# (OT) Shopping For Computer: Help?



## DarkJester (Nov 1, 2002)

My computer has about had it, and that really bothers me. I use my computer everyday and keep all my D&D stuff on it. My computer is a 433 mhz compaq and its pretty much garbage. I can't play hardly any games on it and it freezes constantly.

I've looked into both Dell and Gateway computers, I'm looking to get something with some umph to it, and they seem to be the two leading competitors (Or at least the best advertised, as I know NOTHING about computers themselves).  

Anyone have any advice as to shopping for a computer? I don't want to spend an extra thousand dollars on a inferior computer or anything. The two I have looked at (So far) Dell Dimsension 8250 and the Gateway 500x. As far as I can tell the gateway one is 1500 bucks cheaper and has pretty much everything the dell has, am i missing something here?


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## BadMojo (Nov 1, 2002)

In general, I would probably recommend Dell over Gateway.  I didn't really compare the two systems you mentioned, but my personal bias is toward Dell (although it's something of a "lesser of two evils" thing).

I'm not sure what your budget is like, but you might want to consider one of the companies that specializes in high end gaming rigs.  If Dell & Dimenion are your Ford and Chevy, Voodoo PC, Falcon Northwest and Alienware are your BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar (pre-Ford buyout minus the leaking oil). 

http://www.voodoopc.com/systems/
http://www.alienware.com
http://www.falcon-nw.com/

Keep in mind that these computers will generally be more expensive than Dell or Gateway systems, but you will be getting more high end components in the Voodoo, Alienware or Falcon machines.

I know Falcon has a "budget" line of gaming systems, so that might be worth checking out.  Voodoo & Alienware might have something similar.  Everything I've read has said that these three companies have excellent support and service.  I would seriously give these some consideration if they are anywhere near your budget.


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## CrusaderX (Nov 1, 2002)

I'll be purchasing a new Dell system in January.  Prices should drop after Christmas, so if you can wait a few months, you might get a better deal.

Dell is a very good name.  For the very best performance, I'm going to get the following:

Processor speed - at least 2 GHz

Memory - a solid 1 GB

Video Card - 128 MB Radeon Pro

And I'm also getting a 120 GB Hard Drive.  You probably don't need specs quite that high, but I don't mind paying a little more to get a very robust and capable system that can handle any game I throw at it.

And if you're getting Windows XP, you should probably get at least 512 MB of memory.  XP runs much smoother with more memory under the hood.

Oh, and get a decent warranty, too.  Peace of mind is one crucial "feature" that alot of folks overlook.  IMO, peace of mind is the most important spec of all.

BTW, alot of folks will tell you to assemble your own system from scratch.  Which is a good route to take, if you know what you're doing.  If you don't want the hassle, though (even though the process is fairly painless), I'd highly recommend a Dell, and just let them do all the work and worrying for you.


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## Eridanis (Nov 1, 2002)

For the love of Pete, don't buy a *laptop* from Dell. I've bought three for work in the past year and a half, and every one of them has needed major work (ie, replace HD, mobo, or monitor).

The Dell desktops have been more reliable, but if you have the cash, I'd suggest going with on of the boutique builders mentioned above.

Of course, building your own is the most fun, but not for the faint of heart, the inexperienced, or both.


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## Darkness (Nov 2, 2002)

You must be planning to buy a quite incredible computer, given that you started this thread in Sci-Fi Discussion... 

Moved to GD.


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## DarkJester (Nov 2, 2002)

Again, I know nothing about computers. I went to the Voodoo site and checked there stuff out. It's within the outer limits of what I would be willing to pay for a pc..... just barely. I through one together based on what some of my friends told me and other  Input.

This is what I came up with:



> Voodoo E-Class Gaming Personal Computer
> Voodoo Standard LIFETIME Upgrade & Restoration Insurance
> Voodoo Disaster Recovery System II
> Black Voodoo 1.44 Megabyte Floppy Disk Drive
> ...




Am I missing anything vital up there? Or anything that I wouldn't really need?


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## Numion (Nov 2, 2002)

I bought a Dell 2.4 GHz system with GeForce 4 about two months ago and haven't regretted it. At least here it was much cheaper than all other systems. My friends have bought systems piece-by-piece and they're much more expensive. (My comp is also quiet and stylish compared to theirs, but thats beside the point, eh?)

Be sure to get 512 megs of memory straight from the beginning; I had 256 at first, and now that I have the 512 it's noticeably better. You'll see when you try to load Battlefield 1942, for example. I also had 40 gigs of HD, but it filled after three weeks (cable modem), and now I have 160 gigs total. 

But then again people like to defend their choices no matter what when it comes to spending money


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## Mystic Eye (Nov 2, 2002)

Try www.ibuypower.com. They make machine similar to Falcon and Alienware but are less expensive. Good service, fast deilivery and great deals. Get the new 8X AGP video cards like the Radion with 128 MB on board ans SB audigy with a good 5.1 surround sound speaker set.


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## DarkJester (Nov 2, 2002)

40 Gigs full in 3 weeks? Wow.... I have 10 Gigs atm and its only half full. Guess I don't download much.....


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## drothgery (Nov 2, 2002)

Err, there's a lot that you won't really need, but if you're going to spend that much, go ahead and get 2.8 GHz P4 and XP Pro.

Otherwise, here's a nice Dell setup, quite similar to what I'd buy if I were shopping today (instead of in 6-9 months, when I actually will be).

For a little less than $1400...

Dell Dimension 4550 Series:   Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.53GHz with 533MHz system bus/ 512K L2 Cache
Memory:   512MB DDR SDRAM at 333MHz
Keyboard:   Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard
Monitors:   17in (16.0 viewable,.25dp)M782 Flat CRT Monitor
Video Cards:   New 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4™ Ti 4200 Graphics Card with TV Out and DVI
Hard Drive:   Save $40! (savings included in price) 80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive
Floppy Drive:   3.5 in Floppy Drive
Operating System:   Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Mouse:   Logitech® Optical USB Mouse
Network Interface:   Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet
Modem:   56K PCI Telephony Modem
CD or DVD Drive:   16x Max DVD-ROM Drive
Sound Card:   Integrated Audio
Speakers:   New Harman Kardon® HK-206 Speakers
Software Bundles:   Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 with Money Standard
Virus Protection:   Norton AntiVirus™ 2002, 90-day introductory offer
Digital Music:   Dell Jukebox powered by MusicMatch
Digital Photography:   Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options:   2 Year Limited Warranty plus 2 Year At-Home Service
Internet Access Service:   6 Months of America Online Membership Included
Protect Your System:   Belkin Surgemaster Gold Power
CD or DVD Burner for 2nd bay:   FREE Upgrade! 40x/10x/40x Max CD-RW Drive


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## DarkJester (Nov 2, 2002)

Whats the difference between a 2.53 Gig and 2.8 ? Is it noticeable? And whats the difference between XP and XP Pro.

I plan on using the computer for gaming (Want the best for it) and internet mostly. No video processing or anything.


Can one of the Dell's play all the latest games? They said that the one im using now could when I bought it 3 years ago.... It could for about 6 months.


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## Numion (Nov 2, 2002)

DarkJester said:
			
		

> *40 Gigs full in 3 weeks? Wow.... I have 10 Gigs atm and its only half full. Guess I don't download much..... *




Well.. to be honest, lot of it was taken up by movies and music videos. i had around 100 music videos and several movies. About 10 gigs in a few games, so that explains the space. Now that I got the additional 120 gig drive, I shouldn't have that kind of problems for a while.

the reason for this whole thing is our campus network, from which you can DL at about 3 minutes per movie (700 megs), so it doesn't take much effort to fill any size of HD.


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## Numion (Nov 2, 2002)

DarkJester said:
			
		

> *
> Can one of the Dell's play all the latest games? They said that the one im using now could when I bought it 3 years ago.... It could for about 6 months. *




My 2.4 GHz Dell had problems with Battlefield 1942 when it had the original 256 megs of memory (when there was lot of action on the screen); now that I've upgraded to 512 megs it runs no problemo. I suspect though that the code of the BF 1942 isn't that optimal, since no other game caused any problems before it.


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## BadMojo (Nov 2, 2002)

DarkJester said:
			
		

> *Whats the difference between a 2.53 Gig and 2.8 ? Is it noticeable? And whats the difference between XP and XP Pro.
> 
> I plan on using the computer for gaming (Want the best for it) and internet mostly. No video processing or anything.
> 
> ...




I sincerely doubt that you would notice the difference between 2.53 & 2.8ghz P4's.  Where you would notice a difference is between the GeForce4 Ti 4200 and the Radeon.  The Radeon is MUCH faster and more "future proof" than the GeForce 4 4200.

Off the top of my head I can only think of one big difference between XP Home and Pro that doesn't involve networking...XP Pro can make use of a multi-processor system, and AFAIK XP Home can't.  I wouldn't worry too much about the Home vs. Pro thing.

The Dell system mentioned earlier in the thread is certainly a respectable one, but like most large OEMs, they cut corners in a few places.  The GeForce 4 Ti 4200 is by no means a hardcore gaming card.  It is the bottom of the line GeForce4 card (the GeForce4 Mx really doesn't count).  It's still a nice card, but it can't compete with a GeForce4 Ti 4400/4600 or a Radeon 9700 Pro.  The integrated audio and the HK speakers are not on par with the Soundblaster Audigy/Logitech pairing.  Every integrated audio solution I've ever encountered can't match the sound quality of a Soundblaster or Turtle Beach card.  The modem in the Dell system is most likely a worthless hunk of garbage, but that won't matter if you have DSL or cable modem.  They didn't mention the brand and model of hard drive offered, but it probably won't match up with the Western Digital.  The WD has an 8MB buffer compared to 2MB for most of the HDs you will find in Dell, etc.

Make no mistake, the Voodoo PC is very expensive.  $3000+ is a lot of money.  The Dell that was mentioned here would probably do pretty well on most of the newest games out there, and it's half the price of the Voodoo.  It's not a gaming hot rod, but its a decent "all around" computer.  You don't want to spend over your budget for something that will still probably be on the road to obsolescence within a year.

One last thing to consider is upgradability.  You might want to read some stuff at the Dell and Voodoo sites regarding upgrade policies.


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## Emiricol (Nov 2, 2002)

Check out www.micropro.com.


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## Mirth (Nov 2, 2002)

[Puts on flame-retardent suit, gloves, boots & helmet]

You want dependability? Why not get a Macintosh and play all your games on an Xbox or PS2?

[Argggh! It burns! It burns!]


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## Kibo (Nov 2, 2002)

DarkJester said:
			
		

> *Whats the difference between a 2.53 Gig and 2.8 ? Is it noticeable? And whats the difference between XP and XP Pro.
> 
> I plan on using the computer for gaming (Want the best for it) and internet mostly. No video processing or anything.
> 
> Can one of the Dell's play all the latest games? They said that the one im using now could when I bought it 3 years ago.... It could for about 6 months. *




If you can hold off you might want to wait a few more months for Serial ATA to shake out, and the new intel core to be available maybe with some nice tweakable chipsets.

For value performance, I'd probably lean towards a decent AMD XP setup.  But since you seem a little more inclined to just purchase them from a major manufacture, you'll probably be able to get a nice deal the two weeks prior to chistmas.  A good choice might be an alienware pc from Best Buy (or anyplace that carries higher end gaming pcs).  Going with something like that, you won't have quite as much flexability as once you chose off the web, but those are the breaks.  The geforce cards are nice, and should be capable of playing games acceptably for a couple more years.  But if you care about anti-aliasing the benchmarks seem to favor the new ATI 9700 Pro, greatly.  Make sure you get an agp 8x mother board.  Even if you end up getting a 4x card, you'll be able to upgrade for $300 and add new life to your future aging game system.  But if I at all could I'd wait to see the new intel core (it's not just a faster clock, it's got new features that could provide a significant performance boost) and Serial ATA HD's.

The best part about being able to wait is everything gets cheaper and faster.


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## Aeolius (Nov 2, 2002)

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *You want dependability? Why not get a Macintosh and play all your games on an Xbox or PS2?*




   Drat! you beat me to it  The new G4 towers running OS X "Jaguar" (10.2) beat anything I have used, thusfar.


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## Corwyn (Nov 2, 2002)

If you want a good machine build one yourself or go to a shop that will build it for you.

I'm upgrading my system at the moment and I'm planning on getting the
asus A7V333 Mobo 
amd 2000 xp cpu
with 512 mb pc 2700 memory (any more than this is a waste of money at this moment, unless you are running a server)
take a geforce 4 (for high end graphics and games take one with 126 mb memory)
Hard disk anything in the 60+range that runs on 7200 rpm.
that should get you a decent and relatively cheep system. 

This type of set-up allows you to upgrade it later with relative ease.

Systems like a dell internal components usually aren't A quality and also don't allow for easy upgrading as there are usually built to only allow for the original components.

Hope that helps


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## drothgery (Nov 2, 2002)

DarkJester said:
			
		

> *Whats the difference between a 2.53 Gig and 2.8 ? Is it noticeable? And whats the difference between XP and XP Pro.
> 
> I plan on using the computer for gaming (Want the best for it) and internet mostly. No video processing or anything.
> 
> ...




The thing is that the system you set up was a long way from cost-effective. You could buy what I set up, which is way more than enough for any games that are out today (which have to run on P3/GeForce 2 systems and run well on sub-2GHz P4s), then in two years spend what you saved on a new box that would be far better than the system you outlined. So if you're wasting money anyway, you might as well go all out. If not, scale back to something more reasonable.

What I have right now -- a P-3 800 where only the memory and video card are less than two years old (I've upgraded to 512MB of RAM and a GeForce 4 Ti4200) -- can still _almost_ play all the latest games, as long as you're not trying to beat obsessed fanboys with tons of disposable income in FPS games.

The combo of a fast P4 or Athlon XP, 512 MB of DDR 333 memory (don't bother with RAMBUS unless you've got money to burn), and a GeForce 4 Ti or Radeon 8500 (or better) will be a good box for quite a while. Generally speaking, the price premium for the absolute best isn't worth it.


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## zorlag (Nov 2, 2002)

*Videocards*

If you want so called "future-proof" videocard, I'll suggest one of these:

1. Radeon 9700pro or Radeon 9700 128 meg

- Fastest chip available at moment. Driver situation bit shaky, but getting better fast. Great picture quality and fast anistropic filtering (very good rendering texture quality). If you want to use highest graphics settings in games, this is your ticket.

2. Geforce4 Ti4200, Ti4400 or Ti4600 128meg

- Fast and reliable. Somewhat cheaper than 9700 radeon and drivers are more reliable. Poor anistropic filtering speed (quality is good) but has pretty good FSAA (Full Scene Antialiasing, smoothens out jagged edges in 3d games).

3. Radeon 9000pro, Radeon 8500 or Radeon 8500le 128 meg

- Good casual gamer and user cards. These have good picture quality, decent drivers and are very affordable. Speedwise rated they are: 8500 > 9000pro = 8500le (le is faster if you overclock).

Other chipsets are either too expensive (Matrox Parhelia), have poor rendering quality (Sis Xabre) or too slow (Kyro II) to recommed. I suggest you buy card with 128 memory since there already are games that are faster with 128 memory than 64 (Unreal Tournament 2003, Jedi Knight II for example).

Z.


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## Psionicist (Nov 3, 2002)

Corwyn said:
			
		

> *with 512 mb pc 2700 memory (any more than this is a waste of money at this moment, unless you are running a server)*




That is one of the most ignorant and false statements in this whole thread. If you encode lots of music, do heavy graphics/modelling and video editing, you will surely benefit from more than those 512mb RAM, and these are far from "server" tasks.

And now for something completely different (... or not really):

*Videocard*
As zorlag said, sort off. The FSAA performance of nvidia's cards basically, sucks. At least compared to Radeon 9700. The performance of a Ti4600 WITH 4xFSAA is 70% slower than without any FSAA. Compare this with 40% slower fro the Radeon 9700.

However, also not that those cheap ass Ti4200 ($150 or so) can overclock to at least Ti4400 speeds (not to hard to push it past the Ti4600 cards). That's $150 for good performance. The Radeon 9700 is $350 or so?

Anyhow, if you want the best, get the Radeon 9700 Pro, not something offbrand like powercolor, go Hercules or Ati (but those Ati-engineered cards are f**king expansive).



			
				Corwyn said:
			
		

> *The combo of a fast P4 or Athlon XP, 512 MB of DDR 333 memory (don't bother with RAMBUS unless you've got money to burn), and a GeForce 4 Ti or Radeon 8500 (or better) will be a good box for quite a while. Generally speaking, the price premium for the absolute best isn't worth it.*




We all know that RAMBUS stinks as a company, but the memory technology is still way better than one channel DDR, particularly for the quad pumped P4 platforum. You see, with DDR, the memory bus will get out of sync from the CPU bus. This is not the case with RDRAM. DDR, the first D is for dual. Lets say the FSB is 133 and you use a memory timing of 1:1, that's a memory clock of 266 MHz. The CPU bus is quadpumped, or 133*4, or 533 MHz. That is not so good.

However, with some nice quadpumped PC1066 RDRAM at x4 (133 fsb), the memory frequency is 533, the same as the CPU.

P4 with RDRAM is much "snappier" and feels more responsive and faster than a P4 with DDR.



			
				Kibo said:
			
		

> *If you can hold off you might want to wait a few more months for Serial ATA to shake out, and the new intel core to be available maybe with some nice tweakable chipsets.*




I hardly belive we will se Serial ATA here in "the west" this year. Sure, Maxtor have created some disks and a whole lot of mobo companies put SATA support on their newer releases, but the technology is still in a very early state and I doubt there will be any noticable performance increase in "todays" SATA disks. However, I do belive the technology has some potential, but... not this year.

If you want a decent storage subsystem, get SCSI. You can get a really nice 36GB Cheetah (U160 interface, 15000 RPM - Yes, I am aware of U320, NO, don't bother with your 32bit PCI slots) and a controller card (LSI or Mylex perhaps? A big no for overpriced adaptec crap) for $300-$400.

And then get something large for datastorage. Put the apps and OS on SCSI and everyhing else on one of those 120GB (or so) IDE disks.


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## Zappo (Nov 3, 2002)

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *You want dependability? Why not get a Macintosh and play all your games on an Xbox or PS2?*



You know, I won't flame you. Instead, I'll just agree. Get a used computer at, say, 800 Mhz. You save literally thousands of dollars, since if you don't game 800 Mhz will be enough for anything (save video editing), and you get to play games that are just as good and more reliable. Since you've survived with a 433 Mhz until now, I reckon you are not really a heavy gamer, and as such you won't really suffer if every now and then a title comes out which you can't play. Unless you only play adventures, RPGs, and RTSs, you can game happily with a console and spend that money on a nice holiday or whatever you feel like. And by the way, with a 833 Mhz computer, a decent video card (Radeon 8500, eg), and a good bunch of RAM, you can play any current game. I have that configuration, and I run Morrowind fine, which is considered one of the heaviest games around, and any other game I tried excellently (or, it can run browser+email client+paint shop+word+excel+visual C+zangband+antivirus+firewall+something else without noticeable delay).


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## Heretic Apostate (Nov 3, 2002)

Two things that pop into my (computer semi-literate) mind.

1)  If you're buying a warranty (and that's important enough to consider), find out where you'll have to take it to get serviced.  I found out that the two closest places to get my computer serviced were 60 and 80 minutes away.  (Which contributed immensely to my getting hit in a rear-end collision....)

2)  Don't obsess with top-of-the-line stuff.  There is a pricing structure used in electronics and computers.  When stuff comes out, it's high priced.  _*VERY*_ high priced.  That's because there are people out there who will pay top dollar for stuff just for bragging rights.  (Keep in mind, also, that games take years to develop, so most games start out designed for older components.  If you spend all that money on top-line components, it may be a year or two before anyone puts out something to challenge the components.  And even then, the publisher of that game would be shooting themselves in the foot, because how many people are REALLY going to be able to play the game with their older components?)

I'd rather buy older but reliable components, which have serious discounts compared to initial release.  And NEXT time, I'm going to find someone who has associate authorized repair centers closer by.  30 minutes would be nice.


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## Xeriar (Nov 3, 2002)

For one, you probably don't need more than half a gigabyte of RAM.  Modern PC's will top out at 2-4 gigs, it's better to start on the lower end of that and wait until getting 2-4 gigs is pretty cheap.

If you're not seriously into gaming or rendering, there's no need to get their fastest card.

Try to get as little software as possible...  Compaqs are terrible about this.

Perhaps the two most important components of your PC are your power supply and your motherboard.  If you have the option of getting better MB's / Power Supplies, go for it.  A good motherboard and power supply will take very very good care of the rest of your computer.

Once you've got your PC, you should find a friend who is comfortable with the run settings in your registry.  They should be able to walk you through and filter out unwanted junk programs that start up without your knowledge.


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## Psionicist (Nov 3, 2002)

Xeriar said:
			
		

> *For one, you probably don't need more than half a gigabyte of RAM.  Modern PC's will top out at 2-4 gigs, it's better to start on the lower end of that and wait until getting 2-4 gigs is pretty cheap.
> 
> If you're not seriously into gaming or rendering, there's no need to get their fastest card.
> 
> ...




True, the motherboard and power supply are very important compnentes in your computer. For power supply, I'd recommend Antec Truepower or almost anything from PC Power & Cooling (www.pcpowerandcooling.com). Asus and Abit create good motherboards, so do Epox, MSI and a whole lots of other companies.

If, and note IF you buy a preassembled computer from one of the larger companies, I'd suggest you to call your local computer geek friend, do a format c: and reinstall the OS and all drivers. Most OEM companies install a whole lots of crap, old/bloated drivers, odd operating systems and so on.


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## DarkJester (Nov 3, 2002)

What is a network card? Will I need one to get on the internet or anything important like that?

I worry about not geting something  top of the line..... I bought this computer (Not top of the line at the time ...or ever for that matter) to play games on and it only took a few months for me to not be able to play any of the games I wanted to.

I rather pay 3000$ for something I can still play edgy games on in 2-3 years than 2000$ for one I can't. Or is that not the case?

I really don't want something that will be obsolete quickly, because I probly won't be able to buy another computer for a couple years.


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## drothgery (Nov 3, 2002)

By your comments, I'm pretty sure that you don't even want to think about building your own box. Here's what I'd keep in mind

1. A fully decked out system (over $2500 before shipping and taxes) might have six months more usable life on the latest games than a more reasonably configured (about $1500 before shipping and taxes) one. And regular minor upgrades (like spending <$150 on more RAM or a new video card) can extend the useable life of a PC by a year or two.

2. No matter what you buy, in six months there were be significantly faster CPUs and video cards available for the same amount of money.

3. Even a low-end new system today is much faster than what you've got, and is probably quite capable of playing the latest games, or would be with inexpensive upgrades.

4. As other have mentioned, there's a large price premium for the highest-end products.

5. Adding memory or a new video card is not difficult, and next year's "budget" video cards will perform the same as this year's high-end cards.

So what I'd recommend doing is deciding how much you're going to spend, and if there are any components from your old computer that you want to keep (if you've got a high-quality, large monitor, there's no point in getting a new one). Then go to Dell.com and Gateway.com and configure a system that fits in your budget.

Hint: if you're spending over $2500, look at Dell's Dimension 8250 line, otherwise look at the Dimension 4550 line; stay away from the Dimension 2300 line, which has an overly budget-oriented design that makes it a terrible gamer's machine, and the 8200 line, which isn't significantly faster than the 4550 line, but costs more. I don't think the extra cost of the 8250 (which uses PC1066 RDRAM) is worth it, but if you're a hardcore gamer with money to burn, you might thing otherwise.


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## Lord Zardoz (Nov 4, 2002)

*My advice...*

The amount of money you intend to spend on your computer is secondary to what you need to be able to do with it.

For the processor, you do not need a bleeding edge processor unless you like to frequenly recompile the Linux Kernel or other large programming projects.  For most applications, the bottlenecks are no longer CPU dependent.

For the Ram, you can get by just fine with either 256mb or 512mb unless you do one of the following:

1)  Heavy PC gaming
2)  Heavy Graphics work (Photoshop or 3dsMax type of stuff)
3)  Mass Data Manipulation (work with Databases and such)

Your choice of videocard should be governed by items 1 or 2 on the criteria for getting alot of RAM.  Get at least a GeForce2 card.  That will allow you to at least attempt to play most of the currently available games.

For the Hard Drive, get at LEAST 40 megs.  If you tend to collect alot of mp3's, and movie clips, get alot more, especially if you do alot of peer to peer file sharing (like to use applications like KaZaa or Gnutella)

If you intend to watch dvd drives on your PC, then get a player.  If you like to burn cd's, get a burner.  If you like to burn profane amounts of cd's and often have your burner wear out, get an EXTERNAL cd burner.  Its easier to replace external peripherials then it is to replace internal ones.  As a bonus, you can bring the burner over to a friends house if the need arises.

For sound cards, I cannot really offer much advice.  Getting the latest / newest thing from Creative Labs is always a safe bet.

As for a pre-packaged computer (Dell, Gateway) vs a custom job assembed by your self, there is only really one word of advice.  Unless you are comfortable taking your computer apart or have a friend that is, get a pre-packaged one.   If something fails on the pre-packaged one, then its probably under warranty.

One last thing.  Since you post to this board, I can assume you play D&D.  As such, you will probably be intrested in getting a printer.  If you also intend to buy a new printer with your new computer, then for the love of all that is holy, do not get a cheap Inkjet printer.  Get a laser printer if you can.  With sub $100.00 Inkjet printers, you can end up paying more for ink refills then you did for the printer.

END COMMUNICATION


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## Psionicist (Nov 4, 2002)

I myself will soon order some components for my new box:

Motherboard: MSI K7D Master-L. Why? 2cpu.com and generally everyone who have tested at least some dual athlon boards agree that this board... rules. 
CPUs: 2x Athlon XP 2100+. Why? They are almost as cheap as the 2000+, however, the 2200+ is pretty expensive. This is the sweet spot, like 14 in an ability with point buy.
RAM: 512mb Kingston DDR (Reg/Ecc). Why? Less problems with registered RAM on multiprocessor setups. I am used to 256mb so this will be enought - for now.

Then we have case and power supply (antec performance series with a nice 430W true power PSU). Sound card (hercules fortissimo III). Video card (Ti4200 is enough for my needs, I don't game that much, and when I do it's generally older or "slow" games such as NWN, BG, War3 and so on).

So, why dual athlons? I multitask - alot. That, and I want a responsive system. I don't really care if I don't get the fastest possible gaming system around (say P4 2.8Ghz with a Radeon 9700), but I want a snappy system that can handle heavy load without "lag". Try to run an antivirus scan while you play and older game. It doesn't work that good right? It will soon though. 

Also, when I sell my current computer, I will most likely buy a decent 64bit/66mhz SCSI card and a cheaper 10k disk (no, I'm not made of money).

I am one happy geek.


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## DarkJester (Nov 4, 2002)

What is defined as heavy gaming? 

I havn't had the chance to play anything cutting edge on my current pc. From playing with friends, games i want to get include: Unreal 2003, Warcraft III, NWN, Counter Strike, Hitman. I don't particularly want to have the best system for running games simlliar to those, but I don't want something giving me choppy graphics.

And I'm sure someone knows what a network card is...... 

Thanks for the help so far guys.


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## Psionicist (Nov 4, 2002)

DarkJester said:
			
		

> *What is defined as heavy gaming?
> 
> I havn't had the chance to play anything cutting edge on my current pc. From playing with friends, games i want to get include: Unreal 2003, Warcraft III, NWN, Counter Strike, Hitman. I don't particularly want to have the best system for running games simlliar to those, but I don't want something giving me choppy graphics.
> 
> ...




Heavy games are games that are technically demaning, such as Unreal 2003. I can run all of the above games on my Geforce 2 MX card (they suck) with detailed settings, except for Unreal 2003. That game, is a heavy game.

If you like details (i do), large textures and flashy effects, and want to be able to play the game at high resolution, get a powerful video card such as Geforce 3 or 4.

A networks card (also known as ethernet adapters or "NICs") are add on cards so your computer can "talk" to other computers. Today, they are often used to gain access to the internet, unless you have a slow dial up connection (like me). Without a network card, you cannot play multiplayer games with your friends, and you might have trouble getting online.

Network cards are pretty cheap (you can get a working card for $10, a good card for $40 and a kick ass one for $80)


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## CrusaderX (Nov 4, 2002)

DarkJester said:
			
		

> *
> And I'm sure someone knows what a network card is......
> 
> *




If you're going to have broadband internet access, you need a network card.


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## Heretic Apostate (Nov 4, 2002)

My to-buy list for computer games includes:

Harpoon IV
Civ 3: PTW
MOO3

Nothing technically demanding.  I figure I can eke out a few more years on this rusty bucket-o-bolts.  If I can just figure out how to make the sound card start working again.  (I don't listen to the music and sound effects on games I buy, but the DVD-ROM is my only way to play DVDs.  Gah, I hate having my computer totally crash to the point of needing to reinstall WinME....)

Anyway, I thought computer questions belonged in Meta?


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## Kibo (Nov 5, 2002)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> *If you're going to have broadband internet access, you need a network card. *




And since he's looking at higher end intel setups his motherboard will almost certainly come with a 10/100 built in.  Worth mentioning I thought.


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## DarkJester (Nov 6, 2002)

I was looking at some Alienware setups earlier and it mentioned something called a storage controller. What is that?


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## Emiricol (Nov 6, 2002)

Building your own is no longer really cost-effective unless you are getting something in the high end (and know what you are doing).  If you are focusing on the "sweet spot" of bang for the buck, or going bottom end, you can't even buy the components at fry's for what you can have a pre-tested, warrantied, pre-assembled box shipped to you for.

Case in point:  Months ago I bought an athalon XP1800 with 256 megs of pc2300 RAM, a 52x CDR, hercules prophet 4000 video card (just 32 megs), 7200 RPM hard dive with 40gigs, and a 10/100 ethernet card, with built-in 64-channel sound and 300 power supply (no monitor, no OS or software)

Now, that's not the greatest system by any stretch of the imagination, but it works for anyone but a serious gamer, really.  The cost to me, pre-assembled, tested, with full warranty, and including shipping, was $525.  You can get a system not too far beneath that, now, for $200 at friggin' Wal-Mart.  I would have built the computer like I did my other one, but at those prices, why bother?  Plus there's value in not having to make 10 trips to Fry's...


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## TheEstablishment (Nov 6, 2002)

One thing you need to realize DarkJester, is that when people here say "serious gamer" they mean REALLY serious gamer, i.e. lot's of time and money to burn.

If you don't play games 12 hours a day, or demand the absolute best quality graphics in your 3d games, a midrange computer will work fine for you.  It will take at least a year to start to show its age, and you should still be able to run new games (maybe not optimally) for a good 2 years.

In my opinion, it is far more cost effective to buy a $1.5k- 2k computer every 2 years than it is to buy a $3k computer every 2-3 years.

My recommendations:

~2ghz CPU (pref. AMD for cost)
512mb DDR - best value for money
Geforce 4 4200 - honestly, I doubt you would notice the ~$200 difference between this and a Radeon 9700
CD Burner - good for back-ups, general use
~40Gig HD - This will likely hold you over for a while
Optical Mouse - no ball, more accurate

Another thing, unless there is something you don't like about your current monitor, keep it and save some money.

Also, in response to the not saving money building your own, there are some excellent websites that have the best prices around (I don't bother buying any computer parts at retail stores anymore).  I have been building my own for ~6yrs, and the best part is that I have a constantly evolving system, and I build more computers out of my spare parts.


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