# The stupidest movie ever!



## Mystery Man (Jan 24, 2005)

For years a movie called Hog Wild was on my list of the stupidest movie I've ever seen. I remember at the age of nine walking out on this movie with my best friend and demanding our money back. The theatre manager must have known out pain and gave us a refund. This movie has been on my list for 25 years. It has just been replaced by The Day After Tomorrow. I haven't had my intelligence insulted this bad for a long, long time. What a turd!

Just had to vent.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jan 24, 2005)

I thought that Day After Tommorrow wasn't all that bad. Its definitely a "Turn Brain Off" movie, but there's tons of those already so I've got lots of practice.


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## WayneLigon (Jan 24, 2005)

So, describe? The producer said that, of course, normally such things would take hundreds of years to happen and that to make a watchable movie the time scale had to be dramatically shortened. Other than that, what?

I think about the only thing I didn't like about it was the CGI wolves. No reason for CGI (and badly done CGI at that) that I know of (I speculated once that the reason might have been that wolves are an endangered species and thus some rule might have prevented them from doing such a thing - I have no idea otherwise, since I think that the CGI wolves must have been much much more expensive).


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## Laurel (Jan 24, 2005)

Though low down on the list of movies in my life, and not in my mind worth the 8+ dollars to see it in the theater (which unfortunately I did when it came out).  But I don't know that I would push it down to worst movie ever.  There are lots of movies worse off then this one.  Mostly those that you try to foget as soon as it ended.  Those where it was better to have a black hole of memory instead of the memories of the movie 

I have to say the big scene that was a disapointment to me was when he's on the phone with his dad and the water level rises.  With all the blood, I figured a shark would try to attack them....guess I was trying to make it worse then it was 

--Put that in black just in case it counts, and I'd rather not get yelled at for somthing that small--


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## Crothian (Jan 24, 2005)

I liked the movie.  Was it realistic?  No, but then no movies really are and I wasn't expecting it to be.  Ya, the wolves were dumb, but it was such a small part of the movie that it didn't really ruin it for me.  

On the topic of stupidest movie I go with Cemetary Man.


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## JimAde (Jan 24, 2005)

I managed to avoid Day After Tomorrow.  If we're starting a poll, I'd vote for Reign of Fire.

I actually fell asleep during it.


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## Chun-tzu (Jan 24, 2005)

I haven't seen it. But of the worst movies of them all, IMDB viewers have voted for the following:  http://www.imdb.com/chart/bottom

There are a lot of movies from the 60's that I've never seen on the list.  More recent stinkers include:
Future War (1997)
From Justin to Kelly (2003)
Troll 2 (1990)
You Got Served (2004)
Backyard Dogs (2000)
Santa with Muscles (1996)
SuperBabies: Baby Geniuses 2 (2004)
Glitter (2001)
Werewolf (1996)
Turbo: A Power Rangers Movie (1997)
Gigli (2003)
Police Academy: Mission to Moscow (1994)
Kazaam (1996)

Damn, I haven't seen any of these movies either!


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## Mallus (Jan 24, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> On the topic of stupidest movie I go with Cemetary Man.



Stupid? Its just not fair to call a film that's so disinterested in logic stupid. We should reserve the term 'stupid' for films that purport to make sense and don't.

Oh, and I rather liked 'Attack of the Really Bad Weather'... err, 'The Day After Tomorrow'. For a dumb, cliche-ridden CGI calamity-fest it suprised me by letting the bad weather win...


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## Brown Jenkin (Jan 24, 2005)

I think I read somewhere that they tried using real wolves, but couldn?t get them to act vicious enough. They had to CGI them in as a result.

As for worst movie ever has to be The Scarlet Letter with Demi Moore. I rented it once with my girlfriend expecting it to be awful, but we were hoping for some fun making fun of it. Even with the lowest expectations I have ever had for a movie it was by far 10 times worse than I could have possibly imagined. There have maybe been a handful of movies I wished I could get my life back after (not just my money) and this is the only one I want to stick a hot poker into my brain to burn out all traces of. Do not take this a challenge to watch this, or you to will want to burn that section of your brains out too. There is absolutely nothing redeeming in any way about this movie, period.


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## JimAde (Jan 24, 2005)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> I haven't seen it. But of the worst movies of them all, IMDB viewers have voted for the following:  http://www.imdb.com/chart/bottom
> 
> There are a lot of movies from the 60's that I've never seen on the list.  More recent stinkers include:
> Future War (1997)
> ...



 I'm really surprised not to see Plan 9 From Outer Space on that list.  It's regarded by many as the worst film ever made.

I own it on DVD (it's in the "so bad you have to see it" category) and I have to agree.  WOW it's bad.  My favorite bit is the cops who gesture constantly with their loaded guns, including scratching their heads with the barrels...


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## Rackhir (Jan 24, 2005)

"TDAT" might have been a stupic movie, it IS from the Guys who are supposed to have made some horrible american adaptation of Godzilla. Though I do not believe any such tales, of such a film being made. It could not possibly be worse than the blasphemous rumors about the existance of a sequel to Highlander tell us it was. 

However, I myself have seen a movie of such awe inspiring awfulness as to number among such mostrously bad movies of legend. It is called "Gangland" and it takes place after a nuclear war, that doesn't seem to have actually destroyed anything and during a plague that will wipe out humanity, though nobody actually seems to be sick with it. It reveals mysteries such as, LA Gang leaders have sufficient technical knowledge and skill to be able to engineer a supersoldier that pops full grown out of a tank, WITH all it's skills! Though it doesn't really seem to be very smart. Pistols are more accurate over several hundred feet than rifles and that people who have them forget about it until it is convenient for a fight scene. Tremble should you even contemplate seeing such an abomination.

I can understand not liking "Cemetery Man", but it isn't a stupid film. It's just very, very strange and is not in any sense supposed to be realistic or even make much sense.


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## Desdichado (Jan 24, 2005)

If _The Day After Tomorrow_ is the worst movie you've ever seen, you really need to get out more.

To me, worst is also a factor of how much I was hoping the movie _wouldn't_ suck, and it totally failed to deliver.  A movie I really expect to blow chunks, which does indeed blow chunks, doesn't really make my radar.  Typically I don't even remember such duds unless someone brings them up.

That said, I think my two most hated movies -- and it's hard to pick between them here -- have got to be _Dungeons & Dragons_ and _Street Fighter_.  I _really_ wanted to like those two, and, God help me, I just couldn't.


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## Mystery Man (Jan 24, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> If _The Day After Tomorrow_ is the worst movie you've ever seen, you really need to get out more.




No, I'm just usually pretty tolerant until it's so bad that I stop the movie in the middle. Wing Commaner comes in a close second to tDAT. 



			
				Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> That said, I think my two most hated movies -- and it's hard to pick between them here -- have got to be _Dungeons & Dragons_ and _Street Fighter_.  I _really_ wanted to like those two, and, God help me, I just couldn't.




Dungeons and Dragons was better than tDAT.


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## Mallus (Jan 24, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> "I can understand not liking "Cemetery Man"...



What's not to like about a Sam Raimi by way of Peter Jackson by way of Federico Fellini by way of Dario Argento existential zombie art/splattered house flick??

On second thought, nevermind. But I thought it was great.


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## Wolf72 (Jan 24, 2005)

bah! your problem is that your expectations are to high! ...

_The Day After Tomorrow_ was alright ... mother nature wins! woot! kinda reminded me of the asteroid movie with Morgan Freeman as president.

wolves: heck, I would've taken em out! ... meat!

now going to the drive in to see Harry Potter, but having to see  _White Girls_ first was horrible ... painful, I might blurted out a laugh a few times, but I almost just decided to leave and catch HP another time.


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## KnowTheToe (Jan 24, 2005)

Go see Dark City.  You will have to scratch out TDAT.


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## Captain Tagon (Jan 24, 2005)

I saw the thread title and thought someone had discovered Battlefield Earth or the Village for the first time.


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## Crothian (Jan 24, 2005)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> Go see Dark City.  You will have to scratch out TDAT.




I really enjoyed Dark City it was nice and different


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## VirgilCaine (Jan 24, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> So, describe? The producer said that, of course, normally such things would take hundreds of years to happen and that to make a watchable movie the time scale had to be dramatically shortened. Other than that, what?
> 
> I think about the only thing I didn't like about it was the CGI wolves. No reason for CGI (and badly done CGI at that) that I know of (I speculated once that the reason might have been that wolves are an endangered species and thus some rule might have prevented them from doing such a thing - I have no idea otherwise, since I think that the CGI wolves must have been much much more expensive).




Dogs, not wolves would have been more logical...and besides, there must be some dogs that would have looked just like wolves to the layperson.

But then, I hated it also. 

For the person who said "kill the wolves"--this is NEW YORK CITY, HOME OF IDIOTS!

It's not so much entire movies that are bad, but mistakes...like in Assault on Precinct 13, somehow the gang members manage to acquire pretty cutting-edge suppressed machine guns....and 60 year old handguns(Mausers). Along with suppressed run of the mill revolvers...


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## Crothian (Jan 25, 2005)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> Dogs, not wolves would have been more logical...




Earlier in the movie is showed a zoo like place with the wolves and then showed it empty to indicate the wolves escaped.  So, they tried to make it seem logical.


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## VirgilCaine (Jan 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Earlier in the movie is showed a zoo like place with the wolves and then showed it empty to indicate the wolves escaped.  So, they tried to make it seem logical.




There have to be MANY more dogs than wolves in NYC...likely not logical is what I should have said.


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## Turanil (Jan 25, 2005)

_The Day After Tomorrow_ is the stupidest movie you ever saw? You should be glad, because fate spared you a French film I did see almost 20 years ago. It was called _Une Chambre En Ville_, which can roughly translate as "A Room In The City" (meaning a room for rent in an appartment in the city). *It is almost impossible for you to fathom how much odious, crap, atrocity this movie was.* Just thinking about it 20 years later, I am still angry. _The Day After Tomorrow_ is a really wonderful film in comparison, trust me (Well, I don't need to have seen it to say that   ).

So basically, it was when I was a student in Paris. When my father would come to visit me, we went see a movie, sometimes choosing a film just because it was there, not knowing what it was. So fate was evil that day, and we chose the most wrong film ever made. Basically, despite I forgot the boring story, I remember perfectly well what made this film special. Actors were singing their uninteresting and totally mundane texts, instead of saying them. This film was NOT a musical comedy, no! It was something like: the protagonist goes to the kitchen and open the fridge, and instead of saying "Well, I am hungry, lets see if there is some chicken left to eat", he instead sings it (without music to accompany in the background). As such, you get a stupid, incredibly aggravating stuff like "Lalalala... Well, lalala, I am hungry hihihi, lets see if, lalala, there is some chicken left to eat, hihihi..." This during all the film, whatever mundane or ininteresting the characters would do or say. Believe me, this was intolerable.

I wanted, I really wanted to leave the movie, but my father pretended that since he had paid he would want to see the film entirely. I didn't want to leave him there for some forgotten reason. And so I had to see the whole thing, and wished to kill the imbecile who had created this crap.


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## Turanil (Jan 25, 2005)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> I think I read somewhere that they tried using real wolves, but couldn?t get them to act vicious enough. They had to CGI them in as a result.
> 
> As for worst movie ever has to be The Scarlet Letter with Demi Moore. I rented it once with my girlfriend expecting it to be awful, but we were hoping for some fun making fun of it. Even with the lowest expectations I have ever had for a movie it was by far 10 times worse than I could have possibly imagined. There have maybe been a handful of movies I wished I could get my life back after (not just my money) and this is the only one I want to stick a hot poker into my brain to burn out all traces of. Do not take this a challenge to watch this, or you to will want to burn that section of your brains out too. There is absolutely nothing redeeming in any way about this movie, period.



LOL!!  


By the way, among the bottom 100 rated by the Internet community, is this incredibly atrocious crap: *Surf Ninja*. Fortunately I didn't see the film. However, many years ago I did work for an advertising agency which did movie adverts. So I had to work on this Surf Ninja crap and see all the photos, and read the story.    What a crap! I could not believe it.


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## Viking Bastard (Jan 25, 2005)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> Go see Dark City.  You will have to scratch out TDAT.



Whoah. Really? I think you're the first geek I've known to not adore that movie.

It's among my favourite cinema trips since, well, ever.

EDIT: No, wait, second geek.


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## Turanil (Jan 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I really enjoyed Dark City it was nice and different



Me too. I have the DVD and saw it a dozen times... almost in a row!


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## Turanil (Jan 25, 2005)

I remember once a friend suggesting going to see that crap: *Scream*. I was suspicious of the thing, but my friend pretended having read somewhere that this film was really funny, innovative, a parody, etc. So we went, five of us, to see it. 20 minutes later after the film had begun I was angry beyond hell, almost ready to kill someone myself, so much this film was intolerable. I left the place; but one of my friend said: "Hey! Don't leave, it's barely begun, maybe it will become better!"; I answered that I already knew it was a total crap. Next day they all admitted that the film was indeed entire crap all way long...


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## Crothian (Jan 25, 2005)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> There have to be MANY more dogs than wolves in NYC...likely not logical is what I should have said.




right, but they weren't shown within the movie.  They presented the wolves and gave us wolves.  Like in most movies one has to take what they present.


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## Crothian (Jan 25, 2005)

Turanil said:
			
		

> I remember once a friend suggesting going to see that crap: *Scream*. I was suspicious of the thing, but my friend pretended having read somewhere that this film was really funny, innovative, a parody, etc. So we went, five of us, to see it. 20 minutes later after the film had begun I was angry beyond hell, almost ready to kill someone myself, so much this film was intolerable. I left the place; but one of my friend said: "Hey! Don't leave, it's barely begun, maybe it will become better!"; I answered that I already knew it was a total crap. Next day they all admitted that the film was indeed entire crap all way long...





huh, Scream was funny, it was a parody of sorts, but not a scrict parodyt like say Airplane.  It was a horror movie that admited there were cliches and made fun of them withing a horror movie.  I liked it and enjoyed the second one as well.


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## David Howery (Jan 25, 2005)

tDAT wasn't great but wasn't THAT bad... the special effects were cool, and a nice ecological message to boot.  Now, if you want the worst movie of all time, my vote goes to "A Night at the Roxbury".   Just craptactularly awful...


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## Turanil (Jan 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> huh, Scream was funny, I liked it and enjoyed the second one as well.



Sounds to me like something to say in the confession thread...


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## Psionicist (Jan 25, 2005)

Sometimes when you eat way too much you feel slightly sick. There's only one movie that has made me feel exactly like this. The movie? Subterano, the worst piece of junk I've ever seen. Even Street Fighter is good by comparision.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0255623/


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## VirgilCaine (Jan 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> right, but they weren't shown within the movie.  They presented the wolves and gave us wolves.  Like in most movies one has to take what they present.




Not without complaining I don't have to accept the stupid crap moviemakers give people!



> tDAT wasn't great but wasn't THAT bad... the special effects were cool, and a nice ecological message to boot.




Which was what exactly? I never really heard anything specific.


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## PaulKemp (Jan 25, 2005)

Turanil said:
			
		

> Me too. I have the DVD and saw it a dozen times... almost in a row!




Agreed.  Dark City was an excellent movie.  Mr. Book, indeed!


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## Acid_crash (Jan 25, 2005)

My vote for stupidest movie I personally have ever seen is Mad Max followed by Radioactive Dreams followed by Repossessed.  The first because I saw the movie, thought the acting was horrible beyond all capacity to my intelligence, and didn't know the name of the movie and thought it was the dumbest thing I ever saw, then saw the title and still think that.  The second because, well, I never did understand it at all.  The third, well, the worst of all leslie nelson's movies.

The Day After Tomorrow - it's message was loud and clear, stated perfectly by the last line in the movie, "Have you ever seen the earth (sky) so clear?"  So this movie stated that unless we humans are to survive in the future we should do what we can to take care of the planet before monther nature takes care of us and cleans us from her system.  

I liked Dark City, that movie was cool, one of the unexpected surprises of the last few years from hollywood.  I also like Scream, in the audience I was in most of us were laughing during the last few minutes with Matt Lillard and friend stabbing each other.  What's not to like about the Village?  Your talking about a group of people willing to sacrifice everything for a way of life for their children to experience a good life, willing to do what it takes to make sure their way of life is preserved.


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## David Howery (Jan 25, 2005)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> Which was what exactly? I never really heard anything specific.



you weren't paying attention then... there were several comments in there about global warming caused by too much burning of fossil fuels, which is what led to the whole disaster in the first place, too much CO2 in the air, etc. etc....


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## FCWesel (Jan 25, 2005)

As several other have said...if TDAT is the "stupidest movie you ever saw" then you are a LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY, little man.

Check out "Lost Highway" if you want real stupidity.

BTW, on a quirk I typed in "stupidest movie" in at the search on IMDB and got the following two "popular" results...

Spice World (1997)
 aka "Spice: The Movie" - UK (working title)
Resident Evil (2002)
 aka "Resident Evil the Movie" - USA (working title)


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## Desdichado (Jan 25, 2005)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> Which was what exactly? I never really heard anything specific.



Did you actually watch the movie, then?


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## TheAuldGrump (Jan 25, 2005)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> For the person who said "kill the wolves"--this is NEW YORK CITY, HOME OF IDIOTS!




For several years New York state held the record in the country for people being killed by polar bears... think about it.

And if you thing that TDAT is bad, watch _The Core_, or _Wing Commander_, or _Lost in Space_... (I went to see LiS with a friend, or rather my friend came to watch me watch it... he smiled at the point where my brain melted and ran out my ears.)

The Auld Grump


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jan 25, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> And if you thing that TDAT is bad, watch _The Core_, or _Wing Commander_, or _Lost in Space_...




I've got to add Battlefield Earth to that list.


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## Particle_Man (Jan 25, 2005)

I haven't seen the worst there is, but dumb ones I have seen...

Hell Comes to Frogtown (I left half-way through)
Spawn (I will always regret that my friend had me see that one for full price)
The Transporter (It was produced by Luc Besson, whom I admired.  I kept hoping it would get better...then I just hoped that it would not get worse...god I should have left that one half-way through but I was hypnotized, like a rat by an evil, ugly, dumb snake).

Glad I haven't seen Battlefield Earth, though.    Or those rumored sequels to Highlander, that are in that Quantum state of "exist/don't exist"...


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## Crothian (Jan 25, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> And if you thing that TDAT is bad, watch _The Core_




the Core wasn't that bad, it was nice mindless fun.


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## Turanil (Jan 25, 2005)

Psionicist said:
			
		

> Sometimes when you eat way too much you feel slightly sick. There's only one movie that has made me feel exactly like this. The movie? Subterano, the worst piece of junk I've ever seen. Even Street Fighter is good by comparision.
> 
> http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0255623/



I agree that it looks terrible...   




			
				Acid_crash said:
			
		

> The third, well, the worst of all leslie nelson's movies.



 Let me say that Leslie Nelson did also play in "Surf Ninja". Now I am wondering if this guy did ever play in a tolerable film...   


In any case, I still say "Une Chambre En Ville" was the worst movie ever produced. I have seen stupid films since then, but nothing that angered me as this terrible crap did.


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## Pinotage (Jan 25, 2005)

I have to agree with Mystery Man. Day after Tomorrow was bad. Appalling even. It's the only movie in a long time that I desperately wanted to walk out of, but stuck it out in the hope I wouldn't be disappointed. Unfortunately, I was. Maybe not the stupidest movie ever, but definitely the worst movie last year, if not for the last few years. Stuck in a library burning books when there are scores of wooden bookshelves!

Perhaps it's a case of expecting something good but being disappointed by the result. Alexander was very similar - had a lot of expectation, but it was a really bad movie as well. Apparantly Alexander got 6 nominations for the Razzies, with Catwoman getting 7.

Pinotage


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## Tonguez (Jan 25, 2005)

Acid_crash said:
			
		

> My vote for stupidest movie I personally have ever seen is Mad Max .




You don't like Mad Max? wow what a weirdo!

my personal vote for worst movie is *Zardoz* starring Sean Connery- I've seen it twice and the second time was even more confused than the first


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## Hand of Evil (Jan 25, 2005)

It is good to see people have taking the advice of others and have kept away from Highlander 2, because no other movie has ever come close to it as stupid, painful, and just plane awful!  It will burn your eyes from your head, it make Battlefield Earth look like an Ocar winner, Gilgi a People Choice winner, and Pay Check a Golden Glode winner!   



The Core was a good movie.
Dark City was a very good movie.


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## Tanager (Jan 25, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Highlander 2




Yup thats right up there at the top for me, along with the 1999 Sci-Fi version of Beowulf starring the very same Chris Lambert.


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## Thanee (Jan 25, 2005)

With some of those bad movies out there you know what you are asking for... but the one with the highest drop from expectation to actual result must be Matrix 2 & 3, especially 3. That one's far worse than Highlander 2, and that's a really, really bad movie!

Matrix 3 is my vote for the worst movie of all time!

I don't think, while I have not seen it, that TDAT can even touch that scale. 

I s'pose Catwoman and Electra are good to go into that direction, too.

Bye
Thanee


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## Goodsport (Jan 25, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> I'm really surprised not to see Plan 9 From Outer Space on that list.  It's regarded by many as the worst film ever made.
> 
> I own it on DVD (it's in the "so bad you have to see it" category) and I have to agree.  WOW it's bad.  My favorite bit is the cops who gesture constantly with their loaded guns, including scratching their heads with the barrels...




I remember when Tim Burton's _Ed Wood_ was released 11 years ago, there was _so_ much hype about _Plan 9 From Outer Space_ being the worst movie ever that when I finally got a round to renting _Plan 9_ and watching it, it ended up not being as bad as the hype made it out to be.

It certainly wasn't good, but it didn't give me the anxiety attack that I was led to believe it would. 


-G


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## Goodsport (Jan 25, 2005)

Strangely, when someone asks me what my one all-time favorite movie is, I can't seem to answer right away.  I have several favorites, and would have to sit down and ponder long and hard on which one would be my chosen one.

My least favorite all-time movie, on the other hand, is readily apparent: back in 1985 (oh _man_, I'm old!), my friend dragged me to see _Transylvania 6-5000_, and still I haven't forgiven him for it since!

I've seen several movies over the years that were so bad that they were (unintentionally) funny - but _Transylvania 6-5000_ achieved the rare and dubious distinction of both sucking _and_ not being funny in the process... made all the more ironic as the film was _meant_ to be a screwball-comedy.


-G


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## JimAde (Jan 25, 2005)

Turanil said:
			
		

> Let me say that Leslie Nelson did also play in "Surf Ninja". Now I am wondering if this guy did ever play in a tolerable film...




   

I've never seen either of these movies you're talking about, but Leslie Nielson RULES! 

He started out as a "handsome leading man" type but always wanted to do comedy.  He finally got to do so by making fun of his own deadpan persona:

Forbidden Planet (Not comedy, just an excellent film)
Airplane!
Police Squad! and The Naked Gun movies
Dracula: Dead and Loving it


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## Mystery Man (Jan 25, 2005)

Acid_crash said:
			
		

> The Day After Tomorrow - it's message was loud and clear, stated perfectly by the last line in the movie, "Have you ever seen the earth (sky) so clear?" So this movie stated that unless we humans are to survive in the future we should do what we can to take care of the planet before monther nature takes care of us and cleans us from her system.




Huge gaping plot hole that apparantly Hollywood thinks we're too stupid to figure out. What caused the previous iceage 10,000 years ago. Too much mastodon poop? Dumb, dumb, DUMB!


I forgot. "Dude, Where's My Car?" was one I never finished. I don't know if they found his car or not and frankly I don't give a damn.


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## Klaus (Jan 25, 2005)

Dude, Where's my car
The Intruder (icelandic movie with 3 characters, one of which doesn't speak)
The Avengers
Catwoman
Battlefield Earth
Transylvaia 6-5000 (thanks for reminding me, Goodsport... I went through so much trouble to forget it in the first place...)
Mortal Kombat 2

Street Fighter was barely entertaining, in a "let's see how the get the video game costumes/let's try and spot the combat maneuvers" kinda way)
I like some of Leslie Nielsen's movies (specially Naked Gun and Dracula), but the more recent ones (Mr. Magoo?) are pretty awful...


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## VirgilCaine (Jan 25, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> For several years New York state held the record in the country for people being killed by polar bears... think about it.
> 
> And if you thing that TDAT is bad, watch _The Core_, or _Wing Commander_, or _Lost in Space_... (I went to see LiS with a friend, or rather my friend came to watch me watch it... he smiled at the point where my brain melted and ran out my ears.)
> 
> The Auld Grump




I did watch _Wing Commander_ and _Lost in Space_, thank you. _Lost in Space_ has "Joey" from _Friends_...



> Did you actually watch the movie, then?




Yes, I did. I just don't remember them SAYING "This is being caused by fossil fuels." Just a lot of brouhaha about how the main character is being alarmist and is wrong, not "Fossil fuels don't do that!"


----------



## Dinkeldog (Jan 25, 2005)

"The Age of Innocence" is my all time worst movie.  Good freaking god, people.  Do something already!  I just wish I could get that 3 hours of my life back to spend on more useful pursuits...surfing the internet, for example.


----------



## Tetsubo (Jan 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I liked the movie.  Was it realistic?  No, but then no movies really are and I wasn't expecting it to be.  Ya, the wolves were dumb, but it was such a small part of the movie that it didn't really ruin it for me.
> 
> On the topic of stupidest movie I go with Cemetary Man.




Wow.

I loved Cemetary Man. I consider it one of the great zombie movies. 

Different strokes I guess...


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 25, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> The Intruder (icelandic movie with 3 characters, one of which doesn't speak)



You're maybe thinking http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0241956/ ? 

While I wouldn't call it that awful, it's pretty sucky. Even the director thinks so.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 25, 2005)

Possibly... The movie poster had this young girl (the one who doesn't speak), holding an adult-sized shepherd's staff, with a blue hood pulled tightly over her face. I thought "Hey, maybe it's like Dragonslayer"!

First time I ever fast-forwarded through a movie. I stopped only when there were dialogs, and after 20 minutes I was done...


----------



## Aeolius (Jan 25, 2005)

"Andy Warhol's Frankenstein" in 3D...worst...movie...ever


----------



## Warrior Poet (Jan 25, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Highlander 2




There's not enough electroshock therapy in the world to remove that movie from my brain. 

Warrior Poet


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 25, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Possibly... The movie poster had this young girl (the one who doesn't speak), holding an adult-sized shepherd's staff, with a blue hood pulled tightly over her face. I thought "Hey, maybe it's like Dragonslayer"!



No. Not the one.

Plus, I'm now doubting that it's Icelandic. Shepherd's staff? Very un-Icelandic.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 25, 2005)

Well, sort of shepherd's...

... could it have been a New Zealand movie?...


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 25, 2005)

Depends. What language was it in?


----------



## Logan (Jan 25, 2005)

If you've ever seen Out for a Kill, you'd know that is the stupidest movie ever.

Let me just say this:  Steven Seagal.   In a fake mullet.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Jan 25, 2005)

Warrior Poet said:
			
		

> Hand of Evil said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All I can say is Highlander 2 is a cinematic masterpiece compared to The Scarlet Letter.


----------



## Greylock (Jan 25, 2005)

Worst movie ever? The question takes me back to the late '70s, maybe around 1980. Believe the movie was called "The Sorceress", or maube "Sword and Sorceror". Something like that. Maybe someone here remembers it. It featured two busty blondes, playing twins seperated at birth. One was raised as an unlikely ugly duckling peasant girl, the other as the son (!!!!!) of a king or somesuch who doesn't realise "he" is a buxom woman. Met as adults in unlikely circumstances, the "young man" revealed as a leggy beauty, etc etc. Bad English accents, insanely stupid plot and all...


----------



## Presto2112 (Jan 25, 2005)

My bottom three movies of all time that I've seen:

Cabin Boy
Highlander 2
Awakenings (I am a fan of both Robin William and Robert DeNiro, but I've tried to watch this twice and fell asleep from sheer boredom both times.  To this day I still don't know how it ends.)

Top Three Bad Movies Which I Absolutely Loved

Harold & Kumar Go To White Castle
Stay Tuned
Mom & Dad Save the World

Top Three Movies Which I'm Intentionally Avoiding

Bubbleboy
Gigli
Dude, Where's My Car


----------



## Warrior Poet (Jan 25, 2005)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> All I can say is Highlander 2 is a cinematic masterpiece compared to The Scarlet Letter.




This frightens and confuses me. 



			
				Greylock said:
			
		

> Worst movie ever . . . Believe the movie was called "The Sorceress", or maube "Sword and Sorceror" . . . It featured two busty blondes, playing twins seperated at birth. One was raised as an unlikely ugly duckling peasant girl, the other as the son (!!!!!) of a king or somesuch who doesn't realise "he" is a buxom woman. Met as adults in unlikely circumstances, the "young man" revealed as a leggy beauty, etc etc. Bad English accents, insanely stupid plot and all...




OK, fair enough, that sounds really terrible.

There's money out there, folks, in the millions of [insert currency here] worth, being handed to people to make these very films.  Someone, somewhere, gave the go-ahead to projects described previously, and there are undoubtedly more on the way.   

Yikes,

Warrior Poet


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 26, 2005)

Warrior Poet said:
			
		

> There's money out there, folks, in the millions of [insert currency here] worth, being handed to people to make these very films.  Someone, somewhere, gave the go-ahead to projects described previously, and there are undoubtedly more on the way.




Text file of a sample scene I wrote (with expletives deleted, so I won't have to contend with Grandma-activists ), so you can see if I deserve this money more than these Hollywood-types (if you want an un-edited version, e-mail me:


----------



## cignus_pfaccari (Jan 26, 2005)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> Spawn (I will always regret that my friend had me see that one for full price)




Oh, this brings back memories.

I went to GWU, which is in DC.  I and three other friends went to see Spawn at this one AMC theater that was out in Virginia burbs and hadn't seen GWU IDs.  Two of us, who've just graduated, used their old GWU student IDs.  I use my handy-dandy UK student ID, and the one guy who's actually going to GWU, and has one of the new ones...is screwed, and has to pay full price.  Oh, he was angry.  He was even angrier after the movie was over.

Brad


----------



## cignus_pfaccari (Jan 26, 2005)

Bad movies...oh, let's see.  I just mentioned Spawn, but it wasn't really that bad.  Then again, I thought it was going to be bad to begin with.

The Blair Witch Project:  By the end, I was rooting for the witch, as people that stupid shouldn't be allowed to live.
The Piano:  To be fair, the night I saw this sucked.  However, it was like what I imagine a bad romance novel to be, with completely bash-me-over-the-head imagery.  Oy.

I avoided tDAT, as it just seemed stupid.  "Oh, look, global warming will shut down the Atlantic Conveyer and freeze Europe and the East Coast!!!!"  "That's nice...so how do we get tornado swarms in Hollywood out of this?"

I also ran away from Alexander, too.  I don't care who he's in bed with, he's supposed to, I don't know, CONQUER THE KNOWN WORLD!!!!  That's the point, not whether or not he had maternal issues.  Yeesh.

The last really bad movie I saw was the Animatrix.  Not all of it was bad...the part with the kids finding the leak zone was kind of cool, and the short that bankrupted Square Animation was neat, but The Second Renaissance was absurdly stupid.  It makes Matrix Revolutions look like the best movie ever produced, in comparison.

Brad


----------



## Barendd Nobeard (Jan 26, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> I'm really surprised not to see Plan 9 From Outer Space on that list.  It's regarded by many as the worst film ever made.
> 
> I own it on DVD (it's in the "so bad you have to see it" category) and I have to agree.  WOW it's bad.  My favorite bit is the cops who gesture constantly with their loaded guns, including scratching their heads with the barrels...



But people only call P9fOS the "worst film ever" because it was so named in the book "The Golden Turkeys" (which mentions a lot of bad films).  There are even worse films by Ed Wood (the schlockmeister behind P9fOS), like "Night of the Ghoul" or "The Sinister Urge."

I love P9fOS, though--it was the first DVD I bought.    You're right about the cops pointing with their guns--that's hysterical.  I also love the tombstone that springs back up after someone knocks it down.  And the snappy dialogue can't be beat.  "Because all you of Earth are IDIOTS!"

I once had a student doing a scene from P9fOS at a speech tournament in "Dramatic Interpretation" - he made the finals (and beat someone, placing 5th out of 6 finalists), and was quite mortified by doing that even that "well" with that selection.

And, of course, there are movies far worse than P9fOS from other directors.  "At Long Last Love" from Peter Bogdonavich, for example.  Or "Bonfire of the Vanities" from Brian DePalma (he should stick to ripping off Hitchcock).

My vote for worst movie--so bad I wish I hadn't wasted my time on it (and for me, one really bad bit can make a horrible movie worth it, so it's pretty hard for me to pick one that didn't even have 3 seconds worth watching) would have to be "Chronicles of Riddick."  I tried to watch it, I really did.  But after 20 minutes, my brain took over and forced my hand to press 'stop' on the remote.  Remember, I own "Plan 9 from Outer Space" on DVD.  I can watch anything.  I also own "Bluebeard" (starring Richard Burton and Joey Heatherton) and "Satan's Cheerleaders" (starring, uh, well, no one really, but Yvonne DeCarlo (from "The Munsters") is in it) on dvd.  But I could not stomach "Chronicles of Riddick" at all.  Sorry, Vin.


----------



## Acid_crash (Jan 26, 2005)

I forgot about Highlander 2...  why'd ya'll have to dreg up bad memories???

still, the Renegade version did at least get rid of all that crap about planet zeist or whatever planet they came up with...and did away with a couple of other scenes and added in a few that made it tolerable compared to Street Fighter.

Oh, the headache just started.

I liked the Matrix trilogy, but no matter how they ended the trilogy, it was a disspointment because of how good the first movie was, and they just could not live up to the first movie's success.

I'm glad I've never seen Scarlet Letter.

I'll also agree that Spawn was just a horrible movie.  I want a remake with McFarlen working on the script AND story AND special effects and it should be rated R, not the PG13 crap we were given.  Some of the special effects were okay, but oh my god they went overboard on one liners.  At least Clown was done right.  Right?


----------



## Barendd Nobeard (Jan 26, 2005)

But now that I think of it, "Super Mario Bros." is even worse.  Wow.  Not bad enough to be enjoyable.  I hope everyone involved enjoyed the drugs the ingested when signing up for that turkey.  It's the only explanation for why anyone would sign up to be in it.


----------



## Eremite (Jan 26, 2005)

Tank Girl was the first movie I walked out of for being so abysmally bad.

I've simply stopped seeing movies featuring Ben Affleck as his presence seems to scream "this is will be garbage".

Star Wars Episode II was also pretty bad except that the special effects were so good in the set pieces that it's probably not fair to label it one of the worst movies ever.


----------



## Esteban (Jan 26, 2005)

> Dungeons and Dragons was better than tDAT. 

No way. That simply impossible. I've not seen tDAT, but that movie can't be as bad as the DND  movie. How do you sink lower than the bottom? 

>Go see Dark City. You will have to scratch out TDAT.

Huh!? Have to TOTALLY disagree. Dark City was a great movie.  

-Steve


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Jan 26, 2005)

Now I love camp bad movies that are fun to watch.

Sorceress: ah yes, that was a bad movie, but fun to watch. It still has one of my favorite movie lines.

Dude, Where's My Car: Wrongly advertised as a teen ciomedy. It realy is a sci-fi spoof. And a good one to boot. I introduced several people to this movie and they all liked it.


----------



## VirgilCaine (Jan 26, 2005)

Logan said:
			
		

> If you've ever seen Out for a Kill, you'd know that is the stupidest movie ever.
> 
> Let me just say this:  Steven Seagal.   In a fake mullet.




As an archaeologist. In a leather trenchcoat. Am I right?



> Dude, Where's My Car: Wrongly advertised as a teen ciomedy. It realy is a sci-fi spoof. And a good one to boot. I introduced several people to this movie and they all liked it.




Zartan!


----------



## Logan (Jan 26, 2005)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> As an archaeologist. In a leather trenchcoat. Am I right?
> 
> 
> Yep.  That's it.   I'm glad I saw that for free, or I'd be in therapy _now._


----------



## Qlippoth (Jan 26, 2005)

Even though I do agree with the opinion that "Transylvania 6-5000" was quite awful, I'd have to say that the absolute worst movie I've ever seen was "The Doom Generation" (a Greg Araki picture). Don't get me wrong--watching Rose McGowan run around topless does wonders for me--but the insipid, trite, let's-quote-the-Cocteau-Twins screenplay completely negates said naughtiness by drowning it in absolute crap. A worthless, worthless movie.

And I've seen plenty of bad movies; believe me.


----------



## Turanil (Jan 26, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Matrix 2 & 3, especially 3. That one's far worse than Highlander 2, and that's a really, really bad movie!
> 
> Matrix 3 is my vote for the worst movie of all time!



You are trying to aggravate us all, don't you?


----------



## Thanee (Jan 26, 2005)

Uhm... no. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Klaus (Jan 26, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Depends. What language was it in?



 I can't recall...
In fact, it's for the best... the thing is dragging memories of Highlander 2 and other movies from the same caliber to the fore...

::gaaaaaah!::

The horror! The horror!


----------



## Hand of Evil (Jan 26, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> Worst movie ever? The question takes me back to the late '70s, maybe around 1980. Believe the movie was called "The Sorceress", or maube "Sword and Sorceror". Something like that. Maybe someone here remembers it. It featured two busty blondes, playing twins seperated at birth. One was raised as an unlikely ugly duckling peasant girl, the other as the son (!!!!!) of a king or somesuch who doesn't realise "he" is a buxom woman. Met as adults in unlikely circumstances, the "young man" revealed as a leggy beauty, etc etc. Bad English accents, insanely stupid plot and all...



Don't forget the curse!  When one felt something the other did too, most often show during sex!  That movie was horrid.  

Mazes and monsters was damn stupid.


----------



## drnuncheon (Jan 26, 2005)

Tanager said:
			
		

> Yup thats right up there at the top for me, along with the 1999 Sci-Fi version of Beowulf starring the very same Chris Lambert.




Oh, wow. Beowulf.  Is it time to post my review again?

J


----------



## Warrior Poet (Jan 26, 2005)

Eremite said:
			
		

> Tank Girl was the first movie I walked out of for being so abysmally bad.




Have to admit a soft spot for _Tank Girl_.  It's not a good movie, certainly, but I think its heart was in the right place, and it had a lot of fun moments:

{Tank Girl (Lori Petty) drives up next to evil henchmen's truck on a tank with a giant rocket launcher.  She's sitting astride the rocket.  Henchman looks over.  Tank Girl beams and says,}

"Hi!  Feeling a little inadequate?"

I laughed.

{Scene at the bad guy's club where Tank Girl has walked in and wrecked the place, and is holding all the bad dudes at gunpoint.  She forces them to do a song-and-dance number.  Goons listening in on the p.a. system are trying to figure out what's going on, why the rest of the goon squad isn't attacking Tank Girl.}

Goon 1:  "What is that noise?"
Goon 2:  "Cole Porter, sir."

Again, I laughed.

Not a great film, but fun.  Not to mention it had an appearance by Naomi Watts (before she was famous) as Jet Girl.  And she was a brunette.  With cute glasses. 

And Ice-T was dressed up as one of the mutant kangaroo gangsters that helps out Tank Girl.  What's not to love?   

Warrior Poet


----------



## Wystan (Jan 26, 2005)

Superman IV the Quest for Peace -  Nuff Said.


----------



## Desdichado (Jan 26, 2005)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> Dude, Where's My Car: Wrongly advertised as a teen ciomedy. It realy is a sci-fi spoof. And a good one to boot. I introduced several people to this movie and they all liked it.



Totally.  I'm not sure if I've actually met anyone who's seen that movie who didn't like it, although a lot of people were turned off by the very premise of it.  My wife and I both quite liked it.


----------



## Felix (Jan 26, 2005)

Zardoz.
Zardoz.
Zardoz.

I saw two names... John Boorman and Sean Connery and thought... James Bond directed by Excalibur? You can't go wrong! 

Yes. Yes you can.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 26, 2005)

drnuncheon said:
			
		

> Oh, wow. Beowulf.  Is it time to post my review again?
> 
> J



 Please do!



Not even the babeliciousness of Rhona Mitra could save this one...


----------



## KnowTheToe (Jan 26, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Whoah. Really? I think you're the first geek I've known to not adore that movie.
> 
> It's among my favourite cinema trips since, well, ever.
> 
> EDIT: No, wait, second geek.




I know I am not alone cause the people I saw it with thought the same, but on these boards, I am in the minority.  The metal battles had me rolling my eyes and just praying the thing would end.  I know we can all like crappy movies, heck, I liked Howard the Duck and ya can't get much crapier than that.


----------



## Qlippoth (Jan 27, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> Zardoz.
> Zardoz.
> Zardoz.
> 
> ...



"Stay close to my aura."


----------



## Dagger75 (Jan 27, 2005)

-My picks for worst-

 Freddy Got Fingered  

 Nutty Professor 2

 I personally think DnD gets a bad rap from us gamers.  Sure it wasn't up to our standards but it wasn't that bad.  I enjoyed DnD more than Elektra.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 27, 2005)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> I know I am not alone cause the people I saw it with thought the same, but on these boards, I am in the minority. The metal battles had me rolling my eyes and just praying the thing would end. I know we can all like crappy movies, heck, I liked Howard the Duck and ya can't get much crapier than that.



I liked Howard the Duck, too. And it is a crappy movie. But I don't think Dark City 
is a bad movie at all. I don't see it as a guilty pleasure or such. 

Dark City was just... brilliant.

But different strokes and all that, I guess.

But you know, sometimes you just find it hard to believe that someone doesn't like 
something. Like when you tell girls you don't really care for chocolate. I love that
movie.

But ignore my ranting an' all.


----------



## drnuncheon (Jan 31, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Please do!
> 
> 
> 
> Not even the babeliciousness of Rhona Mitra could save this one...




As you wish...

<tt>*BEOWULF* (originally posted to rec.ards.tv.mst3k.misc, IIRC)

Just finished watching this direct-to-video release (well, OK, it was released theatrically in Europe, which says nothing for their taste) and as it is of that "entertainingly bad" level of quality that spawns so many great MST episodes, I thought I'd recommend it here with a short summary. So, read on, but spoilers abound!

As the movie opens, a fortress with a giant mechanical flaming claw on top of it (a sure sign of a quality movie) is under seige. Inside the fortress, a group of armored warriors lead by Hrothgar are hunting a monster. Cleverly, Hrothgar has donned a helmet with no eyeslits before going after the beast. This prevents him from seeing that his daughter's breasts are prepared to spring free from her leather bodice. However, it does not work well against the monster, who kills a few of Hrothgar's friends.

After watching this, a girl (not the daughter, a different girl) decides to run for it. She is caught by the beseiging army, who prepare to execute her with a giant straight-razor. Enter Christopher Lambert. Lambert stars as Conor MacLeod - although he's changed his name to Beowulf, after borrowing Keanu Reeves' wardrobe from THE MATRIX and Wesley Snipes' arsenal from BLADE. He beats up on the beseigers and rescues the girl, but she runs away
and dies anyway.

Well, he enters the castle, finds out that it's being terrorized by a guy in a rubber suit and a small CGI budget, and offers to help. First he has to prove himself by defeating the castle's current badass (who is obviously not as badass as Grendel, otherwise the movie would be over already).

Then Hrothgar gets seduced by a Samantha Fox impersonator who is _way _too attached to her hair crimper. Oh, and Grendel kills some people.

To protect the women and children, they herd them all into a small enclosed space where nobody can get in except for Grendel. This minor flaw in their plans is quickly discovered, and Beowulf confronts the monster in a scene with choreography reminiscent of the classic martial arts film GYMKHATA. Not surprisingly, he gets clawed to ribbons.

</tt><tt>But it's OK, because he gets better, and decides that since fighting the monster with his entire arsenal and a bunch of people helping didn't work, he should confront the beast alone and unarmed except for a spring-loaded dagger made by the inept assistant weaponsmaster (played by some sort of substitute Wayans brother). So he climbs down into the cellars of the Paris Opera House and stands in the middle of the room and waits.

Well, that doesn't work too well, because the monster runs up and whacks him. Undaunted, he tries it again, and it works about as well the second time. Eventually he gets the idea of fighting back, and he uses the dagger to rip Grendel's arm off. He then lets the creature go, because the movie's still got about half an hour before its over.

Anyway, everybody's happy, he sleeps with the girl, and the former resident
badass is seduced by the Samantha Fox lookalike (remember her?). Beowulf gets nervous, because there's an "older and more subtle evil" around, and it's making his spider-sense tingle. When he and the girl get to the main hall, we discover that "subtle" means killing people by making them bleed from their ears and mouths, rather than ripping them in half - a very important distinction.

Anyway, Grendel is still alive and kills Hrothgar, and Beowulf kills Grendel. Then the Samantha Fox lookalike shows up and tries to seduce Beowulf, but homie don't play dat, and so she turns into the Borg Queen crossed with a spider and a bat courtesy of the rest of the film's CGI budget. There's some more acrobatic fighting, Beowulf discovers that she has propane for blood, and uses a lamp to blow her up.

In classic B-movie tradition, the castle inexplicably begins to fall apart, and he and the girl escape to go wander around the world fighting evil.

The movie is set to a hideously inappropriate techno soundtrack - my wife is of the opinion that it was trying to be Mortal Kombat, but Lambert was clearly playing MacLeod and not Raiden, so I'm not too sure. Anyway, give it a watch if you're in the mood for that sort of thing.</tt>


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 31, 2005)

Lambert's Beowulf was horrible. I have never seen a positive review of it.


----------



## Desdichado (Jan 31, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Lambert's Beowulf was horrible. I have never seen a positive review of it.



I'm not sure that a review who's primary conclusion is essentially, that the movie would be great MST3K fodder could really be called positive...


----------



## Lorgrom (Jan 31, 2005)

For me two of the worst movie ever was Willow, and Ferhenite 911 (hate it so much I can't even spell it right).


----------



## Fast Learner (Jan 31, 2005)

Definitely baffled by some of y'all's taste. _Dark City_ is brilliant, _Scream_ was clever though not good, _Mad Max_ has plenty of charm, _The Core_ was quite enjoyable, _Lost in Space_ was sci-fi candy fun, _Spawn_ was watchable, _The Transporter_ was fun enough, _Zardoz_ was freakin' awesome (though I'll admit that it was the first movie in which I'd seen naked breasts, at age 9, so that probably helped), _Transylvania 6-5000_ was a hoot (though again, Geena Davis' costume certainly helped), that version of _The Scarlet Letter_ was fine, _Awakenings_ was amazing, _Tank Girl_ absolutely rocked, and _Howard the Duck_ was... well, not too bad.

However, _Dude, Where's My Car_ was really, really awful. _Highlander 2_ was worse, but only by a hair.

The only movie, however, that I actually wanted to walk out of was _Blue Steel_, with Jamie Lee Curtis. The most predictable, awful piece of garbage I've watched in a theater.


----------



## JimAde (Jan 31, 2005)

I know everyone will point and laugh, but I actually liked Willow.  I like the fact that the hero is singularly un-heroic, and his greatest talent is that he's a good dad and a decent person.

The Core was, I suppose, a fine b-grade action movie, but I couldn't get past the bad (Bad BAD BAD!!) science.


----------



## Desdichado (Jan 31, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> I know everyone will point and laugh, but I actually liked Willow.  I like the fact that the hero is singularly un-heroic, and his greatest talent is that he's a good dad and a decent person.



Why would they do that?  Until the LotR releases, it was certainly a contender for best fantasy movie made to date.  Not that that's saying a whole lot, but still...

I like it for a long time too; until I just rewatched it recently, as a matter of fact, where it seemed worse than I remembered.


			
				JimAde said:
			
		

> The Core was, I suppose, a fine b-grade action movie, but I couldn't get past the bad (Bad BAD BAD!!) science.



Actually, the science wasn't really _that_ bad.  I remember Jon Rodgers (sic?) posting here shortly after its release explaining some of the scientific "interpretations" they had made.  True, a few items were completely jumps into fantasy, but others were based on pretty good speculation and interpolation of what we do understand.  A big problem, though, is that movies simply don't have the opportunity to jump in and _explain_ it to the satisfaction of geeks like us who like that kinda thing, like, say, a Michael Crichton novel might attempt to do.


----------



## Ferret (Jan 31, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I thought that Day After Tommorrow wasn't all that bad. Its definitely a "Turn Brain Off" movie, but there's tons of those already so I've got lots of practice.





Turn what off? Oh that, maybe next time I see it, I was too caught up in the moment to even notice what was wrong with the helicopter scene.

I liked other ones that were meant to be stoopid, like I, robot.

One I thought was aweful was Darkman. Urgh.


----------



## Evilhalfling (Jan 31, 2005)

My mind is bleeding from this litinay of bad moves - 
I want to add Fortress -although a friend of mind fixed this with editing 
he cut off the last 5 min after a large explosion and left in the credits. 
It was far more watchable after this.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 31, 2005)

I love Darkman. The sequals aren't that bad, either. Corny, but fun. Pulpy, even.

I, Robot was really surprising. I only went to see it because the movie we were going 
to see was sold out. I really expected it to suck. But it didn't. It was pretty fun.

Didn't find out until the credits rolled that I found out Alex Proyas directed it. The  
director of The Crow and, well, Dark City.


----------



## Narfellus (Jan 31, 2005)

I can't believe that any geek here wouldn't like Dark City. That was a wildy creative, imaginative movie. The worse movie ever, in my limited experience, would have to go to...dum ta da dum...

PUMPKINHEAD 2: Blood Wings

Bad bad bad bad bad. Which is too bad, because the demon from the first one was kind of nifty looking (although the movie really wasn't that great either).


----------



## Narfellus (Jan 31, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Definitely baffled by some of y'all's taste. _Dark City_ is brilliant, _Scream_ was clever though not good, _Mad Max_ has plenty of charm, _The Core_ was quite enjoyable, _Lost in Space_ was sci-fi candy fun, _Spawn_ was watchable, _The Transporter_ was fun enough, _Zardoz_ was freakin' awesome (though I'll admit that it was the first movie in which I'd seen naked breasts, at age 9, so that probably helped), _Transylvania 6-5000_ was a hoot (though again, Geena Davis' costume certainly helped), that version of _The Scarlet Letter_ was fine, _Awakenings_ was amazing, _Tank Girl_ absolutely rocked, and _Howard the Duck_ was... well, not too bad.
> 
> However, _Dude, Where's My Car_ was really, really awful. _Highlander 2_ was worse, but only by a hair.
> 
> The only movie, however, that I actually wanted to walk out of was _Blue Steel_, with Jamie Lee Curtis. The most predictable, awful piece of garbage I've watched in a theater.




Scream WAS bad, but surprisingly enough I liked Scream 2 much better, and then hated Scream 3. Go figure. Lost in Space had great potential but wasted it, saved only by great Sfx; Spawn had it's moments, still not great; Zardoz was WEIRD; Howard the Duck...don't remember it too well. Guess that doesn't say much. And whole Highlander series after the first one should have the celluloid burned...


----------



## Rigil Kent (Jan 31, 2005)

Man, how can you guys forget to add Showgirls to the list?  I remember paying money for that tripe and looking around midway through to exchange "OMG, what am I watching?" looks with the three or four other people.  Even the nudity couldn't save that movie.    

Highlander 2 still tops my list and "I'm Conor McLeod from the planet Zeist" pops up in the gaming group every now and again.  It's always followed by groans.

And how can you diss Battlefield Earth?  That is the greatest comedy I've ever seen!    Seriously, watch it again AS A COMEDY and you won't be disappointed.  It was on the Sci-Fi network some months ago and my sides were hurting from laughing so much.

Presto2112, Bubbleboy is freaking hilarious!  If you've ever played GURPS and have heard of a Weirdness Magnet, that dude is a perfect example!  I was forced to watch it by an ex-roommate and found it to be a lot of fun.

I think I'm going to have to side with Thanee though; Matrix 2&3 were soooo bad I suspect my head exploded.  Bad bad bad bad...


----------



## Desdichado (Jan 31, 2005)

Rigil Kent said:
			
		

> Matrix 2&3 were soooo bad I suspect my head exploded.  Bad bad bad bad...



At least Matrix Reloaded had the Best Car Chase in the History of CinemaTM to assuage the really bad story.  The chateau fight scene wasn't too bad either.


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 31, 2005)

Rigil Kent said:
			
		

> I think I'm going to have to side with Thanee though; Matrix 2&3 were soooo bad I suspect my head exploded.  Bad bad bad bad...




Starting with the eyes...

And a shoutout to a fellow SWRPGer!


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jan 31, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> At least Matrix Reloaded had the Best Car Chase in the History of CinemaTM to assuage the really bad story.  The chateau fight scene wasn't too bad either.



 Agreed. Matrix 2 and 3 really are "Turn Brain Off, Watch Things Go Boom" movies. They're fun action movies which people expected too much of(not without reason, either.)


----------



## Pants (Feb 1, 2005)

_Freddy Got Fingered_ ranks pretty high on my 'oh-my-god why won't the pain stop?!' list.

I remember seeing a movie called _Space Truckers_ several years ago.  It had Dennis Hopper so it couldn't be THAT bad... could it?!  I should've stopped watching when Norm got sucked out of a space-window ass-first.

_Super Mario Bros_ while technically bad, still has some sort of charm to me.  Were people really expecting something accurate to the games?  If that had happened, you'd have watched a movie where Bob Hoskins runs horizontal on a 2d landscape and occasionally jumping on the heads of walking mushrooms.

_Zardoz_ was with the diaper-wearing Sean Connery movie, right?  Only saw bits and pieces of that...

_Twister_ is fairly stupid, though not painfully so.


----------



## Captain Howdy (Feb 1, 2005)

FCWesel said:
			
		

> Check out "Lost Highway" if you want real stupidity.





...

Perhaps you haven't seen the movie?

Either that or you don't understand David Lynch.


----------



## Mystery Man (Feb 1, 2005)

> _Zardoz_ was with the diaper-wearing Sean Connery movie, right?  Only saw bits and pieces of that...




Bad Sean Connery movies are numerous, he's been in some real stinkers. 

Zardoz (he's the one who has to look himself in the mirror every day for that one), The Legend of Gawain and the Green Knight (look at my manly chest hair!), Robin and Marian (oh, so bad) , Finding Forester (zzzznnxx...*humpf*...wha?...is it over already?...) and yet the list goes on and on for those great ones where he redeems himself. Quite a career.


----------



## madriel (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm lucky.  The two worst movies I've ever paid money to see have to be Wing Commander and The Avengers.  I went into Wing Commander expecting it to be bad in a campy sort of way and it didn't even manage that.  I saw The Avengers with my boyfriend and another couple and we kept telling each other "it'll get better, any second now, it'll get better" and it instead it kept getting worse.

I've seen some bad movies courtesy of friends who worship at the Altar of Art House.  One of the worst was Sarah Polley in a beauty and the beast takeoff set in Iceland.  Bad, bad movie.  I think it was called No Such Thing.  Something like that.


----------



## Silver Moon (Feb 1, 2005)

Wystan said:
			
		

> Superman IV the Quest for Peace -  Nuff Said.




Yeah, that one was pretty bad.  But I think that Supergirl was worse.


----------



## Greylock (Feb 1, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Don't forget the curse!  When one felt something the other did too, most often show during sex!  That movie was horrid.




AHA! That movie wasn't some horribly malformed teenage memory!

(This is happens when I ignore a thread for several days. I miss relevant replies ;p.)

I was beginning to think I had been a party to some bad Hollywood joke, a pathetic marketing experiment that only my father and I were party to. You wouldn't happen to recall the name of the movie, HoE? Pops and I were talking about it not long ago, but it's too far abck for either of us to remember what it was called.

And yes, we paid good money to see it in the cinema, first run.


----------



## Rigil Kent (Feb 1, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> At least Matrix Reloaded had the Best Car Chase in the History of CinemaTM to assuage the really bad story.




If you say so.  I actually preferred the car chase in _Ronin_ to that one.  The chateau scene had a few minor moments of cool but not enough.

And damn you, Pants, for bringing back memories of Space Truckers!  OMG, that movie was horrible.  Not Highlander 2 horrible but dangerously, dangerously close.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Feb 1, 2005)

While the Avengers was horrible I admit, it was saved from worst status by the one seen with all the bad guys in teddy bear outfits. Now that was funny.


----------



## Qlippoth (Feb 1, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> I was beginning to think I had been a party to some bad Hollywood joke, a pathetic marketing experiment that only my father and I were party to. You wouldn't happen to recall the name of the movie, HoE? Pops and I were talking about it not long ago, but it's too far abck for either of us to remember what it was called.



I envy you.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086340...yY2VyZXNzfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=4;ft=20;fm=1



			
				Greylock said:
			
		

> AHA! That movie wasn't some horribly malformed teenage memory!



Just keep telling yourself that!


----------



## Kast (Feb 1, 2005)

Waterworld
Judge Dredd
Warriors of Virtue
Gymkata
Wild Wild West
Cat in the Hat


----------



## Goodsport (Feb 1, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Transylvaia 6-5000 (thanks for reminding me, Goodsport... I went through so much trouble to forget it in the first place...)




Sorry about that.  

I was flipping through channels a few weeks ago when lo and behold, for some reason the Sci-Fi Channel was showing _Translyvania 6-5000_.  I decided to watch a little bit of it see if perhaps my opinion of it was too harsh (as I had only seen it once all those years ago).

As it turns out, my opinion of it wasn't harsh _enough_.  The film is _worse_ than I had previously remembered it. 


-G


----------



## Narfellus (Feb 1, 2005)

Oh, that's right. Avengers WAS awful. Forgot about that one. Eww. And i never thought Waterworld was that bad of a movie. Too expensive yes, hokey, yes, ripoff of madmax, yes...but BAD? I wouldn't say it was painful in the same vein as lots of other contenders.


----------



## ddvmor (Feb 1, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> At least Matrix Reloaded had the Best Car Chase in the History of CinemaTM to assuage the really bad story. The chateau fight scene wasn't too bad either.




I thought that too, until I saw the chase in Bad Boys 2.  With the boat.  That was so much cooler!

So that leaves Matrix Reloaded with...  er... Keanu's fine performance?


----------



## jasper (Feb 1, 2005)

Hmm Flowers in the attic is in there. It was advertised as horror thriller. I couldn’t remember that all the teen age girls were reading in high school. Ouch. My friend forgave me because it was at the 99 cent theatre. 

Red neck zombies. The only film in my group which had 3 first places in bad video night. Bad video night was night we get together with people from out of town and out of state and socialize and see who could bring the worse movie. I got an honorable mention because I saw in the movie galley and left it and just brought snacks. Strangely just after Red Neck Zombies bad video night ended. 

Reign of Fire goes to my “What Walmart now has a $3 dvd bin” wait and buy list. It cost me $10 to see it. I don’t whether I want my $5 for the movie or the popcorn and soda.

Hmm 
Okay “The Norseman” with Steve Austin the bionic puppet.
The other I can't find in any listing.
Its star was Nichelle Nichols of Star trek fame playing an Army officer with a group of young officers and enlisted who camp on a civil war gravesite and tick off the rebel ghosts. It was shot in Alabama I believe around the seventies .


----------



## Mystery Man (Feb 1, 2005)

ddvmor said:
			
		

> I thought that too, until I saw the chase in Bad Boys 2.  With the boat.  That was so much cooler!
> 
> So that leaves Matrix Reloaded with...  er... Keanu's fine performance?




I beg to differ, Bourne Supremacy has the best car chase ever.


----------



## ddvmor (Feb 1, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> I beg to differ, Bourne Supremacy has the best car chase ever.




Haven't seen it yet.  Now I'm just gonna have to.

Car chases are cool.  They need their own thread...


----------



## Thanee (Feb 1, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Agreed. Matrix 2 and 3 really are "Turn Brain Off, Watch Things Go Boom" movies. They're fun action movies which people expected too much of(not without reason, either.)




That's exactly the problem. There are often movies that do not live up to the expectations, but in this case the discrepancy between expectations and result were so high you could develop a vertigo from it.

Bye
Thanee


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## mojo1701 (Feb 1, 2005)

ddvmor said:
			
		

> er... Keanu's fine performance?





His most excellent performance!


----------



## Greylock (Feb 1, 2005)

Ahhh, thanks Qlippoth. So it was "Sorceress" after all.

I love this comment...



> If there were any justice in the universe, the creators of this movie would be rounded up and burned alive on top of all existing copies of this incredibly stupid waste of celluloid.
> 
> The ONLY good thing in the movie is seeing the twins topless, but even that couldn't make me watch this movie again.




Hard to believe this is the same guy who brought us Foxy Brown and Coffy. Wait, I guess it's not so hard.


----------



## ddvmor (Feb 1, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> His most excellent performance!




Sixty Nine, Dudes.


----------



## Warrior Poet (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm going to have to leave the thread now.  A lot of the really bad movies are starting to wear me down, and I haven't even heard of many of them! (_Redneck Zombies_?)  

Warrior Poet


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## Desdichado (Feb 1, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> I beg to differ, Bourne Supremacy has the best car chase ever.



Eh, it had the most potential, but I thought it ultimately failed to deliver.  I hated the cut-scene, hand-held camera work all the time, which made it impossible to ever actually see what was going on.


----------



## D+1 (Feb 2, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> I beg to differ, Bourne Supremacy has the best car chase ever.



Nonsense.  At the VERY least Ronin and To Live and Die in L.A. have equally good if not superior car fu.


----------



## Omote (Feb 2, 2005)

RONIN, best car chase in cinema history, hands down IMO.

Worst movie... ooh, that's still a toughy, but LOST HIGHWAY is rediculously bad.

..................................Omote
FPQ


----------



## D+1 (Feb 2, 2005)

Well, I have racked my brain for... oh, several minutes now to come up with the stupidest ever.  What I can provide are the three movies that I managed to think of that really, truly, honestly, were the most UNFORGIVABLY bad movies.  Movies that might have been even so lowly as barely tolerable but simply cannot be forgiven for being as bad as they were.  So bad that production should have NEVER been completed much less the results foisted on a paying public.  UNFORGIVABLE.

Highlander 2
The Avengers
Hollow Man

These were movies with NO WORTHY EXCUSE to have been as bad as they were.  They had significant budgets, talented actors, a devoted fanbase... or at least two out of three of these.  These were movies which writers, directors, producers, actors and studios should have PUBLICLY AND HUMBLY APOLOGIZED FOR because they were inexcusably pathetic.  And what's more they CHARGED people to see them.  Endeavored to keep their SHAMEFUL efforts a secret for as long as possible in order to defraud the public out of money.  Knowingly foisting upon ua films that in no way could be legitimately described as "entertainment".  These movies failed in every way to be entertaining.

There are probably more that I would add to the list but movies THIS bad, this EGGREGIOUS, are rare and fortunately I seldom get tricked into seeing them in a theater.  It's one thing for a movie to have no budget and be UNDERSTANDABLY awful.  For untalented actors to drag a production into the ground.  For producers to have been stupid enough, or desperate enough to back projects that they COULD have known to be unworthy.  Plan 9 can be excused because Ed Wood WAS the world's worst director ever.  But to have so much potential, so much money wasted by otherwise talented people who SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER, who should have PERFORMED better at their jobs, and then still did their level best to lie to the public in order to get us to pay for the EXPENSES OF _THEIR_ ABJECT FAILURE.

It takes a special movie to earn that quality - UNFORGIVABLE.


----------



## Captain Howdy (Feb 2, 2005)

Omote said:
			
		

> Worst movie... ooh, that's still a toughy, but LOST HIGHWAY is rediculously bad.
> 
> ..................................Omote
> FPQ




GAH! Another vote for Lost Highway??? Can't a director do anything creative without being put down by people?

I still insist that anyone who thinks the movie is stupid just doesn't get it...  :\  (all opinions aside of couse. everyone is free to have their opinion and say the movie sucks... but it's nowhere near the neighborhood of stupid.)


----------



## Narfellus (Feb 2, 2005)

Howdy, I have to agree with others that i did not by any stretch like or enjoy Lost Highway. Was it BAD? Bad as in incomprehensible...yes. If i watch a movie for 2 hours i want to understand what happened. Could you PLEASE shed some light in your opinion as to what that movie was about if you know? 

Oh man oh man...Redneck Zombies. YEah, it was bad, but funny bad as in it KNEW it was bad and wasn't striving for anything more than cheap cheap zombie entertainment.


----------



## Mallus (Feb 2, 2005)

Captain Howdy said:
			
		

> GAH! Another vote for Lost Highway??? Can't a director do anything creative without being put down by people?



I hear you. I liked Zardoz... its a spectular failure, but an interesting, at times compelling, spectacular failure. Give me a floating stone head vomitting out guns over the likes of Morgan Freeman and some white woman in jeopardy any day...


----------



## Thotas (Feb 2, 2005)

yep, I'm going to join those who defend "Zardoz" as an interesting experiment, that does actually entertain at some moments.  

Some of the others mentioned, however ... it's hard to say what's more irredeemable.  Supergirl ... I rewatched it on TV once to see if it was as bad as I remembered.  Turned out that not only were the really bad moments still there, the ones in between were much more boring than I remembered.  

The Avengers ... my DVDs of Patrick McNee and Diana Rigg have helped me recover, thankfully.

I know lots of people who say they like Willow.  For the life of me, I never know how they figure that.

I've never seen The Core, I admit; I heard about it and decided to show some respect for the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum.

Lost in Space was evil.

If Waterworld wasn't the stupidest movie of all time, it certainly set the record for demonstrating that it would be stupid early in the show.  Hey, Kevin!  That water filter thing you're using in the opening scene?  Wouldn't you feel a lot better using some of that omnipresent saltwater than recycling your own????

I didn't see Matrix 2 or 3.  That's because I hated the first one so much.  Yes, I said it.  I hate the Matrix, thought it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.  I'm a heretic, a blasphemer.  When it came out on video, I tried giving it another go since everyone else seemed to love it so much.  Maybe I missed something?  Nope, just like Supergirl, even worse the second time.  

And as long as I'm trashing movies with Keanu in them, let me add a flick nobody else has mentioned:  The Gift.  Really bad show.


----------



## drnuncheon (Feb 2, 2005)

D+1 said:
			
		

> Nonsense.  At the VERY least Ronin and To Live and Die in L.A. have equally good if not superior car fu.




How anyone can talk about great car chases without even mentioning the Blues Brothers is beyond me.

J


----------



## Tyler Do'Urden (Feb 3, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Agreed. Matrix 2 and 3 really are "Turn Brain Off, Watch Things Go Boom" movies. They're fun action movies which people expected too much of(not without reason, either.)




Au Contraire!  The main reason people didn't care for 2 and 3 was that they did watch them with their brains off- and both movies are extremely "brains on".  The first Matrix film was extremely Manichean, good vs. evil- the second and third revealed that we live in a much more complicated world, a multi-layered, multi-dimensioned reality.  The first movie was pure gnostic ascent- the second and third were about integration.  I got this- and was nothing short of blown away by them.  Of course, I'd read the relevant philosophers and scientists that the Wachowskis borrowed from...

Watch them with the commentaries in the ultimate boxed set, they're much more understandable that way (if you can follow Dr. West and Mr. Wilber, that is).  Oh, and make sure you've seen The Second Renaissance- that helps as well.

(Someone on this thread ridiculed The Second Renaissance- they've gotta be out of their fleepin minds!  That was the most terrifying twenty minutes of animated footage I've ever seen in my life... the sheer feeling of desolation at human stupidity, the Buddhist imagery, the machines as protagonists... wow...)

But yeah, the Matrix sequels are great films, and I don't get why folks think otherwise...


----------



## Klaus (Feb 3, 2005)

I was forgetting one:

Wild Wild West.

Not even Salma Hayek's butt saved this one...


----------



## mhacdebhandia (Feb 3, 2005)

I am simultaneously pleased and saddened that someone else - multiple people, in fact - saw fit to mention *Redneck Zombies*http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093833/combined.

Seriously. Even as a joke, it makes me wish harm upon the filmmakers of Biblical proportions. A plague of locusts . . . IN THE ASS . . . sounds about right.


----------



## Vamprey (Feb 3, 2005)

Tanager said:
			
		

> Yup thats right up there at the top for me, along with the 1999 Sci-Fi version of Beowulf starring the very same Chris Lambert.





Oh man, I had managed to forget about that movie. Thanks very much for reminding me that I wasted 2 hours of my life watfching that.    Well ok about 15 minutes it was just to bad to sit through.

For me The Core, Anaconda, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, Escape from LA, Commando with arnie, and Volcano with Tommy Lee Jones are prime cantidates and from my list of movies that I hate that others seem to love for some reason: Troy (only Eric Bana made this at all passable) & Pulp Fiction (argh to horrible to even describe and then people went around quoting it and dancing like JT for ages)


----------



## Narfellus (Feb 3, 2005)

Sorry, but no one here is allowed to badmouth Pulp Fiction or we'll have to collectively get medieval on your ass.


----------



## JimAde (Feb 3, 2005)

Vamprey said:
			
		

> Oh man, I had managed to forget about that movie. Thanks very much for reminding me that I wasted 2 hours of my life watfching that.    Well ok about 15 minutes it was just to bad to sit through.
> 
> For me The Core, Anaconda, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, Escape from LA, Commando with arnie, and Volcano with Tommy Lee Jones are prime cantidates and from my list of movies that I hate that others seem to love for some reason: Troy (only Eric Bana made this at all passable) & Pulp Fiction (argh to horrible to even describe and then people went around quoting it and dancing like JT for ages)



 Attack of the Killer Tomatoes was great.   It was a no-budget spoof of bad no-budget sci-fi movies and I think did a good job with it.

Other than that, I have to agree with you.  I didn't HATE Pulp Fiction but I wasn't as crazy about it as a lot of people.


----------



## Thanee (Feb 3, 2005)

Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> Au Contraire! The main reason people didn't care for 2 and 3 was that they did watch them with their brains off- and both movies are extremely "brains on".




I found them neither entertaining as pure action flicks (because most of the action was just ridiculously stupid (with few exceptions mostly from 2)) and I neither liked what they turned the story into.

I think it was exactly the philosophy part that ruined them completely.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Thanee (Feb 3, 2005)

Thotas said:
			
		

> I know lots of people who say they like Willow.  For the life of me, I never know how they figure that.




It was a nice movie. Not great, but surely not bad. Not compared to some of the other crap put on screen.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Rackhir (Feb 3, 2005)

Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> (Someone on this thread ridiculed The Second Renaissance- they've gotta be out of their fleepin minds!  That was the most terrifying twenty minutes of animated footage I've ever seen in my life... the sheer feeling of desolation at human stupidity, the Buddhist imagery, the machines as protagonists... wow...)




Well Human stupidity is a good description of the Second Renaissance. Why is it that no body ever seems to think that making disposable machines sentient, is a really stupid idea? If you know you are going to be shovelling them into junk heaps, then why, why, why would you make them so that they would object to this? Then there's that bit about "machines being less vunerable to nukes", ah, ever heard of EMP? You know like they were using against the machines in the movies.


----------



## Felix (Feb 3, 2005)

> ever heard of EMP? You know like they were using against the machines in the movies.



Yep. That storyline, while interesting in places, had less "holes" as such, but rather the plot streched over GREAT FATHOMLESS CHASMS that while you were going along had to repeat the mantra "Do not look down" or you would be sucked into what some call "creative license". Bleh.

But yeah, Matrix: Reloaded has the Best Car Chase Ever.


----------



## Mallus (Feb 3, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> Why is it that no body ever seems to think that making disposable machines sentient, is a really stupid idea? If you know you are going to be shovelling them into junk heaps, then why, why, why would you make them so that they would object to this?



Here's one answer: its metaphoric. The robots are stand-ins for (disenfranchised) peoples, 'robot slavery/racism' = 'real slavery/racism'. Plus, its a thought experiment. How will we treat the ulitimate Others --say robots or aliens? Like we did to our fellow human beings?

It doesn't make literal sense, but that isn't the point. 

And while I too have problems accepting sentient toasters in SF, the question 'How can we be so stupid' can be asked of many real human endeavors. Consider our nuclear weapon stockpiles...


----------



## Rackhir (Feb 3, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> Here's one answer: its metaphoric. The robots are stand-ins for (disenfranchised) peoples, 'robot slavery/racism' = 'real slavery/racism'. Plus, its a thought experiment. How will we treat the ulitimate Others --say robots or aliens? Like we did to our fellow human beings?
> 
> It doesn't make literal sense, but that isn't the point.
> 
> And while I too have problems accepting sentient toasters in SF, the question 'How can we be so stupid' can be asked of many real human endeavors. Consider our nuclear weapon stockpiles...




Yes, I got the metaphorical aspects of the story, but being metephorical doesn't excuse you from making sense. If you simply want to club people over the head with some ham handed moral point, then don't try and pretend it makes any sense. There is a fundamental difference between enslaving something that IS already sentient and building something to be sentient and a slave. In the first case you can't control the sentience of the slave. In the second you can and sentience is a serious liability in a disposable item. 

It's one of the reasons why slavery has tended to go away in technological societies. Slaves make very poor workers in jobs where motivation, skill, imagination and education are important. It's estimated that the Germans lost more production than they gained by using slave labor in WW2 especially in places like the V2 factories. 

People may do many stupid things, but however stupid they are, there are at least reasons to explain why they are done. Making disposable sentient machines does not have even this level of support.


----------



## Storm Raven (Feb 3, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> And while I too have problems accepting sentient toasters in SF, the question 'How can we be so stupid' can be asked of many real human endeavors. Consider our nuclear weapon stockpiles...




And yet there are logical reasons for the creation of nuclear weapon stockpiles. And no logical reasons one can give for making sentient toasters.


----------



## Mallus (Feb 3, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> but being metephorical doesn't excuse you from making sense.



Yes, it does. Or least its changes the criteria by which you judge something. You ask "How apt is this"? Or "How subtle"? You're asking too much to require a metaphor (particular in a fabulist work) to make literal/logical sense. 

Should a viewer get caught up in the biological plausbility of giant space seed pods (capable of perfectly duplicating human beings), or just accept the conceit in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? 

Judging an allegory (however crude) the same way you'd judge a work of extrapolation  seems wrongheaded.



> If you simply want to club people over the head with some ham handed moral point



I didn't say it was a _good_ metaphor...


> , then don't try and pretend it makes any sense.



This is SF we're talking about, right? A lot of SF proudly features lengthy, elaborate explanations of technologies that are way cool (like powered armor, cyborg assasins and forcefield encased space battlehsips) and don't make a lick of sense, except as dramatiztions of adolescent male techno-power fantasies (and to any SF authors reading this: please keep them coming). 

Part of the joy of SF (for me) is in its frequent, passionate application of logic to the illogical.


----------



## Rackhir (Feb 3, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> Yes, it does. Or least its changes the criteria by which you judge something. You ask "How apt is this"? Or "How subtle"? You're asking too much to require a metaphor (particular in a fabulist work) to make literal/logical sense.
> 
> Should a viewer get caught up in the biological plausbility of giant space seed pods (capable of perfectly duplicating human beings), or just accept the conceit in Invasion of the Body Snatchers?
> 
> ...




I think you are misunderstanding the role of such "story elements". They are essentially like spices, they give a story it's flavor and feel. So you forgive and suspend disbelief, with regards to such things. 

The story however is the meat of the matter and if it's rotten, there better be some dammed good spices if you want to cover up the awfulness of the meal. I'm not objecting to there being AI's, you don't have a story without the AI's.  I'm objecting to the stupid way that they have used them in the story. 

There was absolutely no reason given WHY these disposable robots were given sentience. Their AI seemed to be there solely for the purpose of enabling them to suffer, so that there would be a "Slave" metaphor going on with regards to how they were treated. Many sceens were there for the sole purpose of showing how "Human" the AI's were. A prime example of this was when they were being used to construct a pyramid in exactly the same fashion that we've seen in every Moses epic ever filmed. That's stupid, disposable slaves or not, you'd be using large powered machinery because it does that sort of work much more quickly and efficiently. 

So if there is no logical reason for doing things that way, there must be some emotional purpose then. They could have for example said that they were given sentience precisely for the purpose of making them suffer, because with suffering among mankind having been wiped out there was some dark need being left unfulfiled in mankind's psychie, with regards to inflicting pain. So that while making humans suffer was "intolerable", AI's weren't regarded as having "real sentience". That is at least a REASON why they were given sentience and that would still worked with regards to their "metaphor". 

What they did was simply bad writing and bad storytelling. No amount of metaphor, especially if you are trying to pretend the story makes some kind of sense can justify that. Trying to make a point, never justifies bad writing. If you simply want to make ham handed moral points then write satire.


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## Tyler Do'Urden (Feb 3, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> I found them neither entertaining as pure action flicks (because most of the action was just ridiculously stupid (with few exceptions mostly from 2)) and I neither liked what they turned the story into.
> 
> I think it was exactly the philosophy part that ruined them completely.




Except it was the "philosophy part" that was the entire point of the movies... and if you didn't get it, that's not the fault of the directors.  I got it.

Then again, as one of my friends told me, "you're a goth, libertarian, extropian political philosophy student who is into martial arts, the occult, and DJing techno music... the Matrix trilogy was practically written FOR YOU..."  So yeah, of course I'd defend it tooth and nail...


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## Mallus (Feb 3, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> I think you are misunderstanding the role of such "story elements". They are essentially like spices, they give a story it's flavor and feel.






> The story however is the meat of the matter and if it's rotten




No, its just that I don't automatically assume "story" has primacy; maybe theme, motif, characterization, or even mood does. I let the work in question tell me what's most important. Whole genres of film don't hold story central; film noir (even it the best of them, their plots are hash, its a practically a genre convention), Italian horror (look at Dario Argento, he puts lurid lighting and set design ahead of story) etc. 

You might not not like films like that, but you really can't say story is always 'the meat of the matter'.


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## Rackhir (Feb 3, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> No, its just that I don't automatically assume "story" has primacy; maybe theme, motif, characterization, or even mood does. I let the work in question tell me what's most important. Whole genres of film don't hold story central; film noir (even it the best of them, their plots are hash, its a practically a genre convention), Italian horror (look at Dario Argento, he puts lurid lighting and set design ahead of story) etc.
> 
> You might not not like films like that, but you really can't say story is always 'the meat of the matter'.




Actually, I like film noir and Dario Argento movies very much. Of course some are better than others because of the plots...

Pratically everything you mention above are stylistic elements "Spices". While some Film Noir, may have lousy plots I doubt those are considered among the classics of the genre. There's certainly nothing wrong with the plot of the "Maltese Falcon" or "Double Indemnity" Unless you are talking about something that is simply intended as a mood piece like perhaps "Clouds" from the anime "Robot Carnival", movies are telling a story. Without a good story, you don't have a good movie. You might really enjoy some of the "spices" but it doesn't make up for the rot at the core. I'll conceed this much, you can still ruin a good story with lousy "Spices".


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## Felix (Feb 3, 2005)

> Rackhir v Mallus




I'd like to chime in that while they have great special effects and push the envelope of computer animation, PIXAR studios has not made 6 great movies only because of that. Each of those movies have had solid, simple, endearing stories to clothe in special effects.

LOTR did the same; the story was there, and it was well executed.

Troy had an epic story (how long has that poem been around) and yet it felt hacked, rushed, and Hollywoodized. That's what production quality can do to a good plot.

But when you have a huge hole in the story that isn't explained, then the point the metaphor is trying to make is weakened. Just as in a symbolic logic mapping of an argument, if the premisies are weak or flawed, then the conclusion will be as well. That's the problem with robot sentience in the Matrix sequels.

I, Robot did robot sentience better; there was a progression of thought in the mainframe AI that led it to the decision to take over the world, and I think that's what Rackhir wants from the Matrix stuff. Humans won't give away sentience on purpose, at least not without building failsafes.

And speaking of sentience/robot control/failsafes... can you say that for as technologically proficient as the humans were in the Matrix world they couldn't figure out how to create Blade Runner-esque replicants that weren't even aware of themselves as non-human?


This is turning into something like a rant...


And so EMPs are used safely on the ships. Well done. That's one of the reasons the first Matrix was such a hit... it was "*our only weapon against the machines*". And as soon as the machines show up at Zion they start throwing small bits of metal at them very quickly?

And then there's Neo. He can stop a sentinel in the real world. How? Because he has a connection to the source. Wait, what? Say that again. "A connection to the source." WTF, mate? What the hell is _that_ supposed to mean? Sorry, no time now, the conversation on screen has moved to some other topic. GAH! WORST HANDWAVING EVER. I mean it could have been so cool if there were some kind of *reason* that made sense for Neo's _Shocking Grasp_ abilities. Something! But _a connection to the friggin SOURCE_???

And then all of a sudden, he's King Arthur. Bwa? Yeah, a King Arthur that _*completely failed* to rescue all of those folks that are currently serving as Double-A batteries!_ Actually didn't Agent Smith pretty much wipe out humanity when he took over the matrix, and then Neo killed him by letting the squiddyfather kill him? Ok, great... no batteries for the robots. Good, they die. They seem to be pretty happy about it. And so what are we left with? A bunch of humans in a cave that look like extras from the Smells Like Teen Spirit video who can't figure out how to build a proper loom, and who can't put together the simple fact that small bits of metal arn't going to help all that much against the Horde of Metal coming at them.

Oh yeah, and remember that cute little Indian girl from the subway? Yeah, she's friggin Helios or something. So had she not been doing her job all along when she was elsewhere with her folks? Or is she just getting started at her new job? Gah! It's just so fraggin dripping with _meaning_! Can't you see??? Because of Neo she was able to _make the sun rise like it's been doing for the last dozen centuries_...

Bad, bad, bad, bad. I don't care how apt, applicable, powerful, pregnant with meaning, or signifigant your metaphor is if you place it in a world that _makes no sense_. Our world can be made sense of. _That_ one cannot, and so the metaphor loses any credibility it once had. Yeech. There are no Matrix sequels.

Breath

Breath

... Sigh ...


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## Rackhir (Feb 3, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> But when you have a huge hole in the story that isn't explained, then the point the metaphor is trying to make is weakened. Just as in a symbolic logic mapping of an argument, if the premisies are weak or flawed, then the conclusion will be as well. That's the problem with robot sentience in the Matrix sequels.
> 
> I, Robot did robot sentience better; there was a progression of thought in the mainframe AI that led it to the decision to take over the world, and I think that's what Rackhir wants from the Matrix stuff. Humans won't give away sentience on purpose, at least not without building failsafes.




Good way of putting it.



			
				Felix said:
			
		

> There are no Matrix sequels.




You can not enjoy the matrix sequels, because that is impossible. To enjoy the Matrix Sequels you must first realize that there are no Matrix Sequels.


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## Tyler Do'Urden (Feb 4, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> (load of )




I could refute you point by point, but it's already been done far better by greater minds.  Watch the sequels with the Wilber/West commentary, it will make much more sense.  Oh, and by the way, to call them sequels is inaccurate- they're an integral part of a single script that the Wachowskis divided up- they wrote the whole thing in 1996... so they weren't just tacked on...


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## ssampier (Feb 4, 2005)

I must suck, but I like a lot of movies that people say are the worst:

Hollow Man
Willow

*Middle of the Pack - not good, but not the worse*

Blair Witch 2
I, Robot
Wing Commander


*Stinkers, bottom of the barrel*

Avengers
The Blair Witch Project
Dungeons & Dragons
Mortal Kombat (2? they all seem the same to me)
The Post Man
Speed and Speed 2:Cruise Control
Water World
Wild Wild West
any movie with Steven Seagal

_I'm just glad that I didn't waste my time or brain-cells on Gili or From Justin to Kelly_


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## Mallus (Feb 4, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> Just as in a symbolic logic mapping of an argument, if the premisies are weak or flawed, then the conclusion will be as well. That's the problem with robot sentience in the Matrix sequels.



Maybe this hijackish stuff about robot sentience and the nature of story belong in a new thread, but I gotta disagree with the above.

Metaphors don't have premises and they don't operate like logical arguments. They don't _prove_ anything.


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## drnuncheon (Feb 4, 2005)

Getting back to the original topic:

"Invincible", starring Billy Zane as a bald fallen angel who suffers a change of heart and trains a group of four walking cliches from all walks of life to be mystical warriors, so they can stand around and watch as he defeats the main bad guy.  There is a particularly inexplicable scene where Zane discusses philosophy while riding a bike.  

In a fountain.

Mel Gibson and Jet Li should be embarassed to have their names associated with this.

J


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## Felix (Feb 4, 2005)

Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> I could refute you point by point, but it's already been done far better by greater minds.



Don't sell yourself short, man! Give 'er a try!



			
				Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> Watch the sequels with the Wilber/West commentary, it will make much more sense.



Fair enough.



			
				Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> Oh, and by the way, to call them sequels is inaccurate- they're an integral part of a single script that the Wachowskis divided up- they wrote the whole thing in 1996... so they weren't just tacked on...



Thbbbbt. So were Empire and Jedi, and they're still sequels. Not that I said they were tacked-on, just that they weren't any good. If I did, then I misspoke.

Oh, and it might have been a load, but my post lacks a string of smiley-faces. 



			
				Mallus said:
			
		

> Maybe this hijackish stuff about robot sentience and the nature of story belong in a new thread...



I agree.

See you there.


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## D+1 (Feb 4, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> I was forgetting one:
> 
> Wild Wild West.
> 
> Not even Salma Hayek's butt saved this one...



WHAT?  Selma Hayek's butt can save anything - although it had a very difficult time saving Once Upon A Time In Mexico, which if not for the 60 seconds of Selma screentime would have been an absolute waste.


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## shady (Feb 5, 2005)

Worst movie I've ever seen in a cinema - Santa Claus with Dudley Moore. Followed closely by Dudley Moore in Arthur (nominated for screenwriting Oscars, just to show you what an oscar is worth). I have a policy these days - the Moore rule - that after 2 spectacular strikes I actively avoid a particular actor. Chevy Chase and Dan Ackroyd, come on down.

Worst movie I've seen recently on DVD. Dreamcatcher. And I've seen some bad ones. I am still trying to work out why the villain from another galaxy has an upper class English accent, apparently it isn't in the book. And, still reeling from the incredibly dumb ending, I looked at the DVD's alternative ending. It's dumber.

The only good thing about it is an interview with Stephen King. It starts with a caption "Stephen King has just sat through the Dreamcatcher movie for the first time". Momentarily, he sits slack-jawed, like the audience in the Producers trying to make sense of Springtime for Hitler. 

I tend to buy DVDs to watch on my laptop on long plane rides. In this case I sat thinking that a porno DVD would have been a less embarassing purchase.


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## Thanee (Feb 5, 2005)

Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> Except it was the "philosophy part" that was the entire point of the movies, and if you...




...didn't like it... 



> ..., that's not the fault of the directors.




Of course it's the fault of the directors, who else's fault could it possibly be!?

They made this piece of junk to deliver their philosophical message that no one (well, except you, and maybe a few others ) wants to hear. 

I wanted to see the story continue not see them throw the whole story away for their oh so interesting philosophical and metaphorical blabber.

And even if so... they could at least have made the rest somewhat reasonable and logical and not just as stupid as it was.

Altho, that wouldn't really have helped either... they ruined it from the start.

Tragedy!

Bye
Thanee


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## Tyler Do'Urden (Feb 5, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> ...didn't like it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just because you didn't understand it doesn't make it their fault, it makes it your fault for not understanding it.  You might not understand Hegel either- that's not Hegel's fault, that's yours.  And if you understood the references and what they were getting at, it was reasonable and logical, and anything but stupid.  They didn't ruin it from the start- you're just too ignorant to get it.


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## Thanee (Feb 5, 2005)

Well, if you don't get it... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Harold as a Verb (Feb 8, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Possibly... The movie poster had this young girl (the one who doesn't speak), holding an adult-sized shepherd's staff, with a blue hood pulled tightly over her face. I thought "Hey, maybe it's like Dragonslayer"!
> 
> First time I ever fast-forwarded through a movie. I stopped only when there were dialogs, and after 20 minutes I was done...




Vigil?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088355/

(It was a New Zealand movie.)


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## Captain Howdy (Feb 8, 2005)

Narfellus said:
			
		

> Howdy, I have to agree with others that i did not by any stretch like or enjoy Lost Highway. Was it BAD? Bad as in incomprehensible...yes. If i watch a movie for 2 hours i want to understand what happened. Could you PLEASE shed some light in your opinion as to what that movie was about if you know?




Sorry, haven't checked the thread in a while.

I think what confuses most people is the _structure_ of the movie, not what it's about. Do you know what a Moebius Strip is? I believe it is used in advanced math for something, not sure, but what it looks like is what's important. It is a ring with two surfaces that kind of wrap around each other. I attached a picture for some reference. 
But anyway, the structure of the movie is similar. Think of the plot to a normal movie as a flat strip of paper, and the plot of Lost Highway as a Moebius Strip. A lot of movies have circular plots (where you end up right back at the beginning), but Lost Highway is different because there are elements of the movie that overlap each other. The movie is confusing because you can only view it from one side. If you watch the movie again, keep the Moebius Strip in mind. Watch for little clues, as well as major plot twists (the motel scene is where the movie takes a big turn). It's hard to explain.  
Keep in mind that the whole Moebius Strip theory is only one explanation (I happen to think it's the best one), and though David Lynch never really gives away what his movies are about, he pretty much agreed that the Moebius Strip idea is accurate.
As for what the movie is actually _about _, your guess is as good as mine. You just have to figure that out on your own. But at least when you watch the movie again, you will be way less confused because the structure will make sense, and the movie will be easy to follow.

BTW, I have never understood a David Lynch movie the first time through. You really should give it a second chance.


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## Storm Raven (Feb 8, 2005)

Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> Just because you didn't understand it doesn't make it their fault, it makes it your fault for not understanding it.  You might not understand Hegel either- that's not Hegel's fault, that's yours.  And if you understood the references and what they were getting at, it was reasonable and logical, and anything but stupid.  They didn't ruin it from the start- you're just too ignorant to get it.




Umm, no. I don't think he didn't understand it. I think he (and many others like me) understood it just fine. We just thought the philosophy espoused was dull and uninteresting, and the presentation of it was childish and uninspired.


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