# HUGE Doctor Who news coming tonight! [Spoilers]



## Morrus (Jun 1, 2013)

At least, according to Bleeding Cool:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06...coming-tonight-and-heres-what-we-think-it-is/



> The BBC have sent out an embargoed press release stuffed with big _Doctor Who_  news. I didn’t get it so I don’t know what it contains. On the other  hand, I’m not under embargo. I don’t mind keeping embargoes at all, but  when I’m not under one… well, then I’ not going to follow somebody  else’s.
> 
> So I can tell you what I’ve been hearing for a little while now.
> 
> ...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 1, 2013)

Its clearly going to be one of the guys on Top Gear (James May would be perfect, but a tad mature, so...Richard Hammond?) or Irdis Elba.  I mean, who else could it be?


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## Umbran (Jun 1, 2013)

Thing is, Matt Smith has said that he starts filming on Series 8 in December or January.  

Anyone know the production time lag on Doctor Who?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 1, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Anyone know the production time lag on Doctor Who?




There's a timey-wimey joke in there somewhere....


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## Morrus (Jun 1, 2013)

I've always wanted Paterson Joseph.  And not just because he has a first name for a last name and a last name for a first name! 

Other than that, I'd just like to see someone in their 40s with a bit of gravity. Maybe someone ginger.


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## pedr (Jun 1, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Other than that, I'd just like to see someone in their 40s with a bit of gravity. Maybe someone ginger.



Simon Pegg?


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## Will Doyle (Jun 1, 2013)

One of the blogs I follow suggested Bill Bailey as the next doctor. I was initially skeptical, but now I can't think of anyone better.


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## Morrus (Jun 1, 2013)

Will Doyle said:


> One of the blogs I follow suggested Bill Bailey as the next doctor. I was initially skeptical, but now I can't think of anyone better.




I really doubt it!

I heard a rumour about a Ben somebody whose name I forget. Ginger. In some cop show I think. I hadn't heard of him.


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## pedr (Jun 1, 2013)

Morrus said:


> I really doubt it!
> 
> I heard a rumour about a Ben somebody whose name I forget. Ginger. In some cop show I think. I hadn't heard of him.



Ben Daniels, the prosecutor from Law and Order UK? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0199842/

Edit: he was also the English photographer Francis Urquart's wife was friends with in the Netflix House of Cards. Not sure if he's _ginger_, per se.


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## Morrus (Jun 1, 2013)

pedr said:


> Ben Daniels, the prosecutor from Law and Order UK? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0199842/




That was it!


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## pedr (Jun 1, 2013)

Morrus said:


> That was it!




It continues the incestuousness of British TV, if it's true, of course - his junior is played by Freema 'Martha Jones' Agyeman.

Also if Wikipedia is to be believed, Patterson Joseph is unlikely, as he's about to play the Detective Inspector in the next season of Law and Order: UK


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## Will Doyle (Jun 1, 2013)

I've heard Ben Wishaw suggested a few times. I hope not, I'd also like to see an older Doctor. Really, I think the series needs a shake up.


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## Umbran (Jun 1, 2013)

I heard the next Doctor was going to be played by a giant chicken!


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 1, 2013)

Eddie Izzard? That was Tom Baker's suggestion about 20 years ago.


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## El Mahdi (Jun 1, 2013)

deleted


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 2, 2013)

I actually hope this is all false, and it blows up in "Bleeding Cool"'s face. I find most of these "insiders" very annoying and self important.
And yes, that's coming from me! talk about pot&kettle.

Granted, I'd like to see Matt Smith continue as The Doctor with Moffat retiring, but that's another matter.


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## jonesy (Jun 2, 2013)

Joanna Lumley as the new doctor.


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## Bedrockgames (Jun 2, 2013)

I dont know enough UK actors to hazard a guess on this, but I hope they find a good replacement.


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## Bagpuss (Jun 2, 2013)

Matt Smith pretty much came out of now where, even the first two didn't seem like obvious choices at the time, so I don't think knowing UK actors is giving much of an advantage to guessing.

I've come to trust the people in charge of casting to make a good choice.


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## Umbran (Jun 2, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> I actually hope this is all false...




It isn't false.  The BBC has confirmed it - Matt Smith will be leaving.  He regenerates 



Spoiler



in the Christmas Special


, apparently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22741493


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## delericho (Jun 2, 2013)

My instinctive reaction to this was "but he's only just got here!" But it turns out that 4 years is about par for the course - Tom Baker was very much the exception with his long tenure.

I'm sure they'll find someone good for the role. Or, rather, I'm sure they've found someone good for the role.


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## Morrus (Jun 2, 2013)

It made the news.

[video=youtube;O6fVLODAJ5A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O6fVLODAJ5A[/video]


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## Morrus (Jun 3, 2013)

Here's Bleeding Cool's thoughts on the new Doctor. They think the role was cast in January.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/02/who-will-be-the-thirteenth-doctor/


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## Bagpuss (Jun 3, 2013)

Part way through the last episode I thought the 12th was going to die and possibly not even regenerate.


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## Morrus (Jun 3, 2013)

Bagpuss said:


> Part way through the last episode I thought the 12th was going to die and possibly not even regenerate.




What, and end one of the BBC's cash cows?


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## Umbran (Jun 3, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Here's Bleeding Cool's thoughts on the new Doctor. They think the role was cast in January.




They don't mention why they think that.  It would seem to me that casting a full year ahead of time is a little weird.  Too many things happen could happen or in the year between the commitment and beginning the work - that's enough time for them to fall in love, get married, and have a kid, for example.


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## Morrus (Jun 3, 2013)

Umbran said:


> They don't mention why they think that.




True.  They did call Matt Smith before it was announced, though.



> It would seem to me that casting a full year ahead of time is a little weird.  Too many things happen could happen or in the year between the commitment and beginning the work - that's enough time for them to fall in love, get married, and have a kid, for example.




I think that's pretty normal.  Matt Smith was about a year.  (Announced Jan 2009; short regeneration scene in New Year Special 2010; first ep at Easter 2010).  It gives them time to wrap stuff up - both the show itself, and the new actor's commitments (especially if they're currently in a show which they have to leave); then they have to film the regeneration, which presumably will take place in the Xmas special, but is probably filming very soon.


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## Bagpuss (Jun 3, 2013)

Morrus said:


> What, and end one of the BBC's cash cows?




No but leave him dead/missing as a cliff hanger for the film, rather than mostly resolve stuff.


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## Umbran (Jun 3, 2013)

Morrus said:


> True.  They did call Matt Smith before it was announced, though.




Yes, but being right once doesn't solidly establish a pattern.  



> I think that's pretty normal.




I suppose I'm just more used to hearing that casting decisions are made only a few months before filming begins.   Heck, most of the time (at least for American TV), there's not a whole lot of confidence that the show will still be around a year ahead of time.


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## Morrus (Jun 3, 2013)

Umbran said:


> I suppose I'm just more used to hearing that casting decisions are made only a few months before filming begins.   Heck, most of the time (at least for American TV), there's not a whole lot of confidence that the show will still be around a year ahead of time.




And bear in mind that those 16 months between Smith's announcement and his first episode were just from the announcement, not from when he was cast, which was therefore presumably sometime late in 2008).  So we're probably talking a good 18+ months.  Different environment, I guess.  And the BBC works differently to most broadcasters (and is funded differently). I don't really know how or why it's like that (I'm sure someone who works in broadcasting would know).  They always film an entire series (of anything over here, not just Who) before showing the first one, unless it has live elements like a reality or topical panel/quiz show.


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## Herschel (Jun 3, 2013)

I was rather bummed to hear the news, thinking Smith was good for at least one more season, hoping he'd go around 6. That said, he's starting to get film roles now and he may think this is the way to go.

I think Ben Daniels would be good, Jack Davenport would be an interesting choice, Ben Miles might also if they want to go a little older with the role without going truly patrician. Richard Madden is now available, though it would be tough for him to remain spoiler-free if he were actually in the lead role. 

Andrew Lincoln, Harry Lloyd, Charles Mesure and Damian Lewis would also be interesting choices, though I'm not particularly fond of that idea. James Nesbitt would be awesome, and completely unlikely.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 3, 2013)

I'd like to see Richard Coyle take a spin at the helm of the T.A.R.D.I.S.

And/or a spinoff show- lets call it "Legends of the Time Lords", here- in which each episode or short story arc features a different actor as a Gallifreyan having some kind of adventure in time & space.

Good OR Evil.


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## Umbran (Jun 3, 2013)

Herschel said:


> I was rather bummed to hear the news, thinking Smith was good for at least one more season, hoping he'd go around 6. That said, he's starting to get film roles now and he may think this is the way to go.




The guy is 30 years old, has made a name for himself on Doctor Who. He's probably moving into the prime of his acting career.  It is quite reasonable to not be pinned down to such an iconic role that can get him typecast too much in the future.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 3, 2013)

...or the past.


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## Herschel (Jun 3, 2013)

Matt Smith to play the Scarecrow in MGM's "Wizard of Oz" and the lead in "Nosferatu"?


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## RangerWickett (Jun 4, 2013)

Let's just be heretical. Kill off the Doctor for good, and have someone take up the mantle of his name without actually being a time lord.

Oh, and since I assume they won't do that . . . can they at least make him a ginger?


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## Orius (Jun 4, 2013)

Morrus said:


> What, and end one of the BBC's cash cows?




Aren't they getting close to the end of this cash cow?  I don't follow Who very closely, but from what I understand, Time Lords can only regenerate 13 times, and we're up to what, the 11th Doctor or something?


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 4, 2013)

12 times. 13 bodies/actors.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jun 4, 2013)

Orius said:


> Aren't they getting close to the end of this cash cow?  I don't follow Who very closely, but from what I understand, Time Lords can only regenerate 13 times, and we're up to what, the 11th Doctor or something?




That rule may no longer apply.


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## Morrus (Jun 4, 2013)

Orius said:


> Aren't they getting close to the end of this cash cow?  I don't follow Who very closely, but from what I understand, Time Lords can only regenerate 13 times, and we're up to what, the 11th Doctor or something?




That was a rule imposed by the Time Lords (they also offered the Master a whole new set of regenerations) who aren't around any more. They're not going to cancel a show because of a throwaway line in an episode 30 years ago when it can be changed with another simple throwaway line. Besides, he's already said (in a Sarah Jane Adventures ep) that he can now regenerate 504 times.


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## Morrus (Jun 4, 2013)

Radio Times has this to say:



> The new Doctor could be handed the keys to the TARDIS as  early as next month, BBC sources have confirmed - with insiders  suggesting Matt Smith’s replacement needs to be announced before the Doctor Who Christmas special begins filming next month.
> 
> 
> The Twelfth Doctor is expected to first appear on screen at the end of the Christmas special, following the regeneration of Matt Smith’s Doctor.
> ...


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## Herschel (Jun 4, 2013)

Mangan would have been interesting, though I felt he was a bit young to be playing Dirk Gently and probably also to play The Doctor. Smith pulled off the "oldness" better than I would have imagined though so who's to say Mangan wouldn't have.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 4, 2013)

Dirk Gently was a badly recycled City of Death mixed with Shada.
The Master was offered more regenerations because he was inhabiting a Traken body (Tremas, father of Nyssa) rather than his original Timelord body.

Rule of 12 regenerations was repeated several times since first mentioned in THe Deadly Assassin, including during Trial of a Timelord. Has also been mentioned often in the Big Finish Audio Dramas, which have been a source of many New Who plots.


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## Raunalyn (Jun 4, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> Rule of 12 regenerations was repeated several times since first mentioned in THe Deadly Assassin, including during Trial of a Timelord. Has also been mentioned often in the Big Finish Audio Dramas, which have been a source of many New Who plots.




Not entirely sure that applies to The Doctor anymore, though. Think about it...he's now stepped into his own timestream, and he's met Dr. Hurt (John Hurt). If John Hurt is an incarnation of The Doctor (and all evidence points to "Yes"), then that means that Smith is the 12th doctor, doesn't it?


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## Mark CMG (Jun 4, 2013)

They need a grittier, charnal Doctor like Ray Stevenson.  He could be the undead 13th Doctor of death, the Time Lich.


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## Herschel (Jun 4, 2013)

What would almost be fun is to see Clara be the central figure for a couple of episodes, having adventures with Smith, Tennant and McGann interspersed with insertions of other Doctors. 

Carol Ann Ford and her kids (Grandkids?) might also be interesting to see make an appearance (though doubtful for the 50th)


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 4, 2013)

Raunalyn said:


> Not entirely sure that applies to The Doctor anymore, though. Think about it...he's now stepped into his own timestream, and he's met Dr. Hurt (John Hurt). If John Hurt is an incarnation of The Doctor (and all evidence points to "Yes"), then that means that Smith is the 12th doctor, doesn't it?



yeah, I'm about a season behind, so I don't know what you're talking about.
They should get Michal Jayston for the 13th. 

Or they can just claim that River Song gave him her 9 remaining regenerations, and he only used 1 to return to life. (what a horrible episode that was)


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## Herschel (Jun 4, 2013)

I was not a fan of "Lets Kill Hitler" upon first watching but have to say it has really grown on me. The line about where River was going stands as one of the best ever.


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## Mark CMG (Jun 5, 2013)

Does this seem legit?

http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2013/06...-the-12th-doctor-who-pic/#jHKVTwkvCFtcbAZj.01


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## delericho (Jun 5, 2013)

It would be trivially easy for the show to handwave away the "twelve regenerations" thing. Indeed, they could simply ignore it and move on - the new series seems to be free to use anything from the old continuity it likes while simultaneously discarding anything it doesn't like.

But my question is this: _why on Earth would they want to?_

There's huge dramatic potential inherent in the Doctor nearing his last regeneration - amongst other things, he knows that at some point he's going to become the Valeyard, someone he really doesn't want to be. But there's other stories there - how does he face his impending death? What if, confronted with the horrors of the "lost incarnation", or the atrocities perpetrated by the Valeyard, or whatever, the 'last' Doctor decides he doesn't want to go on, and starts actively seeking his death? Conversely, what if that 'last' Doctor decides he does want to go on - what to lengths will he go to acquire a new regeneration cycle?

There's got to be a story there, and it's something they've never really done before (which, after 50 years, is saying something). IMO, they would be mad to just handwave it away or ignore it - far better to tell the story.


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## Morrus (Jun 5, 2013)

delericho said:


> It would be trivially easy for the show to handwave away the "twelve regenerations" thing. Indeed, they could simply ignore it and move on - the new series seems to be free to use anything from the old continuity it likes while simultaneously discarding anything it doesn't like.
> 
> But my question is this: _why on Earth would they want to?_
> 
> ...




I'm not convinced there is dramatic potential - unless the viewer really did believe that the BBC was going to cancel the entire show.  The viewer knows they won't do that, do there's no real tension.  We know it's not the end.


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## delericho (Jun 5, 2013)

Morrus said:


> I'm not convinced there is dramatic potential - unless the viewer really did believe that the BBC was going to cancel the entire show.  The viewer knows they won't do that, do there's no real tension.  We know it's not the end.




Surely the same is true of every Batman film and every Bond film, and for the same reason? And, in fact, almost all films and TV everywhere - the death of the lead character is incredibly rare.


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## Umbran (Jun 5, 2013)

delericho said:


> But my question is this: _why on Earth would they want to?_




Because the "what do I do as I near my death" is apt to come across as hackneyed?



> There's huge dramatic potential inherent in the Doctor nearing his last regeneration - amongst other things, he knows that at some point he's going to become the Valeyard




Except that so long as the Time Lock is in place, that future isn't going to happen.  Indications are that, should the Time Lords get out, becoming the Valeyard will not be the biggest issue on the Doctor's plate.



> But there's other stories there - how does he face his impending death?




Since the BBC is hardly going to cancel a popular show, we know he *isn't* facing his death, though.  The meta-issue reduces that plot to mud, I'm afraid.


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## Morrus (Jun 5, 2013)

delericho said:


> Surely the same is true of every Batman film and every Bond film, and for the same reason? And, in fact, almost all films and TV everywhere - the death of the lead character is incredibly rare.




Exactly.  That's why all those Batman and Bond films don't tend to hinge the very plot around the main character's death.  Because there would be very little suspense.  They hinge the plot around other things.


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## Morrus (Jun 5, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Because the "what do I do as I near my death" is apt to come across as hackneyed?




They kind of explored that with Tennant's last year.  He knew it was coming; the "four knocks" and all that.  It was just a regeneration, not a full death, but that technicality aside, the themes were similar..


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## Umbran (Jun 5, 2013)

Morrus said:


> They kind of explored that with Tennant's last year.  He knew it was coming; the "four knocks" and all that.  It was just a regeneration, not a full death, but that technicality aside, the themes were similar..




Yep.  And it made his last line wonderfully poignant.  

But now that one's been done.


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## Herschel (Jun 5, 2013)

The diner schene with Wilf was great and yeah, why try to top it when it won't add anything. 

I had a weird dream last night that Lee Pace was named the new Doctor and actually pulled off a tremendous Brit accent. He was chosen over Marton Csokas, Jamie Bamber and Domnhall Gleeson.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 5, 2013)

Also, the Valeyard was a distillation of the Doctor's dark aspects that built up, not an actual future version. The High Council promised to give him the rest of the Doctor's regenerations.
In the Big Finish story, The Wormery, a future aspect of another Time Lord attempts to steal the regenerations of a past self as part of a larger plot of universal domination.


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## Orius (Jun 5, 2013)

Morrus said:


> That was a rule imposed by the Time Lords (they also offered the Master a whole new set of regenerations) who aren't around any more. They're not going to cancel a show because of a throwaway line in an episode 30 years ago when it can be changed with another simple throwaway line. Besides, he's already said (in a Sarah Jane Adventures ep) that he can now regenerate 504 times.




Like I said, I don't follow Who very closely; the local PBS station used to air the classic show on and off in the past but not on a regular basis, and the current stuff is imported on cable which is quite frankly a waste of money.  But anyway, it sees like they've already addressed that possiblity too.  Plus, I understand the Queen's a fan, and they probably don't want to upset her by cancelling the show again.


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## Morrus (Jun 5, 2013)

Orius said:


> Plus, I understand the Queen's a fan




Really? Is that a scoop?


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## Herschel (Jun 5, 2013)

Maybe the current 'Liz is (and 10 too) but apparently a few of the previous one's weren't.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 6, 2013)

The Corgis love the sound of the T.A.R.D.I.S.


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## Umbran (Jun 6, 2013)

Neil Gaiman (who isn't really an authority, except for the fact that the man knows how to tell a story) had this to say about casting the Doctor:



			
				Neil Gaiman said:
			
		

> ...from Neil Gaiman's Tumblr...
> 
> ...I actually like it when The Doctor is a relatively unknown actor, or one without one huge role that made them famous. A star, like Sir Ian, brings all the other roles they’ve ever played to the table when they act. Seeing John Hurt as the (Spoiler) at the end of the Name of the Doctor, meant that this was a certain type of part with a certain amount of gravitas, and you understood that John Hurt was bringing everything with it (including being John Hurt), just as Derek Jacobi did as the Master.
> 
> ...




Which, I think, has a lot of wisdom in it.  Plus, I'd prefer to see it go to someone for whom it could make their career, rather than be just one more stop on the way.


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## Kaodi (Jun 6, 2013)

Chiwetel Ejiofor?


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## Fast Learner (Jun 6, 2013)

I think Mangan could be amazing. I can very much see him as a great Doctor.


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## jonesy (Jun 6, 2013)

Kaodi said:


> Chiwetel Ejiofor?



The assassin in Serenity. He's done a lot of sideline roles, although he was the main actor in The Shadow Line (which I think was one of the best shows of 2011).


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## dark2112 (Jun 6, 2013)

Orius said:


> Plus, I understand the Queen's a fan, and they probably don't want to upset her by cancelling the show again.




IIRC, wasn't the last cancelling more to do with contractual issues and an attempt to get outside funding from major US networks than with an actual lack of ratings?


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## delericho (Jun 6, 2013)

dark2112 said:


> IIRC, wasn't the last cancelling more to do with contractual issues and an attempt to get outside funding from major US networks than with an actual lack of ratings?




Ah... I actually read the book "Doctor Who: Regeneration" a few weeks back, which is more or less a making-of the Paul McGann movie. (I don't really recommend it, btw, though the first chapter was interesting.)

Anyway, the first chapter delved into the cancellation of the old series in some length. Basically, there was a perfect storm of events - the BBC were under political pressure to spend less on home-grown shows, most of the creative team were nearing the end of their contracts and wanted out, many of the fans wanted the creative team out (to the extent that they would boycott the show and see it axed rather than continue with that team). And then the BBC started getting queries about the possibility of rebooting for an American audience. So, keen to follow up that possibility, they allowed any development for the next (27th?) series slide, until eventually it was too late.

In all honesty, the cancellation might well have been a good thing. A lot of the Sylvester McCoy stories really feel quite tired. And it was just before CGI changed the nature of SFX on TV. The BBC would soon have found themselves in a position where they could either spend a fortune on 'good' effects, or end up with a show that just looked awful, especially against ST:TNG and (a few years later) Babylon 5. The probably wouldn't have been able to spend the money... but probably couldn't afford not to, either.

So in some ways, the break was probably a good thing - it allowed a new team of talented people to come together, it allowed a fresh new approach - and it also allowed the SFX technology to advance to a point where it could be done on a TV budget without looking really bad.


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## jcayer (Jun 6, 2013)

Someone already said it, but the Valeyard is, "an amalgamation of the darker side of the Doctor's nature"  As I read that, it doesn't even say it's the Doctor.  Just part of his darker side.  Perhaps something that's split off at some point....or cloned off.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Valeyard


As for the regeneration limit:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/oct/12/doctor-who-immortal-reveals-bbc
Looks like they've removed it.  I would have much rather scene a clip/episode/series where he finds a way to gain additional regenerations.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 6, 2013)

A little more on the cancellation:
Producer John Nathan Turner had built his career around Doctor Who. At the time, even though he was badly burned out, he couldn't leave. The BBC couldn't get him to leave without offering him something else, and there was nothing to offer him.
The change in format from 24 episodes to 14 played havoc with the 4-story arc model. As a result, many stories that should have been 4 episodes were cut down to 3, with critical information/exposition ending up on the cutting room floor, where it did no one any good. (Greatest Show in the Galaxy (worst classic who ever) and Ghostlight are prime examples). Many of the episodes were written by very junior or brand new writers, so the quality wasn't always there. (One episode was only the second TV script the writer had ever done, and the other script was for a Medical Soap Opera.)

Sadly, many people blame Sylvester McCoy for ending the show, or ruining it, when the problems were well outside the actors' control. I though he established his Doctor very well, and has proved through Big Finish Productions that he was more than capable.

And then there's budget. The BBC was incredibly cheap. That the effects for Doctor Who were as good as they were is a testimony to the sheer brilliance of the people working for their FX department. Even so, it was still hideously expensive. Sadly, when there was a sudden reduction in cost of making those effects through improved technology, the show had already been cancelled, and the BBC bureaucracy didn't want to overcome the inertia to restart the show.

Internal BBC politics also played a role.
Rent the DVD for Survival if you don't own it already. Not a great episode (best parts of the script on the cutting room floor again), but the special features are very helpful in having different people explain what was going on as they saw it. In the end, I think it was all of the factors described.

I think it was particularly sad the John Nathan Turner was offered a show called Bergerac, and said he'd only take it over if he could recast the main actor and move the show to somewhere other than the island of Jersey. (For those that don't know it/haven't seen it, that's 95% of the show he wanted to change.)

And, as I've mentioned it several times, Big Finish Productions is a company that really restarted Doctor Who about 5 years before RTD. Most of the stories are good to extremely good. There are some meh products as well, but for the most part, the company has risen above the challenge. Many of the best and more popular episodes of NuWho come directly from BFP's scripts. In fact, a lot of staff for NuWho also come from BFP. Small world.


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## Kaodi (Jun 6, 2013)

jonesy said:


> The assassin in Serenity. He's done a lot of sideline roles, although he was the main actor in The Shadow Line (which I think was one of the best shows of 2011).




My bad. The question was not "Who is?" but rather "Why not?"


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## Mark CMG (Jun 10, 2013)

News? - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cel...James-Bond-star-to-be-its-new-Doctor-Who.html


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## Morrus (Jun 10, 2013)

Mark CMG said:


> News? - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cel...James-Bond-star-to-be-its-new-Doctor-Who.html




The news cycle moves faster than that!  That's _so_ yesterday! Since denied! 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/09/rory-kinnear-is-sick-of-these-doctor-who-rumours/


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## Mark CMG (Jun 10, 2013)

Morrus said:


> The news cycle moves faster than that!  That's _so_ yesterday! Since denied!
> 
> http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/09/rory-kinnear-is-sick-of-these-doctor-who-rumours/





Didn't see either of those links here.  Sorry for posting it again.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 10, 2013)

I can officially deny that I have been offered the role...


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## Morrus (Jun 10, 2013)

I've been offered the role.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 10, 2013)

Sure it wasn't a Dr Who *roll*?

Or a hot cross bun?


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## Herschel (Jun 10, 2013)

The Twelfth Doctor will be played by none other than Rick Astley. 

That's right, from Rocking The Tardis to Rick-Rolling all of time and space.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 10, 2013)

I can already hear him telling Clara- in peril again- that he is never gonna give her up, never gonna let her down, never gonna run around and desert her...never gonna make her cry, never gonna say goodbye, never gonna tell a lie and hurt her.


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## Herschel (Jun 10, 2013)

See, the perfect casting choice.


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## RangerWickett (Jun 10, 2013)

Morrus said:


> I've been offered the role.




It would be nice to see a scruffy Doctor who pauses from saving the world to have a pint.


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## Morrus (Jun 10, 2013)

RangerWickett said:


> It would be nice to see a scruffy Doctor who pauses from saving the world to have a pint.




Scruffy?!?!


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## Umbran (Jun 10, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Scruffy?!?!




Scruffy?!?  Like, the janitor for Planet Express!  That explains *soooooo* much if he's the Doctor!


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## Morrus (Jun 10, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Scruffy?!?  Like, the janitor for Planet Express!  That explains *soooooo* much if he's the Doctor!




My self esteem just hit the floor.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 11, 2013)

Zoidberg will get it.


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## Umbran (Jun 11, 2013)

Someone now needs to make a t-shirt: "Zoidberg ate my ego."


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## RangerWickett (Jun 11, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Scruffy?!?!




Mind you, I tend to see you when you're exhausted from international flights and dealing with minimal sleep at Gen Con.


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## Herschel (Jun 11, 2013)

RangerWickett said:


> It would be nice to see a scruffy Doctor who pauses from saving the world to have a pint.




Only if there's an early scene of him herding nerfs with a princess looking on. Was not Matt Smith the first Doctor to be seen with a beard, even though it was only two scenes?


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## Richards (Jun 11, 2013)

Nope - Tom Baker was prematurely aged for a scene or two in "The Leisure Hive," complete with lengthy white beard.

Johnathan


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 14, 2013)

I hear a bunch of lost classic episodes were found by the BBC somewhere in Africa. Any confirmation? Any idea what episodes/stories were found?


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## Herschel (Jun 14, 2013)

It seems weird to me that we haven't heard more about them. FWIW Amazon has "The Tenth Planet", "The Ice Warriors"(39) and "Moonbase"(33) and others listed for pre-order, but no release date yet. Amazon UK has "Doctor Who: Regeneration" which is a box set of all the regeneration stories, including "The Tenth Planet", with a release date of June 24th listed.  However, the box set also lists that animation was used to complete that particular story with surviving sequences where they remain.


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## Umbran (Jun 14, 2013)

Herschel said:


> It seems weird to me that we haven't heard more about them.




It doesn't seem weird to me.  Assume that the thing leaked before the BBC was really ready to announce.  Someone (or, really, many someones) have to watch the episodes, probably remaster, edit, create commentaries, document, and otherwise beat into shape some tapes that have been sitting in someone's closet suffering bitrot for decades.

That's kind of a big job.  If I were them, I'd like to have a really good picture of how much work there is to do, and what's actually going to be done, before opening my mouth.  

That's if they even exist. The BBC has neither confirmed nor denied anything about them.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 14, 2013)

I was thinking that the planned releases were going to have animation replacing the lost video, as with Reign of Terror and The Invasion.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 14, 2013)

More info Here.


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## Umbran (Jun 15, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> I was thinking that the planned releases were going to have animation replacing the lost video, as with Reign of Terror and The Invasion.




I had heard that, for use in bits where they still had the audio, but the video had been degraded.  But given how many of the actors have passed on, I don't know how viable it woudl be to replace large sections with new animated video and new voice acting.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 15, 2013)

A big source of audio for some lost stories has been fan-made recordings from their home TV sets. Sound was cleaned up, and then preserved.


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## CAFRedblade (Jun 18, 2013)

Looks like BleedingCool has an update, and that it's looking like a complete hoax: 
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/17/more-on-those-missing-doctor-who-episodes-or-less/
Who knows, perhaps someone out there has stored copies stashed and forgotten, but it's looking like the source of this rumour is leading down the wrong track.


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## Umbran (Jun 18, 2013)

It was nice to dream for a while though, wasn't it?


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 18, 2013)

I would love to spend some quality time with the person who perpetrated this rumor, expressing myself in a meaningful way, as a warning to the next 10 generations, that sometimes that 15 minutes of fame comes at too high a price.


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## CAFRedblade (Jun 19, 2013)

And things pick back up... wow, what a roller coaster: 
http://io9.com/maybe-those-doctor-who-missing-episodes-rumors-are-true-514194463

Seems like a former BBC archivist, or at least someone who saved many previous Dr. Who tapes, has seen evidence at or around the BBC that confirms all the rumours...  doh, now my hopes have risen again..


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## Umbran (Jun 19, 2013)

Well, good grief.  Please, BBC, step up and say something already!


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 20, 2013)

I'll believe it when it is officially announced, and not sooner. I think the lack of announcement is rather telling.
Only reason I can think of for the delay is if they are planning some 50th anniversary publicity stunt.


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## Umbran (Jun 20, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> Only reason I can think of for the delay is if they are planning some 50th anniversary publicity stunt.




The other basic reason to delay is to review the material, gauge its quality, see what can be used, what can't, what needs restoration, and so on.  If it is such a huge batch, really going over it will take many hours.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 20, 2013)

Plus, how quickly can you review stuff through misting eyes and MST3K-type commentary?


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 20, 2013)

It all needs clean up an restoration. Simple.
Evaluating in general? Could be done 1-2 stories per day (not episodes, stories).
And why not announce the ones they have gone through? Even a single story would be amazing news. Even if the quality is horrible, just the notion that there is _something_ would be impressive.
So, either they got nothing, or there's the 50th anniversary stunt. Can anyone think of any other reason?

Sadly, it was not just Doctor Who that was destroyed--BBC destroyed almost ALL of their archives. Tons of recorded shows from the 50s, 60s, and 70s were lost.


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## Umbran (Jun 20, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> And why not announce the ones they have gone through?




Because, as a business, you want to keep your ducks in a row, and keep your message clear and simple.  I, personally, would prefer if they just officially said, "Yes, we have gotten some archival material, and we are in the process of evaluating it,"  and leave it at that.  I can understand, though, that they do not want to make a moving target out of the list of stuff they have.  Let them review, let them actually do the restoration, review again, and then tell us what is there.  The last thing they need is to promise things, and then not be able to deliver.



> Sadly, it was not just Doctor Who that was destroyed--BBC destroyed almost ALL of their archives. Tons of recorded shows from the 50s, 60s, and 70s were lost.




From a historical perspective, yes, it is sad.  But, honestly, I don't much care about the rest.

However, this may present another reason why they might delay in announcing things - initial rumors were that they had gotten a huge chunk of material, and Doctor Who was only part of the batch.  The term "three tons" was used.  If it was not cataloged properly before they got it, they may not know what they have, and may have to wade through all of it before they can say.  Then, it is more than just doing a focused review of Doctor Who serials.  If the collection is truly massive, the person-hours need to review and catalog becomes an issue.

And, honestly, from a business standpoint, holding off for the 50th makes about three tons of sense.  That's not a "stunt", that's just good marketing.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 20, 2013)

Marketing = stunts.
Given the rumors floating around, resolving the matter one way or another now would make more sense. Waiting is unnecessary.
There were other great shows mostly lost, including most of the first year of Callum.


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## Umbran (Jun 20, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> Marketing = stunts.




Waiting until the public's attention is on the matter without any action on your part is not a stunt.  It is making the best use of your resources.


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## Morrus (Jun 20, 2013)

It's all confirmed as a hoax.



> Film archivist Philip Morris of the Television International Enterprise Archive, who has spent decades travelling the world looking for… lets call it “insecure media”, has issued the following statement, regarding his believed involvement in the recovery of a large amount of missing Doctor Who episodes.
> 
> 
> Much of it is is capitals.
> ...





http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06...s-they-are-not-missing-but-destroyed-the-end/


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## Umbran (Jun 20, 2013)

Okay, so, because I like to pick nits...

What he says is they, "...do not hold any missing episodes...".

So, it could be that known copies of episodes could exist, but are not yet in their holdings!  So, for example, if there were negotiations going on as to the price to be paid for those copies? 



(Because letting it go is no fun.)


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## Morrus (Jun 20, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Okay, so, because I like to pick nits...
> 
> What he says is they, "...do not hold any missing episodes...".
> 
> ...




He's clearly a bit emotional (probably being right at the sharp end of the hoax) and imprecisely his language, but I think "They are not missing but destroyed. The end." is pretty clear.


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## Umbran (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh, I know, Morrus.  I just wanted to reserve the right to do the I Told You So Dance, just on the odd chance.


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## Janx (Jun 20, 2013)

Morrus said:


> http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06...s-they-are-not-missing-but-destroyed-the-end/




What I find more disappointiing is the destruction of data by an organization as large and presumably savvy as the BBC.

This would be like the Library of Congress deciding to wipe out all the stuff from before 1950, because it was old and not in print anymore.


the general rule of thumb for any entity that generates data/content is that you NEVER delete it.  The phone company should NEVER delete its records for phone calls.  The TV studio should never delete any episode it ever filmed.  The reason is because you NEVER know when it might be handy later, and the cost to retain it is not as much as you think when compared to the lost opportunity to use it later.

Obviously, this truism is trivially true for computerized data.  I may be obligated to hold onto medical records for 7 years, but hard disks are cheap and I can easily afford to hold everything for ever.

The BBC's decision to destroy all their old footage is monumentally stupid.  Sure, the stuff took up space.  And it wasn't feasible back then to convert it to a digital media.  But now that the tech has caught up, the opportunity is lost, all because of a lack of foresight and fortitude to protect a nation's cultural output.


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## Morrus (Jun 20, 2013)

Janx said:


> What I find more disappointiing is the destruction of data by an organization as large and presumably savvy as the BBC.




Everybody in the world - including the BBC - agrees with you.


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## Janx (Jun 20, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Everybody in the world - including the BBC - agrees with you.




Well, I'm sorry that those entrusted with the entire televised legacy of Brittain  have let your people down.

We like the stuff the BBC makes.  it'd be nice if they kept BBC America in better lockstep with whatever they do over there.

It seems here in America, that most studios seem to protect their filmed assets better.  I'm sure Danny can cite some examples where they failed (fire, somebody DID throw stuff out, etc), but in more cases I hear about studios restoring old classics and stuff.  Which means they retained them in the first place.


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## Umbran (Jun 20, 2013)

Janx said:


> The BBC's decision to destroy all their old footage is monumentally stupid.




*Was* stupid.  The decisions in question were made back in the 1960s and 1970s.  At the time, the material wasn't considered as part of "heritage".  They were just TV shows.  Entertainments.  Not something that really needed to be saved and archived.  The BBC didn't have central storage.  They only kept stuff they felt was useful for further economic gain.  Quite simply, it made sense at the time.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 21, 2013)

And the BBC wasn't alone- a lot of early TV and film was lost to the same processes, all over the world.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 21, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Waiting until the public's attention is on the matter without any action on your part is not a stunt.  It is making the best use of your resources.




The public's attention is Already on the topic!

Yes, the old BBC execs were a bit snooty in their attitude toward TV, seeming to think it was just a fad. Even this statement seems to repeat that attitude. "No Further Commercial Value"??? Sure, VCRs were not common household items, but that lack of foresight then coupled with poor choice of phrasing now...
Anyway.

Yes, items in the US are also lost. I heard that Warner Bros destroyed their "Bugs Bunny Roadrunner Show" intro footage, and MC skits, just keeping the actual cartoons.


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## Herschel (Jun 21, 2013)

Janx said:


> Well, I'm sorry that those entrusted with the entire televised legacy of Brittain have let your people down.




The same thing happened here, although from the opposite angle. Someone saved and then released the entire Dukes of Hazzard run on video.


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## Morrus (Jun 21, 2013)

Janx said:


> Well, I'm sorry that those entrusted with the entire televised legacy of Brittain  have let your people down.




It's hardly the entire televised legacy of Britain.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jun 21, 2013)

Herschel said:


> The same thing happened here, although from the opposite angle. Someone saved and then released the entire Dukes of Hazzard run on video.




Don't make me shoot you with a dynamite arrow! You better done leave them Duke boys alone.


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## Janx (Jun 21, 2013)

Morrus said:


> It's hardly the entire televised legacy of Britain.




I thought the BBC owned the airwaves over there.  Ain't legal for anybody else to broadcast.


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## Morrus (Jun 21, 2013)

Janx said:


> I thought the BBC owned the airwaves over there.  Ain't legal for anybody else to broadcast.




I'm afraid you've been _very_ misinformed!


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## Herschel (Jun 21, 2013)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Don't make me shoot you with a dynamite arrow! You better done leave them Duke boys alone.





Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the law since the day you were born?


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