# Tuesdays are Supernatural!



## Steverooo (Sep 13, 2005)

Tonight is Supernatural.  Series Premier...


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## Ranger REG (Sep 13, 2005)

???

I thought it is following _The Gilmore Girls_ on Tuesday night.

Tonight is an all-new episode of _Prison Break._


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## Angel Tarragon (Sep 13, 2005)

> *Ranger REG*
> I thought it is following _The Gilmore Girls_ on Tuesday night.



It is.


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## Desdichado (Sep 13, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> ???
> 
> I thought it is following _The Gilmore Girls_ on Tuesday night.
> 
> Tonight is an all-new episode of _Prison Break._



Uh... today is Tuesday, REG...


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## Henry (Sep 13, 2005)

Not for REG it wasn't -- he was in Hawaii when he posted that, and the other poster was kinda... thinking ahead of time.


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## Mercule (Sep 13, 2005)

Doh!  Game night.  Gotta remember to set the VCR when I get home.


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## stevelabny (Sep 13, 2005)

And just in case my low expectations for Supernatural and this season of Gilmore Girls isnt enough...

Tonight is also the premiere of former Angel star David Boreanaz's Bones on Fox.

Yikes.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 13, 2005)

Henry said:
			
		

> Not for REG it wasn't -- he was in Hawaii when he posted that, and the other poster was kinda... thinking ahead of time.



Exactly.


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## Just_Hal (Sep 14, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Exactly.




DVR already set----do not know what to expect from both Supernatural and Bones

BUT

House season premiere is tonight----HooHaa


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## Crothian (Sep 14, 2005)

What the heck is Supernatural?  And it has a midnight shotime?  Gilmore girls here is on at 11, no idea what follows that though


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## Just_Hal (Sep 14, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> What the heck is Supernatural?  And it has a midnight shotime?  Gilmore girls here is on at 11, no idea what follows that though





9pm here in EST on WB


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## Crothian (Sep 14, 2005)

Just_Hal said:
			
		

> 9pm here in EST on WB




I found it, 11pm firdays here on the WB


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## Ranger REG (Sep 14, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> What the heck is Supernatural?  And it has a midnight shotime?  Gilmore girls here is on at 11, no idea what follows that though



It's Hardy Boys and Ghostbusters rolled into one.

Some have rumored the earlier title was supposed to be _Route 666,_ like a horror spin of some old show, _Route 66._


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## Captain Tagon (Sep 14, 2005)

I'm loving it so far.


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## WayneLigon (Sep 14, 2005)

Pretty darn cool. THe Woman in White legend, salt as a barrier, the cool banter.. I liked it a lot. Reminds me totally of modern day CoC.

Favorite quote: Of _course _ you should be scared of the dark! You know what's out there!


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## Captain Tagon (Sep 14, 2005)

Now I'm really looking forward to next week.


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## CrusaderX (Sep 14, 2005)

I enjoyed it, and I'll tune in next week.  The guy who played Dean is much better here then he was in Smallville.  And the special effects at the end of the Woman In White plot were just plain creepy!  So far, cool show.


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## Ao the Overkitty (Sep 14, 2005)

Its got potential.  If nothing else, it is a good place to steal ideas from for a modern horror game.


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## Dagger75 (Sep 14, 2005)

Whats up with all you pansy girly "men" (i use the term loosley) doing watching Gilmore Girls?


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## Captain Tagon (Sep 14, 2005)

Because good television is good television?


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## Umbran (Sep 14, 2005)

Nice banter, a sibling relationship that might have some depth inthe long run - I think the show was worth at least a couple more episodes, to see how (or if) it develops.


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## Jamdin (Sep 14, 2005)

I enjoyed the premiere of Supernatural and hopes it last for more than one season. I really liked the comment about the pentagram being a protection against evil. The end was totally awesome.


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## The_Universe (Sep 14, 2005)

I kinda liked it. It wasn't fantastic, or anything, but it wasn't horrible.


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## Crothian (Sep 14, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> I enjoyed it, and I'll tune in next week.  The guy who played Dean is much better here then he was in Smallville.  And the special effects at the end of the Woman In White plot were just plain creepy!  So far, cool show.




Who was he on Smallville?


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## Crothian (Sep 14, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I kinda liked it. It wasn't fantastic, or anything, but it wasn't horrible.




Sadly, that's about as good as it gets in TV these days....


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## CrusaderX (Sep 14, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Who was he on Smallville?




Lana Lang's boyfriend and the Smallville High assistant football coach.


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## devilbat (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree with those who said it's worth watching a few more times, to see if it goes anywhere.  I liked effects, the characters were pretty good.  I found the end a little predictable, but a cool way to end the episode.


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## danzig138 (Sep 14, 2005)

It looks like it might have some potential. I thought the two guys worked well together. I'll certainly give it a few more episodes.


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## Welverin (Sep 14, 2005)

*whelp I missed a bit at the end...*

So my vcr cut out as someone was in a car looking at a map, anything more to it that I should know?

p.s. I found it amusing that both this and Bones used Mulder and Scully references.


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## takyris (Sep 14, 2005)

Liked it a bunch. Been awhile since anything was edited well enough to scare me on television, and while the plot was formulaic, I personally care more about whether the formula is done well than if it's done at all.

Liked the character interaction, and definitely liked the idea of the show -- it read, for me, like a d20 Modern campaign, whatever the first setting in the book is. Not Urban Arcana or the psychics one, but the "Evil Stuff is Out There, and You Have to Kill It" setting.

It's on my season pass list for now. 

Spoiler: 



Spoiler



I knew she was dead as soon as I saw the cookies and the note. You knew he was getting back in that car at some point, but I wasn't sure how until I saw the cookies and the note. It could've been her leaving him, or it could have been him blowing the law school interview because he was tired and stressed, or it could have been him choosing to go after acing the interview, just because he wanted to see if he COULD have done it... but once I saw the cookies, I knew she was severely and significantly dead. That said, the blood drop onto the face still freaked me out, despite the fact that the burning woman on the ceiling was, for me, the least scary part of the show.


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## Welverin (Sep 14, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> Spoiler:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What on earth are you talking about here? it sounds like two separate things.


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## stevelabny (Sep 14, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> Whats up with all you pansy girly "men" (i use the term loosley) doing watching Gilmore Girls?




Ooh, that resembles me. I watch Gilmore Girls in addition to my manly shows. I also game AND am a diehard sports fan.  I also read comics and used to watch wrestling and soap operas. 

I don't care what other people's little gender hang-ups and expectations are, I like certain things and will take it where I find it. 

I love snarky, quick-witted clever dialogue. Most of the early WB shows had it. Heck, there was even a season or two when 7th Heaven was watchable. And the dialogue and delivery on Gilmore Girls is mostly amazing, except when the writers are trying so hard to be clever that they get too obscure, or contradict their previous witty banter.

To segue to Supernatural.. Did any other Gilmore Girls fans find it incredibly distracting that the guy who played Dean on Gilmore Girls and compete with a guy named Jess was Sam here, with a brother named Dean and a girlfriend named Jess? ACK. One day someone will explain how things like that don't get caught and altered to prevent confusion.

The guys seem to have decent brotherly chemistry. But two-person cast shows NEVER EVER work for me. I don't know how long they plan to keep going with monster-of-the-week, but if they don't pick up some allies, some enemies, or their dad soon, I know I will get bored. 

The sfx when the woman in white faded away were over-done, when you don't have a great budget, you're always best off avoiding silly stuff like that. 

But what bothered me most was the very last scene. After Sam's gf burned away on the ceiling, the show should either have just ended with him quietly driving away with his brother or come up with one more scene that was slightly less pointless and cliche than what we got. 

Now that I can watch stuff at will, my bar has been lowered enough to keep watching shows that are only ok. So I'll probably stick with this for a bit to see what happens


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## Desdichado (Sep 14, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Lana Lang's boyfriend and the Smallville High assistant football coach.



And my wife pointed out that he used to be Sammy's brother on _Days of Our Lives_.  Sadly, when she said that, I recognized him.    

And it'll be confusing that _he's_ the actor playing Dean instead of Sammy, and the other guy plays Dean on _Gilmore Girls_...

I quite enjoyed it.  I really like the atmosphere; like _The Mummy_, it's kinda tongue in cheek horror.  We'll probably watch it regularly.  Then again, _The Gilmore Girls_ is my wife's favorite show EVAR, and it's on right before it.  All we have to do is not change the channel.


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## devilbat (Sep 14, 2005)

> if they don't pick up some allies, some enemies, or their dad soon, I know I will get bored.




Since "finding Dad" is the storyline of the show, I'm sure it will be a while before that happens.  As far as enemies go, I'm sure we'll be hearing an awful lot more about the "thing that killed mom". Especially since it seems to be hunting them.


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## Desdichado (Sep 14, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Since "finding Dad" is the storyline of the show, I'm sure it will be a while before that happens.  As far as enemies go, I'm sure we'll be hearing an awful lot more about the "thing that killed mom". Especially since it seems to be hunting them.



Or it's specifically tied to Sam somehow.  I don't think it was coincidence that Mom died in Sam's room with just baby Sam for company.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 14, 2005)

So - I liked it.  But I'm a total wuss when it comes to anything "scary"... especially anything "scary" that says ghosts can actually hurt me.  *shudders8  Thanks to that show, I've spent the entire morning looking over my shoulder in my empty apartment.

--QueenD (queen of doppelgangers, oozes, and wuss-bags  ).


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## Kaledor (Sep 14, 2005)

I really liked this first episdoe.
Sufficiently creepy, good intro to the characters, enough hinted at plot lines and background to run a couple of episodes...  I'm definitely gonna check out the season.

And I glad someone finally placed the actor of the younger brother. I knew the older one was LL's boyfriend from Smallville, but I had only seen Gilmore Girls a few times and couldn't place him right away.


Question for everyone. My WB cut the end of the show off. We see the puddle of water after the climax of the story a little bit of explanation on how they "solved the mystery", but then the show cut away to commercial and started a new program...  Did I miss much?

I see that WB is replaying it on Thursday (in my area), so I'm gonna try and catch it again... but did I miss minutes, seconds, hours?? 
Just wondering.


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## Desdichado (Sep 14, 2005)

Kaledor said:
			
		

> Question for everyone. My WB cut the end of the show off. We see the puddle of water after the climax of the story a little bit of explanation on how they "solved the mystery", but then the show cut away to commercial and started a new program...  Did I miss much?



Yes!  



Spoiler



They find clues in the father's journal that he's in a small town in Colorado, but Sam says he really has to get home--law school interview and all that.  Dean takes him home, he walks in, finds his girlfriend up on the ceiling dripping blood on his forehead, then she bursts into flames, all exactly as his mother had years ago.  Next scene is outside the apartment complex, firemen are wandering around doing firefightery stuff, and we see Sam checking out Dean's armament in the back seat, obviously totally committed to re-embracing the supernatural hunter career path after all.


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 14, 2005)

Hmmmm...looks like another added to the list...of potentials.


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## WayneLigon (Sep 14, 2005)

Kaledor said:
			
		

> Question for everyone. My WB cut the end of the show off. We see the puddle of water after the climax of the story a little bit of explanation on how they "solved the mystery", but then the show cut away to commercial and started a new program...  Did I miss much?




Joshua beat me to it  Obviously this has something to do with Sam, definately.


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## Desdichado (Sep 14, 2005)

Speaking of which, are "women in white" supposed to be some kind of supernatural phenomena?  If so, I've never heard of it.  The story is very similar to the folktale/ghost story of La Llorona, but I've never heard that that was anything other than a unique story.


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## WayneLigon (Sep 14, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Speaking of which, are "women in white" supposed to be some kind of supernatural phenomena?  If so, I've never heard of it.  The story is very similar to the folktale/ghost story of La Llorona, but I've never heard that that was anything other than a unique story.




This link has some info and links to other places. A hitchhiking woman in white who disappears is a common ghost tale.


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## Super Girl (Sep 14, 2005)

The show is suppoused to be big on google-fu, everything that they toss out there, like the Hellgate, and the haunted house they mentioned early on have some history, and they expect to be continuing on with that, at least according to interviews.  Nothing they come up against is suppoused to be just a spur of the moment, no basis in local legends type thing, its all suppoused to have something behind it history/folklore wise.


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## takyris (Sep 14, 2005)

Yeah, the ones I've heard usually involve a woman coming home from a party, or wearing her wedding dress, and when the driver gets her home, it turns out that she died a long time ago... the usual. 

Welverin: Not sure what you mean by "What on earth am I talking about?" I'm talking about the last few minutes of the episode... Sp: 



Spoiler



I knew that they wouldn't get to the end of the episode without getting Sam back together with his brother, but I didn't know if he was going to botch his law-school interview or what. But as soon as I saw that Jess had left cookies and a nice note (rather than an angry break-up letter or something), I knew that she was dead. Despite me being sure that that was what was going to happen, I was still spooked by the blood-dripping onto his face, even though the actual "woman pinned to the ceiling and then catching fire" effect was, for me, the weakest part of the show.

So... generally referring to the events of the last few minutes of the episode.


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## Desdichado (Sep 14, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> Yeah, the ones I've heard usually involve a woman coming home from a party, or wearing her wedding dress, and when the driver gets her home, it turns out that she died a long time ago... the usual.



Yeah, I've heard a few varieties of ghost hitchhiker before, but this gal seems to be an amalgamation of that story plus La Llorona; the Indian girl who killed her own kids in spite when her Spanish Lord lover decided to marry someone else instead.

I like that they used real folklore as the basis here; it made it resonate more with me.  The details were sketchy, but the whole thing seemed kinda eerily familiar.

Anyway, I thought the horror aspects of it were relatively tame, but my wife; who's not as into supernatural horror as I am, had nightmares as a result of the show.  She thought it was pretty disturbing, although in a fun way.


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## Fast Learner (Sep 14, 2005)

This refined Google search reveals quite a lot of "woman in white" stories that bear more than a passing resemblence to La Llorna, fwiw.

I was extremely irritated by the opening dialogue between the brothers, where they do that horrible explanation of the situation by telling each other things they already know full well, very basic things about their childhood. At least when you tell a stranger it doesn't come off so awkwardly.

Otherwise, pretty enjoyable. I'll certainly check out one or two more.


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## Agamon (Sep 15, 2005)

Meh.  It was okay.  We'll see, I guess.


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## Blue_Kryptonite (Sep 15, 2005)

Try the alternate term "White Lady" too. We have one here that got made into a small film a few years back.

I wish I could watch this series, it sounds good. But, alas, WB is exclusive to cable, and my Dish Network means far too much to me now.


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## takyris (Sep 16, 2005)

What are you talking about? Dish Network can get you like ten WB stations, depending on the package you want. If you can get ABC or NBC, you can almost always get the WB, except in rare cases where there isn't a local WB station in your area and thus isn't covered under the local package.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 16, 2005)

Came on tonight for me (Thursday) and I enjoyed it.


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## devilbat (Sep 16, 2005)

> I was extremely irritated by the opening dialogue between the brothers, where they do that horrible explanation of the situation by telling each other things they already know full well, very basic things about their childhood.




Yeah, that bugged me too.


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## Welverin (Sep 16, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> Welverin: Not sure what you mean by "What on earth am I talking about?" I'm talking about the last few minutes of the episode... >snip spoilers<




Ah, there we go. I was watching something else so when this started I hit the record button a couple two three times to record for an hour and when I watched it later the last thing I saw was 



Spoiler



the brothers just leaving the house after the ghost got sucked into hell and a short glimpse of someone looking at a map


, so it sounded like you were talking about the beginning, but somethings were off, which was just plain confusing.

Worst part is I was all prepared to catch the end of the reair tonight, but made the mistake of flipping to NBC and seeing that there was an episode of scrubs on and didn't switch back in time.


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## Blue_Kryptonite (Sep 16, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> What are you talking about? Dish Network can get you like ten WB stations, depending on the package you want. If you can get ABC or NBC, you can almost always get the WB, except in rare cases where there isn't a local WB station in your area and thus isn't covered under the local package.





We have a local WB, they're part of some exclusivity deal with Frontier Dish, so that WB is advertized as "Exclusively on Time-Warner Cable". I have the America's 180 package. Everything but the HBO and Showtime familes.


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## Kaledor (Sep 16, 2005)

I was able to catch the reair last night and I'm very upset that my WB cut off the ending when it aired it the first time. There was a good 5-10 minutes of material AND the actual kick-off to the rest of the season-- those last few minutes make the show not just about finding a lost parent, but now it's about personal revenge for the younger brother.
Ah well, at least I got to catch it on reair.

'Course, I was so excited about what to me was "Deleted Scenes" or an "Extended Cut", that I completely missed the note and cookies. I saw Sam open the door to his appartment after getting out of Dean's car, but then the next thing I saw was him walking into the bedroom with a cookie!

So, was I momentarily blind with excitement, or did my WB cut another scene?

Do we actually get to read the note from Jess or is it just implied that it must be from her? Or is it possibly from the mystery man that is in the very beginning?


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## Desdichado (Sep 16, 2005)

Kaledor said:
			
		

> Do we actually get to read the note from Jess or is it just implied that it must be from her? Or is it possibly from the mystery man that is in the very beginning?



That mystery man would have been a little too cute for my taste; the note was on a plate of cookies that said "I missed you" or "I love you" or something like that.

Waitaminute... am I forgetting something?  What mystery man are you talking about, anyway?  The only mysterious man at the very beginning is Sam and Dean's father, who we don't see except in the 22 years ago prologue, or am I forgetting something?


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## Einan (Sep 16, 2005)

At the very beginning of the episode the mother goes out to investigate the noise, and we see a shadowy figure standing in the window.  The mother says something to him and he raises his finger to his mouth and says, "Shhhh...".  We are meant to think it's the father, as the mother did.  However, a split second later we see the father sitting in an easy chair looking tired, and jolts upright when he hears his wife scream.  He goes into check on the baby, is relieved that it's okay, sees the blood on the pillow and looks up.  

I almost missed the fact that the shadowy figure wasn't the dad.  Very subtle and very creepy when you think about it.  All in all, for a pilot episode, it was pretty darn good.  I'll definitely be watching again.

Einan


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## Kaledor (Sep 16, 2005)

Einan said:
			
		

> At the very beginning of the episode the mother goes out to investigate the noise, and we see a shadowy figure standing in the window.  The mother says something to him and he raises his finger to his mouth and says, "Shhhh...".  We are meant to think it's the father, as the mother did.




Yup, *that* mystery man. Though I think he was standing over the crib looking down at Sammy. It's the "thing" that the dad has been hunting all along. And when you look at the wall of the hotel room that the dad rented in the Jerico, it appears that the dad believes the man to be the/a Devil. We see a couple of pieces of paper on the wall.  Dean is looking at the missing men photos, while Sam is investigating the other side of the room... he glances over some drawing of demons and such, some latin phrases that I don't recall (something about burning, IIRC), and then finally Sam finds the info on the Woman in White and Constance.


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## Desdichado (Sep 16, 2005)

Einan said:
			
		

> At the very beginning of the episode the mother goes out to investigate the noise, and we see a shadowy figure standing in the window.  The mother says something to him and he raises his finger to his mouth and says, "Shhhh...".  We are meant to think it's the father, as the mother did.  However, a split second later we see the father sitting in an easy chair looking tired, and jolts upright when he hears his wife scream.  He goes into check on the baby, is relieved that it's okay, sees the blood on the pillow and looks up.



Oh, duh, yeah.  Sorry, I forgot about that scene for a moment there.


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## Mad Hatter (Sep 16, 2005)

I thought that initial scene with the Mystery Guy was very well done.  I think it adds a whole new dimension.


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## takyris (Sep 16, 2005)

Welverin: Aha! Didn't realize that the last few minutes were cut in so many places. Sorry about that! 

Re: Mystery Man. Oh yeah. While "woman pinned, dead, to ceiling, and then catching fire" struck me as silly rather than frightening, the stuff up to that point in the first few minutes was immensely scary. Mom realizing that that wasn't dad upstairs in the baby's room saying "Shhhh...." is... well, it's most likely the fact that I've got a 10 month old baby myself, but I pretty much freaked right at that point.

And the show can now zing us any time it wants by having blood drop onto somebody's face. 

(Agree on the awful "As you know, brother" dialogue -- clumsy as heck, and I'd have liked to see it handled better, but some form of it was necessary to get the rules established. My gut feeling is that if you could be a fly on the wall, you'd have heard a heated discussion about that particular bit of conversation among the writers, and the version that made it to the screen was the one that was sort of a compromise that left nobody really happy.)


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## Welverin (Sep 16, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> Welverin: Aha! Didn't realize that the last few minutes were cut in so many places. Sorry about that!




No need to be sorry, I appreciate finding out what I missed.


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## jaerdaph (Sep 16, 2005)

Did anyone else get the impression that (possible spoiler) 



Spoiler



Sammy and Dean's father actually died in the fire, and the mystery man scooped up the boys outside, and has probably been pretending to be their father?


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## Einan (Sep 16, 2005)

Hmm.  It's probably too early in the series to speculate too heavily, but it could be.  I also thought it odd that the same MO occurred with the main connection being Sammy.  Is he the source or is there a reason he was so closely connected to the two murders?

At any rate, here's hoping Supernatural doesn't get cancelled before we get some closure!


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## warlord (Sep 16, 2005)

This show is gonna fill the void left by Buffy.


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## Desdichado (Sep 16, 2005)

I agree; it had a very Buffy vibe to it.  Maybe a bit grittier, but otherwise similar.


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## Kaledor (Sep 16, 2005)

Einan said:
			
		

> Hmm.  It's probably too early in the series to speculate too heavily, but it could be.  I also thought it odd that the same MO occurred with the main connection being Sammy.  Is he the source or is there a reason he was so closely connected to the two murders?




Those were my thoughts too.
I'm leaning towards Sam being the connection to both events.  
Now what if the mystery man IS Sam's father... Perhaps Sam is the son of a demon. He DID do well on his LSATs and isn't there some connection between law and the devil  
Seriously, though, perhaps we are meant to think that Sam is supernaturally smart... meaning he and Dean might not share the same father.  Now why would Sam's father (mystery man) want to kill the women in Sam's life... no clue.  But it's a theory in progress.


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## stevelabny (Sep 16, 2005)

To help some of you guys out...

The show wasn't cut in some places (first airing) ... It was cut by your vcr, or your incorrect usage of Tivo, or possibly even an old Tivo model.

The original airing ran 1:07. My Tivo taped the whole thing, and I was very baffled looking at the 1:07 the entire time, but this isn't the first show to have a slightly longer first episode.

If the second time around certain scenes were missing and the show fit into an hour slot... the network shaved stuff to get it to fit. 

Mystery solved.


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## Welverin (Sep 16, 2005)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> Did anyone else get the impression that (possible spoiler)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm, I was going to ask earlier if anyone thought the guy sitting in the chair watching tv at the beginning when the mother check the living room looked dead to anyone else (thought I saw a bandage on the arm), but then the father got up later and I blew it off.



			
				stevelabny said:
			
		

> The original airing ran 1:07. My Tivo taped the whole thing, and I was very baffled looking at the 1:07 the entire time, but this isn't the first show to have a slightly longer first episode.




Ah-ha! I was wondering if it was extra long, thanks for the clarification.


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## Gog (Sep 17, 2005)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> Did anyone else get the impression that (possible spoiler)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Man that is exactly what I thought. Spoiler -->



Spoiler



It really looked like the dad got burned up, then the guy that grabed them seemed to come from the wrong direction. Though I can't figure  why he would train them to kill spookies if that's what happened.



So you think we can drop the spoilers now?


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## Ranger REG (Sep 17, 2005)

warlord said:
			
		

> This show is gonna fill the void left by Buffy.



The genders are wrong, but they got the blonde right.

Hopefully there will be some lesbionic witches.


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## jaerdaph (Sep 17, 2005)

Gog said:
			
		

> Man that is exactly what I thought. Spoiler -->It really looked like the dad got burned up, then the guy that grabed them seemed to come from the wrong direction. Though I can't figure  why he would train them to kill spookies if that's what happened.
> So you think we can drop the spoilers now?




Exactly! A guy passed out in front of the TV doesn't strike me as the type who would go on to become Buffy the Vampire Slayer. 

Yeah, I think we can drop the spoilers. I'm either way way off, or I just ruined the series meta plot story arc in the first week of the show.


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## Abraxas (Sep 17, 2005)

Well I enjoyed it - so that means it will be cancelled before the end of the season


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## CrusaderX (Sep 17, 2005)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> Exactly! A guy passed out in front of the TV doesn't strike me as the type who would go on to become Buffy the Vampire Slayer.




A skinny blonde clueless cheerleader doesn't seem like the type to become Buffy the Vampire Slayer either, but...


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## Crothian (Sep 17, 2005)

ll, looks like I get to see the pilot only becasue they are havign a special airing of it, but looking ahead in the TV schedule my station is not going to carry this show.  Here's looking forward to the DVD!!


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## Dr. Talos (Sep 17, 2005)

The Dad is an ex-Marine...I don't see any issues with being passed out in front of a TV.

All in all I thought the show was great...a bit goofy at a couple of points...but had enough tense moments to make up for it


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## Crothian (Sep 17, 2005)

so far it seems like the best of the new shows this season I've seen


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## Crothian (Sep 17, 2005)

stevelabny said:
			
		

> The original airing ran 1:07. My Tivo taped the whole thing, and I was very baffled looking at the 1:07 the entire time, but this isn't the first show to have a slightly longer first episode.




What did they shave?  My station only aired the hour version, I didn't get the cool extra scenes.


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## Steverooo (Sep 17, 2005)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> Did anyone else get the impression that (possible spoiler)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I DID wonder how Dad escaped the huge fireball, and then got downstairs and outside, so quickly... and "the mystery man" reminds me very much of Mimic.

P.S.:  And what's up with the objections over the initial post?  I posted on Tuesday (1:20 AM), and the show (and The Gillmore Girls) is on, on Tuesday (in my viewing area, anyway - and according to the Premieres listing)!


----------



## Steverooo (Sep 17, 2005)

*Oh, and By the Way,*

..._Anime Sola_, anyone?

Pleasant dreams, y'all (don't let the blood-drips hit you)!


----------



## Just_Hal (Sep 17, 2005)

I will keep watching it and see what happens.


----------



## Nighthawk (Sep 17, 2005)

I will do the same as Just Hal.


----------



## jaerdaph (Sep 17, 2005)

Dr. Talos said:
			
		

> The Dad is an ex-Marine...I don't see any issues with being passed out in front of a TV.




Yes, but that could just be what post fireball dad has told his children about his past. Remember, their mother died when Sam was a baby and Dean was four. 

Or not.


----------



## Kaledor (Sep 17, 2005)

stevelabny said:
			
		

> To help some of you guys out...
> 
> The show wasn't cut in some places (first airing) ... It was cut by your vcr, or your incorrect usage of Tivo, or possibly even an old Tivo model.
> 
> ...






Actually Mine WAS cut.
It started at 9:08 (no clue why) and at 10 they clipped the scene, went to commercial, and then started some sitcom. Which means if the episode was 7 min longer, then I missed about 15 minutes of material (which is about right, when I watched the reair on Thursday). It wasn't a VCR issue, b/c I was watching in real time


----------



## jaerdaph (Sep 17, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> I DID wonder how Dad escaped the huge fireball, and then got downstairs and outside, so quickly... and "the mystery man" reminds me very much of Mimic.




I'm glad I'm not the only one who got that impression. 

Looking forward to next Tuesday when the boys meet up with a Wendigo.

Oh, and my Time Warner Cable DVR box recorded last Tuesday night's episode that went over the hour in its entirety.


----------



## Arnwyn (Sep 19, 2005)

I found it to be barely mediocre, with clumsy dialogue (as pointed out by other posters) as well as, for me, being predictable as hell. Virtually nothing surprised me, and I had the conclusion of the episode's ghost story and the episode itself figured out almost immediately.

I'll watch a couple more before I pass final judgement, though. It might get better.


----------



## takyris (Sep 19, 2005)

Maybe it's just having a baby myself (erk.. toddler, now, at 10 months old), but I had no trouble believing that the father of a young baby was passed out in front of the television...


----------



## Steverooo (Sep 20, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> Maybe it's just having a baby myself (erk.. toddler, now, at 10 months old), but I had no trouble believing that the father of a young baby was passed out in front of the television...




Hee, hee, hee, hee!  "Daddy funny!"


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 21, 2005)

"Wendigo" was darn good. It follows the various legends and it's creepy and cool. The realization of what they're up against... man, it's just like some of the old Call of Cthulhu games we did. Dean looks at his pistol "Well, this is useless.." with just that precise 'old adventurer' disgust.

And they also mention skinwalkers and Black Dogs. Too cool.


----------



## CrusaderX (Sep 21, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> "Wendigo" was darn good. It follows the various legends and it's creepy and cool. The realization of what they're up against... man, it's just like some of the old Call of Cthulhu games we did. Dean looks at his pistol "Well, this is useless.." with just that precise 'old adventurer' disgust.
> 
> And they also mention skinwalkers and Black Dogs. Too cool.




And they played music by Rush at the end.  RUSH!  On a WB show!  

I'm a loyal fan now for sure.


----------



## Umbran (Sep 21, 2005)

The episode title starts with "W".  The beast attacks every 23 years...



Spoiler



FNORD!  Hail Eris!  All Hail Discordia!


----------



## Knightfall (Sep 21, 2005)

This is one of my favorite new shows.

We get it on *"Space"* up here in Canada. (Fridays at 10pm EST with a repeat Saturdays at 5pm EST.)


----------



## Steverooo (Sep 21, 2005)

Well, I'm not liking it, so much...  It's definitely a "Freak-of-the-Week" show, and that gets old, quickly...  This will, too!

I didn't really expect them to find Dad, and/or get any info on the Anima Sola, this week, but I was surely hoping that it wouldn't become a Freak-of-the-Week Show, with Dad just being used as an occasional plot device!...  YAWN!

It's formulaic, and old, already.  I want something new...


----------



## SteelDraco (Sep 21, 2005)

Just watched the first episode. Excellent stuff, IMO. I do hope that they add some more characters in over the course of the first few episodes - just the two of them could get tiring fairly quickly, regardless of how good a job they do.

Something did seem... _off_ in the beginning scene, when their father ran from off-camera, grabbed both kids, and said "Gotcha" as they ran from the exploding building. Maybe I'm just looking for complexity where none exists, but I wouldn't be surprised if something else was going on there.

Part of me wants to fiddle with some audio editing software and check for EVP on the static from the baby monitor in the first couple of scenes. I bet they put something on there, for the Internet crowd. Wonder what I'd have to do to pull it out.

Also of note, I was born in Lawrence, KS, and currently live a short drive away. So I got a chuckle when I saw that name pop up.


----------



## Umbran (Sep 21, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> I didn't really expect them to find Dad, and/or get any info on the Anima Sola, this week,




Anima Sola?  Other than the combination of fire and a woman, how does this one apply?


----------



## Captain Tagon (Sep 21, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Well, I'm not liking it, so much...  It's definitely a "Freak-of-the-Week" show, and that gets old, quickly...  This will, too!
> 
> I didn't really expect them to find Dad, and/or get any info on the Anima Sola, this week, but I was surely hoping that it wouldn't become a Freak-of-the-Week Show, with Dad just being used as an occasional plot device!...  YAWN!
> 
> It's formulaic, and old, already.  I want something new...





What would you want? That would make sense and actually work in an episodic format. We're talking about two brothers who hunt and kill evil spirits and the like, what could they really do with that?


----------



## Mad Hatter (Sep 21, 2005)

"Freak of the Week" doesn't bother me as long as the story is good.  I got tired of it with Smallville; however, this show is good.  It does have that Call of Cthulhu vibe with hardened adventurers.  All we need now is some sanity checks.


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 21, 2005)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> "Freak of the Week" doesn't bother me as long as the story is good.  I got tired of it with Smallville; however, this show is good.  It does have that Call of Cthulhu vibe with hardened adventurers.  All we need now is some sanity checks.



Me neither, as long as there is regular progress.  I've been rewatching the X-files on DVD from Netflix for the last few months, it's there's a noticable difference on how intriguing "mythos" episodes are vs. "freak of the week."  I like the sense of the show _going somewhere_, and I was a bit surprised that at the end of the second episode, there were no obvious leads into the third.


----------



## CrusaderX (Sep 21, 2005)

Question - in the Wendigo epsiode, I thought I saw a brief scene of Sam in the woods, holding some type of beads that looked like prayer beads.  Did anyone catch what was going on in this scene?  I must have missed part of it.


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 21, 2005)

Didn't notice that.

I have, however, always pronounced it "WEN dig o" not "wen DEEG o" like they did on the show.  I'm quite sure they're right, though, not me.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Sep 21, 2005)

Crusader X-  I saw the beads.  I don't think they were prayer beads though.  They looked like a bracelet.  Might be a charm of some sort.


----------



## Wayside (Sep 21, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Question - in the Wendigo epsiode, I thought I saw a brief scene of Sam in the woods, holding some type of beads that looked like prayer beads.  Did anyone catch what was going on in this scene?  I must have missed part of it.



They were from his dad's journal.


----------



## devilbat (Sep 21, 2005)

Two episodes in and I'm happy with the show.  I think it's a step up from every other new program I've seen so far, this fall.


----------



## Kaledor (Sep 22, 2005)

I really liked the second episode.  It didn't feel as creepy to me as the first (perhaps that's just a flavor thing... ghostly hitchers freak me out). But I thought that the interaction of the characters was better in this ep. I really like how the two brothers are developing. And I think that it will be this interaction that keeps the show going despite being a freak of the week show.  

(And I love the 80/90's rock soundtrack that Dean brings to the show!   )


----------



## Kaledor (Sep 22, 2005)

Wayside said:
			
		

> They were from his dad's journal.




I caught the image too, but just figured that it was a braclet/charm from Jess's.
I must've missed them in the journal.


----------



## Wayside (Sep 22, 2005)

Kaledor said:
			
		

> I really liked the second episode.  It didn't feel as creepy to me as the first (perhaps that's just a flavor thing... ghostly hitchers freak me out). But I thought that the interaction of the characters was better in this ep. I really like how the two brothers are developing. And I think that it will be this interaction that keeps the show going despite being a freak of the week show.



I liked the first better, just because it was less obvious. After the opening sequence, my exact thought was "please don't let it be a Wendigo, and while we're at it let's never have vampires or werewolves or any of that crap on this show unless it's a totally campy spoof episode, like when Dracula came to Buffy." And for a while I was excited by the slightly less campy stuff being tossed around (skinwalker, black dog), but no, they did the cheesy cannibal thing. It would've been awesome if they had Robert Carlyle on to do a guest spot though, _Ravenous_ was great.


----------



## Steverooo (Sep 22, 2005)

*Improve it!!!*



			
				Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> What would you want? That would make sense and actually work in an episodic format. We're talking about two brothers who hunt and kill evil spirits and the like, what could they really do with that?




I would want some connections between episodes, not just schtick!  The first two episodes had this.  Dad disappeared, while "hunting", the kids go to find him, find the journal, instead, and move on to the location that it points to... but now it's a dead-end!  What I want are goals, always being worked towards.  Right now, that's finding Dad, and filling him in on what happened to Jess, and seeing what gaps he can fill in.  After that, it's finding "The Thing", and figuring out what hurts it!

Along the way, there can be occasional episodes where the (shall we say) "Meta-Plots" don't get advanced, but MOST episodes should relate to the resolution of one or two of these MPs, with occasional episodes that have NO FREAKS, but only advance the Meta-Plots.  That gives three basic styles of plot, instead of just one!

1) Kids follow clues to next freak-encounter.  They kill the freak, and gain a clue.
2) Kids are doing something else, stumble onto a freak, and slay it.  Then they go about their normal lives.  No new clues, this week!
3) Kids follow clues, either on Dad or Burning Women, encounter no freaks, but gain some piece(s) of valuable info, which helps them in future episodes.

There!  THAT'S what I want!

We;ve got the Motive, Opportunity is easy, now all we need is the Means...

If The Steverooo had written the first couple of episodes, for instance, the first thing that Dean would have done, after getting Sam out of the burning house, would be to sit down and go through Dad's journal, looking for what he was working on, when he LEFT the White Woman.  In the last episode, after killing the Wendigo, the cabe would have been carefully searched...  They know Dad was coming here, so what happened to him?  Did he get et, or what?!?

What leads them to the next episode?  I hope they'll tell us, next week, but I doubt it... and even if they do, I suspect that it'll be something stupid like: "Oh, look, I just found a clue in this journal (that I've had for days and days)!"   Shucks, you'd think they would have looked there, first!

So how is the next episode connected?  Oh, it's not?

YAWN!

And while we're at it, here are a few more plots for the Meta-Plotted show:

4) A "Day In The Life" show, where the kids are just shown getting along with the problems of daily life.  No freaks, no clues, just paying for broken-down auto repairs, getting food, travelling, getting pulled over by cops, and explaining all that odd hardware in the trunk...  Now is also a great time for character development.  Which kid steals the car parts, and which washes the dishes to pay for the food?  (Dean/Sam, is my bet!)

5) A Non-Freak Freak Show: They go in, looking for MP clues, and hear about a missing kid, think it's an "X" Freak, go in to kill it, and discover (Gasp!) that it's a lost-kid-down-the-well, kidnapping, parental abduction, etc.

6) A Day In The Life, pursuing clues.  How do they get their information?

7) Encounters with other "Hunters":  What?  You thought these three were the only ones?

8) Cries For Help!:  Someone comes to them, looking for help with a problem...  This works best if it's an Anima Sola, or the "Strange Man" who was watching Sam, in Episode 1.  That way, instead of "Just another Freak-of-the-Week", it can actually advance the Meta-Plot, as well.

9) Build The Network!:  People encountered previously (like the girl and her little brother, from the previous episode, and/or a cop who searches their trunk, or even the black cop from Episode 1) are used to help out, gain information, or whatever.  These people already know what's out there...  Some of these can be "Cries For Help!", too!

Y'see, a Meta-Plotted show is much better than "Route 666; Two brothers drive across the nation, slaying bad-things wherever they meet!"


----------



## Steverooo (Sep 22, 2005)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Anima Sola?  Other than the combination of fire and a woman, how does this one apply?




How do I apply thee?  Let me count the ways!

1) A Woman wreathed in flames.
2) A woman bound...
3) ...in torment.

True, she's usually CHAINED, but... I guess "The Thing" was in a hurry, so It improvised pins.


----------



## Wayside (Sep 23, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> How do I apply thee?  Let me count the ways!
> 
> 1) A Woman wreathed in flames.
> 2) A woman bound...
> ...



The anima sola is only superficially similar to what we've seen (i.e. similar in terms of very basic imagery). I think Umbran was more asking how what we've seen has anything to do with a spirit in purgatory, a matyr, Catholic iconography, etc. It also does nothing to explain what you called the "Strange Man."


----------



## Crothian (Sep 25, 2005)

So far the two shows have been good, I'm only now watching the second one.  I understand that people want more connection between the episodes but should you wait until that doesn't happen before complaining about it?  I do find it amusing though that in and episode titled Wendigo, someone wanted there to be something else.


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 25, 2005)

Wayside said:
			
		

> I liked the first better, just because it was less obvious. After the opening sequence, my exact thought was "please don't let it be a Wendigo, and while we're at it let's never have vampires or werewolves or any of that crap on this show unless it's a totally campy spoof episode, like when Dracula came to Buffy." And for a while I was excited by the slightly less campy stuff being tossed around (skinwalker, black dog), but no, they did the cheesy cannibal thing. It would've been awesome if they had Robert Carlyle on to do a guest spot though, _Ravenous_ was great.




OK, so let me get this straight. You find the Wendigo legend, which has _maybe _ been done in two or three media presentations to date, to be 'old hat', and cannibalism is campy and cheesy instead of horrifying and grotesque? I'd bet money that no more than 1 out of 10 people watching this show even know what a Wendigo _is_. To them, it's not old hat. It's totally brand new to them, just like the other things the brothers mentioned.


----------



## John Crichton (Sep 25, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I'd bet money that no more than 1 out of 10 people watching this show even know what a Wendigo _is_.



I agree, but it's more like 1 out of 10,000.


----------



## Wayside (Sep 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I do find it amusing though that in and episode titled Wendigo, someone wanted there to be something else.



Hey man, unless they actually put the title on screen while the episode aired, there's not much chance of me seeing it. Which is good for them, actually, because I might've just skipped last week's ep and returned for this week's if I'd known what was coming.



			
				WayneLigon said:
			
		

> OK, so let me get this straight. You find the Wendigo legend, which has _maybe _ been done in two or three media presentations to date, to be 'old hat', and cannibalism is campy and cheesy instead of horrifying and grotesque? I'd bet money that no more than 1 out of 10 people watching this show even know what a Wendigo _is_. To them, it's not old hat. It's totally brand new to them, just like the other things the brothers mentioned.



The effects of cannibalism in the Wendigo myth are campy and a tad overdone, sure, the former being a function of the latter. That's part of the comedic genius of _Ravenous_. Wikipedia points to a few more than _maybe_ two or three media presentations, and Wikipedia is far from exhaustive. If we weren't already getting hit with staples of the genre in the _second_ episode I'd be singing a different tune, but it seems a little early to me to be getting this generic stuff. As far as horrifying and grotesque go, if you find anything about _Supernatural_ so far horrifying or grotesque, that's great for you, but it takes a little more than a really bad costume and makeup job or a lady in white clothes to get to me. Some better direction would be nice, for starters. Horror's all about how you frame things. Otherwise, _Shaun of the Dead_ would be horrifying and grotesque too, right? Because there's flesh eating there, so it _must_ be creepy. I _did _ appreciate how they kept the Wendigo visually in the peripheral for most of the episode, but then later you get a good shot of it and it's really pretty silly looking.

Now, we've only seen two episodes so far, and _Supernatural_ has plenty of room to grow. I doubt there's _any_ show I couldn't say the same thing about based on its first few episodes. But yeah, ep 2 was a big disappointment from where I sat.


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 25, 2005)

Wayside said:
			
		

> Wikipedia points to a few more than _maybe_ two or three media presentations, and Wikipedia is far from exhaustive.




I count one media presentation that actually features a wendigo; the _Charmed _ episode. The rest are offhand mentions, an obscure story and even more obscure poem, and then fan speculation. More people probably know about the creature from the Marvel version than anoy of the other sources mentioned.


----------



## Wayside (Sep 25, 2005)

Or from the World of Darkness, or from Warcraft, or from any number of other sources that have coopted the word and reimagined the story in some form or other. And there are a lot of them because, like vampires and werewolves and zombies--just one tier down--the _basic_ concept is fairly well known, and leaves a lot of room for writers to customize to their liking. I'm elated they didn't use a werewolf, but the by-the-book Wendigo bored me nonetheless, for the reasons I've stated as well as a few others, like handwaving the backstory. If just eating someone turns you into a wendigo, there'd be a whole lot more of them, they wouldn't be regionally isolated like the show claimed, etc.

If you only see one example of a media presentation in that article I think what you mean by media isn't what media means.


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 26, 2005)

I don't care if a concept is old hat or not.  _X-files_ had tons of episodes with old hat concepts--werewolves, vampires, voodoo, etc.  It's all in the presentation, not the concept itself.

And I thought the episode was mostly well done.  I also thought, that by the time you actually saw the wendigo, it was kinda silly looking, but that ended up only being a minor nitpick on an otherwise entertaining episode for me.

The other nitpick, probably less minor in the grand scheme of things, is that the episode ended without any clear direction of where the next episode is going to come from.


----------



## John Crichton (Sep 26, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> The other nitpick, probably less minor in the grand scheme of things, is that the episode ended without any clear direction of where the next episode is going to come from.



I had the same thought as the show came to a close.  But I'll leave it on faith that we'll get some direction at the start of the new ep.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Sep 26, 2005)

Wayside, from their explanation it wasn't just a one time feast of cannibalism.  It was continual and probably got even more brutal and animalistic.  A counter argument to my previous statement would probably be the ritualistic eating of human flesh performed by many primitive cultures;however, I submit that it is different because of the circumstances.  One is due to extreme hunger and craving because of some sort of starvation circumstance, and the other is due to religious or tribal practices.  Different circumstanes.

As for old hat, come on!  As was mentioned the majority of people don't even know what a Wendigo is.  And I firmly believe that this episode was more about the brothers than any monster so it better to watch it for the interactions than for the monster.


----------



## Steverooo (Sep 27, 2005)

*We'll see...*



			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> So far the two shows have been good, I'm only now watching the second one.  I understand that people want more connection between the episodes but should you wait until that doesn't happen before complaining about it?




We'll see, in a few hours, whether or not I should have complained...


----------



## Mercule (Sep 27, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> The other nitpick, probably less minor in the grand scheme of things, is that the episode ended without any clear direction of where the next episode is going to come from.




Yup.  If this turns into a "freak of the week" show, I won't be watching it.  The backstory has potential, but if they don't follow that, it won't be pretty.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 27, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Well, I'm not liking it, so much...  It's definitely a "Freak-of-the-Week" show, and that gets old, quickly...  This will, too!
> 
> I didn't really expect them to find Dad, and/or get any info on the Anima Sola, this week, but I was surely hoping that it wouldn't become a Freak-of-the-Week Show, with Dad just being used as an occasional plot device!...  YAWN!
> 
> It's formulaic, and old, already.  I want something new...



It's not the formula, it's how it's used. It was great on Buffy, it's cartoonish on Smallville. So far, it's pretty good on Supernatural.


----------



## takyris (Sep 27, 2005)

You know what else I hate? Those shows where somebody gets murdered every episode, and the good guys find out who did it. Come on, I hate those criminal-of-the-week shows.

(cough)

Formula isn't bad. Formula is formula. There are good formula shows and bad formula shows. If you don't like formula, can I assume that you also don't watch any of the CSI, Law & Order, or other procedurals, or read any of the popular fantasy on the bookshelves today, which is pretty much following the formulae established by the big guys? I'm not even going to mention mystery or romance novels, since I doubt this board has a preponderance of readers for that genre.

Supernatural is a freak-of-the-week show, just like Buffy and Smallville and X-Files and Charmed and Highlander (well, immortal of the week). Supernatural appears to have a recurring big-bad, just like the other shows had, but it's also going to spend some quality time monster-slaying. It's not trying to hide this fact. You certainly don't have to like it, but your stated reasons for disliking it seem to cut out a lot of the rest of the television world as well.


----------



## WizarDru (Sep 27, 2005)

I like the show.  I like it lots.

Wendigos are commonplace, now?  News to me.  I've seen the Wendigo ONCE in my lifetime outside of a reference in a fantasy novel - and that was in the X-men comic where wolverine tracked one down in the great white north.  Things like references to Black Dogs (creatures almost certainly as obscure as Wendigos) and Anasazi markings are lots of fun, and show the writers have at least done a little digging into the material.

The show's formula is ideal for getting viewers invested in the series without feeling that they can't just jump in.  There's plenty of time in the future for expanding the concepts, buliding a recurring cast and moving forward.  Shows as diverse as M*A*S*H*, The Fugitive, Buffy:TVS, Star Trek, Combat, The Rifleman, The Hulk, Law and Order, Magnum P.I., WKRP in Cincinnatti and hundreds of others have used it or a variant of it.  Because it works.

Steveroo's suggestions for how the show could be done actually sound less appealing to me, as they automatically exclude new viewers.  how many people decided to avoid Lost until the start of the second season, when they could be brought up to speed?  Jumping into Lost or E/R or Babylon 5 is made doubly hard on those who weren't there from the start.  It's an equally valid format choice...but it has its own drawbacks.


----------



## Wayside (Sep 28, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Wendigos are commonplace, now?  News to me.



Looks like. I can't do anything about the amount of exposure other people have to this stuff. I can say that I've never been on any sort of gaming network, like Battle.net or MtGOnline, where a variety of spellings of the name weren't in use. I can also say that when I asked my class of 26 if they knew the story, a significant number replied in the affirmative; but my university also teaches Native American Literature and it's a _very _ popular class. It could be that people my age and younger are more familiar with the stories than people who went through the education system a decade ago. Whatever the reason, everybody I know knows the story, as do half my acquaintances. That's just a fact.



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> Things like references to Black Dogs (creatures almost certainly as obscure as Wendigos) and Anasazi markings are lots of fun, and show the writers have at least done a little digging into the material.



I'd imagine Black Dogs are even less obscure than the Wendigo, but also less recognizable. A _lot _ of people have read that bit of Sherlock Holmes, but they aren't going to immediately make the connection.


----------



## Captain Tagon (Sep 28, 2005)

For my own part, I have VERY limited exposure to a Wendigo in stories. My first thought is to the X-Men character, which is completely different. The only other reference I can think of is a character in an online wrestling game.

As for Black Dogs, I have no clue at all what that one is.


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 28, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> For my own part, I have VERY limited exposure to a Wendigo in stories. My first thought is to the X-Men character, which is completely different. The only other reference I can think of is a character in an online wrestling game.
> 
> As for Black Dogs, I have no clue at all what that one is.




Yeah, I'd suspect that most people might just know the name from someone mining 'cool' references without any knowledge of or understanding of the actual myths. Like, there is a creature in WoW called a 'wendigo' but it's just a name, nothing more.

Black Dogs are a fairly well known British phenomenon, which the Hound of the Baskervilles riffs on (it doesn't really count as a story about one, though, since it's just a regular dog). Big dogs, some as big as calfs. Sometimes they are death omens. Probably a remnant of myths about the Cwn Anwn of Welsh folklore.

Tonight's episode was pretty good. Nice ghost story  Looks like next week might be more of a 'mythology' episode, as the girlfriend gets mentioned again.


----------



## Captain Tagon (Sep 28, 2005)

Yeah, this episode was definately entertaining. 

As an aside...Wayne, I'm loving the HERO Martial Artist book. So many ideas for characters and games already.


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 28, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Yeah, this episode was definately entertaining.
> 
> As an aside...Wayne, I'm loving the HERO Martial Artist book. So many ideas for characters and games already.




Oh, so you bought that?  COol. You should take another look at Watchers of the Dragon when I relist it; it's a campaign book for martial artists.


----------



## Steverooo (Sep 28, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> We'll see, in a few hours, whether or not I should have complained...




And I was right; dead right...



Spoiler



Now I'm off to haunt the show's writers, producers, and directors!


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 28, 2005)

Mercule said:
			
		

> Yup.  If this turns into a "freak of the week" show, I won't be watching it.  The backstory has potential, but if they don't follow that, it won't be pretty.



The last two episodes have been... well, episodic, but the "coming next week on Supernatural" preview of next week looks like it addresses "the Mythos" again.  To borrow a term from X-files.

If this follows a more or less 50/50 "big story" vs. "episodic" format, I'm OK with that.  It worked pretty well for X-files.

And long as the episodic ones are good.  So far I've enjoyed them a lot.


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 28, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> As for Black Dogs, I have no clue at all what that one is.



Pretty much the same as the Grim referenced in Harry Potter.  I'd hardly call that obscure, but it did use a variant name, at least.


----------



## WizarDru (Sep 28, 2005)

Wayside said:
			
		

> Whatever the reason, everybody I know knows the story, as do half my acquaintances. That's just a fact.




I wasn't questioning your anecdotal evidence...just that it was anything other than anecdotal.  Having a creature named a Wendigo in WoW, a villian from the X-men and the Hulk and a bunch of folks from a Native American literature class don't really qualify as making it mainstream.  I mean, let's be honest here, how many of your friends play D&D or are fans of fantasy and mythology?  I would venture that they (and anyone who posts here) has a much higher awareness of more obscure mythologies.  I would also suggest that knowledge of a particular mythology like the wendigo would also vary from region to region.  How many people are that familiar with the specifics of the Jersey Devil outside of New Jersey?  How many even knew of it before the advent of the hockey team?  IME, very few.  I'm sure folks in Mass. are more likely to know about the Dover Demon than someone in Flagstaff, for example.

Take a look at the wikipedia entry for the wendigo.  Eliminate gaming references, and you have a handful of pop-culture references to the wendigo made in the last 20 years or so.  Exclude Charmed (lord knows I DO ) and you've got Ravenous (a relatively obscure cult film) and the movie Wendigo...which has suprisingly little to do with the legend. Ginger Snaps (which was just plain obscure, with no US release) is a werewolf film/trilogy with some references to the wendigo.  Charmed's episode was in 1999, while the previous films were in 1999, 2001 and 2000, respectively.  All the book and poem references go back considerably further.  And in most cases, they're using the wendigo because its relatively obscure.

It may be common knowledge and a household name amongst gamers and the area where you live...but I'm just not seeing the wendigo as commonplace by any measure.  If anything, I'm seeing it as a vague legend used when more common legends (like vampires, ghosts and werewolves) aren't desired.


----------



## Captain Tagon (Sep 28, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Pretty much the same as the Grim referenced in Harry Potter.  I'd hardly call that obscure, but it did use a variant name, at least.





Still no clue man.


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 28, 2005)

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban?  The Grim?

Well, I can understand if you haven't either read the book or seen the movie, but anything Harry Potter by default isn't obscure.


----------



## Wayside (Sep 29, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I mean, let's be honest here, how many of your friends play D&D or are fans of fantasy and mythology?



None, but they've all seen _Ravenous_ and encountered the basic "eat human flesh go bestial become immortal" shtick before. Lots of Robert Carlyle fans.



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> I would venture that they (and anyone who posts here) has a much higher awareness of more obscure mythologies.



Certainly true in my case, but I'm not relying on myself here.



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> I would also suggest that knowledge of a particular mythology like the wendigo would also vary from region to region.  How many people are that familiar with the specifics of the Jersey Devil outside of New Jersey?



That's certainly possible, but the Jersey Devil can't be a good example. I mean there are whole videogames devoted to it, are there not?



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> Take a look at the wikipedia entry for the wendigo.



I mentioned this a page or two ago.



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> Eliminate gaming references, and you have a handful of pop-culture references to the wendigo made in the last 20 years or so.  Exclude Charmed (lord knows I DO ) and you've got Ravenous (a relatively obscure cult film) and the movie Wendigo...which has suprisingly little to do with the legend. Ginger Snaps (which was just plain obscure, with no US release) is a werewolf film/trilogy with some references to the wendigo.



But these things _aren't_ obscure at university. This is where people go nuts for things that are "obscure" by other peoples' standards, but then there are _so_ many kids on this same path that these things more or less cease to be obscure at all. I know _tons_ of people who've seen the Ginger Snaps movies.

It's all about what void you hope Supernatural will fill. Someone in another thread mentioned they wanted it to be the new Buffy. I don't think that's going to happen, but I'm sure hoping for more creative fringe ideas and fewer blah man-beasts. That said I enjoyed last night's episode _much_ more. It wasn't perfect by any means, but there were some great moments, from "I'm agent Ford, this is agent...Hamil" to those couple shots of the kid's corpse in the water at the end, and many things in-between. I _loved_ when he popped out of the water up to his eyes like some kind of zombie frog. I think I may have cheered out loud. In general I thought the cinematography was a lot stronger too (especially what felt like some changes in fps when they were filming liquid, which made it more sinister), although there were a few cheesey fades and some soundstage car scenes (don't see the point of that, since they went on location anyway).


----------



## Wayside (Sep 29, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Well, I can understand if you haven't either read the book or seen the movie, but anything Harry Potter by default isn't obscure.



Maybe we need to define obscure. I'm pretty sure fewer people have read Harry Potter than haven't, even just in the western world. The ratio probably balloons negatively after that.


----------



## Crothian (Sep 29, 2005)

And just because people are familiar with the term Windigo doesn't mean they actyually have a good understanding of it.  I imagine that if you request actually details from all these people saying they know of it you'd find that some of them actually don't.  

To really know if Wendigos are obscure you have to go hit middle america or similar places with the term.  What we are doing is like going to MIT and talking to people about computers.


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 29, 2005)

Wayside said:
			
		

> Maybe we need to define obscure. I'm pretty sure fewer people have read Harry Potter than haven't, even just in the western world. The ratio probably balloons negatively after that.



Are you trying to convince us that the wendigo is old-hat familiarity, while simultaneously claiming that Harry Potter references are obscure?    

Yes, defining obscure would be good here, but relatively speaking, the wendigo is _way_ more obscure than Harry Potter for just about any segment of the population, barring extremely odd, small, and rare outlier groups.  The books have sold more copies than just about anything besides the Bible, and the movies have been huge mainstream successes.  The current generation of kids and teenagers will probably see Harry Potter much as my generation sees the original Star Wars movies, if not even moreso.  And the original Star Wars movies were not at all a geeky thing for my generation; I've literally only met one person *ever* of my generation who, as an adult, had not ever seen the first movie.

Granted, like I said, Harry Potter uses "the Grim" instead of "Black Dog" or "Black Shuck" or barghest, but they are all really just alternate names for the same element of folklore.


----------



## WizarDru (Sep 29, 2005)

Wayside said:
			
		

> Wayside said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Captain Tagon (Sep 29, 2005)

The thing is I've SEEN Prizoner of Azkaban, twice even. Just don't remember any dogs in it.


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## WayneLigon (Sep 29, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> The thing is I've SEEN Prizoner of Azkaban, twice even. Just don't remember any dogs in it.




It's before Harry gets on The Knight Bus, where you see the dog coming out of the bushes at him; Sirius in his dog form, watching Harry. His name is even a reference to it: Sirius *Black * who changes into a *dog*.


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## WizarDru (Sep 29, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> The thing is I've SEEN Prizoner of Azkaban, twice even. Just don't remember any dogs in it.




The movie reduces their presence.  Early in the book, Harry encounters what he believes may be a Grim, and they are discussed.  The name is a reference to a specific kind of black dog, the Church Grim.  There are also 'shucks' which are headless black dogs.  The implication is that when you see a Grim, like hearing a banshee's wail, death is near.  Black Dogs are considered to be guardians of the paths of the dead, among other things.  In 'Azkaban' 



Spoiler



Harry's uncle can shapeshift into a large black dog, who appears several times in the book.  Several times in the book Harry incorrectly (based on other characters info) believes that he's seeing a Grim, foretelling doom.  In the movie, this plot aspect is dropped almost entirely.



Check out this paragraph referring to black dogs, and see how many D&D monsters you can identify from the common myth family:
"_In the Quantock Hills of Somerset the black dog was frequently seen and called the 'Gurt Dog'. Cornwall has various tales of the 'Devil's Dandy (or Dando) Dogs', Devon has the 'Yeth (Heath) or Wisht Hounds. Other local names include Barguest, Black Shag, Padfoot or Hooter. Just to be different, in West Yorkshire the common name is 'Guytrash'; in Lancashire this is reduced to 'Trash' or changed to 'Skriker'. Further afield, a particularly unpleasant phantom pooch frequented Peel Castle on the Isle of Man in the seventeenth century and was known as the Moddey Dhoo, or Mauthe Doog. _"


----------



## Captain Tagon (Sep 29, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> It's before Harry gets on The Knight Bus, where you see the dog coming out of the bushes at him; Sirius in his dog form, watching Harry. His name is even a reference to it: Sirius *Black * who changes into a *dog*.





True, but I also assumed that was more a werewolf thing.

EDIT: Or are the two more similar than I'm seemingly assuming?


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 29, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> True, but I also assumed that was more a werewolf thing.



No, it turns out to be more like a werewolf thing, but that's not what Harry and Co. believe for most of the book.  As WizarDru points out, this element is much reduced in the movie, but it's not removed entirely.  He does see the black dog, Ron and Hermione do worry that it's an omen of death, and the Divinitation teacher does comment on it (I believe more than once, but I could be mistaken) as an omen of death, etc.


----------



## Captain Tagon (Sep 29, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> No, it turns out to be more like a werewolf thing, but that's not what Harry and Co. believe for most of the book.  As WizarDru points out, this element is much reduced in the movie, but it's not removed entirely.  He does see the black dog, Ron and Hermione do worry that it's an omen of death, and the Divinitation teacher does comment on it (I believe more than once, but I could be mistaken) as an omen of death, etc.




Ah, gotcha. That's what I get for not reading the book. I did pick up on the omen of death thing, but without knowing the whole Black Dog thing I just assumed it was some random superstition like a black cat crossing your path. Not a whole mythological beast.


----------



## Desdichado (Sep 29, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Ah, gotcha. That's what I get for not reading the book. I did pick up on the omen of death thing, but without knowing the whole Black Dog thing I just assumed it was some random superstition like a black cat crossing your path. Not a whole mythological beast.



Yeah, that's understandable.  The other main well-known use of the Black Dog folklore is the Sherlock Holmes story "The Hound of the Baskervilles", but as that also turns out to _not_ be a "Black Dog" that's kinda ironic.  The Black Dog myth seems to have a habit of turning up in stories, and then turning out to be false.


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 29, 2005)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Ah, gotcha. That's what I get for not reading the book. I did pick up on the omen of death thing, but without knowing the whole Black Dog thing I just assumed it was some random superstition like a black cat crossing your path. Not a whole mythological beast.




Ah, ok; there's a big chunk of subtext you miss there, then  Three makers of the Marauder's Map, Wormtail (Peter Pettigrew), Padfoot (Sirius Black) and Prongs (James Potter) were all animagi, a special and uncommon type of wizard with the ability to transform into an animal as a kind of at-will power.


----------



## Steverooo (Oct 5, 2005)

YAWN!  I hear viewership falling off, already...

ZzZzZzZzZzzzzzzzz!!!


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## Desdichado (Oct 5, 2005)

Not on my end.  Despite the episodic nature of the show so far, they do make a point of tying the big story to it just a tad after all.

I also intrigued by the Bloody Mary in the mirror story coming up next week.  I remember that ghost story pretty well as a kid, although the details are vague now.


----------



## Captain Tagon (Oct 5, 2005)

Yeah, last night was a really fun episode. Got three people who had never watched the show before interested after last night.

And next week looks like it could be good entertainment as well. Color me excited.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 5, 2005)

I liked the episode enough.  I'll be watching again next week.


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 5, 2005)

I liked it. I especially liked that they had someone from their past call them in.


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## Steverooo (Oct 5, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I liked it. I especially liked that they had someone from their past call them in.




That was the ONLY part of it that I DID like...  This show is a real wiener! 



Spoiler



I predict that this show will last one season, or less, barring majorly changing course!


----------



## Crothian (Oct 9, 2005)

It was a good show.  I like that it is patient.  They get a few episodes were they set up themselves and now it is showing that they might be having peoiple calling them looking for help.

and that predicition is probably a safe bet based only that it is on WB, it seems a good number of their shows just don't make it no matter the quality


----------



## Christoph the Magus (Oct 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Me neither, as long as there is regular progress.  I've been rewatching the X-files on DVD from Netflix for the last few months, it's there's a noticable difference on how intriguing "mythos" episodes are vs. "freak of the week."  I like the sense of the show _going somewhere_, and I was a bit surprised that at the end of the second episode, there were no obvious leads into the third.




I'm just the opposite.  The best Xfiles IMO were the freak of the week shows.  Things started to get really boring when it just became "237-We see weird stuff and the government is still trying to keep a lid on it".  


The longer SN can stay "freek of the week" the better, IMO.


----------



## Steverooo (Oct 12, 2005)

Well, the series was just picked up for the rest of the season, but I am doubting that there will be a second...  There is very little buzz about it, here on the boards...  So, is no one watching?  I actually thought that this week's episode was a half-decent one, although still FotW...


----------



## Ao the Overkitty (Oct 12, 2005)

I actually thought yesterday's ep wasn't as good as the past few.  It just kinda felt formulaic.


----------



## Desdichado (Oct 12, 2005)

I thought yesterday's episode was the best so far, if a little derivative of _The Ring_.  Very creepy.  And, it's starting to tie back to "the big picture."

Steveroo, do you have anything to add other than complaints and doom and gloom?  If this show is so execrable to you, why are you still watching, and being the first to post any tiny little bit of news about it?

EDIT: to be clear; this isn't meant as an attack or a criticism; I'm just genuinely curious why he seems so interested in something that he professes to dislike so much.


----------



## Kaledor (Oct 12, 2005)

I loved the Bloody Mary episode.

I liked the tie in to the bigger picture with Sam's guilt.
I thought it was better than last week's and about just as good as the first ep. Very creepy. Sure, we've seen the effects before... but to me, they were still very well done and still very chilling! Creepy girls in reflections always get me    

I like that in this ep. they weren't completely sure how to finish off the creature. I wish they had played to that more (perhaps shown them researching ways of killing spirits or running through a list of ways...) I would have liked to see more tricks like we did in the first ep (salt, magic circles, ...).

And I'm still really enjoying the by-play between the two characters.
(I just wish they'd STOP showing them talking in the car while driving, the effects crew hasn't nailed that down yet and it always looks bad IMO).



btw. I predict that this will last more than a season -- no reason, I just wanted to voice the other side.


----------



## Captain Tagon (Oct 12, 2005)

Another fun episode that while still FotW managed to tie in a lot of mythos as well. These days this is the only show on television I make time to watch, though it coming on in the middle of the week probably helps.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 12, 2005)

I watched an thought it was ok.  It was enough that I'll watch the next episode.  And the girl was creepy goodness.


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## Wayside (Oct 13, 2005)

So far I've liked the odd-numbered episodes and been disappointed by the evens. I definitely prefer that they explore new directions when using common material, which they did with Bloody Mary (but not with the Wendigo, and for me that makes a huge difference).



			
				Steverooo said:
			
		

> Well, the series was just picked up for the rest of the season, but I am doubting that there will be a second...  There is very little buzz about it, here on the boards...  So, is no one watching?  I actually thought that this week's episode was a half-decent one, although still FotW...



Well, what we on these boards think about it doesn't really matter. There isn't a lot of buzz about One Tree Hill here either, and yet...


----------



## trancejeremy (Oct 13, 2005)

I finally got to watch it (normally I watch baseball on Tuesdays, but the Cardinals were off) and I thought it was pretty good.  Though not having seen the pilot, I have no idea what the premise is, other than the obvious (2 guys going around investigating the supernatural).  Also irked how the last 10 minutes seemed to be an ad for the Rolling Stones new album


As to buzz, it seems to be the most well received of the new supernatural shows, both here and on various mailing lists I belong to (for Bureau 13 & Chill, most notably). I mean, look at the comments for Night Stalker (the new one).  Basically 3 people.  Haven't see much on Invasion.  And Surface and Threshold seem pretty non-existant.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 16, 2005)

Another good episode.  I like what they are doing and I like the foreshadow that was shown with the fire demon and the dreams the kid had.  I wonder if the father had those same dreams?  

I missed the beginning of this week's episode, how did they find this case?


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 16, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I missed the beginning of this week's episode, how did they find this case?




They actually didn't say; they started _in media res_, so to speak, with them getting out of the car and walking into the backyard to talk to the girls, dad's picture in the paper circled. The first part of the show was the teenaged girls starting the sequence of events by playing Truth or Dare. She has to go up and say Bloody Mary three times; she does, they scare her, ha ha ha, and go back downstairs. Then Dad goes into the bathroom and gets his eyes ripped out, so you know something is screwy about what was happening right away. Big sister comes home and says Hi to the kids, goes upstairs, and sees the blood coming out from the bathroom. Checks things out, screams, first commercial.


----------



## CrusaderX (Oct 16, 2005)

Question about the Bloody Mary episode...

(Semi-spoilers)

According to the Bloody Mary legend, if you have a deep, dark secret that led to a death, Bloody Mary will come for you, and your eyes will bleed.  At the end of the episode, when Bloody Mary confronted Sam and Dean, both boys were bleeding from their eyes.  We know Sam's secret (relating to his girlfriend), but this means that Dean, too, has a death-related secret in his past, right?  I was disappointed that Sam didn't confront Dean about this at the end.


----------



## Kylara (Oct 17, 2005)

Dean didn't bleed til Mary came out of the mirror and was there physically, at which point her powers probably expanded.  Its not like its an exact science and Sam could call BS on that excuse, or that that reasoning didn't occur to Sam in the first place.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 17, 2005)

Ya, it could be either a dark secret or the more powerful spirit.  Hopefully, that will get mentioned at some point


----------



## Arnwyn (Oct 17, 2005)

Nice to see that everybody, Aunt Mabel, Uncle Lou, the kids down the street, and their dog had a "deep dark death secret".


----------



## Steverooo (Oct 19, 2005)

Well, another "okay" episode, but not great.  Not quite "Freak-of-the-Week", but too close for comfort...

They mentioned both Skinwalkers AND Werewolves, again.  I wonder if that means anything?

I also wonder why they didn't have much on next week's episode...  That will probably be the "Halloween" episode, and you'd think they'd have something special planned, for that.

?

I guess not.  The next Tuesday night will be Nov. 1rst.  I kinda doubt they'd do anything, then.

I was hoping to see Dean chase a "Freak-of-the-Week" through a crowd of little Trick-or-Treaters, or something!  

Well, Dean did have some secrets, but no "Death Secrets" were revealed, so nothing to tie it to last week...

Shades of Nietsche!  The Shapeshifter's comments about watching the family were interesting...  I don't know if it means anything, but it makes you wonder...    I hope they do something with tying all these kinds of hints together, at some point.


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 19, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Nice to see that everybody, Aunt Mabel, Uncle Lou, the kids down the street, and their dog had a "deep dark death secret".




It's an hour-long show.  There simply isn't enough time to introduce some new characters, the monster and then have any sort of tension if you have to pad the story to be more believable in that regard.  You have to accept certain concessions to budget, time and flow.

Plus it was pretty clear that Mary, as Dean said, didn't really understand anything but a binary equation.  Either you fit the pattern or you didn't, and it's possible feeling guilt was good enough.

Overall, I've been pretty pleased with the series.  They've maintained the mood, developed the characters slowly but consistently and still managed to introduce interesting plots.

I enjoyed last night's episode for once again not taking the straight cliched route and introducing another interesting take on a monster.  We definitely got some character development with both main characters, which was nice.  If I had a complaint, it was with the assumption that the police would ignore some fairly obvious forensic clues (like the blood smear outside).  But Supernatural is hardly unique in that; there are three types of forensic cops in TV: CSI's super-competent do-it-alls, Law and Order's we'll-do-our-besters and Supernatural's asleep-at-the-wheelers.    To be fair, though, that's a genre convention; in Night Stalker fashion, the police see what they want to see, and will do whatever they need to reinforce that paradigm. 

Along with the Night Stalker remake, Supernatural remains my favorite new show this season.


----------



## Arnwyn (Oct 19, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> It's an hour-long show. There simply isn't enough time to introduce some new characters, the monster and then have any sort of tension if you have to pad the story to be more believable in that regard. You have to accept certain concessions to budget, time and flow.



And I didn't, in this case. Sorry.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 23, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> And I didn't, in this case. Sorry.




I'm really surprised you are sticking with the show, why are you?

THis week's was pretty good.  I think the girl (and people in other episodes) are way to acceptign of these supernatural events.  I was disappointed that the guys didn't realize the police would be watching their car as well.  But I'm enjoying the special effects that have been really good for TV.  I'm hoping though that we get some stronger episodes as the show seems to have a lot of unfullfilled potential.  Next week though sounds promising.


----------



## Steverooo (Oct 23, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm really surprised you are sticking with the show, why are you?
> 
> ...I'm hoping though that we get some stronger episodes as the show seems to have a lot of unfullfilled potential...




Maybe you answered your own question...


----------



## Crothian (Oct 23, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Maybe you answered your own question...




Possible but his posts never read like he is hoping the show will improve


----------



## Arnwyn (Oct 25, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Maybe you answered your own question...



Indeed he did. I'm hoping, all right. (Anything relating to the original episode/premise I like, and I didn't mind this last episode, as they readily gave details/explanations that helped it make a lot of sense to me. For example.)


> Possible but his posts never read like he is hoping the show will improve



I know... it's kind of like that annoying guy crapping over in the "Lost" threads...


----------



## Crothian (Oct 25, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> I know... it's kind of like that annoying guy crapping over in the "Lost" threads...




Actually no it isn't.  I do mention what I like and don't like about Lost, I don't "crap" all over it at all.  And I give specific reasons for my responses that are negative when asked.  So, it's actually not like it at all.


----------



## Arnwyn (Oct 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Actually no it isn't.  I do mention what I like and don't like





			
				Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Anything relating to the original episode/premise I like, and I didn't mind this last episode, as they readily gave details/explanations that helped it make a lot of sense to me.



Check.


			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> And I give specific reasons for my responses that are negative





			
				Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Nice to see that everybody, Aunt Mabel, Uncle Lou, the kids down the street, and their dog had a "deep dark death secret".



Check. (And note that I've only had two negative comments in this entire thread, unlike a particular someone in the Lost threads...)


			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> So, it's actually not like it at all.



Looks like someone's not paying attention.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 25, 2005)

I like how one example is from not even an hour ago. I'm paying attention, the second one actually isn't even accurate.  Three people had secrets, that's not so hard to believe.  

I have more negative comments in the Lost threads, sure, but I also have more postive ones.  So, not like that at all.


----------



## Desdichado (Oct 25, 2005)

I'm kinda excited about tonight's episode.  The whole "guy with a hook for a hand who attacks teenagers who are out making out in the woods in the backseat of their car" is one of the few urban legends that I actually remember fairly well off the top of my head.

I'm curious what kind of supernatural angle they've put on it, though.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 25, 2005)

Ya, I like when they handle the classic urban legends like tonights (or Saturday for me)


----------



## trancejeremy (Oct 26, 2005)

I missed the pilot - how exactly do these two guys afford to drive around the country in an old muscle car with a trunk full of guns investigating paranormal stuff? (I'd do that myself, if I could afford to...)


----------



## Crothian (Oct 26, 2005)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> I missed the pilot - how exactly do these two guys afford to drive around the country in an old muscle car with a trunk full of guns investigating paranormal stuff? (I'd do that myself, if I could afford to...)




credit card fraud.  they don't explain it well enough but that seems to be it


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 26, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I'm kinda excited about tonight's episode.  The whole "guy with a hook for a hand who attacks teenagers who are out making out in the woods in the backseat of their car" is one of the few urban legends that I actually remember fairly well off the top of my head.
> 
> I'm curious what kind of supernatural angle they've put on it, though.




Pretty darn good backstory to that, and the poltergeist angle was very good as well. They're being pretty consistant so far, as 'salt as a deterent to spirits' makes it's reappearance. Hopefully it'll not 'conveniently not work' in other episodes without an explanation. I really like that backstory; it will definately make a re-appearance in a game at some later date.



			
				trancejeremy  said:
			
		

> I missed the pilot - how exactly do these two guys afford to drive around the country in an old muscle car with a trunk full of guns investigating paranormal stuff?




Credit card fraud, mostly, like Crothian said. Dean (and the dad) especially seems very adept at flting under the radar and living without leaving a great deal of trace. Pretty good angle for supernatural investigators. 

I really like how they are practiced at coming up with ways in, and means of ingratiating themselves with people. Like tonight's episode: Dean glances at the magazine subsciption label as the most likely source for the boy's name, thus subtly saying 'Yeah, I am who I say I am because otherwise how would I know that'.


----------



## Steverooo (Oct 26, 2005)

*Hooked Horrors!*

Anyone else notice that the hook in the illustration wasn't like the one on the "man's" hand?

Okay, so the spirit was dispelled when the bracelet melted?  Then how come it wasn't when the hook was melted down to make it?!?  

Another "C" episode...


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## Desdichado (Oct 26, 2005)

I liked the angle on the Hook-man legend.  I also am really digging the characterization.  Sam's got some obvious angst with his girlfriend dying in the first episode and all, but the last two episodes we're seeing some angst in Dean that's more subtle and more well-written.  He obviously covers it up with a carefree, even flippant attitude, but we're starting to see more and more the bitterness that his lifestyle has instilled in him, not to mention his jealosy at the life that Sam had, even if it only lasted a few years.  A lot of the quips he made at Sam while hanging around the college students were startling eye-opening.

However, the one gripe I had about the episode was the whole deal with the hook.  Dean needed to melt it to get the ghost to go away, right?  Well, hadn't it already been melted down and reforged?  Huh?


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## WizarDru (Oct 26, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Anyone else notice that the hook in the illustration wasn't like the one on the "man's" hand?
> 
> Okay, so the spirit was dispelled when the bracelet melted?  Then how come it wasn't when the hook was melted down to make it?!?




Didn't notice, but I would hardly expect it to match, really.  It was clearly a fanciful illustration from after the fact.

The spirit was dispelled after the WHOLE body, INCLUDING the hook, were destroyed.  Melting the hook didn't destroy him because the bones were still in an unmarked grave.  He persisted when hook was melted because his bones were still intact.  After Dean destroyed his mortal remains, the hook (now necklace) remained his sole form of investiture.


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## Desdichado (Oct 26, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> The spirit was dispelled after the WHOLE body, INCLUDING the hook, were destroyed.  Melting the hook didn't destroy him because the bones were still in an unmarked grave.  He persisted when hook was melted because his bones were still intact.  After Dean destroyed his mortal remains, the hook (now necklace) remained his sole form of investiture.



It is explainable, but the explanation ends up feeling a trifle convoluted, and the whole situation feels a bit contrived and "plot devicey."


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## D.Shaffer (Oct 26, 2005)

I'm not sure how people can think it's contrived.  This isnt the first time they've mentioned remains needing to be salted and burned to put a spirit to rest (They mentioned this in every 'ghost' episode so far).  Additionally, this is the second time they had a spirit with a focus beyond just its remains.  When they burned just the body, the spirit was able to 'remain' due to this focus.  When they destroy the focus, then the spirit no longer has anything to attach to.  It's a pretty good bit of consistancy, actually.


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## Brown Jenkin (Oct 26, 2005)

Here is a simpler explanation then. The differenece this time was the "Hook" was burned in a salted fire. It takes both salt and fire to destroy the spirit, so just reforging the hook won't do it. Perhaps it is burned salt that mixes with things that destroys the spirits. I think they also mentioned one other time a similar problem if the body is cremated.


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## WizarDru (Oct 26, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> It is explainable, but the explanation ends up feeling a trifle convoluted, and the whole situation feels a bit contrived and "plot devicey."




Well, that's how they explained it in the episode, when they said pretty clearly "You destroyed the body, why is he still here?" and discussed how that if the hook wasn't with the body, then he wasn't completely destroyed.

I agree with D.Shaffer; they've been fairly consistent in regards to destroying the undead they've mostly been facing.

Methods 
[sblock=Spoilers for Previous Episodes]1.  Woman in White: Closure of Ghost's Event
2. Wendigo: Burned with Fire
3. Ghost: Closure of Ghost's Event
4. Demon: Banished with Ritual and Salt
5. Bloody Mary: Destroyed Focus Item, Body Still Intact - Destroyed by own power
6. Doppelganger: Killed with Silver Bullets
7. Hook Man - Destroyed All Remains - sowed with Salt/Fire[/sblock]

So they've been pretty consistent from what I can tell.  When the remains are available, a ghost/poltergiest/vengeful spirit can be destroyed by sowing the grave with salt and burning the body.  However, when the physical remains aren't around to deal with properly (including the salt), you either have to fulfill whatever cycle of events has kept them on Earth or find a way to destroy them using their own power (or powers of another ghost linked to them).


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## takyris (Oct 26, 2005)

Minor note, relating to the not-most-recent episode involving the shapeshifter (I'm a week behind due to a busy schedule and a lot of room on the DVR):

I really like the fighting in the show so far. When Sammy fought "Dean", it felt real to me -- at least in the sense of two people with training trying to hurt each other. A few kicks, but mostly when they'd actually be useful, like knocking somebody back as opposed to kicking the head or silliness like that. I'm under no illusions that the two leads are brilliant martial artists, but the combination of decent acting (I really felt like they MEANT some of those swinging elbows, and the punches felt ANGRY, which was totally appropriate for the characters) and good editing made the two guys look like people I could legitimately believe spent a lot of their childhood learning to kill monsters.


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## WizarDru (Oct 26, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> Minor note, relating to the not-most-recent episode involving the shapeshifter (I'm a week behind due to a busy schedule and a lot of room on the DVR):
> 
> I really like the fighting in the show so far. When Sammy fought "Dean", it felt real to me -- at least in the sense of two people with training trying to hurt each other.




Yeah, I've liked the unarmed combat techniques I've seen used in the show so far.  It's pretty clear that they both have had some form of training, however rudimentary.  Possibly from their father, who gained some of the basics during his military service?  The fighting looks like they use a specific technique or art, though I couldn't tell you which or what, if they are.

And as for the DVR thing...that's the whole point.   Last night we watched last Thursday's episode of the Night Stalker, followed by a slightly-time delayed Supernatural...and then switched to the media box to watch an episode of an anime called Detective Academy Q, where they were trying to catch a Jack the Ripper copycat killer.  Yeah, it was a dark night for TV Viewing.


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## Steverooo (Oct 27, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> The spirit was dispelled after the WHOLE body, INCLUDING the hook, were destroyed.  Melting the hook didn't destroy him because the bones were still in an unmarked grave.  He persisted when hook was melted because his bones were still intact.  After Dean destroyed his mortal remains, the hook (now necklace) remained his sole form of investiture.




You're missing the point.  When the hook was melted THE FIRST TIME, it should have destroyed the spirit's connection TO THE HOOK.  Then, when the body was salted and burned, there should have been no more connection, and it should have been dispelled...

Now the explanation of salt being required might work, if we had seen Dean toss a handful into the furnace, along with the necklace, but I didn't see that, or hear anything mentioned about that.  Did I miss that?

If not, then the episode doesn't "work".  The fluff may be OK, for some, but the crunch is all wrong.  They can do better!... and they SHOULD.


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## Wayside (Oct 27, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Did I miss that?



Yes.


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## D.Shaffer (Oct 27, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> You're missing the point.  When the hook was melted THE FIRST TIME, it should have destroyed the spirit's connection TO THE HOOK.  Then, when the body was salted and burned, there should have been no more connection, and it should have been dispelled...



We're not missing it, we just dont agree with that assertation.  It was a supernatural artifact by that point.  Think of it as a cursed item.  Simply melting it down and reforging it wouldnt necessarily break the link.  Considering the hookman's origins as a priest, reforging it into a cross could even be seen as strengthening the link.


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## WizarDru (Oct 27, 2005)

D.Shaffer said:
			
		

> We're not missing it, we just dont agree with that assertation.  It was a supernatural artifact by that point.  Think of it as a cursed item.  Simply melting it down and reforging it wouldnt necessarily break the link.  Considering the hookman's origins as a priest, reforging it into a cross could even be seen as strengthening the link.




What he said.  I mean, frankly, I consider there to be a much bigger gaffe in the episode which you're I'm assuming you're handwaving like I am, vis a vis the amount of silver in question (which I'm handwaving as his hook having been silvered, as opposed to actually being made purely of silver).

I'm not looking for Monster Manual entries, I'm looking for an entertaining myth.  And most myths, especially these kind of undead/monster concepts, are generally very inconsistent and vague.  As far as it appears to me, the process was this:  priest buried sans hook;  both retain some degree of essence; the hook is melted down, but doesn't loose it's power, because the core body is intact; dean destroys the body in the proper fashion, but it's an incomplete job, because the hook-cum-necklace is still intact;  dean melts the necklace and the monster is destroyed.

The entire body wasn't covered in salt, just a large quantity of it.  So I don't think putting salt on the cross was necessary.  The Hook Man was already weakened that melting the cross would destroy him.  I can see where that didn't work for you; it did for me.

I mean, the general format of the show is pretty clear:

1: Monster rears it's ugly head
2: Brothers investigate the occurence
3: Monster strikes again
4: Brothers formulate theory of nature of monster
5: Monster strikes again, invalidating theory
6: Brothers realize true nature of monster (or monster's motivations)
7: Brothers confront monster for final battle, having figured out it's vulnerability

In virtually every episode, the monster has a trick, and figuring out how the monster doesn't conform to their previous experience or myth is the challenge.  So in part, we have to infer the nature of their methods by reverse engineering and their arguments over part 4 and 7.

Personally, I consider Supernatural one of the two best new shows this season, so take that with the grain of salt with which its offered.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 27, 2005)

The brothers just keep giving a real adventureer vibe as well.  I have not seen a clothes change in the series at all.  I like that.  Especially in dnd when character don't change often and sleep in what they wear.  I love this series.


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## MojoGM (Oct 27, 2005)

In one of the episodes (don't recall which one because we had a bunch on TIVO and watched them as a marathon) Dead gives his cell phone #.

Now, whenever I hear a phone # on tv that doesn't begin with 555 I call it to see what it is.

Well, it was a voicemail for Dean, done by the actor...pretty cool.

I don't have the number here (I'm at work) but I think the paper I scribbled it down on is at home somewhere.

Gilmore Girls did a similar thing once, Luke gave his cell phone # and if you called it you heard the actor who plays him pitching for some charity.

Anyway, Djeta and I really like the show.  It may be freak-of-the-week now, but they are probably doing this to set up the show and then throw twists by the end of the season.

I'll continue to TIVO it each week.


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## warlord (Oct 27, 2005)

You had to salt the hook and melt it to kill the hook man not just melt it. You would've noticed that if you payed attention.


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## Desdichado (Oct 27, 2005)

warlord said:
			
		

> You had to salt the hook and melt it to kill the hook man not just melt it. You would've noticed that if you payed attention.



Actually, if _*you*_ had been paying attention, you'd have noticed that Dean _didn't_ salt the hook.  He salted and burned the bones, and then he melted the necklace.  No salt involved.

I'm also sceptical that an old cast iron stove could generate enough heat to melt silver, but I'll let that pass since I don't actually know one way or another.


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## fett527 (Oct 27, 2005)

warlord said:
			
		

> You had to salt the hook and melt it to kill the hook man not just melt it. You would've noticed that if you payed attention.




Nanny-nanny-boo-boo. :\   Just discuss the episodes mang.


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## WizarDru (Oct 27, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I'm also sceptical that an old cast iron stove could generate enough heat to melt silver, but I'll let that pass since I don't actually know one way or another.




Silver melts at a range, starting at roughly 720 degrees and going up to over 900 degrees, depending on the quality of the silver and if it's laced with copper or other materials.  An old cast-iron stove surface can get to at least 800 degrees; internally it would be hotter.  Maybe not as quickly as shown, depending on how long he was at it, but it was certainly plausible.


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## spatha (Oct 27, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Actually, if _*you*_ had been paying attention, you'd have noticed that Dean _didn't_ salt the hook.  He salted and burned the bones, and then he melted the necklace.  No salt involved.
> 
> I'm also sceptical that an old cast iron stove could generate enough heat to melt silver, but I'll let that pass since I don't actually know one way or another.



I thought they showed him throwing salt into the fire before he started to initialy burn the silver items.


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## Desdichado (Oct 27, 2005)

spatha said:
			
		

> I thought they showed him throwing salt into the fire before he started to initialy burn the silver items.



I didn't see it, but I concede that I might have looked away for a second when he did it.  I did for sure see him salting the bones before he lit them up, though.


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## spatha (Oct 27, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I didn't see it, but I concede that I might have looked away for a second when he did it.  I did for sure see him salting the bones before he lit them up, though.



When it first showed him in the basment in front of the wood stove it looked like he threw something on the fire in a motion like someone casting sand or salt would make. It then showed him throw in some silver items.


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## Desdichado (Oct 27, 2005)

Doh!  Maybe I really _wasn't_ paying attention!


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## Crothian (Oct 30, 2005)

good episode, the hook ghost looks goo with the effects.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Nov 2, 2005)

Excellent episode. If they'd just move this out of competition with other popular shows (and not show repeats at the same time as the Veronica Mars repeats), this could be my Buffy replacement.


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## takyris (Nov 2, 2005)

Just saw it last night, and yeah, he does throw what looks like salt (or sand -- it's hard to tell in the firelight, but it's clear that he's throwing a granular substance, and salt is the logical contender in this case) into the fire. It's very fast, and if I recall correctly, it's right in the opening of the scene. It's missable, but it's there.

They did a good job of not showing too much of the bad guy in this episode. I think they realize that they don't have that big a budget, and also that "nineteenth-century preacher with hook" doesn't really look scary in bright light and a straight-on camera angle. I liked how little we got to see of him, except for the hook -- which, if something like this ever happened, would be what I was paying attention to anyway. It's like a comedian I vaguely remember riffing about being held up at gunpoint and later being asked what the assailant's lips looked like, for the composite sketch. He joked that he really doesn't look at guy's lips in ANY case, but then launched a massive and detailed description of the gun.


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## WizarDru (Nov 2, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> They did a good job of not showing too much of the bad guy in this episode. I think they realize that they don't have that big a budget, and also that "nineteenth-century preacher with hook" doesn't really look scary in bright light and a straight-on camera angle. I liked how little we got to see of him, except for the hook -- which, if something like this ever happened, would be what I was paying attention to anyway.




Sometimes less is more and letting your mind fill in the gaps works well for horror.  I really liked the 'invisible hook scratching the wall' idea.  He's here...but we can only so what he wants us to see...and he's getting closer...closer....


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## Desdichado (Nov 9, 2005)

So... last night?  "Bugs" was probably my least favorite episode to date, but I did like how it had some ties to the "Big Picture" story, and Sam's relationship with his dad. 

And good casting on the guest stars--that developer's son looks like he really could be the actor's son.


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## D.Shaffer (Nov 9, 2005)

My sister 'loved' this episode. Having a severe phobie to creepy crawlies, she could barely watching this ep.  I thought it was an OK ep. The bug attack at the end was some pretty glaringly bad CGI IMO.

Next weeks ep looks like it'll make the story arc lovers happy.


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## fett527 (Nov 9, 2005)

Didn't like this ep at all, I felt it was very lame and easily the weakest to date.  The special effects were bad and who else thought that midnight to dawn seemed to go by a little too quickly?  I was intrigued to see how they would get out of it as dawn was hours away and then BLAM- sunlight.  Concept was intersting, execution was severly lacking.


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## trancejeremy (Nov 9, 2005)

Yeah, that was an awfully quick sunrise. Something like 3-6 hours compressed into 15 minutes of TV show time.

I mean, everyone in the house was still up. So it couldn't have been past 2 am or so at best.  And generally speaking sunrise is at 5 am at the earliest.


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## fett527 (Nov 9, 2005)

I thought Sam had stated specifically it was midnight when the swarm started which is why it seemed to happen too quickly to me.


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## WayneLigon (Nov 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> So... last night?  "Bugs" was probably my least favorite episode to date, but I did like how it had some ties to the "Big Picture" story, and Sam's relationship with his dad.
> 
> And good casting on the guest stars--that developer's son looks like he really could be the actor's son.




Same here. It's difficult for me to relate to swarms of normal bugs being able to have any real affect on a healthy human being unless you're getting stung to death by swarms of wasps or bees. Bad bee-cgi, plus it did seem dawn came way too early.

You know what a cursed indian burial mound should be guarded by? Large ghost wolves. Trees that grab you up and crush you into chunky-style salsa. I guess something happened with the SFX budget, like some big effect planned had a fatal flaw at the last minute.

It was saved by the character bits between the brothers, and the father-son relationship infos. It was funny; I've given the exact same advice Sam gave the kid to more than a couple other kids his age.


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## Crothian (Nov 13, 2005)

well, oddly nice of Sci fi to have a day of insect movies for the Bugs Supernatural episode


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## Crothian (Nov 13, 2005)

Ya, night went to fast they had pacing problems there.


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## takyris (Nov 13, 2005)

Ditto the pacing. I got a strong impression of about five minutes being cut from that end part, or, at the very least, a minute or two involving a) the transition to sunrise or b) a revelation that the whole "day and night share the sky" thing meant that there'd be an aurora borealis or something causing a sunrise-looking effect in the night, and that was why it looked like the sun was coming up at 2 in the morning.


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## Aaron2 (Nov 14, 2005)

From the first scene I thought: New Developement + Oklahoma = Indian burial ground. My question was, if you find a pair of skulls sitting in a cursed burial mound, should you be picking them up and putting them in a box? Last episode they talked about how to deal with a body (the drowned kid's) to stop a ghost but here they didn't even consider it.


Aaron


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## Crothian (Nov 14, 2005)

Because it was the bugs acting up, it didn't fit the profile of a ghost


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## Arnwyn (Nov 16, 2005)

This past episode was the best episode be far - finally, more background with the original events and their father.

Good stuff.


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## Desdichado (Nov 16, 2005)

D'oh!  I missed it, too!  Looks like there's a re-broadcast on Sunday evening, though.


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## WayneLigon (Nov 16, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> This past episode was the best episode be far - finally, more background with the original events and their father.




Yep! Now I think we can see where the SFX budget from last episode was shifted to 

I _liked _ Missouri. She is definately getting lifted for the next occult game I run.

Very interesting the Dean seems pretty freaked by Sam's ability - as it continues to grow, I wonder what will happen to their relationship. It seems they've met almost no 'good' paranormal sorts, so that probably explains Dean's reactions.


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## trancejeremy (Nov 16, 2005)

Yeah, I hope she becomes a recurring character, at least occasionally.  

Their mother was really hot, too. (pun intended)


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## Steverooo (Nov 17, 2005)

*And, Again, I say...*

Anime Sola!


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## Arnwyn (Nov 17, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I _liked _ Missouri. She is definately getting lifted for the next occult game I run.



So did I. I thought that she was hilarious, and I hope to see her recur in a few episodes.

A nice and Poltergeisty (ie. the movie) episode.


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## jaerdaph (Nov 17, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I _liked _ Missouri. She is definately getting lifted for the next occult game I run.




I was thinking that myself.  Missouri is a great character - she reminded me a little of Tangina Barrons from _Poltergeist_ too.


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## fett527 (Nov 17, 2005)

This seemed like sliced bread compared to the bug episode.  It was fun to watch especially with the Missouri character.  Nice to see the main plot back in play.


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## Crothian (Nov 20, 2005)

Wow, this might be the best episode of the bunch


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## trancejeremy (Nov 20, 2005)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> I was thinking that myself.  Missouri is a great character - she reminded me a little of Tangina Barrons from _Poltergeist_ too.




Even the characters on the show thought so. (They mentioned Zelda Rubenstein, the actress who played her)


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## Desdichado (Nov 21, 2005)

*And I also say again...*



			
				Steverooo said:
			
		

> Anime Sola!



I don't see it.  Only superficial similiarties, while important key concepts of anime sola are missing.


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## trancejeremy (Nov 23, 2005)

Another good episode, I thought. Though the ending part with the pistol was somewhat predictable.


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## WayneLigon (Nov 23, 2005)

_Asylum_

I liked it a lot. More tension between the brothers, some mention of Sam's growing abilties. So far consistant with the fire+salt method of laying a ghost to rest. And of course the ending revelation - should be interesting for next time, yep.


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## Crothian (Nov 27, 2005)

Good epsiode, nice gohsts, evil ghosts...interesting I would have liked to have seen the shrink learn about his father in the end but minor thing...


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## Desdichado (Nov 28, 2005)

I had to miss it; on Tuesday we had in-laws in town, and on Sunday I had to run around taking care of a credit card that got lost (and luckily found again very quickly, but still.)

Anything important happen that is relevent to the season as a whole?


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## WayneLigon (Nov 28, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Anything important happen that is relevent to the season as a whole?




More character building between the brothers. 

At the end, Sam gets a cell phone call. He answers it and sits bolt upright in bed. "Dad?!" he says.


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## Steverooo (Nov 29, 2005)

Looks like the show will be on hiatus, until Jan., or so...


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## WayneLigon (Nov 29, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Looks like the show will be on hiatus, until Jan., or so...




Bah. TV.Com says Jan 1 for the next new show. What's up with this? That's like four shows I know that are taking December off. 

Looking at the entry for the last episode, it does explain a joke I didn't quite get from last episode: 

Dean: "Hey Sam, who do you think is a hotter psychic? Patricia Arquette, Jennifer Love Hewitt, or you?" 

Dean is reffering to two other shows with supernatural inclinations. Patrica Arquette plays medium Allison DuBois on NBC's _Medium_, and Jennifer Love Hewitt plays a psychic named Melinda Gordon on the CBS drama_ Ghost Whisperer_.


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## Crothian (Nov 29, 2005)

Most shows have always taken december off...we only get like 22 shows a year so they have to take quite a bit of time off.


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## trancejeremy (Nov 29, 2005)

Yeah, they figure that most people won't watch TV during the holiday season. So save the new episodes for later.


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## Steverooo (Dec 1, 2005)

Well, the previews said it will return, next week, but I guess it'll be a re-run.


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## Desdichado (Dec 1, 2005)

Yeah, it'll be "Wendigo" again, it looks like.


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## RangerWickett (Sep 27, 2010)

I just finished watching the first season on DVD. I'm so amused by posters who were saying, "It won't even get a full first season." And now it's on its sixth?

Well, marathon late night TV show watching is a vice of mine.


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