# Food/Water needs for Large creatures/characters and mounts



## Amazing Mumford (Oct 7, 2009)

Quick question-- I don't remember exactly where the rules are for large sized creatures and characters, what are their food/water requirements?  I know for medium-sized characters it's 1 gallon of fluids and 1 lb. of food in normal environments, and for small characters it's half as much-- is the multiplier for large sized x2 or x4?  Also, the weight for a regular waterskin is listed as 4 lbs- is that empty or full?  If that's empty weight, what exactly is the carrying capacity of a waterskin?  Or a regular belt pouch, for that matter?

Also, question for mounts (specifically horses)- they require feed, 10 lbs/day.  The weight of a normal saddlebag is listed as 8 lbs- once again, is that empty or full?  I assume empty... if this is the case, what exactly is the carrying capacity of a saddlebag?  How many days worth of feed can one hold??

Thanks for the help!!  I can't seem to find these little rules...


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## Arkhandus (Oct 7, 2009)

None of this is really exactly answered in the rules, at least not that I'm aware of.

Medium humanoids require a gallon of water per day to avoid dehydration, and a pound of food to avoid starvation, as noted in the DMG and SRD.  A waterskin holds 1/2 gallon, as it weighs 4 pounds when full (it's also what the 3.0 PHB lists as its capacity).  So 2 waterskins will contain enough water for 1 day for a humanoid of the appropriate size category.

Saddlebags weigh 8 pounds, empty.  A pack saddle weighs 15 and holds as much as the animal can normally carry (it's heavy load capacity), so it can be assumed that saddlebags will hold about half that much.  Saddlebags can hold up to 5 cubic feet in volume (according to the 3.0 PHB; not sure if this is in the 3.5 PHB, but it's not in the 3.5 SRD).

From the Create Water spell: "Note: Conjuration spells can’t create substances or objects within a creature. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon. One cubic foot of water contains roughly 8 gallons and weighs about 60 pounds."

The Create Food & Water spell can sustain one horse for every three humans it could otherwise sustain, so it can probably be assumed that a Large creature requires three times as much food and water as a Medium creature.

Large creatures have twice the carrying capacities of Medium creatures, though, so they might just need twice as much food and drink as Medium creatures.  It's not clear.  I'm still not sure why the heck 1 day's worth of horse feed is 10 pounds, though.  Do horses really need to eat 10 pounds of oats per day?  Seriously?  From the description, I'm guessing it's meant to represent enough feed to nourish and energize them for a day of hard riding, not light activity.


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## Amazing Mumford (Oct 7, 2009)

Arkhandus-- thanks, I appreciate the help!  I no longer have a 3.0 PHB, I didn't know that the saddlebag volume was actually listed in there.

Any engineers/mathmaticians/equestrians out there know how many days of feed can fit in 5 cubic feet of volume??

Hmmm, there does seem to be a little discrepancy as far as the food goes... to me, it would definitely make sense that since small creatures require half as much, large creatures would require twice as much.  The x3 multiplier noted in the Create Food and Water spell kinda contradicts this though...  Does anyone have any clarification on this?


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## frankthedm (Oct 7, 2009)

Amazing Mumford said:


> Hmmm, there does seem to be a little discrepancy as far as the food goes... to me, it would definitely make sense that since small creatures require half as much, large creatures would require twice as much.  The x3 multiplier noted in the Create Food and Water spell kinda contradicts this though...  Does anyone have any clarification on this?



 I eat about twice as much food as a normal person and I don't weigh as much as a large creature. Yet 

Huge factors are involved for how much food something needs to survive, triple food for a large critter sounds quite kind, especially for active critters.

And don't forget, most things you fight are made of meat.


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## Vegepygmy (Oct 8, 2009)

Amazing Mumford said:


> Also, question for mounts (specifically horses)- they require feed, 10 lbs/day.



Well, they don't _require_ it.  "Horses, donkeys, mules, and ponies can graze to sustain themselves, but providing feed for them (such as oats) is much better because..." (PHB, page 131)


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## Jhaelen (Oct 8, 2009)

Actually, I would have guessed you'd have to quadruple food/water for each size increase. Doubling seems too kind to me, considering the body mass increases by a factor of 8 (double size = 2x2x2).


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## Amazing Mumford (Oct 8, 2009)

Jhaelen-- But when you're increasing from a size small to a size medium, there is specifically only a x2 difference in need for food/water.  Wouldn't the same factor correlate to a size change from medium to large?  The same "body mass" increase would apply, whether you're going from small to medium or medium to large...  unless I'm missing something...

And Vegepygmy, my fault, I should have given a better background for the question.  The terrain that the party currently is in does not supply natural grazing opportunities.

And Frank, horses don't eat meat.  And though some things a party can fight could be considered edible, depending on food requirements for the character/mount in question, I would argue that most things aren't.  How often do regular PC's and mounts cook and eat drow or orcs, for example??  I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that it usually isn't.  A dire boar, on the other hand, is a different story-- unless you get back to the point that horses don't eat meat; which means you still have to feed them.


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## Jhaelen (Oct 9, 2009)

Amazing Mumford said:


> Jhaelen-- But when you're increasing from a size small to a size medium, there is specifically only a x2 difference in need for food/water.  Wouldn't the same factor correlate to a size change from medium to large?  The same "body mass" increase would apply, whether you're going from small to medium or medium to large...  unless I'm missing something...



Well, I didn't want to give the impression that this was, what the rules said. I was basically just thinking aloud 

I'm also thinking that the encumbrance rules are too kind: Weight of armor and weapons also double when you increase them one size category. I have no idea if the rule is there because it's 'easier' from a gameplay view, because the game developer didn't think it through or because it's actually more realistic.

This is one of those issues where I probably should just follow my own advice and stop thinking too hard about it


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## 19will97 (Dec 20, 2018)

3.5 Rules Compendium says 8x per size category above medium which is a bit ridiculous on carry weight restrictions. You can find it under Starvation and thirst.


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