# Forever Amber?



## kookalouris (Oct 5, 2008)

Anyone up for an online Amber Diceless RPG based on the books by Roger Zelazny (you don't have to know the setting or have the rules.  Just bring enthusiasm)?

Fair warning, I love the _*idea *of Amber_, just not the main characters.  PCs would not likely interact with the main characters in the stories.

If I get two interested posters by this time next week, I will write more.  Otherwise, I will take the hint...


----------



## Thanee (Oct 5, 2008)

Hmm... 

Yep, interest is there. I love the Amber books and also have both of the rulebooks.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 5, 2008)

I am all in for such a game. 

Given the fact that you don't like the main characters, how do you mean to organize the campaign? Will it revolve around the events in the books, or you are thinking about something else? Almost everything in the books relates to the main characters, so it may be hard to completely avoid them. Perhaps start in the Courts of Chaos? They were basically unexplored until the 6th book.

At what point of the story you want to place it? Before or after the end of the first pentalogy?


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Oct 5, 2008)

I'm interested in hearing more...


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks to all who responded.  Let me answer your questions as best as I can...

    I believe that the Amber Diceless system and the setting of Amber are very well suited to a PbP setting.  Most pen-and-paper games can be adapted to posting but Amber DRPG is particularly easy to do so.  The rules are simple, based on interpersonal bidding, not dice.  And when creating universes at will is one of a character's minor powers, game balance can't really be abused...

    Let me praise the late Mr. Zelazny, his characters are well-written and perfect for the story he was trying to tell.  But for my purposes, here are the problems I have with Royal Family of Amber.



The characters are ruthless opportunists at best, sadistic psychopaths at worst.  I prefer to GM people trying to be heroes, even flawed heroes.
With literally every imaginable universe at their beck and call, the entire family fights for a merely political prize, the Crown of Amber.
The characters are rather similar and terribly WASP.  Oberon seemed to have a pretty narrow view of what his family should be like and the kids haven't fallen from the tree.

    I realize that these sentences have probably alienated true Amber fans.  This is one reason why I am not promoting the game at a purely Amber-related forum or message board.  But I want to be honest with you.  Purely canon Amber games are available for those who want them (and I mean that in the best possible way).  

So, what kind of fake jewel am I offering, if not real Amber?

First, when the game starts with the characters being godlike immortals, there is nowhere to go but down.  So I want the game to start as _Nine Princes of Amber_ did, the protagonists believing that they are human, in a perfectly ordinary world, slowly learning how 'shadowy' that understanding is.

Secondly, I want the characters to at least feel young.  We change more in the first decades of our lives than in the later decades.  And I imagine immortals stay pretty consistent over the centuries.

Third,  I want to start the game with a strong family bond.  In the end, the only real threat to the characters is each other.  So let's give the characters something to lose.

My basic pitch is this,

This characters start out as a collection of orphaned siblings.  They have no particular reason to believe that they are special at game start.  The world they start out in is probably here and now, Shadow Earth, but whatever shadow they are in, it is dull and humdrum.  They are raised by caring foster parents who take the place of the parents the kids barely remember.

Powerful magics have made the characters seem as normal, perhaps even boring, adolescents.  This magical masking hides the children from pursuers, but necessarily prevents the children from knowing their true selves.

Of course, as in these kinds of stories, something goes terribly wrong and the kids are forced to realize their destiny early...

Think of Luke Skywalker just before his family buys those two beat-up droids on Tattooine.  There's no reason to think he is anything special at the start of the movie.

Doctor Who fans may be reminded of the episode _'Human Nature'_ where the Doctor took on a human identity so convincing even he believed it so as to escape powerful enemies.

Who are the children's parents?  Who is hiding them?  Who is pursuing them?  What disaster made this all necessary?  The good news is that those answers can be tailor-made to the characters and the game.  Let any probable players tell me what period of the books and what parents they would like for their characters.  The important thing is that the game starts out with the kids thinking that they are normal in a perfectly mundane setting...

That's enough for now.  If anything I have written is a deal-breaker, I understand...

Also, DT, it's good to hear from you again...  

Gerry


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Oct 6, 2008)

And I'm glad to see you haven't given up on running this here on ENWorld.  I'm up for this, although I will have to think carefully about the character I will play.  Will we be making our characters' unknown, secret background or will you?  What is the age range of the PCs?  When will this occur in the Amber series?


----------



## Thanee (Oct 6, 2008)

Do you also want the characters to be more of the cooperative kind, working together against a common goal?

That would certainly be more up my ally than the setting-implied Amber-cutthroating. 

Also, would you do the Attribute auction? When we played Amber, quite some time ago, we usually skipped that and everyone just picked Attributes (without knowing what the other characters had, of course) and the Ranks were then set afterwards, just going from highest to lowest. Also when leveling up you could simply improve the Attributes point by point. It's a bit easier to handle that way, too, which might be useful for PbP. But the biggest advantage for PbP is, that new characters can be brought in, easily, without screwing up the whole auction result. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 6, 2008)

DT, a GM has to be an enternal optimist.  

Right now, I don't quite have the time to give as lengthy and polished reply as I would like but I want to y'all's questions sooner rather than later.

You may make your character's background as long as it won't work against the game (and trust me, I am hard pressed to think of a character that wouldn't work) OR I will come up with a background for your character, whatever YOU want.  You can even be one of the characters in the Amber series (we will assume there is a very good reason why such a powerful being has been reduced to an ordinary teen).

Don't forget, there are infinite variations of the Amber family themselves throughout Shadow.  Even Corwin can't be sure if he is fighting for the One True World, or just the One True World he knows of.  So we don't have to stick to established continuity.  And characters can be effectively duplicated, slightly different versions from slightly different shadows (different brands of Brand, for example).

Also, if every possibility happens in Shadow, then every story or character you have read about has happened somewhere in Shadow, you may be able to bring your favorite character from ANY story into the game.

In short, just suggest a background, 99% will work.  The only real caveat is that your character is somewhat more than a self-centered would-be tyrant (this includes the Princes of Amber, but your prince may have had a moral awakening.  Besides, given Eternity, even selfishness or mere power would get old after a long while).

At game start, most of the people around your character (including your character) will think the PC to be somewhere around the ages of 11-17, the characters true age (chronological, apparent and mental) is up to the player.

Given that different shadows have different timeflows and that these timeflows can be set (relative to Amber) by powerful enough beings, I can easily set the game to whatever period of the books the players want.

More specifics about the game will depend on the particular mix of player preferences.  For example, if every player wants to be the descendant of a particular Prince (do Amber Princesses have children?), that will be a different game than if the players want to be an Amber breeding experiment from the Courts of Chaos.

Here are (as I see them) the two basic approaches to the game, with near-infinite variations between the two...

About a generation (subjective time) before the game starts...

A war for the Pattern is fought between two powerful forces (Law and Chaos?).  One side wins, but not decisively.  The losing side is able to save some of the children and warriors of their side to safety.   As the exiles are being tracked not just physically, but mentally, spiritually and magically, it is necessary to disguise the rebels as children, physically and mentally, even to themselves.  A group of powerful guardians is caring for them but their pursuers are more powerful and discover them early...

APPROACH ONE:  The rebels are being hidden by what is left of their family retainers.  There is no question of their loyalty to the kid's initial cause.

APPROACH TWO:  The kidnapped kids are being raised by their enemies who hope to raise them as powerful warriors for their side and eventual comeback.

Whatever the true motives of the kid's guardians, it is necessary to them that the kids be raised in a happy environment with a need to right 'moral wrongs.'  So the game will start with what seems a truly loving family.  This will add drama later when the character's realize their true selves and learn they are the children of mortal enemies, or the mortal enemies themselves.  

I mean, Corwin and Eric couldn't have hated each other from their cribs.  And their mutual hatred becomes more poignant if they once loved each other.

As far as bidding,  here is my provisional idea...

All characters start as HUMAN in all stats, with no powers bought or points bid.  As the game progresses, the character may bid to their full 100 points, freely at times, restricted at others.  This is the game effect of the children slowly realizing themselves to be demigods.  Your character's true self may have been a 500 point uberhero but this game deals with the short span of their eternal life where they remember who they are or once were...

So, let's say that Brother A and Sister B have learned that they are mortal enemies and are fighting for power.  Both can bid for their Warfare stats, but once those points are spent, they are committed to that stat.  So, both siblings have to decide how important is this fight and the Warfare stat to the rest of the game.  So the player with the highest Strength in the early phases of the game may not be the highest at the end of the game if another player really wants it more.

I'll stop here for now, let me know what you think.  Nothing is cast in stone and I'm not married to anything...


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 6, 2008)

To maximize the game's chances, I have setup a duplicate thread at PbPHouse

Forever Amber?


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 6, 2008)

Hmm, well, I understand your objections to the principal characters, and I can find some common ground. But then, I think that there are some exceptions (corwin and merlin are not exactly savage and ruthless tyrants, as well as others).

I will have to think about the character. One problem that I can see with your approach to the backstory is that the players will have to decide in advance whether all of them are part of Chaos or Law (it was Logros and the Design, wasn't it?)


----------



## Thanee (Oct 6, 2008)

Pattern and Logrus.

And I wouldn't call Amber "Law". They are hardly the lawful side... 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 6, 2008)

Actually, the players don't have to be on the same side.  The forces capable of reducing the such powerful beings to mundane children (at least temporarily) are hoping the change in ID might lead to a change in loyalties.

Once you reduce your enemy to an infant, is it really easy to hate that baby?  It could be that allies and captured enemies were given the same treatment.

And (hint, hint) it may be that your guardians grew to care about their charges, even if that wasn't their _*initial*_ orders...

Still, I yield to superior knowledge of things Amber.    It has been awhile since I have read the books.  It is true that Corwin and Merlin were amongst the best of the bunch.  I suppose I am being a little bit unfair to them... 

I guess I am being a little overcautious.  The sheer godlike power of the Amber family is munchkin-bait and power-hungry players is something I want to avoid (and so far seem to have, glad to say)...


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 7, 2008)

I have a few extra moments so let me ask, what mundane shadow do you want your characters to think that they are from?

The requirements are...



The world must be relatively safe, perhaps even dull so that the contrast of discovering the more exciting shadows, especially the canon shadows, will be more wonderous.
The family should have some knowledge of the medieval/celtic/norse/Shakespearean flavorings that Zelazny used as influences, even if that is not the dominant culture of the shadow that they call home.  This will help explain why the characters will feel more at home in Amber (if they do, they might not).


The various links to other shadows contained within the family homestead must have an 'mundane' explanation as to keep cover.  This implies some kind of fantastic museum/library/bookstore location near home.


The orphans will be quite numerous, home-schooled, and generally kept from feeling too much a part of the mundane world around them (they have a greater destiny, as far as their guardians are concerned, which will be realized earlier than anyone expects).  In our modern society, this implies something other than average, middle-class society.  The orphans can be aristocracy (which can afford to raise a family as they see fit), an alternative community (which is too different to assimilate with the neighbors) or poor (who simply can't afford to send the kids to school).

As different levels of magic and technology work in different shadows, there is no ONE shadow that would be perfect training grounds for the orphans, so think what sensibilities you wish the orphans to have.

Possible Shadows:

Shadow Earths:  The world we know.  It is familiar and the Amber Chronicles started out the same way...


    Now, near a major city.
    1970, New York state, the exact same way Nine Princes of Amber started.
    Victorian Britain, Victorian aristocracy of the British Empire would have similar sensibilities to the Princes of Amber.  Also, this evokes the Wonderland riffs in the books.
    Swashbuckling France, similar to New Avalon and the musketeer feel of Amber.
     Elizabethan Britain, There are many Shakespearean references in Zelazny.  Such characters would feel at home in Amber.
    Beowulf-era Britain:  the norse and celtic mythologies would work well for these folks.


Other shadows:


 *Tiers*, a world based on Phillip Jose Farmer's World of Tiers, by Zelazny's unashamed admission, the main inspiration for the Chronicles of Amber.
 *Ariel*, an Elizabethan world where local superstitions and myth are real, especially anything Shakespeare dreamed up.  Think 7th Sea.
 *Tintagel*, A world where the Arthurian myths are real, along with the other legends from the Age of Chivalry.  Think Pendragon
 *Albion*, a steampunk world where Wonderland would seem at home.  Think Castle Falkenstein/Space:  1889
 *Arcadia*, Mythic pre-revolution France, think the mood of Brotherhood of the Wolf.
 

These are only ideas and musings.  I heartily encourage any other suggestions and look forward to feedback...


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 7, 2008)

If I were to give my two cents, I would vote for the real world, or for 1970, with a particular characteristic: there is no fantasy and no sci-fi genre (yes, no tolkien, asimov, arthur clark, and obviously no zelazny). This way, the characters are unaccustomed to such things as parallel worlds and magic and so on, if not at a basic level described by the fairy tales and arthurian tradition. Because we have to admit that if one of us in real life were to be transported in a fantasy world, after the moment of initial shock, he would start analyzing the setting (high/dark fantasy), the magic system and so on...if he had read enough books, he would be hardly surpised by anything. This requirement also makes the world more dull, because there is no escape in fantasy.

So, modern world, with no fantasy/sci-fi for me. Probably a wealthy/aristocratic family which raises the children home, because they feel that the grade school / high school is lacking. I would see the oldest children (those around 17) preparing to take the high school equivalence test, and applying for the elite universities.

Also, perhaps the family instructors are extremely good, but they are very pragmatical: they teach, but they don't inspire. The world, according to them, is rational, and has to be studied like a scientific subject. No inspiration, no great joy, no nothing. Pretty dull childhood.

These are, of course, just ideas. I will adapt to any other suggestion.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Oct 7, 2008)

Wow, in 2 years I don't think I've seen an amber game get suggested here at ENworld. I played the Amber drpg over almost 2 years, (a decade ago, going from standard starting characters to 800+ point power houses that destroyed both the pattern and the logrus in the end ;p). While I don't have any of the books, I did read them around the time I played last. A cooperative game would be a completely diffent experience that I'd be interested in trying out.

What kind of timeframe were you thinking about for running this? Because while it may be a little interesting to start out as "normals" I'd think it would get dull very quickly, unless the characters' "awakening" was going to happen very early in the game, say within the first 200 posts. 

That said I have a concept for one of the older kids, or maybe even one of the younger guardians. A conscript type character that isn't attached to either the pattern or logrus, but is (or will be) a shapeshifting conjurer. He has been either regressed with the others, or is simply hiding among them as another child devoted to defending them. 

I think the swashbulcking era would be very cool to place the setting in, where every word a person says matters and a quick tongue or slow mind can get you killed faster than the plague can find you. People today think their words have no weight, and playing in an era where they do could force people to think about what they are going to say.


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Oct 7, 2008)

For a setting, I like the idea of the player characters starting out in a modern city and era, then somehow getting into a mideval technology-based shadow and finding their talents/powers.


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks for the well thought-out replies.  Let me use what time I have tonight to explain a little more.

I have run this game once before, long ago on a board far, far away.  Which started out the characters on a world very much like our own and they ended up in a very cool swashbuckling shadow much like Amber so I have a good feeling this time around.  I like what I have heard of character ideas so far.

Vertexx, if there hasn't been an Amber game here for a couple of years, then I can say that I will offer the best damn Amber game this board has seen for years (by default)!    Of course, the means I will offer the worst Amber game the board has seen in years (bloody logic and semantics).  

As it turns out, the characters do not necessarily have to start out on the same shadow.  For 'insurance' the orphans may have spread out amongst several shadows.  But within the first week of posting, I hope to have a way for the shadows to connect and for the scattered family to meet each other.  This one event should alone make the characters realize that there is more to the Amberverse and themselves then they ever imagined.  If not, one of their pursuers finding them almost immediately afterwards will be a pretty good clue.  So the game will _start _with the discovery and awakening of the characters.  The characters will grow evenly throughout the game.



Let me expand upon the premise of the story.  These are generalities, the actual character conceptions will dictate the final form of the details.

Here are the major groups that make up the game.

The *Victors*:  Whoever they are, they won a decisive war about a generation ago.  They are the vastly stronger power in the game.  Their only limitations is that they haven't completely hunted down all of the Rebels and (if they are the kind of pure Evil types fantasy novels are so fond of, have not YET been able to destroy or corrupt Everything That Is, but they are almost there).

The *Rebels*:  The losers in the great war above, about the only thing that can be said for them is that they haven't ALL been hunted down and neutralized yet.  They lurk in silent, isolated shadows and brood about claiming (or re-claiming) power.

The *Orphans*:  The 'humanized' PCs and their siblings.  The focus of this game.

The *Watchers*:  The guards or guardians of the Oprhans, depending on circumstances.

The *Seneschals*:  The followers and allies that maintained the Homeshadows.  The Seneschals were the surprised hosts of both the Orphans and the Watchers when those two groups were suddenly dumped in thier laps and the Homeshadows were obscured and hidden from those trying to find them.

The *Homeshadows*:  These are the shadows where the game begins, either one shadow or a small group (and in the Amberverse, any finite group of shadows is a small group).  The Homeshadows were secret bases and hideouts during the recent war.  As far as the Seneschals and Watchers know, the location of the Homeshadows and/or the fact that the Orphans are hidden there is still unknown to the enemy.

Up to very recently, that was true.  Which will lead to the start of the game...

The above game factors are the plot essentials as I see them.  Here are some possible ways the game could use them, depending on player character choices.

*Option One:  Sympathetic Victors*;  the Orphans are either 'humanized' captured Rebels or the children of as-yet-uncaptured Rebels.  The Victors are keeping them isolated and hidden for the following reasons...



The Victors are too moral to simply kill the defeated and or innocent.
The Victors are keeping the Orphans alive as humanized shields and hostages to discourage remaining Rebels from what they would consider terrorist acts of revenge.
The Victors are using the Orphans as bait.
The Victors honestly believe that the Orphans can be raised (or re-raised) as 'Victors', rehabilitiated and productive scions in the new Victorious Order.
The Victors are manipulating the Orphans into becoming trusting tools of the Victors to help lure other Rebels into a trap.
Any or all of the above...

In this option, the Orphans are treated well and loved (at least it seems that way).  The Victors don't want the Orphans to realize their full potential (at least not until centuries of guidance and training).  Above all, the Orphans would be discouraged from learning any kind of military or political skills, instead encouraged to focus on the Humanities and Arts.

However, the Rebels are small in number but individually very powerful.  They will discover the Orphans and try and abduct/rescue them in a lighting raid...


*Option Two:  Sympathetic Rebels:*  The Orphans are Rebel children or 'humanized' Rebel Princes (and Princesses) or even captured Victors, reduced to a helpless and trusting adolescent mortality.  The Orphans are necessarily kept as unknowing children to keep from the powerful magicks that would reveal an Amber-sized soul to the hunting Victors.  The Rebels are keeping the Orphans in this manner so as to keep them alive and able to train for the eventual coup/liberation.  As the weaker army, the Rebels can't afford to lose even one child so all of the kids, whatever their true origin, will become child warriors in the Righteous Rebellion.

In this case, the Rebels will teach the kids martial and political skills.  This training will barely be begun before at least one homeshadow is discovered by the Victors' forces, forcing those Rebels and Orphans who survive the initial attack to flee across Shadow, ill-prepared, confused and chased.

Between these two options, there are infinite shades of gray.  In history, very few armies have been completely wrong or right, savior or tyrant.  Most wars are simply to some degree my tribe versus your tribe.  Let me know what you think.


Whatever is decided above, here's a little more detail on a local level.

The Homeshadows were originally, first and foremost, minor hidden bases and strongholds.  They were spartan, dull shadows, never meant to be the incubators of Amberish royalty.  Due to as yet undetermined plot reasons, the Orphans and Watchers were suddenly relocated to the Homeshadows without enough planning or preparation to make the best choice or use of the Homeshadows.  Their saving grace is that they are so backwards and far-flung the chances of them being located or even accidentally discovered are considered remote.

The Seneschals were the local staff and army of the Homeshadows, either native converted to the 'cause' or the cause turned 'native.'  No Seneschals expected to be saddled with super children and their super nannies.   And the Homeshadows were made even more remote so the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals have been stuck on the Homeshadows since their initial exodus to game start.

If the Victors run  the Homeshadows, the Orphans are not considered important enough to warrant using a truly useful shadow or Watchers or Seneschals.  The decision to keep the Orphans alive was not a popular one and even the supporters of the Orphan 'project' know it is best that the kids are seen and not heard.

If the Rebels run the Homeshadows, then the Orphans, Watchers and Seneschals may be all that is left of the movement and the B-list Homeshadow may be all that is available to the revolutionaries.

What does all of this mean?  It means that if the Watchers and Seneschals ultimately mean the Orphans ill, there may be something in the Homeshadows that might work in the trapped Orphans favor.  The reason for two groups of allies is to allow the Orphans a decent chance at guides, no matter how grim their situation.

The Watchers could be callously using the children as weapons.  In which case, the decent forthright warrior Seneschals might be the Orphans true allies.  If the Orphans are prisoners, then the Watchers are family retainers and loyal servants pitted against the guarding Seneschal wardens...

All of these factors in play allow me easy customization to the group's wishes.  As always, let me know what you think.  I value feedback and like Shadow, all of this is subject to your interpretation...

Next up, I hope have a cameo from a character you know of an example of one way to make such a character....


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 8, 2008)

Hmm....many choices...many options...many gray areas and shadows. Heck, even the ooc thread has an Amber-like style.

Let me digest and chew this for a while (and i will flip a little bit some books, looking for inspiration).


----------



## Thanee (Oct 8, 2008)

Yep, thanks for all the info... makes it a lot easier to see what you have in mind. 

As to the two major options, I think "Option Two: Sympathetic Rebels" would get my vote.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm with Thanee on this one.  Option 2 please.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm with you fellers. The 2nd option seems to mesh much better with an adventure type of game pace.


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks for all your replies,

My apologies, my friends and I have watched the tivo-ed Presidential debate as an excuse to have a drinking game.  I am at _least _one rum-and-coke past any sense of real compostition and editing.  If anything is unclear or casually offensive (when I offend, I am usually quite deliberate about it), let me know and I will clarify and/or apologize tomorrow after the hangover...

First, take what time you need with replies.  This game is like a slow-cooked stew, quality ingredients deserve the time to become more than the sum of their parts.  In all seriousness, I am constantly amazed how any game is a unique creation of its participants and as individual as irreplacable as anything I could name.  Please don't be worried about how much I ramble on.  I will write a whole page if one sentence will mean something to you.  The problem is I don't know _which _sentence will be the prize.

At the pace we are going, I think I will be able to have detailed character creation details by next Sunday (one week after the initial welcome post) but let it take the time it will take.

That said, I think I can hazard that your characters will be the last hope of a rebellion stuck on a mundane Earth similar to the one the players and posters reading know and live on.

These questions will asked probably a few days from now, but let me get you thinking.



Who do you want to be your enemies (you can be unwillingly related to them, that is _very _'Amber.')?
Who do you want to be your friends?
How much do we want to keep to established Amber continuity and when in that continuity do we want the game to happen?

With your mental fires stoked, let me continue on in the meantime...

The premise of this game requires a powerful magic that makes Amber royalty consider themselves mere mortal youths.  For plot purposes...



The magic is psychological, the character have all of their abilities but have repressed that knowledge.  They do have their FULL resistance against death and dying (although they might maintain stay in a purely psychosomatic coma resembling death).
The magic is not so inflexible as to allow the characters not to use their full Amber blood abilities to save themselves if that ALONE would make the difference between life and death.  If possible, the characters and onlookers will then quickly rationalize any supernatural evidence away, using subconscious shadowwalking if necessary.
The magic delusion will fade as the characters reach adulthood.  This cannot be stopped and wouldn't be, in any case.  It is necessary that the children remember who they truly are, just not YET...  Repeated evidence of Amber phenomena will only hasten this ultimate dispelling...
The magic is necessarily adjustable.  There are times when the intensity of the delusion may need to be changed (yes, there are rare times when seeming mortal and mundane can actually be an advantage).    The method of control can be used by practically anyone if they know how.  The Orphans will learn how during the course of the game and manipulate this magic for their own ends.  In the end, though, the magical glamour cannot last forever.
To be adjustable, the magic could be...
An item:  Perhaps a trump or ring or tattoo.  The power of the delusion would vary depending on the proximity of the item (or for, say, a tattoo, its condition and elaboration).
A being or construct: say a retainer or familiar that needs to be near in proximity or affection (maybe both) to the character.
A location:  perhaps a pattern or homeshadow,  proximity to it is the strength of the spell.
A ritual:  a spell or poem, the occurence and detail of the ritual would be its strength,
 
Part of the magic would a compulsion to maintain the strength of the delusion for both the Orphan and unknowing onlookers.  The compulsion isn't irresistable but would seem to be such a minor and mundane desire that, short of knowledge of the magic, there would be no real reason to deny it.
An item could seem sentimental, found by onlookers, they would feel a need to return it to its 'rightful' owner.
A favorite pet would generally be loved by the character and the pet would of course try and stay close to the character.
A location would be a favorite place of the character, where they might feel at home.
A ritual could be a favorite song that the character's like to sing, for example.
 
These are just possibilities and there could be different geases for each character.

There is no direct precedent for such a plot device in the Amber books (that I can think of) so I am open to suggestions as to how the Rebels obtained such a power.  The Victors ignorance of the source, existence, and details of such a magic may be one of the Rebel's few much-needed advantages.  But the Victors learn quickly...

I had hoped to explain how such a magic would affect Llewella, Princess of Amber, as an example.  But time and sobriety elude me, I will try to write more tomorrow.  As always, I value your feedback...


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 11, 2008)

Woo..I finally got my hand on the e-books and there are far more options then I though. Luckily, no point spending is required for now.

So, I thought a little bit about the character. 

Enter Steve Jennsen, a 17-old kid living in the family house, 30 km away from Boston. Quite tall for his age, with a honest expression, gray eyes, black hair and somewhat absent look. He is currently preparing for the high school equivalence exam and then the SATs, after having studied at home all his life, and afterwards he will apply for Harvard. Although he has basically no extracurricular activities (such as sports and so on) because of his secluded live, his consistent placement in the first places of international math competitions has already granted him an assured place at the university. 

When not studying (either for the exams, or for his own interests, which include history, biology and philosophy), he plays football with his extended (quite wealthy) family each Friday, when they gather at the house: and there are enough family member scattered in the radius of 500km to make the games quite competitive.


Now, what he doesn't know (and I am leaving gray areas, so that the DM can surprise me   )

He is the son of either Osric or Finndo, illegitimate first sons of Oberon. Let's assume that when they were cast away from Amber, on the front lines of a war they couldn't win, at least one of them managed to get paired with someone from the courts of chaos (their mother is supposed to be from there, so maybe she acted as the intermediary; or perhaps they were sent to fight against the courts of chaos). 

Steve, or better, Stark, is the result of this pairing, and is subjectively quite old. Given the fact that he has spent a lot of his time in seclusion, concentrating on his studies of the primal powers and sorcery, nobody knew him at the beginning of the Final Confrontation. Then, out of nowhere, he appeared alone to storm several strongholds of the Victors, which at that phase were already predominant. After successfuly storming the third one, he locked himself in the central room, storage for ancient artifacts, and when the defenders finally managed to nullify his wards on the door, he was sitting there, staring into the nothingness. Needless to say, he was restrained and imprisoned, but a raid from their opponents managed to free him. Not that the opponents knew much more on his motives: they just wanted to free someone who was apparently on their side. 

He was still recovering when they decided to enforce the "hidden childs" plan.

Perhaps, Stark was just trying to restore the equilibrium. Or perhaps, he already foresaw what was going to happen, and his "incident" was carefully crafted. Who knows. The point is that even if the spell on his is to be suddenly lifted, he wouldn't remember much of his former life, because of that partial amnesia he suffered. But if the incident was crafted, he probably left some clues somewhere, to help his future self.



As for the origins of this magic: could it be that it is the result of a single being? Some of you may remember an episode of Doctor Who, when he assumed the disguise of a normal human with such a success, that he was able to fool both his enemies and himself (and I think it was even mentioned in the amber drpg). What if one of the elder rebels, long time hidden under disguises, has learned such a thing, and how to enforce them on other beings?


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 11, 2008)

My apologies for not writing in a couple of days.  Work has been a beast.  I hope to write something tomorrow.

But I have to commend Nightbreeze on Stark.  What a great character idea! 

It will be a plus to add elements of Osric or Finndo as Zelazny left them as blank slates for us to embellish.  More tomorrow (I hope!)


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 11, 2008)

why, thanks 

Ah, and I forgot to give my two cents for about our position in the time continuity: given the fact that in the second chronicles of Amber nothing big happens (I mean, from the cosmological point of view. Merlin's misadventures are nothing to scoff at), why don't we assume that the big confrontation started during the second chronicles (but was invisible to us readers) and escalated shortly afterwards? It is up to kookalouris (I can't help but think about "cook" and "calories") to decides whether Merlin becomes king or not, and which side wins, how and why. He can even get most of the known characters killed and replaced, just to add some fun


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 13, 2008)

My apologies for the delay in posting.  Unfortunately, my job has now gone to mandatory overtime.  So, for the short term at least, the game will be a little bit s-l-o-w-e-r than I had foreseen.

    Still, that means we can take what time we need to get it right.  

    In the meantime, let me go ahead and give you some of the ways Llewella could be made for this game.

    As Zelazny wrote her, Llewella was a minor character in the Royal Family of Amber.  She chose to spend most of her time in Remba, the undersea world near Amber and spent little effort chasing the Crown of Amber.

    I have chosen her as example partly because she is the most alien of the canon siblings and the most challenging to bring into a Shadow Earth of the Here and Now (the most likely game possibility so far).  There could many different versions of how Llewella could be done, depending on player and game needs.



One dimension could be just how much of a 'volunteer' Llewella was for the 'mortalization.'
Another could be just how alien Llewella is for the world she is in.
And, finally, just how advantaged is Llewella relative to the natives.
*
Volunteer Llewella*;  By nature, politically indifferent Llewella would only have volunteered for such an exile if the stakes were very high and Remba itself might be at stake.  Not particularly power-hungry (even for a non-Amberite), she would oppose those who were.
*
Conscript/Prisoner Llewella*;  A reluctant Llewella could have been captured by the Rebels or hunted by the Victors.  It may be that Llewella's natural non-involved nature may have been seen as abandoment or desertion of the 'true cause.'  Unwilling Llewella might be a 'problem child' as her subconscious rage manifests as more-than-typical adolescent rebellion and angst.

*Human Llewella*; Human Llewella's mystical disguise would not show any unusual features, her formerly green hair (and perhaps even skin) would be a perfectly normal and mundane hue.  While she would naturally prefer the water (and might even dye her hair green), she would have no atypical abilities regarding it.

*Alien Llewella*;  Llewella might have some of her abilities and strange (to Shadow Earth) features explained away as a very rare genetic 'condition.'  It would still be something the teen would be very self-conscious about and try to keep private (which would help keep 'cover.').

*Advantaged Llewella*;  The Royal Family of Amber is literally superhuman and, even reduced, Llewella would be more athletic, intelligent and attractive than the natives (just not obviously impossibly so).  Her social position would also be exceptional, rich, politically powerful, even royalty.

*Disadvantaged Llewella*;  or perhaps merely ordinarily human.  'Lily' might be a sullen, withdrawn loner that no one really pays any attention to (which may be the way the alienated teen likes it).  What possible advantage could a very 'ordinary' background be for the player characters.  First, it might bleed off the arrogance and hubris typical of the average child of Oberon.  As pride has been the undoing for more than one Prince of Amber, this could actually be an advantage.  It would also make the disguise that much harder for the 'other side' to penetrate.

    Whatever else is decided about Llewella, she will occasionally daydream about an undersea fantasy realm called..."Remora" or "Umbra" or something like that.  Whether she tells anyone about this or even paints it for others will depend on how alienated she feels.


OK, these are some, but certainly not all, of the ways one of the Princesses of Amber could be put into this game.  I use this as example.  My philosophy is that whatever doesn't hurt the game can only help it so many different interpretations are possible, depending on player preferences.

I hope this helps as you think about your character conception.  My next post will be the big 'wish list' about the common features of the game.  This will be the *best *time to tell me what you want in the game, if you haven't already.  After that, finally, more detailed individual character details.


As always, I look forward to your feedback...


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 13, 2008)

May I suggest that you post this over at myth-weavers too? Just to get some more people. I mean, we seem to be just four right now, and you never know.

I would also suggest speeding up with the start, as soon as everyone has a description...but that's just the thirst to play . I will post a more detailed description of Steve's personality after your next posts


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 16, 2008)

My apologies for not writing in a little bit.  In addition to more unexpected time at work, I now have a surprise ear infection (and I thought it was just the bad muzak at work).  

I will try and write more in the next couple of days.  The extra time has bred some interest at the other thread over at PBP House.  And since the game is necessarily slower now than I had wished, I have put one more duplicate thread on Myth Weavers (which I'm new to, but _me likes!!_  ).

Forever Amber? - Myth-Weavers

Belated wish list next...


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 16, 2008)

The Big Wish List:

This is a series of largely *optional* questions about the game.  These will be the common factors that players and GM should agree upon as much as possible.  Answer the ones that are important to you but this is the moment when your choices will  have the *most power *to *change *the game.  From the responses to this post, I will start to design the game background and structure.

Some of you have already answered some of these questions (and I _do _remember your responses) but I wanted to formally offer the questions up for clarity.

In most cases, I am utterly neutral as to the possible answers.  In some, I have a preference that I want to share with you.  And in still others, I can offer a little more hints and spoilers to the game if that helps with your decisions of course (and these may be in SBLOCK spoiler boxes).

First, some questions about the nuts-and-bolts of running the game:



What do we want to call the game?  Amber will do but it would be nice to further distinguish this game from the larger creation of Zelazny so as to avoid confusion.
What method do we want to run the game?  An ENWorld forum would do the job.  Is there any chance I can talk the players into a dedicated Yahoo group so as to store files and the like (or other group services, such as Google or MSN)?
How often would you like to post?  Recent events at my workplace have probably slowed me down to twice or thrice weekly at most.


Now some plot questions:

Some of these have been asked (and answered) before.  Please indulge me asking them again for completeness.



How much do we want to hold to the canon continuity of Amber?  Do we include the Bentacourt books?  Are there specific variations of Amber continuity we want to see?  What point in the continuity do we want to set the game?
What Zelazny characters and places do you want to see in the game?  I will try and work them in.  Which Zelazny characters and places DON'T you want to see in the game?
Of the characters and places you do want to have in the game, who do you want on your side and who do you want to  be your enemies?  Remember, we are only as good as our villains.
How Evil do you want the Victors to be?  Merely the winning team or out to destroy Life, the Universe, and Everything!?
While your characters have to be near each other in a plot sense, do you want to all be part of the same family and the same place or different families in the same time (similar to the Roswell/Smallville TV series)?

Let me get these questions to you while I have the time.  I may add more [rod serling]...for your approval[/rod serling]


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Oct 17, 2008)

1.) kookalouris' Amber Chronicles
2.) ENWorld forum
3.) 3x/week

The rest of the questions I leave to the options of the GM.  I will decide my character once we have a better idea of the plotline.


----------



## Thanee (Oct 17, 2008)

Same here... why not just call it as Deuce Traveler said.

This forum is fine, no need for anything beyond it (it can store files, too).

About three posts a week on average (depending on general speed, naturally) is fine.


As for the rest... I would actually prefer to not know anything about this. 

Only thing worth mentioning are Brand and the Well of four elements (or whatever it is called, that place of power from the Merlin Chronicles), which I would prefer _not_ to see (again; already played a campaign centered around these ).

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 18, 2008)

1.) kookalouris' Amber Chronicles
2.) ENWorld forum
3.) I am fine with every kind of speed.

4.) Never heard about Bentacourt. Keeping (most) of the continuity, and setting it one generation after the first chronicles, or one generation after the second chronicles, is ok.

5) No particular preferences. I would love to see some new strange places in shadow, that are unusual (think Keep of the four elements, or the cavern with the tracing rocks). But I'd also like to have an awesome introduction to the famous places: amber/mt kolvir/courts of chaos

6) My character upholds balance, so either is fine for me. It would be nice if the lines were blurred (aka, if Amber won, actually a lot of chaosites passed on their side before the battles, for whatever reason). This way it is less banal than the normal, eternal conflict.

7) MMhh...say different factions? More or less cohesive, but some of them carry the philosophy to the extreme. More evil than good, so it would be unlikely to find good-hearted helpers.

8) If someone wants to join the Jennsen boston family, of course. Otherwise, it would be interesting if the families of people in a different earth time shadow are my ancestors (for example, one of the kids in medieval england belongs to a family which later spawned the Jennsen)


----------



## Vertexx69 (Oct 19, 2008)

we want to call the game?  Amber will do but it would be nice to further distinguish this game from the larger creation of Zelazny so as to avoid confusion.
Kook's Brainwashed Amber


What method do we want to run the game?  An ENWorld forum would do the job.  Is there any chance I can talk the players into a dedicated Yahoo group so as to store files and the like (or other group services, such as Google or MSN)?
ENworld works fine now


How often would you like to post?  Recent events at my workplace have probably slowed me down to twice or thrice weekly at most.
3 times a week should be fine



How much do we want to hold to the canon continuity of Amber?  Do we include the Bentacourt books?  Are there specific variations of Amber continuity we want to see?  What point in the continuity do we want to set the game?
Since its been sooo long since Ive read any of the amber stuff, I don't think we should try to stick to any kind of story written ages ago.


What Zelazny characters and places do you want to see in the game?  I will try and work them in.  Which Zelazny characters and places DON'T you want to see in the game?
I'd like to avoid any run-ins with any of the big 4 from either side.


Of the characters and places you do want to have in the game, who do you want on your side and who do you want to  be your enemies?  Remember, we are only as good as our villains.
Lets get whacky instead of just getting embroiled in the same old political mire that seems to stop all progress.


How Evil do you want the Victors to be?  Merely the winning team or out to destroy Life, the Universe, and Everything!?
As Evil as the Catholic church....so go nuts!


While your characters have to be near each other in a plot sense, do you want to all be part of the same family and the same place or different families in the same time (similar to the Roswell/Smallville TV series)?
Like in any war there are alliances, and in that way I'd like to NOT all be from the same family. Maybe more of surrogate family that was placed together after the washing was over.


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 20, 2008)

As usual, time is suddenly against me.  I am putting a rough draft of a post up that I _hoped _to have done yesterday.  If the draft is incomplete or unclear, I will edit it as soon as I can.  But y'all deserve a response.  This is where you think about who your characters were (and might be again)...




My apologies for not writing for a bit.  Let's get to a fun post now.

  The earlier post was about what we had to decide in common.  But here you get to be as self-indulgent as the game will allow.  
This post is about your characters in general (next will be the actual character creation details).
 At game start, your characters believe themselves to be young adults, the orphaned children of unknown parents.  If you choose, 
your character could actually be an adolescent, raised from a newborn to a teenager.  But I think most players will choose to play a much 
more powerful and older character reduced by necessity to an unknowing teen.  So before deciding who you are, let's think about who you 
were and might be again...
 Perhaps the most powerful beings in the Amber setting are the members of the Royal Family themselves.  Arguably close would be 
some of the most powerful Lords of Chaos (for example, Lady Dara).  As far as I am concerned, you can be ANY of Zelazny's characters 
without really altering game balance as this game deals with only the short period of time when all PC's are have a relatively small and 
similar amount of power (innately or reduced by powerful magics).

 I expect most players will be of the blood of Amber, which means that ultimately Dworkin was your ancestor, no matter how many 
generations removed.  If you want to speculate a non-canon family line, I'm hip.  Through Dworkin, there was Oberon and then his many 
children.  You can play or be descended from any Prince or Princess of Amber as far as I am concerned.  Due to the differing timeflows in 
various shadows, you can be of the first of the thousandth new generation.  This can allow you to be descended from two or more of the 
Royal Family without necessarily invoking Oedipal overtones (for example, Merlin is the great-great-grandchild of Benedict and the son of 
Benedict's brother Corwin).
 At this point, let me mention the John Gregory Bentancourt books, which are continuations of the Amber Chronicles authorized by 
the Zelazny estate.  Whatever their merits, these books are controversial as Roger Zelazny expressed his desire that no one else write about 
Amber after his death.  I don't know enough about them to have a real opinion, I do know that they are prequels, dealing with the early life 
of Oberon.
 Being of the Amber bloodline will give the power over Pattern, which will let you walk Shadow, be immortal, and have a score of 
scheming relations.  However, being of the blood of Chaos will give you power over the Logrus as well as immortality as well.  You may even 
have some of both bloodlines, similar to Merlin.  But your character doesn't have to have these (or any other) supernatural bloodlines, they 
can be a merely human friend of the Amber orphans.  This will mean your character will be far less powerful and capable than those of 
Amber or Chaos.  Still, it is an option for those who want it.
 In addition to the blood of Amber (or whatever), there is also the blood of your other parentage.  Llewella, for example, takes after 
her mother in many ways.  You are free to choose any other parent, from any real or imagined world, that can be worked into the plot.  I 
ask for no actual historical figures, but shadow copies of historical figures are fine.  This is a bonus to my players, you can bring one of 
your favorite characters into the game history.  Don't forget, though, that this game has to focus on Amber and your alternate lineage really 
just adds character to your character.

 Here are some possibilities Zelazny might have liked:
Shadow Historical Ancestor:  Hamnet Shakespeare, the son of William Shakespeare.  Hamnet only died young in our Shadow.  I will assume 
he was as talented as his father, the Bard of Avon, and turned the head of one or more Amber Princesses.
Fictional Shadow Earth Ancestor:  Morgan Le Fay was all about raising new royals to depose of old royals by any means necessary.  She could 
so easily be talked into an alliance with a Prince of Amber.

Although I don't need to know the details now, if you are a Amber noble, try and think of a trump description, colors and a personal symbol.
Inhuman Ancestor:  Rhanda, Merlin's playmate, was a Shroudling which is a kind of vampire-like being.  Had circumstances been different, 
the two might have had kids and family dinners might have been _challenging_.

 Then again, you might simply have a 'mundane' human partner for your Amber parent to focus on the Amber side of the family.  
While I assume that most folks with Amber blood are made (ahem) the 'old-fashioned' way, there is always cloning, homoculi, blood babies, 
shadow copies, pattern-ghosts, and blood transfusion recipients among other methods of getting Amber DNA into your character.


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Oct 20, 2008)

Do you want us to bid for attributes here on this thread and if so how?


----------



## Thanee (Oct 21, 2008)

Good question.

When we played Amber back then we didn't even use the auction at all. Everyone just picked attributes and that's it. No Ranks. You have a higher Attribute, you are better at it.

Especially when you do not make a complete generation, that seems more easy to do.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 21, 2008)

I suppose that will be covered in the next post. I'll wait for it before replying to the last one, in order to make only one full description of the character.

Quick question...how far will be the game moving? Not that I am greedy and impatient to move to the 300 uber-ness, but I'd like to know the pace.


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 24, 2008)

Again, my apologies in not writing so long.  Hopefully, I can make up for lost time.

 The last post was about who your characters were (and might be again), this post will be about who your characters seem to be (even to themselves).
 Most PCs will seem to be teenagers from 13-17 (just short of adulthood), although it is possible to play someone seemingly aged into senility or other possibilities.  If your characters are old enough, they can have driver's licenses (they might still know how to drive anyway).
 For each player, they must decide how advantaged their PC is compared to the people around them.  Compared to the average character in the Amber novels, ordinary people are very minor indeed.  So I give each player a choice, your character can be superior to the people around him or her in every way (stronger, smarter, more attractive, richer, etc.).  Or you might choose to have your character be more normal or even disadvantaged compared to the average person (weaker, seemingly dumber, plain, dirt poor, etc.).  The question is WHY would you choose to voluntarily limit your character?
 I can think of a few reasons...



 One is that the more limiting the incarnation, the more effective the disguise.  Some hunters will simply consider it IMPOSSIBLE that an Amber Royal would stomach being a humble mortal peasant for long.
 Another is that doing without might strengthen the characters against their more jaded and decadent brethren.
 And it just might be FUN to play the rags-to-riches angle to its fullest.  Remember, Cinderella works better when Cinderella starts out as wretched as can be.

 Also, do you want to be part of the same family?  That is, your character believe that they are all part of the same family, perhaps even siblings (this might actually be their true relationship).  Or, for the other extreme, the characters don't know each other, at least as family.  The kids might be citizens of the same town but strangers to each other and have no idea of their relationship or specialness.  In the show SMALLVILLE, many kids have special powers simply because of being born where a kryptonite meteor shower landed (along with baby Superman) but otherwise are not related or initially ware of other 'special' kids.  Those players who want to be part of the same family might want to see if they can agree on the common details.

 I welcome any ideas you have.  But for those players who wouldn't mind a common origin and family background, here is my initial pitch...

 The Quiet Earth (QE):

 QE is one of the near-infinite versions of Shadow Earth.  Depending on party preference, QE can be exactly like our Earth except when required by the Amber setting or the game plot OR QE can be different in minor but amusing ways (for example, Kentucki Fried Lizard Partes rather than KFC).
 QE was originally a minor base for the group that would eventually become the Rebels.  After the Rebellion, the surviving Rebels fled to QE, which was their best remaining option.  Through hellriding and manipulating the timeflow of QE they were able to hide it and themselves from their pursuers.
 To completely hide themselves, it was necessary to reduce the Amber exiles to the seeming of children and for the Seneschals and Watchers to remain isolated on this lone shadow.

QE:

The game starts in QE in the here and now.
The future rebels started to influence QE for thier own purposes somewhere in Europe during the Roman Empire.
The Rebellion started sometime between these two points.  Given the immortal nature of the Rebels and the elastic timeflow, what may have days for the Rebels was centuries on QE (or vice versa).  It may that the young kids have been kids for a millennia or so but no one remembers, least of all them.

QE Now:

The game will start in the here and now on an island retreat, near a major city.  This could be a summer colony like Martha's Vineyard.
The Island has been the home of several families and groups.

The Aristocrats:  The Aristocrats are descendants of European nobility, merchant princes, robber barons and their paramours.  Still wealthy, the Aristocrats influence and power peaked during the Great Depression.  Now, they are limited to running a small fleet of cargo and cruise ships.  The youngest generation of the Aristocrats lives in luxury thanks to generous trust funds but they are expected to make something of themselves come adulthood.

The Servants:  The Servants have been the family servants of the Aristocrats for generations.  The truth is the two family trees are far more 'intertwined' than is commonly known.  In general, the offspring of a Aristocrat/Servant tryst is of the same clan as the mother (at least maternity can't be debated).  While the Aristocrats lead more luxurious lives than the Servant clan, the servants still lead a more privileged life than most people.  After all, they get to travel with the Aristocrats and partake in some of their privileged lives (necessary to serve).

The Rustics:  On the Island is an alternative community that tries to live a life from centuries before.  They try to live isolated and quietly from the world at large.  Despite this, they have become popular tourist attractions, similar to the Amish.

The Learned:  There is a ancient college on the Island.  Not quite Ivy League, the college has fallen on hard times and tries to greatly leverage its rustic charm and history by offering mainly archaic and eccentric courses.  The Learned professors and faculty are rather eccentric, even for tenured scholars.

Other Islanders:  The rest of the Island is full of just ordinary folks, most either working in the tourist or maritime industry.  There is a sense of slight difference between the Islanders and the Mainlanders but this is partly due to the occassional isolation of the Island due to storms and tides.

With that said, here are some of the things I need to know about your character choices...

First, if you don't like something in the above, let me know.  It is not too late for me to change something.

For now, assuming otherwise...

If you want your character to part of a large family of fellow special siblings (PC and/or NPCs), let me know which of the three family groups (Aristocrats, Servants, Rustics) you would like your character to be a part of?  Each family will have a different set of useful skills and advantages.  If you are part of one of the large families, you will be amongst the older children.  There will be a few children older than you (and seemingly more capable) but most of your siblings will be younger than you (and possibly look up to you for guidance).  The older children will be very similar to the Princes of Amber, most likely full siblings and differing mainly in talents and personality.  The younger children will generally be half-siblings and of odd bloodlines, making them slightly awkward and somewhat out-of-place.

 The Learned are seeming adults who work at the local college (and secretly watch their charges), it is possible that a PC could be a child of one of the Learned but this is uncommon.

Do you wish your character to be an only child?  That is, your character is not aware of any relation to the other special kids (or they them) and is probably a member of a more typical modern family.  For such onlies, do you want the Seneschals and/or Watchers to be aware of your identity.  Due to an as yet unrevealed plot device, it is possible that a character can be even hidden from his or her protectors.  The protectors will be aware that some children on the Island are special but not necessarily WHICH ones.

That's it for this post.  Let me know what you think.  I value your feedback.   Next up, actual character creation rules, hopefully by this time tomorrow...


----------



## Vertexx69 (Oct 24, 2008)

I like the idea of seperate families, where the kids all attend the same high school, but run in different circles. Then as events unfold they are thrust together like in that movie "The Faculty".

I also like the idea of a 17 year old aristocrat. A budding playboy that just seems to always have luck on his side, with the girls, the cards, the dice, and with life in general. Coupled with a quiet cool and his razor sharp mind, he is an enigma in a house full of terminally spoiled (normal) siblings. Nyjal VanTreuse seems to have school dialed in, and is already on the academic fast-track to becoming a doctor. He always seems to be able to find anything thats been lost, and just always knows where everything and indeed everyone is as soon as he walks into a room. 

Build wise: Charisma/Intelect, shape shifting, conjuration and good stuff 

He was a merc/face allied to our side without any ancestral ties to order or chaos. Grievously wounded in the battle defending one of the higher ups, he was spared and sent here with the others.


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Oct 24, 2008)

I like the idea of being closely related, such as either siblings or first cousins.  I also like the idea of starting off poor, but maybe angry and searching since we all subconsciously know we are destined for something better.

My character will start off as the second oldest of a group of four siblings residing in the servant community of families.  He isn't happy about his lot and can be a handful for his parents and sometimes of the aristocrats.  He constantly has get-rich schemes that never pan out and day dreams of himself as a super-rich noble who makes the current aristocrats supplicate themselves.  No one is aware of my character's identity, including my character.

He is intelligent and scheming, but he does have a soft spot for his younger sister who follows him around and often gets in trouble alongside him.


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 25, 2008)

I think I'll be keeping the character that I already created, making him the son of an Aristocratic family that moved to the mainland. Substitute the playing football with visiting via airplane the island, to see how is everyone.

He is above normal human intelligence-wise (several times first world student in mathematics at high school, reads a lot, many interests), and slightly above average in phisical abilities (think the average good high school football player). He has good looks, but no particular abilities in handling girls: he starts pretty honest and trusting, although this will probably change, as he is not a fool.


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 27, 2008)

*Character creation rules:  First draft...*

OK, the long awaited character creation rules, my apologies for not getting these (or any posts) to you for a couple of days...


I realize that some of you have already made great character descriptions and these rules are for any newer players who might yet show up.

You don't need to know the rules and/or make the actual characters if you don't want to.  I will be happy to make the character for you.  For those that want and don't have the rules (certainly not required for this game), you can get both books, Amber DRPG and Shadow Knight, from DriveThruRpg for about $12 each.

OK, to work...

Characters in the Amber DRPG are based on points spent.  A character with more points spent should be more powerful and capable than characters with less points spent.

For scale, a standard human is practically at 0 points, a typical starting Amber character is about 100 points and Corwin, for example, is set to about 300-500 points depending on which version of Corwin you wish to play.

In THIS game, the characters start out at effectively 0 points and then, at game's end, will end up roughly at the same level as each other (100 points unless the players agree on some different level).

So for this game, you first decision is to decide on how many points your character HAD.  

For example, Character A could have been a 500-point Shadow-busting demigod before magical reduction and Character B might just have been a newborn Amber infant about to age normally into 100 points of potential.  The game will start with both characters at effectively 0 points and end with both characters able to use 100 points of potential.  Character will end the game beginning to reclaim her full 500 points of potential (and 100/500ths of the way there) and character B will just have grown into his first 100 points worth.  Both characters will be EFFECTIVELY equal but one is born into power while the other is reborn back into grace.

So my first question is how powerful do you want your characters to have been?  Pick a number 100, 200, 500 points?  Doesn't really matter except to flavor your character.  If the players can all agree on a number, then the game might end with each of them at that same number.  Otherwise, the game will end with each character at about 100 points of themselves (which may just be a fraction of their former power).

In most Amber games, characters start the game with their points spent.  Simple abilities and powers are bought outright.  Comparitive stats (that is, stats used in competition with other characters) are bid for by each player with whatever points they have remaining until the ranking of characters in whatever given stat(s) are determined.

In this game, the bidding is delayed until such time as a determination is actually NEEDED.

For example, let's say the game begins with no players actually committing any points whatsoever.  A few posts in, a wizard sent by the Victors attempts to compel the PCs to surrender using a spell.  This would normally be resisted with the game stats of PSYCHE.

At this point, I would allow the PCs to bid points in PSYCHE, with the following rules.

Once the points are bid for a stat, they are spent for that stat  So choose wisely.  If the players wish, I will allow a re-bid.
You may bid as often as you want and as much as you have allowed in any given contest, until you won't or can't spend any more points for this encounter.
You can react to another character's bid until again, you won't or can't spend any more points.  The bidding ends when all those spending have spent all of the points they are going to.
To save time, you may declare that you will bid to win up to a set maximum of points.  And you will only spend the points necessary up to your stated maximum.  eBay veterans will be familiar with this system.

When the game starts, you will only be allowed to bid so much and only on some things.  You might have your superhuman abilities but you won't have your truly supernatural powers at game start, for example.  By the later stages of the game, the kid gloves are off and you can bid all that you have on whatever you can afford.

Concerned?  Don't be.  I realize that this entire game is an experiment and I am not out to kill you all.  The first few weeks of the game is mostly interpersonal and intellectual challenges where shrewd playing will easily outdo sharp bidding.  Also, the game does not set PCs against each other at least in the beginning (it's not necessarily that you are friends but, together, you have greater enemies.  There is an old proverb, "Me against my brother, me and my brother against my uncle; me, my brother and my uncle against the world").

At this point, I see two approaches to character-building.

The first:  Make a PROVISIONAL 100 point character and bid towards that incarnation as quickly as the game allows.  I won't hold you to your initial conception if you bid otherwise.  This approach is a good idea for those players who are pretty sure what they want in a character.

The second:  start with a description of your character as a (seemingly) mundane teen and bid from there as the game progresses.  You may end up with some unexpected and unforeseen choices in your character (which is not a bad thing).

For those ready to spend now, let me get to the specifics.

You may spend your points on whatever you could in a normal Amber game, there are no general restrictions on what you can buy.  Due to the powerful magicks hiding you, how much of your potential that you can actually USE at game start is a different thing.

nuts and bolts:

Your bids in attributes are primarily relative to each OTHER.  The character start the game with a purely HUMAN level of ability, then they quickly move to CHAOS and then their true AMBER level of proficiency.  In general, the character with, say, the highest STRENGTH amongst the characters will tend to have the highest STRENGTH still as the characters move from HUMAN, CHAOS and AMBER levels of ability.

powers:

Powers cost the most in an Amber game.  Pattern Imprint, even at its basic level costs 50 points.  I suppose it is possible for a child of an Amber prince to be without this power but such children are not in Zelazny novels.  Pattern Imprint is pretty much the basic ability to warp shadow, hellride and be immortal.   This is not required, at least one player might not play a true child of Amber, but whether to have this power or not is probably the biggest point decision you will make for your character.

Magical capabilities, Personal Items and Shadows are also available for purchase but they won't be fully usable at game start.  In fact, the character may not be fully aware of these capabilities.  For example Greyswandir, Corwin's sword, might appear to teenage Corey as a favorite pocket knife that always seems found after being lost.

You may 'buy' a friend, an ally from Amber or Chaos.  Most likely, this will one of the few family retainers that managed to escape the Victor's predations.  The friend will be particularly devoted to you but may start the game reduced like the PCs.

You can suggest Good and Bad Stuff for your character.  You may offer to combine with other players on such things as allies, items, shadows and the like.  Where possible, that will make the shared aspects either cheaper for each PC or more powerful.

Player contributions are gratefully accepted:  

The usual diary and/or Amber stories would typically be covered by your posts.  But for players who want to add maybe a side story or extra information beyond what the game requires, let me know...

Poetry would be welcomed as well.  It would be cruel for me to inflict my poems on others so I would be happy to accept other submissions.

Trumps can be descriptions or actual pictures.  Trumps of your characters DO exist but your PC's won't know about them at game start.

In general, 10 points for each player contribution up to a max. of 20 points.

the skinny;

You characters may start the game with 20 points spent if they WISH.  You don't need to spend any.  You may get up to 20 more with player contributions.  Whether you can use what you spent at game start depends on what you have bought.  The more fantastic (for Shadow Earth) the characteristic, the less accessable it will be at game start.  Attributes should work at least as comparision to the other PCs.

As always, time is against me and I will stop here.  I will add more later and I consider this a draft.  Let me know what you like or don't like.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Oct 27, 2008)

I would suggest and ending lvl of somewhere around 300-500 points, that we might have some measure of actual powers by the midway point of the game. If we only play to 100, thats like starting a D&D game at zero and quitting at lvl1 before we actually get to use any of the material that makes this a game instead just cooperative story telling about a group of normal teenagers, set against some distant fantasy backdrop that doesn't really affect us. Please don't make this be "Not Another Teen Blog 2: The Rich Kids..." as the fun of Amber was always the infinite possibilities of the shadow universe.


----------



## Thanee (Oct 28, 2008)

Agreed, though I would go with just 200, because 300-500 is really quite a lot.



kookalouris said:


> Once the points are bid for a stat, they are spent for that stat  So choose wisely.  If the players wish, I will allow a re-bid.
> You may bid as often as you want and as much as you have allowed in any given contest, until you won't or can't spend any more points for this encounter.
> You can react to another character's bid until again, you won't or can't spend any more points.  The bidding ends when all those spending have spent all of the points they are going to.




A question... normally, you can only bid when your bid is higher than the highest current bid. Is that so? Or can we just "bid" (or set) any attribute level we desire?

For example... at some point in the past, someone has set Strength to 30 and is now the strongest. Later in another situation, one with Strength of [A] wants to raise it (i.e. to 10). Is that possible? Or would that one have to go to 31 at least?

And how does this part figure in...



> In general, the character with, say, the highest STRENGTH amongst the characters will tend to have the highest STRENGTH still as the characters move from HUMAN, CHAOS and AMBER levels of ability.




...if we do not even know who is the strongest yet, or does it change all the time, after each new bidding for the same attribute?

I only really see this being possible (unless the ranks shift around, that is) when everyone has made a character and is working towards that goal (i.e. option 1 from the following).



> The first:  Make a PROVISIONAL 100 point character and bid towards that incarnation as quickly as the game allows.  I won't hold you to your initial conception if you bid otherwise.  This approach is a good idea for those players who are pretty sure what they want in a character.
> 
> The second:  start with a description of your character as a (seemingly) mundane teen and bid from there as the game progresses.  You may end up with some unexpected and unforeseen choices in your character (which is not a bad thing).




The first probably makes more sense overall, but the second certainly has some appeal. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 28, 2008)

Hmm....here is a provisional character (not 100 points build, I am making this just as a general reference)

Psyche: Bid to be very good at it
Endurance: Bid to be good
Strenth: don't bid
Warfare: don't bid

Sorcery
Personal magic items, named and numbered (around 30 points)

Eventually Design attunement and other goodies.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Agreed, though I would go with just 200, because 300-500 is really quite a lot.




Well you have to consider that PbP takes way longer than a tabletop version of this game (which already takes ages ;p). At 3 posts a week, it could very well take 6 months before we are considered "starting level" amberites. If it takes longer than that to say every single thought that could possibly enter a "normal" teenager's mind, then we have other issues we should be dealing with . I have yet to see an "active game" even last that long here on enworld. This site is wonky enough without 4 people's real lives getting in the way of this hobby. So by setting a higher goal, we might be able to keep everyone interested longer.

[sblock=Provisional Character] (I remember next nothing about the game system.) Starting 20 points in yellow

Psyche: 5-20
Endurance: 5
Strength: 5
Warfare: 5-10 (theres more than 1 kind of warfare- social, psychological, etc.)
Goodstuff: (1) 2
Shapeshifting: 10-20 (advanced?)
Conjuration: ? (don't remember the price. There several different types, but I have 20-25 points left over)[/sblock]


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 29, 2008)

Hmmm, 'teen Amber,' eh?  We could form an eternal boy band.  Corwin could be the dreamy but sullen one. (sorry, couldn't resist  )

OK, I actually have some spare time.  I hope to put it to good use...

A couple of questions I forgot to ask a couple of posts ago.

Where do you want the Island?   Modern travel and communication plus the wealth to use them means you aren't really far from anywhere in the Quiet Earth.    

So the questions is really one of local color (or maybe colour).  Whether a climatic battle takes place in a 'indian graveyard', ring of Sarcen stones, or a tropical lagoon is up to you.

I can think of roughly three rough choices.

New England Summer Colony/Fishing Town:  This choice has the advantage of being the closest to the Amber novels, which started in New York state.

European Island, especially near France/Scandainavia/British Isles:  Zelazny based the Amber Chronicles on Celtic and Norse mythology as much as anything else.  And Europe is one of the few places where I can accent the ancient and medieval.

Paradise Island:  An island of tropical beauty, perhaps in the Carribbean or the South Seas.  A place where people go to escape the mundane.  Like the game, a deliberate choice of exile.

I remember that Deuce Traveler is from Hawaii and Thanee is from Germany so I realize we have a cosmopolitan group.  The Island will be fictional but I will base it on real suggestions.

Also, do you want this game to be your character's first exile?  This may be the latest in a series of of narrow escapes, the last of a series of different shadows, tounges and faces.

Next up, some more character creation notes...

Thanee, you don't have to bid to beat the strongest.  You can actively bid to, say, remain second in STRENGTH but still stronger against your enemies.  In short, you can bid as little as you wish as well as as much as you have left.

The early part of the game will have you starting at HUMAN levels of ability, then CHAOS, then fully AMBER.  These progressions will happen as plot devices.  Until you reach AMBER level, the different points you bid in each attribute help rank you relative to each OTHER.  If you have a higher STRENGTH than character B at game start, it will be higher than B when you are 'merely' human, then chaotic, then the normal Amber level players are probably used to (that is, unless B bids more).  Let me know if this answered your questions.

Short answer, don't worry to much, just bid to your conception of your finished character and things will take care of themselves...


----------



## kookalouris (Oct 29, 2008)

OK, let's get to actual character notes...

Here is what I need from each of you.

Current Name:
Current Age (from 13-17):
Current Family (you can simply make up a clan, if two or more players want to have their characters from the same family, let me know):
Description:  This is up to you.  I don't want to stifle your creative instincts and if I need more info, I will ask.  The general rule is that the more you give me, the more I can use for you.  The character descriptions I have up to now are fine.

Some things I can use for the description:

Your apparent life up to now:

Other characters in your life:  Feel free to make up some other family members, friends, enemies and acquaintances.  I will attempt to work them in.  If you have actually BOUGHT an ally, this is where you might describe them (if they are part of the exile).

How you rate in terms or social standing and general ability to other peers:  This lets me know what you can do and hints at your attitude towards others.  As far as I concerned, you can be the best or luckiest that is humanly possible.

Physical Description:  Beyond being a teenager, it is up to you.  (Hint:  Your face and form can have changed over the ages, not just counting your sudden 'youthing.').

The rest is generally optional.

Your character's true past, which you can reveal to the players, just to me (via a message), leave undetermined for now, or up to me to some degree.  You can be freely related to a Zelazny character if you wish.  Should you be a actual royal descendant, you may want to suggest your once and future personal symbol and trump.  You can bend continuity if there is no real objection.

You may spend your beginning points if you wish.  If you have an idea of how much you want to spend, go ahead and spend to your max.  If you want to bid  competitively and reactively, let me suggest that you take it slow as we bid until no one bids anymore.  If you want to bid secretly, message or email me.

For what it is worth, I don't see the first part of the game being a struggle BETWEEN player characters.  The later part of the game is up to you but I don't plan to particularly pit you against each other.  As both secret and competitive bidding will take a little more effort than simply bidding outright, I ask that you only use these methods if that is the method you wish to play.


Next up, Llewella as an example...

Copyright prevents me from posting Llewella's character stats from the book.  But this version of 'Lily' is inspired by them.

Assuming the extra points from her trump and description gives 40 points, roughly 1/5 of the 200 point version.

So,

PSYCHE:    9
STRENGTH:    7
ENDURANCE:    3
WARFARE    7

Total:        26 points

The rest of Llewella's points are unspent because the only other things the 'official' 200 version of Llewella has is power words which she won't really start the game able to use (or even knows about).  But another player might add an ally or an item.

Current Name:    Lily Ellen D'Amberville (the Aristocratic family, more on them later).
Current Age:    17
Current Family: The D'Ambervilles
Description:  Lily is one of the older children of the D'Ambervilles.  Quiet and seemingly aloof, the green-eyed girl spends most her time in solitary pursuits.  Her one passion is the ocean around her and she excels in swimming and all things nautical.

Previous Life:  Llewella, Princess of Amber became part of the exiles and rebels after some as yet unrevealed conflict.  Whether she volunteered or had no better option is yet to be told...


I will try and start the game on Sunday but the first week will be at a slow enough pace that others can take a week to join...


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 30, 2008)

Current Name: Steve Jennsen
Current Age (from 13-17): 17
Current Family: Jennsen. The Jennsen are a "cousin" to one of the aristocratic families of the Island (if any aristocratic pc is willing to be that cousin family, I will happy to accept the link). They transferred to the area between Chicago and New York around the first half of the 19th century, and since then made their fortune on wall street, and formed some storical companies on the American business landscape (think JP Morgan or successful companies which later were broken by antitrust laws). The family became quite branched, but they stay together and gather once per week if possible. The main branch (of which Steve is the heir) is relatively famous among the social elite for the fact that when the heir reaches the age of 18, they suspend their funding for schools, and when they finish the bachelor degree, the family suspends any funding, until they prove themselves as capable of managing money (which requires at least 10-15 years). Of course, the family is willing to lend money. As for now, Steve has been surpassing the standards, but his father things that he is too honest. Being honest is not bad, as an ethical behaviour is good for the long run and for the reputation, but he fears that his son is going to be disillusioned quickly if he gets into the vicious business without preparation. Hopefully, Harvard, with the bunch of elitist bastards that make a great part of it (father's personal opinion), is going to be a good preparation

Description: Same as before. I will probably expand it later, or in the first post of the game.

Other characters in your life: 
Father: Famous businessman, heads a consulting company. A real mentor for Steve, has shaped him.

Mother: Successful Wall street broker, has retired 8 years ago in order to be better able to raise Steve's three sisters, aged 9-11-13 respectively. As a result, they are more linked to her than Steve, but he is not a stranger anyway. It's just that where in the "serious" part of life Steve was mentored by the father, they are mentored by both mother and father, which may be better or worse.

Relatives
-perhaps one of the PC as cousin
-A sweet 17 year cousin girl which swings the innocent Steve around as she wishes, manipulating him freely. He is not so naive as to not realize it eventually, but she *is *sweet and nice, so he doesn't mind. She is an islander
-Another 2 cousins, one male and female, one on the mainland and another on the island (the combinations up to the DM). Both of them are jealous of Steve: the mainlander because he dislikes the supposed advantage that Steve, as heir of the main branch, has on him. The islander dislikes Steve because his/her parents don't allow him/her as much freedom as Steve apparently has.
-The (grand?)mother of a very distant islander relative, who wants to marry him her daughter.


How you rate in terms or social standing and general ability to other peers: Extremely smart and usually very popular. Smarts, combined with a "nice guy" look, athletic ability above the average and family/money, make him somewhat of a celebrity. His father forced into his skull the fact that he has to avoid being arrogant: self deception and not-cool and objective judgment are the worse enemies of a successful man. 

Thus he is generally honest, nice, puts somewhat too much faith in other people, especially relatives (yes, I know, bad thing for an amberite or chaosite ). A little bit aloof sometimes, but otherwise socially capable. Doesn't go out of his way to be liked by people or to be popular, however.

For the true past, let what I already pubblished be true, and be known by all watchers/guardians and thus, after a while, Steve itself and the other PC. I may pm you something.


I don't want to oppose other players, so I don't really care for bidding. Of course, I am not particularly opposed to it either: I'd like to ensure being the first-psyche.

First 20 points: 11 psyche, 4 endurance, 1 warfare, 4 in good stuff.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Oct 31, 2008)

I thought good stuff costed 10 point each. But if it only costs 1 each then I want 10


----------



## Nightbreeze (Oct 31, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:


> I thought good stuff costed 10 point each. But if it only costs 1 each then I want 10



? I have no idea. There are several characters with good stuff 1-3-5 or bad staff something, so I thought you can buy as much as you want. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Besides, that good stuff is going to be spent in powers later on.


----------



## kookalouris (Nov 7, 2008)

My sincere apologies for apparently dropping off of the face of the internet for about a week or so.  My trusty laptop hasn't been lately and I have been forced to do what I can on the work computer (when the boss isn't watching).  Please don't think I have lost interest and please give me just a few more days to scrape my data together...


----------



## Nightbreeze (Nov 9, 2008)

no problem. I prefer the thread to be slow before the beginning than after the beginning


----------



## magic_gathering2001 (Nov 9, 2008)

This sounds interesting, and I'd like to play.  Unfortunately, I have absolutely no clue at all.  If you are willing to hold my hand through it for a while, I'll take the spot of the girl cousing Jensen on the island.

Being ignorant of the rules, I'll opt to play a new 'amberite'.  I'm not exactly sure what the stats mean, so I'll do that later.

For the concept of the teen.  I'll be a fairly shy girl (for aristocracy anyway) who feels eclipsed by her cousin.  Possessing no special talents, save a slight knack for writing, she is still home schooled on the island.  Her brother and sister are both exceptional in their own right, so its fairly rare that she does something noteworthy.  Nevertheless, she tries to win the family's approval at anything she does.  She acts formally, in addition to her jealousy, towards her entire family. Secretly, she has a supressed crush/hero worship toward the cousin that is everything she isn't.

I'm not sure how the points work for now, so I won't do that.  If someone could please explain that, I would appreciate it.


----------



## Nightbreeze (Nov 9, 2008)

Basically, in normal amber games, you have 100 points to distribute on your character. There is extreme flexibility on what you can buy with those points, from ranks in one of the four main attributes (psyche, endurance, strength, warfare), to powers (design attunement, logrus attunement, trump mastery, sorcery, power words, conjuration), magic items, personal shadows (worlds), allies, etc. Infact, there are so many things you can buy that you are forced to chose a scant few of them.

The rules are very interpretation-based. In the sense that there are no actual rules for battle: it is very descriptive, and while generally, if going for straight sword combat, the character with superior warfare stat wins, with creative use of the environment, or by shifting the combat to a stat where you have supremacy (go for grappling after a feint), you can win.

As for the stats...it is up to you on how much to invest in them. I have no actual experience of amber games, but feel like you have to find that nice balance that leaves you capable of facing opponents, but at the same time doesn't eat up too much points that you can spend on powers. And creative use of powers and magic items counts a lot (but they are additions to combat. the heart of combat is about the 4 stats, and about warfare mostly). Several characters, however, in the second series of amber, are focused on spellcasting (merlin, mandor, jasra), and they can kick ass pretty seriously (especially merlin with the spikard...cheater...  and mandor with his steel spheres).

Also, you should know that even one point in those skills sets you far above a general human...you can think of humans as having -25 in each skill, with -10 for the greatest achievers in the world. But those points we distributed are just hypotetical. At the beginning of the game, everybody is a human...a very successful human, or an unsuccessful one, but still human.


----------



## Thondor (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi,

Just found this thread today. I'm a little pressed for time so I haven't read all the details up-thread. But I'm definately interested in joining (I have the Amber RPG book and have read  all the books). The premises for the campaign that I've seen so far seem very interesting. Hopefully I can dig more into the ideas above and come up with some character thoughts in the next few days. (Although my internet has been wonky for some time . . .)

As for most of the background details, I have to say surprises can be the best here. The learning process is the most can be the mos interesting part. In someways I'd rather be surprised what my parentage/the current state of affairs is. Other then stating my characters 'current' position . . .

Anyway, more when I've thought/read more.

I must enquire as to whether the premise assumes that we have one of Logurus / Pattern/ Shapechange already?


----------



## magic_gathering2001 (Nov 9, 2008)

So, how horrible of an idea would it be to put a single point in each main stat, and spend the rest on powers?  Also, what non-stat powers are available at creation.  (I saw something about item and allies, but I'm not sure what that means...)


----------



## Nightbreeze (Nov 9, 2008)

As far as I know, you should have at least one good stat. Sorcery, magic words and conjuration all depend on psyche. Shape shifting depends on something too, and so on. So you need at least one good stat. If you manage to get your hands on the manuals, they explain everything.


----------



## magic_gathering2001 (Nov 9, 2008)

Would I have to buy them for that?  I don't have all that much money atm...

Anway, what would summoning be based on?  Would it just be magic or something else?


----------



## Thondor (Nov 16, 2008)

Had nice long post and lost it.

In brief

Xander
Psyche: High but not highest
Strength: Amber
Warfare: Low
Endurance: High

Logurus, possibly shapeshifting and spellcasting
Artifact: 
Leather coat, chainmail, tech-bodyarmor, cloak, undergarments, gloves perhaps other forms (especially for possible alternate forms)
Alternate named and numbered forms/shapes (2 points)
Invulnerable to all conventional weapons (4 points)
Extra hard (1point)

Decendant of Amber, grew up partially at Courts of Chaos 'in hiding'.
Young when force into current state.

overconfident. believes he can always decern a weakness that will allow him to better practically any situation/person. 

hope this game gets on track.


----------



## Thondor (Nov 18, 2008)

magic_gathering2001 said:


> Would I have to buy them for that?  I don't have all that much money atm...
> 
> Anway, what would summoning be based on?  Would it just be magic or something else?




Have you read the Amber novels? If not I suggest that at the least you try to get _Nine Princes in Amber_ from your library if possible. It's a short read only about 160pages if I recall correctly, and quite frankly excellent. It will give you some basic ideas of the premises of what we are playing here. (though it won't give you any ideas of the cosmic power struggle, that occur in the later books.)

Depends on what you mean by summoning. On the one hand it would be the Logurus (Courts of Chaos's version of the pattern) costs 45points. With it you can 'summon' a sword from shadow, or a cup of coffee. Or pull yourself towards the desired object . . . On the other hand it could be conjuration (20 points) but to be honest I'm kinda confused on the rules for conjuration.        
Generally you want Pattern (50points) or Logurus(45) in order to manipulate shadow -- the main premise of the Amber universe. Its possible to manipulate shadow using Advanced Shapeshifting (65 points) to move through shadow, or to follow someone else through shadow, or use a personal artifact to follow 'trails' through shadow . . .
Most go with Pattern or Logurus though.
(I'll note here that 'most' games start with 100 points at character creation)


----------



## Thondor (Nov 19, 2008)

Is there still interest in this? I don't want to spend to much time planning things if its not still feasible.


----------



## Nightbreeze (Nov 19, 2008)

Dunno...seems like the DM is having a busy RL. Still, for the chance of having an Amber game, I'm willing to wait for him to have more free time.


----------



## magic_gathering2001 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thondor said:


> Have you read the Amber novels?...



No, but I'll look into it now.  Even if this doesn't turn out.

@Nightbreeze: Did you get the PM i sent you?


----------



## Thondor (Nov 21, 2008)

magic_gathering2001 said:


> No, but I'll look into it now.  Even if this doesn't turn out.




They are certainly worth the read! One of my favourite series, probably read most of them 5 times and I have the first five books on tape. I think there is some inconsistencies between the books about the nature of the 'Amberverse' but that just means we as players have more options.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm more of a Douglas Adams kind of guy myself. Hitchhikers guide forever! But from what I remember of the Amber series from when I read it a decade ago, it was a fairly interesting read. Pretty fast read too, I think it took me only a couple weeks to read both sets. 
From the beginning we knew this would be a slower game than most other games on the board (cringing to think of the eshaton game I've been playing for over a year here on enworld).


----------



## Thanee (Nov 21, 2008)

magic_gathering2001 said:


> No, but I'll look into it now.  Even if this doesn't turn out.




The books (the first five especially) are really good. You surely won't regret reading them. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Nightbreeze (Nov 21, 2008)

magic_gathering2001 said:


> No, but I'll look into it now.  Even if this doesn't turn out.
> 
> @Nightbreeze: Did you get the PM i sent you?



Yes, but I've been pretty busy these days. I'll what I can do in the week-end, hoping that my internet connection doesn't betray me.


----------



## magic_gathering2001 (Nov 22, 2008)

alright, just checking.


----------



## Thondor (Nov 25, 2008)

How much has anyone considered using stuff from the Courts of Chaos book?

I don't have the book myself, and I only ever read one brief discription so I don't know much about its contents.


----------



## Thondor (Dec 3, 2008)

Mostly a bump for this tread but . . .  And I'm not trying to step on toes here, but if kookalouris hasn't put in a appearance by say Janurary, would anyone consider running/playing in a different Amber game?


----------



## Vertexx69 (Dec 4, 2008)

I gave up on this game about 2 weeks ago when I did my last post. I've jumped into 2 others since then so my plate is pretty full atm. If the vamp game doesn't go anywhere then sure I'd be up for an amber game.


----------



## Thanee (Dec 7, 2008)

That pretty much sums up my current situation as well. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Nightbreeze (Dec 13, 2008)

Same for me...I would maaybe be able to play, but certainly not to dm. Seems like we will have to wait another couple of years


----------



## Deuce Traveler (Dec 17, 2008)

Ah well... so it goes often in the blogosphere...


----------

