# D20Zines reviews on ENWorld



## lior_shapira (Dec 8, 2004)

A couple of months back there was a big fall out with the D20Zines site regarding negative comments on their reviews and a very long rant was published in these forums. One aspect of the aftermath was that (I think) D20Zines reviews no longer get cross-posted in Enworld.

So I wanted to know
1. Is this true? I'm 99% sure it is
2. If so I think its really bad and perhaps we can convince D20Zine moderators to reconsider. What do you think?


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## Henry (Dec 8, 2004)

Moved to Meta.

I myself am unsure of the current status of this, but I believe it's correct that new reviews are no longer cross-posted.


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## Morrus (Dec 8, 2004)

I've no idea.  If d20zines have a problem with posting reviews, they've certainly not mentioned it to me.  Unless I hear otherwise, I'll assume everything is continuing as normal.  *shrug*


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## Ghostwind (Dec 8, 2004)

You must have missed this thread, Morrus.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104447

Psion and I had a couple of very candid and upfront email converations after that thread's closure concerning my request and reviews in general. I agreed to let all previous reviews currently in the database remain there as a helpful tool for others looking for more information about those older products. But I also stated that it would likely be some time before I posted any new ones. Why? Because the thread above sums it up nicely. There is a certain 'clique' of individuals in this community (that also includes two or three small-press publishers) that feel it is necessary to drag me, my staff, or my site through the mud because they may disagree with something we said. This has been a problem from day one and I guess I've finally grown tired of it.

d20 Magazine Rack is over four years old and I have worked as hard as anyone at establishing the precedent of being fair and honest when it comes to the reviews there. The site has _earned_ the respect of the industry and others. But it seems that here on EN World, we are still the fair-haired stepchild that folks look down their noses upon. 

One of the things I told Psion in our emails back and forth is that I felt few of EN's staffers or newshounds ever took my site seriously because, while the news from other sites seemed to get posted/noticed on a regular basis, I am the one who has to submit any updates if they are to make it on your news page. So, about once a week I post anywhere from one to three different scoops summing up a week's (or more) news from my site. So, in short, if I want the EN community to know about the new things at my site, I have to do it. Maybe this is the way it is supposed to be, I don't know. I have a hard time believing that Allan Sugerbaker or someone else from RPG.net and some of the other review sites are consistently submitting scoops. But, hey if I'm wrong about this, then I apologize. That's just my view from the outside looking in.

I'm not trying to come across as though I'm whining and complaining like a spoiled brat. (There are a lot of things happening for me on a more personal level right now and I'm sure some of that emotion is bleeding through.) I'm just giving you my take since it's apparent you missed out on the first few volleys that have been fired over the years. It just boils down to wanting the respect that I feel my site has rightfully earned and deserved over the years and my _perceptions_ of how it gets treated here. Morrus, if you want to talk more about this, just email me.


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## Crothian (Dec 8, 2004)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> One of the things I told Psion in our emails back and forth is that I felt few of EN's staffers or newshounds ever took my site seriously because, while the news from other sites seemed to get posted/noticed on a regular basis, I am the one who has to submit any updates if they are to make it on your news page.




The Review staff as far as I know doesn't submit anything to the news page, I know I never have.  Most things that end up on the news are submitted by other people and this includes other review sites.


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## Morrus (Dec 9, 2004)

> It just boils down to wanting the respect that I feel my site has rightfully earned and deserved over the years and my _perceptions_ of how it gets treated here.



 Steve, I may be reading you completely wrong here (I assume you're OK for me to discuss this publicly, since you posted about it publicly) -- you're annoyed because you feel that EN World newshounds should go out of their way to look at your site?

 Just a quick note on how newshounds work - they compile the submitted scoops for the day, they glance at WotC's web page and they check the publisher forum and other areas (e.g. reviews pages, new articles) here at EN World itself.  They diligently report your affiliate status reviews in the reviews section as and when those reviews are posted. If they stumble across something else during their everyday web browsing, then they may throw that into the mix as well. 

_*Fans*_ provide the scoops.  The newshounds report _what people tell them about_ by posting a scoop (as you have done in the past). There are fans out there who kindly scoop RPG.net reviews or Mortality.net reviews, and the newshounds then put those scoops into the day's news. Sometimes specific reviewers at Mortality etc. will scoop their own reviews (I know Kithmaker does this), much like you do.

 Nobody at EN World is giving your website any less attention than any other, excepting WotC's (who, I think you'll agree, are worth making the exception for). You're percieving a bias against your website where none exists.

 Anyway, that all said, I respect your decision. Just to be clear, would you confirm that you wish me to remove your status as an affiliate reviewer because, as yet, I've had no such request from you?


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## Ghostwind (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks for insight on how things work Morrus. That does clear it up for me. Go ahead and leave the affliliate status active for now. I'll let you know if I make a decision to have it taken down.


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## Morrus (Dec 9, 2004)

Well, that would require you to continue posting reviews, Steve - affiliate status means you gotta be an affiliate.


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## Ghostwind (Dec 10, 2004)

Well, I just posted a small handful. By the way, can you have someone add FFG's Darkness & Dread and AEG's U.S. Militaries and World Militaries to the database sometime?


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## JoeBlank (Dec 11, 2004)

Hooray for respectable, well-mannered gentlemen who talk things through and resolve problems. Thank you Steve and Morrus. 

 I use the EN World reviews every single time I consider a purchase. I've read reviews on just about every FFG and Bastion Press product over the past couple of days, trying to keep myself from buying over $100 worth of $5 books. (I still might fail, those are some damn good sales.)

 Many of the ENW reviews are by "amateurs". I don't mean that in a negative way, those reviews are still often valuable. Any review I post is also amateur. I'm just a guy reading and saying what he thinks. Other reviewers follow a more professional set of guidelines, including many of the excellent reviews for ENW. I can say this from experience, as I have written a few reviews for Steve as well. The process he requires is time consuming, but it is the most thorough I can imagine. When I see a review on his site, or from his site, I know that the reviewer has spent the time to consider the product from every angle.

 When I read reviews on ENW I usually seek out the reviewers with which I am familiar, and in which I trust. d20 Magazine Rack is certainly in this group.

 Thanks again for continuing a valuable service to our community.


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## Psion (Dec 11, 2004)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> Well, I just posted a small handful. By the way, can you have someone add FFG's Darkness & Dread and AEG's U.S. Militaries and World Militaries to the database sometime?




Added. HTH.


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## BSF (Dec 14, 2004)

I just opened up the link and began reading.  I remember reading the first few posts in the thread and then moving on.  For that matter, I still don't see anything compelling in there to keep me reading until the end of the thread. 

Steve, as an EN World visitor, I am sorry you have felt excluded in any manner.  I can see where some of your grief might come from so whatever your long term decision is, I can respect that.


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