# OOC Kingdom of Ashes V - Brood city, baby!



## The_Universe (Nov 22, 2004)

The old thread is here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104609 

Welcome to the new thread.  We're approaching 500 on the old one.  As soon as we hit it, let's move over here.


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## Archon (Nov 22, 2004)

*"Where's the can opener?"*

in response to Kat's q,
yes, everybody knows about the closet but no, Archon didn't tell anybody. it would have went something like this....
L'Aurel- "Hey, where's Archon i need to know where he keeps his can opener?"
Jansten- "Oh, hey, he's chillin' in the secret closet where his 'rents we're killed. But if your looking for the can opener it's in the top drawer."
so, yeah everyone knows about it.
mik


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## The_Universe (Nov 22, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> in response to Kat's q,
> yes, everybody knows about the closet but no, Archon didn't tell anybody. it would have went something like this....
> L'Aurel- "Hey, where's Archon i need to know where he keeps his can opener?"
> Jansten- "Oh, hey, he's chillin' in the secret closet where his 'rents we're killed. But if your looking for the can opener it's in the top drawer."
> ...



 That is hilarious (for the record).


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> That is hilarious (for the record).



 Made me laugh.


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## Laurel (Nov 23, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> in response to Kat's q,
> yes, everybody knows about the closet but no, Archon didn't tell anybody. it would have went something like this....
> L'Aurel- "Hey, where's Archon i need to know where he keeps his can opener?"
> Jansten- "Oh, hey, he's chillin' in the secret closet where his 'rents we're killed. But if your looking for the can opener it's in the top drawer."
> ...



hehehe- Well.... hey, it is close to probably what Jansten would do... or she asks him he turns invisible then says what you said from above 

Thanks for the answer!


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## The_Universe (Nov 23, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Ok. We have hashed out what we think the Bluestar wants. But now we need to know exactly what we want from him. We can't just go in with the generic idea of "troops" and "support" or we'll have our behinds handed to us on a platter. What kinds of troops do we want? Where do we want them? And how are we going to get them there?



 There was some discussion started about this on the last thread.  Let's not lose sight of it.   It would appear we have about 3 weeks to hash it out, but being a little ahead of the game can't hurt.  

The more time I have to prepare, the better the game will be - so let's DECIDE what we're going for, so that we can move on firmly and effectively.  The less I have to improv troop compositions, the better. Trust me.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 23, 2004)

We want:

(1) The army that the king sent North free of their deal with the Devil.
(2) The service of his armies until Jaine, or a legit. heir, sits on the actual throne.
(3) Cake.
(4) His gradual disarmament?
(5) A promise that, if he crosses the border, he will obey the laws of *our* kingdom or suffer the consequences.
(6) His phylactory (sp?) in our possession in order to ensure that he does not break his promises.


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## Laurel (Nov 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We want:
> (1) The army that the king sent North free of their deal with the Devil.
> (2) The service of his armies until Jaine, or a legit. heir, sits on the actual throne.
> (3) Cake.
> ...



Only one question, what of these are deal breakers?  Meaning what can we not accept him to say no to- or is that if he says no to anything the deal is off?


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## Archon (Nov 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Only one question, what of these are deal breakers?  Meaning what can we not accept him to say no to- or is that if he says no to anything the deal is off?



1,3 and 6


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## Laurel (Nov 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We want:
> (1) The army that the king sent North free of their deal with the Devil.
> (2) The service of his armies until Jaine, or a legit. heir, sits on the actual throne.
> (3) Cake.
> ...



7) While the fight is in *our* land the army is under Jain's ultimate rule?


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## The_Universe (Nov 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We want:
> 
> (1) The army that the king sent North free of their deal with the Devil.
> (2) The service of his armies until Jaine, or a legit. heir, sits on the actual throne.
> ...



 The things you want from him, and the things you want to make sure he doesn't do don't really balance out.  It's VERY good to hash out what you want, but make sure that you're being realistic as you deal.  

Why, for instance, would he want 1)? Is there a way to make it desirable?

2) Is essentially a reasonable request.

3) It's a little known fact, but Lich's are actually incredibly susceptible to cake.  It's like kryptonite.  

4) is also unattractive by every metric I can think of.  Why would he want to disarm his nation, unless the Phoenix Kingdom is similarly disarmed?  

5) is certainly possible, but remember that until Tain is defeated and borders re-settled, what exactly constitutes *your* kingdom will almost certainly be in question.  

6) is completely unattractive.  If you're going to demand something that important from him, expect him to demand the same (or something of similar value, at least) from you.  

Also, remember that you have a finite number of bargaining chips, and that while you might be able to get 2-for-1 for some of them (like the Jaine/AB marriage and/or bringing down the ward) you probably can't get the same for _all_ of them.

But it's a good start!

Just so it's not lost, Jaine's ideas were here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1869060&postcount=488

Keep it coming!


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## Laurel (Nov 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, remember that you have a finite number of bargaining chips, and that while you might be able to get 2-for-1 for some of them (like the Jaine/AB marriage and/or bringing down the ward) you probably can't get the same for _all_ of them.



Not to go backward, but we agreed IC that we could offer him his freedom and bring down the ward and later acceptance of him being king of his territories. (very brief synopsis and there where some but/if clauses and such). The one thing that was not agreed upon by anyone including Jaine was to offer her up, nor to offer Aregonn a deal that Jaine and AB would marry and he gets the kids or he gets Jaine or what not.....


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## Laurel (Nov 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Just so it's not lost, Jaine's ideas were here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1869060&postcount=488



1) A force to help relieve/capture Caer Albion. 
2) A force to slow the retrieval of the blades on the Isle of Mourning, or retrieve the Blades themselves. 
3) Reinforcements/equipment for the force protecting Hyrwl and New Oceanus
4) At least one other expeditionary force, to be used for other important targets that may arise. 
These tasks might include...
---Retaking Oceanus
---Capturing important places like Caer Melyn
---Reacting to other Draconid invasions
---Others?
5) She also wants a naval force of some sort, but the Bluestar is unlikely to be able to provide one. For that, she may have to turn to mercenaries, privateering, or some combination thereof.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 23, 2004)

Unattractive as some of those things may be, if he wants his freedom, he's going to have to be willing to give us something that he doesn't want to give in order to make it possible.

If he doesn't not agree to give us his phylactory, I think it is reasonable for us to know where it is... possibly placing it on neutral ground as a back-up... we need reassurance that he is going to keep his promises.  My list was ideal... I know we won't get all of it... 

His "kingdom" can be anything North of where the wall was... there will just be no barrier anymore.

Also-- we need the blades destroyed.  Add that to the big list.


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## The_Universe (Nov 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Unattractive as some of those things may be, if he wants his freedom, he's going to have to be willing to give us something that he doesn't want to give in order to make it possible.



What he's giving you (presumably) in exchange for the barrier coming down is victory in the war against Tain, and survival against the draconids.  If you're going to place limits on how he does that, you have to give *more* up, or at least accept similar limits yourselves.   



> If he doesn't not agree to give us his phylactory, I think it is reasonable for us to know where it is... possibly placing it on neutral ground as a back-up... we need reassurance that he is going to keep his promises. My list was ideal... I know we won't get all of it...



 Well, reassurances that he will keep his promises might have to be procedural, rather than material.  Furthermore, if you need some sort of external assurance that he will keep his promise, expect him to demand the same from you.  What can you give him that will ensure you keep your promises?  



> His "kingdom" can be anything North of where the wall was... there will just be no barrier anymore.



 That's a good idea, but he might want more...



> Also-- we need the blades destroyed. Add that to the big list.



Yes you do. Might you also want to know why he wants them destroyed, particularly since one is his phylactery...?


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## The_Universe (Nov 23, 2004)

> 1) A force to help relieve/capture Caer Albion.
> 2) A force to slow the retrieval of the blades on the Isle of Mourning, or retrieve the Blades themselves.
> 3) Reinforcements/equipment for the force protecting Hyrwl and New Oceanus
> 4) At least one other expeditionary force, to be used for other important targets that may arise.
> ...



Thanks for re-posting the details of the physical forces she's looking for.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Yes you do. Might you also want to know why he wants them destroyed, particularly since one is his phylactery...?




Well, we need to work that in.

However, I do not think that we should give him any more land.  Think he needs to be happy with what he has.


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## Xath (Nov 23, 2004)

Giving him more land might be unavoidable.  After all, he will be helping us to win the entire ringed continent, save Eiren.


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## The_Universe (Nov 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Well, we need to work that in.
> 
> However, I do not think that we should give him any more land.  Think he needs to be happy with what he has.



 That's a fine limit to hope to get - but if you're going to limit him, expect him to demand similar limits from yourselves, _*or*_ for something else in return.  His people will be (re)dying for it, and you - giving him a frozen swamp that he already owns may not be desirable.  

A good way to think about it, as JC has mentioned in the past, is the alliance between the US and the Soviets in WWII.  They were very few limits on how the war was to be fought in that case, but they also let the soviets keep almost all of what they took.  You don't need to do the same thing...but the bad stuff can't be one-sided.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

I have an idea!

What if we offer _him_ the cake?!

GENIUS!


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I have an idea!
> 
> What if we offer _him_ the cake?!
> 
> GENIUS!



Problem solved! You just won D&D! 

*Confetti and balloons fall from the sky, and the sound of kazoos echoes in your ears*

Seriously, though....I'd REALLY appreciated it if we didn't have a repeat of last weekend, where an entirely new tangent of discussion was introduced _the day before the game. _Discuss and decide the stuff *now, *I'm begging you. 

Lest there be any doubt, I will note: *It is important to me that you do so*. I am not idly encouraging you (at least, not in this case). 

Thanks gang! The game is really in the home stretch, and I need your help to make sure it has a fitting finale.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

When it comes to land, we do not want to encourage the Bluestar to go off conquring foreign lands--don't want him taking over the ninja people's land in the west... so, I think we need to promise him some chunk of land somewhere and make him agree that he will not expand his "empire" after that... 

But, in order to get that land, he has to rid himself of all undead troops and maintain a voluntary or merc. army.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

Land Options - something we give:
(1) We give him what he takes - bad idea.
(2) We give him a certain percentage of what he takes - possibility.
(3) We offer him a specific chunk now, he gets it when we win - possibility.

Wizardry - something we give:
(1) He can establish his own school of Wizardry that our students can study at.
(2) We allow his students to study at our school of Wizardry.
     *These are both possible.

Army Options - something he looses:
(1) He must, over the next so many years (say 75-100) re-deadify all of his undead soliders and replace them with voluntary/merc armies - in a perfect world, this would be the solution... but, probably not going to get him to bite.
(2) No undead in new lands (south of the wall) - possibility.
(3) No new undead may be created - not incredibly likely... but, it would be nice.


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

> don't want him taking over the ninja people's land in the west...



 Just for clarification, this land is currently controlled by Draconids.  Either way, Big Blue seems pretty well fixated on the current continent.


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

GREAT!  Well ranked and well thought!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

We also need to determine *HOW* we are going to go about talking with Big Blue... this is kind of like a debate round- or, at least that's the way I think about it.  So, there are several options:
First Option:
(1) Big Blue presents first (we'll call this the Undead Constructive)... he lays out what he wants to achieve while detailing what he expects us to give up.
(2) Circle presents second (we'll call this the Phoenix Constructive)... we lay out what we want and what we expect Big Blue to give up.
(3) The rebuttals begin... we look over each of our options and chip away at each plan until they meld into one plan.

Second Option:
Reverse #1 and #2 of First Option.

Each position has its advantages... if we know what Big Blue wants before we offer our ideas, we can save a lot of time negotiating by attempting to offer things that fit well within his plan.  However, if we go first, it offers us a sort of 'upper hand' in that it makes it seem like we have a little more control... even if we don't.

Next, we need to determine how we want to present our Phoenix Constructive... do we want to have it be very "middle of the road" (ie, you will be allowed your freedom, you will get X amount of land, your students will be accepted into our school of Wizardry) _*or*_ do we want to initially present the extremems that we want (ie, you will completely disarm in 10 years, you will gain no new land, you will wear pink socks every day for the rest of your life, and you will supply us with an unlimited supply of cake from now until eternity).


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

In short our presentation options are:

(1) Us first and take the middle road.
(2) Us first and take the extreme road.
(3) Him first and take the middle road.
(4) Him first and take the extreme road.

What do we think, kiddies?


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We also need to determine *HOW* we are going to go about talking with Big Blue... this is kind of like a debate round- or, at least that's the way I think about it.  So, there are several options:
> First Option:
> (1) Big Blue presents first (we'll call this the Undead Constructive)... he lays out what he wants to achieve while detailing what he expects us to give up.
> (2) Circle presents second (we'll call this the Phoenix Constructive)... we lay out what we want and what we expect Big Blue to give up.
> ...



 This is completely a matter of preference and strategy.  Since Jaine will not be there, she wants you to choose how you want do it.  All of Liz's options have their advantages and disadvantages.  By choosing how you want to present your stuff, you can really work out *what* you're going to present. 

(Also, it's probably a good idea to get everything you agree to in writing.  Someone will either have to scribe the proceedings (difficult) or we need to start with a written "contract" that we can modify.  But that's procedural, not substantive.  Let's get the substantive stuff figured, first!)


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> (Also, it's probably a good idea to get everything you agree to in writing.  Someone will either have to scribe the proceedings (difficult) or we need to start with a written "contract" that we can modify.  But that's procedural, not substantive.  Let's get the substantive stuff figured, first!)




What we are going to present also depends on when and how we are going to present it, though... which is why we need to know what "road" we are going to take in our "official" presentation.

But, as much as I want to get everything penned out right now, it looks like we are the only two on the boards... so, I can talk all I want, but nothing'll get figured out.


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## Archon (Nov 24, 2004)

*Hey, hey, he's our man if he can't do it-GREAT!!!!*

i'm on the boards too, but mostly in a supportive, "Go get'em team!" sort of way.

mik


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i'm on the boards too, but mostly in a supportive, "Go get'em team!" sort of way.
> 
> mik



 Constructive input is always appreciated.  For reasons that should be obvious, I can no longer provide XP incentives for it, but doing some critical thinking and preparation now (even if it is contrary to the current trend of events) is better than doing it the day before we play.    If you're going to dissent, do it now, for God's sake!


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> What we are going to present also depends on when and how we are going to present it, though... which is why we need to know what "road" we are going to take in our "official" presentation.
> 
> But, as much as I want to get everything penned out right now, it looks like we are the only two on the boards... so, I can talk all I want, but nothing'll get figured out.



 Right.  Better to take care of the substantive stuff now, as I said.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i'm on the boards too, but mostly in a supportive, "Go get'em team!" sort of way.
> 
> mik



 Well, if you're here-- please, look at the options I presented about *how* we want to go about chatting with Big Blue and vote or offer a better plan!


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## Laurel (Nov 24, 2004)

*On boards just not this thread.....*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> In short our presentation options are:
> (1) Us first and take the middle road.
> (2) Us first and take the extreme road.
> (3) Him first and take the middle road.
> ...



I'll start here:
Whatever we place on the table, he will want to go down from there.  Starting with the extreme and backing off always gives that slight looka nd feel of see aren't I nice look at the bargain I'm givin ya.  When bartering in Mexico they may start at 10 american dollars for something, but quickly it drops to 2 american dollars.

We can not say which way he will go, but so far he's been a smart cookie.  I think him going first can give us an advantage.  It shows we are willing to listen, and we aren't going to rush into anything.  He doesn't know what we are willing to put on the table, so before we start offering anything it may be good to see what he is *actually* looking for and minimum willing to give up (if anything).  
Even start by, "We called this meeting, but we want to hear your ideas first" somehting along those lines.


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## Laurel (Nov 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Land Options - something we give:
> (1) We give him what he takes - bad idea.
> (2) We give him a certain percentage of what he takes - possibility.
> (3) We offer him a specific chunk now, he gets it when we win - possibility.



1- since the fighting is for and around the ringed continent bad idea.  We would be left with almost nothing.
2- Since we will both be fighting this could work.  Would give encouragement for him to fight for more area.  Taking it beyond the ringed continent.
3- I like this the best.  The fighting is only done when all Tain's baddies are gone (has to be stipulated somewhere, somehow)  This way we know what each are getting specifically.
adding another option- 4- ringed continent stays ours.  North stays his.  We split the west lands.  Master Ryoko may not be thrilled, but currently it's all going to Jaine anyways.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Wizardry - something we give:
> (1) He can establish his own school of Wizardry that our students can study at.
> (2) We allow his students to study at our school of Wizardry.
> *These are both possible.



Why not agree to have two.  One in our kingdom and one in his, a free flow of ideas.  No sense in allowing only him to warp all those young bluemage minds. But it would let him spread his knowledge and teachings.  Gain some of those voluntary memebers (hopefully, not many but people have free will)



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Army Options - something he looses:
> (1) He must, over the next so many years (say 75-100) re-deadify all of his undead soliders and replace them with voluntary/merc armies - in a perfect world, this would be the solution... but, probably not going to get him to bite.
> (2) No undead in new lands (south of the wall) - possibility.
> (3) No new undead may be created - not incredibly likely... but, it would be nice.



1- would be nice and we should start there with this one.  Who knows he may take it.
2- again would be nice and should be brought up if he says no to 1.
3- No undead against will? Not sure how to inforce this though.  Basically he can deadify his whole counrty if he wants, since he has been North for a long time and hasn't turned all of them I doubt he would once free either.  If we hear word of him deadifying any of our people who travel North it is an act of war.  The undead stay to his territories, and any movement outside will be as him moving his army south and thus an act of war.

Just my thought so far though.....


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

Thanks for the comments, Kat.  Others?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

Question-- is Master R's land in the West actually going to the Phoenix throne if it is freed from the draconids?  Or is it going *back* to Master R and his people?


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Question-- is Master R's land in the West actually going to the Phoenix throne if it is freed from the draconids?  Or is it going *back* to Master R and his people?



 I don't believe that this has even really been mentioned before now.  I think you've got your hands full with the Great Ring.  I recommend that you leave the mysterious West for another generation.  

If you ask Emperor Ryoko, he'll tell you that for all intents and purposes, his land is _totally_ lost. It's all draconids and undead, now.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I don't believe that this has even really been mentioned before now.  I think you've got your hands full with the Great Ring.  I recommend that you leave the mysterious West for another generation.
> 
> If you ask Emperor Ryoko, he'll tell you that for all intents and purposes, his land is _totally_ lost. It's all draconids and undead, now.



 If it were suggested and attempts were going to be made to take it back, it should go to Master R, anyway... at least, that's what Justice thinks.


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## Xath (Nov 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I don't believe that this has even really been mentioned before now.  I think you've got your hands full with the Great Ring.  I recommend that you leave the mysterious West for another generation.





So...you're saying your next Aeres campaign will be OA?


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## Laurel (Nov 24, 2004)

*Have a happy turkey day/weekend!*

So we can offer the land to him   Not all just part, but hey if we can give part of it to bluestar instead of parts of ringed continent that's the best.  Any land that Jaine gets from this deal she can split however she wants, or deed however she wants.  

She's already given some to Justice and to the black orcs that we don't even own yet.  At least with the lands in the west, she would be getting land back for someone else, but at that point it is just us seeing how good a queen we put on the throne.

Also, maybe not the question to ask, but..... So the war ends when Tain is dead? When the forces are out of the ringed continent? Till all the draconic and undead forces are dead?


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## The_Universe (Nov 24, 2004)

Good questions.  

Jaine's suggestions for when the war ends would probably have these conditions: 

1) When all substantial draconic forces have been eliminated

2) when she (or a rightfully chosen heir) sits on the falcon/phoenix throne. 

Both conditions have to be met for the war to be considered "over."

But, as with the other, this is just a good jumping off point.


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## The_Universe (Nov 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> So...you're saying your next Aeres campaign will be OA?



 More like hinting that the main part wouldn't happen in the vicinity of the Great Ring - think Swashbuckling Adventures, rather than Oriental Adventures.


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## The_Universe (Nov 25, 2004)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1872702&postcount=6

I would very much appreciate it if everyone would take a moment some time before the 10th, and read the post linked above, that comes from this thread: 
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108285

Although written by someone else, it sums up my thoughts on the matter of how and why we play very succinctly.  However, I will note: feel free to ignore number 9.  I know I do. 

I will also send this out over gmail, just to make sure it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.  

Now, back to the campaign discussion!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 25, 2004)

I do not believe that killing Tain will do much to end the war... if, indeed, he has made a deal with some dark evil force as we have learned through out Communism sessions, there will always be someone to fill his place.  We need to concentrate on discovering what the dark evil force is and smashing it to bits.


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## The_Universe (Nov 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I do not believe that killing Tain will do much to end the war... if, indeed, he has made a deal with some dark evil force as we have learned through out Communism sessions, there will always be someone to fill his place.  We need to concentrate on discovering what the dark evil force is and smashing it to bits.



 Kaereth smash?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 25, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Kaereth smash?



 And, it'll be beautiful.


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## The_Universe (Nov 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I do not believe that killing Tain will do much to end the war... if, indeed, he has made a deal with some dark evil force as we have learned through out Communism sessions, there will always be someone to fill his place.  We need to concentrate on discovering what the dark evil force is and smashing it to bits.



 Killing Tain will certainly not *hurt*, but you're correct in noting that the various commune attempts have hinted that the problem is somewhat deeper than this one man.  Understanding why Tain has suddenly turned against a kingdom he already ruled is probably essential to learning how to defeat him.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Just bumping the thread to remind everyone that there is still discussion to be had, questions to be asked and answered, and all of that fun stuff.  I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving, especially those of you who I did not have the chance to share a little bit of ours with.   

In the spirit of the holiday, I'd like to note that I am thankful for all of you.  It's nice to have a group to game with, and it is even better to have friends.  

[SNIFFLE]I promised....I promised myself....I wouldn't...cry![/SNIFFLE]

Back to the game discussion!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Killing Tain will certainly not *hurt*, but you're correct in noting that the various commune attempts have hinted that the problem is somewhat deeper than this one man.  Understanding why Tain has suddenly turned against a kingdom he already ruled is probably essential to learning how to defeat him.



 So, outside of Communing, how can we go about doing this?

(1) Find a way to plant someone in Tain's inner-circle (INTRIGUE!!)
(2) Do a very dangerous scouting mission to where Tain is living (DANGER!!)
(3) Send in Xath or Justice as a very special gift for Tain... get him drunk and talking (SCANDAL!!)
(4) Ask Big Blue (NOT VERY EXCITING!!)
(5) Capture some of Tain's inner circle and question them (EXCITEMENT!!)

Just some ideas... none of which are mutually exclusive... but, ways to find out that information... probably best suited for *after* the Caer Albion/going North business -- except for the asking the Bluestar part, we can do that while we are North.

However-- it is yet to be decided *how* we want to present ourselves to Big Blue... Xath the Bard, in particular, should have something to say about this... being a master of persuasion and the like...  Justice knows what she thinks-- and she likes to think she's really good at the diplomacy thing, but really wants to know what Xath thinks... (if she has already responded and I have spaced it, I apologize... haven't been on our thread for a while -- if that is the case, Gertie, would you mind refreshing me?).


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

Possible alternatives to utilizing the OOC ENWorld Forum:


(1) Purchase an ENWorld Thread:
For $40/year, we can purchase our own little forum here at ENWorld and, I think it's a really good idea.  I know that we *can* use ENWorld for free however, we do place a pretty heavy burden on the site... it'd be like $7/person/year.

(2) Move to Yahoo! Groups:
A couple weeks ago, I started up a Yahoo! Group for KoA, if only to dink around with it... it seems pretty cool... would allow us to have email and threaded conversations from one place (so, post to the message board and it will be sent to everyone in the group).  It may be a better way to include everyone, as well... this is free, as well.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

*Great ideas!*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So, outside of Communing, how can we go about doing this?
> 
> (1) Find a way to plant someone in Tain's inner-circle (INTRIGUE!!)



 That's a really cool idea.  Not sure how to play it out, though.  Hard to have one PC in a completely different place than every one else.  However, if someone can come up with a solution to the real life logistics as well as the in-game ones, I think this is a great idea.



> (2) Do a very dangerous scouting mission to where Tain is living (DANGER!!)



 I think you'll probably end up doing this, anyway.  However, the sooner it's done the better off you'll be, I suspect. 



> (3) Send in Xath or Justice as a very special gift for Tain... get him drunk and talking (SCANDAL!!)



 And hey, if that doesn't work, I've been told that Archon is a very pretty man...



> (4) Ask Big Blue (NOT VERY EXCITING!!)



 definitely a good idea, although a) he may not know it all (though he probably knows something) and b) You'll probably want to check yourselves with something so important.  


> (5) Capture some of Tain's inner circle and question them (EXCITEMENT!!)





> Just some ideas... none of which are mutually exclusive... but, ways to find out that information... probably best suited for *after* the Caer Albion/going North business -- except for the asking the Bluestar part, we can do that while we are North.



 Very true.  This may be where the campaign needs to go once you've acquired soldiers for your war...I'll leave the general direction up to you guys, so long as you give me some lead time to prepare for it.  



> However-- it is yet to be decided *how* we want to present ourselves to Big Blue... Xath the Bard, in particular, should have something to say about this... being a master of persuasion and the like... Justice knows what she thinks-- and she likes to think she's really good at the diplomacy thing, but really wants to know what Xath thinks... (if she has already responded and I have spaced it, I apologize... haven't been on our thread for a while -- if that is the case, Gertie, would you mind refreshing me?).



 I think the pertinent questions have been asked.  Who's going to present first, and what are you going to present (in general terms)?  There's valid strategic reasons behind everything that's been discussed thus far - I think we're at the decision point, now.


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## Laurel (Nov 29, 2004)

I'm not sure if this has been discussed:
Another thing we could possibly 'give' the bluestar is a potential heir of his blood line.  
Wouldn't it be nice for him to have a living heir? Just in case someone finds that phylactory, he gets tired of ruling and just wants to settle down.......
So I ask what if Jaine names on of her current unborn children heir, that same child will then be named heir of Northern lands?  Whenever Jaine dies, the child inherits all those lands?  
Bluestar is free to roam, study, teach, what not but all under the new rulership.  So If/When Bluestar dies one of Jaine's children inherit both kingdoms unifying the ringed continent, with his blue blood reigning?

And yes I relize this is a give/take and a big one at that....all I saw previous was giving him the child, this does not involve literally giving him either child.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Possible alternatives to utilizing the OOC ENWorld Forum:
> 
> 
> (1) Purchase an ENWorld Thread:
> ...



 Me gusta en world.  I think a hosted forum is a cool idea, and would work out to around 6-7 dollars per person if we decided to do that.  It would allow us to thread our discussions a little bit more than we do here (for example, we might have a thread for Army preparations, one for the Bluestar, etc.) rather than one big OOC thread and one big IC thread. 

The Yahoo thing is interesting, but I think that Gmail does that part as well as Yahoo, if not better.  

That being said, this works, and it's free.  If cost is an issue to everyone, we can certainly stick with the current methods.


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## Laurel (Nov 29, 2004)

*when bored at work new tasks for KOA bad....*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (1) Find a way to plant someone in Tain's inner-circle (INTRIGUE!!)
> (2) Do a very dangerous scouting mission to where Tain is living (DANGER!!)
> (3) Send in Xath or Justice as a very special gift for Tain... get him drunk and talking (SCANDAL!!)
> (4) Ask Big Blue (NOT VERY EXCITING!!)
> (5) Capture some of Tain's inner circle and question them (EXCITEMENT!!)



As stated definetly after Caer Albion and the fun that insues there, but cool future thoughts.
#4- nows the time
#5- always fun, and AA has stated enough that there's always the possibility of gettign them to change to our side.

Doing #1-3 could be cool, but it means at least partially splitting up.  It could be run real world as a divided game, people meet at different times and we have no idea what the other groups are up to (Yep more pain and torture for DM) group 2: AA/Kareth; group 1: L'Aurel, Jansten; group 3: Xath, Justice??
reasons for these choices, but I am already starting to delving too deep here.....

Not a big fan of splitting up, though! As for just sitting around while one person tries to be concubine (or Miss Spy, or Mr. Politician) to Tain may not prove the most entertaining for the other five.  If we decide necessary, we should end up in the same building so possibly could help each other and run into each other at times.... okay starting to get too detailed oriented.... but till closer to some resolution from the group at large on current things tabling motion perhaps????


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if this has been discussed:
> Another thing we could possibly 'give' the bluestar is a potential heir of his blood line.
> Wouldn't it be nice for him to have a living heir? Just in case someone finds that phylactory, he gets tired of ruling and just wants to settle down.......
> So I ask what if Jaine names on of her current unborn children heir, that same child will then be named heir of Northern lands? Whenever Jaine dies, the child inherits all those lands?



 That's definitely a possibility, and is in fact the motivation behind allowing AB to marry Jaine, should it come up.  However, he'd probably put some severe stipulations on any such deal - he may not want to have a "goody two-shoes" type running his kingdom after (if) he re-dies.  

Furthermore, this part of the deal as you've presented it gives added incentive to future generations of Phoenix rulers to turn on the North, since they'd stand to inherit all that land if the Bluestar met with an unfortunate end.  They could claim the whole shebang by right of conquest, and by right of blood.  Risky to say the least.  



> Bluestar is free to roam, study, teach, what not but all under the new rulership. So If/When Bluestar dies one of Jaine's children inherit both kingdoms unifying the ringed continent, with his blue blood reigning?
> 
> And yes I relize this is a give/take and a big one at that....all I saw previous was giving him the child, this does not involve literally giving him either child.



 In short, I think the way you'd have to sell it would be to promise the Bluestar a significant portion of the child's rearing and education - otherwise, he's just begging to get whacked and have his kingdom annexed.

All of that said, a living heir is undoubtedly attractive, and there's probably no harm in presenting it exactly as you have.  At worst, he'll say 'no.'   At best, he'll agree, and the door will be open to future conquest.


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## Laurel (Nov 29, 2004)

*Please comment, delete, edit, add, or refute that which is below*

*Exchange order:*
Hopefully introductions first, and any random unforeseen questions that arise from that
We ask him a few questions we plan in advance:
1) about AB’s oath
2) about his phylactery and need want to destroy the 13 blades
We then get down to nitty gritty and ask/tell him to go first, he presents
We take it/match to what we have and take it down
He counter-offers
Etc. as needed

_Letting him go first we see:_
What he is willing to place on the table
How much he is willing to place on the table
What he wants/needs from us

*Exchange possibilities:*
_What we give him--_
1) His freedom from North of the wall
2) Open allowance of Blue Mages and school of wizardry
3) he gets land currently in his control north of the wall and x% of land in west, and x% more of ringed continent.
4) he receives all blades (except Man’s blade which shall remain his phylactery and in our possession till all 13 are destroyed)
5) Jaine proclaims one currently unborn child as heir, that same heir is proclaimed heir of his kingdom. Once war is completely over and peace declared, he gets right to see the child. During those times he can talk, teach, lecture whatever he wishes. The child will be send North with escort every two years for a span of 6 months –he/she is the future guaranteed ruler of Southern Kingdom needs more time there. Upon gaining Southern Throne the ruler is given the option of continuing their trips North.

_What we get from him now--_
1) All 13 blades destroyed as soon as all captured, we hold one in trust
2) He sends undead forces to Isle to fight Tain’s forces and capture two blades- he provides all transportation
3) He sends only (X #) living forces inside Caer Albion to help free the city- we provide initial transportation or buy it from him
4) One other force of (X #) soldiers for temporarily under Jaine’s command and placed near Hywrl- he provides initial transportation, we provide transportation if needed elsewhere

_What we get from him in future—_
1) The Army that was sent North by Tain will be returned to Jaine’s control when she gains throne–undead and living soldiers
2) He recognizes Jaine –or her appointed heir- Ruler of ringed continent
3) All undead must return after war to his lands and must remain in his territory only

_What we give each other—_
1) Free travel through each others territories, law pertain to all in others territories
2) Open rights to practice Blue mage magic and found a school in ringed continent
3) Joining of two nations J


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## Laurel (Nov 29, 2004)

What is/was the project date of next KOA session?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

Big Blue has a living heir that is tied to him in ways that he is not even willing to tell us: Archonus Bluestar.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> That's a really cool idea.  Not sure how to play it out, though.  Hard to have one PC in a completely different place than every one else.  However, if someone can come up with a solution to the real life logistics as well as the in-game ones, I think this is a great idea.




In order for this to work, we would need: a player that has the time to role play this out during off times and someone who is not *in* the circle to do it.

We could write up a new character for the mission, though.  There's got to be someone in Hyrwl that could be trained to do something like this... OR, we could hire one of the Bounty Huntresses to do it... or one of the ninjas... say Tara?

So, it would require no actual splitting up of the group.


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## Laurel (Nov 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Big Blue has a living heir that is tied to him in ways that he is not even willing to tell us: Archonus Bluestar.



So that's a no vote for the kid as heir to both offer?

So far only AB has been unwilling to discuss the oath... possible reason to bring it up with old blue and see if we get more information on it.

AB obviously has issues with him, and if he is all powerful he knows that.  Plus if he plans to sit the throne forever, he has to have AB keep having children or he's out that heir line, back to square one.
The child could be concidered a pawn.  Someone in ol' blues eyes he can sway to his ways.  Growing up in a peaceful kingdom that doesn't see grandpa as evil and visiting the heir regularly would all encourage Big Blue to accept this.
And AB is heir currently, but he can be killed.  The blood continues in AA, and the unborn kids.  Lines he has to no matter what watch for invasion from.
This would just make it better for him- no little ones coming to kill him, and someone who he can possibly mold to his side.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> What is/was the project date of next KOA session?



 I believe we're out for this weekend for KoA.  We're down 2.  The next time we can play is thus Dec. 10-11-12, I think.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So that's a no vote for the kid as heir to both offer?




I don't think offering him a different heir will do any good... tying the lines of the phoenix kingdom and big blue's line may be appealing... but, simply offering him a different, living heir doesn't do any good-- he already has one, AB.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

I think that - if Jaine will do it - tying the lines through marriage is an excellent and diplomatic option... however, that is entirely up to Jaine.

Before we can go one, we need to determine if she is willing to do that... which means the DM needs to fill us in.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Yeah - she is.  She doesn't want you to openly offer it, though.  If it comes down to it, she'll suck it up for the diplomatic benefits, but she's not eager.  

I think I posted something to that effect on this thread or the last one.


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## Laurel (Nov 29, 2004)

So Jaine marries AB gives kid right to both thrones. If both alive but blue dead, Jaine & AB both rule then kid rules both lands? If Jaine dies AB becomes full king of Pheonix kingdom?  Kid and it's line get rights to north and rule south?
It's the same issues and same questions.

My option was cutting all that and just going to the kid.
I wasn't saying he will agree, as most of our wants/needs/suggestions he may not agree to or simply twist to his way.

Just something we can offer without having Jaine give up thoughts of happiness, love ever after and all that such. If they marry it is not simply political, her kid still inherits as it would if they got married. Jaine, our Queen, just stays out of being a bargining chip.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So far only AB has been unwilling to discuss the oath... possible reason to bring it up with old blue and see if we get more information on it.



Definitely useful.  At worst, he won't tell you anything, and you'll still be confused.  At best, you'll learn something.  



> AB obviously has issues with him, and if he is all powerful he knows that. Plus if he plans to sit the throne forever, he has to have AB keep having children or he's out that heir line, back to square one.



 Yes.  AB's virility is more than likely very important.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> In order for this to work, we would need: a player that has the time to role play this out during off times and someone who is not *in* the circle to do it.
> 
> We could write up a new character for the mission, though.  There's got to be someone in Hyrwl that could be trained to do something like this... OR, we could hire one of the Bounty Huntresses to do it... or one of the ninjas... say Tara?
> 
> So, it would require no actual splitting up of the group.



 I think this is a great idea, particularly as it may allow the KoA plot to advance (at least a little) without letting members of the circle pull too far ahead of one another.  Maybe we could set it up as a side game with less strict attendance requirements?  Different characters?  

If everyone is ok with this, just let me know who has the time and interest.  What I don't want to do is have someone upset because they're being left out.  So, let me know if you have a problem with it, or if you think it's a marvelous idea...and then secondarily if you want a piece of the action.  I will note: if I am to run such a side game, there will be essentially no attendance rules.  Play it when we have time, etc.

  Let me know!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Let me know!




I have the time and the location to make this very do-able!


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So Jaine marries AB gives kid right to both thrones. If both alive but blue dead, Jaine & AB both rule then kid rules both lands?



Correct.



> If Jaine dies AB becomes full king of Pheonix kingdom? Kid and it's line get rights to north and rule south?



 Probably yes, but it's also possible that the throne would skip AB (since his claims of not being an Arrendorr put his parentage in question) and go right to the infant.  




> My option was cutting all that and just going to the kid.
> I wasn't saying he will agree, as most of our wants/needs/suggestions he may not agree to or simply twist to his way.



 A valiant effort.   However, I think that in order to make this lesser offer valuable enough to seem distinct from the options discussed above, you'd have to do something like what we already decided we don't want to do - give him a child of his line outright.



> Just something we can offer without having Jaine give up thoughts of happiness, love ever after and all that such. If they marry it is not simply political, her kid still inherits as it would if they got married. Jaine, our Queen, just stays out of being a bargining chip.



It may not have been clear, but Jaine volunteers to be considered a bargaining chip - she is aware of her precarious position, and is willing to use herself as a lever to ensure the success of her rebellion and thus her fledgling kingdom.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

> I have the time and the location to make this very do-able!



Liz is in, pending group approval. Anybody else?


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

*Somebody Proofread this for me.*

It can't be any longer, but feel free to cut where it needs to be cut (if it needs to be). 

Please check grammar, spelling, phrasing, consistency, and clarity of thought. 

Thank you so much!

I might even make it worth bonus XP - just about ready to submit this puppy to Dungeon....want to make sure it's clean before it goes.


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## Archon (Nov 29, 2004)

*"They were seperated at birth..."*

i too can be part of thhis side game.and ooc, i think giving up the child would be cool and a big bargaining chip, ic Archon would flip out.
my input.
peice,
mik


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## Xath (Nov 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Liz is in, pending group approval. Anybody else?





I'm finished with all of my major projects for the semester, so barring finals...I have no life.


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## Xath (Nov 29, 2004)

I think directly giving up a child is a decision that has to be made by Archon and Jaine.  And I don't think either would agree.  Jaine's willing to give herself up, but her children?  And Archon would definitely go berserk.


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## The_Universe (Nov 29, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i too can be part of thhis side game.and ooc, i think giving up the child would be cool and a big bargaining chip, ic Archon would flip out.
> my input.
> peice,
> mik



 Which would be less IC flip outtage?  Giving up one of the twins entirely, or having Jaine marry AB with one of the twins being a secret?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Which would be less IC flip outtage?  Giving up one of the twins entirely, or having Jaine marry AB with one of the twins being a secret?



 Giving him the kid is not an offer that will entice him, though.  As I said earlier, he has Archonus Bluestar to serve as his living heir... or, if Big Blue decides that AB isn't enough, his line is still continuing to this day.  

So, finding one on his own accord isn't impossible.  In fact, I bet it'd be pretty easy.  And, finally, if he really wanted to, he could Transfer Birth into his woman and have a bouncing baby that way... it wouldn't be *his,* but it would be *theirs.*

The thing that makes the AB/Jaine marriage appealing to the Bluestar is, most likely, the tying of the lines.


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## Laurel (Nov 30, 2004)

*Yea the ability to reach my computer finally!*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Giving him the kid is not an offer that will entice him, though. As I said earlier, he has Archonus Bluestar to serve as his living heir... or, if Big Blue decides that AB isn't enough, his line is still continuing to this day.
> 
> So, finding one on his own accord isn't impossible. In fact, I bet it'd be pretty easy. And, finally, if he really wanted to, he could Transfer Birth into his woman and have a bouncing baby that way... it wouldn't be *his,* but it would be *theirs.*
> 
> The thing that makes the AB/Jaine marriage appealing to the Bluestar is, most likely, the tying of the lines.



The lines are already tied. There are already two children.

IC Jaine and AA may flip, but if Jaine and AB are getting married essential they are just putting at least one child up to the same deal. Once they are gone however soon that may be.

So far as I know transfer birth is something we came up with, and only we know about.

About the 'his line is still continuing to this day,' yes, it is and by offering him a partial deal with the kid he gets hands on dealings with it. Making sure we aren't raising the kid to hate him and in the future go after and try to kill him. A way to have to look over his shoulder all the time.

But anyways.....


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## Laurel (Nov 30, 2004)

By Jaine marrying AB, the Bluestar get control over Jaine. If Jaine falls in love with AB (very likely) and he for her, the bluestar has a huge barganing chip with the rulers of our kingdom. AB still under oath and all, his children inherit as well, ol' blue will know this. Of what we could offer him this is the most extreme and the best from his vantage. 

By offering joint custody of one child- no he doesn't get the greatest, but it also clearly states what the joint custody is. Both sides get something here..... It is an intermetiate before offering our queen (and thus country) tied and bound to him.

Yes she may be offering herself up for country and all, but as she is queen and ruler what she binds herself to she binds the rulership, heirs, and future of the kingdom to as well.

With all these dealing we should not just throw the most extreme deal on the table... we are barganing. Just like we get 60% of cost for rings, the purchaser doesn't start by saying they will pay full price and the seller doesn't start by agreeing to the first bid the purchaser offers.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 30, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The lines are already tied. There are already two children.




DNA isn't as important as marriage is in a world like this, though... you have to keep that in mind.  A formal marriage ties the lines more than simply two children ever could.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 30, 2004)

Also remember: God told us that Jaine was going to die.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 30, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> By Jaine marrying AB, the Bluestar get control over Jaine. If Jaine falls in love with AB (very likely) and he for her, the bluestar has a huge barganing chip with the rulers of our kingdom. AB still under oath and all, his children inherit as well, ol' blue will know this. Of what we could offer him this is the most extreme and the best from his vantage.
> 
> By offering joint custody of one child- no he doesn't get the greatest, but it also clearly states what the joint custody is. Both sides get something here..... It is an intermetiate before offering our queen (and thus country) tied and bound to him.
> 
> ...



 We're not simply throwing the most extreme deal on the table.  If we can get away with it, I would have him not get a child or Jaine... he can get some land, freedom, and Tains ultimate demise... as well as a kingdom that isn't so hostile toward him.

And, in these dealings, we have to think about what he will actually _want_.  He has living heirs... if he wants to rear a child, he can get a child... and one that is of his bloodline.  So, it seems to offer him one of the children outright (which, is a pretty extreme thing in and of itself beings that the childs *real* father is going to be present when the offering occurs) seems to be giving him something that he already has one of and could have more of if he desired.  

So, we can certainly use it as a chip with which to negotiate... but, I just don't think he'll be very keen.


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## The_Universe (Nov 30, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The lines are already tied. There are already two children.



 Yes there are, but neither are tied to the Bluestar in as strong a way as AB. Even if AB and Jaine were to marry, the twins are AA's, not AB's (even if we want the peasantry to believe that that is not the case). Thus, if AB's oath applies to his children, the twins are exempt, since they are not his children. 

However, if Jaine miraculously survives the birth (definitely unlikely - Commune said she was a goner) any _future _children could be tied up in the oath thing, if it even reaches that far, which you do not know.

I hope that clarifies things, a bit!  



			
				Queen_Doppelpoppolis said:
			
		

> DNA isn't as important as marriage is in a world like this, though... you have to keep that in mind. A formal marriage ties the lines more than simply two children ever could.



 That's essentially the crux of it. Although The Bluestar may lay some claim to the children of Archonus Arendorr, the claim is certain to be a weak one. Archonus Bluestar's children may be a different story altogether. And, politically, the various claims to each others' thrones are marriage-dependent, not booty-dependent. 



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> By offering joint custody of one child- no he doesn't get the greatest, but it also clearly states what the joint custody is. Both sides get something here..... It is an intermetiate before offering our queen (and thus country) tied and bound to him.



 Just remember that AB is probably not much more bound than AA, in terms of severity. So, AB probably has as much leeway as AA does in his Oath to Jaine.  As a result, he can be trusted not to betray the Bluestar's interest, but as experience has taught, he can still do a lot of stuff that he may not like.  While there's no denying that having AB in the life of the Queen's children will result in the Bluestar having some influence on them, it's not tantamount to handing them to him on a silver platter.


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## The_Universe (Nov 30, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Also remember: God told us that Jaine was going to die.



 Yep -she's toast.  She might be able to be "risen" after it's all over, but that's about it.


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## The_Universe (Nov 30, 2004)

On a completely unrelated note, I gave Dungeon my first draft submission for an article, last night. Wish me luck!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Yep -she's toast.  She might be able to be "risen" after it's all over, but that's about it.



 We need to find out if Jaine would actually come back if she did die...

Sheesh, how did we forget to ask *that*?!

... can we still ask in the, now dead, Gmail convo?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> On a completely unrelated note, I gave Dungeon my first draft submission for an article, last night. Wish me luck!



 YAY FOR KENNON!


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## The_Universe (Nov 30, 2004)

> We need to find out if Jaine would actually come back if she did die...
> 
> Sheesh, how did we forget to ask *that*?!
> 
> ... can we still ask in the, now dead, Gmail convo?



She says you should try. She may decide not to come back at that moment, but right now, she thinks she'd give it a whirl.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> She says you should try. She may decide not to come back at that moment, but right now, she thinks she'd give it a whirl.



 Cool beans.

I'm sure everyone on the group is ready for hot girl-on-girl action!!

Huzzah for "Hot Lesbian French Kiss of Life" spell!!


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## The_Universe (Nov 30, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Cool beans.
> 
> I'm sure everyone on the group is ready for hot girl-on-girl action!!
> 
> Huzzah for "Hot Lesbian French Kiss of Life" spell!!



 I think my feelings for this comment can only be described with an acronym: ROFL.  

You up for this, Xath?


----------



## Archon (Nov 30, 2004)

*Lesbian Succubi?*

Jaine and Xath making out? Damn, that's Archon's dream come true.


----------



## Xath (Nov 30, 2004)

I would like to point out that Xath hasn't told anyone that she thinks she has the ability to bring people back from the dead as long as she gets there soon enough.  She might offer her services to Jaine personally, but she doesn't want to broadcast around that she can do something considered to be an extremely heinous act by most of the kingdom.  It's not like she learned how to do it out of a book, she's a spontaneous spellcaster.  So she's not even sure it will work.


----------



## The_Universe (Nov 30, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I would like to point out that Xath hasn't told anyone that she thinks she has the ability to bring people back from the dead as long as she gets there soon enough.  She might offer her services to Jaine personally, but she doesn't want to broadcast around that she can do something considered to be an extremely heinous act by most of the kingdom.  It's not like she learned how to do it out of a book, she's a spontaneous spellcaster.  So she's not even sure it will work.



 Nonetheless, this is the OOC thread, and we all know OOC.  So, OOC, it can be suggested, particularly in the dead time between games.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 30, 2004)

If Xath has the slightest feeling that she would be able to do this, I would think she would tell us, anyway.  She may not be very fond of Jaine... but, she is the Queen and Xath knows that Jaine is going to die in childbirth... 

However, if Xath chooses to withhold the information, that's your choice.


----------



## Laurel (Nov 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> On a completely unrelated note, I gave Dungeon my first draft submission for an article, last night. Wish me luck!



 Congrats, good luck and best wishes!


----------



## Laurel (Nov 30, 2004)

*What would pay to see two female over 20 Cha. kissing?*

On Xath and Queen making out.... uh make sure there's an audiance and charge a lot for the general public viewing! 

No but seriously, it's up to Gertie, but no reason for Xath to run around saying she thinks she has some power but isn't sure of consquences, limitations, etc. And all magic has consequences, Xath knows what lies on the other side and the choice Jaine will have. No reason to get everyones hopes up and then find out it doesn't work or asks too much of Xath or what not. 
If we ask, and Jaine says she might want to come back, Xath can tell her or just file it away for that fateful day. It is reasonable that even without Xath's ability we know the power to bring people back is out there and she is our queen so we can ask her. So far though we have only seen it work if they come back in different bodies, so she's got to be okay with that possibility as well. 
It shouldn't be a big deal no matter what, and not something IC we need to know till it happens or gets used. Not the first time and most likely won't be the last a special power shows up at a crutial time, it's not something that people go around saying 'hey look what I can do'.

It's just Gertie for Xath IC and RP decision (but knowing what we know OOC and IC Gertie should be ready to make it for Xath)


----------



## Xath (Nov 30, 2004)

I'm not saying she _won't_ say, the opportunity just hasn't come up yet.  

...Uh...hey guys....I think that if I make out with the dead, I can bring them back to life.  L'aurel...I didn't use it on you because....you're not cool enough.  So...yeah...


----------



## Laurel (Nov 30, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> ...Uh...hey guys....I think that if I make out with the dead, I can bring them back to life. L'aurel...I didn't use it on you because....you're not cool enough. So...yeah...



 :_(   tear. sniffle.... "fine then I hate you to and don't want to be your friend anymore, meany!"


----------



## Laurel (Nov 30, 2004)

double post- it booted me off, but apparently got it anyways :-(


----------



## The_Universe (Nov 30, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I'm not saying she _won't_ say, the opportunity just hasn't come up yet.
> 
> ...Uh...hey guys....I think that if I make out with the dead, I can bring them back to life.  L'aurel...I didn't use it on you because....you're not cool enough.  So...yeah...



 Well, to be fair, you didn't use it on L'Aurel because you lacked the capability at the time.  

Or maybe it was because she wasn't as hot back then?  

Jeez you're shallow!


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 1, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> It shouldn't be a big deal no matter what, and not something IC we need to know till it happens or gets used. Not the first time and most likely won't be the last a special power shows up at a crutial time, it's not something that people go around saying 'hey look what I can do'.



 Exactly right. 

Now, I know there's more stuff to talk about and/or decide.  Let's get to it.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Exactly right.
> 
> Now, I know there's more stuff to talk about and/or decide.  Let's get to it.



 I will be out for most of the day.  Wednesdays + Liz = Bad for boards.

However, I will say that a good starting point is what Kat posted earlier so far as our options of what to give/what to take and the like.  Everyone needs to take a look at it in detail (attached) - it is an excellent starting point.  

Print it out, read it, and make corrections that you feel necessary.  I will be doing the same this afternoon during my classes and posting what I think needs to be altered/added/deleted.

One everyone has had their say in that, we work up our formal proposal to take North.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 1, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I will be out for most of the day. Wednesdays + Liz = Bad for boards.
> 
> However, I will say that a good starting point is what Kat posted earlier so far as our options of what to give/what to take and the like. Everyone needs to take a look at it in detail (attached) - it is an excellent starting point.
> 
> ...



Is Janesten involved with this part?  Or is the circle doign this then showing him the final, so he won't be surprised at what the pheonix kingdom is offering?


----------



## Laurel (Dec 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think this is a great idea, particularly as it may allow the KoA plot to advance (at least a little) without letting members of the circle pull too far ahead of one another. Maybe we could set it up as a side game with less strict attendance requirements? Different characters?
> 
> If everyone is ok with this, just let me know who has the time and interest. What I don't want to do is have someone upset because they're being left out. So, let me know if you have a problem with it, or if you think it's a marvelous idea...and then secondarily if you want a piece of the action. I will note: if I am to run such a side game, there will be essentially no attendance rules. Play it when we have time, etc.
> 
> Let me know!



I am willing, but as I am normally one of the ones with time issues not likely that I will be able to play   But it sounds cool, and could be a great plot/side adventure quest.
So long as everyone remembers which PC's knows what IC-- and Kennon can tell us later what was able to be passed on, or IC the charcter's can pass on after their adventure.
Gives fun to those not able to make it also 
I know you said no attendance rules, but does that mean if just one person can play you will, or is it a two person rule (opposite our normal KOA rule)?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 1, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Is Janesten involved with this part?  Or is the circle doign this then showing him the final, so he won't be surprised at what the pheonix kingdom is offering?



 It's up to you guys.  Include or exclude Jansten to the degree that you would prefer.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 1, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Is Janesten involved with this part?  Or is the circle doign this then showing him the final, so he won't be surprised at what the pheonix kingdom is offering?



 He should know what we are offering.  His input could be valuable in determining what would or would not influence Big Blue.  However, I would say he is not an essential part of it.

Justice still doesn't think he should be there for the negotiations based on the Risk = Probability * Impact theory.  But, she has bowed to the groups wishes on that one.

Which brings me to another question for people: if Big Blue finds out about Jansten, how do we want to handle that?  What is our excuse?  What is our backup excuse for that excuse? etc, etc.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 1, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> He should know what we are offering. His input could be valuable in determining what would or would not influence Big Blue. However, I would say he is not an essential part of it.
> 
> Justice still doesn't think he should be there for the negotiations based on the Risk = Probability * Impact theory. But, she has bowed to the groups wishes on that one.
> 
> Which brings me to another question for people: if Big Blue finds out about Jansten, how do we want to handle that? What is our excuse? What is our backup excuse for that excuse? etc, etc.



He will most likely try to strike a deal with Jansten as well.  If he is all powerful and already knows he hasn't done anything yet to them......

We tell him the truth, not everything though!  Jansten arrived in Hywrl not long ago.  He seemed to know Archonus Bluestar, and he was willing to stay around and help.  So not entirely trusting anyone from the Northern areas we bring him along to keep better whatch over him, and get to knowhim better till this deal is struck.  
If he questions specifically about Janesten's rebellion: We have not talked to any of them, nor agreed to anything.  Are dealing here and now are to him and to him alone.  We will not break any oath we give.  
--basically hedge it.  Jansten can rat himself out if he wants, and stike whatever deal he wants for his group.  We stay out of all that for now.--


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 1, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I am willing, but as I am normally one of the ones with time issues not likely that I will be able to play  But it sounds cool, and could be a great plot/side adventure quest.
> So long as everyone remembers which PC's knows what IC-- and Kennon can tell us later what was able to be passed on, or IC the charcter's can pass on after their adventure.
> Gives fun to those not able to make it also
> I know you said no attendance rules, but does that mean if just one person can play you will, or is it a two person rule (opposite our normal KOA rule)?



It would be a "whenever I feel like it" rule. However, most of the time, I prefer at least 2. I don't have anything written yet, but if someone does want to infiltrate Tain's inner circle, I would suggest that such a feet will not be easy, and will more than likely require some heavy espionage and a sparkling plan. 

Since it is only ancillary to the adventures of the Circle of the Phoenix, feel free to start a discussion elsewhere on the boards (probably just a different OOC thread) or on Gmail, and I can answer questions about what any potential spies would know.

EDIT: Assume that any group is associated with Jaine's phoenix kingdom, and would be reporting to her or her designates spymaster.  So, there's an avenue for anything you find out IC in a potential side game reaching you IC in the main game.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 1, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Which brings me to another question for people: if Big Blue finds out about Jansten, how do we want to handle that? What is our excuse? What is our backup excuse for that excuse? etc, etc.



Feign shock? "What!? A Rebel! Jansten, you are going to get such a spanking!"


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 1, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We tell him the truth, not everything though! Jansten arrived in Hywrl not long ago. He seemed to know Archonus Bluestar, and he was willing to stay around and help. So not entirely trusting anyone from the Northern areas we bring him along to keep better whatch over him, and get to knowhim better till this deal is struck.
> If he questions specifically about Janesten's rebellion: We have not talked to any of them, nor agreed to anything. Are dealing here and now are to him and to him alone. We will not break any oath we give.
> --basically hedge it. Jansten can rat himself out if he wants, and stike whatever deal he wants for his group. We stay out of all that for now.--



Perfect.


----------



## Archon (Dec 1, 2004)

*spies like us*

hey guys, i started a thread dedicated to the possible/future side game. 
here's the link, i hope it works.
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1883879#post1883879


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 1, 2004)

Kat - can you post the details of the spiritblades and their locations, here?  Or, if you've already got it posted elsewhere electronically, can you shoot me a link?  

THANKS!


----------



## Laurel (Dec 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Kat - can you post the details of the spiritblades and their locations, here? Or, if you've already got it posted elsewhere electronically, can you shoot me a link?
> 
> THANKS!



Gertie has been great and has it on the KOA website under resources--
http://members.cox.net/dungeonsanddragons/Resources.htm
Then just click on the 'Locations of the Spirit Blades' or scroll to the bottom of the page.

Might be easier to keep looking there then posting the attachment everytime we need to look it over   Eventually, I will be posting & printing another copy with an added column for who has it now. Keeping it simple with just: Tain/Bluestar/Jaine/?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 1, 2004)

That works for me.  Thanks!


----------



## Laurel (Dec 2, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think this is a great idea, particularly as it may allow the KoA plot to advance (at least a little) without letting members of the circle pull too far ahead of one another. Maybe we could set it up as a side game with less strict attendance requirements? Different characters?
> 
> If everyone is ok with this, just let me know who has the time and interest. What I don't want to do is have someone upset because they're being left out. So, let me know if you have a problem with it, or if you think it's a marvelous idea...and then secondarily if you want a piece of the action. I will note: if I am to run such a side game, there will be essentially no attendance rules. Play it when we have time, etc.
> 
> Let me know!



Can you send out an e-mail outlining this general idea, so JC, Greg, and if someone I am delusional about didn't respond yeah or nay yet, can read and respond that we know for sure it's cool by all 
Thanks!


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 2, 2004)

Sure.  Of course, there's still a lot of discussion that can be had for the main game.   Let's get this taken care of!  

Speaking of the main game, it seems Mik will have CQ on Saturday, Dec. 11.  That means that, in order to play, we either need to go on Friday the 10th (after work), or Sunday the 12th (in the early afternoon).  Let me know what you all think - and pass the message along to those that need it.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 2, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Sure. Of course, there's still a lot of discussion that can be had for the main game.  Let's get this taken care of!
> 
> Speaking of the main game, it seems Mik will have CQ on Saturday, Dec. 11. That means that, in order to play, we either need to go on Friday the 10th (after work), or Sunday the 12th (in the early afternoon). Let me know what you all think - and pass the message along to those that need it.



Friday I think we are still all clear.
Sunday couldn't start till one and could only go latest till 7pm for greg and I. (I know you said early afternoon, but just wanted to let you know specific times we are out)

As for discussion on main KOA, did anyone look at the attachment list- comments, ideas, thoughts, reviews for the contract?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 2, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Friday I think we are still all clear.
> Sunday couldn't start till one and could only go latest till 7pm for greg and I. (I know you said early afternoon, but just wanted to let you know specific times we are out)
> 
> As for discussion on main KOA, did anyone look at the attachment list- comments, ideas, thoughts, reviews for the contract?



 How does friday look for everyone else?  I think we can pull a slightly longer game on friday night than we can on sunday afternoon....

As for the list, I have looked at it, but I have already commented at one point or another on most of the ideas therein.  At this point, it's up to you guys to decide what to do.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 2, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> How does friday look for everyone else?  I think we can pull a slightly longer game on friday night than we can on sunday afternoon....
> 
> As for the list, I have looked at it, but I have already commented at one point or another on most of the ideas therein.  At this point, it's up to you guys to decide what to do.



 Friday is best.  At that point, I am starting to get to finals crunch time... so, want to have the Sunday before classes to study, write, and all that jazz.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 2, 2004)

Friday the 10th at 6:30 work for everybody?


----------



## Xath (Dec 2, 2004)

Yup.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I will be out for most of the day.  Wednesdays + Liz = Bad for boards.
> 
> However, I will say that a good starting point is what Kat posted earlier so far as our options of what to give/what to take and the like.  Everyone needs to take a look at it in detail (attached) - it is an excellent starting point.
> 
> ...




Bumping this back up so that people can add/delete what they will!  

But, it won't let me re-attach the document... but, I think we need to concentrate on the modifications our characters would want to make... the spies this is cool... but, we need to get the planning done for the actual game.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 3, 2004)

I laid it out, so not much for me to say on the orginial attachement.... others?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 3, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I laid it out, so not much for me to say on the orginial attachement.... others?



 I'll post my additions an the like this evening.  

Would really like to hear what Mik, Gertie, and Jeremiah have to say, though.  It's important we have everybody's input here.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 5, 2004)

Still waiting on comments for Kat/Liz's idea.  Let them know _now _if something needs to change - and if so, what.  The plan is to play on friday of this week, so the discussion needs to get wrapped up ASAP - we'll begin with you crossing the wall into the North, next time, so be ready for it.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 7, 2004)

Also, Dwarven Sylvanus needs a name that's not "Dwarven Sylvanus."  Any ideas?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, Dwarven Sylvanus needs a name that's not "Dwarven Sylvanus."  Any ideas?



 Dwarf-ville, Dwarf-ton, Dwarf-tropolis.  

Ragnarok
Norse prophecy of destruction, I believe.

Heimdall
Norse god... means The Watcher

Berling:
Famous Dwarf in Norse myth.  He and three other dwarves loved a female goddess that loved god.  So, they made her a golden bracelet and, in turn, she spent one everything with each dwarf on earth, I believe..

Kvasir (Probably my favorite):
Kvasir was a lesser Norse god that was killed by two brother dwarves.  His blood was mixed with honey and stored in jars.  It then fermented and created a very strong alcohol.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 7, 2004)

My current idea: 

Dwarven Sylvanus is _*Khaz* *Barok*, _The Shield of the North.

Initially a small mining colony settled by the dwarves with the tacit agreement of the Alder who controlled the forest above, *Shar Barok* (hard to translate, but essentially, "Iron of the North") was a major source of iron and copper for all of the dwarven clanholds.  

It operated as such for thousands of years, and was only militarized to become *Khaz Barok *during the War of the Damned.  Some of the deepest mines were closed off, while others were the sites of uncounted battles between the growing city's stalwart defenders and the minions of the Bluestar.

The city helds its own until Quarion the Great finished his Wall, and then settled into a new life as a military outpost first, and a mine second.  Khaz Barok stood for a thousand years, with nothing but it's outermost borders touched by war.  It is said the Bluestar tried everything to remove them, but that the noble Ancestors of the Northshield clan would intervene on their behalf.  Though the aquifer that gave them water was poisoned, crytal clear water would run from their fountains.  Though the earth would shake their tunnels and warrens, the old arches would hold.  

For 900 years the Clanholds were untouched.  

And then the end came, fire and death and horror in a week of disaster.  None now alive know how, exactly, Khaz Barok fell.  But fall, it did...though its tunnels were sealed, and the strange hole in the deathward repaired, it remains a barren place infested by the unquiet dead.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 7, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Dwarf-ville, Dwarf-ton, Dwarf-tropolis.
> 
> Ragnarok
> 
> ...



 HAh!  Dwarftropolis.  That's hilarious.  

I like the norse sounding names - perhaps I will modify my current idea, a bit....


----------



## Laurel (Dec 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, Dwarven Sylvanus needs a name that's not "Dwarven Sylvanus." Any ideas?



Is this the place where Xath's family bit the dust?

There is a thanesport for Thane.  There's Quarion's Rest for Quarion.  There's the Amastatian temples for the Amastatia.  There's the Jade Forest academy for Zoa Jade (sp?).
What about it got renamed for Gawyn? --However you spell the name of the dwarf that is undead in the North cause he was a friend of the bluestar before he went all evil.--


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Is this the place where Xath's family bit the dust?
> 
> There is a thanesport for Thane.  There's Quarion's Rest for Quarion.  There's the Amastatian temples for the Amastatia.  There's the Jade Forest academy for Zoa Jade (sp?).
> What about it got renamed for Gawyn? --However you spell the name of the dwarf that is undead in the North cause he was a friend of the bluestar before he went all evil.--



 Zao Jade...

It would be cool to re-name the town for Gawyn after Gawyn finally gets to rest...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 7, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Zao Jade...
> 
> It would be cool to re-name the town for Gawyn after Gawyn finally gets to rest...



 Additionally, no one knows *why* Thanesport is named Thanesport... The Apecto's first name has been lost to the ages...


----------



## Laurel (Dec 7, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Additionally, no one knows *why* Thanesport is named Thanesport... The Apecto's first name has been lost to the ages...



Same deal with Gawyn being un-dead though, IC we didn't know it till recently.

Yes, maybe IC we don't know this, but OOC we do know.  Just like IC we may not know that the jade forest academy is for hero Jade, but OOC we do know it.  The city would have gotten it's name when the wall was errected a thousand or so years ago.  Just giving a suggestion I thought could work.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Didn't know.
> 
> Same deal with Gawyn being un-dead though.



 Which is why I thought it would be cool to re-name it after the war is won and Gawyn is truly resting.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 7, 2004)

Thunderheartropolis?


----------



## Archon (Dec 7, 2004)

*Renamage*

or Just name it "Thunder Heart" or "Tor Mordain" er something.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 8, 2004)

Well, for right now, I'm going to stick with Khaz Barok.   There are a lot more dwarven settlements, and I have some of the suggested names tagged for other settlements. 

Anyway, there's much to do in the next couple of days.  As far as I know, we're still planning to play on *Friday* gathering at the Bauman household at 6:30, for a 7 (or earlier) start time for playing.  Bring your supper with you, and we'll plunge into the game as soon as everyone is ready. 

So, with that in mind, if we want to get a mix of combat and RP shoved into the game, lets get some of the inner-circle discussions as decided as possible, so that the murdering can take place.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 8, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Zao Jade...
> 
> It would be cool to re-name the town for Gawyn after Gawyn finally gets to rest...



 Gawyn was the sexist Thunderheart that used to be the Dwarven Councilor, before Arfin took the job.  

*Gyan Thunderheart* is the ancient hero who remains in the service of the Bluestar due to some kind of twisted undeath.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 8, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I'll post my additions an the like this evening.
> Would really like to hear what Mik, Gertie, and Jeremiah have to say, though. It's important we have everybody's input here.



Everyone look it over? Anyone have time?.... anything?  
We have three days and counting fast


----------



## Laurel (Dec 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Gawyn was the sexist Thunderheart that used to be the Dwarven Councilor, before Arfin took the job.
> *Gyan Thunderheart* is the ancient hero who remains in the service of the Bluestar due to some kind of twisted undeath.



Sorry I think I started this inaccuracy  Hey, they are all short, squat and hairy, so easy to mix them up... even the girl vs. boy identities.




by the way just kidding with those last remarks


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 8, 2004)

*Kat did it better than I did.  Ignore this post.*

sdjflas


----------



## Laurel (Dec 8, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> *"Exchange order:*
> Hopefully introductions first, and any random unforeseen questions that arise from that
> We ask him a few questions we plan in advance:
> 1) about AB’s oath
> ...


----------



## Archon (Dec 8, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Sorry I think I started this inaccuracy  Hey, they are all short, squat and hairy, so easy to mix them up... even the girl vs. boy identities.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




don't be sorry, it's true. 
anyway, I'M behind you guys 100% even if Archon has his reservations. And i think we should do ok at the negotiations. 
Quick Q though, Are we going fully armed?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 8, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> don't be sorry, it's true.
> anyway, I'M behind you guys 100% even if Archon has his reservations. And i think we should do ok at the negotiations.
> Quick Q though, Are we going fully armed?



 It can't hurt to go armed (in a tactical sense).  At worst, they'll tell you to disarm in presence of Ol' Blue - at best, you'll be able to carry your weapons to the table, whether figurative or liberal.  

Diplomatically, going unarmed displays a certain amount of trust, as well as implying a certain confidence in your own abilities (sans equipment).


----------



## Archon (Dec 8, 2004)

Archon, and i'm sure Kaereth, has no problem with going in unarmed or even de-magicified.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It can't hurt to go armed (in a tactical sense).  At worst, they'll tell you to disarm in presence of Ol' Blue - at best, you'll be able to carry your weapons to the table, whether figurative or liberal.
> 
> Diplomatically, going unarmed displays a certain amount of trust, as well as implying a certain confidence in your own abilities (sans equipment).



 It's meta... but, armed or unarmed - it doesn't matter.  As Kennon has said a bunch of times, Big Blue can kick out butts regardless of weaponry.  He a plot device, not a character with stats.  For the sake of the story, he needs to live... and so, if we fought him now, we'd probably die...

So, I say we go in unarmed.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 8, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> It's meta... but, armed or unarmed - it doesn't matter.  As Kennon has said a bunch of times, Big Blue can kick out butts regardless of weaponry.  He a plot device, not a character with stats.  For the sake of the story, he needs to live... and so, if we fought him now, we'd probably die...
> 
> So, I say we go in unarmed.



 Well, if you plan to attack him, just let me know, and I **will** go to the effort of giving him the gift of stats.  But he's got a ton of levels, and he's got a Lich template...and I have to pick spells, etc....

Just give me time, and I'll make a go of it.  

However, I will reiterate (as Liz so eloquently suggested) that you probably don't want to attack him.  But - I didn't think staying in Oceanus was a good idea, and look where *that *went.


----------



## Archon (Dec 8, 2004)

you might want to write him up.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 9, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> you might want to write him up.



 A word to the wise - 

A preliminary stat block sets his CR at 28.  And he's got minions.  

Ask and ye shall recieve.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 9, 2004)

Look how well Oceanus and Hywrl turned out.... Definitely lets go fully armed, and if he disagrees with absolutely anything we say we- attack time!  Write him up! 

Just kidding 

I don't think we should go armed to the teeth, but we can make a deal of getting close then putting what few weapons we carry into a bag of holding or something even just make a pile.  Instead of just showing up without stuff.  Let him see us putting it down.  Then just in case he or one of the other four (?) negotiators has arms he gets the hint.

As people have said he knows he can kill us quite easily, and I think we know that as well.  Plus he will have others there, and I'm sure he's not bringing all zero level undead commoners. Since we know AB is one of those attending.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 9, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> you might want to write him up.



 If Archonus attacks the Bluestar, he will be making a HUGE mistake.

With a wisdom that high, I do not think he would be doing something so completely ridiculous.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 9, 2004)

For metagame reasons, you should plan on including Jansten in the negotiations.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 9, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Look how well Oceanus and Hywrl turned out.... Definitely lets go fully armed, and if he disagrees with absolutely anything we say we- attack time!  Write him up!
> 
> Just kidding
> 
> ...



 Exactly.  But now he'll have stats, just in case.


----------



## Archon (Dec 9, 2004)

*Can i get a box for that?*

i never said Archon would attack him, but given Archon's track record i'd rather be safe then sorry. 
Archon knows the Bluestar is powerful, but no one is invincible. And to be honest, Archon is well groomed for taking out mages. To be honest Archon should probably be left behind. As far as Archon's wisdom is concerned, he is very intuitve and strong willed, but unfortunately he is also very emotional(despite his apparent "lack" of emotions), which makes him somewhat of a loose cannon.
anyway, I will put extra effort into keeping Archon on a leash, but if he thinks the Circle is in danger he will act accordingly.
heh, this should be a fun negotiation. 
mik


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## The_Universe (Dec 9, 2004)

> Archon knows the Bluestar is powerful, but no one is invincible.



 Don't be so sure.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 9, 2004)

The Bluestar is more than a simple Mage, remember that. He is a lich that has lived for over 800 years.  Archonus may be well equipped for taking out a Mage... but, it is much *much* more than that.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 9, 2004)

In order for Big Blue to be destroyed, the blade that his soul is in must be destroyed... right now, we don't have all the blades... and, we won't any time soon.  So, attacking HIM does is very little good at all.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 10, 2004)

Queen Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So, attacking HIM does is very little good at all.



I call it stress relief


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 10, 2004)

Perhaps, but most "stress relief" doesn't generally end in death, or worse.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 10, 2004)

Also, since I did stat him out, I think that the ability that I like the best (and it's only one among many) is the ability to summon a blizzard that blasts a *50 mile radius* circle with unholy cold.  Everyone that dies in the blizzard raises as a wight.  How cool is that?!

Oh yeah - the blizzard does 30d8 damage, initially.

The Bluestar rocks.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 10, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, since I did stat him out, I think that the ability that I like the best (and it's only one among many) is the ability to summon a blizzard that blasts a *50 mile radius* circle with unholy cold.  Everyone that dies in the blizzard raises as a wight.  How cool is that?!
> 
> Oh yeah - the blizzard does 30d8 damage, initially.
> 
> The Bluestar rocks.



 Note to self: attacking Big Blue results in the death (and probably the undeath) of every PC.

Excellent.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 10, 2004)

One of the things Liz mentioned this morning that I think is an excellent idea is to get a list of issues you want to make sure are codified (officially written down) in the deal with the Bluestar.  

While some of your deal may take place "under the table," you'll want formal agreements for at least part of it, as will he.  What are the issues that it's most important to get on paper?  What can you accept a "gentleman's (-woman's) agreement" about?  

Good things to ask yourselves.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 10, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> One of the things Liz mentioned this morning that I think is an excellent idea is to get a list of issues you want to make sure are codified (officially written down) in the deal with the Bluestar.
> 
> While some of your deal may take place "under the table," you'll want formal agreements for at least part of it, as will he.  What are the issues that it's most important to get on paper?  What can you accept a "gentleman's (-woman's) agreement" about?
> 
> Good things to ask yourselves.



 I'm working on hammering out a list, right now.


----------



## Xath (Dec 11, 2004)

Yay!!! We came out better than we thought we would!!!


----------



## Archon (Dec 11, 2004)

now we have to talk to Jansten.


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## The_Universe (Dec 12, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> now we have to talk to Jansten.



 I'd say it was a mixed blessing.  You ended up getting less than I thought you would, but you ended up giving less, as well.  We'll see how you do with this.  

Let's hope we can take care of Jansten's thing before we play next - that should help a great deal.  Remember that the sooner the ward comes down, the better - until it's gone (or at least until gates are no longer manned) the Bluestar's army can't get to the Isle of Mourning.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 12, 2004)

Gertie, can you post the document from last night, please?

Thanks.


----------



## Xath (Dec 12, 2004)

*The Document*

Here you are.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 12, 2004)

Secondary topic of discussion: 

The Bluestar thinks the ward is powered by something in Khaz Barok (Dwarven Sylvanus).  That would help explain why he launched an attack against it when Xath was a child.  However, all you know is the probable location of a power source, not what it actually is.  

What could be in Khaz Barok that has powered the ward for so long?  Why hasn't the ward fallen, since the clanhold has?  What could it be, and where could it be hiding?


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## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

And it's still swarming with undead.  Why/how did the Bluestar lose control of them?  If he still maintained control, he would know more about what's in Khaz Barok; he may have even disabled the ward by now.  

How long was the Bluestar able to control them once he had deployed them?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> And it's still swarming with undead.  Why/how did the Bluestar lose control of them?  If he still maintained control, he would know more about what's in Khaz Barok; he may have even disabled the ward by now.
> 
> How long was the Bluestar able to control them once he had deployed them?



 Presumably, the Bluestar lost control of the creatures south of the wall as soon as the hole in the ward that allowed them through was repaired.  Once it was up, not even his magical observations could cross it.  

You don't know for how long he was able to control them...from your hazy recollection, you think the battles in the clanholds lasted for about a month.  So, no more than thirty days...probably closer to two weeks.  (but it's just hazy recollection from childhood, and remembering stories from other survivors)


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Secondary topic of discussion:
> 
> The Bluestar thinks the ward is powered by something in Khaz Barok (Dwarven Sylvanus).  That would help explain why he launched an attack against it when Xath was a child.  However, all you know is the probable location of a power source, not what it actually is.
> 
> What could be in Khaz Barok that has powered the ward for so long?  Why hasn't the ward fallen, since the clanhold has?  What could it be, and where could it be hiding?



 Knowledge History/Religion to see what Justice would know about the ward?  Do her new memories of Thane allow her any advantage in determining what it is?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Additionally:

Justice asked Big Blue about her mother.  She's not dead.  Which, in many ways, is not what Justice wanted to hear.  That means her mother has deliberately chosen not to respond to the messages she has Sent her.  

However, she was able to trade the Prophecy of the Stone Oracle for all of Big Blue's memories about the Apecto.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Is there a way to Commune with the dead... as opposed to simply commuming with the Light?

If there was a way that we could have a little chat with Link, that would be awesome... by our best guess, is 'heaven' a different plane? or something all together different?


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Knowledge History/Religion to see what Justice would know about the ward? Do her new memories of Thane allow her any advantage in determining what it is?



New Memories what?......


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> However, she was able to trade the Prophecy of the Stone Oracle for all of Big Blue's memories about the Apecto.



Didn't know we had agreed to this.... but I guess it is technically Justice's prophecy to with as she wants.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Didn't know we had agreed to this.... but I guess it is technically Justice's prophecy to with as she wants.



 It's just where things went after she asked about her mother... which I thought everyone said was okay if she did it after people left.  If it's not okay, just say so and I'll take it back.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Is there a way to Commune with the dead... as opposed to simply commuming with the Light?
> 
> If there was a way that we could have a little chat with Link, that would be awesome... by our best guess, is 'heaven' a different plane? or something all together different?



Well, we can 'speak with dead' but need a body for that one.
If it turns out we can Commune with a warrior of the past why not Quarion (sp?).  He supposedly put the thing up he should know that most about it......


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> It's just where things went after she asked about her mother... which I thought everyone said was okay if she did it after people left.  If it's not okay, just say so and I'll take it back.



 It was either the Prophecy or promising that her line of the Apecto would end with her.

She thought it was a fair trade... and, he already has every piece of information that Xath had about KoA's favorite Prince of Darkness...  

So, I figured the Prophecy was the best way to get the information.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, we can 'speak with dead' but need a body for that one.
> If it turns out we can Commune with a warrior of the past why not Quarion (sp?).  He supposedly put the thing up he should know that most about it......



 I was thinking Link just because he lived so much longer... so, could have even more information than Quarion... but, either way would be incredibly helpful.

But, may not be possible.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> It's just where things went after she asked about her mother... which I thought everyone said was okay if she did it after people left. If it's not okay, just say so and I'll take it back.



I just thought she was asking about her mom seeing if she was alive and such.  And I though she asked while everyone was still in the room and Kennon gave Big Blue's answer.... I guess I just didn't realize there was a 'more'
What does/did the group say?  
What does Justice think memories of Thane will give the rebellion or help the war specifically?  
Is it worth giving him the tool of the prophesies?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I just thought she was asking about her mom seeing if she was alive and such.  And I though she asked while everyone was still in the room and Kennon gave Big Blue's answer.... I guess I just didn't realize there was a 'more'
> What does/did the group say?
> What does Justice think memories of Thane will give the rebellion or help the war specifically?
> Is it worth giving him the tool of the prophesies?



 He already has every prophecy that mentions Mordred the Black - Xath gave him that.  Didn't figure that the Prophecy of the Stone Oracle was any more or less valuable than all of that information.

I didn't think it was going to be more... however, when Kennon said that it was a possibility, Justice, of course, jumped at it.  Knowledge of Thane, no doubt, has a vast importance to her.  She constantly strives to know more about her heritage... especially since, technically, she's the only one that carries the blood of the Apectan line, now. (don't know how that works with L'Aurels new body and the like...???)


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> She thought it was a fair trade... and, he already has every piece of information that Xath had about KoA's favorite Prince of Darkness...



Yep traded guesses for actual facts on same topic and now we all know essentially, so fair trade.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

So far as the war specifically goes - it could or could not.  It could highlight some weakness of Big Blue...

However, regardless of their importance to the war, she would want them for herself, Preston and Dorn, and for the Church.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Knowledge History/Religion to see what Justice would know about the ward?  Do her new memories of Thane allow her any advantage in determining what it is?



 Nope.  They are only the Bluestar's memories of Thane, which of course do not include what Thane secretly used to imprison him.  If the Bluestar knew, it's already be gone.  



> Is there a way to Commune with the dead... as opposed to simply commuming with the Light?



Nope.



> If there was a way that we could have a little chat with Link, that would be awesome... by our best guess, is 'heaven' a different plane? or something all together different?



No chats with Link by any method I can think of off the top of my head.  Proposals? 

Heaven is probably a different plane, although inaccessible my mortals.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, we can 'speak with dead' but need a body for that one.
> If it turns out we can Commune with a warrior of the past why not Quarion (sp?). He supposedly put the thing up he should know that most about it......



Quarion undoubtedly knows more about it than Link would or did. However, as far as I know, you *do* need a body for that.  It's Quarion's Wall and Quarion's Ward - he put it up while the Woodshadow was off brooding because somebody killed his wife.  Sounds like someone else I know....


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## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> He already has every prophecy that mentions Mordred the Black - Xath gave him that. Didn't figure that the Prophecy of the Stone Oracle was any more or less valuable than all of that information.
> 
> I didn't think it was going to be more... however, when Kennon said that it was a possibility, Justice, of course, jumped at it. Knowledge of Thane, no doubt, has a vast importance to her. She constantly strives to know more about her heritage... especially since, technically, she's the only one that carries the blood of the Apectan line, now. (don't know how that works with L'Aurels new body and the like...???)



I bet there are lots of people each of the PC's would love to get to know all about, and big blue has that knowledge.
I know it would be important to Justice on a personal front, but the question was: What does Justice think memories of Thane will give the rebellion or help the war specifically?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Additionally, the memories are not *Justice's* - they are everyone's... just as the memories that Xath received are everyone's.


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## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> He already has every prophecy that mentions Mordred the Black - Xath gave him that. Didn't figure that the Prophecy of the Stone Oracle was any more or less valuable than all of that information.



Correcting myself- If he got ALL the prophecies that deal with Mordred then he got the one for the stone oracle as well. It sepcifically mentiones Dark Mistress and Goddess' Son both of with we were guessing to be Tiamat and Morded.
So if as you said he got them (which I think is correct)... he already had this info.......????......


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I bet there are lots of people each of the PC's would love to get to know all about, and big blue has that knowledge.
> I know it would be important to Justice on a personal front, but the question was: What does Justice think memories of Thane will give the rebellion or help the war specifically?



 Like I said earlier, at the time of proposing the Prophecy for the memories, she probably was not thinking about the rebellion.  She went to Big Blue to ask about her mother out of entirely selfish reasons.  Upon learning that she was not dead (somewhat enraging news in and of itself) she was shaken... and, upon learning that she could have the memories he possessed of her ancestor, she probably unthinkingly offered the one thing that came to mind.

In retrospect, they can help the rebellion by simply having the knowledge... however, it will probably do more for the Church and the minds of Preston and Dorn than anything for the rebellion.

::shrug::  If that isn't a fair trade, then, it's not set in stone - it can easily be hand-waved away.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> He already has every prophecy that mentions Mordred the Black - Xath gave him that.  Didn't figure that the Prophecy of the Stone Oracle was any more or less valuable than all of that information.
> 
> I didn't think it was going to be more... however, when Kennon said that it was a possibility, Justice, of course, jumped at it.  Knowledge of Thane, no doubt, has a vast importance to her.  She constantly strives to know more about her heritage... especially since, technically, she's the only one that carries the blood of the Apectan line, now. (don't know how that works with L'Aurels new body and the like...???)



 Laurel know longer carries the Blood of the Apecto, although one can make an argument that she does carry on the _spirit_ of the line, which is still a good thing.  



> So far as the war specifically goes - it could or could not. It could highlight some weakness of Big Blue...
> 
> However, regardless of their importance to the war, she would want them for herself, Preston and Dorn, and for the Church.



Remember that these are only the Blustar's memories of Thane Apecto, not a catalog of the Saint's life.  Furthermore, considering how they ended things, the memories Justice recieved are colored by what is essentially an undying hatred of Thane.  

Everything takes on a negative cast - from what you have "learned," the Apecto was a pompous overbearing egomaniac who created a phony religion out of thin air so he could live out his days in luxury and stay close to the new (and easily influenced) Falcon King.  He constantly threatened the practice of wizardry, and purposefully orchestrated situations so that Aregonn Bluestar would take the brunt of the danger while he pursued family squabbles at low risk to himself.  

AND he smelled funny. 

And since the Bluestar is an egomaniac, you have learned through his memories that he has no weaknesses, only strengths...he beat Thane, crushed his heart and soul...and that's the last thing you "remember."  Oh - it's a happy memory.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Correcting myself- If he got ALL the prophecies that deal with Mordred then he got the one for the stone oracle as well. It sepcifically mentiones Dark Mistress and Goddess' Son both of with we were guessing to be Tiamat and Morded.
> So if as you said he got them (which I think is correct)... he already had this info.......????......



 Maybe that reference isn't about Mordred, then?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Correcting myself- If he got ALL the prophecies that deal with Mordred then he got the one for the stone oracle as well. It sepcifically mentiones Dark Mistress and Goddess' Son both of with we were guessing to be Tiamat and Morded.
> So if as you said he got them (which I think is correct)... he already had this info.......????......



 From Xath, he just got the pieces of the various prophecies that she believed dealt with Mordred.  From Justice, he recieved the entire "text" of the prophecy of the Stone Oracle.  

On another note, like Liz said, even though the memories live in Justice's head, they're accessible to everyone.  

Lastly, you don't know for sure if Justice's mother isn't dead - you just know that the Bluestar doesn't think she is...


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Maybe that reference isn't about Mordred, then?



 He got the pieces of every prophecy that Xath _thought _referred to Mordred.  There was no third party ensuring accuracy in the transfer.  Now that the Bluestar has that information, he can sythesize it however he wants...but he didn't get any whole prophecies, except where Xath thought the whole prophecies dealt with Mordred.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Lastly, you don't know for sure if Justice's mother isn't dead - you just know that the Bluestar doesn't think she is...




Well, it's the most credible source that Justice can think of so far as stuff like that goes... so, until something else happens, she assumes that Katie lives.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Well, it's the most credible source that Justice can think of so far as stuff like that goes... so, until something else happens, she assumes that Katie lives.



 Just remember that the Blustar doesn't have any control over life and death in realms outside of his influence.  He is not a Hades watching over the underworld (and certainly not a St. Peter at the Gates of Heaven) - he's just a very bad undead man who happens to have the ability to twist the dead to his will in a semblence of life.  While that affords him a certain technical mastery of life and death, it does not make him any more or less aware of the varying souls that pass from this life to the next...unless he killed them himself.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

*Earthsea tonight.... hmmm, can SciFi pull it off?....*

Still I assume in game time this actually took place before Kareth showed up, when the Bluestar answered the question Justice posed about her mom.  Only the convo. continued later in actual time.  
It still means that IC we all would have been there, and I am just asking what L'Aurel would have asked.  
If Justice blurts out the offer and the Bluestar just grabs it... then it happens. 
I don't know how things were at the time, nor what he would/did do.
If he doesn't jump at it, then L'Aurel at least would ask Justice: what she thinks memories of Thane will give the rebellion or help the war specifically?
If all Justice can respond with is a need for personal knowledge and it will help the church, it can be delt with later.

By Gertie and Mik being there did Xath or Arhconus say anything? Agree to it, obstain, not say anything?

But personally since we would all be standing around it's an IC thing that should be played out somehow, as we have said with all those pesky IC things that involve the group should.  
But at the least can a what happened, order of events for the rest of us 'standing around' be posted IC thread up to the actual final exchange? Just so we know what happened, what was said all that fun


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Just remember that the Blustar doesn't have any control over life and death in realms outside of his influence.  He is not a Hades watching over the underworld (and certainly not a St. Peter at the Gates of Heaven) - he's just a very bad undead man who happens to have the ability to twist the dead to his will in a semblence of life.  While that affords him a certain technical mastery of life and death, it does not make him any more or less aware of the varying souls that pass from this life to the next...unless he killed them himself.



 She is well aware of that.  However, Justice believes that he is as close as she can get to an answer when it comes to the current status of her mother.  So, unless some other source were to make itself known, she is going to take his word for it.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

*A Taking Back*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Still I assume in game time this actually took place before Kareth showed up, when the Bluestar answered the question Justice posed about her mom.  Only the convo. continued later in actual time.
> It still means that IC we all would have been there, and I am just asking what L'Aurel would have asked.
> If Justice blurts out the offer and the Bluestar just grabs it... then it happens.
> I don't know how things were at the time, nor what he would/did do.
> ...




It would have happened before Big Blue packed up to leave... a little left-over conversation was mentioned before everyone left the Bauman apartment... Justice wanted to ask about her mother.  So, let's say she did at least that much because I did run it by the others in the group - and had no objections.  

But, just forget that she did anything else.  

It would have been a very, very cool addition to her character's motivation to shake the foundations of her Church to discover what The Truth *really* is.  

However, it was not something that was role played out in detail.  I mentioned that it would be cool.  Kennon said it was possible if I had something to give.  So, we determined what *could* be given.

It seems clear that it was not something that other players appreciated.  So, we'll just say it never happened and move on to talking about things that really matter.



On to the taking down of the wall.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

> It would have been a very, very cool addition to her character's motivation to shake the foundations of her Church to discover what The Truth *really* is.



What you learned isn't necessarily true, only what the Bluestar _remembers_.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Kennon - is there a knowledge check that can give us some insight as to what we should expect in taking down the wall?  I know nothing can give us all the answers - or the correct answers for that matter.  

But, is there some sort of knowledge we can roll to determine any little sliver of information?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> What you learned isn't necessarily true, only what the Bluestar _remembers_.



 Yes - which is why it would have motivated her to learn more instead of accepting things for the way they are.

No doubt, Justice never would have questioned the validity of her Church's founder until that encounter with Big Blue.

But, it doesn't matter because it didn't happen.


----------



## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

*The Scene*

Xath, in character, told Justice that she didn't want any memories of the Bluestar because of the madness that she feels every time she tries to access info about Mordred.  As for the information that Xath gave the Bluestar about Mordred, here it is.  No complete prophecies, just tidbits.

Darkness reigns as liege once, and again 
Should the sword of Kings fall to Goddess’ son!

Death will not bar midnight’s Imperator!

Along the way, Mordred claims both thrones (Falcon and Dragon), diverting a small part of his Fists to subdue the Caesarian Emperor.  He is actually of truer blood than either of them (although his immortality remains a mystery) and because most of the imperial armies are fighting Maelwys and Destro on Prydein, there is little resistence on the continent.

After Mordred is defeated at Caer Hextor, the war dies down to limited skirmishes, but within 5 years, Maelwys is undisputed King of Prydein and the Ringed Continent.

Mordred had risen to claim the throne over all of the ringed continent by reuniting the sundered dragon empire (Caesaria and Byzantium had once been part of the same empire, but the throne had been sundered by the petty wars of a hundred generations).  For a little over a year, Mordred the Black was Emperor over all the Ringed continent, and his capitol was at Caer Hextor, his home on Mordred's Isle

However, the legends say that after the battle in which Mordred was killed and his armies scattered by the forces of the resurrected Falcon Kingdom , Aregonn found something in the dark, arcane libraries of Mordred's castle...something that changed him. 
4000 BL (1932 nd year of the Falcon) Tiamat, disguised as a mortal, seduces Morgath. Unkown to Morgath, a son is born of the union—Mordred the Black.
2730 BL (1253 rd year of the Dragon) Mordred the Black establishes Caer Hextor on an island south of Prydein. He then organizes the Fists of Hextor, a mercenary company.
4 BL (2223 rd year of the Sundered Empire) Aron Greyclaw allies himself with Mordred the Black, bringing with him (officially) the Kingdom of Prydenisti Elves.
2 BL (2225 th year of the Sundered Empire) Mordred the Black claims both parts of the Sundered Throne, proclaiming himself (correctly) heir to the united Dragon Empire. Mordred turns the united might of 2 empires against the rebellious Prydein. While Gorak and a dwarven warlord, Arutha Bloodaxe, lead the Falcon King’s army against the forces of Emperor Mordred, the Woodshadow, the Apecto, the Amastacia, Aregonn Bluestar, General Zao Jade and Quarion the Great lead a second army against Mordred’s stronghold at Caer Hextor. The Woodshadow kills Aron Greyclaw, and his son Daran, making himself rightful King of the Prydenisti. The Apecto brings his holy Light to bear against Mordred, revealing his true, monstrous form (a Shadow Dragon). The gathered forces defeat Mordred’s army, and Mordred himself is killed shortly after.


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## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> However, the legends say that after the battle in which Mordred was killed and his armies scattered by the forces of the resurrected Falcon Kingdom , Aregonn found something in the dark, arcane libraries of Mordred's castle...something that changed him.





Accessing the Bluestar's memories, I want to know more about this.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath, in character, told Justice that she didn't want any memories of the Bluestar because of the madness that she feels every time she tries to access info about Mordred.




Justice ruled this an acceptable price to pay for the glimpse into the past - no matter how one sided the representation of her ancestor may have been.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

From the SRD:
_
Sending
Evocation

Level: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 5

Components: V, S, M/DF

Casting Time: 10 minutes

Range: See text

Target: One creature

Duration: 1 round; see text

Saving Throw: None

Spell Resistance: No

You contact a particular creature with which you are familiar and send a short message of twenty-five words or less to the subject. The subject recognizes you if it knows you. It can answer in like manner immediately. A creature with an Intelligence score as low as 1 can understand the sending, though the subject’s ability to react is limited as normal by its Intelligence score. Even if the sending is received, the subject is not obligated to act upon it in any manner.

If the creature in question is not on the same plane of existence as you are, there is a 5% chance that the sending does not arrive. (Local conditions on other planes may worsen this chance considerably.)

Arcane Material Component: A short piece of fine copper wire._

If the afterlife *is* on another plane, Justice can attempt to contact Quarior via Sending.  Granted, she can't cast it very often (3 times/day, I think?)... but, it's the best solution I can think of to get some information from beyond the grave.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Kennon - is there a knowledge check that can give us some insight as to what we should expect in taking down the wall?  I know nothing can give us all the answers - or the correct answers for that matter.
> 
> But, is there some sort of knowledge we can roll to determine any little sliver of information?



 Ask a specific question, and I'll tell you what to roll, if there's something that you can find out.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

But, if Khaz Borak (sp?) is truly crawling with undead... just send Justice in, give her 10 minutes, and she'll take care of it.  Once that's done, we can mess with whatever powers the wall.

*ARCHON EGO* (wee-ooo-wee-ooo)


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## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Accessing the Bluestar's memories, I want to know more about this.



 A book.  Something similar to the necronomicon in Army of Darkness...


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## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Justice ruled this an acceptable price to pay for the glimpse into the past - no matter how one sided the representation of her ancestor may have been.



 I don't care if you keep it - just justify it IC with the other characters.  This board (or the IC one) is a perfectly acceptable format for doing so.  I think it's cool, too - but fair's fair.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Ask a specific question, and I'll tell you what to roll, if there's something that you can find out.



 Is the ward in the wall powered by some source of Holy energy?

Is the ward in the wall powered by a powerful artifact?

Has anyone tampered with it in the past?
   -if yes, who? how?
   -if no, has anyone tried?

Has there ever been a time when the ward seems to have weakened?
    -if yes, when? what happened?

Do we have any dwarves in Hyrwl that would have lived at Khaz Borak? Visited? Could they draw us a map? How detailed?
   -Do they know anything about what powers the ward?


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## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Sending won't work.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> But, if Khaz Borak (sp?) is truly crawling with undead... just send Justice in, give her 10 minutes, and she'll take care of it.  Once that's done, we can mess with whatever powers the wall.
> 
> *ARCHON EGO* (wee-ooo-wee-ooo)



 Just curious - how many daily turn undead attempts to do you have?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I don't care if you keep it - just justify it IC with the other characters.  This board (or the IC one) is a perfectly acceptable format for doing so.  I think it's cool, too - but fair's fair.



 That's what I've been trying to do all morning/afternoon.  However, it does not seem to be enough.

It's not something that was role played out in any detail... and, I guess, if we want to role play the whole thing out in game or over the thread, that's fine.  I'm sure it would be fun because, I, too, think it's cool. 

But, if it's going to cause beef in the group, I don't want to do it.


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## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Is the ward in the wall powered by some source of Holy energy?



Knowledge Arcana.



> Is the ward in the wall powered by a powerful artifact?



Knowledge: History



> Has anyone tampered with it in the past?
> -if yes, who? how?
> -if no, has anyone tried?



Knowledge: History, Knowledge: Military



> Has there ever been a time when the ward seems to have weakened?
> -if yes, when? what happened?



Knowledge: History and Military.  Also, you know it's been weakened at least once - that's how Khaz Barok fell.  



> Do we have any dwarves in Hyrwl that would have lived at Khaz Borak? Visited? Could they draw us a map? How detailed?
> -Do they know anything about what powers the ward?



Nobody alive knows what powers the ward.  They don't even know that what powers the ward is in Khaz Barok.  There are dwarves in Sylvanus that lived in Khaz Barok - but none in Hyrwl.  They could probably sketch a rough map.


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## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

Knowledge Arcana. (41)

Knowledge: History (52)

Knowledge: History (38), Knowledge: Military

Knowledge: History (29)  and Military. 


Also, a general Bardic (34)


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Just curious - how many daily turn undead attempts to do you have?



 A bug-a-jillion:

3 + cha mod + 4 (extra turning) = 12.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> That's what I've been trying to do all morning/afternoon.  However, it does not seem to be enough.
> 
> It's not something that was role played out in any detail... and, I guess, if we want to role play the whole thing out in game or over the thread, that's fine.  I'm sure it would be fun because, I, too, think it's cool.
> 
> But, if it's going to cause beef in the group, I don't want to do it.



 I don't know if it needs any more detail - I just think people want to get their opinion heard...then, if you still blurt - so be it.

Secondarily, I'm not averse to you giving him something else in exchange for the Thane info - but like all the rest he gave you, it's going to have a price.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Knowledge Arcana. (41)
> 
> Knowledge: History (52)
> 
> ...



 Anyone want to aid her?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> A bug-a-jillion:
> 
> 3 + cha mod + 4 (extra turning) = 12.



 Eagle's Splendor ups that to 13... and, if Xath wanted to loan Justice her cloak for a few minutes, it would increase it to 14.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Eagle's Splendor ups that to 13... and, if Xath wanted to loan Justice her cloak for a few minutes, it would increase it to 14.



 Also, I can Greater Turn something like 6 times/day.  I'm not sure about that figure... but, I can do it a lot.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Anyone want to aid her?



 I would gladly... don't have a d20 handy, though.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

*Double Post of Dooooom....*

So we send Justice in to Dwarven Sylvanus and she lets us know when it's all clear of undead 

About the trade thing and Justice getting Bluestar's memories of Thane- it's whatever you want to do.  No, I don't think it's fair to just say it happened, but all I was trying to do was talk about it.  It's what would have happened IC, or with all of sitting there.  

Have yet hear if I am/was the only one IC/OCC with issues though....


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Anyone want to aid her?



I think Justice is really the only one who can for those rolls  or maybe Jansten, with Arcana knowledge


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I would gladly... don't have a d20 handy, though.



 Religion: 26
     -This includes stuff about undead too, remember.  

Military: 23


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I think Justice is really the only one who can for those rolls  or maybe Jansten, with Arcana knowledge



 Xath should be making them with aid from others - she's the one with the real investment in Knowledges.    Justice has History, Military, and Religion.

But, Xath has definately got her beat in this arena.  That's what Bards are for!


----------



## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> That's what Bards are for!





I just got the vulture quartet from "The Jungle Book" singing "that's what bards are for..."


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

*Bonuses are being included.*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Is the ward in the wall powered by some source of Holy energy?



 Whatever the energy source is, it is not Holy in the same sense as having positive energy flowing from it, nor is it similar to the "holy" energy of a sword.  



> Is the ward in the wall powered by a powerful artifact?



At the end of the War of the Damned, there were rumors that after an exhaustive search at the behest of Quarion the Great, the dwarves of Khaz Barok moved a powerful artifact from somewhere below Citadel Refuge (an abandoned Dwarven clanhold) and carried over land and see to Khaz Barok.  Whatever it was could not be moved by normal transportation magic.  



> Has anyone tampered with it in the past?
> -if yes, who? how?
> -if no, has anyone tried?



As far as anyone knows, there's nothing to tamper with - it just _is_.  So, in no recorded instance has anyone tampered with it, although it does seem to have natural weak spots, such as the gates you passed through, and wherever the Bluestar broke through to destroy Khaz Barok.   



> Has there ever been a time when the ward seems to have weakened?
> -if yes, when? what happened?



There was a weakness deep below the ground around 50 years ago, and it is there that the Bluestar's forces broke through.  After nearly two weeks of fighting, the breech seems to have sealed itself.  The battle continued and Khaz Barok fell...but the Bluestar was denied ultimately victory since the seal on his prison was once more complete.  

There were other times, but during each of those times the ward repaired itself in no longer than a few months.  Quarion kept the secret of its magic well-hidden, in part because he believed that the Bluestar had spies still capable of crossing in the South.


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## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

[b said:
			
		

> The_Universe[/b]]Anyone want to aid her?





			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> I think Justice is really the only one who can for those rolls  or maybe Jansten, with Arcana knowledge





			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Xath should be making them with aid from others - she's the one with the real investment in Knowledges.  Justice has History, Military, and Religion.
> But, Xath has definately got her beat in this arena. That's what Bards are for!



In order to aid however one has to have something there... Xath rolls, Justice can aid, most of us can't.  Thought it was implied in what I said. Only Justice can 'aid' for those rolls, with possibly Jansten for adding a +2 to Arcana knowledge, but who knows what his stats are for those


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So we send Justice in to Dwarven Sylvanus and she lets us know when it's all clear of undead
> 
> About the trade thing and Justice getting Bluestar's memories of Thane- it's whatever you want to do.  No, I don't think it's fair to just say it happened, but all I was trying to do was talk about it.  It's what would have happened IC, or with all of sitting there.
> 
> Have yet hear if I am/was the only one IC/OCC with issues though....



 Working on the assumption that Justice could ask Big Blue about her mother, she also asked about her great-great-great grandpa.

Xath and Archonus were both there... Xath urged her not to do it... Justice thought the price Xath described was worth the information she would recieve.
Archonus said nothing.

So, that leaves L'Aurel in the circle.

If she objects, Justice would gladly listen and make her decision based on that.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Working on the assumption that Justice could ask Big Blue about her mother, she also asked about her great-great-great grandpa.
> 
> Xath and Archonus were both there... Xath urged her not to do it... Justice thought the price Xath described was worth the information she would recieve.
> Archonus said nothing.
> ...



Already said she would  So movin over to the IC thread in a little bit with it.  Hopefully this way we can learn move of the fun with undead and magic walls here mostly unhindered


----------



## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

When Xath accesses the Bluestar's memories of Mordred, what are her perceptions?  Is her opinion of Mordred influenced when she is accessing them?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> When Xath accesses the Bluestar's memories of Mordred, what are her perceptions?  Is her opinion of Mordred influenced when she is accessing them?



 I would assume so... you see the memories through "Bluestar colored glasses."


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> When Xath accesses the Bluestar's memories of Mordred, what are her perceptions?  Is her opinion of Mordred influenced when she is accessing them?



 Yeah.  Mordred is a cruel, power hungry overlord with delusions of grandeur.  The Bluestar suspects that his pretensions to Godhood are completely fabricated, and even if they are not, he has reason to suspect that Oberon and Tiamat, at least, are not completely divine in origin.  Regardless, he knows that whatever Mordred really is, Morgath I is his father, and Tiamat his mother...

When accessing his memories, you are filled with a burning hatred second only to that he feels for the Apecto and Quarion the Great.  Mordred must fall - not because of the atrocities he caused, but because had they audacity to take something for his own that the Bluestar considers _his. _


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Religion: 26
-This includes stuff about undead too, remember. 
History: 22
Military: 23

Forgot to add History in here for some reason... 

So, what do we get through those Knoweldge checks and the questions posted earlier?


----------



## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> When accessing his memories, you are filled with a burning hatred second only to that he feels for the Apecto and Quarion the Great.  Mordred must fall - not because of the atrocities he caused, but because had they audacity to take something for his own that the Bluestar considers _his. _





What?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> What?



 You feel the memories the way Big Blue does... and he HATES Mordred for persuing immortality... that belongs to Big Blue alone.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> What?



Why, the Great Ring, of course.

And immortality, too.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Religion: 26
> -This includes stuff about undead too, remember.
> History: 22
> Military: 23
> ...



Answers are posted above, somwhere.


----------



## Xath (Dec 13, 2004)

Nevermind


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Nevermind



 Well that's not very interesting.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

I think that questions about Mordred's memories should be posted either in a different thread, gmail, or in the Google group... 

It'd be handy to keep it all together.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 14, 2004)

See justice has the memories and all she had to say was that she was the ancestor of the apecto, and she got the info. on her mom.  It worked out even better then the other night.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> See justice has the memories and all she had to say was that she was the ancestor of the apecto, and she got the info. on her mom.  It worked out even better then the other night.



 I just hope he doesn't hunt me, my mother, and my potential children down and slaughter them all.

And, we need Jansten to roll a Spellcraft check... want to know what he was casting IC...


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I just hope he doesn't hunt me, my mother, and my potential children down and slaughter them all.
> 
> And, we need Jansten to roll a Spellcraft check... want to know what he was casting IC...



 That would be beneficial, yes.  

OK - now we officially have two seperate sources of information...and, IC, the next time Justice and Xath fall asleep, suffice to say that there dreams are...disturbing.  

Though there aren't any mechanical penalties or benefits as of yet, bear this in mind as you access the memories of the Bluestar:

1) You see everything therein from his perspective.  
2) These memories are alien - wrong in a way that you cannot normally conceptualize.  The more time you spend immersed in them, the more of yourself you will lose.  
3) The memories are like an incurable cancer (at the moment) in that they may be able to be fenced in or contained, but they cannot simply be dismissed.  If you leave them alone, they leave you alone, but every time you access them, it seems a little harder to force them to retreat.  It may be possible to remove them, entirely if you wish - but it may not be.  Without a doubt, the longer they live in your mind, the harder it will be to have them out of it.  
4) When you sleep, you have nightmares, and because of the rings, you share them with the group.  Unlike the normal dream state, these assault party members (once more, no mechanics) even when they are awake. 

There may be more, but that's what I think is important to note right now.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I think that questions about Mordred's memories should be posted either in a different thread, gmail, or in the Google group...
> 
> It'd be handy to keep it all together.



 Handle it however you like.  Just let me know.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> That would be beneficial, yes.
> 
> OK - now we officially have two seperate sources of information...and, IC, the next time Justice and Xath fall asleep, suffice to say that there dreams are...disturbing.
> 
> ...



 When we are back in Hyrwl, does Justice still manage to share the nightmares even if she's sleeping in her and Varis' chambers?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Speaking of other threads and the like:

I know that Kat and Kennon made their opinions known... but, what did everybody else think of the possibility of purchasing a thread here at ENWorld? (I don't remember if anyone else said anything)


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

As long as someone in the circle is within thirty feet, they're feeling the nightmares.  It's just like the dream "daisy chain"


----------



## Laurel (Dec 14, 2004)

Personally I'd prefer to not have to check yet another thing... the groove thing kind of ended (or seemed to) so not sure how just adding another thing on would do.  Cost is a factor however.  Cheap and free best


----------



## Xath (Dec 14, 2004)

I thought that because of the previous shared dream experiences, noone wore their rings anymore when sleeping.  At least not in a safe environment, perhaps now for safety.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Personally I'd prefer to not have to check yet another thing... the groove thing kind of ended (or seemed to) so not sure how just adding another thing on would do.  Cost is a factor however.  Cheap and free best



 Well, having a hosted forum would essentially replace this thread and the IC thread with a whole forum, all still here at EnWorld.  Yes, groove died - but at least partially because everyone's trial ran out.  I have no problem just continuing to do what we're already doing, but I do think a hosted forum would be neat, and may make it easier to track disparate IC and OOC discussions.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I thought that because of the previous shared dream experiences, noone wore their rings anymore when sleeping.  At least not in a safe environment, perhaps now for safety.



 If no one's wearing rings at night, the dreams don't bleed.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I thought that because of the previous shared dream experiences, noone wore their rings anymore when sleeping. At least not in a safe environment, perhaps now for safety.



Well, I guess nows a good time to ask, as I am not sure if everyone answered/had a ring and such... So, anyone still wearing it all the time?  Or better yet when does the PC wear it?
-danger, fight- Where do they keep it when not wearing it on thier finger?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, I guess nows a good time to ask, as I am not sure if everyone answered/had a ring and such... So, anyone still wearing it all the time?  Or better yet when does the PC wear it?
> -danger, fight- Where do they keep it when not wearing it on thier finger?



 Justice wears her ring at night - unless there is a request that she does not.


----------



## Archon (Dec 14, 2004)

*he likes the quiet*

Archon has a cord necklace which runs through two rings. one of which is his Circle Ring. He only wears it when it is requested of him.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Realistically, Justice fears that someone bad will manage to take the ring... so, it's always on her person if it's not on her hand.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

What is the symbol of marriage in KoA?  Is it a ring?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> What is the symbol of marriage in KoA?  Is it a ring?



 Whatever you want it to be.  I don't think that detail has come up, before.  It can be a ring, but it can be something else, too.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Whatever you want it to be.  I don't think that detail has come up, before.  It can be a ring, but it can be something else, too.



 I think it should be pie.

... mmmm ...

Pie.


----------



## Xath (Dec 14, 2004)

Nothing like a good battle to start off a marriage the right way.  

"During the "marriage by capture" era, close friends of the groom-to-be assisted him when he kidnapped the bride from her family. The first ushers and best men were more like a small army, fighting off the brides angry relatives as the groom rode away with her. "


----------



## Xath (Dec 14, 2004)

*Marriage ideas for KoA...*

As far as marriages that take place under the light, here is my idea.  

Part of the marriage ceremony itself involves the lighting of a veremonial light (mental thesaurus not working) which symbolizes the unity of the couple under the Light.  

Poorer couples light a ceremonial candle, which they rekindle once per year on the anniversary of their wedding day.  Noble and merchant families cast and have cast "Continual Flame" on a special object.  This may be anything from a wooden carving to a large extravagant gem.

Some couples carry "pieces" of their ceremonial light with them all of the time, usually stored in pendants or lockets.  Couples who's marriage light is a candle or wood carving may store some shavings in a simple locket.  

Those who use gems will symbolically use the "same" wedding light, by having their baubles made of the same gem; (ie.  if the wedding light is a diamond, the pendants will be diamond).  "Continual Light"  will be cast on the pendants during the wedding ceremony along with the main marriage light.

Marrige lights are prized amongst families and often occupy prized positions on mantlepieces or in display cabinets.  Some are passed through generations.  In the case of those with "Continual Light" cast upon them, the item is simply covered and then revealed at the appropriate point in the ceremony.


Anyway, my idea.  Elaborate, change, discard as you see fit.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> As far as marriages that take place under the light, here is my idea.
> 
> Part of the marriage ceremony itself involves the lighting of a veremonial light (mental thesaurus not working) which symbolizes the unity of the couple under the Light.
> 
> ...



 I like the flame thing - very Apectan... a cool thing especially for the home.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

That works for me.

Anybody else have ideas?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I like the flame thing - very Apectan... a cool thing especially for the home.



 In that respect, the symbol for the Amistician may be different...

But, then again, do many Amistician devotees get married?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

I'm still pondering what would be the best personal symbol for marriage... with tatoos having such importance in KoA, I think some sort of magical marking - not a marking with magical powers, just one that is created magically - would be a cool way to display one's status... the Apectan sun on the back of the hand for devotees of the Apectan church... or possibly the infinity symbol...


----------



## Xath (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> In that respect, the symbol for the Amistician may be different...
> 
> But, then again, do many Amistician devotees get married?





Not only the Apectans follow the Light.  That's what it was meant to represent, more than a specific sect.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Not only the Apectans follow the Light.  That's what it was meant to represent, more than a specific sect.



 The Flame is directly connected to the Apectan order... so, in that sense, it seems very Apectan.

If the continual flame were simply a light (as the spell... more like a lightbulb), it would more directly connect to the general worship of the Light, I think.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Not only the Apectans follow the Light.  That's what it was meant to represent, more than a specific sect.



 Was not attempting to say that only the Apectans follow the Light.  But flame/fire is their "thing".


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

I dig the wedding thing.  Consider it official, unless someone objects.  Liz - what does Justice and the Duke have?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> In that respect, the symbol for the Amistician may be different...
> 
> But, then again, do many Amistician devotees get married?



Marriage is a distinctly Amastacian idea - in most cases, marriages are performed by Amastacian clergy, since part of her portfolio is love and marriage. Both kinds of clergy *can* perform marriages, but Amastacian marriages are the more common. 

The Amastacian ideal is that in early life, one learns _how_ to love, and then in later life, one devotes that love to the Light, and to Family.  The Amastacia was married and produced children, though officially those children were all killed in the War of the Damned - her writings and actual practice brook no other explanation. 



> I'm still pondering what would be the best personal symbol for marriage... with tatoos having such importance in KoA, I think some sort of magical marking - not a marking with magical powers, just one that is created magically - would be a cool way to display one's status... the Apectan sun on the back of the hand for devotees of the Apectan church... or possibly the infinity symbol...



 tattoos are usually martial symbols (eg the Talons) but they can serve in this capacity as well. It would certainly make things like divorce much harder to symbolize, since tattoos don't exactly wipe off. 

So far, the Candle/torch/continual flame thing seems to be a lock for the ceremony and a "home" thing. 

Do we want to have "carrying a piece of the flame" as the personal symbol, or the tattoos? 

*Note: All Marriages under the Light are marriages under the Light - Amastacian and Apectan Marriages use the same format, and both are equally recognized. So, whatever we come up with should have symbolism apropriate for both.


----------



## Xath (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The Flame is directly connected to the Apectan order... so, in that sense, it seems very Apectan.
> 
> If the continual flame were simply a light (as the spell... more like a lightbulb), it would more directly connect to the general worship of the Light, I think.





Hrm...maybe light with permanancy then.  I thought it would just make something become a light source.  I keep picturing something like a diamond that emits light, but not flame.  Though I suppose Apectans could use flames.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 14, 2004)

I really like the idea of having a tatoo... and, here's what I would propose:

The marriage tatoo magically appears as the ceremony is performed, slowly developing on the back of the hand and coming into full form as the couple illuminate their Continual Flame.

The actual symbol that appears is a mystery until it actually forms - however, the symbols are the same on the bride and the grooms hands.

The tatoo itself is an iridescent silver and gold that, though not distracting or overly-noticable, shimmers constantly.

Upon breaking the marriage vows, the tatoo looses its luster and shifts from iridescent to solid black.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I really like the idea of having a tatoo... and, here's what I would propose:
> 
> The marriage tatoo magically appears as the ceremony is performed, slowly developing on the back of the hand and coming into full form as the couple illuminate their Continual Flame.
> 
> ...



 Interesting, but would cost more. 

A synthesis:  

Poor couples, since they cannot afford the magic, don't have the tattoos, only the "pieces."  

"middle class" couples have more expensive talismans, and almost always have something with permanencied light or continual flame. - A glowing diamond in a locket (to dim the flame when necessary) or whatever thing they want.   

"upper class" couples and the nobility add the tattoo because it's essentially a beacon for infidelity (or that's probably how it started).  If the tattoo blackens, Baron Winterby knows that his wife's son is not the heir to the baronial seat - stuff like that.  Some middle class couple probably do this, as well, aping their social betters whenever possible. 

In all cases, the ceremonial "home" light is kept, and often passed down from one generation to the next.  

How's that for combining the two ideas?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Hrm...maybe light with permanancy then.  I thought it would just make something become a light source.  I keep picturing something like a diamond that emits light, but not flame.  Though I suppose Apectans could use flames.



 It doesn't matter - even amastacian's burn corpses.  The symbolism is not completely exclusive.  Just like almost all christian denominations venerate crosses, so too do most Light-ist denominations venerate flame, the "natural" source of Light.


----------



## Xath (Dec 14, 2004)

That's cool.  What does Justice's tatoo look like?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 14, 2004)

Note - noble couple will have a talisman and a tattoo.  The tattoo and the talisman are identical for both members of the married couple.


----------



## Xath (Dec 15, 2004)

What hand does the wedding tatoo appear on?  What if the bride/groom is a talon?  Does it overlay?  What if the person is an ex-talon and has no hand?  Then what?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> What hand does the wedding tatoo appear on?  What if the bride/groom is a talon?  Does it overlay?  What if the person is an ex-talon and has no hand?  Then what?



 It's on the back of the hand, not the plam.  It's located on the skin between the thumb and the index finger.  Large enough to be noticable, but not so large as to take up the whole of the hand.  And, it's on the right hand.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> That's cool.  What does Justice's tatoo look like?




It is a claw - much like the one attached.  Over the years of their marriage, it will be the cause of much debate between Varis and Justice.

"It is my symbol!  The greyclaw!" Varis will say.

"It is MY symbol!  The claw of a griffon!" Justice will respond.

And, it will continue into infinity.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Looks good.  

The same mark appears, from now on, on the banners and heraldry of the House of Greyclaw.  It's slightly different than the old "greyclaw" symbol. but still recognizable.  

It shines silver on the happy couple's hands.  

Now - we still have some questions as to the ward.  I'm happy to answer them...the sooner the ward comes down, the better all may be.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Okay: What's the plan for Khaz Borak??

What spells do we need prepared?
Justice will have these spells FOR SURE and, there will be many others she has preped, as well:
Create Water + Bless Water ... can I get my hands on one of those poison sprayers?  Fill it up with Holy Water and kill some undead!
Consecrate
Searing Light
Command
Hide from Undead
Protection from Evil
Remove Fear (for those of you that can experience it )
Prayer
Righteous Might

Do we need any equipment that we do not have with us?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Does someone remember what Rods we have to enhance spells?

Enlarge, Empower....


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Okay: What's the plan for Khaz Borak??
> 
> What spells do we need prepared?
> Justice will have these spells FOR SURE and, there will be many others she has preped, as well:
> Create Water + Holy Water ... can I get my hands on one of those poison sprayers? Fill it up with Holy Water and kill some undead!



Pneumatic pressure sprayers don't exist, and probably won't for at least 200 years, perhaps longer.  Good idea, though.  



> Consecrate
> Searing Light
> Command
> Hide from Undead
> ...



Maybe bring some holy water with you?  Use vials of holy water as grenades?  You have the benefit of knowing that *most* of what you fight, at least, will be undead...that should make planning a little easier.  The spell list looks pretty good...well prepared to "buff" yourself and other party members, as well as quick fixes for fear-based effects. I like what you have so far.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Does someone remember what Rods we have to enhance spells?
> 
> Enlarge, Empower....



 The T should know.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

*Just since it may come up more *

So on the marriage thing to see if I have it right?-

Marriage ceremonies are normally overseen by Priests or Priestesses of the Amastaian order; however, they are not the only ones who can officiate.

At the ceremony something is lit (mundanely or magically). If the people have the money it is permanenced to remind them always of the flame that unites them. The highest sign of this is a single diamond lit eternally, and then placed in honor at the home to show all the power of love within. There are many deviations and some even wear the eternally lit item on their person. The beacon of light from the ceremony is to reflect the Light that oversees all. The Light that holds them together. There is also a mundane way to show this union as well. A simple candle can be lit at the ceremony and is re-lit at each anniversary in remembrance of the union.

If funds are available an outward permanent sign is also created in the form of a tattoo. It is placed on the top of the hand between the thumb and forefinger usually at most about two inches by two inches. The design itself are left up to the couple, the more intricate the more costly. Some even have the tattoo’s magically enhanced to ensure true bloodlines, or merely to bring the two that much closer together.

Cool beans- lots of options for individual variance while still having a set typical form.

Question: 
So they choose what magic is in the tattoo or is it as with the talons ones a set ruling of what goes in? Like if the person commits infidelity mind or body it turns black? Things like that……?

Are the tattoos mandated to be a certain color- white for the purity of light? Or some such?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Vials will work just fine...

What if I attached vials of holy water to arrows for L'Aurel?  My ranged attack bonus isn't great but, it might make a cool addition to the enormous amount of damage she can already do.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So on the marriage thing to see if I have it right?-
> 
> Marriage ceremonies are normally overseen by Priests or Priestesses of the Amastaian order; however, they are not the only ones who can officiate.
> 
> ...



 Can you change the font color, Kat??

I don't see anything.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So they choose what magic is in the tattoo or is it as with the talons ones a set ruling of what goes in? Like if the person commits infidelity mind or body it turns black? Things like that……?
> 
> Are the tattoos mandated to be a certain color- white for the purity of light? Or some such?




The tattoo design is a mystery until the end of the ceremony, it slowly forms throughout the ceremony coming into full form as they light their symbol of devotion.

The tattoo is shimmery silver... if they break their marriage vows, it turns dull black.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Can you change the font color, Kat??
> I don't see anything.



Between computer and getting the website up before the 18th launch date, I'm not going to be quick with responces... but I'll get there just give me time 

Sometimes it changes it for me others times not...so I have to post and see what it does then edit.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The tattoo design is a mystery until the end of the ceremony, it slowly forms throughout the ceremony coming into full form as they light their symbol of devotion.
> 
> The tattoo is shimmery silver... if they break their marriage vows, it turns dull black.



 The gem that Justice and the Duke illuminated is a red opal - if you look hard, almost the way you would at a Magic Eye picture, it appears that there is a phoenix within the 3-dimensional sparkles of the gem.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The tattoo design is a mystery until the end of the ceremony, it slowly forms throughout the ceremony coming into full form as they light their symbol of devotion.
> 
> The tattoo is shimmery silver... if they break their marriage vows, it turns dull black.



So the Light or preist dictates what the design is?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Between computer and getting the website up before the 18th launch date, I'm not going to be quick with responces... but I'll get there just give me time
> 
> Sometimes it changes it for me others times not...so I have to post and see what it does then edit.



 That's fine!  I can see it now...    Thanks!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So the Light or preist dictates what the design is?



 I'd say it's a reflection of the people that are getting married.  So, I suppose you could say the Light does it... sort of like the magic searches their individual characters and selects a symbol that represents them as individuals and as a couple.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Vials will work just fine...
> 
> What if I attached vials of holy water to arrows for L'Aurel? My ranged attack bonus isn't great but, it might make a cool addition to the enormous amount of damage she can already do.



Will check to see if I can add- I think it would only be damage from one or the other- either bow, arrows, and favorite enemy or bow and vials... but not sure.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Will check to see if I can add- I think it would only be damage from one or the other- either bow, arrows, and favorite enemy or bow and vials... but not sure.



 It would just add the the amount of damage Holy Water does to undead (2d6 + splash damage? or is that too much?) to the damage you already do, I believe.

Just wondering how Kennon would work it.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So on the marriage thing to see if I have it right?-
> 
> Marriage ceremonies are normally overseen by Priests or Priestesses of the Amastaian order; however, they are not the only ones who can officiate.
> 
> At the ceremony something is lit (mundanely or magically). If the people have the money it is permanenced to remind them always of the flame that unites them. The highest sign of this is a single diamond lit eternally, and then placed in honor at the home to show all the power of love within. There are many deviations and some even wear the eternally lit item on their person. The beacon of light from the ceremony is to reflect the Light that oversees all. The Light that holds them together. There is also a mundane way to show this union as well. A simple candle can be lit at the ceremony and is re-lit at each anniversary in remembrance of the union.



Pretty much - although no one wears the _actual_ light.  If it's a gem, a stone of the same type is usually enchanted to glow, and then set in a ring or pendant.  If it's just a candle, shavings of the candle are taken and placed in lockets, or something similar.  In al lcases, the eternal item is kept in the home, and unveiled (or lit) on the anniversary.



> If funds are available an outward permanent sign is also created in the form of a tattoo. It is placed on the top of the hand between the thumb and forefinger usually at most about two inches by two inches. The design itself are left up to the couple, the more intricate the more costly. Some even have the tattoo’s magically enhanced to ensure true bloodlines, or merely to bring the two that much closer together.



All the magic tattoos do the same thing - essentially, they enforce the marriage oaths.  If any of the oaths are broken, the tattoos (usually an iridescent silver or gold) blacken, to reveal publicly the infidelity. This has a side effect of ensuring the security of bloodlines, etc.  

The actual shape of the tattoo is not chosen by the couple. The tattoo is unique for every couple, and usually symbolizes something important for them.  The magic is weaved through the words of the ceremony, and at the end, the tattoos just appear (which makes them not precisely tattoos).  The magic of the oath chooses the tattoos form.  



> Cool beans- lots of options for individual variance while still having a set typical form.
> 
> Question:
> So they choose what magic is in the tattoo or is it as with the talons ones a set ruling of what goes in? Like if the person commits infidelity mind or body it turns black? Things like that……?
> ...



Infidelity of mind is not enough - but the tattoo knows if you've physically broken your oaths, and will react as such.  In the church, a couple cannot seek divorce unless one or both of their tattoos are blackened.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

I think there are Holy Water arrows detailed in the Arms and Equipment Guide.  

The damage holy water does to undead (I believe) is detailed in the PHB (and SRD)


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Do undead pose a greater threat of dealing: poison, desease, or ability damage?
If you had to pick one that was the greatest threat?

Obviously not asking Kennon as the DM since he's making the creatures... unless he wants to  J/K


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

*H2o*

From the SRD on Holy Water: 



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Holy Water*: Holy water damages undead creatures and evil outsiders almost as if it were acid. A flask of holy water can be thrown as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A flask breaks if thrown against the body of a corporeal creature, but to use it against an incorporeal creature, you must open the flask and pour the holy water out onto the target. Thus, you can douse an incorporeal creature with holy water only if you are adjacent to it. Doing so is a ranged touch attack that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
> A direct hit by a flask of holy water deals 2d4 points of damage to an undead creature or an evil outsider. Each such creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of damage from the splash.
> 
> Temples to good deities sell holy water at cost (making no profit). A flask of Holy Water (at cost) costs 25 GP, and weighs 1 lb.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

*In general, the following is true of Undead*

(I'm just assuming that someone can roll a high enough Knowledge: Religion check to get this - it's not universally true, but this is the way it is *most* of the time)
*Undead Type*: Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.

_Features_: (You don't get to know these - but you can know the traits)

_Traits_: An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). 


No Constitution score.

Darkvision out to 60 feet.

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.

Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.

Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.

Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.

Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.

Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.

Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Do undead pose a greater threat of dealing: poison, desease, or ability damage?
> If you had to pick one that was the greatest threat?
> 
> Obviously not asking Kennon as the DM since he's making the creatures... unless he wants to  J/K



 I can answer that - I think poison is the least common undead ability.  Lots do ability damage and can level drain - but not a majority by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

First off thanks, the summary pretty much gives clues for spell list   I assume as Liz did, since we know this fight is happening try to come prepared with usable spell list (For those of us who have to choose daily)

And no critical hits unless that one level of ranger for favorite enemy undead


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I can answer that - I think poison is the least common undead ability.  Lots do ability damage and can level drain - but not a majority by any stretch of the imagination.



 My guess - we're going to really need Xath's Con Song.

I'll have Lesser Restoration and Restoration preped, though.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> First off thanks, the summary pretty much gives clues for spell list   I assume as Liz did, since we know this fight is happening try to come prepared with usable spell list (For those of us who have to choose daily)
> 
> And no critical hits unless that one level of ranger for favorite enemy undead



 Or if you happen to be armed with Shadowseeker.  x4 Critical to undead!  YAY!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Or if you happen to be armed with Shadowseeker.  x4 Critical to undead!  YAY!



 Maybe it's only x3... I can't remember.

Either way, it's AWESOME.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Or if you happen to be armed with Shadowseeker. x4 Critical to undead! YAY!



What dare I ask is Shadowseeker?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> First off thanks, the summary pretty much gives clues for spell list  I assume as Liz did, since we know this fight is happening try to come prepared with usable spell list (For those of us who have to choose daily)
> 
> And no critical hits unless that one level of ranger for favorite enemy undead



I'll houserule that L'Aurel and Archon, assuming they threaten and confirm a critical, have a 50% chance of that actually applying, because of their status as favored enemies. 

So, essentially, roll crits normally, and then there's a 50% chance that it will just be normal damage. 

Justice's sword - Shadowseeker - lets her crit undead as part of its abilities. It's essentially a "Sun sword" from the DMG with a few extra details...the same sword she's had since Thanesport, in fact.

EDIT: This is a change in house rule.  Before, I have allowed the two rangers to crit undead normally.  That was too much - this still gives them some benefit to having undead as a favored enemy, but not so much that it is ridiculous.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I'll houserule that L'Aurel and Archon, assuming they threaten and confirm a critical, have a 50% chance of that actually applying, because of their status as favored enemies.
> 
> So, essentially, roll crits normally, and then there's a 50% chance that it will just be normal damage.
> 
> ...



 Got it the second time we were in Thanesport - took it from a draconid we killed that was following Darkson.

It's a Sun Blade with the Flaming Burst and Flame Tounge abilities.  Recently, she had it enhanced so that it does Holy Damage, as well.

It does extra damage to all evil and undead creatures - though it does even more to undead.

In short, Shadowseeker rocks.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

*To add along side Fists of Doom and Staff of Destruction*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Got it the second time we were in Thanesport - took it from a draconid we killed that was following Darkson.
> It's a Sun Blade with the Flaming Burst and Flame Tounge abilities. Recently, she had it enhanced so that it does Holy Damage, as well.
> It does extra damage to all evil and undead creatures - though it does even more to undead.
> In short, Shadowseeker rocks.



So it does (+4 magical against evil + 1d6 (flaming) + 2d10 + STR) all x2 for regular damge against undead or x3 for critical. 
Without even looking at the added Holy Damage..... 
Even without the crit. I can see why you say it rocks.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So it does (+4 magical against evil + 1d6 (flaming) + 2d10 + STR) all x2 for regular damge against undead or x3 for critical.
> Without even looking at the added Holy Damage.....
> Even without the crit. I can see why you say it rocks.



 When I crit, it also does 1do10 flaming instead of 1d6.

It's complicated.  But, freakin' rocks.


----------



## Xath (Dec 15, 2004)

Would Axiomatic damage apply to undead?  Is there a standard alignment?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Would Axiomatic damage apply to undead?  Is there a standard alignment?



 As a general rule, most un-intelligent undead are not chaotic...


----------



## Xath (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath has a rod of Lesser Quickening, Maximization, and Absorption.

As well as a Staff of Healing.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath has a rod of Lesser Quickening, Maximization, and Absorption.
> 
> As well as a Staff of Healing.



 Trying to think of a way that I could amp up the amount of water Justice can bless at one time - spell designates only 1 pint/casting.  

However, it would be really handy if I could create water way up in the air and make it only as it falls down onto the undead...

But, that plan loses a little something if the holy deluge (spelling?) is only a pint of water instead of several gallons...


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Would Axiomatic damage apply to undead?  Is there a standard alignment?



 Unintelligent Undead are almost always neutral.  Intelligent undead generally sit in the evil category, with the law/chaos variable undetermined except by specific type.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath has a rod of Lesser Quickening, Maximization, and Absorption.
> 
> As well as a Staff of Healing.



 Staff of healing should work to damage most undead, as well as heal party members.  Definitely want to have that baby equipped.


----------



## Xath (Dec 15, 2004)

Lesser Restoration is only 1 charge, and it's at full now.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Trying to think of a way that I could amp up the amount of water Justice can bless at one time - spell designates only 1 pint/casting.
> 
> However, it would be really handy if I could create water way up in the air and make it only as it falls down onto the undead...
> 
> But, that plan loses a little something if the holy deluge (spelling?) is only a pint of water instead of several gallons...



 Spelled correctly.

I don't think the create water/bless water combo is going to work quite that well.  You'd have to quicken create water in order to make it work, I think. 

Regardless, you can only bless a pint at a time.  Once more - good idea...but you need an army of clerics to make it effective.


----------



## Xath (Dec 15, 2004)

If we could get a wand of Bear's Endurance before we go in, that would be helpful.  We have the ring gate, right?  

Right now we have 2 wands of Bull Strength, but that's all of the stat increase.

Perhaps a wand of Eagle's Splendor as well for improved Turning and Fast Healing.


----------



## Xath (Dec 15, 2004)

*The Resource List*

Here's the updated list of available resources.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Spelled correctly.
> 
> I don't think the create water/bless water combo is going to work quite that well.  You'd have to quicken create water in order to make it work, I think.
> 
> Regardless, you can only bless a pint at a time.  Once more - good idea...but you need an army of clerics to make it effective.



 Well, it's not hard to cast Bless Water... I could have all of my little cleric followers there casting away.



How cool would that be?!


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Spelled correctly.
> 
> I don't think the create water/bless water combo is going to work quite that well. You'd have to quicken create water in order to make it work, I think.
> 
> Regardless, you can only bless a pint at a time. Once more - good idea...but you need an army of clerics to make it effective.



L'Aurel could have helped greatly by providing the water.... Isn't there a scroll/wand that increases range affected, could this be applied to amount blessed?  Looking through SRD to see what's there... like the image of acid rain on undead.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> If we could get a wand of Bear's Endurance before we go in, that would be helpful.  We have the ring gate, right?
> 
> Right now we have 2 wands of Bull Strength, but that's all of the stat increase.
> 
> Perhaps a wand of Eagle's Splendor as well for improved Turning and Fast Healing.



 You're also still in the frozen North, and could buy those items from the Bluestar faster, without hindering preparations for other operations.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> If we could get a wand of Bear's Endurance before we go in, that would be helpful.  We have the ring gate, right?
> 
> Right now we have 2 wands of Bull Strength, but that's all of the stat increase.
> 
> Perhaps a wand of Eagle's Splendor as well for improved Turning and Fast Healing.



 Justice has a wand of Eagle's Splendor... has like 46 charges.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Well, it's not hard to cast Bless Water... I could have all of my little cleric followers there casting away.
> 
> 
> 
> How cool would that be?!



 You probably don't want to bring your followers into Khaz Barok. 



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> L'Aurel could have helped greatly by providing the water.... Isn't there a scroll/wand that increases range affected, could this be applied to amount blessed? Looking through SRD to see what's there... like the image of acid rain on undead.



 Worth looking into.  I'm not averse to the idea.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> L'Aurel could have helped greatly by providing the water.... Isn't there a scroll/wand that increases range affected, could this be applied to amount blessed?  Looking through SRD to see what's there... like the image of acid rain on undead.



 We just can't make enough of it Holy to do anything... only 1 pint of water can be made Holy/casting.... can't increase that.

Would need a WHOLE BUNCH of Clerics... which, if requested, Justice could provide... they would just need to get teleported to Khaz Borak.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

*Read Me*

Also, remember that you could march around in Khaz Barok for days killing undead without ever finding what powers the deathward/Quarion's Wall. The dwarves that lived there don't know what it is/was, so it's not likely that there will be signs labelling it. 

You're doing a great job preparing for the tactical arm of what's about to take place, but learning more about what you're looking for (and how to shut it down/destroy it) is also a necessity.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We just can't make enough of it Holy to do anything... only 1 pint of water can be made Holy/casting.... can't increase that.
> 
> Would need a WHOLE BUNCH of Clerics... which, if requested, Justice could provide... they would just need to get teleported to Khaz Borak.



Enlarge spell might increase the volume of water that could be blessed.  MIGHT.  Any ideas?  

As for followers, Khaz Barok is a dangerous place that drove a whole city of dwarves out of itself half a century ago.  They had clerics, too...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> You probably don't want to bring your followers into Khaz Barok.
> 
> Worth looking into.  I'm not averse to the idea.



 We have a rod of Enlarge - that increases the range... but, would have increase the *amount* of water made Holy?


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> If we could get a wand of Bear's Endurance before we go in, that would be helpful. We have the ring gate, right?
> 
> Right now we have 2 wands of Bull Strength, but that's all of the stat increase.
> 
> Perhaps a wand of Eagle's Splendor as well for improved Turning and Fast Healing.



Not sure what Jansten has but he could be able to help on some of these... he seems a little full of himself and has a set way of fighting, but never hurts to try.... it would use up his spells though also....


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

*Not much of a spell caster.... so not sure on these but...*



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> HEIGHTEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
> *Benefit*: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> SRD said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, remember that you could march around in Khaz Barok for days killing undead without ever finding what powers the deathward/Quarion's Wall. The dwarves that lived there don't know what it is/was, so it's not likely that there will be signs labelling it.
> 
> You're doing a great job preparing for the tactical arm of what's about to take place, but learning more about what you're looking for (and how to shut it down/destroy it) is also a necessity.



From centuries of being a hero who is titled as having made the wall, what do we know about Quarion? His magic, his ways.....

Did the bluestar get any information about what it wasn't?  Things he thought is was, but turned out to be false.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We have a rod of Enlarge - that increases the range... but, would have increase the *amount* of water made Holy?





			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> *Benefit*: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
> It amplifies a spell up to level 9... so changing a lesser spell to a greater spell? Applied to bless water amplified, could add to how much water is blessed....? maybe?



 Heighten spell just increases the save DC, not the amount of water produced. Unless there is something in Complete Arcane or Complete Divine, I think it's a wash. Enlarge won't work, since it just increases the range. 

As far as I can tell, none of the standard metamagic feats can help, since at best they can increase *variable* spell effects by half. Even without the *variable* limit, you'd still only end up with 1.5 pints of holy water when it was all over. 

I think we need to move on.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Makes sense like I said not a magic user 

Also, just read the actual Bless Water spell it couldn't work in general since it is a touch spell probably reason it's such a small amount.  Target: flask of water touched.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Bless Water isn't caster level dependent, though. You just get one pint of water/casting.... and, it takes a full minute to cast.



 Was just trying to help with your idea/plan. Got it, so moving on.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Think we're best off making use of pre-prepared vials of the stuff... using them as grenades or... making holy arrows out of it.



 What damage does it do?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Was just trying to help with your idea/plan. Got it, so moving on.
> 
> What damage does it do?



 I appreciate your help very much.    Was just making observations about the spell as I noticed them.

Not attempting to hinder the moving on - apologies if my responses are slow.  Boards are lagging and I'm working.  

Will have to look up damage when I get home - it's in the Arms and Equipment Guide.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, remember that you could march around in Khaz Barok for days killing undead without ever finding what powers the deathward/Quarion's Wall. The dwarves that lived there don't know what it is/was, so it's not likely that there will be signs labelling it.
> 
> You're doing a great job preparing for the tactical arm of what's about to take place, but learning more about what you're looking for (and how to shut it down/destroy it) is also a necessity.



 How are we supposed to go about doing that?  Is there someone in particular that we can ask?

Learning about Quarion will do some good... but, since it is a deep secret of the ages, how would you suggest we begin preparing for the ward-disabling portion of the mission, Kennon?

Can we Commune with Preston through the Ring Gate to try to find out more information?  

Ask Penny what she knows/can find out?  Randall?  Dorn?


----------



## Xath (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath set out from Sylvannus to free Khaz Barok from the clutches of the Bluestar.  What did she learn in her preperations?  Are there any legends about the artifact?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath set out from Sylvannus to free Khaz Barok from the clutches of the Bluestar.  What did she learn in her preperations?  Are there any legends about the artifact?



 Maybe roll a Bardic Knowledge check?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

*From the Encyclopaedia Historae (Volume XXIII)*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> From centuries of being a hero who is titled as having made the wall, what do we know about Quarion? His magic, his ways.....
> 
> Did the bluestar get any information about what it wasn't? Things he thought is was, but turned out to be false.



Quarion enters the history books as a Captain in the Army of the Eastern Dragon Empire. Born in what is now known as Fortress Falconus as the son of an Imperial noble, he quickly rose through the ranks of the Eastern Empire's military, garnering a command for himself by the age of 25. 

Quarion was born into a family that worshipped the pretender-God Aon, and it is assumed (although not documented) that he converted to the Church of the Light shortly after its founding by the Apecto and Amastacia. A hard division between the two sects had not formed while Quarion was alive, and thus it is unknown which (if either) sect he would have chosen, if given the opportunity. 

Quarion was probably distantly related to the Amastacia, herself. They shared a last name, but came from entirely different families. The mid-elf Great House of Goldenblade is populated by the descendents of his line. Quarion married a common woman, and had three children, most of which followed him in military service of some type or another. 

He served the Eastern Empire with distinction for a time, and then for reasons that historians continue to debate, he defected, bringing his men and expertise into the service of the Falcon King, Maelwys in the opening months of the Freedom War. 

He served with distinction throughout the freedom war, leading his men into countless battles, sharing the stage with heroes like the Apecto, the Amastacia, and the Woodshadow (and the Bluestar) somewhat frequently. He is credited with saving the Woodshadow's life at least twice, and is widely assumed that due to his close association, he saved the lives of other heroes, as well. 

He is generally depicted wearing a golden breastplate, and carrying a sword roughly similar in size and shape to what Justice now carries - a single-edged bastard sword, essentially. 

He is credited with orchestrating the capture (and later burning) of Caer Melyn, as well as the capture of the small settlement that is now known as Quarion's Rest. He built a fortress on the sire of an old Imperial mansion, and the *current* settlement has grown around that site.

Because of his military prowess, Quarion was elevated to the rank of "Dux Bellorum" (Duke of War) in the old Falcon Kingdom, with his contemporary - Zao Jade - given command of the Army of Prydein (at the time, the only army). 

He retired briefly after the Freedom War, expanding the settlement around Quarion's rest, near the ruins of Caer Melyn. Once the War of the Damned broke out, he volunteered his services to the King, and was immediately accepted. Throughout that war, Quarion is credited with numerous victories (and some losses, such as the second burning of Caer Melyn, resulting in the deaths of the Amastacia and her children), but none as noteworthy as the last. 

While an army led by the Apecto clashed with the Bluestar's forces in what is now Thanesport, Quarion took his own forces deep into the North, and began the construction of what is now known as Quarion's wall. With the help of a unit of dwarven warriors/engineers from the former Eastern Empire known only as the *Builders of Dumathion*, Quarion was able to construct the great stone wall in what amounted to a matter of days. 

A group of dwarves from Citadel Refuge joined him in defending the wall from attack on both sides of the great ring, and there he waited for the signal from his compatriots that the Bluestar had fallen. At the end of the climactic battle between the Bluestar and the Apecto that ended in the Apecto's death, the Bluestar's twisted spirit rushed north to his phylactery, a device of unknown type and origin. Once in the North, Quarion is said to have summoned a great and unkown magic from the depths of the earth, itself, sealing the wall (and the coastline) of the Deathlands (once Eiryn) from the rest of the Falcon Kingdom. 

Leaderless, many of the Bluestar's living forces surrendered. The walking dead were eliminated (as much as was possible) over time. 

Quarion spent the next decade organizing a force to guard the wall from mundane incursions, eventually developing into the Army of the Watch (also known as the Golden Watch, since their early uniforms included gold-burnished breastplates modelled after the Great generals' own). 

At the end of that decade, with the Deathlands secured, Quarion retired to his home at Quarion's Rest, ruling the lands around Fortress Falconus by proxy, and continuing to improve the settlement around his own home. 

Quarion is credited with overseeing the monuments' to the Amastacia and Apecto creation, as well as leading the search for the lost Woodshadow, eventually pushing to have him declared dead. It is also said that he also oversaw the construction the Amastacia and the Apecto's tombs,* as well as tombs for himself, Maelwys, and the Woodshadow (should he be found). 

Quarion Goldenblade (as he had come to be known) died in his bed, at the age of 167, surrounded by his children and grandchildren. Quarion was cremated by his own request, and his ashes interred in his tomb.** He was canonized by the Church of the Light shortly after his death, and a small (but dedicated) sect of priests continue to revere him as a patron, on through the present.*** 

*Location lost/unknown
**also lost. 
***The Order of the Golden Shield has a basilica at Quarion's Rest and Fortress Falconus. It has small temples in a few other locations, but none of note.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> From centuries of being a hero who is titled as having made the wall, what do we know about Quarion? His magic, his ways.....
> 
> Did the bluestar get any information about what it wasn't?  Things he thought is was, but turned out to be false.



 Well, he knows that whatever it is is not "Holy" in the traditional sense, and that the ward is at least partially keyed specifically to him, and those of his blood.  

But beyond that, he doesn't know.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Well - information could come from a number of sources:  talking with some of the priests dedicated to him if ... and, if any of his line still live, should ask them what they know... and, we may want to search his fortress...

But, if we were to do any of that, we would need to do it without letting anyone know why we _are_ doing it.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Quarion was probably distantly related to the Amastacia, herself. They shared a last name, but came from entirely different families. The mid-elf Great House of Goldenblade is populated by the descendents of his line. Quarion married a common woman, and had three children, most of which followed him in military service of some type or another.



 Hey Archy, know anything that might be useful... know anyone by the last name of Goldenblade???  Since IC I still don't think anyone but perhaps Xath knows about her.  Don't know all the convos though so could be wrong on that.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

L'Aurel, before the re-livification, would technically have been related to Quarion... now, she's too distant to really have it *count* in a biological sense... but, if the ward is keyed to those that have his blood, would it be keyed to L'Aurel?

Would it still be now that she is new L'Aurel?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> What damage does it do?



 2d4



			
				Queen Doppelpopolis said:
			
		

> How are we supposed to go about doing that? Is there someone in particular that we can ask?
> 
> Learning about Quarion will do some good... but, since it is a deep secret of the ages, how would you suggest we begin preparing for the ward-disabling portion of the mission, Kennon?
> 
> ...



 In general, if you ask specific questions, I will direct you as to how you might find answers.  Some of which are unknowable in an "easy" sense, and must be _deduced_ from other information.  



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Xath set out from Sylvannus to free Khaz Barok from the clutches of the Bluestar. What did she learn in her preperations? Are there any legends about the artifact?



 IIRC, she left sylvanus because her step-father wanted to encourage her to be more "dwarfy" and because an uncle offered her a position at the Concillary Mansion in Thanesport.  However, since I am sure that Khaz Barok was on her mind...

There are no legends about an artifact.  The assumption in most circles is that the ward was not artifact based, but just some permanent magical effect.  That may be right or wrong...only what you know about the dwarves bringing something from Citadel Refuge suggests otherwise.  

Khaz Barok can probably be freed at any time, as long as there is a willingness to expend the manpower.  But with so few survivors, and the cost of re-conquering the city so potentially high, it was simply sealed off - there were other priorities in the world.  It has remained as such, and only the Bluestar's prompting has made it otherwise.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 15, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> L'Aurel, before the re-livification, would technically have been related to Quarion... now, she's too distant to really have it *count* in a biological sense... but, if the ward is keyed to those that have his blood, would it be keyed to L'Aurel?
> 
> Would it still be now that she is new L'Aurel?



 The ward is keyed to those who have the blood of the Bluestar, not Quarion - sorry that wasn't clear.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The ward is keyed to those who have the blood of the Bluestar, not Quarion - sorry that wasn't clear.



 Ahh, I see.

Well then, nevermind with that plan.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Hey Archy, know anything that might be useful... know anyone by the last name of Goldenblade???  Since IC I still don't think anyone but perhaps Xath knows about her.  Don't know all the convos though so could be wrong on that.



 Indeed, it may be time for Archonus to tell the Circle of his first love, Dara.


----------



## Archon (Dec 15, 2004)

*1st love, 1st mistake*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Indeed, it may be time for Archonus to tell the Circle of his first love, Dara.



she's just a descendent. i doubt she knows much about her ancestor that we do not already know. it's like asking Archon about the Bluestar. Plus, lets not forget who she works for now.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 16, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> she's just a descendent. i doubt she knows much about her ancestor that we do not already know. it's like asking Archon about the Bluestar. Plus, lets not forget who she works for now.



 Target?


----------



## Laurel (Dec 16, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> she's just a descendent. i doubt she knows much about her ancestor that we do not already know. it's like asking Archon about the Bluestar. Plus, lets not forget who she works for now.



If we know this IC now-- 
Can we:
A) Ask the Bluestar if he got anything from her? if he hasn't even asked can we talk to her?
B) Ask Aregonn Bluestar or Archonus Bluestar, Why/how she came to serve Aregonn? (Had to write that out since I realized they have the same initials) 
C) Ask AA or AB, did she show a certain pension for any particular type of magic? 
D) Ask AA, did she have any other family still alive?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> If we know this IC now--
> Can we:
> A) Ask the Bluestar if he got anything from her? if he hasn't even asked can we talk to her?



He's...talked to her...at length.  



> B) Ask Aregonn Bluestar or Archonus Bluestar, Why/how she came to serve Aregonn? (Had to write that out since I realized they have the same initials)



 She was in the Deathlands with another Talon Justice named Laren Nightgrove...they were confronted by a patrol of the Bluestar's.  Laren ran, she was captured.  She didn't/doesn't remember anything after that. 



> C) Ask AA or AB, did she show a certain pension for any particular type of magic?



 Definitely has displayed the use of arcane spellcasting.



> D) Ask AA, did she have any other family still alive?



She had/has a brother, and as far as you know both of her parents are still alive.  She has lots of living cousins, etc.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 16, 2004)

Do we even know IC that Archonus was with Dara?  I don't think Justice does.


----------



## Xath (Dec 16, 2004)

I don't even know if Xath does, to tell you the truth...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I don't even know if Xath does, to tell you the truth...



 I'm thinking that's something that AA has been keeping to himself... the fact that she existed at all until yesterday was on the outskirts of my memory...

So, like I said yesterday, I think that AA probably has something to share with his closest, dearest friends about his past.  

I think Archonus is the only one left in the Circle that keeps any secrets...  *shock and awe*


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I don't even know if Xath does, to tell you the truth...



 Cue the brooding - Lightening, wind, rain, and the theme from Batman - the moment the Goldenblade name is mentioned.

Bah-duh-duh-duh-daaaaaaaaa-duh!  (that was the Batman theme... doesn't translate well into text, does it?)


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 16, 2004)

I don't know if a secret ex-girlfriend is enough to provoke the batman theme - seems a little weak.  

Apparently, they broke up before she got turned, so it shouldn't be all that traumatic.


----------



## Xath (Dec 16, 2004)

I thought she ran away because of his mark.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I thought she ran away because of his mark.



 Nope - everyone in the Justices knew of the mark - no way to hide it 24-7 in a no-privacy style environment.  

She "ran away" because she was assigned to a mission, just as he was - they broke it off...for reasons I am still not clear on.  But I do have it on good authority that they broke up before they parted ways.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 16, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I don't know if a secret ex-girlfriend is enough to provoke the batman theme - seems a little weak.
> 
> Apparently, they broke up before she got turned, so it shouldn't be all that traumatic.



 You know Archonus - even if something is totally not his fault, he'll find a way to *make* it his fault.

However, I am excited to learn of his youthful exploits... hopefully, he'll share the information.


----------



## Archon (Dec 16, 2004)

*Old Flame*

i have always been under the assumption that Archon and Dara DID break up because of the Mark. and it wouldn't be too hard to hide the mark, especially under those big silver masks.
As far as Archon sharing his past, yeah, i don't even think Xath knows about Dara, let alone anyone else in the group.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 16, 2004)

*Clarifications*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> i have always been under the assumption that Archon and Dara DID break up because of the Mark. and it wouldn't be too hard to hide the mark, especially under those big silver masks.
> As far as Archon sharing his past, yeah, i don't even think Xath knows about Dara, let alone anyone else in the group.



We played this out, at one point - during the same time we did the "flashbacks/flash forwards" of Archon's potential futures. The masks are carried, but not worn until the student officially becomes a Justice. They are a mark of honor, and are never to be placed over the face until the prospective Justice has earned that right. 

Admittedly, it was some months ago, but I think I have made it pretty clear after continous comments that if the mark made Dara leave, it was not because of what **she** thought of the mark, but rather what *_*Archon*_* thought of the mark.

EDIT - It was also noted at the time that Archon's rivalry with Laren Nightgrove was established (if that helps jog the memory).


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 16, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i have always been under the assumption that Archon and Dara DID break up because of the Mark. and it wouldn't be too hard to hide the mark, especially under those big silver masks.
> As far as Archon sharing his past, yeah, i don't even think Xath knows about Dara, let alone anyone else in the group.



 Well - does he *plan* to tell us?


----------



## Archon (Dec 16, 2004)

*"Freak Out!"*

I know when we started the game i had it in my back story that Archons first girlfriend left him because "he showed her the mark." I also remember going back and RPing Archons past. Even then though she was still surprised. Maybe all these years it's been a misunderstanding. Maybe he just thought that her surprise and revulsion and left her before she could explain herself. 
I'm just saying that the encounter was a turning point for Archon and as i first understood it she "freaked out" and that reaction sent Archon on the introverted path we all know and love.


----------



## Archon (Dec 16, 2004)

*"The Clam"*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Well - does he *plan* to tell us?



Honestly, not really. that's his own business and the information that he'd have on her wouldn't tell us anything about her ancestor.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 16, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> I know when we started the game i had it in my back story that Archons first girlfriend left him because "he showed her the mark." I also remember going back and RPing Archons past. Even then though she was still surprised. Maybe all these years it's been a misunderstanding. Maybe he just thought that her surprise and revulsion and left her before she could explain herself.
> I'm just saying that the encounter was a turning point for Archon and as i first understood it she "freaked out" and that reaction sent Archon on the introverted path we all know and love.



 That's an adequate explanation, and works for me.  

Although, OOC you can all know that the next time he saw her, she was VERY attracted to the mark.  She could also cast spells.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 16, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Honestly, not really. that's his own business and the information that he'd have on her wouldn't tell us anything about her ancestor.



 A couple of months ago OOC and, only a few days ago IC, L'Aurel had a talk with Justice - telling her that the Circle cannot have secrets from one another.

I think this is a very important standard to hold to, especially now that we are approaching the end of the game.  

True, it's fun to RP with the secrets.  However, at this point, I do think it's important that you take into consideration that the success of the next mission could (not does) rest on knowledge you hold about the Goldenblade family - Archonus is the only one with the knowledge... and, if he is deliberately holding in back in hopes that the mission _will_ fail, that may be a breaking of the Oath.

Not trying to shake things up or piss anyone off - but, I do think that Kat made a good point in the "no secrets in the Circle" thing.

But, if you choose not to share it, you choose not to share it.  Maybe it won't be important.  Maybe, we'll walk into Khaz Borak and clean house and push a magic button that makes everything better... but, maybe not.  

So, just keep that in mind, Mik as your connections may become very important.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 17, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I think Archonus is the only one left in the Circle that keeps any secrets... *shock and awe*



Right... HA!


----------



## Laurel (Dec 17, 2004)

Um.... No more secrets is a BIG thing for L'Aurel currently. This isn't to Mik/Archonus specifically, don't worry. 
But as forewarning unless there is a reason to keep it secret, just the 'Hey, I don't want to talk about' and 'couldn't find the right time' is getting old and wearing thin and in some cases leaving us without valid info that could be useful...... so just realize the longer it's kept from the circle especially once a time when it could have come up the more she honestly feels that person is breaking thier oath to stand as a circle of one, I believe were the words.....


----------



## Laurel (Dec 17, 2004)

I know we didn't fight last time, but do we get any XP... just one point even


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I know we didn't fight last time, but do we get any XP... just one point even



 Yes you get XP - is anyone close to leveling?  If not, I'll just wait and fold it in to the next part of the game.  However, if someone *is* close to leveling, and the amount in question would be sufficient to kick them up a notch, I'll award it now.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Honestly, not really. that's his own business and the information that he'd have on her wouldn't tell us anything about her ancestor.



 We aren't looking for information specifically *about* Quarion, though either.  We're looking for information he may have passed down.


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

*This is where the music gets louder.*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> But as forewarning unless there is a reason to keep it secret, just the 'Hey, I don't want to talk about' and 'couldn't find the right time' is getting old and wearing thin and in some cases leaving us without valid info that could be useful...... so just realize the longer it's kept from the circle especially once a time when it could have come up the more she honestly feels that person is breaking thier oath to stand as a circle of one, I believe were the words.....





			
				Queen_Doppelpopolis said:
			
		

> True, it's fun to RP with the secrets. However, at this point, I do think it's important that you take into consideration that the success of the next mission could (not does) rest on knowledge you hold about the Goldenblade family - Archonus is the only one with the knowledge... and, if he is deliberately holding in back in hopes that the mission _will_ fail, that may be a breaking of the Oath.
> 
> Not trying to shake things up or piss anyone off - but, I do think that Kat made a good point in the "no secrets in the Circle" thing.



Great points, Liz and Kat.  I agree 111%

As a general note, this is the part of the story where everything/everyone is supposed to start to come together. This is where Cyclops and Wolverine put aside their differences to go fight Magneto, where the group finally settles into their "perfect" roles, and defeat evil with the strength of their bonds of loyalty, etc. and then ride off into the sunset, or whatever. 

We're approaching the finale(s) of our grand epic, and so getting the little interpersonal squabbles resolved is very important. Your characters have all bitched and bickered at eachother (sometimes with incredible ferocity) since approximately level 4. 10 (or more) levels later, your characters *should* have changed enough to be able to *finally* work as a well-oiled machine, _both in combat and out_. 

So, EVERYONE, start making sure that the character you're _playing_ is the character you want _remembered_. Talk to me if you don't see a way to make that happen, and I will gladly work with you to _make_ it happen.

Lastly, don't let your character constrict you. I appreciate some of the in-depth roleplaying that goes on (almost all of it, really) but it's ok to take a step back and say, "Hey, he/she isn't real. I decide what he/she does, and I want it to end like this..."

Make your characters _dynamic_, make them seem "real" as much as is possible - but they are just parts of a story...and there's no sense making your part of the story something that you don't want it to be. 

It's very important. You are _heroes, _regardless of what alignment you have on your sheet. Remember to act like it. Boromir may have been a punk, but he went out like a _*champ*_.

My two cents - my two huge, omniscient, reality-bending cents.


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## Archon (Dec 17, 2004)

*Closer*

The people of the Phoenix Kingdom will remember Archonus as a hero (hopefully), but the Circle/players will remember him as "that jerk that got the Queen pregnant then left her after she was paralized". I feel like no matter what i do Archon will be remembered as an jerk.
If kennon tells me that Archon knows something relevent about Dara then i'll have him say something.
It's no secret that Archon has been drifting away from everyone of late. The last two major decisions he has held the minority (or solitary) vote. Maybe he pushes himself away so that others can't. Maybe he wants a life he knows he can never have. Whatever he's whinning about it's keeping him distant from the group.
Maybe he wants to get closer but doesn't know how. When everything you do screws things up you stop doing things. 
anyway, i'm ranting.  
OOC i could use some suggestions on how to bring Archon closer to the circle. 
hehe, anyway, peice out.
mik


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

Well, first of all, I do want to say that the message Mik is referencing here was not just to Mik - although it cam up in context of a conversation about Archon, the above advice/requests apply to the whole group.  I'm not singling any body out, at least not intentionally.  



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> The people of the Phoenix Kingdom will remember Archonus as a hero (hopefully), but the Circle/players will remember him as "that jerk that got the Queen pregnant then left her after she was paralized". I feel like no matter what i do Archon will be remembered as an jerk.



 While there's no escaping that that situation wasn't handled perfectly, I think that Mik the player has forgotten that while we all _*laughed*_ when Archon told the Queen (and at *how* he told the Queen) we all *cheered*as things became clear between Archon and Xath.  This is often the way that romances work (especially in movies and stories), and wallowing in the bad parts only make it harder to celebrate the really good parts.  Think of it like the Lord of the Rings (movies, not books).  Sure, Aregorn turned down Eowyn, and that sucked...he was even kind of cold about it.  But, he didn't concentrate on it.  It sucked, and he was sorry, and he moved on to be reunited with the person he was *supposed *to be with.  Hell - he's even a ranger!    



> If kennon tells me that Archon knows something relevent about Dara then i'll have him say something.



 Have them ask specific questions, and I'll tell them what Archon might know.  I don't know if you know anything relevant, yet...tell me what you want to know, and I'll tell you if I know it. 



> It's no secret that Archon has been drifting away from everyone of late. The last two major decisions he has held the minority (or solitary) vote. Maybe he pushes himself away so that others can't. Maybe he wants a life he knows he can never have. Whatever he's whinning about it's keeping him distant from the group.



 IC, no one has told Archon that if he disagrees, he's out, and they don't want him anymore.  In fact, they have told him the exact opposite a number of times.  The rest of the circle have gone to *_*enormous*_* IC efforts to bring Archon back closer with the rest of the group, only to be rebuffed or ignored.  To go back to the Boromir example, he didn't just take his ball and go home after they decided that the Ring had to be destroyed.  He stuck it out, even though he disagreed (at least until the call of the Ring proved too much for him). But even for that disagreement, he remained friends with his "fellowship," sharing and growing with them, even though he wanted something (several things, in fact) that he could never have.  

Whatever Archon is whining about IS keeping his distant from the group...but remember (and this is important) that _he is not real_.  He is a glorified race car, zooming around a more-complex monopoly board, trying to land on the proverbial free parking.  You tell him where he goes, and if you don't like where he's headed (and I can't believe I'm saying _this), _METAGAME.  

Tell the other players what they need to do, and what will resonate with your fictional character - you may have to compromise, as might they, but sullen statements about Archon is a jerk gets you no where.    



> Maybe he wants to get closer but doesn't know how. When everything you do screws things up you stop doing things.



 Primarily, this is a statement that no one but Archon/Mik believes.  If everything you do consists of the same two things (eg threaten and/or pout) one can hardly be surprised if one consistently recieves the same couple of responses.  A very wise man once said "insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, expecting a different result."  Archon is not (or need not be) insane.  

He can and has done great things, but because he will not recognize them, he/we can't move on.  OOC, know this:  The Jaine thing is over.  What happens now will happen in the background, at least until the kids are born, and this is _*as good as it will get*_.  She's mad, you're mad - great.  You can be mad.  But "I'm mad about my 1 mistake" isn't a fun character to play, or even to watch played.  The story as it has unfurled leaves NO ROOM for a return to even mild affection between Archonus Arendorr and Jaine Rhynn.  It is over.  Unbending.  No chance.  

She will end up with someone else, or she will die.  If she lives she will be Queen, and the other guy will be King/Grand Duke.  If she dies, the secret remains secret, and Archon's son becomes an infant King (or at least a prince).  

Regardless, the girl child will be Archon's, to raise and protect (whether he tells her the truth is up to him).  Affections aside, she thinks its necessary, and has no doubt that he could feel affection for the children, at least.

~~~~~~

Everybody makes mistakes in character.  Xath, Arfin and L'Aurel bought the farm, Justice killed a starving ninja (and then a non-evil bounty hunter), and Archon was a little too 'easy' and ended up with kids on the way.  Everyone but Archon has moved on from their mistakes, recognizing that, at least in part, they were things that _*happened*_, not things that they _*are*_.  

My primary advice to Archon - forget that you dumped 'Eowyn,' deal with the consequences with the nobility and grace befitting your station, and remember that 'Arwyn' is standing right freakin' next to you.  

The spot for the "dark, edgy Archon that seethes with generic rage, constantly striving not to fall to evil" is filled - was filled the moment you helped fix the little demon problem.  _He's_ got the goattee, and _he_ wears the black hat.  Put on the white hat.  Be the good guy - we still need somebody to fill that role.    

Even good guys make mistakes...but there's just no sense in making the mistakes the character.  

Hope I'm making sense.  Now is the time for redemption.  Ask the questions, do the deeds, make it happen.  

We'll still make fun (just like we do for the hungry ninja) but there's no reason to let _*fun*_ turn into _*consumption*_.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> The people of the Phoenix Kingdom will remember Archonus as a hero (hopefully), but the Circle/players will remember him as "that jerk that got the Queen pregnant then left her after she was paralized". I feel like no matter what i do Archon will be remembered as an jerk.
> If kennon tells me that Archon knows something relevent about Dara then i'll have him say something.
> It's no secret that Archon has been drifting away from everyone of late. The last two major decisions he has held the minority (or solitary) vote. Maybe he pushes himself away so that others can't. Maybe he wants a life he knows he can never have. Whatever he's whinning about it's keeping him distant from the group.
> Maybe he wants to get closer but doesn't know how. When everything you do screws things up you stop doing things.
> ...



 Realistically, I think the fear of losing the Circle should be _quite_ the push to pull closer. 

There have been attempts, though.  Justice requesting that Archonus give her away at the wedding being foremost in her mind - she probably feels very rejected at this point... she tells Archonus he is like a brother to her and he does not even trust her decision making capabilities? ... or the capabilities of the others that he has sworn an oath of Alliance to?

Archonus seems to pull away when things are getting good.  But, right now, he has every reason to be pulling closer.  The love of his life, friends that are willing to die for him, and teetering on the cusp of victory for our rebellion - just to name a few.  There's also the fact that we have recently found his sister (or, she found us)... that ought to put at least a little smile on his face.

He may not agree with the means, but I don't think it's possible for him to deny that this is the most expediant and effective way to win the war.  He can refuse to agree... but, I think that Kennon has made it abundantly clear that - if we are to win - this is the only option.

And, lastly, if you wouldn't mind - please send off an email to Kennon and ask if Archonus knows anything... as someone that spends a large amount of time talking about the game with him, I know that he does not just volunteer what your character knows.  You need to ask.  There is the potential of very important information within Archonus' head - he just needs to find it.

Whether or not that information is important once you get it is for you to decide. It could be complete worthless and not impact the quest at hand... but, I would guess that Dara Goldenblade was implanted into Archonus' past for a reason.  Completely meta, but DMs don't do stuff like that for no reason.  

Anyway - that's off my chest.

L'Aurel - any idea what spells you will prepare for this evenings festivities?

Xath - what spells do you have that can help us out vs. Undead.

WHO'S READY TO WATCH JUSTICE KICK SOME UNDEAD FANNY?!?!?!
 - oh, that's me!  I love being in my element!


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

Queen_Doppelpopolis said:
			
		

> And, lastly, if you wouldn't mind - please send off an email to Kennon and ask if Archonus knows anything... as someone that spends a large amount of time talking about the game with him, I know that he does not just volunteer what your character knows. You need to ask. There is the potential of very important information within Archonus' head - he just needs to find it.



 No need to e-mail me (although you can). Post specific questions, and if Archon would know, I'll relay the information (though I might request that somebody roll something). 



> but, I would guess that Dara Goldenblade was implanted into Archonus' past for a reason. Completely meta, but DMs don't do stuff like that for no reason.



 But don't be so sure you can penetrate this DM's dark and mysterious intentions! She is there for a reason...but *what* reason? 



> WHO'S READY TO WATCH JUSTICE KICK SOME UNDEAD FANNY?!?!?!



 ME! ME!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 17, 2004)

Hehehe... I said fanny.

.. do the undead have fannys (fannies)?


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Hehehe... I said fanny.
> 
> .. do the undead have fannys (fannies)?



 Corporeal undead usually have fannies, while incorporeal and/or ethereal undead usually do not.  Skeletons do not have fannies in the traditional sense.  

The above information requires a Knowledge: Religion check, DC 12.


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## Archon (Dec 17, 2004)

*Archons rush in*

i don't want to argue about Mr. Arendorr anymore. He was my mistake.  i used to complain about guys playing the "bad arse loner" type and look at what i went and did. 
Anyway, i'm not going to metagame (much  ) and he has been over the Jayne thing(but it does keep comming up thus keeping it fresh in our minds), so lets just kick some undead fanny.
As far as what he knows about Dara, if kennon tells me Archon doesn't know anything then he doesn't know anything. Archon would know things like her favorite flower and what kinds of swords she likes to use. That's about it.  If you want the REAL scoop on Dara request a presence with her or talk to AB if you really want to.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 17, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Corporeal undead usually have fannies, while incorporeal and/or ethereal undead usually do not.  Skeletons do not have fannies in the traditional sense.
> 
> The above information requires a Knowledge: Religion check, DC 12.



 Skeletons have a mystery fanny - it's there when they sit down... but vanishes when they stand up!

Wheeee!  I love writting papers!


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i don't want to argue about Mr. Arendorr anymore. He was my mistake.  i used to complain about guys playing the "bad arse loner" type and look at what i went and did.
> Anyway, i'm not going to metagame (much  ) and he has been over the Jayne thing(but it does keep comming up thus keeping it fresh in our minds), so lets just kick some undead fanny.
> As far as what he knows about Dara, if kennon tells me Archon doesn't know anything then he doesn't know anything. Archon would know things like her favorite flower and what kinds of swords she likes to use. That's about it.  If you want the REAL scoop on Dara request a presence with her or talk to AB if you really want to.



 Nothing springs to mind as being, "That time she told me her family secret, which was of course the steps necessary to remove the deathward from Quarion's Wall."  

However, if there are specific questions, Archon might remember.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i don't want to argue about Mr. Arendorr anymore. He was my mistake.  i used to complain about guys playing the "bad arse loner" type and look at what i went and did.




There's no argument - just observation.  All of the characters have taken steps to rid themselves of their secrets and become more devoted to the Circle.  I think it's important that Archonus do the same.  IC, it is a very, very big deal.  Big enough to shatter the Circle if he does not become more open and honest.




			
				Archon said:
			
		

> As far as what he knows about Dara, if kennon tells me Archon doesn't know anything then he doesn't know anything. Archon would know things like her favorite flower and what kinds of swords she likes to use. That's about it.  If you want the REAL scoop on Dara request a presence with her or talk to AB if you really want to.




In order to get any information about Dara and her family, you will have to _ask _ Kennon.  He's' not simply going to hand it over... not the way he works... which is also why the PCs can't just go talk to AB about it becuase we don't even KNOW either one of them had a relationship with her.

AB can keep his secrets - he's not a part of the Circle.


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

> There's no argument - just observation. All of the characters have taken steps to rid themselves of their secrets and become more devoted to the Circle. I think it's important that Archonus do the same. IC, it is a very, very big deal. Big enough to shatter the Circle if he does not become more open and honest.



 Even Wolverine opens up eventually, for example.  



> In order to get any information about Dara and her family, you will have to _ask _Kennon. He's' not simply going to hand it over... not the way he works... which is also why the PCs can't just go talk to AB about it becuase we don't even KNOW either one of them had a relationship with her.
> 
> AB can keep his secrets - he's not a part of the Circle.



 Everyone can ask questions OOC, and I'll tell you if Archon would know.  Archon's still part of the circle.


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## Archon (Dec 17, 2004)

Well, i don't have any questions but if you guys do feel free to ask them to kennon and i'm sure he'll let us know what Archon knows.


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

*On Memories:*

Remember that the memories you recieved from the Bluestar are dangerous.  Continuous long-term contact with them can/will lead to insanity, of the dangerous evil sort, not the "she's so silly!" sort.

A Knowledge: Arcana check will tell you that the memories can be removed by something as simple as a "Remove Curse" spell.  However, any madness that has already resulted from continual contact with the memories _*cannot be removed*_.  It is permanent.

You can weather glancing contact with the Bluestar's alien, horrificly twisted memories without incurring any harm to your psyches...in short, I will allow short questions and answers as is my wont.  But any attempt to record/journal/exhaustively examine the memories will result in slow, creeping, irreparable _madness_.  

Part of this is for my own effort - it would take days for me to tell you everything that I know about their memories, and longer yet to fill in apropraite details.  Secondarily, dealing with powerful undead could/should/is dangerous, and this is the best way to illustrate it. 

As a result - get what you need from the memories in the shortest way possible, and then _get rid of them_.  No one wants a Bluestar growing in their minds.


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## Archon (Dec 17, 2004)

As a result - get what you need from the memories in the shortest way possible said:
			
		

> get rid of them[/i].  No one wants a Bluestar growing in their minds.




or on their face.


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> or on their face.



 Well, yours isn't exactly growing...and it's just a mark, not a whole evil persona....


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Well, i don't have any questions but if you guys do feel free to ask them to kennon and i'm sure he'll let us know what Archon knows.



 Is that information we would have IC or just OOC?


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## Archon (Dec 17, 2004)

you guys post question OOC and kennon will tell me/us what Archon knows.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> you guys post question OOC and kennon will tell me/us what Archon knows.



 (1) How close was Dara to her family at the time when Archonus knew her?

(2) Did Archonus ever visit her family's home?

(3) If yes to (2) - While he was there, did he notice anything out of place?  How's the security?

(4) Did Dara have any distinctive features or marks?

(5) Did Dara, or anyone in her family, carry a distinctive piece of jewelry? (locket, ring, bracelet, anything)

(6) Did she journal?

(7) Who are her parents? (what is their relationship with the king now? are they still living?)

(8) Who is she working for now - some of us still don't even know the basics.

There are a few.  But, I'm sure I'll think of more.


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## The_Universe (Dec 17, 2004)

Here's what Archon knows - it's up to Archon whether he shares it, IC. 



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (1) How close was Dara to her family at the time when Archonus knew her?



Fairly close. Her older brother stood to inherit the duchy her family controls, and probably also become Head of House Goldenblade. There were no nearby nobles with male heirs her age, so she decided to join the talons. Her family was supportive, but not over-eager. About as you'd expect from a youunger daughter of a Great House.



> (2) Did Archonus ever visit her family's home?



 It's possible, but it wouldn't have happened while they were together. When in training for the talons, there are no vacations. You spend years in their care, learning their lessons, seeing family and friends only when they come to you, and sometimes not even then. 

However, he might have met her or her family before he joined, since his father was also a noble. 



> (4) Did Dara have any distinctive features or marks?



 She was very pretty. 



> (5) Did Dara, or anyone in her family, carry a distinctive piece of jewelry? (locket, ring, bracelet, anything)



 If she did, she wasn't allowed to wear it while training. Archon wouldn't know. 



> (6) Did she journal?



 Archon doesn't know.



> (7) Who are her parents? (what is their relationship with the king now? are they still living?)



 I don't know her parents names - the current head(s) of the House of Goldenblade. As of when Archon and Dara parted ways, they were on good terms with the king and council...as good as most, anyway. Both were still alive as of the time they parted ways, but her older brother was being groomed to take their father's seat. 



> (8) Who is she working for now - some of us still don't even know the basics.



 Ol' Blue. She tried to recruit Randall and the Bluemages from Oceanus out from under you. Archon managed to talk them out of it. She left angry, and presumably returned to the North, though she may still be working in the South.


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## The_Universe (Dec 20, 2004)

Nice job on friday, everyone! 

But I should note that I was wrong - I still owe you a CR 12 treasure, found with the Cadaver Collector you fought at the end of the session.  As soon as I get it whipped up, I'll post it here.


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## Laurel (Dec 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Nice job on friday, everyone!
> 
> But I should note that I was wrong - I still owe you a CR 12 treasure, found with the Cadaver Collector you fought at the end of the session. As soon as I get it whipped up, I'll post it here.



Yea, Treasure! 
Did we already get the other treasure...?  Was it all bones and metal spikes?


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## Laurel (Dec 20, 2004)

*Obviously we only know if Arhconus tells us, but this gives him more if nothing else*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> Archon would know things like her favorite flower and what kinds of swords she likes to use. That's about it. If you want the REAL scoop on Dara request a presence with her or talk to AB if you really want to.



L'Aurel would want to know more about her weapon choices- yes Dara is working for ol' blue but we may have to fight her down the line or there may be something specific to her talents.
Or did he have info. on her practicing any magic...

Something about secrets and a reason not to keep them:
Things like if he had mentioned this 'A friend held by the bluestar' pre-pheonix/bluestar contract there is a possibilitity we could have gotten her back as part of the deal...... if we know if it in the future there is still a possibility.

EDIT: Also, did Archonus know any specifics of her mission/travel north with Laren Nightgrove (?whichever one it was?)? 
Does he know now the specifics of what keeps her North? -Did AB tell him, Did he chat about it in Oceanus with her.....?


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## Laurel (Dec 20, 2004)

*Pat on back for all!*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Nice job on friday, everyone!



And thanks to our rogue- we avoided a few traps, and pre-emptively didn't cluster around a possible trap 

And thanks to our new mage- had someone to along with the rogue and help out, and make sure we fanned out


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## The_Universe (Dec 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Yea, Treasure!
> Did we already get the other treasure...?  Was it all bones and metal spikes?



 Yeah - there was gems and a couple of crappy items.  That's it.  



> L'Aurel would want to know more about her weapon choices- yes Dara is working for ol' blue but we may have to fight her down the line or there may be something specific to her talents.
> Or did he have info. on her practicing any magic...



She was not a spellcaster before she went north, although she was always a bright young woman.  She doesn't really have a favorite sword, although for familial reasons she usually prefers single-edged longswords.



> Something about secrets and a reason not to keep them:
> Things like if he had mentioned this 'A friend held by the bluestar' pre-pheonix/bluestar contract there is a possibilitity we could have gotten her back as part of the deal...... if we know if it in the future there is still a possibility.



Indeed.


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## The_Universe (Dec 20, 2004)

> EDIT: Also, did Archonus know any specifics of her mission/travel north with Laren Nightgrove (?whichever one it was?)?
> Does he know now the specifics of what keeps her North? -Did AB tell him, Did he chat about it in Oceanus with her.....?



He did not know where she was going when she left Talon HQ.  She didn't know where he was going, either.  He *did* know that she was going to be travelling with Laren Nightgrove (who happens to be the King's half-brother).  

In Oceanus, he learned that she was now an apparently willing (and fanatic) servant of the Bluestar.  Apart from that, he does not know any specifics about what keeps her in the North.  AB hasn't talked about her.


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## Laurel (Dec 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> She was not a spellcaster before she went north, although she was always a bright young woman.



So if she went with anything she would become a wizard- cool beans


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## The_Universe (Dec 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So if she went with anything she would become a wizard- cool beans



 That is what I was hinting at, yes.  Wizardry is also more in the Bluestar's idiom.


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## The_Universe (Dec 20, 2004)

*Treasure!*

Also there is treasure: 

Hidden among the corpses that adorn the strange construct's spikes, you see the glitter of gold, and the promise of something more...

As you cut the remaining "dolls" down from their perches around the small kitchen, you find a few more items of interest, none of which would be of any use to the dead. 

You find therein: A Potion of Mage Armor, a Potion of Barkskin (+2), 1 potion of cure light wounds, 1 Scroll of Eagle's Splendor and Sound Burst. 

You also find a +1 Undead Bane Javelin of Distance and a +1 Heavy Steel Shield of Blinding and Arrow Deflection.

But perhaps of most interest, you find a book whose covers are made of a slightly rusted iron: on its cover are the words (in dwarven) "Iron Walks the Earth." It is an Iron Golem Manual.

And then there was the 3000 gold pieces.


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## Xath (Dec 20, 2004)

Added to the resource list.  Let me know who takes what.


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## Laurel (Dec 20, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Added to the resource list. Let me know who takes what.



Oh! I want a doll   Eck!

seriously though, Unless someone else wants it- the undead javlin just looks like fun  and it's for well, undead which we get practice killing and it's ranged.  Nto hording all ranged though, so if someone else wants it just ask   Farathier would have been the competitor in past 
I can give up some of the mass of weapons L'Aurel is holding right now (something I have been meaning to do actually).... since she uses one maybe two weapons... just don't expect much as they are not pricy items 
Not sure why the 'of distance' was added? tried looking it up SRD  Javelins are only ranged weapons or else -4 penatly without some feat to over come it.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Oh! I want a doll   Eck!
> 
> seriously though, Unless someone else wants it- the undead javlin just looks like fun  and it's for well, undead which we get practice killing and it's ranged.  Nto hording all ranged though, so if someone else wants it just ask   Farathier would have been the competitor in past
> I can give up some of the mass of weapons L'Aurel is holding right now (something I have been meaning to do actually).... since she uses one maybe two weapons... just don't expect much as they are not pricy items
> Not sure why the 'of distance' was added? tried looking it up SRD  Javelins are only ranged weapons or else -4 penatly without some feat to over come it.



 I think distance increases its range increment by 5 or 10 feet.  Let me see if I can dig up the description. 

Here it is: 


			
				srd said:
			
		

> *Distance: *This property can only be placed on a ranged weapon. A weapon of distance has double the range increment of other weapons of its kind.
> 
> *Moderate divination; CL 6th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, clairaudience/clairvoyance; Price +1 bonus.*



* 
*


----------



## Xath (Dec 20, 2004)

Just post anything you want added to the resource list and I'll add it.  I'm very bored.  Please give me something to do.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 20, 2004)

Maybe some musings/speculations/questions about the following things could keep you busy: 

1) Now that you're in Khaz Barok, what are you looking for?  Any speculation as of yet?
2) Once you get this done, what's going to happen?  Where are you going?  What are you doing?  I wouldn't be averse to taking a small narrative break and fast-forwarding time a bit (say 5-7 months?) once this is over...let some of the war happen without playing out every battle.  

Whether we do that, or not, what's the Circle of the Phoenix going to be doing?  Where can they be most useful?  What needs their involvement? Spiritblades? Something else?


----------



## Laurel (Dec 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> a +1 Heavy Steel Shield of Blinding and Arrow Deflection.



So I know on some things you can esentially say 'turn off' does that work for things like Arrow Deflection as well.  If an ally takes this and I try to shoot them with a healing arrow can I say turn off the Aroow Defelction? or would they have to drop the shield?
Not sure who can would use a shield anyways for our group, but figure I'll ask in case someone takes it and uses it


----------



## Laurel (Dec 22, 2004)

*Some initial rambling thoughts*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Maybe some musings/speculations/questions about the following things could keep you busy:
> 1) Now that you're in Khaz Barok, what are you looking for? Any speculation as of yet?



Well, even though it may have been Quarion's magic in part it seems that all hints lead to the dwarves heading and doing most of the building- so something that they would appreciate. Perhaps we should either alter self to one of the front guys to be dwarves or let Xath go first (think altering front guy better idea) so that perhaps as last time we could possibly get some information out of the constructs instead of just obliterating each one- just no spanish! 

I think we also seemed to agree last time that sticking to the middle levels is good. The really deep ones weren't built in Quarion's time so would be there. Does Xath have an idea on levels and time frames- any checks for stone age? No more dwarves in the party.

There was that picture/mural with a river connecting it all.... could be a clue. 

Again any idea from Xath how far down that might be?


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> 2) Once you get this done, what's going to happen? Where are you going? What are you doing? I wouldn't be averse to taking a small narrative break and fast-forwarding time a bit (say 5-7 months?) once this is over...let some of the war happen without playing out every battle.



I think either back to the bluestar or send a message to him saying walls down, and then heading to Caer Albion to make sure fighters get ther okay at the very least.

Not adverse to fast forwarding either.  This would mean that we still act as the great generals of the army that we are, we just aren't rolling it out, RPing it out, or getting experience for it right?....

We may also want to/need to know what Jaine decided before the fastforward happens, since I think 7 months is at or past her due date.  Maybe something RP at least we all want to be around for?



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Whether we do that, or not, what's the Circle of the Phoenix going to be doing? Where can they be most useful? What needs their involvement? Spiritblades? Something else?



I always like the idea of the group going for the spirit blades- and we are getting the point of more dangerous covert getting them back from Tain situations. We have very few left on the list of which are just out there possibly. Most are accounted for -either Tain or Bluestar's hands. Tain's winning on that score by the way......

I like this also for meta gaming reasons- sorry have to say it- this would be more one-on-one action agiainst NPCS instead of with NPCs against NPCs in the middle of a huge over battle type of scenarios.

By the way these are just first ramblins and first personal feelings, not saying I am dead set or pushing for any of these things... just when questions asked what I first thought.


----------



## Xath (Dec 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, even though it may have been Quarion's magic in part it seems that all hints lead to the dwarves heading and doing most of the building- so something that they would appreciate. Perhaps we should either alter self to one of the front guys to be dwarves or let Xath go first (think altering front guy better idea) so that perhaps as last time we could possibly get some information out of the constructs instead of just obliterating each one- just no spanish! .




Altering as a dwarf is a good idea, however, it'd have to be either Xath or Justice, since they're the only two who speak Dwarven.  Also, they're the only two with moderately respectable bluff checks. (I believe)



> I think we also seemed to agree last time that sticking to the middle levels is good. The really deep ones weren't built in Quarion's time so would be there. Does Xath have an idea on levels and time frames- any checks for stone age? No more dwarves in the party.




We are currently on level 1 of 5 main habitable levels.  Archon fell through to level two.  The levels built during Quarion's time are 3-5.  I use the term "level" loosely, because each level is 30-70 feet deep, with multiple sublevels.  However, I think we still need to go down.



> There was that picture/mural with a river connecting it all.... could be a clue.




Could we get a written description of what that looked like?



> I think either back to the bluestar or send a message to him saying walls down, and then heading to Caer Albion to make sure fighters get ther okay at the very least.




We need to go to Caer Albion to activate the teleportation circle.



> Not adverse to fast forwarding either.  This would mean that we still act as the great generals of the army that we are, we just aren't rolling it out, RPing it out, or getting experience for it right?....
> 
> We may also want to/need to know what Jaine decided before the fastforward happens, since I think 7 months is at or past her due date.  Maybe something RP at least we all want to be around for?




I know Mik would be interested in seeing what happens to the kids before the end of the campaign.  I wouldn't be adverse to the prospect myself.  After all, every movie should have a good "Montage!"


----------



## Laurel (Dec 22, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Altering as a dwarf is a good idea, however, it'd have to be either Xath or Justice, since they're the only two who speak Dwarven. Also, they're the only two with moderately respectable bluff checks. (I believe)



Whispers, "Jansten" -that arcane sight, spider climbing really sexy guy in front.
Did Xath speak dwarven to the other construct? 



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> We are currently on level 1 of 5 main habitable levels. Archon fell through to level two. The levels built during Quarion's time are 3-5. I use the term "level" loosely, because each level is 30-70 feet deep, with multiple sublevels. However, I think we still need to go down.



Cool beans, then yep down some more. Do we want to just head straight to level 5?
They obviously did not want people to find or go searching for this item/object/room/person so I doubt there will be 'clues' laying about.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> But perhaps of most interest, you find a book whose covers are made of a slightly rusted iron: on its cover are the words (in dwarven) "Iron Walks the Earth." It is an Iron Golem Manual.



Jansten would like to take a closer look/read through/put in his bag of this manual as soon as he sees it's metal cover.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So I know on some things you can esentially say 'turn off' does that work for things like Arrow Deflection as well.  If an ally takes this and I try to shoot them with a healing arrow can I say turn off the Aroow Defelction? or would they have to drop the shield?
> Not sure who can would use a shield anyways for our group, but figure I'll ask in case someone takes it and uses it



 Arrow deflection is an "always on" effect.  You can either roll highe enough to beat the effect (if that's possible, I don't have a book in front of me) or they have to drop the shield completely in order to make your shot easier.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, even though it may have been Quarion's magic in part it seems that all hints lead to the dwarves heading and doing most of the building- so something that they would appreciate. Perhaps we should either alter self to one of the front guys to be dwarves or let Xath go first (think altering front guy better idea) so that perhaps as last time we could possibly get some information out of the constructs instead of just obliterating each one- just no spanish!



Constructs, no matter how loyal to a particular group, are usually not terribly communicative. Most don't even have intelligence scores, and those that do have no means of communication. They can follow simple instructions, and most will naturally pursue the purpose of the construction even without instructions. So, just so you know, questioning contructs is not _likely _to yield much in the way of information. 



> I think we also seemed to agree last time that sticking to the middle levels is good. The really deep ones weren't built in Quarion's time so would be there. Does Xath have an idea on levels and time frames- any checks for stone age? No more dwarves in the party.



The highest tunnels are the oldest, the deepest the youngest. They started at ground level and worked down. There are 5 main levels of the city. Quarion would have come on the scene somewhere around level 2 and 3. 



> There was that picture/mural with a river connecting it all.... could be a clue.



Could be. 



> Not adverse to fast forwarding either. This would mean that we still act as the great generals of the army that we are, we just aren't rolling it out, RPing it out, or getting experience for it right?....



Right. Sort of like how time passes between Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. 



> We may also want to/need to know what Jaine decided before the fastforward happens, since I think 7 months is at or past her due date. Maybe something RP at least we all want to be around for?



Probably. Perhaps it would be part of a "montage" of events. Or I was thinking that we'd just end the Fast forward right as the event is happening. One of those.



> I always like the idea of the group going for the spirit blades- and we are getting the point of more dangerous covert getting them back from Tain situations. We have very few left on the list of which are just out there possibly. Most are accounted for -either Tain or Bluestar's hands. Tain's winning on that score by the way......



Oh yeah. By quite a bit. 



> By the way these are just first ramblins and first personal feelings, not saying I am dead set or pushing for any of these things... just when questions asked what I first thought.



Cool. Appreciate the ideas and thoughts.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 23, 2004)

I think we could pretty easily deal with the constructs by getting Jaine to pass us the Rod of Rulership through the Ring Gate.

Justice could be the Construct Queen - in addition to the Ooze Queen of Nirvana.  Like a party!!!!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I think we could pretty easily deal with the constructs by getting Jaine to pass us the Rod of Rulership through the Ring Gate.
> 
> Justice could be the Construct Queen - in addition to the Ooze Queen of Nirvana.  Like a party!!!!



 Not quite sure why Justice still doesn't have it... but, it's not on her equipment list, and I seem to remember saying we were going to give it to Jaine...


----------



## Xath (Dec 23, 2004)

We did give it to Jaine.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 23, 2004)

We gave the rod to Jaine, since she is ruling as Queen over our lone city and our slowly amassing army.  When going through the invintory one time there was talk of selling it, so all seemed happier when the idea of putting it to good use by Jaine's hand then selling it to Cawys and thus to the bluestar.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 23, 2004)

HAPPY HOLIDAYS to All!!!!!!!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We gave the rod to Jaine, since she is ruling as Queen over our lone city and our slowly amassing army.  When going through the invintory one time there was talk of selling it, so all seemed happier when the idea of putting it to good use by Jaine's hand then selling it to Cawys and thus to the bluestar.



 Well, at the moment, it may well do us some good to get our hands on it, again.  Could make dealing with the constructs much easier.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> HAPPY HOLIDAYS to All!!!!!!!





MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Well, at the moment, it may well do us some good to get our hands on it, again.  Could make dealing with the constructs much easier.



 The rod of rulership would make dealing with everything easier...but remember that you have to get some distance from your dumber party members before it can be safely used.  

You can also rule undead.  

On another note, could someone direct me to the questions that need my comments?  I know I need to describe the river mural.  Anything else I need to talk about/comment on?  

I hope you all had a merry christmas - I'm looking forward to a happy new year!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> You can also rule undead.




Who wants to rule them when you can explode them into tiny bits of undead-fliggins?!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The rod of rulership would make dealing with everything easier...but remember that you have to get some distance from your dumber party members before it can be safely used.




I think it's worth-while to have it around - should get it through the ring gate.  That last little beef with the construct and its dolls was rough - can only do that a couple more times before we all kick it.

Additionally, when ruling the constructs, we can attempt to give them clever instructions even if the dumber party members are in the range of the rod... simply saying, "Stop attacking" or "Halt" shouldn't cause any harm if they oblige.  All we have are PCs and NPCs that *aren't* attacking.  

If they don't obey, then we go through with the attacking - telling a beast that is not responding to the rod to attack, while at the same time telling the PCs to attack just leaves us with the status quo: fighting.

I think that is valid reasoning... however, if it isn't, blame the lack of sleep.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Altering as a dwarf is a good idea, however, it'd have to be either Xath or Justice, since they're the only two who speak Dwarven. Also, they're the only two with moderately respectable bluff checks. (I believe)



 I also think that this is the case.  Just remember that constructs are very stupid, and trying to elicit information from them is essentially a fool's errand.  They will take commands from their masters to the best of their abilities.



> We are currently on level 1 of 5 main habitable levels. Archon fell through to level two. The levels built during Quarion's time are 3-5. I use the term "level" loosely, because each level is 30-70 feet deep, with multiple sublevels. However, I think we still need to go down.



 I also recommend that you _get down.  _It's time to _groove.  _

That was a joke.





> Could we get a written description of what that looked like?



 NEVER!

But seriously, the river serves to connect the pictures that the mosaics on the wall present, implying continuity between the isolated scenes on each of its 8 walls.  The stones that represent the flowing water are a clear, crystal blue - unusual for any water flowing underground, which tends to be rusty (but still drinkable).  The scenes above the "river" are all historic, dealing with the founding of Khaz Barok, and then important events and battles that follow. 

That's what comes to mind immediately.  If you would like to know more, you may ask.   





> We need to go to Caer Albion to activate the teleportation circle.



 Yes you do.





> I know Mik would be interested in seeing what happens to the kids before the end of the campaign. I wouldn't be adverse to the prospect myself. After all, every movie should have a good "Montage!"



 That's the plan, as of now.  However, I'd still like to know what you want to be doing for the 9 mo.-1 year of montage (in general terms).  If someone has a specific vision or request, I'd be glad to talk about it.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Jansten would like to take a closer look/read through/put in his bag of this manual as soon as he sees it's metal cover.



 It's an iron golem manual, as described in both the DMG and SRD.


----------



## Xath (Dec 29, 2004)

Not to beat a dead horse, but did Jaine ever decide how she was going to explain her pregnancy?  It's something she has to do pretty soon, before people get suspicious.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Not to beat a dead horse, but did Jaine ever decide how she was going to explain her pregnancy?  It's something she has to do pretty soon, before people get suspicious.



 Jaine has decided what she is going to attempt to do.  However, before her decision can come to light, there are other events which must first take place.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 29, 2004)

Justice's Plans for the Future (in no particular order):


(1) The Isle

Assuming that the undead are able to regain control of the Isle, she will send her followers to begin the restoration of the tombs found there - passing any and all documents along to scribes working for the Phoenix Kingdom for copying and the like.  The tombs should be like shrines to the great saints and Justice wants to make sure of it.


(2) Varis' Palace

Once we finish taking Oceanus, Justice wants to get moved into that cozy palace with her hubby.


(3) Question the High Bishop

Justice has some beef with the High Bishop or whatever his title is of the Apectan church.  She's got questions the she needs answered or she's forming her *own* sect.


(4) Spies like us!

We all know what this ia about.


(5) New Dresses.  


(6) Finding Mom.


(7) Fighting Dad.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (3) Question the High Bishop
> 
> Justice has some beef with the High Bishop or whatever his title is of the Apectan church. She's got questions the she needs answered or she's forming her *own* sect.



Hopefully without the thought or added input of the Bluestar's thoughts on the Apecto, his temples, his religion, and his sainthood......


----------



## Laurel (Dec 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Jaine has decided what she is going to attempt to do. However, before her decision can come to light, there are other events which must first take place.



When she makes/made her decision did/is she going to let us little pions- advisors- know what it is?  She has to know we are waiting, and that some things hinge on what she decides.  More agreements may come up shortly and she has to know it may be vital to know what she is leaning towards.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It's an iron golem manual, as described in both the DMG and SRD.



Yep. and I forwarded all info to Greg so he has it. Was just stating that when I sent the list on to greg that's what he said Janesten did- so he takes it. Didn't want us selling something that someone wanted is all


----------



## Laurel (Dec 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (1) The Isle
> 
> Assuming that the undead are able to regain control of the Isle, she will send her followers to begin the restoration of the tombs found there - passing any and all documents along to scribes working for the Phoenix Kingdom for copying and the like. The tombs should be like shrines to the great saints and Justice wants to make sure of it.



She may not be a blood ancestor anymore, but she's still an ancestor of both.  She would appreciate/want/like/push to be involved here- especially with the Amastatia as she feels closer to that side of her family


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> When she makes/made her decision did/is she going to let us little pions- advisors- know what it is?  She has to know we are waiting, and that some things hinge on what she decides.  More agreements may come up shortly and she has to know it may be vital to know what she is leaning towards.



 She's not going to tell you while you're careening through the abandoned city of Khaz Barok.  Expect her "answer" to be part of the proposed montage.  



> Yep. and I forwarded all info to Greg so he has it. Was just stating that when I sent the list on to greg that's what he said Janesten did- so he takes it. Didn't want us selling something that someone wanted is all



 Good deal.  Even having just 1 iron golem could be useful...and getting some scribes to make copies (of such a thing is possible) might supplement your armies nicely. 



> She may not be a blood ancestor anymore, but she's still an ancestor of both. She would appreciate/want/like/push to be involved here- especially with the Amastatia as she feels closer to that side of her family



 Just remember that the undead aren't exactly trying to control the island - just defeat/eliminate the armies that are there and capture the spiritblades from their current guardians.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Hopefully without the thought or added input of the Bluestar's thoughts on the Apecto, his temples, his religion, and his sainthood......



 The questions she has are ones that have existed since she discovered her bloodline.  I'm sure that there will be come questions that will arise as she learns what she can of Thane through Big Blue's memories, however; those questions are not the ones I was talking about.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> She may not be a blood ancestor anymore, but she's still an ancestor of both.  She would appreciate/want/like/push to be involved here- especially with the Amastatia as she feels closer to that side of her family



 That's fine - Just sharing Justice's list... it's not her exculsive list that no one else can be involved in... just what is foremost in her mind.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 29, 2004)

Well, if Justice and L'Aurel want to restore the island, they may have to do some fighting in order to accomplish the goal.


----------



## Xath (Dec 29, 2004)

*Xath's Plans for the Future (in no particular order except where obvious)*

(1) To use the newly gained armies of Prydein, and of the Watch to retake Caer Albion.

(2) To use diplomatic negotiation and good will to convince the armies they fight for the right cause. (ie. gain their trust and true loyalty for the kingdom)

(3) To use diplomatic negotiation and systematic replacement of officials to ensure the loyalty of Caer Albion, (if/once it is taken)

(4) To get the stories of Garen Lightstaff and Henry Hansberry out to the public, in order to give them legitimate claim on their house seats on the noble's council. (As well as working on putting claims on any seats of the council the kingdom has a chance at; Araesi, Rhynn, Filmore, Hansberry, Greyclaw, Woodshadow, Lightstaff, etc)  

(5) To get information out of the Bluestar's memories without going insane, and then to get rid of them as soon as possible.

(6) To spend some time with Archon.

...more as I think of them.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Well, if Justice and L'Aurel want to restore the island, they may have to do some fighting in order to accomplish the goal.



 Yes. Definitely.  It is not easy to "restore."


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

> (6) To spend some time with Archon.



 Insert obligatory Barry White song here.


----------



## Laurel (Dec 29, 2004)

Who's Garen Lightstaff?  New NPC running around.....


----------



## Laurel (Dec 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Just remember that the undead aren't exactly trying to control the island - just defeat/eliminate the armies that are there and capture the spiritblades from their current guardians.



Exactly- for the island we cleanse it of undead and all those other bad spirit deamons and set it up as a happier place 
With the resources we have however it still can't be top of the list.  Just something Justice and L'Aurel have on the list.


----------



## Xath (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Who's Garen Lightstaff?  New NPC running around.....




Garen Lightstaff is the elven lad of the shadowstone trio. (Ara Arendorr, Henry Hansberry, Garen Lightstaff)

...too bad his name didn't start with an L.  Then we'd have had a real pattern to look for.  What Tain really hates more than anything...is alliteration.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Who's Garen Lightstaff?  New NPC running around.....



 Garen Lightstaff was one of the assassins being controlled by the shadowstone shards, much like Henry Hansberry and the young Ara Arendorr.


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Exactly- for the island we cleanse it of undead and all those other bad spirit deamons and set it up as a happier place
> With the resources we have however it still can't be top of the list.  Just something Justice and L'Aurel have on the list.



 Very good.   Works for me.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Dec 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Exactly- for the island we cleanse it of undead and all those other bad spirit deamons and set it up as a happier place
> With the resources we have however it still can't be top of the list.  Just something Justice and L'Aurel have on the list.



 It'll be a party when we get to do it!  :-D


----------



## Laurel (Dec 29, 2004)

*Wierd new format for ENworld.....*

What she does:
1) Start the Order of the Inner Eye

2) Cleanse and repair the Isle of Mourning and tombs therein

3) Spend more time with Jansten- work out a better deal with him- bring him into circle (good with blades, good with magic, good with strategy, leader of a good cause, and powerful family)

4) Use magic to help Irellion Greylaw fortify walls of Hywrl and surrounding area

5) Send out messages to other towns to see what is happening, thier views on the rebellion, thier views on the bluestar, thier views on the king, thier views on us, just a general what do they know, etc. --depending on info. back send people there to scout, to spy, to play diplomat

What she wants:
1) to actually take Caer Maelyn- set up Duchess Justice of CM (by Jaine's decree) or someone as her proxy and a small force of none magic users as watchers/lookouts

2) to win Caer Albion or at least get everyone out 

3) to get Oceanus back, place one division of Bluestar's forces there to at least help protect main palace and grounds-- then two ports we control (Sylvanus and Oceanus)

Lots more floating out there as possibilities (some really small -like talk to X- and some very obvious -like be there when Jaine's time comes and talk to her after her decision is known-)


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 29, 2004)

Looks good, Kat!

On another note, do you want to play tomorrow night?


----------



## Xath (Dec 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> But seriously, the river serves to connect the pictures that the mosaics on the wall present, implying continuity between the isolated scenes on each of its 8 walls.  The stones that represent the flowing water are a clear, crystal blue - unusual for any water flowing underground, which tends to be rusty (but still drinkable).  The scenes above the "river" are all historic, dealing with the founding of Khaz Barok, and then important events and battles that follow.




So...maybe it's a time traveling river...

The river is on which level?


----------



## The_Universe (Dec 30, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> So...maybe it's a time traveling river...
> 
> The river is on which level?



 Part of it is on this level.


----------



## Xath (Dec 30, 2004)

*Questions for the Thought Cancer*

*How does the Bluestar think Mordred and Tain are linked?*
The Bluestar thinks that Tain and Mordred are linked by some relic or object. He knows that Mordred died, and Tain is clearly not a clone (a possibility he initially considered) of Mordred.  So, Mordred (who is dead) is using Tain as an extension of his will, or (now that he has seen some of the prophecies) it's more of a partnership but Mordred's probably not corporeal

*Any clues as to what the artifact may be?*
He has no idea.  He thinks that whatever it was must have left the castle before Mordred was killed (the castle being Caer Hextor) because there was too much activity around the island for it to have "escaped" immediately after.  Which means that Mordred probably hedged his bet, and had a backup of some sort in case he "died."  But not a clone - if it was a clone, the real Mordred would be crashing around wreaking havoc, not using Tain.

*Could he be a descendant?*
Tain?  Very unlikely.  Mordred was around for at least 1000 years before the Freedom War, and fathered no known children.  At best, Tain could be a great-great-great-(etc.)-grand nephew but, anyone descended from the line of Kings would have a similar relationship.  Morgath and Isolder I were brothers.  Mordred was Morgath's son.  Morgath's other sons went on to become emperors, founding the Dragon Imperial lines on the Great Ring.  Isolder's son was hidden with the Baron Destro, and raised as a Destro, and that line was eventually restored to the throne, with the return of Maelwys I.  Tain (and Jaine) are part of that line.
*
I want to know more of what happened at Caer Hextor.*
Mordred was gathering his generals and allies at Caer Hextor to finalize plans to "crush" the rebels, being led by Maelwys I.  Maelwys's forces learned of the meeting, and thought it an ideal time to attack - all of the leadership in one place.  And so they attacked Mordred's Isle, and thus Caer Hextor.  The PC's fought their evil siblings (if they had them) and some of Mordred's Powerful lieutenants. They defeated them, eventually cornering Mordred in the catacombs beneath the castle.  Tiamat was there, as well...drained of some power by her son, as he was apparently attempting to ascend to the same state of demi-deity as Tiamat and Oberon.  But, she was still super powerful.  So, tiamat and oberon fought (oberon won) while the PCs fought Mordred.  Mordred was killed, and Tiamat was imprisoned at the apparent cost of Oberon's immortality.  Everybody almost died.

*What weapons did Mordred favor?*
As a man, he had one of the falcon blades: a longsword.  He liked it a great deal.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 3, 2005)

First KoA post of 2005!  Yay!


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## The_Universe (Jan 3, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> First KoA post of 2005!  Yay!



 Huzzah!  When do we want to play, next?  JC isn't back until late on the eighth of January - it'd be nice if we get out of the dungeon before he reappears (if only to save explaining how he got there)...but I'm not _expecting_ that to happen.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 3, 2005)

Well - Friday is free for me... Saturday night is also open... but, at midnight, I'd like to go somewhere and order something to drink... and then, Sunday = BIRTHDAY!!!

Speaking of that - who all is coming to Dave and Busters?


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## Laurel (Jan 3, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Huzzah! When do we want to play, next? JC isn't back until late on the eighth of January - it'd be nice if we get out of the dungeon before he reappears (if only to save explaining how he got there)...but I'm not _expecting_ that to happen.



For Liz and her 21st what about playing Friday night?  That frees up Saturday for any other birthday fun she has   And catching up on sleep or work she wont get to Sunday 

D&B in the planner for Greg and I.


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## The_Universe (Jan 3, 2005)

Friday night works fine for us (as far as I know).  Liz?  

Glad to hear about D&B!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 3, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Friday night works fine for us (as far as I know).  Liz?
> 
> Glad to hear about D&B!



 As I said before, Friday works for me!


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## Laurel (Jan 3, 2005)

Sent the planning thing out via e-mail, so as always everyone an input- hope you don't mind


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 3, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Sent the planning thing out via e-mail, so as always everyone an input- hope you don't mind



 I do mind, Kat!  I am offended!


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## Xath (Jan 3, 2005)

I replied in the email.  Mik and I are in, looks like Friday it is.


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## The_Universe (Jan 3, 2005)

So how about that Kraken?  Let's fight some more of them!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 3, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> So how about that Kraken?  Let's fight some more of them!



 Yeah - that was my favorite!


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

I think there's still stuff to talk about (although I admit I may be wrong).  I'm _still _happy to answer questions about stuff that might be relevent.


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

*it's a question just not strategy....*

If we do the hiatus thing it would be we get out of dungeon- then hiatus or would we do the whole going to Caer Albion setting up the telport circle getting Kareth and his men there and then for battle and next few months due the hiatus?


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> If we do the hiatus thing it would be we get out of dungeon- then hiatus or would we do the whole going to Caer Albion setting up the telport circle getting Kareth and his men there and then for battle and next few months due the hiatus?



 Either way is fine with me.  Barring major complications, you should be able to start the in-game hiatus after you leave the dungeon, or shortly thereafter.

But it might be fun to play out some of the Caer Albion stuff.  It's up to you.


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## Xath (Jan 5, 2005)

So what do we think the mechanism is, anyone have any ideas or clues?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 5, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> So what do we think the mechanism is, anyone have any ideas or clues?



 If I had any idea, I would offer it.  However, it is - for the most part - lost to the ages.  Don't think we are supposed to be able to *guess* what it is.


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> So what do we think the mechanism is, anyone have any ideas or clues?



One of the gollums is honestly what I was thinking- reason I think we shouldn't just be busting up everyone we see.  Not that we need to try and have a conversation with each, but not imediately going into attack mode may be good.

Look for more locked doors, or big receiveing throne room type places   Other then those I'd say we are looking for a big long sword.

Should we use the boat and see where the water/river leads to?


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> So what do we think the mechanism is, anyone have any ideas or clues?



Something that can be moved from Citadel Refuge to here. It must be an item of fairly obvious power, because Quarion had it moved for the apparently explicit purpose of powering the ward. 

It may be a spiritblade, but if it is, it probably requires whatever was moved from the South to Khaz Barok to make it work as it currently does.  Quarion had access to spiritblades (assuming he was aware of their importance)...this had to be something even more rare.


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

On a random and very unlikely train of thought that I still just wanted to share with everyone.....I think Quarion is the one walking around hywrl from the glimpse wedding/funeral story, and Loss is actually his old long sword that Jaine got from Cawyes who got it from Big Blue.


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## Archon (Jan 5, 2005)

how did you work that one out Kat?


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> On a random and very unlikely train of thought that I still just wanted to share with everyone.....I think Quarion is the one walking around hywrl from the glimpse wedding/funeral story, and Loss is actually his old long sword that Jaine got from Cawyes who got it from Big Blue.



 Interesting theory.


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

Archon said:
			
		

> how did you work that one out Kat?



Slowly being driven insane by work
-or-
I just don't want him to be one of the shiny gold figure that stood on the Bluestar's left side
-or-
1) He is one of those watching from on high, helping as able from there as well.  Long ago Oberon was able to come back as a messenger of sorts.  Quarion could be sent back for the same purpose.  The last paragraph also leads to Quarion possibly, someone sent by the light, sent to us specifically- a messenger.

2) We are close to Quarion's Rest yet it is unlikely that he is actually buried there. He was close to Link it is possible the woodshadow got him and/or his family to agree to have him buried some place safe as all the other hero's were.  A place not easily thought of nor easy to find.  Hywrl is Link's area a place he could watch over the grave, a quite honor place of rest.  Link was the last and if Quarion made it to old age there was only Link to make sure he got there, and with Link he may have gotten stopped along the way and come up with his own idea and gone with it.
It is very likely by the story of Quarion that the two found each other alive later on.  That woudl explain the switch in Quarion from 'Find Link!' to 'He's dead stop looking.'

3) It was someone who had been alive previously but does not hold thier memories.  Someone who once held power, but now does not (comment about not its time).  Someone close to dwarves and thier love of iron work (comment about fiting tribute and not much changing).  Someone from the old world as he calls it 'Thane's religion' not the light or Apectos, but Thane.  Someone who knew him, worried about the teachings he spread as he was glad things did not evolve into seeing Thane as a god. 

4) Could be a dwarf since it references walking among them and part of thier speech or som such not being lost.... but could also just be Quarion who in building the wall spent years surrounded by dwarves in thier own element.

5) The sword is that Quarion was a sword man, ::shrug:: I don't know.... fits, and explains a possible place of how Jaine got it.  She didn't craft it herself.  Also the person did not know it exactly, and since it changed from (whatever it's name was before) to loss that could cause the familiar feeling of the sword to its owner.
He was more of a short sword guy apparently, but the sword does keep changing as it is magical.

5) The part about the queen looking like one of mine though does first lead to Oberon, but in all those years there could have been mixing of blood.  Not really far fetched since his would have been an honored house and his ancestors would have pull and power.  Something leaders and other powerfully people would want to ally themselves with.
Plus Quarion himself was related in, as he was most likely related to the amastatia who was one of Oberon's many decendent children.

6) Also there is the whole you can only be brought back once- Oberon died long ago was brought back by the hero's of old; Link died was brought back- Still available to Quarion though.

I know and already said this is tenuous reasoning and obviously a mass of other people could it be instead.  Just a random mind wandering that I came up with   I think Gertie was more correct with Oberon and see more connections that way from the messenger of the light wording 'to one of his' to any number of other things.


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

but back to more important issues- as G asked anyone else on idea of what we are looking for?


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

Okay so I thought about having L'Aurel just ask Dara from some of her blood, but figured first I should ask two questions in KOA land before everyone freaked about her acting really weird:

1) do they have blood transfusions?

2) If you drink someone's blood besides weird would you be considered to have thier blood for the duration it stayed in you? 

--thoughts in case it is trigered or shows diferently for someone of Quarons blood.  Hey something she would think through there seems to be a lot holding on blood and those connections it wouldn't surprise her if it is a blood trigger or blood directional thing--


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> but back to more important issues- as G asked anyone else on idea of what we are looking for?



 None of the dwarves in Sylvanus are aware of anything in their former homes that's been theoretically powering the ward.  If any of the dwarves who lived there *did* know, they must not have made it out.  

However, just because they don't know anything obvious does not mean they don't know anything relevent. Specific questions get good answers.

Also, do you want to use the boat to see what's down the river?


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay so I thought about having L'Aurel just ask Dara from some of her blood, but figured first I should ask two questions in KOA land before everyone freaked about her acting really weird:
> 
> 1) do they have blood transfusions?
> 
> ...



 The presence of magical healing has obviated the need for blood transfusions in all but a few cases. For the most part, no - there are no blood transfusions. 

If you were to drink someone's blood, I suppose any magic keyed to it *might* work.  However, as it's not a problem ancient magical engineers wouldn't have thought of, it's better than nothing, I suppose.  The idea behind the "X's blood" magic is to limit who can access it, and I'm not sure that drinking blood that goes to your stomach is magically any different than carrying a bucket of blood around with you. 

If you were a vampire, I'd say that yes - it would count.  Since you're not, at best I'll say maybe.  But a creative idea.  I'm tempted to give bonus XP just for the thought.


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Also, can you think of a reason that Quarion would have wanted to be able to bring the ward down?  If you can, think about who and what would be the obvious choices to do so, in a situation that Quarion might have forseen.  

If not, then think as if you're trying to hide it from EVERYONE, so that even the well-meaning cannot bring it down.  In this case, it will probably not be a switch, like the ward in Caer Melyn, which could be advantageous when up _or_ down. It might leaves signs of its presence somewhere, but will not be easily accessible.  

Above all, remember that whatever powers it is dangerous - it could have paralyzed any of you, although it was more likely to stop those of the Bluestar's blood...an item of that power can't just be hanging out in the open.


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> So what do we think the mechanism is, anyone have any ideas or clues?



 Oh - somebody roll Knowledge: Nature, and tell me what you get.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 5, 2005)

Hey, since this thread is getting near 500 posts, I'd like to have the DM create the new out of character thread sometime soon, so that I can close this thread. If you have any questions, email me at creamsteak@hotmail.com.


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The presence of magical healing has obviated the need for blood transfusions in all but a few cases. For the most part, no - there are no blood transfusions.
> 
> If you were to drink someone's blood, I suppose any magic keyed to it *might* work. However, as it's not a problem ancient magical engineers wouldn't have thought of, it's better than nothing, I suppose. The idea behind the "X's blood" magic is to limit who can access it, and I'm not sure that drinking blood that goes to your stomach is magically any different than carrying a bucket of blood around with you.
> 
> If you were a vampire, I'd say that yes - it would count. Since you're not, at best I'll say maybe. But a creative idea. I'm tempted to give bonus XP just for the thought.



but you eat things like food and drink things like soda and they get soaked up into your system.  Though blood is not normal and may not get transfered into blood some portion of the blood would mix into the person system.  Not a doctor or a drinker of blood so just guessing from regular human habits   Eating raw meat gives blood, but ti doesn't stay in the form through the body....


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Hey creamsteak - as has been our practice, we'll jump to a new thread once this one hits 500.


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## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Oh - somebody roll Knowledge: Nature, and tell me what you get.



Have to do this later- post what I get then (no dice and no char sheet)

As for the question on the switch, we already asked the literal people around and dwarves, I just wanted to see what other ideas the PC's had floating out there no matter how outlandish 

As for going down river, reason I asked about above is cause I want to, but group?.... it was in the picture prominently.  it seemed to be showing the unity of things.  may be just an easier way of getting around, but still may not be a bad way to go.

If it was for some to bring down then it would be near the surface.  Undead come crawling from below must lock them out and bring it back up far away from them.
If for no one then someplace protected and out of easy sight/reach most especially from undead.  Don't they hate water? J/K


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## The_Universe (Jan 5, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Have to do this later- post what I get then (no dice and no char sheet)
> 
> As for the question on the switch, we already asked the literal people around and dwarves, I just wanted to see what other ideas the PC's had floating out there no matter how outlandish
> 
> ...



 Always good to check for other ideas.  The river is narrow, and the cielings don't stay as high (or at least don't seem to) for its entire length.  You're somewhat near its beginning (you think) but where it goes/ends is a mystery.  Using a boat is possible, but may be dangerous.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 5, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Using a boat is possible, but may be dangerous.




Because we all know what good sailors the Circle of the Phoenix are!

*rolls her eyes*

Can't say that I think it's a very good idea... but, only because I think we might all die.

... on second thought, it's a GREAT idea!  Bring on the gong, baby!!


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## Xath (Jan 6, 2005)

Hey, at least one member of the Circle invested skill into Profession(Sailor)


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 6, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> Hey, at least one member of the Circle invested skill into Profession(Sailor)



 And just how much skill? ...numerically speaking, that is.


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## Xath (Jan 6, 2005)

She's got one rank, which brings her Skizzle up to +0.  All right, giggity giggity.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 6, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> She's got one rank, which brings her Skizzle up to +0.  All right, giggity giggity.



 Then I think using the boat is the perfect idea - it will obviously be successful beyond all reason.

*GONG*

... excellent.


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## Laurel (Jan 6, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Then I think using the boat is the perfect idea - it will obviously be successful beyond all reason.
> 
> *GONG*
> 
> ... excellent.



Okay so investigating the river that appears both in the mural and seems to be a way around this level and could be a constant supply of power should for some reason the ward need it is out.  There has to be some specific reason why Quarion chose here to build this thing.  What is different about here from any place else? 
Also with a wild shaper and a set of oars the small boat does not need sailors.  The big ship with all the sails that can come from the folding boat wouldn't fit in the space anyways, but can see that obviously we are against going on the river, so next idea?
We just move forward knocking on doors and sensing evil till we just happen across something that could be 'the switch'.....


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## Laurel (Jan 6, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Oh - somebody roll Knowledge: Nature, and tell me what you get.



16 + 8 = 24

Archy should roll too though as I thought he had some ranks in this too.....


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## The_Universe (Jan 6, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay so investigating the river that appears both in the mural and seems to be a way around this level and could be a constant supply of power should for some reason the ward need it is out. There has to be some specific reason why Quarion chose here to build this thing. What is different about here from any place else?



Yes - there has to be a reason he chose this place. Part of it is almost certainly that it is defensible, and relatively close to the wall, a necessity for powering the shield between the deathlands and the Falcon Kingdom. It was already a fortified city...what better place to hide the thing that keeps the Bluestar imprisoned?



> We just move forward knocking on doors and sensing evil till we just happen across something that could be 'the switch'.....



The "switch" itself is probably not evil, but nor is it good.  The energy that keeps the unliving (and the blood of the Bluestar) on the other side of the wall is not holy in origin...it is something else.


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## The_Universe (Jan 6, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> 16 + 8 = 24
> 
> Archy should roll too though as I thought he had some ranks in this too.....



 The river is probably ground water runoff from the freeze and thaw cycle above.  The snow falls, melts, is covered by other snows, etc.  You're too close to ground level at this point for there to be an underground lake or aquifer that feeds it, and you didn't see an above-ground lake or reservoir anywhere.  

However, if it _is _groundwater runoff, it is unusually clear.  Even where the Kraken hid, there's hardly any sign of impurity in the water.  The ink was washed away almost instantly, returning the water to a crystal clarity that only allows depth and darkness to hide things.


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## Laurel (Jan 6, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The river is probably ground water runoff from the freeze and thaw cycle above. The snow falls, melts, is covered by other snows, etc. You're too close to ground level at this point for there to be an underground lake or aquifer that feeds it, and you didn't see an above-ground lake or reservoir anywhere.
> 
> However, if it _is _groundwater runoff, it is unusually clear. Even where the Kraken hid, there's hardly any sign of impurity in the water. The ink was washed away almost instantly, returning the water to a crystal clarity that only allows depth and darkness to hide things.



So it is not quite exactly in the perfectly normal seeming- hmmmmmmmmm......

L'Aurel washes down Dara's blood with some cool stream water.... 

Just in case, by the way, L'Aurel does pop a note/ask someone to get her through the ring gate for a small vile of her blood.


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## Xath (Jan 6, 2005)

Where the heck would we get a vial of Dara Goldenblade's blood?


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## The_Universe (Jan 6, 2005)

Dara Goldenblade's blood?  

Who on the other side of the ring gate in Hyrwl would have a vial of Dara's blood (did I forget something I told someone?)?


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## Xath (Jan 6, 2005)

Remember, Dara Goldenblade isn't just hanging out in Hyrwl.  She's a servant of the Bluestar, and I believe the only person to see her has been Archon.  Once when we fought the Jade Forest assassins, and once when she was trying to persuade the Oceanus Bluemages to sell their souls to Big Blue.


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## Laurel (Jan 6, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Dara Goldenblade's blood?
> 
> Who on the other side of the ring gate in Hyrwl would have a vial of Dara's blood (did I forget something I told someone?)?



Sorry for a sec I got all of archy's women mixed up.  Nevermind on that one.


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## The_Universe (Jan 6, 2005)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Sorry for a sec I got all of archy's women mixed up.  Nevermind on that one.



 Heh - yeah, he's got one in every port.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 6, 2005)

Using the boat, even with oars, will require for us to make Sail checks, I believe.  We may get a bonus for the oars... but, sailing will still be *very* difficult.  Doesn't mean it's a bad thing... but, it does mean that it will be incredibly challenging.

However, if something seems off about the source of the river, we should probably find that.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jan 6, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> Remember, Dara Goldenblade isn't just hanging out in Hyrwl.  She's a servant of the Bluestar, and I believe the only person to see her has been Archon.  Once when we fought the Jade Forest assassins, and once when she was trying to persuade the Oceanus Bluemages to sell their souls to Big Blue.




More importantly, we determined quite a while ago that it was improbably that the "switch" was keyed to the blood of the Goldenblade family... that was, IIRC, a misread on my part that got blown out of proportion.


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## The_Universe (Jan 6, 2005)

We need to go to the new thread, we're past 500 here!  

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=113092

See you there. 

Creamsteak, please close and archive this thread!


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