# Suicide Squad - Comic-Con First Look [HD]



## trappedslider (Jul 13, 2015)

[video=youtube;PLLQK9la6Go]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLLQK9la6Go[/video]

Due to the DCAU, I keep expecting Waller to be CCH Pounder. It looks interesting to say the least.


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## Morrus (Jul 13, 2015)

This is gonna be good.


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## Morrus (Jul 14, 2015)

This is interesting.  Yesterday WB was saying this:

We have no plans currently to release the Suicide Squad footage that leaked from Hall H on Saturday. It’s unfortunate and ultimately damaging that one individual broke a long-standing trust we have enjoyed with our fans at the convention by posting early material, which, at this point, was not intended for a wider audience. We are still in production on Suicide Squad, and will have a big campaign launch in the future. Our presentation yesterday was designed to be experienced in that room, on those big screens!

And today they launched the above trailer, saying this:

Warner Bros. Pictures and our anti-piracy team have worked tirelessly over the last 48 hours to contain the Suicide Squad footage that was pirated from Hall H on Saturday. We have been unable to achieve that goal. Today we will release the same footage that has been illegally circulating on the web, in the form it was created and high quality with which it was intended to be enjoyed. We regret this decision as it was our intention to keep the footage as a unique experience for the Comic Con crowd, but we cannot continue to allow the film to be represented by the poor quality of the pirated footage stolen from our presentation.


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## Tonguez (Jul 14, 2015)

Its good to see that Joker has more than just a behind the bars cameo role. That being said lets hope Harley and Joker don't end up hogging the limelight and relegating the rest of the team to also-rans.

Good to see a slightly older, 'stockier' Waller than we see in Arrow and GL.

and is Enchantress being played with Magic? thats going to be interesting


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## MechaPilot (Jul 14, 2015)

Morrus said:


> This is interesting.  Yesterday WB was saying this:
> 
> We have no plans currently to release the Suicide Squad footage that leaked from Hall H on Saturday. It’s unfortunate and ultimately damaging that one individual broke a long-standing trust we have enjoyed with our fans at the convention by posting early material, which, at this point, was not intended for a wider audience. We are still in production on Suicide Squad, and will have a big campaign launch in the future. Our presentation yesterday was designed to be experienced in that room, on those big screens!




That quote from them is interesting to me, particularly the "long-standing trust" part.  Do they mean the same "long-standing trust" that leaked the BvS teaser trailer?  The "long-standing" trust that leaked the video of Joker and Harley arguing and the trucker approaching and getting shot?  Or do they mean the "long-standing trust" of any of the other unsanctioned leaks that have occurred since last year's comic con?


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## Morrus (Jul 14, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> That quote from them is interesting to me, particularly the "long-standing trust" part.  Do they mean the same "long-standing trust" that leaked the BvS teaser trailer?  The "long-standing" trust that leaked the video of Joker and Harley arguing and the trucker approaching and getting shot?  Or do they mean the "long-standing trust" of any of the other unsanctioned leaks that have occurred since last year's comic con?




I think they mean the long standing trust which has leaked every single bit of footage shown at Comic Con by anybody ever since the mobile phone got a camera. Imagining it won't happen is naive of them.


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## Bullgrit (Jul 14, 2015)

I've known The Joker was an evil man. But seeing that last scene in the trailer when he says, "Oh, I'm not gonna kill ya. I'm just gonna hurtcha really, really bad" . . . makes me respect The Punisher much more than I do Batman.

Bullgrit


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## Morrus (Jul 14, 2015)

Bullgrit said:


> I've known The Joker was an evil man. But seeing that last scene in the trailer when he says, "Oh, I'm not gonna kill ya. I'm just gonna hurtcha really, really bad" . . . makes me respect The Punisher much more than I do Batman.




Depending who writes him, he's pretty much *the* most psychotic character in all of fiction.


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## Legatus Legionis (Jul 14, 2015)

.


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## Morrus (Jul 14, 2015)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> Other than The Joker, Harley Quinn and Killer Croc, the rest of the Suicide Squad by looking at the pictures/trailers, I could not name any other characters without first looking up on IMDB who all was to be in it.




Is that not the case with 99.999% of movies you see?  Or is being already familiar with more than three of the characters in a movie a prerequisite?  Did you see _Guardians of the Galaxy?_

I went to see _Interstellar_ and_ Jurassic World_ and couldn't name _any_ of the characters before seeing 'em! I knew one character in _Mad Max_.  Zero from _Ex Machina_.  And I saw _No Country For Old Men_ on TV the other night, and knew none of those characters either. Loved the film, though! 

Discovering characters by watching the thing they're in is a great way to do it!


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## Tonguez (Jul 14, 2015)

Morrus said:


> Discovering characters by watching the thing they're in is a great way to do it!




Well said Morrus

But I do think it would have been good to showcase some of the teams skills - even just a  boomerang throw


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## MechaPilot (Jul 14, 2015)

Tonguez said:


> Well said Morrus
> 
> But I do think it would have been good to showcase some of the teams skills - even just a  boomerang throw




Well, this is just the first trailer for a movie that's about a year away.  And, they did say they intended it for just the fans at Comic Con, who would already have an interest in the film.


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## Ryujin (Jul 18, 2015)

Bullgrit said:


> I've known The Joker was an evil man. But seeing that last scene in the trailer when he says, "Oh, I'm not gonna kill ya. I'm just gonna hurtcha really, really bad" . . . makes me respect The Punisher much more than I do Batman.
> 
> Bullgrit




And that last scene really doesn't have me looking forward to the ultimate result. From what I've seen so far, I'm not a fan on Leto's take on The Joker.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> And that last scene really doesn't have me looking forward to the ultimate result. From what I've seen so far, I'm not a fan on Leto's take on The Joker.




Really?  Because that last scene makes me eager to see more of Leto's Joker.  That last scene makes me think that we might finally see a truly evil, brutal, crazy Joker.  I also want to see how they integrate the comedy aspect with that level of sadistic cruelty, because we really didn't get to see the comedic aspect yet in the trailer.


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## Ryujin (Jul 18, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> Really?  Because that last scene makes me eager to see more of Leto's Joker.  That last scene makes me think that we might finally see a truly evil, brutal, crazy Joker.  I also want to see how they integrate the comedy aspect with that level of sadistic cruelty, because we really didn't get to see the comedic aspect yet in the trailer.




I think we got that from Heath Ledger, though less so the overt comedy.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> I think we got that from Heath Ledger, though less so the overt comedy.




Heath was good.  I feel that all the Jokers that we have had have been on an improving trajectory over time.  Nicholson was better than Romero, Ledger was better than Nicholson, and now we have to wait and see where Leto fits in.  I would even say that Hamil was better than Nicholson (with Ledger better than Hamil), but them Hamil had the unfair advantage of simply having to voice the character; the dirty work of appearance and physical acting was placed on the animators instead.

I will say that I don't think Ledger's Joker was as sadistic as Leto's Joker will be.  Ledger's Joker seemed to use violence to make a point, to execute a plan, and in anger, but he never really seemed like he was violent simply for his own amusement or satisfaction (at least not to me).  It always seemed like he got amusement or satisfaction from the plan, or making the point, and that the violence was really a secondary and trivial part of that outcome.

He also stepped away from the clown aspect of the character, which you alluded to with the less "over comedy" remark.  I'd like to see the clown come back with Leto's Joker, but they need to temper it with the greater brutality and sadism so the clownishness doesn't siphon off the gravitas of the character.


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## Morrus (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> And that last scene really doesn't have me looking forward to the ultimate result. From what I've seen so far, I'm not a fan on Leto's take on The Joker.




I wouldn't bother replying to Bullgrit. He's flounced off yet again. He's not a fan of debate. He won't be returning this time.


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## Morrus (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> And that last scene really doesn't have me looking forward to the ultimate result. From what I've seen so far, I'm not a fan on Leto's take on The Joker.




Tastes differ.  For me, Joker is the ultimate psychopath.  The ultimate evil; way beyond Vader, Darkseid, or whoever is supposed to be super-evil in the Marvel universe.  For me, he's cinema's and comic books' biggest villain.  He needs to make Darth Vader recoil in fear; he needs to make Darkseid cringe.  Because that's his superpower - he's not a genius like Luthor, or strong like [every other villain], and he can't fly.  He's a man.  But he's truly, irredeemably, utterly, psychopathic.  That's why he's scary.


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## Ryujin (Jul 18, 2015)

Morrus said:


> Tastes differ.  For me, Joker is the ultimate psychopath.  The ultimate evil; way beyond Vader, Darkseid, or whoever is supposed to be super-evil in the Marvel universe.  For me, he's cinema's and comic books' biggest villain.  He needs to make Darth Vader recoil in fear; he needs to make Darkseid cringe.  Because that's his superpower - he's not a genius like Luthor, or strong like [every other villain], and he can't fly.  He's a man.  But he's truly, irredeemably, utterly, psychopathic.  That's why he's scary.




I feel the same way. For me that was Ledger's Joker. What I'm seeing so far from Leto's Joker strikes me more as attention whore than psychotic villain. Ledger's portrayal is something that I actually found disturbing. I may be proved wrong when the movie is actually released, but that's my take so far.


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## Morrus (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> I feel the same way. For me that was Ledger's Joker. What I'm seeing so far from Leto's Joker strikes me more as attention whore than psychotic villain. I may be proved wrong when the movie is actually released, but that's my take so far.




You've seen... 12 words. Honestly, this conversation is mildly silly.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> I feel the same way. For me that was Ledger's Joker. What I'm seeing so far from Leto's Joker strikes me more as attention whore than psychotic villain. Ledger's portrayal is something that I actually found disturbing. I may be proved wrong when the movie is actually released, but that's my take so far.




Though I feel differently than you do about Leto's Joker, I will agree on the attention whore bit in one regard: the tattoos.  The tattoos seem sort of attention-whore-ish.  Of course, they also seem somewhat realistic given how significant tattoos are in prison culture, and the fact that the Joker is likely to have some priors.


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## Ryujin (Jul 18, 2015)

Morrus said:


> You've seen... 12 words. Honestly, this conversation is mildly silly.




Twelve words, comments from co-stars, and Twitter posts 

Oh, and comments from the Yonge Street shoot in Toronto, though those were minimal. I work where they were shooting.


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## Ryujin (Jul 18, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> Though I feel differently than you do about Leto's Joker, I will agree on the attention whore bit in one regard: the tattoos.  The tattoos seem sort of attention-whore-ish.  Of course, they also seem somewhat realistic given how significant tattoos are in prison culture, and the fact that the Joker is likely to have some priors.




The tattoo reveal, in Leto's early online posts, were part of what left me cold. I was hoping that they were just an affectation for that particular set of posts, as was hinted at, but it seems that they are a definite part of the characterization. To me, you see, the Joker doesn't care about "prison culture." When your face is scarred like that, you don't really need anything else to say who you are. Also it's been quite some time since my comic book days and undoubtedly there have been quite a few changes, but I don't recall The Joker ever having tattoos.


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## Morrus (Jul 18, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> Though I feel differently than you do about Leto's Joker, I will agree on the attention whore bit in one regard: the tattoos.  The tattoos seem sort of attention-whore-ish.  Of course, they also seem somewhat realistic given how significant tattoos are in prison culture, and the fact that the Joker is likely to have some priors.




Tattoos are pretty mainstream in 2015. Nobody even notices them any more.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> The tattoo reveal, in Leto's early online posts, were part of what left me cold. I was hoping that they were just an affectation for that particular set of posts, as was hinted at, but it seems that they are a definite part of the characterization. To me, you see, the Joker doesn't care about "prison culture." When your face is scarred like that, you don't really need anything else to say who you are. Also it's been quite some time since my comic book days and undoubtedly there have been quite a few changes, but I don't recall The Joker ever having tattoos.




The Joker at one point had a massive oriental dragon tattoo that covered his entire back.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 18, 2015)

Morrus said:


> Tattoos are pretty mainstream in 2015. Nobody even notices them any more.




Yes and no.  You are correct that tattoos in general are mainstream, but face and neck tattoos are generally not.


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## Ryujin (Jul 18, 2015)

Yup, like I said, never saw that.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 18, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Yup, like I said, never saw that.




Neither did I, at least not when I was reading comic books.  However, I saw it referenced when online film talk shows were discussing Leto's Joker's tattoos.


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> Neither did I, at least not when I was reading comic books.  However, I saw it referenced when online film talk shows were discussing Leto's Joker's tattoos.




A quick search shows that image comes from "All Star Batman and Robin, The Boy Wonder", which involved stories that were outside of the main ongoing story arc. The implication is that they aren't exactly canon. No real big deal if this is the way that they want to go, as there have and will be many interpretations along the line, but so far this one isn't ringing my bell.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> To me, you see, the Joker doesn't care about "prison culture."




To address this specific part separately, I have to point out that you appear to be assuming that the Joker was never in prison before becoming the Joker.  If the Joker was a regular but eccentric criminal before whatever caused him to become the Joker happened, then being affected by or caring about prison culture makes some sense.

Also, I have a personal theory that the damaged tattoo is not something the Joker did, but is something that others did to him at some point in his past.  That tattoo's gentle cursive quality doesn't fit in with the rest of the more jagged and angular tattoos on the joker.


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> To address this specific part separately, I have to point out that you appear to be assuming that the Joker was never in prison before becoming the Joker.  If the Joker was a regular but eccentric criminal before whatever caused him to become the Joker happened, then being affected by or caring about prison culture makes some sense.
> 
> Also, I have a personal theory that the damaged tattoo is not something the Joker did, but is something that others did to him at some point in his past.  That tattoo's gentle cursive quality doesn't fit in with the rest of the more jagged and angular tattoos on the joker.




Yes, pretty much. I'm also assuming that The Joker would divorce himself from his life previous to his "rebirth" as much as possible. That was another thing that appealed to me about Ledger's performance; the constant retelling and reinvention of his scar's origin, as he told it to different characters through the movie.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Yes, pretty much. I'm also assuming that The Joker would divorce himself from his life previous to his "rebirth" as much as possible. That was another thing that appealed to me about Ledger's performance; the constant retelling and reinvention of his scar's origin, as he told it to different characters through the movie.




I think Ledger's Joker did that to screw with people, not to distance himself from his past (each telling was dramatically quite good and added to each scene were it occurred though).

Also, I am hoping that the current DCCU is giving some thought as to the origins of their Joker.  One of the things that bothered me about Ledger's Joker was the sort of out-of-thin-air-edness of the character.  The notion that a real and ordinary person can somehow become so twisted and unhinged as to become the Joker is a terrifying concept that Ledger's Joker sidestepped in favor of the nebulous background that allowed for the differing scar stories just to screw with people.


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I think Ledger's Joker did that to screw with people, not to distance himself from his past (each telling was dramatically quite good and added to each scene were it occurred though).
> 
> Also, I am hoping that the current DCCU is giving some thought as to the origins of their Joker.  One of the things that bothered me about Ledger's Joker was the sort of out-of-thin-air-edness of the character.  The notion that a real and ordinary person can somehow become so twisted and unhinged as to become the Joker is a terrifying concept that Ledger's Joker sidestepped in favor of the nebulous background that allowed for the differing scar stories just to screw with people.




And that's part of what I liked about it. Did he consciously do it to mess with people? Did he do it to hide his real origins? Or was it because he really believed each and every new story that he told, because he was just that screwed up? That was all left nebulous and any of the above, or none, could be the truth. In the end we knew that he was damaged goods, but not just how damaged he was.

The fall into a chemical vat as his origin is the most consistent origin story, though there have been others. Apparently in at least one of them he doesn't even remember who he was before he was The Joker. That would be consistent with Ledger's portrayal.


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## Morrus (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I think Ledger's Joker did that to screw with people, not to distance himself from his past (each telling was dramatically quite good and added to each scene were it occurred though).
> 
> Also, I am hoping that the current DCCU is giving some thought as to the origins of their Joker.  One of the things that bothered me about Ledger's Joker was the sort of out-of-thin-air-edness of the character.  The notion that a real and ordinary person can somehow become so twisted and unhinged as to become the Joker is a terrifying concept that Ledger's Joker sidestepped in favor of the nebulous background that allowed for the differing scar stories just to screw with people.




It shouldn't, but it does still amaze me how different peoples' preferences are. For me, Ledger was better because he had no origin. Like Boba Fett, some characters are better the less you know. Not everything has to be explained.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Morrus said:


> It shouldn't, but it does still amaze me how different peoples' preferences are. For me, Ledger was better because he had no origin. Like Boba Fett, some characters are better the less you know. Not everything has to be explained.




Please note that I am not saying that they have to explain his origin to us, I only said that they should be giving thought to it.  If they come up with an origin, even if they don't tell it to us, it gives them a place to start from to keep the character consistent with himself, which is especially valuable if he will appear in more than one film (which I am hopeful will be the case if Leto's Joker turns out as well as I think and hope he will).

I think seeing the origin of Leto's Joker would be interesting, but it's not something I need.  And I really only want it if they can find a way to present it that is just awesome; though I suspect that would require an R or NC-17 film to properly pull it off given exactly how twisted the Joker is (and those ratings make it unlikely that it will happen because of how they restrict the potential audience).


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> The fall into a chemical vat as his origin is the most consistent origin story, though there have been others. Apparently in at least one of them he doesn't even remember who he was before he was The Joker. That would be consistent with Ledger's portrayal.




I'm not sure what the most consistent origin is; there are only two times that I have seen the Joker's origin presented: 1) in the Nicholson/Keaton film, and 2) in this online video about how the Joker is immortal.

Edit: originally had the wrong video.  It is corrected now.


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I'm not sure what the most consistent origin is; there are only two times that I have seen the Joker's origin presented: 1) in the Nicholson/Keaton film, and 2) in this online video about how the Joker is immortal.




The origin as presented in the Keaton Batman is pretty close to the original, going back to the Silver Age comics. I had heard about the immortality thing, specifically that the last two people alive at the end of the universe would be John Constantine and The Joker, but didn't know the source. I put this down to being another bad idea, like "The Death of Superman", meant to drive sales.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> The origin as presented in the Keaton Batman is pretty close to the original, going back to the Silver Age comics. I had heard about the immortality thing, specifically that the last two people alive at the end of the universe would be John Constantine and The Joker, but didn't know the source. I put this down to being another bad idea, like "The Death of Superman", meant to drive sales.




I don't know if I consider it a bad idea or not yet.  I'm still letting it settle in.  I do like the notion that there will always be a Joker, that he cannot be killed, and I think the notion of seeing a Joker in different eras (perhaps the Victorian era Joker was who Jack the Ripper was).

I also think that it doesn't generate sales as much as a non-immortal Joker would.  People flocked to buy the death of Superman comic because they thought he was really dead, not because they thought he was coming back.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Morrus said:


> Like Boba Fett, some characters are better the less you know. Not everything has to be explained.




I am probably going to take some crap for this, but here goes anyway.

I like Star Wars, quite a bit.  I generally prefer Star Trek, but I have a genuine love for both franchises because each one gives me different things: Star Wars essentially gives me fantasy in a sci-fi environment, but Star Trek uses sci-fi to tell morality tales.

With that preface out of the way, I have to say that in my Star Wars fandom I have never really cared for Boba Fett.  Looking back at the original trilogy, he never impressed me with any of the capabilities that he is shown as having, and he never engaged me as a character (plus, for a supposed bad-ass he dies a pretty cheap death in Jedi, and yes I know the Star Wars EU elaborates that he didn't actually die there).  While the prequels added to his characterization, they also didn't do so in a way that engaged me.

I get that a fair number of Star Wars fans like or adore Boba Fett, but I've never seen the allure based on his appearance in either the original trilogy, the prequel trilogy, or all six movies as a whole.


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## trappedslider (Jul 19, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> The origin as presented in the Keaton Batman is pretty close to the original, going back to the Silver Age comics..




I hate to tell you this but the Joker has never had a set in stone origin story. The origin given in the Keaton movie however is the most commonly told one. He's even the trope namer for Multiply choice past. 

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Joker#Origin

 "They've given many origins of the Joker, how he came to be. That doesn't seem to matter—just how he is now. I never intended to give a reason for his appearance. We discussed that and Bill [Finger] and I never wanted to change it at that time. I thought—and he agreed—that it takes away some of the essential mystery."

– Jerry Robinson, the Joker's creator

 "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another ... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"- Joker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(comics)#Origins


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## Tonguez (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I get that a fair number of Star Wars fans like or adore Boba Fett, but I've never seen the allure based on his appearance in either the original trilogy, the prequel trilogy, or all six movies as a whole.




I think that the allure of Boba Fett was more about what he could have been rather than how he was actually presnted in the movies and his stoopid demise in the Sarlacc Pit.

He could have been a major badass, the pale rider, conflicted bounty hunter and last survivor of his kind. He could have been a legend in his own right, but the movies wasted the opportunity. The Sarlaac Pit was just dumb and the background added via Jango was a bit naf.

Boba Fett has become cool because of fan imaginations rather than anything in the movie presentation


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Tonguez said:


> I think that the allure of Boba Fett was more about what he could have been rather than how he was actually presnted in the movies and his stoopid demise in the Sarlacc Pit.
> 
> He could have been a major badass, the pale rider, conflicted bounty hunter and last survivor of his kind. He could have been a legend in his own right, but the movies wasted the opportunity. The Sarlaac Pit was just dumb and the background added via Jango was a bit naf.
> 
> Boba Fett has become cool because of fan imaginations rather than anything in the movie presentation




If I am understanding you properly, he is cool because he is an empty shell that fans can project their imaginations onto (and perhaps because fans may have thought his armor and weapons looked cool as well).  If I am understanding you properly, what makes him any cooler than any of the other empty shell characters in Star Wars?


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## Morrus (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> If I am understanding you properly, he is cool because he is an empty shell that fans can project their imaginations onto (and perhaps because fans may have thought his armor and weapons looked cool as well).  If I am understanding you properly, what makes him any cooler than any of the other empty shell characters in Star Wars?




"Coolness" (though that probably is not the right word) isn't a measurable definable thing, and it's unlikely anybody can explain it. It just is.  For whatever reason, Boba Fett had the right combination of factors; I don't imagine it can be deliberately replicated, or that the film makers had any idea that it would happen.


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

trappedslider said:


> I hate to tell you this but the Joker has never had a set in stone origin story. The origin given in the Keaton movie however is the most commonly told one. He's even the trope namer for Multiply choice past.
> 
> http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Joker#Origin
> 
> ...




That would go back to post #33


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Morrus said:


> "Coolness" (though that probably is not the right word) isn't a measurable definable thing, and it's unlikely anybody can explain it. It just is.  For whatever reason, Boba Fett had the right combination of factors; I don't imagine it can be deliberately replicated, or that the film makers had any idea that it would happen.




I agree with you that "coolness" is probably not the right word.  Somehow, the Boba Fett character has managed to engage the imagination and adoration of a great many Star Wars fans (I have always suspected that the role he plays in the prequels was intended to be a nod to the fans who loved him in the original trilogy, though the effect of the way he was included is highly debatable).  I also agree with you that the reasons for this are probably indefinable, especially given how subjective individual tastes are.

Let me throw out another example of the undefined past: Eastwood in High Plains Drifter (my father loves westerns, so I've seen a few of them).  They leave the real identity of that character untold throughout the entire movie, and if I recall correctly they don't even give him a person's name to go by.  I have always thought that this movie was an interesting example of supernatural elements being slipped into an old western, because it seems to me that Eastwood's character is some kind of spirit/creature of vengeance sent to make everyone pay who was complicit (even via inaction) in allowing the brutal whipping to death of the town marshal.  But, they never do say who he is, and he could just be a good friend of the marshal come to make sure everyone gets what's coming to them for the death of his friend.


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## Morrus (Jul 19, 2015)

Yes, I've seen HPD. Your description is accurate.


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I agree with you that "coolness" is probably not the right word.  Somehow, the Boba Fett character has managed to engage the imagination and adoration of a great many Star Wars fans (I have always suspected that the role he plays in the prequels was intended to be a nod to the fans who loved him in the original trilogy, though the effect of the way he was included is highly debatable).  I also agree with you that the reasons for this are probably indefinable, especially given how subjective individual tastes are.




 “Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.” ― John Greenleaf Whittier



> Let me throw out another example of the undefined past: Eastwood in High Plains Drifter (my father loves westerns, so I've seen a few of them).  They leave the real identity of that character untold throughout the entire movie, and if I recall correctly they don't even give him a person's name to go by.  I have always thought that this movie was an interesting example of supernatural elements being slipped into an old western, because it seems to me that Eastwood's character is some kind of spirit/creature of vengeance sent to make everyone pay who was complicit (even via inaction) in allowing the brutal whipping to death of the town marshal.  But, they never do say who he is, and he could just be a good friend of the marshal come to make sure everyone gets what's coming to them for the death of his friend.




It's even hinted that the Drifter might have been the spirit of the young murdered marshal, with the way that he arrives and vanishes in heat haze.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> It's even hinted that the Drifter might have been the spirit of the young murdered marshal, with the way that he arrives and vanishes in heat haze.




It is hinted at, but he is also very clearly depicted as having a corporeal form (otherwise he could't eat or have sex as he does in the film).


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## Tonguez (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> It is hinted at, but he is also very clearly depicted as having a corporeal form (otherwise he could't eat or have sex as he does in the film).




I always thought of HPD as an Angel of vengeance. funnily enough when thinking about Boba Fett, HPD and Preacher of Pale Rider were the characters that popped into my head too.

That probably helped Boba Fetts coolness, he managed to tap the mythic archetype of silent gunman. He's also the neutral both the outsider - neither Rebel or Empire - and the badass normal (no jedi powers, no Wookie companion) of Star Wars


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## MechaPilot (Jul 19, 2015)

Tonguez said:


> That probably helped Boba Fetts coolness, he managed to tap the mythic archetype of silent gunman. He's also the neutral both the outsider - neither Rebel or Empire - and the badass normal (no jedi powers, no Wookie companion) of Star Wars




He probably would be the badass normal if his badassery were ever truly established in the films.  As I recall the films (it has been a year or two since I've watched the original trilogy), the most badass thing he accomplished was a jetpack-assisted jump and momentarily binding Luke with that cable that was very quickly cut with the lightsaber before Han accidentally poked him in the jetpack and sent him flying like a bottle rocket.

At least with Pale Rider the badassery is established: we see Eastwood knock that giant in the crotch with the sledge before helping him back onto his horse (and that's just one instance).


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## Morrus (Jul 19, 2015)

Tonguez said:


> I always thought of HPD as an Angel of vengeance. funnily enough when thinking about Boba Fett, HPD and Preacher of Pale Rider were the characters that popped into my head too.
> 
> That probably helped Boba Fetts coolness, he managed to tap the mythic archetype of silent gunman. He's also the neutral both the outsider - neither Rebel or Empire - and the badass normal (no jedi powers, no Wookie companion) of Star Wars




I'm pretty sure 99.9999999% of Star Wars characters have no Jedi powers or Wookie companions.

And "silent gunman" is far too modern to be mythic. 

Nah. He taps into something far older than Cowboys and Jedi. The mask is Dick Turpin or older.


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

Morrus said:


> I'm pretty sure 99.9999999% of Star Wars characters have no Jedi powers or Wookie companions.
> 
> And "silent gunman" is far too modern to be mythic.
> 
> Nah. He taps into something far older than Cowboys and Jedi. The mask is Dick Turpin or older.




I'm thinking "Black Knight."


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## Ryujin (Jul 19, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> It is hinted at, but he is also very clearly depicted as having a corporeal form (otherwise he could't eat or have sex as he does in the film).




Returned damned soul, back for one last shot at vengeance, also works.


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## Morrus (Jul 19, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> I'm thinking "Black Knight."




That's the archetype, yeah. Though Vader is more that than Fett. But yeah, that's what he is. Very old archetype.


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## Legatus Legionis (Jul 20, 2015)

.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 20, 2015)

Legatus_Legionis said:


> I do hope in the next trailer, we will be shown something more about what "event" the suicide squad is forced to go up against.




I appreciate why this first one was the way that it was (fans wanted to see Harley and Joker most of all, and the premise of the squad needed to be outlined for those new to the property), but I'd also like to see a hint of the actual plot in the next one.


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## Tonguez (Jul 20, 2015)

Morrus said:


> I'm pretty sure 99.9999999% of Star Wars characters have no Jedi powers or Wookie companions.
> 
> And "silent gunman" is far too modern to be mythic.
> 
> Nah. He taps into something far older than Cowboys and Jedi. The mask is Dick Turpin or older.




actually if you look at most of the actual "name" characters who aren't either Imperials or Rebel Alliance then there really aren't that many who haven't got Jedi Powers or some Alien shtick. 

Han Solo is the other Badass Normal and I'd say Han Solo was more Dick Turpin too. Your right Vader is the Black Knight so perhaps Boba Fett is the Ronin Assasin (like Lone Wolf and Cub) - neither Good nor Bad he has chosen the third way of SwordGun for Hire - But even that ties directly into the Bounty Hunter Cowboy archetype of Preacher


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## Ryujin (Jul 27, 2015)

Well here's a little twist that, if it's true (unfortunately it probably isn't; reasons at link), would make Leto a palatable character for me. Interesting theory. The link is rather spoilerific, so no video preview. You've been warned, if spoilers bother you 

And again, spoilers. Seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L39zDBGXPTU


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## MechaPilot (Jul 28, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Well here's a little twist that, if it's true (unfortunately it probably isn't; reasons at link), would make Leto a palatable character for me. Interesting theory. The link is rather spoilerific, so no video preview. You've been warned, if spoilers bother you
> 
> And again, spoilers. Seriously.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L39zDBGXPTU




I really don't buy into that theory.


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## Ryujin (Jul 28, 2015)

MechaPilot said:


> I really don't buy into that theory.




There certainly are a lot of reasons why it couldn't be the case but, as i said, that would at least make this particular "Joker" more palatable to me.


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## MechaPilot (Jul 28, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> There certainly are a lot of reasons why it couldn't be the case but, as i said, that would at least make this particular "Joker" more palatable to me.




That's interesting.  I have the opposite reaction.  To me, if that conspiracy theory is true then it feels like they shoehorned that in, and that would lessen the appeal of Leto's Joker to me (though not so much that a good performance couldn't help me move past it).


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## Bullgrit (Sep 1, 2015)

Ryujin said:
			
		

> What I'm seeing so far from Leto's Joker strikes me more as attention whore than psychotic villain.



Why not both?  Joker has always been, (that I know of), an attention whore -- I mean, look at his make up and attire, and all his schemes.

Re: _High Plains Drifter_
Coincidentally, I just caught the last few minutes of this movie a few days ago. As he's riding away from the ruined town, there's a guy, (Mickey Rooney?) carving into a grave marker. [Paraphrasing from memory He says to Eastwood's character, "We never learned your name." Eastwood replies, "You know my name." The camera pans around to show the marshal's name on the grave marker.

Bullgrit


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## Morrus (Sep 1, 2015)

Bullgrit said:


> Why not both?  Joker has always been, (that I know of), an attention whore -- I mean, look at his make up and attire, and all his schemes.
> 
> Re: _High Plains Drifter_
> Coincidentally, I just caught the last few minutes of this movie a few days ago. As he's riding away from the ruined town, there's a guy, (Mickey Rooney?) carving into a grave marker. [Paraphrasing from memory He says to Eastwood's character, "We never learned your name." Eastwood replies, "You know my name." The camera pans around to show the marshal's name on the grave marker.
> ...




I thought I'd made it clear that you were no longer welcome on EN World, Bullgrit. If I wasn't clear, then I hope I am being so this time. I'm on my phone, so I'll have to hope you honour that request until I get chance to alter your account status.


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## Bullgrit (Sep 1, 2015)

I was completely unaware that I was in trouble in any way. Very well. I'll bugger off.

Sorry for whatever I did.

Bullgrit


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## Jhaelen (Sep 2, 2015)

Hey Morrus! What's this about?! What did Bullgrit do? I'd like to know because I'd like to refrain from unwittingly doing the same thing...


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## Morrus (Sep 2, 2015)

Jhaelen said:


> Hey Morrus! What's this about?! What did Bullgrit do? I'd like to know because I'd like to refrain from unwittingly doing the same thing...




My answer is the same as the one I gave you via private message. We don't discuss members with each other. And we don't discuss moderation in-thread, either.


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## Crothian (Sep 2, 2015)

Ryujin said:


> Well here's a little twist that, if it's true (unfortunately it probably isn't; reasons at link), would make Leto a palatable character for me. Interesting theory. The link is rather spoilerific, so no video preview. You've been warned, if spoilers bother you
> 
> And again, spoilers. Seriously.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L39zDBGXPTU




That would be fine for a cartoon movie but I think it would confuse people in a live action. The sheer number of different Robins already confuses some people so this would just be more so.


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## MechaPilot (Sep 2, 2015)

Crothian said:


> That would be fine for a cartoon movie but I think it would confuse people in a live action. The sheer number of different Robins already confuses some people so this would just be more so.




I agree.  I think most casual Batman fans may not even be aware that there was more than one Robin, especially older fans (recall that Batman comics have been around for 70 years now, and it's not unreasonable to assume that Batman fans can range from eight to eighty and beyond).


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## Jhaelen (Sep 3, 2015)

Morrus said:


> My answer is the same as the one I gave you via private message. We don't discuss members with each other. And we don't discuss moderation in-thread, either.



Well, I'm not the one who started to make it a public issue.
You also definitely did discuss about other members in tha past. I still have your private posts to prove it.

I'm honestly a bit surprised about this since it seems to go beyond the usual amount of moderation. I've seen plenty of temporary bans around here, but this is different. It scares me.


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## Morrus (Sep 3, 2015)

Jhaelen said:


> Well, I'm not the one who started to make it a public issue.
> You also definitely did discuss about other members in tha past. I still have your private posts to prove it.
> 
> I'm honestly a bit surprised about this since it seems to go beyond the usual amount of moderation. I've seen plenty of temporary bans around here, but this is different. It scares me.




Jhaelen, you are familiar with the rules here - you've been here 10 years.  Please stop discussing moderation in-thread.  Now, let's get back to discussing the Suicide Squad.


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## The Yellow Pill (Sep 21, 2015)

Crothian said:


> That would be fine for a cartoon movie but I think it would confuse people in a live action. The sheer number of different Robins already confuses some people so this would just be more so.




This will be released six months after Batman V Superman, so there's a chance for some exposition there.


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## Legatus Legionis (Sep 21, 2015)

.


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## BoxingtonPAS (May 4, 2022)

Bullgrit said:


> I was completely unaware that I was in trouble in any way. Very well. I'll bugger off.
> 
> Sorry for whatever I did.
> 
> Bullgrit



It looks like you were not banned (I see no notification) but you left voluntarily? Was this a scare tactic? A threat to not have to justify the "ban?"


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## BoxingtonPAS (Aug 16, 2022)

Morrus said:


> My answer is the same as the one I gave you via private message. We don't discuss members with each other. And we don't discuss moderation in-thread, either.



sounds like bulls-hit got bullgrit in trouble. so much for transparency around here


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