# Downsides of Working From Home



## wingsandsword (Apr 30, 2020)

I'm fortunate enough to have a job, in this era of pandemic, that lets me work from home.  I'm in the roughly 1/3 of the workforce that is now doing so.  It's a white-collar office job in a State Government bureaucracy.

For *years *I'd said our job could be done by telecommuting, that there was no reason we couldn't work from home.  For *years*, I'd been told that was "absolutely impossible" or "utterly unthinkable" and was eventually told to stop asking or even mentioning the possibility of working from home.  I was told it was never going to happen.

In March, they made the unthinkable happen real quick.  On March 6, they pulled out a policy plan for working from home (apparently approved years ago and promptly shelved). . .where we'd all separately fill out written requests to work from home and send them up the chain of command to get approved (expected to take weeks for approval) and sign some lengthy telecommuting agreement IF our requests were approved, we'd all be issued laptop computers, we'd all be issued work phones, we'd all have to buy, at our own expense, locking filing cabinets for our home offices, and we'd still have to come in to work at least 1 day a week.

A week later, that changed.  On March 13, suddenly they are asking if we have our own PC's with internet access at home, handing us flash drives and asking us to load all our work files on them, and asking everyone to share their personal cell phone numbers, and we are told at about 2 PM on Friday that, effective Monday morning, we're working completely from home for the next two weeks.

Those first two weeks were fine.  Hands-off management, just make sure to fill out your timesheet online every day, e-mail in your finished paperwork to the one person left at the office who will upload them to the server (since we didn't have VPN or any other way to access the server), and fill out a status report form every week.

At the end of the two weeks, they said this was going to keep going for a while. . .and there aren't enough laptops to go around since the bulk of the civil service is all now working from home. . .and the IT department says VPN connections from our home computers are NOT going to be happening, so come and move your work desktop to your home and set it up there!  

Also, around that time, they started to get a lot more micromanaging.  E-mail your boss every day to clock in to work, e-mail them to clock out, e-mail them when you go on lunch, e-mail them when you come back from lunch.  Status report forms are now daily, and they're watching with a hawk's eye what's on there and if you said you spend X time on something and they think that's too long, there will be hell to pay.  I got assigned a case that was part of a program I'd never worked with or touched before, so I put on my daily status report one day that I'd spent the day reviewing the policies, laws, and regulations around that program. . .only to be chewed out saying it shouldn't have taken all day to do that and I was wasting time.  Yet, if we were in the office that's still how long that task would have taken and nobody would have noticed or cared if I spent all day reading regulations and laws and policies about a new program I'd never had to work with before.

Informal office communications are a thing of the past.  No more friendly telling someone something, everything is now a formal, stern e-mail (since it's on the record).  Conversations that would be handled amiably and off-the-record in the past are now stern and formally worded e-mails for the record.  

. . .and on top of the stress from the coronavirus pandemic we're all under, my father is dying.  He's got advanced bone cancer, he's in a rest home that's under a strict quarantine lockdown due to the virus, so I can't even go to see him.  He's been diagnosed with "weeks" to live, and they said that about 2 months ago.   Every time I talk to him, it's clear he's fading, he's always more and more tired, sleepier and sleepier, and while he says  he's "feeling fine" and "no issues", he's visibly wincing and grimacing as he says it, putting on a brave face.  Barring a true miracle, I've seen my father for the last time in person and will most likely be burying him in the next month or two.   

They now do a weekly conference call staff meeting, we're told this is the status quo "in the long term" and that even initial discussions about returning to the office aren't happening and won't happen until there's a vaccine, herd immunity, or a cure for the virus.

I know this has taken a toll on my productivity (and quite bluntly, my mental health), I think it would on just about anyone. . .so when they chew me out for not getting a lot of work done and I try to explain that, I'm told in no uncertain terms that if I'm on the clock I'm expected to be at 100% functionality and lost productivity due to worries or stress is NOT acceptable, that if I can't work at full capacity due to my father or due to stress over the coronavirus, I should take sick time off work.

Note that our job doesn't have paid leave for bereavement, when my father dies, I'll have to take sick leave for that too.

While I like not having to spend an hour and a half each day commuting, the increasing micromanagement, breakdown in office communications, and absolute lack of any empathy or compassion over what's going on with my father is making me very stressed.


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## BrokenTwin (Apr 30, 2020)

Thankfully, my management has been fairly hands off from the get go, and the transition to working from home hasn't really changed that. As long as we're getting our work done and promptly responding to client issues, they don't really care. Micromanagers are the death of any healthy working environment. They destroy productivity, morale, and team spirit. It sucks that you have to deal with that on top of everything else going on in your life.
I've got a family member that's rapidly fading in a rest home as well, and it's rough. They're in late stage Alzheimer's to boot, which makes it easier in a weird way. The person I loved is already long gone, we're just waiting for their body to catch up.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2020)

I’ve been working from home for 20 years. It took some getting used to, but it’s normal for me now.


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## Thakazum (Apr 30, 2020)

I've done it for long stretches before while freelancing and do not like it for me, personally. Different reasons, though. I find life becomes monotonous when I don't spend time away from my sanctum. I typically opt to _not_ take advantage of telecommuting at workplaces for these and other reasons.


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## Ryujin (Apr 30, 2020)

Unfortunately micro-managing seems to be status quo for the foreseeable future. Managers are afraid that their subordinates will slack off because they aren't constantly hovering over them, as they would on-site. Our weekly on-site status meetings have become daily meetings, in which the same thing is repeated over and over. I'm part of the group that supports desktop computing and networking (in a university), and I would regularly be walking all over campus, but am now chained to a desk. I'm using remote access software to troubleshoot issues that would take a fraction of the time, if hands-on.


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## payn (Apr 30, 2020)

OP, sorry to hear about your father and all the stress you are going through. I know that might not make you feel better, but i'm glad you could vent some of your frustration here.


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## Umbran (Apr 30, 2020)

Morrus said:


> I’ve been working from home for 20 years. It took some getting used to, but it’s normal for me now.




Yeah, but... you're your own boss.  It isn't just he that needs to get use to it.  His _entire government organization_ has to get used to it.  That's a lot of pain.


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## Ralif Redhammer (Apr 30, 2020)

Sorry to hear that working from home has been rough for you, @wingsandsword, and what you're going through with your father. 

I was lucky in that my department had finally rolled out telecommuting about half a year ago. Our infrastructure was already in place when it went from a luxury to requirement.

I do miss seeing my coworkers in person, but to be honest a good portion of my department were already working from home most of the time. The whole no commuting thing for those with longer commutes was immediately appealing to them. Me, I can see where I work from my window.

I think that it's important to reach out to your coworkers, just to talk. It can be about work stuff or not. Whether it's an IM, call, or videocall, it helps. I know I need to be better about that, as it's easy to get focused on whatever I'm working on.

For me, I've had to work extra hard to get my physical activity. I was exercising plenty beforehand, but even with that, not having any sort of commute (I was one of those folks that would also take the steps instead of the elevator) definitely means I need to make sure I go for a walk (away from people) and get on the treadmill daily.


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## Zardnaar (Apr 30, 2020)

The boss.


 Sucks about your dad, I kinda knew when I saw Mum for the last time I wouldn't see her again. Worst thing with cancer is each time you visit there's a bit less of them there, you can't do anything about it and that feeling in your stomach doesn't go away.


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## Umbran (Apr 30, 2020)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> I think that it's important to reach out to your coworkers, just to talk. It can be about work stuff or not. Whether it's an IM, call, or videocall, it helps. I know I need to be better about that, as it's easy to get focused on whatever I'm working on.




My workplace has the President doing a fireside science chat every Friday,  Thursdays is "Happy Hour" in which one of us does a short trivia contest - the winner gets a gift certificate to get lunch delivered to their home.  I'm in the hot seat today, presenting a bit of sci-fi trivia.

This sort of thing can be strangely popular, because lots of folks are looking for human contact.  Consider running it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes the idea.




Zardnaar said:


> The boss.




Possibly.  The boss is also just as stressed as everyone else about the world around them, and having to figure out how to manage people working from home on the fly, probably expecting to be lambasted by their boss if productivity drops.  

Fear is a powerful motivator, but it often motivates people to do the wrong things.


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## Deset Gled (Apr 30, 2020)

wingsandsword said:


> For *years *I'd said our job could be done by telecommuting, that there was no reason we couldn't work from home.  For *years*, I'd been told that was "absolutely impossible" or "utterly unthinkable" and was eventually told to stop asking or even mentioning the possibility of working from home.  I was told it was never going to happen.
> 
> In March, they made the unthinkable happen real quick.




I'm fortunate enough to work from home already (my company's home office is a couple of states away from me), but I had a similar experience >10 years ago.  I had a pretty bad commute, and also had a couple of projects that required a deep delve - the kind of work where distractions really cost me a lot of time.  Some time in the fall, I asked my boss if I could work from home for just a couple of days for peace and quiet to get through some projects.  I was told it was absolutely not possible, despite the fact that I already had remote email and phone access.  

That year we had a rough winter.  After the second day the company was shut down because of weather, my boss approached me.  Heavily paraphrased, the conversation went something along the lines of:

Boss: Remember awhile back when we talked about telecommuting?  Are you still interested in getting that set up?
Me: Yeah, that would be great.  I would love to work at home tomorrow, because I really need to focus on XYZ project and the roads cost me over an hour each way today.
B: No, you can't do it tomorrow.  Only on days when the office is closed for weather.  Or if you want to do some emails with the China office at night, or call in to meetings if you have a sick day.
M: What?  You want me to work from home, using my own equipment, but only at times when I wouldn't otherwise be working?
B:  Exactly.
M: No.

And that was the last we discussed telecommuting.  I'm with a much better company now.


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## Tonguez (Apr 30, 2020)

wingsandsword said:


> I'm fortunate enough to have a job, in this era of pandemic, that lets me work from home.  I'm in the roughly 1/3 of the workforce that is now doing so.  It's a white-collar office job in a State Government bureaucracy.
> 
> For *years *I'd said our job could be done by telecommuting, that there was no reason we couldn't work from home.  For *years*, I'd been told that was "absolutely impossible" or "utterly unthinkable" and was eventually told to stop asking or even mentioning the possibility of working from home.  I was told it was never going to happen.
> 
> ...




wow bureaucracy gone crazy - it sounds like the middle management were getting worried about having nothing to do and thus got HR to demand emails for everything.

I work from home and might go to the office maybe 3 -4 days a week or when I want something. We use group calls and Zoom a lot, but emails tend to be sufficient to stay in communication. 
Having Outcomes based reporting is helpful and I think more productive.


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## DammitVictor (Apr 30, 2020)

I sure do miss _having a job_ a lot, most days, but I sure don't ever miss _having a boss_.

On the plus side, I'd ever had a boss like OP's, I wouldn't have had to put up with them for long.


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## dragoner (Apr 30, 2020)

My boss is a giant a-ho ... wait, I'm self-employed; as a consultant, I usually work from home, or take stuff to a cafe to work. Sorry to hear of your troubles @wingsandsword micromanaging bosses are terrible. It never seems like it's one thing, fate always loads up until there is the straw that broke the camel's back.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 30, 2020)

My Dad has started doing telemedicine.  It’s a pay cut, but Mom appreciates the safety of it, given the current situation.

Downside, the parent company is still working out technical issues.

Also, we have barky dogs.


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## BookBarbarian (Apr 30, 2020)

My last job had an optional WFH day once a week, but you were judge for using it, and often assumed not to be working. There was even talk of having a camera on at your desk at all times while working from home as if that would somehow would make you more productive. These amongst other inane policies caused me to look for employment elsewhere. Of course now practically everyone there is WFH.

I was fortunate enough to take a full time remote position at the end of January at a company that had been 50% WFH and 50% in office. It's now 95% WFH, but the transition was relatively easy for the rest of the company. Managers treat their employees like adults and wait for problems to arise before addressing them, instead of trying to address non-existent problems with draconian measures. To help with needs all employees got an additional 6 sick days and the sick policy was loosened to make dependent care a qualifier for using sick time instead of vacation. I know how lucky I am to work for reasonable people keeping clear heads right now.

My condolences @wingsandsword for the idiots forcing these stupid policies on you and your coworkers but most especially for you father.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 30, 2020)

OTOH:


> SARUMAN (kneeling before a Palantir): What is thy will, Sauron, lord of Middle-Earth?
> 
> BURNING EYE: BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTHY OF-
> 
> ...




~ Scott Lynch, on Twitter


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## Ryujin (Apr 30, 2020)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> My Dad has started doing telemedicine.  It’s a pay cut, but Mom appreciates the safety of it, given the current situation.
> 
> Downside, the parent company is still working out technical issues.
> 
> Also, we have barky dogs.




If you're running an advanced NVidia video card in your computer, there's a rather impressive beta currently running for noise suppression. I know a couple of people who are using it and it's rather remarkable. Sadly, I've got a AMD card.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 30, 2020)

Dad’s running whatever is on the laptop they issued him, and he has no authority to modify it.


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## Umbran (May 1, 2020)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Also, we have barky dogs.




I think one of my cats has conditioned herself to the "entering meeting" chimes of a couple of different applications now.  As soon as she hears them, she hops in my lap and starts headbutting my hands to pet her.


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## Ralif Redhammer (May 1, 2020)

Our cats generally only come downstairs to my office to yell at me to feed them at 4:30pm...which is still an hour before their feeding time.

Our dog is old and mellow (but also very stubborn), so she doesn't bark all that much (she's also mostly deaf, so she doesn't hear as much to bark at).  



Umbran said:


> I think one of my cats has conditioned herself to the "entering meeting" chimes of a couple of different applications now.  As soon as she hears them, she hops in my lap and starts headbutting my hands to pet her.


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## Derren (May 2, 2020)




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## Eltab (May 2, 2020)

My problems sound trivial, thanks a lot !
We had to WFH in one week.  I kitbashed a jury-rigged setup to substitute for a desk, in one child's bedroom.  I live in a small house (but not a capital-T capital-H Tiny House) so no spare room to convert into home office.  I am looking forward to my old fits-my-arm's-length desk at work again.

I have FIVE neighbors with barky dogs who have not yet established the neighborhood canine dominance chain - top that !


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## The Green Hermit (May 2, 2020)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> I think that it's important to reach out to your coworkers, just to talk. It can be about work stuff or not. Whether it's an IM, call, or videocall, it helps. I know I need to be better about that, as it's easy to get focused on whatever I'm working on.



This. We have our required meetings, but I also have three hours of the week that are scheduled to just socialize with co-workers -- without the boss, even though our boss is pretty understanding (and family to half of the workforce).


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## Blue (May 3, 2020)

Sorry to hear about your father, and your work-from-home.  One of the biggest issues with getting work-from-home approved in the first place was a distrust that people would be actually working.

I was lucky - I'm IT and we supported all of the Americas, so we were kitted out that even if there was a blizzard, we could work remotely. Because we already had things in place (read: they wouldn't have to spend any money), we were tapped to pilot work-from-home in 2015. And because measurable productivity went _up_, we were allowed to keep doing it. Here's a bit of what made it work for us, but it assume white collar office work.

But it was a large adaption to get used to it, and we lucked out with our big bosses who set the expectations not only among us, but up the chain. First, we were very results oriented as opposed to hour-oriented. And those tasks were measurable. So they could see milestones getting done and didn't care if someone took 10 minutes to say Hi to their kids when they got home from school or finished something after dinner. This really critical, because otherwise there isn't a sense of things getting done to senior management. Hopefully you already project managers or KPIs with baselines of what they can reasonably expect while you are in the office.

Second, get a work instant messager. Plenty like Slack out there everyone can hit over the internet. Being able to chat with people informally is really a big thing. The equivalent of popping your head over a cube and asking a question, or chatting while getting coffee. And really call people you work with. There were times when we'd log three hour calls - 20 minutes of planning something out we were working on together, and then the rest of occasional chatting and connecting to the person, random "put our heads together" when having problems, and sometimes just companionable silence but there was someone there.

I put all ofthat in the past tense - my company has been acquired and the new company doesn't do work from home ... but I'm attached to the corporate head office in Denmark and have to work remotely with people anyhow so I've managed to keep it going. Which is good, commuting to the new office would steal about two hours from my life. And I appreciate it - there's always been the "need a few more minutes" and work late (salaried, no extra money), but going above even that now and then is more than worth it to avoid the commute time.

So I guess the advice can be summed up as: get them focused on deliverables, and make sure those flow, and get instant & informal communication set up among your peers and the people you work with.


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## Dioltach (May 3, 2020)

Umbran said:


> I think one of my cats has conditioned herself to the "entering meeting" chimes of a couple of different applications now.  As soon as she hears them, she hops in my lap and starts headbutting my hands to pet her.



I've been working from home for 17 years, and virtually all my communications are by email. So when my wife is away (she usually spends at least a month a year visiting her parents abroad) there's very little in the way of actual speech going on. So whenever I'm talking to the wife on Skype, my three cats go crazy: walking over the desk and nuzzling my face and hands. I assume they think I'm singing to them.


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## Eltab (May 5, 2020)

We had a conference call today with a dozen(?) phone participants.  You cannot tell who is speaking - important if the boss is giving instructions - because all voices sound the same when filtered through two phones.  Also, no visual cues when somebody wants to speak so three or four of us would start at once.

Yay for meeting in person, even though my work team would need to use a banquet hall to properly social distance ourselves from each other, and have a cheerleader's megaphone to make ourselves heard clearly.


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## Ryujin (May 6, 2020)

Eltab said:


> We had a conference call today with a dozen(?) phone participants.  You cannot tell who is speaking - important if the boss is giving instructions - because all voices sound the same when filtered through two phones.  Also, no visual cues when somebody wants to speak so three or four of us would start at once.
> 
> Yay for meeting in person, even though my work team would need to use a banquet hall to properly social distance ourselves from each other, and have a cheerleader's megaphone to make ourselves heard clearly.




Every weekday I have a 'meeting' with my manager and 14 co-workers. Most of us are on video, through Google Meet or Google Hangouts, so we've got the visual cues to avoid talking over each other (most of the time). There is, however, that one co-worker who always wants to go on a rant about things we shouldn't be supporting, who just talks over everyone. Including my manager.


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## Blue (May 6, 2020)

Eltab said:


> We had a conference call today with a dozen(?) phone participants.  You cannot tell who is speaking - important if the boss is giving instructions - because all voices sound the same when filtered through two phones.  Also, no visual cues when somebody wants to speak so three or four of us would start at once.
> 
> Yay for meeting in person, even though my work team would need to use a banquet hall to properly social distance ourselves from each other, and have a cheerleader's megaphone to make ourselves heard clearly.




Part of the growing pains of WfH - you learn to have smaller meetings, and often will do a videoconference.

Zoom is cheap and good - one person with a $15/mo subscription can do unlimited 100 person meetings.  We use it to play several RPGs, and we did a 44 person surprise 50th birthday party (along with word/speaking based games).


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## BookBarbarian (May 7, 2020)

Blue said:


> Part of the growing pains of WfH - you learn to have smaller meetings, and often will do a videoconference.
> 
> Zoom is cheap and good - one person with a $15/mo subscription can do unlimited 100 person meetings.  We use it to play several RPGs, and we did a 44 person surprise 50th birthday party (along with word/speaking based games).



We have 18 people on my team and we do a call every morning. Only one person speaks at a time, everyone mutes their mic when not speaking. Everyone shuts off their camera if they are eating at their desk. You just get used to the WFH life after a while I guess.


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## Ralif Redhammer (May 7, 2020)

An unmuted person crunching away at chips is an irritation in both an online meeting and an online D&D game.



BookBarbarian said:


> We have 18 people on my team and we do a call every morning. Only one person speaks at a time, everyone mutes their mic when not speaking. Everyone shuts off their camera if they are eating at their desk. You just get used to the WFH life after a while I guess.


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## The Green Hermit (May 7, 2020)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> An unmuted person crunching away at chips is an irritation in both an online meeting and an online D&D game.



And an in-person game/meeting. Listening to chip crunching when you aren't said cruncher is ALWAYS annoying.


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## Janx (May 8, 2020)

I've been doing WFH for a decade.  Nobody has ever done a camera meeting. Every client hasn't bothered with that.  Why waste bandwidth?


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## Umbran (May 8, 2020)

Janx said:


> Why waste bandwidth?




Because, if you are doing it properly, it isn't wasted.  Especially for a group of people who are trying to work as a team, or otherwise collaborate.

Go figure, a species that has an oversized chunk of its brain capacity tasked with facial recognition... actually works together better, and understands each other better, if they can see faces.


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## Blue (May 8, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Because, if you are doing it properly, it isn't wasted.  Especially for a group of people who are trying to work as a team, or otherwise collaborate.
> 
> Go figure, a species that has an oversized chunk of its brain capacity tasked with facial recognition... actually works together better, and understands each other better, if they can see faces.




I was going to say this, but you said it better.  There's a huge amount of communication bandwidth in our faces and motions.

I will add that putting faces to voices helps humanize the people on the other side as well. Better for developing/strengthening relationships.

I've only WfH for 5 years, half of @Janx whom you were replying, but I've been working for well over two decades with a global company not headquartered in the my country.  Orders of magnitude being "more real" to corporate moving from email to voice, and then again voice to video.  And I tell you that for non-English speakers I am able to pick up more of what they are saying in a videoconference than just voice.  (Though most put me to shame with how good their English is vs. my ability with other languages.)


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## tomBitonti (May 9, 2020)

Blue said:


> I was going to say this, but you said it better.  There's a huge amount of communication bandwidth in our faces and motions.
> 
> I will add that putting faces to voices helps humanize the people on the other side as well. Better for developing/strengthening relationships.
> 
> I've only WfH for 5 years, half of @Janx whom you were replying, but I've been working for well over two decades with a global company not headquartered in the my country.  Orders of magnitude being "more real" to corporate moving from email to voice, and then again voice to video.  And I tell you that for non-English speakers I am able to pick up more of what they are saying in a videoconference than just voice.  (Though most put me to shame with how good their English is vs. my ability with other languages.)



We have both voice and video, but usually the video isn’t important, and is often off for individuals.  When it’s on it’s often just a small thumbnail for each person.
That may be because most meetings have either presentation material — a design document, or a list of issues — or meeting notes, for example, scrum notes — which have focus.  Also, folks will often split their focus, say, to a side chat, or to check e-mail, or to other work if they are just monitoring a meeting.
Be safe, be well,
Tom Bitonti


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## Janx (May 9, 2020)

tomBitonti said:


> We have both voice and video, but usually the video isn’t important, and is often off for individuals.  When it’s on it’s often just a small thumbnail for each person.
> That may be because most meetings have either presentation material — a design document, or a list of issues — or meeting notes, for example, scrum notes — which have focus.  Also, folks will often split their focus, say, to a side chat, or to check e-mail, or to other work if they are just monitoring a meeting.
> Be safe, be well,
> Tom Bitonti



exactly.  Plus, some of these people don't have great bandwidth.  I'd rather HEAR clearly than get a garbled video and voice.

Sure all that facial feedback is great.  But there are reasons it's not used and it's not holding them back.


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## Blue (May 10, 2020)

Janx said:


> exactly.  Plus, some of these people don't have great bandwidth.  I'd rather HEAR clearly than get a garbled video and voice.
> 
> Sure all that facial feedback is great.  But there are reasons it's not used and it's not holding them back.




Really, in today's day and age when we can deliver HD movies to everyone's houses all day, there really is *no* technical reason why it's not used. 

If you have garbled video when you are doing it, my guess is you are using wireless.  Or have a crappy home internet and other people using it.  Because with a good wired internet connection, todays solutions will give you both at high quality.  Even transcontinental - known from doing regularly.  Or maybe you're using some cut-rate service, or thru a VPN and routed badly.  Basically, if it's not good, there's some mess up going on that you can fix instead of living in the past where there were legitimate technical concerns about it.


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## MGibster (May 10, 2020)

Working from home presents some challenges to employers and employees alike.  I've been working from home since mid-March and I haven't been as productive as I would have been in the office.  I feel disengaged, have a difficult time with motivation, and am not satisfied with work as much as I was  before Covid-19.  My company is extremely supportive and I don't have to jump through any unnecessary hoops like emailing my boss my minute-by-minute activities throughout the day.  She doesn't micromanage at the office so why would she start now?  

I'm a little better about it now.  Work has slowed down quite a bit but I've taken the opportunity to enroll in professional development courses online.  So, hooray for that.  I've also softened by stance on working from home.  I was okay with it for other people but firmly against it for myself.  I'd still rather work in the office but I can work from home if I have to.


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## Blue (May 10, 2020)

MGibster said:


> Working from home presents some challenges to employers and employees alike.  I've been working from home since mid-March and I haven't been as productive as I would have been in the office.  I feel disengaged, have a difficult time with motivation, and am not satisfied with work as much as I was  before Covid-19.  My company is extremely supportive and I don't have to jump through any unnecessary hoops like emailing my boss my minute-by-minute activities throughout the day.  She doesn't micromanage at the office so why would she start now?
> 
> I'm a little better about it now.  Work has slowed down quite a bit but I've taken the opportunity to enroll in professional development courses online.  So, hooray for that.  I've also softened by stance on working from home.  I was okay with it for other people but firmly against it for myself.  I'd still rather work in the office but I can work from home if I have to.




If your situation is anything like mine, there may be two factors contributing to this.

First, when I started working at home it took a bit to get up to speed. We were not used to jumping on IM or a call to each other much more readily than previously, and felt a bit adrift. I was used to casual collaboration - even just explaining what I was planning on doing often could shake lose issues or improvements even before other's feedback, and I didn't notice that lack immediately. My work (IT) often needs late or off-hours, and I'd find myself checking emails because I heard the "ping" of it coming in after dinner or whatever, and that lead to me never really feeling I was off and getting a bit burnt. All of these were solvable, but we needed to adopt a more work at home culture.

That was back in 2015. COVID-19 has brought it's own issues. Without differentiators the days blend together and the weekends dont' have much special to break up the work week psychologically, when we are used to a clear differentiation. When we do talk to coworkers we aren't as cheered, we can hear the stress and anxiety in their voices as well. Assuming we're not passing around stories of those sick, of family who has passed, or those laid off. For me this was a major hit, and if I had been doing it at the same time I had expereienced the early Work-from-Home issues it would have been a really nasty one-two punch.

That's just my experience, yours may differ.  But a whole new way or working that will take time to acclimate to, on top of months that seem to go forever of stress and anxiety is frankly, an ugly place to be stuck in.

I wish you the best of luck in sorting things out and finding your personal solution.


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## Umbran (May 10, 2020)

Blue said:


> Really, in today's day and age when we can deliver HD movies to everyone's houses all day, there really is *no* technical reason why it's not used.




But.. we can't.  In some areas, school districts have to kit out school buses with internet connections and wifi, and park them outside apartment buildings so students can do online learning.

We can deliver HD movies to the houses of those who are well off.  Not _everybody_.


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## Umbran (May 10, 2020)

Janx said:


> But there are reasons it's not used and it's not holding them back.




It is perhaps more accurate to say that it isn't stopping them.  

But it is probably slowing them down, holding them back.  It is rather likely that their conversations are less efficient than they could be - they could understand each other better and faster if there was video.  That understanding and human connection tends to lead to greater trust.  And trust between team members is a cornerstone of performance.

You don't notice the impact over a few days.  But over weeks and months, it starts to show.  And goodness help you if you have to bring new members into at team when they can't _see_ each other.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 10, 2020)

Covid-19 silver lining: if the disease reshapes the American K-12 educational landscape so much that online classes are essentially REQUIRED as a public health measure, our impoverished schools will be upgraded by force of law.


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## Umbran (May 10, 2020)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Covid-19 silver lining: if the disease reshapes the American K-12 educational landscape so much that online classes are essentially REQUIRED as a public health measure, our impoverished schools will be upgraded by force of law.




But then you have the issue of getting broadband to every kid, which is not a minor task.


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## Aeson (May 10, 2020)

It's not a minor task, but thankfully we have a lot of people out of work and government wanting to throw money at the problem. Maybe setting up a program to get people to work setting broadband up in various parts of the country?


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 10, 2020)

Umbran said:


> But then you have the issue of getting broadband to every kid, which is not a minor task.



It’s a HUGE task.  And considering America’s _sterling_ history with proper funding of schools for teacher salaries, infrastructure and the like, one littered with all kinds of political landmines.

And it isn’t just the school having the network, it’s also getting the devices into the hands of the kids.  IOW, *$$$$$$!*

But it will be extremely difficult to sell the concept of mandatory K-12 with mandates about social distancing/online courses for public health reasons while simultaneously not having that in place.

”You have to go to school, but you can’t go TO the school.” would run afoul of not only informed voters, but the law as well.  Remember, the judiciary in KS slapped the State around when it repeatedly tried to underfund the education system due to the supply-side budget shortfall, violating the law.


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## The Green Hermit (May 11, 2020)

Blue said:


> Really, in today's day and age when we can deliver HD movies to everyone's houses all day, there really is *no* technical reason why it's not used.
> 
> If you have garbled video when you are doing it, my guess is you are using wireless.  Or have a crappy home internet and other people using it.  Because with a good wired internet connection, todays solutions will give you both at high quality.  Even transcontinental - known from doing regularly.  Or maybe you're using some cut-rate service, or thru a VPN and routed badly.  Basically, if it's not good, there's some mess up going on that you can fix instead of living in the past where there were legitimate technical concerns about it.



Unless you are in a rural area. Not everybody lives in cities.


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## The Green Hermit (May 11, 2020)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Covid-19 silver lining: if the disease reshapes the American K-12 educational landscape so much that online classes are essentially REQUIRED as a public health measure, our impoverished schools will be upgraded by force of law.



I don't think they should be required. I am an Online teacher, and as much as I love my job, it is definitely not the best solution for every student. 

Having said that, I do hope that this spurs upgrades in the technological infrastructure so that it is an OPTION for every student. I also think that having training and practice in this is good for everybody, just in case a similar situation happens again. Heck, just avoiding having to make up snow days at the end of the year would be nice.


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## The Green Hermit (May 11, 2020)

Aeson said:


> It's not a minor task, but thankfully we have a lot of people out of work and government wanting to throw money at the problem. Maybe setting up a program to get people to work setting broadband up in various parts of the country?



It worked after the Great Depression.


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## Aeson (May 11, 2020)

The Green Hermit said:


> It worked after the Great Depression.



And the Recession. I remember all the road projects going on. building a better digital infrastructure is worth the time and money now.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 11, 2020)

The Green Hermit said:


> I don't think they should be required. I am an Online teacher, and as much as I love my job, it is definitely not the best solution for every student.
> 
> Having said that, I do hope that this spurs upgrades in the technological infrastructure so that it is an OPTION for every student. I also think that having training and practice in this is good for everybody, just in case a similar situation happens again. Heck, just avoiding having to make up snow days at the end of the year would be nice.



Not only that, it’s not a solution for every CLASS.  Some things are better taught face to face, in groups.  Some things can’t be taught remotely with any efficiency.

But worst case scenario- years or decades of no vaccine, no treatment, and no long-term post-exposure immunity- 30 students per classroom from 9-5 in schools of 3000 students isn‘t going to be sustainable.


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## Umbran (May 11, 2020)

Aeson said:


> And the Recession. I remember all the road projects going on. building a better digital infrastructure is worth the time and money now.




It isn't that simple, at all.  Because the roads are owned by the states and communities in which they live.  Our digital infrastructure, on the other hand, is based on some very complicated leasing arrangements with various companies that provide internet services.  Government(s) cant' just put people on it, because they don't own it.

And, more importantly - put up all the wire you want, you still need a service at the end of that wire, and the ISPs are not running those services for free.  Also note that the FCC has stepped back from governing ISPs like common utilities, so the public cannot mandate their policies.


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## wingsandsword (May 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> But then you have the issue of getting broadband to every kid, which is not a minor task.



It would provide a nice pretext for expanding broadband infrastructure to rural areas, which has already been an issue in rural America.

ISP's have long been reluctant to run the cables (either fiber optic or coaxial) to rural areas for broadband, leaving them stuck with either dial up, DSL, or satellite internet.  Educational necessity would be a way to force the issue.


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## wingsandsword (May 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> It isn't that simple, at all.  Because the roads are owned by the states and communities in which they live.  Our digital infrastructure, on the other hand, is based on some very complicated leasing arrangements with various companies that provide internet services.  Government(s) cant' just put people on it, because they don't own it.
> 
> And, more importantly - put up all the wire you want, you still need a service at the end of that wire, and the ISPs are not running those services for free.  Also note that the FCC has stepped back from governing ISPs like common utilities, so the public cannot mandate their policies.



That was about ruling they could fall under common carrier provisions.  They can still mandate the policies if
1. The FCC commissioners vote to change their policy.
2. Congress explicitly gives them that authority.

One way or the other, expanding internet to rural areas will take legislative action. . .both in giving the FCC a mandate to the subject, probably subsidizing the process, and if needed, approving the use of eminent domain for the utility easements to put the cables through.

Saying it's for educational necessity due to an increase in distance learning from the COVID-19 pandemic is a good reason for that legislative action, though.


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## Umbran (May 11, 2020)

wingsandsword said:


> That was about ruling they could fall under common carrier provisions.  They can still mandate the policies if
> 1. The FCC commissioners vote to change their policy.
> 2. Congress explicitly gives them that authority.




And those things are terribly unlikely to happen in the next few months.  



> Saying it's for educational necessity due to an increase in distance learning from the COVID-19 pandemic is a good reason for that legislative action, though.




Yes it is.  However, "good reason" really doesn't make things happen all that often.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 11, 2020)

Definitely not an overnight thing; not a flip of a switch.

But it could still happen with lightning speed compared to most government action.  If Covid-19 is the catalyst, I’d say the actual groundwork will be initiated during the next administration, regardless of who is actually in office.

All it would really take is a lawsuit with expedited review making it to the SCOTUS after the war between mandated schooling and pandemic-induced long-term social distancing became manifest.  Call it...24-36 months.


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## Umbran (May 11, 2020)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> If Covid-19 is the catalyst, I’d say the actual groundwork will be initiated during the next administration...




And that's great.  Not even starting on it until next year (and finishing it goodness knows when) makes it a poor candidate for dealing with the absolutely massive unemployment spike we are currently experiencing, though.


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## Ralif Redhammer (May 11, 2020)

This. My computer is in the coldest room in the house, because that's where the only available wired connection is (one of the "charms" of a hundred-year old house). Going wired really makes a difference for online videopresence, whether for work or for gaming.



Blue said:


> If you have garbled video when you are doing it, my guess is you are using wireless.  Or have a crappy home internet and other people using it.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> And that's great.  Not even starting on it until next year (and finishing it goodness knows when) makes it a poor candidate for dealing with the absolutely massive unemployment spike we are currently experiencing, though.



 No argument there.


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## Nebulous (May 11, 2020)

Blue said:


> Zoom is cheap and good - one person with a $15/mo subscription can do unlimited 100 person meetings.  We use it to play several RPGs, and we did a 44 person surprise 50th birthday party (along with word/speaking based games).




At first glance, I thought you said you did a 44 person surprise birthday RPG! I was like, wow, how does that even work?


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## Umbran (May 11, 2020)

Nebulous said:


> At first glance, I thought you said you did a 44 person surprise birthday RPG! I was like, wow, how does that even work?




Zoom has "breakout rooms" that can allow folks to split off into separate work and discussion spaces, so you might well be able to pull it off....


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## Nebulous (May 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Zoom has "breakout rooms" that can allow folks to split off into separate work and discussion spaces, so you might well be able to pull it off....



Wow


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## Umbran (May 11, 2020)

Nebulous said:


> Wow




A favorite house con of mine that runs every summer has cancelled this year's event, so I've done some thinking on how we might do an online equivalent without getting into huge software expenditures, and this was a possibility.


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## tomBitonti (May 11, 2020)

Garbled or fuzzy video can be the result of low quality hardware (using a tiny camera on a laptop) or because of software limitations (delivering smooth and synchronized video plus audio is not trivial; having sufficient bandwidth is just the beginning of requirements).

But also, not everyone is looking for a video feed with more faces.  And not all conversations are improved by face-to-face video.  I find that in most of my technical meetings (which is a fair percentage of my work), I don't use the video feed to look at folks faces.  I do care about hearing folks voices clearly, but am usually too immersed in other information to glance at their faces much.

Be safe, be well,
Tom Bitonti


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## Umbran (May 11, 2020)

tomBitonti said:


> But also, not everyone is looking for a video feed with more faces.  And not all conversations are improved by face-to-face video.




That also depends on what you want to call a "conversation".  

When your meeting is largely a series of people presenting unequivocal information, then video may not be relevant.  In fact, the _meeting_ may not be relevant - having that unequivocal information in an e-mail or other documentation may serve the purpose just as well.  

But, when requirements need to be hashed out, issues worked through, priorities haggled over, or you otherwise need to be able to collaborate with the other human being, broadly speaking, video makes the communication more efficient and effective.


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## Ryujin (May 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> That also depends on what you want to call a "conversation".
> 
> When your meeting is largely a series of people presenting unequivocal information, then video may not be relevant.  In fact, the _meeting_ may not be relevant - having that unequivocal information in an e-mail or other documentation may serve the purpose just as well.
> 
> But, when requirements need to be hashed out, issues worked through, priorities haggled over, or you otherwise need to be able to collaborate with the other human being, broadly speaking, video makes the communication more efficient and effective.




But it's still fun to watch the expression on your co-worker's face while you throw shade at the presenter, via text chat


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## Eltab (May 12, 2020)

The school-at-home infrastructure may not be as expensive as it first looks.  Many middle- and high- school students already have their own cell phones.  Use that as the home-end connection for the student wireless network.  The problem of "can this gear talk to each other?" has been solved already.


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## Umbran (May 12, 2020)

Eltab said:


> The school-at-home infrastructure may not be as expensive as it first looks.  Many middle- and high- school students already have their own cell phones.




About one third of the nation does not currently have broadband internet access/service.

_"Notwithstanding this progress, the Report finds that approximately 19 million Americans—6 percent of the population—still lack access to fixed broadband service at threshold speeds.  In rural areas, nearly one-fourth of the population —14.5 million people—lack access to this service.  In tribal areas, nearly one-third of the population lacks access. *Even in areas where broadband is available, approximately 100 million Americans still do not subscribe.* The report concludes that until the Commission’s Connect America reforms are fully implemented, these gaps are unlikely to close. Because millions still lack access to or have not adopted broadband, the Report concludes broadband is not yet being deployed in a reasonable and timely fashion."_









						Eighth Broadband Progress Report
					

The nation has made significant progress expanding high-speed Internet access in recent years, but further implementation of major reforms newly adopted by the Federal Communications Commission is required before broadband will be available to the approximately 19 million Americans who still...




					www.fcc.gov


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## tomBitonti (May 12, 2020)

Umbran said:


> About one third of the nation does not currently have broadband internet access.
> 
> _"Notwithstanding this progress, the Report finds that approximately 19 million Americans—6 percent of the population—still lack access to fixed broadband service at threshold speeds.  In rural areas, nearly one-fourth of the population —14.5 million people—lack access to this service.  In tribal areas, nearly one-third of the population lacks access. *Even in areas where broadband is available, approximately 100 million Americans still do not subscribe.* The report concludes that until the Commission’s Connect America reforms are fully implemented, these gaps are unlikely to close. Because millions still lack access to or have not adopted broadband, the Report concludes broadband is not yet being deployed in a reasonable and timely fashion."_
> 
> ...



Yup, the US of A is massively behind connecting its people.  Meanwhile, other countries move forward and ahead.  Not sure what more to say.  We have the means but lack the will.
Be safe, be well,
Tom Bitonti


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## Aeson (May 12, 2020)

Eltab said:


> The school-at-home infrastructure may not be as expensive as it first looks.  Many middle- and high- school students already have their own cell phones.  Use that as the home-end connection for the student wireless network.  The problem of "can this gear talk to each other?" has been solved already.



I think what he's talking about is using the phone as a hot spot. That's a good short term solution for some.

The plan I'm on limits the data for a hot spot. I wouldn't be able to use it that way but maybe others could. The providers could even create a plan tailored to it.


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## The Green Hermit (May 12, 2020)

Umbran said:


> It isn't that simple, at all.  Because the roads are owned by the states and communities in which they live.  Our digital infrastructure, on the other hand, is based on some very complicated leasing arrangements with various companies that provide internet services.  Government(s) cant' just put people on it, because they don't own it.
> 
> And, more importantly - put up all the wire you want, you still need a service at the end of that wire, and the ISPs are not running those services for free.  Also note that the FCC has stepped back from governing ISPs like common utilities, so the public cannot mandate their policies.



But that is one thing that needs to change. Internet NEEDS to be reclassified as a common utility.


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## Eltab (May 12, 2020)

The Green Hermit said:


> But that is one thing that needs to change. Internet NEEDS to be reclassified as a common utility.



Since the Internet is a source of information, should the guidelines for public libraries be used as a starting point for possible regulations?


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## The Green Hermit (May 12, 2020)

Eltab said:


> Since the Internet is a source of information, should the guidelines for public libraries be used as a starting point for possible regulations?



No, because our public libraries are in constant threat of being shut down -- at least in rural areas.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 13, 2020)

The Green Hermit said:


> But that is one thing that needs to change. Internet NEEDS to be reclassified as a common utility.



I believe that was part of Sanders’ platform.

And I can’t help but think society might move in that direction- slooowly- if Covid-19 proves to be particularly thorny.


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## Umbran (May 13, 2020)

Eltab said:


> Since the Internet is a source of information, should the guidelines for public libraries be used as a starting point for possible regulations?




Technically, the internet is not a _source_ of information.  It is a _delivery method_ for information.


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## Ryujin (May 13, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Technically, the internet is not a _source_ of information.  It is a _delivery method_ for information.




"_The medium is the message_." - Marshall McLuhan


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## Umbran (May 13, 2020)

Ryujin said:


> "_The medium is the message_." - Marshall McLuhan


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 13, 2020)

Umbran said:


> View attachment 121966



Can confirm- this checks out.


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## Ryujin (May 13, 2020)

Umbran said:


> View attachment 121966




Which is precisely the issue.


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