# Heroes...Season 1 10/09/06 Esp#3



## Truth Seeker (Oct 9, 2006)

[imagel]http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/tv/heroes_hayden_190.jpg[/imagel]








"One Giant Leap" 
Claire's social life suffers when her romance with a quarterback takes a tragic turn; Niki winds up in the middle of the desert when she follows instructions from a mysterious source.​
*Cast*: *Sendhil Ramamurthy, Milo Ventimiglia, Adrian Pasdar, Hayden Panettiere, Ali Larter, Noah Gray-Cabey, Santiago Cabrera, Tawny Cypress, Masi Oka, Greg Grunberg, Clea DuVall, Nora Zehetner.*


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## Jamdin (Oct 10, 2006)

I thought the end of tonight's episode was a little too gruesome but I enjoyed the rest of the show.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 10, 2006)

I thought it was gruesome, but accaptable. Me thinks a football player is going to have hell to pay... The show is very Lostonian in its narrative structure.


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## Harmon (Oct 10, 2006)

Couple years back our GM ran a villian named Sylar, The Crimson.  He has threatened to sue if the villian wears read.  j/k


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## TracerBullet42 (Oct 10, 2006)

Thought the episode was ho-hum outside of the hilarious Japanese duo and the last two minutes...

Does anyone else find that the music in this show is irritating?


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## WayneLigon (Oct 10, 2006)

Excellent episode! 

Claire: Yes, I think that would count as 'putting a crimp in your social life'. 

The policeman was very well done; good that they are moving things along so when he clearly demonstrates his ability, he is believed. Interesting encounter for him in the bar; I wonder if Silent Man was Syler? 

Peter's ability as a mimic is all but confirmed, I think.

Next week's ep looks fantastic: Claire's stepdad apparently is involved in .. something.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 10, 2006)

....what an ending!!!!


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 10, 2006)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Peter's ability as a mimic is all but confirmed, I think.




I missed the first 15 minutes last night. How was his ability to mimic confirmed?


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## mmu1 (Oct 10, 2006)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I missed the first 15 minutes last night. How was his ability to mimic confirmed?




Well,



Spoiler



He repeatedly tried to fly (off of a much lower structure, fortunately) and couldn't, suggesting he did get the power from his brother.


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## Brown Jenkin (Oct 10, 2006)

They are now reaching the point where they really need to start weaving the characters together. I am sort of enjoying the show but so far there are too many characters all getting developed and no interaction between them. This unfortunately works out to 5-10 minute mini-episodes all in the same hour. Maybe this is working for others but I am getting to the point where I think they need to actually bring them together.

From another thread: I hadn't really paid attention to the intro naration before until it was pointed out. I have to agree that they really need to change that. Maybe not the concept, but the actual voice actor and his intonations are awful.


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## RangerWickett (Oct 10, 2006)

That girl has to be the most accident prone individual in the world. I mean seriously. 

My bet is that Syler's just a TK, and that he blocks bullets, but the force knocked him down.


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## D.Shaffer (Oct 10, 2006)

Wow.  That ending was a bit more grusome then I was expecting.  I know I wouldnt want to be waking up to see that.  I think we can safely say she doesnt quite feel pain the same way though. I find it a bit interesting that she didnt start regenerating until the stick was removed.


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## Cheiromancer (Oct 10, 2006)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> That girl has to be the most accident prone individual in the world. I mean seriously.




She's obviously a min-maxer; she took the Regeneration ability with the Accident Prone drawback.


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## Henry (Oct 10, 2006)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> That girl has to be the most accident prone individual in the world. I mean seriously.




I mentioned this over at CM, too. If she HADN'T had that mutant ability, she'd have been dead before she hit kindergarten, at this rate!!! She's made of sugar, spice -- and Jello, apparently.


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## Umbran (Oct 10, 2006)

That ending made my wife scream like a little girl.  And she does surgery on a regular basis, so it isn't like she's squeamish. 

But folks, spoiler: 



Spoiler



when you get killed because a guy is violently attempting to rape you, that's not an "accident".  I'll grant you the disposal and the football player incident, but this was different - someone was actively trying to hurt her, it should not be surprising that she got hurt.






			
				Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> Maybe not the concept, but the actual voice actor and his intonations are awful.




The voice is Sendhil Ramamurthy (the guy who plays the geneticist, Mohinder Suresh).  His intonations are simply an Indian accent.  I rather like the intros, m'self.


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## Arnwyn (Oct 10, 2006)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Excellent episode!
> 
> The policeman was very well done; good that they are moving things along so when he clearly demonstrates his ability, he is believed. Interesting encounter for him in the bar; I wonder if Silent Man was Syler?



Excellent episode indeed.

I do think that the "Silent Man" in the bar was indeed Sylar - though I don't think that's necessarily what he looks like.

My (current) theory is that Sylar is the supervillain and has all 9 (I think it's 9) of the powers that each individual character has - and all 9 main characters have to gang up on him to defeat him at the show's climax.


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## WayneLigon (Oct 10, 2006)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> My (current) theory is that Sylar is the supervillain and has all 9 (I think it's 9) of the powers that each individual character has - and all 9 main characters have to gang up on him to defeat him at the show's climax.




My theory is something like that. I think that Syler is, perhaps like Peter, a power mimic. He was the first person Dr Saresh tracked down and apparently 'activated'. Syler can activate power in other people, just be getting near them perhaps, or he can sense the power or power potential. Notice how his own Big Board had many, many more locations. Perhaps there is something in that, that does connect all these people - the lines on the Big Board might be 'The Connection' or maybe it's the order in which they were activated - older activations of course understand their powers better, and have stronger powers.

It might be that Syler can accelerate or enhance powers, too. If that is Syler in the bar, Matt's in his presence when all of a sudden his powers started ramping up. Or it could be that alcohol just looses those mental inhibitions as well.

Syler has, I think, one other power: he can permanently adopt other people's powers by eating their brains. 

My theory on the climax is that they'll need to all be within Peter's mimic radius, to loan him enough power to defeat Syler. Hopefully.

And things are coming together. Right now, we have Hiro coming to Las Vegas and on to NYC.  Niki is probably going to Vegas. Peter and Isaac already have a connection through Isaac's girlfriend. Mohinder knows about Syler and has alerted the cops about him, which means Matt and the FBI woman probably will be speaking to Mohinder very soon. It's all gelling


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## TwistedBishop (Oct 10, 2006)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Interesting encounter for him in the bar; I wonder if Silent Man was Syler?




Syler or not, he's definitely involved in this.  He was wearing that weird symbol on a cord around his neck.

I like the show well enough, I suppose.  But the Ali Larter character really drags things down.  Her power (evil mirror doppleganger) and her ludicrous backstory (the mob and millionaire bankrobbers) don't fit well at all.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 10, 2006)

Well, I think that the evil mirror woman (what is the character's name - I am so bad at names in movies - and real life, too  ) is actually the one that commited the murders of her husband. It is possible her mirror-self worked actively to help him (possibly him knowing, possibly him finding out later and trying to protect her by taking the blame). 
Maybe wo got one thing wrong - she is not a Hero, she is a villain. Her mirror-self doesn't seem like a friendly person. I also haven't give up the theory that it's actually the boy doing these things (which might explain his certainity that his father will never be found)


Did I get that right or was Peter hurt after he hit is brother= The woman mentioned he would bleed, and the scene didn't indicate that his brothers guards did hit him so hard. Maybe it's not just power-copying he can do, it's some kind of empathy.



> My (current) theory is that Sylar is the supervillain and has all 9 (I think it's 9) of the powers that each individual character has - and all 9 main characters have to gang up on him to defeat him at the show's climax.



That's definitely a possibility - though we haven't found someone yet that can manipulate people without touching them. The police telepath seems only able to read minds. But maybe Hiro's time-stop power could create the same result?


I liked this episode. The only weakness is the whole science thing they are trying to get into it, I think, especially with the antropomorphized evolution.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 10, 2006)

Its college...not kindergarten...  


			
				Henry said:
			
		

> I mentioned this over at CM, too. If she HADN'T had that mutant ability, she'd have been dead before she hit kindergarten, at this rate!!! She's made of sugar, spice -- and Jello, apparently.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 10, 2006)

Bah! Claire is not accident prone.  She does it on purpose.  That, my friends, is suicidal at worst and plain ol' testing your limits at best.  Seriously, I'd be testing myself like crazy (ala Groundhog Day).

 I like that she only heals after the obstruction is removed or fixed.  It makes sense.  Is anyone else slightly distrubed that this tv show is doing her regen powers better than they ever did for Wolverine in the movies?

I don't think that Peter is a mimic.  I just think that he hasn't quite learned his trigger yet for whatever reason.  But I suppose it is possible.


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## Umbran (Oct 10, 2006)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> Maybe wo got one thing wrong - she is not a Hero, she is a villain. Her mirror-self doesn't seem like a friendly person.




Well, consider that the only people we've ever harmed by her mirror-self were very bad people, about to put her in a very bad position.  Maybe she's a villain, and maybe she's just in a tough spot...



> Did I get that right or was Peter hurt after he hit is brother= The woman mentioned he would bleed, and the scene didn't indicate that his brothers guards did hit him so hard.




I think they hit him plenty hard enough to give him a bloody lip.  I don't think there's enough evidence to make claims for physically manifested empathy.



> That's definitely a possibility - though we haven't found someone yet that can manipulate people without touching them. The police telepath seems only able to read minds. But maybe Hiro's time-stop power could create the same result?




Possibly, but Hiro still has his brains


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## Ed_Laprade (Oct 10, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> I don't think that Peter is a mimic.  I just think that he hasn't quite learned his trigger yet for whatever reason.  But I suppose it is possible.



Um, read last week's (I think it is) TV Guide. The one with the spread on the series. They state quite clearly that he's a mimic.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 10, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> I like that she only heals after the obstruction is removed or fixed.  It makes sense.  Is anyone else slightly distrubed that this tv show is doing her regen powers better than they ever did for Wolverine in the movies?




I like the fact, confirmed tonight in the last scene, that Claire doesn't feel any physical pain.  



			
				Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> That's definitely a possibility - though we haven't found someone yet that can manipulate people without touching them. The police telepath seems only able to read minds. But maybe Hiro's time-stop power could create the same result?




The first point isn't true... whoever attacked the little girl made Clea Duvall (what's her character's name?) point the gun at her head.  Only Matt (the cop) shooting him from nowhere saved her.

Also, Hiro could conceivably stop time and move someone to manipulate them, but that is still physical.  Though he didn't actually move the girl's pose in any way, just her position.



			
				Arnwyn said:
			
		

> My (current) theory is that Sylar is the supervillain and has all 9 (I think it's 9) of the powers that each individual character has - and all 9 main characters have to gang up on him to defeat him at the show's climax.




The problem with that is there are more than nine people with powers.  Sylar's map, confirmed by Mohinder's comments, shows much more than that.

My personal theory is that Sylar consumes brains to gain powers, hence tracking the heroes on the map.  He may have originally had a power, but it's impossible to tell right now.

Evidence:

1) The crime scene Clea and Matt are at shows two distinct powers - the man is frozen and the woman is telekinestically killed.

2) When Matt and "Sylar" (if that was him) stand-off, he shows several powers - mind-control, immunity or regeneration, and some sort of ability to make a hasty retreat.

3) Claire doesn't regenerate until the branch in her brain is removed.  As soon as it is, it kicks in.


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## Victim (Oct 10, 2006)

I don't think Sylar having the FBI agent point her gun at herself was mind control.  It was TK, grabbing her gun and hand and forcing it to aim at her head.  That's why she was freaking out and trying to force the gun away with her other hand.  TK would also explain the people killed with small objects and possibly some of his other tricks.

Also, Claire's lack of pain may be contributing to her injuries, since she wouldn't be instinctively trying to avoid the damage by flinching, tensing up muscles, etc.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 10, 2006)

Agreed, Sylar's power is TK, exclusively as far as we've seen. 

But yeah, Claire is awfully accident-prone, either way. How often are cheerleaders crushed by players during practice? How often do you hit your head on a sharp stick so hard it bashes through your skull?


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 10, 2006)

Really?  They stated he was a mimic?  Well without knowing that I wouldn't have believed it, hence my comment.  That's one reason I don't like stuff like that because without someone telling you, you wouldn't get that conclusion.  Because so far, we only have one maybe two people who control their power with relative proficiency (Claire, but that's passive and Hiro).  So it wouldn't be far out that one of the only other characters with an active power would have a hard time even using his.


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## Victim (Oct 10, 2006)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Agreed, Sylar's power is TK, exclusively as far as we've seen.
> 
> But yeah, Claire is awfully accident-prone, either way. How often are cheerleaders crushed by players during practice? How often do you hit your head on a sharp stick so hard it bashes through your skull?




Well, never on the second one. 

I think a normal person would have reflexively twisted their head at the last second and vastly reduced the significance of the injury since the stick would scrape more along the surface rather than punching straight through.  If I poke my hand on a nail, I'll usually come away with a minor scratch since I'm going to jerk my hand away.  Lacking normal awareness of pain, Claire usually isn't going to do that, so she'll probably keep pushing her hand onto the nail and not realize she drove the point through her hand until she looks at it, feels wetness from her blood, or something.  I get a tiny scratch and she impales her hand.  It's not a matter of being accident prone; it's a consequence of her pain blocking powers.  

I'd expect that not feeling pain would lead to pretty much anyone having more frequent and severe injuries.


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## WayneLigon (Oct 10, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Really?  They stated he was a mimic?




Nobody has stated it, but that seems the smart way to bet.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 10, 2006)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Nobody has stated it, but that seems the smart way to bet.




Not really.  We haven't seen him in the presence of other people using their powers.  And it owuld be doubly hard since there are so few characters with active powers (Hiro, Matt, and Nathan).  I mean it wouldn't really make sense that he's in Claire's general area and all of a sudden he can regenerate.  It's not something you can test with ease.  Far more likely is that he's just having a hard time even using his ability.  Flight isn't something you should just pick up like that.  It's an unnatural state.  And before you posit the argument that it should also apply to the others, I say "not really" because like I've said they have passive powers that are on all the time save for Hiro.  I love Hiro's enthusiasm for his powers.  He is amazingly proactive and his joy is just infectious.  And Matt is just learning about his telepathy and so far he ain't controlling it well or at all.


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## drothgery (Oct 10, 2006)

It occurs to me that the Heroes will be pretty much depending on Hiro if they're in any kind of straight-up fight; no one has a straightforward offensive power except maybe astral-projection mom (and her abilities are too eratic), and Claire apparenlty doesn't know how to fight (and so can't really take advantage of being unbreakable-girl). The cop at least has some weapons training, but small arms didn't seem to work too well in the first encounter with Sylar.


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## Victim (Oct 10, 2006)

Nathan mimiced the artist's future predicting paintings, sketching out the rooftop scene.  His brother didn't seem to be feeling well right before Nathan flew the second time, and when they both flew the first time, they crashed.  It seems like his power mimicry has some side effects...

And when his brother flies, he certainly picks it up instantly, even if he doesn't use it much - I suppose its possible he's been practicing it on the sly, but it doesn't seem likely.  The cop's telepathy worked so easily he didn't even know he was doing it at first.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 10, 2006)

Victim said:
			
		

> Nathan mimiced the artist's future predicting paintings, sketching out the rooftop scene.  His brother didn't seem to be feeling well right before Nathan flew the second time, and when they both flew the first time, they crashed.  It seems like his power mimicry has some side effects...
> 
> And when his brother flies, he certainly picks it up instantly, even if he doesn't use it much - I suppose its possible he's been practicing it on the sly, but it doesn't seem likely.  The cop's telepathy worked so easily he didn't even know he was doing it at first.




He was already dreaming about flying long before he came into contact with Isaac.  It was how he was introduced and the first thing he told his brother.  All of which happened before he met Isaac and saw what he could do.

And you mean Peter.  Nathan is the older brother who could already fly.


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## Victim (Oct 11, 2006)

Yeah, I'm awful with names.

He drew the exact scene, including the steam coming off one of the buildings.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

He had already had the dreams that showed the events before he met Isaac though.  So, to me, that wouldn't be conclusive of him being a mimic at all.  Certainly in hindsight with the knowledge that that's where they are definately goin, sure.  But not with just what they gave us and having never read that he was going to be a mimic.  The only guy that you could conclude that for is Sylar...or who we believe to be Sylar.  And that's because he got up after being shot.  And then the void of silence if that black dude is Sylar.


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## JEL (Oct 11, 2006)

I thought it was pretty obvious that he picked up the artist's ability.

I'm thinking the guy in the bar that the police officer couldn't read is the stripper's (ex)husband.  The neckace gives it away.

The cute neighbor girl gets even more suspicious.  She keeps conveniently finding stuff and she was the only one to know about the apartment they broke into, so she must've had something to do with it getting cleaned out before they came back with the police (Sylar is apparently in LA at this time).


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

JEL said:
			
		

> I thought itt was pretty obvious, him picking up the artist's ability.




How is it obvious?  He hasn't done anything to indicate that he picked up the gift of future sight.  That drawing...the dreams all happened before he ever met Isaac.  That is not obvious.  Since he's met Isaac, all he's done is talk to his brother and try to fly.  There has been no indication that he mimicked Isaac's ability.  And I think it would be kinda hard since it requires Isaac to get high as a kite. In fact you can't really conclude that he is a mimic unless you got a spoiler.  And even with the spoiler, it's pretty hard to conclude it because they haven't indicated anything other than he should be able to fly, but can't.



			
				 JEL said:
			
		

> I'm thinking the guy in the bar that the police officer couldn't read is the stripper's (ex)husband. The neckace gives it away.




Nah.  That isn't her ex.  D.L. is being played by the guy that played Forest on Buffy.  He was in the Initiative.  I checked imdb.com the first time we saw Niki and she mentioned D.L..  The guy's name is Leonard Roberts.  But I do think that she killed those guys to help him too.


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## Phoenix8008 (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> How is it obvious?  He hasn't done anything to indicate that he picked up the gift of future sight.  That drawing...the dreams all happened before he ever met Isaac.  That is not obvious.  Since he's met Isaac, all he's done is talk to his brother and try to fly.  There has been no indication that he mimicked Isaac's ability.  And I think it would be kinda hard since it requires Isaac to get high as a kite. In fact you can't really conclude that he is a mimic unless you got a spoiler.  And even with the spoiler, it's pretty hard to conclude it because they haven't indicated anything other than he should be able to fly, but can't.



Okay, how about this theory. What if Simone (the daughter of Peter's initial patient) is somehow giving him the ability? Maybe she's like a muse, inspiring others and granting them access to the future sight. After all, Peter was with her alot more around the time of the dreams and such before he met Isaac. Also, why is Simone so prominent here if she's nothing more than the hinge of a love triangle. We haven't seen any powers from her yet, but I gotta think that she is one of the Hero's in this story eventually.

Has everyone been catching that weird symbol everywhere? On the 'silent' guy's necklace, On Claire's book in her locker, on the computer when Mo runs his dad's program, as a painting in Isaac's place? Heck I think they even made it in the pool at the crimescene house in Ep 2 out of floating piping and attachments!

Overall, I'm loving it so far. And I definately think that Mo's cute neighbor is a plant from the bad guy's organization. Like Ethan and Goodwin in Lost! Just too convenient that she keeps finding everything and that Sylar's place get's cleaned out that quickly when only her and Mo knew about it. I mean, how long does it take to go out the building and find some cops to come check out a place?

Edit: Oops! Forgot one thing. Mo's dad is alive! I base this on nothing in the series of what they have told us. I only base this on the fact that they have shown us his face now (on the back of his book) and there was no reason to do that if they didn't want us to be able to recognize him instantly when we saw him. Not to mention that you don't hire an actor like him to be nothing more that a face shot. Can't wait to see if I'm right!


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## Richards (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> There has been no indication that he mimicked Isaac's ability.  And I think it would be kinda hard since it requires Isaac to get high as a kite.



Do we know that it _requires_ Isaac to be high to see (and paint) the future, or is that just the way it's worked thus far?  I could see him believing that to be the case, but do we know for sure that that's how it works?

Johnathan


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

Richards said:
			
		

> Do we know that it requires Isaac to be high to see (and paint) the future, or is that just the way it's worked thus far? I could see him believing that to be the case, but do we know for sure that that's how it works?




Well, we don't know for sure that it does require him being high.  Only that he doesn't get them at any other time except when high.  So it is circumstantial and at this point I'm willing to believe he needs to be high.  I guess it would make sense.  He'd be more open to that sort of thing.  It has also been put forth that some of the greatest artists out there (singer, painters etc) have been at their best when high or drunk.  he also might need to be high because he just can't control it yet.  Maybe with time he won't need to get high.  A nice working progression from needing an outside factor to be loose enough to see the future and then being controlled enough to be able to induce it. 



			
				Phoenix8008 said:
			
		

> Okay, how about this theory. What if Simone (the daughter of Peter's initial patient) is somehow giving him the ability? Maybe she's like a muse, inspiring others and granting them access to the future sight. After all, Peter was with her alot more around the time of the dreams and such before he met Isaac. Also, why is Simone so prominent here if she's nothing more than the hinge of a love triangle. We haven't seen any powers from her yet, but I gotta think that she is one of the Hero's in this story eventually.





As for Simone being a hero, where does it say that she has to have abilities just because she is prominent?  She could easily be for character development.  She's the skeptic.  The girlfriend.  The motivation in as much as two people with abilites care for her.  That's all that's necessary.  I like the fact that she is an ordinary person trying to come to terms with this.  Heroes is, to me, the time before XMen.  Before the paranoia.  Before we get the tights.  These are just people.  And they are surrounded by other people who are just people.  The character of Simone would be so rich and fulfilling if they keep her role as such.  But we could find out she has abilities.  I just don't happen to think she does.  I think we would've seen more tangible proof that she has abilities.  All the characters with abilities have shown us something.



			
				Phoenix8008 said:
			
		

> Has everyone been catching that weird symbol everywhere? On the 'silent' guy's necklace, On Claire's book in her locker, on the computer when Mo runs his dad's program, as a painting in Isaac's place? Heck I think they even made it in the pool at the crimescene house in Ep 2 out of floating piping and attachments!




Oh yeah.  I've been seeing that a lot to.  It'll be interesting to see if it's just the calling card of Sylar or something more.



			
				Phoenix8008 said:
			
		

> Overall, I'm loving it so far. And I definately think that Mo's cute neighbor is a plant from the bad guy's organization. Like Ethan and Goodwin in Lost! Just too convenient that she keeps finding everything and that Sylar's place get's cleaned out that quickly when only her and Mo knew about it. I mean, how long does it take to go out the building and find some cops to come check out a place?




Yeah.  I was and still am suspicious of her.  I think she could be working for Claire's dad and is just playing dumb to both Mohinder and his dad.  Or she could be a red herring and be completely innocent.  Either way would be cool to me really.

I really like this show too.  I like how it's before we get the prejudices and all we have is that transition time of when no one knows and the moment before everyone knows.  I like this first great threat.  And how it might not even be the first great threat.  I have this feeling that the nuke might be just a side thing and the real threat will come from somewhere else.  Not the first time something like that has happened.  All in all this show is cool.  Heck, Sylar could be the red herring and the nuke be the end all.  Either way, it's all good.


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## Phoenix8008 (Oct 11, 2006)

Okay, a couple other things I just remembered. Did anyone else catch in the first episode that the train wreck Claire ran into was under the control of the Nuclear Regulatory Commision (something like that)?? I think it said it during the news broadcast. How much you wanna bet that the nuke for New York came from that train!?

Also, in Ep 3 Simone told Isaac that he was late with his comic book stuff. Could this mean that he is actually able to draw the future without being high as he thought? Or is it just that he hasn't started to make the comics about supers and future stuff yet? After all, we only know that Hiro got one 5 weeks in the future. We don't yet know if any past one's were precognitive as well. But I can just about be sure that he hasn't been drawing and writing comics all while high. Not if it's a job he's being paid for at least...


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## WayneLigon (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> How is it obvious?  He hasn't done anything to indicate that he picked up the gift of future sight.




He doesn't have to meet him, just be near him, is what I'm thinking. I think later we'll find out that Isaac was in the hospital at the same time Peter was, probably not too far from him. If not, well, this is all just idle speculation. Him duplicating someone else's ability (Isaac's ability to draw the future) isn't just something that's going to occur out of thin air for no reason: there will be a tie-in somehow.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 11, 2006)

Some other possibilities:

We don't know that Nathan was ever able to fly before, the time we saw is likely his first time and that he's just as shocked as Peter was. So a theory is that the two brothers have the power to fly when near each other and otherwise they have no powers.

On Isaac and the comics, it's quite possible that he draws the comics while not high and doesn't even know that they predict the future, that it only feels like prediction when he's high.


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## JEL (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> How is it obvious?  He hasn't done anything to indicate that he picked up the gift of future sight.  That drawing...the dreams all happened before he ever met Isaac.  That is not obvious.  Since he's met Isaac, all he's done is talk to his brother and try to fly.  There has been no indication that he mimicked Isaac's ability.  And I think it would be kinda hard since it requires Isaac to get high as a kite. In fact you can't really conclude that he is a mimic unless you got a spoiler.  And even with the spoiler, it's pretty hard to conclude it because they haven't indicated anything other than he should be able to fly, but can't.




Because it was a drawing of the future, which is what Issac's power is (and he drew it after meeting Isaac).  I think you're thinking about it too much.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 11, 2006)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> He doesn't have to meet him, just be near him, is what I'm thinking. I think later we'll find out that Isaac was in the hospital at the same time Peter was, probably not too far from him. If not, well, this is all just idle speculation. Him duplicating someone else's ability (Isaac's ability to draw the future) isn't just something that's going to occur out of thin air for no reason: there will be a tie-in somehow.




He did meet Isaac, when Simone brought Peter to the studio to help treat the overdose.

I'm a little peeved I know this (boo accidental spoilage), but pretty much this whole argument will be settled definitely next week.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 11, 2006)

Peters power might be called "Mimic", but it might still be some kind of empathy. If his brother knew that he can fly and tried it before, maybe Peter dreamed of flying because he empathically noted it. This doesn't explain why his dreams seem so similar to the scene where he tried to fly the first time. It could also be that Simones contact with the prophetic artist somehow could link the power to Peter even before he actually met him - but on the other hand, the artists power doesn't seem to manifest in dreams...

Just another thing: When are dead bodies identified? I mean, Claire was already cut open, wouldn't the parents be called before that? Or was no identification neccessary, as she had an ID or friends around that would identify her? If the parents are called before and have already seen their body, it will become very hard to conceal her powers now - maybe she will be on the run next. 

About the characters fighting abilities: Claire might not have much combat experience, but in the long term, she could learn. She is definitely physically fit (cheerleading isn't effortless  ), so she could also pick up some martial arts. But at the moment, Hiros powers seem to be the most useful...


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## mmu1 (Oct 11, 2006)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> About the characters fighting abilities: Claire might not have much combat experience, but in the long term, she could learn. She is definitely physically fit (cheerleading isn't effortless  ), so she could also pick up some martial arts. But at the moment, Hiros powers seem to be the most useful...




I don't think that's ever going to happen - for one thing, they have 5 weeks before the nuke goes off. For another, they seem to be keeping things relatively rooted in the real world, so I seriosuly doubt they're going to have a teenage girl go toe-to-toe with the bad guys. Unless she develops some other powers, but so far everyone seems to have just one unique ability.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 11, 2006)

Victim said:
			
		

> Well, never on the second one.
> 
> I think a normal person would have reflexively twisted their head at the last second and vastly reduced the significance of the injury since the stick would scrape more along the surface rather than punching straight through.  If I poke my hand on a nail, I'll usually come away with a minor scratch since I'm going to jerk my hand away.  Lacking normal awareness of pain, Claire usually isn't going to do that, so she'll probably keep pushing her hand onto the nail and not realize she drove the point through her hand until she looks at it, feels wetness from her blood, or something.  I get a tiny scratch and she impales her hand.  It's not a matter of being accident prone; it's a consequence of her pain blocking powers.
> 
> I'd expect that not feeling pain would lead to pretty much anyone having more frequent and severe injuries.



I don't think you would move your head if you don't know what is behind you. He pushed her pretty hard and a high pain tolerance or not you can't move that fast.


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## Umbran (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Well, we don't know for sure that it does require him being high.  Only that he doesn't get them at any other time except when high.  So it is circumstantial and at this point I'm willing to believe he needs to be high.




There is a long tradition in the comics of super-powered people having psychological blocks that confound or restrict use of their powers.  If Isaac first used his power when high, or recognized the linkage to paintings he did when high, he might well never think to try when he isn't.  Plus, I don't think we have any indication that he ever paints when he _isn't_ high...

In any case, that block need not carry over to someone mimicing the power.  It seems to Isaac that the thing is nigh unbelieveable, that he has not come to terms with it - it sends him into nigh panic.  But Peter _wants_ to be special.  He's seeking it out.  A very different psychological position.

And, btw, Peter mentions in the first episode having dreams of flying, and possibly waking up hovering.  He's around his brother frequently - I'll suggest that as his power has manifested he has probably weakly mimiced the flight power several times, which could account for the dreams.  

I don't have an episode summary in front of me, but as I recall, Peter goes to help Isaac with his overdose before Peter winds up in the hospital himself - the drawing comes after direct contact.  



> Heck, Sylar could be the red herring and the nuke be the end all.  Either way, it's all good.




Back in 2000, there was a short-lived series called The Others.  A small group of psychics and supernaturally powered people doing good deeds, and all that. In the final episode, all the characters die.

In Supernatural, they ended the first season by having the main characters in a big car crash, and the viewers did not know who, if any, had survived.  It was only later that the show's continuation was announced.

And now, this show has put what appears to be a nuclear detonation on the stage in Act 1.

I see a theme - if you don't know if your show is continuing into the next season - leave yourself an out such that the story can be wrapped up in a highly dramatic way.  For _Heroes_, the difference between the cases of "picked up" and "cancelled" may be five minutes at the end - when we find out if the nuke goes off or not...


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

JEL said:
			
		

> I think you're thinking about it too much.




And I don't think I'm thinking about it too much.  It just doesn't make a hard conclusion that Peter is a mimic.  You wouldn't know that if there wasn't spoilers about.  I also like to make sense of what the writers are giving me.  And, Simone being a link somehow betwixt the two is really stretching to justify the drawing and dreams.  Besides, Peter's drawing came after he tried to fly so he probably just drew what he saw at the time.  His dreams could also be his body's way of telling him that he is different.  I like to imagine that birds dream about flying.    Like I've noted before, flying is not a natural state for a human and the drive has to be there to even try.  The dreams could be that drive to push him into doing it.  Claire just has to be hurt seriously only once before she's "like WTF let me try this again."  Matt just happened upon his telepathy.  Isaac got high and looked at his drawings.  Niki blanked out and found a whole bunch of dead bodies.  And Hiro is a cubicle clerk...need I say more?   So they wouldn't need a body preparation. I think Peter would.  And if Isaac were in the hospital, chances are he'd be in some sort of forced rehab right about now.  And that doesn't jibe with the fact that Simone has been keeping his secret especially in light of Isaac's overdose she called Peter and not an ambulance.  So that also seems a stretch to me.  



			
				 Fast Learner said:
			
		

> We don't know that Nathan was ever able to fly before, the time we saw is likely his first time and that he's just as shocked as Peter was. So a theory is that the two brothers have the power to fly when near each other and otherwise they have no powers.




Actually, implicit in Nathan's talks with Peter was that he could already fly.
There was some spoilers before the show aired about Nathan possibly being Prof. Suresh's Patient Zero.  Although I'm thinking that Sylar is.  But how Wonder Twins is that?


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## buzzard (Oct 11, 2006)

Phoenix8008 said:
			
		

> Okay, a couple other things I just remembered. Did anyone else catch in the first episode that the train wreck Claire ran into was under the control of the Nuclear Regulatory Commision (something like that)?? I think it said it during the news broadcast. How much you wanna bet that the nuke for New York came from that train!?




Not that I'd put it past Hollywood, but this wouldn't explain a nuke.

First of all the NRC doesn't have anything to do with nuclear warheads. Those are the purview of the Department of Energy and Department of Defense. Even if we assume it was a train with fissile material on it there are a couple of issues:
A) Nuclear waste generally isn't capable of being made into a real nuke without some pretty serious infrastructure (centrifuges and whatnot). Also, it has to be some pretty specific nuclear waste for that to even be possible. Most waste generated is just stuff that got irradiated by being bombarded too much or by picking up radioactive salts. 
B) The vessels used to transport nuclear materials are extremely durable. You'd need someone of an extreme power level to bust into one of those in a reasonable amount of time. 

Of course the above mattering would require due dilligence on the part of the writers which I wouldn't expect. 

buzzard


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

Umbran you are right.  He did try to fly after he saw Isaac's drawing, but he only drew after he tried to fly.  That isn't prescience.  That's being on a rooftop, seeing the landscape, and then drawing stick figures about him trying to fly.  So, that really isn't conclusive of him mimicking Isaac.  That's totally after the fact and doesn't account for the dreams he's been having since before he even met Isaac.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> How is it obvious?  He hasn't done anything to indicate that he picked up the gift of future sight.  That drawing...the dreams all happened before he ever met Isaac.  That is not obvious.  Since he's met Isaac, all he's done is talk to his brother and try to fly.  There has been no indication that he mimicked Isaac's ability.  And I think it would be kinda hard since it requires Isaac to get high as a kite. In fact you can't really conclude that he is a mimic unless you got a spoiler.  And even with the spoiler, it's pretty hard to conclude it because they haven't indicated anything other than he should be able to fly, but can't.



 He drew that scene on the roof top after he met Issac. He was in the hospital when he drew it. After trying to fly


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## Arnwyn (Oct 11, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> The problem with that is there are more than nine people with powers.  Sylar's map, confirmed by Mohinder's comments, shows much more than that.
> 
> My personal theory is that Sylar consumes brains to gain powers, hence tracking the heroes on the map.  He may have originally had a power, but it's impossible to tell right now.
> 
> ...



Ooh! I like your theory better than mine, no question.


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## jonathan swift (Oct 11, 2006)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> He drew that scene on the roof top after he met Issac. He was in the hospital when he drew it. After trying to fly





Plus, at the time he was in the hospital, wasn't Peter on strong pain killers that would essentially make him high? Also, had he ever shown a penchant for drawing things before?

He didn't just draw a scene of him flying and then fulfill the basic concept, what he drew came true EXACTLY. Not flying, hovering. Someone wanting to fly wouldn't draw themselves hovering three feet off the ground.


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## Umbran (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Umbran you are right.  He did try to fly after he saw Isaac's drawing, but he only drew after he tried to fly.  That isn't prescience.  That's being on a rooftop, seeing the landscape, and then drawing stick figures about him trying to fly. So, that really isn't conclusive of him mimicking Isaac.




Conclusive, no.  But strong enough for Hollywood.

I'd have to suggest you go back and look at exactly what he drew - it wasn't him flying (or even falling) high above or with his brother.  It was him hovering only a couple feet off a surface, level with the ledge behind him.  It was a very near replica of the scene that happens shortly afterwards.  Too close for coincidence.

Plus, in TV, they don't have a lot of time for "throwaways".  They show you him drawing _for a reason_. 



> That's totally after the fact and doesn't account for the dreams he's been having since before he even met Isaac.




The dreams may have nothing to do with prescience, and may have everything to do with him unconsciously mimicing his brother's power and manifesting it in his sleep.  Then, having had the dream, he actively sets up the situation he's seen in the dream.

Note - he did _not_ actively set up the hovering scene.  He was not _trying_ to fly at that point.  He was ranting and raving and managed to fly regardless...


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## Umbran (Oct 11, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> 2) When Matt and "Sylar" (if that was him) stand-off, he shows several powers - mind-control, immunity or regeneration, and some sort of ability to make a hasty retreat.




All of these might actually be telekinesis:
He clearly uses teke to shove the woman cop against the wall.

He doesn't control the her mind - he moves her gun.  She actually tries to move it away with her other hand, so her mind is still working normally.

I don't recall that we see bullets hit, or any wounds.  We see the cop fire, and the guy fall down - telekinetic shielding.

After falling down, he doesn't get up like a normal person, he floats up.  He could then simply telekinetically lift himself away while the cop's back is truned.

All just good uses of teke, rather than separate powers.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

Peter may just be trying too hard to fly.  At any rate, I'm not saying that he isn't a mimic.  I'm saying that there is no way to even know that unless you read about it or heard about it because nothing has pointed at it...even subtly.  Without knowing that he is a mimic, you'd just say that he should be able to fly and for some reason isn't.  There is no reason to even bring up being a mimic unless you saw it somewhere.  And if you tell me that the first time you saw Peter and what he could do, you thought mimic, I'm gonna have to be skeptical.  But knowing he is a mimic in hindsight there are things that could be slapped so hard as to point to him being one.

His drawing wasn't anything spectacular or detailed.  Nothing like what Isaac can do.  At any rate, he drew after he tried to fly.  He tried to fly because he saw Isaac's painting...an incomplete painting in fact because it didn't show Nathan.  For all we know, all Isaac drew was Peter falling.  But Peter's dreams show him flying and falling and seeing Nathan, which could just be due to the fact that they are brothers and his body is trying to prepare him mentally for flight.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Besides, Peter's drawing came after he tried to fly so he probably just drew what he saw at the time.



Peter's drawing came in the second episode after he and his brother flew, after he had met Issac. The drawing he drew was that of him and his brother on a rainy rooftop. With him being a few feet away form his brother as well as a few feet off the roof.


			
				Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> His drawing wasn't anything spectacular or detailed. Nothing like what Isaac can do.



The reason for that is because he is not a skilled artist. He would mimic the superability not the other skills.


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## SoulStorm (Oct 11, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> 2) When Matt and "Sylar" (if that was him) stand-off, he shows several powers - mind-control, immunity or regeneration, and some sort of ability to make a hasty retreat.




All of the powers Syler has demonstrated can be achieved through telekinesis.  Telekinesis was used to point the gun at the FBI agent's head.  A telekinetic field protected him from the bullets, but the kinetic energy they imparted knocked him down.  The hasty retreat was likely just him flying away.  Even freezing or burning people can be achieved with telekinesis, since heat and cold are just manifestations of molecular agitation.  Slowing molecules down creates cold, speeding them up creates heat.

The question is why is he scooping people's brains out?  Let's count the possibilities.  

1. Maybe he's eating the brains and it's boosting his power.

2. Maybe he's eating the brains because he thinks or hopes that it will increase his power, or give him their powers but it really doesn't.

3. Maybe he's connected to the regenerating girl's father and he's collecting the brains for experimental purposes.  Maybe he's doing his own experimenting.

4. Maybe he's taking the brains so that autopsies of the bodies can't be used to identify the unusual brain structures that are the likely source of the powers.

5. Maybe he's just trying to kill off all the potential competition and mutilating bodies is just a hobby, you know, like collecting stamps.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 11, 2006)

Umbran said:
			
		

> After falling down, he doesn't get up like a normal person, he floats up.  He could then simply telekinetically lift himself away while the cop's back is truned.



I thought I heard shells hitting the floor and that is what drew the cops attention and he turned to just see him take off.


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## Crothian (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Peter may just be trying too hard to fly.  At any rate, I'm not saying that he isn't a mimic.  I'm saying that there is no way to even know that unless you read about it or heard about it because nothing has pointed at it...even subtly.




No one knows he's a mimic, they are guessing he is.  We won't know anything till they tell us on the TV.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

That drawing still isn't conclusive.  In his dreams he's on a rooftop above his brother. So he drew that scene and then he reenacts that scene.  Or something close to it.  The point is, he could engineer it.  So maybe if ya slap it it points to future seeing.   Isaac's future paintings are utterly independent of his action or inaction.  That bus thing would have happened, but Peter drawing that scene is something he could easily try for again. 

And there was no guessing, Crothian.  Someone stated Peter was a mimic.  I then said something about not believing it or something like that because there wasn't anything to back it up.  And the reply was something about reading his mimic status in a TVGuide.  Then huge debate and such   

But you are right, we won't know for sure until the tv tells us so.    Besides, I'm sure everyone who read the spoiler has the right of it.  And maybe they'll start doing more with his mimicry power.  I kinda wish they'd kept it to flying brothers (sounds like a circus act, no?)


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> That drawing still isn't conclusive.  In his dreams he's on a rooftop above his brother. So he drew that scene and then he reenacts that scene.  Or something close to it.  The point is, he could engineer it.  So maybe if ya slap it it points to future seeing.   Isaac's future paintings are utterly independent of his action or inaction.  That bus thing would have happened, but Peter drawing that scene is something he could easily try for again.



Just to keep this going .
When Peter was on the rooftop with his brother he didn't even realize he was floating. He was bitching at his brother and walked toward him. Only after his fit was over did his brother point out that he was floating. 

His power could also be activated by intense emotions.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

LOL...yeah we're just talking 

Anywho, yeah he didn't realize he was flying but he purposely went to that particular rooftop after he drew what he drew.  He had hoped something would happen, that he could make it happen.  That still isn't prescience.  Drawing something then following the drawing, which would be more impressive if he pulled a Hiro.  It was his own drawing.  Let him draw someone else doing something and then I'd be all over it. 

I'm inclined to believe his power is activated by intense emotion.  He just wasn't pissed off enough after his falls off the jungle gym   I;m sure we'll get more evidence, but it simply isn't there to even tease with him being a mimic.


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## ken-ichi (Oct 11, 2006)

I guess that Isaac actually gets his visions when he is in a dream or dream like state. However he is unable to capture the vision when he is asleep. However when he is awake and high, he is able to paint his visions. Maybe the terrible visions he was getting while asleep lead him to use drugs to try and escape from them even though he conciously didn't remember them.

If Nathan is a mimic, then his dreams are most likely his subconcious asserting his mimiced powers from being around his brother. Nathan drew his picture while he was in the hospital most likely doped up on some pain killers after helping Isaac after the overdose. 

I think it is more interesting if it is not a wonder twin type of thing. The fact that Peter knew he could fly, but chose not to tell his brother after his brother was getting pretty wierded out about his flying dreams tells a lot about Peter. Peter did not seem surprised that he could fly, but did seem surprised that his brother could in the hospital.


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## Umbran (Oct 11, 2006)

SoulStorm said:
			
		

> 5. Maybe he's just trying to kill off all the potential competition and mutilating bodies is just a hobby, you know, like collecting stamps.




Or, maybe Sylar knows something we didn't until recently - destroying the brain may be the only way to know, for certain, that the hero will stay dead.  The one regenerating hero we've seen does not seem to regenerate so long as her brain is disrupted...


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## Umbran (Oct 11, 2006)

ken-ichi said:
			
		

> I think it is more interesting if it is not a wonder twin type of thing.




Not to mention it being a bit close to the Wonder Twins and the old Alpha Flight characters of Northstar and Aurora.  No need to encroach too much on something that might be under defensible copyright or trademark...


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## Merlion (Oct 11, 2006)

> Even freezing or burning people can be achieved with telekinesis, since heat and cold are just manifestations of molecular agitation. Slowing molecules down creates cold, speeding them up creates heat.





I think thats a little to out there for how Heroes seems to be doing things. I mean a powerful Telekinetic can essentially do nearly anything with with physical objects and forces, matter and energy, but to me Heroes seems to be sticking to a more basic aproach...like mostly limiting Telekinesis to moving objects without touching them.

The only exception to this are Hiro's rather extreme powers, which honestly I dont much care for, mostly because I dislike time travel. usualy.

Now that its brought up, I think I agree with what some have said here: Sylar has the ability to permanently aqquire another superhuman's abilities by eating their brain. He may or may not have had an additional native power. But I dont think the frozen body was the result of telekinesis, I think he absorbed the powers of an ice-man type.


If the mind-blanked man in the bar, and the kidnapper are in fact both Sylar, that means one of a couple things: He has advanced telepathic abilities allowing him to guard his mind and/or disguise himself by illusion, and/or he has a shapeshifting or other appearance-altering power and/or he may not be telepathic fully but have just a mind-shield power.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 11, 2006)

ken-ichi said:
			
		

> I think it is more interesting if it is not a wonder twin type of thing. The fact that Peter knew he could fly, but chose not to tell his brother after his brother was getting pretty wierded out about his flying dreams tells a lot about Peter. Peter did not seem surprised that he could fly, but did seem surprised that his brother could in the hospital.




I think you have the brother names switched. The one running for ofice is Nathan, dreamer is Peter.


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## Umbran (Oct 11, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> I'm saying that there is no way to even know that unless you read about it or heard about it because nothing has pointed at it...even subtly.




I came on the idea he was mimicing powers during the episode, before I read the TV guide - my wife and I were discussing why they'd go into the depth they did with him if he was just going to have the same power, when it occurred to us that he _didn't_ have the same power.  We tossed aside the "wonder twin" option as being too hokey to be consistent with the rest of the show.  This being the next obvious option, and consistent with the available evidence. 



> That drawing still isn't conclusive.




Well, that's a good step - gone from "not even subtly" to "not conclusive" 

Hollywood isn't about being conclusive.  Here it is about playing out the possibilities along the genre conventions, and breaking them occasionally just to keep you on your toes.  Hiro is strong evidence of that being what they are up to - he's explicitly talking about how he needs to act to be a superhero, taking his cues directly from a comic book!  These guys know that their core audience will be comic book fans and their ilk.  While they want to avoid the cheese factor found in previous supers shows, they still want those fans, so they'll work it like a comic.

I guess you can call our logic rather similar to meta-gaming.  We are using the information that we are watching a superhero show to help figure out what's up.  Call it meta-analysis.


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## Victim (Oct 11, 2006)

Merlion said:
			
		

> I think thats a little to out there for how Heroes seems to be doing things. I mean a powerful Telekinetic can essentially do nearly anything with with physical objects and forces, matter and energy, but to me Heroes seems to be sticking to a more basic aproach...like mostly limiting Telekinesis to moving objects without touching them.
> 
> The only exception to this are Hiro's rather extreme powers, which honestly I dont much care for, mostly because I dislike time travel. usualy.




Yeah, having that broad of a power does seem contrary to the way the show is going.  

However, Silar (and Hiro) could be just be munchkins.   "Fine, if we only get one power, then I'm going pick the broadest one I can think."  "I'll think take ps-"  "TK!  Down to the molecular level."  "Sigh, I was going to pick psychokineses.  Dang.  _grumble grumle.  why'd he have to invite that PKing jerk?_  Fine.  I'll pick space-time control then.  Who cares if I won't be able to afford many skills or stats if I've got that maxed out - I can use my lack of skills to justify a bunch of social limitations for even for points to spend on my power."  "Yeah, those lims are a good idea.  I'm gonna take Casual Killer and some other stuff to boost the TK more."


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 11, 2006)

Possibly, however, I still think that it made more sense for Peter to have this block on flying than to be a mimic.   

And I still maintain there isn't even subtle manipulation here.  There are no tv show clues so yeah if you were just tossing stuff out there and hoping one would stick ok.  But the show hasn't led me to believe that he is a mimic.  It feels like a pulled outta the hind end conclusion, which is essentially what meta-analysis is.  

I just like analyzing what the show gives me, ya know?  Makes it more fun and interesting, especially if you're really looking for a flow.  I would be more appreciative of this leap to mimic if the show was actually doing its job and giving us miniscule and seemingly innocuous clues.  But, they didn't, so that's the only reason I'm even talking this.

And depending on how they did it two flying brothers wouldn't be hokey especially since one is all but denying that he ever flew and could ever fly.  It'd be a nice contrast between the two.  Useful as a tool for juxtaposition of ideals.  Paralleling basic belief and whatnot.  If they went that route and said Nathan represents that people know but are unwilling to acknowledge or "know" and Peter represents that step forward, I think that would be cool and unique.  

But right now you know what this show has?  It has the XMen.  Claire (Wolverine), Nathan (pick a mutant and chances are that mutant can fly), Peter (Rogue or Sync, more Sync though), Matt (Jean Grey), Hiro (oh come on, he's like 5 mutants rolled into one, talk about min-maxing), and Niki, well that chick is a fun wild card as is Isaac.  Anyone care to guess who the Prof is in this scenario? 

See how it might be more interesting if Peter was a flyer?  I like this show though.  It is awesome, and they are doing the powers better than the movies, so in no way does anything I've just written lessen the joy for me.


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## Dracomeander (Oct 11, 2006)

From the preview clip, it looks like the man squaring off with Matt in the bar is working with Claire's father. Also, I don't think that is Sylar.

The brief glimpses we got of Sylar in the chase and confrontation with Matt and the FBI lady left me with the impression that Sylar was caucasian, and the man in the bar definitely was not.

Taelorn, you did hear shells hitting the floor when Sylar floated back to his feet. That was one thing about that encounter that really disappointed me in an otherwise very well done series. It was completely the wrong sound effect. You still should have been able to hear the slugs hitting the floor, but the sound should have been duller - not the sharp ringing that was heard.


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## Ed_Laprade (Oct 11, 2006)

Phoenix8008 said:
			
		

> Okay, a couple other things I just remembered. Did anyone else catch in the first episode that the train wreck Claire ran into was under the control of the Nuclear Regulatory Commision (something like that)?? I think it said it during the news broadcast. How much you wanna bet that the nuke for New York came from that train!?
> 
> Also, in Ep 3 Simone told Isaac that he was late with his comic book stuff. Could this mean that he is actually able to draw the future without being high as he thought? Or is it just that he hasn't started to make the comics about supers and future stuff yet? After all, we only know that Hiro got one 5 weeks in the future. We don't yet know if any past one's were precognitive as well. But I can just about be sure that he hasn't been drawing and writing comics all while high. Not if it's a job he's being paid for at least...



I haven't read the couple of dozen posts after this one yet, but I've just got to comment on this. It doesn't matter. The comics are all done. They go into the publishing pipeline *three months* before they hit the stands. Five weeks is *not* three months. I'm fully expecting them to screw this up royally.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 12, 2006)

Regarding my earlier theory - it's _possible_ all of those were performed via telekinesis.  Sylar may just be rediculously powerful, and maybe the brain-eating has something to do with it.

That said, I have to agree with Merlion (which I keep reading as Marillion) regarding the freezing.  I think that's pushing a little further than his TK can go.  Possible?  Sure, but likely?  Eh, I'm not so sure.

Also, I've come to agree with the TK explanation for Clea's gun.  However, again, if his TK is so powerful, why didn't he just force her to kill herself - or freeze her for that matter.  Heck, just rip off her head with the TK.

Also, it doesn't explain the effect of Matt's bullets knocking him down adequately.

Finally, I think that his escape was a bit too quick for him to just levitate out.

Time will tell.


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## Crothian (Oct 12, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Sylar may just be rediculously powerful, and maybe the brain-eating has something to do with it.




I think you may be looking at this and expecting there to be a clear cut power level of what the characters can and can't do.  I imagine that the powers will be strong enough to do what the script requires.  I'm not really expecting a lot of consistency.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 12, 2006)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I think you may be looking at this and expecting there to be a clear cut power level of what the characters can and can't do. I imagine that the powers will be strong enough to do what the script requires. I'm not really expecting a lot of consistency.




I think you are right.  It seems to be the factor in both debates taking place in this thread.  I find that amusing and weirdly awesome.


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 12, 2006)

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novel_003.shtml


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## Victim (Oct 12, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Also, I've come to agree with the TK explanation for Clea's gun.  However, again, if his TK is so powerful, why didn't he just force her to kill herself - or freeze her for that matter.  Heck, just rip off her head with the TK.




Maybe he likes the irony of making her shoot herself?


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 12, 2006)

I don't think you appreciate how durable the neck is.  He'd have to expend a considerable amount of force to tear those strong ligaments and muscles in her neck to rip it off.  You also have to contend with her spine and such.  Far too hard and involved especially since  he was in a hurried situation.  It is infinately easier to manipulate her single arm and then her finger.  Freezing would also be hard seeing as how he'd have to lock every single muscle up and with ehr resisting and constantly telling her body to fire those muscle contractions.  

So basically, moving an arm is easier.  Locking her body and ripping her head off = hard.


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## bodhi (Oct 12, 2006)

*Hiro is my favorite*

Hiro's Blog

Note that there are spoilers for up to the last aired episode.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 12, 2006)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I think you may be looking at this and expecting there to be a clear cut power level of what the characters can and can't do.  I imagine that the powers will be strong enough to do what the script requires.  I'm not really expecting a lot of consistency.




Ever the cynic?    I agree though, that is probably more the case.  Of course, we're also arguing something we know next to nothing about, so I don't think any of on the topic really get points.



			
				Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> I don't think you appreciate how durable the neck is. He'd have to expend a considerable amount of force to tear those strong ligaments and muscles in her neck to rip it off. You also have to contend with her spine and such. Far too hard and involved especially since he was in a hurried situation. It is infinately easier to manipulate her single arm and then her finger. Freezing would also be hard seeing as how he'd have to lock every single muscle up and with ehr resisting and constantly telling her body to fire those muscle contractions.




The only point I really disagree on is the first one - I have a degree in biochemistry and worked in a hospital for several years.  Not to mention my sister always going on about massage therapy, which she has her licence in.  I'm well aware of how durable the neck is.

However, and again, we really don't know so I'm basing most of this off of my expectations and assumptions, if Sylar were so powerful as to be able to freeze someone... that is, use his power at a molecular level to stop movement of atoms... then I suspect tearing someone's head off would be easier.  So I'm not convinced it is all TK.

Personally, I just love the speculation.   

[edit] I know how to use negation in sentences!  Really!


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## Umbran (Oct 12, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> I would be more appreciative of this leap to mimic if the show was actually doing its job and giving us miniscule and seemingly innocuous clues.




Dude, several folks here have pointed out how they have given clues.  Your failure to see or accept them does not mean they aren't there.



> But right now you know what this show has?  It has the XMen.  Claire (Wolverine), Nathan (pick a mutant and chances are that mutant can fly), Peter (Rogue or Sync, more Sync though), Matt (Jean Grey), Hiro (oh come on, he's like 5 mutants rolled into one, talk about min-maxing), and Niki, well that chick is a fun wild card as is Isaac.  Anyone care to guess who the Prof is in this scenario?




Seems to me you might want to look back at the original X-men to find some of the analogs - Nathan is clearly Angel.  Peter is the one who, oddly enough, was called Mimic.  Claire and Nikki _together_ make up a Wolverine.  Without teke, or even projecting telepathy, Matt isn't much of a Jean Grey.


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## Umbran (Oct 12, 2006)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I think you may be looking at this and expecting there to be a clear cut power level of what the characters can and can't do.  I imagine that the powers will be strong enough to do what the script requires.  I'm not really expecting a lot of consistency.




Nor should you.  It isn't like the superhero genre has _ever_ been known for its consistency. 

The only reason to expect some if that in recent years, sci fi fandom has come to regard consistent canon as a major sticking point.  It probably comes along with wanting longer-term story arcs, and having former Trek-fans as critics


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## BryonD (Oct 12, 2006)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> Just another thing: When are dead bodies identified? I mean, Claire was already cut open, wouldn't the parents be called before that? Or was no identification neccessary, as she had an ID or friends around that would identify her? If the parents are called before and have already seen their body, it will become very hard to conceal her powers now - maybe she will be on the run next.




I don't think she is in a medical examiner's office.
I bet her "dad" is the one doing the work on her.


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## jonathan swift (Oct 12, 2006)

BryonD said:
			
		

> I don't think she is in a medical examiner's office.
> I bet her "dad" is the one doing the work on her.





Yeah, that was definately my assumption after seeing the preview for next week. And even before then I never thought she was getting an autopsy, just being studied by someone.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 12, 2006)

Umbran, at the most the only "clue" would possibly be the drawing.  Everything else isn't indicative of mimic and you couldn't really make the case.  In fact, someone stated they weren't basing their assumption off of the show, but were in fact using their knowledge of comics.  Also, someone else said something about reading the spoiler in a TVGuide.  So, no, there have been no clues or hints.  The other stuff has only been speculation about presumed motive on the part of the writers or some such, but no actual in show event.  And I would readily accept him being a mimic or in show reason because I like those kinds of things.  But there really hasn't been any.

The basic outline for the XMen is there.  And just because Matt, the beat cop, can't project now doesn't mean he won't ever, but there are probably more appropriate telepaths to compare him to.  I just find Jean to be the easiest.  And I don't see how Niki can be called an aspect of Wolverine.  The barest of things they have in common is the blank out and do bad stuff bit.  Except Niki's entire ability is based on that it seems.  I didn't compare Nathan to Angel because Nathan doesn't have wings.  I'd go to someone else for flight and that is a lot of mutants.  But basically you have the archetype XMen mutants here.  And I didn't say that to be all down on the show.  I love this show.

I didn't realize they were playing Peter so old.  I went to wikipedia and amazingly enough they already have long entries.  And I noticed that whoever wrote the article has Peter being 30.  What do you folks think of that?  I'm kinda surprised to be honest.  I thought they were going for younger for him.

LightPhoenix, I think I'm willing to entertain that Sylar is a representation of all their abilites.  The only real reason has almost nothing to do with what we say him doing and a lot to do with the fact that Chandra Suresh took so much interest in him.  Prof Suresh has that program and he wrote that book about unlocking abilites and the potential and stuff.  Who's to say that he and Sylar together through trial and error didn't unlock some other abilites?  Especially if Sylar was the creepy/megolamaniac/religious "I'm doing God's work" type who was one bad day away from becoming a serial killer anyways? I think he did exhibit some strong telekenesis but what if he were trying to unlock more things about himself?


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## Fast Learner (Oct 12, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Umbran, at the most the only "clue" would possibly be the drawing.  Everything else isn't indicative of mimic and you couldn't really make the case.



I thought of him picking up other people's powers all on my own, during the show, when Nathan told him, "I flew, grabbed you, you were too heavy and we both were falling, then you started flying." My _immediate_ thought was, "Wow, he's been dreaming about Nathan's power and he acquired it through touch!"

The drawing never made me think of mimic-stuff, and really, still doesn't. But Nathan's description sure did.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 12, 2006)

Nathan's comment never had me thinking he was a mimic.  It just had me thinking "Man, I can't believe Peter failed and then Nathan had to save him and the peril and adrenaline brought on was enough to get him to fly."  That has often been the MO for power discovery since the days of yore. 

But still, Nathan's comment isn't a "wow, Peter's a mimic" moment.  There's a difference between hard to find clues and then clues that are so out there as to not even be a clue.  In retrospect, sure I suppose.  I mean it's like in the Sixth Sense.  No one could really predict the ending, but all throughout that movie you got this inkling that something isn't quite right with the good doctor.  I don't even think that's even the situation here.


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## Crothian (Oct 12, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> I mean it's like in the Sixth Sense.  No one could really predict the ending, but all throughout that movie you got this inkling that something isn't quite right with the good doctor.  I don't even think that's even the situation here.




Actually, I thought the Sixth Sense was rather obvious.    But then the Usual Suspects caught me totally off guard.  Different people think and pick up on different little clues.  I never thought of the mimic idea till I read about it on the boards.  But just because I didn't see it doesn't mean I'm going to assume no one could see it.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 12, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Also, I've come to agree with the TK explanation for Clea's gun.  However, again, if his TK is so powerful, why didn't he just force her to kill herself - or freeze her for that matter.  Heck, just rip off her head with the TK.
> 
> Also, it doesn't explain the effect of Matt's bullets knocking him down adequately.
> 
> Finally, I think that his escape was a bit too quick for him to just levitate out.




Well the issue there is it would show someone got into the bldg and tore an agents head off. Where if he manipulated her habd to shoot herself, you got a stressed out agent who no one believes taking herself out.

As for the bullets knocking him down I think he was caught by surprise and was just able to get his shields up in time.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 12, 2006)

Victim said:
			
		

> Maybe he likes the irony of making her shoot herself?




Exactly, we know no one belives her about Sylar. When the cop reads her mind you get the feeling she may be depressed about no one being on her side on this. So Sylar covers his tracks, strung out agent shoosts herself.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 12, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> But still, Nathan's comment isn't a "wow, Peter's a mimic" moment.  There's a difference between hard to find clues and then clues that are so out there as to not even be a clue.



For you, apparently not. Seriously, though, that doesn't mean it wasn't for me. Like Croth, my gf picked up on _The Sixth Sense_'s secret the moment he appeared after being shot. She said to me in the theater, "Oh, I get it!" I asked her to be quiet and don't say a word to me.

We all interpret things differently. That you didn't interpret Nathan's description that way is perfectly reasonable, as is the fact that I did.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 12, 2006)

I don't think you are quite getting what I said about the Sixth Sense thing.  Everyone knew something was up.  I knew there was something up and you probably did too as you watched that movie.  Most everyone knew something was up in that movie, no matter how dense you think you are.  Maybe not the exact thing but that movie was littered with a whole bunch of stuff.  And yeah people pick up on different things and put them together differently.  I'm saying that there isn't sufficient reasoning in Heroes to say that Peter is a mimic. That's it.  Every one of the supposed reasonings that people say point to Peter being a mimic isn't really there.  However, in Sixth Sense there is a logical progression for your gf to say "oh yeah".  Not so in Heroes.

Mostly it's speculation.  A gut feeling without some sort of evidence to back it up.  That's a guess that panned out, not a well reasoned argument.  And, before you say it or think it, I am not disparaging anyone here.  I'm just sayin'.  And people pick up on things I don't all the time.  It's no big deal.  And if that was the case here, I really wouldn't be arguing or debating it.  But I suppose we are at odds here and that's fine too.  So it's all good.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 12, 2006)

Indeed it is.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 12, 2006)

Anywho, do you think Claire is gonna really do something to the quarterback?  Or do you think her basic decency is gonna shine through and she chicken out at the end?  I'm thinkin' it could go either way.  What say you?


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## Ei (Oct 13, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Anywho, do you think Claire is gonna really do something to the quarterback?  Or do you think her basic decency is gonna shine through and she chicken out at the end?  I'm thinkin' it could go either way.  What say you?





Well, if you have seen the previews 



Spoiler



she’s going to lock her self and the QB in the car and drive into a wall. Guess which one of them will suffer serious injuries


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 13, 2006)

Nah, didn't see the full preview.  Just the hint of her doing something to him.  Didn't know if she was gonna go all the way and do something tragic.


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## Ei (Oct 13, 2006)

In regards to Hiro's extreme power, I have the feeling the bulk of it will be used as plot devices.  He's actual abilities will mostly consist of short distance teleportation or time stop for a short period.  No Prince of Persia style time rewinding.

And he apparently has a fairly long casting time and takes a great deal of concentration, so syler or whoever can probably easily disrupt his casting.

IMO Peter is empth, not only dose he mimic power, he seems to get some of the target’s emotions and personalities as well. And if the nose bleed after beating Nathan is any indication, if the person he’s “sync” to gets hurt, he gets hurt as well, which fits the whole empathy thing.


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## JEL (Oct 13, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> And I don't think I'm thinking about it too much.  It just doesn't make a hard conclusion that Peter is a mimic.  You wouldn't know that if there wasn't spoilers about.




Actually, I figured it out before anything was 'spoiled.'


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## bodhi (Oct 13, 2006)

Ei said:
			
		

> And he apparently has a fairly long casting time and takes a great deal of concentration,



From Hiro's Blog:
"After my MP regenned, (it took a while before I could stop time again) I tried it again and I was able to stop time just a bit longer."



			
				Ei said:
			
		

> so syler or whoever can probably easily disrupt his casting.



And just a bit later in the blog:
"How do I get XP? Hmm. Oh no. How would I fight an enemy? ((T.T; )(; T.T)) I can't really fight. No weapons. My current spells would be Quick, Return, and Teleport. I think my Teleport would work on boss fights. I hope."

Hiro is *so* one of us.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 13, 2006)

bodhi said:
			
		

> From Hiro's Blog:
> "After my MP regenned, (it took a while before I could stop time again) I tried it again and I was able to stop time just a bit longer."
> 
> 
> ...




HAHA!  That is hilarious.  I wonder what his home looks like?


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## mmu1 (Oct 13, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> HAHA!  That is hilarious.  I wonder what his home looks like?




It's not just the character that has solid nerd credentials - the actor's IMDB page lists him as a "digital artist" for all three SW prequels, T3, Hulk, War of the Worlds, and Dead Man's Chest.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:
			
		

> Nah, didn't see the full preview.  Just the hint of her doing something to him.  Didn't know if she was gonna go all the way and do something tragic.




Clair seems to be just like any other teenager, she really just wants to fit in and be like every one else. And when things don't go her way she will act out without thinking. Now that people think she is dead she really can't fit in anywhere. Time to move to New York


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## WanderingMonster (Oct 13, 2006)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Clair seems to be just like any other teenager, she really just wants to fit in and be like every one else. And when things don't go her way she will act out without thinking. Now that people think she is dead she really can't fit in anywhere. Time to move to New York




New York?

If I were a perky, blonde teenager (oh...if only!),  I would head to the West Coast, stopping off in Vegas.  All roads lead to Las Vegas.

And I just have to say that the writers must get a macabre kick out of "how are we going to mangle Claire this episode?"


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 13, 2006)

WanderingMonster said:
			
		

> New York?
> 
> If I were a perky, blonde teenager (oh...if only!),  I would head to the West Coast, stopping off in Vegas.  All roads lead to Las Vegas.
> 
> And I just have to say that the writers must get a macabre kick out of "how are we going to mangle Claire this episode?"




As well they should.  I find it awesome.  I wish they had done more of that to Wolverine in the movies, but eh.


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## SoulStorm (Oct 13, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> However, and again, we really don't know so I'm basing most of this off of my expectations and assumptions, if Sylar were so powerful as to be able to freeze someone... that is, use his power at a molecular level to stop movement of atoms...




I wouldn't necessarily call molecular level TK powerful.  It seems more like an example of finesse to me.  Still, I agree that he probably wouldn't have too much difficulty ripping off a head.

Using TK to make the FBI agent shoot herself is about instilling fear.  Feeling like someone else has complete and utter control over ones actions is terrifying and psychopaths enjoy terrorizing their victims as much as they enjoy killing them.  

I still think Sylar escaped by flying away.  If he has high power TK, he should be able to fly very fast.


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## Ei (Oct 13, 2006)

WanderingMonster said:
			
		

> New York?
> 
> If I were a perky, blonde teenager (oh...if only!),  I would head to the West Coast, stopping off in Vegas.  All roads lead to Las Vegas.
> 
> And I just have to say that the writers must get a macabre kick out of "how are we going to mangle Claire this episode?"




Lol, there you go, good chance to meet Hiro and the gangs.  Who knows, maybe Hiro and Ando will pick up a blonde hitchhiker with that Nissan Versa of theirs (or 2 if her camera geek buddy is coming along, he’s probably a comic book/star trek/rpg geek too)


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## bodhi (Oct 14, 2006)

Ei said:
			
		

> Lol, there you go, good chance to meet Hiro and the gangs.  Who knows, maybe Hiro and Ando will pick up a blonde hitchhiker with that Nissan Versa of theirs (or 2 if her camera geek buddy is coming along, he’s probably a comic book/star trek/rpg geek too)



Ooh! I want a scene of Hiro and Zack (Claire's AV club friend) telling each other about their D&D characters.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 14, 2006)

Bodhi, that might be too geeky for the casual viewer; but oh how that would be inutterably cool!


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