# New Thread and Forum Icons in Default style



## Michael Morris

Default style now has new thread and forum icons - colorized even - that are unique to ENWorld.  Hit refresh on your browser to pull them up (though your browser will eventually do this anyway).


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## Capellan

Assuming you mean the little globes, they're in Stealth as well.  Was that intentional?  Because they are distinctly non-stealthy


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## Michael Morris

Oh, sorry bout that.  Hmm...  I'll get on it.

Ok, Stealth should be stealthy again, albeit lacking more icons than ever.


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## Hand of Evil

Name font is cool too.


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## Michael Morris

You mean for the mods/admins/techadmins/superadmins?  Russ installed that (I presume - I didn't).


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## Knight Otu

Personally, I don't like those globes.  I'll switch to a different style, I guess.


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## Richards

Ugh - me neither.  How do I go about getting rid of them again?  I'd like to go back to the way things were before the ugly globes showed up.

Johnathan


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## Rodrigo Istalindir

I preferred the old styles as well.  I appreciate the effort to spruce things up, but in this case I don't think it works too well.


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## Michael Morris

As usual, the first comments are the from the naysayers.

PHP, Electric Blue and stealth lack globes (well, stealth lacks everything). That said, I'm not too keen on going back to the vbulletin default icons because, well, they are the default icons and lack a "personal" touch.


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## JoeBlank

I have no problem with the globes, just wanted to note that they are in PHB style too. Don't know if that was intentional.


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## Michael Morris

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> I have no problem with the globes, just wanted to note that they are in PHB style too. Don't know if that was intentional.




It wasn't.  I though I had PHB set to use something else.

Well, tomorrow I'll be taking them out of PHB.  The don't look quite right with all that leather and parchment.


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## Piratecat

We may end up tweaking the colors a bit, but give yourself some time to get used to them. Any change seems strange at first.  

Michael, is it worth noting here which colors signify which conditions? That might help ease the transition.


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## Michael Morris

Piratecat said:
			
		

> We may end up tweaking the colors a bit, but give yourself some time to get used to them. Any change seems strange at first.
> 
> Michael, is it worth noting here which colors signify which conditions? That might help ease the transition.




Yes, the colors are significant.
Grey - No new posts since your last visit
Blue - New posts since your last visit
Purple - Hot thread with no new posts since your last visit
Red - Hot thread with new posts since the last visit
(Hot threads are those with at least 10 different posters)
A red X on any simply means the thread has been closed.
A white square on the lower left side means you have posted to that thread.

The icon key to each thread is found on the bottom of any thread displaying page.

As for the forum icons, blue globes are forums with new posts and grey globes have had no new posts.

This system was coined due to complaints that the old system didn't clearly designate which threads where which.  For instance, with the old icons it was very hard to tell a hot thread from a normal one since everything was grey.

The globes are a reflection of the ENWorld logo after all, and give the site a little personal touch as I mentioned above.

Give it a chance.  After awhile the globes will cease to be noticable and their color will become the important part of them.


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## Piratecat

Thanks, mon. That helps a lot; the Hot Threads icons had me really puzzled.


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## BobROE

I don't really mind the icons themselves but could you maybe make them slightly less garish colours?

Also the little globes for go to newest post, and go to last post don't really make sense from a use standpoint where the little arrows did.

And for the closed thread one, maybe offset the x because right now you can't really tell what's behind it, just looks like the x with a coloured outline.  See the message board pruning thread for example.


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## doghead

I can live with the colors.

*gotta find out how to switch the screen to greytone  * 

But the missing icons from Stealth makes it more difficult to get to the newest post or the last post.


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## Umbran

*Some globes, some not...*

Okay, I'm using the forum default style.  I refreshed, and I can see some globes.  But I also see some envelopes.

It looks like it is still using the envelopes for "Hot thread that you've posted to, with new posts" and "Thread that you've posted to, no new posts" cases.

Edit - also using envelopes for the "locked, non-hot thread that you didn't post to" case.


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## Michael Morris

Umbran said:
			
		

> Okay, I'm using the forum default style.  I refreshed, and I can see some globes.  But I also see some envelopes.
> 
> It looks like it is still using the envelopes for "Hot thread that you've posted to, with new posts" and "Thread that you've posted to, no new posts" cases.
> 
> Edit - also using envelopes for the "locked, non-hot thread that you didn't post to" case.




I noticed that too.  Unless you dump your cache outright you might have to use refresh on several occasions since the all the icons are rarely used on all threads, especially real rare ones like new, locked post.


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## Michael Morris

Ok, a new set of more subdued colors are in, which match the scheme much better than the greens, reds and purples I had going on.  Note that forum icons with new posts remain blue - on those larger globes it works cause water is blue, and remember that the ENWorld logo does have blue in it that isn't echoed elsewhere on the page.


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## RangerWickett

Michael, no offense intended, but I have liked almost none of the new changes.  I prefer an austere beauty, be it in architecture or webpages.  I don't like little pictures that are just tossed in to make things look pretty.  On an art site, yes, art is key, but here, we have mostly text, and things that look cutesy or that require me to download more image files when I try to browse the forums just get on my nerves.

I don't like that you keep adding new features when apparently we're still in need of a new server.  Now, I haven't been experiencing many connection problems myself (EDIT: except for right now), but I don't like seeing more things added that will just cause server strain.  Like when the person last visited, or all these nifty new art pieces, or newfangled hightech dropdown menus.  Can you please just stop trying to fix it?  The original set up was elegant, uncluttered.

I know people have a natural tendency to reject change.  So how about we follow our tendencies for once, and stop spending so much time finagling with something that ain't broke?


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## jezter6

I have to agree with Wickett on this one. I'm still one of the legacy dialup users, and so far all these fancy changes just keep adding code (read: longer to download) to the board software. Not to mention, I really dig the black and grey style, and i think adding pink and yellow and blue to it really is not good colors for a black and grey system. Plus, we all knew what the old icons meant, now i have to re memorize what icons mean no new posts, and stuff, it just doesn't look clean at all.

No offense to anyone in particular, but the board rocked as it was. Nobody seemed to complain that it was lacking anything in particular, so why the change for no reason. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

My DC 2 wealth check.


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## jezter6

Also, the d20 Modern stylesheet is major screwed up. Don't know if it's new and people are working on it or what but i get lots of blank space between threads and categories.

What happened to NORMAL??


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## Michael Morris

FYI Ryan, most of the coding changes I've done in the last month have been with the goal of reducing server load. Unlike your version of the page, I get back a small report on each page load on the time, in milliseconds, it took to compile and send the page. By finding more efficient ways to do things I've shaved off about 3 milliseconds / page load.  I know that doesn't sound like much, but mulitplied over hundreds of page loads / day it is.

As to the icon change, it was a direct response to a complaint filed by MANY people about the inability to tell the difference between the thread icons. For the most part the old ones look a lot alike.  The new ones can be differentiated easily - at a glance you can tell what threads are hot, and which ones are not.

I'm sorry if this upsets you, but I was told once by a very wise member of these boards that it is impossible to keep everyone satisfied all of the time. So in this case I'll press forward with what changes can be done to further reduce server load and to improve the functionality of the site.

And that's what this is to me - a functionality change.  The old icons didn't serve their purpose of alerting folks to the thread statuses.  This, in the default style, is a problem.

Now, if you don't like images that much Ryan, switch to the stealth styleset.  That mode was specifically designed to produce a minimum of images and shouldn't annoy you as much as the default mode apparently now does.


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## Umbran

There is something to be said for having occasional small changes in things like the icon sets.  While familiarity is good, over-familiarity and complacency are not.  I think little tweaks on occasion help us remain alert and attentive, and make the place feel a bit more like a living, organic thing.


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## Piratecat

Very true. We'll keep tweaking, too; we want things to be both functional and pretty, 'cause just pretty doesn't really cut it. If something is neither of those it will probably get looked at. That takes some time and some trial and error, though, so please have patience and keep telling us what you do and don't like.

My thanks to Michael (Spoony Bard), incidentally. Whether you like the new look or not, a tremendous amount of functionality has been added that doesn't increase server load. We're really appreciative of that.


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## BobROE

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> Ok, a new set of more subdued colors are in, which match the scheme much better than the greens, reds and purples I had going on.  Note that forum icons with new posts remain blue - on those larger globes it works cause water is blue, and remember that the ENWorld logo does have blue in it that isn't echoed elsewhere on the page.




It looks alot better now.  I didn't mind the large blue ones, but the pink, red, and purple ones just didn't match anything else on the site.

Still think the x for locked thread should be moved to a corner cause it just looks weird as it is now.  And could the icons for busy threads and the one for thread I've posted in be different (box in different corners perhaps)?


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## Fast Learner

I like the more subdued look, nice work!

One small issue: To me the "new posts" and "no new posts" shades are a bit too close. When they're side-by-side they're very easy to tell apart, but when the pages is full of either one it's kinda hard to tell whether they're all new or all old. Perhaps you could push the "new posts" icon a bit closer to white?


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## jezter6

I'm not against change, don't get me wrong. But those of us that like the default should be able to keep the default. If you want changes, you should have a stylesheet for cool spiffy changes.

Right now, the only options are: spiffy pretty images which hurt my eyes, or stealth, which is absolutely NOTHING. There's no middle ground for normality.

Is it not possible to have the default 'normal' sheet stay the way it is and all the new fancy stuff be in new templates? Default should be that...default. The way it was, and the way it all will be.

But alas, I'm just one person and am forced to deal with all the changes, and nothing I can do can change it. Short of a revolution, we will all be herded along to all the fancy stuff till all the fancy images and rollovers make it a 15 minute load time for those of us on dialup.

Heck, now that the thread icons are changed, lets start making the 'quick reply' button all fancy colors with mouseovers as well. If the original icons weren't good enough, they should all be not good enough. Right?


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## LeapingShark

Other problems:

The white box in the "hot thread" icons is the same as the white box that demarks "you have posted in this thread".  But I have not posted in those threads.   

The "hot thread" icons are bright like the "new post" icon.  This makes it look like those threads have recent posts, even if the thread is so old that it hasn't seen a post in months.


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## Capellan

I don't know if it is a refresh issue, but I still see the globes in Stealth mode, at a forum level eg they appear next to forum names, and on 'go to last post in forum' but not next to thread dname, or 'go to last post in thread'.

As far as navigation goes, it is easy enough to click on the last page (next to the thread name), so I don't think the loss of the icon is an issue.


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## Michael Morris

Ok, they're gone now.


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## cybertalus

My problem with the icons has always been that they are trying to communicate too much information in a single icon.  I may be forgetting something but with a single icon the board is trying to tell us:

If the thread has new messages
If the thread is a "hot" thread
If I've posted to the thread
If the thread is closed
That's a lot of information to cram into a single icon.  It's no wonder really that the icons are hard to understand.

But then that's why I use the PHB style.  That style gives me new threads in bold, and I can generally live without the rest of the information the icons are trying to impart.

As for the new icons themselves, the blue ones on the forums page look VERY nice.  The ones for the threads themselves don't seem any better or any worse than the envelope ones.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari

I think the globes look kinda cool, but I do have one question.  The boxes on most of the globes are exactly the same whether I've posted to it or not.  If I could differentiate a little easier that would be swell, because right now I'm going by name and thread starter instead of a visual icon.


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## Fast Learner

jezter6 said:
			
		

> Short of a revolution, we will all be herded along to all the fancy stuff till all the fancy images and rollovers make it a 15 minute load time for those of us on dialup.



Unless your browser is incapable of caching, the icon changes will make the site load ever-so-slightly-slower once or twice.


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## mmu1

I intensly dislike the new icons - they look fuzzy and garish to me.

That aside, my practical complaint is that I'm absolutely unable to keep track of threads I posted to so far - _everything_ seems to have a little box in the corner... The old envelope with a big black dot in the middle was a lot easier to notice.

Edit: Ok, after multiple refreshes, things do make more sense.

However, there's still a big problem with telling which threads you posted to, because a "new" or "hot" thread icon looks identical regardless of whether your posted to it or not - they alwas have the white box on the bottom.


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## haiiro

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> The white box in the "hot thread" icons is the same as the white box that demarks "you have posted in this thread".  But I have not posted in those threads.




This one has been bugging me all day -- I thought it might just be me.  The nice thing about the "little dot approach" in the old icons was that nothing else about the other icons shared that element -- it was instantly recognizable. On the faster-moving forums (like GD) in particular, I found it to be a very useful tool.

Spoony, I like a lot of the new changes (particularly the 1-shot sigs and collapsible main page menus), and I'm happy to give the new icons a chance.  The white box aspect, though, I think needs to be revisited.


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## Hypersmurf

Yeah - there need to be separate icons for:

Hot thread, no new posts, you have posted
Hot thread, no new posts, you have not posted
Hot thread, new posts, you have posted
Hot thread, new posts, you have not posted

Only threads you've posted to should have the white box.

And I'll echo the confusion about the new posts and no new posts.  Under the envelope system, the colour/no colour immediately distinguished new posts; it was the shape that indicated a hot thread.

Now, we have a no-colour icon indicating new posts, and a coloured icon indicating a hot thread with no new posts... and it's awfully confusing.

Especially since the colours of the new posts and no-new-posts versions are so similar 

Can we have the shades of yellow representing "New Posts" and "Hot, New Posts", with the shades of grey representing "No New Posts" and "Hot, No New Posts" to more closely approximate what people are used to?

(And finally, I agree about the arrows for Go To New Post and Go To Most Recent Post - they work better than the mini-globes.)

-Hyp.


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## Umbran

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Can we have the shades of yellow representing "New Posts" and "Hot, New Posts", with the shades of grey representing "No New Posts" and "Hot, No New Posts" to more closely approximate what people are used to?




There's some sense to that, in more than just what we are used to.  In a mostly grey and black scheme color jumps out at you as something important.  Grey fades, and fails to get attention.  At the moment the "hot thread, no new posts" icon catches the eye more than the "non-hot, but with new posts".  For me, at least, it would make sense to have threads with new posts be more eye-popping than those that don't.


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## Hypersmurf

Umbran said:
			
		

> At the moment the "hot thread, no new posts" icon catches the eye more than the "non-hot, but with new posts".




Yeah, and it's driving me nuts 

-Hyp.


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## Brown Jenkin

OK, I just came back after a couple of days and noticed the changes. I agree the colors need changing. When I saw a page it was alternating yellow and white globes and the first reaction was I haven't read any of these threads why are some marked read and others not. Hypersmurf is right. The colors should represent new stuff and white/grey representing no new stuff. It is confusing and goes against general board logic.


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## Brown Jenkin

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> Other problems:
> 
> The white box in the "hot thread" icons is the same as the white box that demarks "you have posted in this thread".  But I have not posted in those threads.




I must agree with this as well. You have posted to a thread needs to be wholely distinct from anything else.


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## Fajitas

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> As to the icon change, it was a direct response to a complaint filed by MANY people about the inability to tell the difference between the thread icons. For the most part the old ones look a lot alike.  The new ones can be differentiated easily - at a glance you can tell what threads are hot, and which ones are not.




My problem is this: I can tell what's hot and what's not, but I can tell that from the # of replies and the # of views.  What I can't tell is what's new and what's not, and that's what I want to see at a glance.  I don't doubt that this is a functionality change, but frankly, it's focused on the wrong functionalities IMO.


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## grodog

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> By finding more efficient ways to do things I've shaved off about 3 milliseconds / page load.  I know that doesn't sound like much, but mulitplied over hundreds of page loads / day it is.




That sounds great, and a good way to implement incremental improvements!  I had no idea that you guys were that detailed about things (no offense intended)  



> As to the icon change, it was a direct response to a complaint filed by MANY people about the inability to tell the difference between the thread icons. For the most part the old ones look a lot alike.  The new ones can be differentiated easily - at a glance you can tell what threads are hot, and which ones are not.




While that is true (although I didn't have any problems personally telling them apart before), I now find it quite difficult to tell apart the hot topics vs. the one's that I've posted it.  Would there be a way to do something similar to the old bulleted envelope for the "you've posted here" icon, perhaps by modifying the Locked thread bubble?  Or, if you inverted the image so that the "been here" box is on the right vs. the left, that might help, perhaps....



> I'm sorry if this upsets you, but I was told once by a very wise member of these boards that it is impossible to keep everyone satisfied all of the time. So in this case I'll press forward with what changes can be done to further reduce server load and to improve the functionality of the site.
> 
> And that's what this is to me - a functionality change.  The old icons didn't serve their purpose of alerting folks to the thread statuses.  This, in the default style, is a problem.




This is an admirable goal, and well-worth continuing to strive for!  



> Now, if you don't like images that much Ryan, switch to the stealth styleset.  That mode was specifically designed to produce a minimum of images and shouldn't annoy you as much as the default mode apparently now does.




I'm going to continue giving the new style a shot, just thought I should chime in with my reactions/confusions....


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## Olive

mmu1 said:
			
		

> However, there's still a big problem with telling which threads you posted to, because a "new" or "hot" thread icon looks identical regardless of whether your posted to it or not - they alwas have the white box on the bottom.




I don't like the icons much either to be honest, but the inability to tell if I've posted or not is also annoying me. Sorry Spoony.


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## DaveMage

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Yeah - there need to be separate icons for:
> 
> Hot thread, no new posts, you have posted
> Hot thread, no new posts, you have not posted
> Hot thread, new posts, you have posted
> Hot thread, new posts, you have not posted
> 
> Only threads you've posted to should have the white box.
> 
> And I'll echo the confusion about the new posts and no new posts.  Under the envelope system, the colour/no colour immediately distinguished new posts; it was the shape that indicated a hot thread.
> 
> Now, we have a no-colour icon indicating new posts, and a coloured icon indicating a hot thread with no new posts... and it's awfully confusing.
> 
> Especially since the colours of the new posts and no-new-posts versions are so similar
> 
> Can we have the shades of yellow representing "New Posts" and "Hot, New Posts", with the shades of grey representing "No New Posts" and "Hot, No New Posts" to more closely approximate what people are used to?
> 
> (And finally, I agree about the arrows for Go To New Post and Go To Most Recent Post - they work better than the mini-globes.)
> 
> -Hyp.




I agree with all of the above 100%.

I can't figure out what the heck I've posted to and I've refreshed my browser several times.


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## omokage

just to throw my opinion into the mix, I'm finding it harder to differentiate between the different icons than before. There seems to be less variation (what used to be folders and arrows is now all globes) and the icons themselves tell less about what they mean than before. Now I either have to memorize the different icons, or mouse-over to read the description text, there is no intuitive element of those icons.

I wouldn't generally make a mention of it. Everything functions, and I've been able to figure things out again, but this is being advertised as a functional improvement, and I disagree completely. It is less functional than the previous state.


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## Psionicist

Regarding server load, if you remove all the javascripts each and every page will not only be less annoying (javascripts are annoying), they will also be 31 KB lighter. 31 KB is alot, you can write a real time operating system in less.  Think about it, thousands of page loads times those 31 KB...

/clientscript/vbulletin_global.js	17.9 KB
/clientscript/vbulletin_menu.js		13.1 KB

The drop down menus will not work without the javascripts, but that can be solved (lots of other forum software works perfectly okay without dropdown menus).

Oh, and for 56k users, those 31 KB will take 5-10 seconds to download, if they aren't cached.


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## Benben

I hate to be another negative voice.  I've loved all of the other new functionality changes but the new posting icons just aren't working for me.

A tiny globe for "Jump to First Unread Message" is counter-intuitive.  The arrow made complete sense.

It's very difficult to differentiate between the "new posts", and "no new posts" icon.  The color switch is too similar for icons that are fundamental opposites.  And the white box doesn't make any sort of sense, since it covers "New Posts", "No New Posts", "Closed Threads", and "You have Posted in this Thread".  

The blue of the globe might be reflected in the EN World logo but the fade effect used hits shades of blue that clash with the orange text used for links.  I'm finding it especially garish on the front page.

This is really nit picky, but it took me a number of views to realize that I was looking at Africa and not some sort of artistic smear on the icons.  The globe really didn't resize well at all.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian

I have to agree that the inability to tell which threads I have posted in needs to be fixed. This need it's own identifying mark, and if the white box is going to be used elsewhere, make something different for these threads. 

 I don't mind the new globes, but I did find the old icons easier to recognize at a quick glance. Now I need to memorize which colors mean what, and they all seem to have a little white box. The white box thing is bad. 

 Also, maybe the New Post globe can be white or blue? Having both new posts and no new posts both be shades of grey does not work.


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## andargor

I have to say "me three" to the inability to quickly see which threads I've posted in and which threads are new.

My priorities on functionality is:

1) Follow threads I've participated in
2) Look at new threads

Frankly, I couldn't care less about "hot" topics. I look at the subject, and if I'm interested in the content, I go to it. Actually, once about 30 posts or more are made in a thread, I lose interest...

Right now, I'm using Search to find my threads. I'm sure that doesn't help server load...

I echo the suggestion that a style with all the default settings be created for those people that are resistant to change. 

Respectfully,

Andargor


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## Michael Morris

Ok, the system predetermines the name of each icon.  They are, in file name's order







 Thread






 Thread You've posted to






 Hot thread You've Posted to






 Locked Hot thread You've Posted to 






 New locked hot thread you've posted to.






 New hot thread you've posted to.






 Locked thread you've posted to.






 New Locked thread you've posted to.






 New thread you've posted to.






 Hot thread.






 New Hot Locked Thread






 Hot New Thread






 Locked Thread






 New Locked Thread






 Moved thread






 New Moved Thread






 New Thread

Ok, now that I'm reviewing them I see that I have accidently left the box in all of them.  Sorry 'bout that.  I do 'err from time to time.

(BTW, refreshing this page will immediately switch you to the most current set of icons.  Should have worked the bugs out of this before migrating it to main argh).


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## Michael Morris

I've increased the contrast between new and old threads, especially hot ones, and Ive removed the boxes from the icons that shouldn't have them.


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## omokage

An improvement. In spite of my earlier criticism I am very grateful that you are here and are constantly interested in updating/improving the site and willing to do the work necessary.

Thanks Spoony Bard.


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## DaveMage

MUCH better now - thanks!


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## Morrus

I think the hot thread icon is fairly useless - I might increase the "requirement" for hot threads to something like 100 posts, so that it doesn't come up as often. It doesn't really have a functional use, at least for me.

What I really need to see (for my own posting habits):

1) New threads. This is the most important to me. I want to very, very clearly see which threads are new.

2) Threads I've posted to. 

3) Locked threads.

Anything else is redundant to me. I would be a happy camper with just those three icons.

I think that having different icons for "locked threads", "new locked threads", "hot locked threads", "new hot locked threads" is silly.  If it's locked, I don;t care if it's new, old, hot or not.


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## Psionicist

Morrus said:
			
		

> What I really need to see (for my own posting habits):
> 
> 1) New threads. This is the most important to me. I want to very, very clearly see which threads are new.
> 
> 2) Threads I've posted to.
> 
> 3) Locked threads.
> 
> Anything else is redundant to me. I would be a happy camper with just those three icons.




I couldn't have said it any better myself. 




Spoiler



We shall remember this day as the day Psionicist agreed, 100%, with Morrus.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian

Much better, Michael. Thanks!


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## William Ronald

Everything looks great and is working well.  Michael, thanks for all  your efforts!!


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## Hypersmurf

Morrus said:
			
		

> I think the hot thread icon is fairly useless - I might increase the "requirement" for hot threads to something like 100 posts, so that it doesn't come up as often. It doesn't really have a functional use, at least for me.
> 
> What I really need to see (for my own posting habits):
> 
> 1) New threads. This is the most important to me. I want to very, very clearly see which threads are new.




Yeah.  This seems to be the prevailing feeling.

Especially now that the little white box problem is fixed (yay!) :

I think if the "New Thread" (white) and "Hot Thread" (orange) colours were swapped, it would fix the problem.  That way the coloured icons (orange and yellow) represent new posts, and the colourless icons (grey and white) represent no new posts... which is intuitive, and also matches the way the envelopes worked.

-Hyp.


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## haiiro

Morrus said:
			
		

> 1) New threads. This is the most important to me. I want to very, very clearly see which threads are new.
> 
> 2) Threads I've posted to.
> 
> 3) Locked threads.




I agree completely. I don't mind having other things indicated by the icons, but I don't need them.

Thanks for fixing the white box issue, Spoony -- that's a big help.


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## Olive

haiiro said:
			
		

> Thanks for fixing the white box issue, Spoony -- that's a big help.




Totally! Much ebtter.

I know that the hot thread idea isn't yours, but I agree with Morrus that the concept of a hot thread seems kinda redundant.  can tell it's hot by the number of pages after it!


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## Brown Jenkin

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Yeah.  This seems to be the prevailing feeling.
> 
> Especially now that the little white box problem is fixed (yay!) :
> 
> I think if the "New Thread" (white) and "Hot Thread" (orange) colours were swapped, it would fix the problem.  That way the coloured icons (orange and yellow) represent new posts, and the colourless icons (grey and white) represent no new posts... which is intuitive, and also matches the way the envelopes worked.
> 
> -Hyp.




I'd be perfectly happy without hot threads as well but if you must do them Hypersmurf has the right idea.


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## Michael Morris

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> I think if the "New Thread" (white) and "Hot Thread" (orange) colours were swapped, it would fix the problem.  That way the coloured icons (orange and yellow) represent new posts, and the colourless icons (grey and white) represent no new posts... which is intuitive, and also matches the way the envelopes worked.
> 
> -Hyp.




Good idea and done.  Made the yellow for new hot threads a little stronger.


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## Hypersmurf

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> Good idea and done.  Made the yellow for new hot threads a little stronger.




Yeah, yeah, that's it.

That's much more usable.

Cool.

If it came down to a vote on the mini-globes vs arrows, I'd vote for the arrows... but that doesn't actually affect usability, so I'm not too stressed on that one.

-Hyp.


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## Brown Jenkin

Yes, much better. Thank you.


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## Creamsteak

I don't know if it's because I'm here for 3-4 hours sporatically each day, but I've never used these features myself. I kinda "remember" where I posted and what threads I've read and want to read further.


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## andargor

Much better, thanks Spoony.

Like the Smurf said, I like arrows better, but you can't have everything in life 

Andargor


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## Fajitas

Ahhhh.  Thank you.  Much, much better, indeed.


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## jezter6

To those who said envelopes are counter intuitive and clunky...

How clunky is: Open Envelope, new unread posts. Closed envelope, no new posts??

It sure beats having to print out a color map of the icon set because they're all exactly the same thing with just different colors. "Was blue what I was looking for, or was it red?"

Back to my original question, could we please put together a style that is not messed with. THe normal EN World look with the default buttons. Right now my only choices are "super flashy with a bunch of icons and colorschemes" or "absolute nothingness"


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## Isida Kep'Tukari

Much better now, and it looks awesome.  Thanks for your efforts Michael!


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## Michael Morris

Psionicist said:
			
		

> Regarding server load, if you remove all the javascripts each and every page will not only be less annoying (javascripts are annoying), they will also be 31 KB lighter. 31 KB is alot, you can write a real time operating system in less.  Think about it, thousands of page loads times those 31 KB...
> 
> /clientscript/vbulletin_global.js	17.9 KB
> /clientscript/vbulletin_menu.js		13.1 KB
> 
> The drop down menus will not work without the javascripts, but that can be solved (lots of other forum software works perfectly okay without dropdown menus).
> 
> Oh, and for 56k users, those 31 KB will take 5-10 seconds to download, if they aren't cached.




I missed this post earlier. Oh well.

I'm well aware of the limitations of javascript Psionicist. Despite them, the programmers of vbulletin saw fit to employ javascript to achieve several key functions on vbulletin, and I'm not too inclined to tamper with it without due cause since they have far more programming experience than I, and I daresay you.


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## Psionicist

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> ...




Thanks, I noticed you changed your reply.


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## Piratecat

Might I suggest that bickering is not helpful? Why yes, yes I might.

Let it go, gang.


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## Michael Morris

jezter6 said:
			
		

> To those who said envelopes are counter intuitive and clunky...
> 
> How clunky is: Open Envelope, new unread posts. Closed envelope, no new posts??
> 
> It sure beats having to print out a color map of the icon set because they're all exactly the same thing with just different colors. "Was blue what I was looking for, or was it red?"
> 
> Back to my original question, could we please put together a style that is not messed with. THe normal EN World look with the default buttons.




I'll think on it.  In the meanwhile, Electric Blue uses the default icons still, and probably will for a while.


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## Arnwyn

Piratecat said:
			
		

> we want things to be both functional and pretty, 'cause just pretty doesn't really cut it. /snip/ and keep telling us what you do and don't like.



Okay, here goes.


			
				doghead said:
			
		

> But the missing icons from Stealth makes it more difficult to get to the newest post or the last post.



This is my biggest concern. I have no problem with Stealth being "stealthy", of course, but this is a major loss of functionality for me - and very little gain on stealthiness (especially considering some of horribly huge and gaudy sigs out there, if you leave them on).

The little default vBulletin envelopes were barely noticeable in Stealth mode - thus still making it stealthy _and_ functional (as the most important thing for me - seeing which threads I have posted to - is now gone).

Is there any way of bringing the little envelopes for Stealth? Otherwise (as other posters noted) it becomes an all or nothing choice. I'm stuck with the big black default page if I want any form of utility. 

(Aside: I'm fine with the globes and stuff on the default mode, though.)


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## Michael Morris

arnwyn said:
			
		

> (Aside: I'm fine with the globes and stuff on the default mode, though.)




As soon as Melanie Creel from WotC looks over the two WotC test styles I'll dump their header (which contain copyrighted graphics) and allow board access to at least one of them (the second will require more work - it's more unpolished).  It's a white page design like stealth so it should fulfil the need for a white background graphics style in the lineup.


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## Arnwyn

Cool.

Hopefully all goes well. I do indeed use Stealth at work, but I need a bit of functionality (ie. new posts/replied to posts indicators) as well. I'm curious to see what it'll be like - a white background style should work well enough for me.


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## Psionicist

I love the new larger globes at the forum index:






Thumbs up.


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