# Off to War (always recruiting) OCC Year 2:



## HolyMan

Welcome all to the second year of my first EnWorld campaign. For anyone new viewing this thread I have opened the second post directly to you.
For everyone else who has been in this game or still is, a special welcome to you and thanks again for the great RPing this past year. I hope to hold up my end of the bargain as DM and I know all of you can and will do the same, and I want to thank you in advance.

Plans for the next year I have already been throwing out there and as we are in the middle of an exciting battle I will keep this short and just quote two of my favorite sayings about D&D.

_"Together the Dungeon Master and players make the game come alive."_ quote PHB pg.4

_"D&D is a social experience as well as an imaginative one. Be creative, be daring, and be true to your character... and most of all, have fun!"_ quote PHB pg.6

You can all count on me to be trying to have fun. 


HM


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## HolyMan

*For new people:*

The Treylor Empire is set to invade The Five Kingdoms of Borlim. The Great King of Borlim has sent out word to all the lesser kings to prepare for war. They in turn have sent word to their lords of the lands, all of the kingdoms brace for war.

The PC's will be part of a larger group setting out to join the army of the Great King. This way other player's can join or a player can run another character if they wish to play someone else. These characters are just people that were in the large encampment or whom you meet travelling.

There will be plenty of side adventures on the way to confront the Treylor.

The game will be* open to all* noone will be turned away what I want to do is have like a campfire setting PC's sitting around talking then as a group forms I'll run a mission/adventure. Leftover PC's or late comers will be on patrol/guard duty till mission is over or I'll run a related adventure or they could join up to replace characters who die or drop out.

This free flowing style has worked so far as when I have had drop outs they were eaisly explained away and there was always enough players still playing to form a group. Been a little light in the Rogue department so far but I have worked around it.

And also I have decided that XP earned by players is kept for the players, so if you wish to trade out a PC for a new one (for whatever reason) all the XP you earned is kept.

Characters Generation rules are here: 
Off to War Houserules 

And are very flexible and fair as like I said in the first post I am here to have fun. The customization rules are for you to make the ideal warrior, mage, or scoundrel. This is a character development heavy game and a few encounters thrown in to keep everyone from getting a big head. (To the group: still need to deal with that hydra btw) 

If you like the character gene rules and have no extra time on your hands for a game make a character and when you do see some free time you will be ready to go and like I said you could be on guard duty/patrol when not active.

Thanks for stopping in please fill free to say hello, and have fun here at EnWorld.

HM


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## Myth and Legend

Angry, bossy Wizard reporting in for year 2! 

From Lora to the others:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv4q4Kk0Qr0"]YouTube- Meredith Brooks - Bitch [OFFICIAL HQ VIDEO][/ame]


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

House-trained stud-muffin reporting in for year 2!  

*@Lora:*  Yeah, and that is why we love you.  Haha.  You crazy-B-you...


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## Gondsman

-yo


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## Frozen Messiah

Holy Crusader who just wants to survive, reporting for year 2


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## Dragonwriter

Your un-friendly neighborhood Duskblade is here as well.


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## Fangor the Fierce

uh, yeah... me too


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## HolyMan

Thanks everyone  and I know ghostcat is around just having internet problems (like I was two weeks ago). 

And that is an apporiate song to describe Lora, ML 

Wonder if Vance can break down that bearer?? LOL

Ok back to the fight about to get very interresting.

HM


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Vance and Loreen?*

HolyMan, I swear to Cambi.  If you try to have Vance put the moves on Myth's character, one more time...  I'm gonna find a reason to punch that bearded freak right in the nose.  Haha. *Kapow!*  XD

Trust me.  If crazy ol' Lora wants a man, she will tackle one and just cast sleep.  The End.  Game over.  Check Mate.  Bye bye virginity.  Haha.

So please...  Let it die.  Just let it go man.  Just, walk away...


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## Myth and Legend

Holy Man said:
			
		

> Wonder if Vance can break down that bearer?? LOL



Doubful, he won't have the time I think. I'm staying true to her character and will write her POV accordingly, and she has put up her defenses quite high. And you can't blame her for overreacting really, people react similarly nowadays to lesser things (like a divorce for example). I've been getting really in to psychology and NLP for the past year or so, and her problem is a 10 out of 10, which requires very specific methods or a lot of time and a guy she can trust to be overcome.



			
				Deskjob said:
			
		

> *Vance and Loreen?*
> 
> HolyMan, I swear to Cambi.  If you try to have Vance put the moves on Myth's character, one more time...  I'm gonna find a reason to punch that bearded freak right in the nose.  Haha. *Kapow!*  XD
> 
> Trust me.  If crazy ol' Lora wants a man, she will tackle one and just cast sleep.  The End.  Game over.  Check Mate.  Bye bye virginity.  Haha.
> 
> So please...  Let it die.  Just let it go man.  Just, walk away...




Yeah... Lora is not a virgin. Which is actually worse, if she were a virgin she'd have given in by now. You might want to read her backstory in the RG


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*



Myth and Legend said:


> Yeah... Lora is not a virgin. Which is actually worse, if she were a virgin she'd have given in by now. You might want to read her backstory in the RG




I meant for the poor sucker you jumped.  _*Da dun kish*_  ...Oooooo, ouch.  Walked right into that one...  

_*Lets Myth beat him*_

Awh, ouch, stop it!  Awgh, ouch, stop hitting me!  She's a mad woman!  Watch out...  

_*Runs and hides*_

Hehe.  But yeah.  I read Loreen's backstory too and liked it.  You got talent senorita, I'll give ya that.  Nice work.


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## Myth and Legend

Pff  You can't be sure I'm a girl just because I write from female POVs


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## Deskjob

Myth and Legend said:


> Pff  You can't be sure I'm a girl just because I write from female POVs




Haha.  Until the day when we all reveal our true identities as citizens of the internet,  I will continue to assume _anything_ I want.  Do trust though, that I do assume you to be a beautiful, talented, and successful woman who can accomplish anything she sets her mind to.

Unless you would like to correct me as to your appropriate gender?...  _*silence*_  ...Mmm, I didn't think so.  Lolz.  


*Politically Correct Sidenote:
Which is, of course, a decision I respect.  The internet is a routinely random place and we all should do our best to protect our identity and our interests.  I complete support any persons decision to withhold personal information in the interest of private security.


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## Myth and Legend

I'm here for the RPing and practicing my writing and English. Let's leave it at that


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

Haha.  I yield in my quest to unlock the secrets of the universe.  Myth, you win again.  Haha.  

...Man, what started this strange string of posts?  Oh right, "Vance + Lora = Love".  Now I remember...  Haha.


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## Dragonwriter

I'm just glad Jareth hasn't had to sit around so much with Vance giving Lora the eye. 

I still read it, as I find it interesting and like the interplay, but Jareth would get real tired of it, real quick... And that's a bad thing. (Especially when Burning Hands has _sooooo many_ uses. )


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@HolyMan:*  I have my mundane sword ready.  I don't have any other sword.  Sorry for the confusion.


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## HolyMan

Sorry might be my mistake I thought Vance gave you the captured elf's sword when he gave Claude the bow.

HM


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@HolyMan:*  According to post #207 in BaHM,  the elven prisoner carried no sword.  Only a dagger and a bow.  FM recieved the bow but later gave it back.  I find no mention of the dagger elsewhere.  Haha.  Sorry.  Must have missed it somewhere?


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## HolyMan

FROM post#207 BaHM:

A fine leather belt with a short blade and dagger still in their scarrabs clunks on the table. 

FROM post#228 BaHM: 

Vance takes the elf's weapons and hands the dagger to Robert, the sword to Marko and the bow to Claude. 

Ok so Marko should have a masterwork short sword somewhere on him. 

HM


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## Deskjob

*This is why I love you*

Wow.  I must be blind.  Thanks for clearing that up.  I totally didn't see any of that.  Haha.  See HolyMan, this is why I love you.  Even though your running a million threads all at once, your not above chasing down an elusive dozen words.

You Rock!


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## Myth and Legend

That's because Off to War was his original project and the one he is most passionate about


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## HolyMan

NP Deskjob I just thought a back-up weapon with an additional +1 to hit would be nice. And I know what it's like to miss something here in pbp I will do better to make sure I get my intent across from now on.

Thanks ML  yes Off to War is my #1 thread it does and always will get 110% of my time and effort. I hope to bring this to a full conculsion and beable to look back at it and say "That was fun!" 

HM


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> I hope to bring this to a full conculsion and beable to look back at it and say "That was fun!"
> 
> HM




Which will probably take some time, especially considering it's been a year and we're only now facing an advance raiding/skirmish division. And I expect to hang on for dear life on the crazy ride.


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## HolyMan

Thanks DW glad you will. Yes wait till a reall battle with mages on both sides, 

While searching for a darkspawn picture I fond this maybe FtF can use it.

HM


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## Dragonwriter

Darkspawn??? Please tell me you won't be throwing stuff like them at us any time soon...  (Side note: HATE the Emissaries!)

I recently picked up the PC game and finished it the first time (yeah, yeah, late to the party. I buy games late and cheap )... Broodmother creeped me out.

But that's a pretty neat pic of a warrior.


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## HolyMan

No DW I was looking for darkspawn for the DARP (Dragon Age RolePlay) game VV had me start. Some of the players don't have the rules so I at least want a few pics of the creatures for them. I found Blight wolves.

I too buy games late and have looked at Dragon Age and it's add-on. But I like games where you make a party and adventure (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale) and the like more. 

I do plan on sending everyone(in OtW) to the abyss or to one of the planes of hell so watch for that (at the apporiaporte level of course).

HM


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## Dragonwriter

Ick, Blight Wolves... They can be really vicious. If the book-RPG version of them gets Overwhelm, expect players to cry.  I hated it whenever the stupid animals just rushed my heavy warriors, knocked them to the ground and started tearing my warrior's throat out, with everyone else getting a similar treatment. Ugh...

If you're on the fence about it, definitely give it some thought. I loved it (but then, I'm also a major BioWare fan, since I picked up KOTOR 1 about 5 years ago... Played through Mass Effect 1 and 2 and now DA:O, can't get enough). Great story, excellently-written characters (get the Stone Prisoner DLC, it is awesome) and brutal combat. It doesn't fall into a hack-and-slash grindfest like a lot of console/PC RPGs can. Simple fights can turn bad really quickly, and most/all require some tactical thinking. There were times I nearly smashed my keyboard and mouse during certain boss fights, but I kept playing. The visuals are really good, too. The Archdemon in particular... Nothing quite like a twisted, demonic dragon to strike fear into your heart. 

Which reminds me... I gotta toss some half-fiend dragons at my high-level online group one of these days... *cue evil DM laugh*


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## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> Thanks DW glad you will. Yes wait till a reall battle with mages on both sides,
> 
> While searching for a darkspawn picture I fond this maybe FtF can use it.
> 
> HM





You know, that pic is pretty damn good!  Great choice for Mal, as it covers his gauntlets pretty nicely!


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## HolyMan

Thanks FtF I thought so to, and what about that "barbaric" hair style and the tattoos could be symbols from your dragon patron or something. A mark to say to other dragon's this vassal is mine.

Just add it to your RG post if you like. 

And how's the new background coming I still haven't given you background XP as I will wait for the add-on.

HM


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## Gondsman

not to get too technical, but just how many archers are there.  Far as I can tell there are 100, that means that dispersed on the ground around marko's previous position and the barrier are no more than 900 arrows (135pounds) so i have to wonder why this barrier, if it offers any protection at all, is collapsing with maybe a 100 pounds of arrows dispersed along it's 75 foot length, that's only 2 pounds max per foot of length.

So if the barricade can't handle that much weight, how does it hold itself up, and will it provide any protection at all when the melee ensues?


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## HolyMan

Sorry Gondsman this is one of those fantasy things you will have to imagine (and the wall is only 40' long, and 10'high)

HM


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## Frozen Messiah

How heavy is the wall? would...oh, lets say, 40 people be able to hold it above their heads? and if by chance they could hold it woud the other barriers be able to be moved to block the front of the newly carried barrier?


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## Gondsman

HolyMan said:


> Key:
> l l one square equals  15'x15'
> l l forest line
> l l Treylor ranks (archers are in the  tree lines using them for cover)
> l [ l barricades two on sides are 20'  long and 5' high, main one is 45' long and 10' high



By my calculations that is 85 feet long (more than my original estimate.

What you mean is that this is one of those "fudging it" things to manipulate the situation because you need to change something.  so, are the barriers going to do us any good in melee or not?


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## Fangor the Fierce

Why doesn't someone just rotate the wall section they are holding, adjacent person sunder the arrow shafts, then rotate it back?  If readied, it could be a quick 1 round action to do the whole process.  I believe someone here has a spiked chain, that could do it in 10 foot sections.


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## HolyMan

where to start:

there are three walls total

two are 20' x 5' on each side (not connected and moveable)
the main one is the 45' x 10'

the main wall is mostly doors from buildings and the manor fitted together by boards and it stays up do to some fence postings put in the ground.

This wall was erected in about 1/2 an hour (maybe less time) by nervous villiagers in a rush, so it isn't the greatest thing ever built. 

In melee the two smaller walls on the flanks may be fought across and will provide cover for both sides.  And the main wall will provide total cover to each side. So the enemy will have to go around the wall to engage you.

And no I'm not manipulating  cuze I need to change something I just thought it better the wall fall away from the villiagers now instead of on top of them when the Treylor line pounded into it. 

HM


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## Dragonwriter

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Why doesn't someone just rotate the wall section they are holding, adjacent person sunder the arrow shafts, then rotate it back?  If readied, it could be a quick 1 round action to do the whole process.  I believe someone here has a spiked chain, that could do it in 10 foot sections.




Neat idea. But the spiked chain (wielded by me, so even farther from the center wall section) cannot Sunder, according to the rules. In order to Sunder, you must be wielding a melee Slashing or Bludgeoning weapon, while my chain deals Piercing damage.

And Gondsman, this shows why you should have followed orders.


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## Gondsman

so do we have the option of pushing it over on the treylor at the last minute before they crash into it?  say a readied action?


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## HolyMan

Now your thinking yes that is possible but you will need to keep it from falling prematurely first I will think of the check and DC and update the IC tonight.

HM


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## HolyMan

Update complete.

HM


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*sigh*...

I'm just gonna ready wait for FM or Myth to issue some orders or something.  Otherwise I'll just be reading an attack for the foreseeable future.  Haha.


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## HolyMan

You and me both waiting on FM guess I made Claude's time to shine at a bad RL time. It happens and I will think of something else if this doesn't pan out.

HM


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## Deskjob

*Leave of Absence*

Hey all,

I'm not gonna be able to post for two weeks.  Internet stuff.  Sorry HolyMan, your just gonna have to hold down the fort for poor Marko.  Thanks peoples.

-Deskjob


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## HolyMan

Holding down the fort is easy since nothing is going on. 

Heads up will wait till Thu night to end the current round after I give out XP, and also I revived The Adventures of Mogins post and took out the placeholder if you care to see what the feline is up to. 

HM


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## Gondsman

HolyMan said:


> Holding down the fort




I do beleive the phrase is "hold the fort" [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw"]YouTube- David Mitchell Writes - Dear America...[/ame] He gets to is toward the end

and I'm an American


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## HolyMan

So are we to assume that since Deskjob said "hold down the fort" It is inflatable and will float away since he used his false beard and secert tunnel to take the cat to the vet??

Funny stuff I didn't no Europeans took things so literally. Reminds me one time when a girl from Hungrary came to work were I did and she asked me, "What language are you speaking." I said "English" and she said "That's not what it sounds like." LOL 

Big difference from American and European English that's for sure.


HM


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## Myth and Legend

England is the only English speaking country in Europe, and IMO British English is the correct English. I don't mind so much when Americans spell it color and armor, but some baltant mistakes make me want to claw my eyes out. In my experience when talking with Americans, they will frequently make the mistake of spelling it "dieing" instead of "dying" "lieing" instead of "lying", "to" instead of "too" mixing up "you're" and "your" etc.

I'm pretty sure that with some effort and the occasional spellchecker anyone who has English as his/her mother tongue can use it correctly. What bothers me is the lack of effort really. I don't need a dicionary to write properly in Bulgarian, and most of the times I don't need one to write in English. Why can't the US population make a similar effort in grasping the concepts of their own language is beyond me.

Note this is not an American bashing post, It's a reflection of my experience while talking with them over the Internet and in person for quite a while now.


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## HolyMan

America was suppose to be the laid back country that everyone was to chill at. So of course we have no time to go figuring out the proper time to use "you're" or "your". LOL

To me it is kind of sad though I work with a lot of 20-25 yr olds and it seems that this "laid back" attitude has turned into "I'm owed this freedom." not "We earned this freedom." 

Will not rant today maybe some other time.

HM


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## Dragonwriter

Myth and Legend said:


> England is the only English speaking country in Europe, and IMO British English is the correct English.




British English, quite honestly, should be considered the correct one. It came first and was the springboard for American. The trouble is, American English has diverged greatly since then.
(My brother knows a guy from India, and this guy speaks English well. But it is British English, which makes him rather confused when my brother and his uncle start chatting and using American turns of phrase.)

BTW, you aren't the only one who gets annoyed at those mistakes. Full-blooded American here (can trace family back to landing on the East Coast 200+ years ago), and it irks me when so many people can't even speak the language, much less spell it. I don't watch much in the way of news programs anymore simply because I am sick of hearing them interview people at the scene of something... People whose vocabulary consists of "like, so, um," and maybe a half-dozen other words...

But the spellchecker is... near-useless. They're fine for catching outright misspellings, but grammar and homonyms make them choke and die on their own stupidity. (I don't use spellchecker programs much either. )


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## Scratched_back

Hey Holyman, room for one more?

I was on the fence as to whether to join another game. My first, of which Myth is also a player, is moving agonisingly slowly and I need to fill up my working day somehow... Without working.

What swung it for me totally is the grammar conversation. I'm English and I love the English language; I'm even doing an English Literature degree right now!

I promise to spellcheck every post ;-)


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## HolyMan

Welcome Scratched_back (may I call you Sb?? plz call me HM) 

Whose posts were you planning on checking?(not mine I hope as everyone knows my grammar and spelling rank at about 3rd grade lvl.)

If you have been following you know we are in a little battle so fitting you in should be NP lots of unnamed faces in the mix. If you are "on the fence" as to what to play I can tell you that after this battle the group will split and it looks like so far I have..

Group 1: going to join back up with the army and stay around Harkon
Lora
Claude
Trinham
Aidan (incase Theroc shows up)

Group2: headed into the elven forest where humans shouldn't go
Malaroc
Marko
Lurik
Jareth

Any new characters that join before I start the newest side quest will probably end up in Group 2 and 5 PC's is good for what I have planned (have an NPC Tira but if there are 5 then she need not do alot to stand out, as it should be)

So think of a concept and when you wish to jump in and we can start you on your road to doing something at work (hey ML did I use your right in that sentence?? LOL )

Again welcome to our little game.

HM


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## Dragonwriter

Welcome, Scratched_back! Always good to see a new person interested.

(Are you serious the little thing about the grammar and spelling brought you on board?  )



HolyMan said:


> Group2: headed into the elven forest where humans shouldn't go
> Malaroc
> Marko
> Lurik
> Jareth
> 
> Any new characters that join before I start the newest side quest will probably end up in Group 2 and 5 PC's is good for what I have planned (have an NPC Tira but if there are 5 then she need not do alot to stand out, as it should be)




Okay, I'm going to voice my skepticism on this... Why would these other people need to go into the elven lands with me? For one, the less that come, the better. Secondly, Jareth doesn't exactly want company. Especially not from Lurik... No offense, Gondsman, but Lurik has already gotten on Jareth's nerves (not hard, I know, but it would just make things a lot rougher IC). The duskblade might be able to tolerate Marko and Malaroc, having had little interaction with them, or none in the case of Malaroc, but it would probably get a little troublesome. Jareth will really see this as his own personal business and these others as intruders.

I understand wanting to include others in the side quests, HM, but if they do not have a (good) reason, it will feel tacked-on. Wasn't part of the purpose of this game to allow many people to do many different things? Trying to shoehorn extra people into a situation may be too difficult for both the characters and you as the DM.


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## HolyMan

NP there DW you do plan on having Jareth leave on his own (If I even allow that, I have something sneaky planned there. ).

Now either you will:

a) tell everyone you are leaving (or disappear) and not to where, and I have Rizella let it slip, which leads to the afore mention people chasing after you for one reason or another.

b) you tell everyone you are going to meet up with Tira to save Tharivol and you will be back later, which leads to the afore mentioned people following because it is dangerous and once they are there well they are there 

c) you leave and I have a secert DM reason that has to do with the overall campaign as to why the afore mentioned people are sent chasing after you. - This reason can not be explained at this time just trust me I have been working on it for months now and it will be another great twist. Come on have I let anyone down so far.

But you are correct if anyone else joins in the campaign it is guard duty for them till I can figure something out. May need an IC and two side adventures.

HM


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## Scratched_back

I was only joking about the grammar... I'm not going to be some sort of Grammar Nazi stinking up your game, hahah. Sometimes it's just nice to hear that the little things that annoy me annoy others, too ;-)

I'm going to read through all the house rules and stuff today and hopefully have a character ready to jump in this time tomorrow.

HM, I already have an idea for a character, I may PM you later about it as there seems to be a lot of scope for personalising a PC here, cool.


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## Myth and Legend

Interesting develipment. Both Lora and Jareth are hard to deal with and not overly friendly, yet there never was a "clash of the angry titans" between them. They seem to tolerate each other pretty well. But Lurlik, who Gondsman portrays as Sheldon Cooper on steroids, is getting on both of these character's nerves 

Ain't we a colourful bunch!


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## ghostcat

Myth and Legend said:


> England is the only English speaking country in Europe,




Close but no banana. England is actual part of the United Kingdom, which consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Non of the later three consider themselves part of England but all speak English. Then we have Eire (southern Ireland), which is definitely not part of the UK. Finally, there are the Channel Islands, the Isle of Mann and Gibraltar, which although British protectorates, are separate countries.  

Sorry for nitpicking but there is a lot of history tied up in the about. Most of which would make "Off to War" look like a walk in the park.

Finally it can be noted that all the English speaking countries (except for Gibraltar) are part of the British Isles, which is a geographic not a political entity.

Posted by Ghostcat, who now expects himself to be flamed for getting some of the details wrong


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## Myth and Legend

Dang it ghostcat you know what I meant!  So he Isle of Man is a separate country? I'm curious as i've read some nice folk tales and myths from the IOM (actually published in this book) To me, if these guys are making your laws, defending your borders, building your libraries and kindergartens, they are your government, and as such it's the same country. Especially since there are no borders between Wales, England and Scotland. I should know, I travelled around the UK in fall 2008. So don't argue semantics  I do admit Ireland is a separate country, but they have their Gaelic as well (which i love as a language).


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## ghostcat

I do know what you mean Myth. But as I say, there is a lot of history and no true Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman would let you get away with saying England is the only European country that speaks English. 

As far as the IoM is concerned its a separate country. It has its own parliament and does not elect members to the UK parliament. This is different from Wales and Scotland, which although their have there own government, their scopes are limited and both countries elect members for the UK parliament.


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## Myth and Legend

Yes the people living in Great Britain are different ethnicities with their own cultures and history. I sitll view it as a signle country and call it England (simply because in Bulgarian we just call it Anglia /Англия/). I do understand the differences however.


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## Dragonwriter

Myth and Legend said:


> Interesting develipment. Both Lora and Jareth are hard to deal with and not overly friendly, yet there never was a "clash of the angry titans" between them. They seem to tolerate each other pretty well. But Lurlik, who Gondsman portrays as Sheldon Cooper on steroids, is getting on both of these character's nerves
> 
> Ain't we a colourful bunch!




Yeah, I'm not quite sure how we have avoided some hurricane/volcano meeting this long... It may be because the few times Lora and Jareth have actually dealt with one another, they were each on rather good behavior. And their anger tends to be somewhat general, not specifically directed at any one person for long.

The thing with Lurik, for Jareth, is definitely his arrogance. Jareth grew up in a noble family, dealt with some elves in the past... He's used to arrogance and he still can't stand it.


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## HolyMan

*Experience July 1st - July 15th*



		Code:
	

Fangor the Fierce                    25
ghostcat                            180
Gondsman                             40
Myth and Legend                      60
Deskjob                              10


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

I have internet again.  Oh yeah!  So I'm back.  Woot woot.  (Just in time too, looks like HM is updating this very moment.  Nice...)


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## HolyMan

Yes and I am finished and Off to Bed... 

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce

"With no true leadership to help at the wall the villiagers panic and let it fall to soon."

Guess I should be more specific on when I drop the fence, as I had hoped to avoid that mishap by moving to the front of the line.  I thought my readied action would take that into account, as he had it 'ready to throw at the enemy once they are in range'.  Which, I assume within range was within 10 feet of the wall.  If it is for 'battle effect', then that's your choice.

Big choice for me here in this round coming up.  I do have one thought going on, which I would like to throw at the group.  Mal has two torches on his pack.  If possible, would he be able to 'drop' the pack for a pair of villagers to each grab a torch, while their adjacent villager ally lights the torch, at which time the villagers can then throw the torches at the wooden wall, igniting it?  Having a wall of fire on the Treylor would be a nice spectacle to behold.  Plus, it would allow us to control the battle field a little more.

Is this possible?


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Wall of Fire?*

The wall was protection against the archers.  With the wall gone, the only protection we have left is a full scrimmage.  Separation of troops at this point will only give the archers another chance to volley fire on our position.

Of course, this statement disregards the impending affects of Vance's rear charge.  Which we are unlikely to see for some time.

Best to leave the tricks to the commanders and stick to fighting.  Once you become the armies Official Strategist, you can improvise all you want.  Until then, just kill stuff.  ...Thoughts from a grunt soldier.


*Marko's Combat Notes:*

I posted assuming Jareth missed on his Opportunity Attack.  Sorry.  Also, since both Jareth and Marko were colored Purple?  I assigned myself the closest 3 colored troops.  Hope that works.  Lolz.


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> "With no true leadership to help at the wall the villiagers panic and let it fall to soon."
> 
> Guess I should be more specific on when I drop the fence, as I had hoped to avoid that mishap by moving to the front of the line.  I thought my readied action would take that into account, as he had it 'ready to throw at the enemy once they are in range'. Which, I assume within range was within 10 feet of the wall. If it is for 'battle effect', then that's your choice.




Well What I meant by "let it fall" was they didn't hold it up long in favor of gripping weapons, they didn't push it, they just stopped holding it and Malaroc couldn't keep it up by himself. Sorry it was early in the mornin need to start posting more in the evenings.

@ Scratched_back gave your character a curtisoy look as I do before breaking out the red ink, LOL and a few things before I look him over fully.

a) Ranger modified - please put an sblock in of the swaps you took.
b) Deity Tyr - is this the same from FR or are you planning on modifiying a god by that name and you could have took - none, but servant of The Church
c) Welcome to the "Zero Charisma." Group (from E.T. if you didn't know)
d) no need for Orc as a language not many of them around. And Sylvan let me look into that but I thought you were an Urban type guy? There could be native languages Fm an me decided that Reygurians speak cajun LOL
e) Apperance and all is good,I think we can introduce you go ahead and give an opening post. You are from the great city Siere (where the church is based) and on a mission and you were heading to Harkon Manor for some info when a large explosion happened of to the south. Moving in that direction you hear the sounds of battle and creep in for a look. You see the fighting going on at it's current stage (i.e. wall down, Treylor nearest you engaged with humans) from the woods edge. 
f) Backgrund TBC with HolyMan  I am working on some things like the churches BoO and what your mission is. We will get this done very soon.

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

Whoops, there's a couple of things on there that were a bit of a hangover from a previous concept (Tyr and Sylvan being prime examples). I'll go through that now and get them changed, and I'll put a neat summary of the changes we made to "Urbanise" him, hahah.

As for the languages, what would you recommend? By nature of his occupation he is well travelled, so even if the two languages are distant and unrelated, I think that'd be fine. It's the flavour that's more important. I want to pick languages of the, ummm, less reputable types 

EDIT: I'm going to start chomping through the Harkon Manor thread. Hopefully will be a slow day at work today and I'll be finished reading by this afternoon, then I'll jump in with a more informed introduction/action this evening. REALLY looking forward to it!


----------



## Gondsman

whew! internet dropped out suddenly for a few days but it is back and I missed a lot.

Just want to point out that we American's deliberately misspell most of those words to distinguish ourselves from the Imperials *snicker*.  And over the years we've added so many rules and exceptions to the book, not to mention the hundreds of dialects for a country so large (including Ebonics and Text) that there really is no correct way to write in American English without at least a PhD in Literature or something, and I am proud to be a deliberate Rebel *snicker*.  Besides, most of us can barely read and you expect us to write?

We still see ourselves as the dominant world power that can force everyone to work and we can play and do as we please.  Later, perhaps, we'll learn otherwise and capitulate to what other countries tell us is right and learn their language like all those other countries in Europe.


As for the new guy, Be Afraid, Be Very.... oh wait you're joining our group not Loreen's.


----------



## Myth and Legend

> we American's


----------



## Scratched_back

Myth and Legend said:


>




Frowning at the nationality, or the apostrophe looking for a better home, Myth?


----------



## Dragonwriter

Considering the grammar/linguistic discussion going on above, I'd go with the apostrophe.


----------



## Gondsman

I were hopping yould spot that.


----------



## Scratched_back

Gondsman said:


> I were hopping yould spot that.




Hahah, now you're talking! That's almost as good as English education!


----------



## HolyMan

@ Deskjob great job on the post but you didn't need to say who attacked whom because the treylor in spot 9,5 was dead do to the AoO and I will say your guy attacked the other one 9,6?

@ DW great job and I was going to roll your AoO but I couldn't make heads or tails of your character sheet (Don't make me go and have you use on of ML's sheets, ) also no need for the trip attempt seeing as how the attack did 11 points of damage to a guy with 5 hp.

@Gondsman I thought you ussed that scroll to make hemp cloth, soaked it and covered the wall. (That was extra weight I forgot to mention before I thought of it about three weeks before the She's gonna fall post) But you did use the scroll for that didn't you?

@everyone else but Scratched_back is everyone going to wait till the Treylor advance if so I will post a round 1.5 and march them into your ready actions. 

@ Scratched_back will give your character a full check on Mon nite till then you can post some of what you see of the battle from your prospective. And thanks for the kudos I am trying to run a fun game here.

Alright need to know asap on your intentions and then I will move things along.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @ DW great job and I was going to roll your AoO but I couldn't make heads or tails of your character sheet (Don't make me go and have you use on of ML's sheets, ) also no need for the trip attempt seeing as how the attack did 11 points of damage to a guy with 5 hp.




Oh, c'mon, it's pretty simple. The weapon section has the attack bonus and the damage bonus, plain as day. 
Please don't make me use Myth's format. Nice as it is for the post, it is a nightmare for me to access on my Word files... All the formatting stuff makes it hard to read. 



> Alright need to know asap on your intentions and then I will move things along.
> 
> HM




Kill 'em all!   

()


----------



## Gondsman

I guess I did.  one of those spur of the moment adaptations due to things proceeding without me.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@HolyMan:*

Since Jareth's opportunity attack killed enemy95 previous to my posting, I will have the allied target changed from 95 to 96.  Thus killing enemy96.  Which eliminates two enemy attacks also, since 95 and 96 are now dead.  Thus allied units take no damage.  I will edit my post.


----------



## HolyMan

@Deskjob don't worry about who attacks who as that will get real confusing just roll your attacks and aids and such, and post up the results with a bit of fluff. And I will sort out those details. Partly why I wanted to run the combat in stages like this so I didn't need to make attacks for 20 villiagers and then 20 treylor all in the same night. And I sort out a little at a time as you all post up.

@Scratched_back: Do you wish for Elmsy to charge when in range??

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

HolyMan said:


> @Scratched_back: Do you wish for Elmsy to charge when in range??




Yes please, HM. But I'd like to position myself to attack from their side, and not from the rear. I don't want to be left stood by myself in between the Treylor at the barricade and the archers at the back, thanks


----------



## HolyMan

Well let me look at your character's INT and WIS scores before I decide that wouldn't want to play you out of character. 

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

HolyMan said:


> Well let me look at your character's INT and WIS scores before I decide that wouldn't want to play you out of character.
> 
> HM




Oh, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised


----------



## HolyMan

Looks like the red ink needs to come out early LOL

INT: 14 (+2)
WIS: 14 (+1) should be +2 

hmm above average smarts and wisdom that may serve you well.  Will have you set to charge in the next round still waiting for answer to the "Do you wait on the Treylor question."

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

HolyMan said:


> Looks like the red ink needs to come out early LOL
> 
> INT: 14 (+2)
> WIS: 14 (+1) should be +2
> 
> hmm above average smarts and wisdom that may serve you well.  Well have you set to charge in the next round still waiting for answer to the "Do you wait on the Treylor question."
> 
> HM




Whoops, all changed, all my skills were showing the correct +2, must've just slipped up on the stat line. I was just making sure you were awake 

Charging next round will do nicely, what question are you waiting for me to answer, sorry?


----------



## HolyMan

Not you everyone else LOL

And I am not awake it is 4:30 in the morning here.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Elms
[B]Class:[/B] Ranger (modified)
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male
[B]Alignment:[/B] C/G
[B]Deity:[/B] Agnostic, but serves the church.
 
[B]Str:[/B] 14 (+2)     [B]Level:[/B] 1        [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 16 (+3)     [B]BAB:[/B] +1         [B]HP:[/B] 10 (1d8+2)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 (+2)     [B]Grapple:[/B] +3     [B]Dmg Red:[/B] 0
[B]Int:[/B] 14 (+2)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30'      [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0
[B]Wis:[/B] 14 (+2)     [B]Init:[/B] +3        [B]Spell Save:[/B] 0
[B]Cha:[/B]  9 (-1)     [B]ACP:[/B] -X         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0
 
                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +3    +0    +3    +0    +0    +0    16
[B]Touch:[/B] 13              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 13
[B][COLOR=red]change size to DB please[/COLOR][/B]
 
                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      2    +2          +4
[B]Ref:[/B]                       2    +3          +5
[B]Will:[/B]                      0    +2          +2
 
[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/B]
Bolas                     +4     1d4           x2
Shortsword (single)       +5     1d6+2      19-20 (x2)
[B][COLOR=red]please add range for the bolas (10') and note that it does non lethal damage[/COLOR][/B]
 
[B]Languages:[/B] Common, Reyguran (Reygur), Kurkish (Kurkland).
[COLOR=red][B]would that be Reygurian? I'm not even sure.[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
[B]Abilities:[/B] Favoured Enemy (Human), Track, Non-Lethal Damage, -1 ACP. [B][COLOR=red]?[/COLOR][/B]
 
[B]Feats:[/B] EWP: Bolas, Stealthy (+2 Hide / +2 Move Silently), WFo & WFi: Shortsword.
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] 44       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 4/2
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Climb                      3    +2          +5
Gather Information         4    -1          +3
Hide                       4    +3      +2  +9
Intimidate                 3    +2          +5
Listen                     4    +2          +6
Move Silently              4    +3      +2  +9
Open Lock                  3    +3          +6
Search                     3    +2          +5
Sense Motive               3    +2          +5
Spot                       4    +2          +6
Survival                   4    +2          +6
Use Rope                   4    +3      +2  +9
Ride                       2    +5          +7
 
[B][COLOR=red]have skill point total at 45 (1 over)[/COLOR][/B]
 
[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]
Studded Leather Armour   25gp   20lb
Bolas                     5gp    2lb
Bolas                     5gp    2lb
Shortsword               10gp    2lb
Shortsword               10gp    2lb
Silk Rope                10gp    5lb
Grappling Hook            1gp    4lb
Lockpicks                15gp    1lb
Torches (3)               3cp    3lb
Signal Whistle            8sp    n/a
Flint & Steel             1gp    n/a
 
[B]Total Weight:[/B]41lb      [B]Money:[/B] 38gp 1sp 7cp
 
[COLOR=red][B]Two things I assume lockpicks meansd Thieves tools which cost 30gp[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B]And I am not a stickler but how are you carrying your gear??[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B]No belt pouch/sack/backpack means your torches are stuck between your belt? LOL[/B][/COLOR]
 
                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]               58   59-116  117-175

 
*Age:* 30
*Height:* 6'1"
*Weight:* 170lb
*Eyes:* Grey
*Hair:* Black, thick, messy.
*Skin:* White, tanned, rough.

*Appearance:* Standing at over six feet tall, Elms has an athletic figure and carries himself with the lithe confidence of a fighter. Almond-shaped grey eyes and thick black hair are spoiled by a lopsided smile, unusually prominent incisors, rough skin and a nose that looks to have been broken several times. Elms dresses in worn, dark studded leather and carries two shortswords. One in a hip scabbard, the other slung with the hilt cocked behind his left shoulder. Slung over his right shoulder and around his torso is a length of dark, silken rope. A bolas, his preferred (and only) ranged weapon hangs from his belt.

[Sblock=Changes from Ranger template]
*REMOVED*:
Ability - Wild Empathy
Ability - Animal Companion
Skill - Handle Animal
Skill - Knowledge: Nature.

*ADDED:*
Ability - Non-lethal Damage *please explain this ability good swap for wild empathy*
Feat - EWP: Bolas
Skill - Gather Information
Skill - Intimidate (Str)
*those three above can be swapped for animal companion approved*
Skill - Sense Motive *for handle animal approved*
Skill - Open Lock. *for knowldge nature (should Knowldge local be a class skill?) approved*

*And another ability you have listed above is -1ACP how and for what?*
[/Sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

ok I need to go out for dinner be back in EnWorld tonight and update for the fight tommorrow so please get an action in if you haven't

@ SB remember that you need not have this modified justicar set at first lvl their are still plenty of lvls and abilties to gain. Oh darn I just realized you can't get anything for animal companion yet you don't have that ability. Darn it.

Umm I gtg will be first thing I look at tonight. 

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

HM: I will take my character discussion to a PM between you and I, just so I don't clog up this thread any more than necessary.


----------



## HolyMan

I have responded to the PM and I have to let you know ahead of time I can't give you swaps for abilities you don't have yet. Was going to see if you wanted to chat via yahoo to speed along a resolve for this.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

well since I do believe it is slow I added a little fluff to the IC for those new to the game it is located here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258495-off-war-ic.html

It went a page up on me so you should start at the bottom of page 19 but you will see. 

HM


----------



## Gondsman

DW, this comes from page 307 of the DMG


----------



## HolyMan

Hmmm I think DW is right and these rules are a little to much I'm thinking of condensing them to:

Each PC will have contorl over two allies on that is adjacent to him and one that is behind him. 

The ally behind you will "watch your back" and you may roll an aid another to gain a +2 AC for the round. The adjacent ally will be allowed to do whatever you want them to do.

And I will control the treylor as I will have to move them and all on the map.

Let's call these basic rules and when we have them down we will try more advance ones. Like dividing up everyone between two characters and what not.

Everyone ok with this any questions I will be online a little while need to update the battle.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Thanks Gondsman. I couldn't recall the exact area, and I didn't have a chance to open up my books.

And thank you, HM. Those condensed rules sound a lot better. 1 Aider, 1 Ally and the PC are a lot simpler to handle.


----------



## HolyMan

NP I have all movements done (whew that was painful ) 

Ok SB if you are on you may take your round 11 charge action and I have you in a flank postion so +4 to your roll. 

I am now going to do all the NPC attacks to be fair I'm going to have the init based on two to one odds with the villiagers getting to have two people attack before the treylor have one and back and forth down the row.

An add on to your condensed rules. If you have a PC or ally attack a treylor who has another treylor behind him roll his "watch your back" (aid another +2AC) before attacking. As this is how they are trained.

ok I'm heading back after checking threads.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Sorry, this mass combat has me at a loss, as I had no idea who I was able to control, their info, etc.  Kept it simple, but even my idea of torching the arrow wall was 'snuffed' by others, (pun intended).

Looking at his HP, Mal looks to be in trouble very soon...

Oh, and I have NO idea where I go in the order of actions.  Do I simply post away?  Wait for Lora's actions to go through?  Sorry, bit of a loss here for me...


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry about the mass rules FtF they were untested. Will work on them

As for when you can post you may post at any time but a player ahead of you may trump your actions and we can edit if that happens. I had your character swing at an advancing Treylor because your weapons were put away. But it is now Round 13 and every can state there actions. 

I have colored your allies together so you can move them. Really just like playing another PC there stats are in the RG and I have a link in the combat box so you can have them up in a new window.

Just take your actions and if your worried about your hp don't forget you can fight defensively or withdraw to do some healing while helping others with aid another or what not.

*OK every updated including fluff.*

And I know the aid another rule is not being followed correctly for now just use the "watch your back" rule and I will post it as a house rule soon.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, now that I have the info, can I add one action to the end of Mal's?  He is ALWAYS armed, as spiked gauntlets allow that option.  So, he's got a weapon, and knows how to use it.  Also, since I now see that the Treylor have only 5HP, I would like to switch my aura to Energy, so that all melee attacks on any ally within 30' cause the foes to take 2 points acid dmg.  

Possible?

EDIT - also, what is my initiative? I can't seem to find where that was sorted.  I am assuming I am last now, due to the entries of the actions.


----------



## HolyMan

Anything is possible and I did use your spiked guantlet info in the RG to make the attack. 

You can change your aura on your turn as a swift action.

Hows the background coming I'm hoping to give out bonus XP before the next regular XP date. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@ SB caught your post in BaHM and was wondering on your math. Since you are new here I will tell you math and me are not friends. So check my checking please.

1d20 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 1d20 + 9

+ 3 = Weapon Finese

+ 1 = BAB

+ 1 = Weapon Focus

+ 2 = Charge

+ 2 = Flank

Crediting rainbow math to Gondsman I like how you did that in the IC

I would have probably allowed the flat-footed (even though he had already acted this round) had Elms not of screamed and alerted him to his presence. 

Remeber that was your round 12 action and you still need to post a round 13

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

HolyMan said:


> @ SB caught your post in BaHM and was wondering on your math. Since you are new here I will tell you math and me are not friends. So check my checking please.
> 
> 1d20 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 1d20 + 9
> 
> + 3 = Weapon Finese
> 
> + 1 = BAB
> 
> + 1 = Weapon Focus
> 
> + 2 = Charge
> 
> + 2 = Flank
> 
> Crediting rainbow math to Gondsman I like how you did that in the IC
> 
> I would have probably allowed the flat-footed (even though he had already acted this round) had Elms not of screamed and alerted him to his presence.
> 
> Remeber that was your round 12 action and you still need to post a round 13
> 
> HM




It's funny, about ten minutes after I posted it in the IC I got to thinking "Hmm, I had an awful lot of bonuses to hit there.", but it was bed time and I resolved to sort it out in the morning (I.e. now).

I see exactly what's happened, you mentioned that I was flanking, so that was +4 to hit, which I assumed to be some house rule or effect from another player or something... now I re-read it, you're including the charge bonus within that +2, which I didn't. Effectively I had +2 too many, not even going into the enemy's Dex bonus. So it's a miss. I'll edit it now. Let's put it down to teething trouble 

Hopefully I'll get the bastard in my round 13 swing, which I shall do now


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM i came across an Open mass combat rules pdf. Don't have the time to check it out, but I thought i'd share it.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

Personally HM.  I found the rules easy to understand.  You give us good guys and bad guys to work with, and we run the combat for you.  It doesn't get much easier than that.

Granted the Opportunity Attacks threw me off a bit.  But it was just a bump in an-otherwise smooth ride.  But, if you want to run the 100+ Treylor yourself?  Fine by me...

But can you do a favor for me?  I need you post up our "Initiative Order" in your update posts.  I'm pretty sure Marko was 3rd.  Thanks.


----------



## HolyMan

Opps ok will do, 

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

Opps.  Having internet trouble.  Won't be able to post for awhile.  Sorry.  Just giving a heads up.  Thanks.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, HM, Mal background updated.  It's been a while since we talked last, not sure what all was covered with the inventory items, but I removed the crafting materials for now.  Anything else not looking right, let me know.

Thanks!


----------



## HolyMan

Great job FtF I awarded you 250 XP for the background and have already added them to the RG. I will work on your recent quest givin to you by "the dragon" (you can name her if you like). It will probably have something to do with the elves though. (go figure)

@ Gondsman did I see you added more hp to your charater in the IC?? that led me to going over your charater in the RG should have let me know you lvl'ed him up. I just need to know what a Practiced Spellcaster is and need a write up for Lesser Orb of Cold. 

*Update tommorrow night for those who haven't posted their actions for this round. *

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

Damn it, I knew I forgot something! I still need to submit my background, HM!

I wrote probably 60-70% of it already but got sidelined by family stuff. I shall lock the wife in the cupboard and get it to you in the next 24 hours


----------



## Gondsman

didn't say anything because I'm not done.  the practiced spellcaster is the feat that lets me count levels from another class to determine caster level.  I figure I'll just take the feats, though now that I think about it I don't get another feat until L3, so that one is going away.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

You know, you can always check the crystalkeep sources for all info.  You can download the docs on any subject, like spells, and it will give you the pertinent info, such as spell description, brief overview, what book/pg it came from, etc.  Just thought if anyone didn't have it, it's handy for when you don't have books handy...

Crystal Keep - D&D and d20 System

HM - Yeah, sorry, I had written his background a few times, but it was always on laptop, which I never uploaded.  Got that sorted, and sorry it took so long.  I will have to think of a name for the dragon, might take a little time.  Should be interesting though, with his 'alternate' objectives and the group.


----------



## Gondsman

still making adjustments to my sheet, I'll let you know when I'm done.  I'll be unable to post starting wed morning through friday afternoon.


I've been looking at the Divine/Turn undead feats, and all the ones I like are modified by a charisma bonus that I don't have.  Tell you what, if Lurik dies, when I re-roll I'll go Sorcerer/Cleric, a better fit, but on the odd chance that I make it to L20, I won't get to cast L9 arcane spells (stupid epic level rules)


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Gondsman said:


> still making adjustments to my sheet, I'll let you know when I'm done.  I'll be unable to post starting wed morning through friday afternoon.
> 
> 
> I've been looking at the Divine/Turn undead feats, and all the ones I like are modified by a charisma bonus that I don't have.  Tell you what, if Lurik dies, when I re-roll I'll go Sorcerer/Cleric, a better fit, but on the odd chance that I make it to L20, I won't get to cast L9 arcane spells (stupid epic level rules)




Not unless you burned all STAT advances at levels 4,8,12, 16 and 20 on CHA, as well as getting a +4CHA Item.  But yeah, sucks to have to do it that way.


----------



## HolyMan

Update complete.

Just let me know when you are finished with your lvl ups Gondsman so we can see about adding some things to the character as the battle rages on.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HM

Can I have control of the villagers in F15 & 16 please? They don't seem to be doing anything at the moment.


----------



## HolyMan

you mean F5 and F6 there is no numbers 15 & 16 you can and I have went and highlighted them to your color code

I think last round they just moved up besode you from in back of the group. At least I had alot of villiagers move to help on each flank.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

An option of course on the turning feats would be to substitute (as a house rule) charisma for wisdom, being that for a regular cleric, putting points in wis and cha isn't so bad, but where I have two spellcasting classes with Int and Wis for spells, it is tough to allow points also for Cha.  So, were you to rule thus, I would put more consideration into those feats.



and gosh dangit, after now 11 attack rolls for myself, other than one nat 19 at range with them fighting defensively that missed, and one nat 14 that with mods would have missed the non defensive, my best rolls have been 11's.  My only other two decent rolls have been for the treylor.  oh for the future of arcane spells with touch attacks!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

So, does anyone care if Robert dies this coming round?  I have a chance to save him from dying, but it will take some luck with the dice...  If I could move one step south, he would be in the aura to stabilize... but I would have to switch auras...

HM - what is my initiative?  I would like to switch auras after the Treylor attack, but with time to save Robert if possible.  I understand if I would have to choose one other the other, but the Initiative listing would be good to note.  Might even be too late, if he goes before me and fails his stabilization roll.


----------



## HolyMan

If you wish your turn checks to be based on WIS I see nothing to wrong with that. I play clerics alot and find it hard myself to have a good WIS, STR, and CHA. But before we do that why does having turning checks based on WIS effect your desision to take a Divine feat? I would think you would want one so you could use all your turn checks by the end of the day.

I have been thinking for my homebrewed rules about using the ability to channel positive energy into healing spells when they are cast. I was thinking of using a turn attempt for the day to get max hp on one die. So it would take two turn attempts to max out cure moderate, and three for cure serious and so on. I know it trumps some feats but it could be a feat itself or a part of the healing domain. Thoughts everyone on this house rule.

@ FtF sorry for the confusion Robert isn't at -9hp that is how much damage he has taken. He's a lvl 8 ranger and unlike ML (everyone is different ) for my NPC's I only do what is needed when it is needed. Like figuring out his attack bonus for melee. I don't know his hp yet so the -9 is letting me know how much damage he has takin. When it gets close to -30 I might see about doing his HP. LOL just don't like puuting something in stone till I have to.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

what I'm talking about is feats like (i can't remember the name off the top of my head) that allows me to use a turn attempt to grant fast healing 3 to allies in a burst for a number of rounds equal to my _charisma modifier_, and several others that last for a similar number of rounds or otherwise use the charisma modifier.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Gondsman said:


> An option of course on the turning feats would be to substitute (as a house rule) charisma for wisdom, being that for a regular cleric, putting points in wis and cha isn't so bad, but where I have two spellcasting classes with Int and Wis for spells, it is tough to allow points also for Cha.  So, were you to rule thus, I would put more consideration into those feats.





Gondsman said:


> what I'm talking about is feats like (i can't remember the name off the top of my head) that allows me to use a turn attempt to grant fast healing 3 to allies in a burst for a number of rounds equal to my _charisma modifier_, and several others that last for a similar number of rounds or otherwise use the charisma modifier.




As a different voice here, I'm going to chime in for a sec... What's the trade? If you swap Turning to be based on WIS instead of CHA, what are you trading for it? As I see it, you are just getting a power boost.

Now, I know Theurge-type characters aren't considered the strongest possible, but keying a class feature off of a different attribute would give a significant power boost to a rather potent base class.

And HM, I think the "incentive" to take the feats, if turns/day were based on WIS, would be getting more uses. And the CHA bonus stuff. Personally, rather than just giving the power boost, I think it should either take a trade in class features or make it a feat. And FYI, there are feats out there capable of changing a key attribute (Kung-Fu Genius, from Dragon Magazine, allowed Monks to use INT instead of WIS for all class features). I know Dragon is notorious for stupidly-broken things, but that feat is pretty sensible.

There's my 2 cp on the issue.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks for the feedback DW.

I do want the turns/day to get some use. I mean I hate it when something of a characters sits around unused encounter after encounter. 

But what Gondsman is asking for is not really a swap but an alternative to the main rule. So we are saying turn undead should be keyed to WIS rather than CHA. And as I said I don't mind that.

Do we really think it will be a power boost? Yes he will have a +1 or +2 higher WIS bonus than CHA but those couple points shouldn't make or break this ability. And all those CHA based feats are limited to number of uses (your number of turns/day) and the situation. So what I'm saying is I don't see alot of useage just potent ones when he does use them.

It will really depend on the feat chosen and then it is up to me to put the characters in a situation to use them. (Means undead are coming, and if we ever get a rogue in the group you'll have to watch your step alot more carefully.)

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> and if we ever get a rogue in the group you'll have to watch your step alot more carefully.)HM




Ah, ok!  So... anyone joining up - NO ROGUES!  Then we can have peace of mind for no traps?  Kidding!

But, I do agree that moving the Turn Undead to WIS based for feats, attempts/day, as well as modifier bonuses is really a bonus, and nothing being traded for it.  Clerics were built as a 'power' class in my opinion, as they have the weapons, the armor, the feats, the spells and the domains, as well as Turn Ability.  BAB is decent as well.

Personally, I would require a trade off for the movement of Turn Undead using WIS as ability.  NO idea what a trade off would be, but just voicing my opinion.  Mystic Theurge was meant to 'dabble' on both arts, which seems to have lessened the ability to Turn Undead, which I would think was ok, given the progression that the mystic theurge gains.


----------



## Gondsman

I'm fine with the existing rules for the turning, I really don't care all that much about the turning undead, I know as a GM in one experience with a super unbalanced party (as in a L8 cleric, L5 fighter, 2 L3's and 2 L1's) the turning thing got a little out of hand (anything the L1's could fight he'd just destroy on sight) and at low levels, Turning is really just crowd control, if that.  

What this comes down to is that HM want's me to find use in those turn attempts even without undead to fight, but all the cool alternatives use the Cha bonus and I therefore get nothing out of them, so, for the purpose of the feat only, I'd ask to rewrite the feat such that I get something out of it.

The fast healing one does require 8 ranks in heal so i can't get it right away anyway.

Another option, we make up a feat, that allows me to channel turn attempts as cure spells of one level lower than the highest level spell I can cast, so right now, I'd channel for Cure minor wounds, then when I can cast L2 spells I'd channel for Cure Light wounds


----------



## Scratched_back

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Ah, ok!  So... anyone joining up - NO ROGUES!  Then we can have peace of mind for no traps?  Kidding!




I can search for traps now... I err... Just can't do much about them when I do find them


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Ah, ok! So... anyone joining up - NO ROGUES! Then we can have peace of mind for no traps? Kidding!
> 
> But, I do agree that moving the Turn Undead to WIS based for feats, attempts/day, as well as modifier bonuses is really a bonus, and nothing being traded for it. Clerics were built as a 'power' class in my opinion, as they have the weapons, the armor, the feats, the spells and the domains, as well as Turn Ability. BAB is decent as well.
> 
> Personally, I would require a trade off for the movement of Turn Undead using WIS as ability. NO idea what a trade off would be, but just voicing my opinion. Mystic Theurge was meant to 'dabble' on both arts, which seems to have lessened the ability to Turn Undead, which I would think was ok, given the progression that the mystic theurge gains.




Note: there will be traps but only about 1/8 the norm for D&D

But as I said all that goes out the window if I keep the situation in which to use the turn ability down. So it would be great to have something to do with them even if I only throw undead at you all once a year. But for balance sake I see your point. 



Gondsman said:


> I'm fine with the existing rules for the turning, I really don't care all that much about the turning undead, I know as a GM in one experience with a super unbalanced party (as in a L8 cleric, L5 fighter, 2 L3's and 2 L1's) the turning thing got a little out of hand (anything the L1's could fight he'd just destroy on sight) and at low levels, Turning is really just crowd control, if that.
> 
> What this comes down to is that HM want's me to find use in those turn attempts even without undead to fight, but all the cool alternatives use the Cha bonus and I therefore get nothing out of them, so, for the purpose of the feat only, I'd ask to rewrite the feat such that I get something out of it.
> 
> The fast healing one does require 8 ranks in heal so i can't get it right away anyway.
> 
> Another option, we make up a feat, that allows me to channel turn attempts as cure spells of one level lower than the highest level spell I can cast, so right now, I'd channel for Cure minor wounds, then when I can cast L2 spells I'd channel for Cure Light wounds




I like your option and that would work as well. Are you saying keep Turn undead based on CHA but base the Divine Feats on WIS? So that would be do-able also depending on the "layout" of the feat, perhaps some should be based on CON or INT



Scratched_back said:


> I can search for traps now... I err... Just can't do much about them when I do find them




You have trapfinding as an ability>? Or just saying you have a good search skill?

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

HolyMan said:
			
		

> You have trapfinding as an ability>? Or just saying you have a good search skill?
> 
> HM




Sorry, me being needlessly complicated. I meant I have a high search skill... although I had thought about discussing trapfinding with you at a later date. Far from a priority though, it largely depends on how the character develops.



*In other news, I finally posted my background, it's in the RG now ready for inspection *


----------



## HolyMan

Headed there right now looks to be a little light reading before I post my swashbuckler thread. And this will get Elms some XP, very nice I love the smell of fresh XP in the evenings. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Very nice I just can't wait to get to the city if Siere for an adventure.

I'm think probably around 10th or 11th lvl and it will be a grand one trust me. 

As for your background I don't know sarted out kind of in the middle and didn't give a reason for why he wishes to join.

*J/K*

Great work it gave me a new NPC antagonist, a new language to have the PC's figure out, a mystery that may never be solved (what is the church up to with this man), Elms showing he's not a mindless drone just taking orders, a few new names like Order of Justice (love this actually, so will be adding it and some fluff to the campaign) and Whore Alley. In the end Elms has an obscure mission to complete which I can detail and have it swing into the newest adventure. ALL an all great work and a bonus 350 XP I do believe the most ever earned.

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

Glad you liked it, HM. I had a blast writing it! Originally it'd only meant to be a small piece, just the scene with Elms stalking someone, but the whole thing escalated out of control, hahah!

The real-world language I used to represent the foreign tongue is Finnish, you can roll it through google translator to get an idea what they're saying, although it's not really necessary for the story I guess.

I loved writing the Bishop too, I love the thought that just because he's a Bishop doesn't mean he's a nice person, it's more about political manoeuvring and power than it is religion... for him at least.

350xp? Very nice, thanks! I'll add that on now


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Just to confirm, is this the initiative?
Lora 
Claude 
Marko 
Lurik 
Elms
Malaroc
Jareth
Trinham

Thanks, FtF

Also, am I able to take control of some Villagers now?  I see some potential flanking/aid another attempts, but would need villagers from back ranks to flank>aid another>attack>move if treylor is killed-scenarios


----------



## HolyMan

ok everyone is posted in initative order in the combat block and that is:

Claude
Lurik
Marko
Jareth
Elms
Lora
Trinham
Malaroc

I have everyone sectioned of by flanks and the center but they go in those orders in those sections.

Second aid another is a standard action so you can not use aid another more than once in a round. To make two attacks or two aids would be a full round action.

Which really bites because I loved the fluff you added (oh and great name for the dragon) to go with it. As for aiding defensively I don't see why not you should beable to perform anything you wish while looking to protect yourself so will have to take your first roll and say you aided Claude. 

And will have the villiagers move up to fill the gaps.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Awe crap!  Oh well, my mistake.  Forgot that Aid Another was a standard action.  Oh well, and the first roll missed the aid Another, so no luck.  Edited the post to reflect it now.


----------



## HolyMan

No FtF the first roll would have hit even with the -4 as you forgot to add the bless bonus. But it aids as you would be rolling 1d20+3. 

Hey I wasn't sure if you could aid twice with two attacks either till I read it.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> No FtF the first roll would have hit even with the -4 as you forgot to add the bless bonus. But it aids as you would be rolling 1d20+3.
> 
> Hey I wasn't sure if you could aid twice with two attacks either till I read it.
> 
> HM




Ah!  In that case, re-edit coming right up!  Forgot about bless, damn!  Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## HolyMan

No problem I have been not adding it to the NPC's on purpose so those times I forget it the rolls are the same and I can just add the one. 

Heads up for anyone who hasn't acted in this round yet I will be updating tomorrow night and giving out end of the month XP. Please try and get an action in even of you can't roll for it I will be doing so much of that I think I can for you as well. just let me know what you wish to do.

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Hello all!

I am super new here and have yet to join a game. HolyMan has been my Patron Saint so far, and linked me to this one! I would like to join the battle, and I am open to whatever class you all need. (since I don't really know what I'd like to be anyway)

HolyMan offered to help me  make a character, so I will hopefully see you all soon!


----------



## Scratched_back

Welcome to the game, Sugar_silk. 

I'm brand new here myself so I won't presume to speak for the group or anything, but my advice would be to read through the previous in-game story (or as much as you can, there is a lot!) and gauge what you want to play based on the way the story is going.

I've read the whole thing from start to finish and I've not seen a situation yet where the group couldn't overcome something because they didn't have the right type of people in the party. HM appears to write the encounters based around the party and not the other way around, so play what takes your fancy and have fun


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Welcome Sugar Silk!  I also agree, that you should play something you like to play.  It also depends on what books/source information you have available, as that would limit you.  If you want more sources, you can get most of the basics from The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org  That link has all the basic rules, plus a few variants.

Also, if you want more information, such as classes, feats, etc, and where to look, there is an online repository of documents that has most of the lists of classes, feats, spells, etc.  Crystal Keep - D&D and d20 System 

Lots of things to read, but it all depends on what type of character you would like.  Plus, HM will work with you on any concept to make it something more accustomed to what you like.  As far as I have seen, almost ANYTHING is possible here in this game.

Enjoy!


----------



## HolyMan

Aww shucks you guys are to much.  

LOL I am trying to run a game that appeals to all and S_b has it right I gear around what is being played not put in any old thing. So whatever you like from playing before or something new and you haven't yet tried.

The bard stats you PMed me were good especially if ghostcat's character goes back to the main camp then the group going to see the elves will need a faceman, er.. face-person. 

So first I would ask for concept and apperance (and again ask if you want to take over Tira?) and a little backstory and then we can crunch out some numbers.

I have alot to do to get XP and the round finished so I am Off to Work. 

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Ok... first off, thank you for letting me join this game! I'd also like to apologize for the flood of private messages, Holy.

I will put this one to the group:



> Since the setting is one where we will encounter many soldiers, I was  wondering about a couple ideas I had for custom professions. Which would you guys rather have in the party?
> 
> 1.) *Courtesan:* basically capitalizing on my character's high charisma and dexterity by serving as a 'lady of the evening'
> 
> 2.) *Gambler:* using her charisma and bluff skills to consistently win in games of dice and cards
> 
> 3.)*Fortune Teller: *young men off to war are often curious about what their futures may hold




They will all generate the same amount of coin (if i read the skill section correctly) but there is potential for some RP flavor differences so I thought I'd have you all chime in!


----------



## HolyMan

NP Sugar Silk I have room for 70 LOL  just wanted to be able to go back over things we talk about easier and that can be done here instead of viewing a bunch of PM's

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience July 16th - July 31st*

Ok back to work for your DM 



		Code:
	

[U]Player                                         XP[/U]
 
Dragonwriter                                 250
Fangor the Fierce                             50
ghostcat                                     245
Gondsman                                     115
Deskjob                                       50
Scratched_back                                80
Myth and Legend                               60

 
It has accured to me that XP are extremely lower during combats than RP (as it should be) but do not worry their will be a big chunk of XP handed out after you complete the goal of this adventure.

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

Sugar_Silk said:


> I will put this one to the group:
> 
> 
> 
> They will all generate the same amount of coin (if i read the skill section correctly) but there is potential for some RP flavor differences so I thought I'd have you all chime in!




Only you can make the choice, but I would say probably a toss up between the Courtesan and the Fortune Teller. Both have the potential for great RP situations - probably the courtesan having the more amusing opportunities - but then again with something like a Fortune Teller, you give yourself the option of maybe stepping into a spell-casting class later on if you get bored of just being a conversation-based character.


----------



## HolyMan

OK editing complete and we are ready for round 15 actions please post up. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Alright, I have to voice a concern here...

The rolls are a little troublesome, it would seem. Due to the huge number of attacks you are rolling (and the sadism of IC), HM, we are getting hit with crits left and right. Every single set of rolls you have made has had at least 1 threat and it usually confirms.

Now, I don't mind crits every so often... But this is silly. It also doesn't help that 3.5 rules are oriented for small group fighting, not massive battles, but that is another issue. Your HRs for the mass combats have sped things up a bit, but the overly-large opposing force increases randomness and that hurts PCs. And if we do manage to get the infantry out of our faces, the archers will just make us all into pincushions anyway...


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

OUCH!  Ok, so how many of those Treylor took acid damage, as I don't see that updated.  Thanks!


----------



## Dragonwriter

And silly me, I didn't even welcome the new person. 

So, welcome to the game, Sugar Silk! And welcome to ENWorld!

On the character ideas you voiced, here is my opinion: Courtesan is a very interesting one, though a little odd to find in an army on the move/joining the army; Gambler is much more likely, since soldiers often would gamble in down time; Fortune Teller would be tricky, since that would strongly imply you using magic, not just a skill (this is a magic world, after all), and could set you up for some trouble. But then, so could Courtesan...

Each of them sounds interesting, but I have to say you should play the style and class you want. And no matter what you do, it is likely to annoy Jareth (my bad-tempered Duskblade) at some point.


----------



## HolyMan

What really weird is I only get nat 20's when rolling for the treylor,  I don't think once the men at arms, villiagers, Robert or any PC's I have rolled for has gotten more than 1 nat 20.

It will need twiking for the end game and I was thinking this would break down into little fights because you can really only worry about those around you. But the best laid plans never survive contact with the enemy. (this case IC is the enemy)

And FtF five of the perviously wounded treylor took damage again and were reduced to 1 hp so the are the ones who fled the fight. I just took them off the board as they are out of the fight and will not fight anymore.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ah, ok.  Makes sense, as I was unsure of the numbers.  As long as they are running away, lol.  Now I can yell at them... IC of course!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Whew!  Glad to be back online now, with the whole motherboard issue now resolved.  HM - On the previous Character notes, can you update me to AC19, as I was fighting defensively?  Not sure if that makes any difference to the damage taken, but worth mentioning.


----------



## HolyMan

No my bad and a good catch, to bad that treylor hit you with a 22 (acccording to my notes).

I wouldn't have remebered it for the next round should they go before you.

@ all sorry for the slow pace of this battle but I think it will wind down for the PC's soon.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> No my bad and a good catch, to bad that treylor hit you with a 22 (acccording to my notes).
> 
> I wouldn't have remebered it for the next round should they go before you.
> 
> @ all sorry for the slow pace of this battle but I think it will wind down for the PC's soon.
> 
> HM




No prob, as I almost missed it as well.  Although, I am hoping for a miracle, as I don't see Mal being able to withstand another attack.  He's gotta retreat or something, but I would hate for him to be seen as 'cowardly', from his perspective.


----------



## HolyMan

Maybe he should go to the rear and face this "new threat" and then in his eyes he was doing the right thing. As those around you Claude and Lora for example aren't going to do anything about the advancing gnoll pack.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

the sad thing about the rolling is that I've gone and averaged together the results of every d20 I've rolled for Lurik and it comes out to 10.5 so somehow or other, even just my own rolls (the only good ones were spellcraft rolls) work out as fair.  I imagine it works the same for the treylor, but when there are 300 of them rolling fair dice that's 15 natural twenties to maybe 2 or 3 for our whole force.

FF: I totally thought Malaroc was over by Trinham, but you are next on my list for a little healing.

so I'm going to use the scroll at this point on Trinham, then move up so that next round I can dart in and sacrifice bless for a cure to Malaroc, though that will require a rules re-terpretation to allow me to move, cast, move.


----------



## HolyMan

well the whole feeling for your characters was to survive an intense battle by a larger force. So I think that has come about, 

What do you mean move cast move?? You could delay and tell Malaroc to come to you.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Yeah, Mal's aura is switching as well, so he will enable those allies that are 'killed' to be stabilized.  I am hoping he is able to prevent the villagers from dying.  He will be moving back to the read guard, and work to offer healing to those around him.  His aura is only 30', so I will try to get the best location for the most usage.


----------



## Gondsman

Malaroc has 2 hp and from where he is standing would draw AoO's from 4 treylor if he tried to move over where I could get to him.(given the present setup)


----------



## Dragonwriter

So use the Withdraw action. Full-round, double movement, starting square draws no AoO. You can still take a Swift action to change your aura before or after Withdrawing.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Dragonwriter said:


> So use the Withdraw action. Full-round, double movement, starting square draws no AoO. You can still take a Swift action to change your aura before or after Withdrawing.




Exactly what I was planning on doing.


----------



## Gondsman

Dragonwriter said:


> So use the Withdraw action. Full-round, double movement, starting square draws no AoO.* You* can still take a Swift action to change* your *aura before or after Withdrawing.




are you talking to me (lurik) or Fangor the Fierce (malaroc)?

He'd still draw one AoO


Anyway, HM and I worked somethign else out via PM, just Leave Mal where he is and try not to die before next round.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Gondsman said:


> are you talking to me (lurik) or Fangor the Fierce (malaroc)?
> 
> He'd still draw one AoO
> 
> 
> Anyway, HM and I worked somethign else out via PM, just Leave Mal where he is and try not to die before next round.




Uh, no, I would not draw an AoO.  First square is not treated as threatened, and I can move diagonally, then north.  That would put me at a 5 foot step from your movement.


----------



## HolyMan

@ FtF great posting there buddy. I am awarding you 50XP on the spot I am heading to the RG right now  Really bringing the Dragon Shaman class and Malaroc to life.

@ Sugar Silk great background for Darling (hope I remembered that right) I have been racking my brain all day as to how to fit her in, you'll have to give me a couple days and let me know some stats, skill choices, and feats maybe that will help. But want to fit you in for some RP soon.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> @ FtF great posting there buddy. I am awarding you 50XP on the spot I am heading to the RG right now  Really bringing the Dragon Shaman class and Malaroc to life.HM




Thanks!  I figured his background and deal with the copper dragon would come out little by little.  Things like the acid burning the Treylor and them running away helped to give the background some meaning.  I will see what other circumstances come his way and what they tell of his past.


----------



## HolyMan

YW FtF  I'm just glad we will be getting a better RP for how the Dragon Shaman powers work/come about. Pretty vague in the PHB2 says "you just worship them and gain powers". 

BTW heads up as I will be updating tommorrow afternoon for those who haven't posted actions this round yet.

Lora
Elms
Claude
Marko

I guess FM is out  (bites) and how long did Deskjob say he would be away for?

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> better RP for how the Dragon Shaman powers work/come about. Pretty vague in the PHB2 says "you just worship them and gain powers".




And Clerics are any different?


----------



## HolyMan

All the difference in the world LOL as it states that clerics are granted the use of their patrons divine power in the form of spells and abilities. So I can see someone being suffused with small portions of godly power in exchange for them following the tenths of their chosen religion, praying for enlightment everyday, titheing, and shouting praises to others about the powers of their god.

My main thing when reading about them was that they didn't truly explain how a character recieves his abilities or gains new ones. He just has them - there they are - because he thinks dragons are great. LOL So I talked with FtF and we figured out that dragons need vassals and helpers, and in return they are infused with draconic like powers and taught how to use them.

I mean in the PHB2 it didn't even say your character needed to know anything about dragons to take this class. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

As far as combat goes, do you think I could get some kind of poison or something for my knives? Or... what can you suggest for a little more sting? Will Look into it but you may need a skill or feat to use it properly.

Please check out the* spell res/spell fail* bits too. I couldn't quite figure those out...

Spell resistance is correct you have none yet.
Spell Fail is your chance for a spell to fail for wearing armor. None also

[sblock=Modifications]


		Code:
	

Traded Armor Prof (Light) for +1 BAB [COLOR=red]let me think on this trade please[/COLOR]
Traded Simple Wep Prof for Exotic Wep (Shuriken) [COLOR=red]So your profs are longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, whip (what was your job at the Red Lotus again LOL :p), and shuriken --will allow that.[/COLOR]
Traded Shield Prof for Wep Focus (Shuriken) [COLOR=red]allowed[/COLOR]

[/sblock]

[sblock=Character]
	
	




		Code:
	

Name: Darling
Class: Bard (modified)
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Female
Alignment: C/N
Deity: Farlanghn [COLOR=red]not a deity of this world look at Deskjob's created deity[/COLOR] [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/4845108-post7.html] Cambi [/url] [COLOR=red]or you could make up your own [/COLOR]
 
Str:  8 (-1)     Level: 1        XP: 0
Dex: 14 (+2)     BAB: +1 [COLOR=red]pending[/COLOR]        HP: 6 (1d6+0)
Con: 10 (+0)     Grapple: +0     Dmg Red: 0
Int: 14 (+2)     Speed: 30'      Spell Res: 0[COLOR=red]%[/COLOR]
Wis: 13 (+1)     Init: +2        Spell Save: +4 [COLOR=red]14 + spell lvl[/COLOR]
Cha: 18 (+4)     ACP: 0          Spell Fail: 0[COLOR=red]%[/COLOR]
 
                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex   DB    Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:              10    +0    +0    +2    +0    +0    +0    12
Touch: 12              Flatfooted: 10
 
                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      0    +0          +0
Ref:                       2    +2          +4
Will:                      2    +1          +3
 
Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical  Range        Notes
Shuriken                  +2     1d2[COLOR=red](-1 for str)[/COLOR]           x2      10'       see Feats
 
Languages: Common, Celestial, Elven, Dwarven. [COLOR=red]one to many[/COLOR]
 
Abilities: Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music, Fascinate, Countersong, Inspire Courage +1.
 
Feats: EWP:(Shuriken), Wep Focus:(Shuriken), Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Negotiator.
 
Skill Points: 40 [COLOR=red](should be 44)[/COLOR]      Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Bluff                      4    +4          +8
Concentration              4    +0          +4
Diplomacy                  4    +4    +2    +10
Gather Information         4    +4          +8
Knowledge (History)        4    +2          +6
Perform (Sing)             4    +4          +8
Profession (Courtesan)     4    +1          +5
Sense Motive               4    +1    +2    +7
Sleight of Hand            4    +2          +6
Tumble                     4    +2          +6
Use Magic Device           4    +4          +8
 
 
Equipment:               Cost  Weight
Gemmed Headband          30gp    1lb
Fur Lined Hood           10gp    2lbs
Fashionable Backpack      5gp    2lbs
Short Cotton Dress        2gp    1lb
Thigh Belt                1gp   .5lb
2x Small Pouch     (ea.)  1gp   .5lb    
15x Shuriken       (ea.)  1gp   .5lb [COLOR=red](5 shurkien cost 1 gp and wiegh .5 lb should read 3gp 1.5lb)[/COLOR]
Vial of Perfume           7gp   .5lb
Small Steel Mirror       10gp   .5lb
Flask of Fine Liquor      2gp    1lb
Pair of Handcuffs        15gp    2lbs
Bar of Fine Soap          1gp    1lb
 
Total Weight: 20lbs     Money: 10gp 0sp 0cp  Gems: [COLOR=red]have you at 88gp spent out of 100 gp so 12gp left (oh and buy a whip LOL won't find to many.)[/COLOR] :p
 
                          Lgt    Med     Hvy
Max Weight:               26    27-53   54-80

[/sblock]


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I spent alot of time and tried to get things right, but that is still alot less red than I was expecting to see! 

The main reason I did the Base Attack trade was that the other weapon feats required it. I also figured it would be ok since she would pretty much be useless with any weapon other than the shurikens, and they deal so little damage anyway. If I read correctly, you'd rather count shuriken as a simple weapon and keep simple weapon proficiency instead of swapping for the exotic?

The damage on them gets -1 for Str but then is that cancelled out by some of my feats? Or is that simply the proper way to notate it and then just apply those bonuses at the time the weapon is thrown...

The 10gp I had on there was from a Profession check I made after spending my initial 100gp. I rolled a 15 and had a +5 to the skill, so half of that is 10... is that right? I did overestimate the cost of the shurikens though, so I should be at 22 then? ...before I buy a whip of course


----------



## HolyMan

I have been thinking about the trade out and while I will allow it to gain your feats I wish to play it this way.

Trade armor prof light and ability to cast spells in light armor or less for +1 BAB but that is not a cumlative add on so at 2nd lvl you will still be at +1 BAB. And will progress normally from then on.

You still lose all simple weapon proficiencies I was just listing all the weapons you would be prof with. To make sure that is what you wanted. Just strange you won't be prof with a staff or club, but would know how to use say a rapier (which requires alot more skill and training).

Your shuriken should probably look like this and you can copy/paste it if you wish:



		Code:
	

Weapon             Attack    Damage   Crit   Range  Special
shuriken            +5          1      x2     10'    point blank
shuriken(RF)       +3/+3        1      X2     10'    point blank

 
What else money please link in any rolls from Invisible Castle if you need help with that I'm sure anyone will be able to if I'm not around.

Lastly are you sure you wish to have bard as your base class? In your build the only bardic things are the music and knowledge (you didn't pick spells yet) the rest of the character could be another class. I don't want to change your mind if you are set on being a bard but some other classes seem to fit almost better if you don't mind losing the music and knowledge ability.

*Monk *- has diplomacy, profession, and perform all as skills(others could be changed around), you don't wish to wear armor and the bonus to AC could be helpful (maybe switch your WIS and INT). Weapons can be switched around a little take away all the monk exotic ones but shuriken, no need for handaxe, javelins or the crossbows and add whip. The list becomes a few simple everyday weapons + shuriken and whip (got to have the whip), unlike the bard list. 

No need for rapid shot and the ability to defend yourself unarmed and pinch a nerve (Stunning Fist) seem like things the Red Lotus might teach their ladies.

*Ranger *- as a base it would have the BAB you wanted and you could mold the classes skills and abilities to urbanize it. Lose Wild Empathy gain Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills, change a few others like the Knowledge skills (to woodsy). Keep Track but gain a -2 in wilderness +2 in the city. 

Favored enemy human, to bad you can't break it down to human(male) and get a further bonus LOL. But the +2 to bluff, sense motive and all would be useful at the Red Lotus, and the +2 weapon damage brings the shuriken to 3 pts against humans. 

Combat style Archery to give you rapid shot and others later.

Change Medium Armor and shield in for Dodge and Mobility.

And of course...

*Rogue *- the skills are without question the key to your character and at 8 + 2 HB + 2 INT + 1 human you would have 13 of them at 4 ranks.

Would let you trade hand crossbow out for shuriken (about the same), and rapier and short bow out for whip. I like the ideal of being prof wth a sap something a courtsean might carry.

Then there is sneak attack if you can get the drop on someone the shuriken become 1 + 1d6 damage items and gain in damage as you progress. This is the best way to get them to be deadly but has it's drawbacks too. (Which as a true DM I must exploit now and again.)

Feats for this build are a little trickier: 

HB - +2/+2 of your choice
Human - Point Blank Shot
1st LvL - Combat Expertise
trade - armor prof light for Improved Feint 

Your character I just wanted to make sure you know that we can take any class and make it fit your concept (even fighter). Just want you to play the character as you see her. Let me know and post her crunch in the RG please.


HM


----------



## Gondsman

Well, HM so much for the plan to get my level up in, I'll watch for another opportunity


----------



## HolyMan

In initative don't you go before Malaroc??

HM


----------



## Gondsman

i do, next round, after he moves, that is unless I skip trinham and repost for this round


----------



## HolyMan

Oh right then, what about changing up to help a villiager or man at arms. Just look for the red marked ones.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Did I mess things up with my action?


----------



## HolyMan

Nope we will get this done Gondsman was looking to kill two birds with one stone LOL but we will get his level up post in it is going to be a really good post.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

just leave me a convenient hole to move to near one.


----------



## HolyMan

I think IC set you up very nicely Gondsman, and guess whose name you get to put in the post in place of Malarocs  (LMAO) 

give you a hint starts with an "L" and ends with an "a"  (ROTFLMAO).

We are all updated and I can't wait to read this.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I think I will wait until the others post, as I am last in initiative.  Not sure what happened, but I thought I would be at 5,9 instead of 3,c but I guess that was due to the healing from Claude?  Just kinda threw me off that I was healed so quickly in the beginning of the round, and then withdrew while healed.

Confusing when HM has to play out the other PC actions, but hey, I'm healed!!!


----------



## HolyMan

I will change Claude's init that will make it simpler. LOL

All the actions happen in the round just when is subject to a little leeway  do to everything going on around you. And I didn't see that you posted where you wanted to end up did I miss it I will change your location if so.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

It'd be nice if she were just a bit closer to death....


I probably won't get it done today


----------



## HolyMan

What you want me to edit that?? It was a crit you can describe the wound anyway you wish. 

HM


----------



## Gondsman

not edit, but Lurik would most likely prefer saving her when much closer to death.


----------



## HolyMan

Well there is always DW's character only I am finding myself wanting him to die more and more.

No offense DW but from an RP/story/character development perspective it is almost good that your fight is going this way. I could RP with you in the nether void with your family. In the story you would miss your chance to go with Tira (something I am planning already) and the lower lvl group would go. And as for Jareth he might become alittle more cautions in fights knowing that he can't get the vengence he seeks by blindly going into a fight or all out. He just may learn some patience. And his hatred for the Treylor would increase ten fold.

No worries about dying remember Brend is a 9th lvl cleric  (oh that reminds me raise dead is strongly houseruled in every game I have ever ran, no way it takes only one minute to cast, and doesn't cost a lvl but worse a point of CON) 

@Sugar Silk are your changes made and are you ready for some RPing I have thought of a way to get you in the game. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Well there is always DW's character only I am finding myself wanting him to die more and more.




Gee, thanks... Really makes me want to play. 



> No offense DW but from an RP/story/character development perspective it is almost good that your fight is going this way. I could RP with you in the nether void with your family. In the story you would miss your chance to go with Tira (something I am planning already) and the lower lvl group would go. And as for Jareth he might become alittle more cautions in fights knowing that he can't get the vengence he seeks by blindly going into a fight or all out. He just may learn some patience. And his hatred for the Treylor would increase ten fold.
> 
> No worries about dying remember Brend is a 9th lvl cleric  (oh that reminds me raise dead is strongly houseruled in every game I have ever ran, no way it takes only one minute to cast, and doesn't cost a lvl but worse a point of CON)




Couple of issues with that... I thought characters don't remember what happens beyond the veil. And there is the issue of the afterlife, assuming I die... Jareth is TN and kinda hates the gods for what they allowed to happen to his family (not so much dad, but mom and siblings). Depending on how you set his family member's alignments, he technically shouldn't see any of them in his afterlife.

And forcing Jareth out of a sidequest that deeply involves him is... cheap, if you ask me. Especially after you've been making a bit of a to-do about his involvement.

The intimation that Jareth was reckless, though, I am a little annoyed about. Vance was reckless. He has the capability of pulling it off, but it was reckless nonetheless. Jareth held his ground, didn't rush at the enemy and has been making the best of an incredibly bad situation. He even fought defensively and with Combat Expertise. His nearness to death is the result of the massive battle you threw at us and the evilness of IC. And the low-quality gear, which is another issue entirely... (I mean c'mon! Not a single MWK weapon among us? Or even MWK Armor?!? In other games, he would have a Mithral Shirt, at least!)

As for the HR, it would've been nice if you had included that in your original HRs post...


----------



## HolyMan

To much to respond to so will just say the game evolves as it goes on. Before it would have been ok for Jareth to go with the low lvls on the adventure but soon he will be 4th and they on an average of 2nd I see it as a wide gap. So am thinking he should go with the originals but it is still open to debate you could live through this meet Tira as planned but as I said I think I like the other ideal better. Both are up in the air as the game goes on I need contigencies. Just voicing I like the other over the original.

Equipment will always be under the norm and I have handed out mwk weapons I can't help it they were givin back (Claude's bow) or not used (Marko's sword) or ignored like the mwk armor I described in the armory. And I can't help some people have unique items I will have to wait to enchant once some of your characters get on Dellex's good side (LOL can't wait to RP that).

So am I over here playing by myself or something because it sure feels like it.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I am simply waiting for more posts of actions, as Mal goes last.  Easier to know what to do when the other players have their actions.


----------



## Myth and Legend

If the burning hands kills most of Lora's glitterdust targets I could Benigh Transposition her and Jareth after the healing?


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> I am simply waiting for more posts of actions, as Mal goes last. Easier to know what to do when the other players have their actions.




Not what I meant I meant knowing what is going on in the game. Or remebering I tried to hand out mwk items. 

Like a good question where are the healing potions from the ettercap?

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

HolyMan said:


> So am I over here playing by myself or something because it sure feels like it.




I wouldn't say that at all. I can't wait to get stuck into the RPing side of things, and once I start accumulating items and experience, I'll be ruthless with what I observe/comment on/interact with.

Slightly unfortunate for me personally the way this battle has gone so far though. I appeared on the edge of the action, charged in, attacked three times and missed all three, then took a stab to the gut, hahah. Nobody's fault, just the way things go 

It's hard for me at the minute with no supernatural tom-foolery going on to post much other than "I swing, I miss.". I'm trying to flesh it out a bit but struggling... wait until combat is over


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I posted my changes in the gallery. If it all looks good to you, then I am ready to jump in whenever!


----------



## Myth and Legend

> It's hard for me at the minute with no supernatural tom-foolery going on  to post much other than "I swing, I miss.". I'm trying to flesh it out a  bit but struggling... wait until combat is over



Ah yes... the worst thing about 3.5 fighter classes. Wizards can fly, become invisible, summon demons, disintegrate, cause paralysis, change dimensions, create things out of thin air, create magical items...

Fighters can swing and charge.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I'm getting excited to join you all, now! In particular, I have enjoyed Lora and her hang-ups with men. I wonder what she will think of Darling? Should be fun. 

I noticed the characters all speak with different colored text... do I need to choose a color? or are those assigned somehow? I don't want to step on toes if you guys track this somehow.


----------



## HolyMan

Here is the perfect color for Darling.

I'm sorry you won't start with the group right away I am going to put you in the camp and have you sent to meet up with them after the battle. Is that ok?

HM


----------



## HolyMan

If the above is ok then please join me here (last post):

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258495-off-war-ic.html

And we will get Darling into some RP action before she heads out to meet the PC's.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Myth and Legend said:


> If the burning hands kills most of Lora's glitterdust targets I could Benigh Transposition her and Jareth after the healing?




Might work... Certainly get Jareth out of the hot water he faces at the moment... But a sudden change of leadership would be odd for the soldiers. And Lora isn't terribly well-equipped to be in the thick of things right there...



Sugar_Silk said:


> I noticed the characters all speak with different colored text... do I need to choose a color? or are those assigned somehow? I don't want to step on toes if you guys track this somehow.




Whatever you want. There is the one HM just suggested, but you can just try typing in [color=some shade of color] and experiment (finishing it with [/color]). If you end up using an "already-taken" one, either we suck it up, or we ask you to switch. Simple as that.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, Mal has options now that he's healed.  He could either stick with the acid damage, or switch to fast healing 1 for anyone within 30'.  The way I see it, I either move to assist Jareth and Marko with Elms up north, or south to give those Treylor that are attacking Robert some acid retribution.  I am fine either way, but wanted to make sure that I didn't step on anyone's toes in regards to their plans.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sugar_Silk said:


> I'm getting excited to join you all, now! In particular, I have enjoyed Lora and her hang-ups with men. I wonder what she will think of Darling? Should be fun.
> 
> I noticed the characters all speak with different colored text... do I need to choose a color? or are those assigned somehow? I don't want to step on toes if you guys track this somehow.




Heh, Lora will most likely mistake her for a camp harlot. Well, we'll see how it plays out


----------



## HolyMan

What Lora thinks?? I am wondering what Vance will think ?? LOL

But will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Ok Sugar Silk I am headed to the IC to hopefully let you get in one more post before XP are handed out. Was just at the RG and a couple things.

Most important your swaps are missing for your modified bard please sblock those in very important. 

And was reviewing your background for XP and saw you kept the reference to the "Dweller on the Horizon" but have no deity listed under the one you worship. Again not nesscary but I was wondering as to the character's piousness(is that a word) is she devout, or uncaring that the gods maybe watching, or something inbetween. Just something for character development as I see backgrounds as ways to give hooks for further development. 

Ok heading over to play Fallon. 

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I added the swap info to the gallery. I'm pretty sure that's where we landed on those... you might double-check.

For her religious leanings... if we aren't using the gods from the book, then which ever god is most like 'lady luck' or 'the winds of fortune' or something like that. Maybe just more superstitious than religious... I'm fully open to some sort of religious experience though too if you have a god in mind. Anything with music, or beauty, or money, Darling is probably into.


----------



## HolyMan

There is no set list as of yet I will probably be working on that as we have a few now. So a commerce, luck god can be added with no trouble.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience: Aug 1st - Aug 15th*



		Code:
	

Fangor the Fierce       100
Gondsman                170
Dragonwriter            170
ghostcat                170
Myth and Legend          60
Scratched_back           20
Sugar Silk              100

 
Your experience in the RG will be different Sugar Silk as I added your background and posting in the RG bonus.

To everyone in BaHM I am going to be winding this fight down and letting you get back to RPing. I am headed to the IC now and will be having the gnolls enter the melee, so please "pull back" your characters to a central location to discuss plans/RP and I will move things along. Note the number of Treylor Command left if you have a moment. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Can't pm you Sugar_Silk your "box is full" LOL



> I am giving the others a chance to move the BaHM game along as I want you to join when the fighting has died down a little.
> 
> This is the nature of pbp alot of posting then waiting then more posting, then waiting.
> 
> The other game is probably dead, I have had this happen numerous times, once after the first round of combat.
> 
> There are a few other games starting up. and if you want I can help you make a Living Pathfinder character so you can RP in the Dunn Wright Inn till an adventure starts. Pathfinder is 3.5 with bonuses
> 
> HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Cleared out my box  sorry about that.

Sux about our other game... I thought the idea of starting as children was pretty creative. I would have liked to see where it went. I feel partially responsible since I inserted myself in the game so late... like I threw off the rhythm of things.

Anyway, I am very happy to be in OtW and I am really having fun. So far pbp gaming has been everything I hoped it would be. I can't wait to meet the other party members and start interacting with them!


----------



## Scratched_back

Don't worry, Sugar_silk, I'm still waiting to integrate myself into the party too. Not sure which angle I'm going to take in yet, HM has something cooking for me, but I'm not entirely sure what... 

I love roleplaying - for me combat is very much an annoyance in these games, but it's a necessary evil I guess.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I don't mind a battle here and there... whether I'll be of much use in combat or not, though, we'll have to see. It looks like it gets pretty involved. Darling might be a bit too delicate for the fray


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I am sure she can keep the enemy's attention on her, while we work on skewering them, lol.  I am just glad I survived this battle.. so far.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Must be a busy week. Nobody is posting.


----------



## HolyMan

Just got done not two minutes ago. 

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

And replied!  Hopefully I don't get put in the stockade, lol.  Martomum is hard to understand, so I am playing as such.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Sugar_Silk said:


> Must be a busy week. Nobody is posting.




Yeah, when there's not a real conversation going on, things tend to be slow. With the combat situation going on, we can feasibly post only once. Having a conversation in the middle of a pitched battle is hard. 

And you were having plenty of stuff going on, just for you. So don't complain!


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I didn't mean to sound whiny. I understand that the combat posting is more structured. I just like you guys and get excited when I see new posts! Also... I didn't have much going on today, so maybe I was checking in a bit too often.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Oh, I didn't see it as whiny, just a comment. And so I gave a little explanation. Likewise, I didn't mean it if my post came off as annoyed.

I like seeing such enthusiasm. All too often, PbP players join and promptly disappear. You haven't been around long, but you seem more dedicated and interested than the numerous folks I've seen pass through, as it were.

I understand the excitement about new posts. I similarly understand checking in more often than should be done. 

BTW, I look forward to your fully joining our dysfunctional little group. Though Jareth probably won't.


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Theroc and again welcome back.

Here is the thread that will get Aidan back on track to joining the others.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/289976-off-war-duet-aidan.html

I have it set just waiting for when you are ready to start.

HM


----------



## Theroc

Yep, I'm back again.  Thanks for having me back, HM.  Sorry for vanishing last time.

DW: Is that Musical madness game still going?

I've got some chores and may be away this evening, if I'm not I'll be posting tonight.  Just so you know, HM.


----------



## HolyMan

I am Off to Work so will be catching uo tonight, (looks like I have a willfull little girl to deal with in the IC ). But should beable to put her in her place. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> DW: Is that Musical madness game still going?




Unfortunately, no. Had to close up shop, as life just wouldn't give me any slack to run a PbP.

I hope to bring it back, in one form or another, at some point. But that is off in the future.


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> Unfortunately, no. Had to close up shop, as life just wouldn't give me any slack to run a PbP.
> 
> I hope to bring it back, in one form or another, at some point. But that is off in the future.




Ah, alright, lemme know if/when that starts up again.  Shavallah was pretty cool.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> Ah, alright, lemme know if/when that starts up again.  Shavallah was pretty cool.




If/when I bring it back, it will likely be in a different incarnation. Probably a little less scattered, higher starting level and jumping right in with the musical references. And definitely more humorous approach, like a musical. Likely (even) more influence from Brutal Legend... The idea of a Wizard playing a chord or riff to cast a spell appeals to my warped taste. 

Though Incarnum will still be in.
I've actually been thinking about trying to start an Incarnum + NPC classes only game... Just to see if an All-Incarnum party could cut it.


----------



## Theroc

Haha, okay.  All incarnum would be tough, since there isn't an actual healer then, risky.  

But yeah.  I didn't have too much musical theme to Shavallah, I figured I'd roll with what musical stuff you brought to the table.


----------



## Scratched_back

Hi guys,

I'd just like to apologise for my lack of posting for the last few days, it's been an unfortunate combination of work and family commitments hitting at the same time. I've finished my task at work now though, later today I shall lock my wife in the cupboard so she can't hassle me about anything else, then all will be well 

I'll be back posting late tonight or early tomorrow. Can't wait to jump into the roleplaying!


----------



## Theroc

Hey, HM, in case you haven't checked the IC, I posted in our 'duet'


----------



## Theroc

Oh, and HM, I wanna reserve a spot in your Wheel of Time game, whenever you start it.

>.>
<.<
WoT is one of my favorite series of books, and I was on a board dedicated to WoT RP for awhile.  Good stuff.


----------



## Theroc

HM: I can't even remember if Mart was with us or not.  I don't believe so, unless he showed up later, once I vanished.  So, I suppose as far as Aidan knows, Martomum isn't there.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> HM: I can't even remember if Mart was with us or not. I don't believe so, unless he showed up later, once I vanished. So, I suppose as far as Aidan knows, Martomum isn't there.




Excatly Martomum wasn't at Harkon the time Aidan was. You exited the forest, encountered the hydra (still getting flack about that from DW ), met up with Vance and was escorted to the villiage near Harkon, spoke to Vance and then Tira was exposed, you were introduced to Baron Vir and his Reygurian predjuces before going off to bed.

So really Aidan doesn't know much about what is going on at Harkon.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> So really Aidan doesn't know much about what is going on at Harkon.
> 
> HM




Haha, neither do I.  I haven't read anything in the main thread since I came back.  Figure I'll read it once people get Aidan up to speed.


----------



## Theroc

Hey, HM.  I forget what my exact plan was mechanically for Aidan's gradual change, but I was wondering if I could opt to trade class features for the features from the Half Dragon Template over time, getting the abilities that way rather then jumping through a bunch of hoops to meet prerequisites.

I'd run each particular swap by you, obviously, but I thought I'd check in advance, since I remember we'd discussed this a lot a while back.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> Hey, HM.  I forget what my exact plan was mechanically for Aidan's gradual change, but I was wondering if I could opt to trade class features for the features from the Half Dragon Template over time, getting the abilities that way rather then jumping through a bunch of hoops to meet prerequisites.
> 
> I'd run each particular swap by you, obviously, but I thought I'd check in advance, since I remember we'd discussed this a lot a while back.




Well Theroc, you could just look back in the old OOC thread.

HM, looking ahead a little, I cannot help noticing Jareth is rather close to level 4... 

Now normally, he would get Armored Mage (medium) at 4th. But I traded the Medium Armor Proficiency away, so AM (Med) is useless to me. Are we going to let Jareth have a bonus feat in exchange, as he is dropping a class feature, or is he going to advance normally?
Also, the same thing will happen at level 7, when he would normally gain Armored Mage (Heavy Shield).

I'd just like to check, so I know how to plan some things.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Haven't heard from ML in a while... was she on vacation or something?


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Aug 16th - Aug 31st*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                                XP[/U]
Dragonwriter                         310
ghostcat                             240
Sugar_Silk                           260
Scratched_back                        95
Gondsman                              60
Fangorn the Fierce                   170
Myth and Legend                       60
Theroc                               325


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I'd run each particular swap by you, obviously, but I thought I'd check in advance, since I remember we'd discussed this a lot a while back.




I don't know about this as Half Dragon adds a +3 lvl adjustment, we should look into the build again as you have a few lvls till you can even take your first level of Dragon Disciple (minium 6th lvl).  



Dragonwriter said:


> HM, looking ahead a little, I cannot help noticing Jareth is rather close to level 4...
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/291129-myth-legends-upadte.html




Yes very close indeed, and I saw you want to go whirlwind attack in the IC which is good I think Jareth really sat still during the battle when I thought he would be a move and use the distance/relfexes. So I'm guessing you were waiting to give it RP flavor now that he will be practicing it, very nice. You may trade out anything you wish, seems DuskBlade is but the base class and you are building something a little different, which is what I like to see.

I think lot of people will be leveling up soon and I will be bringing BaHM to a close. I posted XP and I think if we round thread this thread up, the XP and bonus XP for adventure completed will give you and FtF a level up and maybe Scratched_back and Sugar_Silk as well, time will tell.



Sugar_Silk said:


> Haven't heard from ML in a while... was she on vacation or something?




ML has posted a thread explaining her slow down in posts here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/291129-myth-legends-upadte.html

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Yes very close indeed, and I saw you want to go whirlwind attack in the IC which is good I think Jareth really sat still during the battle when I thought he would be a move and use the distance/relfexes. So I'm guessing you were waiting to give it RP flavor now that he will be practicing it, very nice. You may trade out anything you wish, seems DuskBlade is but the base class and you are building something a little different, which is what I like to see.




Yeah, he sat still because he was surrounded. If I tried to use any mobility, it would have come out with either tripping over allies, or getting surrounded by all the enemies. Assuming I’d be able to move at all… Especially since this battle was very defensive. Perhaps if he was on a flanking maneuver/attack, he could have used some mobile strikes. Something to think about for another day...

At this point, he’d actually take Spring Attack, trying to work on his mobility, trying to carry the momentum with his movement, while avoiding strikes. And that leads into Whirlwind Attack later on (probably level 6, since I don’t want to trade a use of Quick Cast at 5).

The idea with Jareth is, eventually, to be able to skirmish with small groups, rush into the horde of foes and spin the chain around to take a bunch down, or take on a leader in single combat. Spring Attack is for the first, Whirlwind is for the second and his Tumble + Channeling attack is for the third.


----------



## HolyMan

*Roll Call!!*

All right let's see who is still out there, since I think we lost a few and a couple have slowed in posting.

Without giving to much away for the next side adventure I would like those of you who think they can post about once a week(or more) to join it. It will start off combat oriented till you reach your destination and then, be heavy RP as you negotiate to save a life.

Those who just wish to post at a slow speed can still do so, you can stay at Harkon and await the return of the other group. Plenty to do, research/solve a mystery/RP with nobles/kill a hydra  and can be done on the slow side for those busy or finding RL getting to much in the way.

My main goal of this game is to beable to have characters come back after long RL absences. Your character could have spent a week in Skazul's library researching or out hunting Treylor bandits. 

But it would be unfair if I forcably broke you into groups (as was my main plan - but since Jareth didn't die ) And then find only one person is posting with regularity. Now although for RP I am starting my plan to split you up (and will adjust it, as that is my job) you need to trust your DM. 

So please tell me what you would like to do for the next couple RL months. Join in the next chapter of Off to War because you have time (RL), or need to back off a game to catch up on others or RL stuff. You need to trust me I am fine either way, I am a good adjuster. And will keep the story flowing for everyone no matter what you choose.

Either way Battle at Harkon Manor is winding down and the next step towards the war with the Treylor is about to begin.

Please join me if you like as we play out http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/292129-key-victory.html

Your DM always,

HolyMan


----------



## Theroc

I can probably post once every day or so in the forseeable future.

As for what I want Aidan to do?  Once his father's cured, he'll likely attach his goals to Lora, making sure she doesn't get in over his head.  The constant stress and exposures to magic might cause him to begin changing in the manners we discussed before, I gotta relook at some of those things.

Basically, I'd like to have Aidan's ancestry become more apparent as people realize he's heir to a more 'noble' bloodline than any had guessed... due to the changes.  He doesn't realize he's more than a simple farmboy.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> All right let's see who is still out there, since I think we lost a few and a couple have slowed in posting.




Quite obviously, I am here. And for what seems like a goodly time, I will be able to post at least daily (possibly more ).



> since Jareth didn't die




Sorry to disappoint. Not! 



> Either way Battle at Harkon Manor is winding down and the next step towards the war with the Treylor is about to begin.
> 
> Please join me if you like as we play out http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/292129-key-victory.html
> 
> Your DM always,
> 
> HolyMan




Okay, so you noted in the latest post in BaHM that we can finish introductions/conversations and such... But there's this new thread now... Which do you want us to use for now?


----------



## HolyMan

No the finish intro's was for the newbies we are still playing BaHM out.

Jareth should be standing with Martomum, Claude, Lora, and Trinham closer to the fighting (probably on the other side of the fallen wall) and "group 2" is off with the wounded.

Martomum just asked a question and I will wait for a few respondes before continuing.

EDIT: I would have had Jareth raised, but you would have missed your opp to go with Tira, so it would have been newbies only, there is still that chance (not to die lol) to see if he misses his appointment.

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I'll probably be able to do about once a day also. Twice a week for sure.


----------



## Lughart

Hi. It looks like you're about to start a new chapter, and I'd like to join.

Where do i start?


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Jareth should be standing with Martomum, Claude, Lora, and Trinham closer to the fighting (probably on the other side of the fallen wall) and "group 2" is off with the wounded.
> 
> Martomum just asked a question and I will wait for a few respondes before continuing.




Well, I wouldn't wait too long... Myth has been sporadic lately and FM hasn't posted since the battle began... 



> I would have had Jareth raised, but you would have missed your opp to go with Tira, so it would have been newbies only, there is still that chance (not to die lol) to see if he misses his appointment.
> 
> HM




He'll be doing his damnedest not to! I mean, Tharivol is his teacher, mentor and friend. If Jareth has half a chance to save the guy, he will. Nevermind the fact that Jareth kinda sees Tharivol as more of a father figure than his own father... Might help him with some of these issues.

And welcome, Lughart! Always plenty of room in this game. 

Character creation stuff is here and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask us players or HolyMan. And a quick note: there's a lot of customization that goes on with the classes, so if you want to trade something out, just ask HM.


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> Well, I wouldn't wait too long... Myth has been sporadic lately and FM hasn't posted since the battle began...




I know this was to be the tie in for Claude to join the Purple knights and avoid being... opps  almost gave it away. The slow posting of the higher level characters is one reason I don't want to force you into being stuck.




			
				Dragonwriter said:
			
		

> He'll be doing his damnedest not to! I mean, Tharivol is his teacher, mentor and friend. If Jareth has half a chance to save the guy, he will. Nevermind the fact that Jareth kinda sees Tharivol as more of a father figure than his own father... Might help him with some of these issues.




And I see you can developed your character going or not just need to figure out what it would have meant had you missed the chance. Plenty of character development there.



			
				Dragonwriter said:
			
		

> And welcome, Lughart! Always plenty of room in this game.
> 
> Character creation stuff is here and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask us players or HolyMan. And a quick note: there's a lot of customization that goes on with the classes, so if you want to trade something out, just ask HM.




That is true DW and Welcome aboard Lughart, after reading the character gene rules let me know what you have in mind for a concept.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Sugar_Silk said:


> I'll probably be able to do about once a day also. Twice a week for sure.




Good to hear.

What I think we need to work on is what your charatcer does during combat. I'm guessing alot of inspiring  but if you get tired of the cheer leader role what to do.

And I just had a thought, oh man... What will Darling think of all the handsome elves she will encounter in this adventure? Yikes. 

HM


----------



## Lughart

I'm thinking of a transmuter. Former bookkeeper for a rich mercant. Genius with numbers, but cant seem to manage his life very well. Recovering drug addict, prone to relapse. Responds badly to pressure.

I'm happy with the wizard as he is, so I won't bother that much with customization.

I'll knock something up on the RG as soon as I can.


----------



## Theroc

I wonder what Aidan will do when he discovers Lora vanished?


----------



## HolyMan

Depends.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Depends.
> 
> HM





Haha, indeed.  She was relatively important to my story explanation of Aidan's growth.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I am here, and have not posted much int he battle thread as there was not much to say/do... I am healing left and right, moving around, making sure nobody dies.  I am able to post more often than not on a daily basis.  I am almost ALWAYS on a computer.  It's my job.

I am up for the side adventure, as well as discovering more about my character as time moves on.


----------



## HolyMan

I meant it depends on if Darling is in the room or not when he finds out LOL. 

Yes FtF I have plans for your character so please join us in this and when it is over be ready to meet your evil nemesis, 

 <insert evil laugh>  (I'm not good at them.)

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I meant it depends on if Darling is in the room or not when he finds out LOL.
> 
> HM




Eh?  Not sure I follow, lol.


----------



## ghostcat

Still around and can usually manage to post once a day. Just don't forget I'm 5 hours ahead of you. Plus I tend to post mornings or afternoons.


----------



## Scratched_back

I can always post once per day until further notice. I always seem to post at different times day to the rest of you (I haven't bothered looking at peoples' profiles, but I'm assuming that's because I'm playing from the UK and the rest of you aren't) but if not exactly once per day as you see it, it will be very close.

I must admit, the heavy-combat part isn't great for me, I found that my enthusiasm waned slightly (but only slightly) when I first joined and didn't have anything particularly great to roleplay about whilst swinging my sword around... but that's just part of being a melee class I guess. It probably didn't help that my rolls on Invisible Castle were absolutely terrible and a villager had to run over and bail me out, hahah!

Looking forward to some roleplaying now in the Harkon Manor aftermath, then onwards to the next adventure! Keep up the good work, HM!


----------



## HolyMan

Glad to hear I won't need to NPC Elms he is one of the few that knows who the "Key" is. LOL

great to hear from you ghostcat I was a wondering if you slowed down or not.

Hmmm... party so far -

Jareth
Trinham
Elms
Darling
Malaroc

and possible Cedric, which reminds me.

Lughart is it ok we twik the end of your background a little to help fit you into the upcoming game. The last sentence really, instead of having a friend tell him about joining the army. If you are with the army you will be to far away to get in, for a while. I am thinking of a few ideals will run them by you soon.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Glad to hear I won't need to NPC Elms he is one of the few that knows who the "Key" is. LOL
> 
> great to hear from you ghostcat I was a wondering if you slowed down or not.
> 
> Hmmm... party so far -
> 
> Jareth
> Trinham
> Elms
> Darling
> Malaroc
> 
> and possible Cedric, which reminds me.
> 
> Lughart is it ok we twik the end of your background a little to help fit you into the upcoming game. The last sentence really, instead of having a friend tell him about joining the army. If you are with the army you will be to far away to get in, for a while. I am thinking of a few ideals will run them by you soon.
> 
> HM




And Aidan...?


----------



## HolyMan

Ah Aidan... 

I think by the time we RP you through the Duet you will hook back up with the others (and the army) after it's completion also The Key to Victory should be done) and you should be back to around the same XP as those you started Off to War with also. 

Not to give anything away, but big plans for your trip back home, and then the situation there. Oh and I have a "little" surprise that should make the game fun.

I think him rushing to his father the most important thing to him right now. A wait till you learn what mommy did, 

HM


----------



## Gondsman

I really hate to have to do this, but I'm student teaching this fall and it is just wiping me out.  I just went from checking this thread 4 times a day to not thinking about it for a whole week.  For the next couple weeks at least I'm not going to be involved, hopefully I'll find that as i get used to things i start having the time again.


----------



## Lughart

HolyMan said:


> Lughart is it ok we twik the end of your background a little to help fit you into the upcoming game. The last sentence really, instead of having a friend tell him about joining the army. If you are with the army you will be to far away to get in, for a while. I am thinking of a few ideals will run them by you soon.
> 
> HM




No problem, just tell me what you have in mind.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Bummer, Gondsman. You should really try and make it work, I was looking forward to finally joining up with everyone. I never even found out why Lurik was cursing!  Anyway, I hope you have a great batch of students and learn as much as they do!


----------



## ghostcat

Sorry to appear not to be on a go slow. RL has really been S**t recently. So, I'm tending to post reactively. As the fight slowed things down, so did I. I'll keep up. Honest.


----------



## HolyMan

Gondsman said:


> I really hate to have to do this, but I'm student teaching this fall and it is just wiping me out. I just went from checking this thread 4 times a day to not thinking about it for a whole week. For the next couple weeks at least I'm not going to be involved, hopefully I'll find that as i get used to things i start having the time again.




Hey it is really no problem Gondsman. When everyone heads back to the Manor you can go to the library and do a little research. When you are ready to start up a little posting we will just pull Lurik's nose out of a book.

Good luck teaching and all. We will be here to entertain when you find the time.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok here is my plan, 

I wish to end BaHM before the 15th so as to reward quest completed XP, but there is some "serious future game related info" (sfgri for short)I need to dish out before for that.

Here's what I need from all of you. 

Dragonwriter
Myth and Legend
ghostcat

I need you to help post through the "sfgri" in BaHM so if for the next week you could put it on your tops posting list I would appertiate it. 

Sugar_Silk
Scratched_back
Fangor the Fierce

I will post you out with a kind of "fast forward" that will put you in "The Key to Victory" (KtV) and back in the villiage for RP but it won't clutter BaHM. 

Lughart darn I wanted you across the river, but they might not cross that for two weeks or more. Will guess I change that plan, drunk and a druggie huh? and where were you will people fought for their lives and yours as well.. hmm thinking, wizard... nothing drat. But I will have something by the time I get everyone in trust me. 

So I just need a go no go.. if the second group is done in BaHM I will pen them out and move the first group forward.

Plan for tommorrow night unless I hear a couple people wish to wait.

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I'm okay with whatever. The only things I even kinda wanted to accomplish before the fast forward was to meet all the characters and maybe see if anyone fancied the leadership role while Lora was away... both of which can be done anywhere.

As far as where to put Cedric, might I suggest that we could find him off the wagon somewhere? That would explain why he missed the fight at least...  Maybe at that little outdoor tavern near the Manor that the party was at before? One idea at least


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Here's what I need from all of you.
> 
> Dragonwriter
> Myth and Legend
> ghostcat
> 
> I need you to help post through the "sfgri" in BaHM so if for the next week you could put it on your tops posting list I would appertiate it.




I tend not to have much of a posting list, honestly. If I see something my character would take part in, or have a reason to react to, then I'll post. But I also always read new posts and stay up-to-date.  
So, I will be paying attention. I'm just not in the habit of posting "filler/doing nothing/uh, something happens" kind of posts.


----------



## ghostcat

Dragonwriter said:


> I tend not to have much of a posting list, honestly. If I see something my character would take part in, or have a reason to react to, then I'll post. But I also always read new posts and stay up-to-date.
> So, I will be paying attention. I'm just not in the habit of posting "filler/doing nothing/uh, something happens" kind of posts.




<aol>Me too</aol>


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I am ready when you are.  Kinda in the same boat as Ghost and Dragonwriter, as Mal was simply waiting on some guidance, as he's been doing the same thing for the last few posts.  I can only spin it so many ways, you know?


----------



## HolyMan

Ok I have set it up in The Key to Victory, that FtF, Scracthed_back, and Sugar_Silk can do a little RP. 

And when I am done with BaHM I will have ghostcat and Dragonwriter's characters join you all.

This way the action stays focused and not split up. 

[sblock=Lughart] I have a way to spin you there at the inn and if you like it you can run with it or you can come up with something else, just need you to be at the tavern (should be NP,  ) 

I was thinking that Cedric wanted to train under Skazul, but the wizard wouldn't have him so he became something of a hermit as that was his last chance to get a teacher.

He hear's about the Treylor battle and decides that maybe by helping he can convince Skazul to teach him. But...

the night before as the wall is being constructed your character sneaks into the tavern and goes on a benign. He has just woken up and you can have him hung over exiting the tavern (there's a rain barrel nearby  ). But you can RP it anyway you like when he finds out he missed the fight. [/sblock]


----------



## Lughart

Wunderbar. I'm happy with this.


----------



## HolyMan

Then I can't wait to read your entrance post. 

HM


----------



## Scratched_back

I just got the ball rolling in the new thread, by the way. Can't wait to get into the RP now... Now that I'm not swinging a sword around and hitting nothing but air, hahah


----------



## HolyMan

Nice stats btw Scratched _back, and plz keep on rolling with the RP everyone as I close out BaHM. 

I will do what I can to help along. Maybe a game of knifes??

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Update - I am out of town on emergency.  Brother in law has 3rd degree burns, 33% of body, including face, neck, chest and both arms.  Not sure on things now, but for now, I will only post when I can manage to get some free time between visits and surgeries.  Thought I would warn you upfront.


----------



## Scratched_back

, that's bad news Fangor! Sorry to hear it.


----------



## Theroc

Fangor, best wishes for your brother.  I hope he recovers swiftly and completely.


----------



## HolyMan

Really sorry to hear FtF, I will put you and your family on my churches prayer list.

Good luck and best wishes to you and your family.

HM


----------



## ethandrew

So, off to war, eh? I figured I'd peek my head in here and see what this is all about. Sandbox, right?


----------



## Dragonwriter

My best wishes to you and your brother-in-law, Fangor. Here's hoping for good news! We'll be here when you can come back.

As for the new face coming around... Hiya ethandrew! I wouldn't say this is sandbox (since we are in a semi-specific series of events), but it is highly character-focused with lots of room for varied character choice and growth. HM is really focused on the players/characters and making things work... Even when some of us can be rather skeptical.


----------



## HolyMan

ethandrew said:


> So, off to war, eh? I figured I'd peek my head in here and see what this is all about. Sandbox, right?




Sandbox-ish with plenty of shovels.  



Dragonwriter said:


> but it is highly character-focused with lots of room for varied character choice and growth. HM is really focused on the players/characters and making things work




Which is what RPGing should be all about.



			
				Dragonwriter said:
			
		

> ... Even when some of us can be rather skeptical.




What?!  Say it ain't so! 

HM


----------



## Theroc

Ethan, it's a homebrew world where you can make just about any character you want and tweak them to suit, mostly.

HM: Did Aidan ever get his poison healed?


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Thank you everyone for the sentiments.  The next few months will be touch and go with all the surgeries needed, so I will be in and out for a while.  I should not hold things up, as I can only get to visit him 4 time during the day for 30 minutes each.  The rest is the waiting to see how things go...


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> HM: Did Aidan ever get his poison healed?




I'm not sure as to how many days he needed to rest to get back I do remeber it wasn't many so we will just say it is an unexspected side effect of Dellex's spell that you are at full HP and stats.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I'm not sure as to how many days he needed to rest to get back I do remeber it wasn't many so we will just say it is an unexspected side effect of Dellex's spell that you are at full HP and stats.
> 
> HM




Haha, teleported the body but left the poison back at the manor.


----------



## Dragonwriter

I'm out of town this weekend. No computers, no posting. I'll be back Monday.


----------



## HolyMan

Deja vu'

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Well I was just at the RG (Sugar_Silk knows why), and I think to not slow us down to much I would guve you all a heads up. The following characters WILL BE leveling up come the 15th's midnight XP posting

Malaroc and...
Jareth

So if you could be working on your builds that would be great and don't forget Malaroc you need to make a lvl up post to help keep track.

I think if things keep the way they are in The Key to Victory both Elms and Darling are looking at level ups come the end of the month, so something to keep in mind.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> The following characters WILL BE leveling up come the 15th's midnight XP posting
> 
> Malaroc and...
> Jareth
> 
> So if you could be working on your builds that would be great and don't forget Malaroc you need to make a lvl up post to help keep track.




Oh, I'm always looking ahead with my character design.  Really the only thing I can't set up beforehand is the HP roll. Everything else is really adding a little text.

And obviously, I'm back!


----------



## Theroc

Holyman said:
			
		

> Also about your build what about Monk(HB)4/Duskblade 1/Dragon Disciple  10?? The duskblade would really build into what I have in store for the  campagin, and give you some extra spells with attunement and I see Aidan  using spells like Stand without even knowing he's casting a spell.




I think that I'd need to re-key the Duskblade's spellcasting progression, or I'd um... not be casting many spells.  Would you okay Aidan's casting being keyed to Charisma?  Otherwise I doubt it would be very effective at all, unless we found artificial methods of jacking Aidan's intelligence up.

Also:  Unless we find a method to allow Aidan to wear armor without losing his Monk-based abilities, I'd need to swap something out for those as well.  I can do that with your system already though.  The re-keying for the spellcasting and Attunement are the most important things that I see causing an issue with Aidan matching the class.

That aside, I could definitely see it working(wouldn't work the abjurant Champion bit I had in mind originally, but that's a side idea anyhow, and now I have access to the PHB2, so Duskblade is a possibility.)

In fact, I think it'd be rather hilarious to see Jareth's reaction when he starts manifesting nearly identical abilities with a similar weapon the next time they meet.  I can imagine he'd either be angry, confused, or both.  

Btw, Monk 4/Duskblade 1/DD 10 takes me to level 15.  Were you planning to stop the campaign there, or was that just a basic build concept?


----------



## ghostcat

--->Theroc: have you seen this feat Armored Monk


----------



## Theroc

ghostcat said:


> --->Theroc: have you seen this feat Armored Monk




Hm... halved bonuses for light armor.  That might be worth it if Aidan finds some really nice light armor(or medium mithril which is technically light, lol)

Doubt it would be of too much use outside of that.  Well, maybe.  Chain shirt is +4, and my cha bonus would be 2, so I'd have +5 instead of +2.  

What book is that feat from?


----------



## ghostcat

--->HM: I have updated my Character Sheet with the extended skill list we used for CotSQ. Hope you find it useful.


--->Theroc. I found it on the web. I think its a Fan-Created feat.


----------



## Scratched_back

Hi guys, sorry for my silence the last couple of days. Got called out of town to entertain clients unexpectedly.

I actually do mean entertain, too... not like Darling would 'entertain' them...  

Going to skim the KtV thread and post this evening.


----------



## Theroc

You don't sing them inspiring songs that buff them up?

 

Or does Darling inspire in a different way?


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, now that the dice roller is up and attached to posts, shall I just use that when Jareth levels? It seems simpler than linking to IC, as well as being handier.


----------



## HolyMan

Is it up? I haven't seen it.

When it does become avaiable we well start to use it. But I thought they were still testing it.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

I think they are still testing it (like an open beta, now), but as you can see, it is up. 

I'd like to test and see if it hates me as much as IC... 

EDIT: I just don't know if we can roll multiple times on one post...

And as to the thing about Aidan's advancement, might I suggest just going Sorcerer? The spiked chain thing, Jareth could deal with (though he might be a little annoyed). But suddenly manifesting Duskblade-like abilities, no training at all? Sorcerer tends to be far easier to say "latent power" and it is already CHA-based. You'd still get into Dragon Disciple, just less BAB. Because if you start going Duskblade, without training, and start learning to channel, Jareth will have a HUGE problem with that.


----------



## HolyMan

Oh I wasn't planning in him not having a teacher. In fact I was thinking he would have the same teacher as Jareth had. Once Tharivol sees him swinging his father's old _mojaer-tal _he would problably start training him.

Seeing as how Jareth has learned so much and doesn't need an instructor anymore. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

Sounds fine to me.  I'm guessing you said Monk 4 because Aidan will be reaching level 4 before he meets Tharivol?  lol

As far as the stuff, Dragonwriter: I had originally considered Sorcerer but was worried about my BAB since I already had meh BAB from Monk, reducing it further would make Aidan less useful in a fight.  HM suggested Duskblade.

If Aidan has a teacher, that'd be fine, and the Dragon Disciple levels can be Aidan's latent talent manifesting or something of the like.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> As far as the stuff, Dragonwriter: I had originally considered Sorcerer but was worried about my BAB since I already had meh BAB from Monk, reducing it further would make Aidan less useful in a fight.  HM suggested Duskblade.




I was just voicing my take on it. I tend to be somewhat vocal. 
Honestly, if you're worried about BAB now, I would recommend against taking DD. Yeah, the ability boosts are nice, but spread over 10 levels, with medium BAB progression is not a good trade.
Remembering a little of Aidan's style (since he hasn't been around Jareth for a while), he had something of a protective personality. You could consider a couple levels of Paladin (CHA to saves is nice, high BAB) and going for the Knight Protector PrC from Complete Warrior. Not optimized, but neither is DD.  You could also swap levels of Knight for Paladin, though the Challenge DCs will be a bit low.



			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> Once Tharivol sees him swinging his father's old mojaer-tal he would problably start training him.



As in, Aidan's father has an old spiked chain? A middle-aged/elderly farmer used to wield a spiked chain? HM, that kinda strains my suspension of disbelief.
I mean, you say you are trying to run a low-magic world, but this old farmer will have an heirloom spiked chain. And Fallon is suddenly revealed to be a (minimally) 9th-level spellcaster...? Seriously, if you're going to do stuff like this, could you toss us some magic gear and bring us up to wealth-by-level? (And I mean magic gear we can/will use. The Cloak of Elvenkind you gave Jareth is great for sentimental value, but practically useless to him mechanically.)

EDIT: And it seems we can have multiple rolls on one post, but it will make the post huge. Shall we use that for the HP increase, or keep using IC?


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> I was just voicing my take on it. I tend to be somewhat vocal.
> Honestly, if you're worried about BAB now, I would recommend against taking DD. Yeah, the ability boosts are nice, but spread over 10 levels, with medium BAB progression is not a good trade.
> Remembering a little of Aidan's style (since he hasn't been around Jareth for a while), he had something of a protective personality. You could consider a couple levels of Paladin (CHA to saves is nice, high BAB) and going for the Knight Protector PrC from Complete Warrior. Not optimized, but neither is DD.  You could also swap levels of Knight for Paladin, though the Challenge DCs will be a bit low.




My plan has been to become Draconic with Aidan for awhile.  Paladin wouldn't help too much with that.  He's protective of Lora, outside that he'd much rather be a flashy combatant... since he's a circle fighter.



			
				DW said:
			
		

> As in, Aidan's father has an old spiked chain? A middle-aged/elderly farmer used to wield a spiked chain? HM, that kinda strains my suspension of disbelief.



I believe he meant Tharivol's father.  If he meant Aidan's father, I'd like to know why Tharivol would care and how it managed to get into the Irregulars camp.  


			
				DW said:
			
		

> And Fallon is suddenly revealed to be a (minimally) 9th-level spellcaster...?



?  Did I miss something?  When did Fallon cast a spell?  Or were you talking about Dellex?


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> My plan has been to become Draconic with Aidan for awhile.  Paladin wouldn't help too much with that.  He's protective of Lora, outside that he'd much rather be a flashy combatant... since he's a circle fighter.




If you say so... Still, nothing quite like a flash of divine light, guiding his strikes. 
And Knight could be good for that circle fighting stuff, with the CHA synergy, too.



> I believe he meant Tharivol's father.  If he meant Aidan's father, I'd like to know why Tharivol would care and how it managed to get into the Irregulars camp.




Hard to tell... Too many "he"s and "him"s in that sentence, HM! 
I believe the training and seeing Aidan wield the chain would be after he is freed and presumably joins in with the army.



> ?  Did I miss something?  When did Fallon cast a spell?  Or were you talking about Dellex?




Technically, the only one who saw it was Darling/Sugar Silk. But the fact remains he used a prayer to summon a Celestial Griffon (Summon Monster 5, so CL 9 at least). The post in question is here. It was in the old, main IC thread.


----------



## Theroc

Well, to be honest, I've a major like of dragons and becoming more like one and showing magic affinity seems really cool to me.  Paladins are cool, but don't really fit the image I have in his head.  Spontaneous divine influence doesn't seem as... innate as arcane.

By that I mean, Divine is someone acting through him, which makes his ancestry unimportant as an origin.

Knight is a cool class, but except the cha thing I don't think much really fits him.  He's about dancing about the battlefield.

I found it very interesting when you first joined, because it appeared to me we both had a similar concept as far as combat goes...mix magic and melee and trip up the opposition.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

So, I assume I will get enough Xp for a new level!  Good, as that would be my b-day present!  Happy Birthday to ME!!!
3ea4e329-482d-4386-946a-0c92c9406855
1.03.01


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> EDIT: And it seems we can have multiple rolls on one post, but it will make the post huge. Shall we use that for the HP increase, or keep using IC?




Please use IC for everything till we see what Morrus does with the dice roller. Hopefully they can make is smaller or auto hide it.



Theroc said:


> I believe he meant Tharivol's father. If he meant Aidan's father, I'd like to know why Tharivol would care and how it managed to get into the Irregulars camp.
> 
> ? Did I miss something? When did Fallon cast a spell? Or were you talking about Dellex?




That is a story and you just need to remember that Fallon, Dellex, Bear and Martomum were a group while you all were young whipper snappers. So if Dellex is a high lvl wizard teleporting people miles away out of their beds then Fallon needs to have a litle power also. He doesn't have as much though do to an encounter with some wights.



Dragonwriter said:


> Hard to tell... Too many "he"s and "him"s in that sentence, HM!
> I believe the training and seeing Aidan wield the chain would be after he is freed and presumably joins in with the army.




Only 2 hims, 1 he, and 1 his that doesn't seem like much to me.



Theroc said:


> I found it very interesting when you first joined, because it appeared to me we both had a similar concept as far as combat goes...mix magic and melee and trip up the opposition.




I just wonder at all you wasting rolls on trip attempts?? How many times have you successfully tripped but then missed with the attack?? 

OK alot to do XP and updating the duet and KtV.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Sept. 1st - Sept 15th*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                     XP[/U]
Sugar_Silk                290
Dragonwriter              955
Fangor the Fierce         535
ghostcat                1,020
Lughart                   305
Scratched_back            325
Theroc                    585

 
*Congrats FtF and DW for Leveling UP!!*

And it won't take but one or two RP posts for Elms and Darling to reach lvl 2. So you should be thinking about that for the end of the month.

*NOTE:* Lughart your XP includes 70pts for background and 5 pts for posting in the RG. Which I haven't done the *red ink* for Cedric yet but I have seen few crunch mistakes but there are some things I want to address so be on the look out this weekend.

Ok I am off to update, then off to bed. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> That is a story and you just need to remember that Fallon, Dellex, Bear and Martomum were a group while you all were young whipper snappers. So if Dellex is a high lvl wizard teleporting people miles away out of their beds then Fallon needs to have a litle power also. He doesn't have as much though do to an encounter with some wights.




I think of Fallon as Gandalf.  He doesn't look like much until he busts out the 'epic' spells and is all "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"  And beats down a Balrog...  Comes out all Shiny and pwns armies.







			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> I just wonder at all you wasting rolls on trip attempts?? How many times have you successfully tripped but then missed with the attack??
> 
> OK alot to do XP and updating the duet and KtV.
> 
> HM




I have crappy luck.  If I didn't do trip attempts, I'd simply hit and do 1 damage instead, since the crappy roll follows the good one.    Not much difference either way.  I figure eventually it will pay off.  If it doesn't... Aidan may refocus his training elsewhere(Disarming armed combatants... etc...)


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Only 2 hims, 1 he, and 1 his that doesn't seem like much to me.




It is when there is no one ID'd as the him/he/his. And I see what you did there! Make a statement and avoid addressing the original issue! 



HolyMan said:


> And it won't take but one or two RP posts for Elms and Darling to reach lvl 2. So you should be thinking about that for the end of the month.




Is it just me, or have you become more generous with doling out XP? 

Also, Jareth is updated to level 4. Here's the sblock'd changes:
[sblock=Jareth Level 4 Changes]
Jareth Level-up

Attribute Increase: +1 to STR.
HP (d8+2): +4
BAB increases to +4 (increasing AC by 1, due to HR).
Fort and Will saves increase to +4.
Gain one more 0-level spell per day (total 6/day) and one more 1st-level spell per day (total 6/day). Learn new 1st-level spell (Ray of Enfeeblement).
Gain Armored Mage (Medium) class feature, trade for Spring Attack as bonus feat.
Gain 8 skill points (2 base +2 house rule +3 INT +1 human): Climb +2 (total 7), Concentration +1 (total 9), Knowledge (arcane) +1 (total 10), Ride +1 (total 7), Sense Motive +1 (total 7), Spellcraft +1 (total 14), Tumble +1 (total 10)
[/sblock]

Blasted IC.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Ungh. I am visiting a friend and i tried to post the other day, but I guess it didn't take? I need to get in the habit of saving all my posts in a text file. Just in case... I'm happy to see the sudden burst of activity though!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Level up for Mal:
Level 2:
+1 BAB
+1 to both Fort and Wil saves
Skill Focus BLUFF
+4 Skill Points (+2 Class, +2 House Rule, -1 INT, +1 Human) (+1 Bluff, +1 Craft, +1 Hide, +1 Hide)
1d10+2 HP = 4 HP (1d10+2=4)
Feats: 
**Trade out Proficiency with Shield and Medium Armor for 2 Feats at Second Level (Weapon Finesse and Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Due to BAB +1 Prerequisite)


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> Is it just me, or have you become more generous with doling out XP?




No, never!!  We just have great posters, LOL. But seriously more than half, (way more actually) was bonus for completeing the adventure.



Dragonwriter said:


> Also, Jareth is updated to level 4. Here's the sblock'd changes:
> [sblock=Jareth Level 4 Changes]
> Jareth Level-up
> 
> Attribute Increase: +1 to STR.
> HP (d8+2): +4
> BAB increases to +4 (increasing AC by 1, due to HR).
> Fort and Will saves increase to +4.
> Gain one more 0-level spell per day (total 6/day) and one more 1st-level spell per day (total 6/day). Learn new 1st-level spell (Ray of Enfeeblement).
> Gain Armored Mage (Medium) class feature, trade for Spring Attack as bonus feat.
> Gain 8 skill points (2 base +2 house rule +3 INT +1 human): Climb +2 (total 7), Concentration +1 (total 9), Knowledge (arcane) +1 (total 10), Ride +1 (total 7), Sense Motive +1 (total 7), Spellcraft +1 (total 14), Tumble +1 (total 10)
> [/sblock]
> 
> Blasted IC.




Lvl up approved you will be camping before the "meat" of the adventure begins (remember Jareth is suppose to meet Tira in the morning across the river). And I saw you started an IC "lvl up" post. Maybe a little early morning exercise will help finish it.



Sugar_Silk said:


> Ungh. I am visiting a friend and i tried to post the other day, but I guess it didn't take? I need to get in the habit of saving all my posts in a text file. Just in case... I'm happy to see the sudden burst of activity though!




I learned the hard way myself I get a great post together than "poof" it doesn't take and I didn't save it.  The sudden burst is my fault I have noticed I hold off close to XP so I can count up and not have to go through and recount, and then post something big when I'm done.



Fangor the Fierce said:


> Level up for Mal:
> Level 2:
> +1 BAB
> +1 to both Fort and Wil saves
> Skill Focus BLUFF
> +4 Skill Points (+2 Class, +2 House Rule, -1 INT, +1 Human) (+1 Bluff, +1 Craft, +1 Hide, +1 Hide)
> 1d10+2 HP = 4 HP (1d10+2=4)
> Feats:
> **Trade out Proficiency with Shield and Medium Armor for 2 Feats at Second Level (Weapon Finesse and Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Due to BAB +1 Prerequisite)




LVL up approved, and sorry IC screwed you also.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hello there  I'm back! I read up on the end of The Battle, it appears Lora is now a damsel in distress? Where do i continue reading and post?


----------



## Scratched_back

Welcome back, Myth! Can't wait for you to re-join!

HM, this mind-link business, can everybody hear everything or do we target who we communicate with?

Just curious


----------



## HolyMan

WB ML 

Give me a little time to think up what to do with Lora but as of now she is being held in her room at the Manor. You can post in K2V (thanks Sugar_Silk like that abbrev. alot better) just sblock all your posts to keep them seperate from everyone else, thanks.

And everyone can hear everyone elses speaking thoughts, kind of like sitting around the table talking.

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I don't know if you found it yet but the story moved over to this thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/292129-key-victory.html

I'm sure you are plenty savvy and would have easily found it on your own, but now you don't have to hunt! 

Glad you are back and can't wait to play with you finally!


----------



## HolyMan

Working on a story offline so I can copy/paste it to K2V be ready for an update WED latest but I am shooting for tomorrow.

A few things to keep on track.

Elms believes Tharivol lives somewhere around Harkon Manor. 

It is about 7 or 8 hours after the big battle, say around 4ish?

Vance and everyone but Jareth and Trinham went to the manor house over the bridge.

Equipment (of captured PCs) I am not sure of yet, let me think on it.

Great read so far everyone, thanks.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

I am on draft number three.  Mal is waiting for what "Emma" knows" I wish I knew LOL.

But am going to post something big tonight I just have twist and turns I wish to make and it is a little hard. Running a module is easy only needs a little tweaking and motives are supplied.

WAY OCC: Speaking of which FtF go ahead and edit in a ready action for Aaron in WotBS, please.

But this is different I hadn't even thought of having dragons in this game and now I'm leaning towards a little "chess type" games between them. To put in somewhere. Guess who the pawns are.  LOL

I have to bring info out in her point of view and what she knows. My problem - What does she know? Is it even true or speculation? What does it mean if she is right?

Sorry taking so long but big update tonight and if I post something I really didn't want to I will just roll with it. Part of the job.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

No worries HM.  Sorry the Copper Dragon threw a big wrench into your plans.  Troublesome, that's her name, lol!  Not sure how much she would know, but I figure they could learn a lot, even from spies, allies, etc.  Or, she could be the whole catalyst to this war, inadvertently starting it by some mundane action from her perspective.  Either way, I will roll with whatever you come up with.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I really liked the idea when I read about the dragon! I got excited! I knew Malaroc had some connection to a dragon but I didn't expect it would play much of a role in the game aside from an occasional vision or something. So far, most of our contacts seemed a little impatient and unaware of details. A wise, patient dragon may be just what the doctor ordered to counter Mart's mumbling and charging around!


----------



## Theroc

I'd planned for Aidan to have Draconic ancestry for quite sometime.  How did the concept of dragons in the game only come up when someone played a Dragon Shaman?  >.>  ~points at his magic class-> Dragon Disciple progression plan~


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> I'd planned for Aidan to have Draconic ancestry for quite sometime.  How did the concept of dragons in the game only come up when someone played a Dragon Shaman?  >.>  ~points at his magic class-> Dragon Disciple progression plan~




Draconic ancestry and directly-involved dragons are two rather different things.


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> Draconic ancestry and directly-involved dragons are two rather different things.



Worshipping something doesn't make it directly involved.  But maybe I just am not seeing the full picture to know the difference.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Are the other prisoners out of Emma's range of influence? They don't seem to be sharing our mental link.  Lora! Maybe your rat can chew through your ropes? I forget if she is with you or not, but I saw you were thinking of escape plans!


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I'd planned for Aidan to have Draconic ancestry for quite sometime. How did the concept of dragons in the game only come up when someone played a Dragon Shaman? >.> ~points at his magic class-> Dragon Disciple progression plan~




I was hoping that even with your transformation to something "dragon-like". (Ancestry implies in the background known but unseen.) I wouldn't have to put actually dragons in the game. And I tweaked the fluff on Dragon Shamans to say they are trained by dragons thats what all the "kalamti" stuff is about. Kalamti is draconic for apprentice.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I was hoping that even with your transformation to something "dragon-like". (Ancestry implies in the background known but unseen.) I wouldn't have to put actually dragons in the game. And I tweaked the fluff on Dragon Shamans to say they are trained by dragons thats what all the "kalamti" stuff is about. Kalamti is draconic for apprentice.
> 
> HM




Ah.  I sorta figured becoming a half-dragon was pretty darn close to bringing a dragon into the game.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sugar_Silk said:


> Are the other prisoners out of Emma's range of influence? They don't seem to be sharing our mental link.  Lora! Maybe your rat can chew through your ropes? I forget if she is with you or not, but I saw you were thinking of escape plans!



Aye Ginger should be in Lora's pocket. But I'm seeing that HM got an even better idea 

I really start viewing Lora as one of my characters (as a writer) and not just as a DnD tool for me to play at flinging fireballs at goblins. When i wrote that passage i actually caught myself grinding my teeth, i had gotten so deep in character


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks ML I only got the ideal after reading your great post. 

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

So... HM, I notice you always append an "L" to the end of 'idea'. It doesn't really bother me or anything, but now it almost seems like you 're daring us to say something about it, so I guess I took the bait.  I'm sure it's just a little quirk, but I had a crazy thought that maybe you had some secret prize and you were just waiting for somebody to point it out and I might inherit a vast fortune, or a haunted castle or something! So... did I win?


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

If people won items for his spelling mistakes, then we would all be billionaires...   Right HM?


----------



## Dragonwriter

Fangor the Fierce said:


> If people won items for his spelling mistakes, then we would all be billionaires...   Right HM?




Or 20th level. 

I think the real rewards should be for keeping our inner Grammar Nazis locked up! 
(I know mine is chained with 3-inch thick links.  )


----------



## HolyMan

True that I would have so much molla for misspells that I would pay EnWorld to let me have all the forums I want. 

You weren;t here about a year ago when I first started back at EnWorld Sugar_Silk, then I only typed with two fingers, and they being big I would hit wrong keys all the time. And I never proof read anything because I wanted to get it posted. Also I type pretty much how I talk which is to say very slangish, my ex-wife is from Hungary and when we first met she asked me want language I was speaking. LOL

Now I type with three fingers and a thumb and take to reading before I hit submit but, soory no prize but thanks for playing.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> I think the real rewards should be for keeping our inner Grammar Nazis locked up!
> (I know mine is chained with 3-inch thick links.  )




And I thank you for it.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks for putting me on the spot ML -- 

I will be thinking of an Arthur answer this weekend... or will I... hmmm 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

[MENTION=83115]Theroc[/MENTION]  need to know if you want to go Duskblade for sure. As I have had a breakthrough in how to give you a little training in that class during your duet.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HM said:
			
		

> @Theroc   need to know if you want to go Duskblade for sure. As I have had a  breakthrough in how to give you a little training in that class during  your duet.
> 
> HM




Been waiting on your DM weigh in on my reply to your initial mention.  Here it is below.



Theroc said:


> I think that I'd need to re-key the Duskblade's spellcasting progression, or I'd um... not be casting many spells.  Would you okay Aidan's casting being keyed to Charisma?  Otherwise I doubt it would be very effective at all, unless we found artificial methods of jacking Aidan's intelligence up.
> 
> Also:  Unless we find a method to allow Aidan to wear armor without losing his Monk-based abilities, I'd need to swap something out for those as well.  I can do that with your system already though.  The re-keying for the spellcasting and Attunement are the most important things that I see causing an issue with Aidan matching the class.
> 
> That aside, I could definitely see it working(wouldn't work the abjurant Champion bit I had in mind originally, but that's a side idea anyhow, and now I have access to the PHB2, so Duskblade is a possibility.)
> 
> In fact, I think it'd be rather hilarious to see Jareth's reaction when he starts manifesting nearly identical abilities with a similar weapon the next time they meet.  I can imagine he'd either be angry, confused, or both.
> 
> Btw, Monk 4/Duskblade 1/DD 10 takes me to level 15.  Were you planning to stop the campaign there, or was that just a basic build concept?




Note: With the feat that someone mentioned earlier (I think Ghostcat?), the armor isn't an issue much either, if you approve of that homebrew feat... then it'd only be the int key that is an issue.


----------



## HolyMan

Why is INT a key issue you will only be taking one lvl right? That is why I thought of having you "find" a teacher and then he would leave. Aidan does have an INT of at least 11 right?

And I ok'ed that feat for one of ghostcat's characters in another game of mine it is ok to take.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Why is INT a key issue you will only be taking one lvl right? That is why I thought of having you "find" a teacher and then he would leave. Aidan does have an INT of at least 11 right?
> 
> And I ok'ed that feat for one of ghostcat's characters in another game of mine it is ok to take.
> 
> HM




Well, the spellcasting would be nigh useless unless I picked spells that did not allow saves... and the Dragon Disciple adding to that wouldn't do much either, since it would add onto the Duskblade levels.

As for just a single level, I suppose I could take just one, but then I'll have 5 levels later to play with, and dunno what to do with them.  

Maybe I'm just not understanding how it would work.


----------



## HolyMan

LOL you have to tell me how you wish for it to work. And I wil try and keep it as balanced for this game as possible. 

You would need to be a Monk5/Duskblade1 or you could be a Monk 4/Duskblade2 but regaredless is the plan (your plan) to take Dragon Disciple1 at character lvl 6 and then go all ten lvls straight from there?

That would be the transformation stages you were talking about a long time ago and give for some great RP I believe. But back to spells either way you go DB1 or DB2 you will only be casting up to first lvl spells and have only about 3 to choose from. And those three (maybe only two) - are you really wanting spells that you cast at someone else and not boosters? 

Again what is it you want to do for advancement. If you are going to take ten lvls of Dragon Disicple straight I think by the time you get back to taking lvls in a spell casting class Aidan might be a little smarter than he is now. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

Well, I'm not entirely certain at the moment.  I'm not sure if what I'd like is realistic, or if I ended up gimping myself with the Monk class(I've been hearing they are pretty low on the scale.), but I'd like to have a relatively useful spellset, without becoming useless in melee.  I'm not sure 5 level 1 spells will be useful by level 20 or not.  I haven't played that high to know.

If we're still going with the Dragon Disciple variant you gave me, Aidan would gain 1 bonus intelligence at the eighth DD level.  (I believe you halved the ability bonuses in exchange for the bonus spells increasing spellcasting progression as a full caster class).  That wouldn't really add too much to my ability to cast the spells, which is why I said having it keyed on intelligence would effectively make Aidan a non-caster.

(As a note, these issues were one reason I had mentioned seeing about just slowly paying the LA for Half-Dragon over time, before I realized that would take away the ability to fly[As Aidan would need to be large to gain usable wings by RAW])

Basically, I want to make sure Aidan becomes MORE useful, not less over the growth of the game.  >.>  So far I don't think Aidan really did anything useful besides see the hydra before anyone else.  A Gish would be nice, but it isn't strictly a necessity.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Monk is bad, out of the Core classes he is right at the bottom with Fighter. Losing caster levels for Monk levels is quite bad, especially since every feature you can point out for Monk i can show you a spell that does better (except Wis to AC but i can get higher AC as Wizard 20 for example)

Some of the good Arcane spellcasting classes:

Incantatrix - broken good
Dweomerkeeper - broken good
Initiative of Sevenfold Veil - borderline broken good
Hathran (Witch of Rashemen) - good (but female only)
Abjurant Champion - no drawbacks, good if you want BAB. Make sure you take Greater Luminous Armour as the Mage Armor line is not Abjuration.
There are others. Read up here.

And that, of course, is strictly power-wise. But with so many melee characters, and HM keeping it very low on character wealth, even with 8th level spells you will still outshine everyone. Naturally though, getting to CLVL20 will take around 10 years real world time for PbP...


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Monk is bad, out of the Core classes he is right at the bottom with Fighter. Losing caster levels for Monk levels is quite bad, especially since every feature you can point out for Monk i can show you a spell that does better (except Wis to AC but i can get higher AC as Wizard 20 for example)
> 
> Some of the good Arcane spellcasting classes:
> 
> Incantatrix - broken good
> Dweomerkeeper - broken good
> Initiative of Sevenfold Veil - borderline broken good
> Hathran (Witch of Rashemen) - good (but female only)
> Abjurant Champion - no drawbacks, good if you want BAB. Make sure you take Greater Luminous Armour as the Mage Armor line is not Abjuration.
> There are others. Read up here.
> 
> And that, of course, is strictly power-wise. But with so many melee characters, and HM keeping it very low on character wealth, even with 8th level spells you will still outshine everyone. Naturally though, getting to CLVL20 will take around 10 years real world time for PbP...




Would a Duskblade even be able to qualify/do well as an Abjurant champion?  Also:  I suppose my Spell stat won't matter as much if I don't use spells that allow saves, right?

I don't necessarily need to be able to blow up the battlefield, but I have been feeling somewhat discouraged by my poor performance.  I can't tell if it's something I'm doing wrong tactically, just bad luck, or that Aidan's already suffering for being a 'monk'.

That's why I was somewhat confused by opting for a casting class that uses Aidan's middle stat... 13 int would generally be considered abominable for an intelligence based caster...  

Haha, oh the issues of trying to build a (somewhat)unconventional gish!


----------



## HolyMan

As I look over the current party and think on what's missing I think a tank type would help. With everyone playing a caster of some sort and thiose that can have armor swapping it out. The need for a high AC/HP character will be needed around lvls 8-10.

Aidan with his adding widom and dex to AC along with the DB houserule on top of the DD's natural armor bonus puts him in the running to be that type of character. And his STR will raise pretty high so Aidan might be the canidate for that postion. 

I had forgot about you wanting to be a caster and opting for lower stats for more spells but maybe you should skip that and take the normal pluses to abilities and the natural armor along with the low spells. Character wise you maybe the only front line guy in the group.

And again a mention of low wealth, LOL I didn't see a complaint when Adian and Lora faced a 5th LVL fighter (Lora's suitor) and he didn't have the "normal" gear for a charater of his lvl. LOL 

I do have a plan do you wish me to tell you now or save the surprise?

HM


----------



## Theroc

Haha, I'm still torn.  I am not sure Aidan would make a good tank, really.  His HP isn't very high at the moment, and even if I skyrocketed his AC, he wouldn't provide much of a threat.

I also don't know if I want to ruin the surprise.  I'm just kinda stuck with how I want to proceed with him.  Aidan's cha and dex to AC is nice, the problem of course is the fact that he won't be able to be sticky, and if he DOES get hit, he WON'T have big HP.  (I don't roll high HP[often], so a D12 from DD won't guarantee high HP)

I'm not sure if Aidan is the tank you're looking for.  I have a couple ideas of 'rebuilding' Aidan with a similar flavor but changing out of Monk for a similar class of flavor which is a bit stronger... but it's not core.  It's the 'Swordsage' from the Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.  I normally wouldn't mention it, but it can be flavored very much like a monk(complete with 'Kung Fu' style stuff and outright 'magical' type things later on), and I could even adapt the DD to still fit with it if you'd allow it.

Um... I can try to explain some of the stuff if you want, though DW or M&L might be better at explaining it.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> Haha, I'm still torn.  I am not sure Aidan would make a good tank, really.  His HP isn't very high at the moment, and even if I skyrocketed his AC, he wouldn't provide much of a threat.




Yeah, and Duskblade won't add much to that. And honestly, I don't think we particularly need a tank. It tends to be a somewhat disposable role. And if Mal gets some good armor, he can easily tank (I know because I've got a DS in another game).



> I'm not sure if Aidan is the tank you're looking for.  I have a couple ideas of 'rebuilding' Aidan with a similar flavor but changing out of Monk for a similar class of flavor which is a bit stronger... but it's not core.  It's the 'Swordsage' from the Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.  I normally wouldn't mention it, but it can be flavored very much like a monk(complete with 'Kung Fu' style stuff and outright 'magical' type things later on), and I could even adapt the DD to still fit with it if you'd allow it.
> 
> Um... I can try to explain some of the stuff if you want, though DW or M&L might be better at explaining it.




In all honesty, I'd have to recommend against bringing in Tome of Battle. This game is (attempting to be) low power level and ToB is high-power, somewhat over-the-top. And without the book itself to reference what is being used and how, it can/will be a pain for the DM, even with assistance from those who have the book.


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> Yeah, and Duskblade won't add much to that. And honestly, I don't think we particularly need a tank. It tends to be a somewhat disposable role. And if Mal gets some good armor, he can easily tank (I know because I've got a DS in another game).




Haha, I wouldn't mind doing it, if I could find a way to be competent at it... but since that wasn't how I was originally building Aidan from the beginning, it sortof won't work well.




			
				Dragonwriter said:
			
		

> In all honesty, I'd have to recommend against bringing in Tome of Battle. This game is (attempting to be) low power level and ToB is high-power, somewhat over-the-top. And without the book itself to reference what is being used and how, it can/will be a pain for the DM, even with assistance from those who have the book.




~shrug~  Was an idea, since I can't think of another way to keep Aidan's flavor and become more 'tankworthy'.  Though, I don't think the Swordsage would do it much either.  I was hesitant to even mention it, but as I mentioned, I'm feeling kindof stuck atm and I'm frustrated, lol.


----------



## HolyMan

It's truly ok no need to have it thought out yet. I was going to have your tutor be inside the tavern Aidan is about to enter but I can put him somewhere else if you chose Duskblade. 

Hold on... checking a few things.

I would allow you to swap out Ki strike for a limited spell progression say like that of a bards and also limited known spells. Which would simulate a dragon's inborn ability to cast spells but it being thinned by your human blood. 

Or you could take a "feat" at 6th lvl to cast a couple spells like a gnome does. We'll just make a HB feat, I am the DM 

All you really need is to cast one spell even a cantrip spontaneously to be able to go DD and once you start l think the ability boosts and such will make Aidan a good crunch warrior. But remember I prefer Role-play over Roll-play and Aidan sure has supplied me with plenty of great reads.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> It's truly ok no need to have it thought out yet. I was going to have your tutor be inside the tavern Aidan is about to enter but I can put him somewhere else if you chose Duskblade.
> 
> Hold on... checking a few things.
> 
> I would allow you to swap out Ki strike for a limited spell progression say like that of a bards and also limited known spells. Which would simulate a dragon's inborn ability to cast spells but it being thinned by your human blood.
> 
> Or you could take a "feat" at 6th lvl to cast a couple spells like a gnome does. We'll just make a HB feat, I am the DM
> 
> All you really need is to cast one spell even a cantrip spontaneously to be able to go DD and once you start l think the ability boosts and such will make Aidan a good crunch warrior. But remember I prefer Role-play over Roll-play and Aidan sure has supplied me with plenty of great reads.
> 
> HM




Haha, I've already implied that Aidan's "Stunning Fist" is magic.    I don't know if I wanna go swapping it.  Hmm... So far it looks like, if Aidan's going to become more tank-like for the most part (Even though that'll be counter to my "Flying Dragon-breath" tactic eventually), he'll need: Armor(I can use that feat you mentioned to increase Aidan's AC a few points, plus his Natural AC increasing would be good; Better chance to hit:  MCing into DD will hurt his BAB progression, but the strength will make up that single point lost; More HP:  This will likely be accomplished between the increased con and the shiny D12 HD unless I roll low.

I'm thinking those are the main things, as if he's moving around with a spiked chain and such, chances are he'll hold some people's attention.

HM; Could I perchance simply take a feat that increases the save DC of my Stunning Fist by 1 or so and have it count as a 'spell' for the purposes of DD?  Not sure what we'd do about the bonus spells in that case, maybe extra stunning fist uses?

As a note: I realize it's still RP over numbers, but being a waste of space in combat isn't very fun, and whenever I look back thus far, that's about all Aidan's been... 

Edit: Doh!  You said Ki-strike, not Stunning fist.  Um... Hm... What sorts of spells would we be talking about?


----------



## HolyMan

Not talking about the stunning fist I was refering to Ki Strike(magic). What if you swapped that to have the ability to cast 2 zero lvl spells spontaneously per day.  We can figure what spells you know later - I like Stand for Aidan seems to fit.

You lose a potentialy helpful ability for something small but it gives you the prereq you would need and sets our path. 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM don't get me wrong, i am not complaining  I am simply considering low wealth to be one of the factors that determine campaign power levels.

Low wealth + low optimization = very low power levels. We don't have a single Tier 1 character apart from Lora and even she is very un-optimized (not a specialist Wizard, taking Milita at level 1 etc.)

Since we are talking mostly Core here, here is a run down:

*Wizard *- #1 IMO, once we get past level 5 and the Wizard can start Flying around, the class pretty much outshines everything else. When one gets to Time Stop, Wish, Gate and the likes the game ends.

*Druid* - supremely versatile and very hard to "screw up" by an unexperienced player. Has very good spells, and superb class abilities. The pet bear is awesome, and his Wild Shapes are better at fighting/grappling/tripping/bull rushing then an actual Fighter who takes the appropriate feats.

*Cleric *- versatile, with deadly spells later on, very good at melee (better then any actual "warrior" class) and once they get to Miracle and the likes it's bye bye. Especially bad with variants like Cloistered Cleric, Knowledge Deviotion, and with domains like Time, Planning etc.

And no a Mystic Theurge is quite bad when comapred to a pure Wizard or Cleric.
...............................................
Here we have *Sorcerers *and *Psions*. Very very good, the only thing they lack compared to the "big three" is versatility.

Battle Sorcerer is very bad and is never a good trade off, since it lowers your versatility to abysmal levels.
...............................................
Here we have *Bards*, *Rogues*, *Rangers*,* Barbarians *and *Paladins*

These three can be much better with additional sources for spells. In core they are sub par, except for a Diplomacy optimized Bard. Rogues are OK but too many things can be immune to Sneak Attack with Core Only itemry. At later levels with UMD they can get by so ling as they have wands and scrolls.

Barbarians are good at fighting with their Rage, although hindered by the lack of better things to take from sources like Complete Warrior. With non-core material, they can get north of 500 damage on a charge attack, which makes them deadly (at least to things that worry about physical attacks) In the SRD there are variants like Lion Totem Barbarian and Whirling Frenzy which are good.
...............................................
*Fighter *and *Monk *reside here, at the very bottom. Why? Well up until level 4 or so, Fighters are actually very good. But this is the class that lacks any class features whatsoever. They run out of good feats to take very, very quickly, especially with core only material. The Druid's pet bear or tiger is better at fighting then them at mid levels already. The Druid's Wild Shape as well. Heck, a Wizard with Transformation alone can handle them, and if non-core spells like Bite of the Weretiger and Wriathstrike are allowed, fighters become completely useless. The other disadvantage they have is that they can do pretty much nothing outside of combat, while the other classes can.

Monks are good only as a dip. They are a class that relies on melee but get medium BAB. They are squishy and their AC won't help them versus lots of things mid-high CR creatures have. Their SR comes in to play later then that of a Cleric (who has it via spell) and everything else they get is easily outdone even with core magic.

HM's games are more about role playing and less about being the best of the best. Will a group of 2 Wizads, 2 Clerics and 2 Druids rule? Yes. Could we have taken on the entire Treylor foce with such a group? Yes. Will it be fun? Probably not. It would probably prompt HM to send nasty enemies our way. Or lose his passion for the game, which is worse.

I'm happy with the way the game is right now. TOB classes will be right below Sorcerer and Psion, which will mean they will be better then anything we have so far, unless i stick with straight Wizard for Lora. It's up to HM to decide though


----------



## Myth and Legend

BTW HM, is that a real "Arthur answer" lol, Lora would know, but I don't want to assume. It sure seems real.


----------



## Dragonwriter

I know you're rather big on the Tier system, Myth, but they are also subjective (one of the points the originator makes in the post). It does vary from one group to another, depending on the level of optimization.
(And one little quibble: the Psion is not Core. It's in the SRD due to the Expanded Psionics Handbook being Open Game Content.)

We also have access to PH2 now... I know the four classes within aren't considered great, but they each have good points. Dragon Shaman and Duskblade are potent (as I recall, Tier 4 and 3, respectively, but having played a DS for some time, they should be in Tier 3 due to usefulness), while Beguiler is a full caster with access to 9th-level spells (largely enchantment and illusion, but those can be quite potent, if used in a clever manner; Tier 2-3 if memory serves).

As to the "Aidan advancement" issue, FWIW, there is a ritual for kobolds allowing you to spend some money, lose 1 HP permanently and gain a 1st-level spell as an SLA 1/day. I think there was also a web enhancement with another ritual to increase Sorcerer caster level by 1. Of course, these were kobold-only, but it could provide a basis with creating a ritual to imbue Aidan with a little magic, without sacrificing levels and BAB (since, as you've pointed out, Theroc, he already has a lot of trouble with his attacks). And perhaps the bonus spells would give him another use/day of the SLA.

On a related note: Swordsage is not a good tank class. d8 HD, Medium BAB, light armor only... Sure, you get a bunch of maneuvers, but you have the worst of the three recovery mechanics.


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> As to the "Aidan advancement" issue, FWIW, there is a ritual for kobolds allowing you to spend some money, lose 1 HP permanently and gain a 1st-level spell as an SLA 1/day. I think there was also a web enhancement with another ritual to increase Sorcerer caster level by 1. Of course, these were kobold-only, but it could provide a basis with creating a ritual to imbue Aidan with a little magic, without sacrificing levels and BAB (since, as you've pointed out, Theroc, he already has a lot of trouble with his attacks). And perhaps the bonus spells would give him another use/day of the SLA.



  Well, a SLA won't qualify Aidan for Dragon Disciple anyhow, it has to be 'spontaneous casting'... as a basis it could work, but Aidan's HP already stinks IMO.


			
				DW said:
			
		

> On a related note: Swordsage is not a good tank class. d8 HD, Medium BAB, light armor only... Sure, you get a bunch of maneuvers, but you have the worst of the three recovery mechanics.



I'd say a Swordsage with the same key switch as Aidan's monk would likely be BETTER as a tank than Aidan as a monk.    I am aware it's not an ideal tank.  ~shrug~
I'm just kinda lost as to how to proceed now.  I find it funny people always say that planning out a characters details in advance is bad for roleplaying, but now I don't even know where to go so I'm happy with his numbers.  lol.


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> BTW HM, is that a real "Arthur answer" lol, Lora would know, but I don't want to assume. It sure seems real.




So I did well then? LOL I wondered but yes that is a real Arthur answer, he may believe people get what they deserve but there is one person in the whole world that is the exception. 

Thanks for the tier thing but I don;t follow crunch stuff a character is as good as the game he is in. I could take a group of 2 wizards, 2 clerics. and 2 druids and give them quiet the workout. LOL It the play that's the thing your crunch should be secondary always as I will never throw in something to make a character worthless in his role. i.e non crit monsters, no traps, no undead, etc. You all make the characters and my job is to mold the game around them. 



Dragonwriter said:


> I
> As to the "Aidan advancement" issue, FWIW, there is a ritual for kobolds allowing you to spend some money, lose 1 HP permanently and gain a 1st-level spell as an SLA 1/day. I think there was also a web enhancement with another ritual to increase Sorcerer caster level by 1. Of course, these were kobold-only, but it could provide a basis with creating a ritual to imbue Aidan with a little magic, without sacrificing levels and BAB (since, as you've pointed out, Theroc, he already has a lot of trouble with his attacks). And perhaps the bonus spells would give him another use/day of the SLA.




I like the ritual ideal for getting Aidan's "dragon blood" to surface may use it. Thanks alot.



Theroc said:


> I'm just kinda lost as to how to proceed now. I find it funny people always say that planning out a characters details in advance is bad for roleplaying, but now I don't even know where to go so I'm happy with his numbers. lol.




Which is how it should be, a character can't be thought out to far in advance. Especially in a campaign and you not sure what would be useful later on. You plan one way but the DM plans another and you get stuck with worthless abilites/spells or even items if the game doesn't start at 1st lvl. Best case is to mold as you go if something you want has pre req. go ahead and start that a little, but never assume that in the end you will be this or that. 

In this game you all have the advantage as I am not one to make stuff up to far ahead of time. Although ghostcat chose sleep as a spell he got unlucky as the Treylor were always going to be elves from day one. Roman style elves, but as to why they were invading I didn't have an answer to that till DW made Jareth and then I had a few things planned do to that. Now with the addition of FtF's character I have a twist and... well you will all see. Just hope you are having as much fun as your DM.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Nice post in the IC FtF I think everyone should figure out their intentions and post what they want to do for their character.

It is two days till XP so I will be waiting to post something big till then. But I think maybe we can split the groups in two and have it balance for lvls. Not nessacary trust me I will roll with whatever, but for now it may be the 2nd lvls going across the river now and the higher lvls catching up after. 

So in the next couple days give me a post up of who wishes to join Malaroc, and then I will see where we are for the others. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I like the ritual ideal for getting Aidan's "dragon blood" to surface may use it. Thanks alot.



  I don't think Aidan would consent to any ritual mojo, he'd likely be afraid he'd lose his stuff again...  rofl, I wouldn't mind though.




			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Which is how it should be, a character can't be thought out to far in advance. Especially in a campaign and you not sure what would be useful later on. You plan one way but the DM plans another and you get stuck with worthless abilites/spells or even items if the game doesn't start at 1st lvl. Best case is to mold as you go if something you want has pre req. go ahead and start that a little, but never assume that in the end you will be this or that.



Well, thing is, I thought it was funny because since I DIDN'T plan him out too much when I made him, now he seems subpar and ineffective.    I don't know what to do to avoid that, since I can't figure out whether it's his class bringing him down, my crappy rolls, or something else entirely.



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> In this game you all have the advantage as I am not one to make stuff up to far ahead of time. Although ghostcat chose sleep as a spell he got unlucky as the Treylor were always going to be elves from day one. Roman style elves, but as to why they were invading I didn't have an answer to that till DW made Jareth and then I had a few things planned do to that. Now with the addition of FtF's character I have a twist and... well you will all see. Just hope you are having as much fun as your DM.
> 
> HM




I'm definitely enjoying the RP, I really like the dynamic Aidan and Lora had.  I'm not enjoying being a sleepy punching bag in combat though.    (Hasn't 'won' a fight yet.  lol )  Not trying to be whiny... I just dunno how to go about fixing it.


----------



## Myth and Legend

> Thanks for the tier thing but I don;t follow crunch stuff a character is  as good as the game he is in. I could take a group of 2 wizards, 2  clerics. and 2 druids and give them quiet the workout. LOL It the play  that's the thing your crunch should be secondary always as I will never  throw in something to make a character worthless in his role. i.e non  crit monsters, no traps, no undead, etc. You all make the characters and  my job is to mold the game around them.



HM a group of such 20 level characters will break any campaign unless the DM wants to have rocks fall on them.

Or it is rather more precise to say, they will breeze trough things a group of Fighters, Monks and Paladins will have no chance of beating.

With non-core material i can make this aforementioned party beat anything CR20-30 you can throw at them unless it's another group of similarly powered and optimized characters. And i'm not talking about insane optimization that is abusing RAW, even RAI optimization will make them a bunch of godlings pretty much.

But i digress, and I do agree that it's the DM's job to challange everyone equally. That really becomes tougher when there is a mix of characters and players at different skill levels. Challenging the monk and fighter while standing next to a druid and cleric will be tough indeed (If those druids and clerics know what they are doing of course).


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> So in the next couple days give me a post up of who wishes to join Malaroc, and then I will see where we are for the others.
> 
> HM




HM. I'm OK with whatever you come up with for Trinham. My latest post gives you a way of letting Trinham join Malaroc. But if you want to pass, then he will stick around for the trial but NOT the subsequent execution.


----------



## Scratched_back

As a player, I'm not really fussed which way I go... but it would make much sense for me to go and track down Tharivol, either with Jareth, or shadowing him.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Sept 16th - Sept 30th*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                           XP
[/U]Dragonwriter                    470
Myth and Legend                 325
Fangor the Fierce               230
ghostcat                        390
Lughart                         170
Scratched_back                  105
Sugar_Silk                      115
Theroc                          275

 
*CONGRATS TO Sugar_Silk for reaching 2nd Level* 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Here Theroc maybe this will help with an exhibition post 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSt_6cUHLYU&feature=related]YouTube - Kung Fu - Chain Whip[/ame]

HM


----------



## Theroc

It probably would, though, I don't think Aidan has the Exhibition skill yet.  What modifies it and the like again?  Charisma?


----------



## HolyMan

It is a perform skill. I'm linking it to that as a way to make money in the circles. No ranks needed.

HM


----------



## Theroc

Kk, not sure how I use the other skills to 'Aid another', I'm the only one there... or is Heron dancing around my chain too?


----------



## HolyMan

Ok what I am thinking at the moment...

Group one being Malaroc, Darling, Cedric, Trinham and Jareth. Although the last two will join after the first three are already across the river. 

How?? Don't know yet. Working on it.

Lora and Elms should there posting players still be slow will have something of there own to do perhaps any newbies joining can join them.

If Jareth continues to say he wil travel alone (have a plan to stop that ) and the party splits then I will still have everyone post in K2V but combats might be held here or in a thread of there own and I will edit the action into one combat/battle post in the IC.

Now as for the first three Malaroc, Darling, and Cedric post IC you are all ready to cross I will fast forward you to the evening (but not the others). And we will continue this.

Theroc - roll initative 

HM


----------



## Theroc

Haha, time for Aidan to get beaten up again!  At least this time he gets to go first!  (hopefully... a 19 is pretty good.  >.>)

Edit: Nope.  So, I get to get beaten AND I get to go last!   roflmao


----------



## HolyMan

Nope beat you with a 21 sorry buddy but it is time for another butt kicking. LOL

I thought you were winning the fight against Rathman de' Turmin?? I almost had it that he would follow you and challenge you again to finish that fight. Although this will be alot more fun RP wise.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Can't give you XP for your edit reason so will go to the RG and give you 50XP for making your DM roflmao LOL 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Nope beat you with a 21 sorry buddy but it is time for another butt kicking. LOL
> 
> I thought you were winning the fight against Rathman de' Turmin?? I almost had it that he would follow you and challenge you again to finish that fight. Although this will be alot more fun RP wise.
> 
> HM




Um... if I was winning it was barely, and only because I got lucky and stunned him... but then Dellex ruined life.


----------



## HolyMan

Oh yes I need to get everyone hating Dellex so that when you all start working for him it is bitter sweet LOL.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Oh yes I need to get everyone hating Dellex so that when you all start working for him it is bitter sweet LOL.
> 
> HM




We already work for Dellex.  ~points @ the part where Dellex runs Bairan's affairs~



At the moment Aidan just wants to beat someone up so he won't look like a total pansy.  Everyone picks on him.  rofl

What the heck is that spell anyway?  "Black bolt of Pwn"?

If it isn't, it just pwned Aidan anyway.


----------



## HolyMan

Ray of Exhaustion 

You do have one advantage in this fight but I'm not telling. 

Did you look at the spoiler??

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Ray of Exhaustion
> 
> You do have one advantage in this fight but I'm not telling.
> 
> Did you look at the spoiler??
> 
> HM




Yes. I'm just trying to decide which 'he' is referred to as his.

I think I know which, but I'm not certain.  Pretty sure I know what the advantage is too... it just won't stop me from losing... would just stop me from taking a beating.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> What the heck is that spell anyway?  "Black bolt of Pwn"?




No, that would be Enervation. 



HolyMan said:


> Group one being Malaroc, Darling, Cedric, Trinham and Jareth. Although the last two will join after the first three are already across the river.




And this is where the previously-mentioned skepticism comes in, HM. You have things going for everyone else, except myself and Trinham. And this sort of thing has happened before (Aidan in the circle fight). Sure, ghostcast can do another Moggins post, but I can only manage Jareth's thoughts (and possibly a little SLA fun). It strikes me as rather unfair when you are the one who split the party, to then effectively reduce some of the XP of the players for going along with what you did (even when we _should_ have argued and fought).



> If Jareth continues to say he wil travel alone (have a plan to stop that ) and the party splits then I will still have everyone post in K2V but combats might be held here or in a thread of there own and I will edit the action into one combat/battle post in the IC.




Jareth isn't saying he'll travel alone, he is saying he'll only go with Tira. 

I think just sblocking the combat details would work best, if there are different fights going on. So many combat posts would clog this thread, and do we really want another thread to watch?


----------



## HolyMan

Nope, I have it that those who are behind in XP have a small chance to catch up alittle. So that everyone will either be the same lvl or close enough it wouldn't matter much. In this game advancement is going to beat out treaure so every once in a while you will see those behind get a chance to catch up. I mean Trinham will be lvl 5 soon. 

And nothing is stopping you from posting either your thoughts, a flashback, or some other insight into Jareth's state of mind. Specially something about Tharivol and your training (you now know he shouldn't have taught you prehaps he eluded to it during your training). 

I had plans to split the group off and Jareth and other higher lvls not going on the dungeon delve (that could still happen). But doing something else to help the story progress.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Nope, I have it that those who are behind in XP have a small chance to catch up alittle. So that everyone will either be the same lvl or close enough it wouldn't matter much. In this game advancement is going to beat out treaure so every once in a while you will see those behind get a chance to catch up. I mean Trinham will be lvl 5 soon.




I thought part of this game's purpose was to have numerous people of varying capability... The idea behind the different side quests and such was to give the differently-leveled characters each something to do. Or was I mistaken?



> And nothing is stopping you from posting either your thoughts, a flashback, or some other insight into Jareth's state of mind. Specially something about Tharivol and your training (you now know he shouldn't have taught you prehaps he eluded to it during your training).




Possible, but I'd feel it was somewhat contrived to do a flashback to anything. It doesn't really fit my concept of Jareth. He's very much focused on the here and now, trying not to focus on the past. A memory-oriented post of a decent length wouldn't really be the style for him. And with Lora and Mal each having their own flashback things going on now and then, it gets a little tiresome to read such things (no offense folks). As I get a little bored with such things, I'm not hugely interested in writing one for a character who wouldn't be dredging those memories up. 

By the way... this:


HolyMan said:


> I offered you a way through the lands unmolested



made me laugh a little. I mean, she's a dragon (I know OOC, but Jareth has no idea, of course, and it will stay that way unless he finds out IC), and assuming this cave system is abandoned? I thought everyone knew if there is a cave system, monsters will take up residence.


----------



## HolyMan

Opps I meant unmolsted by the elves. Not by what's crawling in those dark passages.

The concept was to have a major battle with everyone a part of it. Kind of a Braveheart or King Arthur feel. You know combatants all around. But with spells going off, monsters being summoned and what not. Stil have some kinks there tho so will work on it before the next major battle.

The side quest were for when a party was ready to adventure (as Mal, Darling, and Cedric are) and others were not. They would go off and do one thing. And then when others were ready (or joined the game) I could send them on their own mission. Hasn't worked because the group has never been overly big (till now) so I kept everyone together and on the same mission.

Actually the only thing that has worked with this game is the always recuriting aspect. I have never had to slow down do to not enough PC's to game with, even when some drop out or fall behind. Oh and the XP (though I still get flak about it) tell me how many pbp games are out there that you actually level up in more than once a year? 

So the kinks need working on and I will do my best, right now I am still up for spilting groups and seeing how it works.

HM


----------



## Sugar_Silk

I hope I didn't botch your plans with that post about the parchment. I should really learn to read everything before I make a post. If you need me do delete it or whatever, I'm fine with that.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Sugar_Silk said:


> I hope I didn't botch your plans with that post about the parchment. I should really learn to read everything before I make a post. If you need me do delete it or whatever, I'm fine with that.




You're kidding, right? It's the duty of players to de-rail the DM's plans. 

And it's the duty of DMs to figure out how to handle things after the players do what they do best.


----------



## HolyMan

NP Sugar_Silk That is what your character would do so by all means keep the post as is.

I will wait to see what Mal and Cedric think of the parchment before continuing on there. 

What I really need is a final post from ML before I advance everyone else will wait till Fri nite if nothing I will work from a de-railed stats 

HM


----------



## Theroc

>.> HM you really hate Aidan don't you.  Level 5 Duskblade versus a level 3 exhausted monk who had already been unable to hit the broad side of a barn?

<.<  Since the rules of circle-fights are always evolving, I don't even know if Aidan can delay the match until he gets a chance to be in top condition before it starts.  >.>  As it is he'd go down like a little girl.

By the way, the first part is me just groaning at getting my arse kicked again, I'm not that bothered, the second part is why I posted, since I don't think Aidan'd be really up for another match with a guy who seems pretty darn keen on hitting him with magic.  lol.

Edit:  I posted anyhow.


----------



## HolyMan

LVL 5?? LVL 5?? sorry Duskblades don't get 3rd lvl spells till 9th lvl 

I love Aidan btw, and am about to help him never get his arse kicked again. But you have to decide what it is he will do in a situation like this. As long as you stay in character then everything will work out for the best.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> LVL 5?? LVL 5?? sorry Duskblades don't get 3rd lvl spells till 9th lvl




That's even worse.  



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> I love Aidan btw, and am about to help him never get his arse kicked again. But you have to decide what it is he will do in a situation like this. As long as you stay in character then everything will work out for the best.
> 
> HM




I was mostly joking, and I figured he wouldn't let Aidan rest for an hour, which means he's thoroughly screwed as far as even having a glimmer of hope, though guessing from the fact that this guy is three times Aidan's level, he never had a chance in hell to begin with.


----------



## HolyMan

Lora's suitor was 5 times your lvl and you came out alright there just a little winded.

Must always remember the point isn't to win a fight it is to survive and learn from it. If an encounter helps you grow RP wise than that is the best encounter you could have ever had, not the one that gives you such and such XP or such and such treasure. Have faith in your DM we are still building up Aidan till the day he becomes Mr. Bada$$ 

I gotta get some sleep 7 hrs till I gots to be at work and I have a full day thinking up what Dellex is going to say to Jareth. (Or not say, you think you have it bad LOL your not picking a fight with a 16th lvl LE wizard so count your blessings.)

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Lora's suitor was 5 times your lvl and you came out alright there just a little winded.




I was taken out of action in one hit.    Luckily the suitor wasn't of a mind to draw a weapon or Aidan would very possibly be dead.  lol



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Must always remember the point isn't to win a fight it is to survive and learn from it.



  I think this here is my issue.  I'm rather not accustomed to games were my objective is just to get out alive, the objective is usually to force the opposition to struggle hard to do that very thing.    That difference of expectation is likely part of my frustration with Aidan's effectiveness.



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> If an encounter helps you grow RP wise than that is the best encounter you could have ever had, not the one that gives you such and such XP or such and such treasure.



Never was about the treasure, I'm very much a slayer according to the DMG.  I enjoy roleplaying, but I really enjoy my characters succeeding(particularly in scenarios where he's forced into a fight).  I do agree the good roleplaying is more important than the loot.  Loot can always be figured out later.  Good RP isn't something that can be 'established later' as easily.



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Have faith in your DM we are still building up Aidan till the day he becomes Mr. Bada$$



Haha, alrighty.  I'm at a loss anyhow so I'll roll with your ideas until something strikes me(or I might just keep going with yours anyhow!  )



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> I gotta get some sleep 7 hrs till I gots to be at work and I have a full day thinking up what Dellex is going to say to Jareth. (Or not say, you think you have it bad LOL your not picking a fight with a 16th lvl LE wizard so count your blessings.)
> 
> HM




Thing is, Aidan's only 'picked' one fight[and even then he didn't really want a fight...], and that was with Lora's suitor.  Everything else picked a fight with Aidan and proceeded to either chase him across the countryside, put him to sleep, or poison him.  

Every other fight he just kinda stumbled into.  Then again, that's very much how Rand&Co. were in the first few books.  

Also:  Aidan was very close to attempting to flee from Dellex back at the tent, which likely would have led to a fight, but he stayed because he figured Lora would think him an idiot if he blew their 'ignorance' to Dellex's manipulations.

As for sleep, yeah, I gotta get up at about the same time, but that's for a D&D game via AIM, then I'm hanging out with some friends and THEN going to work.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> LVL 5?? LVL 5?? sorry Duskblades don't get 3rd lvl spells till 9th lvl






HolyMan said:


> picking a fight with a 16th lvl LE wizard so count your blessings.)




And both of these things make me question the whole "low-magic" world you insist you are running, HM. About half of the major NPCs we've run into have turned out to be spellcasters, and potent ones, at that. And now one of the party members works for a dragon, directly.

That says to me "not low-magic."


----------



## Theroc

Two things: how far apart are the hooded stranger, and is Aidan still considered exhausted?  I find it highly unlikely Aidan could hit a 9th level Duskblade (even in his prime) frequently enough to take him out in a few hits unless he has like 2 HP and no armor or dexterity to speak of.  >.> Especially with the DB as well.


----------



## Myth and Legend

I am disappointed we got Dellex's level and alignment in the OOC. Even though i won't metagame it was a major concern and point of interest for me.


----------



## HolyMan

You are 15 feet away from each other and you should listen to your short "corner man" LOL 

Sorry ML it was late and DW's post has had me in a "What to do? what to do?" state every since I read it. So I needed to figure out what spells Dellex had at his command and that's when I figured out what his lvl is. Alignment has always been LE remember when Fallon said he liked things orderly and everyone in his place, and would do anything to see that it was done that way. And he hasn't just walked up to Martomum and killed him himself but thrown him in situations that "could" bring harm to him should he be unlucky.

Don't worry I figure by this time next year he might be lvl 17 maybe even 18th. 

EDIT: Oh and DW you might be right with everyone playing a caster of some sort so instead of "low magic" let's call this a "low magic _items_" game.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM since you don't have access to the splatbooks you don'g get things like Celerity, Craft Contingent Spell and Abrupt Jaunt. As such it will be very easy for Lora to set up a trap for ol' Dellex. Cast AMF. Hide behind a door (it's an emanation). Dellex opens door. Fighter bull rushes him from behind. Bye bye lvl 9 spells.

Alternatively, True Strike + Antimagic Ray will work. That reminds me, when can i buy some spells for Lora? I need Alter Self, Rope Trick and some others.

The price for copying spells from a spellbook is 50 gp. x level of spell

Also, since she is not a specialist Wizard, will you allow her to become a Domain Wizard instead? Maybe someone can teach her? That will solve some of the "no access to spells" problems.


----------



## Theroc

HM, I'm confused... how did he attempt a disarm when Aidan was 10' away?  I was taking advantage of the chain's reach.  Did he approach me?  I was pretty sure you could only disarm within your reach?

Also: Unless this guy has Improved Disarm, he provokes an AoO from Aidan.  Unless he's armed, in which case he wouldn't be holding the chain at the end.  >.>

Just clarifying because if I wasn't screwed before, this guarantee's it.


----------



## HolyMan

You can take a 5'step as part of a ready action so we are ok. Play on while I'm not being kicked off every post LOL.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> You can take a 5'step as part of a ready action so we are ok. Play on while I'm not being kicked off every post LOL.
> 
> HM




I'll just assume has has improved disarm, I suppose.

Edit: Posted.


----------



## HolyMan

Good assumption 

I forgot to add your +4 for weilding a two handed weapon but it wouldn't have helped with the low roll.

But back to feats. If he is a 9th lvl Duskblade then he should have 4 feats (NPCs don't get the bonus +2/+2) and you know he has Improved Disarm and that means Combat Expertise.

If you can guess his other two feats I'll give you a bonus 500xp. 

Here are some clues:

He took Combat Expertise at 3rd lvl and Improved Disarm at 6th.
He does have a +2/+2 feat.

Good luck. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

How many guesses do I get?


----------



## HolyMan

LOL hmm.. I'll be nice and give you two tries  good luck.

HM


----------



## Theroc

Deft Hands and Improved Initiative


----------



## HolyMan

Nope he has neither of those.

A final clue, he took the +2/+2 feat at 9th lvl because of what happened to him after training his son.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Nope he has neither of those.
> 
> A final clue, he took the +2/+2 feat at 9th lvl because of what happened to him after training his son.
> 
> HM




>.>  So, he has 20 dexterity?  Dayum.  What array is he using!?

Okay, so that helps with the +2/+2, but leaves me still clueless on the other.  I'm rather surprised he can manage a 20 in dexterity without sacrificing his spellcasting rather heavily.


----------



## HolyMan

Not hard to get +2 for race, +2 for lvls and there you go. Also you really don't need the extra XP as I have been doing XP this morning and seems you are ready to lvl up. So we need to figure out what your "path" is going to be in the next week or so.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Not hard to get +2 for race, +2 for lvls and there you go. Also you really don't need the extra XP as I have been doing XP this morning and seems you are ready to lvl up. So we need to figure out what your "path" is going to be in the next week or so.
> 
> HM




Haha, I know, I just like guessing.  As for the 20 Dex, I fully understand it'd be easy to achieve, but that's at the expensive of Intelligence, which I had understood to be rather important for a Duskblade.

Edit: As for Path, I still really have NO idea.  Since the maximum late game benefit would be take as many casterlevels as possible first, THEN go Dragon Disciple to add more higher level spells known, or maybe to mesh them in between, rather than Db1/DD10/Db??


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Oct 1st - Oct 15th*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                           XP
[/U]Theroc                          495
Lughart                         110
Dragonwriter                    225
ghostcat                        325
Myth and Legend                 160
Fangor the Fierce               225
Sugar_Silk                       70

 
Congrats to Theroc for hitting 4th LVL  (better decide on something)


----------



## HolyMan

Ok gang here is the plan so far. I am about to go and push the thread forward a little but the only characters I wish to go on the adventure in the elven lands are:

Jareth
Trinham
Cedric
Malaroc

I will still be playing with the other characters but as they're players are posting slower than the twice a week it is not fair to those who wish to get on with this.

Lora I think will stay (she doesn't know that Tharivol is in elven hands), and ML wants to get some new spells so that will explain away some of the days that Lora is quiet (studying). So she will start searching and then find out everyone is gone. Besides her brother is about also. Lots for her to do.

Darling I am thinking might not be suited for dungeon crawling (and Sugar_Silk wanted to RP with ML) so she will stay behind. 

Elms... well Scratched_back hasn't been here since the end of Sept. (why do people stop posting inches from lvling up?? LOL) and I have PMed him for when he does return so everything should work out there.

Here's what I hope will happen.. but you never know in D&D.

Aidan's Duet and K2V will both end around Jan/Feb (with only about two weeks passing game time). And the following lvls will hopefully be reached. 

Lora - 5th
Trinham - 5th (probably 1/2 way to 6th lol)
Aidan - 5th (and on his way back to the army)
Jareth - 5th
Malaroc - 4th
Cedric - 4th (or very close)
Darling - 4th
Elms - 4th

 So hopefully the next few months will bring everyone close to even. After we get through all this my plan is to fast forward the army advance towards Siere and have the next adventure be city based for those who wish to play.

Ok I need to get this all started.

HM


----------



## Theroc

I'm glad I levelled, but I am honestly clueless now as to how to proceed with Aidan's levelling... since I'm now paranoid about my performance.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc buddy you are to worried about crunch but I will try and help you.

A) How far do you wish to take Dragin Disciple? I'm thinking at least to 7th giving you -

claws and bite
+4 Str
+2 Con
nat armor +3
Breath weapon (4d8) - fire??
blindsense 30'
5 bonus spells

That all looks good to me. Now if we go 15 lvls which is what I'm thinking the minimum will be than you have 8 other lvls to play with. And you don't get 2nd lvl spells as a Duskblade till 5th lvl. So what are we seeing 

MonkHB3/Duskblade5/DragonDisciple7 ?? Which means this lvl you would be taking Duskblade 1

What about trading Ki Strike (magic) out to spontaneously cast two Zero lvl spells?? Probably as a SLA (although I hate them). You would still need the knowledge requirement.

HM


----------



## Theroc

I suppose we can go that route for now, though I wanted the flight eventually too.  But that just means if the game continues... 

As for the ki strike... I'm not sure a 2/day spell like ability as weak as 'flare' is worth a constant potential bonus on every unarmed attack I make.  Then again, I have no idea how many Treylor soldiers wear Armor of Invulnerability or how many dragons we'll be running across.


----------



## Sugar_Silk

Hey all, sorry I kinda dropped off there. New schedule was playing havoc with my sleep/free time. Sorry I missed out on the elven lands, but you did a good job playing Darling HM. Elms and his gems are definitely two of her concerns. I'll try and get back in the swing of things here, and I apologize for delaying the mission.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks Sugar_Silk now that you are staying behind you may play at your leisure and I promise to keep everything interesting for you. When you have time first thing you should look into is lvling Darling up.

And Theroc that did not help me at all Mr. Undecided. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> And Theroc that did not help me at all Mr. Undecided.
> 
> HM




I like things that don't run out.  Did you notice how I like to maximize my chance to hit with a stunning fist attack?  I trip because I want to hit.
I don't want to fizzle my attacks missing an unhittable adversary.  

Two 1/day abilities of the magnitude of a level 0 spell don't seem particularly useful.  But, as I also said, they might be MORE useful, if I never run into ANYTHING with DR X/Magic.

So, I don't know which is better.  It didn't help you because it didn't help me.  More choices = more chances for me to be undecided.


----------



## HolyMan

Two zero lvl spells help you qualify for the PrC you wish to take. 

Remeber I make things based on what ou or the group have. So if you have DR/magic than I will make it useful (it's my job), I would not throw a bunch of DR creatures into a game if you didn't have it and say, "See what you did by not taking it."

I want to progress your story but I need a hook to your lvl up. So I guess we need to wait till you decide. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Two zero lvl spells help you qualify for the PrC you wish to take.
> 
> Remeber I make things based on what ou or the group have. So if you have DR/magic than I will make it useful (it's my job), I would not throw a bunch of DR creatures into a game if you didn't have it and say, "See what you did by not taking it."
> 
> I want to progress your story but I need a hook to your lvl up. So I guess we need to wait till you decide.
> 
> HM




If I take a level of Duskblade, then I'd already meet the spontaneous casting requirement.  If I do the 0 LA spells... the increased spells through the PrC are essentially wasted, because there really aren't many 0 level spells that are much use.

My main hitch with duskblade is the lack of synergy with what I've got currently.  I suppose if I pick spells that allow no saves and bypass spell resistance(or are just buff spells), that will work fine.

As for the DR thing, I wasn't implying you'd throw them in BECAUSE I traded away the feature.  I was more implying I cannot foresee whether or not the ability will be useful or not.  As a general rule, I'd rather have reliable effectiveness than sporadic wildly effectiveness.

I did not realize your next post was relying on Aidan's level up stuff, since the fight wasn't even concluded yet... I'll try to think more on it.


----------



## HolyMan

Take your time I was going to imply some casting in your attacks (just what I don't know) And this fight is over LOL you just don't know you have won.

HM

_


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Take your time I was going to imply some casting in your attacks (just what I don't know) And this fight is over LOL you just don't know you have won.
> 
> HM
> 
> _




Casting=Stunning Fist.

I've been trying to get that Stunning fist to be a manifestation of Aidan's latent magical talents since his fight with Rathman!  >.>  I say it every time I use it.  

That's why I finally decided to use it now, so Hooded Stranger could see the magic and know Aidan's a bit more than he realizes... (Since the stunning fists aren't necessarily a conscious effort on his part)


----------



## HolyMan

Using your stunning fist is what I have been waiting in since round one 

When this guy sees the magic he will be stunned without you connecting LOL I just need to know what he sees.

Take your time Theroc with the Duet it seems you get XP way faster than everyone else so we are right on schedule.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Using your stunning fist is what I have been waiting in since round one
> 
> When this guy sees the magic he will be stunned without you connecting LOL I just need to know what he sees.
> 
> Take your time Theroc with the Duet it seems you get XP way faster than everyone else so we are right on schedule.
> 
> HM




So, you want me to add what it looks like?  I didn't intend for it to be very visibly obvious, more something that anyone of magical ability could FEEL was magic if they were close enough to it.  If anything it'd feel like a static charge around his foot as it passed by his head.


----------



## HolyMan

No not the stunning fist that you are right is more felt than seen. I was talking about these "new abilities" - your lvl up - I am working on something that may surprise Tharivol's father. And adding fluff to your lvl up.

HM

_


----------



## Myth and Legend

Wait Lora is level 5? That means she gets 3rd level spells. 

HM what on the whole Domain Wizard thing? Since it's in the SRD you can review the rules (and it's a good way to progress as a Genrealist)

I don't remember leveling to lvl 5, give me a ruling so i can progress. She gets 2 lvl 3 spells at level up anyway so i need to figure those out. Now the versatility of a Wizard will come in to play


----------



## HolyMan

No ML I'm sorry Lora did not lvl up that was a "what I hope to see by Jan/Feb" post for the current game.

I will give domain wizards a more indepth look into in the next couple days (because I am off work) But my quick look didn't find anything wrong with the variant so far will have something concrete by WED nite.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Oh, lol well then i need to get back on my posting and roleplaying  Although if Lora takes out that Hydra she will earn a pretty sizable chunk of XP. 

Domain Wizard is an alternate progression, which (like specialization) is selected at level one. But you are known to make things flexible so i think it could be gained at a later level with retroactive bonuses (getting the domain spells from the previous levels) should you allow it.

I'm thinking the Transmutation Domain as that is befitting Lora's "Wtich's apprentice" status. Turning people in to frogs - the classical Witch power from the fairy tails.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok How did I miss this movie it says it came out in AUG??

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZs2_i_cDE]YouTube - Centurion Movie Trailer[/ame]

I am already figuring in a few Treylor escaping and all. And now something I need to see.

HM

_


----------



## Myth and Legend

I watched it a while back. It's good but a bit low on the budget, so they cut a lot from extras. Compared to the massive battles in Gladiator, Braveheart or Kingdom of Heaven this seems... lacking. But the actors are good, the setting is very accurate, one can feel the decline of the WRE in the air. The movie is trying to be realistic and almost succeeds (but still has swords that go WHIIIIIEENNNGGGGG when pulled out of a leather scabbard )


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks ML you should look at the Ironclad trailers they seem to be trying for a "real feel" also. (but sorry all swords will screettcchh or whiinngg?? out of all movie scarrabs, LOL)

Ok Theroc I think I have something to help look this over and tell me what you think:

Aidan LvL 4:
+1 to any stat (players choice)
Duskblade 1
Swap - Prof with all martial weapons for Weapon Finese
Swap - Prof with all armor and shields for Toughness, Karmic Strike, and Deft Opportunist (we are forgetting about the Defensive Throw btw)
Spells = 3 0lvl - chosen by player & 2 1stlvl - chosen by DM 
Arcane Attunment - no change
Swap Amored Mage(light) for Eschew Materials
HP: d8
Skills: 6 points (4 of which must be put into Knowledge Arcana)

Now if you like the above I will post the next two rounds of combat and Aidan's "partial" lvl up. Alot of it based on the two spells I have figured out would be useful. And a little surprise I figured out.

This would put Aidan on the road to being a front line combatant who gets an attack back in combat whether he is hit or not, very kool.

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

Looks like we're finally getting into the low-CHA clash!


----------



## HolyMan

that's what I was thinking.. LOL

I will give ghostcat till tonight to decide to stay or go to the boat before advancing the thread.

HM

_


----------



## ghostcat

Apologies for not posting before now. Initially I was waiting for Dragonwriter to post and then I started dithering about Trinham's course of action.

IC post now up.


----------



## HolyMan

NP ghostcat I thought maybe everyone was standing around stunned. But no one need worry I think the might Wizardress Loreen Winmer is about to take it out with a single spell. 

So much for the hydra being a great big scary monster if one second lvl spell can kill it. I need to rethink allowing you all to take spells from outside the basics LOL.

HM

EDIT: good thing Lora didn't throw a simple weapon at Jareth?? LOL How can duskblades be prof with all martial weapons but not one simple?? Heading out be on tonight late for update.
_


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> EDIT: good thing Lora didn't throw a simple weapon at Jareth?? LOL How can duskblades be prof with all martial weapons but not one simple?? Heading out be on tonight late for update.
> _




It's called mistake, then errata. Anyways, I can't use the glaive. Traded martial proficiency out.


----------



## HolyMan

What?? LOL guess I should look deep into what you know then I was going to have Jareth "find" a short sword or something.

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

I was hoping to find just a longspear and a dagger (or even a club). Still have simple weapon proficiency, just no martial weapons.


----------



## HolyMan

oh a club (or quarterstaff) for sure. You wish to post in K2V before I update.

and great post FtF and Lughart (it is no problem to add something like Trinham showing up, I was about to myself). I will be updating shortly first want to see what DW wants to do.

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

Jareth will look for weapons, then his half-sister.

Simple as that, and IC post went up there with such statements.


----------



## HolyMan

Good enough. 

UPDATING...

HM

_


----------



## Myth and Legend

I'll hold off on posting until i get a response from HM via PM, I don't want to ruin this game


----------



## HolyMan

Ok updated Off to War with Jareth back in camp. So we can get him going and on track there.

I was going to update some things tonight and the rest tommorrow but am tired, so will do them all tommorrow.

HM

_


----------



## HolyMan

Let's see almost two hours of searching both BaHM and the thought "conversation" in K2V and I have some update for ghostcat.

Since it has only been 48 hrs for Trinham and almost 7 months for you I wish to help update what Trinham knows.



		Code:
	

* Vances said to Jareth,[COLOR=royalblue] "I know not your father but I knew someone who did. But[/COLOR]
[COLOR=royalblue]then I have not seen Tharivol in sometime."[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=white]* Trinham is not sure on the current status/location of Jareth's father or [/COLOR]
[COLOR=white]Tharivol for that matter.[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=white]* Tira was born to an elven princess. And Trinham was there when the father [/COLOR]
[COLOR=white]was "assumed" to be also Jareth's[/COLOR]
 
* There was no mention of Tira being the person Jareth was to meet in his 
attempt to rescue Tharivol.But I believe Trinham smart enough to figure it out.
 
* Tharivol is on trail for teaching Jareth.
 
* Trinham doesn't know that Tharivol is a half-elf or Rizella is his mother. 
Or that Aidan is currently fighting his father (where is Theroc??)

 
I will push through this as I believe Trinham would correct himself I hope the info helps. I did enjoy going back and re-reading the beginning of BaHM. Hope to create more great re-reads with all of you.

HM

_


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Mal might need a little Aid Another with that bluff, lol.  I guess the bluff part is about how much time they have to free Tharivol.  The three of them crossed the river, yet Mal does not know if Jareth will be able to cross until tomorrow or not.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Hmmm, thinking of trying to fill that lacking rogue role - though I'd be going for an Arcane Trickster style build.  I've read over the character creation guidelines and have a few questions, etc.

1.)  What books are allowed?  I am sort of assuming core and anything else on a case by case basis?  Though it does not look like the existing PCs have much from beyond core.  Basically most interested in the non Arcane Trickster PRCs.

2.)  Would any of the existing PCs be interested in acquiring the services of a disreputable squire?  I am sure we could hammer out a believable scenario with a bit of effort.  And, obviously, will the DM allow it?


----------



## HolyMan

Welcome aboard Aldern Foxglove (may I call you AFg? please call me HM )

I would gladly take on another PC for Key to Victory (K2V), as I have a feeling 3 + 1 NPC a little low for the _"Ways of the Dead" _and it is excellent you wish to play a Rogue, our first here in Off to War (OtW).

If you notice character gene is whatever books you wish plus the option of swapping out abilities or feats to tailor your PC. As we are about to start delve-ing (I believe), I would like to introduce your character right away. Will PM you with some ideas to have you nearby.

HM

_


----------



## HolyMan

To everyone else, no updates till tonight after XP are handed out. 

And could anyone help me with my latest side adventure for Jareth?? I'm having a little trouble with the timing but the concept is based off an old movie, "Enemy Mine." 

Going to be great fun LOL, 

HM

_


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Sure HM, feel free to abbreviate or acronymize (not a word but should be) as you see fit, lol.  I'll work on my concept and have him ready to go shortly.


----------



## HolyMan

Great then just PM me your concept and basics so I can probably add you into tonights update.


HM

_


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Oct 16th - Oct 31st*



		Code:
	

Player                            XP
ghostcat                         340
Lughart                          170
Fangorn the Fierce               225
Myth and Legend                  565
Dragonwriter                     545

 
Looks like ghostcat may just hit lvl 5 in 15 short days, very cool.

HM

_


----------



## HolyMan

OK @AFg I can have you join if you give me a description of your character and then you and everyone can do a little RPing (and thus earning XP )

@DW will get you rolling tomorrow I have had a busy weekend and still other things to finish sorry for the delay hope you had fun at the haunted house.

Updating soon.

HM

_


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Mmmm, hold on a sec need to figure out how sexy he is...  Ah, no sexy...

Str 9 (3) Dex 18 (10) Con 12 (6) Int 20 (16) Wis 8 (0)  Cha 8 (0)

Averillian Quinithar (have I accidentally stolen the family name form somewhere?  Seems oddly familiar.)

Appearance: Aver strongly resembles a shoddily made version of his nobles father; where his sires nose is powerful and raptorlike lending him a feirsome air Aver's is distinctly rodentine; where his father's hair is lustrous blond Aver's is the color of dirty straw.  His eyes are his mother's though sea green and sparkling with mischievous intelligence.

He tends to dress himself in overblown finery when he gets the chance, though he invariably complements such outfits with a nondescript, if well tailored, cloak.


----------



## HolyMan

Well someone to add to Jareth and Lora's heated debates it seems.  

Ok since you have just about that much go ahead and post yourself into the K2V. We don't need the crunch abilities just yet. But just post yourself watching Tira (planning some mischief maybe?) and that way you can follow along and I can pencil you in.

HM

_


----------



## HolyMan

*Work in Progress - Still getting the RED ink*

Aver (Averillian) Quintharian







		Code:
	

Name: Aver Quintharian
Class: Rogue
Race: Noble Elf (Grey Elf)
Size: M
Gender: Male
Alignment: CN
Deity: none [COLOR=red][B]hmm, agnostic or atheist?[/B][/COLOR]
 
Str:  9 -1 (03p.)     Level: 1        XP: 0
Dex: 18 +4 (10p.)     BAB: +0         HP: 7 (1d6+1)
Con: 12 +1 (06p.)     Grapple: -1     Dmg Red: 0/0
Int: 20 +5 (16p.)     Speed: 30'      Spell Res: 0
Wis:  8 -1 (00p.)     Init: +4        Spell Save: 15 + spell level 
Cha:  8 -1 (00p.)     ACP: -0         Spell Fail: 0%
 
                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex   DB   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:              10    +0    +0    +4    +0    +0    +0    14
Touch: 14              Flatfooted: 10
 
                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      0    +1    +2    +3
Ref:                       2    +4          +6
Will:                      0    -1          -1
 
Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical
Dagger                      -1    1d4-1     19-20/x2
Short Bow                   +4      1d8           x3
 
 
Languages: Common, Elven, Draconic, Gnoll, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan
[B][COLOR=red]For this campagin goblin and orc are not needed as languages[/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR=red][B]you may chose others.[/B][/COLOR]
 
Feats: Stealthy[B] [COLOR=red]as bonus +2/+2 feat what about LVL 1 feat[/COLOR][/B]
 
Skill Points: 60       Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Appraise                   0    +4          +13 [B][COLOR=red]?? weird[/COLOR][/B]
Balance                    4    +4           +8
Bluff                      4    -1           +3
Climb                      0    -1           -1
Concentration              0    +1           +1
Craft (trap making)        4    +5           +9
Decipher Script            0    +5           +5
Diplomacy                  0    -1           -1
Disable Device             4    +5           +9
Disguise                   0    -1           -1
Escape Artist              0    +4           +4
Forgery                    4    +5           +9
Gather Information         0    -1           -1
Hide                       4    +4     +2   +10
Intimidate                 0    -1           -1
Jump                       0    -1           -1
Knowledge(Arcana)          0    +5           +8 [COLOR=red][B]+5 [/B][/COLOR]
Knowledge(Arch. & Eng.)    0    +5           +6 [B][COLOR=red]+5[/COLOR][/B]
Knowledge(Local)           0    +5           +6 [COLOR=red][B]+5[/B][/COLOR]
Knowledge(Nob. & Roy.)     0    +5           +5
Knowledge(History)         0    +5           +6 [B][COLOR=red]+5[/COLOR][/B]
Knowledge(Religion)        0    +5           +5
Knowledge(Geography)       0    +5           +6 [B][COLOR=red]+5[/COLOR][/B]
Listen                     4    -1     +4*   +7
Move Silently              4    +4     +2   +10
Open Lock                  4    +4           +8
Search                     4    +5     +2*  +11
Sense motive               4    -1           +3
Sleight of Hand            4    +4           +8
Spellcraft                 0    +5           +5
Spot                       4    -1     +4*   +7
Swim                       0    -1           -1
Tumble                     4    +4           +8
Use Magic Device           4    -1           +3
 
*Bonus granted by rat familiar and/or racial bonus.
 
 
Equipment:               Cost  Weight
Dagger                    2gp    1lb
Light crossbow           35gp    4lb
10 bolts                  1gp    1lb
Explorers outfit           -      -
Spell component pouch     5gp    2lb 
Backpack                  2gp    2lb
- spellbook                -     3lb
- bedroll                 1sp    5lb
- blanket (winter)        5sp    3lb
- ink                     8gp     -
- inkpen                  1sp     -
- lamp, common            1sp    1lb
- oil, 1 pint             1sp    1lb
- waterskin               1gp    4lb
Case, map or scroll       1gp    2lb
- parchment, 3 sheets     6sp     -
 
Total Weight:26lb      Money: 18gp 5sp 0cp
[B][COLOR=red]have total as 29lbs   starting money should have been for rogue (125gp)[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=red]giving you +50gp You may buy up to one day of rations only, and should [/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=red]maybe get some thieves tools[/COLOR][/B] ;)
 
                           Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push
Max Weight:                 33    66   100   200   500
    [COLOR=red][B]have for strength 9: 30   60    90    180    450[/B][/COLOR]
 
Age: 24 [COLOR=red][B]hmm, so your a toddler or are you giving your apparent age?[/B][/COLOR]
Height: 6'4"
Weight: 122lb
Eyes: grey
Hair: red
Skin: Pale
 
Spellbook: (Necromancy & Illusion prohibited)[COLOR=red][B] Planning on being a specialist[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B]                                         I see.[/B][/COLOR]
 
Level 0
- All
 
 
Level:             0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9
Spells Per Day:  4  -   -  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
 
 
Familiar
Name: Furkiss
Class: Familiar
Race: Rat
Size: Tiny
Gender: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Deity: [B][COLOR=red]Cheddar[/COLOR][/B]
 
Str: 01 -5 (XXp.)     Level: 0        XP: 0
Dex: 15 +2 (XXp.)     BAB: +0         HP: 2 
Con: 10 +0 (XXp.)     Grapple: -12    Dmg Red: 
Int: 06 -2 (XXp.)     Speed: 10', 40'(average) Spell Res: 0
Wis: 14 +2 (XXp.)     Init: +2        Spell Save: +X
Cha: 06 -2 (XXp.)     ACP: +0         Spell Fail: 0%
 
                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:              10    +0    +0    +2    +2    +1    +0    15
Touch: 14              Flatfooted: 13
 
                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      2    +0    +0    +2
Ref:                       2    +2    +0    +4
Will:                      2    +2    +0    +4
 
Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical
Claws                     +4     1d2-5         x2
 
Abilities: Empathic Link, Improved Evasion, Low light vision, Share Spells
 
Feats:  Weapon Finesse
 
 
Skill Points: 4       Max Ranks: 0/0
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Appraise                   0    +4          +13 [COLOR=red][B]?? still weird[/B][/COLOR]
Balance                    4    +2     +8   +14
Bluff                      4    -5           -1
Climb                      0    +2     +8    -1
Concentration              0     0           +1
Craft (trap making)        4    -3           +1
Decipher Script            0    -3           -3
Diplomacy                  0    -5           -5
Disable Device             4    -3           +1
Disguise                   0    -5           -5
Escape Artist              0    +2           +2
Forgery                    4    -3           +1
Gather Information         0    -5           -5
Hide                       4    +2    +12   +16
Intimidate                 0    -5           -5
Jump                       0    -5           -5
Knowledge(Arcana)          0    -3           -3
Knowledge(Arch. & Eng.)    0    -3           -3
Knowledge(Local)           0    -3           -3
Knowledge(Nob. & Roy.)     0    -3           -3
Knowledge(History)         0    -3           -3
Knowledge(Religion)        0    -3           -3
Knowledge(Geography)       0    -3           -3
Listen                     4    -1     +4*   +7
Move Silently              4    +4     +2   +10
Open Lock                  4    +4           +8
Search                     4    +5     +2*  +11
Sense motive               4    -1           +3
Sleight of Hand            4    +4           +8
Spellcraft                 0    +5           +5
Spot                       4    -1     +4*   +7
Swim                       0    +2   +8*     -1
Tumble                     4    +2           +6
Use Magic Device           4    -5           -1
[B][COLOR=red]Still working on the above correct?[/COLOR][/B]
 
*Uses masters ranks or its own, whichever is highest


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Sorry, I'll iron out the kinks today - assuming my internet mysteriously stays on, it was supposed to be shut off on the 5th - most of the errors are from having cut and pasted from someone else's sheet.

Aver's probably not very religious, but might like someone to bargain at when the  is really hitting the fan so I'll have a ponder.


----------



## HolyMan

No Prob it's just when you start getting priest to heal you or raise the dead you might have to believe in something even if it is the power of the universe - see Gondsman's character.

HM

_


----------



## HolyMan

Ok DW I think I have the map edited like I wish now. Had to have a few rocks to shot/attack over.

Don't worry about init it will be heroes and then Treylor back and forth. So just post your action.

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

Done, though it isn't much of an action. Following orders. 

And those rocks will be far more helpful to just hide behind. Attacking over them would be useful if I had any ranged weapons.  Hm, come to think of it, javelins might be a good idea...


----------



## HolyMan

You have reach good enough.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

You know I'm a bit torn as to Lora's progression. On one hand, in in-game time she's been adventuring for but a few weeks. However she did find her brother and actually got a taste of command. Trough those processes and trough Vance's never ending stream of admiration and chivalry, I think she is warming up a bit and may not be quite as on edge in the future.

Then again the new season of Dexter shows us how a rape victim acts (well a rape victim on steroids but still) and I can't completely make her forget and move on. Not until she deals with her assailant or she accepts a totally radical change on philosophy.

On an unrelated note, she's been getting fair chunks of XP lately. Level 5 seems deliciously close.


----------



## HolyMan

I have you in a duet so you may post at your own pace but should join in with the group once they are back from the woods (And by then you should be LVL 5).

Future development: Well you may "know" where Arthur is but he is in Dellex's employ and when the army leaves he goes with them. You know I never got to post the talk with Martomum, did I? The why he gave you command over the others. Hmmm still time I guess when he gets back from the gnolls.

I figured Lora would spend the next 9-10 in game days studying and copying spells. And of coruse warming up to Vance (but then I wanted Darling to be about ) not sure what will come of that.

So after the duet I wanted her to have a choice to make, part of the talk with Lord Vir I am working on. And while she studies she can think it over.

HM

_


----------



## jackslate45

I was thinking about joining this, but dont have time this week to figure out a character type.  (was thinking of a caster type)

also, the post to allow subscribing, cause its useful


----------



## HolyMan

Welcome aboard jackslate45 

Take your time and when you come up with a concept I will see about working you in.  Until then happy gaming.

HM

_


----------



## jackslate45

(I have access to only d20srd, as I barely played 3.5.  So those of you who know better spell picks, that will be ever so helpful /bow)

After thinking about it, I was considering a Conjuration Wizard, who would summon monsters quite regularly (Removing Scribe Scroll and Familiar for Standard Action Summoning and Augment Summon).


Any other advice?


----------



## HolyMan

Those are good swaps to start. You should look long term too. If you go straight wizard you won't get to many other feats. So your best bet is to get what you need now. See what you would have later. Although that can change as things develop (look at Lora). 

You got your name and that's about a third of the battle right there. I have been thinking on a way to get you in and tie you to the campagin still working on it. I will have it ironed out once your character is done and checked over.

HM

_


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Hmmm, sorry folks been a bit crap here.  Been rather busy and keep getting waylaid by the simple problem of not being able to find a Rogue's starting wealth - my PHBs buried up in the loft somewhere usually use the SRD but its not on there.  A feeble reason for not hurrying up I know, but one that has been deflecting me nevertheless.

Can anyone tell me how much gp I should begin with as a rogue please?


----------



## HolyMan

NP AFg I have your starting gp at 125gp (jackslate45 incase you have the same prob you get 75gp to start with)

I had plans for a low wealth game with more focus on getting things and they having meaning behind them. Not I go down to the shop and buy a +1 chain shirt.

HM

_


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Right thanks HM.  Should finish off character sheet shortly then I'll post - in next hour I hope.


----------



## HolyMan

NP I am checking things before heading Off to Work, so I will go over him tonight. 

HM

_


----------



## jackslate45

other than an extensive background my guy should be done.  

short background is that due to the war, they sent out a number of summoning students from this school to assist the troops.  This way everyone comes home safe.  We have summoned monsters to take care of this after all!


----------



## HolyMan

Shoot was going to PM you my idea to get you in. Is your long term background done>?>

HM

_


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Right going to roll my Craft Trap Making check, we get the results as extra starting gp correct?  As per the profession skill right half the result in gp?


----------



## HolyMan

Note that that is extra money after you spend your starting gold. And not spendable on starting gear, But looks good at +8 gp.

HM

_


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

No problem. *wistfully returns the MW Thieves Tools*


----------



## ghostcat

HM. I have added Moggins survival check to my last move.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Aver should be complete now btw.  Barring deity, which I've PMed HM about.


----------



## jackslate45

Ernestine should be good, and ready to summon away.


----------



## HolyMan

Great will have a look at them over the weekend. You both know I give bonus XP for backgrounds right? 

Speaking of which since MON is XP day (again so soon I'm not ready?) I will have to wait to introduce your character jackslate45 will be better for my paperwork.

HM

_


----------



## HolyMan

Ok DW I think I have nearly accomplished what I wish to do for Jareth. It seemed to me that although he is Neutral in alignment this really didn't apply to the Treylor.

I will never tell anyone how to play their character but I will try and help you always stay true. So now I need to know what it is you wish to do from here. 

Note: Getting you out of the hole and back to camp will be a long post to move things along. But at camp you need to decide how you wish to help Tharivol (and as I type this ideals are forming). And perhaps talk to Fallon or Dellex (go back to Harkon?) But really all I want to know is if you wish to join the group in K2V or have Jareth head to Tirol on his own.

One has you continuing in the duet for an undetermined amount of time. The other has you continuing till I figure how to re-introduce your character into the group.

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Ok DW I think I have nearly accomplished what I wish to do for Jareth. It seemed to me that although he is Neutral in alignment this really didn't apply to the Treylor.




This circumstance is certainly going to make him reevaluate his goals. Shock him into less hate, likely. However, I'm not totally clear on what your statement means. 



> Note: Getting you out of the hole and back to camp will be a long post to move things along. But at camp you need to decide how you wish to help Tharivol (and as I type this ideals are forming). And perhaps talk to Fallon or Dellex (go back to Harkon?) But really all I want to know is if you wish to join the group in K2V or have Jareth head to Tirol on his own.




It would seem the first thing Jareth would attempt is returning to Harkon and trying to find Tira. He would ask for Fallon's assistance in doing so... After finding out he missed her departure time, he'd head for Tirol. Probably ask Fallon to give him a hand with that...



> One has you continuing in the duet for an undetermined amount of time. The other has you continuing till I figure how to re-introduce your character into the group.
> 
> HM




Either one works for me. I think there's been more character development during this little portion of the duet than when Jareth was interacting with the others... 

Not totally sure what that means...


----------



## jackslate45

so my friend gave me his entire collection of 3.5 (OMG there are a ton of books...) in order to better understand how to build a better summoner. He then helped me get the best PrCs to build Ernestine.  

2 things:

1: 3.5 is too big.  Seriously, I am glad Pathfinder has made it easier on us.  

2: Is Focused Spellcasting allowed?  as my guy is a summoner, it would be all summon monster spells for the extra slots only.  And would fit the flavor.

Thanks again.


----------



## HolyMan

@ DW - which statment are you refering to? And I think you had more character development because Jareth likes to argue, but not with himself (LOL) so he takes the opposite side of a debate just because someone has to.

@ jackslate45 - I am actually looking at your character now and had a few things about your background to ask on. And congrats on getting a 3.5 collection together (Working on mine - I wonder if DW noticed I got the Spell Compendium and used a spell from it?) You will have to tell me what a Focused Spellcaster is or does before I can let you know.

And most important you didn't list your swaps for your character please just list them here so I can finish checking Ernestine. thanks in advance

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @ DW - which statment are you refering to?




This one: 







HolyMan said:


> It seemed to me that although he is Neutral in alignment this really didn't apply to the Treylor.




Not sure what you mean on that one...

-----------



> I wonder if DW noticed I got the Spell Compendium and used a spell from it?)




Nope. Largely because I don't have Spell Compendium p). Which spell was it, anyway? The stone-warping one?


----------



## HolyMan

I was refreing to your blood lust for the Treylor that was displayed while you were captive (which that could have had something to do with it, being wrongfully accused and all). But as a Neutral you would focus more of a haterd for those responsible? Finding out what happened and bring Justice/venegance or what have you to them. 

I didn't know what your father did to be excuted when we first started playing Jareth (but I do now, ) wouldn't that be something he would wonder about or look into? Or is he just about making them all pay. 

So that is what th eduet is truly about bring him back to a neutral feel. 

Treylor bad for killing father (and who knows what about the rest of Jareth's family - I know btw it's my job) but then

Treylor saves Jareth's life. So a balance is maintained, Treylor are still bad and still going to invade, but they aren't all monsters.

The spell btw was the stone warping one. Earth Lock (Sor/Wiz 2) had a cool pic and caught my eye.

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

Okay, got it better now. Thanks for the clarification.



HolyMan said:


> I was refreing to your blood lust for the Treylor that was displayed while you were captive (which that could have had something to do with it, being wrongfully accused and all). But as a Neutral you would focus more of a haterd for those responsible? Finding out what happened and bring Justice/venegance or what have you to them.
> 
> I didn't know what your father did to be excuted when we first started playing Jareth (but I do now, ) wouldn't that be something he would wonder about or look into? Or is he just about making them all pay.




Part of it probably was Jareth being pissed off about the false charges. I'm not totally sure, as it more-or-less seemed like his reaction to the situation and things being said. Up until now (as he has now seen Treylor capacity for mercy and kindness), he's thought of the Treylor as bloodthirsty butchers. Yes, even with the explanation from "Emma," who he has no reason to trust. 

But with this random Treylor saving Jareth's life as his dying act, he's going to lose a portion of that general hatred for all Treylor. Definitely become more focused on finding out just what happened, who gave the order, who carried it out... But more than those, he'll want to find out about the rest of his family.



> So that is what th eduet is truly about bring him back to a neutral feel.
> 
> Treylor bad for killing father (and who knows what about the rest of Jareth's family - I know btw it's my job) but then
> 
> Treylor saves Jareth's life. So a balance is maintained, Treylor are still bad and still going to invade, but they aren't all monsters.




Heh. Jareth doesn't care about balance. His Neutral alignment is less "balance" and more "don't care" (I suppose like the Unaligned of 4E, from what I have heard). Ah, the joys of vague alignments. 



> The spell btw was the stone warping one. Earth Lock (Sor/Wiz 2) had a cool pic and caught my eye.




Good to know...


----------



## HolyMan

Well hope he cares a little more now, 

Do me a favor when you have the time. Make mention of these events in your LvL up post in the RG (maybe a link so as not to lose some of what went on a year from now).

I have done the XP for Jareth, and whoa I need to watch these Duets they can get out of hand quickly, so it is safe to assume there will be no more posting there till I get that main update (going back to camp) writin. 

So you could add a little to his background or list a journal update in his lvl up post whatever you wish but at least list the link. And mention of the Treylor's dying words they will pay an importance later on I hope.

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Well hope he cares a little more now,




Not about balance.  But I do get what you are saying, and he definitely has some stuff to think about.



> Do me a favor when you have the time. Make mention of these events in your LvL up post in the RG (maybe a link so as not to lose some of what went on a year from now).
> <snip>
> So you could add a little to his background or list a journal update in his lvl up post whatever you wish but at least list the link. And mention of the Treylor's dying words they will pay an importance later on I hope.




Sure thing. I don't know that I'll do a journal post, but I will at least link the Duet.



> I have done the XP for Jareth, and whoa I need to watch these Duets they can get out of hand quickly, so it is safe to assume there will be no more posting there till I get that main update (going back to camp) writin.




Uh, yeah...  I said before I can post just about each day, sometimes(/usually) multiple times per day. And I do appreciate taking the time to really make the one-person sidetrek meaningful for the character, as well as keeping things moving.


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> Uh, yeah...  I said before I can post just about each day, sometimes(/usually) multiple times per day. And I do appreciate taking the time to really make the one-person sidetrek meaningful for the character, as well as keeping things moving.




Pleasure has been all mine. I have not writin so much in a while and I thank you for it. 

Now what to do with the pages of ideas I didn't use. LOL

HM

_


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Now what to do with the pages of ideas I didn't use. LOL




Inflict them on someone else!

Uh... Save them for use at a different time, if possible? 

And I added a link to the Duet in the level-up post.


----------



## HolyMan

LOL most of the notes I see now are do A if B happens. Alot depended there on your "condition" after the fall. Not happy leaving things up to the dice but I am usually able to "roll" with it. 

I was sure Jareth would have taken more dmg from the fall and then I had this whole waking up near a small fire alone (Treylor out hunting) and then when he returned you get in a fight ( probably Jareth's fought) and then realize wait he patched me up and didn't kill me when he had the chance.

Then I saw that "any" touch spell can be casted through a weapon. And you don't need to attack to have it go off, so wanted to go the helper route.

I wish Theroc were around I have his attack post from his duet writin and I had him "channeling" - though accidently - through his hands since monks treat their unarmed strikes as both natural and manufactered weapons. Was hoping to surprise him as much as it did me to learn he could do something like that.

thanks for adding the link it is in my signature too for back up.

HM

_


----------



## jackslate45

HolyMan said:


> @ jackslate45 - I am actually looking at your character now and had a few things about your background to ask on. And congrats on getting a 3.5 collection together (Working on mine - I wonder if DW noticed I got the Spell Compendium and used a spell from it?) You will have to tell me what a Focused Spellcaster is or does before I can let you know.
> 
> And most important you didn't list your swaps for your character please just list them here so I can finish checking Ernestine. thanks in advance
> 
> HM
> 
> _




My bad 

Familiar for Rapid Summoning 
Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning 

I also messaged you a link about Focused Specialist.  I want to say its in CM.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Nov 1st - Nov 15th*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                          XP
[/U]ghostcat                       390
Aldern Foxglove                160
Fangor the Fierce              160
Lughart                        175
Dragonwriter                   880
Myth and Legend                100

 
*Congrats to ghostcat for hitting 5th LvL* 

Now I can start speaking cat.

HM
_


----------



## Dragonwriter

jackslate45 said:


> Familiar for Rapid Summoning
> Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning




FWIW, these are available in Unearthed Arcana and the SRD.

And boy is that a chunk of XP!


----------



## ghostcat

Trinham's level 5 changes are up in the RG. Another ******* 1 on the hit dice

HM:
Any chance of taking average hit points instead of rolling for subsequent rolls.


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry ghostcat if you think you need more hp you can take toughness at 6th lvl but I would rather you play up the rolls you get. Besides if you get max the next cpuple lvls it will even out.

[MENTION=95784]jackslate45[/MENTION] I am ready to introduce your character and start a little combat are you reay for an update to your characters background and what they have been doing?

HM
_


----------



## HolyMan

*RED INK *

[sblock=Ernestine Thankirk]
	
	




		Code:
	

Class: Conjuration Wizard[COLOR=red](add Focused Specialist please)[/COLOR]
Race: Human
Size: M
Gender: Female
Alignment: LN
Deity: TBD
 
Str: 08 -1 (00p.)     Level: 1        XP: 0
Dex: 16 +3 (10p.)     BAB: +0         HP: 6 (1d4+2)
Con: 14 +2 (06p.)     Grapple: +0     Dmg Red: 0/0
Int: 18 +4 (16p.)     Speed: 30'      Spell Res: 0
Wis: 08 -1 (00p.)     Init: +7        Spell Save: 14 + spell level
Cha: 11 [COLOR=red]-1[/COLOR] (03p.)     ACP: -0         Spell Fail: 0%
 
                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex   DB   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:              10    +0    +0    +3    +0    +0    +0    13
Touch: 13              Flatfooted: 10
 
                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      0    +2    +0    +2
Ref:                       0    +3          +3
Will:                      2    -1          +1
 
Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical   [COLOR=red]Range[/COLOR]
Dagger                    -1      1d4-1     19-20/x2    [COLOR=red]---[/COLOR]
Dagger(Ranged)            +3      1d4-1     19-20/x2    [COLOR=red]10'[/COLOR]
Light crossbow            +3      1d8          x3     [COLOR=red]80'[/COLOR]
 
 
Languages: Abyssal, Common, Elf, Draconic, Celestial, Infernal
 
Feats: Augment Summon, Persuasive (+2 Bluff, Diplomacy) , 
Spell Focus(Conjuration) , Improved Initative [COLOR=red]Rapid summoning??[/COLOR]
 
Skill Points: 28       Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Bluff(cc)                  2    +0    +2    +4
Diplomacy(cc)              0    +0    +2    +2
Concentration              4    +2          +6
Knowledge(Arcana)          4    +4          +8
Knowledge(Nob. & Roy.)     1    +4          +5
Knowledge(History)         1    +4          +5
Knowledge(Religion)        4    +4          +8
Knowledge(The Planes)      4    +4          +8
Speak Language(cc)         1    +0          +0(Abyssal)
Spellcraft                 4    +4          +8
 
[COLOR=red]have your skill points at 36 = (4 [wizard] + 4 [INT]) x4 + 4 [human] seems [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]you forgot the houserule about +2 skill points for each class NP[/COLOR]
 
 
 
 
Equipment:               Cost  Weight
Dagger                    2gp    1lb
Light crossbow           35gp    4lb
10 bolts                  1gp    1lb
Explorers outfit           -      -
Spell component pouch     5gp    2lb
Backpack                  2gp    2lb
- spellbook                -     3lb
- bedroll                 1sp    5lb
- ink                     8gp     -
- inkpen                  1sp     -
- lamp, common            1sp    1lb
- oil, 1 pint             1sp    1lb
- waterskin               1gp    4lb
- Trail Ration(2)         1[COLOR=red]gp[/COLOR]    2lb            
 
Total Weight:26lb      Money: 19gp 6sp 0cp
 
                           Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push
Max Weight:                 26    53   80   160   400
 
Age: 21
Height: 6'1" [COLOR=red]wow tall female play this up please[/COLOR]
Weight: 122lb
Eyes: blue
Hair: long black
Skin: dark
 
Spellbook: (Enchantment, Evocation, Necromancy prohibited)
 
Level 0
- All
 
Level 1
- Grease
- Mage Armor
- Silent Image
- Feather fall
- Enlarge Person
- Protection from Evil
- Summon Monster I
 
Level:             0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9
Spells Per Day:    3  1+3  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
[COLOR=red]list as [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Spells per day[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0 lvl: 2 = 3 -1(FSP) [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]1 lvl: 4 = 1 -1(FSP) +1 (INT) +3(FSB)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]please[/COLOR]

[/sblock]

[sblock=Description]Ernestine was born to a small farm family. Being unfit to work in the fields with her father and older brother, she instead studied everyday. After a few years, her parents noticed that she had a touch of magic about her, and sent her to magic school at the age of 9.

However, the school her parents sent her to was really a school for war training, sponsored by Vester's Reavers. Instead of training to improve society, she instead learned how to use her spells to take back Farshaw. She proved the best at summoning magic, and her spell focus switched to that. 

At the age of 17, she finally got a taste of real combat, as her spell practice was needed, and has been serving the Reavers since then. However,after 4 years, Ernestine was growing tired of the looting, the treachery, and the secrets. With the information that Vester left something at his old base in Nandirly, Ernestine sets off on a new adventure... (part I wish to change.
[/sblock]

[sblock=swaps]
Familiar for Rapid Summoning
Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning
Focused Specialist: Give up 3 Schools and 1 spell per day per spell level and gain 3 Specialist Spells per spell level
[/sblock]


----------



## jackslate45

Dragonwriter said:


> FWIW, these are available in Unearthed Arcana and the SRD.



  Up until a few days ago that is all I had access to lol.  Good old SRD.



HolyMan said:


> @jackslate45 I am ready to introduce your character and start a little combat are you reay for an update to your characters background and what they have been doing?
> HM
> _




Edit:Background updated.  I was wrong


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Sorry ghostcat if you think you need more hp you can take toughness at 6th lvl but I would rather you play up the rolls you get. Besides if you get max the next cpuple lvls it will even out.
> 
> HM
> _



Chance would be a fine thing. I've more chance of winning the lottery. Hit dice don't like me  But I reckon that the chance of getting all 1s or 2s is about even


----------



## Myth and Legend

Toughness? Really? You get 7 feats total by level 20 and you would waste one for 3 hp? He is crippled enough by playing a Battle Sorcerer. I suggest getting Items of + Con or casting Bear's Endurance (out of a wand or scroll).

jackslate45: Will you be going for battlefield control in addition to summon spam?


----------



## jackslate45

Myth and Legend said:


> Toughness? Really? You get 7 feats total by level 20 and you would waste one for 3 hp? He is crippled enough by playing a Battle Sorcerer. I suggest getting Items of + Con or casting Bear's Endurance (out of a wand or scroll).
> 
> jackslate45: Will you be going for battlefield control in addition to summon spam?




That was the plan yes.

Edit:  I should say that my knowledge of 3.5 is very small.  My friend helped me with my character, so he said yes when I asked him


----------



## HolyMan

Just "role"-play jackslate45 no need to "roll"-play.

@ ML -  first time Trinham goes to -2HP we will see what other feat would have help out. LOL

HM
_


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hmm. Well considering we are in a low magic setting... Extend spell? To extend that Bear's Endurance lol I'd have said Craft something but Sorcs don't make good crafters. I could make Lora a crafter though, we'll see.

BTW what would have happened if she had accepted outright?


----------



## HolyMan

She would have been put on the spot when she watched the army leave for the war (along with her brother). And then... (well not telling as that could still happen, ).

HM
_


----------



## ghostcat

*Key To Victory*

HM. Is Trinham 4th or 5th level at the current time. As his L5 updates have yet to be approved.


----------



## HolyMan

Strange I posted they were way back I guess it didn't take maybe? Sorry he is lvl5 I have him listed as such in the combat post also there was something else... ....

Oh Moggins HP you can roll those also maybe IC will like him better than Trinham 

HM
_


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Strange I posted they were way back I guess it didn't take maybe? Sorry he is lvl5 I have him listed as such in the combat post also there was something else... ....
> 
> Oh Moggins HP you can roll those also maybe IC will like him better than Trinham
> 
> HM
> _






> Familiars
> 
> _Hit Points_
> 
> The familiar has one-half the master’s total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.




Or are you saying Moggins is so disgusted with his master's hit dice rolls that he has insisted on having his own.


----------



## HolyMan

Hmmm probably he is but oh well I was sure I saw HP?? listed for Moggins.

Maybe it was something else I saw then. He should be alright with a +16 Hide skill 

HM
_


----------



## HolyMan

Combat totally updated now. In case some of you caught me in mid edit. 

HM


----------



## jackslate45

Doggy tank!  Hold that line!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Am I correct in that PF now has Undead able to be critted?


----------



## HolyMan

yes and I didn't roll an attack as he will be gone next round that Rapid Summoning is very handy to bad the duration sucks. You have a couple more though. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Am I correct in that PF now has Undead able to be critted?




Didn't see this looks like we were posting at the same time. Yes they got rid of undead can not be critted for PF. I not sure what I wish to do, technically you could crit a skeleton. You do enough damage and it loses a limb and you don't take away it's two claw attacks but it would be a serious wound none the less.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Nov 16th - Nov 30th*



		Code:
	

Player                       XP
jackslate45                 130
Fangor the Fierce           100
Lughart                      90
ghostcat                    280
Aldern Foxglove              85
Myth and Legend             260
Dragonwriter                440


*CONGRATS to Lughart for reaching Level 2  *

Please do your lvl up and we will see about an "adrenaline surge" during combat to help out.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry to say but I will not be able to post for the next three weeks. And I hate leaving you all in the middle of combat but with the way I do XP my idea for a guest DM just would heap alot of backlog work on me. So I wish to just let the threads remain where they are for now.

When I get back from my forced seclusion from the web, I will be rewarding everyone XP for the entire month of DEC on the 31st. For your patience in addition to what you earn from posting after we restart. 

Please take this time off to go over your characters as I see some of you have your level ups posted but not added to you sheet.

Happy gaming and watch out for zombie hoards they can be worse than hydras sometimes.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Hey everyone I am back and almost caught up (except over at the LPF, man that place exploded!).

For this game I wish to wait till the first to continue all the threads. I will be looking over characters and have a few other topics in my head, and will be posting all of them in the morning.

I haven't been idle and need to go over my notes first.

A quick who is about will also help.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

Duke's Irregular Trinham Woods reporting, sir.


----------



## jackslate45

Summoner Ernestine, out of spells but here


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Aver reporting, ready to continue his brush with death.


----------



## HolyMan

And undeath too. 

If we can get you through a couple more rounds and to a lvl up you will get your adrenaline surge (i.e. the hp you gain for that lvl) till then...

*DEFENSE* boom boom *DEFENSE *

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Still here, on vacation now, but should be able to post almost daily.


----------



## HolyMan

Great to hear FtF I have big plans for Mal and don't want to lose Aaron in WotBS either.

ML and DW are left hmmm... both in duets to strange.

And Lughart whose with the rest of you.

I think I can start with revising my HR's and going over some other stuff soon.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

I'm about, no need to worry. The 1st of the year sounds OK to me.

And if you look at Myth's status, it boils down to "slow/no posting through holidays". Which is par for the course with most people around here.

Glad to see you're back, HM.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks DW still had a topic I wish to start (let me find my note pad and copy paste in what I have so far). I thought we could discuss it a little and it need not be resolved before we start up again we can play and talk at the same time.

Ok here goes.

While on my forced hiatus I'm sure you all know that the progression of Off to War(OtW) was at the forefront of my thinking and writing. I thought about what had gone before and what I would like to do in the future. But one thing kept nagging at me.

That was the flow of the game coming back from everyone else. We all know the overall story (Invasion by a nation of elves called the Treylor) and that the PC's are marching towards a confrontation with an enemy army. But without the little hints you get from reading a story I think the flow is messed up.

You know how that some writers put in a page or two of what is going on in relation to the story but doesn't deal with the characters and where they are or what they are doing. They just write a little insight giving you the reader a better understanding to make the story flow better.

I think I may need to do something like this. And was wondering if anyone thought it a good or bad ideal. What I think is truly missing is the "why" are the Treylor invading. I have given little hints starting with the Key to Victory(K2V), but it is not the same as knowing for sure. I wish to make this as enjoyable as possible for everyone playing and those lurkers just out looking for a good read. 

Was thinking of adding stories and tales or histories, but I think these could be played off as untrue or misinterpreted so do you the player truly believe them. And also I could change something and say "Hey they lied." But how would you the player know that they did lie unless you had a little inside knowledge. I don't know was thinking of posting some stories here and there allowing you all to read them and give you a better insight to the story from the otherside of the coin.

Thoughts?

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

While I wouldn't be averse to the idea, I'm also not jumping for joy at the thought. In my opinion, not knowing why the Treylor are doing this is alright for me. 

(And there's the possible issue of separating OOC from IC knowledge. Not saying it will happen, as our group seems very good about that sort of thing, just that it could happen, even accidentally.)


----------



## HolyMan

I think that was the only thing holding me back before. (Keeping OOC knowledge seperate from IC knowledge.) 

But you are correct I think we have a good group of players here. My main thing is to keep it fun for all of you. I wouldn't out right tell you all what the reason is, I would play it up (you know me ). But I was thinking of posting some goings on over in the Treylor kingdom having you see what they are thinking/feeling. So as to add to the pleasure of the game.

Way back when ML stated it was odd that the Reygurians have pikemen in the main body of the army. I have planned along time now for that, and perhaps a story about why would help enhance the game for you the players. So when your characters discovery the reason behind it, it would be an OH! I see now like moment.

HM
_


----------



## HolyMan

Ok a short hour and 20 till a New Year and a New Start.

First at Lughart. Cedric's Level ups are approved but please add to your sblock the class you took a lvl in (just for easy bookkeeping if down the road you multiclass).

I will be posting at midnight everyones XP. Then update the threads. 

Happy New Year everyone hope it is a great as this past one. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Dec 1st - Dec 31st*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                             XP[/U]
jackslate45                       500
Aldern Foxglove                   500
Lughart                           750
Fangor the Fierce                 750
Dragonwriter                    1,000
Myth and Legend                 1,000
ghostcat                        1,250


*CONGRATS!! Dragonwriter and Myth and Legend for reaching 5th Level!!*

*HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!*

HM


----------



## HolyMan

K2V all updated and it is the top of the 4th round, I am ready to jump back in and hope with the XP rewards that Aver and Ernestine might get an adrenaline boost should the fight go on past the 15th. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> *CONGRATS!! Dragonwriter and Myth and Legend for reaching 5th Level!!*




Excellent! I see in Cedric's level-up post, he used the die roller here. Shall we all start doing so? Also, there are no trades I'm making this level, all by the book. But just for reference, here's the block so you can okay it, HM.

[sblock=Jareth Level 5 Changes]
Jareth Level-up.

HP increase in attached die roll (d8+2).
BAB increases to +5.
Learn 1 2nd-level spell (Scorching Ray) and gain 2 base 2nd-level spell slots, with extra 1 slot for high INT.
Gain Quick Cast 1/day class feature (cast any spell known as a Swift action).
Gain 8 skill points (2 base +2 house rule +3 INT +1 human): Concentration +1 (total 10), Knowledge (arcana) +1 (total 11), Ride +3 (total 10) Sense Motive +1 (total 8), Spellcraft +1 (total 15), Tumble +1 (total 11).
[/sblock]




> *HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!*
> 
> HM




And to you as well!


----------



## HolyMan

Update tonight in all three of these games. 

Sorry I didn't get to it today. RL came over and bit me and stole a couple hours out of my day and now I am work bond.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

All updated 

Getting gritty so my writing reflects this.

@FtF I have delayed as you requested just post your action and when you wish it to take place.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

5th level WOOHO! Fly, here we come!

HM I'm warning you the logistics will change very much wtih Fly and Invisibility available to us.

Should I hold off on the lvlup post for after Lora's training day?


----------



## HolyMan

LVL ups are good than DW sorry I got distracted and forgot to mention it. You should start rolling here and just use your level up post for HP That should keep track of it.

ML I have a lot I wish to discuss with you about your character, spells, and the over all campagin. Please do your lvl up and we will work it into your game.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Heads up less than 24 hours till XP and my advancing of the current combat round.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Jan 1st - Jan 15th*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                           XP[/U]
ghostcat                        200
jackslate45                      50
Lughart                          60
Fangor the Fierce                50
Aldern Foxglove                  15
Dragonwriter                    650
Myth and Legend                  50


*Congrats to Fangor the Fierce for reaching 3rd LVL*

hope you get your lvl up in in time to use it against the zombies.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Level up?!?!?!?!  WOOHOO!!!  (starts looking through the books...)


----------



## Myth and Legend

HolyMan said:


> LVL ups are good than DW sorry I got distracted and forgot to mention it. You should start rolling here and just use your level up post for HP That should keep track of it.
> 
> ML I have a lot I wish to discuss with you about your character, spells, and the over all campagin. Please do your lvl up and we will work it into your game.
> 
> HM



After some deliberation I think I should just drop this game HM. My style of playing is not suited for your style of DMing and I'm erratic in my posting here. It'd be best If I don't drag the game down and plus I am trying to devote less time on Internet and more time on actual writing and reading. Have fun and good luck from me!


----------



## HolyMan

Ok things are looking up for the group. Or perhaps the dice gods are lying in wait. 

Ok a few things. Well two 

1) Let me know as soon as you are ready with the LVL up FtF not sure what you will be gaining but wish to have it RP'ed 

2) Lughart sorry I changed your move but from my count that was 5 AoO (two from not prone zombies) and you couldn't reach that spot due to the corner. From where I placed Cedric he still caught four in the blast (using fan template). And no need to worry about AoO from the zombie as it wasted it on your moving.

Plus I liked playing Far there for a minute. 







HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

ONly thing I would gain would be a feat, spider climb, new draconic aura and improved BAB.  Nothing special.. but I set it up to where if things hit the fan, he's climbing to the ceiling if needed...


----------



## HolyMan

Zombies got you climbing the walls FtF 

BTW everyone my mapping is improving (as it had nowhere to go but up). And I will need pics of everyone's character who doesn't have one yet posted in the RG.

If you have no time to browse around I have been "collecting" token pics for NPCs and monsters so I could have something for you if you need help.

XP in 8 days for all those not keeping track. Post up. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Switching to MapTool or something?

Anyway, cross-posting Jareth's picture (as close as I could get) between here and the RG. Jareth doesn't use spear or shield, but it works.


----------



## HolyMan

That works great for Jareth 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Is it just me or do we seem to have lost (more) players? Nearly a week since the combat update, and only ghostcat, Lughart and myself have posted actions.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Just posted, but Aver's been in a rather awkward position...  The magic missile taking down one of the zombies over him - thank you kindly btw  - just about made it worth while to make a bid to escape.  I just hope it works and I don't loose my familiar.


----------



## HolyMan

[MENTION=95784]jackslate45[/MENTION] Am in the middle of updating but not done yet you may post an action for Ernestine if you wish.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

And updated .... shoo that took a long time.

Perhaps I should have people post in init order. LOL all that I target this guy but then they are dead before that by somebody who posted two days later gets real confusing.

And I had to give the familiars there time to shine.

jackslate45 you said yo will be gone till SUN?!?  Darn I have big RP plans for your character and Tira remember you aren't suppose to be where you are.

And I'm not sure how much you wish to divulge (after I pm you the info that is ).

It's ok I will sort it out. 

Hope we can RP this weekend and get a few more characters lvled up (AFg ).

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Well at least it can only go uphill from here for poor old Aver, this really was pretty much the worse type of encounter for him, lol.


----------



## HolyMan

Oh for what I have planned it might get worse for are poor little wizard-rogue. 

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Damn, I thought I had posted, but I guess I didn't push the right button.  Issues with ENWorld.

I will post Level UP here in a few hours, as I have another meeting to attend shortly.


----------



## jackslate45

HolyMan said:


> jackslate45 you said yo will be gone till SUN?!?  Darn I have big RP plans for your character and Tira remember you aren't suppose to be where you are.
> 
> And I'm not sure how much you wish to divulge (after I pm you the info that is ).
> 
> It's ok I will sort it out.
> 
> Hope we can RP this weekend and get a few more characters lvled up (AFg ).
> 
> HM




ya sorry.  Big convention and all.


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Damn, I thought I had posted, but I guess I didn't push the right button.  Issues with ENWorld.
> 
> I will post Level UP here in a few hours, as I have another meeting to attend shortly.




Right I saw you on I should have thought you might have a post not take. I am weary of having Malaroc speak to Jareth after the whole "Emma" thought conversation. And the things Mal thinks of the young hot head.

Hope you followed the duet I think me and DW really gave the character room to grow or at least simmer instead of boil.

No worries the combat is over enough that you won't need to escape via the ceiling. When you are ready I will check your lvl up.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Mal's level up:

3rd Level
+1BAB
+1 Reflex Save
Draconic Adaptation = Spider Climb at Will
New Draconic Aura = Toughness (DR1/Magic for each point of aura bonus)
New Feat = Still Looking... Combat Reflexes
4 Skill Points (+1 Bluff, +1 Craft, +2 Hide)


----------



## HolyMan

Looks good FtF.

Make sure to link the above post to your lvl up post for the HP. We should just roll on that RG post but no big D.

Looking at Dragon Shaman you get your breath weapon next lvl. Would like to start an RP of that right away as it would be fun. Some suggestions.

* Spitting and it hisses and burns on the ground.
* "Emma" had you on a certain diet and you have strayed a little, but later (when not starving in a cave LOL) you start back on it. 
* Feel like you want to puke all the time or stomach is always turning, aching. Don't worry you will feel better after your first 'release' of the acidic build up.  Oi heartburn!


HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Edited Character Sheet now with the updates.

As for the transition, I think acidic taste in mouth, everything tastes like it needs more spice, leading to him adding all kinds of spices to items with the heartburn thrown in as the result.  Eventually, he will start coughing, hacking up hissing bile from his 'newly acquired tastes' and eventually unleashing it at someone unawares.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Jan 16th - Jan 31st*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                          XP[/U]
jackslate45                    230
Dragonwriter                   575
Fangor the Fierce              355
Aldern Foxglove                250
ghostcat                       325
Lughart                        180


*CONGRATS to Aldern Foxglove or reaching LEVEL 2 *

And great job with the RP start everyone.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Random bored guy here, who is also more annoying then oranges, but don't youtube them, they are annoying 

anyways, I know you've said human only but I was wundering how a level neutral Lycanthrope would work? (Level ajustemnts/animal levels taken at level up, stats/special abilitys broken up into blocks, Level adjustment buy off, if allowed, would have to account for non-acquired Level adjustment to determine lowest level to by them off, etc)
Also, not playing on the character going "Blah! I can turn into an animal/animal hybrid!" at any opportunity (such an action would be to avoid death, when he knows no one is around and that he wont be missed, etc. and by the same note; if he was found while in animal form, hewould likly stay in it to avoid being found out.)

as for character consent I was thinking a young character who, prewar, worked as a courier and moonlighted as a trail guide with a knack for just appering out of nowhere.
as for basic character stat theme, frail and very, very, quick with, again, a knack for just popping out of the woodwork, or into it; and lowish combative ability.
(sure, latter on, after getting all his Lycanthrope levels, he could fluf up into a more competent fighter, but he knows about how much the guys in Reygur sell Lycanthrope fur for... and knows about the part were said Lycanthrope would have to be alive during the skinning... he is perfectly willing to act as a general scout/messenger, and posable flanker, and avoid being the prize of the day by seeking glory... and then there's the part about him not being some kind of stone cold killer who revels in combat.)

End random ramblazation!

Addon: btw, what dos "Humans get know ability adjustment" mean? dos that mean we can go and give our characters a +2 in one stat for a -2 in an other?


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Hmm, need to look at the level up process.  But its a level of wizard - Elf Generalist.  In place of familiar I believe we agreed I could take back my feat from 1st level - used to get a familiar.  Otherwise I think its pretty straight forward.


----------



## Spade

Hi!

I'm entirely new to this, but it should be fun anyways. 

I'm still thinking up what my character should be, but I figured I should say "hi" first.


----------



## HolyMan

Zerith said:


> End random ramblazation!
> 
> Addon: btw, what dos "Humans get know ability adjustment" mean? dos that mean we can go and give our characters a +2 in one stat for a -2 in an other?





			
				Spade said:
			
		

> Hi!
> 
> I'm entirely new to this, but it should be fun anyways.
> 
> I'm still thinking up what my character should be, but I figured I should say "hi" first.




Hi to both of you and as for know - it should be no ability adjustment - 

Welcome to EnWorld, if the two of you were to make characters I would through you into the main camp until the current over adventure were complete as it is hard getting alot of humans into the elven lands. But in camp I may have you do some interesting related things to the over all campagin and of course meet Dellex. 

If you wish to be a lycanthrope later that would be a better way of going about it. You could play that you are cursed, just not willing to use the ability to shapechange for fear of getting caught. And later when we have it worked out you could use whatever crunch is decided for you. 

Hope to see you about the threads.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

That sounds like what we did AFg just let me know when you are done deciding on stuff and I'll give Aver a look over.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Quick suggestion on the whole lycanthrope thing:

Rather than opening up the racial HD+LA can-o-worms and the stupefying extra abilities were-anythings get, what about using the Shapeshift Druid variant from PHB2? 

You could play it up as a racial ability, rather than a magic/class ability... Maybe re-skin the other forms (like Aerial, Forest Avenger and Elemental Fury, though the last two are a LONG way off) as tapping into a more powerful/primal/elemental/primordial form (or even a strange, long-forgotten hybrid in the case of Aerial).

It's easier, gives you variety and gives other class features and avoids the nightmare of Racial Classes.  EDIT: Oh yeah, and it avoids the Racial Alignment most Lycanthropes deal with.

Or, as HM seems in a generous mood, you could maybe try to get Shifter (Eberron Campaign Setting) OK'd. They're were-descended humans who retain a little of their forebears animalistic qualities.


----------



## Zerith

oh I don't plan on him being unable to; its just he won't have str +6, Dex +8 and con +4 in addition to sprint, trip, low light and sent off bat, or most of the other goodies the Lycans get.
(and to justify being able to use a humanoid shape with natural weapons and an animal form [Cheetah, yesh, I r odd], I was just going to give him a tempory feat that would get replaced latter when he got the requirement to use his animal/hybrid form with out the feat. I figure that would happen by 3th ECL.)


----------



## HolyMan

So you wish only the fluff to turn into a creature/hybird and none of the crunch?

But even changing would have a little advantage so maybe replacing a few feats for an SLA #/day to start. I don't think you would need all the abilities (unless yo really wanted them) so you wouldn't be +3 ECL.

DW had some great suggestions and I am going to look into them after I catch up around here.

HM


----------



## Zerith

... Snipped ;
As for the cheese, Shifters I don't think would work: he is meant to be easily written off as an energetic youth, and otherwise not stand out when not getting from A to B to Z much to fast for a normal human on foot (he is going to start with 50 or 60 base speed, yesh, Very, very fast…) and shifters stand out, a lot.

As for a druid, they actually clash with him a bit, he is actually fairly naive; I’ve never think of druids as naïve. (for example, he is going to have a low will save; Druids’ best save is a will save.)

And I never got the whole Racial Alignment for lycanthropes: it says right there that there that their Racial Alignment is assigned arbitrarily. And the proof? Lions would fit definitively under LG given the theme while Hyenas would be CE. Lions eat Hyena cubs, and Vica versa, and (male) Lions will kill Lion cubs that are not their own. (can also point out that Wolfs act a lot more lawfully then Bears or Tigers but this is getting off topic) so yesh, this part of Lycanthropes is just a bit of "Whaaaah????" to me

And as for Racel class levels being a bad thing, depending on the Lycanthrope, you’re getting 4-6 ability scores per a level, the semi wizard BAB can easily get countered, hit chance wise, by the raised Str/Dex. and there no bonus attacks with animal form so it get felt even less there
(Rats get 8 per a level, Wolfs get 5, Dire wolfs get 4, Tigers get 3 and 2 3ths, Cheetahs get 6)

Also, forgot to ask, are flaws allowed?

… Sniped again!!! O_O

I do want the perks ( wouldn't? XD) but I also know that starting out at ECL 4 or 7 is just unreasonable given the start out level of the RP and how it’s set up, so instead I’m proposing having my character grow into its race levels/level adjustment so that is ECL is earned and not just a “I want it! Give me now! Ger!” hand out of lame B***ieness. That said, I’m not really attached to getting the fluff one way or another. But yes, depending on the options, as long as it can walk like a Lycan, shapshift like a lycan it will work as a lycan for me.


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry we are not playing with flaws.

So you would be willing to play that you are a lycan though you would have no abilities till you hit a lvl that would be equal to your class lvl + 3??

If that's the case it could be worked around it would just take a while (maybe a year/year and a half real time). But this game I plan for the long haul so is up to you.

HM


----------



## Zerith

ya, more or less, but as I said before I would like to use a feat, that would be replaced when the character gets the ability through a level up, to grant the shape shifting ability.

And now that your saying no flaws I might as well ask if you're allowing traits.


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry a no to that too, I allow flexibility so you get the character you want without all the extra's needed.

You say a feat swap for wild shaping? What class is it you wish to play btw?

HM


----------



## Zerith

rats, there went quick then... >_<
as for class, I was thinking rogue, although I would like to get some speed bonuses; think I could exchange sneak attacks for movement boosts or would that be to powerful?

And I take it that the temp shape shifter feat is ok then?


----------



## HolyMan

Work on a build with it and let see what your thinking of. Here's some things you could swap:

* For +10' base movement - switch out trapfinding or sneak attack damage at 1st lvl (may take only once)

* For SLA [polymorph-self only(animal here - only)]: 2/day; caster lvl equal to character lvl - for a feat I guess, you are limited to yourself and one animal(medium or small) only and the 1 minute per lvl also makes it limited.

See what you can do with that I have chores hope to come back and see what you come up with.

HM


----------



## Zerith

So is that +10 speed for sneak damage as a one of or can it be traded every odd level, were sneak attack is attainable? Now, onto long windedness! Brain fart, Flatulence!



The just of the Lycanthrope level ups I was going to go with was



Lycanthrope(Werechetah), Template

Adds the Shapechanger subtype.





Animal levels(cheetah)

Hit Dice: 8

*Level   BAB     Fort    Ref     Will    Special*  [FONT=&quot]
1st     +0      +2      +2      +0      Low-light vision, Sent, Str +2*, Dex +4.[/FONT]*
  [FONT=&quot]2nd     +1      +3      +3      +0      Sprint, Str +2*, Dex +2*, Con +2[/FONT]*
  [FONT=&quot]3rd     +2      +3      +3      +1      Trip, Str +2*, Dex +2*, Con +2*
[*In animal or hybrid form only]

Hide(Dex), Liste(Wis), Move Silently(Dex), Spot(Wis).
[Skill points: 2 +2(Hoserule) +Int Modifier][/FONT]

Level adjustments: 

The first level adjustment grants:
+2 Wisdom. 
-
  lycanthropic empathy(Ex): In any form, lycanthropes can communicate and empathize with normal or dire animals of their animal form. This gives them a +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing the animal’s attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as “friend,” “foe,” “flee,” and “attack.”
  -
Alternate form(Su): A lycanthrope can assume the form of a specific animal (as indicated in its entry). It does not assume the ability scores of the animal, but instead adds its physical ability score modifiers* to its own ability scores. A lycanthrope also can assume a bipedal hybrid form with prehensile hands and animalistic features while adding the physical ability score modifiers to its own.**
[*the physical ability score modifiers are attained through Lycanthrope class levels]
[**I’m going to drop the other possible Lycanthrope racial level variant in a blanket below.]
-
+2 natural armor bonus in any form.


  The second level adjustment grants:
Iron Will as a bonus feat.
Damage reduction 5/silver (in animal or hybrid form only).

The third level adjustment grants:
  Damage reduction becomes 10/silver (in animal or hybrid form only).
Curse of lycanthropy (in animal or hybrid form only).
  [Only Natural lycanthropes can attain a 3th level adjustment or its benefits]



[Sblock= Lycanthrope racial level variant WIP] Lycanthrope(Werecheetah), Racial Hitdice

[FONT=&quot]

Hit dice: 8

*Level           BAB             Fort             Ref              Will             Special*[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1st                   +0                   +2                  +2                  +0                Str +2, Dex +2, Sent, Lowlight-V., Trip[/FONT]  2nd             +1                +3                +3                +0                Con +2, Dex +2
  3rd                 +2                  +3                 +3                 +1                Str +2, Dex +2, Sprint
  4th                 +2                   +4                 +4                 +1                Str +2, Dex +2
  5th                  +2    +4                 +4                 +1                Con +2, Dex +2, Lycanthrope bonus feat
  6th                  +3                   +5                 +5                 +2                Str +2, Dex +2
  7th                 +4                   +5                 +5                 +2                Con +2, Dex +2, Blinding Bye
  8th                 +4                   +6                 +6                 +2                Str +2, Con +2
  9th                  +4                   +6                 +6                 +3                Str +2, Dex +2, Lycanthrope bonus feat
  10th             +5                   +7  +7                 +3                Str +2, Con +2, Dire Werecheetah.

  Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level, x4 at first level)
Hide(Dex), Listen(Wis), Move Silently(Dex), Spot(Wis), Survival(Wis).

  Ability score modifiers are accumulative, but only apply to animal and hybrid forms.*
[*the ability to change into the proper animal and hybrid form is dependent on the character having attained either it’s first level adjustment or the Swift Shapeshift feat]


[sblock=Scent (Ex)]
  This extraordinary special quality allows a creature to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

  The creature can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range.

  When a creature detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a move action to note the direction of the scent.

  Whenever the creature comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature pinpoints the source’s location.

  A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 (no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). This DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

  Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

  False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.[/sblock]

[sblock=Low-Light Vision (Ex)]
  A creature with low-light vision can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of shadowy illumination. It retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. A spellcaster with low-light vision can read a scroll as long as even the tiniest candle flame is next to her as a source of light.[/sblock]

Trip (Ex): A Werecheetah that hits with a natural attack can attempt to trip the opponent as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the Werecheetah.

Sprint (Ex): Once per hour, a Werecheetah can move ten times its normal speed when it makes a charge.

Blinding Bye(Ex): The Werecheetah may sprint twice per an hour and can expend one of the two uses as a run action. Additionally, when sprinting, any creature attempting a attack of opportunity on the Werecheetah must pas a reflex save, the DC is 1/10 the distance the Werecheetah moved during its sprint: attacks of opportunity with readied weapons bypass the reflex save.

Dire Werecheetah(Su): The Werecheetah can assume the form of a Dire Wolf. It does not assume the ability scores of the animal, but instead adds it’s physical ability score modifiers to its own ability scores as normal. The Werecheetah also can assume a Dire bipedal hybrid form with prehensile hands and animalistic features. Both forms are large and may be used in place of The Werecheetah’s original animal and hybrid forms at its option.[/Sblock]

… Werecheetah sounds to weird, but it's so much shorter then cheetah lycanthrope >_<


----------



## Spade

Um, I have a question I'm not sure on regarding feat prerequisites.
Okay, so since I'm going to be a Human Fighter, I have my First Level Feat, My Racial Bonus Feat, and my Fighter Bonus Feat to select - As well as the +2/+2, but that's not relevant to my question.

I was wondering if it was possible to get Dodge with the Level Feat, then Mobility - Which needs Dodge - with my Racial, then get Spring Attack with my Fighter Bonus - Which needs both Dodge and Mobility.

Does this work, or do I have to separate them into levels? Meaning, do I have to grab the prerequisite at a previous level than the next thing - In this case getting Dodge now, then Mobility at level 2 and then Spring Attack at level 3?


----------



## Dragonwriter

Spade said:


> Um, I have a question I'm not sure on regarding feat prerequisites.
> Okay, so since I'm going to be a Human Fighter, I have my First Level Feat, My Racial Bonus Feat, and my Fighter Bonus Feat to select - As well as the +2/+2, but that's not relevant to my question.
> 
> I was wondering if it was possible to get Dodge with the Level Feat, then Mobility - Which needs Dodge - with my Racial, then get Spring Attack with my Fighter Bonus - Which needs both Dodge and Mobility.
> 
> Does this work, or do I have to separate them into levels? Meaning, do I have to grab the prerequisite at a previous level than the next thing - In this case getting Dodge now, then Mobility at level 2 and then Spring Attack at level 3?




First off, welcome. Both to the game and to EnWorld! 

Now, on to an answer for your question, from a Rules standpoint. You can take Dodge and Mobility at the outset, as long as you have that 13 DEX. Spring Attack, though, will have to wait. If you take a slightly closer look at Spring Attack's Prerequisite line, it also notes "Base Attack Bonus +4". You've got to hit that BAB +4 before you can snag the feat.
Luckily, the Fighter has the high BAB and will get you a bonus feat at 4th-level (with the 4 BAB), which can be used for Spring Attack.

In your earlier post, you said you were "entirely new to this". Is that to say you've only just started with 3.5 or are new to Play-by-Post?


----------



## Spade

Dragonwriter said:


> First off, welcome. Both to the game and to EnWorld!
> 
> Now, on to an answer for your question, from a Rules standpoint. You can take Dodge and Mobility at the outset, as long as you have that 13 DEX. Spring Attack, though, will have to wait. If you take a slightly closer look at Spring Attack's Prerequisite line, it also notes "Base Attack Bonus +4". You've got to hit that BAB +4 before you can snag the feat.
> Luckily, the Fighter has the high BAB and will get you a bonus feat at 4th-level (with the 4 BAB), which can be used for Spring Attack.
> 
> In your earlier post, you said you were "entirely new to this". Is that to say you've only just started with 3.5 or are new to Play-by-Post?




Ah, okay, I see. Alright, so I'll just hold off on Spring Attack for the time being.

But I'm actually new to both, I've only barely even fiddled with D&D before. So I'm almost as new as can be, I guess? But everyone has to start somewhere.


----------



## HolyMan

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION] I don't see a build in there but it looks like you are asking to take the werecat as a class.  

I don't think I wish to get into all that. Allowing high DR's and attribute changes and such may throw the balance of this game off. I thought you wished the transforming to only be when alone and or necessary so it's crunch should be minimal and the RP high.

Also you would only be allowed to take the Fast Movement ability once. And it would be limited like that of the barbarian. Really just changing your Sneak Attack ability for the Barbarians and then you would always be a d6 behind as you advance that seems fair.

HM


----------



## Zerith

the main idea was play as a Lycanthrope from ECL 1 (start out) to ECL7+ (full Lycanthrope hit dice/LA, attaining DR 5 and 10 at ECL 5 and 7 respectively), but I could do something else: most of my characters are definitivly none human (I'm use to raw text RPs, still need to get my feet wet with D&D.) But I do have a clock/steamwork knight I could do from his pre-clock/steamwork beginning. But he would be an extra heavy fighter as opposed to a rogue.


----------



## HolyMan

This is an open class game, and I am willing to work on any character you wish to play. Just need to stay within the character gene rules. They are flexible enough that you will get want you want in the end. But just like any game in D&D you will not have it to start.

I believe in working the character through to get to be that hero you wish to play in the end.

HM


----------



## Zerith

ak, misunderstood what you meant, I'll try and get one up latter, but I think I need a nap for now, ttyl :3


----------



## Spade

Well, I think I've managed to work up a decent character - I didn't want to attempt anything terribly complex, this being my first time, and I hope I got all the details correct.


----------



## HolyMan

Not bad for your first attempt I have seen worse. And you will learn all the ways to clean up a post and such as you go.

Only thing crunch wise I see wrong is you have Reflex save listed as:

Reflex 2 + 0 = +2 and it should be

Reflex 0 + 2 = +2 

I haven't added up the equipment because it is to late in the evening for math, but I saw you took the trident that is a very irregular weapon and will fit in nicely.

A suggestion should you want it. Maybe to flesh the character out a little and make him a little bit better in combat. You could have in your background that your character didn't handle a sword very well but the "pitch fork like" weapon was well suited to him. And since you didn't do well with regular weapons you were put in with the irregulars.

So if you want I will allow you to lose Prof. with all Martial Weapons and swap it out for Prof. with Trident and any other Prof. you wish. 

Suggestions: Shield Specialization, Toughness, Weapon Focus, come to mind. You could start another tree and take Power Attack or Combat Expertise. 

Totally up to you but it would add a little fluff and crunch to the character at the same time.

Let me know and I will finish your review tomorrow.

HM


----------



## Spade

Oh, I hadn't even considered the pitchfork-trident thing, that's actually a very interesting idea. And yeah, the background is pretty bland, so I'll try to work on that. The sword thing is a good step towards that.

I'll also look at your suggestions closely, and I actually forgot about the swapping thing you allow people to do. 

Thanks for being pretty quick on the response.


----------



## HolyMan

NP Tue is my EnWorld day. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

it's obviously not finished, but this is the just of how I plan on the character starting out.
[sblock]Chaotic Neutral male Human Lycanthrope (cheetah) 

EXP: 0

Srt: 13   +1
Dex: 18 +4
Con: 12 +1
Int: 14   +2
Wis: 8    -1
Car: 12  +1



  Size: Medium
Type: Humanoid (Shapechanger).
  Age: 16
  Height: 5' 6"
  Weight: 118 lb
  Eyes: Orangish Amber
  Hair: Light brown
  Skin: Light tan

Total Hit Points: 7
  [FONT=&quot]
*Armor Class:* 14 = 10 + 4 [dexterity]
*Touch AC:* 14
*Flat-footed:* 10


*Initiative modifier:* + 4 = + 4 [dexterity]
*Fortitude save:* + 1 = 0 [base] + 1 [Constitution]
*Reflex save:* + 6 = 2 [base] + 4 [dexterity]
*Will save:* - 1 = 0 [base] - 1 [wisdom]
*Attack (handheld):* + 1 = 0 [base] + 1 [strength]
*Attack (missile):* + 4 = 0 [base] + 4 [dexterity]
*Grapple check: + 1 = *0 [base] + 1 [strength]

*Weapon proficiency:* All simple, [/FONT]plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short swor[FONT=&quot]d

Light load: 50 lb. or less
Medium load: 51-100 lb.
Heavy load: 101-150 lb.
Lift over head: - 150 lb.
Lift off ground: - 300 lb.
Push or drag: - 750 lb.

*Languages: *Common, Sylvan, Giant.

[sblock=Feats]
[sblock=Fleet of foot] the +10' speed one that must be taken at level one, don't know why the same feat name (one that is not even all that generic sounding,) is used for two different feats[/sblock]
Acrobatic _(house rule bonus feat)_
[sblock=Natural shapeshifter]
Benefit: allows the character to assume the form of a specific animal (cheetah) as a Supernatural ability. It does not assume the ability scores of the animal, but instead adds (One times Animal hit dice)/3 of the animal’s physical ability score modifiers to its own ability scores. A lycanthrope also can assume a bipedal hybrid form with prehensile hands and animalistic features.

Special: replaced by another feat when the character attains Alternate Form[/sblock]
[/sblock][/FONT][/sblock]


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, Trinham's question in IC reminded me... You never did get around to listing whatever supplies were set aside for me at Harkon. Might need them now.


----------



## jackslate45

Why do I get the feeling Ern may die by party mutiny...


----------



## Dragonwriter

jackslate45 said:


> Why do I get the feeling Ern may die by party mutiny...




Because you're not being up-front and everyone is suspicious of the person who just runs in with zombies chasing them and gets everyone into a fight that nearly kills them? 

Anyways, Jareth doesn't really trust you (he trusts all of... 3 or 4 people I can think of, plus the rest of his family), but he's not going to attack you. Unless you give him a reason to attack, like attacking him... 
He's more likely to say "we saved you, got you out of the caves... good bye and good luck" once we reach an exit where it's safe for you to leave.


----------



## jackslate45

Dragonwriter said:


> Because you're not being up-front and everyone is suspicious of the person who just runs in with zombies chasing them and gets everyone into a fight that nearly kills them?
> 
> Anyways, Jareth doesn't really trust you (he trusts all of... 3 or 4 people I can think of, plus the rest of his family), but he's not going to attack you. Unless you give him a reason to attack, like attacking him...
> He's more likely to say "we saved you, got you out of the caves... good bye and good luck" once we reach an exit where it's safe for you to leave.




Ern needed to learn to not be up-front.  Her background kinda forced her to be... Otherwise she be dead.

besides, feeling that the entire party can turn on you in a second is kinda scary, but fun as well...


----------



## Zerith

hmm, I just thought of five things

One, and just checking here, do speed modifiers, IE fleet of foot (if it is oked) and the speed boost 10'  traded for in exchange for the first d6 sneak attack, affect all a character's forms?

Two, I'm amusing that latter on, if I get a level of barbarian, I traded the rogue's first sneak dice for the barb's fast movement so that getting an other + 10' from the barb would be unavailable?

Three, is there any kind of light shapeshifter's armor?
Four, is there a lower end kind of shapeshifter's armor?
Five, can normal(ish) clothing be enchanted as armor?


----------



## HolyMan

[sblock=character]Chaotic Neutral male Human Lycanthrope (cheetah) 

EXP: 0

Srt: 13   +1
Dex: 18 +4
Con: 12 +1
Int: 14   +2
Wis: 8    -1
Car: 12  +1



  Size: Medium
Type: Humanoid (Shapechanger).
  Age: 16
  Height: 5' 6"
  Weight: 118 lb
  Eyes: Orangish Amber
  Hair: Light brown
  Skin: Light tan

Total Hit Points: 7
  [FONT=&quot]
*Armor Class:* 14 = 10 + 4 [dexterity]
*Touch AC:* 14
*Flat-footed:* 10


*Initiative modifier:* + 4 = + 4 [dexterity]
*Fortitude save:* + 1 = 0 [base] + 1 [Constitution]
*Reflex save:* + 6 = 2 [base] + 4 [dexterity]
*Will save:* - 1 = 0 [base] - 1 [wisdom]
*Attack (handheld):* + 1 = 0 [base] + 1 [strength]
*Attack (missile):* + 4 = 0 [base] + 4 [dexterity]
*Grapple check: + 1 = *0 [base] + 1 [strength]

*Weapon proficiency:* All simple, [/FONT]plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short swor[FONT=&quot]d

Light load: 50 lb. or less
Medium load: 51-100 lb.
Heavy load: 101-150 lb.
Lift over head: - 150 lb.
Lift off ground: - 300 lb.
Push or drag: - 750 lb.

*Languages: *Common, Sylvan, Giant.

[sblock=Feats]
[sblock=Fleet of foot] the +10' speed one that must be taken at level one, don't know why the same feat name (one that is not even all that generic sounding,) is used for two different feats[/sblock]
Acrobatic _(house rule bonus feat)_
[sblock=Natural shapeshifter]
Benefit: allows the character to assume the form of a specific animal (cheetah) as a Supernatural ability. It does not assume the ability scores of the animal, but instead adds (One times Animal hit dice)/3 of the animal’s physical ability score modifiers to its own ability scores. A lycanthrope also can assume a bipedal hybrid form with prehensile hands and animalistic features.

Special: replaced by another feat when the character attains Alternate Form[/sblock]
[/sblock][/FONT][/sblock]

I don't see a class in there but from some of the info it looks like rogue. Also I don't think I can approve the natural shapeshifter feat (main reason is I don't understand the ability stuff - but that's just me and my hatred of math). another reason is it looks unlimited and what does it mean by being replaced by another feat.

I would just take the SLA for now as it will give you what you wish to start and later we can see about adding to your character by either and an improved version of the SLA or allowing you to swap out rogue abilities for wildshaping. 

Actually a little thinking and you could swap out sneak attack for wild shaping if you really wished. 

With the following limits:
- one animal only (in this case cheetah)
- once per day per sneak attack given up to a max of 5 times/day
- lasts for 1 hour/2 character levels

That would be a close balanced, I believe and you would be allowed to take feats that have wild shaping as a pre req.

You would have all stats and abilities of a  cheetah 

Your other questions:
One - no all feats are replaced.
Two - correct they are the same type of bonus and do not stack
Three - not sure but could make it up this is D&D 
Four - see Three
Five - I would say clothing has an AC bonus of +0 so you could add to that if you really wished. But not by spells that say it improves armor bonus of "armor" because clothing doesn't fall into this category. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

The Natural shapeshifter feat, if used at level one the feat (or at any level before gaining animal hit dice)

Allows the character to
A: Turn into a hybread with claw/bite attacks
or
B: turn into its respective animal’s form, Thus acquiring natural attacks and, in the case of a cheetah, wolf, etc; 20’ more speed. (original base 30’ to 50’) but retains the character’s original stats

Also, until it acquires the benefits from the base Animal’s Racial hit dice, it dose Note gain any stat modes, special qualities, it also does not grant any feats, hit dice, etc. (anything not mentioned in the above examples is identical to the base creature’s normal form)
So while Natural shapeshifter is, presently, unlimited, the resulting animal form is weaker off bat, but once the character starts getting animal hit dice it starts getting stat bonuses in its animal and hybrid forms; the special qualities, as per normal Lycanthropes, are usable in all forms, but they are granted wholly by the animal hit dice and not this feat.

At the first animal hit dice the forms grant Str +2, and Dex +4 (1/3 the bonus)
At the second animal hit dice the forms grant Str +4, Dex +6, and Con +2 (2/3 the bonus)
At the third hit dice the forms grant Str +6, Dex +8, and Con +4 (the full bonus)
I’ll again note these bonuses are reliant on gaining the animal’s hit dice, so again, not gained simply by the feat itself.


  [FONT=&quot]
As for the replace aspect:  one of the things the first level adjustment gives is Alternate form. Alternate Form makes Natural shapeshifter redundant; they both do the same, exact, thing. So when the character gets Alternate form proper, Natural shapeshifter is, at the same time removed, and replaced by a new feat as level up.

The general idea with it is barrowing Alternate Form from the level adjustment will laying down a feat slot as the collateral. And when that level adjustment is attained the loan is more or less paid and the collateral given back (and thus replaced by another feat)

As I’ve said before, I plan on him being a full blooded Lycanthrope but I also know that just starting out as ECL 7 is, given the RP’s lay out, asinine, selfish, unfair, unsporting, and, let’s not forget, rude to anyone who has worked their way past level one.

__

And about one – Is this referring to feats as per wild shape or as per a Lycanthrope’s Alternate Form? (that the feat is based on)
And inset fast movement as class feature and not a feat? 

Also, if all feats are replaced by the animal's feats, would that not mean that the feat allowing the character to change back would also be removed for the duration of the wild shape?
--
Also, yep, rogue, whoops ^^;
[/FONT]


----------



## HolyMan

That seems a lot... I don't know complicated just to be able to transform once and a while. And I don't think you should start with the hybrid but later maybe get it. You won't even be transforming often so why two forms? to start.

@Spade given any thought to some alternate ideas for your PC?

I was also thinking he might not have trained in heavy armors and we could have him RPing that and gain the feat later (when you have heavy armor) and give you an extra feat now that you would have taken later.

HM


----------



## Spade

HolyMan said:


> @Spade given any thought to some alternate ideas for your PC?
> 
> I was also thinking he might not have trained in heavy armors and we could have him RPing that and gain the feat later (when you have heavy armor) and give you an extra feat now that you would have taken later.
> 
> HM




Yeah, I've been thinking on it but I was unusually busy the last two days, so I wasn't able to actually write anything as of yet.

Heavy Armor not being something he automatically has is another interesting idea, and I'm willing to work with that. But, what do you mean by extra feat? Like, I get another bonus feat for first level, or did you mean I just wont have to use a feat slot for the heavy armor at a later level? Either is fine with me, I'd just like to be sure.

Also, I want to say thanks for offering these good ideas. 

EDIT: Also, I looked at that crunch you said was wrong, and I just wanted to double check because it looks correct to me.

You said:


> Only thing crunch wise I see wrong is you have Reflex save listed as:
> 
> Reflex 2 + 0 = +2 and it should be
> 
> Reflex 0 + 2 = +2



But on looking at it, the character sheet I have going is set up with:


> *-Saves-*
> Fort: 3 + 2 = +5 (Mod + Class Base Save)
> Ref: 2 + 0 = +2 (Mod + Class Base Save)
> Will: 0 + 0 = +0 (Mod + Class Base Save)



Since the first number is the Ability Score Mod, and the second number is the Class Base, then it should be correct for Reflex to be "2 + 0 = +2" because the 2 comes from my Dex Mod and not the class base save (Fighter's only get +2 for Fort at first level).

I'm not entirely sure but I looked over the PhB to doublecheck and it SHOULD be right, but it's possible I'm having a derp moment and not noticing something.

EDITX2: Figured I'd go ahead and quote what I'm talking about so you don't have to go digging through the PHB to find it:


> Base Save Bonus: The two numbers given in this column on
> Table 3–1 apply to saving throws. Whether a character uses the first
> (good) bonus or the second (poor) bonus depends on his or her class
> and the type of saving throw being attempted. For example, fighters
> get the lower bonus on Reflex and Will saves and the higher bonus
> on Fortitude saves, while rogues get the lower bonus on Fortitude
> and Will saves and the higher bonus on Reflex saves.


----------



## Zerith

I don't think strait, I don't think laterally, I think diagonally, so I fail to see how it is compacted ;

As for the two forms, Fluff? He’s a young Lycanthrope but he is still a full blooded lycanthrope that is a, again young, adult and I think he would be able to assume any given form, maybe not to its full might, but able to amuse it none the less. That said, I would not mind losing the natural attacks till ECL 2 or 3(at ECL3 he should have Alternate From proper) this part is mostly for fluff.

And I’d still like that clarification for the answer to my first of five questions
[sblock=As below]And about one – Is this referring to feats as per wild shape or as per a Lycanthrope’s Alternate Form? (that the feat is based on)
And inset fast movement as class feature and not a feat?

Also, if all feats are replaced by the animal's feats, would that not mean that the feat allowing the character to change back would also be removed for the duration of the wild shape?[/sblock]


----------



## Spade

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] - I made some changes to the sheet I posted in the RG thread, hopefully it's better now in terms of format/fluff.

I'm still working on thinking up some flavor, but I did add in the things you suggested since they were pretty good ideas. 

Let me know if there's anything I screwed up while changing it/you have any more ideas.


----------



## HolyMan

[MENTION=6669366]Spade[/MENTION] I see you are on do you have time to talk over your character I am about to give him the *red ink*.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Character go over...*

Name: Gareth Silander
Alignment: Neutral Good
Class: Fighter
Race: Human
Age: 16
Gender: Male

[sblock=-Appearance-]
Sporting vibrant red hair and green eyes, the former being perpetually  in a state of bed-head, Gareth looks younger than he is – An impression  only further reinforced by his five-foot-four height and lean build, as  well as his spirited, almost childish disposition. Even though he seems  like he shouldn't be serving as a soldier, paying close attention would  reveal things such as callous and the occasional faded scars on his  hands – Minute, easily missed details that show Gareth to be as  qualified as the other drafted soldiers.[/sblock]

*I like the red hair and green eyes I am about to make that the typical look of all Peshman.* 

[sblock=-Background-]
Born and raised on a farm as the second child of four, Gareth's life was  a simple one – So long as he and his siblings took care of their share  of the work, they were allowed to run around as they pleased for the  most part. Although it was safe from most major dangers, a small forest  on the edge of their property did pose some danger thanks to the  creatures that lurked inside it. Because of this, the siblings were all  taught how to defend themselves – Though they lacked proper weapons to  do so with, instead using what suitable tools they had around as  substitutes. Despite the occasional encounter with a wolf or some other  creature from the forest attempting to snatch some of the livestock,  their lives were peaceful and enjoyable.


 When Gareth reached the age of adulthood, like many others during times  such as this, he was drafted and sent out for basic training. The youth  performed admirably, quickly picking up the nuances of proper footwork  and reading ones opponent. However, while he was skilled with a shield,  none of the weapons the trainers tried to get him to use seemed to work  out. He was horrendous with the Sword or Axe, though the Spear felt a  bit closer to home. It wasn't until they gave up on trying the regular  weapons and dug up some of the uncommon ones that he found something  that worked – A Trident.


 The Trident was remarkably similar to the pitchforks he had often used  back home, in chores and often being the tool of choice for driving off  any beasts from the forest. Although it was a bit old and worn from  neglect, having sat along with the other rarely used weapons in the  armory for some time, Gareth found it to be his perfect weapon of  choice. The trouble he had been having with practice sessions now  resolved, since he now had a weapon he could use skillfully, he managed  to go from a “clumsy” recruit to one of their above-average ones.   [/sblock]

*Great background we can add to it as we play.*

*-Stats-*
Level: *1*
Current XP: *0*
Level Up At: *1,000*
HP: 10 + 3 = *13* (Base + Mod) *Here could you reverse the numbers* *as I need the totals more than the modifiers.* 
AC: 10 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 0 = *18* (Base + Arm + Shield + Dex + DB)
Touch: 10 + 2 + 0 = *12* (Base + Dex + DB)
Flat-Footed: 10 + 4 + 2 = *16* (Base + Arm + Shield) *And for AC also, thanks*
DB: *+0* (½ BAB)
Initiative: *+2* (Dex)
Speed: *20* (Armor), *30* (Base)
BAB: *+1*
Melee: 1 + 3 = *+4* (BAB + Str)
Ranged: 1 + 2 = *+3* (BAB + Dex)
Spell Resistance: *0*
Damage Resistance: *0*



		Code:
	

[B]-Ability Scores-[/B]
Str: [B]16[/B] (+3)[10p]
Dex: [B]14[/B] (+2)[06p]
Con: [B]16[/B] (+3)[10p]
Int: [B]10[/B] (+0)[02p] 
Wis: [B]10[/B] (+0)[02p]
Cha: [B]13[/B] (+1)[05p][B]
-Saves-[/B]
Fort: 3 + 2 = [B]+5[/B] (Mod + Class Base Save)
Ref:  2 + 0 = [B]+2[/B] (Mod + Class Base Save)
Will: 0 + 0 = [B]+0[/B] (Mod + Class Base Save)

*

-Weapon-* (Attack – Damage – Critical – Type – Misc)
Trident: *+4 – 1d8 – x2* – Piercing – 10ft Range *Weapon Focus missing
* Heavy Steel Shield: *+4 – 1d4 – x2* – Bludgeoning – N/A *same*

*-Armor-* (AC – ACP – Speed – Weight)
Scale Mail: *+4 – -4* – 20ft – 30lbs
Heavy Steel Shield: *+2 – -2* – N/A – 15lbs

*-Languages-* 
Common

[sblock=-House Rule Changes-]
 Fighter Proficiencies are only Trident Proficiency & Shield Proficiency.
 Fighter Armor Proficiency for Heavy Armor is removed, Extra Feat instead.[/sblock]
*Here you should maybe say: Fighter proficiencies - swap prof w/ all martial weapons for Martial Weapon Prof(trident) and Weapon Focus(trident)

Swap Heavy Armor Prof for ??? don't see the extra feat?*


*-Feats-*
[sblock=House Changes]
House Change: Weapon Proficiency (Trident) – No Penalty.
 House Change: Shield Proficiency – No Penalty.
 House Change: Armor Proficiency (Medium) – No Penalty.[/sblock]
*Should have light armor prof also. and instead of no penalty under shields maybe list - no change.*

 Level 1: *Power Attack* – Add Penalty/Bonus to Attack/Damage Rolls up to BAB until next turn.
Human Bonus: *Improved Shield Bash* – Retain Shield AC Bonus When Shield Bashing.
Fighter Bonus: *Weapon Focus (Trident)* – *+1* to Attack Rolls using Trident.
House Extra: *Weapon Focus (Shield)* – *+1* to Attack Rolls using Shield.
 Free +2/+2: *Athletic* – *+2* to Jump/Swim Skills.

*Missing one??*

*-Skills-*
Skill Points: 20 (4[Base 2 + House 2] + 0 [Int Mod] * 4 + 4 [Racial Bonus])
Max Ranks: 4 Class, 2 Cross.
*ACP: -6 (list that here, and add to skills)* 


		Code:
	

-Skill List- (Rank – Mod – Feat – Misc – Total)
Class:
[B]Climb[/B] (Str) 4 + 3 + 0 + 0 = [COLOR=Red][B]7[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Jump[/B] (Str) 4 + 3 + 2 + 0 = [COLOR=Red][B]9[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Swim[/B] (Str) 4 + 3 + 2 + 0 = [COLOR=Red][B]9[/B][/COLOR]
Cross:
[B]Balance[/B] (Dex) 2 + 2 + 0 + 0 = [COLOR=Red][B]4[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Bluff[/B] (Cha) 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 =[B] 3[/B]

[sblock=-Inventory-]
*-Equipment-* (Cost – Weight)
*Trident*: 15gp – 4lbs 
*Scale Mail*: 50gp – 30lbs
*Heavy Steel Shield*: 20gp – 15lbs

*-Items- *(Cost – Weight)
*Travelers clothes*: 1gp – 5lbs *cost non weight none*
*Backpack*: 2gp – 2lbs
*Bedroll*: 1sp – 5lbs
*Waterskin*: 1gp – 4lb
*Belt Pouch*: 1gp – 1/2lb 
*Hooded Lantern*: 7gp – 2lbs
*Flint & Steel*: 1gp – N/A
*1-Pint Oil Flask*: 1sp – 1lb[/sblock]

*-Misc-*
Total Weight: *68.5lbs* *63.5lbs clothes weigh nothing if you are wearing them*
Max Weight: 76 / 77 – 153 / 154 – 230
Money: 51 Gold, 8 Silver.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok my idea for getting you into Off to War is that you lived/worked on a farm around Harkon Manor. You may not have been inside the keep but might have visited Wey once or twice.

Now your character would have heard of the destruction by the Treylor of a small village on their way to Harkon and the battle afterward. 

And that could be motive to join the army now nearby. But when tested to join by given a sword and shield you kind of flunked out, so they told you to go and join the irregulars or "iggots".

And that is where I wish to start you having failed to join the main army and wondering into the irregulars camp. Sound ok?

HM


----------



## Zerith

... for a third time, I would like to know: When you replayed to Qustion 1 of 5, saying "no all feats are replaced." Were you talking about Wild shape or Alternate form as per a Lycannthrope!? I'm at an impasse of if or if not this character is viable the way I want to use him and my question, from what I can see, has been ignored out right, Twice


----------



## HolyMan

Not ignored just doing the easy stuff first.

I have looked and I think you would need to take the ability to transform not as a feat or it would be replaced and the you would be stuck. Does the feat have a duration of any sort?

I think the best thing we could do is have you gain the wild shape ability in a limited form. And for now have your character built up so that when you started getting higher lvls you started get lycanthrope abilities traded into your class until you were like the equivalent of a werecat rogue ??whatever.

This would require most of your feat choices and abilities, traded out for claw attacks, hybrid form and what not.

What I want in the end is to have your lvl + ECL equal the XP you currently have but not have you gain abilities to fast. One lvl you'll be ahead but the next behind.

Best I can do to work with you do to the limits of the character gene rules.

Also when I was to send Spade's character out on a mission I was hoping his character would encounter yours. I'm not sure what it is your personality is to be but I am hoping for something on the feral side. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

Well, that I’ve proposed, I think, is ECL neutral, at level 1 he is just trading a feat for alternate form (without most of its boons, could make it so the hybrid form dos not add natural weapons yet if balance in an issue there) and then he just acquires the proper benefits as he levels up. So, for example, assuming from here on the character only tries to attain his full lycanthropic heritage as quickly as possible, he would, by the time Gareth hit level 7 (assuming the both got EXP at the same rate) the character I’m proposing would have the first class level (rogue) 3 animal levels, and three level adjustments, level 4 with an ECL of 7. ETC 7 to ETC 7. At what point he would basically be a normal Lycanthrope. But I think he would be gaining: Animal Level, Level Adjustment, Class Level, Animal Level, Level Adjustment, Class Level, etc. until he got to ECL 9 (Character level 6) at which point he would be full on ‘Lycanthrope Levels’.

But before that, he would have a fractional amount of the benefits acquired by Lycanthropes proportional to the levels he has acquired towards that end; IE, at level up he could get an animal level, granting a share of the animal depended benefits; a Level Adjustment, granting a share of Lycanthrope dependant benefits, or a class level as normal, and only ever one their of, were in what I’m proposing would he get a sudden bonus larger than another character gains? From what I've heard (Lycanthropes being a bit weak next to other PCs) would be getting arguably less until he could pay off some of his level advancements (possible, at character level 12 (ECL 15) 18 (ECL 20) and 21 (ECL 22). 
[Although, I might see if we can arrange buying them off sooner than at those points, and if so it would be something like paying the EXP cost of buying them off at the respective levels (would be 14,000, 19,000, and 21,000 respectively I think)]


  [FONT=&quot]So in short, it would kind of be breaking it down into a class; it tallies up as generic lycanthropes without the need of trying to see what class trait is equivalent to what Lycanthropic ability and maintains an ECL that is the same as an other character of his EXP, and I’ve broken it up so each level is about as valuable as any other level. (The damage reduction would be broken in half and gained from the last two level adjustments, for example.) So I’m failing to see where he would be gaining powers to quick. :\

Also: You’ve still not answered the question! >_<
When you said the feats were replaced were you talking about with Wild shape or Alternate form?[/FONT]


----------



## HolyMan

You would retain no feats either way, as I see it. But I do not know the exact wording on alternate form, wild shape list that you can change back as a standard action.

You have to understand that this isn't a standard style game also. When it comes to treasure and such ,so everyone is on the low end of the spectrum for there character lvl this along with your "crunch only" proposal is why I would wish to do this a step at a time. 

If I were to see a reason behind wanting to play a lycanthrope other than you will get all these neat abilities I would be more for this. But the fact that I have 5th lvl characters playing right now who only have one magic item per se and the house rules for high stat buy in, DB, extra skill points per lvl, and an extra +2/+2 feat are based on people playing humans without many abilities. Giving you those plus the other would make your character crunch-wise more powerful, over time I agree, but still in the end.

Your best way is to swap abilities and limit the shape changing. I don't believe I can allow a full lycanthrope in a game like this.

HM


----------



## Zerith

I Forget to mention this about being on the Feral side, depends on who you mean; If you mean, crazed and mindless like a wild animal that got hit by the busies end of the club one too many times on the head: No. If you mean animal tendencies: Yes, For example:
-He likes raw meat and loves Livers; and if he was not worried about appearances, would likely just  eat it without a knife or fork either
-Ignorance of normal, none defined, boundaries: if he considers someone a frined, he would not think twice about being in their personal space, at the same time though, if he was told not to go somwere by someone that, to him, held authority to do so, he would not arbatraly become ignorant of that boundary later, he would also not wander into someone else’s home or room (unless he considered that person a friend, in which case said friend could awake to him looming over them as he waited for them to wake up) Needless to say, this is a very complex part of his mind set, and exceptions do ably were I see fit.
-Seeing blood and gore Differently; a carcasses does not hold anything revolting to him, nether dos blood (or having some blood on his person) he just sees meat, a;;though if the sence is horiric enough he might see otherwise. But in general, jest meat, and depending on what it is, and if it is under a day or two old, possibly dinner…
-Making animal noises: Churring, Growling, Purring, etc (Cheetah’s can’t roar, so that’s out of what he might do, that said, they do chirp among other things. No joke, YouTube “chirping cheetahs!”)
Etc.

So while I’m planning on him being notably animalistic, he is one: Smart by human standards (14 Int, if my character is smart, it is stated to show it ) and two: he has lived ‘in’ normal human society, all though, and by no means as much as a normal human would, as seen by his aptitude for ‘forgetting’ normal day to day etiquette (buying something, he will pay for it and ask for his change, but he might also first sniff at it if it is meat…) and while he can be considered a member of it, he tends to spend a lot of time out of it when possible. (He has been rather successful at finding work as a currier, so he tends to never stay long at any one place and tends to spend most of his time going place to place.)

---

Looked at werewolves, and the feats for Hybrid/Animal forms says “Same as human form” so that is how I’ve taken it so far, but is there a house rule saying otherwise? 

---

  As for having upped stats: with how I’m planning on leveling him, he would have +6 (in hybrid/animal form) by ECL 2, + 12 by ECL 5 and +18(full) by ECL 8.  Admittedly his Dex, his best stat, gets the largest boon, literally half (+8); so I can really see what you mean right here ^_^;
[the Damage reduction that is, from what I can see the next largest boon, he would get at ECL 6 and 9: 5/silver and 10/silver respectively.]


  --

as for tacking the skill points away, I think that is nerfing a weakness; lycanthropes ,natural ones, have 3 level adjustments to eat, they don’t get skill points for those, and animal levels are only 2s naturally. So the hose rule shorts them(when they have all three level adjustments) 6 skill points at any time before ECL 15, short changing them on skill points even with that seems a bit extreme to me. Not saying they aren’t a bit OP giving the setting (I’m a newbie to D&D so I Don’t rely know details about balance yet) but I think if they need to get hacked at, maybe they need to be weakened somewhere else. Also, doesn’t low character wealth make Monks relatively better? (No weapon/armor to buy, and from what I understand, their unarmed bonus helps natural attacks… but pah, lawful is boring )

--

Any ways, if you would rather not continue along this line of debate I could just use another character. And as for why I wanted to use a Lycanrope, it is because their a none standard choice that would be highly unequal in the setting that I thought I could sneak in; I loathe RPing “a perfectly normal guy.” Normal is boring, normal is real life, and I don’t think any of us are here to RP Joe Some pushing his cart at the store to buy beans and then roll the dice to see his he makes the spot check. Not saying I RP “Chaotically insane” at every turn though. (It can be fun, but not every character is a half devil that is having their soul shredded by their mere existence.)

But I digress, give me an idea of what you might like instead and I’ll see what I can do with the concept while making the character unequal. (Odd is amusing to me you see ;3)


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> *I like the red hair and green eyes I am about to make that the typical look of all Peshman.*




Oh great. I used those in my description to give Jareth some stand-out appearance (beyond the use of the spiked chain), and they got turned into something of a family trait... That made some sense, as such traits are passed genetically. But an entire nation is that closely-related, so the vast majority have those genetic markers? *sigh*



Zerith said:


> Looked at werewolves, and the feats for Hybrid/Animal forms says “Same as human form” so that is how I’ve taken it so far, but is there a house rule saying otherwise?




That just means they retain/use the same feats they have in their human form, to use in animal/hybrid form when applicable (like Weapon Proficiency... not really useful when you can't hold a weapon).



> As for having upped stats: with how I’m planning on leveling him, he would have +6 (in hybrid/animal form) by ECL 2, + 12 by ECL 5 and +18(full) by ECL 8.  Admittedly his Dex, his best stat, gets the largest boon, literally half (+8); so I can really see what you mean right here ^_^;
> [the Damage reduction that is, from what I can see the next largest boon, he would get at ECL 6 and 9: 5/silver and 10/silver respectively.]




Getting such significant bonuses, when compared to the other characters already in the game, is too potent. +6 to your ability scores at level 2 puts you at roughly more capable than the level 3 or 4 characters. The DR makes you effectively invulnerable as long as the enemies are using normal iron/steel weapons. And I don't think an entire army is going to switch to a more-expensive metal just because one (or even a few) of the enemy can be hurt by only X metal.



> Also, doesn’t low character wealth make Monks relatively better? (No weapon/armor to buy, and from what I understand, their unarmed bonus helps natural attacks… but pah, lawful is boring )




A little off-topic, but whatever. Answered from an Optimization point of view: *No.* Monks need magic gear as much as (if not more than) the other classes. Monks are barely competent as it is, with full normal gear/budget. To take that away limits them even further. The only classes to receive a benefit in a low-item game are the full-casting classes, though even Wizard suffers some, due to lack of available spellbooks/scrolls from which to copy. The ones still at their best are Druid and Cleric, with standard Sorcerer lagging behind a bit (lack of versatility being his hobble).

And Lawful is not boring, if you play it like an alignment should be. (And as a side note, I HATE Chaotic Neutral as a scapegoat for doing stupid/random crap.)
[sblock=Little Lawful-Alignment Descriptive Rant]
Lawful means you follow rules, yes, but no one really said they have to be _all_ the rules, or even the rules of the area/town you are in. A Lawful character can just as easily follow his/her own personal rules/code/laws, which could be quite different from the "standard" laws.
Lawful Good uses these values to uphold the common good, do the greatest good for the greatest number, etc.
Lawful Neutral uses these values as a baseline for how to get by, survive and persevere.
Lawful Evil uses these values as a way to increase their personal power. Note Evil does not mean "out to get/hurt everyone I possibly can." There is simply a lack of regard for anyone else, most of the time. Though some Evil people actually regard life quite highly... but that's a different matter.
[/sblock]



> Any ways, if you would rather not continue along this line of debate I could just use another character. And as for why I wanted to use a Lycanrope, it is because their a none standard choice that would be highly unequal in the setting that I thought I could sneak in;




A few words of advice: never try to "sneak in" anything. It's okay to ask, but don't try to sneak. DMs will not let you join if you pull stuff like that. (I understand you may have merely used a poor choice of words, but it's advice nonetheless.)
And by highly-unequal, you are right in more ways than one. Socially, they're (at best) outcasts. ... And balance-wise, see above (about ability scores, DR, etc.).



> I loathe RPing “a perfectly normal guy.” Normal is boring, normal is real life, and I don’t think any of us are here to RP Joe Some pushing his cart at the store to buy beans and then roll the dice to see his he makes the spot check. Not saying I RP “Chaotically insane” at every turn though. (It can be fun, but not every character is a half devil that is having their soul shredded by their mere existence.)
> 
> But I digress, give me an idea of what you might like instead and I’ll see what I can do with the concept while making the character unequal. (Odd is amusing to me you see ;3)




Who said anything about playing "a perfectly normal guy"? You're only limited to Human and a couple of books, from which you can pull near-limitless combinations  of character abilities, not even counting the limitless variety of RP potential.
Have you bothered to read through the (several) IC threads or the RG? We have/had the following (as a quick example): 
a portly Human Battle Sorcerer who started a little lazy but has grown more skilled and more hardy; 
a Wizard with a drug/alcohol problem that ruined his apprenticeship and has fallen off the wagon several times; 
a Paladin-archer fighting against the prejudices against his culture and maintaining the strictures of his calling.

Now tell me... how do you consider these "perfectly normal"? Sure, they exhibit some of the average traits/issues we deal with in RL, but they've got plenty of RP sources and have their own unique, interesting traits. Oh, and they've got magic. 
Really, don't sell the game short because of a Race limitation. If you don't want to play a Human, find a different game.
(If this sounds a bit vehement, it's because I've gotten a bit tired of seeing people try to push the DM's limits on what is/isn't available.)

End Note: If my words come off as harsh, I apologize. I sincerely didn't mean them to be so, merely debating and presenting my own argument from a slightly different perspective.
(And if you didn't understand some of the words I used, the dictionary is your friend.  )


----------



## Zerith

About Lawful being boring: I just don’t find it as fun: thus it is boring (although L.E. can be fun for me, but that is generally as the big bad, not the big bad here so that is irreverent)

And about being perfectly normal, ok, so I generalized, Far, too much there, but I like making my characters as highly unequal as possible (although I never use girl characters, they confuse me far too much to get into their heads.)

Also I’m not an RP newbie, just a DnD newbie, one of my first characters (pure text RP) was a human warrior he, was not wise or smart, but damnedly over built, got into a fight with a puny elf thief, Poor Armee’s armor was ruined even and battle axed a half dozen or so of his own coins in half before the thief fled before the brute could hit it L
(the other Character? A small silver dragon, small as in the size of a cat with wings and a large tail, so about the size of a prudo dragon? Or however you spell it…)
  [FONT=&quot]
Mind you, I have nothing against that old character, but it was a very short PvP RP.  For an RP that, from what I can tell, will last years, I want to make damned sure the character I play will intrigue me for years, and wandering how a character will  interact because of challenges they cross do to their stature and or form adds to the intrigue. (I’m tall[6’4”], so my characters are generally short, meaning they don’t hit their heads on things, normal, but can’t reach the top self easy, odd.)
[That said most of my characters are smart, because I think I’m smart because of my (overly) inflated ego, and let’s be frank, if we think of something, so did our characters, but it’s hard to justify how a half-wyvern with a brain the size of a peanut noticed the walls of a graveyard are odd because they are two feet tall and four wide, even more so if the ‘smart’ priest/wizard was ignorant of it.

As for my woefully lake luster command of the English language, I have, or had, something that starts with an A and ends with an M. Was told I would not read, but here I am annoying you all, so yesh, can’t type/talk for [kittens], but I can easly read… Unless I have to deal with one of my old forum’s legendary RPers: 2+ pages of one character, sitting in pace, on a stole, saying nothing, NOTHING. No joke, Epic amounts of fluff, no rambling, just crazed fluff ;

And when I said sneak in, I mean setting wise: it’s a pureish human setting, and I was trying to grey step a sub race that has no history, that I know of, in the RP.

Random, Crazy but liked, oddball thought: what about a character who got incarnated into an animal and then started acquiring spells/abilities through the sculpt self feat?
Reincarnate dos not add Racial hit dice: so no ECL conflict.
But it does demand the question of: can the annoyingly smart animal talk back? (Thought of this because it never says you can’t talk in languages you already know if you end up as an animal [other] XD)
Also, if I did this, would the character have the feat and or skill bonuses from being a human previously? (probably not…)

Finally don’t annoy powerful gnome wizards with an odd sense of hummer, and a need of a new mount.
[Hop I did not mix any thing again >_<][/FONT]


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Right just doing Aver's level up - using the Elf Generalist substitution level from Races of the Wild as planned. And I cannot seem to recall or find whether the Spell Compendium was allowed. Is it? Gotta make my spell selections.

I am also planning to swap Summon Familiar for point blank shot, and scribe scroll for precise shot if that is acceptable.


Aver Level-up
 [sblock=2nd]HP (1d4+2): Aver Level-up
HP 1d4+2 5
 Gain first level spellcasting.
Gain 4 1st level Spell Slots - 1 base, +2 Bonus, +1 Elf Generalist.
Gain 9 1st level Spells in Spellbook , 1 from Elf Generalist.
Spells Selected: 
 Gain Scribe Scroll swap for Point Blank Shot.
Gain Summon Familiar Swap for Precise Shot.
 Gain 9 skill points (2 base +2 House Rule +5 INT):  Concentration 4 ranks, Search 1 rank - class skill thanks to Elf Generalist - Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Furkiss's HP increase to 6.[/sblock]


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## HolyMan

How are you swaping out Summon Familiar?? I thought we allowed you to have one for your first lvl feat or something. So essentially you are gaining the feat back and can use it on point blank shot? Or something like that anyway.

HM


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## Aldern Foxglove

I spent my 1st level feat on Obtain Familiar. When I take a level of familiar it gives me Summon Familiar - which I effectively already have - so I swap it for a feat.

It was always just intended to let me begin play with a familiar since I wanted to have one I had a history with and not have to spend time summoning up a new one in play. So all I am doing is getting my 1st level feat back I just listed it as trading out the Summon Familiar ability. I have exactly what I would have at this level and without the swaps - I just preferred to have a familiar than a feat for 1st level. I am under the impression I cleared this, but I will admit to having a rose tinted memory on occasion.


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## HolyMan

It works out either way just didn't know it was a swap so all is good on this end. Your lvl up is good but you will have to put a link to the abilities of an Elf generalist in your character sheet as I know nothing about the class.

Spells can be any but again you will need to list those I don't have access to.

HM


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## Zerith

So, If I went if an animal character Vie reincarnation (thinking of maybe using a cat, of doom! Do do! [Somone has a doom butterfly and I think making a diminutive kangaroo rat might be to cheezey]) would:
-Any stat adjustment for using a cat? (Lower Str higher Dex?)
-The feat/skills from being a human be maintained at all? (would just make the character be a former filmier to avoid this forth with, but then their comes the qustion of if the character is an awakened animal...)
-The present house rules (+2/2 feat and +2 SP per class level) go or stay for the character?

Also, assuming I would be using Sculpt Self as apposed to buying gear as normal, could GP be used buy Prestige races? (I'm thinking of starting the character out with 3 level 0/caster level 0 spells as once a day casts for 120 GP)
Further, would spells gained through Sculpt Self need the character to be humanoid if it needs to make jesters to use the spell proper?
Would the spells be swift/free actions? (as Sculpt self is based off of magic items, would the ability be activated like compatible Use-activated/continuous magic items?) and would the spells need to make concentration checks, if any, as normal? (I'm amusing yes)

... No... I'm not thinking about making a costume mythical beast that floats around with a indefinitely cast mage hand spell and loads of magical affects with about 12 hp when he should be at level 5... Not thinking of it breathing fire too...


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## HolyMan

Really trying for off the wall aren't you.

Nothing of what you ask will I allow in this game. But your idea has given me one as well.

What if your "character" was the familiar/animal companion of a person that you made stats for.

For example you could play a rogue (or say paladin) and by giving him the summon familiar ability/feat and using the character gene rules you would have a character not typically associated with having one. Using the empathy your two characters could communicate more or less with the human for some strange reason "obeying" the familiar. But your character "in charge" is the animal the human is the extra - although he gets the feats, equipment, extra skill points and such. So the crunch is no different but the play will be off the wall.

HM


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## HolyMan

Going to update K2V tomorrow.

I will be describing the new cave that you are to reach and then we will be RPing for a while. Since we spent like two + months in combat 

HM


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## Zerith

I've been off the wall, I'm working on braking through the 5th wall, the ceiling, and onto the roof! XD. 
I Could just see a kangaroo rat opening its jaw, and letting out a pea sized flame of "oh [Wuve!]!!!" and then torching a room for 1d3 damage (caster level 0, for teh cheeply spammed spells of pointless flamboyance.)
... also the, diminutive, kangaroo rat could easy carry, not drage, Cary three 10 foot poles around Med load of 26.5 with 8 Str.... It's teh supah strong kangaroo rate XD ... I'm sorry, but once I thought of it I just had to try to get something like it XD

But onto more realistic characters: I like the consept, but while I like the idea of the familiar being the smart one, it's been done before*, and that makes the familiar, or in this set up, the lead character, depened on the factual character to be intelligent enough to be a competent caster but dumb enough that something they made, that starts out with a int intellect down there with the most intellectually challenged orcs, can out smart them and dominat them mentally, I love RPing whimsically, but I draw my own line in the sand in terms of belivability: the rodent that has the soul of a apprentice caster has became magical and is tossing around flamboyantly ineffective spells left and right while going on an ego trip before being whisked away by the tail by an ally? I can see that happening in my warped little mind, but a competent caster (and lets be frank, no one will make a caster without strong mental stats) who gets bent to the will of a random familiar? I find that hard to swallow.
[*if I recall right, either a half ogre or just an ogre becoming a caster  and then the fimiler franticly trying to become it's own caster becuse  it knows that big dumb and stupid will get himself killed sooner  then latter]

Any ways, as I ways saying, onto resinable characters, I do have a clockwork Knight I've never goten to use, probably start him out as an artifacter and then grow to have Construct Grafting and then RP him getting a little [very] chopped up during a fight after he gets grafting and has every thing needed to replace an arm and two legs at the knees.
Two Pictures: Old, Newish.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Sure thing, its from Races of the Wild, its probably on Crystal Keep. Its a substitution level not a class. Basically you take the sub level and give something to get something.  In this case you give up the chance to specialize, but gain a single extra spellslot at your highest level only, you also gain 1 extra spell for your spellbook per level and search as a class skill.

Edit: Huh, crystal keep has obviously been forced to get rid off all its none OGL material. I'll just put the whole sub level thing in an sblock.


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## HolyMan

Hmmm... I wasn;t suggesting taking a class that could cast spells. I was thinking more of a martial class to act as bodyguard or errand boy. So when people ask him are you taking orders from that rat?? You could be like "Well yes he's the boss."

Actually the clockwork knight sounds cool and could(possible) work in tandem with the above idea. 

@AFg ok then this isn't a class with BAB and Saves and such? it is added to a class (in this case wizard?) And your giving up specializing to gain the benefits of specializing? 

HM


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## jackslate45

From my understanding, the substitution levels allow it to count as a class in wizard, but gain other abilities/skills/saves.  So he would be Rogue 1/Wizard 1


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## HolyMan

So long as there is some balance. Really it sounds just like my swapping rules to me. But I haven't seen anything he has lost yet. Is why I wanted a post of the sub class and or the rules.


HM


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## Spade

Oh wow, everybody posted in here the one day I was zonked out.

That is funny though about the red hair and green eyes. I just do it because it's my favorite combination. 

Anyways, thanks for the feedback, I'll make those corrections you mentioned and alter the history a bit.


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## HolyMan

NP Spade let me know when it is done.

@DW - Jareth doesn't need a stand out appearance (and could look like the typical Peshman). He has a stand out personality trust me he is hard to forget.

HM


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## Zerith

A combative Class with a filmier? I did not think of that Hmmm. But as for meshing with teh clockwork knight: would not happen, he is definitively smart. (two 18 mental stats, yesh...)

So ya, whimpy in body but in terms of raw mental power he can just steamrole most ppl, in multiples. Also, for the acquiring of feats, is the modifiers from feats/ability scores/synergies that add to the skill rolls combined or is it just the raw ranks when it asks for skill ranks? (no, I'm not trying to get construct grafting early...)


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## HolyMan

Skill *RANKS* are the number of ranks you got from putting your points into a skill.

 So yes if it asks for Skill *RANKS* that will never be more than 3 + LVL for a class skill and 1/2 that for a cross class skill.

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce

Man, I have kept quiet for the most part, but I do agree on a few  things.  First, the lycanthrope character was getting me a little  nervous.  For the most part, the whole concept of the game being  centered around human race characters is what intrigued me.  With the  addition of a lycanthrope that honestly would have better, for lack of a  better word, *umph*, than most of the rest of us, I just think it would  unbalance the group.  

That being said, I do LOVE the artificer grafting concept you have  outlined above.  It really does lend to a character that is 'out there'  amongst his own and very unique.  The growth into his clockwork knight  form sounds like a good thing to RP as well as bee a part of.  But  that's just my thinking on the information and concepts I have been  trying to keep up with.


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## Zerith

Rats, muse there is no point in looking for a skill that adds to craft then.
Also, cloud I gear my character as if he made most of his gear instead of paying full cost for it? (I assume not but I don't see the harm in asking)^_^

Also, I'm dead on my [butt], so I think I'm heading off to bed or now.
Also, this character is going item creation heavy, each level, until level 9 then, that's the soonest he can get graft then, baring lowering a long end stat to bump craft up to 10 by level 6 >_<


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## Aldern Foxglove

It is a good substitution, but I would argue comparable with specialization. So essentially you are giving up a free spell slot at every level with the loss of two schools, for a free spell slot at your highest level and a free spell in your spell book every level.

If we price these out to say 7th level we see that pearls of power would cost us 30,000gp vs 16,000gp - and spell slots are actually better than pearls of power and therefore ought to be worth more. 7 spells added for free account for another couple of thousand. So we are talking about gaining 12,000gp of value - at 7th level - by giving up two schools. I would - and do - argue that this is therefore balanced against a specialist wizard. It is not balanced against a normal generalist, but it is not trying to be.

I've posted the write up in the RG anyway, so look it over and see what you think.


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## Zerith

if it normally costs 16.000 GP to make it, it is relay 12.000 GP, Alexander makes stuff on the cheep; that includes the price of making, and upgrading, enchanted armor/weapons. Yesh, he is creation heavy, nows, my brain is poopy like, I've brushed my teeth and my head is farting, night night

~Teh insane one.


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## Spade

@HolyMan - On your Red Ink'ing of my sheet, it says you don't see the extra feat - That's the one called "house extra" in the feat list. It's Weapon(Shield) Focus.

Is there a better name you'd want it to be listed as or..?

EDIT: Also, the armor prof. stuff works in ranks - If you have Heavy, you have Medium and Light. So if I have Medium, it's assumed I have Light. I can still list it though, I guess, it just seems unneeded.


----------



## Zerith

Btw, about item creation; how long between outings will our characters have to work on items?
Also, if the IC is fairly fast paced, IE, early at base, will there be any kind of time cheat to allow items to be made faster then the X days IC time? or would the time needed to make the item need to be a real concern?

Addon: Also, infusions don't seem to be arcane in nature: so could my character use heavy armor without miscasting?

And will feats like "Craft masterwork Armor" have to be acquired to make masterwork items? (or in the case of Alchemy, make the items at all)


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## Spade

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]
I fixed up my sheet some, there were a couple things in the Skills area I wasn't sure about, namely if skills can go into negatives or if they stop at 0.

I also changed my feats a little, swapped out the fighter's automatic Tower Shield Proficiency for an Extra Feat and generally corrected some stuff I messed up on.

I'll get to the history tweaks next if I got everything else worked out right.


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## HolyMan

Will check in on it then.

Didn't even think of the tower shield as an swap out, but it is. Just another pointless feat given "just in case" you find a magical one lying around.

BTW before I forget you mentioned skills did you want to do any swaping out there? Although the class skills of a fighter do lean towards your farmer background.

Oh and yes skill can go into the negatives. 

HM


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## Spade

Actually, when I was looking at what skills to have ranks in it was a little hard to find ones that were appropriate for the character. Luckily the fighter does have good ones for the character though, or it'd be a lot more expensive to get ranks in anything.


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## HolyMan

Now if you want you could trade that Tower shield feat out for gaining two cross-class skills as class skills. That is part of the process of molding a character for this. 

Your character might have hunted so could have lots of things.

Move Silently
Hide
Know-Nature
Spot
Listen

Just like a fighter from the city might have run with the street urchins before going to get his training in weapons and could have.

Know-Local
Gather Info
Bluff
Sense Motive
Perform(acting) - if he went out begging

Just want you to have all your options for the character you are leaning towards in the end.

HM


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## Spade

Hm, those are pretty good suggestions. I'll look it over some more and think on it, I only really used the extra feat for Dodge because I need that eventually for Mobility anyways and there wasn't much else I could think of, but using it to turn some skills into class skills is a nice idea.


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## HolyMan

@Spade - Everything looks good but still don't see the swap for Heavy Armor. Best if you list what was swapped for what.

You have Dodge for Tower Shield and Shield Focus, Weapon Focus, and Martial Weapon(trident) for losing all the martial weapons. But nothing for the heavy armor yet.

Maybe take dodge for that and the 2 new class skills for the tower shield. Just an idea.

@AFg thanks for the info. It all looks good the generalist seems weaker than a specialist but I might be missing something (time will tell). Spells are good (Aver is going to glow in the dark?!?)do you have a spellbook list somewhere?

HM


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## Spade

I think I see the misunderstanding here.

Shield Focus IS the Heavy Armor Exchange. 

Weapon Focus and Trident Prof. are the Martial Weapon Prof. Exchange.

I've changed the Tower Shield to be Two Cross Skills Become Class Skills, instead of dodge, BTW.

So I guess what you're saying is I have another Extra Feat? I'm not really sure where it'd be coming from, though.

EDIT: Maybe you overlooked it, but it was in one of those blocks you have to click on to see the contents:



Spade said:


> -Fighter Proficiencies-
> All Martial Prof. Swapped For Weapon (Trident) Proficiency/Focus.
> *Heavy Armor Prof. Swapped For Extra Feat: Weapon (Shield) Focus)
> *Tower Shield Prof. Swapped For Move Silently/Balance Skills Becoming Class Skills.
> 
> *-Feats-*
> Level 1: *Power Attack* – Add Penalty/Bonus to Attack/Damage Rolls up to BAB until next turn.
> Human Bonus: *Improved Shield Bash* – Retain Shield AC Bonus When Shield Bashing.
> Fighter Bonus: *Cleave* - On Dropping A Foe, May Immediately Attack Another With Same Weapon/Bonus.
> *House Extra: Weapon Focus (Shield) – **+1 to Shield Attack Rolls.*
> Free +2/+2: *Athletic* – *+2* to Jump/Swim Skills.


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## HolyMan

No I said you may swap out your Fighter starts with all martial weapon feats for;

Martial Weapon Prof -trident
Weapon Focus - trident
+ one other feat of your choice

I'd look it up but am tired and Off to Bed 

I am to nice sometimes. But it was the farm boy background and taking a unique weapon and not a sword that got me thinking...

 "Hey he doesn't need all that, and it fits."

HM


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## Spade

Ahah, I see. I guess the way you were pointing it out was confusing me? At least we cleared it up now, so I'll adjust it and then probably put dodge back in as the Heavy Armor Swap.


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## HolyMan

HolyMan said:


> Not bad for your first attempt I have seen worse. And you will learn all the ways to clean up a post and such as you go.
> 
> Only thing crunch wise I see wrong is you have Reflex save listed as:
> 
> Reflex 2 + 0 = +2 and it should be
> 
> Reflex 0 + 2 = +2
> 
> I haven't added up the equipment because it is to late in the evening for math, but I saw you took the trident that is a very irregular weapon and will fit in nicely.
> 
> A suggestion should you want it. Maybe to flesh the character out a little and make him a little bit better in combat. You could have in your background that your character didn't handle a sword very well but the "pitch fork like" weapon was well suited to him. And since you didn't do well with regular weapons you were put in with the irregulars.
> 
> So if you want I will allow you to lose Prof. with all Martial Weapons and swap it out for Prof. with Trident and any other Prof. you wish.
> 
> Suggestions: Shield Specialization, Toughness, Weapon Focus, come to mind. You could start another tree and take Power Attack or Combat Expertise.
> 
> Totally up to you but it would add a little fluff and crunch to the character at the same time.
> 
> Let me know and I will finish your review tomorrow.
> 
> HM




ok ok but I knew I couldn't sleep not knowing...

Looks like I goofed and a DM goof in your favor. I guess I got to thinking that trading 35 feats for 2 not quite fair.

So go ahead and make it as I stated it (wrongly) in the above post

 trade for martial weapon prof-trident and* TWO* others

Night EnWorlders

HM


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## Spade

Okay, I changed it to HOPEFULLY the correct thing this time, I'm going to go ahead and paste the relevant bits in here so you can just look at it later:



Spade said:


> -Fighter Proficiencies-
> All Martial Prof. Swapped For Weapon (Trident) Proficiency/Focus & *Weapon (Shield) Focus.*
> Heavy Armor Prof. Swapped For Extra Feat: *Dodge.*
> Tower Shield Prof. Swapped For Move Silently/Balance Skills Becoming Class Skills.
> 
> *-Feats-*
> -Class Innate/House Rule Feats-
> Weapon Proficiency (Trident) – No Attack Roll Penalty.
> Weapon Focus (Trident) - +1 To Trident Attack Rolls.
> Shield Proficiency – No ACP On Attack Rolls.
> *Weapon Focus (Shield) - +1 To Shield Attack Rolls.*
> Armor Proficiency (Medium/Light) – No ACP On Attack Rolls.
> 
> Level 1: *Power Attack* – Add Penalty/Bonus to Attack/Damage Rolls up to BAB until next turn.
> Human Bonus: *Improved Shield Bash* – Retain Shield AC Bonus When Shield Bashing.
> Fighter Bonus: *Cleave* - On Dropping A Foe, May Immediately Attack Another With Same Weapon/Bonus.
> *House Extra: Dodge – +1 Dodge Bonus AC vs 1 Foe.*
> Free +2/+2: *Athletic* – *+2* to Jump/Swim Skills.


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## Gueifu

Well this is a good site


----------



## Zerith

So, are any feats needed to make masterwork armor/weapons and Alchemical items? Just asking because I randomly found some feats that said they were needed, individually, to make master work armor, master work weapons, or alchemical items ;

And, infusions don't seem to be arcane in nature: so could my character use heavy armor without miscasting?

Also, I think you're giving out a bit much for weapon proficiency, Sure, if you're buying it, it's one weapon per a feat,  but by this logic I could, if I wanted to Cheese the nine hells out of this system, If I played a fighter and then, at level 2, get a level of barbarian.

I could then trade both simple and martial weapon proficiency for an extra, by what your giving out here, 4 feats.  This is amusing I don't trade off the martial/simple weapon proficiencies from fighter as well.
Kicker is I'm also getting to choose one weapon to keep each time I trade off a proficiency.
Oh, I forgot, their is also armor to either keep or toss off. So their is an other three easily off loaded, redundant, class features granted by barbarian.

Point I'm making here: second level in fighter: +1d10 hit dice, 2+int mod skill points, +1 fort save +1 combative feat, +1 BAB. But a level in barbarian: +1d12 hit dice, 4+int mod skill points, +2 fort save, +7 feats (by trading off redundant class features), Fast Movement, Rag and, for a kicker: Barbarians have a larger class skill pool to play with. Meaning: if your going to use a fighter, you're best off picking up a level of barbarian no matter what, its a flat out better level advancement ;

Keep in mind, I love the idea of trading around class features, expressly redundant ones, but this set up already favors multi class character with out the cheese of being able to drop one weapon proficiency list for two feats. this means any given character who gets a new basic class gets two + feats on a sigle clase character.
All I'm saying here is, you might want to be a bit more stingy on what you're giving out for weapon proficiencies.
Cheese can happen. Then again, the one classes that can't easy dip into this cheese are spell casters, so who knows, it might be balancing out the nukers latter on XD

~Teh Annoying Newbie

Addon: Could I use Education instead of the Bonus 2/2 feat? (it makes all Knowledge skills class skills and gives +1 to two knowledge skills)


----------



## Dragonwriter

Zerith said:


> So, are any feats needed to make masterwork armor/weapons and Alchemical items? Just asking because I randomly found some feats that said they were needed, individually, to make master work armor, master work weapons, or alchemical items ;




I suggest you stop looking in the Unearthed Arcana Variants. They are not part of Core and only a rare few (on request) have been used in this game. Normal rules allow you to make Masterwork items with a Craft check at a higher DC. Alchemical items are simply made through Craft (alchemy).



> And, infusions don't seem to be arcane in nature: so could my character use heavy armor without miscasting?




AFAIK, HM doesn't have Eberron. But I do, and there is no mention of infusions being any kind of actual magic. They are simply alterations to existing items. There is also no mention in the rules of suffering ASF, and you are given Light and Medium armor proficiency. Seems to me you don't have to worry about ASF. (Just keep in mind the long casting/activation time for most of your infusions.)



> Also, I think you're giving out a bit much for weapon proficiency, Sure, if you're buying it, it's one weapon per a feat,  but by this logic I could, if I wanted to Cheese the nine hells out of this system, If I played a fighter and then, at level 2, get a level of barbarian.




True, but that's pretty looked-down on in this game. The only folks multiclassing are doing so for good character reasons, not to take advantage of the swapping system.



> if your going to use a fighter, you're best off picking up a level of barbarian no matter what, its a flat out better level advancement ;




From an optimization standpoint, you don't take Fighter past level 4 anyway. As you mentioned, Barbarian has several advantages over Fighter. Even Ranger (in Core, somewhat gimped) gets advantages over Fighter.

Anyways, glad to see you're going to something likely to cause less headaches than that lycanthrope.


----------



## HolyMan

DW has the right of it if you were to use whatever class this is you are thinking on I would need the info as I don't have the books.

And swaps need to be approved, they are not a gimme' they need to add to the development of the character and not just be some new ability he has. I think everyone who has played (and there have been alot) have kept the cheese down to a minimum.

Not everyone would recieve three feats for dropping all there martial weapon prof. It goes by build/background.

Multiclassing just to get a chance to get a bunch of new feats will have me putting two hydra's in a creek next time instead of one. 

HM


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## Zerith

@DW, I could always use the Magical Kangaroo Rat that burps out fire balls 
But yesh, its a defect in my mind set, I take things far to literally, meaning, anything short of a no (or other definitive answer) means it's a possibility that simply needs, endless, clarification. ^^;

Also, I'm thinking of making the character a noble; the young son of a wealthy count. (and as such holding title of lord, kinda amassing it's a title given to ppl who's parent has a real tittle given how strong it sounds, but this is going to far off track me thinks...) and is more or less going out to prove himself without any of the benefits of his inheritance (well, Some of it, but only as much as could be reasonably accumulated by some one of more common descent...) And, give he is as well built as a Nobel who has never walked any great distance in his life, most of that was spent on a hose! ;

So yesh, expect a, very, well kept kid who comes riding in on a high hose, literally. as for him charging headlong into battle, don't, he's egotistical not stupid. (Also he is also not Per Cliche princling, but still, expect excessive amounts of mermering if he has to do any grunt work, he will do it, but yeah... (also swamping out alot of his simple weapons for more knightly ones, like being able to use a sword or bash somone's face in with a sheild. Don't expect him to use a sling though.. or throw something, what, you think he has upper body strength?)

[sblock=pointless random rant]In closing, why Dos D&D hate tower shields? Any one who thinks you can't bash someones head in with one has never seen basic tatics with one, also, some tower shields are maybe half as tall as the person using it, the only shields that are normally about the height of the person using them are wall shields, that are generally used with a very heavy crossbow; because wall shields can stand on their own. But meh, can't expect D&D to get every thing of armor right... (or that plate armor can readily be cheaper then ring mail armor...) But that is getting into game mechanics that I think we might as well leave as is ^^;[/sblock]


----------



## jackslate45

HM, what it the accepted lists for books?  Mostly for presiege classes on my end, but this way we can get an official list out (unless its somewhere I have not looked yet...)


----------



## Zerith

Also, while I'm talking, far, to much, could I use Education instead of the Bonus 2/2 feat? 

It makes all  Knowledge skills class skills and gives +1 to two knowledge skills: Disclaimer, the class I'm going to use has three knowledge skills, two of witch I plan on using, and I was thinking of treading off all three while using this skill as to more or less keep them (the gained skills being ride, heal(the one I'm planing on trading for regardless because I don't think it makes sense for my character to have knowledge of the planes...) and diplomacy.

thoughts?


----------



## HolyMan

@ jackslate45 I would say most books or content there in is open EXCEPT: Tome of Battle and Magic Incarnum as they changes things to much for me.

You need only ask and let me see what you are looking at and why.

@ Zerith - I'm liking the start of your newest character as he has a little background to go on, making it easy for me to say he could have Education as a feat, but not knowing the class I can't say if maybe a swap is in order(with a class ability).

And again without the class (before swapping) I can;t help you with the skills. 

I do think that when I get you into the Off to War game that you to being opposites will be cool for the RP.

HM


----------



## Zerith

I think I emailed your Yahoo account with it, hope so at lest, I still need to send you the infusans list, bu that will take a while once I get going on it. that said, yesh, I think I'm going to make a few knowledge(Royalty) checks on him for LoLs. :3


----------



## jackslate45

well, then I have the build from now till level 9 feat wise, and 20 level wise 

And none of what i needed where in those two books


----------



## HolyMan

Glad to hear that, and will help as I can to get you to lvl 20. 

In all seriousness I think this game and the way I'm doing XP give more lvls than any game I've played in so far. So it is possible.

HM


----------



## Zerith

btw, what is the present relation between Nordan and Pesh?(Talking about Nordan, what are some common attributes of its nobility? 

Also, while I'm at it, what about the general traits of Fanshaw's nobles?


----------



## HolyMan

All information on the world at large is here Part of the fun of this was to allow people to help shape the world as well as to play in it.

Let me know what you might like to see and we will put something together.

HM


----------



## Zerith

alright when, in that case, how old there about are the five kindoms and about how old is Pesh itself?

Fluff time!!

Also, did you get the Email?

Addon: is Pesh at war with Nordanand or Fanshaw?
If not, is their a real threat of war?


----------



## HolyMan

The Five Kingdoms are at war with the Treylor so they are banding together.

Age of the realms hasn't been needed just yet. Or a history, now I do have a little history thought out that the PC's are to discover in an adventure to come. But I haven't put it down becuase the PCs don't know it why should the players.

Sorry no email I think the address here is old and I need to change it

send to ewholyman @ gmail that I will get.

HM


----------



## Zerith

hmm, so has a common theme been established for Treylor yet? :3
Also, you have mail :3

... I think ^^;

Addon: Also, it would seem I need to brake up the power blocks for Hose Ravensworth into several knowledge categorizes, oh well, the overall reading should more or less be the same amusing someone can make both nobility and history checks at DC25 :\


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Just a note - Not sure if Aver was speaking towards/about Mal, as Mal would only have begun climbing had nobody taken notice.  Otherwise, he stays put... for now.


----------



## HolyMan

Then I guess he knew your intent and was talking while you were placing your hands about the wall. 

Or you could do a hide/spot roll off. LOL

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Got the email and sent you a confirmation in return. Looks like you get a lot of bonus crafting feats. We will see what we can do. 

About the Treylor they are off limits (though I didn't say it before now). I have had them in the works since hour one of this game, kind of romanticist elves - though the group didn't know they were elves till recently - hope that was a shock like it was suppose to be - as Pesh is very far west and the Treylor cut off ties with the Five Kingdoms almost 600 years ago.

I can't wait to go see eagle and get another look into the legion aspect which is how they fight. As this is a big part of the lvl 10-13th adventures I have planned. My mass combat didn't work like I wanted but I will have it ironed out by then.

HM


----------



## Spade

Dragonwriter said:


> From an optimization standpoint, you don't take Fighter past level 4 anyway. As you mentioned, Barbarian has several advantages over Fighter. Even Ranger (in Core, somewhat gimped) gets advantages over Fighter.




I don't particularly care about optimizing "TO THE MAX!" at this point since I'm mainly concerned with learning the general way of the game, so this is basically a question of curiosity, but why would Fighter be any worse then the other classes?

That's just based on what I've looked over in the PHB, admittedly I didn't read every class in detail since that would have taken a lot longer to do, so maybe in practice it turns out differently.


----------



## HolyMan

There's some kind of system out there that determines which classes are the most powerful at givin levels. And Fighter is on the short list of powerful classes as you advance.

I say that is all rules crunchers and roll-players. 

For me it's the RP that matters most, and getting your characters to obtain personal goals as well as quests set out before them.

Just play true to the character you have made and let the Dice Gods sort out the rest.

HM


----------



## Spade

Gotta agree with you there, RP and such is definitely the main allure for me. Though the battles sound fun too, and I'd think they'd be kind of RP-Aspects as well considering the whole Fantasy World Hero idea, so fights would be kind of a must to do that properly. 

I don't mean to harp on their thing, if they think it's fun to "crunch" like crazy then go for it and all that, but it sounds like it's kind of missing the point in a way.


----------



## Zerith

still need to get somethings don (History writen up, Description, picture, etc) but the WIP is posted in the RG.
so, comments?


----------



## HolyMan

NP Zerith I leave for work in 45 minsd so I will give him the go over tonight.

And see about getting you and Spade off adventuring. Or at least on guard duty.

HM


----------



## Zerith

alright, also, what thread will we be posting into?


----------



## Dragonwriter

Spade said:


> I don't particularly care about optimizing "TO THE MAX!" at this point since I'm mainly concerned with learning the general way of the game, so this is basically a question of curiosity, but why would Fighter be any worse then the other classes?




Nor was I suggesting you do so, merely making a statement/answering a question. Now allow me to explain. 
Fighters are at their best at low levels. They can take the hits, protect the squishy casters and still do something worthwhile. But eventually (for some, around 5-6th or so, maybe higher for others), the enemies start being able to avoid the Fighter... Or the Wizard starts using spells capable of instantly killing/neutralizing enemies, or do something to stop the foe, but it also stops the Fighter. Now, really, this is true of all melee classes.

But what sets the Fighter apart is his total lack of class features. Barbarians get Rage and it improves with levels, Uncanny Dodge, DR/-, and a bunch of other stuff; Paladins can smite and get a horse, plus the save booster and a little healing, and a handful of spells (which gets a lot better if Spell Compendium and Complete Champion are allowed); Ranger gets a handful of feats for free, due to Combat Style, gets a bonus on damage against some creature and gets a handful of spells (again, better if more books are allowed). (By the way, not including Monk in the comparison because Monks are... let's just say they're not worth the time. )
What does the Fighter get? A lot of feats... Okay, cool? But thing is, the best Fighter feats don't really stack up against the stuff the other classes are getting, and the "best" feats come at a high level, by which time the other classes have effectively left the Fighter in the dust.
(BTW, Fighter 4 nets you Weapon Spec. and two other bonus feats. That's generally seen as the best point to break off, since +2 damage for a reasonably-early feat isn't too shabby.)

There are a number of ways a Fighter can work to keep up, but they require extra books. Generally, the best way to have a good warrior-type for higher-level play is to make an archer. Archery still relies on Full Attack, but you don't have to chase/charge the foe, can still hit flying enemies and have an easier time running away.

Then you look at Wizards, Clerics and Druids... They can do all the tricks all the other classes can, and keep going (at high levels). Clerics can cast Detect Traps and possibly do better than the Rogue. Or Divine Power and make fun of the Fighter/Barbarian/whatever. Druid ties up the battlefield, lets his animal companion (oftentimes at least equal to a warrior-type) run wild and then turns into a bear, just for kicks, then summons a half-dozen pre-buffed animals. Wizard rewrites the laws of reality whenever he feels like it, or instantly kills a foe, etc.
You might say these spells are limited each day, but the Wizard casts Rope Trick and everyone is safe for another 8 hours while they rest and prep new spells. There are ways to force a party out of this trick/system/cycle, but it can be troublesome.

I hope this little explanation helped. I used to spend a significant amount of time at the old WotC Character Optimization forum (before stupid WotC broke their forums), so I've got some pretty serious CharOp knowledge/understanding.  
But where I differ is my preference of fun over power. For one thing, I stand by the credo of "A good optimizer builds to party power level," something not everyone understands. Too many folks just want to be the most powerful in the party. Don't get me wrong, I like to play a powerful character, but I don't do it to show up other folks or "be the best."



HolyMan said:


> There's some kind of system out there that determines which classes are the most powerful at givin levels.




Less of a system, more observation and comparison. Look at 20th-level Wizard and 20th-level Fighter. Fighter is essentially one of two things. He's either a Jack-of-All-Weapons or a Specialist (which is also usually a One Trick Pony). He can't fly (unless he grabbed UMD ranks or bought special boots), relies on an enhanced weapon... Wizard can spam Wail of the Banshee 4/day, plus bonus spells. Or Wish. Or Gate.
Let's knock the level down to 10th. Fighter is still either the Jack or the Specialist. Wizard can still auto-kill whatever he feels like, just a little less times/day (3 Phantasmal Killers/day, plus bonus spells).



Spade said:


> I don't mean to harp on their thing, if they think it's fun to "crunch" like crazy then go for it and all that, but it sounds like it's kind of missing the point in a way.




Different people enjoy different things. And it really depends on the group dynamic.

BTW, please don't make the mistake of thinking optimizers/powergamers can't or don't RP.


----------



## Spade

Ah, thanks for the little mini-guide. Although it sounds like all they need to do is give Fighter a couple of special abilities to compensate... I guess it's not that easy an issue to fix?



Dragonwriter said:


> BTW, please don't make the mistake of thinking optimizers/powergamers can't or don't RP.




Oh, I know. That would be kind of a silly assumption anyways, like saying everyone who likes potato chips hates tortilla chips or something stupid.

I just meant that it seems kinda like someone making sure the paint job on their car is perfect, when the engine and stuff is what's important. Except reversed, since the stats and whatnot are more like an engine? My metaphors suck.


----------



## Zerith

I Don't like potato chips but love tortilla chips: Nanchos are epic.
That said, I'm talking about the highly greesy potato chips, the BAKED potato chips are epic, and should be ate by all, or in place of all, should be mailed to me; so I can eat them!

Also, I agree. a lot of people want to be "the hero" and to be "the hero" you need to be strong in relation to everything. Thus even good RPers might choose to make an indomitable, invaluable walking suit of armor that walks through walls and... Ohhh... That said, you would be shocked how many ppl think they have to slay the big bad in the first encounter, and never think "Ok, this is is what, a bzilon tones of 11' 8" boss? what happens if we run across the rop brige while it lumbers after us?" ... But no... they try to take it out in at melee... yesh, who here wants to fight an epic level war golem in melee, at what amounts to level 3?

Er... I got off track again, but yesh, I... think I'll shut up nows and get back to work on the drawing of Alexander ^^;
In other news; after I do draw Alex, and make a his history, I might do a few drawings of other characters :3


----------



## jackslate45

one reason I enjoy pathfinder is that they gave fighters more things.  A level 20 fighter is amazing in PF. Go Here and see!

granted, does not really help in a 3.5 setting, but still.  Compare PF's fighter to 3.5 fighter.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Question - Is this right?

Longspear for HandCannon*
Quarterstaff for Greataxe**
  Sickle for Short Sword
  Javelin for Longsword
Sling for Heavy Shield
Dart for Light Shield

Not sure, but from what I see, you are trading individual simple weapons for martial weapons?  Plus, Sling/Dart for Shields, which you already have as class ability normally?  Does not sound very balanced honestly.

Fix might be to remove simple weapon proficiency altogether and pick a few weapons that you are only proficient with.  You have 4 listed above, and I am sure HM would allow a few like dagger and whatnot.

Just an observation.


----------



## Spade

jackslate45 said:


> one reason I enjoy pathfinder is that they gave fighters more things.  A level 20 fighter is amazing in PF. Go Here and see!
> 
> granted, does not really help in a 3.5 setting, but still.  Compare PF's fighter to 3.5 fighter.




Oh hey, that is pretty nifty stuff. 

To be honest I'm not entirely sure why some of it, Bravery for one as its just a simple Will Boost thing, wouldn't just get "patched" into 3.5 core or something.

But anyways, I guess I'm just waiting around now for HM to get off work or whatever so he can throw us in a thread?


----------



## Zerith

Shields are not classed as armor when used as weapons, when used to bash, they are considered martial. Meaning a character able to use shields of all kinds as well of armor but only has simple weapon proficiency can use the sheilds for the full AC bonus without taking a nagative to their attacks with their main weapon, but would take a -4 penalty if they tried to bash somone.
I think a noble with even the most basic training would know how to clobber the other guy in the face with one, keeping in mind, most are also feudal knights.

Also: their are a lot of martial weapons, 33, meanwhile, there are only 19 simple ones. That said, might, and probably will, remove the long sword and replace it with a rapier, that seems like a better choice for him; any thing that is light is golden 

Also, since he is still a WIP: I can still change his hair, its going to be black to gold to black and arranged into feather shaped clumps; yesh, he stands out in any kind of crowed, although I'm not sure if that will be ok for natural hair color ^^;

addon: ooo, I thought PF was closed content, might have to look into it :3
Addon two: I'm starting to see him as a more imposing figure, thus, massive groth spurt XD


----------



## HolyMan

Need to ask you why you wish to play this character and what you see for him in the end.

I must tell you I'm not liking the class with all it's additional rules maybe there is some way to get you what you want another way. 

But before all that talk I wish to know what you see him doing in combat at certain lvls and such. What his motives are and why he pursues this odd class?

Just for starts will you need stuff like craft wand and craft rods - your "spells" will make it so that your the only one who could use a wand you make. And as this game is about an army marching off to war a=the time to craft will be limited (not totally gone) so the amount of things you could make will be limited.

I don't see how you can change prof with a simple weapon for one that is martial (and therefore  should take more training to learn to wield). The cannon will be ok to "create" as I have done this within the rules for other gun like weapons. Will just use weapon stats for normal weapons but give them a different fluff. 

But let's just talk background and see what we come up with...

HM


----------



## HolyMan

[MENTION=6669366]Spade[/MENTION] please join me here for a little RP 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Speaking of RP Great job today everyone, I really enjoyed the read after a long day at work. 

I see bonus XP in the future (would hand out know but we are so close to the 15th )

HM


----------



## Spade

Alright! Was getting kinda antsy-pantsy too.


----------



## Zerith

That is acualy a very good question, orginaly I wanted to use him becuse he is one of the characters I've never relay gotten a chance to use, however, my images of him, for the purposes of the RP, has been evolving rapidly, the clockwork knight part of his character development has became more of an after thought, that is increasingly counter intuitive... it's amazing just how much insight you can get from drawing your characters as aposed to just wirting them up. 

At first I tacked on noble on for background flear, but it has been becoming an incressingly large part of the character. any ways, back onto point, now I'm starting to think he is more of an eldritch knight; might start him out as a fighter (but if their is a lighter martial class that still fights face to face let me knew) and then pick up wizard levels untill he can fling level 3 spells around.

As for what he is there to do, still the same, prove himself, without the perks of his title. .... hmm, going to have to rework him now.

Very good question ;


----------



## HolyMan

Zerith said:


> That is acualy a very good question, orginaly I wanted to use him becuse he is one of the characters I've never relay gotten a chance to use,




Than I truly wish to help you get your chance. 



> however, my images of him, for the purposes of the RP, has been evolving rapidly, the clockwork knight part of his character development has became more of an after thought, that is increasingly counter intuitive... it's amazing just how much insight you can get from drawing your characters as aposed to just wirting them up.




Not sure what your reflation was but so long as it helps with character development and or RP makes me happy.



> At first I tacked on noble on for background flear, but it has been becoming an incressingly large part of the character.




Wish to be related to any royality or maybe a step away? The education then would come into play. Your character has been schooled form the time he cold walk and has soent alot of time in the books.



> any ways, back onto point, now I'm starting to think he is more of an eldritch knight; might start him out as a fighter (but if their is a lighter martial class that still fights face to face let me knew) and then pick up wizard levels untill he can fling level 3 spells around.




Not sure but with the swapping rules you could tone down a martial class to be a little less umm... martial.



> As for what he is there to do, still the same, prove himself, without the perks of his title. .... hmm, going to have to rework him now.
> 
> Very good question ;




No problem but if you can get the basics down with a background you will not need crunch to RP in the Off to War thread.

HM


----------



## Spade

Oh wow, I didn't even notice that their names were pretty close - Just one letter difference between "Gareth" and "Jareth" - On top of the hair thing.

Good thing people in these things color code their text or it could get confusing.


----------



## Zerith

sadly this revelation blows the possibility to use him (the clockwork knight version) far off into the distance of an entierly different RP :/

that said, I think I'll like this character none the less ;3
addon: oh yes, the WIP of the character ;3
Addon2: Also, I think I'm going to trade the armor profs for two of those never used 2/2 feats and one that works off of them! ; ... I've gone mad.... Oh, wait, No, no that requires that I was sane to start with! I Haven't gone mad!!! I've been nuts from teh start! XD
Addon3: turns out the feats I was using were from 3.0... dang, I so wanted to sell a tindertwig hat to a troll; it sounded like alot of fun 
oh well, time to look at what else I can do though ^_^


----------



## Zerith

I think I added onto the above enough times, but mainly I'm Duble posting because I'm planing on making these trades: (keeping in mind I'm going to start out as a fighter)
[FONT=&quot]Class skill Climb for Diplomacy
Class skill Handle Animal for Gather information
Class skill Swim for Apprise
Class skill Jump for Bluff
Class skill Ride for Sense motive
Light Armor Prof. for [sblock=Master Linguist] Each time you gain a level, including the level at which you select this feat, you learn a new language (as if you had spent 1 skill point on the Speak Language skill).[/sblock]
Medium Armor Prof. for Persuasive
Heavy Armor Prof. for [sblock=Able Learner] All skill ranks cost 1 skill point for you to purchase, even if the skill is cross-class for you. The maximum number of ranks you can purchase in a cross-class skill remains the same. This feat does not affect the skill point cost to learn a language or to gain literacy (for a barbarian or other illiterate character).[/sblock][/FONT]

And I'm thinking of trading off tower and heavy shields as well, possibly for skill focus diplomacy and weapon finesse.


[Note1: axed Educated, replaced it with Negotiator; between Able Learner and getting class levels in wizard latter on it became just a +1 to two knowledge skills ^^;]
[Note2: lowering his Cha from 18 to 14 to around out his stats, alot.]


----------



## Spade

I might have just missed it, but I'm kinda curious where you're getting Master Linguist from. Don't think it's a core thing? mostly I'm asking because if there's some kind of like, I dunno, feat book or something, it might be worth looking at what I could pick on leveling up.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

The house rules say you can switch class features and abilities, does this encompass skills? If so I would like to trade off a few of Aver's skills for rogueie alternatives. Maybe all knowledges save Arcane, Profession, and Craft, for Hide, Disable Device, Open Lock, and Spot. This will help me meet PRC requirments if its allowed, but it also fits Aver's I don't have to study I'm just a genius attitude - he naturally grasps things swiftly but he does not listen well...

It also occurs to me that I traded light armor proficiency for cantrips at 1st, so gaining cantrips again as a 1st level wizard I would like to trade it for the Practised Spellcaster feat if I may - +4 caster level, but only up to your hit dice, so my caster level would become 2 instead of 1.


----------



## Zerith

I've been using this website to find feats, a good few of them are 3.0 though, so keep an eye out ^^;

And I did not think of temp trading an armor Prof. for catnips and then getting [FONT=&quot]Persuasive when he gets his first wizard level. Hmm! :3
[/FONT]


----------



## HolyMan

@AFg

I thought you got the Light armor back when you hit second lvl? It wasn't a swap just a way to make you a rogue/wizard at first lvl.

You should be swapping the light armor out for another feat. I think.

Also you wish to trade the skills from the wizard class to skills of the rogue class you already have? Is this so you don't have to spend two ranks to raise them at every wizard lvl?

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Zerith you sure are chopping up that fighter class sure there isn't a different class you would want to play? 

All your leaving is the BAB and Fort save. LOL

HM


----------



## Zerith

And the feat! 

But really, I'm just geting it for the weapons; need them to make him an eldritch knight, and I don't know of anything that has arcane spells and martial weapons, I would think about trying to find battle mages, but I'm not even sure if they hit spell level 3 by Character level 6-7
and now that I think of it, I could make him a barbarian and then fling all the clase features off to make him stronger over all... Gwah haha ha!... ... but that seems a bit to gamey >_<


----------



## Zerith

Hmm, know any good martial classes that get 3th level arcane spells by level 7?


----------



## HolyMan

ML wanted to play an EK and took the Militia feat for her first lvl wizard. Maybe you should do something like that? Swap it out for familiar.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Oh? ;
...
hmmm, that could work but now I'm balancing the feats from trading off fighter class features and getting to be a EK sooner... and the feats are making him more nobelish... Dang it, I should have just said nothing, ate the level in fighter and not made an ass of my self.
Hmmm, I think I'll just take the fighter level, then 6 in wizard before gaining EK levels; them having no real class features makes it easy to pout leveling up as one off :/

That and he just has to have a raven ^_^


----------



## Spade

I have no idea if this helps, but there's prestige classes in the DMG. Just looking through it I see an Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster (Which seems to be a magical thief?), and so on.


----------



## jackslate45

With Militia, you can hit Eldritch Knight at level 6 (5 Wizard /1 EK), instead of 7 like normal (5 Wizard/1 Fighter/1EK).  You mathematically cannot get EK sooner that 6.


----------



## Zerith

Ja, I think I'm going to go F, W, W, W, W, W, W, EK, EK, EK, etc (yes, that is 6 levels of Wizard)
Combat wis, he is going to be, very, quick and deliver a lot of touch spells while getting into position to use charm.sugestion; so by in large alot of low level spells (anything that can be, will be quickened ; ) but ya, with out the touch spells he is going to hit really really lightly. (Str 9, who hoo....)


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Yes its so I can avoid paying double, which might be a bit cheeky. Basically I need an 8 Hide, 8 Spot to enter my desired PRC - Unseen Seer - at 6th level. The rest of the ones I want are so that Aver keeps his roguish skills in hand.

Maybe I could throw his rogue proficiencies on the fire in order to retain the desired class skills?


----------



## HolyMan

So your saying you need eight Ranks? Which would be charatcer lvl 5. 

You know from what you say about Aver learning things easily like he does he might just benefit from Able Learner. But as soon as you take another lvl in rogue you could get enough points to send those ranks to eight each, so really I see no problem.

Right now I think we need to back track a bit and see what we had done at lvl 1 and were planning to do at lvl2.

And then decide on the build and go from there. Knowing what features you might get and what you will need would greatly help in deciding on what to swap and or not.

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

I'm not planning on taking another level of rogue, and Able Learner is human only I believe, certainly not available to elves sadly - a version of it would do the job nicely.

At 1st I 


gave up a feat for a familiar
gave up light armor proficiency - and maybe rogue weapon profs for cantrips.
Otherwise straight rogue.

This level I am hoping to


take a level of the Elf Generalist sub class - info posted in the RG.
trade redundant summon familiar for point-blank shot.
regain light armor proficiency and rogue weapon profs then trade for Practiced Spellcaster and maybe for a limited version of Able Learner?


----------



## Zerith

Hmm, I might toss in some Duelist levels after he tops off EK. :3
If we start out able to use a Familiar, do we have to pay the 100GP to summon it? if not I'll revise the list a tad.

First level:
[FONT=&quot]Class skill Climb for Diplomacy
Class skill Handle Animal for Gather information
Class skill Swim for Apprise
Class skill Jump for Bluff
Class skill Ride for Sense motive
Light Armor Prof. for [sblock=Master Linguist] Each time you gain a level, including the level at which you select this feat, you learn a new language (as if you had spent 1 skill point on the Speak Language skill).[/sblock]
Medium Armor Prof. for Persuasive
Heavy Armor Prof. for [sblock=Able Learner] All skill ranks cost 1 skill point for you to purchase, even if the skill is cross-class for you. The maximum number of ranks you can purchase in a cross-class skill remains the same. This feat does not affect the skill point cost to learn a language or to gain literacy (for a barbarian or other illiterate character). [/sblock]
Tower Shield Prof. for Arcane catnips, as per wizard
Heavy Shield Prof. for Weapon Finesse
Light Shield Prof. for Skill Focus Diplomacy
[/FONT][wooo, long list ; ]


Second level:
[FONT=&quot]Trade redundant Arcane catnips[/FONT] for Combat Casting
Trade redundant Class skill Craft for ... I realy have no clue XD


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## Fangor the Fierce

Shield Proficiency covers light and heavy shields.  I am assuming you would only get one feat for replacing Shield Proficiency.

Plus, am I seeing 5 feats as first level character?  Seems a bit high to me.  Where is the growth that we are accustomed to seeing with characters leveling?


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## Spade

Uh, you realize that not having Light Armor means that absolutely ANY armor you wear will give a ACP to combat and stuff in addition to the ACP that's always on Skill Checks?

I mean, go for it, but I'm just pointing it out if you didn't realize.


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## Zerith

Not five at level one, nine,  there is an other 3 4 from level one, Human, fighter and hose rule, so yah ^^;

That said, only picking up one combative feat: The other four is a case of him being able to be a big mouthed noble and even then he is only going to have one skill above the 8 mark, Diplomacy, and it is going to be a 10 as is. the kicker, 5 of the feats he is getting here are focused on him rambling on and on. If I just wanted to cheese him, he would be cleaving off heads with a rapier XD

As for none tower shields only counting as one feat: interesting. Good to know, might have to give up focus. :3

As for armor; ya, I know, but I figure he is not really going to be using it because of the fail chance, and it would be awkward for him to go from being armored to being unarmored latter on. Also, "Masterwork Magic Clothing" Clothing with a Enchantment bonus to armor! Because you know the snotty nobles got them 

and as for not having shields: Abjuration [force] + shield = Nuff said 

That said I'll work with the confines of what I'm allowed :3

Addon: As for the growth part; as it stands he is an average combatant, very quick but still average; with the ability to use a few cat nips, and possibly a familiar depending on if we have to shell out 100GP off bat.
you're not going to see him being able to pull off any great feat, aside from maybe talking the ears off of an ally who is on the wall: he is going to be a bit of a face character, so yesh, trying to make up for the 2 base skill points per a level from his class at level that all most all his classes will have: he is not going to be doing any great feats, except maybe running about quickly in hit and run attacks because he wont be able to stand toe to toe with real melee combatants for a long time.


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## HolyMan

*For: Aldern Foxglove*

Where's Aver's background I thought I read some stuff on him before? About him exploring human lands and such?

I don't think that I gave you feat replacements that when would become redundant. I thought you told me you were going to go wizard at LvL 2 and wanted the cantrips and familiar already established. We were to trade out your first lvl feat and most of the rogue weapon prof and light armor. Than when you lvl'ed you were to get them back along with the other abilities of a wizard you didn't have.

So here's what you should have for feats, skills, and abilities:

*Feats:* +2/+2(stealthy), 1st lvl?? (PBS), scribe scroll (G.wizard lvl1), Armor Prof. Light (rogue)
*Skills:* every skill a class skill but - Handle Animal, Heal, Ride, Speak Language, and Survival
*Skill Points:* 69 pts.
*Class Abilities:* sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, summon familiar, generalist wizardry, spellcasting, spellbook, Prof w/ all simple weapons, Prof w/ hand crossbow, rapier, sap, short bow, short sword, longsword, long and short bow (and composites)

Going over your character I see the highlighted stuff missing. As it is Aver loks like he isn't prof with any weapon. I know it is like a givin that you have this weapon prof or that or since you have one lvl of Rogue you have trapfinding and sneak attack. But not so with the swap rules. If you were to play it as is I would say just paste in a link to the class in the srd. 

Looking at Aver I see a few things I have a question about or think are wrong and a few things we could swap and have him set.

First - 
 - Class is Rogue/Wizard and level should be listed as 1/1
 - Hit Doce should be 1d6+1d4+2
 - Shortbow dmg is 1d6
 - Feats should list where they are from
 - Skill points still listed as 60 but 69 are spent
 - Spot/Listen modifiers listed as +4 but have it marked as racial and not racial + familiar
 - Spells per day list zero lvl as 5 but should be 3/day
 - no racial abilities listed or bonuses (like the +2 to save vs charm and compulsion)
 - No class abilities listed and or weapon Prof (which is the big one)

Now I see an easy fix here as you have listed what you want i.e. Precise Shot as a feat and everything else you should already have.

You could trade out Light armor prof for Precise Shot if you wish and you are set plus have all your weapon prof. intact 

********************************************

Now about skills as class skills. I see this a little differently. I don't see it as a class thing but a way a character focuses themselves due to enviroment, people in thier lives (i.e. watching some do a certain skill), and other factors. Which certainly class plays a big part.

A wizard who spends lvl after lvl as an apprentice and studying everyday is alot different from the traveling wizard who learns on his own while trying to survive in the wild. The first would have Know-planes as a class skill from studying large tomes on them. The second would not so much have that as a class skill, but would swap it out for Hide which is very useful when ogres are around.

Or like my two fighter comparison one growing up in a city running the streets would have different "class" (or better yet focus) skills than one who grew up in a small village deep in the forest. 

I see Aver as a Rogue and not really a wizard. To me wizardry is something he picks up because everyone says you need to study hard - study long but he snaps his fingers and _*snap*_ like that he picks it up. He studies it because it is interesting and may help in future endeavors so he is now giving it more focus, but deep down he is all rogue.

This brings me to skills. Although he maybe studying his spellbook a little more each day and wandering about the use of a spell or what it would be like to fly he is still out and about in the world and you need certain skills to survive (or quick feet).

I think you need only make some swaps of your wizard skill list for those survival skills. Here's a short list of wizard skills Aver would probably not focus on and could swap out. If you do they need to be listed even if you don't put ranks in the one you swap for. Kind of like we are customing a class to serve the concept.

- Knowledge Skills to swap out:
Arcitecture & Engineeringdungeonerring
geography
nature
religion
planes

Again he would have passing knowledge of this stuff not the devoted knowledge which comes for being able to get 1 Rank for 1 point. That would give you 6 class skills and you could trade out Scribe Scroll for 2 more.

Sorry it's so long just wanted to get it all out.

HM


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## HolyMan

Sorry Zerith I don;t like the Master Linguist and besides it isn't really neccesary and will mess up part of the campagin plan for higher lvls.

Again sorry. 

Also there is no redundant cantrips if you are going to be taking wizard as your second lvl and want the cantrips early we can work something out.

And would not allow one feat to be able to cast spells anyway but would give you an SLA so many times per day instead.

Lastly you are tearing up the fighter class for non fighter feats why don't we do something different. I mean why would you have training in almost every weapon and not have any armor or shield training? I don't like people taking fighter just so they can get a bunch of feats for one thing. I would have them trade all shield proficiencies out for a bonus not one for one, And for another your following the rules sure, but not the spirit of them.

HM


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## Spade

I'm probably just ignorant here, but a lot of that stuff seems redundant anyways, like you could probably find a class with some of those already and then just swap in whatever you don't want with the rest or something - But I don't actually know what class that would be.

Does seem like you just want the BAB and such though without having to actually be that class...


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## Aldern Foxglove

Right that fits nicely, but I would like to say give up rogue proficiencies for Practiced Spellcaster if that is viable. Say loose all the special rogue proficiencies and simple weapon proficiency to leave him with wizard and elven proficiencies?

Skills wise, I will trade out those listed for Disable Device, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Spot. I think that covers all the bases very nicely - I really do not see Aver as a good listener, lol.

I've made all the suggested changes and added in all the class abilities and proficiencies. I'll also list class skills. I will but the unapproved weapon proficiencies swap in red for the moment until I hear back on it.


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## HolyMan

Looks good you may swap the weapon profs in red for Practiced Spellcaster.

Looks like you have yourself a roguish wizard now. 

HM


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## Aldern Foxglove

Great! Happy with that.


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## Zerith

Shields, I actually have a good reason for him not using one, a ring with Shield as a continues effect, possibly mage armor on it as well; one would come to 2,000 GP (3,500 GP if it also has mage armor) costly sure, but by no means out of reach by any noble; I’m actually shocked nobles don’t use said rings as generic items ;

as for not using armor, again, enchanted clothes, 16,150 GP for 4 AC though. :/
The odd thing; the 3,500 GP ring gives a total of 8 AC, sure you can’t stack it with the spells it is granting but they’re always on if you so wish, so that’s an extra two 1st level spells if you’re a mage. In short, with just the ring you’re talking about as much protection as full plat armor without any of the encumbrance. Alternatively you’re talking about more protection than a breast plate and a heavy shield. Could even make the ring have the armor enchantment bonus, but that is more costly than just making the cloths being enchanted.
(Additionally, mage armor does not seem to stack with normal armor, so unless the armor is breast plate +, the ring’s mage armor is as good or better, and the ring’s shield is as good as a tower shield. so if a character is going to use magic, the ring is better then armor)

As for being trained in all the martial weapons and not in armor, not rely planning on him using anything else then a rapier by in large. But he needs “all martial weapons” to be an EK. And even proficient with them, he uses none finessable weapons at -1 instead of a +2 (he has 14 Dex)

Sadly for Alexander however, him proving himself without the things granted to him by his house, means he would have to give up said ring of magical armors, and his build is to light to easily accommodate armor ^_^;
___

Also, I would still like to know if starting off with familiars means we still have to spend the 100 GP needed in the familiar’s summoning.
___

By redundant catnips I trading for them at level one, and then when attaining them again when the character gets his first level in wizard, undoing the trade used to get them at level one to get something else.

Example:
First level; Shield Prof. for catnips
Second level; Traded for, now redundant, catnips for Combat Casting

Basically barrowing Catnips while using Combat Casting as the collateral
(and if familiars don’t need 100GP off bat I’d like to do the same with them as well.)


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## Aldern Foxglove

I think you need to reread the item creation rules Zerith. For example the Ring of Forceshield which is a +2 shield bonus for 8000gp - I would price a ring of continuous shield at a minimum of 36000gp - probably closer to 40000gp as the negate magic missile ability is stronger than the 1500gp Brooch of Shielding.  And there are already Mage Armor items, the Bracers of Armor and a +4 set cost 16000gp.

I suggest you look at the Magic Item Compendium pricing break down its very helpful. Heck I'll post it - shhh, nobody tell!

[sblock=Common Magic Item Effects]





[/sblock]


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## Spade

> but by no means out of reach by any noble; I’m actually shocked nobles don’t use said rings as generic items ;




Nobles tend to, at least from what I've noticed in various settings + history, not be very fond of being in a position where they can get stabbed in the first place so that would actually be something of a waste of gold to them.


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## Zerith

@Spade
The ring can be worn at all items and helps you avoid getting stabbed by an assassin and is not stuffy, uncomfortable or out of place at a formal gathering. This is like insurance, and would be worn for the same reason as they hire body guards. for protection. History says political figures like to hide behind armor, but they also hate being inconvenienced, the ring is no bother and is a Lot of protection
___

@Aldern Foxglove
I just looked and I did miscalculate the price, twice (forgot that continuous magic items that use spells that normally last 1 minut/level are X2 cost and miss read a cost modifier), but you and I are using different means of getting our bonuses here.

I'm using the magic item with a continues spell route: Spell level X Caster level X 2,000 GP
So the shield, by it self is 4,000 (Spell level one, Caster level one, one minute/level duration) and then 6,000 with the mage armor

Your using a flat enchantment bonus route: Bonus X Bonus X 1000
This way ties on AC per GP only up to 1 AC, but gets starkly less benefit per a GP as it increases, that said, you can easy upgrade this kind of ring, the above ring can't be upgraded nearly as effectively, that said, by the time you need to losing 6k gold is not going to kill you, I think...

Also, who would ever take a brooch of shielding? 1,500 GP to defend against one first level spell for a set amount of damage? Magic weapon of +1 stabing is only 500 more and you can kill the guy with it, unlimited times.
I would much rather spend a mere 800 GP on a Floaty rock of Cure miner wounds: heal 1 HP, unlimited times, and takes up no item slot. or you can make it into a wand for 400 GP, again, no charge limit :/

Yesh, I loath one off items. Also, if I was going to get the ring of noble armor (so what I'm going to call it...) it would start out a a cast once a day item and then upgrade to 2 times a day, 3 times a day, then four, and finally, consent (in the case of the sheild it would need to get up to 10 times a day worth before it became consent)

Also Hostess, it's the good stuff. ^_^


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## Dragonwriter

I believe you are missing a few things... Custom magic items are 1) directly DM-dependent for authorization; 2) balanced against existing magic items; 3) governed by rules repeatedly shown to be absurd.

Trying to make a ring to provide a constant Shield effect (+4 Shield to AC, counts for Touch; immune to Magic Missible) is far more potent than items at the same price of 4,000 GP. For that 4k, you can nab (at best) +2 to AC (whether enhancement of armor, Gloves of Dex +2, a Ring of Protection +1 and Amulet of Natural Armor +1, etc.).
Limited uses/day would bring it to a more balanced level. But a constant +4 AC and immunity to one of the most common attack spells should certainly be priced at higher than 4,000 GP. It would really be more in line with Bracers of Armor +4 and a multiplied cost of a Brooch of Shielding. Personally, I'd place the price somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 GP.

As for constant Mage Armor effect, it's already around. Bracers of Armor +(X). Your desired +4 bonus is priced at a low, low bargain of 16k GP. 

Definitely look at the pre-existing items and the spells needed to make them. Such things will give you a clearer idea of how to make and price a given item.


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## Spade

Zerith said:


> @Spade
> The ring can be worn at all items and helps you avoid getting stabbed by an assassin and is not stuffy, uncomfortable or out of place at a formal gathering. This is like insurance, and would be worn for the same reason as they hire body guards. for protection. History says political figures like to hide behind armor, but they also hate being inconvenienced, the ring is no bother and is a Lot of protection




It blends, sure, and it's obviously a just-in-case, but I think you're overestimating how many nobles actually mean anything politically, much less would yield a benefit if they were to die.


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## HolyMan

> Also, I would still like to know if starting off with familiars means we  still have to spend the 100 GP needed in the familiar’s summoning.




NO you do not spend 100 gp starting off you get the first familiar free any others (after death of the free one) cost 100gp.

I don't get this character at all. You wish to play a fast talking, high CHA high INT warrior mage whose the worst warrior in the world? 

I can get into being a noble and setting out after perhaps being told that he would be no benefit to helping defeat the Treylor (and the other bakground hook we talked about - shhhh! ) but I can't see him being taught how to fight although physically he was not the best at it. And then he learns some cantrips but isn't taught general spells like mage armor, sleep, and magic missle even though he dreams of one day being a warrior mage.

Right now he is neither. He doesn't fight well or cast spells?!? And although I like the noble armor signet ring idea (as many of the PCs have them) Ask anyone whose been playing magic items are rare in Off to War.

Trinham is 5th lvl and has one item. And that's a wand an not permanent. 

Your best bet is to take Beguiler and the Militia Feat. I won't allow you to tear up fighter like you have listed. It isn't a class anymore just random feats that relate to nothing why would you be trained or if you were self taught it doesn't relate enough for me (two here, two there but all four not linking a little is to odd).

Beguiler would give you the skills you wish and 8 + INT skill points. You will have a little armor and can cast in it have some different abilities and be a dexterous EK in the end like you wish to be.

HM


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## Zerith

Spade, killing a noble can dramatically shift things. for one,  inheritance, one child is favored and going to get most of the  inheritance, but is killed, so a the inheritance is changed, swift and  definitive change, then you have only childs getting whacked off, this  removed the hair apparent and if there is no other true hair to take their  place, this can case chaos. perhaps not kingdom wide if you talking  about a countship with out an hair, particularly with an aging monarch.  you also have the possibility of taking care of the king, count, duke,  whatever. Fact is, there are numerous reasons to want to axe a noble,  and the only way nobles stay ahead of the curve is protection. and even  if you go down the noble food chain to very miner ones, killing a  trusted adviser can have massive, and predictable, repercussions.

Youy can axe Noble A: Noble A was Advising Noble B, who runs just about  every thing, Noble C also advises Noble B, but had a dramatically different outlook on every thing, and the two, A and C, hate one another.  depending on B; he might, in one form or an other, axe C and embraced  A's mind set: if your D and A was your pawn, axing A to further your  goals and neutralize the competition can be very helpful.

Point is, Nobles should be seen as offices, Offices that com from a  highly elite and small pool of individuals, the line of succession is  clear to see and
best part, nobles in higher  positions with out a proper heir can have  their position go unfilled for years while the lesser nobles try to get  the position for themselves, you can even shatter a kingdom by taking out the king at the right time. This can be even more problematic, or even necessary in war time(incompetent rulers are deadly).  Keep in mind, Nobles range from the smallest, that amount to modern day  small town mayors and police chiefs,  to full blown rulers, and they  don't have elected replacements, they have kids who may or may not be  ready to take over their parents responsibilities. Who would you rather  face as the leader of a nation: A veteran ruler who has been proven as a  warrior and a general of armies plural, or their snot nosed child who  has always got their way and knows nothing of logistics and thinks if  they say "do it" every thing will be done as they commanded regardless  of the odds?

In a conflict of Nobles Vs Nobles you might have a code that amounts to  "no assassinating other nobles", but in the end, killing off nobles is  nothing to be take lightly; think of it this way, how many pesents do  you have per a noble? How many solders per a noble? and of those ten or  so nobles in a thousand how many are in a influential position or have a  real shot at ascending into one? Not-enough if someone starts offing  them. 

Point I'm making is: its a bigger lose to loose a king then it is to  loose a president and its a bigger lose to loose noble then a mayor.  Nobles are in place for decades and their indefinite replacement is  standing buy to take their place, but the replacement might not have it's  own replacement. depends on how many kids the original noble had, and  if those kids had kids. Noble based governments are extra vulnerable to getting their heads chopped off.

There is also the part of unsatisied pesents taking things into their own hands, you don't need a full blown revolt or even a major problem to be on the chomping block, you need one faceless drown that "has had it" to come along and kill their direct governing noble. now, success may very, but there are countless risks.

And in the case of protective rings, these things don't have life spans, it just takes one scared noble in the past to have one made, and then every head of that noble hose from then on has a protective ring; they might even improve said ring or just have a better one made from scratch and give the old one off to their hair. this is not a case of "why would a noble have one" its more of a case of "why the hell would they not?" if you ask me any ways; I just don't see a reason for a noble of notable rank could not have such a ring, or other item, warn at all times.

... I'll stop this line of text now... I ramble to much and my brain is feeling like pop rocks.

@DW, ... and AF
When you say it that way I have to admit my newbies, But I am still right, in my mind... (Hallow as it is, I think it's echoing something about napping and Nachos...)

@HM

not the worst, just very very light. in a PC to PC warrior mach, ya, he would suck, but PC to NPC he would be competent in melee without spells, would be close depending on the NPC, but in general, not somone who can just be written off in melee unless you're exceptional, like most melee PCs who are tailer built to do melee combat. that said, being able to use spells gives him the ability to fight said characters on par amusing the fight starts at melee.
That said, his melee ability would be highly focused on mobility (but do to him always being on stable and flat ground, he could be readily slowed by adverse terrain)
One part he would acutely excel at in melee would be engaging and disengaging, but at the same time, he would not do well if he could not do so. (get in close, deliver a touch attack, back off, recast, run back in, etc)

With his present build out, that it seems I'll be reworking, his curent Combat related feats are:

[FONT=&quot][sblock=Expeditious Dodge] When you move 40 feet or more in a single turn, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to your Armor Class until the beginning of your next turn.[/sblock]
Fleet of Foot [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Weapon Finesse
Mobility [/FONT]
[just a note, I was purposely trying to avoid geting combat related feats through trade ins, with the exception of Finesse, to avoid making cheese, if you would rather he trade fighter features for combative abilities I can work with that as well]


that said, I'll look into this Beguiler cass... Know were I can find it? ^^;
...Also, I hop I did not make myself look foolish for the 537th time this weak ;

Addon: just looked and this post seems to be about the long as what I aim for IC, if not as dense ^^;


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## Spade

Zerith said:


> Buncha Noble Stuff




All true, except the offices bit. Nobles are not officials in many instances, but relatives of someone who is/was - Additionally, they do not really have ranks unless they actually are officials or otherwise important. All Dukes and Lords are Nobles, but not all Nobles are Dukes and Lords. I forget what logical fallacy that was, but it seems to be apropos for the discussion. 

What I was actually saying is you overestimate how many nobles this kind of political chess match applies to - Even if it might cause an upset of some manner, assassination is only worthwhile if _the person behind it stands to gain from it_. If there's no benefit, it won't happen.

[sblock=Socio-Political/Historical-Philosophy/BLAH-BLAH]People rarely, if ever, go out of their way to assassinate people when they don't have anything to gain from it - The only example I can imagine would be an ethical or such conflict, in which case the gains are still minimal at best, such as a sense of satisfaction that someone with opposing ideals is dead now or some other intangible benefit. 

Even that is something most Nobility wouldn't have to worry about, as few of them would go against the grain of accepted ethics/morality in an extreme enough manner to draw attention. But you might be thinking more of a blood feud thing, which again is extremely circumstantial and would likely hardly extend to anything outside the main family - Cousin's and the like would usually be left alone.

As for revolution? That only works out when they are truly willing to go the distance with it, often easily cowed or swayed out of that course of action by fear or temporary satisfaction. The most successful attempt I can think of off-hand was in Russia with the Czar and his family, but that was hardly all Nobility everywhere in Russia even though they did essentially erase his entire bloodline.

[sblock=Fun History Fact!]In an example of the kind of stuff you mentioned, Oda  Nobunaga protected himself by acting like he was a moron who posed no  threat, instead of arming himself with whatever protections he could and attempting to overpower people. 

You  might know that because of this, he survived the turmoil largely  unscathed and later conquered a third of Japan. [/sblock][/sblock]

I'm by no means saying you cannot have your character be a noble in which these are valid concerns, simply that stating that it's a fact of life with Nobles is, frankly, ridiculous.


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## Zerith

Fact: Yes. Absolute rule: No.

And their are lots of reasons to kill nobles, as I said before. also, if you start assassinating a lot of the bottom end Nobles you will case a panic and all the nobles, even one's you could not normally get to, will start to get paranoid and then they will take extra pains in security. while this sounds like it has nothing gain, it dose, it can make them slower to react.  might not make them much slower in most cases, but delaying _the carvery_ by just a few moments can mean failure or success on the battlefield. If the noble's who's relatives you're whacking was paranoid to start with, he/she might start accusing their own staff of being in on it. Firther, you gota feild test your assasions somehow, and hiting softer targs as warm ups can help let them become masters. Losts of reasions, and in some cases, reasions not to; if the leader of your enamy is not a very good one, kill the advisers and then your left  with an enemy army of lions. But said army is lead by a lemming, show it a cliff. ^_^

My point is, it's all but imposable to know every resign why and why not to whack any given noble, and Oda being smart enough to make it look like his foes would be hurt by his death, as apposed to gaining from it, is just proving that he knew this reality very well ;3


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## Zerith

Found the Beguiler class, think I could trade trap finding for the rest of the marital weapons?


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## HolyMan

Zerith said:


> Found the Beguiler class, think I could trade trap finding for the rest of the marital weapons?




If that is your only swap than I am all for it 

HM


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## Zerith

The only big one, I'll likely fling some skills around as well, I want him to have a large presence when he is in a room with a lot of knowledge, I don't particularly care if he can fill out all of the roles of a rogue.
now I'm just thinking if I want him to keep able learner, he has just went from a feat surplus to a feat deficit :/

But over all, a very good class match up for him, would have liked some touch spells, but that is me initially wanting to meta game and not the character's abilitys per say :3
Also, I like that it has speak language as a class skill XD
(and 4 more skill points per a level! )
9 at level one, Mwah haha ha! XD 
[this said, he is not going to load up with them at every level, I think he will cap out at around 13, (this includes common, dwarvn, gnome, gnoll, goblin haffling, and undercommon, his two "exotic" ones are Auran and Draconic, might toss in Celestial as well though, other wise, giant and ork. this said, don't expect him to be too flaunt in all of them XD)]

These are not the droids you're looking for ;

oh ya, would I have to wait till 3th level to get Obtain Familiar?


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## HolyMan

I thought it what you were looking for to.

And yes it does relate to rogue but as I see it you are going for a sneaky type caster are you not? Spell swapping may be allowed maybe for a beguiler certain spells are a higher lvl we will see. The spell list is limited.

Speaking a lot of languages was never a big thing for this campaign. Now having said that and you wish for a Linguist type character still, I will of course change that as most can attest to I will mold the game around the characters where I can. Maybe upon reaching the city it will come in handy.

And yes I like the way that feat(Obtain Familiar) is written allowing wizards and sorcerer a little benefit like having a familiar form the get go. Other spell casters having to wait and pay the 100gp so they really need to decide if it is what they want.

HM


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## Zerith

Hoping to get him up latter today, that said, Picture is finished. his stature got bumped up to 6'3" and the Finnal Coloration will be, entirely, Black and gold, exept for his skin and the whites of his eyes ;
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f135/Forest_Herder/Drawings/TFKAlexanderRavensworth.jpg

Comments? :3
Also, think I could trade Rouse for [FONT=&quot]Prestidigitation and Mage Hand? (one level 1 for two Level 0s)
[/FONT]


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## Spade

That's actually not half bad, definitely has the noble feel to it.


----------



## HolyMan

Yes the picture is good of Alexander. 

I was looking at the zero lvl spells first and it seems a Beguiler almost gets everyone of them to start or close so adding in a few to make a unique caster is alright.

So in your character sheet you should have a spot for additional spells those two you mentioned are ok to add for free.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Oooo, thank you :3
Alright, posted edited it to current. I"ll see about getting his Knowledge rolls up my tomorrow though :3
(as a noble, it would be stupid to say he, or his hose, is unknown, that said, don't expect his roles to be easy to make )


----------



## HolyMan

You added the damage right Spade. Wish I had time to extend the round but I have a dinner date with the gf I need to get ready for while I'm downloading WotBS modules.

Will move it forward tonight midnight my time after XP. Hope to see you then.

HM


----------



## Spade

lol, no problem. I have no idea when midnight for you is though, what state are you in?

Edit: Oh duh, Maryland. The MD thing threw me off, you'd think it'd be something like MY or ML or even MA. 

Yay for google, though!  Google also says you're three hours ahead of me, so if that's right, then you'll be back around 9?


----------



## HolyMan

The great state of Maryland  3,000 miles and 3 time zones from you.

Edit: correct I will be on before then but wish to go over characters (like Zerith's) and all before posing XP

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Spade said:


> lol, no problem. I have no idea when midnight for you is though, what state are you in?
> 
> Edit: Oh duh, Maryland. The MD thing threw me off, you'd think it'd be something like MY or ML or even MA.
> 
> Yay for google, though!  Google also says you're three hours ahead of me, so if that's right, then you'll be back around 9?




Also, if you look back through this thread to the various EXP posts, you'll see the usual time HM posts. He's pretty good about posting EXP around the same time as always. For those of us in the Pacific timezone, we get our EXP between 9 and 10 PM.  While the Brits among us are well into the next day...

And of course, Daylight Savings Time tosses a monkey wrench into the works... I loathe DST.


----------



## Spade

Ahah, I see. That's pretty cool, consistent punctuality!

Also yes, DST is the stupidest thing. >.>


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Feb 1st - Feb 15th*



		Code:
	

Player                        XP
Spade                        365
Zerith                        55
ghostcat                     600
Aldern Foxglove              470
Fangor the Fierce            535
jackslate45                  330
Dragonwriter                 650
Lughart                       40


*CONGRATS to jackslate45 for reaching LvL 2 *

NOTE: 
Spade's XP includes his 5xp for posting in the RG and Background XP
Zerith's XP reflect his 5xp for posting in the RG and Background XP

HM


----------



## Spade

Whoa, didn't expect to get that much XP already, considering I haven't done much of anything yet. Not complaining though!


----------



## HolyMan

I don't give out XP for "doing stuff" which usually translates to fighting monsters. I give it for posting and you did post 15 times the past 5 days. So there you go.

Actually you get no XP for beating up monsters just so you know. Running is allowed. 

HM


----------



## Spade

Ah, okay. And yeah, I figure I might have to run some of the time - Even right now, actually. Regenerating Hydra's are scary.


----------



## HolyMan

*RED INK* time

*Lord Alexander Julian Ravensworth, IV.* Longest name to date and didn;t fit in the Roll Call lol
*Chaotic Neutral, Beguiler*

*Strength: *9
*Dexterity*: 14
*Construction*: 10
*Intellect*: 18
*Wisdom*: 12
*Charisma:* 14

*Size:* Medium
*Type:* Humanoid (human)
*Age:* 17
*Height:* 6' 3"
*Weight:* 169 lb
*Eyes:* Black outer irises that abruptly turns dazzling golden in a ring around the pupils.
*Hair:* Brilliant and golden in the middle; raven black at the ends and roots with no gradation
*Skin:* Light tan
[sblock=Description] Alexander has the iconic hair of the house  Ravensworth nobles: it naturally forms into feather like locks, no  matter how long or short it is cut, with a pattern, which abruptly  changes from black to gold then to black again, that mimics the natural V  strip found in feathers on any given lock of hair.
Alexander’s a normal hair cut has four locks forming bangs, the two  towards the middle are much shorter the outer two and drop down to the  point that they moderately fall below his eyebrows; the longer two fall  down beside his face and frame it while dropping down to be level with  his mouth. All four of his bangs shoot up before bending down into their  specified resting places; if pulled strait down, they would obscure his  eyes and cover his face’s length respectively.
The rest of his hair forms into what could be described as a feathery  mane that surrounds his face, and hides his ears. Those seeking his  wrath could also say his hair style looks like an odd sun flower.

His eyes are possibly more striking than his hair; they’re fairly large  and abruptly change from a near black gray at the outer irises to a  blinding golden hue before hitting the void of his pupils.
  Another, less noticeable though still distinguishing, trait Alexander  has is cruelly sharp looking teeth from his canines back, causing him to  grin threateningly if he does much more then crack an acute smile,  something he is well aware of.

His clothing is of fine black fabric and is highly durable, his leather  boots and gloves have the same cloth alchemically cured onto them. His  clothing is also detailed with golden embroidering that extends all the  way from his boots to his cape and mantle; the only visible items of  clothing that does not share the golden detailing are his pants and  gloves, which are simply black.
the viable elements of Alexanders Clothing are: Boots, Cape and Mantle,  Coat, Overcoat, Undershirt, its snug fitting collar is all that is  viable is the top of it can be seen coming up from beneath the more  loose fitting Coat collar; Pants, and Gloves.

Alexander[/sblock]

*Languages: *Auran, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Gnoll, Hafling, and Undercommon.
*Proficiencies:* Simple and Martial weapons, Light armor. plus hand crossbow
 *
Total hit points*: 6 (1d6)
*Speed: *30’

*Armor Class:* 12/16 = 10 [base] + 2 [dexterity] + 4 [Mage Armor; when active]
*Touch AC:* 12/16
*Flat-footed:* 10/14

*Initiative modifier:* + 2 = + 2 [dexterity]
*Fortitude save:* + 0 = 0 [base] + 0 [Constitution]
*Reflex save:* + 2 = 0 [base] + 2 [Dexterity]
*Will save:* + 3 = 2 [base] + 1 [Wisdom]
*Attack (handheld, Normal):* - 1 = 0 [BAB] – 1 [Strength]
*Attack (handheld Finesse-able weapon):* + 2 = 0 [BAB] + 2 [Dexterity]
*Attack (missile):* + 2 = 0 [BAB] + 2[Dexterity]
*Grapple check: *- 1 = 0 [BAB] – 1 [Strength]

[sblock=Caster Level 1] 
Spells per a day:

-Level 0: 5
-Level 1st: 4

Additional spells:
-Level 0: [FONT=&quot]Prestidigitation and Mage Hand[/FONT] just extra advanced learning 
[/sblock]

Light load: 30 lb. or less
Medium load: 31-60 lb.
Heavy load: 61-90 lb.
Lift over head: - 90 lb.
Lift off ground: - 180 lb.
Push or drag: - 450 lb.

the above should be listed under equipment

[sblock=Skills]
Skill Points: 52 = [8 (class) + 4 (INT) x 4 (lvl 1)] + 4 (human)
Max Ranks: 4/2
ACP: -0

Skills:
  Ride                                            +2 = 2 [ranks] +2 [Dex] able learner means this cost 2 pts less for two ranks correct? and mark cross-class skills please
Diplomacy                                 +8 = 4 [ranks] + 2 [Cha] + 2 [Negotiator] 
Bluff                                            +6 = 4 [ranks] + 2 [Cha] 
  Gather information                  +6  = 4 [ranks] + 2 [Cha]
Intimidate                                  +6 = 4 [ranks] + 2 [Cha] 
Sense Motive                             +8 = 4 [ranks] + 2 [Cha] + 2 [Negotiator]
  Use magic Device                     +4 = 2 [ranks] + 2 [Cha]
Knowledge (arcane)                 +8 = 4 [ranks] + 4 [Int] 
Knowledge(nobility&royalty) +8 = 4 [ranks] + 4 [Int] why is this black?
Knowledge (geography)          +6 = 2 [ranks] + 4 [Int]
  Knowledge (history)                 +6 = 2 [ranks] + 4 [Int]
Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) +6 = 2 [ranks] + 4 [Int] 
Appraise                                    +6 = 2 [ranks] + 4 [Int]
  Spell Craft                                  +8 = 4 [ranks] + 4 [Int]
Concentration                           +4 = 4 [ranks] + 0 [CON]
Speak Language                  4 ranks [Auran, Gnome, Halfling and Undercommon]
[/sblock]

[sblock=feats]
[Level 1] Weapon Finesse
[Racial Bonus] Able Learner
[House rule] Negotiator
[/sblock]


[sblock=Items]

Horse, light 75Gp
Riding Saddle 10 Gp 25Lb
Saddlebags 4Gp 8Lb
Feed(5 days) 25Cp 50Lb




Explorer’s Outfit 10Gp 60Lb (Worn)
Traveler’s Outfit 0GP 5Lb (Default, I think? ^^; )you can get one or the other for free I would take the more expensive one for that and pay for the cheaper of the two.

Spell component pouch 5GP 2Lb
Signet Ring 5Gp
  Rapier 20 GP 2Lb
Dagger 2Gp 1Lb

Water skin 1Gp 4 Lb
Rations(5 days) 25Sp 5Lb

Bedroll 1Sp 5Lb
Soap: 5Sp 1lb
Flint and Steel 1Gp

Lantern, hooded 7Gp 2Lb
Oil, six 1-pint flasks 6Sp 6Lb

Funds remaining: 6GP 5Cp with the clothing change I have you at 15gp 5 cp leftover

No backpack so I must assume it is all in the saddle bags so total weight carried on Alex??[/sblock]



[sblock=Trades, Hose rule]
Class skill Sleight of hand for Intimidate
Class skill Hide for Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty)
Class skill Swim for Knowledge (geography)
Class skill Open Lock for Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)
Class skill Climb for Knowledge (history)
  Trap finding for All Martial weapons         
[/sblock]


  [sblock=Biography Lord Alexander Julian Ravensworth IV, the  youngest, and now only, son of House Ravensworth, heir apparent, and,  forth most in the eyes of his father, failure. Alexander’s brother, Lord  Samuel, was the favored son and was groomed to be the successor; a role  he seemed destined to fulfill. Sadly Lord Samuel died to _unfortunate_ circumstances many years ago.

Alexander’s memory of Samuel has faded since the latter’s death; Instead  Alexander recalls his brother as more of an ideal, and the ideal that  has steadily replaced the memory of his brother is vague, is  unattainable, is _Perfection_, is expected, and is demanded of him and he has failed in the eyes of his father, who still grieves the loss of his true heir.
However, do to the young age he was when his brother died, Alexander  cannot recall not being actively raised and groomed to be the next head  of the Ravensworth family, and being potentially compared to an  idealized figure of what he should be has not done his mental health any  benefit. Further he has grown to intensely both revere and loath his  dear brother. The slightest insult to, and on occasions the mere mention  of, his brother is perceived as a grievous personal attack, to which  Alexander reacts poorly to; and at the same time, Alexander is agonized  by positive remarks about his brother.

And while never being _his brother’s equal_, Alexander has  continually excelled in his studies and has known it; this has given him  a very mangled sense of self-worth, on one hand, he knows he is the  superior to most any man, noble or not, yet he also knows that he can’t  possibly live up to the _destiny_ that his elder brother has left  unfulfilled and is thus a failure for all times. His mixed Inferiority  and Superiority complex is, luckily, tempered by his intellect, while he  knows he has enough raw talent to waltz through most things in life and  come out ahead, he also knows that without real experience, that he has  woefully little off, he will never live up to a tenth of his potential,  and while he knows he can’t surpass his brother’s destiny, he also  can’t deny his undying urge to surpass his brother.[/sblock]

*Like this character a lot better than the other. I am ready to throw him into the camp thread when you are.*

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

What is it with you and throwing poor, weak, low-level folks against hydras, HM?


----------



## HolyMan

Hey! It's a baby hydra (and it fits in the game). 

HM


----------



## Spade

Lol, so he does that a lot then?


----------



## Zerith

Well, not counting clothing, he is carrying 5 pounds of gear(Rapier, Dagger, Spell pouch)... XD
(The horse would end up carrying it all any ways, so why make it drag along backpack as well! ^_^)

Also, forgot to mention this the horse is caryying 111/291 Lb (Without/with Alexander on it respectively) and at a Light/Medium load. (Alexander is 180 once every thing is factored in)

So I'll start fixing it up, and I'll go and try to find the main IC thread again XD
Any ways, onto two details.

The black bit; some times random words from MS-word copy  black and I just don't notice it to fix it every time ^^;
And about the extra spells; So should I list it as a feat (Advanced learning) and then make it be a Sblock with all the spells he has in addition to class bass spells? if not, how would you like it handled?


----------



## jackslate45

Spade said:


> Lol, so he does that a lot then?



A player did one-shot the Hydra with a level two spell though.  I have a feeling that the spell is now banned...


----------



## HolyMan

jackslate45 said:


> A player did one-shot the Hydra with a level two spell though.  I have a feeling that the spell is now banned...




Nope I'm just making smarter Hydras  

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Let me know when the changes are fixed Zerith and just have an advanced Learning sblock and add the two spells in and say that they are bonus. Then when you get others just list the level you got it at.

I am set for the linguist nobleman to meet the poor farmer boy lol and then send you both out on a little grander adventure (probably accompanied by a gnoll).

HM


----------



## Zerith

Well, I think it is now fixed and I'm ready :3

Also, I forgot the gold (that is in pockets on the inside of a buttoned up coat, not in some easily removed/stolen coin purse, he is a noble, not stupid ) so he is relay at 5.5Lb load (14 gold coins, 10 silver and 5 copper)

Btw, is cut Currency used in this RP? (Ie, a Coin (Silver and up) cut into halfs or quarters)

Addon: what thread should I poke into, the "*Off to War - Duet (Gareth)*" one? :3


----------



## HolyMan

No cut currency whatever that is. And no we are headed back to the Off to War camp thread where they will need a translator. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@ AFg so long as you take no strenuous activity after your 4 hours of meditation you will be ready to prepare spells. Interruption/combat/spell casting means a start over from the top ( I believe) with four hours needed.

Also there is broken pieces of wood all around as the Reavers once use to live in these caves and remnants are left behind (what was being used as torches). Also the make shift nightstand could be burnt.

HM


----------



## Zerith

well, depending on the time frame and area, two haves of a coin was worth as much as one coin (as the coin was worth only it's weight in the substance it was made from, unlike today's Fiat currency, basically, if you want to buy something that is 5 Sp and all you have are gold coins, and the person you're buying it from (somhow) can't make change, cut the gold coin in half and then either half is worth the 5 SP) There are even coin desions that have goves made in them from the start to make it easier. :3

Any ways, when will the thread be ready for me to post in it?


----------



## HolyMan

The thread is ready... http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258495-off-war-ic.html

You need to decide why your character is there, what he has been doing since joining the irregulars and what not. Post up your character walking through the camp if you wish so you are subscribed to the thread once I get Gareth and the wounded gnoll in Fallon will send for your character and you can RP with us.

HM


----------



## jackslate45

@HM:  Did you see the level up post?  Just making sure I did this right.

EDIT: NOT MY NIGHTSTAND!


----------



## HolyMan

I am looking that over along with Lord Alexander. 

Adding your lvl up post the character sheet is something I wanted to avoid. But now my poor RG is a mess LOL I wanted the character post to be like a full character sheet and the extra post to be for lvl ups and a journal spot. 

Well I guess this was all before I knew about sblocks and the characters were done in code. 

Only thing I see is you didn't list the class of the 2nd lvl but it assumes Wizard. If you wish to multiclass at some point it will be necessary. 

LVL ups *approved* jackslate45 now to work on another lvl (had one player make it 4 lvls in a yr).

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION] Lord Alexander looks go to go.

HM


----------



## Zerith

so he is assumed to have already joined then? All right, I can work with that :3

Hmm, this might end up being large depending on how much time I'm given ^_^


----------



## jackslate45

...my bad?


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Mal is not caring on what order he is set on watch duty.  Whatever shift the others think he should take.  He does have a few items, like flint & steel, and there were 2 torches in his pack as well, but not sure if those were used up already, based on moving through the caves already.

Also, the MW Elven Dagger, Mal would not be using much of.  He's got his own MW weapons, the gauntlets.  If someone else would have need of them, and Mal can see that this is a better weapon than they have, then he will give it to them.


----------



## HolyMan

Don't you need a missile weapon? LOL

Also this will be the third morning Mal and the others have been in the caves so yeah those torches are gone.

HM


----------



## Spade

HolyMan said:


> Nope I'm just making smarter Hydras




For some reason that made me think of a Hydra wearing a monocle and top hat on each head.


----------



## Zerith

.... Must... Draw... Snobby... British... Hydra... Drinking... Tea... and... Eating crumpets!

Addon: Also, I'm going to just be making one power post untill you two are ready: allready up over 460 words and all that has happened is he rod up, got off his horse and hummed "MmHmmm!" ... Yes, he is going to be eccentric... Pray he can't find something to ramble on and on about that he likes to ramble on and on about, he will Filibuster ^^;

Also, what kind of Liberty will I be allowed to take on speaking outside of common?


----------



## Zerith

I don't like doing this, double posting, but this way you'll see it sooner.
I'm just wandering when I should post (Also, I'm building the post on the assumption that the camp, or at lest the area were the Gnoll is, is outdoors and that Alexander is more or less called to translate.)

Also, is Gareth and Fallon in a true structure or outdoors? Would like to know in case I'm suppose to have Alexander more or less wonder _in_to the room/area. I just can't see how the present scene looks, is it Fallon siting in front on a fireplace in a inn like setting or are they outdoors in front of a camp fire? I really don't know either way :\


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @ AFg so long as you take no strenuous activity after your 4 hours of meditation you will be ready to prepare spells. Interruption/combat/spell casting means a start over from the top ( I believe) with four hours needed.




Not quite... Here's the relevant piece of rules-text, courtesy of the good old SRD. 



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.




That should clear the issue a bit.

Anyways, as for watch order... Jareth really should be at the beginning or end of the watches, being a spellcaster.


----------



## jackslate45

problem is, we have mostly spell casters in the group (I think only 1 non spell caster? )


----------



## HolyMan

Zerith the irregulars camp is a hodge podge of tents, bedrolls around camp fires, and animals, wagons, and people thrown in.

The SRD mentions wizards not spontaneous casters and then it goes from saying sleep to saying rest, 

Let's play it as long as you have 8 hours of non combative, non strenous activity you may prepare spells or get all your slots back for the day. But this is allowed only once every 24 hours. Does not need to be consecutive and if you do break your rest cycle you lose that part of the hour and add on an hour. Then start back up once you are calm and unstrenuous.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Thank you:3
also, should I make a post now then or should I continue waiting? becuse it seems like it would be a little awkward if Alexander pops up now; a screen is typically grounded before a new character walks in, much less when they do so on a high horse. (odder still if it just happens to be one-of/the Gnoll translator right as a Gnoll is brought to camp)


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> The SRD mentions wizards not spontaneous casters and then it goes from saying sleep to saying rest,




Spontaneous casters follow the same rules, they just need less study/preparation time (15 minutes as opposed to an hour).

And what you are suggesting is still pretty much the rules as they stand.  Anyways, I'm fine with it.


----------



## HolyMan

I want you to post coming into camp and maybe what you have done since arriving. Don't post anything about Fallon the gnoll or what not till I have a runner come get your character.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Oooh, right ^^; Posted.

Hope that is not to spartan, I should have a better one for when he is more actively introduced in character though :3


----------



## ghostcat

*Watch SOP*

Trinham and Moggins are quite happy to take last watch. That gives him time to rest and learn spells.


----------



## Zerith

Meh hehe he! I'm working on the British Hydra! Holy, once I finish this, you simply must use it as a monster in one of your other RPs on April first XD
(also, you need to tell me which thread so I can see what happens XD)


----------



## Spade

I second this!


----------



## Zerith

still waiting on you to reply HM :/

Also, should I post up a WIP of teh hydra or just shock you all with the finished tea drinker?


----------



## HolyMan

Your call on that one Zerith. And please call me HM.

Am catching up in the living PF group will post something before bed for Off to War and Key to Victory.

HM


----------



## Zerith

just got some new pencils, so I should have the picture of Alexander colored up soonish (the hydra will be a while, it's very complicated)
Also, should I hold off until Spade posts?


----------



## HolyMan

Please do I want to keep you both about the same time frame for easier connecting you together. You two will be starting a second group and if any newbies show up they will adventure with you.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Presently Alexander and Gareth are on separated time lines.
There is nothing to prevent Alexander's present from being before or after Gareth's. Time of day nor date is established for Alexander
(it could still be early that morning or even days ago or latter, but it being open ended is hand for us now :3), and I'm not sure about Gareth.


----------



## Zerith

Nuuu! Golden fail T_T Teh gold pencil did not like going over previously shaded areas and lost it's luster when I pout it down... then it would not erase.... any ways: just imagine the lime yellowish brown as bright gold >_<
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f135/Forest_Herder/Drawings/TFKAlexanderRavensworthcolor.jpg
... might have to play around with these pencils to get to know them, because when I used the golden pencil on the test strip it looked like shiny gold, not brown -_-


----------



## Spade

The yellow doesn't even look that bad, though actual gold would definitely look better. I'm actually surprised you didn't do the same thing with the peach(maybe pink-tan?) for his face, since whenever I try to use colored pencils ANY light colors do that stuff to me.

Edit: Apparently "peach" is an acronym that people hate?


----------



## Dragonwriter

The term/acronym "peach", particularly used in all caps, was used mainly by homebrewers. It's supposed to mean "Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly."

Some time ago, particularly in the 3rd Edition House Rules forum, lots of folks were using the acronym. It got a bit annoying to some of the folks, largely because we don't really need it here. ENWorld tends to be more welcoming, friendly and honest than the WotC forums (where the acronym saw the most usage, AFAIK).

This little history lesson brought to you by a combined effort from the companies "Knowing Too Much For My Own Good" and "Eyes In Pain From Too Much Marvel Vs. Capcom 3"!


----------



## jackslate45

your eyes are not in pain yet!  there is still 20 more hours to go!


----------



## Spade

Huh, that seems like a silly thing to even turn into an acronym to be honest. I see a lot of random things get shortened into acronyms and it seems lazy to me, and kinda unhelpful since you can't immediately tell what it means. Eventually we'll get entire paragraphs squished into a few acronyms and language implodes forever.


----------



## HolyMan

My jic has never caught on. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

ya, this is a forum, this is not a text were you get charged per a letter or in a game were you will get killed if you take to long typing: long windedness is generally a good thing is forums :3


----------



## Zerith

One red head Down and I do believe the green likes to draw eyes, but the red dos not like being hair so much just yet, and I need to work and doing smooth gradation from sand to tan: also, it came out lighter then it really is, oh well. Still, I like how he came out, expressly the eyes.
Gareth

So yesh, still don't feel like drawing Alexander's face in detail just yet, and the Hydra is flummoxing me, any one else want their character's face to be swiftly summed up by a lazy artiest doodler? :3​


----------



## HolyMan

Nice pic .... speaking of Gareth he is up in the IC should you wish to post Spade.

HM


----------



## Zerith

talking about that, we could advance Alexander's story line, up to the point after the runner has meat with Alexander and just before Alexander gets to Gareth and Fallon: that way when the runner is sent the story lines can be insistently tied together then Spade posts, (while making a small note that Gareth and Fallon had to wait a moment for Alexander to arrive) with out spending extra real would time waiting to advance the time evenly in both sceens: Gareth and Fallon's scene, as is, only has the summoning of a translator left, and having Fallon send a runner and do a small time skip seems like it would work well to me.

Yesh, I have the attention span of a gold fighy :/


----------



## HolyMan

I was going to have Fallon send Gareth. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

Oh, Oh.... oh.
[/end red letter media joke]

hmm, oh well then, also, how much leeway will I have in depicting the gnoll language? I'm thinking of having it based on posturing a well as sounds and tones as opposed to 'proper' words. It would leave gnoll, by in large, a very simple and basic language, but would make deception a lot harder for most at the same time. (One of the ways it would be simple, no real way to say red or green. Then again, who knows if gnoll’s can even see color? ; )

[FONT=&quot]Any ways, I'm basically just thinking of giving it a very primal manner, and by doing such it would be very clumsy to dictate more complicated concepts while at the same time conveying of more basic concepts readily (mainly I’m  thinking Gnolls would emphasize body language over oratory.)

End rambling.[/FONT]


----------



## Spade

Okay, sorry about taking so long, but I posted - I was running around all yesterday/most of today.

Also, that's a nice picture! It has the messy kinda bedhead look to it, too.


----------



## HolyMan

NP Spade this is play by post and the longer you play the more patience you will get trust me. 

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

I'm not sure that is true in all cases, some of us are still as impatient as we were many years ago in our first PBP.


----------



## Zerith

Ja, I've been in role plays with weeks between replys, and I still like things to move along :3.

And I would still like to know how much leeway I will have with expresing Gnoll.


----------



## HolyMan

You have as much leeway as you would like. Whatever will add to the RP is very cool with me.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Zerith, would you please stick to just one font (preferably the forum default)? Changing fonts between or during posts is a little troublesome for my already-bad eyes, and I do like the read what other people post.

And to respond to this:


			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> I think you got the meat shield role in all this.



Funny how that's worked out, since Duskblades aren't meant to be meat shields. Ever. Or at least, about the same amount of time as a Ranger. 
From what I've seen, they're really meant to be a versatile skirmisher. The light and medium armor and d8 HD means they tend to have a rough time with standing toe-to-toe. But their Channeling hits hurt like a lightning-charged freight train.

Anyways, once Malaroc hits a higher level, he better take that dubious honor! 
His class is more suited to being in the thick of things.


----------



## jackslate45

Ern's summons will help keep a little of the slack off you.  Now that they last longer than a single round...


----------



## Dragonwriter

jackslate45 said:


> Ern's summons will help keep a little of the slack off you.  Now that they last longer than a single round...




Possibly... though a smarter opponent would focus on taking down someone who is permanent... Likely you, if the summons annoy them enough. 

Luckily, Jareth is built with Reach and Combat Reflexes, to take advantage of plenty of AoOs, plus Knock-Down to trip enemies on high damage rolls. He's a bit of my own Duskblade take on the classic Chain-Tripper build.

And against stronger stuff, he'll be channeling every spell he can think of into his attacks...


----------



## Zerith

Oh? I did not think of checking if the font was changing around ^^;
but then again that is bond to happen with copy/pasting to ms word... so I'll try and stop that from happening from here on out :3

That said I do plan on changing the font/speech-color when he talks in different languages.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Yes, agreed.  Once I get some levels, with HP attached to them, I will take that spot if need be.  We don't really have a power hitter, which is kind of surprising, but not totally.  I am tailoring this guy on the fly, as is he will grow according to what the campaign throws at him.  I have a vague concept of what to go with, but it's still vague and able to be amended to what we encounter.

Looking back at character sheets now, I am on that far behind you.  Only 7 hp away from matching you, and AC is the same.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Looking back at character sheets now, I am on that far behind you.  Only 7 hp away from matching you, and AC is the same.




Yeah, higher HD will do that. And my, at best average, luck on HP rolls...

Really, your AC should be better. DS gets Medium Armor, Natural Armor boosts, etc. And you went with a higher Dex, while I went with a higher Str and Int. Ah, the joys of Multiple-Ability Dependency. 

But I've also got Combat Expertise, which I can use for a nice little +5 AC. And even taking such a penalty on my attacks, I've got a reasonable to-hit.

Anyways, Duskblade is very much an offensive class, while DS is more balanced to defensive. At least, from my perspective...

They both have their good points. I'll certainly sing the praises of the Dragon Shaman class any day (though you actually wouldn't want to hear me sing ), having played one for a solid 2+ years, from level 1.


----------



## Zerith

am I to believe that these two solders have the stats of men at arms as seen on page two of the RG? ^_^

... Nop, not thinking of hypnotizing them if spade is too slow...
[joke]"You are a chicken, you are a chicken, now go around camp squawking!"[/joke]


----------



## HolyMan

You can do what you like and sure we can use those stats I don't mind getting some extra use out of that.

I just wanted to give you something to respond to since I saw you on.

HM


----------



## Zerith

k, one more thing though, the information on my first post is considered cannon, right? >:3


----------



## HolyMan

What do you mean?

HM


----------



## Zerith

> -When he first joined the group, not very long  ago, he more or less filibustered the commanding officer before the man  had a chance to even ask why he was there. Alexander told the officer  why he was there, and also said, in numerous words and a around about  way, that he would obey orders so long as doing so would not either end  unquestionably in death or be demeaning and ended with “In  short, I won’t fight a dragon face to face nor will I clean out the  stables, However, I will fallow reasonable recommendations.”-



[FONT=&quot]
... I'm thinking Alexander is about to laugh at their faces. while unleashing a paragraph or two. ^_^
[/FONT]


----------



## HolyMan

I wanted to see if you will hold to your convictions LOL. When people post I tend to use that for and or against them (mainly against). Long as you stay in character I'll be happy with whatever you post.

But I am off to bed will read your post first thing in the morning afternoon.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Ja, I tend to recall my actions well, even more so if I can just look back and check ^_^

Also, is that Knowledge role block thing I sent you earlier ok to use? and if so Spade; you need to make an intellect roll when you post  

In closing: Spade needs to post to save two solders from manure shoveling! XD


----------



## ghostcat

Dragonwriter said:


> Yeah, higher HD will do that. And my, at best average, luck on HP rolls...




Don't start me on HP rolls. Three 1s and a 2 on a d8 :-(


----------



## Dragonwriter

ghostcat said:
			
		

> Don't start me on HP rolls. Three 1s and a 2 on a d8 :-(




Yeah, you've had a worse time than everyone else, I'm pretty sure. One reason I don't really like to roll for HP... Classes supposed to be able to take the hit can end up being squishier than the casters, all thanks to bad luck.

And Zerith, thanks for double-checking the font/size settings.

It also strikes me that Alexander is a bit of a hypocrite... I mean, you've said he's trying not to use his noble blood for any advantages, to make it on his own and do things himself, with his own skills and talents... But the first thing he does is try to leverage his position over the soldiers. I get it can make for a good "conflicted character," just felt the need to voice this observation.
(You'll notice that a lot with me... I tend to speak/type my mind pretty regularly.)

And it may make it quite interesting if/when he deals with Jareth. Jareth already has a chip on his shoulder about spoiled little noble brats...
(BTW, Zerith, it seems any member of a noble family is considered to be of noble blood, in this game. I know, historically, the inheriting son would normally be the only one counted as such, but this is D&D. )

Though this business does remind me of something I'm not entirely sure was resolved... HM, I know we've been working with the title of "Lord" (which I've always enjoyed the sound of), but I don't recall there ever being any real definition of his father's exact station (I left it intentionally vague, and never really expected Jareth to be considered part of the nobility).
Since Alexander is bringing up specific titles, I thought it might be a good idea to work out just what title Jareth's father held...

[sblock=Little bit on titles]
As far as I can tell (with, admittedly, very little research), "Lord" was a form of address used for people holding the rank of Marquess, Earl or Count (Marquess being of higher station than Earl/Count), the difference being in the preceding title (Most Honorable for the  Marquess, Right Honorable for Earl/Count). And with the modern times, "Lord" seems to be used for Count/Earl, Viscount, Baron (Marquess and Duke, also, but with appended actual title). 
[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

I have Jareth's fathers history from time with the Nandirly to time with the Treylor outline. But you know me nothing in stone. It is something Jareth will come to learn when your reunited with Tharivol.

About nobles we can work something out but your right this is D&D so when you add powerful spellcasters or warriors in the mix (who can usually kick a nobles little butt) then you need a way to add them into the mix of maybe not so much nobility but you would call them sir.

If you have read the Wheel of Time this game may turn out a little similar for all the PCs as Perrin's story. You will be seen alking to nobility alot give the right to give orders and maybe even a squad of men as your own. (all in the works) So you may all be called lord by default.

[MENTION=30034]ghostcat[/MENTION] - really sorry about the hp but I think the dice see you more as caster than combatant.

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Ah, love me some Wheel of Time, and yes the Perrin stuff always seemed fairly natural to me nobles have to be created in the first place afterall.


----------



## HolyMan

Haven't read the newest (and next to last ) waiting for paperback. 

And no not because I'm cheap I take my books along on the bus and walk and read, to hard to do with paperback.

And don't spoil it for me either thanks anyway though.

HM


----------



## jackslate45

About HD, one DM I had did something interesting.  He did the next lowest dice +2 (so d4 becomes d2 +2, d12 to d10 + 2), then add your con mod.  This way, you would at least gain 3 hp every time.  unless you had a negative con mod.  

As for Wheel of time, its on my list of things to buy.  However money is way to tight right now


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry to hear that jackslate45 - if you ever hit a bargain/used book store look into getting the first book well worth the read.

Well I tend to like rolling (though that puts me in a minority) and allow those rolls to help with your RP. Since Jareth right now has the most HP everyone sees him as the sturdy take on the monsters guy. Not the role he wants but if you watch movies and read you know the hero hardly ever gets what they want. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Wheel of Time is somewhere on my "To Read... Eventually" list... Sometimes, it's almost like there's too many books I mean/need to read. And unfortunately, I don't really have the funds to obtain most of them... (edited to add: ) And most of the time, when I have a little spare money, it goes to my RPG gaming, video gaming or growing my music collection (all worthwhile, in my opinion).

Sitting in my shelves right now, waiting for me to get around to reading them, is the majority of Anne McAffrey's Pern series, a handful of Heinlein books (including Stranger in a Strange Land), some Andre Norton... And when I can manage adding another, Terry Pratchett's Discworld books.
Then there's still a lot of literary classics on my list, like Fahrenheit 451, 1984, and similar things that used to be required reading (which, due to my unusual schooling, I mostly dodged, albeit unintentionally). Though I did manage to read Catch-22 and enjoyed it immensely, some time ago. Still need to get my own copy of it...

Yeah, I've got a huge reading list to work on... 

2nd EDIT: I'm going to be gone from tomorrow afternoon/evening until Monday. Don't get me killed over the weekend! 



HolyMan said:


> Well I tend to like rolling (though that puts me in a minority) and allow those rolls to help with your RP. Since Jareth right now has the most HP everyone sees him as the sturdy take on the monsters guy. Not the role he wants but if you watch movies and read you know the hero hardly ever gets what they want.
> 
> HM




Wait... Jareth's now a hero?!?


----------



## Zerith

He can be a bit of a hypocrite, but one of the two things he will use his standing on, is avoiding "being pout in his place" Wanting to prove himself dos not, by any mans, extend into letting others give him belittling tasks. More then just a few commoners of rank higher then what he joined as would love to see a noble clean out the stables.
So he sees it more as equalizing things then abusing his station.

Also, even if he did make them shovel manure through his title, it would not be for his advantage: it would be for their punishment. Perfectly legit! XD
but rely, he is not using his title to get a better tent, have the best meals that can be had in the camp, to be in a position of command, things seen as givens by most any one of his heritage. But he is, overly, proud of were he came from, and chooses to stat it, while also making sure Joe some can't make him do something reserved for  far younger youths just to give him a lesson. So in general, don't try using rank to bully him around (or to send him somewhere to get killed for that matter) and he wont use his title to dance laughingly on top of your head :3

And yesh, Nobles can be of very thin blood, but consider Alexander like this, he is either of the highest reaches of nobility, or a relatively minor royal, if I knew more about the world I would figure out were he stands in the line of succession in any given kingdom, dukedom or countship: would not be too high in most cases, but  far enough up the latter that he could foreseeable gain more then just his own inheritance if the noble houses get thinned to much in the war. but that is not likely, just possible. So yesh, he is among the elite but he is not taking a retainer of honor guards around with him as he could be.

Also, are those knowledge roles ok to use then HM?


----------



## HolyMan

I have no knowledge of any knowledge checks. If you sent something it didn't come through to me.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Zerith said:


> He can be a bit of a hypocrite, but one of the two things he will use his standing on, is avoiding "being pout in his place" Wanting to prove himself dos not, by any mans, extend into letting others give him belittling tasks. More then just a few commoners of rank higher then what he joined as would love to see a noble clean out the stables.
> So he sees it more as equalizing things then abusing his station.




While mucking all the horses may be a bit much, doing the duties for his own is hardly being humiliated/put in his place, certainly in my opinion. And you do realize Alexander's perspective isn't really capable of influencing the perspectives of others...



> Also, even if he did make them shovel manure through his title, it would not be for his advantage: it would be for their punishment. Perfectly legit! XD




Taking advantage of his station is still the same act, regardless of the consequences.



> So in general, don't try using rank to bully him around (or to send him somewhere to get killed for that matter) and he wont use his title to dance laughingly on top of your head :3




I think you didn't intend for this statement to sound like a command, but the choice of phrasing makes it seem one. And I'm responding to it with such a belief...
My intent in asking the rank of Jareth's father was more to cement my own knowledge. There's been relatively little dealing with the specifics, only Lord Vance insisting on calling Jareth by the name "Lord Kyras". Even after several times being asked not to. 
Part of it stems from Jareth's partial contempt for his father and the perceived stain on his honor. He hasn't talked about his nobility, and unless someone really pries, he isn't likely to do so. The other part of it is Jareth's strong preference to rely on his own skills and training, which he has done (pretty well, in my opinion). 



> And yesh, Nobles can be of very thin blood, but consider Alexander like this, he is either of the highest reaches of nobility, or a relatively minor royal, if I knew more about the world I would figure out were he stands in the line of succession in any given kingdom, dukedom or countship: would not be too high in most cases, but  far enough up the latter that he could foreseeable gain more then just his own inheritance if the noble houses get thinned to much in the war. but that is not likely, just possible.




437th in line for the crown, you mean? 
It shall be interesting to see how your character develops... His overblown self-importance will likely grate on Jareth... You may have noticed he's not fond of anyone's arrogance and isn't afraid to start one helluva fight (like antagonizing a 16th-level LE Wizard ).



> So yesh, he is among the elite but he is not taking a retainer of honor guards around with him as he could be.




"Elite by blood" you mean... He has yet to prove his actual worth. 

BTW, I feel the need to note I'm not trying to dictate how to play your character. I'm merely observing and debating (which I find fun). If you want me to stop, please say so. 

BTW HM, not sure if you caught it in my editing above, but I'm going to gone from tomorrow afternoon/evening until next Monday.


----------



## HolyMan

I caught it. 

That's why I posted things ahead today and didn't wait. After a year and a half I think I can NPC Jareth pretty well. 

Trust me. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> I caught it.




Just double-checking. I like to cover my rear when it comes to such things...



> After a year and a half I think I can NPC Jareth pretty well.
> 
> Trust me.




Uh huh, like with the whole hydra debacle?  (Just teasing )

He's still a bit shaken being underground again... His last stay in a cave, however short, definitely had a severe effect on him (plus watching the death of the person who just saved Jareth's life) and wasn't long ago, IC. Hence the bits about his tensing up, recent memories, etc. He really doesn't want a repeat of events.

(Oh, and don't forget, antagonize 16th-level LE Wizards whenever possible!  )


----------



## Zerith

Oh, I much like it DW, keeps me honest and helps me keep things in prospective, and I also love debates :3
Also, if they only asked him to clean up after his own horse he might just grumble and then just get it over with (spells make messy work less messy ^_^) but they were asking him to take care of every horse in the entire camp, effectively making him a stable boy: you can't prove anything to anyone by being a stable boy and Alexander knows that. (at lest, he can't prove what he wants to prove by doing so)

And all he has done so far is threaten them; their using their postion to threaten him, and he is not readily intimidated and he also has a rank that can overshadow theirs. if they were only being jerks he would stat his title, as is his custom in any situation, maybe give a rant, and then it would be over and done with, but giving him demeaning orders when he is not in their command structure is just bagging Alexander to throw it back in their faces: he could have said he was a irregular and their not, meaning they would have to go to a supremer officer to give him a command anyways, but he figured he would just stomp down the idea brutally and laugh at their faces... Yesh, he can be a butt.

That said, don't use your rank to aggravate him and he will do the same; leaving him saying his title as little more then being a braggart.


----------



## ghostcat

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] You may like dice but they really hate me  On a more serious note. I am toying with the idea of making Trinham more of a caster but I haven't found a PRc that I really like. Current plan is to see what his sixth level HP roll is and then decide on his future path.

As far as nobles are concerned; Trinham is a country bumpkin and (apart from Jareth, who he has never considered to be a noble) the only noble he has had any significant contact with is Vance. Who confirmed all his prejudices about nobles.  So depending on Alexander's attitude (if and when he meets him) he will either "yes sir, no sir" him whilst tugging his forelock and giving him the finger behind his back or just ignore the fact that he is a noble; like he does with Jareth.


----------



## HolyMan

HAHA 

And that would be playing in character  and I would probably double your XP for any post your character gave the "bird" to. LOL

HM


----------



## jackslate45

So, being to used to Pathfinder, I forgot that in 3.5 banned schools = cannot cast period...

HM, can i switch light for prestidigitation?  as I should not even have access to the spell...


----------



## Zerith

Alexander is a butt about somethings, he likes his name, and his tittle, and he will always introduce himself with his tittle; that said he wont generally evoke it unless he is told to do something that he finds to be beneath himself; for example, he is basically one of/the camp translator, and you don't have translators clean out the stables for no reason. So while he dos not want to build him self up with his title, he also dose not want to be a whiping boy; and he also tends to be preventive when he senses buffoonery.

Also, one of the reasons he won't talorate cleaning out filth is simple, he whats desperately to become better then what his brother was (even if in his mind he knows he can't become his brother's better) and such work only proves to him that he is his brothers lesser, as an aggravatingly many things do.


... were is Spade?


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, on the current situation, Mal can have up to 175 pounds as heavy load.  Hopefully nobody is over that, and can shed some gear to get to it if needed.  Then he will 'carry' each person down, using the rope around his waist.  They climb down the rope, while he climbs down as well.  There is nothing in Spider Climb that states about not able to carry a heavy load, or even with 'dragging' someone, which would be even a higher capacity.

HM - Ruling?


----------



## HolyMan

Go ahead jackslate45 I missed it too as I am heavy into PF and get things twisted as well.

Will update tonight whether or not we hear from him Zerith. I'll NPC him.

I think I will allow that FtF as you could have just gear and plate or what not and still climb about. The drop is a way to get a little more RP before the end of the month and XP and then I'll advance as you search the area.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Brother kept me up to lat (it is now 3am...) watching crappy movies... I'll post in the morning when I can proof read for crap ^^;


----------



## Spade

Sorry I've been MIA for a bit, but I've been pretty swamped with a couple school papers and stuff. Shouldn't be so busy for awhile now.


----------



## HolyMan

NP Spade I know all about RL coming in and getting in the way of someone's fun.

I will try and get a post in where you two can chat if you like on your way, but will not advance the thread (to where Fallon is) till after XP (so on the first). 

HM


----------



## Spade

Okay that's fine with me. Character Interaction is like, 85% of the point anyways.


----------



## Zerith

Beware asking teh winded one questions he likes! ;


----------



## Spade

Lol, I wonder what kind of side tracked windbaggery Alexander could get up to with an actual question if "lord of where" got into noble politics.


----------



## Zerith

shockingly little, I don't have enough of the map flushed out to do any thing but broad stroke :/
You'll notice other then Bairan, he has net to name any one; I would go and spurt out names and impending clashes but then I would be playing with information I have no knowledge of. Luckily, Alexander dos not want to give away tidbits oh real information, he dos not want others to know just how much he knows about the inner workings of things, the less he appers to know, the more he can use it as leverage when the time comes, also, Gareth dos not seem like he could really hold his own in such a debate ^^;

that said, give me a few figures to play with and I can make a web of possibility ^_^


----------



## HolyMan

You could go ahead and add in a noble if you want. Make something up about a far away place like Fanshaw or Norden. It would have little bearing on the game except to let others know Alex is well schooled when it comes to nobles.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Norden realy is not that far away, it is right beside Pesh...
...
...
how big are the kingdoms? I could relay do with a real map of the RP... ^^;


----------



## HolyMan

So could I. 

Not needed and the borders may touch for those two countries but that doesn't mean that the common man knows everything about everything.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Feb 16th - Feb 28th*



		Code:
	

Player                              XP
Aldern Foxglove                    510
Dragonwriter                     1,200
jackslate45                        540
ghostcat                           675
Fangor the Fierce                  470
Spade                              215
Zerith                             295


One of the things I enjoy doing is going back and reading through the last to weeks of posts. It feels like reading a book with characters I really know indepth (you all should try it). Everyone has been amazing in your posting this past month and I want to thank you all enormously. 

HM


----------



## jackslate45

Tira and Ern need more back and forth IMHO.  I did enjoy the roll play immensely.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok I am about to undergo a schedule change and will not be up at midnight anymore. So XP posting will be like tonight - between 10-10.5pm EST - and most of my posting will now be down in the mornings.

Second thing is [MENTION=90731]Lughart[/MENTION] has not been around and I know not what to do with his character.  I was thinking he would "get lost" but then some of you would be inclined to want to search for him. (I know AFg not Aver, )

So if I am going to keep him around for a little bit hoping Lughart makes it back. I will NPC him the next two weeks but expect the obscure death rule to come into effect, after that.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

jackslate45 said:


> Tira and Ern need more back and forth IMHO.  I did enjoy the roll play immensely.




Thanks jackslate45 I will up it some then for you.

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Hey HM, long shot, but I don't suppose you have the original stuff I PMed you on elven gods, and society by any chance? I know I saved it on a word file, but I just cannot seem to find it for the life of me.

Also does my count of 1990 XP for Aver tally with yours?


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Ok I am about to undergo a schedule change and will not be up at midnight anymore. So XP posting will be like tonight - between 10-10.5pm EST - and most of my posting will now be down in the mornings.




Understood and understandable. I don't mind. Getting the XP post well before I go to bed will make me happy. 

Similarly, an advancing post before/soon after I wake up is also just fine with me. There are times the whole time difference thing really works for me.


----------



## HolyMan

Aldern Foxglove said:


> Hey HM, long shot, but I don't suppose you have the original stuff I PMed you on elven gods, and society by any chance? I know I saved it on a word file, but I just cannot seem to find it for the life of me.
> 
> Also does my count of 1990 XP for Aver tally with yours?




Nope I have 70 slots for PM's but I get about 5-10 a day.  so anything over a couple weeks old is usually gone. If you find it or do a couple more gods remind me to immediately but it into the Five Kingdoms thread so we don't lose it. Sorry again.

And you get +5 XP for posting your character in the RG (everyone forgets that one )

EDIT: Oh and Aver gets plot immersed when we go see the elders. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok I was going to update K2V and just have it that everyone is down and let you all start searching. But after FtF's post I wish to allow ghostcat to post Trinham's descent as this will be good. 

Update tomorrow night though regardless.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Um, Alexander Lectured them and then spoke to the Gnoll, he did not talk to the Gnoll and then lecture them. :/
Also, I’m starting to tack it the irregular camp is alongside the main camp instead of being a proper part of it… which seems like a risk to me, I would think they would want proper guards at all entrances so that a weak link can’t be exploited… and given that Gareth and Co. left their cart behind I don't know how they could have smuggle in something as big as a Gnoll :/


----------



## HolyMan

I had it that nobody really reacted till you spoke to the gnoll. Except maybe for the guards you were dressing down. 

And yes there is two separate camps and the irregulars would be what you would call put in the rear. Where yes people lax in their duties and except for the occasional regular soldiers patrol* everyone keeps to themselves.

 Now if you have plans to have Alexander become a great tactician he wouldn't now what you know about the way a camp should be set up. Just make sure you keep to character and everything will work out.

* and almost every patrol acts like the one Alexander encountered - they bully and make fun of and generally don't do anything productive

HM


----------



## Zerith

By the why, who is the highest ranked character (not per say PC) in the camp? Is Dellex really in the camp?


----------



## HolyMan

Why you wish to meet him?

HM


----------



## Zerith

The guards keep on going on about  lord Dellex, Lord Dellex, Etc. So I'm just wandering, and I'm just wondering who the camp's CO is :/


----------



## HolyMan

Lord Bairan is the CO.

Dellex is the man you have to get through to talk to Bear. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

who the heck is the StoneBeaker? should Alexander know who that is? ;
Could it be Bairan?


----------



## HolyMan

No. I am hoping for some RP 

HM


----------



## Zerith

Hmmm, how did history roll a 22 while his N&R roll only got a 12? ;
I'm now hoping it was history XD


----------



## ghostcat

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] Will you allow Mage Hand to be used to open the magically trapped chests?


----------



## HolyMan

No sorry as it would make the Open/Close spell pointless. Mage Hand is for lifting and moving something it isn't a force that can push or pull.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> No sorry as it would make the Open/Close spell pointless. Mage Hand is for lifting and moving something it isn't a force that can push or pull.
> 
> HM




Sorry, had to add a note.  A bard in one of my previous games I DM'ed decided to change Open/Close to Open/Clothes....  Yeah, he was a womanizer.  Made the spell more fun.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

The only spell I have ever bothered to have a character research was for my bard Halford, who created Halford's Compulsory Melody to be able to go all disney. He got to perform a musical number about being the worlds greatest swordsman with an orc warband as backup singers, stabbing them as he went - the DM had us all in stitches doing injured orc vocals, to the tune of [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDMfpbdbHWg]THIS[/ame].

"Argh he's good a stabbin', spinnin' with that steel and jabbin! I'd love to get a hack in, but I'm busy tryin' te push my guts back in!" 

Good times.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Figures, Aver gets a foe that is immune to acid, my specialty.  I roll a 20 for init!  I then throw a javelin, another 20!!  WOohoo!  Roll to confirm Crit!  A freaking 1.  It would have been SOOOO cool... but alas, not meant to be.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Ah, but mimics are immune to crits so it does not matter too much.  Immune to acid and sneak attack, just ruins Aver's day big style, lol.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Figures, Aver gets a foe that is immune to acid, my specialty.  I roll a 20 for init!  I then throw a javelin, another 20!!  WOohoo!  Roll to confirm Crit!  A freaking 1.  It would have been SOOOO cool... but alas, not meant to be.




Ouch... But if you think that's bad/crazy, you should have seen my Saturday night game a few weeks ago. We seriously had 2 18s, 7 19s, 10 20s and 9 1s, all in one night. The dice were bipolar in the extreme!


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Those rascally laws of probability I swear they just don't work right. As Terry Pratchett would have million to one chances come off nine times out of ten. Why they just had £50 come up in the last box on deal or no deal 5 times in a row, which is 56 million to one, and a fellow just won £1.5 million with a £2 accumulator bet on the horses. Someones tapping UP, C, DOWN, C, LEFT, C, RIGHT, C at the title screen of life I swear.


----------



## jackslate45

I always preferred UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A START.  If you failed once, you have 29 more chances.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Hehe, I think thats the one I used actually, I'll confess I had to look it up - I wondered how would get the reference, lol.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I thought it was UP UP DOWN DOWN LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT B A _*SELECT*_ START


----------



## jackslate45

Hitting select changed from 1 players to two players in contra, so select start means the code works for 2 players instead of just one.


----------



## HolyMan

What mimics have you all been fighting? I have them immune to acid sure but nothing about immune to crits and sneak attacks.

And Aver tried to move and AFg you should have known he would be grappled.

I think everyone plays well enough not to go and use player knowledge to meta-game out of a tough encounter.

But I would like you to use any Player knowledge to help with the RP and moving the game along please. For instant knowing that they have adhesive and when they strike(and hit) a character is automatically grappled. Would give a chance for good RP and move things along. 

I will use your rolls for your grapple check and go in and update and see if Aver escapes.

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

No apparently I am just talking out of my arse, was thinking they were oozes to for some reason. Huh. Well that's good.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience March 1st - March 15th*



		Code:
	

Player                            XP
Zerith                           305
jackslate45                      300
ghostcat                         650
Dragonwriter                     500
Aldern Foxglove                  550
Fangor the Fierce                365


No LVL ups but it won't be long for a lot of you. 

Great game everyone keep up the great RP and play.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Combat is over and I have a new houserule I need to think on before I continue please no posting in the IC till I do a little clean up post. Thanks

HM


----------



## jackslate45

as long as it does not involve hydras im good...


----------



## HolyMan

No it doesn't (although seeing the group deal out some dmg... hmm...)

I am looking up right now why when someone attacks into a grapple they don't have to randomize their target. And why if two people are grappled shocking grasp, vampiric touch, and the like don't effect all combatants.

Worst is I don't what the effect would be on Jareth if he accidentally killed Cedric.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> I am looking up right now why when someone attacks into a grapple they don't have to randomize their target. And why if two people are grappled shocking grasp, vampiric touch, and the like don't effect all combatants.




Likely because in melee, you're able to guide where you are aiming and there is a chance to correct/re-direct a strike as it goes. Ranged combat does randomly select the target, because you can't change an arrow/bolt/bullet's trajectory.
As for the spells, "It's magic" seems to work for the designers. 

You won't actually find an explanation for these things in the rules, HM, because if the designers tried to explain why all these things worked as they did, it would be thousands of pages, rather than 300. 

And please don't add another HR, especially one that would do more damage than good. After all, realism has its limits in a game world inhabited by wizards able to undo gravity. 



> Worst is I don't what the effect would be on Jareth if he accidentally killed Cedric.
> 
> HM




Good question... Not sure I want it answered.


----------



## HolyMan

Me either, but it would fit in (if D&D used normal laws of physics).

Oh the HR wouldn't be to bad I suppose. Just state that any spell that effects one member of a grapple effects them all. Sometimes it would be useful sometimes not.

Useful - a mob tries to hang Malaroc three of them grab the man and start to carry him towards the gallows. With one spell Jareth knocks them all out and Malaroc has enough HP to survive. 

Un-useful - the same mob tries to hang an NPC who you know won't take the shock, so you have to find another way to stop them.

In D&D you can explain away anything, perhaps the spell is more centered the remaining energy doesn't effect the other person in the grapple but they do feel a slight tingle. Or it causes a release as soon as the creature is hurt and wails about.

All that is not what worries me as it will be limited and used limitedly, What concerns me is the effect on Jareth. Here I have a good way to write off a PC whose player is no longer about and have some character development happen. But do I want this kind of development? 

Jareth has had a lot effect him in a very short week (maybe only what 5 days since being tied up and accused of treason) and I'm not so sure more is needed. Had this been any other player's character I wouldn't be thinking this and would have HRed and played through.

Right then. I'm not going to because it wouldn't be fair unless I _could_ do it for everyone. When a change would really only effect one player than that change is no good. I'm sure the next battle will give me an opportunity (should have never rolled for those first to attacks but how did I know they would both miss only need a 4 or better to hit ).
_
"I'll get you yet Cedric. And your little crow too. ehhehehehehe!" _

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

So how does treasure distribution work in this game? I checked the rules and could not find anything about it, but with the level spread and the relatively slow acquisition of wealth thus far I am guessing most folk are going to be interested in the item or possibly items we get and I'm not sure what a fair system for division would look like.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Thank you, HM.

As to your question, AfG, we haven't had any real treasure distribution. A few coins here and there, but no actual full-on treasures. All our "special stuff" has been specifically given to us. For instance, Jareth's +1 Spiked Chain. He didn't go to some wizard or cleric in camp and pay for an enchantment. No, he retrieved it from the corpse of the man who saved Jareth's life.
Similarly, his Cloak of Elvenkind was handed to him by Lady Rizella Valorn (though he doesn't use, believing it to not be his to use).

Personally, I'm of a mind that magic items should go to whomever can make best use of them. And if no one in the group can/will use them, they should be sold and give everyone involved an even share of the profits. (Of course, this is concerning items we find, like the boots you pulled out of the chest; items like the Cloak, of specific and sentimental nature, do not fall in the "sell it" category.)


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Hmmm, wonder how much it would cost to have an exact replica of a certain cloak made...


----------



## Zerith

... how tall is Dellex anyways? Is Alexander looking up or down at him? :/


----------



## jackslate45

Is it a Nature check or a heal check to ID a poison?  I know Heal actually cures it, but can you tell what kind it is?


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

You make a heal check against the poisons DC which can be used in place of the poisons secondary save. So assuming this is standard Drow Poison - which I'm guessing it is - Aver needs a DC 13 heal check to stop him being unconscious for 2d4 hours instead of one minute.


----------



## jackslate45

I knew that part.  I mean trying to ID what the poison is.  How can we go from "What Poison is this?" to "This poison is Drow poison.  It renders its victims unconscious."


----------



## HolyMan

At Zerith Dellex isn't overly tall at 5'11"

At AFg not drow poison it is blue whinnis - To forgo rolls I had you auto pass one and auto fail the other - Just to move the story along.

If someone kicks Aver a little he will wake up. Question is will this slow down his jubilation? 

EDIT: Marking post 8k

HM


----------



## Zerith

Alexander had a half hour to ask the questions, and re-ask them: he would have asked in transient, it's a bit late to ask these qustions now that he has no clue when he is going to run into Stonebreaker. could be thirty seconds or five minuets: it's just to late to, reasonably, ask the questions now.

The time to ask has cam and past, and to do so now is called a plothole :/
With you're permison I would much rather make a brake in the post and have a present/previously area

Ultra-Cheesy example:

Alexander fallows behind the Gnoll

---previously---

Alexander asks Dellex about the Gnolls


----------



## Dragonwriter

Or you could just accept Dellex isn't going to answer and not pry and poke the hornet's nest.


----------



## HolyMan

That would be smart thinking (What's Alex's INT??) 

HM


----------



## Zerith

18, but his Wis is only 12 

Dellex more or less complemented Alexander when he was being inquisitive; Dellex being eager to install him as a commander after he asked questions doesn’t say "Don't ask me questions" if you ask me it sounds more like "I like commanders who have ask questions instead of stupidly taking things for granted" He can tell that Dellex, realy, dos not like the present commander of the Gnolls, but still, half hour walk, he would have asked at lest once.

But that is just me :/


----------



## jackslate45

So Ernestine had a crazy thought.  A very crazy thought indeed.

She was going to "turn herself in so you guys could go free".  Oh, and then Bengin Transposition herself with someone who is a much more able fighter.  Like Jareth, because he has reach/Caster, or Mal, because his fighting style is similiar to the "evil guy". 

The threat to make this work is the event that caused Ernestine to leave in the first place.  As no one knows about it, with Tira there, even mentioning it could cause a huge problem with the Nandirly.  Ern is going to use that as a bargaining chip. "Let them go, or I tell the truth about that night!"  Only more threatening.

Or, we say screw it and kick the Revears butts.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Either works for me.  I think Jareth is the best fighter.  What is the max range for the Benign Transposition?


----------



## Dragonwriter

I'd prefer not to get Trans'd into the enemy group. Jareth is at his best when he's able to quickly move in and out of the conflict (Spring Attack, with Knock-Down for Trips). He doesn't quite have Whirlwind Attack yet... When he does get that, he'll be more up for the "Oh, dear, I'm surrounded... Not!" sort of thing.

But sending Mal into the center, with Jareth harrying on the outside of the group, (doing his hit-and-run thing, AoO'ing and tripping anyone trying to close with him) would probably work pretty well. Then Ern would need to join into the formation with the others and everyone else just stay protected. Maybe some magical/ranged attacks, but avoid melee like the plague. Leave the melee stuff to those who are good at it.

BTW, HM, looking ahead to 6th level... I'd like to trade out Spell Power +2 (and it's later enhancements) for Power Attack (and possibly other feats from the PA line, later, if you agree). Jareth's fighting style focuses on inflicting the most damage possible, while staying away from the fray (or overpowering _everyone_ in the fray - Whirlwind Attack). Power Attack emphasizes that while Spell Power... doesn't. 
(Plus, Spell Power is only good against creatures with SR, and it only provides a small bonus. Considering we're likely to be heading into more pitched battles, most soldiers aren't going to have anything resembling SR.  )


----------



## jackslate45

The main reason I took BT (range 120' btw, so not incredibly long.) was to escape with a summoned creature/ Im being attacked! Defend me strong guys! moments. The only real combats Ern had seen, Jareth basically decimated (zombies/mimic  No offence to Mal though.  He did keep us alive )

so I guess Mal is the victim hero?  His aura could be pretty strong as well.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Yeah, plus I have my defensive fighting while two weapon fighting combo.  Means I take the small penalty, but gain so much more than normally on defense.  I'll be your huckleberry!

Hopefully I don't die... I will need the prot from arrows, and then I should be good to go.  If anyone else has any buffs to get me, I would appreciate it.  Otherwise, let's kick some reaver butt!


----------



## Zerith

I just had a thought: You guys might get back, come looking for Stonebraker and then find some tall brat with an ego bigger then, Mine. ;


----------



## ghostcat

Erm's idea works for me. The thing to decide is what the rest of us do while Ern is surrendering. Also, I think Ern should also protecting from arrows as well.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok everyone if you think you are ready to RP yourselves getting set go ahead. Just wanted you to figure out things from a players perspective than play it out.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

sorry jackslate45 looking at the XP comment it might not explain well enough.

The group is the PCs (when I say group) so Ernestine would be 60 feet from them and 165 feet from Reavers.

I am Off to Work so will push things forward tonight if needed.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

*Mathmatical Musings*

- Group is within 60' of Haden, so he's within missile range.

- Mal's protected from Missiles; Jareth is NOT.

- Group can get to Haden in 1 double move or 2 normal moves.

- Baddies will take two rounds, running, to reach Haden; 1 round to get into missile range.

- If baddies use missile weapons they will be firing into Melee; Haden may or may nor be protected from missiles.

SO, to kill Haden before the rest arrive: Mal gets two rounds, Jareth has one round and people using missile weapon have one round plus either one round firing into melee or one round of melee.

*Thoughts?*


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

So I guess we are waiting until Ern decides to switch.  If she waits until she is next to Haden, or at least 10 feet from him, I can get a full attack in, which is two attacks with two weapon fighting.  

Otherwise, I will charge/attack first round, then lay into him next round with two attacks.  Aura would switch to Power Aura, for +1 dmg on melee attacks.

Also, Mal would side step if possible to allow a charge if anyone else could charge Haden with him, (namely Jareth).  Mal would try to allow charge paths, and eventually trying to flank whenever possible.


----------



## HolyMan

Hold a second guys think you have the distances wrong...

Haden <---165'---> Ern <---60'---> Group


HM


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry I got your game up late Zerith and Axel but March Madness and an unscheduled movie (Sucker Punch) took up a lot of time this weekend.

Not to mention game updates, but should be smooth sailing now. Let's RP a little before heading off to adventure.

Please join me here...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/303571-con-con-man.html

HM


----------



## Zerith

has Axel posted up his character yet? I like to know Alex's height next to other characters :/


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Hold a second guys think you have the distances wrong...
> 
> Haden <---165'---> Ern <---60'---> Group
> 
> 
> HM




Suger. I thought it was too good to be true, that the BBG had left himself exposed like that.  

Still its a good job we found out before triggering the ambush.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Zerith said:


> has Axel posted up his character yet? I like to know Alex's height next to other characters :/




Do you just have something about being taller than other people?  I'm noticing a lot of pointless questions related to height. 


By the way, this:


Zerith said:


> One could feel his content smugness through his *gas* as if he was giving off some kind of demented monologue.



gave me a good laugh. I'm pretty sure you meant "gaze", but it was funny nonetheless. Call me juvenile if you wish, but the idea of this supposedly-composed brat contentedly farting at his superior officer before beginning a random tirade is rather amusing.


----------



## Zerith

Yesh, my grammar stinks
P.S. I fixed it with fire! >_<

Addon: also, Alex is replacing Martomum, so in essence they are more like equals now and with Alexander being a noble and being Martomum's replacement it's arguable he now out ranks Martomum. :/

Also: I'm a bit of an artist, so I know about perspective and scale (he is actually a lil shorter then me, but we are near enough in height that my general prospective is the same as his.) and knowing if he has to bend his head way down, or up, as the case may be, is useful for roleplaying.

Dose he need to bend down to comfortably shack hands with someone? are those 'tall and impractical steps' sized just right for him, is the bed too short?
Hight dos alot of things, and in the normal time frame of fantasy almost every thing is made one off: if you go to a house: the furniture will be sized to the occupant(s) (ever wonder why really old houses tend to have low ceilings? People have been getter taller.) and the details add up. as an RPer, I would be remise to not know Alexander's approximate size next to another PC/Major character.

P.S: Originally, back when he was going to be a clockwork knight, he was going to be very short, but his corent incarnation is a bit of an imposing figure who invokes a lot of presence when he enters a room and is hard to miss; thus his stature was adjusted to mach.
also, one of my general RP character rules is: don't make them standard height. Mine are general very short or very tall.
Below are two characters, I went strait from using one to the other

Zuak is over nine feet tall, he is a 'large' half-Wyvern who is remarkably able to vanish into any wooded area and likes eating gnomes (they crunch like chicken)

Drake (a name I recycle a bit to much...) is a three foot one dragon-kin mage who is very very shiny: he is about as hard to miss in day light as a rampaging ogre. he likes eating spiders: he also thinks every giant spider somehow knows he ate their tinny kin and tends to over nuke them in fear, alot


----------



## HolyMan

*red ink* time for Axel's character...

Alden Jahl (Al, or AJ to his friends) 
CN, Human Male, Rogue

Str: 11
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 18

Languages: Common, Halfling, Elvish

Skill Points: 52 

Appraise: +6 = +4 [ranks] +2 [Int]
Balance: +2 = +0 [ranks] +2 [Dex]
Bluff: +8 = +4 [ranks] +4 [Cha]
Climb: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Str]
Concentration: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Con]
Craft: +2 = +0 [ranks] +2 [Int]
Diplomacy: +8 = +4 [ranks] +4 [Cha]
Disable Device: +4 = +2 [ranks] +2 [Int] 
Disguise: +10 = +4 [ranks] +2 [deceitful feat] +4 [Cha]
Escape Artist: +2 = +0 [ranks] +2 [Dex] 
Forgery: +8 = +4 [ranks] +2 [deceitful feat] +2 [Int]
Gather Information: +4 = +0 [ranks] +4 [Cha]
Heal: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Wis]
Hide: +4 = +2 [ranks] +2 [Dex]
Intimidate: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Str] *???*
Jump: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Str] 
Knowledge (local): +4 = +2 [ranks] +2 [Int]
Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (cc): +4 = +2 [ranks] +2 [Int]
Listen: +3 = +3 [ranks] +0 [Wis] 
Move Silently: +4 = +2 [ranks] +2 [Dex]
Open Lock: +4 = +2 [ranks] +2 [Dex]
Perform: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Wis]*is based on CHA (+4)*
Ride: +2 = +0 [ranks] +2 [Dex]
Search: +6 = +4 [ranks] +2 [Int]
Sense Motive: +4 = +4 [ranks] +0 [Wis]
Sleight of Hand: +6 = +4 [ranks] +2 [Dex]
Spot: +3 = +3 [ranks] +0 [Wis]
Survival: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Wis]
Swim: +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [Str]
Use Rope: +2 = +0 [ranks] +2 [Dex]

Skill Tricks:
Assume quirk [interaction]: Eliminates familiarity spot bonuses when in disguise. *I know nothing about skill tricks do you have something I can read on them?*

[Level 1] Deadly Defence PHB2)
[Human] Lucky start (Comp. Scoundrel) -* please list what this feat does*
[House rule] Deceitful (+2 disguise / +2 forgery)

Traveler’s Outfit 1gp 0 lb (worn) *first set if clothes is free...*
Leather armour 10gp 15 lb (worn)
Short sword 10gp 2 lb (worn in scabbard on belt)
Dagger 2gp 1 lb (concealed in boot)
Light crossbow 35gp 4 lb
+20 bolts 2gp 2 lb
Backpack w/ concealed flap 3gp 2 lb (worn)
Water skin 1gp 4 lb (in backpack)
Bedroll 1sp 5 lb (in backpack)
Flint and Steel 1gp (in backpack)
Thieves tools 30gp 1lb (in concealed flap)

*have total gp spent 94.1 leftover should be 30.9 (and I see this character diesn;t have a horse, opps on my part)*

*I have taken and set you up a better character sheet for you to copy paste will put it in next post. You are missing alot of stuff that while yes can be assumed but is better if it is listed and ready.*

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Just quote this post and copy everyhing below the line and then paste it into a post in the RG and fill in your details of course...

HM

___________________________________________________

[sblock=Alden Jahl]
[sblock=Game Info]
Race: Human
Class: Rogue
Level: 1
Experience: 0
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Languages: Common, Elven - Nandirly, Halfling
Deity: ??
[/sblock]
[sblock=Abilities]
STR: 11 +0
DEX: 14 +2
CON: 10 +0
INT: 14 +2
WIS: 10 +0
CHA: 18 +4
[/sblock]
[sblock=Combat]
HP: 6 = [1d6=6] + 0 (CON) + 0 (Misc)
AC: 14 = 10 + 2 (armor) + 0 (shield) + 2 (DEX) + 0 (Misc) 
AC Touch: 12 = 10 + 2 (DEX)
AC Flatfooted: 12 = 10 + 2 (armor) + 0 (shield) 
INIT: +2 = +2 (DEX)
BAB: +0 = +0 (Rogue)
Fort: +0 = +0 (base) + 0 (CON)
Reflex: +4 = +2 (base) + 2 (DEX)
Will: +0 = +0 (base) + 0 (WIS)
Speed: 30'
Damage Reduction: none
Spell Resistance: none
[/sblock]
[sblock=Weapon Stats]
Short Sword(melee): +0 = +0 (BAB) + 0 (STR)/DMG:1d6(P),CRIT:19-20x2
Dagger(melee): +0 = +0 (BAB) + 0 (STR)/DMG:1d4(PorS),CRIT:19-20x2
Dagger(range): +2 = +0 (BAB) + 2 (DEX)/DMG:1d4(PorS),CRIT:19-20x2,RANGE: 10'
Light Crossbow(range): +2 = +0 (BAB) + 2 (DEX)/DMG:1d8(P),CRIT:19-20x2,RANGE: 80'
[/sblock]
[sblock=Racial Traits]
Size - Meduim
Speed - 30'
1 extra feat at first LvL
+4 skill points at first LvL, +1 skill point every LvL after first
Bonus Languages: Any
Favored Class: Any
[/sblock]
[sblock=Class Features]
Sneak Attack: 1d6
Trapfinding 
[/sblock]
[sblock=Feats & Tricks]
Prof. with all simple and hand crossbow, rapier, sap, short sword, short bow (rogue)
Armor Prof. - Light (rogue)
Deadly Defence (LvL1)
Lucky start (human)
Deceitful (houserule)

*Skill Tricks:*
Assume quirk [interaction]: Eliminates familiarity spot bonuses when in disguise.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Skills]
Skill Ranks: 52 = [10 (class) + 2 (INT)] x 4 (LvL1) + 4 (human)
Max Ranks: 4/2 ACP: +0 



		Code:
	

[U]Total   Skill            Ability  Rank Misc Misc  ACP  Stat[/U]
+6  =   Appraise            +2    +4    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  =   Balance             +2    +0    +0   +0   +0    DEX      
+8  =   Bluff               +4    +4    +0   +0   --    CHA
+0  =   Climb               +0    +0    +0   +0   +0    STR
+0  = ()Concentration       +0    +0    +0   +0   --    CON
+2  =   Craft:              +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  =   Decipher Script^    +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+8  =   Diplomacy           +4    +4    +0   +0   --    CHA
+4  =   Disable Device^     +2    +2    +0   +0   --    DEX
+10 =   Disguise            +4    +4    +2   +0   --    CHA
+2  =   Escape Artist       +2    +0    +0   +0   +0    DEX
+8  =   Forgery             +2    +4    +2   +0   --    INT
+4  =   Gather Information  +4    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+4  = ()Handle Animal^      +4    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+0  = ()Heal                +0    +0    +0   +0   --    WIS
+4  =   Hide                +2    +2    +0   +0   +0    DEX
+4  =   Intimidate          +4    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+0  =   Jump                +0    +0    +0   +0   +0    STR
+2  = ()Knowledge:Arcana^   +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:Arch&Engn^+2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:Dungeons^ +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:Geography^+2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:History^  +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+4  =   Knowledge:Local^    +2    +2    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:Nature^   +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+4  = ()Knowledge:Nobility^ +2    +2    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:Religion^ +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:Planes^   +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+3  =   Listen              +0    +3    +0   +0   --    INT
+4  =   Move Silently       +2    +2    +0   +0   --    DEX
+4  =   Open Locks^         +2    +2    +0   +0   --    DEX
+4  =   Perform             +4    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+0  =   Profession^         +0    +0    +0   +0   --    WIS
+2  = ()Ride                +2    +0    +0   +0   --    DEX
+4  =   Sense Motive        +0    +4    +0   +0   --    WIS
+6  =   Sleight of Hand^    +2    +4    +0   +0   +0    DEX
n/a = ()Speak Language^     n/a   +0    n/a  n/a  n/a   n/a
+2  = ()Spellcraft^         +2    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+3  =   Spot                +0    +3    +0   +0   --    WIS
+0  = ()Survival            +0    +0    +0   +0   --    WIS
+0  =   Swim                +0    +0    +0   +0   +0*   STR
+2  =   Tumble^             +2    +0    +0   +0   +0    DEX
+4  =   Use Magic Device^   +4    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+2  =   Use Rope            +2    +0    +0   +0   --    DEX

() = class skill
^ = trained only
* = double ACP
[/sblock]
[sblock=Equipment]


		Code:
	

[U]Item(location)                  Cost   Weight[/U]
Traveler's Outfit(worn)         free     0lb
Leather armour(worn)            10gp    15lb
Short sword                     10gp     2lb 
(worn in scabbard on belt)
Dagger(concealed in boot)        2gp     1lb
Light crossbow                  35gp     4lb
-bolts (20)                      2gp     2lb
Backpack w/concealed flap(worn)  3gp     2lb
Water skin(in backpack)          1gp     4lb
Bedroll(in backpack)             1sp     5lb
FlintandSteel(in backpack)       1gp     ---
Thieves tools                   30lb     1lb
(in concealed flap)

 
*Treasure:* 30gp, 9sp, 0cp Gems:

Total weight carried: 19 (light)

Carrying Capacity:
Light: 00-33lbs
Medium: 34-66lbs
Heavy: 67-100lbs
Lift Over Head: 100lbs
Lift Off Ground: 200lbs
Push/Drag: 500lbs
[/sblock]
[sblock=Details]
Size:
Gender:
Age:
Height:
Weight:
Hair Color:
Eye Color:
Skin Color: 

Apperance:

Demeanor: 
[/sblock] 
[sblock=Background]
...[/sblock]
[sblock=Adventure Log]
None yet[/sblock]
[sblock=Level Ups] 
N/A only first level[/sblock] [/sblock]


----------



## jackslate45

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: Skill trick overview

First appears in Complete Scoundrel.  Normally cannot access till level 2

Also from the same book is the Malconvoker, which is one of Ernestine's future Prestige classes (not till 6 though)


----------



## Zerith

figures: the guy Alex is joined by is also a party face type character :/


----------



## Axel

HolyMan said:


> Sorry I got your game up late Zerith and Axel but March Madness and an unscheduled movie (Sucker Punch) took up a lot of time this weekend.
> 
> Not to mention game updates, but should be smooth sailing now. Let's RP a little before heading off to adventure.
> 
> Please join me here...
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/303571-con-con-man.html
> 
> HM




No problems. Between hockey season starting in a few weeks (meaning grading games and pre-season training now) and a plumbing emergency at home I haven't had the opportunity to even _think_ about this game until today. I'll catch up and post before the end of the day. 

To answer some red ink queries.
[sblock=Lucky Start]
Lucky Start [Luck]
Sometimes your luck overcomes a slow natural reaction.
Benefit:  You can expend one luck reroll to reroll an initiative check.  You gain one luck reroll per day.
Special:  Unlike most other luck feats, using Lucky Start requires no action.

Complete Scoundrel introduces the concept of Luck Rerolls.  They form a pool of rerolls, each usable 1/day like the Luck granted domain power.  Each feat allows you to appy rerolls to a different situation.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Skill Tricks]
Another concept brought in in Complete Scoundrel.  The basics:
-  Learning a skill trick costs 2 skill points.
-  Whenever you acquire skill points you can choose to spend skill points to acquire a skill trick instead of purchasing ranks in skills.
-  You can learn any skill trick as long as you meet the pre-requisites.  If you no longer meet the pre-requisites you can't use it until you once more qualify.
-  You can't learn more than one skill trick any any given level, and total skill tricks cannot exceed one-half the character level (rounded up).  Certain feats and prestige classes allow you to vary these limits.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Assume Quirk]
Prerequisite:  Disguise 5 ranks.  I have assumed that the Deceitful feat increases Alden's ranks, rather than providing a synergy bonus (this is the way my group in RL plays it).  If I'm mistaken, that's cool and I will reassign the 2 skill points.
Benefit:  When impersonating a particular individual, you can eliminate the normal Spot bonus granted to viewers familiar with that individual (PHB page 73).  The effect extends to all viewers.  Using this trick requires no special action, but you can maintain the deception for only 1 hour/day.
[/sblock]


----------



## Zerith

hmm, I might have to pick a few of those skill tricks up for Alex :3

Also, Intimidation is a Char modded skill: you should be at +4 ;3


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry no advancing the threads today guys as tomorrow is XP day and I have started calculating XP. Will give out XP and advance the combat round and The story arc for TCtCM.

Sorry about forgeting your spell ghostcat just a lot going on before that combat started and didn't go back far enough.

Still need spells for the day/casted posted for those casters who have, when you all have a chance. The mimic was a warm up/waste spells to make this combat just a little tougher fight. 

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Aver has 2 Orbs of Acid and 1 Light of Lunia remaining.


----------



## jackslate45

Ern has 1 SM1, 1 Grease, and 1 Benign Transposition remaining for the day.


----------



## HolyMan

Should really sblock them in the IC your next post please. 

XP is up next.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience March 16th - March 31st*



		Code:
	

Player                               XP
Dragonwriter                        875
Fangor the Fierce                   760                  
ghostcat                            850
Zerith                              155
Aldern Foxglove                     460
jackslate45                         540
Axel                                270


*CONGRATS TO ghostcat for hitting 6th LvL!!!!

double CONGRATS to AFg for hitting 3rd LvL!!!!

*And it looks like a lot of people will also be leveling up come this next month.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Woohoo!  I am SOOOO close to leveling.  Haden sucks, by the way... he has too many HP, lol.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Yeah, a little under 300 away, myself. 

But 43 HP? Really? Sounds to me like someone decided to give the bad guy NPC max HP.  
(And a Cleric buddy, when we don't have a single HP of healing.)

Anyways, I was looking at the distance between us... Fangor, if we each charge, you can take on the thug/archer straight in front of you (or hit Desnor), and I can come in with a support strike, angling for Desnor. I think he should be our first target, above Haden. Never let the healer survive.


----------



## HolyMan

Ummm... questions.

What lvl do you think Haden is?

and

Do you really think Desnor (with a scythe spiritual weapon) channels positive energy?

Just food for thought... 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Ummm... questions.
> 
> What lvl do you think Haden is?




Minimum 4th. Against a very mixed party (levels 2-6 now). (BTW, ghostcat, get _fireball_! Get _fireball_ now!  )
But he's got a lot of helpers, increasing the EL. And you were so kind as to give us a throwaway fight first. 
And we're lacking any kind of healing, as we have been for the entire campaign. 



> Do you really think Desnor (with a scythe spiritual weapon) channels positive energy?
> 
> Just food for thought...
> 
> HM




Doesn't matter which he channels. 
Any Evil Cleric (or even Neutral with Negative Channeling) should have a couple Cure spells at the ready. Once you deplete said Cure spells, they have no healing left... But first you've got to nix them. Unless you can hit them hard enough and fast enough to take them down in one round. And our offensive abilities aren't likely to do so (unless I somehow manage a near-max damage roll Channeling a Shocking Grasp).


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Yeah, I was thinking I would charge Dresnor, and then you can still charge with 10' reach.  Haden would still hit me, more than likely, and could even put me down with a few lucky hits.  Down to 17hp, this is gonna be tough.  I would switch aura to Power, so that it is +1 dmg to melee attacks.  

Wish we had Cedric, as some more spells would be nice instead of bolts.  This whole battle went wrong from the start.


----------



## HolyMan

I looked at Cedrics spell list and it isn't very helpful. I gave him Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Burning Hands, and Feather Fall for the day.

And that is pretty much his offensive arsenal. He has Daze for zero lvl so I figure for now a lucky crossbow bolt is all the support till things go south than he will advance with total D to get in burning hands range.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Power is always good. Toughness might help us survive... but 1 HP less to us likely isn't going to help much. Personally, I favor increasing damage output rather than damage negation. The sooner the enemy goes down, the sooner they'll stop hitting you. Or Energy Shield, if you really think the guys we're going to rush are going to take us in melee.
We'll also see how well our foes fare after I close in and get a Quick Cast off...

Yeah, it would help if we weren't missing people controlling their characters, immediately relegating those characters to the Pile of Mediocrity (and no advancement of power). 

BTW, never think the enemy is going to hit you. Because then they will. You're the tank - start acting like the tank! 
Too bad you don't have Touch of Vitality yet... I think the only thing better than that for mid-battle healing is the Heal (and Mass Heal) spell.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I guess we wait to see what ernestine does, then Haden's reaction.  Then, it's do or die time..

Yeah, touch of vitality would have been nice right now.  Adding up HP, enemies are at about 150, we are less than 100.... not good.


----------



## ghostcat

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]. Will you let Trinham get his 3rd level spell in the heat of battle and me do the rest of the L6 update later? Ghostcat crosses his fingers.


----------



## Zerith

Nuuu, I forgots about it and now I ran out of times!!!
T_T

Any ways, here is a WIP of The Dandy Hydra!
It's a smarter Hydra! with a top-hat and monocle!

Comments on The Dandy Hydra, think one should pop up sooner or latter? 

... Yes, it's having Tea... and yes, the one with the lil hat... has a crumpet in its mouth.. I don't know were the other ones are


----------



## jackslate45

I think that the only useful summon I have left is a spider.  I wont be able to hit Dresnor/ Haden without rolling well, and then they would one shot the poor guy.

With a spider using its web attack, he's at least entangled.  thats at least -2 AC right there.  But, I was going to wait till he gets closer, so we can actually get up to him.

If anything, I can shoot a pot shot at haden while he is moving forward.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Oh great, I was expecting to be tantalizingly close to leveling, so woot!

Lets see level 2 of Wizard, 2nd level is not available as an Elf Generalist sub level, sadly not a new spell level.

Wizard 2nd
HP 1d4+1 3
Caster level rises to 3 (thanks to Practiced Spellcaster)
Gain 1 Oth level Spell Slot and 1 1st level Spell Slot
Gain 3 1st level Spells in Spellbook , 1 from Elf Generalist.
Spells Selected: Nerveskitter, Golem Strike, and Magic Missile.
 Gain 9 skill points (2 base +2 House Rule +5 INT):  Concentration 1   rank, Disable Device 2 ranks, Open Lock 2 ranks, Search 1 rank, Spellcraft 1 rank, Spot 2 ranks.
Furkiss's HP increase to 7. 		

I also note that Aver should have had 11hp, rather than 12 - I counted his Con as +2 in the level up for some reason when its actually +1 - so his HP before level up would have been 11/5 and I believe should be 14/8 now.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

I am still a bit confused about the battle, are the squares 5ft or not, why did Aver perform a completely different actions from the one I posted? Maybe because I had the distance wrong? I had him shoot his bow at one of the minions, but Hm had him hide?


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry AFg A little to much going on and misses that attack. Even though the day before I saw it checked the range (yes each square is 5') and confirmed it a hit. But then got into XP and such. I have edited in the hit and taken one of the thugs HP down.

ghostcat you should list the lvl up crunch like AFg did and I will allow things to become available a little at a time. It's no fun just to say here you go need to fluff the advancement a little (like I started with Aver as he might just get his extra spell).

So take your time and do your lvl up when you have the time (you get a new feat too, so that would be cool to fluff in).

_____________________________________

That hydra Zerith is a little less friendly looking than the first one. But good work none the less.

_____________________________________

jackslate45 you readied two actions you will have to go back in and chose one before I can advance the round. Have to figure out which one you wish to do more.


HM


----------



## jackslate45

if(haden is moving)
shoot him
else if(desnor is casting spell)
shoot him;-> the intent


cant program actions as a readied action huh...I think I hate Haden more.


----------



## HolyMan

I think to ready an action you need to concentrate a little more on that then anything else (although you don't ignore things around you - just focused priorities).

I take it you will shoot at Haden then as he is about to move to move the round forward.

HM


----------



## jackslate45

you want to roll or I can roll?


----------



## HolyMan

I will put that fate into your hands then. Go ahead and add the roll to your ready action post and let me know when you are ready I will go in post some fluff based on your roll and what I have planned for Haden, and advance the round.

HM


----------



## jackslate45

If he's charging it hits, otherwise miss!


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Ah cheers HM, yes believe me I understand how you can get confusimicated trying to tally all the PCs actions I certainly do!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

DW - how do you want to handle this?  Haden and the Thug.  Within charge range, but I don't trust them.  I feel like chucking a javelin at Haden to get a few shots in on them.  Take advantage of that chain of yours, to defend against them charging us.  Tank is defense, so I might as well defend and put up a  wall to prevent those behind us from getting shot at so easily.

Aura is still Protection, DR1/Magic.

Options?  From being a Dragon Shaman, I know what tricks I would use.  I would use the one that causes damage to foes hitting in melee.  So, ranged would be best option for me, to make him switch it.  Then lay into him.  But, that's only how Mal would think.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove

Just to add I've added the additional non core spells to the sblock beneath Aver's sheet.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Fangor the Fierce said:


> DW - how do you want to handle this?  Haden and the Thug.  Within charge range, but I don't trust them.  I feel like chucking a javelin at Haden to get a few shots in on them.  Take advantage of that chain of yours, to defend against them charging us.  Tank is defense, so I might as well defend and put up a  wall to prevent those behind us from getting shot at so easily.
> 
> Options?  From being a Dragon Shaman, I know what tricks I would use.  I would use the one that causes damage to foes hitting in melee.  So, ranged would be best option for me, to make him switch it.  Then lay into him.  But, that's only how Mal would think.




He might have Energy Shield up… In which case, I can also do a little ranged casting. I think a Ray of Enfeeblement will help soften him up, then perhaps a Scorching Ray or Burning Hands. 

If we really want to rely on the dice, I do have a trick I could use with the possibility of one-shotting Haden. But it depends entirely on a high damage roll… 
I should’ve taken Power Attack earlier… 

Anyway, ranged for a round or two, then get into melee? Unless they charge us first, in which case AoOs and melee (possibly Tripping them, if I hit with enough damage). Spring Attack is going to come in very handy here…


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, quick rules-thing... Given how I'm low on 1st-level slots, but have a few 2nd-levels (and only one 2nd-level known), I was looking at this particular piece of rules:



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Spell Slots
> 
> The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his or her due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower level.




Seeing as it says "spellcaster" and not "wizard" (even though it is under Preparing Wizard Spells), would you rule a spontaneous caster (like a Duskblade) can perform the same feat?

Essentially, this is Heighten Spell without the DC boost (or casting time increase). It would seem quite unfair to spontaneous casters (who already tend to get the short end of the stick) to not let them have the little extra versatility this provides (at the expense of power)...

I'd just like to know before I start using 2nd-level slots to fuel 1st-level spells, only to get told "doesn't work that way" (especially since I've been in other games where it does work that way).


----------



## Zerith

First hydra? what first one? that's the only one I've drawn :/
[do you mean the one you used for the baby hydra that was all cutsy wutsy?]
also: three of the heads are rather happy go lucky, the 4th is yellping becuse hot tea just got pored onto the top of it's head and the 5th.. well, it's just nefarious, like a hamster ;


----------



## HolyMan

Well I see it as a given that if spontaneous casters wish to use higher spots for lower spells they can as it says...

_"The various character class tables in Chapter 3..."
_
It is referring to all of them being able to use a higher lvl slot for a lower lvl spell, and it should cary over to new classes as well. But what I would mainly use it for is those spontaneous casters with a low stat that can't cast spells of a certain lvl but still be allowed to use the slots they have earned.

So you sure can DW.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Well I see it as a given that if spontaneous casters wish to use higher spots for lower spells they can as it says...
> 
> _"The various character class tables in Chapter 3..."
> _
> It is referring to all of them being able to use a higher lvl slot for a lower lvl spell, and it should cary over to new classes as well. But what I would mainly use it for is those spontaneous casters with a low stat that can't cast spells of a certain lvl but still be allowed to use the slots they have earned.
> 
> So you sure can DW.
> 
> HM




Will you allow Trinham to continue casting _Magic Missiles_ using his L2 slots once he has used up all his L1 slots? If not, no sweat.


----------



## ghostcat

*Trinham New Feat*

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]. Will you allow Mind Over Body

Not sure if I will take it but I am certainly considering it.


----------



## HolyMan

The feat is fine ghostcat. Also yes he can use those slots for Magic Missile it will apply to all spontaneous casters.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

I've put Trinham's Level 6 updates in the RG.


----------



## HolyMan

Combat updated. 

ghostcat your lvl up looks ok I will have you gain +7 hp during this combat and you may cast one fireball (not three sorry, but can use those other two slots for lower lvl spells), whenever you wish.

Don't think the feat will be needed right now so that can be added. And the skills you can go ahead and be added in also.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

so... if I draw this combat out a little while longer... with question, etc, I will POSSIBLY get a level up, a little HP, and a chance to survive?


----------



## HolyMan

Possible...

HM


----------



## jackslate45

level up for me is level 2 spells... I would LOVE that right about now...SM2 woo!


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, you missed my AoO against the thug moving in to attack Mal. Even if he went around the far side of the Grease, I still get an AoO, as Reach Weapons specifically get the benefit of direct 10-ft. diagonals.



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Reach Weapons
> 
> Most creatures of Medium or smaller size have a reach of only 5 feet. This means that they can make melee attacks only against creatures up to 5 feet (1 square) away. However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature. In addition, most creatures larger than Medium have a natural reach of 10 feet or more.
> 
> Note: Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten all squares 10 feet (2 squares) away, even diagonally. (This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet.)




So do you want to roll my AoO, or shall I do so when I next post in K2V?


----------



## HolyMan

No I rolled it here top of the latest page.

I needed to know where everyone makes it to on the map before updating and adding it in. Most AoO's like that I will need to roll to know if someone dies or not as they advance/take certain actions. Hate to make the map and then have to do a redo.

Everyone make sure your combat/weapon stats are always up to date so there are no mistakes please.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Ah, mixed in with other rolls, dealing with other actions... Before the guy actually moved in. 

One more reason I hate placeholder posts, especially when they get forgotten.


----------



## HolyMan

Yeah I'm thinking of doing a rolls post and then the next would be the action/status post. So as not to be forgotten or have to roll on some other post keeping all the rolls for that round together.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

I saw the 'work in progress' post, as it stands right now. And I've got to say, that's a lot better (IMO) than the previous "placeholder" stuff. 

And just as a quick reminder for my AoOs: 3/round, +9 attack bonus for 2d4+5 damage. If damage roll is over 10, I get a free Trip attempt (+7 bonus) from Knock-Down.

Though bringing up Knock-Down reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask... It only says I get a free Trip attempt. Normally, Trips are an attack, yadda yadda, blah blah, but this is an added effect if my damage hits a certain threshold, similar to a wolf's Trip. So, considering it's a free add-on, if my free Trip fails, does my opponent get the reaction (per a normal Trip) or is he stuck (like a Wolf's Trip)?


----------



## HolyMan

Thought you would like that.

Let's see since it is a free part of an attack let's keep it like a wolves trip so as not to have variances. 

Also Jareth is up.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Looks like I messed up the numbers on last rounds roll.  TWF with Fighting Defensively with MW Dragon Gauntlets nets me only a +0/+0 attacks.  Luckily, I got a nat 20, so the attack would have still gone through.  Just wanted to let you know I will keep an eye on the TWF + TWD + Fighting Defensively modifiers.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Let's see since it is a free part of an attack let's keep it like a wolves trip so as not to have variances.
> 
> Also Jareth is up.
> 
> HM




Excellent. And I took the liberty of describing my strikes hitting, figuring a 28 and 23 would hit against a Prone foe who had a previous AC of 19. 



Fangor the Fierce said:


> Looks like I messed up the numbers on last rounds roll.  TWF with Fighting Defensively with MW Dragon Gauntlets nets me only a +0/+0 attacks.  Luckily, I got a nat 20, so the attack would have still gone through.  Just wanted to let you know I will keep an eye on the TWF + TWD + Fighting Defensively modifiers.




Oof... Yeah, that's a pain with the heaping penalties onto your attacks. Too bad you can't take Combat Expertise. And I don't know any other feats to take advantage of a defensive style.


----------



## HolyMan

Oh they both hit and as they do Jareth feels a burning sensation climbing up his arms as Haden's aura effects him. 

Lucky for Malaroc that you took him out before he hit the thug LOL.

The two ?? were because his AC would be different for different attacks (-4 for melee +4 for ranged) just a reminder to me to keep track of how he was attacked.

What really sucks for me is you killed him right before he got to acid breath Cedric. Will I never be rid of this guy!?  Maybe [MENTION=90731]Lughart[/MENTION] will return and the dice gods know this.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

And now the thug is dead as well... Mal got pissed!  This round seems to FINALLY be in our favor!


----------



## HolyMan

Yep maybe now Trinham won't have to fireball anyone.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Oh they both hit and as they do Jareth feels a burning sensation climbing up his arms as Haden's aura effects him.




I'll take the damage in exchange for being rid of him. 



> What really sucks for me is you killed him right before he got to acid breath Cedric. Will I never be rid of this guy!?  Maybe [MENTION=90731]Lughart[/MENTION] will return and the dice gods know this.
> 
> HM




Well... he could valiantly throw himself in front of some crossbow bolts. But if you think the couple of fights you've been NPCing him is a pain, you should've seen how long my Sunday game DM was stuck running two former PCs. It was going on months before he finally managed to be rid of them, when we returned to town from our long-lasting dungeon crawl.

The length of time was due in large part to the help of my Dragon Shaman saving everyone's rear ends several times. 
Man, I love the Dragon Shaman class!


----------



## jackslate45

I was quite surprised that you didnt just launch a hail of bolts at Cedric as a warning...

although being unconscious when Haden goes under is going to drive Ern up a wall.  Once she gets back up at least.


----------



## Zerith

btw, waiting for the Gnoll to respond to Alden: Alexander is not going to speak to 'wet nose' until; The Gnoll (or Gnolls) respond or enough time passes that it's apparent that the Gnolls are ignoring Alden.
The reason he is not making a comment the moment that Alden finished is becuse while in the circumstances before there was really nothing happening. yet in this circumstance there is somekind of dance going on, and he dos not know if it is just for fun or if it has some kind of meaning for the Gnolls: so ya, he dos not see a reason to risk alienating the Gnolls for just a moment or two.


----------



## HolyMan

Well I think the update is done (man can't believe it is after midnight).

Trinham below is the template for the fireball for when you wish to cast it again. And beside it is how I played it out for the encounter. 

Looks like the gang isn't out of the woods just yet.

HM


----------



## jackslate45

If we can down two more guys this round, we have the fight.  IMO at least.

However, not much Ern can do sleeping on the ground lol.


----------



## HolyMan

FtF what's Malaroc's alignment? I can't seem to find it on his sheet in the RG.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

CG or CN  Need to check the book - Copper Dragon (He got pissed at being spit upon by acid)

I take it that his actions are a bit extreme?  Either way, he knows that Haden was out for blood, and that fanatics like those in the service of Dragons, especially evil ones, only have one way out... death.  At least, that's what he thinks.

EDIT - Found the entry.  Chaotic Neutral it is!


----------



## HolyMan

NP I just need to know for future reference. I understand his actions now, what will he do next time. 

These things help me gather ideas for character growth and such. I will probably put Mal in the same situation but this time it wouldn't be to his benefit. 

HM


----------



## Axel

Sorry for the lack of activity on my part for the past 2-3 days.  Been stupid busy.  Promise something tomorrow.


----------



## HolyMan

NP I'm just happy we have gotten to the plot of are little adventure and can get something rolling. 

I have learned patience since becoming a big pbp player.

HM


----------



## Axel

To paraphrase Bart Simpson:  "Work's for bums".   Seriously.........who agrees to get someone else to commit 200 hours over 3 weeks without asking them first?

Anyway, my update is up.  Short as it is.  Am hoping there is a place to "buy" basic stuff around the camp.  I just realised Alden has no iron rations, lantern etc.


----------



## HolyMan

Ouch sounds like a lot of work to me.

And in this game you don't go buy gear you are issued it. But you can get some stuff once you reach Rem shopping will give you a chance to mix with the locals.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok gang Experience will be tonight but will be late as I am leaving for work in about 1/2 an hour and won't get home till after 11pm (EST). 

But I have it mostly figured just going to wait as FtF is up in the IC and could post again before tonight.

Also [MENTION=54988]Dragonwriter[/MENTION] - Barrik is up in the WotBS game or is he holding action?

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Oops, wasnt' aware I was holding this up.  Posted, but not much to do, as I am stuck where I am, keeping the healing going.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Also Dragonwriter- Barrik is up in the WotBS game or is he holding action?
> 
> HM




He's... deciding. I hadn't gotten around to it. Away from home for a few days, then doing a combat demonstration at a school this morning/noon.

And it's my birthday today.  

Yep, I'm a Tax Day kid.

(No, I won't say how old I am.)


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

*happy birthday!!!*


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience April 1st - April 15th*



		Code:
	

Player                     XP
Axel                      245
Zerith                    230
ghostcat                  530
Dragonwriter              425
jackslate45               190
Fangor the Fierce         365
Aldern Foxglove           160


*Congrats & Happy Birthday to Dragonwriter for reaching LvL 6 and becoming a year older!!!!*
*
Congrats to Zerith for reaching LvL 2*

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

TEASE!!!!  I earned 760xp last time, so here I was thinking I would get  JUST enough to level.  Then I earn only 365xp this time.  Ok, next time I won't go killing your pet dragon shaman in the game, hahahahaha.  May 1st!  That's my day!  Then I will get my breath weapon!!!

Unless, of course, you kill me!


----------



## Dragonwriter

There's always less XP handed out during a combat. Less posts all around and less RP happening. 

Anyways, concerning my 6th level... I brought this up a little while back and didn't get a response at the time, so here it is again: I'd like to trade out Spell Power +2 for a feat. Whirlwind Attack perhaps, since my other trade-feats have been in the same tree, or Power Attack, since Jareth's style is about getting in fast, hitting hard and getting back out.

If you think Spell Power +2 isn't quite worth either of those feats, perhaps trading it for some other kind of bonus (or a weaker feat, like Weapon Focus) would work. Frankly, I'm looking to trade out all the Spell Power business, so perhaps an increasing bonus on something else would do the trick.


----------



## HolyMan

DW has it right. I think it is do to waiting your turn and waiting on me, etc.

Between March 16th and March 31 there was 72 posts in K2V but, 

April 1st - April 15th only 23 total posts.

I'm thinking of maybe upping the multiplier I use by 1.5 for posts during combat. But then again this would (and should) add to the reason the group should try to forgo combat (a lucky crit killing him should be another).

__________________________________________________

Spell Power is a little weak as you need to...

a) be fighting a creature with SR and

b) hit first while channeling

So I am ok with a switch out but you already get a feat at 6th lvl so it could be a combat feat. Are you saying you don't yet qualify for Whirlwind Attack?

A swap need not only be a feat but if it is it should try and match the "power level" of the ability in question. I'm glad you see it this way as well. So how about you take a non combat feat (one not marked as a fighter bonus feat) for swapping out Spell Power as it seems on the weaker side as abilities go.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> DW has it right. I think it is do to waiting your turn and waiting on me, etc.
> 
> Between March 16th and March 31 there was 72 posts in K2V but,
> 
> April 1st - April 15th only 23 total posts.
> 
> I'm thinking of maybe upping the multiplier I use by 1.5 for posts during combat. But then again this would (and should) add to the reason the group should try to forgo combat (a lucky crit killing him should be another).




From what I can see, we haven't really had a choice about avoiding combats... Looking back since my involvement, the Ettercap, the gnolls, the hydra rant, the battlefield, the zombies, the Reavers; all more-or-less scripted encounters. Possibly delay-able in a few cases (the Reavers in particular), but all would've happened with or without player choice. Or at least it appears that way.

So as I see it, we really haven't had a choice when it comes to picking our battles. And we get reduced XP for it, when the normal system rewards combat. Just food for thought. 

On to other matters...



> Spell Power is a little weak as you need to...
> 
> a) be fighting a creature with SR and
> 
> b) hit first while channeling
> 
> So I am ok with a switch out but you already get a feat at 6th lvl so it could be a combat feat. Are you saying you don't yet qualify for Whirlwind Attack?
> 
> A swap need not only be a feat but if it is it should try and match the "power level" of the ability in question. I'm glad you see it this way as well. So how about you take a non combat feat (one not marked as a fighter bonus feat) for swapping out Spell Power as it seems on the weaker side as abilities go.
> 
> HM




Actually, I don't need to hit while Channeling. I just need to hit the target in melee. But the target needs to have SR in order for the ability to have any effect, and SR doesn't look like a common thing in this campaign.

I do qualify for Whirlwind Attack. I was just asking about it concerning possibilities. Then again, there is also next level's "Armored Mage (Heavy Shield)" ability, which we have been trading out for combat-oriented feats. Anyways, here is a list of a few low-power, non-Fighter feats I dug up as possible swaps for Spell Power:
[sblock=Feats]
Core:
The save –boosting feats (Great Fort, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes).
Improved Initiative.

There are non-Core. One is in the Psionics section of the SRD, but is not a Psionic feat. The others I can type up in full and send you the info.
Sidestep Charge (SRD/Expanded Psionics Handbook) - +4 Dodge AC against charges, foe who misses on a charge attack provokes AoO. Not a Fighter feat.
Dash (Complete Warrior) - +5 ft of speed when wearing light or no armor. Not a Fighter feat.
Touch Spell Specialization (Complete Arcane) - +2 damage bonus on Touch spells. Not a Fighter feat.
[/sblock]

I'm looking at Power Attack for my 6th-level feat... And then trading "Armored Mage (Heavy Shield)" for Whirlwind Attack next level. Since the various Armored Mage abilities are rather potent, I think it would be a fairer trade.


----------



## jackslate45

teasing is part of the fun of random XP like this.   you think your gonna level then suddenly BLAM!  wait 15+ more days.

At the same time, I don't think anyone is going to die.  we just get out of cross bolt range, and it becomes a stand off.


----------



## HolyMan

Actually DW if I was rewarding XP based on combat encounters I think you would have about the same XP (15,000) don't you?

Hmmm... I think your may have something here. I have tried to have a combat every now and then as it is what most players are looking to get into. But I have yet to give a combat you could sneak past, bribe, or talk your way out of. Looks like I need to work on that. My bad.

The feat choices you suggest look alright to me for a swap of Spell Power. Let me know when your lvl up is complete. 

_____________________________________

Not random I have a system (somewhat) It just has never been used before. I feel giving out XP twice a month is one of the better aspects of Off to War. I have been in games that have gone a year and then you just lvl up. Or they don't even get that far.

I think it is working if you truly break it down...

Axel - his character is lvl 1 and he received almost 25% of the XP needed for his next LvL ( 8 posts). would need 32 posts to lvl up.

ghostcat - his character is LvL 6, he posted 5 times and got nearly 10% the XP needed to reach LvL 7. Would need 50 posts to LvL up which is only 18 more posts even though the XP he needs is 6 times higher than the LvL 1 character.

And I get to tease with it so it is win/win. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Actually DW if I was rewarding XP based on combat encounters I think you would have about the same XP (15,000) don't you?




It's entirely possible. It's even possible we would be lower level if you were just doing by-the-book combat-based XP. 
My point, however, was pertaining to state of affairs we often reach during a fight - particularly the reduced posts and therefore XP. I also know you tend to give a little bonus after the completion of a big fight and a more-significant bonus at the conclusion of a story arc, so it may well balance out. It just doesn't balance that little twinge of disappointment we sometimes feel after getting a nice load of XP during the RP segments, then something roughly half of what we had before (as pointed out by Fangor above). And as I said before, just food for thought. 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the actual advancement of my character. PbPs are notoriously slow when it comes to gaining levels.



> Hmmm... I think your may have something here. I have tried to have a combat every now and then as it is what most players are looking to get into. But I have yet to give a combat you could sneak past, bribe, or talk your way out of. Looks like I need to work on that. My bad.




No guarantees we'd really take that option, seeing as we've got some very thick-headed party members (Jareth included, naturally ), but it would add to the player choice aspect. And it would help emphasize the face-man style characters if/when they join the others.
(Assuming they survive to do so and survive the meeting  - I foresee trouble between Jareth and Alexander.)



> The feat choices you suggest look alright to me for a swap of Spell Power. Let me know when your lvl up is complete.




Excellent. I settled on Sidestep Charge. And we'll just keep the others in mind for when I get the next Spell Power iteration, yes? Anyways, here is Jareth's level-up info for your approval.

[sblock=Jareth Level 6 Changes]
Jareth Level-up.

HP increase in attached die roll (d8+2).
BAB increases to +6/+1. AC bonus increases to +3, according to HR.
Learn 1 2nd-level spell (Touch of Idiocy) and gain 1 extra 1st-level and 1 extra 2nd-level spell slot.
Gain Spell Power +2, trade for Sidestep Charge feat.
Gain Power Attack as 6th-level feat.
Gain 8 skill points (2 base +2 house rule +3 INT +1 human): Climb +2 (total 9), Concentration +1 (total 11), Knowledge (arcana) +1 (total 12), Ride +1 (total 11), Sense Motive +1 (total 9), Spellcraft +1 (total 16), Tumble +1 (total 12)
[/sblock]


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Oh, don't get me wrong, I was quite content with staying at this level for 15 more days.  Gives me time to 'acquire' my new abilities for the next level with a little more roleplaying.  I wasn't meant to come off as complaining, but I can see where that could be taken that way.  In a sense, I was teasing HM about the 'so close, yet so far away' theme he has us on.

GAME ON!


----------



## HolyMan

Don't see your new saves listed(+5/+2/+5) but I'm sure you will remember to change them also. Looks ok to me. Soon as Jareth gets out of his latest perdicament you can be LvL 6 - Congrats again. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Oh, don't get me wrong, I was quite content with staying at this level for 15 more days.  Gives me time to 'acquire' my new abilities for the next level with a little more roleplaying.  I wasn't meant to come off as complaining, but I can see where that could be taken that way.  In a sense, I was teasing HM about the 'so close, yet so far away' theme he has us on.
> 
> GAME ON!




I didn't take it as complaining. I would like for some way to get the combat posting and the RP posting about the same, but for now have no idea. Like I said I may up the multiplier.

Glad you wish to RP more because as soon as we get into the elven city there will be plenty of that. 

And yes game on.

HM


----------



## jackslate45

I get the sudden fear that Ern might be arrested once we get to the city...


Granted she DOES deserve it, being a criminal and all...


----------



## HolyMan

I would be more worried about what Aver has been up to. 

Hope AFg gets time to RP with us.

HM


----------



## jackslate45

@HolyMan  :have Ern do Spellcraft checks for any spell Desnor Casts.  That way she can think of counter plans after wards, or know how to fix them.

Spellcraft: +11 = +5(Ranks) +4(Int) +2 (Synergy from Know: Arcane).  If in the school of Enchantment, Necromancy, or Evocation, -5


----------



## SJRSamurai

Hi guys, I've just happened on this thread a few minutes ago and decided to join in the fun. I've talked with HM about doing a character in my nick's namesake, a samurai from the complete warrior. HM gave me a few ideas to run with background wise and suggested I come to you guys for help.

So far I have one idea: My character would come from a far away eastern land. Him and his family would have been unjustly exiled with his father not even allowed seppuku (ritual suicide). They would've traveled to the Five Kingdoms where they've settled down. Hoping to regain his family's honor, my character, trained by his father would have sworn himself to a local minor lord.

The lord would have to be very minor yet knowladgeable enough to know about samurais, so that accepting the services of a samurai and sending him off to war would benefit him in the long run. 

If you guys have idea about the lord or other suggestions, I'm all ears


----------



## HolyMan

Maybe you shouldn't be pledge to start as I think a little RPing and hearing about Lord Bairan and his feats may just be the link in.

You will be in Rem and will meet Axel and Zerith's characters and be playing with them till the other group is done and everyone links up at the main army.

Ok remember I don't have the complete warrior so have no idea of the crunch but will look into it.

EDIT: got you on the Spellcraft checks jackslate45 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

SJRSamurai said:


> Hi guys, I've just happened on this thread a few minutes ago and decided to join in the fun. I've talked with HM about doing a character in my nick's namesake, a samurai from the complete warrior. HM gave me a few ideas to run with background wise and suggested I come to you guys for help.
> 
> So far I have one idea: My character would come from a far away eastern land. Him and his family would have been unjustly exiled with his father not even allowed seppuku (ritual suicide). They would've traveled to the Five Kingdoms where they've settled down. Hoping to regain his family's honor, my character, trained by his father would have sworn himself to a local minor lord.
> 
> The lord would have to be very minor yet knowladgeable enough to know about samurais, so that accepting the services of a samurai and sending him off to war would benefit him in the long run.
> 
> If you guys have idea about the lord or other suggestions, I'm all ears




Before anything else, welcome! 

Now, on to advice... Speaking from a power-oriented standpoint, the Samurai class is near-garbage. Sorry.  
So is there any particular reason you really want the class, other than the name? Because names are easy to change. 
And the way HM has set up with the various trades, it would be easy to swap in a few things you like about the class into a class that is generally much more useful/powerful.

In any case, personality does tend to be more important than class. I suppose I should note many pieces of advice from me will come from two points of view. On the one hand, I support making your character potent and able to keep up with the rest of the party. And on the other hand, I advocate preserving the idea/theme/style of the character.


----------



## HolyMan

Also maybe your character isn't fully trained. They do start at a young age maybe it wasn't something his father started teaching till recently (is he dying? Or to old to go after the Stolen Dashio and your character has gone off half trained?)

This way you could be a samurai in some sense but mix other things into it.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

FtF and ghostcat go ahead and post up actions if you wish I don't think anything the others do (Tira, Cedric, Aver or the Thug) will effect your decisions.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HM - Since the thug is down, and there are dead bodies, what things are available to use?  I am assuming Haden has a dragon gauntlet.  I also assume that the downed thug has a crossbow?  Light or Heavy?  I would like to get as many ranged weapons ready to give the enemy a taste of their own medicine.


----------



## SJRSamurai

Dragonwriter said:


> Before anything else, welcome!
> 
> Now, on to advice... Speaking from a power-oriented standpoint, the Samurai class is near-garbage. Sorry.
> So is there any particular reason you really want the class, other than the name? Because names are easy to change.
> And the way HM has set up with the various trades, it would be easy to swap in a few things you like about the class into a class that is generally much more useful/powerful.
> 
> In any case, personality does tend to be more important than class. I suppose I should note many pieces of advice from me will come from two points of view. On the one hand, I support making your character potent and able to keep up with the rest of the party. And on the other hand, I advocate preserving the idea/theme/style of the character.




Thank you for the welcome, I do agree that as I re-read the class after dusting my books you are quite right, probably confused the CW one with the OA one. In any case as I saw both your and HMs posts, ideas on background kept popping in my head, so I'd like to stick with his concept, a son of a disgraced samurai who tries to regain the honor of his family and find the ancestral swords of his family.

I'm seeing him as a pure martial character and I saw him maybe working towards a "samurai like" PrC(I'll have to check what that would be eventually) but I've never been one to optimize a character. Seeing the concept I figured that 2 classes could fit well as a base to jump to a samurai like PrC, knight from the PHB2 or the good old fighter. The only thing messing the concept up the fighter class would be the class skill selections as samurais were trained in etiquette and poetry from a young age. What do you guys think?


----------



## HolyMan

@ FtF - two downed thugs both with Light crossbows about, Haden has some gear but I think it best to spend a round searching through it. 

@ SJ - I like the background and maybe Fighter with a samurai conduct would work and you can start building feat trees to gain the "samurai like" abilities.

You can trade up your class skills to better suit your archtype of character or swap out a feat - if you don't think you will need heavy armor right away (or eventually) trade it out to gain two new skills as class skills.

HM


----------



## Zerith

So I need to make a dice role for hp? hmmm
And, when is Alex going to post? I've been waiting >_<

Also, looks like my character is going to have a +15 modifier for diplomacy: Level Two, it's of of speech O_O;


----------



## Dragonwriter

SJRSamurai said:


> Thank you for the welcome, I do agree that as I re-read the class after dusting my books you are quite right, probably confused the CW one with the OA one. In any case as I saw both your and HMs posts, ideas on background kept popping in my head, so I'd like to stick with his concept, a son of a disgraced samurai who tries to regain the honor of his family and find the ancestral swords of his family.




As I understand, the OA Samurai class is superior. But I've never looked at OA, so I can't really be sure.



> I'm seeing him as a pure martial character and I saw him maybe working towards a "samurai like" PrC(I'll have to check what that would be eventually) but I've never been one to optimize a character. Seeing the concept I figured that 2 classes could fit well as a base to jump to a samurai like PrC, knight from the PHB2 or the good old fighter. The only thing messing the concept up the fighter class would be the class skill selections as samurais were trained in etiquette and poetry from a young age. What do you guys think?




Well, which aspect of the samurai style were you most interested in following? The 'fight against all odds, beyond the point of death' Seven Samurai style? The 'single strike ends the battle before it begins' style? The noble, honorable warrior defending the interests of his lord?
The more info we(/I) have on what you are trying to achieve, the more help can be offered. 

As to the classes, Knight will likely get more of what you are after if it's honorable single combat or holding the line against a horde of foes. Only power-problem is the reliance on Charisma. It really doesn't do enough else for you to make it a really useful thing. Fighter is a little trickier... You get a lot of feats, but not much else. Of course, there are ways to tailor the feats to fit the style, and they allow you to really master your chosen weapon (katana, I assume).
Personally, between the two, I'd likely take the Knight. Better HD, better defenses and the ability to make foes come to you or face a penalty if they go after your allies. Very good for the whole 'defender of the people' thing.


----------



## SJRSamurai

Well for what I'm trying to emulate is the honorable defender of his lord/adopted people. I also want him to be close to an historical representation, wich means less katana focussed than what you would otherwise see.

Samurais were masters of many weapons not just the sword, although it was an important part of their gear, so was the bow, spear and other various weapons. I think the knight would be the best fit.


----------



## Dragonwriter

SJRSamurai said:


> Well for what I'm trying to emulate is the honorable defender of his lord/adopted people. I also want him to be close to an historical representation, wich means less katana focussed than what you would otherwise see.
> 
> Samurais were masters of many weapons not just the sword, although it was an important part of their gear, so was the bow, spear and other various weapons. I think the knight would be the best fit.




Very true, much like the European Knights. The sword or katana just gets a lot of focus. Largely due to a mix of cool factor, romanticism and the really nice ones being really pretty, I believe.  After all, some of the most exquisite weapons ever created were various swords and katanas. Real works of art.

But for game mechanics (since Knight doesn't get the awesome Warblade toy of being able to change all weapon-specific feats to a different weapon after an hour of practice), you're generally better off focusing on one weapon and keeping the others as back-ups.

Anyways, for more class-based info... There are no PrCs capable of advancing the Knight abilities. So you may want to remain single-classed. This campaign isn't particularly high-power, so it should be such an issue with a Knight class character. If you really want a PrC, the Knight Protector fits the concept. You could also look at the Kensai PrC, which tends to be pretty good (but you will be _required_ to focus on a particular weapon).

Still, not a single Prestige Class exists that will make your Knight class features better. Your Challenges will not increase in number or DC, nor will you gain the more advanced uses of the Challenge.


----------



## Axel

Hey, I'm posting.    Just not as much as I did in the previous weeks.  I hate my life, my job and most things around me at the moment.  Can't even make my regular RL D&D sessions...

SJRSamurai:  There are many multi-class options open to you.  I suppose it depends if you want your character to have grown up with the typical D&D "Western Europe" culture, or if he grew up in the "East" and was exiled as a teenager.  Fighter and/or Samurai could work well.  You could always have him grow as a person and develop religous traits, or take on the role of a "Western" noble and become a Knight etc.  Hell, maybe he hates his Dad and wants to become a Wizard (or Wu Jen)?


----------



## Axel

Yay, double post...

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] - I am happy to move on to the next morning.  A 2 PC adventure (so far) where the PCs do not particularly like each other.  Awesome.


----------



## Zerith

Ja, I'm also ready. :3


----------



## HolyMan

Updated my OOC post and need Alexander's Lvl up plz.

I hope to get SJ into the game as well (along with any other lurkers out there -  ) wonder whose side he'll be on? LOL

HM


----------



## Zerith

It has been up, I just edited his original post and added a dice role to it for hp (how I  Love rolling a two...) so yesh, 15 Diplomacy :3
[also, just noticed that his ride is saying +2 and not +4, fixing it now ^^;]


----------



## HolyMan

FtF up to finish the current round. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Zerith said:


> It has been up, I just edited his original post and added a dice role to it for hp (how I  Love rolling a two...) so yesh, 15 Diplomacy :3
> [also, just noticed that his ride is saying +2 and not +4, fixing it now ^^;]





Your LvL up looks good to go Zerith, thanks.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Very sorry for the delay gang. Totally my fault and that darn RL monster getting a bite out of me.

K2V is updated and ready will be doing TCtCM before the night is over. 

Please double check your HP As I am having trouble remebering if I had already given out the +1 for healing aura or not sometimes. I think it has to do with the middle of the round updates. 

Will start from here on not adjusting till the final post.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Very sorry for the delay gang. Totally my fault and that darn RL monster getting a bite out of me.
> 
> K2V is updated and ready will be doing TCtCM before the night is over.
> 
> Please double check your HP As I am having trouble remebering if I had already given out the +1 for healing aura or not sometimes. I think it has to do with the middle of the round updates.
> 
> Will start from here on not adjusting till the final post.
> 
> HM




Don't think Trinham's HPs have been adjusted. Posts 601, 611, 616 & 618 all have him at 24 HP.


----------



## HolyMan

Hmmm... I thought I added in your LvL up HP after you casted the fireball.

I did not? I will look into it.

HM


----------



## Axel

Dear god I don't even know what the creature that is going to feast on Alden's terrified corpse is!!  Sadly I don't think all the Charisma in the world (including a +15 diplomacy from Alex) will help in the slightest here...  Well, Alden has lasted longer than some characters I have had.


----------



## HolyMan

Don't worry the gnoll cavalry is coming to the rescue. I hope 

HM


----------



## Axel

Huzzah for NPCs coming to the rescue of borderline incompetent level 1 and 2 PCs!


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Hmmm... I thought I added in your LvL up HP after you casted the fireball.
> 
> I did not? I will look into it.
> 
> HM




HM. I think you added in the level up but not the last healing aura.


----------



## ghostcat

Waiting to see what happens between Mal and the zombie (if anything) before adding Trinham's actions.


----------



## Zerith

"borderline incompetent"
If Alden even implied that he would die very slowly 
Because Alexander is any thing but vengeful ^^;

Addon: Made another drawing of Alex, And its not the mage armor he is using now, I would say its mid high level ^^;
That said what he is using now is a cruder version that is much more vapory ^^;


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> HM. I think you added in the level up but not the last healing aura.




Healing aura doesn't give back the HP if you have greater than half your HP left.

At least I do believe it works like that.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit

This is a game that it really doesn't matter what class I choose, because there's no guarantee there will be any sort of 'class balance'.  I'm going to assume that this game is more story-driven than combat-driven... 

I read earlier that the "group" is Rogue-light.  I like the idea of being able to build a 'custom' class.

What to do, now? 

OMG... this could very well be the game to see my dream of Bard/Warlock/Chameleon...


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Healing aura doesn't give back the HP if you have greater than half your HP left.
> 
> At least I do believe it works like that.
> 
> HM




Yeah, DS doesn't heal after you hit the halfway point. Awesome for saving your Cleric's spells for a while, but it won't put everyone at top-notch.



Herobizkit said:


> This is a game that it really doesn't matter what class I choose, because there's no guarantee there will be any sort of 'class balance'.  I'm going to assume that this game is more story-driven than combat-driven...




Story-driven is a resounding yes. Personality matters more than stats (most of the time).



> I read earlier that the "group" is Rogue-light.  I like the idea of being able to build a 'custom' class.
> 
> What to do, now?




We actually do have a legitimate trap-finder now. But we are missing someone capable of actual healing. The Dragon Shaman auras are great at keeping us from dying outright, but it is a little limited (as mentioned above). Cleric, Druid, Bard (or even Ranger or Paladin with a wand) would probably help the party more, for survival.



> OMG... this could very well be the game to see my dream of Bard/Warlock/Chameleon...




That's possible. But you'll have to provide HM with the class info on stuff he doesn't have (which means Warlock and Chameleon, though Chameleon is available in an online preview).


----------



## HolyMan

Welcome Herobizkit. 

Possibilities are endless so long as you are ready to RP and have fun. 

That said I have gone to your Chameleon link from the other thread and it looks fun for sure. It isn't an option till at least 6th lvl so you could go another route by then, but I might just put something like the School of Broad Horizons along your characters path.

 I dislike warlock but I am known not to just say no. It's just unlimited range attacks make the class seem unbalanced. 

Also you would be joining the Beguiler and Rogue (Zerith and Axel).

And later linking up with the others. I think we lost AFg (Aver) to the real world monster  And I was so wanting to RP with him when you all reach the elven city. Darn it.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@ FtF would Malaroc throw into combat or wait?

HM


----------



## Axel

My opinion, fwiw, on why the group lacks healers is because there is no readily visible information on the game pantheon (with the unspoken assumption that most healers are clerics).  I made the connection to a lack of divine magic in the rogue's gallery when creating Alden, but couldn't find enough information on deities, priestly cults etc to put together a reasonable first draft of a cleric.  If I was going to RP a cleric (I love the class, which may also be why I avoided it) I normally want/need to know more info about the God(s) s/he believe in.

My apologies if there is some data floating around the interwebz...I just couldn't find it.


----------



## HolyMan

No there is not I think the diety info listed here...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/258310-five-kingdoms.html

Is up to date. Scratch_back and I were working on a church theme for his character. I wanted a one church that combined the religion of all the Five Kingdoms. Each kingdom has one main god they worship from the pantheon but this church combines them all in an attempt to better unify the different kingdoms. Not finished or added.

There is no pantheon so that when your character encounter a priest you (the player) will know only as much as your character. It allows for me to throw curve balls. 

ME - _"Yes he is wearing a holy symbol in the shape of a heart with a feather stuck through it. Why?"_

YOU -_ "He couldn't have been the poisoner that holy symbol seems like he worships a good god maybe a healer or something."
_
ME - _"Your character doesn't know this but that is the symbol for Thurks God of Assassins. The heart and feather represent their lawful side to kill without pain or torment. They stab the heart just with something softer." _

Better than you (the player) knowing and then not being surprised.

It also allows for player to contribute and make a god more to their liking. You could multi-class to cleric if you wish. I will put whatever church to whomever you wish in Rem if you like. 

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Throwing into combat... not sure.  I thought we were not in melee yet, so as soon as one of the enemies went for melee, I figured it would grant Mal the small window of opportunity to chuck his last javelin at the now open foe.  If they are in combat, then he won't throw it in there if there is a chance he would hit his own ally.


----------



## Axel

A church, religous epiphany and sacred vows!  Now that is a plot twist that I didn't think of until you threw the seeds into my mind!  

I will think about it over the weekend (can't stop thinking of ideas already...) and let you know on [my] Monday morning HM.  Cheers!


----------



## Herobizkit

Well, if Cleric is what is needed, I'm not against it.  I'm going to see if there's a round-about way to get into Chameleon with the Cloistered Cleric variant.  I'm not so in love with the Warlock that I can't let it go - unlimited range attacks (I probably would have gone 3 levels in for 2d6) and invocations are all it's got, anyhow.

Also, I never hold my breath when it comes to prestige classes... I very seldom get characters high enough to get one, and the waiting is the hardest part. 

LOL! I'll be joining the Beguiler (a Charismatic rogue-type) and an actual Rogue.  It makes MORE sense to make a Bard as theme, but I do looove me a Cloistered Cleric.

Here's a question: do you still use Vancian magic or have you opted for a different casting system?  My greatest dislike of Clerics is spell "memorization".  I really love the Favored Soul way of casting (like Sorcerers), but the Soul does not get any of the Clerical treats.


----------



## jackslate45

prestige classes are an interesting thing.  for some classes they can wait till later to get into them, while others need to get into them right away.

speaking of which, I should get HM the prestige classes that I was thinking of going into.

EDIT: A cloistered cleric would be an excellent addition.  I always enjoyed playing with them, and the skills they get are amazing as well.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> I dislike warlock but I am known not to just say no. It's just unlimited range attacks make the class seem unbalanced.




It's about the same power (possibly less) as a well-built archer. Warlock's only real benefit is the Touch portion. And even that suffers if facing, say, a Monk. Or various small monsters with high Dex and Deflection bonuses (will-o'-wisp, for instance). And Warlocks have Medium BAB, not High, making them a bit less accurate (since they tend to want CHA for a boost on Use Magic Device and their Invocations).

And on the note of PrCs: Unless something comes up in-game that really changes Jareth's style, he will remain single-class Duskblade.
Really folks, PrCs are not a necessary component, especially for this game.

EDIT: And Herobizkit, there is the Spontaneous Divine Casting Variant in UA/SRD. HM might be convinced to allow it. Especially since it (theoretically) powers down the Cleric a little.


----------



## Herobizkit

I would have to find a way to get Bluff and Disguise on my skills list.  Trickery domain is easiest, but typical... and just as well, given my Roguish companions. 

Ohhh... this could work.  I think I'm going to steal from another character I ran and make this guy a Barrister/Solicitor.  He'll worship a deity of commerce, not unlike Waukeen (Realms) or Abadar (Pathfinder).  He could be from a city with a 'rough' docks district... he could be like a fantasy Customs agent, checking goods as they come in, as well as appraising their value and checking for forgeries.  As a "healer", he would also be able to treat injuries from scuffles, sick crewmen...

And becoming a Chameleon... perhaps he now takes his bit on the road by commission. Perhaps he is searching for pieces to add to his personal collection.  But why the Disguise?  As he moves from town to town checking for 'deals', he first arrives under an assumed name and persona to "keep the heat off".

I shall think more on this.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Part of the class customization allows for you to swap skills around. 

And Cloistered Cleric certainly has enough skills to be able to change a few.


----------



## Herobizkit

After reading the other two Rogue-types, I realize that we may end up being heavily invested in the exact same skills... makes sense, given we're all Rogues, but doesn't allow for a whole lot of skill coverage... 

I suppose if we get separated, it'll be more useful to other parties.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience April 16th - April 30th*



		Code:
	

Player                 XP
Zerith                300
Axel                  220
ghostcat              380
Fangor the Fierce     225
Dragonwriter          380
jackslate45           200


Well I am truly sorry about the slow posting on my part. And I added some bonus XP to help bring the totals up from what they were (you think the above numbers are low ?!? ) 

I will update both games SUN nite and try to answer some of the questions posted here, before bed.

Again sorry (specially to FtF) I am working on a way to make combat posts worth a little more XP to compensate for all the waiting. 


HM


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Throwing into combat... not sure.  I thought we were not in melee yet, so as soon as one of the enemies went for melee, I figured it would grant Mal the small window of opportunity to chuck his last javelin at the now open foe.  If they are in combat, then he won't throw it in there if there is a chance he would hit his own ally.




When I update Tira will be in melee with the zombie. She moved to a bad spot to "protect" Jareth and gave the zombie a chances to make a 5' step and attack. So no opening, sorry. If you change your mind let me know before tomorrow night.



Axel said:


> A church, religous epiphany and sacred vows!  Now that is a plot twist that I didn't think of until you threw the seeds into my mind!
> 
> I will think about it over the weekend (can't stop thinking of ideas already...) and let you know on [my] Monday morning HM.  Cheers!




Oh yes it will have everything a typical roman style catholic church would have. Including an inquisition. 



Herobizkit said:


> Here's a question: do you still use Vancian magic or have you opted for a different casting system?  My greatest dislike of Clerics is spell "memorization".  I really love the Favored Soul way of casting (like Sorcerers), but the Soul does not get any of the Clerical treats.




Rules allow for you to keep slots open for later filling. It takes I believe 15 minutes of prayer but let's you have whatever you need when needed.



Herobizkit said:


> I would have to find a way to get Bluff and Disguise on my skills list.  Trickery domain is easiest, but typical... and just as well, given my Roguish companions.
> 
> Ohhh... this could work.  I think I'm going to steal from another character I ran and make this guy a Barrister/Solicitor.  He'll worship a deity of commerce, not unlike Waukeen (Realms) or Abadar (Pathfinder).  He could be from a city with a 'rough' docks district... he could be like a fantasy Customs agent, checking goods as they come in, as well as appraising their value and checking for forgeries.  As a "healer", he would also be able to treat injuries from scuffles, sick crewmen...
> 
> And becoming a Chameleon... perhaps he now takes his bit on the road by commission. Perhaps he is searching for pieces to add to his personal collection.  But why the Disguise?  As he moves from town to town checking for 'deals', he first arrives under an assumed name and persona to "keep the heat off".
> 
> I shall think more on this.




Sounds like you would be from Farshaw. I have an idea about how this could play in with the over all campaign if you are set on going this route.

Take your time and let me know when you are ready to play. This game will be around and for that I am grateful.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> When I update Tira will be in melee with the zombie. She moved to a bad spot to "protect" Jareth and gave the zombie a chances to make a 5' step and attack. So no opening, sorry. If you change your mind let me know before tomorrow night.




Speaking of which, I'd like to trip her, if I could. 3 AoOs/round, +10 Touch, +7 STR for such a thing. Jareth wouldn't really like the idea, but it would be better to pull her off her feet than see her get munched on by a zombie. 

Besides, "protect Jareth"? She's seen pretty plainly he is more competent and dangerous a warrior than herself.


----------



## Herobizkit

I think the hardest part of choosing a character is that a) I usually pick a class based on what everyone needs and b) level 1 character stories are always so blah.  I can't get my head around playing basically the same skill set as the other two people you want to put me with.  I guess I'm just feeling challenged with no inspiration at present, combined with the "level one blues".


----------



## Axel

[MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION]

I don't see any requirement to create a character that gets along with, or conforms to the needs of, the mini-party in TCtCM.  Making a cleric of the god of divine justice, retribution and smiting who never talks in anything less than a shout would be both amusing, fun to RP and an endless source of "quality" RP material for both Zerith and I to play off (which would, hopefully, feed back to material for you).  It would also fill a need for the mini-party (someone who has HP, can wear heavy armour and stand front 'n' centre in combat).

Characters are not defined at 1st level anymore than you were (or will be) defined by who you were (will be) when you finished high school.  That is why I like creating characters at level 1.  They grow - as "people" and as personalities.

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]

I am going to type out my thoughts on Alden's possible future development as a divine caster of some type shortly.  Yay for typing...  A more heartfelt yay for XP though!  Alden should reach level 2 in a few weeks.


----------



## Herobizkit

Axel said:


> I don't see any requirement to create a character that gets along with, or conforms to the needs of, the mini-party in TCtCM.  Making a cleric of the god of divine justice, retribution and smiting who never talks in anything less than a shout would be both amusing, fun to RP and an endless source of "quality" RP material for both Zerith and I to play off (which would, hopefully, feed back to material for you).  It would also fill a need for the mini-party (someone who has HP, can wear heavy armour and stand front 'n' centre in combat).



Heh, it's funny you should say that - I generally never make heavy-armor characters.  Just about every character I've ever made was Dex-centric.

My mood changes daily, which usually affects how I design my characters.  Re-reading the Barrister idea, I realize that I don't (presently) want to play a stuffy bookworm.  But I might in a few days.

As I may have mentioned, putting a lot of thought into a 1st level character is wasteful because of what you said about the high-school comparison, plus the high likelihood that I will grow bored of waiting x-y-z levels to play the character I want.  On the up side, HolyMan does allow straight character swapping.

To that end, it's looking like a Warrior-esque Bard is the more favorable choice for first level, and then maybe joining  @Axel  's character for some Cloistered Cleric upon 2nd level.  This will require a bit of planning on my part, but I'm sure I can meet the Chameleon's prereq's the earliest this way as well.


----------



## Herobizkit

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: new plan.

Similar idea, but instead of a lawyer, I'd like to make him sort of a fantasy DEA agent.  A Bard soldier, working his way up the ranks to Chameleon, where he could become an "undercover gang infiltrator".

The only fiddly bits I'm considering:
a) I would like to change him to a Divine Bard as per the UA variants in the SRD.  This could tie me to a church of some kind.
b) I am debating on requesting an increase in HP to d8 and/or martial weapon proficiencies in exchange for reduced bardic spell-casting, losing 1 spell/day.  This is how the Skald 'kit' is laid out in the old Quintessential Bard.

Thoughts?

As is, my stats will be: S 16, D 12, Co 14, I 10, W 14, Ch 14.


----------



## Axel

Hehe, you change your mind just as often as I do!  

If you almost never play someone with heavy armour, consider it a challenge!  I almost never play a Rogue, so opted into it for my first (and so far only) PbP game.  For this exact reason, I don't think Alden will become a divine caster at level 2.  I commonly play divine casters...good to break the mold.  So...don't rely on my character as a plot springboard to become a Cleric of some description.


----------



## Herobizkit

@Axel : Playing someone with heavy armor isn't a challenge, though... it's boring.  Playing someone who can wear armor but doesn't - THAT'S a challenge.

Then again, I've been playing over 20 years, so maybe that's part of my issue.

Another part of my issue is my 'vision' of a campaign world.  Armor is bulky, heavy, expensive, and can easily be replaced with magic.  I don't 'see' characters trotting around wearing armor unless they HAVE to, and in most games I play, they never have to.

I generally play bards/social characters/skill monkeys/healers, but the campaigns in which I play never seem to last very long.  I enjoy the 'support' role.

If you're not going priest, even more reason for me to do so when I hit 2nd.


----------



## Herobizkit

double post.  Grrr.


----------



## Axel

Personally, I don't find heavy armour proficiency to be that great a class feature.  It's not nearly as useful as, say, martial weapon proficiency.

That said, heavy armour at low levels is great!  Anything to stop your character potentially dying in one fell series of 20's is a good idea.  At higher levels it doesn't really matter, and falls into the same type of decision as "long sword, warhammer or battle axe?".  Mechanically your choices are so similar as to be identical, so it becomes one of style.  "Would my character look cooler covered in spiky plate armour, or wearing a T-shirt and tight leather pants?" is a legitimate question if your choices are mechanically identical!


----------



## HolyMan

I like the DB rule we have come up with for this game (fixed your AC btw DW, thanks for the catch).

It makes it so I don't have to pass out so much magical armor (even though there are not alot of martial classes at present to worry about that) and when I do it will be should I wear it not for the extr AC but whatever abilities are present. Have been thinking that alot of magical armor at high levels will be +1 bit have abilities as the DB rule should keep AC's higher than normal.

That all said I have had alot of luck in my RL games (when I was playing them) with swapping out heavy armor prof at first lvl anf having characters pick it up at 3rd lvl or higher when they can afford said armor (or have found some).

@ Herobizkit - am catching up on all my games but to answer the divine bard I like the class so far - it would be allowed. I can work on your concept into finding the Con-man in question. Perhaps he has offended the church. Your character would be a party of a group looking for him you being 1st lvl are really just a "gofer" for the others and maybe will decide to go it alone before meeting Alex and Alden. Then maybe a little help me and I'll help you would be in order.

HM


----------



## Zerith

Ack, stuff only happens if I don't look! T_T
That said, Alexander is a Noble and ya, Don't expect Mr McSneaky from him, well, mental expect Mr McSneaky from him but don't worry about your coin purse :/
As for why, Level 2, 15 Diplomacy: he talks, a lot ^^;
[as I do ; ]

But I've got to comment about this even full plat armor, Is Not 'Heavy'.
50ish pounds for full plate at the high side, meanwhile present combat gear ranges from as light as 55 pounds to 77 pounds and solders can run with all that on their backs.

meanwhile the plate armor is spread over the entire body, making it relatively lighter still and much easier to maneuver in then the before mentioned combat gear. contrary to popular belief, the largest drawback to plate armor, aside from the cost, that was less then chain mail, was how damned hot it was. not only are you in a suit of metal that gets heated by the sun, but you also have very thick cloth padding under that that makes things even more stuffy; agility was not early as effected as old style moves would have you think.

For example, it's not hard to jump (not climb, jump) into a saddle with full plate on if you're fit.
[no acrobatic nonsense here, but we are talking turn around while the guy is standing, turn back, he is riding off]

I could go on with this line of thought.
However, most people who think of the characteristics of plate armor think of Tournament armor: armor for jousting, and other 'games' was made Much thicker: no one wanted to die from a mere game and mobility, practicality, and even endurance was all but a none issue compared to raw protection; no need to runaway or give chase, did not have to be strapped into the stuff all day long, and you did not have to worry about getting killed if the other guy out lasted you. That said, even in these much heavier suits of plate armor, getting onto a horse did not need any pulleys...

In short: plate armor is not, and was not, 'clumsy' at lest not to the level that you seem to be thinking it is. the plats aren't even that thick and if it was made it so you could not move around well none would ever use it, ever, because the other guy would just walk around you until you tired out and then push you down and stab you in the groin
[it's one of the normal weak spots in plate armor and the largest, when capturing a knight the traditional way (to my knowledge) is to tobble the knight and then threaten the face (through the vizier) the neck, the armpits, or the groin with a dagger. the first and last were, from what I can tell, the easiest to get at, but all were deathblows.]

...

Yesh, I like meh armor, but teh arcane stuff hates it T_T


----------



## Herobizkit

I was talking about the Heavy Armor proficiency,  @Zerith .   Only Fighters, Paladins and Clerics get it for free.  Fighters are dull, Clerics are common, and Paladins (lawful good) makes me wretch.

So yeah, nuts to them.

Even when I go Cleric, I usually go Cloistered Cleric, which only wears light armor; when I make a Fighter, it's usually Dex-based.  And I don't make Paladins.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> Again sorry (specially to FtF) I am working on a way to make combat posts worth a little more XP to compensate for all the waiting. HM




110 xp.  A hundred and ten experience points.  SO CLOSE!  I can taste it!  Oh wait, that's acid... 

No problem, as this should coincide with him being able to breath the acid soon.  It would have been PERFECT for it to have come now, with me next to Desnor now.  "Oh wait, that little switch with the dog has my stomach churning.... I think I am going to puke!"

A stream of acidic bile streams forth from the dragon shaman at the unsuspecting Desnor, as he attempts to ward it away.  The vomit is more than Mal had considered possible, as it streams at an unbelievable force.  Somewhat like their foe Haden's.

Oh wait, wishful thinking.  Hahahahahaha!

I am assuming those thugs furthest east are the ones in the trees, and the one to the far left/west is the one on ground?  Does Desnor have any weapon in hand?  I will also assume that his AC would be 22 vs melee, as there would not be any +4 for cover.


----------



## HolyMan

Please post up the breath attack. I think it fitting.  Just remember your breath weapon is a line.

Quote the above post if you wish.

And yes no cover vs. melee

HM


----------



## Zerith

Hmmm, just noticed you answered one of my questions, that I again stupidly  asked (and have since crossed out) but could the character icon for a  mounted character be on the line between were the front of their mount  and the rear of their mount to make it easier to tell if they mounted or  not, and exactly what spaces the mount is on at a glance (I would  advocate the possibility of making some kind of bookends for the horses  but this is needless work, lining them up over and over again I would  think)

Also, how is a horse handled at a diagonal? would it take the 10" by 10"  normally taken by a large creature or would it allow other creatures to  get along its sides? and it it if the latter: can two Diagonal horses  make a square by being 'beside' each other?


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

but I don't have breath attack yet.  it is next level, lol.


----------



## jackslate45

i think this is one of those "HM's Plot Advancement moves"


----------



## HolyMan

True enough and it will be way cool. 

100 XP is close enough to get at least one new ability as you "grow" into your lvl.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit

'K [MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] I have my character statted out; all he needs now is an appearance and background.  Since religion isn't too established in your world, what should I be coming up with in the way of a church?


----------



## HolyMan

Zerith the horse spots/spaces are really not necessary for this combat. Unless you are going to use your horse as a sacrificial lamb. 

_________________________________________________

For a church are you going with this suggest



> I can work on your concept into  finding the Con-man in question. Perhaps he has offended the church.  Your character would be a party of a group looking for him you being 1st  lvl are really just a "gofer" for the others priests




or something else?

HM


----------



## Zerith

I just lust after details, for in them is both God and The Devil.
Also, if I can back a character into a corner and then use the horse to make it so only one creep can attack Alexander, that is a handy option :3
mainly because it has so much more HP ^^;


----------



## Herobizkit

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: Yep, I'm going to attach myself to 'a church'.  I still plan on going Cloistered Cleric my 2nd level.  I see the Bard as his field training and the Cloistered Cleric as his book learning.  Question is, what god/desses are there? What are churches like?


----------



## HolyMan

Whatever you wish. But from what you are describing as a character you may want a god of knowledge.

But god of travel, merchants, commerce, and "world" knowledge would fit. 

There are no set churches deities as like I told Axel it ruins the surprises I could host later.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit

... In which case, I might as well just copy the Pathfinder god Abadar.  The only catch is, if I do so, I can't technically be a priest of his as a Bard unless I pick true Neutral as an alignment (Bards can't be Lawful, and the Deity is LN).  I was looking more for a Chaotic Good feel (like a cop working around the law to to do good).  Thoughts?

Edit: After reading a conglomerate about True Neutral (http://www.easydamus.com/trueneutral.html), I'd say never mind, and TN suits him JUUUST fine.   Less idealism, more pragmatism.


----------



## Axel

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION]:  I totally agree with your last OOC sblock.  This fight is going the route of classic low level fights. *rolls*  I miss.  *DM rolls*  I miss.  *rolls*  I miss.  *DM rolls*  20!!!!  You die.

Alden needs a 13 to hit with his crossbow.  Probably 2-3 hits required to take 1 down.  So, say 8 rounds of shooting to kill 1.  There are 5.  Once the cats close with the gnolls he will need a 17 to hit...  He is worse in melee though (15 to hit), unless somehow I can work a flank and backstab the SoB's (then back to 13 to hit, with 1 full attack in return likely to kill him).  We'll be pretty desperate before he goes for melee...  Here's hoping the "red shirts" save the day!  Failing that, keep your horse close!!!!


----------



## Zerith

Alexander actually has the advantage here as long as he dos not stand still:
it hits on a 14+, Alex hits on a 12+, and if Alex uses his spell again it will have to roll a 14 or higher to avoid taking d6.
two levels and Alex gets +1 AC to boot XD

Also, as long as you always take a 5' step away from them, they can't  make claw attacks. might stink trying to hit them with Alden's melee  attack, but you will need survivability more then any thing, if you're  only taking bit attacks it will need to hit and make a full d6, that is  about a 06.6% chance of getting one hitted: and this only knocks you out  of the combat, with the claws being used this gos up to a 26.6% chance  of geting one rounded: note this is excluding charge attacks. Also, the  redshirt Gnoll's are stronger in the charge(1d8+3 Vs 1d6, and they hit  more easily, that's right, they can do one hits and you have a party of  them with you! )
and Wetnose should have a class level or two making him a damned sight more powerful then anyone of the krenshars.
The big threat will be their fear ability, they have low will saves  (+0...) so allot of them could flee in the first round. Best hop they do  well in their charges and force the cats into a retreat quick fast and  in a hurry. ^^;
(that said Poobreath is fleeing towards you, he has a long spear and if  he stops fleeing and joins the fight he will basically make a anti charge  wall around himself, stand behind him and to the side and you will be  safe if this happens, other wise just skirt the other Gnolls and make sure you can't be attack by any thing that dos not tak at least one AoO: the cats  CANNOT afford to take AoOs from the Gnolls; if the Gnolls get any free  attacks this becomes massively lop sided. One attack from any of the Gnolls is better then both claw attacks from the cats in both damage and accuracy


----------



## Dragonwriter

Zerith said:


> Also, as long as you always take a 5' step away from them, they can't  make claw attacks.




Where are you getting this idea? Anyone (creatures included) can take 5-ft. steps and full attack. All that happens when you 5-ft. step away and they follow is you end up slowly stepping backwards across the battlefield. (Until you walk off the cliff. )


----------



## Zerith

What? I thought the 5' step was a move action ;
Crap, this has destroyed my odds spectacularly XD


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience May 1st - May 15th*



		Code:
	

Player                           XP
ghostcat                      1,090
jackslate45                     520
Dragonwriter                  1,270
Fangor the Fierce               655
Axel                            150
Zerith                          220


*CONGRATS to Fangor the Fierce for reaching Level 4 
*
and

*CONGRATS to jackslate45 for reaching Level 3*

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Have updated early if everyone would please wait till tomorrow to respond I would be grateful. I am having computer issues and wanted to update asap while I can.

Also in TCtCM - the PCs are up.

And wish to know if 

[MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6673731]SJRSamurai[/MENTION] are still interested in getting into that game.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit

Yep, I keep forgetting to 'post' my character sheet... and I didn't get word back on my character working for an Abadar-like priesthood.

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: My character is complete and posted in the RG here


----------



## HolyMan

Anything will work HB - just make sure it is a character you wish to play is all. 


HM


----------



## jackslate45

WOOT!   Ill get started on the level up post.

EDIT: Did you want me to create a new level up post, or keep it in the same one I have now?  Since I screwed it up after all /blush


----------



## HolyMan

The level up post really isn't working for this poor game should have had everyone post twice and then they would be closer together and all.

It was an idea of mine back when I thought an RG should have more to it. You may start a LvL up post if you wish just link it to your Character Sheet post please.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Woohoo!!! LEVEL UP FINALLY!!  Here is the post, I will link it back to character sheet as usual.

Level 4: Another Level in Dragon Shaman
+1 BAB
+1 to FORT and WILL saves
Breath Weapon - Acid Line, 30', 2d6dmg, 1d4 rounds recharge
Draconic Resolve - Immune to Paralysis and Sleep Effects as well as Immune to Frightful Presence of Dragons
+4 Skill Points (+1 Bluff, +1 Craft, +2 Hide)
+1 Stat Point (+1 Dex)
1d10+2HP (About to Roll Here)


----------



## jackslate45

Ill do it here as well:
Level 3: Wizard level 3
Saves: +1 FORT, +1 Reflex
Feat: Extend Magic
Skills: 9 pts: +1 to Spellcraft, Concentration, 5 Knowledge's(Arcana, Nobility, Religion, The Planes, History); .5 to Bluff (cc), Speak Language(cc);
Languages: Learned Auran.
Spells /day: +4 2nd level spells (1 base - 1 FSB + 3 FSB + 1 INT)
2 additional spells:Glitterdust, Summon Monster 2
HP: 6


----------



## Axel

So, it's quasi-official for TCtCM.  We are/were supposed to run away.  Should've stayed on the horse...  

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION]:  Any chance of many multiple castings of Expeditious Retreat while we get the f*** outta Dodge?


----------



## HolyMan

Chin up ol' boy. 

I have it that the die roller rolls bad the first few rounds of combat for the PCs then it goes their way in the end. 

I guess it likes to scare ya.

HM


----------



## Zerith

well, crap, 4 hp left, and my death or glory attack just floundered epically :/
And no: even if I did go for running there was nothing to hide behind, so it would juust charge him and get a +2 to its attack role, and from what I could see that was not a wise choice(retrospect is 20 20)
 his best bet , as far as he/i saw it, was forcing it to flee by giving it wounds too server to continue to fight with, and he just, barely, failed to so do.

Damn Cowardly Named Gnoll >_<


----------



## Herobizkit

@HolyMan : My character is complete and posted in the RG here


----------



## Dragonwriter

Axel said:


> Any chance of many multiple castings of Expeditious Retreat while we get the f*** outta Dodge?




Even if the Krenshars were that slow, Expeditious Retreat is a Personal spell. Fight for your lives, newbies!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Am I the only one not reading up on the other threads?  I like to keep Mal in the dark as to what's happening around the world, and this makes it easier.  Besides, makes for an interesting conversation when/if they meet up and have to relay information.  History is all in the words of who wrote it....


----------



## Dragonwriter

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Am I the only one not reading up on the other threads?  I like to keep Mal in the dark as to what's happening around the world, and this makes it easier.  Besides, makes for an interesting conversation when/if they meet up and have to relay information.  History is all in the words of who wrote it....




Possibly. 

I like to keep apprised of all that's going on. And it gives me something to do/read beyond my own usual threads.


----------



## Axel

I don't read the threads where my character isn't (though I did do a lot of reading before creating a character).  Like Fangor says, history is written by the victors.  I'd rather hear about what happened from the characters involved than read "the truth".

Fighting for your life is for people (characters) interested in killing stuff.  Alden is a big chicken who doesn't want to die.  Interestingly I never thought of him like that when writing him...  Playing him for a few posts gave me the impression that he would be like a "normal" person in a battle -  scared and a preference for being a live coward rather than a dead hero.    Besides which, if just one of the original characters "survives" then the story remains more-or-less intact.  I can then roll up a half-orc Barbarian and crush all opposition in glorious level 1 combat.


----------



## jackslate45

if i have free time I will read up on the thread, but normally i want to see want happens when they meet.

as for characters, one of the best parts of characters is seeing them evolve.  Someone who is a coward at the beginning can become a battle-hardened commander at the end.  it is all how it progresses.


----------



## HolyMan

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Woohoo!!! LEVEL UP FINALLY!!  Here is the post, I will link it back to character sheet as usual.
> 
> Level 4: Another Level in Dragon Shaman
> +1 BAB
> +1 to FORT and WILL saves
> Breath Weapon - Acid Line, 30', 2d6dmg, 1d4 rounds recharge
> Draconic Resolve - Immune to Paralysis and Sleep Effects as well as Immune to Frightful Presence of Dragons
> +4 Skill Points (+1 Bluff, +1 Craft, +2 Hide)
> +1 Stat Point (+1 Dex)
> 1d10+2HP (About to Roll Here)




*Level UP approved.*



jackslate45 said:


> Ill do it here as well:
> Level 3: Wizard level 3
> Saves: +1 FORT, +1 Reflex
> Feat: Extend Magic
> Skills: 9 pts: +1 to Spellcraft, Concentration, 5 Knowledge's(Arcana, Nobility, Religion, The Planes, History); .5 to Bluff (cc), Speak Language(cc);
> Languages: Learned Auran.
> Spells /day: +4 2nd level spells (1 base - 1 FSB + 3 FSB + 1 INT)
> 2 additional spells:Glitterdust, Summon Monster 2
> HP: 6




If you put one rank into Speak Languages you only get 1/2 a rank so you would be learning the language but not yet know it. If you put in 2 pts for "1 rank" then you would get the language in full.

*Level UP approved otherwise*.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

I like watching them evolve into something I didn't even think of in the beginning. 

HM


----------



## jackslate45

@HolyMan  i put in a rank the level before for each of bluff and speak language at level 2.  this wold be .5->1

EDIT: Did you want me to mark it differently?


----------



## Zerith

Alexander is a Glass Bolder, not a cannon, a bolder, mainly because there is only one, practical, way to stop him once he gets going XD
Also, even if he dose 'die' expect him to comeback latter: he is a PC with a background that almost demands he will, sooner or latter, be revived; all be it somthing like a IC week/month would need to pass before he could be back in the RP (body retrived, sent back to his home, him revived, and than he would have to come back for revenge!)


----------



## HolyMan

*red ink time...*

Tiagio "Tio" Anangale 

*BACKGROUND*
_I had a decent, happy life.  My father was an information broker and  auctioneer; my mother, a priestess serving the Velvet Proctor, the local  God of Wealth and Law. At an early age, I was recognized for my singing  talents and physical strength.  I served in the Proctor's choir while  attending a prestigious Bardic college. Though I did not graduate at the  top of my class, my parent's influence and prestige landed me a cushy  job with the Royal Constabulary, examining trade goods as they came and  left the city.  I even had a girlfriend, too... a dancer unlike any  other.

The the War came._ _

Now i trudge through muck and filth, protecting the borders from  invasion.  I'm far from the warmth and comfort of home, far from the  woman I thought I might marry... _ _

... and I couldn't be happier._ 
*
Great background so am rewarding you with 100 XP of the bat. Note everyone gets +5 XP for their RG post.*

*APPEARANCE*
Tio is a tall, ruggedly handsome man over six feet in height and an  athletic build. He has shoulder length blond hair and a meticulously  maintained goatee.  His piercing blue eyes always seem to be smiling.   He is dressed in full explorer's clothing and bristles with assorted  weapons, favoring the long sword which is strapped neatly behind his  back.  His cloak bears the holy symbol of the Velvet Proctor, a  gold-and-violet griffon rampant bearing a crown and clutching a thick  key in one claw.

*GENERAL*
Race: Human, Gender: Male, Classes: Divine Bard (1st), Alignment: Chaotic Good
*
Need a link to Divine Bard please.*

Age: 18, Height: 6' 2", Weight: 185lb, Hair: Blond with Goatee, Eyes: Blue
STR: 16, DEX: 12, CON: 14, INT: 10, WIS: 14, CHA: 14
*
Only spent 34 out of the 35 pts on abilities.

 AC & SAVES*
HP: 8
AC: 17, Touch: 11, Flat Footed: 16
Fort: +2, Reflex: +3, Will: +4

*COMBAT*
Initiative: +1
*BAB: ?
Grapple: ?*
Longsword (Melee): +3 (1d8+3, 19-20/x2)
Dagger (Melee/Ranged): +3/+1 (1d4+3, 19-20/x2; Range 10)
Sling (Ranged): +1 (1d4+3, x2; Range 50)
Whip (Melee): +3 (1d3+3, x2; Range 15; trip, disarm +2, reach; non-lethal, armor negates damage)

*FEATS*
1st Level: Able Learner, Alertness, Medium Armor Proficiency (Shield Proficiency, Light Armor Proficiency).

*Proficient with all simple weapons as well as longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, short bow, and whip.*

*SKILLS*
Bluff +6, Disguise +6, Knowledge (Arcana, Local, Nature, Religion) +4, Perform +6, Sense Motive +6, Spellcraft +4

*Skill points: 28 [6 (class) + 0 (int)] x 4 + 4;  I see only 26 points spent.
List ACP: -6
Also list Spot and Listen as they get the Alertness bonus.*

*ABILITIES*
Bardic music, bardic knowledge, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1

Spells (2/day, DC 12): daze, light, mending, message

*EQUIPMENT*
Scale Mail armor, Heavy wooden shield, sling with 10 bullets, whip, 3  daggers (leg sheath), longsword, explorer's outfit, backpack, bedroll,  crowbar, 3 pieces of chalk, flint and steel, belt pouch, sack, waterskin  (total weight: 70 lbs)

Money: 16 g, 20 s, 50 cp

*Have starting money at 100gp and money spent at 86.33gp. (leftover gold at 13gp, 6sp, 7cp; Have total weight carried at 71 lbs.

Carrying Capacity:
Light: 0-76
Medium: 77-153
Heavy: 154-230 
*
*EXPERIENCE POINTS*
0 *+105

All and all about ready.

HM
*


----------



## Herobizkit

*Bard Variant: Divine Bard*

Not all bards are arcanists; some derive their special powers from a  divine tradition. In many primitive cultures, the divine bard takes the  place of the cleric or the adept as the guide of the people's religious  beliefs. 
*
Class Features*

The divine bard has all the standard bard class features, except as noted below. 
*
Spellcasting*

A divine bard learns and casts spells as a normal bard, with some minor  exceptions. A divine bard's spells are divine spells, not arcane  spells.

To learn or cast a spell, a divine bard must have a Wisdom score (not  Charisma score) equal to at least 10 + the spell level. All other  Spellcasting factors, including bonus spells and save DCs, are still  determined using the divine bard's Charisma score. 

Like druids, paladins, and rangers, divine bards need not designate a  specific deity as the source of their spells. However, a divine bard  can't cast spells of an alignment  that doesn't match his. Thus, divine bards cannot cast lawful spells  (since bards can't be lawful). Neutral divine bards can't cast any  spells associated with an alignment (and are thus relatively rare). 

Add the following spells to the divine bard's class spell list:  0—create water, cure minor wounds; 1st—detect evil/good/law, protection  from evil/good/law; 2nd—consecrate, desecrate, gentle repose; 3rd—magic  circle against evil/good/law, prayer; 4th—remove disease, speak with  dead, sending; 5th—divination, restoration; 6th—commune, hallow,  unhallow, raise dead.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Axel said:


> Fighting for your life is for people (characters) interested in killing stuff.



Or the desperate with no other option. Which is getting more and more likely for you...



Zerith said:


> Alexander is a Glass Bolder, not a cannon, a bolder, mainly because there is only one, practical, way to stop him once he gets going XD




A boulder only in words, though he is definitely glass.



> Also, even if he dose 'die' expect him to comeback latter: he is a PC with a background that almost demands he will, sooner or latter, be revived; all be it somthing like a IC week/month would need to pass before he could be back in the RP (body retrived, sent back to his home, him revived, and than he would have to come back for revenge!)




HM made the comment (quite some time ago, I'll admit) that Raise Dead is a possibility for anyone who falls (Fallon). So you didn't need the contrived 'family connections' for it anyway. Of course, if the Krenshars (or Gnolls) eat you, there won't be anything to Raise.


----------



## jackslate45

Oh comon.  We all know Fallon is secretly a level 20th cleric/20 wizard who can cast any spell in game.

I guess that makes him a god?


----------



## Zerith

Raven's river is unarguably an Arcane Mecca; it produces Iron golems.
To make an Iron golem the caster needs to be 16th level, meanwhile clone can be used by a level 15 Caster, or a level 17 one can just use a wish to remake his body (and I don't think having one mage above lowest possible level needed to produce Iron golems would be odd 
in short, unless something gos Far out of its way to keep Alexander dead, forever, plot wise there is literally nothing keeping him from reviving almost indefinitely unless something strikes at the center of the five kingdoms.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Zerith said:


> Raven's river is unarguably an Arcane Mecca; it produces Iron golems.
> To make an Iron golem the caster needs to be 16th level, meanwhile clone can be used by a level 15 Caster, or a level 17 one can just use a wish to remake his body (and I don't think having one mage above lowest possible level needed to produce Iron golems would be odd
> in short, unless something gos Far out of its way to keep Alexander dead, forever, plot wise there is literally nothing keeping him from reviving almost indefinitely unless something strikes at the center of the five kingdoms.




Funny you should mention all this stuff as possible for Alexander, but not possible for his three older brothers. 

Do you go to this level of trouble for every character you play? Because sometimes you really just need to let a character die.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I agree.  Playing a character 'knowing' that it will never truly die seems to remove the ability to put the character in situations where he has a real risk of not coming back from.


----------



## jackslate45

While people do get attached to characters easily, one should allow a character to die.  I almost had my druid killed in a single hit from a Raging Ogre in Hook Mountain Massacre, and was on the ground bleeding out while the rest of the party fought it off.

Only because I stacked HP and the natural 20 that I rolled on a saving throw allowed me to survive.  I was ready to call it in.


----------



## Zerith

Three

Three!?!

He only ever had one!
[He had two sisters, one died during child birth (I'm assuming that  means natural causes and thus cannot revival) and the other is still  alive, all be it no longer as a Ravensworth]


And... No, not rely, Alexander is, reativly speaking, a throw away  character: he is easy to kill off by my standards given the circumstance  

... Ok, that was a lie. that Raven's River has ready access to 16th  level arcane casters, and thus cloning, is an after thought that I'm now  abusing with the "Nuu! I Do' whana!" stick ^^;
[Also there are ways to avoid letting someone rise under any  circomstance:  the stupidest, yet most cirten way of doing this is to  repetitively rise and slay them until there is nothing left to rise  again(if the subject is just THAT stupid), or you can trap the soul, and  then there is a much sneakier way to do it that I shall old onto.]

and I'm use to purly text based RPs: Normally I can't just go "whoo, he  place makes iron golems, and wizards can use any given arcane spell,  more or less, so they can use this revival spell on him! whooo!" normally  Golem maker just means "alright, they might, not will be, might, also  be expert enchanters..." and that was that. but now I can rule monkey  things about 

Also I don't feel right just letting a character that was, apparently, prophesied about just die off in encounter #1
Normally I don't mind my characters getting thrown through hell, or geting killed off if their fighting something 'worthy'
(in pure  text RPs you rarely see PC getting truly beat up; you do, how ever, see  the NPCs acting like pure red shirts and the PCs running up swordy: very  well detailed, but the big Brut mini-bose creeps just gets ham-stringed and generally  taken light of... apparently when a part of 7 fights a small horde of orcs and ogres, the only one who gets hurt beyond boozes is the half wyvern... that said I would not let my Half Wyvern die to just an orke, maybe a single ogre, but never a single orc: Zuak eats orcs, their livers are like candy to him: to much information?)

Also even if we know he can, plote wise, comeback forever, he knows its cutting into his life force every time, its not like he can just go "I'm immortal, I'm going to just were them down by charging headlong every time!"

I R rambling again aren't I?


----------



## Dragonwriter

Zerith said:


> Three
> 
> Three!?!
> 
> He only ever had one!
> [He had two sisters, one died during child birth (I'm assuming that  means natural causes and thus cannot revival) and the other is still  alive, all be it no longer as a Ravensworth]




Point still stands, regardless of how many male siblings he had.



> And... No, not rely, Alexander is, reativly speaking, a throw away  character: he is easy to kill off by my standards given the circumstance
> 
> ... Ok, that was a lie. that Raven's River has ready access to 16th  level arcane casters, and thus cloning, is an after thought that I'm now  abusing with the "Nuu! I Do' whana!" stick ^^;
> [Also there are ways to avoid letting someone rise under any  circomstance:  the stupidest, yet most cirten way of doing this is to  repetitively rise and slay them until there is nothing left to rise  again(if the subject is just THAT stupid), or you can trap the soul, and  then there is a much sneakier way to do it that I shall old onto.]




There are a variety of ways to keep you from being able to be raised. Anything having to do with Trap the Soul or a handful of creatures can do the job (the Nabassu in FC1 is well-suited to this - as my Saturday game can attest thanks to their recent near TPK from one {4 of 6 characters killed}).



> and I'm use to purly text based RPs: Normally I can't just go "whoo, he  place makes iron golems, and wizards can use any given arcane spell,  more or less, so they can use this revival spell on him! whooo!" normally  Golem maker just means "alright, they might, not will be, might, also  be expert enchanters..." and that was that. but now I can rule monkey  things about




Be very careful with such lines of thought... Your rules-monkeying can easily lead to trouble. Anything you can do, the DM can do better.



> Also I don't feel right just letting a character that was, apparently, prophesied about just die off in encounter #1
> Normally I don't mind my characters getting thrown through hell, or geting killed off if their fighting something 'worthy'




While I agree (in certain cases) on not liking "stupid/pointless deaths", sometimes it happens. Bad luck can and will strike.

And it wouldn't be the first time a Prophecy got thrown off. One of my quibbles with prophecy and time travel is how you never know if the prophecy or time travel actually causes the event in question, or if (on the other hand) it negates the event in question and therefore makes you question the veracity and accuracy of said prophecy.
A perfect example of the time travel conundrum is The Terminator.



> Also even if we know he can, plote wise, comeback forever, he knows its cutting into his life force every time, its not like he can just go "I'm immortal, I'm going to just were them down by charging headlong every time!"




The way you describe it and carry on about it makes it certainly seem your opinion is just that. To me, at least. And (again, IMO) it sounds a bit like gloating.


----------



## Axel

Zerith said:


> Blah blah blah...
> 
> I R rambling again aren't I?




Yup.  

I read Alexander's background as being heavily "plot armoured".  AC: +infinity, cost: 2 hours of RL time, ACP: 0.

Nothing wrong with prophecy characters dieing either, btw.  Prohpecies can be (and are) wrong.  The line between prophet and crack-pot is very, very thin.


----------



## Zerith

“Bwah haha ha!” it’s a line I like to use then gloating :3
But as for him being imposable to practically kill, he is hard to kill off, for good, as any prince or king that takes the field but has a high level caster ‘at home’ able to revive an other character without a full, or even any, body left. Very hard without taking preemptive measures, but it is also not imposable.
[Arguably he is harder to take out then a king: he is much less valuable in every sense of the word, so it’s not as worth the investment to take him out as other nobles who may take the field]

This said it could actually be seen as a downside, given that Alexander-Senior is a paranoid loon, Alexander likely has a clone, maybe even a few, awaiting his death: meaning he could be taken out of the plot for IC weeks while ‘lesser’ characters can be revived and returned to the battle/RP in half an IC day. Mean while an Intern character would have to be used,
[As for why Alexander’s elder brother was not revived, it was not for lake of trying, it was because it could not be done.]

As for Alexander getting whacked for good: if that is the case, fine I'll go screw ball for a weak or two(think back to before I settled on Alex ^_^) and then make another character that is not loaded down with randomness, :3
[I would consider making a Lycane character who has been with the Gnolls, but that means ECL 6]
One of the considerations here is: I'm worried that HM made a plot that used Alex as a central figure (humans able to speak Gnollish seem to be in short supply) and if he got whack then some, likely good work, just got thrashed to hell

Also, it took more then 2 hours: I'm very, very slow


----------



## Axel

He's not dead yet!!  Just pray that the krenshar doesn't coupe-de-grace....


----------



## HolyMan

There's an idea 

*Note:* Everything is going to HM's plan (which doesn't involve death) though it is really only an outline as most players seem to enjoy ruining hard laid plans.

HM


----------



## Zerith

I only try to ruin plans, if well, I feal like it! ... or don't feel like going along with them, mainly the latter, I'm lazy like that ^^;


----------



## Dragonwriter

ghostcat said:


> "I know what your thinking, with the two fighters out the way we might be able to overpower the rest. So; was I lying when I told Desnor I was out of spells or can I conjurer more missiles. You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"




Curses! I've got to spread before I can XP you for that one!

Could someone cover me? Trinham Eastwood is just too good to pass up!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Done!!


----------



## HolyMan

[sblock=Zerith] Your comment about being armed. Are you asking if you are armed while on the bridge? If so the answer is no you have no weapon and no spell slots open.

Waiting to see what Alex does btw.[/sblock]


----------



## Herobizkit

Just a reminder that my character is complete and good to go.


----------



## Zerith

But if Alex managed to kill one he could be like, I don't know, level 7 by now!
But in relayish news: I think HM is holding off on tossing Tio into the story until we either get to the town or at lest get nearer to it.
Also, am I the only one who thinks it's funny that we have three light melee classes in a party of 3?

One berserker and we are So dead


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry HB I will get you into the game at town. You could be RPing there (and thus gaining XP) awaiting the others.

Will work Tio in tonight.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: Great!  But, um... which town?  Where is the PC "starting area"?  Are we at war now, preparing for it, or dealing with the aftermath?  What are the PCs supposed to be doing in said area?


----------



## HolyMan

Well the Starting Area is based on the character in question.

Let's see some facts for your character.

The war (that hasn't happened yet) is going to be bad for business so a group of merchants have sent a group to Rem to make sure that the ore they mine and send south will not be stopped due to the war.

Rem is a small (100+ people) hamlet set between a couple mountains and is of no significant strategic value. But the merchants are scared that most of the miners will be drafted and the production will then slow.

Your job in all this is valet/gofer to some of the negotiators (thinking a group of priest?). So you usually have your days free while they are in talks. Your nights are busy waiting on them or preforming one task or another.

You have been in town only a couple days. So when I introduce your character he will be out sight seeing an end of town he hasn't visited yet as he has free time.

Going to put in your opening now. Let me know if you wish any changes to the above.

HM


----------



## Axel

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]:  Quick query re: distance between Alden and the krenshar standing over Alexander's body.  Is it 60' or less to go?  If so...chaaaarge! in a fit of heroism.  Otherwise it may be a errr...slower advance.    Will leave my RP post as a WIP until you can confirm.


----------



## HolyMan

You are within charge range - and the gnolls got your back. 

HM


----------



## Axel

Probably just as well....its easy to "forget" how incompetent level 1 characters are in melee.


----------



## Zerith

I think Alexander is going to be pissed when he wakes up twice over XD


----------



## Axel

Ha!  You assume Alden will wake Alexander.  What if he robs you and leaves you for dead eh?  There is no "good" component to his alignment...


----------



## Zerith

I only said he would e pissed when he wakes, I have not said at who yet,  and yes, rob from a noble man who is a mage, and Alexander tends to be  Highly vengeful. and their is no evil component so Alben can't kill Alex  to prevent said thirst of vengeance. And even if he could, Scrying is  so helpful. I wonder what his lunatic father would do?

And then there are the Gnolls, and he is a prophesied figure to them.
Yes, robe him in front of seven of them when any given one of them could beat Alden to a pulp


----------



## Axel

Haha...there is no guarantee both characters won't end up in the cooking pot at this rate.    I need a flank damnit!  Level 1 rogues are terrible at 1-on-1 combat...


----------



## HolyMan

Should only take one hit. But then again it should take only one hit to take out Alden. 

So wonder if the three attacks coming up will all miss? I did just roll back to back 20's with the EnWorld Die roller in another game so I am out of those for the month. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

How do you figure? Alden must first hit it and then do 6 damage: he has to hit it at full 1d6; meaning assuming he hits he needs a hard 6 or a critical with at lest averageish damage: his odds are not good to do either.
and giving that he just got a comical miss... Yesh ^^;


----------



## HolyMan

He is due a good hit after all the misses. Although he did pass the Will save, hmmm...

Was that his good roll for this combat I wonder. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

Two things:

One: He must get two good roles.
Two: Its not us the players who get owed a good roll, its the 'dice' that is owed a good roll.

Its the printable of rolling out all the 1s from dice. Dos not matter who rolls them the odds the of what is due changes on the dice, not the player (unless the player knows how to roll what they want of cores)

Lets say Player A rolls the ones out of three dice. the odds are exceedingly low that any of those dice will roll a 1 again regardless of it being Player A, B, C, D, or even the GM who rolls it. and we must remember, we are sharing our dice with what, thousands of other players any given minute? ;


----------



## Axel

Fighting defensively and praying for luck is Alden's only hope without one of the Gnolls stepping in to give a flank.  He does +1d6 damage fighting defensively (Deadly Defence Feat) and winds up with an AC of 16.  Not high...but enough for the claws to miss more often than not.  Essentially, he needs 2 hits (on a 17 or 18, can't remember the Krenshar's AC) or 1 crit (given the difficulty of a hit a crit is very unlikely) to settle the job. 

Given 2 hits will finish him in all probability (or 1 hit from the bite) his odds are not good!  Still...I've seen stranger things happen in my RP "career".  It may also be part of the story...  Otherwise, oh well.  He isn't the first and won't be the last character of mine to wind up face down on a muddy road to nowhere.


----------



## Herobizkit

You guys talk a lot of math for role-players.


----------



## HolyMan

That's because they are roll players.

And the dice roller has given out good rolls this week I got a 20 to hit and a 20 to confirm this week. Just lucky for you it was in another game. 

HM


----------



## Zerith

this is my first game of DnD
I'm still kinda wanting to power-game the hell out of it :3


----------



## Axel

Herobizkit said:


> You guys talk a lot of math for role-players.




I can't help it.  I'm an engineer.  Maths is in my blood.

*whispers quietly*  I see maths everywhere!


----------



## Zerith

Say, since I did hurt it and I survived the battle, do I get any EXP from the Gnolls killing it?


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## HolyMan

We don't gets XP for killing things around here. If that were the case you would not be level 2 right now. 

HM


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## Zerith

Well, I thought it was worth a try to get a lil extra


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## Zerith

I don't like Double posting but I think I need to >_<

HB, How did Tio attempt to heal Alexander? going though the steps of it can help us post, expectantly at this juncture were I can only describe how Alexander is lying down on the ground. But also becuse there are some details about him, that depending on how he was treated, might have been unvieled. (nothing game changing, just details) and if it is time to unveil them I think that I should know :/


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## Herobizkit

... I used the Heal skill untrained.  All I'm attempting to do is stabilize your characters (stop them from losing more HP).  I'm afraid you won't see the light of day for some time. :X


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## Zerith

Not why, nor to what end, How.
Did he rip up his own shirt for bandages? did he have something else for them? did he rip up Alexander's or Alden's? did he remove any clothing from the wounded areas before treatment? something else? Etc

The devil is in the details man >_<


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## Herobizkit

Yup, details I've asked the DM to provide.  I don't know what's in the area, hence "whatever is available".


----------



## jackslate45

HM, is there any chance I can write Magic Weapon (from Cedric's spell book) into mine before he leaves?  If not, thats fine.


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## Zerith

The day has came, so please take a minute and let us step back in remembrance.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, Mals actions were a bit much, but hey, he's got Bluff ranks and wants to use them!  Plus, his recent internship under Emma has him thinking like her more and more.  Perhaps as part of his increased powers, her mischievousness also comes along.

Couldn't pass the chance up for a little fun


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## HolyMan

Glad you didn't. I just read the post and it was a great.

HM


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## HolyMan

Finishing up XP and writing some advancing posts. I don't wish to post anything yet in an hour or two I will.

But since I see Axel on I wish to say...

*CONGRATS on reaching LvL 2*

Couldn't hold it in till I posted XP. 

HM


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## HolyMan

*Experience May 16th - May 31st*



		Code:
	

Player                         XP
Fangor the Fierce             645
ghostcat                      850
jackslate45                   405
Dragonwriter                  875
Zerith                        240
Herobizkit                    175
Axel                          250

And the* CONGRATS* is still in effect please post your lvl ups when you are ready. If you are thinking of a level in cleric perhaps a little RP talk with the Padre could bring about the fluff needed to explain Alden's new calling.

HM


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## Axel

Huzzah! Level 2!!! 

Cleric is an interesting option given recent happenings. Still, I think I will take another rogue level for the time being. 90% of level 1 was spent being a rogue, so 'tis only fair really. Talking with those of a religious persuasion may encourage him down "that path", just not as a cleric (Wis10 = embarassing and terrible cleric...sorry for the metagaming on that point).  Level 3 may be appropriate as a "divine" level, or something different.

In a not entirely unrelated topic, its good to be alive! 

Level 2:  +1 rogue level (now Rogue 2)
+1 BAB (now BAB+1)
+1 to Reflex save (now Reflex +3)
New class ability:  Evasion.
If a successful reflex save is made against an attack that would normally do half damage on a successful save, instead take no damage.  Only usable if wearing light or no armour.  Does not apply if helpless (e.g. unconscious or paralysed).
Skills:  12 new points
Class skills:  +1 to Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Gather Information, Knowledge [Local], Spot (total 10 points)
Cross-class skills:  +1 to Ride (total 12 points)
New HP: 4 (yay for double digits!)


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## HolyMan

Make sure you link the roll into your RG spot. Best you roll HP in that post from here on out.

Level up looks good and is approved.

And I am glad you are alive as well. 

HM


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## Dragonwriter

Axel said:


> In a not entirely unrelated topic, its good to be alive!




Eh, you had it easy. A pack of krenshars is more level-appropriate than a hydra. 

(I know, I can be a real pitbull sometimes. )


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## HolyMan

Pitbull in as never let go. Yes that you are.

Any guess to my next monstrous encounter for your group DW??

*Here's a hint:* It has a breath weapon. 

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce

we already faced that foe (HADEN) and won.  NEXT!


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## HolyMan

I said "monstrous" encounter not NPC.

Speaking of... does Malaroc keep the gauntlet and take it with him?

HM


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Pitbull in as never let go. Yes that you are.




Stubbornness is a family trait for me. 
(Really, I've been teasing family members about one-time things for _years_.)



> Any guess to my next monstrous encounter for your group DW??
> 
> *Here's a hint:* It has a breath weapon.
> 
> HM






Fangor the Fierce said:


> we already faced that foe (HADEN) and won.  NEXT!




Good one Fangor!


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## Fangor the Fierce

Haden WAS monstrous!  Kicked kids, spat on elderly, even heard he once drooled in a bowl of soup and gave it to a blind man!  If that's not monstrous, then I don't know WHAT is!

Ok, kidding aside - Yeah, I would take the dragon gauntlet if it's of good quality (MW).  Otherwise, burn it with the rest of the leftover stuff.


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## HolyMan

My job isn't to beat you btw.

 I won too because I enjoyed the battle very much on this end as well. It led to some interesting character developments I will get to enact on later. I got to use a three round spell combo (two of which were domain spells I didn't even think he would get to use during the fight) and I got a nice line up for that dragon breath attack.

I got to see FtF and ghostcat RP there lvl ups also, always fun.

Only thing that didn't happen and I wish did was Aver getting into hand to hand and his curse boots taking effect.  Ah well can't have everything.

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce

Lol, cursed boots not taking affect in close combat... makes me wonder if he would have busted out into a River Dance solo, complete with eerie background music from nowhere!

Now THAT would have been a CURSE!!!  Us watching him dance?!?!?!?  The agony!!!


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> OCC: Will give you all another 24 hours to respond to Trinham before I advance the thread.




HM, I'm pretty sure no one else in the current group is proficient with martial weapons. Except maybe Tira, as I believe she was originally set up as a Ranger before becoming an NPC.

So since there's no point in any competing bids, there's nothing stopping you from moving the thread along now.


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## HolyMan

Actually Sunking and I were looking at a psionist and making most wild elves psionist and a reason they left the Treylor lands. But now she is a ranger.

Even though only one person in the group can use the item that shouldn't mean we skip the opportunity for a little RP.

HM


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Actually Sunking and I were looking at a psionist and making most wild elves psionist and a reason they left the Treylor lands. But now she is a ranger.




Ugh, psionics... Please don't open that can of worms. It's just one more rule system in a long line of extra rules systems. There are far easier ways to distinguish cultures from one another.



> Even though only one person in the group can use the item that shouldn't mean we skip the opportunity for a little RP.
> 
> HM




So people can post just to say "I don't care/can't use it/whatever, so take it" ? 
I'm more in the less-is-more/quality-not-quantity (both of posts and words) camp of posting. And I don't believe in making simple junk posts like that, when avoidable.


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## Zerith

talking about items, dos Alexander still have his and rapier or was it left behind?
He checked for it but he did not seem to find out if he had it


----------



## HolyMan

Yes all your gear is with you. 

Except whatever was in Alden's saddlebags, sorry.

HM


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## Zerith

... likely the potions then >_<


----------



## HolyMan

Correct Alex has his - Alden does not. Could go back though.

HM


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## HolyMan

[sblock=OOC]Speaking of Identify, will Ern have time to pick up spells in Tharivol?   Most of my wealth is going to buying and researching spells[/sblock]

First item is Tharivol is an NPC and Tirol is the elven city. Sorry they both start with "T" 

Yes you will be able to purchase spells and such - need a utility mage as Trinham seems to have the combat part. 

Just going to have to wait to see if you aren't thrown in jail and left to rot first.

Think I just need FtF to post up he is ready for advancing and we are set. So be thinking of marching order or how you wish to go about getting to the city.

HM


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## HolyMan

In other news there will be an knew OOC up at the end of the month as we are quickly approaching Year 3 for Off to War. 

HM


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## jackslate45

HM, you under estimate Ernestine Thankirk.  She has gotten out of much worse. /bluff

EDIT: ya, hoping to buy at least 1 level 2 and a couple level 1's  Identify for sure.

Double Edit: Grats on year 3!


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## HolyMan

Thanks jackslate45 been great these past two years looking forward to Year 3.

But I  never thought I would need to bump this thread. 

Let me know whenever you are having trouble with a post of mine. i.e don't understand/was hoping for something different.

TCtCM - left you guys open for RP but will move the thread along if you wish.

XP in 3 days and will push both games along then if not before.

HM


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## HolyMan

Hey ghostcat anytime you wish to discuss what you wish for Trinham's "growth" please let me know.

He has been in a few rough spots (the wolves from way back, the ettercap, etc.) I am wondering when he will become more confidante in his abilities and such.

Also I think Trinham would speak up (this is just me he is your character) I see him as starting to suggest something then deciding that "That might not work, never mind, sorry."

I see him as the guy who wants to help out whenever, wherever but checks himself because of his lack of faith in his own abilities still.

Could just be me though.

HM


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## Axel

HolyMan said:


> TCtCM - left you guys open for RP but will move the thread along if you wish.




For my $0.02, am waiting for [MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION].  If there's nothing from him tomorrow I'll have Alden wander off and chat up the bar girl.  Nothing wrong with "harmless" side-quests, right?


----------



## HolyMan

Not at all HB is usually very heavy into RP and on everyday so I was thinking you all would post up with np.

Probably that RL monster. TCtCM is set to be pushed forward after tomorrows XP are given out. So side quest might be put on hold (but could be started).

HM


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## HolyMan

*Experience June 1st - June 15th*



		Code:
	

Player                 XP
Axel                   180
Herobizkit             150
Zerith                 220
ghostcat               400
Fangor the Fierce      340
Dragonwriter           400
jackslate45            285


Advancing threads then off to bed...

HM


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## Zerith

so... why is Alex the only one with a single digit of exp?
"2.020"


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## HolyMan

The gnoll afterlife sucks XP from characters didn't you know??

My opps hit the wrong key as usual.

HM


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## Zerith

But Alex did not die! ;

and I just could not resist making a jab :3


----------



## HolyMan

Been busy (RL) everyone sorry for the delay. Will give FtF till tomorrow to post up.

If he can't I will roll for him and then advance the thread.

HM


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## Zerith

Axel, if you've ever seen mister burns from the Simpsons you've seen someone tent their hands (also, it would seem I’ve been caling the hand jester by the wrong name ; )
  [If you have not seen mister Burns and have not goodled him yet: the palms are separated, the tips of the fingers and thumbs touching their counter parts, the fingers fully extended and pointed upwards; this hand jester is commonly held just below the chin or in front of the face, flaunted; interrogators use this hand jester a lot.]


  Also, my mistake aside, Alex’s hands ARE NOT below the table. Role playing 101, Unless a Player says their character did something _other players_ CANNOT say the character did: I’ve made no mention of Alexander’s hands ever being below the table, admittedly I’ve not been animating him as much as I could or should, but still, this does not give you the privilege to make him do things (even more so when he is posturing and your adjusting his poster by dictating were his hands are)
  I should have noted his elbows were on the table but still, as a rule of thumb, unless someone who is making a hand jester says their hands are below a table, or otherwise out of sight (where is pointless to bother making a hand jesters in the first place) they’re in plain sight; in plain sight is not hidden below the table or in pockets. And again, I never said anything about pockets, nor Alexander pouting his hands in them.

I know you did not exactly say “Alexander did X” but you heavily impaled it and if this assumption of yours is built on it will simply gut Alexander’s character, he is a noble, and odd one yes, but still a noble.
Sorry if I came off harsh, but it’s a pet peeve of min; I loathe it when someone makes my character do, or implies that they did, something they would not do. the idea I was trying to get off, and that he was, is that he is scheming something up and briefly letting a 'valuable' piece of information he did not have work into his plans.
This is not remotely similar to any thing Alden seems to think; and before you use the mumbling card, simply looking at a girl and lusting at her with creepy eyes, is also not remotely the same; same action, but no sane person would say their at all similar in practice.


----------



## Axel

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION]
My apologies for painting your character into a corner.  You are entirely correct in that you haven't described what Alexander is doing with his hands.  For some reason, my mental image of the scene in the bar has Alexander sitting with his hands in his lap except for when he takes a drink.

Since Alden's mental process is entirely irrelevant to the plot development, only tangentially relevant to character development and bordering on unnecessarily rude in any case, with HM's permission I'll delete the offending paragraph.


----------



## HolyMan

NP Axel it does get confusing sometimes in pbp. Your are allowed to assume some actions for NPCs but not PCs. Glad you tried for a little character development it will be hit and miss till we play these characters awhile.

HM


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## Axel

Revised.  Feel free to proceed with whatever nefarious schemes you are all devising.  I will continue trying to sound drunk while writing.


----------



## jackslate45

HM, can you do a Know Nobles roll for me once we meet your surprise?  Or did you want me to roll it after the meeting?

and I have to say this has to be the most I have ever used Know Nobles...


----------



## Zerith

Um, Hero? your character knows Ritter and Sef, he dose not need to size them up he (from what I know) came to rem with them 

And I get that Alex is talking a lot, but I don't see how he is doing something like self worship; at most he is being narcissistic, but even then we're talking at the end of his monolog, not from start to finish, sure he is self important, btu that is a given with nobles. 

Also, its a standing rule in the RP, most for that matter, that named NPCs are not to be controlled by players: Ritter and Sef have name tags and ain't acting, too much, like red shirts. I'm not saying that's not how their going to react, only that it is not your, or my, call.


----------



## Axel

I wouldn't get too hung up on it Zerith.  I've known many people for years and am still surprised by their reaction to ummm.....confronting situation.  These are also fairly intelligent people (that I know in RL).  Ritter and Sef don't strike me as much above average intelligence.  Wisdom, maybe, but not Intelligence.  

Alexander's actions (well, words, really) do approach self love.  At least by my interpretation.  He is "clearly" a very superficial and shallow person (not meant insultingly...he just doesn't seem to give 2 brass buttons about other people, which is fine).  He is a pretty confronting and intimidating character, who grates against my RL personality.  If I met him in the real world (magic stuff not withstanding) I couldn't help but dislike him.  I am trying not to let this influence my game play, but it may come through.  If it does, I apologise in advance.

I can almost guarantee though, that he will be described in derogatory terms by Alden at some stage.  Alden has no love for the big freaky fella, and no reason to trust him.  If and when I do write something like that, rest assured I am not attempting to "puppet" your PC...just writing my character's impression of events.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience June 16th - June 30th*



		Code:
	

Player                      XP
ghostcat                   425
Fangor the Fierce          220
jackslate45                300
Dragonwriter               650
Zerith                     195
Axel                       195
Herobizkit                 105

Well it has been another great year for this game. I finally am about to get to the "meat" of the story in Key to Victory (do you know how long I have been waiting to do this LOL). In To Con the Con-man I am going to get you all on track with the adventure name,  soon as you meet the con-man. 

I will be setting up a new OOC tomorrow morning and will be going through the long process of finding all the questions and my answers in this and the other OOC for linking. Mostly rules and things I have let into the game. Just seems it is getting large and I need to be able to keep track.

*A big thanks to all of you for helping make this a great game.
*
I hope you are having as much fun as I am.

HM


----------



## Axel

Grrr....HM posted while I was reading/writing...  Congratulations on completing a second year.  How many adventure paths have you run now?

Damnit the suspense of how you're going to resolve the dice-off in TCtCM is killing me...


----------



## HolyMan

What?? 

It is resolved I used your rolls to push the game ahead. Just need to know what the guardsman were going to do. Alex intimidated and diplomacy'ed them into not starting a bar fight.

And Alden learned all there is to know about Rem (which is not much - typical village).

And Tio got nothing in the skills department but a little Divine Inspiration to try and help.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

AP's ran and completed = Zero ( I am currently running counting Off to War as an AP seven and about to start an eighth). 

Adventures/modules run to completion? Twelve with another one due to end (giving me thirteen yikes ) soon. 

And in that time I have had more than a few games peter out.

 - Hey DW remember the Drow of the Underdark game where you had a four armed totem warrior?? 

All and all since I have no RL game I have been running and learning a lot these past three years.

Reminds me I need a few players to hop into my Age of Worms AP (cleric or rogue) Pathfinder converted - you up for another game Axel?

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> And in that time I have had more than a few games peter out.




Haven't we all? 



> Hey DW remember the Drow of the Underdark game where you had a four armed totem warrior??




Yep. I've still got that build sitting around and I want to run it properly one day... Sadly, not many folks seem to use both Tome of Battle AND Magic of Incarnum... The latter is just too obscure.


----------



## Axel

HolyMan said:


> What??
> 
> It is resolved I used your rolls to push the game ahead. Just need to know what the guardsman were going to do. Alex intimidated and diplomacy'ed them into not starting a bar fight.
> 
> And Alden learned all there is to know about Rem (which is not much - typical village).
> 
> And Tio got nothing in the skills department but a little Divine Inspiration to try and help.
> 
> HM




Buggeration...I have a slow computer AND a slow internet connection.  Reading now...  All forgiven (on my part) for the playing of Alden.  

My current RL game is on 3 month hiatus due to large number of people (including the DM) on holidays.  I miss being a righteous cleric and smiting good-doe...errr...evil doers.  Yes, smiting evil doers...  So, I'd be happy to take a look at your Age of Worms game with a view to taking on the cleric role.  Any chance you could PM me the important links?


----------



## Zerith

Too bad Alexander can't replace his hit bonus with his Diplo bonus >_>

Any ways, I don't have any thing to add until there is something in front of Alex now, unless you guys want a paragraph or two of just Alexander walking


----------



## HolyMan

No I wish a heads up as to what you will do when you meet the half-elf. WHat if he is Tharivol what will you tell him? What if he isn't there can't be many half-elves in the world (as far as Alex knows) maybe he knows Tharivol.

Remember the prophecy and what Scar Face told you.


HM


----------



## Axel

For what it's worth, I think one of the party should not meet the half elf.  That way, if we need to do anything dodgy (in the black to dark grey area of the law) later on, plausible deniability can be maintained.


----------



## HolyMan

Is that something Alden would come with??

Best to discuss that and all other topics in the new OOC ---

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/308120-off-war-always-recruiting-occ-year-3-a.html

Please join me there and we will continue ever onward.

HM


----------

