# Thieves World



## Crothian

At some point I'm going to be running a Thieves World Campaign.  Over the next few weeks I plan on converting my notes from my fiorst and second edition campaigns to d20 and expand upon all this Sanctuary.

If you aren't familiar with Thieves world, it's a series of books written in the 80's. 

http://www.geocities.com/jillari1/menu.htm

That's the best fan site I know for it.  It has pretty much everything THieves World, although it has been a little slow in updates.  Not sure how it's doing now.  

So, back to the topic.  Would people be interested in seeing my stuff posted here?


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## Dragongirl

I would, specially if you stat out Tempus   And how would you deal with Niko's maat?


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## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *I would, specially if you stat out Tempus   And how would you deal with Niko's maat? *




Tempus doesn't get stated out.  Well, not untill I get a Demi God template or something like that.  Mostly, it would be the races, changes to classes, a few alternate rules to fit the world, write ups for the gods (no stats, even though they do show up from time to time, but more along the lines of domains and churches).  I'd also include some of the places both old and created, and some organizations like the guilds and such.


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## Dragongirl

Awwwwwww i want to see NPC stats!!!!!!!!


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## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Awwwwwww i want to see NPC stats!!!!!!!! *




People like Tempest, Enos Yorl, and Shadowspawn would be very hard to stat out.  But, we'll see.


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## Chrisling

Dood, I'm easier to please than Dragongirl.  If you give me good stats for Jubal, I'll worship you along with Alexander the Great.


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## Crothian

Chrisling said:
			
		

> *Dood, I'm easier to please than Dragongirl.  If you give me good stats for Jubal, I'll worship you along with Alexander the Great.   *




Jubal would be easier.  A fighter/rogue/Gladiator.  I think he might be Epic level, of course that has a completely different meaning in Sanctuary.


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## Dragongirl

Well even if you don't do NPCs, I for one would be interested in seeing what you come up with.


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## ColonelHardisson

The boxed set from around 1981-1982 stats out many of the characters, for multiple systems, no less - from D&D to AD&D to Runequest to Traveller (!) Plus, the maps of the cityare really nice.


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## Crothian

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> *The boxed set from around 1981-1982 stats out many of the characters, for multiple systems, no less - from D&D to AD&D to Runequest to Traveller (!) Plus, the maps of the cityare really nice. *




Ya, I have it.  It's very well done, and I'd like to find another.  Has a booklet for players and a seperate booklet for DMs.  My friend (and I hope I can borrow them from him) has all the modules that came out for it as well.  I'm a pretty big fan, having many of the follow up books the authors wrote about their characters, as well as the orginal 12 TW novels and all the graphic novels they did.


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## Mr Fidgit

that website has a huge list of characters! and some of the 'classifications' sound like PrCs

hawkmask
hellhound
hazard-class mage
white mage....


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## NoOneofConsequence

The Thieve's World boxed set was one of the best RPG supplements I ever bought. Please share your stuff - I know I'll be poring over every word.


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## Eternalknight

I have always wanted to read these books!  Unfortunately I have never found them; anyone know where I might be able to get them?


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## Dragongirl

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> *I have always wanted to read these books!  Unfortunately I have never found them; anyone know where I might be able to get them? *




You can find a number of them on Amazon.com


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## Sulimo

Speaking of which, the new anthology should be out soon.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...r=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-1077123-3226426?v=glance

Has anyone read the most recent book, Sanctuary ?


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## Eternalknight

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You can find a number of them on Amazon.com *




D'oh!  Why didn't I think of that?  Thank you Dragongirl


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## Dragongirl

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> *D'oh!  Why didn't I think of that?  Thank you Dragongirl  *




Hehe, no problem.


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## hong

Is it just me, or is Hanse Shadowspawn just a disaster waiting to happen?

I mean, he wears all black.

And he's a loner who doesn't talk much.

And he has the World's Most Pretentious Name [tm].

Jeez, and people complain about Driz'zt.


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## Crothian

Sulimo said:
			
		

> *Speaking of which, the new anthology should be out soon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...r=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-1077123-3226426?v=glance
> 
> Has anyone read the most recent book, Sanctuary ? *




I bought and read it the day it came out.  They advance the time line about 50 years and Sanctuary can not catch a break.  More bad things happened in this city then all others combined it seems.  But still, a good book.  They tie up most of the lose ends of all the mjor characters from the orginal series.  Don't expect happy endings for many of them, this is Sanctuary after all.


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## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *that website has a huge list of characters! and some of the 'classifications' sound like PrCs
> 
> hawkmask
> hellhound
> hazard-class mage
> white mage.... *




Hawkmask will be a prestige class.  Hellhound should be but there are only 6 of these guys, they are the prince's personal gaurd.  Hazard Class MAge and White Mage are different classifications of magic users.  The books don't go into a lot of detail on magic, they really keep it mysterious.


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## ThomasBJJ

anyone interested in Thieves World Box set or Thieves World Companion, email me at ThomasBJJ@hotmail.com.


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## Heretic Apostate

ThomasBJJ said:
			
		

> *anyone interested in Thieves World Box set or Thieves World Companion, email me at ThomasBJJ@hotmail.com. *




Heh.  You beat me to it, Thomas. 

How goes the auctions?


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## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *They advance the time line about 50 years and Sanctuary can not catch a break... *



so, if you're planning on running a game, will it be the old Sanctuary, or the new, 50 years later Sanctuary?


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## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> so, if you're planning on running a game, will it be the old Sanctuary, or the new, 50 years later Sanctuary? *




I'd run it in Old Sanctuary (why, want to play?  ), I'm more familiar with it as it's all written.  Only one book on the new stuff yet, and a lot of it dealt with past events.


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## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *I'd run it in Old Sanctuary (why, want to play? *



i'm not sure any more. i just started reading one of the books and it's _dark_ 

i thought Ravenloft was dark, because everything and their mothers wants to kill and eat you. in Sanctuary, death is the least of your potential problems!


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## AngelTears

I would love to see more material on Thieves World, I got hooked on Robert Asprin, and I have not looked back. 
I have been trying to collect the original books and graphic novels too. 

Speaking of which, I found the boxed set a year ago, still in its original plastic wrapping, and I was wondering what other supplements were made for the game?


-Angel Tears


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## Mr Fidgit

the website Crothian posted mentions 6 supplements

http://www.geocities.com/jillari1/roleplay/supps.htm


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## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> i'm not sure any more. i just started reading one of the books and it's dark
> 
> i thought Ravenloft was dark, because everything and their mothers wants to kill and eat you. in Sanctuary, death is the least of your potential problems! *




It's all in how players want it.  There are people who live and prosper in Sanctuary making an honest living.  I don't run to dark of game.  I establish the drugs and the slavery, but I don't go to deep into that.  The biggest thing in Sanctuary is knowing who you can trust, and who to stay away from.  One just has to be careful, and know what he is doing.  I don't just drop people into the setting and see if they can make it, that would make for many dead PCs.


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## War Golem

Thieves World/Sanctuary is very, very cool. A truly excellent setting for a low-magic fantasy campaign. The first several books of the series were great, but as I recall, I found myself losing interest in some of the plot elements and characters that came into prominence in the later books.

Although my campaign is not set in TW, I've been using Jubal as an off-screen (i.e., no stats, not yet anyway) villain in my campaign for a while. The PCs have had a few run-ins with his thugs (the "Hawkmasks"). One of the PCs, a kzinti rogue, wrote-up her backstory to make the character in need of some serous cash flow early on, to pay off the large gambling debt she had accumulated and now owed to the mysterious crimelord, Jubal.

Good luck with your campaign, Crothian! I would definitely be interested in seeing whatever you come up with.

Cheers,

-War Golem


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## Crothian

The thread is way over in Plots and Places.  Just a skeleton of what it will become.  It will include notes and my thoughts on running and playing in a TW game.


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## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *There are people who live and prosper in Sanctuary making an honest living. *




exactly _one_. 

*Cappen Varra* - Itinerant minstel. Rumored to be _the only honest man in town_ 





 you'll come to Sanctuary for the hospitality and stay for the weather 

this message has been brought to you by The Citizens for a Brighter Tomorrow and ....where the hell is my money pouch?


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## Crothian

I think the books are highly exagorating in this.  I'm not saying the place is loaded with LG character, but most people seem to look out for themselves.  

And even with many dishonest people, just watching what you do and protecting your purse will prevent much of the crime that can happen to you.  THere are a few don't in Sanctuary.  Learn them and follow them.


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## Felon

Both good and bad memories here. Thieves World was a great idea for a series, having several different writers create their own characters, and having their individual escapades take place in the same city. The interplay between Jubal and Zalbar was great stuff.

Then Tempus showed up, and became all the rage. Super-badass, invincible, immortal avatar for every war-god in the universe, former member of the Red Band, former member of every sorcerer cabal in the world, thug, bully, and rapist.

The whole ensemble cast idea kind of loses steam when one character dominated the series, and nobody seemed to mind but me. He just seemed a lame rip-off of Karl Wagner's Kane, just more boorish.

So Cro, are you gonna have a prestige class for the sect of the blue star?


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## Crothian

Felon said:
			
		

> *seemed a lame rip-off of Karl Wagner's Kane, just more boorish.
> 
> So Cro, are you gonna have a prestige class for the sect of the blue star? *




I'm not familair with that Kane.  However, Tempest did sort of become a larger charater then many of the others.  There's at least three book all about him that exist out side the series (I have three, there may be more).  

A prestige class for the Order of the Blue Star will be very difficult.  They don't give a heck of a lot if information on these guys.  They train to fight Chaos during the end of the world.  Each has a secret and bound by a vow.  There is probaly more in Lythande's story, and I think there is at least a book or two totally devoted to Lythande.


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## jgbrowning

Crothian said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm not familair with that Kane.  However, Tempest did sort of become a larger charater then many of the others.  There's at least three book all about him that exist out side the series (I have three, there may be more).
> *




Crothian i cannot reccomend Kane enough.  It is dark fantasy, which in general i dont like, but Kane is by far and away the most interesting character i've read in fantasy literature.  The best part is that there is none of the angst typical of dark fantasy (ie.. self loathing/self-love), and wagner can write a tight and active story.

pick up on of his books if you can.. they're all out of print but a new printing of the three novels (wagner is dead.. no more coming ) is available via nightshade books.

if not you can often find them on ebay.  its worth a look into.

joe b.


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## Crothian

Cool, I'll add it to my list of books to look into.  Thanks.  

I should be typing up each of the TW races and posting them in the plots and places thread tonight.


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## Mr Fidgit

Felon said:
			
		

> *So Cro, are you gonna have a prestige class for the sect of the blue star? *



i think they should have a spellpool-like ability, similar to the Guildmages of Waterdeep (MoF)

Kemren, the Purple Mage's abilities also sound like a techno-mancer type wizard PrC, being dependant on his 'mechanical-magical devices'.

after reading over the TW/AD&D conversions, it seems to me that Eschew Materials is a common feat among wizards in Thieves World

the S'Danzo (and half-S'Danzo) have innate psionic abilities, easy to do for a 0-level 1e character, not so easy in 3e (unless an adept-type psionic using NPC class was developed, they'd all have to have PC classes (Psions and/or Psychic Warriors))


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## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> i think they should have a spellpool-like ability, similar to the Guildmages of Waterdeep (MoF)
> 
> Kemren, the Purple Mage's abilities also sound like a techno-mancer type wizard PrC, being dependant on his 'mechanical-magical devices'.
> 
> after reading over the TW/AD&D conversions, it seems to me that Eschew Materials is a common feat among wizards in Thieves World
> 
> the S'Danzo (and half-S'Danzo) have innate psionic abilities, easy to do for a 0-level 1e character, not so easy in 3e (unless an adept-type psionic using NPC class was developed, they'd all have to have PC classes (Psions and/or Psychic Warriors)) *




Good ideas on the Purple Mage guy, he's a nasty customer and so is his island.

While the S'Danzo have powers that are similiar to some psychic abilities, the psion and psychic warrior can give such a braod range of abilities it just doesn't fit.  I'm going to borrow some divination spells from Slaine since they have some good divination stuff.


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## Crothian

Okay, the start of stating out the races has begun in a thread in the plots and places forum found here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27940


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## Mr Fidgit

i've just noticed that Enas Yorl is supposed to have a bunch of familiars, some, possibly the improved kind. is there a feat that would give multiple familiars somewhere, or should it be written up that he just has a lot of 'pets'?


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## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *i've just noticed that Enas Yorl is supposed to have a bunch of familiars, some, possibly the improved kind. is there a feat that would give multiple familiars somewhere, or should it be written up that he just has a lot of 'pets'? *




Ya, there is a feat in a Dragon Magazine that allows one to take an additional familiar.  He does have the pair of more of Baskilisks.  I like there warning that Enas Yorl's psossesions might fall into the hands of the PCs.  If he's played correctly, that will never happen.  He's epic level and then some.


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## Mr Fidgit

i think there'd also have to be a bunch of new 9th level spells to reflect some of the 'abilities' bestowed on the novel characters, like _longevity_ or _bestow major curse_ 

or would that be _bestow_ _major_ nasty, oozey, painful, forces-your-shape-to-change, ugly, embarasing-when-you-have-company-over, type of _curse_


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## Crothian

His curse is Epic in level.  And its the curse that allows him to live as long as he has.


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## Decado

I bought the books "Sanctuary" and "Cross-Currents" from the Science Fiction Book Club many, many years ago when I was still playing Basic D&D. I have never read them completely through, I guess I was too young to really understand and enjoy them. I always liked the setting and much to my regret never bought any of the RPG material based on the setting. I think once I finish reading the books I am on now I will read them completely.

After my last game session my players and I were talking about what setting we would use if we wanted to run a city based-thief campaign. Sanctuary was mentioned by one of my players as being his choice if he was to DM the campaign. Good luck with your conversion and campaign, please keep us updated. How do you plan on running your game? Is it going to be face to face or online?

Decado


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## Mr Fidgit

face to face, decado

Crothian started a TW 3e conversion thread, here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27940


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## Crothian

Decado said:
			
		

> *I bought the books "Sanctuary" and "Cross-Currents" from the Science Fiction Book Club many, many years ago when I was still playing Basic D&D. I have never read them completely through, I guess I was too young to really understand and enjoy them. I always liked the setting and much to my regret never bought any of the RPG material based on the setting. I think once I finish reading the books I am on now I will read them completely.
> 
> After my last game session my players and I were talking about what setting we would use if we wanted to run a city based-thief campaign. Sanctuary was mentioned by one of my players as being his choice if he was to DM the campaign. Good luck with your conversion and campaign, please keep us updated. How do you plan on running your game? Is it going to be face to face or online?
> 
> Decado *




If you hunt around you can still find the books.  Ebay always has some for sell, but I perfer to go to the used book stored to get the cheap.  When reading them, if there's a story you don't like, skip it.  Not all the short stories are great, and very few are so important that you have to read them.

As Mr Fidgit said I'm slowly converting everything from my notes and the books.  However, be warned you also get a lot of me narrating and offering advice.  

My game is going to be face to face.  I think that's very important for a TW game.  Sacntuary needs to be set up and people need to feel like they are there.  The city is alive and a major character in the game.  I'm not sure how well that can be accimploshed over another medium.


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## Decado

Thanks for the link Mr. Fidgit. 

Crothian,

I agree TW should be played face to face. I have tried many different mediums and face to face is still my favorite. I will have to consult the website you posted earlier for a complete listing of the TW books and material. I would love to lay my hands on the RPG stuff. Used book stores are a favorite haunt of mine but since I moved 2.5 years ago I have found none in this area. I need to search them out. Thats is how I obtained my copy of Cross-Currents, after I lost my original. The books I have now are compilations of many TW stories and I cannot wait to start them! 

I will be keeping an eye on your conversion thread and maybe once your campaign has started you could keep us updated by posting in the Story Hour forum? 

Good luck

Decado


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## Crothian

Decado said:
			
		

> *I will be keeping an eye on your conversion thread and maybe once your campaign has started you could keep us updated by posting in the Story Hour forum?
> *




TW will become a story Hour.  However, the campaign is not going to be started any time soon.  I'm playing in two very fun games, so one of those would have to end before I could start up.


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## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *Crothian started a TW 3e conversion thread, here:
> 
> http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27940 *




More has been added to the above thread.  I'm mainily concentrating on character creation and developement, as well as other topics devoted to the characters.


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## Crothian

So, are there any specific topics people want to see in this?


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## Breakdaddy

One of my pals took his thieves world boxed set and made it into PDFs. The quality was questionable, but it kept him from having to handle the books a lot, so his originals are in great shape still. He never could convince any of us to play though. We never read any of the books, so interest was low.


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## Crothian

REading the books really helps as it really sets the feel for the game.  It's a dark setting, but enjoyible.


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## Crothian

Even with the new skills and other changes in d20 charisma is still the dump stat for many people.  Soon, I will explain why in Sanctuary (and it can be used in other places) charisma is universally important.


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## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *there is a feat in a Dragon Magazine that allows one to take an additional familiar. He does have the pair of more of Baskilisks.*



in TW book 6, Wings of Omen, Lalo creates the vulgar unicorn and all of the high-powered wizardly types notice the magic (or the disturbance in the force, or whatever ). Enas Yorl's reaction: "Automatically he summoned his familiars and sent them scurrying through the twisted streets."

i don't think he sent his basilisks out into the streets...

maybe he has animal companions like a non-adventuring druid (?)


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## Crothian

I'll have to make a high level Wizard feat to detect magic being used in such and such a radius.  I think that would be really cool.

I guess I could do another high level feat that offers certain amount of weaker familiars.


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## Mr Fidgit

Crothian, how many races are in Thieves World? i've seen your list on the other thread, but book 7 names a _bunch_ 

about Moonflower (who's a S'Danzo)..."And she had Seen many things for many others. Ilsegi and Twanders, Mrsevadans and Rankans, Syrese and Auryeshi...and now Beysibs."


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## Dragongirl

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *Crothian, how many races are in Thieves World? i've seen your list on the other thread, but book 7 names a bunch
> 
> about Moonflower (who's a S'Danzo)..."And she had Seen many things for many others. Ilsegi and Twanders, Mrsevadans and Rankans, Syrese and Auryeshi...and now Beysibs." *



What about that old one...maybe it was a nation...Elinbbar?  Whatever the really hard steal is named after.  Was never sure if that was a past society/nation or a people.

And speaking of Beysibs, what about a Harka Bey (is that the right name?) prestige class?


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## Mr Fidgit

Crothian has Enlibar stronger than adamantine in the plots & places thread

Harka Bey would _definately_ be PrC (those ladies are _wicked dangerous_!)


[hijack] the New Sacred Thread was just locked by PC? what's up with that? of course i haven't seen it since pg 15, and now its up pg 30?![/end hijack]


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## Dragongirl

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *[hijack] the New Sacred Thread was just locked by PC? what's up with that? of course i haven't seen it since pg 15, and now its up pg 30?![/end hijack] *



[continued hijack] Just lucky we got it to over 1100 posts.  The last Sacred Thread was closed before 1000. [/end continued hijack]

And I am still not sure if Enlibbar was a nation or a people.


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## Crothian

Enlibar was a nation, the nation of the S'Danzo people actually.  However, they become arragant and spited the gods.  THeir nation was destroyed from within and they are now forced to wonder from place to place.  Even S'Danzo who live in the same place for a deace will be ready to pack up and leave in less then a days time.  They were the creators of Enlibar steel, a steel refined with magic.  The secret of Enlibar steel is lost to even the S'Danzo.

Most of those other races I have no clue on.  Only the Beysibs have actually been introduced into the novels.  They come in and conquore Sanctuary for a little while.  Odd people, literally fishheads.  

I'm just using the races that are mentioned through out the books a few times.  Since the world of Thieves World was never fully defined by anyone, there are many things mentioned in a short story or two that are never fully explained.


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## Crothian

Lots of editing and some new editions to the Plots and Places Thread.  Don't just read the latest posts, I'm editing the old ones with new info as well.


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## Dragongirl

Crothian said:
			
		

> *The secret of Enlibar steel is lost to even the S'Danzo.*



Depends on how far in the books you go.  Walegrin found the shard that led to the secret of Enlibar steel.  He then proceeded to have some made.


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## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Depends on how far in the books you go.  Walegrin found the shard that led to the secret of Enlibar steel.  He then proceeded to have some made. *




Yes he does.  I was just speaking generally, I don't think he taught anyone else it and I think the secret dies with him.  But as far as everyone else knows, the secret is lost.


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## Mr Fidgit

will weapons made of Enlibar metal have the 'natural' enhancement bonus that adamantine does?


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## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *will weapons made of Enlibar metal have the 'natural' enhancement bonus that adamantine does? *




I don't even like that Adamantine was redifined that way.  So, in theory they will both be a normal enhancement bonus, but in practice I doubt it will matter.  One doesn't really fight creatures with DR in Sanctuary.  Sure, I can come up with specific examples that it could happen, but those would be the exception to the rule.


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## Crothian

A good little overview of the eleven different sections has been posted to the plots and places thread found here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27940


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## Decado

Crothian,

I just spent some time reading your Thieves World d20 conversion thread, great job so far! I am really fighting the urge to drop the books I am reading now and pick up my TW books and start reading. I stated in a previous post that I have the books "Sanctuary" and "Cross-Currents" which are a compilation of TW stories. I was wondering, since I do not have a complete set of TW books, if I needed all the books to understand what is going on or are the stories for the most part complete on their own?

Keep up the good work!

Decado


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## Crothian

Decado said:
			
		

> *Crothian,
> 
> I just spent some time reading your Thieves World d20 conversion thread, great job so far! I am really fighting the urge to drop the books I am reading now and pick up my TW books and start reading. I stated in a previous post that I have the books "Sanctuary" and "Cross-Currents" which are a compilation of TW stories. I was wondering, since I do not have a complete set of TW books, if I needed all the books to understand what is going on or are the stories for the most part complete on their own?
> 
> Keep up the good work!
> 
> Decado *




Thanks.  It's good to know I'm not just posting all this for my own amusement.  

You have the first two anthologies consisting of the first 6 books.  The next six are good to read and a lot is going on in them.  However, they are not needed just a good read.  All my conversions refer to the time period around the first novel if not a little before it.  There are also novels on the certain characters that the authors have written, like Shadowspawn has two books dealing with him when he and Moonflower leave Sanctuary.  However, these side novels are even harder to find.  I'm still hunting for many of them.  If you are curious about the other books, I suggest going here:

http://www.geocities.com/jillari1/menu.htm

There is no better resource for all things Thieves World anywhere.


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## Crothian

Okay, enough of this converting other peoples's stuff. Time to get to the fun stuff, the stuff that came out on my Thieves World games. Tommorrow I'm going to type up my notes on *The Pit *


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## Decado

Thanks for the reply Crothian. I am going to start looking for a used book store around here and hopefully I can find books 7-12. I have added that TW site you provided to my favorites. Have you read the latest Sanctuary book and if so what do you think? Is it as good as the originals?

Thanks again for the info.

Decado


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## Crothian

Decado said:
			
		

> *Thanks for the reply Crothian. I am going to start looking for a used book store around here and hopefully I can find books 7-12. I have added that TW site you provided to my favorites. Have you read the latest Sanctuary book and if so what do you think? Is it as good as the originals?
> 
> Thanks again for the info.
> 
> Decado *




Your welcome.  That site is just amazing for TW info.  I wish I had that kind of time and dedication this little project.

The only new book out right now is called Sanctuary by Lynn Abbey.  It's a good story for that takes place about 50 years later.  Molin Torchholder is dieing and locates a local to basically take his place.  He recaps most of the stories and tells you the characters endings, few good.  This is not a compiliation of old stories writen in a new way or anything like.  It's a darn good book for Thieves World fans.  The next book, the first of the short stories, come out in November some time.


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## Heretic Apostate

Crothian said:
			
		

> *
> that the authors have written, like Shadowspawn has two books dealing with him when he and Moonflower leave Sanctuary.  However, these side novels are even harder to find.  I'm still hunting for many of them*




Erm....  "Shadowspawn" is about Hanse and Minuereal (or however it's spelled), picking up right after they leave Sanctuary (after Moonflower has been killed by a Beysib).

What's the other Shadowspan book?


----------



## Crothian

Heretic Apostate said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Erm....  "Shadowspawn" is about Hanse and Minuereal (or however it's spelled), picking up right after they leave Sanctuary (after Moonflower has been killed by a Beysib).
> 
> What's the other Shadowspan book? *




You're right, sorry, got the names confused.  The other one is called Shadows and Sorcery and it takes place right after Shadowspawn I do believe.  

Back cover blurb: 

Master thief, magic haze 

He is Shadowspawn. Master thief. Addicted to adventure. Light of foot, swift with steel, chieftain of the night. Now, on the outskirts of a city rules by sorcerers, he plunges below ground into a labyrinth guarded by lethal demons - and deadlier illusions. The treasure he finds could help his quest - or kill him on the spot. 

His quest: the fabled Rings of Senek. His opponent: a master mage with powers beyond the ken of mortal man. At stake is the life of a lovely woman - and mastery of a city ruled by the spellcaster's darkest art... 

the Shadow of Sorcery 

The triumphant return of Shadowspawn!


----------



## Mr Fidgit

it occured to me that someone with the _maat_ ability could be handled like a spellfire user from MoF, in that, it could be taken as feat (at first level only), which would give a character some small ability to see auras (like any detect spell). a _maat_-user PrC could be developed for people who hone this ability...


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *it occured to me that someone with the maat ability could be handled like a spellfire user from MoF, in that, it could be taken as feat (at first level only), which would give a character some small ability to see auras (like any detect spell). a maat-user PrC could be developed for people who hone this ability... *




That also sounds good.  In the other thread, someone suggested Niko would be a monk and that makes sense.  So does having Maat as a feat.  And the prestige class to take advantage of that is a good suggestion as well.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

so do you think Randal really, _really_ likes polymorph, or has a Shapeshifter-like PrC (from OA)?


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *so do you think Randal really, really likes polymorph, or has a Shapeshifter-like PrC (from OA)? *




That's hard to say.  I think it's a shapeshifting power, personally.  

The Pit is posted in the other thread.  It's an fighting arena in the maze.


----------



## Decado

Anyone ever order from www.abesbooks.com? I just ran a search on TW and they had a ton of stuff.

Decado


----------



## Crothian

Nope, never heard of them.


----------



## Dragongirl

Are you going to have krrf (sp?) as a new item?


----------



## Dragongirl

Oh, and that breed of horse Tempus likes...forget what it is called.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Are you going to have krrf (sp?) as a new item? *




Yes, I will have the drug and in it's varies forms.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Oh, and that breed of horse Tempus likes...forget what it is called. *




Tros Horse.  Well, there's a carrot above the "o" in the spelling of Tros, but I don't know how to do that on the messageboards.  

Yes, they will be a new kind of animal, a special breed of horse.


----------



## Dragongirl

<p><b><font size="5">Trôs</font></b></p>


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *<p><b><font size="5">Trôs</font></b></p> *




I must admit, you are better then I am.


----------



## Dragongirl

Crothian said:
			
		

> *I must admit, you are better then I am.   *



Naw, I just cheat and insert the symbol in my Frontpage program and paste is over here.  

You need this all setup on a webpage so it is easier to find things.  Your thread over in plot is getting hard to keep track of.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *  Your thread over in plot is getting hard to keep track of. *




Why's that?


----------



## Dragongirl

Crothian said:
			
		

> *Why's that? *



Well, just in my opinion, but you have to read the whole thing to try to find the one thing you want.  Whereas if it was on a webpage, with different pages for different topics, it would be much easier.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Well, just in my opinion, but you have to read the whole thing to try to find the one thing you want.  Whereas if it was on a webpage, with different pages for different topics, it would be much easier. *




I'm sorry, but so far this is the best I can do.  I'm web page illerate, plus all I have are a few small essays and not much content yet.


----------



## Dragongirl

Crothian said:
			
		

> *I'm sorry, but so far this is the best I can do.  I'm web page illerate, plus all I have are a few small essays and not much content yet.   *



Awwww don't take it like that.  I think you are doing a great job!  As you may or may not have noticed, I love webpages.  I can't do anything fancy, but I love making them.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Awwww don't take it like that.  I think you are doing a great job!  As you may or may not have noticed, I love webpages.  I can't do anything fancy, but I love making them.   *




Perhaps I will make a request of you once I feel I have a sufficient amount of topics done.  Until then we will all have to make due with the message boards.  However, if there is anything you are looking for that you cannot find please e-mail or post the question.  Same if there is something I have yet to cover that you wish to see.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *...having Maat as a feat.  And the prestige class to take advantage of that is a good suggestion as well. *



well, in several places he's called a 'Bandaran Adept'. if that isn't the name of a PrC...

i do think it makes sense to work it like spellfire. taking the feat only at first level limits eventual access to the PrC. - and, it may be 'organization' inclusive, like any PrC that must belong to a guild to get the proper training


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> well, in several places he's called a 'Bandaran Adept'. if that isn't the name of a PrC...
> 
> i do think it makes sense to work it like spellfire. taking the feat only at first level limits eventual access to the PrC. - and, it may be 'organization' inclusive, like any PrC that must belong to a guild to get the proper training *




I noticed that and added that and a few others to my list of Prestige classes.  I'll be updating the Classes and Races sections soon.  No big changes yet, though.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *Yes, I will have the drug and in it's varies forms. *



there are several drugs available in Sanctuary. from one passage about Stilcho:

"Of drugs and temptations he had sampled in his life, of ghassa and krrf and whatever lotos-dreams the smoke of firoq gave, there was no sensation to equal that moment...."


----------



## Mr Fidgit

so what about the special weapons and armor in TW?

Randal: "...inherited Niko's panoply, armor forged by the entelechy of dream."

sound like _ectoplasmic_ armor to me


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> there are several drugs available in Sanctuary. from one passage about Stilcho:
> 
> "Of drugs and temptations he had sampled in his life, of ghassa and krrf and whatever lotos-dreams the smoke of firoq gave, there was no sensation to equal that moment...." *




See, that's why I have players read the books.  They catch things I don't.


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *so what about the special weapons and armor in TW?
> 
> Randal: "...inherited Niko's panoply, armor forged by the entelechy of dream."
> 
> sound like ectoplasmic armor to me  *




Niko's home is a place of the freams but the opposite, or something like that.  It's vaguely described.  For the most part all non charged items are unique.  And anything goes.


----------



## Crothian

A little advice for adventuring in Sanctuary is posted.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

alright - something else that's occured to me while reading the TW books:

it doesn't surprise me that you'd keep divine magic (especially magical healing) out of the hands of the players. the only character i've read about so far that has a 'healing touch' is Jihan, 'daughter of the primal god, Stormbringer' (unless you'd allow player characters to have a demi-god template ). 

the types of healing i've read are either magical (only once, when Randal used the healing properties of water that comes off of his magic sword - and a magical item like that is ultra-rare or unique anyway), alchemical (or herbal - using some 'formula' of special ingredients) and mundane (surgery or field medicine to set bones, cauterize wounds, etc.)


----------



## Dragongirl

When you do gods, what time frame are you going with?  Personally I would love to see the Trinity of . .  Silveni (sp?) between her, the cripple, Harran and the dog . .  oh that is 4 . . . what do you call that?


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Crothian was talking about doing a game before the series of books starts

--and i just read that story, 'Down by the Riverside' in book 7.

"Dear heart," said the *Queen of hell* [to *Death* himself], "a dog followed me home. Can I keep it?"

priceless! 

the Queen even said 'a four-person trinity?', i'm not sure there _is_ a word for that.  (Siveni, Mriga, Harran and Tyr)


----------



## Dragongirl

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *Crothian was talking about doing a game before the series of books starts*



Bah there goes most of the interesting people.  Prince Kitty Cat would not even be there!!


----------



## Mr Fidgit

no, but he _will_ be.

i think the point is to let the books be a guideline, but not force the PCs (or the DM) into a particular _timeline_. this also prevents the players from having too much fore-knowledge of coming events -- and it would allow the possibility of the PCs having an impact on Sanctuary.


----------



## Dragongirl

That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.  If you are going to arbitrarily decide when to have it set, you don't have to do it before any of the novels, and you don't have to followthe novels after the time you choose.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.  If you are going to arbitrarily decide when to have it set, you don't have to do it before any of the novels, and you don't have to followthe novels after the time you choose. *




Here's the plan. We would start a few months before Prince Kittcat arrives.  THis way the characters experience the changes Prince Kitty Cat makes or tries to make.  I am going to follow the novels, sort of.  Not everything that happens in the novels is wide known.  So, while Tempest gets captured by Kurd and is rescued by Hanse, for instance, I highly doubt the characters will be aware of these events.  THey will know Tempest vanishes.  They might witness Tempest trying to repay Hanse later.  

The Beysib invansion and the deal with Ichade and Rozane I might not deal with.  I'd have to see how the game is going and what the characters are before deciding to use them.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *When you do gods, what time frame are you going with?  Personally I would love to see the Trinity of . .  Silveni (sp?) between her, the cripple, Harran and the dog . .  oh that is 4 . . . what do you call that? *




I have no idea.  I'll have to reread some stuff and take some serious notes to try to figure things out.


----------



## Dragongirl

Ah, well that makes more sense to me Crothian.    By the way, it is Tempus, not Tempest


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Ah, well that makes more sense to me Crothian.    By the way, it is Tempus, not Tempest   *




The sad thing is I actually just finished the book called Tempus and still type the wrong type and say the wrong thing.


----------



## Dragongirl

Guess I should start reading my TW books again, thank goodness my reading book collection is huge.  If I do, do you want me to take notes on what I find interesting?


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *do you want me to take notes on what I find interesting? *



that's exactly what i've been doing   (and why i keep posting things to this thread)

so, does that make us Professor Crothian's research assistants?


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Guess I should start reading my TW books again, thank goodness my reading book collection is huge.  If I do, do you want me to take notes on what I find interesting? *




If you want to, that would be great and so very helpful.  I'm reading so of the old novels that I haven't read before and then I plan to reread the 12 collections of short stories.  But even with me rereading them, different people catch and interpret different things.  So, all the hlpe and input anyone can give me will be great.


----------



## Dragongirl

Perhaps we should try on a chonology, so you can choose a potential timeline.


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> that's exactly what i've been doing   (and why i keep posting things to this thread)
> 
> so, does that make us Professor Crothian's research assistants?  *




Except I'm nicer to my assiatants, I'll give you full credit for your work, and you won't get paid.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Perhaps we should try on a chonology, so you can choose a potential timeline. *



should we start with chronology from the TW RPG?

(do you think we'd get in trouble for posting that?)


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Perhaps we should try on a chonology, so you can choose a potential timeline. *




I've got a time line from the the beggining of written time (or there abouts) through the first two books.  A time line wouldn't be bad, but might be hard since the stories are not written in cronological order and many of them take place at the same time.


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> should we start with chronology from the TW RPG?
> 
> (do you think we'd get in trouble for posting that?) *




I've so far refrained because it is copy writted and Morrus would not like us posting copy writed material here.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *I've so far refrained because it is copy writted and Morrus would not like us posting copy writed material here. *



that's why i asked....

if we do a chronology, it could start with book 3, since anyone with the RPG could refer back to that

(although that doesn't mean we couldn't discuss some of the things on the timeline, to flesh it out a little...)


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> that's why i asked....
> 
> if we do a chronology, it could start with book 3, since anyone with the RPG could refer back to that
> 
> (although that doesn't mean we couldn't discuss some of the things on the timeline, to flesh it out a little...) *




We can do the stuff from the first two books and write it all in outr own words and it should be okay.  Posting it all word for word is not good, but we should be able to construct something very close referring to the books ourselves.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

what i'm saying is (for example):

*Aging and the Elderly* 

(all dates are based on book 2 (i think))

Myrtis has run the Aphrodisia House for *138* years

Lythande _started_ his training about *160* years ago

and (of course), poor Enas Yorl has been cursed for at least *300* years


----------



## Crothian

Ya, that's all fine and actually in the time line.  Poor Enas Yorl, he's been cursed for a while.


----------



## Crothian

So, any other ideas yet?


----------



## Crothian

Divination rules posted over their.  I did it as a new exclusive skill that only S'Danzo women get as a class skill.  Others can choose a feat to get the skill as a cross class skill.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

interesting fact - there were only 5 original Hellhounds, and they didn't choose that name, it was given to them by the townsfolk of Sanctuary (lovingly, i'm sure )

Arman, Bourne, Quag, Razkuli and Zalbar


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *interesting fact - there were only 5 original Hellhounds, and they didn't choose that name, it was given to them by the townsfolk of Sanctuary (lovingly, i'm sure )
> 
> Arman, Bourne, Quag, Razkuli and Zalbar *




Ya, Tempus comes in later.  Zalbar's the leader.  I think it's Razkuli that ends up dead.  

"The towns people have already taken to calling you Hellhonuds.  Be sure that title refers only to the your vigor with which you persue your duties and not your viciousness."

The Prince


----------



## Eldritch

Going back to Mr. Fidgit's comment about the relative ages of some of the characters.  I think that relates to the nature of Magic in Sanctuary.  Someone earlier said that this was a Low-magic environment.  I am not so sure.  Magic is not overt in Sanctuary certainly.  But it is present... And present in subtle ways that fool even the everyday inhabitants of the city.  Also the great thing about an anthology is that  there are multiple forms of magic happening all at once.  Which allows you, Crothian, as the compiler of this adventure the pleasure of reconciling them.


----------



## Crothian

Eldritch said:
			
		

> *Going back to Mr. Fidgit's comment about the relative ages of some of the characters.  I think that relates to the nature of Magic in Sanctuary.  Someone earlier said that this was a Low-magic environment.  I am not so sure.  Magic is not overt in Sanctuary certainly.  But it is present... And present in subtle ways that fool even the everyday inhabitants of the city.  Also the great thing about an anthology is that  there are multiple forms of magic happening all at once.  Which allows you, Crothian, as the compiler of this adventure the pleasure of reconciling them. *




On the age issue.  Enas Yorl is immortal through the Curse.  He actually wants to and does try to end his own life, but he cannot.  Lythande's order seems to be ageless.  They are trained to face down chaos during the end of the world, so if they can't live that long it sort of defeats the purpose of the Order.  Myrtis is keep young by Lythande.  They have an arrangement.  

I call it a low magic world because magic is a pipe dream for most people.  However, the magic that is there can be considered on lines with Epic Levels.  There is nothing, it seems that magic cannot do.  It's just very rare.  THere are many kinds and I'm slowling working on it.  

Right now though, I'm completeing the Hell Hound prestige Class.


----------



## Crothian

And the Hell Hound Prestige Class is complete.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

a partial list of S'Danzo divination cards (from book 9)

Forest Primeval - sunlight shining through trees in full bloom (green leaves)

Zenith - the noonday sun - (Lalo added a cityscape to the bottom of this card, and it came to represent Sanctuary)

The Lance of Ships - the Narwhale - a card of good fortune and changeability, upside down represents misfortune, or good fortunes disappearing

Two of Ores - Steel - image of swords pointing in one direction (towards or away from the person who's getting their fortune told - swords toward you indicate death, swords away mean doom for your enemy)

Quicksilver - the Card of Shalpa - 

The Face of Chaos - image of a man and woman distorted 'as if in some fever dream'

The Zigurrat - image of a disintegrating tower

The Lance of Winds - images of storms and tornadoes

Justice - image of three robed and hooded figures pointing at a man kneeling

Eight of Flames - the Lady of Fire - 'who's touch can warm or destroy' (the goddess Dyareela)

Seven of Ores - Red Clay - represents craftsmen potters

The Archway - image of a massive gate with an unknown mystic symbol carved in its keystone. beyond the gate is plush greenery

Three of Flames - images of three nondescript people holding torches in a long tunnel, with one end of the tunnel dark, and the other bright


----------



## Crothian

Cool, now all we need is someone to create them as props!!


----------



## Mr Fidgit

S'Danzo divination - its been written several times that the S'Danzo (or at least Illyra) doesn't worship any gods (ilsig, rankan, or otherwise), but they do follow 'the pattern'

Illyra - 

“When I read [the cards], the querent and the cards and I are all linked in the Pattern and the cards that come up reflect his relationship to it. The Pattern is the Cause; the cards are the effect. My Seeing only translates to the querent what is already there.”

it sounds like this would directly apply to divinations using tea leaves, bones, stones, etc.


----------



## Crothian

Thanks Fidget, that will be helphul.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *There are people who live and prosper in Sanctuary making an honest living. *





			
				Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *  exactly one. *



ok, our total now rises to the amazing, incredible, unbelieveable  total of three honest people in Sanctuary (by book 9)

Rahi - “tinker who did a small side business in small arms, knives, and the like”, He was an “astonishing phenomenon, an honest tradesman”

Gonfred - “a goldsmith with a reputation for honesty”


----------



## Crothian

So, taken notes so you know who to rip off and target when we play?


----------



## Mr Fidgit

no, i'm just trying to be a good reasearch assistant  


			
				Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Guess I should start reading my TW books again, thank goodness my reading book collection is huge.  If I do, do you want me to take notes on what I find interesting? *



speaking of R.A.'s, where's Dragongirl? she's slackin'!

(hope everything's o.k.....)


----------



## Crothian

I was able to pick up two more TW books today.  Fianlly got a paperback copy of number 9, and City on the Edge of Time a Tempus book.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

i just finished #9 (and took notes...)


			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> *a Tempus book. *



i _really_ don't like that character


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *i just finished #9 (and took notes...)
> 
> i really don't like that character *




Cool on the notes part.  I think 6 out of my 7 Sanctuary novels focus on him.  Janet Morrus wrote a lot about the guy.  He's not a very likible character.

So, who are your favorite characters?


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Ha! i just _summoned_ Dragongirl!


----------



## Dragongirl

You rang?


----------



## Mr Fidgit

well...i liked the four-part trinity, until they were *murdered* 

i liked Illyra until her child was *murdered* 

..i'm sure i'll think of more later. i just don't like that such a despicable character is not only written about, but focused on and glorified


----------



## Crothian

Ya, people do tend to die.  Personally, I really like Dubro and Walegrin.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *You rang? *



i was just hoping everything was fine-and-dandy 


Dubro hasn't really been focused on too much in books 5-9, and it seems like Walegrin is just coming to the forefront of some of the stories in 9 (maybe there will be more in 10-12...)


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *You rang? *




So, who are your favorite characters?


----------



## Dragongirl

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *i was just hoping everything was fine-and-dandy *



Not really.

Hmm favorite characters . . .
1) Hanse Shadowspawn
2) Enos Yorl
3) Molin Torchholder
4) The Frost Daughter
5) Jubal


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *3) Molin Torchholder, 5) Jubal *



Torchholder?! he who killed the trinity?! 

he's a rat bastard and you know it    

jubal seems like a decent character...not too active though


----------



## Dragongirl

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *Torchholder?! he who killed the trinity?! *



Blasphemy!!  The dog yet lives!!!


----------



## Crothian

Jubal is more active in the early books.  Torchholder did what he had to do (or so he felt).  I was never a fan of hi8s until I read Sanctuary which really does him justice.  When you finish reading 1-12, I'll lend it to you.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Blasphemy!!  The dog yet lives!!! *



true, but i _just_ finished 9, so i haven't read about Tyr's impending revenge  

Get him, girl! Get him! Good dog.


----------



## Crothian

"The dog's name was Indiana!!"  

Sorry, it just seemed to fit really well.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

i may have asked this before, so i'll apologize in advance (sorry! )

do you think using a VP/WP system would better reflect the lethality of Sanctuary and TW? (i've also seen people post about a grim and gritty system, but i've never read any rules on it)

i just know there are _plenty_ of examples in the books where people were held at bay by a single crossbow, or dying from one solid hit from a weapon (even daggers)


----------



## Crothian

Ya, the VP/WP system is perfered since it is more lethal, and handles healing better.  My only problem with it is there is no subdual damage in it.  

Grim and Gritty was posted in one of the Asgard magazines.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

more on S'Danzo cards...

Lance of Air, Seven of Ships, Five of Ores, the Whirlwind, the Warfleet, the Iron Key, the Orb, Quicksilver, Acorn, Ocean, Emptiness (no picture descriptions)

(b10 pg220-1) the cards are called Amashkiki, 'The Guideposts of Vision'

The Termagant, old S'Danzo seeress, ”I take it you know that among the amashkiki there are five families [suits]: fire, ore, wood, water and air, as correspond to the five elements from which the universe was made. Each family is led by its Prime and defended by its Lance. There are, of course, cards which do not fall into the families...”

“The Lances defend. They are rigid, sharp-edged, defined. The Primes, though, are the start of things. And also the ends. Magicians like the Prime cards because they mean everything, you know. The appearance of a Prime simplifies the reading, she may have told you this; two Primes and it practically shouts. Five Primes is absurd...”

by the Termagant's examples, the Seven of Ships and the Lance of Ships (in the earlier post) are probably the Water cards


----------



## Crothian

THanks, info on the cards is always good.  Was it the same author who wrote both stories?


----------



## Mr Fidgit

nope

the first post was from Lady of Fire, by Diana L Paxson (Book 9) 

the second, Seeing is Believeing (But Love is Blind), Lynn Abbey (book 10)


----------



## Crothian

Hmm, I wonder if they got together to try to not step on each other's toes with the cards.  

New version of the Hawkmask and Hellhound posted in the other thread.


----------



## Crothian

Stepson prestige clas also psted.  All these are now 5 level varieties.  I think that works much better for these three classes.


----------



## WayneLigon

SF Site  has a series of interviews with the new authors of the new Thieve's World series, as well as a review of the first book and an interview with Lynn Abbey. Interesting reading.


----------



## Crothian

Very interesting read, thanks for pointing that out.  It looks like some of the things I diodn't like in the first series will be hopefully changed in this new one.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Blasphemy!!  The dog yet lives!!! *



just finished book 12, no revenge for Tyr  


three more cards...

Lady of the Forest - woman 'spirit with cobweb wings'

Lady of the Stones - woman sitting at a stone-weighted loom

Fifth of Air - 'scattering of petals floating away from a bouquet'  (b12p221)


----------



## Crothian

So, what did you think of the series?


----------



## Mr Fidgit

i just finished 5 - 12 (the only ones the library had), i'll let you know when i'm done with 1 - 4...


----------



## Mr Fidgit

i wish now i had taken better (or more complete) notes of the earlier books i've read. there's lots of little bits of information floating about the books, so it's difficult to piece together the entire 'thieves WORLD'. anyway, here's a short list of alcoholic beverages mentioned in a few of the stories...

Baladach wine - 
Red Gold - served at the Land's End races, and is Sly's 'best'
Red courage - a cheap red wine given to gladiators before they fight
Wizardwall red - 
Sweetboy Special - a 'good' beer
True Brew - beer
Vuksebah - expensive liquor, amber colored


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## Crothian

There's also Cat's Piss, the stuff served at the Vulger Unicorn.


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## Crothian

There is also Qualis, the best drink out there.  It can be made into a love potion or a very fine liqueor.


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## Mr Fidgit

magical happenings in Sanctuary - 

Ischade is a well-known witch and _vampire_ 

Targ (Cade's companion) is werewolf (or something very close)

Khamwas the wizard has an improved familiar called a manikin, named Tjainufi

Noteable, the cat, used to be a man


again, these are just a few of the things i've jotted down about the more _unusual_ things in Sanctuary (this, of course, doesn't include the plethora of wizards and several demi-gods living in the city....)


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## Crothian

I just updated some of the lesser races and added a few more.


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## Crothian

THings are really starting to fall together with this series.  As I do the research and writing this stuff the stories are not just coming back to me but making a lot more sense.  Mostly, the little details that I might have missed and not made conections with.


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