# Rise of Skywalker - Bold Predictions Thread



## OB1 (Dec 12, 2019)

We are just seven days away from the end of the Skywalker Saga!  It's hard for me to believe that this story that has been a part of my life since I was 2 years old is about to come to a close.  I've always enjoyed speculating on the next installment, and very rarely been right in my predictions (and could care less, the creative act of making them is more fun than being right), so with that said...

In this thread, make your boldest prediction about how it will all end!

My bold prediction:

*Emperor Palpatine will not physically return, but the Sith spirit of Darth Sideous will.*

We've been led to believe from the marketing that everyone's favorite Galactic Emperor has returned for the final episode.  This has been misdirection.  Instead, Kylo Ren will discover the Sith Spirit of Darth Sideous on the wreckage of the Death Star early in the film, and be possessed by it, thus becoming a Sith.

As we saw in Revenge of the Sith when Anakin was reborn Darth Vader, and as Obi-Wan counciled Luke, becoming a Sith is about more than just turning to the Dark Side.  It's about your old self being replaced by something completely evil.

Think of Palpatine (and the Sith in general) as a Litch, the Death Star as his Phylactry, but with the requirement that it needs a living host to choose to accept it in in order to become physical once an old body is destroyed.

Once inside Kylo, Sideous will direct him to the fleet that he had hidden away as a contingency plan should Anakin turn on him.  

Rey will have to confront Kylo/Sideous, of course, but she will do so with an important piece of knowledge.  That the only way to truly destroy a Sith Spirit is for the person who's body is possessed by it to return to the light while still possessed , during an act of sacrifice (as happened with Vader).  Thus, Kylo will be redeemed by Rey, but still die, taking Sideous out with him once and for all.

"You mean it controls your actions?"  Luke
"Partially, but it also obeys your commands," Obi-Wan

"When that happened, the good man who was your father, ceased to exist."  Obi-Wan


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## lowkey13 (Dec 12, 2019)

*Deleted by user*


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## ccs (Dec 12, 2019)

I'm thinking that OB1 has a better story idea than whatever we're all about to see.


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## Umbran (Dec 12, 2019)

ccs said:


> I'm thinking that OB1 has a better story idea than whatever we're all about to see.




Well, what he's talking about is not a new idea.  Sith spirits inhabiting objects until they can posses a body has been seen in the recent Darth Vader comic books.


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## Mallus (Dec 12, 2019)

lowkey13 said:


> I predict that people will complain, no matter what.
> 
> Oh, and lens flares.



You are correct, sir.


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## ccs (Dec 12, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Well, what he's talking about is not a new idea.  Sith spirits inhabiting objects until they can posses a body has been seen in the recent Darth Vader comic books.




I know that.  And it's not new in the Vader comics either. 
 I just doubt that's what we'll get.


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## Gradine (Dec 12, 2019)

I predict it will be a perfectly solid movie of the usual J.J. Abrams caliber but will still have all the loud angry detractors from the usual hives of scum and villainy.

I'm also still holding out for Darth Jar Jar


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## Zardnaar (Dec 12, 2019)

At best it will probably be an ok movie a'la Solo that feels a bit disjointed from the other two and they are basically where The Last Jedi ended so the trilogy is kinda pointless. 

At worst even the casuals are gonna go wtf huh?

Either way they'll be hitting you over the head with member berries of better movies going look at the pretty explosions. JJ doesn't really do original well.

 Probably feel disjointed and a bit rushed.


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## Theo R Cwithin (Dec 12, 2019)

"At last!" cries Rey triumphantly, as the last drops of blood vaporized off her lightsaber. "The remnant of my enemies, Sith and Jedi alike, lie smoldering at my feet! And so I claim this Crown, to rule eternally as Ultimate Empress of the Galax--"

Bob Newhart awakens with a start from a 42 year coma. When his astonished doctors rush in, he explains that he was trapped in the body of a silver, trash can-shaped robot in a weird space opera nightmare.


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## dragoner (Dec 12, 2019)

"_I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened._" ―Obi-Wan Kenobi, sensing the destruction of Alderaan 

Except you know, replace cried out in terror with _whining on the internet_, and of course not to be silenced either. Come save us Grand Moff Tarkin, you're our only hope!


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## Hriston (Dec 12, 2019)

Kylo discovers that Snokes was Siddious’s apprentice and finds out how to contact him, perhaps in incorporeal form, becoming his apprentice and fulfilling his dream of becoming Darth Kylo. With newfound power, he is triumphant over the Insurgency, nothing standing between him and ultimate power except to overthrow his new master, for which purpose he enlists the aid of Rae, and what ensues is pretty much a replay of the end of RotJ.


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## OB1 (Dec 12, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Well, what he's talking about is not a new idea.  Sith spirits inhabiting objects until they can posses a body has been seen in the recent Darth Vader comic books.



Is this really a thing?  Don't keep up with the comics (or books or cartoons) anymore.  Makes me feel even stronger that this may be the direction they are going in.

As a second possibility, I could see Sidious catching a ride with Kylo to a clone of Palpatine at the ice fortress, then throwing Kylo to the side once he gets there...


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## Zardnaar (Dec 12, 2019)

OB1 said:


> Is this really a thing?  Don't keep up with the comics (or books or cartoons) anymore.  Makes me feel even stronger that this may be the direction they are going in.
> 
> As a second possibility, I could see Sidious catching a ride with Kylo to a clone of Palpatine at the ice fortress, then throwing Kylo to the side once he gets there...




 Yeah the basic idea is in the new canon, but it dates back to 1994 or so and sith spirits around 1991. Exar Kun bound his spirit to a location, new cannon a helmet and tomb.

 Probably if Jedi can have force ghosts, Sith /Darksiders can be force spirits.


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## OB1 (Dec 12, 2019)

lowkey13 said:


> I predict that people will complain, no matter what.
> 
> Oh, and lens flares.



I said *bold *predictions!  People complaining about Star Wars sequels has been a thing since Empire!


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## lowkey13 (Dec 12, 2019)

*Deleted by user*


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## Beleriphon (Dec 12, 2019)

lowkey13 said:


> Oh! Okay.
> 
> Kylo REN will be revealed as the Sith Lord .... Darth Thirsty.




I thought it would be Darth Wheemo personally.


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## Gradine (Dec 12, 2019)

BEN SWOLO


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## Morrus (Dec 12, 2019)

The final trailer/clip is super spoilerific in a game changing way.









						Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker | Clip | Watch an exclusive clip from Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. See it in theaters December 20! | By Star Wars | Facebook
					

4.1M views, 18K likes, 7K loves, 5.8K comments, 19K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Star Wars: Watch an exclusive clip from Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. See it in theaters December 20!




					www.facebook.com


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## Anoth (Dec 12, 2019)

I just wanted to see Luke skywalker be as badass as he has been in the comics and books.  Boy was I let down. Those fight scenes were badass.


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## Morrus (Dec 12, 2019)

Anoth said:


> I just wanted to see Luke skywalker be as badass as he has been in the comics and books.  Boy was I let down. Those fight scenes were badass.



You've seen it, somehow?


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## Salthorae (Dec 12, 2019)

Morrus said:


> The final trailer/clip is super spoilerific in a game changing way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Exactly why I'm actively avoiding all trailers for this one...


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## Anoth (Dec 13, 2019)

Morrus said:


> You've seen it, somehow?



Previous movies. Really hoping for this last one. Fingers are crossed.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 13, 2019)

Kylo Ren will succumb to Sidius at first, but will turn against him, and he and Rey will stand together at the end. 

And if any ship is confirmed, it will be Rey and Fin.


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## Legatus Legionis (Dec 13, 2019)

.


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## Gladius Legis (Dec 13, 2019)

Every important plot scene and revelation will be a hamfisted apology for/retcon of everything The Last Jedi did.

And regardless of whether one loves/hates/something in between TLJ, it will come off as so incredibly insincere and forced that it'll be the movie that unites every Star Wars fan in sheer disgust.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 13, 2019)

Main problem will be execution. Love or hate it I think this trilogy will be a bit disjointed. 

We have TFA essentially a remake of ANH, TLJ doing it's own thing and whatever RoS is up to probably ending up where we were at the end of RoTJ.

 If they mess it up it will be member berry wine fueling pubbie tears.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 13, 2019)

LOL it will make literally no attempt whatsoever to “apologize” to the people who screeched endlessly online and harassed the people who made TLJ.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 13, 2019)

doctorbadwolf said:


> LOL it will make literally no attempt whatsoever to “apologize” to the people who screeched endlessly online and harassed the people who made TLJ.




Depends how much retcond they do. I don't think they will do to many maybe Rey's background.

 According to Rian Johnson they had no overall story arc. JJ wasn't the original plan.

 JJ made a bit if effort in TFA to weave in plot hooks for future movies. It seems he will have to make the most of what he can do. 

 Just based on the trailers it's why I think anything they do will feel rushed or the explaination is going to be weak. They have a lot to cover for example.

How did Palps survive?

Why has he been hiding for 30 years?

Where did he get his Uber fleet from?

Where did the resistance get their fleet from since they were crushed?

How well they introduced the two new characters?

Rey's background was Kylo lying?

 Kylo/Rey's relationship in a way that's not ham fisted. 

 More superweapons?

 Is the ending a rehash of RoTJ? 

Etc that's just a few basic ones. I suspect a lot if it is doesn't matter or just because?


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## Istbor (Dec 13, 2019)

lowkey13 said:


> I predict that people will complain, no matter what.
> 
> Oh, and lens flares.



In Space, no one can hear you lens flares...


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## Istbor (Dec 13, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> Depends how much retcond they do. I don't think they will do to many maybe Rey's background.
> 
> According to Rian Johnson they had no overall story arc. JJ wasn't the original plan.
> 
> ...




I mean... A ton of those are just Star Wars tropes at this point. 

Superweapons? Check
Secret vast fleets hiding in preperation? Check
Some bad/good person lying or omitting important facts? Check
People not actually dead when we all thought they were? Check

The most important question I want answered is this: If the movie does well and you like it Zard, will your spirit finally be at rest and can move on?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to say, I was already excited about the movie, and now after seeing that clip Morrus posted, I can't wait. I knew there was a reason I was keeping away from Star Wars stuff until next week. 

My bold claim.
With this newest information, I think... movie will tie things back together. With Palps having pulled on the strings from wherever he is hiding, forces will rise to stop him. Those allies of Leia's who didn't answer before still remember the tyranny of the old Emperor and finally heed the call to help. 

Some awesome space battles are had. Some cool lightsabers fights take place. Sprinkle in some interesting but perhaps expected or hoped for conversions happen. BAM! The force is finally at equilibrium with a couple of Grey Jedi.


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## Umbran (Dec 13, 2019)

OB1 said:


> Is this really a thing?  Don't keep up with the comics (or books or cartoons) anymore.  Makes me feel even stronger that this may be the direction they are going in.




Yep.  Lord Momin.  He was a Sith sculptor and architect.  He had this idea of trying to destroy a city, and freeze the people in it in time at the moment of their greatest terror.  That backfired, killing him, and leaving his consciousness in his mask.

Many years later, Vader is looking to construct his own castle on Mustafar, and Palpatine gives him the mask as a source of inspiration and information on how to make the castle... the most Sithy and Force-relevant he can.  Or so he says.

Vader tries to use Momin to build a gateway into the Force itself, to get his dead wife back.  That doesn't go well either.


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## OB1 (Dec 13, 2019)

Morrus said:


> The final trailer/clip is super spoilerific in a game changing way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This feels like it will be the opening scene of the film and I think ties in nicely with my prediction about what to expect from Palps in the episode



Anoth said:


> I just wanted to see Luke skywalker be as badass as he has been in the comics and books.  Boy was I let down. Those fight scenes were badass.




"A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."  Master Yoda

I'd say the end of TLJ was the perfect embodiment of this ideal, and Luke was totally badass in the way that a true Jedi Master would be.



Zardnaar said:


> How did Palps survive?



He didn't, but the spirit of Siddious did and has been waiting for a dark side using Jedi to come along to possess and regain his full power.



Zardnaar said:


> Why has he been hiding for 30 years?



The spirit of Siddious has been stuck on the Death Star since Palpatine's death.



Zardnaar said:


> Where did he get his Uber fleet from?



The Emperor always had contingency plans based on things her foresaw.  Seeing the possibility of his own death at the hands of Darth Vader, he had the fleet constructed so that when he returned to the mortal world, he would be ready to conquer the galaxy again.



Zardnaar said:


> Where did the resistance get their fleet from since they were crushed?



Horrified by the destruction of Hosnian Prime, a galaxy that only wanted peace is now ready to fight back once more just as it did after the destruction of Alderan.



Zardnaar said:


> Rey's background was Kylo lying?



Nope.  And if I had to guess, Rey is one of many clones of the same force sensitive original, hence why she saw hundreds of copies of herself in the dark side cave and why there is a 'Darth' Rey.



Zardnaar said:


> More superweapons?



Superweapons are critical to the Emperor's plans.  After dissolving the Senate in ANH, these weapons are the only way for the Emperor to maintain control without the bureaucracy.  That's why we had a DSII and Star Killer Base.  As part of the Emperor's contingency, he was looking to miniaturize the technology so that it wouldn't be tied to a single, super expensive and vulnerable weapon.



Zardnaar said:


> Is the ending a rehash of RoTJ?




Nope, the PT was about destroying the old order, the OT about rebirth, and the ST is about creating something new.  The failure of the galaxy after the OT was in trying to go back to the old ways, instead of creating something new and better.  Hence the Skywalkers replacing the Jedi, who, as good as they were for a thousand generations, had a critical weakness.

Amazingly, I think the ST is far more set up to tie up the entire Skywalker Saga than I would have guessed.  I have a strong sense that there was a clear story blueprint behind the trilogy that Kennedy got from Lucas and that the only real misstep in the series came when they decided to rewrite the ending of TFA to center around Starkiller Base.


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## Istbor (Dec 13, 2019)

OB1 said:


> "A Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."  Master Yoda
> 
> I'd say the end of TLJ was the perfect embodiment of this ideal, and Luke was totally badass in the way that a true Jedi Master would be.




I just have to say. I got the same impression from that last stand of Luke's. 

That this was a total badass Jedi Master move. Using the old apprentice's mistrust, paranoia, and anger against him to accomplish his goals. To save lives, and keep the spark of hope going.

I don't think that fight diminished Luke in any way, shape, or form.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 13, 2019)

Istbor said:


> I just have to say. I got the same impression from that last stand of Luke's.
> 
> That this was a total badass Jedi Master move. Using the old apprentice's mistrust, paranoia, and anger against him to accomplish his goals. To save lives, and keep the spark of hope going.
> 
> I don't think that fight diminished Luke in any way, shape, or form.




 Killing him off a movie to soon and Luke tossing the lightsaber and boobies milk was it.


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## Anoth (Dec 14, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> Killing him off a movie to soon and Luke tossing the lightsaber and boobies milk was it.




they don’t have to kill him off to make a good movie. It’s a big galaxy. That’s so cliche.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 14, 2019)

Anoth said:


> they don’t have to kill him off to make a good movie. It’s a big galaxy. That’s so cliche.




 They don't but if I was gonna kill him off I would do it in the 3rd movie.


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## OB1 (Dec 14, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> Killing him off a movie to soon and Luke tossing the lightsaber and boobies milk was it.




Where else did Luke's character have to go?  He like Yoda before him had his failure and hermitage period, followed by passing on important lessons to the new hero.  He also finally forgave himself, and sacrificed himself for the greater good.

As for lightsaber and boobies milk?  1.  Some of that was testing how Rey would respond and 2.  Being a hermit makes you weird (see Yoda).


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## Zardnaar (Dec 14, 2019)

OB1 said:


> Where else did Luke's character have to go?  He like Yoda before him had his failure and hermitage period, followed by passing on important lessons to the new hero.  He also finally forgave himself, and sacrificed himself for the greater good.
> 
> As for lightsaber and boobies milk?  1.  Some of that was testing how Rey would respond and 2.  Being a hermit makes you weird (see Yoda).




 1. He could have successfully reestablished the Jedi. Kylo still could have gone dark.
2. Repeating oddball hermit gig a'la Yoda.


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## Anoth (Dec 14, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> 1. He could have successfully reestablished the Jedi. Kylo still could have gone dark.
> 2. Repeating oddball hermit gig a'la Yoda.




i so wish they would have followed the expanded universe some and kept that in continuity


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## OB1 (Dec 14, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> 1. He could have successfully reestablished the Jedi. Kylo still could have gone dark.
> 2. Repeating oddball hermit gig a'la Yoda.




1.  But the whole point of the Saga is this is when the Jedi Order finally failed and was replaced by something better.  Destruction, Rebirth, Synthesis.
2.  He learned it from Yoda.  It worked, so why not try it again.


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## Anoth (Dec 14, 2019)

OB1 said:


> 1.  But the whole point of the Saga is this is when the Jedi Order finally failed and was replaced by something better.  Destruction, Rebirth, Synthesis.
> 2.  He learned it from Yoda.  It worked, so why not try it again.



The Hegelian dialect at work. So Machiavellian.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 14, 2019)

Istbor said:


> I mean... A ton of those are just Star Wars tropes at this point.
> 
> Superweapons? Check
> Secret vast fleets hiding in preperation? Check
> ...



The only bold prediction I’ll make that actually matters to me is that there will be no “grey Jedi”. 

I mostly make that prediction because...I’m not sure I can care about Star Wars if the Force is at balance when the light and dark are equal. To me, that is antithetical to the movies thus far, and to the point of the OT. 

Part of what’s special about SW is that the mythical spiritual force that guides and permeates all life in the universe is _Good_, and the supernatural Evil of the setting is _an unnatural corruption of that force. _
If the moral nature of the force becomes grey, I just...don’t see why Star Wars matter at all anymore.


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## Eltab (Dec 14, 2019)

I predict the 'Resistance Fleet' will be led (more or less) by Lando.  His official reason to be here is troubleshooting for what is left of the Republic government.  His unofficial reason is to check up on Leia and Han.  He will hold a private funeral for Han Solo and personally fund the state funeral for General-Princess Leia Organa.  And then he and his rag-tag fleet will set out to defeat impossible odds ... again.  (With a little help from their friends.)


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## OB1 (Dec 14, 2019)

doctorbadwolf said:


> The only bold prediction I’ll make that actually matters to me is that there will be no “grey Jedi”.
> 
> I mostly make that prediction because...I’m not sure I can care about Star Wars if the Force is at balance when the light and dark are equal. To me, that is antithetical to the movies thus far, and to the point of the OT.
> 
> ...



I think that the force can be good while the Jedi are ‘grey’ in that it’s important for each Jedi to confront and conquer the darkness inside themselves.
To me, that’s the point of Luke’s journey in the OT and what separates him from Yoda and the old order. 
The old order failed by trying to exert such tight control of force sensitives that they spent a lifetime indoctrinating them against the slightest touch of the dark side, going so far as to take children from their families as babies to ‘train’ them.
That concept worked until it failed spectacularly. The new order needs a new way to deal with darkness.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 14, 2019)

OB1 said:


> I think that the force can be good while the Jedi are ‘grey’ in that it’s important for each Jedi to confront and conquer the darkness inside themselves.
> To me, that’s the point of Luke’s journey in the OT and what separates him from Yoda and the old order.
> The old order failed by trying to exert such tight control of force sensitives that they spent a lifetime indoctrinating them against the slightest touch of the dark side, going so far as to take children from their families as babies to ‘train’ them.
> That concept worked until it failed spectacularly. The new order needs a new way to deal with darkness.



I’m not interested in that, but I’d be fine with it as long as it doesn’t imply or state that the Force itself is grey.

Edit: and that includes the whole EU thing where grey Jedi can use dark side powers and it doesn’t matter.


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## ccs (Dec 14, 2019)

OB1 said:


> The old order failed by trying to exert such tight control of force sensitives that they spent a lifetime indoctrinating them against the slightest touch of the dark side, going so far as to take children from their families as babies to ‘train’ them.
> That concept worked until it failed spectacularly. The new order needs a new way to deal with darkness.




The old order failing is an example of _two_ sets of spectacularly failed Wisdom checks.
*1)* Qui-Gon Jinns seeking to bring "balance" to the Force.
Um, how'd he _think_ this was going to play out?  The Jedi were in control, things were generally good (except for the unknown trouble Palpatine was stirring up), there were no Sith (that they knew of) & even if there were there'd only be _two_ of them.  Vs the might of _all_ of the Jedi.   If you balance that.... Then there's either going to be a lot more Sith, a whole lot less Jedi, or both in the near future.  
That sounds like a terrible plan!
Why didn't the Jedi Council point this out to Qui-Con?  
*2)*  Ok, so you snatch up 10 year old Anikin.  You're told that he's too old (presumably because the Jedi claim the kids as babies before any attachments?).  Clearly though there's a reason why this isn't how it's done.  And you proceed to give him the traditional Jedi training anyways.  And surprise, he develops problems as his Mother is still a slave back on Tatoonie.
???  And the Jedi never once consider altering their program, spending some serious coin to make Wato the wealthiest little blue cgi muppet on Tatoonie, & setting Anis mom up in a nice comfy condo because????
Whatever Watos price + Coruscant rent,  I'd think that'd be $ well spent in avoiding balancing the Force.


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## Hriston (Dec 14, 2019)

The imbalance was the presence of a Sith Lord. Anakin didn’t bring balance to the Force until he destroyed the emperor. That was the fulfillment of his destiny.


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## Son of the Serpent (Dec 14, 2019)

The funny thing is the sith philosophy is really the only one of the major three that is actually logically serviceable even though its the one of the 3 that is meant to be the most clearly flawed.  Really its the only one that actually works.  The grey jedi philosophy essentially amounts to a limp wristed fail even though its intended to be the reasonable one.


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## Morrus (Dec 14, 2019)

Hriston said:


> The imbalance was the presence of a Sith Lord. Anakin didn’t bring balance to the Force until he destroyed the emperor. That was the fulfillment of his destiny.



There's a dozen theories about what 'balance to the force' meant. This is a valid one but it's only one of many.


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## Hriston (Dec 14, 2019)

Morrus said:


> There's a dozen theories about what 'balance to the force' meant. This is a valid one but it's only one of many.



I’m going to go with the Jedi Council on what they meant by “imbalance”.


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## Morrus (Dec 14, 2019)

Hriston said:


> I’m going to go with the Jedi Council on what they meant by “imbalance”.



You could, but the Jedi Council didn't say that. They didn't even know the Sith still existed. Which bit are you referring to?


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## Hriston (Dec 14, 2019)

Morrus said:


> You could, but the Jedi Council didn't say that. They didn't even know the Sith still existed. Which bit are you referring to?



The Jedi knew there was an imbalance and that it indicated the existence of a Sith Lord. In this scene, for example, Anakin and Mace Windu discuss that they had feared the presence of and been searching for a Sith Lord.


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## Morrus (Dec 14, 2019)

Hriston said:


> The Jedi knew there was an imbalance and that it indicated the existence of a Sith Lord. In this scene, for example, Anakin and Mace Windu discuss that they had feared the presence of and been searching for a Sith Lord.



That scene does not mention Anakin bringing balance to the Force.

I did a quick search on all three prequel scripts for references to the word “balance” (there are very few). I haven’t been able to find any reference to the Jedi Council saying that correcting the imbalance meant Anakin killing the Emperor.


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## Hriston (Dec 14, 2019)

Morrus said:


> That scene does not mention Anakin bringing balance to the Force.



He’s the Chosen One! Of course he’s supposed to bring balance to the Force!



Morrus said:


> I did a quick search on all three prequel scripts for references to the word “balance” (there are very few). I haven’t been able to find any reference to the Jedi Council saying that correcting the imbalance meant Anakin killing the Emperor.



In this scene, Obi Wan and Master Windu confirm that it’s their understanding of the prophecy that the Chosen One is supposed to destroy the Sith and [thereby] bring balance to the Force.


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## Morrus (Dec 14, 2019)

Hriston said:


> He’s the Chosen One! Of course he’s supposed to bring balance to the Force!
> 
> 
> In this scene, Obi Wan and Master Windu confirm that it’s their understanding of the prophecy that the Chosen One is supposed to destroy the Sith and [thereby] bring balance to the Force.



Ah, cool. That’s the closest I can find to such a reference. You side with Obi Wan rather than Yoda, then? I take that scene as making it clear that the Jedi haven’t the foggiest idea what it’s supposed to mean.


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## Vael (Dec 14, 2019)

The queer character in RoS is going to be an insulting, minor, blink-and-you'll-miss-it reference.


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## GreyLord (Dec 14, 2019)

Well, I'm going to be seeing it VERY soon it seems.  Maybe before many others.  If I come in after the premier and post a prediction...is that a prediction or a spoiler?

Just kidding.  I'm going to watch it and then go off on vacation for Christmas so won't be saying anything.


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## Hriston (Dec 14, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Ah, cool. That’s the closest I can find to such a reference. You side with Obi Wan rather than Yoda, then? I take that scene as making it clear that the Jedi haven’t the foggiest idea what it’s supposed to mean.



Yoda expresses uncertainty about the interpretation, but everyone watching the movie should have already seen Episode VI and knows that it’s correct.


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## Morrus (Dec 14, 2019)

Hriston said:


> Yoda expresses uncertainty about the interpretation, but everyone watching the movie should have already seen Episode VI and knows that it’s correct.



I interpret things differently.


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## Hriston (Dec 14, 2019)

Morrus said:


> I interpret things differently.



Okay, that’s fine. I’m sure we’d all like to hear your interpretation of what it means to bring balance to the Force.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 14, 2019)

Bringing balance can’t mean anything but destroying the sith, from the perspective of the OT. Luke remains as a Jedi Knight, and the film makes explicit that Leia is force sensitive in RoTJ. So either Anakin never brought balance to the force, or he did so by destroying the Sith. 

I’m starting to come around to the reincarnation idea, but Rey is Anakin and Ben is not a reincarnation. But mostly I still think it won’t be reincarnation.


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## Legatus Legionis (Dec 15, 2019)

.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 15, 2019)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> According to the official novelization:
> 
> Return of the Jedi by James Khan, Del Rey Book, 1983 Page 172.
> 
> ...



Nah. The Emperor died. Doesn’t mean he stayed dead.


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## trappedslider (Dec 15, 2019)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> According to the official novelization:
> 
> Return of the Jedi by James Khan, Del Rey Book, 1983 Page 172.
> 
> ...



I didn't want to have to do this but...

First the differences between the book and the movie 

Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi (novel)

and now differences between the book and later works :



The planet Endor is said to have long since been destroyed in a cataclysm, leaving only the moon.
Ishi Tib is an individual rather than a species.
The Rancor is explicitly called a mutant.
Obi-Wan describes Owen Lars as his brother, and says that Padmé Amidala died when Luke and Leia were four. He also tells Luke that Anakin fell into lava, clawing his way out as Darth Vader. All of these would be retconned by the prequel trilogy.
Vader, when hesitating on whether to kill Palpatine or let Luke die, mentions that Palpatine was beloved by most of the galaxy, and that killing him would most likely leave the galaxy in horror. This was supported in _Coruscant and the Core Worlds_, which mentions that the people of Coruscant had immense loyalty to Palpatine and even considered him to be a demigod, although this is contradicted in the Special Edition of the film, with the montage depicting various worlds celebrating in addition to Endor.


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## Umbran (Dec 15, 2019)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> Disney is going against CANON by having the Emperor return, if the rumours are true.
> 
> So for me, that means Disney SW is NOT CANON, as it goes directly against CANON.




Hardly.  Long before the emperor dies, they demonstrate that for a force user, death is a condition of the body, not the spirit.


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## Morrus (Dec 15, 2019)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> According to the official novelization:
> 
> Return of the Jedi by James Khan, Del Rey Book, 1983 Page 172.
> 
> ...



DOES IT


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## Zardnaar (Dec 15, 2019)

We still don't know how he comes back. It's a mistake IMHO to bring him back but I can understand why they did.

 The mist obvious one that makes sense in universe involves clones in some ways.  

 How they do it is important. Should they do it probably not as it makes RotJ a bit pointless.


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## trappedslider (Dec 15, 2019)

Here's my prediction 
*Zardnaar will be unhappy with some aspect because of canon and the old EU *


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## Zardnaar (Dec 15, 2019)

trappedslider said:


> Here's my prediction
> *Zardnaar will be unhappy with some aspect because of canon and the old EU *




 See what happens. A lot of the rumors floating around online are BS IMHO.


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## GreyLord (Dec 15, 2019)

Morrus said:


> DOES IT




I suppose it depends on how much you respect the person who created the item or not and what they said was canon or not.

For example, Lucas never said Disney's creations were Canon, though he DID sell them the rights.

He DID say that the official canon items were...if I recall, the movies, the novels, and ironically, the radio dramas.

The order that they took precedence changed from time to time, originally the movies, but eventually whatever HE said was more true to his original vision (which actually in some ways at times were seen as the radio dramas with more of his original ideas, or the novels...it always seemed to be in flux.  Lucas actually was quite wishy washy at times despite what some portray about him).

The EU, so derided by those who hate the older Star Wars or not really paid heed to by others was ALSO considered a form of Canon by Lucas.  HOWEVER, he made it clear that it was not HIS Canon...it was NOT HIS universe.  It happened in some other alternate universe.

Even so, he actually DICTATED some things that would happen there and nixed others, having some involvement and control over the entire EU.  One of the more controversial things had to do with his decision on the death of a Anakin (named after Darth Vader Anakin) and the turn of an older brother called Jacen (who became, I think a Darth Krayt?).  He had a LOT more control over some things that people attribute or like to think when they are in favor of the New Star Wars and loved the nixing of the EU.

So, it really depends on how much you respect creator's rights over their own creations.

We see variations on how much in favor people are or are not in regards to this.

For example, with Lord of the Rings some people are very adherent to JRRR Tolkien, others want artistic merit to be allowed.

Other items are much more foggy...who is considered the original creators of Marvel Comics or DC comics...especially as there are multiple story lines by multiple different authors.  For Marvel is it always Stan Lee or is it Kirby or someone else?

If you respect Lucas and have it as HIS creation, than anything after the sale to Disney could not possibly be Canon, and several of the items while he still had full control are also not Canon.

If you are less respective, and rather are in favor of corporations rather than people, than anything and everything Disney says is Canon regardless of what Lucas may have said in the past.

And then there's a whole wide gulf of opinions and thoughts in between those two ideas.

As an occasional author myself, I tend to favor the individual Creator's rights in regards to Canon, but I also know that for many properties that was tossed away a LONG time ago in favor of corporation or business control (for example things such as Conan, Cthulhu, Tarzan and many other properties popular among the gaming community we are a part of).


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## Morrus (Dec 15, 2019)

GreyLord said:


> I suppose it depends on how much you respect the person who created the item or not and what they said was canon or not.
> 
> For example, Lucas never said Disney's creations were Canon, though he DID sell them the rights.
> 
> ...



You’re REPLYING to a two-word joke ABOUT the use of ALL CAPS in a POST.

Which YOU also seem FOND of.


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## GreyLord (Dec 16, 2019)

Morrus said:


> You’re REPLYING to a two-word joke ABOUT the use of ALL CAPS in a POST.
> 
> Which YOU also seem FOND of.




For emphasis...sure.  Hard to convey spoken things in speech with writing...one of a few work around I use.

I admit though, it went over my head that it was a joke.  I am slow on that sometimes.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 16, 2019)

Main guidelines Lucas laid down for the old EU

1. Yoda's species was a no go.

2. Sith pre 1999. The Yuuzhan Vong idea was the Sith species returning.

3. No killing OT characters (they got permission for Chewie).

Jacen and Krayt were different characters.


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## GreyLord (Dec 16, 2019)

Well, it premieres very soon now.  Better get your predictions in quick.  I expect reviews will start popping up within the next few days.


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## Morrus (Dec 16, 2019)

We're seeing it Wednesday midnight.


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## trappedslider (Dec 16, 2019)

Morrus said:


> We're seeing it Wednesday midnight.



If I might be so bold as to suggest making a separate spoiler thread.


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## lowkey13 (Dec 16, 2019)

*Deleted by user*


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## Umbran (Dec 16, 2019)

trappedslider said:


> If I might be so bold as to suggest making a separate spoiler thread.




Yeah, there should be one - it is traditional.


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## Istbor (Dec 16, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> They don't but if I was gonna kill him off I would do it in the 3rd movie.




You know what? I'm saying it here and now. If Zardnaar starts a GoFundMe or Kickstarter to finally make the Star Wars movies as he envisions them, I will put down hard currency to make that happen.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 17, 2019)

Serious predictions.
Tonight's early premier. Overwhelmingly positive. Invite only more or less will skew things.

 General audiences view. Somewhere between Solo and Rogue 1 quality wise.


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## Vael (Dec 17, 2019)

Alright, final predictions:

Emperor is dead, but appears as a Force ghost
We get a scene with Force Ghost Luke
Whatever happens to Kylo (and I don't know), Rey, Finn and Poe will survive for possibly more movies
While sidelined, Leia doesn't die
Rey is not a secret Kenobi or Skywalker
Snap Wexley is the gay character? (Greg Grunberg's character, one of the X-Wing Pilots from TFA)

My confidence level on these is not high. Honestly, I'm nervous, but excited. Can they stick the landing?

Oh, but I still expect to be utterly annoyed at their idea of an LGBT+ character in the movie.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 17, 2019)

Kill list predictions.

Leia dead
Kylo dead
Lando dead
C3PO dead
Palpatine dead


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## GreyLord (Dec 17, 2019)

The media blackout is over.  We need a spoiler thread probably soon.

My prediction now before that thread (though this is probably my last visit to enworld till the end of the month).  Those who show that they liked TLJ probably will like this one.  Those who hated TFA and TLJ will not like TROS.

Those who didn't like TLJ but did not hate TFA may enjoy TROS...though they may also find some things that don't quite fit.  It's a toss up, some may love it, others merely like it.


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## Umbran (Dec 17, 2019)

GreyLord said:


> We need a spoiler thread probably soon.




When someone has seen the movie, and wants to talk spoilers, they can post one.  It requires no special official action.  Just note SPOILERS in the thread title.


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## Gladius Legis (Dec 17, 2019)

GreyLord said:


> The media blackout is over.  We need a spoiler thread probably soon.
> 
> My prediction now before that thread (though this is probably my last visit to enworld till the end of the month).  Those who show that they liked TLJ probably will like this one.  Those who hated TFA and TLJ will not like TROS.
> 
> Those who didn't like TLJ but did not hate TFA may enjoy TROS...though they may also find some things that don't quite fit.  It's a toss up, some may love it, others merely like it.



Actually, I think the opposite, at least on one front. Those who liked TLJ will hate TROS.

And those who hated TLJ ... will also hate TROS.


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## GreyLord (Dec 17, 2019)

Gladius Legis said:


> Actually, I think the opposite, at least on one front. Those who liked TLJ will hate TROS.
> 
> And those who hated TLJ ... will also hate TROS.




Maybe.  I think a majority who saw it last night enjoyed the movie.  A few who probably were disappointed, but I think the overall reaction from the premiere is positive.  [edit: On reflection, those who were meh on TLJ may also hate this one.  Depends on what made them meh.  Unfortunately I think a LOT of people were meh after TLJ...so...maybe...maybe not.]

My last prediction is NOT for people's eyes...



Spoiler



There are going to be some major plot points which have no explanation and some will see them as plot holes.  Only thing I will say is...

And this is my PERSONAL opinion and take on the entire ending...

And if you highlighted this to unspoiler it...I still will say you may not want to read the next item...though whether it is valid or not is for you to determine.  It COULD spoil the entire ending of TROS so...don't read it if you don't want that...though I still try to be somewhat vague.





Spoiler



I feel it goes through the idea of Anakin being made by the Force by Darth Sideous.  In a way, this means Anakin WAS the child of Sideous as well.  If this is true, than Rey having a last name at the end of the movie actually makes a lot more sense than some people are going to claim.

In fact, I predict that some will go into conniption fits over this issue.

This is the item that many are going to be VERY unhappy with, especially for hardcore SW fans who hated TLJ and felt it did not really work with the rest of the series.

But if one takes the idea that Anakin is actually the Son of Palpatine...Rey's last name makes sense.


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## Istbor (Dec 17, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> Serious predictions.
> Tonight's early premier. Overwhelmingly positive. Invite only more or less will skew things.
> 
> General audiences view. Somewhere between Solo and Rogue 1 quality wise.




Isn't that a pretty big margin? Since Solo had luke warm views and Rogue 1 was prett good.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 17, 2019)

Istbor said:


> Isn't that a pretty big margin? Since Solo had luke warm views and Rogue 1 was prett good.




Solo tended to get decent reviews in the 70% range.

Watching the John Campea show. He loved  TFA, and liked TLJ. He got to see it last might. He's very positive pro Disney often gets called a shill.

He's spinning it but it didn't do it for him didn't like it.


No spoilers 20 minutes in. Hes respecting the review embargo. He's reading out other reports as well but they're more impressions atm due the embargo.  That's 19 minutes in.

Lots of action apparently.

Note that everyone that's seen it is on invite lists. First 25 minutes are the not review no spoilers. Open questions from there on out do no guarantee someone asking questions spoils anything.


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## Istbor (Dec 18, 2019)

One more day till I can see it. Fighting that urge to get into the spoiler thread... I so want to... Argh!


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## Mallus (Dec 18, 2019)

From the reviews I've skimmed so far, it seems Abrams has outdone himself in making an Abrams movie. To thine own self be true, I suppose. Even when furiously copying others. 

Still excited to see Rise, though I'm fairly sure it'll be in a theater that serves booze.


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## Morrus (Dec 18, 2019)

Under 3 hours to go!


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## Morrus (Dec 18, 2019)

Istbor said:


> One more day till I can see it. Fighting that urge to get into the spoiler thread... I so want to... Argh!



I wouldn't bother. It's just people posting reviews they saw, not people who have seen the movie.


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## Mallus (Dec 18, 2019)

Jealous! I'm waiting until the 30th to see it w/an old friend. Which is probably the best way to see a Star Wars movie.


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## Morrus (Dec 18, 2019)

Mallus said:


> Jealous! I'm waiting until the 30th to see it w/an old friend. Which is probably the best way to see a Star Wars movie.



I think my wife qualifies as an old friend. And she's a bigger Star Wars fan than me! (And I'm quite a Star Wars fan).


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## Istbor (Dec 18, 2019)

Morrus said:


> I wouldn't bother. It's just people posting reviews they saw, not people who have seen the movie.



Okay. Whew. That calms me down a little. Soon enough I will be in there throwing down opinions. 
I look forward to it.


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## Vael (Dec 21, 2019)

Well, 4 out of the 7 ain't bad.


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