# Wagon & cart overland speeds



## howandwhy99 (Jun 11, 2006)

What are the rules for improving wagon speeds?  

I didn't get much feedback in the House Rules forum with an option I created.  Here's the link

Is it true that all carts, wagons, sleds, and carriages only move 2 mph or 16 miles / day?  Would an elephant really be slowed if I attached my empty cart behind him?  

While the house rule option above may work, I still think there is something I'm missing.


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Jun 11, 2006)

A horse cannot travel as long with a person on them. They might go as fast (in terms of miles per hour and combat speed), but they get tired more quickly. This is why people used to take multiple horses with them - they would "switch" every once in a while.

A human, wearing light armor or chain mail, does not really encumber a horse in game rules, yet people still used to switch horses. I figure then that a cart might make an elephant tired when pulling it, so it tires out at about 16 miles.

The rules for carts and stuff probably assume you're using horses to pull them. Other animals have differing amounts of endurance and suitability for the task. I'm not sure if an elephant actually has more endurance than a horse, and it's not as suited for the task of pulling carts anyway. Furthermore, elephants need to eat _a lot_. While their metabolism is lower than that of a horse, an elephant still weighs a lot more and must each huge amounts of food. They don't eat grass, either. You're going to have to load that cart down with food, which will make it weigh more and therefore tire the elephant out, at least in the early part of the journey.


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## howandwhy99 (Jun 12, 2006)

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
			
		

> A horse cannot travel as long with a person on them. They might go as fast (in terms of miles per hour and combat speed), but they get tired more quickly. This is why people used to take multiple horses with them - they would "switch" every once in a while.



I guess this would explain the flat rate for all pulled vehicle travel.  But it hurts my PCs who are trying to outrun a bunch of lizards on their tail.

I don't think it really works in combat conditions either.  A horse not yet tired would still bolt and the speed they go is still flat (no matter the animal).  Otherwise running down a wagon is pretty easy.

I've looked at working out carrying/wheeled pulling capacities for creatures, but it gets complicated really quickly.


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## Dross (Jun 13, 2006)

howandwhy99 said:
			
		

> But it hurts my PCs who are trying to outrun a bunch of lizards on their tail.
> 
> I don't think it really works in combat conditions either.  A horse not yet tired would still bolt and the speed they go is still flat (no matter the animal).  Otherwise running down a wagon is pretty easy.




Don't forget making CON checks for continuous activities (which can be running) for those slower trying to keep up with those faster. 3.5 Horses get the Endurance feat, so the PC's may be able to push their horses and outrun the lizards, at least for a while.


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Jun 14, 2006)

Running doesn't work well in DnD 

Why aren't the PCs just killing the lizards?


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## ShadowRaven (Jun 14, 2006)

to increase your wagons speed, the first thing you need to do is atract the attention of a dragon. Once it picks it up and flies of, the cart should do about, oh 20 miles an hour, all the way to said dragons lair. Unfortunatley, the dragon in question is also liable to eat your horse(s) and anyone else that tries to stop it from looting ya


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## howandwhy99 (Jun 14, 2006)

Dross said:
			
		

> Don't forget making CON checks for continuous activities (which can be running) for those slower trying to keep up with those faster. 3.5 Horses get the Endurance feat, so the PC's may be able to push their horses and outrun the lizards, at least for a while.



Yep, all horses get the Run feat and nearly every pack animal has Endurance.  
(Only the Riding Dog doesn't, but they get the Track feat and have scent)



			
				(Psi)SeveredHead said:
			
		

> Why aren't the PCs just killing the lizards?



Well, this is the 2nd session coming up and all the PCs are 1st level.  Age of Worms Spoilers below:
[sblock]There are about 100 lizardfolk minus the 12 they killed last session.  If they choose to start "in the frying pan", they will be defending a tower as they try and distract the lizards from...

... The folk from the hamlet that have a good 7 hour head start on the invading lizard army.  There are about 100 hamletfolk, but they are of all ages and health.  They lead 4 wagons with varying types of pull animals and have a few others mounts currently used for carrying.  The wagons haul everything they could scavenge from their evacuated hamlet.  The PCs may also start here.  If they can't outrun or outwit, this is potentially "into the fire".[/sblock]







> to increase your wagons speed, the first thing you need to do is atract the attention of a dragon. Once it picks it up and flies of, the cart should do about, oh 20 miles an hour, all the way to said dragons lair. Unfortunatley, the dragon in question is also liable to eat your horse(s) and anyone else that tries to stop it from looting ya



[sblock]I'm already 1 step ahead of you.  The players' PCs already met the Large Adult Black Dragon   It's wingspan was as wide as the tower they are defending is tall.  It blew all the doors off the sucker as they shivered in fear in the basement below.  (unluckily the paladin was guarding the front door and dropped in Panic his MW bastard sword.  Now it's goo  )

The fight went well and I gave everyone a lot of tools to work with including many clues.  Unfortunately, few were picked up.  5 of the 11 NPC volunteer guards were killed.  Also 2 PCs (including the Paladin).  The last 2 escaped though injured (one invisible and Disabled) into the hills.  Now they're deciding where to start their new PCs (as the runners stand a poor chance of survival).  Plus we'll likely have all 7 players instead of 4 this time.[/sblock]


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