# Survivor - Fiji (spoilers)



## Mark CMG (Feb 9, 2007)

Get your early picks in for who is going to win!


----------



## Hand of Evil (Feb 9, 2007)

Not yet, but a couple of people I dislike already.


----------



## Mark CMG (Feb 9, 2007)

Here's the list of players.


Survivor Fiji Tribes

Captain - Sylvia (Divided up the teams then went to exile island)

- Green Moto
Cassandra
Liliana (voted out episode four)
Stacy
Lisi
Dreamz
Boo
Gary (left for medical reasons)
Alex
Edgardo

- Orange Ravu
Michelle
Erica (voted out episode two)
Rita (voted out episode five)
Jessica (voted out episode one)
James
Earl
Yau Man
Anthony
Mookie
Sylvia (moved to Ravu when Jessica was voted out, voted out episode three)


*EDIT* THE TRIBES HAVE CHANGED - 03-21-2007

- Green Moto
Dreamz
Alex
Edgardo
James (voted out episode seven)
Anthony (voted out episode six)
Mookie
Lisi (voted out episode eight)

- Orange Ravu
Boo
Stacy
Cassandra
Michelle
Earl
Yau Man

*edit* After the merge . . .

Dreamz
Alex (voted out episode twelve)
Edgardo (voted out episode ten)
Mookie (voted out episode eleven)
Boo
Stacy (voted out episode thirteen)
Cassandra
Michelle (voted out episode nine)
Earl
Yau Man


----------



## John Crichton (Feb 9, 2007)

I haven't a pick for the winner just yet but I will say that the high stakes of the first challenge made this the best opening ep of the season in quite a while.  The jungle-trek opening was good but topped by this one.

I'm glad the producers weren't afraid to mix things up big-time this season.


----------



## ASH (Feb 13, 2007)

I find that when they have a season opener with the entire tribes on only one island the people seem to blend together. Where as the last couple seasons where they started off with 4 on a tribe i got to know the seperate players way sooner and became more invested in the show. 

Like i cant remember most of the people on the island name at this point.. But last season i could remember at least a fourth of the people if not much more after just 1 episode.  

But there are a few that stand out that i dont care for. 
No one really stands out all around to be a great survivor... i dont know if i like the premise of this season. Will be watching to see how it all turns out.


----------



## Mark CMG (Feb 16, 2007)

Ravu's situation just keeps getting worse and worse.


----------



## John Crichton (Feb 16, 2007)

Yeah, should be fun going forward to see how much they play up the underdog angle as we approach "mutiny/tribe switch-up" twist time.


----------



## Mark CMG (Feb 16, 2007)

Going back to the first episode, I'm assuming since they planted the note about the (a idol) being back at the camp before they knew which of the tribes would lose the first challenge, and since they said there would be two immunity idols, that there is one hidden on each island.


----------



## Arnwyn (Feb 16, 2007)

Your assumption is correct - they said such a thing in entertainment reports, earlier.

Cheering for Ravu and my early favorite is Yau Man... but everyone else I consider 'faceless peons' at this point.


----------



## Mark CMG (Feb 16, 2007)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Your assumption is correct - they said such a thing in entertainment reports, earlier.





Thanks for the confirmation.




			
				Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Cheering for Ravu and my early favorite is Yau Man... but everyone else I consider 'faceless peons' at this point.





They tend to make sure we get a decent look at whoever is potentially on the chopping block, along with a red herring or two, as well as a number of others who do something unusual or exceptional.  I particularly like the commment about Boo injuring himself out of the game.


----------



## Mark CMG (Feb 23, 2007)

That big man took a tumble.  Was he more worried about dying in Fiji or on a game show?


----------



## John Crichton (Feb 23, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> That big man took a tumble.  Was he more worried about dying in Fiji or on a game show?



 Heheh.  :shrugs:

Ravu is still getting creamed.  One of these weeks they have to pull one off.  I was almost certain the idol would come into play last night and it almost did.  Doh.

Anthony nearly in tears for the previews next week looks interesting.  He choked (pun intended) in the immunity challenge big time.  He deserved to get the boot.  Oh well.


----------



## Mark CMG (Mar 4, 2007)

Two more gone.


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 4, 2007)

I was surprised that Moto let the game be tied up and got rid of a strong player at the same time.  I can see wanting to keep the superior camp as it should keep moral up, not to mention all the food and the undefeated streak - but wow.


----------



## Mark CMG (Mar 9, 2007)

Everyone voted off thus far has been female.  Looks like the groups get gerrymandered next episode.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Mar 9, 2007)

I still can't believe those idiots opted to vote a member of their tribe out, giving up their numerical dominance, rather than give up their camp. Especially after just having one member quit. Stupid- this is Survivor, not "Luxury Island".

At this point, the only ones I like are Earl and Yao-Man on Ravu, and Alex and Edgardo on the other team, and only just because they seem to actually be smartening up (though they should have done so last week, and kept Liliana from being voted off).


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 10, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I still can't believe those idiots opted to vote a member of their tribe out, giving up their numerical dominance, rather than give up their camp. Especially after just having one member quit. Stupid- this is Survivor, not "Luxury Island".



I thought the same thing until remembering that the other tribe hasn't won a single thing yet and lost the reward challenge and immunity because they were so under-fed, so much so that they couldn't think straight and win a non-physical challenge.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Mar 11, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I thought the same thing until remembering that the other tribe hasn't won a single thing yet and lost the reward challenge and immunity because they were so under-fed, so much so that they couldn't think straight and win a non-physical challenge.




There is that, yes, but by choosing to vote someone out at this early stage, they started the infighting that otherwise would have taken more time to develop and set themselves up for fragmenting. We already see the seeds of this developing with Dreams and Cassandra, among other things.

Plus, the other thing to bear in mind is that they will likely be doing a merge before too long, and I'd imagine the merged tribe will keep the good camp. Although it's not guaranteed, and would be a good twist if not.


----------



## Mark CMG (Mar 13, 2007)

So, March 21st is the next episode and I'd love nothing better than to see Stacy and Lisi get their due for the karmic turd they dropped last episode.


----------



## sckeener (Mar 13, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> So, March 21st is the next episode and I'd love nothing better than to see Stacy and Lisi get their due for the karmic turd they dropped last episode.




21st?  Darn spring break!  It messes with the show times.  

Either Lisi or Stacy getting trashed would be a nice thing.  

I was very pleased when Moto picked luxury over voting someone off.  We hadn't seen them playing the survivor game yet (aka diplomacy) until then.  Now they've got strife and it is beautiful.


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 13, 2007)

If anyone has seen the previews, it should be an ep worth waiting for.


----------



## Mark CMG (Mar 22, 2007)

I wonder who Rocky will pick on now that his primary target is gone?


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 22, 2007)

Prolly Lisi.  I'm hoping he calms down a bit with some food in his belly.  What he needs is a win.  Just one.  Hasn't had one yet.  That should chill him out a bit.


----------



## Arnwyn (Mar 22, 2007)

Maybe the new chick showing up (who admitted she had an "abrasive personality" [you don't say?])? She'll likely get what's coming to her (I hope) and then Rocky will get what's coming to him.

In any case, Yau Man FTW!


----------



## SWBaxter (Mar 22, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> I wonder who Rocky will pick on now that his primary target is gone?




Dreamz or Lisi, I'd imagine. I'm thinking Rocky probably goes next from that team, he doesn't seem to have thought the politics through all that well. The other team is kinda interesting, it looks like the factions are going to break down as Earl plus allies vs. Boo plus allies, but voting either of them out before the merge is probably a bad idea in terms of winning challenges. Might turn into an interesting proxy fight with Yau Man and Stacy on the chopping block.


----------



## sckeener (Mar 26, 2007)

SWBaxter said:
			
		

> Dreamz or Lisi, I'd imagine. I'm thinking Rocky probably goes next from that team, he doesn't seem to have thought the politics through all that well.




I'm thinking Lisi.  It all just depends on how she takes going from luxury to nothing but fire.  Hopefully she learned a bit in exile.  

I think you are dead on about Rocky and politics.  He should have played a quieter hand after the teams reformed.  Half the team didn't know anything about the other half and now he's projected a bad image.  

Having said that I think he stands a chance to survive a bit longer if he makes it past the next curling.


----------



## Mark CMG (Mar 30, 2007)

Rocky VII 


Mookie, having not voted for Rocky, now has a friend on the jury.


----------



## Ghostwind (Mar 30, 2007)

I wish Rocky hadn't made the jury. He's one contestant I absolutely despise.


----------



## Demmero (Mar 30, 2007)

It'll be a hoot if someone finds Yau Man's fake immunity idol (he even painted I.I. on it!!).

It'll be funnier still if that person actually believes it to be real.


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 30, 2007)

So, we learned that the jury will have 10 members?  Or there will be a final 3 again and there will be 9 jury members?


----------



## sckeener (Mar 30, 2007)

Demmero said:
			
		

> It'll be a hoot if someone finds Yau Man's fake immunity idol (he even painted I.I. on it!!).
> 
> It'll be funnier still if that person actually believes it to be real.




I loved it.  I doubt it'll work if they keep sending the same people back to exile island.   Earl doesn't need it and no one else will get the clues to look for it otherwise.


----------



## Arnwyn (Mar 30, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> So, we learned that the jury will have 10 members?  Or there will be a final 3 again and there will be 9 jury members?



I think it'll be 9 jury members and a final 3. I highly doubt that there'll be an even number of jury members unless they've come up with some other weird new thing.


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 30, 2007)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> I think it'll be 9 jury members and a final 3. I highly doubt that there'll be an even number of jury members unless they've come up with some other weird new thing.



 I thought it was weird that we got that reveal (whatever it is) in a final testimonial.

Ya know?


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 30, 2007)

sckeener said:
			
		

> I loved it.  I doubt it'll work if they keep sending the same people back to exile island.   Earl doesn't need it and no one else will get the clues to look for it otherwise.



 That would be my strategy.  Keeps the idol where you know who may have it and can plan a vote around it.


----------



## Mark CMG (Mar 30, 2007)

Demmero said:
			
		

> It'll be a hoot if someone finds Yau Man's fake immunity idol (he even painted I.I. on it!!).
> 
> It'll be funnier still if that person actually believes it to be real.





That might be the funniest Survivor moment I've seen yet.


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 30, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> That might be the funniest Survivor moment I've seen yet.



 It would rank up there pretty high on the unintentional comedy scale.  But Yau Man's reaction to the whole idol thing and making out with the little turtle will be pretty tough to beat...


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Mar 30, 2007)

I'm pretty sure they've confirmed elsewhere that they were going to be sticking with the Final 3 format indefinitely. Not sure where I read that (probably an interview with Jeff Probst somewhere online). Something to the effect of liking how it affects strategy going into the endgame.


----------



## Silver Moon (Mar 31, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> Rocky VII   Mookie, having not voted for Rocky, now has a friend on the jury.



Except based upon his closing remarks it doesn't appear that Rocky noticed that fact.


----------



## John Crichton (Mar 31, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure they've confirmed elsewhere that they were going to be sticking with the Final 3 format indefinitely. Not sure where I read that (probably an interview with Jeff Probst somewhere online). Something to the effect of liking how it affects strategy going into the endgame.



 It's possible.  I've really tried hard to avoid all articles/spoilers for this season of Survivor and The Amazing Race.  More fun for me.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 1, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> Except based upon his closing remarks it doesn't appear that Rocky noticed that fact.




If he didn't catch it right away, maybe he will find out about it prior to the end of the season (and before the finale).  I don't doubt it is why Mookie voted that way, so it would be a shame if it was missed.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 6, 2007)

Moto Lisi, Moto Lisi,
Men unclaimed you . . .


`Bout time, IMO.  Plus, good to see that, of those three (Alex, Edguardo, and Mookie), it was Mookie who got the immunity idol.  Nothing personal against the other two, but Mookie needed to catch a break since he's been on the tough island the whole time and hadn't had very strong players with which to make a solid alliance up until the split.

I'm looking to see Stacy get the boot soon, too.  The way that she and Lisi treated Dreamz and Casandra early in the game needs to be finally redressed.  I have no doubt that Stacy is just hoping that all or most of her old alliance buddies hang on until the merge.  It'll be interesting to see the faces of the Ravu people when the next challenge comes up.  I think Stacy will see the writing on the wall when she sees that Lisi is gone and realizes that Alex and/or Edguardo must have voted Lisi off, thus the old alliance is definitely broken and unlikely to reform when the merge comes along.  I think after the next reward challenge, before the next immunity challenge, we're going to see Stacy scrambling with Boo to make a new alliance with anyone in Moto who will listen.

I think Earl will need to get Yau Man, Cassandra, and Michelle together to firm up their fearsome foursome alliance.  I bet we hear some talk about what to do after the merge, too, from the fearsome foursome about Mookie and Dreamz as a potential fifth person to add post-merge.

Then, again, maybe they will merge at the start of the next show, or allow Ravu to choose one member of Moto to come join them, or rescramble the tribes again, or feed someone to the sharks or that Orca they keep showing! 

Anyway, we'll see what really happens soon enough.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Apr 7, 2007)

Lisi's decision to tell them the immunity idol clues is as dumb as those guys then telling Mookie, who's not even in their alliance, about it.

I thought it was pretty funny of the editors to have Michelle saying that she and Stacy fill the same role, and then show both cute Asian girls laying out on the beach together. Yes, the marginal-utility-beyond-eyecandy role definitely is filled by both of you.


----------



## sckeener (Apr 9, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> Lisi's decision to tell them the immunity idol clues is as dumb as




I hope Lisi gets royally ticked when she watches the series and sees that she lost the immunity idol through her own dumb actions....

I'm glad she is gone.  I didn't see anything that she brought to the table.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 9, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> I thought it was pretty funny of the editors to have Michelle saying that she and Stacy fill the same role, and then show both cute Asian girls laying out on the beach together. Yes, the marginal-utility-beyond-eyecandy role definitely is filled by both of you.




I actually started to like Michelle after last week's episode. She did a good job as the caller in the immunity challenge, and then- at least the way they edited things- she seemed to be the major force behind their deciphering of the "cannibal island" clue, which shows she's got a pretty good head on her shoulders.

Mainly, I thought it was hysterical how she fell off the platform while calling out to Yao Man.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 10, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I actually started to like Michelle after last week's episode.





I thought she might be a good sleeper pick to click but now that they have shown her more, perhaps she being set up for a fall (pun intended).


----------



## sckeener (Apr 10, 2007)

Odd question,  how many camera men are there on survivor?  Is there a camera man for every person?  That way if they all split up there is a cameraman for everyone?  

I guess the reason this question came to me was I wonder what happens during editing.  I wonder what scenes they cut....who they chose to focus on this week because they know what happens next week...how much do we get jerked around because of editing....

For me this is my first time watching survivor.  I have avoided all the ones before, but my fiance likes the series....hence I'm watching it.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 10, 2007)

I know that the show doesn't air within a week of being taped, anyway.  There's an online Survivor Live show you can watch through the CBS website -

http://www.cbs.com/innertube/

- (the episodes are also available there the day after being televised, including all the way back to the season premiere).  Within a couple of days of the episode, Survivor Live will have the person who was last voted off the show.  Recent dump-ee Rocky appeared to have gained a good twenty pounds.  I think I had heard that all contestants have NDAs until after a season finale has aired, so I assumed they tape the whole thing and then edit the episodes to put together as compelling a season as possible, whilst taking full advantage of the whole cast to weave a confusing through-line.  Hard to say if they focus on someone new to show how well they are doing or to make sure we see them for at least a little bit before they get axed.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 14, 2007)

Bye-Bye, Michelle.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 14, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> Bye-Bye, Michelle.



 That sucked.


----------



## Silver Moon (Apr 14, 2007)

I can't believe that idiot told Dreamz about the Idol!   Some people are clueless.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 14, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> I can't believe that idiot told Dreamz about the Idol!   Some people are clueless.



 Agreed, that was stupid.


----------



## el-remmen (Apr 15, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> I can't believe that idiot told Dreamz about the Idol!   Some people are clueless.




I would have done it, too.

And I'm no idiot (most of the time).

I think Mookie was already starting to feel like he was gonna be squeezed out and was trying to get Dreamz on his side for support.  Dreamz is the idiot for not voting out, uh. .. what's her name. . .  Stacy.


----------



## sckeener (Apr 15, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> I think Mookie was already starting to feel like he was gonna be squeezed out and was trying to get Dreamz on his side for support.  Dreamz is the idiot for not voting out, uh. .. what's her name. . .  Stacy.




agreed.  I think Mookie realized he was in trouble and tried to reach out to Dreamz...

unfortunately I think he should have done it when he was alone with Dreamz and painted it as the others wanted him not to tell Dreamz.

Dreamz is an idiot for not voting out Stacy....I think he gets off on being the deciding vote....  The illusion of power.

likewise I am not sure confronting Dreamz about his stupidity is the wisest thing Mookie could do as we saw in the previews....


----------



## SWBaxter (Apr 19, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> I can't believe that idiot told Dreamz about the Idol!   Some people are clueless.




The way the hidden idols work, I think there's actually a lot of value to having people know you've got it, but only when the votes are fairly close. If nobody knows you have it, then you need a real good idea of whether you're a target since you have to play it before the votes are read. OTOH if they do know you have it, they're less likely to vote for you in the first place, and you've got a bargaining chip to insert yourself into the winning alliance. Now, I dunno if Mookie has thought that through completely, but it's at least possible that he has the idea that he can stay allied with Ed and Alex for now and yet also be relatively safe if Earl's alliance gets the upper hand.



			
				sckeener said:
			
		

> Odd question, how many camera men are there on survivor? Is there a camera man for every person? That way if they all split up there is a cameraman for everyone?




Yeah, I believe so. That gets easier as the game goes on, of course. From interviews I've read from past participants, it's safe to assume the players are filmed almost 24/7.



> I guess the reason this question came to me was I wonder what happens during editing. I wonder what scenes they cut....who they chose to focus on this week because they know what happens next week...how much do we get jerked around because of editing....




This season was filmed last September; the next one (Survivor 15, apparently it'll be in China) will start filming before this one ends. So the producers have lots of time to pick what footage they want to show. I wouldn't necessarily call it jerking the audience around, but they do pick and choose which stories they want to tell based on what'll make good TV. Obviously they want to show any interesting scenes with a player before that player's voted off, and sometimes they hide successful game-long alliances. But they'll also toss in enough misdirection to keep people guessing, so you can't be certain that just because somebody like Yau Man has gotten a lot of screentime, he's going to get voted off soon.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 20, 2007)

They caught Edgardo, off his guard, oh!


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 20, 2007)

The (pathetic) 4 Horseman got outsmarted & outplayed on two fronts.  Dreamz doesn't have the chops to pull off his dual-role (obviously, no one trusts him) and is likely to get picked off next as he can be a threat in the challenges.  People are scared of Alex, as well and he will certainly be a target.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Stacy, Dreamz & Boo at this point.  The smart move for them would be to align with Mookie & Alex.  They need to get the other idol out of play.  Otherwise, Earl has too much power.

As opposed to some other seasons (with the same amount of people left), the next few immunity challenges are huge and will make the finale very interesting.  There doesn't appear to be two major camps and many people will be looking for alliances that will only last a week or two.  Fun stuff.

I'll also mention that I love to hate Yau Man.  His arrogance annoys and entertains me.  I'm rooting for Alex, if only just to see if he can orchestrate his way into surviving past 3 more Tribal Counsels.


----------



## Arnwyn (Apr 20, 2007)

By far, the best tribal council since the first season. For once, the producers/editors didn't screw with the audience with selective editing, and actually followed through and showed the audience the actual scheming that counted. Finally.

As I said before - Yau Man *F.T.W.* He is humble and completely not arrogant. Nice to see. Hopefully Alex and those other loser "4 [now 3] horsemen" get wiped out. Fast.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 21, 2007)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> By far, the best tribal council since the first season. For once, the producers/editors didn't screw with the audience with selective editing, and actually followed through and showed the audience the actual scheming that counted. Finally.



The first season was the only one I didn't watch so far.  I imagine I'll pick it up on DVD or somesuch along the way, especially to see how things have changed in 15+ seasons, and growing.  That said, it was a tactically sound TC which we don't get all that often.

I can't tell if it's too much a mixture of stupid + smart or just a ton of stuff going on in a short period of time.  And I've come to the conclusion that I don't care, it was entertaining.  And I don't know any specifics but according to a blurb I read a while back, both hidden idols really jazz up TC before the final 4, unlike last season.

I say bring it on.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 21, 2007)

Until Probst said so, I did not know that, once used, the immunity idol would be rehidden for someone else to potentially find.


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 21, 2007)

Has an immunity idol ever actually been played before?  It always seems like people agree to use it for someone else but never are actually able because of the rules concerning its use.  They almost seem written so that people don't use them.

I'd actually like it more if they used it after the vote and then the 2nd most person is automatically bumped off.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 21, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> Until Probst said so, I did not know that, once used, the immunity idol would be rehidden for someone else to potentially find.



 Me either.  That works for me.  Keeps Exile Island banishment in play for more than just a punishment.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 21, 2007)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Has an immunity idol ever actually been played before?





I do not recall it happening but I have not watched all seasons of the show.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 21, 2007)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Has an immunity idol ever actually been played before?



This is the 3rd season with the hidden idols.  Panama: Exile Island and Cook Islands both had them.  I'm almost positive Guatemala did not.  Terry had it in Panama & Yul had it on Cook Islands.  Both times, it wasn't needed at TC but it was used as leverage in both shows.

So no, I don't think one has ever been played.


----------



## sckeener (Apr 23, 2007)

That was a good episode.  It felt like a 7 player Diplomacy game and that warmed my heart.  

I'm worried for Yau Man.  I think he said the wrong thing after the immunity challenge (that he could go another hour.)  Combine that with the remaining 4 horsemen finding out about him having the idol....makies me worried.

I like Yau Man and I'm hoping the next few episodes go predictably...removing each of the remaining horsemen.


----------



## Arnwyn (Apr 24, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Me either.  That works for me.  Keeps Exile Island banishment in play for more than just a punishment.



I totally agree - I thought that was a nice little touch.


----------



## SWBaxter (Apr 26, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> This is the 3rd season with the hidden idols.  Panama: Exile Island and Cook Islands both had them.  I'm almost positive Guatemala did not.




Wikipedia sez there was one in Guatemala, found by Gary (the quarterback). Unlike the later idols, this one had to be used before the vote.


----------



## Ghostwind (Apr 27, 2007)

Is anyone surprised that Alex turned on Mookie?


----------



## Demmero (Apr 27, 2007)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> Is anyone surprised that Alex turned on Mookie?




Not really.  The two hadn't managed to do anything to dent the alliance of 6, so I think Alex just realized that it was going to be either himself or Mookie going home, and he preferred it to be Mookie.  I don't think there was any malice in his decision.

Speaking of malice though...Stacey has got to go.  Her comment about Alex and Mookie being "lucky if they get fed" really ticked me off.  She said something similar about Dreamz and Cassandra (?) earlier in the game when her alliance got a numbers advantage.


----------



## Arnwyn (Apr 27, 2007)

Demmero said:
			
		

> Not really.  The two hadn't managed to do anything to dent the alliance of 6, so I think Alex just realized that it was going to be either himself or Mookie going home, and he preferred it to be Mookie.  I don't think there was any malice in his decision.



That's my impression, too. Actually, I thought it was rather brilliant of him (as much as I'm looking forward to seeing him go).


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 27, 2007)

SWBaxter said:
			
		

> Wikipedia sez there was one in Guatemala, found by Gary (the quarterback). Unlike the later idols, this one had to be used before the vote.



Oh yeah, I forgot about that one!  I must have forgotten it because the way it had to be used made it just a stopgap vote out tool.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 27, 2007)

Demmero said:
			
		

> Speaking of malice though...Stacey has got to go.  Her comment about Alex and Mookie being "lucky if they get fed" really ticked me off.  She said something similar about Dreamz and Cassandra (?) earlier in the game when her alliance got a numbers advantage.



Yeah, that was kinda annoying, especially since she hasn't done much at all to play the game.  She's ended up on strong alliances and is coasting.  The females this time around make me miss Stephanie.  At least she was a player.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 27, 2007)

Ain't no fluke, see,
They picked Mookie. 


Judging from the previews of next week, it looks like Stacey is going to ferment unrest against Boo.  Alex might find a way to survive another week.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 28, 2007)

SWBaxter said:
			
		

> Wikipedia sez there was one in Guatemala, found by Gary (the quarterback). Unlike the later idols, this one had to be used before the vote.




That's correct- Guatemala was the first season they used the HII in. It's been in every Survivor in one form or another, since.


----------



## Silver Moon (Apr 28, 2007)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> Is anyone surprised that Alex turned on Mookie?



Mookie's look at Alex was priceless. 

So how dumb are Dreamz and Cassandra, knocking out their own blocks on the first call?   I figured he was pretty dumb two weeks ago when he went into the triabal council with three people he had alliances with and voted for one of them (Michelle) rather than the one who he wasn't allied with at all (Stacey).


----------



## Shalimar (Apr 28, 2007)

Next weeks tribal council should be good seeing how Alex tries to break Dreamz and Stacy off.  The problem for the Alliance of 6 is that they are going to have to start knocking each other off to get to the final four, and the people who know they aren't in the final four are going to try and go out swinging.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 28, 2007)

I predict that Alex's strategy will be to go to Boo, Stacey, and Dreamz (the "cuspy-three") and ask them if they think they are the one of their three that will be chosen by Earl, Yau Man, and Casandra (the "primary-three") to go to the final four with their three.  Best to ask them all together but if that can't be arranged, individually or in pairs will also do.  Because if the cuspy-three hold any doubt whatsoever, Alex can offer them a chance to all three go to the final four with him.  It will take some strategizing to get past the HII that Yau Man holds, and presumably might share with Earl and possibly Casandra.  But Alex is the only hope Boo, Stacey, and Dreamz have of being sure all three of the cuspy-three get to the final four, since in their current situation two of them will have to be eliminated on the heals of Alex.  I think it is Alex's only chance beyond winning immunity.  If he wins immunity he should still do it or he on't have the numbers opnce the primary-three eliminate another of the cuspy-three should Alex be immune.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 29, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> So how dumb are Dreamz and Cassandra, knocking out their own blocks on the first call?




I don't think they knew where their blocks were- it wasn't clear from the way they edited things, but I figure the only way that game would have been fair would have been for them to have drawn blindly as to the location of their groups, without ever having seen the board. Otherwise, the last person to select would have had a major advantage over the others.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 29, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> I predict that Alex's strategy will be to go to Boo, Stacey, and Dreamz (the "cuspy-three") and ask them if they think they are the one of their three that will be chosen by Earl, Yau Man, and Casandra (the "primary-three") to go to the final four with their three.  Best to ask them all together but if that can't be arranged, individually or in pairs will also do.  Because if the cuspy-three hold any doubt whatsoever, Alex can offer them a chance to all three go to the final four with him.  It will take some strategizing to get past the HII that Yau Man holds, and presumably might share with Earl and possibly Casandra.  But Alex is the only hope Boo, Stacey, and Dreamz have of being sure all three of the cuspy-three get to the final four, since in their current situation two of them will have to be eliminated on the heals of Alex.  I think it is Alex's only chance beyond winning immunity.  If he wins immunity he should still do it or he on't have the numbers opnce the primary-three eliminate another of the cuspy-three should Alex be immune.



 This is my thought exactly.  I would be surprised, however it Yau-man didn't see it coming.  His is the most dangerous player at this point in the game made only worse by him holding the hidden idol.


----------



## RichCsigs (Apr 29, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I don't think they knew where their blocks were- it wasn't clear from the way they edited things, but I figure the only way that game would have been fair would have been for them to have drawn blindly as to the location of their groups, without ever having seen the board. Otherwise, the last person to select would have had a major advantage over the others.




The way it came off to me was they pulled each player away separately and then said "Okay, pick your squares."  Two people had the same exact squares (I think it was Mookie and Boo, but I can't be sure), which would be pretty choochie to do if it was a random draw.

And can I say I absolutely loved Yau-Man when Mookie and Alex were threatening to tell everyone else that he had the idol and Yau-Man was just like, "Whatever, go ahead." and Mookie and Alex just didn't know what to do with that reaction.  Priceless!


----------



## Silver Moon (Apr 29, 2007)

You-Man handled that one perfectly!   I can't wait for Alex to get the boot, he's such a slime - unfortunatley he's also very smart.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 29, 2007)

I, also, think Boo has a chance to leverage his way into a final four situation moreso than Stacey (who no one seems to like) or Dreamz (who no one seems to trust).  I do not think that Alex is the swing vote.  I think it is Boo.  Alex is now the Anti-Earl.  I am guessing that Boo might feel safer going to a final four situation with Earl, Yau Man, and Casandra than with Alex, Stacey, and Dreamz.  With Earl, Yau Man, and Casandra, Boo might be at an intellectual disadvantage but he might be at a physical advantage whereas with Alex, Stacey, and Dreamz, Boo might be at an intellectual disadvantage but his physical advantage is less clear, if at all.  Earl, Yau Man, and Casandra might think Stacey is the possible swing vote, and might feel she is someone to have along since no jury or audience would choose Stacey over any of the other players, IMO, but I think they will ultimately not trust Stacey.  I think Earl, Yau Man, and Casandra will trust Boo to vote how he says he will vote if given the chance to definitely be in the final four.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 29, 2007)

Further, I do not want to see Alex, Stacey, or Dreamz win.  I would not be disappointed with Earl, Yau Man, Casandra, or Boo being the ultimate winner of the game.


----------



## sckeener (Apr 30, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> Further, I do not want to see Alex, Stacey, or Dreamz win.  I would not be disappointed with Earl, Yau Man, Casandra, or Boo being the ultimate winner of the game.




I'll echo that.  I really wish Stacey was gone.  She rubs me wrong.  At least with Alex, he's playing the game.  Stacey is just cold....'lucky if they get food' ?  I really wish she'd go to exile island for a bit of alone time.  I think she needs a serious time out for her childish behavior.


----------



## John Crichton (Apr 30, 2007)

Neither Dreamz or Stacy have played a good game at all.  They are keeping Dreamz around because he's barely a threat and that is only in physical challenges.

I'm still okay with Alex and hope he goes farther than next week.


----------



## Silver Moon (Apr 30, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> I would not be disappointed with Earl, Yau Man, Casandra, or Boo being the ultimate winner of the game.



Boo would be a funny one given that when they wre down to ten he was on almost everybody's chopping block but instead wound up on the team that won the competition, giving him time to work his way back into the in-crowd. 

I'm hoping for Yau Man, with Earl as my second choice.   I haven't been overly impressed with Casandra.   I do agree that Alex and Dreamz have to go.   The only reason for keeping either would be to be opposite them in the final two, but since that's now a final three I'm not sure that would work.


----------



## Mark CMG (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm concerned that the strategy of taking an unworthy or unliked person to the final four might fall apart with some new twist of the game, given that such a strategy is now one easily guessed by those who run the game and provide the twists.  I suspect a twist will come that would allow or even force such a strategy to backfire.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 30, 2007)

The final three issue really makes that strategy a lot more dubious in any case- for one thing, you'd have to have two unlikable sorts with you, and given the final immunity challenge, that makes planning for such an eventuality pretty difficult.


----------



## Arnwyn (Apr 30, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> Further, I do not want to see Alex, Stacey, or Dreamz win.  I would not be disappointed with Earl, Yau Man, Casandra, or Boo being the ultimate winner of the game.



Yeah, I'll echo that as well. My overall preference is Yau, or Earl as an alternate.

Alex and Dreamz have got to go.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 3, 2007)

It seems like once you get to the final two (or three?) it is largely up to the audience, no?  If that is the case, I guess the producers have a lot of power based on how the edits go down.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 4, 2007)

Ex-Alex. 


I think Boo better keep winning challenges.  I also think that Alex had a sit down with the wrong three people.  I think he would have had a better chance working people against Yau, Eal, and Cassandra based on the fact that just a single other final four spot would have been available.


----------



## John Crichton (May 4, 2007)

I was a little surprised, until TC that Alex didn't manage to stir more up than he did.  Once people made their comments I thought he was dead.  Well, now the cannibalism begins!    1 more ep until the finale, right?


----------



## Cthulhudrew (May 4, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> 1 more ep until the finale, right?




At least two, I think. 6 people left (Yau-Man, Stacy, Cassandra, Earl, Boo, Dreamz), final 3 at tribal council means probably 4 people going into the final episode.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (May 4, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> It seems like once you get to the final two (or three?) it is largely up to the audience, no?




Not sure I follow- do you mean the home viewing audience, or the Jury? The final decision is up to the jury, and they've made their choice before the show even airs, so no edits have been made yet.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 4, 2007)

Doesn't the audience vote on something, too?  Or is that just for who gets a car?


----------



## Cthulhudrew (May 4, 2007)

The only things the audience have voted for in the past were a special extra million dollar award during the All-Stars season, which they gave to Rupert. Some think that the reason they came up with that reward was because Rupert was so popular during his season but didn't win, and wanted to give him something- but only the most skeptical people believe that.   

(I can see an argument for it, frankly, and am torn on whether it should have been Rupert or Boston Rob- who was the second favorite- but it's neither here nor there.)

There was also an audience vote for a car last season that Ozzy won (again, one of those- did they do it because they wanted to give him something? moments).

Whether they'll do anything this season or not, I couldn't say, but it's not a standard procedure.

(I'd completely forgotten about the car giveaway until you brought it up, actually. )


----------



## John Crichton (May 5, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> At least two, I think. 6 people left (Yau-Man, Stacy, Cassandra, Earl, Boo, Dreamz), final 3 at tribal council means probably 4 people going into the final episode.



Really?  There will be a final 3 and usually they vote off two in the finale.  I hope there is 3 total left and you are right.  With Amazing Race coming to an end this Sunday, I want to extend my fix a bit longer.  

EDIT:  Finale is on 5/13. So we'll get this Thursday's ep then the finale/reunion 3 days later.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 5, 2007)

So how many get voted off next episode?


----------



## John Crichton (May 5, 2007)

I think just one.  The finale is usually a final four where 2 people get voted off.  In this case there are 6 left so one is gone leaving 5 for the 2 hour finale where the last 2 will be gone.


----------



## sckeener (May 5, 2007)

Bye bye Alex...

Yippee....

I was surprised that everyone voted him off....no new alliances were exposed.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 7, 2007)

I wonder if there will be a big scramble by everyone to find the other hidden immunity idol?  There are three who could really use it desparately and three others who might like to find it to make sure their control is absolute.


----------



## John Crichton (May 7, 2007)

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> I wonder if there will be a big scramble by everyone to find the other hidden immunity idol?  There are three who could really use it desparately and three others who might like to find it to make sure their control is absolute.



 I certainly think there will be a rush.  It's only good for one (maybe 2) more TC, which means it's almost an auto-use.


----------



## Shalimar (May 11, 2007)

Wow, Dreamz is a ing ass, he better not win the million.  If he does the only redeeming thing he can do is give Yau-man the truck back.


----------



## Silver Moon (May 11, 2007)

Well played!


----------



## John Crichton (May 11, 2007)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Wow, Dreamz is a ing ass, he better not win the million.  If he does the only redeeming thing he can do is give Yau-man the truck back.



 No way, I would have taken the truck.  He can chuck the next challenge and still vote out Yau.  It goes against his "alignment" but at least he's trying a few strategies.

And it was a good play by YM, but I saw it coming from the second he started the deal with Dreamz.  Still, brilliant play.  As much as I hate YM, I love to do so.  Stacy was a worthless player and I'm glad she is gone.  I'm just hoping that the preview of "most tension filled" lives up to the billing for the last TC.  They have been a tad limp of late.


----------



## Arnwyn (May 11, 2007)

Probably one of the best seasons of tribal councils since the beginning.

Hopefully, either Earl or Yau win the next immunity challenge (and gives the other the immunity idol), and then unload that bitch Cassandra.

And Dreamz is indeed both annoying and despicable (but I knew that from the beginning).


----------



## Cthulhudrew (May 11, 2007)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Hopefully, either Earl or Yau win the next immunity challenge (and gives the other the immunity idol), and then unload that bitch Cassandra.




I'd rather see them get rid of Dreamz myself, though frankly, anyone could do worse than to go into the Final 3 with both Cassandra and Dreamz (the ideal would have been to take Stacy and Cassandra, both of them completely useless people who have coasted through the game).



> And Dreamz is indeed both annoying and despicable (but I knew that from the beginning).




That's for sure. From the first episode where he wouldn't shut up throughout the night, then a week or two ago he was complaining about Boo talking too much. Then he was the first to say "Let's be straight with each other and say who we're voting out so that they know what's coming- no snakes and rats" and quickly becomes the guy who is sneaking around and plotting.

I loved the looks Edgardo, Alex, and Mookie all had during the TC when they were talking about Yau-Man's deal with the supposedly trustworthy and honorable Dreamz. Geez.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 11, 2007)

Stacy will now get to see what everyone has been saying about her before being on the jury.  I think her vote goes to Earl or Casandra.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 11, 2007)

Boo's position, if he can keep winning the immunity challenge and somehow get Earl or Yau Man out next TC, is looking a little stronger.


----------



## el-remmen (May 11, 2007)

I don't get the hate for Cassandra.

I think she has played a good game and is not a bad person.

As for Dreamz, I have similar thoughts. . . So he tried to get Yau off after the deal - as long as he gets and gives immunity to Yau when he said he would then that is exactly what I would have done.

I can't even imagine Yau being mad about it.

It was Stacy that ruined the plan to get rid of Yau by running her mouth.  But no big loss, *HER* I didn't like.

I am not going to say who I am rooting for tho, b/c whenever I do they lose.


----------



## el-remmen (May 14, 2007)

Don't forget the Finale is on tonight!


----------



## Shalimar (May 14, 2007)

I'm glad Yau won the first immunity challenge, at least this way Dreamz doesn't get to be a dick and try and screw him over again.


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (May 14, 2007)

Finale: That rat bastard!

It'll be interesting to see whether the jury rewards integrity or gamesmanship.  I'm betting (well, hoping) on integrity.

Yet again, the person I feel is most deserving doesn't win ...


----------



## CrusaderX (May 14, 2007)




----------



## Shalimar (May 14, 2007)

I never knew Vader had such a giant cod piece.


----------



## John Crichton (May 14, 2007)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I never knew Vader had such a giant cod piece.



Don't worry, it's all cybernetics.

Anywho, the finale went down exactly as I thought it would after the "betrayal."  It was a very cool moment of suspense to see if Dreamz would actually give up immunity and honor the deal.  I certainly wouldn't have.  The problem was that Dreamz played a pretty decent game but he didn't have the communication skills to balance his betrayal along with his reasoning for doing so.  If he was a little more honest about things he may have gotten a vote or two.

Dreamz really surprised me by sniffing out where the vote was going and when to switch things up.  He actually played the game just as well as Earl did, just a louder game.  He was involved in everything the whole way.  But Earl deserved it for his share of luck and solid play.  But neither played a game as well as Yau-man.  Just like in the past, the best player never made it to face the jury.  His one mistake cost him everything.

In all, I was very impressed by this season.  My hope for the future is to eliminate boring and useless players such as Cassandra who brought NOTHING to the table.  She wasn't entertaining, she was terrible in the challenges and the only reason she stuck around so long was that everyone knew she had no shot of winning the whole thing.  Non-threats are boring.

Survivor: China (!!) can't get here fast enough.

Anyone else gonna give Pirate Master a shot to fill in the summer gaps?


----------



## sckeener (May 14, 2007)

Dreamz...argh.  I am so glad he got ripped by the jury.  I only wish there had been a way for Cassandra and Dreamz to have come in 3rd and received nothing. 

I was impressed with Boo giving Yau such a compliment and Alex proved himself a jerk even in the jury.

Yau was the best.  He had his own style to everything and I think he showed how classy he could be even after losing. 

This was my first survivor to watch...at least it was a good one.


----------



## el-remmen (May 14, 2007)

HOORAY!

I haev watched all 14 seasons of Survivor, and this is the first time the person I was rooting for from the point where I knew the contestants enough to care, has won.

Go Earl!  I think he deserved it as much as Yau-Man.


----------



## Arnwyn (May 14, 2007)

Extremely disappointed that Yau didn't win - he deserved it more than anyone else. He did take a risk by not reminding Dreamz that his kid is watching, and to "do the right thing" in front of him, and the rest of North America.

However Earl winning (with a complete shut-out - I should say so) was the second-best result.



			
				sckeener said:
			
		

> I was impressed with Boo giving Yau such a compliment and Alex proved himself a jerk even in the jury.



Total agreement. It entirely looked like Boo thought Yau was screwed (giving Yau the compliment, clapping him on the back during the jury questioning). And yeah - no question Alex was a jerk. Good riddance to him.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (May 14, 2007)

Disappointed that Yau-Man didn't win, but glad to see Earl did. I'd wanted one of the two of them to win practically from day one- aside from being good players, they were pretty much the only two that seemed to actually have any sort of personality to me.

Lisi's always been a few cans shy of a six-pack, but man did she ever go completely nuts at Tribal Council. Geez! Even Jeff was completely puzzled (and he's coming across as very bitter and annoyed lately with the game, or at least some of the competitors- I'm looking at you "Dreamz"- maybe it's time he should think about packing it in if it is starting to get this personal. I like him, but it's pretty blatant. Or maybe he just needs to hang out with Phil from the Amazing Race for a bit, unwind. Switch places for a season, even.)

Alex, too, was just asinine at TC. I never really liked that guy, and if this is how he practices law, no wonder he needed to try and win a million bucks. I really hope he isn't a trial lawyer.

I frankly thought everyone was too easy on Dreamz- after all his talk of how much his honor and integrity mean to him, and how he really wants to make sure his kid sees him live up to his word, etc. If he really had been playing Yau from the start, he wouldn't have made all those confessionals, you know? Just made him look even more like the snake he was the entire game- ironic, considering he was the first person to ever suggest that everyone just play the game in the open, and let everyone know what is going down so there wouldn't be any surprises. And Yau-Man letting him off the hook like he did? "It was all my fault"- yeah, in the sense that you know, you trusted him. I can see why he might feel the need to forgive Dreamz for his own peace of mind, but he completely devalued the nature of Dreamz' dishonesty by publically vindicating him like that. 

Anyway, looking forward to next season, as usual, but I really hope they do something to make the finale more interesting next time. Even the congo drums seemed to be bored with this one.


----------



## Storm Raven (May 14, 2007)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Anywho, the finale went down exactly as I thought it would after the "betrayal."  It was a very cool moment of suspense to see if Dreamz would actually give up immunity and honor the deal.  I certainly wouldn't have.  The problem was that Dreamz played a pretty decent game but he didn't have the communication skills to balance his betrayal along with his reasoning for doing so.  If he was a little more honest about things he may have gotten a vote or two.
> 
> Dreamz really surprised me by sniffing out where the vote was going and when to switch things up.  He actually played the game just as well as Earl did, just a louder game.  He was involved in everything the whole way.  But Earl deserved it for his share of luck and solid play.  But neither played a game as well as Yau-man.  Just like in the past, the best player never made it to face the jury.  His one mistake cost him everything.




I thought it was very funny that Dreamz thought he could back out of the deal, and then have a shot at the million bucks. He kept phrasing the questions as "do I choose between keeping my word and getting an opportunity to win a million dollars". The million dollars wasn't an option though, because once he backed out of the deal with Yau Man, no one on the jury would vote for him. I saw that the instant that he started hemming and hawing about it - if he had gotten Yau Man voted off _before_ the final four, that might work, because then he wouldn't have been engaged in so obvious a backstabbing, but to keep immunity after agreeing to give it up, that's just ensuring that no one in the jury will ever vote for you. The real choice for Dreamz was between keeping his word and nothing. He chose nothing.

Really, once Dreamz did that, and Earl ended up with the nonentity that was Cassandra, I couldn't figure out any voting scenario that wouldn't logically end up in a shut out. I suppose Lisi could have gone off the rails and done something insane, but that's about it.


----------



## sckeener (May 14, 2007)

Storm Raven said:
			
		

> The real choice for Dreamz was between keeping his word and nothing. He chose nothing.




I figured he knew he was cooked for the million... I think he was really playing for the $100K 2nd place prize.  I wish someone had voted for Cassandra so he would have gotten nothing but the car.


----------



## Mark CMG (May 14, 2007)

I like Michelle.  What a bitter, bitter jury.


----------



## Silver Moon (May 15, 2007)

I think it is a safe bet that we will see Yau-Man again a year from now at the next All-Star Survivor


----------



## sckeener (May 15, 2007)

Apparently I was wrong....him and Cassandra apparently are getting the $100k.

at least according to this article


----------



## SWBaxter (May 16, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> I think it is a safe bet that we will see Yau-Man again a year from now at the next All-Star Survivor




Yeah, Yau-Man is this season's Rupert in terms of popularity. I dunno if they're thinking of doing the fan vote for a million again, but if so they can save some time by just giving Yau the cheque. Apparently Survivor had a big boost in ratings this season, and he's one of the major reasons - certainly worked on me, he's easily my favourite player from any season.

I think Dreamz' major mistake was accepting the car in the first place; once he did that, he had no shot at the million. Probably he figured that out soon after making the deal, and from then on was trying to figure out a way to come in second. Given the circumstances, he got the best possible outcome, so I have a fair bit of respect for his game.

Cassandra got to the final because everybody wanted to go up against her in front of the jury. It's hard to credit her when her main strength was everybody thought they could beat her in the final vote, but she got the cash so good for her.

Earl's a very strong player and a worthy champ. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the next All-Star edition either.


----------



## John Crichton (May 16, 2007)

SWBaxter said:
			
		

> Earl's a very strong player and a worthy champ. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the next All-Star edition either.



I'd love to see Earl vs Yul vs Yau-man vs Boston Rob vs Rob Cesternino vs Tom (Season 9) in an All-Star matchup.  If I could take anyone out of that group it would be Boston Rob as he's been on 4 CBS shows so far, but he's so fun to hate.  That group had the best players I can recall off the top of my head.  3 winners and 3 people that could have won in there.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (May 16, 2007)

I'd almost like to see a version of Survivor All-Stars where they have two tribes- one with the "masterminds" and one with the "working class joes"- both competing against one another to see who would win. You'd have people like Matt (season 6) and Ozzy (season 10), against the likes of Yul (season 10), and Rob (season 6) for example. Brains vs. Brawn.


----------

