# Tempest Fighter Build (lvl2)



## Angellis_ater (Jan 11, 2009)

Ok, so one of my players died and want a new character and we agreed to let him test a Tempest Technique Fighter. Do people have suggestions on what to use (We have access to Martial Power, PHB, DMG, MM and AV) to make this character effective?

I'm tempted to suggest he go with 2x Short Swords (+3 proficiency to make up for lost Weapon Talent, off-hand for getting best bonuses to damage from Tempest Technique). Unfortunately, this keeps his "weapon die" low, so what other suggestions do peole have?

I was thinking that I might suggest he take Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword to get a good, one-handed main weapon and use a Parrying Dagger as his off-hand weapon. That way he gets +2 to AC and +1 to Reflex, while still being able to provide a good offensive.


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## chitzk0i (Jan 11, 2009)

First, Tempest technique gives you +1 to attack rolls with off-hand weapons.   Second, do you have the Adventurer's Vault?  Double weapons count as off-hand and defensive along with a good-sized weapon die, so they are pretty much the best option.  Otherwise, just go with short swords or katars.  You'll get the +1 to attack and +2 to damage on both weapons.


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## abyssaldeath (Jan 11, 2009)

Angellis_ater said:


> Ok, so one of my players died and want a new character and we agreed to let him test a Tempest Technique Fighter. Do people have suggestions on what to use (We have access to Martial Power, PHB, DMG, MM and AV) to make this character effective?
> 
> I'm tempted to suggest he go with 2x Short Swords (+3 proficiency to make up for lost Weapon Talent, off-hand for getting best bonuses to damage from Tempest Technique). Unfortunately, this keeps his "weapon die" low, so what other suggestions do peole have?
> 
> I was thinking that I might suggest he take Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword to get a good, one-handed main weapon and use a Parrying Dagger as his off-hand weapon. That way he gets +2 to AC and +1 to Reflex, while still being able to provide a good offensive.




Double sword is your best weapon for a Tempest Fighter. +3 prof. 1d8 damage on both ends, light and heavy blade and both the off-hand and defensive property.

Because Tempest Fighters get a +1 to hit with off-hand weapons he will have a total of +4 to hit before any ability or enhancement modifiers. +1 for off-hand and +3 for proficiency.

If it wasn't for Double weapons I personally would use either Kukri's or Scourges.


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## Angellis_ater (Jan 12, 2009)

So you both feel that it is worth a feat for Weapon Proficiency: Double Weapon? I'll make sure to pass that along to my player and see what he says. Thankyou for the suggestions!


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## Phoenix8008 (Jan 12, 2009)

I concur with them as well. I was just looking through this last night in building a replacement 1st level character for one of my campaigns. Double weapon is the way to go. I'm actually making him a human just to get the bonus feat so I can have Weapon Proficiency and Two Weapon Fighting at 1st level. Looking at taking Kensai for his Paragon Path eventually.


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## sammy (Jan 12, 2009)

I have done a tempest fighter as you  initially thought of, 2 short swords.  I also had wpn focus light blades.  Now you can "Dual Strike" for 1d6 +3 per attack ( 1 for the focus, 2 for the class ability for extra damage).  I was quite happy with that.  Unfortunately, it was a quick campaign.  I actually liked the character as it was.  If I continued, I was thinking of multi-classing with ranger, and burning some feats for Ranger powers.

I also thought that if I was human ( I was 1/2 elf), that I would use a feat to pick up "Weapon Pro-Katar".  Same damage, same proficiency bonus, but also high crit.  Not a huge difference, but a nice addition.

Good luck no matter how you go.

Sammy


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## chitzk0i (Jan 12, 2009)

A fun one is a Dwarf with Tempest Technique.  Dwarven Weapon Training will give you proficiency with the double axe and you'll be Dual Striking for 1d10+4.  A successful hit with Villain's Menace will mean you're doing 1d10+8 with Dual strike!


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## legiondevil (Jan 15, 2009)

The idea I had for my Tempest Fighter was a short sword and a spiked shield.  Yes, you lose the +1 shield bonus because Tempest Fighter gives you Two Weapon Defense as a bonus feat, but you also now have the ability to take all of the "Shield Required" powers that let you seriously control your small area of the battlefield.

Dual Strike, Shield Push, and Footwork Lure let you move enemies around to better provide cover for your allies, and you still deal decent damage since you can focus solely on Strength (with Dexterity and Wisdom as backups).


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## simen (May 13, 2009)

Have you seen a thorough tempest build? Tried to search for it online. There should be a portal or something where people could send in their builds and other people could rate it... Like after how "good" it is, fun, clever, strange, etc.


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## Tarrl (May 14, 2009)

What did you find out about your build???


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## Elric (May 14, 2009)

I made a Dwarf Tempest Fighter 2 who uses an Urgosh (AV) recently.  I haven't had a chance to play him yet, but he looks like a lot of fun.  

Thorgrim Axeforger
Dwarf Fighter 2 (Tempest Technique)
Str: 16
Con: 15
Dex: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 8

Feats: Two Weapon Defense (bonus), Dwarven Weapon Training, Warrior of the Wild (Perception)

At-Wills: Dual Strike, Footwork Lure
Encounter: Funneling Fury
Utility: Pass Forward
Daily:	Villain’s Menace

Trained Skills: Athletics, Dungeoneering (see background), Endurance, Perception

Equipment:	+1 Urgosh, +1 Dwarven Chain Mail, Standard Adventurer’s Kit, 3 Handaxes

Background (PH II): Geography—Mountains (Benefit: add Dungeoneering to class skills), Occupation—Artisan (Blacksmith)

Thorgrim Axeforger was born to a long line of blacksmiths in the mountain city of Calzak.  As tradition dictated, he followed in the footsteps of his father and his father’s fathers before him by becoming a smith in the family business.

Thorgrim was also interested in using the fruits of his labor, swinging axes as well as creating them.  This distressed his father, who considered basic knowledge of axeplay useful to the business of constructing proper axes, but viewed extensive training in the axe for a young dwarf as a waste of valuable hours that could be spent mastering the forge.  “A forger good at axeplay is a great forger wasted” went the saying, which sounds better in the original Dwarven.

Nevertheless, Thorgrim became a volunteer orc-fighter, joining a group of professionals that patrolled the city borders for orcs encroaching on dwarven lands.  As Calzak was in a well-defended area, there was little danger of an orc-invasion, but small groups of orcs would occasionally infiltrate and try to rob merchant caravans.  Truth be told, at first his orc-fighter unit mainly valued him for the discounts he got them at the smithy, but he was a quick study in both axe-fighting and learning the ways of the underground terrain, and soon he could contribute on his own.  

Then disaster struck.  One night, after entirely too much ale, a newly overconfident Thorgrim challenged Darrak Stonebeard, a haughty dwarf of noble upbringing, to a game of “axes”, much like the human game “darts.”  The stakes started low but after losing the first game Thorgrim called for double or nothing, which Darrak accepted.  Then after losing another game he did it again...  Pretty soon, Thorgrim was nearly broke.  “By Moradin’s hammer!” he swore. “One more game, and if I lose it, I will go into a year of exile in shame!”  The next day, Thorgrim did exactly that.  

Thorgrim is solid even by dwarf standards, standing at 4’8” and weighing 200 lbs.  He is reluctant to discuss the circumstances that led him to the human lands, though if asked he will shake his head and reminisce about “the evils of drink.”  He treasures his urgosh and chainmail armor, family heirlooms crafted by his grandfather and blessed by priests of Moradin, and given to him by his father upon his departure.  Only 10 ½ months to go…


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## Pickles JG (May 14, 2009)

Elric said:


> I made a Dwarf Tempest Fighter 2 who uses an Urgosh (AV) recently. I haven't had a chance to play him yet, but he looks like a lot of fun.




Remember to push your Dex by 1 to get Rain of blows, though this puts about all the things I think are a bit broken into one character. Tempest itself is on the edge - tempest technique & dual strike makes them too close to striker damage & free 2 weapon defence makes them lose very little defence, Double weapons are outside the power curve cf anyother weapons good & Tempest technique makes this more so plus Urgosh & Double sword qualify for Rain of blows. Rain of Blows itself is markedly the most damaging martial power up to about level 23.

Still the other powers do less damage than a Ranger


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## Elric (May 14, 2009)

Pickles JG said:


> Remember to push your Dex by 1 to get Rain of blows, though this puts about all the things I think are a bit broken into one character. Tempest itself is on the edge - tempest technique & dual strike makes them too close to striker damage & free 2 weapon defence makes them lose very little defence, Double weapons are outside the power curve cf anyother weapons good & Tempest technique makes this more so plus Urgosh & Double sword qualify for Rain of blows. Rain of Blows itself is markedly the most damaging martial power up to about level 23.
> 
> Still the other powers do less damage than a Ranger




The DM essentially ruled double weapons down a damage dice for my purposes (d10/d6 for Urgosh), which keeps them more in line with other weapons.  I wouldn't try to take Rain of Blows in its present form; it's far too powerful for a level 3 encounter power (it should be more like a level *23* encounter power, as you mention).


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## Starfox (May 16, 2009)

My personal opinion ios that double weapons are broken. I do not allow them IMC.


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## invokethehojo (May 17, 2009)

I just looked at rain of blows... I don't play defenders ( mostly strikers) so could someone tell me why it is broken and the equivalent of a 23rd level power?


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## Jack99 (May 17, 2009)

invokethehojo said:


> I just looked at rain of blows... I don't play defenders ( mostly strikers) so could someone tell me why it is broken and the equivalent of a 23rd level power?




4 attacks with all modifiers each time? That's broken


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## simen (May 17, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> 4 attacks with all modifiers each time? That's broken




4 attacks? Isn't it 3 attacks?

It says:

Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC

Nothing about two attacks in the second attack.


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## invokethehojo (May 17, 2009)

simen said:


> 4 attacks? Isn't it 3 attacks?
> 
> It says:
> 
> ...




Ya, so it's not that great sounding to me. Sure potentially 3 weapon damage plus modifiers x 3.... but also the chances all three attacks will hit isn't very high


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## Elric (May 18, 2009)

simen said:


> 4 attacks? Isn't it 3 attacks?
> 
> It says:
> 
> ...




Rain of Blows is 2-4 attacks.  See here, and also the "Reading a power" section of PH-II (pg 219), which makes this quite clear.  

It's much too good at single target damage to be a level 3 encounter power, and it's on a defender to boot.  For example, a Ranger-Stormwarden build on WotC's character optimization board takes Novice Power for it: Stormwarden - Wizards Community (though AV has exacerbated the power of multi-attack powers by adding too many static bonuses to damage).  *Edit:* I should mention that said Stormwarden build keeps Rain of Blows until level 29, and only swaps it out then for Trip-Up (MP) because of the incredible synergy with the Ranger's Follow-Up Blow.


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## Pickles JG (May 18, 2009)

invokethehojo said:


> Ya, so it's not that great sounding to me. Sure potentially 3 weapon damage plus modifiers x 3.... but also the chances all three attacks will hit isn't very high




It is after an action point with a Tactical Warlord in the field plus Warlord's Favour plus Villain's Menace. My level 3 Warlord & a level 4 Tempest did  190 damage in two actions (blowing 2 Dailies & 2 APs in the process plus RoB which did  about 2/3 of it). An honourable mention goes to the Cleric who Righteous Branded me to help set it up.


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## invokethehojo (May 18, 2009)

Pickles JG said:


> It is after an action point with a Tactical Warlord in the field plus Warlord's Favour plus Villain's Menace. My level 3 Warlord & a level 4 Tempest did  190 damage in two actions (blowing 2 Dailies & 2 APs in the process plus RoB which did  about 2/3 of it). An honourable mention goes to the Cleric who Righteous Branded me to help set it up.




Wow, that is powerful... but two characters each blew thier action points and a daily to do that.  With that many resources sunk into it it should do hella damage.

Also, just looked at the power and in order to get the secondary attacks you have to wield a light blade, spear or flail and have a dex of 15... how many characters meet those prerequisites?


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## Tuft (May 18, 2009)

Pickles JG said:


> It is after an action point with a Tactical Warlord in the field plus Warlord's Favour plus Villain's Menace. My level 3 Warlord & a level 4 Tempest did  190 damage in two actions (blowing 2 Dailies & 2 APs in the process plus RoB which did  about 2/3 of it). An honourable mention goes to the Cleric who Righteous Branded me to help set it up.




What kind of opponent needed that?


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## Jack99 (May 18, 2009)

invokethehojo said:


> Wow, that is powerful... but two characters each blew thier action points and a daily to do that.  With that many resources sunk into it it should do hella damage.
> 
> Also, just looked at the power and in order to get the secondary attacks you have to wield a light blade, spear or flail and have a dex of 15... how many characters meet those prerequisites?




Just because a power has certain restrictions does not mean it is not broken. Besides the great spear and certain other double weapons are quite decent weapons, and with rain of blows, they become overpowered. Besides, fighters, barbarians, rangers and so on can all easily get 15 dex - some from the start, but others eventually. It's not like they are likely to pick another encounter power over it.


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## Pickles JG (May 18, 2009)

Tuft said:


> What kind of opponent needed that?




Some non standard shadow thing in an LFR game. It had 300 hp - not sure if it was a solo or a higher level elite, probably the former. 

Of course this is massive overkill against a lot of things but the secondary ROB attacks can hit other targets though they will not be so well buffed.
Greatspears make this easier as they have reach.


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## invokethehojo (May 18, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Just because a power has certain restrictions does not mean it is not broken. Besides the great spear and certain other double weapons are quite decent weapons, and with rain of blows, they become overpowered. Besides, fighters, barbarians, rangers and so on can all easily get 15 dex - some from the start, but others eventually. It's not like they are likely to pick another encounter power over it.




Your right, it's not likely that they would pick another encounter power over it... because if they met all those prereqs they most likely built the character just for that power.  Your also right Fighters (and so on) can get 15 dex from the start, but hardly any of them will.  

This power isn't broken because it's designed for a select few characters that have to jump through a lot of hoops to get it.  Even multiclass characters who might meet those prereqs easily have to burn 2 feats for it.


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## Pickles JG (May 19, 2009)

invokethehojo said:


> Your right, it's not likely that they would pick another encounter power over it... because if they met all those prereqs they most likely built the character just for that power. Your also right Fighters (and so on) can get 15 dex from the start, but hardly any of them will.
> 
> This power isn't broken because it's designed for a select few characters that have to jump through a lot of hoops to get it. Even multiclass characters who might meet those prereqs easily have to burn 2 feats for it.




It _is_ broken because while it is intended to be used with "unfashionable" weapon groups & have somewhat tough prerequisites there are plenty of sound options in those weapon groups & the prerequisites are not high enough. (Well really it is just a level 17 power griefing the other level 3 ones).

This is a factor of:-
1) WOTC not quite getting the maths right with regard to multiple attack power cf powers with large number of [W]. 
2) Superior weapons pushing the envelope & the best ones being a little too good.
3) Too many stacking bonuses to damage & to hit that are alway on.

Each of these is OK on its own but the accumulated marginal benefits start to break the system.  1 & 3 are two halfs of an issue - if most damage boosts are 1/round like Hunter's Quarry then multiple & single attacks keep their relative balance. If powers & items like Iron Armbands of Power or Adaptive Stratagem boost all attacks then multiple attack powers gain. 

The superior weapons also make stuff work slicker. Rain of Blows might not be too appealing with a shortsword (though if you add 20 to each attack it may) but with an Urgosh, Greatspear or Doublesword it is. Similarly the double weapons are the worst offenders with Tempest technique & removing the downsides of the class (low AC). 

Notice that pretty much any Eladrin fighter will qualify. With poor strength maybe these are the true targets for this power, though maybe not using Urgosh). Half orc barbarians will also qualify & can make do with ROB until Storm of Blows & Hurricane of Blows take over .


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## Saeviomagy (May 20, 2009)

Rain of blows is broken no matter what weapon you use it with, because the damage primarily comes from static modifiers, not weapon dice.

It's relatively easy with the current rules to get +20 to damage, and optimization builds hit 50+. And that's applied to every attack of a multi-attack power.

Who cares if you use a dagger to deliver the attack instead of an urgrosh? You only lose 4 points of damage. The power is still doing 80-200 points of damage (plus giving lots of chances to trigger on-crit abilities).

The same thing goes for dual strike (or whatever incarnation your class has of it). It's the reason why just about every martial striker is a half-elf with versatile mastery to pick it up. The ability to swing twice is far more powerful than anything else available, no matter what weapon you're swinging.


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