# Polearm Build - Help



## Bloodweaver1 (Oct 8, 2006)

I could use some advice on optimizing a polearm build I am putting together. The constrants I have to work are as follows:

Race: Dwarf
Points: 82 
Level: 6
Core Classes only and must be able to enter the Kensia PrC (CW) by lvl 8, however feats can come from any WoTC book.

Thanks in advance!!

-Blood


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 8, 2006)

Before we continue, does your DM allow stuff from Dragon?  (Despite not being WotC, Paizo's stuff in Dragon is "100% Official Content.")

If so, your first move it to pick up DCv1- its full of Polearm feats and polearms of all kinds.

Beyond that, you'll want some kind of way to deal with opponents that get within your reach area- usually meaning IUC or Armor Spikes.  Using armor spikes spares you a feat, but depending on your build, IUC can be more effective (in other words, your PC takes levels of Monk or the 3.5 updated OA Shaman, so your unarmed attacks increase in potency with level advancement).

As I recall, there is a FR regional feat that allows you to get +5' reach with a polearm.  There is a completely different but functionally identical one in DCv1.

The most recent version of a polearm-using PC had an ultra-high dex and Combat Reflexes, used a Bisento (Martial, 1d12 x2 slashing reach 10') from AEG's version of Rokugan/OA.  Because of the particular build, Feats were at a premium, otherwise I would have chosen a GreatSpear, which adds being a ranged weapon to the mix.


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## pawsplay (Oct 8, 2006)

Reach or no reach? Depending on what you're looking for, your weapon is probably a greatspear, halberd, or glaive. If you have reach, you definitely want Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line, and if you have a halberd, you definitely want Combat Expertise and Improved Trip.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Oct 8, 2006)

Dragon magazine is a 'no-go'.
There is a feat in PHBII called 'Short Haft' that allows you to attack those adjacent to you with a polearm via a swift action. I was thinking of a high dex with combat reflexes as well.  
Now that I think about it, if AoO is going to be a large means of attacking, then Deft Opportunist would be a good investment. No? Other thoughts on the matter???

Thanks again!!

-Blood


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## FalcWP (Oct 8, 2006)

Go with a guisearme.  Get a high dex, good strength, at least a 13 intelligence.  Pick up Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip.

Person moves through a square you threaten - you take an AoO and attempt to trip him.  If you succeed, he's prone (-4 to melee AC) and you get a free attack.  If he attempts to stand up, he provokes an AoO.  Rinse and repeat.

As far as getting to be a Kensai by level 8:  

You already have Combat Expertise.  You need Weapon Focus, which can be easily gained by a level of fighter (I'd suggest 4 levels of fighter, though more is acceptable).

You need 5 ranks each in Concentration, Ride, and Diplomacy.  Ride, obviously, is easy.  Concentration and Diplomacy are cross-class skills for a Fighter.  However, they are class skills for a Paladin.  

My suggestion might be a Dwarven Fighter 4/Paladin 2.  (You're actually eligible at Fighter 4/Paladin 1 or Fighter 3/Paladin 2, but Weapon Spec and Divine Grace are both really handy, so...)  In addition to Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip, add Short Haft, Weapon Focus (Guisearme) and Weapon Specialization (Guisearme).  Bump your Charisma up as high as you can get it, for the bonus to saves.  If you're willing to give up being a Dwarf (human is likely your next best bet, though an elf gets you +2 Dex), you can avoid the Charisma penalty, but it's entirely your call.  Also notice that one of a dwarf's benefits, the ability to move full speed in heavy or medium armor, is likely to be negated by your high dex build.  Note that if you did go with an Elf, you may want to go either Fighter 4/Paladin 3, or Paladin 3/Fighter 2, to avoid the multiclassing penalty.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Oct 8, 2006)

How would people suggest the 82 point distro?

-Blood


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## pawsplay (Oct 8, 2006)

A dwarf with a 12 Int (which you will have for Combat Expertise) can have 5 ranks in each of those skills as a 7th level fighter. Bumping Charisma seems like a wasted endeavor, and dwarves already have pretty good saves.  Most of the time, you can just maneuver, but with a lot invested in a polearm, Short Haft isn't a bad investment.

82 points straight up?
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8

Feats
1 Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2 Combat Reflexes
3 Hold the Line
4 Weapon Focus (polearm with reach)
6 Short Haft, Weapon Specialization

From there, you can start taking things like Deft Opportunist, Robilar's Gambit, Improved Critical and so forth.

Skillwise, with a 13 Int, you'll have 5 ranks in Ride, Concentration, and Diplomacy, with 5 more ranks in Fighter skills to play around with.

In terms of gear, you might as well go with heavy armor. Your Dex isn't so high to make that a bad choice, even if you cap out your bonus. Until you get mithril, full plate or a breatplate are your best options.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Oct 8, 2006)

I kinda agree with the fighter/paladin combo for weapon spec and divine grace. Plus it allows one to get into the Kensai PrC one level quicker. Though I adimt that at first glance at the 2d4 for damage, I was a bit skeptical. However, I guess damage is not the main reason of this build. Its trips and AoO are. For stats, how this? Str: 18 - Dex: 14 - Con: 14 - Int: 13 - Wis: 10 - Cha: 14. 
For gear I was given 8k: any suggestions?

Thanks for all the help

-Blood


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## pawsplay (Oct 8, 2006)

Don't rush to get into Kensai? Seriously, it's a nice class, but with medium BAB and only ten levels, what's the rush?


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## Bloodweaver1 (Oct 8, 2006)

Going straight fighter at lvl 7 only gives me one more feat and gives me less ranks into concentration which helps with the 'Withstand' ability within the PrC.  Granted the extra BaB is nice, but the difference seems nominal.. no?

7 fighter = 5 ranks 
4/2 fig/pld = 7 ranks

-Blood


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## pawsplay (Oct 8, 2006)

It gives you one feat and one BAB. With Int 13, it won't take long to max out your Concentration skill anyway. And the saving throw bonus you get from going into paladin is somewhat mitigated by bad rounding giving you -1 to your base Will and Reflexes. Aside from that fact that Withstand supercedes your paladin bonus. 

I would totally prefer one more feat and +1 BAB. You could even ditch a non-fighter feat for Skill focus (Concentration) and you're still ahead.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Oct 8, 2006)

I see your point and I am going to chew on it for a bit. However, I have another question. In the PHB it says you do not incure an AoO while triping with a reach weapon such as the guisarme. If that is so the case, what is the point of taking Combat Expertise and Improved Trip if one has the feat Short Haft from the PHBII. Which allows you to use a reach weapon on adjacent targets. *Can you trip targets when using the Short haft feat?*

Again all, thanks on all of the help!


-Blood


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 8, 2006)

For a reach-polearm wielding AoO lovin' dwarf, I'd go:

Str 16, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8

OR:

Str 18, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8

...almost regardless of the particular polearm you choose.

The idea behind that build means the more AoOs the better, and you're trying to keep opponents at a distance anyway, so your Dex will matter more to you than your Con.

Personally, I'd pass up Short Haft in favor of Armor Spikes and taking Deft Opportunist earlier.


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## FalcWP (Oct 8, 2006)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I see your point and I am going to chew on it for a bit. However, I have another question. In the PHB it says you do not incure an AoO while triping with a reach weapon such as the guisarme. If that is so the case, what is the point of taking Combat Expertise and Improved Trip if one has the feat Short Haft from the PHBII. Which allows you to use a reach weapon on adjacent targets. *Can you trip targets when using the Short haft feat?*
> 
> Again all, thanks on all of the help!
> 
> ...





The big point of Improved Trip is that, once you trip someone, you get a free attack against them.  That's *huge*, because not only do you hamper your opponents on AoOs, you don't sacrifice damage to do so.  You also get a +4 on trip attacks, which is big.

And I don't see anything that says you can't use a guisearme to make trip attacks while using Short Haft.

For the whole pure Fighter vs. Fighter/Paladin thing:  It is personal preference.  You *can* get the requisite skill ranks as a pure fighter, by level 7.  However, you're buying them cross-class, and you're taking longer to get them.  Now, yes, you're a fighter-type, and skill points aren't your bread and butter, so you may be fine spending twice as many.  However, I think Paladin synergizes nicely into this build, and, thus, recommend two to three levels of it, depending on race.  Dwarf does lessen the boost a bit (namely, you need a 16 Charisma, which gets adjusted down to a 14, for Divine Grace to really be good), but, still.  +2 to all saves is well worth a feat, in my opinion.  Even a +1 to all saves might be worth it.  That's not counting the very limited, but still potentially useful, abilities like Lay on Hands, Detect Evil, Smite Evil (yes, it'd be very weak), or the always fun ability to use wands and scrolls of spells on the Paladin list.

For gear:  It depends on the party composition, and if you take Paladin levels or not.  +1 Guisearme, +1 Mithral Shirt, Ring of Protection +1, and a Wand of Cure Light Wounds if you think extra healing would be handy and you go Paladin.  Otherwise, swap the wand for a Cloak of Resistance +1 to help your saves.  You can go with heavier armor, but this will let you apply your full Dex mod, which is handy.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Oct 9, 2006)

I was thinking of holding off on getting a magical weapon as the kensai PrC creates one. I was thinking of making the weapon out of a special material, but I do not forsee that being an issure in this game. Mitheral armor would be good considering the high dex (I was considering breast plate) and I guess a amulet or ring of protection would be a good idea considering the lack of a shield. The party has a full cleric so I think a wand will not be necessary, so the cloak should work. Any other ideas?

-Blood


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## Legildur (Oct 9, 2006)

Not that I've really had a chance to play it thoroughly yet, but I built a 6th level character for spiked chain wielder specifically for battlefield control.  I ended up taking a half-orc Bbn1/Ftr2/Clr3.  Deity was Kord (Strength and Luck domains).  I took the alternate cleric ability from PHBII where you can spontaneously cast spells from one domain (and lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells).  Enlarge Person is a 1st level spell from the Strength domain.  Even one level of cleric (with at least a 12 Wis) could be worth it for the size bonus to tripping and strength.

If you concentrate on tripping, then a non-magical weapon is not a big deal... except for incorporeal undead and critters with damage reduction x/magic.


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## moritheil (Oct 9, 2006)

pawsplay said:
			
		

> Don't rush to get into Kensai? Seriously, it's a nice class, but with medium BAB and only ten levels, what's the rush?




Isn't Kensai full BAB?

Anyhow, rather than Ftr 1/Pal 4 or Ftr 3/Pal 2, consider Ranger 1/Ftr 2/Pal 2.  The only reason to take Fighter 3 is to take more levels of fighter after - and if you're dead set on Kensai, that seems unlikely.


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## szilard (Oct 9, 2006)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I was thinking of holding off on getting a magical weapon as the kensai PrC creates one.




I'm fairly certain that the Kensai weapon enhancements stack with those of a magical weapon.

-Stuart


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## hafrogman (Oct 9, 2006)

szilard said:
			
		

> I'm fairly certain that the Kensai weapon enhancements stack with those of a magical weapon.
> 
> -Stuart




I'm fairly certain they don't.


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## szilard (Oct 9, 2006)

hafrogman said:
			
		

> I'm fairly certain they don't.




"Stack" may be the wrong word - but you can get Kensai enhancements on a magical weapon. Complete Warrior has rules for this.

-Stuart


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## Stalker0 (Oct 9, 2006)

The best class for a reach weapon? The knight, hands down.

His 3rd level ability bulwark of defense is the key. You run up to an opponent and hit him with your reach weapon. Now, he takes a 5 foot step on his turn to attack you. EXCEPT!!! Bulwark of defense means he cannot take a 5 foot step, he has to take a 5 foot move to get to you. That provokes an AOO. Not only that, he only gets one attack against you.

On your turn, you take a 5 foot step back and full attack. Rinse and repeat.


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## pawsplay (Oct 10, 2006)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I was thinking of holding off on getting a magical weapon as the kensai PrC creates one. I was thinking of making the weapon out of a special material, but I do not forsee that being an issure in this game. Mitheral armor would be good considering the high dex (I was considering breast plate) and I guess a amulet or ring of protection would be a good idea considering the lack of a shield. The party has a full cleric so I think a wand will not be necessary, so the cloak should work. Any other ideas?
> 
> -Blood




You might as well get a magic weapon you like, if you can, and upgrade it after kensai-ing, unless you like lagging behind in firepower. If you choose a weapon that's not available for looting or purchase, it's a moot point, in which case, I would choose cold iron masterwork.


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