# {Vampire: The Masquerade - OOC} New York by Night



## Ashrem Bayle

I was thinking..... the games on here don't HAVE to be d20 do they?

Given the role-playing centric games that this media lends itself so good, why not play a game that is itself role-playing centric.

Well... and the fact that nobody thought of it first.  

So why not?

Anyone interested in storytelling a Vampire chronical here in the forums?


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## Dalamar

Actually, I was tossing around the idea of playing Mage: the Ascension back in the old boards. But the idea died when nobody knew if it was proper to play non-d20 games.


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## reapersaurus

are you kidding?!
LOL

I played it once, in an unfortunately-aborted campaign that really caught my interest, tho.

I'd be quite interested in playing Nikolai D'Angelo (Tremere), a tragic character inspired by Dream Theater's Scenes From a Memory. 
linked from this page


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## Ashrem Bayle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *are you kidding?!
> LOL
> *




Heck, why not? I've never heard of any mandate that said everything had to be d20.

I just love this little community we have going here. I seriously doubt I would find a better bunch of people on a White Wolf board thats for sure.

If the Mods have a problem with it, thats cool. I just thought I'd see if there was any intrest. You know, change of pace.


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## Xael

I would be interested, but I'm a terrible min-maxer and I absolutely HATE doing all kinds of histories and backgrounds. 

Also, vampires are scary.  

If we're allowed to play non-d20 games here, and the GM doesn't actively shoot people like me, I would want to play.

...ahh... ...the Tremere...


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## Ashrem Bayle

Xael said:
			
		

> *I would be interested, but I'm a terrible min-maxer and I absolutely HATE doing all kinds of histories and backgrounds.
> 
> Also, vampires are scary.  *




No offense or anything, but are you sure this is the game for you?

Min-Maxing is pretty hard, and kinda pointless in a proper Vampire game. 
Also, history and background is very important.

And yea, vampires are scary.


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## Timothy

No min/maxing?
Roleplaying?
Histories?
Backsgrounds?
Vampires?


I'M IN, ALL THE WAY!


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## Ashrem Bayle

Timothy said:
			
		

> *No min/maxing?
> Roleplaying?
> Histories?
> Backsgrounds?
> Vampires?
> 
> 
> I'M IN, ALL THE WAY! *




 

Now the question is....

Camarilla or Sabbat?

My character:
Camarilla -> Brujah or Toreador probably
Sabbat -> Tzimisce....  

I actually vote for a Sabbat game. The packs with their viniculum lend themselves well to this sort of thing. However, there are no more Tremere Antitribu in modern day White Wolf canon.

oh yea.... and we need a storyteller.


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## Xael

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *
> No offense or anything, but are you sure this is the game for you?
> *




Actually, I'm quite sure this isn't the game for me (now that I think of it). I've played V:TM once, and it was like: "Go there and do stuff".  

I can do a decent history and background if I get an inspiration, but takes a long time.

So I'm not really going to join this game, I'll just peek around the corner and look how Vampire is played properly.


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## Tokiwong

sounds fun oh rebellious one, I am in either way


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## Timothy

oh, maybe something to include: I haven't the feintest idea how it is played, I've seen it played once, copuple of years back, only hing I remember was that you need alot of the same dice (I think D10, could aslo be D6)


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## Ashrem Bayle

*COOL!*

I was just poking around over at white-wolf.com and noticed that under their "Interactive" section, they have a cool online dice roller.

Sweet.


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## Ashrem Bayle

Timothy said:
			
		

> *oh, maybe something to include: I haven't the feintest idea how it is played, I've seen it played once, copuple of years back, only hing I remember was that you need alot of the same dice (I think D10, could aslo be D6) *




D10. Your probably going to need the main book to be able to put together a character.

The good thing is, that is all you need.

Make sure that it is the Revised Edition. Guide to the Sabbat or Guide to the Camarilla is also a plus, depending on which way we go. Neither should be required though.


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## reapersaurus

I feel strongly that we should play Camarilla, NOT Sabbat.

As this sounds like it will be an introductory-type adventure for some to the World of Darkness (including myself), we should play the "standard" clans before branching into the more "advanced" clans.

It's analogous to wanting to play D&D as a core race before trying out the monster races.

Really, though, Ashram - a DM is kind of key before much discussion of a game can go on.
I guess this thread will have to just collect players (and dust) until a willing DM jumps in...  

My wife wants to try her hand at playing in the game, as well.


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## Timothy

I'll start downing it tomorrow.

My to read list has increased a lot since I went PbP-ing


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## garyh

I asked about non-d20 gaming in the IC Forum over in Meta here.  P-Kitty gave his a-okay!!

I'm not interested in V:TM, but am meaning to pursue the reason I asked Piratecat soon, for those interested (particularly in Narrating ).


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## KitanaVorr

It does sound interesting!  I'd love to try it out since I'm really more of a roleplayer than a dice roller but I don't have the Vampire book at all and I know absolutely nothing about it myself, er except that its about vampires and their clans...and that's it!


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## Jarval

Hmm, never got into Vampire, but I'll be interested to see how this goes.

You know, I'd really like to see an Ars Magica game start up here.  That could be very cool


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## Ashrem Bayle

The rules really aren't too complex. Should be easy for someone to pick up on pretty quick. It isn't as bad as D&D.

I agree Reaper. For new players, the Camarilla seven basic clans are a good idea.

Now we just need someone to actually run the game.


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## Viking Bastard

I could probably run the game if you won't feel too badly about it becoming more cinematic and less grim and broody at times, something I've found bothers WoD players sometimes.


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## Ashrem Bayle

I guess it depends on what you are talking about. I hate hack & slash Vampire games.

I don't have any interest in playing in a game of vampiric special forces or anything like that.

My character would be focused on control of his domain, increase in power and domain, and manipulating others to meet those goals.

As long as those types of things can play a part, I'd be happy.

Could you give me an example of what you are reffering to as cinematic? 

Would the game be more like Interview with the Vampire, Blade or The Lost Boys?

I tend to shy away from the "Blade" type games. I prefer focusing on politics and intrigue over guns and fangs. In retrospect, the style and atmosphere of the vampires in Blade was pretty dang good. It was just Blade himself that I didn't like.

It was cool how they pulled off the whole "underground society / all you believe is wrong" thing.

I am betting that the Storyteller will have most of his work done for him by the players. If the players have set goals and personalities for their characters, they should be able to handle driving the plot by themselves and not be force fed it like so many D&D games.

"Find the magic item" or "kill the big bad evil guy" are (IMHO) horrible concepts for Vampire games.


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## Ashrem Bayle

I was just thinking...

I've never read much of either the Giovanni Chronicals or the Transylvania Chronicals.

I'd think playing through the Transylvania Chronicals would be pretty dang cool.

We could just use the rules from Vampire: The Masquerade instead of Dark Ages so that everyone wouldn't have to have both books. Should work fine.

Its just a thought though. If we have a Storyteller with his own plot, thats cool too.


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## Viking Bastard

Hack 'n Slash V:TM?

*shudder*

I played in that kinda game once and... well... worst game of my life (and that includes a bunch of real stinkers).

I'm thinking less Anne Rice, more Mike Mignolia.

And no, no special forces.


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## perivas

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *My character would be focused on control of his domain, increase in power and domain, and manipulating others to meet those goals.
> 
> As long as those types of things can play a part, I'd be happy.
> 
> (SNIP)
> 
> "Find the magic item" or "kill the big bad evil guy" are (IMHO) horrible concepts for Vampire games. *




That's interesting...as your first statements would indicate that you would be a powerful enough vampire to claim a domain.  Considering there are so many people, who are complete newbies in the game, it might be more appropriate to run a game which includes the Embrace and plays off the lack of player knowledge of the Kindred and their Lexicon and Traditions.

As for your second comment, sometimes the Jyhad involves just that...the recovery of lost artifacts or the slaying of rogue Childe.


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## Ashrem Bayle

You're right. I was assuming we even had domains, but if we are fledglings, we wouldn't. Guess it depends on how old we will be starting out at. I have no problem with a fledgling game. New York by Night would be wonderful for this. 

After all, the Camarilla resorted to mass embraces during their raid on the city, we could be a cotorie created like that. They were created and then pretty much left to fend for themselves. I'd think they would be considred bastard children and their sires wouldn't want a lot to do with them. Perfect.

New York is also nearly devoid of a hierarchy and is ripe for young vampires to make a place for themselves.

As far as lost artifacts and rogue childer go, sure that happens, but it doesn't fit well into the typical Vampire game. Hunting rogues is the job for the Sherrifs and Scourges, or if that doesn't work, the Prince just calls a blood hunt and then everyone is after them.

Hunting artifacts isn't a real big deal since magical items and weapons are so rare as to be almost nonexistant.


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## Viking Bastard

*I'm sorry but...*

...I might have to back out.

After looking over my post-christmas vacation schedule, I'm not sure I have the time and thinking power to juggle three PbP games, school and work at the same time so...

Hope you find someone else.


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## Timothy

Sorry to hear that. I'll continue to check this thread though. Maybe Ashrem could add DM WNTED to the title


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## reapersaurus

mastermind:
very sorry to hear you back out, but I'll post my thoughts anyway:

I have absolutely no preconceptions or "I won't do this" or "I don't want to do that" when it comes to V:tM.

Anything that a Storyteller feels they want to give a go to, I will try and work my character in.

I'm not that experienced in WoD, so I'd prefer a more "basic" type campaign.
No huge background or involvement with the leaders of the clans and all that back-history.

IMO, it becomes harder and harder to play V:tM the more of that history is brought in - it becomes a straightjacket almost to just playing a coterie of vampires...


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## Ashrem Bayle

I agree with Reaper.

Antidiluvians (clan founders) have no place even in the casual conversation of fledglings. At the most they are used as boogy-men.

Heck, most wouldn't even know their founder's names.

A lot (most) of the back history isn't known to most vampires. I think the fact that it is all laid out in the books makes many Stortellers assume that the NPCs and other characters know all this as well.

They don't.

I'd bet maybe 5% of the Vampire population knows that Ravnos was killed and that is a MAJOR event. After all, it ain't like they have their own news channel.

As far as most fledglings know, the Tremere have always been there. The Sabbat are all satanists. The Antidiluvians aren't real. The Salubri dont exist or they have never heard of them. They have never heard of the Cappadocians. Like the Tremere, the Giovanni have always been there. There are only 7 or 8 clans. .etc.etc.etc.

Ignorance is bliss.


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## Ashrem Bayle

I posted over at White Wolf's forums for a Storyteller, but no luck so far.

A shame really. I'd like to see this get off the ground.


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## Festy_Dog

Hmm, would there be room for one more person who knows absolutely nothing about V:tM but is attracted by the atmosphere and the opportunity of good role-playing?

Also is there somewhere I could download a reference document or something?


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## Shalimar

I would be up for a game as well if there is still a slot.  I am pretty familiar with the world of darkness, and the storyteller system.  I have the revised rules and the Camarilla guidebook, or the Sabbat if we go that way.


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## Ashrem Bayle

If you are looking for simple refference, check out this link: http://www.white-wolf.com/vampire.html

Hey Shalimar! Glad to hear your interested.

Couldn't convince you to be the Storyteller??


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## Shalimar

Nope, you wont be able to convince me. I don't have the time needed to be the storyteller.


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## Viking Bastard

Looks like you guys have enough players for two whole parties, but still no storyteller.


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## Ashrem Bayle

Sad huh? It would take a pretty big city just to support the PCs alone.

So far we have:

Ashrem Bayle
Shalimar
Festy_Dog
Reaper
Kitana
Timothy
Tokiwong

And still no Storyteller....


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## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *And still no Storyteller....   *




Its so sad!  And I would really love to be the storyteller but I don't know anything about vampire the masquerade, I don't even have the book!  I would have to make the history up myself lol and use d20 modern  and ya'all have to be vampire hunters.


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## Ashrem Bayle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> I would have to make the history up myself lol and use d20 modern  and ya'all have to be vampire hunters. *




eeewwwww.....

If we don't get someone soon, I may have to resort to desperate measures.


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## Viking Bastard

Well, playing Vampire Hunters can be a lot of fun.

But it ain't Vampire.


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## reapersaurus

my character IS a vampire hunter.....in a way.
He's trying to hunt down a kinda-legendary vampire that killed his love.

The only reason he agrees to his Embrace is to acquire the power to actually hurt the thing.

And if my wife can play (she would be very interested in doing so), her character's name is Vychtorya.
(screen name would have been Kitana, probably, but that's taken...)


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## KitanaVorr

I like your idea reaper 

well, hmm...if this situation gets any more desparate I might volunteer! (lol no you don't all have to be vampire hunters in d20 modern, i was just teasing)


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## reapersaurus

that would be great, KitanaVorr!

I hereby get behind you all the way, in your Storyteller suggestion!

*reaper gets so behind KV that he starts inching her forward, inch by inch... inexorably pushing her out onto the stage with the lights*

As long as it's not set in Texas.


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## Jemal

I'm just thinking - I've never actually played Masquerade, but I've got the book.  Do you really NEED a story teller?  Couldn't it work if it was mainly role-playing and character interaction?  NPCs could be 'played' by basically anyone, as long as they followed the NPCs established nature.

The reason I ask is because I've been a part of 90 Park, a Vampire RPG PBeM game set in New York.  There's no storyteller/GM/etc, and for a few years it was going great, but eventually people moved on, grew disinterested, etc.  But during that time there were many adventures, you just don't wait for someone else to start something, you go do it yourself.  
What's everyone think?  It would have to work on a big level of trust and responsibility, no "I was hiding you couldn't have seen me" or "No, I actually hit you!" stuff.


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## Timothy

I did that thing before, it's actually quite fun. You can roleplay a lot, and it doesn't evolve about gaining xp, but having fun only.

I'vote Yea


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## Festy_Dog

Well an offer has come up for a d20 game with all vampires, I'm inclined to head in that direction because I'm a little confused with what the starter thing for V:tM said and then looking at what was on the pdf character sheet there. Though I am quite impressed with all the different clans.


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

A good political game is going to need a Stroyteller to set up the NPCs and their power bases and such.


Even though I don't really have the time, I'm about ready to try to give it a shot myself.

Stay tuned for details....


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## Timothy

Ashrem Bayle [Home] said:
			
		

> *A good political game is going to need a Stroyteller to set up the NPCs and their power bases and such.
> 
> 
> Even though I don't really have the time, I'm about ready to try to give it a shot myself.
> 
> Stay tuned for details.... *




Did I mention I love you ashrem??

(Rule #1: Always love the DM, this will save lives. If he's not into loving, just like him very much )


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## Shalimar

Well since Vampire's aren't living it wouldn't exactly save our lives, but I still love you Ashrem dear.


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

*blushes*


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

It will probably be some time Monday before I post anything specific.

Feel free to post any info as to what kind of characters you have in mind and what their goals are.

I should tell you that goals will be VERY important. I wouldn't make a character designed specificly for combat as he/she will get bored.

However, that is not to say that there will not be any bloodshed.... there will be.

I'm going to want very detailed histories and specific details about your character's goals and ambitions and how they plan to go about getting where they want to be.

This will be a Camarilla based game. No Sabbat.

Clans Assamite, Tzimisce, Lasombra, Salubri, and Samedi are off limits.

I'll consider Giovanni and Setite characters, but you'll need a really good concept.

The city will most likely be New York.

More details soon.


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## reapersaurus

for my part, my first post has a link to a loooong story that details my character's motivations in DEPTH.

Good luck reading it all - noone but my wife's read it, AFAIK.


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## Jemal

_Good luck reading it all - noone but my wife's read it, AFAIK._
I love a challenge.  You're on.  What do I get if I read it all?

Anyways, I probably won't be in on this game, If I can get that other d20 vampire game going. (Shameless Plug!)


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## reapersaurus

Jemal said:
			
		

> *Good luck reading it all - noone but my wife's read it, AFAIK.
> I love a challenge.  You're on.  What do I get if I read it all?*



my thanks if you also give me feedback.


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## KitanaVorr

Jemal said:
			
		

> * If I can get that other d20 vampire game going. (Shameless Plug!) *



_

that game sounds fun _


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## Festy_Dog

I'm torn between vampire games! 

Is there somewhere where I can learn the latest rules for V:tM? The quickstart manual provided some info on the storyline and background but its obvious that there are more clans and rules and such that I would need to know before playing, there seems to have been updates since the quickstart manuals were made.

But from what I do know I'd be leaning towards a Ventrue character.


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## Shalimar

The quickstart rules are not compatible with the regular rules.  For example they present discipline schemes which offer a choice of: the three basic disciplines, 1 basic and one advanced discipline, and 2 basic disciplines and some extra attribute points.

The disciplines system as presented in the full rules has al the disciplines from the quickstart guide, as well as a few others but they are the domain of the clans that Ashrem has disallowed.  The disciplines are on a 1-5 rating system with each rating adding an ability.  Also the attributes are not on the same system as the quickstart suggests.  each attribute is on a 1-5 rating as well(actually everything but bloodpool, will power, and humanity are on a 5 dot scale).   There are three catagories, Physical, Social, and Mental.  Each attribute starts with a single dot in it.   You get 7 dots to divide up in your primary category, 5 in your secondary, and 3 in your weakest.  There are 3 attributes in each category.

Physical: Strength, Dexterity, Stamina
Social: Charisma, Manipulation, Appearance
Mental: Perception, Intelligence, wits

The largest difference between the quickstart is that there are no apptitudes or advantages as listed in it, the clan weaknesses still apply.


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## Festy_Dog

Kewl thx


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## Shalimar

I posed up the stats to my character to give those without the main rules an example to work from.  Here is the thread: Rogue's Gallery Thread

I would of course suggest sending things not everyone should know about their past to Ash directly.


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## Ashrem Bayle

Sabrina looks great Shalimar. I'll look her over a little closer later, but so far she is fine.

Ok. Here are the things you need to know.

1. I'll only be accepting four players. The first five to post their characters with all info will be the first to get in.

2. Character must be built using the main rule book. *You DO NOT need this book.* I will help those who do not with their characters.

3. All characters have been Embraced within 6 months of the time the chronicle begins. It is present day. Jan 2003. 

4. We will be using New York by Night. However, I may or may not change some things so don't take that book as gospel if you have it. (I am sure you all knew that, but I figured I'd say it anyway.)

NOTE: I have never been to New York city. I would love to go, but I don't see it happening any time soon. This means that the info I give you may not be just like the real world NYC. Sorry.  

5. The game will need to be character driven. I'm not going to railroad you at all. This is the reason you will need to have a good grasp on your character. I'll tell you straight up that I have no preconceived plot or "adventure".

6. Unless you prefer otherwise, I'll role all the dice for you. I'll be using the dice roller on white-wolf.com and I will copy and paste the result here. You can go there and see the dice results so you know they will be fair. You have to check pretty quickly after I post though because they scroll away in no time.

However, on occasion I may not roll the dice there because you shouldn't always see all rolls.

www.thekindred.com is a great source for those new to the game. With this, you don’t need the main book.


*CHARACTER CREATION*

Attributes and Abilities determine what your character is capable off. (Think Ability Scores and skills in D&D) These are ranked on a five “dot” scale.

*Clans and Clan Disciplines*

Brujah-- "rabble" Disciplines: Celerity, Potence, Presence 

Caitiff-- "clanless" Disciplines: any three 

Gangrel-- "outlanders" Disciplines: Animalism, Fortitude, Protean 

Malkavians-- "kooks" Disciplines: Auspex, Dominate, Obfuscate 

Nosferatu-- "sewer rats" Disciplines: Animalism, Obfuscate, Potence 

Toreador-- "degenerates" Disciplines: Auspex, Celerity, Presence 

Tremere-- "warlocks" Disciplines: Auspex, Dominate, Thaumaturgy 

Ventrue-- "blue bloods" Disciplines: Dominate, Fortitude, Presence 


Clan Disciplines: These disciplines come easier to learn for members of a particular clan that others. It takes fewer experience points to gain levels in clan disciplines than non clan disciplines.

Nature & Demeanor

These are one word descriptions of your character. Nature is a description of how your character really is deep down. Demeanor is what he/she shows to the world. (His/her “front” so to speak.)

Examples of either include:

Archtect: You are unhappy unless you are creating someting of lasting value.
Bon Vivant: Life is meaningless, so enjoy it as long as it lasts.
Bravo: You are something of a bully; you like to be feared.
Caregiver: Many need your love and protection, and you need them to need you.
Child: You never really grew up, and you want someone to take care of you.
Conformist: A follower at heart, you find it easy to adapt, adjust and comply.
Conniver: There's always an easier way--which usually involves someone else doing your work.
Curmudgeon: You are a real sourpuss and cynic of the Nth degree.
Deviant: You're just not like everyone else.
Director: You hate chaos and are forever taking charge to set things right.
Fantic: You have a cause and it gives your life meaning.
Gallant: You are as flamboyant as you are amoral.
Jester: Always the clown, you can't take life, or death, seriously.
Judge: You seek justice and reconciliation.
Loner: You are forever alone, even in a crowd.
Martyr: You need to be needed, and enjoy being morally superior.
Rebel: No need for a cause; you rebel out of habit and passion.
Survivor: You struggle to survive, no matter what the odds.
Traditionalist: You prefer hte orthodox and conservative ways.
Visionary: Wisdom is your quest, insight your key.


*Attributes*

You get one free dot in all Attributes. To determine your attribute scores, you must determine whether or not a category is Primary, Secondary, or Tertiary. Your Primary has 7 dots to spread around, your Secondary has 5, and your Tertiary has 3.

_Example: Markus the is a very persuasive character, he is also very intelligent, but not very physical. He spreads 7 dots among Charisma, Manipulation, and Appearance. Next he spread 5 dots among the Mental category, then 3 among the Physical._

Physical
Strength
Dexterity
Stamina

Social
Charisma
Manipulation
Appearance

Mental
Perception
Intelligence
Wits

*Abilities*

You DO NOT get one free dot in all Attributes. To determine your Ability scores, like Attributes, you must determine whether or not a category is Primary, Secondary, or Tertiary. Your Primary has 13 dots to spread around, your Secondary has 9, and your Tertiary has 5. No ability can begin with more than 3 dots.

Talents
Alertness
Athletics
Brawl
Dodge
Empathy
Expression
Intimidation
Leadership
Streetwise
Subterfuge

Skills
Animal Ken
Crafts
Drive
Etiquette
Firearms
Melee
Performance
Security
Stealth
Survival

Knowledges
Academics
Computer
Finance
Investigation
Law
Linguistics
Medicine
Occult
Politics
Science

*Virtues*

You begin with one dot in all three Virtues. You then have 7 dots to spread among them however you wish.

Conscience – This determines how your actions effect your Humanity.
Self-Control – This is what you use to resist a Frenzy.
Courage – This is used to determine how your character reacts to danger. Specifically when dealing with fire and sunlight.

*Advantages*

Disciplines

These are a vampire’s “powers”. You get three points to spread out amongst your disciplines.

Animalism – domination, affinity, and control of animals.
Auspex – enhanced senses, telepathy, and clairsentience
Celerity – supernatural speed
Dementation – the ability to spread insanity (Malkavians only)
Domination – The ability to command and possess humans and vampires.
Fortitude – supernatural endurance
Obfuscate – the ability to disappear and disguise yourself.
Potence – supernatural strength
Presence – the ability to sway crowds and awe people. Supernatural attraction or repulsion.
Protean – shapeshifting
Thaumaturgy – blood magic (Tremere only without a mentor.)

Humanity

This score is determined by adding your Conscience and Self-Control scores.

Willpower

This permanent score begins as the same as your Courage score. Willpower works pretty much like a Will save in D&D. Willpower functions in two ways.

Permanent Willpower: This score determines how much Willpower Points you can have. Very few things can cost you to loose Permanent Willpower and it can only be gained with Freebie Points at character creation and Experience. Unlike other traits, Willpower goes on a scale of 1-10.

Temporary Willpower: These points may never exceed your Permanent Willpower. Spending a willpower point gains you one automatic success on an action. It is also used to use some disciplines. You gain willpower points back when you do something furthers your goals or is associated with your Nature. You also gain 1 willpower when you wake each night.

Blood Pool

This depends on your Generation. If you are 13th Generation, you have 10 blood points. 12th Generation vampires have 11, 11th has 12 and so on. The lower the character’s Generation, the more points in his/her blood pool.

You may use blood in several ways:

1.	You spend 1 blood point to wake each night.
2.	Many disciplines require you to spend blood to use.
3.	You may spend 1 blood point to appear human for one scene.
4.	You may spend blood points to increase any of your physical attributes on a one for one basis for a scene. _(Ex. 1 blood point = 1 dot of Strength)_

Generation

All characters default to 13th Generation. This means that you are 13 steps removed from Caine himself, the progenitor vampire. The lower the Generation, the more potent the blood. This has a few effects on gameplay:

1. You cannot develop ability, attribute, or discipline score higher than level 5 unless you are 8th Generation. At 8th generation, you can increase these scores to level 6.

2. You can spend more blood in a round. 13th – 10th Generation vampires may spend one blood point per round. 9th Generation may spend 2 blood points and so on.

3. You can use blood to increase you ability scores higher. 13th-9th Generation vampires may spend blood to increase their Physical Attributes up to level 6. 8th Generation can increase theirs to level 7 and so on.

Backgrounds

You have five points to spend on backgrounds. Spend them how you wish. No character may have more than 5 points in a single background. This is where the real details of the character are. I want to know who your allies and contacts are. How you got your money or herd. etc.

Allies: Human confederates, usually family or friends.
Contacts: The number of information sources the character possesses.
Generation: How far removed from Caine the character is.
Herd: The vessels to which the character has free and safe access.
Influence: The character's political power within mortal society.
Mentor: The Cainite patron who advises and supports the character.
Resources: Wealth, belongings, and monthly income.
Retainers: Followers, guards, and servants.
Status: The character's standing in undead society.


*Freebie Points*

These are points that can be used to buy additional dots in certain aspects of your character. You have 14 of these “freebie” points to spend. See below to determine how many freebie points it costs to raise the level of something.

Disciplines (Clan): 5 points per dot*
Disciplines (Non Clan): 7 points per dot*
Attributes: 5 points per dot
Abilities: 2 points per dot
Background: 1 point per dot
Virtues: 2 points per dot
Willpower: 2 points per dot
Humanity: 1 point per dot

*This is a House Rule for those of you with the books.

*Merits & Flaws*

These are things outside the rules that can be bought with additional Freebie points or can grant you additional freebie points.

These can be almost anything. Starting at 14th Generation is worth 2 points while the ability to eat food will cost you 3 points.

*BACKGROUND*

You must answer all of the questions at the below web address with at least a few sentences. 

http://www.sanguinus.com/pl0001.shtml

*OTHER*

Weapons

 Use the Main rule book, or let me know what you want and I’ll give you stats. A few things you should know are that guns are almost useless against vampires. However, swords and such a very suspicious and might even be considered a breach of the Masquerade by a Prince looking to nail you.

Combat

Combat can be very deadly in this game. While you could survive falling off a building or being riddles with bullets, there are things that can kill you….. fast.

Non-Lethal Damage

This is damage from blunt objects, piercing weapons, and, for vampires, most bullets. Vampires take only half damage from these things. This can be “soaked” with your Stamina.

Lethal Damage

This is cutting, ripping, and slashing trauma. Vampires take normal damage. Note: A shotgun at close range is lethal damage. A vampire may collapse into torpor from lethal damage, but cannot die short of decapitation or the removal of the heart. This can be “soaked” with your Stamina.

Aggravated Damage

This is damage caused from sunlight, fire, and the fangs and claws of supernatural creatures. Pretty much, if it would kill a human, it will kill you. For this reason, combat with other vampires can end very fast. This CAN NOT be “soaked” with your Stamina. Only the discipline Fortitude allows you to soak Aggravated Damage.

________________________________

I am sure I am forgetting a lot. 

Shalimar, I am appointed you as assistant Storyteller and your place is reserved as a player even though I haven’t gotten all your info yet. You can thank me later.  I may need help with all the many rules I am rusty with. 

Be patient with me guys, it has been a while since I ran Vampire.

Feel free to ask me anything.

I tend to post from 9:00Am to 5:00 PM throughout the week. My internet at home has been off and on for the last two weeks, so I want be posting much from home. Weekends will usually be downtime. Feel free to post if you want to, but don't expect much in the way of Storyteller intervention.


----------



## Jemal

You know, I kinda like the way you're setting this up.  I've never actually played Masquerade before, but I got the book, so I'll make up a character.  (I always wanted to try it out)


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Glad to hear it!

So far I have Shalimar and Jemal as definate takers. 

Thats three slots left open.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Give me time to look this over first to see if I can understand how this is played.  I don't have the book and I've never played this before  so hehe you'll have to bear with me.


----------



## reapersaurus

My wife and I would both like to play, Ash.

I gotta say, it is really cool seeing Vampire rules and such gracing a post on the ENBoards after so long.  

Both our first-person narrative backgrounds are linked from my first post, and I will work on transposing our character sheets for your game.

As an open offer, I can help with looking things up in the book(s), etc.


----------



## Jemal

Actually if anyone wants it, I've got the entire Core Book for V:TM Typed up in a Wordpad File.  I can e-mail it to you or something if you're interested.

It's harder to follow than a pdf or the actual book, but it's better than nothing.  (Long read, though)

Also, Shalimar - I e-mailed you soemthing, did you get it?


----------



## Shalimar

Jemal, I just got the email.  Its a good question, look for my response back within a few minutes.  Theres a few things, but if your fine with them yes.


----------



## Jemal

K, thanx Shal.  I had 1 problem so I e-mailed you a little update (Hopefully it doesn't contradict anything you said in yours).


----------



## Shalimar

My email is sent.  9th gen isn't a problem.  Nathan's Generation could be adjusted to 8th if you would like to be 9th, read my email to learn who Nathan is.  I sent a second email with more info, so check your email.


----------



## Jemal

Anyone know where I can find a list of Merits and Flaws?  My copy of the book doesn't have any.


----------



## Timothy

Well, Ashrem, I'll post my background, and try to follow the rules you posted, as well as looking at the links.
I'm sure you can then help me out with the rest.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Like I said, it isn't a problem not having the books. I am more than happy to help.

Another thing I meant to add: Try to find a picture of your character online. I want real photos, not anime or any kind of cartoons. The best thing to do would be find an actor/actress you like and post a picture. This works good to have a firm mental picture of the cast.

Something to remember is that all of your character are very recently embraced. I'd like to keep the Generation scores somewhere around the 10-13 range. I can't think of a way to justify so many childer embraced by a bunch of elders in such a short period of time. I'd like to keep with canon continuity. Generations of 8-6 are the active elders of the Camarilla. They don't embrace much anymore.


----------



## Alhandra

never mind...  nothing to see in this den of inequity...


----------



## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I'd like to keep with canon continuity. *



Doesn't that suck the fun out of it?  

Seriously, though.... the more I read about the heirarchy of the clans, and the politics and such, the harder it became for me to imagine playing a character in that world - everything you do would be watched and known, and there's no way you would ever grow to any power, since before you became anything, you would be forced into allegiance with the powers-that-be.

Canon is highly overrated, IMO. (but i don't know too much about it - those are just my layman's impressions)

what do you think?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Got your info Shali. Sabrina looks great. Loved your backstory and your reason for being embraced.

Just so I have it straight:

Nathan is a prestigious Ventrue and head of a mortal family.
Your parent where ghouls. _Did you know this before the embrace?_
Jemal's character was embraced by Nathan and is now your caretaker.
Nathan thinks of you as a bastard childe.
Elizabeth is still alive(undead) and you want to destroy her.

This right?

What is the current situation with your parents? 

All this seems fine. The only thing I'm going to add is that Nathan has you blood bound.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Doesn't that suck the fun out of it?
> 
> Seriously, though.... the more I read about the heirarchy of the clans, and the politics and such, the harder it became for me to imagine playing a character in that world - everything you do would be watched and known, and there's no way you would ever grow to any power, since before you became anything, you would be forced into allegiance with the powers-that-be.
> 
> Canon is highly overrated, IMO. (but i don't know too much about it - those are just my layman's impressions)
> 
> what do you think? *




In most cases you are right. This was a problem I had with the game as well. However, this is what makes New York by Night the best idea White Wolf ever had.

For those of you who do not know:

Up until 1999, New York City was controlled by the Sabbat. There was very little Camarilla presence.

In '99 the Camarilla got organized and took the city back. Most of the Sabbat where destroyed, the rest fled. A few nomadic packs have been making incursions into the city, but they are rare.

Here is the good part. There is a power vacuum. Very few elders where willing to leave their esabolished domains and move to New York. There is a total of about 30 vampires in a city with a population of many millions.

The Prince is a Nosferatu who does not want the job. Most all of the Vampire are young and looking to make a name for themselves.

This game will not focus a lot on "The Camarilla" or "The Clans". It will focus on "The Vampires", if that makes sense. 

In the immortal words of Tom Petty, "The future is wide open."

I'll try to post more info on the city soon.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *My wife and I would both like to play, Ash.
> 
> I gotta say, it is really cool seeing Vampire rules and such gracing a post on the ENBoards after so long.
> 
> Both our first-person narrative backgrounds are linked from my first post, and I will work on transposing our character sheets for your game.
> 
> As an open offer, I can help with looking things up in the book(s), etc. *




I am going to take a look now. 

Also, yea, I would appreciate any help when it comes to the rules. I really dug into the rule book last night and found several errors in the information I posted yesterday.

It has been a while....


So far we have:

Reaper, Reaper's wife, Shalimar, Jemal, Kitana, & Timothy

Festy -> Are you still interested?

That is it assuming I get all of your info within the next week.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Reaper, I just got through both of your right ups. They look really good.

Maybe I missed it, but neither character has anything about them after the embrace. What I read was really great though.

I'll still need both of the characters written up answering the questions I linked to above.

And character sheets of course. 


Timothy and Kitana, is there anything in particular you need help with?


Jemal, where do you stand? 

Shalimar -> Normally I would have said "no" to a child vampire character, but your concept was so good I'm looking forward to seeing where you take her. Good job.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Reaper, Reaper's Wife, and Shalimar have info turned in to me.

That means there is only 3 slots left. (I decided to allow six players.)

Timothy, Jemal, Festy, and Kitana I have not recieved anything from. (Though I get the impression that Jemal is working on it.)

Don't let the rules stand in your way. If you can get those questions answered from the link in my earlier post, that is all I really need now. We can worry about rules and character sheets later.

We have 4 interested players and 3 slots. The race is on.


----------



## Shalimar

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Got your info Shali. Sabrina looks great. Loved your backstory and your reason for being embraced.
> 
> Just so I have it straight:
> 
> Nathan is a prestigious Ventrue and head of a mortal family.
> Your parent where ghouls.*




Yes and yes.  Nathan is my mentor(2 dots).




> did you know this before the embrace?



No, she was totally ignorant of the situation, a child and the maquerade don't really mix, so why risk it from a truely practical standpoint?




> Jemal's character was embraced by Nathan and is now your caretaker.
> Nathan thinks of you as a bastard childe.



Nathan is responsible due to the tradition of the accounting, its just that her brother is much more friendly and protective, he doesn't replace, only augment.




> Elizabeth is still alive(undead) and you want to destroy her.




Yes, not that she truly understands what it would mean to destroy her.  But she is angry and wishes to hurt her.



> What is the current situation with your parents?




Her parents are still around as much as they ever were, which is to say not much.  They really are not equiped to deal with the temper tantrums of an 8 year-old with the ability to punch holes in walls, their role and Nathans has reversed.



> All this seems fine. The only thing I'm going to add is that Nathan has you blood bound.




Naturaly, though I would point out that she already is effectively blood bound to him out of love.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Is it safe to assume that Sabrina and Nathan have a sort of Claudia and Lestat relationship? (Though not going so far as to actually try to kill each other.)


----------



## Jemal

> _
> Is it safe to assume that Sabrina and Nathan have a sort of Claudia and Lestat relationship? (Though not going so far as to actually try to kill each other.)_




I'ld say that's probably safe to assume.. just add my character in as a kind of 'Louis'.  
OH, btw, yes I am working on my character, It's the virst Masquerade one I've ever made so It's taking a bit longer than I though (Plus trying to make my bio fit Shals so there's no continuity errors)


----------



## Shalimar

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Is it safe to assume that Sabrina and Nathan have a sort of Claudia and Lestat relationship? (Though not going so far as to actually try to kill each other.) *




Yes, but unlike Claudia she doesn't hate her lestat.  She doesn't even know he had anything to do with her embrace.


----------



## Timothy

I'm very busy right now, I'll try to make a start tomorrow, ok?


----------



## KitanaVorr

well I don't have the book, don't know anything about V:tM history, and have never played before.

LOL still want me?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *well I don't have the book, don't know anything about V:tM history, and have never played before.
> 
> LOL still want me?  *




Of course! Actually, the fact that you know nothing about all of this just makes it more appealing.


----------



## Shalimar

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *well I don't have the book, don't know anything about V:tM history, and have never played before.
> 
> LOL still want me?  *




Depending on how recently you were embraced by your sire you could do the learning during the course of the game.  Having the book to learn the history of Vampire The Masquerade is highly over-rated, it presents too much information, information that isn't widely known.  

For example my character is newly embraced, and knows of only two clans, Ventrue and Brujah.  All of the knowledge she will have will come from what others tell her over the next few weeks.  It is not a stretch for the newly embraced to know nothing.  One of the six Laws of the Camarilla is the Masquerade.  Breaking the secrecy is punishable by death, so I think its refreshing to see people not knowing.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

Exactly.

You could have been embraced yesterday. Heck, you can begin play as a mortal for all I care.


----------



## KitanaVorr

okay then I'm going to need major help making a character because I read over what you said and I have no clue what its all about.   

What is this generation thing?  What are the "dots" that you're talking about?   

EDIT:  Hmm...beginning as a human is interesting, then we can play out the steps toward my embrace


----------



## Shalimar

Ok, Cain was the first vampire.  In his body God's curse is most potent.  Each Vampire that he embraced would be of the 2nd Generation( Cain being the first generation).  He embraced 3 Vampires (2nd generation).  They Begat 13 known as the Antediluvians who are the founders of the clans(okay not exatly 13 but I am trying to simplifiy, they are 3rd Gen)

Each of the 3rd Gen was cursed in some way and they pass their curse down to all of their children, which is the basis for the clan weaknesses.

All of that happened a long time ago,(during biblical times, the 3rd Gen were around before the great flood iirc), the blood of the vampires who are around now is a lot thinner and less potent as the average starting vampire is of the 13th Generation.  You may purchase a lower generation(and more power) at character creation by putting points into the Generation background trait.  Each point you put in lowers your generation by 1.

You only get 5 points to put into your background and if you dont put anything into resources, thats exactly what you have, nothing at all, no money, no where to live, nothing.

Dots refers to your ratings, as in drive 2 is 2 dots of drive, its a coloquialism based on the fact that the character sheets are just blank dots to be filled in.

I wouldn't mind helping anyone make a character as I have finished Sabrina.


----------



## Vychtorya

Hey there! This is Reaper's wife 

Kitana was taken  (bummer)

So Vych it is! This is my first post, and I have been working on my character. It'll be in Rogue's gallery soon.

I have been waiting SOOO long to resume this character! I'm very excited about getting to play again. Vych is of Swiss backgound.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Thanks Shalimar 

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of starting out as a human and getting "initated" into the fold whether by choice or force.  It would play out as an interesting story arc in itself just her learning about the whole masquerade thing (lol like I would be  )

Of course, I wouldn't know what to do to make a human starting character! But at least my vampire wouldn't get so powerful that I would be confused with all the stuff she could do.


----------



## Timothy

Okay, I'll start reading up on the chars so far, and all the links, and the I'm going to generat it.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Kitana ->

Humans are easy. I'll walk you through it.

*Step 1*

Name
Nature
Demeanor
Residence
Age
Sex
Concept

Most of these are self explanatory. Nature and Demeanor functions just like it does for vampires.

Nature & Demeanor

These are one word descriptions of your character. Nature is a description of how your character really is deep down. Demeanor is what he/she shows to the world. (His/her “front” so to speak.)

Examples of either include:

Archtect: You are unhappy unless you are creating someting of lasting value.
Bon Vivant: Life is meaningless, so enjoy it as long as it lasts.
Bravo: You are something of a bully; you like to be feared.
Caregiver: Many need your love and protection, and you need them to need you.
Child: You never really grew up, and you want someone to take care of you.
Conformist: A follower at heart, you find it easy to adapt, adjust and comply.
Conniver: There's always an easier way--which usually involves someone else doing your work.
Curmudgeon: You are a real sourpuss and cynic of the Nth degree.
Deviant: You're just not like everyone else.
Director: You hate chaos and are forever taking charge to set things right.
Fantic: You have a cause and it gives your life meaning.
Gallant: You are as flamboyant as you are amoral.
Jester: Always the clown, you can't take life, or death, seriously.
Judge: You seek justice and reconciliation.
Loner: You are forever alone, even in a crowd.
Martyr: You need to be needed, and enjoy being morally superior.
Rebel: No need for a cause; you rebel out of habit and passion.
Survivor: You struggle to survive, no matter what the odds.
Traditionalist: You prefer hte orthodox and conservative ways.
Visionary: Wisdom is your quest, insight your key.

_Example: Your character could show the world that he/she is a Rebel, but at heart, he/she is really a sort of Loner (Demeanor: Rebel, Nature: Loner) or he/she could really be a Rebel at heart and have Rebel as both his/her Nature and Demeanor be Rebel._

Concept

What does your character do? This is usually no more than a one or two word description.


*Step 2*

*Attributes*

You get one free dot in all Attributes. To determine your attribute scores, you must determine whether or not a category is Primary, Secondary, or Tertiary. Your Primary has 6 dots to spread around, your Secondary has 4, and your Tertiary has 3.

Example: Markus is a very persuasive character, he is also very intelligent, but not very physical. He spreads 6 dots among Charisma, Manipulation, and Appearance. Markus' player decides that one of the reasons that Markus is such a social butterfly is because he is very attractive. So, with his six dots, he puts 3 in Appearence, then 2 in Charisma and the final point (dot) in Manipulation. So with his free points, he ends up with a Charisma with 3 dots, a Manipulation of 2 dots, and 4 dots in Appearence. Next he spreads 4 dots among the Mental category, then 3 among the Physical.

Physical
Strength
Dexterity
Stamina

Social
Charisma
Manipulation
Appearance

Mental
Perception
Intelligence
Wits


*Abilities*

You DO NOT get one free dot in all Abilities. To determine your Ability scores, like Attributes, you must determine whether or not a category is Primary, Secondary, or Tertiary. Your Primary has 11 dots to spread around, your Secondary has 7, and your Tertiary has 4. This process is exactly like how Attributes are handled. No ability can begin with more than 3 dots.

Talents
Alertness
Athletics
Brawl
Dodge
Empathy
Expression
Intimidation
Leadership
Streetwise
Subterfuge

Skills
Animal Ken
Crafts
Drive
Etiquette
Firearms
Melee
Performance
Security
Stealth
Survival

Knowledges
Academics
Computer
Finance
Investigation
Law
Linguistics
Medicine
Occult
Politics
Science


*Step 3*

*Virtues*

You begin with one dot in all three Virtues. You then have 7 dots to spread among them however you wish.

Conscience – This determines how your actions effect your Humanity.
Self-Control – This is what you use to resist a panic or frenzy if you are a vampire.
Courage – This is used to determine how your character reacts to danger. Specifically when dealing with fire and sunlight if you are a vampire.

*Humanity*

This score is determined by adding your Conscience and Self-Control scores. This is a 1-10 scale rating that determines how human you are. It determine how well you stick to your morals. this isn't too critical to a human, but is very important to vampires. The lower your score, the more cold and emotionless you are. Characters with low scores are more likely fly into a rage and loose control. Vampires with low scores look less human than vampires with higher Humanity ratings.

*Willpower*

This permanent score begins as the same as your Courage score. Willpower works pretty much like a Will save in D&D. Willpower functions in two ways.

Permanent Willpower: This score determines how much Willpower Points you can have. Very few things can cost you to loose Permanent Willpower and it can only be gained with Freebie Points at character creation and Experience. Unlike other traits, Willpower goes on a scale of 1-10.

Temporary Willpower: These points may never exceed your Permanent Willpower. Spending a willpower point gains you one automatic success on an action. It is also used to use some disciplines. You gain willpower points back when you do something furthers your goals or is associated with your Nature. You also gain 1 willpower when you wake each night or day if you are mortal.

Below you can find the links to character sheets for Vampire. Take a look at the sheet and see how everything works out. That may make some of this a bit easier to understand.


The Vampire Character Sheet 

The Mortal Character Sheet


----------



## KitanaVorr

Okay this is what I've got so far.  Some questions about the character sheet.  What are the background for dots for?  And the merits/flaws stuff?

NAME: Caitlyn Tran
RESIDENCE: Manhattan
AGE: 20
GENDER: Female
CONCEPT:  Caitlyn or “Caitie” to her friends is a young singer/songwriter from Texas who has been trying to make it big in New York City ever since she left home on her 18th birthday.  Her voice is a soulful sweetness that graces a few of the jazz and blues clubs around the city on a regular basis.  The pay is steady and not too bad, it’s enough to afford a decent apartment in Manhattan with her roommate and best friend, Lydia Morales, who is an actress/model.

DEMEANOR: Architect
NATURE: Loner

ATTRIBUTES: Social/Mental/Physical
Appearance 4
Charisma 4 (Graceful)
Manipulation 3
Perception 2
Intelligence 2
Wits 3
Strength 2
Dexterity 3
Stamina 2

ABILITIES: Skills/Talents/Academics
Drive	1
Etiquette 2
Firearms 2
Melee 1
Performance 5 (Singing)
Alertness 2
Empathy 2
Expression 2
Intimidation 2
Leadership 2
Streetwise 2
Computer 1
Linguistics 2 (Vietnamese, Spanish)

VIRTUES
Conscience 3
Self-Control 3
Courage 4

HUMANITY 6
WILLPOWER 4


----------



## Shalimar

If your up for a few explinations about your capabilities from the sheet you put up Kit I'll give some of the descriptors from the rules.

Backgrounds are things like Allies(friends and family), Contacts(people you know), fame (1 dot= known to a local subset of people like club goers), influence(1 point= factor in city politics), Resources (your description equals resources 2 with a monthly allowance of 1200 to spend)

when you have an attribute or ability at rating 4 you may choose a specialization, I will list them next to the things you have 4 dots in

1 dot: Poor
2 dots: Average
3 dots: Good
4 dots: Exceptional
5 dots: Outstanding

Appearance 4 : you are appealing enough to be a model and people often go out of their way to tell you so. (no specializations)

Charisma 4: you have significant personal magnetism. ( Smooth Talker, Genteel, Urbane, Witty, Eloquent  Speaker, Graceful)

Manipulation 1: A person of few(often ineffectual) words.
Perception 2: You are oblivious to the very subtle but aware of the bigger picture
Intelligence 2: Smart enough to realize your normal IQ 100
Wits 3: You are seldom surprised or left speechless
Strength 1: you can lift 40 lbs
Dexterity 3: you posses some degree of Athletic Potential
Stamina 2: you are moderately healthy and can take a punch or two.

Drive 1:you know how to work an automatic transmission
Etiquette 3: you know your way around even obscure silverware
Firearms 2: you while away the ocassional hour at a gunclub

Performance 5: You are a virtuoso without peer (4 dots is a national sensation, 3 is in demand at local clubs) (I don't know how ash handles freebies for mortals, but if you don't have any 3 is the max for starting abilities) (Dancing, Singing, Rock and Roll, Acting, Guitar solos, Drunken Karaoke) 

Alertness 1:Your no mindless drone
Empathy 2: you can sometimes literally feel someone else's suffering
Expression 2: You could lead a college debate team
Leadership 2: Student Body President
Computer 1: Point and click
Investigation 1: you've read your share of Agatha Christie
Linguistics 1: 1 extra language

VIRTUES
Conscience 4: righteous (3 is Ethical, 2 is normal)
Self-Control 3: Temperate (2 is normal)
Courage 3: Bold (2 is normal)

HUMANITY 7: Normal
WILLPOWER 3: Unassertive


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Backgrounds are things like Allies(friends and family), Contacts(people you know), fame (1 dot= known to a local subset of people like club goers), influence(1 point= factor in city politics), Resources (your description equals resources 2 with a monthly allowance of 1200 to spend)
> *




Where do I get the dots that go in there?


----------



## Shalimar

Kitana  you have 5 background points and 21 freebie points.

It costs:
5 freebie points for 1 attribute dot
2 freebie points for 1 ability dot (only way to get one above 3)
1 freebie point for 1 background dot

with your background history I would suggest buying 1 or 2 attribute points to put into manipulation bringing you to at least average, maybe even more.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Kitana  you have 5 background points and 21 freebie points.
> 
> It costs:
> 5 freebie points for 1 attribute dot
> 2 freebie points for 1 ability dot (only way to get one above 3)
> 1 freebie point for 1 background dot
> 
> with your background history I would suggest buying 1 or 2 attribute points to put into manipulation bringing you to at least average, maybe even more. *




that does sound like a good idea, thanks!


----------



## KitanaVorr

Okay Updated....I think I calculated everything correctly 

NAME: Caitlyn Tran
RESIDENCE: Manhattan
AGE: 20
GENDER: Female
CONCEPT:  Caitlyn or “Caitie” to her friends is a young singer/songwriter from Texas who has been trying to make it big in New York City ever since she left home on her 18th birthday.  Her voice is a soulful sweetness that graces a few of the jazz and blues clubs around the city on a regular basis.  The pay is steady and not too bad, it’s enough to afford a decent apartment in Manhattan with her roommate and best friend, Lydia Morales, who is an actress/model.

DEMEANOR: Architect
NATURE: Loner

ATTRIBUTES: Social/Mental/Physical
Appearance 4
Charisma 4 (Graceful)
Manipulation 3
Perception 2
Intelligence 2
Wits 3
Strength 2
Dexterity 3
Stamina 2

ABILITIES: Skills/Talents/Academics
Drive 1
Etiquette 2
Firearms 2
Melee 1
Performance 5 (Singing)
Alertness 2
Empathy 2
Expression 2
Intimidation 2
Leadership 2
Streetwise 2
Computer 1
Linguistics 1 (Vietnamese)

VIRTUES
Conscience 3
Self-Control 5
Courage 5

HUMANITY 8
WILLPOWER 5

BACKGROUND
Allies 1
Contacts 1
Fame 1
Influence 0 
Resources 2

EDIT: okay humanity raised  and shifted around some freebie points to virtues.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Looking good!

I might suggest raising your humanity just a tad, but otherwise she is fine. This would help those in the crowd empathise with her music better.

Now, we have to figure out how to get her into the game. The best way I can think of, is having one of the other characters be looking to Embrace her.

Sabrina could be looking for a "sister" or a more adequate "mother".

Jemal's character may be looking for someone more "grown up" to share his eternity with.

Not sure about the other character since I still havn't gotten much from them.

Of course, any of you are first going to need permission to embrace.


----------



## reapersaurus

Just a quick look at the point-distribution looks like they aren't grouped?
(7/5/3, etc)

I'm wondering what Clan you're planning on having her, KitanaV?
I'll be sending that file I mentioned to you shortly. 

Shalimar - when we (my wife and I) looked at your character, we used your formatting layout as a template, as you probably noticed (hope that's OK - standardization is good! ).

We noticed that your child-vampy has 2 of the same merits Vychtorya does : Enchanting Voice and Blush of Health.

With Caitlyn Tran being a human singer, pre-Embrace, so far our party looks like normal human females! LOL

Well, it won't when I post Nikolai - he's rather dark and cold right now in his 'life' (or currently unlife), having sacrificed his humanity itself for the power for his revenge.  

It was surprising to me to see a Brujah that wasn't a physical-based character. In my inexperience, I was assuming all Brujah to be somewhat thuggish, or at least not as manipulative as your little Sabrina.
Of course, at that age, manipulation comes naturally, eh? 

Maybe my ultra-manipulative Nikolai (I originally had him as kind of inspired by Jafar from Alladin - all manipulation, all the time ; grin to your face while plotting to stab you in the back type) could take some tips from her. 

Oh, lastly - 
I ratcheted back Nikolai to be 10th gen, as Ashrem said.
Are you going to be doing that for Sabrina?

edit: 
Ashrem - Nikolai would never think of Embracing KV's character - she happens to be a singer, which is what Nikolai's murdered love was.
He has the Flaw of Prey Exclusion (singers, or more generally, entertainers). He'd try not to bring harm to them, as that would be like assaulting his memory of his betrothed.  (if you hadn't noticed, I tried to go high-tragedy with Nikolai)


----------



## reapersaurus

I just read the adventure you're in on that other board, Shalimar : 

You did MUCH better that some of the others I read - it didn't seem like they understood in-character gaming online OR anything much about Vampires.
Good in-character roleplaying there - it seemed like you knew more about the rules than the Storyteller, as well. 

[edit] I only read the OOC threads, but those were the impressions I got.
And this post of yours that said this:







> "But the things she says or thinks in the In-Character forum are from her perspective, not mine. I seperate the two as best I can. It is very important in a roleplaying game to think and act from the character's point of view, and not your own, as you are almost certainly privy to knowledge that your character is not"



was great!

I will try for my part to include SOME terms and words that Vampires use, to make the game more flavorful (bloodbag, happy-meal, whack-job, etc).
I'll try to explain some of the terms and in-game stuff in the OOC thread to help anyone who hasn't read the book(s) or if I don't use them properly or clearly... [/edit] 

And don't you only get 15 freebie points?

Ashrem - will you be put out if we happen to roleplay our characters antagonistically towards other players?
I'm not planning to, but that other Storyteller (ST) seemed to not be able to handle it when Shalimar roleplayed her character as not liking another character.

A rules question: how do you have the Tremere's Rituals work?
How many will Nikolai start with?

As for his history after the Embrace, he has spent every waking moment in the learning, acquisition, and practice of POWER.
He will have either 4 or 5 dots in Thamaturgy, as he is hungry for power with which to take down his hated monster.
Of course, in the acquisition of this power, he will be becoming somewhat of a Monster himself, aye that's the tragedy of the whole thing....


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

> Just a quick look at the point-distribution looks like they aren't grouped?
> (7/5/3, etc)




Mortals have a 6/4/3 grouping and I believe she used some Freebie Points there.

However, I'd like to see a record of how freebies are used with all of the characters.



> It was surprising to me to see a Brujah that wasn't a physical-based character. In my inexperience, I was assuming all Brujah to be somewhat thuggish, or at least not as manipulative as your little Sabrina.




Breaking away from clan stereotypes is something I strongly incourage. Given the circumstances of her embrace, she could easily fit as a member of any clan.



> Maybe my ultra-manipulative Nikolai....




What clan is Nikolai from? I can't remember if you said Tremere or Malkavian.




> I ratcheted back Nikolai to be 10th gen, as Ashrem said.
> Are you going to be doing that for Sabrina?




Yes. That is something you should look at Shali. I'd like to see her at about 10th or 9th max.



> Ashrem - Nikolai would never think of Embracing KV's...




Thats cool. There is always Timothy and Jemal's characters. If nothing else, I'm sure I could come up with an NPC. I like mixing her in with the PCs a lot better though.



A few other comments:

Nice pic Shalimar. She looks all nice and innocent. Who is that?

Vychtorya looks great.

Remember all, I still need these questions answered ASAP. The format thay are in works great. 

You can either post them here, or e-mail me. I'd prefer you post it here, but if you have something hidden in your past you don't want the others to see, just email it with the subject as "ENWorld".

Wwhen I all of the characters in, I am going to put them in the Vampire Character Generator that I got for Christmas last year and haven't hardly used.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> Ashrem - will you be put out if we happen to roleplay our characters antagonistically towards other players?
> I'm not planning to, but that other Storyteller (ST) seemed to not be able to handle it when Shalimar roleplayed her character as not liking another character.*





I don't have a problem with it. Like I said, I'm not going to railroad you guys. I would suggest trying to get along for your own benifits and for that of the game. 

Example: The Wheel of Time game that Shali and myself are in. At least three of the characters have been trying to get away from the others since day one. However, they always seem to find a reason to stick around. It plays well with our character concepts, but continues to hold the story together.

*



			A rules question: how do you have the Tremere's Rituals work?
How many will Nikolai start with?
		
Click to expand...


*
Depends on your Thaumaturgy score.



> *As for his history after the Embrace, he has spent every waking moment in the learning, acquisition, and practice of POWER.
> He will have either 4 or 5 dots in Thamaturgy, as he is hungry for power with which to take down his hated monster.
> Of course, in the acquisition of this power, he will be becoming somewhat of a Monster himself, aye that's the tragedy of the whole thing....  *




Cool. Fits the Tremere concept well. I'm curious to see how he deals with the other members of his clan.


----------



## reapersaurus

Nikolai is a Tremere.
And I'm sure my wife will see your comment about Vychtorya soon.

So is the max gen 10th, or 9th?
My wife originally had her Gen as 8th, but there's IMO nothing really in Vych's background that requires a high gen.
Once you get to 10th and later, there's very little difference between gens (just a slightly bigger blood pool).

Nikolai wants POWER. This is a critical part of his character - he must obtain enough power to wreak his revenge on this legendary, untouchable vampire (I'm  going to finish the backstory on my website soon - I'm to the spot where the old Malkavian that the human Nikolai meets will give him a bit of info about The Monster.)
So low gen fits right in with Nik's character.

There's nothing secret about either of our characters - we'll be posting everything on the boards.
And I've looked at that question sheet a few times already - I went over it with Vych (I'll stop calling her "my wife"), and it seemed like her background answered most of the questions on that page.

And BTW: Shalimar - what is your character's background?
I'm interested in reading a childe-vampire's story.

(anyone else ever think of that 80's pop band when reading the name "Shalimar"?)


----------



## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Cool. Fits the Tremere concept well. I'm curious to see how he deals with the other members of his clan. *



I might have a LOT of reading to do then.  
I have 3 Thaumaturgy books, and have read them some, but the whole "Tremere chancery" and clan-involvement thing kind of lost me.

Ashram - how much influence from our respective clans will we all be encouraged to include on our characters?
How much will we all have to know about the World, and its political in-clan machinations?
As I said, that's the part where I lost interest in the WoD, as it seems to complicate play too much.

And since you said that we'll be pretty much on our own in New York (there are so few vampires there, would there be much of a clan presence I'd think it would be a welcome environment that would spur coteries of many clans, instead of the heirarchical, clan-based traditional way that entrenched cities became).

BTW: we both love the idea of New York, and how there's a power- and tradition-vacuum there.
It seems to spur a game well and nurture the kind of cross-clan activity that makes for better play.

It IS hard for me to imagine in New York that we would be Embraced by 7th-Gen vampires : 9th gen Sires is pushing it, in my eyes, even tho I'd love lower gen...

But as I've said, I never really *got* V:tM once all the clan, low-generation, and political structure information was introduced.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

> And I've looked at that question sheet a few times already - I went over it with Vych (I'll stop calling her "my wife"), and it seemed like her background answered most of the questions on that page.




I'd still like it in the Q&A format though. It makes it a little easier on me.

There is still a lot to be delt with:

Were you a ghoul before you were a vampire? 
What was your embrace like? 
What were some significant events of your early days as Kindred? 
How do you view the others around you? 
*What are your long term goals?* [VERY Important]
*What are your short term goals? * [VERY Important]
What are you good at, and how do you use it to your advantage? 
Why are you where you are now? 
How do you view your existence now?

I plan to keep all of the histories together and the Q&A format makes for a much better refference than digging through a story. 

Even if they where both very good.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

*Experience*

You will get 1-2 experience points per week of real life time if you are an active poster. I'll probably give 2 points if you post once a day. I'll give you 1 just for being in the game. [Note: I do not count the weekends as I myself may not be on the boards.]

You will get bonus points for:

Playing strongly within your Nature and Demeanor.
Major plot points and goals met.
Taking part in and drving dramatic or pivitol scenes.
Whatever else I want.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I'll be posting an overview of the city and it's supernatural parasites soon.

I'll be sure to hit on the Tremere for you. Don't worry about their convoluted hierarchy. There just isn't enough of them to be a real "organization" like in some cities.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Vampire terminology: http://www.thekindred.com/?page=Lexicon

I can't stress enough how important www.thekindred.com is for newbies.


----------



## Shalimar

Where and when she was born and raised?
	Sabrina was born in 1995 in New York City.  She has been raised in the city her entire life, though that is a misnomer, as she hasn’t really been in the city but rather above it all.  Sabrina lives with her parents and “Uncle” Nathaniel in the top four floors of the hotel owned and originally built by Nathan centuries ago.  She has had a rather carefree life prior to the events surrounding her embrace.  She attended Chilton Academy Preschool, a highly expensive and prestigious school.  Following this she went to an all girls private school for two years.

What were your parents and family like?
	Her parents were warm and supportive, when they were ever around.  They are Ghouls in the service of their Ventrue Ancestor, Nathan, who has promised to eventually embrace them.  She had a pretty good relationship with him, and has a very close loving relationship with his newest Childe, her brother.  He is older, and has taken up some of the slack of raising her due to their father’s busy schedule.  Everyone around her is rather reserved, and always has been, besides her brother.  This hasn’t rubbed off and she acts like what she is, a child.  Now she is a child with powers beyond mortal comprehension.

What were some significant events of your life?
	The most significant in her life is her kidnapping, which was what led up to her embrace.  It was very violent lasting for several days, and during it she was raped.  It was during this time period that she became famous as her face was plastered on several news stations during the horrible situation.  She has only been kindred for a few days, so she is still in denial about the rape and has pushed it out of her mind as a defense mechanism.

What happened when you became a young adult?
N/A she is still a child.

Were you married or in love?
No to both, but she does have a kitten named Spots Mackenzie the 3rd that she loves

What was your embrace like?
Her embrace was an extremely traumatic experience for her, the most terrifying of her entire life.  Her sire, Elizabeth, had her kidnapped in the middle of the school day, and kept her bound with nothing to eat for two days.  Over the course of those two days she was raped, and terrorized by Elizabeth who used her disciplines just to instill fear just because of her rivalry with Nathan.  Nathan was eventually able to track her down, and called in a few favors from the prince to have her returned to his care.  

Because of the wording of the Prince’s order Elizabeth was still able to interfere with Nathan’s plans for the girl by embracing her, and forever stopping her from joining the Ventrue.  Because of the wording, it left her “uncle” in charge of her education, and responsible for her according to the traditions, and used up his newly granted right to sire.  Because she was taken from school her kidnapping it was impossible to hush it up, and it made the news, leaving her face posted on all the news channels, leaving her a minor dose of fame and media recognition.

What were some significant events of your early days as kindred?
The most significant events of her early days as kindred were her first feeding and her release back to her family, and the turmoil that the realization of her embrace caused.

Her first feeding was about the same as most. She nearly killed two men, ripping into them, instinctually using their own blood to strengthen her enough to hold them down as drained them almost to the last drop.  They would have died if Elizabeth hadn’t gifted them some of her own blood.  That initial need and blood lust is very frightening to her, and she has decided to never let herself get close to that again, if she can help it she will feed whenever she feels the slightest hunger.

 Because of her Brujah heritage her surrogate sire is leery of her, and not as trusting as he would be if he had embraced her.  He is an elder, and is used to taking what fate throws at him, but this is still a stinging blow, and her presence is a reminder of his rival.  It falls on his true childe, her brother (played by Jemal), to act as peacemaker and protector.   He is helping with some of his sire’s duties out of love for her, as well as feelings of guilt.

What Drew your Sire to you?
Elizabeth was drawn to me because I was the weakest of all those surrounding Nathan, all the others were super-natural in some way, and could have put up a fight in some way.  She embraced me out of hatred and spite, to interfere with his plans for me.

Was I a ghoul before my embrace?
No, but my parent’s were

How do you view those around you?
The only contact she has had with other vampires that she is aware of is with Elizabeth who she view as a monster.  She is still in the learning and tutelage process.  It has only been a few days, she has not really learned anything yet, she will learn about the other clans from in game instruction.  As of know she knows only two clans: Ventrue, and Brujah.

She sees the Ventrue clan as her family, loving, and protective all the members she has met are part of her family, and love her in their own way

The Brujah clan frightens her; she sees them as monsters from out of fairy tails as her only example is Elizabeth.


What are your goals?

Her long-term goals are:
To grow up (which is rather ironic as her body will never grow at all) which will cause anger and hatred towards Elizabeth making her destruction a very important (central to the character) long term-goal.  She also wants like all children to be able to take care of herself so that she gets to make the rules, and also wants someone to be there to take care of her (Her brother).  She never wants to kill or really hurt anyone while feeding

Short-term goals:
She wants to make up with Nathan, and get back on his good side; she doesn’t truly understand why he gets upset when he sees her sometimes.  She wants to learn how to control her disciplines, and she really wants to learn all about being a vampire because it’s so cool.  Her Birthday is coming up as well so she wants her parents to throw her a sleepover party.

What are you good at, and how do you use it to your advantage?
Sabrina will grow into a social butterfly as she matures, but her abilities are overshadowed by her youth, and will be for quite some time.  She can work well with computers, and can be quite the charmer if she wants something enough.  Her singsong voice and attitude can grow on just about anyone, and she was lucky enough that she still appears to be living (blush of health)

Why are you where you are now?
Sabrina is where she has always been, in New York City, staying with her family.  They are all she has, and her love is a guarantee that she will stay with them for a long time to come.

How do you view your existence now?
Sabrina thinks this is so cool; She just can’t wait to learn everything there is to know about Kindred society.  She doesn’t truly comprehend what has happened to her, so her outlook on it will probably change greatly


----------



## Timothy

Sorry that I have not be able to post my char yet, very sorry.


----------



## Jemal

_Where and when he was born and raised?_
Jemal was born in 1980 in New York City.  He has been raised in the city his entire life, and has
always known about vampires because of his parents and 'uncle' Nathan, his sire. He lives with 
Nathan, his parents and his sister, but stays mostly because of Sabrina(His sister, played by Shalimar).

*What were your parents and family like?*
His parents are warm and supportive, when they were ever around.  They are Ghouls in the service 
of their Ventrue Ancestor, Nathan, who has promised to eventually embrace them.  Jemal has a close relationship with Nathan, and managed to convince him to sire him a few weeks ago.  Jemal also has a very close loving relationship with his Younger Sister.  He is older, and has taken up some of the slack of raising her due to their father’s busy schedule, but doesn't mind because he loves his sister deeply and never wants anything bad to happen to her again.

*What were some significant events of your life?*
The most significant event in his life was his sisters kidnapping, which he blames himself for 
sometimes because it happened while he was writing his bar exam, so he wasn't around to protect 
her.  

*What happened when you became a young adult?*
When he became a young adult is when Jemal started getting interested in things 'occult'.  At the 
time he didn't know that Nathan was a vampire, but he was always checking out all the stories on 
the internet about them.  Soon his parents and uncle told him the truth and since then he has been trying to prove that he was worthy of being embraced, which finaly happened last month.

*Were you married or in love?*
Jemal has never been married, but he was in love once, as an adolescent, but she died in a car 
crash which was one of the things that originally got him interested in things dark.

*What was your embrace like?*
Jemals embrace was a long-anticipated event which was one of the best moments of his life.  He was sired by 'uncle' Nathan last month.

*What were some significant events of your early days as kindred?*
The only significant things that have happened since his embrace where his passing of the bar 
exam, and the kidnapping, rape, and illegal embracing of his sister Sabrina.  It was a very 
traumatic experience not knowing what would happen to her, and his anger and fear were so great 
that he sometimes forgot to feed, though Nathan quickly corrected that and managed to get Sabrina
returned to them.

*What Drew your Sire to you?*
Nathan has many different designs and plans, and Jemal fits into some of them.  Jemal is a smart, charismatic young man very much like his father.  What his father DOESN'T have, however, is the knack with computers that Jemal has developed.  Nathan knows that in order to be a factor in the coming years, he is going to need access to computers, and Jemal is one key to that.  Nathan has also been like a second father to jemal and they've always been close, so his embrace was never in question, only when it would happen.

*Was I a ghoul before my embrace?*
No, but my parent’s were

*How do you view those around you?*
Jemal has always looked up to vampires, because of their power and long lives.  Now that he is one of them, he still views the Ventrue with respect because of the place they've always held in his life.  The Brujah, on the other hand(Especially Elizabeth), have earned his despise because of what they did to his sister.  He tries to never actively show his hatred, trying to always remain cool and calm until the time for vengeance has arrived.  He knows little or nothing of the other clans, only what he has heard from Nathan and his parents.

*What are your goals?*
Long-term goals: To become Prince/Primogen (Or see Nathan do it).  
Short-term goals: To get back at Elizabeth.  To learn all about his new powers.  To care for his 
sister and teach her everything about being a vampire.

*What are you good at, and how do you use it to your advantage?*
Jemal is good at many things.  His main areas of expertise, though, are his abilities with 
computers, and his innate ability to make others see things his way, which is one of the things 
that makes him a great lawyer and made him a good canditate for the Ventrue.  He uses his skills
however he can, to best suit himself, his family, and his sire.  Most of all he uses them to 
further his own power and that of the two people in the world closest to him: Nathan and Sabrina.

*Why are you where you are now?*
Jemal has always lived with his family in New York.  He likes his parents, but is no closer to 
them than any other grown man is to his parents.  He stays there to learn from his sire and help 
look after his sister.

*How do you view your existence now?*
Jemal has always wanted to be a vampire, and now not only he, but his sister as well, have joined 
the ranks of the undead.  He knows what it means to be a vampire, and knows basically what his 'life' holds in store for him from now on, but doesn't mind because this is what he's always wanted.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

> What are your goals?
> Long-term goals: To become a Prince (Or see Nathan do it).




How? 



> Short-term goals: To get back at Elizabeth. To learn all about his new powers. To care for his
> sister and teach her everything about being a vampire.




This is a good place to put your plans for the Princedom.

How does one become a Prince? Favors.

Vampires live by a very serious game of debts and boons. It is a serious matter to owe a favor to another vampire and a great asset to be able to call on another to pay his boon to you.

This is the heart and soul of the Jyhad.

Vampires die the final death each night because of a boon owed or a debt repayed.

Make sure the important vampires owe you something or set yourself up to be able to better pay your debts if you are Prince. 

There is a reason vampires refer to the Jyhad as a great chess match.

Of course, resources and power in the mortal world are important as well. Having contacts within newspaper publishers, advertising, the city council, airports, import and exports etc. can all work to further your goals.  

Remember, there is also the position of Primogen to worry about.

Another question: When exactly where you embraced? One place says a couple of weeks ago, another says 2 days, and another place said last month.  

Where you embraced before or after Sabrina?

I'm also curious as to why you where embraced right away and never served time as a ghoul like your parents did/do. I don't mind or anything, but I'm curious why Nathan decided to skip that step with you.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I bet you are all cursing my name right now aren't you?

This really is the hard part I promise.


----------



## Shalimar

I don't hate you ash, I dislike having to come up with a viable skill list for an 8 year old, when even a single dot is considered colege level.  I really have no use for a lot of the backgrounds, like what 8 year-old has influence, contacts or any of the other stuff.


----------



## reapersaurus

Shalimar - I take it it wasn't OK to read that other story? (since you took it out of your sig so quick) 

I just read the first part of her background.  
I guess this thread should be labeled {MATURE}...

Oh - college level is 2 dots.
It's kinda funny (I always thought) how little skill is actually represented by one dot in abilities.
Like "Point and lick" is one dot in Computer, Subterfuge one dot is "you tell white lies"... 

so if you don't spend your limited points on a skill, you are a drooling idiot in that arena? 
I think in the 10 years since V:tM came out, maybe all characters in present modern-day should have 1 dot in Computers automatically.


----------



## Shalimar

It was fine Reapersaurus.  The game just kind of stalled out for awhile so I took it out of the sig til it picks up.  For the past four weeks the ST has ignored every other besides one.  I'll just have to use Kaitlen in another game, its kinda sad, I have done the most background on her out of all my characters, Its over 13 pages, and less then half complete.

Also, even 1 dot assumes a certain high-school level.


----------



## KitanaVorr

ok I posted my basic character sheet and a picture

now for all those long questions...


----------



## KitanaVorr

*Caitlyn Tran*

Where and when were you born and raised?
Born and bred in Sugar Land, Texas, (a suburb outside of Houston) in 1983 she’s the daughter of a wealthy physician and a socialite mother.  Now she lives in a tiny apartment in Manhattan with her best friend and roommate, Lisa Morales.

What were your parents and family like?
Her parents always wanted her to go to medical school, but she didn’t want that kind of regimented lifestyle.  She has a large extended family living in Houston, most of whom agreed with her parents that her decision to move to NYC was a foolish one.

What were some significant events of your young life?
The most significant event in her life involved her move across country, leaving her beloved Texas behind for the frightening other world of New York City.  Although she started with a scholarship at NYU, she found herself drifting away from all the regimented classes to a place where she could create beautiful music without teachers peering over her shoulder.  Taking jobs in jazz and rock clubs and joining a local metal/rock band, the “Kindred Knights”, as their new lead singer, were steps toward that goal.

What happened when you became a young adult?
She attended Saint Agnes Academy, a very prestigious college prep school where she discovered her potent singing voice and talent for music when she first joined the high school chorus.  Her ability earned her that scholarship to NYU.  

Were you married in your mortal life?  Where you in love?
She has never been in love before, truly in love beyond high school crushes.  Because of that, she’s a bit naïve in that area.  Besides, she considers herself too busy trying to jumpstart her career to mess with any of that.

What drew your sire to you? N/A
Were you a ghoul before you were a vampire? N/A
What was your embrace like? N/A
What were some significant events of your early days as Kindred? N/A

How do you view the others around you?
She is very considerate of others in the good old manner of southern hospitality.  Although she doesn’t know about the existence of vampires, her roommate is really into the occult and Caitlyn is very curious about it all.

What are your long term goals?
She wants to get her songs played on the radio and a record deal with a recording company.  But most of all, she would love to write a Broadway musical and have it produced.  She wants to prove to her parents that she didn’t make the wrong decision coming up here, that she was right to forget medical school in lieu of her singing and writing career.

What are your short term goals?
Surviving in the crush that is NYC is her primary goal.  She needs to keep on her rather exhausting career and yet still keep food on the table and have money for the exorbitant rents in the city.

What are you good at, and how do you use it to your advantage?
Caitlyn is a beautiful, charismatic woman with an incredible singing voice.  Her sweet and open personality endears her to many people right at the start.  She has no problems making friends and that becomes an advantage in finding people to help her.

Why are you where you are now?
She stays because she is still trying to make it big in NYC and she loves the atmosphere of the location.

How do you view your existence now?
Despite the hard work, Caitlyn loves her life right now because she’s doing everything that she loves.  All the different and fascinating people that populate this city have her hooked.  There is so much for her very curious mind to take in, that sometimes she feels as if she would implode with all the things she learns every day.

Is there more? Not at this moment.


----------



## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Experience
> You will get bonus points for:
> Playing strongly within your Nature and Demeanor.*



I know this is gonna sound persnickety, but the strict following of Nature/Demeanor, even to the point of awarding XP for it, seems limiting and not in the spirit of roleplay to me.

I felt that the narrow, pre-conceived one-word descriptions of what your character was Truly like and how he/she Acted was too strait-jacketing.

Should I view that "system" as just a way of encouraging the players true to their backgrounds?
If so, that's OK, and a good idea.

I would try to do that anyway, it's just that the small # of Natures they list in the rules don't adequately describe Nikolai to me. 
I've always struggled with how to accurately peg him in a one-word title.

What's the final word on max Generation?


----------



## Shalimar

I agree on the natures being limited.  Sabrina is a mixture of Bon Vivant and Child, neither is her entirely because they are all written to describe adults.  Now I think as a basic thing to start off they are fine.

I am almost ok with dropping her gen a little, but there isn't much else that would work within the confines of her story.  I don't want to buy up more abilities because as it is she is really above the skills of a child already.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Aren't you allowed to come up with your own nature or demeanor types? instead  of relying on what the book says?  I couldn't figure out a combination exactly  myself either so I choose the best I could think of to describe her.

As to what clan Caitlyn will be in, I don't know really.  I'm just going with the flow of the whole thing and seeing what turns out.  She has a strong artistic streak though if that helps.  I suppose whatever clan wants a virtuoso to add their lists.

I'm not sure how exactly she'll be "embraced" either.  I assumed that she'd be embraced maybe because they wanted to preserve her virtuoso talent, or someone fell in love with her, or she's in danger and it was the only way?  LOL I don't really know.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I don't hate you ash, I dislike having to come up with a viable skill list for an 8 year old, when even a single dot is considered colege level.  I really have no use for a lot of the backgrounds, like what 8 year-old has influence, contacts or any of the other stuff. *




Because of the unique nature of your character....

If you want, I'll let you spend your background points as freebie points.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Don't worry much on natures and demeanors. They are a tool, not a crutch.

Shalimar: You can just put "Bon Vivant/Child".

I don't mind if you guys need more than 1 descriptor to define your character.

Either that, or just use something not in the books. I'm not a Nature and Demeanor nazi.


I had another thought about Sabrina. If you want, you can say that the Curse of Caine artificially matured her in some ways. Maybe her cunning, reasoning, and instincts have increased beyond that of a normal child as part of a survival instinct born of the blood. Make sense? She has the body of a child, but in some ways, the mind of a twenty year old.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I was looking over the characters and it looks like all is well.

However, I'm going to say that 10th is the Gen maximum. That means Sabrina and Jemal has a background point they need to move around.

If you want to go to 9th gen, is will cost you two background points.

REMEMBER: There is always diablerie...


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Ashrem - Nikolai would never think of Embracing KV's character - she happens to be a singer, which is what Nikolai's murdered love was.
> He has the Flaw of Prey Exclusion (singers, or more generally, entertainers). He'd try not to bring harm to them, as that would be like assaulting his memory of his betrothed.  (if you hadn't noticed, I tried to go high-tragedy with Nikolai) *




ah but what if he didn't know she was a singer?  what would that do to him?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

It would likely destroy what remains of his humanity..... I like it.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Oh

I plan on changing her nature/demeanor after her embrace.  It will affect her tremendously as she will be a little, well, on the razor sharp edge of crazy until her acceptance of her transformation is complete and her post-embrace personality comes out.  I'm thinking of having her parents be a rather religious bunch so that will be part of the difficulty of her acceptance of the embrace.  

I don't think she would willingly go up to a vamp and say  "hey embrace me, pal, sink 'dem fangs in" so I would prefer her embrace be done unwillingly (either by accident or otherwise) so I can have fun with her mental dilemma.

How does that suit you, Ash?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Thats fine. 

I have no problem with you becoming a vampire having an impact on your personality.


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *As to what clan Caitlyn will be in, I don't know really.  I'm just going with the flow of the whole thing and seeing what turns out.  She has a strong artistic streak though if that helps.  I suppose whatever clan wants a virtuoso to add their lists.
> 
> I'm not sure how exactly she'll be "embraced" either.  I assumed that she'd be embraced maybe because they wanted to preserve her virtuoso talent, or someone fell in love with her, or she's in danger and it was the only way?*



Ashrem and Kitana -
After reading the above, Caitlyn sounds like a Toreador like my character. If so, I could bite her. 
ô¿ô
v-v

Ashrem, will it be okay if I have been a vampire for a little while? My character was born in 1950 and was embraced in 1980. She came to NYC because of her sire, Carrick Ashton. He owns a night club and they are married or blood bound (whichever you prefer). You'll read about it once I get my question and answer page up that you wanted. Since 1980-ish Vych has been doing a lot of human type stuff - throwing parties to get Carrick's name out there as a prominent club owner, public relation type stuff really. This might explain why she hasn't advanced so much as a vampire. 

As for why we moved to NY: I'm thinking that Carrick would have been overjoyed by the Camarilla taking NY back. He's a business man and that action would promot new business opportunities.

Kitana - Vychtorya could have been scouting out the local club scene looking for new talent. She could lure your character into being a vampire by taking you to high society parties like you would have been used to in Texas with the parents you had and offering you a permanent position at the club, a nice apartment, etc...Or, I can understand that your character may not want to be a vampire if you have a religous background. Vych could force the issue too if you wanted. If Ashrem lets her be a little older vampire as I asked above, my character wants a daughter to do things with like she did with her own mortal mother. Vych wants that badly. Maybe badly enough that she would go against her humanity for it. Anyway, just a couple of thoughts. I'm sure I'll have some more later.  If these aren't a way you'd like to go, that's okay too.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Sorry. As I said a few pages back, 6 months tops.

A big part of this game is going to be about starting your life over as a vampire.

It shouldn't be too hard to adjust your background.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

*Kindred of Note*

*Katherine Weise*
A relative newcomer, she is very active in the politics of the Kindred. She take interest in most of the affairs of the elders, but does not seem to be interested in the position of Prince herself. Instead, she seems to use her influences to further her own personal goals.
Katherine appears to be rather pretty young lass with chestnut curls embraced during her late adolescence. She is always seen with a silk scarf rapped around her neck and face that covers her mouth. Her demeanor suggests that she may be older than she lets own.

*Theo Bell*
Theo was instrumental in the siege of New York from the Sabbat. He is an Archon* (read enforcer) of clan Brujah and has a reputation of being the kind of person who will beat you to a bloody spot and ask questions later. He has been put in place to support Calebros, the new Prince. Rumor has it he was a slave in the south before his embrace.
Tall dark and handsome, Theo is a well muscles black man who often sports a goat-tee and New York Yankees hat.

*Elizabeth Horsmanden “Marlena”*
Apparently only recently arriving in NY, Marlena has jumped into Kindred politics with both feet. She seems to have made it a point to at every Elysium** since her arrival. She seems to be a contender for one of the Primogen*** positions. Rumor has it that she is a Brujah.
She appears to have been embraced in her late twenties. She is athletically built and has long black hair. She would be considered beautiful if it weren’t for the corneal infection she had before the embrace. She often wears sunglasses even inside sense her enhanced vampiric senses aren’t hindered by them.

*David Morgan, The Scourge*
David is a wholehearted traditionalist who has decided to take the world on his shoulders. He came to New York to find a purpose for himself. It turns out, he did. Calebros appointed him as the scourge**** after he fought well in the battle against the Sabbat.
He takes his duty very seriously and brooks no nonsense.
David is not a large man, but he carries a great deal of bulk on his medium sized frame. He tends to prefer dark clothing which often reflects his mood.

*Carter Vanderweyden*
Carter, like many other Kindred, came to New York looking for an opportunity. His level headedness and fairness landed him in a position as advisor for Calebros. Now since Calebros has announced that he plans to step down, rumor has it that Carter plans to make a bid for the Princedom. He has support, but some fear his frankness and strong traditional tendencies may make him a bit of a tyrant. Second, Carter is prone to blackouts during which time he acts normally, but he can’t recall what happens during these times later. Most believe him to be of the Malkavian clan.
Carter is a calm and intelligent kindred. He is the “eye of the storm” and rarely gets ruffled. He wears high fashion clothing and wears his dirty blond hair tousled on top and short in the back.

*Calebros, the Erstwhile Prince*
Calebros had been a resident of NY for the last 50 years. Even while the Sabbat was dominate, he and his fellow Nosferatu scurried through the dark sewers and listened to the world above. It was his information and intelligence that landed him in the position he is in today.
When the smoke from the battle with the Sabbat cleared, Calebros rose as the Prince***** of New York. The elders of the Camarilla proclaimed him prince and then promptly left the city in his hands to deal with. Calebros has made it clear that he does not want the position, but will see it through until a better candidate steps forward. That candidate must fit his own criteria and have the backing of the primogen council.

*Qadir al-Asmai, the Sheriff*
Qadir took part in the siege on New York like many others did. His track record there and his duties served in the past gained him the position of Sheriff******. Qadir has a reputation of being a very proficient hunter of the undead. He is rumored to have served a sheriff and scourge in other cities and has the job here in NY because he is good.
Qadir is straight and to the point. His job leaves little room for the politics and manipulation so ingrained in most kindred. He looks like he might easily be a mid-eastern Sultan so striking is his appearance. His hair is long, wavy and black and he keeps a finely trimmed goatee. Despite his position, Qadir dresses in fine suits and adorns himself with elegant jewelry such as watches and pendants. 

*Aisling Sturbridge, High Regent of the Chantry of the Five Burroughs *
Aisling was called from Atlanta to New York to help with the siege. Her superiors within the clan called on her for her expertise in dealing with the Sabbat. Aisling has yet to leave New York and currently works to build the Tremere’s influence within the city. 
Aisling is a beautiful woman who appears to have been embraced during her mid twenties. She is very analytical and seemingly wants to study everything. She often dresses down her femininity, wearing tailored suits and even sometimes glasses. Some vampires claim that she looks at them as if studying them through a microscope.

*Valentine*
A resident of New York city since before the fall of the Sabbat, Valentine has remained hidden until the camarilla took the city. Now, Valentine has become a significant figure among New York’s Kindred. His wealth, garnered from import and investment companies, has earned him a play among the social elite. Valentine is the man you want to talk to if you want to “make it in the world”. He has a reputation of always willing to lend a hand to those who want to “climb the ladder”. Though of course, then you owe him for his help. Valentine is of Ventrue descent and most know this.
Valentine always dresses as the epitome of the latest fashions. Valentine has sharp features and reddish brown hair that was long before his embrace. However, he has a servant cut his hair each night.

*Stephen Patrick Maslowe, “Mazz”*
Mazz, as he is called, has set himself up as a local gangster. His reputation has spread into the mortal realm and often finds himself on the cover of the paper and other such nonsense when the reporters can’t find a better story. By default, Mazz has become one of New York’s high profile Kindred. Mazz’s reputation as a quaint “old-style” gangster, is part of the reason the locals love him. He has been in the press lately with his “rough sex fetish” in which the girls where left. Bloodied, bruised, and weak. Still, they come back. 
Mazz stands out as being one part hooligan, one part glam, and one part dandy. He dresses in high fashion clothes and it is rumored that he carries an old revolver from the nights of the Wild West. Rumor has it that he is a member of clan Brujah.

*Hellene Panhard*
Hellene was embraced many years ago simply because her sire needed weapons. She was. Hellene was born into a wealthy family of bankers and, instead of fighting physically; she was able to call upon that wealth to help fund the battle. Because of the manner of her embrace, Hellene was considered a bastard childe. However, she vowed to rise above that. In fact, she intends to become Prince of New York City. Liberal minded, for a Ventrue, Hellene hopes to win over the support of her fellow Kindred with promises of a loose reign and fair judgments. She favors reconstruction before restriction.
Hellene is rather plain looking to be a Harpy. She is slightly plump, but carries herself with considerable grace for a woman with her build.


*Groups and Cotories*

The Tremere of Note
Asiling Sturbridge – The High Regent of the Five Burrows.
Eugenio Estevez “Genie” – a reclusive regent who specializes in Spirit Manipulation.
Lord Ephraim Wainwright “Imp” – a dwarf regent of astounding (heretical?) occult lore.
Masika St. John, the CamNet Innovator – the inventor of Technomancy.

The Harpies
Mazz – an old-time gangster who has been in the spotlight lately.
Thomas Arturo – an architect before the embrace, he now builds havens for other exclusive kindred.
Hellene Panhard – a very resourceful woman with an eye for the Princedom.

*The Midnighters (Coterie)*

A group of young vampires born out of a common love for street racing. The have managed to make a few contacts among the police to better stay out of trouble. They shy away from politics in favor of fun.

The Sabbat
The Sabbat, devil worshipping heathen vampires who have rejected their humanity and embraced the beast, the name itself is like a boogieman to young vampires of the Camarilla. Their presence in the big Apple was all but stamped out during the siege laid by the Camarilla and their mortal pawns. Still, rumor has it that a few packs roam the streets at night. Maybe this is just stories told to keep the children in line…….maybe not.

Note: These are not all of the vampires in the city. There are still dozens that hold no claim to Kindred infamy or just haven’t been met by the PCs yet.


______________

If you want to include these vampires in you background, let me know.

I'll get up pictures for each Kindred and definitions for the words with "*"s soon. I'll put them in the Rogues Gallery then.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Kitana - Vychtorya could have been scouting out the local club scene looking for new talent. She could lure your character into being a vampire by taking you to high society parties like you would have been used to in Texas with the parents you had and offering you a permanent position at the club, a nice apartment, etc...Or, I can understand that your character may not want to be a vampire if you have a religous background. Vych could force the issue too if you wanted. If Ashrem lets her be a little older vampire as I asked above, my character wants a daughter to do things with like she did with her own mortal mother. Vych wants that badly. Maybe badly enough that she would go against her humanity for it. Anyway, just a couple of thoughts. I'm sure I'll have some more later.  If these aren't a way you'd like to go, that's okay too. *




I like the idea of them knowing each other via the club scene.  Cate's been trying to get her music (the songs she wrote herself) out there.  It is feasible that they would run into each other.

Cate herself is not religious, but her parents are, so some of that will come up during her period of adjusting.  She desparately wants to prove herself to her parents, and she knows they would never accept her as a vampire, that they would consider her a demon, a hellish abomination.

Also since she comes from wealth, she's not too impressed with it.  However, making contacts to get wealthy patrons for her music, _that_ she would like.  She's more into her creating music and proving to her parents that she was right about her decision.  Its her obsession.  

LOL hmm...I don't know if I want a "mommy" though


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Ashrem Bayle _*If you want to include these vampires in you background, let me know.*




Hmm I think it would be feasible if any of them hung out at some nice jazz or rock clubs, they would find Cate  familiar.

Valentine does sound pretty interesting!  And if he's such a mover and shaker, he would be someone that Cate would want to meet to get him to be a patron of her music.  Of course  she obviously doesn't know he's a vamp.

btw

after reading the pdf V:tM that reapersaurus sent me I'm going to up her Appearance to a 5 to make her very striking so it helps her charisma/social interaction/networking opportunities.  

Makes her kind of perfect for the mythical siren, eh? luring men to their doom...oops...that would probably the be vamp Cate...not the sweet southern Cate....I must be thinking of Enraela again...lol different game...


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *LOL hmm...I don't know if I want a "mommy" though  *



hmmm....  there's that freaky vampire "sire" and "childer" thing coming up again.

Honestly, it kinda creeps me out (personally now) how Vampires use this parochial or matriarchal life structure, throwing away their mortal coil and clinging to their Sire like a parent.

But I guess that's kind of the way it is in vampiredom.   
?

All the things I've read have vampires "aching" to Embrace someone that piques their curousity, or revives their imagination, or turns them on, or makes them feel again after being dead for so long (dead in MANY ways ).

As for Nikolai, the 6-months-as-a-vampire makes sense, power-wise (since he's new, but been acquiring as much power as possible in 6 months : he'll have 5 Discipline points probably).

But character-wise, it would make sense that he'd have been a vampire for probably 10 years at least.

See, the general idea of the character is as a Tragic Character, who was physical (a bodyguard), and much in love when Tragedy entered his life in the form of a deranged Vampire of old (a corrupted Toreador who snuffs out True Love whenever he experiences that wretched rare human gift).
This tragedy changes Nikolai, so that his only thought is Revenge.
He scours the world, changing himself, becoming an Academic, trying to find power in ancient texts and Rituals and magic, eventually falling in with a vampire hunting group of humans (the rare humans who actually know they exist).
He views all vampires as a scourge on humanity, by extension hating them, projecting his hatred of The-One-Vampire-that-slew-his-love (a.k.a. The Monster).

Over the years of Hunting, he begins to see that no human force will be able to be Strong enough to present a credible threat to The Monster.
So he is approached by an exotic book-dealer (his Sire), and offered the means by which to destroy The Monster by becoming that which he hates the most.

Classic tragi-drama, no? 

After becoming Embraced, his only thought is acquiring enough Power to kill The Monster.

Now this desire for revenge and power has not been without cost.

He has slowly lost the True Memory of his Humanity and his Love for HIS Victoria (while my wife plays Vychtorya, I made Nikolai's love be named Victoria : they do not know each other, and will not become "an item" : I'm planning in the future for Vychtorya to help spark the memory of Nik's Victoria, and hopefully be the catalyst for him to claw back to being closer to a Human).

So at this point in his life, he's a rather nasty, amoral, do-anything kind of guy. Though his motives are basically pure, the means by which he acquires the power could be rather grisly. Thus he has rather low Humanity score, but over the course of the Chronicle, would become more Human if he can be reminded of what Love was like.

So that's why it'd be cool if he had been a Vampire for awhile, having been steeped in evil and selfishness for years before turning back to The Light, but that's cool if I condense it to 6 months of decrepitness...   

I'll be posting my character and the "answer sheet" shortly (tomorrow at the latest, hopefully).

edit: if anyone has a good name for The Monster, I'm all ears.
The Heartstealer, or The HeartKiller... something like that -  he's a legendary, quasi-mythic vampire that's been around for centuries thats even a Mystery to the vampire community.


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus [/i][B]
 (while my wife plays Vychtorya said:


> *
> edit: if anyone has a good name for The Monster, I'm all ears.
> The Heartstealer, or The HeartKiller... something like that -  he's a legendary, quasi-mythic vampire that's been around for centuries thats even a Mystery to the vampire community. *




How about Heartsbane or Lovesbane?  Hey if he's so mythical, maybe there are myths about him in human mythology.  Sounds like a good topic for one of Cate's songs, lol


----------



## Shalimar

Heart-Fang, Fang-Face, Casanova,or  Old Long Fang might work Reap


----------



## Jemal

About the prince/primogen thing - He's kinda new and still working that out.

_Of course, resources and power in the mortal world are important as well. Having contacts within newspaper publishers, advertising, the city council, airports, import and exports etc. can all work to further your goals. _
Yep, working stuff like that into background (Contacts/allies)

_Another question: When exactly where you embraced? One place says a couple of weeks ago, another says 2 days, and another place said last month.  _
Whoops.. I was changing it a few times trying to get it to fit right.. At one point or another I was sired at every point in the last 6 months.  I'll edit it to the right point.

_I'm also curious as to why you where embraced right away and never served time as a ghoul like your parents did/do. I don't mind or anything, but I'm curious why Nathan decided to skip that step with you._
um.. because I'm so damn kewl?  Actually it's been part of his plans for a while to turn me.  The main part of the reason he skipped that step is because He wanted me to be by his side with my present talents, when I'm at the top of my game.  Also he embraced me before my parents b/c he's trying to move into the computer age and my skills with newer stuff helps him do that, seeing as how I'm very loyal to him.


----------



## KitanaVorr

so what are we waiting for to start the game (besides Timothy) ?


----------



## reapersaurus

2 questions:
1) I am totally blanking on the rules for making a human.
Why do they get 21 freebie points?
And Kitana, are you going to change the whole point structure once you're Embraced? That's kind of tough to have to create a human, with their points, and no powers, etc, then make a Vampire later.
And did you decide  - oh geez!

I just realized that Vychtorya typed out a long post asking you questions about both your characters, and your opinions on whether and how they would be 'involved'.
It must have been lost when the power went out here the other night. 

So Kitana - I'll ask for her -  do you WANT to be a Toreador?
It sounds to me that your character is most like that clan - have you gotten to read up on the different clans?
If so, do you WANT Vychtorya to bite you?
You would be Toreador then, and she would be your Sire, but not your 'mommy' per se (since she will only have been Embraced for 6 months, and she's only 30 human years old, I think she said she would be Embracing you because of your artisitc talents.)

She was thinking that since New York has such a small number of vampires, than the traditions that usually keep the # of Embraces would probably be loosened here, and of course the Toreador house must grow, so why not take the opportunity to bring a high talent into the fold, and also 'test' out the vampire ability, since you would be her first childe.

2nd question (for Ashrem):
How do you want to run the # of Rituals that Nikolai would have?
Maybe you have access to some of those rituals from various sources (mainly the Core rulebook, Clanbook : Tremere, and Blood Magic:SoT, even some speciality ones in Blood Sacrifice)?
There are so many, it would be a shame not to be able to use a few of them if your Chronicle calls for them...


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*1) I am totally blanking on the rules for making a human.Why do they get 21 freebie points? *




I don't know, I just follow what Ash and Shalimar tell me.  I know nothing. 



> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*And Kitana, are you going to change the whole point structure once you're Embraced? That's kind of tough to have to create a human, with their points, and no powers, etc, then make a Vampire later. *




Well I'd have to work that out with Ash but I think it will just be new stuff will open up to me and I get a few points to stick in there?  I'm not sure how it will change.



> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*  do you WANT to be a Toreador? It sounds to me that your character is most like that clan - have you gotten to read up on the different clans? If so, do you WANT Vychtorya to bite you? *




I've been talking with Jemal outside the forums (gasp i know, shocking isn't it?) and I like going with his idea, but there's no reason that Vych wouldn't be looking to try and recruit Cate for her clan before that happens.  I agree that Cate would fit in perfectly with the Toreador clan (now that I've read the V:tM pdf) but I like the idea of Jemal sinking his teeth in first.  It could be a sort of fun contention between the two of them, add some conflict and something interesting to the group dynamic.

I'm all for conflict, drama, and idiosyncrasies anyday!  More conflict the better...especially the subtle, mental conflicts...they are the best...the battle of the wits.  I do love playing chess...


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *I've been talking with Jemal outside the forums (gasp i know, shocking isn't it?) and I like going with his idea, but there's no reason that Vych wouldn't be looking to try and recruit Cate for her clan before that happens. *



I've re-read the last few pages of this thread, and the Rogue's Gallery, and damned if I'm missing completely any connection between Caitlyn and Jemal's vamp.
What is this idea he has of Embracing Caitlyn? (it might be there, somewhere - just point me to it and I can try to understand)

- Also, why woudn't you talking to Jemal outside of the Forums be shocking?
Do you know him IRL, or something? I'm ignorant of it...

- Caitlyn's Demeanor : would perhaps Competitor or Perfectionist be a match?

-[edit] Replying to Kitana's earlier comment:
I am not having Nikolai know of Vychtorya at all before this starts.
I am strongly against using her character  as a love interest - she is a story element to in the future hopefully start to bring him back from the dark side.
The reason they are named the same (different spelling) is that my wife really wanted to name her character Vychtorya (complete with spelling ), while the inspiration for my character (as linked on my webpage) is Dream Theater's incredible album, Scenes From a Memory. The main character in the story is Nicholas, and his past-life soul-spirit that was murdered in a jealous brotherly tryst is named..  you guessed it.. Victoria.
I even included sound-bytes of the songs on Nik's story page that closely illustrate the events of Nik's life.
(I'm curious what people think of the multimedia-story)

- Ashrem - 
For Nikolai, I think he'd be most involved with Qadir al-Asmai, the Sheriff, and of course Aisling Sturbridge, High Regent of the Chantry.
He'd have spoke with Qadir about his background (Nikolai spent many years in the Middle East while Hunting and researching ancient tomes) and whether he's heard or seen The Heartsbane during his Hunts in the City.

And I'd love to place 5 dots in Thaumaturgy, but have you seen the 5th level Discipline for Path of Blood?!
It's close to useless - it would be great, except that Thaumaturgy powers require a blood point and a Willpower roll with a Difficulty of Power +3. (Difficulty 8 for level 5 ability)
So even with Nikolai's 10 Willpower maxed out, Cauldron of Blood would at most gain on average around 1 or 2 successes. 
It also requires a 'touch attack' (which I'm not sure exactly what that means, mechanically) AND they can still soak the damage!

Any ideas how to make Cauldron of Blood a useable power?
I've never actually used any Vampire powers in combat, though I think it would be really fun to.

- Are we even going to be having any combat, Ashrem?
I know that Vampire is a political game, but looking at our characters, I think we've all kind of neglected any physical threat aspect to our PC's.
I know that I have somewhat meta-gamed it, knowing that V:tM is notoriously social, so I've suffered Nik's physical stats and spent them on Social attributes.
But to a point, wouldn't most of us be dog food if we couldn't protect ourselves in a Predatory big city, especially one that is so relatively Lawless, lacking the strong Tradition and heirarchy of more mature vampire cities?

-Everyone - 
Do you think it would be a good idea to copy-n-paste the Q&A into the Rogue's Gallery thread?
Kinda keep em all in one place, for easy reference.

Sorry there's a lot of thoughts in this post, guys, but I think there's a lot of stuff to cover and talk about this game in addition to just roleplaying it - that's part of why I'm excited about this game.
I'm curious what everyone's responses to some of these comments are.


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## Jemal

No, Kitana and I don't know each other IRL (Though most of you guys/gals are pretty kewl and I wouldn't mind knowing you IRL).  I think what she meant by the 'shocking' comment was us actually being somewhere besides on the boards.

As for the connection, well, it has something to do with Jemals earlier life and his Ventrue "one type of victim only" choice.

Combat?  Why would any of us need to fight when there are other ways you can... 'convince' them that you don't need to fight?  Or you can have your retainers/allies/animals/followers/slaves etc help you out.  OR you can curse them or cast spells at them (I think one of the disciplines lets you do that stuff).  Lots of alternatives to fighting.


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## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*I've re-read the last few pages of this thread, and the Rogue's Gallery, and damned if I'm missing completely any connection between Caitlyn and Jemal's vamp.What is this idea he has of Embracing Caitlyn? (it might be there, somewhere - just point me to it and I can try to understand)
> *




What Jemal said.



> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*- Also, why woudn't you talking to Jemal outside of the Forums be shocking?Do you know him IRL, or something? I'm ignorant of it...*




What Jemal said again.  The only person on the boards that I know IRL is Krizzel.



> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*- Caitlyn's Demeanor : would perhaps Competitor or Perfectionist be a match?
> *




You know...perfectionist would be a match.  That's a good idea.  She does have a strong desire for parental approval, or just approval for her choices in life as well.  I don't know where that would fit.



> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*I am strongly against using her character  as a love interest - *




Why?  I thought it might be cute.  Someone reawakening your heart again after the horror that was inflicted on it.  Obviously not right away, but later on in the story when many things have passed and she's rewakened you to humanity.  If she's the one you plan on having  you return to humanity, I would think you'd have a strong bond with her.



> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*But to a point, wouldn't most of us be dog food if we couldn't protect ourselves in a Predatory big city, especially one that is so relatively Lawless, lacking the strong Tradition and heirarchy of more mature vampire cities?*




I'm sure there could be some combat, but I'd like to dwell more on the mind games in the story.  Besides my character is even more toast.  She's not even a vamp.



> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*Do you think it would be a good idea to copy-n-paste the Q&A into the Rogue's Gallery thread?Kinda keep em all in one place, for easy reference.*




I agree in fact I was going to do that myself anyway.  Also where is your character?  He's not posted in the rogue gallery.


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

Wow. A lot was said. I'll try to hit some of those points.

Human to Vampire: I seem to remember the storyteller's guide mentioning this. I'll either use it's advice or make up my own system. 

Fighting? There may be some. Probably with humans. Depends on how you feed and how well you stay out of trouble. 

Cauldron of Blood: I love this power. First of all, it is instant death to a mortal. No save, no health levels, do not pass go, do not collect $200.    Second, it is one of VERY few ways to inflict aggravated damage makes at least a few blood points unusable. Remember, you can only soak agg damage with Fortitude. So unless you are fighting someone with Fortitude, you will be able to deal out an average of 2 points of agg damage per round. Now remember, you can also spend a willpower point for an automatic success, so you will average at least 3 then. If by chance you luck up and do 4 or 5 levels, any vampire with any brains is going to get out of Dodge.

Rituels: If you have Thaumaturgy 5....
Level 1: 5
Level 2: 4
Level 3: 3
Level 4: 2
Level 5: 1

Notice a pattern?   If you decide on Level 4 instead, use that same pattern (Level 1: 4, Level 2: 3, etc.)

You can have rituels from any source, but I reserve the right to veto them.   

As far as I know, the biggest hold up is Timothy.

Got to go now, the wife is calling me to dinner. Will check back in later.


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## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*So at this point in his life, he's a rather nasty, amoral, do-anything kind of guy. Though his motives are basically pure, the means by which he acquires the power could be rather grisly. Thus he has rather low Humanity score, but over the course of the Chronicle, would become more Human if he can be reminded of what Love was like.*




I just thought of something about that.   You said something about Vych reminding you of your lost love.  

Well that could be interesting in itself.  Think about how you are a vampire, now, your whole life has been devoted to revenge.  What if you met her and she is so much like your Victoria?  What if you found yourself drawn to her despite it all?  You'll be angry with yourself, no doubt, angry at her for disrupting your lifes plan, but you can't help it.  First you say its lust, but what if it wasn't?  What if you don't want it to be, but it is actually love?  Ah, amore.

Well what if falling in love again, being in love just like with your Victoria although it gives you back your humanity...what if it brings Heartsbane back to you.  So ironically you found the monster you sought so ferverently for at the moment when you stopped looking?

I think that would be an interesting story arc, a good side story to the whole campaign.


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## reapersaurus

wow.
That's a prety cool idea, Kitana.
I hadn't thought of the Heartsbane coming back.
But actually, the 'love' that Vampires can summon, in my eyes, is a pale shadow of the flame that burns within humans.

*In my view (and understanding) of vampires, anything they can possibly do creatively, emotionally, etc, can't even compare to the simplest mortal expression of the same.*

It's the reason why many Toreador, in my opinion, would sommit suicide -
once they realize that their greatest creative work doesn't have the spark that any human can create, they more than any other clan, eould probably have enough passion left to see the real picture, and give up this sham of a "life".

So that's the problem with Nikolai finding love as a vampire.
But Vych was just going to remind him of his Victoria - I was going to have Victoria appear to Nik in a dream at a masquerade ball, then have her shape blur away and reveal Vychtorya.
Then that event would actually happen, since Vych holds balls all the time - it's a passion of hers.  (joke intended)

But the funny thing is - Vych doesn't sing - Caitlyn DOES.


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## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle [Home] said:
			
		

> *Fighting? There may be some. Probably with humans. Depends on how you feed and how well you stay out of trouble.
> 
> Cauldron of Blood: I love this power. *



Thanks for your input.
edit: I guess it is at least agg damage, but compare it to the 2nd level power (Blood Rage) which might cause the subject to spend almost as much vitae. (Avg number: 5 or 6 points of blood spent)

Path of Flames is lots of agg damage, but it doesn't match my idea of Nikolai at all.

Mastery of the Mortal Shell, from Blood MAgic, is a very close match to Nikolai's personality (he'd love to hold the Heartsbane against his will, like it did to him), but 
a) it's a secondary path
b) the higher level powers are just too weak... 

It's too bad we won't be fighting some vampires - I would guess that this setting, more than any other, lends itself to skirmishes with Sabbat and violent encounters with contenders for power from the Camarilla.

Then again, doesn't the fact that we have pretty social-specialized vampires dictate that we _can't_ have a combat scene or 2?
(also, in your experience, are humans a real threat in combat to vampires?
I don't see how they could be...)


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## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *But the funny thing is - Vych doesn't sing - Caitlyn DOES.  *




OoooH.  I thought the "enchanting voice" merit thing was for singing or something for vampires.  I don't mind if she reminds him of Victoria but he's pretty scary looking and at first sight she is going to be freaked out, Mr. Low-Humanity.  LOL okay that just had a Phantom of the Opera feel to it there.

Vampires have pale versions of love you say?  Yes, then after her transformation Cate will be pretty distraught, but I don't really want her embraced right away or anything.  I want to experience her as a human on the edge of their world before throwing her in outright.


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## Shalimar

Enchanting Voice gives your voice a quality that is hard to resist, it makes you better at giving orders, seduction, and persuasion.  I gave Sabrina's voice a more singsong quality to set it apart from everyone else's, thats why I choose it.


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## reapersaurus

It's funny that in a game where it's all about the talking, we all took Enchanting Voice merit.  

And Shalimar - since it seems that your posting this weekend, what is the reference for a human having 21 freebie points, and 6/4/3 attributes, etc?

Jemal - you took as a Ventrue limited prey singers?!
That's Nikolai's Prey Exclusion!  LOL
crud - now THERE's a built-in conflict. 

edit: I just saw your update - 
Wouldn't you have 2 more freebie points? 
I only count 13 spent?
And would your Demeanor be Caregiver to your sister?
Wouldn't it be your outward face for everyone else?

Shalimar - wouldn't you also have 2 freebie points left?
I think you counted double on the Willpower score - you started with 4, added 2, but charged yourself 4 for it.
Just trying to play it right (and in this case, help out).

P.S. maybe someone could Photoshop in some fangs on Sabrina on that pic you got - that would really be unsettling, seeing so innocent-LOOKING of child, all blonde-and-blue-eyes, but raring back and draining someone...


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## KitanaVorr

oh I just realized something

if what you say is true, that vampires have a shallow version of love and Cate is bitten before she ever truly falls in love then she'll never really know true love in human form (of course thats also in Sabrina's case which is a bit sadder b/c she'll never be able to "grow" up physcially) but that would be a killer for songwriter either way to never really be able to fully experience the emotion in order to write a song.

oh oh so tragic...

I also realized something.  I don't know any songs in Vietnamese!  I was going to have her sing some but the only ones I know are in Chinese or Japanese!  Oh dear! 

EDIT: I should add another language and move a point somewhere

EDIT2: I'm sorry...the prey exclusion vs prey choice has me cracking up..."BITE" or "NO BITE"....BITE...NO BITE....BITE...NO BITE...so nobody gets to eat?


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## Vychtorya

Kitana - 
Do you think that gamewise Ventrue would fit with your character concept the best? They are the bluebloods of the Camarilla. They are very suit and tie type vampires with a great hold on tradition because of the role they play. If it wasn't for them, the Masquerade would not exist. They value prestige and titles more than individual talent.

As I read your character concept, Toreador would be the easiest to move into. I don't have to be the one to bite you. I'm not trying to sway you to my Toreador side by my comments. I'm just trying to help based on what I know about after reading the book. 

It was cute what you said about Nikolai and Vychtorya. Unfortunately though she is already bound to her true love and sire, Carrick Ashton. That doesn't mean he won't catch her eye though. He's not an ugly guy; he's fixable. A brillo pad and a good manicure should do the trick. 

Jemal - 
Don't you have someone in the game relying on you? Or is Sabrina kinda on her own since she got bitten by Elizabeth from a different clan? Can I ask you why Ventrue would be the best for Caitlyn? Based on the reading I have done, it just didn't seem to fit. I know it's kind of irrelevant right now since she's human and all, but I don't see how Ventrue matches her character concept as it stand right now. 

I don't want to sound like I'm being bitchy, or requiring Kitana to have her character Embraced by Vychtorya - it doesn't really matter to me personally - I am just trying to help find a good transition from a human (with all their passions and preconceptions) to a vampire which is so different from everything they knew.
Vychtorya started play as a human, by the way. Only after a few game sessions of getting to know her Sire did we roleplay the Embrace.

It just doesn't seem right to me to have Jemal be a mini-coterie on his own - that is having too dominant of influence on the game.


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## Festy_Dog

Sorry ppl, it took way too long to get the net working here, i don't think there's any spaces left is there? Anyway i'd probably have to drop out because i've missed out on so much. Sorry for the inconvenience if any was caused.


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## Shalimar

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *And Shalimar - since it seems that your posting this weekend, what is the reference for a human having 21 freebie points, and 6/4/3 attributes, etc
> 
> Shalimar - wouldn't you also have 2 freebie points left?
> I think you counted double on the Willpower score - you started with 4, added 2, but charged yourself 4 for it.
> Just trying to play it right (and in this case, help out).
> 
> P.S. maybe someone could Photoshop in some fangs on Sabrina on that pic you got - that would really be unsettling, seeing so innocent-LOOKING of child, all blonde-and-blue-eyes, but raring back and draining someone...  *




The reference to mortals being 6/4/3 and having 21 freebies comes off the character sheet for mortals, its listed on the bottom of it.

As to the willpower, each point costs two freebies, it says two different costs in the main rulebook, but this is the one Ash went with.



> Freebie Points
> 
> These are points that can be used to buy additional dots in certain aspects of your character. You have 14 of these “freebie” points to spend. See below to determine how many freebie points it costs to raise the level of something.
> 
> Disciplines (Clan): 5 points per dot*
> Disciplines (Non Clan): 7 points per dot*
> Attributes: 5 points per dot
> Abilities: 2 points per dot
> Background: 1 point per dot
> Virtues: 2 points per dot
> Willpower: 2 points per dot
> Humanity: 1 point per dot




As far as the editing in of fangs, It would look awful unsettling on a child, o of course I'll try, I'm jut like that.

Vyc, I don't see Jemal as having a mini-coterie I think that Sabrina is going to be a lot more trouble then she is worth to him (except for the fact he is her brother and you can't shrug that off or put a price tag on it) but your right Caitlyn does seem to be more of a Toreador than anything else, and with her talent for singing(5) its unlikely that she could go for a long period without picking up a would-be Toreador sire.  I mean, their wanting to prserve artists for eternity is even in their description in the book.

I don't think that anyone of us would actually be allowed to Sire anything, so the point is moot.  I mean none of us have been around much longer then half a year.  It takes years to build-up the favors to get the right to sire, and we would still have that new to the game image thing going on.

ps. I am moving back into my dorm today after the semester break, I shouldn't be off-line long, but I might be off for a day or two.


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## Festy_Dog

Hmm, would I be able to get in on this even though I've missed so much? Is there a space left for that matter? 

Don't worry if there isn't any space. 

How would I make my characters history, however I feel or is there anything that needs to be included?

Once again sorry for any inconvenience


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

We have one open space left.

Timothy has yet to send me anything.

So...

The next person to post a character with all of the questions answered here, will be in the group.

See my many previous posts about character creation guidlines.

Monday at midnight is the cut-off. If we don't have another player by then, I'm going ahead with those we have now.

Like I said before, I don't need a filled out character sheet to count you as a player, I am more interested in having those questions answered.


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

Reaper:

You'll need to look at your Willpower again. Indeed that was a typo in the rule book. It should be 2 points per dot. If I where you, I'd put the points in Courage. They cost 1 for 1, and effect your Willpower as well as the ability to resist fear.

Also, I noticed you have the unbondable merit. I'd rather you not have that because you are a Tremere and it would sidestep your clan weakness. In my opinion, clan weaknesses should never be something you can bypass.


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## Festy_Dog

Kewl, I'll try to get a character in right away, but first I gotta sleep.

How does an inquisitive brujah who studies religion sound?


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## KitanaVorr

Whoa

Where do I even begin?

If I had known this would start a huge discussion, well, LOL I'd probaby do the exact same thing!  Anyway....I do agree that Cate does fit much better with the Toreador with her demeanor and talents, I won't deny that.  She could probably just slide right into Toreador without little mental anguish.

But her nature is most definitely Ventrue, and that will come out if she is embraced by a Ventrue.  She doesn't want to admit that she has a bit of the snob in her, but she does.  She was raised in priviledge after all and that's also why I gave her a few points in leadership.  And becoming a Ventrue will further her mental trauma...she doesn't _want_ that part of her coming out.

There's no requirement that Jemal be the one to sire me (jump in _anytime_ buddy) we just thought it would be an interesting story.

However if none of the PC's are old enough to sire, I do have my eye on Valentine.

And of course, the person who sired her doesn't have to sire her because she has enormous talent(this sentance would sound alot funnier if she was a guy).  It could be as basic as, well, he (or she) wants her because she's beautiful and charming.  It doesn't have to be honorable at all.

But I am setting her up to be very formidable after her transformation (as she learns the ways of the game) the likes of which will rival even Enreala or Elentari (Jemal understands this joke).

However it would be interesting to see the contention between an honorable Toreador preserving her for her talent and a Ventrue for er more base reasons. (of course the Ventrue would be getting a hell of alot more than he intended with Caitlyn)

Okay all this chatter boils down to this.  There would be very little conflict with Caitlyn if she went into Toreador because it fits her demeanor so well and is exactly what she would want to be.  HOWEVER if she went into one of the other clans, there would much tension in her acceptance of her transformation which interests me.

ta-da!


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## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle [Home] said:
			
		

> *You'll need to look at your Willpower again. Indeed that was a typo in the rule book. It should be 2 points per dot. If I where you, I'd put the points in Courage. They cost 1 for 1, and effect your Willpower as well as the ability to resist fear.
> 
> Also, I noticed you have the unbondable merit. I'd rather you not have that because you are a Tremere and it would sidestep your clan weakness. In my opinion, clan weaknesses should never be something you can bypass. *



  

Are we all using the same rules?
In my book, it costs 1 freebie point for Willpower, 2 for a Virtue (like Courage). 
(I can't find errata about this online, or on White Wolf's site)
Virtues also max out at 5.
Willpower maxes out at 10.
Without high Willpower, Thaumaturgy is a eunuched Discipline.
uh-oh. this kinda concerns me. I didn't expect to have any rules conflicts...  

[edit] I found on the WW Forums a discussion that mwntioned a confusion over Willpower ebing 1 or 2 points.
The members responded that it was 2 points in 2nd edition, in Revised (and on), it is 1 point. 
Revised came out in 1998. [/edit]


As I understand, most ST's don't like Tremere having the unbondable merit for exactly the reason you mentioned.
I didn't take the merit for dodging the clan weakness, I took it for dodging the problem with Thaumaturgy Discipline (2 of their main powers, at level 2 and 4 both cause them to ridiculously become blood-bonded if they use the power.)  

I have no problem with being blood-bound to the Tremere elders just like every other initiate, does that sound OK then, Ash?

Shalimar (and Ash, i guess)- 
where is the 14 freebie points change taken from?
All books I've read mention 15.
and I was thinking the same thing about us not being able to Sire anyone, since our characters are so new, but Ash mentioned that we could, and also NY is not a Tradition-bound city yet. There are so few vampires for the population, that the limitations on Sireing might be very different than in an older, more intractable, overpopulated city.


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

You see. This is where I get in trouble trying to go from memory when I haven't used this system in forever. Sorry for the confusion.

You are right, Reaper. Virtues do cost 2 freebies each. Just so we are all on the same page, *Willpower will cost 1 freebie* as per the book. I'm thinking this was errated somewhere, but I can't find it, so we want use it.

Freebie point costs are the same as the table on pg 104 with the exception of in clan and out of clan disciplines (my House Rules).

Blood Bonds and Thaumaturgy:

For level 1, you only have to taste the vitae. As long as you don't actually ingest a blood point, I'd say it doesn't count toward blood binding.

As for level 4, well, its is used as another means of feeding. I doubt this would be much of a problem, as it is mainly used on mortals anyway. Just make sure you don't use it on the same vampire 3 times, and you are golden.

And yes, Vampires get 15 freebie points. Mortals get 21.

*Caitlyn*

The only thing I really have to add to this is that I wouldn't worry too much about clan stereotypes. There is nothing at all wrong with a talented singing vantrue or a very political Toreador.

As a matter of fact, one could argue that the Toreador are almost as much involved in politics as Ventrue anyway.

The clans are very similar in my opinion. The only difference is that the stereotypical Ventrue are concerned with leadership and capital gain, while the Toreador are concerned with manipulation and social status.

What I really wanted to say is remember:

Your characters are people first, vampires second, clan members third and sect members last.  If that makes any sense....


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## reapersaurus

OK *whew*
I was really wanting to avoid rules conflicts as much as possible.

Ash - In doing some research just now, I found a wonderfully detailed page that picks up where you left off with creating a human character, then making them a vampire.
It makes SO much sense!
And it seems like a more organic, cool way of doing it, and may be the way all future WoD games do it.

http://www.nocturnis.net/articles/vampire/2001/May/290/page1.html
For ease of reading, I'll paste here, but the original is formatted better







> STAGE ONE: MORTALITY
> 
> ·         Step one: Character Concept - choose Concept, Nature and Demeanor.
> 
> ·         Step two: Attributes - Choose Physical, Social and Mental Traits (6/4/3). Character automatically begins with one dot in each Trait.
> 
> ·         Step three: Abilities - Choose Talents, Skills and Knowledges (11/7/4). No Ability may be raised higher than three dots at this stage.
> 
> ·         Step four: Backgrounds - Choose Backgrounds (3).  The only Backgrounds available at this point are Allies, Contacts, Fame, Influence and Resources.
> 
> ·         Step five: Virtues - Rate your Virtues (7). Character automatically begins with one dot in each.
> 
> ·         Step Six: Details - Record Humanity (equal to Conscience + Self-Control) and Willpower (equal to Courage). Spend freebie points (5).
> 
> STAGE TWO: Being Dead
> 
> ·         Step one: the Embrace - decide on a Clan. Think about your sire, how you came to their attention, and your subsequent embrace.
> 
> ·         Step two: Attributes - Add 2 points to your Attributes, spread as desired.
> 
> ·         Step three: Abilities - Add 5 points to your Attributes.  Traits may be raised higher than three dots at this point.
> 
> ·         Step four: Advantages - Pick Disciplines (3) from those available to your clan. Spend 2 more Background points (the full range is available now). Pick Merits & Flaws (if any).
> 
> ·         Step five: Final Touches - Spend 10 additional freebie points.  Record Generation & Blood Pool.  Note any changes for a Path other than Humanity.



Both Vychtorya and Nikolai started play as humans for a few sessions.
Sabrina was human very recently, and of course Caitlyn is human (I don't know about Jemal).

Ash - could we use this system?
What are your guys' thoughts?


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## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*What are your guys' thoughts? *




Well everyone is human pretty much recently since the earliest we could be embraced was six months ago.

I like it but the only thing I'm not happy with is that the freebie points are pretty low for me as a human and would kind of mess up where I put them to raise her to 5 on a couple of places.  I'd have to rethink how I want her be.

I do want to play Cate as a human for a while before having her be embraced.

I do really like the clan merits that they put in there.  It makes being part of a clan more interesting.

Ash, what are the rules you have for who can sire?


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## Shalimar

Since it has been changed to willpower only costing 1 per point I have 2 extras.  I leave it up to you to decide Ash can I buy the additional dot of generation(brings her to 8th gen, for a total of 7 freebies spent) for 2 points?


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## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *I like it but the only thing I'm not happy with is that the freebie points are pretty low for me as a human and would kind of mess up where I put them to raise her to 5 on a couple of places.  I'd have to rethink how I want her be.*



Ya, a human gets less freebie points (and all I can conclude is that the character sheet that listed 21 freebie points for humans is a typo), but the cool thing (for Caitlyn) about this system is that when you become a vampire, you will get 2 more attributes, so you don't need to spend those 10 expensive freebie points on upping your Appearance.

For all of us, I think it grants the same # of points, but it gives us more flexibility as to where we put them.
And as you mentioned, the unique clan benefits adds flavor, and distinctiveness to the process, while not really affecting much power-wise or anything.


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## reapersaurus

Ashrem - I've been thinking, and when reading between the lines, are you (effectively) hinting that I probably shouldn't spend the Discipline points on 4 and 5 level Thaumaturgy, Path of Blood, since we're not going to be fighting vampires in this Chronicle?
I could easily put them in my next two choices, Auspex 1 and 2 (looking towards Auspex 4).

While I do want to honor the character concept of Nikolai (him being able to defend himself), I don't want to spend a majority of the points for this Chronicle on something that likely will not come into play.
(_part_ of the fun of the game for me is being able to use the kewl powerz that vampires get, at least once)


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## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

Well, let me say that you MIGHT fight vampires. It depends on what you do. I have pretty clear cut notes on my NPCs and if you do something to make one attack you, he will. Vampires are usually very respectful, even with their enemies, because you never know when one might frenzy.

Like I said before, I don't have a plot all thought out. If you do something to put yourself in a situation where another vampire feels that physical confrontation is the way to go, then well....thats where it will go.

That said, the vast majority of combat will probably be with humans (your prey, police etc.)

Reaper:

Cauldron of Blood is ESPECIALLY good against humans. And remember, no vampire want to fight an opponent capable of aggravated damage. Level 4 is also very good against humans.

If you want to be powerful in combat in this game, I would keep levels 4 and 5. However, don't forget about Auspex and especially Dominate. Both are very nice.

Its just a matter of what you want really. I don't think any combination would be bad.


Mortal to Vampire:

Don't worry about this just yet. Mortal characters should be built per the mortal rules, vampires per the vampire rules. While I like that system posted earlier, I don't want to create any confusion. I'll deal with the Embrace when the time comes.


Shali:

Sorry. 9th gen is the max. There havn't been any 7th generation vampires in NYC in a long time. At least, none giving the Embrace.


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## Shalimar

Just figured I'd ask.  I'll just take the sanctity merit from the Sabbat Guide if thats ok.


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## KitanaVorr

ahh so much planning  can't we just roleplay and see where it leads us?


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## Shalimar

I agree with Kit, lets get going


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## KitanaVorr

Hey we can always start me off as the entertainment to one of Vych's parties, eh?  I'll be the background  music to the chatter, LOL


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## Shalimar

And  I'll be the one asking for singing lessons   or maybe just asking for a presant.


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## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *And  I'll be the one asking for singing lessons   or maybe just asking for a presant. *




You know that is a good way for you and me to know each other.  After the party Nathan hires me to give you some singing lessons.

LOL


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## reapersaurus

I predict that there will be such a preponderance of roleplay VERY soon, and almost no way to bring rules into it once we start, that this is about the only time we'll have to discuss V:tM rules.

It's definately the system that's known for serious roleplay, and in an online game, it should be very story-driven.

Ash - I guess I'll go with Auspex then,
And replace the Unbondable merit with something else, and I'll try to get some equipment listed (he IS a former vampire hunter, so his favored gun and armor would be with him) as well as finish the Q&A (Vych is already done that) and I'll continue the online story to get up to the time of his Embrace...

I like to do justice to characters I like...


----------



## KitanaVorr

Is that it?

Are we the cast?  We've got 5 people and that sounds good to me.  Other people can always be added along the way, right?


----------



## Shalimar

I don't know if Sabrina is exactly safe to be around yet, she's been kindred only a couple of days, and since her first feeding hasn't fed yet.  She will need some food and soon or she might frenzy.  Even if she gets it soon, she will need supervision.  I geuss its up to Ash as to when Nathan will feed her for the first couple of months.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I don't know if Sabrina is exactly safe to be around yet, she's been kindred only a couple of days, and since her first feeding hasn't fed yet.  She will need some food and soon or she might frenzy.  Even if she gets it soon, she will need supervision.  I geuss its up to Ash as to when Nathan will feed her for the first couple of months. *




Hmm, who knows?  Maybe they just hit it off and Nathan thinks that Cate might help Sabrina adjust better because everyone else is so busy?

Pre-Embrace Cate is actually very sweet, innocent, almost child-like in some things, her wonder about the world, her spontaneity and carefree attitude.

hehe voice teacher for a vampire child, that's gotta be interesting...


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *hehe voice teacher for a vampire child, that's gotta be interesting... *



well, like the piano teacher in _Interview With a Vampire_, you'd best not be a disciplinarian...


----------



## Festy_Dog

The questionaire won't take much longer  I'll finish it once my brother's done with the computer. Then I can get on with doing stats and stuff. How many points do we have to put into those vampiric abilities, like Dominate and stuff?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *The questionaire won't take much longer  I'll finish it once my brother's done with the computer. Then I can get on with doing stats and stuff. How many points do we have to put into those vampiric abilities, like Dominate and stuff? *




I think if you go to page 2, Ash lists how to create a vampire and all the points.  There's also a vamp character sheet there somewhere.


----------



## Festy_Dog

Kewl thx


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Yea. Everything you need is a few pages back.

I'll try to get a little more info about NYC up soon.


----------



## Shalimar

The sanctity merit for those who don't know represents a certain indescribable saintlyness.  People see you as harmless, innocent (though not neccesarily naive), trustworthy, and generally like you.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Sanctity is fine Shalimar.

Are there any specific questions any of you would like to ask about NYC?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Sanctity is fine Shalimar.
> 
> Are there any specific questions any of you would like to ask about NYC? *





Well I live in NY and I've been to NYC.  I just want to know what the difference will be in your world.  I don't have the New York by Night thing, if its a book or module or something.

Also, the question of siring I asked earlier?  Are any of the PC's allowed to sire?  Or should I choose an NPC?  If I have to choose an NPC, I'd like Valentine please with a scoop of whipped cream.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I don't have a problem with PC embracing. Of course, the PC in question will need to have permission.

If he/she does it without permission, they risk having their childe destroyed and maybe themselves.

As far as the difference between the real NYC and the World of Darkness NYC, the only difference is the Vampires, Werewolves, Wraiths etc.

The World of Drakness is identicle to our world, only a little bit darker and scarier.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Then my only question is...when does the fun start?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I'll most likely make my first in game post tomarrow around lunch (Central Standard) or so. It kinda depends on my work load, but it will be tomarrow sometime.


----------



## Festy_Dog

*Maxwell Freigart (finally)*

My updated and edited character is in the rogues' gallery.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Looking good Festy. I'm glad you made it in. If you would, please post your character over in the Rogues Gallery and add a picture of Maxwell.

Sorry Timothy, as of Festy's character, we are at our limit.

As I said earlier, our first IC post should be up tomarrow.

If you have any specific questions, now is the time to ask.


----------



## Shalimar

How relaxed are the rules for the embrace considering that NYC is  going to be a war city, and defenders against the Sabbat are needed?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I don't know if Sabrina is exactly safe to be around yet, she's been kindred only a couple of days, and since her first feeding hasn't fed yet.  She will need some food and soon or she might frenzy.  Even if she gets it soon, she will need supervision.  I geuss its up to Ash as to when Nathan will feed her for the first couple of months. *




Maybe music can soothe the savage beast?  And if that's still worrisome I suppose Jemal or Nathan can babysit to make sure Cate doesn't become food....


----------



## Jemal

"I would definately not mind the excuse to spend time with such a lovely lady." *smacking lips* "Althought I'm not sure I could garauntee safety either...." 

So when's this supposed to start, anyways?


----------



## Shalimar

Why would they care, about you being food I mean, thats all kine are for, well that and any services they can be performed.  They probably wouldn't let me munch on someone important.  Until I have much more control ( a couple of months at least if ever),  I wont be able to stop myself from drinking someone dry as I wouldn't stop til being full.  I can hold more blood then a human, so me being full would take two since she would try to put off feeding as much as possible, or she might feed as soon as she felt the tiniest bit of thirst, not sure yet.


----------



## Jemal

Maybe she'll feed when uncle and big brother tell her to?  NAH, she doesn't strike me as the kind of vamp who does what she's told.


----------



## KitanaVorr

LOL

what? I'm food to the first vamp to try and eat me?

*sigh* I feel so objectified...


----------



## Jemal

Of course you are! As long as that vamp is me. .

By the way, while you're sitll alive - Do you think you'ld go better with a red or white wine?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Jemal said:
			
		

> *Of course you are! As long as that vamp is me. .
> 
> By the way, while you're sitll alive - Do you think you'ld go better with a red or white wine? *




Hmm...well I think I will go better with champagne....


----------



## Shalimar

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *LOL
> 
> what? I'm food to the first vamp to try and eat me?
> 
> *sigh* I feel so objectified... *




Now you get the idea  no, Sabrina's not really in the running to embrace you.  She doesn't know how, and no one in their right mind would let a child be responsible for a new vampire.  I forsee a long period of being in Nathan's care, at least a few years, unless he finnegles Calebros into foisting her off on Jemal, and to do that Jemal would have to be officially presented first (not sure if he has been).  Its doubtful Sabrina would be oficially presented for at least a decade though she may be officially recognized(ie. let people know  who she is so no one offs her)  if not released from him.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Hmmm ;p

Cate the Tasty Vamp Treat...Low calories, lots of crunch.

_
Cate Cate, the Vampy Treat
Tons of blood for vamps to eat
Take one bite
You'll stay the night
Red or White, she can't be beat!
_

yes...I know I am a very weird person... but I like to think that I am a cute weird not a OH GOD RUN AWAY AND  HIDE THE MONSTER IS COMING kind of weird...well...okay...maybe both...


----------



## Shalimar

definitely cute weird


----------



## Timothy

Am I still in?

I could have my character done by wednesday.


----------



## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Looking good Festy. I'm glad you made it in. If you would, please post your character over in the Rogues Gallery and add a picture of Maxwell.
> 
> Sorry Timothy, as of Festy's character, we are at our limit.
> 
> As I said earlier, our first IC post should be up tomarrow.*



Tim - Ashrem posted this last page - did you get time to read the thread?

Jemal - I was reading the Guide to the Camarilla, and saw a Merit you might be interested in: 
Computer Aptitude (2 points) "Other Kindred may not understand computers, but to you they are intuitive. All rolls involving computers are at a -2 difficulty for you."

Shalimar - there's the Precocious merit, which SOUNDS like Sabrina, if it doesn't fit her:
3 points Merit: "You learn quickly; the time and experience cost for an Ability (or Abilities, ST discretion) is cut in half. "
Also, there's the Harmless Merit (1 point) : "Everyone in the city knows you, and knows you aren't a threat to their plans. It may seem insulting, but it's what's kept you from getting killed."

Ashrem - I'm asking for Vych (cause I don't wanna log off and log back in  ) - there's a Bound flaw (2 points) when you are blood bound to another vampire.
It seems strange to me that you'd get 2 points for something she voluntarily put in her backstory, but it doesn;t hurt to ask, and if you prefer that Flaw over any of the other ones she chose to match her character, than let her know.

And to confirm: do you think it might be OK for her to take the Vampire Spouse Merit later in the game?
Her Sire, Carrick, has not gone that far yet (he's currently drunk twice of Vych - he's waiting a bit to make sure she'll make the Transition fully), but marriage is what Vych had planned for their relationship.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Timothy said:
			
		

> *Am I still in?
> 
> I could have my character done by wednesday. *




Perhaps you should 

1. finish your Hellmouth character before you do anything else so you don't hold up that game.

2. Post in the games you ARE in so you don't hold them up either


----------



## Festy_Dog

Umm, err, how do I put a picture into a post?

I've got one, I just don't know how to add them.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Umm, err, how do I put a picture into a post?
> 
> I've got one, I just don't know how to add them. *




First you have to upload it onto the web, then you press the IMG button on top and type in the web address for the picture.

ta-da!

Don't forget to resize or crop if necessary!


----------



## Festy_Dog

Kewl thx , but how do I upload something to the net?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Festy -> When you post, you also have the option to attach a file. If the file is a picture, the pic will show up in the post.

Timothy -> Sorry bud.  

Vych -> You can have the two points for the flaw. As far as the spous merit, don't worry about it. I see merits as things that you can buy for your character during creation. Anything you get after character creation is just something you have. You don't have to pay for it with experience or anything.

KitanaVorr = Cute Weird  


I hope to have the first IC post up today.

*Question:* Would you rather tell me where your character is when the game begins, or would you like me to place everyone myself?


----------



## Shalimar

Reap, sanctity is a two point merit which includes that, though if Ash is going to put on the blood-bond from Nathan that is some more points for merits like harmless, don't need it though

Ash, I think it best that you place me at the very least, as Sabrina doesn't have much control of her circumstances.


----------



## Festy_Dog

Ashrem, I don't mind being placed, sounds good to me 

Kitana, just an idea, do you think it'd be interesting if my character lived in an apartment next to or nearby yours?

Edit: Woohoo! It worked, my char has a pic! Thx ppl!


----------



## Jemal

Ash - Place me wherever you want.  I'ld think, however that my character would either be with Nathan and/or Sabrina, or out prowling.
Oh yes, and I'll be adding that Computer Intuitive merit b/c it fits in perfectly with my char.  Will rearange asap.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Kitana, just an idea, do you think it'd be interesting if my character lived in an apartment next to or nearby yours?
> *




Sure, I don't mind.  I live in a building on the edge of central park, its expensive so I share an extremely TINY flat with my roommate.  But I got it for the view from the rooftop and the atmosphere to write my music.

As for placing me, go for it.  Depending on the time of day I will be in different locations so pick away whichever one fits your thing most or make up one that fits the idea

During the Day:

1> practicing with my rock band "Kindred Knights"
2> writing music on the roof of my tenement building 
3> getting some much need sleep in prep for the night
4> giving music lessons for extra cash
5> hanging out with my roomie

During the night:

working ;p of course

1> at a jazz club
2> playing a party
3> playing at a rock club with my band
4> practicing music on the roof ;p


----------



## KitanaVorr

Just a thought

Owning a car in New York is insanely expensive and usually not worth it b/c most people take the taxi, ride on the subway or rent a car or have a limo.  Most people who live in New York City (specifically the more heavily populated areas like Manhattan) rarely actually leave the city by car other than to fly somewhere by plane.

The reason its expensive is there aren't a whole lot of places to park a car in NYC.  Garages run at least 40 bucks a _night_ and trying to find a legal parking spot for your car on the street is a nightmare that boggles the mind and leaves it at high risk for being stolen.

Besides you don't use a car in New York City if you live there, usually the cars you see there are from those darned rich people  or people who commute in.

I'm talking specifically about Manhattan as I've never really been anywhere outside of that part of New York City.  But feel free to correct me if you know different!

EDIT: i should add that since alot of the population doesn't need to know how to drive b/c they dont have cars, they don't have driver's license either, just NY State ID cards.


----------



## KitanaVorr

blah I know I'm being a total nitpicking psychotic, but I can't stop myself.

Festy, how do you afford living in a manhattan apartment on the edge of central park by yourself with only a resource of 1? I have a tiny apartment, a roommate, and a resource of 2. Those apartments can run abuot 3 to 5 thousand a month depending on size and location.  Does your sire live with you?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I have a document in zip form that I need to give out to everyone.

I need either someone to host it for me, or you can let me know what email address I should send it to.

The file size is 533kb. It is a zipped PDF file describing the city and its inhabitants a bit.


----------



## Shalimar

marik@maxgaming.net


----------



## Shalimar

File received.


----------



## reapersaurus

Ash -  I have New York by Night, but have purposely only read about 5% of it (I read in a review that there were 4 Tremere rituals strangely contained within - what a strange tome which to put ancient rituals of power) 

Should I read more, to get familiar with the City and peoples, or do you want me NOT to read it, and rely on your zip file and in-game info?

For Nikolai, I'd think he'd be in one of the 5 Chanceries of New York, it is totally up to you to choose which one he'd be affiliated with.
I'm interested in him having a little communication and dealings with the sheriff, since that's one of the ways he can practice his powers and the most likely lead for finding The Barbed Heart in NY.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

The only thing I request you not read is the writeups on the NPCs.

I'm mainly using the book for ideas, so anything you read is subject to change.

If you would, go ahead and read up on the Trmere and let me know which one your character belongs to.


----------



## Shalimar

The zip file is put together very well Ash, I take it you did the write-ups on our Sire's?  I must say very good choices on the pictures to represent them.  I have a few questions though.

1)How does my embrace fit in with Calebros's moratorium on such actions.  Am I on Qadir's hit list? or am I ok because I am considered harmless by everyone?

2)Would Nathan be on the hit-list or was he embraced prior to the Sabbat's loss of the city?  If it was before the Sabbat left wouldn't Nathan have been acting pretty much as a Prince and want the position back?

3)How will Kitana become one of us with no emraces allowed?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Thanks!

1. You where embraced under special circumstances. A few favors where called in and you where allowed to live.

2. Very good questions. A few other vampires are wondering the same thing. How did Nathan manage to remain unmolested in a Sabbat controlled city? The reason Nathan isn't already Prince is because the Camarilla appointed Calebros without consulting anyone. Nathan may very well use his past as a reason why he should be the Prince. However, To everyones surprise, he hasn't yet done so. Many want to know why.

3. Good question. We will just have to see.


----------



## Shalimar

Oops, I actually meant was Jemal embraced before the edict went out, just said the wrong name.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Oops, I actually meant was Jemal embraced before the edict went out, just said the wrong name. *




Yep. Jemal just sqeaked in.


----------



## Timothy

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Perhaps you should
> 
> 1. finish your Hellmouth character before you do anything else so you don't hold up that game.
> 
> 2. Post in the games you ARE in so you don't hold them up either
> 
> *




I will follow your immense wisdom Kitana!


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *3)How will Kitana become one of us with no emraces allowed? *




The question isn't just that...its how Cate will survive long enough to get embraced...I mean Jemal's already picking out the wine ....Cate the Tasty Vampire Treat....in a city of millions  why does she have to be fooooooood? hehe

Really you don't want me for food!  I'm kinda stringy and squishy.  And you'll probably get that nasty perfumey taste afterwards from the stuff I spray on my skin.  Nooooo you don't want ME for food...you want my roommate...yeah...and she's latino so she's much yummier than skinny asian girls...that's it....then I can have a rent-controlled apartment all to myself...


----------



## Shalimar

Ash, An idea for the start of the game to introduce us all to each other since we do not know each other in the slightest and would help Calebros get a handle on the real number of NYC kindred would be to call All Kindred and their ghouls to an Elysium and have them present themselves.  Those that do not follow the prince's decree must be Sabbat or at the very least a threat to the Camirilla presance in the city.

It would Give the Sheriff, Scourge, and Prince an idea of what they have to work with, and let Calebros pass out his laws.  Not to mention the fact that it would tell the other kindred who was on which side so accidents can be avoided.  The City's kindred must be in chaos I mean who knows who is where, with who, and in which Sect?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Shali -> Shush! Your ideas are hitting to close to home and if you say much more people will think I'm ripping you off!


----------



## Shalimar

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Shali -> Shush! Your ideas are hitting to close to home and if you say much more people will think I'm ripping you off!  *




Great minds think alike Ashy-poo besides, I have to do all my really bright thinking ooc, Sabrina's way too easily distracted to plan anything


----------



## reapersaurus

I'll read up.
I'm still working on the Q&A.
If you want to send the zip file to me and Vych, use the address in her profile...

Sires:
I can find the link to more info about Vych's Sire, Carrick.
http://tech.nhsacramento.com/rmiller/Vampire/CARRICK.HTM

Here's a bit of info on what WAS Nikolai's Sire, Mikhail (but if you want someone different, feel free, please! We didn't go very far with it, but I'll detail what happened in the Q&A)
http://tech.nhsacramento.com/rmiller/Vampire/MIKHAIL.HTM


----------



## Shalimar

I forwarded the file to you and your wife Reapersaurus.  Its really good.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Oops. Looks like you guys have two coming.

Thanks again for the high praise.

Just call me Ashy-Poo the great!

Now the bad news. I had hoped to get my first IC post up today, but that is starting to look unlikely as the work just keeps pouring in and I can't seem to find much free time.

*sigh* I feel like I'm running in circles.

You'll see something tomorrow for sure though. I hate it when real life happens.


----------



## KitanaVorr

QUOTE]_Originally posted by Ashrem Bayle _
*I have a document in zip form that I need to give out to everyone.

I need either someone to host it for me, or you can let me know what email address I should send it to.

The file size is 533kb. It is a zipped PDF file describing the city and its inhabitants a bit. *[/QUOTE]

I can host it for you if you like.

My email address is KitanaVorr@aol.com to send the zip file and if anyone as AOL Instant Message, that's also a good want to talk to me if you need to discuss something in depth or just send me an email with the heading V:tM (or I will delete it cuz I always delete unfamiliar email addresses without reading the email)


----------



## reapersaurus

i got the file. Thanks - I'll read it and Vych will too, I'm sure.
She read the whole Toreador clanbook last night while our son was up till 5 AM. 

Hey, I gotta ask - Shalimar, you're female, right?
The name on the account sounded male, is all.


----------



## Shalimar

yes I am, The name is fictional, from the battletech universe actually, and I also share the account.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *yes I am, The name is fictional, from the battletech universe actually, and I also share the account. *




Oh yea! This is the first time I've ever played a game on the boards with two other women, well who I know are actually women....tee hee 

I think this is my first time playing on the boards with ANY other woman...sheesh...


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I've been playing with Shali for about a year now on the Wheel of Time game. I enjoy her company. 

We have a great group over there, and it looks like a nice one shaping up here too.


----------



## Wippit Guud

Hmm... 6 pages... is it too late to join?
I'm not in any games that have started yet (and only one that has), so my schedule is farily free.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Sorry Wippit. We just hit our limit.

Too bad.  

I wish I had more time. I'd like to run a Sabbat game too.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

UPDATE

Once I get Reaper's Q&A, and get his sire in the handout, I will be able to post soon after.


----------



## Wippit Guud

Bummer...

I'm banned from playing Malkies in face-face games, everyone keeps breaking character at my antics... oh well


----------



## Festy_Dog

Kitana, Max's rent mystery is solved.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Here's the link to the PDF that Ash would llike everyone to look through.

New York by Night


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Thanks Kitana!


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Festy_Dog _*Kitana, Max's rent mystery is solved.  *




LOL!  A ghoul for a landlord...now that would explain alot of things in the city....


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

That brings up a few good points.

New question everyone needs to add to their Q&A:

*Where is your haven? What is it like?*


----------



## Shalimar

My Haven is the suite of rooms that I lived in while I was still alive(now that they have been sun-proofed) on the top 4 floors of the Hotel that are reserved for the family. It is a 4 room suite with three rooms branching off of a central sitting room.  One room holding her toys and books, another is a bathroom , And the last is her bedroom.  Each of the rooms is spacious enough to swallow three college dorm rooms, and decorated in a very upscale glam manner by her mother who is the one who runs the Hotel.

Her rooms are next to the ones Jemal lived in before his embrace.  She used to sneak into his room if she had nightmares.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Caitlyn's Home

Old fashioned tenement building with many stories and a doorman.  The view of central park and the city is absolutely glorious from the roof where Caitlyn has gotten permission from her landlord or landlady to set up a temporary space of her own to write/practice her music.  Her room itself is a very tiny one.  Two bedrooms and one main living room, she has the smaller one while Lisa has the larger one b/c she pays the larger share of the rent.  It has a windows to the outside but not a view to central park but the building across and the alleyway/fire escape so its cheaper apartment.  Sometimes she likes to sit on the firescape just outside her window and play her guitar while she stares up at the sky wishing she could see the stars through the haze of the city's lights.


----------



## Shalimar

I do have 1 question, if we are all going to be called to an organizational meeting of The Camarilla Kindred how will Kit get involved? it wouldn't be exactly fair to leave her out for the first bit.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I do have 1 question, if we are all going to be called to an organizational meeting of The Camarilla Kindred how will Kit get involved? it wouldn't be exactly fair to leave her out for the first bit. *




That's a good question =P I vote Cate not being an hors d'oeuvres for the gathering.  I don't mind being an hors d'oeuvre but not _that_ kind...hehe


----------



## Shalimar

I agree, lets not eat her.  Maybe just a few sips instead?


----------



## Festy_Dog

*Where is your haven? What is it like?:*

Though Max's apartment is only opposite Caitlyn's it is much more expensive because it has a view of central park and a total of 5 rooms, this would be impossible to afford were it not free thanks to the landlord being one of his sire's ghouls. He has very heavy curtains in all rooms which are left shut, only the office ones get opened occasionally when he's there on a night off work. There are two bedrooms, the one without a window is his while the other has been converted into a small library. Two large bookcases are placed side by side in front of the window in the second bedroom even though there's already a curtain there. There is an office in which he does all his research. Contained within is all matter of stationary equipment and a powerful computer which he had saved up for and bought before being embraced, it is primarily used for research and has a scanner for documents, gamimg comes a close second in its uses.

btw: for a reason for Cate to be there. though it is a gathering to see who's who and how many in NY, it could have a kind of party appearance to it, she could have been the entertainment hired while what was really supposed to happen went on in whispers around her, and she could be used in a snack kind of fashion instead of a meal.


----------



## reapersaurus

whew!
finally got the Q&A done, and bio and stats updated.

Nikolai's haven would be in Aisling's Chantry of the Five Burroughs, if that's OK.

Ash - I made some guesses, and creative leaps with Nik's history, and why he came to NY - hope it's OK, let me know if anything's wrong (being in Aisling's Chantry, working with TPTB, checking out the Sheriff's work...)

edit: I think your pdf idea is awesome.
Could you change the entry for The HeartBreaker (I used that name in my Q&A) to make him a legendary Fallen Toreador?
and Vych has some pics coming your way.


----------



## Festy_Dog

Just read the .pdf, its very kewl 

One problem though Ash, with the .pdf, its my fault for not making it clear but my character is Brujah whereas in the .pdf Morgan is Toreador. Sorry about any trouble this may cause.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ash, I know you're probably getting sick of hearing this, but when do you think we can start?


----------



## Shalimar

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Ash, I know you're probably getting sick of hearing this, but when do you think we can start?  *




seconded


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I know you are getting impatient guys, and I can understand.

I do all my posting from here at work and the last few days has been really hectic. 

Just so you know:

Now that I have everyone's info, I'm going to send a new PDF for Kitana to host for me. This one will have a few corrections and added info.

After that, I'll be able to post the first IC thread. 

Don't worry about Cate, she will be there.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Don't worry about Cate, she will be there. *




ACK!  just not as food....

Sure thing, but I won't be home to access my aol account until after work.  I understand about hectic work though.  Next week will be really bad for me and I won't be able to post alot.  Two meetings, 3-day work seminar, start 2 graduate classes....  ick


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

First IC post is up. Enjoy!


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *First IC post is up. Enjoy! *




I have a question.  What kind of music DID Valentine want the Kindred Knights to play?  They usually play punk/rock/metal music.

EDIT:

BTW!  Love the post...now let's hope my band won't get eaten! hehe


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

You should be safe. Feeding is prohibited in Elysium.

Valentine just requested anything soft and with a dark touch.


----------



## Shalimar

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *You should be safe. Feeding is prohibited in Elysium.
> 
> Valentine just requested anything soft and with a dark touch. *




That is so going to clash with Sabrina's not having a concept of the word 'no' when it applies to her.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I got your email Reaper. I hope to be able to respond soon.

Just so everyone knows, all further emails to me should go to:

mikekris@hiwaay.net

That is my home account. I hate to use the work account for personal use too much.

Don't hesitate to email me with anything you feel is relevent.

Put "Vampire" or something similare in the subject line so that you don't get erased and blocked along with all the spam I get.


----------



## KitanaVorr

hehe can't wait to get home to fire off my first post
trying to decide on a good song at the moment
are they already playing music? or are they about to play? or should they wait for something?


----------



## Shalimar

I can't wait for the music either  at least one person is gonna have a goodtime.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *hehe can't wait to get home to fire off my first post
> trying to decide on a good song at the moment
> are they already playing music? or are they about to play? or should they wait for something? *




They are setting up now. They can play whenever they are ready.


----------



## Vychtorya

I edited the info about Vych and Carrick's haven. They will reside above the club until they become more familar with NY.
*Where is your haven? What is it like? *

Carrick had contacted Thomas Arturo months before he and Vych left for NYC. Carrick wanted Thomas to build or find the right place for a night club that would also be able to support a secured upstairs apartment. The club is open until dawn daily, and sometimes Carrick and/or Vych need a place to crash. 

The club has a dance floor on the main level and the second level has semi-private booth type tables with an open air middle looking down on the dance floor. There are 2 bars (one on each floor) and the music venue changes daily. The club also hosts live concerts and local bands. There is private, secured parking located under the club for employees and special guests. 

The apartment above the club on the third level is accessed via a private, somewhat hidden staircase and elevator. It has a living room with a wet bar, small dance floor, Carrick's office, 3 bedrooms with their own private bath suites, a kitchen and dining area that seats 12. The decor is elegant with all black furniture. There are old swords of various styles mounted on the burgundy and gold sueded walls around the living room with two human sized green/white marble sculptures on either side of the bar. Carrick has a fascination/obsession with ancient swords and sculpture of the human form. 

Ash, since I am not very familar with the layout of NYC, please place the club/temporary haven where you feel it would be best for the story. Thanks


----------



## KitanaVorr

I would think that a really expansive mansion would work outside of the City itself if you want to take that much space.  Also, I don't think there are redwoods in New York.  I'd say the most expensive and popular place is in The Hamptons.  Or you can buy an old glorious victorian brownstone.

The club could be anywhere, the particular popular spots would be the village or soho(more arty).  I'm not sure either.  Or you can get super trendy and have in one of those old warehouse districts that have been converted into know uptown lofts and hangouts.

Just remember that everything grows upward (more floors) in new york not outward (more land).


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

One problem:

If the club serves mortal blood, Calebros will see it as a breach of the masquerade. Something like that is way to easy to be discovered.

How is the blood obtained?

Another problem is having a gathering place for vampires that hasn't been declared Elysium. If a fight breaks out, things could get real bad real fast.

Perhaps one of your goals could be to have it declared? Controlling an Elysium is a sure way to gain status.


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Just remember that everything grows upward (more floors) in new york not outward (more land). *



So I will try to think more on the lines of San Francisco then. Thanks Kit! 

As far as redwoods, I know NY has some pine trees, so any needled evergreen tree would work.

Ash - for story telling, would it be better for them to live inside the city? 

Thank you to everyone for their help. I've roleplayed V:tm before as well as other systems, but I have never played on line. So this is all new to me. Thanks for your patience. 

edit: i edited the Haven info a few posts above^^^^


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

This is my first game to _run_ online. I'm begging for patience as well.

Living outside the city is fine Vych. Whatever you want.


----------



## KitanaVorr

=P

post post!  now that we finally got the thread up, where's everyone?

EDIT:  She's not doing much really while you guys mingle, I'm just going to have her observe while she sings, so I'm looking for things to observe from a human point of view.


----------



## KitanaVorr

;p I"m being so totally annoying today cuz I'm home from work and very bored and my friends are at work...damn them! hehe


----------



## Shalimar

I know what you mean Kit, I feel much the same way  

Sabrina is kinda dependent on everyone else at the moment, so I can't really do anything, though she just might start dancing to your song if its danceible enough, and Jemal or Nathan tell her she can get a drink later(she still is shaky on this whole kindrid thing, she doesn't know she has to drink blood, or know how to use any of her disciplines.)


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Shali->

Nathan simply hasn't answered you. He has been going into fits of depression and rage since your embrace and right now he just sits quietly.

I was waiting for Jemal's response.

Where is everyone?


----------



## Shalimar

Totally understandable Ash, I would be pretty pissy if my neice was kidnapped and embraced because of me as well.


----------



## Shalimar

Um, it might be a good idea for Nathan or Jemal to forbid the party, as a sleepover party with a vampire and a bunch of mortals might not be a good idea, and will almost certainly be a breach of the Masquerade, I mean what will she say about the fact that she can't be in the sunlight and wont be able to wake up the next day?


----------



## KitanaVorr

lol I guess Jemal isn't thinking clearly eh?

Oh this song's lyric is perfect for the party of vampires...LOL  I've got plenty more on the way and they get more and more fun.


----------



## Shalimar

Maybe its your beauty thats got his mind wandering, you are right up his alley.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Maybe its your beauty thats got his mind wandering, you are right up his alley. *




LOL yeah that is soooo comforting..."yay the vamp notices me"  Cate as Jemal's dessert...albeit in a more blood thirsty and not quite so romantic way is not the most comforting of thoughts, eh?


----------



## Shalimar

I can see how it wouldn't be, at least no one is going to munch on you tonight.  Day to day, the only way to live.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> LOL yeah that is soooo comforting..."yay the vamp notices me"  Cate as Jemal's dessert...albeit in a more blood thirsty and not quite so romantic way is not the most comforting of thoughts, eh? *




Good lord... 5 successes.  

You have about as much chance as a "all you can eat" buffet it a fat farm.  

Just kidding.  

Remember all, this is the weekend coming up so you aren't likely to get another good update until Monday. I'm sure I'll check in some, but don't expect much after today.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Good lord... 5 successes.
> 
> You have about as much chance as a "all you can eat" buffet it a fat farm.
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> Remember all, this is the weekend coming up so you aren't likely to get another good update until Monday. I'm sure I'll check in some, but don't expect much after today. *




Hey while you're here could you explain for me why you did different number of rolls for each thing?  And how you do them? 

EDIT:

ok ok  "kit you pick up the dice and then throw it and a number will be on top"  hehe its bad when you think of a smart aleck reply to your own comments...


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

hehe 

Its kinda like D20 a little. You add your dots in one attribute to your dots in an asscociated ability if there is one. Take the total and that equels your dice pool. I then set a difficulty (same as DC in d20). The default difficulty for most actions is 6. So you then roll all the dice in your pool and count however many go over 6. This is your number of successes. 

Usually:
1 success means you barely accomplished what you attempted.
2 means you did it well
3 means you did it better than expected
4 means you did it really, really well. Much better than you needed to.
5 is simply astounding. you did it as well as it can be done.
etc.
etc.

Example:

I needed to see how well your performance is going.

You have 5 dots in performance and I decided to use Charisma (4 dots) since I figure that shows better on stage than simple Appearance.

So.. 5+4 = 9 dice in your pool. That is a lot! I rolled against the default difficulty of 6 and you got 4 successes. It is an awesome performance by anyone's standards. 

Your Appearance check was really remarkable. You had five dice in your pool and got 5 successes against a difficulty of 6. You are now a lightning rod of attention.

That make sense?


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Ashrem Bayle _*You are now a lightning rod of attention. *




Ohmigod...the innuendos I could do from that...but yep!  I get it now =) yay more knowledge for me...now where to put it in my overstuffed brain, I dunno!

edit:

ahh my mommy always taught me to be polite but I never remember.

Thank you ash!


----------



## reapersaurus

finally got Nik's actions up.

I'm guessing this PbP will be a bit more player-controlled than other one's I've been in.
Is that right, Ash?
You're running it where we kind of control the action a bit, and the story being more collaborative, instead of the DM running everything except our PC's actions?

If so, please stop me if I do anything or guess something that doesn't match your idea of the Chronicle.
I apologize in advance if I guess something wrong - I've never run an interactive-story game, where the players have a say in the world.

As you noticed, I had Nikolai's Sire not there - it didn't make sense that he'd be in NY- Nik was the one that volunteered to go to the Big Apple, with all the uproar and change going on there.
He checked in with Aislin and would be staying at the Chantry, right?
So he's pretty much on his own here, other than the not-insignificant relations with his Clan.

Also, I think i remembered you mentioning something about no Disciplines being used at Elysium? 
I looked it up, and there's no VIOLENCE at Elysium.
Vamps use Disciplines all the time - it would be like telling a wolf to "turn off" its sense of smell.

edit: If you didn't mention that about Disciplines, than ignore the above.

edit #2 : Damn, you posted in-character before reading this post, apparently.  
Now it's kind of hard to change what Qadir said...


----------



## reapersaurus

I'm going to do as my nature pushes me to, and rabble things up a bit by asking questions of other players about their characters, to help me (and hopefully others) better understand the game we're spending our free time on.

Kitana - I'm kind of confused about your character currently.
(All of this is IMO, and take the observations or ignore tham at your leaisure)
You are playing her as 2 sides of a very disparate coin: the wide-eyed, good-hearted struggling artist who wants to prove to her parents that her artistic talents are good and she can make her way in the world on talent alone.

This is opposed by her posh, priveledged background, with snobbish influences, her ability to handle medical schoool, land a scholarship, and her incredibly high stats.

The confusion I'm having is how the heck can someone with everything going for her (money, priveledge, beauty, absurd talent for a human (one in several million)) would be a _struggling artist who is not sure of her abilities, and hasn't been already found by the record companies and made their next polished, produced star?_

If she could overwhelm a roomful of the most powerful vampires in all of New York, I'm fairly confident she would have a record contract and be selling CD's and merchandise by the truckload.

That's basically what I've been struggling with as a reader, is making sense of Caitlyn's situation.
I know that if _I_ had that much going for me in life, I'd hunt down and kill any damned bloodsucker that wanted to take that human life away from me.
Humans that have everything they want usually wouldn't be willing to give it away with the Embrace.

Hope these observations help and might nail down some aspects of your character for us - 
lastly, i don't get the "soft punk rock" music.
That is a sonic impossibility. LOL

If I was imagining what Caitlyn's genre was, it would be a torch-song, throw-back type of music with contemporary sound, somewhat like what you used: Garbage's "#1 Crush" (great song, BTW, and I dig you going to that extra effort to use the words).
Punk rock, hard rock, and metal would not be able to take advantage of the singing talent of Caitlyn as well as other genres : there's a reason why with "good singers", they play ballads and softer music. Both volume, and the number of beats and notes in faster music tends to get in the way of the singing voice.

edit: you could have Kindred Knights be a bunch of humans playing torchy, gothy "Vampire music", as I've heard many contemprary bands do.
Maybe a female version of Type O Negative?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

The storyteller's guide (or Guilded Cage, not sure which) goes into detail about how Kindred react to the use of disciplines. 

One of the things it mentions specificly is the use of disciplines in Elysium. Even sensory ones like auspex. It says that even the use of aura perception requires the vampire to concentrate on his target and other vampire's who understand about auspex are always on the lookout for vampires who stare to hard.

Thats fine though. Nikolai wouldn't necessarily know that and is in character for a newly embraced kindred.

Qadir is specificly looking for any use of disciplines.

Elysium is supposed to be a safe haven for all vampires. It is the one place they are supposed to be able to let down their guard and mingle with their own kind. Auspex is considered an invasion of privacy and your not supposed to have to worry about such things in Elysium. Of course, in reality, you do whatever you want as long as you don't get cought.

For instance, if anyone knew you had used that rituel before attending, it would be frowned upon. However, there is no way for anyone to know, so it is cool.

Using disciplines on another vampire, especially dominate and presence is considered VERY bad form. Of course, beating someone into a bloody mush with Potance isn't very nice either.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I'm thinking that because Cate has had everything handed to her, she doesn't trust her own skills. She is VERY good, but she doesn't think so herself.

Why hasn't she been "discovered"?

Could be any number of reasons. Perhaps her band is holding her back. Maybe she is carrying them, and isn't willing to break up the band to go at it on her own.

She has immense talent by herself, but her band isn't all that great and is holding her down.

*shrug* Just a thought.

I was thinking of Type O Negative myself.

And yes Reaper, you where right about how I plan to run this. You guys are going to drive the game. I have only a few very vague ideas for anything that even resembles a plot.

I am mainly just here to roll dice and play the NPCs.


----------



## reapersaurus

you sure that Storytelling suggestion wan't an alternate, non-typical source?
Cause it doesn't get at those themes you mentioned in the books I've seen.

It certainly could be run that way, but it doesn't make sense to me, as a story.
Not because my character happens to use Auspex, but as a group of individuals, each with different Talents, it seems strange that they would go so far as to deny the innate use of their Embraced powers.
No violence makes sense - that just wouldn't do.
But I always assumed that vampires use their Caine-given powers constantly to manipulate and influence other vampires (like the lower Presence power).

When WOULD vampiric powers be OK to use?
Is it just Elysium that gets this restriction, or is all vampire society based on not using vampire powers, because of 'rudeness', or impropriety perhaps?

I'll respond to Qadir - let me know if it's OK to assume that Nik would have already known about Qadir's diablerie (he's been out with him in the past).


----------



## KitanaVorr

LOL okay reaper where do I begin in answering all your questions?

Well, at the risk of sounding totally vain I took Caitlyn's example from my own life.  So if you need an example of how someone could leave medical school, a wealthy family, and all those lovely connections to run half across the country and start over from nothing...that would be me.

Basically all that privledge comes with a cost of her own personal desires, and she didn't want to pay that cost anymore.

Hey and she does sing ballads!  And it definitely easy for her to do, but she loves Garbage more than Mariah Carey even if she sings Mariah Carey better.  I'm a first soprano, I could hit every note Mariah could but I can't sound as incredible as Shirley Manson (waaah) but I still sing her anyway!

And yes she has great talent, but not everybody who has great talent gets to be discovered right away.  It normally takes alot of work and luck,and for Caitlyn she hasn't had that moment yet.  

So she is someone with a good heart, who is innocent in some things, wise in others depending on her life's experience which at this moment, she's quite young and its quite varied.

You also have to understand that what drives Caitlyn is not money.  All she needs to have money is to go home.  What drives her is to prove to her parents that SHE was right and not them.  Also to prove to herself that she's not one of them (her parent's social circle).

oh uh I'm not a struggling singer btw.  my brain is  more powerful than my voice and so i'm an engineer


----------



## KitanaVorr

oh I should make clear

Caitlyn is not me.  I am not Caitlyn.  I just used some stuff from my past to fill up her past.

She has her own set of problems as well, like her being so naive.  (I am soooo not.)  And she's more put together (I am sooo a nutcase).



And I did not run away to New York to become a singer. I...uh...let's not say why I ran away to New York shall we?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I'm almost certain this was brought up in The Gilded Cage and it is mentioned to some degree in the Storyteller's Guide as one of the Q&A answers.

I'll post some of that tonight when I get home. I don't know if I can explain it in a way that will make a lot of sense.

It basicly boils down to this:

Liberal usage of high levels of Auspex, Presense (read Majesty), and Dominate would cause any sort of social structure or hierarchy to collapse. Vampires would stop attending Elysium if they had to fear their minds being read, their memories getting wiped, or being driven insane by dementation.

A Prince cannot gain and hold respect if someone in the room is using something like Majesty. Likewise, a Prince who uses such powers to gain resect will be resented because those who fall victem to it will know that their respect was not real, but forced upon them.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

From the Storyteller's guide:


----------



## reapersaurus

oh, hell yeah - high vampiric powers that take over the actions or control the emotions have no place in a civilized society.

However, (IMO) just "seeing the world with your Vampire eyes" shouldn't be included in the same context as Dominating someone's actions.

About Caitlyn - I'll have to wait to reply till we get back from our celebrating - it's Vych's and I's 10th anniversary, so we'll be out till tomorrow night.


----------



## Shalimar

I would like to say wow, we were almost down a perky singer.  Ash, your dice don't like me  actually that turned out the way I expected, Sabrina has much lower self-control then my other characters, though Ash might disagree about Shalimar(Sabrina at least hasn't hit anyone yet).

Hopefully I got to feed soon, or the Sheriff might exercise his ideas about my destruction.  I also have to add 'What a jerk' he sees a child and thinks, hmm better kill it.  Though I do agree with the Sire killing.


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *it's Vych's and I's 10th anniversary, so we'll be out till tomorrow night. *




Congratulations! 

edit: heh only one word and I still manage to misspell it.


----------



## KitanaVorr

ok the song's done, lol I didn't realize that no one could move around until after she's done singing.  I didn't realize she was going to be THE act, I thought she was just background music...LOL although after those rolls I suppose no background for her.


----------



## Shalimar

Just think of all the ramifications of her performance:  The Toreodor are talking record deals, One of the richest Kindred families is talking parties.  If she keeps it up like this, I don't think she'll have low resources for long.

Right now Sabrina is struggling to keep control of herself, which she will probably be doing until the mortals vamoose, though she doesn't know that that is what she craves.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Hmm, maybe it will just always be slow on the weekends, eh?  Oh and when will the mortals have to vamoose exactly?  I'm guessing they don't really get to intermingle with the vampiric crowd, eh?  Too tempting?


----------



## reapersaurus

well, kit - usually, i post more on the weekends...

without Ash on during the weekends, the talk would pretty much be just about player issues, and most of the time once the game starts, people don't talk to each other much about player topics.

But not me! 

So I've been thinking about this first scene - 
I'd think having a whole room full of vampires be blown away by a performance - that kind of requires that anybody with contacts do what they can to further an up-and-comers career (booking gigs, record deals, etc).
But how good REALLY was that performance?
Let's look a bit further at the much-maligned Storyteller dice roll mechanic:

How good REALLY is 4 success rolls? What kind of in-game reactions would that roll dictate?
These are hard questions to answer, and unfortunately the book IMO is wrong in the way it deals with it.

For example, my character is only marginally good with guns - he used them professionally when he was human, and when he was a Hunter, and still knows how to use them to good effect. He has 4 in DEX and 2 in Firearms.
When he shoots, he'd use those (6 dice).
If the target # was 6, than on average, his shooting skill would result in 3 successes.

Success descriptions in rules:
1 success: Marginal
2 successes: Moderate
3: Complete
4: Exceptional
5 or more: Phenomenal

So he'd probably impress people with his shooting skill enough to make him a champion-caliber shooter?
Assuming only barely above average rolls, he'd get 4 successes (Exceptional)
And 5 successes he could probably do about 20% of the time (total guess), so when he did, he'd be recruited for the Olympic team then?

See what I'm getting at, guys?
It's well known the limitations of the ST dice-rolls. They are highly dependant on the difficulty rating influencing the success roll.
However, upping the difficulty can over-impact the roll - for example, changing the number to 7 would have resulted in only 2 successes in Caitlyn's performance.

Now. How hard should it have been to impress a group of vampires?
Well, how many performances have vampires seen over their lives?
How immune are they to emotional singing?
After thinking about it a bit, I probably would guess the difficulty at a 7 or 8.
The problem is well noted that there is such HUGE difference between 6, 7 and 8 for how it affects rolls.
The mechanic doesn't give the ST many choices in setting difficulties.
(BTW: I'd heard this argument awhile back, but didn't actually understand the problem until i thought about how it works in this very scene)

Further (I know it's overkill, but...) to discuss the # of successes problem: 
If a PAID performer is on stage, wouldn't the audience expect either a higher difficulty, OR a higher # of successes?
For example, many normal human singers probably have 3 in CHA and 3 in Singing.
So on average, they would get 3 successes if the target # is 6.
I can't picture an average Performer going up and bowling over a crowd of vampires if they get 4 successes.
And Caitlyn is not average: she has 9 dice - on a good roll, she could get 6 successes, which is off the charts by the book.

Does that sound right to you guys? What are your thoughts on this, if you've read this?

LAstly, Ash - 
on Caitlyn's roll, she should have gotten an extra roll of that 10, since she's using her Specialty, right? I just noticed that after thinking this thru (it wasn't obvious).


----------



## KitanaVorr

How would an average of 3 make him a champion shooter?  It just means he hit what he shot at.

I think it works there just fine.  His learned skill (2) plus natural talent (4).


----------



## Shalimar

It only takes 1 success to hit, anything above that just makes it that much more impressive.


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Shalimar _*It only takes 1 success to hit, anything above that just makes it that much more impressive. *




hmm so 1 success is he actually hit what he shot at.  And more than that means he was more accurate?


----------



## reapersaurus

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Success descriptions in rules:
> 1 success: Marginal
> 2 successes: Moderate
> 3: Complete
> 4: Exceptional
> 5 or more: Phenomenal*



this description is (just about) all we have to work with in V:tM.

The shooting description is not the best, because the target numbers would be different for a bullseye, etc.
For example, I'd guess the target # for a bullseye would be 9 or 10, depending on the range, etc.

Try to apply it to Caitlyn's singing, I think it's a very good illustration of what I'm trying to get at.

In Caitlyn's singing example, why would 4 successes have enraptured the whole room?
It just means she sang what she was trying to sing, eh? 

edit: is it OK to use Caitlyn's singing example during a discussion of Vampire rules, and how they have to be carefully approached to properly model what is going on in our party scene?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Well, this is what I understood it to mean for Caitlyn.

She practices stringently at her craft (5) so she would have the chance to be really good.  She also has personal charisma (4) so she could also get the audiences attention by just her presence.

So she has 9 chances to do well where someone who might not know anything more wouldn't and so a better chance of getting a 4?

Blah LOL I don't know.  Its up to Ash, he's the ST.  I don't know how other ST's handled it in the past.

oh, I have a question about Victoria was she supposed to be sort of equal in talent, etc,  to Cate? That's the jist of what I got from your post.  And if so, and she was already well-known and stuff with a bodyguard (you) does that mean that your face is a well-known face?  A Murder-suicide with celebrities make news.


----------



## reapersaurus

great questions.

Since you mentioned it, I'll address both.

The reason that Caitlyn has such high skill in this arena is because of the 21 freebie points, where I still don't know where they came from other than the bottom of the human sheet.
Having a human with such high ability is problematic in 2 ways:
1) If a human can be THAT good at something (9 dice), than it kind of devalues the powers that vampires possess (since very few vampires have that much).  Humans normally can only start with max of 3 in skills.
2) Caitlyn has nowhere to go now. Her powers can't go higher, since 21 freebies was in lieu of gaining vampire powers. When you're Embraced, the only way I can think to make it work is to only have her gain 3 Disciplines and make her 13th Gen (since she wouldn't have any freebies to put in Generation).

I'm not making ANY judgments about Caitlyn, or the characdter sheet - I'm just giving observations about how the game is impacted by rules decisions (it's kind of my bailiwick.
Well, that and using rare words that I hope people don't mind having to maybe have to look up from time to time... ).

And how Ash handles this is totally his call, of course.

About Victoria - I went into a bit more detail on my story page (linked a few times) on my website.
Nikolai's Victoria was an up-and-coming, about-to-make-it singer of the early 90's.
She was not nearly as charismatic or beautiful as Caitlyn, though.
Talent she had, but not in a very commercial genre (think Loreena McKennit, or Milla Jovovich, etc)
While publicity might easily have entered into it, my story didn't have it as a highly-publicized case.
I'd actually never thought about that.
(Let me think)
It WAS a while ago, and it never made a big splash.
Nikolai was acquitted, and the murderer never found. (of course, Nik couldn't tell them what had ACTUALLY happened)

Nik has changed much through the long years (over 10), and dropped out of society long ago.
I guess it's a matter of public record, so if his identity became known to the general public, someone might recognize him.
He doesn't exactly interact with the public that much these days, and he's fairly recently moved back to the States.
He spends his time in the Chantry a lot, but does go out for excitement and research.

Open question: Do we as Vampires have NY State ID's? Passports? How would we establish an identity when a lot of our ages just don't jive with our looks?
I guess we are all recent enough to still use our real identities - hmm.. interesting thoughts.
I like bringing the characters more to life by thinking it thru...


----------



## KitanaVorr

*scratches head*

well unless one of you wants to perform...I don't think that will hurt any thing any of you do.  I purposely put the freebies in something very human for her that shouldn't affect any of you.  I also wanted to give her something that makes her stand out from the other humans and would make her worthy of an embrace.

I wasn't going to worry about vampire powers because I expected for her to start out with not very much or my generation (wouldn't that depend on who embraced Cate regardless of freebie points?)

And Cate's not about to get embraced right away first of all with the edict anyway unless someone does a bad thing.

So I don't think it impacts the rules much in this case.  However I agree with you that if I had put her points differently it definitely would have made a difference, but I tried not to do that where it should affect any of you.  I mean she's beautiful and a great singer...LOL i don't think vampires will run in fear of that.

More questions about Victoria.  What's an up-and-coming doing with a body guard then?  They don't usually get them until after they've made it big.  Did she have a stalker?   I'd think though a singer able to afford a bodyguard (they are EXTREMELY expensive, don't you know?  they get paid about 80 to 150 thousand depending on how good they are) that died in a murder-suicide with her lover who happens to be same said bodyguard would make big news.

EDIT:

oh there are very few words in the english language that I actually have to look up so don't worry about me, reaper--amaze us with vocab


----------



## reapersaurus

Don't think of Nikolai as a Bodyguard like Kevin Costner in "The Bodyguard".
Think of him more as a security specialist hired for particular events.
He wasn't a full-time bodyguard, he was in charge of personal safety at festivals, personal appearances and such.
Once they got together, he stopped being a bodyguard.
See here.

And it was only a murder, that he was acquitted of.
He didn't succeed in killing himself.  
(I appreciate the work for my character - discussion is always fun, and helps me flesh him out more in my mind)

I don't see, though, how you could be missing how Caitlyn's skills (and especially attributes) don't affect others in the party.

Vych could probably tell you her experiences, but how I saw it, Caitlyn's Appearance and Charisma are definately comparable with Vychtorya's.
I know I'll fail in getting this across right, but let's put it this way:
If Caitlyn and Vychtorya entered opposite ends of the room, I'm sure almost every head would turn, and they would be torn as to which side to look at.

It's just the way it is - I know neither of you are directly in competition with each other, but there are only so many personality archetypes in Vampire games, and you are both playing ones very close to each other in how they affect the people around them.
It just narrows down the playfield for each of your characters if you want to be unique from each other - how many different ways can one be Charismatic and Beautiful? LOL

Usually, Vych gets on the dance floor at some stage, and tries to levy favor for herself by dancing well. She's not a dancing specialist, or making that her prime character occupation, though.
With Caitlyn being a Specialist Performer, it seems kind of repetitive for Vych to indulge in  that aspect of her character, so I'm guessing she's trying to go more the socialite-hob-nob route.

You said:







> I also wanted to give her something that makes her stand out from the other humans and would make her worthy of an embrace.



 that's very interesting, because while it is repetitive, this would make you a prime candidate for the Toreador and Toreador alone.
Their specialty is preserving beauty and talent.
To open it up to Jemal and Shalimar, I still don't understand why a Ventrue/Brujah would be that interested in Caitlyn.

I'm guessing that you guys (especially Jemal and Kitana) just clicked, or had an idea to connect your characters, but as a superficial opinion, it seems obvious to me that Caitlyn would be Toreador ALL the way.

Please you guys, do whatever works in the game and is fun, I'm just responding to what you're saying for some dialogue on the weekend.
Don't read this like I'm pushing for you to do or change anything.
I also don't know how you're going to be Embraced (with the moritorium).
If you have a storyline worked out, by all means make it work, cause I'm out of ideas about that.

I know I'll regret spending the time on this post, and I hope people don't take anything I've said wrong - they're just player feedback and impressions - feel fre to ignore....


----------



## KitanaVorr

Well I'm sure Vych can tell you this, but she and Caitlyn are very different type of people.  And there are plenty of different ways to be charismatic and beautiful because everyone is unique.

I just realized that Vych changed her character sheet from what it was before now that I looked at it again.  I didn't know that before.

Besides I originally got the impression that she was going to be seductive older woman archetype.  Whereas Cate is the young naive archetype.

Even so, what is the harm in two beautiful women?

And I think I already went through the reasons for my clan ideas earlier.

EDIT: Vamps get more attribute and ability points than humans anyway.  And you have 15 freebies so I'm guessing that the 21 comes from the Human not getting those extra dots.


----------



## Shalimar

> To open it up to Jemal and Shalimar, I still don't understand why a Ventrue/Brujah would be that interested in Caitlyn.




Beauty, lust, love or some facsimile.  Who knows the mind of immortal creatures.  I am not going to have Sabrina embrace anyone, its just one more complication she doesn't really need.

I would like to point out that her 5 dots of performance makes her a world class entertainer.  Even a mediocre performance by someone that good is going to be very good for someone else.


----------



## reapersaurus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I would like to point out that her 5 dots of performance makes her a world class entertainer.  Even a mediocre performance by someone that good is going to be very good for someone else. *



hmm....  interesting remark - I do agree that 5 dots is obviously very talented, but I'm wondering if you ascribe more "power" to a 5-Performance character's successes than a 3-Performance character's successes?

if that made any sense...   

And you make my earlier comment more applicable:
If Caitlyn's a world-class performer, than why would she be struggling? 

But I thought of something earlier : 
Just because someone performs their ass off (even if they get 5 or more successes), does that necessarily follow that the whole audience will be enraptured?
I've seen many performances that I thought were quite amazing, whereas someone else slept thru it.

Can we actually boil down the impact a Performance has on the audience to the number of successes that are rolled?
I'd guess that maybe some people don't like music, and were busy doing other things.
I'd guess that some people don't like the genre of music played, and were busy thinking about something else.
I'd guess that some people who even like the genre might have been turned off by the music of the band, so that they couldn't properly appreciate the singer's above-average performance (I've seen that IRL lots of times, haven't you guys?)

I don't really have any point to all this writing, I'm just sharing thoughts, and ideas about the system, and hoping that some of them help the game...


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Even so, what is the harm in two beautiful women?
> 
> And I think I already went through the reasons for my clan ideas earlier.
> 
> EDIT: Vamps get more attribute and ability points than humans anyway.  And you have 15 freebies so I'm guessing that the 21 comes from the Human not getting those extra dots. *



There's nothing wrong with 2 beautiful women, that's for damn sure LOL but when 2 people are playing the same instrument, there's only so many notes on the scale, if youknowwhatimean. 

And I know you went over your clan ideas - I still don't get how she's anything but Toreador.
I'm sorry. I'm being superficial, because I don't know you, and can't project well to get a good picture of a personality until I see the way you play you..  I mean her (Caitlyn) - damn, it's confusing that you put a lot of yourself in the character of Caitlyn.  

about your Edit: I'd guess the same thing.
It just messes it up when (and if) that human goes vamp: there could be no more freebie points, since it's already been factored in...


----------



## reapersaurus

god, I've got diarrhea of the fingers today.

I guess I just like thinking about this system.
Or I like thinking about the characters.
Or I like discussing things with people who have a strong sense of their characters, and put time and thought into it.
Or I like being in a game on the boards with my wife.

Maybe a combo of things...


----------



## KitanaVorr

I didn't put THAT much of me in her.  Just some of my background and experiences to fill in some holes.  Her personality is all her and life experience in New York is all her.

I'm not worried about not having freebie points because hopefully by then I would have saved up enough dots through roleplaying that I can spend those when it does happen.  Like I said, I hadn't planned on her being embraced right on the spot.

And since I myself am a musician I shall point out that when I play duets on the same piano, both players sound just as beautiful playing at the same time.

Besides, it doesn't bother me at all if Vych is high up on charisma and appearance at all so why should it matter? 

So unless it bothers Vych, let us play the characters we want to play and SHUSH =P reaper shush.

And again with the clan ideas...yes she is perfect for Toreador but I want her to be part of a different clan more for story and character development then following it exactly.

EDIT: So bug her too about it and not just me! =)


----------



## Vychtorya

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *This is my first game to run online. I'm begging for patience as well.
> 
> Living outside the city is fine Vych. Whatever you want. *



Thanks Ash  You definitely have my patience. It's not easy to be a DM when not online, but I am finding even playing on line is more difficult. I do have to say I'm starting to like it though. It's been awhile since I got to play Vych so I am REALLY excited about the game!

I think for now, since they just got to NYC, I will have them live above the club for a while. I re-thought it a bit. While they have enough funds to easily do both, it really doesn't lend anything to where I would like to see the story to go. Eventually, I would like them to be able to have/host Elysium if the Prince would see it fit to grant them that. Maybe once the story evolves a bit, time would lend itself to owning a house. The club apartment can only hold small gatherings upstairs, but downstairs in the club itself there is plenty of room. 

Anyway, thanks again for your help. Kit's been helpful too. I think this is gonna be a great game!


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *And since I myself am a musician I shall point out that when I play duets on the same piano, both players sound just as beautiful playing at the same time.*



That's cool! Reaper is a percussionist and I am a clarinetist. Having played many duets myself over the years, both with those better than myself and with those not as skilled, one performer still stands out at times to the audience. But in relation to the game, Vych would not perform at the same time as Cait anyway. So levels of performance aren't a problem. 

*Besides, it doesn't bother me at all if Vych is high up on charisma and appearance at all so why should it matter?*[/QUOTE]I think Reap was just trying to show a possible conflict if we are both in the same room at the same time. Appearance is appearance and even if we weren't "someone's type" so to speak, we still would catch their eye. It doesn't pose a conflict between the two of us really (except if Vych is trying to schmooz and Cait interrupts the conversation by her presence or vice versa - which is BOUND to happen - Vych thinks Cait's pretty, and pretty things attract her clan type). Also, the conflict could be Cait catching someone's attention that Vych is talking to or if Cait gets a really good success roll, then she could enrapture Vych. Anything is possible. It could happen the other way around too.  Cait's a hottie!  Vych could also take away attention from Cait. It's up to Ash and the situation really. I think it will be fun or at least interesting. 

*So unless it bothers Vych, let us play the characters we want to play and SHUSH =P reaper shush.*[/QUOTE]It doesn't bother me per se, but I see his points.

*And again with the clan ideas...yes she is perfect for Toreador but I want her to be part of a different clan more for story and character development then following it exactly.*[/QUOTE]Vych does not plan on trying to bite her. She has enough willpower to resist it and also has a herd so that will help. However, she would like to try to help Cait achieve her goals as well as help Carrick with his. Vych is a caregiver type. (Not to be confused with mommy type please.) 

*EDIT: So bug her too about it and not just me! =) *[/QUOTE]Sorry Kit  He's probably not gonna bug me stat wise since I have had this character for quite awhile - playing her in our role playing groups - just had to change a couple of things to make her work for this story. 
But believe me, he WILL call me on stuff and bug me too. He has already actually. Reap is the most honest and fair person I know. (I didn't say that because we are married either - we were friends for years before we were married - just got back from our 10 yr anniversary celebration actually.) 
He also loves to talk OOC. He likes to flesh out all the characters. It helps the game play when do play face to face roleplay on the weekends. He likes discussions. It's a good thing. 

(if i have grammatical errors, I appologize in advance to everyone. I have our 2 yr old constantly pulling at me or attempting to reach the keyboard)


----------



## Shalimar

> (if i have grammatical errors, I appologize in advance to everyone. I have our 2 yr old constantly pulling at me or attempting to reach the keyboard)




I know what that is like.  My nephew is also two.  At the moment he is sitting on my lap trying to hit the keys.  I love him to death, and he's cute as hell but it can get annoying.


----------



## reapersaurus

I've learned the left-hand-block technique while the right hand types, one-finger-style...   LOL 
(I'm at work right now, Vych's at home)

Sometimes our boy slips a finger past my defenses though, and cancels an entire post.  
I still don't know how he does it - I can't find one key that obliterates a post (not even the escape key) but he manages to find it.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Kewl   I play the piano and the saxophone but I'm really a more of a voice person.

LOL okay my turn for a long rant.  What?  I have 2 for every 5 reaper puts in, hehe 

Well for starters with all this talk, Cate is still human and she'll be human for a while as far as I know unless Ash has something in mind.

I'm also more of a roleplaying person and less of a dice person.  So having dice to back me up is nice, but I'm counting more on my ability to invoke the correct response with my writing.  I've never played Vampire before so I don't really understand what the problems are with it all.

Also about him talking to you about stats, he'd have better luck convincing you about yours than me cuz I'm not the wife and honestly he's got no pull over me whatsoever, hehe.  Besides I've never had a chance to play Cate before whereas you've already played Vych before.

Anyway, if Ash thought there would be   a problem, he would have said something before we were so invested in it all.  So I'm guessing its all okee dokee.

I don't mind discussing characters and things like that but if he wants to truly be fair, he needs to bring up Vych as part of the "inequality" or whatever exactly he's referring to instead of basically saying "Vych can't do this because of Cate".

Well, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. 

It makes the character interaction much more interesting so I don't mind at all.  If someone loses interest in her because Vych walks in the room, so be it.  Cate needs to find another way to keep their attention other than flashing her looks or charm.

So to take that to the level of Cate, she is who she is.  She is a young idealistic, slightly naive girl who underestimates herself, but she knows one thing.  She adores music and she dreams of true love.  That one estatic feeling that just envelopes you and gives feeling to song.  In a city she doesn't know too well, she's a little scared, pretty much alone, and trying to fit in.  I don't think that sounds like Vych at all.  I think that sounds just like Cate.


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *LOL okay my turn for a long rant. *



you're more than welcome to rant, but that post left me a bit confused.
I read it 3 times, but I just didn't get the gist of what you're saying. 

not that that matters, mind you, i just thought i'd let you know.... I'll just let you two talk now.  *backing away quietly*

edit : I'm beginning to see why V:tM is a VERY story-based system.
I don't know of too many people that concentrate on the rules too much - maybe because they get in the way of the kinds of stories that people want to tell, and characters that people want to play?  ?

I think I'm going to throw away the rulebook for this game.

I think the In-Character thread is quite stunning so far, so the rules don't matter - let's just keep with the creative writing - 
Kitana - the interspersing of very-appropriate lyrics with your characters thoughts was impressive.


----------



## Shalimar

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *you're more than welcome to rant, but that post left me a bit confused.
> I read it 3 times, but I just didn't get the gist of what you're saying.
> 
> not that that matters, mind you, i just thought i'd let you know.... I'll just let you two talk now.  *backing away quietly*
> 
> edit : I'm beginning to see why V:tM is a VERY story-based system.
> I don't know of too many people that concentrate on the rules too much - maybe because they get in the way of the kinds of stories that people want to tell, and characters that people want to play?  ?
> 
> I think I'm going to throw away the rulebook for this game.
> 
> I think the In-Character thread is quite stunning so far, so the rules don't matter - let's just keep with the creative writing -
> Kitana - the interspersing of very-appropriate lyrics with your characters thoughts was impressive. *




I think this is why it is known as a *story*teller system.  Its about telling a story, the dice are just enablers (is that a word?).  I would much rather tell a good story then see things bogged down in rules that make it too complex to have fun.

That said I would love any comments you have on Sabrina Reap


----------



## KitanaVorr

Well to make it succinct the post was meant to say the following:

Don't bug me about Cate's stats interfering with Vych's stats, bug Vych about her stats interfering with Cate's stats.  You'll get more headway with her than you'll ever get with me.

I see your points, but I completely disagree with your end assessment about how Cate and Vych sharing similiar interests or attributes would be detrimental to the game in any way.  

I don't mind discussing characters, but I dislike it when people complain that my choice of character might disrupt their fun.

Vych and Cate are unique characters.

And yes, if you stick your head in the rules too much you forget to enjoy the game so just enjoy it!  And let the story take you where it wants to take you.

Thank you. I liked the interspersing of the lyrics myself.


----------



## reapersaurus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> * I would much rather tell a good story then see things bogged down in rules that make it too complex to have fun.
> 
> That said I would love any comments you have on Sabrina Reap *



I wholeheartedly agree.
I however don't believe that the rules I've been referring to are complex in any way. (# of dots = # of dice = # of chances to match a target #, the higher the harder)

re: Sabrina
Well, since you asked................    (god, I wish I could resist)

I've been baffled from the get-go at her stats vs her clan.
A Manipulative Brujah?
Playing cross-stereotype is one thing, but it runs the danger of making the character too ineffective game-mechanic wise.
Again, our character's realistic survivability I think has been just about thrown out the window (we all would be dog food in a real vampire world, IMO), so it really doesn't matter in our game.

About her background:
I never bought that Elizabeth wouldn't have been punished more for doing something so heinous. (maybe a little more background about Elizabeth would help explain why she wasn't blood-hunted?)
Taking a child and Embracing it with no permission, against the wishes of her protector would be the closest thing that vampires have to rape.
And that rape aspect IS a little disturbing.... maybe you'd consider editing out the "American Cancer Society" part of the picture - that IS a real life little girl, after all - I know she won't know you used it, but just on principle...

About her stats:
typo on the Willpower points still (only 2 points spent)
Also, my approach to V:tM characters is to be as effective as you can in your specialty at character creation, then fill in the other areas with exp points later if you want.
What that means for character creation is that instead of making your stats 2,3,3 or something, I go 2,5,1.
The reason for this is that increasing dots after character creation has a penalty.
To increase her Manipulation to 5 later will cost 25 points, if memory serves.
Increasing her Appearance from 2 to 3 would only cost 15 later (saving you 10 points).

Likewise with her Subterfuge score.
It seems that Subterfuge, Expression, etc might be more her character than Brawl or Athletics or Firearms, but you know her much better.
Where does the Firearms come from, by the way?

And I'd definately put all my Discipline points in one Discipline that I wanted to be good at, instead of 1 in each, for the same reason.
Plus, most of the time, a 3 Discipline is more powerful than 3 1 Disciplines.
I don't get her having 1 in Potence.

That's about all the feedback.
I think I finally understand why you want her low gen : to have Nathan be an Elder, right? (I was confused why you'd want her low gen particularly - her powers dont really benefit from it)


----------



## reapersaurus

i think I'm done in the OOC thread re: player feedback.
Have fun.


----------



## Shalimar

I was working from a concept of a character that I was really interested by in a novel actually.  If your familiar with the first of Laurell K Hamilton's Anita Blake vampire hunter series you would know who.

I didn't really create her for her ability to survive a fight, more as a story character.  The character I saw that interested me was a child Vampire who became the Master(Prince) of St. Louis.  Although the vamp in question was 1000 years or so old I thought it would be interesting to see how she started out.  

Once I had the concept of a child in mind I asked myself about what children are like.  Being as I had my nephew around temper tantrums sprung to mind, and what is scarier then a child with a temper tantrum? A child with super natural strength having a temper tantrum (smallville comes to mind), and so we give her potence.  All children crave attention(and throw tantrums when they don't get it), hence presance.  Neither second level discipline really seemed like something she would really work towards(I see those first three dots as more of an innate thing with the blood, especially with those two disciplines) hence the dot of celerity.  Actually of all her current disciplines the only one I see her trying to learn to use better at all is presance for a few reasons.

Those reasons being she wants to make Nathan and Jemal proud of her, using powers that remind Nathan of his enemy and failure not really fitting that goal.  And yes I know it will be difficult for her to learn a cross-clan discipline but she will want to learn dominate when she finds out about it, and will work extra hard to be able to do things like her brother.  She will throw said tantrums if he doesn't agree.

The reason for the low Gen was actually to make her sire fit in with my concept of her( or at the time it was a him, but not so much anymore, can't say why I changed it, not too sure myself).  Elizabeth wouldn't have done it in the first place if she wasn't sure she had the leverage over the right people to get away with it.  The elders play their games as if everyone is just a pawn on their chessboard, this was just a gambit to sucker Nathan into doing something stupid out of anger.  The low gen also played into the whole supernaturally powerful child image.

The skills, talents, and knowledges were really hard for me to place she really shouldn't have anything at too high a score as she is a child and hasn't really even had half of her education, and only 8 or so years to learn the skills.  The Fire arms was actually a little bit from my own childhood.  If you remember the original mario brothers from regular nes, then you remember duckhunt, something thats pretty easy to play.  A few years later when I had reason to pick up a pistol, that had actually gotten me pretty used to the grip and the hand-eye  coordination hard as that is to believe.  In the 90's those things are much more rampant and easy to get a hold of if you want to, especially to the rich children.

The dot of brawl actually is a mixture of self-defnse classes that were pretty ineffectual because it was more of a debutante social gathering (you know the kind, those mother daughter workshops, the ones that are more about confidence then anything else and then hand out a little bottle of mace at the end)


----------



## reapersaurus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *(you know the kind, those mother daughter workshops, the ones that are more about confidence then anything else and then hand out a little bottle of mace at the end) *



nope - wouldn't know 'em. 

ya, a child is very hard to stat out.

You read vampire fiction? Is it World of Darkness fiction? (you mentioned Prince)
How are they?


----------



## Shalimar

No, the Anita blake vampire series is not World of Darkness at all.  But as long as you are ok with a strong female lead I think they are very good reads.  She has woven the supernatural into her world just as the WoD has, but in a very different way.  The supernatural is fact, everyone knows that they exist.  Its pretty interesting.


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Also, my approach to V:tM characters is to be as effective as you can in your specialty at character creation, then fill in the other areas with exp points later if you want.
> What that means for character creation is that instead of making your stats 2,3,3 or something, I go 2,5,1.
> The reason for this is that increasing dots after character creation has a penalty.
> To increase her Manipulation to 5 later will cost 25 points, if memory serves.
> Increasing her Appearance from 2 to 3 would only cost 15 later (saving you 10 points).
> *[/i]




I think me, Jemal, Shalimar went the route of making our stats fit our character ideas rather than trying to figure out how to make them the most powerful.

I hope I didn't start all this by giving her the two 5's.  Because the only thing I meant by that was to help her stand out in the midst of vampires and hopefully not have them want to make her food.  Now that I know what those 5's mean, I might have made the stats lower.  I have no interest in making Cate "super vampire of the year" at all.  I'm only interested in roleplaying the personality of Cate, not in her specialization (of which the only specialization she has is 'performance art').

Also, do remember that I have never played this game before, don't know all the tricks to it, etc or how anything really works.

EDIT:  hehe I am excited about our first week of full roleplaying!  Anybody else as bouncy as me?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Wow. I'm gone for a few days and look what happens.

A few things to remember:

1. I've siad it before, but I guess I need to say it again. *DO NOT WORRY ABOUT CLAN STEREOTYPES.* For every reason I can think of for a Toreador to embrace Cate, I can think of one for a Ventrue, Brujah, and even Nosferatu. Remember, these people are PEAPLE not the epitome of their clan. A Toreador is not going to embrace somebody only because they can sing. Likewise, a Ventrue may see something in her that he can't just pass up, and it may have nothing to do with her performance. A Nosferatu may embrace her for no other reason than to destroy her beauty. It happens. They do that. That said, a Malkavian might embrace her because he saw a poodle cross the road instead of a chicken.  

2. Cate's performance go so much attention for two reasons. Her exceptional performance (4 successes)  AND her 5 successes on her Appearence roll. They way I look at it, thats 9 successes that can effect the audience in some way. Each one compliments the other. They combination of the two is pretty astounding.

3. Rules. Forget about them. They are my domain and I will handle them. If you feel that your character has been slighted because of the way I handle a rule, send me an email. Keep in mind, I may rule something a particular way for a reason. I'm in this for the story, not a playtest or analysis of the Storyteller System. If I feel the system dosn't give a satisfactory way to represent a situation, I'll handle it.

4. What makes you think the man in the corner is Calebros??


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Reaper, you where right about Cate's extra specialty dice.

Cate's Extra Performance Die: 6, (Total: 5 Performance Successes!)

*Experience Awards for the Week:*
Sabrina: 2 (1 standard + 1 attendance)
Cate: 2 (1 standard + 1 attendance)
Vychtorya: 1 (Standard)
Jemal: 1 (Standard)
Nikolai: 1 (Standard)
Maxwell: 1 (Standard)

Please post these totals at the bottom of your character sheets in the Rogue's Gallery.


----------



## KitanaVorr

i got a question, ash.  Is Cate allowed to mingle with the audience?  I wasn't sure so I didnt have her go in the trenches, so to speak, yet.


----------



## Shalimar

Feel free to mingle with Sabrina unless Ash nixes it, formal parties aren't fun for children.

edit: maybe not I don't want to burn all my willpower ressisting temptation because its so close.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Kitana -> Valentine never said you weren't allowed to mingle, so go ahead if you want.

Shali -> That Willpower point insures that you are good for the rest of the scene. Unless you see or smell blood, you want have to spend anymore points or make anymore rolls. You aren't *that* hungry yet. When you get down to 3 or fewer points, *then* you are in real trouble.


----------



## Shalimar

Okie doke.  Remind me to never get that hungry.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

ok  

Have you checked our WoT game today? Looks like the battle has begun.

I'm considered having Ash "come out of the closet" during this.  

At least, where one or two of you can see.

Be sure to check the Star Wars game too. It looks like it is dead and we are kicking around ideas for a new game.


----------



## KitanaVorr

okay =) I shall post again tonight after I get back from class and dinner.

where is that pesky Jemal?


----------



## Shalimar

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *ok
> 
> Have you checked our WoT game today? Looks like the battle has begun.
> 
> I'm considered having Ash "come out of the closet" during this.
> 
> At least, where one or two of you can see.
> 
> Be sure to check the Star Wars game too. It looks like it is dead and we are kicking around ideas for a new game. *




I don't know if you should come out of the closet yet, I mean know one knows you well enough to not try to gentle you.  I mean Shalimar sees you as a friend and would be very compassionate and  understanding, but she would also try to have you gentled for your own safety.  depending on how well things are going between Ashrem and Sirsei he might come out to her, she's less likely to gentle you, but I don't know.  Save my life and Yuri's and then Shali wouldn't tattle.

As far as posting I'm waiting for a little to get Yuri or Sirsei to post something, I'm not sure what role Shalimar would try and take in the fight.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

That was the plan. I'm hoping to be able to save either you or Sersei with the power. That way, whoever was saved could claim that they did it and feel obligated to keep Ashrem's secret.

If I don't get an oportunity like that, I'm not going to channel.


----------



## reapersaurus

(isn't there a WoT OOC thread?) 


> Nikolai
> Qadir remained silent for a time then finally said, "Why do you have interest in accompanying on my patrols young worlock?" The question was simple, yet direct. "It is unusual that one of your house would be interested in such things."



 Ash - do you want me to play it that Nikolai hasn't gone on any patrols yet?

And now I'm going to have to summon up a description that sounds plausible for The HeartBreaker, without having it sound silly.
Nik's looking for it constantly, but he's not exactly putting up Wanted posters, but he'd want to get Qadir's opinion on it....


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Reaper

Either way is fine. If you have been with him, it was only once and you guys didn't talk much.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

While we are analyzing characters, I noticed a problem with Nikolai.

His stats don't seem to match his concept very well.

He has a Strength and Stamina of 1. Thats not very good for a bodyguard. Especially considering that the average Joe has 2. Any kind of physical confrontation is going end badly for you.

As a matter of fact, based solely on physical stats, Sabrina could beat you up.  

Also, your Intelligence. Nikolai has below average Intelligence. I can't see why any vampire (especially the Tremere) would embrace someone who is considered dumb by normal standards.

If I remember correctly, 1 dot in Int equels an IQ of about 80. Thats somewhere in the region of Forest Gump.  

To be honest, I can't see why Qadir would have you on his patrols. The man respects physical ability and brains, two areas Nikolai is severely lacking in. On top of that, your charisma (1 dot)isn't going to be a lot of help convencing him of your other skills.

Normally I wouldn't allow you to make changes to your character after the game has begun, but I don't see how he is going to be playable with this concept and these scores.

My apologies for not catching this sooner.


----------



## reapersaurus

(I've only got a minute to type this out, but)
I designed a character that USED to be physical.
He's not a bodyguard anymore.
He hasn't used his physical skills per se for over 10 years.
In fact, in the backstory, his injury hints that there is a loss of some functioning.

This was replaced with the desire to acquire power, and use manipluation and subterfuge to get what he wants.

To point out Intelligence and charisma as the only attributes that are important is a bit misleading, i think.

Qadir would be very myopic  if he only concentrates on physical or charismatic strengths in evaluating someone. 
In fact, I think it's kind of ironic that you're pointing out Nikolai's inability to physically defend himself when I'm the only one that has pointed out our whole group's inability to defend themselves.

I thought we weren't concentrating on the realisticness of our characters?
If so, than there are many problems with believability - I THOUGHT the group concensus was to concentrate on story, and character interaction.

But his concept is someone who USED to be physical, and has now supplanted that with a purely knowledge-based power source - outwitting (see his Wits, etc) the opponent and manipulating them into blunting their attack, not taking it head-on.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *(I've only got a minute to type this out, but)
> I designed a character that USED to be physical.
> He's not a bodyguard anymore.
> He hasn't used his physical skills per se for over 10 years.
> In fact, in the backstory, his injury hints that there is a loss of some functioning.*




Your backstory said that he had a background in martial arts. After building your muscles to a good level, even day to day physical activities will keep them from degrading that far.

I could see it if you had had a bad bout with cancer or something though.



> *This was replaced with the desire to acquire power, and use manipluation and subterfuge to get what he wants.
> 
> To point out Intelligence and charisma as the only attributes that are important is a bit misleading, i think.*




I never said that they where the only things that where important. Perception measures your ability to notice things, which you do VERY well. Wits is the measure of how long it takes you to react to something. You also do this VERY well. Intelligence measures how good your response is.

With your stats, you are VERY good at realizing something is wrong, but have no clue as to handle it.



> *Qadir would be very myopic  if he only concentrates on physical or charismatic strengths in evaluating someone. *




Myopic? Maybe he is. Qadir is very physical. While he would respect other forms of combat, such as magic, your low charisma isn't capable of convencing him to change his opinion. If he spends any time around you, he will realize you are incapable of formulating any real tactics as well.



> *In fact, I think it's kind of ironic that you're pointing out Nikolai's inability to physically defend himself when I'm the only one that has pointed out our whole group's inability to defend themselves.*




I don't care if they can't defend themselves physically. That isn't the point at all. They didn't come from a background as a martial artist and bodyguard. I get the impression that as a hunter, he used his physical abilities. He went straight from being a hunter to the embrace right? Muscles do not deteriorate after the Embrace.

My point is that I can't see your body atrophying so much in such a short period of time. He was obviously in good shape for a while and, short of sickness, your body will not break down that fast. Normal everyday movement will keep you above a strength of 1 for a long time if you where ever in fairly good shape (2 or 3).



> *I thought we weren't concentrating on the realisticness of our characters?
> If so, than there are many problems with believability - I THOUGHT the group concensus was to concentrate on story, and character interaction.*




Maybe I just missed it, I admit I didn't follow the bickering earlier too close, but when did we throw realism to the curb? I don't have a problem with suspending disbelief for a little while, this is a game about vampires after all.

The problem arrises when you start having to roll dice. You are simply incapable of doing many of the things that your background would suggest you would be at least fairly good at.



> *But his concept is someone who USED to be physical, and has now supplanted that with a purely knowledge-based power source - outwitting (see his Wits, etc) the opponent and manipulating them into blunting their attack, not taking it head-on. *




As it stands, you aren't able to do that. You are incapable of formulating detailed plans. You will almost certainly realize that you are in danger. You will even be able to react to it VERY quickly. But you want know HOW to effectivly react.


----------



## KitanaVorr

I have a question. 

I thought that we could only control our PC's and that we couldn't control any of NPC's like how Vych can control Carrick?  Or is Vych playing both Carrick and Vych?


----------



## reapersaurus

oh, man - i have a lot of questions, but i can't go into them.
I just want you guys to know that I am now stifling what I post here, because I don't believe that you want to hear my opinion about the characters or the story.

I don't think that my words will be construed correctly, or with an open mind, so I'm afraid I can't properly answer Ash's observations (believable characters) and questions about Nikolai, or Kitana's question about Vych. (whatever I say might be remembered as "bickering")

Vych is on pins and nails herself, believing that you guys are lumping her and me together, in game and out.
Vych doesn't know WHAT to do, and what's allowed, I do know that much.
My guess is that she took Ash's statements about us players forwarding the story to heart.
Or maybe she's responding to your lead, Kitana... **stifle**

Let me put it this way:
Kitana - if you (an ENBoard In-Character veteran) don't take player questions well, why are you asking Vych about her character?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Whoa reaper, where did that come from? 

Let's get some points straight:

1.  I'm not asking Vych about her character.  I'm asking Ash if its okay for us to play other NPC's and what his rules are on those.

2.  I don't mind criticism of my PC, not at all.  You can say whatever it is you want about Caitlyn, yada yada, etc.

What I DO mind is when you complain to me about Caitlyn's stats but you don't address Vych's or yours at all.

I was fine with you discussing why Cate has a 5 in this and a 5 in that...but then LO and BEHOLD I glance at your character sheets and see a 5's EVERYWHERE!!!  I despise hypocrisy. 

What I DO mind is that you get upset if you can' convince me that you're right and keep repeating the same argument over and over as if repeating yourself will change my mind.  

Wake up reaper.  I'm not weakminded.  I will disagree with you if I think you're wrong and you're just going to have to accept that I disagree.  

3.  I don't remember EVER taking an NPC and saying what they thought or doing their actions for them.  I don't remember taking over Valentine's actions at all.  So don't say that Vych followed MY lead.

4.  Reaper, it normally takes alot to piss me off, but you are getting really close to it right now.  I dislike the min-maxing you're doing with your characters, but I accept that Ash wouldn't have let you in the game with a character he didn't approve of.  But apparently, you wouldn't let it go even when I told you that I liked her the way she was and even tried to explain to you about why I choose the stats I did.

5.  There is a difference between helping someone with character development and basically pounding down on them to try and change their character.

6.  I can separate IC and OOC.  Your insinuation that I can't do that insults me and I feel that insult deeply.  Your insinuation that I can't take criticism well after I have born your innumerable impolite posts about Caitlyn insults me.

If that was what you intended, consider me gravely insulted.


----------



## reapersaurus

i dare anyone to read the threads and tell kitana how many things are wrong with what she just posted.


----------



## reapersaurus

i can't - i REPEAT! - I can't respond because _I_ will be branded as trying to cause problems, or getting in people's faces, or something.

If you REALLY think that I've been trying to cause problems, maybe you should read what I wrote again : I was obviously trying to understand our characters better, and trying to help with the system.

If you REALLY  think I got in anyone's face, than maybe you should read what I wrote again: I have been hands-off, and serving what I've phrased on a platter so that the reader could take what they wished, and no more.

If you REALLY think that I've been impolite or attacking in any way, shape or form, than please quote me and we can discuss it - if you REALLY want to discuss things.
Unless you quote properly, than you can not wave your hand and state unequivocably that I've done those things - 
people normally don't get away with making up stuff IRL without having proof - why should they on the internet?

I'd encourage Vych in posting her side of things, but she's afraid (probably wisely) that it doesn't matter what she says - she'll only be viewed as "the wife".


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Let's get some points straight:
> 
> 2.
> 4.
> 5.  *



those are really the same point, and i think we should discuss that when i get some time.
I'd recommend re-reading my posts to you re: Caitlyn.

3. I'll leave for Vych - as I said, I stifled myself.

And I'd suggest to re-read most everything before responding.
I really don't think you're responding to what's been said, per se, as much as you're responding to how you're taking it.
What else explains you posting all that from me saying :







> Or maybe she's responding to your lead, Kitana... *stifle*
> 
> Let me put it this way:
> Kitana - if you (an ENBoard In-Character veteran) don't take player questions well, why are you asking Vych about her character?



edit: Go back and read Shalimar's response to my post re: Sabrina - now THAT'S someone taking player questions well.
I gave my personal questions and observations about her character, and she responded impersonally and helped me understand Sabrina more.
I talked to her exactly as I spoke to you - I don't think she was "greatly insulted", or felt that I was trying to force her to change her character...
but I wouldn't dare put words in someone's mouth.
Shalimar could tell you whether or not she thought i was "critical" of her.


----------



## Yellow Sign

I am just a Lurker around here and I am sorry if this is not my place to say this but someone just asked if after reading the threads and see if anything was wrong with KitanaVorr's last post. 

Well, I can find nothing wrong at all. 


My two cents


----------



## Shalimar

Perhaps we can put all this behind us for the moment.  I think you are wrong that Vyc is just going to be treated as your wife.  She is a person, and if anyone treated me as just an anything I would injure them.  I have my own views as I am sure she does.  She is not an extension of you.  To suggest I would treat someone as less because of her relationships is insulting.  I will just believe that I read that statement wrong for my own peace of mind.

The question about Npcs is a valid one, one I would like a little clarification on.

I do have just a few questions about Nikolai if thats ok, if it isn't then ignore what I am about to say.  I am just trying to understand:

Is Nikolai suppoused to be mentally retarded in his character history?  If yes, then how did he learn so much Thaumatergy so quickly, if he isn't mentally retarded, and he hasn't acted it yet, how can he only have a single dot

I can understand his injury making him physically weak.  I don't understand how he could be s o physically weak for a period of 10 years when he was working as a vampire hunter when he clained to have kiled 1 or 2 I am willing to believe he did it on planning, but he isn't the brightest person as it is.

My last question is how he s able to act so buddy buddy with a charisma soo low, is it a side effect of his injury that he is unappealing as a person yet still a nice enough guy?


----------



## reapersaurus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I do have just a few questions about Nikolai if thats ok, if it isn't then ignore what I am about to say.  I am just trying to understand:
> 
> Is Nikolai suppoused to be mentally retarded in his character history?  If yes, then how did he learn so much Thaumatergy so quickly, if he isn't mentally retarded, and he hasn't acted it yet, how can he only have a single dot (in INT, I presume)*



I'd be glad to discuss things rationally.
Hell, I'd be overjoyed to actually be able to say what I want to say, since these questions are about MY character.

No, Nik's not retarded, the loss of functioning is more a symbolic loss of humanity.
I'm finishing work now, and will go home and re-read the Intelligence attribute, because I didn't come to the conclusions that Ash seems to hold about the Int attribute. 
I never realized it was that character-defining.
If it is, I'll re-visit my attribute points. 







> I can understand his injury making him physically weak.  I don't understand how he could be s o physically weak for a period of 10 years when he was working as a vampire hunter when he clained to have kiled 1 or 2



Vampire Hunters don;t all fight hand-to hand with vampires.
In a strike-type team, you need people of various talents.
I will be replying to Ash similarly re: his post.







> My last question is how he s able to act so buddy buddy with a charisma soo low, is it a side effect of his injury that he is unappealing as a person yet still a nice enough guy?



Well, I think your question comes from Ash misrepresenting the stats.

Charisma is not all-important.
In fact, in the V:tM rulebook, it explicitly describes under the Manipulation attribute that characters with high Manip scores can regularly get people to do what they want, even though they don't like them. (or something like that - that's all from memory)

I don't see Nik as being a Charismatic, "you like me, you Really Like Me" guy.
I don't see why Manipulation, Subterfuge, and Wits are nullified by having 1 dot in Int and Cha.  
Does every character have to be the same light-and-bubbly, "You must love me" type?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Okay

I will do a post-by-post analysis of all of Reaper's posts if Ash doesn't mind, but I don't want to start a flame war on this thread.  Nor do I want to start a flame war through an email either as I am in several games with reaper and would prefer not to start a feud.

Reaper, your response to my question about Vych and Carrick was inappropriate and uncalled for.  And this will be the post I will respond to line by line for you.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> oh, man - i have a lot of questions, but i can't go into them.
> I just want you guys to know that I am now stifling what I post here, because I don't believe that you want to hear my opinion about the characters or the story.[/i]




Since its really only Caitlyn that you have been talking about back there more than any other character I would have to assume that you were refering to our discussion about her.  I have never stifled you.  You are free to discuss your opinion as I am free to have mine.  I am insulted to think that you would think I would stifle anyone's opinion.  



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> _I don't think that my words will be construed correctly, or with an open mind, _




When have I ever belittled your opinions?  I can disagree with you and read your words with an open mind at the same time.  Not everyone who reads what you say will agree with you.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> _so I'm afraid I can't properly answer Ash's observations (believable characters) and questions about Nikolai, or Kitana's question about Vych. (whatever I say might be remembered as "bickering")_




Well this part is directed toward Ash so he  can answer this.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> _Vych is on pins and nails herself, believing that you guys are lumping her and me together, in game and out.
> Vych doesn't know WHAT to do, and what's allowed, I do know that much._




I know that which is why I asked the question about NPC's earlier.  I didn't know if Vych and Ash worked out something whereas she would be able to control Carrick.  And  Vych has nothing to worry about.  We don't lump you two together.    I have absolutely nothing against her whatsoever.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> _My guess is that she took Ash's statements about us players forwarding the story to heart.
> _




Well I can see that part.  If she did, its okay then.  I don't mind that at all.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> _Or maybe she's responding to your lead, Kitana... **stifle**_




WHAT lead?  I can only assume you're talking about me controlling an NPC.  I don't recall taking one of the vampires and having them think about me.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> _Let me put it this way:
> Kitana - if you (an ENBoard In-Character veteran) don't take player questions well, why are you asking Vych about her character? _




I have been good at responding to all your questions.  I have dealt with all your complaints about why my character has a 5 in perform and 5 in appearance just fine.  The reason this insults me is because after doing ALL that you think I don't take criticism well?!  Why?  Because I disagree with you?  Because I ask you why you are complaining about my 5's when you have so many of your own?  That the hypocrisy that I don't like.

Alright.  I hope this satisfies your request.  I won't do any more analysis  because I'm sure Ash wouldn't want me to keep this up.

As far as I am concerned, this argument is over with.  I disagree with you, Reaper.  You disagree with me.  We will agree to disagree and let the game continue without this mess.


----------



## Shalimar

> No, Nik's not retarded, the loss of functioning is more a symbolic loss of humanity.I'm finishing work now, and will go home and re-read the Intelligence attribute, because I didn't come to the conclusions that Ash seems to hold about the Int attribute.
> I never realized it was that character-defining.
> If it is, I'll re-visit my attribute points.




Ok, I undersand a bit more now, but the loss of humanity is the loss of humanity points.  Has nothing to do with intelligence, at least till you get down to 1 or 2.

Also, no one trusts people with high manipulation scores.  Thats from the book, couple that with the 1 dot of Charisma...


----------



## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

*I'm sorry.*

*sigh*  

Before I get into this post, I want to offer my sincerest apologies. All of you put a lot of time and effort into your characters. I realize that, and am therefore further shamed for what I am about to do.

Consider the game dissolved.

I play these games to have fun. When they begin to become a source of stress and tension, they are no longer a game but a chore. I’ve read through the above posts and can’t find anything constructive or positive in the whole lot.

Reaper, just judging from your character’s background and character sheet, Nikolai appears to have been the result of pure min-maxing. All of his best scores are tied directly to his disciplines and he is severely lacking in scores that make a great deal of sense for him. I would have never said anything, until you brought the other characters under the microscope. I’m not saying it was wrong to do, but you have to be careful, as people are touchy about characters.

Now. If I misunderstood your character, or your intentions, on whatever level, I am sorry. No hard feelings, lets just let it go.

*Kitana & Shalimar:*

I understand where you are coming from and I understand why you got offended. The problem with this medium is that it doesn’t convey emotion. I play in a few other games with you Shalimar, and have thus far enjoyed every minute of it.

Kitana, while I am in only one other game with you, I have no reason to think ill of you. I look forward to further gaming with you.

*Jemal & Festy*

All I can say is that I am sorry. I realize you put a lot of effort into your characters and I know you feel you are being punished for something you could not help. Again I am sorry. I wish there was more I could do.

*Vychtorya*

First and foremost I would like to say that no one has ANY hard feelings AT ALL toward you. I can say for certain that I do not. I hope this doesn’t ruin your taste for further online gaming.

Again, I’m sorry for the work you feel you wasted on character creation. I hope you can find a use for them somewhere.

If you want to continue on without me, or find another storyteller, by all means, I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## KitanaVorr

I'm truly sorry and I'm sorry for my role in all this.  I definitely let my temper get a hold of me near the end there and that probably didn't help at all.

No hard feelings anyone.  As far as I am concerned, bygones be bygones.

I had alot of fun in the IC thread while it lasted.  Thanks for being  patient, Ash.  

Cheers all.


----------



## Shalimar

I'm very sorry that it stopped being fun for you Ash, and apologize for what I have done to contribute to the situation.  I wish everyone the best in their future games.

I echo Kit's sentiments, Bygones.

I had a lot of fun while it lasted, good luck everyone.


----------



## reapersaurus

I believe I have the right to defend myself when being slandered.

Here's my posts, since I think it's been forgotten what I actually said:







			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Kitana - I'm kind of confused about your character currently.
> (All of this is IMO, and take the observations or ignore tham at your leaisure)*



I then went on to point out some very applicable and helpful things, I think.
Kitana, you responded that the things that didn't make sense to me were inspired by YOUR actual life and personality.

Next post, you mentioned things were slow on the weekends. 
I had some time on my hands, and interest in the game and our characters, so I posted a opinion about the rolls, to hopefully help explain the dice system in V:tM (many of us playing are new to the system):


> Let's look a bit further at the much-maligned Storyteller dice roll mechanic:
> 
> How good REALLY is 4 success rolls?



 After some ideas exchange, I made sure AGAIN that it was OK to discuss things:







> edit: is it OK to use Caitlyn's singing example during a discussion of Vampire rules, and how they have to be carefully approached to properly model what is going on in our party scene?



Then you questioned me about my character:







> oh, I have a question about Victoria was she supposed to be sort of equal in talent, etc, to Cate? That's the jist of what I got from your post. And if so, and she was already well-known and stuff with a bodyguard (you) does that mean that your face is a well-known face? A Murder-suicide with celebrities make news.



I responded:







> great questions.
> 
> Since you mentioned it, I'll address both.



then went on to mention that 9 dice as a human eclipses most vampires, and with a 21 human freebie point system, it makes the Embrace problematic from a character generation standpoint.
All very polite, non-critical, and shared discussion (but I still checked to be absolutely sure you were OK talking about rules and your character: "I'm not making ANY judgments about Caitlyn, or the character sheet - I'm just giving observations about how the game is impacted by rules decisions"

Then your next post kind of confused me.
In it, you posted that you didn't see how Caitlyn affects any of our characters whatsoever, and asked me more direct questions about Nikolai (that were mostly already answered in my story link, even).

I answered your questions, posted the link again, and even said: 







> (I appreciate the work for my character - discussion is always fun, and helps me flesh him out more in my mind)
> 
> I don't see, though, how you could be missing how Caitlyn's skills (and especially attributes) don't affect others in the party.



I went on to describe the ways that 2 Charismatic and Beautiful characters can impact each another's characters.

I'm pretty sure you completely forget me saying this next part (since you accused me of doing exactly this today):







> Please you guys, do whatever works in the game and is fun, I'm just responding to what you're saying for some dialogue on the weekend.
> Don't read this like I'm pushing for you to do or change anything.



You said: 







> And there are plenty of different ways to be charismatic and beautiful because everyone is unique.
> 
> Besides I originally got the impression that she was going to be seductive older woman archetype.



Then I replied:







> There's nothing wrong with 2 beautiful women, that's for damn sure LOL but when 2 people are playing the same instrument, there's only so many notes on the scale, if youknowwhatimean.
> 
> And I know you went over your clan ideas - I still don't get how she's anything but Toreador.
> I'm sorry. I'm being superficial, because I don't know you, and can't project well to get a good picture of a personality until I see the way you play you.. I mean her (Caitlyn) - damn, it's confusing that you put a lot of yourself in the character of Caitlyn.



to which you answered:







> Besides, it doesn't bother me at all if Vych is high up on charisma and appearance at all so why should it matter?
> 
> So unless it bothers Vych, let us play the characters we want to play and SHUSH =P reaper shush.



Later, Vych added her thoughts, playfully.

Then you kind of went off a bit on me, methinks:







> LOL okay my turn for a long rant. What? I have 2 for every 5 reaper puts in, hehe
> 
> Well for starters with all this talk, Cate is still human and she'll be human for a while as far as I know unless Ash has something in mind.
> 
> I'm also more of a roleplaying person and less of a dice person. So having dice to back me up is nice, but I'm counting more on my ability to invoke the correct response with my writing. I've never played Vampire before so I don't really understand what the problems are with it all.
> 
> Also about him talking to you about stats, he'd have better luck convincing you about yours than me cuz I'm not the wife and honestly he's got no pull over me whatsoever, hehe. Besides I've never had a chance to play Cate before whereas you've already played Vych before.
> 
> Anyway, if Ash thought there would be a problem, he would have said something before we were so invested in it all. So I'm guessing its all okee dokee.
> 
> I don't mind discussing characters and things like that but if he wants to truly be fair, he needs to bring up Vych as part of the "inequality" or whatever exactly he's referring to instead of basically saying "Vych can't do this because of Cate".
> 
> Well, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.



I responded, already censoring myself because I could tell your hackles were unnecessarily raising:







> you're more than welcome to rant, but that post left me a bit confused.
> I read it 3 times, but I just didn't get the gist of what you're saying.
> 
> not that that matters, mind you, i just thought i'd let you know....
> 
> I don't know of too many people that concentrate on the rules too much - maybe because they get in the way of the kinds of stories that people want to tell, and characters that people want to play?
> 
> I think I'm going to throw away the rulebook for this game.
> 
> I think the In-Character thread is quite stunning so far, so the rules don't matter - let's just keep with the creative writing -
> Kitana - the interspersing of very-appropriate lyrics with your characters thoughts was impressive.



you responded:







> Don't bug me about Cate's stats interfering with Vych's stats, bug Vych about her stats interfering with Cate's stats. You'll get more headway with her than you'll ever get with me.
> 
> I see your points, but I completely disagree with your end assessment about how Cate and Vych sharing similiar interests or attributes would be detrimental to the game in any way.
> 
> I don't mind discussing characters, but I dislike it when people complain that my choice of character might disrupt their fun.
> 
> Vych and Cate are unique characters.
> 
> And yes, if you stick your head in the rules too much you forget to enjoy the game so just enjoy it! And let the story take you where it wants to take you.



Hopefully everyone, including you, is beginning to see a pattern here.
I politely discuss things of a (IMO) undeniably helpful, engaging content, then you take things personally, or defensively, or something.

I don't know.... I don't see how you could possibly have taken what I posted and remembered it as you have today, magnifying it into a personal attack on you, with me being a hypocrite that is needing you to change your character?
huh?  

So at this point, I could see you were going the wrong direction with the day's vampire discussion, and bowed out.

You then replied to my well-taken response to Shalimar re: Sabrina with : 







> I think me, Jemal, Shalimar went the route of making our stats fit our character ideas rather than trying to figure out how to make them the most powerful.
> 
> I hope I didn't start all this by giving her the two 5's.



So here you began to paint me in your mind and words as a munchkin who only cares about stats with Nikolai, while simultaneously remembering that I called you on your two 5 scores.

I never did.


----------



## reapersaurus

So today Ash starts out questioning me about Nikolai and stats.
This would have been a welcome discussion, and after I looked up the Intelligence attribute tonight, I realized that while 1 dot doesn't hamper Nikolai like Ash believes (IMO), I realized that a high Int and not Wits would better fit Nikolai.

So I would have changed Nik's Intelligence to better suit him, and address Ash's concerns.

That's what reasonable discussion gets you - an exchange of ideas, and a better character in the end.

I'm confident that if I'd been able to explain to Ash how Nik is not a physical threat anymore, and my choice of skills, we would have gotten that straightened out with no worries.

Now that I've read that Ash has decided to back out, I'd politely ask that he reconsider.

I'm serious - Ash, if you read my last post, I'm confident that everyone can see that Kitana basically went off on me, and painted me unfairly, repeatedly magnifying the discussion needlessly.

Now I'm purposely phrasing it like that, because EVEN IF SHE DID I HOLD NOTHING AGAINST HER.

As she said earlier, she doesn't mind a little row (in character).

I don't mind having (out of character) passioned replies about a game that we all care about , even if I'm unfairly painted as a munchkin, attacking fiend who single-handedly destroys roleplay.  

Ash (and everyone) : for my part, I'm sorry about how this turned out.
I don't think Shalimar should be sorry for anything.

Ash - with proper distance, I hope you see that calling this game off is a little premature.
I'd hope that you change your mind about leading this group, as long as Kitana doesn't have a problem with playing in a game with me.

If so, I volunteer to bow out, since I'm obviously perceived as being the only problem, so if I'm gone, why wouldn't you continue for these guys?

Please don't leave them high and dry, unless there's some OTHER reason other than my stirring things up to stop the game.

What I'd really like to see is how you get the group of different vampires together to do anything as a coterie.

I have never seen that in V:tM, and would love if you could get them together and run them thru some scenes where they could work together to accomplish something that vampires care about.
I have no idea what that might be, but I've always been baffled about how and why vampires would become a coterie.

Just have Nikolai encounter The HeartBreaker tonight, and he won't have ammassed enough power yet to exact his revenge...


----------



## Festy_Dog

Well, I only post daily. 

This was a big read, with a surprising ending as well. I never expected the campaign to be called off, I guess this is the first one I've been in which officially has been. Let me just say that there've been campaigns IRL I've played which have developed arguments within, mostly that brought them to a screeching halt and new ones to be started a while after.

Should Ash find it that he can continue, and should Reaper and Kitana be kewl about things now thats great. But if this campaign can't be resurrected there's no hard feelings, I simply have a ready made character up my sleeve if another V:tM game pops up.

Cheers all.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

My decision to call the game off came from several directions:

1. Bickering. As I said before, I play these games for fun and to relieve stress. When it starts being a source of stress, I'm ready to stop.

2. I'd be lying if I said that my personal life wasn't at least a little bit responsible. I do most all of my surfing here at work. Now, things here at work have gotten very hectic lately. I took over this game with the clear intention of setting it up, an letting you guys take off with it. This obviously isn't going to happen.

3. I realized that this game might be at an end yesterday. I had a hard day at work and thought I would log in and see how the game was going to relax. Needless to say, what I found was far from relaxing. At that point I had to ask myself if this is the kind of game I want to run. Do I think things would get better? The answer to both was "No".

There are too many personality and playing-style conflicts and at best I believe the game would die off from lack of interest derived from hurt feelings and bruised egos.

The game simply leaves a bad taste in my mouth at this point.
I'll take it as my failure as a Storyteller and consider it an experience to learn from.

Again, I am very sorry, but I have no interest in continuing this game at this time. If you can find a new Storyteller, or work out a way to continue on your own, I wish you all the best of luck.


----------



## Catulle

Now, please feel free to tell me to go take a hike...

I've been lurking ever since Ashrem started the Vampire thread with some interest and I'm sorry things seem to have come to this stage; the marked distinction in tone between the IC and OOC threads commends your ability as roleplayers if nothing else.

I'm not of the opinion (at the moment) that the game as stands is within my capacity to fix, but should you wish to keep playing Vampire as a PbP, I'd be willing to run something.

One proviso that you should be aware of - I've been at this for a little while (tabletop and live for about 5 to 6 years and run both types of game), but my PbP experience is just as limited as my post count will indicate. If you'd be willing to teach, I'd be willing to learn, so to speak. If anybone's interested, just drop me a mail and we can chat more (or respond here, if that's cool with Ashrem?).

Regards and commiserations,

Barry


----------



## Festy_Dog

Well to start things back up we'd need a show of hands, I'd be more than happy to keep going, can't speak for the others of course.


On the matter of learning how to PbP, its very simple. Learning by example is the best method of teaching I find, so if you read up on some other games you'll probably get the idea.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Go ahead Catulle! Feel free.

I'm glad to see someone willing to step in so that these guys didn't waste their time building characters.

In fact, if you guys would have me, I may be interested in playing if you have an open slot. But only if there is an open slot. I wouldn't want one of these guys to get put out.

I originally wanted to *play* myself. I simply don't have the time, energy, or desire to actually run the game now, but I might be interested in actually playing.

Do you plan to take up my game where I left off, or starting over from scratch?

Bravo Catulle! I'm really glad to see someone willing to resurrect (or reincarnate?) this game.


----------



## Jemal

I'ld be in for playing, but I've also got an idea I wanted to try.. Co-runing the game.   
It would allow for two of us to tell the story, and would, in my opinion, help the game run more smoothly.  Both would have full storyteller abilities, and if we're able to co-ordinate (Not post happenings that are contradictory) it should run quite well.  You guys willing to be the guinea-pigs? (No insult intended)

BTW if you hadn't guess by now from my liberal usage of "We" and "Us", I'm volunteering to co-run it if Catulle would like.  I'm not quite up to running it by myself right now but I'ld like to get some experience at it, as well as keeping vampires on the board.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Well  if Jemal, Ash, Shali and Festy going to be in it, then I'll join as well if Catulle doesn't mind me being in there.

Also since my previous character was a Human, I'm not sure if that will fit in with whatever you two may be planning(if youre co-DMing Jemal).  I can always make a new one or modify Caitlyn to fit what you plan.

Also, Catulle, I don't have V:tM  experience if that's okay with you.  This was my first time playing it and i don't have the book either, I've been relying on Shalimar and Ash to guide me along.


----------



## Shalimar

if her voice teacher and brother are in, and one of my favorite gamers, count sabrina in.


----------



## Catulle

Well, it's good to see there's still interest in the game out there. Of course, we'd have to see what the others think of the idea, so if somebody can contact them, that'd be cool.

Jenal - I'm most intrigued by the offer. There is certainly potential in co-running the game, if we can get it right and coordinate sufficiently. It'd add a back-up angle to things as well, so colour me interested.

Ashrem - I don't see why you shouldn't join in as a player. This is kind of your party, after all. Space shouldn't be an issue, and with Jemal stepping out to co-run it's even less of a problem.

Kitana - Again, I don't foresee a problem with anything you mention. The lack of experience can actually be an asset in Vampire, believe it or not, and the human character can easliy provide great contrast to the others.

So far as the game set-up goes, that'd be pretty much up to the players; I'd be chiefly for keeping the characters, but shifting the city (if, as I suspect, more than one of you live in NY?) to avoid any portrayal pitfalls or stepping all over Ashrem's story ideas. Of course, if popular opinion goes the other way, I'm certainly open to suggestion. Jemal?

Anyhow, I'll leave it at that and see what the others reckon to it all. Please feel free to contact me with any queries.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Hey man, feel free to stomp my story ideas into the ground. Of course, you may have a hard time finding them, since I only had a few even vaguely formed.

If you are interested at all in playing in New York, make sure you download that document that Kitana is hosting. I put it together as a handout to the players and it already has a lot of the work done for you.

Having said that, I really don't care what city we play in.  

Damn.... now I have to build a character.  

I'm thinking a Tremere might be cool.


----------



## Krizzel

If you need more players I'll play - I don't want to displace any of the originals though.  I'd been following the game a little bit since I wanted to see how it was run.  I don't really like the WoD that much from my past experience (not a big fan of their rules  ), but what Ashrem was doing looked pretty cool.

I like the idea of the city with a power vacuum where all the vampires are trying to claim their place in the hierarchy.  It doesn't really have to be NYC though - could be any decently large city.  Heck if you want to avoid continuity problems or stepping on what Ashrem had planned you could always set it in 'Gotham' city, meaning an alternate NYC.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Should I build my character based off the guidelines I previously set, or do you have your own rules Catulle?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Krizzel said:
			
		

> *Heck if you want to avoid continuity problems or stepping on what Ashrem had planned you could always set it in 'Gotham' city, meaning an alternate NYC. *




Good idea. But, like I said, don't worry about any plans I might have had. 

If I ever decide to run Vampire again, I'm doing it in the Victorian Age.


----------



## Jemal

Hmm.. Toronto!!!  Or Vancouver.
I wanna see a canadian game on here... But then again I'm biased.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Good idea. But, like I said, don't worry about any plans I might have had.
> 
> If I ever decide to run Vampire again, I'm doing it in the Victorian Age. *




Oh! I'm a Victorian Age buff, so if you want some help or want a player for that, think of me!


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Oh! I'm a Victorian Age buff, so if you want some help or want a player for that, think of me! *




Will do. I just got Victorian Age: Vampire and London by Night in the mail yesterday.

Anyway, it want be happening anytime soon.


----------



## Catulle

Woah! That's a whole load of rapid responses. Cool. I'll bullet-point my stream-of-consciousness for ease of translation;

1) Looks like sticking with New York is a bright idea. Both from reviewing the thread up to this point in more detail, and gut instinct. I've been reading it over as I sit here, and I just like it more and more as time goes on.

2) If somebody could forward me Kitana's document, that's be great. Or post a link. Something I'm doing is causing me hassle finding it.

3) As I see it, we have 2 storytellers (myself and Jemal) and 4 players for sure (Festy, Ashrem, Salimar and Kitana) who are up for keeping going. I'd say there shouldn't be a huge issue with Krizzel playing, but bear in mind my inexperience here, so don't think I'm setting anything in stone here. Reaper and Vychtorya we could do with hearing from before anything gets finalised as well.

4) That said, inferring from the lessons of the past, it may be wise to keep the details of characters' sheets 'out of the public eye' so to speak - between the Storytellers and the Player in each case. It could also go some way towards preserving the mystery inherent to a horror game. Thoughts on this?

5) So far as my preferences for character creation go; straight out of the Vampire rulebook by preference with anything over 3 dots in terms of abilities, backgrounds or disciplines should be justified fully (and discussed), anything at 5 in terms of attributes. Clan-wise the 6 Camarilla Clans (Brujah, Malkavian, Nosferatu, Toreador, Tremere and Ventrue) by preference. Caitiff I must confess a fondness for as well. Age-wise, I'd have said up to 10 years as Kindred (if you've only just arrived in NYC, otherwise see Ashrem's guidelines) at the most.

6) As with everything else I say, I can be swayed by reason.

7) Nothing I say at this stage goes for Jemal... He may vehemently disagree with me; I'm just keeping some momentum here, essentially.

As ever, feel free to contact me with ideas/feedback/screaming abuse... 

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Jemal

sounds goood.
So would we be having them create all new characters then, if we're wanting to keep the mystery?  I'ld suggest a kinda combo.. Let them change their characters a little, but instead of posting the new/updated characters, e-mail them to the appropriate person.
EH?


----------



## Shalimar

I'll stick with Sabrina as is.  No need to change her.  She is exactly what I want, whether or not anyone else knows her stats, I don't care, she isn't going to be a schemer or anything at least for a while.


----------



## Catulle

I'd have suggested an armistice, of sorts. If folks ~want~ to make changes, they should feel free to chat with us about doing so. If they like them as is, then more power to them... I'm sure there's nothing we can't work through, in any event.

Regards,

Barry

[Edit - which, on reflection, is almost exactly what Jemal said:- repeat to yourself, Barry "I am an idiot..."]


----------



## reapersaurus

I will let Vych know there are people wanting to continue playing.

I want to play.


----------



## Catulle

Hey folks,

I think we're getting things back together (and darned fast, too...) as I write - I'd also go as far as to say we've got room for you too, Krizzel (get in touch with Jemal and me if you're still interested). We'd love to hear from you too, Ashrem...

Cheers,

Barry

[Edit - Vodka does not help Barry's grammar any]


----------



## Krizzel

Yeah I'm still interested.  Working on a character right now - I'll email you what I've got probably sometime tomorrow.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle [Home]

Yea, I'm still in. 

I'll try to have you a character by tomarrow.


----------



## Shalimar

Whats the status on this?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I just had a major project dumped in my lap here at work.

However, I got most of my character finished yesterday and should have him polished by the end of the day.


Question:

Are we going to pick up where we left off, or are we starting over fresh?


----------



## Shalimar

oops, sorry Ash, I didn't mean you, I meant the game in general.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *oops, sorry Ash, I didn't mean you, I meant the game in general. *




I know. I think we where just waiting on characters so I figured I would drop that tid-bit.


----------



## Catulle

Thanks for keeping us abreast of things, folks 

We should be ready to go live again shortly - just conflabbing between Jemal and myself plus the two new characters to integrate, and I think we're set.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Check the attached file for my barebones character. I still have the Q&A to do and there is a typo, but you guys can get the idea.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

[EDIT] Didn't work.... see below for my character's portrait.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Ok..... here it is:


----------



## KitanaVorr

oooo! I like it!


----------



## Jemal

I like it too.  As for where we are, it should be going pretty soon.  If Catulle has no problem with it, I'ld say you guys can return to RPing at the ball.  There's like a 99% certainty that we'll be continueing with a storyline similar to what Ash set up.  Once we're ready to advance it either myself or Catulle will be able to post the prince calling everyones attention.

Also I think the best way to integrate the new characters (TO my best information Cate's the only non-vampire, so it shouldn't be too hard) is to just have them allready there, like all the vamps in New York.

Any problems with any of that, Catulle?  I'ld suggest you be the 'main' storyteller, so you have final say, b/c I'm quite busy right now (I seriosly have to stop joining+creating games!) and don't think I can devote the time it needs to be the main DM.  I'll still be around helping out, though.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Jemal said:
			
		

> * b/c I'm quite busy right now (I seriosly have to stop joining+creating games!) *




Kit remains silent but is wiggling her eyebrows and giving Jemal 'the look'.


----------



## Shalimar

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Kit remains silent but is wiggling her eyebrows and giving Jemal 'the look'.
> 
> *




I'll see 'the look' and and raise you a silly.


----------



## Krizzel

Okay well I sent my character too.  Haven't done the Q&A yet either, but I think that'll be the easier part.  Need to find a picture but that will take me hours of looking ;p so not right now.


----------



## Catulle

Thanks a lot for your patience, folks.

I do agree with Jemal on pretty much all of what he said (I actually think we're 100% certain now). If people want to go back in character for a time while we bring things up to speed with the new characters and introduce them in-game, then that's all fine with me. It'll let us all get a handle on the NPCs as well...

Just promise to be gentle with us, okay? 

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Catulle

Kitana - It's worth noting that Sabrina has Blush of Health and a rather high Humanity score, which makes her only slightly cool to the touch and pretty 'ordinary' looking (probably not worthy of note from a casual touch). Sorry for the intrusion...

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Kitana - It's worth noting that Sabrina has Blush of Health and a rather high Humanity score, which makes her only slightly cool to the touch and pretty 'ordinary' looking (probably not worthy of note from a casual touch). Sorry for the intrusion...
> 
> Barry *




Yep Shalimar pointed that out to me also.  hehe

EDIT:

Oh what does Blush of Health do exactly?  I thought it only made Vampires look more human.  I didn't know that it also made them warmer or something.  I'm not familiar with all the merits stuff.


----------



## Catulle

From the revised V:tM rulebook FYI:-

Blush of Health (2 pt. Merit)
You look more hale and hearty in appearance than other vampires, allowing you to blend with human society much more easily. You still retain the color of a living mortal and your skin feels only slightly cool to the touch.

Her high humanity score also allows her to will herself to appear more human for a scene; flushing her skin and drawing breath.

Is that useful to you?

Barry

[Edit - I've posted as a Storyteller on the IC thread; how's the style? I've tried to stick to Ash's format for ease of reading.]


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *From the revised V:tM rulebook FYI:-
> 
> Blush of Health (2 pt. Merit)
> You look more hale and hearty in appearance than other vampires, allowing you to blend with human society much more easily. You still retain the color of a living mortal and your skin feels only slightly cool to the touch.
> 
> Her high humanity score also allows her to will herself to appear more human for a scene; flushing her skin and drawing breath.
> 
> Is that useful to you?
> 
> Barry
> 
> [Edit - I've posted as a Storyteller on the IC thread; how's the style? I've tried to stick to Ash's format for ease of reading.] *




Yep thanks!  I'll probably have tons of questions for you on how everything works like I did for Ash.  And I like the style  you're doing great!


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Ok. Where are you guys?


----------



## Catulle

Right behind you 

On a more serious note, my net connection in becoming iffy in about half an hour for the next 60 hours - hopefully Jemal can pick up the slack and keep things ticking over untill I get back from (Old) York. I will have a laptop with me, so might be able to squeeze in the odd post but don't depend on it. 

If you could keep the IC stuff going between yourselves, that'd be cool, too.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Jemal

K.  I'll leave the Prince in your hands Barry, so you can start the 'thing' at your own leisure.  Until then I'll play around with some of the other peeps. 
So if anyone wants to interact with any NPCs or such, go ahead..


----------



## Shalimar

Well Sabrina is going to go for a walk with her big brother.  Though I think thewalk maybe a way to get her fed and avoid causing a scene.


----------



## Shalimar

Just to be clear on this: Sabrina has only fed once(it was 2 days ago, thats why she was so low on blood), when she was embraced and thats it.  She has repressed the memory and just has feelings of fear around Elizabeth.

She is really confused as to why she can't keep anything she drinks down and why she can't stop being thirsty.  She has tried to drink water milk soda and juice and it all came back up almost immediately.

She probably will think drinking blood is icky(kooties), but not understand that it is hurting the people when they sound like it feels so good.


----------



## reapersaurus

probably good to clarify that again, Shalimar, and I gotta say, that is an entirely cool in-deep approach to the character you're taking.

I kinda wish that Nikolai could roleplay with Sabrina, but I don't see how the character concepts allow for much interaction?


----------



## Catulle

Wait and see, grasshopper. wait and see... 

Otherwise, are you cool with running the scene for Sabrina and her brother, Jemal?

Regards,

Barry


PS - I'm back. Hurray!


----------



## Shalimar

If its ok with you I'd rather you did it Catulle.  Its something that is intergral to her character, and will affect her for the rest of the Chronicle.  You sound like you have a lot of Vampire :TM experience and I think this might be very challenging.


----------



## Catulle

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *If its ok with you I'd rather you did it Catulle.  Its something that is intergral to her character, and will affect her for the rest of the Chronicle.  You sound like you have a lot of Vampire :TM experience and I think this might be very challenging. *




Sure thing. If Jemal keeps playing Jemal for the scene, I'll worry about 'framing' and the like. It'll keep reactions and such as genuine as possible.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

[reapersaurus] Ash - are you going to copy n paste your character into the Rogue's Gallery thread?
Q & A?
Background?

I'm going to take your recommendation somewhat and switch Nikolai's Intelligence and Wits scores. The high Wits score was an older character concept, when I was trying to emulate Jafar from Aladdin.


----------



## Catulle

I'll field this one, if it's okay...

I'm happy to have character information stored offline (i.e. kept up to date by myself, Jemal and the player in question) to maintain the mystery of the setting. Most of you folks (everyone but Ash if I recall correctly) didn't have the chance to not post them, though, so if you want to take down some/all character information that's fine (just keep Jemal and I informed). If you want to keep it up, that's fine, too. It's totally down to individual comfort zones, really.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I kinda like the mystery currently surrounding Gabriel.


----------



## Valara

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *probably good to clarify that again, Shalimar, and I gotta say, that is an entirely cool in-deep approach to the character you're taking.
> 
> I kinda wish that Nikolai could roleplay with Sabrina, but I don't see how the character concepts allow for much interaction? *




Like i said earlier, this is the part of the whole V:TM that I think is the most interesting.  It's also the part that is the most glossed over, the coming to terms with being forced to drink blood.  If I hadn't done this, I would have tried to go the route that Kit is going, because I think it would make a good chronicle.

Well if anyone wants to approach Sabrina, they can, she would love to meet everyone.  She would be nice to everyone equally, unless they do something to scare her.  So again feel free to strike up a friendship, or whatever you want, just be aware, that she really is only a child, and probably can't help anyone in doing or planning anything.  I could definitely see everyone being very interested in her.  She is something no one has ever seen before and at the very least it would probably make them curious about her and what she can do.

If for no other reason then as a mascot she would probably be kept around, she's likeable, naive, innocent, friendly, a breath of humanity in an otherwise dying decrept social structure.

EDIT: ITS me, Shalimar, this is justt he account I have for the Star Wars Iconics Game.


----------



## reapersaurus

hmm....   fascinating, Shalimar.
That is one way of looking at Sabrina.

There are more ways for characters to perceive her, though.

Can I editorialize a little here?
(too late if not...    )
It seems that the approach that some are taking to this Chronicle is that being a Vampire is a benefit - like you get all these kewl powerz. <-- nudge and wink joke to make point
I understand wanting to play it that way, but I want to get across that that's not the way I see it, or how I want to roleplay Nikolai.

He ONLY agreed to be a vampire because he was desperate to obtain the power necessary to actually present a credible threat to the Monster.
I hope I got across somewhat in his Q & A that it just about killed his humanity to willingly become exactly what he hates.

Nikolai, therefore, would view Sabrina as an utter abomination.

Shalimar - is it OK to roleplay that? (I haven't already, out of fear of upsetting you (or others).


----------



## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I kinda like the mystery currently surrounding Gabriel.  *



Well, mystery is one thing, but what _I_ don't know is how I should be reacting in-character to another Tremere.
I've never played in a Chronicle that had duplicates of clan characters.

So I am inexperienced in relating to another in-clan PC.
I don't know how Nikolai is expected to, or would, react to a classic ladder-climbing, Council-bound Tremere.
The fact that you made another Tremere kind of threw me, Ash, as well as him having very similar attributes and powers (sound familiar?). 

Basically, Ash - what are you getting at with making him a similar Tremere, ability wise, but very different personality-wise to Mikolai?
Could you give me some info to work with so I can understand what you're planning?


----------



## Shalimar

> He ONLY agreed to be a vampire because he was desperate to obtain the power necessary to actually present a credible threat to the Monster.
> 
> Nikolai, therefore, would view Sabrina as an utter abomination.
> 
> Shalimar - is it OK to roleplay that? (I haven't already, out of fear of upsetting you (or others).




It's fine with me if thats the way Nikolai feels, and acts.  He is yours, I wouldn't want to tell you how to play him, and I would be more upset if you changed his personality just to suit me, then if you played him as if he abhorred her.  I would rather you do what would make you happy.

That said, she wouldn't understand why he hated her, even if he bothered to explain it.  She doesn't hate anyone(Elizabeth either, at least until its explained what happened) and can' t really understand the feeling.  Even if he did explain it to her, she would think he was being silly, she had no control over it anymore then being born with blue eyes and freckles.

You play him as you see fit, and I'll play her as I think a child would react to the world of darkness.  As a matter of fact, I think it would be pretty funny for her to be afraid of vampires, despite the fact she is one and more powererful then some.  Images of the bogey man can seem worse then they really are, then again maybe not.


----------



## reapersaurus

Whew!
Glad you support my approach to Nikolai, Shal.

But Nikolai actually wouldn't hate Sabrina - he would probably feel more sympathy, or pity for the horror her life has become.

He would more than likely (I'm thinking it thru here) feel anger towards the sick m&^%-f^er that Embraced a kid.

Nik's thought ballons: "As if mudering and corrupting anything that's Good isn't enough for those scum, they take innocence from a CHILD??!!!
They should be wiped from the Earth as the plague that they are..."

Yes, if you noticed Nik hating vampires, he does have some self-worth Issues....   LOL


----------



## Shalimar

> But Nikolai actually wouldn't hate Sabrina - he would probably feel more sympathy, or pity for the horror her life has become.
> 
> He would more than likely (I'm thinking it thru here) feel anger towards the sick m&^%-f^er that Embraced a kid.
> 
> Nik's thought ballons: "As if mudering and corrupting anything that's Good isn't enough for those scum, they take innocence from a CHILD??!!!
> They should be wiped from the Earth as the plague that they are..."




I am thinking from everyone's reactions that madam Elizabeth is in for a bad decade or two unless she wants to relocate.  Even gnats can be annoying if there are enough of them.

AS a matter of fact, I can't wait to here this first explination of what is up from Jemal.  I think she might throw a temper tantrum because he is scaring her, depends how he tells her, or on how he shows her if he goes that route.  I don't expect a potence powered rage would be high on Qadir's list of funny things to laugh off.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> Basically, Ash - what are you getting at with making him a similar Tremere, ability wise, but very different personality-wise to Mikolai?
> Could you give me some info to work with so I can understand what you're planning? *




No prob. 

Why did I make a Tremere? Mainly because I love the clan. Most of the other clans have already been represented. Our Storytellers said they only wanted Camarilla characters, so my two favorite clans (Tzimisce and Lasombra) where right out.  That also precludes the Gangrel now. I hate Nosferatu, so that wasn't a real choice either. The Tremere are my favorite of the Camarilla clans. 

Like you have already said, the difference between our characters are night and day. Comparing our character sheets (the one you previously posted), I don't see a lot of overlap.

I have slightly better physical stats, though you have a slightly higher Dex.

There is a lot of difference in our various skills.

As far as Disciplines go, you went the road of Auspex, I took Dominate. Thaumaturgy is the same, but we share only one common rituel.

Merits and Flaws are completly different.

I don't think there will be a problem. The only thing we have in common is Thamaturgy 3, high willpower, low humanity, and clan.

Our character's personalities and goals are VERY different. You hate what you have become, Gabriel sees it as an oportunity to start over. That doesn't mean he likes it really, but he has come to terms with it. I will say that it is starting to get to him recently though.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

As for how you are going to react to me? It really depends on your character.

As far as you know right now, Gabriel is a Sabbat vampire. He bears the Mark of the Betrayer. 

I gather from Catulle's description that you don't already know Gabriel, so you havn't heard about his mark. That would be odd though. Word of a Tremere with the mark would spread like wildfire throughout the clan in a city.

Still, your character seems to be pretty distant from the rest of the clan, so it might not be so odd after all.

That said, if you aren't closely tied to your clan, aside from the Mark, you would probably treat him like any other vampire. Given the Mark though, you might distrust him more than other vamps. Or you might not because you have no real allegience to your clan or sect.

However, you have been told by your sire that all Sabbat vampires are devil worshipping monsters, so that isn't going to help much.


----------



## reapersaurus

Right - I am not playing Nikolai as an outcast - he ingratiates himself into a situation, even as Council-dominated clan as Tremere would have SOME variation of personalities, ESPECIALLY in Aislinn's Chantry (as you know from New York by Night).

So he knows what's going on - and if it's OK with you, I'll roleplay the same thing I'll ask you now:
"How can a Marked Tremere be passing himself off as a respected member of Tremere society?

Unless I misunderstand the Flaw, than Gabriel is the lowest class citizen possible. Him showing up to clan events (much less try to lead?!) would be the height of rudeness.
Wouldn't he be the Tremere people spit at, basically?
Or is that not how that large of Flaw works?


----------



## Catulle

The way I see the Gabriel/Nikolai thing:-

As a Marked Tremere, Aisling's been pretty damn cautious about letting Gabriel out of her sight - he'll have been taken to meet Qadir, David and Calebros (so the city's rulers aren't going to have him killed straight off) and Valentine (who actively tries to keep his finger on the pulse) as well as informed him of the other Tremere in the city. Tonight is likely his first entry to New York Elysia on his own, having been sent to meet Aisling there. Unfortunately, it would appear that she's been delayed...

Nikolai's likely heard that Aisling's been busy of late with ~something~ in the Fifth Chantry (location unknown), and has been taking instruction (intermittently) from Regent Estevez of the Maupassant Room Chantry - this intermittent contact has allowed him to branch out, and start forming contacts with people such as Qadir al-Asmai...

The "Eh? What?!?" reaction would seem totally realistic (the Mark of the Betrayer ~is~ infamous in the House and Clan for a very good reason. Yes, it sets a severe social stigma ~among Tremere~, outsiders, of course, can't detect the sigil at all. (A good reason for Gabriel to start having more to do with non-Tremere(and one the Tremere have likely realised, given the other Flaw...)). In either event, please roleplay it out, but remember Elysium. 

Oh, and Ashrem - Gabriel's on 7 blood at present.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## reapersaurus

So, the more I look at this, the more confused I get.

Gabriel is Blood Bound (huge Flaw) to the Tremere Elder Council.
Meaning, he has no real will of his own, IF his choices are different from the Elder's.
In addition, he has the Betrayer Flaw, which is one point away from being Bloodhunted-severity.
How does this impact Gabriel's actions in-game?

If there's not much Elder presence here, than it would be lessened, of course.
But the Betrayer thing (I thought ) would preclude him from ever showing his face in Tremere society.
The taint would be so bad, he couldn't really participate in vampire politics...  could he?

Seperate but related question:
How are you playing the other clan's knowledge of this huge Flaw?
If Nikolai (or any other Tremere) didn't agree with Gabriel being involved in something, could they (would they) just point out the Mark, and have Gabriel removed from consideration?

BTW: Nikolai doesn't want much to do with Tremere politicking, unless it can increase the blood powers he brings to bear: perhaps a preferred position to learn exotic, powerful Rituals, or Disciplines (which I'm not aware of that kind of Tremere position).

What explains Gabriel being tolerated in New York?

These questions I was hoping were going to be answered by your Q & A, Ash, but I guess you're not 'publishing' any of Gabriel's background?


----------



## Shalimar

err Ahh,  PAGING JEMAL....beep beep beep.  Your wanted on the set.  

ah, Can someone take over for him in the interim?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

All of that is in my background, but I'll hit on some of it for you.

First of all, Gabriel is indeed a slave to his clan. More or less anyway.

By Aisling's blessing, he has been formally accepted into the clan. However, because of the Mark, he was forced to be blood bound entirelly instead of the usuel on step.

Now the blood bind doesn't mean he is a mindless slave, but he has a loyalty stronger than most all other Tremere.

Another thing is that the Mark doesn't necesarily mean he is an outcast. Aisling, being the head of the clan in New York has officialy declared Gabe as a member of clan Tremere and that the Mark forgiven. Anybody who doesn't respect that defies Aisling and therefore the clan. So offically, the Mark can't be held against him. In the real world however, he has a hard time earning the trust of his clanmates and he is VERY closely watched.

Up to this point, Gabe has been extremely loyal to the clan. Other than the Mark, noone has a reason to not trust him.

*How are you playing the other clan's knowledge of this huge Flaw?*

I'm not. The Tremere do not share interclan knowledge with outsiders for fear that it could be used against the clan as a whole. Nobody knows but the other Tremere. To inform another vampire of another clan could be seen as an act against the clan.

It is mentioned several times in several books that the vampires of clan Tremere fight with and backstab each other on a regular basis. However, they are a unified front against the other clans. Aisling would much rather have a Marked Tremere in a position of political power than a vampire of another clan. Remember, she can read Gabriel's mind, and the fact that he acts as her apprentice gives her plenty of opportunities. He has never given her a reason to distrust him.

In fact, the moment Aisling first saw Gabe, she tried to kill him just because of the Mark. She has had a leash on him ever since and has actually taken a liking to him because of the loyalty he has shown and the fact he excepts the blood bond and doesn't resent the clan. Gabe's loyalty to Aisling and the clan is real. The bond is really unnecessary.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Wow  it all sounds really good, Ash.  I'm liking Gabriel more and more.  He should be an interesting character to watch along the way 

Hey I have a question or two (what a surprise hehe)

What is the betrayer mark? Can anyone other than vampires see it?  Also, what does being blood bonded mean?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Back in the 1300's the two sects (Camarilla and Sabbat) rose from the ashes of the Anarch revolt.

Only two clans, the Tzimisce and Lasombra went over to the Sabbat as a whole. However, all of the clans had individuels who deffected to the Sabbat. Those vampires began known as Antitribu (Anti-tribe).

For example. Clan Ventrue as a clan belongs to the Camarilla. A Ventrue vampire who defects to (or is embraced into) the Sabbat is called a Ventrue Antitribu.

Likewise, a Lasombra who defects to the Camarilla is called a Lasombra Antitribu.

Now... the Mark.

Like the other clans, the Tremere had their own share of defectors. The Tremere of the Camarilla put a curse on their Antitribu brothers. The curse is the Mark. Only Camarilla Tremere can see the Mark. It is invisible to all other vampires and mortals.

So.. It boils down to the fact that Gabriel bares the Mark of a Tremere antitribu. Why? Good question.  

It gets even more interesting. No more Tremere Antitribu (also called House Goratrix) exist. Sometime around 2000, the entirety of the Sabbat's Tremere population was destroyed. Presumably, Gabriel's sire went up in smoke with the rest. Gabriel's allegiance to the Camarilla is all that saved him.

Now. This isn't common IC knowledge. Nobody knows what happened to the Tremere Antitribu. All the Camarilla knows is that Tremere vampires with the Mark have all disappeared. Well... accept one.  

In reality, any Tremere Antitribu that defected to the Camarilla (extremely rare) would bare the Mark and wouldn't have been wiped out with the rest of the Sabbat Tremere.


----------



## reapersaurus

I'm surprised the blood bond is not covered in that Camarilla book you have, Kit.
When you feed once from a vampire, you have intense feelings of closeness towards them, due to the incredible feelings that the blood causes.
This does not cause you to not be able to act against them, it should just be roleplayed.
When you feed twice from the same vampire, you have such intense feelings towards them, you must succeed at somer kind of Willpower roll? to do them any harm or act against them.

Three times is blood bound, and you can't act against them, or something (I forget the particulars, this is from memory).

Ash - could you help me understand how those are flaws then?
You make a Tremere that agrees wholeheartedly with the Elders, so Bloodbound Flaw isn't really a hindrance, then you have him a pet of the most powerful Tremere  in New York, and a favored, accepted status?. How does the Mark really affect you if no other clan can act on it?
I thought you told ME that Flaws shouldn't be dodged (so to speak) (or was that the clan weakness?).
Then you make a PC that is only "limited" in his relationships to Tremere that don't mind making waves AND aren't in the inner circle of the clan (since the Elders "control" Gabriel anyway).

That sounds to me like the only vampire in New York that can possibly be affected by your 4 point Flaw (huge, in game terms) is Nikolai?!   LOL

Tell me I'm off here, cause I am not getting how this limits your character (and since you're not revealing your background, it's hard to see how it fits in properly, of course).
I just think it's ironic, since you didn't want me taking a Merit (costing me points) to dodge the Tremere clan weakness, yet you took a Flaw (gaining points) that nullified the clan weakness.
On a side note: would a Tremere character actually get full points for taking a Flaw of Bloodbound, when he's already partially-bloodbound thru his clan weakness?

(the above are just my thoughts-o-the-morning... off to work!)


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

*sigh*

I fail to see how I am dodging my flaws.

*The Mark*
Every Tremere I meet will instantly have a distrust of me, assuming they don't attack on sight. If a Tremere from somewhere other than NY encounters me, they will attack first and ask questions later. I tend to think of this as a bad thing, hence - flaw.

*Bound to Council*
If I understand your post correctly, you are saying that by fully binding myself and in effect making my clan weakness three times worse than it already is, I am sidestepping the weakness all together.

There is a difference between role-playing within your clan weakness and buying a merit that gets rid of it. 

Gabriel is a slave to his clan. If he disagrees with his superiors, he is screwed. He is a tool. A machine of the clan. He doesn't even really have the option to disagree. I tend to think of this as a bad thing, hence - flaw.



> You make a Tremere that agrees wholeheartedly with the Elders, so Bloodbound Flaw isn't really a hindrance




I did? Let me give you a simple example to illustrate my character. I am VERY loyal to my country. Do I always agree with congress? BWAHAHAHAHAA!!......no

There is a difference between loyalty and agreement.



> pet of the most powerful Tremere in New York, and a favored, accepted status




Accepted. Not favored. Aisling likes him, but she still watches him like a hawk. He is not treated with any favoritism.



> That sounds to me like the only vampire in New York that can possibly be affected by your 4 point Flaw (huge, in game terms) is Nikolai?!




What about the other 10 or 12 Tremere in the city?

All of that is far more than your character currently knows. If you want any more details, you are going to have to find out IC.


----------



## Jemal

OK, first off.. 
PLEASE STOP THE ARGUING!
This is EXACTLY how the game died the first time around.  It starts off as people doing what they feel is 'helping', other person responds, and in the end looks something like this:
"This is just getting past your flaws.  Plus that part doesn't work."
"no it's not, I'm doing this, and I've changed that."
"Yes it is, and you should do this.."
No
yes
no
yes
etc
GAME OVER
(BTW - that's not a good thing)

Second - Shal, I haven't been posting as much recently b/c this week is bad luck, so I have to keep my count down a bit.  I'll go do it now, but I probably won't post again for another day.

Third - I think it's best if catulle remains in over-all control, as i have little experience in V:TM.  I'm more here for my PbP experience, and unless I have some different ideas, etc, than what he's doing (Or I happen to see the thread needs updating, and I'm good for it at that time), I'll just leave it up to him (will keep talking to him/you here and IC and via e-mail, though.


----------



## Shalimar

Jemal said:
			
		

> *
> Second - Shal, I haven't been posting as much recently b/c this week is bad luck, so I have to keep my count down a bit.  I'll go do it now, but I probably won't post again for another day.
> 
> Third - I think it's best if catulle remains in over-all control, as i have little experience in V:TM.  I'm more here for my PbP experience, and unless I have some different ideas, etc, than what he's doing (Or I happen to see the thread needs updating, and I'm good for it at that time), I'll just leave it up to him (will keep talking to him/you here and IC and via e-mail, though. *




Okie doke, thanks for the heads up.  Totally understand Time constraints.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Jemal said:
			
		

> *OK, first off..
> PLEASE STOP THE ARGUING!
> *




You are absolutely right. 

The storyteller has my background and my character sheet. If he has a problem, I will change it no questions asked.

If another player has a problem with my character.... well.... sorry. Take it up with the Storytellers.

If anyone, as a player, doesn't understand my character, look at it this way, neither does your character. Find out the answer to your questions through IC discussion and role playing.

I'm more than happy to entertain legitimate questions about my character. Calling me a hypocrite when you don't have all the facts will not be entertained. It will be hence forth ignored.

I think it best to leave the character critiquing to the Storytellers.

Sorry all. This is the last thing I'll say on this subject. My sincere apologies. It will not happen again.


----------



## reapersaurus

jeez, guys -  relax.
don't yell.

I'm just trying to understand what Nikolai's knowledge of Ash's character is.

In case anyone doesn't understand me, let me be clear:
I am NOT an expert at Vampire.
I do NOT know all the inter- and intra-dealings of the clan(s), and more importantly, how they will be approached in this story.

I am asking for advice from you, and others, in how to approach your character, since I _don't understand how your specific Merits, Flaws, and un-disclosed background_ will affect my character.

These OOC questions are a substitute for In- Character actions:
specifically, from the way that I read it, Nikolai would be viewing Gabriel as a traitor who should be immediately killed.
That was my immediate reaction to seeing your very-high Betrayer Flaw.
In my understanding of the game, there is *no such thing* as a Betrayer Tremere living amongst "loyal" Tremere.
Therefore, as the only Tremere in attendence at the party, I am trying to decide what his reaction to the Mark would be.
As far as I'm aware, it would be his responsibility to act, as any good Tremere would, against the Betrayer trying to pass himself off as a normal, clan-loyal Tremere.

So you've put me in a bind here, Ash, and the only personal point I'll say is, I don't appreciate you using all this background knowledge of the history of the clans and their social ramifications. I wish you'd kept it simple.
But now I have to figure out what a somewhat-new Tremere, fairly new-to-town would do to a new Betrayer in town.
I don't understand how Aislinn (who Nikolai has studied with her Chantry to learn the Ritual) wouldn't inform her Tremere of this spectacular and unprecendented of vampire in town.

So here's my quandry: 
Do I have Nikolai act as a typical Tremere would and act against Gabriel upon learning he's Sabbat slime in the midst of the city's best and brightest?
Or just let it go, so as not to cause waves?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

React however you want to.

I do think that all the acknowledged Tremere in the city would have at least heard of Gabe before. It seams reasonable that Aisling would have passed the word around to keep the other Tremere from killing him on sight.

I guess it depends on how much Nikolai trusts Aisling's judgement. *shrug*


----------



## Catulle

I think the prime reaction should be in the roleplaying, here. Tension is expected. What Nikolai knows is:-

1) The High Regent, Aisling, has been absent for a little while, occupied with some matter the details which the clan, at large (though perhaps the Regents) are not aware.

2) Eugenio Estevez (Nikolai's regent) hasn't told him anything out of the ordinary.

3) A Tremere with the Mark of the Betrayer is in the room, as is the Prince, the Sheriff, other Kindred and at least one mortal.

4) It's Elysium.

Can we please close this subject for a moment and get on with the game. If you want to continue this with me (and each other) through e-mail, that's fine too, but I think it's taking up a little too much bandwidth right now.

Regards,

Barry


[Edit - I haven't given folks experience, have I? Everybody can have 1 more, except Max and Vych, who can have 2. Sound reasonable?]


----------



## reapersaurus

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I do think that all the acknowledged Tremere in the city would have at least heard of Gabe before. It seams reasonable that Aisling would have passed the word around to keep the other Tremere from killing him on sight. *



I think it's reasonable to assume that Aisling would have warned other Tremere, as well....
That's the way I'll roleplay it - It's too dangerous to roleplay it that Nikolai is completely surprised that the Betrayer is at the party (and besides, I "want to react" that way).

Re: Eugenio Estevez :
could someone email me info about my character's regent, if there is some (or just direct me to New York by Night, I can read it)?
I have no info about him, or the Chantry, etc - am I supposed to make up all that? (just want to know what my responsibilities are in this regard)

edit: Ash, you mentioned there were 10-12 Tremere in NY?
I thought you mentioned that there were around 30 vampires in NY... how do those numbers work out?

re XP:
can you use XP whenever you want, to enhance your vampiric powers?
Or must it be between scenes, or whatever those breaks are called.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> edit: Ash, you mentioned there were 10-12 Tremere in NY?
> I thought you mentioned that there were around 30 vampires in NY... how do those numbers work out?
> *




Yea. I did say that. NY by Night is a little wishy-washy on that point. It says that there aren't that many Kindred (I got the impression it was about 30 or so), but it also says that about 10 or so of them are Tremere. I know the majority of the population can't be Tremere.

That was my mistake.

Perhaps our Storyteller could give us better numbers.


----------



## Catulle

Hiya folks,

The book indicates 'over 200' vampires in one part of the book, far less in others;

To keep things sane, we'll assume there's a 'native population' of about 30 (30 Kindred with Status, that is...). Obviously, the PCs aren't part of this 30 figure (nobody has status... yet) though their sires generally are, nor are Sabbat (hiding) anarchs (come and go, for the most part) or transients (independents, temporary residents, those that don't come to Elysium, those that have yet to announce themselves). Sound reasonable?

I'd pencil in about a dozen Tremere, of which three run the clan; High Regent Sturbridge, Regent Estevez and Regent Wainwright. ~Sturbridge~ has said nothing, if you want to run with ~Estevez~ having alluded to the newcomer, by all means do so if you wish. In any event, I'll mail you about him, Reaper (shall do in a few minutes, in fact).

As to the XP thing, let me know if you're spending Xp and have a pretext for spending it (preferably on something you've had a chance to develop in-game, though I grant disciplines, as supernatural, often prove the exception to the rule).

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Shalimar

Well Sabrina won' be spending any experience for a while, till she picks up 10 points for the first dot of Dominate.  That, purchasing up presence, or buying more dots of perform thanks to Cait's lessons.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Caitlyn won't be spending any points for a long while either.  I'm pretty happy with the way she is right now and I'm not in a hurry to change her in any way.


----------



## Vychtorya

Just wanted to say hello and that I like the way the story is rolling out.  

For Catulle:
I'm with Shalimar and Kitana. I am happy with Vych as she is for the time being too.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Women of V:tM Unite!

Sorry hehe, I just felt like saying that.  I'm glad you're with us, Vych!


----------



## Shalimar

Sabrina wont be purchasing up any disciplines for a while because she doesn't even know they exist.  So  

I do like her the way she is though.  So no changes for a long while.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I don't have any experience.


----------



## Catulle

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I don't have any experience.  *




'course you do - I just gave you one, right?

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I don't have any experience.  *




Awwwww!!!!!  *runs and hugs Ashram*  You should get mondo experience points just for putting up with me, let alone everyone else, LOL!

hehe...hug you here...uh...before my PC attacks your PC in the metal joe game and you wanna smack me...please forgive


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

um........sure


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *..please forgive  *




You where going to shoot me in the head with a .50 calibur sniper rifle!

well....

*shrug*

ok.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You where going to shoot me in the head with a .50 calibur sniper rifle!
> 
> well....
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> ok.  *




 

Just for that piece of goodness I'll just knock you out cold instead...

LOL anyway to stop the hijacking, Catulle how are you going to do the experience points?  Are you going to handle it the same way as Ash did?


----------



## Catulle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *LOL anyway to stop the hijacking, Catulle how are you going to do the experience points?  Are you going to handle it the same way as Ash did? *




Given that I'm not entirely sure what Ash's plan was, I was going to occasionally hand out XP in small quantities and have you lot let me know when/if you want to spend it. Given my unfamiliarity with PbP, I reckon I'll probably err on the side of caution, at  least to begin with. By all means, tell me if progress is too fast or slow; it's all a learning experience, after all.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

works for me!

I'm still trying to work out the kinks in Caitlyn myself.  She's kind stiff right now, but then she is in an uncomfortable place, so I suppose she would be more formal than her usual casual demeanor. I think once you get her out of the formal atmosphere (like when she's going to visiting the Montegues for the lessons) she'll be more like herself in a bit more casual, smaller environment...that is less "being surrounded by a couple dozen or so bloodthirsty vampires" and more like just being surrounded by three of 'em. hehe


----------



## Catulle

Hey folks,

I've put up an example of combat on the IC thread (thought I should at the earliest opportunity) - if there are any questions about it or other combat-related machanics, please ask on this thread. It's worth noting that the Initiative phase is when actions get declared, blood points spent, etc. in reverse order of initiative (that may not have been clear from the e.g.).

Cheers,

Barry


[Edited for spelling and grammar]


----------



## reapersaurus

VERY cool, Catulle.
And fun - sets up the character interaction very well, too.

Bravo!


----------



## Shalimar

I slipped in Sabrina crying tears of blood.  I can't exactly remember whether its WOD vampires that cry blood, Hamilton's vampires, Rice's Vampires, or some combination of the above.  Can someone refresh my memory?


----------



## Catulle

It's pretty common throughout the genre. Works for me.

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Looks good to me, Catulle...only I hope Cate won't get involved in any combat  any time soon...lol


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I slipped in Sabrina crying tears of blood.  I can't exactly remember whether its WOD vampires that cry blood, Hamilton's vampires, Rice's Vampires, or some combination of the above.  Can someone refresh my memory? *




Isn't crying tears of blood going to freak/fascinate Sabrina?  hehe  if she cries in front of Cate, that will definitely freak the human out.  *omigod, sabrina, we have to get you to a doctor right away in broad daylight! and BTW why are all the drapes closed?  Let's let in some sunlight, shall we?  I can't see the music sheets*

yeah first voice lesson will be memorable I'm sure....


----------



## Catulle

Also FYI, I thought I'd post a quick guide to the characters' appearance scores to help with visualisation purposes. I'll update this post as things progress if it's useful to you (it can also serve as something of an (N)PC glossary):-

Aisling Sturbridge = 3
Caitlyn Tran = 5
Calebros = 0
Carrick Ashton = 4
Carter Vanderweyden = 4
Elizabeth Shaw = 5
Ephraim Wainwright = 1
Eugenio Estevez = 3
Gabriel Cross = 2
Hellene Panhard = 2
Jemal Montague = 4
Marlena = 2
Maxwell Freigart = 2
Mazz (Stephen) = 3
Morgan Thepclay = 4
Nathaniel Montague = 2
Nikolai D'Angelo = 2 (effectively 4 w.r.t. animal magneism)
Qadir al-Asmai = 3
Sabrina Montague = 3
Smartly dressed man with the harpies = 3
Valentine = 3
Vychtorya-Lyn Fayrchyld = 5
Woman with the scarf = 3
Young woman in casual dress = 3

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Whoo hoo I guessed correctly on most of them ;p

Thanks, Catulle, that does help alot!


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Isn't crying tears of blood going to freak/fascinate Sabrina? *



That does sound like a funny potential scene.

Just a quick question:
Toreador are the only ones that have a proclivity towards being "Fascinated" with a particular phenomenon, right?

Just checking.

And go Nikolai and Animal Magnetism!
Get down with your Bad Self!

Maybe he should mack on Hellene or Morgan - "yo, babes - wassup?
~~~~~
I am prettier than this man."


----------



## Catulle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Just a quick question:
> Toreador are the only ones that have a proclivity towards being "Fascinated" with a particular phenomenon, right?*




Yes; it could be just about anything that strikes them as beautiful though, not necessarily 'pretty stuff'; the pattern made out of blown leaves, for example. I do try not to overplay it though (it tends to get annoying fast).

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

As I'm glancing through the crowd in Elysium I have to say..."Damn are we all a bunch of lookers!"  There's no one supremely ugly in the bunch.  Oh wait...its New York City...LOL that makes sense now  well if we were in LA that would apply too.

And picturing Nikolai, Mr. Bad-Ass Vengeance Vampire, slapping some Hellene and Morgan ass and flirting, is well...hehe highly amusing.


----------



## reapersaurus

Catulle - the 'old' pdf for the game is at:
clickable link


----------



## Jemal

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> And picturing Nikolai, Mr. Bad-Ass Vengeance Vampire, slapping some Hellene and Morgan ass and flirting, is well...hehe highly amusing.  *




Anyoen else realize that it didn't bleep out the word ass in her post?

As for the tears of blood.. UH yeah, that's gonna get interesting.
Glad I'm not hungry.. commiting diablerie on ones younger sibling would probably be a bad thing...


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Jemal said:
			
		

> *commiting diablerie on ones younger sibling would probably be a bad thing...
> *




I hear it is "frowned upon".  

Glad to get cought up. Like I said way back when, I rarely if ever post on the weekends and Friday was a mess.

Next weekend will be no exception. The wife and I got a cabin for the Valentine's day weekend.


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Jemal _*
> Anyoen else realize that it didn't bleep out the word ass in her post?
> *




It didn't bleep it out in yours either boyo...we must be special


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Ashrem Bayle _*
> Next weekend will be no exception. The wife and I got a cabin for the Valentine's day weekend.   *




Oooo nice.   I haven't figured out yet what I want to do yet for that weekend.


----------



## Vychtorya

I love February! I get to celebrate Valentine's Day and my birthday all in the same week. I only missed being born on V-day by 2 days too early.

Have a great time Ash!!


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Vychtorya _*
> I love February! I get to celebrate Valentine's Day and my birthday all in the same week. I only missed being born on V-day by 2 days too early.
> 
> Have a great time Ash!! *




Hehe double the fun!  My brother's birthday is on V'Day...he's had to live with the ribbing all his life


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *As I'm glancing through the crowd in Elysium I have to say..."Damn are we all a bunch of lookers!"  There's no one supremely ugly in the bunch. *



You haven't seen the Nosferatu in the corner yet....   

oh- and....
assassassassassassassass.

and ass.

"Pardon me...  does it smell like ass in here?"  
(or was it censored for me?)


----------



## Shalimar

no, it wasn't censored, doesn't mean we have to indulge does it?

Well, happy early birthday Vyc.  Mine is also in February, the 18.


----------



## Vychtorya

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Well, happy early birthday Vyc.  Mine is also in February, the 18. *




The 18th is my cousin's birthday! Just barely an aquarius


----------



## Festy_Dog

Speaking of birthdays mine's also on V'day.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Speaking of birthdays mine's also on V'day.  *




hehe  another V'Day boy?  Wow alot of Feb birthdays in this group.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Happy Valentines to everyone and Happy Birthday to Vych and Festy.

I hate Valentine's Day. I don't remember having a good one. Last year, my wife and I almost broke up (we weren't married yet) and the year before my dad killed himself.

I'm hoping this one is a bit better.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Happy Valentines to everyone and Happy Birthday to Vych and Festy.
> 
> I hate Valentine's Day. I don't remember having a good one. Last year, my wife and I almost broke up (we weren't married yet) and the year before my dad killed himself.
> 
> I'm hoping this one is a bit better.  *




Goodness!  I do, too.  

Good luck to you and may this V'Day be a good one for everyone. (and don't forget Shalimar's b'day is coming up!)


----------



## Vychtorya

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I hate Valentine's Day. I don't remember having a good one. Last year, my wife and I almost broke up (we weren't married yet) and the year before my dad killed himself.
> 
> I'm hoping this one is a bit better.  *




I'm sorry. That's terrible, Ash! 

It sounds like you are still newly weds though? Congrats! And you have a cabin to go to. That's cool! 

Our "romantic evening" this year will consist of our 2yr old son and dinner with my mother-in-law at her house. It's amazing how V-day takes on different faces as our lives grow. LOL 

For my birthday, I'm going to dinner, then to see my good friend and future brother-in-law get beat up playing hockey!  Talk about a birthday "bash"! LOL


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Sorry Shali! 

I missed that. Happy b'day!


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vych!  Can you go read my post and tell me if my assumptions were correct?  So I can change my post if they're wrong


----------



## Valara

Thanks Ashypooh


----------



## Catulle

Well, congratulations and/or best wishes to all concerned.

Over here, most of my friends and I seem to celebrate around Easter-time (3 of us in my house were born on consecutive days...).

Cheers,

Barry


Who's looking forward to actually getting taken out rather than doing the taking this year...


PS - Ash, could you post a character description/picture on the rogue's gallery thread - it needn't be stats or anything but enough to give folks a handle on how Gabriel looks/'feels' to be around.


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Vych!  Can you go read my post and tell me if my assumptions were correct?  So I can change my post if they're wrong *






			
				KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *[OOC: I'm going to assume you did the full curtsy? Not the half curtsy?  I'm assuming she has an accent since she's Swiss? If so, let me know and I can correct my response.]
> 
> (OOC response - I am so sorry. I ment it to be more of a quick, not even half curtsy. More like the type one might do before square dancing. I should have specified it. Again, I'm sorry.
> 
> Vych doesn't want to make Caitlyn feel outta place anymore than she does. That's why she blushed herself warm before meeting her. Vych tries very hard to make herself appear as human as possible when around them.
> You are right with the accent.   So sometimes her words do seem more formal than most. When she gets nervous or is around someone as lovely as Cait, she tends to sound more formal due to lack of concentration on her words.
> 
> And Vych loves modern music - all kinds. So she won't be expecting Max to waltz or anything like that.
> 
> Again, I'm sorry for the confusion I caused Kit. I will fix mine right away.)*


----------



## Catulle

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *When she gets nervous or is around someone as lovely as Cait, she tends to sound more formal due to lack of concentration on her words. *




Lol. You know, I do this in real life, only my accent comes right out of the woodwork to boot (fifteen years late).

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

It was more like a genuflect....I couldn't think of the word earlier. It was driving me crazy!!! LOL But my friend from our renaissance guild just called me, so I asked her.


----------



## Vychtorya

Catulle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Lol. You know, I do this in real life, only my accent comes right out of the woodwork to boot (fifteen years late).
> 
> Barry *




Reaper and I are in a Scottish renaissance guild, and after a weekend full of speaking with a scottish accent, it is VERY difficult to resume our regular accent (that being Californian of course - LOLOLOL)


----------



## Sia-Lan Wezz

> _Originally posted by Vychtorya _*
> Again, I'm sorry for the confusion I caused Kit.) *




No problem!  That clarified it for me.  I'll go fix it 

I thought she was doing Cate's half-curtsy, until I saw that she stuck her arm out, then I got confused b/c modern dresses don't really let you get away with full curtsy's.  I have two ball gowns and I mean _gowns_ that I can do that it in, the rest of my evening dresses are just too short or too body-conscious...but surprisingly it is much easier to pull off a full curtsy in heels than it is in flats.  Well, that was rambling, anyway...

LOL good a/b the waltz cuz I was trying think of a waltzy song with words and couldn't come up with one, hehe...but I got a few good slow dance sort of modern ballads with some great ironic lyrics.

Man, square-dancing, something else I haven't done since grade school when they made you do that during gym.   I do mostly salsa these days, much much more fun!

As for Cate being uncomfortable, there's no way to prevent that.  She ran away to NYC to escape all that high society junk and then she find herself at one of these swanky parties...she's not comfortable at all...but the good thing is that she doesn't feel like one of them because she is the entertainment not the guest so she'll be a bit more comfortable.

And kewl...a swiss accent.  I have no idea what it sounds like.  LOL...Cate's accent is the southern belle accent like Scarlet O'Hara and not Ellie Mae, but she's lost a great deal of it since moving to NYC and now its sort of ghostly echo in her words at times.


----------



## Catulle

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Scottish*




Bingo.


----------



## Vychtorya

All fixed Kit 

(Is it okay to call you Kit? I should have asked you first.)


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *All fixed Kit
> 
> (Is it okay to call you Kit? I should have asked you first.) *




OOPS I'm Sia-Lan =P

damn cookies...

yeah go ahead and call me kit  everyone does

and you want weird

Try an asian girl with a southern belle accent


----------



## Shalimar

oh boy.  I just thought of something.  When Jemal brings his girl or hopefully girls as I doubt Sabrina will be able to stop herself until she is full (she needs 8 blood points, and taking that much from one person will mean hospitalization at the very least).  Well when he does eventually show up, he is going to see her face is covered in blood from all her crying.  I'd love that explination.


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *OOPS I'm Sia-Lan =P
> damn cookies...
> yeah go ahead and call me kit  everyone does
> and you want weird
> Try an asian girl with a southern belle accent *




Okay...you freaked me out when I saw Sai-Lan. LOL

Actually, I think the accent would be very cool on an asian girl! It would be quite alluring I think.


----------



## Vychtorya

Sia-Lan Wezz said:
			
		

> *I thought she was doing Cate's half-curtsy, until I saw that she stuck her arm out, then I got confused b/c modern dresses don't really let you get away with full curtsy's.  I have two ball gowns and I mean gowns that I can do that it in, the rest of my evening dresses are just too short or too body-conscious...but surprisingly it is much easier to pull off a full curtsy in heels than it is in flats.  Well, that was rambling, anyway...
> Man, square-dancing, something else I haven't done since grade school when they made you do that during gym.   I do mostly salsa these days, much much more fun!
> And kewl...a swiss accent.  I have no idea what it sounds like.  LOL...Cate's accent is the southern belle accent like Scarlet O'Hara and not Ellie Mae, but she's lost a great deal of it since moving to NYC and now its sort of ghostly echo in her words at times. *




Yeah....I totally agree with you  I wish we could wear heels in the guild. Most of my dancing anymore is courtier dances done in character with the ladies of the guild. Lots and LOTS of curtsy going on. LOL 
I'm not sure where my square dancing reference came from. It just popped into my head remembering how much I hated it in grade school. Boys were for playing cars with in the dirt, not for dancing with. LOL 

As far as what her accent sounds like.....hmmm....right now I can't think of a female actress with the right accent...... Christopher Lambert's (the actor from Knight Moves, Highlander) is the closest I can think of, but female of course. heeheee.


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Vychtorya _*
> 
> Yeah....I totally agree with you  I wish we could wear heels in the guild. Most of my dancing anymore is courtier dances done in character with the ladies of the guild. Lots and LOTS of curtsy going on.
> *




Oh and you're wearing those heavy bulky costumes too...hehe, but the Renaissance gowns are pretty nice looking.

Yep definitely lots of curtsying


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Oh and you're wearing those heavy bulky costumes too...hehe, but the Renaissance gowns are pretty nice looking.
> Yep definitely lots of curtsying  *




Yep! heehee   Thank goodness for the corset and corset tabs!! It keeps all that dress weight off the shoulders.


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Vychtorya _*
> Yep! heehee   Thank goodness for the corset and corset tabs!! It keeps all that dress weight off the shoulders.   *




LOL I've never worn one, but a few of my friends worked in the Renaissance Fair as singers and every time I see them in their dresses...just LOOKING at them makes me feel tired.  They look so heavy!  I can't imagine wearing that all day.  So I can appreciate you trying to curtsy in them...gawd!  But it must look very kewl to see the whole guild floating around in dances and bobbing up and down in curtsies.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Catulle said:
			
		

> *PS - Ash, could you post a character description/picture on the rogue's gallery thread - it needn't be stats or anything but enough to give folks a handle on how Gabriel looks/'feels' to be around. *




No prob. Will post soon.

EDIT - Done. 

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36088


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle

Does my performance/appearance roll hold for the whole scene?  Or will you roll for every song?

LOL knowing my luck, I'll get a sucky roll this time around to make up for my lucky one earlier.  

Well I'm trying out something new this time, adding more movement instead of all the thoughts she had before when she sings.  I think I'm going to make that a focal point for her, everything will be about music, she probably thinks in notes.  Life for Cate is a musical, darkly terrifying but yet filled with song!


----------



## Catulle

I was thinking it'd be best to roll for each performance she does, since each song requires handling in a slightly different way and there's been a decent lull between the two pieces. If she were getting up and playing a set with no breaks, I'd just do the one for the sake of brevity.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *I was thinking it'd be best to roll for each performance she does, since each song requires handling in a slightly different way and there's been a decent lull between the two pieces. If she were getting up and playing a set with no breaks, I'd just do the one for the sake of brevity.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Barry *




That makes sense, ok!


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I know we where originally going to go with the main book only but Cate is *BEGGING* to be embraced by a Daughter of Cacophony!

*Daughters of Cacophony*

The Daughters are a distinctly modern phenomena despite their Classical name. No Kindred claims to have heard of them before the 1700s, and if they had existed before then, vampires feel sure they would have known. The Daughters are such masters of song that most Kindred believe they are an offshoot of the Toreador, though those who have been on the receiving end of their power think the Malkavians had more influence.
The Daughters of Cacophony are singers without peer, but their melodious harmonies are not their main claims to fame. It is the damage their songs can do to the mind that causes their Kindred concern.
The Toreador are of two minds in their dealings with this bloodline. While they cannot deny that the Daughters have incredible skill in their chosen art, more than one Toreador has been forever twisted by one disjointed note. The Daughters songs can be as horrid as they can be beautiful, and there is no way of knowing their intentions until they act.
The Daughters are a small bloodline, centered mainly in the New World, and member Embrace only those who show real singing talent. Most create no more than one or two childer. The childer learn from their sires for years before being released into the world.
The Daughters go to great lengths to avoid Embracing anyone of wide renown, but most of the line's members were beginning promising careers in music at the time of the Embrace. They retain their love of performance, but perform mainly for each other and for their small Herds. They keep their Fame minimal, but often find the lure of small clubs too much to ignore. Hearing such a performance can be an unmatched experience for anyone. While they seem to abide by the Masquerade, Daughters can be found in both the Camarilla and the Sabbat. Some Kindred insist the Daughters have undying loyalty to whatever sect rules in the city in which they reside. For instance, on famous Daughter, Sayshila, in known to have stopped a Sabbat attack on a Miami concert house. On the other hand, she is believed to have driven a Gangrel archon mad after the pair spent a night howling together at the moon.

*Nickname:* Sirens 

*Appearance:* There is no standard look to this bloodline. Its members have included beefy opera singers, pencil-thin divas and everything in between. While some of it's most prominent members have been female, the bloodline includes a fair amount of males, though most are rather young. 

*Haven:* Trendy apartments, lofts and nightclubs seem to be their residences of choice. 

*Background:* Anyone Embraced into this bloodline will have a beautiful voice, but does not have to be a professional musician. Still, most were. 

*Character Creation:* Daughters of Cacophony almost always have entertainer concepts. They split their most popular natures between Visionary and Praise-Seeker, though they may take any Demeanor. Social Attributes and Talent Abilities are almost always primary. They always have at least some Fame, but can take any other backgrounds they desire. Most will also have Herds for whom they perform. Many have developed the Baby Face Merit. 

*Clan Disciplines:* Fortitude, Melpominee, Presence 

*Weaknesses:* The Daughters of Cacophony are so caught up in their music that they hear it constantly. As a result of this distraction, the difficulties of all a Daughter's Perception rolls are increased by one. Additionally, a Daughter's Alertness can never exceed three. 

*Organization:* The bloodline has no formal organization, but Younger members generally follow the lead of the older, more talented members. Occasionally a number of Daughters gather to give a concert of great beauty.
________________________________________________

EDIT - This is from 2nd Edition Vampire. The revised edition states that the Daughters have purged the males from their bloodline. Other than that, I believe they are unchanged, though their primary discipline, Melpominee has changed a bit. 

Melpominee is the discipline that allows them to drive people insane, send their voice over long distances, and cause people's internal organs to rupture with their voice.


----------



## Catulle

Ash,

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy ahead of you, dude. 

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Ash,
> 
> Waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy ahead of you, dude.
> 
> Barry *




LOL

oh dear

hmm...I've never heard of them before, but you're right, Ash, she would be a prime target. And that is an...*cough* _interesting_ discipline.  hehe I like the daughters concept.

Poor Cate, I had hoped for more of a lovers embrace and not a nutjob embrace though.  And just when Cate was starting to get a liking for Nathaniel.  He's pretty cool, love the funny clothes, interesting voice, and odd demeanor...sorry am a sucker for the broody types.

The only problem I see with the daughters is that her strong desire to make it in the business, to prove to her parents, etc... would conflict with the daughters desire for secrecy in singing talent.  Singing for just her herd or in small clubs won't do it for her.  That potential conflict is interesting but I don't want it to get her killed.


----------



## Catulle

To be completely honest with you, it's not my intention to handle this whole thing without heavy cause/consequence or without 'following character' throughout. Nor is it my intention to do anything at all too fast.

Think of it as a field of possibilities...

Regards,

Barry


PS - Ash; they toned down Melpominee in revised to block the Daughters' whole unfortunate 'ultimate assassin' schtick.


----------



## Shalimar

> Poor Cate, I had hoped for more of a lovers embrace and not a nutjob embrace though. And just when Cate was starting to get a liking for Nathaniel. He's pretty cool, love the funny clothes, interesting voice, and odd demeanor...sorry am a sucker for the broody types.




Yea but then it would be an all in the family kinda thing, Literally.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *To be completely honest with you, it's not my intention to handle this whole thing without heavy cause/consequence or without 'following character' throughout. Nor is it my intention to do anything at all too fast.
> 
> Think of it as a field of possibilities...
> *




Definitely not too fast.  And I really like the heavy cause/consequence thing  makes it all more dramatic and interesting.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yea but then it would be an all in the family kinda thing, Literally. *




lol yeah I know--but twas only a possibility, not like she met any of the others yet--Jemal and Max are cuties though

damn the broodiness though


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Ashrem Bayle _*
> The mortal woman looked absolutely delicious.  *




*hears knives and forks sharpening*

Are you trying to get back at me for wanting to shoot you in the head with the .50? hehe


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Maybe...


----------



## Shalimar

Well, this is me hoping that the woman Jemal is going to feed me isn't drunk as she seems.  I'll pick up the effects of being drunk, and Sabrina isn't exactly a heavy weight if you know what I mean.  That and if you get her drunk she will have even less control over herself and whether she drinks till she is full(killing the girl).  I can see it now, sabrina running amuck in the banquet where people already think she should be killed


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Well, this is me hoping that the woman Jemal is going to feed me isn't drunk as she seems.  I'll pick up the effects of being drunk, and Sabrina isn't exactly a heavy weight if you know what I mean.  That and if you get her drunk she will have even less control over herself and whether she drinks till she is full(killing the girl).  I can see it now, sabrina running amuck in the banquet where people already think she should be killed *




ooo...not so good since you almost tried to take a bite out of Cate....


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *  Maybe... *




 

I'll get you yet....


----------



## KitanaVorr

ok

Cate is done with her second song

LOL

I can go on for song after song, as its pretty fun (sort of guiltily reliving my highschool/college years there) but I'm sure people actually want a chance to talk, eh?


----------



## Shalimar

Great job Kitana, I really love the effort you are putting in.


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Shalimar _*Great job Kitana, I really love the effort you are putting in. *




Thanks 

I just didn't want to make it be boring to read, especially since its the cornerstone of her character.


----------



## Vychtorya

Thank you for the song Kit!  I like the whole lyric thing! I enjoy reading them long or short. 

Hey that Daughters thing Ash brought up sounds cool! Ya know who's to say one of those "Daughters" might not be a handsome "son", eh? They do have men amongst them as he noted. Maybe a little romance that way instead. I think it's rather cool to not to know what clan and who's gonna bitecha. More mystery and intrigue!!! And I am ALL about reading that for SURE!!! 

Happy storytelling everyone!


----------



## Vychtorya

> *Mazz's eyes drifted across to Vychtorya as the music started, the source of his earlier distraction becoming clear.*



Catulle, quick question:
As Vych dances with Max, does she "sense" Mazz looking at her?

Thanks in advance 

V


----------



## Vychtorya

I couldn't sleep so I thought I'd check the board. Holy cow!!!!  I just read Max's reply to Vych! Awesome response by the way Festy! You totally caught me, the player, off guard! That rocks! 

But uh, maybe make that 2 perception plus "whatever" checks Catulle! LOL One for Mazz and one for Max?   

Thanks!


----------



## Festy_Dog

Wow, thanks.  I thought I had better do that one well so i took the better part of... a long time  to do it, can't remember how long. rping is just very kewl. Glad i impressed you so much


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Thank you for the song Kit!  I like the whole lyric thing! I enjoy reading them long or short.
> 
> Hey that Daughters thing Ash brought up sounds cool! Ya know who's to say one of those "Daughters" might not be a handsome "son", eh? They do have men amongst them as he noted. Maybe a little romance that way instead. I think it's rather cool to not to know what clan and who's gonna bitecha. More mystery and intrigue!!! And I am ALL about reading that for SURE!!!
> 
> Happy storytelling everyone!  *




Yep

I like the not knowing as long as I get final say in who bites her, I'm totally okay with everything leading up to all kinds of things.  I thought the revised edition said they purged their men.

But LOL man, Max is gonna get in trouble if Carrick gets jealous from Vych's flirting!  I think that's working up to be an interesting story in itself.  Don't mind Cate's thoughts, she doesn't know about Vych and Carrick, as far as she knows Vych is single and her and Max are getting hubba hubba! hehe 

A definitely kudos to you, Festy, good post!  I liked the ending alot.

Which leads me to my question...do vampires bite other vampires for food?  I mean I can see vampires biting humans (as they probably smell like food or something like that) but would they have the same reaction to other vampires?


----------



## Festy_Dog

> Which leads me to my question...do vampires bite other vampires for food? I mean I can see vampires biting humans (as they probably smell like food or something like that) but would they have the same reaction to other vampires?




Nope, not normally, but...


----------



## Catulle

Well... blood's blood at the end of the day, and Kindred vitae has a particular potency that's difficult to beat. Of course, most (but by no means all) Kindred know that drinking from another can create a blood bond so try to avoid it, but once they've had that first taste... I think once you start looking at the blood thirst in terms of drug addiction, you're about right. Or at least close enough to make sense in context.

Vych - I'd have said that between the performance and her clan weakness, she's having trouble paying attention to Max, let alone other stimuli. She'd probably notice once the music stops, though, at your discretion.

The male daughters? Well, by canon, they're a non-issue but since canon's ultimately just a guideline for the storyteller... As I see it, nothing is ever certain in the ''World of Darkness'' and nothing kills horror/suspense quicker than certainty. Not that any of the characters are likely to know anything about the internal politics of an obscure bloodline in any event.

Regards,

Barry


PS - Sorry about the laxness in the past day or so. I'm back on top of things now.

PPS/Edit - I've updated the (N)PC glossary on p12 again.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Well... blood's blood at the end of the day, and Kindred vitae has a particular potency that's difficult to beat. Of course, most (but by no means all) Kindred know that drinking from another can create a blood bond so try to avoid it, but once they've had that first taste... I think once you start looking at the blood thirst in terms of drug addiction, you're about right. Or at least close enough to make sense in context.
> *




Gotcha.  Shalimar explained the three kisses to me better, but seeing it as an addiction helps me understand it mucm more now.  I was thinking more like food, but a blood addiction opens up many more possibilities.

and oh...

Elizabeth's here?  oh dear dear dear...


----------



## Vychtorya

Vych is blood bound to Carrick and Carrick is almost blood bound to her. She would do anything for him basically.


----------



## reapersaurus

I WISH I could have found a way to fit this into the IC thread, but I had to add it here:

_Nikolai hears the last strains of music emanate from the stage and out over the crowd, and is compelled to take out his lighter and hold it above his head, flicking it on and waving it from side to side in the universal crowd plea for "More Music!".

Rotchroek checks ensue, while some Malkavian in the back falls over so hard laughing his unbeating heart beats once, then twice._


----------



## Vychtorya

*Happy Birthday!*

Happy belated b-day to Festy on V-day, and happy b-day to Shalimar on Tuesday the 18th!!!

I hope you had and have a great day!


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Am I the only one that thinks Sabrina is a creepy little critter.

 

Good job Shalimar!


----------



## Shalimar

Creepy? Who? Me?   I rather like her, she grows on you if you give her a chance.  Then again so does mold so that aint very flattering.

What about her do you think is soo creepy?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Creepy? Who? Me?   I rather like her, she grows on you if you give her a chance.  Then again so does mold so that aint very flattering.
> 
> What about her do you think is soo creepy? *




Child vampire sucking one's blood and then wanting to give gifts after ain't creepy?   btw I like the nice touch of the gift


----------



## Vychtorya

I think Sabrina is quite poetic and sweet actually. The gift is like her MO. I like it Shalimar! Very cool idea!


----------



## reapersaurus

I think she should be dusted.

with extreme prejudice.

just kidding.  

But if she EVEN starts singing the Barney Song, Qadir should unload on the sick little puppy.

Thinking now: what gift could she give that would be REALLY creepy?


----------



## Festy_Dog

Sabrina is a very kewl little character, and I'm looking forward to the kind of situations she'll create being a kid and all. I can't help but second everyone's thoughts on the gift, very nice!


----------



## Shalimar

Any thoughts on what gift to give?  I don't think her education on etiquette would cover snacking on someone.  Maybe a small piece of jewelery? She would never go for cash thats just poor form.  Kind of like whoring, er sort of.  So not something Saby would go for.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Any thoughts on what gift to give?  I don't think her education on etiquette would cover snacking on someone.  Maybe a small piece of jewelery? She would never go for cash thats just poor form.  Kind of like whoring, er sort of.  So not something Saby would go for. *




Well

after donating blood

you get sugary treats!

chocolate heart? 

lol but for jewelry...heart pendant?

EDIT:  Though everyone does realize that her giving the gifts would put her in danger of ruining the masquerade especially if she gives to every one of her victims...ooo problems for Jemal/Nathan  i like


----------



## Shalimar

Well duh! Where's the fun in everything being peaches and cream?  I'm thinking Sabrina's gonna make a lot of frienship bracelets, you know the kind, a few bits of mulitcolored string braided together around the forearm.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Well duh! Where's the fun in everything being peaches and cream?  I'm thinking Sabrina's gonna make a lot of frienship bracelets, you know the kind, a few bits of mulitcolored string braided together around the forearm. *




I like that.  It would be simple for her to make, Jemal and Nathan would have a harder time realizing what's she's done.

hehe


----------



## Vychtorya

I like the friendship bracelet thing!! Maybe make them red with a tiny bead heart in the middle? LOL


----------



## Shalimar

> ]”Perhaps your observations are true Max. I heard mention that Ms. Tran may be giving some music lessons to the young one that was here earlier. Personally, I would not want to hear of anything “happening” to her. I don’t believe in forced entry into “our” world. The human spirit is something I hold very dear, eventhough I do admire the thought of preserving beauty in any form.




Um, Vych honey, The only people who know about the lessons Cait is giving Sabrina are Sabrina, and Jemal who haven't met her; and Cait and Nathan who haven't told anyone.

I don't mean to sound upset or anything, but to kindred info is a major thing to be exchange, and information is not free.  To learn something about someone you need to be told by someone else specifically.  No one told anyone about it, so Vych doesn't Know, only the 4 above know.

Just like not everyone in new york should be used to seeing the child vamp.  This is her first appearance in front of anyone but Elizabeth, Jemal, and Nathan.  It should be a pretty big shock, not just accepted freely.  Just wanted to point out the whole shocking thing to everyone.  I mean she has existed for a total of two nights (the banquet being the second), pretty hard for news to get around, and even if it did, seeing her in the flesh is not the same as hearing about her.


----------



## KitanaVorr

true

Pretty much the only people not shocked  are Nathan, Jemal, Sabrina, Elizabeth and Cate (because she doesn't know about the vampy stuff)

btw I like the heart on the friendship bracelet idea


----------



## Shalimar

I do too.  And its cheap, so I don't have to bug Nathan for money for it.  Though I need a preasant for Becky in the now and not the later.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I do too.  And its cheap, so I don't have to bug Nathan for money for it.  Though I need a preasant for Becky in the now and not the later. *




you could cut off a piece of your hair and weave it, but would be too obvious to Jemal?...hmm...just give her a lock of your hair tucked into clothes?

in fact that could be part of your friendship bracelet, a lock of your hair woven in....


----------



## Shalimar

Umm... Ick I do have to go back to the party.  What would people say? I think I'll just go with what Jemal suggests.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Umm... Ick I do have to go back to the party.  What would people say? I think I'll just go with what Jemal suggests. *




not chop off a whole bunch...just a few strands   wouldn't be noticable


----------



## Shalimar

Well that might hurt her, and Sabrina doesn't like pain, not in the slightest.


----------



## reapersaurus

Just to note for disclosure : 
Nikolai tried to read Gabriel's Aura and hear what he and the Harpies were talking about in their tete a tete.

I haven't heard from Catulle exactly what Nik could have heard, but I'll try to roleplay it...


----------



## Festy_Dog

Max will reply as though Vych never mentioned the lessons. No worries.


----------



## reapersaurus

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Max will reply as though Vych never mentioned the lessons. No worries.  *



you might wanna just go ahead and respond to Vych's mention of the lessons : 
she showed me the quote where it was told to her in character.

So "no worries" about her incorrectly using player knowledge in character.


----------



## Shalimar

My appologies, I went back through the thread and found it.  I am really sorry.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *My appologies, I went back through the thread and found it.  I am really sorry. *




Its not your fault. It was my responsiblity to find it for you and I missed it. ;p  Too busy checking up what Cate and Max had told Vych about Sabrina, forgot to reread all of Nathan. (ironically though remembered the charming comment but didn't connect it to the correct post).


----------



## Catulle

Hiya folks,

Sorry if it looks like I've dropped the ball on this one, but I've been offline the past 24 hours (lousy LAN messing up my settings - grrr). I'll try to add a little clarity on a point-by-point basis for everything that's come up since I fell off.

The confusion about the lessons seems to have been cleared up; the details were tucked away in one of my posts for reference (near the bottom of p2).

Regarding child vampires; note that there have been 'death threats' already - Qadir and Nikolai may yet be watching just in case the balance requires 'correction' and I think Nathaniel's outrage is obvious. Otherwise, what I was aiming for was a kind of strained silence from most of the Kindred. Like not looking at the deformity of a man in the street... From a point of interest, it's worth noting that the Tremere primogen in Chicago looks to be 10, and the Toreador Justicar, 16. Certainly reason enough for a little caution, at least from the 'elders' or politically aware Kindred. As ever, folks, keep nature, conscience and humanity in mind as the real yardsticks of character morality.

Should I deal with IC actions that require OOC collaboration here or on the main thread? I'd quite like the former, to keep the IC stuff clean and easy to read, but give me your feedback, please.

As an example of the above;
(Nikolai Aura Perception - 10,8,6,4,3,2,2,1 plus reroll 7 - 1 success). Which lets him know Gabriel has a pale aura (if he'd scored enough to discern a mood, I'd now be asking Ashrem for his input before anythig went over to IC).
For the eavesdropping, (Nikolai Per/Alertness - 10,10,10,9,5,4,4,2 - 4 successes) he'll gain a good idea of the conversation up to the start of the performance. (Nikolai Willpower - 9,9,8,7,6,6,5,4,1,1 - 2 successes) Strength of mind keeps him on just the right side of disorientation.
Resisted Per/Subt vs. Man/Subt for the sake of discretion gives Nikolai 6 successes to Qadir's 3, Carter's 4 and Aisling's rather shocking 8... perhaps more on that later, then.

Otherwise if you have questions please feel free to raise them (I could easily talk more about child vampires, for example),

Regards,

Barry


----------



## reapersaurus

Questions:
When you post roll results, do you ever mention what the Difficulty of the roll is? Do we assume unless otherwise mentioned that it's a 6?
For example, Nikolai's Aura Perception would have been 3 successes if the difficulty was 6, right?


And the Willpower roll if 6 would have been 6 successes, not 2 right?

And to understand the opposed roll : 
why would Aislinn, Carter and Qadir notice if someone was simply attempting to overhear their conversation at a party? I wasn't thinking that Auspex 1 and using Hearing is an "active power" - how/why does it go like that?

And as a rule, I love any discussion of rules, and welcome any opinions/insights.


----------



## reapersaurus

Grrrrrrrr. I oopsed.


----------



## Vychtorya

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Should I deal with IC actions that require OOC collaboration here or on the main thread? I'd quite like the former, to keep the IC stuff clean and easy to read, but give me your feedback, please.*



I like the idea of keeping the IC stuff clean too. It's easier to read that way I think, more fluid.


----------



## Catulle

> Questions:
> When you post roll results, do you ever mention what the Difficulty of the roll is? Do we assume unless otherwise mentioned that it's a 6?
> For example, Nikolai's Aura Perception would have been 3 successes if the difficulty was 6, right?




I've not been posting difficulty for the sake of brevity, but most of the time, it's 6. Aura Perception's always at difficulty 8, for example, as per the book. I can start adding a note of the difficulty number if that's useful, though. I set the Willpower roll at 7 (since there was a fair ammount of distraction), and with Caitlyn's check to notice Nathaniel I raised his difficulty and lowered hers (she was in prime position to notice and he was a tad distracted by fighting frenzy).




> And the Willpower roll if 6 would have been 6 successes, not 2 right?




As I say, I set that at 7, and the 2 '1s' knocked 2 of the successes off the total.



> And to understand the opposed roll :
> why would Aislinn, Carter and Qadir notice if someone was simply attempting to overhear their conversation at a party? I wasn't thinking that Auspex 1 and using Hearing is an "active power" - how/why does it go like that?




Essentially, I gave them a chance to spot Nikolai staring avidly (Aura Perception) and 'tuning out' sufficiently to take in everything that was going on around him (Heightened Senses). It's an active power in my opinion since it takes a little effort to use; it's not 'up' by default and if it's in use when a strong stimulus occurs, there's a chance of something happening. The three in question were the ones he was exchanging converstaion with during his surveillance so it seemed reasonable to give them a shot. Of course, they're also the ones in the room with more than a fair whack of Auspex, so part of that's simply using the discipline in front of just the right (or wrong) 'people'.



> And as a rule, I love any discussion of rules, and welcome any opinions/insights.




I hope that clarifies your questions in a good way, and I'll start adding a difficulty to mechanics parentheses.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

(this is reapersaurus)
neat discussion of vampire powers - perfect for an OOC Vampire thread.

(Just my personal, non-rules view): I view Auspex 1 as being a vampire's normal ability, that would just about always be "on.".
Similar to using Perception, it just makes them more effective.
I can't picture vampires who have such abilities not using them all the time - it would be akin to someone not putting on their glasses when wanting to see a movie, or something.


----------



## Catulle

I'd have said it's akin to a kind of blood-fuelled tool (if that makes any sense). Need a microscope? Heightened senses. A sniffer dog? Heightened Senses. Reading Glasses? Heightened Senses...

Now, keeping it on all the time could well be like walking about like you have a hearing aid tuned up really high, or wering reading glasses - good for the purpose you've adapted yourself to, but not so useful in every situation and downright disadvantageous in others (witnessing a flare go off with heightened sight, for example - ouch).

Magnitude of sense is handled by heightened senses, but the ability to 'filter' those senses to useful effect comes from perception plus skill as per usual (usually alertness, though not universally).

Sensible?

Barry


----------



## reapersaurus

hmm...   I'm not sure that my senses are attuned enough to grasp what you're saying.

Let me look closer at what you typed......

...closer.....

...closer....   *AGGHHHH!!!!** MY BRAIN! IT HURTSSSSSSSS!!

The shock of realization has just overloaded the rules lobe in my brain.

Seriously, though: what you said makes sense, and helps me understand how you're viewing it.

I want to add, though, that I belive it should be pretty damned hard to notice something as subtle as someone just concentrating and listening.

In real life, if someone calls me on what I'm thinking about, or what they think I'm listening in to, or something as internal as that, is the day I nominate them to be the star of the next Psychic Friends Network commercial.  

In other words, the Difficulty should be a LOT higher to be able to guess what someone is thinking about than simply looking at someone, or listening.
If not, than you get the dangerous precedent where if you have enough dice in Perception, etc, than you become a omniscient observer of everything around you. (which becomes ridiculous once the vampire gets older)


----------



## Catulle

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I want to add, though, that I belive it should be pretty damned hard to notice something as subtle as someone just concentrating and listening...<snip>...In other words, the Difficulty should be a LOT higher to be able to guess what someone is thinking about than simply looking at someone, or listening.*




I'm thinking it's more akin in this example to wondering "Is he listening to me?" than "Oooooh, he's thinking such and such..." Especially if the observer in question is well versed in that particular field (like I say - target audience). The latter part is a function of Aura Perception (or Telepathy), which is a tad more involved.



> *If not, than you get the dangerous precedent where if you have enough dice in Perception, etc, than you become a omniscient observer of everything around you. (which becomes ridiculous once the vampire gets older)*




This is also a darned good reason to only meet ones' elders on Elysium. Beware the old, indeed! (within reason, naturally)

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Also to let people know

real-life is catching up fast, so for the next week or so I won't be able to post as often as I normally do unless i can get a few things done first

I'll try to post at least once a day on every thread and definitely at least once a day on the threads I DM.


----------



## Catulle

I can quite sympathise, seeing as how I'm now re-employed (Hurrah! I get to eat!). I'll try to keep the post count high and the story flowing, though.

In other news, you can all pick up another 1 XP. Bonuses this time round go to our two feudin' Tremere and Sabrina. As per usual, contact me about spending it as and when you wish.

Cheers,

Barry


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Catulle, are keeping a tally on our experience or are we responsible for it ourselves?


----------



## Shalimar

I just keep mine on my character sheet.  I can amass them fine, but spending is a pain in the butt.

I don't have my books with me at the moment.  Can someone tell me how much it costs to buy your first dot of a "clan discipline", I am saving up for dominate, which I took the additional clan discipline for.


----------



## Catulle

It's 10 xp for the first level of any discipline (clan ones are a lot cheaper thereafter and no hassle at all to learn). I'm only keeping tabs on XP in the sense that I can look back and check the thread. I suppose I should start paying a little more attention to that, since you're only going to gain more as time goes by... Good call, I suppose.

By the way - I figure I'll keep the Xp awards occasional then do a 'bonus award' at the end of each scene. How's that sound?

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Catulle _*
> 
> By the way - I figure I'll keep the Xp awards occasional then do a 'bonus award' at the end of each scene. How's that sound?
> *




  works for me


----------



## Vychtorya

Hey there Kit and Shal! Just wanted to drop you a quick note. I enjoyed reading your last posts.


----------



## Shalimar

Thank you! I am loving Vych and her manipulativeness.  She has poor max on a leash already


----------



## KitanaVorr

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *   Thank you! I am loving Vych and her manipulativeness.  She has poor max on a leash already  *




LOL I know  I like the soap opera-ness of the whole vampire thing.  This very different from the other games that I've played in, and I like it!


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *This very different from the other games that I've played in, and I like it! *



I definitely agree!   It's even a little different from the table top V:tM game I played, but I am liking it a lot! It's kind of nice not having to roll all those 10 sided dice! LOL


----------



## Festy_Dog

For my first impression of V:tM I find this game to be pretty damn good!


----------



## Tisvon

I'm just a lurker, but I have to say that after reading both the IC and OOC threads, I find Sabrina by far the most interteresting character around. I often skip past the other posts just to get the latest on the child Brujah vamp. Here's a roleplaying tip though: 8 yr olds are ussally far more mature than you've been playing Sabrina as (take it from someone who has an 9 year old sister) (IMHO, of course).  Of the others, Cate is pretty good. (looking forward to her being embraced)


----------



## Shalimar

Thank You, I think, err something like that.

I think Sabrina is more and less mature then other children in the 7 to 8 year old age frame.  More because of her environment, and the relative emphasis they put on etequitte and acting polite, but a lot less because she is so spoiled, tell me you wouldn't be a little Tisvon-centric if you can and did get everything you wanted as a matter of course.

She also hasn't fully dealt with all the effecs of her violent embrace yet.  I see it as partially making her revert a little to a ounger stage, as well as blocking it from her memory partially.  She is just a child, and will eventually get over it, but for now cut the child some slack.

I admit it, I haven't been that age for 12 years now(last tuesday ) and not only might my memory of it be a little um off, I have been most recently been dealing with my 2 year old nephew, so there is a tendency to see all children as high energy, me now, demons, err little persons.

Also the music that I listen to to get in that type of mood probably isn't wholy fitting, but not really any of my collection quite fits.  For some reason she makes me want to listen to the Angel theme song, Catharsis of Suffering.


----------



## Catulle

Cheers, folks.

Well, things are afoot and I think I've got a better handle on what people want to see in the future having seen you flesh out your characters and their motivations in the first scene... the clock's a-ticking in any case. If there's anything you want to see more of or less of, let me know either through e-mail or right here if you haven't already.

And Shalimar - I get a distinct "Diane" theme from Sabrina (well, strictly Elizabeth and Sabrina). The Therapy? version, of course. Mind you the Angel piece reminds me of that track, too, so that could be where I'm thinking from.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Thank you!

And I agree, Sabrina is by far the most interesting out of us all.  Especially as she comes to terms with not the "fun" part of being a vamp but the 'not so fun' parts of it.  I'm looking very much forward to the voice lesson scenes as I think Cate and Sabrina have a very good chemistry together.  They're both child-like in a way.


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *I like the soap opera-ness of the whole vampire thing.*



Oh, god help us all - Vampire Soap Operas?!  

The Young & the Toothless.

All My Childre.

Eves of Our UnLives.

General Bloodbank.

As the World Ages.

Many Lives To Live.

Scalding Light.

hope you like - and ask if it's not clear which Soap they were modified from.

P.S. I myself am looking forward to more stuff like Sabrina's angst, than more soap opera-ness -  but to each their own, natch.

And Vych - I SO, don't agree. (how would you have guessed?) 
An intrinsic part of playing for me is rolling the bones.
Plus, I don't often enuff get to use my 10 10-sided dice that we hunted for...


----------



## Jemal

I'ld like to apologize for not being around much for this, lets just say that things In RL haven't exactly been.. slow.. the last little while.  I've barely been able to keep up with some of the things, but should be able to keep up better now that I've adjusted.


----------



## KitanaVorr

psst ;p Barry

Are you actually going to give Cate a request or shall I choose another endearingly ironic song?



And Jemal!  Glad to see you've returned.  Cate was getting all lonely.  hehe


----------



## Catulle

Kitana,

I did... didn't I? I'll try resending to your e-mail. Damn.

Regards.

Barry


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I'm having a blast so far. I really enjoy being able to delve into the politics side of the game. This is a better medium for that than tabletop.

My only concern is how we are going to be able to bring our characters together. Nikolai is the only character that has any kind of obvious ralationship with Gabe, and they aren't exactly best buds.  

Hmmm....


----------



## Jemal

lotsa ways to accomplish it.

Ones that DON'T feel like railroading, however, are harder to come up with.  
Speaking of which.. Barry, heads up Incoming E-mail.


----------



## Catulle

From Ash's last post on IC:-

OOC: Actually, unless Reaper made a change, Gabe is older than Nikolai. So wouldn't he be "our youngest apprentice"?


Yes, if she's being literal. Aisling could well be either misinformed, or using the metaphor that age = status to make Gabriel's position on the totem pole clear... Take your pick.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## reapersaurus

For over a month, Nikolai's stat block has said:







> Name: Nikolai D’Angelo
> Nature/ Demeanor: Fanatic/Bravo
> Clan: Tremere
> Generation: 9th
> Age when Embraced: 38



I've actually been thinking about lowering Nikolai's age when embraced, ironically.


----------



## Shalimar

Maybe they meant the length of time they had been kindred, and not age at which the embrace occured reap?


----------



## reapersaurus

ya, that's what confused me, Shal - 
if it's age, Nik is currently older, and if it's experience being a vampire....  aren't we all playing vampires of ~6 months "experience"?

edit : except you, Shal?


----------



## Catulle

To clarify Entrancement for Max (and anybody else who's interested), I'll quote the following from the Vampire rulebook:-

"This power bends others' emotions, making them the vampire's willing servants. Due to what these individuals see as true and enduring devotion, they heed the vampire's every desire. Since this is done willingly out of love (albeit a perversion of it) instead of through sapping the subject's wills, these servants retain their creativity and individuality."

Note that this power can be resisted temporarily, by a function of Willpower (it only has a profound effect as long as you can see the user, as well).

Any questions? Feel free to ask them.

Regards,

Barry


PS - Sorry about the mind-control, Festy...


----------



## Shalimar

Before I post again, I need to know if I can still give the prince the gift that I had gotten for him when the game was just starting, a red crystal heart as big as Sabrina's hand.


----------



## Catulle

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Before I post again, I need to know if I can still give the prince the gift that I had gotten for him when the game was just starting, a red crystal heart as big as Sabrina's hand. *




No problem.

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

(this is reapersaurus)
Barry - any insight on the confusion about Gabe being "older" than Nik?


			
				Catulle said:
			
		

> *(Elizabeth Entrancement diff 2 - 9,6,5,4,2,1,1 plus willpower - 4 successes (duration one month))*



Holy craptacular!
I was about to ask why the Difficulty was so low for Elizabeth's Entrancement of Max, and then I looked :
Willpower of 2.
Wow - that would explain why Max didn't have the Will to go after either of the hotties in school that liked him, and dabbling in a variety of areas.
I hadn't realized you put 2 in there, Festy - it's neat seeing how different decisions during character generation come into play.

For example, it was a happy accident that I looked at Nikolai's character sheet, saw the languages listed, and just thought to say something in Spanish, on a lark.
Lo and behold, Eugenio Estevez is from Spain!
So we get a little scene there - made possible by stats. 

And I'm glad you liked the link to the dictionary (Merriam-Webster web site).
I use it often, and wanted to confirm the spelling of soiree, so I was right there already, might as well make a link in case anyone wants it, too. 
Vych informed me that it could be perceived that I was insulting people's intelligence by assuming they wouldn't know what soiree meant.
I hope that it was perceived as being helpful, instead.

Along those lines, here's a link to the google Language Tools page, in case anyone wants to find out what people are saying when speaking another language: 
http://www.google.com/language_tools
Just copy'n'paste the phrase, and click Translate!
Fun stuff, methinks...

edit: ""I'm sorry." Was all he said."
oooh - that's brutally open to interpretation, Catulle....  
Looks like Sabrina may have a new Boogeyman to haunt her dreams.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Hiya 

I just wanted to say that I think you're doing a great job, Barry. I'm having alot of fun.

Thanks!

Kit


----------



## Catulle

Well, Gabe'd be 'older' in terms of the time embraced (by less than half a year) but 'younger' in total terms. Probably Aisling was using age as a status term. Probably...

I liked the angle, actually (though I did worry about using mind-control out of the blue like that as some players ~hate~ it). And I'm pretty sure Max is well within concept.

And the Prince's 'open' statement? Yes, it is, isn't it?

Now onto the bulk of the reason for this post - I'm going to be out of the loop from early on Friday 7th March till late on Sunday 9th March (both GMT - the time of this post is 23:12 GMT). I'll try to wrap the scene by then and cover some rapid 'downtime' sufficient to set you folks up to run your own scenes as 'filler/builder' if you want the 'ST free' time. Thoughts?

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Shalimar

Consider Sabrina confused beyond belief and afraid.  Are you trying to scare the power child?

Hehe, Good job Barry.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Works for me 

I'd like more time to interact with the other PCs anyway and develop some interesting and twisted subplots with the other PCs myself.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Just in case people were wondering what kind of music the Kindred Knights play - what they sound like - etc...Their inspiration comes from the group Evanescence which basically sums them up.  dark, sort of rock, sort of gothic, sort of ballad, sort of punk.  Amy Lee's singing style and voice is exactly that of Cate's. (Ironically they're the same age too)

I'm so impatient for their first album _Fallen_ which comes out March 4th...ahh....not soon enough for me! ;p  I highly recommend the group, they sound absolutely wonderful.

There's a song in there I'm dying to use for Cate but must wait for the right moment to give the words the best impact. 

LOL I know you all must think I'm nutz going crazy over music and all, but its really challenging creating the illusion of music/performance in the medium of boards/words.  I thought about linking to music, but I wasn't sure if it would spoil the illusion created by melding the lyrics with the scene.

Anyway enough babble for today.  Ta-ta!


----------



## reapersaurus

HOLY ...  umm...   $hitake mushrooms!!

Kit, I was going to email you about Evanescence and some of their song lyrics.
I heard 'em on the radio, and didn't know that was their song on the Daredevil soundtrack.
I was blown away - best rock sound in a couple years, and thought they were right up your alley.

When looking thru their lyrics, I noticed also how well-suited they were to the game.
In fact, I was going to mention how scarily perfect the lyrics to Even in Death are for Nikolai (not necessarily the music), and how appropriate Lies might be for Nathanial vis a vis his feelings for Sabrina.

oops. Now that I mentioned them, you might not want to use them - you might have noticed those already, of course...
Actually, looking at more lyrics of their's, there are quite a few that could be perceived as good for one character or another.
Delicious.

As for melding music and posts, I attempted to do the multimedia approach for The Heroes of the Worlds game, using pictures and even sound clips from the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness movies whenever I could to better illustrate Ash's lines that I posted. It's a lot of work, but I think it pays off whenever you can add another component to posts.

P.S. What was the second song that you had Caitlyn perform?
I looked for the lyrics online, but couldn't find them.
P.P.S. How is Evenescence punk?


----------



## KitanaVorr

That wasn't the song I was thinking about, but that one is nice too.

The multimedia (sound effects, music themes, pictures) approach worked really well with Cowboy Bebop game and I was going to use some of that for the Resident Evil game to provide the right spooky atmosphere.  I'm using multimedia in all of my games that I DM right now, but  not too much so that its a nice little addition with it does appear.

The one she was singing to Nathaniel?
"Just Perfect" by Tracy Bonham
Quite delicious indeed...and not very well known either.

Evanescence songs are a mix of all kind of things and when you check out their CD, you'll see that they have a myraid of approaches which btw I absolutely love in a group.


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Evanescence songs are a mix of all kind of things and when you check out their CD, you'll see that they have a myraid of approaches which btw I absolutely love in a group. *



I got some of their older stuff (which one fan site says was only on a CD run of 100 - good thing you can find them still elsewhere ) and was impressed with their piano-based sound, with strings and choirs thrown in on the newer stuff even more prominently.

This kind of hard-to-define music reminds me of V.A.S.T. - if you haven't heard his first album, you NEED to. Vych and I are pretty sure you'd like him.
And I swear I hear influences of Dream Theater in Evenescence as well, but it's not a direct influence perhaps. (listen to _Wait for Sleep _ and others)


----------



## Shalimar

Well, this is where Sabrina asks if she can be a princess.  What do you think?  Would Calebros have indulged her since no one came forward?

And why would no one come forward to be prince?  Was the process difficult?  I would bet there are as many would be Princes and Primogen in the room as there are Kindred, Sabrina included.


----------



## Jemal

Well, I know Jemal would've if he wasn't so newly made.  Now though...


----------



## Shalimar

Well, he should support Nathan if he wants power.  Nathan is old enough to know all the ins and outs and pull it off, and he could give Jemal a nice Cushy position if he wanted.  For kindred as new as all of us are it would be best to attach to powerful people like Aisling, Nathanial, Elizabeth, Carrick, and whoever else is likely to become a primogen or the prince.  If you try to grab power, those above are likely to see you as a rival, something not very likely survivable by the likes of us neonates.


----------



## reapersaurus

absolutely, Shal.
The leading vampires in NY have been vampires for almost 150 years, some of them.

That just slightly trumps our 6 month term.  

I'm curious, too, why noone came forward.
I'll bet the Harpies already have weighed and measured all contenders and have picked who they will back for the princedom...


----------



## Catulle

A footnote (which is, typically, now a header...) to say I've updated the NPC roster on p12 again.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Kalanyr

Excuse me is there any chance I could join this game please? Or is it full ?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Where's the link to the NPC roster?

I know I used to host it for Ash, but I don't have any updated stuff anymore.

Also, for Caitlyn's performance rolls, can you roll them ahead of time so I can get an idea of what kind of performance to writeup for her?  Thanks


----------



## Catulle

To get up to date,

I'm pretty happy with things at the moment; the workload's not too heavy, so if everybody else is cool with the idea of taking on another player, I am. Krizzel made some noises of interest but never got back to me, so...

The mention I made was to the list on page 12 of this thread, with appearance stats for everybody in the scene; I have updated the .doc, which Ash has updated on the .pdf, which I have... somewhere.

I didn't realise you had it hosted - I asked Reaper and Vych to host the other one. I'll mail copies out to both of you asap.

Cate's Performance (now diff. 7) cha/perf - 10,9,9,7,6,6,5,4,2 reroll 2 = 4 successes; enough to cut through the confusion and gain attention, appreciation, even.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *
> I didn't realise you had it hosted - I asked Reaper and Vych to host the other one. I'll mail copies out to both of you asap.
> *




Nyah its better to have it in just one place.  LOL, just let me know where the link is to the pdfs or any other documents that you've got written up for the game and I'll be fine


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Catulle _*
> I'm pretty happy with things at the moment; the workload's not too heavy, so if everybody else is cool with the idea of taking on another player, I am. Krizzel made some noises of interest but never got back to me, so...
> *




I don't know about Krizzel.  I know he did the character sheet and all, but I think he's still stumped on the huge question and answer thing.


----------



## Shalimar

er... ah

Who is ferret?  he posted his character in the Rogues gallery thread.  And Kalanyr, this is the thread for questions, not the rogues gallery.


----------



## Kalanyr

Having been informed it costs more points to be of lower generations than normal whats the current cost/generation scheme ?


----------



## reapersaurus

I think this has gotten out of hand for a second.

Who  is Ferret?
Why did he post his character to the Rogue's Gallery without approval?
Why did he make his character ANOTHER Tremere?

I for one would like to ask Kalanyr (since he didn't give any info) what his background for playing Vampire is.
I'm sure that if he's looking at joining at this late date, he knows how uncommon it is and he has probably played before. (I play with him in the Heroes of the World game)

Kal - you actually read every post that this pedantic group has typed?!
Man, my hat's off to you if you've trudged thru our little melodrama this far - could I ask that if you join, you play a character of a clan that isn't yet represented?
I'd think that would bring more to the game (the virtual "table", if you will) than if you play a clan that's already got players.
Unless you have a very cool character idea that can enhance another player of that same clan...

And as for my reason for posting - 
the Player's Guide is at http://home.attbi.com/~rpgs/NewYorkByNight.pdf , but that's the older one.
Soon it will be replaced by the one that (I think) Catulle has been working on.

And if you want it, I'm planning on taking down the mp3 file I linked to sometime tomorrow (not a ton of space).


----------



## Kalanyr

Reaper- No I've never played before, I've wanted to but never found a group. 

Ah, a non-represented clan ? Is Giovani acceptable ? Judging by the background Tzimensce would not be.  My preference would have been Tremere but you do have a lot of those already I see.


----------



## Catulle

Hiya folks,

I think it's probably best to give some kind of overview on this, so I'll try to present an organised front (bear with me, last night was a very heavy one).

1) Who is ferret? This may have been asked before, but I'm a little thrown by this. If it's Kalanyr's MUP, just mention it.

2) Generally speaking, we seem to have a decent balance of pretty prolific posters at the moment, given the time it's taken to establish their characters (still far from complete, in my opinion), adding another character _at this stage_ looks to be unwise. I've cast about a little for advice on this, and it all seems pretty cohesive on this point.

3) As I mentioned earlier, we've still got one 'prospective' who may still be at large. If we were to take on another player/character without letting him have first refusal, I don't think that'd be especially fair. I intend to contact him again, in any case.

4) That being said, I think it's best for the game not to admit anybody new until either the game's coherent enough to support more input without fragmenting, or (heaven help us) we lose a player. In that case, I'd be happy to take Kalanyr's details, maybe chat things over and, if it's he wants, put him on the 'waiting list'. I still can't make any promises at this stage, however.

Otherwise, you could consider opening another Vampire game on the lists. There has certainly been enough interest shown that it could prove viable. I'm sire somebody'd be up for storytelling.

Regards and appologies,

Barry


----------



## Kalanyr

Ferret is not a MUP of mine. 

Sure I'm happy enough to go on the waiting list. I wasn't really expecting to get in at all.


----------



## reapersaurus

I updated Nikolai :
reduced age when Embraced to 33 (5 years after losing his Victoria).
Added experience.
used 2 to get Ritual
changed Demeanor to Conformist
added Dark Secret flaw
added Occult Library background
added equipment


----------



## Shalimar

Isn't our knowing he has a dark secret counter-productive?    don't mind me, I'm just the annoyance fairy.


----------



## Catulle

Kalanyr - Okay. I shall certainly keep you in mind. Given you've posted here, I know how to get in touch.

Shalimar - Of course, the existance of the flaw could be used to heighten the anticipation...

Regards,

Barry


Who is now over being the beer fairy.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Okay!

I'm starting the new Caitlyn trend...giving her theme music now for different scenes, different emotions etc.  Hopefully that will add to the experience.  Test out the links that I edited in and let me know if it works for ya'all!


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *ya'all! *



ya'all?!?

quick!
stone her!
stone the Southerner before her wicked ways corrupt tha lot of ya'all.

Agh! I've said "ya'll" -  
look - I've said it again!
Haaaaallllpp!

P.S. I like the addition of the song links.


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *ya'all?!?
> 
> quick!
> stone her!
> stone the Southerner before her wicked ways corrupt tha lot of ya'all.
> 
> Agh! I've said "ya'll" -
> look - I've said it again!
> Haaaaallllpp!
> 
> P.S. I like the addition of the song links. *




After being stuck in New York for the last four years...I miss being a southerner so much!

Haaalp?!

and

YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL YA'ALL ....

*ducks reaper's stone*

ha ha you mi-OW!


----------



## Shalimar

Funny kit.

Now I know that using disciplines in public might not be a good idea, and especially on people who might catch it, but Sabrina doesn't, so please don't take it personally anyone if you get zapped by her.


----------



## Vychtorya

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Who is now over being the beer fairy. *



(this is reaper)
I'm picturing this hairy, pot-bellied guy in a too-tight tutu, toting beer cans around.

ugh - nice mental image, Barry -   
hope it wasn't "that" kind of party...  

kitana - so the theme is purely ephemeral - no direct link to a particular post, or action - just an overall impressio of what the scene sounds like to you?
If so, that's an interesting idea - and of course, the chosen song is one of the best I've heard - I looked for it for months after the movie came out.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *(this is reaper)
> kitana - so the theme is purely ephemeral - no direct link to a particular post, or action - just an overall impressio of what the scene sounds like to you?
> If so, that's an interesting idea - and of course, the chosen song is one of the best I've heard - I looked for it for months after the movie came out. *




hehe

Its on Moulin Rouge 2 - Bolero, Artist Simon Standage, Composer Steve Sharples and I love it.  Yes, its purely ephemeral.  Sort of the theme I've been listening to write the scenes.

Anyway, I picked it because I like how it starts out with the soft piano and humming - which is Cate.  But then it begins to pick up, sort of how she's getting introduced to a darker world and yet feeling once and for exhilaratingly free.

There's at least four or five songs I have ready and waiting for her for different scenes.  I have the exact one I want for her after she is embraced.  I have one for a very nice dance scene with whichever man she takes a fancy to.  If you think her singing scenes were interesting written, wait until you see me write a scene where she's dancing...hehe...lots of fun!

I sort of think in scenes that I want to do prompted by the music I listen to, not really an overall plot line.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Hey! I'm from Alabama! It don't get much more southern.

PS - I feel for you Kit.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Catulle said:
			
		

> *
> Otherwise, you could consider opening another Vampire game on the lists. There has certainly been enough interest shown that it could prove viable.  *




I'd love to see a Sabbat game. I want to play a Tzimisce bad.


----------



## Shalimar

I don't think you could really do a Sabbat game on these boards.  To do the setting justice it would have to be fairly graphic and gritty.  Much darker then the boards allow.  I think keeping this game sanitized enough for the boards  might be a chore, but hopefully not.  Sabbat though would probably be better on a board of its own, like the msn free communities.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Have we got a restraint on how far we can push the envelope here? I was under the impression that all was good (within reason) as long as you put up some kind of warning.

That said, I havn't heard anything official from the moderators.


----------



## reapersaurus

I've never even considered playing a Sabbat - that is WAY too much indulging of dark material for my tastes.

If I EVEN entertained those kind of thoughts with a character, I can pretty much be sure that my character's actions would not meet the approval of "Eric's Grandmother".

As far as Vampire games go, I think there's enough player interest - the difficult part is getting a Storyteller - remember how difficult it was for this game to find one - thank Barry he stepped in - it would have been a shame to see this much roleplaying have been missed out on - it's unique to have this much deep roleplay from the games I've been in in the In Character Forum.

I just don't see things like Shalimar risking her character by having Sabrina use an active power in Elysium, just to play her true.
I enjoyed that immensely.
I'm hoping Vych can reply before Catulle has to step in with an official response, which COULD potentially be quite strict, if the Sherrif or someone has to intervene in what is obviously an example where Sabrina's elders have been remiss in sending her to Elysium with no food, OR training...  
I could see how her elders would even be reprimanded for little Sabrina's actions...


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Back when I played table-top Vampire, we played Sabbat characters a lot. My favorite clan was Tzimisce and my character rejected his humanity and followed the Path of Metamorphosis.

Yea... he was a sick bastard.

I'll have to admit, I came away from more than one session feeling "dirty". Still, it was fun and I'd enjoy doing it again.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I was curious so I posted this: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42988


----------



## KitanaVorr

I was wondering about how far we can push things here myself, especially considering that sometime in the future Cate is going to be embraced...and an embrace is always sort of a violent-erotic thing.  I mean, you get a blood-sucking that gives you a really high adrenalin-pleasure response, then you die, then you get brought back into the horrific pain of becoming a vampire that basically stalks humans...our themes are pretty adult just on that alone not to mention the seduction that happens.

When this game starts going full steam after we figure out our characters better and their place, if we feel stifled on the boards regarding whatever codes they have...do you think we should move it off to somewhere else, like Yahoo groups or something?


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _*
> I'm hoping Vych can reply before Catulle has to step in with an official response, which COULD potentially be quite strict, if the Sherrif or someone has to intervene in what is obviously an example where Sabrina's elders have been remiss in sending her to Elysium with no food, OR training...
> I could see how her elders would even be reprimanded for little Sabrina's actions... *




Can another vampire stop another int time from using a power like that if there's no warning?  

I do know that Cate would be the first affected by it and she's within close proximity to Sabrina.  I think her reaction alone would clue people.  I'm just waiting for Catulle before I post anything in response.  Does he have to roll for the Potence?


----------



## Shalimar

> I just don't see things like Shalimar risking her character by having Sabrina use an active power in Elysium, just to play her true.
> I enjoyed that immensely.
> I'm hoping Vych can reply before Catulle has to step in with an official response, which COULD potentially be quite strict, if the Sherrif or someone has to intervene in what is obviously an example where Sabrina's elders have been remiss in sending her to Elysium with no food, OR training...
> I could see how her elders would even be reprimanded for little Sabrina's actions...




Well, if I was cnsidering my actions ot of character it would take away from my enjoyment of her, so  had to do what she would do, it wasn't realy of question of should she do it, but, would she do it, and the answer is an unequivicable yes.  She just doesn't know any better.  

I doubt it could be placed entirely at Nathan's feet if something happens.
A)He wasn't the one who embraced her
B)She was embraced the night before, most kindred are kept in seclusion until they are presented
C)Attendance was manditory, so he didn't have a choice about bringing her

If it brings any heat down it should bring some back down on Elizabe if Nathan has to make any explinations


----------



## Catulle

From the V:tM book, FYI as regards Sabrina's use of Awe (presence 1):-

"Awe amplifies the sublime magnetism this discipline gives the vampire. Those near the vampire suddenly desire to be closer to her and are very receptive to her point of view. Awe is extremely useful for mass communication. It matters little what is said - the hearts of those affected lean toward the vampire's opinion. The weak want to agree with her, even if the strong-willed resist, they soon find themselves outnumbered. Awe can turn a chancy deliberation into a certain resolution in the vampire's favour almost before her opponants know that the tide has turned.

"Despite the intensity of this attraction, those smitten do not lose their sense of self-preservation. Danger breaks the spell of fascination, as does leaving the area. Those subject to Awe will remember how they felt in the vampire's presence, however. This will influence their reactions should they ever encounter her again."


The roll generates the number of people affected in the vicinity who can see her face starting with those with the lowest willpower. A vampire could spend 1 willpower to resist for a trun, and leave in that turn (thus avoiding the effects). Presence is a pretty subtle power under most circumstances (at least, it's described that way - Dread Gaze isn't at all...), and you'd have to be pretty clued in even as a vampire to notice straight off the bat that you were being affected (or if for example the user was a deadly enemy, once you left the effect's vicinity). Of course, given time and opportunity to consider...

Vis a vis 'exceedign the limits', I think it's best to cross that bridge when (if) we come to it. We may never...

On the other hand, I suspect a Sabbat game would not go down too well on these boards. Pity. I like the Sabbat (and they're not necessarily about all-out schlockfests either).

Reaper - or, given there's no Prince, it could (more usefully?) get those elders blackmailed...

Shalimar - of course, one of the 'unwritten rules' of camarilla society is that you are allowed to do exactly and no more than you can get away with doing (without reflecting poorly on one's elders).

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

hmm then would cate's reaction be too much?


----------



## Catulle

Maybe just a hint on the strong side - if you want to mollify it a little, I won't bear it too heavily in mind in my next post to give you some edit time.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

I will try to post as often as I can over the next couple of days. I have a really bad case of the flu. Hopefully Reap will dodge it.

I did enjoy reading all the posts tonight / this morning I guess - in and out of character.

Good use of presence Shal! 

I LOVE the interaction between Nikolai and Gabriel! 

And Kit, I love the music links! It's nice to see someone else feels music like I do.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Maybe a hint - if you want to mollify it a little, I won't bear it too heavily in mind in my next post to give you some edit time.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Barry *




After thinking about it some, I figured that Cate's reactions to vampire powers would probably be slightly stronger than a normal vamp because she doesn't know the power exists and she doesn't have any "supernatural" effects either.

What do you think?  If so, then I'll always make her reaction one hint stronger than the average vamp.  

EDIT:

I did modify my post to take it down a notch to more like "oh I forgot something" instead of "oh! child!"


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Vychtorya _*
> I will try to post as often as I can over the next couple of days. I have a really bad case of the flu. Hopefully Reap will dodge it.
> *




aww!  that sucks ;(

Well I hope you feel better!  And since Barry won't be posting this weekend either at least you won't miss too much of the major action.

So get lots of rest and return to us all better for another fast-paced round of posting next week!


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

How much does Gabriel know about Wainwright? How much does Gabriel know that Wainwright knows about him?


----------



## Catulle

Reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I'm picturing this hairy, pot-bellied guy in a too-tight tutu, toting beer cans around.
> 
> ugh - nice mental image, Barry -
> hope it wasn't "that" kind of party...  *




I only just spotted this... and I must categorically state that, of the many things I am, hairy and overweight aren't even close to being on the list. But it was 'that' kind of party. Alas.


It's worth my time, I think, to make some general comments about Presence, just for bearing in mind as part of the cut and thrust of roleplaying conversation and reactions, again, from the V:tM book:

"Quite aside from the deliberate effects, Presence conveys upon the vampire an indescribable mystique. She stands out in any crowd, drawing the interest (and often desire) of those around her even when she's merely standing still. The higher the vampire's Presence, the greater this allure and the more powerful its impact on others"

I'd add the house rule that this 'passive' effect can be dampened for a scene with the expenditure of a willpower point, if that's cool by everybody.

In practice, we see that of our PCs, Max has 2, Sabrina 1, and Vychtorya 3 dots of Presence. Interestingly, of the group assembled together at the moment in Elysium, Carrick and Nathaniel both have equal to or more then all three. Perhaps why Sabrina felt 'cut out' of the conversation? Even the very basic applications of the presence discipline are more potent than this passive effect, after all.
To contrast, the Kindred with the most Presence in the room are Valentine and Qadir - but both manifest in different ways, according to their demeanours (Valentine radiates good cheer and 'pleasant' emotions; Qadir gives people the strong sense that he's weighing them up...). Note, however, that this effect is in addition to normal social attributes - think of it as 'weight of demeanour' and I don't think you're far off the mark.

Ash - Gabriel will be aware of pretty much the information on the .pdf about Wainwright. He may suspect (but not know) that the dwarf regent knows a lot more about him...

Kit - It's  not a matter of 'stronger reaction, IMO. One of the beauties of Presence that it is just as effective against a Methuselah as it is against a mortal. The advantage of being a vampire in this case is in having the savvy to realise that you're being affected and take steps to resist.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Catulle

Ash - You can't spend willpower to resist Telepathy, if that's what you meant on the IC thread. The only defence against it is basically having a high willpower and/or the user being unable/unwilling to spend the necessary willpower to use to power on another vampire.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Oops. I forgot. I knew a willpower point was in there somewhere.


----------



## reapersaurus

yeah, that's where it gets kind of confusing/frustrating for me.

Catulle- how much should we keep the New York by Night book in mind?
I know that you are liable to change anything in it, at any time, but I've found that it really helps me flesh out some of the details to make the game more enriching and full-bodied for me.
I know NYbN is not required reading, and that the information contained within does not trump any info in the thread, but... basically, isn't it a good resource to shed some light on some character's motivations, and help us to interact better?
I know there's a danger of leaning on the info too much, or meta-gaming, but I for one trust you guys to not meta-game (which Shalimar - that's the reason why I listed Nikolai's 'Dark' Secret Flaw - because I trust that just because you players know of it, your character do NOT.)

As for Wainwright - from NYbN, he'd be Gabriel's biggest ally, wouldn't he?


----------



## reapersaurus

Catulle - since you seem to like to talk about Vampire:tM mechanics (and I love to), is it OKK to point oput that I think it's interesting that you are 'allowing' a passive effect of Presence to influence social interaction, even in Elysium, yet you told me that Auspex (which is a completely internal, non-noticeable power) isn't accepted to be used in Elysium.

 

Could you help me understand how you're approaching and differentiating the 2?

edit: please don't view this as being argumentative - I just like to talk about gaming approaches, and want to see how you view these powers.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Just my 2 cents.

If presence has a passive effect that cannot be helped by the vampire, I would say it is ok in Elysium simply because the vampire can't help it.

If the passive effect is rather weak (which it seems to be), maybe it isn't a problem. After all, it doesn't cause you to behave any way you wouldn't normally behave. It just causes those people to stand out a little. That could be more harmful to the vampire than beneficial.

However, if there is a way to deactivate it, it should be at least frowned upon. Assuming of course, anyone is aware of it. If it is that passive, most wouldn't notice anything supernatural was going on.

I definatly think that use of the actual powers (awe, majesty etc.) should be prohibited, but that has already been stated.


----------



## Catulle

No problems at all, either of you.

The distinction, as I see it, is that concentration is required to use Auspex - the vampire chooses when to use it, and it's a power, rather than a 'side effect'. With 'passive Presence', it's a matter of the vampire not having anything approaching active control over the target, etc. (which is why I proposed the house rule for your scrutiny.. note the shift to an (expensive) ammount of control over its use which is at the centre of the idea). In the same way that it's not an offense against the spirit of Elysium to be an attractive person, it isn't to have Presence and be, well, an attractive person. On the other hand, snooping on others is quite against the notion of neutral ground (note, always, that doing something and getting caught are very, very different things).

Likewise, the 'active' use of Obfuscate can be permissible on Elysium for some reasons (Nosferatu concealing their hideous visages, for example) and yet not for others (hiding to spy on others). Mind you if they're doing it, they've likely got away with if in the case of Obfuscate, so perhaps it's not the best example.

Note that Animalism, Dementation and Dominate have 'passive' features as well, varying in usefulness and subtlety.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

Hey Kit 

I just got to read the OOC thread. Based on the info there and the latest IC post, I edited my last post so it would flow better and make more sense.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Hey Kit
> 
> I just got to read the OOC thread. Based on the info there and the latest IC post, I edited my last post so it would flow better and make more sense. *




=P

that messes me up though

I think it was fine the way it was before.  Could you please put it back that way?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Oh and to explain why in case you were wondering.

I know this is specific, but once people react to a post with their own post, it really sort of messes people if you change it later on down the line.

See what Vychtorya did was highly improper and it stands out in Caitlyn's mind so it affects how she sees her.  So I wrote my responses after that with everything you had written in mind.

Could you please put it back exactly the way it was?

Thanks!

Kit


----------



## Shalimar

I have to agree with both of you.  You should be able to edit your posts, it only makes sense, but there has to be a limit.

Once someone reacts to your post, then you have to keep the actions the same or the game loses some of its coherece.  So long as you keepyour actions, editing for spelling is fine.


----------



## KitanaVorr

I see you fixed it!

Thanks Vych!  Awesome


----------



## Vychtorya

I did, since you were right that I should not retract a post once it has affected others. And next time I will note when Vych is using her "powers".

But I do ask a favor that you read it again so you will notice that Vych never shoved Cait. She only tried to "urge" her back into the conversation at hand. People do that all the time at parties when one seems distracted. To call it "a breech of formal protocol" was a little harsh. Was that in character or out of character?

The reason I edited it was because Catulle's post seemd to negate Vych's actions all together; well at least the way I read it anyway.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *I did, since you were right that I should not retract a post once it has affected others. And next time I will note when Vych is using her "powers".
> 
> But I do ask a favor that you read it again so you will notice that Vych never shoved Cait. She only tried to "urge" her back into the conversation at hand. People do that all the time at parties when one seems distracted. To call it "a breech of formal protocol" was a little harsh. Was that in character or out of character?
> 
> The reason I edited it was because Catulle's post seemd to negate Vych's actions all together; well at least the way I read it anyway. *




Oh yes I know she never shoved her, but Cate is sort of affected by Sabrina right now and any attempt to remove her from the child will not be seen as a polite friendly action.  So from her point of view it felt like a shove even though it wasn't.

Was what in or out of character?

As for the breech of protocol, I'm following the ettiquette rules of a formal high society party, well those that are thrown in modern times mostly.  Also bear in mind that Cate (and I do as well) comes from a very wealthy Asian family which makes formal social parties even more full of ettiquette rules than usual.

If she had touched her elbow and manuvered her, it would be okay, but when you put your arm around someone so familiarly and move them especially when you just met them is a breech of ettiquette.

If it wasn't for the fact that they were in a formal social setting, Cate wouldn't care a dime about the whole thing at all, but because of the party that they're in and from what she knows about Vychtorya's background so far, she's surprised and off put.

Does that makes sense?  LOL or am I rambling again...I tend to do that late at night.

P.S. yeah i know how you feel about the negation, that happened to me a couple of times, but I just said whatever and let it go.


----------



## reapersaurus

This has been very hard for me to not post on.

I feel gagged here, instead of being able to freely speak.


----------



## Shalimar

umm.... then don't, feel constrained I mean.  If you have something to say, please do.


----------



## reapersaurus

trust me, I can't.
Thanks for the offer, though.
Seriously.


----------



## Shalimar

Well, if you can't say it on the boards, then email me.  I don't like it if someone feels like they can't say something.  Tell me, if its something I did maybe we can see that it doesn't happen again, or that we reach an understanding where both sides are happy, yes?


----------



## Catulle

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *The reason I edited it was because Catulle's post seemd to negate Vych's actions all together; well at least the way I read it anyway. *




Oops. That wasn't my intent at all. Sorry, I shall see what I can do about that...

BTW - if I've done it before, *please* bring it to my attention. I still have a touch of the newbieitis here and any help is gladly received.

Regards

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

*


			
				Catulle said:
			
		


Oops. That wasn't my intent at all. Sorry, I shall see what I can do about that...

BTW - if I've done it before, please bring it to my attention. I still have a touch of the newbieitis here and any help is gladly received.

Regards

Barry 

Click to expand...



Please leave what you posted. I REALLY liked it. It was the perfect reaction for Carrick. I even heard a song in my head for them as I read it; Insatiable by Darren Hayes.  *


----------



## KitanaVorr

Just to add.

I really like how everything is going.  I like a conflict between PCs and I love it when characters make mistakes because perfect characters are really boring.  Mistakes make relationships interesting.

Cate has a lot of flaws and I hope you've seen hints of them already as they will play prominently in her decisions and opinions about people.

 

ta ta!


----------



## Catulle

A quickie post now, a biggie later.

From Ash on IC:-
OOC: Any chance I heard that?

We'll give Gabriel a per/alertness roll at diff 8 (low volume, since Estevez is banking on Nikolai using Auspex and Gabriel having it too, but the room's getting emptier). My sucktastic dice give him 8,5,5,4,3,1,1 (ever notice there always seems to be a one...?). So no he doesn't hear the words, but he doesn't botch either.

Per/Alertness diff 6 - 9,8,8,8,7,5,5 gives an ironic 5 successes. He notices Eugenio say ~something~ to Nikolai as he just got out of earshot.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Catulle said:
			
		

> *....but he doesn't botch either. *




LOL! You botch! You have been stricken deaf!


----------



## Catulle

And thus begins what I expect will be a veritable barrage of language on my part ahead of my sneaking off to a three day live Vampire game (yes, I know, desperately sad). But the bar stays open for, like, forever.

So, first up with the verbal shotgun, in the style of a 'game review to date':-

We're in a process of winding down the first scene, and that involves two things (mechanically) first, experience points and second setting up the next scenes. I have plenty of things in mind, and my main idea was to post the skeleton of where the cast was, at the start of scene 2 (parts a-c) contextualise the set-up and let you folks do all the 'set dressing' yourselves - should keep you busy over the weekend, right? I'm of a mind to get a little ambitious in terms of split scenes, nonlinear timelines and (gasp) take you good people off Elysium... I'll post these in the morning (about 11 hours from now) in a seperate post if that's okay.

That said, I like the overall shape of the game so far; we've had good, solid, characterisation all round with the advantage (for me) that I think I know all of the PCs much better than I did when I took over (perhaps I'm stating the obvious here).

Nevertheless, there have been some 'humps' which have rattled things form time to time. Usually, these have been down to disconnects between 'game reality' and 'real reality', the World: of Darkness syndrome, as my house calls it. Real world models won't necessarily serve you well in defining the fictional one, just as you don't try to navigate London with a copy of Neverwhere in hand. There are some pretty fundamental differences in the setup of the game world which will trip up the casual observer, rules of etiquette are different, as fits the basis of the (fictional) world - Kindred society mirrors (and shapes, though to a lesser extent) that of the mortals, so you'll tend to find archaic notions at work more frequently (as befits a static vampiric society with its roots deep in the Western-European Renaissance era dug parasite-deep into modern society). To this end, if confused or uncertain, either just ask me or use your character's skills as a guide.

I've played a bit with different writing styles throughout (I hope that was apparant), for example keeping the melodrama high about the Toreador/Ventrue and the intrigue thick about the Brujah/Tremere. I think I've even seen people responding to that style (e.g. Kit and Vych posting in a more exaggerated, 'gothic melodrama' style in similar increments as the posts I was doing for Carrick and Nathan), I hope I did. Did I? I suspect it connects in to my own preferences in the way I relate to the world through language (you guys seem pretty musical, more so than I), so I'd like to get your thoughts on how I approach scenes in the future. While a style might 'work' in one scene, it may fall apart in the next (though melodramatic combat could be interesting as a concept, I think it'd be too labour-intensive to be worthwhile). A little less gothic and a little more punk is in order, I think. What do you?

Of especial note in the style for the future is the growing emphasis I hope to place on the unknown, mystery and horror aspects of the game. While the 'narrative view' has worked great in setting up a central perspective for an introductory scene, and has helped the characters hook up, I'd like to see a shift away from that in later scenes, focusing inwards - what are the characters ~thinking~ at each turn? I like the italicised thought-processes when I see them (as I do the explainations for action), I'd love to see more of that to bring out the 'personal horror' since it's so core to the game theme, and since it comes up rarely in tabletop play and almost never in live (due to the... well, internal nature of such things). Let's play to the strengths of our medium, yes?

How does that sound; too long? Too pretentious? Let me know in either case. Even if you want me to stop writing these essays all over the thread.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Sounds good to me.

As for me, since Caitlyn has no idea what Kindred society, etiquette and all, is or even what Kindred is, I think I'll keep her grounded more in realistic modern knowledge as befits her character until her change.  So she's still going to think all the archaic stuff is odd.  I think that part will be nice to see sort of the disconnect between the human world and the kindred world...serves to emphasize their differences.

The melodrama is nice as is the gothic theme and I certainly do respond to however you dictate the mood to be.  Cate though is primarily wild and punkish when she gets free of the polite society world...a little bit reckless.

I've been trying to Caitlyn focused inwards with her posts, her views of everyone around her, her thoughts of what is happening so I hope that's been helping with the mood you're trying to set.

P.S. You totally threw me in the loop for Nathan's response to Caitlyn's look of displeasure.  Wasn't expecting that at all.


----------



## Shalimar

He threw me for a loop as well, and I love it.  He seems fragile, sort of like a little boy who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way.  Its very endearing, especially with the hurt and pain he is feeling.  I could see Caitlyn falling for him if he keeps up the way he is going, exoecially from what Kit has told me


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Just wanted to say that I'm having a great time and I think what you are doing is perfect Barry. Keep it up.

Glad that Elysium is over. Looking forward to really cutting loose with this character. My favorite aspect so far has been the political scene. I like the subtility of it.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Just wanted to say that I'm having a great time and I think what you are doing is perfect Barry. Keep it up.
> 
> Glad that Elysium is over. Looking forward to really cutting loose with this character. My favorite aspect so far has been the political scene. I like the subtility of it. *




I'd love a chance for Cate to run into Gabriel.  I think they share a few things in common and it would make an interesting scene.



Hey at least this one isn't as pyscho as the sniper...


----------



## reapersaurus

just so we all know, I've emailed Ferret with a WTF about his re-post of his unapproved character to the Rogue's Gallery.

I'll be requesting Darkness to delete the post (again)  to keep the Character Gallery clear.

Kit - I'm stumped - what do Cait and Gabe have in common?


----------



## Catulle

Hiya all,


Okay, given that scene one's a wrap:- here's what I had in mind for the next scenes, fill in the gaps yourselves (within reason)...

The time is perhaps a week and a half after the Elysium party, and all the initial action occurs on the same night (though at varying times). We'll call it Wednesday the 11th of December, 2002. It's a chill night too cold for snow and the streets of the city are eerily quiet (for NY) even considering the time of year and the midweek day. Weather forecasts indicate snows are on the way, and the first of the yearly cases of exposure-killed hoboes have started to roll in...

_____________

Max has heard little from Morgan in the last week, but has been introduced to the other Brujah (on the NYbN .pdf - Marlena, Katherine and archon Bell) through Elizabeth. Tonight, though, he received a strange telephone call. The man on the other end didn't give his name, but knew Max's. He said Morgan had asked him to get in touch about some work for the city's kindred, and indicated that Max should meet him in the foyer of the appartment building in five minutes. Max has gathered what posession he thought might be needed, and was just stepping out of his front door in time to run into...

Caitlyn, fresh from a meal out with the Knights, who have not yet had a gig as well-paying as Mr Valentine's and diving through her appartment en route to the Montagues' for her weekly sining lesson with Sabrina. The first lesson went...(well, you tell me) and she's good for time at the moment. Last week, Jemal mentioned perhaps cutting tonight's lesson short to get out of the house for a bit and seemed to have something specific in mind. On exiting the elevator, she catches Max leaving his front door.
_____________


Gabriel and Nikolai have at least shown willing, providing Qadir with skills he doesn't possess in his task of keeping the masquerade. Gabriel's Dominate affinity and Nikolai's investigative prowess have melded well with the sheriff's social and physical skills, and eased his task in the last few nights, to the point where a professional relationship is developing. So far, Qadir has not alluded to ambitions of becoming Prince, but keeps his own counsel much of the time when not working.

The scene sees the pair waiting to meet with Qadir in a downtown diner, their usual pickup point when working with the sheriff. The place is deserted, save for the waitress, cook and a clearly homeless man taking advantage of the refill policy to stay warm for just a few hours longer.
_____________

The Montague family wait Caitlyn to arrive in an hour for Sabrina's second singing lesson (how'd the first go?). Carrick Ashton and his protege are visiting, and a trip out to Antiquities is planned by the two elders for later that evening. They have withdrawn to Nathaniel's study for the moment to discuss their business, leaving the trio of neonates in a plush lounge where Jemal writes in a ledger, finishing a few duties for his sire, leaving Sabrina and Vychtorya to talk, though he contributes occasionally.

In the intervening time, Sabrina has had the use of her blood-gifts explained to her, or rather how not to use them (on other Kindred and in 'Elysiums'). She's unsure of what an Elysium is, but Nathaniel indicated she wouldn't be going to another any time soon. Jemal has helped her feed in much the same manner as the night of the party since.

Carrick took Vychtorya home, and explained the child's use of Awe on her. He indicated the breach of decorum, but alluded to Nathaniel's difficult position. The two, it would seem, are allies of a long-standing nature, and while sympathetic, Carrick has obtained some compensatory concessions (in the form of information) from the Ventrue for his charge's misbehaviour. Still, he thinks Vychtorya should be careful, or at least aware that the childe is, by blood, Brujah (with all the self-control that entails). He has asked her to set aside a suite tonight at Antiquiites for himself and Nathaniel to meet with another elder.
_____________


I hope that gives you something to start building on; best of luck and I'll be back in touch Monday.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Catulle

D'oh!  (_8(l)

I knew I'd forgotten something - XP!

As of the end of the scene, everybody gets 1 xp automatically, 1 xp for roleplaying and 1 xp for learning curve (total 3 xp). Nothing for heroism, but no surprises there.

Contact me about spending it (though if I know Vampire players it'll come once you get 10 together...)

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Festy_Dog

Kewl, I like the scene ideas, definitely work for me. 

And are xp spent like freebie points? What are the costs for improving different things?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'd love a chance for Cate to run into Gabriel.  I think they share a few things in common and it would make an interesting scene.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey at least this one isn't as pyscho as the sniper... *




I'd like for them to get together too, but I don't see it happening any time soon. 

But yea, Cate is a refreshing character after reading about the psycho b**ch.


----------



## Shalimar

EXP costs

New Ability------------------------------------------------------3
New Path (Necromancy, Thaumaturgy)--------------------7
New Discipline--------------------------------------------------10
Attribute---------------------------------------------------------current x 4
Ability-------------------------------------------------------------current x 2
Clan Discipline---------------------------------------------------current x 5
Other Discipline-------------------------------------------------current x 7
Secondary Path-------------------------------------------------current x 4
Virtue-------------------------------------------------------------current x 2
Humanity---------------------------------------------------------current x 2
Will power-------------------------------------------------------- current


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Ashrem Bayle _*
> But yea, Cate is a refreshing character after reading about the psycho b**ch.  *




naw she's not psycho

 

she's just in love with her gun and your big target of a head

anyway...whoo hoo exp!

Shali and I talked about it and we like the idea of this being the actual first singing lesson instead of the second one.  It would be a shame to miss out on the rp potential the first one would bring.


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> Kit - I'm stumped - what do Cait and Gabe have in common? *




Hey there are some secrets (many actually) about Caitlyn people don't know.


----------



## Shalimar

So what do you think Vychtorya, did I paint the scene well or no?  I had serious writers block there, hopefully its ok.


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *Hey there are some secrets (many actually) about Caitlyn people don't know. *



Don't tell me:
she betrayed her people and is considered an amoral, dangerous traitor? 

Wow - Caitlyn grows in intrigue and flexibility every scene.  
She's a veritable psychological contortionist, from starting out a Southern Belle.


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Don't tell me:
> she betrayed her people and is considered an amoral, dangerous traitor?
> *




No that would be me 



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> Wow - Caitlyn grows in intrigue and flexibility every scene.
> She's a veritable psychological contortionist, from starting out a Southern Belle. [/B]




well she is kinda bendy that way


----------



## Shalimar

Is she gonna explain to Sabrina why she is all bendy?


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Shalimar _*
> Is she gonna explain to Sabrina why she is all bendy? *




LOL

um

No she'll make Nathaniel do it


----------



## Shalimar

Catulle, I've been thinking about Sabrina's family, and some things in it just don't add up, so I would like to change it a bit to make it fit and work with how things are actually going in the game.

The first thing is her parents, with the way things are going, I see no sane parent, ghoul or not effectively giving up their child to a vampire, even if he is the head of their family.  There are a lot of things that don't fit, so, what I would like to do is have them dying, but when Sabrina was young enough to not remember.  Effectively leaving the poor girl in her uncle's care as well as her brothers.  It would also put more weight behind the reasons for Jemal's embrace.  The parents wouldn't have been skipped over in favor of Jemal.  It also leaves her more starved for female attention, and creates more of a need in her background for the other female Player characters, if they choose to take part, or not.

When I get rid of them, it frees up 2 backgroud points previously spent on Allies 2.  I would shift it into Mentor to more fully represent Nathan, giving him 4 dots worth.

The other thing I would change is her dot of Fame over into willpower since it was a freebie dot anyway.  I don't think I really want her famous for being kidnapped.

So what does everyone think?  Is this reasonable, she isn't exactly a power house, so I don't really see it as a problem, and it fits her better then her current stats.


----------



## KitanaVorr

> _Originally posted by Shalimar _*So what does everyone think?  Is this reasonable, she isn't exactly a power house, so I don't really see it as a problem, and it fits her better then her current stats. *




I agree, it does make alot more sense to me and I don't see a problem as the parents haven't been introduced yet or really mentioned.


----------



## reapersaurus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *So what does everyone think?  Is this reasonable, she isn't exactly a power house, so I don't really see it as a problem, and it fits her better then her current stats. *



I think it sounds great, and anything that helps to better match "the atats" up to your concept of your character is a Good Thing by me.


----------



## Festy_Dog

> So what does everyone think? Is this reasonable, she isn't exactly a power house, so I don't really see it as a problem, and it fits her better then her current stats.




Yup, I give it a thumbs up.


----------



## KitanaVorr

lol

geez festy not much for conversation is max? 

EDIT:

That was probably the shortest scene in vamp history lol (probably not but it was damn short!) hehe


----------



## reapersaurus

OK, I've thought about this a LOT, and this is the culmination of hours of discussion and heartfelt consideration of the best way to say this:

Kitana - 
I'm afraid that your taking the in character posts that we type too literally.
I might have finally put my finger on it when you typed this IN CHARACTER to Max:







> Caitlyn blinked slightly as Max jumped into the elevator and leaving again after yet another quick conversation without letting her get another word in edgewise. Was this a habit with him? He had seemed like such a nice guy at the party when she had first met him and she really thought they could at least be friends.



 That's not directed to Max - that's a comment to Festy, and it properly should be in the OOC thread, in my eyes. And that's the 2nd time at least that you've commented on your distaste for his posting style in character, as Caitlyn, not as Kitana in the OOC.

If you have advice, or recommendations for Festy, than I would hope that we'd feel free to mention them in the OOC thread. He seems like he'd be open to suggestions - maybe he'd appreciate some advice - he can always say, "Thanks, but no."
I think it's damaging in the long run to be so afraid to thoughtfully post our feelings about the game, and yes - even other players - at times.
But to comment on it IN CHARACTER is much more dangerous, and potentially damaging, in my eyes.
It breaks the 4th wall that we all struggle to maintain, and tends to blur the line between player and character - a line that in this game more than any other game on ENWorld... we should try mightily to keep clear, for all our sakes.

Perhaps - What happened earlier between Cait and Vych (the "shove", saying she was being rude, etc) I think all should have, and could have been avoided with one legendarily difficult thing to do:

_Stop viewing what we type as being EXACTLY what our characters do.
Start viewing our character's actions and words thru the filter of what you know about the character._

It is considered to be a very hard thing to do, especially in Vampire: the Masquerade, due to its high component of social interaction.

Some examples:

1) Vych made her character as a master etiquette, formal party specialist.
She spent the points, and wrote the background. I think that her posts should be read with this in mind. Basically, my wife could not possibly be as refined and smooth as Vych (the character) is.
Just like if I'd play an 18 Intelligence wizard, I'd hope I wouldn't be required to roleplay as a genius to convince people of his brilliance.
So when she posted that Vych "took Cait by the hand and took Caitlyn aside", you could have read it as her doing it impeccably, as a person born to that world with those skills would.

2) As for Festy, I don't have Max's background memorized, but I think you can assume that Max (a CHARACTER Festy happens to play) didn't just hop on the elevator, not allowing Cait to get a word in edgewise.
Festy might have written it that way in a perhaps-hurried, or not-perfect post, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he meant that Max finished up the conversation properly and just left without continuing it - Max was roleplayed as being uncomfortable about the scene.

3) Once vampiric powers are brought in (Presence, Dominate), it impacts even more how a player's posts would be perceived by the reader.

In general, I think I get what you're trying to do, as a writer with the way you play Caitlyn.
It's amazing what you're writing. Really.
The way you're stringing words together is commendable. I think some parts of this game so far could be chapters in a book, they're so good at various scenes.
But when you interact with other players that don't write the same way, it seems like there are conflicts of styles.

So what do you think about these ideas?
Do they make sense?
If not, please ask for clarification before taking offense.
If you want, we can talk about it off the boards if you wish, but I don't intend any malice, have nothing to hide, and would prefer to discuss things out in the open.


----------



## Festy_Dog

Oh, well sorry about that Kit . I'll edit the post to extend the conversation. And thx Reaper, I did feel a bit shoved OOC, I was just trying to rp Max's current state: he's in a hurry to meet the guy in the lobby and wants to get off Cait's mind so she doesn't press him 'bout the gun.


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *OK, I've thought about this a LOT, and this is the culmination of hours of discussion and heartfelt consideration of the best way to say this:
> 
> Kitana -
> I'm afraid that your taking the in character posts that we type too literally.
> I might have finally put my finger on it when you typed this IN CHARACTER to Max: That's not directed to Max - that's a comment to Festy, and it properly should be in the OOC thread, in my eyes. And that's the 2nd time at least that you've commented on your distaste for his posting style in character, as Caitlyn, not as Kitana in the OOC.
> 
> If you have advice, or recommendations for Festy, than I would hope that we'd feel free to mention them in the OOC thread. He seems like he'd be open to suggestions - maybe he'd appreciate some advice - he can always say, "Thanks, but no."
> I think it's damaging in the long run to be so afraid to thoughtfully post our feelings about the game, and yes - even other players - at times.
> But to comment on it IN CHARACTER is much more dangerous, and potentially damaging, in my eyes.
> It breaks the 4th wall that we all struggle to maintain, and tends to blur the line between player and character - a line that in this game more than any other game on ENWorld... we should try mightily to keep clear, for all our sakes.
> 
> Perhaps - What happened earlier between Cait and Vych (the "shove", saying she was being rude, etc) I think all should have, and could have been avoided with one legendarily difficult thing to do:
> 
> Stop viewing what we type as being EXACTLY what our characters do.
> Start viewing our character's actions and words thru the filter of what you know about the character.
> 
> It is considered to be a very hard thing to do, especially in Vampire: the Masquerade, due to its high component of social interaction.
> 
> Some examples:
> 
> 1) Vych made her character as a master etiquette, formal party specialist.
> She spent the points, and wrote the background. I think that her posts should be read with this in mind. Basically, my wife could not possibly be as refined and smooth as Vych (the character) is.
> Just like if I'd play an 18 Intelligence wizard, I'd hope I wouldn't be required to roleplay as a genius to convince people of his brilliance.
> So when she posted that Vych "took Cait by the hand and took Caitlyn aside", you could have read it as her doing it impeccably, as a person born to that world with those skills would.
> 
> 2) As for Festy, I don't have Max's background memorized, but I think you can assume that Max (a CHARACTER Festy happens to play) didn't just hop on the elevator, not allowing Cait to get a word in edgewise.
> Festy might have written it that way in a perhaps-hurried, or not-perfect post, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he meant that Max finished up the conversation properly and just left without continuing it - Max was roleplayed as being uncomfortable about the scene.
> 
> 3) Once vampiric powers are brought in (Presence, Dominate), it impacts even more how a player's posts would be perceived by the reader.
> 
> In general, I think I get what you're trying to do, as a writer with the way you play Caitlyn.
> It's amazing what you're writing. Really.
> The way you're stringing words together is commendable. I think some parts of this game so far could be chapters in a book, they're so good at various scenes.
> But when you interact with other players that don't write the same way, it seems like there are conflicts of styles.
> 
> So what do you think about these ideas?
> Do they make sense?
> If not, please ask for clarification before taking offense.
> If you want, we can talk about it off the boards if you wish, but I don't intend any malice, have nothing to hide, and would prefer to discuss things out in the open. *




hmm

ok

1.  I never write OOC stuff in IC posts.  If its there, its there as a result of an IC action.  I do find that you think that rather offensive. This should have been in a email to Barry and me, not posted on the boards.

2. The reason Caitlyn thought that about Max was because he had done it twice to her.  When he dropped of his number and hurriedly left.  Then he's rushing around now.  

OOC-wise I know that Max has to get to his contact so he has a good excuse to rush by but IC-wise Caitlyn does not know that's the reason...she can only speculate.  

OOC-wise I know that Max doesn't want Elizabeth to suspect he might be protective of Caitlyn so he can't linger, but IC-wise Caitlyn has no idea about Elizabeth.  So if you react as you said, then I would be using OOC knowledge that Caitlyn should not know in my post.

My earlier post up there to Festy was to tease him about it, not to criticize him or anything.  I perfectly understand that Max needed to rush off to meet his contact.

3.  As I stated in an earlier post, Caitlyn does not know anything about Kindred ettiquette, she doesn't know anything about swiss ettiquette, or european ettiquette.  She is only famliar with southern + asian ettiquette.  What Vychtorya did is actually alright for the ettiquette she is familiar with BUT Caitlyn is a very strong-willed independent woman.  She doesn't not like being physically moved anywhere especially by someone she doesn't know very well at all.

4. I only react to what you post, not your stats unless Barry does a roll or its something that stat-related like appearance.  I prefer to roleplay-not stat play.  I can only react to what is in your post.  Caitlyn does not know your stats.  Caitlyn can only see your actions.

5. Your character does not have to be perfect.  Real people make mistakes from time to time no matter how well they know a topic.  Mistakes are what makes a character interesting.  Don't fret over it.  This would be boring if we all played perfect people.

EDIT:  As a good example, look at how Caitlyn was talking about finance earlier.  She sounded pretty silly I bet, its because she has no points in finance.  I, on the otherhand, know a great deal about finance but did not use OOC knowledge to make her look good. Caitlyn did something that made her look bad because she was nervous being around Nathaniel, Carrick, Vychtorya, Sabrina, Jemal all at once and she was trying so hard to please them that she messed up.  When Caitlyn messes up, its because I intended for that to happen because she can't be perfect or she would be too boring to play.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Oh, well sorry about that Kit . I'll edit the post to extend the conversation. And thx Reaper, I did feel a bit shoved OOC, I was just trying to rp Max's current state: he's in a hurry to meet the guy in the lobby and wants to get off Cait's mind so she doesn't press him 'bout the gun. *




AH no! don't do that!

Its fine the way it is.  I was teasing you, I wasn't criticizing you =P blah

EDIT:
as I said I know OOC that Max needed to rush and he didn't want to be questioned, but there is no way Caitlyn could have known that was what he was doing so I had to react to it as if she didn't know


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy

put it back! ;p

its fine the way it was, he'd be rushing anyway and wouldn't want to be in along conversation


----------



## Festy_Dog

Well.... if you insist, but now I gotta remember all the stuff I deleted!


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Well.... if you insist, but now I gotta remember all the stuff I deleted!  *




hehe well just a close approximation of it is fine, besides, the way he acted gave Cate a reason to try and talk to him again.  She thinks its cuz Morgan doesn't want the Kindred Knights for the club and Max is afraid to give her the bad news.

So it was good what you did


----------



## Festy_Dog

Kewl, thx 

I didn't delete much this time just added a hurried departure to it, that should do the trick.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Kewl, thx
> 
> I didn't delete much this time just added a hurried departure to it, that should do the trick.  *




Hey!  You made him talk more! so now Caitlyn can't be a little annoyed at him.  ;ppppppp  damn it.  I was thinking that would have been a fun thing to have her slightly irritated.

Okay I'll soften her reponse a bit to what you wrote so its not so abrupt.

EDIT:

unless of course you'll take that out so she can be annoyed at him ;D


----------



## Festy_Dog

Done. I took out the question where he asks about her busy schedule or whatever (my memory sux, i'm forgetting what i deleted just then already ).


----------



## reapersaurus

Festy - just in case you want the original, I hadn't hit "refresh" on the IC thread, so here's your original post if you want it for any use: 







> Duh! Target practice! I should have thought of that. Heh, guess I'm lucky there.
> 
> "Yeah, just something to do. I haven't been in a while so I thought I'd better brush up on my skills. Never know when they might come in handy," he says with a little shrug, "Anyway, I haven't had much of a busy week, same old, same old. Well I'd better get going, I've booked a place at the firing range and I'm gonna be late the way I'm going."
> 
> He smiles and gives a little wave goodbye as he hops into the elevator to head to the ground floor.
> 
> Okay, nothing to worry about too much, she doesn't suspect anything I'm pretty sure... I hope...


----------



## Festy_Dog

Kewl thx, I'll use that. 

lol, just one big circle!


----------



## KitanaVorr

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *Done. I took out the question where he asks about her busy schedule or whatever (my memory sux, i'm forgetting what i deleted just then already ).  *




whoo hoo! now I can't wait for Cate and Max to have a little conversation hehe...should be pretty amusing.


----------



## Festy_Dog

Hey Catulle, I was wondering, if you could get around to it, how much experience Max has in total thus far?


----------



## Catulle

Hi folks,

Just a few quick notes, then sleep:-

1) Shalimar - The scene-setting looks good to me.

2) Max has 7xp. Want to spend some?

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Hi folks,
> 
> Just a few quick notes, then sleep:-
> 
> 1) Shalimar - The scene-setting looks good to me.
> 
> 2) Max has 7xp. Want to spend some?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Barry *





LOL welcome back!   What're you doing back so soon? Not that we didn't all just miss absolutely your beaming presence and all.  hehehe....


----------



## KitanaVorr

oh hey

just to let ya'all know.

I've been ignoring this ettiquette breach when I post because the characters should know better with their ettiquette training (its a pretty basic rule), but I figured I should mention it now to avoid any misunderstandings in the future.

One should never call someone by their first name in a formal environment without getting permission like Carrick and Vych did -- but Cate never answered either of them -- for reasons that will be revealed only in game.   

The only people Cate gave permission to call her by her first name and the nickname Cate is : Jemal, Nathan, Sabrina, and Max.

Vych, I know that you meant it to be extra friendly to Cate and if Vychtorya really did mean to call her by her first name without permission, then let me know.  But if Vychtorya would know not to say that, and would not have done that then if Vychtorya could stop calling her "cate" or "caitlyn" in future posts without securing her permission first hehe my eyebrow can stop twitching every time I see that.

I know that her reaction to Vychtorya and Carrick probably isn't what anyone expected, but there is a real reason for that in her background.  

btw in the question and answer stuff that I posted for Ash, I left out alot of secrets and twists so don't take that as being the only thing  that is Cate.



thanks!


----------



## Catulle

Yeah, I'm a little early and a lot underslept. The ferry was a lot easier coming back and the rugby kept traffic to a minimum. Yay!

I think the post before this one illustrates quite well why a degree of filtering is useful in this, and other, examples... I'll do a little quoting, more as an academic exercise in showing how the opposite viewpoint might have been picked up from the same sources (rather than in the interests of prolonging debate).


"in a formal environment"

In a formal environment, the same rules are rarely, if ever, applied to the company (guests) and the staff (people being paid to attend) equally. Most everybody would realise that, especially those with relevent etiquette skills, and the fact that that was not being observed could lead to the deduction that this was not a strict formal affair.


"but Cate never answered either of them"

Again, this presupposes formality. If the company are talking at length with the staff on non-superficial topics, that formality really goes out of the window. Likewise, if one is to assume formality, for a member of staff to ignore a polite request by a guest is quite the faux pas in and of itself.


Suede, khakis and cardigans are not formalwear...


To assume formality in an informal setting is standoffish (a la Nathaniel)


To assume informality in a formal setting is rude.


Note that Valentine called her 'Cate' as well...


The etiquette skill isn't just about formal etiquette, it's the ability to 'get by' (not necessarily excel) in just about any social situation. The emphasis of the skill represents the culture you're most familiar with (examples include Kindred Society, Formal Dinners, Business and Street Culture).


Of course, when I post, I don't have the time to quote/add each and every sentence spoken to an NPC for fear of clogging - it seems reasonable to assume that the socially-clued-in aren't ignoring anybody (unless indicated that they are), and prevents, well, this kind of circular debate. If it looks unclear, a note here should clear it up.


Now, I'd think that we'd be best off keeping it in mind that the characters' capabilities can (and will) exceed our own (particularly in my case, believe me) and I'd certainly be much more comfortable with a more forgiving environment. That said, I'll seek to clarify whenever a question is raised and try to keep the discord to a minimum.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Yep

It is a faux pas definitely for Cate to ignore it and absolutely meant when I had her do that.  And you're right that the same rules don't apply to Staff vs Guests.  Yes I know Valentine did but I assumed that he got permission to do so when they spoke before the party.

I was trying to emphasize the awkwardness of Cate's position at the party by doing all that.  And her continuing awkwardness afterwards at being called with such familiarity.  This is her first time at being 'on the other side' so to speak and she doesn't know how to react to the whole thing quite yet.

However I do realize I'm being totally nutty about this thing and I do apologize for it.  After thinking about it some, I realize that the whole formal party thing just brought back alot of not so pleasant memories for me from my past and that probably had something to do with it.

There is a dark side to a formal party and after being to endless numbers of them I will tell you that most of the time all I can think of when I'm at one is that I was going to go crazy, that I felt trapped, and I wanted to just stand in the middle of the whole thing and scream my head off.  But of course you can't, and decorum must be upheld.

EDIT:

And Vychtorya (the character) reminds me of my mother -the social goddess- and that sort of freaks me a little, but thats my own issues to deal with...hehe


----------



## KitanaVorr

oh hey!  I see Vych posted.  Welcome back!  I hope you're feeling better from the flu.


----------



## Shalimar

Umm... I don't quite know how to say this, so here goes:

I cannot really go by anything except what people post, for a few reasons.  If I have to look through the filter of someones stats, then I, and everyone else have to make assumptions based on their character's posts.  If we are all assuming, then we are all going to be left with distinctly different impressions of what going on at any given moment.  If we are all seeing each post differently then its going to cause a lot of conflicts that just don't make sense.  If you want to do something your character can, and that you can't, then you roll for it, use your stats, thats what they are there for.

Sabrina is rather bouncy and generally agreeable, so it wont be a big issue, but, I think unless a roll is involved in which case catulle says what happens, we have to go by what IS actually posted.  If we just saw things through the filter of stats, then people will always succeed without rolls, and everyone will like everyone because they see all of their actions in the best possible light, which clearly isn't the case, people can actually take things the wrong way.


----------



## reapersaurus

Catulle said:
			
		

> *The scene sees Gabriel and Nikolai waiting to meet with Qadir in a downtown diner, their usual pickup point when working with the sheriff. The place is deserted, save for the waitress, cook and a clearly homeless man taking advantage of the refill policy to stay warm for just a few hours longer. *



Nikolai pounces on the homeless man, who's obviously The Red Poet in disguise.
"Ha! Thought you could fool ME, eh, Beast?!"

j/k

BTW - I looked in the IC thread for Catulle's all important scene-setting post, and was surprised to see it in the OOC thread instead.

Should this have been put in the IC?
If so, maybe if we asked creamsteak or garyh if they could move it and insert it where you want, it might help the quite-impressive story we're creating.


----------



## Festy_Dog

> Max has 7xp. Want to spend some?




Hmm, but what to spend it on? 

Oh yeah, how would I calculate how much blood Max has currently? Or is he assumed to have not fed since the last scene (a week ago)?


----------



## KitanaVorr

Okay Barry, Cate is all set!

I'll wait until you post her arriving or something when you think it would be appropriate unless you had something else in mind.  I don't mind changing my last post.


----------



## Catulle

Ooh, yes... blood points - I'll set the state of affairs at 1d10 plus herd, less what's 'spent' in downtime - if it's low, you can choose to 'live dangerously' in the downtime period to try to get more, or hunt during the scene:-

Caitlyn - 10 blood (naturally)
Gabriel - 10 blood
Jemal - 6 blood
Max - 9 blood
Nikolai - 9 blood (less however many foci he's made)
Sabrina - 4 blood (d'oh!)
Vychtorya - 11 blood

I expect some of you will want to 'over hunt' a little, just give me the nod here if you do. It may be risk-free, it may not...

Reaper - I was kind of hoping in posting the scene setting stuff here that you'd play about with the set dressing as pleased you. The quotation works too, though. Whatever you're comfortable with.

Max - you could afford a point of either Potence or Presence _and_ a point of (sorely needed) willpower for the grand total of 7xp.

Nothing is better than dread gaze,

Barry


----------



## Shalimar

Well, Vych already fed, but Jemal and I both need to feed, BAD, there is no way in hell that Jemal would let Sabrina be that hungry when he knows Cate is coming over, it just makes no sense, and would be very very dangerous.  

I am not sure this method of determination really works.  I mean, It makes no sense for everyone to always be full whenever we get to a scene, but we all do feed regularly.  I know Sabrina would have complained and whined like there was no tomorrow if she was anywhere close to 5, thats why i put in my post that the last time that she had been fed by Jemal was the night before, so that I could be sure we wouldn't have a repeat of the banquet, with her trying to snack on Cate.

I think the best method would be to have it be within a few ( 1-3 picked randomly) of the max, no one would want to risk a frenzy, and with just a simple rolling of a d10 you could end up with someone having a 1, something there would be no possible way for them to get as they would have fed until sated when they got close to the point where they 'might' frenzy.  Since none of us wants to frenzy wouldn't we all feed before we got even close to that?

Either way, Sabrina needs more blood if all she has is 4, or she most likely will kill Cate, and I'll have to rewrite my post due to her being a slave of her hunger, and not really capable of much thought, she is a child with the 'ME NOW' mindset after all.  From an incharacter perspective, she would want to feed as often as possible if just for the pleasue, and if she were actually hungry she wouldn't put off feeding at all, and Jemal and Nathan would definitely know it, certainly if it came from a tantrum, which it would for something she sees as that serious.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Shali makes some good points.

Maybe 1d10 + Survival or Herd?

Maybe use Nathaniel's or Jamal's scores in the case of Sabrina?


----------



## KitanaVorr

I would have to agree with Shali and Ash on that one.  Though Cate isn't a vampire and it doesn't affect her yet.

Starting out a scene with a vampire in a frenzy state unless the character is being held prisoner and starved -- or the vampire hates feeding, etc sounds counterproductive esp in Sabrina's case where she is being watched over by two older vampires who should know better to not let her get in that state.  It also does force Vych and Shali to rewrite their scenes to take into account a child begging for food and throwing a tantrum.

The others would be better suited to figuring out how blood pool level rolls would work in game mechanics than I but there has to be a way where it won't get too much in the way.  How about at least for now, base it off what was written?  Then after that roll before a new scene to determine how everyone starts off and if they need to feed and all.


----------



## Shalimar

I don't think it should be random at all.  I think that perhaps it would be best just to ask us each what our habits are and then decide on the dangers based on how relatively dangerous our habits actually are with herd and what ever else you think modifying that danger of getting caught upward or downward off of that.

I think the only real feedings that should be played out, for the sake of not bogging down the game, are ones after you have used up a bit of blood for something beyond the everyday.

Here is an example of what I suggest:

Vych feeds 3 times a week taking 2 or 3 bloodpoints each time.  This isn't too dangerous for her as she has a her she can feed from, and she never takes enough to leave the vessel in need of hospitalization, or serious problems, so there aren't any reports being filed for the cops or ddoctors to notice.

Sabrina is a nibbler, she like how feeding makes her feel, so she does it as often as she can fit more, generally speaking, when Jemal and Nathan allow.  She tends to feed a little bit each night, never really taking enough for people to notice.  its a tad more dangerous for her because of the frequency of her feeding, but with her brother supervising and altering memories just a touch here and a touch there its just her being really friendly and giving out lots of hugs.

Nikolai on the other hand may feed less frequently, not wanting to devote time to it.  He may feed only once a week, but taking enough to leave the person in the hospital.  He wouldn't be hunting very often, so less danger there, but because he takes soo much from the victim they end up on reports much more often raising the danger immensely.

Once you know their pattern, and you know how much they start with, all you need to know is how many days pass between the scenes.  This makes feeding more about personality then utterly random.  It gives pc's control of their habits, a good thing as habits are what make us individuals.  I mean, we are all trying to avoid a frenzy, doing it with random rolls could have us start with 1s, something no vamp would ever ever have without having some major goings on and expenditures like spending 6 blood in 1 scene.


----------



## Catulle

The general idea is that, as raw neonates and in some cases recent arrivals to the city, the characters aren't in the best of situations vis a vis feeding at present. The 'random mechanic' is a way of getting you to think more about how regularly your characters go about assaulting people to suck out their vital fluids...

Since that has an effect on Humanity as well as Blood Pool (I think Vychtorya beat me to the punch on this one, actually).

Starting a scene 'low' *is* unlikelyto happen, hence the 'window of opportunity' approach I suggested above, rather than strictly by the numbers. 6 blood is hardly needing to feed badly, either. It's a non-risk in frenzy terms, in fact.

In any case, as the characters develop into their state, claim rich hunting grounds, etc. feeding will become less risky and more 'generous' all in all.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Jemal

Sorry I haven't posted IC in a while, but I'm not online a lot at one time recently, so don't have time to write a good post.

In regards to the recent debate, I agree with Shal.

Personally speaking, Jemal with his herd of 6 ladies could drink from a different one each night to keep his apetite in check, and he/nathan would not let Sabrina get thirsty again now that she's fed once.  If neccesary, Jemal would get Sabrina to feed from his herd, and go hunting for himself, so she doesn't have to worry about it.

If you feel the need to make it random, though, then hows this for an idea: 

Most people spend 1/night, right?  Well how about setting blood pool to: 
2d4+2(Base) + Survival or Herd - # of nights since last feeding.


----------



## Shalimar

Well, don't take me anywhere anyone, Nathan is providing me my meal, so just tell him Sabrina is hungry.  Sigh.


----------



## Jemal

> Well, don't take me anywhere anyone, Nathan is providing me my meal, so just tell him Sabrina is hungry. Sigh.




U 'sound' angry, what's wrong?


----------



## Shalimar

Its nothing, really.


----------



## Jemal

OK, well I'm an insensitive, typically thick-headed male, so I'll assume that actually means it's nothing.


----------



## Vychtorya

*



			OOC: What can I say, he's got a weakness for beautiful young women, which seem to be all-too-abundant right about now.  that could make things.. Interesting.
		
Click to expand...


*Jemal and Vych should get along pretty well then...she has a weakness for beautiful humans, male and female and anything else she might find beauty in no matter how macabre. LOL hee hee


----------



## Vychtorya

> Welcome back! I hope you're feeling better from the flu.



Thanks Kit.  Not sure I'm 100% yet, but definitely a lot better.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Jemal and Vych should get along pretty well then...she has a weakness for beautiful humans, male and female and anything else she might find beauty in no matter how macabre. LOL hee hee  *



*

LOL I was just thinking that myself   They're both social butterflies.

Fortunately Caitlyn doesn't share that 'beautiful people' weakness or this would be getting an extra interesting to the point of meow meow scratch scratch.  If it wasn't obvious already when her obsession was enhanced by Sabrina's awe hehe, her weakness is beautiful and unusual sounds plus rich emotional expressions -- things that drive her songwriting.*


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Thanks Kit.  Not sure I'm 100% yet, but definitely a lot better. *




Glad to hear that.  The flu can be such a pain.  Lingers forEVER and of course the cough is always the last to go 

I don't know if you have relatives in the medical profession or if you're in it yourself (in which case you know this already), but this really really works.  When I had a major exam on a Saturday (MCAT) I got the flu a few days before that -- it was an 8 week flu that was going around too -- very bad.  

My dad took me to his office and hooked me up to an IV filled with fluids, vitamins and who knows what else for one whole day.  I thought he was crazy, and it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences.  But by Saturday (he had done this on thursday) the flu was gone...not even a COUGH remained to bother me.  Pretty amazing I thought.  Now I'm an advocate for that hehe of course doesn't work if someone doesn't like needles.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Jemal said:
			
		

> *OK, well I'm an insensitive, typically thick-headed male, so I'll assume that actually means it's nothing.  *




*gasps*

You!?  an insensitive typically thick-headed male?  You?...naw...surely you must jest 

Why...your comments in ICCG surely suggest such a high-level of feminine acuity at least to the bugbear....


----------



## KitanaVorr

Jemal said:
			
		

> *
> OOC: UM, I happen to have 2 younger sisters, and if THEY've understood me since they were 2, then to a child as smart as Sabrina, who's been around this kind of speaking patern in her brother, uncle, and parents, her whole life, it should be easy to comprehend.  I fail to see the problem.  Maybe she's just dizzy from hunger.. *




Well she is a spoiled rich kid who's hungry enough right now to only be thinking ME NOW ME  ME NOW NOW!  She probably wouldn't have left so abruptly if she wasn't so hungry, but I can see that reaction for Sabrina if she is really that ravenous.

On a related note: 

How low does the blood level have to be to be actually be at frenzy exactly?  Is it only when it goes down to 1?  Because if you don't have an established herd like Sabrina or Gabriel (actually I don't know if he has a herd, but since he hunts outside, so probably not?)  etc...don't you get a chance to roll a 1 to start a scene off in frenzy?


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Gabriel has a few allies he could feed from, and a stock of blood he can access when he needs it. However, he preffers fresh blood and he actually enjoys the hunt to some extent.

He feeds as needed, and usually from the "scum of society".


----------



## Jemal

Shal - Well true, I only know a few rich kids, and I don't spend a lot of time with them, so I guess they might be like that, I don't know.. wtvr, it's an rp opportunity.

About the blood.. That's the reason i suggested setting blood pool to: 2d4+2(Base) + Survival or Herd 
That way you'ld have min 4, max 10 (Before survival/herd)


----------



## KitanaVorr

Jemal said:
			
		

> *Shal - Well true, I only know a few rich kids, and I don't spend a lot of time with them, so I guess they might be like that, I don't know.. wtvr, it's an rp opportunity.
> *




ROFL...Jemal, did you just call me Shal when responding to my comment or was that just to skip over me straight to Shali?

Cuz if its the first I'm LMAO!


----------



## Shalimar

Well, the low on blood through me for a loop, so I was trying to think of what a child would do that was starving.  Yes, I know she probably could normally understad what you were saying, but she really wasn't paying attention to your words.  She could tell it might take him awhile to get around to having blood ready for her, so being an impatient child she just went to see uncle Nathan, because he can do anything. Or so she thinks.


----------



## reapersaurus

I haven't gotten a chance to post, but let me ask about Nikolai's blood situation:
You say 9 - (the number of blood points he created.)
I had been planning from the beginning to have him get the Ritual which lets him create 1 point blood tokens. 5 sounded like a nice round number.
I know that Gabriel took the ritual from the beginning, and crafted 5.
I originally posted that Nik made 5 during this down time, but if that's the case, than he's at 4 now, and needs to roleplay a Hunt.

I've been wondering how that would work from the outset - I have no idea how much this kind of scene is ever roleplayed...

I'll think about what kind of approach Nikolai might take to this situation and post back when i have an idea and when i get the chance.


----------



## Festy_Dog

Catulle, I'll take you up on the offer of another point of Presence and a point of Willpower.


----------



## reapersaurus

Ash, I'm not happy with Nik's last post - let me know if you want me to change it.
Basically, it's hard to roleplay with Gabe when only one thing is known of him.


----------



## Catulle

Duly noted, Mr. _Dog. Do you want the lowdown on Dread Gaze, or do you have an idea of how it works yourself?

Reaper; pretty much figure out how your character would get somebody into a position where he could bite them (during the feeding takes care of itself) and get away without them realising exactly what happened. Attempt this in-game. Vychtorya's example was a good one of a herd-based feeding and Sabrina's developed a mastery of the 'can't somebody else do it?' school of the hunt. Certainly, feeding will be quite possible in the current situation, where the only real problem is witnesses (there aren't many out tonight...)

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

hope you don't mind

I took some liberties with the scene...didnt' really want to go through the whole ->ask to come up, go up, tell the servants, yadda yadda

LOL I figured I'd give Barry a bit of a break.

But if you want me to change it to do all that routine stuff, just ask me and I'll rewrite my post!


----------



## Vychtorya

I liked the operatic music Kit!!! Very cool!


----------



## Festy_Dog

I believe I'd need an explanation of Dread Gaze, don't know much about the fancy vampire abilities other than the names (Potence, Auspex, etc) and the general idea of what they do. I'd really appreciate it if you could.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *I liked the operatic music Kit!!! Very cool!  *




Thanks I like it, too!

And the irony of the music + words  was just too good to pass up!  It was perfect for the moment!  For those of you don't recognize it..._Un bel di_ is from Madam Butterfly by Puccini.

I think I got the right phrases I was looking for, if not LOL er the translation will definitely be funny.  My apologies to anyone who speaks Italian.  My Italian isn't so hot and the English translation of the opera that I've seen is awful at best.  I couldn't find one I even remotely approved of to use.

P.S.

Barry?  Did you want me to change the ending and have her just er...call up instead of waiting for the servant to announce her?  I was soooo tempted to send Cate to the diner where Gabe + Nik are, let me tell you, but I couldn't think of a good rp reason that she would when it makes her late for her appointment.


----------



## Catulle

Madame Butterfly, isn't it? 

[edit: well, don't I look like a muppet? I swear I was just typing the same time as Kit... honest!!!]

Festy:-

Fortunately, Max's got some pretty simple powers to explain. Not to mention that they're set often referred to as the 'first-contact disciplines'...

Celerity:-
Spend a blood point on your turn (at worse than ninth generation, this will be the only blood you can spend that turn), then _the round following_ you gain additional (physical only) actions equal to your Celerity rating. These additional actions can't be split further into multiple actions, but do use the full dice pool for each. They occur at the end of the turn, after everybody else has had an action (everyone with multiple actions take these in turn, as per their initiative, until everybody's out).

Potence:-
Gain an extra success on any roll involving strength (including damage in close combat) for each point of potence you have.
Note that this makes it impossible for anybody with potence to botch strength-based rolls...

Presence:-
Awe - has been described on p.16 of this thread, about 2/3 of the way down.
Dread Gaze - "While all Kindred can frighten others by physically revealing their true vampiric natures - baring claws and fangs, glaring with malevolence, hissing loudly with malice - this power focuses these elements to insanely terrifying levels. Dread Gaze engenders unbelievable terror in its victims, stupefying them into madness, immobility or reckless flight. Even the most stalwart individual will fall back from the vampire's horrific visage."

What all that translates to is rolling Cha/intimidation against a difficulty of the victim's Wit/courage. Three successes sends them running (or clawing at the walls if there's nowhere to run), additionally each success subtracts one from all of the victim's dice pools for the next turn. It can only be attempted once per round, but can be used in an extended action (akin to a staredown) to totally subjugate a target (if they run out of dice in all their pools, they curl up and cry...) by accumulating successes over a number of turns, with any failure breaking the effect. Botching Dread Gaze renders your would-be victim immune to your presence for the remainder of the story.


----------



## Festy_Dog

> Dread Gaze - "While all Kindred can frighten others by physically revealing their true vampiric natures - baring claws and fangs, glaring with malevolence, hissing loudly with malice - this power focuses these elements to insanely terrifying levels. Dread Gaze engenders unbelievable terror in its victims, stupefying them into madness, immobility or reckless flight. Even the most stalwart individual will fall back from the vampire's horrific visage."




*Awed silence*

KEWL!! 

Next time I'm goin Potence! (and maybe a little Will Power )


----------



## Catulle

Might I recommend some intimidation to go with that? While on the subject (almost) there's a theory kicking about our group that the 'good (insert clan x)' has 3 in each of the in-clan disciplines, thus covering what the clan is 'intended to do' and with some flexibility.

Kitana - The end's just fine. Certainly saves me some 'linking' prose.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Madame Butterfly, isn't it?
> 
> [edit: well, don't I look like a muppet? I swear I was just typing the same time as Kit... honest!!!]
> *




LOL!

And yes you were right 

and is that a disparging remark about muppets?!

And the way the Opera Babes performed it, didn't that make you think of the daughters of cacophony?  It certainly came to mind for me immediately.

EDIT:  err that isn't why I thought it was ironic...lol that had more to do with the particular scene that the song is sung in


----------



## Shalimar

So how much vitae have I consumed?

7 plus however much I just had put in my glass.  So another 4.  Just wondering so I know whether to have Sabrina be satisfied.


----------



## Catulle

I figure a total of 9 blood points; 4 plus about 5 from the decanter. Surprisingly potent for the volume, mind.

Barry


----------



## reapersaurus

accidental post.
(what're the daughters of cacophony?)


----------



## KitanaVorr

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *accidental post.
> (what're the daughters of cacophony?) *




Here's the link.

LOL I like what is says about 7+ success


> You gave the greatest performance most of your audience have ever heard. The Toreador were entranced (without Melpominee) and everyone is in awe of you (indeed, almost in Awe of you).




lol and Cate had a 7 success I believe at the party.


----------



## Catulle

Well, the 'online clanbook' certainly has an interesting take on the bloodline (it does diverge from canon, but that's not necessarily A Bad Thing (tm)). It's not necessarily identical to my own take, though. Not by a long shot...

Regards,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Well, the 'online clanbook' certainly has an interesting take on the bloodline (it does diverge from canon, but that's not necessarily A Bad Thing (tm)). It's not necessarily identical to my own take, though. Not by a long shot...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Barry *




ut oh...he has a _take_ on it...that means we might be seeing one of those songtresses soon...


----------



## Catulle

Maybe even postoperative... 

Barry


----------



## Shalimar

I just changed the picture I am using of Sabrina if anyone wants to see the new one, here it is:







it was alot easier to find this one than the last, as there are apparently sites with hundreds of child actor pictures posted just trying to get work.  Ick.


----------



## reapersaurus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I just changed the picture I am using of Sabrina if anyone wants to see the new one, here it is:
> 
> Ick. *



*shudder*


----------



## reapersaurus

(It's Vych - I did it again.....oh well)
She's adorable Shali! My little boy's hair was that color when he was born. It's gotten more golden over the last 2 years, though he's still definitely a toe-head.


----------



## Catulle

I can only say, as I sit in my room surrounded by Dali prints and with the strains of Lakme reverberating about me, that the last link Kitana provided really hit a nerve with me over on this side of the pond. Thanks. Given the circumstances, Puccini's work has never felt more malevolent, yet so beautiful, than it did in that short space of time.

Bravo,

Barry


----------



## KitanaVorr

Thank you, Barry.  I'm glad it provided you with the right stimulus to really get into the moment.

Lakme...now _there's_ a possibly ironic opera with some arias I could use for a couple scenes as well.

One of these days I need to actually make non-tragic characters...


----------



## reapersaurus

Finally got to this.

Catulle - now that Qadir's at the diner, Nikolai's really pressed for opportunities to feed (and he's at 4 blood pool!  ).
The bum seems the most likely target, unless I go outside for some random victim.

However, how would a feeding off the bum work?
Bum visibly goes in bathroom, Nikolia follows, feeds.
a) bum is rendered unconscious by the attack. Nikolai leaves.  Bum is found, and reports attack, including description of Nikolai from others in diner.
b) bum is only snacked on. (Only 3 blood points, right?) This leaves Nik with only 7 blood pool, and still has the problem of how to explain away bum's memory (well, I guess he's drunk, so no problems there - wee! Nik'll have a good night) 
c) bum is killed by Nik, taking ~10 blood. Nik's humanity is low enough to do it, but I'd prefer that he reserve murder for the active pursuit of power, not the day-to-day drive of blood consumption.
Plus, what the hell to do with the body, and how to get out of the diner unseen, etc.

Pardon my ignorance and blatant discussion oabout something I'd rather be roleplaying out, but I'm kind of at a temporary quandry.
Help, anyone?

P.S. What is happening to the stats in the Rogue's Gallery?
Is someone using Dominate 3: The Forgetful Mind here?


----------



## Shalimar

Use one of your blood pebbles or whatever they are.  I doubt Qadir really wants to wait around, he was probably just trying to be polite, which is probably hard for the man, so don't abuse it  

Well thats my thoughts on the subject.


----------



## Catulle

*Re: Feeding (the 'cottaging' method)*

Mechanically, if Nik can get up to his victim from behind and get those teeth in, he's set. If he takes enough blood to stun the guy (his stamina rating in blood in a single turn), he'll remain dazed for a turn (3 seconds to 2 minutes) after; ample time to make a getaway... if not, taking enough to render him woozy (about 5) and leaving by shoving him into a cubicle could be the best bet.

It's worth noting that the ecstasy of the Kiss is all that most mortals will recall of the experience itself, which creates trouble for reporting Kindred to the police (and how many street people would go to the police under these circumstances, anyway?).

Of course, for extra certainty Gabriel's Mesmerize power could prove useful ("Tell nobody of this incident.")

Oh, vampires can take up to 3 blood per turn while feeding (I wasn't sure if I'd mentioned that yet)

Regards,

Barry

PS - I think everybody deserves another XP point by this stage...


----------



## reapersaurus

thanks for the mechanics of feeding there, Barry.
It helped me to get some posts up.

Ash - sorry I hadn't posted up till now after having Gabe spill his guts there.  LOL

Question : what are the mechanics of feeding from blood that is not from a person?
(i.e. the blood in the decanter the Montagues have)
I seem to remember something about stored blood being less potent (less blood points per unit than fresh blood)...?


----------



## Shalimar

> Question : what are the mechanics of feeding from blood that is not from a person?(i.e. the blood in the decanter the Montagues have)
> I seem to remember something about stored blood being less potent (less blood points per unit than fresh blood)...?




Don't worry about it, _this_ blood doesn't lose potency.  As a matter of fact, this blood was surprisingly potent.  There are no game effects to drinking old blood, just that its less tasty (according to page 140 of the rule book)  this blood by the book would actually provide 2 points for everyone drunk.  I am sure you can geuss what I mean.


----------



## Shalimar

Jemal, and everyone really, can we not post Out of Character in the In Character forum, it is very distracting and takes away from the feel of it.  Thats why we have this forum, to post ooc stuff in.

I would also like to ask if you could leave your signature out jemal, it is rather large, and it has the same effect as the OOC portions of posts.


----------



## KitanaVorr

well if we're posting requests now - lol - can everyone not use color in their post? Its actually rather difficult to read at times and is pretty distracting.

thanks!


----------



## KitanaVorr

ok

I took liberties again in the end there mostly because I wanted to expedite to the lesson scene instead of being stuck in ettiquette limbo of trying to take leave for the next three days.

However, if you want to play out the exit from the music room some more, I'm okay with that.  Just ignore the last sentance I posted and write your post and I'll take it out.


----------



## Vychtorya

Hi all. I'm passing on a message from Catulle.

He is having difficulty connecting to the boards from home. He wanted to let everyone know.

Thanks


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Hi all. I'm passing on a message from Catulle.
> 
> He is having difficulty connecting to the boards from home. He wanted to let everyone know.
> 
> Thanks  *




aww


----------



## Festy_Dog

I hope he's able to solve his computer troubles


----------



## Krizzel

The boards have been finicky for me all afternoon, so it might not be *his* computer...


----------



## reapersaurus

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *well if we're posting requests now - lol - can everyone not use color in their post? Its actually rather difficult to read at times and is pretty distracting. *



Well, honestly, that's the point of doing an alternate color for dialogue.
Having it stand out.

It's actually a staple in the In-Character Forum.

But if the majority of players don't want Nik's speech in an alternate color, I'm taking a survey...vote your preferance, or specify if a different color would be better for you, and I'll see...


----------



## Shalimar

Its rather hard for me to read as well reap,  no offense.


----------



## Festy_Dog

I'm neutral really, doesn't worry me at all.


----------



## Catulle

Cheers for passing on the message, Vychtorya.

Well, thank heaven for quiet days at work. I've updated on the IC thread... I wasn't sure about the tone for you, Krizzel, so I kept it pretty neutral for you to build on. If you want it edited in any way, just let me know.

The colour thing doesn't bother me in the slightest (note that I do it too, to differentiate description and mechanics) but I'd be willing to swing with the majority as reaper indicates.

Whew, here's hoping I can get my home set-up sorted out tonight (are you in the UK too, Krizzel?).

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Vychtorya

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *ok
> 
> I took liberties again in the end there mostly because I wanted to expedite to the lesson scene instead of being stuck in ettiquette limbo of trying to take leave for the next three days.
> 
> However, if you want to play out the exit from the music room some more, I'm okay with that.  Just ignore the last sentance I posted and write your post and I'll take it out. *



That's okay Kit, you helped me get an opportunity to play and try out some of Vych's vampiric powers. I thought I'd play a little too. 

I felt that by your previous posts, you were okay with some confict to start to flare up between Vych and Cait. It will definitely make for some good stories I think.


----------



## Vychtorya

Hey Reap - as far as the vote on the color thing goes...I kinda like it. It adds personal flare to your posts and emphasis to Nik's actual words, but whatever you decide at the end of your voter tally, majority vote or no, it's cool with me.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

I don't mind it being in color, but I would prefer a different color. That red is hard on the eyes with this background.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *That's okay Kit, you helped me get an opportunity to play and try out some of Vych's vampiric powers. I thought I'd play a little too.
> 
> I felt that by your previous posts, you were okay with some confict to start to flare up between Vych and Cait. It will definitely make for some good stories I think.  *




Yes!  I do want some conflict with them -- honestly I want conflict with everyone -- meaning being on edge.  I mean Cate has some serious issues.

err though now I have to completely rewrite all my previous posts and so will Shalimar - so you'll have give us a couple of days to fix all that


----------



## Catulle

Hey guys,

I think it's pretty internally consistent if we go with the spin that the Dread Gaze pretty much came as a shock to everybody's system enough that there was time for the door to get closed and things to move ahead before the characters came fully to their senses. At least, it'll minimize the impact on the (very good) tuition scene you folks have been working up, to the degree that you'd only need minor edits for ease of reading. The conflict, such as it is, could be picked up in the next 'scenelet', for example.

Now see me go home and try to fix my LAN (again) 

So I'll probably post tomorrow...

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Shalimar

It doesn't make too much sense as is, but I think everyone has the idea.  I think all that really needs to be done to make it flow is stop your first post after she puts the cd in, but before she hits play(this is if you feel we have to change anything only).

Then Vych says her piece, scares the bejesus out of us, I change my first post to telling her not to be so mean, and once we are alone, we repost our original posts.  It keeps the feel of what everyone was trying to get across?

So how does that sound?

EDIT: that or go with barry's thoughts, which I thinka re pretty much right on track


----------



## KitanaVorr

Catulle said:
			
		

> *I think it's pretty internally consistent if we go with the spin that the Dread Gaze pretty much came as a shock to everybody's system enough that there was time for the door to get closed and things to move ahead before the characters came fully to their senses. At least, it'll minimize the impact on the (very good) tuition scene you folks have been working up, to the degree that you'd only need minor edits for ease of reading. The conflict, such as it is, could be picked up in the next 'scenelet', for example.
> *




Barry

I would if it were someone else, but remember what I told you (in the email waaaaay back) about why Caitlyn is uncomfortable and distant around Vychtorya + Carrick?  This would definitely bring some stuff exploding to forefront because of that and Cate's er..."ability".  The impact is going to be actually twice - first the dread gaze (as per normal) - then the visual effect of it + pyschological (as per Cate's personal issues).

It'll all be explained when I get home and make my first revised post why that is so.  I just didn't want to spill the beans all at once in OOC.


----------



## Krizzel

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I don't mind it being in color, but I would prefer a different color. That red is hard on the eyes with this background. *



Definitely.  I prefer no colors, just plain old quotes " ".  If there have to be colors though, light colors are best (but not _bright_ - hopefully that makes sense).


----------



## Krizzel

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Well, thank heaven for quiet days at work. I've updated on the IC thread... I wasn't sure about the tone for you, Krizzel, so I kept it pretty neutral for you to build on. If you want it edited in any way, just let me know.*



Looks fine to me   It's going to take me a few posts to work into it too.  Now to find some suitable soundtrack choices...I warn you, my sense of humor is sometimes odd.



> *Whew, here's hoping I can get my home set-up sorted out tonight (are you in the UK too, Krizzel?).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Barry *



Nope I'm in NY.  What made you think that (just curious )?


----------



## KitanaVorr

ooo

he looks very kewl, Krizzel, chalk that up to someone else I'd like to run into for a scene (lol well - not as a snack but you know what I mean)


----------



## Krizzel

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *ooo
> 
> he looks very kewl, Krizzel, chalk that up to someone else I'd like to run into for a scene (lol well - not as a snack but you know what I mean) *




Aww, I can put some points in Herd and Caitlyn could be it 

IC post up too but my music link isn't working, I'll need your help later to figure out what's wrong.


----------



## KitanaVorr

Krizzel said:
			
		

> *
> Aww, I can put some points in Herd and Caitlyn could be it
> *








			
				Krizzel said:
			
		

> *
> IC post up too but my music link isn't working, I'll need your help later to figure out what's wrong. *




ok will do


----------



## Vychtorya

Hey there! Welcome to the story Krizzel.  

Was the link supposed to be for a song by Cake? Gotta love that band! Not to mention they are from my home town!


----------



## Catulle

Woo hoo!

Well, I chatted with a friend who sorted out my DNS issues by tracing the IP adress through the DOS box (now does anybody know whet that means?). All praise to Dan, though!

I'll keep this brief since I'm exhausted and catch up tomorrow from work if I get an spare hour;

I think Shalimar's notion is probably the most practical option. I don't think we'll lose out on any of the fireworks later, but by explaining the loss of initiative with the sheer surprise of the moment we'll retain legibility, if not elegance, and maintain the flow. As ever, though, it's _your_ game, and I'm simply laying out my preferred course.

Krizzel - I figured you might be over here as you seemed to be online at about the same times as me, and had similar access issues (possibly, probably not with hindsight).

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Jemal

As to the colours debate, I personally hate coloured text (Other than classic RED) As in most cases it's impossible for me to read unless I copy+Paste it into a word file, and then alter the color.  Red, orange, and some blues are readable, but the ones that I've seen that are used most commonly are not for me, so I'll have to vote against colours.

I'ld also like to say that Vychs... exit... has indeed had a few side effects.  I'm going to assume, for now, that the Shock of the moment prevented anyone from responding, meaning that unless someone tells me otherwise, I'll be ignoring Shal's "YOU can't be mean to her" speech, and assuming she started yelling at Vychs back as she left or some such thing, or perhaps was just thinking that (Sorry Shal, I'm just really confused at how it's all working out).

Also Barry (Or anyone else who knows) could you post how much XP everyone has gained in total?  I've counted up all the "XP point for people" I've seen, but I don't think My total's right.


----------



## Shalimar

Ok, this is going to sound very confused, and slightly upset, but anyway, here goes.

Vych I love that you are being assertive, I really truly do, and I am fine with the fact that you posted that Vych was upset and angry.  Loved it, very good writing my compliments.  I'm not upset with you Vych, not at all.  It just seems Sabrina and Cate are being jerked around and ignored, and denied their fair chance to respond.

The only thing I ask, is that since you went back a bit to reply, that we also be given that same chance.  We are not just gonna be able to go on as we did before, because what vych did evoked a response, I know you wanted some conflict in there, so when we answer back, we need to have that chance.  Kit and I both posted our responses that would take place before she left.

Its only fair that if we both react to what you did, that everyone respect that and reacts to our response, only fair.  So what I would really like, is that our responses be reacted to.  I am not editing my response again.  I will say out of character that if she is ignored she will have a tantrum at the very least.  Ignoring her is the worst thing you could do to Sabrina, ever.

I would say that by the way it was posted, there was ample time for Kit and Sabrina to respond IC as Vych spoke, turned, spoke to jemal, then walked across the room, then the doors closed.  It wasn't all instantaneous.  But not time enough for us to post.

I would ask that until Barry sorts this out, that Vych, Jemal, Kit and myself not post IC as it will only lead to more of a mess to sort out.


----------



## Shalimar

Here is another thing that I think we all need to discuss out of character.  Pacing of the game.  For the most part the pacing of the game is great.

But I think some of the problems that have arisen recently are due to the varying speed of posting.

We all need to allow enough time between posts to let the other people affected by our posts time to respond, we are all guilty of this to some degree, all of us, and I admit it myself.  But we all need to leave a reasonable amount of time for the reactions of the others in the scene, or we run into problems.

So the question is how long is a reasonable time to wait between posts to allow the other players to react.  Personally I feel that 24 hours is a fine length of time to wait.  We all seem to post once a day with the exclusion of one or 2 people, so thats fine.  What does everyone else think is a reasonable amount of time?

For somethings though, like when it was just Saby and Cate, we were posting quite often back and forth, but that was ok for a few reasons.  As far as we knew, we were the only two in the room, hence the only ones affected by our posts.  The other reason it was ok, was because we were on IM discussing the scene, so we were going at a speed we were both comfortable with.

I really just want to avoid future issues, so maybe we could all vote and discuss this?  What do you think is reasonable?

24 hours
36 hours
48 hours( this is the highest I am personally willing to go, and I would be hesitant on 36 as well, because the game WILL bog down as so many games seem to.)


----------



## KitanaVorr

ok I will refrain from IC posting until Barry chimes in.

as for the pacing

I prefer once per day on the weekdays - and posting on weekends is at your discretion as many people have commitments then.  The only reason I want a 1/post per day is because this is primarily a conversational medium.

48 hours is the max for me as any more than that, the game will bog down - conversations will lag - and players will get bored.

But I know that people can get busy, but I think that's fine as long as we let each other know when we'll be unavailable, that would work out great.


----------



## KitanaVorr

ignore this I'm testing something

cars

EDIT:
Well the best way to hear it is to just copy the link into IE and play it.  Netscape certainly doesn't like it and linking to it sends to their download website.  I can't find a better copy, oh well.

Good song though


----------



## Krizzel

Thanks 

I took the link out of my post because it crashed netscape a couple times when I tried to use it.  The song by the way _is_ by Cake - Long Line of Cars.  I can't remember the album name but it's a more recent one (their last one I know of).  It's not the most perfect song for the scene, but it hit a couple of nice points for me, at least.


----------



## Krizzel

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Hey there! Welcome to the story Krizzel.
> 
> Was the link supposed to be for a song by Cake? Gotta love that band! Not to mention they are from my home town!   *




Thanks, and yep!  And very cool about your home town - ever get to see them play?


----------



## Krizzel

Catulle said:
			
		

> *Krizzel - I figured you might be over here as you seemed to be online at about the same times as me, and had similar access issues (possibly, probably not with hindsight).*




I usually end up posting either late night or sometimes around midday, which would correspond to UK early moring and evening, so that probably explains that   For access, I've no idea where ENWorld's server is, but I'd imagine it's possible that we share a common route to it.  Connection for me has been slow over the past couple of days (though it seems pretty good at the moment).  Sounds like you have more computer issues there than just that though (thankfully I've got a 6-month old computer and a cable modem).


----------



## Vychtorya

Krizzel said:
			
		

> *And very cool about your home town - ever get to see them play? *



Yep - saw them with No Doubt a long time ago...Cake opened for No Doubt back when they had their horn section, dancing all over the place... great show.


----------



## Catulle

Well, there's a whole lot going on isn't there?

I'm about to bombard the thread with a point-to-point response to the enquiries I've had, which I estimate will take more than a few posts to resolve as I want to cover all of the concerns and questions you bring up. That done, I'll try to neaten up the IC thread to minimise future 'signal distortion'. Given the tendency of things to snowball, and I realise things may get heated, I'd appreciate if the more vehement responses were brought up with me in e-mail before public airing.

My work address (from about an hour ago to about seven hours from now, rinse and repeat daily) is barry.mcivor@nch.org.uk, please use it responsibly.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## Catulle

Jemal said:
			
		

> *I'ld also like to say that Vychs... exit... has indeed had a few side effects.  I'm going to assume, for now, that the Shock of the moment prevented anyone from responding, meaning that unless someone tells me otherwise, I'll be ignoring Shal's "YOU can't be mean to her" speech, and assuming she started yelling at Vychs back as she left or some such thing, or perhaps was just thinking that (Sorry Shal, I'm just really confused at how it's all working out).*




I think that's a pretty sensible assessment; if it's okay with you, I'll do a final Jemal post that's reactive to the music room situation and that can loop back in to the narrative as stands and avoid bogging this down in ever-decreasing circles. As it stands, I'm finding that things have gotten rather labour-intensive of late...



> *Also Barry (Or anyone else who knows) could you post how much XP everyone has gained in total?  I've counted up all the "XP point for people" I've seen, but I don't think My total's right. *




Total XP earned to date stands at (I think, my game spreadsheet's on my home PC) 8 xp each, 9 for Sabrina, 0 (yet) for Kriang. As per usual, expenditure on the back of an e-mail to me.

Regards,

Barry


----------



## reapersaurus

Barry, I just saw you posted, with a request to not talk about it.
But I don't think that I should be gagged. I want to get across my impressions, and people can take them as they will...







			
				Shalimar said:
			
		

> *For somethings though, like when it was just Saby and Cate, we were posting quite often back and forth, but that was ok for a few reasons.  As far as we knew, we were the only two in the room, hence the only ones affected by our posts.  The other reason it was ok, was because we were on IM discussing the scene, so we were going at a speed we were both comfortable with.
> 
> I really just want to avoid future issues, so maybe we could all vote and discuss this?*



Well... since you asked...   

I think it's ironic, and very instructive, that you think it was "OK" for Kitana to do (basically) EXACTLY what Vych did.

VERY instructive...

I'm not one to beat around the bush, as you can guess.
I believe that OOC play should stay in the OOC thread, unlike ya'll dragging things into the IC as has been done.

The "IC-scene dominatrixes" have a problem when someone dictates the outcome of a scene?
How ironic.
You guys do realize how dominating you've been in-character, right?
How difficult it looks to write in any scene where Sabrina and Caitlyn happen to be in the same room?
It reads silly, the obsession they have recently had with each other, and the way you guys jumped the gun and posted so many things, moving the action along while not waiting for anyone's input shows that you are both missing how your intense interplay is hedging out other players.

As I read it, Vych either had to accept her subservient, miniscule role you'd left for her in the scene, and be ultimately dismissed by *Kitana*, or she could post, and try to create some room for her character to play in.
She had already done the former, and it hadn't gone away, so she decided to try the latter approach.
________________________________
*Personally*, I think that most posting issues that boil down to "timing" can just be read thru, if you read between the lines, seeing the whole scene, and working the posts together.

It's inevitable that in this PbP medium that sometimes people's posts go "out of order" *gasp!*
Especially when 2 characters in the game get a tight relationship and advance their storyline faster than the pace of the Chronicle.

What would you have us all do?
Just sit back and continue to watch your interplay?
Why don't I pop some popcorn, while I'm at it?
_"Welcome to yet ANOTHER installment of the Cait-n-Saby show!
When last we left our obsessive pair, they were doing the same thing they're doing now!
Tune in next week, when they dominate yet another scene!"_

There's really no way that some "universal time limit for posting" is going to be able to dodge what happened:
You two in your own world.
And other people (at least Vych) on the outside, scrambling to stay up with your scene-setting actions.

But then again, what do I know - I just read when I can (I don't have time for 24 posts a day), and try to keep up after I come back from work and see yet MORE posts, stretching endlessly like a melodramatic director forcing me to read scripts.

So do yourself a favor, and ignore what I've written, and don't care about what I think.
Because it's obvious at this point that we are different people, and we like different things in a game, and I think that Catulle is damn good enough to wrangle our different styles together, and let us all get what we want out of the game.

So Happy Gaming, all, and continue doing Your Thang, if that floats your boat, and I hope Vych continues doing Her Thang.


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## Catulle

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Ok, this is going to sound very confused, and slightly upset, but anyway, here goes.*




That said, I'm probably going to be a little more blunt than I mean to be, simply because I don't want to risk misinterpretation. Please feel free, as ever, to air the gaffes with me over e-mail.



> *Vych I love that you are being assertive, I really truly do, and I am fine with the fact that you posted that Vych was upset and angry.  Loved it, very good writing my compliments.  I'm not upset with you Vych, not at all.  It just seems Sabrina and Cate are being jerked around and ignored, and denied their fair chance to respond.*




I suspect that much of this issue comes down to the timing issue that you identify in your second post, as well as other contributing factors I'll identify shortly.



> *The only thing I ask, is that since you went back a bit to reply, that we also be given that same chance.  We are not just gonna be able to go on as we did before, because what vych did evoked a response, I know you wanted some conflict in there, so when we answer back, we need to have that chance.  Kit and I both posted our responses that would take place before she left.
> 
> Its only fair that if we both react to what you did, that everyone respect that and reacts to our response, only fair.  So what I would really like, is that our responses be reacted to.  I am not editing my response again.  I will say out of character that if she is ignored she will have a tantrum at the very least.  Ignoring her is the worst thing you could do to Sabrina, ever.*




When I indicate that I want to tidy up the IC thread and keep things moving, I'm talking about providing a reaction that won't cause the scene to continue to tailspin.

I can identify the source of the problem really pretty easily, and it's almost precisely what you indicate in that second post. Why it arose, I couldn't say, but the fact that this issue has come up (twice, as I recall) previously hints to me that we should know better than to fall into that trap by now.

A post which delineated other characters' actions and the continuation of posts in the assumption that no response by other characters in the scene would affect the outcome is basically where the mess started. We've seen it before with Vychtorya writing Carrick, and it was commented on then at length. We saw it more recently with Festy's effectively ending a minor scene and it was commented on again.

Essentially, by taking that course of action, I think that precisely the same things which you complain about were precipitated for other characters by the series of posts starting with Kit's stamped  03-18-2003 05:55 PM by my clock.

I tried to roll with that, letting some response go which I'm sure you would indicate is only fair, with the proviso that things be allowed to progress as smoothly as possible. Now, it seems to a part of me I don't really _want_ to be listening to, that without a shutting down and cooling off period, we'll get trapped in an eternal circle of trying to get in the last word; I don't think that's good for the story...



> *I would say that by the way it was posted, there was ample time for Kit and Sabrina to respond IC as Vych spoke, turned, spoke to jemal, then walked across the room, then the doors closed.  It wasn't all instantaneous.  But not time enough for us to post.
> 
> I would ask that until Barry sorts this out, that Vych, Jemal, Kit and myself not post IC as it will only lead to more of a mess to sort out. *




I think you hit the nail on the head here (I'm not convinced Caitlyn would be in a state to comment other than in by internal-monologue (which, reading it, is precisely what Kit's done. Cool)).

I must say that I had it framed with Cate and Sabrina in the room, and Jemal and Vychtorya in the doorway. Poor description on my part, I think, which I'll try to pay more attention to in the future.

Regards,

Barry


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## Catulle

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *Here is another thing that I think we all need to discuss out of character.  Pacing of the game.  For the most part the pacing of the game is great.
> 
> But I think some of the problems that have arisen recently are due to the varying speed of posting.*




Agreed almost wholeheartedly from where I'm sitting.



> *We all need to allow enough time between posts to let the other people affected by our posts time to respond, we are all guilty of this to some degree, all of us, and I admit it myself.  But we all need to leave a reasonable amount of time for the reactions of the others in the scene, or we run into problems.*




Likewise, I can only voice my total support for this concept.



> *So the question is how long is a reasonable time to wait between posts to allow the other players to react.  Personally I feel that 24 hours is a fine length of time to wait.  We all seem to post once a day with the exclusion of one or 2 people, so thats fine.  What does everyone else think is a reasonable amount of time?*




I'm happy with whatever people are comfortable with, and I'll try to adjust my patterns to fit. Reaper doesn't post too frequently, Jemal's here and there and Ash has had his moments, too (not unfair, I hope). I haven't found this a problem so far since I've tried to alter my pace to match their expectations (though down the line, who knows). Perhaps if you're in a scene with other PCs likewise inclined, a time 'limit' (by which I read the chance to react before 'nothing' is the assumed (inter)action) may be useful?



> *For somethings though, like when it was just Saby and Cate, we were posting quite often back and forth, but that was ok for a few reasons.  As far as we knew, we were the only two in the room, hence the only ones affected by our posts.  The other reason it was ok, was because we were on IM discussing the scene, so we were going at a speed we were both comfortable with.*




That having been said, the only way you thought Sabrina and Cate were the only ones in the room was because a player wrote it so. I think that jumped the gun a little, for the record, but I liked the results of that. A tight, focused scene that was very undemanding from my perspective (since it handled itself). The only problem, as we've seen before, was the 'blocking'.



> *I really just want to avoid future issues, so maybe we could all vote and discuss this?  What do you think is reasonable?
> 
> 24 hours
> 36 hours
> 48 hours( this is the highest I am personally willing to go, and I would be hesitant on 36 as well, because the game WILL bog down as so many games seem to.) *




Being that I check twice daily at present, and I really have to have my finger on the pulse, I'm not sure I get a vote. If I'm online, I'll check on the game every now and again (equating to a 12 hour thing, I suppose).

Regards,

Barry


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## Catulle

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *ok I will refrain from IC posting until Barry chimes in.*




I'm good once I hear from Jemal, really. I'll keep the other scenes moving, though.

<snip of pacing preferences> I think I covered that above, but wanted to stick with the 'address everything' approach.



> *But I know that people can get busy, but I think that's fine as long as we let each other know when we'll be unavailable, that would work out great. *




I think communication is the key to, well, just about everything.

Regards,

Barry


Edit: See my formatting suck...


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## Catulle

Krizzel said:
			
		

> *For access, I've no idea where ENWorld's server is, but I'd imagine it's possible that we share a common route to it.  Connection for me has been slow over the past couple of days (though it seems pretty good at the moment).  Sounds like you have more computer issues there than just that though (thankfully I've got a 6-month old computer and a cable modem). *




I believe it's in the UK. I think Morrus is from Portsmouth, in fact. Though I could be wrong.

The computer thing seems all good now. I only hope it stays that way.

Regards,

Barry


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## KitanaVorr

I would like to point out that I always ask in the OOC if its okay before I expedite a scene and that I'm completely willing to rewrite the expediting part of the scene if it displeases someone.  

I'm not attached to my posts so I can delete and rewrite anytime.  They're just words and certainly not my best work at writing as I always write them up in just under 5 minutes if I happen to be glancing at the boards. 

So if my expediting is something you don't like, just let me know and I will delete it and rewrite it. I can live with deleting what was just 5 minutes of work for myself.  However I can't speak for anyone else on this matter.


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## Ashrem Bayle

Well, I'd just like to pop up and say that I'm good with my side of things.

My real life obligations have been a problem of late, so my posts have dropped to about once per day, and rarely if ever on the weekends.


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## Krizzel

Vychtorya said:
			
		

> *Yep - saw them with No Doubt a long time ago...Cake opened for No Doubt back when they had their horn section, dancing all over the place... great show. *




Cool!  Yeah, I've seen No Doubt back with the horns (this was about eight years ago before they were big) when they opened for 311.  No Doubt are very good entertainers - very energetic, and I really loved the horns too.  Especially when they played Star Wars 

Much better than some other bands that just stand there and don't move.


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## Krizzel

Catulle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I believe it's in the UK. I think Morrus is from Portsmouth, in fact. Though I could be wrong.
> 
> The computer thing seems all good now. I only hope it stays that way.*



Yep he's in the UK though I'm not sure where.  I'd speculate further about the server but I really don't know where it is at all   Not that it matters given the internet - probably there is a butterfly flapping it's wings in Antarctica and _that_ is what's interfering with our connections.

Glad you've got your computer back in good health.  And you mentioned 'labor intensive' up there somewhere - anything we can help out with?


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## Shalimar

> I tried to roll with that, letting some response go which I'm sure you would indicate is only fair, with the proviso that things be allowed to progress as smoothly as possible. Now, it seems to a part of me I don't really want to be listening to, that without a shutting down and cooling off period, we'll get trapped in an eternal circle of trying to get in the last word; I don't think that's good for the story...




I really am sorry that Sabrina's action was so... provocative,  I was just trying to do what she would do in that situation.  She wouldn't have ignored it.  And I would like to say if Cate or Jemal had yelled at Vych she would have done the same thing to stick up for her, it was just that it was Vych who did the yelling.  I am really sorry, and if you all want me out, I'll leave, don't really want to disrupt the game.

Catulle, I think that if we all just come up with some rules, we will avoid this on in the future.



> You guys do realize how dominating you've been in-character, right?
> How difficult it looks to write in any scene where Sabrina and Caitlyn happen to be in the same room?
> It reads silly, the obsession they have recently had with each other, and the way you guys jumped the gun and posted so many things, moving the action along while not waiting for anyone's input shows that you are both missing how your intense interplay is hedging out other players.




No, I really hadn't realized that.  I thought that everyone was fine with how things were going, and would email me if there were any problems.  I'm sorry if you see Sabrina as a dominatrix (wow, that didn't come out right), I really am.  I would tone her down, but I don't know how.  She is a little girl, a child.  Children want to be the center of attention, thats just the way it is.  She isn't meture enough to know that she can't always be the center of attention.  She has a psychological need to be the center of attention, its in her personality, and its from the fact she is a child, but also because of her history (which not everyone knows).



> What would you have us all do?
> Just sit back and continue to watch your interplay?
> Why don't I pop some popcorn, while I'm at it?
> "Welcome to yet ANOTHER installment of the Cait-n-Saby show!
> When last we left our obsessive pair, they were doing the same thing they're doing now!
> Tune in next week, when they dominate yet another scene!"




Again, very sorry you feel that way, I apologize again for that.  Though I think that you are unfairly casting us as obsessive.  But to each their own.  



> I think it's ironic, and very instructive, that you think it was "OK" for Kitana to do (basically) EXACTLY what Vych did.




Your right, it was no more ok for her to do it then for vych to do it.

But I would like to say something about this, so please try to understand.  Many many tutors do not allow other people to be in the room when they are working with their pupils.  Its distracting, and can lead to arguements as the people generally have their own ideas which they try to interject in the lesson interrupting the 'expert'.  Most that I know refuse to teach in front of others not wanting to deal with it.  I would also add, that Vych had no reason to expect that she would be allowed to remain, she wasn't the employer, she wasn't a family member.  Sabrina just went along with Cate's asking the others to leave, something she would do being that she is a child and easily lead around so long as she is happy.



> As I read it, Vych either had to accept her subservient, miniscule role you'd left for her in the scene, and be ultimately dismissed by Kitana, or she could post, and try to create some room for her character to play in.




Well, I think you are reading it wrong there.  I don't know any character named Kitana.  I do see that Cate dismissed Vychtorya Fayrchylde, not your wife, for in character reasons.



> It reads silly, the obsession they have recently had with each other




Sabrina is a child, she has a craving for attention, she has been alone for going on a week and a half without any company but her brother and her uncle.  She is bored out of her mind.  Like all children she is impatient and wants to be doing something.  Someone has hown up just for her, to do things with her.  I really don't need to defend the relationship between SABRINA and CATE, you don't have all the facts, just be confident in the fact that they are acting true to who they are.



> So do yourself a favor, and ignore what I've written, and don't care about what I think.
> Because it's obvious at this point that we are different people, and we like different things in a game, and I think that Catulle is damn good enough to wrangle our different styles together, and let us all get what we want out of the game.




How is that doing myself a favor?  I really want everyone to be happy with the game, I honestly do.

I do agree whole heartdly, Barry is doing a phenominal job, he really is, and I applaud his efforts.

Please don't take any of this the wrong way.  I am just expressig my confusion and replying to your points.


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## Krizzel

I think we should just let this go and move on - it's going to take a lot of effort and probably frustration to sort all the actions out here.  I think it's better to just gloss over the specifics of what happened (IC speaking here) and keep things moving along before it gets bogged down.

Then perhaps we could put together some guidelines so no wires are crossed in the future?  I think simply indicating in the OOC thread something like "My character is ready to move on with the action" might work, then anyone else in the particular scene can say "yes go ahead and leave" or "no, my character has more to say and we need to play it out."

As for times when someone hasn't responded, I think we could collectively decide on how long we should wait for going ahead and moving on if someone hasn't posted.  That character could covcievably just do nothing or Catulle could decide on some minimal actions (don't want it to be too much work for him, but there shouldn't be the chance of anything too traumatic happening to a character on 'autopilot').

Speaking of timing I want to mention I'll be gone tomorrow and saturday, and Catulle you can go ahead and move my character along while I'm gone if you need to.

Also, in the spirit of trying to move the game on and start anew, would this be a good time for a new OOC thread?  This one is getting pretty big.


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## reapersaurus

Shalimar - I have nothing but respect for the way you get across your replies.
You are MORE than welcome to reply to anything you would like, or ignore anything you would like.
You do not have to apologize for anything you choose to do IC or OOC.
I would rather not have people apologizing left and right.

I would rather just feel comfortable with being able to say how I feel about scenes and my impressions of the story WITHOUT being afraid of escalation and misinterpretation.

My philosophy is that bottling up feelings leads to more intense feelings than letting it out does.
But that's just me...  and as Jemal says, "It's just an opinion"


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## Jemal

first: 
WOOHOO!!! I've been quoted in a message that wasn't directed at me!!  thnx reap. 

Second: 

Gary here:  Jemal - you've been around long enough to know not to talk politics here.

I also highly suggest you change your sig.


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## Ashrem Bayle

A new post might not be a bad idea.

Krizzel -> Most likely, I want be posting on the weekend, so there probably isn't a need to autopilot your actions. 

Unless of course, the other players want to go ahead.


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## Catulle

Well, I'm certainly inclined to put this behemoth to sleep. I'll post a new OOC thread asap (if I can keep my connection alive that long).

Likewise, I'd like to thank you guys for clearing the air a bit here, settling a few concerns and showing willing to get on with the action IC. Speaking of which, I'll update the IC thread to a place where (I hope) we can push ahead with a clearer narrative.

Regards,

Barry


EDIT: Link


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## Catulle

Hey. old-timers - I know a lot of you haven't logged in in years (a lot like me), but if you're interested I've posted an testing-the-waters thread here http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...cruitment-Nuova-Malattia-A-Giovanni-Chronicle, will try to track down the other imported thread from the old baords shortly. Take care!

Barry


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