# Dragon #354



## Alzrius (Mar 16, 2007)

The latest issue finally arrived in my mailbox today! Here's the inside track:

*Editorial: The Great Modron Month*, by Erik Mona - Erik talks about humor in D&D as being part of the experience of just playing the game with friends and not taking things too seriously (hence the modrons), and not as joke articles.

*Scale Mail* - Letters this month include complaints about issues whose articles cover only a single subject, praise for issue #352, and thanks for the increased _Forgotten Realms_ coverage.

*First Watch* - I usually don't cover the First Watch section, but this month's talked about some especially cool stuff, such as Wolfgang Baur's adventure open design, A horror film titled _The Dead Matter_ by Midnight Syndicate, and EN Publishing's _War of the Burning Sky_ Campaign Saga.

*Core Beliefs: Heironeous*, by Sean K Reynolds - The newest Core Beliefs article covers the Archpaladin, talking about Heironeous, the role of clerics and paladins in his church, his relationship with other religions, the Knights of the Holy Shielding paladin order, holidays, myths, suggested prestige classes, relics of the faith, three new divine spells (all variants of existing spells), some NPCs in his service, and his planar ally. Sidebars cover the basics about Heironeous, his holy texts, the Shield Lands, the Heironean Code, aphorisms of his religion, and customized _summon monster_ lists.

*Return of the Modrons*, by Ken Marable - The modrons march again (figuratively speaking)! This article opens by recounting the recent history of the modrons - after what is now called the Rogue March, and Tenebrous vacated the Energy Pool, his lingering taint caused the unthinkable to occur: a secundus objected to the ascension of another besides itself to become the new Primus. It invoked an ancient clause to challenge for the right to ascend. It and another secundus took up a challenge to see who could slay the most chaotic beings in a set period of time. While the uncorrupted secundus cut through slaad on Limbo, the tainted one had his minions go slaughter gnomes on Bytopia. The remaining two secundi found in favor of the one who went to Limbo, as that one had personally undertaken the challenge, and had slain the enemies of Law. Refusing to accept this, since he had (by proxy) slain more chaotic creatures, the tainted secundus left Regulus in a fury, and took nearly a million modrons with him, settling in Acheron to plan to take the Energy Pool by force.

Crippled, the modrons were then subjected to a genocidal attack by formians, who saw this as an opportunity to try and wipe out their competitors. While the modrons were able to repulse the formians, they lost much territory before a truce was called. Moreover, the inevitables, emotionlessly seeking more materials for themselves to be constructed from, found the modrons easy to push back for a time, gaining greater prominence as they did so.

After this spellbinding history, the article then covers the personality and castes of the modrons, paying special attention to not only rogue modrons, but also exiled ones; exiled modrons are those who are declared so, and have their link to the Energy Pool broken before being cast out (becoming living constructs). The five base modrons are then discussed, each as a separate caste. Modron physiology, advancement, and communication is covered (there are a few exceptions to modrons only being able to communicate with their own caste, as well as those of the next higher and lower ones). After this, PC modrons are covered, both as rogues (who use the normal modron statistics, but with a different alignment) and exiles (who have different PC stats due to the exiling process). Stats are given next for the base five types of modrons, along with three modron-based adventure seeds. Finally, a quick modron ecology is given, along with ECL's for the playable modrons types, as well as where they place on _summoning_ spells, and even a note on having a monodrone familiar! Sidebars cover the living construct subtype, Tony DiTerlizzi's modron memories, and results about modrons on a Knowledge (the planes) check.

*Ancient PCs*, by Hal Maclean - This article covers playing an Elder, a member of a race that has lived far, far longer than his kind normally does (the article uses the default of having lived at least a thousand years). It opens with methods for how a creature could get to be that old, from methods of having accidentally lived that long, to playing a creature that is naturally ageless. A new background feat (Wedded to History) is given in a sidebar for Elder characters, along with seven different Elder backgrounds that colorfully denote your "style" of Elder (last servant of a forgotten god, a prophecied character, a throwback, etc.). Seven new feats that build on those are then given also. Sidebars cover how to play an ancient character with comparatively low class levels (since most PCs gain all of their levels in a short amount of game time), the new Endless special quality, which lets you live until yoru killed, and a new spell _kissed by the ages_, that lets you bestow that quality on another.

*The Ecology of the Kopru*, by Tito Leati - The kopru are covered in grim detail, including their history, physiology, psychology and society, ruins, the Cult of Demogorgon, and an advanced kopru is given. Sidebars cover what you know about them on a Knowledge (nature) check, their use of skull deformation on certain newborn kopru to encourage strong physical and mental growth, their use of special clam shells as a material component to augment spells, kopru with the amphibious special quality, their prophecies, and a very interesting table depicting their number system.

*Savage Tidings: Heart of Darkness*, by Greg Vaughan - The latest Savage Tidings presents the Totemic Demonslayer prestige class, who arose from the Olmans of the Isle of Dread who needed to push back against the corruption on their Isle. The prestige class itself is covered, along with playing one, their combat roles, lore about totemic demonslayers, an example NPC (Jakara, from the Savage Tide), and what totemic demonslayers know about the Isle of Dread's central plateau.

*Volo's Guide: Cormanthor: War Amidst the Trees*, by Eric Boyd, with special introduction by Ed Greenwood - This installment of Volo's Guide gives a timeline of Cormanthor over the last two-and-a-half years, and notes that it has spoilers on a fairly diverse range of novels and game products because of that. It then briefly covers some of the factions fighting in and around Cormanthor.

*Dragonmarks: Boromar Clan*, by Nicolas Logue - The newest _Eberron_ article covers the organized crime family of Sharn that is the Boromar clan. A notation of various family members is given, along with how the family operates, before covering one of their best-kept secret bodyguards. Their affiliation information is then given.

*Sage Advice*, by Andy Collins - This month, the Sage covers questions about the _Tome of Battle_.

*Class Acts*

*Adventurer: Elements of Surprise*, by Jasin Zujovi - Three replacement class features are given for ninjas, based around the elements of fire, water, an earth (as standard ninjas are like elemental air).

*Arcane: Power Word, Spell*, by Eric Jansing - Class spell lists are given for the sorcerer/wizard and wu jen of all the spells in the PHB and _Spell Compendium_ that require no somatic components.

*Divine: Aztec Mythos II*, The second installment of this series covers the gods Chalchihuitlicue and Tlaloc, noting their portfolio, domains, favored weapon, cleric training, quests, prayers, temples, rites, and herald and allies. Sidebars also note the previous article in the series, and alterations to clerical alignment restrictions that should be made when they're clerics of the Aztec gods.

*Warrior: Barbarian Guide*, by Amber E. Scott - This article summarizes the basic powers and class features of barbarians, with tables for various skill uses and increasing class features. A sidebar covers sundering magic items.

*Comics* - Nodwick, by Aaron Williams; Dork Tower, by John Kovalic; and The Order of the Stick, by Rich Burlew.



> *NEXT MONTH IN DRAGON #355
> 
> CREATURE CATALOG VI*
> _by Kevin Baase, C. Wesley Clough, et al._
> ...


----------



## TroyXavier (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm going to have to check on my subscription as I haven't received the last two issues.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm very geeked about the modron article. I'm severely tempted to make a modron PC.

Heck, the modrons even made the cover.


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Mar 16, 2007)

I didn't get last month's, either.  Fortunately, I managed to find it in a book store.  This problem got so bad for a couple of years that Dragon's customer service actually told me they would no longer replace my non-delivered issues and that it was my problem, and not theirs.  So, I just hope to find them on the shelf if they don't show up at my house.

Sorry, thread hi-jack over.


----------



## kenobi65 (Mar 16, 2007)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> I didn't get last month's, either.  Fortunately, I managed to find it in a book store.




Ditto, and I have *never* had problems with it before.    Time to go bug Paizo.

Looking forward to #354, as I play a paladin of Heironeous in Living Greyhawk.


----------



## Razz (Mar 16, 2007)

Darn, only 5 modrons. Was hoping they'd squeeze in that 6th, but I guess they counted the PC Race as one. Five down and nine to go. That's a lot. Better than starting at 0, of course   

So this is it folks. This Modron article will make or break them. Let's hope the staff at Dragon can soon provide us the stats for the rest of the hierarchy, that being only 9 more to go.

So I assume we have *Monodrone*, *Duodrone*, *Tridrone*, *Quadrone*, and *Pentadrone*. That leaves us:

*Decaton
Nonaton
Octon
Septon
Hexton
Quinton
Quarton
Tertian
Secundus*

Well we have the stats of a Tertian from *Dungeon #144*, so I guess technically there's only 8 more modrons to go and convert. It'd make a really good Dragon #354 Web Enhancement. Cause, personally, it'd really suck to have to wait a few months for an issue detailing either just 5 more (leaving 4 left) unless of course the article knocks out all 9 at once in which case I am willing to wait on.


----------



## Shade (Mar 16, 2007)

I like that modron backstory.


----------



## Cam Banks (Mar 16, 2007)

To heck with modrons. That Elder article sounds like twelve kinds of awesome.

Cheers,
Cam


----------



## kenmarable (Mar 17, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> So I assume we have *Monodrone*, *Duodrone*, *Tridrone*, *Quadrone*, and *Pentadrone*.




Now that subscribers are getting it, I'll talk (although I'll certainly talk more once I have my copy... any... day... now....). Yes, it is the base 5 modrons, with the Exiled modron counting as the 6th I suppose. It's written up as racial traits rather than as a monster, but it's close enough. 

I know the terminology of "Exiled modron" is new, but it's something similar to what we did at Planewalker with the "Modron Outcast". Basically, saying they go through a formal process of expulsion, and in that they transform into what 2e called a "rogue modron". Even in the Planewalker's Handbook in 2e, they said that these modrons were changed by leaving the hierarchy, so I ran with it. However, there's still plenty of material around saying that any modron that takes off (approved or not) is termed "rogue". 

So with all those terms being overlapped, I just settled on:
 -- True Modron (or just Modron) - standard fellas still part of the hierarchy
 -- Rogue Modron - same stats as true modrons, but with a little to a lot of non-Lawful Neutralness in them. These are the ones hunted down and destroyed as quickly as possible.
 -- Exiled Modron - A version more playable as a PC, and close to what 2e had as a playable race. These are the ones who are formally expelled.



			
				Razz said:
			
		

> Cause, personally, it'd really suck to have to wait a few months for an issue detailing either just 5 more (leaving 4 left) unless of course the article knocks out all 9 at once in which case I am willing to wait on.




Unfortunately, the stats for 5 low HD modrons took up a fair chunk of article. Statting out 9 more even higher HD ones is probably more than the magazine can bear at once (though I would gladly be proved wrong). I'm thinking a web enhancement might be the most likely, but who knows. I'd love to see them whether I work on them or not. Heck, my dream would be a Constructs book from WotC ("The Constructicon"  ).


----------



## jasin (Mar 17, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *Adventurer: Elements of Surprise*, by Jason Zujovi



Aw, man! Did they really manage to misspell _both_? It should be Jasin Zujovic, dammit!


----------



## Jason Bulmahn (Mar 17, 2007)

jasin said:
			
		

> Aw, man! Did they really manage to misspell _both_? It should be Jasin Zujovic, dammit!




Hmm.. well, I have good news and bad news. On the upside, we did spell "Jasin" right. On the downside, we did apparently leave the C off. I will see to it that we post a correction.

My humblest apologies. I certainly know what it is like to have my name mispelled.

Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon


----------



## MKMcArtor (Mar 17, 2007)

jasin said:
			
		

> Aw, man! Did they really manage to misspell _both_? It should be Jasin Zujovic, dammit!




Sadly, our American MSWord programs cannot read the special character that forms the last letter of your given name. In the .doc you sent me it appears as Zujovi_. I did not realize at the time that the _ represented a missing character, although in retrospect I probably should have (as I have seen that particular Word-ism before). I apologize for the error; we shall not make the same mistake again in the future. Like Jason Bhuhlhmhahnh said, I completely understand the frustration of having your family name misspelled.  :\


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 17, 2007)

Cam Banks said:
			
		

> To heck with modrons. That Elder article sounds like twelve kinds of awesome.



Absolutely!


----------



## Alzrius (Mar 17, 2007)

jasin said:
			
		

> Aw, man! Did they really manage to misspell _both_? It should be Jasin Zujovic, dammit!




Whoops, my bad there on the first name. I've gone back and changed it in my initial post. But as Mike and Jason (the real one) said, that's the last name that's printed.



			
				Cam Banks said:
			
		

> That Elder article sounds like twelve kinds of awesome.




It really, really is. My next character is going to have the Endless special quality and the Wedded to History and Lazarus-Borne feats (the latter from More 101 Feats by Ronin Arts) and be played as a sort of limited-immortal; he won't die unless he's killed, and when so killed he'll (likely) spontaneously resurrect himself in a few days.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 17, 2007)

kenmarable said:
			
		

> I'm thinking a web enhancement might be the most likely, but who knows. I'd love to see them whether I work on them or not. Heck, my dream would be a Constructs book from WotC ("The Constructicon"  ).




Of course... should you wish to write up the rest of them even if Dragon doesn't wish to publish them or have them as a web enhancement - I suspect you know who'd be more than willing to find a kip for them...


----------



## Razz (Mar 17, 2007)

kenmarable said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, the stats for 5 low HD modrons took up a fair chunk of article. Statting out 9 more even higher HD ones is probably more than the magazine can bear at once (though I would gladly be proved wrong). I'm thinking a web enhancement might be the most likely, but who knows. I'd love to see them whether I work on them or not. Heck, my dream would be a Constructs book from WotC ("The Constructicon"  ).




Personally, this is what I am hoping for. A *Dragon #354 Web Enhancement*. It's the smartest route to go as opposed to both using up magazine space and keeping the fans waiting months for something more.

It's a longshot, cause I know how busy the staff is, but it's a hope I am willing to keep. If worse comes to worse I plan on studying the conversions and converting the higher modrons using the guidelines with the lower ones.


----------



## Shemeska (Mar 17, 2007)

kenmarable said:
			
		

> Now that subscribers are getting it, I'll talk (although I'll certainly talk more once I have my copy... any... day... now....).




I got my copy today and I posted my first impressions of the article over on Planewalker. You did a really nice job Ken


----------



## hong (Mar 17, 2007)

jasin said:
			
		

> Aw, man! Did they really manage to misspell _both_? It should be Jasin Zujovic, dammit!



 This place seriously needs a :laughat: smiley.


Hong "is impossible to misspell" Ooi


----------



## hong (Mar 17, 2007)

Also as I said to Jasin before, his ninja article really makes me want to run something like Ninja Scroll. Kill the air ninja, then the fire ninja, then the water ninja, then the earth ninja. And finally, the mysterious VOID NINJA!


----------



## RangerWickett (Mar 17, 2007)

Ken, _you_ wrote the modron article?

Okay. *makes note not to screw around with Ken's adventure, and let the man have his own free reign*

I need to see this issue so I can know what Russ managed to sneak in about War of the Burning Sky.


----------



## jasin (Mar 17, 2007)

> I will see to it that we post a correction.



Thanks.



> My humblest apologies. I certainly know what it is like to have my name mispelled.



Heh. Yes, I've heard stories about that.


----------



## jasin (Mar 17, 2007)

MKMcArtor said:
			
		

> Sadly, our American MSWord programs cannot read the special character that forms the last letter of your given name. In the .doc you sent me it appears as Zujovi_. I did not realize at the time that the _ represented a missing character, although in retrospect I probably should have (as I have seen that particular Word-ism before).



I figured as much once I checked the .doc file.



> I apologize for the error; we shall not make the same mistake again in the future. Like Jason Bhuhlhmhahnh, said, I completely understand the frustration of having your family name misspelled.  :\



I'm sure you do, Mr. McArthur. 

BTW, it's nice to see you folks keeping on top of things like this.


----------



## Dirigible (Mar 17, 2007)

> Ancient PCs




_Never_ before has a Dragon preview actually done what it was supposed to: made me want to go out and buy the issue in question. This one does.

The fact that there are also modrons is merely gravy on the icing.


----------



## FnordBear (Mar 17, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> CREATURE CATALOG VI
> by Kevin Baase, C. Wesley Clough, et al.
> You can never have too many monsters! The sixth entry into our long-running series of bestiaries presents eleven new threats and old favorites, including the *cannon golem*, the obilviax, the rot giant, the scarecrow, and more





Ok, either we are getting a golem made of holy scripture OR we are getting a golem made of canons. Either way on name alone this will wind up in my campaign setting.


----------



## DMH (Mar 17, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *Ancient PCs*, by Hal Maclean




It is going to be interesting to see how this could tie into Villains, Like Fine Wine from 220 (or is that 221?)


----------



## Particle_Man (Mar 17, 2007)

I feel like I could build an entire campaign around the various articles detailed in this issue.  I will definitely be on the look out for it once it hits Canadian FLGSs.

So are the modrons that followed the "Rogue" Secundus also Rogue Modrons now?  Are they LN(E) or still "pure" LN?


----------



## TroyXavier (Mar 17, 2007)

Well I did get this issue and it's a lot of fun.  Need to find out what happened to 352 and 353


----------



## Razz (Mar 17, 2007)

Yes, I have to say to *Ken Marable*, beautiful job on the new events with the Modrons. Very wonderful way of spicing up the multiverse. I can't wait to unleash modron drama on my PCs!


----------



## Vocenoctum (Mar 17, 2007)

TroyXavier said:
			
		

> Well I did get this issue and it's a lot of fun.  Need to find out what happened to 352 and 353



I've never had problems with getting issues, but didn't get 353. Haven't gotten 354 yet though, nor the latest Dungeon. Paizo was very fast in sending a replacement 353.


----------



## Shazman (Mar 17, 2007)

Could anyone who has this issue give me some info on the elemental ninja crunch in the class acts?  Please and thank you!


----------



## kenmarable (Mar 17, 2007)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> So are the modrons that followed the "Rogue" Secundus also Rogue Modrons now?  Are they LN(E) or still "pure" LN?



I don't specifically address their alignment, mostly because there's a whole lot of them. But I would say that yes, they are rogue since they no longer follow Primus' orders. However, there are so many of them that they can't just be hunted down and destroyed like the ordinary stray rogue modron. It remains to be seen how the heirarchy handles the situation. 

With their alignment, I'd say some are definitely LE, but most are probably still LN - at least for now. With the way modron orders pass through the chain of command, all the lower ranks know is that the rank above them ordered them to leave. They have little to no clue about the secundi and their fight over succession. I'm not sure if it made print (or made print intact), but I did have a feat that I would see many of the Dark Modrons having. Part of that feat gave them the Evil subtype. But over time, I can see an interesting struggle even among those who left between those who are innately still lawful, and those who have been thoroughly tainted. Not to mention that any rogue that is destroyed returns to the energy pool. So without a new source of energy, the dark modrons are destined to decrease in number. Some fun plot potentials there.



			
				RangerWickett said:
			
		

> Okay. *makes note not to screw around with Ken's adventure, and let the man have his own free reign*



Yeah, that's the "more recent work in Dragon that I can't talk about" I mentioned when I applied to write for Burning Sky. But believe me, just because I wrote the modron article doesn't mean I no longer need a good editor!! 



			
				Razz said:
			
		

> Yes, I have to say to *Ken Marable*, beautiful job on the new events with the Modrons. Very wonderful way of spicing up the multiverse. I can't wait to unleash modron drama on my PCs!



Thanks. My hope was to do more than just "here's their stats for 3.5". I also tried to give the duodrones and tridrones in particular some interesting features to spice them up in particular. 

I'm sure some people will find it utterly absurd, and others (hopefully) find it pretty cool, but much of the new history I provided was inspired by the phrase "dark modrons" that popped into my head years ago. If you do use them, I'd be interested in hearing how the campaign goes.



			
				Cam Banks said:
			
		

> To heck with modrons. That Elder article sounds like twelve kinds of awesome.



Agreed! I have too many (N)PC ideas already, but that concept alone just drips with really fun potential. I'm even more eager to get my copy now!



			
				Dirigible said:
			
		

> The fact that there are also modrons is merely gravy on the icing.



Um... yum??


----------



## Jer (Mar 17, 2007)

Ken -



			
				kenmarable said:
			
		

> So with all those terms being overlapped, I just settled on:
> -- True Modron (or just Modron) - standard fellas still part of the hierarchy
> -- Rogue Modron - same stats as true modrons, but with a little to a lot of non-Lawful Neutralness in them. These are the ones hunted down and destroyed as quickly as possible.
> -- Exiled Modron - A version more playable as a PC, and close to what 2e had as a playable race. These are the ones who are formally expelled.




Was it your intention that the modrons that marched off to Acheron with the rogue secundus be considered Rogue Modrons too, or would you consider them regular modrons "just following orders".  I know how I am going to run with it, but I'm curious about your intent.  (I love the backstory on this, by the way, and since my players are just getting to the level where they're ready to do some Outer Planar exploration, a massive Modron War is going to be incorporated into my campaign soon).

I loved the article as a whole - I hope that Dragon gives us a sequel with some of the rest of the modrons too.  And I hope we don't have to wait until next April to get it


----------



## Shemeska (Mar 17, 2007)

kenmarable said:
			
		

> II'm sure some people will find it utterly absurd, and others (hopefully) find it pretty cool, but much of the new history I provided was inspired by the phrase "dark modrons" that popped into my head years ago. If you do use them, I'd be interested in hearing how the campaign goes.




I remember you talking about them a few years ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





And I used your "dark modrons" as well actually. Way back before Dragon 354 they were one of the major inspirations I had for a page or so long story snippet, Twisted Logic and Rogue Modrons, that along with a general loathing I had for formians at the time. I did that back in '04, and it was done on the fly as a forum post, so pardon its quality.


----------



## Razz (Mar 17, 2007)

Jer said:
			
		

> I loved the article as a whole - I hope that Dragon gives us a sequel with some of the rest of the modrons too.  And I hope we don't have to wait until next April to get it




That's too scary to think about.


----------



## Ripzerai (Mar 18, 2007)

As interesting as it is to explore how the modrons were corrupted by Orcus, I think it's just as interesting to think about how Orcus was corrupted by the modrons.


----------



## PrinceXaxor (Mar 18, 2007)

There can be only one!

(It took that long?)

Guess I'll have to get this from Paizo directly.


----------



## Alzrius (Mar 18, 2007)

FnordBear said:
			
		

> Ok, either we are getting a golem made of holy scripture OR we are getting a golem made of canons.




There's a difference between a cannon and canon.


----------



## jasin (Mar 18, 2007)

Shazman said:
			
		

> Could anyone who has this issue give me some info on the elemental ninja crunch in the class acts?  Please and thank you!



I could... 

The Complete Adventurer ninja is a Wind ninja: he can become invisible and later insubstantial, like the wind. The article offers alternatives to ghost step for Fire, Earth and Water ninjas, flavoured by the appropriate element, but still intented to help the ninja get the drop on their opponents in order to use sudden strike.


----------



## Shazman (Mar 18, 2007)

jasin said:
			
		

> I could...
> 
> The Complete Adventurer ninja is a Wind ninja: he can become invisible and later insubstantial, like the wind. The article offers alternatives to ghost step for Fire, Earth and Water ninjas, flavoured by the appropriate element, but still intented to help the ninja get the drop on their opponents in order to use sudden strike.




That's interesting.  Could you give me more specifics on how each of these elements change their ki power abilities?  I hate to be a bother, but it will probably be a while before I get this issue, and I'm chomping at the bit for more ninja info. Thanks!


----------



## Razz (Mar 18, 2007)

Question about the modrons in the article. Are they now _Constructs_ or _Living Constructs_? I am assuming Constructs because of the way the Tertian was revamped in *Dungeon #144*, though I would have to say it'd make more sense to have had them as Living Constructs.


----------



## Sammael (Mar 18, 2007)

They should be outsiders, not constructs.


----------



## Razz (Mar 18, 2007)

Sammael said:
			
		

> They should be outsiders, not constructs.




But they're also constructs...

And they're also living...

It's hard to really pinpoint what creature type the Modrons should be. Currently, with the Tertian modron, it's type is Construct (Extraplanar, Lawful). 

This makes sense except for these problems: 

1) Lack of weapon proficiencies
2) Medium base attack as opposed to High
3) Good Fortitude saves only instead of all good saves
4) 2 skill points/HD as opposed to 8 

So I can see the dilemma. Problems 2 and 4 were offset thanks to a huge increase in HD with the Tertian and a huge increase in its Intelligence score. The increase in Intelligence actually suits them perfectly since they are a highly methodical and logical extraplanar race. It barely counters Problem 3, however, and doesn't solve Problem 1 but that's only a minor inconvenience.

The easiest route would've been Outsider type with construct traits. Dunno why it didn't go that route.


----------



## Shroomy (Mar 18, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> But they're also constructs...
> 
> And they're also living...
> 
> ...




I think that the laundry list of immunities that a construct possesses kind of mitigates Problem 3.  Add in SR, DR, and additional resistances for the more powerful versions (I don't have _Dungeon_ 144 in front of me, so I'm not sure what the Tertian actually has)....


----------



## Pants (Mar 18, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> It's hard to really pinpoint what creature type the Modrons should be. Currently, with the Tertian modron, it's type is Construct (Extraplanar, Lawful).



No, it's really easy.

They embody the concept of utter Law, thus they should be outsiders. Give 'em a bunch of construct-like immunities if you need that, but they should be outsiders.


----------



## Particle_Man (Mar 18, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> Question about the modrons in the article. Are they now _Constructs_ or _Living Constructs_? I am assuming Constructs because of the way the Tertian was revamped in *Dungeon #144*, though I would have to say it'd make more sense to have had them as Living Constructs.




I am not sure if Dungeon 144 is a reliable guide, as I heard that the Tertian was put in at the last minute to replace an inevitable.  That being the case, the "construct" stuff may be a hold-over, and thus a typo.


----------



## qstor (Mar 18, 2007)

I hope WOTC adds the modrons to an upcoming Monster Manual 

Whats in the preview for the issue after this one?

I haven't gotten mine yet. My last one was very late. I got it from customer Service last week.

Mike


----------



## Shemeska (Mar 19, 2007)

Pants said:
			
		

> They embody the concept of utter Law, thus they should be outsiders. Give 'em a bunch of construct-like immunities if you need that, but they should be outsiders.




Bingo. That's my perspective on them as well. 

The only rationalization I might suggest for them being made constructs in Dragon and Dungeon is that what is described as their animating force or energy from the Energy Pool of Regulus that returns there when a modron is killed is what is actually the outsider. The modrons themselves are the immaterial animating force, an outsider, and the corporeal shell of a construct that it manipulates to interact with the world.

That might be one way to look at it (though again I still greatly prefer them being outsiders with some or all the traits of constructs).


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer (Mar 19, 2007)

*Shield Lands, Knights of Holy Shielding, uh oh.*

Does the article on Heironeous at least acknowledge that there was a prior article on the Knights of Holy Shielding in Dungeon, August 2004, with a PrC for the KoHS?


----------



## Pants (Mar 19, 2007)

qstor said:
			
		

> I hope WOTC adds the modrons to an upcoming Monster Manual



Prolly too late for that  :\


----------



## Mouseferatu (Mar 19, 2007)

Well, put me down as a "construct" vote.

No matter how hard I try, I _cannot_ get my mind around living polygons as actual creatures, the alignments of the planes notwithstanding. But as constructs _created_ by some greater force to embody law, that way I can at least _vaguely_ accept them.

But then, I much prefer inevitables, myself.


----------



## Alzrius (Mar 19, 2007)

To be clear, the modrons in the article are Constructs. Exiled modrons are severed from the Energy Pool, and become Living Constructs.

I don't believe the Heironeous article mentions the previous issue with the PrC.


----------



## Razz (Mar 19, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Well, put me down as a "construct" vote.
> 
> No matter how hard I try, I _cannot_ get my mind around living polygons as actual creatures, the alignments of the planes notwithstanding. But as constructs _created_ by some greater force to embody law, that way I can at least _vaguely_ accept them.
> 
> But then, I much prefer inevitables, myself.




Like the first four, maybe five, are polygon looking. I've re-read their descriptions and I'm pretty sure this "polygon-walking-talking-lawful-dice-extraplanar creature" is a horrible stereotype based off those few types in the lower hierarchy that grew completely out of proportion as time went on. They look less polygonal as the hierarch rises and duodrone, tridrone, quadrone, and pentradrone (monodrones are spherical) are the only ones whose descriptions I have read that look this way. The rest appear more alien-like in structure (which is perfect considering extraplanar creatures are the "aliens" of D&D)

And what better creature to represent law than polygon-shaped creatures anyway? Unless you happen to really like ants.


----------



## Razz (Mar 19, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> To be clear, the modrons in the article are Constructs. Exiled modrons are severed from the Energy Pool, and become Living Constructs.




That's odd. Wouldn't it be the other way around? Does it explain why modrons are less like living creatures when connected to the energy pool and why exiled modrons are more like living creatures when disconnected?


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer (Mar 19, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> I don't believe the Heironeous article mentions the previous issue with the PrC.



That's a bit disappointing, but I guess I'll just have to see the issue myself to see if this article steps all over that prior article. Which would be upsetting for many reasons. It would be a shame to see one article in a magazine editted by Erik Mona stepped on in another magazine published by Erik Mona just a bare few years apart. *holding breath*


----------



## dargoth3 (Mar 19, 2007)

How many pages is the Volo's Guide: Cormanthor: War Amidst the Trees article?


----------



## hong (Mar 19, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> Like the first four, maybe five, are polygon looking. I've re-read their descriptions and I'm pretty sure this "polygon-walking-talking-lawful-dice-extraplanar creature" is a horrible stereotype based off those few types in the lower hierarchy that grew completely out of proportion as time went on. They look less polygonal as the hierarch rises and duodrone, tridrone, quadrone, and pentradrone (monodrones are spherical) are the only ones whose descriptions I have read that look this way. The rest appear more alien-like in structure (which is perfect considering extraplanar creatures are the "aliens" of D&D)
> 
> And what better creature to represent law than polygon-shaped creatures anyway? Unless you happen to really like ants.


----------



## Shemeska (Mar 19, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> Unless you happen to really like ants.




I prefer my LN exemplars to be you know, actually native to Mechanus, not refugees from a slipped layer of Arcadia.  Or robotic aasimon-lite like the Inevitables. 

But that said, the article had a very nice bit about the Modrons and the Inevitables coming to an agreement, which does not bode well for the ants.


----------



## Shazman (Mar 19, 2007)

Enough about modrons, already!  Could someone please give me more detailed info on the variant ninja abilities?  It would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## hong (Mar 19, 2007)

Shazman said:
			
		

> Enoug about modrons,already!  Could someone please give me more detailed enough on the variant ninja abilities? It would be greatly appreciated.




This is from the doc that Jasin sent me. Who knows what Bulmarhn, McArtur and their cronies have done with it though?

Fire ninja:

2nd level - Replace ghost step with blinding flash (as swift action create flash of light that blinds creatures within 20' for 1 rd, Ref negates)

8th level - As FRA make sudden strike on blinded creature; if hits, Fort save or be blinded an extra round

10th level - Remain wreathed in flames after blinding flash, enemies take damage on striking you, your weapons are flaming burst


Water ninja:

2nd level - Replace ghost step with deceptive mist (as swift action create solid fog in 20' radius cylinder, you are unaffected)

8th level - Solid fog does 2d6 acid damage/rd

10th level - Fog becomes mind fog (-10 penalty on Will saves and Wis checks, Will negates)


Earth ninja:

2nd level - Replace ghost step with one with the earth (as swift action gain burrow speed equal to land speed, you can pinpoint creatures within 30' while burrowing, you must remain in contact with the surface)

8th level - Can burrow without remaining in contact with surface

10th level - DR 10/adamantine for 1d4 rds after emerging from burrowing


----------



## hong (Mar 19, 2007)

hong said:
			
		

>



 You know, the image of modrons as floating, glowing regular, uniform and stellated polyhedra appeals to me much more than having them with limbs and eyes sticking out. Those are just irretrievably cartoony.

More stellated goodness!


----------



## Shazman (Mar 19, 2007)

Thank you very much hong.  The fire one appeals to me, the other two seem a bit too wonky for my tastes.  It definitely adds some flavor to the ninja, though


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 19, 2007)

dargoth3 said:
			
		

> How many pages is the Volo's Guide: Cormanthor: War Amidst the Trees article?




I believe it was 5. It had a LOT of info covering War of the Spider Queen (module), and the Scourging of Shadow module, War of the Spider Queen novel series, Final Gate Series and Blackstaff as well as sources.

Hong and Shazam,

The only change I recall in the article was for the water ninja. The fog can add contact or inhaled poisons, not acid.  Otherwise, Hong is right.


----------



## jasin (Mar 19, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> The only change I recall in the article was for the water ninja. The fog can add contact or inhaled poisons, not acid.  Otherwise, Hong is right.



FWIW, I like that change.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Mar 19, 2007)

hong said:
			
		

>




Great. Now all I can think of is Bit, from the movie Tron.

"Yes."


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer (Mar 19, 2007)

hong said:
			
		

> You know, the image of modrons as floating, glowing regular, uniform and stellated polyhedra appeals to me much more than having them with limbs and eyes sticking out. Those are just irretrievably cartoony.



I think I'm starting to prefer them as well. Much more the embodiment of lawfulness than with gangly-drawn appendages.


----------



## Kaodi (Mar 20, 2007)

The article on the Elder is enough to make me want to go out and expend some of my almost depleted resources on this issue, though for me it is not because I want to build a recreation of Highlander. That stuff on the Elder looks like it would work great with the Sakah in Eberron.


----------



## hong (Mar 20, 2007)

Eric Anondson said:
			
		

> I think I'm starting to prefer them as well. Much more the embodiment of lawfulness than with gangly-drawn appendages.



 Indeed. See, this is the sort of thing I can imagine modrons would be down with:

248-dimensional maths puzzle solved


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 20, 2007)

Putting aside my feelings for the art (I'm not sure I like either visual version of the modrons), that was a great article. Really, really well written and great stories. It inspired me to use them in some way (if I ever get back to running a real campaign).

I also enjoyed the Kopru article - though I really don't like that style of art. I vastly prefer the more "realistic" art, which is 1 reason I probably won't be buying the compilation of ecology articles.

I haven't read much of the rest yet, as I just got the issue last night, but it appears to be another high quality production.


----------



## Dirigible (Mar 21, 2007)

>




Oh god... _I can see through time!_


----------



## hong (Mar 21, 2007)

Dirigible said:
			
		

> Oh god... _I can see through time!_



 And wouldn't it be cool if modron fortresses had the topology of tesseracts?


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Mar 21, 2007)

Just got mine today.  Great issue, overall, with lots of usable stuff nd some great writing.  I thought the Heironius article, the Modrons, Elders, Ecology of the Kopru, Savage Tidings, and Volo's articles were great.

I have to say, though, that the Barbarian Class Acts was downright stupid.  We need a two-page article to essentially repeat the class description from the PHB?


----------



## Shroomy (Mar 21, 2007)

I picked up my copy at Borders today, but I only got a chance to read the Core Beliefs and Modron article.  As expected, the modron article rocked hard and the Core Beliefs was solid, though hardly my favorite of the series (I find Heironeous kind of dull).


----------



## Arnwyn (Mar 21, 2007)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> I have to say, though, that the Barbarian Class Acts was downright stupid.  We need a two-page article to essentially repeat the class description from the PHB?



It's not the first time that "Amber Scott" has written a boring nothing-new summary in the Class Acts section.


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 21, 2007)

I like the class acts articles that summarize that information. Ideally, WotC will have something nice and summarized like that in future editions. Fluff of classes in one part, details of the class in the next, summary of the game information in another. Is it the ideal use of prime magazine space, I'm not sure, but I do find them useful for giving to the relatively new players I'm currently playing with.


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer (Mar 21, 2007)

*I suppose*

On *Core Beliefs:Heironeous*. These are mostly nit picks.

I am glad they gave some attention to the Shield Lands. Unfortunately it appears that this article was written in ignorance of the Knights of Holy Shielding article from two and a half years ago in Dungeon magazine.

The Shield Lands references are fine. Whew! 

On the Knights of Holy Shielding, ah well. We see a return to calling it Knights of *the* Holy Shielding. Grr.

I'm surprised they got away with naming the 3rd level Heironean cleric spell _bolt of glory_ in the article as there is already a 6th level cleric spell of the same name from Complete Divine/Spell Compendium. I know it is an attempt at redoing the old AD&D specialist priest spell of Heironeous, but _so was the Complete Divine/Spell Compendium spell of the same name_!

I would have liked to see the Heironeous paladin feat, Indomitable Loyalty, from Dungeon 104 get reprinted.


----------



## BOZ (Mar 25, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> *NEXT MONTH IN DRAGON #355
> 
> CREATURE CATALOG VI*
> ...the obilviax ... the scarecrow, and more!




woohoo!    memory moss and scarecrow!


----------



## BOZ (Mar 25, 2007)

hong said:
			
		

> And wouldn't it be cool if modron fortresses had the topology of tesseracts?




aaaaiiiieeeee *head explodiates*


----------



## Mouseferatu (Mar 25, 2007)

Dang it, I _still_ haven't gotten mine!! 

Think it's about time to contact Paizo, or is it still early enough that I ought to give it a bit longer? I've lost track of when it was technically _supposed_ to be here; I just know it was a while ago.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 25, 2007)

Boz,

Yeah figured you be happy with that. Plus the Canon golem is probably going to be on the cover. 

Ari,

Yes I'd complain to Erik or James about it. They deserve to know that you're contribution wasn't shown. 

Eric,

Yeah well they've already done most of the good ones anyway.


----------



## Glyfair (Mar 25, 2007)

Eric Anondson said:
			
		

> On *Core Beliefs:Heironeous*. These are mostly nit picks.




I know Bruce Cordell has gone on record as being impressed that they referenced a bit from his _Bastion of Faith_ sourcebook in the article.


----------



## BOZ (Mar 25, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Boz,
> 
> Yeah figured you be happy with that. Plus the Canon golem is probably going to be on the cover.




i'm never not happy to see my name in print.  

well, unless i got arrested or something unfortunate like that.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 25, 2007)

Boz,

Yeah well I prefer to wait and see when I get the confirmation about being in print.


----------



## Alzrius (Mar 25, 2007)

It's the cannon golem, people.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Mar 25, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> It's the cannon golem, people.




Right. You do that again, little kitty, and I may rub your nose in the pun.   

Hrm.

I've been interested in the Modron's for a while now. Is it worth getting this issue just for the info on them?


----------



## Razz (Mar 25, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Right. You do that again, little kitty, and I may rub your nose in the pun.
> 
> Hrm.
> 
> I've been interested in the Modron's for a while now. Is it worth getting this issue just for the info on them?




Yes, it definitely is. I'm sure you'll enjoy the article. And make it known to Paizo if you do and we'll see a future article in Dragon Magazine detailing the Hierarch Modrons


----------



## Razz (Mar 25, 2007)

If you guys look on the page in the magazine where they talk about the previews for Dragon #355, you'll see a picture of the cannon golem right next to the text. It's definitely a golem that will shoot cannon balls, not canon text


----------



## Ripzerai (Mar 25, 2007)

I liked the art in the modron article, but it's not going to do much to convince people who think modrons are silly-looking that they aren't. The artist was going for whimsical rather than "stern beings of perfect Law." 

The image of Regulus on the article's opening splash page is gorgeous, however, and should impress anyone. The best modron illustration there is Tony DiTerlizzi's single image, which is new.


----------



## BOZ (Mar 26, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> If you guys look on the page in the magazine where they talk about the previews for Dragon #355, you'll see a picture of the cannon golem right next to the text. It's definitely a golem that will shoot cannon balls, not canon text




indeed.    despite people's claims that it may be the cover image, i will submit the idea that interior images have appeared in the "next issue" blurb before - in fact, last month that happened.


----------



## Arnwyn (Mar 26, 2007)

I forgot to mention - and will do so now - that I found Dragon #354's cover to be the best Dragon cover I've seen in years... and certainly within the 3e era of Dragon mag.

Whoever came up with that image (and caption!) needs to be commended. And should win the lottery.


----------



## Particle_Man (Mar 27, 2007)

My FLGS just got it in today.  Slow and steady, I guess.  

Good mag though.  I hope to see more modrons in future articles.


----------



## Erik Mona (Mar 27, 2007)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Whoever came up with that image (and caption!) needs to be commended. And should win the lottery.




The image was my idea. Andrew sketched a half-dozen images, and Senior Art Director Sean Glenn and I picked our favorite. Sean came up with the caption, which is hilarious on a number of levels.

--Erik

PS: No cannon golem on the next cover. Sorry!


----------



## BOZ (Mar 28, 2007)

that's just as well - can't wait to see it posted.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 28, 2007)

Erik,

So...what's on the cover then of Dragon 355 then?


----------



## Erik Mona (Mar 28, 2007)

It was supposed to be a monster hunter with all kinds of trophies, but it kind of turned into "dark elf guy sort of standing there." 

--Erik


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 28, 2007)

Erik,

Darn. I was hoping for something cooler, like a Canon Golem.  Still won't stop me from buying that issue though. Possibly.


----------



## Clueless (Mar 28, 2007)

Is the dark elf guy at least kinda cute? Cause y'know - on behalf of the female contingent I could go for that given the incubus a few issues back.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 28, 2007)

Clueless,

You scare me some times....*backs away*


*issue 353 btw for Incubi*


----------



## BOZ (Mar 28, 2007)

Erik Mona said:
			
		

> It was supposed to be a monster hunter with all kinds of trophies, but it kind of turned into "dark elf guy sort of standing there."




exciting!  

the other cover sounds more innovative - are you going to use it somewhere else?


----------



## Clueless (Mar 28, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Clueless,
> You scare me some times....*backs away*
> *issue 353 btw for Incubi*




Bah.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 29, 2007)

You say "bah" I say "You are very, very scary person..."

But I'll survive.


----------



## BOZ (Mar 29, 2007)

bah, not so scary - the way some fellows drool over the female drow, it's just as well if she has a little fun with boy-toy eye candy.


----------



## Razz (Mar 29, 2007)

BOZ said:
			
		

> bah, not so scary - the way some fellows drool over the female drow, it's just as well if she has a little fun with boy-toy eye candy.




Yeah, there's really no difference between the male and females when it comes to lusting over fantasy figures. My wife thinks yuan-ti are sexy (the purebloods mainly, of course) and she had a dream of a handsome half-red dragon/half-human figure. Strange dreams that one gets when she sleeps. LOL


----------



## RavinRay (Mar 30, 2007)

Ripzerai said:
			
		

> I liked the art in the modron article, but it's not going to do much to convince people who think modrons are silly-looking that they aren't. The artist was going for whimsical rather than "stern beings of perfect Law."



Well, for the base modrons anyway. The hierarch modrons ought to look sterner.


> The image of Regulus on the article's opening splash page is gorgeous, however, and should impress anyone.



I agree.

Oh yeah, so far I've seen 3 of the 5 grails.


----------



## BOZ (Apr 2, 2007)

RavinRay said:
			
		

> Well, for the base modrons anyway. The hierarch modrons ought to look sterner.




they certainly did in 1E.


----------



## Clueless (Apr 2, 2007)

I like the artist for the modrons, very Tony D in look which she says she based it on - but I've seen her other stuff on D.Art - her work should get used more and more often as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Apr 9, 2007)

I just got the issue but I'm disappointed with the stats of the exiled modron. It has Level adjustment +1 but I can't for the life of me figure out why. It has several disadvantages, such as slow reactions (it remains flat footed for the first round of combat) and no corresponding powers to make up for it. Can anyone say why they are LA +1?


----------



## Sammael (Apr 9, 2007)

That was my reaction as well. The Exile should have no level adjustment.


----------



## Nightfall (Apr 10, 2007)

Maybe because they gain the living construct trait? Who knows?


----------



## Razz (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm still upset over the reply in #355 about the Hierarch Modrons. Their whole "if, but most likely not" answer to doing them. I sure would like to know the point of being teased with the Base Modrons with no looking forward to the rest of the race.

That was like Fiend Folio 3E leaving out the other three of the rilmani.  :\ I say if you do an outsider race, do all the ones from 2E before moving on. You'll just get a lot of disappointments if you don't.


----------



## Particle_Man (Apr 10, 2007)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> I just got the issue but I'm disappointed with the stats of the exiled modron. It has Level adjustment +1 but I can't for the life of me figure out why. It has several disadvantages, such as slow reactions (it remains flat footed for the first round of combat) and no corresponding powers to make up for it. Can anyone say why they are LA +1?




Is it the idea that all races (except those that slip through the cracks) that could give a mental ability score bonus require at least a +1 LA?  That is what happened to the Blue in XPH, to my disappointment.


----------



## kenmarable (Apr 10, 2007)

At work, I only have the electronic draft I submitted, and I'm sure there were changes, so I'll double check the actual magazine when I get home. But originally I had acid, cold, and fire resistance 2, and +2 Nat AC, plus being a Living Construct is probably overall a good benefit (since there's good and bad with it, and a lot of both are rare things, so it's hard to judge), and being not a humanoid is certainly a major benefit. Having played a telepath, and in another campaign having my wife play an enchanter, I can attest that there are A LOT of commonly-used spells and psionic powers that are "humanoid only" that modrons would still be immune to.

But I also had the LA at +2 in the my draft, which looking back is definitely too high. Whoops! Not sure how I talked myself into that. I'll have to check and see what changes were made by Jason or the other editors. Being a non-humanoid construct (even a living construct) is certainly a big benefit, and if any of the resistances and/or natural AC were preserved, then I am definitely comfortable with them as LA +1. However, campaigns and groups vary, and Level Adjustment is one of those things I can see some groups decreasing depending on both their style of play, what classes the race is taking, and what sort of encounters would be typical in the campaign.


----------



## Shade (Apr 10, 2007)

If you were following the Savage Species guidelines, you were spot on at LA +2.

"A natural armor bonus is worth at least a +1 level adjustment"
"Resistance to Energy: This special ability is worth a level adjustment of +½ per energy type (rounded up)."

By those guidelines, the construct type would also add +1, but since living constructs hadn't been invented yet, that would have probably offset it.

Of course, these are just guidelines, and actual comparisons to other races would make the +1 seem more attractive.


----------



## kenmarable (Apr 10, 2007)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> Is it the idea that all races (except those that slip through the cracks) that could give a mental ability score bonus require at least a +1 LA?  That is what happened to the Blue in XPH, to my disappointment.



I can tell you that wasn't my thinking at all, especially since I agree with you on the Blue. I really scratched my head at that one. It's never come up in my campaigns, but I'd house rule Blues as LA +0. The perks they get (good speed for small creature, +4 skill bonus to a commonly used skill, and single power point once) really don't outweigh the unbalanced ability score adjustments (even if Int is more beneficial than Cha 90% of the time, but a Str penalty to a small creature is a very common double whammy) and lack of any other real bonus (+4 to Ride ain't exactly munchkin). Heck, kalashtar receive a power point at every frelling level. And the dromites, duergar, and half-giants manage to get a psi-like power with their LA +1!

As a tangent to that tangent, does anyone else think kobolds should be LA -1?


----------



## Reese (Apr 10, 2007)

This certainly sounds like an iteresting issue. I'm gonna have to send out the husband for a copy today.


----------



## kenmarable (Apr 10, 2007)

Razz said:
			
		

> I'm still upset over the reply in #355 about the Hierarch Modrons. Their whole "if, but most likely not" answer to doing them. I sure would like to know the point of being teased with the Base Modrons with no looking forward to the rest of the race.
> 
> That was like Fiend Folio 3E leaving out the other three of the rilmani.  :\ I say if you do an outsider race, do all the ones from 2E before moving on. You'll just get a lot of disappointments if you don't.



Can't comment on anything in #355 (hopefully that one arrives faster than #354 did for me)  and I am admittedly biased, but I tend to agree. I realize that Dragon magazine is under greater space constraints than the Fiend Folio, however, so the rilmani thing irks me more than the hierarch modrons. 

However, I'd still love to see some re-envisioning of the hierarch modrons whoever does it. I'm not just talking about making their stats 3.5 or changing them to Constructs. I mean actually re-envisioning them to help each individual rank stand out as interesting rather than currently how there's a dud or three that just fill in the progression. For example, I'm glad that Paizo kept in the Climb speed I had for tridrones, but was a bit chagrined that they cut out their skirmish ability (right out of Complete Adventurer +1d6 skirmish). I suppose it could be easily abused with their multiple attacks, so I understand mechanically why it might be cut, but I really liked the flavor that ability gave to tridrones, and how it gave them a unique combat role.

It's that sort of thing that I'd love to see happen with the hierarchs that matters more to me than getting them '3.5'ed or altered to Constructs. If I have time and Paizo doesn't come to me begging for a follow-up article or two (I can dream, can't I?) I'll see about working on them here and there to see what people think. However, it won't be anytime soon since I'm kinda booked at the moment. As an aside, however, I do have a couple UNofficial web enhancements to post almost ready. One is a cut part of the article discussing altering modrons to fit into Forgotten Realms and Eberron, and the other is a Savage Species style monster class for a true modron, where you begin as a monodrone and advance to pentadrone. I did that up for a PC I hope to play someday.  

The only other thing that was significantly cut from the article were three new feats. Two were partially worked into the modron traits, and were pretty bland to begin with anyway. They were one of those "good idea at the time, but execution wasn't exciting" things that was a good cut they made.


----------



## Razz (Apr 10, 2007)

kenmarable said:
			
		

> It's that sort of thing that I'd love to see happen with the hierarchs that matters more to me than getting them '3.5'ed or altered to Constructs. If I have time and Paizo doesn't come to me begging for a follow-up article or two (I can dream, can't I?) I'll see about working on them here and there to see what people think. However, it won't be anytime soon since I'm kinda booked at the moment. As an aside, however, I do have a couple UNofficial web enhancements to post almost ready. One is a cut part of the article discussing altering modrons to fit into Forgotten Realms and Eberron, and the other is a Savage Species style monster class for a true modron, where you begin as a monodrone and advance to pentadrone. I did that up for a PC I hope to play someday.




I went and updated the Hierarchs myself for my own games since this recent let-down. I finished all the mechanics but I agree with you on other unique ideas for them rather than one being more physically, mentally, and magically superior than the one below it.

For example, I gave the *Decaton* a supernatural ability to have a _status_ effect on constantly with all modrons within its telepathy range. This allows it to better adjucate where it is most needed so it can use its _greater teleport_ (something all hierarchs have access to) to go where it is needed to repair damaged modrons. I gave it _mass repair moderate damage_ as opposed to its _healing circle_ it had in 3.0 and I let it keep _heal_ but it only works on constructs.

I am working on *Nonatons* and *Octons*. I wasn't sure if I should lose or keep the 50 ft. speed for Nonatons from their 3.0 version but I gave Octons a swim speed, of course, and increased their maneuverability from their 3.0 version according to their descriptive text (which says they can maneuver in the air very well). I also wasn't sure if I should give them improved grab, since they both have tentacles, and was thinking of giving Octon constrict as well.

I read that old Dragon Magazine article called "Modron Magic" written by Monte Cook (who also did Modron March...he really loves modrons I noticed) and read that *Septons* are the ones in charge of crafting magic items and spells for the modrons. So I gave it two unique abilities. One was based off the Midgard Dwarf from _*Frostburn*_ where they automatically meet the item creation feat prerequisite for crafting magic items (but they must have access to the spells to enchant them, still, unlike the Midgard Dwarf since modrons are highly magical).  The second one was based off of *Book of Vile Darkness* Grazz't, called _Item Mastery_ where they can use any magic item as if automatically succeeding on their Use Magic Device check.

As for *Hextons*, I gave them _Repetitive Attack_ as the Quadrone you did, since I figure they'd be fighting machines since they're the generals of the modron armies. I was also thinking of giving them either a sort of summon ability 1/day to summon more modrons or something akin to the Marshal class, where they emit an aura that affects lawful allies into granting them bonuses to attack, damage, saving throws, or temporary hit points and the Hexton can switch between the auras as a swift action. Maybe give them the abilities of a 10th-level Marshal and the auras only affect lawful allies (or maybe just modrons?)

I am not sure what to do with *Quintons* and *Quartons* but I definitely gave them Multiweapon Fighting with Large longswords for their melee. Same with hexton, I have it wield two Large longswords and also use its 2 claws as its natural attacks.

*Tertians* were already done in Dungeon #144 and it was the Tertian that helped me do the ones below it. 

The *Secundus * was the one I had real trouble on. I upgraded it to be a little more tougher than the Tertian's stats but wasn't sure whether to keep it possessing the abilities of a 13th-level Monk as the 3.0 version or lower or raise it. When I left it alone however, I realized it was really powerful, as much as a Solar (which they're compared to you by you in the article for #354 anyway)   I may definitely have to decrease their natural armor since they now possess an AC of 50 for their high Wisdom score (I gave them Wisdom 30, 2 more than the Tertian) and +2 AC for being 13th-level Monk. Much higher than the Solar and Pit Fiend and with 20th-level Sorceror spellcasting ability with access to Cleric spells to boot...it may just be a bit too high. Well...it's only 8 higher than a pit fiends, but if they cast _mage armor_ and _shield_ then it's too much lol (though a 1st-level sorceror pit fiend can pull off the same and get 48 AC, and it can wear magic items to beef it up that it possesses and solars may have 35 AC but they cast as 20th-level clerics...so maybe it's not such a big deal a Secundus has 50 AC without buffs...?)

I also gave all hierarchs Improved Toughness as one of their feats along with Great Fortitude, as per the Tertian. It makes them more formidable due to the lack of them being Outsiders (no Constitution score, all poor saves, Medium BAB).

As for their spellcasting I worked it out so Decatons cast up to 5th-level spells, Nonatons and Octons up to 6th-level, Septons and Hextons up to 7th-level, Quintons and Quartons up to 8th-level, Tertian and Secundus 9th-level.

The ones that were psionic got the Psionic subtype and equivalent Psi-Like Abilities to what they had in their 3.0 versions (as per the _*Expanded Psionics Handbook*_ rules.)

When I am totally complete I plan to share it on the Monster Forums here at ENWorld and you guys are free to use it as you please. Credit due will all I'll be happy for if it's used for publishing.


----------

