# An interesting Dilemma



## Talysian (Aug 28, 2010)

So my group just finished Module 2 using the 4e ruleset, and while they are loving the story, they are feeling that a lot of the combat doesn't lend much to the story, and served to drag out the Fire Forest. (More of a system Complaint then a module complaint as combat takes us anywhere from 45-90 minutes each in 4e (6 players no one is optimized)) 

 I'm using maptools for the map, and in between the first two modules while I was doing the maps and Icons I ran a couple shot Earthdawn game. Which they loved the rules for.

So they've asked me to convert it over to the ED rules as far as the setting goes I don't have much of a problem working with that. For anyone whom has read both the module and Earthdawn rules (if there is such another person out there) any suggestions?  

Also is there any where out there that is basically a timeline of encounters?

Thanks!


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## Primitive Screwhead (Aug 30, 2010)

I didn't run the Fire in 4e, but that module is the most 'rail-roady' of the modules .. which lends to some of the feel. I have been converting the modules on my own as my game is currently on module 7, but I have also ran into the issue of too much combat. Many of original modules is designed with the 3x pacing built in, and I think some of the earlier conversions retained that. With 4e, the encounters that get played out should be only the ones that alter the story-line by the PC's actions or choices. 'speed-bump' encounters should be hand-waved or turned into skill challenges.

A problem with this approach is the survivability of 4e characters. Without the attrition effect on healing surges and dailies, it becomes very easy for a group to take on the 'key' combat encounters. I am still struggling with how to accomplish thise and have gone so far as 6 combat encounters in a 'day' as well as the use of 'Lethal Obsidion' skill challenges {in which the Druid  lost 4 healing surges in the last session...}
  But even at that, I am not sure I can really challenge the 15th level PCs without risking a TPK. Next session will show the truth as it looks like the entire session will be a massive, long drawn out combat. {three encounters running back to back}

So.. regarding your question.. 4e combat does take time, more so with un-optimized characters and will players who occasionally space whose turn it is... I reccommend pacing your sessions to ensure that the combats are exciting, involving, and hit at a time when your players are at thier peak.


Sorry, no earthdawn experience!


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## alms66 (Sep 5, 2010)

My suggestion would be to convert the feel and general story of WotBS, not the entire thing encounter for encounter if combat times are an issue, as the whole campaign, like everything D&D, has lots of combat in it.
Or if you are going to convert E-for-E, use a system that is quick in combat, like, GURPS for instance, with the option of opposed rolls in combat (Attacker rolls to attack, defender rolls to defend, whoever makes it by more wins).  This particular suggestion in GURPS can be deadly if your characters are facing superior foes though, so be careful with that.  I don't know if Earthdawn supports something similar, but in GURPS, for instance, that one little option can cut combat times by a third or more.


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## Zinovia (Sep 7, 2010)

I can't help you with Earthdawn as I have never played it.  

What I can suggest is that you tone down some of the combats - get rid of some, and make sure at least some of the remaining ones are fairly easy.  Easy fights can still drain a couple surges from the characters, and give the feel that the world is dangerous, without taking an hour to resolve.  For instance, have a single lurker / sniper / spy type attack them.  The group suffers a surprise attack, but it won't take them that long to eliminate the threat.  If it's a spy, they can have fun trying to get information out of him, perhaps becoming a skill challenge, or just as free-form roleplay.  

That isn't to say that none of the fights should be hard.  Make the BBEG's big and bad.  Make them tough.  Make the fights challenging.  But not every room filled with goblins or level 2 guards needs to be like that.  Easier fights go quickly and let the group feel like they are making some progress.  Try making some of the baddies into minions, or perhaps 2-hit minions with a damage threshold.   What I mean by that is that they have a moderate number of HP.  If your damage exceeds that, they die.  If you hit them twice, regardless of the damage done, they die.  It makes crits or sneak attacks against them meaningful, since they can be taken out in 1 round that way.  

Don't worry about xp.  Have the characters level up when it seems appropriate, or give generous story rewards when the group accomplishes plot-related goals.  There's too much of a grind if you require that they fight their way all the way up to level 30.  It becomes tedious.  There's a reason that MMORPG players refer to "grinding levels" when leveling a character.  The focus here should be on the story.  You need to keep the number of combats down to something reasonable.  That number depends on your group, and what they enjoy.   I have mostly given up tracking xp myself, and instead level them as I see fit.  

When a fight is clearly going in favor of the group and there's no chance of them losing, call it.  Tell them "You clearly have the upper hand.  They fight viciously, but you finish them off.  Spend 2 healing surges from anyone in the party to represent the damage they inflicted before you killed them."  Resources expended, foes finished, but the suspenseless resolution of the last few rounds of combat are avoided.  Time is saved.  Boredom is avoided.  

Sometimes DM hand-waving can be your friend.  Unless your group hates that sort of thing.  Mine would rather get on with the story.  Good luck!


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