# What 7th-level spells should any Wizard prepare?



## dcollins (Nov 9, 2004)

Here's a poll in a series I'm trying to use to generate a "baseline" core Wizard's spell list. You can pick as many selections as you like.

Say you have a Wizard of about 16th level -- adventuring, PC or NPC, non-specialized, non-multiclassed, core rules only. He or she can likely prepare 3 spells of 7th-level. What spells should he or she prepare in those slots?

You can pick as many selections as you'd like -- I would suggest around 3.


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## Thanee (Nov 9, 2004)

7th level is all about _Limited Wish_, though _Greater Scrying_ and _Greater Teleport_ have a certain appeal as well.

Bye
Thanee


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## rkanodia (Nov 9, 2004)

I've always been a sucker for _prismatic spray_ myself, though I admit it is often of limited utility: it has the potential to wreck _anybody's_ day, but it's pretty much a crap shoot.  And that spray are will include your teammates, who  aren't going to be insulated against it the way you can throw down some elemental resistance spells or items and then sling _fireballs_ with reckless abandon.


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## Eremite (Nov 9, 2004)

Limited Wish: no explanation required!

Forcecage: no save and no SR. Every wizard needs at least one spell like this!

Projected Image: the ability to have spells originate from the image allows the wizard to get "up close and personal" with opponents that he would not otherwise be able to confront with touch spells etc.... I only ever DM so I can only say how effective this spell has been for NPC wizards.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 9, 2004)

I voted only Greater Scrying, much better than the lower-level one.

Close next: Limited Wish is probably worth preparing for emergency, but the Xp cost would prevent to use it daily. Prismatic Spray with some luck can result in multiple kills, and it seems the best for combat at this level; another one maybe Mass Hold Person, although it's limited to humanoids.

Far next: Greater Arcane Sight would have been more helpful if it wasn't limited to ongoing spells but also identified spell-like abilities, in which case it would be probably a good support for combat. Greater Teleport is obviously good but I'd probably prefer the more basic Teleport most of the time.


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## Asmo (Nov 9, 2004)

I voted Limited Wish.
I would be glad if someone could post the result of the 2 lvl spell poll.
I´ve lost my account and no way to renew it so I don´t have acess to search anymore.
I was checking the older threads but couldn´t find it there.

Asmo


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## dbm (Nov 9, 2004)

I voted Limited Wish, Prismatic Spray and Mage's Sword.

Limited wish is a powerful and versatile spell but not so expensive as to be uncastable.
Prismatic Spray is simply my favourite attack spell after reading the Dying Earth books, and it can take out a whole encounter of enemies if you are lucky.
Mage's Sword is a scalple to the sledge hammer that is Prismatic Spray - lets you put some smack-down on the enemies of your choice without catching fellow party members in any kind of area effect.

Cheers,
Dan


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## Thanee (Nov 9, 2004)

Li Shenron said:
			
		

> Close next: Limited Wish is probably worth preparing for emergency, but the Xp cost would prevent to use it daily.



 You're way too afixed to your precious XP. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Thanee (Nov 9, 2004)

Asmo said:
			
		

> I would be glad if someone could post the result of the 2 lvl spell poll.
> I´ve lost my account and no way to renew it so I don´t have acess to search anymore.
> I was checking the older threads but couldn´t find it there.



 Use the sort forum function (somewhere at the bottom left of the forum display) to sort by Thread Starter, increase the time frame accordingly and then browse for d... then dcollins. Should be a matter of a minute or two to find it.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/forum...t=postusername&order=desc&pp=30&daysprune=365
http://www.enworld.org/forums/forum...t=postusername&order=desc&pp=30&daysprune=365

  Bye
  Thanee


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## Al (Nov 9, 2004)

7th level is a really great spell level, and most of the spells are worth having.  Certainly very few are so poor as to consider not having them in your spellbook.

Having said that, Limited Wish, Forcecage and Greater Teleport stick out from the crowd.


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## Asmo (Nov 9, 2004)

Doh!
Never really thought of that possibility.
Thanx Thanee, I owe you one!

Asmo


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## Nail (Nov 9, 2004)

I've not had alot of experience casting Wiz spells of this level.  Still, a quick perusal (and as a long-time reader of the Storyhours) gives me this list:
Forcecage: Why would any wizard _not_ pick this no-save spell?

Summon Monster VII: Personal preference; I like the flexibility in meat shields.

Waves of Exhaustion: You all do know what no-save penalties this gives, right?



			
				SRD_3.5e said:
			
		

> *Exhausted:* An exhausted character moves at half speed and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued.


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## Dark Dragon (Nov 9, 2004)

Voted for: 

- _Mage's Sword_ (cast it and let it fight on its own, while you cast other spells. It is good against incorporeal creatures and has a quite good attack bonus)

- _Spell Turning_ (comes in handy when you're targeted by _Greater Dispelling, Horrid Wilting_,...)

- _Greater Teleport_ (simply useful, even for the whole party)

_Prismatic Spray_ is also a nice offensive spell, but allows SR and save. _Waves of Exhaustion_ allows SR but is quite effective against non-constructs and non-undead opponents. 

_Forcecage_ is too expensive, IMO, burning 1500 GM per use may deplete the wizard's cash quickly... _Limited Wish_ is nice, but losing XP too often hurts.


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## dcollins (Nov 9, 2004)

Asmo said:
			
		

> I would be glad if someone could post the result of the 2 lvl spell poll.




In case you haven't found it yet, here it is: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92760

As an aside, this was the first one I did, and I'm expecting to re-do it again at the end. I was a bit over-aggressive about editing out options in the poll (thought there was a 20 item limit at first). Had 13 write-in votes for Glitterdust, 7 for Web.


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## Asmo (Nov 9, 2004)

Yup, found it, Thanee was kind to add some links 
I´m playing a low level Arcane Trickster wannabe so it´s interesting to read what other people think is great spells.

Asmo


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## Plane Sailing (Nov 9, 2004)

Limited Wish was my number one choice.

I'm surprised force cage gets so many votes. As Dark Dragon says - 1500gp per casting is a *heck* of a price, it sure ain't going to be case regularly!

Thus a wizard would sometimes want to prepare force cage because there are some days you know you're going to need it, but every day? Probably not.

Unlike Al I struggle to find good spells at this level (although I've been looking at it from a sorcerers point of view which skews things a little).

I like Mordenkainens sword (oops, Mages sword) to give a chance to hack away at things, and Summon Monster VII gives some interesting additional capabilities.


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## Nail (Nov 9, 2004)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> ...surprised force cage gets so many votes. As Dark Dragon says - 1500gp per casting is a *heck* of a price, it sure ain't going to be case regularly.



Consider that at this level, the average encounter (EL 16 !!!!!) the treasure value per encounter is 28,000gp.  

At that level, spending 1,500 gp to end the fight is hardly a problem.  You're just as likely spend that kind of money on potions, scrolls, and other consumables during the fight.

(EDIT) For comparison: spending 1500gp on a fight at this level (EL 16) is only ~5% of the treasure you will gain for the fight.  At level 3 (EL 3), spending 5% of the treasure is 48 gp.  Whoop-dee-dee.


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## Thanee (Nov 9, 2004)

From a sorcerer's point of view, I have these three spells chosen for my sorceress (not yet high enough to learn them, however ):

 1) Limited Wish (no brainer)
 2) Greater Teleport (no Teleport, so this is another obvious choice)
 3) Spell Turning (the only one I am not so sure about, but it's nice protection and can be cast over and over again)

 Force Cage is out, since she cannot learn evocations anymore (Incantatrix), otherwise, this might have been number 3), but there is still Greater Shadow Evocation one level higher, which does it for free (but also is less effective with a save to disbelieve and SR: yes). Altho 8th level spell choice is really, really tough for a sorcerer. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## shilsen (Nov 9, 2004)

Limited Wish and Prismatic Spray for reasons already mentioned by previous posters. No.3 was Reverse Gravity - if you need to ask why, read the spell description and think about options for a few seconds.


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## Plane Sailing (Nov 10, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> 3) Spell Turning (the only one I am not so sure about, but it's nice protection and can be cast over and over again)




I have a vague recollection of a thread in the past few months which was agonising about the relative uselessness of spell turning - something about it only protecting against a very few number of spells in reality?

Do you remember that thread?


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## Saeviomagy (Nov 10, 2004)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> I have a vague recollection of a thread in the past few months which was agonising about the relative uselessness of spell turning - something about it only protecting against a very few number of spells in reality?
> 
> Do you remember that thread?




Well, one of the biggies is that it doesn't appear to protect against spell-like abilities, which most monsters use in lieu of real spells.


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## EvilGM (Nov 10, 2004)

Prismatic Spray - Many times it won't do much, but it is still a fun spell to use - and occasionally has spectacular results.

Greater Teleport - Long range mobility is a good thing.

Reverse Gravity - No SR or save (basically), shapeable area, good range.   Removes creatures from the fight and holds them up in the air for you to pick off at your leisure.  Great spell.  I think many people don't understand the power of this spell (hint: limit the area's height so they don't hit a solid object)

Ethereal Jaunt and Limited Wish are handy at times, but I would not prepare them daily.


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## Elder-Basilisk (Nov 10, 2004)

My votes:

Finger of Death, Mage's Magnificent Mansion, and Summon Monster VII

Why?

Finger of Death is a very good spell for removing living enemies from the field. There's usually a moderate chance that it'll remove them completely, and if it doesn't, it still does a reasonable amount of damage--especially at level 16+ (3d6+16=average of 27). It's not as good as Destruction but it's pretty close.

Mage's Magnificent Mansion is the ultimate in home security. It can't be scried, can't be teleported, and can't be entered without your permission. As a 16th level mage, you undoubtedly have powerful enemies. This spell limits their options when attacking you. That's easily worth a 7th level spell slot for a 16th level wizard.

Summon Monster VII is a very good and flexible spell. For battlefield damage, a celestial elephant trampling will inflict more damage than anything except a firestorm--and more than a firestorm if it survives for more than a few rounds. Elementals are good meat shields Djinni, Avoral, bone devils, and babau all have a lot of uses and even its multiple lower level options (1d3 celestial polar bears or Bralani Eladrin, giant constrictor snakes, or celestial dire lions, or 1d4+1 hound archons, celestial brown bears, bearded devils, etc. are very useful options.

As for the competitors:

Limited Wish is very useful but the 250xp cost makes it hard to justify having it prepped every day. It's very good but not something you want to cast on a daily basis.

Forcecage is even more expensive. Useful but too much of a corner case to keep prepped all the time.

Prismatic Spray has some potential good effects but is too random for my liking. Sure, it could turn your foes to stone or send them to hell but it could also do 20 points of fire damage, save for half. Not so impressive.

Spell Turning has too short a duration to be useful when you're not expecting trouble. It's handy if you are, there are quite a few other nice buffs you could use. Ones with more general utility.

Reverse Gravity seems a bit too dependent upon the situation. Flying foes are more common at 16th level than undead/constructs. Good spell, but I don't know as I'd prep it every day.


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## Sejs (Nov 10, 2004)

Voted: 
 -Limited Wish: this one is obvious, should be memorized all the time because it can do just about anything you need it to.

 -Plane Shift: this is the next step up on the escape line of spells.  teleport is great and all, but there are some things that absolutly _require_ plane shift to get away from, or otherwise deal with.  Generally when they happen you don't have the luxury of swapping out a spell so that you can replace it w/ PS.


Honorable Mentions(great but not a -required- memorize):
-Greater Scrying
-Greater Teleport
-Magnificent Mansion
-Project Image
-Summon Monster 7


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## Marimmar@Home (Nov 10, 2004)

Greater Teleport is always good to have, rest at home, have a nice breakfast and then return to the dungeon, a must have for any wizard with style.

When your companions complain about having to sleep in a moist cavern with monsters attacking every other second, mage's mansion comes in very handy.

And as always, force cage is an excellent divide and conquer spell. No save is always nice against monsters at these levels. The high number of hit dice monsters tend to have later in the game pushes their saves through the roof.

~Marimmar


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## Malin Genie (Nov 10, 2004)

_Limited wish_, _greater scrying_, _vision_ and then either _grasping hand_ or _summon monster VII_ for combat.

I think transport and information-gathering are getting more and more important relative to combat by the kind of level where 7th-level spells are being thrown around and most wiz/sors will already have lower-level combat/blast spells which can be metemagicked if more power is needed, rather than wasting 7th-level spell selections on damage dealing.


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## Thanee (Nov 10, 2004)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> I have a vague recollection of a thread in the past few months which was agonising about the relative uselessness of spell turning - something about it only protecting against a very few number of spells in reality?
> 
> Do you remember that thread?



 Yes, I do, but there are really enough spells, Spell Turning protects against (all individually targeted spells), even though it hardly protects against all (not even close).

 Bye
 Thanee


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## dcollins (Nov 11, 2004)

Thanks for the responses. Current ordered results (within 50% of top in boldface):

*
42	Limited Wish
36	Teleport, Greater
22	Spell Turning*
19	Forcecage
16	Prismatic Spray
14	Finger of Death
13	Reverse Gravity
10	Delayed Blast Fireball
10	Mage's Magnificent Mansion
10	Summon Monster VII
9	Scrying, Greater
8	Mage's Sword
8	Waves of Exhaustion
7	Banishment
6	Hold Person, Mass
5	Plane Shift
4	Arcane Sight, Greater
4	Ethereal Jaunt
4	Grasping Hand
4	Invisibility, Mass
3	Power Word Blind
3	Project Image
2	Control Undead
2	Control Weather
2	Shadow Conjuration, Greater
2	Statue
1	Insanity
1	Instant Summons
1	Sequester
1	Simulacrum
1	Vision
0	Phase Door
0	Symbol of Stunning
0	Symbol of Weakness
0	Teleport Object


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## Felix (Nov 11, 2004)

3 Spell slots:

_Forcecage_
To either trap a single enemy, or give you room to breathe while you keep out multiple enemies.

_Teleport, Greater_
Because every now and again, you need to be somewhere _now_, and its worth having at hand.

Open Slot
This gives you the opportunity to put anything you need here given 15 minutes. C'mon dcollins, put "Open Slot" on your polls as an option for what wizards can do with their spells!


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