# A Feast for Crows Update.



## KenM (Jan 31, 2005)

From George RR Martin's webpage:

   I said that I hoped to have the book done by the end of the year. Famous last words. No, it's not done, though I am getting closer. I have more than thirteen hundred pages in final draft form and another hundred or so in roughs or fragments, but there are still some chapters yet to write. I'm telling myself that I'm on the home stretch. As soon as FEAST as done, I will announce it here. 


—George R.R. Martin, January 17, 2005


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## JoeGKushner (Jan 31, 2005)

Yawn...

Oh, did he say something that actually means anything? No? Well, wake me when he does.


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## Teflon Billy (Jan 31, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> From George RR Martin's webpage:
> 
> I said that I hoped to have the book done by the end of the year. Famous last words. No, it's not done, though I am getting closer. I have more than thirteen hundred pages in final draft form and another hundred or so in roughs or fragments, but there are still some chapters yet to write. I'm telling myself that I'm on the home stretch. As soon as FEAST as done, I will announce it here...




Same old crap.

I love the books so far, but five (going on six) years between entries in a series is unacceptable.


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## satori01 (Jan 31, 2005)

Yeah same old same old.  However, I do appreciate that Martin is taking his time to ensure quality.  I dearly hope that after the wait we dont  wind up with a book where the central action is a character takes a bath, and debates what to have for diner for a couple of chapters..(cough Jordan cough cough).

Besides it is hard work trying to decide what character you want to kill, all of us DMs know that


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## KenM (Jan 31, 2005)

My main concern with the books is that I hope GRRM has not become a perfectionist to the point of loosing quiality. If this turns into another Wheel of Time, i'm dropping it quick.


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## D.Shaffer (Jan 31, 2005)

I like his books, I really do but...GAH. Maybe he should put out SMALLER volumes if it's going to take this long to put out the next in the series?


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## KnowTheToe (Jan 31, 2005)

1300 pages to cover five years he was going to skip over originally.  I don't mind long books, but this is getting  crazy.


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## MaxKaladin (Jan 31, 2005)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> 1300 pages to cover five years he was going to skip over originally.  I don't mind long books, but this is getting  crazy.



I imagine that will be much smaller when it gets into book form.  For one thing, I bet it's double spaced to allow for writing corrections and things.


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## Pants (Jan 31, 2005)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> 1300 pages to cover five years he was going to skip over originally.  I don't mind long books, but this is getting  crazy.



That's manuscript size.  I bet that it'll be 'Storm of Swords' size when it's done and compressed into book form.



			
				JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> Yawn...
> 
> Oh, did he say something that actually means anything? No? Well, wake me when he does.



I concur.


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## ssampier (Feb 1, 2005)

*This stinks*

 hurry up, will you?


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## KnowTheToe (Feb 1, 2005)

Oh yeah, I should have known that.  Oh well, I can handle that.  I guess it is too ealry to bust out the books for a reread.  Although I love the reread casue I don't have to read any chapters with Daeny or whatever hew name is.


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Feb 1, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I love the books so far, but five (going on six) years between entries in a series is unacceptable.




And I would wager that there is a good likelihood we'll be looking at a similar gap to the follow-up to Feast. I hate to say it, but I'm regretting picking up this series. I might just ditch it until the last book is out, but I doubt I could hold out that long... Can you imagine what decade that will be? 

Thank goodness Steven Erikson is on a (comparatively) decent release schedule, and thank goodness for Amazon Canada!


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## cignus_pfaccari (Feb 2, 2005)

Eric Anondson said:
			
		

> And I would wager that there is a good likelihood we'll be looking at a similar gap to the follow-up to Feast. I hate to say it, but I'm regretting picking up this series. I might just ditch it until the last book is out, but I doubt I could hold out that long... Can you imagine what decade that will be?




I'm 29.

I figure I can pick up the last book when I retire.

Brad


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## Pants (Feb 2, 2005)

Eric Anondson said:
			
		

> And I would wager that there is a good likelihood we'll be looking at a similar gap to the follow-up to Feast. I hate to say it, but I'm regretting picking up this series. I might just ditch it until the last book is out, but I doubt I could hold out that long... Can you imagine what decade that will be?



Feast has been taking so long because halfway through writing Dance with Dragons, Martin realized that he was glossing over too much material and had to go back and write Feast.  Sure, you could say that this represented a lack of planning on Martin's part (I'd probably agree), but the other two books came out within reasonable amounts of time of each other.

I hope that Feast is just a fluke.


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## stevelabny (Feb 2, 2005)

and in theory since Dancing with Dragons was "half-written" a lot of that can just be reworked as opposed to rewritten from scratch.

or so we hope.


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## Allanon (Feb 2, 2005)

stevelabny said:
			
		

> and in theory since Dancing with Dragons was "half-written" a lot of that can just be reworked as opposed to rewritten from scratch.
> 
> or so we hope.



 One problem with that hope is this. Georgie needs six years to write a book between books, he already has the beginning and the end and the fact that he feels he glosses over facts seems to suggest that the main part of the story was already thought up. Dancing with dragons however is only half finished, he probably got the beginning, and some of the main story line but nothing else. Thus I predict that it wil take him more than a decade to write an ending to that book. I only hope that DwD will be the final chapter.


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## Starman (Feb 2, 2005)

Allanon said:
			
		

> I only hope that DwD will be the final chapter.




That's a negative. Martin has stated several times that he is trying to keep the series to six book books, but it may spill into seven. Book six is titled The Winds of Winter. Book seven, should it be necessary, will be A Time for Wolves. 

Starman


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Feb 2, 2005)

Starman said:
			
		

> That's a negative. Martin has stated several times that he is trying to keep the series to six book books, but it may spill into seven. Book six is titled The Winds of Winter. Book seven, should it be necessary, will be A Time for Wolves.




Where were these titles announced? I know that he was always targeting 6 books, with a possibility of 7, but this is the first I've heard anything about the titles of the remaining books.


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## Allanon (Feb 2, 2005)

Six possibly seven books... As long as G.R.R.M. doesn't decide to go all 'Wheel of _Boring_ Time' on us I can live with that. Unless he decides that since one should/cannot rush art he can take 6 years per book for the remaining titles. In that case I would be 40 when he finishes the series .


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## Particle_Man (Feb 2, 2005)

While it is a problem for us, once the books are published it won't be a problem for newer readers.  So I will "think 4 dimensionally", wait, and judge the books on their own merits.

I am more worried that Martin might die before he finishes.


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## Belen (Feb 2, 2005)

Eh...I am tired of waiting on him and Jordan.  I will not rush out and get the next book.  Heck, I barely remember the other books now.  From what I heard, he stopped writing because of issues in the political world and then started again.

And his updates are just annoying.


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## Esteban (Feb 2, 2005)

BelenUmeria said:
			
		

> Eh...I am tired of waiting on him and Jordan.  I will not rush out and get the next book.  Heck, I barely remember the other books now.  From what I heard, he stopped writing because of issues in the political world and then started again.
> 
> And his updates are just annoying.



 Yep, he was all depressed about the election results so he just couldn't write. Don't care what side of the political spectrum you are on, that was a feeble excuse. I doubt most people who voted for Kerry called into work and told their boss that they couldn't come in for a month because of the election results.

Look, I love Martin, and was a huge fan of his scifi back in the 1980s. The Game of Thrones is quickly becoming my favorite series of all time. But, as Teflon Billy stated, five years is way too long to wait for an entry in a series.


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## KenM (Feb 2, 2005)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> Where were these titles announced? I know that he was always targeting 6 books, with a possibility of 7, but this is the first I've heard anything about the titles of the remaining books.




  What I heard was GRRM orginal planned it as a trilogy. But When he did an out line he thought it was too much and divided it into two triloiges, with 5 years between them. A Feast for Crows is a middle book between the two triloiges, not orginally planned. 
   I hope the reason this book is taking so long is that this was not orginally planned. I hope the other books come out at a faster pace.


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## MaxKaladin (Feb 2, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> What I heard was GRRM orginal planned it as a trilogy. But When he did an out line he thought it was too much and divided it into two triloiges, with 5 years between them. A Feast for Crows is a middle book between the two triloiges, not orginally planned.
> I hope the reason this book is taking so long is that this was not orginally planned. I hope the other books come out at a faster pace.



 Actually, I think he did that after book one or two was already out.  I remember reading book one and waiting for books two and three then hearing first that he'd only just decided that it would take four books and then later six books to do the series.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Feb 3, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> What I heard was GRRM orginal planned it as a trilogy. But When he did an out line he thought it was too much and divided it into two triloiges, with 5 years between them. A Feast for Crows is a middle book between the two triloiges, not orginally planned.




Yes, that's what happened. The decision was made to expand from 3 to 6 books while the trilogy was being shopped around to the sf publishing houses. The editor I used to work for (John Douglas) was talking to GRRM about the trilogy when he was bidding on it, and made the suggestion that it be divided into two trilogies, as the outline had far too much in it for a single trilogy. So once the original trilogy was sold, GRRM negotiated a second contract for the second trilogy. The 7th book came much later, after the first trilogy was complete. 

But I still want to know where Starman got the titles for the other books? It sounds like internet rumor to me, or those fake placeholder titles that Amazon occasionally makes up when trying to pre-sell a book.


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## Aesmael (Feb 3, 2005)

Not quite fake. The titles were printed in the first _Legends_ anthology and Martin has commented on them himself, I believe in the So Spake Martin archives at westeros.org (that's fan correspondence for those not familiar). He is/was not happy with 'A Time for Wolves', apparently that has been changed 'The Winds of Winter'.

My personal stance on the delay is to treat it as an aberration unless the same thing happens with the next book. Whenever it does show itself, I have a gift voucher waiting. Reading the entirety of the westeros discussion boards from the back does wonders for keeping one interested (I am still on the issues of '02 - some of the poor fools were still talking about the imminent release of Feast back then, I just hope the enlightened and interesting have not left the board by the time I catch up to the present).


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## Starman (Feb 3, 2005)

Yeah, Martin has mentioned the names of the books in some interviews and his fan correspondance. Let me hunt for some links here...

Here we go: http://www.dragonsworn.com/features/georgerrmartin/interview.html

That is a recent interview with Martin. He talks about his career, the series, taking forever on the latest book, etc. He mentions the titles of the two books after _Feast _ being _A Dance with Dragons_ and _The Winds of Winter_. 

Starman


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## mhacdebhandia (Feb 3, 2005)

In contradiction to what seems to be the general current of feeling, I will say this:

The man owes you *nothing* except a good follow-up to the books he's written before - not a *timely* followup nor anything else.

Incessant demands that authors cave in to their audience's demands leads to creative bankruptcy like Arthur Conan Doyle or, *shudder*, the Brian Herbert _Dune_ novels.


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## JoeGKushner (Feb 3, 2005)

I'd go even further.

The author owes us nothing and we in turn, owe the author nothing.

Expecting your audience to wait for six-seven years is not a sound business plan and if he was writing to feed his wife and kids, I guarantee that book would be in our hands.


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## mhacdebhandia (Feb 3, 2005)

Exactly. If you're dissatisfied with the product - the quality, the length of time it takes to arrive, whatever - then just don't buy it! Imagine that Danaerys takes off and nukes the site from orbit with dragonfire, it being the only way to be sure, and leave it at that.


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## KnowTheToe (Feb 3, 2005)

mhacdebhandia said:
			
		

> In contradiction to what seems to be the general current of feeling, I will say this:
> 
> The man owes you *nothing* except a good follow-up to the books he's written before - not a *timely* followup nor anything else.
> 
> Incessant demands that authors cave in to their audience's demands leads to creative bankruptcy like Arthur Conan Doyle or, *shudder*, the Brian Herbert _Dune_ novels.




I think we, the fans, do have a right to be frustrated.  I bought the books as they were going to be a trilogy, an expectation the author set.  He then changed his mind and expanded the series to ensure it met his vision.  I think most fans are fine with this change.  But in reading a series, readers have certain expectations and rightly so.  A 2 year wait between books is generally accepted, but 5-6 years is wrong and shows a lack of professionalism and commitment on the authors part.  Writing is a business and I can't believe the publisher has allowed him such a long break.  If GRRM keeps up his current creative pace it will be 15+ years before tha 7th book comes out.  IMO, if GRRM had the story developed it would not take hime 5 years to find inspiration to write it.  IMO, once the author comes out with that first book, he/she has a responsability to the fans and publisher to work on the other books in a timely fashion.  Hey if the books were seperate series or independant of each other, then take 10 years, I don't care, but these are not.


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## Particle_Man (Feb 3, 2005)

Ah, but that is the present generation of readers.  If the series holds up in quality, and the last book in the series comes out (say 25 years from now) then that generation of readers will come to the 7 books (assumption, but hey) series as a whole, with no waiting time in between.  Thus they will judge it by other criteria than waiting times, and the judgements of our generation re: waiting times will be rendered obsolete as far as criticism goes.

Just some fourth-dimensional musings...


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 3, 2005)

Martin's just taking this long to keep the heat off of JK Rowling.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Feb 3, 2005)

Starman said:
			
		

> Yeah, Martin has mentioned the names of the books in some interviews and his fan correspondance. Let me hunt for some links here...




Thanks!


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## ssampier (Feb 7, 2005)

Well, I'm hoping the gap between Feast and Dance is a lot shorter (two to three years at most). I'm fearing a Jordan here (which is weird since the series didn't take a nosedive until about book five or six).

Hmmm, maybe I should gather a list of book in between the series.


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## KenM (Feb 7, 2005)

Anyone know what issue of Dragon mag it was with the Song of Ice and Fire stuff in it? It had some Feast for Crows story in it or something.


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## Starman (Feb 7, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Anyone know what issue of Dragon mag it was with the Song of Ice and Fire stuff in it? It had some Feast for Crows story in it or something.




Google says it was #307, the May 2k3 issue.

Starman


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## KnowTheToe (Feb 7, 2005)

One thing made me nervous about the release of that chapter.  GRRM said he could release the chapter because it did not overly relate to the plot of the book and had no spoilers.  To me, that translated into a chapter with nothing but fluff without much context.  It reminded me of Jordan.  I did not read it because I saw little point on reading a chapter from the middle of a book that has yet to be released.  My guess is that chapter won't even make the new book, but was his and his publishers way to feed the starving fans.  I could be totally wrong as I never read the piece.


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## Pants (Feb 7, 2005)

Well, it'd would be Jordan-ish *only* if you changed it from 'just a chapter' to 'an entire book.'


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## Lord Pendragon (Feb 8, 2005)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> GRRM said he could release the chapter because it did not overly relate to the plot of the book and had no spoilers.  To me, that translated into a chapter with nothing but fluff without much context.



Characterization would fall into the category of "does not overly relate to the plot of the book and has no spoilers."  I'd hardly call characterization "fluff" though.


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## KnowTheToe (Feb 8, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> "  I'd hardly call characterization "fluff" though.




IMO, it can be, but since I have not read the blurb in question, I can't say if it indeed was in this instance.  I couldn't even say what characters were in the chapter.  If I remember correctly it was about the Greyjoy Clan and their thread in the story.


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## Psychic Warrior (Feb 9, 2005)

I think I'm done with A Song of Fire and Ice.  I really no longer care if another book ever comes out.


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## MacMathan (Feb 9, 2005)

Wow, I guess I just keep busy reading other stuff. I have never understood the hostility towards it taking a long time to write a book. The creative process can take a long time and takes a personal toll energy-wise so I can see it being many years between books. It is not like he is trying to just schlock something together quickly for cash, even though ti obvious from the demand he could, that is when most series go down the toilet. Explore other authors people.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Feb 9, 2005)

Luckily I have discovered the series a month ago, so waiting won`t be that terrible.


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## Avouz (Feb 9, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> I think I'm done with A Song of Fire and Ice.  I really no longer care if another book ever comes out.




Herein lies the problem with taking so long between volumes. I first got introduced to ASOIAF last year, so I've only been waiting a year or so for Feast of Crows. I can imagine a lot of GRRM's other fans starting to say stuff like this though.

By the time the series is finished, will there be any of us left?


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## Lord Pendragon (Feb 10, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> I think I'm done with A Song of Fire and Ice.  I really no longer care if another book ever comes out.



I find it interesting that waiting can dull your interest so much.  For me, I might stop _anticipating_ a new novel in a series that's taking a while to get out, but as soon as the next book hits the shelves I'm all over it like white on rice.

Time doesn't dull my enthusiasm for a great series, it only postpones it.

Bad books, now, _that_ will kill my enthusiasm.  Jordan seems to pump out his _Wheel of Time_ books fairly quickly, but I stopped caring about the series by book five.


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## Particle_Man (Feb 10, 2005)

Avouz said:
			
		

> Herein lies the problem with taking so long between volumes. I first got introduced to ASOIAF last year, so I've only been waiting a year or so for Feast of Crows. I can imagine a lot of GRRM's other fans starting to say stuff like this though.
> 
> By the time the series is finished, will there be any of us left?




Of course there will.  First of all, there are some fans (like me) that will wait 10 or 20 years to read the next books in the series, if that is what it takes.  We are patient.

Second, there are youngsters now that will grow up to become readers.  That will be true barring the end of the world/death of the author.  So that, when the last book in the series does come out, there will be people that have not yet read the first book in the series.  These people will be able to read all of the books, without any waiting period.


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## EricNoah (Feb 10, 2005)

MacMathan said:
			
		

> I have never understood the hostility towards it taking a long time to write a book.



Ditto.  No biggie to me -- of course I want to read the next one, but there's also something kind of cool about knowing that I might still be reading this series in my mid-40s!


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## JoeBlank (Feb 10, 2005)

I don't mind the wait, but I am concerned about remembering everything that has gone on before. I find so little time to read, I can't devote a large chunk to rereading the entire series every time a new book comes out.

Hopefully when the time comes I'll be able to find a decent summary somewhere. I seem to recall chapter-by-chapter recaps on a website, and that might be handy.


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## Asmo (Feb 10, 2005)

I just buy the books as they come out (and not reading them) and wait until he´s finished - I´m doing that with all series nowadays. Jordan learnt me that lesson.
( I hate when I don´t remember what happened in the previous book )


Asmo


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## jester47 (Feb 10, 2005)

I find it an interesting thing about literature these days:

There are a lot of writing techniques that allow you to shorten a story.  As time has gone on, much of these techniques are getting used less and less.  

I am talking about using character dialogue to treat flashback, include first person narration with third person narration, exchanges of letters and such to develop situations etc.   

There are ways to make a story shorter without loosing the story...  

Dunno just my opinion.  We seems to be loosing a bit of that...  We seem to be writing hard these days and not smart.

Aaron.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, but I really enjoy big books! What I love with fantasy epics as Martin or Jordan is that world is so well detailed and feels real, describing history, geography, culture, it needs to take space! 

By the way, how it is that people don`t have time for books nowadays? I am rereading Song of Ice and Fire second time in a month, and I happen to have a girlfriend and be above average student, not to mention playing in few online games.


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## jester47 (Feb 10, 2005)

I don't know if history geography and culture need the space.  I think there are many ways to describe them without taking up huge ammounts of space.

Aaron.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Feb 10, 2005)

Not sure, imagine you have to detail middle ages Europe in few pages of text.


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## jester47 (Feb 11, 2005)

I guess what I mean is that you can use your descriptions of things, dialogue, and action to indicate cultural diferences, geography, and history.  Really the history and culture should come out in the interaction of the characters and culture and geography should be evident in their actions.  

You could spend two paragraphs describing the watershed of a particular river, or you could simply say: 



> They had considered making a raft to take down the river, but the regular rapids on the river, not to mention the occasional waterfall made any sort of watercraft impractical.  After thier scouting was finished they returned to the camp where they discovered that Burlonoc has managed to stew up some rabbits with his Abyssinian Spices, a rare treat indeed so far north of those desert lands.
> 
> "Haha, I shot a few coneys while you were out.  They seem to practically infest the valley!  Getting these was a lot easier than that twelfve point buck that got away!"
> 
> ...




I cold have given a big essay on the river and why its rocky, filled with waterfalls, told you it has lots of rabbits and some deer living in it, with antbeds.   Or I can show you and move the story forward.  Just by showing we have also learned that there is a desert land called Abyssinia to the south and that rare spices come from such a place.  We also know that Burlonoc likes to tell exaggerated stories. I can tell you all about Burlonoc's sword Milorn or I can show you and tell you about it with comments made by the characters and their actions.  I can have a character see the sword and spend 2 pages exposeing to you his internal dialogue and reasons about why he wants to steal it and then have him steal it.  Or I can just have him steal it, and then later have him show up at the theives guild trying to sell it.   When asked why he is selling it we can get the story from his own mouth.   This keeps me from having to play my whole hand all at once.  I can leave stuff out and surprise you later.  

I am not sure how GRRM writes.  He may write in the same way.  But there are ways to layer the description so that you don't have to write so much.  If Martin does this then sign me up.  

Robert E. Howard was really good at putting a lot of description into just a few words.  

Aaron.


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## Lord Pendragon (Feb 11, 2005)

jester47 said:
			
		

> But there are ways to layer the description so that you don't have to write so much.



Not all authors believe the point of a story is to get to the end as quickly as possible.  Now, granted, some authors take wordiness to extremes (Janny Wurts, I'm looking at you!) but that doesn't mean that brevity is the cardinal virtue of a good novel/series.

Tad Williams writes big books.  A lot of that text is descriptive prose that is, IMO, so well-written that it reads like poetry.  It's one of the reasons that I enjoy reading him.  Do I wish that he had cut out all that prose and replaced it with something akin to what you wrote, to get me to the ending faster?  Absolutely not.  If a series is good, I'll enjoy it every step of the way, whether the novels are as thin as _A Wizard of Earthsea_ or as hefty as _To Green Angel Tower_.

That being said, GRRM's novels are packed with action.  His books may be released at a slow pace, but they don't read at one.


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## JoeBlank (Feb 11, 2005)

Melkor said:
			
		

> By the way, how it is that people don`t have time for books nowadays? I am rereading Song of Ice and Fire second time in a month, and I happen to have a girlfriend and be above average student, not to mention playing in few online games.




Oh, for the days when all I had to worry about was school, a girlfriend, and games. Please, don't think I am being sarcastic or judgmental. If reading novels was my absolute highest priority, I could make time for it, and in fact I have at many times, such as for the EN World Book Club. 

I have a wife and 3 young sons. My average weekday begins at 6 a.m., when I get up to shower and get ready for work. I then wake my 6-year-old son and get him on the path the getting ready for school, wake my wife and head off to work. On most days, I am home about 5:30. Family stuff, including dinner at the table without television, interactions with the kids, baths and story time, usually take us past 8:00. The wife and I watch a select few television shows, which are usually taped from a few days before. Some nights there is no tv.., some we watch an hour or two, and that does not include movies. The rest of my evening is free for reading, but this is not all novels, as it includes gaming material, the newspaper, EN World, and also planning for DMing. I'm usually asleep by 11:00.

Weekends I sometimes get more reading done, but also have school projects with the kids, extracurricular activities, home and yard chores, gaming, church, and other social activities with friends and extended family.

I still manage to read novels, but not as much as I used to. I'm not complaining, that is just the place am I in right now. It seems like every time I finish one book I add two to my to-read list. Based on a quick count off the top of my head, I've read about a dozen novels over the past year, plus numerous short stories.


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## jester47 (Feb 11, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> Not all authors believe the point of a story is to get to the end as quickly as possible.  Now, granted, some authors take wordiness to extremes (Janny Wurts, I'm looking at you!) but that doesn't mean that brevity is the cardinal virtue of a good novel/series.




I wasn't saying they SHOULD be shorter, I was saying that if the text reads like:

Essay on River valley, natural history, ecology, history
Conversation and events of story
+internal thoughts and motivations of character deeply analysed
+action finally comitted, statement finally said
Lack of ability to leave third person Omniscient

then it could probably be written better. 

The method above makes for a lot of words to a story that could be written in half the time and be more interesting with half the words.  I think if a story is written with many layers of description and very economicly and is still the width of a phone book, more power to the writer.

Aaron.


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## Lord Pendragon (Feb 11, 2005)

jester47 said:
			
		

> I wasn't saying they SHOULD be shorter, I was saying that if the text reads like:
> 
> Essay on River valley, natural history, ecology, history
> Conversation and events of story
> ...



Fair enough.

Rest assured, GRRM doesn't write like this.  It's just a matter of a lot happening in his books.  He also likes to use characterization passages (such as scenes between Tyrion and Shae), which are not entirely relevant to the main plotline of the story, but provide further insight into the characters on which they focus.

To me, GRRM's books _read_ like much shorter books, because there's so much going on.  Rarely can I recall coming to a long, boring passage about weather, or what people are wearing, or women tugging on their braids, etc. etc.


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## Psychic Warrior (Feb 11, 2005)

MacMathan said:
			
		

> Wow, I guess I just keep busy reading other stuff. I have never understood the hostility towards it taking a long time to write a book. The creative process can take a long time and takes a personal toll energy-wise so I can see it being many years between books. It is not like he is trying to just schlock something together quickly for cash, even though ti obvious from the demand he could, that is when most series go down the toilet. Explore other authors people.




Read Harlan Ellison.  He has some most interesting ideas on the 'creative' process of writing and has open contempt for those writers saying writing is 'too hard' or take exessive amounts of time writing their 'masterpieces'.  I guess that's where my hostility comes from - I just used Harlan Ellison's


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## ShadowDenizen (Feb 11, 2005)

> I just buy the books as they come out (and not reading them) and wait until he´s finished - I´m doing that with all series nowadays. Jordan learnt me that lesson.




Same here with a few exceptions. (I already read anythign by Tad Williams or Janny Wurts as it comes out: they're also some fo teh few authors I'll buy in hardback.)

Seriously, thought, even a relatively straightforawrd, innocous series like "War of the Spider Queen" has taken nearly three years to complete!!


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## JohnClark (Feb 19, 2005)

I can understand everyones frustration with the time lag between books, but I'd rather have him get it right than get it out the door quickly. Of course, that's easy for me to say, since I just started in on the series two months ago, and am only know beginning storm of swords.


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## ssampier (Feb 19, 2005)

I'm not sure if I agree completely with the Jordan comparison. I think a better comparison would be George Lucas. I think the first three movies are best, since he had time and budget limitations. The prequels are terrible, in my mind, since they do too much and he forgot what made his movies so great in the first place, doing a lot with a little (simple story about young man who goes on adventure).

I'll give George the benefit of the doubt. However, I don't want the delay of book four to give him the excuse for his writing to suffer. I expect Feast to be as good as Book I - III.  I just hope George R.R. Martin isn't doing too much.


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## Teflon Billy (Feb 20, 2005)

ssampier said:
			
		

> I just hope George R.R. Martin isn't doing too much.




He--almost by defnition--_isn't_ 

He seems to be doing very, very little.


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## KnowTheToe (Feb 20, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> He--almost by defnition--_isn't_
> 
> He seems to be doing very, very little.


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## Aesmael (Feb 24, 2005)

Asmo said:
			
		

> I just buy the books as they come out (and not reading them) and wait until he´s finished - I´m doing that with all series nowadays. Jordan learnt me that lesson.
> ( I hate when I don´t remember what happened in the previous book )
> 
> 
> Asmo



Just hope you don't end up collecting any series that you later realise you do not like at all. Do you at least give them a test run before you start collecting?


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