# Countdown-timer at Green Ronin...? What's it all about?



## MadMaxim (Apr 30, 2009)

The title says it all. What is this "new age" that's coming? Is it a campaign setting? Are Green Ronin going 4th edition anyway? Does anyone know anything about it?


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## Trolls (Apr 30, 2009)

It's a countdown to the announcement of a new licensed game.

Relevant link:
Green Ronin Publishing :: View topic - Green Ronin Podcast: Episode 9


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## xechnao (Apr 30, 2009)

Any guesses what will this be? 
I have a suspicion but it is a bit far fetched.


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## VictorC (Apr 30, 2009)

xechnao said:


> I have a suspicion but it is a bit far fetched.




Well don't keep us in the dark, what's your suspicion?


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## The Green Adam (Apr 30, 2009)

*At one time...*

I was working in...the industry...and Green Ronin was set to get a relatively large and awesome license for their Mutants & Masterminds game but as I understand it, the deal fell through. If it didn't fall through and they're gonna make the game after all...OMG. 

AD
Barking Alien


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## xechnao (Apr 30, 2009)

VictorC said:


> Well don't keep us in the dark, what's your suspicion?




Well, they had got a license for the Warhammer rpg right? Perhaps they have managed to get a license for the other game line this company develops-
hint: although this company is not the original creator and copyright owner of the IP it is based upon.
But, yeah, this may be far too ambitious.


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## C_M2008 (Apr 30, 2009)

It's the timer until they run out of money.









In all seriousness, no idea.


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## coyote6 (Apr 30, 2009)

GR didn't have a license for Warhammer, as I understand it; they were the design house for WFRP 2e, working for Black Libray.

Are you hinting at the DC Comics license that Black Library announced they had a few years ago, but never did anything with? Everything else Black Library did, they owned the IP (since BL is part of Games Workshop, unless I misunderstand the relationship). And I think Fantasy Flight got the rights to everything else BL did, though I would assume the DC license wasn't part of that package (as I understand it, most licenses like that aren't transferrable these days).


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## Krensky (Apr 30, 2009)

The Green Adam said:


> I was working in...the industry...and Green Ronin was set to get a relatively large and awesome license for their Mutants & Masterminds game but as I understand it, the deal fell through. If it didn't fall through and they're gonna make the game after all...OMG.
> 
> AD
> Barking Alien




Things like that make me think Marvel or DC


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## xechnao (Apr 30, 2009)

coyote6 said:


> Are you hinting at the DC Comics license that Black Library announced they had a few years ago, but never did anything with?




While this sounds reasonable I was thinking more about fantasy -and blacklibrary does not produce anything about this, just the parent company.


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## dmccoy1693 (Apr 30, 2009)

Un-Official Guess:

Monty Python & The Meaning of Life the True20 RPG.


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## Nellisir (Apr 30, 2009)

MadMaxim said:


> The title says it all. What is this "new age" that's coming? Is it a campaign setting? Are Green Ronin going 4th edition anyway? Does anyone know anything about it?




Green Ronin has the "Aquarius" license?


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## sgaff24 (Apr 30, 2009)

True d21


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## Aus_Snow (May 1, 2009)

Nellisir said:


> Green Ronin has the "Aquarius" license?



We should sit down and workshop it, bring our past lives along for a spring clean, be bold and _sign_ that NLP, and just generally swim in patchouli when all else (surprisingly) fails.

Or so said the chick with wicked dreads and a recurring case of chronic ablutophobia. Besides which, assuming it's d12-based (naturally), we'll be harmonising with Esoteric Freemasonry's "fifth element" symbolism on a mento-spiritual level. And I, for one, endorse _that_.


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## AnthonyRoberson (May 1, 2009)

DC Comics license.  You heard it here first...


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## The Lost Muse (May 1, 2009)

AnthonyRoberson said:


> DC Comics license.  You heard it here first...




That'd be nine kinds of awesome!


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## MithrilKnight (May 1, 2009)

sgaff24 said:


> True d21




No, True d2 

It's a true rule-lite system, taking everything down to the flip of a coin.


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## fanboy2000 (May 1, 2009)

Star Trek


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## RefinedBean (May 1, 2009)

I'd love to see GR get their hands on Marvel or DC...I don't think they will, though.  Or they might only get access to part of the IP...maybe DC's Vertigo line?

More on the comics front, could be:

Image
ABC (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen d20, booyah)

Heck, any number of established titles.

Man, now I'm excited!


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## Brown Jenkin (May 1, 2009)

The Dazzler RPG.


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## fanboy2000 (May 1, 2009)

X-Men


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## teitan (May 1, 2009)

I hope it is DC or Marvel. I just don't see a partial license working like X-Men or Justice League (unless it is JLU). Part of the problem with the Authority/Stormwatch was that it only covered such a small part of Wildstorm.


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## Grydan (May 1, 2009)

RefinedBean said:


> Image





As Image is largely made up of separate creator/studio owned properties, there's no way that all of it could be licensed together. Image doesn't, as a company, own the rights to any of the major properties published through it. 

Characters from Spawn, Invincible, Witchblade, Savage Dragon, and Youngblood may interact with each other in comics, but when it comes to licensing each is a seperate property, belonging to different people or groups, each of whom would have to be dealt with seperately.


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## RefinedBean (May 1, 2009)

Grydan said:


> As Image is largely made up of separate creator/studio owned properties, there's no way that all of it could be licensed together. Image doesn't, as a company, own the rights to any of the major properties published through it.
> 
> Characters from Spawn, Invincible, Witchblade, Savage Dragon, and Youngblood may interact with each other in comics, but when it comes to licensing each is a seperate property, belonging to different people or groups, each of whom would have to be dealt with seperately.




Good call.  I stopped paying attention to Image a while ago, forgotten how they work.

I'm guessing Invincible is still awesome, though.


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## Henrix (May 1, 2009)

MithrilKnight said:


> No, True d2





Duh, you mean True D02!



But, really - DragonFist!!!


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## Agamon (May 1, 2009)

Orc & Pie the RPG

Seriously though, I don't really care, I just wish they stop delaying the SIFRP stuff....


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## TheWyrd (May 1, 2009)

Technically, Hasbro has the rights to Marvel's 'roleplaying' products. In practice, this means things like 'Hulk Hands' rather than anything resembling Pen and Paper RPGs. Also, apparently Joe Quesada has stated(anecdotal until I find a quote) that he's against RPGs in general. Of course given the last Marvel RPG, I can't say I blame him.

The DC license on the other hand was in Black Library's hands not too long ago and the closeness to Green Ronin and the joy of M&M players everywhere was palpable. A property that big however might be a bit overwhelming for a company the size of Green Ronin. I'd only want them to do it if I knew it wouldn't hurt the company. 

I honestly don't think it will be either of these games. Like Song of Ice and Fire, I expect it to be a smaller-ish property with its own (non-M&M) system.


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## Raven Crowking (May 1, 2009)

I note that the Doctor Who RPG announcement is no longer there at Cubicle 7.

RC


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## crazy_cat (May 1, 2009)

Raven Crowking said:


> I note that the Doctor Who RPG announcement is no longer there at Cubicle 7.
> 
> RC



I'm sure I heard a rumour somewhere linking them/that to Mongoose recently.


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## Raven Crowking (May 1, 2009)

crazy_cat said:


> I'm sure I heard a rumour somewhere linking them/that to Mongoose recently.




Hrm.

I was rather hoping to see what Cubicle 7 would do.  I understand that they have a system where a player can control an empire or a character, and both can be used during the same game session.  That sounded like a perfect mechanical model to cover the vast range of possibilities in Doctor Who!

Maybe Green Ronin picked up the license to Image comics or Dark Horse?


RC


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## billd91 (May 1, 2009)

Brown Jenkin said:


> The Dazzler RPG.




Wasn't something roller-disco-eque done as a d20 minigame in the Polyhedron section of Dungeon a number of years back?


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## sgaff24 (May 1, 2009)

MithrilKnight said:


> No, True d2
> 
> It's a true rule-lite system, taking everything down to the flip of a coin.




Nice. 

The fate of the entire realm is decided on this coin flip "heads you lose, tails I win".

Ha-ha-ha


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## mr_outsidevoice (May 1, 2009)

While I would love a DC or Marvel game again, the countdown is just on the Core site. 

If it was M&M related, I Think the timer would also be on the M&M site.


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## Thanlis (May 1, 2009)

"Something old, something new, something needed, something overdue."

"You'll find great adventure beyond the gate."

(From their Twitter.)

Green Ronin's official announcement of Pathfinder compatibility for their 3rd Age products, revamped as Fourth Age?

I see no mention of gates in the Dragon Fist world chapter, btw.


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## coyote6 (May 1, 2009)

mr_outsidevoice said:


> While I would love a DC or Marvel game again, the countdown is just on the Core site.
> 
> If it was M&M related, I Think the timer would also be on the M&M site.




Possibly, but if they were to get a DC or Marvel license, I imagine they might publish it as a standalone game -- that way non-M&M players would only have to buy one book to get started. I'd hope it would be an M&M-based game, but all-in-one might be a good idea, or even a requirement of the license.

Those Twitter quotes sound like something other than DC or Marvel, though.


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## Krensky (May 1, 2009)

I'm fairly confident "Something old, something new, something needed, something overdue." refers to the Wedding Knight adventure.


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## jdrakeh (May 1, 2009)

Raven Crowking said:


> I note that the Doctor Who RPG announcement is no longer there at Cubicle 7.
> 
> RC




I posted about that on the TARDIS a few days ago. _All_ mention of the Doctor Who RPG has been removed from the Cubicle 7 site. It's not on their updated official release schedule (posted this month) and has been _removed_ from their "products" page.


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## Nellisir (May 1, 2009)

The only thing I can think of that relates to "beyond the gate"...actually, make that two things...are Stargate and Black Company (Glittering Stone).  I don't know what a "wedding knight"" is.


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## Crothian (May 1, 2009)

Nellisir said:


> I don't know what a "wedding knight"" is.




That's the name of an adventure for Song of Ice and Fire.


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## fanboy2000 (May 1, 2009)

My 3rd cousins best friend's former college roommate is friends with a guy at Green Ronion and _he_ says it's the long awaited Spaceballs RPG.

Or Harry Potter.


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## Crothian (May 1, 2009)

Wouldn't this be the sequal to the Spaceballs RPG then?  

I hope for Twilight the RPG with rules on how to mix it with Buffy.


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## fanboy2000 (May 1, 2009)

Which then mixes with _Miracles_.


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## ConanMK (May 2, 2009)

Heroes (the TV show) ???


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## Silvercat Moonpaw (May 2, 2009)

ConanMK said:


> Heroes (the TV show) ???



They already created something for that in the M&M supplement Paragons.

I once remember them saying something about producing a book for the show _Supernatural_.  That's about all the speculation I'm willing to give.


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## Merlin's Shadow (May 2, 2009)

Whatever it is, it needs to involve this:


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## Fate Lawson (May 2, 2009)

"You'll find great adventure beyond the gate."


_"Still round the corner there may wait 
A new road or a secret gate, 
And though we pass them by today, 
Tomorrow we may come this way 
And take the hidden paths that run 
Towards the Moon or to the Sun."_


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## jinnetics (May 2, 2009)

*Beyond the gate.... a new age......*

Stargate Universe or Middle-earth are my best guesses......


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## jmucchiello (May 2, 2009)

Brown Jenkin said:


> The Dazzler RPG.




Don't make fun of Dazzler!! Issue #30 was (reluctantly I admit) one of the first comic books I ever purchased. (Why do I remember that?)


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## jmucchiello (May 2, 2009)

ConanMK said:


> Heroes (the TV show) ???



Yeah, that would be coherent.

Minor Spoiler: 



Spoiler



How would they work in that you have to kill off Nathan at the end of every story arc?


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## jdrakeh (May 2, 2009)

jmucchiello said:


> Yeah, that would be coherent.
> 
> Minor Spoiler:
> 
> ...




Well, in fairness, plenty of 'story games' have managed to incorporate similarly myopic play focus, so it _is_ possible.


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## Erekose (May 2, 2009)

_"You'll find great adventure beyond the gate."_

Well the *King Beyond the Gate *was a Drenai novel by David Gemmell but I doubt if that will be it - just wishful thinking on my part


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## Primal (May 2, 2009)

It's from Lord of the Rings -- an old song with lyrics written by Bilbo:

"Still round the corner there may wait
A new road or a secret gate,
And though we pass them by today,
Tomorrow we may come this way
And take the hidden paths that run
Towards the Moon or to the Sun.
Apple, thorn, and nut and sloe,
Let them go! Let them go! Sand and stone and pool and dell,
Fare you well! Fare you well!"

(excerpt from page 91)

In my opinion it's a clear implication that GR has bought the rights to Middle-Earth/Lord of the Rings RPG.


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## Nikosandros (May 2, 2009)

Could be...

What I would love (but due to licensing issue will never get) is a RPG with the license to _all_ of Tolkien material.


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## Keefe the Thief (May 2, 2009)

The guy who gets a license for THAT out of the license holders should afterward have no problem at mediating eternal world peace.


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## Nellisir (May 2, 2009)

Primal said:


> It's from Lord of the Rings -- an old song with lyrics written by Bilbo:
> ...
> 
> In my opinion it's a clear implication that GR has bought the rights to Middle-Earth/Lord of the Rings RPG.




I thought that, but dismissed it because of the "new age" thing.  In retrospect, I was probably being a bit too literal about that.  I could really, really, really go for a Green Ronin Middle Earth RPG.  I haven't bought a RPG product since last summer, but I'd sell a few more books for this one.


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## Matrix Sorcica (May 2, 2009)

Nellisir said:


> I thought that, but dismissed it because of the "new age" thing.




Middle Earth 4th Age?


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## Urizen (May 2, 2009)

That's my guess.

Lord of the Rings: The 4th age of Middle earth.


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## Fiery_Dragon (May 2, 2009)

If Chris and Nicole have anything Lord of the Rings, I'll just sent them all of my money now.  Man, that would be awesome and in good hands.


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## Corinth (May 3, 2009)

We have no need for another Middle-Earth, DC Universe, Marvel Universe, Babylon 5,  Stargate or Star Trek tabletop RPG.  All of those properties really do need to lie fallow until at least 2015; I say, therefore, that what's to come will be something else entirely and thus I say that none of the speculated identities are correct.


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## Aus_Snow (May 3, 2009)

Corinth said:


> We have no need for another Middle-Earth, DC Universe, Marvel Universe, Babylon 5,  Stargate or Star Trek tabletop RPG.



I completely disagree. But that doesn't mean that I think it will be any of those. Probably won't be, in fact.


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## Primal (May 3, 2009)

Corinth said:


> We have no need for another Middle-Earth, DC Universe, Marvel Universe, Babylon 5,  Stargate or Star Trek tabletop RPG.  All of those properties really do need to lie fallow until at least 2015; I say, therefore, that what's to come will be something else entirely and thus I say that none of the speculated identities are correct.




Why, then, the excerpt from the book? I honestly believe that they're launching a new age in Middle-Earth -- either literally (4th Age) or metaphorically (a new, "revolutionary" system that fits the book better than any of the previous ones).


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## billd91 (May 3, 2009)

I dunno if it would be Middle Earth. It's not exactly long overdue, is it?

Terminator, maybe? It's been around a while, has new stuff coming out for the media tie-in, I don't know of it being licensed in RPGs before. Except that doesn't suggest anything to do with a gate or knights or anything like that.

Lodoss War?


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## JeffB (May 3, 2009)

Isn't there a very popular Middle Earth 4th age computer/MMO game currently? I think Clark (Necromancer Games) is quite the fan.

would make sense...no?

EDIT-if so, it would be the first GR product I've bought since the release of M&M (1E). I'm a sucker for Middle-Earth.


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## teitan (May 3, 2009)

TheWyrd said:


> Technically, Hasbro has the rights to Marvel's 'roleplaying' products. In practice, this means things like 'Hulk Hands' rather than anything resembling Pen and Paper RPGs. Also, apparently Joe Quesada has stated(anecdotal until I find a quote) that he's against RPGs in general.




Thank god that Joe has no say in licensing!


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## teitan (May 3, 2009)

Corinth said:


> We have no need for another Middle-Earth, DC Universe, Marvel Universe, Babylon 5,  Stargate or Star Trek tabletop RPG.  All of those properties really do need to lie fallow until at least 2015; I say, therefore, that what's to come will be something else entirely and thus I say that none of the speculated identities are correct.




No, we need another DCU game because the WEG one was barely a  blip on anybodies radar!


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## Silverblade The Ench (May 3, 2009)

Minsc & Boo 4th ed: Hot Hamsters vs Horny Humans?
I personally am looking forward to playing a dread-pirate-ninja hamster: bow down before the Spawn of Woolly Rupert, ya heathen dogs!


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## Urizen (May 3, 2009)

Well, this may simply be coincidence, but Mr. Pramas did indeed take a " What race would you be in middle Middle Earth" quiz on the 21st on facebook.

That in itself is nothing, except... He said he's been dropping cryptic hints on twitter and facebook about what this license is gonna be.


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## hewligan (May 3, 2009)

On the GreenRonin forums he mentions that he drops a few hints on Facebook and Twitter. I don't do Facebook, but I looked at Twitter and  here is what I think:

1) There are several products here, not 1

2) the clues "Next week we herald the beginning of a new age." and "If you want to be a knight, you better be prepared to earn it." make me think that one of the products is about knights and chivalry - 'herald' in the first clue and 'knight' (rather obviously) in the second. I am going with Dragon Age - the Bioware game due out later this year. Someone on the GreenRonin boards came up with this guess and it just looks right. Also the Dragon Age twitter site mentions a few 'opportunities' and also that they will be at PAX (Penny Arcade Expo) to release/showcase something new (as in - not the core game). I do have a feeling about this one (my bowels are twitching)

3) On Twitter: "You'll find great adventure beyond the gate." - made me think of StarGate, but Mongoose have that licence I believe.

4) I am going to go out on a limb here and say some sort of tie-up with DC for Mutants and Masterminds is also to be announced. Why? Well, they also say on Twitter "something overdue.", and I believe in the past there was talk of them being close to a deal and then it falling through, although my memory sucks as I am not a huge fan of MaM (I own it, but super hero stuff is not my bag)


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## The Green Adam (May 3, 2009)

If its Middle Earth I'll be pleasantly surprised. Could be very cool.

If its Star Trek I will be very torn. I LOVE Star Trek! Star Trek d20 of any kind is anathema to me.

DC? I would pee my pants and kiss the ground Pramas and Kenson walk on.

Anything else would be a curiosity at best.

AD
Barking Alien


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## bolen (May 3, 2009)

I know that Steve Kenson (the designer of M&M) has said DC is his favorite comic and He would love to do a JLA version of M&M.


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## catsclaw227 (May 3, 2009)

Well, they have their 3rd Era stuff as the 3.x compatible gaming materials....

Maybe the are going to release a new setting / line under the GSL and 4e, called 4th Era?


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## crazy_cat (May 3, 2009)

catsclaw227 said:


> Well, they have their 3rd Era stuff as the 3.x compatible gaming materials....
> 
> Maybe the are going to release a new setting / line under the GSL and 4e, called 4th Era?



That is a very logical, sensible, well reasoned, and rational point. 

This, however, is the internet. I'm therefore going to ignore it utterly and completely.


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## xechnao (May 4, 2009)

crazy_cat said:


> That is a very logical, sensible, well reasoned, and rational point.
> 
> This, however, is the internet. I'm therefore going to ignore it utterly and completely.




I doubt this (making a GSL product) is something that impressive -on par with the fireworks they are throwing. Even if it were GSL-4e the whole deal should be about the name of the line. And the power of the name of the line is independent of the system used.


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## dm4hire (May 4, 2009)

The Green Adam said:


> If its Star Trek I will be very torn. I LOVE Star Trek! Star Trek d20 of any kind is anathema to me.




Green Ronin does more than d20 products.  SoIF is not d20 so if they did Star Trek they might not do it d20.


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## Crothian (May 4, 2009)

I really doubt that anything more they will do will be d20 unless it is with True 20 or M&M.  But they have proved they can make a great game with out those systems.


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## Atlatl Jones (May 4, 2009)

bolen said:


> I know that Steve Kenson (the designer of M&M) has said DC is his favorite comic and He would love to do a JLA version of M&M.



A few months ago, Steve changed from being M&M lead developer (more of an oversight and planning role) to being a designer.  This product is probably at least partially completed if they're announcing it, so it could be that Steve changed roles to work on this.


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## catsclaw227 (May 4, 2009)

xechnao said:


> I doubt this (making a GSL product) is something that impressive -on par with the fireworks they are throwing. Even if it were GSL-4e the whole deal should be about the name of the line. And the power of the name of the line is independent of the system used.



But see.... here's the thing.

If Green Ronin announced a 4e supported product line, maybe even a setting, it would get LOTS of press amongst all the old 3.x players as well as the 4e group.

EDIT:  Especially if it was a popular 3PP 3.x setting that hasn't seen any 4e style treatment, like Scarred Lands or Oathbound or Iron Kingdoms or something like that.

I, for one, am a big fan of the many 3.x 3PPs that survived the end of the official d20 and OGL support from WOTC.

If any of the big names stepped back into 4e, I imagine it could generate many sales for them, assuming they have the right people on the job.


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## Aus_Snow (May 4, 2009)

catsclaw227 said:


> But see.... here's the thing.
> 
> If Green Ronin announced a 4e supported product line, maybe even a setting, it would get LOTS of press amongst all the old 3.x players as well as the 4e group.
> 
> ...



Hm. I guess it's not out of the question. Well, of course, really.

However, they (Green Ronin) did farm out 4e Freeport to another 3pp, namely Expeditious Retreat Press, and that wasn't long ago, IIRC. They could've done that themselves, had they any interest, or rather intent, in that direction. But hey, like I said, it is _possible_.

And, on the flipside, they did put out that 4e character folio (? - I think that's what it's called) only a little while ago. Not sure if they said that was their only 4e product, evar, or for that matter how it's sold. . .


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## darjr (May 4, 2009)

Terminator RPG.

Knights of the human defense battling the machines after the apocalypse.

Time gates.

And it really is about darn time.



Or in other words, I have no freaking idea.

I've tried to google the twitter words and can't find a sensible combination other than a new age tract in PDF about how harry potter fiction is helping new agers 'main stream'.

.... it couldn't be that .... 

could it?


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## MichaelSomething (May 4, 2009)

Well, whatever event is being counted down to, we'll know by Tuesday's Noon Eastern time (assuming my math is correct ).  It must be pretty freakin' important if you're gonna use a countdown.


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## Jack99 (May 4, 2009)

catsclaw227 said:


> Well, they have their 3rd Era stuff as the 3.x compatible gaming materials....
> 
> Maybe the are going to release a new setting / line under the GSL and 4e, called 4th Era?




Considering how Pramas feels about 4e and the GSL, I do not see that as very likely. Don't get me wrong, I would love some GR 4e stuff, but I don't think we will ever see it.


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## xechnao (May 4, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Considering how Pramas feels about 4e and the GSL, I do not see that as very likely. Don't get me wrong, I would love some GR 4e stuff, but I don't think we will ever see it.




I do not think it is just about personal feelings but rather business sense. Would you rather have a super hot name and try to develop its own line and build on this or rather cater to a some part of the GSL market with your line? 

You could do both but the price of losing freedom of design development plus the risks of GSL in the end seem to make your market opening smaller.


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## Jack99 (May 4, 2009)

xechnao said:


> I do not think it is just about personal feelings but rather business sense. Would you rather have a super hot name and try to develop its own line and build on this or rather cater to a some part of the GSL market with your line?
> 
> You could do both but the price of losing freedom of design development plus the risks of GSL in the end seem to make your market opening smaller.




Obviously some companies think the GSL is fine. So lets not go there. Anyway, my point was simply that every single thing we have heard from GR is that 4e is not for them, and they do not like the GSL (from a business point of view obviously, not personal). Therefore my former post. Don't read too much into the word _feel_.


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## xechnao (May 4, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Obviously some companies think the GSL is fine. So lets not go there.




Go where? What company has been developing products of a valuable IP line for GSL? Perhaps even more so a licensed one. I am saying such a thing makes no good business sense -which goes beyond what one may happen to feel. Not just for Greenronin but every company out there. This is my distinction from "feel" to "sense".


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## Jack99 (May 4, 2009)

xechnao said:


> Go where? What company has been developing products of a valuable IP line for GSL? Perhaps even more so a licensed one. I am saying such a thing makes no good business sense -which goes beyond what one may happen to feel. Not just for Greenronin but every company out there. This is my distinction from "feel" to "sense".




Last I checked, Goodman Games has.


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## xechnao (May 4, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Last I checked, Goodman Games has.



 You should be talking about the Death Dealer adventure module. Yeah, did not know about that but it does not seem something that deep or big to me, in the sense of something that seems to come with a long standing and somewhat guaranteed selling point as a line to rpg fans, making worthwhile an investment of developing it in its own game line. Would I put up the fireworks Greenronin has done for something like that -especially if I were one with the reputation Greenronin has as a company? I guess, I would not and I doubt anyone would: at least the way I see things right now.


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## Piratecat (May 4, 2009)

Don't sidetrack the thread, guys.


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## Brown Jenkin (May 4, 2009)

Maybe Wotc has decided to lisence the 4e version of the My Little Pony RPG to Green Ronin. Its not like WotC has done much with the property since anouncing the product 3 years ago.


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## coyote6 (May 4, 2009)

Pramas squashes the D&D 4e and Stargate ideas on his blog, so that's not it. It's also a license, so it's not Dragonfist (Pramas owns that, so no license involved). 

Middle Earth doesn't have knights, does it? So the "If you want to be a knight, you better be prepared to earn it" hint doesn't point to ME. Of course, the hints might be about more than just the new license; the knight reference might be to some kind of Song of Ice and Fire product.

Pramas writing it seems to rule out M&M, in my mind; I don't think Chris has done any writing/designing/developing for M&M. So I'm thinking no Marvel or DC (it would be odd for one company to have two different superhero games, since they are inevitably going to cover similar territory; yeah, they could have different approaches, but it would still seem like you'd be competing with yourself).

Yeah, I think I'm going to go with option E, "None of the Above".


----------



## JeffB (May 4, 2009)

Knights???..hmmmm...



Pendragon?

Chivalry & Sorcery?

Monty Python & the Holy Grail? 

Dark Knights?


----------



## timbannock (May 4, 2009)

Baywatch Knights?

I'd buy it for the pictures!


----------



## Sen Udo-Mal (May 4, 2009)

neuronphaser said:


> Baywatch Knights?




NOOOO!!! I thought I had scrub my memories of watching the first esp. of that show....gawd why did I waste an hour of my life this way? Even with hot babes 

hehehe

Anyway, back on topic... I am not sure what it is... I have hopes but do not wish to voice them, as that would be tempting fate


----------



## Falstaff (May 4, 2009)

And another twitter hint:

"Few believe the threat is real. Will there be mass hysteria when the truth can no longer be denied?"


----------



## billd91 (May 4, 2009)

Falstaff said:


> And another twitter hint:
> 
> "Few believe the threat is real. Will there be mass hysteria when the truth can no longer be denied?"




Rom the Space Knight?


----------



## xechnao (May 4, 2009)

Falstaff said:


> And another twitter hint:
> 
> "Few believe the threat is real. Will there be mass hysteria when the truth can no longer be denied?"




Assuming this is not just referring to this fan guessing game but to the actual game, it seems the game is about fantasy (or perhaps horror) than anything else. It could be about some super-hero adventure story but not a whole line.
Asides from LotR is there anything else?


----------



## billd91 (May 4, 2009)

Pseudo-religious conspiracy? *Ninth Gate*, Templar Knights, Rosicrucians, books by Dan Brown and Umberto Eco?


----------



## Ktulu (May 4, 2009)

Davinci Code the RPG?  Ugh..  Could that *be* any worse than the movie or the book?


----------



## Silvercat Moonpaw (May 4, 2009)

The poster who suggested Dragon Age is looking closer and closer.

BioWare : Dragon Age : The World


----------



## Treebore (May 4, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Last I checked, Goodman Games has.






I'm sure Joe is flattered you think his business is comparable to GR.


Goodman does have an great business plan that breaks many conventions of thought, is has a solid degree of success because of it, but Goodman Games is till no Green Ronin, and has no where near the same business concerns GR has to consider when it comes to the GSL and 4E. Hence, Goodmans ability to do it, when GR doesn't. A comparison of GR and Paizo is much more appropriate, but there are still a couple of magnitudes of difference between even these two, but they have far more in common with regards to doing the GSL or not, and they made similar decisions because of these similarities.

Plus I think both Paizo and GR, and Goodman for that matter, are successful business' because they are capable of removing personal feelings from their decision making when its time to make their decisions. Besides, it is a no brainer to not have done the GSL and 4E when you look at the assets GR has. Same is now obviously true of Paizo, who has also done several "outside the box" business decisions. Staying 3E being one of the first, and giving away their Alpha and Beta Rules PDF's for free being more examples. There were, and still are, plenty of people thinking their decisions are crazy, but they still seem to be pretty darn successful because of their insane decisions.

Paizo will know for sure come August of 2010 just how insane, or brilliant, they were. Its certainly seeming brilliant right now.


----------



## Jack99 (May 4, 2009)

I doubt Joseph gives a rats ass what I think . And I didn't compare GG to GR. I was asked if any company had done those things, and I answered. I have no idea about their sales or size. But I am sure you can educate me on these things. 

Cheers


----------



## Treebore (May 4, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> I doubt Joseph gives a rats ass what I think . And I didn't compare GG to GR. I was asked if any company had done those things, and I answered. I have no idea about their sales or size. But I am sure you can educate me on these things.
> 
> Cheers





Actually Joe is like GR and Paizo when it comes to what their customers think, they want to know, especially on a "collectively" level, but you can't determine what they think collectively until you hear what they say as individuals.

As far as writing up business plans, starting a business, and owning/running one for 7 years, and shutting down with lots of hard assets, yes, I can educate you. I am definitely the exception in the business world, a small business success. I am working on doing it again, too.


----------



## Animus (May 4, 2009)

crazy_cat said:


> That is a very logical, sensible, well reasoned, and rational point.
> 
> This, however, is the internet. I'm therefore going to ignore it utterly and completely.




Sigged!


----------



## Jack99 (May 5, 2009)

Treebore said:


> Actually Joe is like GR and Paizo when it comes to what their customers think, they want to know, especially on a "collectively" level, but you can't determine what they think collectively until you hear what they say as individuals.
> 
> As far as writing up business plans, starting a business, and owning/running one for 7 years, and shutting down with lots of hard assets, yes, I can educate you. I am definitely the exception in the business world, a small business success. I am working on doing it again, too.




This will be my last regarding this subject, out of fear of side-tracking it. 

I find your arrogance astounding and your powers of assumption weak. First of all, while I am sure Joseph wants to know what his customers think about his products and the like, I am quite sure he doesn't care if they think GG is smaller/bigger/as big as GR or Paizo. As far as the education go, I was referring to knowledge of their size and sales. Nothing else.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Corinth (May 5, 2009)

How about TORG?


----------



## Harr (May 5, 2009)

Treebore said:


> I'm sure Joe is flattered you think his business is comparable to GR.
> 
> 
> Goodman does have an great business plan that breaks many conventions of thought, is has a solid degree of success because of it, but Goodman Games is till no Green Ronin, and has no where near the same business concerns GR has to consider when it comes to the GSL and 4E. Hence, Goodmans ability to do it, when GR doesn't. A comparison of GR and Paizo is much more appropriate, but there are still a couple of magnitudes of difference between even these two, but they have far more in common with regards to doing the GSL or not, and they made similar decisions because of these similarities.
> ...




Hey, awesome. Impressive.

So, hey, that countdown timer, what do you think THAT'S all about?


----------



## Treebore (May 5, 2009)

Harr said:


> Hey, awesome. Impressive.
> 
> So, hey, that countdown timer, what do you think THAT'S all about?




I don't know, we'll find out when the timer runs out. I think several good possibilities have been proposed, but I don't think any of them have been conclusively proven. 2 very strong contenders though, I hope its DC comics, but I think its more likely to be LotRings. 

I look forward to finding out, whatever it is.


----------



## Treebore (May 5, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> This will be my last regarding this subject, out of fear of side-tracking it.
> 
> I find your arrogance astounding and your powers of assumption weak. First of all, while I am sure Joseph wants to know what his customers think about his products and the like, I am quite sure he doesn't care if they think GG is smaller/bigger/as big as GR or Paizo. As far as the education go, I was referring to knowledge of their size and sales. Nothing else.
> 
> Have a nice day.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 5, 2009)

Corinth said:


> How about TORG?




Now that would be cool. Assuming they get it done right.


----------



## Jack99 (May 5, 2009)

Treebore said:


>




*hugs*


----------



## jdrakeh (May 5, 2009)

Treebore said:


> As far as writing up business plans, starting a business, and owning/running one for 7 years, and shutting down with lots of hard assets, yes, I can educate you. I am definitely the exception in the business world, a small business success. I am working on doing it again, too.




Nice example of an appeal to authority falacy!


----------



## Keefe the Thief (May 5, 2009)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> Now that would be cool. Assuming they get it done right.




Doesnt fit with the "threat is real?" line, though. I mean, if giantic trees root other worlds into Americas heart, some people are bound to notice.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 5, 2009)

Keefe the Thief said:


> Doesnt fit with the "threat is real?" line, though. I mean, if giantic trees root other worlds into Americas heart, some people are bound to notice.



Why do you nourish my doubts?


----------



## Keefe the Thief (May 5, 2009)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> Why do you nourish my doubts?




Because i hoped it would be Ultima: the RPG, and others destroyed my illusions about that one. Geteiltes Leid ist halbes Leid.


----------



## Treebore (May 5, 2009)

jdrakeh said:


> Nice example of an appeal to authority falacy!





Yeah, I've noticed no one likes to believe anyone. Doesn't matter, I know I am telling the truth. So does my wife, so do my kids, so do my parents and relatives, so I don't really care about anyone else.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 5, 2009)

Keefe the Thief said:


> Geteiltes Leid ist halbes Leid.



No it isn't .


----------



## Keefe the Thief (May 5, 2009)

Treebore said:


> Yeah, I've noticed no one likes to believe anyone. Doesn't matter, I know I am telling the truth. So does my wife, so do my kids, so do my parents and relatives, so I don't really care about anyone else.




Dude this is the internet. You could be a penguin who breaks into the zoo computer system at night and posts by typing with his webbed feet. I could be a sentient computer worm typing from the nuklear missle base that houses my ever-growing, hostile sentience. 
Who knows what´s true?


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 5, 2009)

Keefe the Thief said:


> Dude this is the internet. You could be a penguin who breaks into the zoo computer system at night and posts by typing with his webbed feet. I could be a sentient computer worm typing from the nuklear missle base that houses my ever-growing, hostile sentience.
> Who knows what´s true?



Nur um sicherzugehen, Keefe: Ich bin voll auf der Seite der Zylonen, Terminatoren, Replikatoren und sogar Borg. Kein Grund mich mit in die Luft zu jagen, okay?
Translation: I welcome our new, nuclear-missile-base-housed AI overlords!


----------



## Piratecat (May 5, 2009)

Jack, Treebore, et al -- kwitcher hijack, please.


----------



## CapnZapp (May 5, 2009)

Less than 2 1/2 hours now!


----------



## Urizen (May 5, 2009)

Hmm...

The Threat is real... this must be a new line...

Cthulhu... a Cthulhu Dark Ages book? Something dealing with gates and knights?

Or maybe......

I don't know what the hell I'm talking about and should have stuck with my Middle earth guess.


----------



## jdrakeh (May 5, 2009)

Post removed. As I said on the previous page, don't hijack the thread. ~ PCat


----------



## Obryn (May 5, 2009)

As I mentioned on CM, these sorts of countdowns almost invariably end in disappointment.  Which is, frankly, what I'm expecting here.

I will be surprised if it's anything I've heard of, and shocked if it's anything I care about.

-O


----------



## alleynbard (May 5, 2009)

Well, we'll know in ~6 minutes. 

I vote for Diablo.  Why not?  Seems like everyone else was just throwing stuff out. 

Seriously. I am hopeful for Lord of the Rings.  But we shall see.


----------



## weem (May 5, 2009)

Looks like it's up...



> *Network Timeout.*
> The server at www.greenronin.com is taking too long to respond.




Guess everyone was wrong


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 5, 2009)

I wanted to ask if it the server was already down, but it appears that has been answered.


----------



## coyote6 (May 5, 2009)

Slashdot Effect: the RPG?


----------



## CapnZapp (May 5, 2009)

At least I hope it's the traffic.

If their webmaster brought down the site to add in the update (as a brute force way of ensuring the code couldn't get out ahead of time) that'd be kind of lame.


----------



## Aus_Snow (May 5, 2009)

True20 Giveaway: The Reincarnation.

Or 'The Reanimation', perhaps. That could be even more appropriate.

edit --- Dragon Age it is!


----------



## Trolls (May 5, 2009)

*Warning:* main(http://greenronin.com/includes/gr-sites.php) [function.main]: failed to open stream: Operation timed out in */usr/home/greenronin.com/htdocs/index.php* on line *46*


----------



## dm4hire (May 5, 2009)

It's Dragon Age.  I got through.


----------



## weem (May 5, 2009)

Aus_Snow said:


> True20 Giveaway: The Reincarnation.
> 
> Or 'The Reanimation', perhaps. That could be even more appropriate.
> 
> edit --- Dragon Age it is!




Indeed, Dragon Age - interesting.


----------



## CapnZapp (May 5, 2009)

Okay so the Dragon Age poster was right.


----------



## mhensley (May 5, 2009)

Bioware and Green Ronin to Publish Dragon Age Pen & Paper Role-Playing Game

BioWare's Highly Anticipated Epic Fantasy Video Game Gets the Pen & Paper Treatment

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (May 5, 2009) — Leading video game developer BioWareTM, a division of Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ: ERTS), today announced that Green Ronin Publishing will launch a pen and paper role-playing game (RPG) based on the highly anticipated video game, Dragon AgeTM: Origins. The pen and paper game extends the Dragon Age universe, making it more accessible to passionate RPG fans looking for another way to experience the epic fantasy world of Thedas.

"We're delighted to be working with Green Ronin to explore more of the Dragon Age universe through a pen and paper role-playing game. We're excited to deliver Dragon Age's unique dark, heroic fantasy to our audience in a brand new way—a perfect complement to the landmark game we're launching on PC, Xbox 360, and PLAYSTATION 3 this fall," said Dr. Ray Muzyka, General Manager and CEO, BioWare and General Manager and Vice President, EA. "Our development teams craft rich, deep worlds, and this is an excellent way to expand the franchise."

"Dragon Age: Origins has been described as the spiritual successor to BioWare's Baldur's GateTM, one of the most highly-acclaimed fantasy computer RPGs in the world, so when BioWare approached us to do a pen and paper version, we had to say 'yes!'," said Green Ronin President Chris Pramas. "With our work on Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Black Company, and Thieves' World, dark fantasy is in our blood and Dragon Age: Origins is the best in its class. An opportunity to collaborate with BioWare on Dragon Age: Origins was not to be missed."

The Dragon Age pen and paper RPG will be available at card shops, and book and comic retailers in summer 2009. The first release will be a boxed set—perfect for new and experienced role-players alike. Green Ronin plans to release additional boxed sets and supplemental books, expanding the Dragon Age world even further.

Dragon Age: Origins from BioWare invites players to create their own heroes and join the fight against the darkspawn in a world of violence, lust, and betrayal. The game will feature deep character customization, challenging decisions, and a wealth of gritty, mature plots that, combined with the BioWare heritage, make it one of the most highly-anticipated releases of 2009. Dragon Age: Origins is scheduled to release this fall on the Xbox 360® videogame and entertainment system, PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, and PC.

Dragon Age: Origins is rated RP by the ESRB. No PEGI rating is available at this time. For more information about Dragon Age: Origins, visit BioWare : Dragon Age : Dragon Age Homepage. Pre-order the game now at EA Store (US) Online Store - Welcome.


----------



## Nikosandros (May 5, 2009)

So, it's Dragon Age... in my ignorance of videogames, I had never heard the name before this thread...


----------



## sjmiller (May 5, 2009)

Well, whoever guessed it was a game based on the Dragon Age video game was correct. I am underwhelmed. I was rather hoping for a license of something I actually cared about. I am not a big fan of computer rpgs, even less games based off of computer rpgs.  I am sure there is an audience for it somewhere, just not at my table.


----------



## Trolls (May 5, 2009)

So Dragon Age...I wasn't expecting that, even with the guesses people were making. Makes complete sense, though.

And it seems the table top game is coming out even before the video game. Interesting.


----------



## TheWyrd (May 5, 2009)

mhensley said:


> The Dragon Age pen and paper RPG will be available at card shops, and book and comic retailers in summer 2009. The *first release will be a boxed set*—perfect for new and experienced role-players alike. *Green Ronin* plans to release additional boxed sets and supplemental books, expanding the Dragon Age world even further.




I can't say I'm particularly interested in Dragon Age (though I did greatly enjoy Baldur's gate) but take the fact that it is Green Ronin AND a box set and I think I may have to possess this.


----------



## alleynbard (May 5, 2009)

I am completely out of touch. I hadn't heard of Dragon Age until now.  I went to the website and I must admit it looks pretty cool.

My current sphere of experience with video games doesn't extend much past World of Warcraft, the upcoming new Diablo game, and my limited Wii collection.   I may need to educate myself some more before the release of both games.  Of course, I have heard nothing but good things about Bioware's other titles. I have just never played them.

Not a total disappointment, because I am interested enough to at least research the title.


----------



## Mournblade94 (May 5, 2009)

I think the countdown would have been more warranted for a game that was already released... like ELDER SCROLLS.  I am looking forward to Dragon Age as a video game, but not so much as an RPG.

I was hoping someone would licence elderscrolls


----------



## Rodrigo Istalindir (May 5, 2009)

Meh.

Unless, of course, it's going to use SoIaF mechanics, and add magic. In which case, I'd be interested for the rules, anyway.

Not that I'm not looking forward to Dragon Age as a computer game, but the addition of yet another more-or-less standard fantasy setting is totally meh.


----------



## Mournblade94 (May 5, 2009)

Though since bioware is licensing with GR.. maybe we can finally see a system to support Mass Effect.  I was making one but it kind of died out.


----------



## Obryn (May 5, 2009)

Obryn said:


> As I mentioned on CM, these sorts of countdowns almost invariably end in disappointment.  Which is, frankly, what I'm expecting here.
> 
> I will be surprised if it's anything I've heard of, and shocked if it's anything I care about.






dm4hire said:


> It's Dragon Age.  I got through.



Woohoo!  I win!

-O


----------



## Greg K (May 5, 2009)

I love GR's products, but I am underwhelmed.  I have no interest in the Dragon Age video game or rpg.  

Still, a successful Dragon Age rpg would be good for Green Ronin and, hopefully, leads to more money to produce more M&M material and, finally, acquire licenses that do interest me (none of them based on video games).


----------



## kitsune9 (May 5, 2009)

Greg K said:


> I love GR's products, but I am underwhelmed.  I have no interest in the Dragon Age video game or rpg.
> 
> Still, a successful Dragon Age rpg would be good for Green Ronin and, hopefully, leads to more money to produce more M&M material and, finally, acquire licenses that do interest me (none of them based on video games).




Yeah, I agree. I was quite underwhelmed myself and I don't even know what Dragon Age is, let alone play it. Nevertheless, I like the products that Green Ronin puts out and collected pretty much their entire 3.x line of books and use their material. So, with this one, I'll take a look at it, and if it catches my interest, I'll buy it.


----------



## Eridanis (May 5, 2009)

For me, the most interesting part of this announcement is the partnership with Bioware. It's an affirmation of the great work GR has done on past games, and bodes well for the future, I hope.


----------



## Piratecat (May 5, 2009)

This is going to be one of those cases, I think, where it's going to be far cooler after the fact than before it.  I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 5, 2009)

Nikosandros said:


> So, it's Dragon Age... in my ignorance of videogames, I had never heard the name before this thread...



Well, it's not released yet, so if you don't spend much time on reading (video)game related sites or magazines, changes are low you'd know it.

---

Color me disappointed.


----------



## AnthonyRoberson (May 5, 2009)

*Mike Mearls Twitters about Green Ronin Announcement*

I don't know if he meant it that way, but Mike Mearls' comment on Twitter about the Green Ronin announcement came off kind of snarky in my opinion...

_I remember when tabletop gaming companies used to be the licensors, rather than the licensees._


----------



## Greg K (May 5, 2009)

kitsune9 said:


> I was quite underwhelmed myself and I don't even know what Dragon Age is, let alone play it.




I am not a big computer game fan (Gold box DND games, Baldur's Gate, and Freedom Force only). The only reason I know is that I receive Bioware emails since I have Neverwinter Nights and subscribed for update notices.  Actually, I never even finished playing the first NW game having picked it up, because it allowed you create adventures and customize the game which I had hoped would allow me to run an online game with it so that a friend across country could continue  participating in our weekly games and everyone would have cool graphics. Unfortuantely, some of the things that I had wanted to be customizable were hardcoded and the fixes were more trouble than they were worth.


----------



## billd91 (May 5, 2009)

AnthonyRoberson said:


> I don't know if he meant it that way, but Mike Mearls' comment on Twitter about the Green Ronin announcement came off kind of snarky in my opinion...
> 
> _I remember when tabletop gaming companies used to be the licensors, rather than the licensees._




Yes, and I remember when WotC had a license to do Diablo books too. 

I see nothing wrong with a big draw in one media generating licenses in others, no matter what direction the license relationship goes. Computer -> tabletop, tabletop -> computer, movie -> tabletop, TV -> tabletop, whatever.


----------



## Finkin Swiftfingers (May 5, 2009)

I do not like typical RPG's on the computer/console but I can say that after viewing the demo at last years GenCon - I made the decision that I would be picking up Dragon Age.  The game looked great and I really liked the background story that BioWare had constructed.  

I'll probably check out the RPG when it is released but I am more invested in their Song of Ice and Fire game.  I'll be curious to see if SoIaF takes a backseat with the new license announced.  They are behind schedule on their release plans (Admittedly some of this is a George Martin issue) and the editing on the core rulebook was terrible.  Hopefully Dragon Age can avoid these issues.


----------



## Obryn (May 5, 2009)

AnthonyRoberson said:


> I don't know if he meant it that way, but Mike Mearls' comment on Twitter about the Green Ronin announcement came off kind of snarky in my opinion...
> 
> _I remember when tabletop gaming companies used to be the licensors, rather than the licensees._



Huh.  It looks more wistful to me.

So, related topic, can I pre-emptively say this announced RPG is "too videogamey"? 

-O


----------



## Imaro (May 5, 2009)

AnthonyRoberson said:


> I don't know if he meant it that way, but Mike Mearls' comment on Twitter about the Green Ronin announcement came off kind of snarky in my opinion...
> 
> _I remember when tabletop gaming companies used to be the licensors, rather than the licensees._




Yeah, I agree... it did come off in a rather snarky manner... considering WotC has done a Wheel of Time rpg... he tries to clear it up after the fact with this comment...

_The GR announcement sparked the last comment, but it isn't like it's a bad move by GR. It's the bigger trend in RPGs to license, not create._

_..._and it still comes off as a little bitter but also, IMO, slightly disingenuous... I just don't see a "bigger trend" in rpg's to license as opposed to create right now. There are tons of indie rpg's steadily coming out, but even looking at White Wolf, arguably, the second largest rpg company right now... they've created all their WoD lines (Mage, Werewolf,Vampire,Changeling, Hunter, Geist) Scion, Exalted, etc. if anything they've moved away from licensing over the past year to year and a half.  I'm just not seeing what he's basing these statements on.


----------



## mhensley (May 5, 2009)

AnthonyRoberson said:


> _I remember when tabletop gaming companies used to be the licensors, rather than the licensees._




I remember when there used to be D&D computer games.  How's that coming?


----------



## Brown Jenkin (May 5, 2009)

AnthonyRoberson said:


> I don't know if he meant it that way, but Mike Mearls' comment on Twitter about the Green Ronin announcement came off kind of snarky in my opinion...
> 
> _I remember when tabletop gaming companies used to be the licensors, rather than the licensees._




Mike must be older than I thought. My 1984 Middle Earth Role Playing books would otherwise disagree.


----------



## Filcher (May 5, 2009)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:


> Not that I'm not looking forward to Dragon Age as a computer game, but the addition of yet another more-or-less standard fantasy setting is totally meh.




This is my response, but I'm hoping I'm wrong in the end. 

I play WAY too much Call of Duty 4 online, but I've not yet wanted to see it as a modern day RPG. The reasons I got to online gaming, and the reasons I go to pen and paper are not remotely linked. But again, maybe the story will be so awesome that I'll just have to expand it at home.


----------



## Urizen (May 5, 2009)

I've never heard of Dragon Age.

maybe it'll be cool.

Dunno.

I'd have rather seen the 4th Age of Middle earth.


----------



## mearls (May 5, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Huh.  It looks more wistful to me.




I miss the excitement that came with the release of Deadlands, Shadowrun, and L5R. A lot of the companies that built really interesting new worlds are gone, or not interested in doing that any more.

There used to be a balance between new and licensed games, and as an RPG fan I miss that.

So yes, color me wistful.


----------



## avin (May 5, 2009)

Early Dragon Age propaganda said you would be able to "slave entire nations with necromancy", of course they change their minds and http://www.rpgcodex.net make the usual fun


----------



## Mournblade94 (May 5, 2009)

Brown Jenkin said:


> Mike must be older than I thought. My 1984 Middle Earth Role Playing books would otherwise disagree.




I am sure WOTC would too since they have a successful STAR WARS line.

That comment he made was utter nonsense.  Hopefully it was taken out of context.


----------



## Remathilis (May 5, 2009)

AnthonyRoberson said:


> I don't know if he meant it that way, but Mike Mearls' comment on Twitter about the Green Ronin announcement came off kind of snarky in my opinion...
> 
> _I remember when tabletop gaming companies used to be the licensors, rather than the licensees._




I took it to mean "I remember when Bioware licensed D&D to make kick ass video games, now Bioware is licensing out THEIR product to GR to make a kick-ass TTRPG.

Its all about whose getting the royalties for the project.


----------



## Corinth (May 5, 2009)

Meh.  Another D&D campaign setting in denial, i.e. another fantasy heartbreaker, albeit one with far more money (and thus superior production values) behind it and that means that it's going to fall before D&D's superior network of users.  This property isn't different enough from the D&D style of fantasy to make it worthwhile.


----------



## Obryn (May 5, 2009)

Mournblade94 said:


> That comment he made was utter nonsense.  Hopefully it was taken out of context.



Judging by his own response above... well, I don't think he was taken out of context, because there WAS no context.  It's the tone that was assumed, and the conclusions that were jumped-to.

I'm continually amazed at how quick some posters are to take an ambiguous statement as interpret it as offensively as possible. 

-O


----------



## Imaro (May 5, 2009)

mearls said:


> I miss the excitement that came with the release of Deadlands, Shadowrun, and L5R. A lot of the companies that built really interesting new worlds are gone, or not interested in doing that any more.
> 
> There used to be a balance between new and licensed games, and as an RPG fan I miss that.
> So yes, color me wistful.




Mike, all I can say is that either you're not broadening your horizons enough or your purposefully ignoring (perhaps because they are not to your tastes) tons of games that aren't licensed... Just off the top of my head...

Qin: The Warring States
All the WoD games, Exalted, Scion
SW: Rippers, 50 Fathoms, Necessary Evil, Hellfrost, Shaintar, etc.
Mutants & Materminds
Witch Hunter: The Invisible World
Hellas
Dark Heresy
Reign
Jaws of the Six Serpents
Mutant City Blues
Wild Talents
Corporation
Houses of the Blooded...

and given time I could list 3x more.  Really I find it a hard claim to swallow that the time of original rpg's is a thing of the past... or that licensed settings are any more prominent than they ever were.


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## alleynbard (May 5, 2009)

Mournblade94 said:


> I am sure WOTC would too since they have a successful STAR WARS line.
> 
> That comment he made was utter nonsense.  Hopefully it was taken out of context.




The problem I see with Twitter is how carefully you need to choose your words.  If you don't say just the right thing, it just comes out wrong.

But I agree, though I am not so sure I would have said it so strongly.   Rather, the limitations of the medium was not taken into proper consideration by Mike.  Licensed RPGs have been around a long time. They have been cornerstones of the RPG industry since at least MERPs.  And, honestly, Green Ronin is well known for its ability to create unique and interesting worlds inspired by what has come before. 

I don't think we have seen an end to that in RPGs today. Even amongst mainstream game producers we have some very vibrant and interesting original material being produced. So I see no reason to bemoan its loss.

It just so happens that licensed material is also very important.  Unfortunately, licensed material seems remarkably hit and miss.  Let's hope for Green Ronin's sake this is a hit.


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## fanboy2000 (May 5, 2009)

Technically, _Dark Heresy_ is a license of Game Workshop's Warhammer 40k line.

_Mutant's and Masterminds _uses the OGL license, but I don't think anyone is talking about that kind of license.


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## Zaukrie (May 5, 2009)

And people wonder why WotC doesn't communicate more directly with us....he made an off the top commenton Twitter....not some great, grand directive from on high.

I've been looking forward to this very, very delayed product for some time (not the RPG, the video game), but I find myself just not able to get into video games right now, so I'm not as sure as i was when it was originally supposed to come out.


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## Imaro (May 5, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> And people wonder why WotC doesn't communicate more directly with us....he made an off the top commenton Twitter....not some great, grand directive from on high.




Yeah, because nothing from a WotC employee, representative, gamer, etc. should ever be commented on, or challenged... for fear they may not like it.  Look The same way Mike posted a comment in reference to an announcement by another company... people posted their thought's on what he posted.  How is it any different, and why shouldn't people say what they think about it?


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## CaptainChaos (May 5, 2009)

I don't know a lot about Dragon Age, but teaming up with the biggest name in computer RPGs sure seems like a smart move to me.


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## Zaukrie (May 5, 2009)

There's nothing wrong with commenting, we are all doing that on the intertubes every day. It is the hyperbole (imo) and emotion that people place on what was a small little twitter comment that I believe would lead people to stop interacting at all (or make their comments guarded). I believe that mountains are often made of molehills on this and other sites. 

YMMV, of course, just one man's opinion.


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## Alikar (May 5, 2009)

I really don't get all of the shagrin about it being a fantasy world. Should we bash DnD because its new edition is another fantasy world. I mean whats wrong with another fantasy license? 

I'm personally hoping for a new set of mechanics that will make the story interesting. I love 4th editions mechanics with their tactile detail, the gritiness of something like Warhammer, and the openness of a story teller system, but I'm hoping we will get something new and not another d20/d10/percentile system.


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## xechnao (May 5, 2009)

Mike's comment is based on the fact that while Bioware made its reputation by the tabletop medium, now it's a turn where their respective roles have been inverted. 

Right now I see the possibility of two things.

- If the "Dragon Age" line is a good video game and Greenronin makes the most out of it, the D&D brand is probably going to be hurt by this, because of the strong historic connection of Bioware and D&D in the video game arena. D&D may seem out of favor. Moreover a D&D video game, especially a 4e one will have to not be a worse game than Dragon Age or risk even further damage.

- If the "Dragon Age" line gets hyped and Greenronin does an adequate job a number of people may be opened to the tabletop hobby. This is good for everyone in the hobby and especially those that will be gaining momentum at that point - obviously Greenronin should be the first one.


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## outsider (May 6, 2009)

xechnao said:


> - If the "Dragon Age" line is a good video game and Greenronin makes the most out of it, the D&D brand is probably going to be hurt by this, because of the strong historic connection of Bioware and D&D in the video game arena. D&D may seem out of favor. Moreover a D&D video game, especially a 4e one will have to not be a worse game than Dragon Age or risk even further damage.




I was going to disagree with you here.  I don't think tabletop Dragon Age will have any effect whatsoever on WotC.  When you brought a D&D video game into it though, I see your point.  Whatever D&D game comes out this generation, it's going to be compared to Dragon Age.  Unless Bioware or Blizzard or maybe Bethseda are the ones making the D&D game, it's probably not going to stack up.  The D&D brand no doubt gained alot from having some of the best crpgs on the market for a decade or so.  Now they have to compete with the guys that made those games, and I don't think it'll be pretty.


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## Aus_Snow (May 6, 2009)

Them what should know better aside. . . Yeah, I really didn't expect this one (Dragon Age). Didn't know what to expect, to be honest.

All I know is, both parts of the product line will probably do very well for both the companies involved, and I'm glad about that. Also, the TTRPG will be correspondingly visually stunning, I expect. No idea what the rules will be like, to even the least extent!

But regardless, I'm cautiously optimistic, given the track record here.


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## Truth Seeker (May 6, 2009)

*Dragon Age:Origins*

For those, who may not know what it is about. From the BioWare site.


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## Teflon Billy (May 6, 2009)

I'll pick it up. I really have no idea what the source material is like (or why it deserves it's own countdown clock), but the folks at GR have enough cred built up with me that i will usually buy their stuff sight-unseen.

I haven't been disappointed yet.


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## Emryys (May 6, 2009)

xechnao said:


> Right now I see the possibility of two things....
> - If the "Dragon Age" line gets hyped and Greenronin does an adequate job a number of people may be opened to the tabletop hobby....




This aspect I find very interesting...


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## Samuel Leming (May 6, 2009)

Teflon Billy said:


> I'll pick it up. I really have no idea what the source material is like (or why it deserves it's own countdown clock), but the folks at GR have enough cred built up with me that i will usually buy their stuff sight-unseen.
> 
> I haven't been disappointed yet.



Not even by Gimmick's Guide to Gadgets?


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## Samuel Leming (May 6, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Judging by his own response above... well, I don't think he was taken out of context, because there WAS no context.  It's the tone that was assumed, and the conclusions that were jumped-to.
> 
> I'm continually amazed at how quick some posters are to take an ambiguous statement as interpret it as offensively as possible.
> 
> -O



Green Ronin and Mearls have a history. Why shouldn't we consider that?


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## Maggan (May 6, 2009)

For me, this announcement has made me check out the Dragon Age CRPG.

Which is what I think BioWare's main purpose of this deal is. To attract PnP rpg players. A smart marketing move, in my eyes. I'm doubtful if the revenues from the pnp rpg will make a lot of difference to the bottom line of BioWare.

For Green Ronin this is an interesting decision, and it's going to be interesting to see how they (and Pramas) follow up on his previous comments about bringing new players to the pnp hobby. Is this the way to do it? Is Green Ronin the company to do it?

Interesting times.

But for me, checking out the world, reading the blurb on the pnp rpg on BioWare's site and thinking about it for a little while, results in one question:

Why should I play pnp Dragon Age and not continue with D&D and WFRP?

I find nothing about the premise of the pnp version sufficiently appealing and/or different from other fantasy rpgs which I already play to really grab me. It doesn't really scream "play me you fool!" in any way that other games already do.

So that's what Green Ronin has to adress to get me to try the boxed set. Why should I get that? What does it bring to the table that other games don't?

One thing would be seamless integration with the CRPG tools for World Building. That would grab me.

/M


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 6, 2009)

> Which is what I think BioWare's main purpose of this deal is. To attract PnP rpg players. A smart marketing move, in my eyes. I'm doubtful if the revenues from the pnp rpg will make a lot of difference to the bottom line of BioWare.



Ideally, this should work to bring CRPG fans into the RPG fold and vice versa. Whether this is realistic is another matter - how big is the RPG audience compared to the video game audience? Who will gain more?


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## Uzzy (May 6, 2009)

Given that Bioware's strengths lie in world, character and story, I am certain that the Dragon Age world will be well worth playing in, be it in the CRPG or the pnp RPG. 

Another interesting point comes from Chris Pramas's blog, which states that he wants the game to be a good introductory game for people trying out pnp RPG's for the first time. So I'm hoping for a relatively simple system. 

Finally, as others have said, I can only hope that this is the start of Bioware allowing more licensed RPG's based on their IP, such as Mass Effect and Jade Empire. While a Dragon Age RPG is very cool, something based on Mass Effect or Jade Empire would be equally as cool.


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## ShinHakkaider (May 6, 2009)

Piratecat said:


> This is going to be one of those cases, I think, where it's going to be far cooler after the fact than before it.  I'm looking forward to it.





Yeah, I think this pretty much nails it. 
My only exposure to Dragon Age was seeing a few mentions of it on X-Play and they seem to be excited about it. 
It wasnt on my radar before that but it's being made by the folks who gave us
Knights of the Old Republic and it's sequel so it actually might not suck. 

I'm also a fan of Green Ronin since they put out quality product that I actually WANT to buy. 

They also have a page on the Dragon Age Site here.


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## PatrickLawinger (May 6, 2009)

outsider said:


> I was going to disagree with you here.  I don't think tabletop Dragon Age will have any effect whatsoever on WotC.  When you brought a D&D video game into it though, I see your point.  Whatever D&D game comes out this generation, it's going to be compared to Dragon Age.  Unless Bioware or Blizzard or maybe Bethseda are the ones making the D&D game, it's probably not going to stack up.  The D&D brand no doubt gained alot from having some of the best crpgs on the market for a decade or so.  Now they have to compete with the guys that made those games, and I don't think it'll be pretty.




Let's face it, the big name companies do not need a name like "Dungeons and Dragons" to help sell a CRPG. The cost of using the name simply isn't worth it to them. It is better for them, particularly in the long run, to create their own IP rather than license someone else's.
I don't know if anything is being developed as a DnD 4e computer game right now. I honestly suspect there is, but I would expect some sort of intro hype about it. The DragonAge site has been up for a while and the game won't even be out until the last half of this year. Basically, if something is being developed I am positively not buying it until after I see and hear a lot of feedback on it. The companies I would trust to do a good job on it would already have a PR site up for it.

The latest DnD offerings are NWN2 expansions and "Dungeons and Dragons Tactics" for the PSP. Let's face it, the former doesn't compare well with other available CRPGs and the latter is a travesty in terms of both design and implementation.

Personally, I don't think the DnD name is anywhere near as valuable in the computer gaming space as Hasbro/WotC thinks it is. This tells me that the companies willing to license that IP are not going to have a strong background making CRPGs.

That's my 2 cents (I typed up 4 cents worth but deleted most of it  )
Patrick


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## Mournblade94 (May 6, 2009)

I am an avid 360 gamer. I knew nothing of Dragon Age, and now I do. I will definitely be buying Dragon Age. If I like the console game, I will want RPG support. (like I want for Mass effect and oblivion). If I really like the world I will want to continue the game in Table top.

Just because bioware has green ronin doing dragon age does not mean that it will not do a D&D game (I think, I make nototiously bad calls when it comes to figuring out businessthink and legalese).

That said, though they ruled the market for a while, the 360 and ps3 developers are putting out good RPG's. I did not think I would like a game better than Baldur's Gate until I played Oblivion (I did not even like morrowind more, though it is a great game).

D&D seems to be good for the Japanese rpg's at this point. like lost odysey (sp.), with its strong Anime influence.


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## Mournblade94 (May 6, 2009)

Uzzy said:


> While a Dragon Age RPG is very cool, something based on Mass Effect or Jade Empire would be equally as cool.




Or just exponentially MORE cooler!


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## AllisterH (May 6, 2009)

PatrickLawinger said:


> Let's face it, the big name companies do not need a name like "Dungeons and Dragons" to help sell a CRPG. The cost of using the name simply isn't worth it to them. It is better for them, particularly in the long run, to create their own IP rather than license someone else's.
> I don't know if anything is being developed as a DnD 4e computer game right now. I honestly suspect there is, but I would expect some sort of intro hype about it. The DragonAge site has been up for a while and the game won't even be out until the last half of this year. Basically, if something is being developed I am positively not buying it until after I see and hear a lot of feedback on it. The companies I would trust to do a good job on it would already have a PR site up for it.
> 
> The latest DnD offerings are NWN2 expansions and "Dungeons and Dragons Tactics" for the PSP. Let's face it, the former doesn't compare well with other available CRPGs and the latter is a travesty in terms of both design and implementation.
> ...




I agree but disagree

Bioware BECAME a big name in the industry VIA Dungeons and Dragons (and also Star Wars).

(Note: Bioware came out with Mass Effect so would you say that SW is no longer a valuable property?..)

As much as we s at the branding frenzy WOTC is currently in, everyone is doing it.

What WOTC should be doing is be looking for the NEXT Bioware. There are ompanies out there that would love t duplicate the success of Bioware usingt heir own method...


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## Uzzy (May 6, 2009)

Mournblade94 said:


> Or just exponentially MORE cooler!




Only cause we've already played Mass Effect and Jade Empire.  Knowing Bioware's pedigree though, I am confident that Dragon Age will be just as awesome as those two games.


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## Nikosandros (May 6, 2009)

Samuel Leming said:


> Green Ronin and Mearls have a history. Why shouldn't we consider that?



They do? What happened?


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## CCamfield (May 6, 2009)

Uzzy said:


> Given that Bioware's strengths lie in world, character and story, I am certain that the Dragon Age world will be well worth playing in, be it in the CRPG or the pnp RPG.
> 
> Another interesting point comes from Chris Pramas's blog, which states that he wants the game to be a good introductory game for people trying out pnp RPG's for the first time. So I'm hoping for a relatively simple system.




I hope that this will be a success.  Even though they might only sell to a small % of Dragon Age computer game players, the potential for Green Ronin to have a success with this could well be greater than if they were just making a fantasy game to try to compete with the existing pool of RPG players.

It's a little bit like Nintendo with the Wii - going outside of traditional demographics to try to have a success.


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