# Forked Thread: PS3 v. X-Box 360 - How Loud is Too Loud?"



## Steel_Wind (Jan 30, 2009)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> I've never heard a 360 that didn't sound like a chainsaw. Those that can't tell there's a _significant_ noise difference I suspect are in a tiny minority. (Lucky them, in a way.)




Just a quick note: we've talked a fair bit here and in a few other threads over the years about the noise issue and the Xbox 360.

I have a release model 360 which, to paraphrase Arnwyn, does, indeed, sound like a chainsaw when it is on.  I'm a big fan of the 360, but the noise issue has grown increasingly tiresome over the years - to the point where I really don't like playing with it anymore for that reason.

Enworld user John Chrichton has mentioned over the course of time the advantages that come with purchasing a newer version of the 360. In partcular, the 360 Elite, manufactured after August of 2007 includes both a HDMI port and a "Falcon" 360 system mobo/GPU design which uses a 65nm fabrication process for the GPU.  This smaller fabrication process of the GPU results in significantly less heat; this, in turn, leads to supposedly far quieter operation during normal idle mode on the 360.

Odd as it may seem given my recent acquisition of a PS3, just playing more console games on the PS3 lately has reminded me that I don't play with my 360 nearly enough due to the noise issue.   And yes, there are a helluva lot of 360 games that I have which are otherwise worth playing.

And perhaps more ot the point, there are a LOT of used games for the 360 which are dirt cheap that I might want to play if I found it more convenient and comfortable to play them.

So, long story short, I picked up a used 360 today. With some swapping of parts and a very helpful game shop owner (who is a client of mine) I effectively picked up a 360 Elite for under $300 CDN, inclulding three used games and a controller, all-in. 

The 120 gig HD on the Elite makes installing a game to the drive for reportedly much quieter play using the Fall 2008  dashboard, "360 Experience" a practical option; whereas my release model 20 gig HD just does not give me the space to do this for more that one or two games at a time + accomodate my saved games and XBL downloads. 

I intend to hook my new Elite up via HDMI, compare the relative noise levels during play  - and the sound during idle of each - and I'll report back.


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## Mallus (Jan 30, 2009)

I recently borrowed my friends Elite and was rather surprised to find the noise issue was not, in fact, hyperbole and actually a sizable pain in the as ears. When accessing a disk the Elite sounded like the paper shredder in my office. When not spinning a disk it was okay.


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## Arnwyn (Jan 30, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> So, long story short, I picked up a used 360 today. With some swapping of parts and a very helpful game shop owner (who is a client of mine) I effectively picked up a 360 Elite for under $300 CDN, inclulding three used games and a controller, all-in.



Sweet.



> The 120 gig HD on the Elite makes installing a game to the drive for reportedly much quieter play using the Fall 2008  dashboard, "360 Experience" a practical option;



As an aside: While I haven't looked hard, where is the option to do this? It's not obvious when I play around with the dashboard. (And, as a further aside, how the heck do I delete other profiles I 'accidentally' created, thanks to one poorly-designed 360 game that forced it on me when I tried a multiplayer game...?)


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## Felon (Jan 30, 2009)

The 360's fan doesn't catch my attention any more than my PC's fan does. Less, I suppose, since the box is situated off to the side of my TV stand. To those who really find the noise that unacceptable, I gotta wonder where there's is situated and what ambient noise is usually going on (or not going on) in their TV room.


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## Felon (Jan 30, 2009)

Arnwyn said:


> As an aside: While I haven't looked hard, where is the option to do this? It's not obvious when I play around with the dashboard.



When you're on the dashboard and there's an option to play the game by hitting the A (green) button, there should also be (displayed at the bottom) the option to bring up more options by hitting either the X or Y buttons (I forget which at the moment). Therein lies the "install to hard drive" option. Takes about 10 minutes.


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## Redrobes (Jan 30, 2009)

Said before say again - CD/DVD drive on 360 loud, DL game to HDD, 360 goes near silent. Nuff said.


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## Simplicity (Jan 30, 2009)

Mallus said:


> I recently borrowed my friends Elite and was rather surprised to find the noise issue was not, in fact, hyperbole and actually a sizable pain in the as ears. When accessing a disk the Elite sounded like the paper shredder in my office. When not spinning a disk it was okay.




You think the Elite is bad?  Ooooh boy.  The OP is talking about the release version 360.  Let me put it this way...   When I replaced my release version 360 with an Elite and turned it on, I almost thought it was broken because it was so quiet.

The XBox 360 on release was like a leafblower under your television.  It's the sound you'd imagine hearing in those classic Memorex ads.  It's like my Xbox360 is telling my PS3, "I'm sorry, but I can't hear you over how awesome I am and my large cooling fans."  When I turned it on, I expected to see Bill Paxton and flying cows is all I'm saying.

On the plus side, it has games on it.  Which is more than I can say for the Wii or the PS3.


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## Steel_Wind (Jan 31, 2009)

Simplicity said:


> You think the Elite is bad?  Ooooh boy.  The OP is talking about the release version 360.  Let me put it this way...   When I replaced my release version 360 with an Elite and turned it on, I almost thought it was broken because it was so quiet.
> 
> The XBox 360 on release was like a leafblower under your television.




Yes. Exactly. At least, I am sure as hell hoping that's my reaction.

The release version of the 360 is exceedingly loud.


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## Mallus (Jan 31, 2009)

Simplicity said:


> On the plus side, it has games on it.  Which is more than I can say for the Wii or the PS3.



There have been games for the PS3 for a while now. Haven't you heard the news? It's not just an excellent Blu-Ray player anymore...


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## John Crichton (Jan 31, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> So, long story short, I picked up a used 360 today. With some swapping of parts and a very helpful game shop owner (who is a client of mine) I effectively picked up a 360 Elite for under $300 CDN, inclulding three used games and a controller, all-in.



Nice price!



Steel_Wind said:


> Enworld user John Chrichton has mentioned over the course of time the advantages that come with purchasing a newer version of the 360. In partcular, the 360 Elite, manufactured after August of 2007 includes both a HDMI port and a "Falcon" 360 system mobo/GPU design which uses a 65nm fabrication process for the GPU.  This smaller fabrication process of the GPU results in significantly less heat; this, in turn, leads to supposedly far quieter operation during normal idle mode on the 360.





Steel_Wind said:


> The 120 gig HD on the Elite makes installing a game to the drive for reportedly much quieter play using the Fall 2008  dashboard, "360 Experience" a practical option; whereas my release model 20 gig HD just does not give me the space to do this for more that one or two games at a time + accomodate my saved games and XBL downloads.




Yup, the installs to the Hard Drive have made me play my 360 more.  Since the disc no longer has to spin, the noise accompanying it is nearly gone.  Coupled with the Elite model it's worked out really well.  I had a release model 360 for a while and it drove me crazy to the point of not playing it very often, like yourself.

I've only run into one game so far (DOAX2) that wouldn't install to the HD.  There may be more as I don't have a very large 360 game collection.  It also bears mentioning that I think load times are decreased a tiny bit on a few games.  I noticed it in Fable II and Tales of Vesperia.  Not a big deal and it may all be in my mind.


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## Redrobes (Jan 31, 2009)

John Crichton said:


> It also bears mentioning that I think load times are decreased a tiny bit on a few games.  I noticed it in Fable II and Tales of Vesperia.  Not a big deal and it may all be in my mind.



I would agree but Bungie reckons that their Halo3 loads slower when saved to HDD and recommends not to do it ! Their comment is that the game takes stuff from both HDD and disk at the same time. I think the current level of the game was taken from the disk and saved it to the HDD in a temp area, now it has to read the HDD and move a copy to the temp area before playing so its doing twice the HDD work but if you ask me the significant noise reduction and feeling that your box is not wearing itself or the disk out is definitely worth the effort of loading the game to the HDD. I have an Elite so maybe the release 360 was much louder I dont know - I suspect so after reading these posts. All I can say is that on my box its either a low issue or a non issue depending on whether the games been saved. Argue over whether the box has better games, interface or reliability maybe but the noise on an Elite version is no biggie.


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## Steel_Wind (Jan 31, 2009)

I can't frakkin' believe it.

I plugged the Elite 360 in last night, excited to turn it on and marvel at the peace and relative quiet of my new, noise reduced Xbox 360.

No plan survives contact with the enemy.  And this plan fell to shreds in 2 seconds as about 43db of fan noise ripped it _into little itsy bitsy pieces and buried it alive_.

It's *LOUDER*. My premium unit, with HDMI, manfactured in late September 2007 - should be quieter.  But it isn't. I didn't think it was possible, but it is perceptibly LOUDER than my release unit.

In fact, it is so loud, I can barely hear the DVD spin up during game play, that's how loud the twin 70mm fans are on this unit.

Install to disk? Tried, no perceptible change in noise level.  Unfrakkin' believable, but there it is.

The fans were so loud, I believe they may have obscured the chortling sounds my PS3  unit was making at the time.

I expect that there is a reason this "new" 360 unit was sold by its previous owner and I have now discovered the reason why.  I'll be bringing it back to the store on Monday - though I may end up keeping the hard drive.

With the $200 in refunded money, I think I will bite the bullet, and buy a Lian-li XB01 and some torx screwdrivers. I'll just mod my original release unit and, using my "new" 120 gig HD, install the hardware in an XB01.

The XB01 is designed for the sole purpose of giving the Xbox 360 a new home with a single, much quieter,  120mm fan. It also wraps the DVD unit in some sound insulation - but most people have not experienced reduced noise off of the DVD. The ambient fan noise, however, plummets. And the install to disk option in November 08 "Xbox Experience" update will remove the sound of the DVD. So... the XB01 should fix all of this.

*Plan B: * 







If somebody has some other advice or any further ideas, I'd be happy to hear em.


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## Vocenoctum (Feb 1, 2009)

Felon said:


> The 360's fan doesn't catch my attention any more than my PC's fan does. Less, I suppose, since the box is situated off to the side of my TV stand. To those who really find the noise that unacceptable, I gotta wonder where there's is situated and what ambient noise is usually going on (or not going on) in their TV room.




I can notice the noise of my 360, but it's never bothered me in the least. I accept that the 360 might be louder than another console, but no way is it equal to a chainsaw or anything like that.


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## Steel_Wind (Feb 1, 2009)

Vocenoctum said:


> I can notice the noise of my 360, but it's never bothered me in the least. I accept that the 360 might be louder than another console, but no way is it equal to a chainsaw or anything like that.




No. It isn't really a chainsaw. But it DOES do a credible impression of a Dust Devil hand vacuum.

And that is NOT cool and not ok.  

While I appreciate that your 360 may be a reasonably quiet model, the complaints of others all over the internet and the existence of $150 aftermarket cases whose only real purpose is to make the unit run quietly should tell you that the variation in noise level between the units can be extreme. 

Where there is this much smoke - there's got to be some fire.


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## drothgery (Feb 1, 2009)

It's probably worth mentioning that early-build Elites were not built with the 'Falcon' chipset with a 65 nm CPU/80 nm GPU; they were built with the 'Zephyr' chipset - which used the orignal 90 nm CPU and GPU, but had some modifications to make RRoDs less common and added an HDMI port. Late last year the 'Jasper' chipset -- with a 65 nm CPU and a 65 nm GPU -- made it into the wild.

If you've got a really loud Elite, it's probably a Zephyr, not a Falcon. If you're trying to get a relatively quiet 360, I think your best bet would be to grab a Jasper Arcade and swap the hard drive in. I never had any noise issues with my Falcon Elite, but I don't game all that much, and I may not be all that sensitive to it.


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## Mark Hope (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm one of the lucky ones to have a relatively quiet Xbox (bought just before Xmas last year).  I have started installing my games to its hard drive (hit the Y button when you're on the "play this game" blade to see the option to do this) and gotten very used to its near silence.  My son was playing a new game straight from the disc and I was surprised by how loud it sounded, now that I am accustomed to it not making any real noise.  Of course, as I mentioned in another thread, we do tend to crank the volume on the surround sound, though


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## Pants (Feb 1, 2009)

Personally, I've never had a problem with the noise on the XBox. Most of the time it runs pretty silently (at least, no louder than my PC). There was at least once or twice where it ran kinda loud, but I haven't heard it run that loud for a long time since.


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## Steel_Wind (Feb 1, 2009)

drothgery said:


> It's probably worth mentioning that early-build Elites were not built with the 'Falcon' chipset with a 65 nm CPU/80 nm GPU; they were built with the 'Zephyr' chipset - which used the orignal 90 nm CPU and GPU, but had some modifications to make RRoDs less common and added an HDMI port. Late last year the 'Jasper' chipset -- with a 65 nm CPU and a 65 nm GPU -- made it into the wild.
> 
> If you've got a really loud Elite, it's probably a Zephyr, not a Falcon. If you're trying to get a relatively quiet 360, I think your best bet would be to grab a Jasper Arcade and swap the hard drive in. I never had any noise issues with my Falcon Elite, but I don't game all that much, and I may not be all that sensitive to it.




I just checked the power connector and the voltage on the back. It is, *16,5A*. 

Chart says:

*12V Current Rating------------------------- Xbox 360 Revision *
16,5A..........................................................Zephyr 
14,2A..........................................................Falcon 
12,1A..........................................................Jasper 


That would suggest the model is in fact, a Zephyr - not a Falcon. A Zephyr build uses the same die size for the CPU and GPU that the release model uses.  That would not be good and, as you suggest, would fit the fact that is is very loud.

Problem is, the power connector on the console itself is missing the black square block in the middle, which suggests the unit is a Falcon, not a Zephyr.  








The mftr date of Spetember 29/07, being after August 24/07 suggests that it is a Falcon as well. 

I expect what is really going on here is explained by a build date of within about 5 weeks of when the Falcon's first started coming on to the market, At that time, there were parts shortages and a mix of parts in the mftr plant. Or perhaps better said,  plant*S*. (i.e., they were assembling these in more than one mftring location at the time).

They were using the parts they had in inventory at the time, and were using up old stock when they could, newer parts when they had run out of old parts. 

I got a new power connector as they had run out of old ones. The way Micrsoft's power connector design works is that a new power bar cannot be used to power an older design, but an older power bar can always be used to power a newer design. So. They may simply have run out of old power connectors at the time and I got a new Falcon one, but that, in itself, means nothing.

So I think it's fair to say that I really don't know what model my "newish" 360 is.  What we do know is that it's really, really loud on idle.

I have read up on the Jasper and, given the price point on a new Arcade model, this seems like sensible advice.

Keep the used hard 120 GB drive, bring back the rest. Apply refund to purchase of new Jasper model Arcade version of a 360 - assuming I can find one to buy. That gives me a reduced die fab on both the  CPU and the GPU and should result in significant noice reduction. 

Currently, both  the Jasper and the Falcon models are in the distro chain for the Xbox Arcade bundle. There are ways to check if it is a Zephyr or a Falcon from the info near the bar code, (so the article says), but I can tell you from my own odd experience in checking the above discussed "loud  Flacon", that at least some of the info in this article which presents itself as _certainty _could well be wrong.

Anyways, the Jasper route + used hard drive seems to be good advice. It gives the added bonus of a new warranty, too. I think I'll go that route instead of an XB-01.


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## Vocenoctum (Feb 1, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> I have a release model 360 which, to paraphrase Arnwyn, does, indeed, sound like a chainsaw when it is on.






Steel_Wind said:


> No. It isn't really a chainsaw. But it DOES do a credible impression of a Dust Devil hand vacuum.



Sure, but hyperbole shouldn't include "does indeed" and other such "this is truth" statements.




> And that is NOT cool and not ok.
> 
> While I appreciate that your 360 may be a reasonably quiet model,




I'm not saying mine is a reasonably queit model, so much as that any noise it makes is background noise that is not noticeably game-detering. I've had a first gen, a replacement for that, and now an elite and none were Dust Devil loud. I don't believe my unit is better, so much as that I don't focus on the noise.



> the complaints of others all over the internet and the existence of $150 aftermarket cases whose only real purpose is to make the unit run quietly should tell you that the variation in noise level between the units can be extreme.
> 
> Where there is this much smoke - there's got to be some fire.




Complaints about everything are all over the internet, and the existence of an aftermarket product to assuage "media" hyped fears is a staple of the economy. 

Don't get me wrong, if you hate the noise your 360 makes and want to complain because venting makes you feel better, than by all means. I just don't see why the issue has to be so blown out of proportion.


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## Arnwyn (Feb 2, 2009)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> but no way is it equal to a chainsaw or anything like that.



Ah, the internet. When even the tiniest bit of hyperbole is present, the literalists come out in force. Shame on all of us, I guess.



Vocenoctum said:


> Complaints about everything are all over the internet, and the existence of an aftermarket product to assuage "media" hyped fears is a staple of the economy.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, if you hate the noise your 360 makes and want to complain because venting makes you feel better, than by all means. I just don't see why the issue has to be so blown out of proportion.



How is it being "blown out of proportion"? Are you denying the problem exists?

Or, alternately:
Don't get me wrong. If you feel the need to defend one of the more prominent flaws of the 360 because it makes you feel better, then by all means. I just don't see why a widespread problem has to be ignored and swept under the rug.


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## Felon (Feb 2, 2009)

Arnwyn said:


> Ah, the internet. When even the tiniest bit of hyperbole is present, the literalists come out in force. Shame on all of us, I guess.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. If you feel the need to defend one of the more prominent flaws of the 360 because it makes you feel better, then by all means. I just don't see why a widespread problem has to be ignored and swept under the rug.



How coy. So, exaggerating the issue with hyperbole should just be regarded as good, clean, internet fun, but should someone else take issue with the exaggeration, then label that guy as a literalist with a personal agenda trying to sweep the matter under the rug. The thing is, that all comes from someone who seems to crop in just about any thread where there's even a hint of an opportunity to side against the 360. So, while we're tracking agendas, when do you project that your heavily-biased axe will be sufficiently grinded (ground? grinded? whatever)?


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## Arnwyn (Feb 2, 2009)

Felon said:


> How coy. So, exaggerating the issue with hyperbole should just be regarded as good, clean, internet fun, but should someone else take issue with the exaggeration, then label that guy as a literalist with a personal agenda trying to sweep the matter under the rug.



Heh. Well, not really. The "shame on all of us" comment was putting blame on _both_ sides. I just hate the Internet Literalists more than the Internet Hyperbolists - the way I worded it was just my bias showing!



> The thing is, that all comes from someone who seems to crop in just about any thread where there's even a hint of an opportunity to side against the 360. So, while we're tracking agendas, when do you project that your heavily-biased axe will be sufficiently grinded (ground? grinded? whatever)?



*shrug* Just noting my experience with my 360 (which I do own, BTW), "cropping into threads" when it's slow at the office. I'm not one for console wars. Whatever, d00d - love your 360 'til you're blue in the face. Don't let me stop you.


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## Banshee16 (Feb 3, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> I just checked the power connector and the voltage on the back. It is, *16,5A*.
> 
> Chart says:
> 
> ...




Try looking for units with a lot number higher than 843, I believe.....and manufactured in the second half of October 2008 or later.  I think that increases your chances of finding a Jasper.  I've looked at Future Shop, but every time I try, the bloody sales guy walks over and starts harrassing me about whether he can assist.  And no, I'm not damaging the boxes looking for the power rating (which forces you to peel back the cardboard on the left side of that little window at the top of the box.

Supposedly Canada will get shipments a lot later than the U.S. and U.K.

Banshee


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## Aus_Snow (Feb 3, 2009)

The only 360 I tend to come into contact with these days is a Premium (65nm Falcon, I believe) and, to my ears, it's fairly quiet. Granted, my PC isn't _silent_ either, but it's hardly a chainsaw or the like. Actually, on the quiet end for a decent games machine, thanks to a sturdy & good quality case, excellent power supply, non-reference-cooling 4800-series graphics card, and quiet fans. And yeah, said PC is what I tend to judge other machines by. Including consoles.

Haven't heard one of the roaring beasts, but I'm willing to believe that they exist. Even the old PS2 wasn't all _that_ quiet, IIRC.


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## Vocenoctum (Feb 3, 2009)

Arnwyn said:


> Ah, the internet. When even the tiniest bit of hyperbole is present, the literalists come out in force. Shame on all of us, I guess.




The "literalist" comes out when some one goes from "this thing is as loud as a chainsaw!" to claiming that it is Truth, by such means as "does indeed" or other means. Hyperbole is exaggerating for effect, not claiming that it's the truth, as it were.




> How is it being "blown out of proportion"? Are you denying the problem exists?
> 
> Or, alternately:
> Don't get me wrong. If you feel the need to defend one of the more prominent flaws of the 360 because it makes you feel better, then by all means. I just don't see why a widespread problem has to be ignored and swept under the rug.




What I'm saying it, it's subjective, depending on location of box, phase of the moon, tolerance of the hearer, and 3,000 other things. And it's not so much sweeping a problem under the rug, this thread was forked from a dead thread to raise the subject. 

"The 360 makes a lot of noise!"
"Yes, we know, so?"

None of us are new posters that are raising an issue we just became aware of.


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 14, 2009)

***Update** Res Evil 5 Elite - Limited Edition*

To update on the initial post, there have been some developments since January...

****************

I've gone on quite a tear of buying PS3 games since - and several 360 games too. But most of all - I've been trying to get a satisfactory 360 to play these 360 games on.

*Attempt No 1: *I bought a Falcon 360 system in January - and it was noisier than my release system. Turns out it had its fans modded to full blast by my local game shop. That wouldn't do. 

*Attempt No. 2:* I bought a used Falcon to repair off of eBay - and the seller lied to me. It wasn't just broken; it was outright missing parts. A hopeless mess of not even usable spare parts. *sigh*

*Attempt No. 3:* I bought a suposedly brand new Jasper Arcade off of eBay - and it turns out the seller lied to me and ripped me off. It was not a Jasper - it was a Falcon. Seeing as there were no Japsers to get in Canada at the time... I took the risk of eBay and got hosed on it. *sigh*

*Attempt No. 4: *All of that went by the wayside today as I picked up a brand new Resident Evil 5 Elite Limited Edition of the Xbox 360. This new Elite 360 uses the new Jasper motherboard/ 65nm GPU.

The results? In a word: *Fan-frakkin-tastic*.

*When idling, my Elite system can barely be heard. It is actually at a noise level equal to my PS3. *

I would not have believed it possible that a 360 could be that quiet. But, finally, Miocrosoft has delivered me hardware that _almost_ can't be heard when it is on.

True, that illusion is shattered as a game spins up on the DVD drive - but I can install to hard drive to remove that issue - and I will. 

If I was to actually use my 360 to stream media, I could reasonably do so. (I expect I will continue to use my PS3 for that purpose). Still - AMAZING.

Noise level on the Res Evil Elite 360 is a knock-it-out-of-the-park homerun for Microsoft as far as I am concerned.

I've avoided the RROD so far in my 360 experience. I hope that continues.

As for Res Evil 5 itself? I couldn't tell you. The machine won't read the disc. It reads the rest of my discs - so it's not the machine - it's the Res Evil 5 disc. A little shadow on an otherwise sunny out of box experience, but I'll live with it until Monday when I'll get a working copy from my FLGS.

Right now, I've got more than enough games to keep me busy! Game on!


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## Simplicity (Mar 17, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> To update on the initial post, there have been some developments since January...
> 
> ****************
> 
> ...




What an annoying amount of effort.  Glad it finally worked out for you.


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## fba827 (Mar 17, 2009)

how can you tell whether it's jasper/falcon?


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## John Crichton (Mar 17, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> The results? In a word: *Fan-frakkin-tastic*.





Congrats on getting the helicopter removed from your media area.


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## Redrobes (Mar 18, 2009)

I bought an Elite about year and half ago - god knows what type it is and its not quiet with the CD running but its pretty quiet - not silent - but not at all loud. So I am glad its not just me. If you install the game to the HDD then its sat there about as quiet as my PC. I have mine on a small UPS too in case of dodgy mains causing RROD - so far I have been spared.

Oh yeah, an Ebay is the pit of doooom - dont go there man.


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 19, 2009)

fba827 said:


> how can you tell whether it's jasper/falcon?




See the post above with the voltage rail details and the graphic of the different power connectors on the 360.

It's 12,1a, with the Jasper power connector. (And a 150W power bar).

Most defninitely a Jasper.


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