# How much to tip the pizza delivery guy?



## sam500 (Jan 22, 2007)

I just ordered a pizza from domino's that cost me $10.
With delivery charge $2 and tax of $1 
that comes to $13
Do I tip the delivery guy on top of that or does the delivery charge go to him?
Paying 50% on top of a pizza seems to be crazy.
Your thoughts?


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## GlassJaw (Jan 22, 2007)

Never heard of Domino's adding a delivery charge.

I'd probably give him $15.


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## billd91 (Jan 22, 2007)

sam500 said:
			
		

> I just ordered a pizza from domino's that cost me $10.
> With delivery charge $2 and tax of $1
> that comes to $13
> Do I tip the delivery guy on top of that or does the delivery charge go to him?
> ...




They charge for delivery? Weird. I don't know of many pizza places that do that around these parts.
I think a buck a pie is a pretty common tip for pizza delivery.


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## IcyCool (Jan 22, 2007)

Pretty much all of the pizza joints out here add a dollar or two as a delivery charge.  It doesn't go to the driver directly though, it's partially what is used to pay for their mileage.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Jan 22, 2007)

sam500 said:
			
		

> I just ordered a pizza from domino's that cost me $10.
> With delivery charge $2 and tax of $1
> that comes to $13
> Do I tip the delivery guy on top of that or does the delivery charge go to him?
> ...




How often do you order pizza?  

I'll generally do 15% on the base price, but if I'm paying cash I'll usually round to the nearest easy number.  I used to do more till the pizza joints started adding their delivery charge "to compensate for gas prices" since none of that was going to the delivery guys (and besides which, gas is down to $2.20 here from $3.20, and none of them have dropped the surcharge).   

But I order pizza more than I should, and I get good, fast service.  In my old apartment, I ordered from my favorite joint a lot, got great service, and tipped well.  When I moved into my new place, a guy stopped me on the elevator.  We both looked at each other like we sort of recognized the other, and he says 'Hey, you used to live at XYZ, right?  You used to order pizza from us.  You always tipped well so we'd always deliver yours first.'


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## werk (Jan 22, 2007)

I usually throw them 4 or 5 bucks, but have never had to pay a delivery charge.  I'd just ask the guy about the delivery charge and if he gets that money.

In a restraunt I usually tip as a percentage of the bill, but for delivery, it's usually based on how far away the place is and what the weather is like outside.  $10 or $100 they are usually going to get ~$5 tip as long as they are not super super late.


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## Pbartender (Jan 22, 2007)

billd91 said:
			
		

> They charge for delivery? Weird. I don't know of many pizza places that do that around these parts.




Every place that delivers round here, not just pizza places, have delivery charges in the range a dollar or two.

In general, we just round up to the nearest $5 increment, and then toss in an extra $5 worth of tip for every $25 (or so) worth of bill.  It makes for a decent tip, and is a lot easier than calculating out a precise percentage.

And like Werk said, if travel conditions are bad, we'll be a bit more generous.


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## Dingleberry (Jan 22, 2007)

Having once worked food delivery (cookies, not pizza) and now being upper middle-class, my philosophy is to overtip: at the end of the day, a couple of extra bucks means a lot more to someone delivering pizzas than it does to me.

I believe that the world would be a much better place if everyone had to work for tips at some point - pizza delivery, wait tables, whatever.  That, and clean a public restroom.


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## Ranger REG (Jan 22, 2007)

sam500 said:
			
		

> Your thoughts?



Tip him. Otherwise, go to the restaurant yourself and order carry-out.


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## Bad Paper (Jan 23, 2007)

sam500 said:
			
		

> I just ordered a pizza from domino's that cost me $10.
> With delivery charge $2 and tax of $1
> that comes to $13
> Do I tip the delivery guy on top of that or does the delivery charge go to him?
> ...



Give him $14 and a couple of cans of beer.


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## was (Jan 23, 2007)

After being burned several times, I no longer order from anyplace that tacks on a delivery charge.  Anyways, when I do order pizza ($15-$20) I usually give the driver $2 plus the coins.


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## Kurashu (Jan 23, 2007)

I used to order from Papa Johns here in town. Through a deal with my school you could get a large pizza for free when you ordered a large pizza if you had a Boilercard. Mmmm free larger meatlovers and Dr Pepper make D&D much better. Too bad they closed. Grah. I miss them already and they closed on the first. ;-; First Hardees. Now Papa Johns. KFC is scheduled next from what I keep hearing. I won't miss that one though.

Anyways, whenever I get pizza I tip at least 10% of the total price. Usually more if I have the extra money. That is unless the guy shows up late.


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## sydbar (Jan 23, 2007)

I usually tip $2-3 dollars rounded uo, but most people don't tip according the delivery guys that would stop at 7-11, when i worked there.


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## LightPhoenix (Jan 23, 2007)

I worked delivery for a bit in college, and indeed, the amount of people that don't tip is staggering.  On top of that, you've got the people that will _only_ give you the change, which I think was worse.

That said, tip off the base cost.  The "delivery charge" is usually used to offset gas and repair, when you don't have to use your own car.  It may be a scam, of course, but keep in mind that if it is the delivery guy is getting just as shafted as you are by it - he isn't seeing the money either.


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## kenobi65 (Jan 23, 2007)

I usually tip a couple of dollars, plus a little more if the weather stinks.

I actually live across the street from an Italian restaurant, though there's other places whose pizza I like better (which is why I'm getting delivery).  If I order a pizza from across the street, I go pick it up...though I've always threatened that, on some really bitterly cold night, I'm going to order a pizza from there, and ask for delivery.


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 24, 2007)

Threads like this always make me happy that tipping in New Zealand is pretty much unheard of.

My local Chinese place has a practice I thoroughly approve of.  Let's say the bill is $36.60; when they show up at the door, they have a little bag containing $3.40 on hand.

So much more convenient than the pizza guy who looks at the two twenties you're holding, and goes "Uh," and starts hunting through his belt bag for the right coins...

-Hyp.


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## Ranger REG (Jan 24, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Threads like this always make me happy that tipping in New Zealand is pretty much unheard of.
> 
> My local Chinese place has a practice I thoroughly approve of.  Let's say the bill is $36.60; when they show up at the door, they have a little bag containing $3.40 on hand.



Do I still take the little bag if I paid the exact charge?


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## LightPhoenix (Jan 24, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Threads like this always make me happy that tipping in New Zealand is pretty much unheard of.




I'm curious, in NZ do they have a minimum wage law?  That's a big reason for tipping here in the States - if you get tips, they can actually pay you less than minimum wage, and you generally get paid less in general anyway.  Tipping is a way for people doing those jobs to bring in a little extra money.


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 24, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I'm curious, in NZ do they have a minimum wage law?  That's a big reason for tipping here in the States - if you get tips, they can actually pay you less than minimum wage, and you generally get paid less in general anyway.  Tipping is a way for people doing those jobs to bring in a little extra money.




There is a minimum wage law - the first in the world, as I understand it - and I don't think there's a provision for paying less with the exceptions of under-16-year-olds or certain apprenticeships.  The minimum wage for 16-17 year olds is also lower than the 18+ wage.

-Hyp.


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## kenobi65 (Jan 24, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> There is a minimum wage law - the first in the world, as I understand it - and I don't think there's a provision for paying less with the exceptions of under-16-year-olds or certain apprenticeships.  The minimum wage for 16-17 year olds is also lower than the 18+ wage.




The U.S. has a minimum wage law, as well, though, at the moment, it's a very low wage, and it hasn't increased in something like 15 years.  (Many states have instituted higher minimums.)

In addition, as LightPhoenix notes, in some jobs in which tipping is expected (e.g., waiters), the minimum wage apparently doesn't apply.  I'm not sure if "delivery driver" is among those that are exempt from the minimum.


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## LightPhoenix (Jan 24, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> In addition, as LightPhoenix notes, in some jobs in which tipping is expected (e.g., waiters), the minimum wage apparently doesn't apply.  I'm not sure if "delivery driver" is among those that are exempt from the minimum.




Oh yes.

Any job in which you get tips (or commission, which falls under the same tax law, IIRC) is exempt.  I've found, especially in more recent years, that most companies will match minimum wage, or close to it, even with tips, simply because it attracts better workers, and doesn't cost much out of pocket.  The reason it's exempt, IIRC, is because the government taxes tips and commissions, and thus that's considered part of your paycheck.


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 24, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Any job in which you get tips (or commission, which falls under the same tax law, IIRC) is exempt.  I've found, especially in more recent years, that most companies will match minimum wage, or close to it, even with tips, simply because it attracts better workers, and doesn't cost much out of pocket.




Isn't there a law in the US that if a worker's wage plus tips is less than minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference?

Or is it if the tips they receive is less than n% of the receipts over that period, or something?

-Hyp.


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## takyris (Jan 24, 2007)

Do people tip when they come in to pick up carry-out?

I do, but I've lately been feeling stupid about doing so. And I've gotten dinged a couple of times upon getting home (botched order, real meat instead of fake meat in a vegetarian order, great stuff like that) that gives me an excuse to drop the tipping altogether.

On the other hand, any time I've got somebody doing a service job, my philosophy is also to overtip. If you're serving me in a restaurant and you do a decent job, you're going to get 20%, rounded up to the nearest buck. (And my wife is enough of a softie that I am forbidden to stiff anyone completely, even if the service was insultingly bad.)


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 24, 2007)

takyris said:
			
		

> (And my wife is enough of a softie that I am forbidden to stiff anyone completely, even if the service was insultingly bad.)




My (admittedly third-hand) understanding of tipping etiquette was that stiffing someone completely is the incorrect response for insultingly bad service, since they may assume you simply forgot, and your message is ambiguous.  I understood that the correct response is to leave a tip of the order of a couple of nickels, so they are left in no doubt that the value of the tip is a reflection of your opinion of the service, not simple forgetfulness...?

-Hyp.


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## Olaf the Stout (Jan 24, 2007)

After reading this thread I appreciate the fact that there is basically no tipping in Australia.  That way I don't have to worry about whether or not I'm tipping the right amount.  I have done it a few times when the service and/or the food was really good but that was in a nice restaurant, not from a pizza delivery.  Even then it wasn't a huge amount.

On the other hand, Australia has minimum wage laws so it's not like the person is getting paid next to nothing without the tip money.

Olaf the Stout


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## Dire Bare (Jan 24, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Isn't there a law in the US that if a worker's wage plus tips is less than minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference?
> 
> Or is it if the tips they receive is less than n% of the receipts over that period, or something?
> 
> -Hyp.




I'm no law or tax expert, but did spend many years waiting tables.  Jobs that have most of their income as tips or commissions are exempt from federal minimum wage rules, but often are not exempt from state rules.  In all the states I've worked in (just Idaho and Utah), the minimum wage for a job like this was like $2-3 per hour, plus your tips.

You are required by law to report your all of your tips to the IRS, but nobody in their right mind claims ALL their tips!  Most waiters claim an even 8-10% on their tax return forms (in my experience anyways).

I'm also pretty sure that if your wage + tips don't equal the federal minimum, that the company does have to make up the difference, but this would be per year, not per evening or week or anything . . . and it really just never comes into play.

If you don't tip your waiter or your pizza delivery guy at all, your just a cheap jerk.  And you'll develop a reputation of being a bad tipper and if you order repeatedly from the same place, well, you'll be lucky if long delivery times are all you get.

Conversely, if you tip well for good service, you'll develop a reputation for being a good tipper and you will usually receive better service from the same restaurant.  Plus, it's the right thing to do and you'll be reincarnated into a higher form after you die!  

I have a good friend who, along with his wife, are just terrible tippers everywhere they go.  They also tend to frequent the same restaurants and order pizza from the same places.  They are constantly amazed at how bad service is in our area and how long it takes to order pizza!!  They just don't seem to get it (even though I've explained it more than once), that the service people know they are going to get stiffed and make them bottom priority.  Oh well, some people (even good people) just never learn . . .

_Edit:  Although, I suppose my stance on not tipping making you a jerk obviously does not apply to our Aussie and Kiwi friends on the boards here!  Just us silly Americans!_


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 24, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> I'm also pretty sure that if your wage + tips don't equal the federal minimum, that the company does have to make up the difference, but this would be per year, not per evening or week or anything . . . and it really just never comes into play.




But it means that the "They need your tips to live!" argument is less compelling, since their annual income cannot be less than someone on an untipped minimum wage would receive?



> They just don't seem to get it (even though I've explained it more than once), that the service people know they are going to get stiffed and make them bottom priority.  Oh well, some people (even good people) just never learn . . .




So a strategy for maximum efficiency would be to tip well anywhere you are a 'regular', and not at all anywhere you won't be recognised?  

-Hyp.


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## Ranger REG (Jan 24, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> If you don't tip your waiter or your pizza delivery guy at all, your just a cheap jerk.  And you'll develop a reputation of being a bad tipper and if you order repeatedly from the same place, well, you'll be lucky if long delivery times are all you get.



Then order from a different place.


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## BroccoliRage (Jan 24, 2007)

Dude, that guy already gets a paycheck, you're tips aren't being declared..

don't tip him. if he says he doesn't have change, tell him you don't want the pizza, then. 

magically, they always have change they forgot about.


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## BroccoliRage (Jan 24, 2007)

furthermore, he isn't paid the same way as a waitress, with the business augmenting his tips. TRUST ME, I was a pizza delivery guy at one time not too long ago. He gets a full paycheck in addition to what you're paying him. Don't tip him.

Here's a good tip for him:

"Invest in college".


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## awayfarer (Jan 24, 2007)

It depends. If he mouths off or gets real snarky, usually about degrees. I may tip him to 77 or more if he's really bent out of shape. Generally if they're nice I don't tip them at all, I figure they're fine the way they are.

One fun thing to do, just before you tip them, say, "Whats your angle?" they never see it coming.


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## Stormborn (Jan 24, 2007)

Generally I tip the pizza guy a dollar or two and whatever makes it an even number.  

Except this one time...

I was coming over to my girlfriends after work and asked her to order a pizza for us because I knew that she didnt want to go out that night.  Now, I am no stickler about the temperature of my pizza and so was hoping she would order it before I got there.  She however waited until the last possible moment before I would arrive to order the pizza so that "it would be hot for me."

What she didnt know was that the engagement ring I had order for her had come in that day and it was burnign a hole in my pocket.  I had thought to wait until the weekend but she and I had talked about how she wanted it to be a suprise and I had already talked to her family and mine about me ordering a ring for her.  I just didnt think I was going to be able to keep her in the dark so I had decided on proposing that night.

So all day long I am getting worked up about asking her.  

I get there an no pizza - which I wasnt interested in anyway and knew she wouldnt really want afterwards but was mainly to maintain the illusion of a quiet evening in front of the TV togther.  She has just ordered it.  

A more patient man would have waited.  I was about to bust.

I get the box out of my pocket, get down on one knee, and ask her to marry me.

She starts crying and reapeating over and over "IloveyouIloveyouIloveyouIloveyou..."

The doorbell rings.

I put the box back in my pocket and go to the door and hand the guy a $20 for a $10 pizza and shut the door.   

I put the pizza down and return to her at the couch, get back down on one knee, open the box and ask again.

"IloveyouIloveyouIloveyouIloveyou..."

"Is that a yes?"  I ask.

"Yesyesyesyes...."  you get the picture.

After much crying on her part, kissing and hugging, and calling of parents, siblings, and friends I think I, at some point, ate two slices of pizza.  We wound up eating most of it the next day after all her calculations about timing it so that it would hot for me. 

That was the one and only time I tipped someone for as much or more than the food cost.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jan 24, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> The U.S. has a minimum wage law, as well, though, at the moment, it's a very low wage, and it hasn't increased in something like 15 years.  (Many states have instituted higher minimums.)
> 
> In addition, as LightPhoenix notes, in some jobs in which tipping is expected (e.g., waiters), the minimum wage apparently doesn't apply.  I'm not sure if "delivery driver" is among those that are exempt from the minimum.




North Carolina has upped their minimum wage to $6.15, a whole dollar higher than the Federal minimum wage.

Waitstaff makes a base salary of $2.13/hr plus tips. 

From what I heard from a friend who was a pizza delivery guy, they make at least minimum wage plus any tips, hence why he says not to tip them as much as one would do waitstaff.


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## buzzard (Jan 24, 2007)

I'm pretty much a universal 20% tipper. I will venture up from that, but I rarely go below. It doesn't matter the context (except buffets, which I usually don't tip much for unless the server is amazing, which is hard with just soft drinks). 

I did once get in a habbit of really generous tipping when there was a bar by roomate and I frequented every week for imports night. There was one server there who we liked, and we got into her section if we could by any means. The other server was flat out lousy. But our waitress kicked butt and took names. I pretty much drank the same thing every time (hey Whitbread Pale Ale for $2 a bottle is nothing to sneeze at). Our waitress was so good, that I didn't even have to ask for my next drink. If my bottle was down around 1/4 level, I'd have a new one without asking. Now that was service. We left VERY ample tips. 

buzzard


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## Mark CMG (Jan 24, 2007)

On tipping, error to the generous side.  Start with ten percent with delivery, fifteen to twenty percent with wait staff, and twenty-five percent with bartenders.  Add that percentage to the total then round up to the next nearest dollar on the total bill to even out your credit card or what you hand the person in paper money.  The benefits you will garner from being recognized as a generous tipper far outweigh the coins you save, and the average service you will receive in the future, by calculating exact or lowball tips.


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## Pyrex (Jan 24, 2007)

Pizza Guys:  10% or $2, whichever is higher. 

Waitstaff:  0% to 30% based upon quality of service.


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## Mycanid (Jan 24, 2007)

I must admit that I have always felt extremely sorry for waiters and waitresses, and generally tip them 15-20%, unless the service is just from an "I don't care - how dare you disturb me here at work - #E%^%$$ freakazoid...." angle. [Yes ... I have come across that from time to time - how they keep their jobs I will never know. They probably don't.  :\ ]

The delivery guys though ... well, since I live WAY off the beaten track I don't order pizza too often. But sometimes when I will go and visit a friend we will order one. I have a friend in nearby Chico who I visit every 6 weeks or so who just got married and we pretty regularly order the same pizza from the same place. These guys have always been on time, and the service has been normal - sometimes even friendly (in a genuine way too). In such cases when I am paying I usually tip 15%, always rounding up.

When I lived in Syracuse (19 years ago!   ) I used to order pizza a lot more ... I kept to the same tipping standard. And like Roderigo earlier pointed out, if a place gets to know that you regularly tip they WILL deliver to you earlier and faster.  We were gamers, and we would order just before midnight - usually on Friday evenings - so the place was used to us. "You those guys down on Ellis Street?" "Yeah." "Same old same old?" "Yeah" "'Kay ... be there in 15 minutes."

Makes me giggle to think about it.

Perhaps there is a little bit of guilt too in my tipping the deliverers, now that I think about it, for some of the stunts we used to pull on the poor guys. Hmm....


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## Agamon (Jan 24, 2007)

North American customers are not the best tippers, generally speaking.  Always leave at least 15%, pizza guy, waitress, whatever.  Don't leave nothing if the service sucks, leave something insiginificant if the service is really poor, (and only if that bad service is all the server's fault), that way they know they need to shape up and not that you are forgetful or don't tip.

I delivered pizza in high school.  I got paid per delivery, so tips were necessary to make a decent wage when it wasn't incredibly busy.


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## Olaf the Stout (Jan 25, 2007)

Agamon said:
			
		

> I delivered pizza in high school.  I got paid per delivery, so tips were necessary to make a decent wage when it wasn't incredibly busy.




Of course that also meant that you weren't actually "working" as such when it wasn't busy!    

Olaf the Stout


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 25, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> When I lived in Syracuse (19 years ago!   ) I used to order pizza a lot more ... I kept to the same tipping standard. And like Roderigo earlier pointed out, if a place gets to know that you regularly tip they WILL deliver to you earlier and faster.  We were gamers, and we would order just before midnight - usually on Friday evenings - so the place was used to us. "You those guys down on Ellis Street?" "Yeah." "Same old same old?" "Yeah" "'Kay ... be there in 15 minutes."




A friend of mine once lived in an apartment with about nine people.  One wall of the living room was lined - up to a height of over six feet - with empty pizza boxes.

One of the flatmates could, apparently, pick up the phone, hit speed dial, say "Hi - my order, please," and hang up... and the pizza would be there in ten minutes.

-Hyp.


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## Xyanthon (Jan 25, 2007)

I pretty much universally tip 20% (even at buffets).  In the past couple of years, I've become a bit more prosperous and feel that unless the service is truely awfuly and it is the server's fault(in which case I'll usually just leave 50 cents or a quarter), I'll always leave a good tip.  As for delivery guys, I almost always give at least 20% sometimes more if the wheather is bad.  I have felt conflicted about picking up carry out and usually don't tip in such a situation.  However, when I lived in Seattle, there was a Chinese resturaunt that I frequently ordered carry out from.  I always tipped the hostess as the food was always good and the service was great when my wife and I would dine in.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jan 31, 2007)

I'm surprised that this website hasn't come up yet, but check out http://tipthepizzaguy.com/.

They have some really good reasons for tipping: http://tipthepizzaguy.com/general/

And personally, I usually always tip $4 - $5 for delivery, more in really bad weather. Some pizza places pay minimum wage (which I know from experience you cannot live on) and others pay the minimum wage for tipped employees (like waitstaff) - which I think is $2 - $3 per hour, plus the drivers are using their own cars. Don't be cheap. What's an extra couple of dollars to you at the end of the day? Probably less than it is to the driver.


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## Ranger REG (Feb 1, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> One of the flatmates could, apparently, pick up the phone, hit speed dial, say "Hi - my order, please," and hang up... *and the pizza would be there in ten minutes.*



Hot or cold?


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 1, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Hot or cold?




Hot - they were only a few doors away, I believe.

-Hyp.


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## Numion (Feb 1, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Threads like this always make me happy that tipping in New Zealand is pretty much unheard of.




It's the same in Finland. No tipping. 

Sometimes when ordering pizza in a hangover and the dude keeps fumbling with his coin pouch I'll round to next €5. I even suspect they do that on purpose


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## XO (Feb 1, 2007)

*Incredibly Funny*

Sorry guys!

I once read an article that stated the amount of tipping in any given country is directly proportional to how "anally retentive" (that's a direct quote) the inhabitants are...

I really am not (the above), so tipping is a 10-15% deal, with extraordinary service reaching 20% (such as waiter really going out of his way when you take gf / wife out for anniversary).

Europeans are even less... They "round up" leaving the small change.

For the delivery charge, they should be drawn and quartered.

For the driver's tip, consider a variation of you're a working man or not. $1 would have been ok unless you make him walk half-a-mile and cruise the elevator highway to reach your door.

25% for a barman? Nahhhh! They make more money than you do! A good barman in a decent city at a good (not the best) bar will make $50k-$60K a year working three nights a week.

I really found it a riot when waiters / servers / people who lovingly bring food over unilaterally decided that they SHOULD get 20% instead of 15%... These are some of the few people who actually DO get wage increase as their end grows with the inflation of meal prices.


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## EnglishScribe (Feb 1, 2007)

Don't tip anybody, anything, ever.

If you work for an employer who refuses to pay you a sensible wage for the job you are doing, change jobs.


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## LightPhoenix (Feb 1, 2007)

XO said:
			
		

> 25% for a barman? Nahhhh! They make more money than you do! A good barman in a decent city at a good (not the best) bar will make $50k-$60K a year working three nights a week.




I have a few friends that are bartenders, and they make about as much as I did working as a lab tech at a hospital.  Of course, they also work at a college bar (SU - Chuck's), which helps a lot.

That said, it's gotta be a pretty rich city and a really busy bar for them to be making that much money, especially on three nights a week.  Syracuse is a mid-sized city, and I would say the bartenders I know (one a head bartender) bring in maybe $35k a year.  True, they lose out in business in December and the summer (college bar), but they also do a _lot_ more business on the off days (Sunday-Wednesday) than any other bar here.  So I think it tends to balance out.

I would say maybe LA or NYC you might get $50k, if you worked a really popular club with a rich clientelle.  The real money for bartending is a place like Vegas or Atlantic City, or a popular cruise spot like Aruba.  If you can do flair, you can make great money in those places.


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## LightPhoenix (Feb 1, 2007)

EnglishScribe said:
			
		

> Don't tip anybody, anything, ever.
> 
> If you work for an employer who refuses to pay you a sensible wage for the job you are doing, change jobs.




I'm not sure how it works in England, but here in the States many jobs, such as waiting tables and delivery, get paid very little due to wages earned from tipping.  Not tipping those types of service jobs is considered rude at best.


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## IcyCool (Feb 1, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how it works in England, but here in the States many jobs, such as waiting tables and delivery, get paid very little due to wages earned from tipping.  Not tipping those types of service jobs is considered rude at best.




I know that when I was waiting tables (12 years ago now), employees who were classified as "tipped" were taxed on 8% of their sales, because it was assumed that they made at least that much in tips.  So if you didn't tip your server, you were really screwing them because not only did they not get your tip, they were still taxed on it.  As such, I always tip a minimum of 10%.


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## drothgery (Feb 1, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how it works in England, but here in the States many jobs, such as waiting tables and delivery, get paid very little due to wages earned from tipping.  Not tipping those types of service jobs is considered rude at best.




I find tipping somewhat annoying, but the conventional wisdom is that places where tipping is common tend to get better service than places where it's not. Which should be expected, but it's still annoying. And since waiters and bartenders make most of their money in tips, stiffing them seems like a bad idea unless the service really sucks.


----------



## Wycen (Feb 1, 2007)

I try to tip the pizza guy and hair cutters about the same, $2 or $3's, but I don't know if the amount you tip is supposed to go up each year like the cost of living or what.  I suppose that's covered by the actual cost of goods.


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## hackmastergeneral (Feb 1, 2007)

I always tip, its easy in Nova Scotia, as our HST tax is 15%, so I just tip the tax.

Minimum wage here is a joke, so the tip is always a bigger deal to that guy than it is to me.  Pizza delivery guys get  on, and have a helluva time with insurance and car repairs.

Plus, if we like pizza at a place, we order from there ALL the time.  So, we get to know the delivery guys (they usually see our number on call display - we once had a order taker tell us our order before we told it to him, so often did they call).  They treat us well, as my gaming group is full of large, hungry guys who order more than twice a week.

We know the owner of the chinese place we order from, and he's a fantastically friendly guy, so we tip them well.

Theres no reason not to tip, unless you're a cheapskate, or live somewhere where tipping is not expected.  In North America, it is, and you should.  Service and delivery people have  work, and deal with nothing but crap all day, for next to nothing.


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## hackmastergeneral (Feb 1, 2007)

EnglishScribe said:
			
		

> Don't tip anybody, anything, ever.
> 
> If you work for an employer who refuses to pay you a sensible wage for the job you are doing, change jobs.




Nice attitude to have, when you are in a position of comfort.  When ALL the jobs you get give you craop pay, due to lack of education/opportu7nity to improve, your attitude on tipping changes immensely.

The people who are the closest to the poverty line, or who have been in their lives, are always the best tippers, on a consistant basis.  The middle/upper middle classes are the worst, cause they've lived their lives in relative comfort, and don't know what it means to depend on tips to eat that week.  Rich folks tip well cause it doesn't matter to them.  But they don't often order pizza.


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## Ranger REG (Feb 2, 2007)

Numion said:
			
		

> It's the same in Finland. No tipping.



Will they arrest me if I tip service personnel (like waiters or carriers) in Finland?


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## xrpsuzi (Feb 2, 2007)

Joe was delivering pizzas when we started dating (I ate a lot of discounted PapaJohns ) and my younger brother is currently deliverying pizzas while he job hunts and his wife's in law school.

While their base pay is higher than wait staff, waitstaff doesn't have to drive to serve you, dodge large dogs that are not chained up at night, consult a map to find the very edge of their delivery area by the dim light of car ajar, etc. No service job is easy, but we always over tip our pizzamen.
-Suzi


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## Ranger REG (Feb 3, 2007)

Who would date pizza delivery guy? I figured the guy must already have a girlfriend before he took the job. I mean, would girls pick him up from a dating service or a speed dating session?


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Feb 3, 2007)

I'm usually a 20% tipper, a result of my wife waiting tables during & after college.  It's tied to service, though -- I don't tip at take out, or buffets, where I'm not actually being provided a service.  Pizza guys I'll throw a buck or two, though I'm reluctant to do that if there's a delivery charge.  After all, the only service they're providing is to deliver the pizza, and if I'm already paying for that ... it's not like they hang around to refill my drink.

The ones that irk me are the places that put a "mandatory" 15-18% "gratuity" on their bill.  Not only does that still the waitstaff, who I'd usually tip more, but the idea of a required "gratuity" seems akin to paying "protection" money.  Then again, this is Jersey ...


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## Darth K'Trava (Feb 3, 2007)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> The ones that irk me are the places that put a "mandatory" 15-18% "gratuity" on their bill.  Not only does that still the waitstaff, who I'd usually tip more, but the idea of a required "gratuity" seems akin to paying "protection" money.  Then again, this is Jersey ...




The only times I've seen that is in regards to large groups. To make sure the waitstaff doesn't get stiffed out of tips. I think it should be allowed to be removed if the service sucks. Why should I pay 15-20% if I don't get good service?


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## Chimera (Feb 4, 2007)

Haven't done Pizza delivery in a long, long time.  Generally a few bucks, don't usually bother figuring percentage.

Restaurants:  Minimum 15%, usually more like 25%.

With two exceptions in the past 15 years:

1> Italian Restaurant, mid-day.  Only one other couple in the place.  Waitress is blatantly ignoring us.  I literally threw a fork about 40' to gain her attention at one point, this after yelling across the empty restaurant for her several times.

We walk out and the 80+ year old owner is sitting up front at the cash register.  Mama D herself, if any TC people are reading this.  She's long gone now.  No tip for the waitress, a little story about our service for Mama D.

2>  Billabongs (Aussie theme steak place) about five years ago.  Out for dinner with another couple.  Waitress is serious space case, probably high.  Doesn't know anything.  NOT A THING.  Disappears after taking our drink orders.  We have to flag down a manager and ask, whereby she reappears WITH THE WRONG DRINKS AND FLAT BEER.  Disappears when asked to bring the correct drinks and beer.  We finally get from another waiter later.  Comes back and takes our dinner orders, but it requires several attempts for each of us in order for her to get them right.  Disappears.  An hour and a half later we're again flagging down the manager.  Another 45 minutes later and we finally get our meals.  We never see space case again.

I left exact change for the bill.  Not one penny for a tip.

I don't like NOT leaving a tip.  But in the extremis of this kind of service, NADA.


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## Seonaid (Feb 4, 2007)

This is interesting. I was gaming once this past year and we decided to order pizza, and for some reason I ended up paying for it (I think I charged it). I gave the guy 10%, whereupon he _asked me for more_ money. I refused, because I generally tip around 10 for delivery, but when I told my gaming group this, they were appalled. Apparently, I should have tipped the same as for waitstaff. This thread makes me think perhaps not? I can't tell what the consensus is. 

Anyway, for waitstaff, I tip a minimum of 15% no matter what. If the service is excellent, I'll go as high as 25% or even 30. If the service is poor, I tip 15. The only time I leave less than 15 is if I forget (which has only happened once or twice). I do not tip pick-up, unless I really like the people/place or I've made a complicated order. Then, I'll do around 10. I'll tip 10 for buffets, 15 or 20 if it's really good.

As for bartenders, I tend to tip really well since generally I'm tipping per drink, but it really burns me to tip them because 1) I believe they get paid more than waitstaff and 2) they aren't doing anything for me other than mixing my drinks and handing them to me. If I were to sit around and chew the bartender's ear off, I wouldn't mind tipping 50%. But when I'm expected to give a dollar or two for a drink that's less than five? No way, that's freaking ridiculous. Edit: and yet I do it anyway, because it's what's expected.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Feb 4, 2007)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> No way, that's freaking ridiculous. Edit: and yet I do it anyway, because it's what's expected.




No need to cave to expectations.  Would they stop serving if you didn't tip a buck a drink?  It's hardly a gratuity if it is expected.


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## Seonaid (Feb 5, 2007)

Too troo, too troo. I am a slave to the system!


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## ssampier (Feb 5, 2007)

A few bucks, I rarely do the math in my head. I am not a very demanding customer, so I selfishly tip less.

The only time I tip reasonably well is gambling. It's just chips (checks), you don't notice every silver.



			
				Chimera said:
			
		

> 2>  Billabongs (Aussie theme steak place) about five years ago.  Out for dinner with another couple.
> ...
> I left exact change for the bill.  Not one penny for a tip.
> 
> I don't like NOT leaving a tip.  But in the extremis of this kind of service, NADA.




You're nicer than I would be. I would have expected our meals or a future meal comped. I waited over an hour for Domino's pizza carry-out. I got the pizza free; not much, but I took it.


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## Waldorf (Feb 6, 2007)

I used to deliver pizza when I was younger. Most of my customers quickly came to realize the importance of tipping.

You see, deliverymen depend on their tips, just like waitresses.

So always tip your pizzaman AT LEAST 15%, lest your next pizza be late... 

or worse.


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## kenobi65 (Feb 6, 2007)

hackmastergeneral said:
			
		

> Plus, if we like pizza at a place, we order from there ALL the time.  So, we get to know the delivery guys (they usually see our number on call display - we once had a order taker tell us our order before we told it to him, so often did they call).  They treat us well, as my gaming group is full of large, hungry guys who order more than twice a week.




Yeah.  Our Friday night group had a particular pizzeria that we ordered from for years.  We only played (and, thus, only ordered) once a month or so, so we probably weren't their best customers, but they definitely recognized us, and I suspect they expedited our orders a bit as a result of that.

They apparently went out of business a few months ago; we're all sad.


----------



## kenobi65 (Feb 6, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Who would date pizza delivery guy? I figured the guy must already have a girlfriend before he took the job. I mean, would girls pick him up from a dating service or a speed dating session?




Not dating per se, but...

My first D&D DM was a pizza delivery driver when he was in college.  This would have been the mid 1970s, and there was only one place in Green Bay that did pizza delivery, and so they were always very busy.

He went to deliver a pizza one night, and the woman of the house answered the door without a stitch on.  She said, with a grin, "Sorry, but I don't have any money." Eric's response: "Sorry, but you don't have any pizza, either," as he left.


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## frankthedm (Feb 6, 2007)

Waldorf said:
			
		

> So always tip your pizzaman AT LEAST 15%, lest your next pizza be late...
> 
> or worse.



And there is why one should never tip. Tipping people makes them expect a tip, when it should be a special bonus, not a bribe to keep saliva out of my food. Thankfully nowadays that crap sometimes gets justice... http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1026051loogie1.htm


			
				EnglishScribe said:
			
		

> Don't tip anybody, anything, ever.
> 
> If you work for an employer who refuses to pay you a sensible wage for the job you are doing, change jobs.



 Damn right.


----------



## Arkham (Feb 7, 2007)

I generally just throw on a $5, for pizzas, which averages out to between 20% and 14% depending on how much we ordered that day.

At restaurants, though, I'm overly generous, having worked at a Denny's once as waitstaff. If the service is decent, then at least 20% goes to tip. Up to 50% if we're just ordering coffee and appetizers though, and taking up a booth for hours.

But I must say, hippies are some of the best tippers. I worked at the closest Denny's to the local concert venue, and the best nights were always the Grateful Dead shows.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 7, 2007)

BroccoliRage said:
			
		

> furthermore, he isn't paid the same way as a waitress, with the business augmenting his tips. TRUST ME, I was a pizza delivery guy at one time not too long ago. He gets a full paycheck in addition to what you're paying him. Don't tip him.



Well then, TRUST ME as well.  I briefly and recently worked for a food delivery place in town (as about the only job I could find while going to school full-time with a ridiculously complicated schedule).  Here's what I was paid:  four bucks a delivery, plus keep any tips i earned.  I provided car and gas.

That might sound like a good deal, especially since some nights I'd bring home $70-80.  But I also kept a spreadsheet of my mileage and tips, and I calculated real car costs based on the IRS estimates for operating a personal vehicle for business purposes.  I found out that I only exceeded minimum wage one night.  I tended to earn around $3-$4 an hour.  And there was one night when I actually paid for the privilege of delivering folks' food all night long.

Different delivery places have different business models, which makes it very difficult to figure out what to tip.  I was a very polite delivery guy, but there were times when I was biting back almost seething rage at having driven half an hour through mountainous terrain down gravel roads to deliver some multimillionaire's gourmet dinner and have them meet me at their mansion door with a three dollar tip.

That's the only job I have ever quit without notice.  I figured if they were going to treat me like an independent contractor, I didn't owe them 2 weeks notice.

Daniel


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## Pielorinho (Feb 7, 2007)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> And there is why one should never tip.



If you go to a restaurant in a society where tips are assumed, you are deceiving the restaurant and the server by eating the meal and not tipping, in my opinion.  You may do this ethically by prefacing you meal with this,

"Hi, I'd like a table for one, please.  And be aware that I will not leave a tip."

This allows your server to make the same free-will decision that you make.  You decide whether to engage in a financial transaction with them; they decide whether to provide service for your money.

If you do this, then any way the situation ends up (they serve you, they eject you from the restaurant, they put you on the lowest priority below tipping customers), you've acted ethically.  If you do not do this, then I believe you're acting dishonestly, defrauding the server out of their labor through false pretenses.  And really, if your goal is not to deceive them, why not let them know your intentions regarding tipping?

Daniel


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## Ranger REG (Feb 7, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> He went to deliver a pizza one night, and the woman of the house answered the door without a stitch on.  She said, with a grin, "Sorry, but I don't have any money." Eric's response: "Sorry, but you don't have any pizza, either," as he left.



Wow. That woman must be hairy.


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## kenobi65 (Feb 7, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Wow. That woman must be hairy.




Chuckle...I'm not sure.  Obviously, my friend was caught off-guard.


----------



## Ranger REG (Feb 7, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Chuckle...I'm not sure.  Obviously, my friend was caught off-guard.



And had an sudden epiphany? That he's gay?   

When life offers you melons, take those damn things!


----------



## kenobi65 (Feb 7, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> And had an sudden epiphany? That he's gay?
> 
> When life offers you melons, take those damn things!




As Capt. Jack Sparrow once said, "If you were looking for the opportune moment, that was it."

Undoubtedly one of those circumstances where, five minutes later, he was kicking himself. 

Either that, or she *did* have a lot of facial hair and a wart, and he just never told us that bit.


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## DaveMage (Feb 8, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> As Capt. Jack Sparrow once said, "If you were looking for the opportune moment, that was it."
> 
> Undoubtedly one of those circumstances where, five minutes later, he was kicking himself.
> 
> Either that, or she *did* have a lot of facial hair and a wart, and he just never told us that bit.




Or maybe he was just hungry and wanted the pizza for himself.

Gotta have priorities...


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## LightPhoenix (Feb 8, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Yeah.  Our Friday night group had a particular pizzeria that we ordered from for years.  We only played (and, thus, only ordered) once a month or so, so we probably weren't their best customers, but they definitely recognized us, and I suspect they expedited our orders a bit as a result of that.
> 
> They apparently went out of business a few months ago; we're all sad.




Yeah, I routinely get expedited orders and free stuff from places I order from/go to a lot because they know I'll tip well, especially for a student.  Let me tell you the joys of getting fifty dollars of alcohol and spending five dollars on it...


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## dragonhead (Feb 8, 2007)

pay the nearest five amount. if it is $13, give $15. if it is $21, give $25. thats what i do


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## Lobo Lurker (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't tip at all... but then again, a 10% tip is figured into all prices down here in Costa Rica.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 8, 2007)

dragonhead said:
			
		

> pay the nearest five amount. if it is $13, give $15. if it is $21, give $25. thats what i do



If you're in Missouri, this is going to mean that sometimes you're tipping far less than the wait staff expect you to tip.  For example, if your bill comes to $34, a tip of $5-$7 is expected and standard.  If you tip $1, you're receiving service from the wait staff for which they are expecting payment, *and for which you know they are expecting payment*, without paying for it.

There are two honorable things to do in such a circumstance.  The first is to engage in the transaction as expected, to tip at least 15%.  The second is to let the wait-staff know, PRIOR TO BEING SEATED, that you plan to tip them according to some other standard, e.g., by rounding up to the nearest five amount.  Do you do either of these things?

Daniel


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## takyris (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd just note that anyone who thinks they are bucking the system by not tipping isn't bucking anything. They're screwing with the lads and ladies at the bottom of the food chain. That rarely if ever results in changes at the top.

If you want to be a jerk, be a jerk, but don't delude yourself by saying it's a matter of principle. It's you not wanting to pay more, despite the system being set up that way.

Anyone who doesn't tip should really try a year or two in a profession in which tips are an expected part of your income. I know what it feels like to be on your feet all day, smiling despite whatever the hell is going on in your own life because you're in the service industry. I also know when somebody is trying and when somebody is phoning it in. I will quite happily drop 20% or more on somebody who's nice and helpful (20% is my default tip for good service), and I will also give the $0.25 tip to the person who jerks me around.


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## Ranger REG (Feb 8, 2007)

takyris said:
			
		

> Anyone who doesn't tip should really try a year or two in a profession in which tips are an expected part of your income. I know what it feels like to be on your feet all day, smiling despite whatever the hell is going on in your own life because you're in the service industry. I also know when somebody is trying and when somebody is phoning it in. I will quite happily drop 20% or more on somebody who's nice and helpful (20% is my default tip for good service), and I will also give the $0.25 tip to the person who jerks me around.



As opposed to being a McD's helper?


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## Sidekick (Feb 9, 2007)

$10 US for a pizza? Dude you are getting ripped off!!! Or at least those of you in the US are.

Admittedly it’s expensive here but back home in NZ (tip free as Hype has mentioned) Dominoe’s and Pizza Hut are in FIERCE FIERCE competition.

When I’m home I refuse to pay more that abour 7-8 NZ dollars for a pizza.

On a good day that can go as low at $4!!!

Hype – they still doing that?

If not that’s sad and will make baby jesus cry…


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## Arkham (Feb 10, 2007)

Sidekick said:
			
		

> $10 US for a pizza? Dude you are getting ripped off!!! Or at least those of you in the US are.
> 
> Admittedly its expensive here but back home in NZ (tip free as Hype has mentioned) Dominoes and Pizza Hut are in FIERCE FIERCE competition.
> 
> ...




I can't speak for anyone else, but I get pizza for quality, not price. I wouldn't order from Domino's if they were the only ones in town. And I only get Pizza Hut if I'm at the drive through and want some quick greasy cheese. I'll get Uno's, Pizza Chicago, or Round Table instead where a $25 extra large all meat means something more than cardboard and bits of chunky grease... Some place that makes pizza with some heft and real content.


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## Ranger REG (Feb 10, 2007)

Sidekick said:
			
		

> $10 US for a pizza? Dude you are getting ripped off!!! Or at least those of you in the US are.
> 
> Admittedly it’s expensive here but back home in NZ (tip free as Hype has mentioned) Dominoe’s and Pizza Hut are in FIERCE FIERCE competition.
> 
> ...



Well, considering the exchange rate from USD to NZD is $1.00(US):$1.47(NZ), that's about right.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 10, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Well, considering the exchange rate from USD to NZD is $1.00(US):$1.47(NZ), that's about right.



WOudln't that mean that US$10US is equivalent to NZ$14.70?  If he objects to paying more than $7 for a pizza, that'd be like my objecting to paying more than $5.  Honestly, I'm pretty skeptical of any pizza that costs less than $10:  I'm worried it'll taste like ketchup on cardboard.

Daniel


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## Harmon (Feb 10, 2007)

For me its simple- no delivery charge, then 30-60% tip, with a devivery charge no tip.  Drivers that complain about that need to talk to their bosses.


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## punkorange (Feb 11, 2007)

I have to get in on this topic 
I deliver for pizza hut here, there's a $1.50 delivery charge and we get 75 cents of that at the end of the night, which does not make up for a tip.

If your going to tip, 2 bucks is fine, 4 is a good tip and your address will be remembered as priority.  Giving me 15 bucks for a 14.62 order with a cheerfull keep the change is insulting.  It makes me want to give them their .38 cents back and tell them if they don't want to tip me, that's fine, but I do'nt need to keep the change for their convenience.


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 11, 2007)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> I'm worried it'll taste like ketchup on cardboard.




Ah, you _have_ tried our Dominos, then?  

My preference in pizza is to make my own; Rebecca ordered one in last night, and it wasn't great... and that was from Hell, which is the best of the chain stores we have at the moment.

-Hyp.


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## Ranger REG (Feb 12, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Ah, you _have_ tried our Dominos, then?
> 
> My preference in pizza is to make my own; Rebecca ordered one in last night, and it wasn't great... and that was from Hell, which is the best of the chain stores we have at the moment.



The one that delivers in four minutes or less?


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## Pielorinho (Feb 12, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Ah, you _have_ tried our Dominos, then?
> 
> My preference in pizza is to make my own; Rebecca ordered one in last night, and it wasn't great... and that was from Hell, which is the best of the chain stores we have at the moment.
> 
> -Hyp.



Homemade pizza is doubtless the best.  Doing it right is a pain in the butt, but it's so freakin' good; I do it about once a year.

Daniel


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## Sidekick (Feb 12, 2007)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> WOudln't that mean that US$10US is equivalent to NZ$14.70?  If he objects to paying more than $7 for a pizza, that'd be like my objecting to paying more than $5.  Honestly, I'm pretty skeptical of any pizza that costs less than $10:  I'm worried it'll taste like ketchup on cardboard.
> 
> Daniel



Well call me a cynic, but if your ordering a pizza from a fsat food joint you can't really expect quality.

ever.

Like Hype mentioned Hell is the most upmarket place in N| and they've got steadily worse over the last 5 years. Ahh I remember when there was only two of those babies and I could walk to the original store at lunch from uni. ah the memories. 

Homemade is the way to go. 

Hey Hype - are burger wisonsin any good or have they finally turned crap AND overprised (they were always overpriced but the food was good...)


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 12, 2007)

Sidekick said:
			
		

> Hey Hype - are burger wisonsin any good or have they finally turned crap AND overprised (they were always overpriced but the food was good...)




Enh.  Burger Wisconsin's all right.  I think there's only one Alligator's left, and it's not as good as it used to be.  Burger Fuel is probably the big name in burgers these days, and while a lot of people swear by them, I'm kinda ambivalent.

It's hard to get a good burger any more.

-Hyp.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 12, 2007)

Sidekick said:
			
		

> Well call me a cynic, but if your ordering a pizza from a fsat food joint you can't really expect quality.



Oh, of course not.  But there's crap, and then there's cardboard with ketchup.  Some nasty fast food is appealing in its own nasty way.  Other nasty fast food makes you sorry that you're alive.

Daniel


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## ASH (Feb 13, 2007)

The only places that deliver around here are Pizza Hut or Domino's... There is another place called the Pizza Ranch and they do chicken too. The chicken is way better than the pizza...

I always thought that delievery guys made minimum wage... I honestly only tip wait staff at resteraunts because they dont get minimum. I usually tip the pizza guy if its a pain to deliever my pizza. Like really bad weather, ect... because i feel it makes his annoying trip to my house worth more. But our town is less than 30000 people and its not hard to do his job. To have him make 5.15 +tips seems like at least 9+ an hr and its just not that hard of a job to justify that kind of pay scale. At least in this cost of living.
There is a guy i used to work with who once workd as a pizza guy and he said it was better pay than bartending and waiting together because the base pay is more but people still tip close to the same scale....

I hate tipping. I wish people would just be paid for the job that they did. If i had to pay for it in cost of going to that establishment i would rather pay then, than determining the self worth of some schmo that if there is a problem its usually not theirs anyway but some issue with the kitchen staff being on crack!


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## Numion (Feb 13, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Will they arrest me if I tip service personnel (like waiters or carriers) in Finland?




Nah, it's ok, but not expected. Nobody's paid under minimum wage though (€5.45 or so), so they aren't screwed if you don't.

But the service is rarely great, either   I'm always surprised by how many people who aren't interested in serving are in the service industry


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## Pielorinho (Feb 14, 2007)

ASH said:
			
		

> I always thought that delievery guys made minimum wage... I honestly only tip wait staff at resteraunts because they dont get minimum. I usually tip the pizza guy if its a pain to deliever my pizza. Like really bad weather, ect... because i feel it makes his annoying trip to my house worth more. But our town is less than 30000 people and its not hard to do his job. To have him make 5.15 +tips seems like at least 9+ an hr and its just not that hard of a job to justify that kind of pay scale. At least in this cost of living.



As I said before, keep in mind that not all places work the same.  Where I briefly worked, I earned a flat $4+tips, and I had to pay for all car expenses out of that.  If folks didn't tip, I would have been losing money every night.

It's a sucky situation for all concerned, and it'd be nice if there were some standardization.  Until there is, if you want to play it safe and make sure you're being good to folks, you may as well tip them well.  If they don't need it, you've given them a gift; if they do, you've done what you oughta do.

Daniel


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## Sidekick (Feb 14, 2007)

*Tipping in general* Well I guess it depends on where you are and whats expected of you.

For instance here in London most places seem to expect a tip. Sure I've got no problems giving 10% if the service is good but I'll be fu*%ed if I'm going to give 12-15% for e service. That  ain't gonna happen.

But then I've got my local places that I love where I'll readily give them a £2-£3 tip even if we've only spent £15. The food great, the people are good and I plan to go back.

When I had aholiday in the states I managed to get my head around the tipping thing. I tipped my waiting staff, hotel people, bar-staff ($1/round) etc all what I thought was appropriate for their level of service (good = 15-18%, bad = small change).

Like someone else said, if you don't tip at all they just think you've forgotten, ESPECIALLY if you're a tourist or have a foreign accent. Show your displeasure with a 1cent peice or something...


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## Ranger REG (Feb 15, 2007)

Sidekick said:
			
		

> Show your displeasure with a 1cent peice or something...



Hmm. What does a US 1-cent penny convert into UK currency?


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## Walken (Feb 19, 2007)

At most, half of a delivery charge goes to a driver. This is charge for the pizza place to make more cash. Pizza Hut drivers (It might of been Dominos I cant remember) get their tips taxed by the company, so alway tip cash if you can.


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## Ranger REG (Feb 19, 2007)

Walken said:
			
		

> so *don't* alway tip cash if you can.



Got it.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 19, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Got it.



 Indeed.  If I'm gonna scold folks for not following etiquette regarding tipping, I can hardly encourage folks to help the tippees violate the law regarding taxing.  Those who order food should tip appropriate according to the social expectation, or should tell their servers/deliverers IN ADVANCE that they won't receive a tip.  Likewise, those who receive tips should pay taxes according to the legal expection, or should tell the IRS that they won't receive the required taxes.  That's the honest way to handle it.

Daniel


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 20, 2007)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> Those who order food should tip appropriate according to the social expectation, or should tell their servers/deliverers IN ADVANCE that they won't receive a tip. Likewise, those who receive tips should pay taxes according to the legal expection, or should tell the IRS that they won't receive the required taxes.  That's the honest way to handle it.




Of course, one will get you glares and poor service, while the other will get you thrown in jail...

-Hyp.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 21, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Of course, one will get you glares and poor service, while the other will get you thrown in jail...
> 
> -Hyp.



I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that the number of folks in the US who have gone to jail for not reporting their tips is vanishingly small.

Daniel


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 21, 2007)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that the number of folks in the US who have gone to jail for not reporting their tips is vanishingly small.




What's the point of having a law if you aren't going to enforce it?  

-Hyp.


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## Olaf the Stout (Feb 21, 2007)

Sidekick said:
			
		

> $10 US for a pizza? Dude you are getting ripped off!!! Or at least those of you in the US are.
> 
> Admittedly it’s expensive here but back home in NZ (tip free as Hype has mentioned) Dominoe’s and Pizza Hut are in FIERCE FIERCE competition.
> 
> ...




$10 US does sound a little on the pricey side.  Here in Australia I can get a pizza from a place near my Mum and Dad's house for $9.90 AU (about $7.50 US).  I would say their pizza is definitely on the good side of the quality scale.  I don't know if they deliver (it's a italian cafe chain that also makes takeaway pizzas) and the pizza only enough for 1 person but it's a very nice pizza.  A pizza big enough for 2 or 3 people is only a couple of dollars more.

I can get a similar pizza from Dominos, Pizza Hut or a similar chain store for as little as $4.95 (about $3.75 US) but it's a little like, "Hello, topping, are you there?".

We make our own pizzas at home occasionally but I don't think we have perfected the art yet.  We have a couple of pizza stones and the pizzas are quite nice, but I think we can do better.  I think the order in which you put the toppings down is more important than you think.  We normally put the cheese on last to hold everything together but I think it stops the other toppings from crisping up a little.

Olaf the Stout


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## kenobi65 (Feb 21, 2007)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> $10 US does sound a little on the pricey side.




Depending on where you are, who you're ordering from, and what you're ordering, it's not out of line.

Some of the big chains (Domino's, Pizza Hut, etc.) will run specials on medium-sized, single-topping pizzas for $5 each or so, but that's probably the exception.  And, as you note, quality may be a bit lacking. 

When we order pizzas for our Friday night D&D group, we're usually ordering 3 large pizzas, each with 2-3 toppings on it.  They'll usually run around $10-13 each, depending on exactly whom we're ording from (one of several local places), and whether or not we've got a coupon.  (They know us, they know we regularly order from them, they know I tip fairly well, and so the "it'll be there in an hour" is almost always more like a half-hour.)

(Admittedly, we're in the Chicago area, with no shortage of pizza places, but also with higher cost-of-living than many other areas.)


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## atom crash (Feb 21, 2007)

Just felt a need to chime in on this one. I agree profusely with:



> Originally Posted by *Pielorinho*
> There are two honorable things to do in such a circumstance. The first is to engage in the transaction as expected, to tip at least 15%. The second is to let the wait-staff know, PRIOR TO BEING SEATED, that you plan to tip them according to some other standard, e.g., by rounding up to the nearest five amount. Do you do either of these things?




and



> Originally Posted by *takyris*
> Anyone who doesn't tip should really try a year or two in a profession in which tips are an expected part of your income. I know what it feels like to be on your feet all day, smiling despite whatever the hell is going on in your own life because you're in the service industry. I also know when somebody is trying and when somebody is phoning it in. I will quite happily drop 20% or more on somebody who's nice and helpful (20% is my default tip for good service), and I will also give the $0.25 tip to the person who jerks me around.




I always tip about 15-20% for servers and delivery people. For my bartender I tip about a buck per drink, depending on the price of the drink. If I pay for my $3.50 beer with a $5 bill, I'll leave the dollar and pocket the two quarters. After all, I don't want to wait too long when I need another drink, so I keep the bartender treating me like a top priority.

I once dated a girl who had a wallet card that showed 15% of every amount between $5 and $30 and would tip *exactly* 15%, no matter what. She'd pull out her change purse and count pennies to leave the correct amount. I thought this was extremely cheesy and told her so. See, she never worked in food service, so thought she was getting ripped off by tipping. I worked in enough restaurants to know that tips are how servers pay the rent.

I acknowledge that I'm more generous than many people, but if I receive extremely poor service I will show my displeasure by tipping only 10-12%. Great service means a bigger tip, of course.

Since my wife and I usually only order out when we're too lazy to fix dinner, or the weather is rotten, or we've forgotten to take something out to thaw, I tend to round up rather than down when tipping. Heck, the delivery people are doing me a favor by bringing my food to me. If we order pizza for the game and I don't feel like the tip is enough, I'm genuinely embarrassed and will throw in an extra dollar or two.

And in the cosmic irony department: My wife just called. Since she forgot to pull the chicken out of the freezer this morning to thaw for dinner, she asked if I'd like to order out some pizza or Chinese delivery for dinner.


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## Simplicity (Feb 22, 2007)

To those who don't tip ever...

It's one thing to stand by one's principles.  It's another to stand by poorly supported principles where your stance just happens to benefit yourself while harming others.
Yes, waitstaff and delivery people expect a tip.  Especially those who did their job well.
It's a major source of their income and when you're paid little every little bit helps.

It's not protection money to kick a couple of bucks to the extremely poorly paid guy who just rushed to bring you your food.  It is, however, reprehensible to not provide that poorly paid guy money for a job done well.  

May your next pizza be dumped on your doorstep.


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## Christoph the Magus (Feb 22, 2007)

The pizza guy/gal gets 10-15% normally, 20% if the weather is crappy.  I've never worked for tips, but I have worked on commission, and I understand that tips/commission tend to make up the bulk of your check.

To those of you that don't tip:  Get your lazy butts off of the couch and go pick up the damn thing yourself.


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## Olaf the Stout (Feb 22, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Depending on where you are, who you're ordering from, and what you're ordering, it's not out of line.
> 
> Some of the big chains (Domino's, Pizza Hut, etc.) will run specials on medium-sized, single-topping pizzas for $5 each or so, but that's probably the exception.  And, as you note, quality may be a bit lacking.
> 
> ...




I also remember my Dad telling me that pizza is very different in America in that you have much fewer different toppings on your pizzas and that adding extra toppings will cost you a couple of dollars (or more) per topping.  I imagine that this could up the price of a pizza quite easily.

Here in Australia we still have our Hawaiian and Pepperoni pizzas which have very few different toppings but we also have others like Surpreme which have heaps of different toppings on it but only cost a few dollars more.  Of course, the larger the pizza, the bigger the price difference.  And this is all anecdotal of course.

Olaf the Stout


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## atom crash (Feb 22, 2007)

Olaf, tonight we picked up a large specialty pizza from Papa John's -- one of the larger chains -- for $14. It had many toppings on it and a special crust. 

The cheaper pizzas usually have one or two topping on them, plus sauce and cheese. If you get the works, it costs extra.

Of course, we could get cheaper pizza elsewhere. But I view cheap pizza like I view cheap beer or wine (or anything else for that matter) -- you definitely get what you pay for, and conversely you don't get what you don't pay for.

I can't recall ever ordering pizza when I was in Oz, but I know in Italy it's much different than what we get in the States.

BTW this is a very interesting thread.


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## kenobi65 (Feb 22, 2007)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> I also remember my Dad telling me that pizza is very different in America in that you have much fewer different toppings on your pizzas and that adding extra toppings will cost you a couple of dollars (or more) per topping.  I imagine that this could up the price of a pizza quite easily.




Yup.

Most pizza places start their pricing structure out with the price for a single topping (or, sometimes, cheese only), and then every additional topping is an additional charge (around here, a dollar or so per additional topping is pretty common).  The $5 deals that Domino's does is on a single-topping pizza.

Some places have a special "package" of toppings that they offer at a reduced price, versus adding all those toppings a la carte (Pizza Hut does this with their "Supreme" and "Meat Lover's" topping types).

But, as a general rule, if you want 4 toppings on your pizza in the U.S., you pay for it.


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## kenobi65 (Feb 22, 2007)

atom crash said:
			
		

> I can't recall ever ordering pizza when I was in Oz, but I know in Italy it's much different than what we get in the States.




And, even in the U.S., you get some significant regional variations in pizzas.

New York and Chicago are the areas that seem to be best-known for their variations, but I'm sure there are many other noteworthy ones.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 23, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> What's the point of having a law if you aren't going to enforce it?
> 
> -Hyp.



It's the lawmaker's equivalent of jumping jacks:  it keeps them in shape .  Besides, that way if Al Capone ever delivers pizza, they can nab him for not paying taxes on his tips.

Daniel


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## Ranger REG (Feb 24, 2007)

Simplicity said:
			
		

> To those who don't tip ever...
> 
> It's one thing to stand by one's principles.  It's another to stand by poorly supported principles where your stance just happens to benefit yourself while harming others.
> Yes, waitstaff and delivery people expect a tip.  Especially those who did their job well.
> ...



As a son of a school custodian, may your hedge be underneath a pile of droppings.

Tip your gardeners, be it a private or a public employee.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 24, 2007)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> As a son of a school custodian, may your hedge be underneath a pile of droppings.
> 
> Tip your gardeners, be it a private or a public employee.



Tip your gardeners if you're entering into a situation in which they are working for you under the expectation that you'll tip, and you know that they have such an expectation.  Alternatively, in such a situation, you may tell the gardener that you do not plan to tip, and you will act ethically.

Daniel


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## Waldorf (Feb 27, 2007)

punkorange said:
			
		

> I have to get in on this topic
> I deliver for pizza hut here, there's a $1.50 delivery charge and we get 75 cents of that at the end of the night, which does not make up for a tip.
> 
> If your going to tip, 2 bucks is fine, 4 is a good tip and your address will be remembered as priority.  Giving me 15 bucks for a 14.62 order with a cheerfull keep the change is insulting.  It makes me want to give them their .38 cents back and tell them if they don't want to tip me, that's fine, but I do'nt need to keep the change for their convenience.




I used to give back their pennies, too. They ALWAYS noticed that... 

and tipped better as a result.


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## hewligan (Mar 1, 2007)

I lived in New York for a couple of years after college, and as a Brit it was a difficult lesson for me about tipping. In the UK there is a minimum wage, but it is quite high (compared to US). I was told by my friends at the company I worked with in New York to top 2 times tax. I did that religiously and never got in to trouble, except once I tipped only about 5-10% because the service was terrible, food was late, waiter was rude, etc. I wanted to give nothing, but a colleague with me would not let me. When I left the restaurant the waiter actually followed me out and told me I needed to pay more. I then proceeded to ask him why. He told me 2 x tip. I asked if that was not what is known as a discretionary service charge, and since his service had been horrendous I was not going to give it to him. He started shouting and swearing at me. I walked off, but I wish I hadn't left him anything. Anyway, most times I over tip, and now in the UK I am considered a very good tipper.

Case in point: Today when picking up my kid from his nursery, his carer, who had baby sat him the Saturday night before, gave me an envelope. When I got home and opened it there was a letter with a 5 pound note (about $10) saying I had over-paid her for babysitting. She just did not understand that I had given her a tip for arriving early and doing an excellent job. I need to go to the nursery tomorrow and explain that to her. Britain - you have to love it!


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## drothgery (Mar 2, 2007)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> Indeed.  If I'm gonna scold folks for not following etiquette regarding tipping, I can hardly encourage folks to help the tippees violate the law regarding taxing.




Yup. That tipping encourages systematic tax evasion is one reason why I dislike the practice, though as per above, it does seem like you get better service where tipping is expected.


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## Ranger REG (Mar 2, 2007)

drothgery said:
			
		

> Yup. That tipping encourages systematic tax evasion is one reason why I dislike the practice, though as per above, it does seem like you get better service where tipping is expected.



IOW, their problem is not with the customers, but the one who signs their paychecks.


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