# Blatant Self-Promotion of Story Hours?



## Wisdom Penalty (Oct 8, 2004)

*i don't think players of a story hour should post/bump their DM's tale to self-promote it.*

im all for players posting on their DM's thread if they have something substantial to offer readers, but barely veiled posts that do nothing more than bump their DM's story seem childish and uncessary. "wow! this is a GREAT read! i love that elf sorceress, she's awesome...oh wait - that's my character. ha ha ha...." blech.

all of this seems too incestuous a relationship for me. we are starting to see quite a bit of that sort of thing, and we're also seeing story hour authors who engage in quid-pro-quo bumps/posts; in other words, they do the old "ill post in your thread if you post in mine" bit. 

normally this wouldn't bother me - except that this self-pimping cycle has resulted in the front page being cluttered with the same ill-fated stories. folks who write without self-pimping see their own (often better) stories drift backward into the nether of page four. 

not fair, i say. but that's just me. what about you?

W.P.


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## Droid101 (Oct 8, 2004)

Wisdom Penalty said:
			
		

> recently on destan's story hour
> _snip..._



I agree with you.  In my opinion, the only time a story hour thread should be posted in is if:

A) you are adding a new update. 
B) you are asking a question about something in the story.  
C) you are answering a question that was asked about the story.  
D) it is your first time reading, and you want to tell the person you like their story [this should be done only once].  
E) you are a player in that story, and want to let others know this [this should be done only once].
F) you have a relevant detail about what happened in the story, and wish to share it.

That's my stand.

Being a story hour author, I'm lucky because I update the story almost every day, so my thread will never sink to the bottom, even without *bump* posts.

Not that anyone posts in my story hour, anyway.... but I'm not bitter.


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## Rel (Oct 8, 2004)

Meh, this sort of thing doesn't bother me at all.  Frankly I don't see a whole lot of it in the Story Hours that I read, not from the players themselves anyway.

And I definately am in favor of people letting me know that they are still reading, even if they don't post anything terribly substantive.  If they just pop in and say, "Still loving this story hour!  Keep up the good work!", that makes me feel great.  

I post somewhat similar stuff myself though usually with a more detailed comment if not a question.  I'll say, "I love the descriptions you've given to the Demon spawn.  Those guys sound nasty!" instead of just "lovin' it!"

As far a Bumps in general and from players in particular, I find that I sometimes get in a bit of a writing slump and won't update for several weeks.  Having someone pop in and just say, "Hey, Rel, when are we going to get some more of this cool Story Hour?" helps keep the fire lit under me.

So I got no problem with it.  Bump all you want, I say.


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## BSF (Oct 8, 2004)

Hmm, I have been known to bump threads from time-to-time.  Often I try to make it vaguely relevant.  Sometimes I blatantly bump just to let the author know I am still grooving on the story.  I try not to be annoying about it though.  However, I am mostly interested in not annoying the author.  I want them to know I like the story and would be happy to see more, but I don't want to whine about not having an update.

As far as player bumping, or quid-pro-quo, it doesn't bother me really.  There are a lot of stories out there.  I think that all the story hour authors should be proud of their efforts and should try to drum up a little bit of an audience.  

To put it another way, your story can stand on it's own merit.  That's great.  But as a reader, I might not ever see it.  I don't have time to read them all so I am a bit selective and I try to add a few here and there to my "must-read" lists.  So the more activity you have related to your story hour, the more likely I am to notice it.  Links in .sigs, the fact that I happen to find your posts compelling in other messageboard areas, the fact that I notice somebody posting in it, the fact that you shamelessly pimp it yourself, whatever it takes.  

So I don't find it annoying at all.  It just keeps stuff moving on the front page of the Story Hour forum a lot faster.


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## Wisdom Penalty (Oct 10, 2004)

i made a booboo.  upon further review, the post i was referring too that was the last straw wasn't in actuality one of the players in the sins campaign - he was just another fan. sorry about that.

but my point still stands. 

W.P.


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## ragboy (Oct 10, 2004)

I don't know. At this level of writing, everyone needs to know that someone out there is liking/disliking their story hour. Feedback is pretty much our 'payment,' and 'fame' in lieu of getting bags of money and bothered every time we go to public places. The episodic nature of story hours makes it almost imperative that feedback comes after every episode. And whether you're a player commenting on how well the writer is capturing the mood or a 'paid off' story hour writer, separating those from the simply captivated readers that just want to give you quick feedback ("Great SH!") is too difficult to determine and, frankly, not that big a deal.


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## Terwox (Oct 10, 2004)

I don't read many story hours, but the ones I have read, I've been really happy when the players popped in for a little bit to discuss things -- like when Jo popped in to talk about Jonrog's dark*matter campaign, and Lombard drops by to talk about playing Eadric.

As to the whole "only bump once" ... no way!  Getting continual feedback from a single person is a big part of keeping going, or at least it would be for me if I could ever actively write a SH.


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## Lazybones (Oct 10, 2004)

Reader feedback is one of the things that keeps me going in my Story Hour.  I don't have players (my SH is entirely fictionalized), so I don't have to worry about that, but I do appreciate bumps, praise, questions, critiques, suggestions, and other feedback.  As for the front page being "cluttered," I guess it's just a question of taste; the better SHs get more attention and all the bumps in the world isn't going to get a mediocre store more readers.  I mean, Sepulchrave and Piratecat probably get hundreds of bumps/non-essential posts for every actual story update they post.  Does it bother me?  Not in the least.  As for other threads that may be considered (by some) "less deserving", again I don't think it matters.  I usually know within 1-2 posts if I'm going to be reading a SH over the long term, and a hundred bumps aren't going to change that.

Where I might agree with the original poster is if the bumps become spam, i.e. if a author or reader bumps the thread every few hours to keep it on the top.  But I haven't seen any threads that reflect that.


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## Rebecca M (Oct 10, 2004)

It doesn't bother me at all.  Even before I began posting, I enjoyed it when other players posted.  It's nice to have interaction between the readers and the "characters."  That's what makes a message board different from a novel.  I've also been known to post in my DMs story hour.  Sometimes I've clarified a point or answered a question, other times I've just said "nice job."  The people who write these stories put a lot of effort into them and they should know that it's appreciated--at the very least by their own group.  Along those lines, I think anyone should post in any story hour if an update is particularly intriguing and they want to compliment the author on a job well done, even if they've said it in relation to a previous segment.  Of course, there's the potential for people to go overboard with self-promotion, but it's not something I've seen on here.


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## Joachim (Oct 10, 2004)

Rebecca M said:
			
		

> It doesn't bother me at all.  Even before I began posting, I enjoyed it when other players posted.  It's nice to have interaction between the readers and the "characters."  That's what makes a message board different from a novel.  I've also been known to post in my DMs story hour.  Sometimes I've clarified a point or answered a question, other times I've just said "nice job."  The people who write these stories put a lot of effort into them and they should know that it's appreciated--at the very least by their own group.  Along those lines, I think anyone should post in any story hour if an update is particularly intriguing and they want to compliment the author on a job well done, even if they've said it in relation to a previous segment.  Of course, there's the potential for people to go overboard with self-promotion, but it's not something I've seen on here.




I couldn't put it any better myself.  The interaction between the readership, the author (or in the case of our Story Hour, authors), and the characters is what makes the Story Hour worth writing.  Otherwise, what's the point of spending hours upon hours writing the stuff?  We're not getting paid to do this, we (despite what anyone else here might attest) are only doing it to share the story and *for the praise*.  Anyone who claims otherwise is kidding themselves.  

Quite often, a lot of the recognition the writer receives comes from the circle of friends that are playing the game with him/her.

My 2 cents...


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## Plane Sailing (Oct 11, 2004)

I love seeing reader feedback of *any* kind in my own and other peoples storyhours. Those who give me feedback are typically one-liners, but then again I'm not writing on the epic scale and skill of some of the better known storyhour authors, nor do I plumb fascinating philosophical depths - it's just the account of a typical D&D campaign (although possibly one with a worryingly high mortality rate )

I dislike seeing a post that just says "bump", as though being near the top of the listing is important or something, especially in threads that I like reading.

Just personal opinions here.


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## Morte (Oct 11, 2004)

Feedback, commentary, questions, answers, advice, praise, jokes, gossip, interesting tangents: fine, excellent, wonderful.

The word "bump" and nothing more: burn 'em at the stake.

Some people take out subscriptions to SH threads they like so they'll be notified by email when there's a new post. Imagine how pleased they are when they come and find the word "bump".

If you're going to post, post something that somebody (not necessarily everybody) might be glad of reading. Even if your sole purpose is to bump the SH, make it worth reading and that'll be fair exchange for the readers' time.

[I'm not really this grumpy. Just undiplomatic.]


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## Droid101 (Oct 11, 2004)

Morte said:
			
		

> Feedback, commentary, questions, answers, advice, praise, jokes, gossip, interesting tangents: fine, excellent, wonderful.
> 
> The word "bump" and nothing more: burn 'em at the stake.



I hereby change my view, and agree with Morte.


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## Nifft (Oct 11, 2004)

I like players posting in story hours. I prefer player-driven story hours, actually, with the DM dropping in to bump it every now and again.

Someone just typing "bump" to keep a story on page one forever? Shoot 'em. Player or DM or just another reader. There are a lot of story hours here. Don't bump stuff more than once per week at the most.

 -- N


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## the Jester (Oct 11, 2004)

I think that feedback is the water that lets a story hour grow, keeps it alive and keeps it flowing.  

Even a simple 'bump' is feedback- it shows that someone is reading, which is important; nothing motivates me more than seeing some feedback from others, than knowing that someone not in the game is reading.

I have _no problem_ with bumps, though I prefer it when there's some kind of comment, question, etc other than just 'bump' involved.


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## Darklone (Oct 12, 2004)

I'm bumping a lot... not in any SHs though where I play (because there aren't any here).

I don't see players bumping SHs in the way that you describe. And I do like to read players POVs or comments about the story. It's all a matter of post quality, I guess.


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## Silver Moon (Oct 12, 2004)

I have always enjoyed reader and player feedback.  It helps to show that the efforts are appreciated.   

My current Western Story Hour is from a Play-by-Post game, so the players comment in the out-of-game thread for it rather in than the ENWorld Story Hour.   On the other hand, the game has been so fast paced (we're averaging around 200 posts a week) that I've been able to keep the story on the first page of this forum just with new chapter updates, so haven't needed any bumps.


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## LordVyreth (Oct 12, 2004)

Speaking as someone who would kill to get any reader feedback for his story hour, I have to say that the more feedback, by players and readers, the better.


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## Piratecat (Oct 12, 2004)

This is a great opportunity to remind folks that:

(a) even a note to say "I really liked this!" or "How did you handle this?" is a huge gift to a storyhour author

and

(b) if people are finding their SHs cluttered by comments, drop me a line at "kevin AT kulp DOT org" and I'll temporarily give you rights to delete unneeded bumps and comments.


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## ledded (Oct 12, 2004)

Feedback is the fuel for many Story Hour efforts;  most folks have day jobs that write these, and while many make it look easy, I know for myself that comments (for good or ill) from people who are reading mine help me to shove that fat, lazy slob that is my muse off of the couch and put him to work in the few hours I get to do it.

I personally havent had a problem with people just tossing a 'bump' into mine, most people at least comment in some way, and irregardless of how I may quip or joke I take every single last comment seriously, because one of the reasons I post a SH is to make myself a better writer.

Pimping or promoting a Story Hour is one of the ways that people actually hear about it also.  Putting a link to it in a sig, mentioning it in another forum thread, or merely posting in a story hour itself if you are a well-known member of these forums has a great effect.  There are many Story Hours I would have never seen had they not been in someone's sig or been mentioned by them in a thread that I participated in.  Piratecat was nice enough to post a couple small, succinct comments in my Story Hour when it was first getting off the ground which not only made me feel that I was at least not completely wasting my time and everyone's bandwidth, but I also credit with drawing several folks into taking a look at it (thanks again, PCat  ).  Things like that were especially helpful for me because I was writing something that was so far removed from what the average reader of Story Hours seemed to prefer that I worried that no one would ever notice it.

I like to see the interactions between the characters/players in the story and the author also, some very good conversations about playing and fun tangents can come from that.  Sure, pure self-aggrandizement and bumping for the purpose of just keeping a story on page one might be annoying, but I've rarely ever noticed it, at least to levels that it bothered me in any way.  I guess I probably just ignore it if I'm actually interested in the story, or I don't read stories that it is a major issue in.

And as par as quid-pro-quo, I am honestly more likely to check out a story hour if the author has posted a comment in mine, but not *just* because I feel like I need to return the favor.  Admittedly, I will read a story hour if someone has read mine, but I wont post something unless I feel like there is something I honestly need to say.  If that's bad, than color me bad, but that just happens to be part of the dynamic for how I follow stories/threads is sometimes, and when I read something I enjoy I like to give encouragement;  there are a lot of good stories on these boards and several have faded away because people frankly didnt appreciate them.

So I can see how self-pimping by an author or the SH's players can get out of hand or annoy someone, but without some of it I probably would not have found some of the best stories on these boards, and helped encourage those little-known 'fringe' authors to post further efforts in other Story Hours.  

I could post a couple of good examples of this phenomenon, but then I'd be pimping  

All that being said, maybe I should start a thread asking how people most often find out about a Story Hour that has become their favorite.  Or search for one, I'm sure this has come up sometime recently and I just dont remember.


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## Shemeska (Oct 12, 2004)

*Vain Yugoloth... who would have guessed? >*

I may be a feedback whore in some ways, however I've never complained when I didn't get any feedback between storyhour updates. That has been fairly few and far between lately, makes me smile. *glee*

However aside from the feedback I'm writing it also because I simply like the story that's been developing in that campaign over the past two years and this now gives me the opportunity to fill in material that happened behind the scenes away from the PCs. And, as one one of my players mentioned to me last night, they 'finally get to see what all the hell Clueless was up to' half the time away from the rest of the party. So it's giving a story to read to most of my players as well, not just people curious about the campaign.

That and it gives me a chance to get better at writing, which I'd like to do. Even if I don't have any illusions about ever getting paid to do this, I enjoy it nonetheless and it's fun.

However, I'll admit that the other storyhours that I pay attention to, either every week or just periodically, I'm horrific about actually posting on rather than just lurking and enjoying. I'm also more likely to be reading a storyhour based on the setting or if I've met you irl before. *cough*Rel*cough*


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## Rel (Oct 12, 2004)

Shemeska said:
			
		

> However, I'll admit that the other storyhours that I pay attention to, either every week or just periodically, I'm horrific about actually posting on rather than just lurking and enjoying. I'm also more likely to be reading a storyhour based on the setting or if I've met you irl before. *cough*Rel*cough*




So YOU'RE the reason that my "views" count has been going up nearly 100 a day for the last week when I was updating one or more times a day!  Well that answers that!  Now quit reading this and go over there and bump my story hour without adding any useful comments or questions!


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