# Any viable halfling fighter builds?



## Gnome (Feb 23, 2005)

I'm just curious if there's any way to make a halfling fighter be worthwhile compared to any of the medium races.  I'm guessing no based on their strength penalty and the decreased weapon damage for small weapons, though.

It seems like the only advantage the halfling would have would be with thrown weapons: the +1 from size, dex, and thrown weapons would all combine here.  It wouldn't matter if all of his attacks hit, however, if the damage was always pathetic.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has ever played a halfling fighter, or is creative enough to come up with a build that's workable.


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## Gnome (Feb 23, 2005)

Oh, and gnome ideas are also welcome, but this seems even more unlikely.  The CON boost is nice for living longer, but they have the same problems with size and strength, without the advantages with DEX and thrown weapons.

Also, it's irritating that they have weapon familiarity with a weapon that would be much more useful for a larger creature (with the tripping ability).


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## Thanee (Feb 23, 2005)

One obvious build is the mounted halfling fighter. Small enough to use the mount on most occasions, unlike a medium-sized rider with a large mount.

As for thrown weapons, there is the Invisible Blade PrC, which is pretty good, IIRC.

A fighter 4 / rogue X also makes a rather formidable "fighter", using two-weapon fighting, of course.

Bye
Thanee


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## Aust Diamondew (Feb 23, 2005)

To make a good halfling throwing weapon guy you could take levels of halfling paragon (Unearthed Arcanan, 2 levels gives +2 to damage roles with throwing weapons and slings and at level 3 you get +2 Dex) and levels of fighter and maybe a little bit of rogue.

The -2 Str doesn't hurt too bad (the size bonus to attacks counter attacks the strenght penalty to attacks).  What really compunds the damage issue is their smaller size.

I recently played a halfing Bard/Barbarian.  He wasn't as good as the fighter but was good enough.  He used a falchion and guisarme and mostly did melee combat.  He would have been probably quite a bit more powerful if he weren't a halfling (or a barb for that matter )


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## punkorange (Feb 23, 2005)

For what it's worth I had a halfling barbarian once that dual wielded throwing axes as hand axes, and he had them strapped all over his body so he could throw one and quick draw another.  He was a fun character, but I don't remember his stats or anything.

"I come from a tribe of small people!" he would always say.


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## Ridley's Cohort (Feb 23, 2005)

Gnome said:
			
		

> I'm just curious if there's any way to make a halfling fighter be worthwhile compared to any of the medium races.  I'm guessing no based on their strength penalty and the decreased weapon damage for small weapons, though.
> 
> It seems like the only advantage the halfling would have would be with thrown weapons: the +1 from size, dex, and thrown weapons would all combine here.  It wouldn't matter if all of his attacks hit, however, if the damage was always pathetic.




There was a very clever build for a Finessed Power Attacking Spiked Chain wielding Halfling Fighter presented on these boards.

The idea is to convert the to hit bonus into bonus damage at 2 for 1 with the 2-handed weapon (+ Power Attack).  It works because you have a very high net to hit due to high Dex (+ Weapon Finesse) and the +1 mod for size.

Surprisingly enough, the expected average damage is slightly higher than a similar styled Human.  And because of Size and high Dex, your AC is a couple notches higher.

I think it could work well in a Fighter/Swashbuckler multiclass.

The downside: You are small.  So you are never going to get the mileage out of Trip that the Human will get out of the Spiked Chain.

What really amazed me is the build works even with modest point buy stat generation in spite of having to buy a 15 Str in order to have a race modified 13 Str for Power Attack.


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## Gaiden (Feb 23, 2005)

Actually, IIRC, the small races in the PHB are at quite an advanatage from a balance perspective:  normally the bonus from increasing from small to medium is a +4 str, -2 dex meaning that the converse ought to be a -4 str, not a -2.  The halfling can have the highest attack bonus of all the races at 1st level with throwing weapons:  +1 from dex boost, +1 for size, +1 with throwing weapons, +1 (fighter BAB), +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Point Blank Shot.  That's +6 without taking rolled dex into account.  If you put your highest stat and for argument's sake, let's say it was an 18, you'd have +10 to hit with throwing weapons at 1st level.  The only draw back then is damage potential with the reduced base damage from using smaller weapons and your str penalty.  You can't offset low damage with Power Attack (because they are throwing weapons), monkey grip isn't really worth it (the -2 offsets the size and throwing weapon bonus, and the increase in damage is not significant (only 1d4 to 1d6 or 1d6 to 1d8).  So, you have three options it seems to me:  go with feats:  Weapon Specialization, GWS, and exotic weapon proficiencies to get dire weapons or heavy weapons (AU, and FRCS respectively); go with ranger and focus on your favored enemy damage and take extra favored enemy and the feats that increase damage to your favored enemies; or get sneak attack damage.  Of the three, I think the last has the greatest damage potential.  Invisible blade would seem the obvious choice giving you +3d6 sneak attack dmg at full BAB.

There is one other option to consider:  instead of trying to increase damage (or in addition to) you could try and increase your number of attacks.  They have the same net outcome.  You could go for rapid shot, manyshot, improved rapid shot, expert tactician (not sure if that works for ranged attacks), halfling skip rocks, etc.

For a viable halfling fighter I'd say you need three things:  increased movement, increased damage, and versatility between ranged and melee attacks.

You could go with something like: Ranger 7, Fighter 8, Halfling Outrider 5, 

feats:  mounted combat, mounted archery, point blank shot, far shot, rapid shot, many shot, improved rapid shot, weapon focus, weapon specialization, weapon finesse,  exotic weapon proficiency - halfling skiprock, precise shot, greater weapon focus, extra favored enemy.  You'd be looking at potentially 10 attacks, would have great movement options, and if you got the right kind of skiprock (returning with energy enhancements) would not have too much problems with damage.  Certainly this is not the most powerful build - no one ever thought that the outrider was broken to be sure.  But go get yourself a cheetah mount, and it could be quite cool.


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## Lasher Dragon (Feb 23, 2005)

I'm currently playing a strongheart halfling rogue 5/ranger 5 that is just nasty in combat. With rapidshot, point blank, far shot, two-weapon fighting, and some other feats I can't remember off-hand, he is doing insane damage. Of course, in the games I play in, DMs allow ranged attackers to receive flank if someone is in melee on the other side of the enemy, so that makes a huuuuge difference. The +1 keen mighty composite +2 shortbow is my main weapon. Also, both my melee weapons (pick & light hammer) have the Harmony special quality from Arms & Equipment - gives +4 when flanking instead of the usual +2. I took undead as favored enemy twice I think.


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## Jdvn1 (Feb 23, 2005)

I've been wanting to see a build with a Gnome with a Gnomed Hooked Hammer.  TWF Gnome, seems like it could be cool.


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## The Souljourner (Feb 23, 2005)

The key to being a small fighter-type is to make sure you get 14 strength.  Don't try to go weapon finesse with huge dex and minimal strength, it just doesn't work.  you can hit well, but no one cares because you can't actually do any damage.

Unless you tweak out the spiked chain cheese, you won't be rivalling the two handed sword fighter, but you'll still do reasonably good damage.  And a mounted halfling fighter can pack quite a wallop with a lance.  Doing 3-4 times normal damage really helps the ol' average damage.

Mostly, you have to play one because you think it'll be fun to be a small guy who can kick big ass.  I've wanted to play one for a long time, and hopefully will get to sometime in the future.

-The Souljourner


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## Ridley's Cohort (Feb 23, 2005)

I think a Halfling Druid/Fighter mounted on a War Dog AC could be fun.  Gets you enough feats for the Spirited Charge in a timely manner.  Druid gives your buddy added staying power.


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## Cyberzombie (Feb 23, 2005)

Here's what you do.  1st level, you take Stealthy as your regular feat, and Weapon Focus/Greataxe as your fighter feat.  

In 3.5, halfling thrown weapons do an insignificant amount of damage, so don't bother.  Oh, sure, if your DM lets you use some of the prestige classes from Complete Warrior, you will suck less, but you'll still be doing a d3 damage.  Wheee.  However, a halfling fighter still does a d10 with a greataxe and, since your'e going to put AT LEAST a 16 (converted to 14) on Strength, that gives 1d10+3 damage, which is nothing to sneeze at.

The halfling's natural abilities, the Stealthy feat, ranks in Hide and Move Silently (if you can afford them -- a high Int is good for this build, if you can swing it), plus the studded leather or chain shirt you are wearing means that YOU choose who you will fight.  Trust me on this -- I've played in an all-halfling party before and, if you don't want to fight someone, you generally don't have to.

Better yet, especially since you're a halfling, take your 1st level as a rogue, then go on with fighter.  That way your 1st level feat can be Improved Initiative, instead.  Not to mention the +1d6 sneak attack that you're going to get more often than most characters.  Not huge, but it helps make your great axe even more disgusting than it already is.


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## kjenks (Feb 23, 2005)

Stoutheart Halfling (extra feat at level 1)

Str (as high as you can, 12 minimum)
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha (whatever's left)

Put level bumps at 4, 8 into Str
Buy Periapt of Wisdom, Belt of Giant Strength when able.

Barbarian/Fighter/Druid

1: Bbn1 Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack
2: Drd1 - Select wolf as animal companion
3: Drd2 Spirited Charge
4: Drd3
5: Drd4 - Can select dire bat or advanced wolf
6: Ftr1 Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush
7: Ftr2 Shock Trooper (from Complete Warrior)
(Druid the rest of the way up.)

Max out Ride skill, at least 5 ranks in Handle Animal, the rest in Concentration then Listen.

Use Shock Trooper/Heedless Charge for a mounted lance charge/Ride-by Attack of about +13 attack, 3d8 + 51 damage.

Can select a Dire Bat animal companion instead of the advanced wolf.

Can share spells (Longstrider, Bull's Strength, Cure) with mount.

If you can start at a higher level or if you can rebuild the character later on, drop the fighter levels in favor of more druid levels. You only need the fighter levels for the extra feats and the slight boost in BAB. You might be able to dump the barbarian level for druid and pick up Martial Weapon Proficiency (Lance) at level 3.

Or you can skip the lance an just go with Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatclub) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Maul) then use Spikes to increase your damage. (Maul is from Complete Warrior, 1d8 bludgeoning, 20/x3 crit, which changes to 19-20/x3 with the Spikes spell.) Spirited Charge/double damage with a Spikes-coated maul is almost as good as triple damage with a lance. (If you're short on feats, just use a quarterstaff. It's not as good as a maul, but you're already proficient.)

Ideally, by level 12, you'd be druid all the way, with no loss in caster level or animal companion advancement. This gives you a great spell selection and some serious hitting power on mounted charge attacks. 

Having druid levels in the mix avoids some of the biggest limitations of mounted combat characters since you have a sturdy mount that advances with you and you can summon a critter at any time if (for some reason) your chosen mount can't be used.


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## Deset Gled (Feb 23, 2005)

One great way to overcome the problem of small damage with small fighters is to use Wounding weapons.  This can be devastating with TWF, as you do Con damage instead of direct HP damage.

Another way to make a small character a melee character is to make them a druid, and do battle in Wildshaped form.  This build can be boosted by using the Warshaper PrC from CW.

There are a good number of other prestige classes that can help a small fighter immensly.  Among them are:

Dragon Disciple - Taking one level of Sorcerer and entering this PrC will give you nice bonuses to Str, natural armor, and give you access to Enlarge Person a couple of times a day.  The downsides are that it takes a few levels of investments to get all the bonuses, and you take a hit in BAB.

Bear Warrior - The PrC gives you access to bear forms that are not limited by your size and give you new physical stats.  Bonus points for the sheer coolness of seeing a pint-sized character flip out and turn into a huge, raging bear.  The downside to this build is that you won't be very effective without raging.

Drunken Master - Drinking to increase strength can help damage a lot.

Gnome Giant Slayer - Duh.

Halfling Outrider - Double Duh.


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## IcyCool (Feb 23, 2005)

Gnome said:
			
		

> Oh, and gnome ideas are also welcome, but this seems even more unlikely.  The CON boost is nice for living longer, but they have the same problems with size and strength, without the advantages with DEX and thrown weapons.




Check the link to Gorefoot in my sig.  Nothin' says luvin' like a screaming Gnome barbarian.  Could I hit harder as a medium sizer?  You bet, but not by much.  I'm playing a variation of him in a tabletop game, and the DM has decided to allow me to branch into Frenzied Berserker at 9th.  At that point, the difference in damage is moot. 

For reference purposes, Gorefoot uses a small sized greatsword.  With his 16 Str (yes, I bought an 18), he's dishing out 1d10+4 on each strike, 1d10+7 when raging.  A human with the same setup would be doing 2d6+6 on each strike, 2d6+9 when raging.  So Gorefoot is lagging about 4 points of average damage behind.  But he still hits like a jackhammer.  Also, he's harder to hit and the CON boost means he has more hitpoints than an equivalent medium sizer, aside from a dwarf.


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## argo (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm of the opinion that once you pass level 8 or so any good fighter build is viable as a small-sized (halfling/gnome) build.  The average damage for small weapons is usually only 1 point behind their medium counterpart.  This hurts at low levels but once you hit mid-levels and up your base damage die becomes less important than your other damage bonuses (espically weapon specilaziation and power attack).  Compared to a human a halfling comes out at +0 to hit (the size bonus balances the Str penalty) and -2 to damage (one for wapon, one for Str) but with a +2 AC.  The saving throw bonus is nice for a fighter and so is the bonus with thrown weapons.  Their other disadvantage is their size penalty to trip/grapple/etc and their slow speed.  The size penalty is a real killer, the Close Quarters Fighting feat can help ofset that some for grapples but mostly it is just going to be your achieles heel.  You can take care of the speed penalty with a level of Barbarian, besides rage never hurts and there is nothing funnier than a raging halfling!  "Oh my god he bites!  Get it off me! Get it off me!"


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## John Q. Mayhem (Feb 24, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Of course, in the games I play in, DMs allow ranged attackers to receive flank if someone is in melee on the other side of the enemy, so that makes a huuuuge difference.




I did this in the first game I ran.

NEVER AGAIN! It does NOT work with a rogue in the party.


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## Gnome (Feb 24, 2005)

Thanks everyone.  There were a lot of cool (and funny) ideas in this thread.


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## Wish (Feb 24, 2005)

I just put together a build, and extrapolated it to 16th level just to see what it might look like if I actually decided to play the character.  It was nearly straight fighter (I think I ended up with ftr 12/knight protector 3/exotic weapon master 1).

It starts out with 28 point buy: Str 14 (10 pts), Dex 10 (0 points), Con 16 (10 points), Int 14 (6 points), Wis 10 (2 points), Cha 8 (0 points).  Alternately, Dex 14 and Con 14.  Alternate two, Dex 12, Con 14, Wis 12.

All level based points go into Strength.

Feats - Exotic Weapon Focus - Bastard Sword (or dwarven waraxe, or one of the similar weapons from CW), Power Attack.

Start off fighting sword and board style, move to two hands on the weapon at higher levels when you get an animated shield.  Use heavy armor (mithral, preferably, if you go the dex route).

Along the way, pick up your focuses and specializations, the cleaves, and mounted combat.  You'll have a few feats left over to play with.  You can opt for Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise for a terrific AC, or if you opted to put points into Dex you can go with the Dodge/Mobility/Elusive Target feat tree.  If you drop a handful of your weapon specific feats (probably improved crit and greater wpn. spec), you can do both and be a real defensive monster.

Knight Protector gets you nice Will saves (good will and free Iron Will feat) and Supreme Cleave, while Exotic Weapon Master gets you Uncanny Blow (double your str. bonus to damage with that exotic weapon you've got).

Eventually, have attacks of around +25 to +30 with an AC in the mid to high 30s and damage of around 1d8+10 to +18, depending on the availability of magic in your campaign.  Your saves will be around Fort +14, Ref +5, and Will +11 without accounting for any magic or stat boost items.


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## WarRabbit (Feb 24, 2005)

A swashbuckler/fighter would work, leading into duelist
Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse(bonus), Two Weapon Fighting(1st level feat)
Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 1: Two Weapon Defense
Swashbuckler 1/ Fighter 2: Dodge (bonus), Mobility
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 3: *Add Int bonus to damage, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 3/Duelist 1: *Add Int bonus to AC(max=duelist level)
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 3/Duelist 3: Weapon Focus (short sword)
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 3/Duelist 6: Weapon Specialization (short sword)
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 3/Duelist 7: *Elaborate Parry (+7 dodge AC while fighting defensively)

So by 13th level the little guy will have:
+13 BAB
+Dex to attack with dual weilded short swords
+Int to damage with both short swords
+Int to AC (up to a maxmimum of +7)
+Str to damage with primary weapon, +1/2 Str to damage with secondary weapon
+1 to AC due to size
+1 to attacks due to size
+1 to attacks with short swords from weapon focus
+2 to damage to all hits with a short sword from weapon specialization
-2 to attacks due to dual weilding
-4 to attacks due to fighting defensively
+7 dodge bonus to AC due to Elaborate Parry and fighting defensively

Try to pick up one (or two if possible) sun blades and dual weild them.  I believe small sun blades will still deal d8 damage.  Or make sure to get damage adding enchantment whenever possible(such as flaming, bane, holy, etc). Also, fight defensively all the time.  You lose 4 to all attacks rolls, but gain +10 to AC (+2 for normal defensive fighting, +7 more for Elaborate Parry, and +1 extra for Two Weapon Defense while fighting defensively).

Your damage would be a little on the low side until you can get some nice stat boosting items to boost up your strength and intelligence, but your AC will be pretty amazing.  This type of character would be very hard to play at low levels due to the low damage output, but at high levels should do extremely well with the great AC and damage which is much more up to par for a fighter.

Something utlizing scout and duelist may also work since you can drop the two weapon fighting and gain the precise strike from the dualist...thus gaining skirmish damage and precise strike damage on the single hit per round.  Probably still too low on the damage output for this option, although the AC would be even better due to the skirmish ability.


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## Diirk (Feb 24, 2005)

Halfling Fighter 12

(28 point buy)
14 str
16 dex  (19 with 3 stat bumps)
14 con
10 int
12 wis
8 cha

EWP (Shuriken), WF (Shuriken), PBS, Precise Shot, WS (Shuriken), Rapid Shot, TWF, ITWF, Improved Crit (Shuriken), GWF (Shuriken), GWS (Shuriken), Imp Precise Shot  (GTWF at 14)

With +4 gloves of dexterity (not unreasonable at that level, brings dex to 23) and cleric/wiz casting GMW (CL 12 for +3 shurikens)

Full Attack: 21/21/21/16/16/11  crit on 19-20/x2, 1+9 damage (1+8 damage offhand), +1 hit/damage within 30'

Thats : 12/12/7/7/2 BAB, -2 rapid shot, -2 TWF, +2 GWF, +6 dex, +3 shurikens, +1 size, +1 thrown
And damage: 1 shuriken base +4 GWS +3 shurikens +2 str (+1 str offhand)

Things like prayer, bard song, flame arrows, haste etc help alot  Still, 6 attacks (7 at 14, 8 hasted at 14 !) at 9-10 damage each isn't bad ! If you don't mind an xp penalty you could always grab a level of barbarian for rage, or monk for flurry... and I'm sure there's some good PrCs out there.


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## RigaMortus (Feb 24, 2005)

A Halfling would make a great Scout (Complete Adventurer).  Take Mounted Combat, and you can move on your mount, toss Halflinf Skiprocks for extra d6s.  They richoette to secondary targets as well.


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## RigaMortus (Feb 24, 2005)

Diirk said:
			
		

> Halfling Fighter 12
> 
> (28 point buy)
> 14 str
> ...




Good build.  if you could manage to fit 1 level of Monk in there, you'd be able to Flurry w/ the Shuriken as well, for an extra attack.


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## smetzger (Feb 25, 2005)

Plenty of potions of Enlarge


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