# Is Thundercats anime?



## fireinthedust (May 1, 2011)

As a sort of side project on the back burner, I'm thinking about converting Thundercats' setting to an RPG, likely d20 but maybe not.

Anyway, my question is: does the Thundercats cartoon series count as Anime?  

I know traditional anime involves androgenous males with ruffled collars, too-big swords and half-demon heritage, so it wouldn't seem to fit.  

However, the animation was done I believe in Asia, and follows certain of that eras (1980s) anime conventions in terms of art style.

If it is anime, I might want to do BESMd20 or Tri-stat.  

If not... True20?  I was thinking that'd be a good place to start anyway.  it's fairly loose.


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## pawsplay (May 1, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> As a sort of side project on the back burner, I'm thinking about converting Thundercats' setting to an RPG, likely d20 but maybe not.
> 
> Anyway, my question is: does the Thundercats cartoon series count as Anime?




It's animation and it's Japanese-produced. That's usually good enough for me.



> I know traditional anime involves androgenous males with ruffled collars, too-big swords and half-demon heritage, so it wouldn't seem to fit.




Well, it has androgynous males with "metal hair," too-big swords, and demonic mummies, so I think you're covered.


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## Zhaleskra (May 1, 2011)

Anime is short version of the loan word animeshion "animation". So, despite having previously being under the impression that "anime" meant Japanese, I don't see why not.


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## Asmor (May 1, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> I know traditional anime involves androgenous males with ruffled collars, too-big swords and half-demon heritage, so it wouldn't seem to fit.




You seem to be confusing Final Fantasy with anime (which, I suppose, is understandable... It certainly has more in common with animation than with games).

That said, I wouldn't call Thundercats anime strictly because it wasn't made for a Japanese audience (as far as I know). I would, however, call it anime-ish.

I was struck a few years back when I got the Transformers movie on DVD and realized just how much that series feels like anime.


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## Henry (May 1, 2011)

It is what you say it is, for purpose of making a game for personal use. I've heard of people using AD&D, True20, Savage Worlds, and WEG D6 systems for it -- heck, I did an AD&D conversion myself of some of the characters from it when I was maybe 15 or 16 years old?


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## Glade Riven (May 1, 2011)

No more or less than that old Hobbit cartoon or Return of the King cartoon. Same studio did both. The character designs appear based off of the costumes for the broadway play "Cats." The designs are far more Western based than what people would consider "anime," and it doesn't follow the japanese cultural conventions usually found in anime (exept haichiman, but he was Japanese). At least some of the writers were roleplayers, though.

Stylistically, both in designs and method of storytelling, I would say no. The new Thundercats show, though, looks to be heavily influenced by Japanese "Epic Fantasy Cybersteampunk" with a dash of seasoning of Stargate. That's just going by the trailers, though.

Nowadays - American animation, Japanese animation, all made in Taiwan. Or South Korea.

On a side note, Transformers and GI Joe were produced East-Meets-West style - Hasbro (the american toy company) contracted Sunrise (a japanese animation company) to make it. So technically both are anime...sort of. There was quite a bit of American input. American 'toons today are usually produced the same way - the main company does all the planning, script writing, storyboards, etc - and the gruntwork is outsourced to Asia because creating animation is a long, tedious, and boring process.


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## Bedrockgames (May 1, 2011)

I am pretty sure it was made by an american company (I could be wrong though). But it definitely had a lot of anime-like elements to it. I say regardless of whether its anime or not, design it with the system you think will work best. Personally I think BESM is just fine for TC. 

Someone may have already mentioned this but cartoon network is doing a new Thundercats series this year.


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## GreyLord (May 1, 2011)

Many call Thundercats (along with the Hobbit, The Return of the King, the Last Unicorn) the first Anime cartoons.

Anime existed, as in the Japanese cartoons produced during that time, and the company behind the above movies/series were NOT Japanese, but the stylistic changes they brought to the industry  (Japanese...go figure) set the standard for other anime series that came later (not ALL...but the influence can be seen later). In addition many of the animators, producers and heads of departments and sub-companies as well as contracted companies were Japanese.

Many of the people who worked for the studio later made other animations  that are full fledged Anime in any sense of the word, no one would bat an eyelash or questions whether they were anime or not.

Grave of the Fireflies
Kiki's delivery service
Princess Mononoke

etc.


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## Leatherhead (May 2, 2011)

pawsplay said:


> Well, it has androgynous males with "metal hair," too-big swords, and demonic mummies, so I think you're covered.




Maybe the new cartoon does, but the old cartoon had the like two body types for men, fat and beefcake.

Even the mummy had a beefcake build, seriously.


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## Thunderfoot (May 2, 2011)

The original --- no, furry maybe, but not anime.

The new one -- big eyes, crappy dialogue, funny looking drawing - yep, it qualifies.


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## pawsplay (May 2, 2011)

Leatherhead said:


> Maybe the new cartoon does, but the old cartoon had the like two body types for men, fat and beefcake.




What are you talking about? Tygra and Lion-O totally look Richard Simmons and Sigourney Weaver. Panthro is fairly butch, though.


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## Umbran (May 2, 2011)

Who owned what animation shop, and what body types the characters had, do not seem like the relevant bits in determining what ruleset to use.

More important would be the _style of action_ portrayed in the series.  For that, I'd say yes, an anime rule set would be appropriate.


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## ThirdWizard (May 3, 2011)

It was written by Americans and voiced by Americans for an American audience. Yeah, maybe it was influenced by anime, but anime was influenced by Disney. AFAIK it wasn't even broadcast in Japan.

One of my qualifications for "Is it anime": Can you argue if the sub or dub is better? Can't do that for Thundercats, so it isn't anime! (This is partially tongue in cheek. )


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## RainOfSteel (May 3, 2011)

fireinthedust said:


> Anyway, my question is: does the Thundercats cartoon series count as Anime?



Anime is, effectively, the Japanese word for cartoon.  In that sense, Thudercats is anime.

If you are specifically talking about Japanese Anime, then no, it's not.

Since anime is a Japanese word, my personal preference is to use it on media from Japan.

I would call Thundercats a cartoon, since it comes from the USA.

Beyond that, yes, BESM would be good.




pawsplay said:


> [...] it's Japanese-produced. That's usually good enough for me.



No it wasn't.

ThunderCats - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> ThunderCats is an American animated television series that was produced by Rankin/Bass Productions


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## pawsplay (May 3, 2011)

RainOfSteel said:


> Anime is, effectively, the Japanese word for cartoon.  In that sense, Thudercats is anime.
> 
> If you are specifically talking about Japanese Anime, then no, it's not.
> 
> ...




The Pacific Animation Corporation appears to be Japanese.


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## ThirdWizard (May 3, 2011)

pawsplay said:


> The Pacific Animation Corporation appears to be Japanese.




I guess it boils down to which is more important, creators/writers or animators. 

A good example is The Boondocks. Animated by the people who brought us Ninja Scroll. Not only created by a popular syndicated US cartoonist, but art design by him as well.


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## Danzauker (May 3, 2011)

I have been watching anime, or like we always called them, Japanese cartoons for the last 35 years, spanning from media produced in the sixties through the naughties.

Thundercats is DEFINITELY NOT anime.

Produced by an American company, for an American audience, with American tastes in mind.

Sure, the animation was drawn in asian studios and workshops, but scripts, chara design and everything was directed by american input.

A lot more cartoons than one would think are made by asian animators, to cut down costs, expecially Korean, because they're cheap. Even Japanese studios resort to Korean manpower to cut down costs.

But what makes the "nationality" of a house? The architect or the masons?


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## pawsplay (May 3, 2011)

So Astro Boy and Cowboy Bebop both get to be anime, but Thundercats doesn't? Anime is Japanese for "animation." Thundercats was animated in Japan. While it may not have a lot in common stylistically with the stereotypical Japanese approach to animation, I don't see the relevance... "anime" spans a vast range of styles and tropes anyway.

So when someone says, "Thundercats isn't anime, it has the wrong look," my first thought is, "This person is not familiar with a range of Japanese animation."


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## ThirdWizard (May 3, 2011)

pawsplay said:


> So Astro Boy and Cowboy Bebop both get to be anime, but Thundercats doesn't? Anime is Japanese for "animation." Thundercats was animated in Japan. While it may not have a lot in common stylistically with the stereotypical Japanese approach to animation, I don't see the relevance... "anime" spans a vast range of styles and tropes anyway.
> 
> So when someone says, "Thundercats isn't anime, it has the wrong look," my first thought is, "This person is not familiar with a range of Japanese animation."




Get to be is a strange way of putting it.

There are a few ways to define anime, depending on your intent. One is any animation. So, Snow White is anime by that definition. Another way is a Japanese cartoon. I don't think most people who uses that definition mean it is animated by a Japanese person or Japanese animation studio. I think when people say that they mean made by Japanese people for Japanese people.

It's not about look, its about demographics, target audience, and who wrote and created the show. If Naruto was created and written by an American, voiced by Americans, but was in every other way identical to how it is now, then I would not call it anime, for example. Just because the animation is outsourced doesn't make it a Japanese product. Is an iPhone a Chinese product if it is manufactured by Foxconn?


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## pawsplay (May 3, 2011)

ThirdWizard said:


> Get to be is a strange way of putting it.
> 
> There are a few ways to define anime, depending on your intent. One is any animation. So, Snow White is anime by that definition. Another way is a Japanese cartoon. I don't think most people who uses that definition mean it is animated by a Japanese person or Japanese animation studio. I think when people say that they mean made by Japanese people for Japanese people.




So... no American cartoon can ever be anime?

What about Robotech? It was made by Japanese people for Japanese people, but was later edited into a completely different show. Is it anime?



> It's not about look, its about demographics, target audience, and who wrote and created the show. If Naruto was created and written by an American, voiced by Americans, but was in every other way identical to how it is now, then I would not call it anime, for example.




Really?



> Just because the animation is outsourced doesn't make it a Japanese product. Is an iPhone a Chinese product if it is manufactured by Foxconn?




... Yes? I mean, it will probably say, "Made in China," somewhere on it, after all.

What about cartoons made for Japanese people made by second-generation Polynesian immigrants to Japan? What about by Japanese, for Japanese, but the studio is a Time Warner subdivision?

Is there something ethnic about anime? Because if it's not simply animation made in Japan, and it's not a family of animation connected by style and cultural similarties, and it really is just "animation by Japanese for Japanese," that means that basically anime is defined by the people involved, not any quality of the work itself. 

That's a little like saying Mexicans don't drive cars... they drive _carros_. And Mexicans don't eat taco sauce, they eat "salsa sauce" (like Japanese anime, get it?). And they don't drink water; when it's made by Mexicans for Mexicans, it's agua.

Cordialmente,
pawsplay


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## ShinHakkaider (May 3, 2011)

pawsplay said:


> So Astro Boy and Cowboy Bebop both get to be anime, but Thundercats doesn't? Anime is Japanese for "animation." Thundercats was animated in Japan. While it may not have a lot in common stylistically with the stereotypical Japanese approach to animation, I don't see the relevance... "anime" spans a vast range of styles and tropes anyway.
> 
> So when someone says, "Thundercats isn't anime, it has the wrong look," my first thought is, "This person is not familiar with a range of Japanese animation."




I'm familiar with the wide range of japanese animation and have been into anime for about 30+ years. There were several american shows produced during the 80's which used TMS and Sunrise (Nippon Sunrise at that time) for their animation. You dont really see it in the animation used IN the shows as much as you see it in the OPENINGS of those particular shows. Most notably SILVERHAWKS, THUNDERCATS, BIONIC SIX and MIGHTY ORBOTS. The average animation during those shows were actually pretty crappy. Now I know that this is neither here or there but when I was a kid and saw these openings I thought that they were amazing. But I'm one of those people that dont consider anything produced for an American audience to be Anime even if it HAS Japanese animators working on it. 

Both the GI JOE animated movie and TRANSFORMERS THE MOVIE were obviously japanese animated and were fun films. The story telling sensibilities of both came the closest to American anime as anything is going to get (with the obvious exception of AVATAR THE LAST AIRBENDER) but still is not, to me anyway anime. 

Your example of ROBOTECH is a bit of a cheat. As Carl Maecek got the rights to three different shows (SUPERDIMENSIONAL FORTRESS MACROSS, SUPERDIMENSIONAL CALVARY SOUTHERN CROSS and GENESIS CLIMBER MOSPEADA) edited and reworked the dialogue and story to make one big and completely different story. Sandy Frank did the same thing with KAGAKU NINJA TAI GATCHAMAN when he turned it into G-FORCE. Are those ANIME? obviously yes, but they're butchered forms of it. It's the same as if someone took all six of the Star Wars movies, re-edited them and re dubbed them so that Darth Vader was the good guy and completely mis understood and those STOOPID rebels were in the way of him being reunited with his long lost shiny Droid and his short rotund friend (oh and his kid). Is it still Star Wars? Sure. But is it still STAR WARS? I wouldn't call it that.


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## ShinHakkaider (May 3, 2011)

Thundercats, Mighty Orbots, SilverHawks, Bionic Six = Not Anime.

Astro Boy, Mach Go Go Go, Kimba The White Lion = Anime

GI Joe, Transformers = Not Anime (Ironically enough there are Japanese Transformers series. Those ARE anime.)

Saint Seiya, Juusneki L-Gaim, Kido Senshi Zeta Gundam = Anime

Boondocks, Family Guy, Futurama and the Simpsons = Not Anime (Even though Boondocks is animated by Studio Madhouse who made Jubei Ninpucho aka The Wind Ninja Chronicles aka Ninja Scroll, Youju Toshi aka Supernatural Beast City and Kamui No Ken aka Dagger of Kamui)

Naruto, Naruto Shippuuden, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho = Anime

Amelie, Au revoir les enfants, Ichi the Killer, Black Book and Haute Tension are not Foreign Films? Because they're all films? They ARE all films but they are also films tied to their various nationalities of origin. 

To say all cartoons are just cartoons no matter their place of origins is just either being overly simplistic for the sake of "winning" an argument. 

If that's the case there are no differences between rules light RPG's and rule heavy RPG's theyre all just RPG's. But it's not that simple. 

Neither is the definition of Anime. It's not as simple as something that was animated by Japanese animators, especially since these days alot of the animation is farmed out to Korean animation houses. Does that mean that Anime isn't ANIME?


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## pawsplay (May 3, 2011)

I'm not convinced anime is a term that means "foreign Japanese animation film." It's a term adapted from Japanese, which refers to all animation everywhere, and and it can be applied as referring to a style that Japanese people relate to. But I don't see how Thundercats can be "anime" to someone living in Tokyo but not to someone living in California. Thundercats was animated in Japan and shows Japanese stylistic touches. The "Sword of Omens" sequence has obvious visual parallels to many Japanese cartoons, but little in common with Filmation's He-Man tranformation. While it has been asserted that anime is made by Japanese, for Japanese, I cannot reconcile that with the knowledge that the ancestral term in the Japanese language has no such connotations in the slightest.


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## ShinHakkaider (May 4, 2011)

Wow. Okay this whole thing can be solved very easily. 

Anime = Japanese word for Cartoon.

Japanese Anime = Japanese Cartoon. 

DONE. 

Personally I'll never classify an american cartoon as Anime. But to each his own I guess.


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## RainOfSteel (May 4, 2011)

pawsplay said:


> The Pacific Animation Corporation appears to be Japanese.



They may have been hired to design and implement the animation, but they did not produce it, not was it ever considered a Japanese origin title.

There is also another term floating around now, Manwha:

Manhwa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Korea, this word pretty much means comic, like manga in Japan.

In the US it is also used to refer to Korean-origin material:

Priest (manhwa) - Anime News Network


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## Leatherhead (May 4, 2011)

I thought "Anime" was a french word.


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## ThirdWizard (May 4, 2011)

pawsplay said:


> So... no American cartoon can ever be anime?




By the generally used definition? Not really.

Now, when you go to an anime convention, you see that lots of anime fans love American-made cartoons, too, of course. Samurai Jack is a beloved example. It isn't anime. It is highly influenced by anime. But, it isn't anime.



> What about Robotech? It was made by Japanese people for Japanese people, but was later edited into a completely different show. Is it anime?




That's an interesting example. Lets say there are gray areas.



> What about cartoons made for Japanese people made by second-generation Polynesian immigrants to Japan? What about by Japanese, for Japanese, but the studio is a Time Warner subdivision?




That's an interesting idea. What if Disney made a cartoon series in America, but it was specifically targeted at a Japanese audience and aired in Japan and _not_ America. Further, what if it is voiced by Japanese voice actors with no American voice acting? Also, what if the animation style was considered mostly western?

I guess this is where we get back into a gray area again. I might venture to call such a thing anime.



> Is there something ethnic about anime? Because if it's not simply animation made in Japan, and it's not a family of animation connected by style and cultural similarties, and it really is just "animation by Japanese for Japanese," that means that basically anime is defined by the people involved, not any quality of the work itself.




Exactly my thoughts. 

If Studio Ghibli made a Bugs Bunny cartoon that _looked_ like a Bugs Bunny cartoon, it'd be anime, IMO.



> That's a little like saying Mexicans don't drive cars... they drive _carros_. And Mexicans don't eat taco sauce, they eat "salsa sauce" (like Japanese anime, get it?). And they don't drink water; when it's made by Mexicans for Mexicans, it's agua.




But, anime _is_ a cartoon. Heresy, I know. They'll come for me soon... but I think I have time to post this before they get me. In Japan, they'll call Justice League anime, because that's their word for cartoon. So, if you want to get really really technical, Justice League is anime. So are Dexter's Laboratory, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Steamboat Willy.

But, we've come to refer to it as more specifically Japanese cartoons. It's like how Superman is manga in Japan, but if you called it that in America, people would look at you funny. So it isn't like calling a car made in Mexico for Mexicans a carros, because nobody cares. The only reason we have the term anime in America is to differentiate American cartoons and Japanese cartoons, mostly because of the existance of fandom. If there was a carros fandom, we'd see the same thing with the cars.

I will say that it isn't important what the "real" definition of anime is (which probably will change based on who you talk to, as we prove in this very thread). The important thing is that when you or I talk about anime, to be on the same page as whomever we're talking to. That's a language thing. Communication is key.


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## Danzauker (May 4, 2011)

pawsplay said:


> But I don't see how Thundercats can be "anime" to someone living in Tokyo but not to someone living in California.




Actually, this is something that happens ALL the time.

For Americans, a _sombrero_ is a very peculiar Mexican kind of hat.

For spanish-speaking people, it just means hat.

Sombrero - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Same thing for anime, or manga for that matter. Is Spider-man a manga? Well, in some way yes. _Manga_ is just the general term for "comic". A Japanese would talk with friends about Spider-man using the word "manga".

Unless he wants to stress that it's an AMERICAN manga, then he'd probably use the word "comic" (or "komikku", as it were).

I'm Italian, and thus being neither American nor Japanese, I guarantee you it's perfectly normal to use "cartoon" to (implicitly) refer to American cartoons and anime to refer to Japanese cartoons in jargon. When you don't want to specify, we just call them "cartoni animati". Of course you can also say "cartoni animati giapponesi" or "cartoni animati americani". It just makes you la little less in the know. 

Back to topic, when I was a kid,and having always liked Japanese TV animation more than American, I distinctly recalled pointing out IMMEDIATELY that Thundercats and G.I. Joe were American, since the similarities between them and other American cartoons (MOTU, Ghoustbusters) were a lot more noticeable than the little Japanese influence.

Small hint: if it has the main characters giving you a speech at the end asking you what you've leanrned by the episode or remembering you not to do this at home, then it's a cartoon, not an anime.


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## Deset Gled (May 4, 2011)

Given the time that Thundercats originally came out, it could not possibly be "anime".  However, it is possible that it was "Japanimation".


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## Walking Dad (May 5, 2011)

Does this look like an anime?







I say yes. Does the 'action' will feel like one (important for the RPG system choice)? I don't know.

For the old serial:
Thundercats was as anime as He-Man, regarding the story and action.


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## GreyLord (May 5, 2011)

I think it's more complex than that.  Many of the leaders in japanese animation got their starts on Thundercats, The Last Unicorn, and other Rankin/Bass shows. 

The same cannot be stated for any other American cartoon, including the aforementioned GI Joe and Transformers.

For starters the Head animators and people in charge of the art were Japanese...NOT americans.  The overall studio was japanese.  The direction and production were wholly American however.

This isn't the case for the American cartoons such as He-man, GI-Joe, Transformers, etc.

You can see direct similarities between Rankin/Bass animation and the animation out of Japan later (probably because the animators that led the industry many times came from Rankin Bass somewhere in their background, or influenced others who did Japanimation from that time period).  This is particularly clear in the Last Unicorn's animation.

However, Thundercats was created FOR WESTERN audiences, so as someone says...for Americans.  The producers were American...hence by Americans...for Americans.

Of course, that creates some confusion.  Much of what is called anime today is actually BY americans...but directed both towards Japanese and American Cartoon aficiendos.

Robotech was produced By Americans for Americans (I actually prefer Macross far more).  I know many would call Robotech Anime.

I'd say the water is murky about whether Thundercats qualifies as Anime.  I know many consider it one of the first anime's in existence.

I'd say it's even murkier about Robotech.  It has similar backgrounds, but with a similar idea of By Americans...for Americans.

Overall however, I'd say that the influence Thundercats has had on the Anime coming from Japan is actually quite noticeable...especially considering what some of those animators eventually went on to do, and what they've done since.

In the same light, the actual ANIMATORS who worked on the three series that made Robotech (and by that I mean those who drew the original JAPANESE cartoons, such as Macross from which Robotech was stolen) were also quite influencial later on japanese animation.

Of course, when talking about Anime as in the West, as opposed to Anime in Japan, one also has to consider the incredible influence Ecchi and Hentai had upon Western audiences and how that also influenced what came out of Japan and entered into the US and Europe and the artstyles that became favored amongst those in the West as opposed to those in the East.

Then later on the influence of Pokemon and it's impact on the East and West.  Some of the older crowd would probably say Pokemon had a negative influence on the direction of Anime that comes Westward...while I'm positive many of the newer Anime fanatics would say that it had a Postive influence.

For the record, I'm not an Anime fan.  If my tastes are any indication, with what I enjoy being the test...Thundercats is not anime because I enjoy watching it.  The Last Unicorn may be since I can't stand it.  I do enjoy Macross and Record of Lodoss War.  Other than that I haven't really enjoyed much anime.  I do appreciate the animation however/artwork.  That's about the extent of my interests.

Oh yeah, I also enjoyed Iria/Zeiram from a while back...when I saw it.  I am into cartoons and animation overall however.  Might call me somewhat of a Cartoon addict...but I still have kids so still have someone to blame when I'm caught watching it.


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## pawsplay (May 5, 2011)

Thundercats, HOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgTMNO0PJxY]YouTube - Thundercats - Lion-o summons the sword of omens[/ame]


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## RainOfSteel (May 5, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Does this look like an anime?
> 
> [...]
> 
> I say yes.



I say no.  Looks aren't everything.  Once you start watching Thundercats, it screams USA-cartoon.




Walking Dad said:


> For the old serial:
> Thundercats was as anime as He-Man,



Only in that He-Man wasn't anime at all.  He-Man doesn't just scream USA-cartoon, it _thunders_ it.


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## ThirdWizard (May 5, 2011)

GreyLord said:


> Of course, that creates some confusion.  Much of what is called anime today is actually BY americans...but directed both towards Japanese and American Cartoon aficiendos.




I'm curious of examples of this.



> I'd say the water is murky about whether Thundercats qualifies as Anime.  I know many consider it one of the first anime's in existence.




That would be crazy. Anime started at least as far back as the 60s. That's two decades removed!


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## Umbran (May 5, 2011)

Folks,

The OP asked the question in the context of what system would be good for a Thundercats RPG.  Most of you seem to be ignoring that context.

If this conversation's going to continue down the line of definitions of "anime" in terms of who made it and where, I'm going to slide to his over into the Media forum, with all the other discussions of, "What fits in this genre of media?" go.

If you're going to return to the question of turning it into an RPG, I'll leave it here in General.


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## ShinHakkaider (May 5, 2011)

GreyLord said:


> Robotech was produced By Americans for Americans (I actually prefer Macross far more).  I know many would call Robotech Anime.
> 
> I'd say the water is murky about whether Thundercats qualifies as Anime.  I know many consider it one of the first anime's in existence.
> 
> I'd say it's even murkier about Robotech.  It has similar backgrounds, but with a similar idea of By Americans...for Americans.




Okay, I know Umbran came in here and asked us to keep this on track but I definitely have to address this point. 

ROBOTECH isn't new animation targeted towards an American audience. Carl Macek literally reduced and edited Superdiemenional Fortress Macross, Superdimensional Calvary Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada into what would become Robotech. 

So if you consider an American dubbed and edited version of a foreign film or series as a whole new product then I can see where you're coming from. But Macek took something that already existed an altered it (in the case of Southern Cross and Mospeada, changed drastically) for an American audience. 

Hikaru Ichijyo becomes Rick Hunter in the American version.
Roy Focker becomes Roy Fokker
Claudia LaSalle becomes Claudia Grant
Maximillian Genius becomes Max Sterling
Exidole becomes Exadore
Misa Hayse becomes Lisa Hayes

Aside from some of the changes from a Japanese name to something more American sounding how is this something completely new?


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## Umbran (May 5, 2011)

ShinHakkaider said:


> Okay, I know Umbran came in here and asked us to keep this on track but I definitely have to address this point.





...annnnd off to Media it goes!

By the way, while in this case it isn't a big deal, starting a post with the equivalent of, "A mod said not to do this, but...," is not generally going to be the wisest choice of actions available to you.


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## GreyLord (May 5, 2011)

ShinHakkaider said:


> Okay, I know Umbran came in here and asked us to keep this on track but I definitely have to address this point.
> 
> ROBOTECH isn't new animation targeted towards an American audience. Carl Macek literally reduced and edited Superdiemenional Fortress Macross, Superdimensional Calvary Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada into what would become Robotech.
> 
> ...




Lets see if I can satisfy both requirements at the same time.  Robotech is a totally different thing than Macross.  They share similarities, but overall they are as different in my mind as the Sword of Shannara and the Lord of the Rings.

Just as LotR is superior overall in mosts opinion, I have the opinion that Macross is superior to Robotech in story and overall connectivity.  The creators of Robotech took enough liberties with Macross to change it in intent and plot so they could integrate two other completely different series into it (what is protoculture for example) to make it so that to my mind they are separate things.

Robotech is totally and fully American.  Macross is Japanese, but can appeal to all audiences.

If you notice the Robotech RPG is called and designed after Robotech (from what I've seen) and doesn't really follow the Macross designs beyond the original Macross.  In fact Macross and Robotech literally follow different histories completely after the original common denominator that they shared in animation, that of Super-Dimensional Fortress Macross.

Even that commonality had Robotech cutting and pasting different parts of the story to create ideas that were not in the original.

Ironically, even in Japan, you have those that also follow Robotech now days in addition to Macross.  Even more interesting...they have fans of Thundercats, especially amongst those who are fans of certain anime artists and directors.

Robotech has become it's own beast.

In that light, Robotech the RPG, though an American creation, perhaps because of similarities with Macross (due to the common background) may be an excellent choice of trying to play a Macross type RPG.

As for Thundercats, I see it in a similar light to Record of Lodoss War.  I think Lodoss would actually fit perfectly into an AD&D campaign (though I think it is officially supported by Sword World/Japanese RPG's...which also probably would work pretty good for Thundercats if you count them all as mutants...perhaps as Mutant cats).  Thundercats had your classic classes in some ways...with characters being either one class or another (two choices given below)

Lion-O = Fighter/Paladin
Cheetara = Ranger/Acrobat
Panthro = Monk/Barbarian
Wilykit/WilyKat = Rogues/Thieves
Tigra= Illusionist/Psionic
Ben-Gali = Warrior
Pumrya=Cleric
Lynx-O = Monk/Druid


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