# Wee Jas clerics



## cloaker (Jun 28, 2002)

I started DMing a few months ago, and one of my players died and wanted to make a new one. I said ok. A few days later he said he wanted to make a Wee Jas cleric. I started reading stuff on Wee Jas and was a bit confusied, specially after reading Deities & Demigods which has no mention in why Wee Jas is involved in Death and has the Death domain.

Im searching for a bit of history and nice ideas of Wee Jas clerics you have played or seen played (my player seeks a bit of inspiration). 

thanks
cloaker


----------



## Tar Markvar (Jun 29, 2002)

I don't know the history of why Wee Jas is involved in Death. I seem to remember it being something like, she was responsible for shepherding dead wizards after battle, or something like that. I don't remember.

Wee Jas is much more Magic and Lawful Neutrality than she is Death, but she does have a role in death. Her clerics, in my opinion, are taught that death is not something to try to cheat, but to accept. It's a natural part of life, and undead or the search for immortality are perversions of Wee Jas' will. Her clerics are taught to revere the findings of long-dead wizards, etc.

She has the Death Domain because she's concerned with death, but she's more a Magic goddess than a Death goddess. 

Honestly, all I know about her is from the core books and Deities and Demigods, so I'm very curious to follow this thread, too.


----------



## chatdemon (Jun 29, 2002)

The 'canon' story behind Wee Jas' death domain is that when the Suel (the human subrace whose pantheon she belongs to) Empire was destroyed a millenia ago by the Rain of Colorless fire, the dying the dying people cried out to Wee Jas, the goddess of magic and law to guide them to salvation. The sudden increase in her power granted by all these new worshippers manifested itself as a new domain for her.

However, there are two HUGE flaws in this story:

1.> The empire' ruin came about as the result of their own mages doing insane arcane battle with their enemy, the Baklunish people. Why then would the common folk cry out for the goddess of magic to save them, when it is her gift that brought about the trouble to begin with?

2.> Deities & Demigods (3e) EXPLICITLY says the D&D pantheon (read: greyhawk gods) do *not* derive their power from the number of people who worship them, though they may tap their worship base for certain activities. How then does the sudden gain of new worshippers grant a deity more power?

Myself and a few others in greyhawk fandom have theorized on the true story of Wee Jas and the death domain. The stories vary, but the usual theme involves her usurping the domain from another, forgotten goddess.

Some details on my account can be found here:
http://www.canonfire.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=105

Another account, this one by Keoland Triad guy Sam Weiss, is found here:
http://www.canonfire.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=156
Sam's is interesting because it invokes the classic 'maiden, mother, crone' triumvirate idea that is common to a lot of mythology.

Note that neither my account or Sam's is 'canon', but they might help you craft your own version of the story of Wee Jas.

By the way though, the canon term for a cleric who follows wee jas is 'jasidan', as in 'I am of the Jasidan faith' or 'I am a Jasidan cleric'


----------



## RogueJK (Jun 29, 2002)

There are two deities of death in Greyhawk: Nerull and Wee Jas.  While Nerull is akin to the Grim Reaper, dragging people kicking and screaming to their eternal rest, Wee Jas is responsible for people dying peacefully.  She represents the more natural side of death, as opposed to Nerull's evil, malevolent approach to death.  She is commonly worshipped by people whose work is related to the dead, such as undertakers and morticians.  Also, because of her involvement with magic, she is worshipped by many nonevil necromancers.


----------



## chatdemon (Jun 29, 2002)

RogueJK said:
			
		

> * Also, because of her involvement with magic, she is worshipped by many nonevil necromancers. *




This is debatable.
A lot of GH fans, myself included who are knowledgeable in Jasidan lore would refute the idea that she has any noteworthy following among necromancers. Undertakers and morticians yes, necromancers no.

My belief is that as the goddess of law, Wee Jas would see death as the ultimate, final law, that you do not break, period. Anyone who dabbles in necromancy would be seen as an affront to her authority. Add in the fact that she is the goddess of vanity (an aspect 3e ignores) and you get someone who would be very bitchy if you defied her. Necromancy is out of the question imo.


----------



## RogueJK (Jun 29, 2002)

chatdemon said:
			
		

> *
> 
> This is debatable.
> A lot of GH fans, myself included who are knowledgeable in Jasidan lore would refute the idea that she has any noteworthy following among necromancers. Undertakers and morticians yes, necromancers no.
> ...




That may be, but even the 3e PHB and D&Dg both state: "She counts many powerful sorcerers and wizards (especially necromancers) among her followers."  It looks like, in 3rd edition at least, she is worshipped by necromancers.

Also keep in mind that necromancy isn't just about raising and commanding undead.  Many necromantic spells deal with harming or destroying undead.  That's how I see Wee Jas relating to necromancy.  She views the undead and abominations that go again the natural, lawful progression of life (and death), and her necromancers seek to end the existence of such abominations.  Since she is most decidedy not an evil deity, and most of the necromatic spells that deal with raising the dead are Evil, she would probably not approve of her necromancers doing that anyway.  Necromany also has a medical side, dealing with gaining insight on the workings of the human body through post-mortem research such as autopsies.  And Wee Jas surely wouldn't be opposed to that, since she is also involved with knowledge and learning.


----------



## chatdemon (Jun 29, 2002)

RogueJK said:
			
		

> That may be, but even the 3e PHB and D&Dg both state: "She counts many powerful sorcerers and wizards (especially necromancers) among her followers."  It looks like, in 3rd edition at least, she is worshipped by necromancers.




That is true, admittedly, but IMO it is one of 3E's biggest mistakes. They obviously went the easy, boring route "magic + death = necromancy", rather than do something creative and make a death goddess who isn't tied to necromancers for once. I was very disappointed.

.







> Since she is most decidedy not an evil deity,




Again, this is something 3E did, in prior greyhawk products, she is listed as LN (LE) indicating strong evil tendencies, derived from her vanity aspect.



> and most of the necromatic spells that deal with raising the dead are Evil, she would probably not approve of her necromancers doing that anyway.




Even using strict 3e interpretations of Wee Jas, this comment seems flawed, after all, her clerics can choose to inflict wounds using their spontaneous casting, rather than curing wounds. It all comes down to your interpretation of the material, but the rules seem to suggest a noticeable nuetral or even evil pattern to her behavior.



> Necromany also has a medical side, dealing with gaining insight on the workings of the human body through post-mortem research such as autopsies.  And Wee Jas surely wouldn't be opposed to that, since she is also involved with knowledge and learning.




This depends on your campaign world. IMO, a traditional psuedo-european fantasy world would not condone this, especially in a mythical world where the afterlife is percieved by the people to be real. Those who play with dead things would be shunned and hated and seen as sick bastards, if not lynched outright.


----------



## Taloras (Jun 29, 2002)

You guys seem to have missed something.  "All lawful neutral clerics of Wee Jas rebuke undead instead of turning them" which is in the PHB i think.  Where do you get the idea shes against undead?


----------



## chatdemon (Jun 29, 2002)

Taloras said:
			
		

> *You guys seem to have missed something.  "All lawful neutral clerics of Wee Jas rebuke undead instead of turning them" which is in the PHB i think.  Where do you get the idea shes against undead? *




A little thing called Greyhawk canon. Love it, Live it.


----------



## cloaker (Jun 29, 2002)

In Deities & Demigods it says here followers can be LG, LN or LE.
But in the Clerics description it says that LN clerics of Wee Jas can only cast Inflict (spon) and Rebuke.

She really does seem to be a Neutral godess and with little or no tendencies to evil.
Hard to know whats correct since I really dont know much about Greyhawk.



I think Ill make her a bit more neutral in my campain and allow LN clerics to choose between Inflict/Rebuke and Cure/Turn. Does this seem ok by you fans of Greyhawk ? What would you do ?

Thanks for the help so far, keep the stories coming. Anyone played Jasidan clerics ?


----------



## chatdemon (Jun 29, 2002)

cloaker said:
			
		

> *
> I think Ill make her a bit more neutral in my campain and allow LN clerics to choose between Inflict/Rebuke and Cure/Turn. Does this seem ok by you fans of Greyhawk ? What would you do ?
> 
> *




This is what it all comes down to really, what works best in your game. Greyhawk is the DM's world, open and undetailed enough for you to do what you wish.

I personally don't allow good aligned Jasidans, but the 3e rules and the official 3e material on Wee Jas defintely make it a viable choice.


----------



## Staffan (Jun 29, 2002)

Dunno about Deities & Demigods, but in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer she seems a lot closer to the old version. It lists her as the "LN (LE) intermediate goddess of Magic, Death, Vanity and Law." That doesn't outright ban LG clerics, but it does mean that LE ones are far more common. The dogmatic part of her description seem more concerned with magic and honoring the dead than anything else.

I don't remember where 2e put her on the Great Wheel, but based solely on her alignment I would place her in Acheron - between the pure law of Mechanus/Nirvana and the diabolic malevolence of Baator/Nine Hells.


----------



## chatdemon (Jun 29, 2002)

Staffan said:
			
		

> *
> I don't remember where 2e put her on the Great Wheel, but based solely on her alignment I would place her in Acheron - between the pure law of Mechanus/Nirvana and the diabolic malevolence of Baator/Nine Hells. *




Yup. 3E puts her on Archeron's 4th layer, Ocanthus, where she rules a realm known as Cabal Macabre.


----------

