# (LHHS) OOC Thread I



## Creamsteak (Aug 2, 2002)

I am recruiting for a very lighthearted; combat focused, low-level game. The game will rely heavily on fighting random battles, and finding random treasure. Yes, that’s right, a hack n’ slash. I’m focused on recruiting people that are at Enworld more than a few hours a day. In other words: People like myself that are here anyways, and could use an extra distraction when waiting for other posts.

I’ll be the DM and although my only true focus here at Enworld is to run the Rokugan Industrial Revolution, I really would like to run a lighthearted game. Because of my other distractions, this game will always be second on my list. It should be second on your list as well.

If you’re interested in playing, here are my requirements:

You must be in at least 2 other games at Enworld (Fight Club counts as One).
You must be willing to keep in mind that this game is #2 on everyone’s lists.
You must be willing to die, because it is going to happen in this game.

If you fit these criteria, then go ahead and create your character. There is a limited racial selection (for color) and only Players Handbook and Psionics Handbook character classes are available. Prestige classes are fine from most sources (no magazines or campaign setting related ones please). Feats are fine from the PHB and the Splat-books (class-books).

Characters can be made with the point buy system with 42 points if they are +0 ECL, and 36 points if they are +1 ECL. There will be no traditional Experience penalties for selecting a +1 ECL race.

You may select any of these races:
Aasimar (Breton)
Drow +1 ECL
High Elf
Human
Lizard folk +1 ECL
Orc
Tiefling (Imp)
Wood Elf

Bretons and Imps are Humans just the same, just particularly different humans. There are no Half-races in this world, if two different races mate, only one races traits show on the exterior (ex: Orc/Human mating has a 50% chance of being born an Orc, and a 50% chance of being born a human). Yes, being a Lizard folk does get you a +2d8 HD bonus. Yes, being a Drow gives you SR.

Everyone starts at level 1 with 900 gold to spend on gear.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Aug 2, 2002)

Count me in, although i'll have to post my char tomorrow or the day after methinks...


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## Kalanyr (Aug 2, 2002)

*Signs Up*

Drow Cleric 1 coming up sometime. 

Now how to Min-Max a Cleric?  Its just too easy.


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## Macbrea (Aug 2, 2002)

Sure count me in!


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## Darkwolf (Aug 2, 2002)

oh what the heck...I'll hop in also ;p


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## reapersaurus (Aug 2, 2002)

creamstake - I wanna make a character that specializes in Bluffing at range!   (j/k)

I'd like to play, and I have a request:
I'd really like to play a Saurial (+2 ECL, similar to Lizardmen). 
Can I play one at a +1 ECL?
Feel free to limit any of their abilities, if you wish. It's more for flavor reasons, but also testing a min/max idea.


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Recruiting for a Light Hearted Game (For people in a game already)*



			
				creamsteak said:
			
		

> If you’re interested in playing, here are my requirements:
> 
> You must be in at least 2 other games at Enworld (Fight Club counts as One).
> *Check*
> ...




Ok, I'll start working on it.


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## Macbrea (Aug 2, 2002)

Obsolete


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## novyet (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm in if you'll have me. I'll start work right away.


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## novyet (Aug 2, 2002)

Well if you'll have me....then here we go! 

Fangtooth Tuskbreaker, Orc Male Barbarian
Level: 1 
Exp: 0
Size: Medium
HD: 1d12+3
HP: 15
Initiative: +3
Spd: 40'
Alignment: N
AC 17 (Masterwork Chain Shirt, Dex)

Fort +5
Ref +3
Will -2

Str 22 (+6)
Dex 16 (+3)
Con 16 (+3)
Int 8 (-1)
Wis 6 (-2)
Cha 10 

Combat Information 
Masterwork Greataxe +8 melee, 1d12+9, 20 x3, Type: Slashing, Size Large
Silver Dagger +7 melee, 1d4+6, 19-20 x2, Type: Piercing, Size Tiny
Javelins (20) +4 Ranged, 1d6+6, 20 x2, Type: Piercing, Size Medium

Special Qualities
Darkvision 60'
Light Sensitivity: Orcs suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Rage 1/day (8 round duration)
Fast Movement

Skills
Climb +10
Intimidate +4
Jump +10

Feats
Power Attack

Languages
Common, Orc

Description: Fangtooth is a massively built orc, with a penchant for shiny objects to adorn his chest, be they coins, bits of weapons, or polished bones. Fangtooth cares little for anything other than combat

Possessions:
Explorer's Outfit 
Masterwork Potion Belt
6 Vials of Alchemists Fire
2 Cure Light Wounds Potions 
1 Backpack
Masterwork Greataxe
Masterwork Chain Shirt
20 Javelins in bundle on back
1 Silver Dagger
56 Gold Pieces


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## Creamsteak (Aug 2, 2002)

Welcome,

Sollir Furryfoot
Kalanyr
Macbrea
Darkwolf
reapersaurus
Lichtenhart
novyet

I'll check all your characters some point between now and when we start  . 

The only question I think isn't answered by my welcome is reapersaurus: "I'd really like to play a Saurial "

Huh... exceptionally big Lizardfolk? How bout I give you 32 points then? Of course, maybe seeing thier stats would persuade me to give you the full 36, if theres nothing special other than stat bonuses and simple things.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 2, 2002)

sounds good.
I'll post the differences between them and a Lizardman when i get home tonight.
As i remember, they're fairly close in abilities and general strength of template.


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## Xeriar (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Recruiting for a Light Hearted Game (For people in a game already)*



			
				creamsteak said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You must be in at least 2 other games at Enworld (Fight Club counts as One).*




Does trolling the ENWorld forums count as a game? 

Just joking around, this would end up below #2 on my list, I think :-/


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## Creamsteak (Aug 3, 2002)

I guess technically anyone can join since I'm not checking to make sure your in two games...

I just want to help people that are in the same situation as me: At Enworld 2 or more hours a day, and find themselves bored after a certain amount of time.

Macbrea asked about Lizardfolk Hit Dice: You do get the base save bonus for 2 hit dice of humanoid, and the base attack bonus, I think... not sure positively, but would seem accurate.

YOu probably keep track of damage seperately for claws and for unarmed damaged... but I'm not sure.

So you can keep track of both sperately, since it is possible to use your claws, but it is still possible to use your fist, foot, or head.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 3, 2002)

The game Starts Monday, with or without stats (since encounters won't happen just yet).

So for now you can simply state Race/Class.

I'll open a thread at the rogues galery. Title is : "Characters in the Light Hearted Hack n' Slash Game."


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 3, 2002)

Ok, I'll be the crazy Impish Rogue. I have to be the first to die! 

How do your Imps look like?


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## Creamsteak (Aug 3, 2002)

Adding Lichtenhart and Xeriar to my list of people that have posted to this thread.

Your official as soon as you post your character to  this thread.


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## Darkwolf (Aug 3, 2002)

Which stat mods are you using for drow?
FRCS or MM?


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## Creamsteak (Aug 3, 2002)

FRCS, but nothing else from that book since I don't own it.

Edit: Well... it's not a rule, but I don't own the book so limit the stuff from it.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 5, 2002)

* Custom Rules for the Light Hearted Hack n' Slash *

Aasimar (Breton) - +2 Wis, +2 Cha, +2 Listen, +2 Spot, +4 Heal, +4 Knowledge (Religion), light 1/day
Drow - +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha, +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot, Fire Resistance 11 + Class Level, Spell Resistance 11 + Class Level, No Light Blindness, Spell-Like Abilities.
High Elf - +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot, +4 Alchemy, +4 Knowledge (Arcana)
Human (Nord) - Bonus Feat, Bonus Skills, Cold Resistance 11 + Class Level, Electric Resistance 7 + Class Level, Shocking Grasp 1/day
Human (Redguard) - Bonus Feat, Bonus Skills, +4 Racial Fortitude Bonus, Rage 1/day and not winded after rage.
Lizard Folk - +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, +2d8 HD, +1 Base Attack, +3 Ref, +5 Natural Armor, -3 Ranks/Skill, +6 Jump, +8 Swim, +4 Balance, Multiattack, Weapon Proficiency (Javelin, Greatclub, claws).
Orc - +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. No Light Blindness. Proficient in all armor and simple and martial weapons and shields. Rage 1/day.
Tiefling (Imp) - +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha, +2 Bluff, +2 Hide, +4 Diplomacy, +4 Gather Information, darkness 1/day.
Wood Elf - +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha. +2 Listen/Search/Spot. Proficient with all bows and crossbows, and gets 1 free weapon focus in any one of them.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 5, 2002)

No Potion Belts! I don't care what your mother says...

please...


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 5, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *Tiefling (Imp) - +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha, +4 Bluff, +4 Hide.
> *




No wings?


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## Macbrea (Aug 5, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *No Potion Belts! I don't care what your mother says...
> 
> please...  *




OK...OK...
Darn, that will leave me with another potion of clw

I assume, since bandoleers are in the same book that its not available either.


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## Macbrea (Aug 5, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> * Custom Rules for the Light Hearted Hack n' Slash
> Lizard Folk - +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, +2d8 HD, +1 Base Attack, +3 Ref, +5 Natural Armor, -3 Ranks/Skill, +6 Jump, +8 Swim, +4 Balance, Multiattack, Weapon Proficiency (Javelin, Greatclub, claws).
> *




Ahm, does this mean I am -3 ranks to in all skills at the start or that I am -3 ranks from max. Which means my max would be level?  

I will edit my character upto this point. Will need an answer on the skills to figure out what I actually have for skill points.


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## Kalanyr (Aug 5, 2002)

I'll change from Drow to Aasimar and be a cleric.Mmmmmmmm, tasty wisdom and skill bonus.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 5, 2002)

Macbrea said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Ahm, does this mean I am -3 ranks to in all skills at the start or that I am -3 ranks from max. Which means my max would be level?
> 
> I will edit my character upto this point. Will need an answer on the skills to figure out what I actually have for skill points. *




-3 Ranks/Skills means that you don't get skill points as if you were a 1st level character. 1st level characters get (x+Int)x4 skills. But, with -3Ranks/Skills you get (x+Int) skills. You already have skill ranks in Jump, Swim, and Balance that were given to you for your first two hit die, so you get to add those anyway.


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## Macbrea (Aug 5, 2002)

Roger, got that, will edit my character skills out.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 6, 2002)

I think I'm one of the few people that has the tools to give you all a complete fractal map of the world with accurate borders of the different regions, so I ask you all this:

Pick One Map, Because I'm only going to post 1:
Cities/Topography
Cities/Political Power
Cities/Regions

Topography will show mountains and plaines.
Political Power focuses on what county or country controls each area.
Regions refers to "The Badlands" "The Bez Desert" "The Dessert Desert"

These 3 are all easy to do, and I can have the map up in a couple days after I catch up with the IR.

Oh, and yes: All combat will include a grid for you to look at, as soon as I'm sure I can do it right. giving me a 64/64 Icon to represent your character will help (jpg or gif). Otherwise you will be labled with a colored circle like the creatures are.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 6, 2002)

Oh, I updated the Races stuff again, I found some things I forgot, or forgot to mentin. Any racial spell like abilities that they have are still there.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 7, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> * Custom Rules for the Light Hearted Hack n' Slash
> 
> Lizard Folk - +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, +2d8 HD, +1 Base Attack, +3 Ref, +5 Natural Armor, -3 Ranks/Skill, +6 Jump, +8 Swim, +4 Balance, Multiattack, Weapon Proficiency (Javelin, Greatclub, claws).*



Let me compare the Lizardman to a Saurial and see if they're OK for you, creamsteak:

There are 4 different races of Saurial in Dragon 292.
Bladebacks, Hornheads, Flyers, and Finheads.
I am hoping I can play a Longtail (a sauropod-based Saurial).

Saurial (Longtail) - +2 Str, +2 Cha, +2d8 HD, +1 Base Attack, +3 Ref, +4 Natural Armor, -3 Ranks/Skill, Multiattack, Large size.
(I took the Hornhead and changed the +2 INT to +2 CHA and decreased the natural armor from +5 to +4)

From Saurial qualities, Longtails have Cold Torpor (-5 to FORT saves and double damage vs cold environments), +4 to sonic based attacks, Scent feat, -4 to gas-based attacks, low-light vision and natural weapons. They have to use Saurial weapons and can't speak Common or any bonus language (except for Draconic) unless they spend language skill points for it.

Personally, I think it would be good if Saurials be granted a +4 circumstance bonus to Balance checks and attempts to Bull Rush or Trip them due to their tails. And please allow Longtail Saurials to have the Trample ability.
It fits the flavor of the race, and shouldn't be overpowering (it hasn't been at all in the Non-Iconic Adventure).


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## Creamsteak (Aug 7, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Let me compare the Lizardman to a Saurial and see if they're OK for you, creamsteak:
> 
> There are 4 different races of Saurial in Dragon 292.
> Bladebacks, Hornheads, Flyers, and Finheads.
> ...




Change Size to Medium.
Make speed 40 feet anyway (as all lizardfolk in this campaign have)
Natural Armor keep at +5
+2 Str, +2 Cha are fine if they take a -2 Int.
+1 Base Attack and +3 Ref save come from your 2d8 HD so that's fine.
Lose Cold Sturpor and gain Poison Immunity (as Lizardfolk have)
Lose +4 Sonic Based Attacks
They only get Scent if thier Wis is 11 or higher (my rule)
Drop the -4 to gas based attacks
Keep the Languages and skills as you have them
use Lizardfolk Weapon Proficiencies (Greatclub, Claw, Bite, Javelin)
+4 Racial Jump Swim and Balance from Tail

Tell me what you need trample for exactly? I don't want to kill your character idea, but in order to trample a medium sized creature you have to be large... and most lizardfolk are not large...

If you want Trample, increase size from medium to large and incur all the size penalties. You can have trample instead of multiattack as your racial feat if you choose to increase to large size.

All of this at a meager +1 ECL, is that at all close to a deal? If not, we can open up a chat if your around.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 7, 2002)

Currently Races look like this, and I think I almost found all my notes on the campaign world you guys are starting in. The general map will be up pretty soon...

Racial Selections 
Aasimar (Breton) 42 Points – As Aasimar with +4 Heal, and +4 Knowledge (Religion)
High Elf (High Elf) 42 Points – As High Elf with +4 Alchemy, and +4 Knowledge (Arcana)
Tiefling (Imp) 42 Points – As Tiefling with +4 Diplomacy, and +4 Gather Information
Human (Nord) 42 Points – As Human with Electricity Resistance 11+Class Level, Cold Resistance 7+Class Level, and Shocking Grasp 1/day as a 1st level sorcerer.
Human (Redguard) 42 Points – As Human with Rage 1/day, not winded after rage, and +4 on Fortitude saves against Poison or Disease.
Wood Elf (Red Elf) 42 Points – As Red-Elf with proficient in all bows and crossbows, and with free Weapon Focus in a single type of Bow or Crossbow.
Drow (Dark Elf) 36 Points – As Drow with Fire Resistance 11+Character Level, No Light Blindness, Male and Female receive +2 Cha.
Lizardfold (Lizardfolk) 36 Points – As Lizardfolk with base movement of 40 ft, and immune to poison.
Orc (Orc) 42 Points – As Orc with Armor Proficiency (Light, Medium, and Heavy), Shield Proficiency, Weapon Proficiency (Simple and Martial: all), and No Light Blindness.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 7, 2002)

Notice: I posted my 800th post two weeks ago, and I'm borderline on 950... humorous how being a moderator can increase your post count at a rate of 25 posts a day...


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## Creamsteak (Aug 7, 2002)

Um, stats are scattered all over this page... just use the ones I listed for each race in the Rogues Gallery, they are the "most" correct ones I have right now.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 7, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *+4 Racial Jump Swim and Balance from Tail
> 
> If you want Trample, increase size from medium to large and incur all the size penalties. You can have trample instead of multiattack as your racial feat if you choose to increase to large size.*



hmm....   for the most part, that sounds great, and it's a go!

It is important to me to have the Longtail be Large, but Trample isn't a necessity... just a neat ability.
Really, it does nothing other than make the target not be able to get out of the way of an Overrun. 

So it looks good - I just wanted to ask about the skills.
It doesn't make sense that a Longtail Saurial (which is really a dinosaur-man) would be good at Jumping or Swimming. 
They would probably be pretty bad at it, fairly immobile.
Is it OK that they get those bonuses instead to resisting Bull Rushes and Trips?
It's not important power-wise, just which flavor ability do you think is more appropriate?

A Saurial isn't a Lizardman, we're just using that as a good comparison.
It's a Dinosaur-man.

I looked for pictures on the net, but I can't find any.
Imagine a sauropod, like a Brontosaurus, but he is intelligent, humanlike and can walk on 2 legs.
Here's a 2E reference: http://silverlion.virtualave.net/fre/saurial.html


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## Creamsteak (Aug 7, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *hmm....   for the most part, that sounds great, and it's a go!
> 
> It is important to me to have the Longtail be Large, but Trample isn't a necessity... just a neat ability.
> Really, it does nothing other than make the target not be able to get out of the way of an Overrun.
> ...




Well the skills are the racial modifiers that you would have for being a lizardfolk. We are just assuming you are a rather abnormally big lizardfolk and  have some differences. The bonus vs. Trips and the resistance to bull rush don't sound good to me honestly. If you are around, click the chatroom button above and join channel: IR
I'm there, and we can figure this out quickly.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 7, 2002)

I'm sorry i didn't catch you before you replied- i went to sleep then.
I just checked the chat room, bur only see darkwolf (away, i think).

I'll join the thread in character in a bit - the skills are not really important, but I have to ask:  Why do you keep insisting that a Saurial is a Lizardman?  

They are as different as a elf is to a human.
They have similar abilities, but they don't hiss and live in swamps.
I know I'm treading into dangerous roleplaying territory here  but Saurials as I understand have a distince culture.
They were kidnapped by an Evil god (moander) and brought to the Lost Vale in FR, and fairly recently got released from slavery.

The younger Saurials are curious about the outside world, and the world will start seeing these very unique races soon as they start making names for themselves, which is how I want to play Brontos "Brawn" Longneck.
CG defender of Finder Wyvernspur (the Saurials revere him).
Too bad I can't use the Charm AND Retribution domains...


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## Creamsteak (Aug 8, 2002)

> +4 circumstance bonus to Balance checks and attempts to Bull Rush or Trip them due to their tails




Heh, well I guess my resistance is entirely because this is my baby we are playing in. My campaign world is my baby. I love it with quite a bit of myself, and I pride myself on all the good points about it. One of the good points is the um... freedom I provide my players. I load them down with leads till they have so many they could never accomplish them all, and then I give them complete freedom to take whatever jobs they choose. I let them make attachments at thier own leisure, and I use every player lead I get. That's my kind of game.

But it's still my baby. In my baby, sauriel seem quite odd. I decided, upon reading your description, that they could be the predecesors of the  lizardfolk, the brutish thugs that once were there. That's what I feel that sauriel can best represent in my campaign world. I don't feel that sauriel can represent dinosaur people... yet. I can fit that in as a character lead (an island of the dinosaur, like the 1st edition campaign based on that). It is a character lead I might use with you, if you follow it up.

This isn't Forgotten Realms. This isn't Scared Lands, Ravenloft, or Daggerfall. This isn't any of those, this is my strange, humerous, almost too generic campaign setting. Because of this, I'm quite protective of the setting. If I was using FR then I'd take my own hand to change it to fit player needs more, but this is my baby...

So in my final decision about your skills...

Fine, you can have your Bull rush and Trip attack resistance...

But it's exclusive to you, not your people.


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 8, 2002)

Creamsteak, can I ask you how common are Imps in your world and how are they regarded by other people? I've got certain wild ideas that maybe don't fit your setting.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 8, 2002)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> *Creamsteak, can I ask you how common are Imps in your world and how are they regarded by other people? I've got certain wild ideas that maybe don't fit your setting. *




Imps are very common... All of the races are very common in some region or another. Imps have the approximate reputation of FR's Kender, though a bit um... meaner.

They are not considered outsiders (they are a sub-race of human), but thier abilities were extrapolated from Tieflings.

Imps tend to be the smallest medium sized race in this campaign setting (nameless btw). The also tend to be greedy, snide, and rather um... agrivating. Most imps are beat up on as children, and they grow up hating the other races. Imps almost always get thier revenge though...

Female Imps mate with Bretons or Nords about 25% of the time... just so you know. It's generally accepted that any elves mate with elves, and humans mate with humans, but cross breading beyond that is exceptionally uncommon.

Imp heroes (ones that are parts of legends) tend to be fighters, despite thier lack of fighting capacity. I guess it's sort of interesting in that way, the same way Nord's revere thier clerics... Imps also are relatively short-lived compared to humans of other types, probably because they lack the heartiness of the other races. If you play an Imp, be a schemer, that really fits this campaign setting.

Often times Imp Characters are (despite their lack of it) the charismatic person in thier group, because of the way they deal with people. They are good at operating for governments, as agents and retrievers. They are probably the least likely race to work in a group, so they are often loners...

I could rant on for  awhile if you choose...


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 8, 2002)

Thank you; it seems to fit really well my character concept.
I'll tweak a few minor things (height and weight) but I think that's it.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 8, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *Heh, well I guess my resistance is entirely because this is my baby we are playing in. My campaign world is my baby.
> 
> I decided, upon reading your description, that they could be the predecesors of the  lizardfolk, the brutish thugs that once were there. *



I read you.

How bout I play him as a Saurial and he knows where he came from and how he got there, but he has to constantly explain to everyone that he's just a "big Lizardman"?

That gives me an idea - he can try to fake (badly) a snake-like hissssssss to better "fit in" in a world where Lizardfolk are accepted.

Or he doesn't know why he's different from the others, but simnply by process of elimination he must be a Lizardman.

I'll leave it up to you and your knowledge of your world as to how he can bring up where he's from (if he knows).

Character sheet will be upcoming.

P.S. I only mention the FR background because that's the context that they were presented in Dragon 292.
I actually am not a FR follower, and don't know anything about that other than the Dragon article.
So if you want to create a background for your world that involves a lost world that Brawn in from, I think that would be a lot better than the (slightly lame) background they have for Saurials in FR.

And to be honest - it took me about 6 years to want to play a Saurial - they just never seemed that realistic to me until recently.

P.P.S. If I chose to be a cleric, and I don't see info about dieties listed, could i take the Charm and Retribution domains?
A friendly, helpful, CG dinosaur-dude, but woe be to those that screw him over!
When he fights back, LOOK OUT!


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## Creamsteak (Aug 8, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I read you.
> 
> How bout I play him as a Saurial and he knows where he came from and how he got there, but he has to constantly explain to everyone that he's just a "big Lizardman"?
> 
> ...




You can mix and match domains. A Cleric can ask one deity a question with his Commune spell, and another deity the next day. Divine power is imbued to cleric's in general, though if you lost favor with all gods you would loose your cleric abilities. Also, gods you anger, or gots that are generally opposed to the reason you pray will not answer your calls.

Either lead is fine. Email me whenever you choose if you want any background elements to be added. Though I think I prefer this lead:

How bout I play him as a Saurial and he knows where he came from and how he got there, but he has to constantly explain to everyone that he's just a "big Lizardman"?

That gives me an idea - he can try to fake (badly) a snake-like hissssssss to better "fit in" in a world where Lizardfolk are accepted.

,cause it gives me more to work with.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 8, 2002)

sounds good!
I'm in the IR channel right now, BTW, talking to Sollir.


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## Dalamar (Aug 8, 2002)

Count me in, I'll wrap up a char in no time.


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## Macbrea (Aug 8, 2002)

I decided to color code my posts, so people can tell what language I am speaking in.  Common tongue and Draconic are the current colors that I am using.   Since, I was thinking Yorick sucks speaking common but is someone decent at Draconic.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 8, 2002)

Hmmmm..  if Yorick and Brawn talk to each other in common, they'll be almost exact!  
I'm having him use sea green for any communication.
If he speaks in Draconic, I just mention it in a blurb before he talks - that way, no memorization of colors is necessary.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 8, 2002)

All is good.


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## Darkwolf (Aug 8, 2002)

I'll follow Macbrea's system...Here's what I am using:Elven, Undercommon, Common, Draconic, Drow Sign Language
I will mention it also unless speaking common...but this way what people don't understand will be easily seen so they can ignore it.


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 8, 2002)

I'd like more if everyone picked up a color for his voice and put a tag when not speaking in common, something like

[draconic]Hi Yorick, how are you?[/draconic]
[draconic]Fine, thanks.[/draconic]

but I'll stick with the majority.


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## Macbrea (Aug 8, 2002)

The only problem i saw with that is it puts a bunch of ooc tags that break up the sentence....either way is fine. I don't mind switching back and forth between the two colors I planned on using. But then Yorick has to speech in two difference styles based on the language he is speaking.  He is very wise just not so bright. That is why he doesn't seem to grasp the human language very well.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 9, 2002)

ya, this is really tough to play him with that low of INT, but it's tempered by wisdom.
I really don't want to play him as a terrible-speaker. (I've already done the half-orc bit with Ubaar)
I spent extra language skill points just to have him speak good. 
He understands Draconic and Common, but to speak it is harder.
Draconic he'll speak more like normal, and not lisssp like a snake, and I'm gonna have him let the party know pretty soon he's not REALLY a full-blood lizardman pretty soon, but till then, you'll get bad Lizard-speech from Brawn.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

BTW, there is no rule about it, but in my campaign setting arcane casters tend to have the creative stylings of children. I tell my players that in order to be a mage, someone must have the intelligence of a wise old man, while maintaining the creativity and freedom of a child.

Divine magic is the otherway around. Divne casters must have the wisdom of a wise man, and the tempering of one as well...

There are no rules, so feel free to try whatever, but if this helps anyone decide how to role-play tell me.


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## Darkwolf (Aug 9, 2002)

That is fine for mages and I can see why..but what about sorcerers where magic comes naturally?


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

There's no rules about it DW. It just happens to be the case for many of them. You'll notice it in some of the NPCs you encounter.

The only reason it was mentioned was just in case anyone needed help coming up with traits to use for thier character...

Sorcerers do tend to play in the same rather youthful mindset in previous games, though there are always exceptions to those rules.

Basically it all started with one of my players ranting about how all wizards were too old and serious, so I decided to change my mindset for NPCs, and some players started to pick it up.

So um... up to you on how to play through it, and you will see NPC's that follow this "rule" and ones that don't.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

Heh, I know this is kinda sporatic, but here are some more things that you can work into your role-playing:

Drow: Live underground _sometimes_ and come from a very volcanic region. They have a great degree of resistance to the heat that builds up in the volcanic caverns they live in because of this, and they are not subject to the traditional light blindness. Thier skin colors range from all hues of blue to obsidian black, but there are no albino drow.

Lizardfolk: They are the only race that can survive drinking the waters of the trollands (along with Khajitte) and tend to be hostile fighters around trolls. Trolls are practiacally a major race in this campaign, so they will pop up from time to time.

Breton: Breton grow up in a _very_ religios culture, full of clerics and paladins. They are relatively wise, and don't enjoy Arcane magic very often. There also tends to be a rather large population of grumpy elderly bretons around.

Nord: Nord's live in the mountains in the center of the continent, and there are a few islands off the northern troll-lands. Both regions are cold, and have hostile electric creatures living in those regions. Luckily the nords adapted rather quickly to both elements.

Redguard: Redguard are a warrior race of dark skinned humanoids that often join the slave trade to hunt down lizardfolk as bounty hunters and mercenaries, or live in the lands of the Lizardfolk. Redguard weapons are rare, but are always masterwork.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

I'm going to start the official character checks, I'll post questions I have here.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

*Macbrea*
Yorick Slipperyscales



> Attacks:
> Claw (Natural/Primary) +5/+3 0'/PS (1d4+4 20/x2 M ) / Bite (Natural/Secondary) +3 0'/BPS (1d4+2 20/x2 M )
> *Unarmed (besided claws or bite) +5 /B (1d6+4 20/x2 M)
> *Flurry of Blows +3/+3 0'/B (1d6+4 20/x2 T )
> ...




*Change to this Format (C&P):*
Attacks: 2 claws +5 melee (or unarmed +5 melee), bite +3 melee; or javelin +4 ranged (or dagger +4 ranged)
Damage: Claw 1d4+4, unarmed 1d6+4, bite 1d4+2, javelin 1d6+4, dagger 1d4+4



> SA: Evasion, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Attack 1/day (DC 13)
> Vision: Normal
> AL: LN
> Sv: Fort +4, Ref +8, Will +5
> ...




*Change to this Format (C&P):*
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Flurry of Blows, Monk's Unarmed Strike, Stunning Attack 1/day (DC 13)
Special Qualities: Evasion, Lizardfolk Weapon Proficiency, Monk's Weapon Proficieny
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +8, Will +8
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8
Skills: Speak Language: Common +2, Balance +7, Jump +8, Swim +6, Tumble +4, Jump +4
Feats: Dodge, Multiattack.

Languages Spoken: Common, Draconic

*Last Note:* Some of this stuff is just my personal preference... ok all of it is, but if you just copy and paste it it will make me happy .


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

*Darkwolf*
Khala



> Attacks:
> Rapier +0 M 1d6 (P) 18-20 x2



*Change to this format (C&P):*
Attacks: Rapier +0 meee
Damage: Rapier 1d6



> SA: Drow SP abilites, SR 12, Fire Resistance 12, +2 will saves against spells and spell-like abilities, Darkvision 120', spells, familiar
> AL:N
> Saves: F: 2 R: 3 W: 2(4)
> Str: 10 Dex: 16 Con: 14 Int: 16 Wis: 10 Cha: 18
> ...



Your close but...
*Change to this Format (C&P):*
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Spell Like Abilities
Special Qualities: +2 to Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities, Darkvision 120, Drow Weapon Proficiency, Elven Racial Traits, Familiar (Raven), Fire Resistance 12, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Spell Resitance 12
Saves: Fort +2, Reflex +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 18.
Skills: +6 Concentration, +6 Knowledge: Arcana, +7 Spellcraft, +4 Listen, +4 Spot, +5 Search

Languages Spoken: Elven, Undercommon, Common, Draconic, Drow Sign Language


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## reapersaurus (Aug 9, 2002)

ooh - i'm sure Brawn's is gonna be messy.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

*novyet*
Fangtooth Tuskbreaker



> AC 17 (Masterwork Chain Shirt, Dex)
> 
> Fort +5
> Ref +3
> ...



Ok, your info looks good, but I have this prefered format I'm handing out:
*Change your info to look like this (C&P):*

AC: 17 (+3 Dex, +4 Chain Shirt)
Attacks: Masterwork Greataxe +8 melee (or Silver Dagger +7 melee); or javelin +4 ranged
Damage: Greataxe 1d12+9, Dagger 1d4+6, javelin 1d6+6.
Special Attacks: Rage 1/day (8 round duration)
Special Qualities: Armor Proficiency (Light), Armor Proficiency (Medium), Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Darkvision 60, Fast Movement, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency (all).
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +3, Will -2
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 6, Cha 10
Skills: Climb +10, Intimidate +4, Jump +10.
Feats: Power Attack

Languages Spoken: Common, Orc


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

*Lichtenhart*
Mak'Teh-Nar


> AC 17 (Studded Leather Amor, Dex)
> 
> Fort +2
> Ref +4
> ...



Stats=good etc. but...
*Change to look like this (C&P):*
Attacks: Shortspear +2 melee (or silvered Dagger +2 melee); or Mighty Composite Shortbow +4 ranged
Damage: Shortspear 1d8+3, Dagger 1d4+2, Shortbow 1d6+2
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +1d6, Spell Like Abilities.
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Cold resistance 5, Electricity Resistance 5, Fire Resistance 5, Rogue Weapon Proficiency, Armor Proficiency (Light).
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills: Bluff +7, Climb +4, Disable Device +10, Diplomacy +5, Gather information +8, Hide +10, Intimidate +5, Jump +5, Move Silently +8, Open Lock +10, Pick Pocket +8, Search +8, Spot +5, Tumble +7, Use Magic Device +4
Feats: Improved Initiative

Languages Spoken: Common, Orc, Draconic, Infernal, Elven


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## Creamsteak (Aug 9, 2002)

I'm stopping there till tomorrow, since I expect another stat block to pop up in the rogues gallery (either Kal or Sollir).


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## Creamsteak (Aug 10, 2002)

Delete, see the below.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 10, 2002)

My pantheons are pretty broad. Normally I just let players use the D&D information database to look over their gods before play, and let them read more in later, but since you asked, I'll try and do most of the pantheons that aren't that easy to find for 3rd edition.

*The Breton Pantheon*
*Use the D&D Pantheon*
*See Dieties and Demigods*
*Primary Diety: Elishar*
Add these dieties:
Elishar: Good, Healing, Knowledge, Luck, Protection, Sun
Ilmater: Good, Healing, Law, Strength, Suffering
Nobanion: Animal, Good, Law, Mobility
Torm: Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Strength
Tyr: Good, Knowledge, Law, Retribution, War

*The Nord Pantheon*
*Use the Asgardian Pantheon*
*See Dieties and Demigods*

*The Redguard Pantheon*
*Use the Pharaonic Pantheon*
*See Dieties and Demigods*

*The Imp Pantheon*
*Use the Olympian Pantheon*
*See Dieties and Demigods*

*The Elven Pantheon*
*Primary Diety: Corellon Larethian*
Aerdie Faenya: Air, Animal, Chaos, Elf, Good, Storm
Angharradh: Chaos, Elf, Good, Knowledge, Plant, Protection, Renewal
Corellon Larethian: Chaos, Elf, Good, Magic, Protection, War
Deep Sashelas: Chaos, Elf, Good, Knowledge, Ocean, Water
Erevan Ilesere: Chaos, Elf, Luck, Trickery
Fenmarel Mestarine: Animal, Chaos, Elf, Plant, Travel
Hanali Celanil: Chaos, Charm, Elf, Good, Magic, Protection
Labelas Enoreth: Chaos, Elf, Good, Knowledge, Time
Rillifane Rallathil: Chaos, Elf, Good, Plant, Protection
Sehanine Moonbow: Chaos, Elf, Good, Illusion, Knowledge, Moon, Travel
Shevarash: Chaos, Elf, Retribution, War
Solonor Thelandira: Chaos, Elf, Good, Plant, War

*The Drow Pantheon*
*Primary Diety: Lolth*
Elistraee: Chaos, Charm, Drow, Elf, Good, Moon, Portal
Ghaunadaur: Cavern, Chaos, Drow, Evil, Hatred, Slime
Kiaransalee: Chaos, Drow, Evil, Retribution, Undeath
Lolth: Chaos, Darkness, Destruction, Drow, Evil, Spider, Trickery
Servetarm: Chaos, Drow, Evil, Spider, War
Vhaeraun: Chaos, Drow, Evil, Travel, Trickery

*The Lizardfolk Pantheon*[/U]
*Use the Pharaonic Pantheon*
*See Dieties and Demigods*


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## reapersaurus (Aug 10, 2002)

does CRGreathouse's generator do output in "C&P" format?
http://mwtools.thyle.net/sb_new.html


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## Creamsteak (Aug 10, 2002)

Close, but not really. It prints all the stuff as one line rather than as a series of different lines.

My format is close to Monster Manual format, so if you use Straight Monster Manual format, I won't complain at all.

Hit Dice:
Intitiative:
Speed:
AC:
Attacks:
Damage:
Face/Reach:
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities:
Saves:
Abilities:
Skills:
Feats:


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## reapersaurus (Aug 10, 2002)

i can't seem to create a legible 62 x 62 image with my image editor - will this one do? (if you can shrink it properly)


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## Creamsteak (Aug 10, 2002)

I resized it, I'll update the map with it some time when I'm not about to pass out. It doesn't look quite as regal resized to 62x62, but um... nobody can really help that. It still has the appropriate look though.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 10, 2002)

i'm gone for a day and a half.
Halve Brawn attack as needed with Fullblade, please.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 13, 2002)

> Attacks:
> Claw-Claw-Tailslap +5 melee (1d4+4, 1d4+4, 1d4+2)
> *Fullblade +6 melee (2d8+6 if 2-handed 19-20/x2) can use one-or-two handed
> * Fullblade-Claw-Tailslap (2d8+4, 1d4+2, 1d4+2) Tailslap does 1d6 with spiked tail gauntlet
> ...




Like this:
Attacks: Fullblade +7 melee, (or 2 claws +6 melee, Tail Slap +4 melee)
Damage: Fullblade 2d8+6, claws 1d4+4, Tail Slap 1d6+2 melee
Face/Reach: 5ft. by 10ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Tail reach
Special Qualities: Poison immunity, scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +2
Abilities: str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 18
Skills: +5 Balance, +8 Diplomacy, Speak language (Common), Speak language (Draconic), Jump +5, Swim +6, Hide -3
Feats: Multiattack, Large & In Charge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade).

Languages spoken: Draconic, Common

Equipment
MW Saurial Fullblade (300 GP + Weapon Value) 
Saurial Spiked Chainmail (650 GP)
Saurial Spike Tail Gauntlet ????
Tower Shield (30 gp)
Heavy Lance (10 gp)

-------End Transmission------

OK, Q&A time...

Allright, your attack bonuses are really messed up. I put two different "types of attacks" up there to help you out. The first, is your armed attack. The second uses your natural attacks. I've never actually seen a creature that has an armed attack that can be combined with Claw/Claw Bite... but then again I'm not a rule master.

Large and In Charge: Write out the source, and write out the whole feat for me (cause I have no idea what it is)

Is a Fullblade a Huge Greatsword? Is it a weapon that "Breaks the Standards" for a large weapon, so it increases in damage one level and requires exotic weapon proficiency, like a bastard sword?

Spiked Tail Gauntlet = Strange... I know what your going for... but is it really necessary? I'm thinking since all it does is give you a d6 slashing damage instead of bludgeioning... it's not that necessary. I'll still accomadate if it's just an aspect you want.

Your over your GP limit (your chainmail costs x4 because it's for a non-humanoid and large (Saurial are Monstrous Humanoids in whatever source you got them from, right? Well that should still be in play.) If they are competely humanoid the cost for the armor is still 300 gp for being fitted for a large humanoid.

Edit: Checked something... Your a Reptillian Humanoid, so yes you pay 4x the base cost for armor. Your also an Aquatic Reptillian Humaoid if you choose (though I think your aiming for non-aquatic). Add 50 to the base cost for spikes... I think.

I'm not trying to cut you down at all, I just don't understand a lot of elements your trying to include because I've never had to deal with them before, and learning how to deal with them is what I want to do.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 13, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *-------End Transmission------
> 
> OK, Q&A time...
> 
> ...



Naw, I think that was very well-detailed, and I have NO problems with us trying to figure out a way to get it "right", and have fun.

First - I'll update the stat block shortly with only one change - Reach.
I was wondering about that, and anyone who knows the rules about it more than I can surmise is welcome, please.
I think most Large creatures get 10' reach.
Exceptions in the MM are things that walk on all fours, or don't have normal appendages.
Does that sound right? *

Second - the attacks.
I just posted to D&D Rules about natural attacks and weapons and the like, and NOONE knows how it works.
This is due to them not having any official source that I can find for how they work exactly.
The only source that I am aware of is Dragon 292 which has an extensive sidebar addressing this particular hole in the published rules.
I don't believe it was intended as alternative or optional rules.
It is written as official rules, which I believe they have done many times in Dragon (gone into more detail about some rules from time to time)

So in Dragon 292 (The issue with the Saurials), they specifically say that a natural-weapon creature (Lizardfolk, Saurials, etc) can go weapon-claw-tail, getting only 1xSTR bonus on the weapon, and the other attacks are considered secondary (1/2 STR bonus, -5 to attack)
That's by the rules as far as I can see.

What I don't know, is what happens (if anything) when he uses a weapon instead of a claw in the other hand.
No one knows, AFAIK, and it is totally your call, cs.

*LaiC:*
Large creatures enjoy several advantages over smaller opponents, including reach, increased damage potential, and bonuses to special maneuvers.

Large and in Charge
[General] You can prevent opponents from closing inside your reach.
Prerequisites: Reach (Large size or larger), Str 17+.
Benefit: When you make a successful attack of opportunity
against an opponent who is moving inside your threatened
area, you can force the opponent back to the square he was in
before he provoked the attack.
After you hit with your attack of opportunity, make an opposed
Strength check against your opponent. You gain a +4 bonus
for each size category larger than your opponent you are, and an
additional +1 bonus for every 5 points of damage you dealt with
your attack of opportunity. If you win the opposed check, your
opponent is pushed back 5 feet into the square he just left.

*Fullblade:*Huge
Fullblade 100 gp 2d8 19-20/x2 — 23 lb. Slashing
A fullblade is 18 inches longer than a greatsword, and is too large for a Medium-size creature
to use at all. A Large creature could use the fullblade with one hand, but would suffer the standard –4 nonproficiency penalty to its attack rolls, or with two hands as a martial weapon. A Large creature with the Exotics Weapon proficiency could use the fullblade in one hand with no penalty. A fullblade is also called an ogre’s greatsword.

Tail Spikes - no, it's not a critical aspect of the character, but it is one of the things that appeals to me that makes him more of an intelligent dinosaur.
I was basically fleshing him out, thinking, "If I was a warrior that had a tail that I could use to bludgeon people, wouldn't it be better if I clamped some spikes on that big 'ol tail o'mine?"

Armor costs: I thought it was double costs?
hmm....  it mentions "Saurials do not suffer any additional penalties for wearing armor, assuming that it has been modified to accomodate a tail."
I wonder if they mean what you say about "Reptilian Humanoid".
I checked their stat-block and it says "Large Humanoid (Reptilian)"

If it's too expensive, I'll just have him get some really cheap armor....  

P.S. I like statting out characters and expanding my knowledge of the system. Thanks for going thru it.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 13, 2002)

You have 10 foot reach, and that recieves no objections from me. That's what being a large/tall creature means, reach.

Actually, someone knows how it is supposed to work (Monte Cook). IMO it's either Claw/Claw/Tail or Normal attack rules, since Multi-attack really is only used in conjunction with natural weapons.

Large and In Charge sounds very very very strange. It sounds like it's a combination Bull Rush/Attack...

I think it needs to be vetoed. I'd prefer it if you selected another feat.

I think they made the weapon Huge in order to prevent medium sized characters from wielding it, but I think that doesn't sound right when translated compared to any other weapons... stat wise that is...  It's a rule-breaker weapon like a bastard sword... and it's not unbalanced IMO so it's fine.

Your Tail "gauntlet" will just be Tail Spikes. They cost 50 gp as the base price, and can be bought in B/P (like a morning Star). 1d8 damage with a x2 crit. They weigh 32 lbs and negate the balance/swim/jump and other properties of your tail.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 13, 2002)

wow.  1d8 - more than i was thinking!  
As you surmised, the tail spikes are more for characterization and logical approach to weaponry than anything else.

About LaiC: the feat is really the centerpiece of the section in Sword & Fist about Large creatures and how they could impact combat.
They talk about a Minotaur having levels in fighter or monk and how they could make PC's crap in their pants.  So I thought it would be fun to see how it could work for a PC. 
It's one of the reasons I wanted to play a large creature in a combat-heavy game.

It's not applicable AFAIK unless they try to move up within your reach and attack - not useable in a situation where the Large creatrure moves up to the smaller and attacks.

Let me know if you want me to remove it -   also, has anyone seen it used in any game they played?


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## Creamsteak (Aug 13, 2002)

I'm just really disturbed at the free bull rush in an AO (well not an actual Bull Rush, but a similar affect...)

And it will be hard for me to remember how to deal with... of course I'm notorious for dispising risking getting hit with an AO...

Are you sure there isn't another feat you can take though...

If there is another feat you can take, at least for now, that would please me. Later on, you can pick it up... let's say, when you have 4 total HD (so next level for you)... I'll even let you take it as a fighter bonus feat.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 13, 2002)

Kal is giving me a hand with your attacks/damage.

Attacks: Fullblade +7 melee, +4 Claw
Damage: Fullblade 2d8+4, Claw 1d4+2

Attacks: Fullblade +7 melee, Tailslap +4 melee
Damage: Fullblade 2d8+6, Tailslap 1d8+2

I "think" you can use either of these two attack methods as a full round action as I put them. You can't Fullblade/Claw/Tailslap without incurring Two Weapon Fighting penalties.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 13, 2002)

Sure!
I can substitute Power Attack for it, if you'd like.
That was going to be the next Fighter feat, so I'll look at getting LaiC later.

As for the attacks, you certainly can rule however you feel would be best for your game.... just know that weapon/claw/tail IS by the book rules, as far as I know.

If there is any other source that specifies natural weapon rules in 3E combat system for characters, I'd go by that, but I think Dragon 292 is the place where Wizards chose to publish them.

Is the Sage email address thesage@wizards.com, if that would make any difference? (i.e. if you are unconvinced of the validity of the rules source? - I wish I could post the whole 5 paragraph long article...)

oh- what's your verdict on the cost of armor?
If it's 4 times base, where's the souce for humanoid creatures getting the 4x cost? (I'm blanking on where to find that)

again, cs - it's your game we're playing in here, so you make the calls that make you feel the most comfortable.
BTW: If there's one rules tweak I'd wish for, it wouldn't be these - it'd be Divine Might being activated as a free action.


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## Darkwolf (Aug 13, 2002)

special block on page 105 of the PBB:
*Armor for Unusual Creatures*
....Armor for Large characters costs double and weighs twice as much....
Armor for a nonhumanoid creatures costs twice as much as the same armor for a humanoid...

So x4 cost.

My take on the natural attacks/weapon attacks is that there is no way you can use claw attacks and still swing a sword.  Most of the time the only natural attack you can get away with is a bite as that doesn't mess up your balance much.  If you start swinging fullblades and try to attack with your tail also I would rule you would end up on the ground in a tangled mess.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 13, 2002)

Darkwolf said:
			
		

> *special block on page 105 of the PBB:
> Armor for Unusual Creatures
> Armor for a nonhumanoid creatures costs twice as much as the same armor for a humanoid...
> 
> My take on the natural attacks/weapon attacks is : *



Saurials ARE humanoids.
Maybe people are not understanding or listening. 


> I checked their stat-block and it says "Large Humanoid (Reptilian)"



As for your take on natural attacks - I personally have no take.
I've only been quoting rules as best I can determine.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 13, 2002)

I just found another source:
Half-fiend template in MM:

It grants 2 claw attacks and a bite.
It gives the option of either 2 claws or +8/+3 attack with dagger, and also a secondary bite (as well as snakes).

But in general, I don't think stat-blocks are the best way to guess at rules.
The only place I know where it specifically states it is Dragon 292.

But if you choose to make it different, I'll have to decide whether to dump the Exotic WP: Fullblade and just go with huge 2-handed greatsword, or drop the Multiattack.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 13, 2002)

I'll ask the Sage (to make sure),

and the reason I want to wait before getting LaiC is because I'm going to adjust to a PC with reach before I adjust to a Player with an unfamiliar feat that affects his reach...

Saurials are Reptillian Humanoids which is not a Humanoid for armoring purposes. They can be targets spells and spell like abilities that affect Reptiles or Humanoids, and for items that only work for Reptiles or Humanoids.

However, they are Reptilian for purposes of armoring, meaning that it costs more to armor them completely. Helmets have to be accomadated for thier longer jaws, tails have to either be uncovered, or armor has to be fit for them. Thier legs are differently shaped from the traditional humanoids, and they have fins on thier heads. All of these things increase the cost to build your equipment.

Your example of the Half Fiend Medusa isn't helping you to get Weapon/Claw/Tailslap, follow this:

Here are all the seperate "attack modes" for the Medusa
Attack: 2 Claws +10 melee, Bite +3 melee, Snakes +5 melee
Attack: dagger+8/+3 melee, Bite +3 melee, Snakes +5 melee

No combinations of Dagger with Claws. The Bite (being secondary) suffers a -5 to all attack rolls since the Medusa doesn't have multi-attack. The Snakes are -5 but they have a higher attack bonus from weapon finesse. The reason it can't be +8 Dagger then +10 Claw is because of the lack of two weapon fighting abilities, incurring huge negatives to all attack rolls.

But, since I'm not sure, I'll just send an email.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 13, 2002)

you're right about the dagger thing - I'm getting confused now with the Rules post about iterative attacks.

And I sent an email last night.

Where is that listing about humanoids reptilians costing 4 times armor costs at?

oh - and I totally understand waiting for LaiC.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 13, 2002)

PHB on the page right after the armor tables, in the upper right hand corner .

Reptilian Humanoid count's as a Non-Humanoid for armoring purposes.

Oh, I checked my box, and I don't have any email from you.


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 14, 2002)

Mmmm, I think I missed something. I thought my previous round's action were move (from A10 to A4) and double move (tumbling from A4 to A2). So this round shouldn't I get to attack the troll before he slices me in half?


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## Creamsteak (Aug 14, 2002)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> *Mmmm, I think I missed something. I thought my previous round's action were move (from A10 to A4) and double move (tumbling from A4 to A2). So this round shouldn't I get to attack the troll before he slices me in half? *




I was wondering why you didn't try to make any attack, or at least delay till after it's round to attack. Check your post, you mention getting a Flanking bonus NEXT round, but you never mention that you want to attack the thing...


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## reapersaurus (Aug 14, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *PHB on the page right after the armor tables, in the upper right hand corner .
> 
> Reptilian Humanoid count's as a Non-Humanoid for armoring purposes.
> 
> Oh, I checked my box, and I don't have any email from you. *



you mean the page 105 box we've all been talking about?  LOL
It's amazing that little box has so much info in it.  

I have the first version, and in mine, it says nothing about reptilian humanoids being counted differently.
Are you joshing me, or does it really say that in a different version?

And I meant I sent an email to The Sage last night.

I noticed something else in that box, BTW:
it says that Tiny creatures get half protection from armor.
This would seem to suggest that Larger creatures would get twice protection from armor.
Why they didn't also include that in the same section I can only presume they didn't think of playewrs playing Large PC's (this oversight is continual throughout the PHB).


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## Darkwolf (Aug 14, 2002)

I think CS is saying as a house rule he is going to say that you have to pay more.

It would seem to suggest that larger creatures would get double protection.  But only if you are huge would I even say that this would work.(interpolating that tiny - small - medium - large - huge)


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 14, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *I was wondering why you didn't try to make any attack, or at least delay till after it's round to attack. Check your post, you mention getting a Flanking bonus NEXT round, but you never mention that you want to attack the thing... *




Ah, ok, a little misunderstanding. I was expecting a "what do you do in this round?" post, so I didn't mention my attack. Nevermind.


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## Macbrea (Aug 14, 2002)

I am hoping to get the troll caught up in a grapple.... that way he losses any dex he may have.. 


And doesn't threaten areas around him to hurt the rogue anymore.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 14, 2002)

that was an eye-opening move....   

once you did that, it kinda "forces" me to have Brawn join the grapple.
So that should be fun to see how this works out.

I'm not sure about: 
1) how many attacks the troll can do when being grappled ( i think only one, so that Rend ability of his should be nullified if we can keep him in grapple)
2) what kind of modifier there is to someone trying to melee strike a creature in a grapple.
Can you hit the friendly-grappler accidentally?

Fun stuff.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 17, 2002)

Everyone but Novyet (No post, no reward) gets 150 experience points. Congratulations on beating the crap out of my half-troll.

Now I assume you guys need to dispose of the corpse, rest, and find a lead or 10 that you want to follow.


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## Creamsteak (Aug 17, 2002)

Any Questions about the Half-Troll encounter? Any Questions about Half-Trolls?


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## reapersaurus (Aug 17, 2002)

ya - how much do our characters know about trolls?
About half-trolls?
How common are they, and is it uncommon to see them in a city?

What about the townsperson that's eaten? Are they truly dead?

Cool Template.
How does the mating for that thing go?


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## Creamsteak (Aug 18, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *ya - how much do our characters know about trolls?
> About half-trolls?
> How common are they, and is it uncommon to see them in a city?
> 
> ...




Your characters know that there are hundreds of troll tribes, and multiple types of trolls. You all know that there are civilized half-trolls, but I doubt any of you actually know one. They are exceptionally rare to see civilized.

The townsperson is a woman, who you guys have yet to identify or even check if she's alive.

Not a template, it's a sub-race of troll.

Half Trolls are the runts of two normal trolls mating. If two half trolls mated they would almost definitely have a half troll child. If a half troll mated with a normal troll, there would still be a large chance a half-troll would be born.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 27, 2002)

*SNAP *  (sound of patience snapping)

Hello?
Is anyone else playing this game?
You get one fight under your belt, and just take off?
I say reap anyone that doesn't post within 4 days, myself.
God, I'm sick of people joining a PbP adventure and then just ignoring it.  

Ok.  got that off my chest.
Why aren't characters talking to the guy offering the job?
I can't really add much more in character in this discussion, based on his reaction.
It would be nice if we had some participation so we can decide as a group which skulls to go crack.

I'm leaning towards the more straight-forward kobold-bounty, myself.

I don't trust this elf as far as I could throw him.
Oh.  Well I guess Brawn could throw him quite a ways actually.  (*Hmmmmm...   that's an idea.)


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 27, 2002)

Hey, the party's braggart is here. 

But reap's right: where have all the players gone?
Long time passing...


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## Macbrea (Aug 27, 2002)

I am here.  As a lizardman though, I cannot see good clothing as something that he would be willing to work for.  He would go along with the party if they are looking to head that way.  So, I am waiting for the party to decide if they really want to accept the payment.


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## Darkwolf (Aug 27, 2002)

Go ahead and throw him if you want...I'll help clean up the place if you want ;p


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## Creamsteak (Sep 2, 2002)

Name changed, thread bumped.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 16, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well you missed the post then where Darkwolf came up for breath, and hasn't gone back down. He wants to delay the rest of his questions for later, so his character is ready to move on.

He told you the answers to the first two questions he asked, so you can look at what I told him, but only for the first two...

I wouldn't use the word "supposed" since I'm not a DM that forces the players to do anything. Kal's characters personal motivation was to keep her alive, and now travel to Allimon to have her treated.

In Character, the reward? Well right now, the reward would be that you made a much closer friend out of Kalanyr's character by helping him do somethign that is a little against your own will. As far as any other rewards I don't think you have looked into those venues yet, but getting the woman treated seems to be preventing you guys from going frelancing.

I actually need just one or two posts that say "we buy a wagon, we buy a few horses, and we set off towards allimon with the rest of the group, the strange man, the wounded woman, and our treasure from the defeated troll." That would probably push the story along to it's next road, but then again you guys could do a million other things. 

I think if I presented you with more options of things to do, it would possibly overwhelm your group. Too many motivations can divide players, but if you all accomodate each other, that tends to work.

In my RL games, I basically run it this way. I give the players a world that is litterally overflowing with adventure to have, and they all pick one line and ride it till it's end. They tend to let one character lead them on a path at a time, and when that character's story arc is wrapped up, another player will have built up enough things he needs to do to open up a totally new story arc...

Just an example using your current leads,

Let's say you all travel to Allimon, and get the priest to help you by whatever means... this would satisfy Kal's characters current desires, and he could take a back seat to the next adventure, which is hunting down kobolds in the northern sea-caves, which satisfies brawn. By that point, I will have probably given enough ammunition for the group to find a more permanent adventure career following a guild, but if not, there will probably be a number of leads that involve Mak's family -just for instance.\\

But don't feel limited... if all else fails, post a couple times that your just "waiting" and I'll probably find some excuse to provide some more motivations...

I know my style is strange: so this is just an education into my style. As I told you once, it's my attempt to do the opposite of railroading: providing the characters unlimited freedom. You of course remember the line where I told you that the "white rocks" could easily be a seed for an epic adventure if only your character chooses to make that true, by attempting to fulfill his own ideas and concepts...

Maybe I'm a little too long-winded though, since this isn't a face-to-face game... afterall the logic is VERY different...


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## reapersaurus (Sep 17, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *I know my style is strange: so this is just an education into my style. As I told you once, it's my attempt to do the opposite of railroading: providing the characters unlimited freedom. You of course remember the line where I told you that the "white rocks" could easily be a seed for an epic adventure if only your character chooses to make that true, by attempting to fulfill his own ideas and concepts...
> 
> Maybe I'm a little too long-winded though, since this isn't a face-to-face game... afterall the logic is VERY different... *



CS, I don't believe there IS such a thing as too long-winded when it comes to PbP adventures....   remember, the viewer can always stop reading.

In my eyes, the more effort one takes to type and get their ideas across, the more care that shows, and concern with the adventure.

And yes - your style is quite strange to me - I think it's cool, and potentially could be good for online play, but it DOES require the 'active' player to actually spur the adventure on.

About the rocks - I remember you saying that, but I've done everything I can in-character to indulge that whimsical idea other than smash the plastic can and eat one (I actually thought i had him do that this morning (in character morning)?  eh...

I'd help the story along, but really, in-character, Brawn is not looking forward to doing a charity run for this one woman who was too stupid/unfortunate/weak enough to get caught like she did.
Brawn is a helpful, CG guy, but this doesn't exactly set off his 'protect the innocent' bells. Like i said before, he views this as a predator taking down one of the herd.

So someone else - PLEASE push the action to the next scene.


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 18, 2002)

I apologise to everyone for slowing the thread. 

Kalanyr, could Khelon have cured me yesterday?


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## Macbrea (Oct 11, 2002)

Just gonna move up our OOC section to the game.  Hmm, exactly how are going doing leveling?


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