# Pathfinder level 20



## fireinthedust (Nov 22, 2010)

This will be a Scenario for 20th level characters.

I'm picking characters based on Classic style and interesting features for me as a GM.

Hint:  I like classic themes, especially of Sword & Sorcery in the vein of Robert E. Howard and Michael Moorcock.  I'd really like characters who are masters of their art and are heroic.  I don't care for goofy concepts (though humour is great, not for the main characters; feel free to have a henchman for that stuff).  

[sblock=CREATION GUIDELINES]

subjects to adjustment

Ability Scores:  25 point buy, build up normally from 1st (ie adjust stats as you level, race, etc.)
HP: Max, but you'll be fighting tough monsters.
Traits:  No

Sources:  Pathfinder Core and SRD.  

Starting Gold:  (tbd; I'm leaning towards Treasure by level, but I'm not sure what the party could use.  I haven't done 20th level before, so I dunno).[/sblock]





Posting Expectations:

1)  Regular posts, and frequent.  I check every day.  If we do combat or have a group decision, I will give three days and then move the group forward.

2)  Fall behind at your peril.  This is a most dangerous game, and if you leave it without notice your character may be devoured most horribly by fell creatures.  

3)  I will present the world for you to explore.  You have options at your disposal, and you will need them.  Please use them.  If I describe a scene or doorway, ask yourself what you'd do in that situation.  Take the initiative, explore it, make the world your own.  

4)  I want to be entertained.  Bring something to the table, or it gets boring for me the GM.  I write fiction by myself, don't make me roleplay by myself.  Take the initiative, and do something.

5)  Respect the group dynamic: interact and try to gel.  We have an opportunity to get a really fantastic group going.  You'll have a limited number of games you play in your life, especially EPIC ones, so it's up to you to make each one awesome.  When you die, hopefully years from now, do you really want to look back and say "wow, I wasted my time with a lot of jerks, and I didn't try as hard as I could have"?  

6)  If the group encounters a room or a puzzle (which I enjoy) try to figure it out.  I sometimes hide easter eggs around my dungeons.  Don't overturn every stone, but if you're going up against (say) a giant swarm at low levels, I'm the kind of DM who'll hide area-effect spell-ability-items and swarm-damaging-swords in other rooms before you get there.  I don't know how this will play out at epic levels, and as of this writing I haven't done the module yet.  
     EDIT:  keep in mind that, if I put them in there, it's up to you to find them.  If they're really important, they'll be in somewhat obvious locations, but I'll let you wander off without them until you get to the BBEG.  You're 20th level, no hand-holding.  I'm not a killer DM, though, so don't let that scare you off.

7)  As Epic-level characters, I'll be designing problems you need to overcome.  This may involve a quest, or designing a series of items that can, say, get you to the bottom of the ocean to find a spell component.  I won't be worrying too-too much about your character sheets, because I assume you're 20th level: you're the big boys, you need to be able to take care of yourselves.





[sblock=previous first post]...or something high level.


EDIT:   THE VOTE

Arena:  0
Dungeon: 0
Scenario:  1  (Shayuri)



Okay, here goes:  I want to do a crash course in High Level PF play.  I learned a lot running and FINISHING! a pathfinder game (Follow Me Into Shadows) by pbp here on the boards.

Now I'd like to try my hand at a higher level of play.  This won't be a long running game, and I haven't figured out what I want to do (ie: an arena or a quick dungeon or a full scenario where the party uses their abilities on the fly).

1)  Arena:  everyone is fighting each other, but also the monsters and traps surrounding the group in a supernatural arena.  This would be for the mantle of the Starstone (I think it's called: go in, come out a deity if at all).
     If we do this, I'll just count the rounds as DM.  Either I run the arena and only control NPCs and Monsters; or I make up a PC and we all beat each other over the head until someone "wins".


2)  Dungeon:  likewise Epic, possibly lower than 20th (ie: I grab a Goodman Games module and try to kill you all).  I'll come up with some horrific challenges and try to smite you all down.  This would mean the PCs are a team, and the goal is to defeat the dungeon.

3)  Scenario:  longer than a dungeon, and covering the whole world plus the planes.  There'll be a task, you'll have to problem solve your way out of it.  This is a traditional adventure, and we'll be doing this like you're actual heroes who saved the world, built a castle, and are now trying to ...save the world again.  Like a real D&D campaign.


Regardless: I will be brutally honest in that I intend to come up with some horrific monster combos that are challenging for your party to beat.  This is fair, as you're Epic level.  
Some challenges will be things that I design even before you pitch your character concepts at me, that frankly you should have thought about.
Some I will custom tailor for the party; not to make it hard (I'm not a jerk) but so your particular strengths shine for the whole world to see.

In general, the world will assume that it's out of the Bestiary 1.  All NPCs are max level 6, unless they're exceptional/special.  I'll use the Gamemastery Guide, for example, if you go to Absalom and try to hire a Pirate Captain or use a Seer.  They will have special answers and info, but in general that's the way it is.  There will be other powerful adventurers and NPCs (ie: the master assassins, the archmages (and there will be lots of those, I assume) of 20th level or so.  They just won't be the default (this being Pathfinder, not 4e).

This means monsters like Dragons truly are powerful for everyone other than your group.  It also means that, if you don't take out the dragons attacking the village, the village auto-dies.  

Likewise, most places in Golarion won't have high level magic items; you could go to the archmages or the Planes, or the Drow (and you can) but you'd have to deal with them and the goods they have for sale.

In an arena or a dungeon, this may not be an issue.


Creation Rules:  GP budget and point buy for stats.  I'll decide when I get some interest.  

Books: basically Pathfinder SRD, others upon request and if I have them (I will research them, btw).


So what is your option:  Arena, Dungeon or Scenario?[/sblock]


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## Shayuri (Nov 22, 2010)

Scenario sounds the most interesting. Arenas are little more than tactical exercises...amusing, but of little consequence. Dungeons can be good, but they tend to be very limited in scope, and in diversity of encounter. 

Part of the fun of high level is that they can go anywhere, at any time. A scenario emphasizes that.

Given that starting at level 20 is the only realistic way that a PBP player will ever SEE level 20, I'd love to play this, if only because it will be fun trying out those high level abilities that normally we only gaze at wistfully.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 22, 2010)

Fair enough.  Though there are Convention demos (though usually not 20th level).

And I don't know how long this'll be.  I failed horribly on one high level arena once, but that's because I didn't know how the math really worked... and I allowed trained power gamers to make gestalt characters.   Yeah, not fun to DM.

it's been years, however, and the home game is going great.  Therefore, this is my vengeance upon high level play.


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## GandalfMithrandir (Nov 22, 2010)

must... not... actually seeing you are running a follow up to your other game (which was lots of fun) I should not play in this one, given that level 20 people take a lot of time to run and I ma making one right now.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 22, 2010)

meh, do whatever.  Do both.  I don't mind, just keep posting!

And if you want to do the other one also, finish up that 7th level equipment list, and pick a wish.


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## kinem (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm interested. I agree that the scenario idea sounds more interesting.

Would the APG be allowed? It's OGC, online at Pathfinder_OGC .
I'm thinking alchemist if so.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 23, 2010)

Definitely interested and would also favor a Scenario.  I'm really keen to see high level Pathfinder play, I've run and played in epic games in 3.5 and look forward to seeing whether Paizo's rebalancing actually stacks up at such a high level - I'm expecting it to be better than 3.5, but far from perfect.

If you do allow the APG I would love to run a Summoner, I've been dying to use some of the higher level abilities and a 20th level eidolon has to be fun on a bun.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 23, 2010)

No character concepts yet!   Arrgh!  

I don't mind the APG, though I'm not a fan of some of the classes, Alchemist being one of them; it's just... silly.  I get the buffs, but conceptually it bugs me.

Summoners:  I like them, but they need to give up their actions to have their Eidolon act.  Otherwise it's a lot of extra actions every round.  IMHO, if I'd built them, that is.  Then again, summoned monsters are like that.  Still, a good idea might be to give up a move action or immediate actions, or something to designate the control.  I dunno.


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## Lughart (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm interested if you'll have me. Scenario sounds the most fun, with dungeon as a close second.

I'm not so keen on making a 20th level character if all it's going to do is fight in a pit, so I'm not sure I'm in if you go with the arena idea. Otherwise it sounds like a hoot.


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## kinem (Nov 23, 2010)

I agree that the alchemist seems a bit silly, but that's partly due to the 'gleeful maniac' flavor text it's saddled with. I think I could pull it off as a serious character. Just thought it'd be interesting, but I could certainly do something else. Maybe oracle or rogue ...


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## fireinthedust (Nov 23, 2010)

Arena:  Actually, it wouldn't be a pit.  Heck no!   If we're going Epic Arena, I'd be doing it on an extraplanar moon, possibly in the ruins of a massive city built by the Old Ones.  There would be floating menhirs, a giant planet on the horizon, and a massive red sun burning in a purple sky...   Not an epic hole in the ground!

Alchemist:  well, I suppose so.  I admit, I'm a big fan of old school Sword & Sorcery stories, so the Alchemist just seems weird (ie: always has chemicals he can just whip together into a substance as a standard action?  And that only work on him?!).  I'm only just warming to the concept of the Inquisitor, and I'll need to review for that one.

   The Witch is something I'm shocked no one wants to touch with a 10ft pole.  Is it a flavour thing?


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## Lughart (Nov 23, 2010)

Ok, kudos, you got me psyched about the arena now.

And about the witch, I for one just prefers building cool things with the core classes. I have nothing against people using other stuff, and do try the APG classes from time to time, but I can usually get my character concept working fine without using them. Instead of the witch, for example, I'd just make a wizard specializing in enchantments and necromancies. Not the exact same thing, but similar enough that I don't care.


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## Shayuri (Nov 23, 2010)

I have an eye on witch. That and Oracle. 

Depending on if we need more arcane, or divine.


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## jackslate45 (Nov 23, 2010)

A witch also needs to be fighting things that can be affected by mind-effects.  Some of her better hexes require this.

I would play the witch though.  A very old elf who has seen many things.  Or the Druid I am playing in my Rise of Runelords (Pathfinder) game.  He would be famous because he defeat the Runelord.

Edit: 1 minute to slow lol.  I would vote for the Scenario


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## Lughart (Nov 23, 2010)

I think I just landed on a rogue, but I could be perusaded to choose something more combaty if it's needed.


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## Shayuri (Nov 23, 2010)

Heh! I was seriously considering a rogue/shadowdancer. 

And jackslate, if you want a witch, that's cool! There's plenty of great options for me. I don't have my heart set on it at all.


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## kinem (Nov 23, 2010)

The alchemist's power comes from his own magic, not from the chemicals. It's like a sorcerer but with chemicals as material components.

The witch seems cool but I've never been a fan of familiars. The method of learning spells by feeding scrolls to the familiar seems much more 'silly' to me than the alchemist.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 24, 2010)

Arena:  See?  I do the concept, it gets awesome.  Just to challenge myself, I'm adding option 4: Pride and Prejudice.  ...not really.

Okay, if we're going to do the Scenario it will be assuming you've overcome some major threats.  Maybe each of you is the sole survivor.  I don't want to say a particular AP, as excepting RotRL I've never gotten into them and don't know the exact ends (no spoilers pls)

Maybe make up your own (brief) histories and the major threat(s) you campaigned against.  Feel free to use non-PF adventures translated into Golarion: like Savage Tide or Temple of Elemental Evil... okay, it's a stretch, but you get what I mean.


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## Lughart (Nov 24, 2010)

Since it seems a few people wants to play rogues, I might switch to fighter. I looked over the high level abilities and feats, and a 20th level figher is a lot more deadly than I thought. It seems if I use a falchion I can get a critical of 15-20/x3 that confirms automatically. And I can wear full plate practically without encumberance. And deal con bleed. And ignore the attack penalties from power attack. Maybe old news to you guys, but the only games I've played past level 10 were 3.5.

Anyhow, I'll go fighter if someone else wants to take the rogue. I have some ideas for both classes.


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## jackslate45 (Nov 24, 2010)

I decided on my druid from RotRL.  I would be interested in seeing him at 20, and how formidable he can be.  

Weather Domain Druid, who with a bunch of his friends saved the town and area of Sandpoint (assumption.  Only level 4 right now lol). Decided to travel around and see the world before creating his own village


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## fireinthedust (Nov 26, 2010)

I suppose we should talk about rules options.

I think starting with point buy would be good.  25 PB is good to start, then add racial, then additional points as you level.


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## Shayuri (Nov 26, 2010)

Lets also get some kind of summary about who's proposing what, to help those of us who haven't settled on a final concept pick something that won't be redundant.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 26, 2010)

I think I'll go Wizard then, always my first love and I'm curious to see how the PF changes effect them at high levels.


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## Lughart (Nov 26, 2010)

Fighter then.


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## jackslate45 (Nov 26, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> I suppose we should talk about rules options.
> 
> I think starting with point buy would be good.  25 PB is good to start, then add racial, then additional points as you level.




Few quick questions:

Traits allowed?

HP per level: Roll?  Max?  Max -2?

Item creation feats allowed?


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## fireinthedust (Nov 26, 2010)

Traits:  I don't have the book for that one, so not yet.  Suggested ones you'd like for future (ie: that work with a build) I don't mind.

HP:  Um, I tend to go Max, then make up for it with powerful monsters.  

Item creation:  sure.  Why not?


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## fireinthedust (Nov 26, 2010)

Wizard &  Fighter:   Ooooo, do I hear a Classic party forming?!   Please someone go Cleric and Rogue (thief)!!!   Anyone else would be great after that (a Cavalier, a Barbarian, a Bard, and maybe even an Assassin...).   

I'm on a classic Sword & Sorcery kick right now, so concepts including barbarians, crumbling civilizations falling into savagery, and foul sorcery (read: wizardry) are welcome here.  Elric, Conan, and when I'm done those I'm moving onto Lankhmar!

I'm going to EDIT the first post, to let you know my requirements for posting and playing in a game I run.   Please re-read it, so you know what I'm looking for.


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## Shayuri (Nov 27, 2010)

Hee hee

Well, I'm pondering a Rogue/Shadowdancer, or an Oracle right now.

So that's rogue, or cleric. 

They both look like a lot of fun...

Out of curiosity, are the aasimar and tiefling races available? And if so, are they still level-adjusted? The Bestiary entry doesn't mention it, but I don't want to assume...


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 27, 2010)

Yes how will item creation feats be treated?  Probably be simpler to just say you must pay full value for everything imo.  What about custom items following the rules?  By which I mostly mean paying the appropriate amount to combine existing items rather than creating new ones.

I've got my elven wizard pretty much plotted out, just need to finalize spell list and items.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 27, 2010)

LA makes sense.  Basically: free magical resistances = at least a level.  

So I'm not saying no, to them or, really, to other races.  Keep in mind that they won't have the same number of class levels as other characters.  Also, I'm not sure if being a monster race is a good idea or not.

Major powers like SR I likely won't allow, but I don't know how it plays in-game.  We'll see!


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## fireinthedust (Nov 27, 2010)

Item Creation:  standard.  If you're earning the gold for this stuff, spend it how you want.  In fact, I would recommend having them so you can make the items you might well need to complete/survive 20th level scenarios.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm more thinking of pregame crafting, if we craft pregame that will effectively double my wealth per level - which is perhaps a bit much.  880,000gp is already a heck of a lot of gp, let alone 1760,000.  

Perhaps a limit on the time that could be spent crafting?  100 days of crafting for example would allow you to craft 100,000gps worth of items effectively increasing wealth to 980,000gp for a feat - or feats.  Maybe even a certain amount of days per crafting feat?  Though I'd be fine with not being able to pregame craft.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 27, 2010)

I see.  Good point!   

Just buy equipment normally.  After game start you can craft whatever you want as standard.  

btw:  I'm fully supportive if people do want original items, if they're cool.

Also:  I would like it if we could at least pretend that magical items are unique things.  Ie: you might find a +4 sword, but it's a major magical item in the setting.  At the very least, other people will think it's cool.

And you can't just go around buying magical items.  Scrolls, sure.  Wands, maybe.  But other items are special things that NPCs will think of as quasi-miraculous.  

Any thoughts on if you'd want to do Golarion, or try something different?

I'm tempted to make a setting on different planets in a fantasy solar system.  You can travel between worlds by spells (plane shift = planet shift) or by riding magical beasts (ie: a powerful enough dragon).


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 27, 2010)

Great, works for me.  As for setting I really don't know Golorion well enough to have a marked preference for it, so I'd say go with whatever you are most comfortable with.  I'm planning to make my Arcane Bonded Object Intelligent btw just thought I'd check if that's cool - not sure why it would not be, but you never know, etc.


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## Lughart (Nov 27, 2010)

Would you approve the leadership feat? I was envisioning my fighter as a military commander who had just come out of winning a battle, but losing every last soldier except his trusted squire (the cohort). In the course of the game I would work on rebuilding my organization, suiting it to meet the needs of the party.

EDIT: On second thought, a cohort might crave too much micromanaging for a PbP game.


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## Lughart (Nov 27, 2010)

Another thought. I don't know how long you want this to run, but do you plan for us to ever level up? If so, what happens? The 3.5 epic rules can't exactly be used as written.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 27, 2010)

Leadership:  Depending on the cohort, I don't yet have a problem.  I'll let you know if there ever is an issue in terms of power level, and right away I don't want them to do more than support a need the party has (ie: a healbot would be fine but a do-everything wizard wouldn't be; though a sage who makes low-level scrolls or only knowledge checks isn't a bad idea; a monster is likely fine, depending on what it is).


Leveling:  I don't know.  If the group gels together and we have fun, I may do one of two things:  1)  go E6 and have everyone add a feat every 5000xp.   or 2) try out one of the lesser-known level up options from the FRCS, or something similar.  or (three things) 3) try letting people just add levels and go ridiculous.

I'm leaning towards E20 (feats), but I don't know.  4) is quit the game and start again with lower level characters.  The scenario might finish off the setting, I don't know.  


Creating an army:  I kind of like this idea.  I also have the 3e Stronghold builder's guidebook, and I've always wanted to try that out.  Maybe this will be a good time for that.  

Let's start off slowly, though.  We can do those things later.

Question: do you folks want to start off as a group?  Do you have one headquarters you work from, or individual keeps, towers and fortresses?


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## Padreigh (Nov 27, 2010)

Level 20 ... I really should check this section of the forum more often. 

If there is a spot left, I'd like to try a Level 20 Paladin (or maybe a cleric, if that would be a better choice for the group).


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## Shayuri (Nov 27, 2010)

I think it's very reasonable to assume we at least know of each other...it's likely that there aren't very many individuals of our status (level 20) in the setting. Some of us may have worked together in the past...some of us may even have been adventuring buddies for an extended stretch before. We can work that out between ourselves.

I've got the Stronghold Builder's Guide too...it's a lot of fun if you're a bit of a gearhead like me.


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## fireinthedust (Nov 27, 2010)

Padreigh said:


> Level 20 ... I really should check this section of the forum more often.
> 
> If there is a spot left, I'd like to try a Level 20 Paladin (or maybe a cleric, if that would be a better choice for the group).





The more the merrier.  Either concept works fine for me.  9th level spells are handy things, especially things like Ressurect.  I'm not saying you have to do them, but someone you have access to should.  I'd suggest at least having a henchman who can cast raise dead, or several scrolls of similar spells handy.


Knowledge of each other:  Yeah, there are very few other 20th level creatures in the setting, let alone good-aligned adventurers.  You're very much on your own for this one.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 27, 2010)

If we do E20 an gain a feat every 5000xp we are going to gain about twenty feats per encounter...  I'd suggest a feat every 1 million experience points would be more appropriate assuming a fast progression.  When you consider it takes 700,000xp to advance from 19th to 20th.

And my character's crunch is done!  I was agonizing over spells until I just decided to work out the price of every wizard spell in the Core Rulebook and the APG - a smidge over 80,000gp by my calculations.  I'll have the fluff done shortly...

Thadeius Varrarann


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## jackslate45 (Nov 27, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Wizard &  Fighter:   Ooooo, do I hear a Classic party forming?!   Please someone go Cleric and Rogue (thief)!!!   Anyone else would be great after that (a Cavalier, a Barbarian, a Bard, and maybe even an Assassin...).




Farewell Druid, Hello Cleric!


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## Shayuri (Nov 27, 2010)

Rogue it is!


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 27, 2010)

Iconic party would be extra awesome!  I'm all for us knowing one another lets us skip intros, etc.  

If anyone has spare cash might I suggest diamonds btw, a component for many of the most essential spells.  And heck if you bring 125,000gps worth I can cast five wishes in a row for you to give you a +5 inherent bonus to an ability score, preferably pregame as I'll need to blow all of my 9th level slots to do so.  Could do it for a lesser amount, but you can't go from +1 to +5 later, etc., it has to be done in one go.


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## Scott DeWar (Nov 27, 2010)

I might try to throw my hat in the works here. perhaps a wizard 9/fighter 1/eldrich knight 10

I also want to mention that what Aldern Foxglove makes a good point:



Aldern Foxglove said:


> If we do E20 an gain a feat every 5000xp we are going to gain about twenty feats per encounter...  I'd suggest a feat every 1 million experience points would be more appropriate assuming a fast progression.  When you consider it takes 700,000xp to advance from 19th to 20th.




al though i might suggest every 250,000 xp as that is close to the 5000 xp to 21 000 xp ratio of e6


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## fireinthedust (Nov 28, 2010)

Hadn't thought of that.  Okay, let's see how fast we get to 1 million xp; if it's too slow we'll go with less (maybe 500000 or 250k)


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 28, 2010)

Well this is PBP so 1 million will likely take an age, lol.  If we look at a 4 man party we can see that a CR 20 will give 76,800xp to each character, a CR 21 102,400, CR 22 153,600.  So we are probably looking at roughly 100,000xp for an "average" encounter, so 1 million will give us a new feat roughly every 10 encounters, half a million every five, etc.  To my mind a quarter million is too low, but then epic encounters in my experience are either over exceedingly quickly or take ages so playing it by ear is probably best.

I doubt any of us will be hurting for feats, Thadeius has 16, a human fighter would have 22, so I doubt it will be a big issue.


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## HolyMan (Nov 28, 2010)

Just coming by to lurk and add to the conversation where I can. 

HM


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## Scott DeWar (Nov 28, 2010)

AAAAAHHH! a forest lurker! kill it!


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## HolyMan (Nov 28, 2010)

Somebody had to take your job since you are playing. 

HM


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 28, 2010)

Not tempted to knock something up HM?  20 shiny levels, mmmmm.  880,000 shiny gold pieces, ahhhhh.  Minimum of ten shiny feats, ooooh!

I have to say that building a 20th level Wizard has renewed my faith in the PF system.  Sticking with a base class is certainly more viable, and the Arcane Schools offer a lot of interesting options over the levels.  

I would say Thadeius is notably less powerful than a 3.5 equivalent, he has more hp, and is considerably simpler - which is to say algebra is simple compared to string theory.  A great deal of this is down to 3.5 being more bloated than PF, but the fact that many of the spells have been toned down is also an important factor.


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## HolyMan (Nov 28, 2010)

I can't lurk if you all keep asking me questions LOL. No I think you have a good group and the core classes takin' maybe fitd will let me co Dm a big monster that would be fun. 

Group So Far: 
Fighter - Lughart
Cleric - jackslat45
Rogue - Shayuri
Wizard - Aldern Foxglove

Possible add-ons:
Paladin - Padreigh
??? - Scott Dewar

HM


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## jackslate45 (Nov 28, 2010)

Aldern Foxglove said:


> Well this is PBP so 1 million will likely take an age, lol.  If we look at a 4 man party we can see that a CR 20 will give 76,800xp to each character, a CR 21 102,400, CR 22 153,600.  So we are probably looking at roughly 100,000xp for an "average" encounter, so 1 million will give us a new feat roughly every 10 encounters, half a million every five, etc.  To my mind a quarter million is too low, but then epic encounters in my experience are either over exceedingly quickly or take ages so playing it by ear is probably best.
> 
> I doubt any of us will be hurting for feats, Thadeius has 16, a human fighter would have 22, so I doubt it will be a big issue.




some classeswill only have 10.  Clerics dont get extra feats normally, so Human and having that extra 1 feat matters sometimes.


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## Scott DeWar (Nov 28, 2010)

maybe I should play a ranger. that would be cool. level 20, archery based. we have a pali and a fighter, rogue, cleric and wizard. we could use some archery support.

Hedron longarrow NG Human Ranger 20


```
[b]STR[/B] 19 +4   [B]class:[/B] Ranger   [B]Level:[/B] 20   [B]EXP:[/B]
[B]DEX[/B] 25 +7   [B]HD:[/B] 20 d 10 + 80   [B]HP:[/B] 280/280
[B]CON[/B] 20 +5   [B]DR:[/B]
[B]INT[/B] 20 +5   BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5   CMB:+24/+19/+14/+9   CMD 31
[B]WIS[/B] 22 +6   initiative: +7
[B]CHA[/B] 18 +4 

human adjustment +2 to dex
level adjustments:
4: +1 Dex  8: +1 Wis  12: +1 Dex  16: +1 Wis  20: +1 Dex
belt or perfection +6 to str, dex, con
headband +6 to int, wis and cha

[B][U]Saves: base abil misc total[/U][/B]
[B]Fort[/B]    +12  +5   +5  +22
[B]Ref[/B]     +12  +7   +5  +24
[B]Will[/B]     +6  +6   +5  +17

Combat:
weapon    attack        damage      crit  range  type notes
Bow, long comp,[size=1]mighty +4, +5 enc, distance, flaming burst, bane: human(giant)[/size]*
       +32/+27/+22/+17  1d8+9     19-20/X3 220 ft P   -1/220ft bynd 1st 220
       +32              4d8+9     19-20/X3 220 ft P (Gtr vital strike)
*      +34/+29/+24/+19  1d8+9+2d6 19-20/X3 220 ft P (with giant bane)
*      +34              4d8+9+2d6 19-20/X3 220 ft P [size=1](w/ giant bane/Gtr vital strike)[/size]
                           +1d6 flaming (from flaming burst)
                          +2d10 dam on crit   (flaming burst)   
       +1 att           +1 dam    (Feat point blank shot)
longsword, +3 encht
       +27/+22/+17/+12  1d8+7     19-20/x2 --- S
       +27              4d8+7     19-20/x2 --- S (gtr vital strike)
dagger,adamentine +1 (see also Feats: point blank shot and far shot)
       +25/+20/+15/+10  1d4+5     19-20/x2 10 ft P/S
       +25              4d4+5    19-20/x2 10 ft P/S (gtr vital strike)
mace, hvy +2, disrup 
       +26/+21/+16/+11  
   Undead: dc 14 fort save or destroyed
       +26            (gtr vital strike)
arrow- adamentine X 20              
     00000 00000 00000 (00000)
Arrow- Bane: undead, +1 ench X 50   (vs undead: +2 att, +2d6 dam)     
     00000 000000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 (00000 00000)
Arrow-cold iron X 20                    
     00000 00000 00000 (00000)
Arrows, norm X 40
     (00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000)
Ammo: (# is in efficient quiver) otherwise in haversack

                         max           spell
Armr              bonus  dex/dex  ACP  fail  magic wt move type
mith. breastplate  +6    +5/+5     -2  15%    +9   15  20  lite

A/C/TOUCH/FF
30 / 24/  25

Favored Enemy:
:1: humanoid: goblinoid
:2: undead
:3: humanoid: giant
:4: outsider: evil
:5: Monstrous humanoid

Favored Terrain:
:1: forest
:2: cold
:3: mountains
:4: planes-lower

Class Features:
Tracking
Wild Empathy
Combat Style: Archery-Far shot
Endurance
Hunter's Bond: Bound to allies
Archery style feat: Rapid shot
Woodland stride
Swift Tracker
Evasion
Archery style Feat: improved precise shot
Quarry
Camouflage
Archery style Feat: pinpoint tarting
Improved Evasion
Hide in plain sight
Archery style Feat: Shot on the run
Improved Quarry
Master Hunter

Feats:
Race: point blank shot (+1 att, +1 dam within 30 fft rabge)
lev 1 precise shot (shoot into melee with no penaty)
lev 3 deadly aim (-5 att gives +10 damage)
lev 5 Master craftsman
lev 7 Craft Magic arms/armor
lev 9 Improved critical (X 2 crit threat range)
lev 11 Critical focus (+4 bonus on attack rolls made to confirm
                            critical hits)
lev 13 vital strike 
[sblock=feat description]
Vital Strike (Combat)

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one
attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional
damage. Roll the damage dice for the attack twice and add
the results together, but do not multiply damage bonuses
from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), or
precision-based damage (such as sneak attack). This bonus
damage is not multiplied on a critical hit (although other
damage bonuses are multiplied normally).[/sblock]
lev 15 improved vital strike
lev 17  Self-Sufficient +4 to heal and survival
[sblock=feat description]Benefit: As a standard action, make a single ranged attack.
The target does not gain any armor, natural armor, or shield
bonuses to its Armor Class. You do not gain the benefit of
this feat if you move this round.[/sblock]
lev 19 Greater vital strike

Skills: 6 (base) +5 (int) +1 (race) +1 (fav class) / level X 20 levels = 280

[B]skill                     ranks  c/s  abil  misc  total  notes[/B]
Acrobatics (dex)           + 1   --    +6    +7    +14 (boots)
Climb (Str)                +20   +3    +3    +6    +32 (gloves)
Craft
  (Bowyer/fletcher) (Int)  +20   +3    +5    +2    +30 (FEAT, CSTR LVL = 20)
Handle Animal (Cha)        +10   +3    +4    ---   +17
Heal (Wis)                 +20   +3    +6    +4    +33 (FEAT)
Knowledge
  (dungeoneering) (Int)    +20   +3    +5    ---   +28
  (geography) (Int)        +20   +3    +5    ---   +28
  (nature) (Int)           +20   +3    +5    ---   +28
  (arcane) (int)           ---   --    +5    +20   +25 (headband)
  (Planes) (int)           ---   --    +5    +20   +25 (headband)
Perception (Wis)           +20   +3    +6    ---   +29
Profession (hunter) (Wis)  +15   +3    +6    ---   +24
Ride (Dex)                 +14   +3    +5    ---   +22
Spellcraft (Int)           +15   +3    +5    ---   +23
Stealth (Dex)              +20   +3    +7    +10   +40 (ring)
Survival (Wis)             +20   +3    +6    +4    +33 (FEAT) (+10 for tracking)
Swim (Str)                 +15   +3    +4    +5    +27 (gloves)

Items:
Mithral breastplate, glamored
   +4 ench, ghost touch,           55 900.0 gp
Bow, long comp,mighty +4
   bane: human.: giant, +5 enc
   distance, flaming, burst       162 800.0 gp
arrow- adamentine X 20              1 200.0 gp
Arrow- Bane: undead, +1 ench X 50   8 000.0 gp      
Arrow-cold iron X 20                    1.5 gp
long sword, +3                     18 000.0 gp
dagger,adamentine +1                5 002.0 gp
mace, hvy +2, disrup               32 312.0 gp
Handy haversack                     2 000.0 gp
efficient quiver                    1 800.0 gp
belt of physical perfection: +6   144 000.0 gp
Boat, Folding                       7 200.0 gp
boots stride/spring                 5 500.0 gp
Cloak of Resistance +5             25 000.0 gp
decanter of endless water           4 500.0 gp
gloves of swimming and climbing     6 250.0 gp
goggles of night                   12 000.0 gp
headband of Mental Superiority +6 144 000.0 gp skills: know planes & arcane
necklace adaptation                 9 000.0 gp
Sustaining Spoon                    5 400.0 gp
Amulet of natural armor +5         50 000.0 gp                                                 
Ring of freedom of movement        40 000.0 gp
Ring of Chameleon Power            12 700.0 gp
potion haste 00000 00000            7 500.0 gp
potion cure serious 000000 00000    7 500.0 gp 3d8+5
potion rem disease 000              2 250.0 gp
=============================================
                                  709 863.5 gp

Spells/day: :1:   :2:   :3:   :4:
Base        4   4   3   3
[u]Bonus       2   1   1   1  [/u]
total       6   5   4   4    

spell preped:

level 1
Detect Snares and Pit; Longstrider; Resist Energy; Resist Energy

level 2
cure lite; cure lite; wind wall; prot fm energy; prot fm energy

level 3
tree shape; water walk; cure mid.; plant growth

level 4
Commune with Nature; Cure Serious Wounds; Tree Stride; Tree Stride
```

[sblock=ranger spells]


1st-Level Ranger Spells

Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level.
Animal Messenger: Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Calm Animals: Calms 2d4 + level HD of animals.
Charm Animal: Makes one animal your friend.
Delay Poison: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Detect Animals or Plants: Detects kinds of animals or plants.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or object.
Detect Snares and Pits: Reveals natural or primitive traps.
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold regions.
Entangle: Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft. radius.
Hide from Animals: Animals can't perceive one subject/level.
Jump: Subject gets bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Longstrider: Your base speed increases by 10 ft.
Magic Fang: One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1 on attack and damage rolls.
Pass without Trace: One subject/level leaves no tracks.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals.
Summon Nature's Ally I: Summons creature to fight for you.

2nd-Level Ranger Spells

Barkskin: Grants +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor.
Bear's Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Cat's Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage + 1/level (max +5).
Hold Animal: Paralyzes one animal for 1 round/level.
Owl's Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Protection from Energy: Absorbs 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Snare: Creates a magic booby trap.
Speak with Plants: You can talk to plants and plant creatures.
Spike Growth: Creatures in area take 1d4 damage, may be slowed.
Summon Nature's Ally II: Summons creature to fight for you.
Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.

3rd-Level Ranger Spells

Command Plants: Sway the actions of plant creatures.
Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max. +10).
Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness.
Diminish Plants: Reduces size or blights growth of normal plants.
Magic Fang, Greater: One natural weapon gets + 1/four levels (max. +5).
Neutralize Poison: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Plant Growth: Grows vegetation, improves crops.
Reduce Animal: Shrinks one willing animal.
Remove Disease: Cures all diseases affecting subject.
Repel Vermin: Insects, spiders, and other vermin stay 10 ft. away.
Summon Nature's Ally III: Summons creature to fight for you.
Tree Shape: You look exactly like a tree for 1 hour/level.
Water Walk: Subject treads on water as if solid.

4th-Level Ranger Spells

Animal Growth: One animal doubles in size.
Commune with Nature: Learn about terrain for 1 mile/level.
Cure Serious Wounds: Cures 3d8 damage + 1/level (max +15).
Freedom of Movement: Subject moves normally despite impediments to movement.
Non-detection M: Hides subject from divination, scrying.
Summon Nature's Ally IV: Summons creature to fight for you.
Tree Stride: Step from one tree to another far away.

[/sblock]

special info:
[sblock=favored enemy]a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense
Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected
type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and
damage rolls against them. A ranger may make Knowledge
skill check[/sblock]
[sblock=favored terrain]At 3rd level, a ranger may select a
type of terrain from the Favored Terrains table. The ranger
gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks and Knowledge
(geography), Perception, Stealth, and Survival skill checks
when he is in this terrain. A ranger traveling through his
favored terrain normally leaves no trail and cannot be tracked
(though he may leave a trail if he so chooses).[/sblock]

[sblock=stat block]

Hedron Treefriend NG Human Ranger 20  hp: 280 / 280

Senses:
60 ft dark vision; perception + 29; stealth +40; survival +33; tracking +43

```
Saves:
Fort    +22
Ref     +24
Will     +17

A/C/TOUCH/FF
30 / 24/  25

Combat: primary weapon
weapon  attack        damage      crit  range  type notes
Bow, long comp,[size=1]mighty +4, +5 enc, distance, flaming burst, bane: human(giant)[/size]*
     +32/+27/+22/+17  1d8+9     19-20/X3 220 ft P   -1/220ft bynd 1st 220
     +32              4d8+9     19-20/X3 220 ft P (Gtr vital strike)
*    +34/+29/+24/+19  1d8+9+2d6 19-20/X3 220 ft P (with giant bane)
*    +34              4d8+9+2d6 19-20/X3 220 ft P [size=1](w/ giant bane/Gtr vital strike)[/size]
                          +2d10 dam on crit   (flaming burst)   
     +1 att           +1 dam    (Feat point blank shot)
```
Favored Enemy:
 humanoid: goblinoid +10
 undead +8
 humanoid: giant +6
 outsider: evil +4
 Monstrous humanoid +2

Favored Terrain:
 forest +8
 cold +6
 mountains +4
 planes-lower +2

[/sblock]

[sblock=spells prepared]
spell preped:

level 1
Detect Snares and Pit; Longstrider; Resist Energy; Resist Energy

level 2
cure lite; cure lite; wind wall; prot fm energy; prot fm energy

level 3
tree shape; water walk; cure mid.; plant growth

level 4
Commune with Nature; Cure Serious Wounds; Tree Stride; Tree Stride

[/sblock]


----------



## Lughart (Nov 28, 2010)

[sblock=Gerhard Vangerdahast]




Human lvl 20 fighter, lawful neutral

Str: 28 (16 +2 race +4 lvl +6 magic, 10 pts.)
Dex: 22 (15 +1 lvl +6 magic, 7 pts)
Con: 20 (14 +6 magic, 5 pts)
Int: 12 (2 pts)
Wis: 10 (0 pts)
Cha: 11 (1 pts)

Feats
Human: power attack
Lvl 1: weapon focus (greatsword)
Ftr 1: cleave 
Ftr 2: intimidating prowess
Lvl 3: dazzling display
Ftr 4: weapon specialization (greatsword)
Lvl 5: master craftsman 
Ftr 6: shatter defences
Lvl 7: craft magic arms & armor
Ftr 8: greater weapon focus (greatsword)
Lvl 9: lunge
Ftr 10: great cleave
Lvl 11: improved critical (greatsword)
Ftr 12: greater weapon specialization (greatsword)
Lvl 13: deadly stroke
Ftr 14: furious focus
Lvl 15: leadership
Ftr 16: penetrating strike
Lvl 17: improved initiative
Ftr 18: greater penetrating strike
Lvl 19: skill focus (craft weaponsmithing)
Ftr 20: dreadful carnage


```
Skill                   Bonus  Ranks   CS    Mod   Misc
craft (weaponsmithing)  +34    20      3     1     8 (feats), 2 (gear)
intimidate              +32    20      3     0     9 (STR)
know (engineering)      +14    10      3     1     0
ride                    +19    10      3     6     0
survival                +13    10      3     0     0
swim                    +22    10      3     9     0
climb                   +22    10      3     9     0
```
Gear
Bleeding thunder; +5 shock, thundering, viscious, wounding greatsword
Phantoms bane; +5 ghost touch, undeadbane greatsword
+4 returning spear
Spiders silk; +5 ghost touch mithral full plate armor
Masterwork blacksmiths tools
Belt of physical perfection +6
Amulet of natural armor +5
Cloak of resistance +5
Ring of protection +5
Ring of regeneration
5x potion of cure serious wounds
Boots of speed

85 246gp
[/sblock]


----------



## fireinthedust (Nov 28, 2010)

HM:  heh, yeah, I could see that.  Once we get these PCs figured out, then I'll put the Rogues Gallery up.  Then you and I can sit down and think of some mean things to do to our little band ..... >

What were the major issues with Wizard in 3.5, spellwise?  I'm guessing Shapechange was an issue?


----------



## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 28, 2010)

Issues with the 3.5 wizard, well shapechange was one, but hardly a major one given its high level.  Just so many spells that could be used for ultimate cosmic power, the polymorph line was exceptionally broken, and there were so many spells that were exploitable, partially this was due to the sheer volume of spells available.  PF has also been wiser with Metamagic feats toning some down and getting rid of others.  Combine that with prestiege classes, and the massive selection of magic items and it was possible to make a veritable god.


----------



## WarlockLord (Nov 28, 2010)

Hey, can I jump in this?  I was thinking a drow necromancer, former Evil Overlord but his empire was toppled by one of the good PCs and he is now sworn to serve them for a year and a day in exchange for his life.  

Stats will be forthcoming


----------



## GlassEye (Nov 28, 2010)

Wow, this looks incredibly cool (and difficult to run).  It also looks like you've got a full roster of characters.  Knowing FireintheDust it'll be an incredibly well-thought out adventure with lots of little twists to take everyone by surprise.  Makes my fingers itch to create something...


----------



## WarlockLord (Nov 29, 2010)

Here are the stats.

[sblock=Malacarus]
Lord Malacarus
Lawful Evil Male Drow Wizard(necromancer) 20  XP:2,400,000

Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 27 (33 with headband), Wis 10, Cha 16

InitiatiVe: +6  Hit Points 140 Speed 30 ft
AC: 21 (touch 17, ff 19) 
Spell Resistance: 26

Saves: Fort +12, Reflex +13, Will +17

BAB: +10/+5
Grapple +10

Skills: Concentration +24, Craft(sculptor) +15, Fly + 25, Knowledge (arcana) +33, Knowledge (religion) +33, Knowledge (Planes) +30, Knowledge (nature) +24, Knowledge (history) +31 (headband), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +31 (headband), 
Spellcraft +33, Tumble +22 (headband), Perception +2
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Command Undead (12/day, DC 25, Channel Resistance does not apply), Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Spell Focus (Illusion),
Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Channel, Extend Spell, Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (Illusion), Craft Wondrous Item, 
Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Improved Initiative

Special: Faerie Fire, Darkness, Dancing Lights 1/day, Light Blindness, Darkvision 120 feet, Poison Use, Grave Touch 12/day (10 rounds), Lifesight 40ft (20 rounds/day),
Power Over Undead, Arcane Bond: Malacarus' Staff

Spells Prepared (4/7/7/7/7/6/6/6/6/5, +1 slot per level for a necromancy spell, DC 21+level, CL 21)
Specialized in Necromancy, opposition schools evocation and abjuration
0-mage hand, prestidigitation, ghost sound, detect magic
1-ray of enfeeblement(2), mage armor*, charm person, silent image, unseen servant, shield(2),
2-blindness/deafness, mirror image(2), command undead (2), hideous laughter, detect thoughts(2), 
3-dispel magic, suggestion, fly, nondetection, ray of exhaustion, displacement(2),
4-enervation, greater invisibility(2), dimension door(2), scrying, phantasmal killer, animate dead,
5-magic jar, teleport, dominate person, persistent image, overland flight, telekinesis, contact other plane,
6-greater dispel magic, create undead, flesh to stone(2), true seeing, mass suggestion, quickened mirror image,
7-quickened displacement(2), project image, waves of exhaustion (2), reverse gravity, limited wish
8-horrid wilting, mind blank*, polymorph any object (2), discern location, summon monster VIII, quickened enervation,
9-gate, time stop, shapechange, dominate monster, weird,   

*already up


Spellbook: 
0-all
1-ray of enfeeblement, charm person, silent image, grease, mage armor, shield, unseen servant, cause fear,
2-hideous laughter, command undead, blindness/deafness, mirror image, detect thoughts*
3-dispel magic, vampiric touch, ray of exhaustion, suggestion, fly*, nondetection*, magic circle against evil*, displacement*, 
4-enervation, animate dead, phantasmal killer, greater invisibility, scrying*, dimension door*
5-magic jar, teleport, dominate person, waves of fatigue, persistent image*, overland flight*, telekinesis*, nightmare*, seeming*, contact other plane*,
6-greater dispel magic, create undead, symbol of fear, flesh to stone, contingency*, planar binding*, true seeing*, mass suggestion*, 
7-control undead, waves of exhaustion, reverse gravity, project image, limited wish*, greater teleport*, plane shift*
8-horrid wilting, mind blank, clone, symbol of death, polymorph any object*, discern location*, summon monster VIII*, greater planar binding*, 
9-gate, time stop, astral projection, energy drain, shapechange, dominate monster*, weird*, wish*

*: denotes purchased spell.  Purchased from other wizards for WBL purposes (per SRD chapter Magic), although it is more likely he coerced spells from enemies.  


Possessions: Headband of Vast Intelligence +6, orange prism ioun stone, tome of clear thought +5 (read at level 20), 1000 gp black onyx gems, 1000 gp diamond dust, 
magic jar focus, scrying focus, 2 true seeing ointments, 2 symbol of death components, spell component pouch, shapechange crown, 
blessed book (symbol of death cast on it, triggers when touched), cloak of resistance +5, scarab of protection (12 charges remain), ring of protection +5, 
ring of spell turning, handy haversack, greater rod of quicken, greater rod of empowerment, greater rod of maximize, sustaining spoon, contingency focus,  6300 gp

Staff of Malacarus: 10 charges, contains the following spells: greater teleport (1 charge), plane shift(1 charge), greater planar binding(1 charge), mass suggestion(1 charge).  
Custom crafted, widely recognized and feared.  Price: 63,000 (bought at full market price to represent crafting a while ago)

contingency: when attacked by a weapon or spell, cast greater invisibility
[/sblock]

Just made via Pathfinder SRD.  Anyone up for being the hero who defeated him and who he's stuck serving?


----------



## jackslate45 (Nov 29, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Wow, this looks incredibly cool (and difficult to run).  It also looks like you've got a full roster of characters.  Knowing FireintheDust it'll be an incredibly well-thought out adventure with lots of little twists to take everyone by surprise.  Makes my fingers itch to create something...



Do it.  YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO.


Cleric incoming.


----------



## kinem (Nov 29, 2010)

I'd better bow out of this (if indeed I was still considered 'in'); it looks like the game is certainly full enough and I'll be somewhat busy this month anyway.

fireinthedust, you are biting off quite a bit here; I hope you can chew it without too much trouble. Good luck.

GandalfMithrandir (or GlassEye), if you do start a high level PF game, I'd be interested ...


----------



## Scott DeWar (Nov 29, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Wow, this looks incredibly cool (and difficult to run).  It also looks like you've got a full roster of characters.  Knowing FireintheDust it'll be an incredibly well-thought out adventure with lots of little twists to take everyone by surprise.  Makes my fingers itch to create something...




Think of the one character build that you want so bad to play until level 20, then make it. You know you want to.

it will be so fun . . . 

It won't be all that hard . . . . 

so very easy . . .


----------



## jackslate45 (Nov 29, 2010)

[sblock=Lune Xanfire]
Human lvl 20 Cleric of Iomedae, Lawful Good

Str: 24 (16 + 6 magic, +2 Level 10 pts.)
Dex: 16 (10 + 6 magic)
Con: 20 (14 +6 magic, 5 pts)
Int: 10 (0 pts)
Wis: 27 (14 +2 Race +6 Magic +3 Level 5 pts)
Cha: 14 (14 5 pts)

Feats
Human: Toughness
Lvl 1: Heavy Armor Prof.
Lvl 3: Extend Spell
Lvl 5: Selective Channeling
Lvl 7: Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Lvl 9: Step Up
Lvl 11: Craft Wondrous Item
Lvl 13: Quicken Spell
Lvl 15: Lightning Reflexes
Lvl 17: Improved Lightning Reflexes
Lvl 19: Shield Focus

Domains: Archon(Good), Glory)
[sblock=Domain Granted Powers]
Touch of Good: You can touch a creature as a standard action, granting giving it a +1/2 Cleric Level sacred bonus on attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 round. You can use this ability 3 + Wis Mod times per day. 

Touch of Glory:  You can cause you hand to shimmer with divine radiance, allowing you to touch a creature as a standard action and give it a + Cleric Level  bonus to a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check. This ability lasts for one hour or until the creature touched elects to apply the bonus to a roll. You can use this ability to grant the bonus 3 + Wis times per day. 

Divine Presence: You can emit a 30-foot aura of divine presence for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. All allies within this aura are treated as if under the effects of a sanctuary spell with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 your cleric level + your Wisdom modifier. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. Activating this ability is a standard action. If an ally leaves the area or makes an attack, the effect ends for that ally. If you make an attack, the effect ends for you and your allies.

Aura of Menace: You can emit a 30-foot aura of menace as a standard action. Enemies in this aura take a –2 penalty to AC and on attacks and saves as long as they remain inside the aura. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
[/sblock]

Spells (CL 20)
TBD

Channel Positive Energy: 5 per day 10d6, can choose 2 targets to not be effected

Skills

```
Skill                         Bonus     Ranks   CS    Mod   Misc
Diplomacy                      +25       20      3     2     0
Spellcraft                     +23       20      3     0     0
know (Religion)                +13       10      3     0     0
Sense Motive                   +20       10      3     7     0
```
Gear:
TBD

[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (Nov 29, 2010)

Hmm. The chargen rules state no Traits, don't they? Or am I seeing things?


----------



## Lughart (Nov 29, 2010)

That seems to be correct.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 29, 2010)

The chargen rules?  I know I took 2 traits, which seems appropriate given its the default amount as a rule.

Edit: Oh I see, 1st post has been edited.  Why no traits fireinthedust?  It seems like sticking within the conventional norms would make this a more viable test of high level play, although honestly it will make very little difference at this level.

I'll also note that the SRD contains all the info from the APG which was discussed earlier in the thread extensively.  So is the APG available or not?  I've used it fairly extensively in my character build, not having seen the rules - other than 25pb - before doing so.


----------



## Padreigh (Nov 29, 2010)

So Paladin it is. I'll have something up by noon tomorrow (GMT).


----------



## jackslate45 (Nov 29, 2010)

Traits? What traits?  I see no traits there!


Lune has been updated to reflect not having said traits.


----------



## Scott DeWar (Nov 30, 2010)

oops, no traits eh. . . .i have no traits.


----------



## Padreigh (Nov 30, 2010)

So, first draft (never built such a high level character before, so any comments, suggestions, rants etc more than welcome)

Aethelred of Waylan's Rest

Human Paladin (lv. 20), Favoured class: Paladin (Extra skill point)

STR 18 (15 + 3 level) Dex 12 Int 12 Con 12 Wis 12 Cha 20 (16+2 Race +2 level)

HP: 220 (bonus from items missing)

Fort Ref Will (TBD after items are bought)

Skills 
Diplomacy 20 Linguistics 10 Knowledge: Religion 20 Spellcraft 10 Sense Motive 20 Heal 10 Perception 10 

Feats:
Extra Lay on Hands, Extra Mercy, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Shield Focus, Cleave, Greater Cleave, Quick Draw, Dazzling Display, Shatter Defences, Deadly Strike, Vital Strike

Mercies: Fatigued, Diseased, Poisoned, Blinded, Paralyzed, Stunned, Cursed

Items: Holy Avenger, Ghost Touch Full Plate +5, Amulet of Natural Armour +5, Heavy Ghost Touch Shield +5 of Arrow Deflection, Ring of Regeneration, Belt of Physical Might + 6 (STR,CON), Headband of Alluring Charisma +6, Ring of Protection +5, Cloak of Resistance +5

Money remaining: 252560 GP


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## HolyMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Wait... wait...

You buy a Holy Avenger and still have a 1/4 million gp left over??  What?

HM


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## Padreigh (Nov 30, 2010)

Isn't starting money for 20th level 880,000 GP?
A Holy Avenger costs 120630 GP ...


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## HolyMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Your numbers are correct, but how do they justify a Holy Avenger costing less than a...

_+5 holy longsword of speed_(cost: 200,315gp)?

HM


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## jackslate45 (Nov 30, 2010)

it's a Holy Avenger?


Its also normally a +2 cold iron Longsword for everyone else.  That might be why its priced cheaper.  Besides, a 3 wish luck blade is 142,960 gp.  For 3 wishes!


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## Padreigh (Nov 30, 2010)

I assume because it a +2 cold iron longsword for everyone but paladins.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd like to start up the Rogue's Gallery.

I would also like everyone to give me a few generic numbers so I can design encounters:  Their highest attack bonus, and the attack bonus they'll use most regularly (or an average of the most FREQUENTLY used attacks).

For Spellcasters, I don't know.  Maybe save DCs?   Suggestions?

I'm not trying to tpk, I just want to have an idea of what you can do.

Holy Avenger:  huh.  weird.  maybe the +2 cold iron part.  Dunno.  Ask James Jacobs?


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## Lughart (Dec 3, 2010)

Normal attack bonus: +41

Highest possible attack bonus: +43 (undeadbane weapon)

AC: 40

CMD: 45 (in case someone tries to swallow me or something)


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## fireinthedust (Dec 3, 2010)

+41?  Let me guess: str, magic item, weapon focus, buff spells?


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## Lughart (Dec 3, 2010)

+20 bab, +9 str (including magic belt), +2 weapon focus & greater weapon focus, +5 magic weapon, +5 weapon training fighter class feature. Pathfinder did some nice things for the fighter.

Note that if we're ever captured and I have to fight with a chair leg, it'll drop by 15.

By the way, if the party ends up being as big as it looks like now, I'll drop leadership. We can build an organization the old fashioned way if we feel like it.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 3, 2010)

by 15?  -2, -5... -7 so far.  What, no improvised weapon means -8 to hit?

Granted, I don't know if you'll be using Power Attack at any time.  Should drop it more.

Whatever.  I'll get the characters in and then start thinking of villains.  +41 is too awesome to mess around... Hmm....  +30 average attack should do for AC, then.  And piles of hp, DR...  

How are you for average attack damage?  And max damage?


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## Lughart (Dec 3, 2010)

I included the weapon training bonus and the magical str increase. Including the improvised weapons penalty that would actually be 19.

Damage: +5 viscious, wounding, shock, thundering greatsword. Ignoring damage reduction or resistances thats 5d6 + 27, and 1d6 to me. So an average of 44 and some bleed on a normal hit. The critical is 17-20/x3 (automatically confirmed) plus some sonic damage from thundering.

Say I hit half the time, including misses and criticals thats an average of 40 damage on each attack. Thats without power attack.

Max damage (on a crit.) is 229. I think.

About power attack. You said something about not approving all of the APG stuff. I found this feat, and I though I should wait for approval before taking it since it is pretty insane. Basically lets me ignore the attack penalty from power attack once per round.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 3, 2010)

maaaaybe next level.  Or as an item bonus.  Once per round?!  Unless I can find something to cancel it, that's way too good.  And by cancel, I mean overshadow it so that you need it to survive round-to-round.

I may have that, btw, but we'll know soon after the game starts.  So this isn't a "no" so much as a "not yet".


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## Lughart (Dec 3, 2010)

Perfectly OK. I have a monstrously high damage output allready, there is a reason I asked before putting steroids into the mix. And by steroids I mean non-core supplements.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 3, 2010)

Malacarus:
CL 21 (25 for spell resistance purposes)
Base DC 21+spell level, +2 for illusion and necromancy spells.
Can quicken spells, carries a rod of major quicken
Contingent greater invisibility if attacked
Spellbook protected by a symbol of death
custom staff containing greater teleport (1 charge), plane shift(1 charge), greater planar binding(1 charge), mass suggestion(1 charge)

I'd like someone to step up as the hero he is stuck serving, but if no one steps up he could be acting against a threat to his power and needs the heroes or somesuch.


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## Lughart (Dec 3, 2010)

I could be that guy, but I'm stuck on how to ensure Malacaruss' loyalty. I just doubt my LN fighter would let him live without some assurance, so I feel the job should fall to the paladin. Unless one of the spellcasters could craft a spesific wondrous item for the task.


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## Padreigh (Dec 3, 2010)

Not too sure, if my Paladin can do it. "Willingly associating with an evil character" and such ... but maybe I am trying to "reform" him.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 3, 2010)

Might make sense for it to be another Wizard, Thadeius is good, but probably more in asort of broad minded intellectualistic manner.  On the other hand he is an elf...


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## fireinthedust (Dec 3, 2010)

I can be slightly lenient on the willing association part.  Keep in mind you lot may also be rulers of some sort, or at least protectors.  Also, he could be the key to something important, meaning you can't kill him... yet.  Or the paladin could have some sort of noble duty to him, one bestowed upon him by law, like the necromancer is his subject/servant/bonded slave.  If this isn't reacted to, some baneful result comes along that's worse than outright killing him.  reforming him could be permitted.


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## Shayuri (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm still agonizing a bit over my rogue's build. Here's some tidbits though.

AC 40 (10+12 dex +8 armor +5 deflecton +5 natural)
HP 260
Attack bonus: +31 (BAB +14, Dex +12, enhancement +5)
Single-round avg damage output: 49 + 2 strength damage.

Clearly these are lackluster, with the exception of damage output. I'm looking to mitigate the AC issue by relying on stealth and mobility (via spring attack) to avoid massive counterattacks. Attack bonus is trickier, though in many cases I'll have +2 to hit due to either flanking or striking from hiding.

Currently toying with two builds. One uses a spiked chain and Vital Strike to do 8d4+12 damage, plus 5d6 sneak attack. The other uses a scimitar, Vital Strike, and Dervish Dance to do 4d6+17, plus 5d6 sneak attack. It averages 48 damage, but crits on 15-18. It also costs one more feat.

Lately I've been questioning the entire 'rogue' thing, to be honest. I'm not entirely sure what this character offers the party that it can't get better from someone else.

So now I'm thinking...maybe a monk?

I forget what everyone else is playing though. Is there a list?


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## WarlockLord (Dec 3, 2010)

Feel free to put Malacarus under some sort of magical contract.  While he would undoubtedly despise the situation, he would willingly sign such a contract to preserve his own life.

Paladin trying to reform him would be pretty cool, but I wouldn't say no to any of you guys.

Also, while Malacarus is evil, a LARGE part of his reputation is that he always keeps his word.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 3, 2010)

Lets see....

Spell DC = 23 + Spell Level
CL = 21
Rod of Ultimate Quickening - can quicken 3 spells of 3rd level or lower per day, 3 spells of 6th level or lower per day, and 3 spells of 9th level or lower per day.


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## Shayuri (Dec 3, 2010)

Warlorck Lord...one thing about your Drow Necromancer...he's level 20.

Pretty sure Drow lose a couple of levels due to their being pretty awesome. ECL +2, aren't they?


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## Padreigh (Dec 3, 2010)

They have been toned down a bit in Pathfinder (drow nobles are a different story ...). 

And I think they have removed the level adjustment somehow, but recommend something similar to it. Can't recall the rules at the moment.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah the standard PF Drow really is not worth anykind of level adjustment.  Their best feature is their spell resistance which is low enough that it's a none issue for dedicated casters.


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## Shayuri (Dec 3, 2010)

*reads*

Hmm! Well, I'd agree they're not ECL +2 in PF...

But they seem substantially better than just regular elves, which suggests a +1 ECL to me.

Then again, I ain't the GM in the building, so lets see what he's got to say.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 3, 2010)

I've had fun with a level 18 rogue at a Con once.  consider that there will be more than combat.  In fact, bet on it.  Combat will be an issue for sure, but if the party can't get by a locked door (magically reinforced) because you're not there, it would be a sad day for goodness... a great day for evil, but a sad day for goodness.

I could give you tips if you need them, though I don't know if they apply; just that one time.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 5, 2010)

is this the kind of information you are looking for?  :

Hedron Treefriend NG Human Ranger 20
hp: 280 / 280

Senses:
60 ft dark vision; perception + 29; stealth +40; survival +33; tracking +43

spell dc:
16 + spell level


Saves:
Fort    +22
Ref     +24
Will     +17

A/C 30
TOUCH 24 
FF 25

Combat:
 primary weapon - Bow, long comp,mighty +4, +5 enc, distance, flaming burst, bane: human(giant)
att: +34
averrage damage with greater vital strike: 27

w/ deadly aim: +29 att, 37 damage average


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## jackslate45 (Dec 6, 2010)

I have been looking at the cleric build, and not liking it.  I might rearrange to be more of a buff cleric than the Battle cleric I had before.  I only have a +28 to hit, so I think I did it wrong.  Will work on the numbers a bit.

Edit: Forgot to add the Wish Bonus (+4 STR +5 WIS).  So:

HP: 300
AC: 44
Fort: +22
Reflex: +16.  Once Per Day reroll a save
Will: +27

+30 to Attack Bonus
Can add +20 to any CHA roll, including UMD and Diplomacy
Add +10 to rolls for 1 round.  

DC: 20 + Spell Level

Skills:
Diplomacy: +25
Sense Motive: +23
Spellcraft: +23
Know Religion: +13

Sanctuary DC: For 20 rounds per day, can create a Sanctuary Aura with a DC Will of 30.  

Has a weapon that can store a 3rd level spell in it (Normally Dispel Magic)


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 6, 2010)

+28 to hit seems reasonable prebuff, throw a quickened buff spell on yourself each round and those numbers should rapidly swell.  Just Divine power would give you a +34 to hit 6 extra damage and an extra attack - which does not stack with haste.  Though it has to be said Cleric combat buffs aren't what they were in 3.5.


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## Shayuri (Dec 6, 2010)

Well, here's what I got so far for roguey mcroguesalot.

Not sure how I feel about it, but I think it'll work. Optimized for hit and run attacks using spring attack, vital strike, and stealth.

The Pathfinder rules are a little vague on the summoned shadow's traits. It says, for example, that the shadow uses my BAB and save bonuses, and half my hit points...but it doesn't say if the shadow counts as being more HD (and thus gets more feats, skills, etc). Still, between its Str damage and my Crippling Strike, we could whittle a badguy's damage potential down pretty fast if need be...

[sblock=Thorn]*Thorn*
Female Half elf Rogue 10 / Shadowdancer 10
Alignment: Neutral
Age: 18
Languages: Common, ?, ?

Appearance: 

Statistics
Str: 10 (+0) 0
Dex: 34 (+12) 13 (17 + 2 racial + 5 level + 4 inherent + 6 item)
Con: 18 (+4) 2 (12 + 6 item)
Int: 14 (+2) 5
Wis: 16 (+3) 0 (10 + 6 item)
Cha: 20 (+5) 5 (14 + 6 item)

Hit Points:240
Armor Class: 42 (10 + 1 dodge + 12 dex + 8 armor + 5 deflection +5 natural + 1 insight)
Initiative: +12
BAB: +14
CMB: +14
CMD: 36
Speed: 30'

Saves
Fort: +16 (+6 class, +4 con, + 5 resistance, + 1 competence)
Reflex: +28 (+10 class, +12 Dex, +5 resistance, +1 competence)
Will: +15

Melee: Madness Deceiver, +32, 1d6+17, 15-20x2, (+2d6 if only one attack made in rnd, +5d6 sneak attack)
Ranged: 

Feats
b Skill Focus: Stealth
1 Dodge
3 Martial Weapon Prof: Scimitar
5 Dervish Dance
7 Mobility
9 Combat Reflexes
11 Conceal Scent
13 Spring Attack
15 Vital Strike
17 Improved Vital Strike
19 Shadow Strike

Racial Abilities
+2 Dex
Medium, normal speed
Low Light Vision
Adaptability (Skill Focus as bonus feat)
Elf Blood, Immunities (immune to magic sleep, +2 save vs enchantment)
Keen Senses (+2 Perception)

Class Abilities
Rogue
Sneak Attack 5d6
Trapfinding (+5 Perception/Disable vs Traps)
Improved Evasion
Trap Sense +3 (saves/AC vs traps)
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Rogue Talents
- Finesse Rogue (Weapon Finesse)
- Trap Spotter (Get chance to notice traps automatically within 10')
- Fast Stealth (No penalty to stealth for movement)
- Resiliency (gain temp HP once/day)
Adv Rogue Talents
- Crippling Strike (2 Str damage on sneak attack)

Shadowdancer
Hide in Plain Sight
Darkvision 60'
Shadow Illusion (Simple Illusion) 5/day, DC16
Summon Shadow 
Shadow Call (Greater Shadow Conjuration, 4/day, DC 22)
Shadow Jump 320'/day
Defensive Roll 
Slippery Mind 
Shadow Power (Shadow Evocation, 2/day, DC 20)
Shadow Master (DR 10, +2 luck all saves, blind 1d6rnds on crit, only in dim light)
Rogue Talents (Adv)
- Opportunist
- Combat Trick: Combat Expertise
- Feat: Hellcat Stealth (Hide under observation in bright or normal light, at -10 stealth)

Skills 110r + 80sd
Acrobatics +33 (18 ranks + 12 dex + 2 + 3 class)
Appraise +15 (10 ranks + 2 int + 3 class)
Bluff +23 (15 ranks + 5 cha + 3 class)
Climb +13 (10 ranks + 0 str + 3 class)
Disable Device +34 (20 ranks + 12 dex + 3 class) +5 vs traps
Escape Artist +25 (10 ranks + 12 dex + 3 class)
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +14 (9 ranks + 2 Int + 3 class)
Knowledge (Local) +14 (9 ranks + 2 Int + 3 class)
Perception +31 (20 ranks + 3 Wis + 3 class + 5 competence) +5 vs traps
Perform (dance) +17 (9 ranks + 5 Cha + 3 class)
Sleight of Hand +20 (5 ranks + 12 dex + 3 class)
Steath +48 (20 ranks + 12 Dex + 3 feat + 3 class +10 item)
Survival +4 (1 ccrank + 3 Wis)
Use Magic Device +24 (16 ranks + 5 cha + 3 class)

Weapons
Madness Deceiver - +5 Keen Mithril Scimitar, 2lbs, 74,025

Armor
Bracers of Armor +8, 64k

Equipment
Amulet of Natural Armor +5, 50k
Belt of Physical Might (Con/Dex) +6, 90k
Headband of Mental Prowess (Wis/Cha) +6, 90k
Eyes of the Eagle, 2.5k
Cloak of Ethereal Resistance +5, 92.5k
* Etherealness, 55k
* Resistance +5, 25k+50%=37.5k
Ring of Sympathetic Reflection, 120k
* Spell Turning, 100k
* Chameleon Power 12700+50% (rounded up to 20k)
Ring of Protection +5, 50k

Handy Haversack, 2k
Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone, 30k
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone, 5k
Gem of Seeing, 75k
5'x5' Flying Carpet, 20k
Dust of Tracelessness

Wand of Darkness (50/50), 4500
Manual of Quickness of Action +4, 110,000 (used)

Money 250

Background

[/sblock]

[sblock=Shadow Companion]Shadow
Medium Incorporeal Undead
Hit Dice: Special, 120hp
Initiative: +2
Speed: fly 40'(good)
Armor Class: 15
Base Attack +14
Attack: Incorporeal touch +14, 1d6Str
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: +4 Will vs positive energy, cannot be turned/commanded, undead traits, incorporeal
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +12, Will +7
Abilities: Str -, Dex 14, Con -, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 15
Skills: Fly +11, Perception +8, Stealth +8 (+12 in dim light, +4 in bright)

Feats: Dodge, Skill Focus: Perception
Languages: Common[/sblock]


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 6, 2010)

It does not sound like it is supposed to Shayuri, the text says that it has half your hp and uses your base save bonuses, but that otherwise it is identical to the one in the Bestiary - it would not be identical if it had extra feats, etc.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 6, 2010)

and i use greater vital strike, pinpoint targeting and far shot, I can do some really nasty long shots.

that means i can do 4d8+19 damage, +(2d8+18) crit damage+2d10 fire on a confirmed crit

and only -5 for the pinpoint targeting and -5 for ranges between 880 ft to 1100 feet.

Did I do good? Oh, and then there is the giant bane thingy.

edit: Rats, i forgot to add the 1d6 flaming that flaming burst provides. so about 111 points damage if all went crit, confirmed and rolled max on all dice.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 6, 2010)

can you take distance twice (stacking) for treble the range modifier? (330 ft/ incrament)


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## fireinthedust (Dec 7, 2010)

Hmm, good question.  My response is "sure, but I'll just make the playing field bigger.  Is that what you truly want?"   


More info needed:  What part of the Golarion setting are you lot?  ie: kings of a single country; under-lords to a young king you're teaching; hidden sages; retired heroes who run a tavern in Absalom, etc.

Who are you, and what are you doing right now?

What have you been doing since reaching level 20?

Who do you already know; does everyone belong to the same group; and what adventures have you had together?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 7, 2010)

I say we were an adventuring party, we split the levels into our number and roll to see who gets what.  Say there are 5 of us and I get levels 8-12 I'm responsible for giving a brief account of our adventures through those levels.  the drow can have joined on his go, etc.

Thadeius has probably been researching various magics in his tower and debating with other learned men, etc.


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## Lughart (Dec 7, 2010)

I like the idea of letting people account for different parts of our careers. Furthermore, I think it would fit if we were all time of the same group at one point or another, Malacarus coming in later of course.

When they split, Gerhard was tired of slaughter and destruction and settled down as a swordsmith in some remote little town. Now he's the guy heroes travel to visit when they need a weapon to kill some great threat to humanity.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 7, 2010)

I was thinking that I had been tracking a paticular baddie and just finished him off with say an arrow: something bane/bleeding that I had made Just for him. It might be possible that he spoke his last words sayng something that is the hook to the adventure.

I return back from the outlands (outer planes) to track down the party and gather them to gether.


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## jackslate45 (Dec 7, 2010)

After helping the party take down threat X, Y, and subduing Malacarus, and crafting a Jailer's Ring (its in APG, but I forgot what it does.  PFSRD did not have anything) or similar item to bind Malacarus, Lune would have set up a church, and had ministered the greatness of Iomedae.  

While he would normally just be doing priestly duties, he also was gifted with a magical sword from Iomedae, which functions as a +5 Brilliant Energy weapon which requires Holy Sword cast upon it to activate it.  Otherwise it is a boring hilt that does nothing.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 7, 2010)

What if Malacarus was the original campaign's Gargamel?  Or Skeletor, the Monarch, etc.  Basically he's your age-old foe, the group has him enslaved (for the good of the universe), and the paladin is trying to turn him good?  The whole time he'd occasionally show up at just the right moment when another baddie is kicking your butts, so he can "finish you myself, in my own time!  Hahahahahaaa!", and hasn't gotten around to it yet.  still.  eventually!


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## Shayuri (Dec 7, 2010)

Hee

That gives me a crazy idea. What if my character originally worked for Malacarus, but switched sides at some point...perhaps when she realized how evil he was, or perhaps due to mistreatment or he could have been blackmailing me, or maybe I was just getting weary of taking his orders...


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 7, 2010)

Problem is there is nothing we can do that can genuinely keep a 20th level Wizard under our thumbs if he remains evil...

So I suggest a Helm of Opposite Alignment, he was a big bad, but because we needed all the help we could get with X we put a helm of Opposite Alignment on him and forcefully kept putting it on him until he no longer detected evil.


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## jackslate45 (Dec 7, 2010)

Aldern Foxglove said:


> Problem is there is nothing we can do that can genuinely keep a 20th level Wizard under our thumbs if he remains evil...
> 
> So I suggest a Helm of Opposite Alignment, he was a big bad, but because we needed all the help we could get with X we put a helm of Opposite Alignment on him and forcefully kept putting it on him until he no longer detected evil.




Half the fun of the character though would be that he IS evil.  Opposite Alignment just makes it so he is tolerable. 

Imagine, a group of adventurers coming into your home and kick the @$$ out of you.  You swear to never do it again, but they dont believe you.  Instead, with (Divine Intervention/Artifact Item) X, they force you to work for them, or you die.  Forced into a corner not even wish can break, you agree.  However, you are always waiting for X to be destroyed, so you can defeat the adventurers.

Like AF said, nothing mortal can hold a 20th level caster at bay.  Deity level magic can do it, but the God needs to either be:

1: Accepting the forced servitude of a Lawful Evil Caster (Which most Good gods will not)
2: Forsee that without his help, some greater evil will win (Most likley this)


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 7, 2010)

To be honest having an evil character just seems like it will be a distracting pain in the butt that will slow things down and hurt versimlitude to me.  *shrugs*  

I would think we would want as few complications as possible in a 20th level game.  I just don't see an upside.  If he used to be evil we don't have to worry he can still come up with evil comments,

"The man's a rank amateur, that's not how you peel a baby."
"If I were still an evil overlord I would not have my fortress guarded by Balors they have no finesse, its far more impressive to break and torture a victim than to simply tear him in half."


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## fireinthedust (Dec 7, 2010)

Okay, this is where we throw in the mcguffin X.  Here's some options:

1)  Not changing his alignment, but some artefact or geas that cannot be broken keeps him loyal.  The deity could be one of law or bargains, one which he entered in to, so that if he breaks it there will be Outsiders hunting him like crazy; even a 20th level PC would balk at that.  I don't think Wishes should be thrown around to break plot devices.  This McGuffin X would be a plot device.

2)  One of the many soul-selling deals he made went sour, and the patron wants a peice of him.  This would be the Skeletor problem:  Hordak is an evil outsider (Orcus level guy), Skeletor was the warlock, deal got broken.  Who can protect Skeletor?  Only He-man and the Masters of the Universe!  (or She-Ra)
       Because that's the kind of guy He-man is, he'll do it, no matter who is begging for help; even Skeletor's life has value, and maybe he'll change for the good.  This is the same as Superman defending Lex Luthor from Darkseid.  

Paladins can do this, damn that non-association; it doesn't apply, as this isn't wheeling and dealing with evil, it's doing his job of following his principles, no matter the moral status of the one under his protection.

Whatever it is, Malacarus would need to not do evil things while under their protection.  Well, not too bad stuff.

Obviously we need to keep the plot moving and not get bogged down.  If it becomes all about player v player, we'll scale it back for sure.

This is about the entertainment factor.  Evil comments are a form of comedy relief: say inappropriate things that have punch, or play the (literal) devil's advocate when discussing options.  In a way, I think focus could be put on the good guys to answer the comments and suggestions.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 7, 2010)

As the Malacarus player, I'd prefer option one.  He would probably wait till the plot device is destroyed/or he can shatter it himself.

As for option two, it'd create an interesting dynamic.

Just to keep things in perspective, for Malacarus, the Evil Overlord List are rules to live by.  He's pretty genre savvy.  Dunno if that makes a difference.

As for Shayuri's background: sure, go for it.  He wouldn't have mistreated you, as he values his minions pretty highly.  Feel free to suffer a conscience attack or whatever.

Fireinthedust, how much more specific should I make my background?  If you want I could come up with the exact evil plot the heroes foiled.


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## Shayuri (Dec 7, 2010)

Values his minions highly? And he calls himself evil!

Hmph!


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 7, 2010)

Hmmm, well if everyone else thinks its a good idea I'll shut up, lol. 

How long are we looking at before we actually start play?

[sblock=How About]Thadeius is the third Scion of the Elven Royal house of Halar, he was banished from elven lands after using enchantment to try to stop his Father executing his Sister Elilinereen for adultery - her marriage having been arranged.  He failed.

Joining up with the adventuring Company known as The Broken Falcons during the seige of Meleen, where he bested the Orc Shaman Veaslag as a force of elite orcs attempted to open the gates after scaling the walls while invisible.

After Meleen he stayed with the Broken Falcons traveling to the City of Thesh where they became embroiled in a series of kidnappings.  Eventually they discovered the creatures called Skum were taking women to impregnate to make more of their kind, and their Aboleth master had been dominating the cities officials.  They fought the Aboleth in the cities great aquifer, defeating the beast and managing to escape and rouse Thesh's armies in time to meet the Skum - who boiled forth upon discovering their masters death.

After taking some time out to study in Thesh's Great Library Thadeius was called upon by his brother who was challenging his father for the throne.  Thadeius recruited most of the Broken Eagles and set out to investigate the situation.  Discovering that his father had become one of the living dead, a Vampire, and had proceeded to turn the majority of the elven nobles.  They tracked down the vampire who turned his father, Vortesh the Damned, and battled him upon the rooftops of the elven palace.

Thadeius destroyed his father before, snapping several of the Broken Eagles out of vortesh's thrall so they could destroy him.  Despite being hailed as a hero Thadeius's banishment was still in effect, his brother refusing to lift it since it would destabalize his own rule.

After this the High Lords of Thesh summoned the Broken Eagles to stop the invasion of an alien people called the Githyanki who rode great red dragons and had desimated Thesh's armies.  Together the Broken Eagles defeated the Githyanki Eldritch Knight General, Lenee the Blooddancer, and the two great dragons Skalidrak Incardamane, and Gethrashidalle the Inferno parents of the Gith's red dragon mounts.

After this Thadeius was appointed head Master of Thesh's Aurion Academy.  He called upon the Broke Eagles when a Rakasha by the name of Kaldrazz stole an artifact long kept in the academy's vaults called the Sapphire Tear.  Some divinations revealed that the Tear had the ability to track down an ancient beast known as the Tarrasque.

The Broken Eagles tracked the Rakasha to the elemental plane of fire and after a few clashes with the Efreeti disintegrated Kaldrazz.  But the Tear was nowhere to be found, and resisted their greatest divinations.[/sblock]


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## fireinthedust (Dec 7, 2010)

Thdeius:  sweet!  The Broken Eagles are necessarily the PCs, and the name will need to change witht he group's preference.  Sounds like you were involved for a few adventures, not all of them: the seige of Meleen, the Scum/Aboleth kidnappings, the Vampire Father, and the high level Githyanki adventure.

The rest of the group needs to come up with let's say 4 adventures.  They don't need to be a whole campaign, but let's say this was series: what adventures are most important for your character?  

Start Time:  Let me et the rogues gallery up first.  I want to know what we're doing with Malacarus, and I have two classes that need to finish their final projects in the next two weeks.  That is the only real time suck, as once I'm done with them I'll be able to devote my creative time to this sucker.  I want to have a solid idea before the first post.

Also, I want the group to have a head quarters.  This is where we're starting.  I'm going to make it up, but I am open for suggestions.  I'm thinking a tower or high-up location; possibly a mountain converted into a fortress by Duergar or dwarves, before it was abandoned, then liberated by the group.  Alternatively, the Githyanki had a tower on a floating rock.  

Or, which can also be fun:  a neighborhood in the big city where you all have homes.  There's a wizard's tower, an epic one, that you liberated to meet in.

Think of it as where your group meets when discussing things important to your party.  If you have an idea, let me know.


Malacarus:  I'd prefer option 2, for the reason that it lets me have a focused reason to keep you in the game.  If your only desire is to destroy Talisman X, then you'll use your considerable resources to just get that done; then you're out of the game, as you're not in the party.  On the other hand, if the main villain of the series is out to get you, so that you want to hang with the Heroes, that keeps us together at least as long as this adventure.

A possible take is that you've got a phylactery, the bad guy has it, you need help getting it back.  Or there's a similar object that you want (like the Tear) and without it you're screwed.  Also the PCs are the only ones who can protect you from the BBEG.  

Keep in mind you're pitching an evil overlord, not a tragic anti-hero.  If you want that, go for Elric.  He's a rock n roll anti-hero.  He deals with fiends all the time, is caught in his cycle of destruction, hates himself, the works.  


  Evil Overlord, on the other hand, and we're thinking Dr. Evil.  That's fun, it's funny, and it works.  But we need a solid reason when we're initiating the story, something more than "I just need to find this object"; the reason is you're 20th level.  You're kicking butt and taking names as it is.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 8, 2010)

Not sure I got my concept over right.  I was thinking extremely genre savvy villain.  More like a grown up Scott Evil ("Just shoot him") with elements of Grand Admiral Thrawn.  Not Stupid Evil, but utterly merciless and willing to do almost anything to benefit himself.  Values loyalty through means other than fear,, because once one minion goes disloyal, the rest follow.  Pragmatic evil.  Maybe funny, but dangerous.
Alright.  As we all know OOC that Malacarus is evil, I'm not going to bother writing up some sort of masquerade thing.

How about the main villain of the series somehow taking over his evil empire and Malacarus joining the heroes to get it back?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 8, 2010)

The Paladin probably isn't going to help you get your evil empire back...  Probably needs to be more like the new big bad wants to kill you and the only ones powerful enough to prevent that are your old foes.  Bear in mind we could quite easily determine if you simply wished to return to your evil ways, and I know Thadeius would have subjected him to a multitude of divinations, etc.


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## Lughart (Dec 8, 2010)

More fluff. I'm not very familiar with the setting, so please insert location names where appropriate.

[sblock=Adventures]Gerhard Vangerdahast was the son of a blacksmith and veteran of the last war. Good at taking orders and not one to second guess his superiors, he was never the less getting sick of the tedium of beurocracy and chain of command, and set out as a mercenary as soon as the war was over.

It was then that a local baron called out for warriors to save his beloved wife from a band of roving bandits. Gerhard joined a small group of adventurers to bring her back, and their efforts successful, they discovered the plot was simply a distraction to keep the barons forces from assisting at the siege of Meleen.

After battling the scum at Thesh, one of Gerhards companions disappeared mysteriously. The group tracked him to the estate of the wizard Sorgendal, who was in the process of building flesh golems for a hostile takeover of the city's mage guilds. After rescuing their companion, dispatching the golems and bringing Sorgendal to justice, Gerhard asked the mages to teach him their occult secrets of weaponsmithing as his reward.

Later, after being summoned to help Thadeus investigate a plot against his father, Gerhard was enslaved by the vampire Vortesh and caused many headaches for his friends plans. He was freed, and assisted in the destruction of Vortesh and his vampire enclave.

Gerhard and his companions traveled north into the mountains to stop a tribe of frost giants from terrorizing the outlying villages. They were quickly caught up in the middle of a clash between the frost giants and a group of remorhaz. They discovered the remorhaz was being controlled by a vile beast called a neothelid, and after slaying it they negotiated a truce ensuring peace between the giants and the humanoid settlements. When the others left the mountains, Gerhard stayed on for a time to ensure the truce was being honored. During his time with the giants he learned their language and won the tribes respect by once again braving the caverns of the remorhaz, quelling the beasts and earning the title of "worm friend".

After defeating the Gith army and their red dragons, the group was caught up in a war with the kraken lich Bahnlodaer, a fearsome monster from the plane of shadow. The heroes defeated Bahnlodaer and his undead minions before they could be unleshed upon the material plane, but the krakens phylactery was never found.[/sblock]
[sblock=Gerhard]Race: human
Class: fighter
Level: 20
Alignement: lawful neutral
Languages: Common, giant

Str    28 (16 +2 race +4 lvl +6 magic, 10 pts.)
Dex    22 (15 +1 lvl +6 magic, 7 pts)
Con    20 (14 +6 magic, 5 pts)
Int    12 (2 pts)
Wis    10 (0 pts)
Cha    11 (1 pts)

AC:40 (10 +6 DEX +14 armor +5 nat + 5 deflection)
HP:310 ((10 +5 CON)x20 +10 FC)
Init:+10 (6 DEX +4 feat)
Speed:30'
CMD:45 (10 +20 BAB +9 STR +6 DEX)(not including weapon training)
CMB:+29 (20 BAB +9 STR)(not including weapon training)
Melee:+29 (20 BAB +9 STR)
Ranged:+26 (20 BAB +6 DEX)
Fort: 22 (12 BS +5 CON +5 magic)
Ref: 17 (6 BS +6 DEX +5 magic)
Will: 13 (6 BS +5 magic)
Damage reduction: 5/-
Spell resistance: -

Weapon stats
Bleeding thunder: +41/+36/+31/+26, 4d6+23+1d6 elecricity+1 bleed (17-20/x3 + 

2d8 sonic + deafen (fort DC 14 negates)) (29 melee +2 feat +5 class feature +5 

magic)
Phantoms bane(vs. undead): +43/+38/+33/+28, 4d6+25 (17-20/x3)
Spear (thrown): +34, 1d8+17(x3) (26 ranged +4 class feature +4 magic)

Armor stats:
Full plate, +14 AC, ACP 0, max dex +7

Class/racial features: bonus feat, bonus skill points, bravery +5, armor 

training 4, weapon training (heavy blades +5, spears +4, close +3, bows +2, 

light blades +1) armor mastery, weapon mastery (greatsword)

Feats(in order learned):
Human  power attack
Lvl 1  weapon focus (greatsword)
Ftr 1  cleave 
Ftr 2  intimidating prowess
Lvl 3  dazzling display
Ftr 4  weapon specialization (greatsword)
Lvl 5  master craftsman 
Ftr 6  shatter defences
Lvl 7  craft magic arms & armor
Ftr 8  greater weapon focus (greatsword)
Lvl 9  iron will
Ftr 10 great cleave
Lvl 11 improved iron will
Ftr 12 greater weapon specialization (greatsword)
Lvl 13 deadly stroke
Ftr 14 combat reflexes
Lvl 15 improved critical (greatsword)
Ftr 16 lunge
Lvl 17 improved initiative
Ftr 18 penetrating strike
Lvl 19 skill focus (craft weaponsmithing)
Ftr 20 greater penetrating strike

Skills
Ranks: (2 + 1 INT +1 race) x20 + 10 FC = 50


```
Skill                   Bonus  Ranks  CS    Mod   Misc
craft (weaponsmithing)  +34    20     3     1     8 (feats) 2 (gear)
intimidate              +32    20     3     0     9 (STR)
knowledge (engineering) +14    10     3     1     0
ride                    +19    10     3     6     0
survival                +13    10     3     0     0
swim                    +22    10     3     9     0
climb                   +22    10     3     9     0
```
Gear:
Bleeding thunder; +5 shock, thundering, viscious, wounding greatsword
Phantoms bane; +5 ghost touch, undeadbane greatsword
+4 returning spear
Spiders silk; +5 ghost touch mithral full plate armor
Masterwork blacksmiths tools
Belt of physical perfection +6
Amulet of natural armor +5
Cloak of resistance +5
Ring of protection +5
Ring of regeneration
5x potion of cure serious wounds
Boots of speed

85 246gp[/sblock]


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 8, 2010)

Neolithid and Kraken Lich - nice.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 8, 2010)

could be good.  The main villain wouldn't necessarily be interested in the evil empire per se, as they'll be somewhat macro-evil... but okay.

Did you see Megamind yet?  Good film, just finished it.  I think I see what you're saying about "values loyalty", in that he has a friend named Minion.  An actual friend, though.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 8, 2010)

I enjoyed Megamind, nothing fancy, but funny and slick.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 8, 2010)

Craft Magic ARms & Armor:  can he take that?  I like the idea (big fan of the Michael Scott Rohan series starting with Anvil of Ice, with the Mastersmiths being non-casters (and awesome)), but you'd need spellcasting to get use of it; unless we totally fudge the rules for your character.  I don't hate the idea, though RAW he can't really take it without adequate levels in spellcasting.  And would you want to use the feat for something else?  

Kraken Lich:  heh.  heee heee.  Interesting idea, though it wouldn't be just a kraken with a template I'm afraid...


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## Lughart (Dec 8, 2010)

The Master Craftsman feat allows characters to substitute ranks in craft for spellcasting levels when crafting magic items. Each time the feat is taken it applies to one skill, so with Master Craftsman(craft weaponsmithing) I can take the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, but only use it to make metal weapons. Since I don't know any spells, crafting swords with special abilities has a very high DC.

Also, I've taken skill focus: craft, so thats three feats spent on making cool weapons. That still leaves 20 feats spent on @$$kicking.


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## Padreigh (Dec 8, 2010)

Unfortunately I have to withdraw from this game. My schedule for the next few weeks doesn't permit joining another game. 

Have fun.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 8, 2010)

Mastercraftsman:  really?!  That's fantastic!  I like that.  Done!  Ultimately, why not let dwarven fighters and beefy barbarians craft their own weapons?  economically, their gold is as good as anyone's, and they're less crazy to manage than spellcasters.


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## Lughart (Dec 8, 2010)

Just what I was thinking. LN fighter, much better to have around the forge.

BTW, we lost our paladin. Makes Malacarus easier to explain. Noone is duty bound to kill him. Still, bummer.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 8, 2010)

yeah, bummer.  Still: this is why I keep recruitment wide open, as anyone can drop at any time!

Padraigh:  any time you want to join a game, let me know, bud.  

Okay, I'm starting up the Rogue's Gallery.


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## jackslate45 (Dec 9, 2010)

I am going to be posting Lune's accomplishments after work today.  Just wanted to update you guys that I haven't forgotten, just that these last few days have been busy.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 9, 2010)

Jackslate45:  No problem.  I'm the same way.


Everyone:  I'm almost done this week, then I'll start the game up.  Holiday season is great, but I recognize it's not the easiest time to start a game with momentum.  However, I've got a good track record for finishing games I start, so if you're into it I will be there.

We've got character sheets up in the Rogue's Gallery already, which is great, but we're not done.  Right now is your opportunity to add elements to the campaign setting before we start that are beyond the scope of a normal character creation process.  If you want to design your own HQ, now is the time.  If not, I'll start with just what I said: a common area you meet up in.  If you guys generate your own locations now, or a few NPCs that are scattered about the setting (ie: the sage you get advice from, the beggar who spies for you, the captain of the guard who always catches you smoking when you step outside, etc.), I'll add them in.

Does that make sense?  

I'm a DM who likes players taking initiative and interest.  I'll respond based on that.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 10, 2010)

and here it is


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 10, 2010)

*The Echelon (Proposed Fortress for the Broken Falcons)*

Recently the surviving Broken Falcons (or whatever we decide to name the party) captured the great flying base of the Githyanki.  Disdaining the Githyanki's functional, but uninspired caves and barracks Thadeius called forth a permanent Magnificent Mansion tailoring it to provide each Falcon with a suite of rooms tailored to their needs.

Depicted just before the battle with the Red Dragons, the Broken Falcons having retreated into a Magnificent Mansion to recover after a tough battle to recover their strength.


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## jackslate45 (Dec 10, 2010)

(updating at work shhhh dont tell boss)

[sblock=Lune]
The first memory Lune remembered was seeing his parents get killed in the Goblin raids of Sandpoint.  However, due to the intervention of adventures, Sandpoint remained standing.  Without any parents, Lune was sent to nearby Magnimar to the temple of Iomedae to live as an orphan.  

It was there that he was raised as a cleric of Iomedae, and remained there until he was 19.  It was then that he met a group of adventures calling themselves the Grand Design.  He soon joined up with the group, and together stopped an orc raid for re-destroying the town of Dantris.  

It was there that he re-met one of the adventures who saved Sandpoint, a cleric named Anaerion.  Anaerion was also a cleric of Iomedae, and instructed Lune in more of her ways.  

Anaerion also learned a troubling truth.  The Grand Design was not as good as first though, as they were the ones who set up the raid against Dantris.  Infuriated by this news, Lune put a stop to their new plan of raising a dead dragon called Sartharion.  Afterwards, he left Dantris and headed East.

It was around then that he heard of the seige of Meleen.  He departed to help anyway he could, and was there recruited by another adventuring group called Broken Eagles.  Defeanding the front gates, Lune struck a terrible blow against a lieutenant Erdrak, felling him. 

The success of the Broken Eagles earned alot of reputation for Lune.  He was able to start his own orphanage in Thesh, and took care of the impregnated women while the rest of the Broken Eagles defeated the monsters called Skum.  There, he lead the armies of Thresh against the rapaging beasts.

Lune than would work as a priest and orphange owner for many years, splitting with the Broken Eagles for some time.  While in Thesh, he found infomation about the return of a powerful necromancer, named Malacarus, who seemed to be raising powerful undead armies against Thesh.  Leading another group of adventures called The Lady's Light, Lune stopped Malacarus' plan in Thesh.  However, Malacarus escaped.

After the Broken Eagles returned to Thesh, with the defeat of Thadeius father, Lune joined with them again, and assisted them in defeating Gith army and the Lich.

It was then that Malacarus would return.  Having a personal vendetta against him, Lune called upon the Lady's Light again.  Defeating Malcarus after a brutal war, with Malacarus begging for his life, Lune was about to strike down the Necromancer for good.

It was then that the Light of Iomdea's dimmed, and Lune's sword unignited when he raised it up.  Taking it as a sign that Iomedae had some plan for Malacarus, Lune reluctently agreed to keep the Nercromancer alive.  

Creating a powerful set of bindings for both him and Malacarus, Lune is charged with the duty to keep the Necromancer alive until Iomedae saw fit to release him...

[/sblock]

[sblock=Notes]
As the only religious guy left, I will bind Malacarus.  

Also, I need approval from FitD, as Holy Sword normally overwrites the weapons property instead of adding to it.  I was hoping that the sword is normally inactive, and can only be activated when Holy Sword is cast upon it.  It becomes a +5 Holy Briliant Energy Weapon for 20 rounds, then becomes useless for sometime.  I also cannot use it unless the need is super dire (think BBEG on steroids moments)
[/sblock]


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## fireinthedust (Dec 10, 2010)

jackslate45 said:


> (updating at work shhhh dont tell boss)
> 
> Also, I need approval from FitD, as Holy Sword normally overwrites the weapons property instead of adding to it.  I was hoping that the sword is normally inactive, and can only be activated when Holy Sword is cast upon it.  It becomes a +5 Holy Briliant Energy Weapon for 20 rounds, then becomes useless for sometime.  I also cannot use it unless the need is super dire (think BBEG on steroids moments)
> [/sblock]




I'm just learning the system, so I want to go RAW for now.  While i'm familiar with PF, my experience is mostly low-level (almost entirely, in fact).

If we play for a bit, and it isn't an issue, sure.  Let me have some time first with RAW, and then we'll see where we stand.  Okay?


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## jackslate45 (Dec 10, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> I'm just learning the system, so I want to go RAW for now.  While i'm familiar with PF, my experience is mostly low-level (almost entirely, in fact).
> 
> If we play for a bit, and it isn't an issue, sure.  Let me have some time first with RAW, and then we'll see where we stand.  Okay?




Fair enough.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 11, 2010)

Okay, any other stuff you want to add to your home base?  Anyone want to stat it up according to the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook?  You could have seriously altered the buildings and suchnot; or the Mansions are enough for you (fairly safe, I'd think).

Where is it?  In Golarion, I mean.  Over what realm?  I have the CS of old.

   And does anyone have a counter-proposal to the base, other than the floating citadel?


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## Shayuri (Dec 11, 2010)

I'd like Thorn to have a more...modest place to rest her heels called The Safe House, if that's all right. Giant floating castles attract a lot of attention, and she's built her career on avoiding that...or at least controlling when and where and how she gets it. 

My concept for the Safe House is of perfectly normal, somewhat rubbishy looking place in a large city. The kicker is that there's at least one in each large city on the continent...and they all lead to the same place, if you use the right key to open the door.

I can work it up using Stronghold Builder's Guide if you like.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 11, 2010)

I would rather not work it up really, the main reason for using a Magic Mansion since its already defined to an extent.  Would cast _guards and wards_ when we leave it btw.


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## Shayuri (Dec 11, 2010)

Oh no, I meant work up the Safe House. That's Thorn's own thing.

I wasn't proposing it as a replacement to your idea. Flying castle is great for a headquarters.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 11, 2010)

second that.

you might want to personalize the mansions, tho.

and portal leading from the safe house to the flying base?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 11, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Oh no, I meant work up the Safe House. That's Thorn's own thing.
> 
> I wasn't proposing it as a replacement to your idea. Flying castle is great for a headquarters.




I got that, don't worry.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 11, 2010)

I guess the flying castle is ok for a ranger. i am not sure where to go on the stronghold builder's guide, though. is there a building budget we go by?


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## fireinthedust (Dec 12, 2010)

after one paper and an exam I'll start this up.

Thanks for being so patient!  

Should we start in with some RP while we wait?


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## WarlockLord (Dec 12, 2010)

Fine by me.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 12, 2010)

never hurts!

BTW i saw your RG: of gentlemen and scoundrels. Is that your M and M game?


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## fireinthedust (Dec 12, 2010)

Scott:  It would be.  Basically at Atomicthinktank they have the Roll Call section where folks do piles of stats for various characters: conversions of anime and comics characters to M&M.  We don't have that here, so I started it in RG.  Those are lists of things I'd like to make.

Note: some of them are for different systems, including M&M 3e (DCA, on sale now), but others will be PATHFINDER (e6 and e20, our game) and Star Wars Saga Edition.

I'll try to add pictures when i post them.  I forget, where was there a Pathfinder character sheet on these boards?  I could use it as a cheat sheet/reference when I'm posting stats.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 12, 2010)

have you tried here?


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## fireinthedust (Dec 12, 2010)

yeah.  I'm thinking maybe the Living PF sheet.  Good call, though.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 15, 2010)

Thread STARTED!


Please read the instructions re: the Argument at the bottom of the (third?) post.  I just want to start this, and get some RP in there.  If we can't do at least that, I might as well be running an Arena!

Thanks for waiting patiently for me, folks.  I'll have a few days in a row to post somewhat regularly: no work, done school, just relaxing


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 16, 2010)

well, i aam doing my best to keep posting. working 58 hrs per week.


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## jackslate45 (Dec 16, 2010)

Here what I was thinking spell wise (this is my first High level game, so comments appreciated)

[sblock=Spells]
Spells Prepared(4/7/7/6/6/6/6/5/5/5, +1 slot 1+ for Domains DC 20+ Level CL 20)
0 Detect Magic, Stabilize, Light, Create Water
1 Divine Favor(d), Bless x3, Divine Favor x1, Protection from evil x2, Comprehend Languages
2 Bless Weapon(d), Blessing of Courage and Life, Lesser Restoration x2, Spiritual Weapon, Weapon of Awe, Blank Spots x2
3 Prayer(d), Prayerx2, Wind Wall, Dispel Magic, Blank Spots x2
4 Magic Vestment (Extended), Holy Smite(d), Divine Power, Blessing of Fervor, Spiritual Ally, Death Ward,  Blank Spot
5 Greater Magic Weapon(Extended) , Righteous Might(d),Quickened Divine Favor, Quickened Bless, Cleanse, Breath of Life, Blank Spot
6 Undeath to Death(d), Dispel Magic (Greater), Heal x2, Quickened Spiritual Weapon, Blank Spots x2
7 Holy Sword(d), Restoration (Greater), Quickened Prayer x2, Blank spots x2
8 Holy Aura(d), Quickened Divine Power, Quickened Spiritual Ally, Quickened Blessing of Fervor, Blank spots x2
9 Gate(d), Heal Mass, Quickened Cleanse, Quickened Righteous Might, Blank Spots x2
[/sblock]

He basically a giant buff bot.  the blank spots are for spells we might need later (raise dead, restoration, random divination spells, SM spells etc etc.)


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## Seraphim2 (Dec 23, 2010)

*Interested.*

This is an awsome story! WarlockLord showed it to me and I was instantly interested. I have an I dea for a character that would also connect with Malacarus. When he was an overlorlord I was his second in command, his right hand man; a summoner. I was always by his side, keeping the men in line. I was also there with all of his defeats. (I was also the one who executed the plan that made Thorn defect. The last words I spoke to her were "Malacarus sends his regards." NOTE: this is just a floating idea) The reason I am not with Malacarus right now is because he wouldn't rather send his men needlessly into danger. (ALSO an idea.) This is my little story on my eidolon: The sommoner raises his arm, palm facing down. The air becomes cold and the light begins to fade. The soldiers look upon him with fear. The sommoner opens his mouth and utters one word: "Awaken." The earth bursts forth and shadows claw at the sky. out of the dark abyss apears two gleaming red eyes. The shadows swirl around them and begin to take shape. Wings as black as night form, spreading wide. A body forms, humonoid in appearence, yet the darkness betrays it;d identity. the face of a dragon-like demon with wicked horns and long sharp nails at the end of clawed hands complete the main summon: Agramon, the demon of Madness.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 23, 2010)

FYI Summoner was refused, or at least fireinthedust wanted to make substantive changes, I originally wanted to play one.


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## Seraphim2 (Dec 23, 2010)

Ah. Well, that's not too much of a problem. I could make the necessary changes to be a conjurer or sorcerer. Whichever fits.


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## Shayuri (Dec 25, 2010)

Alrighty...lemme just settle some confusion on my part. 

Thorn made her save, but I narrated her falling because I evidently misunderstood the situation. I assumed that the save was to avoid the 'crush' damage, but that we all fell regardless because the top of the tower was destroyed. Clearly that's not the case, in hindsight. May I edit my post then?

Second, although the disjunction is targeting three people, it sounds like all of us are included in one area or another, so...okay. Just confirming that, basically. 

Wow...okay, is it too early to consider a different character concept? (^_^)


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 25, 2010)

Of course not! if I am stuck with mine, then you are stuck with yours!

mua ha ha ha ha ha ha!!

Oh my, the dm is starting to rub off on me, eh? 

Merry Christmas Shay !


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 25, 2010)

Best item for high level play?  Luck Blade with 0 wishes 20,000 odd gp, I'd take ten if I could justify it to myself.  "The hell I missed!"  Though most sensible DMs houserule it to one reroll a day anyway.

Merry Christmas folks!


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## fireinthedust (Dec 27, 2010)

Shayuri:  You can land without damage, or decide to be on the battlements, or the stairs; if you could fly, you'd be hovering with Thadeius.

  The save was to avoid the crush + falling.  

Scott:  Yes, yes, eeexcellent!   Muah-hahahahahahahaaaa!   Everybody join us:  Muah-hahahahahhahhaaaa!   From the diaphragm!  And again!


AldernFoxglove:   Amazing idea!  I'll let you use it without said houserule if you don't mind my league of invisible assassins being equipped with them, too.

Anyone else read the economicon?  That series of essays on RPG economics is, I think, delicious food for thought.  Realistically looking at coin weights and the likelihood of having that much cash at any given time... brilliant.  ie: it's unreasonable to expect anyone to make you a magic sword for that much money, it's just not worth it (or something).  Just reminded me of that:  you can't realistically carry more than 15k gp in D&D, except maybe with bags of holding (which then would have certain expenses attached, I'm sure).


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 27, 2010)

Mua ha ha ha, ...erm...uh oh . . . 

* Mua ha ha ha ha ha ha!* no! no no no!! must resist, , , , 

*MUA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!*

ARRRRGGGHHHH! iTS HAPPENING!!! ITS . . . ITS . . . DR. JECKLE/ MR DM!!!!!

(Translation:



Spoiler



I might be getting an adventure idea


)


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 27, 2010)

Max stat to begin 15, gnome gets +2 Charisma - not Int - so lets assume a Sorcerer begins with a 17.  He's 20th level so 5 stat boosts for 22, he's only got 100,000gp to spend which there are vague guidelines for spreading out so lets assume a +4 Charisma Item at best giving us a 26.  That's a ninth level spell DC of 30 for illusion only.

The only spell this really applies to is Weird - which is a waste of time for the sensible spell caster imo - "Hahaha, take a 9th level spell, that errr, gives you two saves - will and fort - and requires you to fail both in order to do anything useful...  What do you mean everyone who has a crappy will has a decent fort, and that there's an eight level spell which will often be cast upon an entire high level party that makes you immune to the spell.  And everyone has to be within 30ft. which is just silly at high levels for it to effect multiple target?  Awww, bum."

Seems perfectly reasonable for a 20th level NPC to me.  Especially one that's obviously been created to focus on illusions - two feats, race, etc.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 28, 2010)

True.  I'd forgotten the NPC wealth by level guidelines & elite array knocked out my hypothetical "start with 18 (racial boost to 20), +5 tome of leadership, +6 cha item" DCs which is what I had in mind for the uber-gnome of death.  I doubt the PCs could resist that casting weird, but thats such a flagrant disregard for the rules that I'll concede on this one.


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## Shayuri (Dec 28, 2010)

Weird and Phantasmal Killer are actually pretty easy to knock down.

They're both Fear spells. Anything that makes you immune to Fear will make you immune to them. They really are rip-off spells. Cool concept, horrible mechanics.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 28, 2010)

Polymorph any object, though - there's a challenge.  

I use them mainly for flavor.  Killing things with nightmares is cool.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 28, 2010)

Agreed its a cool way to kill.  Polymorph any object is scary awesome, but again its okay because its not nearly as bad as dieing - you might be turned into a chair, but at least its cheaply reversible and the wizard has something to sit on while he prepares the spell to restore you.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 28, 2010)

Depends on the semantics.  Spell is so loosely worded I could transmute you to "dead guy" or we could make an argument about using it to resurrect people (dead guy=>living guy).  It's an interesting debate IMO.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 28, 2010)

True, and the transformation would be permanent.  But it does not matter since it would still be reversible.  Break Enchantment would restore you just fine.  A chair or a frisbee is afterall just as dead as a corpse.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 28, 2010)

This does raise the weird question of philosophically, what happens when you transmute a guy back to life.  Yes, he could be killed with a break enchantment, but would it be the same person?

Plot hooks for my real-life game.  If (all of) my players actually wanted plot...


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 28, 2010)

Personally I'd say you never killed him, his soul was part of the transformation and so does not go anywhere, thus it is still in place when he is restored.  In death the soul actually leaves the body and goes somewhere, in polymorph it remains as part of what was transformed into something else.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 28, 2010)

Polymorph any object .. . you are now an outhouse! 

AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH! I failed my save! noooooooooooooooo!


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## WarlockLord (Dec 28, 2010)

Aldern Foxglove said:


> Personally I'd say you never killed him, his soul was part of the transformation and so does not go anywhere, thus it is still in place when he is restored.  In death the soul actually leaves the body and goes somewhere, in polymorph it remains as part of what was transformed into something else.




I mean if you find an already dead guy and transmute dead body => living human.  I think the PF rules state he'd get mental scores of 5 (corpses don't have int scores, etc) but I think that'd be pretty weird.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Dec 29, 2010)

Seems like a good call to me.

Wizard: "So wait I can just cast PAO with all my spell slots until I have formed my own nation!  My own army."

DM: "I suppose..."

Wizard: "Our national motto shall be..."

DM: "Duuuuuh?"


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## fireinthedust (Dec 29, 2010)

Polymorph vs. Resurrection:  Um, no.  In this setting there is a clear afterlife where the soul goes.  You couldn't bring a soul back from there because the spell only transmutes the object/subject who is present, NOT adding any additional features such as a non-present soul.  Were there no souls, it could be argued; but we have clear evidence for the existence of an afterlife (potentially many afterlives).

   In theory you could transform the physical remnants into something that is technically alive; but it would be a magical construct of some sort, or a new entity composed of the same matter.  It would not be the original person, whose essence had gone elsewhere.

Killing:  Nope.  You could make them an inanimate object, like a corpse, but the soul would still be present.  This is the same as if you changed them into a chair.  You could then destroy said object or corpse, but that would not be part of the spell.  A powerful enough dispel effect could bring above-mentioned polymorphed "corpse-object" back to their original form, which would technically be an alive person.  While similar in effect, this is not a resurrection.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 29, 2010)

question:  is the soul an object?   Oooooor  a SUBJECT?


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## Shayuri (Dec 30, 2010)

But you know what?

This would be an awesome way to FAKE death. The polymorphed corpse would test as a dead person to any test except one that sensed the location of the soul...of which I can't think of any offhand.

Then you just have someone dispel the spell later, when the attention's off of you. Presto! Alive again!

Play your cards right, and you can even have a different face than before. Great for BBads who need to "come back" later, or for anyone who wants to avoid paying taxes. 

As for what the soul is...it depends on the spell, and on the "form" the soul is in. Generally though, a soul that's separated from a body is "dead," and would probably be an Object...untargetable by spells that only work on living subjects. But if the soul has manifested as an undead creature, like a ghost or similar, then they'd be targetable as any undead creature is. Similarly, if you voyage to the Outer Planes and encounter souls in physical form, those are creatures. But if you're in the Material Plane and trying to use Discern Location (for example) to find a soul...I'd say treat the soul as an object unless there's convincing reason otherwise.


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## WarlockLord (Dec 30, 2010)

So then how does this work with create greater undead?  If I understand correctly, incoporeal undead are basically souls twisted into undead weapons.  So could we raise a polymorphed corpse's soul then?  Only test I can think of that would work, other than maybe trying a soul bind and noting the success.


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## Shayuri (Dec 30, 2010)

Once a soul has been made into an undead creature, it becomes a creature not an object.

You wouldn't be able to use Create Undead on a person polymorphed into a corpse because it's (technically, by game mechanical terms) not actually dead. Just transformed to appear dead.


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## Scott DeWar (Dec 30, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> But you know what?
> 
> This would be an awesome way to FAKE death. The polymorphed corpse would test as a dead person to any test except one that sensed the location of the soul...of which I can't think of any offhand. [snip]




This _might _have happened, I am not admitting any thing here. In a certain city in our table top game, there might have been a couple of halflings who might have had somewhat larcenous tendencies. If they did indeed exist, then the city thieves guild would have been interested in them. Should one of them have needed to disappear, one just might have had a  dead pig polymorphed into 



Spoiler



Dallik Turnwater


 whereupon said dead pig might possibly be mistakened for 



Spoiler



Dallik Turnwater


, but dead. The other Halfling, possibly one 



Spoiler



Fred Jollypipe


, and with otherworldly skills of the mind (allegedly) might have used said skills to remove oneself from the notice of the guild using a polymorph like ability.

In theory, from A d and d 2nd ed. now the fact that 



Spoiler



Dallik Turnwater


 and 



Spoiler



Fred Jollypipe


 are missing and presumed dead, is purely a coincidence.


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## fireinthedust (Jan 4, 2011)

Ah, here it is.  I was looking for a stat sheet.



Seraphim2 said:


> This is an awsome story! WarlockLord showed it to me and I was instantly interested. I have an I dea for a character that would also connect with Malacarus. When he was an overlorlord I was his second in command, his right hand man; a summoner. I was always by his side, keeping the men in line. I was also there with all of his defeats. (I was also the one who executed the plan that made Thorn defect. The last words I spoke to her were "Malacarus sends his regards." NOTE: this is just a floating idea) The reason I am not with Malacarus right now is because he wouldn't rather send his men needlessly into danger. (ALSO an idea.) This is my little story on my eidolon: The sommoner raises his arm, palm facing down. The air becomes cold and the light begins to fade. The soldiers look upon him with fear. The sommoner opens his mouth and utters one word: "Awaken." The earth bursts forth and shadows claw at the sky. out of the dark abyss apears two gleaming red eyes. The shadows swirl around them and begin to take shape. Wings as black as night form, spreading wide. A body forms, humonoid in appearence, yet the darkness betrays it;d identity. the face of a dragon-like demon with wicked horns and long sharp nails at the end of clawed hands complete the main summon: Agramon, the demon of Madness.





Okay, neat concept.  Two issues:

1)  I know Mal says he wouldn't send his subjects into danger, but we do need him to be unbelieveably villainous, if not evil.  (note Scott laughing brilliantly; I'm hoping for much the same from Mal, maybe some curly moustache growth... just saying).  I'd be more inclined to believe  (well, okay, entertained by) his saying "you stay here, I'll, err, risk my neck with the heroes... stay with the abominations from beyond time and space, where it's, er, safe... (zoink/bamf)"

2)  we're a bit full for now and I'm trying to get my feet under me as a GM, especially for 20th level.  I like the idea, if I was running an evil campaign that would be great.  I'm tempted to bring this fellow on for some rp (though summoner is out for now), but that wouldn't be for a while.  

3)  (rule zero, acouple means three when the DM says so  (jk) ) which is:  if Mal gets a minion it would need to be along the lines of Minion from Megamind:  a little slow, a little trusting, laughs at all his jokes and insists that everything is a good idea.  If he was a summoner, for example, it would be fun to have someone play his eidolon.

So I'm not saying "no" as much as "not yet".

The concept, if you'll notice, is only for classic-concept heroes.  Mal was a bit of a stretch, as a bad guy.  We've also got the redemption hero Thorn, which means that for now conceptually I want to highlight the good guys.

Please feel free to lurk and comment OOC.  Scott was a lurker for a while, who I tracked down and captured for this game (note the chain with an iron ball attached to his ankle, the slightly haunted, feral look in his eye: only the best for my games!).


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## Scott DeWar (Jan 5, 2011)

*clink- drag, clink-drag, clink-drag*

If I keep dragging this cannon ball around, I will have one leg stronger then the other!


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## fireinthedust (Jan 5, 2011)

not as socially paralyzing as one arm stronger than the other.  Just saying.


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## Scott DeWar (Jan 5, 2011)

isn't there some sort of a comic book hero that  suffers from that? a couple of movies . . .   Hellboy, right?


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## Seraphim2 (Jan 5, 2011)

sure


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## fireinthedust (Jan 6, 2011)

and for those movies the governemtn has him locked away.  why?  because some things the public should never learn exists!


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## Scott DeWar (Jan 6, 2011)

But they let him out when the things that go bump in the night need to be bumped back!


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## fireinthedust (Jan 6, 2011)

see?  that proves everything.  There.

Hey, if (Seraphim2, or anyone else) wants to do Star Wars, I've got a spot open in that game.  It's a group of Republic Black Ops (two jedis already, so other PCs needed) during the Clone Wars.  It's going slowly, but new interest would be fun.


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## Seraphim2 (Jan 23, 2011)

*Star wars?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?*

In!!!!!!!!!!


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## fireinthedust (Jan 24, 2011)

Okay cool!  

Before you decide, the thread is "Strike Hard for the Adamant" in the Playing the Game forum.  Read over it, see if you like it, then come up with a character I can add in.

The game is easily a slow one, so be prepared for that.  Get a PC asap, and we'll get you in before combat starts.


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## Scott DeWar (Jan 27, 2011)

You know, when I read this post I actually thought they were talking aboutour thread here:



Joker said:


> There are some practical obstacles getting in the way of that epic feeling:
> 
> _In the past few weeks you have often found yourselves choosing between a bad and a worse course of action.  But seeing where it has led you, you know with certainty the path you must follow.
> Across from you stands the Terror that has blighted this land for years.  In his malicious eyes you see the thousands that died fleeing from him and the thousands more that stood and held their ground.  His end will bring about a new era of peace.
> ...


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## fireinthedust (Jan 27, 2011)

Heh, maybe.  I'm having lots of fun with it, though.  

Also, my answer would be "there are no cheetos, only a hoard of fiendish orcs and a flight of ancient dragons".

Cheetos are so messy.  My group is invested in pizza, burgers, some beer, and other non-hand-sticky foodstuff.  I'm encouraging them to move towards healthy options like wraps and hummus & Pita.


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## Scott DeWar (Jan 27, 2011)

coffee and a burger!


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## fireinthedust (Jan 27, 2011)

what?  Those can't mix well.  (jk)

We have these great burger places near the game here, one being amazing and in a shiesty dive bar (with beer), the other being Hero Burger with fancy condiments for yuppies.  Best milk shakes I can think of.


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## Scott DeWar (Jan 28, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> what?  Those can't mix well.  (jk).




Coffee goes well with anything. just ask me and i will tell you!


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 8, 2011)

ok, there has been a question as to where to sell the daggers. is there a reaason why we cannot sell 1000 to the all seeing eye, 1000 to the dwarves and keep 200 for our own use?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 8, 2011)

Like I said in the IC I vote for the Unseeing Eye, more gold is more gold, and while I have the feeling we will regret it in character, OOC it would be cool to see what they have up their sleeves. Of course I could just be being paranoid, but then its just more money so win-win. Also nothing to stop them buying from the other guys and making NPCs money feels wrong on a deep emotional level to me. 

Scott Dewar: The Unseeing Eye want all of it.  I'll point out that you could simply use part of their greater offer to buy and adamantine you want and that owing to the odd pricing rules it would actually work out cheaper assuming you are intending to create something bulky - Thadeius would be happy to fabricate anything you want though he would need to rest first.

Its probably reasonable to assume this is some kind of special adamantine in some way, but heck if we get cheated we'll still have 3 million gp to cheer us up. And it seems fairly likely we will encounter more of the stuff in anycase.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 8, 2011)

I do realize they want all of it, but wha I am saying, if it seems too good to be true, then there is something special to it and we may want to keep some for our selves, namely 200 lbs of it

My character has the gold to buy that 200 lbs and still enough to but the Bag of holding to carry it.

wait, let me check my math on that .. .. .. .. sorry, check that, only enough to buy about 50 lbs of that. one too many 0's to look at.


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## Shayuri (Feb 8, 2011)

Actually, starmetal is a real thing in D&D 3.5. It was introduced in Complete Arcane, I believe.

It has the physical properties of adamantine (hardness 20, ignores hardness of materials of lesser hardness, etc) but ALSO does some bonus damage to extraplanar creatures if memory serves.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 8, 2011)

Ah, do any of us know its Star Metal? It certainly does not fit the Starmetal description in origin at least - it is a metal that is strongly tied to the material plane according to Complete Arcane.  If it is we are indeed being under paid, by something in the region of 2 million gp. However since I was being a bit cheeky by turning it into 1lb weapons - which maximizes our profits - I think 3 million is a pretty darn reasonable return.

Personally I would rather just take the money and run. Fireinthedust can you tell us if the Unseeing Eye will accepts 200lbs less, etc.?

I'm just salivating over what half a million gp each?


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## WarlockLord (Feb 9, 2011)

I think we should keep a few pounds, just in case it does something awesome.   

Also, Malacarus has a list of scrolls and material components he wants.

Also, I thought we weren't using 3.5 stuff, because of the aforementioned "munchkins"?

EDIT: I, too , read the Economicon and can't help but wonder if we are giving up something valuable which can't be replicated (Cthulhu adamantine) for something we could probably get by chain-binding efreet, i.e. for free and that no one cares about.  FitD DID reference it, after all.


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## Shayuri (Feb 9, 2011)

The Unseeing Eye people called it starmetal.

Whether or not that means it's "official" starmetal, or just that folks in the Unseeing Eye call adamantine starmetal is harder to say.

And honestly, I'd rather not bicker too much either.

3 mil is plenty. I just want to replace my stuff...and perhaps get a better weapon.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 9, 2011)

We could not get it by chain-binding Efreeti because that assumes our DM cannot dress himself and dribbles constantly.  Anyone who allowed that kind of nonsense should rightfully be pelted with rotten fruit for their own idiocy.


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## jackslate45 (Feb 9, 2011)

We encountered something so alien that two of the most powerful wizards in the world have no idea what it is.  And it had such weird properties, including the fast regen + raprid growth.


Xanfire would keep a few pieces on hand just to examine it later, given some free time.  Granted, hes kinda busy to explain all that, but that is what he is thinking right now.

EDIT: about the star metal, I would assume that maybe only Mal would be able to confirm if it was starmetal.  By the sound of it, he has seen something like this before.  It would be like finding obsidian and thinking it was coal.  Also, Starmetal was written into the 3.5 universe, not the pathfinder universe.


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## fireinthedust (Feb 9, 2011)

Hint:  read the Adamantine entry, p154.

You could just sell 1000 to each buyer, but they'll only pay 1 million for them, though I could give you their special banafits for item creation out of that 2 mil total.  The full amounts are for the bulk purchase.

How much would replacing your items from that combat cost?  

And the Unblinking Eye, being Diviners as well as other types of mystics, would eventually know that you'd not sold them the full amount.  The Weaponers wouldn't, though they're not stupid (and you really never know what magic the dwarves can pull out of their sleeves in a pinch, actually).

Mal has never heard of "true starmetal" before.  He only met that one guy.

3.5:  no hints here.  I will be using 3.5 templates and some monsters, though.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 9, 2011)

I vote we sell them all the Unblinking Eye. Its all very well saying we might be able to do something with it, we probably won't. We might encounter more of these creatures and get more of it anyway, seems fairly likely.


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## jackslate45 (Feb 9, 2011)

well now, I feel like an idiot...oh well.  


I would also vote for the Unblinking Eye


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 9, 2011)

I do not see why either of them nee a full 2000 + lbs of adamentine. I would say unblinking eye and all but 25 lbs of it. That 25 lbs would be paid to the party loot at the full 3002 per lb by hedron. They can be happy with 2175 lbs (+/-?).


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## fireinthedust (Feb 9, 2011)

xanfire:  bah, I like your reference to Complete Arcane.  Anyway, you could be right...

Mal:  We need to hash out your nation in the setting.  Did we decide if it was above ground, or (because you're Drow) has it a significant Underdark presence?  And is there a population of Undead (ie: low level, such as zombies or skeletons)?


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## WarlockLord (Feb 10, 2011)

I was thinking Sarusan, as it's the mostly unknown continent.  Above ground, undead laborers/footsoldiers taking over menial jobs (debatable for food, we were working on sanitary undead before they came) and (this is a concept I think is awesome, but YMMV) shadow secret police (who leave people alone mostly unless they catch wind of some major, major revolution.  Freedom of speech is encouraged among the intellectuals, in intellectual circles where it can be safely suppressed from reaching the masses who could revolt.  There are also many, many public spectacles to keep citizens entertained.  

Religion is allowed  if the religion recognizes the secular authority and doesn't require something such as human sacrifice.   Outlawing religions is a dangerous practice leading to feeling against the state, so Mal tries to avoid it whenever possible.  Also, any attempt to purge intelligent citizens (such as undead, goblinoids, kobolds, w/e) because of religion is punishable by death and...enlistment...in the shadow police.

Thoughts?


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## Shayuri (Feb 10, 2011)

Insufficiently evil!


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 10, 2011)

thought: if a criminal was to be sentenced to death, they arre given the choice to join the shade police (or some other creature like that)


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## fireinthedust (Feb 10, 2011)

Sarusan:  Y'know, we could just add a small island continent, say the size of Ireland or Madagascar.

It may not seem sufficiently evil... but we can work on it for sure!  It's a good start with secret police.  Keep in mind: if undead do the menial stuff, what do you keep the human population busy with?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 10, 2011)

Dying?


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## WarlockLord (Feb 11, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Sarusan:  Y'know, we could just add a small island continent, say the size of Ireland or Madagascar.
> 
> It may not seem sufficiently evil... but we can work on it for sure!  It's a good start with secret police.  Keep in mind: if undead do the menial stuff, what do you keep the human population busy with?




Watching the games and living lives of luxury.  That way I can do whatever the hell I want while my mindless undead do all the work, and the humans are too useless/stupid to rebel.  Anyone dissatisfied with this can either join me as a living subordinate or undead minion - their choice.


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## fireinthedust (Feb 11, 2011)

okay, lives of luxury:  the issue is that they're not doing anything with their minds.  if they're not fully engrossed in activity, they'll be looking around at stuff.  In fact, due to all the pandering to their needs, they'll start demanding things be the way they wish.

You may want to encourage drug addiction or MMORPGs.  That way they're too engrossed in supporting the system to tear it down.

Otherwise, I think we've figured out how the prophet took you out and took over the country!


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## WarlockLord (Feb 12, 2011)

Something like that.  Maybe a drugged water supply?  I was thinking mostly spectacles and meaningless competition to keep them engaged so as to not overthrow Mal/thwart his evil world domination schemes/stop whining


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 12, 2011)

sounds like a political statement made:

Be angry at one side or the other, for it the apathetic that are opressed
(or someting like that!)


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## fireinthedust (Feb 13, 2011)

actually, it's a very Drow response: keep the houses busy fighting each other, the drow all live in "luxury" compared to their armies of slaves.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 13, 2011)

I will be finishing up with my games I am in, then I will be off line paruseing the apg and srd looking awt what I can buy. Just how much will we get here?


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## fireinthedust (Feb 14, 2011)

you folks can divide the amount from the Unblinking Eye however you wish.  

Then we can move on.

Xanfire:  let's assume you'll have to work on the Temple crowd another day (for dramatic narrative purposes), to retry with your special abilities next time, along with an RP reason for the HP to believe you.  For now, you can likely pray in Thorn's secret lair.


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## WarlockLord (Feb 14, 2011)

I have a list of things I wish to do, but I'll wait for the loot to be divided first.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 14, 2011)

*OOC:*


there are 6 of us and was there 3 million for the adamentine? (this was the infromation I was looking for) if so that would be 500,000 each.


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## Shayuri (Feb 14, 2011)

Sounds about right. No need for OOC tags here...this is the Talk thread after all. 

Well, that's plenty enough to replace what was lost...and then some.

I wonder if a defense can be contrived vs Disjunction. Perhaps an anti-magic field item...


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 14, 2011)

Shayuri said:


> Sounds about right. No need for OOC tags here...this is the Talk thread after all.
> 
> Well, that's plenty enough to replace what was lost...and then some.
> 
> I wonder if a defense can be contrived vs Disjunction. Perhaps an anti-magic field item...





heh, Too many open tabs at the time.

Would an anti magic sphere prevent disj. from occuring? It would hamper any ranged combat such as spells or magic arrows. the arrows would end up being +1 from mwk and any effect from the bow.


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## Shayuri (Feb 14, 2011)

The disjunction has a chance to breach the sphere, but if it fails then nothing in the sphere is affected. If it breaches, then it's another ginormous page full of Will saves. 

Hmm. Maybe an item that gives a stacking bonus to Will...insight would be good. Thorn can already get Luck in other ways...


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 14, 2011)

Well we have a defense against a single disjunction - Thadeius's immediate action dispel - it just cannot counter 3 at once.  I suggest the best way to counter disjunction are getting rerolls - luck blades - and pumping will saves as much as possible.

Thadeius is going to take a large amount in diamond dust, and most of the rest in metamagic rods - probably.


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## fireinthedust (Feb 14, 2011)

you'd ignore the effects of your magic bow, as they bow is non-magical within the field; you'd only be shooting adamantine arrows (well, adamantine-tipped arrows).  

I'm going to be impartial about it, and not give my opinion on what you should do with your money.  If you do use an anti-magic sphere, I'll let the dice fall as they may.

Not sure if Disjunction would eradicate the sphere, though.  Maybe, maybe not.


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## WarlockLord (Feb 14, 2011)

Contingent antimagic field?  I could put one up...but this screws us all over.

EDIT: Malacarus will take 20,000 gp in gate incense, a scroll of create greater undead, a scroll of shades, a scroll of dimensional anchor, and 100,000 gp in diamond dust.  The rest he'll take in gold.  Oh, and 20,000 gp of black onyx.


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## jackslate45 (Feb 15, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Xanfire:  let's assume you'll have to work on the Temple crowd another day (for dramatic narrative purposes), to retry with your special abilities next time, along with an RP reason for the HP to believe you.  For now, you can likely pray in Thorn's secret lair.




Works for me.  I will post up the updated spell list hopefully soon.

Unless I get called away again...


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 15, 2011)

Can we get yays or neighs for chipping in for the Lords Banner of Victory? +2 morale bonus for everyone to hit, to saves, and to skills for 12,500gp each (75,000 total) and does not take up a slot - see IC thread for details. I think it is a bargain myself.


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## Shayuri (Feb 15, 2011)

It sounds like The Most Expensive Target Ever to me. 

Does it count as wielded? A big thing like that standing alone would be a cinch to just...knock over, or set on fire...

Now if it's wielded rather than placed, that's another issue entirely.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 15, 2011)

ok, this is for comparison only. i am just thinking here

forget what i had before.

I see some possible ideas on the subject of rings.


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## WarlockLord (Feb 15, 2011)

If I don't have to carry it, maybe.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 15, 2011)

I am fine with Thadeius carrying it, he will probably keep an Unseen Servant on hand in case he needs to have a free hand.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 16, 2011)

Duration is 1 hour per level.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 16, 2011)

Shayuri: Yes Thadeius would wield it if nobody else wishes to.


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## Shayuri (Feb 17, 2011)

Very well. I can spare 12.5 grand out of 500grand.


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## WarlockLord (Feb 17, 2011)

Mal will chip in 12.5, but he's going to expect a refund once he goes to jail.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 17, 2011)

No refunds! and Hedron will fork out the 12,500 gp


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 17, 2011)

Groovy, if its cool with fireinthedust I think Falcons - or at least hawk/eagle-like birds are common enough on standards, so we ought to be able to get something that fits the old group name.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 17, 2011)

Aldern Foxglove said:


> Groovy, if its cool with fireinthedust I think Falcons - or at least *hawk/eagle-like birds* are common enough.




or at least raptor-esque

I know I have not made my wish list, but I have soe pain issues when I get home from work that leaves me unable to concentrate well. I will endevor to have that list up soon. 

I am trying to understand the rules on magic item 'creation' to see how much a particular ring would have cost to be made.

Here is what I am to understand:


			
				srd said:
			
		

> Not sure if this applies:
> 
> Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.




I wish a ring of energy control that will work on any of the 5 types of energy, but usable in this fashion 5 times per day



			
				resist energy said:
			
		

> School abjuration; Level cleric 2, druid 2, paladin 2, ranger
> 1, sorcerer/wizard 2
> 
> Duration 10 min./level
> ...




Base cost of the ring
spell : wizard 2, req wizard 11 to have max effect:
2*11*2000 = 44000
this is for use activated or continuous


To be continued


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 17, 2011)

Now if i understand my first quote right, 
primary effect: resist fire energy 44,000 gp
secondary effect: resist acid energy 33,000 gp
tercentenary effect: resist cold energy 22,000 gp
Quadritary effect: Resist force energy 22,000 gp
quintintary effect: Resist electrical energy 22,000 gp
for a total of  143,000 gp


Description: 
this band of interwoven rings of copper, silver, white gold, yellow gold and platinum is always of the purest form, never tarnished. 
As a swift action, this ring can be activated to resist 30 points of any of the 5 of the 7 types of energy. What is not covered is negative and positive energy types.

During the walkabouts in the coldest reaches or the hottest barrens, one never is uncomfortable. However, food and drink are still needed to sustain life in any environ.

Is this ring on hand, by any possibility? (Preferably Hedron's hand)


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## Shayuri (Feb 17, 2011)

Er...ya know, there's a Ring of Universal Energy Resistance (greater) that costs like...308k and gives resist 30 to everything all at once. It's in the SRD under the Epic rules.

Er, it doesn't protect against Force. Yer on yer own for that.

But it does protect against sonics.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 17, 2011)

I Have not read anything under the epic stuff. i was thinking that it was off limits.

FITD; would that item be off limits?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 17, 2011)

My assumption is that epic and heavily customized items would be off limits, but it is certainly worth asking.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 18, 2011)

I figured some wizard somewhere would want to have all kinds of protection.mybe one had the resist energy spell times 5 then wnet protection from energy times 5 and has thie aformentioned ring for sale.


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## fireinthedust (Feb 18, 2011)

Nope, nothing Epic.  In fact, realistically, the Unblinking Eye shouldn't have anything over 16th CL (though I'll be nice this one time, if you really want something).  Think generic, Core Rulebook items.  Nothing Custom, nothing Epic.

If you want that right, however, you can research it's location and go get it.  If it's an epic item, expect an epic threat and challenge.  


Falcons/Eagles:  Sure.  You could have one made specifically for the Broken Eagles.  Things like this would need to be custom made, though, or you'd have to hope you get lucky.  If you take someone else's standard... there could be issues with them, or some other people who don't like seeing their colors flown.  Example: Captain Jack Sparrow sees you're using his flag... then hides while Davey Jones sails towards it, and therefore towards *you*.  Jack giggles to himself, then sneaks off.


Custom:  This can be asked for, but you'll need to wait the duration of the crafting of that item, and any others you want that maker to make for you.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 18, 2011)

Well, according to my math of 143,000 gp cost then, i am looking at 143days to make. Not going to happen. Caster level would only need to be 11th, so that requirment is met. We do not have 143 days to sit around so, any thing that needs to be up graded or made that I would want seems moot.  Kinda sucks ya know.

Just so i know i am undeerstanding this correctly, Here is a thought expirament.
Longbow of Hedron the silent

This bow is a +5 enchanted weapon with bane, distance and flaming burst for a total enchantment of +9. cost for all of that is 9 * 9 * 2000 = 162,000 gp

to upgrade to (and i actually wish I could do this!)  spell storing: slow (afffects any target that is successfully hit with an arrow from this bow) it is andittional enchantment enhancement of +1. this makes the weapon a total base balue of 10 * 10 * 2000 = 200,000 gp, a difference of 38,000 gp which takes 38 days to accomplish. 
That is 38 days without his weapon. NOt. going. to. happen.

if we were using the craft point system, then it could be done 'overnight' so to speak. Most do not like that system, even those in LEW who end up using is don't particularly like it.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 18, 2011)

Well, according to my math of 143,000 gp cost then, i am looking at 143days to make. Not going to happen. Caster level would only need to be 11th, so that requirment is met. We do not have 143 days to sit around so, any thing that needs to be up graded or made that I would want seems moot.  Kinda sucks ya know.

Just so i know i am undeerstanding this correctly, Here is a thought expirament.
Longbow of Hedron the silent

This bow is a +5 enchanted weapon with bane, distance and flaming burst for a total enchantment of +9. cost for all of that is 9 * 9 * 2000 = 162,000 gp

to upgrade to (and i actually wish I could do this!)  spell storing: slow (afffects any target that is successfully hit with an arrow from this bow) it is andittional enchantment enhancement of +1. this makes the weapon a total base balue of 10 * 10 * 2000 = 200,000 gp, a difference of 38,000 gp which takes 38 days to accomplish. 
That is 38 days without his weapon. NOt. going. to. happen.

if we were using the craft point system, then it could be done 'overnight' so to speak. Most do not like that system, even those in LEW who end up using is don't particularly like it.

I could order (lets see: adamentine arrow: 3001 per 50 arrows, +2 enchantment = 7001 gp per 50 arrows) 80 of these arros for 560,800 gp I guess, and the first chance I get a feat I can take Master crafter and add a first through third level ranger spell to each arrow.

further thought idea: purchase (adamentine arrow with +1 enchantment = 5001 gp each) * 130 of these = 650 gp. obtain Feat: mastercraftsman, and enchant first through third level spell on each arrow when I get a chance. could do 25 of those per full day.


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## WarlockLord (Feb 18, 2011)

Malacarus could make it as a wondrous item...but he'd be pretty hard to convince, seeing as you made a living beating him up.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 18, 2011)

But the hurdle i am trying to leap over is what to do about the time factor!!!!!

ARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!


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## fireinthedust (Feb 18, 2011)

The time factor is a balancing factor.  Otherwise the whole group will have super piles of items, saves that can't be fumbled, and attacks that kill *everything* automatically (swords of True Strike?)

If you can figure out a way to breach the time gap, then dandy.  


The ring wouldn't be a Wondrous item, nor would a weapon.  Those have their own feats for crafting them.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 18, 2011)

silly me. i forgot that at 5th level i took master crafts man. That means i can make a normal admentine arrow into an arrow of slaying!!! Mua ha ha ha ha ha!!!!


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## fireinthedust (Feb 19, 2011)

how long will that take?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 19, 2011)

If I am not mistaken it takes the same time as normal magic item crafting, just allows you to do it without spellcasting and substitute a craft skill for spellcraft.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 19, 2011)

Does it need to be continueous, or can you do a day or two at a time?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 19, 2011)

It does not need to be continuous, but you can only work on one item at a time.

[sblock=Magic Item Creation]


			
				PFSRD said:
			
		

> The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by +5.
> The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).
> A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used on the under-construction item are wasted.



[/sblock]


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 19, 2011)

hmmmm, this gives me ideas!


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 28, 2011)

Shaiyuri:

Scimitar: 15 gp

weapon weight: 4 lbs At 3 000 per lb = 12 000 for adamentine

+2 weapon and wounding = +4 weapon
4 * 4 * 2 000 Gp = 32,000

44,015 gp total

and not it is time to get ready for work.


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## Shayuri (Feb 28, 2011)

lol...Scott....

Read the posts. I am asking about the price of PUNCTURING. The special ability of a Rapier of PUNCTURING.

Not Wounding. I -get- wounding. It is a known quality. I also get adamantine, and the enhancement bonuses. Those are understood by me.

The Puncturing ability is, however, unique, and so I wanted the GM to throw in and let me know if it was available for a scimitar...and if so, how much?

Sorry for the strenuous tones, but I was failing abjectly to communicate with previous posts.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 28, 2011)

er, um, oops.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 28, 2011)

Personally as a DM I would allow it only for piercing weapons with the Wounding Property - like weapon properties in the MIC where some required other properties on the weapon first - and treat it as a +1 enhancement, but available at a minimum of +4 total weapon enhancement.


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 28, 2011)

I took a look and it lists the spell Harm as part of the crafting. I would be my opinion that the same, spell: harm , could be placed on a scimitar.

the spell is level 6 so minimum level of caster is cleric 11, but the rapier CL is 13 so a spell cast by a lvl 13 cleric.

of the magicing cost of 50,000, I would say that 8000 is the +2 enchantment, the other 42 000 is the spell, or somewher about like that.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 28, 2011)

I would point out the meaning of the word puncturing . Not that I care too much, just giving my opinion, at this level its hard for anything to be broken, I would be much more fussed at lower levels.


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## Shayuri (Feb 28, 2011)

Okay, so call it "slicing" then. 

It doesn't have to be the same in flavor text...its the damage I'm after. I'm trying to avoid being the character who tinks away uselessly while everyone else is doing hundreds of damage at a poke.

The ability to do Con damage makes Thorn dangerous, at least three times per day. It's a start.


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## fireinthedust (Feb 28, 2011)

wading in:  I would normally be strict as a GM (like for my RL game) but we're 20th level and the Wizard just cast Wish several times(!) to raise his Con before a fight... and just, y'know, let me know in passing.

I don't have an issue *for this game only*.  Other games I'm inclined to be more strict: why did the designers opt only for slashing, considering P is typical for Sneak Attack?


So I'll allow it.


Scott:  good math job, tho.  Thanks, you rock.


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## Shayuri (Mar 1, 2011)

Appreciated, but how shall it be priced? As a +1 ability?


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## Aldern Foxglove (Mar 1, 2011)

As mentioned in the IC thread Thadeius is going to extended Mind Blank Thorn - 48 hours - just before he rests. He will Mind Blank someone else tomorrow meaning he and two others are covered, could Mal (sorry I genuinely can never remember how to spell the full name) cover the rest of the party? Be nice if we were all Mind Blanked.


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## WarlockLord (Mar 1, 2011)

Yep.  If I read the posts right, we are going to hang out prepping for a day prior to actually popping into the astral plane, so i'll just extend them per your suggestion, put up a contingency and maybe planar bind something.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 1, 2011)

As a ranger i am not too helpful here, even more of a hinderence unless we encounter a being of conflict. Then i guess I will have to resign my self to being one of those "100 hp damage per strike" kind of peoples.

**siiiigh**


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## Shayuri (Mar 1, 2011)

Dude, you got me beat. I top out at like...50, and that's WITH sneak attack.


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## fireinthedust (Mar 1, 2011)

Well... pshaw, I say to you!  We've a website *filled* with helpful hints and cheap tricks for *both* your classes.  Surely there is something out there for you both.

And what about Vorpal weapons?  Can't you Sneak Attack with a Vorpal weapon?  Vorpal Scimitar with Improved Critical, bam: lots of beheadings/insta-kills.

Meh, it'll work out.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Mar 1, 2011)

I think the difference is that Scott is talking about a vital strike use - and thus loosing the ability to full attack. I suspect you could get up to a hundred easy enough with a full attack.


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## Shayuri (Mar 2, 2011)

Actually, I built my rogue to take advantage of Vital Strike and Spring Attack.

Thorn jumps out of the shadows, hits you hard, then vanishes again with Hide In Plain Sight.

Ideally.

And Vorpal only triggers on a natural 20, regardless of the crit threshold of the weapon/user. Plus, it's a +5 enhancement.

Allowing the Con damage thingy will help a lot though.

Out of curiosity, what website do you mean? I haven't seen much in the way of tips or tricks for Pathfinder rogues or Shadowdancers.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 2, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> As a ranger i am not too helpful here, even more of a hinderence unless we encounter a being of conflict. Then i guess I will have to resign my self to being one of those "100 hp damage per strike" kind of peoples.
> 
> [SIZE=]**siiiigh**[/size]






Shayuri said:


> Dude, you got me beat. I top out at like...50, and that's WITH sneak attack.






Aldern Foxglove said:


> I think the difference is that Scott is talking about a vital strike use - and thus loosing the ability to full attack. I suspect you could get up to a hundred easy enough with a full attack.




Actually i was making light humor of Shai's comment about those who make 100 hp attacks.

..--~However~-..

I just did some checking and Hedorn could do 35 *4 hp damage if he were to hit all four times with his iterative attacks and max out, if the target was affected by fire, and if he were fighting a giant.

if the target was an undead giant it would be another 12*4.
so: 1d8+9+2d6+2d6+1d6 for a non crit with an average of 4.5+9+7+3.5=24/ attack * 4 attacks = 96 average.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 2, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> how long will that take?




from the pdf srd I have this on Slayer arrow: greater

Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, finger of death
(slaying arrow) or heightened finger of death (greater
slaying arrow); Cost 1,144 gp 5 sp (slaying arrow) or 2,032
gp (greater slaying arrow)

so either 5 full days or 21 quarter days after determining what is the sub type of his particular target.

i never got the answer to the question that I asked several times when we met the diplomat, or what ever he called himself.

Was he an undead, or outsider?

[sblock=speceial craft notes]
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/craft.html#craft
add +10 to dc to show for faster  craft rate
base: DC 15
mighty +4: +8 to DC
total :33
Skill: +30; take ten for 'roll' of 40
comp long bow, mighty +4 base cost: 500 gp; Raw materials: 166.6 gp(1666 SP)
progress of 1 week: roll of 40 * dc 33 = 1320/ wk or 188/full day of work or 47sp of progress per adventuring day
[/sblock]


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 3, 2011)

Ok, I have a bit of information I am compiling for FITD reguarding a PM I went him.

You aske for a link to a claim that you can do a 2 hour work day on a magic item.

Aldron Foxglove posted a quote, but you asked for a link and I am still trying to find that link. Bear with me boss.

Edit: here is the link
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html#magic-item-creation
the information is found in the last paragraph above the magic item gp cost chart. It speaks of the adventuring day spent with creation.

Only 2 hours of time is done during 4 yours of work, but there is some stuff is being made.


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## fireinthedust (Mar 4, 2011)

Found it!  Didn't notice that before.  Nice.

Okay!


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 5, 2011)

knowing a fact because someone told me is probably the hardest to prove. I want to prove it true so bad, but i have no idea where the source is.

pearl of wisdom for the week.


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## Thaven (Mar 26, 2011)

This sounds likwe a really great game!


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## Shayuri (Mar 26, 2011)

Hurgh! I knew I forgot something!

Need to post...heee!


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## Rathan (Mar 27, 2011)

Is this game looking for any more players? and can you find open source PF docs?.... I regretfully know not much about it...


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 27, 2011)

Pathfinder_OGC

this is a supurb on line source. As to recruiting, i do not know.


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## Thaven (Mar 27, 2011)

just read the ingame stuff; all 27 pages. sooooo cool!


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 27, 2011)

And we have only just begun!


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## fireinthedust (Mar 27, 2011)

Recruitment:  actually, as Lughart hasn't posted in a while, I'll need to email him.  I've got a friend who wanted to join; he's big into Pathfinder thanks to our RL game, and I'm introducing him to pbp (which is fair, as he's one of the people who takes me through the rules and explains how stuff works).  

We're otherwise full for now, sadly.


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## Thaven (Mar 27, 2011)

Hey comrades! I'm FitD's friend; speak of the devil and he shall appear, I guess! 

Though I'm not really that bad. I'm mostly cute and cuddly like a sexy teddy bear. hehe. 

Anyway, I've loved reading your stuff, it's been really entertaining so far. 

This will be my first play by post game and I'm really looking forward to it!


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 27, 2011)

Here is the rg thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/297939-fitds-e20-pathfinder.html#post5398703

if you have questions, post them here, someone will answer them for you. 

a ffew things that you may wonder aobut is 

*bold*
_italics_ or 
underlined text

for these commands you use the square brackets [ and ] with the corrosponding letter for the command (b, i or u) to start the effect. to end it you place '/' and the same letter with in the [brackets] and that should do the trick.

click on the button to open:

[sblock=this is a spoilerblock]
the brackets  with sblock and /sblock at the end will take care of the basic spoiler block. if you want to direct it to someone or give it a title, then add = 'blah blah blah' to the first command within the first command
[
sblock=(place title here)
]

and of course close it with just
 [
/sblock
]
with no spaces at all.
[/sblock]

if you want to do something you see another person do, then hit the quote button and you can see the command script, including color hexadecimal code.

confused yet?


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## Rathan (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks anyways fire... I will probably be joining an old game I was in before than never got off the ground first time around. I just love high level games as the rp tends to be a bit better as a characters background tends to be more flushed as you can really set everything he or she has been through over his or her years of adventuring... I'll be keeping an eye on this thread though!


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## Thaven (Mar 27, 2011)

*It seems pretty simple. Thanks for the help!*

I appreciate it. 

[sblock] I've rolled up a fighter. Just putting the finishing touches on him with FitDs help.[/sblock]

edit: thanks! now i just gotta figure out the dice! 

edit 2: woo! first roll is 20! good start


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 27, 2011)

except you wasted a perfectly good roll.


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## Thaven (Mar 28, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> except you wasted a perfectly good roll.




Worth it to figure out the dice system! Still haven't mastered it. Is there a way to combine rolls? Can you do all your iterative attacks in one sequence or do you do them one at a time, hitting roll one more each time?


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## jackslate45 (Mar 28, 2011)

I found no easy way to do iterative attacks.  I always end up rolling the dice each time individually.


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## fireinthedust (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm seriously considering letting you guys just use invisiblecastle.com

as a GM, I can't roll a million minion attacks and damage rolls one page load at a time.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 29, 2011)

I like the enworld dice roller as it seems like it has a better algorythum to it.


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## fireinthedust (Mar 30, 2011)

either one is good; I'm just going to use IC, for minions.  Whatever works.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 30, 2011)

you could roll like 25 d 20 and read them off as you need them from your profile tab, just add the modifierrs as appropiate to the npc-minion.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/scott-dewar.html


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## Thaven (Mar 31, 2011)

My character sheet is up in the Rogue's Gallery for those interested!


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## Scott DeWar (May 5, 2011)

Rhun, here is the ooc thread


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## jackslate45 (May 5, 2011)

are we summoning [MENTION=29098]Rhun[/MENTION]?


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## Rhun (May 5, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> are we summoning [MENTION=29098]Rhun[/MENTION]?




I'm here. Gonna take a bit to read through all the info and put together a Level 20 PC, assuming fireinthedust wants me.


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## Scott DeWar (May 18, 2011)

as per request, I am making an ooc comment here instead of the recruitment thread.



Shayuri said:


> Thorn grimaced as the balor's whip snapped so close behind her that she could feel the heat of its flame, the tiny pinpricks of sparks showering over her shoulders. She didn't spare it a glance though. Before her was the real foe: Malacarus.






fireinthedust said:


> Hedron:  Since you stayed with Thad, you're going to be hit by the Balor first before you can attack.  Did he hit your AC with any of those attacks?  And are you therefore grappled by any of the whip attacks?




--Would this be the attacks in post 462? If so, those were sent toward Thorn and that was all it was said about it. I am more then a bit confused there. Shai also responded to that post .  Also, you told me to go ahead make an attack before this post.--



Thaven said:


> *OOC:*
> 
> 
> Who was affected?






WarlockLord said:


> OOC: I put as much of the party as possible.  I'd probably move up to turn it into a 60 ft radius circle, which I guess could hit everyone, and I'd avoid my balor buddy, so probably everyone except Thad.




--I am hanging onto thad, so that would mean I am missed by those effects as well.

is kind of hard to tell what is and what is not without a battle map. This being 3d in the astral makes it that much harder.--


----------



## WarlockLord (May 18, 2011)

Also, restating here - i believe Mal's exhaust wave went off before a lot of your actions, so we might want to take a look at how the str & dex penalties hurt everyone.  For instance, the balor hits Thorn if she's affected, maybe Rook did less damage, etc.


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## Thaven (May 18, 2011)

The way I saw the map in my head was that Xanfire and Rook were off to one side of the battle. 

Thorn was off in one direction (near the Balor) and so was Thad. Hedron may have been close enough to be affected. 

My thinking is that you could have targeted Rook and Xanfire (and possibly Hedron) or Thorn and Thad (and possibly Hedron).

The way I see it, you couldn't have gotten Thorn + Xanfire/Rook. Since everyone was flying off in different directions, it's doubtful Thorn was within 60 of Rook and Xan.

100% you could have gotten both Rook and Xanfire though since Rook purposely was close to Xanfire, to protect him from the Balor.

Hedron will need to figure out where he was in relation to everybody else to determine if he was affected.

Thats my 2 cents (2.09 cents US).


----------



## jackslate45 (May 18, 2011)

From my interpretations, Mal summoned the Balor to slaughter Thad, and he was going to kill Xanfire personally.  I figured that only Rook/Xanfire were caught up in it. Thats my 2 cents at any rate.  US cents.


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## Scott DeWar (May 18, 2011)

Hedron has had Thad under one arm this whole time. he ended up near the balor and since Mal did not want to affect the balor, he would not have affected those right next to it such as Thad, Hedron and Thorn. The balor tried to slam Hedron/Thad into Thorn as thorn was right next to the balor attacking it at that time-The Balor had tried to attack Thorn with long sword and whip.


----------



## WarlockLord (May 18, 2011)

So then I guess everyone except Thorn, Hedron, & Thad got hit by the waves.  Except the balor has a ten-foot reach, pretty sure Mal could have got a 60-foot cone within that.  If he can get you all in a 60 foot radius, he will.


----------



## Thaven (May 18, 2011)

Alright, so Xan and Rook are exhausted. 

Fire, reduce Rook's damage by 21. So from 336 to 315. 

I will adjust my stats accordingly.

The Balor is going to completely ignore me now, btw, with this change in damage.


----------



## fireinthedust (May 18, 2011)

Map:  Yeah, I can't do those.  RL game, sure, but not online.  Dammit Jim, I'm a Dungeon Master, not a cartographer!

Position:   everyone was spread out alot in the last round of the Swarm fight.  Fairly evenly and in all directions.  
1) Rook and Xanfire are in one area.  
2) Thorn started in another and *fell* towards the Balor for her attack.  
3) Hedron in his area *fell* to catch Thad and hung onto him and rolled an attack (last round), and this round is being pulled towards the Balor.  
4) Mal is in another area, near the Balor, because they started together (called, not summoned, so we're good for the Balor's summoning powers; however, he's powerful enough that he doesn't take orders (sorry), and won't hold still for a round summoning a marilith, unless he can get some distance from the others first... which likely means teleport a mile away, summon for a round, then teleport back, so three round delay at most).
5)  Thad is in one area, and last round Hedron caught him.

This round we account for the movements in the field, towards Thad or the Balor:

Hedron is with Thad, being moved towards the balor
Thorn moved by the Balor and Mal
Xanfire and Rook 

so two areas:  Xanfire and Rook,  or Thorn/balor/Mal, with Hedron/Thad moving from XR to TBM.

I'm going to rule that Xanfire and Rook are exhausted on Mal's turn, the others are scattered across the field.  This isn't a dungeon room, it's a vast expanse of 3D Astral sky.


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## fireinthedust (May 18, 2011)

However:  the moment things happen determines what happens.


1)  Swarm vanishes away
2)  Thorn attacks the Balor (dmg + Str loss = -1 on attack, so the Balor misses on his AoO on Thorn), and moves on by via Falling.
3)  Mal casts waves of Exhaustion on Xanfire and Rook.  
3)  (same init as Mal) the Balor pulls Thad towards him with Telekinesis(quickened) and full attacks Hedron (reduce each attack roll by 1, actually, due to -1 from Str loss).  Let me know which ones hit you, Hedron, and if you're grappled.
4)  Hedron gets to make his attacks on the Balor, or break out of the whip grapple if he's grappled.
5)  Xanfire Gates in a Solar (Michael)
6)  Rook moves next to the Balor and smacks him around a bit.


Does that settle things?


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2011)

Excellent! That clarifies things nicely.

A question, since it looks like it's going to come up...

Is Wish, used that way, a targeted spell? If yes, can it target a subject the caster can't see? I think normally they can't, but Wish could be an exception....

Barring that, can Spell Tuning turn it?


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## jackslate45 (May 18, 2011)

Indeed it does thanks.

Michael's aura only blocks level 3 spells and below.  So Xanfire does lose 2 levels.

I beleve it is the Balor's Turn now.


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## WarlockLord (May 18, 2011)

Wish will find you.

"A wish can lift one creature per caster level from *anywhere on any plane* and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane *regardless of local conditions.* "

Not sure how it interacts with spell turning.


EDIT: My caster level is 21 (orange prism ioun stone) so the balor will take orders.


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## Thaven (May 18, 2011)

Mal: 







*OOC:*


 You should be happy the Balor disagreed with you last round. If he didn't, he would have done nothing, instead of whacking the crap out of Hedron.

Though I'd be curious to see if any revelation will be made that will make all this worrying about what the Balor is going to do worth the effort.


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## Thaven (May 18, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> Indeed it does thanks.
> 
> Michael's aura only blocks level 3 spells and below.  So Xanfire does lose 2 levels.
> 
> I beleve it is the Balor's Turn now.




OOC; When does the Solar go?

Also, it seems spell turning would reflect wish if the roll works out for you, Thorn. IE 50/50 chance. It can be reflected on a 3 or 4 on a D4.


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2011)

What roll?


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## Thaven (May 18, 2011)

The 1d4+6 roll to determine how many levels of spells spell turning can effect from spell turning. Or, you probably have a ring, in which case it doesn't matter if you had spell turning up.


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2011)

It's the ring, yes... Do you have to 'put it up' though? I thought the spell turning effect was constantly on (up to 3/day at least), though you could elect whether or not to use it on any particular incoming spell or not.

If not, then Thorn may be hosed.

Oh well...it'll give me a chance to build a character better suited to epic play.


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## jackslate45 (May 18, 2011)

Michael has access to wish 1/day and miracle 1/day.  "MICHAEL!  I WISH THAT MALACARUS NEVER DID THAT!" and if he does not, I preform a miracle!

Besides, you would not die in 6 seconds(1 round):

1 mile up is 5240 feet

The weight of gravity is 32.2 ft/sec squared.

32ft/second sq * 6 sec * 6 sq = 32 * 36 = 1152 feet


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2011)

It's not the fall that would kill me, its the negative energy/lack of air, and my inability to escape the plane.

For that matter, I don't think there even IS a 'ground' in the Negative Energy Plane. I think it's pretty much just a giant void, if memory serves.

Also, I want to say that I am in no way attacking WarlockLord...he's doing what's in-character and it's all fine. But reading that 'travel' function of Wish, it's a little disquieting what can be done with it. The people you're sending to other planes don't even have to be there with you. There's nothing except a supply of diamonds to stop Malacarus from just sitting in his den, and every half hour casting Wish: "I wish the Broken Eagles were all in the Negative Material Plane."

We could get out each time, sure...but there'd be no way to stop him. I guess we could start wishing him away too...but at that point the game is just becoming a farcical comedy, which is not what any of us want it to be.

I think, for Wish and perhaps Gate, the experience costs in 3.5 might have been better left in. That really made sure you were SERIOUS when you cast the spell. You couldn't just spam it to mess with people. You'd be hosing yourself too.


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## Scott DeWar (May 18, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> However:  the moment things happen determines what happens.
> 
> 
> 3)  (same init as Mal) the Balor pulls Thad towards him with Telekinesis(quickened) and full attacks Hedron (reduce each attack roll by 1, actually, due to -1 from Str loss).  Let me know which ones hit you, Hedron, and if you're grappled.
> ...




so, if I understand correctly, the whip was used against Thorn, missing, and the longsword is against Hedron? because he is moved through a threatened hex with the telekinesis he has one attack of opportunity? Am I correct?

If this is indeed correct, then the following attacks from it hit

42/31/34 doing 22+17+22 damage for a total of 61 hp.
42/40/31 for the whip doing 8+4+8+6+8+6=40 hp

except there is a minus 1 to strength bonus, so therefore a minus 1 to each hit (-6)

95 total this round.

re grapple: Ring of freedom of movement-no grapple condition


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## WarlockLord (May 19, 2011)

Shayuri said:


> I think, for Wish and perhaps Gate, the experience costs in 3.5 might have been better left in. That really made sure you were SERIOUS when you cast the spell. You couldn't just spam it to mess with people. You'd be hosing yourself too.




I have to agree.  Except honestly, maybe just drop gate.  Seriously, google "Frank Trollman", "gate", and "taquitos" for a full list of stupid abuses.


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

Well I think the limitation was imposed by Fire "In ten words or less tell me what your wish is." Perhaps he recognized the pain caused by the lack of XP now for Wish?


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## fireinthedust (May 19, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> so, if I understand correctly, the whip was used against Thorn, missing, and the longsword is against Hedron? because he is moved through a threatened hex with the telekinesis he has one attack of opportunity? Am I correct?





No.

The whip was used in an AoO on Thorn and missed her.  She moved by and is on the other side of the Balor.  This was part of her action, not the Balor's action.

On *its* turn it full-attacked Hedron, who'd been pulled by a quickened action (telekinesis).  The full attack includes both the 4 longsword attacks and the 3 whip attacks, with the whip attacks *also* attempting a grapple.

And since you have the ring of freedom of movement, you're not grappled?  Cool!



Wish in 10 words:  Naw, that's just always been my experience with Wish:  sure, you get a wish, but you have to WORD the wish.  As in, "I wish for more wishes" or what have you.  In this case Mal has to word the wish, and keep it short (10 words or less, I guess).  Sort of a buyer beware deal.

And if Mal wanted to truly screw the group, plane shift to the plane of Earth, to where there are loads of diamonds, and use those.  Not infinite in supply, but one sizeable pocket would do just fine.   ...whoops.  (sorry Eagles!)

The Negative Energy Plane... I'm not sure if it's a void or a place charged with what 4e would call "necrotic" energy (which sounded fun in the 4e phb).


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## WarlockLord (May 19, 2011)

Hmm.  I'd kinda like to get your opinion on the void first/ground thing first.  Very well, here's the wording.  Would Malacarus be able to use another of his many languages to say multiple words in one?  (Also, do I have to preface it with I wish?)

"Teleport Rook, Thorn, Hedron to the Negative Energy Plane immediately."

But my group's understanding of wishes is pretty much that everything on the list works without a hitch, and if you go off the list, literalness ensues.  Sorry about that.

Also, about the Earth plane: yeah, we're planar binding earth elementals to get us some bling.


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

WarlockLord said:


> Hmm.  I'd kinda like to get your opinion on the void first/ground thing first.  Very well, here's the wording.  Would Malacarus be able to use another of his many languages to say multiple words in one?  (Also, do I have to preface it with I wish?)
> 
> "Teleport Rook, Thorn, Hedron to the Negative Energy Plane immediately."
> 
> ...




And the DM here asked ya to word it. Sall good.

fire, since malacarus never met rook in game, you'll need to determine whether or not he is able to say 'oh that's rook, send him away
Immediatelly for if he needs to waste words on describing rook as 'the two bladed foe fighting my gated balor"

Potentially saving hedron and thorn from being affected.

Ponder on that and let us know.


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## Shayuri (May 19, 2011)

You do realize that falling damage maxes out at 20 dice, right?

Even if she's a mile up and there is a ground, she'll only take 20 dice damage. That hurts, but it's far short of what's required to kill her.

And that's assuming that she can't get her flying carpet out before she hits the ground.


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## fireinthedust (May 19, 2011)

Rook's name:  Hrm, good question.  Although if he doesn't know it, I'll let him re-word the wish (possibly to include the word "and").

Dratted pbp means punctuation isn't something I can ignore as I can in RL:   "who's Rook Thornhedron? (wish fizzle)"    Nope, can't pull that GM-trickery...

I guess the question would be (objectively) would Rook and Mal know each other.  In theory Rook knows the Broken Eagles.  He may have adventured with them before, too.  However, that also means Mal could know all about Rook, seeing as Mal has been the campaign villain for some time.  Also, Rook is 20th level, and the campaign assumes usually that the majority of life on the planet is 6th level or so (ie: hordes of goblins, only a few dragons, and most of them aren't CR20).  

I'll rule that Rook is famous enough to be known of by Mal.  Whether they've met is another thing, however...

1)  does Mal have Divination as a school he can cast from?  ergo Scrying is an option.
2)  Does Rook have "worked with the Broken Eagles" in his history?


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

I'm happy to accept the Mal could have heard of Rook; the question becomes in 12 seconds would be Mal able to identify him readily based on that to say "oh I know exactly who that is" this is his name, begone. 

Not sure that's plausible. 

No, Rook never had it in his history as having worked with the Broken Eagles. To him, the Emperor needs no one else's help solving the Empire's problems. In some ways, deep down, he begrudges the Eagles for the Emperor's request. (That being that Rook should join the eagles to help solve this mystery of why the attempt on his life was made, etc etc).


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## jackslate45 (May 19, 2011)

From the short converstaions between Xanfire and Rook, it sounds like the only Broken eagle who met Rook was Xanfire, and it would have been years ago.  I am sure that more will come once we destroy Mr. Balor.

As for knowing a name, consider the following.  Most adventures know of Drizzit in the Forgotten realms universe, but would a powerful wizard who suddenly meets a drow wielding two blades know immediately that it was Drizzit?  In 12 seconds?


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## fireinthedust (May 19, 2011)

fair enough.  Although it's unlikely an Emperor can exist in a vacuum in a fantasy setting like this one; let me read up on the Empire.  What's the full name of the Empire again?

Okay, so it comes down to whether Mal would have bothered with the Empire.

I guess that means we should know what region of Golarion (the setting) most of the campaign happened in.  Absalom is what I know of so far.  Any other nations?


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

Yeah Xan, totally. More revelations to come, certainly.

And I agree with you completely. It's not about whether Mal would know of Rook; it's certainly possible he could. As you say the empire (Kelesh) doesn't exist in a vacuum, nobody is suggesting it does. 

But Xan's hit on the crux of the issue. If he had the information, which he could if you say he could, would he be able to take the information and translate it into recognition in 12 seconds in the midst of a battle? Doubtful.

That's all.


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## Scott DeWar (May 19, 2011)

wow. all this discussion for a wish-Probably why most dm's hate that spell.

Well, Still it is good to hammer out the details here in civility like it is!


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## WarlockLord (May 19, 2011)

Mal has divination.  Remember the Contact Other Plane?  It'd be pretty plausible for him to use his magic to keep track of any other high-level characters, as they could be a threat to him.

Also: Drizz't would be recognized, he has purple eyes.

Re; Shayuri: the falling damage wasn't the issue.  It was the funness of the Negative Energy Plane.  The falling was just a bonus unpleasantry.


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## Shayuri (May 19, 2011)

Arr, that's what I thought (re: funness). In which case it won't make much difference if it's a void or has a ground...the funness is all the same.

For some reason I thought Shadowdancers got a Shadow Walk power...but they don't. So...shucks. 

Oh well. If she dies I can just make a spellcaster. Perhaps a witch...Hm.


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

Rook is not as famous as Drizzt, obviously, nor possessing any such definitive features such as purple eyes. 

I just don't think it's plausible to name Rook in the time alotted. Happy to get ported to the negative energy plane; just saying it's going to cost more than 1 word.


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

Re: Spell turning

Thorn, you need to command it to be active to reflect the next 9 levels of spells cast at you.

However, if you thought it was automatic, I am *sure* before the fight started you had an opportunity to use a standard to activate it.

Something you would have done if you'd known it required it. That's subject to DM's discretion though. So you gotta wait for a call from fire on that.


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## WarlockLord (May 19, 2011)

If fire doesn't say that I know rook, I'll revise the wording.  He'll probably just stay here then.


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## fireinthedust (May 19, 2011)

Pro:  Rook's 20th level, and that's huge.
Pro:  he's the Emperor of Kalesh's personal bodyguard, and Mal is an evil emperor/peer/rival of Kalesh, so he'd likely have studied his rival in detail (example: Cormyr ruled by Azoun 4; Azoun's bodyguard is Vangerdahast the wizard, approx level 16 in the FR Grey Box; I've never gamed in Cormyr)
pro:  Ridiculously high Int, so likely can remember who Rook is.

Con:  Astral Plane in the middle of a battle
Con:  Far away, and Rook is just some guy in armor
Con:  Drow prefer the dark?
Con:  Rook just kinda showed up out of nowhere, so triggering the memory in 12 seconds seems hard... to us non-Int 25 types.

Pro:  if I was watching an action film like the Expendables, and suddenly Greg Kinnear showed up (ie: Rook = A-list actor)
Con:  If I was in FR fighting Drizzt, and a white bearded Wizard showed up, I'd have to see Cormyr's flag to think it was anyone other than Elminster or Khelban.

Pro: is Rook wearing the empire's symbol could tell Mal who he is
Con:  is Drow vision good enough to spot the symbol of the Empire from across the Astral Plane, on a "field" of battle littered with the many corpses of the alien creatures of the swarm between him and Rook?


I gotta say I'm torn! 

Thaven:  is Rook wearing the emblem of the Empire?  

Mal:  can you make a Perception check for me please!









*OOC:*


And you know what?  I'm having a FANTASTIC time with this!  This kind of stuff is what high level games are made for!  I'm seriously geeking out about this!


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## jackslate45 (May 19, 2011)

on a somewhat related note, when  I get around to casting miracle, is there a similar 10 word limit to casting it?

EDIT: and i just realized I have a -5 to hit things right now /cry.


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## Shayuri (May 19, 2011)

I'm not really concerned about it, though I thank you for the suggestions. 

Thorn's Will save is pretty decent. If that fails, well, she was definitely far from pulling her weight so far in the game. Frankly, I made some fundamental mistakes in designing her. This is my first high level pathfinder character, and I didn't put enough thought into my feats and abilities.

So if she dies, I'm okay with that. Fresh start. Clean slate.


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

No. He's wearing no identifying markings. It wouldn't make sense! He's on a stealth mission given to him personally by the emperor. 

As I see it he's completely incognito and will remain that way until he returns to the Empire.


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## fireinthedust (May 19, 2011)

Hah@!  No giving up so easily.  I never give up on characters, unless I hate the group.

Thorn's a cool concept.  And she's what the game needed.  Who would have expected party betrayal?  I certainly didn't.


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## fireinthedust (May 19, 2011)

Fair enough on Rook.

Okay, I'll rule that Mal doesn't know Rook.  He's not advertising who he is, Mal is busy, so 12 seconds isn't enough in this instance.

Mal: please rephrase the Wish.  And yes, "I Wish" would be nice.


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## Thaven (May 19, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> EDIT: and i just realized I have a -5 to hit things right now /cry.




HAH. It could be worse! lol.


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## WarlockLord (May 19, 2011)

I'll change the wish substantially.

"I wish Xanfire, Thorn, and Hedron would die immediately."

There we go.  Sufficiently clear, and I don't think its on the list, but as we're doing free-form wishing, why not.  Pretty sure WoTC ruled this as a save, so yeah.  I can't fit "I wish" and "Negative Energy Plane" in 10 words.


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## fireinthedust (May 19, 2011)

...Oh dear.  

Hrm... I suppose it's similar to Power Word Kill, Slay Living, and Symbol of Death...

Let's post that in the IC thread when it comes up, then.


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## Shayuri (May 19, 2011)

It's closest to Wail of the Banshee (multitarget death spell), but that's a 9th level spell specifically dedicated for that effect.

Were it my game, I'd rule a Wish for killing someone is basically a Wish that's emulating Finger of Death or similar. But it's not, so...alrighty.

My question is this:

In the Astral Plane magic is enhanced. Does this apply only to spellcasting, or does it also apply to Spell-Like Abilities?

EDIT - Nevermind; I looked up the Astral plane and yes, it seems SLA's are affected as well.

...groovy.

*coughs*

I, uh, take it back about Thorn's performance in combat being lackluster.

I just wasn't using her correctly before.

Now I understand.


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## WarlockLord (May 20, 2011)

I'd throw Wail of the Banshee, but pathfinder nerfed it for no discernable reason.  Wail of the Banshee (blockable by death ward & scarab of protection) is wrong, but wish teleports to space are A-OK!


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## Shayuri (May 20, 2011)

Well, surely a Wish to die, if allowed, would gain the Death descriptor and also be blockable by Death Ward and so on...

Oh I see, it's not a save-or-die anymore.

Interesting!


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## fireinthedust (May 20, 2011)

"I wish Xanfire, Thorn and Hedron into the Sun's heart"
"I wish X/T/H imprisoned for all time"
"I wish XTH to be blind and mute"
"I wish XTH to forget who they are"
"I wish X to dive into a sphere of Annihilation"
"I wish XTH joined my cause"

See?  All good wishes.  Man, I should play this game... I'd be so good at it!


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## Shayuri (May 20, 2011)

BOO!


WarlockLord, well-played sir! I offer my hand to you in respect.

I wish you could have seen me before posting, as I frantically scanned the Pathfinder SRD trying to find ways to enough damage in a single round...and then as I stressed over the dice rolls...cuz I knew if Thorn couldn't seal the deal, it'd be her ass on your action.


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## WarlockLord (May 20, 2011)

You too.  I wasn't sure where your shadow companion was (was that removed in Pathfinder) went.  Guess I found out.  Plus, yeah, if you can see through illusions and melee Mal, he had no defenses.  Next time I'll get you all, but well played guys.  

The last one I didn't think of, fitd.  I'll use it in another campaign. 

Also, it's payback for the lich in the guardhouse, if you recall my first botched campaign.  Lessons to a first-time DM.

EDIT: Ok, the clone gives Mal two permanent negative levels, which should be pretty easy to remove.  Is it alright if Mal has a backup spellbook (at least) to go with his clone body, or the swarm-things brought back his stuff or something?  Because as a high level wizard, he'd copy his spellbook.


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## Shayuri (May 20, 2011)

I actually haven't used Thorn's shadow companion yet. They're a tad too vulnerable, and even at this level only do 1d6 Str damage with a very tepid attack bonus. 

Might be useful sometime, but too hard to keep around for most fights.


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## Thaven (May 20, 2011)

WOO lookit at that loot! Money money money money money.

LOL.

I'd say sorry Mal, but I wouldn't mean it. I needz gold bad.

Thorn, you seriously need to prevent Malacarus' body from falling too far. We need his phat lewtz.

Do not make me run away from the Balor to catch his body (provoking an AOO) 'cause I totally will. LOL


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## jackslate45 (May 20, 2011)

WarlockLord, I was seriously scared there for a minute.  Good job!

And good job Shayrui for killing him.

On that note, Con time.  I doubt Xan will be up, but if so Ill be able to post Sunday


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## Shayuri (May 20, 2011)

Astral plane has no gravity unless you will it. Mal's body can't will anymore, so to him...zero G.

So no falling.

That said, the dire tiger can watch him. It's no good against demons anyway.


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## Scott DeWar (May 20, 2011)

All I can say is *WHEW!*


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## WarlockLord (May 23, 2011)

Now that the team has taken all my possessions, is it OK if I have a backup magic item stash hidden with my clone?  I'd need at least my spellbook, which as a high-level wizard i'd surely have duplicated.


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## Scott DeWar (May 24, 2011)

nope. (J/K)


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## fireinthedust (May 24, 2011)

I'll answer that question in a new MALACARUS ONLY thread.

well, until/unless we get some other characters joining us.


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## Thaven (May 24, 2011)

Loot pls. 

lol.


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## fireinthedust (May 24, 2011)

Malacarus:  please write up the list of carried items you kept on your person.  The survivors require it


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## Shayuri (May 24, 2011)

He has it already.

It's in his character writeup in the Rogue's Gallery.

"Possessions: Headband of Vast Intelligence +6, orange prism ioun stone, tome of clear thought +5 (read at level 20), 21,000 gp black onyx gems, 101,000 gp diamond dust, 20,000 gp incense (gate component), magic jar focus, scrying focus, 2 true seeing ointments, 2 symbol of death components, spell component pouch, shapechange crown,
blessed book (symbol of death cast on it, triggers when touched), cloak of resistance +5, scarab of protection (12 charges remain), ring of protection +5,
ring of spell turning, handy haversack, greater rod of quicken, greater rod of empowerment, greater rod of maximize, sustaining spoon, contingency focus, 346275 gp

Staff of Malacarus: 10 charges, contains the following spells: greater teleport (1 charge), plane shift(1 charge), greater planar binding(1 charge), mass suggestion(1 charge).
Custom crafted, widely recognized and feared. Price: 63,000 (bought at full market price to represent crafting a while ago)"

It's reasonable to assume the Gate component is spent to call the Balor.

I also think it's reasonable to assume that he wasn't carrying the full 346,275gp on his person when he died...that much cash, he'd probably have most of it squirreled away, and only a smaller "spending wallet" on his person. Specifics are between Mal and the GM, of course.


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## Thaven (May 24, 2011)

Very reasonable suggestion. Either way with his gear we should each pocket a cool 80-100k.

Thanks, Evil Mal! You're greaaaaaaaaaaat! (Tony the tiger voice.) hehe


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## Scott DeWar (May 24, 2011)

You guys are awful. profiting off a pc death. tsk, tsk, tsk.


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## Shayuri (May 24, 2011)

He started it!


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## Scott DeWar (May 24, 2011)

on a side note, I think I told FITD That I would tell what I believe is 1e and 2e method of astral movement: it was based off intelligence as to one's movement. You 'thought' yourself forward. movement = intelligence score. Basically in 3.x terms, for every pointof Int you would move 5 feet.


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## Thaven (May 24, 2011)

Yes he started it by being evil. Then summoning a Balor to chop off our heads! We deserve a token of his appreciation for killing him quickly. heh


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## WarlockLord (May 24, 2011)

Next time I'm rigging all my stuff to explode.


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## jackslate45 (May 24, 2011)

Xanfire is quite happy to borrow the rods, diamond dust, and the ring of protection if no one needs them.


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## Thaven (May 25, 2011)

WarlockLord said:


> Next time I'm rigging all my stuff to explode.




You should feel good, Mal. We're gonna pawn your stuff off so we can buy items that will serve the greater good!


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## Scott DeWar (May 25, 2011)

and he can use the back channels to buy them back at a slightly inflated price of 200%.


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## Herobizkit (May 25, 2011)

Where IS the Rogue's Gallery, anyhoo?

NM, found it: http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/297939-fitds-e20-pathfinder.html


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## Scott DeWar (May 26, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> Where IS the Rogue's Gallery, anyhoo?
> 
> NM, found it: http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/297939-fitds-e20-pathfinder.html




You mean  this  rogues gallery? i have no idea where it is.


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## fireinthedust (May 26, 2011)

Gold:  Actually he's got a Handy Haversack.  That's several bags of holding, enough to carry that much gold.

Keep in mind he buggered off in the middle of the night from his MASSIVE EVIL EMPIRE which had been taken from him (he said).  These are just the items he could grab, with a couple urns of gold, he could fit into a handy haversack.

Gate component:  yeah, that's gone.

Movement:  in PF you lot are falling... so unless everyone is on the carpet with Thorn, you're hurtling towards the adventure site as we speak.


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## fireinthedust (May 26, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> You mean this rogues gallery? i have no idea where it is.





Keep looking, I'm sure it'll turn up.


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## Herobizkit (May 26, 2011)

[MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION], did you get a chance to look at the Bard alternative classes, specifically the Magician?  I have my sights now set on that one.

Bottom line, I don't want to create a 20th-level PC only to have to re-do him to suit the campaign.


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## Thaven (May 26, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Movement:  in PF you lot are falling... so unless everyone is on the carpet with Thorn, you're hurtling towards the adventure site as we speak.




I have wings. I'm hovering.


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## Scott DeWar (May 26, 2011)

hurtle hurtle hurtle. .. .. .. ..


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## Thaven (May 26, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Gold:  Actually he's got a Handy Haversack.  That's several bags of holding, enough to carry that much gold.
> 
> Keep in mind he buggered off in the middle of the night from his MASSIVE EVIL EMPIRE which had been taken from him (he said).  These are just the items he could grab, with a couple urns of gold, he could fit into a handy haversack.
> 
> ...




I am so in love with our DM right now.

I have pictures of Donald Trump as a drow dancing through my head, gleefully dancing around a fire, chanting "money money money. monneeeeey."


----------



## Thaven (May 27, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> [MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION], did you get a chance to look at the Bard alternative classes, specifically the Magician?  I have my sights now set on that one.
> 
> Bottom line, I don't want to create a 20th-level PC only to have to re-do him to suit the campaign.




Have I mentioned I love bards?


----------



## Herobizkit (May 27, 2011)

You did, but apparently the jury is still out.


----------



## fireinthedust (May 27, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> @fireinthedust , did you get a chance to look at the Bard alternative classes, specifically the Magician?  I have my sights now set on that one.
> 
> Bottom line, I don't want to create a 20th-level PC only to have to re-do him to suit the campaign.




Mmm...  Well, Thad was a master counter-speller.  But I don't see the point of playing a Bard who gives up Bardic music/performance style abilities.  Still, I suppose that's your business.  As long as it works in-game, eh?


----------



## Herobizkit (May 27, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Mmm...  Well, Thad was a master counter-speller.  But I don't see the point of playing a Bard who gives up Bardic music/performance style abilities.  Still, I suppose that's your business.  As long as it works in-game, eh?



Exhibit A: _Dweomercraft (Su)_: A magician can use performance to manipulate magical energies. Allies of the magician gain a +1 bonus on caster level checks, concentration  checks, and attack rolls with spells and spell-like abilities. This  bonus increases by +1 at 5th level and every six levels thereafter.

+4 boost to magical abilities of the party... yummy.

Exhibit B: At 2nd level and every four levels thereafter, a magician can add one  spell to his spells known from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting  class. The spell must be of a level he can cast.

It's not much, but more spells = more spells.

Basically, I'm a more mage-y Bard.  Toss in Halfling for race, and I'm your typical short, country bumpkin who wanted to be a mage...


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## Scott DeWar (May 27, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> Basically, I'm a more mage-y Bard.  Toss in Halfling for race, and I'm your typical short, country bumpkin who wanted to be a mage...



its Willow!! he's a peck!


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## Thaven (May 27, 2011)

I just read magician. Lose inspire courage? 

Ouch.


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## Herobizkit (May 27, 2011)

nah, it's only +4 to melee hit and damage.  I thought our party was heavy on the spellcasters.


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## Thaven (May 28, 2011)

Fighter, Ranger, Ninja Rogue, Cleric. Maybe a wizard if Thad comes back. 

Inspire Courage is a big loss. That's my view; partially selfish based on group makeup, but also partially because I think the relative value of the magician ability is less. Also selfishly, +4/+4 is the difference between me one rounding that Balor and not. lol.

Getting extra spells on your bard list is nice though. It's a trade off.


----------



## jackslate45 (May 28, 2011)

Both can be very useful though.  +4 to caster level checks means against SR, which is basically everything in game.  +4 to hit is obvious enough.


I enjoyed the counterspell aspect of the magician though:

Spell Suppression (Su): A 8th level, a magician can use performance to counter the spells of his foes. Once the bard begins using this performance, he tracks the number of rounds it has been in use. While performing, as an immediate action, he can attempt to counter any spell that he can identify using Spellcraft, so long as that spell’s level is equal or less than the total number of rounds he has been performing spell suppression. The attempt to counter the spell is made as if using dispel magic, using the bard’s level as the caster level. If successful, the bardic performance immediately ends. This ability requires audible components.

This performance replaces dirge of doom.

The biggest problem is the spell round requirements, as most fights that last 9 rounds means death for us.


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## Herobizkit (May 28, 2011)

Well, poo.  I thought we were mostly casters.  In which case, I should take the Arcane Duelist option and then buff everyone's weapons.   Again, tho, need the thumbs up from the Big Man,  @fireinthedust .


----------



## Thaven (Jun 1, 2011)

Pewpew!

So seriously I think we need to approach this 3d fort cautiously but I really have no clue on the best way to do that. I am sure there are some nasty guys in there.


----------



## fireinthedust (Jun 2, 2011)

Hedron is just falling towards it, so unless you pick him up, I'm sure he'll give us all a good idea of what's there to be found.


----------



## Thaven (Jun 3, 2011)

Can I use my wings and divebomb stylez and try and catch him before he hits the Island?


----------



## Shayuri (Jun 3, 2011)

Hmm yes...or could he ride Thorn's carpet, at least temporarily?


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 3, 2011)

Shayuri said:


> Hmm yes...or could he ride Thorn's carpet, at least temporarily?




make it a smoother more happy fall!


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## Thaven (Jun 5, 2011)

Its less the damage I worry about and more about losing the element of surprise. 

Though the swarm may have signalled our appearance; don't know.


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 5, 2011)

Thaven said:


> Its less the damage I worry about and more about losing the element of surprise.
> 
> Though the swarm may have signalled our appearance; don't know.




good point, though I really doubt that we have any element of surprise. I am pretty sure i will end up with : "brace for impact"


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## Thaven (Jun 10, 2011)

Did we ever make a decision on [MENTION=29098]Rhun[/MENTION] or [MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION], [MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION] ?

Are they joining our merry band? I think Rhun had a q for you about his bard. Did that get sorted out?


----------



## Herobizkit (Jun 10, 2011)

I think my eyes were bigger than my stomach on this one.  I'm-a give it to [MENTION=29098]Rhun[/MENTION].


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## Thaven (Jun 11, 2011)

It wasn't an either or 

C'mon! It'll be fun. heh


----------



## Scott DeWar (Jun 11, 2011)

You KnoW You  WanT to JoiN us. PleAse JoiN us.


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## fireinthedust (Jun 11, 2011)

The bard I was okay with, I think.  Weird choice, but whatever at this point.  

I'm good for both.  We started with two higher than we've got right now.  And, if either of you want, you can use the PCs of the other players: stats already done, etc.


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## Thaven (Jun 11, 2011)

Bard is a weird choice? BARD IS AMAZING. Shiet.

To help things along, I can help with design, feat choices etc [MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION].

Whatever I can do to help


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## Herobizkit (Jun 11, 2011)

Suddenly, I feel like I want to join you... the biggest hurdle is, well, character design.

I forgot that this character was going to be a straight 20-level Bard.  Magician was vetoed, so Arcane Duelist was my next option.


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## fireinthedust (Jun 11, 2011)

no no no, the meta-magic bard.  Neat.  And I've got to be willing to try new things.  So yeah, VARIENT bard is weird.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 12, 2011)

[MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION]: My meta-magic bard was vetoed out, so I've gone with the Arcane Duelist variant.


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## WarlockLord (Jun 12, 2011)

[MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION]: What's up with team evil?


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## fireinthedust (Jun 16, 2011)

Team Evil:  so far no takers.  Really, it sucks, but I can't get players for you when none apply.   Would you want to take on a different PC, then, who is *not* team evil, and keep playing?  

Herobizkit:  Woooo!   Okay, when can you start?


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## WarlockLord (Jun 16, 2011)

Yeah, sure.  Could Mal become a recurring villain. then?  I'll make a non-evil spellcaster, myabe a wizard as we seem to have none.


----------



## Herobizkit (Jun 17, 2011)

[MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION]: I'm working in concert with [MENTION=6644]Thaven[/MENTION], who is schooling me on a decent 20-level build.  How much 'math' are you going to want to see for this?


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## Thaven (Jun 18, 2011)

The bard will be amazeballs!


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## fireinthedust (Jun 19, 2011)

Mmmm, amazeballs do sound good...  Show me everything!  Or as much as I'll need for the 20-level build.  Thaven knows his way around amazeballs, and if he's showing you a thing or three, it should be educational for all of us.  --err, uh, Character sheets.

(cough: football, masculinity, bareknuckle fighting, cheerleaders, sports cars : cough cough)

Mal:  Go for it.  Make whoever you decide would be fun; I'll work around class choices somehow, so just have fun... and go Sword & Sorcery/Classic D&D styles on this one, like how the other PCs had to.


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## Thaven (Jun 19, 2011)

well...if you want to see EVERYTHING...LOL

The bard will be great. And of course we can show you whatever you need to see.  

I'll leave the big reveal to Hero, though. His character.


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## WarlockLord (Jun 19, 2011)

Hmm, not sure whom to make this time.  Maybe an enchanter ex-con man, forced to step up and save the world?  He's under construction.

EDIT: Hey, there's a pathfinder diabolist class.  Maybe I could be a lawful neutral person forced to use evil devils to save the world (aren't you guys trying to recruit the devils anyway)


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## Thaven (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm sensing a pattern in your chars, WL...lol


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## WarlockLord (Jun 20, 2011)

If you said, "dark wizards", you are correct.

Because not using evil magic just isn't as cool.

(I was originally going to stat up a blight druid, but I looked through their spell list and wasn't impressed by the higher level spells.)


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 20, 2011)

I was going to say just 'dark characters' in general, personally


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## WarlockLord (Jun 20, 2011)

It's a hobby.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 21, 2011)

*Varnaag Thomorn
*
Half-Orc Bard 18/Dragon Disciple 2 
Init +6; Senses darkvision; Perception +29

Defense

AC 40 (10+ 3 dexterity + 13 armor+ 1 sacred+ 1 insight+ 1 luck +5  protection +6 natural); Touch 21; Flat-Footed 37; +5 mithral full plate  of heavy fortification and +5 light animated mithril shield (not active,  not included in stats)
HP 308 (144 level + 24 level + 20 toughness + 120 con)
Fort +21; Ref +23; Will +21
Defensive Abilities ; DR ; Immune ; Resist ; SR 

Offense

Speed 20 feet (20 feet fly on magic carpet)
Space 5; Reach 5

Melee +33/+28/+23 +5 holy shocking corrosive burst adamantine falchion 2d4+24/15-20 and +27 bite, 1d6+19

Special Attacks power attack, spells

Statistics

Str 36 (+13), Dex 16 (+3), Con 22 (+6), Int 14 (+2), Wis 13 (+1), Cha 24 (+8)

Base Atk +14; CMB 28 (+32 Disarm); CMD 41;

Feats Arcane Strike (AD B), Combat Casting (AD B), Combat Expertise,  Craft Magical Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Disarming Strike,  Disruptive (AD B), Greater Disarm, Greater Penetrating Strike (AD B),  Heavy Armor Proficiency (AD B), Improved Critical Falchion,  Improved  Disarm, Intimidating Prowess, Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor  Proficiency (AD B) Penetrating Strike (AD B), Power Attack, Spellbreaker  (AD B), Toughness (DD B), Weapon Focus Falchion, Weapon Proficiency  Falchion (HO B)

Skills Acrobatics +28, Bluff +32, Knowledge Arcana +23, Knowledge Planes  +25, Intimidate +47, Perception +29, Perform Oratory +32, Spellcraft  +25, Use Magic Device +34; 

Languages common, draconic, orc

SQ spells, bardic performance 52/per day(rallying cry, distraction,  fascinate, inspire courage, inspire competence, bladethirst, dirge of  doom, inspire greatness, soothing performance, frightening tune, mass  bladethirst), arcane bond, arcane armor

Combat Gear  +5 holy shocking corrosive burst adamantine falchion 2d4+24/15-20

 Other Gear belt of physical perfection +6, amulet of natural armor +5,  bag of holding type IV, carpet of flying, shirt of resistance +5,  headband of mental prowess (wis/cha) +6, bottle of air, +1 insight AC  ioun stone, +1 luck ac ioun stone, +1 sacred ac ioun stone, +3 manual of  strength, +3 tome of charisma, +2 manual of constitution, +1 tome of  intelligence, 3rd level pearl of power (4), stone of insightful luck,  stone of sacred luck, luckstone, luck blade, +5 mithral full plate of  heavy fortification, +5 ring of protection, +5 animated light mithril  shield, eyes of the eagle, robe of permanent alter self, masterwork  falchion (x2), circlet of persuasion, gloves of death ward 1/day,  bracers of true seeing 2/day, 5 scrolls of heal, boots of elvenkind,  cloak of etherealness 3850 gp

Spells per day 7/7/7/7/7/6/5

Spells Known 6/6/6/6/6/5/5 DC 18+level

0) Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, Light, Message, Read Magic
1) Grease, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Feather Fall, Silent Image, Undetectable Alignment
2) Alter Self, Blur Mirror Image, Rage, Calm Emotions, Pyrotechnics
3) Haste, Glibness, Displacement, Good Hope, See Invisibility, Cure Serious Wounds
4) Cure Critical Wounds, Break Enchantment, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Locate Creature
5) Greater Heroism, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Shadow Walk, Greater Dispel Magic, Mislead
6) Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Analyze Dweomer, Heroes Feast, Sympathetic Vibration, Find the Path

 Armor: +5 mithral full plate of heavy fortification
Belt: belt of physical perfection +6
Body: robe of permanent alter self
Chest: shirt of resistance +5
Eyes: eyes of the eagle
Feet: boots of elvenkind
Hands: gloves of death ward 1/day
Head: circlet of persuasion
Headband: headband of mental prowess (wis/cha)
Neck: amulet of natural armor +5
Ring: +5 ring of protection
Ring: ring of counterspells (greater dispel magic)
Shield: +5 animated light mithril shield (inactive)
Shoulders: cloak of etherealness
Wrist: bracers of true seeing 2/day

[MENTION=51930]fireinthedust[/MENTION]: this guy is 100% complete and ready to play.


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## Shayuri (Jun 21, 2011)

I haven't crunched numbers but a couple of things jumped out at me as I read over your item list.

Certain items share slots. Robes and armor, for example, are mutually exclusive. You can have one or the other. Not both (Bracers of Armor are okay with robes though).

You also have a headband of mental perfection and a circlet of persuasion. Can't use them both. They have the same slot.


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## Thaven (Jun 21, 2011)

The items are okay.

PF page 459 has all of the slots listed.

Armor and Robe aren't mutally exclusive. Because Armor is one slot and body (Robe) is another. 

Likewise a headband is worn in the headband slot and a circlet is worn on the head.


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## fireinthedust (Jun 21, 2011)

Mal: Mmm... no.  No dark wizards who play with fiends, this time.  I'd actually like a good alignment, though I don't mind a dark-themed race.  Tiefling might work, for example, or dhampyr.  Let's try a different concept.  Maybe even an elemental-theme?  Or a really well-designed Monk?
    also, whoever this is absolutely MUST be the greatest of the great.  No con men who decided to step up:  stepping up implies they aren't already there.  This is a 20th level game: they're there by definition.

That's double for Herobizkit: remember, you're already the master of whateveritisyoudo.  

And both of you should have met the Broken Eagles already, and possibly be a reserve member in good standing.

Mal: in fact, think of a character who *HATES* Malacarus >  I'm going to work on that guy and see what I can do to use him to the max.


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## Shayuri (Jun 21, 2011)

Thaven said:


> The items are okay.
> 
> PF page 459 has all of the slots listed.
> 
> ...




Thaven, that makes no sense. 

A headband "slot" is the Head slot. They'e the same. Just like armor technically uses the body slot. Another way to think of it is that robes are "armor" for people who don't actually wear armor like mages and monks. It uses their otherwise useless 'armor' slot.

Unless Pathfinder completely rewrote the item slot rules that is. Hm, perhaps I should doublecheck.

Edit - Ignominy! It seems I fail to win the internet.

My apologies, Thaven. Pathfinder did indeed rewrite the magic item slots.


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## fireinthedust (Jun 22, 2011)

Thorn:  Yeeeah, Thaven has this habit of being right about this stuff.  I think I've gotten him, like, once on this stuff, but I'm unsure of the subject matter or the time frame, so it could be delusions via those last vestiges of my pride he hasn't scoured off the cover of his copy of the Core book. (oy).  Still, it's important to keep him on his toes.  ...maybe I was DMing... it could have been those skeletons made using the necrotic burst thing... oh well.


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## Thaven (Jun 22, 2011)

haha Thorn, don't worry about it. I shoulda just said right off the bat that PF had changed the slots; I knew you were thinking 3.5 

And FitD, hrmph! You're the DM. You're always right! 

*collects your pride and puts it in a jar for later*


----------



## fireinthedust (Jun 23, 2011)

Thaven said:


> haha Thorn, don't worry about it. I shoulda just said right off the bat that PF had changed the slots; I knew you were thinking 3.5
> 
> And FitD, hrmph! You're the DM. You're always right!
> 
> *collects your pride and puts it in a jar for later*




(OOOooooohhh...*)


*sound of pride being put in a jar.


----------



## Thaven (Jun 25, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> (OOOooooohhh...*)
> 
> 
> *sound of pride being put in a jar.




[MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION]

In case you were wondering that's the sound of amazeballs


----------



## Herobizkit (Jun 25, 2011)

LOL!  It's so refreshing to see a DM put in his place.


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## jackslate45 (Jun 25, 2011)

till he makes rocks fall and everyone dies.


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 26, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> till he makes rocks fall and everyone dies.




Wait, this is tomb of horrors???


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## fireinthedust (Jun 27, 2011)

Hey!  

Also:  Hey!

Also:  Pfft, Tomb of Horrors got nothin' on me!  Though I will admit this is reasonably more laid back than ToH, simply because of time constraints.  I suppose I *could* come up with some devilish (hint) traps, but it'd have to be in context.  Granted, none of you know what's up with this Asteroid...


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## Thaven (Jun 28, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Hey!
> 
> Also:  Hey!
> 
> Also:  Pfft, Tomb of Horrors got nothin' on me!  Though I will admit this is reasonably more laid back than ToH, simply because of time constraints.  I suppose I *could* come up with some devilish (hint) traps, but it'd have to be in context.  Granted, none of you know what's up with this Asteroid...




I think rook is planning on dimension dooring up to those gargoyle things so he can get a better look att the green mist and what's going on there. What's the worst that can happen? Hehe

Besides hopefully he can survive one round. After that round hopefully he can get out.


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 28, 2011)

Hedron will probably have his bow and arrow out. upon seing what is seen though , I may change the type of arrow.


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## WarlockLord (Jun 28, 2011)

I'd have to do some more research on this, but would you allow Dreamscarred Press' psionics system for Pathfinder?  I'd like to play a heroic mind flayer telepath who is allergic to brains but survives on his ring of sustenance.  Unfortunately, he acquired the ring from Mal..and it turns out it's cursed.   So now he's not so much worried about the abominations as getting someone to remove the curse from his ring, cure his brain allergy (so he can eat cows or something) or both. 

Either that or I'll try tricking out a sorceror who freezes people.


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 28, 2011)

you have a dark and convoluted mind


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## Thaven (Jun 29, 2011)

That is an agressive character.


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 29, 2011)

Can you imagine another type to hate mal? cursed to never be able to eat your favorite and most beneficial food?


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## Thaven (Jun 29, 2011)

You should play a Sorceror named Joe. He was born on a farm and used his magic skills to enhance his father's animal husbandry. Then pow he was level 20.


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## fireinthedust (Jun 29, 2011)

Farmer Joe:  No.  This is an EPIC game.  We are EPIC people.
...
He'd have to be some kind of farmer who grows EPIC cows.

Sorcerer:  Go with that.  I don't have that other system.  Also, clearly, you can't be a Mind Flayer in this game... cause of you know why not.  (knowing look at Mal)


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## Herobizkit (Jun 29, 2011)

Just a heads up... My character is good to go. 

But back to Joe the Farmer.  Perhaps he IS an epic farmer who does, in fact, grow epic cows, as well as epic fruit in his epic orchard.  Fruit that, when consumed, gives people epic powers... and that's how he became level 20.

All you'd need is some prestige class that halts the aging process and your sorcerer could grow epic fruit forever... how high could one max out a Profession (Farmer) skill?


----------



## WarlockLord (Jun 29, 2011)

Let's see...we could get a +30 competence bonus from an item (unless they changed that), plus skill focus...hmm.


----------



## Thaven (Jun 29, 2011)

Imagine it. He's a GOOD character who's family farm fed an entire province because of the EPIC food he created with his magic. 

Very plausible.


----------



## Scott DeWar (Jun 29, 2011)

And he/she would probably be friendly with druids and the fey folk!


----------



## WarlockLord (Jun 29, 2011)

Cort the Ice Sorceror
LG Male Human
Str 8 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 30 (36 with cloak)

HP: 180 (20d6+60) AC 26 Speed 30 ft

Init +1

BAB +10

Saves: Fort +15, Reflex +14, Will +19
CMB: +9
CMD: 20

Skills: Bluff +34, Fly +25, Knowledge(arcana)+25, Spellcraft +25

Feats: Endurance, Spell Focus (evocation), Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Spell 

Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Toughness, Empower Spell, Heighten Spell, 

Maximize Spell, Persistent Spell, Quicken Spell, Reach Spell, Spell Focus (illusion), 

Greater Spell Focus (illusion), Eschew Materials

Languages: Common, Draconic

Special: Boreal Bloodline (and affiliated abilities)

Sorceror Spells(10/9/9/9/9/8/8/8/8.  DC 23+level, 25+level for evocation & illusion, 

+1 DC to cold).  Cort uses the favored sorceror for humans which gets bonus spells 

known.
0-detect magic, detect poison, read magic, drench, breeze, mage hand, ghost sound, 

prestidigitation, ray of frost, mending, message, arcane mark
1-enlarge person, grease, ray of enfeeblement, mage armor, charm person, silent image, 

true strike, identify
2-web, see invisibility, mirror image, false life, alter self, command undead, 

shatter,
3-rage, protection from energy, nondetection, magic circle against evil, blacklight, 

haste, suggestion, cold elemental aura
4-black tentacles, solid fog, dimension door, scrying, enervation, wall of ice, 

greater invisibility
5-cone of cold, teleport, wall of stone, contact other plane, icy prison, overland 

flight, telekinesis, 
6-transformation, contingency, flesh to stone, permanent image, true seeing, mass 

suggestion,
7-giant form I, plane shift, prismatic spray, limited wish, control weather, ice body
8-polar ray, greater planar binding, polymorph any object, moment of presicence, 

greater shadow evocation,
9-meteor swarm (cold), mass icy prison, time stop, shades, 

Possessions: +5 tome of charisma (used), +6 headband of charisma, cloak of resistance 

+5, handy haversack, amulet of natural armor +5, ring of deflection +5, orange prism 

ioun stone, scrying mirror, 3000 gp diamond dust, luckstone, contingency focus, dusty 

rose prism ioun stone, gamboge nodule ioun stone, pale green prism ioun stone, ring of delayed doom (full charges), ring of freedom of movement, luck blade with one wish left,  287,640 gp.

All PF stuff from here, including the (unused) psionics system: Pathfinder_OGC

Background: (mostly joking)
Cort was a farmhand at an epic farm which grew epic broccoli.  However, on the fateful day when Mal took on the power of the gods and projected his face all over Golarion, he used his nigh-infinite powers to destroy the world's broccolli because he hated the taste.  Cort quit being a farmhand to learn more about his sorcerous powers, which he plans to use to avenge the epic broccoli and destroy Mal.


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## Thaven (Jun 29, 2011)

I love it.


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## jackslate45 (Jun 29, 2011)

That looks epic to me.


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## fireinthedust (Jun 29, 2011)

Nope, not epic enough.  At best he'd be level 5 with that background, and most likely just a 1st level adventurer fresh off the farm hoping for revenge.  Einstein was a 4th level expert (physics) when he figured out relativity et al.


Nope, we're talking 20th level sorcerer.  You've literally slain dragons and armies of minions to get to this level.  You have a castle made of ice somewhere in irrisen, and you're potentially one of Baba Yaga's long-abandoned apprentices.  You could be part viking/linnorm king blood, or you could be an irrisen winter witch.  Or something.  Suffice it to say, you're not only made of magic, but compared to other people you're the Mozart of ice magic.

Try again, and this time let me FEEL who this ice mage is.  You are an ally of the Broken Eagles.  You have a high Fly modifier.  You are a byword for blizzards, a synonym for sleet.  You have an achingly high Cha modifier.

and a GOOD alignment!


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## fireinthedust (Jun 29, 2011)

Good doesn't mean not traumatized, or emo, or emotionally charged.  It just means you have a problem with bad folks (like the people who traumatized you) screwing with people, especially people who don't deserve it.  

In theory, adventurers are all traumatized:  they spend all day killing living creatures, often up close, and having apex predators hunt them.  The universe, from the POV of a dungeon crawler, is out to get them.  To survive in this meat-grinder environment, they have to have something going on.  That doesn't mean they didn't get scuffed along the way.


----------



## Thaven (Jun 29, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Nope, not epic enough.  At best he'd be level 5 with that background, and most likely just a 1st level adventurer fresh off the farm hoping for revenge.  Einstein was a 4th level expert (physics) when he figured out relativity et al.




I know we may have had this conversation before, but I definitely don't agree about Einstein. He might have been a level 5 expert in a world where dragons exist, but in our world he was a level 20 physicist.

It's all relative.


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## WarlockLord (Jun 30, 2011)

I know, the background was just a joke.

Sorry Thaven.  

As a kid, Cort always had a problem with bullies.  Not that he was picked on or anything, but he couldn't really take watching the bigger kids beat up the little ones.  Naturally, he did what any kid with a sorcerous bloodline would do - fight back.  He went around the streets of his hometown protecting the smaller kids from the bigger, more aggressive ones with his charismatic presence and fearsome sorcery.  As he became an adult, all he saw were more bullies: the gangsters who extorted protection money, the corrupt politicians, and the lord of the Evil Empire over there.

     He dedicated himself to ending the threat posed by Malacarus with a hatred bordering on the irrational.  To the servants of Mal, he became known as the icy winds of death.  He even battled the necromancer to a stalemate several times, with the help of the Broken Eagles. 

     Now he is going to find these new bullies which are threatening this world, and see if he can put some squids...on ice.


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## Scott DeWar (Jun 30, 2011)

Do we get to see some good one liners with this character?!?!


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## Thaven (Jun 30, 2011)

You're lucky this forum has no capacity for experience penalties!


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## jackslate45 (Jun 30, 2011)

But can he freeze Hell the Abyss over?


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## WarlockLord (Jun 30, 2011)

Only one way to find out!


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## Thaven (Jul 1, 2011)

I assume that we will find a bard in the middle of this asteroid somehow. Call it a hunch.


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## fireinthedust (Jul 1, 2011)

heh.  I guess I should get on it.

Right now I'm starting the new monsters I made up for the module I created.  The official PF stats for them, that is.  Then I'll be making a massive pile of sample adventurers, either for quickstart games or replacements (or something else), and finally drawing the actual maps.  Then, once that and a solid playtest/re-write is finished, I'll grab an artist and get this sucker illustrated!  After all this, I'll go to drivethrurpg and or rpgnow, and see if they'll sell the pdfs for me; and I'll do it (without service charges) through my website.  bam.

Ok, I guess I better get you folks the next post.  And yeah, Herobizkit will be introduced soon.


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## WarlockLord (Jul 1, 2011)

What about Cort?


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## fireinthedust (Jul 3, 2011)

WarlockLord said:


> I know, the background was just a joke.
> 
> Sorry Thaven.
> 
> ...




Okay, a good start.  Now let me ask you: what makes this guy more than heroic?  What makes him EPIC?

I want three major adventures he's undertaken that would get him to 20th level.  Examples we've got so far include the seige of a city, fighting vampire elven nobles, and leading armies in battle.  

Is he a pure Sorcerer, or is he an Eldritch Knight?  Or a bit of a Rogue?  Or a Dragon Disciple?  Does he have a PrC?


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## Scott DeWar (Jul 3, 2011)

did he help Hedron in defeating the tainted ents of the forest Karpathia?


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## WarlockLord (Jul 4, 2011)

We could go with that.

He also defeated the crazed "Volcano Prophet" who nearly razed an entire continent one-on-one, then defeated the demon king Abaddon, who single-handedly wiped out an entire planet.  

He slew Malignus son of Malacarus, a powerful abjurer, by entombing him in ice then planeshifting him to the Negative Energy Plane.  

But his greatest adventure came at the hands of an ally.  Cort needed to learn to improve his skills, so he sought out an ancient white dragon skilled in the arcane arts.  The dragon refused to teach him, and in fact, sought to kill him, so Cort and the dragon fought for 3 days and nights until the dragon relented and agreed to teach Cort secrets of the icy prison, and how to make his spells extremely hard to resist.  These skills Cort used for his greatest triumphs, and to this day he considers the dragon a good friend.


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## Thaven (Jul 12, 2011)

I want to slay some demons!


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## Thaven (Jul 25, 2011)

[MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION], [MENTION=40098]WarlockLord[/MENTION]

You guys got tagged in! Check out the other thread and get readyyyyyy!


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## fireinthedust (Jul 25, 2011)

yeah:  Signal!   (go go go!)

Also:  sorry for the constant state of delay.  This is the first opportunity to be on a computer I have had for a while.  This includes writing of any sort.

On the plus side, the enrgy I spend here has gone into my workout, parenting, husbandry, creative cooking with beans and meat (and not making chili), and I've discovered that there's this bizarre.... space outside my apartment, between it and my work, that is filled with bipedal creatures and box-like areas called "stores".  It seems to be powered by a great golden light/heat source in the up-place (the only thing up there, it seems), such that when it goes they go dark.  I'd thought them all the shiny walls of this open-air dungeoncrawl I've been living in.  Disappointingly, when I use what skills I've learned on these boards with the people here, the GM sends goons after me, and I'm not allowed to keep any of the stuff I find.

However, there is a swing in the park nearby.  When I use it, I can go up and down.

More as it develops.


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## Scott DeWar (Jul 25, 2011)

Life does have its ups and downs!


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## Herobizkit (Jul 26, 2011)

Sure thing... um... where is the IC thread?


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## Scott DeWar (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/298270-e20-pf-strange-aeons-42.html#post5633903

^^You mean that IC thread? ^^


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## Shayuri (Jul 26, 2011)

...I have no gate key.

Oh, you mean THIS gate key!


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## Scott DeWar (Aug 13, 2011)

Shayuri said:


> ...I have no gate key.
> 
> Oh, you mean THIS gate key!



darn, I was hoping to  have fezik rip your arms off.



WarlockLord said:


> Cort begins searching.
> 
> 
> OOC: I think Malacarus had it prepared before he went rogue.



I thought Mal was a necromancer and thorn was the rogue.


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## fireinthedust (Aug 13, 2011)

Scott DeWar said:


> I thought Mal was a necromancer and thorn was the rogue.





Ba-doom ching!


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## Scott DeWar (Oct 2, 2011)

Just wanting a bit of clerification:

I rolled a nat 20 for a total of 57 and I detected nothing at all? not even the horde of creepy crawlies in the room, right?


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## Shayuri (Oct 2, 2011)

I am not the GM, and this is speculation on my part, but:

They are probably Ethereal. No amount of Perception allows you to detect the presence of Ethereal beings...because they're not actually present. They're in another plane.

The Gem lets you see into adjacent coterminous planes, like the Ethereal, so it would still reveal them there.


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## fireinthedust (Oct 3, 2011)

Shayuri said:


> I am not the GM, and this is speculation on my part, but:
> 
> They are probably Ethereal. No amount of Perception allows you to detect the presence of Ethereal beings...because they're not actually present. They're in another plane.
> 
> The Gem lets you see into adjacent coterminous planes, like the Ethereal, so it would still reveal them there.




At that the GM made a sort of nervous coughing noise into his bottled water.  Sweat started pouring down his face as his eyes darted from side to side, seeking escape.

(cough)  Well, that's just, err, that's just speculation right there (cough, wheeze), so, err, howsabout that local sports team?


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## jackslate45 (Oct 3, 2011)

They lost. Again.


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## Shayuri (Oct 3, 2011)

Hehe

In other news, I see it's my turn. I'll post asap, but work's super busy. Even posting this little message is setting me back a bit. Might have to wait until tonight.


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## WarlockLord (Oct 3, 2011)

Packers, yo!


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## Scott DeWar (Oct 3, 2011)

packers won?


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