# Star Wars Spoiler Thread



## tricsterpriest (May 16, 2002)

If you want to say how cool everything was, post in this thread, because here we'll be free to post spoilers.  Don't read this if you haven't seen the movie.


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## RangerWickett (May 16, 2002)

Whoo!  Alright, I'll admit there was no chemistry between Amidala and Anakin at first, but at the end I honestly think it came across as if they cared for each other.  Since that was the main thing I was worried about, and it wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting it to be, I'm incredibly pleased with the movie.

I went with a big group of friends, and we all thought it was incredible.  Of course, we're all into Hong Kong Kung Fu action movies, so perhaps we were more dazzled by the combat than by the story, but just the pacing and storytelling in the action sequences was incredible.  Hell, the whole audience began shouting, clapping, and cheering just when they saw Yoda's silhouette coming around the corner at the end with Dooku.  We knew there was gonna be an ***-kicking coming.

And yay, they didn't kill off any of the main characters and turn them into clones!  This movie was great (though not without its faults).  It started okay (too bad Jar Jar wasn't on that ship that blew up, eh?), and hit a snag with the whole romance thing, but at the end, (and in all the scenes with Ewan MacGregor), I thought it was great.

Only drawback is that there goes the theory that Ben Kenobi is actually Anakin Skywalker, and Darth Vader is actually Obi-Wan.  But that's no loss.  I just wonder how well people who don't love action scenes will respond to the movie.  There might not have been enough depth, but I thought the action scenes had no serious flaws.

Dare I say it?  Aye, I shall:

It rocked.


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## Geo (May 16, 2002)

Spoilers
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Yoda is very strong in the pimp.  So is Anakin!!  heh, no seriously, I loved the fact that Anakin was strong with the physical form of the force, much like he is as vader, and Oh-B-Wan, (how do you spell that) is much into the mental form of the Force, as he is in EPIV.  Yoda, wow, how powerful is he, jeez.  His force skills are amazing, yes we know he can lift large starfighters, but he can whip dark jedi's butts at Lightsaber combat.  So who wants to bet good money that Boba Fett will help in the Jedi Purge?  Also, Windu is kick ass, very samarai like.  Overall, I feel that my money was spent for the scenes where the Jedi do stuff, Jango does stuff, the kick ass battle at the end, and the scene where Anakin loses it.  Very powerful stuff.  Also, real quick, did anyone else notice that Anakin really kicked the crap out of the insectoids?  Instead of cutting off an arm or something, he cut them completely down the middle.  Vicious.  Also, I wonder where R2 loses his jet boosters.  It really makes a lot of sense for him to have it, they are mechanic droids.  Also, how cool was the asteroid fight scene?  Kickback to Empire!  phew, that's all I got for now.


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## Corinth (May 16, 2002)

I'm in the throws of a dorkgasm.  I'll rant about it later in depth, I hope, but for now I'll comment only a few things:

Jar Jar's finally made into a truly tragic character when he takes to heart Padme's charge to him before she leaves Coruscant.  This, coupled with his life-long ache for positive attention, makes his play into Palpatine's plans perfectly.
Dooku's use of the truth as a weapon against the Jedi is both brilliant and truly evil, as he knew that Obi-Wan wouldn't believe him.  This sort of villainy was missing in TPM.
Realizing that Anakin's actions result, later on, in the death of the very people that his mother loved as her own children hit me something fierce.
The clone army's use of the same rank and command scheme as the droid army of TPM, along with the use of Imperial insignia, shocked the hell out of me as I saw Yoda leading them into the fray.
This film truly felt like the space operas of old.  That is a very, very good thing and the crtics who say otherwise can go to hell.


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## UD (May 16, 2002)

Everyone laughed when yoda did the almost matrix like thing with his hands and threw back his coat to reveal a  lightsaber. but we were soon silenced and how to admit that yoda, is indeed, very powerful in the force, and size mattters not.

OMG!

Sorry I keep think of the film and all the little things like the empire like troops and vechicles.

The clever way in which Palpatine is throwing both sides on which he has a grasp against each other.

Anakin did bug me slightly, but he did make up for it, he does play anakins fall into the dark side exceptionally well.


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## Gez (May 16, 2002)

Now that you've all seen how munchkin Yoda is, you'll be all playing gnomes, right ?


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## KDLadage (May 16, 2002)

*The critics can kiss my butt...*

*WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD*
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I loved this film. This *IS* the return to the glory days of Star Wars. Some of the things I thought were truly exceptional:
 The relationship between Anakin and Padme. Yes, some have stated that the dialog was stilted. To me, it sounded like two children that were forced to grow up too soon trying to capture thier feelings in words that were beyond thier years. It was cliche? Yes. It was stiffly delivered? Yes. It was appropriate? Hell yes.
 Jango Fett and the storyling that leads to the creation of 'Bounty Hunter' Boba Fett -- this was rather odd for me. In fact, it is this whole story line that now makes the relationship between Darth Vader and Boba Fett make so much since in the later films. I always thought it odd that Boba was the only guy that could talk back to Vader and live through it... now I know why.
 Padme... like mother like daughter. Let's face it kids, the Princess of the original trilogy is a carbon copy of her mother. And this my friends, is a wonderful thing to see. It is also obvious they have the same taste in men -- they like the dark and dangerous types...
 Jar Jar... man, what can I say, but it is Jar Jar that seals the fate of the Republic, ushering in the new era of Empire. This makes his bafoonery in Ep-I all the more acceptable. And needed. You need to see how he is a kind-hearted but very foolish sort. He is. And it is exactly what Palpatine needed. He plays Jar Jar like a flute, and Jar Jar is all too willing to be played. Of course, he has no idea it's happening...
 Yoda... HOLY COW DUDE, this guy is one tough cookie. You have never seen anyone fight with the ferocity that he has. Nobody. They Master has more than earned that title.
 Mace Windu (Sam Jackson) is perfectly cast, perfectly written and perfectly played. He is the exact sort of Jedi Master I wuold aspire to be, if I were a character in the Star Wars movies.
 And the most amazing thing (IMHO): the admission that the Jedi Order are loosing thier ability to control the powers of the Force. This was something I did not see coming. It plays rather well into the whole "re-balance the force" story line. I am beginning to believe that Yoda not only wanted Anakin to fall, he was counting on it. Anakin is the Yin to the Galaxy-wide Jedi Order's Yang (I may have that backwards). I have to wonder if Yoda thought he could balance the force witht he creation of teh ultimate Dark Jedi and then dispose of him, after the Force was balanced -- and then lost control of his little plan... don't know, but we will see in a few years when Ep-III is released... and let me tell you, I simply cannot wait to see it already.

BTW: I saw the Midnight show... I will be seeing it again tonight (or tomorrow), and at least once more this weekend -- I have a lot of friends with conflicting schedules. And this one, I have no problems wanting to see it multiple times.

Like I said, this was a return to the glory days of Star Wars.


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## Lady Starhawk (May 16, 2002)

I just got home from seeing it today.

The first hour? or so was fairly dull IMHO.   About the point where Anakin and Padme get to Tatooine it finally started to gain more of my interest, but I didn't get truly entrapped in the story until they went to rescue Obi-Wan.

I liked the detective work Obi-Wan was doing and finding stuff out about Jango and the clones, but the "Dawson's Creek" episode intermixed in there I could have done without.  I just didn't 'feel' it.  The dialogue was akward and it was sometimes painful to watch.    However I understand that their budding romance was important to show and for it to happen, but it didn't feel right.

I did like Hayden's "evil" look.  I truly believed he was slipping to the dark side, and when he and Padme were talking about how the senate should be run it gave me shivers to hear him say that it should be a dictatorship.  Even if now he has good intentions for all peoples, but it's creepy to think what he will become.

I loved Yoda.  I also got kinda creeped out to see him ride in with the Stormtroopers.  It kinda messes with your head to see the stormtroopers, and the star destroyers at the end as part of the Republic, knowing that they will be used for the empire.  But when Yoda came around the corner after Obi and Anakin were down I sat up and took notice.   The lightsaber battle was kinda odd, and I found myself wondering if I was watching Kermit the Frog, or Yoda.  But the non-lightsaber stuff showed jsut how powerful Yoda was, and the fact that everyone was deferring to him during the whole movie.

It feels all too fitting that Jar-Jar was the one to give the Emperor his power over the senate.  An innocent bumbling character with nothing but good intentions paved the way for the Empire to take control.  So there was a reason for him to have been such a bumbling moron in the last movie, he had to be portrayed in such a way that it he wouldn't be able to be blamed for moving the Emperor into power.

The fact that the Death Star has already been planed was kinda creepy for me too.

3PO and R2 are soooo cool.  IMHO it was the relationship that felt the most real in the whole movie.  I wonder what happens to have R2 loose those rockets, it seems like they would have been handy in the other movies.  3PO's little jokes and comments were priceless and I found myself laughing my butt off, just at a point that the action was getting kinda intense.  IT was great in that respect.  There was some humor, and inside jokes if you're enough of a star wars geek to notice them  (and I am).

So I would say it was better than Phantom Menace, but not nearly as good as the "original" triology.  BUT I am reserving my final judgement until I have seen all 6 movies and have the whole picture.

Laters,
Lady Starhawk


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## Ashrem Bayle (May 16, 2002)

First of all, I LOVED IT!

That said:

What I didn't like:

1. C3P0. He seemd dangerously close to becoming another Jar Jar to me. I didn't care for his one liners at all.
2. Anakin riding the animals. It just struck me as goofy the way he rode those things in the love scene.
3. Didn't show Anakin killing all those Tuskans. I was really excited to see him kick some butt, and then they cut away.
4. Some of the new species I didn't care for.

What I liked:

1. The "car" chase at the beginning.
2. Anakin fighting the insectoids.
3. Anakin using two lightsabers.
4. Most of the love scenes.
5. How they handled Shmi's death and her family.

What I loved:

1. YODA!
2. Anakin losing his arm. That was great.
3. The Stormtroopers.
4. YODA!
5. Jango & Boba Fet. I bet Lucas is kicking himself for having Boba die in such a lack-luster way in RotJ.
6. Mace Windu rocked.
7. YODA!
8. Seeing all the stardestroyers and the plans for the Deathstar.
9. Obi Won's line: "I swear your going to be the death of me."
10. Several other things I'm too excited to remember now.

And yes, seeing Yoda lead the Stormtroopers was kinda creepy.

I suddenly feel compelled to play a halfing psion in my next game.


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## Ashrem Bayle (May 16, 2002)

-self censored-

I have no idea what Wolfspider wrote, but if my post set him off, then I feel it doesn't have a place here.

My apologies.


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## Wolfspider (May 17, 2002)

Self-censored.


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## ~Joseph~ (May 17, 2002)

*You ALL are going to HATE me*

OK, I just got back from the theaters after seeing episode 2, now I did think this movie was better realized, better written, and better acted.  Now with that out of the way......

First: George Lucas needs to hire a writer.  The lines between anikan and amadala were bad, stail, and over used cliches. In ep. 4-6 c3p0 was whiny annoying and obtrusive.  In episode 2 he's just plain DUMB!!  He was never that stupid in the first (second?) 3 movies, I agree he IS turning into another Jar Jar.

Second: Lucas needs to learn how to direct.  Many of the characters were unable to demonstrate the depth that is evident in the lines they were saying.  As above, Ani and Amadala were flat.  Windu was good, but it's Samule L. Jackson FOR GOD'S SAKE!! I think that jango fett and lord Doogu both need to learn how to SHOW EMOTIONS!!!!!  Lord Doogu is a sith lord, they get their power from their passions, (aka Anikin=passion for Amadala=Passion for loss=Passion for hate=Passion for killing all the jedi) he woud be much more emotional.  serface emotions are their strength, he should use it.

Third: Some of the new aliens were cool, I liked the bug dudes and the long neck guys, but most of them need some DEPTH for gods sakes.

Fourth: Lucas needs to stop catering to the supid ideotic masses.  I know that putting petty colors and REALLY bad ideot humer along with stupid one liners will get more people to go to your movie, but chances are they won't come back... Their attention span is too short.  

Now what I liked......

The foreshadowing was cool.  I liked the storm troopers.  Palpatine is the best politition EVER!!!! he's playing both sides against the middle, he's using Jar jar as a puppet for his evil sceme, he's manipulating Anikin into defiance and treatury, and everyone still thinks he's their best friend.  The plot was good and thought out, the Obi-Wan subplot is AWSOME, and the fact that Anikin and Amadala get married at the end is the BEST.

ok just my two cents....


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## RangerWickett (May 17, 2002)

Oh, c'mon folks, chill out.  Who hasn't wanted to punch somebody some time for being really annoying.  Ashrem was just expressing in hyperbole that he finds negative reviews of the movie annoying.  Wolfspider, I hope you don't take Ashrem's comments too seriously.  It's a natural reaction to get defensive when people criticize you or something you care about, and lashing out is a common defense tactic, so all the hateful comments are probably just the result of people being really nervous and guarded with their happiness.  The movie was better than a lot of us expected, and so we're not confident enough to just be happy with how good it was.  We want to make sure we're not making fools of ourselves by liking the movie.  Once we get comfortable, I think people will stop overreacting, and start just smiling again.

It's really not as bad as you seem to think.  When an argument turns ugly, usually the best course of action is just to stop arguing and give everyone a few days to let tempers cool, and to ponder whether it's even worth the effort to keep arguing.

Anyway, I thought you weren't seeing it, Wolfspider.  You shouldn't be reading this thread--you'll see spoilers.


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## Shewolf (May 17, 2002)

*Re: You ALL are going to HATE me*



			
				~Joseph~ said:
			
		

> *OK, I just got back from the theaters after seeing episode 2, now I did think this movie was better realized, better written, and better acted.  Now with that out of the way......
> 
> First: George Lucas needs to hire a writer.  The lines between anikan and amadala were bad, stail, and over used cliches. In ep. 4-6 c3p0 was whiny annoying and obtrusive.  In episode 2 he's just plain DUMB!!  He was never that stupid in the first (second?) 3 movies, I agree he IS turning into another Jar Jar.
> 
> ...




Maybe it's just me - I actually enjoyed the movie, although I didn't go in expecting much after TPM.  

But if you want to talk about the "supid ideotic masses" you might want to consider a spell checker.

But that's just my two cents...

Shewolf


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## NewbyDM (May 17, 2002)

the movies was ok 

The best part was when the movie got romantic, they started kissing... and the shot after that Anakin was in his bed (dreaming) screaming NO!...NO!....NO!!!.... the timing was great..... (immature me  ) And someone besides me whispered... OH NO! tupac!! o what the hell... (if you know what i mean)

Anyway, besides that, the Action scenes were good IMO...

And YODA made everyone laugh... he was very cool with his kung-fu stance!

R.


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## EricNoah (May 17, 2002)

Jar Jar made a big error in judgement.  I wonder if we get to see him redeem himself?  Or is that too much to fit into Ep III.  Come to think of it, there's a HECK of a lot of stuff to fit into Ep III.  

I wonder where that story will end...  right after the kids are split up and hidden?


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## Black Omega (May 17, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Jar Jar made a big error in judgement.  I wonder if we get to see him redeem himself?  Or is that too much to fit into Ep III.  Come to think of it, there's a HECK of a lot of stuff to fit into Ep III.
> 
> I wonder where that story will end...  right after the kids are split up and hidden? *



I can just imagine the story ending just a little after that battle between Darth Anakin and Obi-wan Kenobi where Anakin ends up in the volcano.  Assuming Lucas is not changing the story here.

This way you can end with the kids being hidden.  And with Anakin being fitted for the Darth Vader armor as the Imperial March plays.  The final bit being a close up of Darth Vader turning to face the camera, that raspy breathing we know so well, then the fade to credits.


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## CrazyMage (May 17, 2002)

*RE: Balance in the Force*

Star Wars Tales (for those of you who don't know) is a series of comics from Dark Horse that has shorter stories that wouldn't fit a full comic by themselves or stories that are a little "off-beat".  Usually 4 or 5 stories in each issue.  I believe there is a bound volume that collects the first few issues.

Anyhow, issue 7 has a story by Kevin Rubio (of Troops fame) that has Yoda and Mace at a restaurant (ala scene from Pulp Fiction)discussing the training of Anakin and the matter of balance in the Force.  Mace uses the illustration of adding milk to coffee--balance when they are mixed.  Yoda replies with the illustration of a pile of salt (the jedi) with two grains separate (the Sith).  He sweeps away the pile of salt until only two grains remain.  That is also balance, and that is the balance we're heading for in the series.

If nothing else, you should check out this issue for the hilarious image of Yoda in a booster seat at the diner.


Almost felt sorry for Jar-Jar this time around.  Poor pawn...


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## Black Omega (May 17, 2002)

*Re: RE: Balance in the Force*



			
				CrazyMage said:
			
		

> *Almost felt sorry for Jar-Jar this time around.  Poor pawn... *



Then am I the only one wondering what Amidala must have been smoking to leave senatorial authority with Jar Jar?


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## Orco42 (May 17, 2002)

I was really upset that they did not let you know the truth about jar jar. 

http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-jarjartruth.html


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## ayrwind (May 17, 2002)

is it just me, or did the relationship between R2 and C-3PO appeared to be a little gay?

my friends and i had a good laf over how they behaved and such...


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## Bard Lucian (May 17, 2002)

My first thought is that they'd better be filming Christopher Lee's scenes for the next movie RIGHT NOW! The man's almost 80 for God's sake!

Ok, acting, very bad. Visuals, very good. Obi Wan was excellent, as was Mace Windu. And, of course, YODA!

However, this bothers me -- first, Owen Lars, at the beginning of ep. 4 buys these two droids from the Jawas, and one of them is named C-3PO. Did it never occur to him when 3po comes back into his life that this is a bad omen? Or that there is a connection between this R2 unit that he sees and the one that mentioned Obi Wan all those years ago?

And furthermore, in Ep. 6, Obi Wan tells luke that he hid him with HIS (Obi Wan's) Brother, not Anikan's 1/2 brother. Why the continuing deception from Obi Wan? And where does he ever find out about Owen and Beru anyway? I can only conclude that it is Padme's idea to hide Luke with them, not Obi Wan's, so why does he lie to Luke AGAIN? I dunno, I think this lends support to the Obi Wan is Vader hypothesis.


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## Napftor (May 17, 2002)

Just saw it.  Not bad, not bad at all.

Someone stated that the first half was slow but the rest made up for it.  To be fair, the first half certainly had its high points.  It was cool to see R2 guarding Amidala and then highly exciting when Obi-Wan jumped through the window to grab that robot thingie.

And let's not forget Jango.  When I saw his armor in the shadows I got all jittery (in a good way).  It was great to see him use all his tools before Mace hacked off the 'ol cranium.  And then there's, Mace.  Not much for the dialogue bits in the first half, but he more than redeemed himself in the final battle.

I'll let everyone's comments about the great bits speak for themselves and hit on other things I liked besides YODA and Mace and tragic Jar-Jar...

*The unnamed Jedi attempts to take down Dooku and Jango blasts him off the balcony.  Whoa!
*Anakin losing arm (already mentioned but worth mentioning again)/Obi-Wan getting singed
*Force lightning!  I knew it was in the movie but had forgotten until Dooku released it.  Yikes!
*Less talking about the force and more USING it!
*Full use of the Imperial March!
*Dooku's curved lightsaber grip
*The assault ship behind the main characters that gets blown up (full of Jedi?  I like to think so!)

I'm afraid the love bits just didn't work for me though.  I certainly see and feel the anger after Shmi's death but there was little reason for love to blossom (at least on Amidala's side).  Was it necessary?  Sure.  Did it detract from the overall movie experience.  Afraid so.  But "Attack of the Clones" is definitely worth the price of admission and then some.


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## Bagpuss (May 17, 2002)

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *First of all, I LOVED IT!
> 
> That said:
> 
> ...




Yes Anakin slaughtering defenceless women and children, that will help keep the PG rating I'm sure.


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## Welverin (May 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by EricNoah _*I wonder where that story will end...  right after the kids are split up and hidden? *




Likely it will have to be since Episode 3 is only two years after E2, with twenty between 3 and 4. So unless E3 covers a long span of time it will around Amidala getting pregnant and her giving birth.

It was pretty neat seeing that Yoda was able to sense Anakin?s all the way out on Tatooine.

One last thing, I remember reading a while ago that James Earl Jones is supposed to reprise his role as the voice of Vader, so we should definitely get to see Vader by the end of Episode 3.


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## KDLadage (May 17, 2002)

> It was pretty neat seeing that Yoda was able to sense Anakin's all the way out on Tatooine.




I read a nasty rumor that the voice yelling "No Anakin, NO!" as he starts slaughtering the Sand People is actually that of Liam Neeson (Qui Gon).

I watched the film a second time and cannot say for sure.

Anyone here know anything more about that?


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## hong (May 17, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Jar Jar made a big error in judgement.  I wonder if we get to see him redeem himself?  Or is that too much to fit into Ep III.  *





```
[color=orange]
=== RESPOT RESTOP REPOST ===
From: [email]spog@jwgh.org[/email] (Jacob W. Haller)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Lucas on Jar Jar
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 18:13:28 -0400

David Bromage <dbromage@omni.com.au> wrote:

[. . .]
> Still on topic, where do I sign up to join the "People's Popular Front
> for the Promotion of Jar-Jar Binks Suffering a Spectacular Death in
> Episode 3"?

One of my many correspondents writes:

==============================================
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:22:40 -0400
From: C*** M********** <c***@W***.C**>
Subject: The redemption of Jar Jar
To: GAS-LOVERS@H***.E***.L****.C**

At 10:30 AM 4/20/00 -0400, you wrote:

>> Thank you for listening.  Say, did I ever tell you my ideas for the
>> redemption of Jar Jar Binks?
>
>Jar Jar died for your sins!

Well, that's what we're all hoping, of course.  But it's not enough.
First he has to be made to suffer.  And I say this, not just because I
dislike Jar Jar, but because it would deepen the character.  Jar Jar has
to die at exactly the moment when we no longer want him to, for that
alone would give his earlier purposeless and annoying behavior some kind
of meaning.

(Side note: Jar Jar reminds me of the Wogglebug from the Oz books.  The
Wogglebug didn't have any pourpose in the story other than to stand
around making lame puns.  He was fairly unique for his utter uselessness
and irrelevance; everyone else in a typical Oz story has some particular
skill or property that proves essential to the quest at hand.)

Anyway, here's my plan for Jar Jar's redemption:

First of all, Jar Jar has to become Naboo's representative to the
Galactic Senate.  It makes sense when you think about it: the planet is
now under Gungan rule, so naturally Boss Nass wants to put a Gungan in
the position.  From his point of view, it also neatly solves the problem
of what to do with Jar Jar. Nass knows that Jar Jar is an idiot and a
liability to everyone around him - I imagine that he was sent to the
front in Ep. 1 in the hopes that he'd never return - but he's also a war
hero now, and well-liked among the other Gungans (most of whom have
never met him).  An ambassadorial position is a perfect solution: it
satisfies everyone (including Jar Jar, the idiot) that he's being
rewarded for his services, and at the same time keeps him far away from
the day-to-day running of the Gungan state.

So Jar Jar is in the Senate.  He's a few years older now, and is
beginning to fill out - he doesn't look like Boss Nass yet, but he's
definitely on that road.  He's become extremely self-conscious.  He's
trying his best to conform, but his ignorance of custom combines with
his natural awkwardness to defeat him at every turn.  He visibly
struggles to control his accent when speaking to other representatives.
He makes outlandish faux pas and looks genuinely mortified afterwards.
(Can you imagine Jar Jar looking mortified?  I'm not talking about a
sheepish smile, I'm talking a real "Oh my god, what have I done" look,
like Woody in Toy Story when he knocked Buzz out the window.  That alone
makes the entire scheme worth it.)  Jar Jar has only one friend in the
whole Senate: the former Naboo representative who did so much to help
Jar Jar's friends in the past, Chancellor Palpatine.

Palpatine, of course, realizes that the inordinate trust Jar Jar places
in him makes him easily manipulable, and so he preserves the conditions
that make him Jar Jar's only friend.  He realizes that Jar Jar would be
better off flaunting his ethnicity (think of Ben Franklin in France,
winning support by playing the rustic American) rather than trying and
failing to be like everyone else, so he encourages him to try to be like
everyone else.  When Jar Jar points out the respect and even awe
accorded to the Wookiee senator (an old, white-furred specimen,
resplendent in traditional Wookiee ceremonial garb),  Palpatine claims
that it's only because Wookiees have been in the senate for a long time
that their eccentricities are tolerated.  Jar Jar, incedentally, is
wearing an old-fashioned three-piece suit that makes him look even more
froglike and grotesque than he already does.

On the senate floor, whenever someone subtly mocks or insults Jar Jar,
Palpatine sticks up for him.  This makes Palpatine look like a hero, and
at the same time makes people resent Jar Jar's favored position.  How
can Jar Jar be anything but grateful?

Palpatine assures Jar Jar that his efforts to fit in are working, and
that people are starting to warm to him.  Jar Jar is well aware that
he's derided and reviled behind his back, but he trusts Palpatine's
words more than he trusts his own perceptions.  At night, he cries
himself to sleep.  He could really use a friendly ear to pour out his
troubles to, but he thinks he already has one in Palpatine, who's really
good at belittling his problems without seeming to.

Eventually, the scales fall from Jar Jar's eyes.  I don't know how;
perhaps he walks in on Palpatine in his sith robes or something.  It's a
dazzling revelation to Jar Jar.  In an instant, he sees what a fool he's
been, and how he's been betrayed.  He is enraged.  We've never seen an
enraged Gungan, but I'm willing to bet that they're an impressive sight
(and perhaps even change color).  The overall design of the Gungans is
fairly monstrous, when you come right down to it, with those enormous
hands and alien eyes.  The only reason Jar Jar isn't scary is that he
usually seems so ineffective.  Jar Jar is enraged.  He charges into
Palpatine's quarters, babbling in Gungan, an alien monster on a rampage.
There's a confrontation; Palpatine gets Jar Jar to calm down, tells him
it's not the way it seems.  This works for a little while, but Palpatine
underestimates the change that has been wrought in Jar Jar's soul. He
has seen the truth, and will not so easily believe lies again.
Palpatine, unprepared to actually argue intelligently with his former
puppet, gets caught in his own words.  The freshly enraged alien monster
lacks his hands around the chancellor's throat...

When Jar Jar's body is found, covered with lightsabre wounds, Palpatine
gives a stirring oration.  The Jedi have gone too far, they're not
accountable to anyone, something like this was bound to happen
eventually, etc.  The only defense we can possibly have against
atrocities like this is to (a) raise a Senate-controlled army of
stormtroopers for the defense of all the people and (b) arrest all the
Jedi in the galaxy.  And so it goes.

==============================================[/color]
```


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## Welverin (May 17, 2002)

Didn?t mention this the first time but what did everyone else think of the quality of the picture? My friend and I were a little busy playing Tekken 4 (and had no interest in waiting line just to get INTO the theatre), so we were up front and the quality was noticeably poor , as Ebert mentioned. We were also up close for Blade 2 and Brotherhood of the Wolf and neither one looked as bad. Of course this also tells you we need to stop playing games before going to see movies.



> _Originally posted by KDLadage _*
> ·	And the most amazing thing (IMHO): the admission that the Jedi Order are loosing thier ability to control the powers of the Force. This was something I did not see coming. It plays rather well into the whole "re-balance the force" story line. I am beginning to believe that Yoda not only wanted Anakin to fall, he was counting on it. Anakin is the Yin to the Galaxy-wide Jedi Order's Yang (I may have that backwards). I have to wonder if Yoda thought he could balance the force witht he creation of teh ultimate Dark Jedi and then dispose of him, after the Force was balanced -- and then lost control of his little plan... don't know, but we will see in a few years when Ep-III is released... and let me tell you, I simply cannot wait to see it already.*



It was mentioned in a conversation between Yoda and Mace that the Dark Side was suppressing the force, which was the reason for their weakened powers. Mace mentioned making the presence of a Sith in control of the Senate public, but Yoda shot him down because it would cause even more people to turn against the Jedi knowing they were weakened and a urest among the general population. His reason being the way things were only the Sith doing it knew and that was less dangerous than the unrest caused by the public at large being aware of what was going on.



> *I read a nasty rumor that the voice yelling "No Anakin, NO!" as he starts slaughtering the Sand People is actually that of Liam Neeson (Qui Gon).
> 
> I watched the film a second time and cannot say for sure.
> 
> Anyone here know anything more about that?*




No, but then again I didn?t even notice. I?ll be sure to listen for it the next I see it.


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## Psion (May 17, 2002)

Napftor said:
			
		

> *The unnamed Jedi attempts to take down Dooku and Jango blasts him off the balcony.  Whoa!
> *




Low level Jedi, High level bounty hunter: Don't let it happen to you.



> *I certainly see and feel the anger after Shmi's death but there was little reason for love to blossom (at least on Amidala's side).  Was it necessary?  Sure.  Did it detract from the overall movie experience.  Afraid so.*




Really? The scene before they get chained up salvaged the whole love story thing to me. After how icy and resolute she was to that point, it totally took me off guard. And yet, it made sense.


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## Napftor (May 17, 2002)

Psion said:
			
		

> *
> Really? The scene before they get chained up salvaged the whole love story thing to me. After how icy and resolute she was to that point, it totally took me off guard. And yet, it made sense. *




Yes.  Really.  At least that was how I felt the first time I watched it.  With a second viewing, and paying a bit more attention to it, my mind might be changed.

As for Liam Neeson's voice, I'm damn sure it was him speaking when Yoda sensed Anakin hacking up Tuskens.  Although I'm also pretty sure that he didn't come into the sound stage special, but rather Lucas stole the "Anakin" bit from Ep I--"Anakin, tell them to take off!".  Notice the intonation and urgent quickness are exactly the same from TPM to AotC.


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## el-remmen (May 17, 2002)

*Originally posted on Nutkinland (edited for Language)*

So, hell yeah! Now THAT was a Star Wars movie. . . I hardly know where to begin - so I'll go with the most obviosu thing. Hayden Christiansen who plays Anakin . .I kept cringing waiting for his awful acting and it never came . . .Even the most weird sounding dialogue from the trailers felt a lot more comofrtable and natural in the context of the film and the conversations. In fact, his slightly wooden and yet earnest delivery really helped to convey how sheltered his life has been from a social context. Anyway, the cheesy crap he said wasn't all so different from what a lot of 18 year olds say when they think they are in love. . . At one point I thought that their relationship woul benefit from some Han/Leia-like patter - but then I changed my mind - these are different characters with different experiences.



In the tradition of my viewing os SPider-man, I will lsit my likes and dislikes of the film.

What I Liked:

- Amazingly, Hayden CHristensen as Anakin Skywalker

- The politics get a little more in-depth and sticky and kind of echo some stuff going on in the real world (sacrificing freedom for security).

- Finally getting to see some Jedi in acction - esp. Mace Windu and Yoda (who you can see do a Darth Maul flippy move)

- Christopher Lee was great as Count Dooku

- Obi-Wan got to do some cool stuff and Ewan MacGregor did a great job with him again.

- Jar Jar Binks! I didn't mind him in the first film - but in this one his character is very subtely used for a omniously comic moment when he is manipulated by Palpatine to call for the votes for his emergency powers.

- Corascant and the chance scenes through it were great - A nice quick way to give hte impression of the height of life in the Star Wars universe.

- The movie was really a puzzle piece - I really love how it begins to glue in the story we all know and grew up with in terms of a) Boba Fett's origin, the long-term planing that would be required for the building od something like a death star, the evolution of costumes, armor and ships towards what we saw in Episodes IV thru VI (stormtroopers, star destroyers, imperial guard). Among these is the explanton of who Owen Lars is (I love that "This is my girlfriend, Beru" line)

- Anakin doing something questionable in his reaction to his mother's death and his slaughter of the Tuscan raiders.

- Anakin's loss of the arm - beginning his mechanization - I bet Count Dooku will be his first casualty in EP III and from there Anakin will turn. I can hear Palpatine's laughter now, "If you struck down the one who fought your master and master Yoda to a stand still, think of what you could accomplish. Join me and we will put an end to this conflict!"

- The relationship between Anakin and Obi-wan was well done - and you really get to understand why Obi-Wan felt that he failed as a teacher - he just didn't seem very good at it - and there really seemed to be 10 years of conflict between these characters when the movie opened - like there were already plenty of examples of Anakin not obeying his master and sometimes having bad consequences and sometimes having good ones.

- I just love the Palpatine character - how he manufactured conflict to gain power and his friendly demeanor

- The stuff that kind of make the Jedi look bad: Their short-sightedness about the Sith, their implied complacency and arrogance which leads to their downfall, and something about the scene with the child-jedi made me feel creeped out - like it is some kind of cult or something - esp. in regards to Anakin's prohibition against romantic relationship which helps lead to his downfall (antiquated ideas held on to blidnly can lead to corruption - see Roman Catholic Church).

- Cool Monsters. Remember: Never be an animal handler in the Star Wars universe! 

- Lucas learned how to stage a ground battle - the ships and walking tank things and the storm-trooper-like clones were friggin’ awesome!

- Natalie Portman's open-backed dress.  

What I Did Not Like

- Most of the scene in the robot factory. It was way too vidoe-gamey for me.

- C-3PO sucked in this film. Except for a cool moment of banter between him and R2 (which is the start of their adversarial relationship) he just *stuck* in there - and his own antics in the droid factory were supposed to be comic relief but instead they were just laughable, His awful puns, and the switching of his head with that of a battle droid and his participation in the arena battle afterward. I cringed every time they showed him.

- I loved R2-D2 as always - but it annoys me that have him doing stuff he never does later (like fly with little jet boosters). I know it could easily be explained that later they did not have the resources to refuel his jets or they were removed at some point or something - but still George needs to keep an eye out for continuity a little more.

- I wish they'd showed more of the Tuskan raiders everyday life for a few moments before Anakin slaughtered them all - just to show them in a less inhuman light and make his killing them all for what they did to his mother that much more powerful. I would like to have seen more of the slaughter as well - but I think the film barely made PG as it was - that would have pushed it to PG-13.

----------------------------------------

But overall, I highly enjoyed it am very psyched for Ep III - and I have confidence now that the six movies will link up nicely when all is said and done. 

I'm not sure that this film would not hold much interest for someone who is not already a fan of the movies (and by fan I mean just anyone who liked the previous movies - i don't mean just fanboys) - because it fills in the blanks for questions we had from the "later" films - but honestly that is all it need do for me. 

I plan to watch it again soon at a theatre with a digital projector.


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## King_Stannis (May 17, 2002)

i really, really dug the scenes on kimino. didn't it just look so, for lack of a better word, "alien"? those cloners were creepy, and i thought the visuals in those scenes were marvelous! i loved the constant rain, the clone chambers, everything about it!


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## Desdichado (May 17, 2002)

_



*Psion:*
Low level Jedi, High level bounty hunter: Don't let it happen to you. 

Click to expand...


_
That jedi was one who I saw sitting in the background in one scene as a member of the jedi council.  He really shouldn't be low level...


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## Desdichado (May 17, 2002)

I'm not sure I really understand all of that about the force being out of balance and the jedi having diminished abilities to use it.  What's the connection there?  Is there only so much Force to go around?  Does the force grow in power as both sides are utilized?  Hopefully there's more explanation in the works (or in the novel) 'cause that whole thing didn't gel with me, really.


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## Wulf Ratbane (May 17, 2002)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> *I'm not sure I really understand all of that about the force being out of balance and the jedi having diminished abilities to use it.  What's the connection there?  Is there only so much Force to go around?  Does the force grow in power as both sides are utilized?  Hopefully there's more explanation in the works (or in the novel) 'cause that whole thing didn't gel with me, really. *




I'm sure it has something to do with midichlorians.


Wulf


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## fenzer (May 17, 2002)

This post did not happen.


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## KDLadage (May 17, 2002)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> *I'm not sure I really understand all of that about the force being out of balance and the jedi having diminished abilities to use it.  What's the connection there?  Is there only so much Force to go around?  Does the force grow in power as both sides are utilized?  Hopefully there's more explanation in the works (or in the novel) 'cause that whole thing didn't gel with me, really. *




The way I have (so far) looked at this is like so:

The Jedi order have maintained a tight-fisted control over the teaching of the force. Like most things, it is on a scale, and as the "light" side of teh force continues to drown out the "dark" side, it must, due to the reliance it has on the duality of its nature, weaken as it grows.

I recall Darth Maul indicating that it was time for revenge... perhaps the revenge caused by the many centuries of damning thier side of the force.

Think of the force like a battery. You have a "+" side (light and a "-" side (dark). The force powers are like a circuit... without one, the other will no longer function.

Like I said -- that is just how I have been taking all of it.


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## Ristamar (May 17, 2002)

KDLadage said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I read a nasty rumor that the voice yelling "No Anakin, NO!" as he starts slaughtering the Sand People is actually that of Liam Neeson (Qui Gon).
> 
> ...




Yes, that was most certainly Qui-Gon's voice.  Nasty rumor?  I thought that was a really cool touch...


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## Ristamar (May 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: RE: Balance in the Force*



			
				Black Omega said:
			
		

> *
> Then am I the only one wondering what Amidala must have been smoking to leave senatorial authority with Jar Jar? *




Of course, he wasn't supposed to take any initiative, he was merely there to vote in her place.  Amidala would not only have never put forth such a proposal, she would've been one its most outspoken opponents.  Palpatine played the situation to its fullest potential.


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## Ristamar (May 17, 2002)

*Re: Originally posted on Nutkinland (edited for Language)*



			
				nemmerle said:
			
		

> *- I loved R2-D2 as always - but it annoys me that have him doing stuff he never does later (like fly with little jet boosters). I know it could easily be explained that later they did not have the resources to refuel his jets or they were removed at some point or something - but still George needs to keep an eye out for continuity a little more.*




Hmmm.  I'm not sure why there has been such grumbling about Artoo's boosters.  It's pretty obvious from watching all the other Star Wars movies that the droids have a knack for getting beat to hell and back on a regular basis.  The Rebel Alliance seemed to barely have enough time and resources to refuel and maintain their primary starships.  I doubt they even gave thought to worrying about the anti-grav boosters on some astromech droid.


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## Mouseferatu (May 25, 2002)

RE: Obi-Wan lying to Luke in RotJ and telling him Owen was his (Owi-Wan's) brother...

May I remind you that this occurred only in the novel, not in the movie.  Lucas has stated many times that anything printed in a novel is canon _only unless and until it is contradicted by something in a movie_.  Obviously, at the time, the author--and possibly Lucas himself--thought that Owi-Wan and Owen were related.  Now they aren't.  It doesn't matter, though, because in official continuity, Obi-Wan never claimed they were.

Heck, I've been told that, in the novelization of ESB, Yoda's _blue_, so we can all see how accurate the novels are.  

RE:  The voice yelling "Anakin!  No!"

Definitely Qui-Gon.  First, as someone pointed out, it sure sounds like the exact same intonation as from Ep 1.  Second, it's Qui-Gon in the novel, and while--as I've just pointed out--things don't always jibe between movies and novels, A) there's no reason to change this detail, and B) Lucas seems to keeping a much tighter grip on continuity with the new trilogy and its subsidiary products.  Finally, Liam Neeson made some comment ages ago about having a brief part in the 2nd movie.


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## Corinth (May 25, 2002)

That's in the movie, so it's canon.


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## Mouseferatu (May 25, 2002)

Corinth said:
			
		

> *That's in the movie, so it's canon. *




Which "that" are you talking about?  The Qui-Gon bit?  Yes.  The bit about Obi-Wan telling Luke that he and Owen are brothers?  No.  I've got both versions, original and Special Edition right here next to me, watch them both regularly, and I can assure you there's no mention of Owen being related to anybody during Obi-Wan's Dagobah appearance.

Or you might have meant something else entirely, in which case, ignore me.


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## Christian (May 25, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *I wonder where that story will end...  right after the kids are split up and hidden? *




Ep. III spoilers (!!!) below, highlight at your own risk:

According to unreliable sources , exactly. There were reports from unnamed persons on the AotC set that there was one scene for Ep. III shot on the Tunisia location. The reason? That there was only one scene in that last episode set on Tatooine, so they shot that scene during the Ep. II Tatooine shoot to avoid the extra location trip for the next movie. The scene was shot under heavy secrecy, but evidently, the lead actor involved was Ewan, and the main prop was a small bundle. The speculation is that this was a closing or near-closing scene from Ep. III, in which Obi-Wan delivers the infant Luke to his step-grandfather ...


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## Corinth (May 26, 2002)

mouseferatu said:
			
		

> *Which "that" are you talking about?  The Qui-Gon bit?  Yes.  *



That's the one.


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## LightPhoenix (May 26, 2002)

Finally got around to seeing it last night...

Many people have mentioned that Lucas needs to hire a writer.  Even more so he needs to hire an editor.  There was a good half hour that could have easily been cut from the movie without any loss of context.

Add my voice to the many that say lines were corny.  My fav was Dooku challenging Yoda to a lightsaber duel.

Mace killing Jango was just about the coolest thing I've ever seen.  They play him up to be really nasty, and Mace cuts him down in what must have been less than half a minute.

To me, so much of the movie seemed like it was just happening without any sort of rhyme or reason.  Perhaps it was just bad editing, but every major scene change seemed to be, "Ah, let's go here!  Ah, let's go there!"

I liked most of the characters, even Jar-Jar's minor stint, EXCEPT Amidala.  Perhaps it's bad writing, perhaps it's Natalie Portman, but every time she was on the screen I winced and silently wished the movie would get onto cooler stuff.

In semi-counterpoint, I liked the lovey stuff to a point, until the blatantness and repetitiveness of it started to get to me.  I felt like it was being crammed down my throat.


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