# Is a fighter-ranger hybrid dumb? (help me build)



## Mercurius (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm going to introduce an Aragorn-esque sword-and-bow master type NPC in my session tonight (9-10th level), probably later on in the evening and not involving combat so the stats don't need to be totally formed yet. But I wanted to get some feedback and make sure I'm not missing the mark by creating a fighter-ranger hybrid. Are they too similar? If I want the character to be a wilderness type with a focus on swords and blows, should I just stick with a ranger? What's the benefit of hybridizing with fighter? Any feats or powers I should pay especial attention to? Etc.

Think of Aragorn a couple decades before the LotR, and replacing the gloomy vibe and heavy heritage with a more mercenary/adventurous bent, and a strong skill in swords and bows. In other words, imagine Aragorn if Fritz Lieber or Robert Howard were writing him.

Specific suggestions like magic items and feats are greatly appreciated. I'm also open to different hybrids, although think ranger should be in the mix (or maybe warden?).

Thanks!


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## keterys (Mar 26, 2010)

Str/Dex Tempest/Ranger should work out just fine.


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## Mercurius (Mar 26, 2010)

keterys said:


> Str/Dex Tempest/Ranger should work out just fine.




What is a "tempest"? Is that a build? I didn't see that option in Character Builder.


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## Ferghis (Mar 26, 2010)

Mercurius said:


> What is a "tempest"? Is that a build? I didn't see that option in Character Builder.




Yep. It's a fighter build. You'll find it in the character builder. My suggestion is to focus on str first, then wis, then dex. You won't be that great with the Bow, but it's otherwise a great build. Take a bunch of two weapon feats, and a few skills.


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## Grimgrin (Mar 26, 2010)

A hybred Paired Weapon fighter/ranger would be a STR/DEX build. It works because both classes have STR as a primary stat, and a Tempest Fighter wears lighter armor than other fighters.

He wouldn't be as tough as a fighter, but both the fighter's Tempest Technique (2W Defense, Att/Dam bonuses) and the ranger's Two Weapon Fighting (Use any 1W weapon as off-hand) stack well. Since most of the 2W ranger melee powers are also ranged, he has good ranged attacks. Heavy thrown weapons work better than a bow if you are close enough.


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## bganon (Mar 27, 2010)

If you want swords *and* bows, you might actually look in the Warlord class.  There's a ranged warlord option, that way you can get both melee/ranged to key off STR, making it less difficult to be good at both.


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## Saagael (Mar 27, 2010)

It's also worth noting that if this is going to be an NPC, you'll want to play by the NPC rules, not the PC rules. NPCs can be whatever you need them to be, regardless of what class they -might- be if they were a player character. If you want an Aragorn-esque NPC that's good at both bows and blades, make the NPC just that. No need to worry about classes at all.

If you want it to have some similarities to a class, you can take an existing NPC and give them a fighter or ranger template as per the DMG1, which makes then an elite monster.

Whatever you do, remember that PCs and NPCs play completely separate rules. If I were to stat this NPC out, I'd probably make him a skirmisher (leader). You can even take inspiration from PC powers, just make sure they follow NPC rules for attack and damage.


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## UngeheuerLich (Mar 27, 2010)

depends where you put the 8... but most surely he is... or just freaking ugly


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## mkill (Mar 29, 2010)

The problem about fighter-ranger hybrid is that half of him wants to be hit, the other one tries to avoid it. One half wants to draw as many weak critters as possible, the other wants to go for the big dude. So even if you're fighter/ranger by the rules, you can only be either fighter or ranger by tactics, on the battlefield. I just played a session today in a group where we have both a 2WF Ranger and a Tempest Fighter, and even if they look similar, they play different.

And as a previous poster said, if it's an NPC, it doesn't matter anyway. Use DMG p. 186 for NPCs, or the companion rules in DMG2 if he's supposed to travel with the party. And no, there are no hybrid rules for NPC, simply because they're unnecessary.


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## keterys (Mar 29, 2010)

A tempest-fighter/ranger is a great choice for a second defender, where they can initially help out by marking, then switch to full damage later. They're able to do very good damage, especially if they take ranger off-turn powers like Disruptive Strike or non-standards like Off-Hand minor action attacks.

That said, I would never worry about using the PC rules for NPCs.


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## mneme (Mar 29, 2010)

mkill said:


> The problem about fighter-ranger hybrid is that half of him wants to be hit, the other one tries to avoid it.




Not necessarily.  At least some fighter builds are very strikery -- "go ahead, try to hit me, even though I've got great defenses, because I've made it harder to hit anyone else...and I'm IN YOUR FACE" is a not atypical fighter approach and lends itself very well to a ranger hybrid (even though, yes, having to choose between extra damage with fighter powers and marking with ranger powers is non-optimal).

I'd be tempted to go with Warden/Ranger instead, frankly -- Warden marking -is- compatable with ranger striking, and the same stat array (16/16/16, likely, str/dex/wis; a hide build) will work nicely with the Hybrid Warden.

Either way, you've got a few options.  Taking a balanced dex/str array lets you avoid worrying about armor and keep the ranger ranged facility.  As a hybrid talent, I'd likely grab fighting style (beast mastery to combine your tanking with a ranger's off-tanking, or two-blade fighting to get a bit more damage and free Toughness), but other options include (warden) warden's armored might (which could let you go str/wis--maybe 20/18 with a longtooth, or str/con/wis with a dwarf), Font of Life (more useful mid/highlevel, though), combat specialty or combat talent (maybe tempest technique).

Best defending options would be beast mastery, font of life, and warden's armored might
Best strikery option would be combat talent (tempest technique) -- very solid, as this build would be getting +1 to AC, +1 to hit ,and +2 to damage all the time with ofhand weapons -- thus possibly outdamaging a non-hybrid ranger even with daggers (or better, drow long knife) (and with reasonably balanced str/dex, you could switch to thrown attacks without loss of damage).


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## Turtlejay (Mar 29, 2010)

Aragon-esque sword and bow masters are not all fighter\ranger hybrids.

You could do this with a straight Ranger, or with a Warlord (and Warlord would fit Aragorn's regal nature).  One thing about 4e that is tough to swallow is that fighters are not the only *fighters*, and rangers are no longer just wilderness loving loners.  The crunch is divorced from the fluff somewhat, so you can feel free to reflavor if you want.  For what it's worth, role wise, this is how I see it:
Aragorn - Leader
Gimli - Defender
Legolas - Striker

Making Aaragorn a prime candidate for Warlord, IMO.  The new build even works well with archery.  Hybriding for ranged with one class and melee with another might be a little cumbersome.  If you can make it work, then go for it.

Jay


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## mneme (Mar 29, 2010)

Actually, Aragorn is the archtypical ranger from which all D&D rangers are derived (as opposed to the -typical- ranger, which is, of course, drizzt).  Even when he takes on the mantle of kingship, it's reasonable enough to make that a warlord multiclass.  (this aside from the post AD&D association of ranger=two weapon fighter which permiates the D&D ranger; I'd probably build Aragorn as a marauder, and thereby avoid at least a bit of that).

The reason to build such a character as a hybrid is more, methinks, to build a defender with a lot of ranged umph, or to build a ranger-style striker with more stickiness or better defenses, or just to do a concept that's not as easily handlable single-class -- like my "tempest technique+ranger powers" concept or the "fighter with a beast" ultra-sticky build.   Just "I use a bow and a sword?"  That's a ranger -- or, depending, a ranged warlord.


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## Tarrl (Mar 29, 2010)

Here is HandSome BoB @ 11th Level. This is actually my character. He was very fun to play and highly useful in multiple ways. If you see anyway to improve upon this, I would def love to hear it. 
Thanks!

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
HandSome BoB, level 11
Drow, Fighter|Ranger, Shock Trooper
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Fighter Combat Talent
Fighter Combat Talent: Tempest Technique
Darkfire: Darkfire Wisdom
Background: Silent Hunter (Silent Hunter Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 11, Dex 18, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 13.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10.

AC: 26 Fort: 25 Reflex: 22 Will: 20
HP: 74 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 18
TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +14, Dungeoneering +13, Perception +14, Acrobatics +14, Religion +9
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +6, Heal +8, History +4, Insight +8, Intimidate +8, Nature +8, Stealth +11, Streetwise +6, Thievery +8
FEATS
Level 1: Xen'drik Weapon Training
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 6: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 8: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 10: Deft Hurler Style
Level 11: Heavy Blade Opportunity
POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Cleave
Hybrid encounter 1: Two-Fanged Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Tempest Dance
Hybrid utility 2: Pass Forward
Hybrid encounter 3: Sweeping Blow
Hybrid daily 5: Two-Wolf Pounce
Hybrid utility 6: Eyes of the Deep Delver
Hybrid encounter 7: Claws of the Griffon
Hybrid daily 9: Attacks on the Run
Hybrid utility 10: Undaunted Stride
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Distance Drow Long Knife +1, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Elven Battle Hide Armor +2, Vengeful Drow Long Knife +2, Cloak of Survival +2, Potion of Vigor (heroic tier), Potion of Healing (heroic tier), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Drow Long Knife of Great Opportunity +2, Predator's Hide Earthhide Armor +3
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


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## mneme (Mar 29, 2010)

Looks good, really; can't argue with any of your choices except maybe making a Drow rather than a Half-orc (which doesn't seem to be included in your stats; how'd you manage to have an Int of 8 and a Cha of 10 as a drow?); Xendrik weapon training is good, though.  (and I think the warden/ranger build is a touch stronger than the fighter/ranger, due to the better marking capabilities and sudden roots)


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## Tarrl (Mar 30, 2010)

He is a Drow. The final ablitity scores say 13 for cha so I am not sure how that happened for starting stats. Must not include racial bonus's. I had given the warden some thought, but there is already a fighter and a cha paladin in the group. 
Thanks for the advice.
D


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## mneme (Mar 30, 2010)

Tarrl said:


> He is a Drow. The final ablitity scores say 13 for cha so I am not sure how that happened for starting stats. Must not include racial bonus's.
> D




Hmm.  Maybe.  re warden vs fighter; the fighter doesn't get to mark -and- do quarry damage in the same round often, but does outdamage the hybrid warden (except mabye when the warden uses a daily).  The warden has a useful mark and can attack as a ranger nearly all the time (one warden encounter power, ignore the at-will except on charges, and you actually -want- most of your dailies to be warden dailies and they're minor action invokes anyway; you can afford to action point in most turns where you're taking a non-immediate attack from a Warden daily), can build so as to only maintain 2 stats (str/wis) and still have full AC and secondary features [including, with the right stat, starting with a 19 or 20 stat], but has problems keeping multiple foes marked.  It all depends.

Re abilities, hmm.  Ok, got it; they're preracial, and you took all your bumps in str/dex (which makes sense).


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## doctorhook (May 31, 2010)

Necrothread: I found this thread via Google, and it's close enough for what I need to ask.

Can anyone confirm that "Hybrid Fighter Combat Talent (Tempest Technique)" and "Hybrid Ranger Fighting Style (Two-Blade Fighting Style)" actually stack? Two-Blade Fighting Style lets me use a one-handed weapon as though it were an off-hand weapon. Tempest Technique gives me bonuses if I'm using weapons with the off-hand property. (The Hybrid versions of these abilities are identical to the full versions, which you can find in Player's Handbook 1 and Martial Power 1.)

Do these features totally stack? If not, how much am I losing out on by using them together?


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## Aulirophile (May 31, 2010)

doctorhook said:


> Necrothread: I found this thread via Google, and it's close enough for what I need to ask.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that "Hybrid Fighter Combat Talent (Tempest Technique)" and "Hybrid Ranger Fighting Style (Two-Blade Fighting Style)" actually stack? Two-Blade Fighting Style lets me use a one-handed weapon as though it were an off-hand weapon. Tempest Technique gives me bonuses if I'm using weapons with the off-hand property. (The Hybrid versions of these abilities are identical to the full versions, which you can find in Player's Handbook 1 and Martial Power 1.)
> 
> Do these features totally stack? If not, how much am I losing out on by using them together?



You'd have to Paragon Hybrid to get both anyway.... and that is a very, very large waste.


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## doctorhook (May 31, 2010)

Aulirophile said:


> You'd have to Paragon Hybrid to get both anyway.... and that is a very, very large waste.



Yes, I suppose it is. But if I did do Paragon Hybrid anyway, would those two features work together properly?

If not, can you spell it out for me exactly what I'd be missing?


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## Klaus (May 31, 2010)

Mercurius said:


> I'm going to introduce an Aragorn-esque sword-and-bow master type NPC in my session tonight (9-10th level), probably later on in the evening and not involving combat so the stats don't need to be totally formed yet. But I wanted to get some feedback and make sure I'm not missing the mark by creating a fighter-ranger hybrid. Are they too similar? If I want the character to be a wilderness type with a focus on swords and blows, should I just stick with a ranger? What's the benefit of hybridizing with fighter? Any feats or powers I should pay especial attention to? Etc.
> 
> Think of Aragorn a couple decades before the LotR, and replacing the gloomy vibe and heavy heritage with a more mercenary/adventurous bent, and a strong skill in swords and bows. In other words, imagine Aragorn if Fritz Lieber or Robert Howard were writing him.
> 
> ...



You don't need a ranger/fighter hybrid for Aragorn.

Just play a Bard. Bards have melee and ranged weapon powers, can take up chainmail from the get-go, and a Valorous Bard favors Constitution, which bumps hit points to defender-like ammounts.

Favor the less "magical" powers (which are mostly the weapon ones), take Nature as a trained skill and you're good to go.


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## Karmic_vegeance (Jun 2, 2010)

doctorhook said:


> Necrothread: I found this thread via Google, and it's close enough for what I need to ask.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that "Hybrid Fighter Combat Talent (Tempest Technique)" and "Hybrid Ranger Fighting Style (Two-Blade Fighting Style)" actually stack? Two-Blade Fighting Style lets me use a one-handed weapon as though it were an off-hand weapon. Tempest Technique gives me bonuses if I'm using weapons with the off-hand property. (The Hybrid versions of these abilities are identical to the full versions, which you can find in Player's Handbook 1 and Martial Power 1.)
> 
> Do these features totally stack? If not, how much am I losing out on by using them together?



The wording on Two-blade Fighting Style says that you wield the secondary weapon "as if it were an off-hand weapon." This suggests to me that it does not gain the "Off-hand" property, and thus doesn't benefit from the attack and damage bonus to "weapons with the off-hand property" from Tempest Technique (YMMV, however). You would still get the base +1 damage to melee and close attacks when wearing light armor/chainmail, however. That, and the free feats.


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## Mika (Jun 2, 2010)

mneme said:


> Looks good, really; can't argue with any of your choices except maybe making a Drow rather than a Half-orc (which doesn't seem to be included in your stats; how'd you manage to have an Int of 8 and a Cha of 10 as a drow?); Xendrik weapon training is good, though.  (and I think the warden/ranger build is a touch stronger than the fighter/ranger, due to the better marking capabilities and sudden roots)




Starting ability scores do not include racial adjustments.  I made the same mistake on another message board.


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## Garthanos (Jun 2, 2010)

Turtlejay said:


> Aragon-esque sword and bow masters are not all fighterranger hybrids.
> 
> You could do this with a straight Ranger, or with a Warlord (and Warlord would fit Aragorn's regal nature).  One thing about 4e that is tough to swallow is that fighters are not the only *fighters*, and rangers are no longer just wilderness loving loners.  The crunch is divorced from the fluff somewhat, so you can feel free to reflavor if you want.  For what it's worth, role wise, this is how I see it:
> Aragorn - Leader
> ...




This is exactly my take on it.. Paragon multiclassing Aragorn as Ranger also works for the story of the character ... starts warlord (before we see him).. multiclasses ranger (strider)... epics with the return of the King. Legalos is a full ranger and Gimli full on fighter... also why legalos is the winner in body count (although cleaves and similar can take down loads of minions) it may not have been that fair of contest.


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## Budalic (Jun 2, 2010)

If you want sword & bow character, hunter fighting style from Martial Power 2 looks really well. Granted, it's a bit better for dex/wis rangers than str/dex.


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## Otterscrubber (Jun 2, 2010)

Well I like melee dps, so I found a ranger fight hybrid didn't work as well as a ranger multiclassed into fighter.  With a few exceptions, the ranger dailies and encounter powers are very forgettable.  However fighters have some great ones, as well as very good paragon paths that help with both defense and damage output.  A two blade ranger with multi into fighter for some of those sweet, sweet stances and a paragon path that helps with AC works quite nicely.


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## Ebylon (Jun 2, 2010)

If he's an NPC, there is absolutely no point to use the Character Builder/PC creation rules to create your Aragorn-type. The beauty of creating monsters/NPCs is that you can do whatever the hell you want with them.

Is he a crack shot with a bow and extremely skilled with the sword? Then give him an attack bonus to show that, if you think it'll be balanced. 

Sure, use inspiration from actual PC character powers for your NPC's powers, but don't restrain yourself creatively by forcing yourself to follow the PC building rules. Look at fighter, ranger, even warlord powers. Pick ones you like that round out your intended theme for the NPC, and then jigger with them to make sure that they fit from a monster/NPC standpoint.


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## igniz13 (Jun 5, 2010)

There's no point making a twinked out NPC who uses PC rules. If you're going to use him in combat then it's probably best to make someone who supports and doesn't overshadow.

The two build options TWF from Ranger and Tempest Technique don't stack. Not entirely sure Aragon DW'd either.


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## doctorhook (Jun 5, 2010)

igniz13 said:


> The two build options TWF from Ranger and Tempest Technique don't stack. Not entirely sure Aragon DW'd either.



You'll need to be more specific about which parts don't stack and why. As for Aragorn dual-wielding, I'm not sure if anyone here was suggesting that he did...

Btw, welcome to the boards!


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## DracoSuave (Jun 6, 2010)

Aulirophile said:


> You'd have to Paragon Hybrid to get both anyway.... and that is a very, very large waste.




Not if the two class features stack!

I was going to go into character builder to see how it handles it, but then I remembered that character builder does not actually handle the off-hand trait correctly to start, never has, and probably never will.  So whatever it does is more likely wrong than right, don't do that.

Stupid Character Builder.

------------------

You cannot do it with the Ranger version.  The reason is that it only allows the use in your off-hand as if it had the off-hand property.  That means that, for the purposes of using it in the off-hand, it does have the property, but for other purposes (such as Tempest Technique) it does not.

However, the Barbarian's Whirling Slayer DOES work, because it 'treats it as an off-hand weapon' and is non-specific.

So in the case of the Barbarian, a Fighter could get their +1 to hit and +2 damage with the bastard sword they're holding in their off hand.


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## Aulirophile (Jun 6, 2010)

DracoSuave said:


> Not if the two class features stack!
> 
> I was going to go into character builder to see how it handles it, but then I remembered that character builder does not actually handle the off-hand trait correctly to start, never has, and probably never will.  So whatever it does is more likely wrong than right, don't do that.
> 
> ...



Uh-huh. 

Kensei. I have to use a 1d6 instead of a 1d10 but I get +4 to damage and additional +1 to hit. Since 1 hit is > 1 average damage, I'm beating the 1d10 by more then 3 average damage. So for single-target, I'll be generous, it ties at 3[w] single-target attacks. You give up Whirling Lunge in exchange for the ability to spend an AP to reroll, and you get some awesome powers. Oh, and I save a feat, I'm proficienct in Short Swords by default.

Paragon Hybrid is a waste, because for the most part it can be done better by fiddling around with a build and taking the right PP. I've been trying since the PHB3 came out to find a combo that is superior to simply taking a normal PP, and I haven't managed it. I haven't seen a build on CharOp that uses it either, the couple threads that've had one people immediately redid the builds with a real PP and it ended up better in every case.


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## DracoSuave (Jun 6, 2010)

Aulirophile said:


> Uh-huh.
> 
> Kensei. I have to use a 1d6 instead of a 1d10 but I get +4 to damage and additional +1 to hit. Since 1 hit is > 1 average damage, I'm beating the 1d10 by more then 3 average damage. So for single-target, I'll be generous, it ties at 3[w] single-target attacks. You give up Whirling Lunge in exchange for the ability to spend an AP to reroll, and you get some awesome powers. Oh, and I save a feat, I'm proficienct in Short Swords by default.
> 
> Paragon Hybrid is a waste, because for the most part it can be done better by fiddling around with a build and taking the right PP. I've been trying since the PHB3 came out to find a combo that is superior to simply taking a normal PP, and I haven't managed it. I haven't seen a build on CharOp that uses it either, the couple threads that've had one people immediately redid the builds with a real PP and it ended up better in every case.




Brawler/Monk says +6 proficiency bonus with 1d10 weapons is delicious, and not something PPs can do.


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## Aulirophile (Jun 6, 2010)

DracoSuave said:


> Brawler/Monk says +6 proficiency bonus with 1d10 weapons is delicious, and not something PPs can do.



Brawler gives you an Enhancement bonus. Which makes it equivalent to using a magic item, something you of course normally can't do with an unarmed attack, but it would, for instance, not stack with a Magical Spiked Gauntlet (which gives an identical bonus to Brawler style for attack/damage). Doesn't stack with Ki Foci, either, since both are Enhancement bonuses. So you skipped taking a PP to get a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 to bonus to Fort when your hand is empty or you're grabbing someone. Either way, it isn't a +6 proficiency anything. It is a +3 prof with scaling identical to having a magic item. You saved some gold, I guess?

Not sure where you got the 1d10 from, Unarmed Combatant is 1d8.


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## DracoSuave (Jun 8, 2010)

Aulirophile said:


> Brawler gives you an Enhancement bonus. Which makes it equivalent to using a magic item,




But I... uh...


DAMN YOU UPDDAAAAATTTTOOOORRRRR!



> Not sure where you got the 1d10 from, Unarmed Combatant is 1d8.




The feat that gives you that, of course.


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## Herschel (Jun 8, 2010)

bganon said:


> If you want swords *and* bows, you might actually look in the Warlord class. There's a ranged warlord option, that way you can get both melee/ranged to key off STR, making it less difficult to be good at both.





This was my thought as well. Aragorn's a leader-type as well as being good in combat.


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## Klaus (Jun 8, 2010)

I agree that Aragorn is a leader-type, but I think he fits Bard better than Warlord:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Aragorn, level 10
Half-Elf, Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Student of the Sword: Student of One-Handed Weapons

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 20.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16.


AC: 21 Fort: 18 Reflex: 18 Will: 21
HP: 73 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 18

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +12, Athletics +13, Heal +11, Nature +13, Perception +11, Diplomacy +17, Endurance +13, Stealth +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Bluff +11, Dungeoneering +9, History +8, Insight +9, Intimidate +11, Religion +8, Streetwise +13, Thievery +8

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Bardic Knowledge
Level 2: Inspiring Leader
Level 4: Student of the Sword
Level 6: Warrior of the Wild
Level 8: Light Step
Level 10: Group Insight

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: War Song Strike
Bard at-will 1: Jinx Shot (ranged)
Dilettante: Ardent Strike
Bard encounter 1: Prophesied Strike (ranged)
Bard daily 1: Slayer's Song
Bard utility 2: Healer's Gift
Bard encounter 3: Charger's Call
Bard daily 5: Arrow of Ill Omen (ranged)
Bard utility 6: Mighty Sprint
Bard encounter 7: Scorpion's Claw Strike
Bard daily 9: Saga of Vengeance (ranged)
Bard utility 10: Spot the Path

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Sylvan Leather Armor +2, Righteous Longsword +2, Distance Shortbow +2, Grace Ring of Salvation (paragon tier), Quicksilver Blade Dagger +3
RITUALS
Banish Vermin, Create Campsite, Gentle Repose, Traveler's Chant, Delay Affliction, Snare, Preserve Flame, Song of Sustenance, Trailblaze
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


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## Samir (Jun 9, 2010)

Aragorn would make a good Warlord, as long as you yell "bring him down, Legolas!" every time you use Direct the Strike.


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## Klaus (Jun 9, 2010)

Samir said:


> Aragorn would make a good Warlord, as long as you yell "bring him down, Legolas!" every time you use Direct the Strike.



Aragorn (or any of the members of the Fellowship, beyond possibly Gimli and Boromir) never struck me as being immensely strong. OTOH, Aragorn sang a whole lot and Middle-Earth has a big "heroes are blessed by grace" vibe going.


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## Samir (Jun 10, 2010)

Klaus said:


> Aragorn (or any of the members of the Fellowship, beyond possibly Gimli and Boromir) never struck me as being immensely strong. OTOH, Aragorn sang a whole lot and Middle-Earth has a big "heroes are blessed by grace" vibe going.



Aragorn could be templated as a lot of things, but the 4e Bard--with its distinctly Arcane fluff--is a rather unusual candidate.

He doesn't practice or fight with magic, which is at odds with the Bard's prolific use of spells and magic-assisted melee. Aragorn's combat skills are primarily martial: he's a warrior and a commander, both of which are pretty on-the-mark for Warlord.


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## Klaus (Jun 10, 2010)

Samir said:


> Aragorn could be templated as a lot of things, but the 4e Bard--with its distinctly Arcane fluff--is a rather unusual candidate.
> 
> He doesn't practice or fight with magic, which is at odds with the Bard's prolific use of spells and magic-assisted melee. Aragorn's combat skills are primarily martial: he's a warrior and a commander, both of which are pretty on-the-mark for Warlord.



1. Everything in Middle-Earth was magical simply through the essential magic of the setting.

2. Just because the bard is an Arcane class doesn't mean that a bard character is casting spells. Just change the fluff.

3. The powers I chose are all "weapon" powers with no truly magical effects. Jinx Shot unbalances an opponent, War Song Strike grants temp hp to the next ally that hits the target, etc. Chalk it up to inspiration.

4. The rituals I chose mimic perfectly the abilities of Aragorn as a ranger of the North.

5. The dude is crowned king and what is the first thing he does? He breaks into song!


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## Garthanos (Jun 11, 2010)

I am ambivalent - ie would accept either Warlord or Bard as reasonably valid design for a PC version of Aragorn.
The kings magic we see Aragorn involved in ranging from enhanced healing to oath binding magics (that could be rituals).  The singing he does is as much a normal act of singing than something used to rally the people.
I think you have more options open using Warlord as a model than Bard ... but you really only need just enough and bard does have enough powers skinnable with a martial light to work.

I like this rendition.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...276987-d-d-4th-edition-stats.html#post5188602

The two weapon archer ranger is Legalos from top to bottom. .. insisting because Aragorn is the Ranger that he needs to be "a ranger" is I think us/me being stubborn.  A real life ranger is/was someone engaged in border patrol likely requiring survival and fighting skills that is all. (ie add nature skill to any class in the game).


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## Samir (Jun 11, 2010)

Klaus said:


> 1. Everything in Middle-Earth was magical simply through the essential magic of the setting.



Same with the 4e core setting, but that doesn't necessarily mean a Swordmage fights the same way a Ranger does.



Klaus said:


> 2. Just because the bard is an Arcane class doesn't mean that a bard character is casting spells. Just change the fluff.
> 
> 3. The powers I chose are all "weapon" powers with no truly magical effects. Jinx Shot unbalances an opponent, War Song Strike grants temp hp to the next ally that hits the target, etc. Chalk it up to inspiration.



Let me clarify: I'm not saying you _can't_ template Aragorn as a Bard. You can really template anything as anything if you refluff it. An attack without fluff is just a die roll, after all; it's the fluff that makes it a sword strike, a loosed arrow, or a burst of lightning.

It's possible to say "Legolas would be a Warlock, because we refluffed Eldritch Blast into an arrow shot IMC"--and that's a perfectly valid re-skin, but if we're not talking about core 4e, then really no class is a better representation of Aragorn, Legolas, or the Cookie Monster than any other.

Keeping that in mind, it's my opinion that the core 4e Warlord fits the bill without any kind of refluffage. (Is that a word?)


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## Klaus (Jun 11, 2010)

Samir said:


> Same with the 4e core setting, but that doesn't necessarily mean a Swordmage fights the same way a Ranger does.
> 
> 
> Let me clarify: I'm not saying you _can't_ template Aragorn as a Bard. You can really template anything as anything if you refluff it. An attack without fluff is just a die roll, after all; it's the fluff that makes it a sword strike, a loosed arrow, or a burst of lightning.
> ...



If refluffage wasn't a word, it is now.

One of the things that I noticed about the Valorous Bard when it first came out is that it out-warlorded the warlord, being a better combat leader. And, to keep it from being too arcane, my build has multiclass feats for Fighter, Warlord and Ranger.


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