# Wii - Smash Bros. Brawl



## Megaton (Feb 22, 2008)

Who else is excited for this?

I'm annoyed by some of the character movesets... I don't want to spoil who any of the secret characters are unless they're pretty much common knowledge here, though.

Melee was my favorite game of all-time, and this looks better, so should be fun. I'm interested in seeing how well online play goes, too.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Feb 22, 2008)

I require this game.

Require.

I've been paying far too much attention to all the details, the full roster, etc. The secret characters are great, the returning ones are, too, and so are the new guys.


----------



## Alzrius (Feb 22, 2008)

I've had this game reserved for months now. I eagerly watched all the updates before the game was released in Japan, and since then have tried to go dark so as to not be entirely spoiled before I even buy the game (it's only partially worked).

That said, I absolutely can't wait to have this game!


----------



## John Crichton (Feb 22, 2008)

Will eventually pick it up.  When I get a group together for a videogame night will influence that heavily.


----------



## Megaton (Feb 25, 2008)

Haha, I imagine you guys have been checking out the Dojo over the past couple of months. I still check the updates, but I've pretty much spoiled myself by researching every aspect of the game after I told myself I'd try to save some surprises. LOL @ my self control.

Have you picked a favorite character/main yet? I think I'm going to use Sonic a lot since he's fast and has great jumps.

I had hoped Capcom would have a rep like Megaman, but no luck. : /


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Feb 25, 2008)

I was never a big Megaman fan, so I'm okay without him. Though there are a ton of other Capcom characters I'd love to see. But its all good.

My main's probably going to be the same as always: Link. Not that I won't give all the others a good shot, but knowing me I'll keep defaulting to destroying my friends with Link and being hated for it.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Feb 25, 2008)

I may get this game even if I don't own a Wii.

SSBM was also my favorite game of all time, and I will be the ultimate Smash Bros player ever.


----------



## Megaton (Feb 25, 2008)

I like Link because he has a variety of projectiles to go with his sword's reach, but for some reason I just never got into him. I think it's because his smashes in Melee were multi-hit and didn't always get the big knockback.

That's my only concern with Sonic, a lack of projectiles and range.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Feb 25, 2008)

Obviously I'm pumped about Sonic.  I favored Shiek in my hayday, so I enjoy fast characters.

I'm also strangely excited about 



Spoiler



Starwolf


.  Can't say why, exactly, but it is what it is.  I'm not very excited about the other new characters.  But I'm sure they'll grow on me.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Feb 25, 2008)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> Obviously I'm pumped about Sonic.  I favored Shiek in my hayday, so I enjoy fast characters.
> 
> I'm also strangely excited about
> 
> ...



 [sblock]Excited about Starwolf?! Bah!

R.O.B. is in the game, he takes the cake for awesome secret character.[/sblock]


----------



## LightPhoenix (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm really excited for this game.  It's mostly about the online play.  My friends are all over the place, and it'll be nice to be able to play with them even though we're spread across the country.  I will not likely be playing people I don't know in person, but that may change.

I'm not a huge Star Fox fan, which is ironic because my character in SSB is Fox.  I'll likely be playing him.


----------



## Agamon (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm having a big Rock Band "Battle of the Bands" party that weekend.  Wouldn't it be nice to get my pre-ordered copy of Smash Bros to top it off?

Unfortunately, my pre-order is with EB, and EB doesn't always seem to believe in "release dates".  More like "release weeks" or "release fortnights".


----------



## Fallen Seraph (Feb 26, 2008)

I have been and always shall be a Samus player.

I am so glad though you can use Gamecube controllers as well since I want 4 player matches as soon as I buy it and I don't have enough wii controllers.


----------



## Agamon (Feb 29, 2008)

Fallen Seraph said:
			
		

> I have been and always shall be a Samus player.
> 
> I am so glad though you can use Gamecube controllers as well since I want 4 player matches as soon as I buy it and I don't have enough wii controllers.




I have so may controllers for current systems, I'm not sure what to do with them all.

4 wiimotes
2 nunchucks
1 classic controller
2 gamecube controllers

4 xbox 360 controllers
4 Scene It LCA controllers
1 Rock Band drum set
1 Rock Band guitar
1 Rock Band microphone
1 Guitar Hero III guitar

1 PC controller

  I need a much larger entertainment stand...


----------



## Asmor (Mar 10, 2008)

Agamon said:
			
		

> I have so may controllers for current systems, I'm not sure what to do with them all.
> 
> 4 wiimotes
> 2 nunchucks
> ...




Wow, that's scary how close it is to my own controller collection.

4 wiimotes
2 nunchuks
2 classic controllers
2 gamecube controllers, wired
1 wavebird
1 gamestop wireless gamecube controller, non-functional

4 Xbox 360 wireless controllers; 1 missing, 1 black, 1 w/messenger keyboard
1 DDR mat
1 Drum set
2 Guitars (1 Guitar Hero, 1 Rock Band)
1 Microphone
4 Scene-It controllers

And then of course all the assorted stuff for old systems which I don't play...

Back on topic, I picked up Brawl yesterday. Playing through the single-player campaign is interesting, though the last level is an ungodly nightmare (due to duration, not difficulty) and unlocks almost every character through play; the rest can be unlocked if you know where to find them, or through other means. Just unlocked my last character today before work.

I'm still undecided how I feel about this, but Brawl really does seem like Super Smash Brothers Melee with some new characters and stages. It really doesn't add much to the equation. On the flip side, it's still as fun as ever, and the new characters are what really matter, I s'pose.

I'll post my friends code when I get home (at work right now).


----------



## Asmor (Mar 10, 2008)

My brawl friend code: 4081 5177 5000


----------



## Arnwyn (Mar 11, 2008)

Can anyone tell me how different this game is from the N64 Super Smash Bros (ie. the very first one/original)?

I found that game to be the most wretched, hateful, and boring "fighting" game (well, most boring _any_ game) I've ever played. However, people keep saying that its sequel is very good, and thus this one is highly anticipated as well. I've never played the sequel, so I'm assuming it's reasonably different.

So, how different is this one from the original?


----------



## fba827 (Mar 11, 2008)

If you don't like fighting games in general then I doubt you'd like this new one since it is just that, a fighting game with heavy focus on the finishing moves (the smashes) as the goal.

Note: I do not have the game though I played it a couple times at a friend's house and also saw previews and interviews online to determine whether or not i would eventually buy it.  Nor have I played any of the previous titles in the series.

In one of the interviews (I believe it was a designer's video interview that can be found on ign.com) the designer makes a couple points about how it is very similar to previous versions with some minor clunky things removed and some new stuff (like new characters and scenes) put in as well as online capable play etc.  The designer also made several side-references (while answering other questions) about how the game was designed specifically with the goal of being inclusive for any newcomers to the series.

I have noticed among my friends the biggest draw is really the characters, everyone seem to like picking a character or two and latching on to them as their favorite so having such a large roster in this game helps everyone find their 'niche' for their fighting type.

When watching my friends (who are experienced with the series and also have more coordination for the controls) play, frankly it's fairly uninteresting after 5 minutes only because it looks like chaotic running around the screen.

When playing, I played a little slowly to get used to the controls, after being allowed to play slowly to give myself a chance to get the controls down, 

But basically, the focus is as a multiplayer fighting game.  A chance to socialize about beating each other.   The single player story mode thing got old REALY quick (so don't get this if you want a solo game experience - it's not really meant as that for the focus - just my opinion).


----------



## Asmor (Mar 11, 2008)

For what it's worth, I used to hate this game (Super Smash Bros in general, not Brawl specifically) because I thought myself a sort of fighting game "purist." I don't remember what made me decide to give Melee (the last one) a second chance or when I did, but I've loved it for a very long time.

It actually does have a surprising amount of depth, and a skilled player will defeat an unskilled one most of the time. Despite that, it is imminently accessible as the control scheme is relatively simple (in Brawl, one of the control schemes uses the wiimote, by itself, on the side; in other words, it could have theoretically been done on the NES controller!).

Ultimately, my advice is this: Play it. You're already an RPG player, which theoretically skews your circle of acquaintances in a particular direction... I'd be highly skeptical if you don't know anyone that has Melee or Brawl. If you don't... rent it.

As has been said, it's a multiplayer game at heart. The online component's nice, but if you can't get people over to your place to play it with you on a semi-regular basis it may not be worth the money.


----------



## Arnwyn (Mar 11, 2008)

fba827 said:
			
		

> If you don't like fighting games in general then I doubt you'd like this new one since it is just that, a fighting game with heavy focus on the finishing moves (the smashes) as the goal.



Actually, I'm a reasonably big fan of fighting games (played SF and MK for years, with a little less Tekken - nowadays I particularly love SoulCalibur and DOA) - which is _why_ I despised the (N64) Smash Bros.



			
				Asmor said:
			
		

> It actually does have a surprising amount of depth, and a skilled player will defeat an unskilled one most of the time.



Ah, so there _is_ a big difference between this new one and the N64 one, as this certainly wasn't the case in the past. My friend's wife insisted I play it with her (as everyone else wouldn't because of how boring it was) and she played it a lot and would be considered "skilled" - and I still won more often than not just by randomly mashing buttons. Sad. Good to hear that's different.



> I'd be highly skeptical if you don't know anyone that has Melee or Brawl.



They're all Wii (and Nintendo) haters. (I don't blame them, actually.)

Thanks for the info, guys!


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 11, 2008)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Ah, so there _is_ a big difference between this new one and the N64 one, as this certainly wasn't the case in the past. My friend's wife insisted I play it with her (as everyone else wouldn't because of how boring it was) and she played it a lot and would be considered "skilled" - and I still won more often than not just by randomly mashing buttons. Sad. Good to hear that's different.



I never played the N64 version but I played the GC version a ton.  I thought I was pretty good until my friend came along and destroyed me match after match.  He had some considerable skill with his chosen characters and that sold me on the game not being just a button masher.

I still never matched his skill level but the game is much deeper than it looks.  Throw in all the stages and items and I must say it's one of the best games I've ever played.  Especially with 3 or more people in the room.  

I picked up Brawl over the weekend but haven't had time to play it yet...


----------



## A Passing Maniac (Mar 11, 2008)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Ah, so there _is_ a big difference between this new one and the N64 one, as this certainly wasn't the case in the past. My friend's wife insisted I play it with her (as everyone else wouldn't because of how boring it was) and she played it a lot and would be considered "skilled" - and I still won more often than not just by randomly mashing buttons. Sad. Good to hear that's different.



Then she wasn't really skilled; the Smash Bros. series has never been friendly to button mashers. Its learning curve is less steep than most fighting games, but a truly skilled player will never be beaten by a newbie, unless the match heavily utilizes the game's various items or takes place on a particularly dangerous stage.

The sequel, for instance, features a stage in which the players fight on top of various vehicles as they make their way around a high-speed racetrack, and falling off of one of the vehicles and onto the road will sweep most characters off the screen almost immediately. And, of course, there are items like the Bob-ombs... Which is why the tourney gamers only play the game with all items turned off, and only on the incredibly boring, completely flat, single-platform levels. (As for myself, the racetrack level is one of my favorites. )

But oh, how I wish I had a Wii!    I long to pummel my friends as Meta Knight.


----------



## Agamon (Mar 12, 2008)

A Passing Maniac said:
			
		

> But oh, how I wish I had a Wii!    I long to pummel my friends as Meta Knight.




Meta Knight is quite cool.  Zero-G Samus, not so much....


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Mar 12, 2008)

Agamon said:
			
		

> Meta Knight is quite cool.  Zero-G Samus, not so much....



 Lies!

Zero Suit Samus = Amazing. I can tear up with that whip. I'm actually surprised how good she is, as I really expected that to be much more of a throwaway character.

Also, Pit...awesome.


----------



## Asmor (Mar 12, 2008)

I think Olimar's surprisingly powerful... Particularly when you factor in that you'll probably be underestimated, at least the first few times.

Sonic seems to lack hitting power, but if you're playing a stock game where survival's more important his speed and maneuverability would be a huge boon.

My best character is Marth. My favorite is Pikachu, though my friends hate him because of the way I play him (which, I admit, is probably fairly annoying).


----------



## TwinBahamut (Mar 13, 2008)

The Super Smash Bros. series is easily the best fighting game series ever made, in my opinion. It is nice, simple, and incredibly fun.

I have a strong preference for the heavyweight, hard-hitting characters, and that preference carries over into Brawl. Ike is a great character and has instantly become a new favorite (in small part because I like his Fire Emblem games so much), Bowser is even stronger than he was in Melee (and contrary to the opinion of some, I thought Bowser was strong in that game), and 



Spoiler



Ganondorf


 is very good too. I also am a big fan of Zelda (but not Sheik), though the modified range on the sweet spot of her lightning kick (my favorite move) is throwing me for a loop.

Samus was another big favorite of mine from Melee, but I am not a very big fan of Zero Suit Samus, so I am a little uncertain about how much I will use her in the new game.

Also, the Subspace Emissary mode is a lot of fun, too. It really is a lot like the classic Kirby games, which is definitely a good thing.


----------



## Agamon (Mar 13, 2008)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Lies!
> 
> Zero Suit Samus = Amazing. I can tear up with that whip. I'm actually surprised how good she is, as I really expected that to be much more of a throwaway character.
> 
> Also, Pit...awesome.




Granted, I need to play the game some more, haven't had time to touch it since Sunday.


----------



## Agamon (Mar 13, 2008)

TwinBahamut said:
			
		

> The Super Smash Bros. series is easily the best fighting game series ever made, in my opinion.




*cough*SoulCalibur*cough*


----------



## Asmor (Mar 13, 2008)

TwinBahamut said:
			
		

> The Super Smash Bros. series is easily the best fighting game series ever made, in my opinion. It is nice, simple, and incredibly fun.




You know, I still only grudgingly accept that Smash Brothers might be categorized as a fighting game by some. Calling it the best fighting game series ever made really just makes me think you haven't played many fighting games (or, at least not seriously)...

Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, everyone's allowed their own opinion. I'm just stating that I disagree with yours.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Mar 13, 2008)

Best fighting game?

Nah. I'd give that to Capcom vs. SNK II. Bringing the best of both worlds together and just being AWESOME.

I mean, I love Smash, but its definitely a unique beast in the Fighting Game world that makes it hard to compare to anything else.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Mar 13, 2008)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Also, Pit...awesome.



Seconded.

I haven't played the game much so far, but I'm loving Pit. I just wish his B attacks were a bit more potent.

My first impressions: The game seems to be a slower game, meaning faster characters seem to have less of an advantage than they used to, and throws seem less powerful so far.


----------



## Felon (Mar 13, 2008)

Read all these posts, read the Wiki, heard the commercials on the radio, still no idea what the high level of excitement about this game stems from.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Mar 13, 2008)

So did anyone have to send in your Wii for "cleaning"?


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 14, 2008)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> So did anyone have to send in your Wii for "cleaning"?



 Nope, just popped it in just to check.  All is well.


----------



## TwinBahamut (Mar 14, 2008)

Asmor said:
			
		

> You know, I still only grudgingly accept that Smash Brothers might be categorized as a fighting game by some. Calling it the best fighting game series ever made really just makes me think you haven't played many fighting games (or, at least not seriously)...
> 
> Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, everyone's allowed their own opinion. I'm just stating that I disagree with yours.



I am fine with you disagreeing with me, but it is simply unfair to assume that my opinion is rooted in ignorance.

I have been playing the fighting game genre since I played Street Fighter 2: The World Warriors on my SNES, and I am currently a big fan of the Soul Calibur and Guilty Gear series. I haven't owned the right system for it in a while, but I think the DOA series isn't that bad either. I would probably have played a lot more of the King of Fighters series and Capcom vs. SNK had I known about them sooner (I am still mostly an RPG player, after all). I even play anime spin-off fighting games like the DBZ: Budokai and Budokai Tenka'ichi games, and have a lot of fun with them. Just about the only major franchise I don't like playing is the Tekken series, simply because I rented Tekken 4 (I think) once, struggled with the terrible controls, and gave up out of disgust with the game's senselessly high learning curve.

After all of that, the Super Smash Bros. series is the one series that I keep playing time and again, because it is so simple, chaotic, and fun. Everything else tends to get too technical, repetitive, or gives my thumb a terrible blister.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 14, 2008)

After grabbing Toon Link last night, I'm now playing with a full retinue of characters.  It's a beautiful thing.  I like everybody, but early favorites include Pit, Sonic, and Wolf, and Zelda.



			
				Asmor said:
			
		

> Sonic seems to lack hitting power




I don't agree.  It's true that he needs to wrack up some damage before executing a smash, but I have no problem knocking foes of the screen, particularly with his down smash attack.  That said, what's really scary about Sonic is that his moves are not only quick, they're unpredictable.


----------



## fba827 (Mar 15, 2008)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> So did anyone have to send in your Wii for "cleaning"?




This may be a stupid question -- but what are you talking about with the 'cleaning' ?


----------



## fba827 (Mar 15, 2008)

Felon said:
			
		

> Read all these posts, read the Wiki, heard the commercials on the radio, still no idea what the high level of excitement about this game stems from.




Hype from Nintendo marketting and fans, that's all.   It all boils down to a fighting game.
Add that it is the first major fighting game for the wii, it has that uniquness for now.


----------



## Asmor (Mar 15, 2008)

It's the sequel to one of the most universally loved games in recent memory.

That's like asking why there's all the hype for Halo 3.

You might feel that the hype is deserved, you might feel that it is not, but it should be obvious why it exists.


----------



## TwinBahamut (Mar 15, 2008)

fba827 said:
			
		

> Hype from Nintendo marketting and fans, that's all.   It all boils down to a fighting game.
> Add that it is the first major fighting game for the wii, it has that uniquness for now.



It is hyped because it is the sequel to Super Smash Bros. Melee, the top-selling game for the Gaemcube for six straight years. Super Smash Bros. Melee sold six million copies, on the console that was a distant third compared to the PS2 and Xbox. Keep in mind, that means that Melee sold more copies than Halo, a game whose sequels have been extremely hyped.

As a testament to the quality of Melee, I was playing Melee up until the week before Brawl was released, and I don't think I am alone in enjoying Melee for years after its original release. When a game is that good, you anticipate its sequel.

Also, there have been fighting games released on the Wii, like the DBZ Budokai Tenka'ichi games and Guilty Gear Accent Core, so it is not just about a "first fighting game".


----------



## Vocenoctum (Mar 15, 2008)

fba827 said:
			
		

> This may be a stupid question -- but what are you talking about with the 'cleaning' ?




Lots of folks have been having problems with the game not working in their Wii. Turns out this is the first game to use the double layer of the DVD and use DirectX9 or whatnot, and dust on the laser can interfere with it's ability to read/access.

The solution is to send the system to Nintendo for a "cleaning".


----------



## Felon (Mar 16, 2008)

Asmor said:
			
		

> It's the sequel to one of the most universally loved games in recent memory.



Doesn't that just beg the question of why the previous game was popular?



> That's like asking why there's all the hype for Halo 3.



Funny you should say that. It is indeed like asking why there's all the hype for Halo: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=208278&highlight=Halo

I got some reasonable answers there.



> You might feel that the hype is deserved, you might feel that it is not, but it should be obvious why it exists.



Well, it's obviously obvious to you and others, but I guess I'll just never understand getting excited simply because other people are excited. Interestingly, when I ask "what's all the hype about?" at least one person will invariably treat it as a silly question, as if hype (or at least _successful_ hype) is self-justifying. Once a bunch of people decide something is good, the matter doesn't bear any further investigation.

By comparison, I'm wildly excited about GTA4 being released next month, but I'm pretty sure that if I were asked, I could articulate what qualities distinguish it from other games other than its popularity.


----------



## Shadeydm (Mar 16, 2008)

I just got this game yesterday evening, so far I am impressed. Te graphics are big improvement over my other two wii games (sports and play). I never owned a game cube (I was always a PS1&2 guy) but I really enjoyed playing it right out of the box.

For those of you have had the game for a while what controller are you using wii mote, wii mote + nunchuk, or an old fashioned controller?

So far I have only used Link and Pit and I think I like Pit better of the two so far. 

Has anyone figured out if you can import your mii iinto the game?


----------



## LightPhoenix (Mar 16, 2008)

Felon said:
			
		

> Well, it's obviously obvious to you and others, but I guess I'll just never understand getting excited simply because other people are excited.




So basically, you're trolling and/or threadcrapping?


----------



## Vocenoctum (Mar 16, 2008)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> So basically, you're trolling and/or threadcrapping?




That assumes there is no answer to his question.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Mar 16, 2008)

Felon said:
			
		

> Doesn't that just beg the question of why the previous game was popular?




Myself, I do not have any of these game, so this is off the wall, but...

Okay, so it's a fighting game. Let's assume fighting games are all similar in basics, different in specifics. Seems reasonable enough.

So, the differences in control scheme are entirely based on preference, and a lot of the preference can come down to what you play the most, obviously.

Other than that, we got storyline, most of the time quite lacking in a fighter...

So, characters. I think this is how most of the games now-adays differentiate themselves. I'd hazard a guess that Smash Bro's popularity started simply based on having Mario beat up Luigi, and it kept going from there. If it was the same game with unknown characters, I doubt it would ever have taken off like it did.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 17, 2008)

Felon, Super Smash Bros. Melee was so popular because it took the concept of the original Smash Bros. and expanded upon it.  The game was easy to learn but difficult to master, had tons of characters to choose from to match various preferences and playstyles, and provided 4-player fighting that was chaotic and challenging.  Oh, and it was fun.

The hype around the pre-release of Brawl really stemmed from the quality of Melee, the marketing of the new game, and the expectations of its fans.  In other words, the same things that hype usually stems from.  Now that Brawl has been out for a while, one can make judgments for or against that hype, but before that most of us had little to no comparison (not having played the game).



> By comparison, I'm wildly excited about GTA4 being released next month, but I'm pretty sure that if I were asked, I could articulate what qualities distinguish it from other games other than its popularity.




How?  GTA4 isn't out yet, so unless you have played it, I'm not clear on how you could list those qualities.  By my reckoning, the hype created around GTA4 comes from the same place that all hype comes from.  Even if you have played the game, the vast majority of the GTA3 fanbase have not and only have their own expectations and pre-release tidbits to form an opinion.


----------



## Megaton (Mar 17, 2008)

Well, after a week of playing all I have to do is get Wolf. I think since the game has been out for a while in Japan and so many of us have unlocked all or most of the characters that we shouldn't worry about spoilers.

I've decided to main Yoshi. I know, he's never been considered top tier, but he's got pretty good smashes, and his up+B actually helps his recovery and prevents meteor smashes. I also like his flutter attacks.

Of the new characters I like Ike and Lucas the most.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Mar 17, 2008)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> Felon, Super Smash Bros. Melee was so popular because it took the concept of the original Smash Bros. and expanded upon it.  The game was easy to learn but difficult to master, had tons of characters to choose from to match various preferences and playstyles, and provided 4-player fighting that was chaotic and challenging.  Oh, and it was fun.




I think fun is the main thing, and it's always hard to describe. For me, not a multiplayer guy, Halo3 was fun, CoD4 was not.



> The hype around the pre-release of Brawl really stemmed from the quality of Melee, the marketing of the new game, and the expectations of its fans.  In other words, the same things that hype usually stems from.  Now that Brawl has been out for a while, one can make judgments for or against that hype, but before that most of us had little to no comparison (not having played the game).



I'm sure there was also an element of the Nintendites finally getting an updated classic for the new system. It doesn't mean it's not a good game or anything, but just figured.





> How?  GTA4 isn't out yet, so unless you have played it, I'm not clear on how you could list those qualities.  By my reckoning, the hype created around GTA4 comes from the same place that all hype comes from.  Even if you have played the game, the vast majority of the GTA3 fanbase have not and only have their own expectations and pre-release tidbits to form an opinion.




He can articulate WHY he wants GTA4, point by point. (To some extent)

In comparison to his complaints about the Smash Bros "hype".


----------



## Vocenoctum (Mar 17, 2008)

Megaton said:
			
		

> Well, after a week of playing all I have to do is get Wolf. I think since the game has been out for a while in Japan and so many of us have unlocked all or most of the characters that we shouldn't worry about spoilers.





Wait, wait....

Fighting games have spoilers?


----------



## TwinBahamut (Mar 17, 2008)

Felon said:
			
		

> Doesn't that just beg the question of why the previous game was popular?



Why? You asked, "Why are a lot of people looking forward to the game?" and the answer is "Because a lot of people really enjoyed the previous game in the series." People found the previous game fun, and thus the sequel is anticipated (mostly because the general trend in videogames is that sequels are better than their predecessors). I am willing to bet that 99% of the people hyped about Brawl happen to have played Melee, and have found it to be a fun game. "People getting excited over other people being excited" has nothing to do with it.

Now, the question "Why do people like the Smash Bros. series in the first place" is an entirely different question, but since that seems to be what you are actually asking, I guess I might as well answer.

The Super Smash Bros. series has reached a pretty high level of popularity because it is a very simple, easy-to-learn fighting game that combines a number of unique features. First, it is a crossover game where you get to control some of the most popular and beloved characters in videogame history. Second, it is one of those rare fighting games that allows 4-player multiplayer matches. Third, the basic game mechanics (built around knocking people out of the arena, rather than depleting a life meter) are unique and fun. Fourth, the rules are extremely customizable, and there are many different stages and items, so the game experience is flexible and varied enough to suit a variety of tastes.

Brawl takes that popular formula, adds a few game modes, adds several characters, makes the rules even more flexible, includes the option to play matches over the internet, and basically reinvigorates the game.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Mar 18, 2008)

I just want to say that I can't stand Lucas.  Ugh, what an awful character.


----------



## Asmor (Mar 18, 2008)

Can't stand playing as him or against him?

He seems pretty popular.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 18, 2008)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I just want to say that I can't stand Lucas.  Ugh, what an awful character.




One thing I've noticed about the game, even this early in the running, is that every character is viable in some fashion.

In an effort to really crack the series, I've taken to playing Random characters in Brawl, and sticking with that character until I win 2 or 3 matches.  It just so happens that I got stuck playing Lucas last night.  I think he's a very good character and, in the right hands, an absolute terror.  He has a lots of options, strong attacks, and a bit of AOE on each of his smashes.  I'd say he's lacking a decent recovery move, but his double jump is sufficient and if you can get the hang of smacking yourself with a pk thunder, that works well too.  Obviously, he's light and not terribly fast so those can be issues.  But make good use of his shields and dodges and you'll be all right.


----------



## Felon (Mar 18, 2008)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> So, the differences in control scheme are entirely based on preference, and a lot of the preference can come down to what you play the most, obviously.
> 
> Other than that, we got storyline, most of the time quite lacking in a fighter...
> 
> So, characters. I think this is how most of the games now-adays differentiate themselves. I'd hazard a guess that Smash Bro's popularity started simply based on having Mario beat up Luigi, and it kept going from there. If it was the same game with unknown characters, I doubt it would ever have taken off like it did.





			
				GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> Felon, Super Smash Bros. Melee was so popular because it took the concept of the original Smash Bros. and expanded upon it.  The game was easy to learn but difficult to master, had tons of characters to choose from to match various preferences and playstyles, and provided 4-player fighting that was chaotic and challenging.  Oh, and it was fun.





			
				TwinBahamut said:
			
		

> The Super Smash Bros. series has reached a pretty high level of popularity because it is a very simple, easy-to-learn fighting game that combines a number of unique features. First, it is a crossover game where you get to control some of the most popular and beloved characters in videogame history. Second, it is one of those rare fighting games that allows 4-player multiplayer matches. Third, the basic game mechanics (built around knocking people out of the arena, rather than depleting a life meter) are unique and fun. Fourth, the rules are extremely customizable, and there are many different stages and items, so the game experience is flexible and varied enough to suit a variety of tastes.
> 
> Brawl takes that popular formula, adds a few game modes, adds several characters, makes the rules even more flexible, includes the option to play matches over the internet, and basically reinvigorates the game.



Thanks for the exposition, one and all. 


> How?  GTA4 isn't out yet, so unless you have played it, I'm not clear on how you could list those qualities.  By my reckoning, the hype created around GTA4 comes from the same place that all hype comes from.  Even if you have played the game, the vast majority of the GTA3 fanbase have not and only have their own expectations and pre-release tidbits to form an opinion.



For those following it closely, there's a lot more info out now about GTA4 than just tidbits--certainly enough details there to drum up some well-informed excitement. Beyond that, the GTA series is virtually a genre unto itself, because there are so few games out there like it (after Saints Row, I'm pretty out of comparisons).


----------



## Asmor (Mar 19, 2008)

Felon said:
			
		

> Beyond that, the GTA series is virtually a genre unto itself, because there are so few games out there like it (after Saints Row, I'm pretty out of comparisons).




You're kidding, right? I mean, sure, you'd totally have a point several years ago. GTA 3 pretty much single-handedly invented the "sandbox" genre. However, since then, it's become the new genre de jour, perhaps only waning slightly in popularity in recent times. The last several Spider-Man games, Saint's Row, Crackdown, Simpsons Hit & Run... Honestly, considering I don't like the genre much myself, and I suck at coming up with lists off the top of my head, that's pretty impressive. If given time to research I'm sure I could come up with a list of several dozen games which are like GTA 3+ (granted, many are blatant rip offs, and all owe their existence to GTA, but they are games like GTA nonetheless).


----------



## Felon (Mar 19, 2008)

Asmor said:
			
		

> You're kidding, right? I mean, sure, you'd totally have a point several years ago. GTA 3 pretty much single-handedly invented the "sandbox" genre. However, since then, it's become the new genre de jour, perhaps only waning slightly in popularity in recent times. The last several Spider-Man games, Saint's Row, Crackdown, Simpsons Hit & Run... Honestly, considering I don't like the genre much myself, and I suck at coming up with lists off the top of my head, that's pretty impressive. If given time to research I'm sure I could come up with a list of several dozen games which are like GTA 3+ (granted, many are blatant rip offs, and all owe their existence to GTA, but they are games like GTA nonetheless).



So let me see if I've got this straight: you're offering a small list that includes highly specious examples of GTA-style games like Spider-Man and the Simpsons, and then deeming it to actually be much more impressive than it seems in light of the fact that you suck at coming up with lists "off the top of your head". Furthermore, you are sure that you could come up with "several dozen" examples given time., but we can just save you that time by going ahead and accepting it as fait accompli.

It seems like you felt like taking the time to be contradictory, but you didn't feel like taking the time to try to provide support.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 19, 2008)

Felon said:
			
		

> Thanks for the exposition, one and all.
> 
> For those following it closely, there's a lot more info out now about GTA4 than just tidbits--certainly enough details there to drum up some well-informed excitement. Beyond that, the GTA series is virtually a genre unto itself, because there are so few games out there like it (after Saints Row, I'm pretty out of comparisons).




I haven't been following GTA4, other than the occasional report from 1Up or whatever, but I suspect the amount of information being released for that game compared to Brawl's prerelease is similar.  By the home stretch (the last month before release) we knew about 75% of the characters, different play types, online play, the Subspace Emissary game mode (Story Mode, new to Smash), the new custom stage builder.  And that's just the official channels; it was not difficult to find leaked info about everything else.

So again, I think people's excitement about the game stemmed from the same places, and without playing the game, was just as well informed (if not moreso) than the prerelease of any other game.


----------



## Arnwyn (Mar 19, 2008)

Felon said:
			
		

> So let me see if I've got this straight: you're offering a small list that includes highly specious examples of GTA-style games like Spider-Man and the Simpsons,



No, he's actually right with those examples. Those are all 'open sandbox'/'free roaming' games. Heck, do a Google search for "GTA-style", and you get bombarded.



> It seems like you felt like taking the time to be contradictory



Irony alert!


----------



## Asmor (Mar 19, 2008)

A couple notes... I define "gta-style" games here to be games in which one can do missions, or just explore the game world and futz around, as the mood strikes them.

*Games functionally identical to GTA* (i.e. third person action games fitting that paradigm):
GTA series from GTA 3 on
Simpsons: Hit & Run
Saint's Row
True Crime: Streets of LA
Crackdown
Spider-man Series
Transformers

*Games which fit that paradigm, but change the formula somehow*
Midtown Madness (whichever was on the Xbox... Never played any of the others, so can't comment on them)
Burnout Paradise
Tokyo Extreme Racer series
Elder Scrolls series
Pretty much any MMORPG (World of Warcraft, Everquest, City of Heroes, Guild Wars, etc, etc, etc)

However, now I'm bored. As has been said already, a simple search reveals lots of others. Here's a link to GameSpot for 106 games tagged as Sandbox, although to be fair a lot of those games I would not say are very reminiscent of the GTA-style of a sandbox game.

I look forward to your reply explaining to me why I'm wrong.


----------



## Felon (Mar 19, 2008)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> No, he's actually right with those examples. Those are all 'open sandbox'/'free roaming' games. Heck, do a Google search for "GTA-style", and you get bombarded.



Personally, I don't think that just being non-linear (which is pretty much all the term "sandbox" refers to) or set in an urban environment qualifies a game as a GTA analogue. I certainly think putting MMO's and street-racing games in the same genre as GTA is reaching on your tippy-toes. Apparently, you two think that stuff counts. So it goes. 

This tangent's get threadcrappish, so I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Megaton (Mar 19, 2008)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> One thing I've noticed about the game, even this early in the running, is that every character is viable in some fashion.
> 
> In an effort to really crack the series, I've taken to playing Random characters in Brawl, and sticking with that character until I win 2 or 3 matches.  It just so happens that I got stuck playing Lucas last night.  I think he's a very good character and, in the right hands, an absolute terror.  He has a lots of options, strong attacks, and a bit of AOE on each of his smashes.  I'd say he's lacking a decent recovery move, but his double jump is sufficient and if you can get the hang of smacking yourself with a pk thunder, that works well too.  Obviously, he's light and not terribly fast so those can be issues.  But make good use of his shields and dodges and you'll be all right.




I agree with you, Lucas can definitely be a terror. I think he's better than Ness: his third jump with the lightning is easier to use, and his PK Freeze move is twice as fast from what I can tell. I end up using that a lot when a player is trying to recover. Better smash attacks too. I might have to main him.


----------



## Asmor (Mar 19, 2008)

I'd like to play Lucas or Ness, but they seem like they'd be a bitch to learn... Their attacks are all very hard to control, and control seems to be the key to them.


----------



## Megaton (Mar 24, 2008)

They definitely take some practice Asmor.  I remember when I first tried playing Ness in the N64 version and it was a pain in the ass. I'd do lightning jumps into the side of buildings and curse a lot, heh. But after a while the lightning jump and PK moves aren't that bad. If you give them a whirl in Classic or All-Star mode on easy you might end up liking them. I think they're among the more unique characters in the game anyways.


----------



## fba827 (Mar 27, 2008)

A question on general opinions (i know personal tastes will differ, so not debating it, just trying to see if there is a general trend).

Being someone who is completely uncoordinated (having grown up on old school NES with  only two buttons and direction pad)

Which two or three characters do you find the easiest to control?
Which two or three characters do you find the hardest to control?

(talking about pulling off the moves, etc)


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 27, 2008)

fba827 said:
			
		

> A question on general opinions (i know personal tastes will differ, so not debating it, just trying to see if there is a general trend).
> 
> Being someone who is completely uncoordinated (having grown up on old school NES with  only two buttons and direction pad)
> 
> ...




Hmmm... I'd say that, in general all the characters are pretty even.

I find Pit and Wolf to be the simplest.  Both have good speed and power with fairly predictable moves.  But that doesn't make them bad characters, not by a long shot.

Sonic can be a pain to try and control, but only because he's _so fast_.


----------



## Asmor (Mar 27, 2008)

I'd probably recommend either Mario or Link to start off with. They seem to be the most obvious "balance" characters with average stats across the board and moves which are simple to learn and use.

You might also try some of the slower characters who hit hard, like King Dedede, Donkey Kong and Bowser.


----------



## Wereserpent (Mar 27, 2008)

I find I like Samus and Mr. Game and Watch a lot.  Snake is not too bad either though.

EDIT: Maybe it is just me, but it seems that compared to Melee, a lot of characters Up+B jumps have been downgraded.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 27, 2008)

Galeros said:
			
		

> I find I like Samus and Mr. Game and Watch a lot.  Snake is not too bad either though.
> 
> EDIT: Maybe it is just me, but it seems that compared to Melee, a lot of characters Up+B jumps have been downgraded.




How so?  I haven't done any kind of comparison myself, but Marth and Luigi's ^B still destroy things when you hit at the right spot.  Meta Knight's is also great (his best KO move IMO) and Charizard's is also suprisingly good.


----------



## Wereserpent (Mar 27, 2008)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> How so?  I haven't done any kind of comparison myself, but Marth and Luigi's ^B still destroy things when you hit at the right spot.  Meta Knight's is also great (his best KO move IMO) and Charizard's is also suprisingly good.




I was referring more to how far up they let you jump compared to Melee rather than damage.  But it could just be me.


----------



## Ristamar (Mar 28, 2008)

As a person who used Link a lot in Melee, it's immediately obvious they really nerfed Link's spin attack, both as an offensive weapon and as a means of recovery.  His standard double jump is also kinda pathetic.


----------



## Wereserpent (Mar 28, 2008)

Ristamar said:
			
		

> As a person who used Link a lot in Melee, it's immediately obvious they really nerfed Link's spin attack, both as an offensive weapon and as a means of recovery.  His standard double jump is also kinda pathetic.




That is what I was referring to when I was talking Up+B jumps.  A lot of them seem to be less potent.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 28, 2008)

Galeros said:
			
		

> That is what I was referring to when I was talking Up+B jumps.  A lot of them seem to be less potent.




Aha.  Yes, that's definitely true for Link.  He seems to have gotten slower (even heavier?), with some of his moves getting slightly better.  (I'm a fan of his new bombs, myself.)  I think his triple jump got shorter because they wanted to encourage using the grapple as well.  And you can charge the spin attack now.

I didn't use Link much in Melee, so I don't have much point of comparison for him.  But he's a specific case, and general consensus seems to be that he's overall worse than he was.  Did you have any other old characters in mind whose ^Bs have been nerfed?


----------



## Shadeydm (Mar 29, 2008)

I reciently unlocked Falco, he might be the fastest character or one of the fastest, good times!


----------



## Asmor (Mar 29, 2008)

Shadeydm said:
			
		

> I reciently unlocked Falco, he might be the fastest character or one of the fastest, good times!




Uh... Sonic would like to disagree.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Mar 29, 2008)

Just wondering if anyone else thought that the storymode was way too easy when you play solo compared with when you play two player?


----------



## ThirdWizard (Mar 30, 2008)

I think I'm the only one who likes Olimar!


----------



## Wereserpent (Mar 30, 2008)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> Did you have any other old characters in mind whose ^Bs have been nerfed?




Hmmm, well I think that Peach's is not as good as it was, but I never played her very much in Melee.  Mario's does not seem to be as good as it used to be either.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Mar 30, 2008)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Lies!
> 
> Zero Suit Samus = Amazing. I can tear up with that whip. I'm actually surprised how good she is, as I really expected that to be much more of a throwaway character.



Played ZSS for the first time last week--is there a way to _start_ as her, or do you have to wait for the Final Smash Ball?


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 30, 2008)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Played ZSS for the first time last week--is there a way to _start_ as her, or do you have to wait for the Final Smash Ball?




After you select her, hold R until the start of the match (don't remember the equivalent on the remote.)  Her suit should fall off at the beginning of the match.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Mar 30, 2008)

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## LightPhoenix (Apr 1, 2008)

fba827 said:
			
		

> Being someone who is completely uncoordinated (having grown up on old school NES with  only two buttons and direction pad)
> 
> Which two or three characters do you find the easiest to control?
> Which two or three characters do you find the hardest to control?
> ...




I haven't found a character I would say is explicitly easy to control over the others... maybe Ike or Marth.

As for hardest - any of the fast characters, but especially Fox IMO.  I used to be a huge fan of Fox, but I can barely play him in this version because he's so twitchy now.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Apr 1, 2008)

What control scheme does everyone use? I can't get used to the standard nunchaku style--I have to use my Gamecube controllers to be any decent.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Apr 1, 2008)

Also using the cube controller.  It's the most precise, I think.

Which is a real disappointment to me.  They remote is just totally awkward and imprecise.


----------



## Wereserpent (Apr 1, 2008)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> Also using the cube controller.  It's the most precise, I think.
> 
> Which is a real disappointment to me.  They remote is just totally awkward and imprecise.




I am trying to get used to the Wii Remote because that is all I have right now.

Hey, how do you get Sonic, Starwolf, and Jigglypuff?


----------



## Asmor (Apr 2, 2008)

Galeros said:
			
		

> I am trying to get used to the Wii Remote because that is all I have right now.
> 
> Hey, how do you get Sonic, Starwolf, and Jigglypuff?




You can find that info on GameFaqs.

Imho, the easiest way is to play through SSE (the single player mode). You unlock Sonic at the end, and there are hidden doors (on the levels listed on the link above) where you can fight and unlock Wolf and Jigglypuff.


----------



## Shadeydm (Apr 3, 2008)

Asmor said:
			
		

> Uh... Sonic would like to disagree.



I don't have sonic access yet


----------



## Rugult (Apr 3, 2008)

It's all about Wario.  There's nothing quite like being a jerk and riding your bike back and forth across the stage.  Oh, and farting.  Can't forget the farting.

He's like Mario...  without class!


----------



## Asmor (Apr 3, 2008)

Rugult said:
			
		

> It's all about Wario.  There's nothing quite like being a jerk and riding your bike back and forth across the stage.  Oh, and farting.  Can't forget the farting.
> 
> He's like Mario...  without class!




I usually play with random, just because my friends hate when I play my best character (Pikachu!), so I get stuck playing Wario a lot. I can't stand him. >_>

Which isn't to say he's a bad character, I just can't play him at all. I basically just spend the entire match riding back and forth on my motorcycle.


----------



## fba827 (Apr 3, 2008)

Rugult said:
			
		

> ...  without class!




The brawl characters are classless?  I don't know, I see most of them as Fighters, with a few Fighter/Rogues and Fighter/Sorcerers tossed in.


----------



## Wereserpent (Apr 16, 2008)

So, after having played some more I have decided to use Lucas as my main.  His smash attacks are great and his PK Thunder is great because it hits the same opponent multiple times.


----------



## fba827 (Apr 16, 2008)

I've played through the adventure mode and unlocked the three other characters so i have everyone now (which in turn unlocks more play modes and such) -- mind you, I did it on easy mode.

Now, I tend to be playing Pit a lot -- mainly because of his fly/recovery -- it helps a lot since I am tossed around very often.

Some of the characters are very gittery (like fox -- i can't get him to stand on the really small floor sections, he always ends up walking off when i turn him around, for example) and a few of them have moves that just make me suicide myself (squirtle to name one)

But over all, speaking as someone who is not coordinated for today's game consoles, while i was expecting to have more difficulty with the controls, I don't have _too_ much trouble with this.   I use the classic controller.  Though I rarely use the grapple or shield just because those buttons don't come to me as naturally as the others - someone told me I can remap the buttons? I may hunt around for that some time...


----------



## Wereserpent (Apr 16, 2008)

fba827 said:
			
		

> I've played through the adventure mode and unlocked the three other characters so i have everyone now (which in turn unlocks more play modes and such) -- mind you, I did it on easy mode.
> 
> Now, I tend to be playing Pit a lot -- mainly because of his fly/recovery -- it helps a lot since I am tossed around very often.
> 
> ...




I think Pit is a good character too.  His ability to fly around for a short period of time is very helpful.  I find that I like the lighter to medium characters such as Mr. Game and Watch, Pit, and Lucas over the heavier ones like Bowser or King Dedede.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm really liking Zero Suit Samus, but I kind of suck with (normal) Samus... and if there's a Smash Ball floating around, I can't just not get it and let someone get their final smash off. I need to either learn to use Samus as well as ZSS or main someone else. I apparently can't pull off the code fast enough to make Samus drop her armor.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Apr 16, 2008)

All you have to do is select Samus then hold R until the match starts.  Then all her armor falls off during the character entrances, so you can start in the zero suit.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Apr 16, 2008)

Oh, I can _start_ as ZSS, but once I get the smash ball (as I said, I have to go for it so I don't get final smashed), I turn back into Samus (or, I just don't use it, and it eventually gets knocked out of me so someone else can get it) and I'm forced to play Samus (until I get a smash ball again, which is harder because I'm not as good with Samus). There's supposedly a way to turn into ZSS again while Samus, but I can't get it to work.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Apr 16, 2008)

Ah ok, I misunderstood you.  My fault.  Yeah, you can do up-taunt down-taunt up-taunt quickly and do it, but I've never pulled it off myself.  The timing is pretty precise.


----------



## Jdvn1 (Apr 16, 2008)

Yeah, maybe I'll have more luck with the Wiimote setup instead of the Wavebird.


----------



## fba827 (Apr 17, 2008)

This is probably common knowledge but something I only recently found out (I don't read the brawl boards and what not so everything I know is from playing on my own or from friends)...

Kirby, after he swallows someone, he changes his hat to match the foe and mimics one of the eaten foe's powers (using the same button that was previously used to make Kirby swallow the target) -- it was cute when I realized it :-D

Snake -- on his stage, if you hit the down taunt a bunch of times, he gets a radio transmission that tells him about his foe and the foe's tactics (or a weakness).  This is actually how I learned that Kirby mimiced powers or that a good way to fight Ike was with ranged attacks.


----------



## Wereserpent (May 4, 2008)

Does anyone know how to get Snake's Codec conversations?  I keep reading about them but I can not seem to find a way to access them.


----------



## Asmor (May 4, 2008)

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, play on his stage (as Snake, naturally), and keep doing his down taunt repeatedly.

It may be a different taunt, but pretty sure it's the down one.


----------



## Wereserpent (May 4, 2008)

Asmor said:
			
		

> If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, play on his stage (as Snake, naturally), and keep doing his down taunt repeatedly.
> 
> It may be a different taunt, but pretty sure it's the down one.




Thanks Asmor. 

EDIT: Wow, now I feel dumb, fba just said how to do it in the post above mine.


----------



## Megaton (May 15, 2008)

I finally picked my mains:

1. Mr. Game and Watch
2. Luigi

From what I can tell G&W is great in terms of move priority, and I know he pisses off my roommate when I use him, lol. Luigi just has a lot of kill moves and is great in the air.

I'm also trying to (perhaps foolishly) earn every trophy, and I'm up to 438 so far. I'm stuck on Boss Battles on Intense, and 100 man melee for every character. SUPER FRUSTRATING.


----------



## Asmor (May 15, 2008)

Megaton said:
			
		

> Ihe pisses off my roommate when I use him




If you want to crank the annoyance up to 11, be sure to spam his neutral b while chanting "Sausage time!" in a high-pitched voice.


----------



## Megaton (May 16, 2008)

Asmor said:
			
		

> If you want to crank the annoyance up to 11, be sure to spam his neutral b while chanting "Sausage time!" in a high-pitched voice.




Already do that! XD


----------

