# Avatar: Shoot Me Now



## Olgar Shiverstone (Dec 17, 2009)

When the first trailers for Avatar were released, I thought: _This looks pretty cool.  I might have to catch this one in the theater._  However ...


The marketing blitz has now reached such a fever pitch it has killed any interest I had in seeing the movie.  You can't turn around without running into some sort of marketing tie in, promotion, or vaguely-linked reference as the Hollywood marketing machine tries to shove this movie down my throat.

Blech.


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## fba827 (Dec 17, 2009)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> When the first trailers for Avatar were released, I thought: _This looks pretty cool.  I might have to catch this one in the theater._  However ...
> 
> 
> The marketing blitz has now reached such a fever pitch it has killed any interest I had in seeing the movie.  You can't turn around without running into some sort of marketing tie in, promotion, or vaguely-linked reference as the Hollywood marketing machine tries to shove this movie down my throat.
> ...




i feel the EXACT same way.


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## Krug (Dec 17, 2009)

Well the reviews have been good. Will wait for the crowds to subside and watch it next week.

For 3-D, try to find a seat at the back and in the middle for the best effect.


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## Crothian (Dec 17, 2009)

I try to never let the ads and marketing effect my thoughts on a movie either positively or negatively.  I'm still looking forward to this.


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## RangerWickett (Dec 17, 2009)

Crothian said:


> I try to never let the ads and marketing effect my thoughts on a movie either positively or negatively.  I'm still looking forward to this.




I always assume movies will be crap because I expect premium quality on anything that costs millions of dollars.


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## Mark (Dec 17, 2009)

Gotta IMAX this one, myself.


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 17, 2009)

I pretty much ignore all marketing about films, and I don't think it has ever negatively affected my decision to see a film. Won't affect the decision this time either.


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## Hand of Evil (Dec 17, 2009)

while I agree the marketing is getting old, my faith in this movie is all based on one thing: James Cameron as director and writer.  He has never disappointed me, not even Piranha 2: The Spawning!  

Director Credits:
4/11/03 Ghosts of the Abyss 
12/19/97 Titanic 
7/15/94 True Lies 
7/3/91 Terminator 2: Judgment Day 
8/11/89 The Abyss  
7/18/86 Aliens  
10/26/84 The Terminator  
11/5/82 Piranha 2: The Spawning 

Writer Credits:
12/19/97 Titanic 
10/6/95 Strange Days  
7/15/94 True Lies  
7/3/91 Terminator 2: Judgment Day 
8/11/89 The Abyss  
7/18/86 Aliens  
5/22/85 Rambo: First Blood Part II 
10/26/84 The Terminator


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## Deset Gled (Dec 17, 2009)

I love a lot of the stuff James Cameron has done, but he does occasionally overdo things.  Look at how many follow up projects he did for Titanic, for examples.

Still, it could be worse.  Imagine if a similar marketing campaign was run for Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeequel.  Or if George Lucas was involved.


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## Mallus (Dec 17, 2009)

I couldn't care one whit about marketing campaigns... however, I'm a sucker for very large FX budgets in the hands of talented filmmakers. I just bought tickets for an IMAX showing on Saturday.


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## coyote6 (Dec 17, 2009)

I've been avoiding commercials & trailers as much as possible (i.e., not much  ); but I do that for most movies. A movie like Avatar, I'm going to be interested in seeing; all the ads can do is spoil things. But the movie cost some ginormous sum, and the studio wants to make a profit -- ergo, the omnipresent marketing. 

BTW, I read a review this morning in the local alt weekly; this particular reviewer never seems to like action or SF or fantasy or big CGI movies, but she liked Avatar. And raved about the special effects.


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## Mark (Dec 17, 2009)

Deset Gled said:


> I love a lot of the stuff James Cameron has done, but he does occasionally overdo things.  Look at how many follow up projects he did for Titanic, for examples.





It was my understanding that the projects were as much about creating a revenue stream to help fund the development of the technology used in the project and to finance the adventure they embrace.  I mean, sure, he could spend millions on new submarine and camera tech and shell out for realizing his dream of uncovering the secrets of the sunken ship but why not do so in conjunction with a revenue-generating movie/documentary if it can offset the costs?  There must be billions, maybe trillions, of unrealized treasure lying at the floor of the world's collective oceans and seas that will likely be discovered and recovered over the next decades, in part, because of some of the developments Cameron/s efforts has spurred.  Count me among those who are going to enjoy the real life footage all of that brings to us moreso than the dramatic/fictional movies he sometimes makes, as good as they all have been.


He's like the antithesis of Uwe Boll who cheaply approaches each project, trying to get licensing for anything on which he can base a movie-knockoff of some other fantasy classic, then cut-rating all of the talent and shooting them as quickly and inexpensively as possible with a minimum of slightly-dated tech, then rushes the marketing and final film to the public, time and again.  And you watch as the Avatar tech winds up being instrumental in creating virtual gaming worlds for us to someday explore.  Good stuff.


Just saying that it could be worse.


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## Crothian (Dec 18, 2009)

So far I've heard from one person who saw uit and he thought it was the best film of that type since LotR.


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## Thanee (Dec 18, 2009)

The movie is... in one word...

*Awesome!*

Go, see it! 


The story is simplistic and predictable, but it still has quite a few turns, and there are a lot of small things. There is no boredom coming up throughout the whole 160 minutes of this movie. The visuals are simply stunning. A piece of art.

Bye
Thanee - who just came back from 160 minutes without a break


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## Mark (Dec 19, 2009)

Saw it.  See it.  Stay for the full credits.  Not because there is anything extra to watch but just because they are the most impressive credits I have ever seen.  Good movie, too.


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## Man in the Funny Hat (Dec 19, 2009)

Yes the story is unfortunately on the predictable side (and if you've seen the trailers you need even less prognostication ability) but technically the movie is just jaw-dropping spectactular and gorgeous visuals.  Will it "change _everything_" as I've seen some overblown headlines proclaim?  Probably not, but it's another giant stride in a certain direction.  Time will tell if we need to reset the compass.


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## Thanee (Dec 19, 2009)

Mark said:


> Stay for the full credits.  Not because there is anything extra to watch but just because they are the most impressive credits I have ever seen.




Yep, it's almost ridiculous what kind of quality names is packed in there... 

Bye
Thanee


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## Zaukrie (Dec 19, 2009)

So, the reviews are mostly good. It is a movie that looks interesting to you. And, you aren't going to go because of the marketing? That makes no sense to me.


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## Mark (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanee said:


> Yep, it's almost ridiculous what kind of quality names is packed in there...
> 
> Bye
> Thanee





When the credits stopped rolling and they turned on the lights for the cleaning crew between shows, it wasn't as bright in the theater as when the credits were still rolling.  That's how packed the screen was for something like twelve minutes with white text on a black background.  There was more text than background.  If they had scrolled them individually, it would have taken longer than the movie.  It was insane.


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## Jubilee (Dec 20, 2009)

Stop watching TV and I guarentee you will not be barraged by unnecessary add campaigns.. 

I saw Avatar today in 3D.  It was absolutely amazing and stunning.  I didn't care that the story was a bit of old hat - the characters were well developed and fully realized as individuals.  It was a beautiful film.

Seeing it again on Tuesday.


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## Fast Learner (Dec 20, 2009)

I saw it tonight in 3D and it was truly amazing. Certainly the most amazing computer animation ever, and the best use of 3D I've ever seen. I was prepared to be a bit disappointed due to all the hype, but other than the aforementioned cliched story, it was utterly delightful and the trailers don't even TOUCH how good it is.


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## Thanee (Dec 20, 2009)

Jubilee said:


> Stop watching TV.




Very good advice there!

More time and less stupidity (<- the TV program) in one's life cannot hurt. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 20, 2009)

Thoroughly enjoyed the movie. Great Visuals. Compared to Star Wars Episode I-III or even Lord of the Rings a remarkable step up to what we've seen before.

Seeing it in 3D certainly didn't hurt. 

Only drawback - the Cinemaxx felt it necessary to put a break in the middle. Meh.


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## Thanee (Dec 20, 2009)

Heh. I was actually quite surprised, that we didn't have a break. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Hand of Evil (Dec 21, 2009)

Yes, the plot is old but done well, it is the shear detail of the enviroment created in this movie that was amazing, will be seeing it again this week...

It is a must see, beautiful!


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 21, 2009)

This movie is visually amazing. As others have mentioned the story isn't going to win points for originality, but it was decent enough to not be distracting from the strengths of the movie (like in Transformers 2).

I highly recommend it.


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2009)

I watched a behind the scenes of it and they continual commented on how original and thought provoking the story and plot were.  I guess that was full of crap.


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## S'mon (Dec 21, 2009)

Today's my birthday and we talked about seeing a movie, normally this would be a draw but but we won't be paying to watch it as we don't care for its political messages.  So there, Cameron!


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## Gog (Dec 21, 2009)

Fast Learner said:


> I saw it tonight in 3D and it was truly amazing. Certainly the most amazing computer animation ever, and the best use of 3D I've ever seen. I was prepared to be a bit disappointed due to all the hype, but other than the aforementioned cliched story, it was utterly delightful and the trailers don't even TOUCH how good it is.




Yeah a really good movie but no surprises, though I don't think the trailers had anything to do with that. The evil modern person saved by the nobel savages and then saves the nobel savages story line is pretty much the same every time.


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## Gog (Dec 21, 2009)

S'mon said:


> Today's my birthday and we talked about seeing a movie, normally this would be a draw but but we won't be paying to watch it as we don't care for its political messages.  So there, Cameron!




It's a pretty standard plot line that's been seen in a few dozen movies. It's more about the evils of modern man that and political statement.


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## Mark (Dec 21, 2009)

Spoiler



It's a pretty standard David and Goliath tale with a pro-environmental stance against corporate greed.  It's morally and ethically argued in some portions of the movie but never really gets politicized as there is no political arena represented.  It takes place in 2154 (according to the daily log screen read out) and there are places where they mention that the humans come from a dying planet but the humans are not there to colonize, they are after a metal ore.  So, apparently they are not after the land of the indigenous people except as a means of collecting the ore in as swiftly and cheaply a manner as possible.

So, too, do they have scientists who can put effort into biological and genetics research and development that allows them to create hybrid human-alien bodies into which they can temporarily implant their non-physical selves over great distances.  If the human species were in danger of dying out, it is unlikely resources would have been put toward such an effort (and it must be a huge expenditure since the biotech is developed very quickly, considering how early in the process the mining operation seems to be).  The other implication is that there might be human clone-avatars walking around with the non-physical portion of the person from whom they were cloned.  Maybe that will be some portion of a sequel.

Of course, I won't discuss real world politics on these boards due to board policy restrictions.


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## Fast Learner (Dec 21, 2009)

Hadn't thought of that implication, Mark, very cool point. 



Spoiler



Get clones of yourself shipped all over the galaxy and you could instantly visit any of those places,


 lickety-split. Very cool (if the tech transfers that far, but even if not, at least at some distance).


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## TanisFrey (Dec 22, 2009)

But the corporation is stupid enough to over look the Supercomputer the natives have.  The corporation just thinks it the biosphere.  

The head scientist only tells them point blank about it.  The blood thirsty Colonel had too much input to the corporate goonie.  

The real world weeds out the most of blood thirsty officers from high command potions in the US military.  They want officers whom will not wast the troops needlessly.  When I say blood thirsty I means the ones whom just want to fight for no good reason.  They make great leaders but are poor at following the commands of the Civilian leaders.


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## Pbartender (Dec 22, 2009)

Fast Learner said:


> Hadn't thought of that implication, Mark, very cool point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Read _Altered Carbon_, by Richard K. Morgan.


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## Mark (Dec 22, 2009)

Did anyone spot The Wilhelm Scream?


I saw it Friday at Muvico (Rosemont) but felt compelled to see it the IMAX (Regal Lincolnshire) way, tonight.


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## Fast Learner (Dec 22, 2009)

I didn't spot it, but you can almost guarantee it's there. Did you, now that you've seen it twice?


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## Fast Learner (Dec 22, 2009)

Pbartender said:


> Read _Altered Carbon_, by Richard K. Morgan.




Thanks for the recommendation!


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## Pbartender (Dec 22, 2009)

Fast Learner said:


> Thanks for the recommendation!




He's got several books in that series, and they're based off of a very similar notion to what you suggest.

I've haven't seen the movie yet, and so I'm not certain of the implied limitations of the process.  The way Mr. Morgan handles it in the his books, it means: 



Spoiler



A) As you suggest, interstellar travel is achieved by building a physical body on another planet, then transmitting your personality there and downloading it into the clone.

B) You can "upgrade" your body, if you can afford to purchase a better one.  

C) Practical immortality, as you can transfer your personality to a new body once your old one dies.

D) Backup personalities can be stored in data banks in case the non-physical portion of yourself is destroyed.

E) Multiple (and highly illegal) copies of yourself can be made by duplicating your personality data and downloading it into additional bodies.


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## Mark (Dec 22, 2009)

Fast Learner said:


> I didn't spot it, but you can almost guarantee it's there. Did you, now that you've seen it twice?





I believe that I did spot it with the help of my buddy David when 



Spoiler



the pallets of explosives roll back into the shuttle as it veers off course a guy is crushed between two of them and lets loose with the infamous scream


.


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## Sparta2388 (Dec 23, 2009)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> When the first trailers for Avatar were released, I thought: _This looks pretty cool.  I might have to catch this one in the theater._  However ...
> 
> 
> The marketing blitz has now reached such a fever pitch it has killed any interest I had in seeing the movie.  You can't turn around without running into some sort of marketing tie in, promotion, or vaguely-linked reference as the Hollywood marketing machine tries to shove this movie down my throat.
> ...




I guess I just don't take notice to things like this.  I saw the trailer for it months ago, and didn't really care about it until it came out.  Went and saw it, and it was amazing.  Put aside the grudge and see it, you'll probably enjoy yourself.


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Dec 23, 2009)

Gog said:


> It's a pretty standard plot line that's been seen in a few dozen movies.



Yah, TV Tropes call it Mighty Whitey, aka "What these people need is a honky". It is surprising how many points of the trope Cameron hit. The TV Trope page has already been updated putting Avatar in its list.


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## Fast Learner (Dec 23, 2009)

Mark said:


> I believe that I did spot it with the help of my buddy David when
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Holy cow, I think you're right! I read the first few words of your spoiled area and could instantly hear it there! Good catch, I'll check for it when I go again.


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## Thanee (Dec 23, 2009)

S'mon said:


> Today's my birthday and we talked about seeing a movie, normally this would be a draw but but we won't be paying to watch it as we don't care for its political messages.  So there, Cameron!




C'mon, you know you want to see it! Three-meter, blueskinned, elvish catfolk shooting ballista bolts from their bows! Spirit trees! Mentally bonded animals! Flying rocks! Dragons (well, close enough)! Attack aircraft with warpaint! Mecha! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Dec 23, 2009)

So ... _Dances with Blue Aliens_, then?

(Still wondering what it has to do with "AVTR" on all the Coke cans ...)


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 23, 2009)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> So ... _Dances with Blue Aliens_, then?



"Dances with Smurfs" is, I believe, the correct saying.



> (Still wondering what it has to do with "AVTR" on all the Coke cans ...)



Some US marketing thingy, probably.


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 23, 2009)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> (Still wondering what it has to do with "AVTR" on all the Coke cans ...)




Augmented reality

Coke Zero Immerses Itself in 'Avatar'



> By holding a promotional pack of Avatar-branded Coke Zero cans before a Webcam, visiting AVTR.com or taking a picture of the activating AVTR mark or Coke Zero logo with certain camera phones, consumers will be able to access the technology, which will allow them to use a computer keyboard to trigger actions such as shooting missiles or flying helicopters and firing their guns. AVTR.com will direct visitors to activate one of the above-mentioned symbols with their Webcams to start the experience.


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 23, 2009)

S'mon said:


> Today's my birthday and we talked about seeing a movie, normally this would be a draw but but we won't be paying to watch it as we don't care for its political messages.  So there, Cameron!




Yes, the bit where they take cheap shots at Conservative and Labour policies was really weak < / joke >

Seems to me it was more a classic story than a political message, to be honest.


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## MarkB (Dec 23, 2009)

Pbartender said:


> He's got several books in that series, and they're based off of a very similar notion to what you suggest.
> 
> I've haven't seen the movie yet, and so I'm not certain of the implied limitations of the process.  The way Mr. Morgan handles it in the his books, it means:
> 
> ...




Incidentally, a lot of this shows up in the MMO game EVE Online. 



Spoiler



Players take the part of "Capsuleers", people who spend most of their time hooked into a high-tech space capsule. They start out with a clone body at a friendly facility, into which their personality is automatically downloaded if their pod is ever destroyed.

As you progress through the game you accumulate skills, and will have to regularly update your backup clone to one with the download capacity to handle your current skillset, or else you'll lose skills if you die.

Later, once you're established with one or more factions, you can purchase Jump Clones. Unlike normal clones, you can transfer your mind to one of these without killing your current body, so long as you're docked at a station. Jump Clones serve as a means of instant travel between distant star systems.


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 23, 2009)

TanisFrey said:


> But the corporation is stupid enough to over look the Supercomputer the natives have.  The corporation just thinks it the biosphere.
> 
> The head scientist only tells them point blank about it.  The blood thirsty Colonel had too much input to the corporate goonie.
> 
> The real world weeds out the most of blood thirsty officers from high command potions in the US military.  They want officers whom will not wast the troops needlessly.  When I say blood thirsty I means the ones whom just want to fight for no good reason.  They make great leaders but are poor at following the commands of the Civilian leaders.




I got the impression that this was a private para-military force (like Blackwater) rather than the military of any particular government.


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## MarkB (Dec 24, 2009)

Darth Shoju said:


> I got the impression that this was a private para-military force (like Blackwater) rather than the military of any particular government.




The impression I got was that they were government military, but that the company in question was sufficiently powerful and/or connected that it could effectively subcontract Government troops as its front-line defence force on alien planets - and that such an assignment was considered something of a demerit or dead-end for the troopers in question.


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 24, 2009)

MarkB said:


> The impression I got was that they were government military, but that the company in question was sufficiently powerful and/or connected that it could effectively subcontract Government troops as its front-line defence force on alien planets - and that such an assignment was considered something of a demerit or dead-end for the troopers in question.




No, they say it quite expressely. These guys are mercenaries working for the company. It is part of the opening narration Jake gives as he leaves the shuttle.


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## Jack7 (Dec 24, 2009)

> _"What these people need is a honky"_




That's what my wife said about her people when she married me.
I wonder how that worked out for em?

Anywho, my kids saw it and they said it was, _"Awesomesauce Daddy, you've just gotta see it!"_

I think that's kid talk for, "We really liked it and I'm glad grandpa took us."

No seriously, they talk like that.


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## Dire Bare (Dec 24, 2009)

*Political Message?*

Just saw the movie and loved it.  Will see it again on the big screen.  Didn't do the 3D version, but might the second time around.

Political message?  Suuuure . . .

The "message" is as complex as "tribal hunter-gathers" are good and noble, "corporations" are bad.  That's about as "political" as the film gets.  In the future mankind has environmentally destroyed its own planet, and now is ready to move onto the next one to despoil . . . . ever seen that before?

I know that some parts of the media are trying to sell more papers (or get more eyeballs on the screen) by making a big deal about the "politics" and "philosophy" in the movie . . . . but it's a weak, barely there element.

It's an action movie.  A well-done action movie with amazing effects, but still just an action movie.


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## Thanee (Dec 24, 2009)

MarkB said:


> The impression I got was that they were government military, ...




Two words... Ex-Marine.

Bye
Thanee


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## TanisFrey (Dec 24, 2009)

Plane Sailing said:


> No, they say it quite expressely. These guys are mercenaries working for the company. It is part of the opening narration Jake gives as he leaves the shuttle.



Which is why there is a blood thirsty commander.


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## Cassander (Dec 24, 2009)

I haven't watched any TV since the World Series, so I haven't seen too much marketing. I did watch a trailer online, and from that I had very low expectations for the story but very high expectations for the visuals. The movie beat both pretty soundly. The story was decent and the visuals were far and away the best I've ever seen. It was like travelling to the future to see what movies will look like years from now. This movie must be seen in 3D. Simply amazing.

I do think the story could have been improved with editing however:



Spoiler



I would have cut the movie into two parts, with the first movie ending at the fall of the great tree. That'd give a bit more time in the first half for exploring the world of Pandora and the culture of the Na'vi, which for me was the best part of the movie. Truly amazing. The movie really made you understand Jake's reaction to the offer of getting his legs back that night. He was thinking "Legs? Legs? That's supposed to entice me? Out there, I have flown.". The movie worked because you could truly feel the world and it was beyond magical. The most amazing fantasy world ever portrayed on screen, by far.

But the second half the movie had issues, I think, and was a little too skimmed over and shoot-an-up. I'd redo the second half as a whole new movie and hope that fixes things. Certainly, if redone this way, it would have destroyed the whole "formulaic" argument... ending on the fall of the tree would have been ballsy and devastating. Instead of ending on nature rising up to fight back, it'd be about man's unending and unstoppable destruction of nature. 

Anyway, I did quite like Jake's story, going from wheelchair bound to exploring Pandora. The visual storytelling on that was really top-notch. Seeing him come back to the real world was painful in a good way. Very sad to see him go back to his real body after what he had tasted. I also liked that they explored the drawbacks of the avatar system, being turned off and what not. I did like the scene where Neytiri meets Jake's real form very good. I just wish they didn't have the "let them have cake" ending of just letting Jake move into the Avatar body permanently. I think a relationship of Jake and Neytiri ongoing with the restrictions of the Avatar ending would have been more interesting. 

So overall, I'd say it had the seeds of a truly great movie but was brought down by a few flaws, but still held up by incredible visuals. I'm gonna have to find an IMAX theater to see this again. DVD will not do.


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## Gog (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanee said:


> Two words... Ex-Marine.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee





Not to nit pick but there is no such thing, Jake even says that. It would be former marine.


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