# A supposedly great thing that I'll never watch again- Great media that left you cold



## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 2, 2020)

I was reading @Retreater and his post in the Clone Wars thread-

_That's exactly where I was/am. In fact, I would stream the series whenever I had trouble falling asleep (seriously). But so many people have been coming at me like I have been missing out on the best thing that's happened to Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back, that I'm second guessing myself._

And I was thinking about the subject- what is some great media (TV, movies, music if that's your bag) that you finally broke down and consumed because "everyone says it's the best thing ever" and you were just like, "Eh. That's it?"

Now, for this I don't mean something that had a great cast, or something you were really looking forward to, but wasn't otherwise adored. For example, I was really looking forward to seeing the original _Casino Royale _because of the amazing cast, and it was terrible. But it's hardly a beloved piece of cinema.

This is more like, "Eh, Firefly is just not all that." And, by the way, what brought this up is a recently made the acquaintance of another _serious nerd_ who just, you know, didn't like Star Wars.

So I'll start this off:

Chuck. Couldn't make it through any full episode. 
Supernatural. Super ... WHY? Why do people watch this?
Back to the Future. It's ... it's fine. The first one is fine, if you avoid the disturbing mother/son aspects of it, which is, um, the plot.
Harry Potter. Eh. When people say the book is better than the movie, what happens when they both suck?


Just off the top of my head. Anyway- what media was highly recommended to you that you just couldn't get into?


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

In addition to the Clone Wars: Supernatural, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Bride, Critical Role, The Fifth Element, Unbreakable, the entire Kevin Smith filmography, the entire Quentin Tarantino filmography, the Matrix movies, Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Fantastic Beasts series, Sherlock, American Horror Story, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, The Witcher (tv series), Godfather/Scarface/Goodfellas/Sopranos gangster/mafia-type media.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> In addition to the Clone Wars: Supernatural, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Bride, Critical Role, The Fifth Element, Unbreakable, the entire Kevin Smith filmography, the entire Quentin Tarantino filmography, the Matrix movies, Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Fantastic Beasts series, Sherlock, American Horror Story, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, The Witcher (tv series), Godfather/Scarface/Goodfellas/Sopranos gangster/mafia-type media.




WOW! You just threw down the gauntlet, didn't you!

I am ... I am impressed. I wouldn't even know where to start with that list!


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> WOW! You just threw down the gauntlet, didn't you!
> 
> I am ... I am impressed. I wouldn't even know where to start with that list!



Yeah. I pretty much hate all media.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> In addition to the Clone Wars: Supernatural, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Bride, Critical Role, The Fifth Element, Unbreakable, the entire Kevin Smith filmography, the entire Quentin Tarantino filmography, the Matrix movies, Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Fantastic Beasts series, Sherlock, American Horror Story, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, The Witcher (tv series), Godfather/Scarface/Goodfellas/Sopranos gangster/mafia-type media.




Oh, okay.
*Supernatural *We agree

*Cowboy Bebop *Overrated. So much better anime out there; I assume it's because it was on Adult Swim so a lot of people saw this first?

*Princess Bride *... I .... can't even.  How can you abandon Wesley?!!???

*Critical Role *Totally sucks. 

*The Fifth Element *It's fine. Overrated. 

*Unbreakable *It's fine. Better than the sequels. 

*the entire Kevin Smith filmography *I mean ... yeah. I want to stand up for Dogma. Or Clerks. But reputation > substance. 

*the entire Quentin Tarantino filmography *YOU TAKE THIS BACK! EVERY FILM IS A TREASURE!

*the Matrix movies *Even the first one? "I know kung fu"

*Labyrinth, Dark Crystal *I can see this. It was the 80s- it wasn't like there were a lot of options.

*Fantastic Beasts series *Who recommends this?

*Sherlock *You know, I was thinking of putting this on my list. It's good, but I always feel like it should be so much better.

*American Horror Story *First season is good, second season is great, after that ... meh.

*The Walking Dead *It's like watching a snuff film, over and over. But less joyful. 

*Game of Thrones *I mean ... really? 

* The Witcher (tv series) *Haven't watched it. 

*Godfather/Scarface/Goodfellas/Sopranos gangster/mafia-type media. *Every time I get out, they pull me back in ....


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

As a general rule, I don't like media that feature criminal/murderous protagonists - so that strikes out Tarantino, gangster movies, Game of Thrones, etc.  
For me, Princess Bride falls completely into the same "it was the 80s" category as Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, et al. It's like watching a version of Robin Hood: Men in Tights that can't decide if it wants to be funny, romantic, serious, or what. 
Sherlock - first season or so was good, then it completely jumped the shark once it got into fan-service territory.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> As a general rule, I don't like media that feature criminal/murderous protagonists - so that strikes out Tarantino, gangster movies, Game of Thrones, etc.
> For me, Princess Bride falls completely into the same "it was the 80s" category as Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, et al. It's like watching a version of Robin Hood: Men in Tights that can't decide if it wants to be funny, romantic, serious, or what.
> Sherlock - first season or so was good, then it completely jumped the shark once it got into fan-service territory.




Your aversion to violence ... well, it makes a lot of your choices (Tarantino, Gangster, GoT, even Matrix) make a LOT more sense.


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## payn (Dec 2, 2020)

Rick and Morty. Impossible to watch.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

There's a few things I've actively been avoiding watching for no real reason. 

 The movie Titanic. Never seen it, don't want to, doesn't really interest me.

 Anime also seem some don't get it doesn't interest me.


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> There's a few things I've actively been avoiding watching for no real reason.



I've proudly avoided watching "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" since its release. I've heard it's great, but it's just more satisfying to tell people I haven't seen it than to actually watch it.
As a generality, I don't like movies set in the Southern US. As a person who lives in that region, watching your own culture be lampooned and told everyone there is an idiot, well, it just doesn't sit right.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> In addition to the Clone Wars: Supernatural, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Bride, Critical Role, The Fifth Element, Unbreakable, the entire Kevin Smith filmography, the entire Quentin Tarantino filmography, the Matrix movies, Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Fantastic Beasts series, Sherlock, American Horror Story, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, The Witcher (tv series), Godfather/Scarface/Goodfellas/Sopranos gangster/mafia-type media.



When you’re listing pretty much everything, the common denominator probably isn’t them!


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## embee (Dec 2, 2020)

Everything by JJ Abrams
About half of Joss Whedon's output
Everything by the Wachowski Siblings other than "The Matrix"
Gone With The Wind
The Ten Commandments
Every Bryan Singer movie
Every Brian de Palma movie
Every Paul Voehoeven movie
Avatar (unless I have LSD or mushrooms)
Napolean Dynamite
Juno 
Love Actually
The Blair Witch Project
Every Mel Gibson movie (because eff that guy)
Every Baz Luhrman movie
Every Luc Besson movie
Every Woody Allen movie
Forrest Gump


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

embee said:


> Love Actually



That one is very hit or miss for me. I like a few of the vignettes, especially the jaded, old rock star. His awful version of "Christmas Is All Around" is a holiday favorite of mine.


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## Professor Murder (Dec 2, 2020)

I had some strong reactions and fought back an impulse to defend several of these. However, I stopped myself because in the end, the opinions are deviations from the norm and I would expect that the poster gets a lot of flack for not liking what is widely accepted as enjoyed by many. I think people should be able to take a step back and allow people to like what they like and to dislike what they dislike. i only feel one needs to wade in where there is some clear, morally defunct motivation for the opinion, such as avowed racism or some other form of bigotry.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> That one is very hit or miss for me. I like a few of the vignettes, especially the jaded, old rock star. His awful version of "Christmas Is All Around" is a holiday favorite of mine.




 Oh damn the wife is gonna watch that soon. Every year.


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> When you’re listing pretty much everything, the common denominator probably isn’t them!



Correct. I don't have patience for many tv shows. And @Snarf Zagyg may have hit the nail on the head, though I've never thought that I might have an aversion to violence. I enjoy certain violent movies (Conan), but dislike modern violence, war violence, and violence against Innocents.


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Oh damn the wife is gonna watch that soon. Every year.



My wife has the DVD ready to go after I get home from work today. I feel your pain.


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## Umbran (Dec 2, 2020)

Sin City - I recognize it for an excellently crafted piece of art... that I just find ugly.

Most of American Horror Story - though their 1984 series was a hoot, and I set is aside from the others.  I am picky about horror, in general.  

South Park.  Just no, thank you.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> My wife has the DVD ready to go after I get home from work today. I feel your pain.




 Yeah she has the DVD. Mentioned it last night. 

 Nooooooooloo

 Retrogaming time I've dug out the PSP and GBA to play Megadrive/Genesis RPGs.


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## trappedslider (Dec 2, 2020)

Terry Pratchett.. tried reading Discworld.. gave up...it's just not my thing

EDIT: same with league of extraordinary gentlemen, it started out as interesting but then felt like it became a way for Moore to rant about what he didn't like in modern media.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> Terry Pratchett.. tried reading Discworld.. gave up...it's just not my thing



Which book did you try? He changes so much over the decades that it might as well be different authors. I can’t get through his first few, but luckily it’s not a single sequential story.


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## TwoSix (Dec 2, 2020)

Nothing, really.  I like pretty much everything.  Most of my contrary opinions are about things I liked that most people don't.


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## payn (Dec 2, 2020)

embee said:


> Every Paul Voehoeven movie



I won't buy that for a dollar.


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## delericho (Dec 2, 2020)

Pretty much anything in the "watch people play D&D" genre.


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## trappedslider (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> Which book did you try? He changes so much over the decades that it might as well be different authors. I can’t get through his first few, but luckily it’s not a single sequential story.



​The Colour of Magic​


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## Nilbog (Dec 2, 2020)

Breath of the Wild.  i so want to love this game, it has all the elements but for some reason I just can't get into it


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## embee (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Yeah she has the DVD. Mentioned it last night.
> 
> Nooooooooloo
> 
> Retrogaming time Ive dug out the PSP and GBA to lay Megadrive/Genesis RPGs.




I'm Jewish and grew up in the 80s. My wife knows better than to try to get me to watch Christmas movies, which I almost universally detest, unless they have a sufficiently high body count. 

And it also goes for very special episodes of anything - like Arnold and Willis discovering that people with disabilities are actually human, Willow discovering that drugs are bad, Alex discovering the hidden danger of taking speed, Mike Seaver and Boner learning that drugs are bad, Fonzie discovering that life isn't all beer and skittles for blind people, Tim Taylor lecturing his kids about drugs being bad (in spite of Tim Allen's history of drug trafficking), Jessie discovers the hidden danger of taking speed, and that episode of TNG where Wesley discovers that drugs are bad even in the 24th Century.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

delericho said:


> Pretty much anything in the "watch people play D&D" genre.




 This I can handle videos of people talking about D&D but avoid the playing videos.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> ​The Colour of Magic​



Big text!

Yeah, that was his first. I don’t like it either. Not even the same type of book as the rhythm he later settled into. Never got to the end of it. But it changes massively as he figures out what sort of book he wants to write. He wrote so many and some are awesome and others aren’t.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 2, 2020)

embee said:


> , Willow discovering that drugs are bad,




When I read that, I thought you were talking about Season 6 of Buffy!


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

Think I read Discworld and left it at that.


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## trappedslider (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> Big text!
> 
> Yeah, that was his first. I don’t like it either. Not even the same type of book as the rhythm he later settled into. Never got to the end of it. But it changes massively as he figures out what sort of book he wants to write. He wrote so many and some are awesome and others aren’t.



Any recommendations? I'm willing to give it another shot.


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## embee (Dec 2, 2020)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> When I read that, I thought you were talking about Season 6 of Buffy!



Indeed I was. Magic is the most insidious drug of all...

EXCEPT FOR SPEED!

Part of my "Joss Whedon is grotesquely overrated" belief.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

embee said:


> Indeed I was.
> 
> Part of my "Joss Whedon is grotesquely overrated" belief.




 I think he's overated but still good. 

 Firefly was awesome. 

 He's a lot better than other hacks like JJ Abrams.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Think I read Discworld and left it at that



Well after 41 books I don’t blame you. But he kinda made that decision for you.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 2, 2020)

embee said:


> Indeed I was.
> 
> Part of my "Joss Whedon is grotesquely overrated" belief.




I will totally go to the mat for season 6 of Buffy. 

I mean .... bored now? Skin?

(I'm not going to put in the gif. This is a family website.)


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> Well after 41 books I don’t blame you. But he kinda made that decision for you.




 I liked it but it didn't grab me enough to go further. 

 I had an older friend at the time basically recomming and supplying a lot of Fantasy and that's when I was reading Eddings, Feist, Shannara, Hobbit, Tad Williams etc. 

 Didn't dislike it just didn't love it shrugs. Didn't do it for me.

 Gene Wolfe bored me senseless.


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## prabe (Dec 2, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> Any recommendations? I'm willing to give it another shot.



What the Pratchett fans I know (including me) have taken to recommending is to start with "Guards! Guards!" It's the first book about Ankh-Morpork's Nightwatch, introduces lots of new characters.


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

embee said:


> Willow discovering that drugs are bad






Snarf Zagyg said:


> When I read that, I thought you were talking about Season 6 of Buffy!



And here I thought you were talking about the escapades of Warwick Davis and Val Kilmer.


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## innerdude (Dec 2, 2020)

This is going to hard to explain, but it's top-of-the-mind awareness for me right now ----

Tomb Raider


But maybe not in the way you think.

So, I'm just finishing the 2013 reboot of Tomb Raider . . . . Yeah, I know, it's been 7 years, so sue me. I'm a mid-40s family man with a career in financial technology, it's not like I have all the time in the world to game these days.  

And there's just so much wrong with this game --- the completely out-of-context, over-the-top violence of the protagonist. The rampant misogyny evidenced in the deplorable plot. The entire lack of enough actual, you know, _tombs_ to explore.

Despite my age, I never got into the "original" Tomb Raider games (basically, TR:1 through TR:6) back in the late '90s, mostly because I never owned a PlayStation and the PC versions were kind of crap. 


But I completely fell in love with the "minor reboot" versions that came out in the mid-2000s --- Tomb Raider: Legend, Tomb Raider: Anniversary, and Tomb Raider: Underworld (though Underworld was a total rush job with a million things to nitpick). 


However, my enjoyment was never really about the character of Lara Croft as protagonist. I liked the games because they strongly emphasized exploration as their primary function. The fighting/violence, while still present, was de-emphasized and mostly in the background.

So it's one of those things where if someone were to ask me, "Do you like Tomb Raider?" I kind of have to respond with lots of caveats and provisos. 

"Well, yes, but really only this one, small, niche part of the entire franchise, basically 2 (or 2.5) of the video games that came along in the middle of its run. The first two movies were amusingly forgettable at best and laughable at worst. The third movie (2018) was a little better, but still wasted most of its initial promise with an absolutely horrible last 1/3 of the film. I don't really care about any of the games prior to 2006, and don't really care about any of them after 2013. But, yeah, I guess I still sort of like Tomb Raider?"


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Yeah she has the DVD. Mentioned it last night.
> 
> Nooooooooloo
> 
> Retrogaming time I've dug out the PSP and GBA to play Megadrive/Genesis RPGs.



Mine will want to watch it, but then spend most of the time on her phone watching dog videos ... which is what happened last night during "Christmas with the Kranks."  
I don't particularly like this time of year. I don't feel festive. I don't want to hang out with my family or decorate. Just let it pass.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

innerdude said:


> This is going to hard to explain, but it's top-of-the-mind awareness for me right now ----
> 
> Tomb Raider
> 
> ...




I liked the new Tomb Raiders but not the old ones so go figure. 

 Lara's over the top death scenes a bit brutal though.


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## Dave Goff (Dec 2, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Sin City - I recognize it for an excellently crafted piece of art... that I just find ugly.



This is a thing for me- I often can recognize the hows and whys of something being great, and yet it still holds no interest to me whatsoever. Sin City is a great example.

And the other side applies as well- I recognize Supernatural is terrible, and yet I watched the whole damn thing. I know it's bad but that means I don't have much in the way of expectations while watching it.


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2020)

innerdude said:


> So it's one of those things where if someone were to ask me, "Do you like Tomb Raider?" I kind of have to respond with lots of caveats and provisos.
> 
> "Well, yes, but really only this one, small, niche part of the entire franchise, basically 2 (or 2.5) of the video games that came along in the middle of its run. The first two movies were amusingly forgettable at best and laughable at worst. The third movie (2018) was a little better, but still wasted most of its initial promise with an absolutely horrible last 1/3 of the film. I don't really care about any of the games prior to 2006, and don't really care about any of them after 2013. But, yeah, I guess I still sort of like Tomb Raider?"



This is how I feel about being a fan of Star Wars. I end up loving a few movies while disliking much of the rest. It's hard to be a fan of something and ... well, being discerning about what you like and not loving EVERYTHING about the franchise.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> I liked it but it didn't grab me enough to go further.



There’s no book called Discworld. What did you read?

I mean, I didn’t get on with the Clone Wars cartoon, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like Star Wars. It’s all different.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> There’s no book called Discworld. What did you read?
> 
> I mean, I didn’t get on with the Clone Wars cartoon, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like Star Wars. It’s all different.




 I think it was his first one. Read it circa 1993 maybe 94.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> I think it was his first one. Read it circa 1993 maybe 94.



The Colour of Magic? Yeah, same story. That book isn’t good. Try a different one. There’s 40 of them!


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## innerdude (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> This is how I feel about being a fan of Star Wars. I end up loving a few movies while disliking much of the rest. It's hard to be a fan of something and ... well, being discerning about what you like and not loving EVERYTHING about the franchise.




I need my Slack icons --- :1000%: :truestory:

Completely, totally relate. I'm much the same with Star Wars. Like . . . I think I've finally come to the conclusion, that I just really don't care about Anakin Skywalker. Like, at all. His whole story of how he "became" Darth Vader is the least interesting elements of the entire franchise. I simply do . . . not . . . care.

So that immediately removes Episodes 1-3, and all of Clone Wars from "Star Wars stuff Innerdude cares about."

Original trilogy, obviously still a big thumbs up.

At first watch, the "Disney" trilogy was mildly entertaining, but they don't hold up at all under the scrutiny of a 2nd or 3rd viewing. Force Awakens is still kind of a fun romp, if utterly derivative, but I've rapidly soured on Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker. Considering the history, lore, and available material they had to work with, Last Jedi and RoS represent the worst sci-fi filmmaking per dollar spent in cinematic history.

I don't really care about most of the "Old Republic" era stuff. When did the first KOTOR come out, 2002? 2003? Yep, started it three times, never finished it.

I couldn't care less about any of the Star Wars MMORPGs.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Thrawn novel trilogy. I enjoyed some of the "extended universe" novels --- the Jedi Academy trilogy and the Black Fleet Crisis were decent. The Coruscant Nights trilogy is my favorite Star Wars novel series, and it only involves a single original trilogy character, and even that only tagentially.

The Mandalorian and Rebels are both awesome. My 3 oldest daughters love both shows. 

Any and all of the Kyle Katarn video games (Dark Forces / Jedi Knight / Jedi Outcast / Jedi Academy) are awesome.

And other than Rogue One, Jedi: Fallen Order is the best thing to happen to the Star Wars universe since the Empire Strikes Back.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

innerdude said:


> I need my Slack icons --- :1000%: :truestory:
> 
> Completely, totally relate. I'm much the same with Star Wars. Like . . . I think I've finally come to the conclusion, that I just really don't care about Anakin Skywalker. Like, at all. His whole story of how he "became" Darth Vader is the least interesting elements of the entire franchise. I simply do . . . not . . . care.
> 
> ...




 Jedi Academy and Black Fleet crisis aren't that well regarded they're OK there's a lot worse. Enjoyed them at the time. 

 Thrawn trilogy is really popular amount legends crowd. 

 It's much like anything legends or the new cannon is a mixed bag. Most of the good EU stuff doesn't revolve around the Skywalker's the Thrawn Trilogy/Duplogy the odd one out. 

 I think I like Rebels better than The Mandalorian because season 1 was spotty. Rebels is consistent right through out. If Mandalorian keeps up it's quality though it will displace Rebels. 

Might be biased though did Rebels and Mando rewatch liked Rebels even more.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Jedi Academy and Black Fleet crisis aren't that well regarded they're OK there's a lot worse. Enjoyed them at the time.
> 
> Thrawn trilogy is really popular amount legends crowd.
> 
> ...



Eh. Rebels is pretty dire. Lots of bouncy people.


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## Ace (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> In addition to the Clone Wars: Supernatural, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Bride, Critical Role, The Fifth Element, Unbreakable, the entire Kevin Smith filmography, the entire Quentin Tarantino filmography, the Matrix movies, Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Fantastic Beasts series, Sherlock, American Horror Story, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, The Witcher (tv series), Godfather/Scarface/Goodfellas/Sopranos gangster/mafia-type media.




I kind of agree with this list caveat I adore the Princess Bride and Labyrinth,  I liked Bebop and   the Witcher and Fantastic Beasts were meh, not terrible.

I'm going to try Supernatural at some point though. I just haven't been able to watch an entire episode.


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## MNblockhead (Dec 2, 2020)

I try to avoid reading much about movies or series that seem interest to me. Even if a work is not oversold, even it if deserves the praise it gets, there is a natural inclination to feel it didn't live up to the hype. I like to immerse myself and get drawn into movies, shows, and books. At the same time, I've reached the point in my life that I will not finish a book, movie, or TV series just because I started it. There is so much to do and enjoy in life that I don't see the point in forcing myself to finish entertainment that I'm not enjoying. 

Very few video games hold my interest any more. 

I'm conflicted about Jack Vance's Dying Earth Series. I actually read the entire series so I liked it enough, but I don't get the hype. Nostalgia I guess. 

The TV series _24_.  Despite so many people telling me how great it was, I just couldn't get into it. 

_Breaking Bad. _Watched a few episodes but wasn't drawn enough into it to make the investment of time in watching the entire series.

Some recent series I started and stopped:

_Dragons Dogma.  _Stopped watching less than halfway through the first episode. 

_Blood of Zeus.  _Watched the first three and never felt interested enough to continue. 

_Lucifer. _Watched a few episodes as the premise was entertaining but just couldn't get into it.

_The Last Kingdom. _I feel like I should like it, but couldn't get into it. 

There are a lot more series I started watching and enjoyed at first but stopped watching after a season or two. But that is not really in the scope of this thread.


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## Ace (Dec 2, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Sin City - I recognize it for an excellently crafted piece of art... that I just find ugly.
> 
> Most of American Horror Story - though their 1984 series was a hoot, and I set is aside from the others.  I am picky about horror, in general.
> 
> South Park.  Just no, thank you.



Yep. There are one or two South park episodes, mainly the Underpants Gnomes but you can keep the rest.


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## innerdude (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> Eh. Rebels is pretty dire. Lots of bouncy people.




LOL, I love Rebels but can't totally argue with you on that. 5 seasons, and they never fixed the weird/bizarre animations for the way characters run.

And as far as South Park goes, other than the World of Warcraft episode from season 10, it pretty much jumped the shark halfway through season 4.


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## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

innerdude said:


> LOL, I love Rebels but can't totally argue with you on that. 5 seasons, and they never fixed the weird/bizarre animations for the way characters run.



Everybody can also bounce 20 feet into the air. It’s like everybody is a Jedi. And the Jedi are all cartoon Spider-Man.


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## Ace (Dec 2, 2020)

embee said:


> Everything by JJ Abrams
> About half of Joss Whedon's output
> Everything by the Wachowski Siblings other than "The Matrix"
> Gone With The Wind
> ...



I have to say its nice to have a polite but hones disdain thread that has managed to not breakdown into anything personal. Its the very epitome of _De gustibus non est disputandum_

Also agree with much of this list. Whedon wise I liked Buffy, Angel and Firefly though. Dollhouse was really sick like a twisted  power and worse  fantasy , SVU from the perps POV and while I like Eliza Dushku, that show was way past my moral event horizon. 

Gone with Wind and the Ten Commandments are great movies but only as history. They are are terribly dated in every respect. I probably wouldn't watch them or Ben Hur again.

Juno and Gump were fine, one watch only. 

As for Mad Mel? I don't give a fig about his politics or religion, Still  nothing on his list that is worth a rewatch except maybe Mad Max  and Lethal Weapon.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Dec 2, 2020)

The first thing that comes to mind is the Godfather trilogy. I can see that they are expertly crafted movies, but I just don't like them. I don't like a lot of mobster movies. I couldn't make it through the Sopranos either and I just get irritated thinking about Scarface.


----------



## Eltab (Dec 2, 2020)

Not long after _Titanic_ set the record for most $20M weekends in the theater, my sister-in-law talked my wife and I into coming over and watching it via pay-per-view.  

I was glad I brought a book.  
How did those two modern teenagers get aboard the most high-class vessel available from 100 years ago?

I subsequently re-read "Collision Course" and borrowed every other _Andrea Doria_ book I could find in my Public Library.  I thought (and still think) I can write a better movie script _story_ ...


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 2, 2020)

Viking Bastard said:


> The first thing that comes to mind is the Godfather trilogy.




Usually when this topic comes, this is the first thing that springs to mind.  I just never liked them or got into them.

Other beloved items I just can't get into?

Dune (always puts me to sleep.  All that inner monologue...blech)
Big Lebowski
Never saw an episode of Cowboy bebop nor do I want to
Supernatural after season 4.  It totally soured on me after it went from monster hunting to only religion
Meh on Critical role.  They are great people, I just don't find much entertainment in watching them.


----------



## pukunui (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> The Colour of Magic? Yeah, same story. That book isn’t good. Try a different one. There’s 40 of them!



I'll second this. I made the mistake of trying to get my cousin into Discworld by having him start with _The Colour of Magic _(since it's the first one).

I would recommend the Guards series (on which the upcoming The Watch series is very loosely based). My favorite Discworld novel is _Thud!_, but I think you'd need to read a number of the other Discworld novels to truly appreciate its greatness.

Also _Interesting Times _and _The Last Continent _are good.

I'd also recommend the Tiffany Aching series. Technically they're for "younger" readers but I find them just as enjoyable to read for myself. _I Shall Wear Midnight _is the best. Don't bother with the last one.




delericho said:


> Pretty much anything in the "watch people play D&D" genre.





Zardnaar said:


> This I can handle videos of people talking about D&D but avoid the playing videos.



Man, I can't even handle videos of people _talking_ about D&D let alone playing it. I think I just don't really like watching videos of people talking about anything really. I can read a lot faster than people can talk, so I prefer text to video. When I absolutely have to watch a talky video, I tend to speed it up.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion (Dec 2, 2020)

For me, it is not so much everything by a particular director or writer, or a particular genre, it is more what happens to the main characters at the end of a movie. If all the main characters are killed off, then I won't rewatch it. If a main character is killed off just for the shock value, or as a "lesson" for the lead character, I won't watch it again. Rogue One is a good movie, but none of the main characters survived, so I won't watch it a second time. The first two Riddick movies are decent, but they kill off his co-star/love interest in a meaningless death at the end of both, just because they could, so I won't watch them again either. There are others that fit this theme, but those are the ones that always come to mind for me.


----------



## innerdude (Dec 2, 2020)

Critical Role is an odd one, because it's so front-and-center in our hobby, and in no small part responsible for the increasing popularity and legitimization of RPGs as a form of entertainment.

But I personally would never consider it "front row," must-make-an-appointment-to-watch media.  At best it's something I turn on when I'm doing some mundane data scrubbing in Excel/SQL and just need something to slightly distract me while I do it. (That's actually the only context in which I've consumed Critical Role).


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> Eh. Rebels is pretty dire. Lots of bouncy people.




Thought you didn't watch animated?


----------



## innerdude (Dec 2, 2020)

Nilbog said:


> Breath of the Wild.  i so want to love this game, it has all the elements but for some reason I just can't get into it




Oooh, this is a good one for me too --- anything Zelda.

Like, as a kid, I watched friends play the original 8-bit Zelda for hours uncounted . . . . but never found myself "jonesing" to play it on my own. A few years back I messed around with a Nintendo 64 emulator and got a hold of a ROM of Ocarina of Time, which is widely regarded as one of the top 5 video games of all time.

Played it for maybe 30, 60 minutes, never turned it on again. I just didn't connect with it.





Enevhar Aldarion said:


> For me, it is not so much everything by a particular director or writer, or a particular genre, it is more what happens to the main characters at the end of a movie. If all the main characters are killed off, then I won't rewatch it. If a main character is killed off just for the shock value, or as a "lesson" for the lead character, I won't watch it again. Rogue One is a good movie, but none of the main characters survived, so I won't watch it a second time. The first two Riddick movies are decent, but they kill off his co-star/love interest in a meaningless death at the end of both, just because they could, so I won't watch them again either. There are others that fit this theme, but those are the ones that always come to mind for me.




You're in good company with my wife, here. Pretty much any time a protagonist dies, she's like, "Nope. I'm out."


----------



## billd91 (Dec 2, 2020)

Peter Jackson's Hobbit trilogy (it's full of trash action filler)
Star Wars Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith (Phantom menace gets a narrow pass because of an awesome light saber fight - best in the trilogy)
Supernatural
Any of the lame Hallmark channel Canadian/American collaborations like "Good Witch" and "When Calls the Heart" even though my wife likes them (and I usually like watching TV with her).


----------



## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Thought you didn't watch animated?



It's why I don't. I didn't arrive at that viewpoint in a vacuum. I watched it and it was crap.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 2, 2020)

Morrus said:


> It's why I don't. I didn't arrive at that viewpoint in a vacuum. I watched it and it was crap.




 Fair enough might not be for you shrugs.


----------



## Morrus (Dec 2, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Fair enough might not be for you shrugs.



I think that's what I said.


----------



## pukunui (Dec 2, 2020)

Retreater said:


> I've proudly avoided watching "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" since its release. I've heard it's great, but it's just more satisfying to tell people I haven't seen it than to actually watch it.



While I have watched that movie (and enjoyed it), this is how I felt about Harry Potter for the longest time. I refused to read the books back in the 90s and refused to watch the movies as they came out - because it was satisfying to tell people I hadn't ever read them or watched them.

But then my oldest daughter decided she liked Harry Potter ... and it was all over for me. I've now read all the books and seen all the movies.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 2, 2020)

pukunui said:


> While I have watched that movie (and enjoyed it), this is how I felt about Harry Potter for the longest time. I refused to read the books back in the 90s and refused to watch the movies as they came out - because it was satisfying to tell people I hadn't ever read them or watched them.



comments like this remind me of this xkcd:


----------



## Blackrat (Dec 3, 2020)

Game of Thrones. When it began, I found it terribly boring with lackluster writing and mediocre acting. I gave up on it after three episodes. Then, as the last season finished, I gave it a second chance. I binged it all. It was still terribly boring with poor writing and mediocre acting. There were some good parts but as a whole, way overrated and waste of time.


----------



## pukunui (Dec 3, 2020)

I don't generally keep a list of the things I can't get into ... but one thing that springs to mind is _The Nightmare Before Christmas_. I have a Halloween-obsessed friend who always raves about how great it is. Last holiday season, my daughters and I tried to watch it and could only get through about the first third before we decided it wasn't to our taste.



Blackrat said:


> Game of Thrones. When it began, I found it terribly boring with lackluster writing and mediocre acting. I gave up on it after three episodes. Then, as the last season finished, I gave it a second chance. I binged it all. It was still terribly boring with poor writing and mediocre acting. There were some good parts but as a whole, way overrated and waste of time.



Never having read the books (I still haven't), I really liked the premise of the White Walkers from episode 1, but was disappointed that they didn't really show up again for the rest of that season. "Hard Home" was the high point of the series, as far as I'm concerned.

Out of curiosity: all you folks who say you couldn't get into shows like _Game of Thrones _or _Sherlock _or whatever ... what are some examples of shows you _do_ like and that you consider to have good writing / acting / etc? This is all subjective, right, but it could be useful to have some means of comparison.


----------



## Davies (Dec 3, 2020)

_Guardians of the Galaxy_.


----------



## Gammadoodler (Dec 3, 2020)

pukunui said:


> I don't generally keep a list of the things I can't get into ... but one thing that springs to mind is _The Nightmare Before Christmas_. I have a Halloween-obsessed friend who always raves about how great it is. Last holiday season, my daughters and I tried to watch it and could only get through about the first third before we decided it wasn't to our taste.
> 
> 
> Never having read the books (I still haven't), I really liked the premise of the White Walkers from episode 1, but was disappointed that they didn't really show up again for the rest of that season. "Hard Home" was the high point of the series, as far as I'm concerned.
> ...



I feel this regarding Nightmare before Christmas. I feel this way about most anything from Tim Burton. It's like I see what you're doing here, I get why folks like it, but it's not for me.


----------



## pukunui (Dec 3, 2020)

Davies said:


> _Guardians of the Galaxy_.



I _love_ both of these movies! (And I'm not a big fan of the MCU.)


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

pukunui said:


> I _love_ both of these movies! (And I'm not a big fan of the MCU.)




Loved the first one liked the second one. Not a massive MCU fan.


----------



## Davies (Dec 3, 2020)

pukunui said:


> I _love_ both of these movies! (And I'm not a big fan of the MCU.)



Why did you feel the need to share this in a "I _don't_ like this supposedly great thing" thread?


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

Davies said:


> Why did you feel the need to share this in a "I _don't_ like this supposedly great thing" thread?




 Because you have to prove subjective opinions online are wrong duh!!!


 Here's another one of mine. Superhero movies don't really do it for me. Individually some are good in their own right. Might be a cultural thing (non American).


----------



## Retreater (Dec 3, 2020)

pukunui said:


> Out of curiosity: all you folks who say you couldn't get into shows like _Game of Thrones _or _Sherlock _or whatever ... what are some examples of shows you _do_ like and that you consider to have good writing / acting / etc? This is all subjective, right, but it could be useful to have some means of comparison.



I didn't like GoT or Sherlock, but I wouldn't say it was so much the writing or acting so much as the themes. I also like more episodic content instead of feeling like I'm watching a movie that lasts for literal days.
Series I do like include Cobra Kai, Stranger Things, and The Mandalorian.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

Better Call Saul. Loved Breaking Bad but lost track of BCS.


----------



## pukunui (Dec 3, 2020)

Davies said:


> Why did you feel the need to share this in a "I _don't_ like this supposedly great thing" thread?



I don't know.



Retreater said:


> I didn't like GoT or Sherlock, but I wouldn't say it was so much the writing or acting so much as the themes. I also like more episodic content instead of feeling like I'm watching a movie that lasts for literal days.
> Series I do like include Cobra Kai, Stranger Things, and The Mandalorian.



Yes, I'll admit something I didn't like about _Game of Thrones _was the way most episodes of a season were just setting up for the big payoff at the end. That kind of television can get frustrating, especially when you can't binge watch it. I like shows that have a mix of standalone stories with an overarching narrative. I think _The Mandalorian _does a pretty good job of this, although the overarching narrative is perhaps a bit too thin at times. _The X-Files _did a good job of it at first as well, though I think it had kind of lost its way by the end and sort of petered out with a disappointing ending.


----------



## ccs (Dec 3, 2020)

Speaking of the _X-Files_....
Yeah, that one I never really got what everyone else saw in it as a series.  Still don't.

_Joker_.
It came out & everyones like "it's sooo good!" 
Never quite got around to seeing it in the theatres (always something better to see/do or it played at inconvenient times).
So sitting around this spring under Covid lockdown I streamed it.
_That's it?_  That's what everyone was all excited about??   Yeah, definitely won't watch again.


----------



## Campbell (Dec 3, 2020)

I cannot seem to get into the Mandalorian.  It just feels so plotted to me. Great cinematography and some decent acting, but the characters just feel like the writers' playthings and not like people. Game of Thrones was similar to me.


----------



## pukunui (Dec 3, 2020)

I wasn’t able to finish the _Wheel of Time _series. Got too repetitive with too many samey characters and too many minor characters who got their own chapters and so on. I think I only made it halfway through book four.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

pukunui said:


> I wasn’t able to finish the _Wheel of Time _series. Got too repetitive with too many samey characters and too many minor characters who got their own chapters and so on. I think I only made it halfway through book four.




 I made it to 7 and gave up. Just read the wiki to find out what happened. 

 Didn't end up caring about any of the characters.


----------



## Ulfgeir (Dec 3, 2020)

Some of the stuff I just can't stand..

* The Big Bang Theory.  I absolutely hate that kind of sitcoms. And no, despite it supposedly being about nerds, doesn't make it better. It is still laughing at the nerd, not with them.

* Southpark. I watched the first season, but I found it lacking. Didn't like the artstyle nor the scatological humour.

* The old man and the Sea. We had to read this for an English-course I took at university. Must say it is the most boring and overrated book I have ever read.  The myth about Hemingway > his work.

I have tons of others, but they have been pushed to the back of my mind so thoroughly that you need an archaeological expedition to find them.


----------



## pukunui (Dec 3, 2020)

OK here’s a controversial one: the D&D cartoon.

I was born in ‘81 and didn’t discover D&D until I was 12 or 13. I borrowed a friend’s DVD box set recently and tried watching it with the girls. Wasn’t impressed and gave the DVDs back without bothering to watch the rest.

I’m assuming it’s so popular because of the nostalgia factor?


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

pukunui said:


> OK here’s a controversial one: the D&D cartoon.
> 
> I was born in ‘81 and didn’t discover D&D until I was 12 or 13. I borrowed a friend’s DVD box set recently and tried watching it with the girls. Wasn’t impressed and gave the DVDs back without bothering to watch the rest.
> 
> I’m assuming it’s so popular because of the nostalgia factor?




 80s kids. 

 I liked it but can barely remember the details. I was born 78. 

 But yeah 4 years makes a big difference, I can remember stuff my wife can't and she's an 80s kid. 

 Alot of stuff has aged terribly eg Transformers which is a glorified toy ad (that's still better somehow than Michael Bey movies).

 I remember the 80s but wasn't an adult so miss a few things that older people didn't.


----------



## Neonchameleon (Dec 3, 2020)

Only thinking of things a lot of people like:

_Rogue One  - _the bits that are good aren't original and the bits that are original aren't good. It's carried by the tone of a war film and more Empire Strikes Back porn than JJ Abrams uses of ANH in TFA
_The Big Bang Theory _- I've heard it described as a "Geek minstrel show"
_The Avengers films -_ I've a soft spot for the first. But they are a confusing mess with too many characters and contrived storytelling. I've special hate for the way Thanos is never shown to be wrong, just less powerful
_Joker_ - another film where the bits that are good aren't original and the bits that are original aren't good.
_South Park -_ I didn't like edgy 90s nihilism even back in the 90s. And it's aged badly.
_Gone with the Wind _- I'm not sure which is worse; how little I like the leads or how little I like the setting
_Tiger King_ - car crash TV about a bunch of horrible people
_The Mandalorean_ - I've mixed feelings about this one. It's weapons grade nostalgia (hey, I own Smash Ultimate) with a good premise, good acting, and about as much progression as an 80s TV series. Each episode is fine as long as you watch them a week apart and don't binge.

Also there are a number of things where I'd recommend people see one work by the author and stop there. Joss Whedon springs to mind (I'll recommend Buffy S1-5), as does JJ Abrams (for me his best is Alias S1-2 but that's also the first I saw), as does Aaron Sorkin (although _The West Wing_ really does not hold up) and Stephen Moffatt. 

Dishonourable mentions for being targeted nerd porn (although without onscreen sex): _Chuck _and _The West Wing_. I can watch both of them but am well aware I'm being pandered to and it makes them feel slightly icky.

On preview the parts of Transformers that aged well were the UK Gen 1 comic series (which is pretty intricate and continuity heavy) and the original movie. The one where there are actual consequences, starting with the death of Optimus Prime, callbacks, conceptual sci-fi like the Universal Greeting, and a discussion of leadership and how it means going forward in the face of adversity, complete with Devo's Dare To Be Stupid as a theme song. Also I didn't realise the D&D cartoon was popular.


----------



## Umbran (Dec 3, 2020)

Recalled a couple of others..

_Warehouse 13_ - This should have been a no-brainer for me.  Saul Rubinek as a quirky curmudgeon watching over the collection of weird supernatural and super-science artifacts?  Sold!  Unfortunately, the casual misogyny by one of the main characters was too annoying to watch.

_Battlestar Galactica_ - I watched for a while, but two things got me - alien (robot) baby that can cure cancer and... the total despondancy of it all.  The main characters never caught a win, ever, and they did not establish a solid justification for them to not just use their own sidearms to blow their own brains out.  I can accept dark and dire shows, but this was grimdark to the point of my having to gird my emotions up to watch each episode... so I stopped.

I'll join the list of folks who couldn't take _Big Bang Theory_.  I'm okay with comedy poking fun at nerds and nerdy things (like, say, Galaxy Quest) when it is done from a position of caring, but BBT wasn't.


----------



## Sepulchrave II (Dec 3, 2020)

Every superhero movie since _X-men_ in 2000.
Every franchise sequel ever made (honorable exceptions: ESB & Godfather II); even Terminator 2 & Aliens are annoying to me now.

Edit: Every sitcom ever, except _Fawlty Towers_. Just hate the format.


----------



## Neonchameleon (Dec 3, 2020)

One more:

_Ocean's 11 - _A well written and acted heist movie with a great cast doing a heist movie should have been absolutely my thing. But set one EMP off downtown and you're not a heist crew - you're a completely callous set of terrorists.


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 3, 2020)

pukunui said:


> I wasn’t able to finish the _Wheel of Time _series. Got too repetitive with too many samey characters and too many minor characters who got their own chapters and so on. I think I only made it halfway through book four.




Me either.  I stopped midway through book four I think as well.  When you're spending 50 pages describing something that happens in 5 pages in every other book, it drags on and on.


Umbran said:


> _Battlestar Galactica_ - I watched for a while, but two things got me - alien (robot) baby that can cure cancer and... the total despondancy of it all.  The main characters never caught a win, ever, and they did not establish a solid justification for them to not just use their own sidearms to blow their own brains out.  I can accept dark and dire shows, but this was grimdark to the point of my having to gird my emotions up to watch each episode... so I stopped.



I liked season 1.  Then it dropped off fast for me.  Never finished the series.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 3, 2020)

Neonchameleon said:


> _Tiger King_ - car crash TV about a bunch of horrible people
> Aaron Sorkin (although _The West Wing_ really does not hold up)
> 
> Dishonourable mentions for being targeted nerd porn (although without onscreen sex): _Chuck _and _The West Wing_. I can watch both of them but am well aware I'm being pandered to and it makes them feel slightly icky.



Tiger King and the rest of so called reality tv.....makes me feel like i need a long shower.....I haven't watched chuck in over a few years despite owning the whole thing on DvD. The West Wing for the most part like you said didn't age well, thats why we tend to watch a few select episodes around here. Aaron's other hits The Newsroom and Sports Night didn't age other well either...ER also didn't age well, which is a shame since it had a number of good seasons.


Neonchameleon said:


> One more:
> 
> _Ocean's 11 - _A well written and acted heist movie with a great cast doing a heist movie should have been absolutely my thing. But set one EMP off downtown and you're not a heist crew - you're a completely callous set of terrorists.



The original (with the Rat Pack) had them knock out a substation instead of a 30 second blackout.


----------



## wicked cool (Dec 3, 2020)

Cant understand the BBT hate. Show is fantastic. After season1 it toned down the nerdiness. The guys play version of D&D, Multiple scifi guest stars, constant fantasy references, comics etc. One of the best comedies and I would say accurate

shows that I couldn't get into 
xfiles-mostly boring
the 100-just doesn't sound good
the dc universe shows-just awful
The new Who-Self destructing
supernatural-lot of these horror shows just don't have it
American horror-They get silly. The one on the missing colonists/descendants was some of the dumbest television ive seen
Nurse Ratchet-Nothing like the original character
Lovecraft country-Gave it a shot over free hbo weekend-Cool idea with poor execution. Seems silly
Westworld-Season1 was good but season 2 was awful and I haven't watched season 3 .



Walking Dead World beyond-WD is my guilty pleasure but I wont cry if it ever got cancelled as both it and FTWD are just ok however world beyond is dreadful with characters I don't care for and feels like a teen drama show with zombies. It is funny how the WD still gets good ratings. Really a sign of how bad television is     

The last kingdom-Show is decent but this show and Vikings is very overhyped. I bet 1/2 or more of the last kingdom popularity is the looks of the main character. I think if he was ugly then this show would be a show clinging to life


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 3, 2020)

wicked cool said:


> Cant understand the BBT hate. Show is fantastic. After season1 it toned down the nerdiness. The guys play version of D&D, Multiple scifi guest stars, constant fantasy references, comics etc. One of the best comedies and I would say accurate




I can only speak for myself naturally, and while I didn't hate the show, a turn off for me was how unrealistic and patronizing it was.  It was no different than literally every other TV show and movie out there in the context of "Male nerds can be average looking, but all female nerds have to be supermodels."  Arguably the least attractive female on that show that played a girlfriend at some point was Mayim, and she is still attractive.  All of the others (Kaley, Melissa, Laura, Kate, Aarti, Lauren, etc are all extremely attractive).  Kevin Sussman was the only average looking guy, and he was always an outlier friend and not part of the "main" group.  Putting glasses and a geeky t shirt on a good looking guy doesn't make them a nerd*.  Again, not an issue limited to this show, but every show.  I think Sussman and Posehn (only infrequently appearing) look like the people you'd see in a gaming store on any given day (and are gaming geeks in real life).  Are there good looking nerds?  Sure.  I'm one of them . But these shows always seem to _only _have models play the roles, especially for women, and that's always bothered me.   So to me, the representation was a big miss and kept me from truly relating.

*Edit Admittedly this gives me flashbacks of about 10 years ago, when geek started to become chic, and you saw all these super attractive people put on glasses and call themselves nerds or geeks without actually having any nerdy or geeky hobbies or interests, so I have a sour taste about it.


----------



## MarkB (Dec 3, 2020)

ccs said:


> Speaking of the _X-Files_....
> Yeah, that one I never really got what everyone else saw in it as a series.  Still don't.



I enjoyed the first few seasons, and was really interested in seeing what the underlying mystery hinted in various episodes would turn out to be. Until I figured out that the writers themselves had no clue, and were just throwing out hints and teasers without any real idea how to tie them up.

Likewise Alias.

Likewise Lost, though at least in that instance I managed to realise it during the first season.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 3, 2020)

MarkB said:


> I enjoyed the first few seasons, and was really interested in seeing what the underlying mystery hinted in various episodes would turn out to be. Until I figured out that the writers themselves had no clue, and were just throwing out hints and teasers without any real idea how to tie them up.
> 
> Likewise Alias.
> 
> Likewise Lost, though at least in that instance I managed to realise it during the first season.




The thing about the X-Files is this ...

As you are first watching it, you really love the interconnectedness of it. Which, for the time, was a BIG THING. In the 90s, they didn't really have the serialized story telling in TV like we do today. So you'd enjoy the great stand-alone episodes, but the "mythology" episodes were massive events.

But somewhere around, oh, season 5 and the alien rebels it all just collapsed in on itself. By that point it became obvious there was no plan, no end goal, and it wasn't going anywhere. 

In retrospect, it was a great series, with individual great episodes, but the mythology ... well, it just sucked. Either that, or it was a truly fascinating meta-commentary on how conspiracy theories eventually fall apart and make no sense.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Recalled a couple of others..
> 
> _Warehouse 13_ - This should have been a no-brainer for me.  Saul Rubinek as a quirky curmudgeon watching over the collection of weird supernatural and super-science artifacts?  Sold!  Unfortunately, the casual misogyny by one of the main characters was too annoying to watch.
> 
> ...




 Yeah had to force myself to finish Warehouse 13. 

 Saw Saul in Star Trek TNG. We kind of have a game when watching older shows. Spot the actor from a later show. 

 Terrible with names though, faces not so much.


----------



## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 3, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Yeah had to force myself to finish Warehouse 13.
> 
> Saw Saul in Star Trek TNG. We kind of have a game when watching older shows. Spot the actor from a later show.




Before I was cooking meth in New Mexico ....







I was a Space Captain!


----------



## Umbran (Dec 3, 2020)

Sacrosanct said:


> I can only speak for myself naturally, and while I didn't hate the show, a turn off for me was how unrealistic and patronizing it was.




Yeah.  Overall, there is more to being nerd-positive than referencing nerd culture.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Before I was cooking meth in New Mexico ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Heh yeah. We noticed it a lot with Stargate, Babylon 5 and Trek. 

 Alot of those actors turn up later in Warehouse 13/Continuum/Sanctuary/ Stargate Atlantis etc. 

 Colm Meany has been in everything. Trek, Stargate, Hell on Wheels. Actor who plays Q in trek turns up in Stargate iirc.


----------



## MarkB (Dec 3, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Heh yeah. We noticed it a lot with Stargate, Babylon 5 and Trek.
> 
> Alot of those actors turn up later in Warehouse 13/Continuum/Sanctuary/ Stargate Atlantis etc.
> 
> Colm Meany has been in everything. Trek, Stargate, Hell on Wheels. Actor who plays Q in trek turns up in Stargate iirc.



The big ones in Stargate for me are Ben Browder and Claudia Black from Farscape. Plus, of course, General Hammond (Don S. Davis) was in Twin Peaks.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

MarkB said:


> The big ones in Stargate for me are Ben Browder and Claudia Black from Farscape. Plus, of course, General Hammond (Don S. Davis) was in Twin Peaks.




 General Hammond was in the Highlander TV show.


----------



## Davies (Dec 3, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> General Hammond was in the Highlander TV show.



And X-Files. (He's Scully's dad.)


----------



## TheSword (Dec 3, 2020)

I’m making a list of the many people who have seriously dropped a notch in my estimation on account of having no taste or sense of humour! Rick and Morty? May god have mercy on your soul.

For me it’s Firefly... friends raved about it. I thought it was dire.

... and American Horror Story, and Hollywood, oh and Ratched...


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 3, 2020)

Davies said:


> And X-Files. (He's Scully's dad.)





 See it's a fun game.


----------



## Mad_Jack (Dec 3, 2020)

Oh hell,  I could start an entire thread about spotting actors in bit parts...  (Hmm, maybe I will someday...)


Assassin's Creed...  I started playing the first game, and it just didn't do it for me.  And I've never felt any inclination to try to get back into it or any of the later games.

 I also never got into the real-time resource management games, so I never really played Command & Conquer, Warcraft, Civilization, etc.
Or first-person shooters.

South Park never held much interest for me, as that's just not my type of humor - which also rules out pretty much all  Adam Sandler movies and most Jim Carey movies for me as well.

I never felt any need to watch The Big Lebowski or Big Bang Theory.

I'm one of those folks who watched _Joker_ and thought it was just meh.


----------



## Jack Daniel (Dec 4, 2020)

_Firefly _and _Red Dwarf. _Mostly because after _Farscape _got cancelled, we dedicated 'scapers were all jonesing for some good sci-fi, and everyone kept recommending these two series as tonal kindred spirits. They are not. So even though my wife loves _Red Dwarf _and made me watch all of it, I could never get into it. And I just don't get what's supposed to be so great about _Firefly _or _Serenity _at all. (This was also when I rewatched the original _Star Wars _trilogy and thought for the first time in my life, "Huh, maybe _Star Trek _is better than _Star Wars_ after all." Or maybe that's just what happens when you get older.)

I might also add _Babylon 5 _to that list, except that I couldn't stay awake through the first episode of _Babylon 5_.

2003's _Battlestar Galactica _just seems lab-grown to bug the crap out of me in every way as a fan of 1978's _Battlestar Galactica._

As a fan of _Star Trek _and _Star Trek: The Next Generation_, I find _Deep Space Nine _to be incredibly dull and dreary and _Voyager _to be just god-awful; but I dearly love _Enterprise _and will die on that hill.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 4, 2020)

Jack Daniel said:


> _Firefly _and _Red Dwarf. _Mostly because after _Farscape _got cancelled, we dedicated 'scapers were all jonesing for some good sci-fi, and everyone kept recommending these two series as tonal kindred spirits. They are not. So even though my wife loves _Red Dwarf _and made me watch all of it, I could never get into it. And I just don't get what's supposed to be so great about _Firefly _or _Serenity _at all. (This was also when I rewatched the original _Star Wars _trilogy and thought for the first time in my life, "Huh, maybe _Star Trek _is better than _Star Wars_ after all." Or maybe that's just what happens when you get older.)
> 
> I might also add _Babylon 5 _to that list, except that I couldn't stay awake through the first episode of _Babylon 5_.
> 
> ...




 Heh we're watching TNG. I'm liking it but the wife is quite liking it (we're not trekkies). I like DS9 more than her. 

 She liked Stargate SG1 as well and it's because she likes the exploration side of things and that carries over to TNG. 

 Skipped to season 3 though based on others advice.


----------



## Gladius Legis (Dec 4, 2020)

Red Dead Redemption 2. While the story and characters were certainly well done, the gameplay was some of the most poorly paced I've ever experienced in a video game.

The Last of Us. Found it a chore to play, and the characters all acting illogically while the game presents it as SERIOUS DRAMA sure doesn't help. Also, the main character is an irredeemable scumbag. Not at all interested in the sequel, either.

Also, can Game of Thrones even be considered great anymore? It's been a legitimately bad show for just as long (last 4 seasons) as it had been a good one (first 4). And that final season went beyond mere shark-jumping and into the territory of invalidating everything that ever happened in the show.


----------



## Gladius Legis (Dec 4, 2020)

Mad_Jack said:


> Assassin's Creed... I started playing the first game, and it just didn't do it for me. And I've never felt any inclination to try to get back into it or any of the later games.



The first game is very proof-of-concept. As such it is definitely repetitive and can get tedious. I would _at least_ play Assassin's Creed II before writing off the entire series.


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## Tonguez (Dec 4, 2020)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> *Labyrinth, Dark Crystal *I can see this. It was the 80s- it wasn't like there were a lot of options.




Excuse me! The 80s provided some of the greatest fantasy films in the repetoire


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## Snarf Zagyg (Dec 4, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Excuse me! The 80s provided some of the greatest fantasy films in the repetoire


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## Zardnaar (Dec 4, 2020)

Labyrinth is on Netflix now, I bought it on the PSP UMD.


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## Wishbone (Dec 6, 2020)

Firefly. I blame a friend forcing us to watch Serenity sans context and then trying to watch the series afterwards.


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## ccs (Dec 6, 2020)

Jack Daniel said:


> (This was also when I rewatched the original _Star Wars _trilogy and thought for the first time in my life, "Huh, maybe _Star Trek _is better than _Star Wars_ after all." Or maybe that's just what happens when you get older.)



No, what generally happens with SW/Trek is that at some point you realize that, despite sharing alot of elements (space ships, lasers, aliens, etc) they aren't really the same type of thing.


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## Stefano Rinaldelli (Dec 6, 2020)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Your aversion to violence ... well, it makes a lot of your choices (Tarantino, Gangster, GoT, even Matrix) make a LOT more sense.



Tarantino's are the less violent movies I've ever seen. Violence comes out completely ridiculed by Tarantino's movies.


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## Ryujin (Dec 6, 2020)

billd91 said:


> Peter Jackson's Hobbit trilogy (it's full of trash action filler)



Rather ironically, "... sort of stretched, like butter, scraped over too much bread.”


----------



## Stefano Rinaldelli (Dec 7, 2020)

Neonchameleon said:


> One more:
> 
> _Ocean's 11 - _A well written and acted heist movie with a great cast doing a heist movie should have been absolutely my thing. But set one EMP off downtown and you're not a heist crew - you're a completely callous set of terrorists.



Yes but... moral judgment and artistic evaluation are two different things at all... I mean I do not evaluate a movie or a film looking the adherency from what happens in the movie and what I think must happen in a morally perfect world.


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## Neonchameleon (Dec 7, 2020)

Stefano Rinaldelli said:


> Yes but... moral judgment and artistic evaluation are two different things at all... I mean I do not evaluate a movie or a film looking the adherency from what happens in the movie and what I think must happen in a morally perfect world.



I have no problem watching e.g. Robocop, or John Wick. But if in the middle of a random Pixar movie one of our protagonists were to start shooting realistic looking humans I'd be thrown right out of those films. It's genre breaking and not at all what I was expecting to see going in - in just the same way that setting off an EMP downtown did to me for Ocean's 11.

@Jack Daniel Babylon 5 starts slowly - and two of the worst four episodes in the entire series are on the first DVD.


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## amethal (Dec 7, 2020)

Neonchameleon said:


> @Jack Daniel Babylon 5 starts slowly - and two of the worst four episodes in the entire series are on the first DVD.



I'm currently working my way through Babylon 5, having never seen it before, and I'm enjoying even the bad episodes. Seasons 3 and 4 (so far) have been really good. (Although, from things I've read I have fairly low expectations for season 5.)


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## Neonchameleon (Dec 7, 2020)

amethal said:


> I'm currently working my way through Babylon 5, having never seen it before, and I'm enjoying even the bad episodes. Seasons 3 and 4 (so far) have been really good. (Although, from things I've read I have fairly low expectations for season 5.)



Season 3 is the highlight and season 4 is a little rushed but great.

Season 5 has three major arcs. One is great because more Londo/G'kar is always a good thing. One's OK. And one was moved to the cutting room floor when they compressed from 5 seasons to 4 - but when they got a fifth they filmed it anyway without it having the same context in the season arcs.


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## amethal (Dec 7, 2020)

Jack Daniel said:


> _Firefly _and _Red Dwarf. _Mostly because after _Farscape _got cancelled, we dedicated 'scapers were all jonesing for some good sci-fi, and everyone kept recommending these two series as tonal kindred spirits. They are not. So even though my wife loves _Red Dwarf _and made me watch all of it, I could never get into it.



I love Red Dwarf (well, seasons 2 to 6 anyway, although the much-maligned season 7 also had its moments) but it's nothing like Farscape so I can see why you might not like it. And being "forced" to watch comedy is probably not the best way to enjoy it.

It's also very British (which you appear not to be) so maybe the humour doesn't travel very well. I did once hear an American criticising Craig Charles for "putting on a silly accent" ...


----------



## Tonguez (Dec 7, 2020)

amethal said:


> I love Red Dwarf (well, seasons 2 to 6 anyway, although the much-maligned season 7 also had its moments) but it's nothing like Farscape so I can see why you might not like it. And being "forced" to watch comedy is probably not the best way to enjoy it.
> 
> It's also very British (which you appear not to be) so maybe the humour doesn't travel very well. I did once hear an American criticising Craig Charles for "putting on a silly accent" ...



Its American human that doesnt travel well, British humour is hillarious


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 7, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Its American human that doesnt travel well, British humour is hillarious




 Anyone else seem The Inbetweeners?


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## Mercurius (Dec 8, 2020)

I take it that the OP is asking for stuff that is highly regarded in geekdom, but which we find overrated? OK, off the top of my head:

(edit: After re-reading what I wrote below, I noticed a trend: most of this is stuff that I find decent or even good, just not as great as the accolades would have it. A theme, I guess).

Yea, *Firefly.* It is pretty good but doesn't deserve its cult adoration, imo.

*The Witcher.* Again, OK. But lacks that special something that really good fantasy has.

*Harry Potter. *I read the first book and thought it was good for what it was, but I just find the whole Potterverse annoying.

*Patrick Rothfuss*_*.* _I really wanted to like _Name of the Wind_ - started it three times, I think - but just found the tone annoying. It was just too...Rothfussian. He's a guy that if you watch him on any of the countless Youtube videos he's on clearly loves hearing himself talk and being the center of attention. I saw a fantasy author panel in which he must have spoken about 70-80% of the time, with four other authors fighting for the remainder. Robin Hobb and Steven Erikson were far more insightful and barely spoke.

*Labyrinth* and *Legend. *Two highly regarded cult darlings, both annoyingly 80sish. Labyrinth is decent, though, just overrated (imo! chill). Legend is just...nevermind.

*"The MCU formula". *I admit, I like a good superhero and most MCU films. And some of it is funny. But it also gets tedious, the "MCU formula." The humor can be great ("That guy's playing Galaga") or just tiresome (Guardians of the Galaxy - "Hey, aren't we just so funny?!"). I've got MCU fatigue and hope they do something different going forward, but doubt they will.

*Grimdark/Nihilism *in general*. *OK, I get it: _Human suffering and violence is so kewl!_ _Torture porn for the win!_ _Isn't life unremittingly awful?! _Frankly, gritty realism is overrated--especially when it is grittier than reality almost ever is. But I do really like GoT.

*Anime. *Not my cuppa.

*Joss Whedon. *Agreed what others have said.

*Blade Runner. *Its a good film, but kind of boring and hugely overrated.

*Star Wars Sequels. *I know, I know, don't get Zard started. But these are so utterly lacking in any of the great qualities the original film had, but just have better special effects. Its like creating an android of your high school crush - very nice to look at, but with no soul or personality.

*Terminator films. *Yes, even the first one. Well, the first two were pretty good, but even those ran out of gas on a pretty basic scifi idea.

*Brandon Sanderson. *Very good world-building and magic systems, but his characters are just flat and his books just don't draw me in. I don't dislike his books, but they're just luke-warm literary experiences that so many seem to think are great.

*YA. *Just...enough. OK, they're a valid customer base, but it just feels like turning over the same ground, again and again, just in new clothes and whatever the self-consciously social issue of the day happens to be.

*D&D. *Just kidding.

I'm sure there's more, but that's enough angst for now.


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## Older Beholder (Dec 8, 2020)

-


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## Stefano Rinaldelli (Dec 8, 2020)

Mercurius said:


> *D&D. *Just kidding.




Mmmm... well. I'm 44. Sometimes I find D&D (and the whole fantasy thing) silly. I definitely approve if somebody starts an editorial line with high profile stories and plot aimed to people without adolescence issues to cope with  
let me say aimed at people accostumed to read high brow literature. My wet dream is WOTC hiring hi level writers and creatives to design out of the standard adventures in a product line called "D&D Experiments".


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## nevin (Dec 8, 2020)

Battle Star Galactica.  I watched the whole thing because I saw the original and wanted to see how they ended it. but I watched the entire thing wondering why they didn't just blow up their engines and kill everyone.  Nothing good happened in that entire series.  It was the most depressing thing I've ever watched.


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## nevin (Dec 8, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> There's a few things I've actively been avoiding watching for no real reason.
> 
> The movie Titanic. Never seen it, don't want to, doesn't really interest me.
> 
> Anime also seem some don't get it doesn't interest me.



funny I've still not watched Titanic.  I know how it ends and I just have no desire to watch a slow motion train wreck.


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## innerdude (Apr 2, 2021)

ModestModernist said:


> I think I'm alone on this one but I find Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy unwatchable.




No, not alone. I wouldn't quite peg it as unwatchable, but despite acknowledging that they are all well-crafted films, I have little to no desire to revisit them. 

_Batman Begins_ can still suck me in, just because the first 40 minutes of the origin story is so well crafted. And it's not like if someone wanted to watch _Dark Night_ or _Dark Night Rises_ that I'd flat out refuse, but if I never viewed any of the 3 films again I wouldn't consider it a loss.


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## GreyLord (Apr 3, 2021)

nevin said:


> Battle Star Galactica.  I watched the whole thing because I saw the original and wanted to see how they ended it. but I watched the entire thing wondering why they didn't just blow up their engines and kill everyone.  Nothing good happened in that entire series.  It was the most depressing thing I've ever watched.




Very late response here (as in...5 months later or more).

I can't judge it, as I've never been able to get through it.

I've started the first season at least 3 or 4 times and always get sooooo bored by the middle of it I just never get any further.

Another one people have constantly said was the most awesome series was Babylon 5.  I cannot see what everyone sees about it.  It's just cringeworthy.  It just wants me want to cringe when watching it.  I buckled down and watched it and kept waiting for it to "get good."

The first season was just an introduction and it would get good with season 2 they said.  I watched season 2...it didn't get any better.  They said it was going to blast my socks off with season 3...I think I cringed even more with season 3 than with season 2.  Season 4 had everything paid off and all that you waited for finally came about.  I was still waiting.

I just don't get the craze that people have for Babylon 5.  Some episodes are watcheable...but there's a lot of cringe worthy stuff in there, or at least things that make me cringe watching them.


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## payn (Apr 3, 2021)

I like Nolan films a lot the first time through. Then, after each subsequent viewing I like them less and less.


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## Umbran (Apr 3, 2021)

GreyLord said:


> Another one people have constantly said was the most awesome series was Babylon 5.  I cannot see what everyone sees about it.  It's just cringeworthy.




So, you keep using the words, "cringe" and "cringeworthy".  That's like saying it is "bad", which is fine, you get to have that opinion.  But it doesn't tell anyone what it was about it you didn't like.

_Battlestar Galactica_, I'll agree with you on.  That series is unrelentingly grim.  The main characters never get any successes.  They are all carrying sidearms, and every episode I am left wondering why they don't just blow their own heads off.

And the half-cylon baby whose blood cures cancer?  That was just too nonsensical for me to continue past.


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## DrunkonDuty (Apr 3, 2021)

I enjoyed the first 2 seasons of BSG. I think if you stop watching there you'd have a reasonably enjoyable experience. YMMV.

I would like to second Patrick Rothvuss and Brandon Sanderson as overrated.

I read the 1st chapter of _Name of the Wind _and it was just a big pile of boring while the main character looks on smugly. And I gather the self-insert marty stu just gets worse and worse as the thing continues. no thanks.

I agree with Mercurius that Sanderson does good world creation but dull characters. Not awful. Just not good. Average.

Oh and I like _Big Bang Theory_. Yes it is guilty of casting beautiful women as love interests for decidedly average looking men. (as mentioned above.) But so is 90% of film and TV.


----------



## Zardnaar (Apr 3, 2021)

I liked BSG more on rewatch. Yeah it's fairly grim. 

 I love B5 but its effects haven't aged well.


----------



## GreyLord (Apr 3, 2021)

Umbran said:


> So, you keep using the words, "cringe" and "cringeworthy".  That's like saying it is "bad", which is fine, you get to have that opinion.  But it doesn't tell anyone what it was about it you didn't like.
> 
> _Battlestar Galactica_, I'll agree with you on.  That series is unrelentingly grim.  The main characters never get any successes.  They are all carrying sidearms, and every episode I am left wondering why they don't just blow their own heads off.
> 
> And the half-cylon baby whose blood cures cancer?  That was just too nonsensical for me to continue past.



It's like saying it's bad, but there are other things that just make me shake my head.  Too many to get into, and almost all of them spoilers...but...for example...



Spoiler



You have this guy (Mordon) that has Shadows escorting him all the time.  There are at least three of them surrounding him at all times.  So...then we see him go through crowded markets with people all around him...and you go...just how are those three large spiderlike Shadows avoiding everyone that easily???





Spoiler



There are multiple jokes regarding Mimbari and Centauri anatomy that are simply tossed in as jokes...and not very good jokes at that.  Jokes that just make you embarrassed you are hearing them





Spoiler



Massive overacting on the parts of characters at times.  Over the top acting.  Franklin and Garibaldi were okay, but Delenn, Lyta, G'Kar and even Londo sometimes went far overboard where you were left wondering how far they were going to go in their acting





Spoiler



Marcus Cole is an extreme Mary Sue.  A prime example...War without end has him and Ivanova discovered...except he just happens to decide to hide at that exact moment so they don't see him and he can ambush the guards.  His reasoning is that it would be the worst thing that could happen at that moment so he just felt it would...so he hid.  It's absolutely ludicrous how far they go with him...for me at least...others probably love him to death.





Spoiler



The jokes...did I mention the jokes.  The Humor just did not do it for me.  That's probably what I mean most when I say cringe worthy.  I couldn't stand the humor.  Most of the jokes really were bad...to me.  Others' probably liked them.





Spoiler



I know many Babylon 5 fans will say this is not so, but it seems obvious to me that Sinclair was originally supposed to be the star and fill the shoes that Sheridan does.  After the actor left the show it was rewritten with Sheridan in mind, and then with War without end they backfilled and retroactively created a story to make sense with what they had already done.  The did a good job of melding it (and those two episodes are probably two of the better episodes, but they need to lay off the humor of Zathras) and making it all seem seamless, but even the initials they use...J.S., makes it the least inventive character replacement...or obvious that they originally wanted J.S. (you can pick which one) as the star.





Spoiler



Too much religion or religious reference in my Sci Fi.  I know many like it that way, but it was so heavy handed at times that it made me cringe.



There's a lot more, but that's a small set of things that I could bring to mind.

Edit:  Actually, now that I think about it, and this may include BSG as well, something occurred to me that hasn't occurred to me before.



Spoiler



It may be more me than anything else.  Though there are times I don't mind the religious overtones in a movie or show (the original Star Wars Trilogy comes to mind which has some Zen and Buddhist ideas) a lot of the shows that I don't really enjoy as many times do have religious overtones in them.  Perhaps that's the biggest thing now that I think about it.  That could apply to many other shows and movies beyond B5 of BSG now that I'm actually looking at those shows and one of the items that I'm not really into within them.


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## TheSword (Apr 3, 2021)

Well there’s nothing like a thread about taking a crap on things people like to bring out the best in us


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## billd91 (Apr 3, 2021)

Spoiler



The jokes...did I mention the jokes. The Humor just did not do it for me. That's probably what I mean most when I say cringe worthy. I couldn't stand the humor. Most of the jokes really were bad...to me. Others' probably liked them.



Zooty zoot zoot.


----------



## Blue Orange (Apr 3, 2021)

Stefano Rinaldelli said:


> Mmmm... well. I'm 44. Sometimes I find D&D (and the whole fantasy thing) silly. I definitely approve if somebody starts an editorial line with high profile stories and plot aimed to people without adolescence issues to cope with
> let me say aimed at people accostumed to read high brow literature. My wet dream is WOTC hiring hi level writers and creatives to design out of the standard adventures in a product line called "D&D Experiments".




I've thought about that. I would wait about 10 years for the younger generation of writers reared on it to make its way through the pipeline, so to speak--Lev Grossman did a fairly highbrow trilogy that deals with the effects of the game within a modern-fantasy world--the wizards have played D&D and researched spells that copy Magic Missile and Fireball, among others. Being a DM involves storytelling for an audience, so it's not crazy there would be overlap with writers.

Personally I don't think 'highbrow fiction', with its focus on interiority, would work well as a D&D module--the guy's reflecting on his middle-aged angst, roll Wisdom save to see if he buys a new car/ breaks up with his wife? (Change gender/etc. of protagonists to your taste.) There are indie games that do these kind of personal conflicts, of course, but they don't sell all that well.


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## Umbran (Apr 3, 2021)

GreyLord said:


> It's like saying it's bad, but there are other things that just make me shake my head.  Too many to get into, and almost all of them spoilers...but...for example...




Babylon 5 is over 20 years old now.  I think that's beyond the need for spoiler protection.



GreyLord said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> You have this guy (Mordon) that has Shadows escorting him all the time.  There are at least three of them surrounding him at all times.  So...then we see him go through crowded markets with people all around him...and you go...just how are those three large spiderlike Shadows avoiding everyone that easily???




They are spider-like.  Didn't you think of _the walls_?



GreyLord said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Marcus Cole is an extreme Mary Sue.




Yeah.  Nobody likes Marcus in retrospect.



GreyLord said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I know many Babylon 5 fans will say this is not so, but it seems obvious to me that Sinclair was originally supposed to be the star and fill the shoes that Sheridan does.




You tell us what fans of the show will say, but utter things that show ignorance of what is common understanding among fans.  Heck, this is all on Wikipedia, and the show's creator has been quite open about it.  We are all quite aware that Sheriden was not the original intent.

We also know Michael O'Hare, the actor portraying Sinclair, developed severe and debilitating mental health issues during filming of the first season, and had to excuse himself from the production.  This was kept quiet out of respect for the actor until his death, but at the actor's request, it has been public knowledge for nearly a decade.

So... maybe cut them some slack for having to make that switch, and also, don't speak for the fans, hm?



GreyLord said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> After the actor left the show it was rewritten with Sheridan in mind, and then with War without end they backfilled and retroactively created a story to make sense with what they had already done.




It is my understanding that the essence of War Without End was actually the original plan.  O'Hare left the show with an agreement that if he could manage it he could come back and close that loop. 



GreyLord said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Too much religion or religious reference in my Sci Fi.  I know many like it that way, but it was so heavy handed at times that it made me cringe.




So, interesting point here - the author is an avowed atheist.  He finds exploration of spiritual and belief systems interesting, however.


----------



## Zardnaar (Apr 3, 2021)

Personally I don't mind religion in my sci fi. 

 Grew up with Greek, Egyptian, Roman mythology.


----------



## Blue (Apr 3, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> There's a few things I've actively been avoiding watching for no real reason.
> 
> The movie Titanic. Never seen it, don't want to, doesn't really interest me.



I have an amusing (to me) story about Titanic.  It was out in the theaters.  Me and a friend refused to see it.  It got all sorts of rave reviews.  Nope, we still wouldn't see it.  Everybody talking about it.  Nope.  It kept going on.  Nope.  Finally, it had been in the theaters for something like six months.  That was fricking unheard of - nothing lasted that long.  Especially an overlong (by cultural expectations) movie that everyone knows the end.  "Titanic sinks."  So finally, after resisting so long, we went to see it.

No, there's no punch line.  Just aggressive resistance that finally got worn away by it defying all norms by staying in the theaters so, soooo long.  I enjoyed it, teared up at the appropriate parts.  It wasn't amazing; I've never watched it again.



Zardnaar said:


> Anime also seem some don't get it doesn't interest me.



Anime is a medium.  Black and white films (or photgraphs) don't generally interest me, same concept.


----------



## Ath-kethin (Apr 4, 2021)

Napoleon Dynamite and The Big Bang Theory both seemed to be made by and for the kinds of people who harassed and beat up on me and my friends in middle school.

No thank you.


----------



## TheSword (Apr 4, 2021)

Ath-kethin said:


> Napoleon Dynamite and The Big Bang Theory both seemed to be made by and for the kinds of people who harassed and beat up on me and my friends in middle school.
> 
> No thank you.



I thought Napoleon dynamite and Big Bang theory was about making geeks be fun and win the day?


----------



## Ath-kethin (Apr 4, 2021)

TheSword said:


> I though Napoleon dynamite and Big Bang theory was about making geeks be fun and win the day?



To non-geeks, they probably seem that way.

And I of course can't speak for all geeks; those programs have many fans and I'm not here to devil or shame anyone. But I found them both to be full of the same BS stereotyping my friends and I had dealt with for decades.


----------



## Alzrius (Apr 4, 2021)

I can't bring myself to watch HBO's _Game of Thrones_. I sat through the very first episode, and that was enough to confirm that I just couldn't get into it. Having read the books, all I can see is what the TV show doesn't portray, and it just comes across as a pale imitation.


----------



## Ryujin (Apr 4, 2021)

Ath-kethin said:


> Napoleon Dynamite and The Big Bang Theory both seemed to be made by and for the kinds of people who harassed and beat up on me and my friends in middle school.
> 
> No thank you.



Definitely felt the same way about BBT. It always felt like it was laughing at geeks and nerds, not with us. Napoleon Dynamite didn't make me feel quite that way, for some reason. Maybe because it was presented more with just a "here's life" vibe, than stopping every 10 seconds for a laugh track?


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## Alzrius (Apr 4, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> Definitely felt the same way about BBT. It always felt like it was laughing at geeks and nerds, not with us.



While I never got that vibe, a friend of mine hates Big Bang Theory with a passion for exactly that reason, to the point where he calls it a "nerd minstrel show."


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## Ryujin (Apr 4, 2021)

Alzrius said:


> While I never got that vibe, a friend of mine hates Big Bang Theory with a passion for exactly that reason, to the point where he calls it a "nerd minstrel show."



That's a good analogy.


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## Zardnaar (Apr 4, 2021)

I never thought BBT was that good to begin with. 

It's no Parks and Rec/Community.


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## MarkB (Apr 4, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> I never thought BBT was that good to begin with.
> 
> It's no Parks and Rec/Community.



Is Parks and Rec really good? I keep hearing good things about it, but I watched the first episode and couldn't stand the main character.


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## Ath-kethin (Apr 4, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> Definitely felt the same way about BBT. It always felt like it was laughing at geeks and nerds, not with us. Napoleon Dynamite didn't make me feel quite that way, for some reason. Maybe because it was presented more with just a "here's life" vibe, than stopping every 10 seconds for a laugh track?



Fair enough. I suppose it's also accurate to say I just didn't find anything to enjoy in Napoleon Dynamite.


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## cmad1977 (Apr 4, 2021)

GreyLord said:


> Very late response here (as in...5 months later or more).
> 
> I can't judge it, as I've never been able to get through it.
> 
> ...




B5 was a thing that was great and ground-breaking in terms of storytelling.....
When it was made. Jeez.... I can’t imagine how bad it is now.


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## cmad1977 (Apr 4, 2021)

GreyLord said:


> It's like saying it's bad, but there are other things that just make me shake my head. Too many to get into, and almost all of them spoilers...but...for example...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Re: Sinclair. 
The actor had psychotic break in S1 and JMS made sure to get him help AND keep it secret. Ultimately it wasn’t enough and the retiree and passed away years later. Apparently JMS swore to the guy that he would never tell anyone but the actor told him to reveal the story after he died. 


But a lot of B5 just does NOT age well.


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## cmad1977 (Apr 4, 2021)

Ath-kethin said:


> Napoleon Dynamite and The Big Bang Theory both seemed to be made by and for the kinds of people who harassed and beat up on me and my friends in middle school.
> 
> No thank you.




Did you get picked on by the Crochet Club?


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## GreyLord (Apr 4, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> Definitely felt the same way about BBT. It always felt like it was laughing at geeks and nerds, not with us. Napoleon Dynamite didn't make me feel quite that way, for some reason. Maybe because it was presented more with just a "here's life" vibe, than stopping every 10 seconds for a laugh track?




What may be different with Napoleon Dynamite is it is a semi-biographical movie based upon the life of the writer and director of the movie and his experiences in Idaho.

Talking to some individuals from rural Idaho I've actually had the comments that the movie is actually very accurate in some of it's depictions of what life is like in Southeast Idaho.  It lacks some of the items and is not quote so over the top, but there is a strong resemblance between how some things happen in the film and life there.  I was rather surprised by their statements in that degree.  They seemed to think it was more a comedy about life in their state than anything else and loved the movie because of it (those that I talked to, this is anecdotal because obviously this is not everyone from Idaho or even a large number of them from there).

(PS: For at least a few of them, they felt it was more a story about Mormon Culture and felt that the main character absolutely represented Mormon's life and culture there more than how we may feel Napoleon represents geeks and nerds, which was also an interesting thing a few of them talked about regarding that movie).


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## trappedslider (Apr 4, 2021)

GreyLord said:


> (PS: For at least a few of them, they felt it was more a story about Mormon Culture and felt that the main character absolutely represented Mormon's life and culture there more than how we may feel Napoleon represents geeks and nerds, which was also an interesting thing a few of them talked about regarding that movie).



As a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints, i can yeah, i got strong vibes with that. Same with the small town being stuck a few decades behind everywhere else.


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## Ryujin (Apr 4, 2021)

GreyLord said:


> What may be different with Napoleon Dynamite is it is a semi-biographical movie based upon the life of the writer and director of the movie and his experiences in Idaho.
> 
> Talking to some individuals from rural Idaho I've actually had the comments that the movie is actually very accurate in some of it's depictions of what life is like in Southeast Idaho.  It lacks some of the items and is not quote so over the top, but there is a strong resemblance between how some things happen in the film and life there.  I was rather surprised by their statements in that degree.  They seemed to think it was more a comedy about life in their state than anything else and loved the movie because of it (those that I talked to, this is anecdotal because obviously this is not everyone from Idaho or even a large number of them from there).
> 
> (PS: For at least a few of them, they felt it was more a story about Mormon Culture and felt that the main character absolutely represented Mormon's life and culture there more than how we may feel Napoleon represents geeks and nerds, which was also an interesting thing a few of them talked about regarding that movie).



So the ones you spoke to liked it for the same reasons I can't watch "Letterkenny." Interesting.


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## Mind of tempest (Apr 4, 2021)

I just hate harry potter for a mix of reasons one very stupid but the rest is are I just do not get the setting or the characters.

will agree with the bbt bashing.

not seen half the things mentioned as they are older than I am, and by that I mean my father has fond memories of baby me bouncing along to the buffy theme song.


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## Blue (Apr 5, 2021)

From a fiction perspective, Narnia and Dragonriders of Pern - both classic series of their day (and I was in that day), but never grabbed me.


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## wicked cool (Apr 5, 2021)

Good Good let the hate flow through you

I would say based on this thread theres a lot of hate for popular culture and a lot of you have barely watched BBT

the writers of this show are not the bullies you grew up with in fact they appear to be just the opposite

Other than the absurdity of the hot neighbor falling for the low income scientist it hits the mark pretty closely (ive been doing this for 45+ years)

rpg players
-we don't usually flaunt it. Its never water cooler talk, most don't wear D&D shirts out like those who wear say a Yankees hat
-good chunk of us (not all) have a partner who has no interest in this or understands it
-your parents etc didn't play it (a majority)
-your coworkers have no idea

the characters on BBT are funny and they do things that I know I might do if I was in there situation

-1 episode where they try to sneak into a D&D celebrity game. I know I would love to sit down with William Shatner and play d&D
-1 episode they go the George Lucas filming estate-yeah sorry but that's a cool scenario
- star trek new generation cast members show up due to relationship with Wil Wheaton
-episodes where they play their own version of D&D. we each have our own house rules 

where are you people in this crazy world where you don't fit the stereotype. every youtube station, every game store every comic book store (im sorry but the guy in the simpsons who runs the comic store is somewhat accurate)

for those of you who hate critical role (not sure why hate but I could see the I dont have time argument). Matt Mercer is probably one of the greatest GM's/DM's on the planet. People are afraid that he has put pressure on them to live up to what he does as a dm (the Mercer effect). I would argue hes a better DM than the creators of D&D and any other famous DM out there (go back and look at a good chunk of the classic modules-they are a mess and many have things that make no sense).  He's a once in a lifetime  

what this thread should do is for those who hate something give us an example or things you like instead and that you think deserve awards for excellence in movies etc


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## Ace (Apr 5, 2021)

Alzrius said:


> While I never got that vibe, a friend of mine hates Big Bang Theory with a passion for exactly that reason, to the point where he calls it a "nerd minstrel show."




Minstrel  Show. Ouch.

I can't bring myself to hate any media. That would require me to be involved with it. I am therefore indifferent to media I don't like.  I guess that qualifies as cold. 

Harry Potter is a good example, saw the first movie and was just "eh." after that. I can't blame other people for enjoying it though. Its good just not for me.  I actually liked Twilight more but that's not a high bar.

 Same with most of the teen dystopia other than Maze Runner which was decent. 

I will say though   BBT . Well I do get while some normies like it.  For some I've seen its helps  them understand super smart people on some safe level. 

I'm not a fan. From my few viewings  is filled with fairly offensive nerd stereotypes and it feels like that is the last group its OK to treat like that on TV . And yes there are people that do act like that . So what? There are people who act like other unpleasant stereotypes as well. 

Its ugly and in a way since most of the characters are far from neurotypical , it feels like disability bashing as well. Just  because they are smart and its funny is not OK. 

  Mayim Bialik get a pass, she's the least nerdy anyway and actually that smart. Is it acting? No one knows


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## Snarf Zagyg (Apr 5, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> Good Good let the hate flow through you



...


wicked cool said:


> what this thread should do is for those who hate something give us an example or things you like instead and that you think deserve awards for excellence in movies etc




So, if you read the OP (which I wrote about four months ago), you would see this:

_"And I was thinking about the subject- what is some great media (TV, movies, music if that's your bag) that you finally broke down and consumed because "everyone says it's the best thing ever" and you were just like, "Eh. That's it?" ...

This is more like, "Eh, Firefly is just not all that." And, by the way, what brought this up is a recently made the acquaintance of another serious nerd who just, you know, didn't like Star Wars. ...

Just off the top of my head. Anyway- what media was highly recommended to you that you just couldn't get into?"_

The point of this is (was?) not to just hate on things. But for people to explain why certain things just didn't work for them; whether it's nerd confessions (my friend who doesn't like any of the Star Wars, or that I don't like the Harry Potter movies ... or books) or general befuddlement at pop culture acceptance.

Trust me on this- I'm pretty sure that neither Chuck Lorre (creator of BBT, net worth of $600 million+) nor Matt Mercer needs you to defend them.


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## Ryujin (Apr 5, 2021)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ...
> 
> 
> So, if you read the OP (which I wrote about four months ago), you would see this:
> ...



I think that I worked out that something around the cost of 9 minutes of one episode, of BBT, would have paid for the entire last season of the web series "JourneyQuest."


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## DammitVictor (Apr 6, 2021)

_Owlboy_. Award-winning indie platformer, and I ragequit halfway through the mandatory tutorial. I have noticed a definite trend in a lot of gaming and young adult literature, in which "whimsical" as a tag or in a synopsis is practically synonymous with "CW: child abuse" except you're supposed to think it's funny, and quite frankly I wish all those authors and designers who can't tell the difference would die screaming.

Also noped out of Harry Potter halfway through the fifth movie, same reason. _The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina_, at least, is actually marketed as _horror_, so I couldn't complain when I couldn't finish the first season.


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## wicked cool (Apr 6, 2021)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ...
> 
> 
> So, if you read the OP (which I wrote about four months ago), you would see this:
> ...



True- it seemed a lot of posts were more hate than left cold. I just tried to point out these bbt characters are closer to reality than they want to admit


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## Snarf Zagyg (Apr 6, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> True- it seemed a lot of posts were more hate than left cold. I just tried to point out these bbt characters are closer to reality than they want to admit




I think that there are numerous reasons why BBT doesn't work for various people. I mean, it certainly doesn't for me! But I have trouble watching any three-camera, laugh-track sitcom.

That said, one person's immersion is another person's inability to suspend disbelief. The very things that you might like about the show (for example, the references to aspects of nerd culture that you otherwise wouldn't get in a primetime sitcom) might be exactly inline with the things other people dislike about it (that it traffics in that culture, yet gets details wrong or makes fun of aspects of the characters).

It would be like someone in the 90s saying, "How can you not like Friends? That's totally how the post-college, 20-something, restless life was like!" And someone else replying, "Really? People were able to afford massive apartments in Manhattan like that? Tell me more!" 

What works for some people (and at some times) doesn't work for other people at other times.


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## wicked cool (Apr 6, 2021)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I think that there are numerous reasons why BBT doesn't work for various people. I mean, it certainly doesn't for me! But I have trouble watching any three-camera, laugh-track sitcom.
> 
> That said, one person's immersion is another person's inability to suspend disbelief. The very things that you might like about the show (for example, the references to aspects of nerd culture that you otherwise wouldn't get in a primetime sitcom) might be exactly inline with the things other people dislike about it (that it traffics in that culture, yet gets details wrong or makes fun of aspects of the characters).
> 
> ...



Somewhat true obviously on Manhattan although I thought they lived outside of that but I think for gamers it’s something more. It’s prevalent on this site that there’s a huge dislike for a lot of popular culture especially successful ones(there’s a loud critical voice for all things got tv  and lotr movies) etc


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## Ryujin (Apr 6, 2021)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I think that there are numerous reasons why BBT doesn't work for various people. I mean, it certainly doesn't for me! But I have trouble watching any three-camera, laugh-track sitcom.
> 
> That said, one person's immersion is another person's inability to suspend disbelief. The very things that you might like about the show (for example, the references to aspects of nerd culture that you otherwise wouldn't get in a primetime sitcom) might be exactly inline with the things other people dislike about it (that it traffics in that culture, yet gets details wrong or makes fun of aspects of the characters).
> 
> ...



Then there's the whole "having to justify why you do or don't like something", that's pretty toxic in general. I try to stick to saying why _I_ do or don't like something but someone explicitly asked, in this thread, for us to "name a thing about BBT."


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## Stefano Rinaldelli (Apr 7, 2021)

American Gods


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## Paul Farquhar (Apr 7, 2021)

_The Expanse_/_Leviathan Wakes. _I tried both the book and the TV series and couldn't get into either. Didn't care about any of the characters.


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## Stefano Rinaldelli (Apr 7, 2021)

Brandon Sanderson books


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## TheSword (Apr 7, 2021)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I think that there are numerous reasons why BBT doesn't work for various people. I mean, it certainly doesn't for me! But I have trouble watching any three-camera, laugh-track sitcom.
> 
> That said, one person's immersion is another person's inability to suspend disbelief. The very things that you might like about the show (for example, the references to aspects of nerd culture that you otherwise wouldn't get in a primetime sitcom) might be exactly inline with the things other people dislike about it (that it traffics in that culture, yet gets details wrong or makes fun of aspects of the characters).
> 
> ...



Yeah, but it’s now just turned into a rejection of popular culture. Suggesting that BBT is nerd minstrel show is pretty insulting on so many levels.

Your initial post may have been pure but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


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## briggart (Apr 7, 2021)

I watched the first few episodes of BBT, and didn't really like it. As others have noticed, it felt it was laughing at geeks, rather than with geeks.
Few years later, most of the people I was hanging around with loved it and I started watching it again and I found it better. Not sure if it was because they tuned their sensibilities, or the story was more focused on the relationships leaving less time to the "geeks are weird" stuff, or something else. I enjoyed 3-4 seasons, then I've kind of lost interest into it.  

Unrelated, I want to like Tales from the Loop, but I can't. Not sure I understand why, it feels like something I would enjoy, but I just can't sit through more than 10 minutes of it.


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## payn (Apr 7, 2021)

briggart said:


> Unrelated, I want to like Tales from the Loop, but I can't. Not sure I understand why, it feels like something I would enjoy, but I just can't sit through more than 10 minutes of it.



There is definitely some conflicting tones going on in Tales from the Loop. There is a sense of wonder that is dulled under the constant loneliness and loss that occurs among the characters. I like it because tis something different and makes me think. Though, I for sure dont trumpet TftL to everyone I know as something they would like.


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## Ryujin (Apr 7, 2021)

Seinfeld: They unironically referred to it as "a show about nothing" and that's exactly what it always felt like to me. Perhaps, to Middle America, those strange sounding Yiddishisms are funny but to me, they were just words I heard from people while growing up in Toronto (which has a rather large Jewish population).


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## Gammadoodler (Apr 7, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> _The Expanse_/_Leviathan Wakes. _I tried both the book and the TV series and couldn't get into either. Didn't care about any of the characters.



Definitely understand this.  That was a book I really wanted to like that left me just kinda meh. 

That said,  I think the Expanse does a lot to pick up the characterization the book didn't include while doing a good job of bringing the hard sci-fi aspects to life (one of my favorite  little throwaway scenes was a hallway shot where people are walking on both the ceiling and floor because they're all relying on magnetic boots for orientation. Like that's just good worldbuilding). The characters are still pretty thin,  but I feel it a lot less.


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## payn (Apr 7, 2021)

Gammadoodler said:


> Definitely understand this.  That was a book I really wanted to like that left me just kinda meh.
> 
> That said,  I think the Expanse does a lot to pick up the characterization the book didn't include while doing a good job of bringing the hard sci-fi aspects to life (one of my favorite  little throwaway scenes was a hallway shot where people are walking on both the ceiling and floor because they're all relying on magnetic boots for orientation. Like that's just good worldbuilding). The characters are still pretty thin,  but I feel it a lot less.



The Expanse is one of the few examples the Series is better than the novels. (At least the first 3 seasons). It really helped having the novel writers along for the rid eon the series. It often feels like things they wish they did in the novels they now get to do on the series.


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## Ace (Apr 7, 2021)

briggart said:


> I watched the first few episodes of BBT, and didn't really like it. As others have noticed, it felt it was laughing at geeks, rather than with geeks.
> Few years later, most of the people I was hanging around with loved it and I started watching it again and I found it better. Not sure if it was because they tuned their sensibilities, or the story was more focused on the relationships leaving less time to the "geeks are weird" stuff, or something else. I enjoyed 3-4 seasons, then I've kind of lost interest into it.
> 
> Unrelated, I want to like Tales from the Loop, but I can't. Not sure I understand why, it feels like something I would enjoy, but I just can't sit through more than 10 minutes of it.




Laughing At vs Laughing With is exactly the issue. IMO BBT Is laughing at nerds not with them and to me its  rife with offensive stereotypes .

A lot of people disagree but I'm not a purist so like what you like. 

  Also there was a Tales from The Loop show? Huh. I'm more than a little out of touch with pop culture I guess.


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## briggart (Apr 7, 2021)

Ace said:


> Also there was a Tales from The Loop show? Huh. I'm more than a little out of touch with pop culture I guess.



It's on Amazon Prime, not sure it's available anywhere else.


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## Jackdaw McGraw (Apr 7, 2021)

Since we're all griping...

*Star Wars*, the movies and series : Never had much interest in them, even as a child. The original production/art design was amazing for its time and holds up very well today. The cast in the original movies are charming curmudgeons doing their best with some sparse writing. The casts of the later movies are fun and plucky but hard to watch because the writing and direction is embarrassing. Just trash. I know expressing this opinion in the ttrpg community is like slapping someone's lovely mother, but it's a boring, plodding, played out IP. 

Friends have told me many of the books are great but I have zero interest in visiting the setting.

*Avatar*: Awful. James Cameron seems like a smart man so I sometimes wonder if this movie is an intentional middle finger. It's pretty and technically impressive but so stupid, in a way that's not even fun to heckle.


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## Gammadoodler (Apr 8, 2021)

payn said:


> The Expanse is one of the few examples the Series is better than the novels. (At least the first 3 seasons). It really helped having the novel writers along for the rid eon the series. It often feels like things they wish they did in the novels they now get to do on the series.



Yeah. The Amazon seasons have been pretty spotty.  Coming off the first three, the Amazon ones don't feel like they get enough time to breathe before they conclude.  Kind of felt this way about The Boys too. 

It feels like the writers have enough story for 13 episodes but only get to tell it in 8.


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## Mind of tempest (Apr 8, 2021)

Gammadoodler said:


> Yeah. The Amazon seasons have been pretty spotty.  Coming off the first three, the Amazon ones don't feel like they get enough time to breathe before they conclude.  Kind of felt this way about The Boys too.
> 
> It feels like the writers have enough story for 13 episodes but only get to tell it in 8.



I think there too scared to ask for more episodes a session.


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## DollarD (Apr 8, 2021)

MarkB said:


> Is Parks and Rec really good? I keep hearing good things about it, but I watched the first episode and couldn't stand the main character.




Well, I had that problem too - and it turns out, the first season they were trying to copy The Office, which I also couldn't get into, since I couldn't stand the main character. And apparently its quite popular generally. 

Starting Parks and Rec at Season 2 certainly made it a lot more watchable, as they've basically retooled the main character from goofy and useless, to earnest and effective - though I believe consensus is that it starts to get really good end of Season 2, when a few more main characters join. Almost every character is vastly different from Parks and Rec Season 1.

I'm not sure if The Office similiarly is better if you start from a later season. Maybe it is, but I've just given up on ever watching it.


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## Azuresun (Apr 8, 2021)

Retreater said:


> As a general rule, I don't like media that feature criminal/murderous protagonists - so that strikes out Tarantino, gangster movies, Game of Thrones, etc.




I'm the same way with anything that has villain protagonists. It always feels like the writer gets just a bit too carried away with making excuses for horrible people doing horrible things, and the fans are way too quick to forgive evil people just so long as they're charismatic and / or pretty. 

I don't know if anyone even remembers it now, but _House of Leaves_. It was billed as the most terrifying and disturbing thing you could possibly read....and to me, it was 5% effective psychological horror and 5% mild creepiness vs hundreds of pages of the writer tediously waffling on about how clever and postmodern he was and using "clever" word layouts that meant a lot of the pages were half empty space.

The _Millenium_ series. I read the first one, quite liked it. Then in the second, it started to look like Larsson didn't have any new ideas, and the way the victims-to-be were jumping around waving their death flags reminded me of that bit in _Hot Shots!_ and I couldn't take it seriously after that point. Plus, I did read where in Larsson's past it came from, but the author's issues with all men being misogynist jerks *at best* (except the protagonist) was getting pretty grinding.


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## payn (Apr 8, 2021)

Gammadoodler said:


> Yeah. The Amazon seasons have been pretty spotty.  Coming off the first three, the Amazon ones don't feel like they get enough time to breathe before they conclude.  Kind of felt this way about The Boys too.
> 
> It feels like the writers have enough story for 13 episodes but only get to tell it in 8.



That is strange because I feel the opposite. Season 4 felt like 4 episodes content stretched out to 10. Season 5 was slightly better in that it was 6 episodes content stretched to 10. 


Mind of tempest said:


> I think there too scared to ask for more episodes a session.



Actually, Amazon wanted the showrunners to drop Expanse down to 8 episodes per season. The showrunners said they could do 10 in the same budget, and Amazon agreed.


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## DammitVictor (Apr 8, 2021)

Gammadoodler said:


> It feels like the writers have enough story for 13 episodes but only get to tell it in 8.




Do you remember when Netflix Original Series only had enough story for eight episodes, but they all ran for thirteen anyway?

_Pepperidge Farms remembers._

Having experienced both, I'm not sure I can say which is worse.


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## Lylandra (Apr 8, 2021)

Avatar - King of overhyped films. Nice graphics & music, but that's it. Don't need no sequels. 

Pulp Fiction - Never got to me. Just "okay, it exists"

The Walking Dead - was interesting at first, but then turned "k, but does it develop somewhere?" very quickly

Better Call Saul - it can be fun, but there is so much unnecessary drama. Liked Breaking Bad though except for the last season. Should have ended on that unstable equilibrium with that perfect shot on the lily of the valley.

On the other hand I loved the new BSG because the characters were so complex and human. I usually hate Grimdark, but this one was brilliant (okay minus Apollo. He's boring).


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## meltdownpass (Apr 12, 2021)

Azuresun said:


> I don't know if anyone even remembers it now, but _House of Leaves_. It was billed as the most terrifying and disturbing thing you could possibly read....and to me, it was 5% effective psychological horror and 5% mild creepiness vs hundreds of pages of the writer tediously waffling on about how clever and postmodern he was and using "clever" word layouts that meant a lot of the pages were half empty space.



Absolutely. House of Leaves is much more of a status signifier than a book. I wish I had spent that time reading more Borges, who is a better writer and has much more interesting ideas.


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