# Metal School



## Dannyalcatraz

After reading:



> Black Sabbath - Liked some of the songs, like war pigs, paranoid and the one about the jet fighters
> Deep Purple - Who? (I have heard of them)
> Rush - Who?
> Led Zeppelin - They are great, but I'm not that big of a fan
> ZZ Top - Have 'Tush' but not heard anything else...
> Budgie - Who?
> Queen - Who? Kidding! They are AWESOME.
> Iron Maiden - Also awesome, but not keen on the new album.
> Ynqwie J. Malmsteen - Have one track but I seriously want to get more.




late in this ( http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=156322&page=1&pp=40 ) thread, it occurs to me that we older metalheads may not be doing the best job of passing along the history of our preferred music to the youngbloods, especially those who came to the genre alone and without guidance.

I laid down some basic background info on Black Sab, Rush, Deep Purple, and Budgie in posts #167 & #169 in that thread, but I know that's not an exhaustive list of important foundational bands.

So, Old-School Metalheads, lay down the knowlege for your younger bretheren- who should every metalhead know and respect for their contributions to the genre, if not actually enjoy, and some of their key tunes.


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## Ferret

That's right....its your fault  I can't wait to learn though! :d


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## Dannyalcatraz

How are you on Motorhead?  And did you know that Lemmy (bass, vox) and Fast Eddie Clark (guitars) both had other bands of note?

(Namely Hawkwind and Fastway, respectively.)


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## Nyaricus

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> So, Old-School Metalheads, lay down the knowlege for your younger bretheren- who should every metalhead know and respect for their contributions to the genre, if not actually enjoy, and some of their key tunes.



As a 'youngblood', at 19, I can attest that I know absolutely nothing about 'old skool' metal. Nope, nothing whatsoever.

I got my first taste of metal (as it were) via Limp Bizkit... I am thankfully much more mature in my musical selection now then compared with that drivel, but up until about a year and a half ago, I stuck mainly with nu metal bit. Slipknot, Mudvayne, Korn, Marilyn Manson, etc. And while these bands still hold some major favourites, I'm no longer so jaded. I don't have a big hate-on for anything that isn't nu metal anymore.

Now, I love everything from the bubbly power metal of Blind Guardian to the raw, razor-edged black metal band Nargaroth to the brutal viking sound-scape of Amon Amarth to the bouncy groove metal of Machine Head to the... well, you get the point. I *LOVE* metal!

But, I still know crap about Black Sabbath, the big-daddy of metal. Ironic, I suppose.

So, Mista Danny A., I'm more then willing to hear whatcha got to say 

cheers,
--N


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## Dannyalcatraz

Well, Ny, you follow the linky, you'll see what I had to say about post-Ozzy Black Sab & some other bands.

Black Sab _with_ Ozzy is a bit different.  Their early work usually had a more dirge-like pace, currently popular with some of the darker modern bands.  While later incarnations of the band never abandoned that style, they did do more uptempo songs than during the Ozzy era.  They dabbled in all kinds of supernatural imagery (The Wizard, N.I.B), drugs (Sweet Leaf), Sci Fi (Into the Void), and even straight-up folksy instrumentals (Laguna Sunrise).  According to a recent interview concerning their latest release, were it not for Geezer Butler, Sab would have had much less powerful lyrics- Ozzy usualy didn't know jack-all about the lyrics he was singing.

Because of Tony Iommi's disabilities, you're not going to hear a lot of lightning-like solos, but his solos' chord structures with occasional flares always seem to be a good fit with the song.


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## Ferret

Motorhead = Ace of Spades. Sorry but that's all I know! What are they like?

Of the ones I mentioned before (Hand of doom, Iron man, Never Say Die, Johnny Blade, I won't cry for you), which are w/ Ozzy and w/o Ozzy?


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## Dannyalcatraz

Ferret, all of the Sab tunes you mentioned are w/Ozzy.

Motorhead is kind of like a heavier, punkier version of AC/DC, or a metall-er version of the Ramones...in the sense that they have a sound and they stick to in, and if you've heard one of their songs, you've got a solid feel for everything else they've written.  IOW, if you liked Ace of Spades, you'd also like Bomber, Orgasmatron, Killed by Death, Stone Dead Forever, and so many other tunes.


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## Dannyalcatraz

KISS is the band that probably bridges the gap between hard rock & metal more than any other band of the 1970s.  Some of their stuff wouldn't feel out of place on a Sabbath album, others sound like Van Halen- its not an accident that they're one of the bands cited by many of the glam/hairmetal bands of the 1980s as a major influence.


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## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> KISS is the band that probably bridges the gap between hard rock & metal more than any other band of the 1970s.  Some of their stuff wouldn't feel out of place on a Sabbath album, others sound like Van Halen- its not an accident that they're one of the bands cited by many of the glam/hairmetal bands of the 1980s as a major influence.



And what a great segue - my next lesson is going to be "Alice Cooper and KISS, Spawning the Genre."


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## Thunderfoot

REPOSTED FROM ANOTHER THREAD. 

*Prologue/Vocabulary * 

Okay kiddies, Thunderfoot is not my name due to some sort of strange dwarven character I played, it was handed down as my street name because of my feet (Duh) as I played double bass - yes I am a drummer. So sit back and take notes, you may want to grab a soda/beer/blood and possibly something that will clog your arteries, I hear live bat is good.

Let's start with the very basics, some vocabulary - 

"Heavy Metal" was coined in the song Born to Be Wild by Steppenwolf. The song intended to point the phrasing to motorcycles, but some how got applied to the heavy rock sound (for at the time it WAS heavy) of the song and started a new wave of music in Britain and America.

"Wearing the Leather(s)" - Rob Halford of Judas Priest is the first known metalhead to wear leather. At the time his homosexuality was buried and known only to a few close associates, in the male homosexual scene, bondage was all the rage in the mid to late 70s. When Halford began to wear his bondage gear on stage, the look took off, accompanied by their breakout hit Hell Bent For Leather, a fashion movement was formed.

"Hard Rock" - The more melodic younger brother of Heavy Metal. Hard rock was the original term coined for the eventual 'heavy rock' movement. Hard rock is any music with loud distorted guitars, big drums, heavy flat line bass, but a more melodic spin on the music to include keyboards, light distintive vocals and harmoized guitar parts. There are several genres within or related to hard rock such as Arena Rock, Hair Metal, Pop Metal and Progressive Pop (qv below). Artists that have fallen into this category over the years include but are not limited to: Aerosmith, AC/DC, Alice Cooper, Asia, Boston, Cream, Foghat, GTR, Journey, KISS, Queen, Rush, Styx, Triumph, Van Halen, Vixen, Whitesnake, Yes, Zebra

"Arena Rock" - Hard Rock style popular between the late 70s and mid 80s, so named because the stage shows were so large they could only be performed in arenas. Concerts usually included extended guitar solos, drum solos, keyboard solos and even bass solos. Often times the crowd is encouraged to sing along and pyrotechnical and laser displays are the norm. Alice Cooper and KISS set the bar high with their early theatrical shows so many groups later had to come up with new and inovative ways to draw in the crowds. The best arenas show artists as reviewed in a ton of resources included (but are not limited to) AC/DC, Foreigner, Journey, Motley Crew, Rush, Scorpions, Styx, Triumph, Van Halen, and ZZ Top.

"Hair Metal/Pop Metal" - As Heavy Metal progressed through the 80s the later period saw a reprise of the 70s glam rock style invade the leather look of Britian. If leather was homo-erotic than wearing ladies lingere was even more so. Began in American in the New York club scene by veteran rockers Twisted Sister, Dee Snyder is quoted as saying, "our wives and girlfirends would do our make-up and hair and we would shop for clothing in the 'oh my god I'm fat' ladies departments." The look and sound was orginally fresh and cutting edge, but by the downfall of metal to the grunge era of the 90s, the 'Pop Metal" tag, where bands were engineered by producers and image consultants, started to water down and over use the 'power ballad'. Bands include (you know the rest): Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Dokken, Guns n' Roses, Kix, Motley Crew, Poison, Quiet Riot, Stryper, Trixter, Vixen, and Warrant.

"Progressive Pop/Rock/Metal" - This group of music is the most hard to define, while the hard edge is there, the musicianship of the individual players often times presses the very envelope of known music. Often times a band in this category will achieve commercial success with a single song or series of songs gaining new 'fans' only to have those same 'fans' disappear when they play their other selections. The lyrics are often deep in meaning, touching on political and social aspects that popular music shies away from. Groups that live here are: Black Sabbath (with Ronnie James Dio), Cream, Dream Theater, Emerson Lake and Palmer (Powell) or ELP, Kansas, Kings X, Rainbow (with Ronnie James Dio), Rush, Yngwie Malmsteen, Frank Zappa and Zebra.

"Death Metal/Black Metal" - Music form originating in the mid 80s as a result of the constant right wing protest groups touting Satanic influence of Heavy Metal music. Originally this music was musically no different than 'traditional' metal but used more minor keys and dimished chord progressions, as the style progressed the vocals became less pronounced and more of a 'growl' than a true metal 'scream'. Bands are not limited to the following: Black Angel, Corrosion of Conformity, Deth, Embalmed, GWAR, King Diamond, Rancid, Slayer, Voivod, and Witchblade.

"Speed Metal/Thrash" Speed metal was all about the speed baby, it wasn't enough to be loud and hard, you had to push 250 beats per minute (bpm). The music was noted by its all out assualt on the eardrums by 68th note guitar licks, quadruple triplets on the drums and a steady 'dubba-dubba" stroked on the bass. vocals ranged from audible to mindless gibberish sometimes melodically sang and other times just yelled and squalled. Thrash was the fusing of this new speed mentality with eneregy of punk infusing it with odd times, sudden breaks and other farsical but musically appealing techniques. Bands of note include: Anthrax, Megadeath, The Misfits, Motorhead, and the granddaddies of the genre Metallica (Please note that this was before the And Justice For ALL album when they became "ALTERNNICA.")

"Christian Metal" - the musical answer to the 'death metal' scene. Infused with positive lyrics and a message of salvation, this alternative to doom and gloom was looked upon by the 'true metal' community as a moronic step-child, however, just as metal asked to keep an open mind, further listening reveals many of these groups were quite talented. The "CM" tag actually spanned all of the known accepted forms of metal described above so you could literally find the positive equivallent to anything you may find aurally pleasing. Bands are listed with appropriate style behind name in parenths: Angelica (Progressive.Pop), Bloodgood (Hard Rock), Bride (Hard Rock/Arena), Holy Soldier (Hair/Arena), Jet Circus (Arena/Progressive), Mana (Hard Rock/Arena), Shout (Arena), Stryper (Hair/Pop/Arena), Tourniquet (Speed/Thrash), Throne (White/Black/), and Xalt (Arena/Pop)

That's enough for now. Next time we'll go over history Alice Cooper and KISS.


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## Thunderfoot

*METAL SCHOOL - CHAPTER 1 - Alice Cooper and KISS: Spawing the Genre*

From its inception, Rock n' Roll encompassed anything that wasn't another style of music, for instance Elvis, The Supremes, The Four Tops, The Beatles, The Doors and Jimi Hendrix were all Rock n' Roll, even though today they would be Oldies, Mowtown, and Classic.  It wasn't until the late 60s or early 70s that designations began to find their way into the music venacular.  While heavy rock had been around for quite some time, heavily influenced by the drug infused 60s art rock scene.  Jimi Hendrix is a fine example of a Blues/Rock guitarist that paved the way for Heavy Metal.  While songs like _Purple Haze_ and _All Along the Watchtower_ are renown for their heavily distorted guitar solos and in your face music, other Hendrix selections like _Little Wing_ were decidely more Blues inspired and mellow.

As noted earlier in the "Vocab/Prolgue" section, Heavy Metal was first coined in the late 60s by Steppenwolf for motorcycles and somehow was attached to the music, therefor it should come as no surprise that many bikers began to espouse the 'Heavy' sound of Rock n' Roll.  Concerts that were more about raucous and rougher life tended to have the more heavy sound and therefore drew the biker crowd.  This tended to give the image of the 'average' heavy rock listener as long-haired, unshaven, unkempt, tattooed and having a general disregard for authority and order.  During the rebellious holdovers from the 60s that were only old enough to remember and yet not participate this was a great chance to thumb their nose at the emerging 'Disco' scene.  

A young man from Detroit, Michigan come Phoenix, Arizona named Vincent Furnier - the year was 1968 and the Nazz a local band from Phoenix was traveling to Hollyweird and hitting the clubs.  The band's manager said they should get out of the 'run of the mill rut' they were in and do something different.  There are countless tales of how he arrived at the name Alice Cooper, some involve Ouija boards, others a reference to a ghost, and others, because it just sounded good, whatever the reason, the pre-glam man dressed in mascara that took the stage at the Cheetah Club certainly made a splash in the papers.  

By 1970 the band relocated to Alice's hometown of Detroit and things began to change forever, where on the west coast, fans raised peace signs, Detroit rockers raised fists and 'other appendages'.  It was here that Alice is quoted as saying, "We drove the stake through the heart of the hippie movement."  The shows generated buzz because no two shows were exactly the same, oh sure the music was, but they used whatever they could find in the hotel as props, fire extinguishers, bed sheets, towels, furniture, etc.  In Toronto a momentous occasion happened later that year, mistakenly believing that chickens could fly (later aped by the 70s TV show "WKRP in Cincinnati") Alice released a live chicken on stage.  As it flopped around Alice , still believing it could fly, thought it had been dazed by the lights and picked up the flailing bird and arched it into the crowd.  It went about ten rows back where it was then set upon by rabid fans and torn apart, the next day the papers screamed "Male Rock Singer Bites Head Off Chicken and Drinks Its Blood."  Later Ozzy Osbourne would try to duplicate this feat with a live dove and (accidentally) with a live bat.

The sick stage show that Alice is known for pretty much evolved from this one incident, "The sicker the fans are the sicker the stage show becomes.", he has been noted as saying.  Still lacking a producer for their music a young assistant from Toronto's Nebula-9  studios was assigned to go look at the band in order "to shut their manager up".  The assistant, Bob Erzin, not only liked the group, he want the shot at producing them, it was he that pulled the group apart and then put them together again, to include the polished stage show for which the group became known.  Each night Alice would 'sin' on stage only to be punished by dying at the end of the show, of course to be resurrected in time for the encore.  

Meanwhile a couple of teachers from New York with a fascination for Japanese Kabuki theater were hatching a plan to launch into stardom.  While performing as "Wicked Lester" alongside other such glam rockers as the New York Dolls, it was evident that the show was over for glam and that rock was going to move on without them.  In 1972 Chiam Witz and Paul Eisen, formerly of Wicked Lester, recruited Peter Crisscola from an ad he posted in the Rolling Stone and dropped an ad in the New York Village Voice and snagged Paul Frehley to round out their new foursome.  Cueing on Alice Cooper's shock the audience into submission tactics, they decided to outfit themselves in Kabuki makeup and adopt onstage personae in order to both function in normal life without having to explain why they were doing what they were doing and in order to give the air of mystery to their shows (this would later become the major selling point of the band, who were they and what do they REALLY look like).  They called themselves KISS.

Though the music was good and it was nicely produced for the time, it wasn't until their ALIVE! album hit the shelves did the band begin to see commercial success.  The live performance sounded so much better than the studio recordings because it was like the groups image on stage, bigger, badder and more terrifying.  Now armed with commercial success they were able to play larger arenas, book larger recording studios and play with better toys.  The image quickly outgrew the music and no one could escape the marketing genius of Chiam Witz (Gene Simmons).  Toys, clocks, posters, T-shirts, pillowcases, sheets, coloring books, model cars and a comic book (made with vials of the band member's blood mixed in the red ink) soon came to a store near you; KISS was no longer a band, they were an enterprise.  

Of course with fame comes controversy and as Gene said, with controversy comes larger pay checks.  KISS became the poster child of every anti-rock group in America, Knights In Satan's Service was supposedly the acronym for the name of the band, "The Demon" make-up (Gene) was based on a real Japanese demonic mythological creature, and other falsehoods soon had parents up in arms and kids paying more and more money to join the KISS Army.  Then the really big time hit, TV.  The recently released neo-Disco song "I was Made For Loving You" began eating up the charts and went triple platinum in no time, a TV appearance on "American Bandstand" proved that not only could they hold an audience on-stage, but also on screen, the reception was quite warm and the stars aligned for the made for TV movie "KISS Meets the Phantom of The Park".  Unfortunately, none of the group could act, and the breaks were directly applied.  However the damage had been done, a nation of future metalheads had been given the bite of doom.

Alice Cooper and KISS set the bar high for all rock band to follow, not just the Heavy Metal acts, but their HM legions took notes and went for the gusto, not only on stage, but in the studio.


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## Lanefan

If you want to know everything there is to know about metal from its inception until about 1993, there's a book called *Riff Kills Man!* by Martin Popoff that reviews every metal album he and his buddies could find...about 900 of 'em, if memory serves.  You'll find plenty to disagree with in the specific reviews...and a lot to agree with, as well...but as a way of knowing what's out there and how it all fits together, the book's a marvel.

I'm not sure if it's in print any more, but if you ever see it, *buy it*!  

Lanefan


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## Dannyalcatraz

I don't have that one (I've heard it's good, though), but I have a couple of books called *Masters of Metal* and *The Encyclopedia of Heavy Metal* (or some such).  The first is about the size of a comic book trade paperback, the latter is a massive softcover coffee-table book.

I'll have to dig them out to tell you more.


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## Fenris

Don't forget the influence of Punk Rock. Punk thrived in the late seventies to early eighties and seemed to get merged into the Speed metal genre. A lot of old music is seen as cross-over now. Heck, Motorhead ain't metal, it's just good old rock and roll. Like the Ramones.


I'll add two comments to this and back away and let TF and DA finish it up.

It seems that it used to be that Metal back in the eighties had a social message. This may be the punk influence, but going back and listenign to my old Metallica, Anthrax, Pantera and other bands of the day, many of the songs had very powerful social messages. Homelessness, Corruption, Drug addiction, Suicide. Many of the newer songs I hear just don't have that meaning to them. Of course it may be those aren't played on the radio and I don't hear them. 

Secondly. The classic rock station in town, you know the one that plays the Beatles, The Stones and Led Zepplin at least 6 times an hour, every hour. The have added Metallica to their play list    Damn I'm getting old.

PS How about some love for Henry Rollins! He may not be metal, but he sure is hard, and Black Flag was a very influential band.


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## Dannyalcatraz

The line between Punk and Metal is almost as blurry these days as the line between hard rock and Metal.  Just like KISS bridged the latter gap, Motorhead bridged the former.  They were _*the*_ metal band that punks liked and respected, and _*the*_  punk band that was metal enough for the headbangers and bikers to listen to.

Henry Rollins' body of work includes a lot of stuff that, with some slightly more pyrotechnic guitar work, would have made classic metal tunes.

As for message?  I don't know- there was a lot of it, but there were still plenty of bands that played old-fashioned metal.  Deep Purple had reunited.  Judas Priest still ruled arenas around the world.  Sabbath, Ozzy, AC/DC and their younger emulators were headlining massive tours and festivals.

Glam was on the rise, and not all of it was bad.  However, when it overwhelmed the airwaves, GnR & The Cult popped up to remind everyone what (mainstream) rock was supposed to be about.

And lets be honest, The Four Horsemen- Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax and Metal Church did include some messages in their work...but more often than not, it was still, lyrically, a lot of the same stupid but fun stuff the other bands were doing.


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## Fenris

Oh, Oh How could I leave out S.O.D. !


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## Fishbone

You didn't, and this leads into a great subject, Thrash subgenres
East Coast Thrash:
These bands have a much greater punk and NYHC influence. Anthrax and Overkill are the banner bands of this genres. The lyrics are more likely to be social and political, its a little faster, too. If you like this kind of thing than plenty of more "thrashy" NYHC will appeal to you. I recommend Visions of Disorder and Toxic Narcotic for starters.
Crossover Thrash
Crossover Thrash is the bridge between punk and metal. A major band in this was Stormtroopers of Death(S.O.D.)
This "supergroup" of Scott Ian and Charlie Benante from Anthrax, Dan Lilker from the grind band  Brutal Truth and the East Coast thrash outfit Nuclear Assault, and Billy Milano made up the group. Speak English or Die was a kick in the ass for crossover and is most noted for the song Milk, which is one of the first blast beats put out on a record.
Notable Crossover thrash bands:
Carnivore/Type O Negative, Suicidal Tendencies, Dirty Rotten Imbeciles/D.R.I., Cryptic Slaughter, Agnostic Front, Rigor Mortis, Discharge, Sacrilege.
West Coast/L.A./Bay Area thrash
Most successful form of thrash. Classical guitar influences, distorted bass and guitars with palm muting, blast beating and double bass use. Falsetto and singers with higher voices than other thrash metal subgenres are also typical for this.
 Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Testament, Vio-Lence, Exodus, Death Angel, Forbidden
Up next, Teutonic Thrash, the decline of thrash, and the birth of American/Floridian Death Metal.
Oh, and I'm 20.


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## Thunderfoot

Hey! Quit skippin ahead.   

I'll hit this soon as the punk movement was hardly more than a blip on the musical radar (socially, however, is a different story), but just to tide you over:
Punk as a movement was about social disorder and anarachy, by the time it died in the mid-late 70s (or more aptly described, cloned and re-animated) anarchy was no longer a viable solution (The promised music and social interation section.)  Thrash took punk energy and fused it with speed metal, well, speed and then took that punk social commentary and gave it a message that was more suited for changing social climate of the 80s.

Hope this sates your appetites.


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## DungeonmasterCal

We can't leave out the proto-metal bands such as Led Zeppelin who took the blues and cranked it all the way up.  Cream can also be placed in the pre-metal days.  In America, bands like the MC5 ordered us to kick out the jams, and Steppenwolf took us on a magic carpet ride.

The term "Heavy Metal" can be first traced to William S. Burrough's novel, "The Soft Machine", with a character named Uranian Willy, the Heavy Metal Kid.  His next novel, in 1964, "Nova Express" uses the term "heavy metal" as a metaphor for addictive drugs. The term first appeared in music in Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild", and hard rock never looked back.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Just so we don't forget them, BRING ON THE LADIES!

The first woman to really belt out hard rock type vocals was none other than Janice Joplin.

Heart's Ann & Nancy Williams followed in the 1970-80's.

Then you started seeing women really get into the game: Joan Jett, Lita Ford, Doro Pesch (of Warlock/Doro fame), and, of course, Wendy O Williams (Plasmatics/WOW fame).

And the hypershred talents of one Jennifer Batten.

Without these women and many more, you wouldn't have Kittie and other hard rockin' women today.


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## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> <SNIP>
> Heart's Ann & Nancy Williams followed in the 1970-80's.
> <SNIP>



Wilson - as in related to the Beach Boys and Wilson-Phillips.

I used to go to sleep at night with Nancy and Lita Ford over my bed...ah memories, no wonder I slept so well as a teen.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Damgotyasdtk [09asu dtr!!@!!

I hate it when I make an obvious mistake like that- thanks for the catch, T-foot!


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## Thunderfoot

*CHAPTER 2 - MUSIC! With a Purpose.* 
The time is 1973, the place London, England or was it New York, New York, who knows, who cares, the fact is the world is a crap hole, the music of disco is bleeding our ears and rock n' roll has been taken over by hippies, pre-teens, and goons in corporate suits.  There needs to be a change and it needs to happen now, the governments of the world are too caught up in stupidity to see the error of their ways, the industries of the world want to work us to death for a pittance and the religions of the world want us to pay and pray in order to find salvation.  We need something new, something bold, we need ANARCHY!

The beginnings of the punk movement are rooted in what is termed the protopunk wave of the late 60s.  Bands such as Velvet Underground, Patti Smith and MC5 were making music that instead of saying "we need peace and love" said, "we needed a revolution to change things and change it quickly".  John Lennon's penning of the Beatles hit "Revolution" was widely thought to be in direct effect of his reading the "Communist Manifesto" by Engles & Marx, however, even though it did influence his decision to hang in certain circles, it was the things that people inside these circles were saying that lead to the lyrics.  (That one's for free folks.)

The protopunks wanted change through removal of industrial workplaces, forceful removal of government officials and the tearing down of the 'love train' generation.  Though many of these acts started out in the hippie movement, they realized that peaceful protest meant being ignored.  The music that they played and the lyrics that they sang spoke volumes of rhetoric, but frankly was not all that well received by the public.  It was not much different from the hippie ballads but, the lyrics were more depressing, therefore, most people ignored them.  However, in the industrial centers of the Western world, the young people were listening, their families were scrapping by on the wages of their parents, their future was belittled by their teachers and instructors and they were generally ignored by their more affluent 'disco' loving yuppie scum.

The young wanted action, they wanted freedom, they wanted revenge!  Punk wanted the world to know that rock n roll had lost its way and therefore, they were bound to point it back in the right direction.  Rock n Roll  of the early 70s included anything that wasn't classified in another genre, such as the Carpenters, Billy Joel and Simon and Garfunkel; also bands such as Chicago were trying to cross the disco and rock world in order to sell records.  This was unacceptable, rock n' roll is noisy, rebellious, and gritty, the Carpenters were anything but.  So where disco was polished, punk was raw, where rock n' roll was namby pamby, punk was in your face, where folk was about peace, punk was about anarchy and revolution through force, where these forms had designer drugs, punk had heroine, shot like their music, straight into the veins.  

Often punk was performed by players that had something to say, but didn't really have a means to say it, so they chose music, often times, the performers had little or no experience on their instruments and it was with energy not musicianship that this message was driven home.  The Ramones, The Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Heartbreakers (not Tom Petty's band), Johnny Thunders and Blondie began performing in clubs in London and New York, especially CBGBs ripping their guitars and screaming for anarchy.  However, as punk music espoused anarchy, so too did the bands cling to their own 'respective' styles of punk.  The Ramones became movie stars with their coverage in "Rock and Roll High School", Blondie transitioned with the crossover hits "Heart of Glass" and "Call Me" into the discos and later helped to launched the rap revolution by releasing "Rapture", The Clash received mainstream radio airplay and the Sex Pistols received word of mouth street cred.

This varied way of 'doing business' led to the eventual takeover and absorption of punk into the New Wave music of the late 70s and early 80s, with former punkers becoming hard rockers (Joan Jett of the Runaways leading the Blackhearts up the charts), Disco Divas (the aforementioned Blondie), avante garde indie music acts (The Talking Heads), heavy metal guitar mavens (Lita Ford, also from the Runaways) and pop music queens (The Go-Gos).  But even with the music gone, the message stayed and all through the 80s the message was clear, this isn't enough.  By the time the end of the 80s arrived, the thrash and speed metal scene had absorbed the remaining punks and pushed their loud obnoxious music to the very edge of what they once were and beyond.

So what was it that made punk appealing, the message that we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore.  Even when neutered by the very corporate stooges that they were thumbing their noses at, the message was there, this has to change, and the sooner the better.  This attitude prevailed under the surface and eventually spawned another musical devolution, grunge.  

And for those that want to know about 'modern punk', the term is actually incorrect, the Emo and Screamo wannabes of the modern era wouldn't know punk rock if bit them on their hairy...Hey, you can't do this, I will rise up against you, I will prevail, BOLLOX!


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## Dannyalcatraz

Mmm...

Left out Black Flag & The Misfits...but not bad.

FWIW, I think Rancid does pretty good modern punk.


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## Nyaricus

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> And for those that want to know about 'modern punk', the term is actually incorrect, the Emo and Screamo wannnabes of the modern era wouldn't know punk rock if bit them and their hairy...Hey, you can't do this, I will rise up against you, I will prevail, BOLLOX!



Emo's been around since the 80s; what we call "emo" nowadays is simply the second coming.

cheers,
--N


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Mmm...
> 
> Left out Black Flag & The Misfits...but not bad.
> 
> FWIW, I think Rancid does pretty good modern punk.



Also left out the Butthole Surfers, The Dead Kennedys, The Lemonheads, etc...however, the point wasn't to point to bands in this section as most of them were done before they began. Rancid is a hybrid group, they are more akin to Anthrax and Metallica of the early days combining styles to create a new one than defining a style of the past.  Rancid will probably be called the "godfathers of <Insert Name Here>",  in the future. 


Ny - the original emo was the foundations of Grunge a movement that was disillusioned (meant to spell it that way) by the New Wave and Hair Bands 'new, better' statements. The modern Emo is a whole new animal,j ust like 'Alternative Rock' was originally called 'College Rock', which now equates to unsigned bands that play mostly Emo and Screamo, it morphed into something else and something with the same name took its place.  
Clear as mud, now?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

T-Foot, its good to see your gov't trained skills to such good & productive use!


----------



## jonathan swift

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> Emo's been around since the 80s; what we call "emo" nowadays is simply the second coming.
> 
> cheers,
> --N





Modern emo is more like 4th or 5th wave. You had your Fugazi's and Rites of Spring's, then the Sunny Days and Mineral's, then the Appleseed Casts' and Hum's, then the Jimmy Eat World's and Get Up Kids, and now like Dahsboard and stuff. And then you had the screamo and emocore things kinda going on off to the side.


----------



## Kurashu

hahahaha moden punk


hahaha...woo...I think I busted my gut.

"Punk" here is all about neon colors and spandex and listening to Green Day, blink-182, and Sum 41. Given Sum 41 is alright, but they aren't punk. 

I loved it when we had Punk Day at my school. Everyone was wearing Neon- Orange, Pink, & Green and black spandex. And I show up in jeans and a tee-shirt and I was accused of not dressing punk.



I think it was about that time I decided for sure my school's general population was stupid.


----------



## Fenris

Kurashu said:
			
		

> I loved it when we had Punk Day at my school. Everyone was wearing Neon- Orange, Pink, & Green and black spandex. And I show up in jeans and a tee-shirt and I was accused of not dressing punk.




A punk has anger in his eyes and blood in his mouth.

And more often than not, a beat down by the Cops.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I remember catching a video by one of the modern "punk" bands...

The guitarist was playing a pristine PRS...

It probably cost as much as the Sex Pistols' entire stage set when they first played "Anarchy in the UK" for the first time.  Including their clothing and the stage itself.

That was when whatever doubts I had to their authenticity were erased.


----------



## Kurashu

Fenris said:
			
		

> A punk has anger in his eyes and blood in his mouth.
> 
> And more often than not, a beat down by the Cops.





I can be angry. And I bit my cheek the other day, that bled for a while.

Do either of those count?

*hopeful optimism*


----------



## Ferret

I read about emo, quite surprised about the history. BUt I knew about the original punks, well a bit.

Keep bringing on the metal history!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Kurashu said:
			
		

> I can be angry. And I bit my cheek the other day, that bled for a while.
> 
> Do either of those count?
> 
> *hopeful optimism*



As a former punk that used to wear razor blades on my clothing to better injure my fellow punks while slam dancing.... what do you think?

Now if you had said, "the cop smashed me in the back of the head as I peed on his partner's shoes and I bit my tongue and blood gushed out." - I think we could have let you pass.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ferret said:
			
		

> I read about emo, quite surprised about the history. BUt I knew about the original punks, well a bit.
> 
> Keep bringing on the metal history!



Thank you, I live but to inform those of the younger generaetions of those that came before.  Well, not really, but it sounded good.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> I remember catching a video by one of the modern "punk" bands...
> 
> The guitarist was playing a pristine PRS...
> 
> It probably cost as much as the Sex Pistols' entire stage set when they first played "Anarchy in the UK" for the first time.  Including their clothing and the stage itself.
> 
> That was when whatever doubts I had to their authenticity were erased.



You are probably correct - a factory PRS runs about $2500, The Pistols rarely played on thier own stage, but got gigs in places that had existing stages that they 'built out'.   If I remember correctly, when Sid Vicious joined he stole the bass he used off of a band member of a group that he was playing drums in previously.   Most of the gear that they used in the first couple of albums was used or stolen.  The first album was actually recorded in an apratment with the drumset surrounded by matresses so they would get hauled off by the police for disturbing the peace (if you can believe that).


----------



## Kurashu

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> As a former punk that used to wear razor blades on my clothing to better injure my fellow punks while slam dancing.... what do you think?




Intense man. I doubt that'd fly in any modern mosh pit though.



			
				Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Now if you had said, "the cop smashed me in the back of the head as I peed on his partner's shoes and I bit my tongue and blood gushed out." - I think we could have let you pass.




It was sarcasm at any rate however, I'll keep notes on this one.


----------



## Kid Charlemagne

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Wilson - as in related to the Beach Boys and Wilson-Phillips.




Hmm?  No relation to  Brian-  only the Wilson in Wilson-Phillips is related to Brian Wilson of Beach Boys fame, not Ann and Nancy.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Kid Charlemagne said:
			
		

> Hmm?  No relation to  Brian-  only the Wilson in Wilson-Phillips is related to Brian Wilson of Beach Boys fame, not Ann and Nancy.



I remember reading that Ann and Nancy are cousins, let me check my sources for confirmation.  Obviously Carnie is Brian's child.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Bump for impending updates...


----------



## werk

Fenris said:
			
		

> Oh, Oh How could I leave out S.O.D. !




DIAMONDS.........and rust.


----------



## Ferret

Updates ! Woo!


----------



## BOZ

woo indeed!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Quick question y'all...

I was watching Headbanger's Ball a couple of weeks ago and caught a clip of Rob Halford singing something...and then we had an emergency broadcast break-in.  I didn't catch enough to recognize the song.

Does anyone know if JP has a new album on the way or if Rob doing another solo project?


----------



## Thunderfoot

The last album was realeased in 2005 (has it really been that long?) so it is _possible _ that the video you saw was off that release, but I will dredge the muck pits for more confirmation.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Danny - my sources tell me that you probably saw "Forgotten Generation"
Halford has released a compilation/update CD entitled 'Metal God - Essentials Vol 1' and there are 2 new songs included - the previously mentioned and "Drop Out".  "FG" is the released single.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

D'ya know if it included JP stuff?

It was concert footage- recent, because RH was bald- and the long shot of the band looked more JP than his solo efforts.  You know...big stage, lots of speakers, etc.

FWIW, I saw what seems to be new Iron Maiden in another episode of the Ball...sounds good.


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Yeah, JP released "Judas Priest Angel Of Retribution" in 2005.

Maiden released "Matter Of Life And Death" in 2006.

Metal is alive and well.


----------



## Thunderfoot

The new Halford stuff is very much like Priest. (go figure.) If you go here you can probably see the video that you saw.  Go to the music section, a video should pop up and start playing.

Maiden's "A Matter of Life and Death" will be 1 year old on August 28th (they are still on tour in Europe promoting it) so new singles from that release are a solid possibility.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

That's the one!

The new (to me, at least) video was for "The Reincarnation Of Benjamin Breeg"


----------



## Thunderfoot

Glad to have been of service


----------



## Thunderfoot

*Chapter 3 – The Second Coming (The New British Invasion)*
The 70s were humming along nicely; the 60s love-fest was over, Vietnam was coming to the close and Disco hadn’t yet been born.  Former 60s Heavy Rock gods Led Zeppelin, The Who and Black Sabbath were still kicking around the block and newcomers Judas Priest were attracting a fan base with their blues/jazz/rock fusion rhythms; a new generation of English teenagers were preparing for their meteoric rise.  With the deaths of Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and Janice Joplin, the raw rock charts had some major holes in the roster.  At the conclusion of the Montreux Jazz Festival in December of 1971, a young band was scheduled to begin recording their next album at the Casino location that the Festival used as their main stage.

The stage and casino burned down and the group wrote a song about the experience of losing this pristine site and the subsequent search for an alternate location.  The song was “Smoke on the Water” and the band was Deep Purple.  As a side note, the only song not recorded at the ‘Grand Hotel” made famous by the song was “Smoke on the Water”.  The lyrics were recorded there, but the instrumentation was actually recorded at the Casino during a sound check and layout session before the great conflagration.

Deep Purple had their first bonafide hit record, _Machine Head_ and the single “Smoke on the Water” hit #1 in 1973 a year after the albums release (originally the band didn’t think it would make it on the charts and waited to release it as a ‘bridging’ single prior to their next studio release.)  Following the success of Deep Purple, Great Britain once again paraded the heavy music talent to shape a new music sensation.  Bands such as Deep Purple split off bands such as Rainbow and Whitesnake, led a charge and were followed closely by Iron Maiden, Saxon, Angel Witch, Motorhead and pop opera sensations Queen.   

The English metal scene was much different than its counterpart in America; while American rock had started to mold and starve off of the leftover 60s sensations, the Brit metal bands began to explore new ways of recording and new musical techniques by studying other diverse musical styles, such as folk, country and western, classical and jazz/funk.  So different was this music that the American public fell into bed with the sin of music, Disco (moment of silence for stupidity).  With rare exceptions, nearly all metal and hard rock bands of the early 70s came from Europe and not until their establishment of the genre did Americans respond by the mid 70s.  

But the English scene brought both great new innovations and blinding tragedy to the playing field.  The Soundhouse, a heavy metal disco night ran out of The Bandwagon a nightclub attached to the Prince of Wales public (pub) house in Kingsbury (Northwest London).  The club nights became so popular that established groups such as Judas Priest, Sammy Hagar (recently departed from Montrose), and April Wine began showing up to put their fingers on the pulse of the fans, often mingling directly with them, buying them pints and asking which bands they thought were hot.  

The most significant contributions to the culture of rock that The Soundhouse added, were the air guitar and ‘headbanging’ competitions, but also the rampant drug and alcohol abuse and the habit of changing the bands personnel moments before taking the stage.   Often times these disbanded musicians would team up and form new groups, only to break-up and start the whole cycle over.
As the 70s passed the mid point (about ‘76’) the American rock scene began to wake from its long and silent sleep and future artists from the European music scene would once again be influenced by American music, but the acts they would listen to had stayed focused on music played by these pivotal groups in metal history.  Their wild, loud and heavy rock n’ roll sustained the nation of metalheads while the rock airwaves were littered by The Captain and Tenniel, ABBA, The Carpenters and The Bee Gees; and for their contributions we should be truly and eternally thankful.






(Up next – an appendix of hierarchal history – the Deep Purple Syndrome)


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Re: Montrose

Ronnie Montrose, for those who don't know, is kind of the pre-Satriani Satriani.  While his discography contains a fair amount of mainstream rock, complete with vocalists (like the aforementioned Sammy Hagar), it also includes a lot of really cool sci-fi themed instrumentals.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Re: Montrose
> 
> Ronnie Montrose, for those who don't know, is kind of the pre-Satriani Satriani.  While his discography contains a fair amount of mainstream rock, complete with vocalists (like the aforementioned Sammy Hagar), it also includes a lot of really cool sci-fi themed instrumentals.



And is definitely worth checking out!


----------



## Thunderfoot

*Appendix A – The Deep Purple Syndrome (A Heavy Metal Family Tree)*
The original line up of Deep Purple consisted of Richie Blackmore (Guitar), Ian Paice (Drums), Rod Evans (Vocals), Nick Simper(Bass) and Jon Lord (Keyboards).  They proved to be a force of Jazz influenced Blues musicians with a head for the rock n’ roll lifestyle.  But the group began to have creative differences from nearly the outset.  Once the legendary group began to have internal personnel issues (mostly because of Richie Blackmore’s reportedly odd behavior), the line up began to change quickly and often.  

Original singer Rod Evans and Bass player Nick Simper were sacked after the band’s record label went belly up.  The rumors said it had to do with the lighter music Evans was pursuing, most notably a ditty penned for a woman in the musical _Hair_ he was trying to seduce; the band, looking for a heavier sound, took that moment to drop them both. Ian Gillan and Roger Glover were recruited from the band Episode Six and would later take the group to new musical heights.  This is the legendary line-up that recorded the hits “Smoke on the Water”, “Highway Star” and “Space Truckin’”.

When Gillan and Glover walked after Blackmore (their tour roommate) started to ‘act strangely’, an unknown singer by the name of David Coverdale took Gillan’s place and Glenn Hughes replaced Glover.  (Gillan and Glover contacted former Episode Six drummer Mick Underwood and created the band Gillan) Though the album (_Stormbringer_) was a success and the group had several additional singles that charted and were receiving heavy rotation, Blackmore finally left the group and formed Rainbow with singer Ronnie James Dio and drummer Cozy Powell.  Coverdale, crushed went penned and turned in his resignation to the manager only to be told he was quitting a band that no longer existed.

The remaining members decided that they should try to make a go of it. Hughes suggested that Coverdale check out this hot young guitarist that he had done some session work with named Tommy Bolin.  Coverdale liked what he heard and convinced the other members it was meant to be and replaced ‘the irreplaceable’ Blackmore with Bolin.  Hughes helped Bolin to find his musical confidence and soon Bolin started filling the void of Blackmore’s instrumental genius by writing the bulk of the songs on the group’s _Come Taste the Band _album.  The band finally called it quits in 1976.

After Purple Coverdale formed his own band Whitesnake, meanwhile Ronnie Dio left Rainbow to join Black Sabbath so singer Graham Bonnet took over; he later left to join the Michael Schenker Group (MSG) and to form Alcatrazz with Yngwie Malmsteen (guitar).  Bonnet and Powell (who then joined Black Sabbath) were replaced by Joe Lynn Turner (vocals) and Bobbi Rondinelli (drums). Turner later left with Rondinelli to replace Dio and Powell in Black Sabbath.

Coverdale’s Whitesnake included former Purple alumni Ian Paice, Jon Lord and Cozy Powell & Dio’s Band Dio also had former Black Sabbath/Purple alumni.  The original band eventually reformed in 1984 and after a year Gillan was once again gone, this time replaced by Joe Lynn Turner.  Turner quit, to join former Alcatrazz guitarist Malmsteen in Rising Force.

As you can see this gets convoluted, so let me simplify:

Deep Purple had: Richie Blackmore, Ian Paice, Jon Lord, Ian Gillan, Roger Glover, David Coverdale, Glenn Hughes, Joe Lynn Turner

Rainbow: Richie Blackmore, Ronnie James Dio, Glenn Hughes, Joe Lynn Turner, Graham Bonnet, Bobbi Rondinelli, Jimmy Bain, Cozy Powell

Black Sabbath: Ronnie James Dio, Vinny Appice, Ian Gillan, Cozy Powell, Bobbi Rondinelli, Glenn Hughes

Whitesnake: David Coverdale, Ian Paice, Jon Lord, Cozy Powell, Vivian Campbell, Rudy Sarzo, Doug Aldrich

Dio: Ronnie James Dio, Vinny Appice, Vivian Campbell, Jimmy Bain, Rudy Sarzo, Doug Aldrich

Associated Bands: Quiet Riot(2), Dixie Dregs(2), Winger(2), Ozzy Osbourne(4), Alcatrazz(3), Gillan(2), Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force(8), Thin Lizzy(3), Paice Ashton & Lord (4)

Other Prominent Purple Alumni: Joe Satriani (Solo artist, taught Steve Vai (David Lee Roth, Solo, Alcatrazz and Whitesnake) and Kirk Hammet (Metallica), Steve Morse (Kansas, Dixie Dregs)

If you wanted to really get into this, you could add links to all sorts of Heavy Metal acts but as you can tell, this family tree forks, bends back and branches all over heavy rock.  Deep Purple can be pointed to as probably one of the most influential bands in Heavy Metal history strictly on the strength of personnel alone.  And you thought Kevin Bacon was connected.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Very thorough, and you _still _missed some!  (Of course, almost everybody in music knows everybody).

You missed Rainbow (1975-77, 1994) keyboardist Tony Carey, who had a solo career which featured "Fine Fine Day" and another band, Planet P Project (most noted for its hit "Why Me?" and whose name is a reference to Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers).

Yngwie J. Malmsteen started off with the band Steeler.  He also worked with Joe Lynn Turner...formerly of Fandango and a man who worked with YJM and with Blackmore in Deep Purple & Rainbow also has solo albums with Glenn Hughes...

Alumni from YJM's Rising Force bands include Jens Johannsen, who has worked with the phenominal jazz bass player Jonas Hellborg and recording legend Ginger Baker (of Cream, Blind Faith, Masters of Reality, Hawkwind, Public Image Ltd. and others).

Baker also worked with Bill Laswell.

Bill Laswell and Jonas Hellborg are both incredible bass players whose discography contains sooooo many people that I don't have time to list them all...but metalheads should take note that Laswell helped bring Buckethead to prominence (sometime member of G'n'R), and worked with Bootsy Collins in a band called Praxis...after which Bootsy did a metal album under the name Zillatron with Laswell and Buckethead.

Hellborg's work includes work with Buckethead as well, and the incredible work of the late Shawn Lane.  He has a taste for eastern flavored jazz and speedy metal.

Shawn Lane?  His shredwork on his Vigier Surfreter (_fretless_) guitar is worth investigating.

Public Image Limited was formed by John Lydon of the Sex Pistols, and successful soloist Jah Wobble.

Hawkwind included members like Lemmy of Motorhead and Michael Moorcock (yes, the writer).  Motorhead member Fast Eddie Clark and UFO bassist formed Fastway with Robert Plant-wannabe Dave King (of Flogging Molly, and after Fastway, Katmandu {with Mandy Meyer of Krokus})

Graham Bonnet was in a band with YJM-wannabe Chris Impellitieri.

Ronnie James Dio started off in a band called Elf.

Ritchie Blackmore is currently recording with Candace Night as Blackmore's Night- a pseudo-folk-rock band influenced by rennaisance music.

Satriani taught not only Steve Vai and Kirk Hammet, but also Alex Skolnick (Savatage, Testament, Alex Skolnick Trio (a jazz ensemble),  Charlie Hunter (a jazz phenom), David Bryson (Counting Crows), Kevin Cadogan (Third Eye Blind), Larry LaLonde (Primus, Possessed),  Rick Hunolt (Exodus), Tim Calvert (Forbidden, Nevermore), and Phil Kettner (Laaz Rockit).

Of those, Vai is probably his most notable of all- when Satch met him, he couldn't play at all, and after Joe's lessons, he got the role of lead axeman for Frank Zappa.

As you can see, you could just do this for days and days...

If I kept up at this, we'd quickly get into the prog-rock guys whose family tree is just as gnarly, mainly because of Yes and King Crimson.

You see, Greg Lake of Emerson, Lake, and Palmer started off in King Crimson and Bill Bruford of Yes left to join KC, bringing in Plastic Ono Band's Alan White...Ono?  That gets us to John Lennon & the Beatles!

Sorry...this is somewhat addictive to me.


----------



## megamania

Whom else has released records in the past 2 years?   I am more of a glam or if you wish- hairband enthusist but I enjoy harder stuff also.


Anything from AC / DC in particular?


----------



## MrFilthyIke

megamania said:
			
		

> Whom else has released records in the past 2 years?   I am more of a glam or if you wish- hairband enthusist but I enjoy harder stuff also.
> 
> 
> Anything from AC / DC in particular?




I prophesize that the members of AC/DC will die on stage.  ALL OF THEM.  Most likely at the same time.  So yeah, AC/DC is still around.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Past 2 years?  Just off the top of my head (thus, not exhaustive) and in no particular order:

Corrosion of Conformity
Korn
System of a Down
Tool
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Ozzy Osbourne
Black Label Society
Megadeth
Lacuna Coil
Drowning Pool
Joe Satriani
Queens of the Stone Age
Sevendust
Bad Brains
Chevelle
Buckethead
Yngwie Malmsteen
Helloween
Helmet
Army of Anyone (the DeLeo bros. of STP plus the lead singer from Filter)
Nine Inch Nails
Killswitch Engage
Velvet Revolver
Rockstar Supernova
Chris Cornell
Audioslave
Tony Iommi (solo)
Ritchie Blackmore (with Blackmore's Night)
Black Stone Cherry
Mastodon
Trivium
Muse
Avenged Sevenfold
My Chemical Romance
Vernon Reid (with Masque)
Alex Skolnick (with Alex Skolnick Trio)


----------



## Thunderfoot

Danny - and even in your attempt to be thorough, you missed the fact that Jens Johansen also played session work with Dio.  That was why I dropped the little caveat at the end.  The fact is, the lines from Deep Purple get so convaluted that they become almost untraceable, especially where the members I listed by name are involved.  BTW, your album listing is very nice, I think you hit the major players.  

Megamania - As for AC/DC, I don't expect them to release anything new for a while.  Their label has kiboshed the last three attempts at album releases as 'dated material'.  However, they haven't stopped touring in all that time.  If there is a label shake-up (there were some rumors, but I haven't heard anything lately) the chances will probably increase, because on strength of name alone, AC/DC can drop a Gold or Platinum record by crapping on a vinyl disc.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Danny - and even in your attempt to be thorough...




Oh, I wasn't attempting to be thorough...I was just adding some more gnarls to the tree.

From your starting point, I could have traced bandmate connections to Eric Clapton, the Yardbirds, Zeppelin, David Bowie blah blah blah into Soul, New Wave, Funk, Punk and even crooners like Frank Sinatra.

And that's without dipping into the pool of guest spots, session work, one-shot supergroups, side projects and stuff that never saw the inside of a DJ's booth (like Rick James' & Neil Young's band, the Mynah Birds Motown recordings).

I mean...do you know how many albums *Kip Winger* played bass or sang on (with Kix and Alice Cooper, for example) besides his stint as front man for his own band Winger? 

But I had to stop _somewhere!_

Simply put, rock music is incestuous.


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> AC/DC can drop a Gold or Platinum record by crapping on a vinyl disc.




*laugh*

So true...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Y'know, I hear Brian Johnson is constipated...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Just read on Wikipedia that there is an as yet untitled AC/DC release slated for 2008.

Waiting to see...


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Y'know, I hear Brian Johnson is constipated...




Well, considering he's hinted at having been visited by a dead Bon Scott, maybe he's still scared s@#tless.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

More album releases of the past couple of years (I glanced at my collection this time)

Shadow's Fall
King's X
Ty Tabor
Doug Pinnick's Poundhouse
Probot
Static X
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Evanescence
Smashing Pumpkins
Gojira
Jesu
Mars Volta
Colonel Claypool's Bucket of Bernie Brains
MSG
Uli Jon Roth
Deftones
Soulfly
Darkness
John 5
Linkin Park
Dream Theater
Black Sabbath (best of Dio + new)
Pantera (best of)
Ministry
Eagles of Death Metal
Auf Der Maur
Budgie
Jimmy's Chicken Shack
Queensryche
Rush
Tesla
Dokken
Wolfmother


----------



## Nyaricus

I'll throw out the Wikipedia link for albums release in:

2005
2006
2007

So that you can check it out at your leisure.



Here are some of my fav releases of the respective years:

----2005
*As I Lay Dying* - Shadows Are Security [death metal/metalcore]
*Bloodsimple* - A Cruel World [nu metal/metalcore]
*Burn the Priest* - Burn the Priest re-release [death metal/grindcore]
*Dark Tranquillity* - Character [melodic death metal/Gothenburg]
*Disturbed* - Ten Thousand Fists [traditional heavy metal/hard rock]
*Gojira* - The Link re-release [progressive death metal]
*Opeth* - Ghost Reveries [progressive death metal]
*Rammstein* - Rosenrot [nu metal/industrial metal]
*Roadrunner United* - The Allstar Sessions [various; this is a disk featuring past & presetn artists from the Roadrunner label]
*Slipknot* - 9.0 Live [nu metal w/industrial metal overtones]
*Static-X* - Start a War [nu metal/industrial metal]
*System of a Down* - Mesmerize [experimental/progressive hard rock {really, in a league all their own}]

----2006
*Amon Amarth* - With Oden on Our Side [melodic death metal]
*As I Lay Dying* - A Long March: The First Recordings re-release/compilation [death metal/metalcore]
*Cradle of Filth* - Thornography [symphonic "dark" metal; essentually a mix of extreme metal genres & hard to define]
*Deicide* - The Stench of Redemption [death metal w/ brutal death and speed metal influences]
*Demon Hunter* - The Triptych [nu metal/metalcore]
*DevilDriver* - The Fury of Our Maker's Hand [death/groove metal]
*Gojira* - From Mars to Sirius [progressive death metal]
*Lamb of God* - New American Gospel re-release [half-thrash w/ death metal/grindcore influences]
*Lamb of God* - Sacrament [half-thrash/metalcore]
*Thine Eyes Bleed* - In the Wake of Separation [death/thrash metal]

----2007 (well, thus far)
*Dimmu Borgir* - In Sorte Diaboli [symphonic black metal]
*Finntroll* - Ur Jordens Djup [folk/death metal]
*Job For a Cowboy* - Genesis [death metal w/ grindcore infleunces]
*Machine Head* - The Blackening [groove metal]

cheers,
--N


----------



## megamania

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Just read on Wikipedia that there is an as yet untitled AC/DC release slated for 2008.
> 
> Waiting to see...





That would be awesome.  Ballbreaker wasn't awesome but still enjoyable.  Lord..... that was like 7 years ago.... maybe 8.  It predated 9/11 because I remember their song "I feel safe in NYC" struck me funny after 9/11 occured.


----------



## megamania

Thankyou for the links.    It amazes me how many I don't recognize.  As I said before, I am more of a hairband fan whom then likes a bit of everything else.  I have been exposed to a handful of artists that I coming to like that are on the lists given here.  They include- 

Rammstein
Linkin Park
Dokken

These I was exposed to more from movie soundtracks.


----------



## Nyaricus

megamania said:
			
		

> Thankyou for the links.    It amazes me how many I don't recognize.



Haha, don't be too bewildered - most of those bands are, by and far, underground acts, or newer bands who have just emerged from the underground.

 As I said before, I am more of a hairband fan whom then likes a bit of everything else. I have been exposed to a handful of artists that I coming to like that are on the lists given here.  They include- [/QUOTE]
Well, I'll try to point you in the direction of some bands based on what you like here...



			
				megamania said:
			
		

> Rammstein
> Linkin Park



These two bands are, generally, considered to be nu metal bands; that is, they either have a very commercial, radio-friendly sound, and/or they mix in rapped lyrics against hard rock or metal. Linkin Park does the latter. If you like Linkin Park, you might also like 38th Parallel, Pillar, Project Wyze and Limp Bizkit (if you can stand them ).

Rammstein also mixes in the electronica sub-genre called indutrial with their music. Their sound has also changed over their 5 full length releases considerably, with the first two having many more samples and such, whereas the newer albums focus more on the keyboard work then anything (and generally, the keys are used tastefully in their music, and aren't overbearing). I'd bet you've either heard 'Du Hast' or 'Feuer Frei!', both off of the album Mutter.

If you enjoy Rammstein's style, I suggest you pick up their albums, in order: Reise, Reise; Sehnsucht; Rosenrot; Mutter; Herzeleid - with the first two being largely interchangeable in the order you pick them up. While either Du Hast or Feuer Frei! are good songs, Rammstein has a lot more to offer in regards to their sound - they really put a lot into their music, and they are one of my all-time fav. bands, definitely.

Now, for artists who branch off from Rammstein's sound, here's a little list:

*Mnemic* (I *highly* suggest 'The Audio Injected Soul'. Closest match to an American verison of Rammstein, methinks.
*Static-X* (another great band, try out Shadow Zone, their best effort yet, IMO)
*Slipknot* (Iowa is a very agressive album, I'm not sure if it'd be up your alley. Try out their self-titled debut if you can).
*Crossbreed* (they only have one album, Synthetic Division. It's worth the price )
*Spineshank* (try out 'The Height of Callousness'. It's a great album.)

cheers,
--N


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Now, for artists who branch off from Rammstein's sound, here's a little list:
> <edit>
> Static-X (another great band, try out Shadow Zone, their best effort yet, IMO)




GRRRR, youngsters!

If you really want to listen to bands that form the root for bands like Static-X (whom I dearly love), check out Ministry and Prong..._ESPECIALLY_ Prong.


----------



## Nyaricus

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> GRRRR, youngsters!
> 
> If you really want to listen to bands that form the root for bands like Static-X (whom I dearly love), check out Ministry and Prong..._ESPECIALLY_ Prong.



I do hope you aren't thinking that I was implying that Rammstein formed the basis for Static-X's sound. Because I was simply implying what bands have a similar sound to Rammstein.

In any case, new Ministry is not that impressive, but that's all I've heard by them. I hear the older stuff is amazing though.

cheers,
--N


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ah...I misunderstood, then.

As for Ministry- their early stuff is solidly an angry form of New Wave- early hits like "Revenge" were clearly done by a band that owed more to bands like Devo than Black Sabbath.

However, as the band aged, more and more anger and aggression steeped in, until they had essentially become one of the first Industrial Metal bands.  "Land of Rape and Honey" sounds more like Killing Joke than Human League.  The follow-up "A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste" is a classic Industrial Metal album, as was "Psalm 69."  Other stuff has been hit or miss, but Al Jourgenson's classic sound lived on in side projects like Revolting Cocks, Pigface, Lard and others.

Killing Joke and Prong were the other major bands advancing the sound of Industrial Metal at the time.  Prong, FWIW, is the band you hear doing the theme song to the original Headbanger's Ball.

Prong's style directly influenced White Zombie's sound- in one of the later seasons, you can see Rob Zombie redesigning the set _on air_, so its pretty clear he heard a lot of that music on his way up (KJ and Prong were in heavy rotation in the last segment of the show).

After White Zombie, Rob went solo, keeping his own "horrorbilly" sensibility in the Industrial Metal mix.

Meanwhile, Prong's sound was almost directly duped by Static-X.  Early SX has a more techno feel than does Prong's work- Wayne Static's samples & loops are more akin to the stuff of New Wave than metal. However, Wayne's samples have gotten progressively harder and darker as the band has developed.


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Ah yes...Prong.

Beg To Differ is still my favorite album, followed by Cleansing.


----------



## TessarrianDM

Any opinions on Hammerfall, Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire, or Iced Earth?


----------



## Nyaricus

Hmmm, seems Nyaricus needs to pick up some Prong *strokes goatee*



			
				TessarrianDM said:
			
		

> Any opinions on Hammerfall, Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire, or Iced Earth?



Of the three, I can say Rhapsody is the one I know. Really fun, cheesy, fast power metal. 'Power of the Dragonflame' and 'Symphony of Enchanted Lands' are, IMO, their best works.

However, anything they have done, Blind Guardian has done better, and with less cheese  JMHO, of course.

cheers,
--N


----------



## Moulin Rogue

TessarrianDM said:
			
		

> Any opinions on Hammerfall, Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire, or Iced Earth?




Get the first two or three Rhapsody discs, they kinda start to go downhill after that. For some reason they stopped using authentic medieval-ish instruments and started using digital samples for them instead. You can tell, unfortunately. And I was really disappointed when they finished the last concept album cycle, they simply started a new rehashed one, really playing it safe.

HammerFall, well their first disc (Glory To The Brave, 1997) is a classic and I don't think they ever topped it from anything I've heard. I'd get that first disc with the knowledge that all further albums are just attempts at more of the same.

Iced Earth is the most consistently good of the three bands you named, and that's while trying different things over the years too. I've heard them described as "what Metallica would sound like if they hadn't changed in the '90s"  You really can't go wrong with any of their '90s discs. "Alive In Athens" belongs in the pantheon of the all-time classic live metal recordings.


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Moulin Rogue said:
			
		

> I've heard them described as "what Metallica would sound like if they hadn't changed in the '90s"




As far as I'm concerned, Metallica recorded _And Justice For All_ then died in a tragic plane wreck.  That's my story and I'm sticking with it.


----------



## BOZ

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> I'll throw out the Wikipedia link for albums release in:
> 
> 2005
> 2006
> 2007
> 
> So that you can check it out at your leisure.




good lord - it would take a whole lot of leisure time to browse through those lists!


----------



## warlord

What's My Chemical Romance doing in this thread? They're emo/pop rock. Sure some of their earlier stuff bordered on some gothic emo fusion thing but they were never metal.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

*Artists with a Hard Rock/Metal past*

One of the weird things about hard rock and metal is how many people give it a try and find success in another musical genre.  Some of the ones I know about are:

Billy Joel: founding member of short lived hard rock band, Attila

Vangelis: His family's band, Aphrodite's Child, was a classic example of prog-rock.  Best example is the concept double album "666"

Michael Bolton: His band, Blackjack, once toured with Ozzy.  He has written a hit song for KISS.


----------



## Thunderfoot

warlord said:
			
		

> What's My Chemical Romance doing in this thread? They're emo/pop rock. Sure some of their earlier stuff bordered on some gothic emo fusion thing but they were never metal.



Because of the influence of punk and proto-punk on emo... Any heavy music can be linked to hard rock and heavy metal and for our purposes here, those links should be recognized.  Green Day is considered punk by the industry, I consider them crap; see, opinions vary.


----------



## D.Shaffer

...Not sure if this deserved its own thread, but considering the subject...

(From Metalocalypse) Dethklok's album _Dethalbum_ is coming out Sept 25. 
Is there a category for 'Parody Metal?'  

And who started the entire 'Barbarian Warrior' theme you see in Metal so often, anyways?


----------



## Ferret

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Because of the influence of punk and proto-punk on emo... Any heavy music can be linked to hard rock and heavy metal and for our purposes here, those links should be recognized.  Green Day is considered punk by the industry, I consider them crap; see, opinions vary.




Greenday used to be cool, I dunno what happened to them.... :\


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ferret said:
			
		

> Greenday used to be cool, I dunno what happened to them.... :\



Me either * sell out - koff * but it's a shame * corporate shill - koff* they used to be edgy *Hollywood hippsters - koff koff* but now, they're just crappy *Left wing activists like Barbara Streisand - koff koff*...


----------



## Ferret

And the same for megadeth, I was disappointed by their new album. :\


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ferret said:
			
		

> And the same for megadeth, I was disappointed by their new album. :\



I haven't heard it yet (please don't take away my metal license) but I had a feeling that something was up when I saw them advertised alongside Hillary Duff and Tim McGraw on a Wal-Mart commercial.


----------



## Nyaricus

D.Shaffer said:
			
		

> And who started the entire 'Barbarian Warrior' theme you see in Metal so often, anyways?



I know Manowar have been doing it since the early 80s, so that might be it.

That said, men in loincloths is the worst fashion statement to come out of metal, and I mean, look at black metal:








cheers,
--N


----------



## Ferret

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> I haven't heard it yet (please don't take away my metal license) but I had a feeling that something was up when I saw them advertised alongside Hillary Duff and Tim McGraw on a Wal-Mart commercial.




I've only just got it end of last month. I wouldn't recommend getting it. :\ 

*is going to look for some TMV and Anthrax next*


----------



## Fenris

I recnelty got turned onto a punk band out of Boston, The Dropkick Murphy's, and I have been enjoying them quite a bit. It's funny, but punk (or some punk) to me is more rock and roll than well, a lot of the newer hard rock and metal bands out there. One of the DKM's songs completely reminded me of Anthrax back in the 80's. The songs are full of meaning and political and societal commentary, along with being just great hard music.


That being said I had a thought he other day in the car. OK metal heads: If you had to pick one song, ONE song, that was the anthem for metal. The one song that among the many guises metal has had over the years, the one song the to you displays the elements of what metal should be or was or will be. The song that you would play if someone asks what metal is. What is that song to you?

For me, I think it has to be One by Metallica. It is just the quintessential metal song for me.

What's yours?


----------



## Moulin Rogue

Fenris said:
			
		

> That being said I had a thought he other day in the car. OK metal heads: If you had to pick one song, ONE song, that was the anthem for metal. The one song that among the many guises metal has had over the years, the one song the to you displays the elements of what metal should be or was or will be. The song that you would play if someone asks what metal is. What is that song to you?




I'm going to go with "Blls To The Wall" by Accept. First off, it is, to borrow a word you mentioned, an ANTHEM. That's a chorus that you just have to raise your first and shout along to. The lyrics are about the oppressed rising up, and that's a very metal thing, the whole attitude of "even if society is against us we will never surrender, we will not conform". 

The song gets quiet in the middle and that's a classic metal thing done for dramatic effect, makes the heavy part seem even heavier, "One" is another excellent example of that of course. The singer alternates between growling and shrieking his head off  It's got the great simple but heavy guitar riff, nice solo too, big heavy drums, that cool gothic chanting part, it's got just about everything that sums up "metal" basically.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> If you had to pick one song, ONE song, that was the anthem for metal. The one song that among the many guises metal has had over the years, the one song the to you displays the elements of what metal should be or was or will be. The song that you would play if someone asks what metal is. What is that song to you?




For me, no such song exists: Metal has too many forms & subgenres, each with at least one truly song that epitomizes the genre like few others can.  The early days of metal (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, or Led Zeppelin) are so radically different from the metal of the 80's (Y.J. Malmsteen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Slayer, Sepultura) 90s (Metallica, Megadeth, Korn, Rage Against the Machine, Godflesh, Helmet, Soulfly) and the new millenium (Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, Opeth) that they don't sound like they're part of the same genre.

Looking back at the ones I listed, you'd note that within a given decade, you'd have bands that don't sound like each other, or overlap with bands that preceeded or followed them.

Is Black Sabbath any less metal than Mayhem?  No, how could they be? They invented the genre.  But Mayhem or any given Danish Black Metal band has a heavier, harsher sound than Black Sabbath ever did or ever will.

The least I could do is play exemplars of the various kinds of metal.


----------



## Testament

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> For me, no such song exists: Metal has too many forms & subgenres, each with at least one truly song that epitomizes the genre like few others can.  The early days of metal (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, or Led Zeppelin) are so radically different from the metal of the 80's (Y.J. Malmsteen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Slayer, Sepultura) 90s (Metallica, Megadeth, Korn, Rage Against the Machine, Godflesh, Helmet, Soulfly) and the new millenium (Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, Opeth) that they don't sound like they're part of the same genre.
> 
> Looking back at the ones I listed, you'd note that within a given decade, you'd have bands that don't sound like each other, or overlap with bands that preceeded or followed them.
> 
> Is Black Sabbath any less metal than Mayhem?  No, how could they be? They invented the genre.  But Mayhem or any given Danish Black Metal band has a heavier, harsher sound than Black Sabbath ever did or ever will.
> 
> The least I could do is play exemplars of the various kinds of metal.




Danish?  DANISH?!  DANISH!?  I hereby revoke your metal licence.  Mayhem and their ilk were part of the vast wave of _Norwegian_ Black Metal that was run pretty much from Helvete, the music store owned by the late Euronymous (Mayhem's original guitarist and still the object of an insane cult of personality).  And it was a scene that did more to give Metal an evil rep than anything before it, complete with church burnings, satanism, suicides and capped it all off with murder.

In response to the earlier question about the anthem, as a fan primarily of Black Metal, no other song sums up everything I love about the genre more than _I Am the Black Wizards_, by Emperor.  A killer riff, Isahn in full demonically howling flight, oozing sinister atmosphere, and yet posessing a majesty and beautiful harmony that shines through the low-budget production.

And yeah, suffice to say I'm not a big fan of necro/kvlt/tr00 BM or whatever the hell you want to call it.  Darkthrone, Burzum, Judas Iscariot and the like all do some good stuff, but I'll take Mayhem or Emperor over it any day.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ach- I'm a little loopy and typed without fact-checking.

Welcome to teh Interweb!

But revoking my metal license? HAH!

First, you'll have to cut me open, and THEN you'd better make sure you brought your non-metric toolset to loosen the bolts that hold the plate in my chest to get to it!



Besides, its not like the Danes...er..._Norwegians_ have a monopoly on the genre- it started with Brits & Swedes, and after the Norwegians washed over the genre like a black avalanche, the Swedes increased their numbers and the Finns jumped on the (devil)bandwagon.

Must be something about those northern icy climes...

Now you've got the Russians and the Eastern Europeans joining the fray.


----------



## Ferret

The more the merrier!

I might be tempted to pick Holy Wars by Megadeth, but their a favourite of mine. Maybe What Doesn't Die by Anthrax. You couldn't pick one song though out of all of them, and I've only heard a small amount of metal!


----------



## Fenris

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Ach- I'm a little loopy and typed without fact-checking.
> 
> Welcome to teh Interweb!
> 
> But revoking my metal license? HAH!
> 
> First, you'll have to cut me open, and THEN you'd better make sure you brought your non-metric toolset to loosen the bolts that hold the plate in my chest to get to it!




A bone saw would do quite nicely   

And no weaseling out Danny. Pick one song. Metal wears many forms. Someone wants to know what metal is. You can play them one and only one song, what is it? I'll be sharpening my saw


----------



## Thunderfoot

Sorry kiddies, I am with Danny on this one.  If you are under the age of 30 and you are asked that question... I can think of all sorts of answers, but to ask for just one... that's like asking for that one song that defines rock n' roll.  Do you pick metal, pop, new wave, techno, disco (eww I feel dirty now), punk, classic, AOR, bubblegum, oldies, southern fired, blues- or country-?

It just cannot be done, regardless of any cheap attempts to do so.  I understand the sentiment; its a nice gesture, but it just doesn't jive.  I love so many TYPES of heavy metal that to pick one from each genre would be a monumental task.  So, no, I cry foul and tell you to put it back in your gym shorts.  And BTW, "Balls To The Wall", though a great song, would HARDLY be my first choice of songs that came out during that time frame, much less for all time. (See what I mean?)

And also, at some point I will post the next two chapters of school, there will be homework and a semester exam, so you had better be studying.  Class dismissed.


----------



## Fenris

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Sorry kiddies, I am with Danny on this one.  If you are under the age of 30 and you are asked that question... I can think of all sorts of answers, but to ask for just one... that's like asking for that one song that defines rock n' roll.  Do you pick metal, pop, new wave, techno, disco (eww I feel dirty now), punk, classic, AOR, bubblegum, oldies, southern fired, blues- or country-?
> 
> It just cannot be done, regardless of any cheap attempts to do so.  I understand the sentiment; its a nice gesture, but it just doesn't jive.  I love so many TYPES of heavy metal that to pick one from each genre would be a monumental task.  So, no, I cry foul and tell you to put it back in your gym shorts.  And BTW, "Balls To The Wall", though a great song, would HARDLY be my first choice of songs that came out during that time frame, much less for all time. (See what I mean?)
> 
> And also, at some point I will post the next two chapters of school, there will be homework and a semester exam, so you had better be studying.  Class dismissed.




No dice. You may have a favorite mexican food, a favorite chinese food, a favorite american food, but you still have one favorite food regardless of the type. So Thunderfoot, I don't buy your arguement. Yes, there are lots of different types, but out of all the types YOU listen to, you will have a single song. If you like, use the desert island metaphor. You are marooned on an island and you only have one song to listen to...........

No weaseling for you either.


----------



## Nyaricus

I have many fav songs, but these rise heads and shoulders above the others for me:

Lamb of God - 'Laid to Rest'
Cradle of Filth - 'Cruelty Brought Thee Orchids'
Rammstein - 'Ohne Dich' ('Without You')
Slipknot - 'Purity'

Think of it as you may, but these songs can send shivers up my spine, given the right mood.

cheers,
--N


----------



## Thunderfoot

Fenris said:
			
		

> No dice. You may have a favorite mexican food, a favorite chinese food, a favorite american food, but you still have one favorite food regardless of the type. So Thunderfoot, I don't buy your arguement. Yes, there are lots of different types, but out of all the types YOU listen to, you will have a single song. If you like, use the desert island metaphor. You are marooned on an island and you only have one song to listen to...........
> 
> No weaseling for you either.



Sorry, I don't have a favorite song, neither can I stand to listen to a song for more than a few times before I get sick of it...  BTW, you do realize I'm a producer so this is kind of like asking me to cut off my ears, right?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> And BTW, "Balls To The Wall", though a great song, would HARDLY be my first choice of songs that came out during that time frame, much less for all time. (See what I mean?)




I agree.



> No dice. You may have a favorite mexican food, a favorite chinese food, a favorite american food, but you still have one favorite food regardless of the type.




Not me...I love a great variety of cuisines, and can't think of a single favorite dish in any of them...not even my native creole.

Even within "Mexican" cuisine, you have coastal variants emphasizing seafood, Tex-Mex emphasizing beef & chicken, Cali-Mex which includes asian influences, and dozens of other subtypes.



> And no weaseling out Danny. Pick one song. Metal wears many forms. Someone wants to know what metal is. You can play them one and only one song, what is it?




Its not weaseling- trust me, IAAL, so I know about weaseling!  

If I had to "pick a single quintessential metal song" or be shot, I'd say my prayers and make my peace.

Heck- if you look at the heaviest metal of today and compare it to Black Sabbath, you'd be hard pressed to call BS metal.  And yet they most assuredly are.


----------



## Nyaricus

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Heck- if you look at the heaviest metal of today and compare it to Black Sabbath, you'd be hard pressed to call BS metal.  And yet they most assuredly are.



I've always found this fact amusing, personally


----------



## Shin Ji

Just wanted to make a quick comment on one of your excellent articles, Thunderfoot.  Are you really claiming that  ...And Justice for All was the beginning of Alternacca?  That was an excellent album by any reasonable metric.  Was it as good as the first three, possibly not- but it did have "One" and that makes up for anything else.

Perhaps you meant the downslide began after Justice, with the Black Album?  Now, then I think any metal fan would agree with you.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Shin Ji said:
			
		

> Just wanted to make a quick comment on one of your excellent articles, Thunderfoot.  Are you really claiming that  ...And Justice for All was the beginning of Alternacca?  That was an excellent album by any reasonable metric.  Was it as good as the first three, possibly not- but it did have "One" and that makes up for anything else.
> 
> Perhaps you meant the downslide began after Justice, with the Black Album?  Now, then I think any metal fan would agree with you.



Good points, so I will address them each in a historical turn...
Yes, I am claiming it was the beginning of Alternnica.  The reasons are many:  
1) Cliff Burton is dead.  Though an often overlooked member in relation to the overall talent of the rest of the band, Cliff was, more or less, the musical morale compass of the group.  He was an old school hippie that tried to keep the group grounded to its roots.
2) Jason Newstead becomes the new bassist.  Jason, while a fantastic instrumentalist and prolific writer, was unfortunately a terrific bassist and prolific writer.  While undeniably younger than the rest of the group his  musical tour de force on the bass was inescapable, he also had a much younger musical influence base to draw from,  He is the single pebble in the pond that caused the ripples of Alternative music over the next four or five albums.
3) Though _One_ was indeed a heavy song and typical of the Metallica of old, the rest of the album (for the most part) showed that the direction of the group was taking a turn for the more popular Alternative Rock of Seattle rather than the underground metal movement of San Fransisco.  
4) I stand by my statement.  To be fair, often the beginning of something rarely looks like the end.  I realize my analysis is often unpopular, especially with newer fans, but the _"And Justice For All..."_ and _Black _Albums are considered some of the best metal music of all time, but to me, it just isn't Metallica.  And I believe _Load _was appropriately named and _St. Anger_ should have been titled _Inappropriately Produced Annoying Drum Tracks Over Really Crappy Music_, just so that truth in advertising could be adhered to. 

However, Metallica fans have been promised a revival of the old with the upcoming album, so who knows?  Maybe the Jason Newstead thing will be proved completely true. (Remember that Robert had nothing to do the creation of their last album, he just came in a played over what was already written.)


----------



## GlassJaw

Ferret said:
			
		

> Greenday used to be cool, I dunno what happened to them.... :\




Besides becoming better songwriters?  Their newest album is amazing.


----------



## Thunderfoot

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Besides becoming better songwriters?  Their newest album is amazing.



Amazingly poor?
Please remember when discussing that all of this is opinion.


----------



## GlassJaw

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Amazingly poor?
> Please remember when discussing that all of this is opinion.




Sure, it's an opinion, but calling Green Day "amazingly poor" songwriters is an incorrect opinion.  You might not like their songs or style of music but that doesn't make them poor songwriters.


----------



## Thunderfoot

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Sure, it's an opinion, but calling Green Day "amazingly poor" songwriters is an incorrect opinion.  You might not like their songs or style of music but that doesn't make them poor songwriters.



Again, your opinion, I think their songwriting is formulaic and shoddy.  So to make a blanket statement about any group is suspect at best.  Green Day had a lot to do with the original Neo-Punk and Emo Punk wave of music, they are definitely an influential group and they are amazingly popular.  My professional opinion is that their basic musical skills are lacking, but then I am not their producer, I am not their agent and I am not a fan, therefore I am not their target audience.  If you like them, great, your opinion is noted and I will politely disagree, but no opinion is wrong...that is unless you like Brittney Spears and then I'll just make fun of you.


----------



## werk

I'll side with ...and justice being a fairly heavy album at the time (released in 1990).  During the black album tour they would only perform a ...and justice medley uke:  because the songs were so heavy performing them would wear out the band.  James is on record numerous times talking about how the ...and justice tour almost put them all in the hospital because those songs are hard and long.

Blackened, dire maker, shortest straw...these are more like the old thrash of metallica with their heavier sound.  

Definitely a transition album though, which is really what you are trying to voice, I think.


----------



## Thunderfoot

werk said:
			
		

> <SNIP>
> Definitely a transition album though, which is really what you are trying to voice, I think.



I guess that will have to do.  I guess I'm not clearly illustrating my point so instead of escalating, we'll use this as the benchmark.


----------



## Ferret

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Sure, it's an opinion, but calling Green Day "amazingly poor" songwriters is an incorrect opinion.  You might not like their songs or style of music but that doesn't make them poor songwriters.




I didn't know you could have an 'incorrect opinion'...what with them being personal. However you're entitled to the opinion of me being wrong, about you being wrong =p


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I'm 100% with Thunderfoot on Green Day.  I'd rather listen to original Punk (Sex Pistols, Ramones, The Clash, etc.) than anything they ever put out.  I was turned off as soon as I heard Billy Joe Armstrong's faux-Brit singing voice.

Of the neo-punks, about the only group I listen to is Rancid (BTW, I understand that Tim Armstrong has a solo album out) and I must confess a weakness for early Offspring.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Yeah when it comes to punk, there's The Sex Pistols, The Clash, Black Flag, The Butthole Surfers, The Dead Kennedys, The Dead Milkmen and then that other stuff.


----------



## AnonymousOne

Ooohhh a topic I can appreciate.

Right so.  Like DnD, I got into metal in College.

I hate to break it to the ol' folks here but I really don't like "old school" metal.  I've tried, I swear, but I just can't get into it.  However, I'm perfectly willing to reap the benefits from their influences.  I'm into a lot of the stranger genres of metal.  I'm a big fan of some of the progressive movement.  Bands like Opeth (saw them in concert and it was ridiculous!), Zozobra, Mastodon, Between the Buried and Me, Machinae Supremacy (refered to as "gamer Metal" for their use of a 64bit processor in making many of the sounds in their songs), and Dream Theater are up near the top of that list.  Couple that with some of the more mainstream Death Metal bands like Dark Tranquility, and In Flames (though I feel as if a lot of their work sounds very recycled).  

I love off the wall quirky stuff as well.  If there is one band that you check out please:  Diablo Swing Orchestra 
Think Swing + Metal + Jazz + an Opera singer as their lead vocalist. really weird, but I found that it really grows on people.  The more you listen to the album the more you realize how varied their talents are.

Another band is called System Shock, it's Melodic Death Metal, but it's NOT Gothenburg.  Quite interesting stuff really.

Now for the sake of my collection I do have Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Stevie Ray Vaugh, and many others.

Oh and FYI for those of you interested.  Machinae Supremecy actually releases  many of their songs on their website for free download. http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/ 
Go to releases>webography and you can DL their un-albumed songs.  good stuff, a bit different.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Its not about liking the older stuff- after all, taste_ is_ subjective- its about knowing the genre's history.

So, feel free to consider older metal bands to be too wussy for your personal taste, just as long as you know who they are and why they matter.


----------



## Nyaricus

AnonymousOne said:
			
		

> I hate to break it to the ol' folks here but I really don't like "old school" metal.  I've tried, I swear, but I just can't get into it.  However, I'm perfectly willing to reap the benefits from their influences.



Just curious, but what would you consider "old school" when Dream Theatre have been around since 1985? Do you mean like the first wave of metal bands, like Black Sabbath, etc, or something in between those two??

cheers,
--N


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

My personal opinion- learning about the old stuff helps you understand the new stuff.

I was just reading an interview with 2 of the founding members of Immortal (Norwegian black metal band, recently reunited), and one of the members cited _Elvis_ as one of the most important influences on rock.

If someone doing black metal can demonstate knowledge and respect for music 50 years old in genres far removed from his own, you have to wonder how it affects his artistry.

Once you start thinking like _that..._


----------



## AnonymousOne

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Its not about liking the older stuff- after all, taste is subjective- its about knowing the genre's history.
> 
> So, feel free to consider older metal bands to be too wussy for your personal taste, just as long as you know who they are and why they matter.




Of course taste is subjective.  It's not that it's too wussy.  Hell I listen to a lot of softer stuff like Darkwave and the Dark Neoclassical work and those are certainly NOT metal.  I'm just not a fan of that time period as a whole.  I've found little that I like from it.  *shrugs*  To each their own. 




			
				Nyaricus said:
			
		

> Just curious, but what would you consider "old school" when Dream Theater have been around since 1985? Do you mean like the first wave of metal bands, like Black Sabbath, etc, or something in between those two??
> 
> cheers,
> --N



Dream Theater is the one exception, but even then I'm not a big fan of their work before 'Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence'.  When I say Old School I mean groups like Black Sabbath, Megadeath, Slayer, Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray, and a lot of the Thrash influences from the 80s.  Sure I don't like their music, but I can't deny that they've influenced a genre that I've come to enjoy.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Welcome Anonymous One!
(Sorry, school has kept me away from teaching (boy that sounds really dumb doesn't it...))
No offense is taken.  You'll find that Danny and I agree about a lot of things, so I won't mimic his well stated points.
And, I must admit, you aren't the first person I've heard say this.  There is a certain disconnect between 1989 and 2000 called grunge that pretty much killed the music industry for a while.  Death/Black metal kept rolling along in the underground (ref Sweden/Finland/Norway and Denmark) while the rest of the world was lifting Nirvana to a (IMO undeserved) place in musical history.  Pop metal/AOR and even good ole' fashioned rock n' roll pretty much disappeared.  I mean when Oasis is on the cutting edge, you know something is screwy.  Because of this, a lot of traditional metal acts sound dated...because frankly, they are.  I imagine that as metal begins to become more prevalently played that that will change.

Hopefully I will be posting again soon, but just wanted to take this chance to say HEY and let everyone else know I haven't died or anything.


----------



## Flobby

whew! That was a long thread. I was waiting for someone to mention Manowar! what could be more metal than them! Gods of Metal...genius. 

I feel like I have to defend Greenday here though. (Partly cause we're from the same hood  ) I understand the critisism but they are punk. Personally I don't listen to them anymore, and haven't heard their new album. I think people should realize they were innovaters of the whole new melodic punk thing. Okay maybe that wasn't a good think-- and they spawned a lot of crap (Blink 43854 or whatever). They did something totally different, they were punks definitly but they brought in simply rock'n'roll-- simply lyrics, cheesy love-songs, most of their songs sounded the same. (Like the Ramones?) They just well... rocked! An dthey were fun! And I know signing to a major was a big desicion for them. They knew that all the punks that liked them would never forgive them, and they'll never be able to play a the little whole-in-the-wall punk clubs like they used to. So anyway I respect them, the wrote some great rock songs-- and they're still punk in my book .

I too prefer old-school punk (Ramones or course but what about Suicidal! MDC! Minor Threat!   no one has mentioned these guys! ) i wonder how punk the Sex Pistols are though (although I like them). I give them respect, but as far as punk ethic and culture   goes Green Day was more Punk. They were a produced band, made in the studio after all-- that's not very punk... 
And remeber the orginal punk was extremely varied-- Talking Heads was (is) punk!

And one last thing... Slayer!!!! where's the love fr Slayer! They are the metal of metal in my book. They brought the silly horror/fantasy of metal and the harshness of punk together. (Well okay Misfits helped there too  ) Without them we wouldn't have the genres of  Death Metal, Power Violence, Black Metal (Leviathan!!!) or gothic/industrial metal bands like Neurosis, or the weird ones like Mr.Bungle. I think Slayer is the only metal band whose albums have never disappointed (unlike Metalica...)


----------



## Testament

Flobby said:
			
		

> I think Slayer is the only metal band whose albums have never disappointed (unlike Metalica...)




Divine Intervention and Undipsuted Attitude, at least in my books, beg to differ.


----------



## AnonymousOne

Flobby said:
			
		

> I think Slayer is the only metal band whose albums have never disappointed (unlike Metalica...)



really?!?  I mean ... REALLY?!?

See I have listened to several slayer albums and not one of them did I like as an album.
I like a song or so on each but I never liked the albums as a whole.  

Oh well, to each their own.


----------



## warlord

Slayer never disappointing, that's funny. Did you miss that album with the cover of Minor Threat's "Guilty of being right"? Oh wait the song is actually called "Guilty of being white" the changed the entire point of that one of Minor Threat's best songs that album sucked. Slayer is only good for killing infestations of hippies.


----------



## AnonymousOne

warlord said:
			
		

> Slayer is only good for killing infestations of hippies.



I applaud you for the South Park reference.


----------



## Testament

Hey, I'm at it again with the Threadcromancy!

The year's almost through, and looking through my CDs is struck me that its been a good year, for me at least, in terms of metal.  Some absolutely fantastic releases this year, with several bands proving that they sure as hell can still cut it.  So without further ado, he's my personal top 5 releases for the year 2007

5. *Helloween - Gambling With the Devil*
I believe the technical term is "Earworm".  This really is one of the purest expressions of power metal I've heard since the venerable German act unleashed "Keeper of the Seven Keys".  Gloriously over the top, catchy, with solos that border on the ridiculous.  Take it in the spirit its intended and you won't be dissapointed.

4. *Serpentcult - Trident Nor Fire*
"Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger".  This killer EP proves this several times over with every crushing, sludge-like slab of pure doom with siren like vocals.  Rising from the horrific demise of Thee Plague of Gentlemen, Serpentcult are a fantastic find.  Do yourself a favour and get this EP.  I eagerly await a full-length from this Belgian act.

3. *Primordial - To The Nameless Dead*
I fell in love with these guys early in the year when I heard the rousing "Sons of the Morrigan" on Blackmetalradio.com, promptly grabbing the album it was from, "Storm Before Calm".  This Irish act is impossible to classify, bordering Hard Rock, Black Metal and Pagan Metal.  With only Guitar, Bass, Drum, and AA Nemtheanga's incredibly powerful voice, these guys play emotionally powerful music.  This album doesn't quite measure up to the incredible heights of their last effort, "The Gathering Wilderness" (dear god, The Coffin Ships...), but is still an absolute marvel.  "Heathen Tribes" alone is reason to pick this up.  Nemtheanga's in full flight from start to finish here, and the simple production job really brings the whole thing to life.

2. *Mayhem - Ordo Ad Chao*
This is what pure, unadulterated hate for the entire universe sounds like.  Atilla obviously picked up a thing or two during his stints with Sunn O))), because this is a murky, drone-influenced nightmare.  The production is weird, the mid-range has been sliced out, making the whole thing sound muffled and fuzzy, especially the drums.  If you like Csihar's deranged work on De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, you're in for a treat here, since all the inhuman groans, shrieks and snarls are here in abundance.  If you like Maniac's stint on the other hand, you may want to steer clear.  Moreso than ever, there's no middle ground with Mayhem here.

1. *Sigh - Hangman's Hymn*
OK, I'll be honest.  I didn't expect anything to top this once I listened to it, and I was right.  This is just...incredible.  It sounds like Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Quorthon and Euronymous all got locked into a room together with everything they'd need to make music, and were told not to come out until they were done.  Take note Dimmu Borgir and CoF, THIS is how you take extreme metal and an orchestra and combine them.  Mirai's deranged demonic snarling and screaming is in fine form here, and the demonic cackling that punctuates the whole thing is a great touch.  The guitar work is also fantastic, In Devil's Arms is a great nod to Maiden's work too.  Only the drumming lets down the package here, its pretty dull and sits too high in the mix.  That aside, sheer creativity and some fantastic songs (Memories As a Sinner, Hangman's Hymn, Dies Irae) take this to the top of 2007 for me.

Honourable mentions for 2007 go to _Arch Enemy_-Rise of the Tyrant, _Behemoth_-The Apostasy, _Candlemass _ - King of the Grey Islands (Messiah who?), and finally _Nightwish _ - Dark Passion Play (Tarja who?)


----------



## AnonymousOne

Right ... I'm gonna break with Testament ... a lot.

Top 5 albums of 2007:

5.)  Circus of Dead Squirrels - The Pop Culture Massacre And The End Of The World

4.)  Dream Theater - Systematic Chaos

3.)  Devin Townsend - Ziltoid the Omniscient

2.)  Between the Buried and Me - Colors

1.)  Blotted Science - The Machinations of Dementia (Instrumental Group:  Guitarist from Spastic Ink, Drummer from Behold ... the Arctopus, Bassist from Cannibal Corpse.)

Honorable Mentions:
Becoming the Archetype - The Physics of Fire
Katatonia - Live Consternation
Sieges Even - Paramount
Three - The End Is Begun
Ulver - Shadows of the Sun


----------



## Testament

AnonymousOne said:
			
		

> 3.)  Devin Townsend - Ziltoid the Omniscient
> 
> 2.)  Between the Buried and Me - Colors
> 
> Ulver - Shadows of the Sun




Please note that I have these three on order at my beloved JB Hi-Fi.  Getting a hold of Ulver's material in particularly seems to be a right- royal nightmare.  REALLY looking forward to hearing what Rygg and his crew have come up with


----------



## Nyaricus

Man oh man... naming a Top 5 for this year is kinda tough... I personally felt that overall, this year was quite mediocre from the taste of metal I found. There were some pretty good albums, but nothing outstanding, IMO.

The ones which *did* stand out for me were (alpha order):

Dark Tranquility - Fiction
I think this is a great CD from one of the classic MDM bands, and still shows that despite In Flames becoming more like an alt rock band with each new release, some Gothenburg bands still have cojones  I REALLY dig the track 'Misery's Crown' on this album; I hear it's the first time in years the vocalist has used clean vocals on an album, and I LOVE it.

Finntroll - Ur Jordens Djup
The very magical-sounding intro leads into an album of Epic proportions. Finntroll have never sounded like any other band I've come across, and this is no change. The vocalist is simply amazing, howling and screaming all over the place, with a *great* range. The instruments lend a heavy atmosphere to the entire shebang, and you really get the feeling of the Saga being told, which the liner notes describe a bit better then I can here.

Machine Head - The Blackening
This album, while displaying quite a bit of that NWoAHM metalcore influence, struck me as being something very mature and never, ever boring. The album dangerously starts off with a behemoth of a 10 minute track, and never let's go. I saw these guys in concert supporting Lamb of God, and having never heard anything by them before, I was immediately impressed and bought this album. It's mature, it's heavy, and it's even a bit experimental, and really gives the listener a feeling of how hard the band is trying to grow.

Type O Negative - Dead Again
I personally never saw myself as a fan of this band, simply because the whole style is not really what I'm into. I've heard they've spanned the genres, from gothic metal, to doom, to alternative rock and so forth. This offering of heavy metal music is something which i find impossible to categorize, which personally vexes me and therefore makes me respect the band that much more for making such a genre-spanning record. Doomy Goth Rock is the closest to that this falls under, and even then it doesn't quite _get_ it. In any case, from slow, sombre doom metal riffs to the more upbeat, ironically named title track 'Dead Again. All-in-all, an ever-evolving and never-boring tour de force of an album, and tons of fn while you're at it.

cheers,
--N


----------



## Testament

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> Dark Tranquility - Fiction
> I think this is a great CD from one of the classic MDM bands, and still shows that despite In Flames becoming more like an alt rock band with each new release, some Gothenburg bands still have cojones  I REALLY dig the track 'Misery's Crown' on this album; I hear it's the first time in years the vocalist has used clean vocals on an album, and I LOVE it.
> 
> Machine Head - The Blackening
> This album, while displaying quite a bit of that NWoAHM metalcore influence, struck me as being something very mature and never, ever boring. The album dangerously starts off with a behemoth of a 10 minute track, and never let's go. I saw these guys in concert supporting Lamb of God, and having never heard anything by them before, I was immediately impressed and bought this album. It's mature, it's heavy, and it's even a bit experimental, and really gives the listener a feeling of how hard the band is trying to grow.
> --N




The Blackening was released last year IIRC, so I didn't count it.  Really built on the return to form that Through the Ashes of Empires was though, although I think TtAoE was better.  I saw these guys live too, as I've said, and Rob Flynn is just THE MAN live.  Sad fact is though that everything they will ever do will be held against Burn My Eyes.

Dark Tranquility's latest, otoh, I disagree with.  Violently.  For me that album just confirmed that the Gothenburg scene's been going downhill ever since At The Gates disbanded, and this album marks DT hitting rock bottom.  Honestly, if the keyboards were any more overused, I'd think they merged with Dimmu Borgir....

But yeah.  In Flames suck almost as hard as Soilwork do these days


----------



## Nyaricus

Testament said:
			
		

> The Blackening was released last year IIRC, so I didn't count it.  Really built on the return to form that Through the Ashes of Empires was though, although I think TtAoE was better.  I saw these guys live too, as I've said, and Rob Flynn is just THE MAN live.  Sad fact is though that everything they will ever do will be held against Burn My Eyes.
> 
> Dark Tranquility's latest, otoh, I disagree with.  Violently.  For me that album just confirmed that the Gothenburg scene's been going downhill ever since At The Gates disbanded, and this album marks DT hitting rock bottom.  Honestly, if the keyboards were any more overused, I'd think they merged with Dimmu Borgir....
> 
> But yeah.  In Flames suck almost as hard as Soilwork do these days



Nope, MH's _The Blackening_ was released on March 27th of this year, so it definitely did count  And yes, Mr. Flynn was an awesome showman, really what any frontman worth his salt should be like. I'll have to check out _Through the Ashes of Empires_ since you're rec'ing it 

As for DT, I disagree (but you know that already ). I dunno, I just never really 'got' At the Gates and why everyone fellates over them (not saying you are, but man oh man on some metal forums... yeesh!). Anywho,  I actually like the keyboards, I personally think they add a smooth synth feel to the music which I enjoy, and they're tastefully done, IMO. I understand why some, tired with Dimmu Burger and Dani and the Filths would be bored of this already, but I really like them 

cheers,
--N


----------



## Testament

OK, wasn't sure about The Blackening's release date because the hype juggernaut started late last year.  _Through the Ashes of Empires_ is fantastic, worth picking up just for "Imperium", easily their best song since "Old".  Machine Head really are a great band when they want to be, just save yourself the pain and avoid _The Burning Red_ and _Supercharger _ like the pestilence they are.

At The Gates were a good band IMO, but like you, I really don't understand the psychotic devotion they seem to inspire, its almost as alarming as Mayhem fanhood can be.  With DT, as I said, I didn't feel that they keyboards added anything noteworthy to the music, but ever since being burned badly by the last few Dimmu Borgir releases (_In Sorte Diaboli _ would be near the top of my list of biggest let-downs for the year) and CoF's _Thornography_, I've been fairly jaded on keyboards in my metal.  Hey, you like it though, I'm not gonna hold that against you, music's a pretty subjective thing.

And BTW Nycarius, props on the Avatar.  Nile are still one of the best in the biz for my money.  Looking forward to the new year though, Amon Amarth play Melbourne on my birthday, and Im-freaking-mortal play in March.  They might look like a bunch of badgers, but there's nobody like them.


----------



## Nyaricus

Testament said:
			
		

> With DT, as I said, I didn't feel that they keyboards added anything noteworthy to the music, but ever since being burned badly by the last few Dimmu Borgir releases (_In Sorte Diaboli _ would be near the top of my list of biggest let-downs for the year) and CoF's _Thornography_, I've been fairly jaded on keyboards in my metal.  Hey, you like it though, I'm not gonna hold that against you, music's a pretty subjective thing.



Just a question, but why didn't you dig Thornography? I realise this was a huge divergeance in sound for the band all-in-all, but personally I *loved* the music. Not even sure how to categorize it though... something like Symphonic Melodic Blackened Gothic Metal, or some such.... In any case, I thought it was such a unique album, and so very fresh when compared to Nymphetamine. What didn't you like?



			
				Testament said:
			
		

> And BTW Nycarius, props on the Avatar.  Nile are still one of the best in the biz for my money.  Looking forward to the new year though, Amon Amarth play Melbourne on my birthday, and Im-freaking-mortal play in March.  They might look like a bunch of badgers, but there's nobody like them.



Thanks for the compliment on the avatar 

Ohhhhh man though, Amon Amarth was the best freaking band I've ever sen live, and I've already had a pretty diverse exposure to bands. Seriously, if you have floor tix, go in there dressed as a Viking - their vocalist will love it (some guy did this when I saw them, and it made me wonder how *I* didn't think of that - in any case, Joshua Hegg I think is the vocalists name, and he was totally throwing that guy the horns all night!). Also, you are damn lucky to see Immortal. All I got was Dimmu Borgir earlier this year  (I did catch one of Hellhammer's drum sticks though!).

cheers,
--N


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I'm not posting a top 5, in part because I really_ hate_ many of the new vocalists.

Where I'm coming from: Before picking up the Cello, Guitar and Bass, I was a vocalist.  I have a 4 1/2 Octave range in my voice, and have always appreciated fine vocalists.  They don't have to be pyrotechnic howlers like Rob Halford or Ian Gillen- Bon Scott and Axl Rose will do just fine.

While I think there are many excellent guitarists & other instrumentalists in modern metal, IMHO, most of the "grunters" fronting bands today to be unworthy of the privelege.  Unlike earlier days, I find myself largely unable to distinguish between bands based upon inarticulate growls.

I know I'm not the only one- ask Dave Mustane.

But I do still find bands to buy- Atreyu, Evan's Blue, and Kylesa joined my lineup, as did Mastodon and Shadows Fall.

OTOH, my In Flames and Absence CDs gather much dust.


----------



## Angel Tarragon

I have been listening to a lot of Metallica lately.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> I'm not posting a top 5, in part because I really_ hate_ many of the new vocalists.
> 
> Where I'm coming from: Before picking up the Cello, Guitar and Bass, I was a vocalist.  I have a 4 1/2 Octave range in my voice, and have always appreciated fine vocalists.  They don't have to be pyrotechnic howlers like Rob Halford or Ian Gillen- Bon Scott and Axl Rose will do just fine.
> 
> While I think there are many excellent guitarists & other instrumentalists in modern metal, IMHO, most of the "grunters" fronting bands today to be unworthy of the privelege.  Unlike earlier days, I find myself largely unable to distinguish between bands based upon inarticulate growls.
> 
> I know I'm not the only one- ask Dave Mustane.
> 
> But I do still find bands to buy- Atreyu, Evan's Blue, and Kylesa joined my lineup, as did Mastodon and Shadows Fall.
> 
> OTOH, my In Flames and Absence CDs gather much dust.



Were we seperated at birth?
You have got to make it to GenCon this year!  You need to meet my family and I have to buy you a meal or at least a drink!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ha!  Thanks for the offer!

Y'know, in my 30 years in the hobby, I've only ever been to one convention*, and never even entertained the idea of going to GenCon.  I don't even know when it is!

*It was a disaster: I was invited to run a game...and not only did nobody show up for mine, nobody showed up for_ any _of them!

(Oh yeah- I also added Gojira to my list this year. Heck, I even started a thread about it...which I would link to if I could get to my subscription page. :\ )


----------



## Nyaricus

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> (Oh yeah- I also added Gojira to my list this year. Heck, I even started a thread about it...which I would link to if I could get to my subscription page. :\ )



Excellent, excellent band.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

They reminded me a bit of Godflesh...

Which reminds me, I'm listening to Broadrick's new project, Jesu, as well.


----------



## Nyaricus

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I have been listening to a lot of Metallica lately.



You know, I neither get what all the fuss is about nor what all the hate is about with them. They seem like a simply average band, IMO.

cheers,
--N


----------



## Nyaricus

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> They reminded me a bit of Godflesh...
> 
> Which reminds me, I'm listening to Broadrick's new project, Jesu, as well.



Godflesh? Never heard of them... looking at their Wikipedia page, I see they're an industrial metal band, but Gojira is a progressive death/post-thrash band - so what's the similarity you hear, given that the styles they play are so very different? Win me over, and I'll give you a cookie!  

cheers,
--N


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

This is where the dizzying array of genre names gets you in trouble.

Godflesh is "blahblahblah" but Gojira is "blahBLAHblah" is just words- it was all in the hearing.

Gojira's lead singer reminded me of the vox from Godflesh.  Sonic landscape is similar. Energy is similar. Lyrical content is similar.

Godflesh was pretty unique when they first hit the airwaves, and I suspect that if they debuted today, they'd have a completely different genre tag.


----------



## Nyaricus

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> This is where the dizzying array of genre names gets you in trouble.
> 
> Godflesh is "blahblahblah" but Gojira is "blahBLAHblah" is just words- it was all in the hearing.
> 
> Gojira's lead singer reminded me of the vox from Godflesh.  Sonic landscape is similar. Energy is similar. Lyrical content is similar.
> 
> Godflesh was pretty unique when they first hit the airwaves, and I suspect that if they debuted today, they'd have a completely different genre tag.



Heh, well ya see... I LOVE to categorize music. I know it drives a lot of people nuts, but it's one of my little passions; micro-categorizing metal bands 

In any case, I think you deserve that cookie, as the vocalist from Gojira is phenomenal - he has such a soaring vocal performance, especially (IMO) on 'From Mars to Sirius'. That track 'From the Sky' is a fav on that album if only for those banshee wails of vocals! MAN! 

cheers,
--N


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Sometime soon, I'm going to be adding Black Tide, Bullet For My Valentine, and Symphony X to my collection.


----------



## Chaldfont

No-one can destroy the metal
The metal will strike you down with a vicious blow
We are the vanquished foes of the metal
We tried to win for why we do not know


----------



## Nyaricus

Chaldfont said:
			
		

> No-one can destroy the metal
> The metal will strike you down with a vicious blow
> We are the vanquished foes of the metal
> We tried to win for why we do not know



Why do I think Manowar wrote that? 

Ninja Edit: Wait, isn't that Jack Black? Either way, you can tell where his lyrical inspiration came from.


----------



## Testament

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> Why do I think Manowar wrote that?
> 
> Ninja Edit: Wait, isn't that Jack Black? Either way, you can tell where his lyrical inspiration came from.




Can't be Manowar.  Nowhere near enough cheese or supressed homoeroticism in it.


----------



## Nyaricus

Testament said:
			
		

> Can't be Manowar.  Nowhere near enough cheese or supressed homoeroticism in it.



You're damn lucky I wasn't drinking any liquids right then 

cheers,
--N


----------



## Fallen Seraph

Well these bands aren't that old, and I am not that old (18) but I personally believe they are wonderful metal bands that should be part of anyone's list:

-Therion: It is a Swedish symphonic metal band that uses alot of mythology in its songs. 
-Symphony X: It is a American progressive metal band that uses good bit of mythology and fantasy in their works. 
-Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire: For simply being fun, this is a great power metal band, with amazingly funny/cheesy music videos. They even had Christopher Lee narrate one of their albums.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Wait, isn't that Jack Black?




Definitely Tenacious D.

(And funny, Testament, definitely funny!)


----------



## Starman

Fallen Seraph said:
			
		

> Well these bands aren't that old, and I am not that old (18) but I personally believe they are wonderful metal bands that should be part of anyone's list:
> 
> -Therion: It is a Swedish symphonic metal band that uses alot of mythology in its songs.
> -Symphony X: It is a American progressive metal band that uses good bit of mythology and fantasy in their works.
> -Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire: For simply being fun, this is a great power metal band, with amazingly funny/cheesy music videos. They even had Christopher Lee narrate one of their albums.




I'm a big fan of symphonic and power metal, too, even when it gets cheesy. In addition to these, I would recommend:

After Forever
Avantasia
Blind Guardian
Cellador
Children of Bodom
Dragonforce
Edenbridge
Edguy
Epica
Hammerfall
Heavenly
Iced Earth
Kamelot
Nightwish
Sonata Arctica
Stratovarius
Visions of Atlantis


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Starman said:
			
		

> After Forever
> Avantasia
> Blind Guardian
> Cellador
> Children of Bodom
> Dragonforce
> Edenbridge
> Edguy
> Epica
> Hammerfall
> Heavenly
> Iced Earth
> Kamelot
> Nightwish
> Sonata Arctica
> Stratovarius
> Visions of Atlantis




I approve this list, and would like to add:

Elis
Haggard
Within Tempation


----------



## Starman

MrFilthyIke said:
			
		

> I approve this list, and would like to add:
> 
> Elis
> Haggard
> Within Tempation




Whoops, I forgot Within Temptation. They are awesome. I haven't heard of Elis and Haggard. I'll have to check them out. Any album recommendations?


----------



## Nyaricus

Well, you gotta love the German trio which started it all, really:

Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray and Helloween

Personally, like many others I think Blind Guardian has gone the furthest with the genre, becoming very progressive and extending the genre of power metal even further. They are the 'Death' of PM 

Also, I recently found 3 Inches of Blood, and I'm in love. 'Advance and Vanquish' is an amazing old-school/new-school mash-up of speed/power metal and with a slight metalcore edge to the music. It's fist-pumping, energetic and tons of fun, and I can't rec them more 

Other great bands would be Rhapsody ("of Fire") and Symphony X, the latter of which has the amazingly epic track 'The Odyssey' which is a 25 minute - re-telling of the greek epic of the same name.

Aaaaand that's all for tonight folks. Later 

cheers,
--N


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

A lot of good suggestions of late!

I'm considering adding some Symphony X to my collection, as well as Within Temptation, Iced Earth, and even...Dragonforce.  Shredded Cheese Indeed!

I listened to Helloween back when they first came out...but I'm not too big a fan of the latest stuff.

I _did_ just add High on Fire and Bullet for my Valentine to the rotation, though.

AND I recently scored a Prong concert DVD- Yay, me!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

So I was watching Metal Mania on VH-1 Classic last night, and they played an old Warlock video.

Doro Pesch is still a better vocalist (and was better looking- she still looks pretty good even at 43!) than Angela Gossow.

IMHO, of course.


----------



## Nyaricus

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> So I was watching Metal Mania on VH-1 Classic last night, and they played an old Warlock video.
> 
> Doro Pesch is still a better vocalist (and was better looking- she still looks pretty good even at 43!) than Angela Gossow.
> 
> IMHO, of course.



Huh, I've never heard of Warlock before - definitely a wicked name though! And according to the Metal Archives, it's not even taken right now *ponders*

cheers,
--N


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Starman said:
			
		

> Whoops, I forgot Within Temptation. They are awesome. I haven't heard of Elis and Haggard. I'll have to check them out. Any album recommendations?




For Elis I'd recommend Griefshire.

http://www.elis.li/frame_en.htm

For Haggard I'd recommend Awakening the Centuries.

http://www.haggard.de/


----------



## VorpalWarrior69

Starman said:
			
		

> Whoops, I forgot Within Temptation. They are awesome. I haven't heard of Elis and Haggard. I'll have to check them out. Any album recommendations?




Also should add Nevermore and Dark Tranquility.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Huh, I've never heard of Warlock before - definitely a wicked name though! And according to the Metal Archives, it's not even taken right now *ponders*




Warlock was a German glam-metal band of the 1980s, fronted by the (then)_ HAWT_ Doro Pesch, who later left to go solo.  Doro's vox were not quite as rough as Wendy O. Williams, but there was a pretty good bit of power there.

FWIW, they were a little heavier than most of the glam of the era, but not quite as heavy as their contemporaries, Helloween.


----------



## Starman

MrFilthyIke said:
			
		

> For Elis I'd recommend Griefshire.
> 
> http://www.elis.li/frame_en.htm




I just picked this up today and I have to say that I find it quite excellent. The lead singer has a fantastic voice. It is unfortunate that she passed away and so young.


----------



## MrFilthyIke

Starman said:
			
		

> I just picked this up today and I have to say that I find it quite excellent. The lead singer has a fantastic voice. It is unfortunate that she passed away and so young.




Tales from Heaven or Hell
Die Stadt
Show me the Way
Innocent Hearts
The Burning

These are my favorite tracks off the album.  I agree it was a loss, she had talent.


----------



## Nyaricus

So.

I went to the Exodus/Goatwhore/Arsis/Warbringer show tonight. My ticket was 25 dollars for four bands, 3 of which (all save for Warbringer) being fairly big names in the metal scene. Good deal, says me.

Well, for one it's -30 outside not counting the windchill, the ticket says doors @ 6:30 but they posted a note on the door saying doors @ 7pm. Now I'm getting a bit ticked, not to mention cold.

Then, top that off with another note posted on the doors saying Warbringer dropped off the tour. Now we're down to 3 bands, it's cold outside, and they still aren't letting people in the doors.

Then, we get inside, and there are only merch tables for Exodus and Goatwhore. I was planning to buy an Arsis hoodie, and no merch table for Arsis. Hrmph.

Turns out, they broke up not *three days* before this concert. Now I'm getting really pissed...

So, Goatwhore and Exodus played us an extra-long set, but I was pretty disappointed having to pay 25 bucks for 2 bands, buying a Goatwhore hoodie rather than a Arsis one (though I love both bands) and having a rather cold wait outside in the deepest part of Winnipegs' winter.

However, both bands put on a phenomenal show, and Goatwhore (who've been through town 3 times in the past 8 months) really had the crowd loving them; personally I thought it was a better reception than Exodus.

It was a good concert, but really only worth about 15 bucks. C'est la vie.

cheers,
--N


----------



## MrFilthyIke

At least you GET concerts.

Anything that ponders rolling through Orlando does so under the radar, or as part of an overpriced festival.

Only interesting one that came through recently was Amon Amarth, but ended up missing it due to extenuating circumstances.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Best $20 concert I ever attended:

Swervedriver/Monster Magnet/Pearl Jam/Soundgarden at a concert hall that was a converted hangar from the '50s (torn down since then).  The place was solid concrete with a stage at one end and a metal half-pipe roof- there was no place for sonic energy to go except through you. 

Odds & Ends:

1) The more I watch the current Headbanger's Ball, the more I like In Flames.  It could just be that they're standing out more from the guys who always sound like they're yelling "GORGORRRR....GOR...GOR...GORRRRRRGORGOR!" at the mike.

2) Speaking of the guys who always sound like they're yelling "GORGORRRR....GOR...GOR...GORRRRRRGORGOR!" at the mike, I have to admit that the vocalist for Nile sounds a lot more articulate than 99% of the rest of the lot.  I can actually understand the lyrics to "Papyrus Containing The Spell To Preserve Its Possessor Against Attacks From He Who Is In The Water," so I have to give him props for that.

OTOH, I can't stand any of the other songs.


----------



## Testament

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 2) Speaking of the guys who always sound like they're yelling "GORGORRRR....GOR...GOR...GORRRRRRGORGOR!" at the mike, I have to admit that the vocalist for Nile sounds a lot more articulate than 99% of the rest of the lot.  I can actually understand the lyrics to "Papyrus Containing The Spell To Preserve Its Possessor Against Attacks From He Who Is In The Water," so I have to give him props for that.
> 
> OTOH, I can't stand any of the other songs.




Unlike a lot of Nile fans, I'm of the opinion that Dallas taking over the vox from Karl was a huge plus for precisely this reason.  Karl is a godlike guitarist and writer, but he sounds like a hippo drowning in its own blood.  Dallas is _brutal_, but has clear diction and doesn't sacrifice a single iota of speed*.  Personally, I love his work as a result.


----------



## Starman

I went on a purchasing spree the other day and picked up a few albums. 

This Godless Endeavor - Nevermore. This is the first CD of theirs I have listened and I was impressed. It will probably take a few listens to fully appreciate it as it is quite dense, but I really enjoyed the lead singer's voice and the guitar work was excellent. 

Cult - Apocalyptica. An interesting turn for them as most of this is original work as opposed to the cover work they have normally stuck with, one song even had vocals. I really liked it, though. Cult has a good balance of slower, more melodic stuff with the harder, heavily distorted pieces. And even though this is mostly original work, mad props have to be given to them for their amazing cover of Hall of the Mountain King. 

The Scarecrow - Avantasia. I was a little let down with this one. After The Metal Opera Parts I and II, I was expecting more of the same, soaring, epic music. The Scarecrow is different, though. Yes, it does have glimpses of that, but it is much darker in tone. It is very good, and I will probably like it more with repeat listens (I do like dark music), but it wasn't quite what I was expecting, so I was somewhat disappointed. 

Mandrake - Edguy. Another awesome album from Edguy. I'm not sure if I like this one or Theater of Salvation better, but both are killer power metal albums.


----------



## Nyaricus

Testament said:
			
		

> Unlike a lot of Nile fans, I'm of the opinion that Dallas taking over the vox from Karl was a huge plus for precisely this reason.  Karl is a godlike guitarist and writer, but he sounds like a hippo drowning in its own blood.  Dallas is _brutal_, but has clear diction and doesn't sacrifice a single iota of speed*.  Personally, I love his work as a result.



I'm a much bigger fan of Nile pre-Ithypallic. I bought it the week it debuted, but I've yet to 'get it', and the vocals are really holding me back on it. Blegh.

OTOH, I finally, after owning the album for a year+, 'got' Behemoth's Demigod, which has insanely layered vocals on the album, to the point of stupidity, imo. However, I'm listening to the album and finding wonderful melody in the guitar work, and the vocals fit the music now.

Also, who here knows what I'm talking about when I'm talking about ALESTORM!? I just bought their CD the other day, and I'm in love. Fresh, folky symphonic power metal that has the lovely theme of PIRATES! I think they are on the verge of truely founding a new sub-genre of metal (pirate metal) much like Bathory founded viking metal. I can't wait to see if this will spawn a new movement 

cheers,
--N


----------



## Testament

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> I'm a much bigger fan of Nile pre-Ithypallic. I bought it the week it debuted, but I've yet to 'get it', and the vocals are really holding me back on it. Blegh.
> 
> OTOH, I finally, after owning the album for a year+, 'got' Behemoth's Demigod, which has insanely layered vocals on the album, to the point of stupidity, imo. However, I'm listening to the album and finding wonderful melody in the guitar work, and the vocals fit the music now.
> 
> cheers,
> --N




I'm curious, what did you think of Annihilation of the Wicked then, given that Dallas did most of the vox on it too.  Personally that's my fave album of theirs, the sheer mind-blowing speed and ferocity of that album leaves me breathless.  A close second is In Their Darkened Shrines (Unas, Breath of Horus, In Their Darkened Shrines.  Enough said).  Ithyphallic grew on me, but still isn't up to the incredible standards set by those two.

My advice on Ithyphallic?  First, you need a beastly sound system to _really _ appreciate Neil Kernon's production work and Karl's microtonal playing.  Listen to Eat of the Dead on a really good system and you'll understand.  Second, the title track.  That's the one that won me over, that thing just drips with menace.

Demigod is well worth the effort.  Zos Kia Kultis and Apostasy are still better though in my books, ZKK was them hitting their brutal heights, and Apostasy saw them really branch out.

Anyways, I'm off to watch the first few eps of Metalocalypse S2 again.  Damn being Down Under and not getting it on Adult Swim (not that I have cable, but...)

DETHKLOK DETHKLOK!


----------



## Nyaricus

Testament said:
			
		

> I'm curious, what did you think of Annihilation of the Wicked then, given that Dallas did most of the vox on it too.  Personally that's my fave album of theirs, the sheer mind-blowing speed and ferocity of that album leaves me breathless.  A close second is In Their Darkened Shrines (Unas, Breath of Horus, In Their Darkened Shrines.  Enough said).  Ithyphallic grew on me, but still isn't up to the incredible standards set by those two.



Funnily enough, AotW is the one Nile album I do not have in my possession. Personally, I think that In Their Darkened Shrines is Nile's best bar none up to this point, and that Black Seeds of Vengeance is a worthy second. The epicness of those two albums is absolutely phenomenal and mind-blowing.



			
				Testament said:
			
		

> My advice on Ithyphallic?  First, you need a beastly sound system to _really _ appreciate Neil Kernon's production work and Karl's microtonal playing.  Listen to Eat of the Dead on a really good system and you'll understand.  Second, the title track.  That's the one that won me over, that thing just drips with menace.



Lol, I'm a broke university student, but one day it's my plan to get a decent sound system  Agreed that the title track (along with As He Creates, So He Destroys) being the best track(s) on the album, in my/our opinion.



			
				Testament said:
			
		

> Demigod is well worth the effort.  Zos Kia Kultis and Apostasy are still better though in my books, ZKK was them hitting their brutal heights, and Apostasy saw them really branch out.



Really now? How did Apostasy see Behemoth branch out, exactly?



			
				Testament said:
			
		

> Anyways, I'm off to watch the first few eps of Metalocalypse S2 again.  Damn being Down Under and not getting it on Adult Swim (not that I have cable, but...)
> 
> DETHKLOK DETHKLOK!



lol. My buddy bought Season 1, and I was pretty impressed by it. Some of it gets a bitdry after awhile, but it's a decent little 'toon. 

cheers,
--N


----------



## Thunderfoot

HELLLOOOOOOOOOO METALHEADS!!!!

Just a quick update of what I hope to be a prophetic sign.
I have the next two ideas for Chapter 4 (Rush and the progressive metal movement) and Appendix 2 (Why is pop music is relevant when it sounds like crap?)

I hope to have both of these out around Easter - Currently my Shakespearean Literature and Music History Classes are kicking me in the brass monkeys.  Let's just say that listening to Gregorian Chant from the 10th century and then having to identify title, author, type and relevant points of interest on any piece therein makes for a very grumpy metalhead.  Not that the music isn't masterfully done (I mean they were still using monophony (that means single notes with no chordal structure) and some of it is really pretty good considering).

I may also get around to Chapter 5 (The early 80s - Glam goes Gold) and a third appendix (New Wave - Devo isn't metal but its waaay freakin' cool)  But that depends on my course load. 
BTW - I am graduating in May - Phi Theta Kappa and at least Cum Laude - So no, metal doesn't mean mindless.   

Keep Rockin' till you drop and then thrash in your graves
Thunderfoot


----------



## Asmo

Not a metal band or a metal record, but I can´t help but recommend Coheed & Cambrias "No world for tomorrow".
It´s a hard rock album with lots of great songs, the music is almost timeless in a way. Lots of retro rock,but everything feels fresh and alive. Highly enjoyable.

Asmo


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Congrats Thunderfoot!


----------



## Kurashu

..Hello everyone. Some people might remember me...or not. *shrugs* It's whatever; been a while - quite a while, several months I think. Blah blah blah I'm back blah blah blah. Whatever, save the welcomes for someone who is a legend.

Anyways, I've read some of this thread but not all of it. However, I'm willing to bet the subject matter of Sludge hasn't been discussed.

The basics -- which I hope to expound on later; perhaps with Thunderfoot's help (your "book," if you're calling it that, is something I've been wanting to do; I'm glad to see someone more knowledgable not butchering it like I would have -- rolled a one on my Knowledge(Metal) check)  -- is you take doom metal and toss it in a blender with hardcore punk. When you pour your smoothie out, add spices of blues and southern rock to it. Sit back and enjoy. This genre is agervated assault against your eardrums. Distortion and thick bass combine to make a wall of sound that oozes out of your speakers. Think: Black Pudding, except you don't melt.

Some Artists:
Eyehategod
Electric Wizard
Sleep
Cathedral
Candlemass
The Abominable Iron Sloth
Buzzov*en
Weedeater
Accept Death
Melvins
Mastodon
Isis
Neurosis
Bongzilla


----------



## replicant2

Speaking of metal, I caught Iron Maiden in New Jersey a week ago today. Here's a (semi) humorous review I wrote: The Rime of the Aging Metalhead


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Sometimes its cool to see the older bands in a more intimate venue than at the heights of their careers.

One of the best shows I ever got to see was BÖC at a _club_ in Austin back in the 1990s.  The set was pure "Best Of," so you know it was a singalong from the first crunching chord to the dying wail of the last bit of feedback.  If I hadn't been forced to be a wallhugger (I was on crutches), I would have been able to high-5 Buck Dharma and the boys between numbers.

For the record, the opening band was Black Pearl- Austin natives with a lead singer whose pipes were amazing and who was pretty hot, too.  They played a set so good they'd have blown even the great BÖC off the stage had it not been for _their_ juicy setlist.

They were followed by Galactic Cowboys just days before they got signed to a major label contract.  During Black Pearl's set, a huge drunk guy (their keyboardist, though I didn't know that until he got up on stage) was standing next to me, hitting on all the ladies, and occasionally almost falling on my injured leg.  He was so drunk he was missing notes & off-tempo- simply awful.  Apparently, he was fired shortly thereafter.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

BTW- Iron Maiden is featured in at least one episode of Sundance Channel's Live at Abbey Road.  Another harder band of note on the series was Muse.

(The series shows the bands practicing/performing a couple of their songs in the famous locale, interspersed with interviews.)


----------



## Thunderfoot

*Chapter 4 – Rush and the Progressive Metal Movement*
In the Late 60’s and early 70s several groups decided that Rock n’ Roll’s reputation as three chords and scream was both undeserved and unfair.  While it is true that most Rock n’ Roll was easy on the ears and easy to replicate in a garage with untrained monkeys, the musicians themselves had all come from different ‘legitimate’ musical backgrounds.  The Who, were known for there off tempo and sometimes raucous above the beat songs, but they started playing Blues clubs and shows and were listed as a Blues band for many months before their first album actually hit the Rock charts.  Likewise, bands like Cream that were the godfathers of Heavy Rock were originally listed as Electric Blues.  However, once groups Like Yes and Emerson Lake and Palmer (ELP) began utilizing Fusion Jazz, things got really interesting.  

Before Cream & ELP burst on the scene, odd time meant more than 3 minutes on a song thereby ensuring it wouldn’t get played on the radio.  After songs like “White Room”, and “Carn-evil  9” things took a dramatic turn for the better.  Art rock had finally been born and critics took notice, not only had these musicians managed to prove that they were talented, but made odd time signatures and poly-rhythmic tones catchy and mass marketable.  Once Vanilla Fudge released their uber-slow and funked down version of the Supremes “Keep Me Hanging On” it was a safe bet that it was there to stay.  

Meanwhile in Toronto a garage band was playing local high school dances and reveling in the sounds of Led Zepplin.  They were a straight ahead rock trio, an oddity in it’s own rite, but they were very talented.  Their first album was nothing more than Blues based Heavy Rock with a very Canadian sensibility, and at the height of their popularity, prior to the beginning of their U.S. tour the drummer quit due to health issues (diabetes).  Immediately an audition was ordered by their record company and several hundred drummers applied.  One entered after several days dragging his drum kit in a bunch of garbage cans.  He had no prior experience and was a devotee of Keith Moon, but stated that he preferred Jazz to Rock.  The guitar player and bass player/singer were a little more than skeptical but since they had no control over the whole thing cut into a classic hit of their own devising, which ground to a halt when the drummer decided that it needed a different beat than was originally written.  The bass player and guitarist then listened and responded in kind launching into a new song they had been writing the drummer trotted out an odd time and the bass player tried very hard to higher him on the spot.  While the record company was more than a little peeved, the band formed around this new sound and the classic Rush lineup was born.  

Neil Peart brought more than just drums and musical influence, being an avid reader and road scholar (note the spelling) he began writing alternate lyrics to the bands tunes in rehearsals, once Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson realized what he was doing, he quickly became the primary lyrists for the band.  His first major opus being the J.R.R. Tolkien inspired song ‘Rivendell’ as well as the Ayn Rand inspired “Anthem”.  It was obvious that the band that had made in roads to popular Rock n’ Roll with “Finding My Way” and “Working Man” was gone and a new band was emerging from their shell.  Their third release, though less popular than the previous two it set the stage for the future by introducing two Magnum cum Opus songs, “The Necromancer” and “Fountains of Lamneth”.  When their next album _2112 _hit the airwaves, a revolution was born and Heavy Progressive Rock was here to stay.  
If not for Rush and the in roads the created in the 70s staples of the Progressive Rock Arena would never have seen the light of day, such as fellow Canadian Rockers Triumph, New York/New Orleans rockers Zebra and such stellar acts as Queensryche and Dream Theater.  Though there is a larger underground movement of darker Metal infused Progressive Rock, they too would have been nowhere without the solid background and foundation that Rush provided, and more mainstream art Rockers like Yngwie Malmsteen would have never had the chance to get out of the gate.  If you haven’t ever delved into the Progressive side of metal, do yourself a favor and take a trip sometime.  Spend a few days listening to the older, ‘grown-up’ versions of the bands you listen to now, sure the music is dated and, gasp, even less controversial now that the events surrounding the songs are faded into history, but their significance cannot be denied.  As a side note, if you have an opinion on any of these bands prior to listening to them, find something by one of these artists that is less well known before forming a true opinion (specifically _Thunder Seven_ by Triumph and_ Operation Mindcrime_ by Queensryche come to mind as oft maligned bands based on their later more commercial successes)

On an unrelated note – an era has passed as I recently donated my hair to Locks of Love and now have a trendy spikey hair-do.  I do this every so often to do my good turn for those less fortunate.  Weep not for my hair but for those who must live through debilitating diseases such as cancer.  Now get out there and Rock your Rolls off!


----------



## Moulin Rogue

There were some developments going on in those seven years between the respective debuts of Vanilla Fudge and Rush that probably should be mentioned with regard to the roots of heavy prog; Uriah Heep, certainly. They were doing fantasy lyrics before Rush, and plunged deeper into fantasy themes than Led Zeppelin did. 

There were also a number of prog bands that weren't really metal but had one or two really heavy songs in their catalogue - King Crimson and "21st Century Schizoid Man" was influential, Genesis and "The Knife", Atomic Rooster as well. Deep Purple's earliest albums were very Vanilla Fudge-like, and of course there was that whole "Concerto" experiment. This was still in the days when Black Sabbath and Yes toured together; metal had yet to be really defined as a movement back then and there just wasn't a lot of it around yet, so I would say that "pure" prog bands were still strongly influencing the course that prog metal would take.

And if you only know Journey from the '80s with Steve Perry and "Don't Stop Believin", you might be surprised to learn that they were actually a prog band with some fairly heavy material when they started recording around the same time as Rush in the '70s - try listening to their 1977 instrumental song "Nickel and Dime" back-to-back with Rush's "Tom Sawyer" sometime.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Moulin Rogue said:
			
		

> There were some developments going on in those seven years between the respective debuts of Vanilla Fudge and Rush that probably should be mentioned with regard to the roots of heavy prog; Uriah Heep, certainly. They were doing fantasy lyrics before Rush, and plunged deeper into fantasy themes than Led Zeppelin did.
> 
> There were also a number of prog bands that weren't really metal but had one or two really heavy songs in their catalogue - King Crimson and "21st Century Schizoid Man" was influential, Genesis and "The Knife", Atomic Rooster as well. Deep Purple's earliest albums were very Vanilla Fudge-like, and of course there was that whole "Concerto" experiment. This was still in the days when Black Sabbath and Yes toured together; metal had yet to be really defined as a movement back then and there just wasn't a lot of it around yet, so I would say that "pure" prog bands were still strongly influencing the course that prog metal would take.
> 
> And if you only know Journey from the '80s with Steve Perry and "Don't Stop Believin", you might be surprised to learn that they were actually a prog band with some fairly heavy material when they started recording around the same time as Rush in the '70s - try listening to their 1977 instrumental song "Nickel and Dime" back-to-back with Rush's "Tom Sawyer" sometime.



Excellent points!  Before the pop-synth years Journey was a Fusion Jazz band.  They were originally built around the virtuoso guitar talents of Neil Schon, former guitarist for Santana (The guitar solo during "Black Magic Woman" is him, not Carlos (he was 14 at the time) and former Santana keyboard player Greg Rolle (The vocal/organ talent on said song).
And while Uriah Heep wouldn't have been on my list, I agree that their music was in that same vein (nice catch Rogue).


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

My first memory of Santana was a late-night concert tv-show...King Biscuit or Don Kirshner perhaps?

The cameraman couldn't tell which of Carlos or Neil he should be focusing on- frequently, he was on the wrong guitarist during at least part of the solos.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> My first memory of Santana was a late-night concert tv-show...King Biscuit or Don Kirshner perhaps?
> 
> The cameraman couldn't tell which of Carlos or Neil he should be focusing on- frequently, he was on the wrong guitarist during at least part of the solos.



Actually I think it was the Midnight Special with Wolfman Jack (of course they only did two songs, so. . .)


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

A quick little search showed a collection of his early TV appearances that didn't include KB or Kirshner...only Midnight Special.

Nice catch Thunderfoot- I don't often miss on classic rock trivia!

(In my defense, last I saw it many, many years ago...)


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> A quick little search showed a collection of his early TV appearances that didn't include KB or Kirshner...only Midnight Special.
> 
> Nice catch Thunderfoot- I don't often miss on classic rock trivia!
> 
> (In my defense, last I saw it many, many years ago...)



Sadly, I still remember watching that show as a wee tot. . . 
The big ones I remember from Don Kirshner were Boston, Kansas and ELO.


----------



## Ferret

I recently went to a Megadeth gig. I was expecting the mosh pit, I wasn't expecting to be crushed as I tried to get to the front, I was working my between people, and everyone else tried to move _through_ people. Movement suddenly became democratic.  

I'll know next time!


----------



## Thunderfoot

I can remember when the mosh pit was the entire floor of the auditorium - but ever since the bands have moved out of the arena and into the amphitheaters there just isn't enough room.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Earlier in this thread, I complemented the lead singer for Nile as being comprehensible- a rarity in that subgenre of metal.  I believe in giving credit where credit is due.

I add the lead singer for Amon Amarth to the list of vocalists who exceed the comprehensibility of those in his particular subgenre of metal.  

I still don't care for your stuff in general, but sir, I applaud you!  You obviously care about ensuring your fans get the full impact of your band's lyrics.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I have to say- along with the modern incarnation of The Headbanger's Ball, I've been watching a lot of VH-1 Classic's Metal Mania (and 120 Minutes into the future, FWIW).

Man!

It really makes me want to dust off the old stuff- Saxon, Alcatraz, Maiden, Priest, Sab...

MMMM-yummy!


----------



## Kurashu

Modern Headbanger's Ball is basically them playing the same song with a different band all night. Jamey Jasta doesn't help matters any either. Hatebreed was bad enough, but for MTV to give him a podium. Then Kingdom of Sorrow? Wow. Just wow. I didn't think someone could make such poor sludge, especially with a member of Crowbar on board.

Metal Mania, however, is awesome.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Following the examples of Carlos Santana and Tony Iommi, Michael Schenker has released an album of songs with each song being performed by different musicians- especially vocalists.

Some of the classic metalhead guest vocalists on it include Sebastian Bach, Joe Lynn Turner, and Paul Diano.  There are notables at every post though- Carmine Appice and Tony Levin show up, for instance...and of course, all guitar work is done by MS himself.


----------



## warlord

Quick question: What do you guys think of metalcore?


----------



## Nyaricus

warlord said:
			
		

> Quick question: What do you guys think of metalcore?



I dig a lot of it; I think that it's unfortunate that it gets bashed more for the sense of style (or lackthereof?) of the musicians than what the people are actually playing.

However, this is not to say that the music these bands are playing is _that_ terribly great in any case; there is such a glut in that scene right now that there is a lot of garbage out there and a lot of it has hit it mainstream, which is unfortunate itself.

However, completely writing off a (sub-)genre of whatever music you might dislike is inherently and incrediably close-minded, at least in my opinion (and a lot of people tend to do this, which is dumb). With metalcore, the trendy haircuts and clothes and the glut of similar bands with poorly-worded names has created a big shiny target for "real" metalheads, and (from what I hear in my city from the locals) a sense of dis-association from the punk/hardcore scene. In any case, going band-by-band will always net you a ton of terrible bands and a few really great ones, and that's how I ty approach any style of music (from Drone Doom to the dreaded Glam Metal of the 80s).

I also think how it's kinda funny with the trend of this style of music, and how it went from emo to "screamo" to metalcore to deathcore. The emo kiddies are growing up and adding in more extreme metal elements, which is something I doubt anyone saw coming.

Bands I dig: All that Remains, As I Lay Dying, God Forbid, Killswitch Engage (except their new album, which blew), Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, Unearth, Winds of Plague.

cheers,
--N


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## warlord

Personally I love metalcore, but I was in a metalcore band so I have a somewhat skewed opinion. I've noticed most metalheads I know write it off as emo becaue most metalcore thats "in" right now likes to stadle the line between metalcore and screamo (ie Underoath). But there are some good metalcore bands out there: This Run Through, As Cities Burn (their first album only though, evr since TJ left the've headed in this odd post rock direction.), Gwen Stacey and my personal favorite Arma Angelus aka Pete Wentz's good band.


----------



## Thunderfoot

To me metalcore is mostly noise.  Of course, I'm teaching the history of metal here, so I do have a skew.  I'm saddened that the industry has gotten to the point that raw energy has replaced talent. (This is a GROSS generalization - there are some notable exceptions, but they are, unfortunately, exceptions).  Emo & Grunge was pretty much the death of the metal movement in the early 90s, which for a metalhead like myself, was a punch in the gut.  Music went from party to placid; funky to flaccid.  It was less about the music and more about, I hate the world and myself and now I'm going to screw up your life; not that metal hasn't always been on the edge, but where it once was about telling a story that made you either take action or disagree, now it has more of a, life's worthless kill yourself attitude (again - generalization)

I think the real proof in the pudding though, is in the up and coming bands (local types).  Before, you had to have some modicum of talent to book a show, now, if you own a distortion pedal and can growl like a bear, you're in.  From the production side of things, it really rips my heart out.  Now see what you've done, I've gotten melancholy. . .


----------



## warlord

Double Post. My Bad.


----------



## warlord

I can growl like a bear. Can you get me a record deal Thunderfoot?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

_I_ can growl like a bear.

Its simply not enough these days.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Alright you two . . .


----------



## warlord

Yeah, but Danny if I rember right you also have a 4 and half octave range and play about 6 different insturments. All I do is scream/growl and play bass. But growling aside what do you guys think of rock historians classifying metal as music for white males?


----------



## Thunderfoot

warlord said:
			
		

> Yeah, but Danny if I rember right you also have a 4 and half octave range and play about 6 different insturments. All I do is scream/growl and play bass. But growling aside what do you guys think of rock historians classifying metal as music for white males?



With few exceptions - dead on.  Unfortunately, the masses tend to follow what they are fed by marketing executives.  There are some obvious exceptions but for the most part, rock n' roll is a white man's game.  Frankly, I think the genre suffers due to that fact.  Jimi Hendrix, Living Color, Sevendust (to name but a few) are great examples of black males that can split the industry open; Carlos Santana, Los Lonely Boys and Sepultura the Latino market and there are a host of young ladies that prove the talent is there.  But, by and large, the target audience is always young to middle aged white males.  

Bands with a feminine focus usually are labeled as 'wuss rock' (Journey comes screaming to mind), and those of ethnic bent are so reviled by their own ethnicities that they usually fold, capitulate and end up as backing musicians in more 'socially accepted' venues.  (I remember seeing an episode of _Showtime at the Apollo_ where Living Color were greeted with blank stares and disingenuous applause.  Meanwhile an Asian break dancer was treated as the second coming of Christ. (Which is sad, because they completely blew the stage apart that day.)  I hate bringing race/ethnicity into these discussions, but unfortunately, it is a horrible fact of the industry.  

As long as this discussion can stay civil, I think this is okay, but if it starts getting heated, we should probably steer clear of further discussions that may bring this thread to a close.  However, if there is enough interest I can do a chapter on 'Ethnicity in Metal' - I'm already planning a 'Women Take the Stage' chapter.

Thunderfoot
Metal Teacher and Headmaster of Discipline. . .


----------



## Moulin Rogue

warlord said:
			
		

> But growling aside what do you guys think of rock historians classifying metal as music for white males?




I think it's kinda like classifying D&D as a hobby for white males. You can find plenty of exceptions to the stereotype out there. But at the same time, you look around and wonder how much there might be to that idea. Hmmmmmm.

Well, if we agree that men enjoy violent entertainment more than women do, there's part of the answer there. Even when metal's lyrics are not literally about violent behavior, a lot of the imagery still pertains to "battles" and "fighting back" and defiance and so on. And it's often played with a general feeling of aggression. There is a lot of talk about "metal warriors united" and "brothers of metal" and so on, evoking a very male camaraderie of the sort seen in sports teams and military squads and hunting buddies and so on. So the question then is, why?

Social status is very important to males. It means power, which means the ability to provide, which increases your attractiveness to females, which increases your chances to spread your genes along.  Heavy metal speaks to uniquely male issues of power and disenfranchisement - if you're an outcast, if you don't fit into society, you won't get that social status. But metal offers an appealing solution: you can fight back. You don't have to change who you are. You have a right to live the way you want, and there is a whole metal community willing to fight alongside you for that right. 

In short, my guess, or "theory" or whatever, is that some of metal's appeal comes from channeling aggression (or just general energy) into a socially acceptable medium (much like rough sports, or action movies, or games where the player slays imaginary orcs   ) and some of it is about overcoming "guy problems". Women have their own set of gender-based problems so metal doesn't resonate with them in quite the same way, thus fewer female metal fans.... this post is all generally speaking of course, and my two cents and all that, just coming from someone who has listened to metal long out of the teenage years and later started asking, what IS the appeal, anyway   

As for the white fanship thing, there are quite a few non-European countries like Japan and Brazil where metal is still massive, so I don't know about that one. Someone could probably make a good argument that rap music addresses issues of power and disenfranchisement in a way that speaks much more specifically to the black community than metal does.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> But growling aside what do you guys think of rock historians classifying metal as music for white males?




There is a lot of truth to it.  Its not like women, blacks or other ethnicities are absent from the genre, but they are definitely underrepresented.

Speaking as a black male metalhead, I can assure you that in the USA and in most European countries, the predominant skin color in a typical hard rock concert, and also that women are still pretty rare, either on stage or off.

When I lived in San Antonio- a good city for metal, BTW- I used to attend concerts with my friends.  All white.  3, however, were women.*
That group was anomalous- typically the pods of pals showing up to the doors with their tickets were running 80% male.  My first arena show there- a disasterous, technical difficulty-riddled outing by *Dio/Megadeth/Savatage*- was a sea of caucasians and hispanics.

I recall in particular one club I attended regularly in Austin in which I routinely saw one black girl at every show I attended.  We never met, but we always gave each other a nod of recognition.  I never saw another black face in the audience of that club, though occasionally one would show up on stage- like at the *Ice-T/Bodycount/Eye & I* show (one of the best I've seen, BTW).

Part of it (for blacks at least) was that the genre didn't speak to black youth and musicians.  Songs about Satan, rainbows in the dark, and the like, simply don't resonate within the black community the way they do among the white community.

Artists like Hendrix looked past the lyrical trappings and found a genre that could support lyrics about social issues, urban blight, black alienation...yeah, and drugs, too.

But the black community- and thus, black musicians- still finds more lyrical and social support within more traditional genres such as blues, gospel, jazz and funk.

Its changing...slowly.  *Hendrix* begat *Bad Brains*, *John Butcher* and *Tony MacAlpine*, whom in turn inspired *Living Colour*, *Fishbone*, *Follow For Now*, *24-7 Spyz*, *Mother's Finest*, *Eye & I*, *Eric Gales*, and the guys in bands like *Lucy Brown*, *Killswitch Engage*, *King's X*, *Straight Line Stitch*, *Sevendust*...

And so many more. 

* One, as it turns out, was a freelancer to Kerrang magazine...without a car.  As a buddy with a car, I got to go to a lot of concerts for free- including backstage passes to shows by *Rik Emmet* (of Triumph), *LA Guns*, *Shark Island*, *Pat Travers*, *Dirty Looks* and many more.


----------



## VorpalWarrior69

Shark Island?  Wow...reminds of my youth hanging out on the Sunset Strip.  Did they make it out to San Antonio before or after Law of the Order?  Man...I loved those guys.


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## Thunderfoot

_*Rik Emmet!?*_
I so hate you . . .  Triumph is one of my favorite groups of all time.  Right now I'm trying to figure out which bank I can knock over so I can see them reunited at Rocklahoma and still make it to GenCon.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Re: Shark Island

They showed up after _Law of the Order_- they opened for LA Guns.  They were cool- one guy politely offered us a sniff of his blow (we declined), and the lead singer was fighting off a cold with OJ and vitamins.  They were so good, I decided to buy the album (which I had been considering, but hadn't bought at the time).

LA Guns, OTOH, was pretty rude.

Unfortunately, so was the SA crowd.  The cholos were there to see LA Guns, and not only didn't join in the fun with SI (standing almost motionless throughout their set), but some guys even chanted for LA Guns near the end.

FYI, I *just* found out that SI released a second studio album in 2006 called_ Gathering of the Faithful._

Re: Rik Emmet

He rocked!

He also was one of the nicer guys we got backstage to see.  He didn't get wasted and hit on my friend and didn't just blow us off.

The nicest band we met were the dudes from King's X.  After playing a killer show with Masters of Reality, they hung out in the alley behind the club for_ hours_ signing autographs and just talking, mere yards from their waiting tour bus.  I who had nothing for them to sign, just thanked them each individually for their awesome show and their face time. They autographed my _Out of the Silent Planet_ the next time they passed through town.


For the record, King's X released an album today called _XV._


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## VorpalWarrior69

Shark Island are definitely great guys.  I haven't heard the new album yet, but I see from the track listing that they have a couple of pre-_Law of the Order_ songs on it.  Cool.  
By far the coolest band I ever got to hang out with was Racer X.  Their crew snuck me and my friends into a couple clubs that we were too young for.  I begged (and really do mean begged) them to give me guitar lessons (and I actually got a couple).

I know you aren't a big fan of death (growl) metal.   Have you checked out any of the melodic stuff like Dark Tranquility and Insomnium?  I pretty much hate the low growls as well, but for some reason, I can work with both of those bands.


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## Thunderfoot

*Chapter 5 – Glam Goes Gold (or how I stopped worrying and learned to love the synthesizer)*

The time is the late 70s, Iggy Pop is drugged out of his mind, The New York Dolls wear more make-up than Poison ever owned, and David Bowie is gold most of the time and as androgynous as Pat on Saturday Night Live in the 90s or Michael Jackson at any point in his career past 1986.  It is hard to deny that the music from this time period and this genre was a little lacking musically, not stylistically, but musically.  Listen to any of Bowie’s stuff and for him to be strutting around in gold lamiea and glitter with platform boots that would give Gene Simmons pause, his music was more akin to a single acoustic guitar and a bar stool in a dark backroom club. 

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but the 70s still hadn’t figured form following function.  Then something amazing happened, New Year’s Eve 1979; it was like the whole world decided to start fresh and the music industry was no different.  New Wave, Punk, and Popular music embraced a burgeoning technology that had just started to make a splash in the 70s, the synthesizer.  A box that had a dizzying array of buttons and might or might not have a keyboard style input device.  The Moog was the grand–daddy of them all and the heavy rock stand-by _“Frankenstein”_ by the Edgar Winter Group, and anything by ELO (Electric Light Orchestra at the time) contained several layers of the instrument.  But in 1983 a wonderful thing happened, Yamaha released the DX7, the first digital FM synthesizer (actually it was a phase-modulated synth, but who cares, it sounded great, was portable and you didn’t have to have a degree in engineering to understand how it worked.)  From that time forward, the keyboard synth (or keyboard) was here to stay and the old Moog style button/dial/wire models rode off into history.

By 1984 every pop music group had a synthesizer or keyboard player.  The old Fender Rhodes or Hammond B3 organs were retired or at least moved to a secondary position of authority in the arsenal of serious keyboard artists.  But a pivotal moment for Heavy Metal came with the release of Bon Jovi’s first radio hit _“Runaway”_ (1983 single release).  That cool, choppy, keyboard intro and Jon Bon Jovi’s rough vocal straining pretty much hailed the end of the guitar as the premier instrument of Rock n’ Roll (at least for many years).  Producers moved into the studio and sound engineers actually started injecting ideas of how music should sound overriding band decisions (a situation that would never have taken wing in the 60s & 70s where the tried to ‘find’ the sound, not create it.)

Unlike other editions where I would list a group of bands and tell their contributions, this is more about the hardware involved, because EVERY band had at least one synth player in the group.  Now some would argue that this was a bad thing for heavy rock music to incorporate a fresh clean sound into the music, and for the purist, I would agree, however, they were just so darn keen, (Did I actually just say that?) and versatile that you could now interject sound effects into any song without fear of trying to reproduce them on stage with thousands of dollars of audio gear and hope that the sound engineer or hired gun under the stage didn’t miss his cue.   Bands that shaped the future of heavy rock were there when they rolled out the originals and began to incorporate and update with the rest of them; Rush, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Whitesnake, Dio, Rainbow, Van Halen, Journey and a host of others followed Bon Jovi and brought out the synth and they found out it was just shot in the arm they need to reach the mass market.  On a side note Bon Jovi didn’t headline with this album (they opened up for .38 Special) and it would be another two years before they became headliners with the sound they created.  Now it can be argued that there were others that came before Bon Jovi, and of course they did, some of them even had keyed instruments and some even experimented with synthesizers and sequencers, but until that time, there was never a full time position in a rock band for a keyboard player unless your name was Linda McCartney (Wings), Jerry Lee Lewis (himself) Greg Rollie (Journey/Santana) or Keith Emerson (ELP) and with the exception of Jerry Lee or ELP those positions were usually support positions.  

So what did synthesizers do to the industry, revolutionized it and eventually killed it.  Glam rock and the genre of synth metal that followed in the late 80s was the harbinger of the end even as it was responsible for opening up the Heavy Metal and Heavy Rock sound to mass consumption by the public at large.  Progressive groups like Triumph and Rush sequenced large parts of their concerts to recreate studio work, band hired keyboardists to accompany them on tour and play from off stage to supplement their acts and by 1987 almost every major mainstream act had a keyboard player as an actual band member (with some notable exceptions of course.)  Where before the 5 man line-up would have two guitarists, now there was a lead guitar and lead keys, or the singer had to play either bass or rhythm guitar in order to recreate that ‘classic’ sound of dual guitars while the keyboard player gave sound support.  But the killing shot was fired by a band that for the most part gets a footnote in musical history aside from a few rabid fans – Tesla.  On their freshman release _Mechanical Resonance_ was a small tag line at the bottom of their liner notes “no machines”.  Their lack of synthesized audio, in any form, was a pot shot at the new status quo and began the take down for what was quickly becoming a meltdown of epic proportions in the music industry.

By the time Nirvana hit the stage with a stripped down three piece and a “who cares” attitude, it was all over for Heavy Metal and the heady days of hearing your favorite metal group on popular radio or catching them on MTV (you know when it stood for MUSIC television) was over.  Hip-hop, R&B and rap had won the battle of the electronic and rock crawled under a rock and pulled out the distortion pedal again.  Glam rock had come full circle, where once the music was all visual and no true substance, it was again.  But for a brief shining moment in the 80s, glam was about the aural substance, and all thanks to a piece of plastic that was improperly labeled and today wouldn’t compete with a cheap keyboard you can purchase at Wal-Mart…

I realize that this may seem out of place in my history of metal, but once you do your research you realize how pivotal it truly was.  Some groups of note that used synths to great lengths and great effect (besides the ones mentioned above) were Pretty Maids (a must hear group), Yngwie Malmsteen, Zebra, Dream Theater, Night Ranger, Great White and a host of others.  As to their effect, there are several bands emerging now that are pulling their synthesizers out of the closet and blending them with distorted guitars, a testament to the effect they hold over music even today.


----------



## warlord

Did you really just endorse Great White? They suck. I'm sorry they never did anything for me in their prime and don't even get me started on the post-we lit all our fans on fire great white. They're even worse. Saw that version live at some dive in in Mpls and it was honestly the worst show I've ever seen. There has to be some other hair band you can endorse besides Great White I mean c'mon people.


----------



## Nyaricus

VorpalWarrior69 said:
			
		

> I know you aren't a big fan of death (growl) metal.   Have you checked out any of the melodic stuff like Dark Tranquility and Insomnium?  I pretty much hate the low growls as well, but for some reason, I can work with both of those bands.



And Amon Amarth. They are _godly_.


----------



## Thunderfoot

warlord said:
			
		

> Did you really just endorse Great White? They suck. I'm sorry they never did anything for me in their prime and don't even get me started on the post-we lit all our fans on fire great white. They're even worse. Saw that version live at some dive in in Mpls and it was honestly the worst show I've ever seen. There has to be some other hair band you can endorse besides Great White I mean c'mon people.



Sorry, yes.  In their hey-day they were awesome.  Saw them open up for Night Ranger and for Whitesnake in the 80s and they rocked the house.  I realize that things got a little strange after the incident in New Jersey but, they weren't even the same band at that point.  I aught to know, I met them.

And for an electric blues band, they were extremely gifted musicians, even though they got air-play for their crap and their re-makes (ala Tesla actually).  And as always, this is about education not opinion; if you agree, great, if not, then that's fine too.  
Keep makin' the eardrums bleed - Thunderfoot!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Did you really just endorse Great White? They suck.




Great White had awesome bass lines and better than average blues-rock guitar supporting a vocalist who had an Americanized "Robert Plant" style voice, so yes, they were pretty good.

(Didn't meet them, but saw them live a couple of times.)

I can't say I've heard anything with their new lineup, though.

Tesla was pretty killer, though I didn't appreciate their recent covers album- musically, it was all right, but it had a horrible marketing plan.  It was nominally a double album for which you only paid the cost of a single CD...but the complete release  (the part with the most interesting tracks) was only available to those who actually attended a Tesla concert.

Since they passed through town before I could get my hands on the CD (and find out that useful info), I was pretty much screwed.


----------



## VorpalWarrior69

Tesla's first two albums put them in a class above almost all other American hard rock at the time.  I really hated what they did after those two albums, but those two albums stand on their own as examples of great songwriting (especially with respect to what else was getting airplay at the time).

Great White was a love/hate thing.  I dug the musicians and the tone, but disliked the ready for pop radio songwriting that took over after the first album.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

A little more on synth...

In all fairness, heavy music had a few bands featuring keyboards from the get-go.

Deep Purple always had a pretty prominent keyboard element to their music thanks to founder and ivoryman extraordinaire Jon Lord.

However, few heavy bands followed that particular lead, and most of them were really prog bands in the vein of Yes, with musicians inspired by guys like Rick Wakeman- though Tony Kaye was no slouch, he wouldn't venture beyond the organ, while Wakeman was an early adopter of the Moog line.

Wakeman also played on Black Sabbath's "Sabra Cadabra," FWIW.

Dream Theater's first album is a triumph of prog rock, equal to almost anything I could name from Yes or King Crimson.  Though I love them dearly, the rest has been a bit hit or miss, but when they hit, they NAIL it.

Pretty Maids really is one of those bands you need to hear to understand.  They have elements of prog, but rock harder than most prog bands ever did.  IMHO, they were WAY ahead of their time, and failed because of it.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> A little more on synth...
> 
> <SNIP>
> Pretty Maids really is one of those bands you need to hear to understand.  They have elements of prog, but rock harder than most prog bands ever did.  IMHO, they were WAY ahead of their time, and failed because of it.



All good points and a note on Pretty Maids, their ground breaking work on synths lead to future bands like Children of Bodom and Dragonforce.  The work that the Maids did was surely the foundation for most up-tempo synth in Heavy Rock today. Even old hands like Jens Johansson took a couple of cues from the bands keyboardist Alan Owens (Allan Neilsen)(The band took Anglicanized names to be an easier sell to non-Danish markets.) Jens an accomplished pianist and synth player liked Alan's straight ahead and powerful style that he adopted some of his techniques.  (From about 1986 on his playing undergoes a slight change if you listen closely.)

Truly an underrated band.


----------



## Moulin Rogue

I just saw that today, May 29th, is the 25th anniversary of "Heavy Metal Day" at the US Festival. The lineup consisted of:

Quiet Riot
Motley Crue
Ozzy
Judas Priest
Triumph
Scorpions
Van Halen

Entering any of these band names plus "us festival" into youtube will turn up some quarter century vintage footage


----------



## Thunderfoot

Moulin Rogue said:
			
		

> I just saw that today, May 29th, is the 25th anniversary of "Heavy Metal Day" at the US Festival. The lineup consisted of:
> 
> Quiet Riot
> Motley Crue
> Ozzy
> Judas Priest
> Triumph
> Scorpions
> Van Halen
> 
> Entering any of these band names plus "us festival" into youtube will turn up some quarter century vintage footage



And as a side note six of the seven groups are either on tour and preparing to go on tour currently.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Progressive music has several heavy offshoots- metal, rock, even punk.

One that is often forgotten is Progressive jazz- aka Fusion.

And it should not be- some of Fusion's best can bring it as heavy as in any other genre.

Case in point: Return to Forever.  The classic lineup of Chick Corea (keyboards), Lenny White (drums), Stanley Clark (bass) and Al Di Meola (guitar) is currently on tour after 25 years and countless solo albums...and I just saw them last night at the Nokia center in Grapevine, TX (a suburb of Dallas).

Simply put, they rock.  White brings the thunder.  Corea scorches the ivories.  And Clark and Di Meola bring as much string wizardry as anyone would care to see.

If you are a fan of prog, and this tour comes anywhere near you, _*go see it.*_


----------



## Thunderfoot

Fusion is awesome - The Dixie Dregs gave us a lot of Metal stars through the years, specifically Jordan Rudruss (Keyboards), Rod Morgenstein (Drums), and founding member Steve Morse (Guitar).
And of course Frank Zappa doesn't really fit in anywhere, so fusion jazz/progressive rock is kind of his homeland.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Thunderfoot, I thought you'd appreciate this...

I was watching Metal Mania the other night and saw an early video of Black Sabbath doing "Paranoid", and Bill Ward's drum kit was positively spartan- a couple of cymbals & snares, a single kicker, and a couple of others.  He was still quite visible.

Then, flipping over to Headbanger's Ball, I witnessed drummer after drummmer practically entombed behind a wall of drums.
_
Wha hoppen?_  When did drummers become so..."equipment" conscious?


----------



## Moulin Rogue

It started in the "arena rock" era in the mid-'70s when bigger became better - elaborate stage designs, pyro effects, and so on. Obviously KISS are the example that comes to mind most readily.

Then music became even more visual in the '80s with MTV. Look at the videos to "Jump" and "Panama" from Van Halen's 1984 album and look at the size of Alex' kit by then. 

Metal musicians tend to pride themselves on technical skill, so the ability to play monster drum kits and 12-string basses inevitably became part of the whole bombastic nature of the genre once the shredfest thing got going in the '80s.


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## Thunderfoot

Rogue - you are partially correct.

Believe it or not heavy metal actually stole from Jazz, Progressive Rock and Disco when it came to set size.
Anyone not interested in drum history tune away now, this is long and boring.
The drum set is actually the Frankenstein creation of the old theater musicians of the early 1900s.  When silent film and Vaudeville were the standard, kits were used not only for rhythmic purposes but also for sound effects (which by the way is how the hi-hat was invented, it was originally a sound effect, not a real instrument)  Tom-toms were Chinese or Native American in make and were "tacked" on in order to reproduce an array of sounds; before this all percussion was orchestra style.

Ludwig, Slingerland & Leedy (in the US), and Premier (UK) were some of the very first companies to introduce "Jazz" kits or drumsets.  The usually consisted of a bass drum, a snare, a floor tom and mounted tom and an array of cymbals that varied by performer but almost certainly included a ride, a crash and a hi-hat.  Eventually by the 40s the 'standard' five piece (two mounted toms) was almost as common as the four piece.

In the late 50s/early 60s the four and five piece Jazz combo was the standard though a few jazz pioneers (namely Gene Kruppa and Buddy Rich) began to experiment with adding an extra bass drum or another floor tom.  Though rock was still using the 'traditional' kit, changes were already happening.

Rock drummers that notably broke the 4/5 mold were Ginger Baker of Cream (who used 2 basses or kicks, 2 floor toms and three mounted toms), Keith "the Loon" Moon of the Who (who supposedly had all those drums so he wouldn't miss) and Carl Palmer of ELP who added so many orchestral instruments to his traditional kit that he looked like a one-man circus when he preformed lived (and along with Emerson's keyboards along the back wall... you get the picture.)  Likewise, the amount of cymbals these guys used started to break the standard three mold as well.  Though not pivotal in name the group Iron Butterfly's hit "Ina-goda-da-vida" with its 3 minute drum solo in the middle set the tone for more drums equals better sound.

By the time the 70s came around most all drummers had 7 to 10 piece kits, even for the most simple music, part of it was the show of course, but drummers were beginning to be released from the mold of 2 & 4 and providing the backbeat.  Progressive groups like Rush, Kansas and the like needed all that 'firepower' in order to open the musical envelope while veteran groups like the Grateful Dead used a two drummer attack with a dizzying array of percussion from all over the world during this time period.  Disco drummers were also trying to get more sound for the pound and acts like Earth, Wind and Fire and ELO were sporting the monster kits as well.   To compensate the drum companies all had 7 - 9 piece kits listed in their catalogs as well as a large selection of add on drums to make really impressive kits. 

Of course as Rogue mentioned KISS played a big part as well, Peter Criss couldn't match the on stage theatrics of his fellow members so his drum riser got larger and larger and eventually became a mobile weapons platform for the band's pyrotechnic show.   In the 80s Heavy Metal was very much about bigger is better and many groups felt this meant drums as well as stage shows (ala KISS).  The most notorious example was Luis Cardenas who sported a monster 75 piece kit painted in tiger stripes.  This was the largest single drum kit at the time and though it has been 'officially' (see note below) been beaten in the Guinness book of World Records in my mind stands as the single largest kit ever created for continuous play.

One of the problems with these kits is of course the tremendous amount of time and dedication it takes to set them up, get them set just right and still be able to have the drummer hit stuff.  The CAGE by TAMA, a rack system that allowed the drummer to build up as well as around, enveloped the drummer allowing them to surround themselves and still function is perhaps the pinnacle of basic technology created for the drumset, however it was the invention and eventual improvement of the electronic kit that eventually started the Preparation-H like shrinkage of the over-sized kit hemorrhoid. 

Neil Peart was the ambassador of electronics when he in 1988 threw half of his kit away and integrated a wide array of electronic triggers to still have the sounds he craved but without having to have a single tractor trailer haul around his drum kit for tours.  This came after seeing smaller jazz players like Peter Erskine and Billy Cobham integrate electronics into their normal sets but only for the purpose of electronic sounds.

The killer came in the 90s when grunge killed the large drumset (like it killed so many other things in music).  4 piece kits became the norm and often the drummer was once again relegated to 2 & 4 with no fills.  

As an aside, many drummers are much better on smaller kits, especially if that's what they are used to, their solos and fills are much more musical and inventive, however when faced with a drummer who has command of a larger kit and its intricacies, they just can't keep up.

BTW I play a ghosted 9 pieces (an 8 piece with a double-pedal and several electronics thrown in for good measure - viva la grandiose)

**** Luis Cardenas was replaced as having the largest kit when Chad Smith in conjunction with a Drum Store assembled a massive 129 piece kit for him to play.  He did play it, but only once and the kit was just a bunch of 5 and 6 piece sets that they put side by side and then sold off as individual set to fans as a publicity stunt to sell drums.  This in my book is cheap, especially since Luis' kit was custom built and with a few exceptions (like the kicks and the dual snares) did NOT have a single replicated piece in the count.  He will always in my mind, at least until a real drummer that can back it up and put it out on the road, will always hold that record. ****

So, does that answer your questions?  
Thunderfoot, bringing the thunder since 1970...something..


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Leave it to a drummer...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Leave it to a drummer...



 I'll take that as a complement.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Definitely!


----------



## Thunderfoot

*Chapter 6 – Women in Metal, Hawt and Heavy!!!!*

Hard Rock and Heavy Metal have pretty much always been the prevue of white males, whether as groups or solo acts the middle aged white male has almost always dominated.  But occasionally something soft and round and alluring prances on the stage and things are changed, at least for a while.  And while the objectification of women is a proto-typical theme in heavy rock, these young ladies didn’t seem to mind and often jumped into it themselves.  
Side note about this article, unlike my other entries this one will cover a history up to and including some modern-day acts instead of limiting itself to a single time frame, there are also some parallel genres and acts that will be noted to show the progression from soft and feminine to Hawt and Heavy.  This article aims to be all inclusive, but like every other article, there is just not enough space to include everybody, so if your favorite artist was not included, please understand that it was due to space and time, not to any bias.  

Female groups in rock n’ roll are nothing new, even in the very beginning groups like the Supremes, the Ronnettes, etc were churning out hits right along side their male counter parts, but while the gamut of music created by men spanned all different genres and subjects, women were relegated to cheesy love songs and broken-hearted cry fests. (q.v. “Leader of the Pack”, “Goin’ to the Chapel”, “Be My Baby”, “It’s My Party (And I’ll Cry if I Want To)”, etc.)  There are several examples of women trying to break the mold and ending up as fodder for the trashcan and the cutting room floor.  Ronnie Spector tried to update her sound in the 60s and ended up being cut from her husband’s roster of artists (as well as his bedroom and life.)  Disco gave a new genre for women to express themselves, but again, it was a one trick pony for the lasses.  However, a couple of sisters from Canada hit the stage in the mid to late 70s that proved women were far from frail and fragile.  

Heart released their breakout album “Dreamboat Annie” in 1976.  It contained the requisite soft and fluffy song “Dreamboat Annie” (not once, but three times).  However the opening track “Magic Man” was different, more Led Zepplin than The Ronnettes, telling the tale of not lost love, but how the singer’s life was changed by an older man that led her away from home and showed her “true” love or at least the end of her sexual innocence.  This was not allowed in the previous world of women in music, because love was a noble goal of women in the world at the time, open sexuality was still frowned upon.  Even thought the sexual revolution was ending and women’s rights were on the rise, this was not “socially acceptable” in the realms of what “nice girls” did.  The casual listener would have shrugged this off, but the most popular single from the album “Crazy on You” and the third track talked about not just having sex but enjoying it… what kind of hussies were these Wilson sisters!!!  To cap it all off, the track “White Lightning & Wine” tells the story of a one night stand left on the highway after the young female sobers up, after she enjoyed a night passion.  The Wilson sisters would stick around for another 18 years on the charts in various amounts of success, singing about love, lust and heat in various amounts and with both soft subtle tones and blistering guitar licks.  Though not as talented as some later groups it is hard to argue that Heart is one of the most influential on women’s music in the later years and are sited as an influence by several prominent female artists over the next several decades.

Another group that garnered a little success during this period is noted more for what each member did after they left the group rather than what they did while a member of the group.  The Runaways were an L.A. based all-girl rock band (the first of their kind) that ended up playing a few opening shows for such noted performers as Cheap Trick, Van Halen and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, however it was when they opened up for The Ramones that the band found their niche and quickly became part of the US punk movement.  Never really reaching success, this group was the training ground for Joan Jett (solo and Joan Jett and the Blackhearts), Lita Ford (solo), Micki Steele (The Bangles), Ann Bolyne (Détente) and Peggy Foster (Steve Vai).  Their brand of straight ahead rock n’ roll while infectious was suited more for movie soundtracks and bubblegum shows than serious FM radio-air play, however once again the lyrical content proved girls were no longer made of sugar and spice and one song “Saturday Night Special” proved they might be made of whips and chains…

After leaving the Runaways, Joan Jett proved to be the greatest female rock act of all time (at least for a while anyway) through the early 80s.  She garnered a series of successful albums and singles that have become all time rock anthems “I Love Rock n’ Roll” and “I Hate Myself for Lovin’ You” proved she had the chops when left to her own designs and proved that you can’t keep a good women down.  While not as sharp as some other acts to follow, her straight ahead no-nonsense brand of rock kept the door open for other female acts.  

Lita Ford retreated from the professional music world immediately following the Runaways, but kept making music, it wasn’t until she hooked-up with Ozzy Osbourne’s wife and manager Sharon that Lita would get a chance to show that she could sing, write and play.  Unlike every other female guitarist, she was a true rock n’ roll lead guitarist, she refused to hire a lead guitarist, insisted that she play all the leads on her first album and pulled it off.  Though most known for her duet with Ozzy “Close My Eyes Forever”, and the radio-friendly “Kiss Me Deadly”, the little known “Back to the Cave” and other music shows that when she wasn’t selling out, she was rocking out.

Punk was a much more forgiving proving ground for female acts with Wendy O. Williams and the Plasmatics, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and the Waitresses all breaking the mold with strong female lead singers that were unafraid of their sexuality or the power of the, female genitalia.  While only the Waitresses scored any real chart or airplay success (discounting the one of pop anthem “Peekaboo” by Siouxsie, each changed the musical landscape that followed, while each group could have a separate chapter on their own, I will leave their contributions listed as, unheralded and numerous.  Be warned that the fluid nature of punk and new-wave allowed each of these acts to produce songs that were both hard and heavy and sweet and sugary – it’s a mixed bag so be warned that not everything sounds like it belongs on a head-banger’s iPod.

While the Runaways were moving from rock to punk another all-girl group was moving the other direction.  The Go-Go’s started their musical career playing the punk scene, wearing garbage bag dresses and spiking their hair, a far cry from their spit and polish image that would later turn out such pop anthems as “Vacation” and “We Got the Beat”.  While not as talented musically as the Runaways, it was obvious that they were not swayed by their size (the tallest member of the group was drummer Gina Schock at 5’ 7”) or ability.  With the only alternative for young girls in music being Madonna or Banarama, the Go-Go’s were both easy to look at and listen to.  As the group’s popularity increased they however, started to lose the edge they began with and moved closer and closer to the tried and true bubblegum sound that ‘good girls’ were supposed to play, as evidenced by Belinda Carlisle’s singles once she left the group.

Another all-girl band that started hard and ended with a fluffy thump was The Bangles.  Before the video camera (as well as the pumping hormones of about a million teenage boys) fell in love with Susanna Hoff’s eyes, The Bangles were a group of equality, built upon the foundation by former rock star Micki Steele of The Runaways, each member provided musical talent and vocals, splitting the work load over each member.  Talented and beautiful they quickly rose to fame, however MTV ruined it by introducing them to the world and video producers quickly made Susanna Hoff’s the ‘lead’ vocalist, much to the chagrin of her band mates.  

While Pop rock was trying to cross-over women’s roles in rock Doro Pesch made a splash in the Metal group Warlock.  This classic Aryan beauty and harsh vocals of Doro coupled with the heavy blistering guitar and bass work provided by the all-male musicians kicked the male listening metal fans around the world in their collective groins.  Where Heart, Joan Jett and Lita Ford had at least an inclining of femininity in their style, there was no telling Doro’s vocals from any other male metal singer of the 80s, aside from the range, until you actually saw a picture.  While not gaining a lot of commercial success, two major exceptions were the 1986 single “Fight for Rock” and 1987s “All We Are” both enjoying some radio airplay.  

The only all-girl heavy metal act to hit the scene was 1980s hair metal group Vixen, formed by the dregs of a combination of failed Sunset strip bar bands, Vixen broke the charts and hearts of a world of male metal heads (I really wanted to find a back-beat with the bassist), finding not only commercial success, but acceptance among their peers as a legitimate group.  The radio friendly cuts “Edge of Broken Heart”, “How Much Love” and the requisite heart-break ballad song “Cryin’” spun around the world and enjoyed heavy rotation of MTV, a feat that many of their male counterparts couldn’t even accomplish.  Sadly, like other 80s metal bands, their success was short-lived thanks to the rising emergence of grunge, so we never really got to see what these young ladies could really do.  

As well as those mentioned there are also a string of one hit wonders that emerged in the 80s that, while having no real effect on music as a whole and whose careers (if they can really be called as such) are much more of a drip than a splash kept the fires alive in the gaps while the next big group came along.  Among these beauties are Sandy Saraya “Love has Taken it’s Toll” and the blues inspired Alannah Myles “Black Velvet” (A favorite of strippers everywhere), research is the best way to find what appeals to you, but make sure you check the musical fem-fatales out. 

And so, for years there was a drought, where metal once again became a boy’s game and an underground game at that.  However, there is a re-emergence of heavy rock talent that means that things might once again show promise.  Lacuna Coil, Otep, Lullacry, Paramore, Nightwish and many others show that females in metal are back and most likely here to stay.  And I for one say, I’m am truly thankful, leather & lace just looks better on women, doesn’t it?  

Keep your head bangin’ and your ears bleedin’, 
Your headmaster of pain ~ Thunderfoot


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Thunderfoot, excellent post as usual...but with two glaring omissions.

Any mention of women in rock is incomplete without mentioning Janice Joplin.  Some of her stuff was as heavy as Zep's, and she definitely proved the girls could bring the *noize!*  She had power in her vox unequaled until present day vocalists like Melissa Etheridge (I saw her post-chemo rendition of a JJ song, and she NAILED it), and hard rockers like Doro and the current crop (from bands like Arch Enemy and Straight Line Stitch).

Also, you forgot to mention Blondie's emergence from the NYC punk/new wave scene- arguably the (comercially) biggest and (artistically) important band fronted by a woman in those genre.  I'd at least put Blondie ahead of the Go-Go's and The Bangles.

A third omission, though not glaring in any way, is that of semi-obscure guitar wizardess, Jennifer Batten.  You may not know the name, but you've seen her mane- her sky-high bleach-blond poofador was the equal of any 80's metal shredder's.  So is her technique- she's the big-haired axe-azon you'd see copying EVH's shredding on Michael Jackson's "Beat It" tour (and concert vid).  She was also a member of Jeff Beck's band for a while- and you know you can't get that gig if you can't play.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Thunderfoot, excellent post as usual...but with two glaring omissions.
> 
> Any mention of women in rock is incomplete without mentioning Janice Joplin.  Some of her stuff was as heavy as Zep's, and she definitely proved the girls could bring the *noize!*  She had power in her vox unequaled until present day vocalists like Melissa Etheridge (I saw her post-chemo rendition of a JJ song, and she NAILED it), and hard rockers like Doro and the current crop (from bands like Arch Enemy and Straight Line Stitch).
> 
> Also, you forgot to mention Blondie's emergence from the NYC punk/new wave scene- arguably the (comercially) biggest and (artistically) important band fronted by a woman in those genre.  I'd at least put Blondie ahead of the Go-Go's and The Bangles.
> 
> A third omission, though not glaring in any way, is that of semi-obscure guitar wizardess, Jennifer Batten.  You may not know the name, but you've seen her mane- her sky-high bleach-blond poofador was the equal of any 80's metal shredder's.  So is her technique- she's the big-haired axe-azon you'd see copying EVH's shredding on Michael Jackson's "Beat It" tour (and concert vid).  She was also a member of Jeff Beck's band for a while- and you know you can't get that gig if you can't play.



As usual you are there to patch up the cracks in my otherwise perfect exterior....  Now STOP IT ALREADY.. (just kidding)

As I said, there would be omissions, Janice Joplin is indeed a stellar performer, however, I'm unsure that you could really categorize her as...oh who am I kidding, I just plain old forgot about her.  Of course history shows that her star was quite brief and that against the advice of her family and her band, she plunged further and further into harder drug use; a life ending spiral.  She could have been THE woman of rock, however, her career was over before it began and though noteworthy, didn't last long enough to really change the scene, though she did inspire a ton of future boat-rockers (including the Wilson sisters and Joan Jett)  As you mentioned M. Etheridge, her real splash was in Indy Rock/Country hell-raiser set.

Blondie I left out on purpose, though, while their hard rockin' stuff was amazing, Blondie straddled too many genres to really include in the Chapter.  While breaking in with the punk/new wave beat, they rocketed to success in the disco market and while there entrenched themselves in the pop market.  Versatile, yes, talented, it goes without saying, but unfortunately, their 'all over the map' approach ultimately made me leave them out.  Otherwise Crystal Gale, Rosaline Cash & Linda Ronstadt could have made the list and that's just plain weird....

Batten played that solo more times than Eddie did, probably knew it better than Eddie too....  If you start naming individual instrumentalists, I would still be posting my original Chapter.   Shelia E comes screaming to mind...

Peace, love and bacon grease! (three things you won't find in the Middle East)


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## Dannyalcatraz

> Blondie I left out on purpose, though, while their hard rockin' stuff was amazing, Blondie straddled too many genres to really include in the Chapter.




Bah-Humbug!

If you can cite the Bangles & Go-Go's, I can add Blondie!


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## Kurashu

Moulin Rogue said:


> Metal musicians tend to pride themselves on technical skill, so the ability to play monster drum kits and 12-string basses inevitably became part of the whole *bombastic* nature of the genre once the shredfest thing got going in the '80s.




Do you "da bomb fantastic?" Because that's not what bombastic means...

Anyways.

I guess I'm the only one who enjoys being crushed by sludge metal? :antiawesome:

Also, I saw something about metalcore before. My opinion, at least it's not deathcore. lawlz


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## Thunderfoot

Kurashu said:


> Do you "da bomb fantastic?" Because that's not what bombastic means...
> 
> Anyways.
> 
> I guess I'm the only one who enjoys being crushed by sludge metal? :antiawesome:
> 
> Also, I saw something about metalcore before. My opinion, at least it's not deathcore. lawlz




Actually I think he got it right.

Bombastic ~ adj. - Raucous, boisterous, rowdy, over-bearing, flashy.  Sounds like he was right on time.


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## Kurashu

It also means pretenious.


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## Thunderfoot

Kurashu said:


> It also means pretenious.




That too.


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## warlord

Any of you guys heard of Shadowgate?


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## Baron Opal

I'm looking to expand my metal horizons as well as find some new music for work. Let me explain a bit...

I work in a pharmacy. This is a high-energy environment. While the demand for medications and information may wax and wane, it is always "busy". Having some energetic music in the background assists me and my staff support the rest of the hospital well.

This music should be:
Free from profanity.
Free from excessive growling.
Musically interesting (We have a couple musicians).
Energetic.
And, it must _rock_.

Looking over my CD stacks, I have some "commercially common" music. Rush, Yes, AC/DC, Metallica, Vivaldi, Disturbed, Blue Oyster Cult, Kansas, Godsmack, Holst, Blue Man Group, &c. They're pretty much played out. 

I do have an advantage in that the pharmacy and pretty much everyone in it are mine when the sun goes down. I still have to exercise some discretion, we can't have the masses getting their pitchforks and torches to storm the castle. Where the above two groups intersect, however, is free game.

Does anyone have suggestions?


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## Dannyalcatraz

I notice that you have some prog on your list.

Might I suggest:

1) King Crimson, as well as related projects such as Robert Fripp, Fripp/Summers (yes, Andy Summers), California Guitar Trio (completely instrumental guitar music), Tony Geballe, League of Crafty Guitarists.  Of note, the album "The Compleat King Crimson" covers 20 years of the band's production, and it's version of "Sleepless" appears nowhere else that I know of.  The band's post 1980 work is considerably harder edged- the 80's stuff is comparable to the hardest stuff Yes ever did, the stuff from the 90's and later has some real edge, but is still much more prog-rock than metal.

Artists who are/were members of King Crimson or worked with Robert Fripp: Adrian Belew- solo, Bears, Talking Heads and many more; Greg Lake of Emerson, Lake and Palmer; Tony Levin; Bill Bruford; Trey Gunn and others too numerous to mention.

Also of note would be such artists as David Bowie's guitarist, Reeves Gabrels (with or without Bowie/Tin Machine), Brian Eno, David Sylvan, and the great bassist, Jonas Hellborg (he plays pop, jazz, fusion, metal, etc.).

2) Shredders:

Jennifer Batten, Ronnie Montrose, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Alex Skolnick- for your purposes, stick to his jazz/metal fusion stuff as the A.S. Trio or Trans-Siberian Orchestra, as opposed to his work with Savatage or Testament (despite being of the same genre as Metallica, Chuck Billy's vox for Testament are a bit more growly, though not like the modern grunters).

Other shredders of note- Shawn Lane (the fastest guitarist of all time, and tasteful jazz/metal fusion artist, R.I.P.), and Al DiMeola (solo or with Return To Forever or Miles Davis).

3) Off the beaten path:

Rodrigo y Gabriella- a Mexican guitar duo who rip up Metalica on accoustics, among other things.

Seu Jorge- South American guitarist who was a member of Farofa Carioca, but most famously appeared in "The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou" as a crewman who played accoustic Portugese versions of David Bowie tunes.

Kronos Quartet- a chamber music group who play all kinds of modern composers from all over the world.

Buckethead- a shredder's shredder, but more than that, too.  Careful though- his stuff runs from utter shred to trancelike techno, so you might want to listen to samples of a particular album before you buy it. 

Glen Branca- avant garde composer who uses rock instrumentation to do modern metal-classical fusion.  This isn't "symphonic metal," this is modern symphony using things like electric guitars in non-standard tuning, multiple drummers and percussionists, unique instruments created for the piece in question, etc.


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## Kurashu

Baroness, Mastodon, and Pelican are good choices as well.

WHITE WHALE, HOLY GRAIL!

That's like the best comic ever too...


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## Dannyalcatraz

If you like prog, one of the better standard-bearers of the form on the rock side is Dream Theater.  I've also been enjoying Symphony X lately.

On the more Christian side of things, there is the great band out of Houston, King's X.

Side note- I've only seen one video from Pelican, but I liked both its music and the video's humor- its the one for the instrumental where the lead singer shows up just in time for the video to end.  How does the rest of their stuff stack up?  What are the vox like?


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## Thunderfoot

I can't believe that DA forgot to add Tony McAlpine and Yngwie Malmsteen to the list of shredders.  While some of the lyrical stuff might be questionable, their instrumentals are some of the best.

Also, Zebra and Triumph are rockin' and for the most part work friendly.  Unfortunately due to circumstances beyond my control I am unable to scan my catalogue and give you a really good list.  Hopefully you have enough direction to keep you sustained until I can rectify that.



Which leads me in to this apology and situation update.  I am currently back home in Southern Illinois for an undetermined period of time.  The reasons are personal but it doesn't involve sickness or death, so please don't pry.  My activity may be sporadic so please be patient if I don't immediately answer any questions posed in direction.  Until then, keep rockin'


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## Dannyalcatraz

Well, kind of like how you limited your band/genre histories, I limited my list of shredders.

I could have added Chris Impelliteri, Michael Angelo Battio (solo and Nitro), David Chastain...the list goes on.


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## Kurashu

Dannyalcatraz said:


> If you like prog, one of the better standard-bearers of the form on the rock side is Dream Theater.  I've also been enjoying Symphony X lately.
> 
> On the more Christian side of things, there is the great band out of Houston, King's X.
> 
> Side note- I've only seen one video from Pelican, but I liked both its music and the video's humor- its the one for the instrumental where the lead singer shows up just in time for the video to end.  How does the rest of their stuff stack up?  What are the vox like?




They don't have a vocalist. It's all instrumental. As for the rest of the stuff, it's very ambient, rolling, lots of use of cresendos. It's very very good. Think Isis without the preteniousness.

Also: Dream Theater doesn't write, their songs are the result of the band's musical wankery being recorded. =p


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## Dannyalcatraz

Kurashu, if that's your opinion of Dream Theater, don't try Steve Vai.  Or Buckethead.

Another couple of good choices.  If you like Blues-Rock/Rock, you can't really beat Stevie Ray Vaughan.  Right behind him, at least here in Texas, would be Eric Johnson and then Andy Timmons.


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## Kurashu

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Kurashu, if that's your opinion of Dream Theater, don't try Steve Vai.  Or Buckethead.




I have no problem with progressive or techincal or experimental or avant-garde music, it's just when the songs stop being songs and become showing off that I have a problem with.

Compare Cryptopsy to Dream Theater. Or Gorguts to Malsteen.


----------



## Nyaricus

So, figured I'd pop in here and see how all my friendly EN World Metalheads are doing!

Things have been busy for me the past couple of months, my band played it's first show (and we're looking forward to some more coming up!) and got signed to a local record label as well!

It's not all good news though, as they just up and said "you have studio time in October, so be there" and we had to let them know there's no way we'd be ready for October studio time. We're still trying out a bassist who we think will fit in, we don't have the funding necessary to do that sort of thing just yet, and we don't even have enough songs to do a 6 track EP (which they, and we, are planning for - so at least something is agreed upon lol).

It's just stressful, we've successfully pushed them back to a mid-November studio time, but it still doesn't feel like there's going to be enough time to get everything in line for then.

On one hand, I am so excited - this means we are going somewhere with our music and will have something that will last forever. That's cool. But while we hardly want perfection (that's impossible, after all), we want to have our tracks down as well as we possibly can, and have music we really enjoy.

Also, we keep getting this line that they "aren't in this for the money" and so on, and that "they're here to help us out" and yet forcing us into studio with a half-finished product, a maybe bassist and no cash doesn't seem like they are doing either of those things. Blech. I held no expectations the label industry was going to be an entirely positive thing and it's held up those expectations (well, lackthereof) quite well. But, we're doing our best to give ourselves enough room to get what we need first. Our music is important to us.

Anyways, we did some re-recordings of our demos this past weekend and recorded our newest track "Spineless" as well, so check us out! 

www.myspace.com/hoarfrostofficial

cheers,
--N

----------------
Now playing: Nile - In Their Darkened Shrines: I. Hall of Saurian Entombment
via FoxyTunes


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome to the (moderately) big time, Ny!  I was thinking about asking how your band was doing.

Some possible solutions for your bassist problems if time is of the essence:

1) Your guitarist seems to have the chops for it- he might be able to lay down the basslines himself.  With some studio wizardry, it will seem as if you actually have a bassist.  Many bands have done something like this- Malmsteen did, and Prince is notorious for playing _everything _in the studios and just hiring a good band for the road.

2) Again with your axe-man: certain alternative tunings lessen the need for a true bass player.  I personally favor New Standard Tuning (C-G-D-A-E-G)- created by Robert Fripp, the lower 4 strings are tuned like a Cello, giving you a substantial bottom.  The great jazz guitarist Charlie Hunter uses an 8 string guitar (usually with a fanned Novax fretboard), tuned so that the bottom 3 strings are tuned like a standard bass, and the top 5 are tuned like a standard guitar.

3) Hire a session player to fill in for the EP- if your scene has a lot of your style of music, finding a decent session guy shouldn't be difficult.  Again, this happens more time than you know, and sometimes those guys wind up in the band.  Famously, Kip Winger played on a lot of rock/metal albums before forming his own band.  Down here in D/FW, there are several bands that interchange members, especially for short term tours or quick gigs.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Ny, interesting new song, (though the vocals are much more muddy than your previous recordings, but I think that may because your voice is getting stronger).  As usual I'm going to agree with Danny about your axe-man playing bass in the studio or finding a session guy for your recordings.  Contact your label and find out if they have anyone available during that time, they want to help, maybe they have a session bassist (or multi-instrumentalist) in the closet.  

Also, I'm not sure if your label has their own studio or if they are renting you time (either way, it's their money) so here are a few tips to make sure you ARE ready and help your label not go into fits about signing you.  

1) Some of your stuff is loose in parts - make sure the studio has a click track available and use it.  Yes, it sucks to have "click, click, click, CLICK" in your ear, but you are always on tempo...ALWAYS!!!

2) Unless they want you to, DON'T play studio live.  Usually you will sound no better than a garage band and your engineer will have much more work (and you'll be doing more takes).  There are very few bands that do well playing live in the studio, take my advice here, again, unless your label or the engineer wants something else - but make sure that the click track is in place even if they do want you to do live...or more to the point, ESPECIALLY, if they want it that way.

3)  Don't play live for a week prior to going into the studio.  Practice yes, keep a schedule as if you had gigs and require your mates to be there, but live play forces you to take chances with your equipment and more importantly your vocals, that you just don't need.  Also, in your rehearsals, TURN DOWN and focus on the sound.  Loud playing leads to easily missing mistakes that become glaringly obvious in the studio (and producers hate wasted time in the studio - trust me on this  )  And if you feel tired or that your voice is feeling a little raw STOP!!!, The band can continue to play and you can even critique, ut for the love of Pete SHUT UP!!  A singer with no voice makes producers a little nervous. 

4) Have fun, but take it very seriously.  When you play, play for the love of music.  When you hear the play back - DON'T GO WOW WE'RE AWESOME, listen to your performances very intent on finding things that need work.  Your producer/engineer will hopefully be doing the same and offering advice or possible telling you that something doesn't work or this part has to be done differently - don't argue, DO IT.  Listen to both side by side and then make a decision.  Often times your producer will have been a musician him/herself and knows more than you do so even if it is contrary to your vision, it may be a better direction - at least try it.

I really wish you the best of luck and hope that this gives you the confidence boost you need.  You are ready for the studio, even if its not for a full feature length album, but I have this strange feeling that your label wants to see what your potential in the studio is before the completely invest in you.  Remember what I said about projects a few months ago?  

This may be their way of seeing what you're made of and how much your group figures into their company's future.  This is where I tell you the bad stuff, you are playing with THEIR money, regardless of whether or not you are being paid - in music time IS money and the wind of the future blows... literally.   To you, your music is sacred, to them, it's pocketbook fodder - DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY - it's just business.  

Welcome to the wonderful world of music Ny - you are about to get the education of a lifetime.
Thunderfoot
Seat of the Pants Productions
Button Fly Records
Hip-Pocket Studios


----------



## Nyaricus

Thanks guys 

Danny, one of my guitarists Brett ("Hodr" on the MySpace page) is/was a bass player, so if things don't work out with this new guy (we're jamming with him for the 3rd and 4th time this Saturday and Sunday respectively and we are all thinking he will fit in) then he could fill in for session bass.

However, we are of course hoping that we will have a full time bass player, but we'll see how it goes.



Thunderfoot said:


> Ny, interesting new song, (though the vocals are much more muddy than your previous recordings, but I think that may because your voice is getting stronger).



Thanks; in fact everyone has noticed a huge improvement in each others playing since those previous April recordings, but it's nice to hear it from a third party  I'm also using an amplifier as opposed to PA system right now for vocals, so there's that too which might have changed the dynamics a bit.



Thunderfoot said:


> Also, I'm not sure if your label has their own studio or if they are renting you time (either way, it's their money) so here are a few tips to make sure you ARE ready and help your label not go into fits about signing you.



I'm not sure, whether it's their studio or not, but I think they have fairly close ties.



Thunderfoot said:


> 1) Some of your stuff is loose in parts - make sure the studio has a click track available and use it.  Yes, it sucks to have "click, click, click, CLICK" in your ear, but you are always on tempo...ALWAYS!!!



I'm familiar with the idea of a click track, but have no experience using them. I'll talk with my band about it, and go from there.



Thunderfoot said:


> 2) Unless they want you to, DON'T play studio live.  Usually you will sound no better than a garage band and your engineer will have much more work (and you'll be doing more takes).  There are very few bands that do well playing live in the studio, take my advice here, again, unless your label or the engineer wants something else - but make sure that the click track is in place even if they do want you to do live...or more to the point, ESPECIALLY, if they want it that way.



Naw, we definitely wouldn't want to do that anyways - why not just make a live CD then? It's basically the same difference - except you only get one chance to play, haha 



Thunderfoot said:


> 3)  Don't play live for a week prior to going into the studio.  Practice yes, keep a schedule as if you had gigs and require your mates to be there, but live play forces you to take chances with your equipment and more importantly your vocals, that you just don't need.  Also, in your rehearsals, TURN DOWN and focus on the sound.  Loud playing leads to easily missing mistakes that become glaringly obvious in the studio (and producers hate wasted time in the studio - trust me on this  )  And if you feel tired or that your voice is feeling a little raw STOP!!!, The band can continue to play and you can even critique, but for the love of Pete SHUT UP!!  A singer with no voice makes producers a little nervous.



Trust me, I've learned to shut the #&*@ up when my voice is waning, but I have also really extended how long I can scream due to lengthly band jams - not a couple of hours doesn't seem that long. That's a positive thing for live performances, as I've seen a few lead vocalists from my city say "ugh my voice is starting to go" after 2 or 3 songs.

The band has also noticed we've been turning up in our jams, so now we've come back down a bit too. Even this recording is quite a bit louder, especially the drums (which have no mics on them at all)



Thunderfoot said:


> 4) Have fun, but take it very seriously.  When you play, play for the love of music.  When you hear the play back - DON'T GO WOW WE'RE AWESOME, listen to your performances very intent on finding things that need work.  Your producer/engineer will hopefully be doing the same and offering advice or possible telling you that something doesn't work or this part has to be done differently - don't argue, DO IT.  Listen to both side by side and then make a decision.  Often times your producer will have been a musician him/herself and knows more than you do so even if it is contrary to your vision, it may be a better direction - at least try it.



I am my own worst critic (as are much of of our band, the other guitarist Scott is much like me as well), so the solid advice here is already been taken into consideration. I definitely let my guys know when I like a part of a song, and when I dislike it, and when it simply doesn't work.



Thunderfoot said:


> I really wish you the best of luck and hope that this gives you the confidence boost you need.  You are ready for the studio, even if its not for a full feature length album, but I have this strange feeling that your label wants to see what your potential in the studio is before the completely invest in you.  Remember what I said about projects a few months ago?
> 
> This may be their way of seeing what you're made of and how much your group figures into their company's future.  This is where I tell you the bad stuff, you are playing with THEIR money, regardless of whether or not you are being paid - in music time IS money and the wind of the future blows... literally.   To you, your music is sacred, to them, it's pocketbook fodder - DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY - it's just business.
> 
> Welcome to the wonderful world of music Ny - you are about to get the education of a lifetime.
> Thunderfoot
> Seat of the Pants Productions
> Button Fly Records
> Hip-Pocket Studios



Thanks Thunder, and Danny. I'll pass much of this along to my bandmates. As always, much appreciated 


----------------
Now playing: Type O Negative - These Three Things
via FoxyTunes


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Nice advice T-Foot.

I don't recall if I've said this before or not, but not only does practice matter...practice MATTERS.  As in $$$$$.

The press in Austin routinely excoriated local bands for not putting in the time to practice (the Austin Chronicle's music reporter once ran a multi-week treatise on why great bands weren't getting signed), leading to sloppy shows that probably cost them gigs and even signings.  I know of one band in particular that fired a bandmate to get signed because of his sloppy (OK, drunken) live performances and practice ethic.

In addition, if you go into your recording session good & tight, you save yourself time in the studio, and as we ALL know, studio time is dang expensive.  If you're an established artist or independently wealthy, you can spend forever tweeking this part or the other to get your sound "just so"- but at the dawn of your professional career, every $ you don't spend is HUGE.

(I haven't seen your contract, but I'd bet it has a standard "recoupment" clause.  That's the money that the record label gets to take out of gross sales before you ever see a royalty payment, and studio time expenditures are often part of that.)


----------



## reapersaurus

Thunderfoot said:


> Anyone not interested in drum history tune away now, this is long and boring.
> 
> The most notorious example was Luis Cardenas who sported a monster 75 piece kit painted in tiger stripes.  This was the largest single drum kit at the time
> This came after seeing smaller jazz players like Peter Erskine and Billy Cobham integrate electronics into their normal sets but only for the purpose of electronic sounds.
> 
> The killer came in the 90s when grunge killed the large drumset (like it killed so many other things in music).



I just gotta say..........   wow!
What an impressive post!
I just found this thread (I don't get on here often), and the voluminous amount of info, eloquently and succinctly related in this thread is WAY above what people could possibly expect from an internet forum.

I've been drumming since 1980, and followed rock, pop, jazz fuzion, prog rock, and metal and I appreciate your correct inclusion of pioneers and noteworthy efforts from the different musical genres. For instance, Billy Cobham is frequently forgotten, but was a monster of chops back in the 70's.
I'll have to look up Luis Cardenas - that sounds fun, and I'd never heard of that monster set.   

I like your wording of grunge's effects.
I'd have to say the biggest thing it killed was *melody *(musicality, and any motivation to be technically proficient on your instrument). Grunge killed musicianship for the masses, the way punk did for the niches 15 years before.


----------



## Thunderfoot

reapersaurus said:


> I just gotta say..........   wow!
> What an impressive post!
> I just found this thread (I don't get on here often), and the voluminous amount of info, eloquently and succinctly related in this thread is WAY above what people could possibly expect from an internet forum.
> 
> I've been drumming since 1980, and followed rock, pop, jazz fuzion, prog rock, and metal and I appreciate your correct inclusion of pioneers and noteworthy efforts from the different musical genres. For instance, Billy Cobham is frequently forgotten, but was a monster of chops back in the 70's.
> I'll have to look up Luis Cardenas - that sounds fun, and I'd never heard of that monster set.
> 
> I like your wording of grunge's effects.
> I'd have to say the biggest thing it killed was *melody *(musicality, and any motivation to be technically proficient on your instrument). Grunge killed musicianship for the masses, the way punk did for the niches 15 years before.




Thanks for the kind words and welcome to the schoolhouse!!  It's always nice to meet a fellow skins basher.  Something Danny wanted when he started this thread was solid information as relating to history to teach the young uns'; needless to say, I complied.   I have had many varied jobs built around my musical career and doing some professional writing and research fell into that (I was an Intelligence Analyst for a time).  

As for your comments, Luis was a real diamond in the rough - he had this monster kit, but the song of his that hit the airwaves was a remake of Runaway by Bobby Sherman.  Not a real drum heavy song and it was completely a waste (IMO).  Oh well, that's the business for you.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Just thought I'd pass this on:

I recently attended a recording of a live album by my church's music minister, one Curtis Stephen (not to be confused with Christian rocker, Steven Curtis Chapman).  It will probably to be released on his own Razed Records label.  He's one of the few Catholics making a big splash in Christian rock.

I bring all of this up because the guy playing lead guitar on the album is his good buddy, one Mr. Andy Timmons- arguably one of the top 3 guitarists to come out of Texas in the past 3 decades (SRV and Eric Johnson being the other 2).

I don't know when it will be out, but if you like Christian rock at all, you'd probably enjoy this recording.  It was a dam...er...darn good show.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Another Metal Thread:http://www.enworld.org/forum/off-to...n-world-metalheads-introducing-new-bands.html


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Another Metal Thread:http://www.enworld.org/forum/off-to...n-world-metalheads-introducing-new-bands.html




Thanks for the cross post - now we have a place for our discussions of new metal to go along with our discussions of the classic stuff here.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Yet another metal thread- for that hard rock and metal which is neither new nor hugely famous and influential, but still kicks booo-tay.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/off-to...ous/243766-enworld-metalheads-lost-bands.html


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

FYI, Yngwie mentioned that he's got a new album out, featuring vocals from "Ripper" Owens.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Yeppers, shredheads and it kicks some serious hind quarters!
Ripper sounds more like Rob Halford on this album than anything he did with Judas Priest (IMO of course), but those guitars are unmistakably Yngwie.  The sad part is, the lead off song is the weakest offering on the album (lyrically, musically and vocally, though actual production quality is high).  
Looks like he scores with this one and Yngwie once again has a vocalist that can actually challenge him for the spotlight.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ah, but for how long?

Is Iced Earth dead?  Are they looking for a new vocalist?  Is this a rerun of the saga of Faith No More & Mr. Bungle or the journeys of Scott Weiland?

Stay tuned for the next episode of "As the Lead Singer Wanders!"


----------



## lectric

*Spinal Tap*. Without "This is Spinal Tap", there is no metal education. 

Also, Ann & Nancy Wilson are sisters.


----------



## Herschel

Thunderfoot said:


> . In 1972 Chiam Witz and Paul Eisen, formerly of Wiked Lester, recruited Peter Crisscola from an ad he posted in the Rolling Stone and dropped an ad in the New York Village Voice and snagged Paul Frehley to round out their new foursome.




A couple of nits: Chiam Witz had been going by Gene Klein for quite a while by this time (from Israel to the US as a child) and it was Stanley Eisen. Also, as a fellow drummer I'm surprised you made no mention of the original KISS style with lots of hard rock guitar over Peter's Motown-style beats.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Herschel said:


> A couple of nits: Chiam Witz had been going by Gene Klein for quite a while by this time (from Israel to the US as a child) and it was Stanley Eisen. Also, as a fellow drummer I'm surprised you made no mention of the original KISS style with lots of hard rock guitar over Peter's Motown-style beats.




Good catches, though Gene has since reverted to Chiam Witz, hence the reference, but the inclusion is well noted.   Wasn't aware of the Stanley Eisen versus Paul Eisen - I'll have to check my sources...  (That's why I love this thread - I learn too.)  As for the musical stylings, it never really occurred to me to mention it as it kind of presents itself when you listen to them, but the mention is right on.  

As a drummer you'll get a kick out of this, I was watching a KISS concert circa Alive II on VH1C the other day and Peter's solo in "God of Thunder" kicks in.  My wife who has heard me play a million times, but hasn't every really gotten into live albums by any group yells from the other room - "is that your solo on the TV?"   lol - needless to say I can point to him as an influence.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Tell me you took the opportunity to say something like "Yeah, that SOB from KISS ripped me off!"


----------



## Asmo

Speaking of Kiss...Kiss is back with a new album called Sonic Boom - I´ve listened to it about 10times,and as a long time (-75) Kiss fan I´m really happy.This is a great hard rock album,filled with the classic Kiss sound.

Asmo


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

That's good news!

In related news, Ace Frehley's got a new album coming out soon as well!


----------



## Herschel

The Kiss guitarists are a weird subject. The Erics are/were far better drummers than Peter from a technical standpoint but while I liked Bruce, Ace was really good, when straight. I'm not a big fan of Tommy (Black & Blue or in Kiss) and I never liked Vinnie Vincent or Mark St. John's style (although they were good players).


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Other BTWs:

1)  When news of MJ's death started making the rounds, there were videos of him practicing for his tour, including one sequence with a blonde female guitarist.

The images weren't clear- at first I thought it was Jennifer Batten returning to support him on tour...a skilled axe-slinger, to be sure.

(MJ always did work with good guitarists.)

However, it soon became apparent to me that the player was too young to be Jen.

Recently, it was revealed who she is: a young guitar prodigy by the name of Orianthi Panagaris- an Aussie who worships the work and style of Carlos Santana...who respects her talent in return.

The tour was to be her breakout...but she should be releasing a solo album sometime this year- here are some clips.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDhV-xXDWsE[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXf8oJq049w&NR=1[/ame]

Oye como va!

2) It is official, Alice In Chains IS releasing a new album this year, and in an interesting bit of info, it has been revealed that Sir Elton John will be playing piano/keyboards on a track written in honor of Layne Staley.  Apparently, he was somewhat of a fan.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

In other new release news, Sunn O))) has a new one due out this year as well.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Saw Chickenfoot tonight, and they didn't disappoint.  They went through most of the album, plus an unreleased song...then did "Bad Motor Scooter," "My Generation" and a couple of others for giggles.  Sammy even played pedal steel AND lead on "BMS"- you don't get to see Joe Satriani relegated to rhythm guitarist too often (though he did embellish his riffage with signature squeals).

The eye-opener was...well...the opener!

Davy Knowles and Back Door Slam simply rocked.  DK is a young Brit who is definitely following in the footsteps of classic rockers of the 1970s, and his band is up to supporting him at every turn.

Here's a clip of them:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyQFSK9Tw2w&feature=related]YouTube - Davy Knowles & Back Door Slam[/ame]

In other news, the re-formed Wolfmother should be releasing something soon.


----------



## Thunderfoot

*WARNING! WARNING! NEW POST IS IMMINENT!*

That's right shred-heads, the headmaster will be posting a new bit of history...and a review... of Anvil's new movie and latest album.  If you are unfamiliar with who they are or why it matters stay tuned and find out. If you DO know who and why, as always, read and correct as needed.


----------



## Herschel

I missed Chickenfoot while they were in town, unfortunately. I really wanted to go but was already choosing between three events that day. I did see Sammy last summer at Moondance Jam and he was very good. Sebastian Bach......wasn't.

This year I saw Whitesnake (Great stage show and playing but Coverdale's voice is shot), Judas Priest (sounded great but Rob Halford's not as spry as he used to be) and Lita Ford (she lived hard for a while, retreated but still sounds good.)


----------



## Aus_Snow

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I just bought myself a brand new guitar for my birthday...after buying a bunch of new pedals and such all year long.



Ooh, shiny! What is it?


Thought I'd cross-quote and sneak this question here, rather than start a new thread, which might have just ended up one question, one answer. And we can't have that. Not in this forum! 

Hope it's not _too_ wide of the thread subject proper. If so, kill me with an axe, natch.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ha!  Are you an axe-man yourself?

My new baby is a Jon Kammerer Cored Body (in Cherry), strongly resembling one of these he's got on his website.
JKGhtml » Page 10 of 30

This gives me 4 of his guitars now- one of his top purchasers.  (He mentioned an MD in Houston with 7...I must crush him!)  Better than that, I happen to own a couple of his earliest ones: a "butterbean" prototype and a middling-deep Hollowbody that looks kind of like a Gibson SG.
"Butterbean" seen here right below the black Harmony Discovery strat copy.


And funny small world that it is, the day after I bought it, I noticed another one of his axes- a solidbody in a dark, curly walnut- hanging in the darkest corner of my local Guitar Center's Used Gear section...for just $1K!  (The staff is trying to hide it so one of them can get it.)

JKGhtml » Page 12 of 30

Its been hiding there for 4 months, apparently, and has generated some interest, but nobody's pulled the trigger.

If- and its a mighty big if- it doesn't sell to either a customer or a GC employee, it may just find its way into my harem in early 2010.


----------



## Aus_Snow

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Ha!  Are you an axe-man yourself?



Not so much. I can play a bit, but it's not my weapon of choice (that'd be keys, mainly). But I certainly have known a few guitarists.  One of my best friends for many a year, for example.

And. . . nice! Not a make I'm familiar with, but yep, they sure look shiny. I wouldn't be too surprised if they sound pretty sweet as well. Most of what I've heard 'in the flesh' has been kinda mainstream, unfortunately. I mean, not that some of those aren't good, but I always wanted to hear more of these instruments in the mix - small(er) business, labours of love, that kind of thing.

Heh, harem.  Yeah, it goes like that. One guy I know must be starting up his own town, peopled only with electric guitars. . .

Ah, rambling. So yeah, I'm really a bit of a guitar newb , but basically I love music, and musical instruments, so I couldn't resist asking about your latest acquisition. I'll have to quiz a couple of the local friendly axe-wielding psychopaths on 'Jon Kammerer' - if _they've_ even heard of them. Well known the world over?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Nah- he's a luthier who has only been making guitars for about 10 years.  I "discovered" him at the Dallas Guitar show while moseying about.

Almost everything there that I was interested in was WAY out of my price range.  You know you're in trouble when you see a sign that says "Show Special- $50,000!"...and you know that they're not kidding and that that price is indeed a discount!

And then I rounded a corner to see guitars that I'd never seen the likes of before.  Played great, looked great, felt great.  I was sold.

I gotta run- I'll post more about his stuff later!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I'm back!

JK's workshop is located near-ish to Chicago in a little town called Keokuk, Iowa.

He's an engineer who took what he learned and applied it to his own personal redesign of the guitar.  The parabolic body shape he uses is both streamlined and functional- it projects sound out of proportion to guitars of comparative dimensions.

He even recently got a patent on one of his designs, which minimizes feedback when acoustic/electric guitars are plugged in.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I'm back!
> 
> JK's workshop is located near-ish to Chicago in a little town called Keokuk, Iowa.
> 
> He's an engineer who took what he learned and applied it to his own personal redesign of the guitar.  The parabolic body shape he uses is both streamlined and functional- it projects sound out of proportion to guitars of comparative dimensions.
> 
> He even recently got a patent on one of his designs, which minimizes feedback when acoustic/electric guitars are plugged in.




Ahhhh - Paul Reed Smith all over again - I remember when PRS was just that little guitar workshop down the street when I was living in Maryland.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The sad thing about it is that I KNOW there is a guy down here in D/FW who is also a luthier of some reknown- Driskill Guitars- but I've not only never tried out his stuff, I've never even _seen_ it.

And this guy's been on the local news!

Still, part of what attracted me to buying a JK guitar is that I knew for a fact that he supplied parts for other luthiers, like Pederson Guitars (formerly Abyss Guitars)- if you supply parts for guys like that, you know your stuff.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Hey Thunderfoot- I'm here waxing eloquently about luthiers...are there any custom drum kit manufacturers, or is the industry all about the big names?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Hey Thunderfoot- I'm here waxing eloquently about luthiers...are there any custom drum kit manufacturers, or is the industry all about the big names?



Yes there are, but they became THE name in drums, ie Drum Workshop.
A little history lesson, DW originally started a portage and service company for local drummers, keeping their kits, fixing them and transporting,/setting them up for gigs.  Then they started working on hardware.  DW built their reputation on building hardware that drummers would use instead of their endorsed companies.  This gave them the clout to explore custom drum building, which like all of their other exploits they took great time in crafting and are now perhaps the most exquisite drums built - of course you pay for it.

On the other side of the coin, drums and percussion, unlike stringed instruments are a really individual thing, meaning each instrument is unlike any other - for example a precision made drum with perfect bearing edges may be the "best made" drum but a hand carved tree log with zebra butt skin heads made in Kenya by some poor cattle farmer while watching his flocks may have a better sound because of it's character, regardless of the fact that by physical rules, it shouldn't even be able to produce a decent tone.

So, in some ways, that's kind of a loaded question.   In drums, for the learned, it starts out as:
1) infatuation - what is my favorite drummer playing, I have to have it.
2) realization - why is my favorite drummer playing that, I should learn.
3) conceptualization - it might be better if my favorite drummer played x, they are made better.
4) contextualization - my favorite drummer is an idiot, why on earth is he playing those pieces of crap? - I'm playing X...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Thunderfoot said:


> On the other side of the coin, drums and percussion, unlike stringed instruments are a really individual thing, meaning each instrument is unlike any other - for example a precision made drum with perfect bearing edges may be the "best made" drum but a hand carved tree log with zebra butt skin heads made in Kenya by some poor cattle farmer while watching his flocks may have a better sound because of it's character, regardless of the fact that by physical rules, it shouldn't even be able to produce a decent tone.




Actually, the more I learn about stringed instruments, the more I'm of the opinion that they are just as varied as any other kind, including percussion.  Its just that, unlike percussion instruments, we guitarists have a strong tendency to mess around with our sound using tech, so differences tend to disappear in the noise.

It also tends to take a lot more money for the differences to become obvious.

But you ask any of the tone-seeker pros (like Eric Johnson) and they'll tell you they can distinguish between guitars 1 serial-number digit apart in a production run.


> So, in some ways, that's kind of a loaded question.   In drums, for the learned, it starts out as:
> 1) infatuation - what is my favorite drummer playing, I have to have it.
> 2) realization - why is my favorite drummer playing that, I should learn.
> 3) conceptualization - it might be better if my favorite drummer played x, they are made better.
> 4) contextualization - my favorite drummer is an idiot, why on earth is he playing those pieces of crap? - I'm playing X...




That doesn't sound familiar at all!

My first guitar was an Alvarez POS.  After I killed it, I got an Ovation Elite, and that was it for a while.

But when I decided to go full-on electric, I just barely escaped that trap you just described.  Many of my favorite artists play Gibsons, Fenders and Ibanezes...and I can't stand them, for the most part.  But one- Steve Stevens- played a Dean Cadillac during his days with Billy Idol, and I tried one out and was hooked.  I bought a Cadillac..._and_ an EVO Special Select.  The EVO was the high-end entry-level workhorse guitar, the Caddy was my Arabian filly.

Since then, though, I've been buying mostly luthier guitars, mainly the work of the aforementioned Jon Kammerer.

Still love my Caddy though!  Then again, I didn't buy a low-end one.  The one I picked up was one of their top-of-the-line models, so it was a pro-level machine.

My Caddy strongly resembles this one:
http://www.deanguitars.com/usalib/usanov30update/0300649TCC3TGE-A-Ardvarks80.jpg

My EVO is actually the one that is used as my icon here, and looks basically like this one:
Dean Guitars - The Finest Guitars in the World


----------



## Thunderfoot

*ANVIL?   WHO IN THE $#%#%%^^@!! IS ANVIL?*

For those of you who are new to the metal game (meaning within the last 15 years, the name Anvil may sound like a really cool metal act, but probably not one you are familiar with (or may be the group down the street that didn't realize there was already a band with that name).

In the very early 80s two Canadian teenagers Steve "Lipps" Kudlow and Robb Reiner (no not the producer who played 'meathead' on "All in the Family") began a band in their garage and swore to go until they made it; until very recently, they hadn't.  Now in their 50s the band is finally getting the recognition they deserve due to the documentary "Anvil: The Story of Anvil"  

The movie found critical acclaim at Sundance last year and has propelled the group back into the limelight, but I can hear you now, why oh headmaster do they deserve to be in the spotlight, aren't they just another 80s metal act?  and that dear children is why I'm the teacher and you're still learning.

You see, Anvil was the band that the OTHER bands listened to and emulated.  Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer all wanted to be Anvil.  Anvil toured with some of the biggest names in metal during the mid 80s, Whitesnake, Bon Jovi, DIO, etc and yet, they never went anywhere.  Part of that reason had to do with the business, but part of it was due to being WAY ahead of their time.  Go find the first couple of Anvil albums and listen to them.... I'll wait.... not bad but nothing special I hear you say, well, you would be right, if those albums were released now.  You see, if you look closely at the release dates you'll notice they are from 1982 and 1983.  

For some perspective, that was BEFORE Quiet Riot hit the charts with their remake of "Cum on Feel the Noize" by Slade.  While there is no real proof that they invented double bass, they sure as Hell were one of the first to play that fast and record it.  In many ways Anvil was to the Thrash movement of 86' what Black Sabbath and Deep Purple were to the metal acts of the mid 70's.  The harbingers of thing to come.

I won't bore you with the business dealings, but suffice it to say, Anvil WAS signed early on, but due to marketing and distribution problems and the fact there wasn't yet a market for their style of music, they sat on the shelf, and when the time was right, the company had already cut them loose.  So instead of ushering in a new era of fast metal, they watched other bands reap the benefits of their labors.

Which brings us up to the present - (I realize there was a big jump, but if you want to get the really juicy details, watch the film - it's better anyway).  Anvil, in light of the new publicity has release the 13th album - "This is Thirteen".  Aside from a rather boring title (and title track) the music enclosed is pretty good.  For a band that hasn't really been at the forefront for almost 30 years, they haven't lost too much.  Yeah, it's not as polished as say, Metallica or even as "real" as Megadeth, but if you listen with a discerning ear, you can hear the work, the blood, the sweat, the tears - and some more tears, it took to make this album.

I really hope this is the break the guys have been looking for, they deserve it, they've had to watch the era of their music come and go from the sidelines, and even now, with the amount of fame they are garnering, they will never be able to go back and capture what they really wanted, to rule the airwaves as metal gods, but maybe, just maybe, they can finally get onto the iPods of a younger generation....who can say, I was there when justice was served and the grandfathers of thrash were finally given their proper rewards.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

To put it into further perspective, Anvil was so poorly promoted, even a metalhead like myself didn't hear much of their stuff.

Heard OF them, yes.

Saw that they were on tour with some of my favorite bands, yes.

Saw them on Headbangers Ball or on the local Metal radio shows?  Not so much.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> To put it into further perspective, Anvil was so poorly promoted, even a metalhead like myself didn't hear much of their stuff.
> 
> Heard OF them, yes.
> 
> Saw that they were on tour with some of my favorite bands, yes.
> 
> Saw them on Headbangers Ball or on the local Metal radio shows?  Not so much.




Exactly once - in 27 years.... once....


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Dio is in the hospital and the European leg of Black Sabbath's tour has been cancelled.


Black Sabbath News: Ronnie James Dio in hospital


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I'm watching "Full Throttle" about the eponymous bar in Sturgis, SD.

Apparently, Jackyl ("The Lumberjack Song") is still alive and well and headlining in biker bars everywhere...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Dio is in the hospital and the European leg of Black Sabbath's tour has been cancelled.
> 
> 
> Black Sabbath News: Ronnie James Dio in hospital




Apparently, it's the early stages of stomach cancer....  Which pretty much sucks, if you don't catch that one in time, it spreads pretty radically.  Here's hoping for the best.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Damn...I hope they caught it early enough.


----------



## Thunderfoot

In related news (sort of) Peter Criss was on "That Metal Show" this last week and confirmed that he is free of breast cancer (the reason he left KISS a second time).  Also, he has a new "rock" CD (not his melodic reminiscing like his last album) due out next year.  Sounds like he and Ace are getting really buddy buddy, who knows, maybe a double headline tour for the two of them?


----------



## Razorback

Newbie to the board (first post).
Our system here at work crashed this morning so, while they are reindexing everything, had a little free time and read the whole thread.  Good stuff you all.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome to ENWorld!

Rock on!


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## Kneecleaver

Bill Ward released an Album "Along the Way" after rehab, around 1990 iirc.  I had a buddy who had it and I really dug it at the time but haven't heard or been able to find it (reasonably priced).  There are used on amazon starting at $25 but the single new one is like $133.  I really don't like buying used CD's, esp sight unseen.  Does anyone know another avenue I can purchase this through?

Also I haven't heard any of his later releases, how are they?


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## Dannyalcatraz

Wow...I don't know how many, if any, Bill Ward solo albums I own.

And my collection is still boxed up, so I can't check!

As for where to find it, my first stops would be Waterloo Records (Austin), Bill's Records & Tapes (D/FW), Forever Young Records (D/FW) or Apple Records (San Antonio).  I know Waterloo is online, but I don't know about the others.  And if you're a good looking young man, you can get a better deal by showing up at Bill's- he's a gay old goat.  No, I'm not kidding.  If he thinks you look hot, you'll get a better price.  (And no, he doesn't try anything, just looks you up & down.)

(No, I did _NOT _get a better price.)

There is also an international record convention that shows up every year in Austin around March, as I recall.  Lots of obscure stuff there.


----------



## Thunderfoot

News updates - RJ Dio's wife Wendy has stated that he's doing fine and that he has been faithfully following his treatment plan - Heaven and Hell have started booking summer dates in Europe again so, it appears that he's going to be okay, at least in the interim.

Sadly, Kari Leigh Tucker - Ms. Box of Junk from VH1s "That Metal Show" died unexpectedly on 9 Dec 2009 at the age of 27.  Sources say she was found in her apartment in Cleveland, OH.  While no official word of cause of death was released, her family immediately sat on the "respect the family privacy" statement and quickly interred the body at a grave site in her home state of Tennessee; so the details point to "other than" natural causes of which the family were aware.

Also, "former" KISS guitarist Bruce Kulick is releasing a new album - however, guest musicians include, Eric Singer (KISS drummer), Gene Simmons (Duh), and Nick Simmons (Gene's son), so I am not so sure about the "former" statement on the press release.  It may just be a way for Gene/Paul to interfere with Ace's new release, which is a pretty low blow if it has any merit.  (pure professional conjecture on my part)

Think that covers the latest news.  Having to post from the wife's laptop since my box is down, which will limit me writing articles for a while, but since they are pretty sporadic anyway....

Keep banging, thrashing and bashing and always be hard... and heavy!


----------



## Kneecleaver

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Wow...I don't know how many, if any, Bill Ward solo albums I own.
> 
> And my collection is still boxed up, so I can't check!
> 
> As for where to find it, my first stops would be Waterloo Records (Austin), Bill's Records & Tapes (D/FW), Forever Young Records (D/FW) or Apple Records (San Antonio).  I know Waterloo is online, but I don't know about the others.  And if you're a good looking young man, you can get a better deal by showing up at Bill's- he's a gay old goat.  No, I'm not kidding.  If he thinks you look hot, you'll get a better price.  (And no, he doesn't try anything, just looks you up & down.)
> 
> (No, I did _NOT _get a better price.)
> 
> There is also an international record convention that shows up every year in Austin around March, as I recall.  Lots of obscure stuff there.




I'm going to be in the DFW area in a couple of months, I'll have to seek some of these places out.


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## xXElaDriNDrizZztXx

Dannyalcatraz said:


> After reading:
> 
> Black Sabbath - Liked some of the songs, like war pigs, paranoid and the one about the jet fighters
> Deep Purple - Who? (I have heard of them)
> Rush - Who?
> Led Zeppelin - They are great, but I'm not that big of a fan
> ZZ Top - Have 'Tush' but not heard anything else...
> Budgie - Who?
> Queen - Who? Kidding! They are AWESOME.
> Iron Maiden - Also awesome, but not keen on the new album.
> Ynqwie J. Malmsteen - Have one track but I seriously want to get more.
> 
> late in this ( Metalheads! Confess & Brag - EN World D&D / RPG News ) thread, it occurs to me that we older metalheads may not be doing the best job of passing along the history of our preferred music to the youngbloods, especially those who came to the genre alone and without guidance.
> 
> I laid down some basic background info on Black Sab, Rush, Deep Purple, and Budgie in posts #167 & #169 in that thread, but I know that's not an exhaustive list of important foundational bands.
> 
> So, Old-School Metalheads, lay down the knowlege for your younger bretheren- who should every metalhead know and respect for their contributions to the genre, if not actually enjoy, and some of their key tunes.



none of those are metal but Sabbath and Maiden. Grow up.

If you're gonna pass on teh br00tal m3t4lz try doing stuff like... Hair Metal and stuff otherwise you're shooting yourself in the foot because lots of bands don't qualify as metal.

Also, thread needs more JETHRO TULL


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## Dannyalcatraz

I think I've grown enough, thank you very much.  You might want to take your own advice, though.

I didn't say most of those bands were metal.  Most of them are hard rock.

However, if you know your metal history, the first band to whom the term "heavy metal" was applied was Steppenwolf, followed soon after by Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin.

Any definition of heavy metal that excludes them is to ignore the history of the genre, and the history of metal- and to a certain extent, hard rock- is what this thread is about.  While Black Sabbath carried the bulk of the burden of defining heavy metal, the contributions Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple made to the nascent genre is undeniable.

FWIW, early Rush is no less heavy than any of those, but over time, they morphed into a prog-(hard)rock band.  And had they not done what _they _did, its unlikely that prog would have gained as much of a foothold in metal as it has.

So, while many of the bands mentioned in this thread may not be heavy enough to satisfy you, the fact remains: all are either metal, key to certain elements of the genre, or inspired by metal.  And knowing those details makes you a scholar of the genre, and better able to understand its many nuances.


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## Kneecleaver

Dannyalcatraz said:


> FWIW, early Rush is no less heavy than any of those, but over time, they morphed into a prog-(hard)rock band.  And had they not done what _they _did, its unlikely that prog would have gained as much of a foothold in metal as it has.
> 
> So, while many of the bands mentioned in this thread may not be heavy enough to satisfy you, the fact remains: all are either metal, key to certain elements of the genre, or inspired by metal.  And knowing those details makes you a scholar of the genre, and better able to understand its many nuances.




Well said.  You can not listen to, say 2112, and not classify it as metal.  I had the great fortune not so many years ago to see the trio do it, in it's entirety, live in Dallas at the Starplex/Smirnov or whatever they call it nowadays.  I've seen Rush three times and they never disappoint me.  The first time Suicidal Tendancies opened for them in Tulsa, the last two were in Dallas and they had no opening act, just damn near 3 hours of Rush.

Their transition into prog is really what set them apart from the pack.  2112, in my mind, is the definitve Rush album.  It is prog (in structure, at least) and heavy metal.  The two are by no  means mutually exclusive.  Starting with Permanent waves the band went Prog and left metal, for the most part, behind.

Anyone saying Deep Purple isn't metal, imnsho, is an idiot.  Period.

Malmsteen is metal, in his own way.  He was speed metal before there was speed metal, the noodle fingered bastard.

Queen had it's metal moments, but mostly they were Opera rock, much the same as Styx.  Love both bands, but I would call neither metal.  _But, wait, if you like do an entire soundtrack for Highlander don't you have to be metal?_ umm no.  I hate Christopher Lambert.  I'm glad there's only one of him.  I don't hate the first Highlander though.

ZZTop is more blues rock than anything else.  No where close to being metal.

Speaking of blues rock, one that definitely bleeds over into Metal is AC/DC.  I turned my nose up at them for years simply because I preferred the more 'intellectual' stuff (Maiden and such).  I out grew my elitism/idealism, as everyone does, and am quite fond of them now.

Ok, I will now admit my one metal guilty pleasure: Manowar.  Cheesy to the extreme, but damn.  I don't think there are any songs that have been played more in my D&D campaigns than Black Wind, Fire & Steel and Defender. _I am an outcast on the path of no return, punisher and swordsman, I was born to burn!_

Budgie-  The only song I can recall is "Crash Course in Brain Surgery".

While I'm here and typing, I feel the need to say Jethro Tull is definitely not Metal.  Seriously!  Elandrin, you were kidding, right?  I'm not saying I don't like me some Tull, but they are definitely not Metal.

Don't know if they have been mentioned, I haven't been through the whole thread, but Metal Church brings back some memories.

Speaking of memories, and some of my earlier days of gaming, let's not forget Cirith Ungol.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I think he was alluding to Tull's victory over Metallica as the Grammy's first winner of the "Best Metal Album" of the year to mock me.


----------



## Kneecleaver

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I think he was alluding to Tull's victory over Metallica as the Grammy's first winner of the "Best Metal Album" of the year to mock me.




Doh! I should have caught that.  I was a bit snookered last night when I posted.  

That happened my first year in College iirc.  In retrospect that just reinforced the f*&^ the establishment attitude that's pretty much always been present.  The irony of it is that Metallica has now become the establishment and is much worse for it, imo.

Didn't Metallica release a different cover for And Justice for All that had "Grammy Losers" or something like that on it?


----------



## Mark Chance

Kneecleaver said:


> Speaking of blues rock, one that definitely bleeds over into Metal is AC/DC.




Black Sabbath as well (and, perhaps, even moreso).

Props I feel also need to go to some pioneers who tend to defy easy classification but still hit some Metal riffs. For me, chief among these are Iggy Pop and Lou Reed.

Iron Butterfly fits in the spectrum somewhere as well. Definitely some heavy elements (hence the "Iron") mixed with blues and psychedelia.


----------



## Janx

Manowar is one of my favorite metal bands.  Kings of metal being my most listened to album from them.  Not as happy with the changes after Triumph of Steel, though that album was good.

I suspect that when Danny cited Queen or ZZ Top, much as he did Deep Purple, he was pointing out their contribution to metal as a whole.  I have no doubt these bands influenced the early metal bands, who in turn influenced others.

While I have jokingly said "hardly any good music came out of the 70's" the truth is, all the influences for the metal I liked from the 80's came from the 70's.  BTW, my snarky point about the 70s was the abomination known as disco and the BeeGees.  yuck!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Well, while I do think those bands had an influence on hard rock and metal...and had influences from those genres, remember that they were originally brought up in a quote from someone else.

The youngster was a bit mystified as to whom certain bands- bands of EPIC importance to rock and roll in general- were, which prompted me to quote his entire little set of queries.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Hey Shredheads!  The headmaster is back (for a moment anyway as my main computer is down and I have to use this pukey netbook (which I actually like BTW)).

To settle some arguments, metal school was founded by Danny and more or less taken over by me due to my incredible lack of a life dabbling in the professional music scene.  Every band listed by Danny is instrumental in the establishment of metal.  While many people feel that hair bands, hair metal, or hairspray rock, is not true metal, please remember that without their mainstream exposure, the fringe bands would still be in a garage because a flood of heavy metal and hard rock acts were signed to major labels in the 80s due to this exposure, with labels hoping to grab the next big thing.

Slayer, Metallica, Megadeath and Anthrax (they holy four of Thrash) would still be playing skate parks if not for record execs looking for the next wave in metal. And without them Sepultura, Hatebreed, Death, and such would never have been looked at either.  Hard Rock (thank you 70's) pushed rock n' roll out of bubble gum, bobby socks and folky hippie trash.  So bands like Kansas, Journey, Boston, Fastway, April Wine and Ted Nugent, are all VERY much an integral part of the lineage of metal.  

As for Rush, anymore dissension and I'll call down the gods of metal (I have them on speed dial) to burn you to a cinder.  More bands that fly the metal flag cite them as early inspiration than almost any other band other than KISS (which they opened up for on their first American tour BTW)

There is a documentary called "Heavy: The story of Metal" that is a must see if you are truly interested in an accurate and nearly exhaustive history of metal from its humble beginnings to its world wide movement today.  More importantly we need to stand as a united front as the vocal minority that we are.  You don't have to like everything (I personally don't like Nordic Black metal), but I know that it has its place and respect it for what it is.  Regardless of how much you may think Poison sucks (I know I do) I appreciate that they brought hundreds of thousands of screaming fans to shows in the 80s, which exposed them to all sorts of opening acts which were usually more heavy than they were.  (Def Leppard is another group that usually has some really good up and coming talent open for them.)  

Basically, learn, that's what this forum is for.  Just like in school, you have your favorite subjects, I'm fine with that, but don't turn your nose up at anything, because it may have merit, if not on a listening level, if you are a musician, then a performance level.  Paganini, Bach and Beethoven aren't metal, but Malmsteen cites them as an influences and he definitely is... think about it.

Thrash on my little metal heads, I shall be lurking...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Well, as most of you know by now, Ronnie James Dio has passed away due to complications with his stomach cancer.  He was 67.  I think this is a wake up call for most of us who have been around heavy metal for more than the last ten years.  Let's face it folks, our heroes are aging and death is inevitable.  

Many people will be blaring Dio, Black Sabbath, Rainbow and Heaven and Hell in tribute, and I understand this, however, we need to remember his life in other ways too.  I have been a volunteer for Relay for Life which is the annual American Cancer Society fund raising activity.  I am going to continue my support for this activity as a living tribute, I suggest that each headbanger out there do something other than just remember the music, make a difference.  You don't have to support the ACS, heck a lot of you are from England, Germany, Canada and other world wide locations, but give it some thought and help to stop these dreaded diseases, before we lose them all.

Okay, soapbox stashed, long live Metal.


----------



## El Mahdi

deleted


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Thought the student body might want to get a taste of Animals As Leaders:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=789rbPEehCM&feature=related]YouTube - Animals As Leaders - "Modern Meat"[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc8tMHo_Dss&feature=related]YouTube - Animals As Leaders - "CAFO"[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ceV82mKUhg&NR=1]YouTube - Animals As Leaders - "Thoroughly At Home"[/ame]


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Thought the student body might want to get a taste of Animals As Leaders:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=789rbPEehCM&feature=related]YouTube - Animals As Leaders - "Modern Meat"[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc8tMHo_Dss&feature=related]YouTube - Animals As Leaders - "CAFO"[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ceV82mKUhg&NR=1]YouTube - Animals As Leaders - "Thoroughly At Home"[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AG_-d9D-4I&feature=related]YouTube - Animals As Leaders - "The Price of Everything and the Value of Nothing"[/ame]


----------



## Herschel

Dio was great. He was the size of Tom Cruise with a voice like thunder. There's a lot of those guys getting up there in age but many of them are still spry enough to tour.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Interesting news: The original lead singer for Majesty and Dream Theater has a new band, Winterspell...supposedly a _blackened death metal band_, if you can believe it.

Winterspell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ggroy

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Interesting news: The original lead singer for Majesty and Dream Theater has a new band, Winterspell...supposedly a _blackened death metal band_, if you can believe it.
> 
> Winterspell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Winterspell sounds a bit like Mercyful Fate and Savatage, with a singer that sounds like Goeff Tate of Queensryche.  Not really like a blackened death metal band.


----------



## Starman

Dannyalcatraz said:


> _blackened death metal band_[/url




Where does that fall on the spectrum of evil badness? I mean is this Double Hell bad or maybe just Shadow Shadow bo Badow bad?


----------



## BrokeAndDrive




----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Starman said:


> Where does that fall on the spectrum of evil badness? I mean is this Double Hell bad or maybe just Shadow Shadow bo Badow bad?




Damn if I know.  I mean, old blackened death metal is supposed to have generally anti-Christian themes, generally speaking.  But newer bands have been going in for more traditional metal themes, and the genre is being redefined (a bit) without consideration for lyrics.



BrokeAndDrive said:


> _You hear a plane flying overhead. As you look up, it's already reached the horizon, but you spot someone dropping in via parachute..._



_

Er....whut?_


----------



## Starman

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Damn if I know.  I mean, old blackened death metal is supposed to have generally anti-Christian themes, generally speaking.  But newer bands have been going in for more traditional metal themes, and the genre is being redefined (a bit) without consideration for lyrics.




Oh, I wasn't being serious. I love me some metal, but it does crack me up from time to time. 

"This is more hardcore than regular heavy metal. We need to call it something else."

"What about death metal?"

"Death metal? I love it! Woo! Raise the horns!"

"What about this style? It's even _more_ hardcore than death metal."

"Hmmm...deathier metal? Double death metal? Death to your mom metal? Super death metal?"

"How about _blackened_ death metal?"

"Dude. That's perfect. Blackened death metal. Maybe we should add an umlaut...bläckened death metal..."


----------



## ggroy

Starman said:


> "What about this style? It's even _more_ hardcore than death metal."
> 
> "Hmmm...deathier metal? Double death metal? Death to your mom metal? Super death metal?"




Noise?  Grindcore?


----------



## Thunderfoot

How about...LOUD! (Exclamation Point must be included).


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ater a long time away:

1) Kyuss is back!

The lineup is changed, and Josh Homme is not a part of it...but Oliveri is.

2) Joey Beladonna is back in Anthrax!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Yes, Belladonna is in fact back and he sounds AAAAHHHH - wait for it - MAZING!.   The album is pretty much front to back attack.

In other news, Mike Portnoy, the founder and former drummer for Dream Theater and John Sykes, guitarist extraordinaire on the two best Whitesnake albums "Slide It In" and "87 (or Whitesnake in the US)" are currently working together in a new project.  Will have more on this as information trickles out.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Speaking of projects:

Tony Iommi and Ian Gillen have a band called WhoCares, which will be doing a recording to raise money for a charitable relief in Armenia.  Other participants in WhoCares: Jon Lord, Nico McBrain, Jason Newstead and Mikko "Linde" Lindström.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Yes, Belladonna is in fact back and he sounds AAAAHHHH - wait for it - MAZING!. The album is pretty much front to back attack.




I've been listening to it in heavy rotation and think the album stands up to Joey's previous work with the band, stylistically and qualitatively.

But "In the End" is a standout.  They say it's a tribute to Dimebag & Dio, but to me, it sounds like Anthrax doing a cover of Dio-era Sab.  That chug, the lyrics- Joey even sounds like he's channeling RJD in the way he's attacking, sustaining & releasing the notes.  (I could almost hear RJD singing along...)

Then there's Charlie's thumping bass drum.  It took me a while to figure out what it was that was getting me about it: it's reminiscent of portions of (Ian Gillen-era) Sabbath's "Disturbing The Priest"- one of my all-time favorite Sab tunes.


----------



## Janx

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I've been listening to it in heavy rotation and think the album stands up to Joey's previous work with the band, stylistically and qualitatively.
> 
> But "In the End" is a standout.  They say it's a tribute to Dimebag & Dio, but to me, it sounds like Anthrax doing a cover of Dio-era Sab.  That chug, the lyrics- Joey even sounds like he's channeling RJD in the way he's attacking, sustaining & releasing the notes.  (I could almost hear RJD singing along...)
> 
> Then there's Charlie's thumping bass drum.  It took me a while to figure out what it was that was getting me about it: it's reminiscent of portions of (Ian Gillen-era) Sabbath's "Disturbing The Priest"- one of my all-time favorite Sab tunes.




Anthrax has finally released their album?  I'm not sure if I gave up on them or not.  Didn't like how they burned through singers, including hosing John Bush again.

I liked the John Bush era better than their older stuff.  I guess Joey wore out on me.


----------



## Asmo

It´s Ian Gillan, not Gillen.


Asmo


----------



## Thunderfoot

Janx said:


> Anthrax has finally released their album?  I'm not sure if I gave up on them or not.  Didn't like how they burned through singers, including hosing John Bush again.
> 
> I liked the John Bush era better than their older stuff.  I guess Joey wore out on me.



That's always been the way with Anthrax - Bush or Belladonna.  
Usually it's by when you find out about them, I grew up with Joey as the front man, so you can guess which way my vote goes.  But I get your attitude, what is interesting about the whole thing was Scott Ian's take.  He has always been very vocal about his support of John and his vocal style, but he said in a recent interview that he was amazed at the sounds and how right it felt to have Joey back.  He went on to say, "Even I get it wrong occasionally."



			
				Asmo said:
			
		

> It´s Ian Gillan, not Gillen.



You sir, are correct.  



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Then there's Charlie's thumping bass drum. It took me a while to figure out what it was that was getting me about it: it's reminiscent of portions of (Ian Gillen-era) Sabbath's "Disturbing The Priest"- one of my all-time favorite Sab tunes.



And that sound you hear from the kick is the sound of playing wide open vice heavily dampened.  Several drummers did it during the 60s: Bonham, Baker, Rich, Kruppa....  The difference though was the engineer recording them.  The bass drum more than any other drum suffers or benefits from microphone placement in relation to the batter and resonant heads (assuming there is a later).


----------



## Janx

Thunderfoot said:


> That's always been the way with Anthrax - Bush or Belladonna.
> Usually it's by when you find out about them, I grew up with Joey as the front man, so you can guess which way my vote goes.  But I get your attitude, what is interesting about the whole thing was Scott Ian's take.  He has always been very vocal about his support of John and his vocal style, but he said in a recent interview that he was amazed at the sounds and how right it felt to have Joey back.  He went on to say, "Even I get it wrong occasionally."




I grew up in the 80's with Joey as the front man as well.  On my first summer back from college, my buddy Steve came over and pops in the newest Anthrax and it starts with "This is a journey into sound."

The Sound of White Noise was a perfect album.  Potter's Field and Only were perfect songs.  It was like Anthrax was reinvented itself.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Re: frontmen

I actually liked both Joey and John, for different reasons.

Re: the drum

I know the sound Charlie used didn't originate with Bill Ward, but the way Charlie (and the engineers) put the bass drums together in that song- not just tone but pace as well- echoes so strongly with that particular Sab song.  For me, anyway.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Janx said:


> <SNIP>  It was like Anthrax was reinvented itself.



Oh, you are so right there.  One of the reasons Scott liked John so much was that where Joey "Sang like a bird", John "Roared like a lion" (That Metal Show Season 5 - Throw down /Joey Belladonna vs John Bush/).  The whole John Bush era was a completely different band, much like Deep Purple, Rainbow and Black Sabbath - there is one sound and then there is something completely different.

I have my favorites, for sure, but I wouldn't turn off either of them.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Well, I Said I would drop a report if anything new came up with the Sykes/Portnoy project. 

Here is what is known for fact:
The group is a power trio
The music is over the top and very challenging technically for all involved
They are currently in the studio laying tracks and doing post production work

What is still unknown:
The Bassist - several names have been thrown around - 
Dug Pinnik of King's X (but it has been confirmed he ISN'T the bass player) This rumor started when the three were tinkering around backstage at a taping of TMS (see below)
Tony Franklin - IF this is the case you have 2/3 or Blue Murder.  In a recent TMS interview Carmine Appice, the drummer for BM said that he and Sykes had worked on some material for a new BM album and tour, so this has a lot of legs.
Billy Sheehan - The grand master of bass (David Lee Roth, Mr Big and others) - One reason this one is up and running is that the three of them seems to all be popping up in the same area around the same time.  While there are no confirmed sightings of all of them together (except at a TMS taping where Mike and John make their announcement and Billy was the guest guitarist for the previous two episodes /they film four at a time/)

What makes the Billy Sheehan story so strong is that TMS is taped in L.A. and the album in question is being recorded in N.Y.C.  While all three at a taping of TMS could easily be seen as a coincidence, they were later spotted in N.Y.C. at roughly the same time, though in different locations, and then again in Orlando?? (New Orleans maybe, somewhere down south) again at the same time but in different locations.

Whoever it is, one thing is for sure;  it will be uber heavy progressive.  Maybe not straight prog metal, but heavy prog rock at least.


----------



## ggroy

Thunderfoot said:


> Oh, you are so right there.  One of the reasons Scott liked John so much was that where Joey "Sang like a bird", John "Roared like a lion" (That Metal Show Season 5 - Throw down /Joey Belladonna vs John Bush/).  The whole John Bush era was a completely different band, much like Deep Purple, Rainbow and Black Sabbath - there is one sound and then there is something completely different.




I thought the John Bush era of Anthrax sounded like a heavier version of Armored Saint with better songwriting.

I only really liked the first Armored Saint record "March of the Saint", and thought "Delirious Nomad" and "Raising Fear" were kinda weak in the songwriting department.  I didn't really follow them much afterward.

EDIT:  Back when it was first released, I use to listen to side 1 of the "March of the Saint" record over and over again.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

If you also like metal's predecessor, hard rock- aka classic rock these days- you should check out Rival Sons.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfy0smIW4vk&feature=youtube_gdata_player]Rival Sons - Pressure And Time - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And, in a _true _blast from the past, it seems Fastway has released an album this year...alas, without Dave King, who seems to be content with Flogging Molly.


----------



## Vascant

Dannyalcatraz said:


> If you also like metal's predecessor, hard rock- aka classic rock these days- you should check out Rival Sons.




Oddly enough listening to that made me want to hear some old The Cult


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

You're not the only one who picked up on a Cult-ish vibe.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And, in a _true _blast from the past, it seems Fastway has released an album this year...alas, without Dave King, who seems to be content with Flogging Molly.




WHHHAAAAAA????

Okay, when's the April Wine reunion?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> If you also like metal's predecessor, hard rock- aka classic rock these days- you should check out Rival Sons.




Sounds like The Cult, Thunder, and The White Stripes had an unholy love affair and this is the bastard love child...  Not bad, but I can't tell if the production of the music is bad or this is just another "tin ear" rip put up on YouTube by someone who doesn't understand you NEVER EVER EVER tape pre-recorded music with the EQ on....


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I've seen the video elsewhere, and it sounded better.

The thing that surprised me is that supposedly the vocalist is completely new to the genre- it's his first rock band, and he didn't even listen to this style as a kid.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Thunderfoot said:


> WHHHAAAAAA????
> 
> Okay, when's the April Wine reunion?




You'll know its on if you see Kay...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I've seen the video elsewhere, and it sounded better.
> 
> The thing that surprised me is that supposedly the vocalist is completely new to the genre- it's his first rock band, and he didn't even listen to this style as a kid.



Not so surprised here.  I played with a band on the east coast, I was from a metal/hard rock background, the bassist was from a more standard rock background (he to college in the 70s, so there wasn't the emphasis on categorization there is now, most of what he did would be considered classic rock and oldies), the leas guitarist was from a progressive/jazz/fusion background, the keyboard player was classically trained and didn't even hear "modern" music until she was well into her teenage years, our lead singer.... he was a hip-hop dancer.

On the face of things, this group should have imploded.  What we got was a solid progressive rock quintet that could play everything from 50s rock to 90s Techno, and did on a couple of occasions (for instance on one Christmas Party we played we started with the 50s (Elvis) and rolled all the way up to 1999 (Prince).  Splitting the set into 50s/60s/70s break 80s/90s (and then ending with 1999...can you guess what year it was when we played that gig?)

So, no, it doesn't surprise me, but I am impressed and THAT is much much harder to do.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> You'll know its on if you see Kay...



Watch it, you want want to crash and burn there Danny.  

Seriously though, just found out, they've been touring Canada almost non-stop for the last two years, interspersed with a couple European and US dates.  Maybe I'll get to see them play live soon.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Thunderfoot said:


> Watch it, you want want to crash and burn there Danny.




What, what, what?  Surely you remember their hit song:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjmxUSsL-qk&feature=youtube_gdata_player]April Wine - If You See Kay (1982 video single) - YouTube[/ame]



(Inspired, BTW, by the writings of James Joyce.)


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> What, what, what?  Surely you remember their hit song:
> <SNIP>



Oh course I do, but evidently you forgot about this one:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywR6ahivw9s"]Crash & Burn[/ame]
That, by the way, was my nickname before Thunderfoot. 
I showed up for the driving portion of Driver's Ed sick as a dog and told the two girls with me, "Unless you want to Crash & Burn, I hope you have your white slips, cause I'm in no condition to drive."  Of course, one of them didn't and I came very close to killing the three of us and the instructor... Good thing they have that remote brake.  After that, the one that had her slip started calling me 'Crash & Burn' and the rest is as they say, history.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ha!

Actually, I didn't forget that one- I'd never heard it before!  April Wine was slays a peripheral band for me, so I only know a couple of their tunes.  And that wasn't one of them.  Good one, though!


----------



## Thunderfoot

I suggest you go back and re-visit some of their stuff.  "Sign of the Gypsy Queen" was probably the biggest hit when I was growing up, but all of their stuff was really good.  They are always fluctuating between 1 and 2 on my most underrated/ignored bands list, sharing that honor with Zebra.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

"Sign of the Gypsy Queen" rings a pleasant bell...

And I _revere_ Zebra!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Then you, my friend, "get it".  Though I never really doubted you did. 
And though it hasn't got as much press as some their first three, Zebra's IV album is amazing, especially the atheistic "Why?", "Angels Calling" and "Waiting to Die".  Randy Jackson really went through some crap on the road over the last few years and with the band's native home of New Orleans getting crushed by hurricane Katrina, he had a lot on his mind and heart.

Other songs I can't get out of my head when I listen to it are the opener "Arabian Nights" - probably the heaviest song they've ever done, and it's still catchy; "Free" - the first song the entire band has written as a unit in years; and "So I Dance" - a throwback song that is out of place with the rest of the music on the album, but just had to be included because its so darn nifty - and yes, I mean nifty!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And damn it..."Who's behind the door?" is just freakin' catchy and awesome and...and...and...I know its one of their more radio friendly tunes, but I just love to sing along to that one.

Sadly, I've not yet gotten my hands on _IV_- there's just so much music I'm trying to buy- not to mention other hobbies- that inevitably stuff slips by me.  Especially things that were done by bands that haven't released anything in a while- like Budgie and Zebra- or super-prolific, semi-obscure (as in, not mainstream) artists like Buckethead, Charlie Hunter, Jonas Hellborg and Bill Laswell.

I mean, tonight, I bought new ones from Evanescence, Lenny Kravitz, Mastodon, Superheavy and a muiti-artist tribute to ZZTop...all at Target.

I'm currently awaiting a shipment from Amazon with Hypnotic Brass Ensemble, Soil & Pimp Sessions, Alex Skolnick's jazz trio, Chickenfoot, and Rival Sons.  Of those, only Chickenfoot is readily available.  And because of the size of the order (and expenditures on other hobbies), I'm going to have to wait to track down some of my other "Import Only" albums like Buckethead's _Funnel Web_ and damn near anything by Jonas Hellborg these days.  Or the discography of Painkiller...or Science Faxtion.

You want the economy stimulated?  Give me a few million and I'll do it personally!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And damn it..."Who's behind the door?" is just freakin' catchy and awesome and...and...and...I know its one of their more radio friendly tunes, but I just love to sing along to that one.
> 
> Sadly, I've not yet gotten my hands on _IV_- there's just so much music I'm trying to buy- not to mention other hobbies- that inevitably stuff slips by me.  Especially things that were done by bands that haven't released anything in a while- like Budgie and Zebra- or super-prolific, semi-obscure (as in, not mainstream) artists like Buckethead, Charlie Hunter, Jonas Hellborg and Bill Laswell.
> 
> I mean, tonight, I bought new ones from Evanescence, Lenny Kravitz, Mastodon, Superheavy and a muiti-artist tribute to ZZTop...all at Target.
> 
> I'm currently awaiting a shipment from Amazon with Hypnotic Brass Ensemble, Soil & Pimp Sessions, Alex Skolnick's jazz trio, Chickenfoot, and Rival Sons.  Of those, only Chickenfoot is readily available.  And because of the size of the order (and expenditures on other hobbies), I'm going to have to wait to track down some of my other "Import Only" albums like Buckethead's _Funnel Web_ and damn near anything by Jonas Hellborg these days.  Or the discography of Painkiller...or Science Faxtion.
> 
> You want the economy stimulated?  Give me a few million and I'll do it personally!



I know, right?  Between music to buy and the equipment to make it with I could spend $1 mil in about 7 days.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Thunderfoot said:


> I know, right?  Between music to buy and the equipment to make it with I could spend $1 mil in about 7 days.




Yeah- my G.A.S. list could bankrupt whole banana republics...and that's without buying vintage!


----------



## ggroy

These days I don't really buy a lot of music stuff anymore, largely due to a loss of interest over the years.

The last time I use to spend a lot of money on music, was before I started playing D&D again.  (I took a 15+ year hiatus from rpg games altogether, where I completely missed 2E AD&D and 3E D&D.  I came back to rpg games shortly after 3.5E was released).  By then, I more or less replaced most of my record collection with the cd versions.

I stopped buying new musical equipment altogether around 20 years ago.  I have no interest anymore in playing in a band, nor writing my own new music.  Sometimes I'll still play the guitar when I'm bored.  Mostly silly guitar soloing stuff and sometimes transcribing songs.  (A few weeks ago I was attempting to transcribe the keyboard parts from Journey's "Separate Ways" on the guitar).


Over the last year or so, I was spending a lot of cash on dvds of movies and tv shows I use to watch when I was younger.  A lot of it was mostly scavenging through the bargain bins at places like Wal-Mart, Best Buy, grocery stores, etc ...  It seems like a lot of stuff that was released several years ago, are now being dumped into the bargain bins for $5 (or less) per dvd or $15-$20 (or less) per tv show dvd set.  Though at this point, there isn't a whole lot left anymore which interests me (along with cutbacks at work which has significantly curtailed my spending).  Lately I was watching dvd sets of tv shows like Magnum PI, The A-Team, MacGyver, The Incredible Hulk, Blue Thunder, Miami Vice, etc ...


I've slowly come to the realization that nostalgia for stuff from one's youth, isn't quite what it's made out to be.  But I suppose going through an extended mid-life crisis, it's easy to fall into a pattern of searching for nostalgic feelings from one's youth.


----------



## Thunderfoot

The problem is, music was my profession... and frankly still should be.  I moved back home because of some personal issues, but in the process gave up my career.  If I had a bankroll, I'd do it from here.  The problem with the area I live in is that if it isn't Christian or Country it isn't considered worth backing with bank money.  So most local groups go through a collective of small, personal recording studios, leaving the "next big thing" way out of touch.

At one time the area around Carbondale was a hot bed of up and coming talent for all types of music, now it's bluegrass, CCM and C&W with a smattering of new country.  All of those acts use this area for demos and then launch to either Nashville or Branson (we're about half-way between the two.)

The closest area for anything out side of this is St. Louis (which has all but given up on recorded rock in their studios and gone strictly to hip-hop/R&B/mass media work) or Chicago which is about 7 hours due North and not very receptive to anything from down in "Little Egypt."


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Yeeoutch!

Around D/FW, we support all kinds of music...but not well.  The entire live music scene here is a giant rollercoaster.  Although metal is huge here, many of he metal clubs I frequented in the 1980s-90s are now strip clubs.  Many of the venues I visited in the past 5 years have changed hands- and styles- at least once.

(Part of that is- except for boobies- audiences around here are kind of on the fickle side...even the sports fans.)

In contrast, most of my favorite hangouts in Austin in the 1990s are still going strong.


----------



## ggroy

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Yeeoutch!
> 
> Around D/FW, we support all kinds of music...but not well.  The entire live music scene here is a giant rollercoaster.  Although metal is huge here, many of he metal clubs I frequented in the 1980s-90s are now strip clubs.  Many of the venues I visited in the past 5 years have changed hands- and styles- at least once.
> 
> (Part of that is- except for boobies- audiences around here are kind of on the fickle side...even the sports fans.)
> 
> In contrast, most of my favorite hangouts in Austin in the 1990s are still going strong.




Same here.  The type of metal/punk rock venues I use to frequent 20+ years ago, it turns out many of them don't exist anymore.

These days I don't really go to nightclubs or concerts anymore.  It doesn't really interest me much anymore.

The times I had to do work related traveling, sometimes I would check out the places I use to frequent in towns I use to live in.  Over the years, I found out many of the nightclubs, book stores, cafes, record stores, restaurants, arcades, etc ... I use to frequent, no longer exist anymore.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

"What a drag it is, getting old." - The Rolling Stones


----------



## ggroy

Dannyalcatraz said:


> "What a drag it is, getting old." - The Rolling Stones




(Also)

"The failure of nostalgia:   one can never go back home again".

Both figuratively and (sometimes) literally.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And now...

ANIMETAL-USA!

Featuring singer Mike Vescera (OBSESSION/ex-LOUDNESS), bassist Rudy Sarzo (BLUE ÖYSTER CULT, ex-OZZY OSBOURNE, QUIET RIOT, WHITESNAKE, DIO), drummer Scott Travis (JUDAS PRIEST) and guitarist Chris Impellitteri (IMPELLITTERI) are gearing up for the October 12th release of their debut album in Japan, featuring the band covering Japanese anime theme songs.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW9oSOfOyy4&feature=youtube_gdata_player]Impellitteri //ANIMETAL USA??Space Battleship YAMATO - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Bedrockgames

I realize this page is already well into 22 pages but figured I would contribute what I could.

I started out on bands like Iron Maiden, Queen, Sabbath and Metallica and by the time I was in my own band in the 90s was very into classical music and doom metal (my guitar teacher turned me onto classical when he realized there was a lot of overlap between classical--particularly baroque--and metal). Don't know if doom metal has been brought up or not. 

Going mostly by memory here. Doom metal was basically heavy, slow and modeled after bands like Black Sabbath. I think some of the early "prot-doom" bands were Count Raven (basically sounds like ozzy) and St. Vitus (but I could be wrong there). I first became aware of Doom Metal with Candlemass. Soon after you had others bands like Solitude Aeturnus and Cathedral (who veered into a strange psychodelic/doom style after their first album---though that one was trippy as well). There were also a bunch of bands that were associated with Doom metal even though they were probably more properly labeled death metal and death rock, bands like My Dying Bride and Paradise Lost. MDB had a violist in the group (or at least a violin on their albums) and Paradise Lost had a recurring female vocalist.  Keep in mind I haven't really followed doom since the late 90s, so lord knows how this stuff has gelled over time.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome to the class!


----------



## Bedrockgames

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Welcome to the class!




Thanks.

Here are some links to the Doom bands:

Candlemass
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eiXYQPqCe8&feature=related]Candlemass Epistle No.81.wmv - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADosdi2CEwE&feature=fvsr]Candlemass Darkness in paradise.wmv - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNZOPxGNmzI]Candlemass - Dawn / A Tale Of Creation (HQ) - YouTube[/ame]

Solitude Aeturnus
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N31PgU_L__w&feature=related]Solitude Aeturnus - Opaque Divinity - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw_USb2EysU]Solitude Aeturnus - Where Angels Dare To Tread - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW86qYIu6UU&feature=related]Solitude Aeturnus - Beyond... - YouTube[/ame]


Cathedral
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMZNdKftcFQ&feature=related]Cathedral - Equilibrium - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOdV62qc8OY]Cathedral - Serpent Eve - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Qdj7pt7Iw]Cathedral - Hopkins (The Witchfinder General) - YouTube[/ame] (getting funky)

My Dying Bride
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipEDSD4ASdY]Sear Me - My Dying Bride - YouTube[/ame] (this one is classic)


----------



## Thunderfoot

Welcome to the classroom!
Yeah, doom metal (also known snidely as emo metal) wasn't really discussed much as it's a niche of death metal, but you're quite right, the melodic side of it is much more...well... more.... than straight death metal (ie shred your face, hair, the neighbor's dog, etc.)

As for Candlemass, I'd forgotten about them.  Are they still together and dropping music or have they gone the way of the dodo?

As for the scene changing, I was in Baltimore when they (to the tune of "They Paved Paradise")  They paved Hammerjack's and put up a parking lot... oooh lot lot lot lot, ooohhh hot hot hot hot.   
The old Hammerjack's location is not in the middle of the parking lot of Raven Stadium.  The "new" Hammerjack's is downtown, smaller and plays mostly hip-hop/R&B dance music.

Unfortunately for me, this is a small college town area and the college has lost it's "college" roots and become more of the foreign exchange, wanna be gangsta scene, in the middle of a real-life Hee-Haw episode.

Oh well, I'm sure it could be worse, I'm just not sure how yet.


----------



## Asmo

From Candlemass homepage: (posted 21/10)

"We are happy to announce that we have signed with Napalm Reocrds for the last and final CANDLEMASS album. Cool bands like Monster Magnet and Karma to Burn are on the label and we are proud to be a part of it too! 

Our farewell album will be recorded in december for a release in the spring. The album is our 11:th studio effort and we’ll do our best to make it a worthy end. CANDLEMASS hope to play the european festivals one last time, also tour and play everywhere on the planet where our faithful and fantastic fans want us to go…we will be there!!

Our career has lasted for over two decades. This year it was 25 years since “EPICUS DOOMICUS METALICUS” came out. It has been a long and bumpy ride, but we survived, and are now probably more successful than ever! We headline big festivals, and sell lots of records. But 25 years is a long time….somewhere sometime you need to slow down and stop no matter how much you are enjoying yourself. And it feels good to do it while you are still on top!!

But don’t be sad just yet all you fans of doom. CANDLEMASS won’t disappear for a while. We still have lots of gigs to play, a new great album to promote, uncharted C-mass territories to visit…especially Australia, Japan, Asia…(we would love to play there so book us please! AND…we have a 30 year anniversary to look forward to also!!
 So you’re not rid of us yet! Plenty of more DOOM to come!!"


Asmo


----------



## Bedrockgames

Thunderfoot said:


> Welcome to the classroom!
> Yeah, doom metal (also known snidely as emo metal) wasn't really discussed much as it's a niche of death metal, but you're quite right, the melodic side of it is much more...well... more.... than straight death metal (ie shred your face, hair, the neighbor's dog, etc.)




Speaking of Death Metal, has anyone brought up Bolt Thrower yet? They had a huge influence on my guitar style back in the early 90s. 

Death Metal sometimes gets a bad reputation when it comes to melody, but having been in a band that fused death/doom and iron maiden stylings, I think this is somewhat unfair. Sure the vocals aren't much in the way of melody (and I've always felt it works better sporadically as a technique rather than pure style), but the guitar can be very melodic. Not just the shredding, but the ballads too. Morbid Angel had one accoustic song (all guitar, no vocals) that was really great like that (can't remember the name as it has been nearly two decades).


----------



## ggroy

Bedrockgames said:


> Speaking of Death Metal, has anyone brought up Bolt Thrower yet? They had a huge influence on my guitar style back in the early 90s.
> 
> Death Metal sometimes gets a bad reputation when it comes to melody, but having been in a band that fused death/doom and iron maiden stylings, I think this is somewhat unfair. Sure the vocals aren't much in the way of melody (and I've always felt it works better sporadically as a technique rather than pure style), but the guitar can be very melodic. Not just the shredding, but the ballads too. Morbid Angel had one accoustic song (all guitar, no vocals) that was really great like that (can't remember the name as it has been nearly two decades).




I listened to Bolt Thrower and Morbid Angel around 20 years ago, when both were on Earache Records.

Don't really listen to them at all these days.


----------



## Bedrockgames

ggroy said:


> I listened to Bolt Thrower and Morbid Angel around 20 years ago, when both were on Earache Records.
> 
> Don't really listen to them at all these days.




Yeah, it has been the same amount of time since I've listened to them as well.


----------



## Thunderfoot

I heard Morbid Angel on the "radio" just the other day.

As for Death Metal, you are right on bedrock... The musicianship of a "majority" of the bands is quite good, with some being on the level of virtuoso-esque, but the vocals detract from many of the songs to make them un-listenable to me.  I can handle speed for speed's sake, I love distortion when it's toned "just right" and that high pitched squeal of feedback just on the verge of taking over, but not quite are all very much a part of what I look for in metal.  But vocals have to be both intelligible and musical, something that growling just doesn't cover on either note.  I don't disparage groups that use it or those that enjoy it, hell we're all one big happy metal family after all, but it just isn't my cup of tea.

There was a time when even growling had a sense of musicality to it (late 80s early 90s), now it's mostly just loud.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Just got home from the Verizon Center having seen Mastodon opening for Soundgarden.

Mastodon's set was good, but the first few songs were marred by a mud(dier than usual for them) mix which resulted in some of the guitar losing articulation.

Soundgarden, OTOH, brought it all: thunderous drums, rumbling bass, artistically shaped distortion, and vocals that have not lost a note of range or second of sustain since I saw them in Austin in the early 1990s.

Also from that show in the 1990s was, I believe, someone behind me (again) smoking something that was NOT tobacco or marijuana. Back then, I likened it to someone burning a pine-tree air freshener. Tonight's choice I liken to a bar of Irish Spring wrapped in walrus bacon, wrapped in an old sock and burned by a welding torch.

Good show, though.

Surprising number of kids, too.  Like 7-10 year olds.


----------



## ggroy

Bedrockgames said:


> Yeah, it has been the same amount of time since I've listened to them as well.




I more or less stopped listening to metal sometime in the early-mid 1990's.

The last metal stuff I listened to regularly, was some of that "Scott Burns" produced death metal released on record labels like Roadracer, Earache, etc ...  At the time, I was largely disappointed with how numerous death metal cds sounded.  I thought Scott Burns was kind of a crappy producer, where many  of his productions had most of the "bottom end" stripped out, and along  with a really "thin" guitar sound.  (Prior to that time, I was listening to a lot of early "proto" death metal stuff like Possessed, early Sodom, early Celtic Frost, early Death, early Bathory, etc ...).

By the time it was the early 1990's, it seemed like the extreme metal market was being flooded with tons of mediocre stuff released on labels like Century Media, Nuclear Blast, Relapse, Osmose, Peaceville, etc ...  Very little of it held my interest.  Even stuff released on Roadracer, Earache, Metal Blade, etc ... was holding less and less of my interest.  I was largely getting bored of it all, for the most part.


----------



## Bedrockgames

ggroy said:


> I more or less stopped listening to metal sometime in the early-mid 1990's.
> 
> The last metal stuff I listened to regularly, was some of that "Scott Burns" produced death metal released on record labels like Roadracer, Earache, etc ... At the time, I was largely disappointed with how numerous death metal cds sounded. I thought Scott Burns was kind of a crappy producer, where many of his productions had most of the "bottom end" stripped out, and along with a really "thin" guitar sound. (Prior to that time, I was listening to a lot of early "proto" death metal stuff like Possessed, early Sodom, early Celtic Frost, early Death, early Bathory, etc ...).
> 
> By the time it was the early 1990's, it seemed like the extreme metal market was being flooded with tons of mediocre stuff released on labels like Century Media, Nuclear Blast, Relapse, Osmose, Peaceville, etc ... Very little of it held my interest. Even stuff released on Roadracer, Earache, Metal Blade, etc ... was holding less and less of my interest. I was largely getting bored of it all, for the most part.




I had a similar experience. While I never stopped listening to metal, mostly I went back to stuff like Iron Maiden, Metallica and other more mainstream fair toward the end of the 90s. Also I think the grunge thing had a wierd effect on metal (it felt like around 95-96 a lot of these metal bands were struggling to be relevant). Now I listen to whatever sounds good, and usually that means something a bit more on the light side. Every once in a while I revisit my old metal albums for fun though. 

As I got older I think I became more open-minded as well. I will listen to anything from R&B, hip-hop, classical to metal and hard rock.


----------



## ggroy

Bedrockgames said:


> I had a similar experience. While I never stopped listening to metal, mostly I went back to stuff like Iron Maiden, Metallica and other more mainstream fair toward the end of the 90s. Also I think the grunge thing had a wierd effect on metal (it felt like around 95-96 a lot of these metal bands were struggling to be relevant).




I more or less exited the metal scene sometime in the late 1980's, where I stopped going to concerts/gigs regularly and purchased less and less new metal records/cds.

During the 1990's, I was mostly listening to cheesy eurodance style type music.  Though I didn't buy many cds at the time.  (I picked up many of these cheesy dance music cds years later, when they started showing up in the bargain bins for a dollar or two a pop at places like Wal-Mart or at thrift shops).



Bedrockgames said:


> Now I listen to whatever sounds good, and usually that means something a bit more on the light side. Every once in a while I revisit my old metal albums for fun though.
> 
> As I got older I think I became more open-minded as well. I will listen to anything from R&B, hip-hop, classical to metal and hard rock.




These days, I'm not particularly picky about music.  Whenever I'm driving, I usually tune in to some cheesy dance music or classic rock radio stations.


----------



## Asmo

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09MTDBb8qro]Nightwish - Storytime - YouTube[/ame]

First single from the upcoming album "Imaginaerum"

Magnificent song.

Asmo


----------



## Starman

Asmo said:


> First single from the upcoming album "Imaginaerum"
> 
> Magnificent song.
> 
> Asmo




I can't wait for their new album.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

This could be good:


Black Sabbath announce new album, 2012 world tour - Yahoo! News


----------



## El Mahdi

So, how many albums and tours has Ozzy done since his "Farewell" tour...


----------



## Asmo

About as many as Kiss 

Asmo


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The Cult are back at it, too!

Classic Rock  Blog Archive  The Cult Seal New Record Deal


----------



## Thunderfoot

I hope this one works out for the Cult - the last couple of venture they've had haven't done so well.

As for Black Sabbath, this was in the works for a couple of years now and was supposed to have happened after the "Heaven and Hell" tour ended.  Obviously with the death of RJD, this sped things up a bit.  Both Bill Ward and Sharon Osbourne have stated on a number of occasions it would happen, just never any details.

The REAL question is, was the music being written for RJD and then co-opted after his death or are all of these brand new Ozzy inspired songs?  The three musicians have always stated that the song writing process was different between the two camps.  This just seems like a like a really quick album to drop without any lead time.  Of course, sometimes when you get together, it just happens.  We'll see.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> loydj
> Steel Panther is a glam metal band from Los Angeles, California mostly known for their profane and humorous lyrics as well as their exaggerated on-stage personas.




While your info on Steel Panther is true, you have been found spamming, and thus, soon to be suspended.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Nü from Korn, "Narcissitic Cannibal":

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPlnyN9zduM&feature=youtube_gdata_player]Korn - Narcissistic Cannibal [Ft. Skrillex & Kill The Noise] OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

FYI, metalheads:

GIRAFFE TONGUE ORCHESTRA, the supergroup featuring guitarist Ben Weinman (THE DILLINGER ESCAPE PLAN), guitarist/vocalist Brent Hinds (MASTODON, WEST END MOTEL, FIEND WITHOUT A FACE) and bassist Eric Avery (ex-JANE'S ADDICTION), has recruited Jon Theodore (ONE DAY AS A LION, ex-THE MARS VOLTA) as its drummer.


----------



## El Mahdi

Black Sabbath's Tony Iommi diagnosed with cancer.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-sabbaths-tony-iommi-diagnosed-cancer-175621572.html




> LOS ANGELES (AP) — Black Sabbath guitarist Tony Iommi has cancer.
> 
> The band released a statement Monday saying the 63-year-old has been diagnosed with lymphoma and is working with doctors on treatment.
> 
> The news comes two months after the pioneering heavy metal quartet's original lineup announced it was working on its first album in 33 years with producer Rick Rubin in Los Angeles. The album remains set for a fall release and the rest of the group — vocalist Ozzy Osbourne, bassist Geezer Butler and drummer Bill Ward — will go to England to continue working with Iommi.
> 
> There was no word about Sabbath's plans for its live dates.
> 
> His bandmates asked fans "to send positive vibes" to Iommi.





Positive vibes, Tony...positive vibes.


----------



## Thunderfoot

This is so weird - it's like a note from a disease...

Dear Black Sabbath, 
I don't want you to reunite under any banner.
Signed Cancer....

Weird, just weird.


----------



## Thunderfoot

'Tis a sad time in Metal/Hard Rock my friends.  Van Halen FINALLY puts out their long awaited "new" music and what do we get?

Tattoo is a song that serves up incomprehensible DLR gibberish lyrics, a lackluster, no rhythm song and EVH recycling not one but two guitar solos from previous albums to create a Franken solo.   This is a travesty beyond all hope of salvation.  I would rather have seen them go out on top than scrapping the bottom.

And to make matters worse, their opening act on the first leg of their tour?

Earth, Wind and Fire....  Seriously, what gives guys?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it...

Those who mourned DLR's exit* now have to deal with the reality of his return.




* I like DLR, but I liked Sammy too.  And I thought DLR's solo stuff with Vai & Sheehan was good.  To bad he couldn't put together a stable group of his own.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Found this "Black Metal Name Generator"

What's Your Black Metal Name? | Latest

(Mine sucked.)


----------



## Starman

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Found this "Black Metal Name Generator"
> 
> What's Your Black Metal Name? | Latest
> 
> (Mine sucked.)




Mine is Paavo "Goreguts" Aarseth.

What's everyone's take on the new Lamb of God album? I have to say I'm really digging it.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Haven't heard it...but I'm not a LoG fan.  Respect 'em, though.


----------



## El Mahdi

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Found this "Black Metal Name Generator"
> 
> What's Your Black Metal Name? | Latest
> 
> (Mine sucked.)




Mine's _Rot Bloody Klump_.

I think I'll stick with my porn name: _Duke Oakwood_!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Then we're cousins- the difference is my first name is Ziggi.


----------



## El Mahdi

How's it going cuz?!?  When's the Bloody Klump reunion?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Well, I don't know- a Dëåth-Møøse bit my sister.  Nø, rëålli!

Sø wë pøstpønëd it.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Here is someone officially upping the ante:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPoomwdNZeY&feature=youtube_gdata_player]ArcAttack performs a Tesla Coil version of Iron Man by Black? Sabbath with a Faraday Guitar - YouTube[/ame]

(Their next tune should be "Frankenstein", I'm thinking.)


----------



## Starman

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Here is someone officially upping the ante:




I, for one, welcome our new electric metal overlords.


----------



## Thunderfoot

My Black Metal name doesn't make any sense.

Jannick "Wolfsbane" Warg???

My middle name means I kill wolves and my last name is a giant wolf....
I guess I'm one of those suicidal self-loathing lyric writing Black Metal stars..

New Whitesnake album is out and is pretty good.  Typical David Coverdale material.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Good to know, Wag...errr...Warg!


----------



## Thunderfoot

At least it wasn't Worf...


 DaHjaj 'oH [a] QaQ jaj Daq bom [about] Hegh
"Today is a good day to sing about death..."


----------



## El Mahdi

*Rock guitarist Ronnie Montrose Dead at 64.*



> Rock guitarist Ronnie Montrose, who formed the band that bore his name and performed with some of rock's heavy hitters, has died, his booking agent said Sunday.
> 
> Montrose died Saturday at his home in Millbrae, agent Jim Douglas said. He was 64.
> 
> Montrose had been in declining health for some time, battling prostate cancer and "personal demons," Douglas said.
> 
> Besides forming his own band in 1973, Montrose performed with a number of rockers, including Sammy Hagar, Herbie Hancock, Van Morrison, Boz Scaggs and the Edgar Winter Group.




Rock guitarist Ronnie Montrose dies in Millbrae - Yahoo! News

Rest In Peace, Ronnie.


In honor of his passing, here's a little _Bad Motor Scooter_.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_jpx21GWaA]Ronnie Montrose Bad Motor Scooter Dallas 2011 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I put up a memo for him in the "In Remembrance" thread.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Well, so much for a Montrose reunion.  Though, I guess with Ronnie out of the way it might be more likely from Sammy's perspective. (they didn't get along very well.)


----------



## Herschel

All right South America....You wanted the best, you got the best, the greatest all-star band in the world... Gene and a bunch of guys!

HardrockHaven.net > Members Of Kiss, Def Leppard, Guns N? Roses Form Supergroup

Gene Simmons, Joe Elliot, Duff McKagen, Matt Sorum, Gilby Clarke (who won't this guy play with?), Steve Stevens, Glenn Hughes, Billy Duffy, Seenbitchin' Bach, Mike Inez and Ed Roland seems an odd grouping.


----------



## Herschel

In other news it sounds like S.U.N. (Something Unto Nothing) is off the ground now. It's the new project featuring Sass Jordan, Brian Tichy (on guitar now), Tommy Stewart and Marty O'Brien. They had their first gig last night at The Viper Room and the album is due soon. 

BLABBERMOUTH.NET - SOMETHING UNTO NOTHING To Play First Show Tonight

Not sure if I love it, but Sass can still bring it.


----------



## Thunderfoot

It's strange seeing Tichy on guitar.  Especially since he is currently laying down drums for T&N (which does NOT stand for Tooth & Nail since they received a C&D letter).  
For those that haven't heard T&N are the rest of Dokken minus their name sake.  They formed a power trio, however, BT played drums on half of the track and the band has said he is a vital member, so how this is going to work on the road, (ie is Brian or "Wild" Mick Brown playing the drums) has yet to be answered.  Mick does several vocal tracks on the new album in production so maybe BT will be brought on as a rhythm guitarist.
Who knows? Not I.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Very interesting stuff!


----------



## Herschel

Tichy's also been drumming for Whitesnake. 

It looks like Quuensryche may be on the outs. The rest of the band has played a couple of gigs now with Crimson Glory's lead singer while Geoff Tate is fulfilling their commitments as a solo performer with a backing band.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Damn, and they just played a nice show earlier this year, one act among many on a big festival ticket broadcast live on HDNet.


----------



## Thunderfoot

The official story - they are all currently focusing on other projects...

Here's the issue, Wilton & Rockenfeld supposedly were talking about replacing Tate before the Rio show when he overheard them then assualted Wilton (pushed down into a table) and then pulled knife on Rockenfeld.  Security broke it up and they went on to play the gig.  Then a few days later at Rocklahoma, Tate told the audience "You guys suck - I know it Sunday and you have to go to work tomorrow, but are you gonna let that stop you?  Anyway it's nice to be here on a Sunday."  The crowd started to vacate soon after as the performance was a "little off kilter" according to one fan.

So what does it mean?  It means that Queensryche isn't playing any dates at the moment (even though they have a few scheduled dates later this year.).  Tate has said that the band will play the dates as scheduled but in the mean time he's doing his solo project thing and the other guys are in "Rising West".  An interesting side note one Queensryche date that has been changed is the Destination Chaos cruise where it know lists Queensryche's Geoff Tate instead of the band.  Good scoop Herschel, we'll keep an eye out on this one.

Speaking of break-ups, Van Halen has "postponed 33 dates" on their tour.  No official word but word on the street is DLR is being a douche and EVH is returning the favor in-kind.  Ah, to be young and in love again.  Anyone who didn't see this coming, please turn in your leathers and leave the building.  DLR may be talented, but he's always been an a******.  His ego is the largest piece of equipment on stage.  After he left the band the first time, AVH said they, "had to hire an extra semi just to carry it around."  I knew this was doomed when they took Kool & The Gang as their opening act.  I mean, how badly do you want loose your hard rock credentials by giving fans a taste of 80s R&B before the "greatest rock show on earth"?  Some promoter needs to killed immediately.

The John Sykes/Mike Portnoy project has had a couple of earth shattering news bombs dropped - One the bass player is Billy Sheehan, two, John Sykes is no longer in the group.  It appears that Ritchie Kotzen is taking the reigns on guitar for this new power trio.  Frankly they should have tried to get either Steve Vai or Tony MacAlpine in my opinion (Joe Satriani is of course busy with Chickenfoot or his name would have been in there too.).

This has been your metal minute, I'm Thunderfoot, bringing the pain since, well for more than a few decades.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

My brain just _*woggled*_ reading all that.

Geoff Tate swinging a knife?  John Sykes vamooses?

(DLR vs EVH was _utterly_ predictable, though.)

As for Tony MacAlpine stepping into Syke's spot- what a shredder!- he's rather busy himself: http://www.tonymacalpine.com/news/

I can think of some others who might have been fun: Vernon Reid, David Chastain, Andy Timmons, Reeves Gabrels...


----------



## Herschel

Thunderfoot said:


> Speaking of break-ups, Van Halen has "postponed 33 dates" on their tour. No official word but word on the street is DLR is being a douche and EVH is returning the favor in-kind. Ah, to be young and in love again. Anyone who didn't see this coming, please turn in your leathers and leave the building. DLR may be talented, but he's always been an a******. His ego is the largest piece of equipment on stage. After he left the band the first time, AVH said they, "had to hire an extra semi just to carry it around."




Dave has always had issues with his ego driving people nuts, maybe as much as anyone short of...


> The John Sykes/Mike Portnoy project has had a couple of earth shattering news bombs dropped - One the bass player is Billy Sheehan, two, John Sykes is no longer in the group. It appears that Ritchie Kotzen is taking the reigns on guitar for this new power trio. Frankly they should have tried to get either Steve Vai or Tony MacAlpine in my opinion (Joe Satriani is of course busy with Chickenfoot or his name would have been in there too.).




Has there been _anyone_ Sykes has gotten along with for more than a short period of time? I was supposed to see him touring with Thin Lizzy a couple of years ago but Tommy Aldridge broke his collarbone then Sykes got PO'd and quit. Of course when he was in Whitesnake he and Coverdale had to co-exist, which is also something that couldn't end well. 

I like Kotzen, but Sheehan and Vai are amazing together. I saw them on DLR's first solo tour with Gregg Bisonette on drums. That was a killer show instrumentally. If Vai would have joined would that mean MacAlpine joins by default to play second guitar and keys?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Herschel said:


> Dave has always had issues with his ego driving people nuts, <SNIP>



Yeah, that's kind of like saying humans breathe oxygen.  



Herschel said:


> Has there been _anyone_ Sykes has gotten along with for more than a short period of time? I<SNIP>



That's a good question?  The big thing up to this point is that he has (in the past) always been hanging around other people with big egos.  Portnoy and Sheehan are about two of the most down to earth folks in the heavy rock biz.  So...yeah, it's Sykes.



Herschel said:


> I like Kotzen, but Sheehan and Vai are amazing together. I saw them on DLR's first solo tour with Gregg Bisonette on drums. That was a killer show instrumentally. If Vai would have joined would that mean MacAlpine joins by default to play second guitar and keys?



This is specifically a trio, so no on the four piece, but you're right, Sheehan and Vai do sound good together, they even sound great with Portnoy (they did a project together once, (Sheehan, Portnoy and MacAlpine have too)), however, they have always had a fourth.  Ritchie Kotzen makes sense as a replacement, let's face it, he's made his entire career on replacing other guitarists that suddenly left for one reason or another.  I have stated in other places that he is basically THE go to guy if you lose your guitarist; mostly because he is a musical chameleon.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Sheehan, Portnoy and MacAlpine




I'd love to have seen that...


----------



## Herschel

Thunderfoot said:


> This is specifically a trio, so no on the four piece, but you're right, Sheehan and Vai do sound good together, they even sound great with Portnoy (they did a project together once, (Sheehan, Portnoy and MacAlpine have too)), however, they have always had a fourth.



Yeah, I just get a weird kick out of Tony playing keys with/for Vai's touring band and second guitar. I mean MacAlpine as a second guitar?



> Ritchie Kotzen makes sense as a replacement, let's face it, he's made his entire career on replacing other guitarists that suddenly left for one reason or another. I have stated in other places that he is basically THE go to guy if you lose your guitarist; mostly because he is a musical chameleon.




He and Reb Beach should start a project with Jon Corabi and Kenny Aronoff.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Herschel said:


> Yeah, I just get a weird kick out of Tony playing keys with/for Vai's touring band and second guitar. I mean MacAlpine as a second guitar?
> 
> He and Reb Beach should start a project with Jon Corabi and Kenny Aronoff.



Or Joe Lynne Turner and Anton Fig.  XD


----------



## Thunderfoot

Well boys & girls it's official - Queensryche, as we knew it, is done.
Geoff Tate was served with paperwork from the new management company of Queensryche, Inc. - You're Fired!
Evidently, Geoff had several family members in the company; a manager, office assistant and a guitar tech, they have each been fired over the last few weeks and it culminated with Tate's release.

Geoff was surprisingly cavalier about the whole thing in an interview, but when asked about the Queensryche name and property rights he stated, "well, that's for the courts to decide."  So while this is finished, it's far from over.

Yet another group bites the dust.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

WOOF!

When showbiz gets ugly, it gets UGLY!

Hmmm...what if GT and DLR swapped frontman gigs?  

Or...I wonder if Ian Gillen is interested?


----------



## Thunderfoot

Well, they could always call Joe Lynn Turner.  XD


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

On the Street of Silent Lucidity, by Qüeensrain

I've seen your face before tonight
Maybe I just see what I want it to be
I know it's a mystery
Do you remember me on a street of dreams
Running through my memory
On the street of dreams

Commanding in another world
Suddenly, you'll hear and see
This magic new dimension

I
Will be watching over you
I am gonna help you see it through
I 
Will protect you in the night
I am smiling next to you 
In silent lucidity...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

African Metal!

Rebels with a cause: Botswana's heavy metal heads - CNN.com

Skinflint
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZum9J9ptVA&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

(_THEY_ have other vids, but fellow metal heads Demon and Gunmoke have no vids on YouTube...yet.)


----------



## Asmo

Nice song (early Iron Maiden feeling), horrible voice.

Asmo


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> On the Street of Silent Lucidity, by Qüeensrain
> 
> <SNIP>



Strangest mash-up EVAR!!!!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ehhh...you should have seen the stuff I did on _The Kingdom of Loathing_ chat rooms.  Some even featured llamas.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The latest in the Queensrÿche saga...

GuitarSquid.com | Bandmembers win the right to use the Queensryche name. Bad news is that they still play Queensryche tunes.


----------



## Herschel

Dannyalcatraz said:


> The latest in the Queensrÿche saga...
> 
> GuitarSquid.com | Bandmembers win the right to use the Queensryche name. Bad news is that they still play Queensryche tunes.




They're all so full of crap it's insane. Nothing coming out of any of them is to be believed. Looks at the writing credits of the albums, since DeGarmo went grunge and left Tate's done the majority of the writing, for good or bad. Tate's definately gone more mellow but it also appears the other guys never stepped up and they're blaming flagging sales on Tate alone.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Perhaps they should change the band's name to Scaÿpegoat...


----------



## Herschel

LoL, makes sense. Just like any divorce the stuff really hits the fan and each side tries to look innocent.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Herschel said:


> LoL, makes sense. Just like any divorce the stuff really hits the fan and each side tries to look innocent.




But mommy, I don't want to go to the GeoffRyche concert with daddy, I want to go to the QueensWest concert with you....


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Queesrÿche update:

1) Geoff Tate is definitely suing his band, and he has signed a solo deal with InsideOut records.

2) he has been replaced in Queensrÿche by (_SURPRISE!_) Crimson Glory vocalist, Todd La Torre.

3) this leaves Crimson Glory in the lurch of course.  Perhaps they should send Geoff an email...


----------



## Janx

Herschel said:


> They're all so full of crap it's insane. Nothing coming out of any of them is to be believed. Looks at the writing credits of the albums, since DeGarmo went grunge and left Tate's done the majority of the writing, for good or bad. Tate's definately gone more mellow but it also appears the other guys never stepped up and they're blaming flagging sales on Tate alone.




I saw them open for Maiden on the Final frontier tour.  Not a huge fan, and didn't hear anything that turned my head.

Coheed and Cambria on this year's tour did pretty well, and was a bit more memorable for a band I don't follow in comparison.

Plus, Maiden rocked as usual.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Coheed & Cambria, despite their obvious talent- which I respect- do nothing except annoy me.  I cannot explain why.


----------



## Herschel

I'm with you, they're like Tool to me: The sum is not the equal to the very good parts.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Well put- I'll be using that turn of the phrase in the future.


----------



## Thunderfoot

I like C&C, but you kind of have to be in their head space to get them.  They write most of their music based on their comic book. (yes, they wrote the graphic novels, first).  So not trying to figure out the lyrics works for me, I frankly cannot listen to music anymore without immediately dissecting it (hazard of the job/bio make-up) so it's nice to hear good music that I don't have to think about (or even understand).  It makes me feel normal, or at least like nearly everyone else that says, "Oh, I don't listen to the lyrics, but it has a good beat." (I _HATE_ that phrase...)

BTW, _April Wine _is on tour, unfortunately nowhere near here otherwise, I would be all over that....   Didn't I just ask about them a few pages back?


----------



## Herschel

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Queesrÿche update:
> 
> 1) Geoff Tate is definitely suing his band, and he has signed a solo deal with InsideOut records.
> 
> 2) he has been replaced in Queensrÿche by (_SURPRISE!_) Crimson Glory vocalist, Todd La Torre.
> 
> 3) this leaves Crimson Glory in the lurch of course. Perhaps they should send Geoff an email...




And the tangled web continues...
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/geoff-tate-recruits-sarzo-blotzer-for-new-queensryche-lineup/<O</O

Geoff Tate - Vocals 
Bobby Blotzer - Drums
RudySarzo - Bass
Glen Drover - Guitar
Kelly Gray - Guitar
Randy Gane - Keyboards


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Hhmmmmm...don't know what to say about that.  Those guys all are skilled, but not really as Prog minded as the original Queensrÿche lineup.  Perhaps we'll get something more...Judasy Priesty.


----------



## Herschel

Which wouldn't be bad, but that was also kind of my thought too, though Gray Drover and Tate may have enough in them to make it work somewhat. It would be interesting to see Chris DeGarmo work with one of the groups again, but he's been more reclusive musically than Jake E. Lee of late.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

My bet is DeGarmo is sick of all of them.

Hm- maybe he'd get back into the game if he went in a totally new dimension.  Maybe do some Prog-pop or Prog-funk?

I mean, Buckethead does some cool stuff with this musical collective called Material, which includes people like Bootsy Collins, Bill Laswell, Jah Wobble, Brain, Bernie Worrell and Nicky Skopetelis.

So who could get DeGarmo going again?

Raoul Walton is a stealth funk master- he played bass on something like 80% of kraut pop in the 1980s- I'm sure he'd be good to go.

Add William Orbit, DJ Shadow, Cindy Blackman and Skin...you've got power and ambiance like nobody's biz!


----------



## Herschel

It would be interesting to see what DeGarmo, Walton and Will Calhoun could come up with. Of course they'd probably end up with Miles Kennedy on vocals just to make it not as cool as it could have been. 

He had done some stuff with Jerry Cantrell, Mike Inez and Sean Kinnney a number of years back, but that didn't seem to go much of anywhere.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And now, The Foo Fighters are on hiatus.

Dave Grohl says Foo Fighters taking a hiatus – The Marquee Blog - CNN.com Blogs

(I pity the Foos!)


----------



## El Mahdi

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Hhmmmmm...don't know what to say about that. Those guys all are skilled, but not really as Prog minded as the original Queensrÿche lineup. Perhaps we'll get something more...Judasy Priesty.




Maybe.  This group is definitely a stylisitic departure from typical Queensryche, excepting Kelly Gray.  I just don't know if he can play at the same level as Wilton and Degarmo...  Production wise...yeah, he understands Queensryche.  I just don't know if he has the chops.

But Bobby Blotzer...?!?

Don't get me wrong, he's a good drummer, but he's pretty much just a straight ahead, pound it out kind of drummer.  That works for the type of metal he's been a part of, but I think the kind of intricate rythms like we heard in Mindcrime, are just way out of his league.


----------



## Herschel

I don't mind Blotzer either, but Rockenfield has serious chops.


----------



## Herschel

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And now, The Foo Fighters are on hiatus.
> 
> Dave Grohl says Foo Fighters taking a hiatus – The Marquee Blog - CNN.com Blogs
> 
> (I pity the Foos!)





So Dave will finish his side project, the guys will take a vacation and eventually they'll be back at it. I doubt it willl be all that long really, maybe 6 months.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The only side project I know of is the documentary.  Yes, supposedly it does involve recording some songs, so there may be an incredible soundtrack to go with it.

I foresee it being more than 6 months, though.


----------



## Herschel

I wouldn't be surprised to see Grohl do a series of shows as a drummer again, maybe with some sort of "supergroup", but I wouldn't think he'd do that for an extended time period either. It'd be interesting to see him get together with Chris Cornell for a little something or other.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Maybe he's going to Geoff Tate's house to plead his case...

Or perhaps, he will don a cape and mask and sneak into the houses of pop stars- especially the young ones like Justin Bieber- to teach them about the merits of more substantial music...  "BEWARE THE WRATH OF...DOUBLE FORTE!"


----------



## Herschel

"I'll show youy Bieber fever you little #%^@!^#%!@#!@!!!! See this, this is a guitar, it has strings that vibrate and make noise. It takes musicianship and manual dexterity to make it sing, yeah, and these are drums, I've played them a lot too and it builds up your physique, you know, muscles, with which I'm about to lkick your scrawny little butt with. Any sawed-off weasel can hang with Selena Gomez, I hung out with a guy who handled Courtney Love. Lets see you try to keep up with Lindsay Lohan. "


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

...then he whacks him with his drumstick-chaku!


----------



## Herschel

Jake E. Lee's (FINALLY!) back in the music news and recording a new album. Sass Jordan is going to be providing vocals, though not sure if it's all tracks. Sign up Gil Moore and Mike Levine and Oh Canada, eh?


----------



## Aries_Omega

*Metal Education*

This thread is pretty long so I will admit I didn't read the whole thing. With that said what I did read has a lot of great info. I am an old skool metal head that likes some of the new stuff too. I have a 14 year old son that likes the music and a 10 year old daughter that kinda sorta does. I have been teaching them what I can, but I think of the best things is to start with having people watch the documentary "[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Headbangers-Journey-Tony-Iommi/dp/B000EGEJIY"]Metal: A Headbanger's Journey[/ame]". If anything for the backstory on lots of things, the understanding of the history and culture and for the "family tree of metal" alone is reason enough.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome to school!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

More lineup changes: Dave Grohl is going to be in QOTSA a least long enough to record their new album- Joey Castillo quit.

Good to see he's not gathering dust in a corner somewhere.


----------



## DanotheSlender

Love this thread, glad to see i'm not the only gamer/metalhead around!  

 I'm a guitarist/vocalist who has been in an on and off band since 1989, started out doing some covers for fun ended up writing our own stuff, in the begininng we sounded a lot like hard rock/hair metal in the Bon Jovi/Whitesnake vein and have grown progressivly harder over the years, recently re-writing some of our old tunes to beef up the heavy tone.

Originally i was lead guitar/backup vocals our bassist/lead vocalist had a bad health scare last year and has been blowing us off since, so i have been promoted to lead vocals too.  

Sorry if i am rambling..insomnia will do that to you, i have however read this entire thread since i can't seem to sleep so it's all good! Gotta throw out my personal choice for iconic metal song...Master of Puppets... pure heavy metal at it's finest IMHO..

As a guitarist i have been heavily influenced by many over the years including Neil Schon, Eddie VH, SRV, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani and "Dimebag" Darrell Abbot(rip) along with many others. Went so far into Vai that back in the day i had the 10 hour guitar workout pinned up on the wall, and i transcribed the entire guitar battle sequence from "Crossroads" after i recorded it onto cassette tape from VHS..LOL

Anyway new to the boards and thread here so be kind and keep headbanging till your neck falls off...the head stays but the neck is gone...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome to school!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Well, The Mars Volta is no more.

http://www.live4ever.uk.com/2013/01/cedric-bixler-zavala-brings-the-mars-volta-to-an-end/


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

LoG singer Randy Blythe acquitted in Czechoslovakia!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21668181


----------



## nathanexplosion

Motorhead? Iron Maiden? Yes, please!!
Great news about Randy Blythe, too. It's been all over the web today.


----------



## Herschel

The Queensryche saga continues, with Geoff Tate's crew releasing a new album next month called "Frequency Unknown". It sounds innocuous enough until one sees the cover art:


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ah, hell- gotta buy THAT one ASAP!


----------



## El Mahdi

deleted


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Black Sabbath releasing new album without Bill Ward, _with_ Ozzy, and with Brad Wilk (RATM) on drums!

http://www.guitarworld.com/exclusive-interview-black-sabbath-discuss-new-album-13


----------



## Herschel

No Dio, no Vinny, apparently.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

In fairness, it would be hard for them to get Dio at this point. 

However, I always thought it would be interesting to see another album with Glen Hughes (Seventh Star album) or Ian Gillan (Born Again album).

Hughes is a busy man these days, I know, but Black Country Communion seems to have imploded, and I know from an interview he did that he regrets to this day that he wasn't able to help his buddy Tony Iommi out more after the release of Seventh Star.

And Ian's performances on "Disturbing the Priest" and "Trashed" are among my favorite Sab tunes of all times.


----------



## Herschel

True, but Vinnie is still very good and knows all the tunes. Ray Gillen was also a good vocalist, and also dead. Hmmm, best band of musicians who are dead but the groups they played with are still going today.....

Vocals: Ronnie James Dio, Ray Gillen
Guitar: Randy Rhodes, Peter Banks
Bass: Cliff Burton
Drums: Eric Carr
Keys: Danny Federici


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Not Ray Gillen, IAN Gillian.  On again, off again vocalist for Deep Purple, he also did vox for Black Sabbath's Born Again album before the whole mess with Hughes/R.Gillen and Seventh Star.

Or did you bring up Ray for a different reason?


----------



## Herschel

Ray for a (somewhat) different reason, was also in Sabbath, also hads great pipes, also dead. It got me thinking about great players who went too early.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Yeah...I know what you mean.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

New QOTSA due in June!

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazi...e_Announce_the_Release_of_Like_Clockwork.aspx


----------



## Herschel

Minor, weird irritation: I always thought that was a dumb band name for a band that wasn't around at least 10 years  but couldn't get to be around that long as that band without having that name.


----------



## ggroy

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And Ian's performances on "Disturbing the Priest" and "Trashed" are among my favorite Sab tunes of all times.




Ian Gillan's live versions of the song "Black Sabbath" (from the "Born Again" tour) sounded really intense.  I thought he did it better than Ozzy and Dio.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ian, more than anyone else but possibly Rob Halford, pretty much defined my ideal metal vocalist- power, range, control...had it all!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

_*sigh*_

Chi Cheng, the founding bass player for Deftones, has died 5 years after lapsing into a coma after a car accident.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/14/showbiz/deftones-chi-cheng-obit/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


----------



## Herschel

Well, the Queensryche divorce rages on. Tate's "Frequency Unknown" came out yesterday and I have to admit, I like a lot of it but really find myself missing Scott Rockenfield's playing and sound. The bass is fine and the guest guitarists are okay, but it was missing a lot of that instrumental chemistry I expect. 

Contrast that with "Redemption" the single put out by Rockenfield/Wilton/Jackson et al. Todd LaTorre doesn't have the pipes of Tate, not even close to the depth and tone. Michael Wilton also sounds like a guest guitarist on the solo and kind of directionless. Rockenfield's drumming is there and gives it that familiar foundation with Jackson along side. It's only one song and hard to extrapolate to a whole album but from teh evidence at hand neither side are as good without the other.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Kind of like a lot of the Smashing Pumpkins' solo stuff...


----------



## Herschel

Yep, very much what came to mind.


----------



## Herschel

I know a lot of people like the Doors, but I'd really love to see Ian Astbury and The Cult tour. It seems he ends up splitting his time a lot.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I think he's also losing his control a bit, too.  The last few times I've seen him perform- on video- he hasn't sounded as sharp as he has in the past.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Bad news, y'all- Jeff Hanneman of Slayer has died.


----------



## Herschel

Necrotising fasciitis, what a horrible but gamer/death metal way to go.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

In happier news, though, we have new albums from Black Sabbath and Deep Purple to look forward to...plus a Sab tour!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Oops!

http://music.yahoo.com/news/heavy-metal-singer-tim-lambesis-arrested-murder-hire-002825143.html


----------



## Herschel

D'oh! It's not as if they were a huge band and she was in position to soak him for millions.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Maybe he just had writer's block.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

...and STP has become the new VH:

http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/stop-t...lots-flight-famous-lead-singer-212145071.html


----------



## Herschel

Except Van Halen are at least lead by great players. As mush douchebaggery as Eddie and Alex can bring, they're both tremendous players while nobody in STP really trips the meter.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Actually, I think the DeLeos are pretty damn solid.  Not in EVH's category, no, but a cut above.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Dannyalcatraz said:


> ...and STP has become the new VH:
> 
> http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/stop-t...lots-flight-famous-lead-singer-212145071.html




We can't have nice things anymore...

http://music.yahoo.com/news/stone-temple-pilots-sue-ex-frontman-scott-weiland-235813948.html


----------



## El Mahdi

deleted


----------



## El Mahdi

deleted


----------



## Herschel

Fun!


----------



## Herschel

http://www.amazon.com/Information-S...f=cm_cd_pg_pg1?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B00BKBCGDW
Apparently there actually is a somewhat coordinated group in the band wars. Jeebus, this makes Edition Wars seem almost tame. Propaganda 101: Do something while accusing the other side of doing the same thing. Reading some less-than-5-star reviews of Redemption and there's a group of people openly attacking/trolling people who haven't written glowing reviews and also writing 1-star reviews of Frequency Unknown, while accusing thos against them of being on the tates' payroll. You can't make it up. 

Come to think of it, the anti-Tate trolls on Amazon remind me a lot of a number of those reviewing D&D on Amazon. This is why I don't base purchases on rube views. What an almost useless society we've become.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Wowzers!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Lookie here!

http://www.guitarworld.com/tony-iom...illan-release-2-disc-whocares-album-august-28


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Some notable lineup changes:

http://www.guitarworld.com/anthrax-reveal-new-guitarist-jon-donais-shadows-fall


----------



## Herschel

It seems like Charlie Benante was an original member but really Scott Ian is the only founder left and has been for a long time.


----------



## Emerald88

Anthrax line-up has been a revolving door for years now. I stopped trying to keep track of who was where years ago.

recently a band called Torche on tour. Become slightly obsessed with their 2 albums. No screaming, all clean singing, but some of the biggest riffes I've heard in years. Really interesting and distinctive sound. Meanderthall is a great album. (I sound like a spokesman for them, but I swear, they just rock).

Also, looking forward to the new Red Fang album!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Godflesh is back together again- have been for a few years- but apparently, they're planning on releasing a new album in 2014.

Yay!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ah, those whacky guys in KISS:

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2013/9/9/4711766/la-kiss-contract-offer-afl-tim-tebow


----------



## Herschel

Translation: Tebow is a lousy quarterback but his cult-like following would buy tickets and merchandise so we'd be happy to sign him.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

That, plus it could be a boost for the AFL if he managed to work out his issues and make it back to the NFL, like Kurt Warner did.


----------



## Herschel

Not bloody likely. Warner had solid mechanics, accuracy and a decent arm coming out, he just came from a small school and the pro game was too big for him. (re: speed) Part of the reason he didn't stick at first was because of where he came in: Green Bay with Favre, Brunell and Detmer on the roster also. He learned speed in the AFL. Saint Louis brought him in as a backup to Trent Green and had not Green been lost for teh season, Warner may never have gotten his chance to start. He was a perfect fit for the Mike Martz offense though because he had learned to speed up his decision-making. 

Tebow has completely borked mechanics, a lousy arm, terrible accuracy, can't read a defense and hasn't shown the willingness (or aptitude) to learn. He simply lacks the basic skills and attitude needed to succeed as a QB in the NFL (and CFL and AFL also). In college he played for the best teams boosters could buy and he could run at-will or throw to wide open receivers.

In the pros, a guy who was considered covered in college is wide open. He doesn't have the accuracy.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Herschel said:


> Not bloody likely.
> 
> (Snip)
> 
> He doesn't have the accuracy.




I agree, but if he really wants to be back in the NFL- and make no mistake, he does- he's only got 3 paths:

1) making a mark and improving in the AFL

2) making a mark and improving in the CFL

3) QB attrition in the NFL.

Of those, and considering _only_ the KISS have offered him a contract (AFAIK), which do you think is the likeliest path?

Take it, Tebow. Or do the Bill Bixby _Hulk_ end credits walk away from the NFL.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Jake E. Lee returns with his new band, Red Dragon Cartel:

http://www.guitarworld.com/jake-e-l...se-feeder-lyric-video-debut-album-set-january


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Jake E. Lee returns with his new band, Red Dragon Cartel:

http://www.guitarworld.com/jake-e-l...se-feeder-lyric-video-debut-album-set-january


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Cool!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Interesting stuff from Dave Ellefson.

http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/music-...--including-his-biggest-regret-222638483.html


----------



## Thunderfoot

Herschel said:


> <SNIP> Sign up Gil Moore and Mike Levine and Oh Canada, eh?



That's not funny - I'm seriously pissed that Gil Moore vetoed a Triumph reunion because he doesn't want to play anymore, just produce.


----------



## Thunderfoot

El Mahdi said:


> Since this is Metal School, here's some school kids that could take us all to school:
> 
> 
> Unlocking the Truth



There appearance on "Totally Biased" reminds me of when I saw Living Colour on "Showtime at the Apollo" - the crowd is happy they are black, not so happy they aren't playing R&B or Hip hop.     The sad fake mosh pit pissed me off a bit...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Soooo....  I guess you are all wondering where I've been.  I have to admit my time is split between about thirty projects and my copious internet gaming habit, since I can't seem to find any roll-players in this area.

One of them however is me hooking up with my old guitar player from High School.  We blew the dust of the instruments and realized, we still have chops (sort of) and started writing again.  It's a VERY slow process since we only get a couple of days every month and a half (his real job is a riverboat captain) but we are closing in on a full album (hopefully soon).  Will hopefully be posting some snippets here eventually.  

Still bringing the noise - Thunderfoot


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Glad to see you roaming your old stomping grounds!  And good luck & Godspeed on the Npmusic front!

FWIW, I'm still playing my twangers, and still just for my personal enjoyment.  Umbran has picked up the 6-string bug recently, too.

The oddest bit, though: my 68 year old mom sooooo badly wanted to see Aerosmith- a band she has loved since their reunion in the late 1980s- that she bought tickets and demanded I take her.  (She doesn't see well at night, and dad doesn't do hard rock at all.)  Opening act, Slash, was a bit of a mystery to her, but she recognized a couple of his pieces.  And since that concert, she got exposed to a couple of the tamer Opeth CDs I had in my car...and she bought her own copies.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> <SNIP>  And since that concert, she got exposed to a couple of the tamer Opeth CDs I had in my car...and she bought her own copies.




*sniff*  NO I'M NOT CRYING!!!!  I just have something in my eye... beautiful man beautiful...

And thanks for the well wishes, I keep thinking in the back of my mind would X like it (where X is a person I know and have either played or discussed music with) you are on that list bra.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

What kind of genre are you and your crew aiming for?

And, of course, if you send me links to stuff you record, I'll be happy to give constructive criticism.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Prog inspired metal - what else?    It's kind of all over the metal/hard rock spectrum since both Daryl, and I like a lot of the same stuff everything from Queensryche to Journey.  We cut our teeth on Van Halen and progressed into Pretty Maids before I left for the Military.  So melodic or experimental makes no difference and subject matter is all over the map.  We have songs dealing with alcoholic parenting revenge, depression, postpartum baby drowning and religious hypocrisy; so you know, the usual.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Holy shamoley, they're back!  My favorite industrial metal band of all time!
http://www.metalobsession.net/2014/...-an-interview-with-justin-broadrick-godflesh/

...which reminds me: Thunderfoot (or anyone else), is there an app or something I can feed a song into to have it create sheet music or tab for?  I am trying to take the rhythm from Godflesh's song "Pure", Primus' "My Name is Mud", Chemical Brothers' "Setting Sun" and some other oddball tunes to use for practicing/composing Surf guitar to.

(Nuts, I know, but...)


----------



## Thunderfoot

So sorry I missed this, yes there is a program, (I think), no I don't know the name of it, but my guitar player has something that he uses that analyzes songs and drops chord patterns and key changes, so at the very least I'll get that to you in a couple of weeks (when he comes back home off he river.)


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Danke!


----------



## Bedrockgames

I just seriously got back into the guitar after a long period of casual play (prior to which I had been heavily involved in bands, song writing and learning about music). One thing I've discovered is some of the old stuff stuck or just needs a quick refresher (relearning how to read music is pretty smooth, but my rhythm is almost completely gone and needs major calibration). Almost no recollection of modes. So I just said screw it and started with square one all over again, going through all the basics again from the ground up just to fill in any gaps or remove wrong assumptions I've developed over the years. 

What is incredible is how easy this is to do these days with youtube and other online resources. When I was a kid, you had to learn from your guitar teacher and books (most of which were total crap and strained to explain concepts clearly). So it was a process where you were very reliant upon other people. Now this stuff is all up online. And if you need feedback or lessons from a pro, those can be done by Skype. 

I tend to be a pretty intuitive player, but still find music theory incredibly helpful (at the very least, being able to write stuff down in notation is handy). I've always liked bands like King Diamond, Iron Maiden, and guitarists like Randy Rhoads. The theory seems to work well with those styles. But I was always into heavier and slower stuff as well, like Cathedral, Candlemass, Bolt Thrower, and many other bands on the melodic end of the Death/Doom spectrum. For that music theory can be handy (candlemas definitely has a neoclassical vibe) but you can also just arrive there through intuition. I'm Curious what other peoples experiences are with music theory and metal; how they feel it fits in.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Even though I grew up in and around music, I've always been more of an intuitive player.  Not that I can't see the value of theory, I'm just not disciplined.

And metal can be VERY technical, so music theory's benefits are obvious.


----------



## Bedrockgames

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Even though I grew up in and around music, I've always been more of an intuitive player.  Not that I can't see the value of theory, I'm just not disciplined.
> 
> And metal can be VERY technical, so music theory's benefits are obvious.




I was an 'okay' pupil when it came to music theory. I wouldn't say I excelled, and I wouldn't say I was enamored with it, but I picked it up enough that I could get by. Some of it is just having the right teacher. My first two guitar teachers bored me to tears with music theory and one of them made me hate it for a while (because he always brought it back to reggae for some reason, and I just wasn't able to connect with that style of music). But the the teacher who came next and sort of stuck around for long time, figured out how to find stuff that I could connect with. He basically saw the connection between the metal I was listening to and baroque music. So he got me to practice reading sheet music by giving me Bach pieces to play. So I think it is just one of those things where, when it is presented i the right way, it is a lot easier to digest. I always liked breaking the rules and my teacher was one of these instructors who taught me we learn the rules so we know what we are doing when we break them. Still I am surprised how much I thought I absorbed and really didn't. How many rules I am breaking simply because I don't know the rules. The mentality was just the right fit for me (I was not learning rules to be another stuffy, uptight player, I was learning the rules so we could break things). Still I am surprised by how many gaps there are in my knowledge now. I think I knew a lot of technique, but was missing foundational bits of knowledge (or I just got rusty). So that is why I am building again from the ground up. 

I am sort of split. I have a fairly intuitive style but it is largely emulating players who have a good grounding in theory. I think there is a spectrum and players need to find for themselves where they fit most. Personally I like technical players, but I also find that some players get so caught up in theory and technique that they lose of a bit of the soul. I think things can get sloppy if its all feeling and no technique or theory (or at least a bit dull) but it can swing the other way too. So for me as a listener it is about balance more than anything else. There are some amazing guitar players out there, who frankly can't write a memorable melodic line to save their lives (everything works in theory but it never comes to together or leaves a lasting impression). So I think intuition is also very important.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Technique and soul are key elements, and not every guitarist has both in enough amounts to write or play good music.  You also have to be aware of genre limitations, and how far you can go beyond those boundaries and still be "acceptable."

I remember seeing an old Steely Dan video.  For those who don't know, SD is one of the prototypical bands in which there is a small creative core and everyone else is hired guns.  In this case, the guitarist for that particular lineup was clearly talented, but he had no feel for SD's music: his solo- which was technically brilliant- was full of the high-energy blitz of notes typical of metal shredding.

IOW, it was completely out of place in the jazz-pop fusion of Steely Dan.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Lemmy has passed.

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialMotorhead/posts/1107561019276205?fref=nf


----------



## ggroy

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Technique and soul are key elements, and not every guitarist has both in enough amounts to write or play good music.  You also have to be aware of genre limitations, and how far you can go beyond those boundaries and still be "acceptable."




Once after one has mastered technique, the one thing I find which is really important is writing composition.  I never learned how to write properly, other than by trial and error.

The stuff I write may sound like a mindless flash of notes, but it doesn't really keep my attention in terms of likability (ie. catchiness).

I've come to the conclusion there's no easy way to learn songwriting, other than writing a lot of songs and figuring out whether it is catchy or not.  I remember an old interview with Lennon/McCartney where they mentioned that they hardly used the majority of stuff they wrote.  The stuff which ended up on their records, was the extremely good cherry picked stuff.  (I wouldn't be surprised at all if other expert songwriters also don't use most of the stuff they write).

I haven't written enough music to know what's good and catchy.  I don't know of any easy formulas.


----------



## Bedrockgames

ggroy said:


> Once after one has mastered technique, the one thing I find which is really important is writing composition.  I never learned how to write properly, other than by trial and error.
> 
> The stuff I write may sound like a mindless flash of notes, but it doesn't really keep my attention in terms of likability (ie. catchiness).
> 
> I've come to the conclusion there's no easy way to learn songwriting, other than writing a lot of songs and figuring out whether it is catchy or not.  I remember an old interview with Lennon/McCartney where they mentioned that they hardly used the majority of stuff they wrote.  The stuff which ended up on their records, was the extremely good cherry picked stuff.  (I wouldn't be surprised at all if other expert songwriters also don't use most of the stuff they write).
> 
> I haven't written enough music to know what's good and catchy.  I don't know of any easy formulas.




Emulating your heroes can be useful. It has been many years since I seriously wrote music but easing back into it and my experience in the past was that emulation can help a lot when you are first starting. Also music is like other mediums, there are lots of different forms. A pop song has different structure from a thrash metal song or a sonata. Some areas of metal are quite open in that respect. 

I agree that just writing and writing is the way to go. Write a bunch of stuff and put it into a shape you like. Chances are you can rework that material into something better by taking elements or rough ideas from it as you get a better sense of what works. I usually do like three variations on each song before I get where I am comfortable.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I've been playing and composing for many years- alas, not a note of it affixed in any permanent media- and i know there are only a few of the tunes I wrote have stood my own personal test of time.  Only a smattering of them do I still play more than a year post creation.  If they survive a year, they're probably keepers.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Rock the vote!
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/13/asia/...b_homepage_deskrecommended_pool&iref=obinsite


----------



## Herschel

Something about Lemmy's announcement makes me ....suspicious. To me, it sounds like he may have gone the Robin Williams route, not that I don't think he has the right to do so.


----------



## Bedrockgames

Herschel said:


> Something about Lemmy's announcement makes me ....suspicious. To me, it sounds like he may have gone the Robin Williams route, not that I don't think he has the right to do so.




What is making you suspicious about it? All we know is he had cancer and died suddenly in the middle of an activity at home (which isn't uncommon for people undergoing cancer treatment and dealing with the side effects of cancer itself. It is certainly possible suicide happened. But heart attack and stroke are also common among newly diagnosed cancer patients. With aggressive cancers there is a like a 16 fold increase in suicide rates but a 15 fold increase in heart attack/stroke (all within the week of initial diagnosis, usually before treatment begins). He was so sickly leading up to this, my guess is it was likely just a heart attack.


----------



## Herschel

That's also possible. My experience with cancer/leukemia patients is it's usually not sudden in the middle of an activity but when they're too weak to keep going and their system shuts down if it's the cancer itself.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

OTOH, maybe he heard St. Peter had a beer waiting for him at the gates of heaven.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Age & decibels creating more problems for AC/DC
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/08/entertainment/ac-dc-singer-hearing-loss/index.html


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Chritmas time is here, so I bring som metal cheer!

Saw these guys open for L.A. Guns in San Antonio.

...sadly, not anywhere near Christmas.
 [video=youtube;mll3bQsOXRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mll3bQsOXRE&sns=em[/video]

And then...
  [video=youtube;jWKN-EYFxbs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWKN-EYFxbs&sns=em[/video]  

But there's more!
  [video=youtube;C8EahBs-P58]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8EahBs-P58&sns=em[/video]  
  [video=youtube;-Km7_QYpSoo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Km7_QYpSoo&sns=em[/video]  
  [video=youtube;NB2xA9b026k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB2xA9b026k&sns=em[/video]  
  [video=youtube;scqPtonqnH8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scqPtonqnH8&sns=em[/video]  
  [video=youtube;ZELjIqHQlUY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZELjIqHQlUY&sns=em[/video]  
  [video=youtube;dsqC6HRS8Lc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsqC6HRS8Lc&sns=em[/video]  
  [video=youtube;5a5fHMlb4V0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a5fHMlb4V0&sns=em[/video]


----------



## Thunderfoot

Sooooo, it's been a few months since my last post...  (In this thread it was 2015 *whistle*)  And just thought I would pop in and say "hi!"  Mostly I wanted to give all the metalheads a thank you for all the support over the years.  My album project was, alas, a no go.  We have the songs, (the music, lyrics and charts) just not the people to make it a "thing".  It's a shame, I really liked a lot of it.  I have since started playing live again in a classic rock/oldies band just to make some money.  It's not ideal, but it's cash.  

I never had to do the "bar scene" coming up, I went straight from learning my licks to pro...  Having to pay my dues this late in life sucks!  That and I miss my roadies and techs. lol  Lifting my own stuff is the worst.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome back!

I can only empathize.  I never even tried to go pro.  I just compose & play my enjoyment and for my furry fans.  (A.K.A. pets.). An avocation that has probably cost me as much as someone actually trying to go pro and tour, etc.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I’m on board with this.

http://loudwire.com/original-filter-duo-short-bus-sequel/


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Vinnie Paul has died.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/vinnie-paul-co-founder-metal-band-pantera-dies-040315883.html


----------



## Flexor the Mighty!

I was never a huge Pantera fan, much less HellYeah, but VP had a very distinctive sound in Pantera and was influential on a lot of drummers.  RIP.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

A fun article- and comment section- for all kinds of metalheads:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...h_intentionally_wrong_band_names.html#6061794


----------



## haiduk

From the new Haiduk album '_Exomancer_'


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome aboard!

I don’t know about that track...they spent the first 30 seconds of a 2:40 second clip doing essentially the same riff.


----------



## haiduk

Thank you.

Yeah, same intro riff but the drums behind it add variation.

This one has a few more guitar layers:


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Are they an instrumental band?


----------



## haiduk

Vocals are used but very sparingly. The song above only has 4 words.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I thought I heard something, but wasn’t sure.


----------



## haiduk

A new lesson:

'*Death Portent*'

cosmic blackened death metal


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Welcome, fellow metalhead!


----------



## Lanefan

Two fine bands I've yet to see mentioned in this thread at all:

Sabaton - songs about historic wars and battles, told from all points of view in fine metal form.  They're European but I forget wich country they're from (Sweden?).

Lordi - costumed bangers from Finland who won (!) Eurovision 2006, sing about monsters and ghosts mainly (one of their songs directly inspired an adventure I wrote and ran some years back)

Both bands have numerous albums out - 8 I think for Lordi and I'm not sure how many for Sabaton - and both are, as far as I know, still going.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I’ve been listening to more rock than metal these days...at least in terms of the younger bands.  Too many Cookie Monster vox (_still_), too much droptuning to the point of hiding bass players’ skills or lack thereof.


----------



## Nagol

Lanefan said:


> Two fine bands I've yet to see mentioned in this thread at all:
> 
> Sabaton - songs about historic wars and battles, told from all points of view in fine metal form.  They're European but I forget wich country they're from (Sweden?).
> 
> Lordi - costumed bangers from Finland who won (!) Eurovision 2006, sing about monsters and ghosts mainly (one of their songs directly inspired an adventure I wrote and ran some years back)
> 
> Both bands have numerous albums out - 8 I think for Lordi and I'm not sure how many for Sabaton - and both are, as far as I know, still going.




I've become a big Sabaton fan.  It had a large cast change in 2012 and a bit of turnover since then.  The earbook version of Heroes has a stupendous _For Whom the Bell Tolls_ cover.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Lanefan said:


> Two fine bands I've yet to see mentioned in this thread at all:
> 
> Sabaton - songs about historic wars and battles, told from all points of view in fine metal form.  They're European but I forget wich country they're from (Sweden?).
> 
> Lordi - costumed bangers from Finland who won (!) Eurovision 2006, sing about monsters and ghosts mainly (one of their songs directly inspired an adventure I wrote and ran some years back)
> 
> Both bands have numerous albums out - 8 I think for Lordi and I'm not sure how many for Sabaton - and both are, as far as I know, still going.



Seems Sabaton got in a wreck the other day.  Had to cancel at least one show.








						Sabaton involved in a car crash | Sabaton Official Website
					

Two days ago in Tunisia we were involved in a serious traffic incident upon our return from a video shoot in the Sahara desert. We are all broken, badly beaten, bleeding and stitched up, but happy to be alive and confident that we will be fully recovered over time. However, after consulting...




					www.sabaton.net
				




Brightside: maybe they get a song out of it, a la Deep Purple & “Smoke on the Water”.


----------



## Ulfgeir

Don't forget groups like Girlschool for the old typically British Heavy Metal sound..


----------



## Bohandas

Does GWAR count as oldschool? They definitely don't have the classic metal sound but they've been around for 30 years and so their early stuff is oldschool in that sense.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

They’re a great band, but I wouldn’t count them as old school, personally.  To me, that term should be reserved for bands that follow the sonic blueprint of Black Sabbath and other pre-NWOBHM bands.

I might be convinced to add NWOBHM bands to the “old school” group, though, given how much metal changed _after_ them.


----------



## Bohandas

Yeah, GWAR generally don't have a classic metal sound, but I'd be very much surprised if they didn't have at least one song that did have it, since they seem to dabble in many different metal subgenres (just off the top of my head there's thrash, surf metal, melodic death metal, and whatever genre "Think You Oughta Know This" was (horrorcore?))


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I’d say most was some kind of thrash, and I’d count them among the 1st or 2nd generation of horrorcore...albeit COMEDIC, of course.


----------



## Eyes of Nine

At some point I'll have to read through this entire thread. Assuming though that at some point Probot has been brought up? Dave Grohl covered the _styles_ of so many bands of my youth like Celtic Frost, Voivod, DRI. Not sure if anyone else has done a project quite like it...

Sepultura-esque video


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

IDK, but if Probot got mentioned anywhere on ENWorld, it was probably here!

Dave Grohl: The Man.  The Legend.  No myth.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ningen Isu: an old Japanese metal band that’s new to me!





__





						Ningen Isu - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Also from Japan, Ironbunny!


----------



## Ulfgeir

Did a reread of this whole thread, and one thing that came to my mind after a discussion with a friend earlier; In Sweden we had a movement in the late 60's / early 70's called Progg (that should not be confused with the progressive rock from the UK and US). This movement here in Sweden went *far left* politically, whereas in other places it was more psychadelia. And when I say far left, I mean communist-types of left protesting what they though wwere a capitalist society (and we had at that time had a socialist democratic goverment for ages, and they were not considered leftish enough by these artists)...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz




----------



## Luminous

Nyaricus said:


> Marilyn Manson, etc.



You are awesome.


----------



## R_J_K75

Two bands that arent old school or even "metal" but are relatively newer are Bigelf and Kyng.  

Bigelf is more prog-based but has alot of Sabbath, & Floyd influence without being contrived.  They started in the 90's but didnt get much traction until the 2000s.  Think they've disbanded sadly.  Their CDs arent easy to find, but if you want to check them out I suggest starting with "Hex" circa 2002-2003 maybe.  Saw them in a very small theater in 2009 or 2010 and they were awesome.  

Kyng have 3 CD's out, all are good but their first "Trampled Sun" is their best IMO.  They are doom/stoner metal with a Soundgarden bent, think they started around 2010.  Again one of those bands that wear their influences on their sleeve without sounding like a direct ripoff.  

I personally don't like categorizing music too much, I just look at it as good and I like it or it suck and I don't.  Most musicians either hate the genre label they been given by the media and consuming public and when asked to classify their music will just say we tried to make the music we like and the best music we could at the time.


----------



## Eyes of Nine

My son's been trying to get me into Gojira and Dillinger Escape Plan... Thoughts?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I’m a huge fan of Gojira.


----------



## R_J_K75

I have a friend I grew up with in Buffalo that played in alot of local bands.  One, STEMM started getting popular along with Chimera in the early 2000s.  Damageplan, Stemm and Chimera played a show in Buffalo Dec 7, 2004 and all three bands went and partied at the casino in Niagara Falls after.  I remember my friend telling me how surreal it was to meet and hang out with Dime & Vinnie only to find out Dime was murdered the next day.  He said it was just a testament to how cool and humble those guys were to take out a couple of young band partying as peers and not thinking they were any better. Hard to believe its been 16 years since Dimes been gone and 40 for John Lennon.


----------



## Zardnaar

I like some of the new metal bands coming out of Europe in the last 20 odd years.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Who else am I listening to?

Lacuna Coil is pretty consistent.  Opeth has been growing on me.  Baroness, Pelican.

Hex is a pretty good industrial band, but I don’t know that they’re together anymore.


----------



## R_J_K75

The end is great.


----------



## R_J_K75

This is what Im listening to.  Antemasgue, Its the Mars Volta but they disbanded the Mars Volta and reformed the same band.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

R_J_K75 said:


> This is what Im listening to.  Antemasgue, Its the Mars Volta but they disbanded the Mars Volta and reformed the same band.



I didn’t know they re-formed!


----------



## R_J_K75

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I didn’t know they re-formed!



They didnt!  Just started a new band, Cendric and Omar.

I saw them before their last CD...Noq...I cant spell it.  We bought tickets under the guise of it being a Rodriguez show and last minute they announced on the radio...Its a Mars Volta show.  They demoed the last CD live...it was great.


----------



## R_J_K75

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I didn’t know they re-formed!



Sorry.  The MV is in hiatus.  They formed a new band.  Antemasque.  Great ******* CD.  That was a one and done.  Still waiting on Cedrics solo CD.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I thought these guys did a good job...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

A bit of fun I just found:


----------



## Bohandas

I know this thread is more oriented toward classic metal, but can anybody explain to me why death metal lyrics cause so much controversy when they're completely unintelligible? Like Cannibal Corpse, they claim to be saying all sorts of shocking things, but for all anybody knows they could be singing the lyrics to Louie Louie. Are there really people out there who can understand their singing?


----------



## Eyes of Nine

Bohandas said:


> I know this thread is more oriented toward classic metal, but can anybody explain to me why death metal lyrics cause so much controversy when they're completely unintelligible? Like Cannibal Corpse, they claim to be saying all sorts of shocking things, but for all anybody knows they could be singing the lyrics to Louie Louie. Are there really people out there who can understand their singing?



Yes, the guitar player in the band. Needs to know when their solo is coming up...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Bohandas said:


> I know this thread is more oriented toward classic metal, but can anybody explain to me why death metal lyrics cause so much controversy when they're completely unintelligible? Like Cannibal Corpse, they claim to be saying all sorts of shocking things, but for all anybody knows they could be singing the lyrics to Louie Louie. Are there really people out there who can understand their singing?



Supposedly.  I guess.

I was never a fan, so I tuned the genre out early on.


----------



## reelo

Bohandas said:


> I know this thread is more oriented toward classic metal, but can anybody explain to me why death metal lyrics cause so much controversy when they're completely unintelligible? Like Cannibal Corpse, they claim to be saying all sorts of shocking things, but for all anybody knows they could be singing the lyrics to Louie Louie. Are there really people out there who can understand their singing?



Hey, Chris Barnes, the original singer, used to grunt quite unintelligibly, but George "Corpsegrinder" Fisher isn't too hard to understand.

As for the lyrical content of CC, they're the musical equivalent of slasher- and gore-movies. Bad taste, good fun, very tongue in cheek.


----------



## Bohandas

reelo said:


> As for the lyrical content of CC, they're the musical equivalent of slasher- and gore-movies. Bad taste, good fun, very tongue in cheek.




I'm familiar with their lyrics from lyric lookup sites like Genius.com, but in the actual songs I can't make out one word of what they claim to be singing, even if I'm reading along as they're singing. It's basically like the whole song is naturally a radio edit because the gory verbal imagery is every bit as inaudible as it would be if it were simply beeped out entirely.


And it's annoying because most metal bands with these kind of lyrics seem to also be unintelligible like this because they gravotate toward death metal which in turn gravitates towards this kind of unintelligibility.

Can anyone recommend a band that has Cannibal Corpse-esque lyrics but crystal clear vocals?


----------



## haiduk

From the new Haiduk album _Diabolica_


----------



## Zardnaar

Where does The Cult fit in? Old skool or something else?


 Quite like this song and didn't discover it to around 1996. 

 Came out more or less the same time as grunge. Oops.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I’d consider The Cult to be a (great) hard rock band, right on the edge of old-school metal, with a good dose of goth thrown in.

I never got to see them, but actually HEARD most of an arena show they did in San Antonio* while I was sitting on a walkway between two dormitories, with bats flying overhead. By a trick of acoustics, it couldn’t be heard on most of the campus.



* sometime in the fall of 87, 88, or 89.


----------



## Zardnaar

As a kid I got them and The Cure mixed up. Wasn't familiar with either one.


----------



## Herschel

The easiest way to keep them separate these days is by guitarists since both singers are pasty, aged Grecian Formula aficionados. Reeves Gabrels with The Cure looks like your car salesman uncle while often playing slightly quirky-looking Reverend axes while The Cult's British biker bartender Billy Duffy can take a big, hollow-body Gretsch that feels like someone put six strings on a bathtub, sling it mid-thigh and manage to still look cool.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Herschel said:


> The easiest way to keep them separate these days is by guitarists since both singers are pasty, aged Grecian Formula aficionados. Reeves Gabrels with The Cure looks like your car salesman uncle while often playing slightly quirky-looking Reverend axes while The Cult's British biker bartender Billy Duffy can take a big, hollow-body Gretsch that feels like someone put six strings on a bathtub, sling it mid-thigh and manage to still look cool.



Also, there has only ever been Billy Duffy slinging a 6-string for The Cult.  The Cure has had several guitarists over the years.


----------



## Herschel

Too true.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

BTW, @Zardnaar , don’t be too self conscious about the confusion.  I kept confusing Bob Seeger and Eric Clapton for YEARS.


----------



## Zardnaar

Dannyalcatraz said:


> BTW, @Zardnaar , don’t be too self conscious about the confusion.  I kept confusing Bob Seeger and Eric Clapton for YEARS.




 Beyond the big hits on the radio I didn't know much. Think I was 9 when I started listening to music with my first albums aged 10. 

  Took a few more years to really get into under my own initiative.


----------



## Thunderfoot

OMG.  I finally made it home...  
So', a lot has happened over the years I've been gone.  I'm no longer married, she left after 31 years in the middle of the COVID lockdown.  I'm playing drums and singing almost weekly in a classic rock band and currently have a session recording gig in Nashville.  I hope this is the start of me being able to post more often.  But its nice to see so many familiar faces are still here.

Love to you all.
Thunderfoot


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Been listening to the postumly released videos from Static X.

I’m told the new vocalist (Ethan Dope?) sounds a bit like Wayne Static so I’m not sure which parts are Wayne’s last recordings and which Dope is doing.


----------



## Zardnaar

And then you remember you heard Static X 20+ years ago. Nirvana was 30 years ago.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Back to work... The Cult is definitely born out of old metal.  They were around long before they hit it big and opened for many AOR acts in the late 80s.  Fire Woman was the hit that launched them to fame which was in the same vein as Gn'R.  New but not quiet grunge.  Stripped down but not naked and left wanting.  They were part of the last true metal warriors of the 80s that were able to eek out an existence through grunge.  Not many acts were able to do that.


Huh  I see another chapter in the works...


----------



## Ryujin

Just dropping by with this early '80s memory. I would occasionally see this gorgeous, tiny (about 5'-nothing) creature around our local shopping mall, the Bramalea City Centre. Later in life she started singing Torch Songs and showed that she actually had one hell of a voice.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz




----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


>



Notice how they didn't have a real drummer?? Lol.  That sound just doesn't exist in home studios. I know, I've tried.


----------



## Deset Gled

It looks like Jethro Tull just dropped a new album. I'm watching the new music vids on YouTube now, and am enjoying it more than I expected.


----------



## Mad_Jack

I've been a fan of folk metal for quite a while now, and ever since discovering the HU I've been interested in finding new bands from different countries you don't normally think of as having metal bands.
I just recently discovered *Bloodywood*. They're a Hindu folk metal band with sort of a nu-metal Rage Against the Machine vibe... (Their self-produced documentary is actually called "Raj Against the Machine", lol) 
They're all about a positive message and calling out negative crap, everything from bullying to government corruption, and are heavily involved in charity work. Despite not being signed to a label, they just put out their first full-length album.
It's pretty good stuff.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

In terms of message, they remind me of POD.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

In January 2020, it was announced the Unlocking The Truth had ended and frontman Malcolm Brickhouse would be pursuing a solo career under the moniker Malxolm Brixkhouse.  Here’s a taste of early UTT:


And later stuff:


----------



## Eyes of Nine

Dannyalcatraz said:


> In January 2020, it was announced the Unlocking The Truth had ended and frontman Malcolm Brickhouse would be pursuing a solo career under the moniker Malxolm Brixkhouse.  Here’s a taste of early UTT:
> 
> 
> And later stuff:



I like how in the first video, clearly the videographer (a parent? Friend?) was rocking along to the music, the camera was bouncing subtly...


----------



## Mad_Jack

Posted these guys in the thread about Black musicians, but I figured I'd put it here as well...

Since the early 2000's there's been a pretty fast-growing metal scene in Africa.

This is ARKA'N, from Togo. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any translations of the Ewe-language lyrics.





Side Note:  Somehow, looking up facts about this band led to me discovering the existence of an all-female Deep Purple tribute band from Europe called Strange Kind of Women, lol.
Gotta love them random rabbit holes you fall down when you get on the internet...


----------



## Thunderfoot

Stevie T. has been doing a whole series on Metal from different countries on his YouTube channel.  Bloodywood was the first band, Voice of Boceprot is pretty good (Danny you're gonna love the solo).  But I highly suggest you check them out.


----------



## Eyes of Nine

Thunderfoot said:


> Stevie T. has been doing a whole series on Metal from different countries on his YouTube channel.  Bloodywood was the first band, Voice of Boceprot is pretty good (Danny you're gonna love the solo).  But I highly suggest you check them out.



Thank you!


----------



## Mad_Jack

VoB is awesome - when's the last time you heard deep social commentary metal that could also be the big inspirational song in a Disney movie? Those girls need to be the next Disney princess, lol.


----------



## Thunderfoot

Mad_Jack said:


> VoB is awesome - when's the last time you heard deep social commentary metal that could also be the big inspirational song in a Disney movie? Those girls need to be the next Disney princess, lol.



And the fact that they are a female positive Islamic group.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The kids are alright by me!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The first afrometal band I heard was Skinflint.  They’re a trio.

Wrust is another Botswanan metal band, and they’ve toured with Skinflint.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Someone just put this French psychedelic metal band on my radar a couple days ago.  Me likey!


----------



## Ryujin

For your Metal School experience, might I suggest the movie "Metal Lords" on NetFlix? I appreciate that they didn't take the usual high school romance narrative route too. (You'll know it when you see it.)


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> For your Metal School experience, might I suggest the movie "Metal Lords" on NetFlix? I appreciate that they didn't take the usual high school romance narrative route too. (You'll know it when you see it.)



I’m not on Netflix, but I’m still curious.  What’s it about?


----------



## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I’m not on Netflix, but I’m still curious.  What’s it about?



A couple of high school kids decide to put together a Metal band. They want to get into the Battle of the Bands but need a bass guitar player, since a two man group just doesn't fly. Introduce new (Scottish?) girl in school who plays the cello. Despite pretty much being YA fare, I very much enjoyed it.

_EDIT_ - Hopefully this trailer isn't region locked:


----------



## Ulfgeir

Have been listening to the band The Warning a lot lately.  3 sisters from Monterrey in Mexico.

They got their big breakthrough with this cover  (the basist was 9, the drummer 12, and the singer 14 when they did this):

And it impressed Metallica enough that they got to do an official cover on the anniversary-album for the Black Album.
So here is one of their own songs from their latest CD..   They hopefully have a long career in front of them, since they are so good.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

New band!

You may have heard of Killer Dwarfs, but are you ready for…GNOME!?!


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Dannyalcatraz said:


> New band!
> 
> You may have heard of Killer Dwarfs, but are you ready for…GNOME!?!


----------



## Thunderfoot

Dannyalcatraz said:


> New band!
> 
> You may have heard of Killer Dwarfs, but are you ready for…GNOME!?!



I LOVED me some KillerDwarfs.  Especially liked it when they all used the last name Dwarf on the first album.   Russ was what, 4' 11", 5' ?  Made Ronnie James Dio look tall.  Their music videos were always fun to watch on Headbanger's Ball at 1 am on MTV.  You know, when they actually played music videos..


----------



## Mad_Jack

Dannyalcatraz said:


> New band!
> 
> You may have heard of Killer Dwarfs,




 Mentioning dwarfs made me have to go listen to Wind Rose's metal version of Diggy Diggy Hole...


----------



## haiduk




----------



## Bohandas

I've encountered a lot of instances where non metal songs have been covered as metal songs, are there any bands that do this the other way around and record non-metal covers of metal songs? In particular, is there anyone who does non-metal covers of death metal and grindcore songs? I can't hear a single word of _Eaten Back to Life_ or _It Just Gets Worse_ or any other albums like that, and I feel that the songs on these albums would work better as pop or lounge music or possibly beat poetry


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Bohandas said:


> I've encountered a lot of instances where non metal songs have been covered as metal songs, are there any bands that do this the other way around and record non-metal covers of metal songs? In particular, is there anyone who does non-metal covers of death metal and grindcore songs? I can't hear a single word of _Eaten Back to Life_ or _It Just Gets Worse_ or any other albums like that, and I feel that the songs on these albums would work better as pop or lounge music or possibly beat poetry



I don’t know of anyone doing that with grindcore or death metal music, sorry.

But there’s definitely some quality non-metal covers of metal tubes out there.  Alex Skolnick (Testament) has a jazz trio that does original jazz music and covers of metal tunes.

Rodrigo y Gabriela started off as members of a metal band, then found success as an acoustic/flamenco duo.  They often cover metal tunes.  They’ve also appeared with Alex Skolinick for concerts.

Postmodern Jukebox does retro style (40s and earlier) covers of a variety of music, including metal tunes.

Brass Against has done at least one metal cover-Tool’s “The Pot”.

There’s a bunch of YouTube videos of “Trve Kvlt” instrumental surf guitar music versions of dozens of metal songs.  They were done with the conceit of these tunes being done back in the 50s-60s, according to the video information.


----------



## Bedrockgames

I got into metal in junior high school and discovered doom metal in my early years of high school (I had gotten into Death Metal, and liked the guitar but never really got too into he growl, so doom was an appealing alternative for me). Candlemass the first I heard of doom, and I loved them, but the two bands that really resonated with me early on were Cathedral: 


And Solitude Aeturnus: 


The harmonies they used on power chords were something I ether hadn't heard or noticed before (those harmonies definitely show up elsewhere but I just never heard them used that way or that low). It introduced a whole new way of playing music to me. And the themes were also of more interest to me. 

WIth Cathedral, if you haven't heard them, I really recommend that first album "Forest Equilibrium". I hadn't heard an album that slow and weighty before (I wasn't as into their movie into faster, funkier stuff after the Soul Sacrifice EP, but I also understand they made their point with this one going about as slow as you reasonably can without getting dull). The big Solitude Aeturnus album for me was Beyond the Crimson Horizon. This lead me down the rabbit whole of finding older doom bands like Saint Vitus.


----------



## Ryujin

Bohandas said:


> I've encountered a lot of instances where non metal songs have been covered as metal songs, are there any bands that do this the other way around and record non-metal covers of metal songs? In particular, is there anyone who does non-metal covers of death metal and grindcore songs? I can't hear a single word of _Eaten Back to Life_ or _It Just Gets Worse_ or any other albums like that, and I feel that the songs on these albums would work better as pop or lounge music or possibly beat poetry



This is the first thing that came to mind, when I read your question. For some reason I'm drawing a blank on the group that Puddles has done some collaberations with who do Jazz covers of various songs. Maybe someone else will remember?

_EDIT_ - Just remembered; Postmodern Jukebox is the group.


----------



## Bedrockgames

Ryujin said:


> Just dropping by with this early '80s memory. I would occasionally see this gorgeous, tiny (about 5'-nothing) creature around our local shopping mall, the Bramalea City Centre. Later in life she started singing Torch Songs and showed that she actually had one hell of a voice.




Sabina Classen of Holy Moses was another great 80s female vocalist (she had a pretty interesting style too; I don't recall many female singers using this type of vocals back them: might just not have encountered them):


----------



## Eyes of Nine

Bohandas said:


> I've encountered a lot of instances where non metal songs have been covered as metal songs, are there any bands that do this the other way around and record non-metal covers of metal songs? In particular, is there anyone who does non-metal covers of death metal and grindcore songs? I can't hear a single word of _Eaten Back to Life_ or _It Just Gets Worse_ or any other albums like that, and I feel that the songs on these albums would work better as pop or lounge music or possibly beat poetry



Is Apocalyptica still metal, just in cello?


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## Dannyalcatraz

Eyes of Nine said:


> Is Apocalyptica still metal, just in cello?



At the very least, metal covers by not metal bands.  See also 2 Cellos:


And here’s the link to a search for the Trve Kvlt Surf music I meant to post earlier, but forgot.



			https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trve+kvlt+surf+music


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## Bohandas

I found a bit of what I was after. Somebody asked a similar question on reddit and it pointed me to this and this which are EXACTLY what I was looking for




edit:


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## Mad_Jack

This is the symphonic metal super-group *Exit Eden*, who put out a single album called _Rhapsodies in Black_ back in 2017.
The purpose of the album was to do metal covers of pop songs.   
(Apparently, the videos for the songs are supposed to tell a story when all viewed in the right order...)

Between them, Amanda Somerville, Clémentine Delauney, and Marina La Torraca have sung with bands/shows such as  Avantasia, Epica, Archenemy, Melted Space, Trillium, Kamelot, Phantom Elite, Visions of Atlantis, and Serenity. Anna Brunner is the relative newcomer in the group.

"Paparazzi" by lady Gaga, "Frozen" by Madonna, "Incomplete" by The Backstreet Boys, and "Unfaithful" by Rihanna


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## Bohandas

The Heart Sutra set to a thrash metal beat


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## Dannyalcatraz

It’s not bad, but the vocalist’s higher notes sound almost like a Theremin in the context of the rest of the song.


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## Ryujin

Just because I was reminded of it, when it turned up on a Discord channel.


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## Bohandas

Ryujin said:


> Just because I was reminded of it, when it turned up on a Discord channel.




Reminds me a little bit of the One Hundred song from Aqua Teen Hunger Force


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