# Superheroes of the Trust OOC Thread II



## DM_Matt (May 15, 2008)

New thread...


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## kirinke (May 15, 2008)

New reply.....


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## Vanifae (May 15, 2008)

Hello.


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## Shayuri (May 15, 2008)

Doom...DOOM!

So yeah. I'm thinking for this spell, some kind of area Counter against all Blasts with a technological origin.

Would that mess the rest of us up? Seems like only Optic uses a lot of tech...and I'm not sure his blast is technological...


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 15, 2008)

sleeeeeeeeeep


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## Jemal (May 16, 2008)

Optic's blast itself isn't technological, it's mutant, but the visor enhances it (4 ranks and 2X accurate..)  Without the visor my blast is rank 8 with only a +6 attack.
Not sure if our storyteller would consider that a 'technological blast'..


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## DM_Matt (May 16, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Optic's blast itself isn't technological, it's mutant, but the visor enhances it (4 ranks and 2X accurate..)  Without the visor my blast is rank 8 with only a +6 attack.
> Not sure if our storyteller would consider that a 'technological blast'..




The Cisor is technological, so the part enhanced by the visor is subject to nullify tech.  The first 8 ranks and 6 attack are not affected.


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## Victim (May 17, 2008)

It also sounds like a limiter on power (in the formal energy/time sense) would affect a lot more than technological blasts.  

If Viridian wants to fry electrical gadgets, a spell that increases heat loss from resistance might be fun.  Microcircuitry would probably fry itself.  However, that still wouldn't do anything for guns or exotic technologies.

However, comic book science and all that.


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2008)

The problem with monkeying with fundamental properties of matter like that is that you have to make them highly exceptioned. For example, if the general property of electrical resistance was increased across the board, then the increase in heat build up would affect more than just delicate integrated circuits. Messing with stuff like that could yield powerful results...but also has a huge potential for unintended side effects and so on.

At least in my conception of magic. Another way of looking at magic is more like, "I want guns to stop working...magic make it so!"

And that's equally valid, really.


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## Elric (May 18, 2008)

Is anyone else having a problem with email notifications on threads they've subscribed to?  I'm not getting any emails from ENW when people post and since that's how I usually keep up with the game it's strange to have to come over to check if someone has posted


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## kirinke (May 18, 2008)

Victim said:
			
		

> It also sounds like a limiter on power (in the formal energy/time sense) would affect a lot more than technological blasts.
> 
> If Viridian wants to fry electrical gadgets, a spell that increases heat loss from resistance might be fun.  Microcircuitry would probably fry itself.  However, that still wouldn't do anything for guns or exotic technologies.
> 
> However, comic book science and all that.





How about a spell that turns things into solid blocks of whatever it is they're made of? Make it selective and you could have alot of fun with it....

Or you could go with a simple displacement or blur spell that affects both machines and people. That would well be in keeping with Vi's more defensive approach. 

Another good idea: A spell that 'turns off' electronics and anything technological. Also with the selective rider on it. Simple but potentially devestating. And that could simply be an offshoot of Vi's TK ability/spell.


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## Victim (May 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> The problem with monkeying with fundamental properties of matter like that is that you have to make them highly exceptioned. For example, if the general property of electrical resistance was increased across the board, then the increase in heat build up would affect more than just delicate integrated circuits. Messing with stuff like that could yield powerful results...but also has a huge potential for unintended side effects and so on.




And you think capping energy discharge rates will have fewer side effects?


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2008)

Sure. I can't think offhand of many naturally occurring rapid discharges of high energy. Lightning bolts, maybe. Astrophysical phenomenon that's well outside the spell range. 

Do you know of anything that might fit into that category?


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## kirinke (May 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Sure. I can't think offhand of many naturally occurring rapid discharges of high energy. Lightning bolts, maybe. Astrophysical phenomenon that's well outside the spell range.
> 
> Do you know of anything that might fit into that category?




Power plants, certain scientific devices like the ones that bash electrons together.....  To name a few.


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## Jemal (May 18, 2008)

This can't be solved until we decide whether magic is a science (In terms of this campaign).  if it isn't, then what happens just happens b/c magic said so.  If it is, then we have to come up with scientific reasoning... or rather comic book science.


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## Victim (May 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Sure. I can't think offhand of many naturally occurring rapid discharges of high energy. Lightning bolts, maybe. Astrophysical phenomenon that's well outside the spell range.
> 
> Do you know of anything that might fit into that category?




Non technological powers?  They're not exactly natural, but considering the intended use (especially radius and duration) of the spell, they seem far more likely to come up.  A super STR punch is still involves lots of energy in little time.


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## kirinke (May 19, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> This can't be solved until we decide whether magic is a science (In terms of this campaign).  if it isn't, then what happens just happens b/c magic said so.  If it is, then we have to come up with scientific reasoning... or rather comic book science.




I prefer the former rather than the latter. Trying to come up with scientific reasoning can be a pain in the tuushie if you ask me. Plus, it'll frazzle the scientific minded in the group.

_"THAT's not possible!"_

"For a mage, the will is everything. It shapes and creates, destroys and shatters. Will is what powers the magic and gives it form."


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## Shayuri (May 19, 2008)

Victim said:
			
		

> Non technological powers?  They're not exactly natural, but considering the intended use (especially radius and duration) of the spell, they seem far more likely to come up.  A super STR punch is still involves lots of energy in little time.




I would think it would be considerably less energy, and in more time, than...say, a laser beam or an explosion...but honestly, once we get to the point where we have to count the joules of energy released per nanosecond to see what is over or under the cap, then something more basic is a problem. 

My goal in this is not to open up the proposed spell to pseudoscientific nitpicking...and since that seems to be what it's doing, perhaps it's best to do as Krinke suggests and just handwave the explanation entirely.


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## Raylis (May 19, 2008)

Elric said:
			
		

> Is anyone else having a problem with email notifications on threads they've subscribed to?  I'm not getting any emails from ENW when people post and since that's how I usually keep up with the game it's strange to have to come over to check if someone has posted




I have been...I thought its really wierd no one had replied for a couple days only to find out I was a couple days behind


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## DM_Matt (May 19, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> This can't be solved until we decide whether magic is a science (In terms of this campaign).  if it isn't, then what happens just happens b/c magic said so.  If it is, then we have to come up with scientific reasoning... or rather comic book science.




Definitely primarily a science (mostly in the execution, a little less so in its effects), although it doesn't work for everyone.  Why some people can use it and others cannot is unknown.  You don't need good science to explain it though.  Just pick an option.


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## Victim (May 19, 2008)

I was only discussing the details of the special effect since that's what Viridian seemed interested in doing.


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## Shayuri (May 19, 2008)

The problem is that, pretty much no matter what tack one takes, eventually it still reaches a point where you still have to shrug and say, "It's magic."

The only thing one accomplishes with fancy explanations is increasingly torturous logic...that still leads to the same result.

Given that, it seems to me that having Thess discuss the 'science' of what the magic is doing was probably a mistake.


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## Victim (May 29, 2008)

The team's communications are blown since the Israelis have Star's comlink and phone.


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## Elric (May 29, 2008)

I find it very strange that Star got so blasted by all of those guns.  Assuming she was using All-Out Movement, her Defense is 29 (15 flat-footed Defense +2 per rank in Flight= 15+14).  How good are these guns, anyway?


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## Victim (May 29, 2008)

I think a +9 Con bonus might be Star's most useful power.


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## DM_Matt (May 29, 2008)

Elric said:
			
		

> I find it very strange that Star got so blasted by all of those guns.  Assuming she was using All-Out Movement, her Defense is 29 (15 flat-footed Defense +2 per rank in Flight= 15+14).  How good are these guns, anyway?




I did not include bonuses for All-Out Movement.  She said nothing about that (and I didn't think of it).  But, I'm now giving Star a hero point for getting captured.  And btw, the two that hit her rolled 19s.


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## kirinke (May 29, 2008)

So, they think we're working for Barrington.... Not an illogical assumption, but hay, maybe we can convince them otherwise.


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## Victim (Jun 4, 2008)

Hmmm.


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## Shayuri (Jun 4, 2008)

Thess doesn't know that's what they think for sure, but she's hoping to use an illusion to clear up any misunderstandings...that's why she suggested it.

I should probably give her a more flexible remote viewing spell...useful for targeting these Perception effects... 

Hee.


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## Victim (Jun 7, 2008)

I hope that really is a regenerator.

EDIT: Btw, I think trying to crash vehicles would be Air Control/TK versus the vehicle's STR.


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## DM_Matt (Jun 7, 2008)

Victim said:
			
		

> EDIT: Btw, I think trying to crash vehicles would be Air Control/TK versus the vehicle's STR.




Indeed it would be.


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## Victim (Jun 10, 2008)

And inside the base...?


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 10, 2008)

What happened to my action?


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## DM_Matt (Jun 10, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:
			
		

> What happened to my action?




My mistake.  Sorry about that.  Id retroactively add it, but that would just entail you spending a hero point unnecessarily.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 10, 2008)

Not if we can get our plane back in working order quicker.


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## DM_Matt (Jun 10, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:
			
		

> Not if we can get our plane back in working order quicker.




Oh, right, I'll add it.


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## Victim (Jun 14, 2008)

Is the forcefield like a sphere that's cut off by the ground - possibly allowing some type of underground attack?  The stone guy who created the sandstorm might be helpful there.


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## DM_Matt (Jun 14, 2008)

Victim said:
			
		

> Is the forcefield like a sphere that's cut off by the ground - possibly allowing some type of underground attack?  The stone guy who created the sandstorm might be helpful there.




Good idea, but it is pretty clear the the force field has a bottom.


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## Victim (Jun 14, 2008)

So did the force field bend to accomodate the ground, or is it set high enough off the ground that it never touches it (and thus leaving the feet exposed)?


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## kirinke (Jun 14, 2008)

I guess the force field is continuous..... What would have an effect on such a thing? Cosmic Energy? Magic?


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## Victim (Jun 15, 2008)

Punching?  Doesn't that always work?


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## Shayuri (Jun 15, 2008)

Seems like swords or knives usually can stab through sci fi force fields....

Meep. I could try TK'ing something through it. Not sure. Big machines really aren't her specialty.


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## Victim (Jun 15, 2008)

So it looks like we could get past the field by hijacking a vehicle or messing with the teleport reception.


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## kirinke (Jun 15, 2008)

D'oh. Liquifaction. Quicksand. If we supersaturate the ground under the machine with water, then it'll sink!


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## DM_Matt (Jun 15, 2008)

kirinke said:
			
		

> D'oh. Liquifaction. Quicksand. If we supersaturate the ground under the machine with water, then it'll sink!




The ships own gravity drives are enough to keep it from sinking like that (Its use of those on the vehicles it carried just ensured that it could carry so much cargo)

And btw, you know the bubble extends downward because it displaced sand when it landed.  Without looking closer and seeing under the sand, it is not clear if the legs are inside or outside the field, or if they extend or reshape it.


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## DM_Matt (Jun 16, 2008)

Sooooo....


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## Victim (Jun 23, 2008)

Jemal said he'd be absent from his games for a bit as per this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=232506

I added that Displacement thing to my sheet.


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## Victim (Jun 27, 2008)

Yay, back in business.


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## Elric (Jun 27, 2008)

Victim, you might want to consider spending an HP to buy Star down to fatigued from exhausted.  Also, I'll be traveling for the next week but I should be able to post fairly regularly.  If I'm not around Matt should just play for me.  The new board looks pretty spiffy.


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## Victim (Jun 27, 2008)

Elric said:


> Victim, you might want to consider spending an HP to buy Star down to fatigued from exhausted.  Also, I'll be traveling for the next week but I should be able to post fairly regularly.  If I'm not around Matt should just play for me.  The new board looks pretty spiffy.




Yeah, I was thinking about it.  If she's just trying to hit objects and has Wren's Create Object covering her, then it's not as much of a priority.  I'll probably spend the HP once something cracks it.


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## Victim (Jun 28, 2008)

We normally seem a bit slow on weekends, and then it seems like there's additional delays from the summer and the board rebuild.


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## DM_Matt (Jun 29, 2008)

Victim said:


> Jemal said he'd be absent from his games for a bit as per this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=232506
> 
> I added that Displacement thing to my sheet.






DM_Matt said:


> Sooooo....






Victim said:


> We normally seem a bit slow on weekends, and then it seems like there's additional delays from the summer and the board rebuild.




Yeah, I know.  I'm just anxious to get going is all.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 29, 2008)

Sorry, had issues with my account.  I am back now, had to reset password after this whole enw rold 2 update....


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 1, 2008)

Hey, quick question.  In the Create Objects description, I have Tether as an option.  I also have a few other options, and was wondering if they were mandatory, or options available for each creation.

In other words, could I tether one Created Object on one round, and then create another object, that is NOT tethered on the other round?


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## Victim (Jul 1, 2008)

As a general rule, extras are mandatory, power feats are optional.  Note that the text on some rules effectively makes them optional - for example, Moveable CO.  Sure, you will theoretically have the ability to move all your objects, but without some sort of mind control, you never have to spend actions moving them if you don't want to.

What about the triggered attack?

How far is it to the ship?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 2, 2008)

Victim said:


> As a general rule, extras are mandatory, power feats are optional.  Note that the text on some rules effectively makes them optional - for example, Moveable CO.  Sure, you will theoretically have the ability to move all your objects, but without some sort of mind control, you never have to spend actions moving them if you don't want to.
> 
> What about the triggered attack?
> 
> How far is it to the ship?




I had thought that you meant you moved 5,000 in a round, which is the approximate distance.  If its in a move action, Star gets her attack.


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## Victim (Jul 2, 2008)

Star spent her standard action setting up a shot triggered to fire at her next attacker before she moved.


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## Victim (Jul 4, 2008)

> (Star's Trigger Attack ... Crit!) Pharoah bends overs, following his mighty punch, and rises just in time to see a several glowing orbs hit him straight on, sending him flying until he lands a couple hundred feet across the desert (1 bruise, stunned)




Hmm, can I change my action to shooting him then?  It's rare that you get the chance to attack an enemy while they're still stunned from your own attack.  

Plus the whole redirect thing doesn't work so well if he's been knocked a few hundred feet away.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 4, 2008)

Victim said:


> Hmm, can I change my action to shooting him then?  It's rare that you get the chance to attack an enemy while they're still stunned from your own attack.
> 
> Plus the whole redirect thing doesn't work so well if he's been knocked a few hundred feet away.




He was knocked closer to his group in the same direction as Star was moving , si the redirect will work, but she can change her action.  My policy remains that anyone can change their actions up until they are actually adjudicated.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 4, 2008)

So why is it that Raylis and Vanifae totally disappeared with the new boards?


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## Victim (Jul 4, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> He was knocked closer to his group in the same direction as Star was moving , si the redirect will work, but she can change her action.  My policy remains that anyone can change their actions up until they are actually adjudicated.




I thought Redirect required that the new target for the attack be adjacent.  However, I'm hardly going to complain if you rule otherwise.

Someone trying a direct link to a thread from the old boards will get an error, I think.  I had to update my links to the character thread.  

Vanifae's blog was updated yesterday, so it might be possible to contact him there.  I didn't see any ATT posts from Raylis within the past week or so either (but search could be screwy on me and their forums didn't seem to have the last post data under user info).


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## kirinke (Jul 6, 2008)

Problem. The old link to the character thread is gone, that's the only place I had Hope in, um... could someone give me an updated link?


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## Victim (Jul 6, 2008)

I don't have the link right now (not on my normal computer), but IIRC adding "/forum/" between the enworld.org and the showthread fixes the matter.


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## Victim (Jul 7, 2008)

Here is the link; http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=201682

Nightweaver seems wasted punching single guys or taking her strength against a vehicle's armor.  Could she teleport into a vehicle and beat up the crew, then hijack a gun turret or perform some sabotage with her disable device before bailing with another 'port?  Or get inside the enemy ship?  With her shadow powers, skills, and martial arts, Nightweaver seems more like a ninja infiltrator, so fighting in such a straightfoward manner seems a little off.


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## Victim (Jul 7, 2008)

Instead of blowing up the teleportation system, maybe we should try to capture the ship.  Using their own teleportation is a possible means to access the Lighthouse (with weapons and shields - and hostages on the shields - some kind of infiltration seems like the most feasible method).  

Of course, that's how Barrington and Control Freak invaded the Lighthouse in the first place, so they've most likely considered that sort of defense.  On the other hand, we have Datalink powers and good Computers to hopefully break any kind of security they have on the system.  Plus we are in a position to hopefully take out Control Freak.  His absence should weaken their active their defenses, and the right mind reading/mind control/emotion control/drugs/whatever could give us any access codes we might need - Control Freak seems like he's been important enough so far that he'd have clearances (plus, as a machine controlling hacker guy, he'd probably give himself any level of access he wanted).  

But we'd have to act quickly and quietly to even have a chance of pulling that off.  And success is also extremely dangerous - taking over the station itself is probably more than we can do.  But recovering some of the captured supers or sabotaging some systems and then fleeing might be a more feasible goal.


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## Elric (Jul 7, 2008)

How far is Nitro from Control Freak?  It's hard to get a sense of distance here.


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## Victim (Jul 7, 2008)

Elric said:


> How far is Nitro from Control Freak?  It's hard to get a sense of distance here.




I thought it was about a mile between the ship and the base, and Control Freak was deep inside it.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 8, 2008)

Victim said:


> I thought it was about a mile between the ship and the base, and Control Freak was deep inside it.




Yes.  He is at the bottom of the base, about 40 feet underground, about a mile from the ship.


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## Victim (Jul 8, 2008)

What do Murder Mouse and his animal themed companions look like?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 8, 2008)

Victim said:


> What do Murder Mouse and his animal themed companions look like?




The animal stuff clearly is just big, cartoony costumes.  He looks like Mickey Mouse with a really big gun and several more guns and grenades on his person.  The big pink bunny has a giant hammer and seems to be particularly good at jumping.  The bee is dressed in black and yellow stripes, has wings, feelers that seem to be sensors of some kind, pincers that seem to be technological though its unclear what they do, and wrist guns that shoot poison stingers.


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## Victim (Jul 8, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> The animal stuff clearly is just big, cartoony costumes.  He looks like Mickey Mouse with a really big gun and several more guns and grenades on his person.  The big pink bunny has a giant hammer and seems to be particularly good at jumping.  The bee is dressed in black and yellow stripes, has wings, feelers that seem to be sensors of some kind, pincers that seem to be technological though its unclear what they do, and wrist guns that shoot poison stingers.




Ah, the humiliation.  And hmm, Murder Mouse was involved in the human combustion attacks mentioned in the first post, wasn't he?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 8, 2008)

Victim said:


> Ah, the humiliation.  And hmm, Murder Mouse was involved in the human combustion attacks mentioned in the first post, wasn't he?




Yeah.  I decided from the beginning you'd meet basically everyone mentioned in that post.  Other than Jack the Raper. That was padding.  The group is a reference, btw.  After this fight I'll list the number of references for each of the newly-introduced characters and situations for people to guess.


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## Victim (Jul 8, 2008)

I was just thinking that "human combustion attack" is a little strange and specific.  I don't really think of think of it as refering to shooting a fireblast at people.  It sounded more like he has some device or power that causes other things (like people) to ignite.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 8, 2008)

Victim said:


> I was just thinking that "human combustion attack" is a little strange and specific.  I don't really think of think of it as refering to shooting a fireblast at people.  It sounded more like he has some device or power that causes other things (like people) to ignite.




That is what happened in that case, which implies more powers than just his weapons.


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## Victim (Jul 8, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> That is what happened in that case, which implies more powers than just his weapons.




Well, the big gun could be some funky gadget; maybe some kind of microwave beam that cooks the target from the inside...


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## Elric (Jul 8, 2008)

So in game terms how hard would the communications array (is that our name for the teleportation system on the enemy ship?) be to hit in melee as far as Nitro could tell at the moment?  Are we talking Defense 5 + size bonus/penalty here or does it seem capable of moving around (or have some kind of shielding) so it's harder to hit?

Also, is it actually an antennae?  Victim's recent post had Star suggesting as much, and it would make sense, but I don't remember it being described in specifics.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 8, 2008)

Elric said:


> So in game terms how hard would the communications array (is that our name for the teleportation system on the enemy ship?) be to hit in melee as far as Nitro could tell at the moment?  Are we talking Defense 5 + size bonus/penalty here or does it seem capable of moving around (or have some kind of shielding) so it's harder to hit?
> 
> Also, is it actually an antennae?  Victim's recent post had Star suggesting as much, and it would make sense, but I don't remember it being described in specifics.




I started using your term, but yes, it seems that the teleportation receiver is located at the top of the tower along with other communication and sensor arrays.  It has a separate force field than the rest of the ship, since it can be lowered there separately.

It is very easy to hit in melee though.


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## Victim (Jul 8, 2008)

Yes, Star is actually taking an action instead of just talking.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 9, 2008)

It seems that posting in general has slowed greatly.  Is there a problem I should be aware of?  (Other than two players disappearing from the boards in general, of course.)


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## kirinke (Jul 9, 2008)

Not that I'm aware of, I just try to post once until all the others have posted, or at least I try to post only one 'actiony' post until then.


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## Shayuri (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm unconscious. 

Oh hey, I did mean to ask:

Does being unconscious mean the snare Thess created will evaporate on her next turn? Also, can a hero point be spent to wake up?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 9, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> I'm unconscious.
> 
> Oh hey, I did mean to ask:
> 
> Does being unconscious mean the snare Thess created will evaporate on her next turn? Also, can a hero point be spent to wake up?




Snare is an instant effect, so it does not go away.  However, you can't wake up from this with an hp.


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## Victim (Jul 14, 2008)

It's Viridian that's been KO'd, not Nightweaver.  I think that Heal would allow her to recover from the unconsciousness, but not remove any Fatigue/Exhausted conditions.


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## Victim (Jul 14, 2008)

> (OOC: Under the circumstances, it might be better to let Star use her Selective Area Dazzle attack on all of the bad guys over there, then shoot one of the dazzled guys [assuming it seems like they don't have the senses to operate fine while dazzled] for an almost sure hit)






> Good point, if Star does that then Apollo will focus his attacks on Murder Mouse.
> __________________




I don't think we were going for redudant dazzles.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 14, 2008)

Victim said:


> I don't think we were going for redudant dazzles.




My apologies.  (rolls)  Apollo would have missed and MM would have made the save versus Star's dazzle, so since it was my mistake, if you don't mind I'll have you guys keep the more favorable current result and not change the action.


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## Elric (Jul 14, 2008)

Matt, was this correct from earlier:



> DM_Matt said:
> 
> 
> > Hope hits what's left of the enemy formation with a gigantic tornado, which further damages their vehicles, and hurts Pharoah and the Guardian (1 bruise to each)
> ...






> > Nitro tries to bash LL, but she is surprisingly resilient (hp, she rerolled).  He continues past her in the air, and she whirls and hits him, batting him into the sand (another bruise, hp spent on Ult Toughness)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And did Leopard really not take a bruise from my previous 19 damage hit after having 2 bruises (if the above is correct?).  You didn't mention Leopard rolling a natural 20 and I'd really hope that with 2 bruises if she could still make a DC 34 save it would only be on a natural 20   In general, I'm trying to figure out how high Leopard's Toughness is so I can decide whether I want to reroll the attack I just missed with.



> The gigantic leopard woman is less talkative, and responds simply with smashing Hope into the sand with both fists (last hp spent to reroll, staggered, stunned, bruised), roaring and then hitting her again. (hp spent to surge, granted to Hope who rerolls, still gets a second staggered and is KO'd)




Two things: one, if Hope had a hero point when she was first stunned, under the circumstances (several bruises, gigantic opponent ready to smash you while stunned + prone) she absolutely should have bought of the stun with a hero point so she could take her attack and get up.  

Also, Hope can't reroll twice in a round regardless.  So even if you don't let Hope spend an HP to be unstunned and change that part of the round, she'd be KOd with 1 HP remaining.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 14, 2008)

Elric said:


> Matt, was this correct from earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Leopard did in fact roll a 20, and Pharoah did in fact take an extra bruise, being in the area of the attack.  Hope only had enough HP to reroll or to shake the stun, and no such contingency about that use of an hp was available.  Regarding the second reroll, you are correct.  She is KO'd but has an HP.


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## Elric (Jul 14, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Leopard did in fact roll a 20, and Pharoah did in fact take an extra bruise, being in the area of the attack.  Hope only had enough HP to reroll or to shake the stun, and no such contingency about that use of an hp was available.  Regarding the second reroll, you are correct.  She is KO'd but has an HP.




Technically all damage is lethal once you're unconscious, but OK- had me fooled 

Just because kirinke didn't write ("and if I'm stunned, shake it off so I can attack") doesn't mean she wouldn't have done it if the action had paused so that she could post.  In particular, kirinke almost never _fails _to shake off a stunned condition when she has the chance to act by doing so.

It's your call, but I don't think it's really fair to have us getting KOd left and right for not writing in all of these contingencies- for obvious reasons this never happens to villains.  That said, things did turn out worse for Hope than they could have, and this thing could be sort of abusive in retrospect, but when you're at 6 Defense (12 flatfooted, -2 stunned, -4 prone) compared to 21 defense (recover from stun, then stand up- plus she'd get to attack) when in range of LL (and already having 3 bruises), I think the course of action is pretty clear.  

I'd like to reroll that last attack roll with a hero point.  I should have a handle on LL's Knockback modifier since it's clear from the attack that stunned Leopard earlier and knocked her over that a full-damage attack by me will cause Knockback.  With that in mind, I'd like to have Nitro pull the knockback such that she doesn't go more than 5 feet- based on the earlier hit (which I think was after a successful Acrobatic Bluff and I was thus using PA for 3), let's say this is 17 damage applied to Knockback instead of the full 19.

If that rerolled attack does well enough I might want to use Extra Effort to follow up on it, but I'd prefer to see the results first.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 14, 2008)

Elric said:


> Technically all damage is lethal once you're unconscious, but OK- had me fooled
> 
> Just because kirinke didn't write ("and if I'm stunned, shake it off so I can attack") doesn't mean she wouldn't have done it if the action had paused so that she could post.  In particular, kirinke almost never _fails _to shake off a stunned condition when she has the chance to act by doing so.
> 
> ...




I said in the initial post that she could spend the HP, and I'll let her do that if ahe wants, but it might not end up helping.


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## kirinke (Jul 15, 2008)

I do wish to use the hero point to shake the stun and attack. Plus,  Hope does have a Toughness of 11 so that would give her a DC save of 15+11 which equals 26 right?


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## Victim (Jul 15, 2008)

Vanifae, you might want to throw down some Feints, Tricks or Taunts with your move actions; Apollo has the skills employ Bluff effectively in combat.


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## Vanifae (Jul 15, 2008)

Yeah I will look at that can you feint and attack in the same round?


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## Elric (Jul 15, 2008)

kirinke said:


> I do wish to use the hero point to shake the stun and attack. Plus,  Hope does have a Toughness of 11 so that would give her a DC save of 15+11 which equals 26 right?





I don't know what you're asking.  Hope has Toughness 11 normally, but with (I think) 3 Bruises she takes a -3 on toughness saves at this point.  

The Save DC of an attack that deals damage is 15+the damage dealt.  So an attack that deals 11 damage forces a DC 26 Toughness save.



Vanifae said:


> Yeah I will look at that can you feint and attack in the same round?




An attack is a standard action; you can feint as a move action by taking a -5 penalty; if you do you can feint as a move action and then attack as a standard action. 

Also, Vanifae, looking at your character sheet your Strike guitar power is only built on 21 pp it seems, 10 Strike + 6 Dazzle + 4 PFs.  So you could add a third Attack Specialization: Guitar feat in there and hit your +11 Attack cap and the power would still come in at an allowable 22 pp (unless you built it like that on purpose because you envision him being less accurate with the Guitar than the Bow).  Something to think about after the fight if Matt lets you alter that part of the character.


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## kirinke (Jul 15, 2008)

Elric said:


> I don't know what you're asking.  Hope has Toughness 11 normally, but with (I think) 3 Bruises she takes a -3 on toughness saves at this point.
> 
> The Save DC of an attack that deals damage is 15+the damage dealt.  So an attack that deals 11 damage forces a DC 26 Toughness save.




That's what I meant, so with 3 bruises, it'd be DC 23


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## Victim (Jul 15, 2008)

Vanifae said:


> Yeah I will look at that can you feint and attack in the same round?




If you take a -5 penalty, you can use things like Feint or Taunt as a move action.  Star and Nitro have been doing it all the time.


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## Victim (Jul 15, 2008)

kirinke said:


> That's what I meant, so with 3 bruises, it'd be DC 23




You roll a save with a +8 bonus (11 Toughness, -3 from Bruises) against a DC of 15+Leopard's damage.  That DC is probably at least 26, since growing characters tend to trade attack for extra damage.


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## Elric (Jul 15, 2008)

kirinke said:


> That's what I meant, so with 3 bruises, it'd be DC 23




No, bruises make it harder to make a save.  So an attack that does 11 damage to force a DC 26 Toughness save but hits a character with 3 bruises is like forcing a save at DC 29 if the character had no bruises.

Also, bruises do nothing to change a character's ability to _deal _damage.


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## Vanifae (Jul 15, 2008)

Victim said:


> If you take a -5 penalty, you can use things like Feint or Taunt as a move action.  Star and Nitro have been doing it all the time.



Sounds rocking then.


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## Elric (Jul 15, 2008)

Jemal- Optic might be able to use Extra Effort for "Willpower" to get another save/opposed check against whatever Control Freak did to his suit.  Might want to ask Matt about that, because it would certainly help to have you back in the fight about now!

Victim- not sure that last use of Redirect is legal as the intended person you want to Redirect the attack to isn't within 5 feet of the attack on you.  Is Matt using a house rule on this score (Nitro has Redirect too )  Of course, Redirect is based on the Trick option, and "Trick to make them think I'm [right in front of where their ally actually is]" is probably legitimate at the moment.


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## Victim (Jul 15, 2008)

It was allowed before when Star redirected into Pharoah even after he was knocked away from her.  I asked about the ruling back then.

EDIT: Of course, this particular trick doesn't work so well if they aren't blind.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 15, 2008)

Victim said:


> It was allowed before when Star redirected into Pharoah even after he was knocked away from her.  I asked about the ruling back then.
> 
> EDIT: Of course, this particular trick doesn't work so well if they aren't blind.




I allowed it since Star knocked him back a ways in one dimension (lets arbitrarily call it the x axis), but was still in the same space or the adjacent space in the other (lets call it y).  Since the attack was with a directed energy weapon that fires in a straight line unaffected by gravity down the x axis, from the POV of the attacker aiming on the y axis, Star and Pharaoh were adjacent or better.  This is not a house rule, just a situational ruling.


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## Elric (Jul 15, 2008)

Vanifae, you aren't going to be able to move, attack with the guitar, and Taunt in the same round, since moving will take a move action.  I'm pretty sure you'd have to move to attack them with the guitar since you didn't end last round in melee range.  So I'd probably just Taunt and Blast from a distance (especially if some of them are still blind, better to avoid getting close).  

Also, as of your action Battle Bunny is still blinded for sure, which means that if he doesn't have Uncanny Dodge or some special senses he'd be almost a sure hit.


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## Victim (Jul 15, 2008)

So should I change my action then?


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## Vanifae (Jul 15, 2008)

Alright, I was just trying to buy Star some time since the Bee guy was trying to kill her.


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## Elric (Jul 15, 2008)

Vanifae said:


> Alright, I was just trying to buy Star some time since the Bee guy was trying to kill her.




By the way, I noticed that your post says "Reroll with HP if attack roll is below 10."  Though the book says that you have to spend HP before learning the outcome of a roll, I don't think we're playing it that way- I think you could just say "reroll if attack misses."  I think letting people know the outcome before rerolling is good policy generally (much less metagaming than if you don't know the outcome of the roll) and following the book's policy would make it very hard to do retroactive rerolls in general. 

Matt, correct me if I'm wrong here.


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## Vanifae (Jul 15, 2008)

I mean if the natural die roll is lower then 10 before I know it is a miss I will use an HP regardless if it would hit or not... but I might revise my action based on Elric's input.


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## Elric (Jul 15, 2008)

Vanifae said:


> I mean if the natural die roll is lower then 10 before I know it is a miss I will use an HP regardless if it would hit or not... but I might revise my action based on Elric's input.





I know what you meant.  What I was trying to say is that the way this game is being run, I don't think you have to risk using an HP to reroll an attack roll that would already hit.  You could say "reroll if the attack roll would miss" instead. 

Or you could say "reroll if the attack roll would miss, unless the attack roll is above X" 

(This would be so that if it turns out you're shooting at someone very good at dodging you don't use an HP when there's little chance to making the next shot- but I really doubt that's the case here, these guys don't have 25+ Defense or anything; no need to worry about a case like this).


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## DM_Matt (Jul 15, 2008)

Elric said:


> By the way, I noticed that your post says "Reroll with HP if attack roll is below 10."  Though the book says that you have to spend HP before learning the outcome of a roll, I don't think we're playing it that way- I think you could just say "reroll if attack misses."  I think letting people know the outcome before rerolling is good policy generally (much less metagaming than if you don't know the outcome of the roll) and following the book's policy would make it very hard to do retroactive rerolls in general.
> 
> Matt, correct me if I'm wrong here.




You are completely correct.


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## Elric (Jul 16, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Yes.  He [Control Freak] is at the bottom of the base, about 40 feet underground, about a mile from the ship.




Fangor, I don't think Wren flying back to Heal Hope is a good idea at the moment.  Wren has Flight 3 I think- that's only 500 feet as a move action and 2000 moving all-out.  It will take 3 rounds of movement before you get close enough to heal Hope on a fourth round.  By comparison, Apollo or Star can get back over in a single move action.  If you have all 3 HP remaining, you're going to be really handy in the fight against Control Freak, which is probably the more important objective at the moment.  

Now you could, say, use Extra Effort to power stunt a Teleport to get back to the Ship in a single round.  If you're set on getting back to Heal Hope, that's probably the way to do it (then you can Heal her next round).


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## Victim (Jul 16, 2008)

IIRC, Hope was within range of the enemy ship, so she'd be almost a mile away.  

Depending on how things go for this round, I was thinking that Star should zoom back and try to attack Leopard or Guardian, maybe using a Dazzle.  It seems like it should be effective against a huge person based on surface area, even if there's no extra bonus for it.   

Hope is beyond the heavy load of either Apollo or Star, so they won't be able to move her back without Extra Effort or working together.  Amusingly, it looks like one of them could rush over to Hope, and then use Push/Drag to move her about 1/2 a mile assuming conditions aren't too bad.  That should leave her close enough for Wren to get to in about a pair of move actions, so he shoot and move this round, and then move and heal her the next.  I'm not sure that dragging someone half a mile in less than 6 seconds would be particularly healthy though.   


I agree that Control Freak's group is more important at the moment.  We should do what we can outside - especially to avoid leaving KO'd PCs in an enemy controled area - but it's probably not worth spending several whole turns just trying to get into play there.  CF is closest to the objective, has the powers to get the information Barrington wants, and has been a major part of the operation up till now.


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## Vanifae (Jul 16, 2008)

I am open to suggestion on what would be a good course of action to aid the team.

i.e. what is a good thing for Apollo to do, I can see Hope is in trouble we need to get Control Freak, and whatever else is going down.


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## kirinke (Jul 17, 2008)

I dunno. Player wise, I'm saving yay, save Hope. 


But considering her character and where you are at the time (too far away to be really effective in saving her). She'd probably insist that you get Control Freak first. That is, if she was conscious enough to do so. Y'know, that dratted duty thing kicking in.


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## Elric (Jul 17, 2008)

Vanifae said:


> I am open to suggestion on what would be a good course of action to aid the team.
> 
> i.e. what is a good thing for Apollo to do, I can see Hope is in trouble we need to get Control Freak, and whatever else is going down.




Either you or Star could get back to Nitro/ the KOd Hope in a single move action.  At the moment fighting Control Freak is more important, but if Nitro gets KOd it would be really good to already have someone over by the Ship as Guardian just expressed her desire to take Hope's head back as a trophy. 

If you send one character back over to Nitro/Hope, it should be Star/Apollo.  Wren, being slower, should stick to fighting the enemies you're fighting right now.  If we win the fight over there, Nitro can grab Hope and jump over to the base in 3 rounds (he jumps around 200 mph when using both move actions for leaping )


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## Elric (Jul 17, 2008)

OK, Vanifae, all-out defense (by which I think you mean Total Defense) isn't the right play here.  Guardian can't Coup de Grace Hope in a single round from a range and is attacking Nitro at the moment anyway.  EDIT- in fact, I used Acrobatic Bluff to try to trick Guardian into attacking Nitro and Leopard will be going after Nitro for sure.  So there's nothing to use Total Defense to defend against.

How about, say, dazzling Leopard or shooting either Leopard or Guardian  Guardian might have some kind of immunity to Light but I doubt it; also, Guardian will be a very tough opponent for Nitro to attack since she's doing fly-by strafings.


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## Vanifae (Jul 17, 2008)

Gotcha, Dazzling it is.

This game is much more tactical then I am used to.


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## kirinke (Jul 17, 2008)

I doubt that Hope will be up and about any time soon. But on the off chance she does manage to regain consciousness, she will either:

Use an area burst (hail) on whatever super-baddy she can get her metaphysical hands on (assuming that the attack won't hit an ally)

Icy Blast on the nearest super-badguy. 

Air control to bring down the nearest flying enemy. 

Or
Sit and lookit the pretty stars if she can't make an attack. 

Whichever seems the most feasible.


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## Elric (Jul 17, 2008)

Fangor, can I suggest having Wren fly close enough to Control Freak so that he won't get any bonuses from being prone (as prone bonuses depend on angle) and then using that Autofire Blast on him.  Though the other characters might be more dangerous in a direct fight, they were protecting Control Freak for a reason; he's the most important one to their plan and he's currently staggered and stunned, so vulnerable and close to KOd.

Alternately, you could fly up and hit Control Freak with your Strike power; then you'd get the +4 bonus from him being prone and with him stunned as well you'd essentially guarantee a hit, but you wouldn't get the bonus autofire damage.  Then if you want you can use Extra Effort to get a second attack.


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## Victim (Jul 17, 2008)

Acrobatics check to reduce knockback damage?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 17, 2008)

Victim said:


> Acrobatics check to reduce knockback damage?




Sure.  Now stunned, but not staggered.


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## Shayuri (Jul 17, 2008)

Ugh...sorry for being slow. Enworld was a major pain yesterday.

I'll post today, hell or high water.


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## Jemal (Jul 17, 2008)

HMM, a couple questions - 
First: why do I have to spend an HP to control my visor (Which is seperate from my suit)?  Did he manage to control both of them?

Second: it seem's like Control Freak's got twice my actions, am I missing something?
[sblock=what I've seen]
He runs down stairs(1-Control), gets stunned, breaks out(2-Control), I chase and kick him(1-Optic) he Immobilizes my suit (3-Control), then shoots me (4-Control), and I shoot him (2-Optic).
[/sblock]


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## Elric (Jul 17, 2008)

Jemal said:


> Second: it seem's like Control Freak's got twice my actions, am I missing something?
> [sblock=what I've seen]
> He runs down stairs(1-Control), gets stunned, breaks out(2-Control), I chase and kick him(1-Optic) he Immobilizes my suit (3-Control), then shoots me (4-Control), and I shoot him (2-Optic).
> [/sblock]




I think when you posted a "retroactive punch CF while he's chain up" because you hadn't posted before Matt resolved. you lost a round of actions there because you never got an action in the round after you punched CF (since you hadn't posted another action for that by the time Matt resolved that round). 

Then this round it looks like Matt just mixed up your places in the initiative order (this actually worked out pretty well, though, as CF gave you an HP by rerolling his attack and still didn't hit).


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## Victim (Jul 17, 2008)

It's because of Ready.  

Round N:  Control Freak acts.  Optic spends his action to ready a counter.
Round N+1: Control Freak starts to act.  Optic attempts to counter.  Optic doesn't go again later in the round.

Readying can potentially cost 2 actions, not just one.


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## Elric (Jul 17, 2008)

Victim said:


> It's because of Ready.
> 
> Round N:  Control Freak acts.  Optic spends his action to ready a counter.
> Round N+1: Control Freak starts to act.  Optic attempts to counter.  Optic doesn't go again later in the round.
> ...




I'm not sure if this is how the rules work, but more to the point, this isn't how the encounter played out. 

Round N+1 is when CF was Snared (I think, but in any case one round after he was snared the following occurred).

If we move to round N+2 now, Optic should have first initiative.
N+2: Optic punches CF (clearly this was done while CF was in the Snare, as Matt never corrected Jemal's post to say otherwise).  Then CF phases through the Snare.
N+3: CF immobilizes Optic's suit.  

So CF got two actions there between Optic's turns and it didn't have anything to do with Ready.


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## Victim (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm seriously considering not spending the HP to cancel fatigue at the beginning of Star's turn (when the EE fatigue occurs).  Stunned, exhausted and with so many bruises (I think she's up to 6 now), she's going to get hit and then fail big.  So even if she spends the HP, she'll still probably be KO'd before she can actually take an action.  

If she passes out now from fatigue, then she'll have a HP and fewer injuries if she can get healed later.


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## Elric (Jul 17, 2008)

Victim said:


> I'm seriously considering not spending the HP to cancel fatigue at the beginning of Star's turn (when the EE fatigue occurs).  Stunned, exhausted and with so many bruises (I think she's up to 6 now), she's going to get hit and then fail big.  So even if she spends the HP, she'll still probably be KO'd before she can actually take an action.
> 
> If she passes out now from fatigue, then she'll have a HP and fewer injuries if she can get healed later.




Sounds reasonable.

Shayuri, my guess is that Viridian is exhausted (since she got KOd by a fatigue effect before).  You should still have like 2 HP left- buying off the exhausted result will get you down to fatigued, but all that you really get out of it is defense penalty going from -3 to -1.  So it's an option to consider, especially if Battle Bunny/Killer Bee are both still up (since they have linked fatigue effects on their attacks).

I might go after Battle Bunny in revenge for getting KOd by him earlier.  Maybe Evil Eye him ("Battle Bunny, if you weren't already a bunny I'd turn you into one!" )

Lastly, Matt keeps getting Killer Bee's name wrong and calling him Battle Bee.  Battle Bunny, Killer Bee.  What's so hard?


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## Victim (Jul 17, 2008)

Elric said:


> Lastly, Matt keeps getting Killer Bee's name wrong and calling him Battle Bee.  Battle Bunny, Killer Bee.  What's so hard?




I keep calling him Battle Bee too.  It's alliterative.


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## Shayuri (Jul 18, 2008)

Was it a fatigue effect that knocked me out? Hee, I lost track.

The problem with Evil Eye is that it allows two saves...which I didn't think of when I bought it. You get a Reflex to avoid the eye contact...then a Will (damage) save to avoid the damage.

As such, it's a pretty weak attack against just about anything except massive brutish bricks. Though it's good against those.

I could TK someone too...or TK someone INTO someone...which might be the most efficient action.

I'll try to post...though most of the time it seems like I can't get through to Enworld. Is anyone else having that problem? Not just slow, the connection keeps timing out.


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## Elric (Jul 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> I could TK someone too...or TK someone INTO someone...which might be the most efficient action.




I like the first option.  Grappling someone and pinning them will set them up really well, or just grappling them and damaging them could work (particularly if that character hasn't displayed any ranged attacks- I think only Battle Bunny qualifies here).  Throwing someone into someone else will take a ranged attack roll to hit the second target, and that's not Viridian's forte.

Evil Eye isn't as bad as you think- if the target has +8 Reflex and +8 Will and +11 Toughness and +11 Defense, it's going to look quite a bit better than a normal +11 attack, 11 damage Blast.  But you're right that it excels at taking down (regenerating) bricks (Numero Uno, the werewolf from the first fight; or Nitro )

The boards seem to be slow for me at times, but I'm getting through- but since I check the boards after other people post, that might be why.


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## kirinke (Jul 18, 2008)

It's fairly slow for me at times too and I have DSL. Dunno. I think the mods are aware of it though.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 18, 2008)

Ok, posted... had to reroll a terrible shot, but it came out with a 20!!!  WOOHOO< Freak Boy is out, (crosses fingers in hopes of deterring a game master fiat...)


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## Elric (Jul 18, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Ok, posted... had to reroll a terrible shot, but it came out with a 20!!!  WOOHOO< Freak Boy is out, (crosses fingers in hopes of deterring a game master fiat...)




For what it's worth, prone gives you -4 Defense against melee attacks and +4 Defense against ranged attacks.  That's why I suggested flying up to Control Freak- if you're more or less on top of him, then he shouldn't get the +4 Prone Defense bonus.

But that natural 20 makes the point fairly moot- if his stunned defense was 17 (and it's almost certainly quite a bit lower) he'd still take the full autofire from that attack.  21 damage.  Wow.  That's got to be the most damage any PC has dealt in a single attack this whole campaign.  Don't think he's going to be up after that- but if he rolls a 20 or something and stays up, you can always use Extra Effort to Surge and take another shot.  In fact, you could do this anyway even if CF gets KOd- I'd say attack either Battle Bunny (stunned) or Murder Mouse (blinded, but still dangerous).

Edit- forgot this the first time.  Control Freak already rerolled an attack roll earlier in the round, so he won't be able to use GM Fiat on this toughness save.  As long as he doesn't get a natural 20 we should be pretty set...


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## DM_Matt (Jul 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> Was it a fatigue effect that knocked me out? Hee, I lost track.
> 
> The problem with Evil Eye is that it allows two saves...which I didn't think of when I bought it. You get a Reflex to avoid the eye contact...then a Will (damage) save to avoid the damage.
> 
> ...





It is intermittent for me too, but it goes up and down often enough that its usually fine if I come back like 15 minutes later.


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## Victim (Jul 18, 2008)

Wasn't Murder Mouse also stunned by Star's attacks?  Hmm, but he acted after that to throw a grenade.  Should Star be getting a much needed HP?


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## Elric (Jul 18, 2008)

Victim said:


> Wasn't Murder Mouse also stunned by Star's attacks?  Hmm, but he acted after that to throw a grenade.  Should Star be getting a much needed HP?




Looks like it to me!  If you do get that second HP, I'd consider buying off the fatigue that would KO Star and maybe the stun as well [either conditional on being shot at by a targeted attack or on your next initiative count rolling around].  Another one of her Area Dazzles would probably prove useful (Exhausted makes her attack bonus pretty bad, but no attack roll needed for the Area Attack).


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## Victim (Jul 18, 2008)

Elric said:


> Looks like it to me!  If you do get that second HP, I'd consider buying off the fatigue that would KO Star and maybe the stun as well [either conditional on being shot at by a targeted attack or on your next initiative count rolling around].  Another one of her Area Dazzles would probably prove useful (Exhausted makes her attack bonus pretty bad, but no attack roll needed for the Area Attack).




Yeah, with the second HP I would want to stay conscious.  

Since we've dished out a number of bruises to Murder Mouse but haven't yet finished him off, I think damage is the better route.  The whole 3 saves on her dazzle really limit its effectiveness (Ref 1/2, Ref, and then Fort to recover) more than I thought.  Plus the Bee won't be bothered by the dazzle with his extra sense, so only the Bunny and Mouse would be possible targets if Control Freak is taken out by Wren's attack.  

Even exhausted, her attack bonus isn't bad if I don't use Defensive Attack, but autofire damage drops; she can use Moveby to hit and run them instead of sticking around to get shot since Wren is there to hold the line.  And Homing helps with the accuracy too.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 18, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah, with the second HP I would want to stay conscious.
> 
> Since we've dished out a number of bruises to Murder Mouse but haven't yet finished him off, I think damage is the better route.  The whole 3 saves on her dazzle really limit its effectiveness (Ref 1/2, Ref, and then Fort to recover) more than I thought.  Plus the Bee won't be bothered by the dazzle with his extra sense, so only the Bunny and Mouse would be possible targets if Control Freak is taken out by Wren's attack.
> 
> Even exhausted, her attack bonus isn't bad if I don't use Defensive Attack, but autofire damage drops; she can use Moveby to hit and run them instead of sticking around to get shot since Wren is there to hold the line.  And Homing helps with the accuracy too.




My mistake on MM.  He does not attack.


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## Elric (Jul 18, 2008)

Shayuri- when you're grappling with a Perception-range Telekinesis, your bonus is 2x rank of the power, or +16 in your case.  See http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=16081

Also, you don't need two separate grapples to pin someone.  You'll roll a grapple check to start the grapple and if it succeeds you can apply an immediate grapple result (one of which is pin).


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## Shayuri (Jul 18, 2008)

Oh! Sorry, didn't have time this morning to look things up before posting. 

No surge then.

Thanks for the clarifications, Eric.


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## Victim (Jul 18, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> My mistake on MM.  He does not attack.




So I guess that bruise/injury doesn't impact any of Star's saves?  Curses.


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## Vanifae (Jul 18, 2008)

I will be out of town this weekend.


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## Elric (Jul 18, 2008)

Vanifae said:


> I will be out of town this weekend.




Do you want to designate someone to post for you in case Matt wants to resolve a round before you get back?  Otherwise he'll probably just NPC the character.  Or you could set him on "Blast nearest enemy every round mode"


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## DM_Matt (Jul 18, 2008)

Victim said:


> So I guess that bruise/injury doesn't impact any of Star's saves?  Curses.




No, none of them were on the border like that.


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## Victim (Jul 18, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> No, none of them were on the border like that.




Yeah, I didn't think so.


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## Vanifae (Jul 18, 2008)

Victim can control Apollo till I get back.


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## Victim (Jul 18, 2008)

Vanifae said:


> Victim can control Apollo till I get back.




Star does so well that people feel inclined to trust me with their own characters.


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## Elric (Jul 19, 2008)

Nice.  Tide seems to be turning in our favor in both sides of the battle.  

Fangor, I'm pretty sure from earlier in the fight that Viridian is before Wren in the battle order.  If you want to use Extra Effort to surge and take an attack on Killer Bee, he'll be extremely unlikely to avoid it (-4 defense and no dodge bonus from being pinned by Viridian) and will probably take the full Autofire damage bonus.  Might get two KOs in one round.  Actually, Murder Mouse would be a good choice as well, since he's taken more bruises than Killer Bee and is stunned at the moment- I think he's prone, though, so depending on how close you are you may or may not get the -4 penalty to hit him.

Plus, if you roll another 20 this will go down in legend 

Edit- Shayuri, you didn't specify this but since you have a move action left over you should probably use it to get up.  Being prone gives melee attacks +4 to hit you (-4 for ranged attacks, but that's only Murder Mouse) and Battle Bunny is probably itching to hit you over the head again and likely KO you from the linked fatigue effect.  

Also, I noticed you've never spent any of the 5 pp you've gained by now.  One easy thing would be to take +1 Defense bonus for 2 pp, since you're currently one point of Def/Tough under cap at +6 Defense/+15 Toughness.


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## kirinke (Jul 19, 2008)

Question, in order to recover from Unconsciousness, what is the min score you need to do so? Because according to the rules, every minute, an unconscious person can make a roll to determine whether he/she wakes up.


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## Elric (Jul 19, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Question, in order to recover from Unconsciousness, what is the min score you need to do so? Because according to the rules, every minute, an unconscious person can make a roll to determine whether he/she wakes up.




DC 10 Constitution check.


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## Victim (Jul 19, 2008)

It's the usual DC 10 Recovery check (Con + regen bonus).  Hope has 16 Con, so she'd need to roll a 7.  But isn't it like 8 or 9 rounds before she can recover?  I don't really see the fight lasting that long.  And if we win, Wren will probably get with the healing quickly.  And if we lose, Guardian has the perfect chance to follow up on her threat.

I just noticed that Hope is only 25.  I had her pegged as late twenties, early 30s.  She's actually younger than Star.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 19, 2008)

Am I able to Extra Effort still and try to KO the Bee as well?  Not sure on that... but now's the time to ask!  If so, I would like to do so!  Rolling if possible:  Extra Effort Blast (1d20 11=30)

You GOTTA be kidding me!  That's ALMOST another crit, but either way, that's a 30 to hit!  Might as well take care of the snare that was provided!


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## Elric (Jul 19, 2008)

Victim said:


> It's the usual DC 10 Recovery check (Con + regen bonus).  Hope has 16 Con, so she'd need to roll a 7.  But isn't it like 8 or 9 rounds before she can recover?  I don't really see the fight lasting that long.  And if we win, Wren will probably get with the healing quickly.  And if we lose, Guardian has the perfect chance to follow up on her threat.
> 
> I just noticed that Hope is only 25.  I had her pegged as late twenties, early 30s.  She's actually younger than Star.




How old is Star?  I don't see it on your character sheet.  I would have called Star to be about 23.  And I'm surprised Hope is only 25- I would have called her at about 30-32.  I never listed Nitro's age- he's supposed to be about 27.



Fangor the Fierce said:


> Am I able to Extra Effort still and try to KO the Bee as well?  Not sure on that... but now's the time to ask!  If so, I would like to do so!  Rolling if possible:  Extra Effort Blast (1d20 11=30)
> 
> You GOTTA be kidding me!  That's ALMOST another crit, but either way, that's a 30 to hit!  Might as well take care of the snare that was provided!




Sure, you should be able to do this.  I mentioned that Viridian is before Wren in the order, so since the last action Matt resolved belongs to you, it's even your turn still.  Extra Effort can be used once a round as a free action and it's perfectly legal to take a move action, attack as a standard action and then decide if you want to Surge.  Then you just have to spend a hero point when your turn rolls around next round or you suffer fatigue. Nice shot- you might want to post this in the IC thread along with a description.  Something like: 

"Next."  Wren sees that Killer Bee has been immobilized by Viridian's powers.  "I guess you are next."  BAM!


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## kirinke (Jul 19, 2008)

You are right, It does seem odd, I'll change her age if that's okay, to about 28 or so. Make's a bit more sense that way.
Okay, so I rolled.... 
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/1668217/
A 9.

She woke up, but is playing 'dead' right now, hording her strength until she can act as it were. Drawing attention to herself would be bad right now.


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## Elric (Jul 19, 2008)

kirinke said:


> You are right, It does seem odd, I'll change her age if that's okay, to about 28 or so. Make's a bit more sense that way.
> Okay, so I rolled....
> http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/1668217/
> A 9.
> ...




You don't get to roll until a minute has passed since you were KOd.  It hasn't been anywhere near a minute yet- that's 10 rounds and it's been 1.  9 more to go.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 19, 2008)

kirinke said:


> You are right, It does seem odd, I'll change her age if that's okay, to about 28 or so. Make's a bit more sense that way.
> Okay, so I rolled....
> http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/1668217/
> A 9.
> ...






Elric said:


> How old is Star?  I don't see it on your character sheet.  I would have called Star to be about 23.  And I'm surprised Hope is only 25- I would have called her at about 30-32.  I never listed Nitro's age- he's supposed to be about 27.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was also confused about Star's age.  Her being in college and being close to her mother like that implied that she was younger, though I figured she was a little on the old end for someone in college...but I didn't really think she was in her late 20s as seems to be the case.  25 is slightly young for Hope to be reasonably-accomplished as an FBI agent, but not necessary in TV/movie/comic book years where everyone is a bit too young for their job and rank.


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## kirinke (Jul 19, 2008)

Well, I switched it to 29. If that's okay.


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## kirinke (Jul 19, 2008)

Elric said:


> You don't get to roll until a minute has passed since you were KOd.  It hasn't been anywhere near a minute yet- that's 10 rounds and it's been 1.  9 more to go.




Okay. Darn rounds ^_^ Anyway, um... if Wren doesn't make it in nine rounds, she'll wake up then.


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## Elric (Jul 19, 2008)

Is Guardian using energy damage or physical damage for Bladestorm?  If it's physical damage, Nitro should only be bruised, not injured.

Also, how far did we get blasted across the desert?  If Nitro can put more distance between himself and _Apollo_ by decreasing Knockback with Acrobatics, I'd like to do that

Edit- Victim, to answer your question about Demoralize, Shaken is correct in the combat chapter and incorrect in the Demoralize description, where it's been errata'd to also give a penalty to saves.


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## Victim (Jul 19, 2008)

Yeah, I figured it had been addressed someplace - I sort of remembered you asking a question about it actually - but it was getting late.

BTW, is there any reason you did Distract and then demoralize?  If you did the demoralize first, wouldn't that have a chance of making the Distract easier?

Dang, I thought Apollo would be going ahead of Guardian and Nitro.

Star is 26 - I think I've referenced it indirectlly before, if I haven't explicitly stated it - but is supposed to be youthful seeming.  I figured that her medical issues would leave her significantly behind a conventional time table.  Her life isn't exactly taking off.


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## Elric (Jul 19, 2008)

Victim said:


> BTW, is there any reason you did Distract and then demoralize?  If you did the demoralize first, wouldn't that have a chance of making the Distract easier?




D'oh!  I was initially planning to Distract and then use Startle as a move action but then I decided that wasn't as appropriate and switched it to Demoralize.  So I never even thought of that.  Matt, any chance that if my Distract lost by 2 or less than we can ret-con this to me having done them in the correct order? 



> Dang, I thought Apollo would be going ahead of Guardian and Nitro.




He was initially before Guardian and Nitro, but got delayed last round when Warmind had to open the blast doors.  I think he's still before Nitro, though.



> Star is 26 - I think I've referenced it indirectly before, if I haven't explicitly stated it - but is supposed to be youthful seeming.  I figured that her medical issues would leave her significantly behind a conventional time table.  Her life isn't exactly taking off.




Ah, yes.  I hadn't pieced it together before.  From two separate posts:



			
				Victim said:
			
		

> Megan squirms, "Well."   Do I really want to talk about this?  Well, she'll probably find out anyway eventually, and I'd rather be one.  Plus I like her.  "I got my powers when I was eight; I can barely remember not having them.  Trying to be normal and going to school isn't really me either.  It's hard to remember not to move so fast that I blur or that I need to at least look like I'm supporting my weight on something all the time I'm not at home."




Then later:



			
				Victim said:
			
		

> "Yeah, well, everyone else would probably be better off if I wasn't able to make it on the next mission."  People always need to take care of me.  That's pathetic for having powers for 18 years.  She can heal me all she wants, but that's not going to fix me.


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## Victim (Jul 20, 2008)

If one of us spends to cancel stun, then I think both of us should - otherwise she'll just try to nail the stunned person.


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## Elric (Jul 20, 2008)

Victim said:


> If one of us spends to cancel stun, then I think both of us should - otherwise she'll just try to nail the stunned person.




Two points:
1) Guardian can't take advantage of her own stun since it wears off next round on her initiative count
2) Nitro is out of HP.  He had 1 that just got spent to reroll his save, which got him "only" that Stunned + Injured/Bruised result (Matt, can you confirm that this was indeed energy damage?).  Plus he's fatigued.

Oh, Matt also confirmed to me that I lost the Distract opposed roll by more than 2.  So even if I had done them in the correct order it wouldn't have changed the outcome.


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## Victim (Jul 20, 2008)

Elric said:


> Two points:
> 1) Guardian can't take advantage of her own stun since it wears off next round on her initiative count
> 2) Nitro is out of HP.




Yeah, I should have known that...  

Probably not going to become unstunned then.


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## Elric (Jul 20, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah, I should have known that...
> 
> Probably not going to become unstunned then.




Well, at the moment both Apollo and Nitro have the same Knockback resistance, so if we were both within the target area of this attack last time we'll probably both be within the target area on her next action if no one shakes off stunned.  So for Apollo to shake off the stun, move away from Nitro and attack Guardian might save one of us from being in the line of fire next round.  

Edit- that's of course if Apollo has any HP left because I have no idea if he does (he also rerolled that last attack).  Given that Apollo has Luck 2, it wouldn't surprise me if he still has 1 HP at this point- but he might not.  Looking back over previous rounds, I think Apollo's spent all 3 of his initial HP at this point and hasn't received any more.  So it looks like we're going to both get scorched again.


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## Victim (Jul 20, 2008)

Elric said:


> Well, at the moment both Apollo and Nitro have the same Knockback resistance, so if we were both within the target area of this attack last time we'll probably both be within the target area on her next action if no one shakes off stunned.  So for Apollo to shake off the stun, move away from Nitro and attack Guardian might save one of us from being in the line of fire next round.




Really?  It seems like the knockback would likely be in different directions, so they'd be further apart.

EDIT: I'm not sure about his HP or injuries either.


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## Shayuri (Jul 20, 2008)

Question! 

Does maintaining the TK pin require action on Thessaly's part, or is it "sustained" like the TK itself?


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## Elric (Jul 20, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> Question!
> 
> Does maintaining the TK pin require action on Thessaly's part, or is it "sustained" like the TK itself?




I'm pretty sure that the description of Pin says that it only lasts a round.  Presumably Telekinesis to stay in the grapple is Sustained without requiring an action, though.  So you'd probably have to spend a standard action to keep him pinned but you could keep him grappled without an action (except that if you switch the array off Telekinesis, he'd be released).  

But I think you could grab a second person and pin them as a standard action while leaving Killer Bee grappled (see http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=27082).


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## Victim (Jul 20, 2008)

I think it'd be funny to throw a grappled person into a hard surface (or enemy) as a move action, then you catch them on the bounce with another grab attempt.


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## Elric (Jul 21, 2008)

Ouch.  This last round sure hurt.  Killer Bee has some incredible offense there- guess that's how he got his name.

Fangor- Wren is probably close enough to Interpose on Viridian, but given that he's in much better shape than her (even before that last round of attacks) and we know she'll survive... using your typical Power stunt an area teleport to get everyone out of there would probably be the best move.

On the surface, with Wren back in the area and fairly healthy Guardian should go down quickly.  We won't capture Control Freak, but Warmind (the telepath controlling the base) should be able to self-destruct everything important that's left.  Can't win them all.

You might want to Radio Jacobson and have him get the plane over here.  We might want to make a very quick getaway.


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## Victim (Jul 21, 2008)

Yeah, that was pretty dire.  I think Murder Mouse may have readied too, so trying something might provoke him.

Since we're not distracting Control Freak with a fight, he might be able to override any further self destructs.

There could be quite a party in Warmind's construct.


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## Elric (Jul 21, 2008)

Victim said:


> Since we're not distracting Control Freak with a fight, he might be able to override any further self destructs.




At least CF's staggered.  We did the best we could.


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## Victim (Jul 21, 2008)

And things go from bad to worse.


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## Shayuri (Jul 21, 2008)

I dont' expect it to mean much, but I'm upset.

I'd just like to go on record and say that.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 21, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> I dont' expect it to mean much, but I'm upset.
> 
> I'd just like to go on record and say that.




Well, I am sorry you're upset.  Really I am.  I stand by that ruling though.  I admit I wasn't 100% sure on it, so before doing it I asked Elric off the boards if he thought it was a legit use of counter, and he agreed with me.  I just don't know what else to say other than the fact that I think its within descriptors for his hammer to counter.


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## Shayuri (Jul 21, 2008)

My objection is that it seems to extend the use of the "force" descriptor to an unreasonable (IMO, of course) extent. Technically speaking, ANY transfer of energy involves "exerting force." Fire exerts force on molecules. Electricity is just electrons exerting force. If you define force that broadly, you have a Nullify that can act on basically every physical power in the book.

Of course, since the power level of the villains seems kind of arbitrarily high, maybe he paid the points per level to have a Nullify that can do that.


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## Elric (Jul 21, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> My objection is that it seems to extend the use of the "force" descriptor to an unreasonable (IMO, of course) extent. Technically speaking, ANY transfer of energy involves "exerting force." Fire exerts force on molecules. Electricity is just electrons exerting force. If you define force that broadly, you have a Nullify that can act on basically every physical power in the book.
> 
> Of course, since the power level of the villains seems kind of arbitrarily high, maybe he paid the points per level to have a Nullify that can do that.




Sorry, I sort of feel responsible for this because if I had said it was unreasonable Matt wouldn't have done it.  I wasn't sure but I did say it was a reasonable use of Countering and my reasoning was partly based on Ultimate Power (here's the entry for Telekinesis).



> Telekinesis affects motion, so it can potentially counter any other Move Object effect, preventing someone else from moving something. Likewise, other Move Object effects may be able to counter
> Telekinesis; for example, Magnetic Control could counter an attempt to move a metallic object with Telekinesis.
> 
> As a general rule, Telekinesis should not be able to counter things like general attack or movement effects without taking Nullify as an Alternate Power or additional power. Likewise, using Telekinesis to actively deflect attacks should be considered an additional Deflect Alternate Power rather than an automatic capability of the power.




This may be pushing (no pun intended) the Nullify (Force stuff) too far.  But even if that were the case, Battle Bunny could presumably have used Extra Effort to power stunt to acquire a suitable enough power (a 1 pp/rank Nullify for to counter the Telekinesis, which would have led to the exact result that occurred, except that he wouldn't have been able to surge and KO Optic, having already used Extra Effort (this would be a fairly significant difference in the path of the fight, though).  

Wren may yet interpose on the Killer Bee attack, as I think he's in range to do so (and he's much more resistant to this attack at this point than Viridian).  If it gets ret-conned that Bunny had to use Extra Effort to acquire a suitable enough power to counter the telekinesis (this I think is definitely reasonable given the descriptors involve) and Wren interposes on this attack for Viridian we'd still be in the fight at the base, admittedly probably not for long owing to being outnumbered and seriously outgunned (potential solution: Viridian Mind Controls Killer Bee and uses his disgusting offense against them).


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## Shayuri (Jul 21, 2008)

Reading that paragraph you quoted, I don't see how it applies. It specifically refers to the use of Telekinesis (a Move Object power) to counter other Move Object effects, like Magnetic Control, or Gravity Control or what have you. Basically the gist is: "If you can move it telekinetically, you can try to counter someone else moving it some other way." And vice versa.

Nullify (Force) isn't a Move Object effect. It doesn't seem relevant, therefore, to include a rules argument that is purely based on opposing Move Object effects.

I also object to the idea that anyone with a Nullify power can just "power stunt" to get around the limits of their ability to deal with specific situations. Doesn't that kind of kick the whole point of having limitations in the nutsack?

"I am Firestar, I affect heat and fire...but...uh, you use lightning, so I'll power stunt with Extra Effort. Yay!"

I'll be honest. I don't expect any of this to change anything's that's happened in-game. I just want the basis of my objection, on this particular event, to be clear.


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## Elric (Jul 21, 2008)

> I also object to the idea that anyone with a Nullify power can just "power stunt" to get around the limits of their ability to deal with specific situations. Doesn't that kind of kick the whole point of having limitations in the nutsack?
> 
> "I am Firestar, I affect heat and fire...but...uh, you use lightning, so I'll power stunt with Extra Effort. Yay!"




There's definitely a tension between the idea that a Power Stunt should be something your character could legitimately have as an AP and the idea that a Power Stunt represents your character being able to do something kind of off the wall that wouldn't be suitable for you to have as a general ability.  For example, Wolverine's Adamantium Claws probably do not merit the Affects Insubstantial power feat but if Wolverine power stunted Affects Insubstantial for an attack because his claws were "dense enough" to affect a particular insubstantial opponent, I don't think that would feel so out there.  If Wolverine tried to power stunt Autofire Affects Insubstantial claws to hit a bunch of insubstantial opponents, though, that would feel pretty out there.  I think it's a matter of degree.

Force powers and Telekinesis are definitely fairly close thematically.  Think about Jean Grey having Telekinesis (usually Range: Perception) and Force Constructs and [Force] Blast and Force Field, likely in the same array.


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## Shayuri (Jul 21, 2008)

I really disagree. I think that really removes so many things from the game. Let me explain my reasoning:

First, if power stunting is so flexible, then hero points become a "catchall" and the Luck feat becomes the most valuable feat in the game; to the point that it occludes almost any other use of a power feat. Example:

_I am EctoSpasm, the spectral defender! My telekinesis takes the form of wispy strands of ectoplasm that can grab and punch. Because they are solid and gaseous, and ghostly, I take the Affects Insubstantial power feat. 90% of the time, this feat does nothing for me, because insubstantial foes are rare. But then we face Nocturne, the Perfidous Poltergeist! Finally it is my time to shine!

...but the Wolverine decides his claws "are dense enough" and...why did I take that feat? I could have had a Hero Point that will do the same thing, effectively, and will still be useful when I'm not facing ghosts._

Secondly, it makes powers that are limited by descriptor FAR more valuable than they would ordinarily be. The whole point of powers that are limited by descriptor is that..._they are limited by descriptor._ Why should I pay for a Nullify that affects a broad range of effects, when I can buy a more limited Nullify, and just power stunt it as needed?

Edit - That's great for Jean Grey. Who's not Jean Grey? Me.   And "fairly close thematically" is one of those overly broad classifications I was talking about. Light is "fairly close thematically" to x-rays and gamma rays...does that mean Dazzler can irradiate the city?


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## Elric (Jul 21, 2008)

Luck is already probably the best feat in the game, thanks to Improved Roll, not buying off fatigue from Power Stunt.  

Think about how many times characters have Power stunted in this campaign: Wren (for Area Teleport, which he's done twice), Star (for Area Strike, done once), Hope (for a fire spell to kill Oni, done once).

I think that's it.  Instant-Duration Power Stunts are just not an overwhelmingly useful thing to do most of the time.  Instant Duration Power Stunts are one-use: you pay a price for the flexibility.  The example with Hope is her Power Stunting an ability it would never make sense for her to have as an AP.  Wren's is a "rescue entire party" effect and Star's was done to attack over a dozen enemies.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 21, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> I really disagree. I think that really removes so many things from the game. Let me explain my reasoning:
> 
> First, if power stunting is so flexible, then hero points become a "catchall" and the Luck feat becomes the most valuable feat in the game; to the point that it occludes almost any other use of a power feat. Example:
> 
> ...




The way I imagine TK working is that it creates magical force that pushes/lifts/etc. stuff, so he attacked the curtain of magical force you were grabbing the bee with.  To me its pushing it, but within the boundaries of this particularly powerful weapon.

If I were to make him stunt it, I'm not sure that would change much.  If Wren stunts that TP to get to the surface, it wont matter.

As far as:  "Why should I pay for a Nullify that affects a broad range of effects, when I can buy a more limited Nullify, and just power stunt it as needed?" Its a matter of how often you want to Nullify and how broad what you want to nullify is.  If you can stunt a nullify, you can AP a nullify, so its a matter of whether you would use it enough to buy it or else you should stunt it rarely.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 21, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> I also object to the idea that anyone with a Nullify power can just "power stunt" to get around the limits of their ability to deal with specific situations. Doesn't that kind of kick the whole point of having limitations in the nutsack?




Well, I think that its within descriptors to nullify based on what I said before, but a stunt changes the criteria from descriptors on the nullify power up a level to descriptors on the entire attack.


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## Shayuri (Jul 21, 2008)

_The way I imagine TK working is that it creates magical force that pushes/lifts/etc. stuff, so he attacked the curtain of magical force you were grabbing the bee with. To me its pushing it, but within the boundaries of this particularly powerful weapon._

But of course, I imagine it as working by making a swarm of invisible fairies move things around. Or, no, by making unmanifest spirits reach through the ether.

Wait though, my TK doesn't have the [Fairy] or [Spirit] descriptor? 

Doesn't have the [Magical Force] descriptor either. 

I disagree with the notion that because I didn't define a specific descriptor for TK, that means the GM is free to define it as he sees fit, especially when it's pretty clearly just to grant a combat advantage for an NPC. If there's some question as to whether or not a power would fit into a particular paradigm...you could always ask. "Hey, Shay. How's that TK of yours work? I need to know with some specificity. Is it just a magical forcefield that grabs stuff, or a focusing of lunar gravity or...what?"

Look...bottom line for me...I don't want to be in a position where I'm in a fundamental conflict over game philosophy with the GM. It is a no-win situation. It makes me unhappy...it makes the GM unhappy because he has to deal with my griping...it makes everyone else unhappy. Being unhappy is not fun for anyone. I think that's where I am, unfortunately. This sort of thing has, in various permutations, come up before, though I haven't always said anything. It will continue coming up. No one seems to have a problem with it but me.

I've given it some thought, therefore, and decided to resign from the game. This is a dramatically appropriate moment to write Thessaly out. I realize this may look like an act of spite or petulance, but that isn't how I feel about it. If it was just me being angry, I'd try to work it out. Rather, I fully believe that the game will be better for all involved without the conflict that my presence will bring. I also believe that I will be happier without that conflict. And finally I believe that the conflict does not have a resolution...it is not based in fact or letter of rule, but rather in personal aesthetic and interpretation of rule. This doesn't make either side invalid, but it does mean that there is no objective wrong or right, only agreement or disagreement.

I hope you all continue to have an entertaining and rewarding game. Thank you all for including me.


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## Victim (Jul 21, 2008)

It was nice playing with you.


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## Elric (Jul 21, 2008)

Victim said:


> It was nice playing with you.




Agreed.  You will be missed.  

I know Matt's been very busy recently and has been struggling to get rounds up at all, which accounts for the somewhat haphazard nature of this fight.  So I think he would have done more due diligence on everything throughout this whole fight (not just this particular issue) if he wasn't so busy in real life.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 21, 2008)

Elric said:


> Agreed.  You will be missed.
> 
> I know Matt's been very busy recently and has been struggling to get rounds up at all, which accounts for the somewhat haphazard nature of this fight.  So I think he would have done more due diligence on everything throughout this whole fight (not just this particular issue) if he wasn't so busy in real life.




Yeah, this is the case.  I really do hope you'd reconsider  I try to rectify mistakes and disagreements like this, and usually I've changed things in light of a major complaint.  Force was my impression of how this would work by magical physics (and the default descriptor in UP), but I understand that you disagree.  May I ask what those other times were where Ive done this?  I don't recall, and if there is a pattern of me making borderline assumptions about people's powers, I'd like to know so I can be more diligent about respecting PC power autonomy.

  (Also, tis a pity since I had a Viridian-specific story arc idea I was going to use soon)


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## Shayuri (Jul 22, 2008)

First I will apologize. As I reread my post, I see that some snark escaped, and the post has some inflammatory content as a result. Sorry. 

At the moment it's hard for me to put my finger on specific events. The game has been a long one, and I haven't exactly been keeping notes. As such, short of going back and rereading the threads in their entirety, I also apologize for making criticisms that may be too vague or blanket to do any good.

And honestly, many of the "problems" aren't really problems at all. They're just clashes of game style.

You have a very confrontational GMing style. That's not a bad thing, but it's something that ticks me off sometimes.  The game also has a very high combat/low RP ratio, which is a bit of a turn off for me. There's little to no integration of character backgrounds...I feel like we're all just frameworks to hang powers on sometimes. And finally, I'm not terribly pleased with the mechanics of my character in the context of the enemies we face. That's not a problem you have any control over, of course. 

Most of these things have been issues for me since very early on. I want to reiterate too, that I don't think it's a bad game. It's just not "my kind" of game.

I think too that 'confrontational GM'ing style' probably needs some explanation, since it sounds insulting.  It means that I get the feeling that you see your role as GM to be challenge/defeat the PC's with each battle. Rather than have the encounters set up according to the dictates of a larger story, or for dramatic build, the encounters are created with the intention of beating us. Here are the things that give me that impression:
- Overuse of Fiat. Your villains do this -all the fricking time-. I don't know if you realize how demoralizing it is to be getting your arse kicked, finally FINALLY get a break...and then see that "He rerolled, you get a hero point" message.
- Overuse of Superminions. For whatever reason, it seems like the scrubs are all armed with nuclear bazookas or something. And yes, I know...they're minions of a supergadgeteerwizard who equips them with magitech nuclear bazookas. I'm not talking about the story justification for -why- they're superminions. I don't even argue that superminions can be great...when used sparingly.
- Overuse of supersupervillains. This may be unfair, because obviously I can't see the sheets...or dice rolls...but judging by combat results, the vast majority of the heroic villains we've been facing over the past three or four encounters have been significantly over our PL. How many times now has Nitro delivered a devastating blow...that did a bruise...and then been staggered, stunned, bruised, injured, etc on the return despite all his uncrackable hide? Like before, I like the supersupervillain...especially as a solo foe who HAS to be badass to fight a bunch of peeps. That's a genre staple. Again, the issue isn't use of, it's overuse of. What if every single fight the X-Men had involved tag-teams with Magneto, Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix? 
- Everything is a fight. The primary conflicts in the game are combat-oriented. Every method of advancing the plot involves going somewhere and fighting. I'm not sure any of us have ever rolled a skill that wasn't combat-related, or for relatively irrelevant character side stuff.
- If I can find more specific examples that establish a pattern of rules judgements, I'll put it here. I won't make the claim officially until and unless I do.

Again, the mantra. None of these things are necessarily -bad- things. But it's not the way I like to play. Again, this is not new...it's been how it worked all along. I feel like I've given it a chance, and I feel like I've given myself a chance. It just isn't working for me.

I appreciate you had things planned for me. It is flattering, and it is tempting. I regret I won't have the chance to explore that arc.

I hope this is of some use to you. It's not intended as a beratement or a laundry list of shortcomings. All I mean for it to be is a list of things I feel separate us as player and GM. Other players clearly lack these hangups, and so are perfectly happy with the game. 

Again, happy gaming to everyone.


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## kirinke (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm sorry to see you go...... I think you'll always be welcomed back if you decide to use another character.


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## Elric (Jul 22, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> I think too that 'confrontational GM'ing style' probably needs some explanation, since it sounds insulting.  It means that I get the feeling that you see your role as GM to be challenge/defeat the PC's with each battle. Rather than have the encounters set up according to the dictates of a larger story, or for dramatic build, the encounters are created with the intention of beating us. Here are the things that give me that impression:
> - Overuse of Fiat. Your villains do this -all the fricking time-. I don't know if you realize how demoralizing it is to be getting your arse kicked, finally FINALLY get a break...and then see that "He rerolled, you get a hero point" message.




I find this to be one of the most challenging aspects of GMing M&M.  I think it's hard to get a line between the players feeling like you're "letting them win" and combats generally being suspense-less romps in favor of the heroes and ruthless GM playing including lots of use of Fiat that drags fights on and makes the players feel like their cool moves are never paying off (players can get caught without hero points, but GMs are less likely to get caught with Fiat unavailable).

I've tried to sort of mentally categorize fights into "Villains meant and likely to lose.  Don't go all-out as GM" and "Boss-type fight.  It's a war out there!" but this is GMing table-top gaming, where it's much easier to run fights than online.  I think the medium is pushing us into the 'all boss fight, all the time' kind of setup that we have now.

Edit- that said, we've hard some easier fights (the warehouse where we rescued the scientist, for example).  I think Shayuri that you felt particularly affronted by GM Fiat because you rarely had Viridian spending her HP.  It was almost exclusively on rerolling saves, but you could have easily surged in this last round of combat just now (had I been paying more attention to the fact that she had 2 HP, I probably would have suggested this OOC) and used two powers (spending an HP to buy off the fatigue).  This might have let you pin both Bunny and Bee or pin Bee and form a Create Objects shield, and so on.  Nitro has never ended any fight with more than 1 HP that I can remember- he gets them and then spends them.



> - Overuse of supersupervillains. This may be unfair, because obviously I can't see the sheets...or dice rolls...but judging by combat results, the vast majority of the heroic villains we've been facing over the past three or four encounters have been significantly over our PL. How many times now has Nitro delivered a devastating blow...that did a bruise...and then been staggered, stunned, bruised, injured, etc on the return despite all his uncrackable hide?




It's partly the size of our group, which necessitates tough enemies.  In this fight I'd imagine the villains weren't much higher PL than us on average (I doubt they averaged even PL 12) but some of them had nastier attack forms than any of us (Killer Bee!) and there were so many of them (Control Freak, his 3 guards, Efreet, Pharoah, Guardian, Leopard- to 7 of us due to Raylis's absence).

Side note: Though I know what you're saying here, Nitro doesn't even have a Toughness/Defense tradeoff.  Viridian's Toughness save is 4 higher than his.  Nitro's just inexorable due to regeneration/not taking lethal physical damage and he has Ultimate Save to make saves in dramatic moments.  He's supposed to get knocked around like crazy as every wrestler should be.



			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> - Everything is a fight. The primary conflicts in the game are combat-oriented. Every method of advancing the plot involves going somewhere and fighting. I'm not sure any of us have ever rolled a skill that wasn't combat-related, or for relatively irrelevant character side stuff.




This game is definitely combat heavy, but we're not 'never using skill checks.'  From Nitro's bluffing the guard in the first encounter ("I'm here for Miss White- your Steroid Cream") to recently, we have been rolling out of combat skill checks.  A recent example (this last bit was particularly combat-heavy and RP-light, so let me go back one fight )



> Viridian recognizes the new image from drawings she's seen (yay knowledge checks).  She's pretty sure that's not AN Ares.  That's THE Ares.


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## Victim (Jul 22, 2008)

Moving to ATT is looking better and better.


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## Vanifae (Jul 23, 2008)

I am back but the boards they done exploded.

Thanks for not getting me killed Victim.


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## Victim (Jul 23, 2008)

Just barely.  Sorry, that was a misplay since I wasn't sure about positioning.


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## kirinke (Jul 23, 2008)

Hmmmm. I have been thinking, do most of us have accounts at the Atomic Think Tank? It seems that lately Enworld has been very unstable, it might be prudent to move the game to ATT, because it does seem to be a far more stable board....


I dunno.


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## Elric (Jul 23, 2008)

I have an account on ATT, Victim does, and kirinke does (same usernames).

Matt is on there as well (Justice_USA, the name is his character in a now defunct pbp game there).  

Don't know about Vanifae or Fangor (or Raylis, who has been absent for almost a month now...).


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## kirinke (Jul 23, 2008)

In any case. I'm thinking that Hope (with therapy) is beginning to realize how selfish she was in going after Faust and company, in that killing the necromancers might not have been the wisest choice she could have taken and how close she did came to becoming exactly like what she hated most, all for the sake of revenge, something that her partner probably wouldn't have wanted her to do. So, if it is in keeping with that theme (Plus she's trying to reform her more bloodthirsty instincts), 

I'm thinking having Hope offer the Guardian the choice of coming with them freely, maybe offering her the proverbial olive branch. Mostly, because Hope was in a far darker place that The Guardian is right now, and could use that insight. If nothing else, she would probably be far better treated with them than anywhere else.

Pride might keep the Guardian from initially accepting her offer, but even death at the hands of the Americans would probably be more merciful than what she'd face in the Middle East. 

Your call, it might be a defining moment for Hope though, especially if the Guardian does accept the offer. Hope would do her best to win the woman over, she is trained for this sort of thing (winning the confidence of the captured bad-guy/criminal.) It's just been in the past few days, what with Faust and all she's been very much off her stride. 

Now she's getting back in. 

Also, next time we get PP, I'm thinking of having Hope gain Ultimate-Save Fortitude or Toughness, depending on what seems to suit her most, as she does tend to be able to shake off stuns alot, this would be in keeping with her stubborn nature. That and I'm also wanting her to invest in more luck-hero points.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 23, 2008)

kirinke said:


> In any case. I'm thinking that Hope (with therapy) is beginning to realize how selfish she was in going after Faust and company, in that killing the necromancers might not have been the wisest choice she could have taken and how close she did came to becoming exactly like what she hated most, all for the sake of revenge, something that her partner probably wouldn't have wanted her to do. So, if it is in keeping with that theme (Plus she's trying to reform her more bloodthirsty instincts),
> 
> I'm thinking having Hope offer the Guardian the choice of coming with them freely, maybe offering her the proverbial olive branch. Mostly, because Hope was in a far darker place that The Guardian is right now, and could use that insight. If nothing else, she would probably be far better treated with them than anywhere else.
> 
> ...




Trying to turn the Guardian might really piss off MS.  It pretty clear that she didn't kill her not because she doesn't kill, but because this would be a BETTER kill.  Also, its unclear what would happen if the Guardian wound up in American custody.  Its quite possible that they'll not want to piss off the Saudi and just release her.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 23, 2008)

Elric said:


> I have an account on ATT, Victim does, and kirinke does (same usernames).
> 
> Matt is on there as well (Justice_USA, the name is his character in a now defunct pbp game there).
> 
> Don't know about Vanifae or Fangor (or Raylis, who has been absent for almost a month now...).




Raylis does, but seems comprehensively absent.  If things aren't better next week, I say move.


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## Victim (Jul 23, 2008)

Yeah, Raylis has been absent on ATT about as long as here.

It's only been a day or two since Hope begin therapy, so that's probably like 1 session.  I'm not sure there is a "with therapy" yet.

I wonder if Guardian will run instead.


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## kirinke (Jul 23, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Trying to turn the Guardian might really piss off MS.  It pretty clear that she didn't kill her not because she doesn't kill, but because this would be a BETTER kill.  Also, its unclear what would happen if the Guardian wound up in American custody.  Its quite possible that they'll not want to piss off the Saudi and just release her.




No problem then. But the direction to where I am going with Hope is remaining the same though. She is actually slowly beginning to realize how selfish those acts were.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 23, 2008)

To me, I simply let the situations around Wren define his growth as a super and a person.  Now, with another death, and his not choosing to interpose, he's got a little bit of uncertainty on his mind.  Talk about a twist!  He didn't see her dying.. but, you know, there IS always a little option that he might just take... although it might be best to run this over with the DM. 

[sblock=For the DM]Seeing as how Wren has the ability, and the knowledge, he would like to have an option, one that might be a little harder to pull off than he would think.  With his ring, he can have Regen.  Using his full HP left, which should be 2, and then downtime of 1 day, would he be able to Power Stunt a Regeneration for the dead girl, but to where it would only grant her either 1) the ability to come back from death, but to where she would choose to leave the group and nobody would be informed of her decision.  She could live a new life, away from this type of power struggle, and try to live a normal life.  or 2) revive her, without her powers anymore.  this would be a trade off, with her not dying, but with the knowledge that she tried, failed, and was revived, with the loss of her powers.  Easier choice to leave the group, and fall into the back ground of the sotry.

Either way, it's an option that Wren would like to investigate...[/sblock]


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## Jemal (Jul 23, 2008)

I hate to say it, but I don't have the time to be checking multiple boards for games, that's why I've kept all my gaming here at ENWorld.  
Granted it's been... 'difficult' lately, which is a part of why I've been having troubles posting (though not the only reason).  
If the game does end up moving to another board, I may have to cut out. 

Besides, how could I abandon my post-count? 

Seriously speaking though, I didn't get a chance to weigh in when during the "Shayuri situation", so here's my belated 2-cents. 

First I really enjoy this game, and these characters. 

That having been said, I have sometimes felt similar to the problems Shayuri recently expressed.  Each of the badguys seems like he or she was built as a "One vs team" badguy, And then when they ALL appear in the same place, the results can be... painful.   I see where Shayuri's coming from on this, but I personally find it fun to be on the weaker side and trying to break out and win despite the odds.. that's what Heros are, isn't it?

However...
I also agree that GM Fiat has been over-used on occasion, which makes it difficult to BE those heroes beating the odds stacked against them when LUCK is stacked against them as well.  The problem is that as players, we have a limited pool of Hero points(Usually starting at one), and as the GM, you can use them whenever you feel like it, and we often have to use the resulting HP just to survive!  
I think my problem, more personally speaking, and the one that ticked me off most, was using a Hero Point in an attempt to put down CF when he was weakened and it seemed like our only chance.  I thought it was a fitting comic-book encounter/attack, and fairly cool.. Then he fiats to make the save... It made me using a hero point WORSE than nonexistant.

Think about it: If he'd MADE the save naturally, my HP would've been used and I would've gained nothing.  Since he failed, the GM uses Fiat, saying he makes it, and returning my HP to me... If the situations are like that, there's no reason to use HP EVER except for defense, b/c if you use them for offense you either loose them with no advantage gained, or you get them back and nothing happens anyways.  

It wouldn't be bad except that I've seen on numerous occasions badguys fiat multiple times in a single encounter. (Read CF again.  He fiated to make the save vs me, then fiated on his next turn to reroll an attack that missed me)

Also, on another note - I never got an answer as to how CF managed to control my visor AND my suit AND attack me... 


Now, I'm hoping not to make you angry, but I had to get that out in the open.  It did/does bother me, and (even though I'm certain this wasn't the case) made me feel like you were out to get me personally.  I'd like to talk about it and figure out.. well, a lot of things.. 
Was this a 'scripted' fight and you just wanted to keep it going the right way?  
Did you not realize you were using Fiat so much? (Obviously I primarily noticed it's effects on my character, but it appears I'm not the only one who noticed)
Do you have any problems that need to be adressed?
What was CF using to immobilize Optic?  Is there a way Optic could learn to counter it(as he also has the datalink power), or a safety feature he could imprint into his suit/visor to prevent it in the future?
why do hot dogs come in packages of 12 and hot dog buns come in packages of 8?
Can we continue to game together amicably/peacefully?


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## Elric (Jul 23, 2008)

Jemal said:


> That having been said, I have sometimes felt similar to the problems Shayuri recently expressed.  Each of the badguys seems like he or she was built as a "One vs team" badguy, And then when they ALL appear in the same place, the results can be... painful.   I see where Shayuri's coming from on this, but I personally find it fun to be on the weaker side and trying to break out and win despite the odds.. that's what Heros are, isn't it?




I asked Matt about this, actually- besides Control Freak all of our opponents this fight were all PL 11 (he tried to post about this, but the boards ate the post).



> I also agree that GM Fiat has been over-used on occasion, which makes it difficult to BE those heroes beating the odds stacked against them when LUCK is stacked against them as well.  The problem is that as players, we have a limited pool of Hero points(Usually starting at one), and as the GM, you can use them whenever you feel like it, and we often have to use the resulting HP just to survive!
> I think my problem, more personally speaking, and the one that ticked me off most, was using a Hero Point in an attempt to put down CF when he was weakened and it seemed like our only chance.  I thought it was a fitting comic-book encounter/attack, and fairly cool.. Then he fiats to make the save... It made me using a hero point WORSE than nonexistant.




Honestly, if hero points were not stronger when used on defense than when used on attack, fights would be too short, as there would be no incentive to save HP for defensive uses.  That's what you ran into here.  That said, had you used Extra Effort to Surge and hit him a second time you would have dealt him 17 more damage against which he wouldn't have been able to use Improved Roll (having already used it for the round).  That would have had a good chance of taking him out.  And at 17 damage CF could have easily still been stunned by the attack after rerolling his save (he actually took a bruise even on the reroll).  Generally, gaining a feat with Heroic Feat isn’t a great option if you’re only going to use it for one attack—but if you’re going to use it for two with Extra Effort it starts to look a lot better.  You have to be a little more clever about using HP on offense to get full effect out of them.  

But it's harder for players to use conditional tactics like this in an online game.  By comparison, it's much easier for a GM to use good villain tactics, since he has the advantage of getting to make his decisions in real game-time (and doesn't have to generally specify rerolls in advance, and so on).   Also, unlike table-top gaming, the GM doesn’t run into time problems while trying to do tactics for all the villains, many of whom he hasn’t built and/or has never run in a combat (in table-top games, I’m a much worse tactician when GM than when I’m a player).

By the way, I think that had you moved and then Surged to coup de grace the bound Control Freak (as a full-action), that would have knocked him out almost for sure. 



> Think about it: If he'd MADE the save naturally, my HP would've been used and I would've gained nothing.  Since he failed, the GM uses Fiat, saying he makes it, and returning my HP to me... If the situations are like that, there's no reason to use HP EVER except for defense, b/c if you use them for offense you either loose them with no advantage gained, or you get them back and nothing happens anyways.
> 
> It wouldn't be bad except that I've seen on numerous occasions badguys fiat multiple times in a single encounter. (Read CF again.  He fiated to make the save vs me, then fiated on his next turn to reroll an attack that missed me)




Fiat isn’t limited to once an encounter per villain.  It’s just like hero points, once per personal round per function.  See my points above about HP on offense vs. defense.

Lastly the problem that you note where the GM can’t run out of fiats for a character but we can run out of HP is particularly pronounced in these huge 8-on-8 style fights, where the course of the combat is much more likely to leave a few PCs out of HP and a few PCs with more HP than they need, but not that much good stuff to do with those HP.  



> Also, on another note - I never got an answer as to how CF managed to control my visor AND my suit AND attack me...




He didn’t do all of that in one round.  For how he immobilized your visor/suit in general: Control Freak is a nearly plot-level powerful technopath.  His technopath abilities are one of the most powerful things we’ve seen this whole campaign, from anyone.  

As I pointed out above, you lost a round due to not posting an action for it, and then Matt just mixed up your initiative order in a later round, which actually worked to your benefit in practice (though generally that would work to your detriment…).  This fight was run pretty badly in general, but I know Matt’s been very busy recently and by the time the next fight rolls around it will be run better.


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## Jemal (Jul 23, 2008)

I guess that's where much of my problem stems from is that I was pairing off with the BBEG and I just figured they were all about the same power level, as everyone seemed to be having problems.


> By the way, I think that had you moved and then Surged to coup de grace the bound Control Freak (as a full-action), that would have knocked him out almost for sure.




As has been pointed out numerous times to me, he was free by the time I got there b/c I missed a round due to being unavailable (My fault, I admit), so that point's kinda moot.



> Lastly the problem that you note where the GM can’t run out of fiats for a character but we can run out of HP is particularly pronounced in these huge 8-on-8 style fights, where the course of the combat is much more likely to leave a few PCs out of HP and a few PCs with more HP than they need, but not that much good stuff to do with those HP.




I noticed.



> He didn’t do all of that in one round. For how he immobilized your visor/suit in general: Control Freak is a nearly plot-level powerful technopath. His technopath abilities are one of the most powerful things we’ve seen this whole campaign, from anyone.
> 
> As I pointed out above, you lost a round due to not posting an action for it, and then Matt just mixed up your initiative order in a later round, which actually worked to your benefit in practice (though generally that would work to your detriment…). This fight was run pretty badly in general, but I know Matt’s been very busy recently and by the time the next fight rolls around it will be run better.




loosing my round earlier doesn't factor in, what I was concerned about happened after that.  Here's the timeline I see: 
We're Upstairs, he goes downstairs, I miss round.  THEN: 
Round x: I show up & hit him, he fiats to make it, then immobilizes my suit.
Round x+1: He shoots me (Fiat to reroll miss), I have to spend an HP to shoot him b/c apparently my visor doesn't work either (though I was never told this, or Why, or How, even though I asked both in the IC and OOC threads.)
As to it working to my benefit, I fail to see how.


And finally, re: Boards eating posts.  I'm not sure if this'll work for everyone, but I've been Copying my posts before i submit them, and if it eats them, I just do it again.  usually the second try works.


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## Elric (Jul 23, 2008)

Jemal said:


> As to it working to my benefit, I fail to see how.




He attacks you and misses, using Fiat to reroll, but still misses.  That gives you an HP but didn't inflict any harm.  Plus, CF has already used his Reroll for the round, so he couldn't reroll his toughness save when you Blasted him.  Then that he would have been before you in future rounds didn't matter because he got knocked out before his turn came up again (and then you got knocked out before he got back up...).


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## DM_Matt (Jul 23, 2008)

Elric's been doing a good job of defending me, but I obviously need to addres some of this stuff directly.

First of all, a general apology about this fight not being as organized as it should have.  I've been extremely busy IRL.  

Second, a word on difficulty.  Due to the inefficience of PBP gaming, I'm not big on easy fights.  If we are going to do a fight that you'll probably win, it might as well be a tough fight.  My view of FIating is basically as villain points. Since villains have no pp cap, they could have unlimited ranks of the luck feat, so instead in MM they get no hp (generally...I will sometimes give them some luck limited to being used to power certain feats and powers) but can buy them by giving hp to the good guys.  I did use it a lot this fight, mainly because I didn't give this particular CF battlesuit sufficient capabilities, so as a seriously major BBEG  I was more willing to let him use them.  Speaking of which, regarding his powers he does in fact have nearly plot-level technopathy (Its POSSIBLE to resist, but its unlikely).  Optic attacking him is basically like Wolverine attacking Magneto.  However, what Optic wanted to do was really, really cool so I let him spend an hp to negate it.  Its unlikely that Optic CAN get good enough to challenge CF directly techwise.  In fact, probably should give Optic an HP for a complication every time in the future that he has to face CF.  What Optic CAN do to improve his technopathy though is trade in a bunch of the ranks of Datalink (your range is like to the moon...but you cant target stuf you can't otherwise perceive), for ranks in Quickness: Limited To Computer Actions, which costs 1pp/3 ranks.  2 or 3 pp in that will make you much more powerful, since computer stuff technically takes quite a bit of time.  Also make sure your computer skill is maxed, and maybe even up int although its pricy.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 23, 2008)

So, any reply to my question for the DM?


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## Jemal (Jul 23, 2008)

Matt - Thanks for Adressing that. I understand Elric's very knowledgable about the system, but sometimes I have to hear things 'from the horses mouth', if you will.  
It's nice to know my feelings of inadequacy in the face of a superior force were well founded. 



> Optic attacking him is basically like Wolverine attacking Magneto.



And, just as Wolvie keeps going after Mags, Optic has found his nemesis.



> However, what Optic wanted to do was really, really cool so I let him spend an hp to negate it. Its unlikely that Optic CAN get good enough to challenge CF directly techwise. In fact, probably should give Optic an HP for a complication every time in the future that he has to face CF. What Optic CAN do to improve his technopathy though is trade in a bunch of the ranks of Datalink (your range is like to the moon...but you cant target stuf you can't otherwise perceive), for ranks in Quickness: Limited To Computer Actions, which costs 1pp/3 ranks. 2 or 3 pp in that will make you much more powerful, since computer stuff technically takes quite a bit of time. Also make sure your computer skill is maxed, and maybe even up int although its pricy.




Well, thanks for the cool vote.  I thought so too.  

Hmm, on that note, I had a few questions for you... I've been thinking of making some changes to Optic, but we have yet to (or at least I have yet to, I admit I missed a portion of the campaign) gain any PP with which I could make any changes.  SO, two questions on that front.
A: are we going to be gaining any powerpoints in the near future?
B: Regardless, would you be ok with me making a few alterations to Optic as he 'rethinks' his approach to the situation?  Either through Re-training, or redesigning some of his tech?
 There's a lot of stuff that seems cool, and/or a good idea at character creation but when you get into the actual playing, it either doesn't make sense, or doesn't get used at all.. (I quote your opinion of me being able to datalink with the moon as an example. )


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## DM_Matt (Jul 24, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> So, any reply to my question for the DM?




I'd think it would have more dramatic impact if she died for real, but if most of you disagree, then perhaps we can do that.


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## Victim (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't have a problem with her dying, but there's no IC reason not to at least attempt some extreme measures.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> I don't have a problem with her dying, but there's no IC reason not to at least attempt some extreme measures.




Well, perhaps.  Of course, if it is better that she die for real (with a big funeral and controversy about the mission and the emotional impact on the PC, etc.), its easy to just say that Wren's ring can't raise the dead.  Surely someone among his people has tried it before and has determined whether or not it can be done.

Now to another matter: Advancement.

Everyone is awarded 2pp.

I was thinking though about using gradual PL upping, allowing increases of one of the four capped traits plus skills at 3,6,9,12, and 15 pp awarded.  But this also reminds me that not everyone is at the same level of pp.  Would those who were here longer and thus have a few more pp have a problem with setting the entire group to PL 11.4 / 172pp ?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 24, 2008)

Jemal said:


> Hmm, on that note, I had a few questions for you... I've been thinking of making some changes to Optic, but we have yet to (or at least I have yet to, I admit I missed a portion of the campaign) gain any PP with which I could make any changes.  SO, two questions on that front.
> A: are we going to be gaining any powerpoints in the near future?
> B: Regardless, would you be ok with me making a few alterations to Optic as he 'rethinks' his approach to the situation?  Either through Re-training, or redesigning some of his tech?
> There's a lot of stuff that seems cool, and/or a good idea at character creation but when you get into the actual playing, it either doesn't make sense, or doesn't get used at all.. (I quote your opinion of me being able to datalink with the moon as an example. )




A: Answered.
B: Sure, go ahead.  That goes for everyone as long as there is a plausible explanation for things that are more than just some technical point-shuffling.


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## Elric (Jul 24, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> I was thinking though about using gradual PL upping, allowing increases of one of the four capped traits plus skills at 3,6,9,12, and 15 pp awarded.  But this also reminds me that not everyone is at the same level of pp.  Would those who were here longer and thus have a few more pp have a problem with setting the entire group to PL 11.4 / 172pp ?




No problem.  I think you mean PL 11.*25*/172 pp, btw.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 24, 2008)

Elric said:


> No problem.  I think you mean PL 11.*25*/172 pp, btw.





Its four capped traits plus skills, so at 3,6,9,12,15, +7pp is past 2/5=40% of the triggers.


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## Elric (Jul 24, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Its four capped traits plus skills, so at 3,6,9,12,15, +7pp is past 2/5=40% of the triggers.




Oh, sorry, didn't realize what you were doing.  So effectively we're PL 11.5 for the four combat traits, then.

In that case, I'd like to drop Improved Grapple (I've never used the feat, as ever time I've wanted to use it Matt has said it didn't make sense- and I kind of agree.  There are some situations where it would make sense, but if I take the feat it should really work all the time).

I didn't spend the last pp I gained before, so I've effectively gained 4 pp (2 just now + 1 unspent + 1 Improved Grapple dropped).  Then I'd like to take Prone Fighting (which I really should have taken from the beginning, not sure how I overlooked it), +2 Constitution, and Attack Focus (Melee).  Increased Wisdom coming next.


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## Victim (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm buying Power Attack and then something else - how delightfully specific.  Star's attacks have been pretty accurate, but haven't seemed very hard hitting even with the autofire.  I think the best damage she's inflicted has been stuns.  Also, if the normal bonus on autofire refers to the pre-autofire damage, not the base of the power, then she can actually get the maximum of +5 by using Power Attack.

I was thinking about shuffling around some of her points in combat traits.  Having Defense seems like a waste, since Star is still pretty much screwed when attacked with like a 14 or 15 base defense anyway.  Also, I was thinking of dropping the attack focus ranged and splitting it between base attack and attack specialization.  In terms of general combat skills, I don't see why she'd be especially good with generic ranged attacks over melee.


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## kirinke (Jul 24, 2008)

I made updates to Hope.

She now has Ultimate Effort: Fortitude, it seems reasonable after all the times she has shaken off stun, plus it goes in with her stubborn nature.

I also took away healing and put in ESP. She's never really had to use healing, so ESP would be more benificial to the group.

I added a point of luck, bringing her Hero points up to 2.

I added whispers of the future (pre-cognition), because we need all the help we can get, even if it is haphazard. I think we can handle it in game with her praying for the ability to help and being granted that by whatever Forces/Powers etc you think might be willing to grant it. Considering her ties to nature, nature 'spirits' might be feasible. 

I found that when I made the calculations I was at 169, so that's why I added the 3 pp


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## DM_Matt (Jul 24, 2008)

kirinke said:


> I made updates to Hope.
> 
> She now has Ultimate Effort: Fortitude, it seems reasonable after all the times she has shaken off stun, plus it goes in with her stubborn nature.
> 
> ...




Ult Fort is for people whose shtick is being extremely tough.  Ult feats in general are designed for niche protection. Hope can't take that one.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> I'm buying Power Attack and then something else - how delightfully specific.  Star's attacks have been pretty accurate, but haven't seemed very hard hitting even with the autofire.  I think the best damage she's inflicted has been stuns.  Also, if the normal bonus on autofire refers to the pre-autofire damage, not the base of the power, then she can actually get the maximum of +5 by using Power Attack.
> 
> I was thinking about shuffling around some of her points in combat traits.  Having Defense seems like a waste, since Star is still pretty much screwed when attacked with like a 14 or 15 base defense anyway.  Also, I was thinking of dropping the attack focus ranged and splitting it between base attack and attack specialization.  In terms of general combat skills, I don't see why she'd be especially good with generic ranged attacks over melee.




I'd rather you hold off on major changes in tradeoffs for the moment.  Maybe take AOA though.


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## Elric (Jul 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> Also, if the normal bonus on autofire refers to the pre-autofire damage, not the base of the power, then she can actually get the maximum of +5 by using Power Attack.




I don't know if you're referring to this, but I have an Official Rules Question post to Steve Kenson asking this question now (see here).  Steve back in the day said Power Attack does let you get extra autofire damage, but recently said that Power Attack does not let you get extra autofire damage.  So I asked him to clarify.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> I'm buying Power Attack and then something else - how delightfully specific.  Star's attacks have been pretty accurate, but haven't seemed very hard hitting even with the autofire.  I think the best damage she's inflicted has been stuns.  Also, if the normal bonus on autofire refers to the pre-autofire damage, not the base of the power, then she can actually get the maximum of +5 by using Power Attack.
> 
> I was thinking about shuffling around some of her points in combat traits.  Having Defense seems like a waste, since Star is still pretty much screwed when attacked with like a 14 or 15 base defense anyway.  Also, I was thinking of dropping the attack focus ranged and splitting it between base attack and attack specialization.  In terms of general combat skills, I don't see why she'd be especially good with generic ranged attacks over melee.




Oh, you mean Dodge Focus instead of Base Defense.  Yeah, you can move some of it.


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## Elric (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't know how many people are up for another M&M pbp game at the moment (on a different board no less), but if so have you seen Khantalas's pbp game in the M&M Game Room forum of the Atomic Think Tank? It's unlimited pp and PL, which could either work out terribly or be really fun.  Deadline is tomorrow night for character submissions- I've already submitted a character.  

See here.  It's been fun playing with all of you in Matt's game and it would be fun to have you there too (assuming we get in, that is- I bet this game gets a lot of character submissions).


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## Jemal (Jul 24, 2008)

OK, so Lemme see if I understand this, am I at 167pp now, and my PL cap is still 11, correct?

[sblock=proposed changes]
Subtract morph from my suit.  I've never used it, and it doesn't fit (seems more of a spy type of ability).
I'd also like to add a rank of immunity: Technopathic Control to my equipment.  Would this be acceptable?  If so, would it be a 2 pt or 5 pt immunity? 2 pts puts it on par with 'an uncommon power descriptor', wheras 5 pts seems more likely based on what its meant to stop.. entrapment effects.

  I see Optic as redesigning his suit, partially in response to flaws pointed out by his new nemesis, partially as a natural course of upgrades.  

Here's a suggested change to my datalink alternate power(part of which you suggested): 
AP: Datalink rank 8(9pp) Machine Control, 
Linked: Quickness Rank 15(5pp) Limited:Computer Actions only(1pp/3ranks)
Linked: Comprehend Machines Rank 2 (4pp)
Since the base cost on my Blast (which this would be an AP of) is 16, this should fit perfectly, allowing my Datalink to function over a range of 2,000 miles and when I'm linked I can accomplish Computer actions at 100,000 times normal speed, as well as speak to and understand any device I'm connected to. (assuming a free action takes ~1 second , that means that as a free action I could do programming that would normally take a full day)

I'd like to increase my computer use check, but it's allready capped at +16 (12 ranks, +4 int).  Which bring up a question:  is the skill cap based off ranks or total check?  It says 'ranks' on page 24 under Power Level, but I'm pretty sure people have told me otherwise..  (IE, Could I buy another 4 ranks of Computer Use and have a +20 check? *16 ranks + 4 int*)

Considering how often I use Hero Points, would you allow me to take one rank of the Luck Feat?

Please note that all of these are suggested courses of what I'd like to do, and I'm asking for GM input.  Any other suggestions, btw?
[/sblock]


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## Elric (Jul 24, 2008)

Jemal said:


> I'd like to increase my computer use check, but it's already capped at +16 (12 ranks, +4 int).  Which bring up a question:  is the skill cap based off ranks or total check?  It says 'ranks' on page 24 under Power Level, but I'm pretty sure people have told me otherwise..  (IE, Could I buy another 4 ranks of Computer Use and have a +20 check? *16 ranks + 4 int*)




There's a cap on the number of skill ranks (PL+5), and a separate cap on the ability score bonuses (PL+5).  So you could at this PL have 16 ranks in Computers and 42 (+16) Intelligence, for a Computers Skill of +32.  I.e., yes you can buy 4 more ranks in the computers skill.

Edit- also, I think Matt is just going to decree we're all PL 11.4, 172 pp (you can increase two of the PL-limited attributes).  But he only raised the issue in a previous post; he hasn't said formally that's what we're going to do yet.


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## Jemal (Jul 24, 2008)

Elric said:


> There's a cap on the number of skill ranks (PL+5), and a separate cap on the ability score bonuses (PL+5).  So you could at this PL have 16 ranks in Computers and 42 (+16) Intelligence, for a Computers Skill of +32.  I.e., yes you can buy 4 more ranks in the computers skill.



That was the impression I got from reading the book, but I remembered someone telling me otherwise.. Eh, well this is good news then.



> Edit- also, I think Matt is just going to decree we're all PL 11.4, 172 pp (you can increase two of the PL-limited attributes).  But he only raised the issue in a previous post; he hasn't said formally that's what we're going to do yet.




that would be nice.


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## kirinke (Jul 25, 2008)

Alright, I'll just switch that point to an extra Luck Point then.


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## Victim (Jul 25, 2008)

Star changes: -3 attack focus ranged, +1 Accurate Power feat, +1 base attack (0 pp).  -3 Defense, +3 Dodge Focus (+3 pp), so flatfooted defense is now 13 - I screwed up on the rounding before.  Power Attack (-1 pp, 2 left), Concentration 8 (zero left)


Star XP: Defensive Roll 1, 1 banked.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 25, 2008)

I've gotten no complaints from the ones who were here longest, so 11.4/172pp it is.  However, one addendum will be that you cannot have skills be your last cap raise.  This way, you still can't get to full PL12 in combat without reaching it PP-wise.  At 15, you also get the caps raised you aren't really using such as max ability scores.

RE: Luck.  I'm a little worried about luck inflation.  If everyone takes a lot of luck and intends to use them for rerolls, I will have to adjust the villains appropriately, and the fights would just take forever.  Luck is stronger here too since HP refresh every fight and not every session.

Optic: Immunity to CF isn't something you can just take.  Maybe if something happens such that you learn a lot more about how CF's powers work, you might ultimately get it, but not this time.  Quickness 15 is a bit much.  How about just 9?


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## Victim (Jul 25, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> RE: Luck.  I'm a little worried about luck inflation.  If everyone takes a lot of luck and intends to use them for rerolls, I will have to adjust the villains appropriately, and the fights would just take forever.  Luck is stronger here too since HP refresh every fight and not every session.




I agree.  Luck is limited more by social convention than point cost - until you have like 4 or 5 ranks, it's pretty always a good buy, especially under these conditions.


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## Jemal (Jul 25, 2008)

RE: Quickness Why 9 ranks, if I may ask?  I understand the thinking behind 1 day's work in a single second being a bit much, but does 9 have any specific significance?  9 ranks would be 1000X faster than normal, meaning in 1 second I could do the work of 16 minutes. Would rank 11 be allright? That would be essentially an hour's work as a free action while linked.

RE: Luck - as you may have noticed, I prefer not to use the HP for rerolls, but rather for the other special abilities.  
How about this: Luck (Limited: Not usable to reroll), costing 1pp/2 ranks?  
Or would you rather just say "nobody take luck, dangit"? 


Also, as to the 11.4 PL thing.. If I understand correctly, that means that out of the 5 following caps, we have 2 at the standard PL 12 cap and 3 still at the PL 11 cap: 
Skills, Defense, Toughness, Attack, Save DC
And Skills can't be the last one you raise to the PL 12 cap.
Is this correct?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 25, 2008)

Jemal said:


> RE: Quickness Why 9 ranks, if I may ask?  I understand the thinking behind 1 day's work in a single second being a bit much, but does 9 have any specific significance?  9 ranks would be 1000X faster than normal, meaning in 1 second I could do the work of 16 minutes. Would rank 11 be allright? That would be essentially an hour's work as a free action while linked.
> 
> RE: Luck - as you may have noticed, I prefer not to use the HP for rerolls, but rather for the other special abilities.
> How about this: Luck (Limited: Not usable to reroll), costing 1pp/2 ranks?
> ...




RE: Limited Luck, I'll think about that.  The question is whether at that price I'd want to also limit it to not buying off stuns, too.

Re rank 9, I was going for multiples of 3 since each pp gets you 3, and 12 was too much but 6 too low a cap.  You can still do a lot as a free action, but it makes sense to have to spend actions to, say, write a program.


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## Jemal (Jul 25, 2008)

Understood, tell me when you decide. 

I had a whole post where I explained each of my changes and why, and then I forgot to copy it before submiting and.. guess what... it got eaten. 

SO, here's the short version: 

[sblock=Changes]
I upped a bunch of my skills and swapped around several feats and powers to make more sense.  I consolidated a bunch of my minor powers (strike, protection, Speed, Regen) into an Array to streamline things (Doesn't change the cost).  I also swapped two points from his strength into his Wisdom, where it makes more sense (Upping his notice check in the process)

I altered the Datalink AP on my blast, as we talked about.  I dropped the quickness to rank 10, and changed it to include Visual actions as well as computer based actions(Making it cost 1/2 instead of 1/3, I believe), as a further extension of Optic's sight-based powers.  I realized that with all his powers, Optic didn't have any speed-reading or quick searching power, so now that I have this 'non-combat' array, it makes more sense.

For his PL increas, I upped Attack and Damage(save DC), and also altered his trade-off for offense from -1/+1 to -2/+2.  This means his attack bonus stayed the same, but his Save DC went up by 2.

I also wanted to ask you about a couple of my feat choices: Contacts and Well Informed.  These seem to be outdone and made useless by our Trust Connections, is there any (game/mechanical) reason for me to keep them?

Here's the new character sheet, tell me if there's any problems.

[sblock=Optic]
OPTIC, aka Jack Carson.
PL 11.4 (Attack, Save DC)

Abilities:  
STR 14 (+2)
DEX 14 (+2)
CON 18 (+4)
INT 18 (+4)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 14 (+2)

Combat : 
Attacks: 
+6 Eye Laser(+10 W/Visor); Toughness DC 25 (29 w/Visor) Range inc 100' (140' w/Visor)
+6 Martial Arts(+10 W/Gloves);  Toughness DC 21 (29 w/Gloves)
Initiative: +10
Defense 18
Saves: Toughness +6 (+14 in suit);  Fort +8 (4+4con);  Reflex +8 (6+2dex);  Will +8 (5+3Wis)

Skills : Bluff(+18/16), Computers(+20/16), Diplomacy(+18/16), Gather Information(+18/16), Notice(+20/16), Knowledge: Business(+9/4), Sense motive(+20/16), Knowledges(+5/0)
*Situational: Diplomacy Check for favours(Connected), Gather Info in 1 minute(Contacts), Gather Info auto-check first time meeting new group/individual(Well Informed); +4 Remembering (Eidetic Memory); All skills considered Trained (Jack of All Trades)

Feats: Assessment, Attack Specialization(Eye Lasers), Attack Specialization(Martial Arts)BenefitX3 (Status&Wealth - Vice President of Op-Tec, Knowledgable-+1 Knowledge checks), Connected, Contacts, Dodge FocusX8, Eidetic Memory, Jack of All Trades, Uncanny Dodge(Sight), Well Informed.

POWERS: 
Blast 10 (24pp) - Eye lasers, AccurateX2, Precise, Alternate Power: [Datalink Rank 8(Visual, Machine control); Quickness Rank 10(Computer checks and Visual Tasks); Comprehend Machines Rank 2]
Super Senses 14 (10pp) - Analytical(Sight), Radius(Sight), Extended(sight, Radio), Radio, Accurate(Radio), Danger Sense(Sight), Darkvision(noticeable eye glow), Time Sense, Microscopic Vision(DNA, Distracting, noticeable eye glow), X-ray Vision(not gold, Distracting)
Minor Powers Array: [13 pp]
 -X- Strike 4 (7 pts) - Martial Arts, Mighty, AccurateX2
 -X- Protection 2 (2 pts)
 -X- Regeneration 3 (3pp) : Bruised 3 (1/round, no action).
 -X- Speed 1 (1pp) : 10 MpH walking speed

High-Tech Supersuit with Power Gloves : Device Rank 5 (Hard to take away, 20pp) -  
 -X- Protection 8 (8 pts)
 -X- Feats(4 pt): Quick Change(Suit stored in belt, expands and covers), Improved InitiativeX2, Evasion
 -X- Enhanced Strike 8 (10 pts), AccurateX2
 -X- 3 pp

High-Tech Visor : Device rank 4 (Disarmable, 12pp) - 
 -X- Super Senses 10 (9 pts) - True Sight Limited: Can't Detect Hidden.
 -X- Enhanced Blast 4 (10 pts), AccurateX2
 -X- Datalink AP: Radio Sense (1 pt)

Drawbacks: Weak Point (1), Vulnerable: Sonic damage [Moderate Intensity, Uncommon frequency](3 pts)
Trade-offs: -3 Def/+3 Tough, -2 Atk/+2 Save DC
COST: Abilities 36 + Skills 25(100 ranks) + Feats 20 + Powers 79 + Saves 15 -4 drawbacks = 171/172
[/sblock]


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## Victim (Jul 25, 2008)

Do you really want some protection, regen, and speed in an array?  Wouldn't that leave you without the toughness or regen quite a bit?


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## Elric (Jul 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> Do you really want some protection, regen, and speed in an array?  Wouldn't that leave you without the toughness or regen quite a bit?




It's not actually an Array.  If you look at the total pp cost, it's just the sum of the individual pp costs.  I think the word Jemal was looking for was _Container_.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 25, 2008)

Jemal said:


> Understood, tell me when you decide.
> 
> I had a whole post where I explained each of my changes and why, and then I forgot to copy it before submiting and.. guess what... it got eaten.
> 
> ...






Victim said:


> Do you really want some protection, regen, and speed in an array?  Wouldn't that leave you without the toughness or regen quite a bit?




It doesn't look like that's actually an array.  All the powers add up to the 13p he spent.  Thats actually a container or even a list of powers.  

I was also wondering about your bluff and sense motive.  Thats a pretty extreme upping there, and its never seemed to be part of your shtick.  

Well-Informed is very useful, espeically with the descriptor of you accessing databases including the Trust's.  With quickness, you'll get to take 20 (DC 28!)  on that check using your  datalink (if you want to use it without the datalink array,buy a 1pp Feature for a satphone/modem in your quit).


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## Victim (Jul 25, 2008)

I'd imagine Optic's ability to see tiny muscle movements, blood flow inside a person's brain, and such would translate to an impressive Sense Motive ability.


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## Jemal (Jul 25, 2008)

Elric said:


> It's not actually an Array.  If you look at the total pp cost, it's just the sum of the individual pp costs.  I think the word Jemal was looking for was _Container_.



Yar, chose the wrong word.  Thanks for the catch.



Victim said:


> I'd imagine Optic's ability to see tiny muscle movements, blood flow inside a person's brain, and such would translate to an impressive Sense Motive ability.



Aye, that's what I was thinking, the whole terminator thing "judging from your skin temperature, respiration, and pupil dilation, I estimate a 94% chance you are lieing."  Its hard to hide the truth from someone who can watch your stress level rise, and notice all your little tells.  Optic's main deal is about Knowing, noticing, and seeing things, so I figured a maxed Sense Motive makes sense.  If it's not ok, I can change it.

I'll admit, the Bluff doesn't make sense as much, though.  I upped it simply to have all my skills maxed.  I think I'll drop it to 8 ranks for a total +10 bonus.. not shabby, but not exactly a master.  Looks like I'll also be dropping Contacts (Thematically it makes sense, but mechanically it's not worth much, as with all my other powers I can pull most info off the net or out of a databank) but keeping Well-Informed.

Any other problems?  Have you made a decision on the luck? Anybody have any suggestions on what to do with my left over points? (I now have 3pp normal and 3pp in my supersuit/gloves)


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## Elric (Jul 25, 2008)

Jemal said:


> Any other problems?  Have you made a decision on the luck? Anybody have any suggestions on what to do with my left over points? (I now have 3pp normal and 3pp in my supersuit/gloves)




Get rid of some of the accurate power feats/attack specialization and take some base attack (or even Attack Focus: either melee or ranged).  At the moment, Optic has a +2 grapple check and +0 to hit when using anything besides his fists or his eye beams.


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## Jemal (Jul 25, 2008)

'sfunny, when I first made him Multiple people told me to drop the base attack b/c it was too costly and since I allready have a melee AND ranged attack form I'd never really need it.


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## Victim (Jul 25, 2008)

Actually, I thought some of us said that it was weird to have a character running multiple attack forms with super hero experience that had no base attack.


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## Elric (Jul 25, 2008)

Jemal said:


> 'sfunny, when I first made him Multiple people told me to drop the base attack b/c it was too costly and since I allready have a melee AND ranged attack form I'd never really need it.




I said what I just said at the time.



Elric said:


> Also, if your charater is a "perfect man" kind of concept, shouldn't you have some attack bonus that's usable with something besides your fists and your eye beams?  Obviously, this is probably sub-optimal from a point-shaving standpoint, but buying some base attack and attack focus seems more appropriate than only Accurate on everything.


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## Jemal (Jul 25, 2008)

I don't recall ever pointing at you, I was actually reffering to people I know IRL.
Look before you leap, and don't get so defensive.


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## Elric (Jul 25, 2008)

Jemal said:


> I don't recall ever pointing at you, I was actually reffering to people I know IRL.




Fair enough.  Sorry for jumping on you about it.  And those people were right, as far as it goes.  It's no secret that base attack and base defense are overcosted for that they do for most M&M characters compared to Attack Specialization/Accurate/Dodge Focus.


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## Vanifae (Jul 26, 2008)

I loves everyones.


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## Jemal (Jul 26, 2008)

No problem, alls well wot ends well, ey mate?
I actually have put in a couple points of base attack (it's hard to afford, though *L*) in the most recent version, though I'm sticking with the dodge focus for defense.  

Also, Vanifae - hehe.


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## Elric (Jul 26, 2008)

Jemal said:


> No problem, alls well wot ends well, ey mate?
> I actually have put in a couple points of base attack (it's hard to afford, though *L*) in the most recent version, though I'm sticking with the dodge focus for defense.
> 
> Also, Vanifae - hehe.




By the way, in the last posted version you messed up your Will save, which gets +1 from the Wisdom increase.  If you only want to keep it at +8, that frees up 1 pp.

Vanifae- you're getting 7 pp out of this.  Start planning 

Also consider my suggestion to add a third rank of attack specialization to your "Guitar" alternate power, since it's 1 pp under its AP limit right now and exactly 2 points under your attack limit from your PL.


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## Jemal (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm posting a little 'pep talk' on the plane, though I'm not entirely sure where to go from here.  Are we going for some down time after this mission, to recover, or heading into a 'strike them back' phase?  Did we get any info on how to contact Mystery Super in the future?
Optic's going to be looking into all the data we've collected and reports we've got on each of the badguys and what we now know of them, would it be possible to get a list of what we learned about them?  (Aproximate power levels, attacks, strengths/weaknesses, powers, etc?)

Also, most recent updated character sheet.
[sblock=Optic]
OPTIC, aka Jack Carson.
PL 11.4 (Attack, Save DC)

Abilities:  
STR 14 (+2)
DEX 14 (+2)
CON 18 (+4)
INT 18 (+4)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 14 (+2)

Combat : 
Attacks: (Base Attack +2)
+6 Eye Laser(+10 W/Visor); Toughness DC 25 (29 w/Visor) Range inc 100' (140' w/Visor)
+6 Martial Arts(+10 W/Gloves);  Toughness DC 21 (29 w/Gloves)
Initiative: +10
Defense 18
Saves: Toughness +6 (+14 in suit);  Fort +9 (5+4con);  Reflex +9 (7+2dex);  Will +9 (5+4Wis)

Skills : Bluff(+10/8), Computers(+20/16), Diplomacy(+14/12), Gather Information(+18/16), Notice(+20/16), Knowledge: Business(+9/4), Sense motive(+20/16), Knowledges(+5/0)
*Situational: Diplomacy Check for favours(Connected), Gather Info in 1 minute(Contacts), Gather Info auto-check first time meeting new group/individual(Well Informed); +4 Remembering (Eidetic Memory); All skills considered Trained (Jack of All Trades)

Feats: Assessment, Attack Specialization(Martial Arts), Attack Specialization(Eye Laser), BenefitX3 (Status&Wealth - Vice President of Op-Tec, Knowledgable-+1 Knowledge checks), Connected, Dodge FocusX8, Eidetic Memory, Jack of All Trades, Uncanny Dodge(Sight), Well Informed.

POWERS: 
Blast 10 (23pp) - Eye lasers, Accurate, Precise, Alternate Power: [Datalink Rank 8(Visual, Machine control); Quickness Rank 10(Computer checks and Visual Tasks); Comprehend Machines Rank 2]
Super Senses 14 (10pp) - Analytical(Sight), Radius(Sight), Extended(sight, Radio), Radio, Accurate(Radio), Danger Sense(Sight), Darkvision(noticeable eye glow), Time Sense, Microscopic Vision(DNA, Distracting, noticeable eye glow), X-ray Vision(not gold, Distracting)
Minor Powers Container: [12 pp]
 -X- Strike 4 (6 pts) - Martial Arts, Mighty, Accurate
 -X- Protection 2 (2 pts)
 -X- Regeneration 3 (3pp) : Bruised 3 (1/round, no action).
 -X- Speed 1 (1pp) : 10 MpH walking speed

High-Tech Supersuit with Power Gloves : Device Rank 5 (Hard to take away, 20pp) -  
 -X- Protection 8 (8 pts)
 -X- Feats(4 pt): Quick Change(Suit stored in belt, expands and covers), Improved InitiativeX2, Evasion
 -X- Enhanced Strike 8 (10 pts), AccurateX2
 -X- 3 pp

High-Tech Visor : Device rank 4 (Disarmable, 12pp) - 
 -X- Super Senses 10 (9 pts) - True Sight Limited: Can't Detect Hidden.
 -X- Enhanced Blast 4 (10 pts), AccurateX2
 -X- Datalink AP: Radio Sense (1 pt)

Drawbacks: Weak Point (1), Vulnerable: Sonic damage [Moderate Intensity, Uncommon frequency](3 pts)
Trade-offs: -3 Def/+3 Tough, -2 Atk/+2 Save DC
COST: Abilities 36 + Combat 4 + Skills 22(88 ranks) + Feats 19 + Powers 77 + Saves 17 -4 drawbacks = 171/172[/sblock]


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## Elric (Jul 26, 2008)

Looks good.  Moderate, Uncommon Vulnerability to Sonics should only be -2 pp, though, not -3.


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## Jemal (Jul 26, 2008)

huh... apparently that's been wrong since i first made the character.  Fixing.


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## Victim (Jul 26, 2008)

I think Viridian is the one who got the contact info.  

Killer Bee's stingers weren't doing lethal damage AFAIK, so I'm not sure that Nitro would be especially resistant to their attacks.  He does a good Fort though, so it's not an attack on him instead of someone else would be bad for us.  Wren is immune to poison, so he might be the best target.

In terms of known, active villain abilities:

Barrington:  Devices (battlesuit, wrist things, ?). A forcefield that can also block visual sensory effects.  Gravity driven super strength with a base punch damage of 15 (so flight off the gravitics too?)  A firey blast that affects insub.  Illusion?  Immortality.  Very powerful

Control Freak: Machine Control/Datalink (with multitarget ability?).  Forcefield or battlesuit.  Floating Mines (autofire IIRC and trigger).  Wrist lasers.  Holograph projector.  Very powerful

Blitz: super speed, multi-target punching, lightning aura IIRC.  About as powerful as us?

Murder Mouse: armor, combustion power?  weaponry (enhanced by power) About our PL?  

Battle Bee: armor.  tactile sense.  Autofire blast with poison fatigue.  About our PL?

Bunny:  Hammer attack (seems pretty hard hitting) with Force nullify.  On one hit, the hammer applied fatigue poison, but not on others IIRC - so it may have been coated with 1 dose of the Bee's poison.  Leaping.  About our PL?

Ares: teleportation tech, armor, immortal, vampiric weapon, Redirect

Since many of enemies are tech heavy, they can adjust their powers with time/resources.


----------



## Elric (Jul 26, 2008)

Victim said:


> Killer Bee's stingers weren't doing lethal damage AFAIK, so I'm not sure that Nitro would be especially resistant to their attacks.  He does a good Fort though, so it's not an attack on him instead of someone else would be bad for us.  Wren is immune to poison, so he might be the best target.




Maybe not earlier, but they were definitely doing lethal to Viridian at the end.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 27, 2008)

So, we are all going up to 172pp?  That means I will gain 6 more pp to spend, as I am at 165 right now, with the previous +1pp saved.  Totalling +7pp.  NICE!!!


----------



## kirinke (Jul 27, 2008)

Sorry for the delay was out of town visiting with family. 

Anyway, I took away 1 luck point and put it into her skills. So she's down to two hero points. ^_^


----------



## Victim (Jul 28, 2008)

Is that interrogation session gone for good, or will pieces of it show up in dreams or flashbacks?


----------



## DM_Matt (Jul 28, 2008)

Victim said:


> Is that interrogation session gone for good, or will pieces of it show up in dreams or flashbacks?




It might if you want it to.  What do you have in mind?


----------



## kirinke (Jul 29, 2008)

If nothing else, Hope could get a 'flashback' postcog vision about the conversation with Viridian and Warmind.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 29, 2008)

Ok, again, does that mean I am going up to 172pp, with me earning +7pp to spend?


----------



## Elric (Jul 29, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Ok, again, does that mean I am going up to 172pp, with me earning +7pp to spend?




Yes 

Edit- well, as Victim points out, you aren't earning 7 pp.  But since you had only spent 165 pp so far, you have 7 pp more to spend than what you have already spent.


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## Victim (Jul 29, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Ok, again, does that mean I am going up to 172pp, with me earning +7pp to spend?




I don't think so, since you have started with 165 and then earned some XP from the Ares mission at least, and possibly the Foundry one as well.  So you'd be getting 5 or 6, I think.



> It might if you want it to. What do you have in mind?




Not completely sure.  I was thinking she might be waking up disoriented, panicing, and lashing out with her power.  Any other interesting ideas?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 29, 2008)

Victim said:


> I don't think so, since you have started with 165 and then earned some XP from the Ares mission at least, and possibly the Foundry one as well.  So you'd be getting 5 or 6, I think.
> 
> 
> 
> Not completely sure.  I was thinking she might be waking up disoriented, panicing, and lashing out with her power.  Any other interesting ideas?




Well, I;d rather keep her potential hostility to MS/Warmind/etc. to be at least partially lost, but otherwise you can do what you want with it.  And of course, since she isn't being forced to sleep exactly, you can also decide when you wake up.


----------



## Victim (Jul 29, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Well, I;d rather keep her potential hostility to MS/Warmind/etc. to be at least partially lost, but otherwise you can do what you want with it.  And of course, since she isn't being forced to sleep exactly, you can also decide when you wake up.




Yeah, I wouldn't have thought that she'd get back faces and idendities, so it wouldn't specifically increase any hostility towards MS/Warmind and friends.  It'd probably seem most like an unusually intense and disturbing nightmare, rather than an erased memory.


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## kirinke (Jul 29, 2008)

Hmm. Could someone look over Hope's character sheet and see if I need to take/add/modify something? 

In her utility magic array I added 
ESP Rank 7, sight + hearing
Whisper of the future Rank 4 (Pre-cognition, uncontrolled, can let others see/experience visions)
I added a rank to her notice checks
I added a luck point as well.


----------



## Elric (Jul 29, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Hmm. Could someone look over Hope's character sheet and see if I need to take/add/modify something?
> 
> In her utility magic array I added
> ESP Rank 7, sight + hearing




ESP rank 7 sight + hearing is going to cost you 21 pp (Vision is base 2 pp/rank; vision + hearing is 3 pp/rank).  So you have to reduce the rank on this.  You have pp for this array listed as 20 pp, but only have 6 APs and a "13 pp base power", which makes me think you thought this power would only be 2 pp/rank, at which point ESP would be the base power of the array (being the most expensive) and the numbers would add up.

As it is, if you simply reduce the rank you'll end up with ESP 4 (Vision, Hearing), which will only cost 12 pp and the array itself will only cost 19 pp again.

One more thing: you have Magical Awareness in this array.  Since this ability only costs 1 pp, there's no reason to put it in an array.  You should just have it as a general ability instead (it makes sense Hope wouldn't have to specifically activate her awareness to magic anyway).

Lastly, I'm sure it would be easier to keep track of pp if you had a line at the bottom along the lines of "Abilities 30 + Feats 23 + ... = (pp you've spent to far)"

One more thing: you forgot to increase your ranks in notice from 7 to 11, though you did increase your bonus and the number of pp you've spent on skills correspondingly.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 30, 2008)

A few weeks ago, a gaming friend asked if she could join this game, and I told her she could.  With Shayuri leaving and Raylis disappearing from the boards altogether, this seems a fortuitous development.  She will be posting in this thread soon to introduce herself, and her character will be introduced shortly.


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## Victim (Jul 30, 2008)

What name did she decide to go with?


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## DM_Matt (Jul 30, 2008)

Victim said:


> What name did she decide to go with?





Oh, lol, right.  The ATT thread.  PsiKi iirc.


----------



## Elric (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't know.  We'll find out soon enough I guess.


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## Victim (Jul 30, 2008)

I wonder when our base will be attacked.  It certainly seems like shutting us down would be on their to do list.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2008)

Victim, Steve responded to my question about Power Attack and Autofire: PA doesn't increase the damage you can get from Autofire.  See here.


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## Victim (Jul 30, 2008)

Yeah, I saw that.  Steve's ORQ responses regarding Power Attack consistently favor having more ranks and then using Accurate Attack (if desired) than having fewer ranks with more attack bonus and then using Power Attack.  

On the other hand, Autofire is rather expensive on a per rank basis, so I'm not sure that basing the effect of the extra on the ranks in the power is a bad idea in this case.


----------



## Elric (Jul 30, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah, I saw that.  Steve's ORQ responses regarding Power Attack consistently favor having more ranks and then using Accurate Attack (if desired) than having fewer ranks with more attack bonus and then using Power Attack.
> 
> On the other hand, Autofire is rather expensive on a per rank basis, so I'm not sure that basing the effect of the extra on the ranks in the power is a bad idea in this case.




I think it makes sense from the perspective of limiting potentially abusive power combinations- it's much easier to buy attack bonus on the cheap than it is to buy lots of ranks of a power with extras on the cheap.  Additionally, I think this makes more sense rules-wise than letting the extra damage from Autofire be affected by Power Attack.  

For Autofire, using Accurate Attack + a high rank Autofire power isn't doing much for you in most games, because you only need 10 ranks to max out the bonus damage.


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## Victim (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, I was thinking about other things like damage to objects and breakout saves.  If you punch someone with super strength, there's no difference if you normally do 15 damage or if you power attacked for 5 to get it.  On the other hand, if you switch to a Stun power, then there's a massive difference in the two attacks since the rank 15 stun has much harder breakout effect.  

Sure, you can readily use a cheap form of attack to fuel Power Attacks, thereby saving points on your power.  However, if that's not a serious problem on a normal damaging attack against a person-like target, then why is it suddenly especially problematic when you switch to a non damaging power or try to blow up a bank vault?  Especially since it seems like the normal damage attack against a person is the standard case.

Plus spending more points on the power isn't necessarily a bad idea, since it makes for a wider array and thus more effective APs.  A Blast 10 based array holds a rank 6 area blast.  A Blast 15 based array holds a rank 10 area blast.  It does cost more that way, but the extra expense does provide some fairly significant benefits that can come up quite often.  It's not like the added cost is coming to nothing (often the case for buying generalized attack/defense).

----------------------------------

When will that Gather Info be coming up?  While I realize that the skill takes time, we're not exactly talking about the most significant opinions considering the nature of her search.


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## Jemal (Jul 31, 2008)

One power that I thought Optic had (And we've played him as having it a few times) but  apparently, (I just looked) do'nt have on my sheet: the record/playback what he sees power.  What would it be costed as?  A super sense?  A 1 or 2 point feature?


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## Jemal (Jul 31, 2008)

Victim said:


> When will that Gather Info be coming up?  While I realize that the skill takes time, we're not exactly talking about the most significant opinions considering the nature of her search.




takes time?  Not for Optic. 
Gather Info in 1 minute(Contacts), Gather Info +18.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 31, 2008)

Jemal said:


> One power that I thought Optic had (And we've played him as having it a few times) but  apparently, (I just looked) do'nt have on my sheet: the record/playback what he sees power.  What would it be costed as?  A super sense?  A 1 or 2 point feature?




Feature, 1pt.  Buy it and I'll say you've had it all along.


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## Victim (Jul 31, 2008)

I didn't see Optic trying to Gather Info though.  And the topic seems a little beneath him, actually.


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## DM_Matt (Jul 31, 2008)

Victim said:


> I didn't see Optic trying to Gather Info though.  And the topic seems a little beneath him, actually.




I'll work on it.  I'll write up something preliminary now.


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## Jemal (Jul 31, 2008)

DM_Matt - Thanks
Victim - Beneath him?  I thought you were checking the web for opinions on our public image vs Barringtons?  And you're correct, Optic isn't (Currently) doing any info gathering.. about anything.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 31, 2008)

Man, I got some points to spend!  Looks like the ring will get a little boost, for another AP of that Teleporting that I have come so accustomed to using.  Not sure what else to take, so we'll see....


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## Victim (Jul 31, 2008)

Jemal said:


> DM_Matt - Thanks
> Victim - Beneath him?  I thought you were checking the web for opinions on our public image vs Barringtons?  And you're correct, Optic isn't (Currently) doing any info gathering.. about anything.




Optic could find opinions that actually matter - ie not those on the internet.


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## Jemal (Aug 1, 2008)

on behalf of the internet - HEY! Our opinions matter!


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## Jemal (Aug 1, 2008)

BTW, Most recent update of Optic (Including the feature).  It has 2 pp to spend still, does anybody see any problems with it?
Also, where should I put it? Lost link to the rogues gallery.. (Er.. we had one, right?)

[sblock=Optic]
OPTIC, aka Jack Carson.
PL 11.4 (Attack, Save DC)

Abilities:  
STR 14 (+2)
DEX 14 (+2)
CON 18 (+4)
INT 18 (+4)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 14 (+2)

Combat : 
Attacks: (Base Attack +2)
+6 Eye Laser(+10 W/Visor); Toughness DC 25 (29 w/Visor) Range inc 100' (140' w/Visor)
+6 Martial Arts(+10 W/Gloves);  Toughness DC 21 (29 w/Gloves)
Initiative: +10
Defense 18 (Base 0)
Saves: Toughness +8 (+14 in suit);  Fort +9 (5+4con);  Reflex +9 (7+2dex);  Will +9 (5+4Wis)

Skills(84 ranks): Bluff(+10/8), Computers(+20/16), Diplomacy(+12/10), Gather Information(+18/16), Notice(+20/16), Knowledge: Business(+9/4), Sense motive(+18/14), Knowledges(+5/0)
*Situational: Diplomacy Check for favours(Connected), Gather Info in 1 minute(Contacts), Gather Info auto-check first time meeting new group/individual(Well Informed); +4 Remembering (Eidetic Memory); All skills considered Trained (Jack of All Trades)

Feats: Assessment, Attack Specialization(Martial Arts), Attack Specialization(Eye Laser), BenefitX3 (Status&Wealth - Vice President of Op-Tec, Knowledgable-+1 Knowledge checks), Connected, Defensive Roll X2, Dodge FocusX8, Eidetic Memory, Jack of All Trades, Uncanny Dodge(Sight), Well Informed.

POWERS: 
Blast 10 (23pp) - Eye lasers, Accurate, Precise, Alternate Power: [Datalink Rank 8(Visual, Machine control); Quickness Rank 10(Computer checks and Visual Tasks); Comprehend Machines Rank 2]

Super Senses 14 (10pp) - Analytical(Sight), Radius(Sight), Extended(sight, Radio), Radio, Accurate(Radio), Danger Sense(Sight), Darkvision(noticeable eye glow), Time Sense, Microscopic Vision(DNA, Distracting, noticeable eye glow), X-ray Vision(not gold, Distracting), 

Feature (1pp): Optical Record/Playback

Minor Powers Container: [12 pp]
 -X- Strike 4 (6 pts) - Martial Arts, Mighty, Accurate
 -X- Protection 2 (2 pts)
 -X- Regeneration 3 (3pp) : Bruised 3 (1/round, no action).
 -X- Speed 1 (1pp) : 10 MpH walking speed

High-Tech Supersuit with Power Gloves : Device Rank 4 (Hard to take away, 16pp) -  
 -X- Protection 6 (6 pts)
 -X- Feats(4 pt): Quick Change(Suit stored in belt, expands and covers), Improved InitiativeX2, Evasion
 -X- Enhanced Strike 8 (10 pts), AccurateX2

High-Tech Visor : Device rank 4 (Disarmable, 12pp) - 
 -X- Super Senses 10 (9 pts) - True Sight Limited: Can't Detect Hidden.
 -X- Enhanced Blast 4 (10 pts), AccurateX2
 -X- Datalink AP: Radio Sense (1 pt)

Drawbacks: Weak Point (1), Vulnerable: Sonic damage [Moderate Intensity, Uncommon frequency](2 pts)
Trade-offs: -3 Def/+3 Tough, -2 Atk/+2 Save DC
COST: 36 Abilities + 4 Combat + 21 Skills + 21 Feats + 74 Powers + 17 Saves - 3 drawbacks = 170/172
[/sblock]


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## Elric (Aug 1, 2008)

Character thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=201682

The cost of your super-senses looks off.  Note that Radio in UP has been errata'd to 2 pp by default (and is acute, not accurate, by default) and that adding Accurate to a sense costs 2 pp.  So I think the super-senses you have would cost 13 pp (also noting that you have Extended on both sight and radio).

Edit- you just tried to use the Contacts feat in game, but you just dropped it from your build for not being useful enough 

Also, taking 20 on Contacts will probably alert someone to what you're doing, as the Gather Info skill says that retries are likely to attract attention.


----------



## Jemal (Aug 1, 2008)

DOH, Yeah I dropped Contacts *L*  'sokay, as DM_Matt suggested earlier, with my datalink I can search through interwebs and any information databases I have access to (which, with a +20 computers check and my status with Op-tec is rather substantial), and with my quickness, I can take twenty on this in a very short time.  It does limit my information gathering from actual people to whatever the 'norm' is for a wealthy, respected, connected businessman, however.

Also, I just checked Ultimate Powers page 84.  it has Radio as 1 rank and it's listed as ranged, radius, and accurate by default.  Editing super-senses and double checking math now..

OK, this should be more accurate: 

Super Senses 15 (10pp) - 
Analytical(Sight): 1
Radius(Sight): 1
Extended(sight): 1
Radio Sense: 1
Danger Sense(Sight): 1
Darkvision(noticeable eye glow): 2-1(noticable)=1
Time Sense: 1
Microscopic Vision(DNA, Distracting, noticeable eye glow): 3(DNA)-1(Distracting)-1(Noticable)=1
X-ray Vision(not gold, Distracting, Noticeable eye glow): 4-1(distracting)-1(Noticeable)=2


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## Elric (Aug 1, 2008)

Jemal said:


> Also, I just checked Ultimate Powers page 84.  it has Radio as 1 rank and it's listed as ranged, radius, and accurate by default.  Editing super-senses and double checking math now..




That's why I mentioned that Radio was errata'd in my post.


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## Jemal (Aug 1, 2008)

in what book?


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## Elric (Aug 1, 2008)

Ultimate Power, just as I mentioned in my first post on the subject.  See http://www.mutantsandmasterminds.com/gimmicks_gadgets/cat_ultimate_power.php


----------



## Jemal (Aug 1, 2008)

oh.  online errata.  I've always despised online errata's and refuse to check them.  I use the books except where the GM tells me otherwise.

I've made some exceptions for D&D3.5 b/c there was just so much and I had to keep checking it for clarifications on abilities that were previously hard to understand, but other than that I've despised them taking the rules from the book that everybody knows and changing them into rules that SOME people know.


----------



## Elric (Aug 1, 2008)

While I understand the sentiment, there's no alternative to online errata for printed books and Green Ronin fixes online errata in subsequent printings (and even included the core book's errata in the mastermind's manual).  Furthermore, much of this errata is simply used to correct mistakes- it should be pretty clear looking at Ultimate Power's Super-Senses that there's been a mistake somewhere, as the Radio Super-Sense and the Radar Super-Sense example are the exact same ability as written, except that Radio costs 1 pp and Radar 4 pp. 

The Costumed Adventurer does have the 15 feats he's spent those pp on, Plasma Control doesn't cost 4 pp/rank in the core book (it costs 2 pp/rank like any other Blast effect), Master Plan doesn't give a +2 bonus on a 15-25 and a +3 bonus on a 25 and up (it should be 15-24), and so on.


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## DM_Matt (Aug 1, 2008)

Jemal said:


> oh.  online errata.  I've always despised online errata's and refuse to check them.  I use the books except where the GM tells me otherwise.




Then let me declare now that official errata should be assumed in this campaign to be operative unless I say otherwise.


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## Vanifae (Aug 1, 2008)

Apollo is going to utilize his *Connected* feat and try and gather info for the current cause.


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## Victim (Aug 2, 2008)

I think Optic wins as far as getting information.


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## Victim (Aug 4, 2008)

Will Star and Black be moving on, or should she go deal with the Hope scene?


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## DM_Matt (Aug 4, 2008)

Victim said:


> Will Star and Black be moving on, or should she go deal with the Hope scene?




Whatever you want.


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## Victim (Aug 4, 2008)

I think I'd prefer to move on.


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## Psi Ki (Aug 5, 2008)

Guns eh? I prefer swords and arrows...


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## Psi Ki (Aug 5, 2008)

neither am I.


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## DM_Matt (Aug 5, 2008)

Psi Ki said:


> Guns eh? I prefer swords and arrows...





And here comes the new player...howdy!  She will be introduced at Vi's funeral.


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## Elric (Aug 5, 2008)

Psi Ki said:


> Guns eh? I prefer swords and arrows...




Well, I guess this answers what name you chose for the character.  Welcome to the boards


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## DM_Matt (Aug 5, 2008)

Psi Ki said:


> neither am I.




Neither are you what?


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## Psi Ki (Aug 5, 2008)

Elric was talking about how he wasn't getting emails from posts, and I was concurring- still trying to get my replys in the correct place.


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## Elric (Aug 5, 2008)

Yes, I do recall saying that on this thread, but I'm pretty sure that was many pages back and weeks ago- it's been working fine for weeks now.  I was saying that I had subscribed to the thread with "Instant Notification" and wasn't getting any updates. You have to subscribe (look under Thread Tools at the upper right) before you can expect to get updates, whether the boards are working well or not


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## Victim (Aug 5, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> And here comes the new player...howdy!  She will be introduced at Vi's funeral.




What a cheerful time for an introduction.

Hello.


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## kirinke (Aug 6, 2008)

Welcome to the boards.

Don't mind Star and Hope.

They're always sniping at each other.


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## Victim (Aug 6, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Welcome to the boards.
> 
> Don't mind Star and Hope.
> 
> They're always sniping at each other.




Yeah, expect that to flare back up again once Star hears about this precog vision episode.


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## kirinke (Aug 6, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah, expect that to flare back up again once Star hears about this precog vision episode.




She's just jealous that Hope has more issues than her.


----------



## Victim (Aug 7, 2008)

> (I was going to make this a longer scene, but it was holding things up)




No problem, it was nice to get even that.  We didn't seem to sync up all that well, unfortunately.


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## DM_Matt (Aug 7, 2008)

Victim said:


> No problem, it was nice to get even that.  We didn't seem to sync up all that well, unfortunately.




Yeah, sorry.

BTW, since there would probably be some redundant elements, might you incorporate your defense into the funeral rather than doing a big press event AND a funeral?  Sometimes this can work, and sometimes it can backfire, but the question is what is better for the game and the story.


----------



## Victim (Aug 7, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Yeah, sorry.
> 
> BTW, since there would probably be some redundant elements, might you incorporate your defense into the funeral rather than doing a big press event AND a funeral?  Sometimes this can work, and sometimes it can backfire, but the question is what is better for the game and the story.




Eh, it's just the way the timing worked out.

I half suspect that our press conference would backfire anyway.


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## Victim (Aug 8, 2008)

Are Hope and Nitro in the common area, or are they still in the hospital?


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## kirinke (Aug 8, 2008)

Victim said:


> Are Hope and Nitro in the common area, or are they still in the hospital?




I dunno. Hope is gonna be kinda confused on location because of that way powerful vision overload.


----------



## DM_Matt (Aug 8, 2008)

kirinke said:


> I dunno. Hope is gonna be kinda confused on location because of that way powerful vision overload.




Lets say she was released and is resting in the common area.


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## DM_Matt (Aug 12, 2008)

I'd really like to move things along, especially so that Psi Ki can actually join.  Thus, if someone(s) really wants to manage pre-funeral press stuff, you can go ahead, but otherwise, I'm going to skip forward and assume that Mr. Silver prepared the ground with statements, and you can do a press conference after if you want.


----------



## Victim (Aug 12, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> I'd really like to move things along, especially so that Psi Ki can actually join.  Thus, if someone(s) really wants to manage pre-funeral press stuff, you can go ahead, but otherwise, I'm going to skip forward and assume that Mr. Silver prepared the ground with statements, and you can do a press conference after if you want.




Okay.


----------



## Victim (Aug 13, 2008)

Is the group attending in costume?  Should there be any color changes or such?


----------



## kirinke (Aug 13, 2008)

Victim said:


> Is the group attending in costume?  Should there be any color changes or such?




I'd think so. Hope's costume is basic black with dark blue highlights, so she wouldn't need any 'mourning' gear on.


----------



## Vanifae (Aug 13, 2008)

How much time has passed?


----------



## Victim (Aug 13, 2008)

The funeral was the day after tommorrow, so a full day and then change, I guess.


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## Elric (Aug 13, 2008)

Vanifae said:


> How much time has passed?




I'd guess about 2 days.  The funeral is probably happening pretty quickly.


----------



## Vanifae (Aug 13, 2008)

Okay I figured Apollo spent the intervening time in California before zipping back for the funeral.


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## DM_Matt (Aug 13, 2008)

Remember that references contest?  I've decided to define the ones there are to be had.  I mark them with C for comic worlds, TV for TV, M for Movie, OM for Other Media, and RWT for real world trivia, and a number for points if it is not one per reference.  Please no Google cheating.  I'll have more as I remember them.

Killer Bee / Murder Mouse / Battle Bunny -  RWT(2)
Libyan Leopard -- C, C, RWT
Guardian of Mecca -- RWT
Pharaoh -- M
Efreet -- No points, too obvious
Warmind vs. Control Freak -- C
Baseball Stadium Scene -- TV
Alex Jacobson / Jaimie Reyes / Joseph Harriman / Jock D'Antoni / Stan Carter -- OM, 2 points
Darkwater - Too obvious, no points
The Pax - TV (Kirinke got that -- The Nox from SG-1)
Stone Guy - C (2 half points for reference and reason)
Dao'Lug - TV
Wolfsohn, Sheppard, and Doe - Jemal already got this one...Wolfram & Hart form Angel
Augustus Colson - TV, TV (1 pt total)
Ares and Sons -- Too obvious
Master of Force & Master of Will -- RWT, 2 points
Faust -- Too obvious
Onigumo -- TV
Mr. Silver / Jerry Gold -- TV
Geldarans -- TV


Anything else you can think of can count too...I am of course discounting concepts that are used in many places (Alien artifacts in egypt, color names), or incestuous ones (references to Mormonism and space tend to overlap with BSG, which is basically another attempt at Mormonism in space).


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## Elric (Aug 13, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Pharaoh -- M




Pharoah is based on The Mummy.  OK, that's my one correct answer.  Good thing I got it in by posting first


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## Victim (Aug 13, 2008)

Hmm.  Leopard seems like a combination of Giganta with the cat name of Cheetah - I'm really only familar with these characters from the Justice League cartoon though.  I could guess that Leopard is the national animal mascot for Libya, but it's a just a guess.

Ah, *Deus Ex *for our backup squad!  I just now realized.  Jock was the helicopter pilot, Alex the hacker guy, Carter the good general and supply guy, Reyes the doctor, and I'm blanking on Harriman.


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## Victim (Aug 13, 2008)

Stone Guy could be the Thing, since he's Jewish and thus a fitting Israeli super.  OTOH, he didn't have elemental control type powers, just the rocky exterior, strength and toughness.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 13, 2008)

Would Geldarans be the Klingons from Star Trek  or the BORG?  I am bad at this, obviously...


----------



## Victim (Aug 13, 2008)

Hmm, Control Freak and Warmind...  Cable and Deadpool had the sometime telepath Cable against this Black Box guy who had some kind of massive datalink ability.  I think.  Reading only one part of a series that makes numerous references to characters developed in other series tends to result in some confusion, which is probably why I read about comics much more than I read comics.


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## DM_Matt (Aug 15, 2008)

Elric said:


> Pharoah is based on The Mummy.  OK, that's my one correct answer.  Good thing I got it in by posting first




Indeed.


----------



## DM_Matt (Aug 15, 2008)

Victim said:


> Hmm.  Leopard seems like a combination of Giganta with the cat name of Cheetah - I'm really only familar with these characters from the Justice League cartoon though.  I could guess that Leopard is the national animal mascot for Libya, but it's a just a guess.
> 
> Ah, *Deus Ex *for our backup squad!  I just now realized.  Jock was the helicopter pilot, Alex the hacker guy, Carter the good general and supply guy, Reyes the doctor, and I'm blanking on Harriman.




She is in fact a combination of the two aforementioned members of the League of Doom, so 2 points for that.  But she was inspired by the still-outstanding RWT point.

Correct on Deus Ex.  The Trust does of course have a bit of a UNATCO feel to it.  Jock is actually a double reference, and Harriman is based on another you haven't guessed yet.  1.5 points so far for that.


----------



## DM_Matt (Aug 15, 2008)

Victim said:


> Stone Guy could be the Thing, since he's Jewish and thus a fitting Israeli super.  OTOH, he didn't have elemental control type powers, just the rocky exterior, strength and toughness.




And another point.


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## DM_Matt (Aug 15, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Would Geldarans be the Klingons from Star Trek  or the BORG?  I am bad at this, obviously...






Victim said:


> Hmm, Control Freak and Warmind...  Cable and Deadpool had the sometime telepath Cable against this Black Box guy who had some kind of massive datalink ability.  I think.  Reading only one part of a series that makes numerous references to characters developed in other series tends to result in some confusion, which is probably why I read about comics much more than I read comics.




Nope.  The Geldarans, btw, are EASILY the most obscure non-RWT reference, if not the most obscure reference period.


----------



## kirinke (Aug 15, 2008)

Control Freak sounds very similar to the guy on Teen Titans, in fact, they share the same name.


----------



## Victim (Aug 15, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> She is in fact a combination of the two aforementioned members of the League of Doom, so 2 points for that.  But she was inspired by the still-outstanding RWT point.
> 
> Correct on Deus Ex.  The Trust does of course have a bit of a UNATCO feel to it.  Jock is actually a double reference, and Harriman is based on another you haven't guessed yet.  1.5 points so far for that.






> And another point.




Four and a half points!  Look out, I'm getting points (Link to Penny Arcade, profanity warning).   Were these points worth anything?



> Nope. The Geldarans, btw, are EASILY the most obscure non-RWT reference, if not the most obscure reference period




Part of the problem is that there are just so many aggressive, evil space empires...  The other big distinguishing characteristic I can think of is that their abandoned ship has been fueling our technology and providing us with an awesome base.  That reminds of the situation at the beginning of  Robotech/Macross, but it's probably been used in other places too (it just came up in the new transformers movie too, for instance) - and that's not exactly the most obscure source.

Now I might have to replay Deus Ex for that missing guy.


----------



## kirinke (Aug 19, 2008)

I am going to be out of town and without access to a computer from Aug 21 through Aug 24. (That's Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.)


----------



## Victim (Aug 21, 2008)

Looks like we're just about done with our current thread.


----------



## Victim (Aug 21, 2008)

Saw this on ATT: 



			
				ElricPut differently said:
			
		

> Heh.   So much for that...
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> ...


----------



## Elric (Aug 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> (I wanted to see what Elric posted first; Nitro has generally been our go to guy for speeches so far.  Funny that people should have virtual stage fright.)




It's been a long day and I'm too tired to post anything resembling a speech tonight.  I'll try to post tomorrow, though.


----------



## Victim (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm having a hard time coming up with something classy that  praises V, says what we need about Barrington, and is in character.


----------



## kirinke (Aug 24, 2008)

Back in action, ready to spread the seeds of chaos amongst our comic book enemies!


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## Elric (Aug 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> I'm having a hard time coming up with something classy that  praises V, says what we need about Barrington, and is in character.




Posted.  Man this was painful to write.  I declare no more in-game funerals for at least 6 months in real time.


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## kirinke (Aug 25, 2008)

Elric said:


> Posted.  Man this was painful to write.  I declare no more in-game funerals for at least 6 months in real time.




I second the motion.


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## Vanifae (Aug 26, 2008)

Apollo is the odd man out he didn;t know her very well at all before she died


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## Elric (Aug 26, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Wren was not used to this.  Funerals were not his forte, but the young woman who now laid inside the coffin brought about a change in his heart.  He knew what Barrington was.  He knew where he came from.  He knew more about his alien race than Barrington would admit to.  Now, with all these cameras, newspeople, witnesses and such, it was time to even the playing field...
> 
> Wren stands, nodding to the ones that had spoken on behalf of their slain ally.  He takes his steps smoothly, noting the eyes of the people as they follow him to the podium.  As he stands, he first peers out into the faces of all those around him, sensing for any cosmic anomalies, simply out of habit.  Then, he speaks...
> 
> ...




Fangor, I think you're confused about the relationship between Barrington and Ares.  They're two completely separate people with completely separate backgrounds.  Ares is the one who is originally from another planet.  Barrington just uses alien technology.  From way back when,



> I believe that the man in question is one Lord John Barrington III.  (various info appears on the screen) He a genius with extensive knowledge of science and the occult, and is a freelance religious nutcase of sorts.  We are pretty sure he is the same person as Lord John Barrington I and Lord John Barrington II.  The first John Barrington, a British noble born in the Mideast to a Persian mother, was an archaeologist and professor of history, who, while excavating some pyramids in Egypt in 1918, claimed to have found evidence that the Egyptian pantheon were in fact real entities from beyond the stars that deserved worship and left behind countless treasures, including the secret to eternal life.  No one believed him, but he became a zealous worshipper of the Egyptian gods, and was suspected of being a supervillain who went by the name of Pharaoh's Curse, who specialized in stealing ancient Egyptian artifacts and killing archaeologists, often by enacting various mythical curses on them.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 26, 2008)

Elric said:


> Fangor, I think you're confused about the relationship between Barrington and Ares.  They're two completely separate people with completely separate backgrounds.  Ares is the one who is originally from another planet.  Barrington just uses alien technology.  From way back when,




[sblock=OOC [/sblock]- Ah, yes, NOW I remember... Ares is the gun runner.  Luckily, I did NOT post that thought, lol.

Wren takes his seat, not saying any more than what he has said....


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## Victim (Aug 29, 2008)

So it looks like we're done speechifying?


----------



## DM_Matt (Aug 29, 2008)

Yeah, sorry, things have ben crazy workwise and literally as soon as I got out from under that ridiculous pile, I got sick (probably from pushing myself so hard to get the other stuff done).  I'll get things on track though.


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## Victim (Sep 1, 2008)

I think it's pretty much new thread time, unless the 1000 post limit has been repealed.


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## Victim (Sep 1, 2008)

> Barrington is kind of lucky that Optic manages to jam the hologram before he has to actually answer that.




Especially because the follow up would mention worries about similar accidents and carelessness with his weather/soil altering towers.


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## kirinke (Sep 4, 2008)

Hope went someplace very private, far enough away from the funeral and press so that she wouldn't be observed. When she walked away, you could tell that she was troubled, but no more than that.


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## Victim (Sep 5, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Hope went someplace very private, far enough away from the funeral and press so that she wouldn't be observed. When she walked away, you could tell that she was troubled, but no more than that.




Sorry, I misread where Hope was.  It's been edited.


----------



## kirinke (Sep 5, 2008)

Victim said:


> Sorry, I misread where Hope was.  It's been edited.




No probbies. Happens to us all.


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## Victim (Sep 7, 2008)

I thought she was refering to a studio audience - but that's more talk show than news interview, I guess.  Given Star's lack of Sense Motive and inner knowledge of the media, however, I think letting the misinterpretation stand is reasonable.


----------



## G. Skylark (Sep 7, 2008)

Hello all.  I'm the new PC that DM Matt mentioned.  This game looks like a ton of fun.  I apologize in advance for inevitable screwups based on my lack of experience with play by post.


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## Victim (Sep 7, 2008)

Hello.  

Care to tell us about your character?


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## DM_Matt (Sep 7, 2008)

Victim said:


> Hello.
> 
> Care to tell us about your character?




In fact, Skylark, you should post her in the Character Thread


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## Victim (Sep 8, 2008)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Victim
> That was fast - Thess is barely in the ground. On the other hand, I guess they already have my replacement on the team, so why would they wait long on someone else.
> 
> (huh?)




Apollo joins the team after Star has badly injured or nearly been killed on ALL previous missions.  They are both agile, high speed flying blasters with blinding secondary attacks.  Each one brings a sort of special energy control trick - Star has programable shots, and Apollo can make sollid light objects (guitar).  

I'm not saying it's true.


----------



## Jemal (Sep 8, 2008)

I have an organizational problem.  I can't find my updated copy of Optic, it seems to have been erased from my computer ($@#$!), and can't seem to find the one I posted to the OOC thread.  I checked the Rogues Gallery, but that one hasn't been updated for over a year... 

Help?


----------



## Elric (Sep 8, 2008)

See page 10 of this thread.


----------



## Jemal (Sep 8, 2008)

Ah, thank you very much. 

Allright, I've updated my personal copy to account for the change in radio sense from what I originally had it as, as well as the lvl up.  I have 1 point leftover, I was thinking of spending it on a feature or some skills, but maybe I'll just leave it for now until our next downtime..

Anyways, here's the 'current' version to make sure the DM's good with it before I edit the Rogue's Gallery (Which should probably be done before we get into a situation where stats matter...)

[sblock=Optic]
OPTIC, aka Jack Carson.
PL 11.4 (Attack, Save DC)

Abilities:  
STR 14 (+2)
DEX 14 (+2)
CON 18 (+4)
INT 18 (+4)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 14 (+2)

Combat : 
Attacks: (Base Attack +2)
+6 Eye Laser(+10 W/Visor); Toughness DC 25 (29 w/Visor) Range inc 100' (140' w/Visor)
+6 Martial Arts(+10 W/Gloves);  Toughness DC 21 (29 w/Gloves)
Initiative: +10
Defense 18 (Base 0)
Saves: Toughness +8 (+14 in suit);  Fort +9 (5+4con);  Reflex +9 (7+2dex);  Will +9 (5+4Wis)

Skills(84 ranks): Bluff(+10/8), Computers(+20/16), Diplomacy(+12/10), Gather Information(+18/16), Notice(+20/16), Knowledge: Business(+9/4), Sense motive(+18/14), Knowledges(+5/0)

*Situational: Diplomacy Check for favours(Connected), Gather Info in 1 minute(Contacts), Gather Info auto-check first time meeting new group/individual(Well Informed); +4 Remembering (Eidetic Memory); All skills considered Trained (Jack of All Trades)

Feats: Accurate Attack, Assessment, Attack Specialization(Martial Arts), Attack Specialization(Eye Laser), BenefitX3 (Status&Wealth - Vice President of Op-Tec, Knowledgable-+1 Knowledge checks), Connected, Defensive Roll X2, Dodge FocusX8, Eidetic Memory, Jack of All Trades, Power Attack, Uncanny Dodge(Sight), Well Informed.

POWERS: 
Blast 10 (23pp) - Eye lasers, Accurate, Precise, Alternate Power: [Datalink Rank 8(Visual, Machine control); Quickness Rank 10(Computer checks and Visual Tasks); Comprehend Machines Rank 2]

Super Senses 14 (10pp) - Analytical(Sight), Radius(Sight), Extended(sight), Danger Sense(Sight), Darkvision(noticeable eye glow), Time Sense, Microscopic Vision(DNA, Distracting, noticeable eye glow), X-ray Vision(not gold, Distracting) 
Feature(1pp): Record/Playback

Minor Powers Container: [12 pp]
 -X- Strike 4 (6 pts) - Martial Arts, Mighty, Accurate
 -X- Protection 2 (2 pts)
 -X- Regeneration 3 (3pp) : Bruised 3 (1/round, no action).
 -X- Speed 1 (1pp) : 10 MpH walking speed

High-Tech Supersuit with Power Gloves : Device Rank 4 (Hard to take away, 16pp) -  
 -X- Protection 6 (6 pts)
 -X- Feats(4 pt): Quick Change(Suit stored in belt, expands and covers), Improved InitiativeX2, Evasion
 -X- Enhanced Strike 8 (10 pts), AccurateX2

High-Tech Visor : Device rank 4 (Disarmable, 12pp) - 
 -X- Super Senses 10 (9 pts) - True Sight Limited: Can't Detect Hidden.
 -X- Enhanced Blast 4 (10 pts), AccurateX2
 -X- Datalink AP: Radio Sense (1pp feat)

Drawbacks: Weak Point (1), Vulnerable: Sonic damage [Moderate Intensity, Uncommon frequency](2 pts)
Trade-offs: -3 Def/+3 Tough, -2 Atk/+2 Save DC
COST: 36 Abilities + 4 Combat + 21 Skills + 23 Feats + 74 Powers + 17 Saves - 3 drawbacks = 171/172

**FREE EQUIPMENT
1 multitool (1ep), 1 set of masterwork handcuffs (2ep), 1 commlink (1ep), 1 (idealized) iPhone (masterwork computer, cell phone, camera 4ep), 1 flashlight (1ep),  1 SigSaur P226 9mm masterwork heavy pistol w/silencer, laser sight, and ammo (11ep, +4dmg, +2 to attack)
**

The 28 year old Jack Carson is near the peak of human perfection.. Strong, fast, healthy, smart, charming.  He's a well-known, respected, and admired businessman with contacts everywhere, The vice president of Op-Tec, a company that specializes in fiber-optics and computer technology, specifically with regards to Military contracts.  He has been involved in numerous athletic competitions.  He's also not entirely Human... Jack Carson is, in his off-time, the mutant super-hero known as Optic.
Optic has been fighting crime in one form or another for over a decade.  He's a 2nd generation mutant and super hero, son of Bendy-Girl(Deceased) and a computer technician named William Carson(Retired Businessman, founder of Op-Tec).  With his current status and contacts in the company his father built, he was able to gain access to an experimental super-suit of very light-weight material, and a custom-made visor which enhances his allready impressive array of eye powers.  For the past several years, he's been splitting his time between helping to run the company alongside his older sister (Claren, no known mutation) and using a combination of his skills, mutant super powers, and enhanced technology to fight terrorists, super-villains, and general all-around bad guys.  Recently he has become rather depressed by the apparent abundance of badguys and lack of organization amongst the few super-heroes that are known.  There has to be some way of contacting the other Heroes, but he's been unable to do so yet.  There's something he isn't just seeing, and for someone who sees as much as Jack, that is the most frustrating thing of them all... This was the mood he was in when he got home from a late night, tossing his visor on the table in front of him, he lay on the couch and absently turned on the TV, willing to let the ambient noise send him off to sleep... But the TV seemed to be mirroring his thoughts, and as he sat up after changing the channel several times, trying to find a station that WASN'T giving him bad news, he received the message.  He didn't bother writing down the license plate, his memory had always been good... "photographic" he always liked joking, and he pictured the van in his mind, exactly as he knew it would look.  He'd recognize it.  And he'd be there.  This was exactly what Jack Carson.. no, what OPTIC, was born for.[/sblock]


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 8, 2008)

Great, I better start reading up on the Container power to update Wren...  Man, life has been BUSY!  Looking for second job, so things might get hectic for a few more days...


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 15, 2008)

Ok, I am now evacuated from Houston after not having electricity, water or phone line, so it's taking me some time to get things together.  I kept some files on pen drive, which has my tentative updates.  Once I compile a full update to Wren, along with reason's for NOT increasing some powers, while increasing other in his Array, I will post for critique.  I am sure that there will be some, but for now, the simply updates would be more Concetration (Skill PL Limit Increase), Better CON (+2 increase with Toughness PL Limit Increase), and then the Device Power increased to allow Array Powers with 42pp for each power.  

Strike is changing to Paralyzing Strike 11 (Linked Power, to allow a little flare on his strike)

New AP is Teleport (Since I used it enough to learn to use it effectively enough)

Full info will be included, but questions to clarify:

1 - Are linked power, like Paralyze and Strike an option to use?
2 - Did I get it right, that the PL Limits are limited to two increases, which I chose Toughness and Skills?
3 - Am I able to alter (slightly improve) powers in the array that now have more pp to allow on each power? 

Thanks!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 15, 2008)

*Wren's Changes - Tentative upon approval*

Ok, Here goes the Changes to Wren:
7 pp to spend, Increase Toughness & Skill Caps to PL 12
2pp to CON
1pp to Skills +4 to Concentration
4pp to Device

Ability Scores---------(30pp)[sblock=Ability Scores CHANGES]
Strength: 14 (+2)
Dexterity: 12 (+1)
Constitution: 24 (+7)
Intelligence: 10 (+0)
Wisdom: 12 (+1)
Charisma: 18 (+4)[/sblock]
Saves---------(25pp)[sblock=Saves CHANGES]
Toughness: +14 (+7 Con, +7 Force Field)
Fortitude: +11 (+7 Con) 4pp
Reflex: +9 (+1 Dex) 8pp
Willpower: +14 (1 Wis) 13pp[/sblock]
Combat---------(16pp)[sblock=Combat NO Changes]
Attack Bonus: +5 (+7 Ranged, +11 Cosmic Array Attacks) 10pp
Damage Bonus: Unarmed +2 (Bruise)
Grapple: +5
Defense Bonus: +9 (+3 Base, +6 Dodge) 6pp
Initiative: +1[/sblock]
Skills---------(15pp)[sblock=Skills CHANGES]
Bluff - 0 (+4)=4
Climb - 0 (+4)=4
Concentration – 16r (+1)=17
Diplomacy - 10r (+4)=14
Disguise - 0 (+4)=4
Escape Artist - 0 (+1)=1
Gather Info - 10 (+4)=14
Handle Animal - 0 (+4)=4
Intimidate - 0 (+4)=4
Notice - 12r (+1)=13
Search - 0 (+0)=0
Sense Motive – 12r (+1)=13
Stealth - 0 (+1)=1
Survival - 0 (+1)=1
Swim - 0 (+2)=2[/sblock]
Feats---------(22pp)[sblock=Feats NO CHANGES]
Dodge Focus (6): +6 dodge bonus
Eidetic Memory (): Perfect recall of everything you have experienced
Fearless (): Immunity to fear effects
Attack Focus Ranged (2): +2 bonus on ranged attacks
Attack Specialization (2): +4 bonus to Cosmic Array Attacks
Leadership (): Spend Hero point to remove adverse condition from ally
Inspire (4): Grant allies +4 to attacks, saves, & checks by spending Hero Point
Interpose (): Can switch places with Adjacent ally as Reaction for defending attacks
Luck (2): Gain 2 Hero Points
Uncanny Dodge (); Retain Dodge bonus while Flat-Footed, Sight Dependent
Precise Shot (): No penalty for shooting or throwing into melee[/sblock]
Innate Powers---------(21pp)[sblock=Innate Powers NO CHANGES]
Immunity 5
Effect: Defense
Range: Personal
Action: Reaction
Duration: Permanent
Suffocation [+2], Aging [+1], Disease [+1], Poison [+1]
Total Cost: (5pp)

Force Field 7
Effect: Defense
Range: Personal
Action: Free
Duration: Sustained
Extras: Impervious [+7]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: None
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (14pp)

Flight 3 (Cosmic Board)
Effect: Movement
Range: Personal
Action: Move (Active)
Duration: Sustained
Extras: None
Flaws: Platform [-1]
Power Feats: None
Drawbacks: Reduced Load [-1] (Medium Load)
Total Cost: (2pp)[/sblock]
Device Powers---------(46pp)[sblock=Device CHANGES]
Ring of Cosmic Channeling-
This is his lone item from his home-world. It is a testament to his race’s abilities to harness Cosmic Energy and channel it through a medium. Finding that rings are easier to handle, it was decided that all others of his race would have identical rings to identify themselves to each other. Each of these rings is imbued with an array of powers that are at the users disposal, although they are independent of each other. Only one power can be effectively used each time the ring is used. Guardian's ring is tuned to his own life, and will not work for anyone else, and can not be used against himself.

Device 11 (4/rank)
Effect: General
Range: Personal
Action: Reaction
Duration: Permanent (Innate)
4 point per rank option, Ring is Focus of Cosmic Power and Hard to lose
Extras: None
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Restrictions [2] (His Use Only)
Drawbacks: *Recharge*
Total Cost: (46pp)
*Allows 55pp for Device Powers

Super Strength 1
+5 to Strength score
Type: Trait
Range: Personal
Action: None (Passive)
Duration: Continuous
Extras: None
Flaws: None
Power Feats: None
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (2pp)

Cosmic Awareness – Sense the use of powers or effects of Cosmic Energy.
Super Senses 1
Effect: Sensory
Range: Personal
Action: None (Passive)
Duration: Continuous
Extras: None
Flaws: None
Power Feats: None
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (1pp)

Regeneration 2
Effect: Alteration
Range: Personal
Action: Reaction
Duration: Permanent
Resurrection x2 (1 Day)
Extras: None
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Regrowth
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (3pp)[/sblock]

Cosmic Energy Control (2/rank)[sblock=Array Powers CHANGES]
Array 21 (42base,+7AP) 49pp

Cosmic Energy Control (Blast) 11 (3/rank)
Effect: Attack (+11)
Range: Ranged (110')
Action: Standard
Duration: Instant
Extras: Autofire [+1], Partial Penetrating [3+1=4]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Affects Insubstantial x2
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (39/42pp)

Alt Power 1
Deflect Rank 10 (4/rank)
Effect: Defense (Block +10, -2 per additional)
Range: Touch/(1000’max, 100' Increments)
Action: Standard
Duration: Instant
3 Points per Rank Option - All ranged and mental attacks
Extras: Ranged (Increment of 10’x Power Rank) [+1]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Triggered x2
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (42/42pp)

Alt Power 2
Paralyzing Strike 11 (2/rank)
Effect: Attack (+11)
Range: Touch
Action: Standard
Duration: Instant
Extras: Partial Penetrating [3+1=4] / None
Flaws: None / Sense Dependant (Sight)
Power Feats: Incurable, Affect Insubstantial x2, Accuracy, Knockback x5
Total Cost: (24pp+11pp=35/42pp )

Alt Power 3
Snare 11 (3/rank)
Effect: Attack (+11)
Range: Ranged
Action: Standard
Duration: Instant
Extras: Transparent [+1]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Reversible, Tether, Affect Insubstantial x2
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (37pp/42pp)

Alt Power 4
Heal 10 (3/rank)
Effect: Alteration
Range: Touch/Ranged
Action: Standard
Duration: Instant
Extras: Action [+1]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Persistent, Regrowth, Stabilize
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (33/42pp)

Alt Power 5
Create Objects 9 (4/rank)
Effect: General
Range: Ranged
Action: Standard
Duration: Continuous
Extras: Movable [+1], Duration (Continuous) [+1]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Innate, Precise, Stationary, Subtle, Tether, Progression (10’Cube x rank)
Total Cost: (42/42pp)

Alt Power 6
Cosmic Energy Control (Blast) 11 (3/rank)
Effect: Attack (+11)
Range: Ranged (100'max, -1 dmg per 10’)
Action: Standard
Duration: Instant
Extras: Area Burst[+1]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Affects Insubstantial x2, Knockback x3
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (38/42pp)

Alt Power 7
Teleport 6 (6/rank)
Type: Movement
Range: Personal
Action: Move (active)/Full Round
Duration: Instant
Extras: Accurate [+1], Affects Others [+1], Area [+1], Selective [+1]
Flaws: None
Power Feats: Change Velocity, Easy, Turnabout, Progression x3
Drawbacks: None
Total Cost: (42/42pp)[/sblock]
Drawbacks------------[sblock=drawbacks and Totals]
Ring of Cosmic Channeling requires a daily recharge from him. This can be anytime the ring is out of energy, usually lasting 23 hours at a time. After 23 hours of no recharging, the ring’s powers are lost. Recharging the ring is a meditative focus, where he has to have the following circumstances; the ring, a cosmic focus (single star, the moon, or the sun), and one hour of meditation. Meditation is a relative term, up to the GM’s discretion. Upon completion, the ring is recharged for another 23 hours of powers.
Type: Power Loss (*Recharge* Daily)
Frequency DC5
Severity DC5 (-3pp)
----------Trade Offs------------
Defense -2, Toughness +2
----------Cost Summary---------
Abilities: 30
Combat: 16
Saves: 25
Skills: 15
Feats: 22
Powers: 67
Drawbacks: -3
Total Cost: 172/172[/sblock]


Ok, in a nutshelld, here goes the reasons for power changes, AP by AP...


1 - Cosmic Energy Control Blast Array Power ONLY increased the Penetration by 1, to total of Partial Penetrating 4, leaving 3pp left on that power. When the Power Cap is increased on Wren, I will then disperse those last 3pp to increase the Power to Blast 12, appropriately leveling him.


2 -Deflect increased 1 Power Rank, increased range, and Block +10. Improves his defending, but not an ability he uses a lot.


3 - Biggest Change, Paralyzing Strike. Increased original Strike 11 to include a Paralyzing Linked power. Meets all requirements of linked power, with range, duration, action, power level, by adding a flaw in the linked effect requiring SIGHT from foe to work. Think of it as Cosmic Strike, with energized surge of cosmic energy that blinds the foe with paralyzing effect. I also added +1 to Partial Penetrating to result in Partial Penetrating 4. Question is, the Power Feats were originally designed for the Strike Power, but would I be able to move some over to be power feats for the Paraylzing Power instead? Such as Knockback5? My thinking was that the attack would possibly hit. Targets have 2 saves. Strike Save and Paralyzing Save. They fail the strike, they take the dmg. They fail the Paralyzing save, they are then subject to the Knockback from the power and the paralyze. Or am I totally messing things up by using Power Feats on this?


5 - Create Objects changes to rank 9, nothing big.


6 - Teleport Power added, only rank 6, and allows a few special power feats that he's going to need with the group. Area, selective, Affects Others, and Accurate coupled with Change Velocity, Turnabout, Easy, and Progressions allows easy extraction ability to not too far locations.


So, I await the critique... which I am sure I messed some things up. Hopefully not alot...


----------



## Elric (Sep 15, 2008)

You don't need to increase your skill cap to buy 4 more ranks in Concentration: PL 11 already has a cap of 16 skill ranks (the PL+5 cap is on ranks, not total bonus).



> 3 - Biggest Change, Paralyzing Strike. Increased original Strike 11 to include a Paralyzing Linked power. Meets all requirements of linked power, with range, duration, action, power level, by adding a flaw in the linked effect requiring SIGHT from foe to work. Think of it as Cosmic Strike, with energized surge of cosmic energy that blinds the foe with paralyzing effect. I also added +1 to Partial Penetrating to result in Partial Penetrating 4. Question is, the Power Feats were originally designed for the Strike Power, but would I be able to move some over to be power feats for the Paraylzing Power instead? Such as Knockback5? My thinking was that the attack would possibly hit. Targets have 2 saves. Strike Save and Paralyzing Save. They fail the strike, they take the dmg. They fail the Paralyzing save, they are then subject to the Knockback from the power and the paralyze. Or am I totally messing things up by using Power Feats on this?




Sight-Dependent Paralyze seems strange to me.  I think Nauseate (Flaw: Sight-Dependent), or Alt Save: Fort on Paralyze with a Nauseate-type descriptor would make more sense.  Of course, since it's described as a blinding effect Dazzle (Flaw: Touch) would make _even more _sense.  Technically I believe with linked powers you should buy the power feats for them separately; essentially the linking is the last step.  So you're going to want 1 Accurate PF on the Paralyze, at least.


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## Victim (Sep 15, 2008)

Note that with Sense Dependent, there would be 3 saves: the normal damage, a Ref save to close one's eyes in time or something, and then if that fails, then the save for the Paralyze.


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## DM_Matt (Sep 15, 2008)

Yeah, I don't really think Sight-Dependent Paralyze makes sense, especially linked to  a not sight-dependent strike attack.  Otherwise its fine.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 15, 2008)

Yeah, the linked power option was something I wanted to grasp and understand.  Yet, linking powers thematically to Cosmic powers is tougher than I had imagined.  Dazzle is an option, and one I thought of using, but, I think I didn't go that route due to the flaws needed, and other mathematical formulas needed to complete it appropriately.  

Also, I agree as well, with the buying of the Power Feats separately for each power.  So, with whichever linked power I do manage to add to the strike, I would apply the Knockback Power Feat to that Linked Power, and NOT to Strike.  I think it would be a little more thematic, having a strike, that should the foe fail the second save for that linked power, they would REALLY suffer from the added effect.

So, for what I read, everything else seems fine, just this last power that needs to be ironed out.  I have Dazzle and Nauseate as the two options to consider using.  I will work on those two options, and get back to you with that last strike power.  Thanks!


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 15, 2008)

Ok, here's my attempt to fix that strike power with sufficient Linked Power.  Drain option, with limit to only toughness saves.  Works great for teamworking, but not much else.  Power Feats in BLUE are applied to the Draining Power and the white Power Feats are applied to strictly Strike Power.  Also, with the leaving of 4pp on this array, I have room to increase the power to PL 12 limit when needed, as well as the addition of Variable Descriptor Power Feat, once a few missions go through for him to work on it.

Draining Cosmic Strike 11 (2/rank)
Effect: Attack (+11)
Range: Touch
Action: Standard
Duration: Instant
Extras: Partial Penetrating [+4] / None
Flaws: None / Limited to Toughness Saves
Power Feats: Incurable, Affect Insubstantial x2, Accuracy / Accuracy, Incurable, Reversible, Slow Fade, Knockback x4
Total Cost: (19pp +19pp=38/42pp)


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## Victim (Sep 17, 2008)

Let's work out some of our plan.  I actually think that going as tourists is better than being investors - it frees us in many ways from the expectation of competence and seems like it'd justify a lack of focus.  If investors are wandering around, then it's sort of weird.  If tourists are wandering around, then it means they're dumb@ss Americans - the characters can look around for Markum in all kinds of places while "experiencing local color."  Our language skills with the gadgets might be too universally good for tourists though - one might expect some people to have language skills, but not everyone.


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## DM_Matt (Sep 18, 2008)

Victim said:


> Let's work out some of our plan...




Yup.  You should.


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## Victim (Sep 18, 2008)

Unfortunately, I'm still not seeing a good way of finding Markum, short of Optic performing some extended searches to look for Grue DNA.  I mean, he has some Grue powers, right?  So we have to find a guy with no set appearance, no sort of physical evidence/money things to trace back AND without attracting attention to either of us.  Maybe it's because I don't have massive amounts of Gather Info (as some of our characters do), but that seems pretty much impossible without having a special sense to detect the guy.  Or some prearranged contact signal.

Do we have some Inventor power for making a gadget to speed up the search?

Using postcog on some of his stuff (from breaking into his house.  )is an option, but that seems a lot more likely to provide information about some past activity than where he is now.  Especially since he changes cover IDs a lot, apparently.

Let's say we go as tourists.  Should we be splitting up to cover more ground (but possibly uselessly, and more risk), staying mostly together (sort of odd for a group of this size composition?), making up some tour group so there's a sort of obvious reason to be together (a little too overt?  Most groups have more of plan/itinerary than we probably want. Also, stupid looking).  I'd have to go for staying mostly together.


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## G. Skylark (Sep 19, 2008)

Seems that Markum keeps contact with the CIA and the US Embassy.  Maybe we can use them to set up a meeting.  Or we can spy on them somehow and watch for when Markum makes contact.  Otherwise, we're just wandering around the city waiting for Markum to contact us on his initiative (which for all we know may be in his interests too).  Although I bet an epic-level Gather Info check would get us some clues to find him.

As for splitting the party, is there any particular reason to?  Other than maybe having a stealthy guy hide to try and get the drop on any hostiles we meet.

Clearly, we need Batman.


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## Victim (Sep 19, 2008)

I was thinking that splitting into a few pairs would be more inconspicious than staying in 1 large group.  Other than that, I don't see any significant advantages.

Watching the embassy is an option - but presumeably that'd bring us to the attention of both the US intel contingent there, and the Chinese people watching it.  Markum has the benefit of his Grue powers to avoid making a discernable pattern that connects to his other operations.  That trick is just so handy for a spy.


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## Victim (Sep 23, 2008)

Without Accurate, Skylark wouldn't be able to port to the stadium unless she'd been there alot or had video feed.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 23, 2008)

Wren can get us there...


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## DM_Matt (Sep 23, 2008)

GM BOT CODE LOG:
>get Enjoyment_Level
>if Enjoyment_Level < .5
>   unload AI_Style "JJ Abrams"
>   set AI_Style "Michael Bay"


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## Victim (Sep 23, 2008)

Heh.  I've been entertained by both.

I have to say that moving to a Michael Bay style isn't exactly good for us though.  In his movies, car chases and other crazy stuff in urban areas tend to feel like people are actually getting hurt.  Usually, pedestrians and other drivers often behave with some prenatural awareness that allow them to safely dodge when somebody takes a car onto the sidewalk or something.  Personally, I have doubts about my ability to avoid danger in those sorts of circumstances.

I wonder if any of the PCs will be affected by the rage spores.  That could be hilarious.


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## Victim (Sep 23, 2008)

Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of the characters don't mesh well with secret agent sort of activities.  We have super star/super heroes and people with generally loud powers - we don't do subtle well.  

And, not to offend anyone, but some characters with the skills aren't matched to players interested in those sorts of things.  A character who is supposed to sneaky and deceitful will often not be so unless the player also thinks like that.  

Sure, the player is separate from the characters, and having a high Bluff can make up for a lack of player social skills.  But having a high skill bonus isn't everything.  It's like in a fight - the player's tactics, power use, target selection, etc have a big impact even in the actual bonuses being are the character's.  Knowing the right lie to tell or the right disguise to assume can be worth a lot of bonus.


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## Victim (Sep 24, 2008)

Okay, I'm thinking of ways to deal with those guys without blowing them up.  

A takedown (presumeably with headshots) before put they put their thumb on the deadman trigger might work.  Star generally isn't willing to use her powers directly against normal people without some powerful emotional (as opposed to tactical) impetus.  And Apollo doesn't have multitarget attacks without stunting.  EDIT:  Also, a sophistated suicide vest designed to go against superheroes will probably explode at unconsciousness.  These people seem to have some ordinary gear, and some super-tech stuff.

Optic might be able to use his power to block the arming or detonation signals.  But he can only do one at a time normally (and I hestitate to have someone being NPC'd at the moment power stunt)

Talking down suicide bombers seems problematic (even without any language issues).  Some people do have lots of social skills and CHA, but it still seems like a big stretch.  

Any other thoughts on solutions that we can pull off within the next few rounds?  I'd rather not act with undo haste in this situation...

------------------------------

I'd prefer to remove them from the blimp for doing anything to them.  We probably want that equipment intact.  First of all, exploding those tanks could spread the spores, making the problem rather widespread.  Also, there are presumeably hostages on board - apparently, the crews for those blimps can be pretty big.  We'll also want the gadgets as evidence, back tracking them to the makers, post cog readings, etc.  

So I was thinking of blowing out the floor of main compartment, to the drop the 3 guys out of the blimp.  Skylark can create an antigravity bubble to catch them and also prevent the pieces from falling on people.

With the presumed terrorists held in mid air, self detonation would probably just kill them, I hope.  And if they can't take anyone else with them, they might be less likely to push the button too?  Hopefully,  our flyers should still be able to back into the blimp and start turning stuff off, saving people, and such.

Even if the blimp is only a few thousand feet up, that should still us at least 1 full round to respond to any falling thing in case of emergency, right?  Maybe more with air resistance or something near the high end of that altitude ranger.


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## G. Skylark (Sep 25, 2008)

I submit that containing the blimp and stopping it from spreading spores is the highest priority.  Knocking the blimp out of the sky might still spread the spores around, just not as widely as otherwise.  This might be one of the reasons the pilots are wearing bombs.

It might be possible to simultaneously (or at least in quick succession) to shut down the spore-flow and remove the pilots (or their bombs) from the blimp.  Telekinesis might be able to accomplish the former.  Not sure how feasible it is for Star and Skylark to get the three pilots away from the blimp before one of them self-detonates.

Thinking on it some more, it's probably best to take out the pilots first.  Shutting down the spore mechanism might alert them.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 25, 2008)

IN that case, if the blimp is the priority, then Wren might be the best to get into the blimp, remove the suicide bombers by teleporting them out, and deal with the consequences, should they detonate.  He will place himself over the nearest large body of water, so that they would fall into the water with those bombs.  Should Wren die, then so be it.  Just find his ring!  (Resurrect, if ring is found)

I will await Skylark's report, on what they suggest.  If they deem it too problematic to safely deal with the blimp, then Wren will do his next rounds' action to get them out... one way or another...


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## kirinke (Sep 25, 2008)

Maybe freezing them in place? Both Hope and Wren have snare, they could easily encase the bad-guys in a personalized block of something. That way, they can't move. Can't move, can't set things off.


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## Victim (Sep 25, 2008)

Cutting out the floor from underneath the men also gets them out of the blimp.  

Skylark is what, Flight 6?  That should run down the blimp in a round even without shutting down its engine.  So we could be implementing whatever next round.  Wren can also get there quickly with Teleport, but 'porting the guys out would require the Attack extra on Teleport, so he'd have to power stunt AGAIN.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 25, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Maybe freezing them in place? Both Hope and Wren have snare, they could easily encase the bad-guys in a personalized block of something. That way, they can't move. Can't move, can't set things off.




That all is dependent on HOW those bombs are activated.  We assume they are hand triggers, or something like that.  What if they are thought activated, or something else?  I think Porting those guys out might be our safest option.



			
				skylark said:
			
		

> Wren can also get there quickly with Teleport, but 'porting the guys out would require the Attack extra on Teleport, so he'd have to power stunt AGAIN.




Yeah, and I have no problem with that.  With this Array, it's the way his ring was built.  To be able to modify a few times when needed.  It's a small price to pay for trying to stop this thing from blowing up.


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## Elric (Sep 25, 2008)

Fangor, you should have Wren Power Stunt a much bigger Area Snare effect.  Lower rank Snare effect, but way more Progression- increase Area feats.  I don't think Matt will have a problem with a super-huge Snare used for crowd control (as opposed to, say similar tactics used against villains).  

Think Snare 8 (Extra: Area- Shapeable) with 10 ranks of the Progression power feat.


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## Victim (Sep 25, 2008)

Ouch.

I was actually sort of thinking that Wren would be able to explain his teleport plan before Star went again and completed her attack.  Oops.  Oh well.

EDIT: If the bombs went off because the men left the blimp, then teleporting them out wouldn't have been any better anyway.


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## DM_Matt (Sep 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> Ouch.
> 
> I was actually sort of thinking that Wren would be able to explain his teleport plan before Star went again and completed her attack.  Oops.  Oh well.
> 
> EDIT: If the bombs went off because the men left the blimp, then teleporting them out wouldn't have been any better anyway.




Ya know, you folks DO know someone with a perception combustion power who is likely to associate with suicide bombers...


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 25, 2008)

Mystery Super....?  Or that Hiroshima guy...


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## Victim (Sep 25, 2008)

Murder Mouse does that.



> "...Coordinated Spontaneous Combustion attacks struck Tel Aviv elementary schools today, killing 48...Farfour the Murder Mouse has claimed responsibility for the attacks..."




That's why Star was trying so hard to nail in the last fight; she didn't want to get burned by his attacks.

But Hiroshima Shadow could also still be alive.  I'm not sure that exploding, poisoning, and then nuking would kill someone made of hard radiation whose origin includes an atomic blast.


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## G. Skylark (Sep 25, 2008)

It occurs to me that lifting Apollo and Star out of the water probably just leaves all three of us open to Murder Mouse sniping us.  Would it be feasible or wise for Skylark to move, grab Star, stay underwater (and therefore out of perception for an above-ground sniper), spend a hero point to move and grab Apollo, then try to run?  Problem being that those two villains in the water will probably get some shots in.

In the alternative, should I try to quickly defeat manta boy and shark man?  I don't like those odds.

Maybe it's best to pull them both out, then burn some extra effort on my force field to help cover them.  Then book it to cover.


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## Victim (Sep 25, 2008)

Since Gravity Control is an area, wouldn't you just lift Apollo, Star, and all the water around them, instead of pulling them out of the water?  

You might be able to find something that does double duty.  Setting up the Trip/Knockback power in mid air could pull everyone out of the water, removing the terrain advantage from the aquatic attackers.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 25, 2008)

Yeah, had this been closer, like less than 600 feet, from where the stadium is situated, I could possibly teleport them out of danger, yet I would have to know where they are.  Until I know where they are, I can't do much.  I didn't want to leave Hope alone against the mob, so I have to return... unless something changes.

So, since I am now on the boardwalk, I will await my turn to see if Star and Apollo are present.  If so, then I can get them out of here.  If not, then plan B, subsection x, with option 3 and 4.... (Yeah, plans suck)


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## G. Skylark (Sep 26, 2008)

I guess my operating assumptions are as follows: Skylark can use area-Gravity Control to lift Star and Apollo out of the water, and make them weightless; she can then use a move action (or two, using a hero point) to grab them and fly us all to cover.  I should ask the GM if these are proper uses of actions.

If a ton of water is also lifted in the process, it might not matter... unless the villains in the water are also lifted into the air, and within striking distance of Skylark.  If that's the case, it might be wiser to just use Telekinesis on Star, get her to cover, then go back for Apollo.  Or hey, let Hope or Wren save one of them.


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## kirinke (Sep 26, 2008)

How about Hope snatching Apollo and Star, while Skylark covers all three until they get to safety?


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## Elric (Sep 26, 2008)

I do not think Hope can reach the river in a turn of movement, as she only have Flight 3 and I think Matt has indicated that the blimp is over a half mile from us (and Hope only goes 2000 feet with all-out movement).  So Wren should just teleport her to the boardwalk as well; from there she can probably reach where Star/Apollo are with a move action and will still have a standard action remaining.

Also, with one standard action Hope will only be able to pick up one of Apollo/Star, and it isn't even clear if Air Control can be used to pick up someone who is underwater at all.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 26, 2008)

Wren edited new post to include HOPE in the Teleport.  Have fun!


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## Victim (Sep 26, 2008)

Elric said:


> Also, with one standard action Hope will only be able to pick up one of Apollo/Star, and it isn't even clear if Air Control can be used to pick up someone who is underwater at all.




Yeah.  Air Control comes with Perception for 2 pp/rank because there are limits to just controlling air.  Otherwise, it would just be Power Loss - if that.


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## Elric (Sep 27, 2008)

The current actions are a huge waste of Extra Effort uses to get Star/Apollo out of the water.  Skylark, not Hope, should be picking up Star/Apollo as Skylark can actually use Telekinesis and Gravity Control without Extra Effort.

If Hope does insist on unwisely doing it all herself (not the first time...), there's no reason for Skylark to use Extra Effort extend her force field over Hope, who's pretty well protected already.  It would probably be better to just Blast one of the villains.


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## kirinke (Sep 27, 2008)

So noted, I changed my post to reflect the change of actions. (And I also made sure that Hope acknowledged that she couldn't do it.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 28, 2008)

Ok, Wren will use his full round action to grant 4 of you with the +4 bonus to all attack rolls, saving throws, and checks for your following round.  Make sure they count, as this allows those 4 to bring these rolls ABOVE the PL limit.  Only 1 round, so make them count, please.

The power will go to the ones that would best make use of it.  With only being able to choose 4 people, who's best to give this to?

Candidates:
Star - KO, staggered, stunned, another 2 bruises
Apollo - OK?
Nitro - injury, bruise, stunned, energy damage - has MOST need of it!
Optic - injury/bruise
 Skylark - bruised
Hope - OK?

I would think Nitro would need it, to shake off any effects, or attack.  Star is KO'd, and not sure how she would make use of it anyways.  Leaves Hope, Skylark, Optic and Apollo.  So, who wants it?


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## Victim (Sep 28, 2008)

Apollo was double bruised and then has a Lasting Stun from Devil Ray's taser.  I didn't see if he saved against it this round.  If not, then the save bonus from Inspire might help him out.

I think Star went from Stunned to KO, so doesn't that skip Staggered?

IIRC, most of Skylark's good attacks are area, but she can still use the save boost.


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## kirinke (Sep 28, 2008)

Victim said:


> Apollo was double bruised and then has a Lasting Stun from Devil Ray's taser.  I didn't see if he saved against it this round.  If not, then the save bonus from Inspire might help him out.
> 
> I think Star went from Stunned to KO, so doesn't that skip Staggered?
> 
> IIRC, most of Skylark's good attacks are area, but she can still use the save boost.




Like I said in IC, Hope's attacks are fairly useless against Stratos, she'd be well aware of it, so logically, she'd probably concentrate on either A: deflecting his attacks or B: going after the whale, the shark or Devil Ray.


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## Victim (Sep 28, 2008)

If there's a partner who will attack Stratos with damaging, countering his Force Field might be another option.  And there's also Instant Countering if you want to give both a shot.  Probably not a good deal unless Stratos is using some sort of area.

But dropping lightning attacks into the water sounds like fun.


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## kirinke (Sep 28, 2008)

Victim said:


> If there's a partner who will attack Stratos with damaging, countering his Force Field might be another option.  And there's also Instant Countering if you want to give both a shot.  Probably not a good deal unless Stratos is using some sort of area.
> 
> But dropping lightning attacks into the water sounds like fun.




Didn't you know that was the easy way to fry fish?


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## Elric (Sep 28, 2008)

Victim said:


> I think Star went from Stunned to KO, so doesn't that skip Staggered?




Matt is using cumulative damage, iirc, so each damage condition also inflicts all of the damage conditions below it.


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## Victim (Sep 28, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Didn't you know that was the easy way to fry fish?




Yeah.  In fact, I'm pretty sure that's why you didn't use the lightning attack last round.  Unless Hope doesn't mind TKing.



> but she cannot fire her lightning while Star and Apollo are in the water,


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## Elric (Sep 28, 2008)

Matt, what's the initiative order now?  Is it unchanged from:

Nitro 19
Blimp Crew 17
Apollo 13 (heh)
Optic 12
Star 9
Hope 8
Fangor 8
Crowd 7
Skylark 4

It could have changed because of Wren teleporting Nitro/Optic/Hope.  

Did you assume that Wren teleporting everyone happened before this round began?  In that case, Wren has an action at the end of this round to use and Inspire will be active for Nitro next round (in which case I'll clearly want to shake off the stun to take advantage of it).


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## kirinke (Sep 29, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah.  In fact, I'm pretty sure that's why you didn't use the lightning attack last round.  Unless Hope doesn't mind TKing.




Yup. She couldn't use that lil attack whilest Apollo and Star were taking an involuntary dip in the river so to speak. She really, really doesn't want a repeat of harming her own team-mates again. Plus, as the others said, her using TK to get both out wouldda been a waste of effort, so she covered Skylark while Sky did the lifting.


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## Victim (Sep 29, 2008)

If Vanifae doesn't post and Apollo recovers from Stunning, how about he shoots Black Star, using Moveby to get out of the way?  He throws hard light too, and it seems like he'd be fine showing it off in some way.


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## DM_Matt (Sep 29, 2008)

Elric said:


> Matt, what's the initiative order now?  Is it unchanged from:
> 
> Nitro 19
> Blimp Crew 17
> ...




Nitro and Optic are now after Wren.


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## Victim (Oct 2, 2008)

Well.  THAT was unexpected.  And it looks interesting.  

Since Stratos seems to be underwater, he doesn't seem like a particularly good target at the moment.  On the other hand, if gravity control keeps him underwater, then there might not be much need to launch follow up attacks.


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## Elric (Oct 3, 2008)

Matt- as Nitro is currently after Star, it would be helpful to me if the round got resolved through Star's action before I posted, as I don't know if Blackstar will still be up when my turn comes around (he's likely facing 17 damage and is already staggered with 2 bruises!).

Fangor- a few points.  I can't tell exactly what you were getting at in your most recent post, so these might not all be relevant.

1) To use Teleport and Healing (as both are in the array) in a round, the array has to start on Healing.  Since the most recent array power you used was Teleport, it seems perfectly reasonable that the array would still be set there, since you haven't declared otherwise.  If the array starts on something besides Teleport, then using Teleport followed by Healing won't work, hero point or not.

Just thought I'd mention the general issue- even if you're not using an array in a round, where you set it can matter the next round.

2) You do not have to spend a hero point to take two standard actions in a round.  Indeed, spending hero points directly doesn't give you extra actions.  You use Extra Effort, which is limited to once a round, to Surge and then a round later you spend a hero point to buy off the fatigue.  Especially for a ranged attacker fatigue isn't that big of a deal and being fatigued with 1 HP is much better than not fatigued with 0 HP.

3) Your Teleport power is really, really good.  Between Affects Others, Area, and Selective, plus the Progression power feats, you should be able to teleport Wren/Optic somewhere as just a move action.  So pulling off this maneuver shouldn't require Extra Effort at all, if I'm reading correctly (since your Healing is a standard action).


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## Victim (Oct 3, 2008)

Nitro should throw enemies into Hiroshima Shadow, so they'll take the normal impact damage from being thrown around (after they fly through him) and take some deadly rads.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Oct 3, 2008)

Elric said:


> Fangor- a few points. I can't tell exactly what you were getting at in your most recent post, so these might not all be relevant.
> 
> 1) To use Teleport and Healing (as both are in the array) in a round, the array has to start on Healing. Since the most recent array power you used was Teleport, it seems perfectly reasonable that the array would still be set there, since you haven't declared otherwise. If the array starts on something besides Teleport, then using Teleport followed by Healing won't work, hero point or not.




Ah, so THAT'S how it works.  Good to know, and thanks for clearing that up.  Yes, you are correct, as I have not switched off that Teleport from the previous rounds' use.  So, he teleports, removes Optic from danger, and Heals him.



Elric said:


> Just thought I'd mention the general issue- even if you're not using an array in a round, where you set it can matter the next round.
> 
> 2) You do not have to spend a hero point to take two standard actions in a round. Indeed, spending hero points directly doesn't give you extra actions. You use Extra Effort, which is limited to once a round, to Surge and then a round later you spend a hero point to buy off the fatigue. Especially for a ranged attacker fatigue isn't that big of a deal and being fatigued with 1 HP is much better than not fatigued with 0 HP.




So, Teleport, then Extra Effort to use the Healing power of the array.  Got it.  Thanks again.  



Elric said:


> 3) Your Teleport power is really, really good. Between Affects Others, Area, and Selective, plus the Progression power feats, you should be able to teleport Wren/Optic somewhere as just a move action. So pulling off this maneuver shouldn't require Extra Effort at all, if I'm reading correctly (since your Healing is a standard action).




Yeah, I like the way it shaped up, and am glad it did not include the Attack extra.  I wanted this to be a defensive thing, and not offensive.  Hence, keeping it to where it doesn't affect the enemies without some other form of Extra Effort.  

Teleport as move action, then Heal as Standard Action.  Now I see, as I thought it was not able to switch between powers in a round.  Now I see the line that says you can switch once per round as Free Action.  I will keep that in mind.  Man am I glad I picked this group to play with, as you keep me in line pretty well.  THANKS!!!


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## Elric (Oct 3, 2008)

Skylark said:
			
		

> "Wicked shooting!" Skylark is now a fan of Apollo. She hardly expected to get Stratos so swiftly, and feels relieved but strangely embarrassed about piledriving him like a chump. "Erm, 'ope the blighter doesn't drown...."
> 
> "Ah, I'm gonna keep 'im underwater for a tick. See whot I can do about Mr. and Mrs. Fish 'n Chips down there, too. Stay clear of the water, mates!"
> 
> (Skylark will expand the Gravity Control effect around Stratos to Area 11, in an attempt to catch Devil Ray or Man-Shark in the radius around Stratos. Even if they aren't in range, the effect is Subtle so maybe they'll wander into it if they try to rescue Stratos. Skylark will not expand the radius to include any allies).




Using extras is not optional.  In particular, while you can always use a power at a lower rank than your full number of ranks (unless you have the full power drawback), an Area effect used at its maximum number of ranks takes up its full area of effect.  So the only way Skylark could decrease the size of the area at all is to decrease the rank of the effect.

The Progression power feat can be used to allow you to decrease an area effect's size without lowering the rank, and you have some pp on gravity control "left over", so you can potentially give yourself some more flexibility here later.


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## G. Skylark (Oct 4, 2008)

Aha.  Being unable to constrain the size of Gravity Control without dropping the rank could be a major pain.  I might invest in that power feat next time I get a power point.  Cheaper than getting the Selective extra, which would also be nice.

On the other hand, in this specific instance I wonder if Stratos could move under the encumbrance of, say, Gravity Control 6.  I'd rather not find out.


----------



## Victim (Oct 4, 2008)

No one was in the area before; so there shouldn't be much need to reduce it.

And I don't think encumberance imposed by Gravity Control is the only thing to worry about.  Someone with a Flight power might attempt to counter the increased gravity with upwards thrust or something; no need to make the power check easier for them.

On the other hand, if Stratos has some sort of wind based flight, it might be screwed underwater.


----------



## Elric (Oct 4, 2008)

G. Skylark said:


> (Skylark will maintain the Gravity Control effect around Stratos at Area 11, in an attempt to catch Devil Ray or Man-Shark in the radius around Stratos.  Even if they aren't in range, the effect is Subtle so maybe they'll wander into it if they try to rescue Stratos. If this will catch allies in the radius of the effect, Skylark will switch over to single-target Telekinesis on the array to keep Stratos down.  And since she's using the Gravity Control array for attacking, Skylark should probably physically hold up Star, if she isn't flying yet.  Sorry Star.).




The rules are fairly unclear about whether Skylark can simply use Gravity Control a second time on a new area this round.  In which case you don't have to drop Star at all.  Steve's answer here would indicate that's the case, since Telekinesis and Gravity Control are based on the same base Move Object effect.

Victim- I don't think Nitro throwing people into Hiroshima Shadow will work too well because Nitro has a terrible ranged attack bonus.  If HS tries to engage Nitro in melee, maybe hitting HS in melee with a grappled opponent could work.  Otherwise, it's probably not worth letting Blackstar out of the grapple to get a small chance for extra damage by hitting HS on a throw.


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## Victim (Oct 4, 2008)

Oh yeah, I forgot that Nitro can't throw things.   

Using people as melee weapons is often good, especially if auras are involved.  It might be better to use the next foe Nitro grabs though; Black Star might be too beat up survive clubbing other members of the Crime League.

And where the heck are Orion (member of the Crime League + mundane weapons expert/super normal type -> unknown sniper) and Murder Mouse hiding?  Especially considering that Optic and Apollo should be pretty good at spotting.

Also, while I'm not up on the lastest FC stuff, doesn't the Crime League have more people?  I thought they gained even more people like the Freedom League expanded too (like Black Star).  An optimistic take on the situation would be that not everyone liked this plan, so only part of the league is involved.  The others could also be doing something more subtle at another location while these guys act as a violent diversion.

Or, finally, Medea is doing something with illusions and/or mind powers (Optic has True Sight BS so it probably takes more than a normal illusion/invis), to hide the enemy long range team and the other people.  So anyone breaking off or zooming around to look for the sniping/perception attackers might find more than they expected!  This is pretty much what they did with the blimp too.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 4, 2008)

Victim said:


> Oh yeah, I forgot that Nitro can't throw things.
> 
> Using people as melee weapons is often good, especially if auras are involved.  It might be better to use the next foe Nitro grabs though; Black Star might be too beat up survive clubbing other members of the Crime League.
> 
> ...




A lot of good points there.  As to why they can't find the sniper, there are hundreds if not thousands of windows he could be shooting from, not to mention other possible spots.  And there are a lot of flashing lights and bullets flying and other distractions.  The boardwalk is a mini Vegas strip.  

I can move things along, but there are not enough IC posts...

BTW, Victim, I JUST got the ATT msg today.  For some reason it didn't pop up like I was used to them doing.  Hopefully this route works too.


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## Victim (Oct 5, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> BTW, Victim, I JUST got the ATT msg today.  For some reason it didn't pop up like I was used to them doing.  Hopefully this route works too.




No problem.  This looks like it'd be more interesting anyway.



> I can move things along, but there are not enough IC posts...




Well, who are we waiting for?  Jemal hasn't been around in a while - but he's supposed to be back now.  Kirinke's post for the round isn't particularly meaningful.  Vanifae basically asked to be put on autopilot at the beginning of the fight and hasn't posted since.   ???  The people who are posting regularly seem to either posted or requested to see some results first, right?


----------



## Victim (Oct 6, 2008)

How far is it to Freedom Hall?

Hmm, Star seems a little like someone else right now.  "Look at what you've become!"


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## kirinke (Oct 7, 2008)

Victim said:


> How far is it to Freedom Hall?
> 
> Hmm, Star seems a little like someone else right now.  "Look at what you've become!"




Well, if anyone can understand what Star and that spirit conglomoration of Vi is going through right now it's Hope. Plus, ya'll have one up on her. She never was possessed.


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## Victim (Oct 8, 2008)

Whose turn is it?  Do I need a combat action up?


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## Elric (Oct 8, 2008)

It's Nitro's turn in the current round, with Optic stunned (so he doesn't get an action), then the villains.


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## Victim (Oct 8, 2008)

Okay, I thought we were waiting for some results.


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## Jemal (Oct 8, 2008)

yes, I am back.  been working OT every day and trying to catch up on the backlog of posts before I post anything new.  Fortunately Optic's stunned right now *L* so I've got till next round I guess.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 10, 2008)

Jemal said:


> yes, I am back.  been working OT every day and trying to catch up on the backlog of posts before I post anything new.  Fortunately Optic's stunned right now *L* so I've got till next round I guess.




Welcome back!


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## Victim (Oct 14, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> No.  Both are under water.  Megalodon jumps in and out, but Devil Ray never leaves.  His guns are designed specifically to hit above-water targets from in the water (The electrified parts are shielded in a case that breaks off once the pressure changes to indicate not being under water)




Hmm.  I'd use Trigger to hit someone popping in and out.  But Devil Ray doesn't do that.  And I can't see Megs popping up again right now since he already has a victim to chew on.  

So I need to change my action a bit.  Attacking HS seems out, since there's already a homing attack in the pipe against him.  On the other hand, I guess Trigger would still work since Stratos should be emerging without gravity control keeping him down.

But leaves Skylark in a tight spot.  Star can't really head underwater and fight since she's Staggered.

I guess Trigger might still be the way to go.  Maybe Nitro doesn't mind getting wet?  Thoughts?


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## Elric (Oct 14, 2008)

Victim said:


> I guess Trigger might still be the way to go.  Maybe Nitro doesn't mind getting wet?  Thoughts?




Yeah, I was thinking about having Nitro jump in after Skylark, since it's right about his action now.  I have to look up the penalties for fighting underwater and I'm not sure how far under Megalodon is; is it feasible to jump straight in and try to wrestle Skylark free?


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## Victim (Oct 14, 2008)

Okay, I've edited Star's action since she can't see either of the aquatic villains.

Shame we can't pull them into our turf instead of engaging them in the water.  Eh, getting Skylark out is more of a priority.

Is Skylark out of HP?  It'd be nice if she could unstun herself, and then use Gravity Control to haul them into the air.


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## kirinke (Oct 14, 2008)

Wait a second.... Hope can create objects right? What about her creating a bubble of air around her head or those with the powers that can affect the shark and devil ray? It'll be like a mini rebreather because the container is 'air' so nothing is wasted. Good for maybe three or so rounds?


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## Fangor the Fierce (Oct 14, 2008)

I was also thinking of creating objects, full sized net, and simply having Nitro and myself Haul in the whole area...

EDIT - Tethered, Movable, etc.... I have the power, what do you guys/gals think?


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## kirinke (Oct 14, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> I was also thinking of creating objects, full sized net, and simply having Nitro and myself Haul in the whole area...
> 
> EDIT - Tethered, Movable, etc.... I have the power, what do you guys/gals think?




That might work and if you need help, Hope does have Enhanced Strength 22 Super-Stregth 2.


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## Victim (Oct 16, 2008)

I think Optic is still staggered, since Wren's healing would only remove the disabled condition.  

Most of the enemies aren't really visible outside - Stratos, Devil Ray, and Megalodon are underwater.  Shadow just got blasted into the building.  Most of the mook guys have run inside the casinos and hotels to cause havoc.  And Murder Mouse and Orion are cowards attacking from hiding.  It'd be nice if Optic could spot one of those two.

And with Blast 10, shouldn't the Toughness DC be 25, not 29?

-------------------------------------

Who is currently unaccounted for in the Crime League?  We have the sniper, who I'm assuming to be Orion.  Stratos, Blackstar, Shadow, Devil Ray, and Megalodon are all here.  Medea, Simian, and Maestro are at the naval base.  That leaves Wild Card running around someplace.  Anyone else missing?

As far as the terrorist group goes, Murder Mouse is somewhere around our position - unless he can shoot through cameras, or something.  Battle Bunny is attacking the Freedom League.  Killer Bee = ?  It's not really a good day for him to show his face, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't do it.


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## Victim (Oct 17, 2008)

I think dealing with the skinhead thugs might be the best move.  We don't want those guys to spread out, or hunker down in some area of the hotel with hostages, so picking them up fast right now seems like a good idea.  It looks like our characters are going to have a busy day, and thus don't have time for a lengthy bug hunt.


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## kirinke (Oct 17, 2008)

Going after the skinheads it is. Looks like Hope will be using Walls of Air to make life difficult for them.

Heh. I wonder if Stratos or Medea will clue in on the fact that Saint might be their missing/presumably dead daughter.


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## Jemal (Oct 19, 2008)

Btw, refresh my memory (Optic's might be 'photographic' but mine sucks) : Whos' Duncan Summers again?


----------



## DM_Matt (Oct 19, 2008)

Jemal said:


> Btw, refresh my memory (Optic's might be 'photographic' but mine sucks) : Whos' Duncan Summers again?




The headmaster of the prestigious Claremont Academy.  It is known in the superhero community, and by the Trust database, that it is a school for kids with powers.  The trust database also indicate that the feds believe him to be a retired super of some kind, but not who.  

Basically, in the FCU, he's Professor X crossed with the elderly Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond.


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## Elric (Oct 19, 2008)

Now that Nitro has Megalodon at the surface and grappled, does someone want to blast him (with Power Attack, if applicable)?  Hopefully he doesn't have Grappling Finesse, so his defense should be quite a bit lower.

Also, for people with Force Fields (i.e., Skylark), note that Steve has said that if you buy off a stun as a reaction with the Recovery function of a hero point, you don't have to roll a concentration check to keep FF up.  So you might want to consider a standing order to buy off stuns immediately to avoid incidents like what just occured.


----------



## Victim (Oct 19, 2008)

Wasn't Skylark dying at some point?  I thought I saw that in the update, but now it doesn't seem to be there.  I guess Megs couldn't chow down on our gravity controller because of Nitro's grab?


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## Elric (Oct 19, 2008)

Victim said:


> Wasn't Skylark dying at some point?  I thought I saw that in the update, but now it doesn't seem to be there.  I guess Megs couldn't chow down on our gravity controller because of Nitro's grab?




Right, Matt edited the original post to reflect that.  I believe instead Megs tried to win a grapple check against Nitro and lost, but Matt didn't add that in to the post in his update.


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## kirinke (Oct 20, 2008)

Alright, any ideas on what Hope should do to help with the hostage crisis?

At a guess, Hope could freeze Orion's gun and knife hand with the create Ice or Air power, so he couldn't hurt the little girl. Wren could do this as well with his own create object power.

Then, either Hope or Wren could box in the remaining civilian shields, preventing them from doing anything.


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## Elric (Oct 20, 2008)

kirinke said:


> At a guess, Hope could freeze Orion's gun and knife hand with the create Ice or Air power, so he couldn't hurt the little girl. Wren could do this as well with his own create object power.




The power you are looking for is called 'Snare'.  Create Object will not do the trick.

Shooting at Orion and hopefully blasting him across the room would be my preferred version.  However, looking at your character sheet, it seems like you don't have Precise Shot (I'm surprised; every ranged attacker should have this.  Take it the next chance you get), which means that you'd certainly have at least a -4 penalty shooting at him while he's got a human shield.  

If you can shoot at him effectively, he's unlikely to waste time killing the hostages; he'll probably just fight you.


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## Victim (Oct 20, 2008)

The child is probably the Animus Serpent queen, hence the unusual behavior of the spore affected individuals while she's threatened.  I'd guess that not only is Orion holding a knife to her throat, he's also giving orders for the afflicted persons.



> The bad guys could have harvested spores for this, and may have a queen on their side. She'll be humanoid, but appearance and powers vary widely since they are all hybridized with their hosts' DNA.




If the child is the queen, she might not be entirely innocent (sorta, given that she didn't chose to born like that) or helpless.

But Star was KO'd when Optic explained the spores.

----------------------------------------------------

And all these threats at once are going to be rough.  After we deal with this fight, there's still the other stuff.  And with all our bruises/injuries - each one requiring a separate Heal power use - we'll either have to delay our response while people are getting hurt to heal up, or go in beat up.  Hopefully the baddies will have taken some damage or something fighting, so we wouldn't be going in at a huge disadvantage.


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## Elric (Oct 20, 2008)

I didn't remember that stuff at all.  Full quote:

Optic sends this information. This will come in handy quite soon. Meanwhile, he analyzes the spores while waiting for Wren to teleport him. He tells the group "These spores are from a Animus Serpent, a Queen. Aminus Serpents are small parasites that live in the human brain and feed off certain chemicals and brain matter that lead people to unreasoned hostility and violence, and telepathically suggest they act on these things. The queens reproduce by producing spores that enter people's minds and grow...this is just the first step. Eventually these things will take over their victims...and they can spread the infection through bodily fluids...and if two of them produce a child, that child will be a queen. The bad guys could have harvested spores for this, and may have a queen on their side. She'll be humanoid, but appearance and powers vary widely since they are all hybridized with their hosts' DNA. By the way, Devil Ray is Crime League...where there is one, there may be more..."


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## kirinke (Oct 20, 2008)

Elric said:


> The power you are looking for is called 'Snare'.  Create Object will not do the trick.
> 
> Shooting at Orion and hopefully blasting him across the room would be my preferred version.  However, looking at your character sheet, it seems like you don't have Precise Shot (I'm surprised; every ranged attacker should have this.  Take it the next chance you get), which means that you'd certainly have at least a -4 penalty shooting at him while he's got a human shield.
> 
> If you can shoot at him effectively, he's unlikely to waste time killing the hostages; he'll probably just fight you.





I'd say the main reason why Hope hasn't taken the precise shot feat yet, is that she's not had the need for it until recently, most of her work in the past didn't include taking on super-villians on a regular basis, at least not in a combat sense. But yeh, next PP she gets, I'll spend some on precise shot and snare.

How about using a hero point to take a temporary precise shot feat? Would that work?


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## Victim (Oct 20, 2008)

In terms of shooting people, it'd be nice if some people at the top of the round could exploit the stuns Star delivered last round.  I guess that's Apollo and Optic.  If my mental map isn't too far off, then Optic should be able to shoot Stratos since both were outside, while Apollo can fly into the building through the burning holes and laser arrow Shima - and hopefully get an angle that knocks him back outside.


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## Elric (Oct 20, 2008)

kirinke said:


> How about using a hero point to take a temporary precise shot feat? Would that work?




It would work for 1 round (see the Heroic Feat HP function), which isn't worth much here because spending a hero point on Improved Roll would probably be superior.


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## Victim (Oct 20, 2008)

kirinke said:


> I'd say the main reason why Hope hasn't taken the precise shot feat yet, is that she's not had the need for it until recently, most of her work in the past didn't include taking on super-villians on a regular basis, at least not in a combat sense. But yeh, next PP she gets, I'll spend some on precise shot and snare.
> 
> How about using a hero point to take a temporary precise shot feat? Would that work?




The real reason is that we don't have many close up fighters and tend to have target rich environments.  So Hope hasn't yet needed to shoot someone in melee since there were other targets or because one party or the other didn't stay in close quarters due to knockback.

Yes, you can spend an HP to emulate a fight.  You can also just shoot with a penalty and then spend the HP to reroll the attack if you'd miss.


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## Victim (Oct 21, 2008)

> ooc:
> Foresight to see if her plan could work, or what might happen.




Your precog is uncontrolled.


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## kirinke (Oct 21, 2008)

Victim said:


> Your precog is uncontrolled.




I know that, she is attempting to see what will come to pass, given the current situation.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 21, 2008)

kirinke said:


> I know that, she is attempting to see what will come to pass, given the current situation.




Not getting a vision here.


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## Victim (Oct 21, 2008)

kirinke said:


> I know that, she is attempting to see what will come to pass, given the current situation.




Yeah, I understand the idea of precognition.  But you took the uncontrolled flaw - precog visions are things that happen TO you.  They aren't things that you DO.  It's not something under your control to use whenever you want, hence the UN-controlled (and not united nations ).


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## DM_Matt (Oct 21, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah, I understand the idea of precognition.  But you took the uncontrolled flaw - precog visions are things that happen TO you.  They aren't things that you DO.  It's not something under your control to use whenever you want, hence the UN-controlled (and not united nations ).




U.N.-Controlled Precognition would be highly ineffective.  Russia and China would veto anything useful against supervillains   .


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## Victim (Oct 21, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> U.N.-Controlled Precognition would be highly ineffective.  Russia and China would veto anything useful against supervillains   .




Well, yeah.  But wouldn't the general assembly - not dominated by western democracies - be setting the agenda for the precog?  So the US would probably be throwing around most of the vetos.

With luck it'd be useful for detecting alien invasions or some asteriod hit though.  Then there'd be time to form a secret UN taskforce involving the alien technology and/or some sort of super weapon.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 21, 2008)

Victim said:


> Well, yeah.  But wouldn't the general assembly - not dominated by western democracies - be setting the agenda for the precog?  So the US would probably be throwing around most of the vetos.
> 
> With luck it'd be useful for detecting alien invasions or some asteriod hit though.  Then there'd be time to form a secret UN taskforce involving the alien technology and/or some sort of super weapon.




Well, most issues that the Security Council deals with originate there...its not like Congress passing bills and sending them to the President to veto or sign.


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## kirinke (Oct 21, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah, I understand the idea of precognition.  But you took the uncontrolled flaw - precog visions are things that happen TO you.  They aren't things that you DO.  It's not something under your control to use whenever you want, hence the UN-controlled (and not united nations ).




Lol. Basically, she's opening herself up to the visions come what may. Where the uncontrolled part comes in, is she can't control what will happen, what sort of visions if any she'll have. Also, she can have visions at the drop of a hat, so the only thing she can really 'control' is deliberatly seeking one. Whether one will come or not.... Well. That's the fun part of the Uncontrolled flaw.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 21, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Lol. Basically, she's opening herself up to the visions come what may. Where the uncontrolled part comes in, is she can't control what will happen, what sort of visions if any she'll have. Also, she can have visions at the drop of a hat, so the only thing she can really 'control' is deliberatly seeking one. Whether one will come or not.... Well. That's the fun part of the Uncontrolled flaw.




But the point remains that you can't declare that you use the power to figure out if a certain strategy is a good one.


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## kirinke (Oct 22, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> But the point remains that you can't declare that you use the power to figure out if a certain strategy is a good one.




Ahh. Okay. I'll amend it then.


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## Victim (Oct 24, 2008)

Vanifae told me in another thread that he's actually dropping - as opposed to just being absent for a while.

Wasn't Star supposed to be surging for a second attack since Statos was still up?


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## Elric (Oct 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> Vanifae told me in another thread that he's actually dropping - as opposed to just being absent for a while.




Well, there goes Star's replacement.  I guess after this fight he'll disappear to the Nightweaver Trust team


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## Victim (Oct 24, 2008)

Elric said:


> Well, there goes Star's replacement.  I guess after this fight he'll disappear to the Nightweaver Trust team




Or die.  Some DMs I've played with have used exPCs as villains too - but that seems a lot like a time saving move that isn't really necessary in this format.  Plus it would mess up the secret organization thing without some sort of programmed memory wipe.


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## Elric (Oct 24, 2008)

Victim said:


> Or die.




No more deaths of departing PCs for a while.  Viridian's death was painful enough.


----------



## Victim (Oct 24, 2008)

Elric said:


> No more deaths of departing PCs for a while.  Viridian's death was painful enough.




I can get behind that.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Oct 24, 2008)

Ok, question. Willing?  I take that as not resisting, personally.  Reason I ask?  I can Teleport now, and can easily get the hostage away from the enemy.  Is this possible?  Let me know, so I can post accordingly.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 24, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Ok, question. Willing?  I take that as not resisting, personally.  Reason I ask?  I can Teleport now, and can easily get the hostage away from the enemy.  Is this possible?  Let me know, so I can post accordingly.




You'd need to win a grapple check against Orion, subbing your TP rank for your str bonus.  As far as you know, Orion is just a skilled normal, though, so it may not be that hard a check to win.  He also gets a penalty for not having the most secure a grip on her.


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## Victim (Oct 25, 2008)

Well, those attacks on Stratos just did not work out.  Hopefully Skylark (on her action from the last turn) or Apollo can land something to reduce his defense.  

Didn't Stratos just get into supervillainy ~20 years ago?

EDIT: Dang, 3 posts in 20 minutes.


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## kirinke (Oct 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> Well, those attacks on Stratos just did not work out.  Hopefully Skylark (on her action from the last turn) or Apollo can land something to reduce his defense.
> 
> Didn't Stratos just get into supervillainy ~20 years ago?
> 
> EDIT: Dang, 3 posts in 20 minutes.




Yep. Hope was found in that alley when she was around 8 or nine-ish. She's 29 now. Gives you room for that hmmm? Maybe the reason he went nutso is _because_he lost his family. Or one of the leading factors.


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## Victim (Oct 25, 2008)

Where are those Animus Serpents from?  Are they some alien transplant, from the depths of the earth, some jungle?


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## DM_Matt (Oct 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> Where are those Animus Serpents from?  Are they some alien transplant, from the depths of the earth, some jungle?




Though they are found in various wilderness areas, especially in warmer climes, their origin is unknown.  The fact that they can effect humans but not Wren's people might imply that they are native to earth, but it could also be a coincidence or they could be aliens who came long ago and evolved powers specific to humans (the normal way or through the process by which they mix their DNA with their hosts to produce queens).  Or they could be dimensional travelers (i.e. Demons), or a regular ol' exotic earth species, or artificial creations (though they have been around since ancient times, so they would need to have been created by powers rather than tech)...there are many options.


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## Victim (Oct 25, 2008)

Okay.  Optic seemed to know a lot about them (just like he does about everything), so I wasn't sure how much the creatures had been studied or if they were from some specific place that might be worth following up at a later date.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> Okay.  Optic seemed to know a lot about them (just like he does about everything), so I wasn't sure how much the creatures had been studied or if they were from some specific place that might be worth following up at a later date.




Its not so much that he knows it as his suit provides Epic Google Skillz / Superspeed Trust database access.


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## Victim (Oct 26, 2008)

> Star, can you try to knock Stratos towards me?" Nitro asks.
> 
> (OOC: As in, direct her attacks so if he suffers Knockback it's down and towards Nitro. Ideally I'd like to have Nitro take a Charging Standing Jump at Stratos to try to hit him and use Improved Grab, but that requires him to get a little closer, Matt has said. Otherwise I can leap underneath him and probably get close enough to Shockwave him)




No, because Star's attacks aren't hitting this round.


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## Elric (Oct 26, 2008)

Victim said:


> No, because Star's attacks aren't hitting this round.




Nitro has already gone "this round" as well, if you mean what Matt just resolved. 

I think Matt got out of order somehow when he said 
(Since Wren is first to go, I'll adjudicate this)

He resolved Wren's action at the top of the round he just resolved (where Nitro KOd Megalodon).  But Wren is after Star and before Nitro.  So he shouldn't be the next one to go after what Matt just posted.  Or maybe the mistake was somewhere else and Nitro and Optic really are the next two up.  Clarification appreciated

Idea: another pbp I'm in has people posting round #s with their actions, the GM posting what round # it is that he's adjudicated, and the players have taken to posting their initiative counts as well.  If an action said:

Nitro, round 5, Initiative 7 then it would be a lot easier to keep track of these things.  Then if Matt is resolving "round 5" it's easy for him to see who is doing what, and when.  This way people won't get skipped and/or resolved twice incorrectly.

Most of us are already keeping track of our HPs in our posts, which is another thing we should all be doing.


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## Victim (Oct 26, 2008)

Well, even if the action order would give Star another chance to hit before Nitro's action, the attacks against Stratos will be from Homing.  So they're  not coming in on the same attack path that they were fired along initially.  Hence the knockback won't really be in a predictable, controlled direction.

IIRC, there was some delaying going on to use Wren's teleport, so the rolled initatives wouldn't be accurate now.  And getting knocked out might have changed Star's spot too.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 26, 2008)

Victim said:


> Well, even if the action order would give Star another chance to hit before Nitro's action, the attacks against Stratos will be from Homing.  So they're  not coming in on the same attack path that they were fired along initially.  Hence the knockback won't really be in a predictable, controlled direction.
> 
> IIRC, there was some delaying going on to use Wren's teleport, so the rolled initatives wouldn't be accurate now.  And getting knocked out might have changed Star's spot too.




...also delays to wait for Wren to scoop the baddies.  And yes, Star's current situation did change her init (The thing keeping her up at all is a plot device)


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## Victim (Oct 26, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> ...also delays to wait for Wren to scoop the baddies.  And yes, Star's current situation did change her init (The thing keeping her up at all is a plot device)




Yeah, I'm not expecting anything good to happen when it wears off either.


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## Elric (Oct 27, 2008)

G. Skylark said:


> Shake shake shake shake.  Skylark attempts to find cover, and calls back, "Awright Nitro!  Knock the stuffin' out of that tweedy wanker!!"
> 
> (Skylark will ready an action to grab Nitro with telekinesis and drag him to safety if he gets zapped.  If that doesn't happen, she'll use Gravity Blast on top of Stratos' head (indirect), so any knockback will drive him down.  Attack roll, ranged at +8 1d20 8=17 )




You're staggered, so you only get a standard action or move action.  So getting to cover won't really work.  Second, you shouldn't use the Ready maneuver, as that would commit you to not doing anything if Nitro doesn't get nailed, and Delay (which wouldn't do that) doesn't seem worth it.  

This should just say something like "If Nitro has been nailed, TK.  If not, Blast Stratos"

Lastly, your attack bonus with your Gravity Array powers is +10 due to Attack Specialization, not +8.


----------



## kirinke (Oct 27, 2008)

Hmmm. Could the DM use fiat to get Stratos over to where Hope is? The Evil mastermind needs some real shaking up.


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## Elric (Oct 27, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Hmmm. Could the DM use fiat to get Stratos over to where Hope is? The Evil mastermind needs some real shaking up.




I would also prefer Stratos get some shaking up.  Could the GM use fiat to get Stratos knocked out by Nitro's shockwave?


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## Victim (Oct 27, 2008)

Any shake up that costs Stratos his dodge bonus is fine by me.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Oct 28, 2008)

Man, is it me, or do we usually get our asses kicked on a regular basis?  I think my name is going to change to Damage Control.


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## Elric (Oct 28, 2008)

Fangor- board ate my post.  Short story: you can use Teleport (if you're in range already, which might not be the case), then switch your array to Blast and Blast Devil Ray.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Oct 28, 2008)

Range is no problem... 600 feet should do the trick, right?  That's two football fields, and should be enough to cover the distance from him to Neired.  Also, I am using Turnabout, which is the option to return to the same spot I started, as full round.  With me Teleporting to the captive woman, then wanting to return, I would have to keep the AP on Teleport.  I can switch as free action 1 per round, but that's not a viable option if I choose to blast him.  I would then spend my Free Action of AP switch to BLAST, and not be able to use the Turnaround Power Feat.  I would be stuck there until next round.  Correct?


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## Fangor the Fierce (Oct 28, 2008)

OR.......... I could use Extra Effort, knowing I would be fatigued next round, and do something about this whole mess....  Man, but what to do!!!


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## Victim (Oct 29, 2008)

It would be nice if someone attacked Orion before he becomes unstunned.  I think Wren might be the only one in initiative position to do that.  Other people can attempt to rescue Nereid before Devil Ray gets too far away.

And DM_Matt, expect a PM on ATT shortly.


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## kirinke (Oct 29, 2008)

Hope's down and out, my call I know, essentially because I figure with a blast from Orion coupled with a blast from Hiroshima, she'd go from trying to recover to unconscious quick. She does have that lil flame/heat weakness.


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## Jemal (Oct 29, 2008)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/243998-important-good-bye.html


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## Victim (Oct 29, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Hope's down and out, my call I know, essentially because I figure with a blast from Orion coupled with a blast from Hiroshima, she'd go from trying to recover to unconscious quick. She does have that lil flame/heat weakness.




You know that a weakness to fire means that DC of fire attacks that you have to save against increases, right.  Not the severity of the effect after the fact.

Are we going to be looking for a new player now?  I know someone who is interested.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 29, 2008)

Victim said:


> You know that a weakness to fire means that DC of fire attacks that you have to save against increases, right.  Not the severity of the effect after the fact.
> 
> Are we going to be looking for a new player now?  I know someone who is interested.




PM me about said person via ATT.


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## Victim (Oct 30, 2008)

PM sent.


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## Elric (Oct 30, 2008)

Wren should really go heal Hope.  Then Hope should blast Hiroshima Shadow.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 30, 2008)

Victim said:


> PM sent.




Responded.  He can go ahead and come into the thread to discuss character building.


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## Hammerhead (Oct 30, 2008)

Hey everyone! I've been reading this game for a while (I'm friends with Victim in RL), and I'm excited for a chance to join you guys in playing it. 

First, a question about campaign timeline: how long ago did Barrington form his little "Army of Hope?" I figured that a good way to integrate a new character into the group would be a reason to also go after the main bad guy (other than general altruism/heroics). Getting used by Barrington/Cincinndouchus and finding out that his stated goals merely support his underlying villainy and status as resident BBEG.  

My character idea was a Life Controller with heavy Enhanced Constitution and Regeneration, along with some exotic attacks: Nauseate (from LC), Stun, Fatigue, and Emotion Control. He was injected with some kind of alien/super-advanced medical nanotechnology, and can use the nanites to mess with other people's biological processes. I can understand if the use of invasive nanites to mess with other (bad) people might seem a little creepy.


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## Victim (Oct 30, 2008)

> "Want to help humanity? To save the less fortunate from war and famine? To develop the entire world so that all can live the lives that we take for granted? Join the Compassion Force, and work on vital projects for the betterment of our world. Or, if you want to take on evil more directly, ask about our Army of Hope, which protects the innocent from oppression worldwide. "




The compassion force might be better choice if you wanted to have been involved with Barrington at some point.  But I had thought that those were basically new programs.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Oct 30, 2008)

Where is Wren at on this new round?  Did you keep him in the water, or allow him to return to his previous place?


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## DM_Matt (Oct 30, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Where is Wren at on this new round?  Did you keep him in the water, or allow him to return to his previous place?




You can move back in general, although the middle of the casino where you were is not the safest of spots to end your move in.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 30, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Hey everyone! I've been reading this game for a while (I'm friends with Victim in RL), and I'm excited for a chance to join you guys in playing it.
> 
> First, a question about campaign timeline: how long ago did Barrington form his little "Army of Hope?" I figured that a good way to integrate a new character into the group would be a reason to also go after the main bad guy (other than general altruism/heroics). Getting used by Barrington/Cincinndouchus and finding out that his stated goals merely support his underlying villainy and status as resident BBEG.
> 
> My character idea was a Life Controller with heavy Enhanced Constitution and Regeneration, along with some exotic attacks: Nauseate (from LC), Stun, Fatigue, and Emotion Control. He was injected with some kind of alien/super-advanced medical nanotechnology, and can use the nanites to mess with other people's biological processes. I can understand if the use of invasive nanites to mess with other (bad) people might seem a little creepy.






Victim said:


> The compassion force might be better choice if you wanted to have been involved with Barrington at some point.  But I had thought that those were basically new programs.




Barrington has been active in various forms since around World War I, when he discovered a cache of alien technology in Egypt (the location of which the PCs recently discovered he bought from the alien warmonger and arms dealer Ares at the request of Ares' old friend Hades).  He took on the roles of a number of religiously-themed supervillains, from the Pharaonic Villains Set and The Mummy's Curse to the Nazi Pagan magic-using psycho Kreiglok to the Anglican anti-Catholic supervillain Henry the 88th to most recently, Johnny Jihad, official hero of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

As Victim said, though, these organizations are new entities. Barrington/Cincinnatus has only be active for a few weeks, but he had largely pre-formed these organizations, largely through front organizations, early alliances with other villains, countries and terrorist groups, and however the evil minion labor market works.  A lot of his Legion of Hope guys are mercs, soldiers, or terrorists from allied groups.  The Compassion Corps is mostly deceived do-gooders, hired labor, and experts from allied orgs.  Both groups grew significantly after Barrington's activities began due to the success of his propaganda and the extension of his alliances.


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## DM_Matt (Oct 30, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Hey everyone! I've been reading this game for a while (I'm friends with Victim in RL), and I'm excited for a chance to join you guys in playing it.
> 
> First, a question about campaign timeline: how long ago did Barrington form his little "Army of Hope?" I figured that a good way to integrate a new character into the group would be a reason to also go after the main bad guy (other than general altruism/heroics). Getting used by Barrington/Cincinndouchus and finding out that his stated goals merely support his underlying villainy and status as resident BBEG.
> 
> My character idea was a Life Controller with heavy Enhanced Constitution and Regeneration, along with some exotic attacks: Nauseate (from LC), Stun, Fatigue, and Emotion Control. He was injected with some kind of alien/super-advanced medical nanotechnology, and can use the nanites to mess with other people's biological processes. I can understand if the use of invasive nanites to mess with other (bad) people might seem a little creepy.




Gotta say I'm mostly in the creepy camp...


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## Victim (Oct 31, 2008)

Creepy like alien spores doing similar things?


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## Hammerhead (Oct 31, 2008)

Well, it's one thing if villains do something...I mean, The Devil might be a good villain, but a poor hero. 

If Life Control is nixed, then how about a character with a greater training component (although sadly, that means this character would actually have to make attack rolls ). How about an ex-intelligence agent gifted with a nanite injection that gives him enhanced physical abilities and regeneration, combined with years of experience in the field? Main attack would probably be weapon/firearm-based, although obviously non-lethal (rubber bullets? a tazer-like projectile?). And he could help fill-in for Optic's amazing ability to know everything via Well-Informed.  

From a mechanical perspective, some kind of main regeneration ability is incredibly attractive, so I'm pretty sure t/ whatever character I play is going to have it. 

A variation on the Life Controller would be nanites granting Enhanced Constitution, Regen, and Shapeshifting, with a few basic powers that might be relatively common (like Enhanced Strength or Strike for some actual cheap attack). 

Thoughts?


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## Hammerhead (Oct 31, 2008)

You know, the whole Shapeshifter idea would probably work better with something involving the Grue, the shapeshifting alien race. I thought the one spy the group was going to be looking for (before the huge fight against...everyone) had Grue DNA. Maybe some more advanced experiment along similar lines, or a renegade Grue (if that's even possible...my shapeshifting alien lore check is a little rusty).


----------



## DM_Matt (Oct 31, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Well, it's one thing if villains do something...I mean, The Devil might be a good villain, but a poor hero.
> 
> If Life Control is nixed, then how about a character with a greater training component (although sadly, that means this character would actually have to make attack rolls ). How about an ex-intelligence agent gifted with a nanite injection that gives him enhanced physical abilities and regeneration, combined with years of experience in the field? Main attack would probably be weapon/firearm-based, although obviously non-lethal (rubber bullets? a tazer-like projectile?). And he could help fill-in for Optic's amazing ability to know everything via Well-Informed.
> 
> ...






Hammerhead said:


> You know, the whole Shapeshifter idea would probably work better with something involving the Grue, the shapeshifting alien race. I thought the one spy the group was going to be looking for (before the huge fight against...everyone) had Grue DNA. Maybe some more advanced experiment along similar lines, or a renegade Grue (if that's even possible...my shapeshifting alien lore check is a little rusty).





The nanite guy and the Grue experiment guy are good, although I am wary of the actual Shapeshifting power (as opposed to Morph plus other abilities), since it involves massive reconfiguration of characters each time its used. 

The renegade Grue isn't because I don't want to set up connections to active alien races.


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## Elric (Nov 1, 2008)

Short term plan: Since we don't seem to be under attack at the moment, Wren spends 3 rounds healing Skylark of staggered and Hope of disabled and staggered.

Taking back the hotel will be tough, since the Animus Queen could probably Mind Control most of us.  Helping out Star might be good, since there's likely to be a lot of villains over there and we know what happened the last time we took on Killer Bee outnumbered...


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## Victim (Nov 1, 2008)

Elric said:


> Short term plan: Since we don't seem to be under attack at the moment, Wren spends 3 rounds healing Skylark of staggered and Hope of disabled and staggered.
> 
> Taking back the hotel will be tough, since the Animus Queen could probably Mind Control most of us.  Helping out Star might be good, since there's likely to be a lot of villains over there and we know what happened the last time we took on Killer Bee outnumbered...




On the other hand, leaving a mind controller alone when she has a bunch of targets just lets the enemy build some momentum.  If taking back the hotel is tough now, what will it be like if you give the enemy more time to spread the spores and prepare?

Also, she didn't try mind control on Wren, instead going for some sort of Possession(?).

Healing on our injured people seems like a good move.

I was thinking that Star might spend a few rounds setting up triggered attacks from hiding if she's fighting by herself.  Attacking just once right away seems like it'd make her a huge target to all the helicopters outside, plus any guys there, so it'd be better not to reveal herself until she can attack the most dangerous things outside.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 2, 2008)

Victim said:


> On the other hand, leaving a mind controller alone when she has a bunch of targets just lets the enemy build some momentum.  If taking back the hotel is tough now, what will it be like if you give the enemy more time to spread the spores and prepare?
> 
> Also, she didn't try mind control on Wren, instead going for some sort of Possession(?).
> 
> ...




The healling is a good suggestion.  I know pbp's bog down like crazy when the group is faced with a tough decision, as everyone hopes someone else will work it out.  Your choices have pros and cons, but hopefully it will be fun no matter what you do.  However, doing nothing is presumably less fun than any of your options.  

Meanwhile, Hammerhead, what are your current thoughts on a character?


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## kirinke (Nov 3, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> The healling is a good suggestion.  I know pbp's bog down like crazy when the group is faced with a tough decision, as everyone hopes someone else will work it out.  Your choices have pros and cons, but hopefully it will be fun no matter what you do.  However, doing nothing is presumably less fun than any of your options.
> 
> Meanwhile, Hammerhead, what are your current thoughts on a character?





Hope can at least help with the fires and whatnot, superbreath and her own wind/rain powers would be great with this. Well, once they heal her that is.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 3, 2008)

Well, I've come up with a couple of ideas, and created several build skeletons. Why don't you let me know what idea you think is best (and other players, please chime in ). 

The first idea is a Life Controller, but with a change in the power source and FX. The character uses Enhanced Con, Regeneration, and Life Control; he hits with a lot of exotic Perception attacks like Nauseate, Stun, Fatigue, and Emotion Control, and probably has some Healing capability as well. The character would be a geologist working for a natural resource exploration/extraction company, invested with supernatural powers by some Earth spirits (although he's pretty unsuited for such a gift, given that his modus operandi is to exploit natural resources, not protect them). I assume that with the change in FX from creepy nanites to more conventional Alien/Magical powers, the character is acceptable? The characters stats are mostly done, I have ten or so points to spend but got most of the core powers that I want. 

The second idea is a nanite-powered superspy, someone sort of like J.C. Denton (I know you've played Deux Ex...now that was a great game). Probably uses a combination of good skills/feats, a Nanite powered Container, and one or two Devices...like a gun. Basically a retired agent given a new chance to kick terrorist ass by some experimental nanites. I made one version already, but I don't really like it too much, so that's probably going to get a rewrite. 

The third idea, currently unwritten, is some kind of spy subject to some Grue experiment to give them cool shapeshifting powers. Probably uses Strike and Protection for defense, with both Morph and a few ranks of Shapeshift for versatility. I realize that using Shapeshift is going to be a bit of a pain, but I'd probably use a standard configuration most of the time, and only change it in specific instances. It's still a helluva lot less annoying than Nemesis.  The problem with just relying on Morph is that it's not much of a power...Mystique seems pretty cool in the X-Men movies, but she's also pretty weak. A hero using Shapeshift, instead of just Morph, seems to be more on the level of the other PCs. 

The fourth, as of yet unmentioned, is an ex-con turned hero using object mimicry. But not the actual power Object Mimicry. Basically he would use a Container similar to Alternate Power, and could turn into Solid (Titanium ring), Liquid (carries Water bottle), Particulate (pocket full of sand), Gaseous (he's breathing, right), or Energy (there's light, right?) with the power Complication (Must touch matter). One question I have is could this character have use different tradeoffs for each form. The other real difference from Alternate Power would be that I would just use Super Strength, Enhanced Strength, and Protection for the Solid form (instead of Density, which is just...weak. Very weak. It's impossible to efficiently hit your limits).


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## Victim (Nov 3, 2008)

I like the Life Controller.  Basically, our group doesn't have an exotic attack specialist - Viridian was mostly covering that.  Sure, pretty much everyone has at least one non damaging attack, but that's not really their go to thing.  We could use sort of mentalist type to screw up our enemies.

Instead of using Shapeshift, you could use an array with your preset forms.  And then just power stunt any one off shapes.  

The agent seems like a good background concept, but the power set doesn't seem very interesting.  I mean, you shoot people, and then regenerate?  And that's pretty much it?  We could use the attitude of that sort of character though.  

The alternate form idea just seems blah to me.  It's sort of like playing several characters.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 4, 2008)

Victim said:


> I like the Life Controller.  Basically, our group doesn't have an exotic attack specialist - Viridian was mostly covering that.  Sure, pretty much everyone has at least one non damaging attack, but that's not really their go to thing.  We could use sort of mentalist type to screw up our enemies.




The people have spoken? Anyways, here's the draft of my character:

[sblock]
*Life Controller PL 11

Abilities:*

Strength 12
Dexterity 10
Constitution 18/36
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 14
Charisma 10

_18/172 points _

*Skills:*
Bluff +12 (12 ranks)
Drive +4 (2 ranks)
Knowledge: Earth Sciences +14 (12 ranks)
Knowledge: Life Sciences +14 (12 ranks)
Medicine +10 (8 ranks)
Notice +12 (10 ranks)
Sense Motive +10 (8 ranks)
Survival +10 (8 ranks)

_36/172 points points_

*Feats:* Dodge Focus 6, Endurance, Improved Initiative 2, Luck 2

_47/172 points_

*Saves:*
Toughness +13
Fortitude +13
Reflex +8
Will +12

_65/172 points_

*Attacks and Defenses:*
Tradeoffs: -2 Defense, +2 Toughness;  

Base Attack: +2
Base Defense +3

Melee/Ranged Attack +2
Defense 19/12

_75/172 points_

*Powers:*

Enhanced Constitution 18

Immunity 3: Aging, Disease, Poison

Regeneration 16 – Bruise – 1 rnd, Injured – 1 rnd, Staggered – 1 rnd, Disable – 1 min, Ability Damage – 1 hr

Super Senses 3-DNA Awareness

Flight 3

Life Control  11- Reversible 
-AP Stun 11 – Perception Range; Reversible
-AP Suffocate 11- Perception Range 
-AP Fatigue 11- Perception Range, Reversible
-AP Emotion Control 11 – Area, Selective, Subtle 
-AP Healing 9 – Total, Perception 
-AP Drain 11 – Perception, All Physical Ability Scores, Reversible

_172/172 points_
[/sblock]


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## Fangor the Fierce (Nov 5, 2008)

That healing power is not going to work.  I had to reduce mine to only touch, and only standard action.  Hence, my character concept.  Just letting you know.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 5, 2008)

That's what I remember reading, way back when. However, Perception Healing is the recommended AP for Life Control, and I don't even think that Perception is worth it for the power. I mean, it's not like I would need to make an attack roll to hit an ally, right? 

Also, Healing default is a Full-Round Action, so either I can heal from long range, or I just move in and spend a standard action to heal. No biggie.


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## Victim (Nov 5, 2008)

IIRC, reducing action on healing is a huge deal because the person being healed also has to spend that action making their recovery.


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## Victim (Nov 5, 2008)

Better idea: change the healing so its something like Standard, Total, Perception, and then Tiring or some other appropriate flaw (side effect, some variation of unreliable, tiring for the recipient, etc -  something to prevent repeat uses from being a good idea).  That makes it a superior emergency heal, but it can't be used to repeatedly to stay ahead on incoming damage or casually.  It also makes it more distinct from Wren's cosmic healing, which is less powerful but doesn't carry an extra cost.

Note that for Tiring to be a big problem, a rank of Luck should be dropped, I think.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 6, 2008)

Sorry I've not been posting much.  Now that the elections are over (Well, over enough), I'm really back.

Regarding Hammerhead's character, I still have concerns.  A host of diverse exotic save attacks at perception range at PL is extremely powerful, in addition to the concerns about offensive nanobots.  

The other two work better storywise, in that the group could use someone like that, and in that it would be easy to incorporate them into the campaign backstory.  For instance, either can come from that same Cold War super creation program (or a Trust descendant of it) that created Mr. Black (electricity-controlling mutant who was given nanites with his own powers used to power and interface with them) and Dick Marcus (built with Grue DNA).


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## Elric (Nov 7, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> The third idea, currently unwritten, is some kind of spy subject to some Grue experiment to give them cool shapeshifting powers. Probably uses Strike and Protection for defense, with both Morph and a few ranks of Shapeshift for versatility. I realize that using Shapeshift is going to be a bit of a pain, but I'd probably use a standard configuration most of the time, and only change it in specific instances. It's still a helluva lot less annoying than Nemesis.  The problem with just relying on Morph is that it's not much of a power...Mystique seems pretty cool in the X-Men movies, but she's also pretty weak. A hero using Shapeshift, instead of just Morph, seems to be more on the level of the other PCs.




It should be possible to do a character of this sort without using Shapeshift.  See my Martial Manhunter build for an example: here.  I think we could really use a stealthy character with Mind Reading.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 7, 2008)

All right, here's the draft of the Shapeshifter with Grue DNA. Thanks for the link Elric, your Martian Manhunter came in handy. By the way, the way you stat out comics characters is nice, since they actually have reasonable PLs. The character's name is Animus, a name largely chosen because it sounds somewhat heroic without any real indication to the characters powers. 

A nice thing if you happen to be a shapeshifter.  

[sblock]
*Animus PL 11 – 172 PP

Abilities:*

Strength 14
Dexterity 14
Constitution 18/32 
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 10
Charisma 14

_20/172 points _

*Skills:*
Acrobatics 8
Bluff 16
Disguise 16
Escape Artist 8
Gather Information 12
Notice 8
Search 4
Sense Motive 8
Sleight of Hand 8
Stealth 8

_24/172 points_

*Feats:* All-Out Attack, Benefit: Alternate Identity, Contacts, Distract, Improved Initiative, Luck 2, Power Attack, Uncanny Dodge, Well-Informed 

_10/172 points_

*Saves:*
Toughness +11
Fortitude +11
Reflex +10
Will +8

_14/172 points_

*Attacks and Defenses:*
Base Attack +2
Base Defense +3
Attack Focus: Melee +10
Dodge Focus +8

_28/172 points_

*Powers:*

Morph 5 (all humanoid shapes) - Precise
-AP: Concealment 5: All Visual, Hearing – Close –Passive

_12 points_

Enhanced Constitution 14
Regeneration 16 – Bruise 1 rnd, Injured 1 rnd, Staggered 1 rnd, Disabled 1 min, Ability Damage 1 hour

_30 points_

Grue Powers Array:
Telepathy 10 – Subtle + Comprehend 2
-AP: Mental Blast 11 – Distracting, Full Round Action
-AP: Strike 8 – Penetrating 8 - Mighty – Enhanced Feat: Improved Grapple, Improved Pin, Improved Critical 2 – Elongation 2 (Free Action) 

_27 points_

Weak Movement Array:
Speed 1, Leaping 2
-AP: Swim 2, Immunity Drowning
-AP: Super-Movement: Wall Climbing 1, Speed 1
-AP: Flight 2 – Limited (Wings) 

_6 points_

Super Senses: Low Light Vision 

_1 point_

_76/172 points_

[/sblock]


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## Elric (Nov 8, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> All right, here's the draft of the Shapeshifter with Grue DNA. Thanks for the link Elric, your Martian Manhunter came in handy. By the way, the way you stat out comics characters is nice, since they actually have reasonable PLs. The character's name is Animus, a name largely chosen because it sounds somewhat heroic without any real indication to the characters powers.
> 
> A nice thing if you happen to be a shapeshifter.
> 
> ...




You're welcome.  "Animus" doesn't seem heroic; the word means "hostility".  The build generally looks fine to me, though Matt was trying to get characters w/out HP powered abilities (e.g., Inspire) to avoid taking more than 1 rank of Luck.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 8, 2008)

In what language? From what I recall, and what an online dictionary later confirmed, is that Animus means "soul." 

Results for 'animus'
Latin 	English
animus 	character, intellect, memory, consciousness
animus 	courage, vivacity, bravery, will, spirit, soul.


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## Elric (Nov 8, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> In what language? From what I recall, and what an online dictionary later confirmed, is that Animus means "soul."




English?  WordNet Search - 3.0


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## kirinke (Nov 8, 2008)

How about:
Meta Morph
Meta Man
Cenhelm (bravery)


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## Victim (Nov 9, 2008)

You might want to double check the police while you're still at the hotel.  Remember that the illusionists and mind controllers teleported away from the naval base when it was attacked by the military.  So they could double back there, pretend to be the authorities, and then evacute their whole team when they're supposed to be getting arrested.

The Crime League apparently does a pretty good job of making sure they don't all get captured - otherwise they wouldn't have such long careers as supervillains.


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## Victim (Nov 9, 2008)

BOOM!  Goodbye helicopter crews; we didn't know you at all.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 9, 2008)

I like Animus, so I'm keeping it. And if I've never heard of its modern meaning, there's a good chance my character hasn't either.  And as I said, it sounds cool. 

So Star wracks up her first body count! Good job, Star, we all knew you had it in you! And since they could have been mind controlled, it just might be accidental murder! Go team! 

With luck, Control Freak was remote piloting the gunships.


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## Victim (Nov 9, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> So Star wracks up her first body count! Good job, Star, we all knew you had it in you! And since they could have been mind controlled, it just might be accidental murder! Go team!
> 
> With luck, Control Freak was remote piloting the gunships.




I was actually worried about that on the Foundry mission.  If there wasn't an extra layer of defensive traps between the shell and the functional base, there was a chance of Star's attack blasting into the upper areas of the base, depending on its thickness/composition.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 9, 2008)

Regardless of the collateral damage, it was pretty awesome.


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## Victim (Nov 9, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Regardless of the collateral damage, it was pretty awesome.




When, now?  Yeah, that worked out pretty well - Star is really dangerous when she can prepare the battle ground without being engaged.  Which doesn't happen all that often, cause she's a superhero.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 9, 2008)

If you only switched sides? I bet Barrington offers better health care.


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## Victim (Nov 9, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> If you only switched sides? I bet Barrington offers better health care.




I doubt it.  We haven't seen any one of his guys use Healing yet, AFAIK.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 9, 2008)

Doncha know this is a comic book crossed with an action film?  Scenery explodes fantastically, but unnamed mooks always manage to survive.


----------



## Hammerhead (Nov 9, 2008)

Anything that needs to change about my character build? Other than reducing my Luck down to 1?


----------



## DM_Matt (Nov 9, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Anything that needs to change about my character build? Other than reducing my Luck down to 1?





I'll give it a thorough look-through now, ad maybe provide some suggestions for tightening the build.  Now ure if you are aware, but the current battle involves the Crime League and Barrington's crew dropping spores on Freedom City that cause people to to be overcome with violent hatred.  They are sed by a certain monster to reproduce (they grow in human brains, with the behavior change being a side effect).  The creature: an Animus Beast.  There is an Animus Queen with the baddies in the hotel they took over.  

In light of that, the name would be pretty awkward.


----------



## DM_Matt (Nov 10, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> All right, here's the draft of the Shapeshifter with Grue DNA. Thanks for the link Elric, your Martian Manhunter came in handy. By the way, the way you stat out comics characters is nice, since they actually have reasonable PLs. The character's name is Animus, a name largely chosen because it sounds somewhat heroic without any real indication to the characters powers.
> 
> A nice thing if you happen to be a shapeshifter.
> 
> ...




OK, here are suggestions.  They aren't required:

1.  Penetrating is quite bad, especially a lot of it, and especially if you have power attack, and in this campaign I have yet to hit you guys with anything above Impervious 11.  You can save 8pp by getting rid of it and moving 8 ranks of AF:Melee into the array.

2.  I like that you did passive on big concealment. I wouldn't allow oncealment that can stay on during combat.

3.  Your fort and ref are quite high.  You might want them that way, or you might want to save points.  Your Will save should not be your lowest save, considering that you are a telepath.

4.  Feel free to move bruised/injured regen to no action, if you want a really strong regenerator.

5. You might want to tweak your skills.  You can reduce disguise since you have so much disguise from morph.  Escape artist is not very good ether.  A super-spy might want disable device and computers, too.  Stealth, Sense Motive, Notice, and Slight of Hand all call for opposed rolls against opponents, so you should consider that in terms of how many points of each you want.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 10, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> OK, here are suggestions.  They aren't required:
> 
> 1.  Penetrating is quite bad, especially a lot of it, and especially if you have power attack, and in this campaign I have yet to hit you guys with anything above Impervious 11.  You can save 8pp by getting rid of it and moving 8 ranks of AF:Melee into the array.




Yeah, Penetrating does suck; I only bought it because no other Extra really fit my powers. However, putting so much of my attack bonus into an array seemed pretty cheesy, but if you're okay with it, great! I still might grab one or two ranks b/c my character is attack shifted. 




			
				DM_Matt said:
			
		

> 3.  Your fort and ref are quite high.  You might want them that way, or you might want to save points.  Your Will save should not be your lowest save, considering that you are a telepath.
> 
> 4.  Feel free to move bruised/injured regen to no action, if you want a really strong regenerator.




I'll pump my Will defense then; I like having high saves. With the points you've saved me on my attack bonus, I should be able to bump it up a few points without any real problems.




			
				DM_Matt said:
			
		

> 5. You might want to tweak your skills.  You can reduce disguise since you have so much disguise from morph.  Escape artist is not very good ether.  A super-spy might want disable device and computers, too.  Stealth, Sense Motive, Notice, and Slight of Hand all call for opposed rolls against opponents, so you should consider that in terms of how many points of each you want.




Actually, at a cost of 1 pp per +4 bonus, compared to Morph's cost of 2pp per +5, it would be more efficient to reduce Morph's rank. The Passive Concealment only runs me six points worth of powers, so I could reduce the Morph rank down to 3. That would leave me with a total Diguise of +33, which is still pretty sweet. 

The next iteration of my character is on its way.


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## Elric (Nov 10, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Actually, at a cost of 1 pp per +4 bonus, compared to Morph's cost of 2pp per +5, it would be more efficient to reduce Morph's rank. The Passive Concealment only runs me six points worth of powers, so I could reduce the Morph rank down to 3. That would leave me with a total Diguise of +33, which is still pretty sweet.
> 
> The next iteration of my character is on its way.




Disguise ranks are not a perfect substitute for extra ranks in Morph.  See: The Atomic Think Tank :: View topic - Morph Question


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## Hammerhead (Nov 10, 2008)

Damn you and your ATT mumbo jumbo!


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## DM_Matt (Nov 10, 2008)

Additional ideas:  

1.  A variable equipment array for ample spy gear.  Relatively costly, but there are places to cut if you want.  It costs 6pp for 25ep of disarmable equipment, reconfigurable as a standard action.  An extra pp for non-disarmable, an extra pp for move action reconfig, another extra pp for free reconfig.

2.  Especially if you do that, but maybe regardless, you might want to also take an AP with a real ranged attack and ranged focus you can also use for shooting.  Maybe aimed TK with precise (very useful for sneaky stuff, and gives yo uthe lifting capacity that you really don't have.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 10, 2008)

The variable equipment does sound kind of cool, but my character isn't really gear based, and should suffice from just the free goodies the Trust gave him, plus his own innate abilities. He's more the kind of spy who uses his cunning and interaction skills more than bugs and trackers; HUMINT, if you will. 

The codename I'm now leaning towards is Errant, which should refer to the heroic underpinnings of the knight-errant of ye olden times. And of course, it doesn't refer to any kind of shapeshifting abilities (it doesn't pay to advertise your deceptive abilities, Kirinke). How does the color look, by the way? 

I had meant to write up my background tonight as well, but it took me a little too long to finish my other writing. Here's the new character sheet. 

[sblock]
*Christopher Dodgson – Errant 
PL 11 – 172 PP*

*Abilities:*

Strength 14
Dexterity 14
Constitution 18/32 
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 10
Charisma 14

_20 points 
_
*Skills:*
Acrobatics +10 (8 ranks)
Bluff +18 (16 ranks)
Disable Device +12 (12 ranks)
Disguise +6/+31 (4 ranks)
Gather Information +14 (12 ranks)
Notice +12 (12 ranks)
Search +4 (4 ranks)
Sense Motive +10 (10 ranks)
Sleight of Hand +14 (12 ranks)
Stealth +12 (10 ranks)

_25 points_

*Feats:* All-Out Attack, Benefit: Alternate Identity, Contacts, Distract, Improved Initiative, Luck , Power Attack, Uncanny Dodge (mental), Well-Informed 
_
9 points_

*Saves:*
Toughness +11
Fortitude +11
Reflex +9
Will +11

_18 points_

*Attacks and Defenses:*
Base Attack +2
Base Defense +3
Attack Focus: Melee +4
Dodge Focus +8

_22 points_

*Powers:*

Morph 5 (all humanoid shapes) - Precise
-AP: Concealment 5: All Visual, Hearing – Close –Passive

_12 points_

Enhanced Constitution 14
Regeneration 18 – Bruise no action, Injured no action, Staggered 1 rnd, Disabled 1 min

_32 points_

Grue Powers Array:
Telepathy 10 – Subtle + Comprehend 2
-AP: Mental Blast 11 – Distracting, Full Round Action
-AP: Strike 8 – Penetrating 2 - Mighty – Enhanced Feat: Attack Focus 6, Improved Grapple, Improved Pin, Improved Critical 2 – Elongation 2 (Free Action) 

_27 points_

Movement Array:
Speed 1, Leaping 2
-AP: Swim 2, Immunity Drowning
-AP: Super-Movement: Wall Climbing 1, Speed 1
-AP: Flight 2 – Limited (Wings) 

_6 points_

Super Senses: Low Light Vision 

_1 point_

*Devices and Equipment: *
1 multitool , 1 set of masterwork handcuffs (2ep), 1 commlink (1ep), 1 iPhone (masterwork computer, cell phone, camera 4ep), 1 flashlight (1ep), 1 SigSaur P226 9mm masterwork heavy pistol w/silencer, laser sight, and ammo (11ep, +4dmg, +2 to attack), 1 set of lockpicks 

_0 points, from the Trust_

*Complications*

Addiction – Medical drugs

Enemy – The Foundry

_172 points_
[/sblock]

Everything look good? Background coming tomorrow.


----------



## Victim (Nov 10, 2008)

Dodgson?  We've got Dodgson here!


----------



## kirinke (Nov 10, 2008)

Alright, I'm a bit confused with all the action there, what's the situation as Hope would see it?


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## Victim (Nov 10, 2008)

Is that vision thing enough to start attacking Killer Bee with Indirect 3?  And if not, does it at least provide rough direction?


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## DM_Matt (Nov 10, 2008)

Victim said:


> Is that vision thing enough to start attacking Killer Bee with Indirect 3?  And if not, does it at least provide rough direction?




She can get there, but she cannot target from here.


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## Victim (Nov 10, 2008)

If she's that upset, then blasting straight through with her cone attack might inflict some damage and open up a straight path.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 11, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> The variable equipment does sound kind of cool, but my character isn't really gear based, and should suffice from just the free goodies the Trust gave him, plus his own innate abilities. He's more the kind of spy who uses his cunning and interaction skills more than bugs and trackers; HUMINT, if you will.
> 
> The codename I'm now leaning towards is Errant, which should refer to the heroic underpinnings of the knight-errant of ye olden times. And of course, it doesn't refer to any kind of shapeshifting abilities (it doesn't pay to advertise your deceptive abilities, Kirinke). How does the color look, by the way?
> 
> ...




Yeah, though once the background is completed, it might change how exactly you want his stats to look.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 11, 2008)

[sblock]
*Vital Stats*
Name: Christopher Marion Dodgson
Alias: Errant
Age: 35
Birthplace: Washington D.C.
Gender: Male*
Height: 5'10"*
Weight: 180 lbs.*
Hair: Black*
Eyes: Brown*
IQ: 103
Myers-Briggs Type: ESTP
*Variable due to shapeshifting

*Early Life*
Mr. Christopher Dodgson was born the only child of Richard and Mary Dodgson of Washington D.C. Christopher's mother left Washington D.C. three years after her birth for unknown reasons; her current whereabouts are unknown. Richard Dodgson, a pharmaceutical lobbyist in Washington, raised his son as a single father. Descriptions of his childhood and father by Christopher indicate that his father was a largely disinterested and absentee parent who often left Christopher to fend for himself while he concentrated on his work. Christopher was accepted to Georgetown University and majored in a Communications. He spent two semesters on academic probation, but graduated from Georgetown with a 2.8 GPA. 

*Career with the CIA*
After his graduation, Christopher Dodgson was recruited by the Central Intelligence Agency; he underwent and passed field agent training at the Farm, receiving favorable recommendations from many of his instructors. He was highly rated for long-term undercover infiltration. One instructor remarked that he excelled in manipulating others even outside the training, and inspired trust unconsciously. 

His first assignment sent him to Eastern Europe, where he gathered intelligence on arms dealers, freelance mercenaries, ambitious warlords, and underground war criminals. After 9/11, Christopher was quickly reassigned to Afghanistan: he made deals with regional military leaders, developed contacts within the populace, and spied on the workings of Al-Qaeda. His work in Afghanistan earned him an Intelligence star, and after returning to Langely for his promotion, he was again reassigned. With the War on Terror, officials at the DOD and CIA feared the use of next-generation technologies by traditional terrorist organizations. Christopher Dodgson infiltrated the arms-dealing organization known at the Foundry and was hired as an sales intermediary by the organization.

There he sent back large amounts of data about the Foundry's clients, locations, and technologies, preparing the CIA to destroy or subvert it. As part of his cover, he began dating the Foundry weapons and robotics genius Dr. Elira Kona. Shortly before a commando raid was organized to destroy much of the Foundry's operations within Europe, Christopher attempted to convince his girlfriend to leave the Foundry, suggesting that her life didn't have to be wasted in the employ of mercenary destruction. In his mission report, Dodgson reports that he did not ever actually break cover, but Dr. Kona was warned nonetheless, and carried this warning to her superiors. All Foundry operations were moved, and its clients warned of the impending danger. After this, the Foundry wasted no expense in discovering Christopher Dodgson's true identity, and placed a three million bounty for his capture. In addition, Dr. Kona, disgraced by Dodgson's seeming betrayal, began hunting him herself with her own suit of battle armor sporting the latest in Foundry antimatter technology. 

Returning to the United States for a formal inquiry and possible psychiatric evaluation, Christopher Dodgson was demoted, and his talents largely wasted in mundane intelligence gathering. In Chile, Dodgson contracted an unknown illness and was flown home to the States once more due to his medical emergency. What was initially feared as an unknown toxin as later diagonosed at John Hopkins as a rare genetic disorder, a kind of muscular and nerve degeneration. He went on medical leave from the CIA, as modern medicine had only given him a year to live.

*At the Trust*

We had identified Dodgson's talents during his days in Afghanistan, and his medical leave offered the Trust a rare opportunity to recruit this field agent. Our scientists theorized that a modified Cold War-era Grue DNA treatment could possibly reverse the damages caused by his genetic disorder, as well as imbuing him with Grue telepathy and shapeshifting abilities. Assessments at the CIA had indicated was highly unlikely to ever make a similar mistake to the one that cost him the Foundry, and he was highly motivated to redeem his previous failures. Mr. Black approached Christopher Dodgson and offered him the chance to work for the Trust and extend his life; Dodgson readily agreed. He joined the Trust as a spy, took up the codename Errant, and underwent the Grue gene therapy.

The treatments were mostly successful, giving him traditional Grue abilities as well as very potent regenerative abilities. Further human/Grue mutations might lead to additional abilities, and we are excited by the scientific possibilities that Errant offers. However, one side effect requires the injection of a concoction of stabilizing drugs to prevent rejection and muscular/nervous degeneration. Errant carries a month's supply on his person at all times, and further drug kits when on long assignments. However, this is still a potential weakness. 

Errant's three years with the Trust have proven that Mr. Black's recommendation to recruit Dodgson to be well-founded. He retains his interpersonal skills as well as those of a highly skilled CIA field agent, and still has many friends and acquaintances throughout the worldwide intelligence community. Given the severity of the Barrington situation and the personnel crises of our latest metahuman team, Errant is reassigned from his traditional assignments of espionage and sabotage to work directly with the unnamed team. 


-From the Trust Personnel Files 

[/sblock]

EDIT: Background Complete


----------



## Victim (Nov 12, 2008)

I think her comm would be on since she's been trying to talk to people.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 12, 2008)

Victim said:


> I think her comm would be on since she's been trying to talk to people.




Unless you say otherwise, and you have not, it is.


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## Victim (Nov 12, 2008)

So Nitro should have no problem hearing her.  And I guess she'd have no problem hearing his comment about losing it?


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## DM_Matt (Nov 12, 2008)

Victim said:


> So Nitro should have no problem hearing her.  And I guess she'd have no problem hearing his comment about losing it?




Yeah.


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## Victim (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah, I know she's really fragile.  I hope Killer Bee does lethal damage, since her save against that is higher.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 14, 2008)

Or you could try for non-lethal damage, so you don't, you know, die? 

By the way, in case you didn't notice the edit, my character's background is complete.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 14, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Or you could try for non-lethal damage, so you don't, you know, die?
> 
> By the way, in case you didn't notice the edit, my character's background is complete.




Ah, yes, there it is.  Its great. In fact, your story accidently coincides with some buried plot lines I have hinted at.  If you want, you can add roles for Red (Director of Medicine for the Trust), Mr. Blue (Director of Technological Services), Ms. White (Director of Personnel), and maybe Ms. Pink (Director of Psychological Services) in the Trust part in addition to Mr. Black.

You'll be transferred in as soon as they return to base, to help add needed skills to the team, just as Optic and Apollo get transferred out.  Alternatively, an opportunity might arise for you to show up early.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 14, 2008)

Neat. Adding my character to the Character Thread then. 

Yeah, I'm sure that the other Trust officers were probably involved in Errant's recruitment too. I'm glad that the background fits well with possible future developments.


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## Victim (Nov 17, 2008)

Well, that's not good.  Ares was bad enough before.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 17, 2008)

I think Star is going to try to turn Killer Bee into Darth Vader instead of killing him; burn off his arms and legs, melt away his skin and face, make every breath he takes living agony. I think I like her style.


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## Victim (Nov 17, 2008)

> (OOC: Are you going for an accidental kill by electrocution or the knife being better than it looks? Or are you intending to fight the spirits and try to capture him.)




I was basically thinking that any hazards in the environment would be potential sources of free damage with the right attack angle.  Free is good.

And her objective is more along the lines of maim/torture than either capture normally or kill.  It's sort of like she's putting her own spin on the vengeance - death is too much an end to suffering to be her choice for extreme punishment.

"Isn't that a little dark for you?"


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## kirinke (Nov 17, 2008)

Victim said:


> Well, that's not good.  Ares was bad enough before.




Hope is gonna do her best to stay as far away from him as possible. She definantly won't engage in anything other than witty banter with him. 

Heh. At least Star will begin to understand the depths of rage someone can feel when they loose somebody they care for alot. Right now, she's where Hope was when she lost her partner. I get the feeling Star has never really had anyone truly close to her die like that, especially not right in front of her. So before, she didn't really have any concept of that kind of rage and grief.


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## Victim (Nov 17, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Heh. At least Star will begin to understand the depths of rage someone can feel when they loose somebody they care for alot. Right now, she's where Hope was when she lost her partner. I get the feeling Star has never really had anyone truly close to her die like that, especially not right in front of her. So before, she didn't really have any concept of that kind of rage and grief.




Yeah, because having one's emotions jerked around by an external force is a great to build common understanding.  Especially since being angry and violent is coming with power and some protection from injury...


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## kirinke (Nov 17, 2008)

Victim said:


> Yeah, because having one's emotions jerked around by an external force is a great to build common understanding.  Especially since being angry and violent is coming with power and some protection from injury...




Hope doesn't know that for sure yet. But she'll probably be a heck of alot more sympathetic and understanding than the others would be, I think.


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## Victim (Nov 19, 2008)

Hmm, that was interesting.  I was wondering if the angry spirit thing might be some trick of Barrington's - if his media attacks are painting us as out of control vigilantes, then all the better if he could one of us to act that way.  Armored guy popping Killer Bee with a plasma weapon fits into that nicely.


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## Hammerhead (Nov 19, 2008)

Man, that Barrington is pretty slick. Nice. 

Of course, the fact that he's using PR attacks against the team is actually pretty heartening, since that means that the team still poses a significant threat to his plan, and that a more conventional attack (like using a death ray) is deemed too risky. Alternatively, he needs the team to be publicly ostracized to incite them into some action he needs to complete his plan.


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## Victim (Nov 19, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Alternatively, he needs the team to be publicly ostracized to incite them into some action he needs to complete his plan.




This seems more likely.  If his plan involves other people choosing to nuke something of his, then that means all options involving super powers would have to have failed or been discarded by that point.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 23, 2008)

Hey guys.  So now that Jemal is gone, is everyone still OK moving to ATT?  I don't play D&D anymore and probably never will, having not even tried to learn 4e, so I have no other reason to visit ENW.  I'd much rather just use ATT, even though the board is not quite as good software-wise.


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## Victim (Nov 23, 2008)

I have no problems with a move to ATT, although it is sort of nice to have all my pbp in one place.


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## kirinke (Nov 23, 2008)

No problem here either. Most of my games save for this one are on ATT anyhew.


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## Elric (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm fine with moving to ATT.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Nov 25, 2008)

Ok, guess I have to figure out if I had an account on there or not...


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## Victim (Nov 26, 2008)

So Star's still out?


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## Hammerhead (Nov 27, 2008)

Isn't there a contradiction in Hope's story...assuming she's telling the truth, that is? Earlier, she mentions how she worries that she's the child of Stratos and Medea; now, she's saying her mother is unknown, some faceless normal. Now, I think we can assume that if Stratos and Medea were to hook up, it wouldn't be before Stratos delves into the wide, wonderful, exciting world of supervilainy, right?


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## Elric (Nov 27, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Isn't there a contradiction in Hope's story...assuming she's telling the truth, that is? Earlier, she mentions how she worries that she's the child of Stratos and Medea; now, she's saying her mother is unknown, some faceless normal. Now, I think we can assume that if Stratos and Medea were to hook up, it wouldn't be before Stratos delves into the wide, wonderful, exciting world of supervilainy, right?




Hope is known for saying what she believes, but that doesn't mean she's correct...


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## Hammerhead (Nov 27, 2008)

Well, she's working with theory. 

But she just changed the theory, without any real reason why.


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## kirinke (Nov 27, 2008)

See, she doesn't know for sure either way.  With Medea, it's more a gut feeling than anything else, She looks enough like the woman to pass for her child or sister, plus with the magic, it's easy enough to make that sort of connection. So yeah, during the fight with the Crime league, she was kinda twisted up about it, you know, the what if's.

With Stratos, there is something a little more concrete, the old photograph and how similar it to her when she was a kid. And the coincidence of Stratos going off his rocker about the same time the family disappeared well.... 
Now that she has a chance to find out for sure....

She's not going to let it slip out of her fingers.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 27, 2008)

kirinke said:


> She looks enough like the woman to pass for her child or sister, plus with the magic, it's easy enough to make that sort of connection.




I'm surprised that Hope did not make more of White's admission that there really is no such thing as magic.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 27, 2008)

Ok, suddenly the idea of a terrorist group moving large numbers of people in by land and sea, taking and using government vehicles, using military-grade weaponry, and hitting numerous targets in the same city at the same time to overwhelm the security apparatus no longer feels as fictional....


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## Victim (Nov 27, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> I'm surprised that Hope did not make more of White's admission that there really is no such thing as magic.




Haha.

Seems sort of weird coming from her though, especially considering her previous interactions with Viridian.


----------



## kirinke (Nov 27, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> I'm surprised that Hope did not make more of White's admission that there really is no such thing as magic.




Where was that? I honestly missed it, been working from my parents computer today.  Visiting for thanksgiving y'know. Probably with everything else, she's kinda distracted anyway, what with Stratos and Medea being so near and the attacks on the city....


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## Victim (Nov 27, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Where was that? I honestly missed it, been working from my parents computer today.  Visiting for thanksgiving y'know. Probably with everything else, she's kinda distracted anyway, what with Stratos and Medea being so near and the attacks on the city....




When she said that magic was just using dead people souls as a battery for super powers (and then when you die, your soul recharges the battery).


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## kirinke (Nov 28, 2008)

Victim said:


> When she said that magic was just using dead people souls as a battery for super powers (and then when you die, your soul recharges the battery).




Ah. That's just Viridian's type of magic, not hers or Ms. White's. Hope's magic is directly connected with nature, she's more of a druidish type mage than anything else. At least that's how I read it.


----------



## Victim (Nov 28, 2008)

And you don't think that neopagan witchcraft has anything to do with nature?


----------



## kirinke (Nov 28, 2008)

Victim said:


> And you don't think that neopagan witchcraft has anything to do with nature?






There is a difference. I just can't exactly express it. Hope's powers are inborn, she doesn't have to make deals for power or worship anything or make rituals etc or anything like that. She's like a conduit for the natural magic running through her. That's what I meant by druidish. 

With neopagan witch-craft it's more 'magick' than druid-like magic, you know?

I guess a good analogy would be:
It's the difference between someone who can pick up a musical instrument and play well without any formal training or someone who can draw or paint really well vs. someone who learns a tune by rote. What Hope does/has, you can't learn. You can only practice to improve it if you got it.


----------



## DM_Matt (Nov 29, 2008)

kirinke said:


> There is a difference. I just can't exactly express it. Hope's powers are inborn, she doesn't have to make deals for power or worship anything or make rituals etc or anything like that. She's like a conduit for the natural magic running through her. That's what I meant by druidish.
> 
> With neopagan witch-craft it's more 'magick' than druid-like magic, you know?
> 
> ...




White did explain the soul thing as part of how Viridian wored, but she also said that "magic" and "spells" are just shortcuts to manipulate existing powers into related actions, but its generally just self-deception.  White is good enough at using her abilities that she can repurpose them directly now.  No one can use "magic" if they don't have powers of their own.


----------



## Victim (Dec 2, 2008)

Does Red have something to add, or should I have Star go again?


----------



## kirinke (Dec 2, 2008)

Victim said:


> Does Red have something to add, or should I have Star go again?




Basically, I think Hope is trying to extend the olive branch so to speak. She really does believe that Star didn't mean to kill Bee (I'm operating under the assumption that she didn't see the assassin dude pull the killing blow) and thinks that the Viridian spirits had a great deal to do with Star's uncontrollable rage.


----------



## Hammerhead (Dec 6, 2008)

DM_Matt said:
			
		

> Shortly after everyone gets back to HQ, each of you receive a text message "s-wing, mtg room, 5m. -w/b." When you arrive, Black, White, and Blue are already waiting, as well as two others -- a short brunette with glasses none of you have seen before, and a lanky man with a tag clearly indicating himself to be a member of Green division. Each seat, as before, has a screen mostly set into the table, but popping up a bit, a name screen on the back, a keyboard, and a dock for your phones. When you plug in, it automatically logs you in on the local machine and displays your name on the back. The Green division guy is Beta Green 8. The other is listed only as Chi Violet. The Chi designation is for special individuals not currently assigned to a superteam or non-super division.




Victim, your memory is freakish.


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## Victim (Dec 6, 2008)

Thanks.


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## DM_Matt (Dec 6, 2008)

Victim said:


> Thanks.





Wow.  Yeah, my mistake, mostly.  I accidently changed it from solo special operatives to spies.  I hereby retcon Skylark to have been part of Beta Blue Pi (Skylark was Beta Blue Pi 6) , a squad of scientists with powers who do research as well as operations , and are technically under Mr. Blue and his department rather than Mr. Black.


----------



## kirinke (Dec 6, 2008)

Matt, the next time we get PP, would it be okay to rework Hope's power array into a dynamic power array as well as cleaning it up a bit?


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## Hammerhead (Dec 9, 2008)

Star is mean.


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## Victim (Dec 9, 2008)

If that's mean, then I'm holding back some nasty comments for a later date.


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## kirinke (Dec 9, 2008)

Lol. That wasn't mean on Star's part. Like Hope said in character, they've been at it since day one. 

Mostly it is because Hope doesn't have any intrincint problem killing supervilians, she knows it's wrong and is trying to um.... modify her attitude, but it's still there. She really doesn't hate Star and can understand where she is coming from. They just won't ever agree.

As far as catfights go.

It wasn't. At least.... Not as far as Hope is concerned. They've had worse.


----------



## Hammerhead (Dec 10, 2008)

I've been reading this thread for quite a while, and I don't think that Star ever kicked Hope out before. Although she had quite the reaction to Hope's little "play with your mind" stunt. 

And I have to say, I think I know where my next power points are going: Equipment. I can't believe that I forgot to get some of those Mini-Tracers. They're only 1 ep each, so I can grab a couple, plus a concealable mic and some better lockpicks. Basically, anything to make my character like Batman ; with Errant's good Sleight of Hand, they should have been a given. Although given the movement abilities of many of our enemies, a 2 mile range sucks.


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## kirinke (Dec 11, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> I've been reading this thread for quite a while, and I don't think that Star ever kicked Hope out before. Although she had quite the reaction to Hope's little "play with your mind" stunt.




Lol. They were harping continously over her banishing the demon, which in Hope's mind was and still is completly justifiable and they just didn't get the whole 'irredeemably evil' thing. Even White and Black both agreed that the demon needed to be banished. Hope probably should have found a better way of doing it though. 

Heh. That's one incident Hope isn't proud about doing (giving Star and Nitro a 3d view of Onigumi's last meal sp to speak), but she had completely had it up to the proverbial "here". I view it as a psychic b-tch slap more or less.


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## Victim (Dec 11, 2008)

Of course, their introduction wasn't exactly a great start, either.

And the 3-D view wasn't the big problem for Star, it was imposing the emotions.  It's one thing to create a freestanding illusion, another to mess with people's heads directly.


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## DM_Matt (Dec 11, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> I've been reading this thread for quite a while, and I don't think that Star ever kicked Hope out before. Although she had quite the reaction to Hope's little "play with your mind" stunt.
> 
> And I have to say, I think I know where my next power points are going: Equipment. I can't believe that I forgot to get some of those Mini-Tracers. They're only 1 ep each, so I can grab a couple, plus a concealable mic and some better lockpicks. Basically, anything to make my character like Batman ; with Errant's good Sleight of Hand, they should have been a given. Although given the movement abilities of many of our enemies, a 2 mile range sucks.




If you want, feel free to take a pp from somewhere else and get an equipment feat.


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## Elric (Dec 11, 2008)

kirinke said:


> Heh. That's one incident Hope isn't proud about doing (giving Star and Nitro a 3d view of Onigumi's last meal sp to speak), but she had completely had it up to the proverbial "here". I view it as a psychic b-tch slap more or less.




Nitro actually never saw that vision as more than a haze of New Age nonsense.  He seems to have some strange immunity to Hope's powers in that regard.


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## kirinke (Dec 12, 2008)

Elric said:


> Nitro actually never saw that vision as more than a haze of New Age nonsense.  He seems to have some strange immunity to Hope's powers in that regard.




Only because he has a greater ego than Hope does herself.  

And as far as messing with Star's head.... That was the psychic b-tch-slap part .

In any case, she really does regret that little incident.


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## Victim (Dec 16, 2008)

Bump bah bah.


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## DM_Matt (Dec 16, 2008)

Victim said:


> Bump bah bah.




Yeah, sorry, real life is really kicking my arse.  I keep thinking "Just a little bit longer and I'll be out form under this epic pile of work.." and then it keeps taking even longer to dig out  I really am pretty sure I'll actually dig out in a day or two.


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## Hammerhead (Dec 19, 2008)

kirinke said:
			
		

> "No offense Errant. It's just I have someone I care for a great deal who does have a secret identity. I don't want that compromised. You do understand that right?" she looked at him, he'd know probably she was speaking of Foreshadow."




How exactly would Errant know this? He doesn't exactly subscribe to the Hope newsletter, nor does he read her LiveJournal page. Whatever romantic relationships Hope has or doesn't have, Errant is entirely ignorant of them. 

Besides, Foreshadow is a loser anyhow.


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## kirinke (Dec 19, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> How exactly would Errant know this? He doesn't exactly subscribe to the Hope newsletter, nor does he read her LiveJournal page. Whatever romantic relationships Hope has or doesn't have, Errant is entirely ignorant of them.
> Besides, Foreshadow is a loser anyhow.





He's a smart guy, he'd know she and Foreshadow worked together, wouldn't take much to put two and three together to get nine.


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## Victim (Dec 22, 2008)

kirinke said:


> He's a smart guy, he'd know she and Foreshadow worked together, wouldn't take much to put two and three together to get nine.




Superheroes can manage to work together without romantic involvement...  And I don't recall Hope mentioning Foreshadow specifically or any SO to other characters.  So it wouldn't seem unlikely that people wouldn't know about it.


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## Hammerhead (Dec 23, 2008)

Star should start a blog.


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## Victim (Dec 23, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Star should start a blog.




And put what in it?  Anything related to superheroing seems likely to run into security issues.  And Star has tended to be somewhat reticent about many personal things even with people she otherwise trusts - IIRC, Viridian was the only one she's told about her problems with her power (not that other people would be unable to know considering the Trust's records).  She thinks that revealing more of herself generally makes her less likeable.

And, in the current situation, it seems likely that she'd draw a ton of negative comments, which seems unlikely to improve her attitude.


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## Hammerhead (Dec 23, 2008)

Put whatever Star wants in it. It would help to establish us at the "cool" superheroes, the real next generation of people who protect the world. And it puts Star and the rest of the team more in touch with the man on the street (or at least guy on the internet); the team has largely avoided public attention up to this point. 

And maintaining a public presence would have to work better than hiding yourself away like all of those dark vigilantes in the 80s. Mention how you're cooperating with the police investigation into KB's death, etc.


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## Victim (Dec 23, 2008)

Maybe.

I wouldn't say we've been entirely news-shy, especially with people like Nitro.  But that's someone who was already somewhat famous.


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## Victim (Dec 24, 2008)

Were we going to move to ATT?


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## Hammerhead (Dec 24, 2008)

Maybe not mid-thread, at least.


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## DM_Matt (Dec 27, 2008)

Victim said:


> Were we going to move to ATT?




Once you guys leave the base/take action, we will move.


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## DM_Matt (Dec 30, 2008)

Kirinke -- You can't keep making stuff up about the world that is clearly mission-relevant.  If Hope would know something, declare a knowledge check and I'll give the answer.


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## kirinke (Dec 30, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> Kirinke -- You can't keep making stuff up about the world that is clearly mission-relevant.  If Hope would know something, declare a knowledge check and I'll give the answer.




Noted. And next time I will


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## Hammerhead (Dec 31, 2008)

DM_Matt said:
			
		

> (Hammerhead -- the Janjaweed are a real group, and are the ones primarily responsible for the genocide in Darfur. They are not a supervillain team)




Yeah, I guess that's what I get for not watching/reading the news. However, Errant is probably not so willfully ignorant, so I'm going to do a slight edit to my post. In order to free a necromancer from an extradimensional prison and wipe out an entire superteam, chances are they've got some kind of supervillain backup. 

Actually, rereading my post, I never really said that they were a supervillains, but yeah, I was totally ignorant they were a real life organization.


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## kirinke (Dec 31, 2008)

I've been talking with Matt about Hope and I've decided to retire her, because she just isn't working well with the group dynamic.

I'm considering creating a Telikenetic elementalist, one who can manipulate ice, cold, air, earth and water through a form of telikenisis. Nothing magical or mystical, her powers are plainly mutant in nature.

Here is the prelim build mark 3
Character Name..........Titha Akanth (Fire Thorn), locally nick-named by the bad-guys Dambudzo (Trouble)
Concept......................Elementalist
Quotation...................Y'know, I might not be as powerful as some, but I make up for it versatility.
Real Name..................Elysia Helen Achaikos
Identity.......................Secret
Origin.........................Mutant
Allegiance..................Good.
Motivation.................Responsibility
Gender.......................Female
Age.............................25
Height.........................5ft, 9 inches
Build...........................Slender, graceful
Hair.............................Gold-blond
Eyes............................Bright Green
Occupation.................Socialite, missionary
Nationality..................USA, Greece (dual-status)
Ethnicity.....................Caucasion
Initative......................+2
Hero Points................+2
PL/PP.........................11.5/172

*ABILITIES*
STR....14 (+2)
DEX...14 (+2)
CON...14 (+2)
INT.....18 (+4)
WIS....14 (+2)
CHA...16 (+3)
PP SPENT: 30

SAVES
Fort: 2 + 10= 12. Refl: 2 + 9 = 11.  Will: 2 + 8 =10.  Toughness: (2 abil +14 force field) = 16
PP SPENT: 27

COMBAT
Defense: +6, Attack: +2, +09 ranged = 11, 
PP SPENT: 16

FEATS:
Ranged bonus +09, Luck Bonus +1, Master Plan, Jack of all trades,  Beginners luck
Benefit: Wealth. Wealth Elysia comes from a very wealthy and well-connected family. She herself is a quite successful artist and arcitect. 
PP SPENT: 15

SKILLS
+14 Concentration 3pp spent, +12 Craft Artist 2pp spent, +12 Craft Architecture 2pp spent, +11 Diplomacy 2pp spent, +14 Stealth 3pp spent, +14 Survival 2 pp spent +10 Search 2pp spent, +12 Notice 2pp spent, +15 Gather Information 3pp spent
Knowlege
+12 Tactics 2pp, +12 Earth Sciences 2pp spent,  
PP SPENT: 25

INDEPENDENT POWERS
Force field +14
Regeneration recovery rate 3 bruised, (-1 flaw must be in contact with earth)
Comprehend languages Rank 4 (8pp spent)
PP SPENT: 24

POWER ARRAY 1 RANK 12
Control Earth Rank 12
Control Fire Rank 12
Blast rank 10 (Indirect, variable descriptor to fire and earth attacks)
Earth to mud rank 12
Visual obscure rank 11 (variable)
Snare (movable, tether) rank 10
Deflect (variable with earth and fire, precise, ricochet) rank 9
Ignite Rank 6
Burrowing rank 10
Melt rank 12
Continuous Shape Stone (precise, innate) rank 3 
Earth's Voice Rank 6: Elysia can hear the vibrations of people moving about the earth around her so clearly that she can accurately build up a mental picture of what's going on. Treat it as ESP rank 7 (sight and hearing), with a -1 flaw that she must be in contact with the earth. 
PP SPENT: 35


*BACK GROUND*
Elysia comes from a powerful and wealthy family of mutants. Both of her parents are missonaries, using their wealth and powers to help impoverished and stricken countries like Ethiopia. Her father is a native of Greece, her mother is a United States citizen and Elysia was born in the US, giving her a dual-status in both countries. Growing up in Ethiopia, she developed her powers early and was trained in them practically since she could toddle upright. When Barrington's forces started to invade Ethiopia, her parents stood up to fight, but were greviously injured and evacuated. Elysia chose to stay, using her knowledge of the area and her own abilities to confound and delay the enemy, earning her the nickname Dambudzo or Trouble.

Her basic ability is telikensis, which she uses to manipulate fire and earth and associated effects. This is because her doctor father is a powerful telikenetic and fire controller and her botanist mother is a powerful earth/plant controller. Way back on her mother's side of the family, there were several strong telepaths, however, in her, this ability is latent, but it's enough to give her the ability to communicate with intelligent creatures as well as being able to understand any written language


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## DM_Matt (Jan 5, 2009)

This character really needs some work.  You have WAY too many Aps.  You wont use them nearly often enough.  Also, you don't get much from them being Dynamic, since usually you'll be powering  down your attacks to keep some other thing working, and thats bad.  The multople arrays (one for attack and one for utility, plus maybe separate passive powers on their own) used for Hope are the way to go here.  You might just be trying to do too much.  You might wants to have a narrower theme than ALL elements, or at least a stylistic preference.

EDIT: Also, look at other builds in the group and  at ATT, and switch to a more appropriate format for displaying your stats.


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## Victim (Jan 5, 2009)

You have 23 powers that can go up to rank 11, and 5 out of six stats at 18 or higher.  What are your character's weaknesses?  And how many of those powers are you actually going to use?

The first power in the array is Area Burst with no base power.

You're not paying for the Dynamic Alternate powers properly either.  A rank 11 array costs 22 points, plus 1 to make first power dynamic.  So 23 points.  And then each DAP costs 2, and you have 22 of those..  So that's 67 points, 44.


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## Hammerhead (Jan 5, 2009)

You also seem to have multiple ranks of the Wealth feat. I believe that this game (and every other M&M game I've been in ) dispenses with their clumsy system and replaces it with a Benefit: Wealth. 

Also, you have Comprehend 4, which is interesting, because nothing in your characters powers suggests that kind of ability. Also, Comprehend 4 costs 8 points, but you only need Comprehend 2 for all languages. For the same price as Comprehend 2, you could learn more languages though skill points than you'd ever really be likely to need.


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## kirinke (Jan 6, 2009)

Okay, shifted it up a little.

As you can see, her basic ability is telikensis, which she uses to manipulate fire and earth and associated effects. This is because her doctor father is a powerful telikenetic and fire controller and her botanist mother is a powerful earth/plant controller. Way back on her mother's side of the family, there were several strong telepaths, however, in her, this ability is latent, but it's enough to give her the ability to communicate with intelligent creatures and understand the written word. 


Eventually, she'll learn how to control air and water. But not at the moment. So, thoughts?


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## Victim (Jan 6, 2009)

Selective should be an extra on Obscure, so ranks on that should drop.

She's significantly under PL with Defense 15, Toughness +11 and +10 ranged attack with a lot of level 10 or lower attacks.

Your immunity doesn't have enough ranks to protect against attacks.  Fire damage is 5 points by itself.

Flight 8 seems really fast, especially since we have teleports and jets for long distance travel.  And you don't have any other movement related abilities to take advantage of it.


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## Elric (Jan 6, 2009)

Victim said:


> Selective should be an extra on Obscure, so ranks on that should drop.




You also don't have the sense type of the Obscure listed.  In general, Selective Visual Obscure is incredibly powerful and besides the fact it's part of your main attack array, I doubt Matt would let you take it (see: not wanting Apollo to have Invisibility back in the day).


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## kirinke (Jan 6, 2009)

Alrighty, I changed it again, giving her some alternate forms to go along with the theme of fire and earth. As I read the alternate form power, every power point you spend, gives you 5 points to spend on effects associated with the powers. So I sort of followed the Neried example under the alternate form power.

I gave her 3 alternate forms in an array, one that's solid rock, a particulate form and a pure fire form. Because I gave her a rank 10 in alternate form, she has 50 points to spend per alternate form in the array, if I read it right.
I have 1 pp left for fun and games.


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## Elric (Jan 6, 2009)

kirinke said:


> Alrighty, I changed it again, giving her some alternate forms to go along with the theme of fire and earth. As I read the alternate form power, every power point you spend, gives you 5 points to spend on effects associated with the powers. So I sort of followed the Neried example under the alternate form power.




No, it's 5 pp spent on Alternate Form gets you 5 points to spend on the Alternate Form.  

What is the great limitation of having an alternate form that would lead you to believe 1 pp spent by your character gets you 5 pp inside the Alternate Form?


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## kirinke (Jan 6, 2009)

Elric said:


> No, it's 5 pp spent on Alternate Form gets you 5 points to spend on the Alternate Form.
> 
> What is the great limitation of having an alternate form that would lead you to believe 1 pp spent by your character gets you 5 pp inside the Alternate Form?




I misread the example. Changed it again, keeping in theme with her basic powers.
In her independent powers, I gave her regeneration 5 life support and bruised/unconscious with the flaw that she must be in contact with some sort of earth and superstrength 3


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## Victim (Jan 6, 2009)

Toughness: 4 Con +12 Force field = 16 Toughness, not 15.  But that should still be within PL limits with +6 defense, assuming that the large tradeoff is allowed.

Defense 6, Attack +2 costs 16 points, not 14.

Regeneration KO?  That seems unlikely.  The second regen slot doesn't mention which recovery rates are being improved.  IIRC, DM_Matt has also frowned on regeneration in arrays before too.

With 14 APs, the cost of your main array should be 34, not 33.

Why is the utility array rank 7?  You have like 7 points of powers in there at a time.  Cost is also wrong for a rank 7 array (but it is correct for a rank 4 array, which covers your needs).



kirinke said:


> [sblock]
> Here is the prelim build mark 3
> Character Name..........Titha Akanth (Fire Thorn), locally nick-named by the bad-guys Dambudzo (Trouble)
> Concept......................Elementalist
> ...


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## kirinke (Jan 6, 2009)

I noticed the error right before you remarked on it, so I shifted them to the independant powers and powered the regeneration down from 5 to 4. This is in keeping with her earth and fire based abilities (though leaning more to her earth based powers than fire). I figured I really wouldn't need burrowing or anything like that anytime soon, so I took that out.


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## DM_Matt (Jan 6, 2009)

1.  Those stats are very high.  Know that you are paying a point premium for that, as stats tend not to be so efficient.

2. That Will save is a little low.  You might want to bump it up a little.

3. Your feats are a real mess.  Critical Strike requires favored enemy and only works against said enemies.  Improved Aim, really?   Thats a sniper's feat.  Its for taking aiming actions.  Is that what you are going for here?  Connected/Contacts/Well-Informed?  You live in Ethiopia.  Also, the diplomacy and gather info rolls tat two of those run off aren't that high for you. Seixe Initiative?  Thats a speedster feat.  I don't see it fitting into this concept.

4. Skills:  You have a lot of them, but aren't all that great at any, except maybe Medicine.  Your concentration is low.  When stunned, you need to make a DC22 concentration check or lose your force field.

5.  I'm not clear why you have full life support. Also, no regen from unconscious.

6. Powers - still too many, and some are  bit redundant or too weak.  Earth and Fire Control are just TK with LimitedEarth or Fire), but you have both AND TK.  Perhaps though you should JUST have earth and fire control and NOT generic TK, conceptually.  Otherwise, just take TK. Your attack powers are still below caps.  I suggest you slim your powers (like that nullify electronics...that there looks like a power stunt), and increase the number of PP in the array to strengthen them.  At minimum, you should make your offensive caps.


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## Victim (Jan 6, 2009)

kirinke said:


> [sblock]
> Here is the prelim build mark 3
> Character Name..........Titha Akanth (Fire Thorn), locally nick-named by the bad-guys Dambudzo (Trouble)
> Concept......................Elementalist
> ...




The Indirect, variable, area blast doesn't fit into the array since it costs 26 (3x8=24+2=26) in a twenty point array.  Put a flaw like Full Round or Distracting on something like this so it fits with more ranks.

The create object also costs too much (3x6=18+3 power feats = 21).  Probably drop a power feat to bring the cost down.

Or you could buy a bigger array.

You need to specify where the regeneration is going inside each bruised/KO and injured/staggered categories  (eg, bruised rate 3, KO rate 1, injured rate 2, staggered rate 2).  And I've been under the impression that regen from unconsciousness is not being allowed.


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## kirinke (Jan 6, 2009)

Alrighty. It's looking better, but as you said, needs work.


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## Victim (Jan 6, 2009)

DM_Matt said:


> Seize Initiative?  Thats a speedster feat.  I don't see it fitting into this concept.




It seems more like an anti-speedster feat to me, since speedsters usually beat pretty much everyone on pure bonus.


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## kirinke (Jan 6, 2009)

Victim said:


> It seems more like an anti-speedster feat to me, since speedsters usually beat pretty much everyone on pure bonus.




Took it out, but it is true lol. Basically it's the proverbial lucky shot in action


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## Victim (Jan 6, 2009)

The create object doesn't fit in the array (3/rank x 10 ranks+1= 31).

Burrowing 11 lets you move through solid rock at 500 mph or through soil @2500mph.  Without taking into account double moves and accelerated movement.  That seems strangely fast.  And what does Selective do on a movement power?

Since you seem to be aiming at Fort +11, dropping Con isn't actually saving you any points.

Hide in Plain Sight seems freakishly good.

Defense +8 and base attack +2 costs 20 points, not 16.

I'm not really following your skill points.  (Craft Artistic +14 requires 2.5 points, not 3.  Diplomacy and Gather Info don't seem right for the points allocated and stat bonus either).  

Recovery rate on bruises maxes out at 3.

You don't seem to be paying for regeneration, since you have 13 points supposedly spent on independent powers and an unflawed forcefield 13.

You dropped Comprehend from your independent powers but still mention it in the background.  Without comprehend, you might want to buy some languages.

It really helps if you list what your powers do, instead of just naming them (nova blast, magma eruption...).

If moveable on Snare is an extra, as it is on CO, then that power costs too much for the array as well.

With two extras on Deflect, it's not going to fit in the array either.  

13 APs on a 24 point array costs 37, not 35.

Maybe Episode 4: A new Hope will turn out better than the mark 3 version.



kirinke said:


> [sblock]
> 
> Here is the prelim build mark 3
> Character Name..........Titha Akanth (Fire Thorn), locally nick-named by the bad-guys Dambudzo (Trouble)
> ...


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## kirinke (Jan 6, 2009)

Victim said:


> The create object doesn't fit in the array (3/rank x 10 ranks+1= 31).
> 
> Burrowing 11 lets you move through solid rock at 500 mph or through soil @2500mph.  Without taking into account double moves and accelerated movement.  That seems strangely fast.  And what does Selective do on a movement power?
> 
> ...





You get 4 skill ranks per each power point. 
Craft artistic +4 abil mod +8ranks = 12... eeep.....
Am changing that as soon as. 

Shifted and changed some powers, feats and skills, so I could give her comprehend 4 and added the points on the indepedent powers.

And before I forget....
*groans at the New Hope pun and slaps Victim upside the head with a rolled up newspaper.

Bad pun. Bad!


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## Victim (Jan 7, 2009)

Diplomacy and Gather Info should be +11 with 16 CHA.

Independent powers are still miscosted.  15 Force Field.  8 Comprehend.  That leave negative one points to buy regeneration and your immunities.

Magma Eruption or Nova Blast is what powers/extras again?

Defense/Toughness is under PL for level 11.



kirinke said:


> [sblock]
> 
> *ABILITIES*
> STR....14 (+2)
> ...


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## kirinke (Jan 7, 2009)

Victim said:


> Diplomacy and Gather Info should be +11 with 16 CHA.
> 
> Independent powers are still miscosted.  15 Force Field.  8 Comprehend.  That leave negative one points to buy regeneration and your immunities.
> 
> ...




Changed gather information/diplomacy

It's 14 force field + 2 constitution which comes out to 16. 
Took out regrowth from her regeneration, giving her an extra pp to spend (so when calculated pp spent on her independent powers, it does come out to 24) and took out Nova blast. Also took a point from her ranged attack bonus, as she doesn't have any attack over rank 11, so it seems silly to give her an extra point where it's not needed.


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## Victim (Jan 7, 2009)

kirinke said:


> Changed gather information/diplomacy
> 
> It's 14 force field + 2 constitution which comes out to 16.
> Took out regrowth from her regeneration, giving her an extra pp to spend (so when calculated pp spent on her independent powers, it does come out to 24) and took out Nova blast. Also took a point from her ranged attack bonus, as she doesn't have any attack over rank 11, so it seems silly to give her an extra point where it's not needed.




As you can see in my quote, it was forcefield 13 when I wrote that.

You already have Blast 11 with an open point in the array, why are you buying it again with a different name?


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## kirinke (Jan 7, 2009)

Victim said:


> As you can see in my quote, it was forcefield 13 when I wrote that.
> 
> You already have Blast 11 with an open point in the array, why are you buying it again with a different name?





Lol. Misunderstandings all around. You're right on the magma blast, shifted it for Nova blast, which is a bit like an area blast only centered around the person. On second thought, I'm taking that out. It's... too powerful and more than likely to hurt her team-mates as well as the enemy. I'm thinking on giving her ESP with the flaw of having to be in contact with earth, sort of like tremor sense, but the vibrations give her a very clear picture of what's going on.


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## Victim (Jan 10, 2009)

New thread here, in case anyone missed it: 

The Atomic Think Tank :: View topic - S.H.O.T.T. ATT OOC


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jan 13, 2009)

Are we moving the character threads as well?  If so, where should I post Wren?  Also, Matt, I was debating on removing the BLAST attack I have, as it's NEVER used.  I think when/if it is ever used, it would be a power stunt.  Is it possible to edit that for another AP?  Thanks!


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