bull's strength you had before) strength in there for Mok'Tar, reapersaurus.  Depending on the CR's of the next foes we'll face, we may need it.  

Cleric's are the best.


----------



## Kalanyr (Dec 12, 2002)

Four Colour to Fantasy Thing:
I'm not sure about this but I'm pretty certain that the Extra Feat/Skill Point abilities say that you can't take restrictions on them.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 12, 2002)

Ya, it seemed wrong to me, too, Kal - but it was specifically asked of RW here: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=22214
and the answer was yes, you can use restrictions on the Gain Feat superpower.

He may consider a change to it, but currently you can use Restrictions.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 12, 2002)

Jeph : 
If Karnak casts Persistent Divine Power on Mok-Tar (thru a vibrant purple ioun stone), what BAB would Mok-Tar have?

Is he "character level" 16?

If so, than he would get an extra iterative attack when under Divine Power (8th level spell, cast daily).
Could he gain the Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting Feat? (prereq: BAB+15)


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 12, 2002)

I wouldn't think so.  ECL is for XP and starting gold only, I would say Divine Power is based off of hit die.  But that's me.

BTW, Arowain hasn't posted an action yet because as I'm so far down in the init scale, I want to see what the situation is when it's my turn.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 12, 2002)

Reaper: He'd gain +15 BAB, that goes by level (not ECL), as Jeremy said. however, what CL is the spell in the stone? He gains that many HP. (I had a question about a lv 4 cleric with a CL 7 scroll of this a few days ago in Rules. Convenient, that. )

Oh, and there's a few thousand more bunnies for you over in the IC thread.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 12, 2002)

Buzzard, Reapersaurus:  When you get a chance, can you edit your posts in the Finished Characters threads to reflect you new stats?  Call it morbid curiosity, but I want to see what +48 STR/CHA, or +48 DEX +5 GMW does to your stat blocks.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 12, 2002)

"All three tunnels"?  So where are people in relation to the tunnels, the hordes of bunnies, and the cloudkill?


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 12, 2002)

I'm kind of releived that Divine Power doesn't use ECL.
I'd have to ask Arowain to make it Persistent so that it could 'fit' in the ioun stone, and then I'd 'have' to up the # of attacks by 4.  

I've ben updating Mok-Tar, and will post asap.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 13, 2002)

AFAICT (as far as I can tell), Janos is at the place where the main tunnel ends and the two smaller tunnels branch off, Oliver is in one of the small tunnels, and everyone else is in the main tunnel. Just say so if you happen to be somewhere else.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 13, 2002)

N/M


----------



## Victim (Dec 13, 2002)

n/m


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jeph_
> *Okay, this is the way it works: every round, you need a Spot check (DC 30) to find the super-bunny, or to keep track of it, if you've already found it. *




Arowain's spot was 51.  Does he not see any super bunnies?


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 17, 2002)

I'll post my action after Jeph makes a ruling as to whether I'm dead or not.  

Hopefully Tourach will just aim the wilting behind the rabbit to avoid toasting the guy with the healing spells.


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 17, 2002)

Right. The "too bad part" is actually referring to when I see the bunny. It has to move a LONG before it's in my square, but if Jeph plays it that I notice it as it runs past you, he could make me fire the spell (which would be very sucky, but within the rules...).


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 17, 2002)

nvm


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 18, 2002)

Question:

Why did the bunny not die in the surprise round to the holy word?  I was under the impression it had 1/4 HD, making it auto dead to Arowain's spell with no save or spell resistance.

I thought that was a rather clever move on my part seeing as it had just utterly dismissed Arowain.

Its head should have popped in the surprise round before Tourach or Oliver got a shot at it.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 18, 2002)

It did die in the surprise round from Arrowain's spell, or would have, but Tourach had already killed it (his readied action came after the bunny's turn, and before yours). If the bunny hadn't had it's dex effectively at 0 and it's Shield down, Oliver would have missed both times, anyway.

Well, that's what happens with multiple InstaKill spells. 1 ends up being wasted.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 18, 2002)

Ah.  Wierd init order.    My bad.  On with the mayhem.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 19, 2002)

See you?  I have no idea, but you didn't put the DC to pierce your invisibility in your special defenses so it probably got forgotten again.

And either one template or both gives flight I believe, so getting to you wasn't a problem.

PS- Can we keep the nothing but OOC posts over here, I don't know if helps anyone else, but it helps me.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 22, 2002)

Reaper: It had 3 days left on it.  Now it's got a week left on it.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 22, 2002)

OK.

How can we exactly explore the depths of the place with no DM for a day or 2?  

Jeremy - why don't you post what Mok-Tar finds?


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 22, 2002)

Because that would be a GRAVE infraction of rule number one.  

1: Never give the DM any more vicious ideas.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 29, 2002)

Bump.


----------



## Jeph (Dec 29, 2002)

Anyone else here? I'm back, you know . . .


----------



## Janos Audron (Dec 29, 2002)

always here, just start posting


----------



## buzzard (Dec 30, 2002)

The carrion eating birds are present. Proceed as you will.

buzzard


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 30, 2002)

LOL

Half Celestial with bat wings.  Poor old man got fooled on that one...  

BTW Corlon, my character took.....  Maybe 3 hours or so?  I stole him from some thread or other I saw on the D&D rules board that never got turned into a smack.  Works better as a team work thing anyways.


----------

