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## Pergentile

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## Pergentile

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## RUMBLETiGER

The Apprentice/Mentor feat from DMGII grants a mini-cohort.  can be taken in addition to Leadership.


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## Dandu

Let's think about Might Makes Right for a moment. Can you think of any way to get an insanely high strength score? I can. War Hulk.

Also, Cancer Mage, but that's cheating.


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## Pergentile

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## Pergentile

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## Dandu

Er... could you edit it so that build never showed up? I was trying to paste a different build, which I will edit into the above post momentarily.


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## Particle_Man

Are you going to mention choice of followers at all?  Because "warlock followers" is a pretty good way to get at least some combat use out of them (and it is easy to keep the paperwork down to a minimum too).


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## Pergentile

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## RUMBLETiGER

I had hijacked a thread on RPG.net about Optimizing leadership- Followers.  I listed out in one post ways to make the most out of followers, and 4 posts on specific level 1 follower builds I was using.

(Disclaimer: the following is likely to fall under the category of "shenanigans".  See non-shenanigan ideas below)  

Granted, the following assumes a RIDICULOUS degree of micromanaging the selection of NPC, DM controlled individuals.  Not likely to ever see any gameplay, but still a great mental exercise.

1. Human Necropolis template Cloistered Cleric with Undeath Doman for Extra Turning, Extra Turning feat for extra turning, and Sacred Boost feat to maximize _Cure_ spells cast that round so the players could cast the higher level _Cure _spells in the boosted areas he created.  He also had +13 in all knowledge checks which made him a decent walking library.

2. Human Mineral Warrior template with burrow speed thru stone and skillpoints into craft (trapmaking).  Falling spiked pit traps, underground tunnels, burrowed night camp spots for a spin on the "your party is camping in the woods tonight" scenarios.  

3. Warforged Amphibious template shapeshift-variant Druid.  Animal night-watchman and underwater retrieval expert.  

4. Synad Psion telepath with 12 pp at first level, specializing in the Mindlink power to network communication between up to 5 characters twice per day for 10 minutes at a time.

(Some non-shenanigan ideas... Maybe. At least less-shenanigany)
Other things like having: 
-each follower know common and one other language to serve as an interpreter for you
-have a Changeling follower to do light, covert infiltration
-have a wizard or Sorcerer follower with a common-speaking raven familiar to scout and send messages
-creative uses for Gold Dragon Blood Elixir (ah Gold Dragon Blood Elixir, how I love you and your many uses!)
-Warlock followers that not only Eldritch Blast, but through least invocations can also _see invisibility_, have Darkvision, battlefield control with _Darkness_ and Miasmic Cloud and Breath of Night, _Shatter _ability to break doors and things, _Comprehend Languages_ for written material, _Speak with Animals_, have Scent, get +6 bonus on Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), and Knowledge (the planes), or gain underwater breathing and a swim speed.


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## RUMBLETiGER

Pergentile said:


> The Apprentice is an NPC though, and so is chosen and played by the DM, just like followers. This also requires two feats and a lot of dedication. The apprentice also doesn't accompany the Mentor on journeys unless asked as a favor, which decreases your Mentor score. It really isn't an optimized option, and the result is nothing like a Cohort. Thanks for the suggestion though.




DMGII p.179 "When the apprentice reaches 5th level, he graduates and follows the mentor as a cohort, as if she had the Leadership feat."
I do agree, this is not an optimized option, you end up with a Cohort 4 or more levels lower than yours.  The Apprentice feat turns into the Mentor feat, so you really only end up requiring 1 feat.  It does require a lot of dedication.  But it _does _produce a second cohort alongside the Leadership feat.


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## RUMBLETiGER

Do you have room for your Cohort to take the Leadership feat, who in turn has his/her Cohort take leadership, and the resulting Leadership Cheese?

I'm falling way too much into shenanigans, aren't I?


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## Ashtagon

> Regardless of a character’s Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself.




That puts a definite cap on how high it is worth pumping your Leadership. Looking at the table, there's also an absolute maximum of 17th level for any cohort, regardless of your Leadership score.

Leadership score is generally equal to level + Charisma modifier. A +5 bonus at 19th level (slowly falling as you reduce the character level) is sufficient to get your best possible cohort.

Frankly, if you can't get a character level +5 bonus on Leadership by 20th level, you might be playing to lose. It's trivially easy if you are focusing in that direction.


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## RUMBLETiGER

ok, more seriously, would the handbook have a build including a Dragon Cohort feat build?


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## Pergentile

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## Pergentile

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## Dandu

I think so. It's in the Draconomicon.


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## Pergentile

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## RUMBLETiGER

Libris Mortis also has guidelines for an Undead Cohort and followers.  I'd imagine a solid build could be designed around that, especially with the undead that reproduce themselves, such as a Ghoul cohort, Shadow cohort or Wight cohort.


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## RUMBLETiGER

Looking forward to this Handbook. Let us know how we can help!


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## Ashtagon

Pergentile said:


> Improved Cohort is a feat that gives +1 Leadership and increases your Cohorts level by one, while also increasing its max level to one level lower then you. This gives you a max 18th level cohort pre-epic and allows it to progress just as if your character died and had been ressurrected... one level behind the party.




ok, so with that feat, your cohort's maximum level becomes 18. The Leadership table goes pretty high, and the final entry is "25+ Leadership", which notes a maximum cohort level of 17, or 18 with that feat.


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