# (IR) To my friends in the IR



## Edena_of_Neith (Jan 22, 2003)

Hey there, everyone.  

  You know, in the three IRs I was a part of, we used most of the major campaign settings.
  That is, we used Forgotten Realms, and Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Birthright, and the Known World, among others.

  It seems Rokugan is all that's left.

  But ...

  Remember that there was a Gate leading to an alternate reality on Kaboom's Isle of the Phoenix?
  And remember that the alternate Oerth beyond the Gate was never touched in the 3rd IR?

  That alternate Oerth lies next to an alternate Toril and Krynn.

  Yes, the major settings are now a part of the Demiplane of Hope, but why not use this alternate setting?  
  Why let so many of the main settings be taken?
  If my word as DM of the first three IRs still counts for anything, I say that the Gate leads to a legitimate and viable alternate reality, and this reality was mentioned in the 3rd IR, so it is there still.

  I know Rokugan is a good setting, but why restrict yourselves to Rokugan?  All the main settings are still in play, if you use the Settings Beyond the Gate - the Gate on the Isle of the Phoenix.
  Indeed, that is one of the few ways into the Demiplane of Hope from without that does not require magic or special circumstances to enter the Plane with!


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## Tokiwong (Jan 22, 2003)

*IR stuff*

_Sounds interesting to me._


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## Edena_of_Neith (Jan 22, 2003)

*What about your IR?  What would yours be like?*

In the first IR, the trouble started because many nations of Faerun, such as Calimshan, Mulhorand, and Thay embraced the gnomish technology.
  The elves and druids, alarmed by the destruction being incurred by these countries and the gnomes, started a campaign of sabotage and public outcry (which was quickly picked up by Faerunian nations such as Waterdeep and Luruar, who did not wish to see smokestacks bellowing, and the forests falling, etc., etc., in their lands.)
  Threatened by the elves and druids, the southern nations who had embraced the gnomes, banded together to form the Technomancy.
  The situation escalated into war between Technomancy and the elves and druids, which pulled in other countries and peoples.

  Eventually, the humanoids would jump on the technomancy bandwagon, under the leadership of Forrester, and unite into the Humanoid Alliance.
  The elves and druids would send dragons in to cause mass destruction in the Technomancy.
  The illithid, seeing their chance at the growing chaos Above, would launch a war for dominion of the Underdark.

  That is how it began, in the first IR.
  But that was my IR.
  What about your IR?

  What would happen, if the gnomes started with their industrial revolution, on Faerun, in your IR, using the Faerun beyond the Gate, the alternate Faerun?


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## Tokiwong (Jan 22, 2003)

Tough question, I had a game with a basis of an Industrial Revolution in Faerun, that I ran, essecntially some of the Elves were against it, but the Drow embraced it, those in the Dales at least... hmm.. I should dig it up, I got it somewhere...

FR-The Industrial Revolution 

Right there.


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## Gurdjieff (Jan 22, 2003)

*Hmmmm, IR... good memories...*

but are you saying there'll be a new IR in the world of Faerun?


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## The Forsaken One (Jan 22, 2003)

I aint touching your world unless you GM it. You and only you can create and run such a game. I think alot feel the same about that, it's a thing you created an guided, we played it but it were your games and your brainchild so... if you'd GM one. Please? When youd be sure of internet acces somewhere in the future. I'd be dying for it. But I'd like to save your setting for you if you might want to play and GM it in the future that it'll be there for you, honored and cherished like it deserves.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 22, 2003)

I'd sure play . Lawful Good again of course.


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## The Forsaken One (Jan 22, 2003)

if it were in FR I'd go with something connected to Talos or Auril or something. Gods of the weather and destruction  But I don't know it's just what appeals to me the most and I can Identify myself best with and that can differ alot per moment.


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## Timothy (Jan 22, 2003)

I've heard so much about IR, and it seems you really take A LOT of time do keep track of everything. I wish I was ab it more like you. But if you run another game, I'll be very glad to join in as the newcomer.


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## The Forsaken One (Jan 22, 2003)

Beter try and keep all of your games running first 

If you'd be interested, the third IR is listed in the table of contents, and mind you that all those threads were produced in 4 months.

And if you want to play a game on the scope of the 3rd IR, I can guarantee you that it will take up most if not all of your online time =]


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## Serpenteye (Jan 23, 2003)

Edena, I agree with The Forsaken One, we need you . Your creativity, imagination, dramatic flair and dedication to a game is unparalleled to any other game I've read of or participated in. It would be an honour and a pleasure to play in another game with you as the DM.


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## Edena_of_Neith (Jan 23, 2003)

Thanks, Tokiwong, for the link.  I'll have a look! 

  Thanks for the compliments, guys.

  Please, however, consider this:

  The IR did not start as a game at all.
  It didn't even start as a question, not really.
  I was bummed out one day, after a Flame War over my You Must Be Tolerant post.  So, I sat down and thought up a frivolous nonsensical question (involving a situation that would never happen, not in the Forgotten Realms!), and set it down.
  I was hoping for a few humorous answers in return.  Some humorous, absolutely of no importance, kind of stuff.

  So what happens?
  What happened was spontaneous.
  It was not something I foresaw, nor intended, nor could have started if I had tried.

  People started posting serious answers to my humorous question.
  Then, more people started posting, replying to the serious replies.

  So I said ... hey, ok, I'm betting that if this is what you are posting, then maybe those NPCs really would act that way, and I think this would happen.

  And then more posts, and yet more, came streaming in.
  People started to argue with each other over the What Ifs, and yet more people jumped in.

  So I said ... ok, it seems we have two sides here.  The gnomes and allies, and their foes.  And it seems to me that the foes of the gnomes would be winning, based on the posts.

  Then about six people jump in on the side of the gnomes, and I say:  ok, perhaps I was wrong.  Perhaps the gnomes would win.

  Then yet more arguing broke out, and long articles explaining why this or that would happen, and ... well, then, something rather magical happened.

  I became a storyteller instead of a commentator, somehow.  
  And those who were arguing, were suddenly players, each representing a different faction.
  What had been a serious debate over the original frivolous question, was now a game.

  And then, when that happened, suddenly hundreds of posts descended on the ENBoards, all in the matter of a few days.
  An avalanche of posts, and I watched with my mouth wide open.
  But I like that kind of thing.  It's neat, writing a story.  We gamers write a story every single time we play the game, you know.  We write a story, in the air - but it IS a story.
  So, since I had become the storyteller, I assumed the job of impromptu DM, and everyone ... just accepted me as that!
  So I said this and that, and the chain reaction built up to a colossal roar, and we made history on the ENBoards, and we altered the Forgotten Realms beyond recognition.
  And many of us, had a ... lot ... of fun.

  But ... I did not say at the start:  Now I shall begin a game, and run it, on the ENBoards.
  I never imagined that my frivolous, humorous question would create the IR.  (I am greatly honored that it did.)

  In the second IR, I pulled a trick.
  I thought - I cannot go and say ... let's do this again.  People won't go for it.
  So, I put something on the boards that I thought would stir up a tempus.  Sort of a Troll, really.  Rabble-rousing.
  Without warning, I had the Chosen - in the most arrogant and unreasonable way - demand EVERYONE submit to their justice, and be judged, and accept their punishment, for their actions in the first IR.
  It worked.  Some people, like Forrester from the first IR, were rather incensed (heck, I would have been incensed!)  And when they came to pound the Chosen into snailsnot, that pulled back in everyone from the First IR.
  Even so, it was a close thing.  I pulled every trick I knew to keep interest, to try to get people to want to be involved.
  Thus, the Second IR was a philosophical uproar.  It started as a trial, turned into a peace conference (and when was the last fantasy peace conference you were in, that wasn't a verbal uproar), and finally ... when it was obvious that peace wasn't going to happen ... I threw in elements to start the war all over again.

  In the Third IR, I attempted this stunt again, with the Wanderer.
  However, I was far less successful here.
  I think the Third IR worked because everyone remembered the joy of the First and Second IR, saw the fun that could be had, and everyone tried to create something good, something fun, once more.
  I tried to create something more lasting than the first two IRs were.  I tried to create senses of time and motion.  I put in rules to give a framework upon which to base decisions - I tried to create a new RP game, in effect.  An effort that grew harder and harder, as you gained more and more powerful weapons and magic, until my flawed framework of rules was buckling and collapsing, but I shored it up as I could, and just kept on.  (I have been accused of being stubborn.  Stubborn I am, and it helped me to keep going there.)


 ...

  Now, if I go back to Faerun, as it is officially, and I say:  What would you do, if the gnomes started the industrial revolution (my original question), I am not this time asking a frivolous question.
  Instead, I am saying:  do you wish to start a game.
  That is a very different thing.
  And remember that when the First IR occurred, we could play it in RPG General, where the most people who post here would see it, and be inclined to join in - we cannot do that now, for the setup of the ENBoards is different now.  

  How would I run such an IR?
  Some of you would want rules such as existed for the Third IR.  That is, that your power or people had so much strength, so much access to technology, so much magic, and so on.
  Some of you would want freeform.  Remember that the entire First IR was pure freeform.  Look at the archives.

  I don't know how to do it.
  I would want, if I ran an IR again, to allow for a good time for all of you ... how do I do that?

  And I don't want people to say:  Edena blew it in the end.  His last IR was a disaster.

  If I could start a new IR on RPG General, it would help, I think.  But the rules are the rules.

  Darkness was nice enough to allow us to start the 3rd IR on RPG ... he protected us when posters became upset, and he did a lot of good things for us.  However, Darkness could not allow it now ... the rules are much stricter now.
  If I never thanked you, Darkness, for doing that then, I thank you now.  (Can someone point Darkness to this post, so he can read this?  I do not have his e-mail.)

  I would like to recapture the spontaneity, the sudden outburst of outrage, joy, bewilderment (what IS this thread about??!!), and sheer madcap mayhem (I leave for 45 minutes, and half the the war has passed, bemoaned Balor), that was the First IR.
  Read it in the Archives.  You'll see that it was all this!
  I wish there was a way to do it again.
  Because that outburst of outrage, joy, bewilderment, and madcap mayhem, WAS what provided the base and the inspiration, for the ten thousand posts and four month long 3rd IR (averaging one hundred posts per day, for over three months.)
  At least, that is my opinion.

  How to recapture the spontaneity?
  How to recapture the atmospherics of the First IR?
  Go to the Archives, and read the First IR again, anyone who feels like it.  Perhaps you can find the answer that eludes me.


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## Edena_of_Neith (Jan 23, 2003)

*Hmmm ...*

I just looked at the Hivemind Thread on RPG General.

  I am very surprised they are allowing that, there.
  Have they relaxed the rules, then?

  Perhaps I could start another IR, after all, on RPG General ...


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## Gurdjieff (Jan 23, 2003)

Heh, in my opinion, the 3rd IR was great. And seeing the enthousiasm with which so many people posted they must have had a lot of fun as well. The rules were very clear and people really had influence with their actions. You really did a great job there and I don't think many people will be able to deny that, or even try to deny it. 

If you're serious about this, I'm 100% in again. Every once in a while we still talk about the 3rd IR in the IRC channel and if there ever will be a new IR. As for the first and second IR, I never played them, but I've read the archives. I think the freedom people had there was because it was new. It hadn't been done before, noone really had an experience on this scale of roleplaying and strategic thinking. People wanted to try it out, for it was new, and they shared their ideas with others. 
Looking at the 3rd IR, it was even bigger than the first and second, and most of the people who played read or competed in the other IRs. There needed to be rules to keep people from going total anarchy and that's what kept freedom small. However, even though freedom was kept within borders, it was enough for most of us. Think of The Forsaken One with his Diadem, Sollir with his evil, hidden for a long time and of course Melkor who made great plans which I still don't know all. In the 3rd IR, IMO, there was enough freedom. But hey, that's me. =]

Whatever you think Edena, you did a great job on all the IRs. We all had a lot of fun playing in them or reading them, or even both. You certainly never screwed it up. =].


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## Knight Otu (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: Hmmm ...*



			
				Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> *I just looked at the Hivemind Thread on RPG General.
> 
> I am very surprised they are allowing that, there.
> Have they relaxed the rules, then?
> ...




The Hivemind, in essence, is not a game. It is a "chat" between friends, sometimes nonsensical, sometimes serious. The IR did not start as a game, true, but by now it is a game.

The Hivemind can spawn IC games, and has done so twice. But it is not a game.

Does that help?


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## Lichtenhart (Jan 23, 2003)

Edena, I'm not sure if when the first IR started there already was an IC forum. Even if there was, I'm sure it was no way as alive and flamboyant and full of enthusiastic people as it has been lately. I just noticed PC had to split it because it's getting emormous. I'm sure you could find a good crew for an IR here too. It doesn't even need to be an IR. I'd play a game run by you anywhere and anytime, freeform or not, no matter the setting. I'm sure you can find a good "frivolous nonsensical question" that would stir up our imagination. Give it a try


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## Creamsteak (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: Hmmm ...*



			
				Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> *I just looked at the Hivemind Thread on RPG General.
> 
> I am very surprised they are allowing that, there.
> Have they relaxed the rules, then?
> ...



I'd say they might be willing to start you there, and move the threads after you have them closed. For instance, after 400 posts you start a new thread, and the previous one is locked and sent to IC. Just so long as you never have more than one thread in general, I doubt it would be a problem.


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## Darkness (Jan 23, 2003)

Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> *(Can someone point Darkness to this post, so he can read this?  I do not have his e-mail.)*



(My e-mail address is in my EN World profile, BTW. Or just click on the "e-mail" button just beneath any of my almost 5,700 posts. )







			
				Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> *Darkness was nice enough to allow us to start the 3rd IR on RPG ... he protected us when posters became upset, and he did a lot of good things for us.  However, Darkness could not allow it now ... the rules are much stricter now.
> If I never thanked you, Darkness, for doing that then, I thank you now.*



Heh. Yeah, well - I liked the idea. Also, I figured I knew you well enough (from our German training way back when) to "risk" it. 

But yeah, it would be quite hard to do an IR in GD nowadays... (It already was kinda impossible to do it for more than a couple threads the last time around, for that matter.)

BTW, not to spoil your fun before it has even begun, but I'm a bit worried about your health if you were to do another IR (_especially_ if it's something that's as important to you as re-creating the glory of the first IR), considering how much the last one taxed you...
So... If you're serious - even though "serious" might not be the right word, considering that we're talking about the IR here, but I think you know what I'm trying to say  - about this, e-mail me at your earliest convenience and together we'll see to it that we can make this fun _without_ sacrificing your health and sanity for it, ok? 

Starting with a clean slate is a good idea, IMO, BTW; 'cause if you just continued in the worlds where the 3rd IR left off, you wouldn't have the spontaneity of the first IR (and probably couldn't get very many "new recruits").







			
				Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> *I just looked at the Hivemind Thread on RPG General.
> 
> I am very surprised they are allowing that, there.
> Have they relaxed the rules, then?
> ...



Hivemind = off-topic. And off-topic stuff goes into GD.







			
				Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> *Edena, I'm not sure if when the first IR started there already was an IC forum.*



*shakes head* There wasn't.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 23, 2003)

Yeah, I emailed Darkness and he replied in like 4 seconds, and posted here within 30. It was impressive to say the least. Not that I couldn't do it .

So, anyway, Darkness' concerns are important to me as well. I don't want to make you do something that wouldn't enjoy. One thing that is especially important to me, that you feel good about such a thing.

Anyway, if you feel like it, after you email Darkness, feel free to email me.


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## Serpenteye (Jan 24, 2003)

> In the Third IR, I attempted this stunt again, with the Wanderer.
> However, I was far less successful here.
> I think the Third IR worked because everyone remembered the joy of the First and Second IR, saw the fun that could be had, and everyone tried to create something good, something fun, once more.




I disagree with you there. I didn't play in the 1st and 2nd IRs but I have read them, they were fun and interesting but IMO the 3rd IR was vastly superior. I guess that it's a weakness of mine to need rules and formulas. Chaos, to the degree of the 1st IR, doesn't appeal to me as much. If you were to DM another IR (and I was to play in it) I would prefer one with a similar structure as the 3rd.
Nevertheless I'm sure that however you do it it will turn out excellent.


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## GnomeWorks (Jan 24, 2003)

I should've read this sooner...

Another IR?  My first question is: are you up to it, Edena?  Like Darkness said, the 3rd seemed to be pretty taxing on you.

My seond is: when do we start? 

Nobody weaves a story like you, Edena... there was some great stuff in the 3rd IR, and I doubt that anyone other than you could recreate it.  I would greatly look forward to anything you started - IR or not.


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## William Ronald (Jan 24, 2003)

Hi, Edena.

I like your idea about the Alternate Oerth, Toril, and other published setting worlds.  It makes sense, and also allows fresh ideas. 

I don't know how much time I would have to play in another IR.  However, I do share the concern Darkness and creamsteak expressed about your health.  Trust me, you don't have to prove yourself to anyone.  So, I think you could run something while not taxing yourself. (Your efforts to run the 3rd IR can aptly be described as herculean -- and I have seldom seen their like in gaming.  To those who did not play in the IR,  I would add that few people I know have Edena's passion or work ethic.  The preparations he took for the major battles in the 3rd IR were impressive, based on what he has told me.)

Maybe a more free form style -- somewhere between the chaos of the first IR and the rules of the third IR -- might be a good approach.  Or, if you want, make it free form.

If there is any way I can be of help, just ask.  Thanks again for running the 3rd IR.

(By the way, if any of those alternate worlds have gates to alternate worlds, we could have a situation much like the TV show Sliders: infinite alternate worlds.  Or to quote the late John Pertwee (Dr. Who): Infinite worlds, therefore infinite possibilities.)

Darkness,  I hope you are doing better as I know you have been through a lot of late.

Creamsteak,  I have just gotten back to following the Emerald Contest.  Good role playing (kudos to Lichtenhart and Knight Otu in particular who are fairly new to me.)


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## William Ronald (Jan 24, 2003)

I just had an idea.   (Anyone who read the 3rd IR knows how dangerous that can be. )

Darkness, if there is another IR, maybe there could be a recruitment thread in the General RPG forum.  There was one before the 3rd IR, and I recall that we got a few good players from it.

Also, if anyone can find web-based sources for maps of the Forgotten Realms and any other published settings, it might be useful if Edena or anyone else runs an IR.  (Hmm, considering that many of the games on these boards are run in existing setting, it might be good to have a list of such resources for everyone on the boards.  I can check my own resources and start a list.  If so, where would be the best place to post such a list?)


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## zouron (Jan 24, 2003)

hmm another IR...

well zouron the dark is out for sure LOL not gonna use him again.. but could be fun with another character... however unlike serpenteye the rules were not in my taste I found the first IR to be vastly superior to anything else... rules for me takes awya some of the wonder and randomness... anyway each to their own  

and the 3rd IR was fun in it's own way (me and william talk about it a lot LOL), anyway each of us probably have our own favorite IR (and I happened to like on board everything open discussion and the game of others being able to see what you do, cause doing soemthing only you and the dm sees is boring hehe).

anyway enough rambling!


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## Edena_of_Neith (Jan 24, 2003)

Hey there, GnomeWorks.  Nice to see you again!
You too, Venus.  Nice to hear from you again!
  And thanks for the warm welcome back and support, Knight Otu, Lichtenhart.  Nice to meet you.

 

  - - -

  Uh, what is GD?  General Discussion?  (Darkness refers to a GD forum.)

  My situation (and my health) is not stable.
  I have returned after a 40 day absense in which I had to live out in motels in the dead of winter.
  I have returned after the folks decided to get a divorce, proceeded with that divorce, then halted it - but, the divorce is only on hold.  It is not ended yet.

  If I were to start another IR, would you'all want to begin in the Alternate Forgotten Realms?
  We began the first IR in the Forgotten Realms.  That was freeform.  A 4th IR of mine would have rules, people taking powers before the start, and the like.
  Is that where you would like to start?

  That assumes I could run a 4th IR.  I cannot until my health and my situation stabilizes.
  I might run one ... I need more time to consider things.  Thus, my question above.

  I appreciate the compliments on my IRs, but the Rokugan IR is a really good game.  I do not have a monopoly on good IRs!
  It sounds like the Hivemind Threads are pretty neat, too.

  You know what I cherish most about the IRs?
  That it enabled me to have you as friends.  THAT is a legacy of the IR that is really memorable, that I have you as friends.

  - - -

  Darkness, thanks for the support.  After what I did, I thought I had lost you.  Thanks for supporting me here.  (solemn look)  Thanks a lot.
  I wish I could have heard from Maudlin again.  I never heard from him again after my breakdown on Turn 5 of the 3rd IR.  But I really did, and do, appreciate his beautiful maps.  I wish he were here so I could tell him so.  (I kept a nice copy of his map, and framed it.)

  Edena_of_Neith


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## Creamsteak (Jan 24, 2003)

Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> *  Uh, what is GD?  General Discussion?  (Darkness refers to a GD forum.)*




Yep, General Discussion. Acronyms... never do really know for sure till your told, that's the problem with Acronyms. I had no idea what GIRA was for the longest time, I thought it had nothing to do with the IR till Bugbear told me so.

*



			My situation (and my health) is not stable.
  I have returned after a 40 day absense in which I had to live out in motels in the dead of winter.
  I have returned after the folks decided to get a divorce, proceeded with that divorce, then halted it - but, the divorce is only on hold.  It is not ended yet.
		
Click to expand...


* And that's the crux of the matter. Your a worthy human being. Not everyone has the ability to bring about entertainment and creativity the way you did. Very few do, as a matter of fact. And, if it's any example, it shows that you understand purpose. Not everybody does. Well, not everybody my age-that's for sure-as I've found my purposes, but many of my friends and family have not. You say cheers. I don't. I salut the people I respect (in an ex-cadet way), and I respect you. I salut your abilities Edena, and matters like the above are often misdirected by the faint. You might think you lack the toughness or the strength, but you'd be surprised how much toughness and strength everyone around here sees in you.

*



			If I were to start another IR, would you'all want to begin in the Alternate Forgotten Realms?
		
Click to expand...


*This is acceptable to me. I am not familiar with FR, but I'm sure there is something suitable to my role-playing abilities.

*



			A 4th IR of mine would have rules, people taking powers before the start, and the like.Is that where you would like to start?
		
Click to expand...


* I fall somewhere between serpenteyes and Zouron. I like claiming my power, and knowing 'Open ended interpretive statistics' like PL (the definition of the preceding statement would be something along the lines of: A statistic that can be interpreted in virtually any way, and compared to virtually any figure with the same statistic). I believe that the rules used by you in the 3rd IR are nearly perfect, with the exception of cumulative power levels. I'll have fun, if you decide to run a 4th IR, and I'll try and make it the same kinda fun we had in the 3rd IR to the best of my ability.

*



			That assumes I could run a 4th IR.  I cannot until my health and my situation stabilizes.
  I might run one ... I need more time to consider things.  Thus, my question above.
		
Click to expand...


*Of course. I'd rather know your doing well than have a 4th IR. I'd rather you say, "well, as long as I don't run the 4th IR, everything in my world will be the way I want it," but I don't have that power. Trust me, if I did, I would be very generous with it.



> *  I appreciate the compliments on my IRs, but the Rokugan IR is a really good game.  I do not have a monopoly on good IRs!*



You'd be surprised. From a reading stand-point, the IRR (Industrial Revolution of Rokugan) is great, but from a playing standpoint it's horrible. The role-playing is excellent, especially since we have players like Knight-Otu and Lichtenhart added to the mix. These are people who take matters through the minds of their PC and not themselves. However, the matter is dampened by my constantly shifting workload, and the 'build yourself up in preparation for war' mentality (I do believe it's one word, Militarism, correct?) And because of the Militarism the players seem to all be indowed with in this particular game, Wars require a match. There hasn't been a big enough match just yet, but eventually there will be, but in the meantime many players have left.

I'd like to see the game pick up speed, and I'd like to see the militaristic clans that many players seem to founder be bring their might down, but it's not happening. That, and I don't think I handle everyone's plans with that personality you did. I'd send you an email, and you'd tell me 'it would happen unless someone stops me', however, I as a DM am more in the belief to say, 'this won't happen unless you succeed here'. This is why your by far the better DM for the IR games, you have a better scope on perspective, whereas I'm more worried about things being blown out of my personal scope.


> * It sounds like the Hivemind Threads are pretty neat, too.*



 Uh oh... they got to you, didn't they? The hivemind infection continues...



> *  You know what I cherish most about the IRs?
> That it enabled me to have you as friends.  THAT is a legacy of the IR that is really memorable, that I have you as friends.*



The steps in my evolution as a role-player and DM were really founded upon the IR, Edena. That's another thing you can know. Because of Sanctus, and watching the many other PCs, I can undoubtedly say I've improved my abilities as a Player. I've often been told "your the best DM I've ever had" by veterans of 6 and 8 years of gaming. That's a compliment that you can take for yourself, as everything they say of me, can, in some way, be brought back to the IR.


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## Reprisal (Jan 24, 2003)

Hey all,

I'd have to agree with zouron in my advocation for a more free-form method of playing this theoretical 4th IR.  I have one simple reason for this. To me, the first IR was much more about the value of the ideals presented in relation to what the Industrial Revolution brought in terms of good and bad things. This inherent subjectivity gave rise to conflict, but not necessarily uneven conflict. Adding a system of rules to such an endeavour would shift the focus of the game away from the quality of the ideals to the quality of your ability to win the game.

To me, there's a fundamental difference in comparing the two.

It's part of the reason I wasn't as ... enthusiastic in relation to IR3 because it felt more akin to accounting than it did to the more idea-centric IR1.

This is not to say that I was somehow angry at Edena for adopting the ruleset, but I was disheartened at my disability as a player in that game to adequately do my faction justice. I didn't want to play in IR3 because I felt that I couldn't do the United Commonwealth of Toril justice in terms of building up that nation-state's statistics. I'm a far better Voice than I am a General, so to speak. 

My inability to play the game took something away from the attachment I had to the experience of my character and "my country."

It's like trying to play a Fighter, when you know little about the little tricks veterans do to make their Fighter all the better... My skill has generally been one of diplomacy, and it seemed that IR3 was more geared to the Generals building up power for an inevitable war. A war that I felt I could not win with words...

Still, you have my support in whatever you choose to do, Edena. Like I said, I'd love to run an IR, but I think that some might not be that interested in the direction that I would take it (away from the accounting and toward the discourse between faction heads).

In any event, my offer to run an IR game still stands. At the same time, however, if you were inclined to run a game, I would not attempt to stand in your way. 

I would offer to help you run it, of course, though I wouldn't know where to start or even where to apply what little adjudicating ability that I have...

Just a thought, 

 - Rep.


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## zouron (Jan 24, 2003)

I second what Reprisal said all the way, to me the rules heavy version the 3rd IR made peace and negotiations seem less useful (also the fact much of it was moved off board was sorta sad... these are the fun parts to read!). Sure we all knew the Humanoids were overwhelming powerful, and zouron the dark's army rather pathetic and so on, but we knew that even without the numbers and they still played their importance all of us, for example I worked hard with my middle way things to keep things less bloody etc, in the 3rd IR I felt it was very much you have X and I have Y, Y is a whee bit bigger then X thus I crush you, and so on. The 3rd IR wasn't a failure in anyway, but it was more focused on war and strength of nations then charismatic leaders, ideals, scheming. even dramatic effects (with the exception of the mountain tacticle missile attack hehe). Under all circumstances I personally felt very bound by the rules when I played, and I surely missed the talks of peace and such from the second IR (or kidnapping the peace deligations of the first hehehe).

As for place, forgotten realm is fine, I love laying it in ruins once more  that is not to say we should be limited to that world or anything, heck if you came up with your completely own idea I would be happy with that too! (most annoying for me with the GH was I am clueless and the strategic map represented gave no meaning to me hehe), heck even if we used the earth map as a base it would be neat.

Time and place? whenever you get well my friend, and only then, if you get sick that would be the first sign for me to stop posting, I like to see you whole and happy (or at least type as if you are whole and happy), there can always be enough suffering and sickness when the day in the far future comes when you go visit hel .

While I wouldn't offer to help you run the IR, if you need help preparing don't fear to call out.

BTW if the 4th IR takes place on the FR world I vote we call it "IR Take 2" 

hmm who to play... 
Kithra the defiler?
Necroll, Lord of the land of Death?
Lord Lowrick Edighburg the undying?
Zouron?
The Merciless?
Treiss Tatonia, warrior of RiKhan?

so many options hmm.... ;-)


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## The Forsaken One (Jan 24, 2003)

> Yeah, I emailed Darkness and he replied in like 4 seconds, and posted here within 30. It was impressive to say the least. Not that I couldn't do it




I know someone else who does that 

Btw Edena, O'Creamy one there makes a mean map! He's good at it so if improvising is needed... he's great at it. I got a FR map somewhere on my computer. I'll post it if someone wanted to take a look at it (if it isn't to big which I'm afraid of)

I'd be in for damned sure! You can bet on that. Call it nostalgia  FR sounds fine to me... plans growing in my mind. I'm baaddd hehe.

I'd wait forever for another IR and I'll be here waiting

And Zouron... No Larloch? No Thayans?

And Edena, get well  I think that if we wanted to start this we'd get it on like we used to! Some bad ass posting and playing, and you know we love it  You're the best!

So be well and don't start or even think about starting this unless you are ready, in mind and body since health > all.


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## zouron (Jan 24, 2003)

Larloch and Thayans are not my thing sowwy.


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## Darkness (Jan 24, 2003)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> *Darkness, if there is another IR, maybe there could be a recruitment thread in the General RPG forum.  There was one before the 3rd IR, and I recall that we got a few good players from it.*



Ok; I'll _make_ it possible if need be...







> *Darkness, I hope you are doing better as I know you have been through a lot of late.*



D'oh! I _knew_ I must have forgotten something, considering how turbulent my life was lately (health problems, my aunt's death, catching up in a new class...). 
I'm sorry, William; I really meant to write you back...


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## Creamsteak (Jan 24, 2003)

Zouron, Reprisal, I'm pretty sure about this, but I don't want to interfere:

The Forsaken One and I were two examples of players with extremely low power levels that -to the surprise of many- won wars. You may have missed it when Edena rained 10000 PL of demons on Oerth, but I sure didn't. The game still supported strategy and tactics and all that fun stuff. PL was just a relative measurement, and when you fought against something that was much larger than you, you could still win, so long as you had something. That something could be the motivation of your people, strategy, that super secret defense you've been holding, or your allies you call into the fight.


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## Serpenteye (Jan 24, 2003)

Reprisal said:
			
		

> *Hey all,
> I'm a far better Voice than I am a General, so to speak.
> *




It's the other way for me. I'm a far better statesman or general than I am a philosopher.

--

edit: On second thought... that sounded pretty conceited. . Let's just say that I'm a sucky philosopher.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 24, 2003)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It's the other way for me. I'm a far better statesman or general than I am a philosopher. *



And I'm somewhere in the middle-ground.


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## Gurdjieff (Jan 24, 2003)

Didn't 7PL of formiants sent by The Forsaken One take out quite some PL of the demons and such? With his burrowing & earthquaking strategy? Just an example of how little PL can still be very effective


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## The Forsaken One (Jan 25, 2003)

Hahaha and then Melkor used his catastrophe on that 8 PL hahahhaha ow man I have never ever laughed as hard as when I read that. He thought I was throwing everything I had at it while it was a mere 8 PL and he used his catastrophe on it wahahahahahah!

And I dunno what I am but I concider myself to be quite a general and I am quite adept at manipulation. 3rd IR is a great example from where I started and how I took on the Taraakians at the end. Man  that speech was brilliant and brought alot of people back on my side.. 

(Ok enough of that ego boosting thing for today )


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## William Ronald (Jan 25, 2003)

Darkness, 

Don't feel bad for forgetting to write me back.  You have been through a lot and have been quite busy.

I would be comfortable with either a rules-based or free-form game.  

However, there is no need to rush anything.

Edena,

If you wish, maybe just start thinking about how you might want to approach another IR.  Hopefully, the family situation and your health will be stable.  If you need any help, or just want to send me an e-mail, contact me at  either wronald1@yahoo.com or williamwronald@aol.com

If anyone wants to contact me, feel free.  I will soon start to compile a list of maps and other resources for the major published settings.  They could be useful to people playing in games on these boards.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 31, 2003)

Bump


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## William Ronald (Jan 31, 2003)

Edena,

Obviously there is no need to rush to start another IR.

Take your time and find a format that works well for you, if you wish to run another IR.  What matters most to everyone here is your well being.  (I hope the situation at home is going well.)

Remember, there are a lot of different ways to run a game.  Fortunately, there are people whom you can run any rules  by for advice.  As I recall, a few suggestions by players in the 3rd IR also helped to shape some of the rules.

Additionally, many people on the boards are ready to help you as needed.  (I had a busy week, so I will take some time to find maps and other resources.)


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## Creamsteak (Jan 31, 2003)

Eh, I was just bumping in case Edena didn't know where it disappeared to after the Forum Split.



Check that, it's quite funny WR.


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## William Ronald (Feb 1, 2003)

Thanks, creamsteak!!

I am going to work up a humorous addition or two to that thread, proof that the IR crew has a sense of humor.  Also, I am going to send you an e-mail of some of the web resources I have found for another IR or for other games.  

Here is one that shows a view of Abeir-Toril, the world of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting from Space:  

http://boards.wizards.com/rpg-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=168;t=000414

By the way, congratulations on being promoted to a moderator.


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## William Ronald (Feb 7, 2003)

creamsteak,

Did you receive the e-mail I sent you listing maps and other resources?  If not, contact me at wronald1@yahoo.com or williamwronald@aol.com

If you like the list and thing it will help, where should I post it?


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## Creamsteak (Feb 7, 2003)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> *creamsteak,
> 
> Did you receive the e-mail I sent you listing maps and other resources?  If not, contact me at wronald1@yahoo.com or williamwronald@aol.com
> 
> If you like the list and thing it will help, where should I post it? *



Yep, got it, and will read and reply.


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## Bugbear (Feb 8, 2003)

*Hello everybody!!*

How you all doing?
Sadly, if you have a 4th IR, I most likly won't be able to participate as I won't have internet access for a while 
In fact tonight's my last night of it.

Edena, I would also like to ask you not to kill yourself or go mad should you take up the mantle of the IR again. take it slow and enjoy it.

also, some of you may have noticed that the GIRA site is offline.  money is tight and I couldn't afford to keep it going.  But don't worry, that's only temporary. I still have all the files and will build a better archive once I return to the net.  In the meantime, I have the 1st IR in PDF format on my geocities site if anyone wants to download it.
http://www.geocities.com/litberg/

The java chat room has moved there two for those of you who still use it. (it's the Unoficial toollog chat room now, but I don't think they will mind  .In my absence KellyBelly is the Moderator. if she asks just tell her dave sent you) I saw that some of you still gather there on occasion. 

Good luck to you all, 
Bugbear (Turrosh Mak)


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## Creamsteak (Feb 8, 2003)

I'm doing great! Good to see you around, even though your leaving!


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## William Ronald (Feb 8, 2003)

Dave,

Sorry to hear that you are leaving.  I hope that you will be well, and that you will soon have internet access.  (I know the economy is rough,  I hope that everything improves soon.)

I am well, currently working on a prerequisites for a master's degree in education.  Following up a few job leads as well. 

You were a major part of the 3rd IR, and you did a wonderful job of gathering the threads for the previous IRs.  (I will download the first IR threads, does anyone have a copy of the 2nd IR?) 

It is good to hear from you again.

And in a role playing vein,  Archcleric Hazen pulls up a chair for Turrosh Mak to share a few memories and some of that world famous Keoland brandy. 

Be well, Dave.


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## The Forsaken One (Feb 8, 2003)

I'm still convinced it's a damned smart ploy to get the whole Great Wheel addicted to that damned brandy while he has a monopoly on it so he can rule all planes full of addicts.

The reason why I never accepted it 

I'm still dubbing on some stuff but I'm gonna spend my last two charges like Edena granted me to do something with the last two... I'm thinking up the details and stealing alot from the MotP but I'm fixing up something.. it'll take a while. It's gonna be rather large.


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## Serpenteye (Feb 9, 2003)

I'm Sorry to hear that Dave and wish you the bast of luck in the future.



> I'm still convinced it's a damned smart ploy to get the whole Great Wheel addicted to that damned brandy while he has a monopoly on it so he can rule all planes full of addicts.




And they called me evil. My evil is young and innocent, like a kitten compared to William's.


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## William Ronald (Feb 10, 2003)

Serpenteye:  Why bombard planets when you can just get everyone inebriated?  Seriously, I have found in my own game that trade relations tend to diffuse tensions between nations.  Heck, some people even argue that the old Soviet Union was doomed as soon as the first McDonald's opened in Moscow. 

I do have some good news. Dave e-mailed me, and he now will have some limited internet access.  He is also planning to post the 3rd IR as a series of PDF files.

He also asked if anyone has a copy of the 2nd IR?  If so, e-mail me and I will put you in touch with Dave.  Also, has anyone heard from Maudlin?  I know that at least one of the maps from the 3rd IR is still up.  Dave would like to post the 3rd IR maps on his site.

Hopefully, Dave will be able to come back to the boards sometime soon.


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## Serpenteye (Feb 11, 2003)

I think the incompetence and corruption of the soviet burocracy was the main cause for the collapse. That, and of course, the high consumtion of Vodka. Which brings us back once again to that famed keolandish brandy... oh evil one 

---

btw I think I have most of the second IR saved to my HD (it's supposed to be a bit tiny compared to the 3rd IR, right?). I also have Maudlin's maps for turn 0, turn 3 and turn 6 (which brilliantly illustrate the successes of the Union of Oerth , and some other nations )

So, if you give me Bugbear's e-mail I'll send it to him.


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## Bugbear (Feb 11, 2003)

IR 2 was only two threads in length. The first was roughly 18 pages and the second was roughly 10.  i would suggest saving them as text files and e-mailing them that way (to keep the file size small) My Email is in my profile.

And just for the record, Turrosh Mak never touched Keolander Brandy.  Which may be the reasion he died...


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## The Forsaken One (Feb 11, 2003)

Neither did Sertpenteye or me, and we rule supreme! Muhahahah!


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## William Ronald (Feb 11, 2003)

Serpenteye:

If you have not e-mailed Dave yet, you can reach him at litberg@yahoo.com.  Thanks for the materials.  Without turning this into a political thread,   I tend to agree with you about the Soviet Union.  I will try to track down Maudlin this week.  (Which may not be a good thing for the Union of Worlds, but could really help with the maps. )

Hopefully, we can give Bugbear a few more resources.

The Forsaken One:

Yes, but I think you did purchase a few heads of cattle from the Kevellond League. :


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## The Forsaken One (Feb 11, 2003)

That was in the start, later I switched to creep


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## The Forsaken One (Feb 11, 2003)

That was in the start, later I switched to creep 

Among those of the Hive better known as *the good stuff*


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## Serpenteye (Feb 11, 2003)

Bugbear said:
			
		

> *IR 2 was only two threads in length. The first was roughly 18 pages and the second was roughly 10.  i would suggest saving them as text files and e-mailing them that way (to keep the file size small) My Email is in my profile.
> *




 Unfortunately it seems i have only 9 pages of thread1 and 7 pages of thread 2. So... I guess I could send that to you within a couple of days unless you've found someone else who can give you all of it. Sorry.


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## Bugbear (Feb 16, 2003)

sure send 'em on over.  Perhaps the missing parts will be in there.


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## William Ronald (Feb 19, 2003)

Hi, Bugbear:

I heard from Kalanyr and he does not have a copy of the 2nd IR.  I will try to track a few people down who might have it.

How are you?


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## Bugbear (Feb 20, 2003)

Well enough ronald.
still working on the next PDF (Chapter 1 of the third IR).  
Still Unemployed 
Working on finishing up my current campaign and have begun hammering out some notes on the next one. (A FR campaign set in the Daggerford region.)
And playing Icewind Dale II in my "Spare time"


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## William Ronald (Feb 28, 2003)

Hello, everyone:

I chatted with Edena, and he would like everyone who participated in the IRs to feel free to e-mail him at edelaith@wideopenwest.com.

He is doing well, and said to say hello to everyone.


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## Bugbear (Mar 4, 2003)

*Topic: The Realms Have Got To Be Due For An Industrial Revolution*

I came across this discussionThis on the forgotten realms boards at WOTC, and thought you IR hardheads might find it interesting.

~Bugbear


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## William Ronald (Mar 11, 2003)

Thanks, Bugbear.

Edena, creamsteak and I have represented the "IR hardheads" on that thread.  A lot of people at WotC seem to oppose the thought of technology in their worlds.

By the way, if you need help with any proofreading of anything from the IR, e-mail me at wronald1@yahoo.com.


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