# Will you buy 5.5e/6e PHB?



## FrogReaver (Feb 16, 2022)

Edition change is right around the corner. Will you buy 5.5e/6e PHB?


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## payn (Feb 16, 2022)

The best thing about the newer editions is all the preview and playtest stuff. A real try before you buy era.


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## HammerMan (Feb 16, 2022)

I voted yes cause I know me... I have to have the new book.

I am worried though, and might jump back to 4e if 6e/5.5/annaversy edition is going to split the groups anyway.


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## Umbran (Feb 16, 2022)

Probably.  I'll be curious.


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## Laurefindel (Feb 16, 2022)

Not for the character races changes and a handful of new feats, but if spells are changed or the concentration tag is shuffled around, then I will seriously consider it.


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## Yora (Feb 16, 2022)

I don't have any kind of clue what kind of product is even on offer here.


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## Lyxen (Feb 16, 2022)

So far, there is no such thing as 5.5/6e in the works. It's only an anniversary edition that is supposed to be backwards compatible. But there will be playtest and lots of information when it comes out, so I'll see then, although I'll obviously be very curious about the contents.


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## Jer (Feb 16, 2022)

Buy it? Of course - I know who I am.

Play it? If it's what I think it's going to be probably - if it's actually just 5e with errata and tweaks and my 5e players don't have to buy into it for me to use the material then yes.  Otherwise probably not.  My 5e players aren't going to buy new books just because an anniversary edition is around the corner.  They're mostly kids and/or have too many other things to spend their money on.  (Heck for most of the kids I'm the one who bought them their first books - Johnny D&D-seed planting D&D books across the land...)

If it's a full edition upgrade where my players need new books then forget it.  Unlike the 3e switch where I was begging for a new edition when it came, 5e is a reasonable game for what it is and for the groups it doesn't work for I have 13th age.  I don't need D&D to be a different game.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 16, 2022)

payn said:


> The best thing about the newer editions is all the preview and playtest stuff. A real try before you buy era.



I tend to avoid play test material and aloha/beta test games.  

I can and sometimes do make exceptions but in general I want to experience the final product.  

For example I’m excited about Baulders Gate 3 but haven’t purchased it while they are still creating it.


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## DND_Reborn (Feb 16, 2022)

I'll look it over in the bookstore. Unless I see some serious changes for the better (IMO), then definitely not.


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## payn (Feb 16, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> I tend to avoid play test material and aloha/beta test games.
> 
> I can and sometimes do make exceptions but in general I want to experience the final product.
> 
> For example I’m excited about Baulders Gate 3 but haven’t purchased it while they are still creating it.



If I get a chance, however slim, to influence the final product I will. I also want to make an informed purchase, so im not with ya on this.


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## Nebulous (Feb 16, 2022)

Laurefindel said:


> Not for the character races changes and a handful of new feats, but if spells are changed or the concentration tag is shuffled around, then I will seriously consider it.



If they significantly change concentration spells and even the concentration mechanic. I don't like how it is a Con roll; I can't tell you how many times my monster's spells are ruined goddamned immediately because they can't maintain it after getting wailed on.  I prefer a Concentration skill so you can get better at it. Also, they would need to address bonus actions.  If they juggle that stuff around I would be inclined to purchase the new edition. If they don't, and it is mostly light fluff alterations, I won't be.  So it is far too early to tell.

Edit: but I do realize, since they've claimed it is backwards compatible, I really don't think they will be changing that much.


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## HammerMan (Feb 16, 2022)

Nebulous said:


> If they significantly change concentration spells and even the concentration mechanic. I don't like how it is a Con roll; I can't tell you how many times my monster's spells are ruined goddamned immediately because they can't maintain it after getting wailed on.  I prefer a Concentration skill so you can get better at it. Also, they would need to address bonus actions.  If they juggle that stuff around I would be inclined to purchase the new edition. If they don't, and it is mostly light fluff alterations, I won't be.  So it is far too early to tell.



I actially wonder why holding mental concentration on something (through pain or other situations) is a physical check anyway... I almost wish it was a wis or cha check... then again con is already brutally underused.

Normally I am all about fighter and martial power... but today for right now let me say this... Modifing concentration to make it more player/dm friendly would be a boon.


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## delericho (Feb 16, 2022)

Maybe.

On the one hand, there's a lot of scope for significantly improving the game with relatively little change. And the binding on my 5 books has never been right, so this would be a good opportunity to fix that.

On the other hand, I've very much fallen out of love with gaming in general, and D&D in particular. There's a big part of me that is thinking I'll be hanging up the dice bag at the end of my current campaigns. In which case, it would just be money for books to sit on a shelf.

Also... the new PHB is all well and good, but what I'm _really_ interested to see is the new DMG - and in particular, whether they've actually managed to produce a _good_ one this time.


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## Azzy (Feb 16, 2022)

Probably. I'm hoping for some fixes here and there. We'll see once it comes out, though.


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## Lord Shark (Feb 16, 2022)

Unlikely. I've skipped 5E entirely, and it doesn't look like 5.5/6E is going to do much to change my problems with the game.


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## Nebulous (Feb 16, 2022)

delericho said:


> Also... the new PHB is all well and good, but what I'm _really_ interested to see is the new DMG - and in particular, whether they've actually managed to produce a _good_ one this time.



That's what I was thinking.  A good DMG that actually has great ideas and alternate subsystems, and not a blanket catchall "give advantage or disadvantage."  Ugh.  We will never see the likes of Gary's original DMG again, we are far too jaded, but that's what I would love, a massive sprawling book of ideas that makes ME the Dungeon Master feel like I'm holding something special.


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## carmachu (Feb 16, 2022)

So the answer is maybe. Depends on what they do and how they do it. I have heard this backwards compatible statement before so i am skeptical.

But to be honest, i have slot of material, more I can buy on drive thru, and I can always go back to 3.5\P1 or try out some of the lighter OSR rule sets. Or to be more honest, I am itching to run something non D&D


So depends


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## Professor Murder (Feb 16, 2022)

Yes. Day one. Alt cover.


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## King Babar (Feb 16, 2022)

Firmly undecided.

I think it's far too early for me to make a decision, especially with there being so little information on what this edition will actually entail.


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## Weiley31 (Feb 16, 2022)

They say its backwards compatible so yes.


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## DEFCON 1 (Feb 16, 2022)

Yep.  Won't necessarily need it, most likely won't use all of it, but heck... at the end of the day it's just going to be a book of 5E House Rules published by Wizards of the Coast.  So why wouldn't I buy it?  My game already includes bunches of house rules, and I buy most of the rules-facing other books WotC publishes (which are also pretty much just giant books of House Rules to the core three 5E books)... so no reason not to think I wouldn't add these to my collection of potential House Rules too.


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## TheAlkaizer (Feb 16, 2022)

We know near to nothing about it. I can't really have made a decision. But I'm most likely done with 5E as a whole, I've been diving in other games.


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## Jer (Feb 16, 2022)

delericho said:


> Also... the new PHB is all well and good, but what I'm _really_ interested to see is the new DMG - and in particular, whether they've actually managed to produce a _good_ one this time.



I'm waiting for the edition when they finally cop to the fact that they could release a "Monster Manual and Tome of Treasure" that includes encounter building advice and ditch the idea of DMG core book entirely.  Then release a book of DM options down the line as an optional expansion book.

I'll probably wait forever because having 3 books for the game is as much a tradition as having 6 stats that range from 3-18, but I live in hope!


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 16, 2022)

If there's actual improvements.

Tashas and the new thing suggest there will be in come ways, but I'm still not sure they'll be bold enough to make the improvements I want to see.


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## Stormonu (Feb 16, 2022)

I chose “No” as I’m sick of edition changes and have the edition I enjoy.  However, my answer is actually “Unlikely”, as if there are significantly positive changes, I might relent and switch.  But with the route Tasha’s and the latest round of books have been taking, I don’t suspect I’ll be on board with what’s coming.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 16, 2022)

Yora said:


> I don't have any kind of clue what kind of product is even on offer here.



I'm with you and somewhat confused myself what the product is, a half edition (5.5) or completely new one (6E).


Weiley31 said:


> They say its backwards compatible so yes.



Maybe this is semantics, but I'd like a new edition that advances the game that you can use previous editions with if you want rather than a stunted half edition designed to be backwards compatible.


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## DarkCrisis (Feb 16, 2022)

Maybe.  Just the PHB perhaps.

I'm fairly done with 5E.  It's never really clicked with me. IE it isn't what I want D&D to be (more to do with difficulty than streamlining races etc).  I'm learning more to going back to AD&D and/or Basic.

I'd PLAY 5.5 or 6E though but I wouldn't DM it.  And I've been a Forever DM since 3E.


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## Jer (Feb 16, 2022)

R_J_K75 said:


> Maybe this is semantics, but I'd like a new edition that advances the game that you can use previous editions with if you want rather than a stunted half edition designed to be backwards compatible.



I mean, I don't think anyone sets out to create a crummy product, so I'm pretty sure Wizards would like something that is perceived as better than what is there now.

But also like I've said - I don't think Wizards is interested in rocking the boat.  I don't even think they're hoping to advance the game significantly mechanically with this release, but they can't pass up the anniversary without doing something special.  IMO they'll call it a success if they release it and most of the complaints about it are "this isn't a new edition at all - it's the same 5e with different artwork and some tweaks."  I think they'd count that as win not a loss.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 16, 2022)

Most likely I will but Im undecided at this point and will wait to see contents and price.  I'm not interested in taking part in a playtest though because ultimately whatever they release is what it is.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 16, 2022)

Jer said:


> I mean, I don't think anyone sets out to create a crummy product, so I'm pretty sure Wizards would like something that is perceived as better than what is there now.
> 
> But also like I've said - I don't think Wizards is interested in rocking the boat.  I don't even think they're hoping to advance the game significantly mechanically with this release, but they can't pass up the anniversary without doing something special.  IMO they'll call it a success if they release it and most of the complaints about it are "this isn't a new edition at all - it's the same 5e with different artwork and some tweaks."  I think they'd count that as win not a loss.



Guess this all depends on what's eventually released.


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## South by Southwest (Feb 16, 2022)

IMO 5e works well, so I'm not going to leave it or fork over money for anything new unless and until I see strong evidence from early adopters that it works better than what I already have.

I'm the same way with adopting technology (much to the frustration of Microsoft).


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 16, 2022)

I voted yes, although of course I have to see the product first and I will probably wait for a german translation (because I have a son who probably will be able to read it soon).
If it is not to my tastes, I will not buy it. Simple as that.


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## UngainlyTitan (Feb 16, 2022)

I voted yes but I am almost certainly to buy the PHB, just to see what is in it, if for no other reason. I am not so sure on the DMG. If it is really backward compatible then I might not )r maybe only the VTT version). 
The MM, maybe but only for my active VTT campaigns. I do see me buying more physical monster books unless for some reason I get back into face to face gaming.


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## Fanaelialae (Feb 16, 2022)

I voted yes, but in actuality it's just probably (I've bought the PHB for every other edition). We'll see what's what when there are some actual details regarding it.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 16, 2022)

Fanaelialae said:


> I voted yes, but in actuality it's just probably (I've bought the PHB for every other edition). We'll see what's what when there are some actual details regarding it.



Yea, my No was more of a probably not.


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## Stalker0 (Feb 16, 2022)

this is damn early for such a poll. I mean we know very little about the new edition, heck its not even finished yet. That's like asking me if I'm going to buy a 2023 Toyota before its even been made.


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## Yaarel (Feb 16, 2022)

50e is important, and I will buy it no matter what.

Also, I expect the 50e to be awesome.


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## Yaarel (Feb 16, 2022)

Stalker0 said:


> this is damn early for such a poll. I mean we know very little about the new edition, heck its not even finished yet. That's like asking me if I'm going to buy a 2023 Toyota before its even been made.



Yeah, the designers have about two more years before deciding the content for 50e.


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## Neonchameleon (Feb 16, 2022)

It depends how good it is. I didn't buy 3.5, waited a year before buying 4e, and waited lots of years before waiting 5e (long enough for them to take Zak S and the RPG Pundit out of the acknowledgements).


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## Argyle King (Feb 16, 2022)

I'm more likely to buy a 6e than a 5.5e.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 16, 2022)

Stalker0 said:


> this is damn early for such a poll. I mean we know very little about the new edition, heck its not even finished yet. That's like asking me if I'm going to buy a 2023 Toyota before its even been made.



I think it will be interesting to remake this poll next year and then before the product comes out in 2024 and see how the results have changed over time.


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## J.Quondam (Feb 16, 2022)

Didn't vote, for lack of a "It's way too early to worry" option.
I feel about the next edition much the same way I feel about nigh constant political campaigning, and for similar reasons.


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## aco175 (Feb 16, 2022)

I bought every new edition and found that it was fine and fun to play, so I will buy this one even if the 'old' one is still fine and that I could still play for years on the modules and books from that edition.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 16, 2022)

J.Quondam said:


> Didn't vote, for lack of a "It's way too early to worry" option.
> I feel about the next edition much the same way I feel about nigh constant political campaigning, and for similar reasons.



Curious why you feel the undecided option doesn’t include that position?


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## J.Quondam (Feb 16, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> Curious why you feel the undecided option doesn’t include that position?



To me, "Undecided" is something along the lines of "I haven't made up my mind yet, given what I know about the new edition."

My feeling is better expressed as "Anything we know about the new edition at this point is still completely speculative/unreliable, so I don't really have enough relevant info to even be honestly undecided."

Not sure if that distinction makes sense to anyone else, but that's how look at  it this early on.


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## CleverNickName (Feb 16, 2022)

Eh, I probably won't.  5E is versatile enough to run just about any style of game I want to play, and easy enough to house-rule any changes that a "point-five" edition could present.  Unless there are some vast and sweeping changes to the core mechanics of the game (I'm talking something _drastic,_ like they drop the d20 and go with a 3d6 system), and unless I agree that those changes are for the better, I'll just keep playing 5E.   And with all the talk about backwards-compatibility, "sweeping changes that I agree with" seems unlikely.

Since nothing I've seen so far warrants a completely new edition, 5th Edition will likely be my evergreen edition.


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## Mezuka (Feb 16, 2022)

I haven't DMed D&D 5e for the last two years and don't plan to DM D&D anytime soon. I might buy it if I play in another DM's campaign.


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## Composer99 (Feb 16, 2022)

I'll probably buy the new PHB, if only because mine is falling apart (the binding issue). If the MM and DMG have quality of life improvements, them too.


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## LuisCarlos17f (Feb 16, 2022)

I had to await a lot of years untile the core book were translated into Spanish. My D&D 5ed books are relatively new, and the last title translated into my language was Volo's guide of monsters. To spend my money I would rather other books to be translanted before.


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## Jer (Feb 16, 2022)

Yaarel said:


> Yeah, the designers have about two more years before deciding the content for 50e.



I mean, if printing and shipping keep where they are they might not have 2 years...


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## Frozen_Heart (Feb 16, 2022)

Depends. If it's 5e with its flaws fixed, or a new edition which solves the issues I have with the system. Then yeah sure I'll buy it. Doesn't matter if it's backwards compatible or not if they do it right imo.

If it's just 5e, but not backwards compatible smoothly, but also doesn't actually fix any problems I have with the system. And then goes and doubles down on every single thing I dislike about it such as oversimplification and removal of significant player choices, then I'm definitely not buying it.

Judging from the current design direction, I'm 90% sure it will be the latter.


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## Greg K (Feb 16, 2022)

Most likely not.
I am probably dropping D&D completely from my list of options to run/play and switching entirely to other systems for fantasy:

Barbarians of Lemuria, BASH! Legends of Steel, and/or  Beasts & Barbarians for Sword & Sorcery (for Savage Worlds) for Swords & Sorcery
Honor + Intrigue for Swashbuckling/ Flintlock Fantasy
BASH! Fantasy, Fantasy Hero 4e/5e, Tiny Dungeon 2e, and/or GURPS Fantasy for everything else (e.g. Arthurian Fantasy, Gothic Fantasy, High Fantasy, Mythic Fantasy)


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## THEMNGMNT (Feb 16, 2022)

Highly likely I will buy the 2024 books.


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## Li Shenron (Feb 16, 2022)

Usually I don't buy half editions or even-numbered editions, but I don't know yet


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## Sabathius42 (Feb 16, 2022)

I think 5e is when D&D and myself have agreed that the relationship isn't working out anymore.  If a 5.5e is released as backwards compatible I'll still play using my 5e info.  Im most likely done collecting 5e in general (besides supporting some 3rd party companies).


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## GreyLord (Feb 16, 2022)

Trick Question...

5.5...undecided.

6e...probably.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 16, 2022)

GreyLord said:


> Trick Question...
> 
> 5.5...undecided.
> 
> 6e...probably.



Intent was about the 2024 edition as I’ve seen it referenced a few different ways.


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## dave2008 (Feb 16, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> Edition change is right around the corner. Will you buy 5.5e/6e PHB?



I don't yet consider it an edition change so I chose undecided.  From what I have seen of the PHB changes so far I am not inclined to purchase.  However, if they go a bit further, then I probably will.


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## dave2008 (Feb 16, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> I tend to avoid play test material and aloha/beta test games.
> 
> I can and sometimes do make exceptions but in general I want to experience the final product.
> 
> For example I’m excited about Baulders Gate 3 but haven’t purchased it while they are still creating it.



He wasn't talking about buying first. I believe he was talking about the playtesting (UA content and possibly more) that was promissed before the release of the anniversary edition.


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## dave2008 (Feb 16, 2022)

R_J_K75 said:


> I'm with you and somewhat confused myself what the product is, a half edition (5.5) or completely new one (6E).



It also might be mostly errata and race changes, which I don't feel deserves even the 5.5 label.


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## Nebulous (Feb 16, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> It also be mostly errata and race changes, which I don't feel deserves even the 5.5 label.



I think you are right.  They'll capitalize on the anniversary to rev up sales and interest, but the rules aren't going to change much.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 16, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> He wasn't talking about buying first.



Neither was I. 


dave2008 said:


> I believe he was talking about the playtesting (UA content and possibly more) that was promissed before the release of the anniversary edition.



I believe so as well.


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## Gradine (Feb 16, 2022)

My answer is less "undecided" and more "it depends".

It's definitely not going to be anything remotely resembling a "6e" in name or in fact. Whether or not I buy it depends on to the extent it is truly a "5.5" product or if it's just a reprint with all the Tasha's stuff in it.


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## Helldritch (Feb 16, 2022)

I will definitely buy the alt cover. The collector in me will not resist.

Use it? That is an other matter entirely. If they go the way I suspect,  it will be the last book I buy in the D&D line. I have more than enough material to die of old age before I have nothing left to use.


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## not-so-newguy (Feb 16, 2022)

Undecided. I'll only get it if the rest of the group insists on changing.


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## Urriak Uruk (Feb 17, 2022)

Probably, but I don't buy anything until I know at least a little about it. And we know squat about what the new revisions will be.


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## JEB (Feb 17, 2022)

payn said:


> The best thing about the newer editions is all the preview and playtest stuff. A real try before you buy era.





Lyxen said:


> But there will be playtest and lots of information when it comes out, so I'll see then, although I'll obviously be very curious about the contents.



Little of MOTM was publicly playtested: just the new kobold and hobgoblin, and the latter didn't acknowledge it was going to become the new default. (Technically you could also count the harengon and fairy, but they appeared in Witchlight first.) And the polls so far have been extremely general, with little indication of why they're asking the questions they are.

So I do wonder just how much of 2024 edition will be given an open playtest, compared to 2014 5E. We may not get a complete picture of many changes until they're basically a done deal. But we'll see over the next two years!


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## JEB (Feb 17, 2022)

As for the question in the OP, very firmly undecided. In 2021 I switched from "pre-order all things 5E sight unseen", with few exceptions, to "be very picky and wait for the reviews." I very much doubt that stance will shift before the 2024 books are released, unless I'm extremely impressed by the previews. And even then it needs to be enjoyable to page through in the store, or I may still pass.


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## beancounter (Feb 17, 2022)

If there  is enough meaningful changes and content (that I like), I will.

If it's little more than window dressing, I won't.

If they make it so that classes and races are little more than a skin that you can gumball abilities with, I won't


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## Brotton Goodfellow (Feb 17, 2022)

No. Because any changes I want to make to 5E (which are few) I can do myself at this point and I have zero interest in any of the official products WotC is putting out. I’m not angry, just disappointed.

After 5E, I’ll be looking to other TTRPG’s. Maybe after a season of other systems will I’ll dive back into official content.


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## Hex08 (Feb 17, 2022)

Nope. I've been playing RPGs since the Basic/Expert sets and with the demise of 3.5 I decided to not give TSR/WotC/Hasbro any more of my money. I moved on to Pathfinder 1e and other games since. I have so much D&D gaming material for AD&D/D&D 3.x/Pathfinder/Castles & Crusades that there is no reason for me to spend more money on D&D. Add to that all of the other RPGs I own and I have more material than I could hope to use in my lifetime. New School D&D just doesn't offer anything to me that my older stuff and new games don't.


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## Zardnaar (Feb 17, 2022)

Probably not and maybe. 

 Idk if I'll be playing D&D by then so who knows.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 17, 2022)

Undecided.  If it’s substantially like 5th, then no.  If it’s something new, maybe.


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## Doc_Klueless (Feb 17, 2022)

If they redo the Halfling art so they no longer have a dancing bobblehead mutant as an example in the Ancestry Descriptions, I'm definitely in!

(Actually, I'm in anyway. )


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## beancounter (Feb 17, 2022)

Doc_Klueless said:


> If they redo the Halfling art so they no longer have a dancing bobblehead mutant as an example in the Ancestry Descriptions, I'm definitely in!
> 
> (Actually, I'm in anyway. )




Yep, that picture has always bothered me. I wonder how it ever got past the editor...


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## dave2008 (Feb 17, 2022)

JEB said:


> Little of MOTM was publicly playtested: just the new kobold and hobgoblin, and the latter didn't acknowledge it was going to become the new default. (Technically you could also count the harengon and fairy, but they appeared in Witchlight first.) And the polls so far have been extremely general, with little indication of why they're asking the questions they are.
> 
> So I do wonder just how much of 2024 edition will be given an open playtest, compared to 2014 5E. We may not get a complete picture of many changes until they're basically a done deal. But we'll see over the next two years!



The difference is that when the announced the 2024 update they said it would be play tested. They never said that about MOTM.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 17, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> The difference is that when the announced the 2024 update they said it would be play tested. They never said that about MOTM.



On the bright side, promising a playtest does mean there will likely be some fairly significant changes.


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## LoganRan (Feb 17, 2022)

I haven't liked any version of WotC D&D.

3E? Nope. 4E? Nope. 5E? Nope. Three strikes and you're out.

They've had 20+ years to make a version of D&D I would actually like and have failed to do so. I see no reason to believe they will "get it right" (for me) with the next (non) edition.


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## dave2008 (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> On the bright side, promising a playtest does mean there will likely be some fairly significant changes.



You would think, but I still doubt it for some reason.  I guess I am one of those that doesn't see a need for changes so I guess that is why I doubt it.  It is not like they are ever going to adopt our house-rules and I don't really need anything else changed, so...


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## dave2008 (Feb 17, 2022)

LoganRan said:


> I haven't liked any version of WotC D&D.
> 
> 3E? Nope. 4E? Nope. 5E? Nope. Three strikes and you're out.
> 
> They've had 20+ years to make a version of D&D I would actually like and have failed to do so. I see no reason to believe they will "get it right" (for me) with the next (non) edition.



Interesting. I think every version of WotC D&D has seen some improvement over TSR D&D. Not whole cloth, but various parts and pieces.  If I coble together my ideal version of D&D it would be 75% WotC D&D + 10% TSR D&D + 10% dave2008 D&D or there about.

PS Those percentages are just talking about the parts that are different between the systems. I am not counting ideas like hit points, armor class, etc. that are shared by all versions.


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## payn (Feb 17, 2022)

Doc_Klueless said:


> If they redo the Halfling art so they no longer have a dancing bobblehead mutant as an example in the Ancestry Descriptions, I'm definitely in!
> 
> (Actually, I'm in anyway. )



I call it pixar fatling art.


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## Jer (Feb 17, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> Interesting. I think every version of WotC D&D has seen some improvement over TSR D&D. Not whole cloth, but various parts and pieces.  If I coble together my ideal version of D&D it would be 75% WotC D&D + 10% TSR D&D + 10% dave2008 D&D or there about.
> 
> PS Those percentages are just talking about the parts that are different between the systems. I am not counting ideas like hit points, armor class, etc. that are shared by all versions.



The only versions of TSR D&D I ever enjoyed were B/X and BECMI. As ready as I was to jump off of D&D 3e when the edition was coming to an end it was the thing that brought me back to D&D.


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 17, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> It also might be mostly errata and race changes, which I don't feel deserves even the 5.5 label.




I am 99% sure, short rest recharges go the way of the dodo.
Of course, all you need to do is deleting x/short rest and adding  x*prof bonus/long rest
You can decide if you just add a reservoir of x*prof bonus directly, or have x points you can recharge (prof bonus - times) times or if you have prof bonus points that recharge x - 1times.

A wording for (prof bonus - 1) recharges could be:
You can use the ability x times prof bonus. 
After using ability x times you need to spend an action to refocus.

Or you just say: refocus prof bonus times per long rest and just accept that you have 1 more use than actually expected (that is about the free use, many abilities currently have)
A monk level 2 would then have 6 ki points per day (3 times 2) which is actually quite comfortable. 
Or they just have 4, but that would result in 120 ki points at level 20, which they can freely use. A 4e monk will straight up go from borderline underpowered and unfun to outright broken (24 fireballs per day, water whip that might do 122d10 damage).


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## FrogReaver (Feb 17, 2022)

UngeheuerLich said:


> I am 99% sure, short rest recharges go the way of the dodo.
> Of course, all you need to do is deleting x/short rest and adding  x*prof bonus/long rest
> You can decide if you just add a reservoir of x*prof bonus directly, or have x points you can recharge (prof bonus - times) times or if you have prof bonus points that recharge x - 1times.
> 
> ...



Imo they can’t get rid of short rests because of warlocks. It’s the major differentiation between them and other casters.


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> Imo they can’t get rid of short rests because of warlocks. It’s the major differentiation between them and other casters.



Why?
They can use their spells 1 to 4 times per day.
Then sacrifice a cat/rat/frog and recharge it with a 1 minute ritual prof bonus times per day. Done.

*in the worst case they make it an hourlong ritual that can be done during a short rest.

I don't think shor rest will go. They are still used for attunement and spending hit dice.


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## Mind of tempest (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> Imo they can’t get rid of short rests because of warlocks. It’s the major differentiation between them and other casters.



or they could give them a real reason to be different from other casters?

personally, I am only unlikely to not buy it if there are no major changes in that case I will be looking into a really good monk homebrew.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 17, 2022)

Mind of tempest said:


> or they could give them a real reason to be different from other casters?



I don’t see a complete redesigning of the warlock class in the cards.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 17, 2022)

UngeheuerLich said:


> Why?
> They can use their spells 1 to 4 times per day.
> Then sacrifice a cat/rat/frog and recharge it with a 1 minute ritual prof bonus times per day. Done.
> 
> ...



Sounds basically like short resting with a daily limitation to me.


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> Sounds basically like short resting with a daily limitation to me.



Exactly. This will allow to generally get rid of short rests for recharge, but allows to keep the flavour of warlocks. It is a very rere exception from the general rule and no more unlimited spells per day. The coffelock, the warlockadin and tge celestial warlock unlimited healer all cease to exist, while for all practical plays, the warlock is buffed instead of nerfed. (if you require shorter than 1hour rituals for recharging, which I would favour).


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## dave2008 (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> Imo they can’t get rid of short rests because of warlocks. It’s the major differentiation between them and other casters.



I agree with @UngeheuerLich that short rest mechanics days seem numbered. If that is the case, I think the warlock could be one of the biggest changes. It could be a complete revamped class, which could be good or bad.

I get the reason for eliminating short rest mechanics, but I would prefer they stay.


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## dave2008 (Feb 17, 2022)

Mind of tempest said:


> personally, I am only unlikely to not buy it if there are no major changes in that case I will be looking into a really good monk homebrew.



I don't know about no major changes, but I would expect very few.


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 17, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> I agree with @UngeheuerLich that short rest mechanics days seem numbered. If that is the case, I think the warlock could be one of the biggest changes. It could be a complete revamped class, which could be good or bad.
> 
> I get the reason for eliminating short rest mechanics, but I would prefer they stay.



I was totally with you until I recognized, that prof bonus per day and then putting everyone on the same clock will allow me to pace the adventuring day a lot better.
Right now I have a very unique rest pattern that i feel is not necessary to introduce until level 5. I often thought about changin short rest abilities to 3/long rest, but felt it was too generous at level 1 (without recharging in some way) and not enough at higher levels.
Prof bonus per day probably does exactly what I want. As I said here or elsewhere. Maybe I just try it out soon.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 17, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> I agree with @UngeheuerLich that short rest mechanics days seem numbered. If that is the case, I think the warlock could be one of the biggest changes. It could be a complete revamped class, which could be good or bad.
> 
> I get the reason for eliminating short rest mechanics, but I would prefer they stay.



What he described as the potential replacement was just slightly reimagined short rests with a different name.

I don’t see how that potential change makes their days numbered?


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> What he described as the potential replacement was just slightly reimagined short rests with a different name.
> 
> I don’t see how that potential change makes their days numbered?




You don't understand it right.
Short rests will stay for hd recharge anyway.
Your point was: they can't get rid of shirt rest becauss warlocks. 
I said, that even if warlocks do something similar to recharge on a short rest (which is actually recharging on a long rest), recharges on a short rest can still be eliminated as a general rule. 

Also, by limiting the numbers of short rest lile recharges, you will still have everyone on the same clock. If you have short rest as a good night's sleep and long rests as a week of rest, warlocks won't trump every other caster, because they can comparably go foreve without real long rests and so on.


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## dave2008 (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> What he described as the potential replacement was just slightly reimagined short rests with a different name.
> 
> I don’t see how that potential change makes their days numbered?



My apologies for the confusion, I wasn't agree with their warlock example, just the idea the class mechanics that use short rest will go away (I still think we will have them for attunement, HD healing, etc.).

I think their is a chance the warlock gets a thorough redesign.  If it wasn't for all recent classes using the prof. bonus per day mechanic instead of short-rest mechanics I would have never thought this, but it seems to be they way they are going.


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## Scribe (Feb 17, 2022)

Based on general direction, nope.


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## FrogReaver (Feb 17, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> My apologies for the confusion, I wasn't agree with their warlock example, just the idea the class mechanics that use short rest will go away (I still think we will have them for attunement, HD healing, etc.).



I don’t think features like the warlocks casting can get away from short rest recovery in some form.



dave2008 said:


> I think their is a chance the warlock gets a thorough redesign.  If it wasn't for all recent classes using the prof. bonus per day mechanic instead of short-rest mechanics I would have never thought this, but it seems to be they way they are going.



I agree going forward they are moving away from it. That doesn’t mean things already designed without that philosophy will be redesigned for it.

Single use per short rest abilities seem more likely to go that route. Multi-use per short rest abilities seem less likely in my estimation.  Especially warlocks who at level 3 could have 6 level 2 slots. Far above what a wizard gets. Just as an example.  Or level 11 they would get 1 6th and 12 5th level slots (going by prof times per day)


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## dave2008 (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> I don’t think features like the warlocks casting can get away from short rest recovery in some form.



I'm not really a class designer, so I am not sure.  But I could see it lean into class features more and less reliant on spells in general.


FrogReaver said:


> I agree going forward they are moving away from it. That doesn’t mean things already designed without that philosophy will be redesigned for it.



True, but that is what I expect none the less. I would be happy to be wrong.


FrogReaver said:


> Single use per short rest abilities seem more likely to go that route. Multi-use per short rest abilities seem less likely in my estimation.  Especially warlocks who at level 3 could have 6 level 2 slots. Far above what a wizard gets. Just as an example.  Or level 11 they would get 1 6th and 12 5th level slots (going by prof times per day)



That is why I think the warlock could be a complete redesign.


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 17, 2022)

FrogReaver said:


> I don’t think features like the warlocks casting can get away from short rest recovery in some form.
> 
> 
> I agree going forward they are moving away from it. That doesn’t mean things already designed without that philosophy will be redesigned for it.
> ...




Then probably recharge prof bonus/2 rounded up per day.

That will be 1 to 3 recharges (2 to 4 times 2 to 4 spells of level 1 to 5) It is easy to dial it up or down a bit. But it is no dealbreaker.


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## ersatzphil (Feb 17, 2022)

Eh?

When 3.5 came out, I kept all my 3.0 books, but picked up the new PHB if only to see what the changes were. My group picked what changes we liked from 3.5, applied them to our ongoing game, and ignored the ones we didn't care for. I expect to do the same this time.


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## OB1 (Feb 17, 2022)

I expect 5eAE to be nothing more than an assimilation of the optional rules found in existing products like Tasha's with some of them becoming the new default state (and switching old rules to optional).  It will simply replace the core 3 rule set as the default starting point, still fully compatible with all existing APs, GtEs and CSs.  It will primarily be for new players, but also useful to existing players and groups as a way to consolidate those rules from across multiple books into one neat package.  The original 5e core will continue to work just fine with new APs and CSs as well.  So I guess I'm a yes if that's the case.

If this is an actual 5.5 or 6, and is not compatible with existing product and/or new product after isn't compatible with it, I'll probably stick with 5e until there is a compelling enough digital product (fully integrated VTT) that would make my life running games easy enough to switch.


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## JEB (Feb 18, 2022)

dave2008 said:


> The difference is that when the announced the 2024 update they said it would be play tested. They never said that about MOTM.



Sure, but they didn't say how much of D&D 2024 would be playtested. Technically about 1/15 of MOTM was playtested as well.

And I bring up MOTM because this is the first time such a massive amount of player-facing content was released without significant public playtesting, and because the changes in question affected such a large chunk of the game (nearly every previously published PC race). It may represent a philosophical shift, or at least a view that changes to existing content don't need public playtesting to the same extent as new material. 

But again, we'll see, won't we?


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## Talmek (Feb 18, 2022)

I'll have to pass. While I've enjoyed watching the hobby grow from 3e to today, I'm fully invested in 5e and have sunk a considerable amount of disposable income (along with my players) into the ecosystem. I think we're really happy overall with the system and it will take us a long time to play through all the adventures we've purchased over the years.


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## dave2008 (Feb 18, 2022)

JEB said:


> Sure, but they didn't say how much of D&D 2024 would be playtested. Technically about 1/15 of MOTM was playtested as well.
> 
> And I bring up MOTM because this is the first time such a massive amount of player-facing content was released without significant public playtesting, and because the changes in question affected such a large chunk of the game (nearly every previously published PC race). It may represent a philosophical shift, or at least a view that changes to existing content don't need public playtesting to the same extent as new material.
> 
> But again, we'll see, won't we?



Sure, you could be correct.  I guess I have two related thoughts:

I don't expect there to be a lot of content in the 2024 update that needs play testing. So I would expect significantly less play testing than we got with O5e.
I don't think the recent changes to races in Tasha's and MOTM needed play testing. They could have done a survey to ask if people want / like the change, but it is not like they need to play test the mechanical change, IMO.


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## teitan (Feb 21, 2022)

Depends on the compatibility and right now I am leaning no. I am not all that happy about Mordy's Multiverse and all the little iterative changes to the rules they've been introducing through the books the last two years or so. Not lore changes, that's all on me. But the modifications that seem to render previous books null in some stat blocks and now a big book that essentially squelches previous monster books and is reprints. Consolidating races with updated mechanics, if it is the final form, I am down with, the whole reprint of two other books that I already own make the book seem superfluous and unnecessary. Before anyone goes off the handle about "not liking change"... I am fine with change, when it is time and makes sense, but we are seeing change like in the 4e era where it was a constant, fiddly change that was neverending except there it was patches to fix problems that showed system break downs. To me this whole book comes across as a Monster Manual 2 that should have come out in year 2 of the revised edition and not two years beforehand. 

Will I get the revised edition though? That remains to be seen because I will be 48-49 when that comes out and have enough material to play for decades. I am fine with how 5e works now, no complaints with it so unless the revision is a blow my socks off in the way that 5e and 3e did, or my players wants to "upgrade" wholesale, I will probably wait or buy it out of curiosity.


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