# Eberron:  Lord of Blades not that tough?



## Emirikol (Dec 2, 2004)

I was just checking out the stats for the Lord of Blades.

Ftr2/Artificer5/Warforged Juggernaut5: CR12; ph 121; AC24; Atk +12 melee (1d4+4 slam) or +13 melee (1d8+5/17-20, +1 keen adamantine two-bladed sword).  AL:  LE!
Stats:  str 18; dex 15; con 16; int 14; wis 11; cha16

Pretty weak to be head of the Mournlands...

Thoughts?

jh


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Dec 2, 2004)

Say, are you on some kind of anti-Eberron rampage tonight?  (c.f., "Stupid Author Syndrome")

The whole point of Eberron is that there's basically no one higher than 10th-level or so.

The Lord of Blades is, at most, 20 years old.  I'd say 12th-level is pretty spot on.


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## Emirikol (Dec 2, 2004)

No, just like to bring up controversial topics like this one. (read my sig and you'll understand why).  

jh


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## Emirikol (Dec 2, 2004)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> The Lord of Blades is, at most, 20 years old.  I'd say 12th-level is pretty spot on.





That is probably low if he was constantly fighting during the wars..especially in the mournlands..is he from there?  The article is unclear on P.16 DUNGEON 111.

jh


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Dec 2, 2004)

I read your sig.

That's why I was really, *really*, confused. 

The "true origins" of the Lord of Blades are, as far as I know, still a secret.

EDIT:

To add, examine his class levels.  He's a Ftr 2 / Artificer etc.

He's not really a front-line combatant multiclass mix, therefore, you'd expect his actual role in the fighting to be somewhat less than, say, a warforged Fighter 4 or Barbarian 3 or somesuch.

Also, it was only fairly recently in campaign terms that warforged were anything other than meatshield classes.  This would indicate that the Lord of Blades is, perhaps, one of the last of the 'forged to have been produced.


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## Megatron (Dec 2, 2004)

CR has nothing to do with spheres of influence or power.


 Also, If you actually look around, you'll find that the LoBster is statted out several different ways. They aren't going to give him a definite statblock.


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## Emirikol (Dec 2, 2004)

Megatron said:
			
		

> CR has nothing to do with spheres of influence or power.





No doubt an encounter with him would have a really high EL.  He's listed to be surrounded by lieutenants and probably lots of 'kinda' loyal troops.  Heh.  My guess is probably the breakdown like this:

Population is 980 warforged (probably about 70% loyal to LoBster)
Roughly 500 x 1000 miles = 500,000 square miles of NOTHINGNESS
Roughly 2 warforged per 1000 square miles.
One Lieutenant per 100 warforged = 7 Lieutenants. 

LoBster
2 attendant lieutenants (other five spread out or on patrol)  CR 8 each
100 personal warforged (other 600 spread out or on patrol)   CR 2 each

That's an EL of what?

jh


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## hong (Dec 2, 2004)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> The whole point of Eberron is that there's basically no one higher than 10th-level or so.




... well, not until in two years' time anyway, when the first Eberron campaigns will be hitting 15th level and people will start wanting uber NPCs to kill.


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## Spatula (Dec 2, 2004)

Emirikol said:
			
		

> Thoughts?



He's not a world-shattering threat like the other big baddies in the setting.  Which means he makes a good defeatable villian for the PCs to face before they're strong enough to directly oppose the Lords of Dust, the Dreaming Dark, etc.

It's been said that the intention is that the LoB can grow with the PCs, and it is easier to add levels (to make him a proper match for the group) than to take them away.  12th level makes him pretty bad-ass, in the scheme of things, and sets him up as a foe that can't be taken out until you hit at least 9th-10th level.  But, if you need him to be stronger, it's not difficult to make him so.


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## Starman (Dec 2, 2004)

Spatula has hit the nail on the head. The Eberron book states that the villains should gain in strength along with the PCs. If you intend to have the PCs face someone like the Lord of Blades at a lower level, great. If they run into him at a higher level, just tack on some more class levels to him.

Look at some of the sample antagonists in the back of the book. There's a reason they give examples of them at several different levels of power.

Basically, there's no set level for any of the baddies in Eberron. They are whatever level they are needed to be a to present a challenge to your PCs.

Starman


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## Creamsteak (Dec 2, 2004)

Emirikol said:
			
		

> I was just checking out the stats for the Lord of Blades.
> 
> Ftr2/Artificer5/Warforged Juggernaut5: CR12; ph 121; AC24; Atk +12 melee (1d4+4 slam) or +13 melee (1d8+5/17-20, +1 keen adamantine two-bladed sword).  AL:  LE!
> Stats:  str 18; dex 15; con 16; int 14; wis 11; cha16
> ...




He's good enough. Hopefully he survives the two encounters he's planning to have with my group. I don't expect him to win, but he should be quite able to hit and get back.

Also, I wouldn't call him the "head" of the Mournlands. The way I percieve the region, he only has a small amount of control over the region, and there are wandering monsters that could probably take him if he wasn't careful enough.


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## Berandor (Dec 2, 2004)

Emirikol, welcome to the folds of Nightfall, et al. May Eberron stay true to you, always.


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## Gez (Dec 2, 2004)

Keith Baker said (in the Ask Keith Baker threads over at boards1.wizards.com) that there were two kinds of villains in Eberron.

The Archvillains of immense power (Lords of Dust, Dreaming Dark, etc.), that stay in the background and are not directly involved; and the BBEG the players will fight, that are within reasonnable CR range of the PCs.

The former are unmutable, they are millenia old. The latter evolve as the same rate as, or slightly slower than, the PC.

The Lord of Blades is in the latter category. He's just level 12, but by the time the player reach level 10, he will be level 15.


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## Zweischneid (Dec 2, 2004)

> No doubt an encounter with him would have a really high EL. He's listed to be surrounded by lieutenants and probably lots of 'kinda' loyal troops. Heh. My guess is probably the breakdown like this:




No doubt an encounter with him would be really heavy on roleplaying because the very existance (and meeting) of this NPC touches on dozends of themes, issues and problems of the Warforged, the Last War and the whole Setting in general. 


But hey, if you need to tough up the encounter for your players, it's nowhere written that just cause the Lord of Blades is the charismatic brain behind it, he has to be the highest CR out there. 

He could easily have a 'dumb-as-a-lump' Warforged Titan Barbarien 31/ Fighter 17/Frenzied Berserker  9/Reaping Mauler 4/ Juggernaut 11 with the new Spellresistance alloy 214 named '_Smasha_' follow him like a puppy and pimpslap the players around while LoB stands to the side with arms crossed and makes sly remarks. If thats it, what makes your game fly.


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## Hand of Evil (Dec 2, 2004)

It is all in how he is used.    

It is a VERY BIG GUN...it is also in what he has.


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## RangerWickett (Dec 2, 2004)

Hmm.  If the Lord of Blades is 12th level, perhaps it wasn't a great idea for me to have a character in my Eberron novel submission be able to teleport.  Sure, I wanted a nifty Dragonmark power, but they might not've liked a 10th level hero.

I'm still confident, though.

Anyway, we know that the Lord of Blades is just the face.  The real power behind the throne is Gook, the 16th lich goblin sorcerer.


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## monboesen (Dec 2, 2004)

> ... well, not until in two years' time anyway, when the first Eberron campaigns will be hitting 15th level and people will start wanting uber NPCs to kill.[QUOTE/]
> 
> More like 2 months the way many games seem to go..


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 2, 2004)

For that setting, he's extremely powerful.


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## Creamsteak (Dec 2, 2004)

Meh, I just wanted to get this off my chest. Here's the background for my encounter planned for the LoB, and I'll take any comments I can get.

*My Players Don't Read*

[sblock]In my game, I have two encounters with the LoB planned for in a half-dozen sessions or so. My party, after a few more adventures in Sharn (bringing them up to 10th-11th levels) will be using a couple of the hooks from the Dragonshards articles that I've combined. I've been planning for this for a while, and although I could see my players chosing a different direction, they would probably find this particular adventure worth it, and they want to take a trip out of Sharn again soon.

Anyway, the LoB, the Emerald Claw, House Cannith, Morgrave University (partially represented by the PCs), and House Lyrandar (partially represented by the PCs) are working against each other in a fight to find the remnants of a crashed prototype airship called the Redwing. 

The Redwing I crashed in Lake Galifar during the Last War, when it was using it's timeskimming/planejumping drive to attempt to race around the world and "complete" the tests for the prototype. There is a horrible flaw though, and the thing (including it's eldritch device) goes down. It's been 8 years since that crash, and just now people are starting to figure things out. House Cannith knew about the accident as soon as it happened, raided the original craft deep underwater, and excavated the eldritch machine. Then they started creating a new Redwing (the Redwing II, for lack of a better name) prototype.

After the adventure where the characters will help a professor out of Morgrave recover the ship via means that would take forever to go over, they will gain a clue as to where the ship originated from. That's the key to finding the way to the facility where the Redwing II was being created. Cannith West and Cannith East both have documents notorized by Sivis that the ship "belongs" to them, but neither has the full charter for the craft. They also have no idea which facility the construction was occuring in.

The destruction of Cyre ended the project 3 days before it's scheduled launch date. The thing could be made operation with a quick retrofit, and by turning on it's "crew." The Crew are 10 bronzewood/bronze warforged named Red One through Red Ten. Two are scout models that act as the engineers. The rest serve other purposes on the ship including everything except piloting (which requires a house Lyrandar heir more than likely, though you could still control the craft normally by beating the fire elementals Charisma check (Fire Elementals Charisma is 18).

The craft is 33% faster than a conventional Lyrandar galleon, has 50% less space for Cargo and Crew (since Warforged work 24-7, and the eldritch machine takes up a large amount of what would be cargo space and the need for cargo is minimal). It's most important feature is the restored eldritch device, which is still missing key components, though it would certainly be a useful conventional airship. This ship was a House Cannith design for Cyre, and does not use a wheel of wind and water which would aid a House Lyrandar heir in controlling the vessel. It's original mission was actually entirely unrelated to the Last War, though I havn't completely developed that hook.

So, the craft is still in it's underground hanger that looks over the lake nearest the Mournlands, built into a small cliffside. It could be brought out, and possibly retrofitted to go. It still has the -not quite functioning- (random events maybe?) eldritch machine, which I think should make for an interesting plot device one way or another. Anyway, my plan is to have the LoB actively persuing this device (but with little idea of where it is because the PCs already took out his information source). So him and two lieutenants are going to track the PCs once they are sighted in the Mournlands, and attack them when they try to activate the airship or afterwards. He wants both the new unnactivated warforged, the airship, and most of all the eldritch device so that he can put it to "good" use.

I'm going to go for the Indiana Jones-ish escape via aircraft at the last second as the warforged servants of the LoB start to overwhelm the secret underground facility, and of course after the LoB has monologued like a classic villain. The Emerald Claw will likely get in the way at the last possible second, and result in a clash between the EC and the LoBsters. I'm hoping the PCs escape with most of their skin, and hopefully the airship.

Anyway, I figure that the LoB needs to be a moderate villain, not necessarily a "bad" guy, just extremely prejudiced agaisnt the flesh races. The second encounter (less developed and not likely to happen for a long while), would be something akin to boarding the ship or trying to take it down from the ground. I'm not completely certain on that.[/sblock]


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## Eremite (Dec 2, 2004)

hong said:
			
		

> ... well, not until in two years' time anyway, when the first Eberron campaigns will be hitting 15th level and people will start wanting uber NPCs to kill.




Exactly. All these people who go on about how wonderful Eberron is because, unlike FR, it doesn't have hordes of high-level NPCs seem to forget:

1. FR started the same way... and now has hordes of high-level NPCs;
2. Eberron will end up the same way as the setting "ages" and demand for higher level foes and adventures increases; and
3. of course, the initial high degree of care and attention from Keith Baker will be replaced by the the more familiar "crank it out quickly and don't worry about the spelling" development process.


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 2, 2004)

As a longtime FR player I call BS on the whole FR starting with low power. Elminster was statted up as a 26th levevl (or was it 19th) mage long before the FR setting ever came out with hints of other characters of vast power there long noted.


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## Glyfair (Dec 2, 2004)

Emirikol said:
			
		

> That is probably low if he was constantly fighting during the wars..especially in the mournlands..is he from there?  The article is unclear on P.16 DUNGEON 111.




Note that this is just one set of stats for the Lord of Blades.  Keith has stated that _at least_ one other, completely different, set of stats is set to appear for the Lord of Blades.

Also note that NPCs aren't assumed to gain levels the same way player characters do.  Of course, the Lord of Blades is closer to a PC than most NPC's, so there is a lot of gray area here.


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## Arnwyn (Dec 2, 2004)

JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> As a longtime FR player I call BS on the whole FR starting with low power. Elminster was statted up as a 26th levevl (or was it 19th) mage long before the FR setting ever came out



Oh? Reference?


> with hints of other characters of vast power there long noted.



I agree with this. The campaign world was already being wisely prepared to adequately higher-level PCs within the context of the rules in a logical manner.

I'm curious to see what lies in store for Eberron's future products - in my eyes, the reasonableness (word?) for high-level campaigns looks slim so far.


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## Staffan (Dec 2, 2004)

arnwyn said:
			
		

> Oh? Reference?



Dunno about before the setting came out, but I'm 98% certain that he was described as a 26th level magic-user in the Grey Box FR set (and Forgotten Realms Adventures), and got bumped up to 29th in the 2nd ed box.


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## Sejs (Dec 2, 2004)

> Oh? Reference?



 FR Grey Box.


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## Quasqueton (Dec 2, 2004)

Stats: str 18; dex 15; con 16; int 14; wis 11; cha16

Thats 53 points (point buy).

Ha! Take that PCs! You may catch up to him in level, but he's still better than you at his core.

Quasqueton


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## Allanon (Dec 2, 2004)

arnwyn said:
			
		

> Oh? Reference?
> 
> I agree with this. The campaign world was already being wisely prepared to adequately higher-level PCs within the context of the rules in a logical manner.
> 
> I'm curious to see what lies in store for Eberron's future products - in my eyes, the reasonableness (word?) for high-level campaigns looks slim so far.



 Why? Between the Lords of Dust, Dreaming Dark, Daelkyr (which scale to 50HD, more than a challenge for 20th level pc's) and Vol the lich I see no shortage of high level opponents and adventures. Eberron like FR has more than enough ways to challenge high level npc's. But without idiotic NPC's like Elminster, Drizz't, etc. which either overshadow the players or are always busy with something else epic and world shattering.


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 2, 2004)

Staffan said:
			
		

> Dunno about before the setting came out, but I'm 98% certain that he was described as a 26th level magic-user in the Grey Box FR set (and Forgotten Realms Adventures), and got bumped up to 29th in the 2nd ed box.




Dragon Magazine.

Ed Greenwood used to write Pages for the Mages and one of the spells was like GemJump and somewhere around there was Elminster. Mention was made I believe of Mirt and some other Waterdeep boys but it's been many a year and yes, it was before the grey boxed FR set that brought the Forgotten Realms to AD&D 1st edition before Forgotten Realms Adventure and the whole Avatar Trilogy or the cool no-crisis update of Forgotten Realms campaign setting. See, Ed used to use this little thing called background back then, now called Fluff, and the guys at TSR were like... "Uh... is there actually a setting for this? We want something new..." and hence, FR came to TSR.


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## Arnwyn (Dec 2, 2004)

Sejs said:
			
		

> FR Grey Box.



Not helpful. The above reference was to "before the FR setting ever came out".


			
				Staffan said:
			
		

> but I'm 98% certain that he was described as a 26th level magic-user in the Grey Box FR set (and Forgotten Realms Adventures), and got bumped up to 29th in the 2nd ed box.



Correct, but again, not helpful. See above.


			
				JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> Dragon Magazine. Ed Greenwood used to write Pages for the Mages and one of the spells was like GemJump and somewhere around there was Elminster.



His level was first quoted in the Dragon magazine where the Gemjump spell was first detailed? Interesting FR tidbit!


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## Arnwyn (Dec 2, 2004)

Allanon said:
			
		

> Why?



What do you mean, "why"? Because people are saying that (to paraphrase) "the point of Eberron is that there's basically no one above 10th level". Not to call any specific poster(s) out onto the carpet, but are people lying or do they simply not know what they're talking about?

So, which is it?


> Between the Lords of Dust, Dreaming Dark, Daelkyr (which scale to 50HD, more than a challenge for 20th level pc's) and Vol the lich I see no shortage of high level opponents and adventures. Eberron like FR has more than enough ways to challenge high level npc's. But without idiotic NPC's like Elminster, Drizz't, etc.



I see little difference, nor do I see anything that backs up the term "idiotic". No idea what you're talking about. So: are there or aren't there high level NPCs?


> which either overshadow the players



I've seen no evidence of that.


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## Nightfall (Dec 2, 2004)

Berandor said:
			
		

> Emirikol, welcome to the folds of Nightfall, et al. May Eberron stay true to you, always.



And what's that supposed to mean...?


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## Knight Otu (Dec 2, 2004)

arnwyn said:
			
		

> What do you mean, "why"? Because people are saying that (to paraphrase) "the point of Eberron is that there's basically no one above 10th level". Not to call any specific poster(s) out onto the carpet, but are people lying or do they simply not know what they're talking about?



 The "point" is, that there are almost no high-level *allies* for the characters. The best you'l find is an awakened tree druid who prefers to stay where he is, and the Keeper of the Flame, who pretty much has to stay where she is, or lose most of her power. High-level characters of dubious to antagonistic (not necessarily evil) nature are more common.


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## Desdichado (Dec 2, 2004)

I'd say anyone claiming that the "point" of Eberron is that there is nobody higher than 10th level simply doesn't know what they're talking about.  There are a fair amount of higher level PCs than that in the Sharn sourcebook.

Eberron certainly does have a different focus than, say, Forgotten Realms in terms of the expected life of a campaign, PC and what levels are most likely to be played.  There's no call to run around saying either approach is idiotic, IMO.

Although I greatly prefer the Eberron paradigm on level, for what that's worth (very little.)


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Dec 2, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I'd say anyone claiming that the "point" of Eberron is that there is nobody higher than 10th level simply doesn't know what they're talking about.




BS.

I said it first, and I stand by it.

The campaign setting is structured in such a way that there is not the "Archmage on every corner" situation that happens in some other settings.

Does this mean that there is literally *nobody* higher than 10th level in the entire Eberron multiverse?

Of course not, but then if that's what you read into that comment, you need your reading comprehension skills checked.

Are there dragons?  Check.  Beholders?  Check.  Ancient archwizards scheming for power?  Check.

Is every kingdom ruled by an 18th-level Fighter, assisted by his 24th-level Court Wizard? No.  Is every university staffed with 15th-level Diviners? No.  Is every Dragonmarked House headed by a 17th-level Rogue?  No.

*That* is the point I was addressing.


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## Desdichado (Dec 2, 2004)

Well, that's not really the same point, though, is it?  You'd be better served by trying to communicate your points clearly instead of insulting people who take what you say more or less at face value.


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## Nightfall (Dec 2, 2004)

Josh, 

I think your point would be better served if you just keep yelling. Apparently that's how this "issues" get solved.

Is the Lord of Blades tough? No. I've seen tougher. But he's tough for Eberron perhaps and that's fine. He could be MADE tougher depending on how people play Eberron. In any event your view is fine Josh. (Though my hope is to shift this kind of attention for Eberronic details to Scarred Lands when I get more things settled.)


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Dec 2, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Well, that's not really the same point, though, is it?  You'd be better served by trying to communicate your points clearly instead of insulting people who take what you say more or less at face value.




Hey - who invited the pedants?


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## Eremite (Dec 2, 2004)

JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> As a longtime FR player I call BS on the whole FR starting with low power. Elminster was statted up as a 26th levevl (or was it 19th) mage long before the FR setting ever came out with hints of other characters of vast power there long noted.




Well, call BS if you like but a single high-level NPC does not make a horde. The bulk of the NPCs were not uber-NPCs of the kind that are decried now. Also, if it weren't for the novels, I am sure there would have been even fewer. Of course, if it weren't for the novels, and their success, we probably wouldn't be playing later versions of D&D....

One of the other innovative (for the time) lower-power ideas in the Grey Box was that of not providing stats for the deities. Remember the first Greyhawk boxed set (which I loved, BTW; I am not one to slam Greyhawk)? A lot of the deities were statted up as "munchkin fodder".


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## Piratecat (Dec 2, 2004)

Please keep your posts polite and without insults.


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 3, 2004)

Eremite said:
			
		

> Well, call BS if you like but a single high-level NPC does not make a horde. The bulk of the NPCs were not uber-NPCs of the kind that are decried now. Also, if it weren't for the novels, I am sure there would have been even fewer. Of course, if it weren't for the novels, and their success, we probably wouldn't be playing later versions of D&D....
> 
> One of the other innovative (for the time) lower-power ideas in the Grey Box was that of not providing stats for the deities. Remember the first Greyhawk boxed set (which I loved, BTW; I am not one to slam Greyhawk)? A lot of the deities were statted up as "munchkin fodder".




Seven Sisters?

The Choosen?

Spellfire?

I'm not saying that you're 100% wrong in that there weren't as MANY high level NPC's, but the Forgotten Realms has always has it's powerful spellcasters about and many of them much more powerful than the default Greyhawk characters. 

I am mistaken, or isn't is in the Grey box, they even talk about making certain characters at least five levels higher than the higher character in your campaign if you need to keep them in track?

And yeah, the Greyhawk gods were statted up. One of the first settings that was following the methods brought out by the Legend & Lore book (or was it before it... senility... arg!).


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## Desdichado (Dec 3, 2004)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Hey - who invited the pedants?



There's a difference between being pedantic, and interpreting mild hyperbole at more or less face value.  I still say there's a world of difference between the statements (and I'm paraphrasing), _"the whole point of Eberron is that nobody is higher than 10th level"_ and _"Eberron doesn't have FR-like epic level NPCs in every major city"_


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## Patlin (Dec 3, 2004)

Zweischneid said:
			
		

> He could easily have a 'dumb-as-a-lump' Warforged Titan Barbarien 31/ Fighter 17/Frenzied Berserker  9/Reaping Mauler 4/ Juggernaut 11 with the new Spellresistance alloy 214 named '_Smasha_' follow him like a puppy and pimpslap the players around while LoB stands to the side with arms crossed and makes sly remarks. If thats it, what makes your game fly.




The levels are a bit high for my taste, but what a beautiful concept!  Perhaps just a Warforged Titan Barbarian 10...


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## Zweischneid (Dec 3, 2004)

> There's a difference between being pedantic, and interpreting mild hyperbole at more or less face value. I still say there's a world of difference between the statements (and I'm paraphrasing), "the whole point of Eberron is that nobody is higher than 10th level" and "Eberron doesn't have FR-like epic level NPCs in every major city"




Setting Shift

Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Elminister only 
Components: V, S, F 
Casting Time: 1 standard action 
Range: self 
Target: Elminister or up to eight willing creatures joining hands from the following list: Drizzt, Khelben Blackstaff, Sememmon, Szass Tam or any Chosen of Mystra
Duration: Instantaneous 
Saving Throw: none 
Spell Resistance: none

You move yourself or some other creature to another D&D Setting or alternate Campaign concept. If several willing persons link hands in a circle, as many as eight can be affected by the plane shift at the same time. Precise accuracy as to a particular arrival location on the intended Setting is certainly possible. From your home in the Realms, you can reach any other Setting and appear right behind the closest low-level PC of your choice.

Note: Setting shift transports creatures instantaneously and then ends. But ya know, the Elminister will always find other means to travel back.

Focus: one eversmoking Pipe


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## Emirikol (Dec 3, 2004)

So, I don't think anybody here can figure out the EL question that this thread is actually about:  What's the EL for that single encounter?


jh


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## Dr Simon (Dec 3, 2004)

Eremite said:
			
		

> Exactly. All these people who go on about how wonderful Eberron is because, unlike FR, it doesn't have hordes of high-level NPCs seem to forget:
> 
> 1. FR started the same way... and now has hordes of high-level NPCs;




Hmm... 

I had the original FR boxed set. I don't think you're right here. The El-man, Symbul etc. were already present. My memory is hazy about characters like Fzoul and Mourngrim, but my impression was of lots of high-level rulers.

No Drizz't at that time, though.


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## Squire James (Dec 3, 2004)

Zweischneid said:
			
		

> He could easily have a 'dumb-as-a-lump' Warforged Titan Barbarien 31/ Fighter 17/Frenzied Berserker  9/Reaping Mauler 4/ Juggernaut 11 with the new Spellresistance alloy 214 named '_Smasha_' follow him like a puppy and pimpslap the players around while LoB stands to the side with arms crossed and makes sly remarks. If thats it, what makes your game fly.




Um, you might want to remove the Frenzied Berserker levels, or the LoB goes down right after that thing kills the party...  other than that, I suppose he  could have a big gun that shoots these things at the party as bullets!


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## Zweischneid (Dec 3, 2004)

> Um, you might want to remove the Frenzied Berserker levels, or the LoB goes down right after that thing kills the party... other than that, I suppose he could have a big gun that shoots these things at the party as bullets!




Uh.. well, how about we replace the Frenzied Berserker with a few levels of Hulking Hurler? I am not quite set on the concept yet and my let the WoTC Min/Max board tune it up for me... 

... but than again, I could just declare all PC dead! I am the DM after all, so stop whining. *maniacal evil laughter*

























Ok... I though it was obvious, but incase it was not: the Warforged Titan build I posted was supposed to be slightly exaggerated, i.e. an attempt of ironic humor on my part. 
Pls do not stat him up or critizise the actual value of the build.  Thanks!


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## megamania (Dec 5, 2004)

Before this officially becomes an Elminister thread....

Eberron, like ANY world can be adjusted to fit your players tastes and speed.  Baker has been said to prefer levels 5-8.  Lord of Blades as being a level 12 character is a challenge this way based solely on CR.

NOW  keep in mind what he is....

He is the only organized force within a wiped out area the size of a country.  He is not all powerful, but he is the closest thing to it.  If you mess with the Mournelands, you will need to deal with him.

Now for how much of a challenge he is...
He is set up to a thorn in one's side and an excellent Roleplaying possibility.  He is selfrightious zealot that has a commanding presence and influence over warforged beings whom are lost at what to do.  They are looking for a leader and a purpose.  Enter their savior-  The Lord of Blades.

Though he is already an influence in my game (using Forgotten Forge and Shadows of the Last War) he has not appeared nor even been mentioned.  Once my players do know of his existance, there will be role playing possibilities.  He is in effect a king.  To get to him, you must enter his country (not easy being the Mournelands) and go through his minions whom are BELIEVERS of him.  They do what what they do not for money but for spiritual belief.  They will do anything for him.

In the same token, he is smart and cunning.  He is a manipulator also.  The way I am planning on using him is he truely feels his "people" are unjustly used and viewed by the common races BUT he wants power.  He wants power over them, over humanoids and the common races.  

He is as powerful as you want him because of INFLUENCE.  He could be level 1 barbarian but if he commands these folks as he does, you will be 15+ level just to reach him.

I once read an artical that suggested he was the Dr. Doom (Marvel Comics) of Eberron.  He is not super powerful in a one on one fight but he plans out everything, has tons of resources and tons of followers.  Going through the feilds of the Mournelands, he has tons of weapons, including magical weapons of Mass Destruction.  COUNTRIES will fear his possible motives and reasons for being.  
Thus, if PCs want to remove him, they may have to deal with Breland or Karrnath.  Epic level anyone?  Not convinced yet?   The Dragons may want him alive.  Do you wish to fight an army of angry dragons (multiple types)?

Its how the game is played ...not the characters own level that creates the Challenge Rating in my own mind.

'nuff said.


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