# GOP candidates VS entropy



## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 31, 2015)

Many of the GOP candidates want a fence between the USA & Mexico.  

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/us/walls-along-borders-nothing-new/

Now, Scott Walker has floated the idea of walling us off from Canada as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/30/politics/scott-walker-northern-border-immigration-2016/

Not that walls of that kind of scale actually work as intended for any appreciable length of time.  Very expensive things, walls, both to build and to maintain.

Robert Frost may have hinted at this in the past.



> MENDING WALL
> Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
> That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
> And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
> ...




Meanwhile, in the EU, countries seem to be doing OK without expensive fences or walls...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/travel/cnnphotos-borderline/


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Aug 31, 2015)

Meh, Pat Buchanan was talking about isolating the U.S. from foreigners years ago. The GOP hasn't changed from his day. This shouldn't be surprising. Seriously, all you have to do is put up a few stories of brown people crossing over the Canadian border, and the GOP will be demanding a wall that cuts across that border as well.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 31, 2015)

What about the seas and the illegals who use it to come to the US? What about ISIS members who will dig under the US to blow it up? What about aliens from space?

Obviously, the US needs a super cube to protect it from all sides. 

SuperCube for president!


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Aug 31, 2015)

goldomark said:


> What about the seas and the illegals who use it to come to the US? What about ISIS members who will dig under the US to blow it up? What about aliens from space?
> 
> Obviously, the US needs a super cube to protect it from all sides.
> 
> SuperCube for president!




It'll be a super cube made up of anti-immigrant walls. Trump will get the rest of the world to pay for it.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 31, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Many of the GOP candidates want a fence between the USA & Mexico.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/us/walls-along-borders-nothing-new/
> 
> ...



But of course there are now EU states that want to erect border fences, or are actively erecting border fences - across the European borders to non-EU states so that all the refugees that flee war zones like in Syria don't get into the EU.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 31, 2015)

True.  But I doubt their efforts are going to be any more successful than any previous attempts at using walls to sove border issues.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 31, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> It'll be a super cube made up of anti-immigrant walls. Trump will get the rest of the world to pay for it.




And anyone who crosses the cube will be automatically tracked by Fedex.


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## Mallus (Aug 31, 2015)

Let's go all-in and build a giant dome! Domes are cool!

(and Scott Walker's stupidity never ceases to amaze me)


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## Kramodlog (Aug 31, 2015)

America, wake up! Do not fall for the false idol that are domes. Sure, they looks less threatening with their lack of pointy edges, you can't lose an eye on a dome, and sure they remind you of your mother's breasts, but do you want immigrants to see their mother breast when they see America? No, that would mean they see America as something they can suckle on? You want them to feel fear to feel fear and only sharp corners can give you that! Yeah, come to America and risk losing an eye! 

Domes do not, I repeat, do not protect us from what is below us. Mole people can still invade America with a dome over it. And some member of the CIA told me that ISIS has approached the Mole people, folks. Be warn.

Good old American made Super Cubes are the way to go. Not those Chinese made domes.


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## billd91 (Aug 31, 2015)

I wish it amazed me. But I live in Wisconsin. It just dismays me now. And he's such a weasel. Someone will introduce something his administration has had a hand in drafting, like attacking the Wisconsin Idea embedded in the state university system's charter, provoke immediate backlash, and then try to say "Now how did that happen? Oh, it must have been a drafting error." Then a little investigation into the open records shows it was clearly deliberate, so they then try to remove the open records laws only to suffer another immediate backlash and respond with "Now how did that happen?" again. *Worst* governor of Wisconsin in my lifetime. Far worse even than Tommy Thompson whose cronyism was legendary. At least when the GOP had power then, they weren't attacking minority voting rights.


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## gamerprinter (Aug 31, 2015)

Most illegal immigrants to the US came here legally with Visas that are now expired - walls cannot stop that. And of the drug traffickers, digging a tunnel under a wall seems a common and easy solution to passing walls. Walls are ugly, expensive and only offer a false sense of security.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 31, 2015)

There's also all that non-fenceable coastal area.


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## Mallus (Aug 31, 2015)

goldomark said:


> Good old American made Super Cubes are the way to go. Not those Chinese made domes.



You know who else liked cubes? Brutalists. That's some straight-up European Socialist or Fascist or, like French shi stuff. 

Domes are as American as _Logan's Run_!


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## Umbran (Aug 31, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> There's also all that non-fenceable coastal area.




It better be fenceable!  'Cause the GOP is on target to do squat-all about rising sea levels.  If Trump *doesn't* build a sea wall, all his real estate will be under water, and I don't think the mer-people are going to be much of a market...


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## Umbran (Aug 31, 2015)

goldomark said:


> Domes do not, I repeat, do not protect us from what is below us. Mole people can still invade America with a dome over it.




You would discriminate against the indigenous Molish-Americans, which is not acceptable.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 31, 2015)

Umbran said:


> It better be fenceable!  'Cause the GOP is on target to do squat-all about rising sea levels.  If Trump *doesn't* build a sea wall, all his real estate will be under water, and I don't think the mer-people are going to be much of a market...




Merfolk like beachfront property.  They just like it from the other side.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Sep 1, 2015)

The wall isn't to keep Canadians out; it's to keep Americans in.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 1, 2015)

Snake Pliskin returns in...

ESCAPE THROUGH MILWAUKEE


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## Kramodlog (Sep 1, 2015)

In all seriousness, I have to hand it to Walker. Finally! Someone else understand the evil of Canadians and why we want independence. Be afraid, Southerners, be very afraid. The Northern Wall is your friend.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 1, 2015)

On a related note, Trump just kicked Bush in the nuts. Hard. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-for-calling-illegal-immigration-act-of-love/


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## Umbran (Sep 1, 2015)

And, the relevant Borowitz Report:  Nation with Crumbling Bridges and Roads Excited to Build Giant Wall


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 1, 2015)

The Farce is strong in that one.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 1, 2015)

Some telling facts:
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/a-brief-history-of-the-us-border-wall-128063025406.html


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## Kramodlog (Sep 2, 2015)

A wild Mitt Romney (re)appears. http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/us_politics/2015/09/gop_insiders_mulling_mitt_romney


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## Mallus (Sep 2, 2015)

That isn't going to be super-effective.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 2, 2015)

Mitt isn't the solution.

The GOP needs some honest self-analysis, a hard look at USA population demographics, and (ideally) lessons on economics.

Which _may_ mean a split in the party.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 3, 2015)

> “He’s a nice man. But he should really set the example by speaking English while in the United States,” Mr. Trump told Breitbart News in an interview.



http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...p-says-jeb-bush-should-stop-speaking-spanish/

Wow.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 3, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Mitt isn't the solution.
> 
> The GOP needs some honest self-analysis, a hard look at USA population demographics, and (ideally) lessons on economics.
> 
> Which _may_ mean a split in the party.




They've done that self-analysis. Turns out the GOP is like a coke head that thinks they don't have a problem. A couple of years ago Michael Steele came out touting how this was a new GOP, and how they were the party of the future, the party of... Ronald Reagan. So yeah, that self-analysis isn't working.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 3, 2015)

You missed the word "honest" in there.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 3, 2015)

No, actually, I believe they were honest in their self-analysis. The problem is that they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing. They honestly believe that they aren't being racist, sexist, intolerant, etc.


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## Sacrosanct (Sep 3, 2015)

Clearly the best solution is to build the wall out of the bodies of the immigrants we kill who tried to cross.  You get the psychological effect there.  Like in 300.


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## MechaPilot (Sep 3, 2015)

I'm surprised the GOP favors building a wall.  Don't they know walls are communist?


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## Umbran (Sep 3, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> You missed the word "honest" in there.




I have been forced to consider the unfortunate option that they are honest.  "Honest" does not equate to, "Give a fetid dingo's kidney for the results down the road."


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 3, 2015)

Between points by Umbran and The Squirrel, I may have to reconsider my choice of words...

"Objective", perhaps?


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## Kramodlog (Sep 3, 2015)

Objectivity can never be reach as were are always looking at thing through our subjectivity.


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## Umbran (Sep 3, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Between points by Umbran and The Squirrel, I may have to reconsider my choice of words...
> 
> "Objective", perhaps?




I'd vote for "responsible".  They need some *responsible* self-analysis.  I don't think you'll get it until we drastically reduce the influence of corporate money on politics.  

I am waiting for someone to put together a case for treason against an elected official for taking money from a corporation...


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## tuxgeo (Sep 3, 2015)

In other news of GOP presidential candidates: 

_The Donald_ reportedly signed a pledge today to support the Republican nominee for President, regardless of who that turns out to be; and to refrain from running as a candidate for any other party (in 2016?). 

They had to issue a corrected pledge form, however, because the original one he signed had been dated "August 3, 2015."


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## Sacrosanct (Sep 3, 2015)

tuxgeo said:


> In other news of GOP presidential candidates:
> 
> _The Donald_ reportedly signed a pledge today to support the Republican nominee for President, regardless of who that turns out to be; and to refrain from running as a candidate for any other party (in 2016?).
> 
> They had to issue a corrected pledge form, however, because the original one he signed had been dated "August 3, 2015."




Ironically, his statement of "I pledge allegiance to the republican party" just shows how concerning it is.  A president should represent all Americans, not just those in the GOP. If you place the GOP above the rest of Americans, that's just downright scary.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 3, 2015)

Sacrosanct said:


> Ironically, his statement of "I pledge allegiance to the republican party" just shows how concerning it is.  A president should represent all Americans, not just those in the GOP. If you place the GOP above the rest of Americans, that's just downright scary.



You actually believed the GOP propaganda regarding their patriotism?


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## GrayLinnorm (Sep 4, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I'm surprised the GOP favors building a wall.  Don't they know walls are communist?
> 
> 
> View attachment 70087




They are from the RED states.


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

I was very saddened to see the anti-immigrant sentiment hit here in Boston recently. My wife is an immigrant (she has a green card). A lot of Anericans are really ignorant on this subject. Case in point someone speaking English with a heavy accent speaks the language, yet you see people respond to accents and few minor grammar errors with 'speak the language'


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

I spent 3 years as an Army Brat in Germany- never once did a native say anything like that to me or my family.

My Dad- an amateur historian among other things- reminds me constantly about how xenophobic and nativist Americans have been over our country's brief history.


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## Umbran (Sep 9, 2015)

Bedrockgames said:


> I was very saddened to see the anti-immigrant sentiment hit here in Boston recently.




It is sadly ironic, really.  The Italian and Irish communities right here in Boston saw the same sentiments back in their time.  You'd think they'd have learned.


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## MechaPilot (Sep 9, 2015)

Umbran said:


> It is sadly ironic, really.  The Italian and Irish communities right here in Boston saw the same sentiments back in their time.  You'd think they'd have learned.




I once heard a comedian describe it as the sociological equivalent of being "jumped in" to a gang, or the brutal hazing of a frat.


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## Umbran (Sep 9, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I once heard a comedian describe it as the sociological equivalent of being "jumped in" to a gang, or the brutal hazing of a frat.




Except hazing is deliberate - you do it to the next person with the *intent* of creating a bonding experience.  The frat *wants* you, and treats you badly.

We do it to new waves of immigrants because we are scared and want someone to hate.


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## Janx (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> True.  But I doubt their efforts are going to be any more successful than any previous attempts at using walls to sove border issues.




How did that wall East Germany had do?

I recall that being a pretty nasty beast with guards and people being shot at as they tried to cross. The very symbol of what it means to truly keep people/in out across an entire county's border should be associated with the evil of East Germany's wall.


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## Janx (Sep 9, 2015)

Bedrockgames said:


> I was very saddened to see the anti-immigrant sentiment hit here in Boston recently. My wife is an immigrant (she has a green card). A lot of Anericans are really ignorant on this subject. Case in point someone speaking English with a heavy accent speaks the language, yet you see people respond to accents and few minor grammar errors with 'speak the language'




No offense to the good people of Boston, but by the stories I hear, Bostonians are dicks.

One of my better bosses got moved back out there when her husband took a VP job and transferred to the facility out there.  During the 5 or so years she lived there, her neighbors still called her place by it's old neighbors name.  Nobody on campus was friendly or would say hello.  This went on for years.  Folks out there are cold and slow to warm up to people.  That's probably not all people, but as a general trend, yeah, I can see them being anti-immigrant as just an extension of that non-friendly to new folk attitude.


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## Umbran (Sep 9, 2015)

Janx said:


> No offense to the good people of Boston, but by the stories I hear, Bostonians are dicks.




With respect... everyone everywhere are dicks.  There are some local variations on the theme - Bostonian dickishness may a bit different from San Franciscan dickishness, and that's different from the several flavors you'll find in Texas.  You may have become inured to your own local threat-each-other-poorly styles, so you don't notice them as much, but they are there.  

And, to be clear, it isn't like the US is alone in this.  Italy's fully of jerks.  So is England.  In many areas of the world, factions of horrible people are shooting at each other, and have been for decades.   

Heck, they say Canadians are all polite and nice... but I met a horrible Canadian.  Maybe like a scapegoat (or the horrible ST:TNG episode in which Tasha Yar dies) Canada sloughed off all it's ugly on this guy, and shipped him out.  I met him in Italy, where, in a room with four people, two of them women, one of those being the teacher of a class he elected to take, he made misogynistic jokes and comments *all day*.  Crashing boor, all the way.


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## tomBitonti (Sep 9, 2015)

Janx said:


> How did that wall East Germany had do?
> 
> I recall that being a pretty nasty beast with guards and people being shot at as they tried to cross. The very symbol of what it means to truly keep people/in out across an entire county's border should be associated with the evil of East Germany's wall.




Was the wall along the entire border between the two parts of Germany, or just around West Berlin?

I agree with your point, but wanting to clarify a detail.

Thx!

TomB


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## Umbran (Sep 9, 2015)

tomBitonti said:


> Was the wall along the entire border between the two parts of Germany, or just around West Berlin?




There were two separate borders - one between East and West Germany, and one around West Berlin, which was an enclave within East Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_German_border

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

People braved crossing the Berlin Wall all the time.  Some succeeded, others didn't.  Ditto the IGB.

Combined, their length was MUCH smaller than the wall between Mexico and the USA would be...and, while erected at great expense, are also gone.

The people who lived on the side controlled by those who erected it suffered through enormous hardships, and maintenance and monitoring was ruinously expensive.

IOW, big, showy economic disaster.  It helped ruin East Germany's economy.

And much the same could be said of the Great Wall of China.  Sure, it helped keep out invading armies, but it also was key in the cultural and economic stagnation of China.


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

Janx said:


> No offense to the good people of Boston, but by the stories I hear, Bostonians are dicks.
> 
> One of my better bosses got moved back out there when her husband took a VP job and transferred to the facility out there.  During the 5 or so years she lived there, her neighbors still called her place by it's old neighbors name.  Nobody on campus was friendly or would say hello.  This went on for years.  Folks out there are cold and slow to warm up to people.  That's probably not all people, but as a general trend, yeah, I can see them being anti-immigrant as just an extension of that non-friendly to new folk attitude.




Well, I wouldn't go by one person's account. There is the saying that if everyone you meet in a day is an A hole, maybe your the A hole. Not saying that was the case there, but if everyone in the neighborhood was rude to them, it is certainly possible they were doing something to cause it. Some of this is culture as well. I had relatives in the south and they knew how to be painfully nice to your face but speak in code to make fun of you. Here people just may be more blunt. 

Boston has a reputation for more Racism than some other places. I'm honestly not sure how it compares to other states. You certainly do see it in some places of Boston, but I spent five years in Southern California as a kid (moving there from here) and I encountered a lot more blatant racism in that area. Boston is the kind of place where ethnic identity still does matter, that might be part of it. When I was a kid I remember encounter a lot of ignorance in Mass about Cambodians and other immigrant groups that were just starting to come in large numbers. But most of us are also descendants of immigrants ourselves whose grandparents were excluded by the old New England families and culture. 

That said, being a dick and being a racist are two very different things in my view. I've met plenty of dicks who wouldn't do what those two guys did. They did that because they were violent racists. I'm not going to throw the cabby who gave me the finger in the same category as the duo that beat up a Mexican migrant worker.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

> That said, being a dick and being a racist are two very different things in my view.




I'm thinking the Venn Diagram would look like the R circle being wholly within the D circle, myself...


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I'm thinking the Venn Diagram would look like the R circle being wholly within the D circle, myself...




Many of the most atrocious racists I met were incredibly polite and by most other measures, good people. I've met nasty and mean racists too. But I don't know there is a causal link there. There might be some overlap. Haven't seen it myself. Whole swaths of the country with reputation for being polite and not being dickish were some of the areas where racism was most pervasive during Jim Crow.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

As a nonwhite person*, I pretty much have to consider racists as dicks.  This is not to say that they can't be nice- as I have often said, nobody is unalloyed evil or good.

But racism is one of those things that, no matter how charming you are, no matter the contexts &  circumstances under which you can be nice to fellow human beings, you're a dick.  (Likewise, see Serial Killers.)

I'm a born southerner, myself.  Lived in one part or another for 75%+ of my life.  I know about southern hospitality and racism.  Nice though some of those racists were to my face, they were dicks when I wasn't around.  A concealed dick is still a dick.







* not that nonwhites can't be racists.  They can be, don't let anyone tell you differently.  My beloved paternal aunt is one...but she's a dick.


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> As a nonwhite person*, I pretty much have to consider racists as dicks.  This is not to say that they can't be nice- as I have often said, nobody is unalloyed evil or good.
> 
> But racism is one of those things that, no matter how charming you are, no matter the contexts &  circumstances under which you can be nice to fellow human beings, you're a dick.  (Likewise, see Serial Killers.)
> * not that nonwhites can't be racists.  They can be, don't let anyone tell you differently.  My beloved paternal aunt is one...but she's a dick.




Sure, but I figured by Dick people meant "overtly rude".


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

Dicks vary in their overtness.  And magnitude.


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## tomBitonti (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And much the same could be said of the Great Wall of China.  Sure, it helped keep out invading armies, but it also was key in the cultural and economic stagnation of China.




I read somewhere that one of the reasons for building the Great Wall was to use up all available labor, basically, to prevent regions from having idle men who might foment rebellion.

Thx!

TomB


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## Janx (Sep 9, 2015)

Umbran said:


> With respect... everyone everywhere are dicks.  There are some local variations on the theme - Bostonian dickishness may a bit different from San Franciscan dickishness, and that's different from the several flavors you'll find in Texas.  You may have become inured to your own local threat-each-other-poorly styles, so you don't notice them as much, but they are there.
> 
> And, to be clear, it isn't like the US is alone in this.  Italy's fully of jerks.  So is England.  In many areas of the world, factions of horrible people are shooting at each other, and have been for decades.
> 
> Heck, they say Canadians are all polite and nice... but I met a horrible Canadian.  Maybe like a scapegoat (or the horrible ST:TNG episode in which Tasha Yar dies) Canada sloughed off all it's ugly on this guy, and shipped him out.  I met him in Italy, where, in a room with four people, two of them women, one of those being the teacher of a class he elected to take, he made misogynistic jokes and comments *all day*.  Crashing boor, all the way.




That's probably true, though from what I can tell of stereotypes TX and MN are pretty welcoming states normally (check out the How to Speak Minnesotan video if you can find it).  Barring racial issues, both MN/TX tend to be "hey, how are you, welcome to XYZ, where ya staying, can I help you find something".  Out east tends to be don't talk or look at me until I've known you for at least 10 years (per the stereotype of US-easterners ala Boston, NY, etc).

By old boss was a native Bostonian actually.  A very nice person.  She found it hard to get into the social groove out there for years, and it was obvious that there were some cultural differences in how they roll out there.  I had her performing social science experiments on the folks in her office, just to test this (things like saying hi to people when they passed, etc).

I'm sure it's not an absolute that all of Boston is like that, but over the years, I've seen a few clues that they aren't as friendly out there.  Assuming close-off, reserved behavior is a trait more prevalent, that leads to more isolationist, and eventually racist behavior.

I could be way off, it's just an observation that I don't get the sense that Bostonians are all that welcoming.  Conversely, in business, I've had pretty warm welcomes from clients in Philadelphia and NJ.  Whereas the folks in FL are dicks.  I think business relationships color the welcome, so that's not wholly useful a measuring stick as somebody moving into the area and trying to get into the social groove, ala the problem immigrants face on a higher scale.


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## Janx (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Dicks vary in their overtness.  And magnitude.




and girth.


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## Janx (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> As a nonwhite person*, I pretty much have to consider racists as dicks.  This is not to say that they can't be nice- as I have often said, nobody is unalloyed evil or good.
> 
> But racism is one of those things that, no matter how charming you are, no matter the contexts &  circumstances under which you can be nice to fellow human beings, you're a dick.  (Likewise, see Serial Killers.)
> 
> ...




I see some circles of Venn that you seem to be talking about:

I might imagine that a person may not be a dick in all situations or to all people (aka racist).  So a person who is genuinely nice to people of their own kind isn't a dick all the time.  Once the race situation comes into play, bang, they enter dick mode.
Would we classify them as a dick then, even though it doesn't cover all situations?  What if that person only enters racist mode 3 times in their life (because they live in an all-same town)?

Likewise, how we define racism may or may not include dick-ish behavior.

What if I think black people are better at sports than white people (Not my actual view).  Is that racist?
If it is, how does that align with being a dick or exhibiting dickish behavior?  So what if I think black people are better at sports?  They might mean that I avoid playing basketball with Danny because I know he'll beat me badly every time so it's not fun.

That doesn't mean I've treated him badly, or said anything mean, or even hurt his feelings.  It's not necessarily any different than Danny refusing to play WarHammer with me because he hates wargames in terms of how we treat each other or decline the invitation.


Anyway, I see shades of grey.  Some people truly are dicks.  Some people are dicks sometimes.  Some people are racist in a bad way.  Some people have racist ideas that don't grossly impact others.
In an ideal world, everybody would be nice, helpful, honest, courteous, respectful to everybody, and wouldn't have preconceived notions about any individual or group of people or treat anybody differently.


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

Janx said:


> That's probably true, though from what I can tell of stereotypes TX and MN are pretty welcoming states normally (check out the How to Speak Minnesotan video if you can find it).  Barring racial issues, both MN/TX tend to be "hey, how are you, welcome to XYZ, where ya staying, can I help you find something".  Out east tends to be don't talk or look at me until I've known you for at least 10 years (per the stereotype of US-easterners ala Boston, NY, etc).
> 
> By old boss was a native Bostonian actually.  A very nice person.  She found it hard to get into the social groove out there for years, and it was obvious that there were some cultural differences in how they roll out there.  I had her performing social science experiments on the folks in her office, just to test this (things like saying hi to people when they passed, etc).
> 
> ...




This reasoning seems pretty speculative to me. I am not saying folks here are bright and welcoming, but I think drawing a line of causation between that and racism, is flawed when you look at where racism has been really strong in the US in its history. How likely people are to say "Howdy" to newcomers, doesn't really seem to be a major factor. Also you are not likely to find as much support in mass for the kinds of policies that are hostile to immigrants as you will in more conservative states. Obviously the recent attack by the guys in Boston on an immigrant means there are people here who are hostile and that troubles me because my wife is an immigrant, but I think this could happen in any number of states and people shouldn't dismiss it as an aberration that just blew up in Boston. There has been simmering hostility in the US against immigrants for many years now. It is the "They take our jobs" mentality that is really rising to the surface and guys like Trump are tapping into. And if racism does exist in mass in greater quantity than elsewhere I'd still be cautious about pinning it on our public manners. The more likely cause is ignorance and people feeling a need to blame someone else for their own problems.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

> Would we classify them as a dick then, even though it doesn't cover all situations? What if that person only enters racist mode 3 times in their life (because they live in an all-same town)?




Can we agree that all serial killers are dicks?  No reservations?

Yet- like racists- they're not acting like dicks 24/7.  Serial killers do not kill people all day long.  Most have day jobs.  Most interact with other people in a chummy way most of the day without...well...turning them into chum.

But once their behavior is known, pretty much, people will call them dicks.

All that, ditto pedos.

Well, I'm really not going to say racists are different from those 2 above, except in the sense that racists can change.  But if they don't?

When the Egyptian god Wheaton-Re weighs the Feather of Maat against the unrepentant racist's soul, he will be judged a dick.

IMHOtep, of course.


----------



## Janx (Sep 9, 2015)

Bedrockgames said:


> This reasoning seems pretty speculative to me. I am not saying folks here are bright and welcoming, but I think drawing a line of causation between that and racism, is flawed when you look at where racism has been really strong in the US in its history. How likely people are to say "Howdy" to newcomers, doesn't really seem to be a major factor. Also you are not likely to find as much support in mass for the kinds of policies that are hostile to immigrants as you will in more conservative states. Obviously the recent attack by the guys in Boston on an immigrant means there are people here who are hostile and that troubles me because my wife is an immigrant, but I think this could happen in any number of states and people shouldn't dismiss it as an aberration that just blew up in Boston. There has been simmering hostility in the US against immigrants for many years now. It is the "They take our jobs" mentality that is really rising to the surface and guys like Trump are tapping into. And if racism does exist in mass in greater quantity than elsewhere I'd still be cautious about pinning it on our public manners. The more likely cause is ignorance and people feeling a need to blame someone else for their own problems.




Yup, it's just stereotypes and speculation.

On other points, I've always been puzzled to the fear of "they're taking our jobs".  It seems like the "outsider" race has always gotten the crappy jobs that nobody else wanted for crappy pay.  It just doesn't seem like a huge actual problem.  Sure, I imagine at some point, the first black guy to cross the threshold to an upper job technically took a position that a white guy would have gotten.  But the usual cries about "losing jobs" is almost always about a bottom rung group/race that the majority of its constituency hasn't made it that far.  Mexican migrant fruit pickers are not "taking our jobs"


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Can we agree that all serial killers are dicks?  No reservations?
> 
> Yet- like racists- they're not acting like dicks 24/7.  Serial killers do not kill people all day long.  Most have day jobs.  Most interact with other people in a chummy way most of the day without...well...turning them into chum.
> 
> ...




I think we may be operating with slightly definitions of the word Dick. You seem to be using it as a term of moral judgement on a person's overall character (i.e. that person is a dick because he's a bad person). When I encounter it, it usually refers to someone who is being overtly rude and obnoxious. In goodfellas, Joe Pesci was a Dick, but Ray Liotta was not a Dick (even though both are bad people, both were potentially violent sociopaths). We would use the word A hole for someone who is a racist or a serial killer. It is slang though so I am sure there is a lot of variety in usage.


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## Janx (Sep 9, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Can we agree that all serial killers are dicks?  No reservations?
> 
> Yet- like racists- they're not acting like dicks 24/7.  Serial killers do not kill people all day long.  Most have day jobs.  Most interact with other people in a chummy way most of the day without...well...turning them into chum.
> 
> ...




I like the egyptian motiff.. 

I might not agree that serial killers are dicks.  They are Monsters, criminals.

Pedos are creeps, criminals, monsters.

Dickish behavior is neither creepy, criminal or monsterous.  It falls much shorter than that and is different (to me).

Racists (generally) are s.  Which includes being a dick, most of the time, but goes a level above that.

Maybe I have too many scales to weigh the matter on.


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

Janx said:


> I like the egyptian motiff..
> 
> I might not agree that serial killers are dicks.  They are Monsters, criminals.
> 
> ...




Yeah, I may even want to peddle back on the  part. I think once your talking about stuff like killing people, that is well beyond the word Dick, it just isn't a strong enough term for it. And again to me it really is more about how you interact with people when your out in public or sitting down for a chat. We don't characterize a person's entire demeanor based on their worst act, as terrible as those acts may be.


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## Bedrockgames (Sep 9, 2015)

Janx said:


> On other points, I've always been puzzled to the fear of "they're taking our jobs".  It seems like the "outsider" race has always gotten the crappy jobs that nobody else wanted for crappy pay.  It just doesn't seem like a huge actual problem.  Sure, I imagine at some point, the first black guy to cross the threshold to an upper job technically took a position that a white guy would have gotten.  But the usual cries about "losing jobs" is almost always about a bottom rung group/race that the majority of its constituency hasn't made it that far.  Mexican migrant fruit pickers are not "taking our jobs"




I don't know where it comes from. I worked in restaurants and most of the immigrants I met there were cooks or dish washers. At a Thai restaurant for example, the waitstaff and cooks will usually be Thai, and the dishwashers and prep cooks will often be from south and central america (this all varies of course). I don't think there are too many Americans beating down the door to work at Thai or Chinese restaurants (and the irony is they are often more than happy to hire Americans because it really helps if they have someone who is connected locally or just knows the culture).


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## Umbran (Sep 9, 2015)

Janx said:


> So a person who is genuinely nice to people of their own kind isn't a dick all the time.




"Well, I don't know if I believe anyone is 100% a dick..."
-John C. Reilly/Rhomann Dey, Guardians of the Galaxy


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

Monsters & criminals are in tiny Venn circles within the Dick Venn circle.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 9, 2015)

...kept from the rest of the circle by a Dick Venn dyke.


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## tuxgeo (Sep 12, 2015)

Rick Perry has dropped out of the Presidential race. 

This must mean he won't be pushing for any fences as a candidate, right?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 12, 2015)

tuxgeo said:


> Rick Perry has dropped out of the Presidential race.



NOoooooooooooooooooooo! Why? This terribly tragic news. He has such potential for great Lulz. He will be missed.



> This must mean he won't be pushing for any fences as a candidate, right?



Pffft... since when has a republican needed to be running for President to harp on about building fences?


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## Kramodlog (Sep 21, 2015)

Scott Walker latest candidate to suspend campain. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ker-suspends-presidential-campaign/?tid=sm_fb


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 21, 2015)

So much for the Great White Wall...


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 21, 2015)

There are still 457 other republican candidates. Only about 3 are not white men. The Great White Wall is still there.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 22, 2015)

I meant the one Scottie proposed to protect us from sneaky illegally immigrating Canadianianians.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 22, 2015)

I'm pretty sure it is to stop USian refugees to come to Québec and Canada.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 22, 2015)

You know, I could probably make a killing if I moved to Canada. It seems those with my training are a commodity in Canada.


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## Ryujin (Sep 22, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You know, I could probably make a killing if I moved to Canada. It seems those with my training are a commodity in Canada.




As those working in our oil industry and our current Prime Minister have found, the word "commodity" doesn't imply high value


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 22, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> As those working in our oil industry and our current Prime Minister have found, the word "commodity" doesn't imply high value



True, but it's not the amount that I can charge for what I do. It's in the need for it. There are about 747 in the entirety of Canada that do what I do, and it's a field that is most likely in need in Canada. So it isn't that I would get paid more per job than I would here in the US. It's that I'd have a lot more work. Also, you guys have a much better health care system than the U.S., which is extremely beneficial to someone in my field. But who knows, may be it isn't as good as it appears. I mean, I'd probably have to deal with Quebecois. That's pretty bad.


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## Ryujin (Sep 22, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> True, but it's not the amount that I can charge for what I do. It's in the need for it. There are about 747 in the entirety of Canada that do what I do, and it's a field that is most likely in need in Canada. So it isn't that I would get paid more per job than I would here in the US. It's that I'd have a lot more work. Also, you guys have a much better health care system than the U.S., which is extremely beneficial to someone in my field. But who knows, may be it isn't as good as it appears. I mean, I'd probably have to deal with Quebecois. That's pretty bad.




Well if posts here are anything to go by, Quebec shouldn't be a problem. It seems that they've already separated


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 22, 2015)

Awesome! I'll be rich... in Canadian money, which isn't saying much but still.


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## Janx (Sep 22, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> True, but it's not the amount that I can charge for what I do. It's in the need for it. There are about 747 in the entirety of Canada that do what I do, and it's a field that is most likely in need in Canada. So it isn't that I would get paid more per job than I would here in the US. It's that I'd have a lot more work. Also, you guys have a much better health care system than the U.S., which is extremely beneficial to someone in my field. But who knows, may be it isn't as good as it appears. I mean, I'd probably have to deal with Quebecois. That's pretty bad.




you might also have to speak french to work there.


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## tuxgeo (Sep 22, 2015)

Now that Walker has suspended his campaign, how is he spinning it? 

Not enough support? Nobody cared about the issues he was trying to champion? Wisconsin still needs him more than the whole country does? Or is he even spinning his withdrawal at all?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 22, 2015)

Haven't seen any spin, really.  Not enough money, not enough votes.

One of his aides came out blasting, though.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/21/politics/scott-walker-liz-mair-campaign-2016/

http://theweek.com/speedreads/578569/former-aide-scott-walker-just-went-epic-twitter-rant-about


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## Umbran (Sep 22, 2015)

To quote Mr. Breathed:


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 22, 2015)

Janx said:


> you might also have to speak french to work there.




The horror.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 22, 2015)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> http://theweek.com/speedreads/578569/former-aide-scott-walker-just-went-epic-twitter-rant-about



His favorite summer beer is a summer shandy? What the hell is wrong with that guy?


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## billd91 (Sep 22, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> His favorite summer beer is a summer shandy? What the hell is wrong with that guy?




A good summer shandy is refreshing as hell. Don't be knocking it.


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## Ryujin (Sep 22, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Awesome! I'll be rich... in Canadian money, which isn't saying much but still.




As a ex-pat friend of mine who moved to North Carolina used to say, "A dollar is a dollar, on both sides of the border."


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## Kramodlog (Sep 22, 2015)

But is 1 equal to 0.99999999? That is the real question.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 23, 2015)

billd91 said:


> A good summer shandy is refreshing as hell. Don't be knocking it.



[sblock=  ][/sblock]


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 23, 2015)

goldomark said:


> But is 1 equal to 0.99999999 1.33? That is the real question.



Fixed that for you.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 23, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Fixed that for you.




So it begins, the numbers that turn good nerds cruel.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 23, 2015)

goldomark said:


> So it begins, the numbers that turn good nerds cruel.




Suffer...


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## Kramodlog (Sep 23, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Suffer...




It is my blight as a minority.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 23, 2015)

goldomark said:


> It is my blight as a minority.



Good. Suffer some more.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 23, 2015)

Ow.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Fixed that for you.




No, as in you just look at what a dollar can buy and see if it's worth it for you. A dollar doesn't buy the same thing in San Francisco, CA as it does in Casper, WY so why sweat the details over Canada vs. US unless you're doing exchange?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> No, as in you just look at what a dollar can buy and see if it's worth it for you. A dollar doesn't buy the same thing in San Francisco, CA as it does in Casper, WY so why sweat the details over Canada vs. US unless you're doing exchange?



Why wouldn't you exchange? Does Canada take U.S.ian dollars?


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Why wouldn't you exchange? Does Canada take U.S.ian dollars?




Why would you exchange when you're spending money on a daily basis to live? You only exchange when buying from elsewhere, coming from there, or going to there.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Why would you exchange when you're spending money on a daily basis to live? You only exchange when buying from elsewhere, coming from there, or going to there.



What if i don't want to live there, just have a business there?


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> What if i don't want to live there, just have a business there?




Well then from my point of view that's just too bad, because I'd rather see more Canadian-owned businesses up here 

... though American businesses don't seem to have a whole lot of trouble, up here, because we're grossly over-charged on many things (notably things like electronics and camera gear).


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Well then from my point of view that's just too bad, because I'd rather see more Canadian-owned businesses up here



Well, even if I did live there, would it really be a "Canadian" owned business?



> ... though American businesses don't seem to have a whole lot of trouble, up here, because we're grossly over-charged on many things (notably things like electronics and camera gear).



My interest lies more in what companies that provide healthcare services get paid.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Well, even if I did live there, would it really be a "Canadian" owned business?
> 
> My interest lies more in what companies that provide healthcare services get paid.




Well I would accept "owned by a resident alien" or "Canadian to be."


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Well I would accept "owned by a resident alien" or "Canadian to be."



Canadian to be? Dude, those are fighting words!


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Canadian to be? Dude, those are fighting words!View attachment 70629




Now you see the drift between vernacular, in countries that nominally speak the same language. You see, up here that's what we refer to as a "compliment"


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Now you see the drift between vernacular, in countries that nominally speak the same language. You see, up here that's what we refer to as a "compliment"



How can that be a compliment? Canada is Murika's hat.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> How can that be a compliment? Canada is Murika's hat.




I always though of America as Canada shorts, so it's a step up.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> I always though of America as Canada shorts, so it's a step up.



That's an interesting take, but it's incorrect. Canada is America's hat, and Mexico is America's beard.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> That's an interesting take, but it's incorrect. Canada is America's hat, and Mexico is America's beard.View attachment 70634




There's a certain anatomical oddity that puts the lie to your statement.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

You're America's hat, and that's it. You're wrong. Admit it, or we'll send Floridians to Canada. In case you don't realize how terrifying that threat is, Trump has a house in Florida, and I'm sure he is loaded with bath salts.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You're America's hat, and that's it. You're wrong. Admit it, or we'll send Floridians to Canada. In case you don't realize how terrifying that threat is, Trump has a house in Florida, and I'm sure he is loaded with bath salts.




Oh, we realize how destructive a mass movement of whackadoodle Floridians to Canada would be. That's why we created our First Strike Initiative; thousands of Quebecois sleeper agents in Florida.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Oh, we realize how destructive a mass movement of whackadoodle Floridians to Canada would be. That's why we created our First Strike Initiative; thousands of Quebecois sleeper agents in Florida.



Quebecois aren't Canadians.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Quebecois aren't Canadians.




That's what they think, which is what makes them such good  (and expendable) shock troops.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

You can't even communicate with them.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You can't even communicate with them.




Non? Pourquoi pensez-vous que?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Non? Pourquoi pensez-vous que?



Is only 3:55 pm and you're already drunk. You're a terrible person.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Non? Pourquoi pensez-vous que?




_Voilà un affront à ma culture et un bel example de l'oppression quotidienne que mon peuple doit endurer de la part de ton peuple! Diantre! Comment est-ce que les Canadiens peuvent être aussi cruel envers les Québécois?_*


*Your attempt at French is a failure.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

goldomark said:


> _Voilà un affront à ma culture et un bel example de l'oppression quotidienne que mon peuple doit endurer de la part de ton peuple! Diantre! Comment est-ce que les Canadiens peuvent être aussi cruel envers les Québécois?_*
> 
> 
> *Your attempt at French is a failure.




Hey, buddy. We gave you Florida in the new regime, guy. Where's the complaint, fella?

My French, which I haven't used in 20 years, was taught to me in an Ontario classroom, 36 years ago, with a Castilian lisp, by a woman from Madrid. By that reckoning I'd say I did pretty good


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Is only 3:55 pm and you're already drunk. You're a terrible person.




I most certainly am not drunk. Court order. The rest I'll freely admit to.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Hey, buddy. We gave you Florida in the new regime, guy. Where's the complaint, fella?



Obviously, you're not familiar with Floriduh.



> My French, which I haven't used in 20 years, was taught to me in an Ontario classroom, 36 years ago, with a Castilian lisp, by a woman from Madrid.



I see. You won't give Franco-Ontarians good jobs. Can't let dirty Francophones get that hard earned money by Anglophones. Tsk tsk. 



> By that reckoning I'd say I did pretty good



No, no it isn't.


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## Ryujin (Sep 25, 2015)

goldomark said:


> Obviously, you're not familiar with Floriduh.
> 
> I see. You won't give Franco-Ontarians good jobs. Can't let dirty Francophones get that hard earned money by Anglophones. Tsk tsk.
> 
> No, no it isn't.




Familiar enough that I tend to stop once I'm inside Alabama.

It's the school board that did the hiring, not me.

How's your Spanish?


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## Kramodlog (Sep 25, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Familiar enough that I tend to stop once I'm inside Alabama.



It is only better if you want to marry your sister. 



> It's the school board that did the hiring, not me.



Proof of systemic racism and your indifference!



> How's your Spanish?



I didn't know Spaniards were one of Canada's official founding nation.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 26, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> I most certainly am not drunk. Court order. The rest I'll freely admit to.



Court order? From Where? Canada? That's just meaningless. Only courts that matter are Murikan courts, ya drunk.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 26, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Familiar enough that I tend to stop once I'm inside Alabama.
> 
> It's the school board that did the hiring, not me.
> 
> How's your Spanish?



You stop in Alabama? That's even worse.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 26, 2015)

goldomark said:


> I didn't know Spaniards were one of Canada's official founding nation.



They will be once they re-write your silly history books. Murika!


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## Ryujin (Sep 26, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Court order? From Where? Canada? That's just meaningless. Only courts that matter are Murikan courts, ya drunk.




World Court. Don't ask.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You stop in Alabama? That's even worse.




Find me another place outside Florida that has as good a collection of spacecraft and motorcycles, all within and area saturated with some of the best slow cooked ribs on the planet, and I'll go there instead.


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## Ryujin (Sep 26, 2015)

goldomark said:


> It is only better if you want to marry your sister.




You haven't been to 'Bama, have you? You're thinking of Arkansas. 'Bama has some beautiful, unrelated women. Too bad they have to turn 30.



> Proof of systemic racism and your indifference!




Systemic "racism"? Enh. I can take it or leave it.



> I didn't know Spaniards were one of Canada's official founding nation.




They aren't, but I've gotten about as much use out of Spanish in the last three decades as I have French.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 26, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> World Court. Don't ask.



I don't have to ask. They aren't Murikan, so they don't count.



> Find me another place outside Florida that has as good a collection of spacecraft and motorcycles, all within and area saturated with some of the best slow cooked ribs on the planet, and I'll go there instead.



Just because some guy named Billy Bob told you he was abducted and probed, and shows you some stuff he wrapped in foil, doesn't mean that's actual spacecraft stuff. You can find motorcycle collections anywhere in the U.S. Hell, I bet you can find some nice ones in California.


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## Ryujin (Sep 26, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I don't have to ask. They aren't Murikan, so they don't count.
> 
> Just because some guy named Billy Bob told you he was abducted and probed, and shows you some stuff he wrapped in foil, doesn't mean that's actual spacecraft stuff. You can find motorcycle collections anywhere in the U.S. Hell, I bet you can find some nice ones in California.




Last time I was down there I visited the first place twice and the second place 4 times, in one week. 'Merikun spacecraft only, 'lessen they had the alien stuff in the shed out back. Billy-Bob not included.

http://rocketcenter.com/

http://www.barbermuseum.org/


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Sep 26, 2015)

They're in Alabama. There's no way it can ever be a positive thing.


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## Umbran (Sep 27, 2015)

It looked like pretty standard textbook French, to me.

Be that as it may, the thread's clearly gone off the rails.  Time to close it.


----------

