# D&D is so METAL



## Erithtotl (Nov 16, 2007)

Looks like no one posted this.  Perhaps I'm the only one who fits into the category described in the article:

Decibel - D&D


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 16, 2007)

That was interesting, though very poorly written.


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## Stone Dog (Nov 16, 2007)

I forget where I got this, but here you go.



> "Consider this ... the 4e default campaign is "points of light in a dark, dangerous world." (sounds grim). Orcus is on the cover of the new Monster Manual. Paladins can be any alignment (um, meaning evil). The PH cover shows the return of hookerplate boobmail. They're getting rid of gnomes. Armored Beholders. Asmodeus is a god. Half-demon (excuse me, tieflings) PC races -- like here and, um yes, here: the hot demon chick. I mean christ, even the dwarves are hot! Tell me, isn't it just plain wrong that dwarves are now hot!? Aren't they suppose to have beards?
> 
> Is this the most METAL version of D&D ever?
> 
> ...


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## Asmor (Nov 16, 2007)

\m/


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## Prince of Happiness (Nov 16, 2007)

\mm/ Too much metal for one hand.

D&D could use more metalness again.

Enough with the "Hail and well met fair traveller, let us have a nice cup of mulled wine and warm ourselves by the fire, and regale me with tales of your adventures in the Softwood, snivel, snivel" and more "BY FIRELIGHT WE HEWED OUR WAY THROUGH THE STENTORIAN HORDES IN THE INFERNAL ABYSS OF DRAUGORTHORAX. MANY A WEAKLING FELL BY OUR AXE AND SWORD UNTIL WE WERE KNEE DEEP IN BLOOD AND ICHOR. THEN, AND ONLY THEN WERE. WE. ABLE. TO. ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCKKKKK!!!!"

Not that I'm really a metal fan myself (lots of friends I know are). But sometime, I think in the presentation, D&D needs some more "RRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGH!!!"

Or something.


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## Clavis (Nov 16, 2007)

My AD&D campaign in High School had PCs named after metal bands and musicians (other characters were named for figures in horror and action movies). The intermixing of the thrash/death/black/power/speed metal scene and D&D was definitely there.

That was back when D&D totally ruled and did not suck! Nobody asked about things like attacks of opportunity; the players just wanted to know if the the monster's guts got spilled all over the place, if there was enough gold for the PCs to steal, and if there were pretty whores waiting for them back in town.


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## Drowbane (Nov 16, 2007)

\m/    \m/


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## redmagerush (Nov 17, 2007)

Just to spite this my first 4e game is either going to be diy punk rock based or snobby intellectual elite indie rock based. 

Take that metal.


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## Prince of Happiness (Nov 17, 2007)

redmagerush said:
			
		

> Just to spite this my first 4e game is either going to be diy punk rock based or snobby intellectual elite indie rock based.
> 
> Take that metal.




"I call upon Cat Power to let the orcs know that wasn't very cool."

"My warforged, Ladytron, is going to go up to the sea hags and compare knit scarves."


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## redmagerush (Nov 17, 2007)

Touche, touche.


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## Fishbone (Nov 17, 2007)

D&D has always been blacker than the blackest black...times infinity.
Wasn't that the stereotype of the D&D player throughout the 80s anyhow, a metalhead, possibly a pothead?


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## Prince of Happiness (Nov 17, 2007)

redmagerush said:
			
		

> Touche, touche.




 If it got cute indie rock girls into my game, I'd be all for it. I live in one of _those_ neighborhoods where they gather...and..._damn_.


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## redmagerush (Nov 17, 2007)

Prince of Happiness said:
			
		

> If it got cute indie rock girls into my game, I'd be all for it. I live in one of _those_ neighborhoods where they gather...and..._damn_.





We've gotten a couple to play around here. Most of the girls we get to play though are more like the hardcore/punk variety, who scare me sometimes.

But really, a campaign built around Decemberists songs would be fun.


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## Prince of Happiness (Nov 17, 2007)

redmagerush said:
			
		

> We've gotten a couple to play around here. Most of the girls we get to play though are more like the hardcore/punk variety, who scare me sometimes.
> 
> But really, a campaign built around Decemberists songs would be fun.




Nice! 

Dungeons & The Shins.


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## Cage-Rattler (Nov 17, 2007)

What?  No one's yet mentioned, "My-love-for-you-is-like-a-truck; BER-SER-KER!"


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## redmagerush (Nov 17, 2007)

Paizo should do an AP based around the Rhapsody of Fire discography.


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## Thurbane (Nov 17, 2007)

*I'm a 9th level Ronnie James Dio*


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## Asmor (Nov 17, 2007)

3 Inches of Blood - Advance and Vanquish - Destroy the Orcs said:
			
		

> Kill the orcs, slay the orcs, destroy the orcs
> Kill the orcs, slay the orcs, destroy the orcs
> Kill the orcs, slay the orcs, destroy the orcs
> Kill the orcs, slay the orcs, destroy the orcs
> ...




Is D&D metal or is metal D&D?

Actually, now that I think about it, this isn't very D&D-like... First of all, every PC's family has been dead for years before the campaign starts... And even more egregious-- while there's plenty of killing, there's no mention of taking the orcs' stuff!

Heathens!


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 17, 2007)

*I'm a 13th lvel ManoWar*


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## Blair Goatsblood (Nov 17, 2007)

I was wondering when this was going to come out.

“When D&D started, Gary Gygax was influenced by simple pulp adventure fiction. For him it was about dungeon adventuring. D&D, especially the second edition with Dragonlance and all that stuff, got really into creating a saga, and to me that lost the original spirit of D&D. When dungeon masters started creating these epic world-saving fantasy stories, I think D&D lost its way. I see a parallel between old D&D and people who keep to that spirit, and old metal and the people who keep to the spirit of that. I prefer my D&D to be more necro and cult.”


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 17, 2007)

Heh, I love the articles reference to *the Temple of Elementary Evil*.

"This temple is dedicated to evil of Grades 1-3..."


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 17, 2007)

I'm not sure that picture is very Eric's Grandma friendly.

I missed the "elementary evil" line. Like I said, poorly written, or at least poorly edited.


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## Stone Dog (Nov 17, 2007)

"Man o' War" is the new Warlord.


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## Pants (Nov 17, 2007)

Thurbane said:
			
		

>



In 4e, you play Dio instead of halflings.


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## Thurbane (Nov 17, 2007)

Pants said:
			
		

> In 4e, you play Dio instead of halflings.



 

Of course, the Sons of Kyuss are now Sons of the Queens of the Stone Age...


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## Griffith Dragonlake (Nov 17, 2007)

I'm level 666 Black Sabbath.


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## Thurbane (Nov 17, 2007)

Dethklok - Thurnderhorse


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## Griffith Dragonlake (Nov 17, 2007)

*Grymwurld: The Metal Years™*

Seriously, though I've been running Heavy Metal themed D&D games for a very long time.  Heck, my game world is called Grymwurld™ and even ran a campaign called Grymwurld: The Metal Years,™ not to mention Grymwurld: Merchants of Death™ and Grymwurld: A Dark Mirror.™

*Classes:* Neon Knights prestige class, Sorcerers of Madness core class, The Trooper, Defender of the Faith prestige class, Pyrotech [Gene Simmons wannabe], Courtier (Paul Stanley wannabe), Witch, Chevalier de la Rose, and Chaplain (Cleric of War).

*Locations:* Witches' Valley, Silver Mountain, 22 Acacia Avenue, Temple of the King

*Monsters:* Children of the Grave, Children of the Sea, Cenobites, The Elder, The Nameless One (a.k.a he who must not be named).

I've always played loud heavy metal music during combat and Renaissance music out of combat — the Kull movie stole that from me.


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## Theron (Nov 17, 2007)

redmagerush said:
			
		

> Paizo should do an AP based around the Rhapsody of Fire discography.




What, _The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergard_ wasn't?


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## I'm A Banana (Nov 17, 2007)

> But really, a campaign built around Decemberists songs would be fun.




....not before we have rules for sailing ships, ghosts, and crippling poverty!


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## The Thayan Menace (Nov 17, 2007)

*True Krynnish Metal*
​


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## Slife (Nov 17, 2007)

Enough said


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## Aeolius (Nov 17, 2007)

meh.... my D&D is New Age


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## Drowbane (Nov 17, 2007)

Cage-Rattler said:
			
		

> What?  No one's yet mentioned, "My-love-for-you-is-like-a-truck; BER-SER-KER!"



I was thinking it...


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## Wormwood (Nov 17, 2007)

Fishbone said:
			
		

> Wasn't that the stereotype of the D&D player throughout the 80s anyhow, a metalhead, possibly a pothead?




You just described half of my current game.


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## The Merciful (Nov 17, 2007)

Figures. Geeky music for a geeky hobby...


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## Imaro (Nov 17, 2007)

Never liked metal...My D&D games are inspired by the gray morally ambiguous heroes/anti-heroes, money, fame & bling (treasure), and violence of rap and (some)hip hop culture.  Something a little like this...


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## The Thayan Menace (Nov 17, 2007)

*RPG Militancy*





Nice, but I prefer games that encourage community awareness.​


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## Imaro (Nov 17, 2007)

Oh, don't think players don't suffer reprecussions for their actions or aren't faced with hard decisions in my games...Never said I glorified this lifestyle. There's always a price to be paid for your actions.  But I think rap music and rappers serve as an interesting metaphor for the adventurer and what he/she is wiling to do in pursuit of treasure...plus it just sounds cool when it's playing during a fight.


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## ruleslawyer (Nov 17, 2007)

Wutang is so anime.


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## ruleslawyer (Nov 17, 2007)

Stone Dog said:
			
		

> I forget where I got this, but here you go.
> 
> [Some METAL craziness.]



I would *love* to play in that sort of game... and I'm hardly a metal fan.

FWIW, The Crane Wife and Shankhill butchers (plus a bunch of Dylan ballads) are in my D&D gaming playlist... although we trot out the Conan the Barbarian soundtrack for battles. (Can't get more metal than Basil Poledouris, baby!)


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## Imaro (Nov 17, 2007)

ruleslawyer said:
			
		

> Wutang is so anime.




That's why it goes so good with D&D 3.5...


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## Thurbane (Nov 17, 2007)

Pants said:
			
		

> In 4e, you play Dio instead of halflings.



Maybe that's why Gnomes got the chop...they are being replaced by the Dio:

* +2 Charisma, -2 Strength
* Small: As a Small creature, a Dio gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
* +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when it’s caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too.
* +2 racial bonus on Perform (sing) checks.
* Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—protection from evil (devil's horns)
* Favored Class: Bard. A multiclass Dio’s bard class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty.


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## ejja_1 (Nov 17, 2007)

*D&D theme music*

For battles Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Man O War are all mainstays.
Otherwise we have a gaming CD for fantasy and another for modern and sci fi that play in the back ground while we game. fantasy is mostly conan and lotr with a smattering of braveheart and some celtic folk music. The sci fi and modern are mostly dance rave and goa.


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## Lanefan (Nov 17, 2007)

Prince of Happiness said:
			
		

> \mm/ Too much metal for one hand.
> 
> D&D could use more metalness again.
> 
> Enough with the "Hail and well met fair traveller, let us have a nice cup of mulled wine and warm ourselves by the fire, and regale me with tales of your adventures in the Softwood, snivel, snivel" and more "BY FIRELIGHT WE HEWED OUR WAY THROUGH THE STENTORIAN HORDES IN THE INFERNAL ABYSS OF DRAUGORTHORAX. MANY A WEAKLING FELL BY OUR AXE AND SWORD UNTIL WE WERE KNEE DEEP IN BLOOD AND ICHOR. THEN, AND ONLY THEN WERE. WE. ABLE. TO. ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCKKKKK!!!!"



I think there's a place for both.

"Hail fellow, well met..." is for town, when gathering information or recruiting new party members.

"RRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWKKKKKK!!!!" is for the dungeon, when the blood runs deep and the enemy is before you.

Lanefan


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 17, 2007)

Slife said:
			
		

>




Weedley Weedley Weedley Weeeeeee!


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 17, 2007)

I was forst exposed to D&D abot 1980 on a news "Special report" about how this mysterious game was making metalheads kill each other.

I _had_ to check it out after that sell


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 17, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> Never liked metal...My D&D games are inspired by the gray morally ambiguous heroes/anti-heroes, money, fame & bling (treasure), and violence of rap and (some)hip hop culture.  Something a little like this...




How much time do they spend selling *Black Lotus* on street corners until the City Watch arrive?

Do the female adventurers get referred to as Bitches/Ho's?

Do they hold their crossbows sideways while threatening each other?

How many innocent bystanders get hit when they drive by an orc?

Inquiring minds want to know


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## Imaro (Nov 17, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> How much time do they spend selling *Black Lotus* on street corners until the City Watch arrive?
> 
> Do the female adventurers get referred to as Bitches/Ho's?
> 
> ...




You know you're actually talking about the lifestyle of most gangbangers, not rappers (and badly stereotyped movie gangbangers at that).  In fact for all those points except 2, I'd say it was definitely the gangbanging culture you are trying to describe as opposed to the rapper culture.

That said, you could replace Bitches/Ho's with wenches and you've got a thieves guild vs. assasins guild based campaign right there with factions seeking to control the Black Lotus trade in the city.  Or, it could easily be a mercenary type campaign where you're hired by a crimelord to subdue sections of a lawless city in his name while fighting against other competing crimelords.  Better yet a paladin who has gathered a group to bring equality and peace to a crimeridden city...but how far can you go (must you go?) before you become just as feared, violent and vicious as the ones you struggle against?  Can you have morals and ethics in this environment or must they be discarded in pursuit of your goals.

In the end there's alot of issues represented in Hip Hop/Rap  that can serve as interesting fodder for campaign ideas if you're willing to actually understand truth vs. fiction.


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## jmucchiello (Nov 17, 2007)

Not to single you out but....


			
				Griffith Dragonlake said:
			
		

> Heck, my game world is called Grymwurld™ and even ran a campaign called Grymwurld: The Metal Years,™ not to mention Grymwurld: Merchants of Death™ and Grymwurld: A Dark Mirror.™



Where are the umlauts?


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## S'mon (Nov 17, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> You know you're actually talking about the lifestyle of most gangbangers, not rappers (and badly stereotyped movie gangbangers at that).  In fact for all those points except 2, I'd say it was definitely the gangbanging culture you are trying to describe as opposed to the rapper culture.




He's describing the culture that has been presented by Snoop Dogg, 50 cent, and legions of other 'gangsta rappers' for a good 15 years now.  This is what we see if we turn on MTV to one of the hip-hop channels.


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## The Thayan Menace (Nov 18, 2007)

*4E is so TECHNO*



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> How much time do they spend selling *Black Lotus* on street corners until the City Watch arrive?





 

​


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## LoneWolf23 (Nov 18, 2007)

French rap group IAM has had a lot of D&D-worthy tunes, especially their earlier albums.


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## Imaro (Nov 18, 2007)

S'mon said:
			
		

> He's describing the culture that has been presented by Snoop Dogg, 50 cent, and legions of other 'gangsta rappers' for a good 15 years now.  This is what we see if we turn on MTV to one of the hip-hop channels.




No...he's presenting a fictitious culture as presented by "gangsta" rap artists (key point being there's a big difference between a gangbanger and someone who raps about gangbangers) that is inspired by true gang culture.  Sort of like how much liberty those "based on a true story" movies can take, yet still be assumed truthful by people who see them and choose not to research or further explore what is and isn't fact.  

Rappers like 50 cent, Snoop Dog, etc. live in mansions do corny comercials and * pretend * to live a lifestyle most were never part of from the beginning...you know like an actor.

If your only exsposure to hip hop is MTV, I can totally understand why you believe the above to be the case.  However just because it's on tv, doesn't make it true and 9 out of 10 times doesn't make it in anyway "realistic".


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 18, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> No...he's presenting a fictitious culture as presented by "gangsta" rap artists (key point being there's a big difference between a gangbanger and someone who raps about gangbangers) that is inspired by true gang culture.  Sort of like how much liberty those "based on a true story" movies can take, yet still be assumed truthful by people who see them and choose not to research or further explore what is and isn't fact.
> 
> Rappers like 50 cent, Snoop Dog, etc. live in mansions do corny comercials and * pretend * to live a lifestyle most were never part of from the beginning...you know like an actor...




I find it...questionable...that your claim this culture that places so much emphasis on being "real" is, in fact, completely fake.

It just seems odd to me that the fact that this 20-odd year old culture has never been revealed--by the media or anyone else--as the complete fakery that it apparently is.

I guess what I am saying is that you are likely and apologist of some sort...and almost certainly incorrect.


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## The Thayan Menace (Nov 18, 2007)

*C'est la vie. C'est la guerre.*



			
				LoneWolf23 said:
			
		

> French rap group IAM has had a lot of D&D-worthy tunes, especially their earlier albums.



I prefer these fools ... cuz they bring the nihilism.    

-MC Asad: Weapon of Choice


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## Imaro (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I find it...questionable...that your claim this culture that places so much emphasis on being "real" is, in fact, completely fake.
> 
> It just seems odd to me that the fact that this 20-odd year old culture has never been revealed--by the media or anyone else--as the complete fakery that it apparently is.
> 
> I guess what I am saying is that you are likely and apologist of some sort...and almost certainly incorrect.




WTF?  Most gangbangers aren't rich, and most rappers would've been in prison for life if they had shot and/or killed as many people as they claim to.  You ever notice how rap songs always have a basically triumphant ending...most drugdealers and gangbangers don't end up that way.

First off, let me clarify soemthing for you..."gansta rap" isn't a culture...it's music that's based on urban street culture.  Hip hop on the other hand is considered a culture that encompases everything from be-boxing & mixing to break dancing and graffitti art.

As far as fakery...who cares if it sells.  There have been numerous documentaries and exposes on rappers...When was the last time any of these numerous self-proclaimed murderers and drugdealers who publicly proclaim all these things they did go to prison for it?  Here and there you might find one or two, but overall not happening.  This is like saying Marilyn Manson is a real serial killer...yeah right.

As far as me being an appologist, nope.  I am a realist who grew up on the southside of Chicao with family members who were Folks and Stones (Chicago gangs in case you didn't know).  I've seen people die from gunshot wounds, heroin overdoses, and beatings.  I've also seen the lives my cousins had through these gangs and they didn't live in mansions with ferraris. didn't travel the world with briefcases full of cash, and sure didn't end up triumphant over "the man".  Most spent numerous stints in prison and ended up dead.  I even participated in some of this stuff, but I was also smart enough to realize it was a quick road to nowhere.  Luckily my mother introduced me to D&D and I found something I could retreat into ratther than being submersed in that environment, along with playing football, these two things were probably my biggest influence against getting deeper into that life.  So what exactly am I apologizing for?  Rappers, like most entertainers are playing a role for money...not avtually living that role out.


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## interwyrm (Nov 18, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> hard knock life etc.




D&D is my antidrug!

Marilyn Manson doesn't claim to kill people. I've listened to a lot of his stuff. I know that 'underground' hip hop, isn't that gangbanging crap. It's underground though... meaning not as popular?

As for the famous rappers... how do you know they don't do all the things they talk about? I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them have been involved in drug deals and violence... but they made it big. Do all gangbangers make it big? Hell no. It doesn't mean that none of them do.


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## Filcher (Nov 18, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> But I think rap music and rappers serve as an interesting metaphor for the adventurer and what he/she is wiling to do in pursuit of treasure...





"Get Rich, Or Die Trying" describes my current players pretty well.


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## TarionzCousin (Nov 18, 2007)

Cage-Rattler said:
			
		

> What?  No one's yet mentioned, "My-love-for-you-is-like-a-truck; BER-SER-KER!"





			
				Drowbane said:
			
		

> I was thinking it...



Drowbane, Isn't this the song Rabelais was singing during Sven's attempted escape from prison?


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## Asmor (Nov 18, 2007)

TarionzCousin said:
			
		

> Drowbane, Isn't this the song Rabelais was singing during Sven's attempted escape from prison?




It's the song that Jay's cousin (or whatever) sings in Clerks.


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## Griffith Dragonlake (Nov 18, 2007)

jmucchiello said:
			
		

> Not to single you out but....
> Where are the umlauts?



 
Yes, I use a blackletter font (Old English Text MT) for the Grymwurld™ logo and headers.  And I used to use an umlaut, i.e. Grýmwürld but when a German-speaking friend of my pronounced it, I decided to drop the umlaut.  Although if I ever publish for profit, I may bring back the umlaut-u and accented-y to bring in the Metalheads….


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 18, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> As far as me being an appologist, nope.  I am a realist who grew up on the southside of Chicago with family members who were Folks and Stones (Chicago gangs in case you didn't know).




No, lowlifes don't hold that allure for me that they do for most of the rap "culture".



			
				Gold Chain and Jogging Suit said:
			
		

> ...I've seen people die from gunshot wounds, heroin overdoses, and beatings.  I've also seen the lives my cousins had through these gangs and they didn't live in mansions with ferraris. didn't travel the world with briefcases full of cash, and sure didn't end up triumphant over "the man"...




So...no money, no mansions, no toys...



			
				Hard Knock Life said:
			
		

> ...You know you're actually talking about the lifestyle of most gangbangers, not rappers (and badly stereotyped movie gangbangers at that). In fact for all those points except 2, I'd say it was definitely the gangbanging culture you are trying to describe as opposed to the rapper culture.




...but also no violence, drive-bys, or drugs.

Makes me wonder what exactly you _are_ talking about when you describe your rap-fueled games as you did above...



			
				Chicago Badass said:
			
		

> ...My D&D games are inspired by the gray morally ambiguous heroes/anti-heroes, money, fame & bling (treasure), and violence of rap...




Measured by your yardstick, rap has _none_ of that. No money, no fame and--startlingly--no violence.

So, you are literally making no sense now.


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## Teflon Billy (Nov 18, 2007)

Griffith Dragonlake said:
			
		

> Yes, I use a blackletter font (Old English Text MT) for the Grymwurld™ logo and headers.  And I used to use an umlaut, i.e. Grýmwürld but when a German-speaking friend of my pronounced it, I decided to drop the umlaut.  Although if I ever publish for profit, I may bring back the umlaut-u and accented-y to bring in the Metalheads….




Let me know when you are looking for playtesters


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## Slife (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Measured by your yardstick, rap has _none_ of that. No money, no fame and--startlingly--no violence.
> 
> So, you are literally making no cents now.




I wouldn't go quite that far...


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## Thurbane (Nov 18, 2007)

So, have we finished dissecting thug life? Can we get back to the metal?


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## Drowbane (Nov 18, 2007)

TarionzCousin said:
			
		

> Drowbane, Isn't this the song Rabelais was singing during Sven's attempted escape from prison?




hahaha, yeah... just before Sven got "arrowhawked".


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## Imaro (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> No, lowlifes don't hold that allure for me that they do for most of the rap "culture".




Good for you...what is the point of this as far as what I said?




			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> So...no money, no mansions, no toys...




Okay first off my name isn't Gold chain and Jogging suit, Hardknock Life or Chicago Badass...I'm asking that if you quote me you use my name...apparently you couldn't think of any witty pseudo-name for me with the first quote...so why don't you keep it that way with everything else I post that you quote.  I'm addressing you in a respectful manner and I expect the same.  

As far as the above quote...read it again,  I'm talking about real gangbangers/drug dealers/whatever.  And yeah the vast majority of them aren't living in mansions, and don't have exspensive toys.  Where's the dissconnect here?



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> ...but also no violence, drive-bys, or drugs.




Now keep up because here I'm talking about rappers you know like 50 cent., Jay-Z, etc.  When was the last time one of them was convicted of committing a drive-by?  Or sent to prison for distribution of illegal substances?  Is there violence in the life of a rapper?  Yep, there's violence in everyones life, but when you live in a mansion, have hired bodyguards, are doing corny commercials and make the type of money most of them do, it's hard to believe the level of violence they interact with on a daily basis is anywhere near what their music makes it seem.  



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Makes me wonder what exactly you _are_ talking about when you describe your rap-fueled games as you did above...




*sigh*, let me try and answer this, as I hope you are really looking for discussion of this and not just trying to goad me into an argument (which is where I really feel you want this whole discussion to go).  The same way James Bond =/= "the exploits of a real secret agent", yet you could base a "secret agent"  game off the impropable events that take place in the Bond movies and even throw it a more realistic curve if you want with a little research.  Thus I can take the impropable depiction of street-life alot of gangsta rappers project and toss in my own experiences to make it, IMHO, more realistic in my eyes.





			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Measured by your yardstick, rap has _none_ of that. No money, no fame and--startlingly--no violence.
> 
> So, you are literally making no sense now.




This quote made no sense as nowhere did I claim that rap has no violence, no money and no fame.  Where did I say this?


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## Kae'Yoss (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

>




That's exactly what I think of 4e. 4e is Manowar: Some of the mechanics (rules mechanics/ instromental part of the music) might be okay, but the fluff (flavour material/ lyrics) I just can't take seriously. 

You can play M4now4r, I'll stick to my old M3tallica albums and stuff like that.


----------



## Asmor (Nov 18, 2007)

Kae'Yoss said:
			
		

> M3tallica




Metallica makes baby napster cry.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 18, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> Now keep up because here I'm talking about rappers you know like 50 cent., Jay-Z, etc. When was the last time one of them was convicted of committing a drive-by?  Or sent to prison for distribution of illegal substances?  Is there violence in the life of a rapper?  Yep, there's violence in everyones life, but when you live in a mansion, have hired bodyguards, are doing corny commercials and make the type of money most of them do, it's hard to believe the level of violence they interact with on a daily basis is anywhere near what their music makes it seem.




Hmm...I'm kind of shocked I have to explain this, but I thought it was a *common *assumption that rappers--when glorifying the violence, misogyny, crime and drug use of their lives--were rapping about their lives _before_ 
"making it big".

I literally didn't think there was a person on Earth who thought that 50 Cent was out on the corner selling dimebags of rock between concerts.

I honestly thought that it was a _given _that these guys were glorifying their previous lives...not their current ones.



> *sigh*, let me try and answer this, as I hope you are really looking for discussion of this and not just trying to goad me into an argument (which is where I really feel you want this whole discussion to go).  The same way James Bond =/= "the exploits of a real secret agent"...




Where your analogy falls apart with regard to Rappers "playing a role" is that Daniel Craig doesn't endlessly go on about how his _actual life_ as a Secret Agent for MI-5 is what makes him best-suited to play the role of James Bond.



> This quote made no sense as nowhere did I claim that rap has no violence, no money and no fame.  Where did I say this?




Well, I already pulled the quotes above, but I can do so again if you like...



			
				Imaro said:
			
		

> You know you're actually talking about the lifestyle of most gangbangers, not rappers...




See right there, where you say I'm _not_ describing Rappers? That's the beginning of it.

Then you change your tune a bit, to the following...



			
				Imaro said:
			
		

> First off, let me clarify soemthing for you..."gansta rap" isn't a culture...it's music that's based on urban street culture. Hip hop on the other hand is considered a culture that encompases everything from be-boxing & mixing to break dancing and graffitti art.




So...I _am_ talking about Rap, just not the Rap _you_ are talking about...

I thought you were about to tell me your campaign was about beat-boxing, break dancing  and Graffitti.

Except you then said the following...



			
				Imaro said:
			
		

> Thus I can take the improbable depiction of street-life a lot of gangsta rappers project and toss in my own experiences to make it, IMHO, more realistic in my eyes.




So--after taking me to task for assuming that the elements of Rap you were bringing into your game were Gangsta Rap elements, and bitching to me that "that's not Rap"--you are in fact doing exactly what I said?

What _is_ your argument man? You are all over the board here.




			
				Imaro said:
			
		

> In the end there's alot of issues represented in Hip Hop/Rap that can serve as interesting fodder for campaign ideas if you're willing to actually understand truth vs. fiction.




Would that be Beat Boxing? or Grafitti?

Because the rest of what you are selling appears to be Gangbanger culture and not--by your own insistence--"Rap".


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 18, 2007)

Kae'Yoss said:
			
		

> That's exactly what I think of 4e. 4e is Manowar: Some of the mechanics (rules mechanics/ instromental part of the music) might be okay, but the fluff (flavour material/ lyrics) I just can't take seriously.
> 
> You can play M4now4r, I'll stick to my old M3tallica albums and stuff like that.




Heh, if I have to choose between old school Metallica and Manowar...put me down for Metallica

But surely you'll agree that Album Cover is about as "D&D" as one could imagine


----------



## Pants (Nov 18, 2007)

Well there went this thread... 

And I was finally happy to find a thread not filled with anything about 4e... or rap. Guess I have too high of standards...


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Heh, if I have to choose between old school Metallica and Manowar...put me down for Metallica
> 
> But surely you'll agree that Album Cover is about as "D&D" as one could imagine




Yeah, it's cool. Some of their music sounds good, too. You only have to not know what they're singing (I used to listen to them a bit when I was over at a friend's place and liked them. Then I learned enough English to hear what they're singing about...)


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Nov 18, 2007)

Pants said:
			
		

> Well there went this thread...
> 
> And I was finally happy to find a thread not filled with anything about 4e... or rap. Guess I have too high of standards...




Okay, let's no longer talk about 4e... or rap. Good old 3rd edition heavy metal!


----------



## Imaro (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Hmm...I'm kind of shocked I have to explain this, but I thought it was a *common *assumption that rappers--when glorifying the violence, misogyny, crime and drug use of their lives--were rapping about their lives _before_
> "making it big".




Oh...you mean like this...
50 cent... http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/50 cent a .fake..





			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I literally didn't think there was a person on Earth who thought that 50 Cent was out on the corner selling dimebags of rock between concerts.
> 
> I honestly thought that it was a _given _that these guys were glorifying their previous lives...not their current ones.




What I'm saying is that their rapper personas are often vast exaggerations of what they've actually been through.  Furthermore in alot of more recent gangsta rap the realities of street life are often glamourized to the point approaching absurdity.  This my original statement that it's akin to a "based on a true story" type movie, with all the liberties that can involve.



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Where your analogy falls apart with regard to Rappers "playing a role" is that Daniel Craig doesn't endlessly go on about how his _actual life_ as a Secret Agent for MI-5 is what makes him best-suited to play the role of James Bond.




Selling to different audiences and you yourself said the whole "keepin it real" thing is important to keep selling things.  Whether it's true or false is a matter of taking the time and effort to resarch the particular artist...something very few people are going to actually do.




			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Well, I already pulled the quotes above, but I can do so again if you like...
> 
> 
> 
> See right there, where you say I'm _not_ describing Rappers? That's the beginning of it.




I feel it's you who have it confused.  You readily admit no one should believe 50 cent is selling drugs between shows or doing drive bys...yet you earlier claim shooting a gun sideways & hitting innocent bystanders is part of a rapppers lifestyle.  Which one is it.  My point is a rapper and a rapper's persona and music are totally different things...



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> How much time do they spend selling Black Lotus on street corners until the City Watch arrive?
> 
> Do the female adventurers get referred to as Bitches/Ho's?
> 
> ...




All I did was state that most rappers aren't doing these things (except #2)...and that they are more the province of the culture rappers base their music on.




			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Then you change your tune a bit, to the following...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You were correct in assuming I was talking about elements of gangsta rap...which are essentially exaggerated elements of street life.  Where I differentiated, and it may have been a misunderstanding on my part about what you were saying was the difference between the actual rappers and what they do vs. their music and what it's about.  My game elements are from their music and personas...not from actual rappers and their real lives.  That's all I'm saying.




			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Would that be Beat Boxing? or Grafitti?
> 
> Because the rest of what you are selling appears to be Gangbanger culture and not--by your own insistence--"Rap".




Gangsta rap is based on gangbanger culture...D&D is such a high powered game at mid to high levels it doesn't really do gritty urban realistic very well, but it does do gangsta rap exaggeration of streetlife pretty well.  I mean you really can take 20 arrows at a cerain level and keep coming...you can annihilate the city guard special task force at a certain level all by yourself, etc.

I will bow out on this discussion now, as I feel it has hijacked the thread long enough.  I really didn't expect it to go on for this long, and I feel I may have misunderstood Teflon Billy or he may have misunderstood me.  In either case I don't think much more will be accomplished by further discussion of the topic, so I will refrain from discussing rap in this thread.


----------



## Gentlegamer (Nov 18, 2007)

As a young boy chasing dragons
with your wooden sword so mighty
you're St. George or your David
and you always killed the beast . . .


----------



## Thurbane (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Heh, if I have to choose between old school Metallica and Manowar...put me down for Metallica
> 
> But surely you'll agree that Album Cover is about as "D&D" as one could imagine



I dunno, some of the Blind Guardian and Savatage album covers would come pretty close.


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Nov 18, 2007)

Thurbane said:
			
		

> I dunno, some of the Blind Guardian and Savatage album covers would come pretty close.




Absolutely. Especially BG, having always had a strong fantasy theme (after all, they did a whole album on tolkien's Silmarillion. Nightfall in Middle Earth's still one of my all-time favourite albums. They even made a song about Raistlin).


----------



## S'mon (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I find it...questionable...that your claim this culture that places so much emphasis on being "real" is, in fact, completely fake.




Yeah, round near where I live (South London) there are pretty regular news stories about celebrity rappers going down for shooting people - rivals, each other, etc.  So Solid Crew in particular are probably more famous for their criminal activity than their music.   But my point was about how hip-hop is presented in the mass market, ie by MTV.  It's basically all gangsta rap these days, and that's been the case now for a long time.


----------



## S'mon (Nov 18, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> But surely you'll agree that Album Cover is about as "D&D" as one could imagine




OD&D or 1e maybe, definitely not 2e, BECMI or 3(.5)e!


----------



## S'mon (Nov 18, 2007)

BTW reading this thread yesterday inspired me to go 'heavy metal' DVD shopping on amazon, here's what I ended up with:

1 of: Heavy Metal [1996] - the cartoon movie

1 of: Krull [1983]

1 of: She [1982] - the Sandahl Bergman post-apocalypse version!

1 of: Fire And Ice [1983] - the Ralph Bakshi movie/cartoon

1 of: Deathstalker [1984] [DVD] (2007)


----------



## haakon1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Heh, if I have to choose between old school Metallica and Manowar...put me down for Metallica




For me, D&D music is:
- Metallica, old or new (from "Am I Evil?" to "No Leaf Clover", with tons of good stuff in between)
- Zep (sure, sure, "Stairway" and "Ramble On", but also "Immigrant Song", "Battle of Evermore", "No Quarter", "Kashmir", and about a dozen more)
- Rush ("The Necromancer" 20-minute opus on "Caress of Steel" and most of the album "Fairwell to Kings".  I'm convinced By-Tor and Snowdog were their D&D character names, but I might be nuts!)
- Conan soundtrack & the like
- Other "perfectly themed" songs like the Jimi Hendrix cover of "All Along the Watchtower"
- certain Irish traditional music (The Chieftain's album "Long Black Veil" has some good stuff like the cover track, "The Foggy Dew", and "Mo Ghile Mear (Our Hero)").
- certain songs by Sting or Mark Knofler


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 19, 2007)

haakon1 said:
			
		

> For me, D&D music is:
> - Metallica, old or new (from "Am I Evil?" to "No Leaf Clover", with tons of good stuff in between)
> - Zep (sure, sure, "Stairway" and "Ramble On", but also "Immigrant Song", "Battle of Evermore", "No Quarter", "Kashmir", and about a dozen more)
> - Rush ("The Necromancer" 20-minute opus on "Caress of Steel" and most of the album "Fairwell to Kings".  I'm convinced By-Tor and Snowdog were their D&D character names, but I might be nuts!)
> ...




That list looks awesome, until....



> - certain songs by Sting or Mark Knopfler




Odd choices. Can you elaborate on them a bit?


----------



## LoneWolf23 (Nov 19, 2007)

I think Rhapsody of Fire (formerly just Rhapsody) is probably one of the more D&D-ish Metal bands out there.  Especially since they've written what is essentially a whole multi-album Heavy Metal Epic, the "Emerald Sword Saga".


----------



## Gentlegamer (Nov 19, 2007)

For some epic, D&D appropriate, heavy metal, I heartily recommend Hammerfall.


----------



## haakon1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> That list looks awesome, until....
> 
> <<-certain songs by Sting or Mark Knopfler>>
> 
> Odd choices. Can you elaborate on them a bit?




I understand your hesitation.  I'm thinking of their stuff that feels old British Isles, as mood music for home front setting stuff, certainly not battle music.

For Sting -- who actually sings in Gaelic and English on the Chieftain's Mo Ghile Mear/Our Hero about "his firey blade engaged to lead/he'd break the bravest in the field" -- I thinking specifically of "Fields of Gold".  It's a nice pastoral love with old timey lyrics about making out in the fields of barley -- very easy for me to imagine a bard playing it at the pub with the old creepy guy who gives out adventure ideas.

On a mix CD I did for myself, "Fields of Gold" comes right after Rush "Closer to the Heart" as the "before" bad things happened in the Shire bit.

After that, "The Long Black Veil" falls, and things get gradually more foreboding ("All Along the Watchtower") and oppressively metalheaded until all hell breaks loss (lots of Metalicca, including the evil army marching in to triumph in "No Leaf Clover"!).  

Then there's period of failed heroic insurgency (more Irish trad) before Rush's "The Necromancer", which ends with:
"Steathily attacking, By-Tor slays his foe.
The men are free to run now, in labyrinths below.
The wraith of the Necromancer shadows through the sky
Another land to darken with evil prism eye!"

After that, time to move on to the next module with Metalicca "Roam", which just has some classic wandering adventurer stuff in it!
"And with dust in throat I crave/Only knowledge will I save/To the game you stay a slave.
Roamer, wanderer, nomad, vagabond: call me what you will
Anywhere I roam/Where I lay my head is home
I adapt to the unknown . . . By myself but not alone"

The other Sting song I was thinking of was "All This Time", which has some neat lyrics about an old English city: "The Romans built this place. They built a wall and a temple on the edge of the Empire garrison town. They lived and they died/They prayed to their gods/But the stone gods did not make a sound/And their empire crumbled/Till all that was left/Were the stones the workmen found.
All this time/The river flowed/Endlessly down to the sea"

BTW, "Fields of Gold" is on the album "Ten Summoners Tales", which really sounds a lot more D&Dish than it is, sadly.  

As for Mark Knopfler, it was this one particular solo album song about a night in Edinburgh that captured something cool of the medieval city.  I forget the name of the song.


----------



## Erithtotl (Nov 19, 2007)

*Amon Amarth*

I would like to nominate Amon Amarth as the D&D metal kings:

1. Songs almost exclusively about Vikings.
2. Their name comes from the Elvish name for Mount Doom.
3. They use Tolkein (and Ultima) runes frequently, including in their videos.
4. Most of their videos include a battle of some sort.

Amon Amarth - Cry of the Black Birds


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 19, 2007)

Erithtotl said:
			
		

> I would like to nominate Amon Amarth as the D&D metal kings:
> 
> 1. Songs almost exclusively about Vikings.
> 2. Their name comes from the Elvish name for Mount Doom.
> ...




Cool

Though I am getting a bit tired of Cookie Monster doing the vocals for every new metal band I come across.


----------



## interwyrm (Nov 19, 2007)

I highly recommend Korgoth of Barbaria. It is so metal d&d.

I'm not sure where one could find it, since only a pilot was aired on Adult Swim.

For those inclined to look, it's probably floating around on the internets somewhere.


----------



## Najo (Nov 19, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> Oh...you mean like this...
> 50 cent... http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/50 cent a .fake..




Sorry, the months of boot camp for non-violence and the life of drug dealing without being shot 9 times isn't just hardcore enough  

All you did is support the point of a previous life of violence and drugs is true.


This thread had all kinds of geek awesomeness and fun before you came through with your soap box and took Teflon's joking around too serious mr. no fun. Quit being a buzz kill and get with it. We forgive you this time. 

BACK TO THE METAL!!!

\m/   \m/


----------



## Sheltem (Nov 19, 2007)

Kae'Yoss said:
			
		

> Absolutely. Especially BG, having always had a strong fantasy theme (after all, they did a whole album on tolkien's Silmarillion. Nightfall in Middle Earth's still one of my all-time favourite albums. They even made a song about Raistlin).




If I had not known the song Soulforged to be about Raistlin, I would have had a hard time realizing it from listening only. But yep it BG are pretty good.


----------



## GreatLemur (Nov 19, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> *Gold Chain and Jogging Suit*
> 
> *Hard Knock Life*
> 
> *Chicago Badass*



Do you have any idea what a jackass you're making of yourself?


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 19, 2007)

GreatLemur said:
			
		

> Do you have any idea what a jackass you're making of yourself?




Meh  :\ 

*shrug*

I'll live with your negative opinion somehow


----------



## Asmor (Nov 19, 2007)

Erithtotl said:
			
		

> 2. Their name comes from the Elvish name for Mount Doom.




I don't know why, but any time anyone says that something is "Elvish" (outside of a gaming or fantasy story context), it makes me want to strangle them.

They could possibly redeem themselves in my eyes if "Amon Amarth" is something Tolkien actually wrote, and not just some translation from an "Elvish dictionary," but any respect gained in that would be lost by my intense annoyance re: Tolkien fanboys.

Actually, either way you cut it, their name is still a LotR reference, so I still hate them.


----------



## Asmor (Nov 19, 2007)

Najo said:
			
		

> Sorry, the months of boot camp for non-violence and the life of drug dealing without being shot 9 times isn't just hardcore enough
> 
> All you did is support the point of a previous life of violence and drugs is true.
> 
> ...




Agreed. Fir it or agin' it, please move the rap talk to a new thread. Heck, call it "D&D is so RAP."


----------



## Clavis (Nov 19, 2007)

Asmor said:
			
		

> Agreed. Fir it or agin' it, please move the rap talk to a new thread. Heck, call it "D&D is so RAP."




Didn't Anthrax and Public Enemy prove that rap could be F***ING METAL too?


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 19, 2007)

Clavis said:
			
		

> Didn't Anthrax and Public Enemy prove that rap could be F***ING METAL too?




Anthrax alone proved that Metal could be Rap as well ("I'm the Man")


----------



## Clavis (Nov 19, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Anthrax alone proved that Metal could be Rap as well ("I'm the Man")




Watch the beat!


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 19, 2007)

Does anyone remember *Armored Saint*?

Those guys were "D&D Metal" personified...







Their lead singer is the current frontman for Anthrax, any they did a scorching cover of _March of the Saint_


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 19, 2007)

Clavis said:
			
		

> Watch the beat!




I'M BAD!


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 19, 2007)

The helmets make me think of "A Song of Ice and Fire."


----------



## ShadowX (Nov 19, 2007)

haakon1 said:
			
		

> For me, D&D music is:
> - Metallica, old or new (from "Am I Evil?" to "No Leaf Clover", with tons of good stuff in between)
> - Zep (sure, sure, "Stairway" and "Ramble On", but also "Immigrant Song", "Battle of Evermore", "No Quarter", "Kashmir", and about a dozen more)
> - Rush ("The Necromancer" 20-minute opus on "Caress of Steel" and most of the album "Fairwell to Kings".  I'm convinced By-Tor and Snowdog were their D&D character names, but I might be nuts!)
> ...




I would just like to point out that "Am I Evil" is not a Metallica song.  It is in fact a song by the much superior Diamond Head.  Metallica ended up covering nearly the entire early discography of Diamond Head and Metallica's output at the beginning of their career also display the massive influence of Diamond Head.  Which is not to say that pre-Black Album Metallica does not merit the highest praise.


----------



## Gentlegamer (Nov 19, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Does anyone remember *Armored Saint*?
> 
> Those guys were "D&D Metal" personified...
> 
> ...



Ironically, I'd say Armored Saint's artwork is more D&D than [current] D&D's artwork.


----------



## Gentlegamer (Nov 19, 2007)

ShadowX said:
			
		

> I would just like to point out that "Am I Evil" is not a Metallica song.  It is in fact a song by the much superior Diamond Head.  Metallica ended up covering nearly the entire early discography of Diamond Head and Metallica's output at the beginning of their career also display the massive influence of Diamond Head.  Which is not to say that pre-Black Album Metallica does not merit the highest praise.



The band formerly known as Metallica also very happily let people assume that those covers were their own work back in the day.


----------



## Slife (Nov 19, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> The helmets make me think of "A Song of Ice and Fire."



The castle made me think that it's only a model.


----------



## +5 Keyboard! (Nov 19, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Heh, I love the articles reference to *the Temple of Elementary Evil*.
> 
> "This temple is dedicated to evil of Grades 1-3..."



Ya beat me to it, Teflon. That's hilarious journalism


----------



## Asmor (Nov 19, 2007)

Reminds me of a link on Fark a few years back where some local newspaper's website, when talking about the musical group NWA (which stands for something Eric's grandma wouldn't like), thought it stood for Northwest Airlines.

That's some fine journalism, Lou.


----------



## Griffith Dragonlake (Nov 19, 2007)

Gentlegamer said:
			
		

> Ironically, I'd say Armored Saint's artwork is more D&D than [current] D&D's artwork.



QFT


----------



## Griffith Dragonlake (Nov 19, 2007)

KISS' Music from The Elder is about as D&D an album as you can get….






			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> The basic plot of Music from “The Elder” involves the recruitment and training of a young hero (The Boy) by the Council of Elders who belong to the Order of the Rose, a mysterious group dedicated to combating evil.  The Boy is guided by an elderly caretaker named Morpheus.  The album’s lyrics describe the boy's feelings during his journey and training, as he overcomes his early doubts to become confident and self-assured.  The only spoken dialogue is at the end of the last track, “I.”  During the passage, Morpheus proclaims to the Elders that The Boy is ready to undertake his odyssey.



For AD&D, I created a secret society called The Order of the Rose which bears some similarity to the Harpers of FR but predates publication of FR.  I also created a race of Elven ancestors called “The Elder” who may or may have been inhabitants of some lost continent e.g. Atlantis, Lemuria, or Mu.

For 2nd Ed. AD&D, I created a psionic prestige paladin class.

For 3x … it has been a struggle.    :\


----------



## TarionzCousin (Nov 20, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Though I am getting a bit tired of Cookie Monster doing the vocals for every new metal band I come across.



Um, Cookie's gotta work, yo.

I'm glad no one has mentioned "Rivendell" by Rush. I'm a big Rush fan, but that song is *not *metal.


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Nov 20, 2007)

*Attack of the Killer WTFs*



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Their lead singer is the current frontman for Anthrax ....



For real? I thought John Bush quit Anthrax; I saw Belladonna fronting for them (again) during Judas Priest's _Angel of Retribution_ tour.

-Samir Asad: Zulkir of Euphoria


----------



## redmagerush (Nov 20, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Cool
> 
> Though I am getting a bit tired of Cookie Monster doing the vocals for every new metal band I come across.





I'll take the Cookie Monster vocals over all the metalcore bands with their Cobra Commander vocals any day of the week.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 20, 2007)

redmagerush said:
			
		

> I'll take the Cookie Monster vocals over all the metalcore bands with their Cobra Commander vocals any day of the week.




When you're right, you're right


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 20, 2007)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> For real? I thought John Bush quit Anthrax; I saw Belladonna fronting for them (again) during Judas Priest's _Angel of Retribution_ tour...




Seriously?

Massive step backwards. :\


----------



## haakon1 (Nov 20, 2007)

ShadowX said:
			
		

> I would just like to point out that "Am I Evil" is not a Metallica song.  It is in fact a song by the much superior Diamond Head.  Metallica ended up covering nearly the entire early discography of Diamond Head and Metallica's output at the beginning of their career also display the massive influence of Diamond Head.  Which is not to say that pre-Black Album Metallica does not merit the highest praise.




As the Commodore said on Old Trek: "You think I don't know that!"   

Not that I know much about Metallica, but I read the liner notes.


----------



## haakon1 (Nov 20, 2007)

TarionzCousin said:
			
		

> I'm glad no one has mentioned "Rivendell" by Rush. I'm a big Rush fan, but that song is *not *metal.




Not specifically, no, but it's one of the many good Rush D&Dish tunes.


----------



## caex (Nov 20, 2007)

TarionzCousin said:
			
		

> Um, Cookie's gotta work, yo.
> 
> I'm glad no one has mentioned "Rivendell" by Rush. I'm a big Rush fan, but that song is *not *metal.




How about the band Rivendell? They're not bad, they covered some of the songs from Tolkien's stories, such as:

The Old Walking Song
Misty Mountains
The Drinking Song

and others

Also, to that one guy, as a metalhead, I am tired (as are most metalheads) of the old, lame "cookie monster" crap that people use to describe growling.


----------



## interwyrm (Nov 20, 2007)

Umm.. how about Marcy Playground's "Cloak of Elvenkind"?

Aww, yeah... I know, it's not metal.

*shamed*


----------



## Teflon Billy (Nov 20, 2007)

caex said:
			
		

> Also, to that one guy, as a metalhead, I am tired (as are most metalheads) of the old, lame "cookie monster" crap that people use to describe growling.




I thought "Cookie Monster" was pretty evocative; gave a good idea of what I meant and all...think of it as a shorthand.

But really, what _should _I call it that would make you feel OK inside?

Growling? Pass. I think of "growling" as being a low sound rather than somebody yelling as loud as they can.

Seriously man..._C is for Cookie, and that's good enough for me_.

Judge for yourself...

Napalm Death

Cookie Monster

There is a reason the comparison keeps coming up


----------



## Asmor (Nov 20, 2007)

As someone who could probably pass as a metalhead to non-metalheads, I don't mind the cookie monster comparison at all. It's rather apt, actually.

And C is for Cookie could make an awesome death metal song... Of course, we're talking old school cookie monster here. Compare (and remember to read them in a cookie monster (or growl, if you prefer) voice in your head):

C IS FOR COOKIE!
THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME!

with

C IS FOR COOKIE!
A SOMETIMES FOOD!

Yeah, that second one definitely don't work.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 20, 2007)

haakon1 said:
			
		

> Not specifically, no, but it's one of the many good Rush D&Dish tunes.




Yup. My adolescence: Pretty much defined by Rush and D&D.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 20, 2007)

Asmor said:
			
		

> As someone who could probably pass as a metalhead to non-metalheads, I don't mind the cookie monster comparison at all. It's rather apt, actually.
> 
> And C is for Cookie could make an awesome death metal song... Of course, we're talking old school cookie monster here. Compare (and remember to read them in a cookie monster (or growl, if you prefer) voice in your head):
> 
> ...




"C for Cookie"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9rzMaAucI4


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Nov 20, 2007)

*Darkside ... Represent!*





​


----------



## Thurbane (Nov 20, 2007)

*Bands by class (and PrC)*

Barbarian - Manowar
Bard - Kings X
Cleric - Candlemass (or Armored Saint)
Druid - (?)
Favored Soul - Judas Priest
Fighter - Slayer
Monk - Loudness
Paladin - Stryper   
Ranger - Nightranger (?)
Rogue - (?)
Sorcerer - (?)
Warlock - Black Sabbath
Wizard - Grand Magus

-----

Frenzied Berserker - Rage
Dread Pirate - Running Wild


...feel free to add and update the list...


----------



## Thurbane (Nov 20, 2007)

caex said:
			
		

> Also, to that one guy, as a metalhead, I am tired (as are most metalheads) of the old, lame "cookie monster" crap that people use to describe growling.



Oh come on now, as a metalhead of 20+ years, I can totally see and accept the cookie monster analogy. I'm not much of a death metal or grindcore fan myself (more of a thrash, power metal and stoner metal fan), but I do like Sepultura and Fear Factory.

There was a point where the grindcore and black metal fans would look down their nose at the rest of us for not being "extreme" enough - if they had to face the fact that their beloved grunters sounded like a certain blue fuzzy muppet, so be it.


----------



## Asmor (Nov 20, 2007)

Thurbane said:
			
		

> Barbarian - Manowar
> Bard - Kings X
> Cleric - Candlemass (or Armored Saint)
> Druid - (?)
> ...




Sorcerer - Lords of Acid.

Most fetish-friendly band I can think of off the top of my head.


----------



## Prince of Happiness (Nov 20, 2007)

Asmor said:
			
		

> Sorcerer - Lords of Acid.
> 
> Most fetish-friendly band I can think of off the top of my head.




Adam & The Ants, "Beat My Guest" or "Whip In My Valise" or "Rubber People."


----------



## caex (Nov 21, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I thought "Cookie Monster" was pretty evocative; gave a good idea of what I meant and all...think of it as a shorthand.
> 
> But really, what _should _I call it that would make you feel OK inside?
> 
> ...





Most death metal growlers don't "yell as loud as they can", that is what most metalcore singers do.



			
				Thurbane said:
			
		

> Oh come on now, as a metalhead of 20+ years, I can totally see and accept the cookie monster analogy. I'm not much of a death metal or grindcore fan myself (more of a thrash, power metal and stoner metal fan), but I do like Sepultura and Fear Factory.
> 
> There was a point where the grindcore and black metal fans would look down their nose at the rest of us for not being "extreme" enough - if they had to face the fact that their beloved grunters sounded like a certain blue fuzzy muppet, so be it.




I'm sorry if I don't find amusement in an overdone, stupid thing that is mainly used by people that are uninformed about metal.


----------



## caex (Nov 21, 2007)

sorry about the double post


----------



## Thurbane (Nov 21, 2007)

caex said:
			
		

> I'm sorry if I don't find amusement in an overdone, stupid thing that is mainly used by people that are uninformed about metal.



That's fine. As someone who has listened to metal for more than 2 decades, I still find it funny. Same when people say that Tom Araya sounds like a wounded cat, and Slayer are just about my fave band ever. Different strokes for different folks.   

I still mercilessly mock my friends who are into Techno and Trance about how crap their music is, and vice versa with them about my "angry white boy" music.


----------



## Thurbane (Nov 21, 2007)

Asmor said:
			
		

> Sorcerer - Lords of Acid.
> 
> Most fetish-friendly band I can think of off the top of my head.



Hey now, not all Sorcerers are into that weirdo nipple piercing stuff like that freak Hennet!   

Lords of Acid, great band though.


----------



## Clavis (Nov 21, 2007)

Thurbane said:
			
		

> Hey now, not all Sorcerers are into that weirdo nipple piercing stuff like that freak Hennet!




Hey, I've known A LOT of people with pierced nipples, and they weren't weir-..... um,...
Well, at least they were really fun at parties!


----------



## Lanefan (Nov 21, 2007)

Thurbane said:
			
		

> Barbarian - Manowar
> Bard - Kings X
> Cleric - Candlemass (or Armored Saint)
> Druid - (?)



Jethro Tull?







> Favored Soul - Judas Priest
> Fighter - Slayer
> Monk - Loudness
> Paladin - Stryper
> ...



They just line up to claim the Fighter role: *Thor, WWIII, Saxon, Omen*...but then again, every party can use more fighters! 

I've never heard of Grand Magus, but they'd better be mighty good to knock *Dio* out of the Wizard role; I can't imagine anyone else there.

Dare I chuck in Yngwie Malmsteen for Sorcerer?

Lanefan


----------



## Drowbane (Nov 21, 2007)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Judge for yourself...
> 
> Napalm Death
> 
> ...




Even better... start Napalm Death and then about 27seconds in... hit the Cookie Monster link.

Mwahahahaha


----------



## Aris Dragonborn (Nov 21, 2007)

Thurbane said:
			
		

> Barbarian - Manowar
> Bard - Kings X
> Cleric - Candlemass (or Armored Saint)
> Druid - (?)
> ...



Just some specific songs...

Barbarian - Immigrant Song (Led Zeppelin)
Bard - Ramble On (Led Zeppelin)
Druid - Of Wolf And Man (Metallica)
Fighter - Killing Is My Business...And Business Is Good, Peace Sells (Megadeth)
Ranger - Freebird (Lynyrd Skynyrd) - and I just wanted to point out that Night Ranger was an 80's rock band best known for the song 'Sister Christian'.  
Sorcerer/Wizard/Warlock - Five Magics (Megadeth)


> Paladin - Stryper



Curse your black heart for getting that song stuck in my head!












I'm always there for you...I'll always stand by you...


----------



## Aeolius (Nov 21, 2007)

It's not exactly on topic, but all this talk of growling reminds me of the "King of the Groaners" - Mahlathini





My wife listens to country music. I listen to music from other countries.


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Nov 21, 2007)

Aeolius said:
			
		

> I listen to music from other countries.




Me, too.


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Nov 21, 2007)

Aris Dragonborn said:
			
		

> Barbarian - Immigrant Song (Led Zeppelin)




I must say that I like the Demons and Wizards version better. (Or the Snow White version ;-))


----------



## Asmor (Nov 21, 2007)

Drowbane said:
			
		

> Even better... start Napalm Death and then about 27seconds in... hit the Cookie Monster link.
> 
> Mwahahahaha




Heh, funny. My fiancée says, "That's ****ed up."


----------



## Achan hiArusa (Nov 21, 2007)

Sorry, I save the heavy metal and rap for modern day games (Public Enemy is really good fighting music for Vampire or Werewolf).  When I run a D&D game its Celtic (Queen's Gambit, Bedlam Bards), Pirate (Jolly Rogers, Bilge Pumps), and Baroque (J.S. Bach) music if I play music at all.


----------



## Achan hiArusa (Nov 21, 2007)

Imaro said:
			
		

> That said, you could replace Bitches/Ho's with wenches and you've got a thieves guild vs. assasins guild based campaign right there with factions seeking to control the Black Lotus trade in the city.  Or, it could easily be a mercenary type campaign where you're hired by a crimelord to subdue sections of a lawless city in his name while fighting against other competing crimelords.  Better yet a paladin who has gathered a group to bring equality and peace to a crimeridden city...but how far can you go (must you go?) before you become just as feared, violent and vicious as the ones you struggle against?  Can you have morals and ethics in this environment or must they be discarded in pursuit of your goals.




I will say though I love the campaign ideas.  Reminds me of a game (2nd Edition D&D) a friend of mine ran in college where we were thieves in the middle of guild split and he required all our alignments to have "evil" in them.  We ended up doing a mansion invasion and putting ourselves in the lion's den of the opposition's gambling house just so we could break the bank and torch the place.  I played a Lawful Evil Assassin (which was a port from 1st Edition with the poisoning abilities of a Dark Sun Bard) who did his best to minimize needless killing (i.e. I left children, servants, and other noncombatants alone).  So it was see opposing guild thief, kill opposing guild thief, and take his stuff.


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Nov 21, 2007)

Achan hiArusa said:
			
		

> Sorry, I save the heavy metal and rap for modern day games (Public Enemy is really good fighting music for Vampire or Werewolf).  When I run a D&D game its Celtic (Queen's Gambit, Bedlam Bards), Pirate (Jolly Rogers, Bilge Pumps), and Baroque (J.S. Bach) music if I play music at all.




I usually don't play anything with vocals when I run D&D. But there's enough instrumental material to see me through a dozen adventure paths.


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Nov 21, 2007)

*White Wolf ... Black Steel*



			
				Achan hiArusa said:
			
		

> Public Enemy is really good fighting music for Vampire or Werewolf ....






​


----------



## haakon1 (Nov 21, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> Yup. My adolescence: Pretty much defined by Rush and D&D.




"Philosophers and ploughmen, each must know their wont".

Ya just don't hear that sort of thing often enough outside of Rush.

Speaking of Rivendell (and Closer to the Heart, which I just quoted) as being an obviously D&Dish song, I've been thinking of the many Zep songs that are so obvious it's not worth mentioning.  Stuff like "No Quarter" and "The Battle of Evermore" . . . but even normal Zep songs "Over the Hills and Far Away" and "Tangerine" give me D&Dish feelings: "she is my lady, she is my queen, and now a thousand years between" -- how could that be about anybody but the Queen of the elves in Tolkien?  

But heck, there was a time when even Blues Traveller doing "The Mountains Win Again" made me think of D&D.


----------



## Pants (Nov 22, 2007)

Gentlegamer said:
			
		

> Ironically, I'd say Armored Saint's artwork is more D&D than [current] D&D's artwork.



Hey! I don't see any mullets, bowl-cuts, or Fawcett-hair!

It ain't D&D unless it looks like the bastard child of the 70's and 80's! 



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Seriously?
> 
> Massive step backwards. :\



IMO Belladonna was great when he was on, he was terrible when he wasn't. His voice added something 'different' to the often stereotypical metal sound.

Besides, AFAIR, Belladonna isn't fronting for them anymore either. They're looking for a new singer now.



			
				haakon1 said:
			
		

> "Philosophers and ploughmen, each must know their wont".
> 
> Ya just don't hear that sort of thing often enough outside of Rush.



That's because Rush is like, the greatest band EVAR. 



> Speaking of Rivendell (and Closer to the Heart, which I just quoted) as being an obviously D&Dish song, I've been thinking of the many Zep songs that are so obvious it's not worth mentioning.  Stuff like "No Quarter" and "The Battle of Evermore" . . . but even normal Zep songs "Over the Hills and Far Away" and "Tangerine" give me D&Dish feelings: "she is my lady, she is my queen, and now a thousand years between" -- how could that be about anybody but the Queen of the elves in Tolkien?
> 
> But heck, there was a time when even Blues Traveller doing "The Mountains Win Again" made me think of D&D.



Some Savatage songs make me think of D&D ('The Dungeons are Calling' primarily).


----------



## Gentlegamer (Nov 22, 2007)

Achan hiArusa said:
			
		

> When I run a D&D game its Celtic (Queen's Gambit, Bedlam Bards), Pirate (Jolly Rogers, Bilge Pumps), and Baroque (J.S. Bach) music if I play music at all.



Wagner works quite well, too.


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Nov 22, 2007)

Pants said:
			
		

> Some Savatage songs make me think of D&D ('The Dungeons are Calling' primarily).




Or "The Whip".


----------



## GrayIguana (Nov 22, 2007)

Slife said:
			
		

> Enough said




Is that fungus-man playing air-guitar?   I'm guessing "Stairway to Heaven"


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Nov 22, 2007)

*Sesame Street: Enter the Abyss!*





​


----------



## Matthew_ (Nov 23, 2007)

Yeah, _Metallica_ and _Dungeons & Dragons_ were pretty much synonymous for me back in the days of 2e. As I recall, several adventures in the Treasure Maps Supplement bore the names of Metallica songs: _Enter Sandman_, _Ride the Lightning_ and _The Four Horseman_, as I recall. In any case, 'Kill 'em all' probably describes most dungeon crawls...

Oh yeah, and 3e is power metal, if it's any kind of metal at all...


----------



## Pants (Nov 23, 2007)

Matthew_ said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, and 3e is power metal, if it's any kind of metal at all...



My games are pure thrash...

And no, I didn't misspell that


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Nov 27, 2007)

*Dëthkløk, Über Alles!*





Here is my new campaign soundtrack ....

​


----------



## D.Shaffer (Nov 27, 2007)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> Here is my new campaign soundtrack



...Considering the antics of my group, the Lost Vikings is remarkably fitting.

We come upon a witch who takes us in
To let us share her mighty fire
She asks of us our story and we lie and say
We ride around for hire
She asks us if we'd like to have her map
And points us in some direction
But we are far too proud and strong so we keep silent
And ignore her suggestion

Lost but still we ride
Search until we die
All the fault of pride
The gods weep in the night


----------



## Silent Cartographer (Nov 27, 2007)

Well, since we *all know* that 4th Edition = WoW; that just makes D&D EVEN MORE METAL!!!   

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/movies.html#l70etc

(L70ETC _I Am Murloc!_ vids for those who haven't already seen this...)


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Nov 28, 2007)

*MMORPGageddon!*



			
				Silent Cartographer said:
			
		

> Well, since we *all know* that 4th Edition = WoW; that just makes D&D EVEN MORE METAL!!!



I pity the *FOOL* who makes this comparison.    

-Samir


----------



## Thurbane (Dec 9, 2007)

Came across this clip while I was YouTubing, and had to post it here...I laughed so hard I cried...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkysjcs5vFU


----------



## Captain Howdy (Dec 9, 2007)

Thurbane said:
			
		

> Came across this clip while I was YouTubing, and had to post it here...I laughed so hard I cried...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkysjcs5vFU




Killswitch Engage cover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsiqtGnpU1w

(Way awesome)


----------



## haakon1 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Heart - "These Dreams"*

D&D is so soft rock . . . I heard an old "Heart" song the other day on the radio . . . seems to fit, oddly.

"In a wood full of princes, freedom is a kiss
But the prince hides his face from dreams in the mist
These dreams go on when I close my eyes
Every second of the night I live another life"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRF1QyHtM1I

Which also makes me think of Fleetwood Mac doing "Rhiannon", which sounds to me like it's written about a druid with the "Shadow Dancer" Prestige Class.    

"She is like a cat in the dark
And then she is the darkness"


----------



## Clavis (Dec 10, 2007)

haakon1 said:
			
		

> D&D is so soft rock . . . I heard an old "Heart" song the other day on the radio . . . seems to fit, oddly.
> 
> "In a wood full of princes, freedom is a kiss
> But the prince hides his face from dreams in the mist
> ...




My player's PCs would probably have their horses sodomize that Prince, then urinate on his corpse. Then the PCs would go try to seduce the Prince's wife with a story about how they bravely tried to save his life from a pack of horny Ogres.

The PCs are THAT F***ING METAL!


----------



## haakon1 (Dec 10, 2007)

*A Mix Tape of D&D Music*

D&D is so classic rock . . . and metal . . . and Irish trad.

Here's my mix of D&D music, telling a story from beginning to end, like a symphony, evne with songs referring back to other songs (Fairwell to Kings contains an air from Closer to the Heart, and the change of bands and then back again works as a reference for the rest, I think).    

Shall I even ask if you dig the storyline?  It seems clear to me.

I'm listing the performers, not the authors -- yes, I know Jimi didn't write Watch Tower, etc.

1) Closer to the Heart = Rush
2) Fields of Gold = Sting
3) The Long Black Veil = The Chieftains
4) A Fairwell to Kings = Rush
5) All Along the Watch Tower = Jimi Hendrix
6) Call of Ktulu = Metalicca (with San Francisco Orchestra)
7) The Thing That Should Not Be = Metalicca (with San Francisco Orchestra)
8) Am I Evil? = Metalicca
9) One Leaf Clover = Metalicca (with San Francisco Orchestra)
10) Our Hero = The Chieftains
11) The Battle of Evermore = Led Zeppelin
12) The Foggy Dew = The Chieftains
13) No Quarter = Led Zeppelin
14) The Necromancer = Rush
15) Roam = Metalicca

I suppose you could right additional story arcs with songs like "Over the Hills and Far Away", "Kashmir", "Stairway", and "Tangerine" about a trip to visit the elvish elders . . . 

What to do with "Immigrant Song", though?


----------



## Thurbane (Dec 10, 2007)

haakon1 said:
			
		

> D&D is so soft rock . . . I heard an old "Heart" song the other day on the radio . . . seems to fit, oddly.
> 
> "In a wood full of princes, freedom is a kiss
> But the prince hides his face from dreams in the mist
> ...



I used to have a massive crush on the sisters from Heart.   

If any one song sums up D&D for me, as someone already said, it has to be "The Dungeons are Calling" by Savatage...

...although several Manowar and Blind Guardian songs come close...


----------



## Asmor (Dec 10, 2007)

Clavis said:
			
		

> My player's PCs would probably have their horses sodomize that Prince, then urinate on his corpse. Then the PCs would go try to seduce the Prince's wife with a story about how they bravely tried to save his life from a pack of horny Ogres.
> 
> The PCs are THAT F***ING METAL!




My PCs would probably sodomize the prince's horses, then have their horses urinate on the prince's wife, then try to seduce the prince's dead grandmother with a story about how they bravely tried to save a pack of horny ogres from him.

My PCs are THAT [bleep]ING METAL.


----------



## imurphy943 (Sep 18, 2011)

Kae'Yoss said:


> You can play M4now4r, I'll stick to my old M3tallica albums and stuff like that.




I stick to B1ack sabbath and and Led '0'ppelin.


----------



## Dausuul (Sep 18, 2011)

imurphy943 said:


> I stick to B1ack sabbath and and Led '0'ppelin.




For this thread, it would have to be Rob Zombie.


----------



## imurphy943 (Sep 18, 2011)

Dausuul said:


> For this thread, it would have to be Rob Zombie.




Led Zeppelin seemed more 0e (assuming metallica is 3 and sabbath is 1- I don't necessarily equate them.) actually, I don't want that much to do with 4e, smacktalking it or playing it, but I love manowar as gaming music. It gets the adrenalin and d&d lyrics well. Amon Amarth would also be really cool, except I can't understand a word of the vocals. It's a shame, too, cause they kick ass.
I definitely like armored saint, if only for the art. Hammerfell's pretty good.

Led Zeppelin remains one of my favorites, and it usually fits well with non-combat situations. Black sabbath is more the 1e of metal than it is 'music that goes well with 1e', I don't use it very much with my group.
I like to use 'orchid', 'embryo', 'solitude', and 'planet caravan', but they aren't really the typical sabbath music so I'm not recommending the band as a whole for gaming music.

I like cowboys from hell occasionally, even though it isn't fantasy specific.
Rob zombie works well for antihero (not to be confused with flawed hero) moments- my favorite remains, and yes it betrays my only passing affiliation with the band, 'Dragula'. I CAN NEver DIE.

I can say with certainty that Dragonforce is not my voice.

Iron Maiden is good.
I never really liked deep purple- smoke on the water is overrated.
I like to slip in some Hendrix (Voodoo child, Spanish castle magic).

The Sword: meh, but I haven't listened to a whole lot yet.
    I don't know that I need more bands that I have to root through to find the
    goods.
Metallica's good, but not really D&D to me.
Dio's pretty good.

And D&D IS so metal.


----------



## S'mon (Sep 18, 2011)

Fun thread Necro!  My current Wilderlands 4e game is very much inspired by '70s/'80s Heavy Metal.  Which I have just realised I never explained properly to the players... *eep*


----------



## Asmo (Sep 18, 2011)

Epic!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nna0-SQPH2o&feature=related]Blind Guardian - Lord of the Rings Live - YouTube[/ame]

Asmo


----------



## S'mon (Sep 18, 2011)

S'mon said:


> Fun thread Necro!  My current Wilderlands 4e game is very much inspired by '70s/'80s Heavy Metal.  Which I have just realised I never explained properly to the players... *eep*




BTW the not-very-Grandma-friendly  ad for 'Grimm's Fairy Tales' which in recent weeks is usually at the top of ENW & rpgnet pages, featuring a buxom mermaid being attacked by an octopus, certainly seems very 'Metal'.


----------



## brewdus (Sep 18, 2011)

I recently ran a Pathfinder adventure heavily inspired by the Black Sabbath album "Headless Cross"! It was very metal! They even went to Hell!


----------



## Dausuul (Sep 18, 2011)

imurphy943 said:


> Led Zeppelin seemed more 0e (assuming metallica is 3 and sabbath is 1- I don't necessarily equate them.)




Nope, for this thread it's Rob Zombie, or Cannibal Corpse. Perhaps a little alt-rock with Dead Can Dance. Grateful Dead if you want to go classic.


----------



## Asmo (Sep 18, 2011)

Or if you want to go really heavy metal, why not Grave Digger! 

Asmo


----------



## Saracenus (Sep 18, 2011)

*Red Fang FTW!*

Here is my vote, Portland, OR metal band *Red Fang*:
Video: Red Fang - Prehistoric Dog







RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGH! Nice dress Gandolf!


----------



## Remus Lupin (Sep 19, 2011)

Holy thread necromancy, Batman!


----------



## imurphy943 (Sep 19, 2011)

Dausuul said:


> Nope, for this thread it's Rob Zombie, or Cannibal Corpse. Perhaps a little alt-rock with Dead Can Dance. Grateful Dead if you want to go classic.




I meant in that Led Zeppelin came first, and is radically different from our current definition of metal.

P.S.: I always wanted to do a dungeonland style adventure, set entirely to Dead songs e.g. cosmic charlie, china cat sunflower, what's become of the baby


----------



## Thunderfoot (Sep 19, 2011)

May the Headmaster of the Metal School chime in? 

Led Zepplin, though heavy and very much an influence on many later HM bands were themselves just a heavy rock hippie group.  HM began with Black Sabbath...  Yes, Steppenwolf may have coined the phrase and Led Zep were crowned the "Hammer of the gods", but neither are really true metal acts soup to nuts.  Sabbath had it all, from the beginning, including scaring the ba-jezus out of their audiences just by playing music (or as their former manager said when they opened for the Doors - "The crowd began booing after the first song, reviled and recoiled in horror and then began leaving.  That's a real accomplishment, getting someone to leave a Doors concert."

That being said - 4e is Slipknot...
OD&D - Sabbath
1e - Judas Priest
2e - Iron Maiden
3e - Metallica/Anthrax/Slayer/Megadeath (they were all ground breaking)

School's out - forever ....   or so sayth the Cooper.


----------



## S'mon (Sep 19, 2011)

Thunderfoot said:


> M
> 2e - Iron Maiden




Odd, the Irons are my favourite* Metal band, yet 'Angry Mothers from Heck' 2e is my least favourite edition of D&D  

*My current Swords & Sorcery 4e campaign Southlands has a very strong Iron Maiden influence, eg I'll often play[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDd-GXkMrJs"] Run to the Hills [/ame] while working on the Red Altanian vs White Nerathi conflict.


----------



## imurphy943 (Sep 20, 2011)

Thunderfoot said:


> Led Zepplin, though heavy and very much an influence on many later HM bands were themselves just a heavy rock hippie group. HM began with Black Sabbath... Yes, Steppenwolf may have coined the phrase and Led Zep were crowned the "Hammer of the gods", but neither are really true metal acts soup to nuts. Sabbath had it all, from the beginning, including scaring the ba-jezus out of their audiences just by playing music (or as their former manager said when they opened for the Doors - "The crowd began booing after the first song, reviled and recoiled in horror and then began leaving. That's a real accomplishment, getting someone to leave a Doors concert."




True, but from my point of view, OD&D is extremely different from what we now think of as D&D, and AD&D was where they actually got big, went beyond pamphlets with passable art, and started getting the religious activists riled up.

Of course, this is speaking from my point of view as a dabbler in everything rock from Chuck Berry to Alice in Chains, so I don't expect my opinion to be shared.


----------



## Thunderfoot (Sep 20, 2011)

imurphy943 said:


> True, but from my point of view, OD&D is extremely different from what we now think of as D&D, and AD&D was where they actually got big, went beyond pamphlets with passable art, and started getting the religious activists riled up.
> 
> Of course, this is speaking from my point of view as a dabbler in everything rock from Chuck Berry to Alice in Chains, so I don't expect my opinion to be shared.



Oh, I neither fault you for your POV or reasons. I was just putting us all back on the metal page. 
If you wanted to go over arching musical influence and what they would represent I would go with:
OD&D - Gregorian plainchant (the real monophonic stuff not the updated modern versions)
1e - early Baroque - charming and sweet but not quite there
2e - Smooth Jazz - all the intricacies of regular Jazz without the dirty stuff
3e - Hard Rock - widely accepted by a wide audience but a little over the top
3.5 - Progressive Metal - less accepted by the masses because it gets complicated
4e - The Wiggles....or Pop music - mass produced to pull in those that otherwise wouldn't listen and in smaller bite sized doses.

(I'm a former professional musician and music producer, metal is my favorite but hardly my only dalliance - producers need to keep their ear on the ground at all times.  )

My real feelings about D&D and metal are that they have very little in common outside of the combat.  I use classical soundtracks and historical music to back up my games, modern stuff reminds me of why 80s fantasy movies are less appealing than the modern stuff. (i.e. Ladyhawke was a great movie but the soundtrack, though written and performed by Alan Parsons, who is an incredible musician and composer, just makes me bristle with uuggghh)


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