# iPhone 5S



## Morrus (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm long overdue an upgrade, so I guess I'll probably get one (locked into Apple's ecosystem by now by way of purchased music and apps). I found nothing exciting in that announcement though. Incremental speed upgrades are expected; camera improvements every year don't interest me that much; and the fingerprint sensor might be mildly useful but it's not interesting to me at all.

Is is at the point where the phone will not surprise us again? The new excitement will be glasses, watches, and other wearable tech? Or am I just jaded?


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 11, 2013)

I do not know why but I want to reference the thread on "Should Movies Explain the Tech"  It's a smart phone and I think the shine has worn off and most of us don't care about the newest techno-babble in the device, we just want it to work.  

Add-ons, now that sound cool...when will I get my X-Ray glasses attachment for my iPhone or my radar movement tracker to pickup aliens or zombies on my smart device! Or better yet, turn it into a sonic screwdriver!


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## darjr (Sep 11, 2013)

The finger print thing sounds like NSAs fantasy dream come true.


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## Umbran (Sep 11, 2013)

It isn't like fingerprint scanners are new on computers.  Windows XP had support for them in laptops over a decade ago, if I recall correctly.  Nobody screamed about them then.  Suddenly, put it on a phone, and OMG, security nightmare!


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 11, 2013)

Umbran said:


> It isn't like fingerprint scanners are new on computers.  Windows XP had support for them in laptops over a decade ago, if I recall correctly.  Nobody screamed about them then.  Suddenly, put it on a phone, and OMG, security nightmare!



 Tin Foil Hat Time  
That is because your fingerprint will be on the cloud and interacting with other devices, credit card transaction & finger print, instant gratification to the bank and the NSA has a copy, you get charged a monthly service fee.   
 Tin Foil Hat Time


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## Morrus (Sep 11, 2013)

Hand of Evil said:


> That is because your fingerprint will be on the cloud and interacting with other devices,




Most people won't think that, I'd imagine*.  They made it very clear that it would not be in the cloud, would not interact with other devices, and would not be available to app developers.  It's stored in its own dedicated chip on board the device itself, and never leaves the device.


*What am I saying?  Of course they will! That's what people do!


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## Janx (Sep 11, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Most people won't think that, I'd imagine*.  They made it very clear that it would not be in the cloud, would not interact with other devices, and would not be available to app developers.  It's stored in its own dedicated chip on board the device itself, and never leaves the device.




Yeah.  If the NSA wants your prints, they'll just grab some garbage.  Your prints are EVERYWHERE. Easily aquired.

Now hypothetically, the difference between the finger scanner on my PC that I never use vs. on my phone is this:

Windows never really integrated the finger scanner.  I've NEVER seen a PC with that software enabled and ready to go out of the box.  As a result, it was a piece of hardware that never saw use.

Now for smart phones.  They need identity management.  When Mr. Morrus picks up his iPhone, it should show him Mr. Morrus's email, bank balance etc.  When Mrs. Morrus picks it up, it should show her Candy Crush and her email.

The smoothest way to do that is when you click the Home button to activate the screen.  If that scan happens FAST, then it is seamless.  Once Mr. Morrus clicks the Home button, his favorite picture pops up as the background and he swipes it open.  No different than any other time he unlocked an iOS device.  His wife sees her background when she does it.  Slick.

The security is needed because people can already deduce your swipe pattern by the smudges on the screen.  Your smartphone is a security risk if I steal it and get into it before you realize its gone to do a remote wipe (and there's stuff I can do to stop that as well).  People say they got nothing sensitive on these devices until they realize what they forgot about when a hacker hits.

That's the story of how it could work, and what value it could have.

I'm a little disappointed in the news coverage, as it seems like there's no single "here's everything that was said" article to cover the highlights.  I haven't actually seen an article about the fingerprint scanner post-presentation.

My wife will get a 5s.  She's due for an upgrade and has a 4s.  She'll get $150 for it in trade-in at Worst Buy (I got $140 on my iPhone 4 just 2 months ago).


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## tomBitonti (Sep 11, 2013)

I thought this style of identity detection (using biometrics) was decided upon as a poor technique by the security community?

Once someone else has your fingerprint and a way to spoof it, there is no way to generate a new biometric.

Practically, using a fingerprint has a problem of use in an even slightly dirty environment, or with wearing gloves, or, say, what happens if you have a cut or burn.

Thx!

TomB


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## Janx (Sep 11, 2013)

tomBitonti said:


> I thought this style of identity detection (using biometrics) was decided upon as a poor technique by the security community?
> 
> Once someone else has your fingerprint and a way to spoof it, there is no way to generate a new biometric.
> 
> ...




True enough.

I think there's the matter of what kind of threat/problem is the fingerscanner going to solve/not solve.

It won't solve the NSA getting into your phone because you are a suspect and they've sent an agent to capture your print, and make a duplicate finger to open your phone when you're in the bathroom at the Embassy ball.  they have better tech to foil your security.  But I think in general, you are screwed when a spy organization decides to aim at you.

It will solve keeping your kids out of your profile.

It will solve the hoodlum who lifted your phone at Starbucks or punched you in the face and took your smart phone.  Which is probably the top risk to smart phone owners right now.

The potential of false-failure, where a damaged finger prevents you from getting into your phone is also an issue.  Per one article I saw, the chip can manage multiple fingers, so if you inventoried all your fingers, you can try a different one.

I had surmised Apple would use the camera and facial recognition during the swiping process, using hardware already in the phone, but clearly, that hasn't happened.


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## Morrus (Sep 11, 2013)

Weird. I didn't for a moment imagine it was anything more than a quick way to optionally bypass entering a code. Why are you guys thinking you won't still be able to enter your pass code if there's a scanning issue?

Also, [MENTION=8835]Janx[/MENTION] - that doesn't remotely resemble my phone usage. My wife and I have our own phones, as I suspect is common. Sharing a phone would make it hard for me to call her!


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## Deset Gled (Sep 11, 2013)

tomBitonti said:


> I thought this style of identity detection (using biometrics) was decided upon as a poor technique by the security community?
> 
> Once someone else has your fingerprint and a way to spoof it, there is no way to generate a new biometric.




Well, if hackers steal one of your fingerprints, just use a different finger.  

You are generally correct, though.  Biometrics are a poor method of security.  What they are useful for is user identification.  Like Janx mentioned, you could have the phone recognize the user and pull up their profile based on who pulls it up, like a user log in that doesn't require you to remember the user name.  I used to work at a company that was implementing fingerprint identification for QA purposes (i.e. the system knows that Worker #23 built widget #294839).  I ended up leaving that company before the implementation was successful, though.

The part that confuses me is the things that made fingerprinting useful there make it a pain in the butt for a phone.  There are inevitably going to be times when it is *useful* to log in as someone else on a computer, and fingerprint access makes that hard.  And the concept of user accounts is potentially useful on a shared computer, but phones tend to be single-user system.  I really have no reason to set up a second user account for my wife.  I suppose there may be times when it's useful for kids or emergency calls, but proper passwording and 911 access on home screens have already solved these problems.



> Practically, using a fingerprint has a problem of use in an even slightly dirty environment, or with wearing gloves, or, say, what happens if you have a cut or burn.




Aside from wearing a bandage over a cut, this is less of an issue that you would think.  A fingerprint scanner doesn't actually take a photo and compare direct images of your print to a previous image.  At least, the one we used in manufacturing didn't.  Instead, it processed the scan as a series of lines, and identified about 10 key locations: things like intersecting lines, centers of circles, etc.  It then stored just the data for these points, and compared them to the same key points on any new scan.  It could allow a couple of points to change (i.e. you have a small cut, one point is screwed up) and still pass the scan.  Coloration or lighting wouldn't have any effect as long as there was sufficient contrast, and distortion of the image could be allowed as long as it was uniform in the right way (i.e. known smudging or scanning artifacts).

This method also removes the security risk of hackers (or the NSA) stealing your fingerprint for access elsewhere.  Since the system didn't actually store an image of your fingerprint, there was no way to completely reconstruct it.  A stolen data file could only be used to spoof your ID if it was used on an identical fingerprint ID system with identical settings.


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## Mallus (Sep 11, 2013)

The reason I'm not excited about the iPhone 5s --or any of the new smartphones, really-- is that my 32GB 4s is still a damn good mobile device. My only complaint is the battery doesn't last quite as long as it used to. 

Maybe I'll upgrade next year... or, you know, just replace the battery.


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## darjr (Sep 11, 2013)

The fingerprint thing on the iphone is something that folks must press in order to use their phone, it can't be ignored or worked around. Apple assuring us that it's secure and only on the phone is, well, not a thing I'll trust on just their say so. So millions of users scanning their fingerprint constantly and all of them available potentially to be warehoused and then used at the NSA's leisure. Tin foil hat, yea, it is, I realize that it's hyperbole, but I would have said it was tin foil hat to accuse the NSA about a ton of stuff the NSA has already done and continues to do right now. Lots of stuff, as far as I know, they've had to admit to by court order.

Eh... I realize I'm straying into politics. I'll stop now and remove this if I need to.


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## Janx (Sep 11, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Weird. I didn't for a moment imagine it was anything more than a quick way to optionally bypass entering a code. Why are you guys thinking you won't still be able to enter your pass code if there's a scanning issue?
> 
> Also, [MENTION=8835]Janx[/MENTION] - that doesn't remotely resemble my phone usage. My wife and I have our own phones, as I suspect is common. Sharing a phone would make it hard for me to call her!




Because we didn't think of that 

Well, the you and your wife scenario was contrived.  Though having "any" iPhone you swipe become "your" iPhone might be handy (though not in a promiscuous way, I'm thinking within your own household).

The problem is more common with parent and kids and tablet devices.  Both of those scenarios involve more sharing of the device.

While i wouldn't consider it, it seems quite a few parents are more than happy to hand over the device to the little rugrats to shut them up while waiting in line.

So imagine it more as debuting on iPhone 5s, but its real value would be seen on iPad5.


In any event, I don't choose to buy/not buy the next iPhone based on what new doohickey Apple puts in it.

I've been in iOS since the iPod Touch 1, so like you, we're invested in the platform.  Since it doesn't particularly suck (aside from paying to rebuy stuff in Android, Android doesn't offer anything I care about), iOS is good enough.

So, instead, our decision is to buy the "current" model when a phone's 2 year contract expires.  I started with the 3g, so I got the 4 and now the 5.  My wife is on the odd years, so she went from 3gs, 4s and will pick up the 5s.

We do this because it load balances the expense, and we maximize trade-in value of the old model to defray the cost of the new model.  it also avoids battery issues as the batteries start to go soft after 18-24 months.

Since Apple only supports a model for 3 years, we get rid of the old model before it truly hits end of life, thus protecting our resale value.  If you hold the phone too long, you're losing value.  Getting 50% of the price of the newest model is what helps keep the treadmill a viable proposition.

Barring some horrible policy announcement by Apple, we're not likely to get off the iOS train.  We've got too many apps and music bought up and licensed to too many devices (2 ipads and 2 iPhones). And since we oscillate who upgrades when, there's never a time to make a clean break if I wanted to.


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## Morrus (Sep 11, 2013)

darjr said:


> The fingerprint thing on the iphone is something that folks must press in order to use their phone, it can't be ignored or worked around.




Of course it can. You can enter a 4-digit code instead.



> Apple assuring us that it's secure and only on the phone is, well, not a thing I'll trust on just their say so.




Well, in that case, why believe anything Apple says about the phone?  Besides, I'm sure it'll take an intraweb full of tech people about 3 seconds to verify that once they get their phones.  It would be a remarkably silly thing to lie about.



Janx said:


> Barring some horrible policy announcement by Apple, we're not likely to  get off the iOS train.  We've got too many apps and music bought up and  licensed to too many devices (2 ipads and 2 iPhones). And since we  oscillate who upgrades when, there's never a time to make a clean break  if I wanted to.




Yeah, same here.  Locked in!


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## darjr (Sep 11, 2013)

iOS is good. I do really like it. Though I'm starting to like android a bit more. My nephew can really get around on iOS, not so much on android.

Anyway I thought the music was mostly DRM free now? But I do feel the pain of changing eco systems.


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## tomBitonti (Sep 11, 2013)

Deset Gled said:


> Well, if hackers steal one of your fingerprints, just use a different finger.
> 
> You are generally correct, though.  Biometrics are a poor method of security.  What they are useful for is user identification.  Like Janx mentioned, you could have the phone recognize the user and pull up their profile based on who pulls it up, like a user log in that doesn't require you to remember the user name.  I used to work at a company that was implementing fingerprint identification for QA purposes (i.e. the system knows that Worker #23 built widget #294839).  I ended up leaving that company before the implementation was successful, though.
> 
> The part that confuses me is the things that made fingerprinting useful there make it a pain in the butt for a phone.  There are inevitably going to be times when it is *useful* to log in as someone else on a computer, and fingerprint access makes that hard.  And the concept of user accounts is potentially useful on a shared computer, but phones tend to be single-user system.  I really have no reason to set up a second user account for my wife.  I suppose there may be times when it's useful for kids or emergency calls, but proper passwording and 911 access on home screens have already solved these problems.




Thanks for the info!

About user profile selection, would this be useful in conjunction with other devices? That is, for profile selection out of the cloud? That is, not only for identifying the user to the iPhone, but for the iPhone identifying itself and the user to the cloud?

I think that is a stretch.  I'm trying to make the feature useful, and trying to see what bigger goals could be planned for the technology.

I do wonder what demand there is for this feature.  Most folks seem to use the four digit quick login quickly and without complaint.  Do corporate or government agencies have a need for this feature?

I personally don't think I would use it, and would rather not have to pay for it if I ever upgrade.  I don't suppose there is a model which doesn't have the scanner?

OhOh! If your device is confiscated, say, as a part of an police or border security investigation, would you be required to disable the feature when you handed over the device?  Hmm.

And, is it tin foil hattery to wonder if the implementation (the independent chip, or whatever) has built in overrides, added to satisfy certain unnamed agencies?

I do think the Apple model of telling people what they want (Jobs famous statement) is rather poor practice for this feature, as it is setting a wide policy in regards to security and the use of fingerprints.

Thx!

TomB


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## Morrus (Sep 11, 2013)

tomBitonti said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> About user profile selection, would this be useful in conjunction with other devices? That is, for profile selection out of the cloud? That is, not only for identifying the user to the iPhone, but for the iPhone identifying itself and the user to the cloud?




It doesn't have user profile selection.

The fingerprint thing is literally just a small thing to bypass entering a passcode.  That's all.  They said at the speech that it was based on the fact that their research showed that over half the customers don't put a passcode on their phones because they find it too inconvenient.  This is merely providing an alternative to that.


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## Janx (Sep 11, 2013)

Deset Gled said:


> The part that confuses me is the things that made fingerprinting useful there make it a pain in the butt for a phone.  There are inevitably going to be times when it is *useful* to log in as someone else on a computer, and fingerprint access makes that hard.  And the concept of user accounts is potentially useful on a shared computer, but phones tend to be single-user system.  I really have no reason to set up a second user account for my wife.  I suppose there may be times when it's useful for kids or emergency calls, but proper passwording and 911 access on home screens have already solved these problems.




nice write-up, which covers darjr's concern.

Right now, it's impossible to convince my wife to enable a password on her phone.  It's too much of a hassle.

So making some kind of security feature be seamless is better than leaving the front door unlocked.


And in my experience, she's not entirely wrong.  I've got an Android and iPhone with passcodes on both.  When you're in a hurry to place a call or look something up, or check an email, it is an extra fumbley hassle to get to the thing you really wanted to do.

So if the phone can identify me in a way that I don't notice, that's actually quite handy and less stressful when I've mis-swiped for the 3rd time and my wife is chiding me for having that stupid password turned on.

So doing the smart thing AND not looking stupid for doing so in front of the wife has some value


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## Janx (Sep 11, 2013)

darjr said:


> iOS is good. I do really like it. Though I'm starting to like android a bit more. My nephew can really get around on iOS, not so much on android.
> 
> Anyway I thought the music was mostly DRM free now? But I do feel the pain of changing eco systems.




it's not just about DRM, it's about being in a format your device can read.

MP3 may not be the most perfect audio format, but it is excellent for being supported on every music file playing device on the planet.

H.264 may not be the most perfect video format, but it runs on PSP, PS3, iThing, Xbox360 and PC.

Music bought from iTunes is in some other format.  Most other players likely don't support it.  So moving over isn't feasible without some effort.

This is where the pro-Android camp would chime in that buying everything in MP3 is the most perfectest thing in the world.  And they're right.

But it you're not planning to leave Apple, there's nothing wrong with iTunes.


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## darjr (Sep 11, 2013)

Janx said:


> Music bought from iTunes is in some other format.  Most other players likely don't support it.  So moving over isn't feasible without some effort.




iTunes does make it pretty easy to convert to mp3. I've done it and I don't think I've lost any quality. Though my ears are not what they used to be.


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## Janx (Sep 11, 2013)

Morrus said:


> It doesn't have user profile selection.
> 
> The fingerprint thing is literally just a small thing to bypass entering a passcode.  That's all.  They said at the speech that it was based on the fact that their research showed that over half the customers don't put a passcode on their phones because they find it too inconvenient.  This is merely providing an alternative to that.




True.  But this ties into a number of initiatives going on.

Android is working on multi-profile systems for their devices (like tablets), if some devices out there don't already have it, I'd be surprised.  As noted, this is more useful on tablet devises, but the technology is applicable to smart phones and tablets.  From a developer's standpoint, that means I'm going to make it work on everything, because it actually complicates things to differentiate, when making it universal has minimal harm (so what if your smartphone only has one profile on it if the wake-up sequence is non-impactful).

The telcos are now working on maintaining a national registry of stolen phones because smart phone theft is a growing problem.  Having a security mechanism to lock the iPhone so it can't be used/wiped or resold helps prevent that.

The current pass-code security isn't being used on most phones because it is a hassle.  Coming up with a security mechanism that is non-intrusive is the only way to get wide-spread adoption.


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## Morrus (Sep 11, 2013)

Janx said:


> The current pass-code security isn't being used on most phones because it is a hassle.  Coming up with a security mechanism that is non-intrusive is the only way to get wide-spread adoption.




Now you're just repeating what I'm saying!


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## Janx (Sep 11, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Now you're just repeating what I'm saying!




Great minds think alike?

Except when we forget that the user can enter a passcode if their finger doesn't work?

Having just read a new article, that's actually specifically described.

If you haven't opened your phone in 48 hours, you WILL have to enter the passcode instead.

So the finger-scan is for situations where the phone is obviously in my posession and frequently used (I lock my screen all the time, instead of letting the screen timer kick in)


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## Umbran (Sep 11, 2013)

Janx said:


> Except when we forget that the user can enter a passcode if their finger doesn't work?




If my finger doesn't work, what do I enter the passcode with?  My nose?


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## darjr (Sep 12, 2013)

Umbran said:


> If my finger doesn't work, what do I enter the passcode with?  My nose?



It does work.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 12, 2013)

darjr said:


> It does work.



Smell technology was once talk about and don't forget that joke phone, the lick screen 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eSuj-xLrONg


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## darjr (Sep 12, 2013)

I was on my bike in freezing temps and had an important call from work. I did not take my gloves off.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Sep 12, 2013)

Mallus said:


> The reason I'm not excited about the iPhone 5s --or any of the new smartphones, really-- is that my 32GB 4s is still a damn good mobile device. My only complaint is the battery doesn't last quite as long as it used to.
> 
> Maybe I'll upgrade next year... or, you know, just replace the battery.




I have a 4 that I see no need to upgrade, even though my wife has a 4S for direct comparison.  I personally think the 5-series screens have gotten too large.


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## Fast Learner (Sep 12, 2013)

Some key tinfoil-hat-ridiculing facts:

1. The fingerprint does not leave the device. It's not in the cloud, on some server somewhere, or anywhere but the phone.

2. It's completely optional. Feel free to enter a passcode and type in your Apple ID password each time they're needed instead.

3. You can add multiple fingerprints so that other people you trust can use it the same way. There's no personalization at this time, but there can be multiple people added.


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## Janx (Sep 12, 2013)

darjr said:


> I was on my bike in freezing temps and had an important call from work. I did not take my gloves off.




You shouldn't be taking your hands off the handle bars to answer a phone anyway.


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## Janx (Sep 12, 2013)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> I have a 4 that I see no need to upgrade, even though my wife has a 4S for direct comparison.  I personally think the 5-series screens have gotten too large.




You're going to do what you're going to do, but some reasons to reconsider:

No more iOS updates, you are stuck with iOS 6.

Eventually, no more access to iTunes/appstore (they lock you out completely at some point, my reset iPod Touch 1 is pretty much stuck with zero apps thanks to this)

battery capacity reduces by 1 minute per full recharge worth of recharging.  Basically, a 2 year old phone is likely to have a dramatically smaller capacity.

Lock out of Apps that require the latest iOS (apple forced app to certify to iOS 3, which shutdown a lot of older apps, and in reverse, blocks older devices from downloading new apps)

reduced resale value.  Not important if you're going to drive it until it dies, but useful if you do want to upgrade, as your old phone can defray the cost of the new phone.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Sep 12, 2013)

Janx said:


> You're going to do what you're going to do, but some reasons to reconsider:
> 
> No more iOS updates, you are stuck with iOS 6.




Not an issue -- I understand iOS 7 will be backward compatible to the 4, but even if it weren't, I still regret upgrading from iOS 5.



> Eventually, no more access to iTunes/appstore (they lock you out completely at some point, my reset iPod Touch 1 is pretty much stuck with zero apps thanks to this)




I'm sure that's a long way off.



> battery capacity reduces by 1 minute per full recharge worth of recharging.  Basically, a 2 year old phone is likely to have a dramatically smaller capacity.




I'm at three years on the phone without significant degradation, so it has a while to go yet.  But I expect that it will eventually drive me to a replacement.



> Lock out of Apps that require the latest iOS (apple forced app to certify to iOS 3, which shutdown a lot of older apps, and in reverse, blocks older devices from downloading new apps)
> 
> reduced resale value.  Not important if you're going to drive it until it dies, but useful if you do want to upgrade, as your old phone can defray the cost of the new phone.




Neither of these is a particularly compelling reason for an upgrade for me.  A faster phone with more storage in the 4-equivalent screen size would be an appealing reason eventually, but there don't seem to be compelling options in that direction.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 12, 2013)

Fast Learner said:


> Some key tinfoil-hat-ridiculing facts:
> 
> 1. The fingerprint does not leave the device. It's not in the cloud, on some server somewhere, or anywhere but the phone.
> 
> ...




 that is why I put smiles in my post  but that is how it starts, baby steps...five years from now...hey the data is there, lets use it for X.  Like that motion tech that pauses your videos if you are not watching it, now is going to be used to make sure employees watch training videos or focusing on their screens.


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## Morrus (Sep 12, 2013)

Hand of Evil said:


> ...five years from now...hey the data is there, lets use it for X.




How is Apple going to get the data out of that dedicated chip in five years?  They'd need to physically take your phone from you and break into it.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 12, 2013)

Morrus said:


> How is Apple going to get the data out of that dedicated chip in five years?  They'd need to physically take your phone from you and break into it.




 iPhone 6 maybe 7 - as a side tin foil hat note, NSA Built Back Door In All Windows Software by 1999 - odds are they are doing it with other companies and this was before 9/11!


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## Umbran (Sep 12, 2013)

Hand of Evil said:


> as a side tin foil hat note, NSA Built Back Door In All Windows Software by 1999 - odds are they are doing it with other companies and this was before 9/11!




I would prefer we refrain from such assertions on this site unless it is supported by reputable sources.  Otherwise, we're in the realm of semi-political fearmongering, rather than technical facts.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 12, 2013)

Umbran said:


> I would prefer we refrain from such assertions on this site unless it is supported by reputable sources.  Otherwise, we're in the realm of semi-political fearmongering, rather than technical facts.




Did say it was a tin foil hat side note  but it is the _NSAKEY -- Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY and Time story: Microsoft’s Response to NSA Backdoor Allegations: It’s Not True. It’s Also Complicated. We Can’t Explain It, but We Wish We Could.

http://techland.time.com/2013/07/12...xplain-it-but-we-wish-we-could/#ixzz2ehR09fuC.  

I apologize and will move on.


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## darjr (Sep 12, 2013)

Janx said:


> You shouldn't be taking your hands off the handle bars to answer a phone anyway.



Especially on those icy roads. Nuh uh.


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## Janx (Sep 12, 2013)

Umbran said:


> I would prefer we refrain from such assertions on this site unless it is supported by reputable sources.  Otherwise, we're in the realm of semi-political fearmongering, rather than technical facts.




Yay!

A) whatever happened to taking somebody at their word (even corporations)

B) deal with a lie when the lie is discovered and sue their pants off for false advertising, etc instead of assuming they're lying from the get go


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## Umbran (Sep 12, 2013)

Hand of Evil said:


> Did say it was a tin foil hat side note




Which is kind of like saying a smiley face icon clearly means you couldn't be snarky.  Disclaimers are not really protection.  



> but it is the _NSAKEY -- Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY




Which provides no proof whatsoever - only suspicion and allegations, based on _the name of a file_.  'Cause filenames tell you everything!  



> Time story: Microsoft’s Response to NSA Backdoor Allegations: It’s Not True. It’s Also Complicated. We Can’t Explain It, but We Wish We Could.




In which we find the fact that MS can be required, in an entirely legal manner, to pony up information about users, and the quote: "To be clear, Microsoft does not provide any government with blanket or direct access to SkyDrive, Outlook.com, Skype or any Microsoft product."  

So, not so much on the solid support of assertion that the NSA has direct backdoors to your data.  I hope that puts the thing to bed now.


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## Plane Sailing (Sep 12, 2013)

Morrus said:


> I'm long overdue an upgrade, so I guess I'll probably get one (locked into Apple's ecosystem by now by way of purchased music and apps). I found nothing exciting in that announcement though. Incremental speed upgrades are expected; camera improvements every year don't interest me that much; and the fingerprint sensor might be mildly useful but it's not interesting to me at all.
> 
> Is is at the point where the phone will not surprise us again? The new excitement will be glasses, watches, and other wearable tech? Or am I just jaded?




My contract is coming to an end on my 4s, and it is my intention to get a 5s and pass my 4s on to my wife (who will pass on her 3gs to our eldest child).

I've seen a lot of people agreeing with you in saying "where is the wow?" but really... we've got more this time than we had between 4 and 4s. At that point we had faster processor, better camera, higher resolution video and software improvements (siri?)

This time there is faster processor, better camera, higher framerate video, fingerprint sensor, motion co-processor and wider ranging software improvements in iOS7. I don't think there is any software which is 5s only this time, but this is above par considering the normal 's' designation year.

Regarding fingerprint unlocking - i like the idea. I use a passcode to prevent casual usage of my phone, not to deter the determined hacker; I see this as being in the same boat but more convenient for me; essentially the phone ends up passcode locked for anyone else but I just push the home button to use it (don't even need to use the slider according to the videos). 

Am I concerned about my fingerprints? Well, I've been fingerprinted every time I've been to the USA for the last four or five years or more... and I'm pretty sure that the whole point of that is that the information is networked and sent off to all kinds of people. So trusting Apple when they say this just stores it in a bit of the phone isn't a big step for me, you'll understand!

Cheers


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## Fast Learner (Sep 13, 2013)

Hand of Evil said:


> Like that motion tech that pauses your videos if you are not watching it, now is going to be used to make sure employees watch training videos or focusing on their screens.



Yep, already in use.


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## tomBitonti (Sep 23, 2013)

Thread is starting to decompose ... I'll create a new thread if necessary.

Some news about the fingerprint scanner:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...446-11e3-ad0d-b7c8d2a594b9_story.html?hpid=z4

Sorry about the link; you may hit a paywall.  A better link would be much appreciated.

Thx!

TomB


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