# The new Bats v Supes trailer looks AWESOME!



## Morrus (Jul 11, 2015)

This even outranks Star Wars for me in "films I desperately want to see".  And I really want to see Star Wars.  I love the themes they're exploring with the DC universe.

[video=youtube;0WWzgGyAH6Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WWzgGyAH6Y&feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## Raunalyn (Jul 12, 2015)

*New Batman vs. Superman Trailer*

My first thought when I saw the original trailer for this movie was a big "meh."

After seeing this one however, I have to admit to some actual interest. Not sure about Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor, though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WWzgGyAH6Y


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## MechaPilot (Jul 12, 2015)

I'm very excited for this movie, and I have been since I heard it was being made.  I thought the first trailer was great for what it was (remember that it was a teaser trailer and not a full trailer), and I think this one is excellent.

One particular spot of interest to me is how well the Wonder Woman character is handled.  Black Widow is cool, but she's really been the only strong, serious, and sexy female hero in the current generation of superhero movies.

The Robin outfit also makes me hopeful that we might actually see some of the bat-family in the DC Cinematic Universe (DCCU).


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## Kramodlog (Jul 12, 2015)

Trailer looks good.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 12, 2015)

I love this trailer.

Afleck appears to really nail the role (though nothing is certain without seeing the finished product).  Eisenberg's Luthor, while not having the obvious evil businessman motif that I enjoyed from the Superman animated series, seems like a great evil instigator.

I also love the part where Wonder Woman shows up.  Wonder Woman is one of the most iconic superheroines and, despite the bondage theme that shows up in her comics, I always looked up to.  She hits all of the adjectives that I look for in a superheroine: smart, capable, serious, strong, and sexy.

It was also nice to see the spray-painted Robin suit, hinting that Leto's Joker has killed a Robin, or that perhaps the Red Hood storyline is part of the cinematic universe.  I also like it because it shows, even if for a moment, the presence of a bat family (even if it was limited to just Batman and Robin), and I'd love to see a serious Batgirl or Batwoman in the new DC cinematic universe.

I also noticed what looked like a parallel between Batman fighting the Superman soldiers and Batman going after the Mutants in the animated version of the Dark Knight Returns.

There is one thing that sort of got me about the trailer though: I heard someone refer to the actor who plays Thomas Wayne as Jeffrey Dean Morgan, but he looks a lot like Nicholas Cage in that flashback (or maybe that's just me).


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## Morrus (Jul 12, 2015)

This is part of the Comic Con panel for those after some more detail.

[video=youtube;pXP-uvc7DZs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP-uvc7DZs&feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## MechaPilot (Jul 13, 2015)

Okay, tell me I'm not crazy.

I see a lot of commentors saying that the "you let your family die" note is from the Joker.  But, that would mean the Joker knows who Batman is.  Why is everyone assuming the Joker knows who Batman really is?


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## Rune (Jul 13, 2015)

I think "family" means "Robin," in this context.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 13, 2015)

Rune said:


> I think "family" means "Robin," in this context.




Then who sent the letter?  And why does it show the recent event of Wayne's building falling?

To me, it makes much more sense for it to be a grief-addled relative of someone who died when the building fell.


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## Umbran (Jul 13, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> Black Widow is cool, but she's really been the only strong, serious, and sexy female hero in the current generation of superhero movies.




She's the only strong, serious, female hero in the current generation of superhero movies.

We'd have more of them, if we men stopped requiring them all be, "sexy".


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## Morrus (Jul 13, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> Then who sent the letter?  And why does it show the recent event of Wayne's building falling?
> 
> To me, it makes much more sense for it to be a grief-addled relative of someone who died when the building fell.




No, it's Robin. They also show Robin's costume defaced by the Joker. In the comics, the Joker kills (one of) the Robins.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 13, 2015)

Umbran said:


> She's the only strong, serious, female hero in the current generation of superhero movies.
> 
> We'd have more of them, if we men stopped requiring them all be, "sexy".



What's the line...they are drawn that way.


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## Umbran (Jul 13, 2015)

Hand of Evil said:


> What's the line...they are drawn that way.




They have been in the past, yes.  That's a hurdle we ought to be working harder to overcome.

Ms. Marvel (Kamala Kahn) is not currently drawn for sex appeal, and is arguably the best female character in major comics today.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 13, 2015)

Oh, as a thread hijack  http://www.cgsociety.org/news/article/729/the-death-of-superman-lives


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## MechaPilot (Jul 13, 2015)

Umbran said:


> She's the only strong, serious, female hero in the current generation of superhero movies.
> 
> We'd have more of them, if we men stopped requiring them all be, "sexy".




As a woman, I like my heroines to be sexy.  I'm not saying that they all have to be sexy, but sexiness is part of the idealized, wish-fulfillment aspect of a superheroine to me.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 13, 2015)

Morrus said:


> No, it's Robin. They also show Robin's costume defaced by the Joker. In the comics, the Joker kills (one of) the Robins.




I am, vaguely, familiar with the Death in the Family and Under the Red Hood stories, so I get the background that you're talking about.  However, I don't think it's Robin.  My understanding is that Robin was pissed at Bruce for not killing the Joker for what he did to Robin, but I don't think that Robin would blame Bruce for something that was done by aliens of unexpectedly tremendous power.  As far as I know, Robin didn't develop a desire to sadistically hurt Bruce.


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## Morrus (Jul 13, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I am, vaguely, familiar with the Death in the Family and Under the Red Hood stories, so I get the background that you're talking about.  However, I don't think it's Robin.  My understanding is that Robin was pissed at Bruce for not killing the Joker for what he did to Robin, but I don't think that Robin would blame Bruce for something that was done by aliens of unexpectedly tremendous power.  As far as I know, Robin didn't develop a desire to sadistically hurt Bruce.




What?  No!  That's not what I meant at all!  Robin is dead in this continuity; he was killed by the Joker.  The Joker is taunting Batman about it (defacing the Robin costume etc., as we see in the trailer).


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## Umbran (Jul 13, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> As a woman, I like my heroines to be sexy.




That's fine.  I was talking about how men ought to change their attitudes.  I make no assertion about women's attitudes.

However, I would be surprised that if you did some market research, and found the ways to portray a women as sexy to men, and sexy to women, you'd get markedly different portrayals, such that you wanting them to be sexy has a different impact than men wanting them sexy.



> I'm not saying that they all have to be sexy...




I don't have a problem with some of them being sexy.  I think you'll find that, at the moment, they all are.  And we'd get better characters and stories if we didn't focus so much on that aspect.

Heck, they cast Marissa Tomei as *AUNT MAY* - the quintessential comic book "old woman".   There is absolutely nothing wrong with Tomei's acting ability, but your audience isn't supposed to be hoping to see Aunt May in a bikini.


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## Tonguez (Jul 13, 2015)

Umbran said:


> They have been in the past, yes.  That's a hurdle we ought to be working harder to overcome.
> 
> Ms. Marvel (Kamala Kahn) is not currently drawn for sex appeal, and is arguably the best female character in major comics today.




well she's no slouch either, she's no less sexy than Jean Grey or Kitty Pryde have been, even if she explicitly "does not meet white Eurocentric standards of beauty". Besides she can grow any body part at will!



Umbran said:


> Heck, they cast Marissa Tomei as *AUNT MAY* - the quintessential comic book "old woman".   There is absolutely nothing wrong with Tomei's acting ability, but your audience isn't supposed to be hoping to see Aunt May in a bikini.




and Just saying it's not Tomeis fault


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## MechaPilot (Jul 13, 2015)

Morrus said:


> What?  No!  That's not what I meant at all!  Robin is dead in this continuity; he was killed by the Joker.  The Joker is taunting Batman about it (defacing the Robin costume etc., as we see in the trailer).




Okay, then I did misunderstand you a bit.  So, if the Joker is using that letter to taunt Batman, then he apparently knows who Batman is.  That doesn't sound right to me.  I know that identities in comics have been discovered and revealed before, but I don't think that's what DC is going for in their films (although it will be interesting to see how Clark maintains his secret ID without a mask in the forthcoming films).


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## MechaPilot (Jul 13, 2015)

Umbran said:


> That's fine.  I was talking about how men ought to change their attitudes.  I make no assertion about women's attitudes.
> 
> However, I would be surprised that if you did some market research, and found the ways to portray a women as sexy to men, and sexy to women, you'd get markedly different portrayals, such that you wanting them to be sexy has a different impact than men wanting them sexy.




Granted, though I'm certain there's some overlap.





Umbran said:


> I don't have a problem with some of them being sexy.  I think you'll find that, at the moment, they all are.  And we'd get better characters and stories if we didn't focus so much on that aspect.




When it comes to films, I think all superheriones are going to be sexy.  Even the people that are supposedly plain or homely in films are portrayed as being quite good looking compared to normal people.  It's only when ugliness is an inherent aspect of who the heroine is that we will possibly see a not above-average looking heroine on screen.

I do think we'll get better stories if there is less focus on sexiness, but I don't think story suffers if you have a sexy heroine but choose not to focus so much on her sexiness.



Umbran said:


> Heck, they cast Marissa Tomei as *AUNT MAY* - the quintessential comic book "old woman".   There is absolutely nothing wrong with Tomei's acting ability, but your audience isn't supposed to be hoping to see Aunt May in a bikini.




I agree.  Aunt May in a bikini should retain the "Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day" aspect instead aiming for cougar or GMILF direction.


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## Rune (Jul 13, 2015)

Mmmm. Aunt May in a Bikini...





What?


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## Umbran (Jul 13, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> Granted, though I'm certain there's some overlap.




Of course.



> When it comes to films, I think all superheriones are going to be sexy.




There is a difference between "we cast someone who is generally attractive" and "we go out of our way (and thus use storytelling time) to highlight physical attractiveness."  Hawkeye Initiative, and all that.



> I do think we'll get better stories if there is less focus on sexiness, but I don't think story suffers if you have a sexy heroine but choose not to focus so much on her sexiness.




I think we are in agreement on this.


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## Tonguez (Jul 13, 2015)

Rune said:


> Mmmm. Aunt May in a Bikini...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




or there's this




and Tomei is 50, which is a fine age to be the aunt of a teenage Peter Parker. It just so happens that what was Old in 1962 isn't so Old in 2015 - 50 is the new 30 and all that...


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## Staffan (Jul 13, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I agree.  Aunt May in a bikini should retain the "Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day" aspect instead aiming for cougar or GMILF direction.



While I agree that aunt May is not supposed to be a sex symbol, she generally has been portrayed as ridiculously old in the comics.

I mean, Peter is supposed to start his career as a teenager. She is his uncle's wife, and Ben was Richard Parker's big brother. Unless (a) she was significantly older than Ben, (b) Ben was significantly older than Richard, and/or (c) Richard held off having kids to a rather old age, she ought to be around 40-50. Not necessarily a "hot" 50-year-old, but not the octogenarian she's usually portrayed as.I think the age she was portrayed as in the Raimi movies, or in Ultimate Spider-Man, seems about right.

Of course, Peter's grown up since then, but May has remained more-or-less the same age ("ancient").


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## miniaturehoarder (Jul 13, 2015)

Umbran said:


> She's the only strong, serious, female hero in the current generation of superhero movies.
> 
> We'd have more of them, if we men stopped requiring them all be, "sexy".



Listen, some of us just want the characters to look like what we have known them as, not some agenda driving new interpretation of the character. Yes, i expect a live action power girl to be top heavy with a cleavage window, but I'd also pay good money to see a live action version of the DCAU version of Amanda Waller rather than the thinner versions from other comics.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 14, 2015)

miniaturehoarder said:


> Yes, i expect a live action power girl to be top heavy with a cleavage window, but I'd also pay good money to see a live action version of the DCAU version of Amanda Waller rather than the thinner versions from other comics.




About Power Girl's costume, I really wouldn't expect that costume.  Now that has nothing to do with any kind of "agenda;" recall that I have said, as a woman, sexy heroines are part of the wish fulfillment aspect of superheros to me.  I am merely pointing out that costumes change, and that what is traditional in costume is sometimes laughable; as seen by the yellow spandex comment thrown at Wolverine in the first X-men movie.

About Amanda Waller, I think she'll probably end up thinner than the proportions in your picture because of the "hollywood homely" concept I alluded to earlier.  I also think she'll end up thinner because fat people in films are generally associated with comedy instead of the authority that Waller projects.  When you ask people about overweight actors and actresses, they're probably going to mention John Belushi, Chris Farley, John Candy, Melissa McCarthy, and the big girl from Hairspray (whose name escapes me right now).  And, in fact, if you look at the actress who plays Waller in next year's Suicide Squad film, Viola Davis, at the comic con panel she appears thinner than the picture you posted.


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## miniaturehoarder (Jul 14, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> And, in fact, if you look at the actress who plays Waller in next year's Suicide Squad film, Viola Davis, at the comic con panel she appears thinner than the picture you posted.



[video=youtube;PLLQK9la6Go]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLLQK9la6Go[/video]


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## MechaPilot (Jul 14, 2015)

miniaturehoarder said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLLQK9la6Go




I know.  It looks amazing.  I am loving Leto's Joker.  I'm also finding the change in Harley's origin interesting too.  It looks like she is basically captured during a riot at Arkham and then tortured by the Joker instead of simply being suckered into liking him as she was in the animated series.


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## Umbran (Jul 14, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> About Amanda Waller, I think she'll probably end up thinner than the proportions in your picture because of the "hollywood homely" concept I alluded to earlier.  I also think she'll end up thinner because fat people in films are generally associated with comedy instead of the authority that Waller projects.




Actresses who can do it exist.  Patricia Belcher, from "Bones", for example.  She's probably a touch too old, but the ability to project authority is definitely there.


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## Legatus Legionis (Jul 14, 2015)

.


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## Morrus (Jul 14, 2015)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> It is nice to see more of the story/plot being revealed, and the beginning of the history between Superman/Clark Kent and Batman/Bruce Wayne.
> 
> They have not yet shown how Wonder Woman/Diana Prince fits in.  Guess that will be in a later trailer/teaser.




They've shown enough for me.  I want to actually enjoy the movie, not watch it all in trailers!


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## Raunalyn (Jul 14, 2015)

Morrus said:


> They've shown enough for me.  I want to actually enjoy the movie, not watch it all in trailers!




This!


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## MechaPilot (Jul 14, 2015)

Morrus said:


> They've shown enough for me.  I want to actually enjoy the movie, not watch it all in trailers!




I agree with this as well.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 14, 2015)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> It is nice to see more of the story/plot being revealed, and the beginning of the history between Superman/Clark Kent and Batman/Bruce Wayne.
> 
> They have not yet shown how Wonder Woman/Diana Prince fits in.  Guess that will be in a later trailer/teaser.




They have said that Wonder Woman will be the connection between Batman ans Superman and the Justice League.  I'm not sure how, but there are plenty of possibilities.




Legatus_Legionis said:


> I am just afraid that unlike Marvel's ultimate plan (with its phase 1, 2, 3), that DC at this stage has not shown it has a "big plan" for its movies/universe.
> 
> A planned Justice League movie(s) to spawn several stand alone movies.  That's it?




Well, DC is just getting their cinematic universe started.  I don't think Marvel had an ultimate plan beyond "stand alone movies to spawn avengers film" when they started with the first Iron Man film.




Legatus_Legionis said:


> In the DC Comics, they made one of Batman's best/worst secrets from the Bat-Family is that the Joker knew along time ago whom Batman was, and had even gotten into the Batcave way back when.
> 
> And that the Joker "did not care" whom Batman was when not as Batman.  The Joker was only interested in besting BATMAN.




Interesting.  I didn't know that.


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## trappedslider (Jul 14, 2015)

Umbran said:


> Actresses who can do it exist.  Patricia Belcher, from "Bones", for example.  She's probably a touch too old, but the ability to project authority is definitely there.




CCH Pounder did it too see her on Warehouse 13.


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## delericho (Aug 4, 2015)

trappedslider said:


> CCH Pounder did it too see her on Warehouse 13.




Also, not entirely coincidentally, the voice of Amanda Waller in those animated series.


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## trappedslider (Aug 4, 2015)

delericho said:


> Also, not entirely coincidentally, the voice of Amanda Waller in those animated series.




And the animated movies in which she appears not counting the recent Gods and Monsters


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Aug 14, 2015)

So... Doomsday seems to be in Batman VS Superman.


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## MechaPilot (Aug 14, 2015)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> So... Doomsday seems to be in Batman VS Superman.




It's possible.  People have been speculating for a while that Lex creates Doomsday from Zod's DNA.

Personally, I would rather they wait on introducing Doomsday.  However, if they don't plan on going with the Doomsday kills Superman plotline, then I could see it working (though I can also see a fair amount of comic fan rage for making that change as well).


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Aug 15, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> It's possible.  People have been speculating for a while that Lex creates Doomsday from Zod's DNA.



That's what I figured they'd do. I hope they don't go that route. Doomsday already has a weak origin story. This is just going to be a really lazy way of cramming Doomsday into the DC movie universe. It doesn't give me much confidence that Superman VS Batman, or any of the movies they're planning, would be good. 



> Personally, I would rather they wait on introducing Doomsday.



So would I.   







> However, if they don't plan on going with the Doomsday kills Superman plotline, then I could see it working (though I can also see a fair amount of comic fan rage for making that change as well).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MechaPilot (Aug 15, 2015)

The other reason I don't want Doomsday yet is because it doesn't make sense.  Genetics is tricky.  Alien genetics is probably moreso.  Even Lex would likely make serious mistakes the first time.  To me, Bizarro being a failed attempt to clone Zod would make a better start than going right to Doomsday.

If Doomsday is in the film, I want to see him in an artificial womb at LexCorp and not in action.  That said, I have no real attachment to the Doomsday villain.  If they want to use him as a throwaway villain just to get the Justice League together, he is powerful enough to warrant a team-up (especially if no one is going to die in defeating/killing him).

I am curious about the Aquaman and Cyborg appearances in the film though.  So far, the only thing we've seen that could hint at Aquaman is a child diving underwater for something.  The oceans probably took a real pounding from the world engine in MoS.  I could see Aquaman coming to the surface pissed off about the attack on his domain.  It might be interesting if Aquaman was the one fighting Wonder Woman in the trailer.

However, nothing so far (in the trailer or in other news) hints at Aquaman having much of a role in the film.  Meanwhile, Wonder Woman has been described as having a small but pivotal role in connecting Batman and Superman with the Justice League.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Aug 15, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> The other reason I don't want Doomsday yet is because it doesn't make sense.  Genetics is tricky.  Alien genetics is probably moreso.  Even Lex would likely make serious mistakes the first time.  To me, Bizarro being a failed attempt to clone Zod would make a better start than going right to Doomsday.








> If Doomsday is in the film, I want to see him in an artificial womb at LexCorp and not in action.  That said, I have no real attachment to the Doomsday villain.  If they want to use him as a throwaway villain just to get the Justice League together, he is powerful enough to warrant a team-up (especially if no one is going to die in defeating/killing him).



To be honest, I'd rather not see him in this or any other film. He was a cheap trick to get people to pay attention to Superman comics when Supe's popularity had dropped significantly. 



> I am curious about the Aquaman and Cyborg appearances in the film though.  So far, the only thing we've seen that could hint at Aquaman is a child diving underwater for something.  The oceans probably took a real pounding from the world engine in MoS.  I could see Aquaman coming to the surface pissed off about the attack on his domain.  It might be interesting if Aquaman was the one fighting Wonder Woman in the trailer.



If it was Aquaman she is fighting, _that_ would be interesting.



> However, nothing so far (in the trailer or in other news) hints at Aquaman having much of a role in the film.  Meanwhile, Wonder Woman has been described as having a small but pivotal role in connecting Batman and Superman with the Justice League.



If I remember correctly, there was an article where they mentioned that Aquaman's role was minimal. I think you see him in the background while Bruce Wayne is buying an ice-cream cone or something.

Seriously though, I'm also curious what they've planned for Aquaman and Wonder Woman.


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## The Yellow Pill (Sep 21, 2015)

So first Michael Shannon says he was filmed with flipper hands, suggesting it was mo-cop for something like Doomsday. Then he says that was a total joke and he's just "a ghost." 

The more interesting possibility is that Luthor successfully initiates a Zod hologram like Jor-El in MoS and interrogates him, giving him access to all kinds of info, including ways to get around the genetic engineering problem MechaPilot mentioned.


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## Legatus Legionis (Sep 21, 2015)

.


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## The Yellow Pill (Sep 22, 2015)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> I do hope it is a BIZARRO and not a DOOMSDAY.
> 
> So then Lex's quotes of "the red cape(S) are coming"... meaning more than one red cape... a Superman and a Bizarro!



I think he might be referring to those armed soldiers with the "S" arm patches.


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## MechaPilot (Sep 23, 2015)

Regrettably, I think Doomsday is going to be in BvS.  I think Shannon's first comments were accurate (even if his "flipper" description of the prosthetic was not) and that his second comments are backpedaling.


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## Kramodlog (Jan 14, 2016)

New clip of Bats v Sups. More context around Bat's question about Sups' cycle. 

Sorry you have to see Conan to watch the clip. 

http://teamcoco.com/video/zack-snyder-superman-clip


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## Tonguez (Jan 14, 2016)

goldomark said:


> New clip of Bats v Sups. More context around Bat's question about Sups' cycle.
> 
> Sorry you have to see Conan to watch the clip.
> 
> http://teamcoco.com/video/zack-snyder-superman-clip




meh, since the reveal that they would be doing a buddy up against Doomatello I've had pretty much no interest in seeing this movie and the clip here just makes me sad. They had so much potential to work with and instead resorted to cheap tricks in order to gain ground against Marvel.

They should have maintain the grim Supes vs Bats vibe and then had Aquaman declaring war against the Air breathers not thrown everything out the window for a bit of spectacle


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## Ryujin (Jan 14, 2016)

You never know; they could make it interesting by having Doomsday kill Supes. (... and then break death in the movies the same way that they did in the comics, for sequels)


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## Morrus (Jan 14, 2016)

Tonguez said:


> meh, since the reveal that they would be doing a buddy up against Doomatello I've had pretty much no interest in seeing this movie and the clip here just makes me sad. They had so much potential to work with and instead resorted to cheap tricks in order to gain ground against Marvel.
> 
> They should have maintain the grim Supes vs Bats vibe and then had Aquaman declaring war against the Air breathers not thrown everything out the window for a bit of spectacle




I think it looks great.


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## MechaPilot (Jan 14, 2016)

Morrus said:


> I think it looks great.




So do I.

Also, I honestly don't get the hate for the second full trailer.  I know people don't care for Eisenberg's Lex as seen in the trailers (although I think most of what we've seen from him is a public face that he puts on to seem less threatening), but I just don't get the other complaints.

We all knew from the title of the film, and from the long-standing friendship/partnership between the characters (and from the film synopsis), that they were going to end up teaming up in the end.  Plus, the trinity shot doesn't tell us what the nature of the team-up is.  Have Bats and Supes completely kissed and made up?  Is it a terse alliance against a greater foe, with Wonder Woman keeping Bats and Supes egos in check?  Or is it something else?

Furthermore, using Doomsday now doesn't preclude using him again later, or using the death of Superman storyline, since Doomsday's entire schtick is that he comes back from the dead stronger than before (plus, I think the CGI on Doomsday looks no worse than what we saw on Ultron, the Hulk or Thanos).


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## Morrus (Jan 14, 2016)

MechaPilot said:


> So do I.
> 
> Also, I honestly don't get the hate for the second full trailer.  I know people don't care for Eisenberg's Lex as seen in the trailers (although I think most of what we've seen from him is a public face that he puts on to seem less threatening), but I just don't get the other complaints.




Doesn't matter. Just enjoy it! No validation required.


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## MechaPilot (Jan 14, 2016)

Tonguez said:


> meh, since the reveal that they would be doing a buddy up against Doomatello I've had pretty much no interest in seeing this movie and the clip here just makes me sad.




Just some serious questions.

Did you really not know the team-up would be coming at some point in this film?  If you didn't realize that right from the beginning, didn't reading the "Dawn of justice" part of the title give you some kind of hint that it was coming?

As far as "Doomatello" goes, can you explain what's actually wrong with the CGI for Doomsday (it looks just as good/bad as the CGI for Ultron, the Hulk and Thanos does).  I've looked up images of the character online, and what I saw in the trailer looks about right.  He's missing the more extremely protruding bone spikes, but the whole Doomsday thing is that he evolves, and it's not unreasonable to think that the bone spikes could develop during the fight.


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## MechaPilot (Jan 14, 2016)

Morrus said:


> Doesn't matter. Just enjoy it! No validation required.




Oh I am definitely enjoying it, and planning on going to enjoy the film as soon as possible.  This may even be the very first film that I see more than once in a theater (usually, if I enjoy a film I just save my money so I can buy it the day it comes out on DVD).  It's just that I don't think I'm so out of touch with other people that I can't understand different points of view, so it sort of aggravates me a bit that I don't get the problems that others have with it.


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## Tonguez (Jan 15, 2016)

Firstly I will declare that I didn't like Superman Returns, I didn't see it until early last year and I thought the Grim Dark approach to Supes and repeating the Zod plot was just a bit naff. So yes I was already a little leery about this film but I was hoping that the Batman side of the story might redeem things.



MechaPilot said:


> Just some serious questions.
> Did you really not know the team-up would be coming at some point in this film?  If you didn't realize that right from the beginning, didn't reading the "Dawn of justice" part of the title give you some kind of hint that it was coming?




of course the team up was going to happen,really the real draw card of the movie for me was the _mystery _ of how they were going to get from the grim dark conflict to compelling the two antagonist to work together. The mystery was exciting and could have got me to the theatre to find out - but the trailer has blown the mystery to shreds and also eliminated any other compulsion that might have existed.
My mention of Aquaman was a reference to Atlantis invading Metropolis in Throne of Atlantis. Not an exact copy of the story but imho an Atlantean invasion could have been used both to create the eminent threat to the heroes and to introduce Aquaman and Wonder Women to the conflict without the  big jump from Superman saying "the Bat is dead" and Bats threatening "_do you bleed? - you will_" to the casualness of Supes asking, "_She with you?_" and Bats quipping, "._I thought she was with you!_" 

that quip was too jarring for me especially on top of the presentation of the Bats in Chains Scene, ADHD Lex and the ease with which he is able to frankenstein Zods DNA into Doomsday. Doomsday is a big gun of the DC universe, dropping him into this movie was unnecessary, cheap and a waste of potential, especially as something has to happen to ensure the heroes stop/beat him.

and where exactly do you go after Doomsday? who is going to be the next viable villain for the Justice League? (Braniac or Darkseid I suppose)

but yes if they do have Doomsday kill Supes or even just pummel him into a coma I will eat my hat and send you all the pictures as an apology



> As far as "Doomatello" goes, can you explain what's actually wrong with the CGI for Doomsday (it looks just as good/bad as the CGI for Ultron, the Hulk and Thanos does).  I've looked up images of the character online, and what I saw in the trailer looks about right..




to be honest for me it is about the lack of bone spikes and significantly the lack of nose. I would have preferred if he had in fact looked more like the Abomination did in The Hulk, this Doomsdays face just lacks character and quite simply looks like a bad rubber suit. 
Sure Thanos might like a bit dumb too but I think that Ultron and the Hulk are pretty good in as much as they are identifiable those characters and able to emote. Of course I don't expect Doomsday to do much emoting but I do want to be able to go "_whoa thats Doomsday laying some awesome smack down on Supes_" without it just being dust clouds and explosions


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## doctorbadwolf (Jan 15, 2016)

IT's always fun to see how differently ppl react to things. 

For me, Lex is one of the only things drawing me to the film. That and the idea of Jason Momoa as Aquaman. 

I didn't like Man of Steel at all, I absolutely frelling despise Miller-esque Batman, so I doubt I'll like this one, and I don't give two rusted pennies about the whole superman vs batman idea. 

But Lex. I'm willing to sit through the rest to see more of the Lex we see in the trailer. 

Also, referring to a character disparagingly as ADHD [name] is a bit ableist. I'm not ADHD Bryce, I'm just Bryce, and it's a disorder with often crippling effects, not a cheap joke.


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## MechaPilot (Jan 15, 2016)

Tonguez said:


> Firstly I will declare that I didn't like Superman Returns, I didn't see it until early last year and I thought the Grim Dark approach to Supes and repeating the Zod plot was just a bit naff. So yes I was already a little leery about this film but I was hoping that the Batman side of the story might redeem things.




Just a minor correction here, but I assume you mean Man of Steel and not Superman Returns.  I thought Superman Returns did a good job of recreating the air of the Richard Donner/Christopher Reeves Superman, but I didn't think it was a very good movie.




Tonguez said:


> of course the team up was going to happen,really the real draw card of the movie for me was the _mystery _ of how they were going to get from the grim dark conflict to compelling the two antagonist to work together. The mystery was exciting and could have got me to the theatre to find out - but the trailer has blown the mystery to shreds and also eliminated any other compulsion that might have existed.
> My mention of Aquaman was a reference to Atlantis invading Metropolis in Throne of Atlantis. Not an exact copy of the story but imho an Atlantean invasion could have been used both to create the eminent threat to the heroes and to introduce Aquaman and Wonder Women to the conflict without the  big jump from Superman saying "the Bat is dead" and Bats threatening "_do you bleed? - you will_" to the casualness of Supes asking, "_She with you?_" and Bats quipping, "._I thought she was with you!_"
> 
> that quip was too jarring for me especially on top of the presentation of the Bats in Chains Scene, ADHD Lex and the ease with which he is able to frankenstein Zods DNA into Doomsday. Doomsday is a big gun of the DC universe, dropping him into this movie was unnecessary, cheap and a waste of potential, especially as something has to happen to ensure the heroes stop/beat him.




I have to say that the trailers have still left me curious about how the team up comes about.  Are they fighting each other right up until Doomsday appears?  I don't think that's so.  If you look over Lex's right shoulder as he creates Doomsday, you can see Superman standing there.  I'm somewhat baffled as to the why of that, but it does appear that Doomsday doesn't simply appear out of nowhere while Bats and Supes are fighting.

There's also the scene from the first trailer where Superman is basically kneeling before Lex, whose hand is bandaged (perhaps with a shard of kryptonite in it).  If Superman is somehow powerless in that moment, it might explain why Supes is simply standing by as Lex creates Doomsday.  It also might mean that Supes may enlist Batman's help to stop Lex.

Also, what role does Wonder Woman play in getting them to set aside their differences and team up?  Does she simply appear out of nowhere and save Batman from Doomsday?  Unlikely.  She is definitely at the party that we see in the beginning of the second trailer.  In the first trailer, where the valet checked out her butt, we can clearly see that's the same party.  Does her presence run through the film like a thread?  Maybe she somehow gives Bruce the nightmare that we see in the desert scene: that scene is a dream or vision, as confirmed by the Knightmare Batman toy, and neither Batman nor Superman could rationally have a nightmare that includes parademons (if that's what those flying creatures really are in that scene) because neither of them knows about Darkseid and his minions while the Amazons might.

Regarding the "I thought she was with you" quip, I think that's something they threw in as an appeal to the more hardcore fans who know of different storylines where Wonder Woman has alternately been romantically involved with Batman or Superman.



I have to admit that I've never seen Throne of Atlantis.  Is that the animated film that takes place in the aftermath of Justice League: War?




Tonguez said:


> and where exactly do you go after Doomsday? who is going to be the next viable villain for the Justice League? (Braniac or Darkseid I suppose)
> 
> but yes if they do have Doomsday kill Supes or even just pummel him into a coma I will eat my hat and send you all the pictures as an apology




Well, let's not be hasty.  After all, what did that hat ever do to you 

As far as where they go for JL villains, I assume that Doomsday will come back even stronger after being killed in this film.  They may even do the Death of Superman storyline at some point (though probably not until they feel they need to shake up the DCCU).  I agree with you that Brainiac and Darkseid are both good villain options for the JL.  They could also go with Bizarro, the Injustice League, or any other villain or group of villains, or villain with macguffin who could stand up to characters on par with Superman.




Tonguez said:


> to be honest for me it is about the lack of bone spikes and significantly the lack of nose. I would have preferred if he had in fact looked more like the Abomination did in The Hulk, this Doomsdays face just lacks character and quite simply looks like a bad rubber suit.
> Sure Thanos might like a bit dumb too but I think that Ultron and the Hulk are pretty good in as much as they are identifiable those characters and able to emote. Of course I don't expect Doomsday to do much emoting but I do want to be able to go "_whoa thats Doomsday laying some awesome smack down on Supes_" without it just being dust clouds and explosions




I agree with you in that I definitely want Doomsday to do more than just dustclouds and explosions.  However, based on what I've read about Doomsday he doesn't really have any other motivations and emotions besides kill and destroy, so I'm not really expecting him to be anything more than a giant ball of muscle, bone blades and rage.

I will also admit that I am assuming that he grows some type of bone blades during the fight in the film.  I don't think that's a leap however, especially given the Michael Shannon story about being unable to open a door because of some type of prosthetic on his hands (he did come out and say that was a lie, but that could just be the studio forcing him to take it back at the risk of violating some kind of NDA).  Those prosthetics could be the start of the bone blades.


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## Tonguez (Jan 15, 2016)

doctorbadwolf said:


> IT's always fun to see how differently ppl react to things.
> 
> For me, Lex is one of the only things drawing me to the film. That and the idea of Jason Momoa as Aquaman.
> 
> ...





oops yes I meant Man of Steel - since Christopher Reeves run I do tend the get confused on the Superman outings

and I apologies for my ADHD comment, I do agree that invoking that as a label was callous and laziness on my part.


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## Kramodlog (Jan 17, 2016)

Ryujin said:


> You never know; they could make it interesting by having Doomsday kill Supes. (... and then break death in the movies the same way that they did in the comics, for sequels)




It looks like a crowded movie and Bats v Sups might not be the focus of the film. What I do not want to see, but the trailer with Doomsday shows, is that they aren't original. With lines like "I thought she was with you" and Bats and Sups teaming up against Doomie, it could have the same problems the Force Awakens had and that is not being innovative.


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## Vagabond234 (Feb 2, 2016)

I'm just waiting to see all the cool tech that Batman is going to use to take out Superman.


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