# Any One Want To Talk About Comicbooks?



## megamania (Apr 3, 2005)

I was starting to get out of comicbooks but with some of the stories going on in DC and Marvel I feel myself being reeled back in.

Anyone else feel this way?


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## Alzrius (Apr 3, 2005)

It's only a matter of time before the mods slide this over to Fantasy & Sci-Fi Books, Movies & TV...

That said, I sort of feel this way about Marvel (not DC though, I've never really liked them). I've been buying everything with Venom and Carnage for a while, but lately some of their other stuff has started to grab me. Namely, Astonishing X-Men has shown that Joss Whedon has yet to do anything disappointing that I've seen so far. Likewise, both the Runaways series and the Livewires miniseries are hooking me in much more than I thought they would. Viva Marvel!


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## megamania (Apr 3, 2005)

Ultimates are good, Ultimate Spider-man has been steady for over 70 issues.  New Avengers has me waiting impatiently each month and Squadron Supreme has me wondering where they are going.

Dc with their brain washing, the return of the original (sorta) Green Lantern and other stuff-  It's a good time to be a reader.

Hope we don't get moved.


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## Ranger REG (Apr 3, 2005)

Been a long while since I read comic books, but recently, I am enthralled by Dark Horse Comic series, _Samurai: Heaven and Earth._


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## Dark Jezter (Apr 3, 2005)

Lately I've really been enjoying the Punisher graphic novels by Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon.  I've already read the first two, and will probably be purchasing the other 3 soon.


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## the Jester (Apr 3, 2005)

I haven't bought comics regularly in about a decade, but I still read a lot of 'em. 

I have to agree with the Ultimate Universe line (Marvel)- very, very good.  

Also, I'm a big fan of Powers and the Authority.


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## Sir Osis of Liver (Apr 3, 2005)

heh, i gotta say i like this thread! Last time i gamed i got heckled for being a geek, due to my obsesive comic collecting.   Nothing like the pot calling the kettle black!  


Anyway, right now my i'm really loving Dark Horses Conan series. It has yet to be unimpressive.

On the superhero front, i'm totally hooked on new Avengers, anything Ultimate, and a lot of the X-men stuff. Wolverine, Cable/deadpool, and exiles deserve mention. Age of Apocolpse has been great and House of M looks to be really good. I would also second a vote for Runaways. I'm really enjoyiong the "second season" a lot (even tough it's only on issue 2.) Supreme power, amzing spider-man, Strange, Daredevil, Hulk(yay! peter david!),and thunderbolts are also very good.

Over at DC, they have some really great stuff brewing too, Identity crisis was cool, as well as Greeen Latern rebirth. Countdown to the infiante crisis has me really pumped for whats coming down the pike. my favorite on goings over there are, Superman/batman, Teen titans, outsiders, Legion of superheroes, green arrow, and batman. Aquaman's been decent, as has the flash, birds of prey, batgirl, and robin.

I get damn near everything marvel publishes, and a lot of DC. :\


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## megamania (Apr 3, 2005)

My budget won't allow me to get more than about six titles a month now (at 3 dollars apiece who can!)

Last night when I got off from EN World I was thinking about the comicbooks and DnD.  In Strikeforce: Morituri I have a near direct copy of Captain America (Roger Stevens aka the Captain) leading a group that includes Jean StormWeilder (Storm) and my namesake Megamania along with traditional DnD type characters.

An Eberron story I scratched at the last moment, I had a character known as the Silver Crimson.  He was a Batman / Daredevil type with fighter and Psychic Warrior powers.

Then...then I remembered my Adventurers DnD game I set up for a con a few years ago.  Using Hero Clix, I created the Adventurers (Avengers) using a straight forward DnD world.  It was neat coming up with the concepts and how to make their powers work.  The Adventurers went from 14th level to 22nd level (Black Widow to Thor) and includes classes or fighter, barabarian, rogue, Sorcerer, psion, Psychic warrior and others.

Perhaps it is time to upgrade to 3.5 and relaunch it....?


Ah the memories.


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## megamania (Apr 3, 2005)

DnD pays homage to Comicbooks-

A 25th level fighter / psychic warrior with grafted wrist razors is attacked by a psion.  His memories are altered and now he has an alignment of CG to CE.  Said group then unleash him into the world of the harpers or other do goodies to destroy.  Your Epic Level party must stop him, take him alive and return him to being himself.  On the way uncover a grand plot to brainwash other powerful adventurers to join the bad guys.

After a powerful cleric of chance becomes mad, an organization of epic level heroes are attacked and forced into breaking up as they can not decide how to handle the situation.  From this group, the leaders form a new team.

Sooooo many possibilities.....


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## Acquana (Apr 3, 2005)

I wish, wish, wish, wish, wish I had enough money to buy books regularly.  ;__;   Right now I simply have to wait until I have some money and buy trades.  Right now I'm chomping at the bit to get the newest ElfQuest book.  And I think a new Strangers in Paradise came out ...


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## Plane Sailing (Apr 3, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> It's only a matter of time before the mods slide this over to Fantasy & Sci-Fi Books, Movies & TV...




Well, what do you know?

Whoosh!


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## MadMaxim (Apr 3, 2005)

Well, considering that we're about half a year behind the US releases (they're getting translated into Danish), I admit that I've always been hooked on both Spider-Man, X-Men, Hulk, Daredevil and Fantastic Four. There's just something about superheroes, and it really makes me want to run a Mutants & Masterminds campaign!


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## thatdarncat (Apr 5, 2005)

my pull list is massive  fortunately it's split between myself and a few friends, so it's manageable. I'm reading mostly DC - the majority of the mainstream books and the team books. Infinite crisis looks like it's going to be fun 

Fables has never done me wrong, nor has Planetary (schedule aside). Marvel... I read Squadron Supreme and a few other books (astonishing xmen)


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## Felon (Apr 6, 2005)

Comics have been the best they've ever been for most of this decade, and the latter part of the nineties. Writers like Geof Johns, Mark Waid, and Kurt Buissek have done a great job at figuring what elements makes a classic character appealing and bringing it to the forefront. We saw guys like Hawkman and Green Arrow brought back better than ever, and the JLA and Avengers were both reborn to be exactly what fans expect them to be: the dream team of superheroes. 

Having said that, 2005 is shaping up to be a pretty big disappointment.

I picked up _Countdown to Infinite Crisis_ this weekend (80 pages for only a buck), and really hated it. If you haven't read it, I don't intend to spoil anything, but it does hearken back to the popular trend of the early nineties wherein the creative teams attempt to revitalize interest in a classic character by mangling it, corrupting it, raping it, having it turn evil, and maybe killing it when they're done so that they bring in some hip little snot-nosed kid in its place to say "hey, I ain't your daddy's hero". 

Recently, we got to see Sue Dibny (Elongated Man's wife) raped and murdered in the pages of _Identity Crisis_, and we got to find out that the Justice League were a bunch of machiavellan brainwashers. Over in Marvel, we are being treated to the godawful "Avengers Disassembled" storyline. Issue #500 had Avengers showing up on the doorsteps of Avengers' mansion, blowing it up, and killing themselves and taking other characters with them. 

I don't know what these guys are thinking. Didn't they learn from the mistakes of a decade ago? Haven't they figured out by now that trying to increase readership by trashing your characters doesn't work? It doesn't bring in lots of new readers (it's not like the Avengers have never had a dramatic breakup before) rather it just pisses a lot of fans off. Most see it for what it is: a cheap trick that is a cop-out for just writing good, solid stories.


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## Villano (Apr 6, 2005)

I only collect a few comics anymore.  Currently, it's:

Green Arrow
Catwoman
JSA
Incredible Hulk
Conan
She-Hulk
Essential Tomb of Dracula

Occasionally, I might pick up the odd Essentials TPB (Punisher and Monster of Frankenstein are the most recent).

I considered picking up the new Legion Of Superheroes series, but changed my mind when I heard that they rebooted it.  How many times has it been?  Original, adult, clones, post-Zero Hour, and now again.  Did I miss any?  Why bother investing in a title if it's just going to be wiped clean in a couple of years?

Speaking of reboots, I wanted to pick up Doom Patrol until I heard they did it here, too.  I shouldn't be surprised at that considering John Byrne is doing it (has he ever met continuity he liked?).


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## Felon (Apr 6, 2005)

Villano said:
			
		

> I only collect a few comics anymore.  Currently, it's:
> Essential Tomb of Dracula




Pretty damn good series revisited there! Wonder what Marv Wolfman's up to these days?



> I considered picking up the new Legion Of Superheroes series, but changed my mind when I heard that they rebooted it.  How many times has it been?  Original, adult, clones, post-Zero Hour, and now again.  Did I miss any?  Why bother investing in a title if it's just going to be wiped clean in a couple of years?




Yes, that series has been lost for a while. Funny thing is, Keith Giffen was one of the guys who brought it to its height of popularity, and he singlehandedly ruined it. The series never recovered from what he did to it back in, what was it, 1988?



> Speaking of reboots, I wanted to pick up Doom Patrol until I heard they did it here, too.  I shouldn't be surprised at that considering John Byrne is doing it (has he ever met continuity he liked?).




Lets see, how far back does Byrne's inability to work within an established continuity go? He did that _Generations_ series for DC, and _The Lost Generation_ for Marvel, and _X-Men: The Lost Years_ before that, and there have been a few one-shots like _Captain American & Batman_. His ego is really over the rainbow now isn't it? It's a real pity. His work on Fantastic Four and X-Men is what got me into comics. Then I attended a panel at DragonCon where he was a speaker, and I couldn't believe what a total a-hole he was.


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## Chaldfont (Apr 6, 2005)

I recently got back into comics, but in a very cheap way. My local library has an awesome collection of graphic novels. Its hit or miss, but when it's free how can I complain? Here are some greats that I have read recently:

Top Ten
The Goon
Hellboy
The Red Star
Ultimate Spiderman
Barry Ween Boy Genius
Concrete
The Sandman (actually, I had read most of them previously, but I was able to fill in some gaps)
The Watchmen
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

After seeing Sin City, I'll need to put some holds on those too.


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## Villano (Apr 6, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Lets see, how far back does Byrne's inability to work within an established continuity go? He did that _Generations_ series for DC, and _The Lost Generation_ for Marvel, and _X-Men: The Lost Years_ before that, and there have been a few one-shots like _Captain American & Batman_. His ego is really over the rainbow now isn't it? It's a real pity. His work on Fantastic Four and X-Men is what got me into comics. Then I attended a panel at DragonCon where he was a speaker, and I couldn't believe what a total a-hole he was.




You forgot about the magical, time traveling Paradise Island and World War 2 Wonder Woman.  And didn't he tweak Spider-Man's origin?

And, yeah, I've heard about Byrne.  It's seems like other comic pros don't hesitate to slam him (one told me that he brings a "throne" to Cons so that he can "look down on his fans").  Another made a comment about how there's a reason why Byrne has so much unpublished work, he burns every bridge he crosses.  He has the entire first issue finished (written, drawn, inked, and colored) of a horror-comedy series called (working title) You Go, Ghoul!, yet no one wants to publish it.   

Of course, what can you say about a guy who says he doesn't want Jessica Alba as Sue Storm because, "Hispanic and Latino women with blonde hair look like hookers to me, no matter how 'clean' or 'cute' they are."?


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## DarkOra (Apr 6, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Wonder what Marv Wolfman's up to these days?



His novel, Crisis on Infinite Earths, should be hitting the stores on the 19th.  He's also working on a Simpson's Treehouse of Horror story with Gene Colan, and he has some other project that he can't talk about yet.


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## Klaus (Apr 6, 2005)

Re: Identity Crisis and Zatanna brainwashing Dr. Light.

It makes no sense to create such a ruckus about that, since the JLA mindwiped the ENTIRE white martian race a few years back, the Guardians of Oa put mind blocks against fire on ALL martians, and even in the animated DCU there have been several episodes of villains being incarcerated in virtual reality/illusions.

The other mind-wipe would be completely void then.

And I just realizard that Judd Winnick is a bad writer. In the most recent issue of Batman, he revealed who is the new Red Hood. He said he has no interest in explaining how that person became the Red Hood, just how Batman will react. If someone else wants to explain, he's all for it.

I mean, c'mon! He's paid for this!!!


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## diaglo (Apr 6, 2005)

the Jester said:
			
		

> I haven't bought comics regularly in about a decade, but I still read a lot of 'em.





i haven't bought comics regularly since the 70's.

although, i was hanging out in a comic store on a regular basis for my Rpg fix.


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## Cannibal_Kender (Apr 6, 2005)

Currently I read:

Runaways
Astonishing X-Men
New Avengers
Young Avengers


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 6, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> I picked up _Countdown to Infinite Crisis_ this weekend (80 pages for only a buck), and really hated it.




Really?  I rather loved it...  Last few pages really made it the story.  (At least for me.)



			
				Felon said:
			
		

> I don't know what these guys are thinking. Didn't they learn from the mistakes of a decade ago?




I have to agree with you in regard to Marvel, they seem so clueless and they have little respect for their own characters that it’s a little disheartening...  Their fix for everything is a new creative team (no problem their) and a new issue number 1!!!!!  

As for DC and the whole Sue Dibny thing...  I rather enjoyed that tale also but I can see where it would bother people but I think DC is on the right track for a great year.


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## Rackhir (Apr 6, 2005)

I stopped reading superhero comics, because I realized that ultimately, nothing was permanent. No villian could stay dead, no change to heroes wouldn't be reversed. Things would change, but  in the end it wouldn't matter because everything would simply get changed again. When you have had the same characters being in stories for 30-60 years, there is only so much back story you can keep. The Hulk has gone from being a big green stupid monster, to a grey intelligent, but weaker, to being green again, but with Banner's mind, to a mindless rampaging monster etc... Jean Grey became Phoenix, turned evil, turned good, turned evil, killed herself, had duplicates show up who were unrelated, who became related, who became clones, then it was revealed that she was never phoenix it was a separate entity that thought it was her etc... 

Is there anything going on in comics today that would change my mind about this? I've basically only been collecting manga translations and finite series as a result of this problem.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 6, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> Is there anything going on in comics today that would change my mind about this? I've basically only been collecting manga translations and finite series as a result of this problem.




I would say no in superhero ongoing comics…  Especially from DC and Marvel cause people really like those heroes who have been around in some cases almost over 70 years now. (Superman is 3 years away from that mark.) 

Though I would say some of your more G&G superhero comics like the Authority might have what your "looking for" but even then I doubt it.


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## Benben (Apr 6, 2005)

Cannibal_Kender said:
			
		

> Currently I read:
> Runaways




I just discovered Runaways, and I've been kicking myself for not supporting since day 1.  

My pull list:
Y the last man.
Seven Soldiers: Whole series as long as Grant Morrison is writing.
Planetary
Astonishing X-Men
Teen Titans (but this is getting droped soon if it doesn't improve)

Manga:
Naruto
Hikaru no Go
Iron Wok Jan

My only complaint about the Manga is the release schedule.   Iron Wok Jan in particular has a release schedule approaching Planetary's lateness.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Apr 6, 2005)

I quit buying comics when they passed the 2 dollar mark.  I have a friend who still rabidly buys them, and honestly, he has so completely turned me off comics I don't care if I ever read one again.  He feels it necessary to tell me EVERYTHING about the stories in his weekly acquisitions, and will work himself up so much talking about them he giggles and wrings his hands like some mad scientist in a bad movie.  Eric's grandma won't let me say what I told him the last time he started in, but I think he finally got the message.  I mean, he's 35 years old and has never been on a date, has a degree in journalism and works part time in a movie rental store, and lives for Wednesdays, when the comics arrive at the local outlet.  

Sorry...that turned into a rant...  I actually used to love comics, my favorites being Batman, Green Lantern, and the Legion of Super Heroes.  But now...not so much.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 6, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> I mean, he's 35 years old and has never been on a date, has a degree in journalism and works part time in a movie rental store, and lives for Wednesdays, when the comics arrive at the local outlet.




Nothing wrong with looking forward to Wednesdays, or is it wrong to look forward to Fridays when most new movies come out?  Is bad to be looking forward to May 19th? 

Also don't judge us all, or the industry; by you single friend’s excitement, lack of a career path or interest in love. 

I mean your posting on a message board for RPGs.  Surly stereotypes bother you.


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## Cannibal_Kender (Apr 6, 2005)

Benben said:
			
		

> I just discovered Runaways, and I've been kicking myself for not supporting since day 1.




I started reading Runaways issue 4 first run, and from then on I was hooked. The characters, the dialogue, the stories: just great! 

If you like this one, give Young Avengers a try. It's got the same kind of vibe.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Apr 6, 2005)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I mean your posting on a message board for RPGs.  Surly stereotypes bother you.




LOL....This guy could never be called surly.  EVER.

I'm a surly stereotype in my own right, but I don't follow my friends around as they walk at a distance of 18 inches or less giggling and clapping my hands over panel 3, page 7 of the latest Legion of Super Heroes issue (this example came from my friend's visit this past Sunday). I finally turned to him and said, "Unless you're planning on wiping my a$$, you might want to wait outside the bathroom."  True story.  And that's not even the worst thing I said. 

I freely admit people have their passions.  I know I do.  But when I realize that no one else gives a tinker's dam about them, I stop waving the flag and keep to myself.


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## Felon (Apr 6, 2005)

QUOTE=Villano]You forgot about the magical, time traveling Paradise Island and World War 2 Wonder Woman.  And didn't he tweak Spider-Man's origin?[/quote]

I recall picking up an issue where there was some VR-induced delusion that Flash Thompson and Spidey were partners. 



> Of course, what can you say about a guy who says he doesn't want Jessica Alba as Sue Storm because, "Hispanic and Latino women with blonde hair look like hookers to me, no matter how 'clean' or 'cute' they are."?




I wonder if Byrne still has his "faithful fifty"? He used to pride himself on having a fan base of fifty thousand that would follow any title he wrote. Probably not a lot of bleached-blonde Hispanic women there....



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I have to agree with you in regard to Marvel, they seem so clueless and they have little respect for their own characters that it’s a little disheartening...  Their fix for everything is a new creative team (no problem their) and a new issue number 1!!!!!




Yep. Completely brainless move on their part. 



> As for DC and the whole Sue Dibny thing...  I rather enjoyed that tale also but I can see where it would bother people but I think DC is on the right track for a great year.




Well, I have high hopes for Green Lantern, and will check out Villains United. Anyone know anything about Infinite Crisis other than it's (yet another) sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths?


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## Felon (Apr 6, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> I mean, he's 35 years old and has never been on a date, has a degree in journalism and works part time in a movie rental store, and lives for Wednesdays, when the comics arrive at the local outlet.




Sounds like you regard your friend as a bit of a loser. Has he decided this is what he wants from life? If so, he's ahead of the game. I know guys like this and I crack the occasional joke, but OTOH I also know the real losers are the guys who went out and got a boring 8-to-5 job, got shacked-up, and squirted out a few kids just because that's what guys are _supposed to_ have accomplished by 35. While they're spending their Saturdays running around taking care of honeydo's, guys like your friend (and me) are either sleeping late or sitting around with a bowl of cereal watching cartoons. 'Nuff said.

However, I do take your point about people are who are so insular that they don't pay any attention to the comfort levels of people around them. He does seem like he needs somebody to connect with. Wonder if he's heard of the Internet?


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## DungeonmasterCal (Apr 6, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Sounds like you regard your friend as a bit of a loser. Has he decided this is what he wants from life?




No, it's not what he wants.  But he so totally won't do anything about it.  He used to be a newspaper reporter.  In fact, he won several awards for his reporting.  When he was fired (and to this day we don't really know why) he spent the next 2 1/2 years not even looking for a job, letting his mom support him.  Finally, a friend who managed a video store gave him a "mercy job".  He applies for jobs all the time, but has yet to get a better one.  

Regarding his dating life, he has on more than one occasion made comments about wanting to settle down and get married.  But every time he's introduced to a woman, after 20 minutes of his giggling and hand wringing over J. Michael Strazynski's (sp?) latest underwear change, they practically run screaming away.  

He's not really shy, nor is he physically repulsive (by most of western culture's standards..y'know..bathing, etc.) I dunno...it's hard to explain.  He's just so wrapped up in his own private Idaho that stepping outside that zone is incomprehensible to him.  Heck, he maybe obssessive-compulsive about some things.  He's always wanting something better than his current situation, but if we try to help him out by suggesting things he might do, it's like he never even hears it.  If he doesn't think of it himself, it doesn't happen.  And he doesn't think of it himself.

And yup, he's heard of the internet.  That's how he keeps us in the  know about Strazynski's cats; whether we care or not.

I actually like the guy a lot, and wish he'd step out and see what else the world has to offer.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 6, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Well, I have high hopes for Green Lantern, and will check out Villains United. Anyone know anything about Infinite Crisis other than it's (yet another) sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths?




Only that they have some very great talented people behind it...   Johns is great, I've followed Rucka since his run on detective, Gail Simons is also one of my favorites and my wife reads her work on Birds of Prey. (As do I, though we’re both behind a few issues now.)

It looks really good.  

Marvel on the other hand their "House of M" seems like a complete waste of space...  I'm skipping it.


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## Felon (Apr 6, 2005)

Oh, then he's in a hell of his own making. That's different.

So, who is this J. Michael whatever guy? What book does he do?


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## JoeGKushner (Apr 6, 2005)

Manga is the way I go these days. Berserk, Dragonball Z (I'm weak I admit it), Chronicles of the Cursed Sword, Ragnarok, Dragon Arms, and a few others.

For comics, tpb is the way to go. I've read Y, Preacher, and a ton of others. Most of 'em have convinced me that it's better that they stay on the shelves but I still do buy some, usually non-comic book based like Star Wars (Crimson Empire, Dark Empire, etc...) and others are okay (Supergirl's return to the DC setting when last I checked we already had a Supergirl for example....)


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## Felon (Apr 6, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> Is there anything going on in comics today that would change my mind about this? I've basically only been collecting manga translations and finite series as a result of this problem.




Well, there is the aforementioned "ultimate" line of comics, which re-invents Marvel characters from square one. No backstory baggage there.

Be warned though, the "ultimate" version of the Avengers is called simply "The Ultimates" and I found it to be a very low payoff for two-bucks-and-change considering that the writer Marc Millar's big vision was "what if we formed a dream-team superhero group and then they had nobody to fight, except maybe each other?". 

That's the big hurdle comics need to overcome IMO. They need to inject a healthy dose of action into the stories. Don't they get it? It's fun watching two characters pit their superpowers against each other. I'm probably the only guy who doesn't like seeing Grant Morrison write books for powerhouses like the JLA and X-Men, because he almost always does an end run around the action scenes. Either the fight starts and he cuts away to another scene and we don't see the combatants until one is laid out, or--his usual preferrence--there is no fight at all because a character "cheats", pulling some trick that prematurely drops the would-be sparring partner in his tracks (his favorite chestnut is having telepaths shut down people's brains). 

Morrison fans love the cheating scenes, but it's like I said in another thread, no matter how much you love a magician's act, performing the same trick over and over wears the illusion thin.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Apr 6, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Oh, then he's in a hell of his own making. That's different.
> 
> So, who is this J. Michael whatever guy? What book does he do?




He's probably best known as a writer for Babylon 5.  I think he's writing (or has recently written) Spiderman and some other Marvel titles.  

I just happen to have a link my friend sent me earlier.  Enjoy.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0833089/


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## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 6, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> He's probably best known as a writer for Babylon 5.  I think he's writing (or has recently written) Spiderman and some other Marvel titles.




He does write Amazing Spiderman, Supreme Powers, and he will be writing Fantastic Four.  I would say Straczynski is better know for his Joe Comics imprint through Top Cow/Image with his biggest/best creation called "Rising Stars" and is probably one of the best stories I have ever read…  and I don’t mean in just comics.   

If you haven’t read it, do, and be happy you’re not waiting 4 months in between issues.


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## jasamcarl (Apr 7, 2005)

I dropped out of comics way back in the early 90s, but decided to go retro last year and on the basis of some online reviews ordered a few trades of Morrison's New X-Men. I dropped out after getting through them and the first of Whedon's Astonishing run, but I can say that the 'core' X-Men titles are better than they have been since atleast the early 80s, and probably quite a bit better than the overwhelming majority of Claremont's stuff. 

Some fanboys apparently didn't like New X-Men because of its disregard for continuity and the sudden shift in tone. I see both of those as advantages. Doing so allowed him to write tight but subversive superhero stories that focused on the core themes of the X-men, which should always be more important than the mostly lame history of the characters themselves.

Astonishing is more basic, but better written than anything in my memory. It's not as interesting as Morrison, but both the art and pacing are more consistent, though i'm only going on six issues. Think X-Men meets first three seasons of Buffy and you have a good idea of the tone. There is some background social commentary, but it is mostly perky dialogue and intentionally gratuitous action sequences that are there just because this is a superhero comic. The fact that Whedon knows they are gratuitous makes them more fun than annoying. The art is fantastic; 'realistic' but perfectly suitable to kinetic, cartoonish action. For the first time, you can see why characters in the book as oppossed to weird fanboys would find Kitty Pryde attractive.

The other X titles I hear are aweful, and Claremont is apparently up to his old, dumb tricks in his books. The guy defined my idea of the X-Men (now with a bit of Morrison's tweaking), but now he is just tired.


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## Rackhir (Apr 7, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Well, there is the aforementioned "ultimate" line of comics, which re-invents Marvel characters from square one. No backstory baggage there.
> 
> Be warned though, the "ultimate" version of the Avengers is called simply "The Ultimates" and I found it to be a very low payoff for two-bucks-and-change considering that the writer Marc Millar's big vision was "what if we formed a dream-team superhero group and then they had nobody to fight, except maybe each other?".




I've read a few issues of the Ultimates, since the Avengers were my favorite super team back in the day. However, the Ultimates strkes me more as a "Hey that Authority comic was sucessful. Let's do one just like it." that and trying to make all of the characters as unlikable as possible.


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## Mallus (Apr 7, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> However, the Ultimates strkes me more as a "Hey that Authority comic was sucessful. Let's do one just like it." that and trying to make all of the characters as unlikable as possible.



The Authority were unlikable?


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## Rackhir (Apr 7, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> The Authority were unlikable?



 Well, they weren't exactly a bunch of care bears, but no. The unlikeable comment was about the Ultimates. Cap's a jingoistic "USA is always right" instead of personifying the Ideals of the US, Banner is a sniveling pathetic looser and the Hulk is a simply a murderous brute, who Banner deliberately looses because his *censored* isn't big enough for Betty etc... There's just a nasty and cruel edge to things in the Comic, especially in the interactions between the characters. The Authority had no qualms about being brutal if necessary or facing such an adversary, but weren't bullies about it.


----------



## Felon (Apr 7, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> The Authority were unlikable?




It can certainly be argued that the Authority's casual attitude towards massive body counts and brutally torturing their foes in for kicks is repulsive. The book is about nothing if not extremism, which tends to really polarize readers. I confess that I own the first four Authority trade paperbacks. I was as titillated as anyone by the way every issue had the feel of a $200 million-dollar Hollywood blockbuster, but eventually I grew tired of Warren Ellis, who openly professes that he _hates_ superheroes, thinks their fans are retards, and spits on the evil United States government at every opportunity.



			
				Rackhir said:
			
		

> Well, they weren't exactly a bunch of care bears, but no. The unlikeable comment was about the Ultimates. Cap's a jingoistic "USA is always right" instead of personifying the Ideals of the US, Banner is a sniveling pathetic looser and the Hulk is a simply a murderous brute, who Banner deliberately looses because his *censored* isn't big enough for Betty etc... There's just a nasty and cruel edge to things in the Comic, especially in the interactions between the characters. The Authority had no qualms about being brutal if necessary or facing such an adversary, but weren't bullies about it.




You hit the nail on the head. Millar took a very mean-spirited approach to the characters. The ultimate line of comics is intended to be more mature and pull fewer punches than traditional Marvel comices, but he goes beyond what would make the Avengers refreshing and bold and turns into something ugly and garish. The Ultimate Hulk probably _should_ actually kill people in the course of its destructive rampages, but having it actually eat people like an ogre is a turn-off. Portraying Ultimate Cap as less of a liberal, avuncular dudley-do-right and more of a kick-ass man of action would work, but making him into some kind of jack-booted thug is not in the spirit of the character at all. Let's not even get into Hank Pym's misogyny and the Wasp's insectoid menstrual cycle. Really, is there anyone in the team who isn't a pig?

And on top of that, nothing much happens in the book. Granted, I don't follow it anymore, but I gave it a couple of years. Do they even have any enemies yet?

Guess I must be out of touch though. Ellis and Millar's books sell well, after all.


----------



## Welverin (Apr 8, 2005)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> He does write Amazing Spiderman, Supreme Powers, and he will be writing Fantastic Four.  I would say Straczynski is better know for his Joe Comics imprint through Top Cow/Image with his biggest/best creation called "Rising Stars" and is probably one of the best stories I have ever read…  and I don’t mean in just comics.




I prefer Midnight Nation, it's a more compact story (and a complete), that turned out better. Though I believe part of my problem with Rising Stars is the long delay, which killed my interest, additionally the art has never appealed to me. Once the last issue comes out I'll have to read it from the beginning and see how it stands up in completed form.


----------



## Mallus (Apr 8, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> It can certainly be argued that the Authority's casual attitude towards massive body counts and brutally torturing their foes in for kicks is repulsive.



I recall that the truly repulsive behavior was relagated to the bad guys; like when the parody-Avengers tried to kill (kidnap?) Jenny Quantum, and the not-Iron Man blasts a maternity ward with his repulsor-rays while remarking 'I always wanted to try these out on live babies' (that was the start of Millar's run, post-Ellis, right).

I think mainstream comics are plenty violent, brutal, and casual about it. Books like the Authority just invert the normal sugarcoating into, um, an acidcoating, glorying in the superhuman violence and its lethal consequences. (But I can see how that can wear thin for a lot of readers).

I find the Authority's violence refreshingly honest. It gets to the heart of the revenge fantasy/power fantasy that underlies most comic stories. Plus, I like seeing things like a good flying man fly through a bad giant man's skull.



> but eventually I grew tired of Warren Ellis, who openly professes that he _hates_ superheroes



I don't believe that for a second...



> thinks their fans are retards



He could think his fans were zombies or the Queen of England for all I care, just as long as he writes interesting comics.



> and spits on the evil United States government at every opportunity.



I don't see that in his work (I get the sense he thinks all governments are tyrannies), but I'm probably closer to his political views than you...


----------



## WayneLigon (Apr 8, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> ... Rising Stars ... Once the last issue comes out I'll have to read it from the beginning and see how it stands up in completed form.




As I understand, the 'long delay' was that something happened like what happened with Crusade: Top Cow poked JMS where he didn't wanna be poked so he suspended work on the series until the various business issues were resolved.

It's been out for a few weeks. An interesting ending, all told. A very positive one, which surprised me a little.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 8, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> I prefer Midnight Nation, it's a more compact story (and a complete), that turned out better. Though I believe part of my problem with Rising Stars is the long delay, which killed my interest, additionally the art has never appealed to me.




Yeah midnight nation is good, and while I love the artwork in it I don't think the art was that big of an issue with Rising Star...  I think that the fact that the artists used were never consistent was.  (Of course all issues were minor compared to the delay in getting it done.)



			
				Welverin said:
			
		

> Once the last issue comes out I'll have to read it from the beginning and see how it stands up in completed form.




Anyhow Rising Stars has been finished for a month or so...  I think the ending lived up to the hype.  Which to be honest was a shock but also wasn’t…  Straczynski always knows how he will end the story…  He doesn’t deviate from it either.


----------



## Kage Tenjin (Apr 8, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> I was as titillated as anyone by the way every issue had the feel of a $200 million-dollar Hollywood blockbuster, but eventually I grew tired of Warren Ellis, who openly professes that he _hates_ superheroes, thinks their fans are retards, and spits on the evil United States government at every opportunity.




Didn't know that about Ellis, but I suppose it makes some sense.  I really liked his Transmetropolitan series, and the potshot he takes at superman in there was very good.




			
				Felon said:
			
		

> You hit the nail on the head. Millar took a very mean-spirited approach to the characters. The ultimate line of comics is intended to be more mature and pull fewer punches than traditional Marvel comices, but he goes beyond what would make the Avengers refreshing and bold and turns into something ugly and garish. The Ultimate Hulk probably _should_ actually kill people in the course of its destructive rampages, but having it actually eat people like an ogre is a turn-off. Portraying Ultimate Cap as less of a liberal, avuncular dudley-do-right and more of a kick-ass man of action would work, but making him into some kind of jack-booted thug is not in the spirit of the character at all. Let's not even get into Hank Pym's misogyny and the Wasp's insectoid menstrual cycle. Really, is there anyone in the team who isn't a pig?




Thor, though he's not really on the team.  Iron Man seems to be a good enough character, but yeah, he's got an obvious flaw.  Fury actually seems like a decent guy, as does Hawkeye.  I guess Millar's fond of making it so that there are no perfect heros, and there are people who might want that.



			
				Felon said:
			
		

> And on top of that, nothing much happens in the book. Granted, I don't follow it anymore, but I gave it a couple of years. Do they even have any enemies yet?
> 
> Guess I must be out of touch though. Ellis and Millar's books sell well, after all.




The story kinda broke off there for a little while, but recently started up again.  I agree with the problem of nothing much happening, but I think that's probably a flaw in the format, it's one of those books that tend to read better as graphic novels.

I suppose it's just a matter of taste.  Some people want some more complexity in their stories.

My personal grab bag:
Ultimate Galactus
The Ultimates
The Witching
Fables (Trade only)
Lucifer (Trade only)


----------



## Felon (Apr 9, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> I recall that the truly repulsive behavior was relagated to the bad guys




Well, that is part of the trick. The Authority is a tight-knit family of cold-blooded, homocidal idealists, and the people they fight are just that much worse. If you buy into moral relativism, the Authority are a great bunch of guys.

But, when Midnighter strips down a renegade doctor, hangs him up, pulverizes him, applies electrical shocks, etc, the fact that he enjoys it makes him a bit of a pig, and that's not mitigated a great deal by the evilness of his victim.



> I don't believe that for a second...




Well, stop the presses: someone on the Internet has dismissed another person's remarks out-of-hand. He's got interviews posted on the web. He has a website, go read a few of his rants. He wears his disdain for the superhero genre on his sleeve and openly tells interviewers that he plans to get as far away from them as he can while still making a comfortable living.



> He could think his fans were zombies or the Queen of England for all I care, just as long as he writes interesting comics.




I certainly will agree that it is important to be able to separate the author from the work, which is why I still enjoy a lot of Byrne's stories and artwork. Many highly creative and talented people were horrible human beings. 



> I don't see that in his work (I get the sense he thinks all governments are tyrannies), but I'm probably closer to his political views than you...




Hmm. You've got serious blinders on if you don't think Ellis has a special place in his heart for the United States Government. He didn't kick down the president of France's door and toss him to his likely demise through a portal to Iraq. He didn't have Tony Blair kill off former members of Stormwatch for no particular reason.


----------



## Felon (Apr 9, 2005)

Kage Tenjin said:
			
		

> My personal grab bag:
> Ultimate Galactus




I've missed this title on the shelves. What's it all about?

As for Fables, I'm really glad to see Willingham have a successful book on his hands, and it's not a particularly violence-and-vulgarity-oriented book. Back in the eighties and early nineties, he was about as mean-spirited any of the guys we're discussing in this thread. Anyone else remember his famous "I am not your art n*gger" tirade? Or him sharing his fantasy of stumbling across the bodies of teenagers who committed mass-suicide and slipping copies of his comic into their lifeless hands? It looks like he's got most of it out of his system, and it's a big improvement.

Now if only we can now get Ellis to drop "wanker" from his vocabulary...


----------



## The Human Target (Apr 9, 2005)

This thread has made me both smile and cry. But its good comics are getting talked about!

My Monthlies ...

Hellblazer
Y the Last Man
Fables
100 Bullets
Daredevil
Runaways
Young Avengers
New Avengers
All the 7 Soldiers miniseries
Powers
The Human Target
Astonishing X-Men
Knights of the Dinner Table
The Walking Dead


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 9, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> but eventually I grew tired of Warren Ellis, who openly professes that he _hates_ superheroes,




Ellis doesn't hate superheroes, he hates the tired and cliched genre that superhero comics have largely been for the past several decades. He dislikes the overused conventions, the stranglehold the "big two" have on the industry, and other things about the genre. It's why his superhero comics are constantly (though not always successfully) doing something different, bucking the trends. It's an underlying theme in a lot of his superhero work (such as Planetary and the Authority). He has made comments that have been taken out of context (and some not, but that he didn't explain well) in regards to his feelings about superhero comics, but he's clarified them in many cases as well. He has been frustrated many times by the industry, and has claimed he is going to quit writing spandex books, but has changed his mind many times as well (as is anyone's right to do).


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 9, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> I've missed this title on the shelves. What's it all about?



It's a trilogy of miniseries by Warren Ellis about the coming of Ultimate Galactus.

The first series, Ultimate Nightmare, is already out in a trade and the first issue of the 
second one, Ultimate Secret, came out last week. The third one, that comes out next 
fall will be called Ultimate Extinction.

It's good so far, but definately better read in trades.


----------



## TwistedBishop (Apr 9, 2005)

The Human Target said:
			
		

> This thread has made me both smile and cry. But its good comics are getting talked about!
> 
> My Monthlies ...
> 
> ...





I'll second the Walking Dead love.  Great little comic that it seems most people gloss over.  I've always been a sucker for Zombie Apocalypse fiction (as I think most gamers are), and Kirkman is quite adept at writing it.

Y:tLM is a title I've kept hearing about without really trying.  Good concept, but every time I go to buy it I think of the line "he's the last surviving man in the world, _*along with his pet monkey*_" and it just kills my enthusiasm.


----------



## Welverin (Apr 9, 2005)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Yeah midnight nation is good, and while I love the artwork in it I don't think the art was that big of an issue with Rising Star...  I think that the fact that the artists used were never consistent was.  (Of course all issues were minor compared to the delay in getting it done.)




Not only were they inconsistent, I never liked any of them, with the possible exception of the first artist.



> Anyhow Rising Stars has been finished for a month or so...  I think the ending lived up to the hype.  Which to be honest was a shock but also wasn’t…  Straczynski always knows how he will end the story…  He doesn’t deviate from it either.




Just I just gave away the fact I haven't picked my books up in a while.

Good to know it ended well though, also a bit surprise that it ended positively, not what I'd exect from JMS, he tends to go negative from what I recall.



			
				Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> It's a trilogy of miniseries by Warren Ellis about the coming of Ultimate Galactus.




Arg! I didn't know that's what it was about, I need to be more careful when I'm reading behind on my reading.

At least I know I haven't missed a new series.


----------



## Staffan (Apr 9, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> Good to know it ended well though, also a bit surprise that it ended positively, not what I'd exect from JMS, he tends to go negative from what I recall.



Oh? The two JMS works with which I'm familiar, Babylon 5 and Jeremiah, both ended on a somewhat, but not undividedly, positive note.
Spoiler for B5 ending: 



Spoiler



We get a glimpse of Sheridan's last days, gathering his remaining friends one last time, before he first goes to visit Babylon 5 which is in the process of decommissioning, and then proceeding to Coriana 6, where the Shadow War ended. There, he meets Lorien again, who turns him into some sort of spiritual/energy thing, and takes him along beyond the Rim.


Spoiler for Jeremiah ending: 



Spoiler



"Daniel" being an invented being is revealed to Daniel's forces. Fighting stops, and there's a definite note of optimism about rebuilding in the air.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 10, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> Arg! I didn't know that's what it was about, I need to be more careful when I'm reading behind on my reading.



Well, it's not like they've been trying to keep it as a secret.


----------



## WayneLigon (Apr 10, 2005)

TwistedBishop said:
			
		

> I'll second the Walking Dead love.




I'll give it a third. It's a wonderful book.


----------



## WayneLigon (Apr 10, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> ... Back in the eighties and early nineties, he was about as mean-spirited any of the guys we're discussing in this thread. Anyone else remember his famous "I am not your art n*gger" tirade? Or him sharing his fantasy of stumbling across the bodies of teenagers who committed mass-suicide and slipping copies of his comic into their lifeless hands? ...




Oh, yes, _I_ still remember it. I think he's just learned to shut the hell up and draw since he has regular work from a company that will pay on time. Still he was, as I seem to recall, being screwed by Comico at the time so he might have been feeling more than a little put out when he said some of the things he said. I may have that wrong; that was quite some time ago. At least he's not as crazy as Dave Sim.

His _Day of Vengence_ series idea sounds good: a group of the tertiary magical characters get drunk and decide to go off The Spectre.


----------



## Sir Osis of Liver (Apr 10, 2005)

I'll trow in a fouth vote for Walking dead. Robert Kirkman is a really good writer that i think gets over looked a lot. I've been a fan of his since Battlepope. Ah, i'm gonna have to reread my trade of the first mini for that one...


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 10, 2005)

After being out of comics (for the second time) for a while I've started up on Ultimate Spidey, X-men (trades only) and Fantastic Four.  Good stuff on the whole.  I really never read any of the past X-titles so the Ultimates version is good enough for me.  Same for FF.  I know the stories in general but the specifics are lost to me.

Spidey is something that I am familiar with and have no problem reading the reboot especially considering the amount of monthlies he is in.

And I am a whore for Whedon so Astonishing X-men is a must.  Yeah, it refers to backstory that I have not read but I have enough comic-saavy buds to fill me in.

I have about 2 years of Planetary to catch up on but that was my favorite title from when I stopped (along with Daredevil).  My problem is that I hate the monthly format to death and want everything in tpb form so I save up titles and read them in bunches or just buy the tpb.

Does anyone think that DC could benefit from an "Ultimates" line?  I've never followed any of their properties all that closely.  Partially because there is too much history to catch up on (like the X-men).  I don't mind a modern retelling of classic stories as long as they are handled by good writers...


----------



## Klaus (Apr 10, 2005)

DC did an "Ultimates" line. In 1959. There were Ultimate Flash (not a science student, but a police forensics officer!), Ultimate Green Lantern (not a radio executive, but a test pilot), Ultimate Hawkman (not a reincarnated archaeologist, but a police officer from space), among others.

And DC did Ultimate Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in the mid-eighties. They're still around.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 10, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> DC did an "Ultimates" line. In 1959. There were Ultimate Flash (not a science student, but a police forensics officer!), Ultimate Green Lantern (not a radio executive, but a test pilot), Ultimate Hawkman (not a reincarnated archaeologist, but a police officer from space), among others.
> 
> And DC did Ultimate Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in the mid-eighties. They're still around.



Okay, when it comes to DC comics my geek-fu is not strong. Care to fill me in? My knowledge of DC characters is limited to movies, general conversation and a few TV shows...


----------



## Capellan (Apr 10, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> I stopped reading superhero comics, because I realized that ultimately, nothing was permanent.




Or as I put it when I stopped: "The better it is today, the more it will suck tomorrow."

I do buy TPBs from time to time.  Just picked up some Essential Spider-Man books, Runaways, and the Complete Bone.



			
				Villano said:
			
		

> Of course, what can you say about a guy who says he doesn't want Jessica Alba as Sue Storm because, "Hispanic and Latino women with blonde hair look like hookers to me, no matter how 'clean' or 'cute' they are."?




If nothing else, you can point out to him that a better reason for not wanting her is that she's a _bad actor_.


----------



## Sir Osis of Liver (Apr 10, 2005)

> Does anyone think that DC could benefit from an "Ultimates" line? I've never followed any of their properties all that closely. Partially because there is too much history to catch up on (like the X-men). I don't mind a modern retelling of classic stories as long as they are handled by good writers...




Yup, later this year DC will launch the All-stars line. Supposedly it's not and Ultimate marvel rip off, but it pretty much is.

First out is Batman&Robin, written by Frank Millar with art by Jim Lee. That i believe starts in June or July.

Then towards the later part of the year is Superman, Written by Grant Morrison, with Frank Quiteley(sp?) art.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 10, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Okay, when it comes to DC comics my geek-fu is not strong. Care to fill me in? My knowledge of DC characters is limited to movies, general conversation and a few TV shows...



All of DC's Golden Age superhero stuff got cancelled in the early 50s except for Supes, Bats
and WW. In 1959 then-editor Julius Schwartz decided to try to reintroduce the superhero
with new/rebooted modern versions of the old characters: Flash, Green Lantern etc. Flash 
was first to debute: Instead of scientist Jay Garrick in jeans and a hokey helmet we get CSI
guy Barry Allen in spiffy red spandex tights.

This is what started the Silver Age.

Anyway, DC already has an answer to the Ultimate titles coming out: The All-Star brand.
Continuity loose titles where All-Star talent can cut loose without having to worry about 
present continuity. Grant Morrison and Frank Quitley on All-Star Superman and Frank
Miller and Jim Lee on All-Star Batman.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 10, 2005)

RE:  DC All-Star books -

Sweet.  I had no idea.  I'll be picking those up.  Er, I'll be picking the tpb's up.


----------



## Kage Tenjin (Apr 11, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> Arg! I didn't know that's what it was about, I need to be more careful when I'm reading behind on my reading.
> 
> At least I know I haven't missed a new series.




Sorry if I mucked that one up.  I thought it might have been noticed that the trade collection was called Ultimate Galactus, which I kinda think spoils the suspense, considering you only find out in the last issue of the series, and the last page at that.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 11, 2005)

Kage Tenjin said:
			
		

> Sorry if I mucked that one up.




Yeah you might have mucked that one up but I think you helped everyone more than you harmed them...  (It seems like it was way below the radar of most.)


----------



## Damon Griffin (Apr 15, 2005)

*Countdown to Infinite Crisis (death toll)*



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Only that they have some very great talented people behind <Countdown to Infinite Crisis>.
> 
> It looks really good.





I've been pretty much out of touch with DC for some time now, reading JSA and not much else from DC.  I have to wonder how many characters are going to get killed by the time we're done with Identity Crisis, Countdown, Oman Project, etc.  Recent deaths or other casualties I'm aware of to date:

Firestorm (didn't see this happen, only saw a reference to it in Manhunter)
Sue Dibny
Jean Loring (criminally insane)
The Atom (went MIA because his ex is criminally insane)
Captain Cold
Tim Drake's dad
Blue Beetle

Did I miss anyone?


----------



## Klaus (Apr 16, 2005)

DC posted a recap of Identity Crisis/Countdown to Infinite Crisis, it's at www.newsarama.com .

You should add to your list:
Donna Troy (but she's cmong back)
Captain Atom (died in Superman/Batman)

But there's always the come-backs:



Spoiler



Ronnie Raymond (Firestorm) is now the unbodied mentor of current Firestorm
Jason Todd is the new Red Hood
Hal Jordan and Guy Gardner are back as GLs
Jean Loring will be the new Eclipso


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 16, 2005)

Captina Cold is dead? Again?

Captain Atom is already back, also. It happened off-panel. Anyway, he's immortal, 
so it doesn't really count. The real reason he came back so soon (but he was always
supposed to) is because of a continuity mishap. He showed up in the background of
Identity Crisis after being killed in that Superman/Batman arc a year earlier. 

Supposedly Rags Morales, IDC's penciller, didn't know Atom was dead and the editor
didn't catch it, or something. So someone came out sometime and said: "Hey, he came
back off panel. This is like the sixth time he dies, anyway, so who cares? He jumped
a week forward in time. We know he can't die because of Kyle Rayner's final GL arc
where it's revealed Major Force is immortal and he and Captain Atom have the same 
powers. Case closed. Stop pestering us with this! Enough with the emails already!"

Paraphrased, of course.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 16, 2005)

Damon Griffin said:
			
		

> Captain Cold




I think you mean Captain Boomerang- Cold's still alive and kicking in the pages of the Flash, where he's about to get involved in the Rogue War that's been brewing for some time now.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 16, 2005)

Ah, yes. I'm a little behind on my Flash reading, but I would've thought I'd heard of 
somone as big as Cold kickin' it.

As for Captain Boomerang, we already have a new one.


----------



## Klaus (Apr 16, 2005)

Yeah, the 



Spoiler



supposed son of Barry Allen and the Golden Glider (Cap Cold's sister)



I wonder why all the hubbub about mindwiping Dr. Light, when the JLA (Batman included) had no qualms to, say, mindwiping the *entire white martian race*!


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 17, 2005)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Yeah, the
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not sure if this needs to be spoilerized or not (ID Crisis has been over for some time now, and the new Captain Boomerang has been in the last several issues of Flash), but just in case... 



Spoiler



the new Boomer is thought to be the son of the original Boomerang and Golden Glider, not Barry Allen. AFAIK, the Barry Allen thing is just a fan supposition that has yet to be borne out by any writer. I certainly don't think that's where Johns is going with it. The old Boomerang dismissed the idea of his kid being Glider's son, so his parentage is still a mystery, but by all lights, he does seem to be Boomer's kid, mother unknown.


----------



## Damon Griffin (Apr 17, 2005)

*Countdown (death toll) updated*



			
				Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I think you mean Captain Boomerang- Cold's still alive and kicking in the pages of the Flash, where he's about to get involved in the Rogue War that's been brewing for some time now.




Yes, Boomergang.  My bad.  I'll be interested to find out who his son's mother really is, if it wasn't Golden Glider...Jessie Quick, maybe?  We'll find out eventually, I guess.

I hope Klaus was kidding about some of the combacks.  Jordan's return I was aware of, and so far I haven't been very happy with the Rebirth story, though I was outraged several years ago when DC turned one of my favorite characters (Jordan as GL) into a lunatic multiple murderer.

Anyway, Jean Loring as the new Eclipso, assuming it's for real, wouldn't count as a comebck for me -- she'd still be an Identity Crisis casualty, sacrificed by DC in the name of selling a few more books.  And Jason Todd as new new Red Hood?  I knew there WAS a new Red Hood, but wow, talk about completely pointless resurrections -- Jason Todd?


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 17, 2005)

The scene in which 



Spoiler



Jason Todd


 is revealed as the Red Hood was frickin' kewl, where he 



Spoiler



beats the Joker up with a crowbar


.


----------



## Silver Moon (Apr 17, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> The scene in which
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, but that was only the beginning.   Since he was trained by 



Spoiler



the world's greatest detective


 his next move was to break into the offices of 



Spoiler



Warner Brothers to obtain the telephone list from the 1985 reader's poll of everyone who called the 1-900 number to vote for his death.


  Those are the folks he really wants revenge against.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 17, 2005)

Haha. Flashbacks to Jay and Silent Bob.


----------



## WayneLigon (Apr 18, 2005)

Damon Griffin said:
			
		

> ... Recent deaths or other casualties I'm aware of to date:...Did I miss anyone?




Spoiler, Robin's one-time girlfriend and very temporary replacement, at the hands of Black Mask.
Blockbuster, perhaps, shot by Tarantula. Penguin had his corpse stuffed and mounted, but since when has that ever stopped anyone?


----------



## Mark Chance (Apr 18, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Recently, we got to see Sue Dibny (Elongated Man's wife) raped and murdered in the pages of _Identity Crisis_....




Just to clarify, she wasn't raped and murdered, as in her murderer was also her rapist. The rape took place years before her murder at the hands of a completely different individual.


----------



## Mistwell (Apr 18, 2005)

I collect only graphic novels and trade paper backs now (and have been doing so for about 6 years or so).  The quality of comics in that format has gone through the roof this decade.  Some really amazing stuff.  Box Office Poison, Blankets, Brian Michael Bendis's True Crime stuff, Queen and Country, the Complete Bone, and tons of other stuff...


----------



## JoeGKushner (Apr 18, 2005)

I was going to buy the Complete Bone and then see that they've gone and started to re-release it in color.

I'll wait for the Complete Bone in color now.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Apr 18, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> I find the Authority's violence refreshingly honest. It gets to the heart of the revenge fantasy/power fantasy that underlies most comic stories. Plus, I like seeing things like a good flying man fly through a bad giant man's skull.




I would agree with you but that level of violence is never returned to the Authority. Whenever they've been knocked down, they're never finished off. It's like they're fighting stupid people. "Well, they just killed one hundred of our best soldiers so let's split before they get really mad."

If you're going to go with the killing routine, go all the way and have the villains occassional wipe out a hero or two along the way.


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## Viking Bastard (Apr 18, 2005)

JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> I'll wait for the Complete Bone in color now.



Dunno. They already have. It's about four times more expensive. Anyway, I think it looks much better in B&W.


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