# Canada... where to move?



## Y.O.Morales (Apr 6, 2005)

Hello Canadians (and non-canadians if they want to chime in):

I'm planning to study a master's degree in some Canadian university in about two years (I'm planning for something likle Simon Fraser's Interactive Arts and Technology program). So I basically want to know which is the best district to live. I know that everybody will claim that their area is the best for living and studying, so please, give me reasons too for why it is.

And one last note: no franÇais

Thank you a lot!


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## mojo1701 (Apr 6, 2005)

What, like, Province?


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## Y.O.Morales (Apr 6, 2005)

Aye


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## mojo1701 (Apr 6, 2005)

Well, I'm in southern Ontario. Majority of the population is here, as well as major cities.


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## fusangite (Apr 6, 2005)

Depends on your priorities. If you are looking for real urban life, however, you're limited to 3-5 cities. The only cities with more than 1 million residents are Toronto (4 million), Montreal (3 million) and Vancouver (2 million). Edmonton and Calgary verge on 1 million. 

Another issue is your weather tolerance. How long can you tolerate snow being on the ground. How about temperatures less than -10 degrees?

Finally, there is the question of the quality and type of degree you want.

So, some information on those fronts could be helpful.

Now, if you're seriously considering SFU, I can make a few comments as I lived in Vancouver for 30 of the first 32 years of my life. But I would still appreciate knowing what your criteria are for a place to live.


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## Algolei (Apr 6, 2005)

I'm in Winnipeg, and for someone from a warm place on earth, I recommend anywhere but Winnipeg.  Sure, it gets hot in the summer, but only for a day or two and then *wham!* you're neck-deep in snow.

Toronto seems like a nice place if you want to be near the main population zones.  Lots of tourists like it.  But Vancouver is even better because it's way over on the left-hand side of the continent--nearest to California and...uh...Washington (not that you'll be able to cross the border, of course).  Plus the tourists seem to like it.

I honestly can't recommend anywhere else.


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## kmdietri (Apr 6, 2005)

I would suggest you have a look at the University of Waterloo.  It's a very good Technology school with very well recognized engineering and computer science departments.  It also has a very culturally diverse student body.

Plus it's in a nice city close to Toronto, but importantly not in Toronto.


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## Malovech (Apr 6, 2005)

*Toronto*

Toronto, hands down.


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## Khayman (Apr 6, 2005)

If you're looking at a major urban centre, I'd recommend Vancouver --- less pollution than Toronto, more tolerant than Calgary, better weather (despite the annoying winter rain), good transit, great scenery (mountains, forests, ocean), and some unbelievable restaurants. 

Either that or Montreal --- despite being in Quebec, I barely needed to speak French while I was there. It helps a lot, but its not essential.

I always judge a city by how easy it is to get out of it (in the event of a meltdown, either personal or nuclear). Vancouver is still pretty high on that list.


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## Khayman (Apr 6, 2005)

Algolei said:
			
		

> I'm in Winnipeg, and for someone from a warm place on earth, I recommend anywhere but Winnipeg.  Sure, it gets hot in the summer, but only for a day or two and then *wham!* you're neck-deep in snow.




Hey, that's not true! 

Hold on, I'm having problems typing with my mitts on...


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Apr 6, 2005)

Don't know what the educational opportunities are like, but I was rather enchanted with Victoria, BC.  Very friendly people (friendliest I've met outside of Scotland), very moderate climate, and a beautiful and well-kept city.  Been a while since I was there, though, so I hope it hasn't changed.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Apr 6, 2005)

Y.O.Morales said:
			
		

> Aye




It's pronounced 'eh'.  You'll need to work on that.


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## mojo1701 (Apr 6, 2005)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> It's pronounced 'eh'.  You'll need to work on that.




It's usually as a question, too, eh?


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## fusangite (Apr 6, 2005)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> It's pronounced 'eh'.  You'll need to work on that.



Actually, it's pronounced 'aye' -- it's just spelt 'eh.'


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## mojo1701 (Apr 6, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Actually, it's pronounced 'aye' -- it's just spelt 'eh.'




No, 'aye' is pronounced like the letter 'I' or the body part 'eye.' 

'Eh' is... well... 'eh.' Like what the Fonz says. "Ehhhhhh".


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## Kanegrundar (Apr 6, 2005)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> Don't know what the educational opportunities are like, but I was rather enchanted with Victoria, BC.  Very friendly people (friendliest I've met outside of Scotland), very moderate climate, and a beautiful and well-kept city.  Been a while since I was there, though, so I hope it hasn't changed.



 I gotta second this.  Victoria is an excellent city.  It's a beautiful place with a lot of things to do.  

Kane


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## Ambrus (Apr 6, 2005)

I've lived in both Montreal and southern Ontario (Hamilton specifically) for several years at a time. Southern Ontario has a nicer climate (very mild winters by my standards) and a slew of reputable Universities to chose from (Kitchener, Waterloo, McMasters, Brock, ect). On the other hand, Montreal has a wonderful European feel with an embarassing number of fun festivals to partake of. Although the endless francophone vs anglophone and federal vs provincial goverment rhethoric can get tiresome on occasion it's easily ignored and speaking french is hardly a requirement for living in the area since there are few people here who don't speak english and there are two english universities (Concordia and the venerable McGill). Most importantly, people seem generally more friendly in Montreal; at least in my personal experience. Although I'm not originally from either place, I've chosen to come back to Montreal after living in Ontario for a few years.


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## fusangite (Apr 6, 2005)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> I gotta second this.  Victoria is an excellent city.  It's a beautiful place with a lot of things to do.
> 
> Kane



Victoria is not a city. It is a theme park surrounded by seniors housing developments with a few hippies and civil servants thrown into the mix. It is a lovely place to _visit._

EDIT: And the population of the entire metropolitan area is only 350,000; (Victoria is 90,000.)


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## Khayman (Apr 6, 2005)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> I gotta second this.  Victoria is an excellent city.  It's a beautiful place with a lot of things to do.




And you have soooooo much time to enjoy it, behind the slow drivers...


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## Kanegrundar (Apr 6, 2005)

I wouldn't know there.  I only drove from the ferry, to the hotel just a couple blocks away, and then to the customs station to get back on the ferry!  The rest of my time I walked.  

Kane


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## AIM-54 (Apr 7, 2005)

I can't believe no one has yet mentioned the educational mecca that is Saskatoon, Saskatchewan!    

Okay, I'm kidding, but I had to give a shout out to my hometown...although S'toon has a surprising variety of things to do, but really, you're probably better off in Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal and their respective environs...but if you really want to prove you're tough, you'll want to experience a real Canadian prairie winter...everything else pales in comparison (though the east coast gets way more snow...don't think the east coast gets 6+ weeks straight of temperatures no higher than -30C the way we did 6-7 years ago).  We are, however, one of the sunniest places in North America...about the only thing we have over the Pacific Northwest, which is known for its rain.   

Personally, I like Toronto.


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## Algolei (Apr 7, 2005)

I'd just like to add one warning:  Don't go anywhere between Ontario and British Columbia.  Every place in between can be described by at least one of the following:

- incredibly boring
- full of xenophobic rednecks (I'm especially lookin' at you, Alberta!  )
- stupidly cold
- in the middle of a hayfield in the middle of no where in the middle of hell
- a dumb place to put two 7-Elevens on the same corner--but they did it anyway.

 And I say that as someone who loves the place.



			
				Khayman said:
			
		

> Hey, that's not true!
> 
> Hold on, I'm having problems typing with my mitts on...



Okay, now I know for an absolute certainty you're from here too:  That's exactly what I would have said if the roles were reversed.


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## Jesus_marley (Apr 7, 2005)

Geez..... does Canada somehow end at Quebec or something?
Having been born and raised on the East coast (Halifax, Nova Scotia to be precise) I can say that it is one of the nicest places to live. Friendly people, rich history, 4 universities within 10 kilometres of each other...

Having lived in Victoria as well for a couple of years, I can attest that it is a place for newlyweds and nearlydeads.... oh and tourists.


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## Malovech (Apr 8, 2005)

Do not go to the Maritimes, unless you like crippling unemployment, the highest obesity rate in all of Canada and the most boring urban centres this side of Winnipeg. Only simpletons live in the Maritimes, sorry Jesus_marley but you are so far off it ain't even funny.


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## Del (Apr 8, 2005)

*Not Abbotsford*

Don't move to Abbotsford, the farm type city south-east of Vancouver.

http://www.canada.com/search/story.html?id=79251364-06c4-4180-b920-330a74c86fb8

I can see Yale highschool from my window here in my studio. I swear the bus stops here you worry when these little thugs and thugettes wander around in their gangs.


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## Algolei (Apr 8, 2005)

Jesus_marley said:
			
		

> Geez..... does Canada somehow end at Quebec or something?
> Having been born and raised on the East coast (Halifax, Nova Scotia to be precise)....



Well, he said no french, so I assumed he wanted to live someplace that actually spoke _english_.  



			
				Del said:
			
		

> Don't move to Abbotsford, the farm type city south-east of Vancouver.



Heh heh, my brother lives near there.  It's where I stayed when I visited Vancouver.

(Sorry if I frightened you with my black leathers....)


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## fusangite (Apr 8, 2005)

Del said:
			
		

> Don't move to Abbotsford, the farm type city south-east of Vancouver.
> 
> http://www.canada.com/search/story.html?id=79251364-06c4-4180-b920-330a74c86fb8
> 
> I can see Yale highschool from my window here in my studio. I swear the bus stops here you worry when these little thugs and thugettes wander around in their gangs.



Abbotsford is a special city. It's positioned just right so that its downtown gets giant opaque urban smog inversions that send the elderly and disabled scurrying into their homes while, at the same time, there is still the omnipresent smell of chicken and pig manure.

When I was born (in 1972), Abbotsford had a population of 8000; when I left BC last year, it had a population of 108000.


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## Mod_Bod (Apr 8, 2005)

*You forgot about Ottawa!*



			
				fusangite said:
			
		

> Depends on your priorities. If you are looking for real urban life, however, you're limited to 3-5 cities. The only cities with more than 1 million residents are Toronto (4 million), Montreal (3 million) and Vancouver (2 million). Edmonton and Calgary verge on 1 million.
> 
> Another issue is your weather tolerance. How long can you tolerate snow being on the ground. How about temperatures less than -10 degrees?
> 
> ...




--------------------------------------------------------------
You forgot to mention Ottawa before Edmonton and Calgary.  We're the 4th largest population in Canada (with Ottawa - Gatineau over one million people now).  We have four universities (one is a religious institution, though) and a pretty good growth rate (jobs and population).  As the capital of the country, we have all the national museums and important cultural institutions too.  Good mass transit and lots of outdoor activities for any season.  I really like living here.  (we are less than two hours from Montréal too... if you like that sort of thing for the week-end   )


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## fusangite (Apr 9, 2005)

Mod_Bod said:
			
		

> --------------------------------------------------------------
> You forgot to mention Ottawa before Edmonton and Calgary.  We're the 4th largest population in Canada (with Ottawa - Gatineau over one million people now).  We have four universities (one is a religious institution, though) and a pretty good growth rate (jobs and population).  As the capital of the country, we have all the national museums and important cultural institutions too.  Good mass transit and lots of outdoor activities for any season.  I really like living here.  (we are less than two hours from Montréal too... if you like that sort of thing for the week-end   )



Oops. My bad. I was just in Ottawa; I can't believe I forgot it in my post.


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## Shag (Apr 9, 2005)

Don't move to St. Catharines, its like a white trash training facility here.


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## barsoomcore (Apr 11, 2005)

I'm a West-Coaster -- BC and Alberta mark my total Canadian experience. If you're choosing between Calgary/Edmonton and Vancouver, there only a few points on which Alberta does better:

Raising a family in a tract home -- if you want to buy a three-bedroom house to raise a family in, Calgary's got you covered. The immensity of Calgary's suburban sprawl is frightening. In the mid-eighties my house was on the very fringe of the city, with open pasture land just across the road, nothing but bare hills and sloughs all the way to Rockies. Now my old house is MILES from the city edge.

But culturally, Alberta's pretty much a wasteland.

Vancouver has easily the best weather in Canada (if I am never again outside in sub-zero temperature that'll be just fine with me, thanks awfully), pretty good public transit, beautiful surroundings, and, well, not exactly heaps of culture but at least a bit here and there. The Vancouver Film Festival isn't nearly the spectacle that Toronto has, but it's good fun all the same.

SFU is a wacky school, up on top of a mountain, but I've met plenty of graduates who seem like okay people, so it probably won't screw you up any more than any other school.

Vancouver is INSANELY expensive, is the only problem. Housing prices here are really high (unjustifiably so in my opinion, but that counts for nothing), so you could have trouble finding an apartment in your price range. Depending on your price range. I live downtown so I see the worst of it, but prices are pretty high all over.

Good luck!


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## Khayman (Apr 11, 2005)

Algolei said:
			
		

> Okay, now I know for an absolute certainty you're from here too:  That's exactly what I would have said if the roles were reversed.




Yep --- born in the 'Peg, but I've moved around a lot.  Even lived in Flin Flon for a while, which entitles me to a scout badge or something.   

Despite the sheer insanity of Manitoba weather, I'd still live here over most of Hellberta or Southern Ontario.  Plus I can afford to buy a decent house for under $70,000...


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## Desdichado (Apr 11, 2005)

Khayman said:
			
		

> Despite the sheer insanity of Manitoba weather, I'd still live here over most of Hellberta or Southern Ontario.  Plus I can afford to buy a decent house for under $70,000...



That's $70,000 Canadian?  Yeow, that's less than $57k US at the current exchange rate!  I'm not sure what your standards of a decent house are, but that's still insanely cheap compared to what I'm used to.  My house was recently valued at over four times that amount, and I only have a "decent" house by my standards, as opposed to the house I hope to have in 5 years or so.  Now, I know the area in which I live is relatively expensive, but even in Texas where I used to live, I'd be spending at least twice as much as you are saying.


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## Sarellion (Apr 11, 2005)

Try Nunavut for a real change. You will probably know everone in the province when you leave.  

Just kidding. As a visitor I found Ontario pretty nice. Family is living there so I visit frequently. I made the mistake of going for six months in the winter last time. 
It was ok but something more pleasant would have been fine for someone used to the milder climates of western europe. The winter was one of the harsher ones and not the norm though.

I found Toronto pretty nice but I don´t know so much of the country. I met nice people and a good gaming group over there.


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## Celebrim (Apr 11, 2005)

Speaking as someone south of the border, [political comments removed]

Edited by Pielorinho:  Politics, even Canadian politics, not welcome here.


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## Khayman (Apr 11, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> That's $70,000 Canadian?  Yeow, that's less than $57k US at the current exchange rate!  I'm not sure what your standards of a decent house are, but that's still insanely cheap compared to what I'm used to.  My house was recently valued at over four times that amount, and I only have a "decent" house by my standards, as opposed to the house I hope to have in 5 years or so.  Now, I know the area in which I live is relatively expensive, but even in Texas where I used to live, I'd be spending at least twice as much as you are saying.




Most houses in my part of town run from about $80k to $150k, with most of the new homes in the south end of the city running at or over $200k.  (I live in a granola-filled character neighbourhood, mostly Victorian homes, which has seen prices double over the last three years.)  I just bought a 1-3/4 story 3-bedroom place just two blocks outside the area and it was half the price. No bodies in the back yard, either, but I plan to rectify that shortly.   

For comparison, a similar house in parts of Vancouver would run three to four times these amounts. Of course, the difference is the lifestyle: Vancouver comes with a Starbucks on every corner and fresh sushi in the mailbox, whereas Winnipeg is swarming with 6 HD dire mosquitoes for the half of the year it's not covered in snow.


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## barsoomcore (Apr 12, 2005)

Celebrim, can you remove the politically-charged comments from your post? There's no reason for a thread like this to get shut down.


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## Khayman (Apr 12, 2005)

Ah, don't worry.  Nothing draws Canadians together like talk of foreign annexation...


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## fusangite (Apr 12, 2005)

A few points:
1. I don't get any sense the original poster is even reading this thread.
2. Vancouver is only more expensive when it comes to housing. Restaurant food is about the best value for money you're going to find anywhere on this continent north of the Rio Grande. Ditto for public utilities, transit and auto insurance. Groceries are cheaper too, unless you really like cheese. If you could somehow avoid paying rent, Vancouver would be the cheapest place in the country but once you factor rent in, it's the most expensive.
3. In terms of cost of living, Vancouver, Ontario and Southern Alberta are probably the most expensive. However, the usual rule here is that cost of living varies inversely with the unemployment rate -- except in Vancouver where unemployment is fairly high and so is cost of living. 
4. Celebrim, are you aware that Saskatchewan has been run almost continuously by socialists since 1944 and that Manitoba has just re-elected the socialists to a second term in office in a row (their 5th I believe since 1965)? They're red states but not in the way you think they are. You see, in Canada, being rural doesn't have a whole lot to do with being right-wing.


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## Davek (Apr 12, 2005)

Khayman said:
			
		

> Most houses in my part of town run from about $80k to $150k, with most of the new homes in the south end of the city running at or over $200k.  (I live in a granola-filled character neighbourhood, mostly Victorian homes, which has seen prices double over the last three years.)  I just bought a 1-3/4 story 3-bedroom place just two blocks outside the area and it was half the price. No bodies in the back yard, either, but I plan to rectify that shortly.
> 
> For comparison, a similar house in parts of Vancouver would run three to four times these amounts. Of course, the difference is the lifestyle: Vancouver comes with a Starbucks on every corner and fresh sushi in the mailbox, whereas Winnipeg is swarming with 6 HD dire mosquitoes for the half of the year it's not covered in snow.




We also are the Slurpy Capital of the World for as long as they have held that contest.

If you don't mind my asking, what part of the city are you from?


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## Khayman (Apr 12, 2005)

Davek said:
			
		

> We also are the Slurpy Capital of the World for as long as they have held that contest.
> 
> If you don't mind my asking, what part of the city are you from?




Living in Wolseley right now; prior to that, East Kildonan.


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## Davek (Apr 13, 2005)

Elmwood/Glenwood area is my haunt.


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## Arnwyn (Apr 13, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> That's $70,000 Canadian?  Yeow, that's less than $57k US at the current exchange rate!  I'm not sure what your standards of a decent house are, but that's still insanely cheap compared to what I'm used to.  My house was recently valued at over four times that amount, and I only have a "decent" house by my standards, as opposed to the house I hope to have in 5 years or so.  Now, I know the area in which I live is relatively expensive, but even in Texas where I used to live, I'd be spending at least twice as much as you are saying.



Winnipeg is one of lowest cost-of-living cities in Canada. It is _completely_ incomparable to Detroit or Texas.

[In certain areas of the city (like in Wolseley) $70,000 CDN can indeed get you something "decent" (though only "decent"; in other areas of the city it would get you something atrocious). The average house price in Winnipeg is about $130,000 CDN; and as an example, $150,000 can get you a 1600 sqft. home + fully finished basement rec-room, skylights, small yard, 2-car garage, and very close to a large park and golf course.]


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## TheAuldGrump (Apr 13, 2005)

Algolei said:
			
		

> I'm in Winnipeg, and for someone from a warm place on earth, I recommend anywhere but Winnipeg.  Sure, it gets hot in the summer, but only for a day or two and then *wham!* you're neck-deep in snow.
> 
> Toronto seems like a nice place if you want to be near the main population zones.  Lots of tourists like it.  But Vancouver is even better because it's way over on the left-hand side of the continent--nearest to California and...uh...Washington (not that you'll be able to cross the border, of course).  Plus the tourists seem to like it.
> 
> I honestly can't recommend anywhere else.




A song about the Red River Valley in Winnepeg...
Come and pay for my fair if you love me,
And I’ll hasten to bid you adieu..
Say farewell to the Red River Valley,
And the folks who are shivering and blue.

Oh it’s forty below in the winter,
And it’s twenty below in the fall,
And it rises to zero in springtime,
but we ain’t got no summers at all...

In Maine we have a similar comment:
Summer? I wouldn't be gettin' you hopes up for summer, boy. Closest thing to summer we get around here is nine months of winter, and three months of rough sleddin.

The Auld Grump


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## Sledge (Apr 13, 2005)

Don't let anyone here give you all this misinformation.  If you are asking on ENworld, you need to go to Calgary.  Not for "culture" or anything fancy.  Just for gaming.  Sentry Box is Calgarys primary gaming store.  There are a few of the usual small places but this place is what makes Calgary a good place to live.  That and no PST.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 13, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> 4. Celebrim, are you aware that Saskatchewan has been run almost continuously by socialists since 1944 and that Manitoba has just re-elected the socialists to a second term in office in a row (their 5th I believe since 1965)? They're red states but not in the way you think they are. You see, in Canada, being rural doesn't have a whole lot to do with being right-wing.




Left-wing locally, right-wing nationally!  It's a rather interesting dichotomy.

But really, Western Canadians are a rather...unique lot.

Yes, I can say that.  I grew up there.


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## SWBaxter (Apr 13, 2005)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Left-wing locally, right-wing nationally! It's a rather interesting dichotomy.
> 
> But really, Western Canadians are a rather...unique lot.




Nah, just sensible. While they're conservative by nature, they're honest enough to understand that both farming and the natural resource sectors depend very strongly on government involvement, and vote accordingly. You're not as likely to see western Canadians get frothing mad over government spending while demanding increased subsidies for farmers as folks in certain other parts of the world.

So far as the original question goes, I have lived in southern Ontario (lived in Mississauga and Oakville, worked in Toronto), Ottawa, and now Vancouver. Overall I'd give the nod to Toronto and area, but it does depend on priorities. Vancouver has a better climate and outdoor activities of all types are a lot more accessible, so if those are priorities I'd give the left coast the nod.


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## fusangite (Apr 13, 2005)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Left-wing locally, right-wing nationally!  It's a rather interesting dichotomy.
> 
> But really, Western Canadians are a rather...unique lot.
> 
> Yes, I can say that.  I grew up there.



I'd view them as being more anti-incumbent than right-wing nationally. BC and Saskatchewan just consistently vote at the federal level against whoever is running their province at the time (with a few very rare exceptions).


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## AIM-54 (Apr 14, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> I'd view them as being more anti-incumbent than right-wing nationally. BC and Saskatchewan just consistently vote at the federal level against whoever is running their province at the time (with a few very rare exceptions).




That's one interpretation certainly, but I haven't paid too much attention to Canadian politics in quite a few years, so my opinion probably isn't worth a heckuva lot.   

On the other hand, the orneriness certainly explains where I got it!


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## Y.O.Morales (Apr 14, 2005)

Damn, I forgot this thread (busy life). I'll try to catch up with everything.

*@ fusangite *  


> But I would still appreciate knowing what your criteria are for a place to live.



1. Efficient means of transportation (something we lack here in PR; either you have a car or you dont move anywhere).
2. Relatively good climate. Maybe I can get accustomed to low temperatures. As for rain, that's not a problem because here in PR rains a lot.
3. I dont want a totally urban life. I'm sick of traffic jams and advertisement floods: ads, posters, banners, highway signs, neon signs, etc. Almost everywhere you look here in PR there's a Verizon, or Coca Cola, or Toyota ad crap. Seriously, someone who has lived here can tell you that the thing has broke its limits.
4. Good University, both for me (in the field of design and computers) and for my girlfriend (in the field of English literature).
5. And of course, some obviously convenient things: decent living costs, decent crime rate, etc.

(In conclusion, somewhere between an urban and rural life. A place quiet enough with nice people, but not so far from a University, and that has public transportation so I can get around without depending on a car).

*@ kmdietri *  


> I would suggest you have a look at the University of Waterloo.



Aye (  ). I'll have a look.

*@ Khayman*


> I'd recommend Vancouver --- less pollution than Toronto, more tolerant than Calgary, better weather (despite the annoying winter rain), good transit, great scenery (mountains, forests, ocean), and some unbelievable restaurants.



Sounds like Vancouver is a good place (from your opinions and Internet photos and websites). I'll keep looking at it.

*@ Ambrus*


> On the other hand, Montreal has a wonderful European feel with an embarassing number of fun festivals to partake of.



Just like here (Puerto Rico). We have a gazillion holidays and enough excuses to party in each of them.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 14, 2005)

Y.O.Morales said:
			
		

> 1. Efficient means of transportation (something we lack here in PR; either you have a car or you dont move anywhere).
> 2. Relatively good climate. Maybe I can get accustomed to low temperatures. As for rain, that's not a problem because here in PR rains a lot.
> 3. I dont want a totally urban life. I'm sick of traffic jams and advertisement floods: ads, posters, banners, highway signs, neon signs, etc. Almost everywhere you look here in PR there's a Verizon, or Coca Cola, or Toyota ad crap. Seriously, someone who has lived here can tell you that the thing has broke its limits.
> 4. Good University, both for me (in the field of design and computers) and for my girlfriend (in the field of English literature).
> ...




Honestly, (and I can't believe I'm saying this), the University of Saskatchewan might be worth a look.  I don't know how they stack up in computers and design or english lit (they have a pretty good engineering and commerce schools and computer science program).  But it's a college town, with good public transit and a very low crime rate.  Of course, winters can be brutally cold.    Living costs are very decent, too even near the university.

You might also look at Queens in Kingston, Ontario, nice small town and a very good school.  I don't believe you'll run into the same traffic/living cost/advertising issues there as you would in other towns where there are very good Canadian schools (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal).


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## fusangite (Apr 14, 2005)

Y.O.Morales said:
			
		

> 1. Efficient means of transportation (something we lack here in PR; either you have a car or you dont move anywhere).
> 2. Relatively good climate. Maybe I can get accustomed to low temperatures. As for rain, that's not a problem because here in PR rains a lot.



Depending on the province, 50,000 to 100,000 is going to be your threshold for remotely decent public transit (ie. 7 days a week and transit past 6pm on Sundays). There are, I'm sure, a few exceptions but I'm not that aware of them. I only have in-depth knowledge of one province (BC) but I understand this is a pretty okay general rule. 

Now, that stated, there is only one city in BC with transit past 12:30am seven days a week: Vancouver. Thanks to recent provincial government funding initiatives, BC now has a total of five cities with both universities and decent transit: Kelowna (100,000), Kamloops (80,000), Prince George (80,000), Victoria (330,000) and Greater Vancouver (2 million). I know that Vancouver, Victoria and Prince George all have sufficiently established universities that they should meet your needs. However, if you're also looking for a decent climate, you're probably limited just to Vancouver (UNiversity of BC, Simon Fraser University), Victoria (University of Victoria) and Kelowna (UBC - Okanagan campus). 

Based on your current location and requirements for a decent climate with not too excessive a winter, your locations in BC are basically limited to Vancouver Island (Victoria is at the southern tip), the Lower Mainland (the area at the mouth of the Fraser River where Vancouver and its suburbs are situated) and the Okanagan Valley (Kelowna is at the centre). Anywhere else is going to have 3-5 months a year of snow on the ground and probably 3 months of temperatures below -10 celsius (14 farenheit).







> 3. I dont want a totally urban life. I'm sick of traffic jams and advertisement floods: ads, posters, banners, highway signs, neon signs, etc. Almost everywhere you look here in PR there's a Verizon, or Coca Cola, or Toyota ad crap. Seriously, someone who has lived here can tell you that the thing has broke its limits.



Well, in British Columbia, no billboards are permitted except in cities and on Indian reserves. Provincial law keeps them off highways except where the highway goes through expropriated Indian land. 

That stated, it is pretty easy in any BC community to lead a semi-rural life, except in Vancouver. Like any other metropolitian area with 500,000+ residents, there is just too much suburb between the city and the country to be able to get the best of both worlds. 

As for the rest of the country, I think that you're dealing with the same 3-5 months of snow 14 degrees or colder essentially anywhere you go in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec, the Territories and Newfoundland. I simply don't know enough about Nova Scotia, PEI and New Brunswick to say too much about the climate there. I understand that there are some favourable microclimates in Southern Alberta but cannot comment more. Hopefully, people who know about Calgary and Lethbridge (both of which have decent universities) can post. 

The only parts of Ontario you might find habitable is along the north coast of Lake Ontario west of Oshawa or on the Canada-US border near Detroit. I think the climate probably rules out the rest of the province. (And even a short distance inland from these places yields a significantly colder climate). I don't think Toronto really fits the bill for you when it comes to non-urban life. I don't know the situation in Windsor Ontario but I think you may find it worth a look -- it's slightly warmer than Toronto. Although Kingston sounds otherwise absolutely ideal for you -- pretty, semi-rural, well-regarded university, it is too far east and basically has Montreal's climate. 

So, my advice: find out what universities have programs for both you and your girlfriend. That will narrow things down pretty effectively. Then come back and ask us about the cities in which these universities are situated.


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## Turjan (Apr 14, 2005)

I heard that the area around Brock University in St. Catharines and Hamilton/Ontario is quite famous for their vineyards. That's not too far from Niagara Falls or from Toronto, and if they grow vine, the climate can't be too gross .


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## Amal Shukup (Apr 14, 2005)

Y.O.Morales said:
			
		

> 1. Efficient means of transportation (something we lack here in PR; either you have a car or you dont move anywhere).
> 2. Relatively good climate. Maybe I can get accustomed to low temperatures. As for rain, that's not a problem because here in PR rains a lot.
> 3. I dont want a totally urban life. I'm sick of traffic jams and advertisement floods: ads, posters, banners, highway signs, neon signs, etc. Almost everywhere you look here in PR there's a Verizon, or Coca Cola, or Toyota ad crap. Seriously, someone who has lived here can tell you that the thing has broke its limits.
> 4. Good University, both for me (in the field of design and computers) and for my girlfriend (in the field of English literature).
> 5. And of course, some obviously convenient things: decent living costs, decent crime rate, etc.




I'm a Toronto boy, and I would love to reccomend it. It DOES have some excellent qualities: The clincher for me is that it is one of the (if not THE) most multicultural cities in the world, teeming with top notch food, energy, and cultural experiences...

Good schools, good transportation (downtown)... 

*However *- we got the traffic thing ugly, and there's one (only one, but still) nasty patch o' neon down on the Gardiner (which you would never see if you don't drive).

Still, my REAL reccomendation is to echo someone's earlier suggestion of Waterloo:

1. Top Notch school (my brother went - computer science, mathematics and fine art. Yes, he's a freak), with a number of other not-bad schools very close by (lots of stuff for students to do, lots of affordable student housing, etc.).

2. Decent bus system (and not hard to live close to school/stuff)

3. Not a ridiculously high cost of living (unlike Toronto or Vancouver). You DO NOT want to know what rent costs in this city and BUYING something downtown is truly ugly _(Oh, the Condo signs SAY $150K, but that's for the bachelor in the basement between the laundry room and the furnace, and does NOT include the $300/month Condo Fees et al...)_

4. An easy bus away from Toronto when ya just HAVE to have world class Greek/Indian/Thai/Japanese/French/Italian/Spanish/Ethiopian/Russian/Persian/Middle-Eastern/Morrocan/...
_(You get the Idea)_ Cuisine, or see the Film Festival, Catch a real Museum/Art Gallery or see a nice concert...

5. Or go the other way and hang in Mennonite country (the opposite of Urban)

6. The Waterloo Computer Science degree is THE gold standard in this country. Also the top Ranked University in Canada overall, according to Maclean's yearly 'Guide to Canadian Universities' (only #2 last year). Also, a significant number of high tech companies maintain development/production facilities in the area (aided and abbetted by the regional goverment AND the University) simply to grab graduates and coop students when they finish baking...​
Hope you like our country!

A'Mal


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## Khayman (Apr 16, 2005)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Honestly, (and I can't believe I'm saying this), the University of Saskatchewan might be worth a look.   (...)




That, and Saskatoon is a pretty little city.  I've ruined my liver at more than one conference there...


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## Y.O.Morales (Apr 17, 2005)

Thanks everyone for these comments.



			
				fusangite said:
			
		

> I know that Vancouver, Victoria and Prince George all have sufficiently established universities that they should meet your needs. However, if you're also looking for a decent climate, you're probably limited just to Vancouver (UNiversity of BC, Simon Fraser University), Victoria (University of Victoria) and Kelowna (UBC - Okanagan campus).
> 
> So, my advice: find out what universities have programs for both you and your girlfriend. That will narrow things down pretty effectively. Then come back and ask us about the cities in which these universities are situated.




For now that's what I'll do; check the universities on those communities and also the Univ. of Waterloo. Then I'll come back and ask more based on my narrowed choices.


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## fusangite (Apr 17, 2005)

Y.O.Morales said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for these comments.
> 
> For now that's what I'll do; check the universities on those communities and also the Univ. of Waterloo. Then I'll come back and ask more based on my narrowed choices.



Waterloo is no warmer than any other universities along Lake Erie or Lake Ontario west of Oshawa so you might as well include those in the parameters of your search along with PEI, NS, NB.

We look forward to the next round of questions.


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## Daalbar (Apr 19, 2005)

Hey Y.O.

Thought you might like to know that today the Canadian government announced new initiatives to their immigration program -- part of which was geared toward encouraging foreign students to attend university in Canada...

The relevant pieces of proposed legislation include 1) allowing foreign students attending Canadian universities to work off-campus -- enabling you to get a job while pursuing your studies (other than serving as an RA or TA or some such for the institution itself) and 2) introducing a post-graduation work program that will enable students to stay on after completing their degrees and work for 1 year on a special work visa if you are in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver, but for 2 years if your job is in a "secondary" market.

It seems obvious to me that this is an effort to attract much of the international student body that used to consider US schools prior to the restrictions that came in after 9/11. Looks like Canada is aggressively going after this talent pool.

This is proposed legislation though, so keep your ears open -- with all the shenanigans that are currently going on with the Gomery inquiry there is no guarantee that the current government will last long enough to actually implement this plan.


Oh, and though I am a U of Toronto alum, sounds like you really should investigate Waterloo if you want to go into programming/computer sciences. One other bit of info about that school that may sway your thoughts is that in the recent annual international programming and computer science competition, Waterloo placed 4th in the world behind, I believe, schools from Shanghai, Moscow & St. Petersburg (which are big up an coming regions in the computer science world -- the US schools, who had dominated this competition until the late 90's could do no better this year than 17th). Waterloo has consistenly been near the top worldwide in these areas of concentration and as others have already stated, draws recruiters from all the powerhouse corporations like flies.


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## Majoru Oakheart (Apr 20, 2005)

As a side note, I had no idea how many people from Winnipeg posted on ENWorld.  Perhaps I should be a little more picky about what I post here.  *grin*


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## devilbat (Apr 21, 2005)

As another Winnipegger here at EnWorld, I guess it's safe to say that our long, cold winters breed a larger then average, per capita, gamer ratio.

As someone who is very "involved" in the Real Estate industry, I can say that the average sale price has indeed climbed to $130,000 over the last two years, from only 90K five short years ago.  Unfortunately, you can no longer get a 1600 sq. ft. home, with garage, small yard and finished basement, in a decent area, for $160,000.  That price has climbed in excess of the $200,000 range (generally speaking).  Still a great deal in comparison to almost every other Canadian city.

Anything under $75,000 in a decent area is a house that needs MAJOR renevations.  Side x sides are selling for more then that.  If you look at one of the areas with a poor reputation (West End, North End, Elmwood to a lesser extent), you'll still be able to find a pretty darn good house between 60-80K.  In our least desirable areas, a great house can be had for between 10-30K, but getting insurance is expensive, and I wouldn't walk around at night, and I'm no slouch.


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## HellHound (Apr 22, 2005)

I'm going to stick to Ontario for this, mostly, since most of my experience is in Ontario & Quebec, and you don't speak French (whereas I am quite fluent).

If you are looking at a tech-based program to go into, then the best bets are Toronto and Waterloo. Kitchener-Waterloo is an interesting city to live in, and isn't the huge urban environment that Toronto is. I happen to not like urban sprawl, that's why I live on 200 acres of land *near* a town of 1,800 persons. (see image, below).

Toronto approaches the size of a 'real' city, if that is what you like.

Personally, I'm also partial to Ottawa, but the tech programs aren't as solid in the two universities as in Toronto / Waterloo.

If you don't plan on getting a job, I really recommend also checking out the Maritimes. There are some beautiful cities and people there, as long as you don't exepct open minds towards sexuality for instance. However, the job market there is the most depressed you will find.


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## CarlZog (Apr 25, 2005)

HellHound said:
			
		

> If you don't plan on getting a job, I really recommend also checking out the Maritimes. There are some beautiful cities and people there, as long as you don't exepct open minds towards sexuality for instance. However, the job market there is the most depressed you will find.




Having spent some time in Nova Scotia, I'll second this. Gorgeous country great towns, friendly people.  Most of my time there was working on boats that were visiting, so I had never had to look for a local job there.

I spent a summer in Toronto too. It's a very nice city, but something about it didn't sit right with me. The place was too generic.

Most cities have a very distinct personality -- a heartbeat, if you will. If you're in Boston, you KNOW it. Same with New York, Miami, LA. But in Toronto, I felt like I'd been dropped into a comic book city. It had all the standard elements of any big city, but they all seemed as if they'd been manufactured intentionally to meet somebody's idea of a "typical big city"; there was nothing that was uniquely "Toronto".  Most of the people I met were very bland too.  (No offense to  locals on this list whom I didn't meet.)  Mind you, they were all nice enough, there just wasn't anything particularly interesting or comelling about them. And I'm pretty good at finding something interesting in just about everybody.

Carl


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## mojo1701 (Apr 25, 2005)

CarlZog said:
			
		

> I spent a summer in Toronto too. It's a very nice city, but something about it didn't sit right with me. The place was too generic.
> 
> Most cities have a very distinct personality -- a heartbeat, if you will. If you're in Boston, you KNOW it. Same with New York, Miami, LA. But in Toronto, I felt like I'd been dropped into a comic book city. It had all the standard elements of any big city, but they all seemed as if they'd been manufactured intentionally to meet somebody's idea of a "typical big city"; there was nothing that was uniquely "Toronto".  Most of the people I met were very bland too.  (No offense to  locals on this list whom I didn't meet.)  Mind you, they were all nice enough, there just wasn't anything particularly interesting or comelling about them. And I'm pretty good at finding something interesting in just about everybody.
> 
> Carl




The city was manufactured to be Anytown, USA.


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## CarlZog (Apr 25, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> The city was manufactured to be Anytown, USA.




I would actually believe that. It's definitely the feeling I got from the place. It even started to creep me out after a while.

Carl


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## mojo1701 (Apr 25, 2005)

CarlZog said:
			
		

> I would actually believe that. It's definitely the feeling I got from the place. It even started to creep me out after a while.
> 
> Carl




They've used the place as New York, Chicago, and a variety of other places I can't even begin to think of.

My dad's from Toronto, and lived there for most of his life (well, he moved there when he was two, and we moved to Brantford when he was... hmm... 13 years ago), so whenever we watch a movie, he'll point out if he can recognize a shot that is filmed somewhere in Toronto.


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## A'koss (Apr 26, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> 2. Vancouver is only more expensive when it comes to housing. Restaurant food is about the best value for money you're going to find anywhere on this continent north of the Rio Grande. Ditto for public utilities, transit and auto insurance. Groceries are cheaper too, unless you really like cheese. If you could somehow avoid paying rent, Vancouver would be the cheapest place in the country but once you factor rent in, it's the most expensive.



I'm really glad I bought my house before the market took off like a rocket. I think the value of my house has gone up at least 1/3 in the last two years (which means my property tax is happily following suit...). However, I don't get the impression that rental prices have gone up that much. I still think you can find fairly affordable apartments in Vancouver so long as you're not smack dab in the middle of Yaletown or Kits. There are some nice places in East Van and South Van (Marpole) which are quite affordable still.

I also want to touch upon how great the food is in Vancouver - especially over the last 10 years. So many good places out there now...  


> 03. In terms of cost of living, Vancouver, Ontario and Southern Alberta are probably the most expensive. However, the usual rule here is that cost of living varies inversely with the unemployment rate -- except in Vancouver where unemployment is fairly high and so is cost of living.



Actually, unemployement in BC is at something like a 20 year *low* right now. 

Cheers!


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## Steel_Wind (Apr 26, 2005)

Toronto is the Centre of the Universe.  There is Toronto and then there is the rest of the country.

They hate us for this attitude - but they hate it even more because deep down inside, they know we're right. 

Our largest university, UofT is the best and most prestigious in the country and we fund Masters students extremely well.

Kitchener-Waterloo nearby has an excellent Computer Sci program.

In the wonderfully trendy Centre of the Universe, rednecks are not allowed.  Republicans? Please stay south of the border (or choose Alberta, if you must).

[end]


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## ssampier (Apr 26, 2005)

I don't live in Canada, but I just wanted to say "Hi" anyway.

I'd love to visit B.C. since my aunt went there two summers ago and loved it (they said the tax was high, however). Toronto I've heard is nice as well, like an American city, but _cleaner_.

Eh?*

*hope I got that right.


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## Lonely Tylenol (Apr 26, 2005)

Celebrim said:
			
		

> Speaking as someone south of the border, [political comments removed].




Give us Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire, and you've got a deal.


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## Lonely Tylenol (Apr 26, 2005)

Turjan said:
			
		

> I heard that the area around Brock University in St. Catharines and Hamilton/Ontario is quite famous for their vineyards. That's not too far from Niagara Falls or from Toronto, and if they grow vine, the climate can't be too gross .




Not too bad.  The two lakes Ontario and Erie buffer the weather somewhat.  But the Niagara region is known for its ice wine...


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## fusangite (Apr 26, 2005)

A'koss said:
			
		

> I'm really glad I bought my house before the market took off like a rocket. I think the value of my house has gone up at least 1/3 in the last two years (which means my property tax is happily following suit...). However, I don't get the impression that rental prices have gone up that much. I still think you can find fairly affordable apartments in Vancouver so long as you're not smack dab in the middle of Yaletown or Kits. There are some nice places in East Van and South Van (Marpole) which are quite affordable still.



As below, I'm not comparing Vancouver now to Vancouver in the past; I'm comparing Vancouver to the rest of Canada. Vancouver's rents are higher than Toronto's and, I believe higher than those of any metropolitian area in Canada besides Calgary.







> Actually, unemployement in BC is at something like a 20 year *low* right now.



First of all, remember that in the past 20 years, government policy has very much affected this. You're only unemployed if you're eligible for EI or welfare. A minority of the homeless people begging on the streets in Vancouver are "unemployed." But more importantly, I'm not comparing BC's unemployment rate to BC in the past; I'm comparing to the rest of Canada. And for as long as I've been alive, BC has been above the national average.


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## Pielorinho (Apr 26, 2005)

*Moderator's Notes*:

No matter how hilarious you find another nation's politics, you're still not allowed to talk about them here.  I'll ask everyone to drop the politics part of this discussion and continue with talking about the interesting places in Canada.

Daniel


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## devilbat (Apr 26, 2005)

> Toronto is the Centre of the Universe. There is Toronto and then there is the rest of the country.




Typical Torontonian view




> They hate us for this attitude - but they hate it even more because deep down inside, they know we're right



. 

Well, you're half right.


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## fusangite (Apr 26, 2005)

I moved from Vancouver to Toronto. Toronto is, in all ways, superior to Vancouver, except for the lack of good avocadoes in the grocery stores in the winter.


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## Amal Shukup (Apr 27, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> The city was manufactured to be Anytown, USA.




Ridiculous.

Toronto doesn't have A uniquely Toronto persona. It has SEVERAL personas. Many. It is described as a city of neighborhoods - each with it's own feel. There's also a faiyly hard demarcation between where people live (and live/work) and where they just WORK. Downtown core? Bay Street, King and Yonge, Eaton Centre, Town Hall?  Nobody lives there - they're just big chunks (of clean, crime free) concrete where millions of people sit in cubicles during daylight hours, and they pretty much roll up the sidewalks late in the evening. Of course it's largely bereft of personality.

But that's NOT 'Toronto'. Toronto 'starts' a few blocks North, West and East of this core: the Beaches, or Queen West, or the Annex, or even Parkdale, or High Park, or Harborfront, or the Junction, or Bloor West Village or the Danforth...

ALL of which are brimming in personality and energy and life. None resembles the others. All great places to live, work, hang out.

Anytown USA? Bite me. Your BEST towns WISH they were this cool (okay, IMHO, you got some cool cities down there too - but don't diss my town, dudes.)

A'Mal


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## mojo1701 (Apr 28, 2005)

Amal Shukup said:
			
		

> Ridiculous.
> 
> *snip
> 
> ...




I was just kidding. It was meant as a joke towards all the films that are produced there, but take place somewhere else.


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## Amal Shukup (Apr 28, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> I was just kidding. It was meant as a joke towards all the films that are produced there, but take place somewhere else.




Well, fair enough. Musta had my 'take things personally' filters set too low again. Hate it when I do that.  

By way of apology, I will now 'fess up that two of my favourite places on earth are San Francisco and N'awlins...

As an aside, I went out to a film this evening (oh yeah, gotta sneak peak at HHGttG, did I), and passed at LEAST three film crews doing their thing. Mighta been a fourth setting up.

A'Mal


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## Arnwyn (Apr 28, 2005)

Amal Shukup said:
			
		

> Anytown USA? Bite me. Your BEST towns WISH they were this cool (okay, IMHO, you got some cool cities down there too - but don't diss my town, dudes.)





> Musta had my 'take things personally' filters set too low again. Hate it when I do that.



_Way_ too low. Especially when it was somebody from _Brantford, Ontario_ who made the "Anytown USA" comment...


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## mojo1701 (Apr 28, 2005)

arnwyn said:
			
		

> _Way_ too low. Especially when it was somebody from _Brantford, Ontario_ who made the "Anytown USA" comment...




Hey, hey, hey!

Did your town produce one of the greatest hockey players ever? And the telephone. Yeah, that's right.

But I was born in Toronto, and I love it.


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## devilbat (Apr 28, 2005)

I hate to admit it, but I love to visit Toronto.  Great city, plenty to do, lots of action.  NHL Hockey (when the players decide to come back), Major League Baseball, and it's a great place to watch the visiting NBA teams.  I wouldn't want to live there, mind you.  I fear that the "We are the centre of the world" attitude is contageous.


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## mojo1701 (Apr 28, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I fear that the "We are the centre of the world" attitude is contageous.




Ever heard "The Toronto Song" by the Arrogant Worms? I've gotta find it.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Ever heard "The Toronto Song" by the Arrogant Worms? I've gotta find it.




AUGH!  Everyone makes that error.  It's not a Worms song, it's by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, which is commonly confused with the more well-known Arrogant Worms.

If you just Google "The Toronto Song" you'll wind up with the lyrics.


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## fusangite (Apr 28, 2005)

Guys,

I've just arrived in Winnipeg for a conference. It's between -1 and +2 (30 and 35) and there are snow flurries. Snow flurries.


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## Sebastian Francis (Apr 28, 2005)

Malovech said:
			
		

> Do not go to the Maritimes, unless you like crippling unemployment, the highest obesity rate in all of Canada and the most boring urban centres this side of Winnipeg. Only simpletons live in the Maritimes, sorry Jesus_marley but you are so far off it ain't even funny.




"Don't live in Halifax because of its high obesity rate."

Boy, I have to hand it to you, Malovech: that is one of the most idiotic things I've *ever* read on the internet.  Thanks for that!


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Guys,
> 
> I've just arrived in Winnipeg for a conference. It's between -1 and +2 (30 and 35) and there are snow flurries. Snow flurries.




Umm, so?  Sounds like the Western Canada I know and love.

Heck, I was camping one Victoria Day weekend down near Regina and we got seriously snowed on.  3-4 inches and it was something like -10C, -15C.  It had been a warm week prior to that, too.


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## Arnwyn (Apr 28, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> I've just arrived in Winnipeg for a conference. It's between -1 and +2 (30 and 35) and there are snow flurries. Snow flurries.



Uh-huh. And? There was a _blizzard_ in the Detroit area.

We've been golfing the last couple of weeks in Winnipeg - a colder week in April hardly makes it anything worth posting about.


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## devilbat (Apr 28, 2005)

> I've just arrived in Winnipeg for a conference. It's between -1 and +2 (30 and 35) and there are snow flurries. Snow flurries.




Could be worse.  It's -3 with Snow in Calgary.


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## Sebastian Francis (Apr 28, 2005)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Our largest university, UofT is the best and most prestigious in the country




Not quite.  McGill consistently ranks ahead of the U of Toronto.  McGill #1, U of T #2, and UBC #3.


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## Arnwyn (Apr 28, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Hey, hey, hey!
> 
> Did your town produce one of the greatest hockey players ever? And the telephone. Yeah, that's right.



Actually, d00d, I was backing you up. His response to you was:


> Anytown USA? Bite me. Your BEST towns WISH they were this cool (okay, IMHO, you got some cool cities down there too



"Your best towns"? "You got some cool cities _down there_"? Man, you're from Brantford. "Down there"??


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## Arnwyn (Apr 28, 2005)

Sebastian Francis said:
			
		

> Not quite.  McGill consistently ranks ahead of the U of Toronto.  McGill #1, U of T #2, and UBC #3.



Using which ranking? _Maclean's_? I sure hope not.


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## Sebastian Francis (Apr 28, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> 4. Celebrim, are you aware that Saskatchewan has been run almost continuously by socialists since 1944 and that Manitoba has just re-elected the socialists to a second term in office in a row (their 5th I believe since 1965)? They're red states but not in the way you think they are. You see, in Canada, being rural doesn't have a whole lot to do with being right-wing.




You are correct, sir.  But bear in mind that Celebrim seems to be one of these morally self-righteous, arrogant urbanites who dismiss all of western Canada with a wave of their chubby hands and continue to think of new ways to kiss Quebec's ass.


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## Khayman (Apr 28, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Guys,
> 
> I've just arrived in Winnipeg for a conference. It's between -1 and +2 (30 and 35) and there are snow flurries. Snow flurries.




Should've been here last week. It was +20 C. 
Hopefully, this system will be on its way to Ontario soon...


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## Khayman (Apr 28, 2005)

Majoru Oakheart said:
			
		

> As a side note, I had no idea how many people from Winnipeg posted on ENWorld. Perhaps I should be a little more picky about what I post here. *grin*




Kinda spooky, actually...




			
				devilbat said:
			
		

> Anything under $75,000 in a decent area is a house that needs MAJOR renevations.  Side x sides are selling for more then that.  If you look at one of the areas with a poor reputation (West End, North End, Elmwood to a lesser extent), you'll still be able to find a pretty darn good house between 60-80K.  In our least desirable areas, a great house can be had for between 10-30K, but getting insurance is expensive, and I wouldn't walk around at night, and I'm no slouch.




Our new house is in the West End.  Needs a bit of work but it's in pretty good shape --- and still close to my beloved granola belt.  Cross Portage to Wolseley and the houses are twice the price but half the weird.  I wish I had been in the position to buy four years ago, when a house that's going now for $160k was only $85k.   

Still, I won't complain. A friend in Burnaby has a comparable house and it ran her $220,000. Eeek!


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## fusangite (Apr 29, 2005)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Umm, so?  Sounds like the Western Canada I know and love.



The one I know and love has cherry blossoms in February.


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