# Wall of Fire, insanely good damage spell??



## Zelc (Dec 27, 2007)

> Wall of Fire
> Evocation [Fire]
> Level: 	Drd 5, Fire 4, Sor/Wiz 4
> Components: 	V, S, M/DF
> ...



So, let's say a creature passes through the wall multiple times during the same round.  Imagine the Wall cutting directly through the middle of a slalom skiing course.  The poor skier has to cut through the wall multiple times in six seconds.  By RAW, does he take damage every time he passes through the wall?  What if he runs (or skis, I guess) down the length of the wall?

Common sense would say that yes, they'd take damage every time they walk into a section of the wall.  But I'm worried about the game balance implications.  Behold:

B = Bob the level 7 Orcish Barbarian
W = Willy the level 7 Elvish Wizard
f = Wall of Fire

B..........W

Bob and Willy meet in the forest.  Bob and Willy don't like each other.

Willy: Yay, I won initiative.  I ready an action!
Bob: Grraaaww!  Bob charge!  Bob Leap Attack!
Willy: My readied action goes off, and I cast Wall of Fire!

BffffffffffW

2d6+7 damage

fBfffffffffW

2d6+7 damage

ffBffffffffW

2d6+7 damage

fffBfffffffW

2d6+7 damage

And so on.  Bob ends up taking 11x (2d6+7) damage, of course with reflex saves for half on each of them individually.  He's probably toast.

Did I get that right?  Is Wall of Fire, by RAW, the best damage spell ever against charging opponents?


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## frankthedm (Dec 27, 2007)

IIRC Damage is dealt once per round per damaging wall, rather than per square of a given wall.

Plus you have not passed through until you exit the wall.


Heck, I'm still a little unshure of how one places a wall of fire onto the combat grid... http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=188877

In general, I’d hazard *a guess *these spells ”might” follow the rules for lines, but it looks like a few questions pop up even with that ‘line’ of reasoning.



			
				Wall of fire said:
			
		

> One side of the wall, selected by you, sends forth waves of heat, dealing 2d4 points of fire damage to creatures within 10 feet and 1d4 points of fire damage to those past 10 feet but within 20 feet. The wall deals this damage when it appears and on your turn each round to all creatures in the area. In addition, the wall deals 2d6 points of fire damage +1 point of fire damage per caster level (maximum +20) to any creature passing through it. The wall deals double damage to undead creatures.
> 
> If you evoke the wall so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall.




_*Shooting the ‘line’ down between squares on a grid*_ A, B, C or D?




A: The Line counts the squares it touches as being in the wall of fire, but only does damage in one direction. The squares affected by the heat of the wall have their distance counted from the squares ’’on fire’

B. The Line counts the squares it touches as being in the wall of fire, but the heat only extends in one direction. The squares affected by the heat of the wall have their distance counted from the squares ’’on fire’

C: The Line counts the squares it touches as being in the wall of fire, but only does damage in one direction. The squares affected by the heat of the wall have their distance counted from the Line that made the wall of fire.

D: The Line counts the squares it actually passes though. as being in the wall of fire. The squares affected by the heat of the wall have their distance counted from the Line that made the wall of fire.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>





1. Count heat distance from the squares the line passed through

2. Count heat distance i_ncluding_ the square being burned.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now the radii version is actually simpler in one way since that locks it's placement, unlike a line. exact distance from the centerand no way to cut into a medium creatures space. But still, i'm still not sure which of these are right.


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## Zelc (Dec 27, 2007)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> IIRC Damage is dealt once per round per wall, rather than per square of a given wall.



Well, it mentions that the "radiation" damage is dealt once per round on your turn, but that sentence is before the part where it talks about damage for passing through the wall.



> Plus you have not passed trough until you exit the wall.



Hmm... that's a workable interpretation.


EDIT: Oh wow, placement is a problem   .


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## Zelc (Dec 27, 2007)

I think Wind Wall might illuminate how Wall of Fire works.


> Wind Wall
> Evocation [Air]
> Level: 	Air 2, Clr 3, Drd 3, Rgr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
> Components: 	V, S, M/DF
> ...



I think this lends credence to the single line, no squares placement of Wall of Fire.  Otherwise, you can put a Wind Wall on top of a tiny flying creature and they'll just be stuck because they can't "pass through" it.  Similarly, if you could fire "any other normal ranged weapon" down the length of one and both the shooter and the target are standing in the wall, it wouldn't suffer the penalty.  Thoughts?


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 27, 2007)

Regardless of common sense approaches to positioning and causing damage with the spell, it is still insanely brilliant against undead (effectively doing 4d6 + 2*caster level vs undead. At 13th level an empowered wall of fire could do effectively 6d6 +39 (~=60) to any undead that passes through it with no save. Say hello to bull rush, grapple and pin and so forth (especially if an arcane caster has telekinesis available to do those manoeuvres with!)

Cheers


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## Deset Gled (Dec 27, 2007)

Zelc said:
			
		

> And so on.  Bob ends up taking 11x (2d6+7) damage, of course with reflex saves for half on each of them individually.  He's probably toast.




Ignoring the issues others have brought up about only taking damage once per round, and the placement problems, why couldn't Bob just stop moving?

IME, Fire Wall is a great control spell, but isn't particularly powerful in terms of damage unless you have something forcing characters the move through it, like a powerful McGuffin that must be reached, an enlarged Dragon Disciple with Improved Bull Rush, or pretty stupid enemies.


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## Zelc (Dec 28, 2007)

Deset Gled said:
			
		

> Ignoring the issues others have brought up about only taking damage once per round, and the placement problems, why couldn't Bob just stop moving?



He's in the middle of a charge, and in this case a jumping charge.  Can you interrupt your own charge halfway through and do something else?  Maybe.  Can you interrupt a jump halfway through?  Uhm.

Also, it's easier than you think to force someone to go down the length of one of these.  See Telekinesis, for instance.


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## Twowolves (Dec 28, 2007)

In 1st ed, the Druid version of the wall had a duration of concentration OR 1 round per level, and moved with the caster. It was the druidic anti-undead (specifically anti-vampire) spell. Cast it and then shapshift into a fast moving bird and fly the wall through the undead multiple times. Bonus points for mummies and any other undead that specifically take double damage from fire (like gaseous vampires).


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## Nail (Dec 28, 2007)

Blade Barrier has the same issues.

Playing a Clr, I used BB + Summon Elemental Monolith (Air) to great effect.  Instant Cuisinart.


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