# Carrion Crown AP (Savage Stampede) - OOC



## HolyMan (Nov 11, 2010)

*Character Gene found*  here 

I was wondering since we are getting a heads up about this adventure coming out and it looks like something people around here might play I was wondering.

What if we got to discussing who would like to play who would like to run it and all that stuff. Like if we got 10 people in here talking about it you would then have two DMs and 4 players for each group. 

I guess I am always looking for different ways getting games started around here. And with advance warning you we would have time to get something set so when the AP hits the mail box that night an IC could start up.

Here's what I found out about it on paizo and I asked when they were going to release the Player's Guide. _NOTE: Reply PG not avaiable till issue #1 possible Feb. release instead of Jan._



> We've just officially announced the Carrion Crown Adventure Path, which will run from January through June 2011.
> 
> The Cult of the Whispering Way weaves a wide-ranging conspiracy throughout the horror-tinged lands of Ustalav aimed at freeing the Lich King Tar-Baphon, better known as the Whispering Tyrant, from his eternal prison in the dungeon of Gallowspire. Their debased rites and malicious schemes set werewolf against vampire, ghost against terror from beyond time and space in a thrilling campaign that touches upon themes of classic horror and dark swords and sorcery!
> 
> ...


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## HolyMan (Nov 11, 2010)

MY status btw:

I think by FEB I should be down from DMing 13 games (now), to about DMing 7 games as most are one offs and not campagins.

So (and again no tossing characters at me) I will be pre-ordering the game for running it. But wouldn't mind playing off course.

HM


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm in to play, but not to DM.  No money for APs right now.


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## ghostcat (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm also up for playing but not DM'ing.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 11, 2010)

Hmmm, well its a while off.  I'd love to play, but assuming real life is not too stressful I would be prepared to DM.  Hopefully by that time I'll be back in the swing as a PBP DM.


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## jackslate45 (Nov 11, 2010)

I have been playing in the Rise of Runelords AP (with pathfinder characters...so much fun), and have really enjoyed it so far.  I would be interested in playing/DMing it.

Also, Lich King will be name changed to something else if I DM...


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## GandalfMithrandir (Nov 11, 2010)

I will be picking it up at my FLGS (most likely) and so won't really be able to play in it, and I will most likely be too bust to DM it, but I will lurk in the thread(s) once in a while.


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## HolyMan (Nov 12, 2010)

Great to hear from you all. I am excited about this AP and have alredy thought of a character, so I am happy to see others may wish to DM.

@ AFg truly it isn't as far off as you think. 2-1/2 months?? with one of those being a major holiday month I think it would be cool to truly get characters established.

Mowgli ran a small adventure before starting his AP and it got all us characters together and into character before the grand adventure was to start. And this being a game with ghost, werewolves, and ghouls I would think maybe starting at lvl2 not a bad idea.

Even if we didn't have a pre-adventure we would have time to cement backgrounds (Something I wish happened in my AoW-TDL game). And go a little different. An extensive background between two players (maybe there characters are siblings) would bring alot to the game. 

So I would like to go over concepts with people, 

First off (and please even if you want to DM join in this):

*What would be your first character choice for this type of game?* Not looking so much for a build here, but more of a undead hunter seeking a certain foe or necromancer looking into becoming the next Lich-King, the peaseant who got mixed up in things way over his head. You can tack on a build if you wish even throw in a PrC if you like but not nessacary.

I think if we start talking about a few things ahead of time before you kno it the AP will be here and we will be ready for it.

HM

_


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## Walking Dad (Nov 12, 2010)

Ustalav is a pretty cold region right? Perhaps finally a chance to play an arctic druid (or maybe a bear shaman). That would be my regional idea.

On the other hand, I like the implied monster theme in the fluff so maybe a shapeshift ranger (diluted Lykan blood) or a Jekyll/Hide like alchemist with a fond for mutagens.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 12, 2010)

If I end up playing rather than Dming I'm thinking Witch Hunter, a sort of renaissance man with a high level of education.  Mechanically maybe an Inquisitor?  I've not really taken a good look at the class, but it might fit.


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## jackslate45 (Nov 12, 2010)

Paladin or Cleric (depending on group make up) of Desna who heard about the revival in his dreams, and decided to put a stop to it.


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## ghostcat (Nov 12, 2010)

I'd like to recycle one of my characters from a stalled game:

Female Human Oracle
Male Dwarf Ranger

Although I would probably keep the race, class and background and rework the rest.


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## rangerjohn (Nov 12, 2010)

I would be interested in playing.  As for what, to go with what has been mentioned prior, either an arcane caster or rogue.


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## HolyMan (Nov 13, 2010)

I have read up on the setting and would probably play a martial type out to save the people of the land.

 Someone from another country who "was" passing through but when he learned of the way things are and how people have to live in fear he would want to see if he could make a difference. Maybe he has fallen in love with a local.

Ok everyone the next thing:

What would you think of instead of playing the "Heroes of Good come to slay those who are evil." angle you could take and play this as...

*Your all part of a rival group and want to release the Lich King, before the Whispering Way cult.*

I think WD's character would fit with something like that  

As you discover the means by which the cult plans to free the Whispering Tyrant you instead steal those secerts and head to free him and reap the rewards he will bestow on you. With that change what would your concept be? Your over-all character goal?

HM

_


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## Orius (Nov 13, 2010)

Unfortunately, it looks like this is PF, and I'm unfamiliar with the rules.  Granted it is based on 3e, but there are little details here and there I don't know about.  I'd like to do more PbP gaming, but there seems to be a good deal of PF and 4e which I'm unfamiliar with.  Most of the 3e stuff seems to be filled, the stuff with openings seem to be somewhat long-running so I'd have to read pages of stuff here and in the actual play threads, and I have trouble concentrating after several pages of posts.  I'd like to run my own games eventually, but I'd like to get a feel for different DM's games first.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 13, 2010)

Orius: Pathfinder is very similar to 3.5, it very easy to get to grips with I'd recommend taking a look at the PFSRD HERE, its so thorough you really don't need to buy any books to play or DM.  Of course I would encourage you to buy Paizo products because they are a great company which needs us to support their products so they can go on doing an excellent job.

HM:  I'm not keen on the evil angle myself, it would probably require significant deviation from the AP as written and I tend to find evil games have a greater tendency to encourage poor player behavior.


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## HolyMan (Nov 13, 2010)

Players don't need encouragement for poor behavior, LOL 

And it need not be an evil game it could be more neutral or self serving. Your group could want to release the lich-king for any reasons. 

Perhaps you wish to destroy him personally for something he did to your family in the past. My angle was you just didn't want to stop the cult just beat them to it.

HM

_


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## rangerjohn (Nov 13, 2010)

While I would prefer a standard campaign, I suppose either of the roles I mentioned would work.  Rogue out for himself, arcane caster out for power.


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## ghostcat (Nov 14, 2010)

I too would prefer a standard game. Neither of my two characters would fit the "out for your self" scenario. That said a Bone Oracle would fit nicely.


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## jackslate45 (Nov 14, 2010)

switch gods to the god of death (Gorzreh) or god of War (Gorum), bring the Lich to death finally, or to bring the war back to the Lich.


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## HolyMan (Nov 14, 2010)

I would probably keep the same crunch character I have been looking at but change his goal from protecting those that live in Ustalav to cutting himself out a small kingdom in the country.

 He would see how the people have no true leader and perhaps want to take over a small community to start and then release the lich king and serve at his side.

OK Next question: *Since this is in Golarion has anyone looked into the PrC's of that world or the feats?*

Harrower
Low Templar
Pathfinder Chronicler
Red Mantis Assassin
Shackles Pirate

Anyone looking at the firearms section and wondering what silver bullets cost?

HM
_


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 15, 2010)

I have a cleric of Pharasma kicking around that needs to see the light of day.  Her name is Girri, she's Neutral, a gypsy, and interested in fortune-telling and dreams and undead.  She has some Golarion-specialized gear (bladed scarf, for example) that I'm itching to use.
[sblock=Girri Character Sheet]Girri

Cleric 1
Age: 26
Height: 5' 10"
Weight: 125 lbs
Eyes: Sapphire
Hair: Bittersweet Chocolate
Skin: Wind-chaffed and pale

STR: 10
DEX: 14
CON: 10
INT: 14
WIS: 14
CHA: 14

HP: 8 
AC: 15 (10 base + 3 armor + 2 dex)
- Flat-footed AC: 13
- Touch AC: 12
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30
BAB: +0

Attack:
- Bladed Scarf +0, 1d6, 19-20/2, 10 ft reach
- Dagger +2, 1d4, 19-20/2, thrown
- Dagger +0, 1d4, 19-20/2, melée

FORT: +2 (2 base + 0 con)
REFL: +2 (0 base + 2 dex)
WILL: +4 (2 base + 2 wis)
More Crunch 
Feats: 
- Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bladed Scarf
- Spell Focus (necromancy)
- Varisian Tattoo (necromancy)

Trait: Drug Addict, "Shiver," [CotCT PG]

Skills:
- Diplomacy +6 (4 ranks + 2 Cha)
- Heal +5 (3 ranks +2 Wis)
- Knowledge (local) +6 (4 ranks + 2 Int)
- Knowledge (nob/Roy) +5 (3 ranks + 2 Int)
- Knowledge (planes) +3 (1 rank + 2 Int)
- Knowledge (religion) +3 (1 rank + 2 Int)
- Spellcraft +6 (4 ranks + 2 Int)
- Profession (fortune teller) +6 (4 ranks + 2 Wis) [DM Gift]

Languages:
- Common
- Varisian
- Thassilonian
- Chelish

Spells Prepared:
- Orisons: Detect Magic, Light, Guidance
- Level 1: Doom, Sanctuary, *Cure Light Wounds

Deity: Pharasma
Domains: Knowledge and Healing
Alignment: Neutral (channels positive energy)

Equipment:
- Studded Leather 
- Bladed Scarf
- Dagger x2
- Backpack
- Scarf, pocketed
- Harpy Musk
- Holy Symbol, wood
- Waterskin
- Entertainer's Outfit

Encumbrance: light (31 lb carried)
Money: 25 gp 

Combat 
Girri prefers to stay in the middle of the pack. She blends in better in the middle of a crowd and isn't as open to attack from her vulnerable front and rear. Girri's low AC, her current weakness after having only recently kicked an addiction to Shiver, and also having suffered a round of Consumption this past winter would indicate that Girri is not (currently) best-suited to be a front-line fighter. Girri uses her daggers from a distance when possible, preferring to throw rather than stab. She uses her bladed scarf as a reach weapon whenever possible. Girri will heal a comrade who falls in battle, but that comrade better be a damned good friend and she may wait until it is safe for her to manuever. If need be, Girri will cast sanctuary upon herself before delving into the fray to heal a wounded or disabled friend. Once Girri has given her loyalty to a friend under no circumstance will Girri leave a comrade to die alone. She. Will. Not. Do. It. Girri may hide out of sight and wait for the enemy to leave the area before going back to fetch a dead or dying friend, but she WILL go back and retrieve said friend. Girri's loyalty may be hard-won but once given is unlikely to be retracted. 

Description 
Girri is attractive, if somewhat hard-looking. Dark brown hair flows freely and frames strong blue eyes that are both quick and calculating--when not shrouded in a Shiver-induced fever. Girri dresses to reveal her best physical assets: a flat stomach, lean legs, and strong shoulders. Girri makes her living selling fortunes on the street to passers-by ; she knows as well as anyone that a comely lass attracts more coin than does a girl with homely wares. Better to be pretty and have gold in your pocket but suffer the winter chill than be broke. Girri dresses in layers of colorful scarves, beneath which she sports piecemeal leather armor. It was hard work stealing all that armor a piece at a time off drunk and wanton men. 

Personality 
Girri has a quick smile and likes a joke as well as anyone but guards herself against those who try to worm their conniving way past her many outward defenses (her sense of humor and ready charm not the least of these). Despite a mirthful exterior, Girri is at heart a cynic. The world has burned her one too many times and she is slow to trust. 

Background 
Born in the haberdasherie district of Korvosa to a Varisian mother of Riddleport descent, Girri learned the ways of the Korvosan streets at an early age; the best pick-pocketing is done in the temple district on worship-day morning, warm bread for one's belly is quicker obtained by stealing it than by kneading it oneself, men are fools for women, and trouble comes to those overly finicky about their next bed and meal. For folk who delight in ill-gotten gain, the chancery of life, and the occasional dabble in the occult, Korvosa--despite its well-earned reputation as a city of Law--is a lay-about's paradise.

Some 20 years ago--by the best estimate of Mother Crone of Bent Trace Futurities--Girri was given over to the Futurities shop by one Gadrean Lamm, who himself had stolen Girri from her indigent mother. Likely Lamm found Girri unsuitable for work as one of his Little Lamms and sought to profit from her in whatever way he could. Since being sold into slavery to the stoop-backed Mother Crone, Girri has served as shop dandy. Sweeping the floor, preparing the old Crone's gruel, polishing the seer's "reliquary" on display in the reading room, hawking for customers--such was Girri's life until last autumn. By saving the occasional tip dropped by a customer (gone unnoticed by the old lady) and honest street thieving, Girri bough her freedom from Mother Crone and, leaving the Futurities shop on Bent Trace, set off for the Korvosan docks in the middle district hoping to ply the tidbits of fate-telling she'd gleaned over the years.

Without a roof over her head, the winter got the better of Girri. When Gadrean Lamm found her one night in a dank hole-in-the-wall taproom, Girri has already fallen to Consumption. Lamm's promise that a little Shiver would warm her sounded good to Girri, so she paid with what little coin she had. True to his word, the Shiver made Girri feel warmer. The hard truth, however, was that the drug gave the girl a false sense of well-being. Cold, on the streets in the dead of winter, and down to her last coins, Girri took to overnighting in taverns near the docks. She struggled through the cold by garbing herself in flimsy silk scarves normally reserved for picking pockets and selling herself to dockworkers, sailors, portors, and taproom clientele for enough coin to buy either a warm bed or another bit of Shiver. When Lamm raised the price of dose, Girri found herself without means to maintain her addiction and so was forcibly retired from use. Weakened by sickness and haggard to the bone by the price of her "freedom," Girri has a bone to pick with Lamm that may result in the villain's head in a sewer. 
[/sblock]


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## Scott DeWar (Nov 15, 2010)

I had to take a peek . . . Harpy musk?

Tetsubo


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 15, 2010)

Harpy musk was first published in the Rise of the Runelord Player's Guide but is a setting-specific item for Golarion.  The item description reads thus: the reek of this doubtful cure-all proves useful at scaring off Varisian goblins. If smeared on a surface or used as a thrown weapon, the musk fills a 30-foot area with the stink of harpies for 1 minute. Any Varisian goblin who enters the area must make a DC 14 Will save or be shaken for 1 minute.


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## HolyMan (Nov 16, 2010)

Nice character CB, 

I didn't see a race but by the slight point to the ear I'm thinking half-elf? 

You know she would be a good central character to build a group around. Having the protective bodyguard(warrior), skilled diplomat (rogue), and maybe a dragonblood sorcerer (mage) as companions. Anything really just trying to fill the roles.

HM
_


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## Scott DeWar (Nov 16, 2010)

CanadienneBacon said:


> Harpy musk was first published . . . .




nice stuff to have handy!


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 16, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I didn't see a race but by the slight point to the ear I'm thinking half-elf?



Actually, she's a human.  And has access to a harrow deck (though her owner, ie: me, doesn't really get the mechanics of the harrow deck as I don't own one).


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 16, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> You know she would be a good central character to build a group around. Having the protective bodyguard(warrior), skilled diplomat (rogue), and maybe a dragonblood sorcerer (mage) as companions. Anything really just trying to fill the roles.



In my experience, situations  like the above lead to one player being the star and everyone else feeling left out, which doesn't particularly make for great gaming.  *BUT* it would be fun if the group as a whole was its own little thieves' guild of sorts.  Or gang, or what-have-you.


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## HolyMan (Nov 17, 2010)

Well it would be nice to have all the background building out of the way. Making sure each of us had a link to each other and we could build crunch off each other. So I think having a couple months to do background and all would be a great idea.

Build from adolescents all the way to the day before the AP starts. 

Using your character as a central point to have others "branch" out from means maybe they have all come to you for a Harrow reading at one time or another.

HM
_


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## ghostcat (Nov 17, 2010)

Have we decided whether we're going the "standard" or "release the lich king version. Or shall we do backgrounds for both?

Lydia (Flame Oracle) is really easy as she can go to see Girri for an interpretation of her dreams.

Piedra (Dwarf Ranger) is more of a problem as I can't see him going to a fortune teller. So he would need a secondary link.

As for the release the Lich king alternate. I haven't even considered his background.


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## HolyMan (Nov 17, 2010)

It would be the stanard version I think for this. And your flame oracle could also be a childhood friend or friend of a friend.

HM
_


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## HolyMan (Nov 22, 2010)

Alright I have decided to run "Carrion Crown" when it is released. I like all the things I have been reading about it on the paizo boards, so I think we should spend the next two months creating an in depth background for each character followed by the link that makes you all an adventuring group.

First I better get a feel of who would like to play so I will change the title thread in a minute.

Also as we discuss the backgrounds we should see about party roles and such. This is due out in FEB so alot could change (especially when the players guide comes out) mechanically. And I will try and fill you in on any world details you think you would like to know although I myself am new to Golarion but have the campaign setting book.

HM
_


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## Walking Dad (Nov 22, 2010)

Now you are official recruiting? Would be room for an Oracle with the Juju mystery?

The mystery is from _Pathfinder #39 68_.

You can find it here online:

The Archives of Nethys - Alternate Class Features


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## HolyMan (Nov 22, 2010)

Always room for you WD, 

But what you play should best be looked at by the group your in. I will run multiply groups if needed because...

A) I like everyone to get a chance to play the character they want. Hard to do if you only have a couple people playing and someone has to be the meat shield.

B) If I spend money on something I like to get the most out of it.

C) I will have a few games done by FEB so it should be no problem. 

D) I want to try the running two groups at the same time, each playing off the other, and maybe this will be the game to try it with.

HM
_


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## Walking Dad (Nov 22, 2010)

Ok everyone, who wants a Wendo / (Voodoo) practicing half-orc in the group? He gives full divine spellcasting and later some non-evil undead support


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## Herobizkit (Nov 22, 2010)

Oh yes.  Yes, indeed.

I have a few concepts I'd be interested in trying.

Inquisitor Undead-Slayer - qv Castlevania.  Maybe a Dwarf with Guns, or an Elf.

I'd also be very interested in playing a Goblin or Hobgoblin PC.

My Hobgoblin would be the Undead-Slayer.
My Goblin would be an Alchemist, Summoner, or Witch.

(guess who's tired of core classes?)

Speaking of, if I had to stay Core, I'd likely play a Ranger or Bard.

And yeah, any of my character types would be happy to travel with a half-orc juju bean.

Just throwing around ideas at the moment.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 22, 2010)

Would have to convince the undead slayer that my Wendo animated corpses are not undead... at least they are not evil.


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## renau1g (Nov 22, 2010)

Definitely interested. This seems the coolest AP to date.


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## ghostcat (Nov 22, 2010)

Still interested and still looking to play either a Dwarf Ranger or a half-blind Oracle.

I like them both, so don't really have a preference.


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## Herobizkit (Nov 22, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> Would have to convince the undead slayer that my Wendo animated corpses are not undead... at least they are not evil.



Well, if my Hobbo gets the thumbs-up, he won't be the snarly holier-than-thou undead slayer so much as a monster hunter with a chip on his shoulder.  He'd be only interested in the Big Bad - everything else would be collateral damage.


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## jackslate45 (Nov 22, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> Would have to convince the undead slayer that my Wendo animated corpses are not undead... at least they are not evil.




Lawful good Paladin + This = Fun times! Cleric is probally easier to convince than someone who hates undead.

EDIT:  Although with 2 divine casters already I could switch to a Sorcerer or Wizard.  Maybe Witch.  Something Arcane?


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm still in with Girri, my Varisian cleric of Pharasma.  Neutral alignment, channeling positive energy...see my post for full character sheet back on page 2.


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## Shayuri (Nov 22, 2010)

I'd really like to try a Summoner one of these games. Perhaps this is the one.

That said, a Summoner is a poor primary caster, and it seems y'all still need a primary arcanist...

I can do a wizard...or a dragon sorceror. Hmm...that could be pretty sweet. A sort of roughneck scrappy sorceror. Hehe.

Well, we shall see what develops. If someone else wants primary arcanist, I'll make a summoner.


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## HolyMan (Nov 22, 2010)

There are seven interested parties and a few who chimed in before who haven't yet.

So two groups looks like the way we may end up going. With that in mind you can be sure almost every role is about taken.

WD - Voodoo Oracle ( juju zombies love it)
ghostcat - Oracle

Shayuri - Arcanist
jackslate45 - Arcane caster or...

jackslate45 - Cleric
CB - Cleric

renau1g - unknown
Herobizkit - undecided

And by the time we start I think we should be able to find one more player to spilt the groups up more evenly or come up with some idea for everyone as a whole?

So I guess the job now is to get a firm idea of what you wish to play or if you already do see about a background with someone else based off their race and class.

HM


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 22, 2010)

<---wants to stick with Varisian cleric of Pharasma.


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## HolyMan (Nov 22, 2010)

CanadienneBacon said:


> <---wants to stick with Varisian cleric of Pharasma.




Sure thing and maybe you can get [MENTION=17691]Ambrus[/MENTION] to show you how to do a  Harrow reading 

This was a great post during our CotCT game.

HM


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 22, 2010)

Still interested, I'll probably um and ah over an actual build, tempted to play a Paladin - based slightly upon the current distribution.


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## CanadienneBacon (Nov 22, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Sure thing and maybe you can get Ambrus to show you how to do a  Harrow reading



Funny you should mention Ambrus.  He's the DM for whom I originally created Girri.


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## HolyMan (Nov 22, 2010)

Ah I see CB, he would be the authority then.

And np AFg, we will need some martial types with the current lay out.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Nov 23, 2010)

Dwarf Inquisitor.
I'm also interested in being a Hobgoblin Inquisitor if the DM allows.


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## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Speaking of what's allowed and all, what to do about character gene??? Everyone knows I hate using the standard method all the time. Boring and you get no characters with ... well character. 

This game is going to be full of undead, were-wolves, and other nastiness. So we better have some pretty heroic characters or characters that can become heroic, hmm...

Ok for character gene we will spice things up a bit. (Sorry WD ).

*Abilities:* Use the Heroic method to generate scores that is roll 2d6 and add 6 to give you six numbers and assign. _Spice:_ If you roll your stats in order and play with them as is (after race modification of course), you get a free +2/+2 FEAT. 

Going to change the way characters advance stats as they level up also. You will be givin points to respend on abilities (Thanks for the idea [MENTION=478]Thanee[/MENTION]) those based on what you start with. So that by the last module of the adventure path everyone should have stats at about the same point buy (thinking 30 points). Thus you will become heroic if you aren't to start. More on this later.

*Race:* Core plus the following from Bestairy: Aasimar, Duergar, Hobgoblin, Tengu, and Tiefling 

*Class:* Core rulebook + APG only. 

*SKills and Feats:* Core and APG only. 

*Traits:* Pick one trait from the APG only.

*Equipment:* Average starting wealth. _Spice:_ In your background have it so I can grant you a special item. This could be anything from a long lost lover's ring to the shield of your forefathers. I will be looking over backgrounds and grant items accordingly. 

Did I miss anything? I think we should break down into groups by class and see what we have peopel thinking of. And then work on some background and linking characters together.

Also remember that there will be a Player's Guide with AP feats, spells and items so we will need a last minute go over before truly starting.

HM


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## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

So going back through all this I see that 12 people  have posted in this little thread.

@CanadienneBacon - Character set Girri gypsy cleric (just change crunch based on character gene please)
@ghostcat - dwarven ranger or human (half-blind) oracle - I like the Wasting curse for something like this seems to fit.
@Aldern Foxglove - paladin mentioned
@jackslate45 - archanist or cleric
@GandalfMithrandir - lurking?? possibly *UPDATE:* human Axe fighter
@Walking Dad - half-orc JuJu Oracle
@rangerjohn - undecided
@Orius - wondering about the system but if you wish Orius I will help you as needed. It's all about the RP.
@Scott DeWar - I know is lurking but maybe I will finally get to be a DM of his.
@Herobizkit - Inquisitor, dwarf
@renau1g - undecided
@Shayuri - Summoner or archanist

Two groups of 6 if I can get Scott out of Lurking mode LOL 

Best thing now is to break you into two of 5 each throw the two lurkers in for good measure and start OOC's and party building. Any ideas how to go about that?

EDIT: Sorry to @Aldren whom I mentioned instead of Aldern Foxglove 

HM


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## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 25, 2010)

Oh I'm definitely going to roll in order, an extra +2/+2 feat is okay, but I love letting the dice dictate, lol.  Let's see what I get...


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## GandalfMithrandir (Nov 25, 2010)

yes I am lurking, I'm not sure, I don't think so at the moment, I am probably in too many games as it is, and I want to buy this one, so I would probably need to DM it, and that takes time, you know what? Heck with it, I'll play, I will go with a human axe fighter

assuming what with the no plan survives contact with the enemy and all that.


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## renau1g (Nov 25, 2010)

My thoughts are a hobgoblin witch-doctor inspired by this:


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## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Great pic and model (man how long since I last painted a fig? maybe 3 yrs )

What class or combo classes renau1g? And maybe you and Herobizkit's characters can know each other.

Welcome aboard axe fighter GM. I hope by FEB you have a little extra time.

HM


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## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Hmmm glad you rolled up AFg now I can explain a little about the stats as we lvl up.

Ok looking at AFg's rolls he has a 14pt character build. What I will do is take that and figure out how many points he will receive per module completed and at the end of each adventure he will be given more points to add to his base (unmodified by magic or race) stats. 

So when his character starts the last module he will have a base built on a 30pt buy.

Looking at that you would get 3 points for each  module 1-4 and 4 pts for completing module 5. 

Sound fun?

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 25, 2010)

Hmm, well those are some relentlessly mediocre stats, lets call it a challenge - with going summoner being cheating.  Going to need those racial bonuses...


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Remember you can still swap the scores if you wish. You want to play a CHA based class??

That would be a challenge, starting with a 10 but you would be able to raise that base stat to 11 (13 after racial bonus) when the first module is finished. 

And then the base to 13 (15 after racial bonus, maybe 16 after 4th lvl stat raise) by the end of the second. With one point to use on another stat left over.

So again you wouldn't be all heroic to start but as you advance you would become a hero out of legend.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Nov 25, 2010)

Final answer: Dwarf Inquisitor of Kurgess.  LOTRO and WoW's racial updates has got me Dwarf-happy.

I don't know how to use the new die roller... I'll poke around and see if I can learn.

Also, guns?  Guns are flava flava, especially if they're Simple weapons as listed in the SRD.


----------



## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 25, 2010)

Nah, I actually kind of like it.  I'm thinking human fighter, with a touch of Roy from Order of the Stick - too bright for his own good world weary, etc.  Should be a challenge, but with careful tactical and leveling choice I think he can remain a viable character.  Hopefully those leveling bonuses will help beef him up at later levels and early on melee classes have a natural advantage.


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Sounds good. Just need to know groups but with you and GM decided on fighters we have a base and at least one cleric. So after a few more people decide I will start an RG and seperate OOC for one group.

Probably after the holiday I should be on tomorrow night but not all day like today.

HM


----------



## renau1g (Nov 25, 2010)

I was thinking either druid or witch (just ignore the armor) or maybe summoner?

I'll be rolling in order, because it's fun.

Wow... nice rolls. herobizkit mentioned a hobgoblin before, maybe we can be linked? Same tribe or something?


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

He decided on a dwarf and great rolls congrats.

What about a sorcerer(verdant bloodline) or your right that would be a good summoner. Really anything a spirit ranger or even a savage skald/barbarian.

Classes are pretty endless in PF I'm finding out.

EDIT: YIKES that is like giving you 29pts to play with to build a character meaning you would only have one point to gain in 5 modules. I guess that could because your stats are so good to start. Man what if someone goes over 30pts???

HM


----------



## jackslate45 (Nov 25, 2010)

I am not nearly Brave enough to do a straight die roll.  But I will be rolling to see what comes up.


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Before you start rearrange jackslate45 that looks like good straight stats for a rogue.

STR: 14
DEX: 17
CON: 13
INT: 14
WIS: 10
CHA: 10

Up to you

HM


----------



## Shayuri (Nov 25, 2010)

Rolling, rolling rolling...

yeah...I probably should have mentioned this before: dice rollers -hate- me. It doesn't seem to matter which. OpenRPG...Invisible Castle...now this one. I have the crummiest luck imaginable.

This is why I like point buy.


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

You will get to spend your points Shayuri just as you go. So in the end it will be like I gave you 30 points to play with, promise.

HM


----------



## Orius (Nov 25, 2010)

Is there still room for a wizard in one of the groups?  If so, I'll roll one up.


----------



## Scott DeWar (Nov 25, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> @Scott DeWar - I know is lurking but maybe I will finally get to be a DM of his.
> 
> Two groups of 6 if I can get Scott out of Lurking mode LOL





Actually, I have not even been aboe to lurk here. i have been busy with a couple of characterrs for a couple of games i just joined. i also have a job thing going on. so sorry. not this time. not even lurking.


----------



## Walking Dad (Nov 25, 2010)

I tried to roll on IC but I got the wrong dice roller:

invisiblecastle.com/campaign/view/17319/

Here is my 2d6+6 try:

Abilities  (2d6+6=17, 2d6+6=10, 2d6+6=13, 2d6+6=14, 2d6+6=17, 2d6+6=14)

=

Str: 13
Dex 14
Con 17
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha (17 +2 racial) = 19

Half Orc Oracle (Juju) Wasting Curse


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Orius said:


> Is there still room for a wizard in one of the groups?  If so, I'll roll one up.




Sure thing Orius roll him up.



Scott DeWar said:


> Actually, I have not even been aboe to lurk here. i have been busy with a couple of characterrs for a couple of games i just joined. i also have a job thing going on. so sorry. not this time. not even lurking.




Well that sucks twice over. But I sure hope you got the job you were interviewing for. 

HM


----------



## renau1g (Nov 25, 2010)

Hmm I do like the idea of summoner... I've always been partial to summoning


----------



## ghostcat (Nov 25, 2010)

I joining jackslate45 in wimping out of a straight die roll. Ability dice hate me even more than HP dice, if that possible. So here goes

So  of course the b'dy dice rolled had to prove me a liar and generate a playable Ranger. So I will be keeping the order and going with a Dwarf Ranger.


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Hate you even more?! No way... hmmm... I see your point.

Not bad to start for the dwarven ranger stats, the oracle a little tougher but still a good base to work with.

HM


----------



## Shayuri (Nov 25, 2010)

Given that my stats suck, I'd like to try summoner.

But it seems like there's three of us who are interested in that.

I just don't want to spend half the game utterly useless, is all. Points or no points, it'll be a long time waiting for advancement in a PBP.


----------



## Herobizkit (Nov 25, 2010)

I could use these in order, but it'd be a total waste of an 18.

http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/search/734073

2d6+6=16,  2d6+6=12, 2d6+6=14, 2d6+6=13, 2d6+6=14, 2d6+6=18

Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 18

Actually, ya know what?  I will keep 'em as is.  With Dwarf modifiers...

Str 16, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 16

That's all win in my books.

@renau1g: We COULD be related/linked if I play a Duergar!

I'd take an even bigger hit to Cha (dropping it to 14) but I'll wager a Duergar will be much more useful in an undead-ridden game.

So, yeah, HM... if renau1g wants to work with me through story of how a Duergar Inquisitor and a Hobbo Summoner would work together, swell.   I would likely be N alignment, take Droskar as my deity, and opt for the sub-domain of Deception (from Domain: Trickery) as my domain.


----------



## Walking Dad (Nov 25, 2010)

Only clerics can choose subdomains. This was clarified by the designers on the paizo forums and in the FAQ.


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Given that my stats suck, I'd like to try summoner.
> 
> But it seems like there's three of us who are interested in that.
> 
> I just don't want to spend half the game utterly useless, is all. Points or no points, it'll be a long time waiting for advancement in a PBP.




I know so that's why in my games I usually forgo XP. I have had success in the past making for fast lvl ups. And I think their is now only two people looking at the summoner class. I'll double check.



Walking Dad said:


> Only clerics can choose subdomains. This was clarified by the designers on the paizo forums and in the FAQ.




What was the reason given. RAW was made to be bent. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

Ok recap to keep everyone up to date of current activity.


```
Character concepts

[COLOR=Orange][U]Player                  Rolled    Character(Race - Class)[/U][/COLOR]
Aldern Foxglove          YES      Human Fighter
renau1g                  YES      Hobgoblin Summoner
jackslate45              YES      ?? - ??
Shayuri                  YES      ?? Summoner
Walking Dad              YES      Half-Orc Oracle (JuJu) Wasting curse
Orius                     NO      ?? Wizard
ghostcat                 YES      Dwarven Ranger
Herobizkit               YES      Duergar Inquisitor
GandalfMithrandir         NO      Human Fighter
rangerjohn                NO      ?? - ??
CandienneBacon            NO      Human Cleric
```
For groups so far:

Group A:
- renau1g
- Herobizkit
- Walking Dad
- one of the two human fighters - who would be willing to work with "evil" humaniods
- Open slot
- Open slot

Group B:
- The other human fighter
- Shayuri
- ghostcat
- CandienneBacon
- Open slot

This is just testing groups does anyone see a better fit than I do?

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 25, 2010)

Well I would be willing to work with those of different races, but I want to make a good character so would find it problematic if the characters themselves were evil.


----------



## renau1g (Nov 25, 2010)

My PC won't be evil, just misunderstood (like all good heroes right ), he may even go so far as to be CG, but likely CN, or LN.

I'm still debating between Summoner and Sorcerer... leaning towards summoner... just so many options!


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 26, 2010)

That's why I put the evil in quotes, they shouldn't be evil but will be from races that are thought of that way.

Group will definitely need a good face-man. 

HM


----------



## Aldern Foxglove (Nov 26, 2010)

Well then throw me in with the monsters, lol.  I think I'm actually going to wuss out and shift my stats about though.  So 12 17 12 12 8 12 and go with my original Pally inclination - with racial adjustments.


----------



## Herobizkit (Nov 26, 2010)

My Duergar has a Cha of 14, what do you want? 



			
				WalkingDad said:
			
		

> Only clerics can choose subdomains. This was clarified by the designers on the paizo forums and in the FAQ.






			
				Pathfinder FAQ said:
			
		

> *Can druids, inquisitors, and other classes with access to domains take subdomains?
> 
> * Yes, as long as they follow the rules for subdomains. A character who does not worship a deity (such as some druids and paladins) may select any one subdomain appropriate to a domain available to his or her class.






			
				Pathfinder FAQ said:
			
		

> –Sean K Reynolds (10/12/10)




IE, if my Inquisitor somehow got access to two domains, I couldn't take the Trickery domain if I already have the Deception sub-domain.


----------



## renau1g (Nov 26, 2010)

I'll be the face, an 18 CHA? Plus...look at this face...who wouldn't trust it.


----------



## Herobizkit (Nov 26, 2010)

LOL A Paladin, an Oracle, and an Inquisitor... divine power ftw!  So now we need [MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION] to make a Celestial-blooded Sorcerer... then we'd need maybe an Aasimar Monk... and an actual Cleric of Something Sunny.  Undead, eh...


----------



## Herobizkit (Nov 26, 2010)

Double post om nom nom...


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 26, 2010)

Oh I trust that face renau1g 

What I don't trust is that morningstar 

HM


----------



## jackslate45 (Nov 26, 2010)

after driving to thanksgiving dinner and back, im thinking about trying that rogue out.    Half elf rogue, and Alertness as the +2/+2  It will be kinda fun


----------



## Orius (Nov 26, 2010)

So ability scores are 2d6+6, six times?

Not bad.

Str 12
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 13
Cha 12

Just basic human wizard, true neutral.

I'll just recycle this character:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4916278-post75.html

That campaign went nowhere, and I made a necromancer for the whole vampire vs. werewolves thing the DM seemed to have going on.  If this adventure path has a bunch of undead, then the character should be alright. And looking at the PF SRD, I see necromancers get turn or command undead as a bonus ability.  That should be useful.  Looks like I need to tweak the skills a little.  And swap out the Arcane Defense feat.

The background will of course be changed, but I'm not familiar with Golarion.  Probably a new name too, I made that one to sound Realmsy.


----------



## HolyMan (Nov 26, 2010)

A true Perception Powerhouse you will have jackslate45. 

Yep good start Orius and as he advances he will grow in abilities.

Either of your characters would fit in either group (although I'm thinking the wizard maybe safer in the group with a ranger and a fighter), I guess it is we need to wait to see what rangerjohn wishes to play before I decide where to throw the two of you.

HM


----------



## Walking Dad (Nov 26, 2010)

Aldern Foxglove said:


> Well I would be willing to work with those of different races, but I want to make a good character so would find it problematic if the characters themselves were evil.



Not evil. One of the cool things about juju is the availability of good / neutral undead creation 



Herobizkit said:


> My Duergar has a Cha of 14, what do you want?
> 
> IE, if my Inquisitor somehow got access to two domains, I couldn't take the Trickery domain if I already have the Deception sub-domain.



I stand corrected. But I'm sure Buhlman said otherwise before. But I like the change. The before rational was to give clerics some special option only they got, as all the other APG alternate features are only available to one class.

Hooray, now I can make my dwarf arctic druid with the Ice subdomain


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Nov 26, 2010)

I am fine working with evil people. so I can do that, rolls will be monday, as I am not supposed to be on right now

WD do you still need juju oracle stuff? just got the AP today.


----------



## Walking Dad (Nov 26, 2010)

I found the mystery online, but I would appreciate the juju fetish and juju zombie information. Not really needed at first level, but nice to have for later. Could you PM them to me (I assume they are OGC)? Thanks!


----------



## jackslate45 (Nov 28, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> A true Perception Powerhouse you will have jackslate45.



What is a rogue without Perception?  A corpse.


----------



## renau1g (Nov 28, 2010)

He then acts as the 10' pole for the rest of the party


----------



## CanadienneBacon (Nov 29, 2010)

You said "pole."  Heh.

Rolling for Girri, Cleric of Pharasma.


----------



## CanadienneBacon (Nov 29, 2010)

HM, let me know if you need anything else from me for Girri.


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Nov 29, 2010)

rolling for... Josef, the axe fighter from the frozen north.

EDIT: aww... looks like 13, 13, 13, 9, 11, 11, bumping strength up with the +2 racial to 15


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 1, 2010)

Ok as most of you know by now I will not be around for about three weeks but I would like you all to still work on your characters. I have made two RG's and an additional OOC for the second group. If you find time after making characters you can work on your backgrounds. Everyone need not know everyone but a few links would be good even if it that you both just happen to go to the same tavern alot.

OK here's an update and I have groups made below with your RG links. rangerjohn can jump in his grou and round it out or not as everyone sees fit. 


```
Character concepts

[COLOR=Orange][U]Player                  Rolled    Character(Race - Class)[/U][/COLOR]
Aldern Foxglove          YES      Human Fighter
renau1g                  YES      Hobgoblin Summoner
jackslate45              YES      Half elf Rogue 
Shayuri                  YES      ?? Summoner
Walking Dad              YES      Half-Orc Oracle (JuJu) Wasting curse
Orius                    YES      Human Wizard
ghostcat                 YES      Dwarven Ranger
Herobizkit               YES      Duergar Inquisitor
GandalfMithrandir        YES      Human Fighter
rangerjohn                NO      ?? - ??
CandienneBacon           YES      Human Cleric
```

Savage Stampede:
- renau1g
- Herobizkit
- Walking Dad
- GandalfMithrandir
- Orius
- rangerjohn

*RG* - http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/297623-rg-carrion-crown-ap-savage-stampede.html
*OOC* - Will still be this one. Please go over each others characters and figure out if anyone knows anyone to start.

The Deadwatchers:
- Aldern Foxglove
- Shayuri
- ghostcat
- CandienneBacon
- jackslate45

*RG *- http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/297624-rg-carrion-crown-ap-deadwatchers.html
*OOC* - http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/297625-carrion-crown-ap-deadwatchers-ooc.html

That should keep you all busy for a few weeks and who knows if a group is ready I will perhaps run them through a quick encounter ( I have a graveyard map around here somewhere) this Jan.

HM


----------



## Orius (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm with the evil(-ish) group then?  I think I'll set the necromancer up to control rather than turn undead then.  This should be fun.


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Dec 1, 2010)

I might make Josef evil instead of whatever, if everyone else is evil.


----------



## Herobizkit (Dec 1, 2010)

Not evil.  There are some traditionally evil races on the go, but ours is more like the 'Shades of Grey' group.  I think having someone Good(ish?) on the team could be a huge benefit... especially when dealing with NPCs.


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Dec 1, 2010)

OK, chaotic good it is then, 

side note, are you still interested in my other game? assuming you went along to the temple, because it's still limping along with three players and a knowlegable person could be useful later in the adventure I have planned.

If you have time, of course.


----------



## rangerjohn (Dec 3, 2010)

Sorry, forgot about this over the holiday.  Will see what everyone else posts and round out the party.

I can get the die rolls out of the way.  Here's hoping I have better luck with the dice roller.

Looks like Rogue/Face.


----------



## rangerjohn (Dec 3, 2010)

Work in Progress
Zeldana Female Half Varasian Elf Rogue

Stats: 8,13,12,17,12,16



Str 13 +1
Dex 19 +2 racial adjustment +4 
Con 12 +1
Int 12 +1
wis 8  -1
Cha 16 +3



Rapier +3 1d6+1 +1d6 SA
Shortbow +3 1-6

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus(b)

Skills:
Perception:1 rank +3 CS+ 2 Keen Senses +3 -1 wis Skill Focus=8 (9 vs traps)
Stealth 1 rank +3 CS +4 Dex=8
Use Magic Device 1 rank +3 CS +3 Cha= 7
Diplomacy 1 rank +3 CS +3 Cha =7
Knowledge, Local 1 rank +3 CS +1 Int =6
Disable Device 1 rank +3 CS +4 Dex =8
Climb 1 rank +3 CS +1 Str =5
Perform, Oratory 1 rank +3 CS + 3 Cha
Acrobatics 1 rank +3 CS + 4 Dex = 8

Fort +1 
Ref 6
Will -1


----------



## Walking Dad (Dec 6, 2010)

Work in Progress

Tonko Male Half Orc Oracle

Str: 13
Dex 14
Con 17
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha (17 +2 racial) = 19

Wasting Curse

Revelation:
Undead Servitude

Feats: Toughness

Traits:
Dangerously Curious
Focused Mind


Skills:
Heal
Intimidate
Know (religion)
Spell craft
Use Magic device

Fort +3
Ref +2
Will +2


----------



## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

Just saw the nice new artwork for the adventure path in the paizo blog and just realized:

It is an adventure with much snow and ice and I submitted a jungle character 

Everyone fine if I change my character to an arctic druid with the ice/cold subdomain? Always wanted to try this and it would fit much better thematically.


----------



## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

Work in Progress

Hagnim Male Dwarf Druid (arctic)

Str: 13
Dex 17
Con (14 +2 racial) = 16
Int 13
Wis (17 (17 +2 racial) = 19
Cha (10 -2 racial) = 8

Nature bond: Ice (sub)domain

Feats: Spell Focus (conjuration)

Traits:
Focused Mind
Deep Guardian

Skills:
Heal
Survival
Know (nature)
Spell craft
Perception

Fort +5
Ref +3
Will +6


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 21, 2010)

I have np with that WD. 

Looks like rangerjohn has rounded out the group class wise so we should be set to go. 

Probably I will be slow with this thread as I await the adventure and player's guide. You all should be finishing character's in the RG and linking a few of them if you wish.

HM


----------



## Orius (Dec 21, 2010)

Posted in RG.  As mentioned above, I'm recycling and tweaking a 3.5 character.

Huh, PF wizards get d6 HD?  Interesting.

So skills have been pared down a bit, I have to swap something for Concentration, Search and Spot have been combined into Perception it seems as well.  Couldn't remember why I had Knowledge (religion), but looking at the skill descriptions, I think I probably took it for identifying undead.

Need another feat.  I had Arcane Defense (necromancy), but that's not in PF, so I need something else.  Probably just Combat Casting or Greater Spell Focus, or even Spell Penetration.

Should I roll for starting wealth, take 70 gp, or do you care?

For Arcane Bond, the description says I start with a free bonded item.  I'm thinking of taking wand, that would be a wand with no spells in it I assume?


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 21, 2010)

Here's what I found for equipment and I forgot about my Spice I need to work on something for everyone once backgrounds are done.



> *Equipment:* Average starting wealth. _Spice:_ In your background have it so I can grant you a special item. This could be anything from a long lost lover's ring to the shield of your forefathers. I will be looking over backgrounds and grant items accordingly.




And going to go post the Character gene rules in the RG(s). The wand does start with no spell in it but you may when you are the appropriate lvl add spells as if you had the feat, without actually having it. Your background item can be anything - a signet ring that later might prove to be powerful magic or a weapon or whatever you wish. 

HM


----------



## jackslate45 (Dec 21, 2010)

Would you accept Dervish Dance as a feat?  This will help my character out significantly.


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 21, 2010)

Fairly balanced with not being able to use a shield and all. So yes that is acceptable (please link it on your sheet in the RG - incase so when I forget what it does I can look it up). 

Also I hope to see it in action on the fluff side when you post. 

Remember also that when the players guide comes out it will be a free download and have feats, equipment and spells designed for this AP. Everyone will be able to get in a last change but I'm hoping we are ready way before the game hits my mailbox.

HM


----------



## jackslate45 (Dec 21, 2010)

i cant really get it till level 2 anyway, just thought I would check before I start posting him


----------



## Walking Dad (Dec 21, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Fairly balanced with not being able to use a shield and all. So yes that is acceptable (please link it on your sheet in the RG - incase so when I forget what it does I can look it up).
> ...




Not my opinion, but this isn't LPF and you are the DM 

... druids are proficient with scimitars and I got a 17 Dex... possibilities


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 21, 2010)

Yes please take it WD I want to see your dwarf dance. 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6F15Vc1JWI[/ame]

HM


----------



## Walking Dad (Dec 21, 2010)

That was no real dwarf with any respect for himself. He should try to die in battle to regain some of his honor!

My character is an arctic druid! he will only do the snowflake dance!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MESKLG_-bfQ]YouTube - Snowflake-dance[/ame]


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 21, 2010)

More of a halfling here-


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq6h9mPrlF0]YouTube - Dancing Dwarf on Venezuelan TV[/ame]


HM


----------



## Orius (Dec 22, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Here's what I found for equipment and I forgot about my Spice I need to work on something for everyone once backgrounds are done.




I guess that is average.  I probably should have gone back and read he previous posts.




> And going to go post the Character gene rules in the RG(s). The wand does start with no spell in it but you may when you are the appropriate lvl add spells as if you had the feat, without actually having it. Your background item can be anything - a signet ring that later might prove to be powerful magic or a weapon or whatever you wish.




Ah ok I read that wrong I thought I needed the IC feat to add the abilities.  I'm not really planning on Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and I'm going to be taking Craft Wand anyway, so that looked useful (there's also amulet but that takes up a body slot).  To get the most use out of it, it's probably best for me to have an item that has a 5th level IC feat.

I'm still not sure which direction to take this guy, either a scholarly type who's into forbidden knowledge, kind of like a Victor Frankenstein and maybe go for Loremaster.  Or just a jerkass necromancer who's in it for the power and thinks things like recycling is all about animating dead foes and such. 

I hope this AP has some decent Necromancy spells.  The core spells are a bit sparse (I'm kind of missing fun stuff like _negative energy burst_ here).

Put up the background.  The original character was a wizard from Silverymoon whose goody-two-shoes parents took issue with his study of necromancy, I kept the basic background while purging the Realms references.  Don't know anything about Golarion, so I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## Herobizkit (Dec 22, 2010)

Forget power.  Wizards become necromancers because a) they don't deal well with other people and b) they're lazy.  Depending on the 'rating' of the game (PG - R) your wizard could actually be, um, 'attracted' to the undead because they 'understand' him.  Or better, your wizard could be a Dexter-type character who kills serial killers, criminals, etc... and then animates them as their eternal punishment, or for his own jollies.


----------



## Orius (Dec 23, 2010)

Herobizkit said:


> Depending on the 'rating' of the game (PG - R) your wizard could actually be, um, 'attracted' to the undead because they 'understand' him.




Um, no.

Anyway, I still have time to decide just how jerkass I want to make him.


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 23, 2010)

Shouldn't that be based on CHA and Alignment.

I have been reading that it seems the "hook" to start this AP is that the death of a common ally brings the PC's together.

This is like what you would read on the back of a module:


> _When Harrowstone Prison burned to the ground, prisoners, guards, and a  host of vicious madmen met a terrifying end. In the years since, the  nearby town of Ravengro has shunned the fire-scarred ruins, telling  tales of unquiet spirits that wander abandoned cellblocks. But when a  mysterious evil disturbs Harrowstone’s tenuous spiritual balance, a  ghostly prison riot commences that threatens to consume the nearby  village in madness and flames. Can the adventurers discover the secrets  of Harrowstone and quell a rebellion of the dead? Or will they be the  spirit-prison’s next inmates? _




HM


----------



## renau1g (Dec 23, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Shouldn't that be based on CHA and Alignment.
> 
> 
> HM




Depends. Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance. 

Maybe he's got a great personality, but can't lead anyone or for whatever reason his words come out hollow (like a bad used car salesman) or he's just fugly.


----------



## HolyMan (Dec 29, 2010)

Heads up everyone I have been around the paizo site and release has been pushed up to March 1st

If you all would like to RP/ghost hunt before then let me know. I think instead of XP (which we won't be using) you could earn some rerolls or other bonuses of some sort.

HM


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## Orius (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm just going with the flow here.  Anything's fine with me.


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## Herobizkit (Dec 30, 2010)

If you like, and the others players are really keen on it, we could actually RP the backstory for each of our characters, up to and including the point where we all get together.  It would be a challenge, to be sure.


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## HolyMan (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm keen on that let me look over characters this weekend and then we could give it a go.

HM


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## HolyMan (Jan 4, 2011)

Hmmm not everyone has posted a character. Is this game still a go?

HM


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## Walking Dad (Jan 4, 2011)

I thought I posted at least the bones. Will try to get some meat on it tomorrow.


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## HolyMan (Jan 4, 2011)

yes WD give the poor zombies, ghouls, and werewolves something to chew on please. LOL 

Glad your getting back in the swing WD. 

HM


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## renau1g (Jan 4, 2011)

Just got back from vacation and am trying to get my games in order first. Sorry, I thought we were a bit away from the game so this one was lowest on my priority list.


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## HolyMan (Jan 4, 2011)

NP renau1g (hope you had a great couple holidays)

Yes this is a couple months away. But just giving it a kick now so if people didn't have anything pending they could start throwing out ideals and concepts.

Just hoping to be ready when the module hits my hands LOL.

HM


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## GandalfMithrandir (Jan 9, 2011)

I can get my character up tomorrow

would one of the alternate racial traits from the APG be ok? it would be heart of the wilderness: Heart of the Wilderness: Humans raised in the wild learn the hard way that only the strong survive. They gain a bonus equal to half their character level on Survival checks. They also gain a +5 bonus on Constitution checks to stabilize when dying and add half their character level to their Constitution score when determining the negative hit point total necessary to kill them. This racial trait replaces the skilled racial trait.

link to where that came from


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## HolyMan (Jan 9, 2011)

NP GM I have the APG so anything in there is allowed.

Look at the Fighter class Favored Class bonus options, for taking in the future they look helpful.

HM


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## GandalfMithrandir (Jan 10, 2011)

posted Joseph, for the purposes of the bonus on survival, would half of level 1 be 0 or 1 (it would be rounding up or down)


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## rangerjohn (Jan 11, 2011)

It's usually 1/2 level rounded down, but with a minimum number of one.  So in other words its one until 4th level when it becomes two.


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## HolyMan (Jan 19, 2011)

bump 

Was looking at the RG and am still missing 3 characters. I was going to look into tossing out background and possible hook ideals. 

With the monstrous PCs thinking this will be fun to figure out.

Will bump again if needed in a week.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 6, 2011)

A more than needed re-bump.

HM


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## GandalfMithrandir (Feb 6, 2011)

ready when you are!

Josef still needs to be looked over though


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## HolyMan (Mar 2, 2011)

Let's see if anyone besides GM is still interested...

 [MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION]
[MENTION=36150]Herobizkit[/MENTION]
[MENTION=59043]Walking Dad[/MENTION] - Dwarf Druid (arctic)
[MENTION=8863]Orius[/MENTION] - Human Necromancer
[MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION]

I also have a few other players So if not everyone in this group is interested I can still fill it out for those that are or throw them in the smaller one.

HM


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## Orius (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm still here, waiting for the GM to get started.  

I don't follow PF too closely, so I don't know if the AP has been released yet or not.  If you do merge the two groups though, I might have to retool the character a little.  I don't think a necromancer that's into creating undead slaves and such is going to go well with the other group.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm still here... as is the Player's Guide:

http://paizo.com/store/games/rolepl...inderAdventurePath/carrionCrown/v5748btpy8j0q


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## HolyMan (Mar 2, 2011)

Waiting for me!?! 

I have no idea about this adventure yet but my pre-order is in. 

So we have three and I have potentially two more players that could make this a five man team. hmm... ok we should stay with two groups.

Oh and I added a little bit to character gene listed under traits. I will be checking characters this weekend and have you all tailor your backgrounds using the Player's Guide. (Thanks WD)

We are looking at a March 27th start (since the adventure is due for release March 26th).

HM


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## jackslate45 (Mar 2, 2011)

HM, the SRD added the traits for it online.  If people are to lazy to look up the book.


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## Orius (Mar 3, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Waiting for me!?!
> 
> I have no idea about this adventure yet but my pre-order is in.




Like I said I haven't been following it closely, so I don't know when it was supposed to be released.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 3, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> HM, the SRD added the traits for it online.  If people are to lazy to look up the book.




I will take 'Chance Survivor' as Campaign Trait and 'Deep Guardian' as Magic Trait.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 3, 2011)

I think I may be still interested - this is the one I was going to play a Duergar Inquisitor to go along with [MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION] 's hobgoblin...


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## Walking Dad (Mar 3, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I think I may be still interested - this is the one I was going to play a Duergar Inquisitor to go along with @renau1g 's hobgoblin...



http://www.enworld.org/forum/5391012-post101.html

Yes, it is indeed


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## renau1g (Mar 3, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I think I may be still interested - this is the one I was going to play a Duergar Inquisitor to go along with [MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION] 's hobgoblin...




[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvCI-gNK_y4[/ame]


Yessir I'm here. Been a bit busy last week or so. Both boys developed stomach viruses and since yesterday evening I've been in the hospital as one is suffering, or rather was suffering from dehydration. Just got home after a 14 hour adventure.


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## HolyMan (Mar 4, 2011)

WoW sorry to hear all that renau1g.

Will put your boys on the prayer list. Hope everyone is well soon.

HM


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## rangerjohn (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm supposed to be the rogue, correct?


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## HolyMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Not sure if you were decided on a class as of yet. Just know you wanted to be a hobgoblin and had a picture of your character with a mean looking morningstar.

HM


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## renau1g (Mar 4, 2011)

Hobgobbo sorcerer...now I just need a bloodline...HM was that my hobbo you were talking about?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5386786-post86.html


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## HolyMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Yep, that is the cute little bugger. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Ok Group so far:

- renau1g - Hobgoblin Sorcerer
- Herobizkit - Duergar Inquisitor
- Walking Dad - Dwarf Druid (arctic)
- GandalfMithrandir - Human Fighter
- Orius - Human Necromancer

The RG is here http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/297623-rg-carrion-crown-ap-savage-stampede.html

For those who need to finish/start a character. We will be looking at an end of the month start date as adventure release isn't till around there. Also could add one more player not sure but a cleric would help looks like.

HM


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## renau1g (Mar 4, 2011)

Either a cleric or a wand or two of CLW


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## GandalfMithrandir (Mar 4, 2011)

thinking to go with the chance savior trait (I think that's what it's called, the +2 init one) and then I'll pick out the other soon.

EDIT: chose courageous


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## Walking Dad (Mar 4, 2011)

renau1g said:


> Either a cleric or a wand or two of CLW



Positive energy channel makes the cleric a much more efficient healer... but the wands could work, too. I think we have at least two characters who can use them.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 5, 2011)

Well, there is the choice of my original concept:

Zeldana Female Half Varasian Elf Rogue

Stats: 8,13,12,17,12,16



Str 13 +1
Dex 19 +2 racial adjustment +4 
Con 12 +1
Int 12 +1
wis 8 -1
Cha 16 +3



Rapier +4 1d6+1 +1d6 SA
Shortbow +4 1-6

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus(b)

Traits:
Varasian Wanderer :+1 Perform always class skill
On the Payroll +150 gp

Skills:
Perception:1 rank +3 CS+ 2 Keen Senses +3 -1 wis Skill Focus=8 (9 vs traps)
Stealth 1 rank +3 CS +4 Dex=8
Use Magic Device 1 rank +3 CS +3 Cha= 7
Diplomacy 1 rank +3 CS +3 Cha =7
Knowledge, Local 1 rank +3 CS +1 Int =6
Disable Device 1 rank +3 CS +4 Dex =8
Climb 1 rank +3 CS +1 Str =5
Perform, Oratory 1 rank +3 CS + 3 Cha +1 trait = +8
Acrobatics 1 rank +3 CS + 4 Dex = 8

Fort +1 
Ref 6
Will -1


Or


 Christian Male Aasimar

Cleric of Iomedae

Str 17 +3
Dex 12 +1
Con 12 +1
Int 8 -1
Wis 18 +4 +2 racial adj
Cha 15 +3 + 2 racial adj

Racial abilities:
+2 wis:+2 cha
base speed 30'
darkvision 60'
skilled: +2 perception and diplomacy
SLA: Daylight 1/day as cleric of his level
Celestial Resistance: acid, cold, and electricity resistance 5

Longsword +5 1-8+3
or two-handed +5 1-8+4


Feats: Selective Channelling, 

Traits: Heirloom Weapon [longsword]
Subject of Study: +1 damage vs. undead


Skills: 
Knowledge, Relegion 1 rank +3 cs -1 int =+3
Sense Motive 1 rank +3 cs +4 Wis =+8
Perception +4 Wisdom +2 skilled =+6
Diplomacy +3 Cha +2 skilled = +5

Domains:
Sun

War (Tactics)


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## HolyMan (Mar 5, 2011)

Well rangerjohn either would fit into this as a rogue or a cleric are both roles needed.

Ever think to go Half-Elf Cleric/Rogue?? And have both as your favorite class, LOL

HM


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## rangerjohn (Mar 6, 2011)

Actually, yes.  But you can't do that at first level.


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## HolyMan (Mar 6, 2011)

So the question becomes which class first huh?

Tough one at that. But with the first adventures declaration of going to an old prison to stop a riot of undead inmates I would say cleric first hands down - but that's just me. 

HM


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## rangerjohn (Mar 6, 2011)

Something like this?  Only question is why a cleric of Iomedae would be travelling with this group?  But she probably fits the best as far as fighting the undead.


Christian Male Half Elf

Cleric of Iomedae

Str 17 +3
Dex 12 +1
Con 12 +1
Int 8 -1
Wis 18 +4 +2 racial adj
Cha 13 +1

Racial abilities:
+2 wis
base speed 30'
lowlight vision 
keen senses +2 perception
Adaptability: free skill focus feat
Multi-talented: cleric and rogue favored classes


Fort +3
Ref +1
Will +6

Longsword +5 1-8+3
or two-handed +5 1-8+4


Feats: Selective Channelling, Skill Focus

Traits: Heirloom Weapon [longsword]
Subject of Study: +1 damage vs. undead


Skills: 
Sense Motive 1 rank +3 cs +4 Wis = +8
Perception +4 Wisdom +2 keen senses, skill focus +3 = +9

Class Abilities:
Channel Energy 4/day 1-6 points healing or 1-6 +1 damage to undead
Domains:
Sun: Sun's blessing + cleric level damage to undead with channel energy

War (Tactics)
Seize the Iniative: 7/day allows one ally to roll two dice for iniative and take either result.

Spells:
O:3
Create Water, Light, Stabilize

1:2+1
Bless, Protection Vs Evil+ Magic Weapon


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## HolyMan (Mar 6, 2011)

By the look of the PG you all will probably not know each other to start. But will have an old acquaintance in common. So this should make it fun. 

HM


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## Orius (Mar 6, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> So the question becomes which class first huh?
> 
> Tough one at that. But with the first adventures declaration of going to an old prison to stop a riot of undead inmates I would say cleric first hands down - but that's just me.
> 
> HM




Well turning undead would likely be useful, but my necromancer can control them, so that's fun too.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 6, 2011)

After reading the PG and figuring out that Carrion Crown is Paizo's answer to Ravenloft, my Duergar doesn't seem to 'fit'... but maybe it's that unfitting which will make him interesting.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 6, 2011)

That reminds me... how 'specific' do you run your combats, [MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]?  Should we be worrying about reach, positioning, tactics, etc or are the combats going to be more narrative?


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## HolyMan (Mar 6, 2011)

Hmmm... that's roght of all the people in this I think you are the only one I have never gamed with. Everyone else knows pretty well how I run combats.

Here is an example of combat as I am running test games for a group about to run this AP as well.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/302071-carrion-crown-closed-group-ct.html

I like everyone to give a good post of their characters actions (for those who like to narrate) and we still use all the crunch from the game (as some players like to run those numbers as well).

So the answer is a mix as long as everyone is having fun.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 6, 2011)

Cool.  I also had an interesting idea, not sure if you want to run with it.  Instead of Droskar, I was thinking of having my Dwarf Inquisitor be a worshiper of Asmodeus.  I also can't remember if there were any restrictions on alignment.  If no, Lawful Evil is what I'd like to be, but would also go Lawful Neutral if alignment is an issue.

edit: added [MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] as a mention so he'll see it right away.


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## HolyMan (Mar 7, 2011)

No character is in stone yet. You will have to look at the group composition to see if a LE character would fit or make more waves than necessary.

Having a cleric of Iomedae (LG, justice, valor, honor) would probably be potential trouble. I have read that in one module their is a lot of info on Pharasma (N, fate, death, prophecy) so maybe look into that as well. 

I don't mind LE characters myself they tend to play by the rules (sometimes twisting the intent) and have a small code of honor just low morals.

Just want to make sure the fit in the group is good.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

[MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION] - Hobgoblin Sorcerer
[MENTION=59043]Walking Dad[/MENTION] - Dwarf Druid (arctic)
[MENTION=82765]GandalfMithrandir[/MENTION] - Human Fighter
[MENTION=8863]Orius[/MENTION] - Human Necromancer

Hey gang.  I would like to pitch the idea of being a Lawful Evil worshiper of Asmodeus to y'all (I'm playing the Duergar Inquisitor).  Judging by the group as is, there doesn't appear to be any religious differences, and I don't see any alignment issues yet... I would play this character as a bit of a racist with a superiority complex, but his ultimate goal is the same as everyone else's - be the first to resurrect the Lich.  Thoughts, concerns?  I'm not cemented on this concept - I would go LN to avoid 'rocking the boat' if necessary, or change deities entirely.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

Having a cleric of Iomedae (LG, justice, valor, honor) would probably be potential trouble. I have read that in one module their is a lot of info on Pharasma (N, fate, death, prophecy) so maybe look into that as well. 


Was this directed at myself or Hero?

On another note, what hp system are you using in that gestalt game?  All the characters seem to have more than pathfinder allows.


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## HolyMan (Mar 7, 2011)

That was at Herobizkit but if you wish to look into it Pharasma also has Healing as a domain. 

And they have two classes we went for first lvl they took 1/2 HP from largest HD class and Max from Lowest HD class.

So a Fighter/Rogue would have 13 + CON  + Misc HP. It is mostly because they are only four and it saves them from like taking Toughness and what not.

As they lvl up they will get MAX -2 from Highest HD class only.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh, snap - I didn't see @rangerjohn in the original post.  

Having a priest of Iomedae mixed with an evil Inquisitor of Asmodeus... I can't imagine they'd be at each other's throats, but it could make for some interesting role-play.  What do you think, rangerjohn?  Keep in mind that I'm an Inquisitor, not a Cleric....

And that our party will include a necromancer, a Hobgoblin, and a Duergar. 

If anything, it makes YOUR character the oddball...

and reminds me of this webcomic.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

Actually, how about this.  Goes back more to my original concept.  Probably makes more sense with the makeup of the group and it makes more sense for the gypsy fortune teller to become a rogue, than the zealot Christian.


Zeldana Female Half Varasian Elf Cleric of Pharasma
Alignment :Nuetral
Str 8      -1
Dex 19  +4
Con 12  +1
Int 12   +1
Wis 16  +3
Cha 13  +1

Dagger +4 tohit 1-4-1 dmg range
Icicle +4 RTA 1-6+1 dmg 30' range 6/day
Traits: Varasian Wanderer [Profession, fortune teller],
Subject of Study : +1 dmg vs undead

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus
Skills:
Knowledge [Relegion] 1 rank +3 cs +1 int = +5
Profession[Fortune Teller]: 1 rank +3 cs+1 trait+3 wis = +8
Perception +3 wis +2 keen senses +3 skill focus = +8
Sense Motive 1 rank +3 cs + +3 wis = +7

Domains:
Knowledge:You are a scholar and a sage of legends. In addition, you treat all Knowledge skills as class skills.

Lore Keeper (Sp): You can touch a creature to learn about its abilities and weaknesses. With a successful touch attack, you gain information as if you made the appropriate Knowledge skill check with a result equal to 15 + your cleric level + your Wisdom modifier.

Remote Viewing (Sp): Starting at 6th level, you can use clairvoyance/clairaudience at will as a spell-like ability using your cleric level as the caster level. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Domain Spells: 1st—comprehend languages, 2nd—detect thoughts, 3rd—speak with dead, 4th—divination, 5th—true seeing, 6th—find the path, 7th—legend lore, 8th—discern location, 9th—foresight.


Water [Ice]
Icicle (Sp): As a standard action, you can fire an icicle from your finger, targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The icicle deals 1d6 points of cold damage + 1 point for every two cleric levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Body of Ice (Su): At 8th level, you can transmute your body and equipment to ice for a period of time. It takes a standard action to take on the form of ice, and you can end the transmutation with a free action on your turn. When you take on the form of ice, you are immune to cold and have DR 5/—, but you take twice the normal amount of damage from fire. You can take on the form of ice for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. The rounds need not be consecutive.
Domain Spells: 1st—obscuring mist, 2nd—fog cloud, 3rd—water breathing, 4th—control water, 5th—ice storm, 6th—cone of cold, 7th—Freezing Sphere, 8th—horrid wilting, 9th—Polar Ray.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

Gypsy-types make a whole lotta sense in a Ravenlo... Carrion Crown setting. 

My only observation is, between all our characters, there will be massive overlap of Knowledge skills.

There's also the prestige class Harrower... uses cards to alter her spells and grant boons to herself and her party... but she can be any alignment except true neutral. :X


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

Just looking at her skills, she's a gambler's worst nightmare.  Sense motive to see through his poker face and perception in case he tries slight of hand.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

Where is the  Harrower?  I see the deck in the players' guide.  But not the class,neither there nor in the PRD.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

Actually, the knowledge domain was for flavor.  I planned on playing up the prophecy aspect rather than the sage.  If you notice her wisdom is a lot better than her intelligence.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

I'll PM the link I found it on... it's in the Pathfinder Campaign Settings p224.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

There is one thing, followers of Pharasma hate the undead as much Iomedae.

As for PM send to rangerjohn32202[MENTION=18269]CL[/MENTION]ear.net.

Nevermind found it.  So do you think she should be neutral good or chaotic neutral?   I guess chaotic neutral if we are going to be reviving liches.  Which will draw her away from Pharasma, hmm not sure how that would work.  Looks like there needs to be a new god of prophecy.  She seems to be loosing that portfolio anyhow.  According to the wiki entry.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

Now as for party conflict here is an interesting one.
Zeldana Female Half Varasian Elf
Cleric of Serenrae
Alignment NG
Favored Classes Cleric and Rogue
Str 8 -1

Dex 19 +2 racial adj +4

Con 12 +1

Int 12  +1

Wis 16 +3

Cha 13 +1



Scimitar +4 to hit 1-6-1 dmg   at 3rd become 1-6+4 plus possible SA
flanking don't see here backstabbing

Feats:  Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus(perception), Dervish Dance at 3rd

Traits: Varasian Wanderer [Perform: Dance]  +1 trait bonus always class skill
Subject of Study +1 dmg vs undead


Skills:
Perform: Dance 1 rank +1 cha +3 cs +1 trait = +6
Perception +3 wis +2 keen Senses +3 Skill Focus = +8
Knowledge Relegion 1 rank +1 int +3 cs = +5
Sense Motive 1 rank +3 Wis +3 cs = +7

Domains:
Fire: Firebolt 1-6 dmg 30' range touch attack 6/day

Sun:Sun's Blessing (Su): Whenever you channel positive energy to harm undead creatures, add your cleric level to the damage dealt. Undead do not add their channel resistance to their saves when you channel positive energy.

Spells:
0 Create Water, Light, Stabilize, 
1 Bless, Sanctuary + burning hands


This means I will accept your diabolist as a party member, but will be keeping and eye on him and trying to redeem him from his evil ways.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 7, 2011)

*Here we go the goddess of thieves*

Zeldana Female Half-Varasian Elf Cleric of Calistria
Favored Classes Cleric and Rogue
Alignment: CN

Hitpoint 10 8+1 con +1 FC
AC: 16 Touch 13 FF 13
CMB +1
CMD +4
Iniative: +5

Str 12 +1
Dex 17 +3
Con12  +1
Int 8 -1
Wis 16 +3
Cha 15 +2 racial adj +2

Fort +3
Ref +3
Will +5

scorpion whip +3 to hit 1-4+1 dmg reach 15' and ajacent
Daggers +3 to hit 1-4+1 dmg 
scimitar +5 to hit 1-6+1 dmg crit 18-20


Traits: Heirloom Weapon [scimitar] proficient, mw, +1 trait bonus to hit
Chance Savior :+2 iniative

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus*
Skills:
Perfom[dance] 1 rank +2 Cha +3 skill focus = +6
Perception +3 wisdom +2 keen senses = +5

Class Abilities:
Channel Positive Energy 5/day 1-6 healing to living or damage to undead.
Domains:
Chaos[Azata]:Elysium’s Call (Su): With a touch, you can imbue creatures with the spirit of Elysium, lifting their spirits and freeing them from bonds. The creatures touched can immediately reroll any failed saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities of the enchantment (charm) and enchantment (compulsion) subschools. In addition, targets receive a +2 sacred bonus on such saving throws and a +2 sacred bonus on CMB checks to escape a grapple. Finally, targets can ignore up to 5 feet of difficult terrain each round, as if they had the Nimble Moves feat. These bonuses last for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1), although the saving throw reroll only applies when the creature is touched. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. 6/day
Chaos Blade (Su): At 8th level, you can give a weapon touched the anarchic special weapon quality for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your cleric level. You can use this ability once per day at 8th level, and an additional time per day for every four levels beyond 8th.

Domain Spells: 1st—Expeditious Retreat, 2nd—align weapon (chaos only), 3rd—Fly, 4th—chaos hammer, 5th—dispel law, 6th—Planar Ally, 7th—word of chaos, 8th—cloak of chaos, 9th—summon monster IX (chaos spell only).

Trickery:Granted Powers: You are a master of illusions and deceptions. Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth are class skills.

Copycat (Sp): You can create an illusory double of yourself as a move action. This double functions as a single Mirror Image and lasts for a number of rounds equal to your cleric level, or until the illusory duplicate is dispelled or destroyed. You can have no more than one copycat at a time. This ability does not stack with the Mirror Image spell. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. 6/day

Master's Illusion (Sp): At 8th level, you can create an illusion that hides the appearance of yourself and any number of allies within 30 feet for 1 round per cleric level. This ability otherwise functions like the spell veil. The save DC to disbelieve this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 your cleric level + your Wisdom modifier. The rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Replacement Domain Spells: 1st—disguise self, 2nd—invisibility, 3rd—nondetection, 4th—confusion, 5th—false vision, 6th—mislead, 7th—screen, 8th—mass invisibility, 9th—time stop.

Spells:
0: detect magic, light, stabilze
1: Bless, Divine Favor + Expeditious Retreat


Equipment:
studded leather 25 gp wieght 20 lbs [typical female pulp, lot's of clevage etc.]
Scorpion Whip 5 gp 3lbs
Daggers x6 12 gp 6 lbs
scimitar 15 gp  4lbs
Etertainer's outfit [dancer's]
Backpack 2gp 2 lbs
Bedroll 1 sp 5lbs
Waterskin 1 gp 4 lbs
Ration, Trail 3 days  15 sp 3 lbs
Holy symbol, silver 25 gp 1 lb
Spell Component Pouch 5 gp 2 lbs
Torches 3 3 cp 3lbs
Flint and Steel 1 gp

Total: 92.63 gp   53 lbs medium encumbrance*


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## Walking Dad (Mar 7, 2011)

If someone still wants to play a follower of Pharasma, I found something in the Paizo blog:



> Thursday, February 10, 2011
> The _Advanced Player's Guide_  introduced a new concept for clerics—subdomains. In the upcoming _Inner Sea World Guide_,  we introduce two new domains unique to Golarion—the Scalykind domain  and the Void domain. Alas, there was no space to present the four  subdomains that went along with those two new domains. So I thought to  myself, why not throw those four subdomains up as a Golarion Day post?
> 
> 
> ...


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## HolyMan (Mar 7, 2011)

WD said:
			
		

> the art itself is from _Pathfinder Adventure Path_ #44's article about Pharasma.




Just to let you know the first module of Carrion Crown is_ Pathfinder Adventure Path_ #43 

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

[MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION]: I always get nervous when "rogue" and "undead-centric adventure" get used together, chiefly because of the "no sneak attack damage" versus said undead.  Truly, I like both concepts, and I was going to recommend Sarenrae as a deity - I wonder how you'd go about redeeming my diabolist, though... lol!

What is your ultimate goal in wanting to add rogue levels?  I'm curious; not trying to dissuade you from making the character you want.

Now, to give you some insight into my head.   If I were making a Gypsy, I'd go Cleric/Bard if I were to multi-class at all.  Bard has everything I'd want for Gypsy (spells, knowledge skills, Perform, Use Magic Device, ability to use cure wands and magic), and adding Cleric would just be icing... I've heard tons of arguments against multi-classing a spell-caster, but I don't know if this adventure path is expected to max at 20 or what.

I think too much.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

@HolyMan: Will you be using the slow, medium, or fast xp table?


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## HolyMan (Mar 7, 2011)

In PF undead are not immune to criticals or to sneak attack damage. So a Cleric/Rogue is going to do them some dmg I believe.

Also the adventure has 6 modules in it, the 6th saying it is intended for 16th lvl characters.

EDIT: Will not be using XP at all. I will assign adventure goals and as they are accomplished you will level up. This way no one starts a bar fight because they want to earn 200 more XP or some other sillyness. 

HM


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## Walking Dad (Mar 7, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> ..., chiefly because of the "no sneak attack damage" versus said undead... .




Corporeal undead are not immune to sneak attacks in Pathfinder


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, that solves that, then. 

Maaaaaybe I should start focusing on my OWN character, hey wot?

I'm the type that tries to complement everyone else's character concepts, filling in gaps and what not.  The hardest issue I'm having with the Inquisitor is that he could do most anything really well - I just need to decide what that will be.


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## HolyMan (Mar 7, 2011)

Well rangerjohn seems to have the cleric handled anyway he chooses to go. And the druid can add a couple more heal spells so that might free you up there.

I would look at the teamwork feats as you get those and can change them during a fight (I think that's how that works). So maybe you should assist GM's character in melee.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 7, 2011)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: I would be interested in taking the Steel Soul feat for my Duergar.  This would up his resistance to spells et al from +2 to +4.  It requires the hardy racial trait.  While the rules don't expressly identify the Duergar's spell resistance as 'hardy', it is identical to the regular dwarf trait.  Would you allow me to take this feat under such consideration?


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

Why rogue? you ask.  Like you say I'm trying to cover our holes.  Just because the adventure is undead centric, doesn't mean there wont be traps and locks.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Why rogue? you ask.  Like you say I'm trying to cover our holes.  Just because the adventure is undead centric, doesn't mean there wont be traps and locks.



I enjoy the theory behind character creation more than actually putting a concept to paper.

If opening locks and finding traps (Disable Device) is an issue, here you go:



			
				Regional Trait said:
			
		

> *Vagabond Child (urban) *
> 
> _You grew up among the outcasts and outlaws of your society, learning to forage and survive in an urban environment._
> *
> Benefit: *Select one of the following skills: Disable Device, Escape Artist, or Sleight of Hand. You gain a +1 trait bonus on that skill, and it is always a class skill for you.



If HM okays this, you can add Disable Device to your class skills... and never have to multi-class.


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I would be interested in taking the Steel Soul feat for my Duergar.  This would up his resistance to spells et al from +2 to +4.  It requires the hardy racial trait.  While the rules don't expressly identify the Duergar's spell resistance as 'hardy', it is identical to the regular dwarf trait.  Would you allow me to take this feat under such consideration?




This would be allowed. It seems that things like the APG only focus on Core races for the most part. No problem if you wish to take this for your character.

HM


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

I would have went that route but I need the skill points.  That eight has to go somewhere.


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

Just post the cleric rogue you are thinking on in the RG I will have time to finally go over characters for this by this weekend.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

Here's the link to my character's work in progress: PEACH it!

Daggal Harjyr :: (Read-Only) - Myth-Weavers


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> I would have went that route but I need the skill points.  That eight has to go somewhere.



STR would have been the likely choice for that if you were opting for mostly ranged combat (or Weapon Finesse as a feat and high Dex).  I noticed that you went half-elf instead of full elf - the elven bonus to Dex and Int could have come in handy to off-set that.

This is all at work to give you a cleric/rogue without having to multi-class.

Elf: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con
Feat: Weapon Finesse (so you can melee with light weapons and rapier if need be)
Trait: Vagabond Child (for the Disable Device as class skill)

My head is stuck in char gen mode.  I need a break.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

Well the Cleric of Pharasma could do it.  But she would be against the undead, not for them.  Actually, they all would except the follower of Callistia.  So are we siding with the undead or against?


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

Well the adventure has a cult trying to resurrect the Whispering Tyrant (a lich who long ago ruled the land). Now you all can decide how you want to run with this --

a) stop the cult and save the day

b) release the lich yourself and see if he will reward you.

c) a little of both, beat the cult in releasing the lich and then beat the lich to save the day.

HM


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## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Well the adventure has a cult trying to resurrect the Whispering Tyrant (a lich who long ago ruled the land). Now you all can decide how you want to run with this --
> 
> a) stop the cult and save the day
> 
> ...




c sounds to be the most fun!


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

Well if that is the consensus it would have to be the follower of Callistia.  All the others would not support reviving a lich.  It would be an abomination to Pharisma and Iomedae.  Probably, Serenrae as well, unless there was a way it could be redeemed.  Callistia  and her followers don't care about much of anything.  But she would be the one most likely to mc as a rogue.

Doh! misread that.  We would be killing the lich.  Any of them could do that.  I don't know why the follower of Pharasma sounds the most fun.  Definitely, not the most powerful, but the most fun.  And connected to the adventure as well.
Win win.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

Haha yes, indeed... beat everyone and take everything.   Smite the weak and reward the strong!  Hoody hoo!

Also @rangerjohn - the elf/weapon finesse/vagabond child combo works with any priesthood. There are many interesting ways you could tie in a (former?) life of crime to your priesthood's calling.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> ...the elf/weapon finesse/vagabond child combo works with any priesthood.



Elf is not a very good priest because the stat bonuses are sub-optimal for this class (med armor + shields, wisdom used for casting).
Only weapon finesse able weapons and low str without any source of bonus damage (example: sneak attack) gives only poor melee capabilities. Also clerics can use shields and shields can reduce your attack bonus wwith weapon finesse.
vagabound gives disable device, but perception (needed to find traps) is still not a cleric class skill.

Half-elves can get a wis bonus, a free weapon proficiency , and one can choose both rogue and cleric as favored classes.

Look at the Urban ranger for a good trap monkey with decent damage and divine spell casting at higher levels.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

No channeling or domain abilities with rangers.


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

I think WD was suggesting Half-elf Cleric/Ranger(urban) as your classes.

HM


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## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> No channeling or domain abilities with rangers.



Not denying this. But you cannot have everything .

And as HM 'said', a cleric ranger with a decent str and wisdom will work better at fighting and finding traps than a cleric with high dex and the vagabond trait.

For maximized casting, you cannot multiclass any way.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Elf is not a very good priest because the stat bonuses are sub-optimal for this class (med armor + shields, wisdom used for casting).



I see where you're coming from - but the gentleman in question is trying to build a cleric/rogue hybrid (there are rules to support multi-class hybrids in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana - wonder if HM would support that?). I don't know how to accomplish the reverse - make a Rogue with some Cleric goodness - without making a Bard and taking the same feats I've suggested.







> Only weapon finesse able weapons and low str without any source of bonus damage (example: sneak attack) gives only poor melee capabilities. Also clerics can use shields and shields can reduce your attack bonus wwith weapon finesse.



If this character is designed as a ranged combatant, medium armor reduces her movement (but does allow up to a +3 bonus for Dex) and can't use a shield with a bow or crossbow anyhow... unless she uses a buckler.  The Weapon Finesse is to off-set her already dismal melee ability by allowing her to hit more often, even if it's a -1 to damage, and rapiers have a high crit.



> vagabound gives disable device, but perception (needed to find traps) is still not a cleric class skill.



That, I did not catch.  I'd need to dig around some more to figure that one out. 



> Half-elves can get a wis bonus, a free weapon proficiency, and one can choose both rogue and cleric as favored classes.



Free weapon proficiency?  I missed that one, unless you're talking about the Cleric's favored weapon proficiency.



> Look at the Urban ranger for a good trap monkey with decent damage and divine spell casting at higher levels.



Or a Bard.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

That wouldn't work either.  He would have a max dex of 12, if he had high str.  Which would mean he would have to wear medium armor for decent ac.  Which would a penalty to skills.  So your talking about a 2 or 3 disable device by the time all is said and done.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

As for the free weapon proficiency, I believe he's talking about the alternate racial ability that replaces the skill focus.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> And as HM 'said', a cleric ranger with a decent str and wisdom will work better at fighting and finding traps than a cleric with high dex and the vagabond trait.



Well, sure! A Ranger is better than a Cleric at fighting by default... but she could still go ranged-combat specialized with low strength and high Dex. 



> For maximized casting, you cannot multiclass any way.



HM alluded to the fact that the modules top out at 16th.  That gives 13 levels of cleric to get a 7th-level slot (which gives Rez, but by then the adventure will largely be over) with 3 to play with, or 11 cleric levels to get a 6th-level slot with 5 to play with.

If [MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION] still wants to multi, it's more advantageous to take the higher skill-point class as his first level and bump his Int up, which the Elf +2 Int does. Even if he takes a 10 Int, the +2 will give him an extra 4 skill points which could then go into his Disable Device added on to whatever his starting class would be.

Here's why I design characters the way I do:
- most games I play top out somewhere between 5th-10th level.  
- the sessions tend to be spaced far apart
- I strongly dislike first level
- in PbP's, this time is stretched even further

So, I tend to stack the low levels as tightly as possible to get the character I want to play NOW, knowing that looking forward to something further down the line may never come to pass.

My play style has also evolved to High Dex/Low armor type characters.  Even my fighters tend to be Dex-based or multi-classed with a Dex-connected theme.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

HM has hinted the cleric will be needed before the rogue.  As for skill points to put into disable device, you can't put more than one in at first level.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> That wouldn't work either.  He would have a max dex of 12, if he had high str.  Which would mean he would have to wear medium armor for decent ac.  Which would a penalty to skills.  So your talking about a 2 or 3 disable device by the time all is said and done.



Exactly.  Rogue focus = light armor + High Dex.  And if you're going to have high Dex and skills, you might as well build your character around that - hence the Elf race, ranged combat and Weapon Finesse.



> As for the free weapon proficiency, I believe he's talking about the alternate racial ability that replaces the skill focus.



Elf gives you lots of weapons, including a longsword (which can't be finessed, but the odds of finding a magic one is high).  You'd lose that free skill focus, though.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I see where you're coming from - but the gentleman in question is trying to build a cleric/rogue hybrid (there are rules to support multi-class hybrids in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana - wonder if HM would support that?).



But why does he want to play a rogue? And can the wishes be fulfilled by another class, too?



> I don't know how to accomplish the reverse - make a Rogue with some Cleric goodness - without making a Bard and taking the same feats I've suggested.



I think this wouldn't be the same. Still no channeling or domains.
(The inquisitor has a domain, for example.)



> If this character is designed as a ranged combatant, medium armor reduces her movement (but does allow up to a +3 bonus for Dex) and can't use a shield with a bow or crossbow anyhow... unless she uses a buckler.  The Weapon Finesse is to off-set her already dismal melee ability by allowing her to hit more often, even if it's a -1 to damage, and rapiers have a high crit.



Mithral and MW allow for even more, but the point is that he can already gain a decent AC.
And he would need a decent Str anyway to carry his stuff and to do damage with the mighty variant of the bows,



> That, I did not catch.  I'd need to dig around some more to figure that one out.



Eyes and Ears of the City trait.



> Free weapon proficiency?  I missed that one, unless you're talking about the Cleric's favored weapon proficiency.





> Ancestral Arms: Some half-elves receive training in an unusual weapon. Half-elves with this racial trait receive Exotic Weapon Proficiency or Martial Weapon Proficiency with one weapon as a bonus Feat at 1st level. This racial trait replaces the adaptability racial trait.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

The skill focus probably isn't a biggie, but losing the two favored classes would probably hurt.  That's a sp or hp every level.  Plus the hp loss from -2 con.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> HM has hinted the cleric will be needed before the rogue.  As for skill points to put into disable device, you can't put more than one in at first level.



I'm sure a Cleric who can area-effect damage undead would be highly useful in a starting adventure that has been identified as heading into an undead-infested something-or-other... 

If you take the Vagabond Child trait, you get Disable Device as a class skill, which allows you to max out the allowable skill points (4).  You need a higher Int than 8, though.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> Exactly.  Rogue focus = light armor + High Dex.  And if you're going to have high Dex and skills, you might as well build your character around that - hence the Elf race, ranged combat and Weapon Finesse.
> 
> Elf gives you lots of weapons, including a longsword (which can't be finessed, but the odds of finding a magic one is high).  You'd lose that free skill focus, though.



Rogue gets sneak attack to off-set the low Str.

Not arguing that the elf is good for rogues and wizards. I only dislike them for clerics.

---

You are posting fast  

You don't loose Multi-Talented by loosing Adaptability.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I'm sure a Cleric who can area-effect damage undead would be highly useful in a starting adventure that has been identified as heading into an undead-infested something-or-other...
> 
> ...



Don't underestimate the healing from the energy channel.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

In which case, I better put that feat into something besides weapon finesse.  I'm not going to be doing any damage if I hit, will have sub-par hps and be wearing leather armor.   Melee would be the death of the character.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

@WalkingDad, it's clear to me that we have different (and imo interesting) character design philosophies, and I'm enjoying the back and forth.

[MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION] mentioned that he wanted to fill the holes in our group that appear to be missing: a rogue and a cleric.

He wanted as best of both worlds he could - he opted for multi-classing.  As an old-school multi-classing fiend, I'm trying to give him most of what he wants without needing to multi-class.

From what I've read, channeling energy isn't a HUGE deal at lower levels, it's a bonus at higher levels, but isn't really that much of a punch (especially if said PC has a low Charisma).  Domains, well... those ARE pretty snazzy, which is why I opted to present a rogue-ish cleric which isn't built around the standard cleric armor/weapon profs and standard battle caster schtick.

I only suggested the Bard if [MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION] 's heart is leaning more to Rogue than Cleric; he'd still get healing items and such, but the focus would be on his rogue-ness instead of his Clerical spell-might.

To be fair, of most clerics I've played, I have opted for light armor/high Dex builds, too.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

WD the mult-talented problem wasn't directed at you.  I realize its confusing, I'm arguing two points at the same time.  That was directed at Hero, who wants me to play an elf.  I was pointing out that would cost more than it would give in this case.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Don't underestimate the healing from the energy channel.



I just re-read the channeling, and WOAH, they made it SO MUCH BETTER than I thought.  Even more reason to go Cleric. 

I'm posting fast because I'm sitting in a computer lab reading and anticipating posts.  I have class in 20 minutes or so though. 

Talking about character builds with actual players I haven't played with is awesome.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

Uh, a minimum of four area effect heals or undead killers will not be noticed?   Seems like that's most of what I do in the Dwarven Halls.


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## renau1g (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok so I'm think Aberrant bloodline for the sorcerer. 

Anyone know any feats for sorcerers? I struggle with feat choice for spellcasters in 3.5/PF


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## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> In which case, I better put that feat into something besides weapon finesse.  I'm not going to be doing any damage if I hit, will have sub-par hps and be wearing leather armor.   Melee would be the death of the character.



Toughness is a great feat IMHO. Just avoid melee by taking careful 5 ft steps before shooting


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> In which case, I better put that feat into something besides weapon finesse.  I'm not going to be doing any damage if I hit, will have sub-par hps and be wearing leather armor.   Melee would be the death of the character.



I think you're underestimating your abilities based on a +1 or -1 point adjustement.  Leather armor and High Dex isn't "death", nor is missing one HP/level that's a bonus instead of standard (personally, I'd take the +1 skill point, but I'm mad, I tells ya).  If your schtick is ranged, you'll be expected to stay ranged.  -1 to damage sucks, but isn't the be-and-end all of a character who is forced into melee.  Think about those poor wizards... which you're not.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

One I wouldn't take a wizard into melee, but they can have a better ac with mage armor.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Toughness is a great feat IMHO. Just avoid melee by taking careful 5 ft steps before shooting



HP's don't matter as much if you're a ranged combatant...  and 5-foot steps mean the death of everything.   I've never seen a more useful combat tactic than ranged weapons and 5-foot steps.

We're also forgetting that HM is going to be rewarding characters with stat increases, and magic items/spells can boost a low-strength character in a pinch. You don't need to be strong all the time, just when it counts! LOL

Also also, crossbows don't depend on strength, nor do Firearms, though the cost far outweighs their utility (Exotic weapon proficiency, thousands of GP, and rarity of gunpowder).


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

That was my point on that.  To stay at ranged and not worry about melee.  Hence no weapon finesse.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> One I wouldn't take a wizard into melee, but they can have a better ac with mage armor.



And Priests can have a better AC with leather (+2), buckler (+1) and at least a 12 Dex (+1)... and they don't have to cast a spell to do it. Then you can add things like Shield of Faith (+2 AC), Hide from Undead, Sanctuary... and Divine Favor cancels out your strength penalty with +1 to hit and damage.  Clerics are awesome, given time to prepare... and as a ranged combatant, you'd have the time.

Am I correct in assuming you generally play warriors?


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> That was my point on that.  To stay at ranged and not worry about melee.  Hence no weapon finesse.



True that.  I was more concerned with off-setting your melee deficiency over making better what's already good.  Point Blank Shot is the winning feat in that case.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I think you're underestimating your abilities based on a +1 or -1 point adjustement.  Leather armor and High Dex isn't "death", nor is missing one HP/level that's a bonus instead of standard (personally, I'd take the +1 skill point, but I'm mad, I tells ya).  If your schtick is ranged, you'll be expected to stay ranged.  -1 to damage sucks, but isn't the be-and-end all of a character who is forced into melee.  Think about those poor wizards... which you're not.





Elf would be the same skill points as a half-elf that had the second favored class.  But -1 hp because of the -2 con.   That was my point.


Half Elf 12 con +1 hp level, either +1 skill point= the +2 int from elf or another +1 hp per level.

Elf 10 con, only one favored class which means at best equal skill points to the half elf and -1 hp per level.


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## rangerjohn (Mar 8, 2011)

No I generally play clerics.  My point was with these ability scores and first level.

Spells are limited resource right now.  A mage armor lasting an hour is a lot more efficient than a shield of faith lasting a minute.  A cleric usually wears heavier armor, but in this case that would be detrimental, especially with an eight strength.


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## renau1g (Mar 8, 2011)

Heck bows don't require strength, just mighty ones do right?


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

For @Orius EDIT: added mention so you don't miss this in the chaos the thread has become.

Please copy and paste the sheet below into your RG spot as this is easier for me to check and I have a lot of checking to do.  (everyone there is a blank sheet in the RG now)

I have filled in some of it as I re-read here in the OOC you are not familiar with PF. Note: You have not yet taken your Favored Class Bonus (+1 HP, +1 Skill Rank, or +1 spell added to Spellbook)

Listed fixes needed in *red*. Thanks in advance.

[sblock=Dareth Randar]
[sblock=Game Info]
Race: Human
Class: Wizard (necromancer)
Level: 1
Alignment: Neutral
Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnome,* Linguist language needed*
Deity: *?? can look* here *for one and edit it in*[/sblock]
[sblock=Abilities]
STR: 12 +1
DEX: 13 +1
CON: 14 +2
INT: 16 +3
WIS: 13 +1
CHA: 12 +1
rolls

*missing +2 racial bonus to any one stat*[/sblock]
[sblock=Combat]
HP: 08 = [1d6 = 6] + 2 (CON) + 0 (favored class bonus)
AC: 11 = 10  + 1 (DEX), 
AC Touch: 11 = 10 + 1 (DEX)
AC Flatfooted: 10 = 10 + 0 (MISC)
INIT: +1 = +1 (DEX)
BAB: +0 = +0 (Wizard)
CMB: +2 = +1 (STR) + 1 (BAB)
CMD: 12 = 10 + 1 (STR) + 1 (DEX) + 0 (BAB)
Fort: +2 = +0 (base) + 2 (CON)
Reflex: +1 = +0 (base) + 1 (DEX)
Will: +3 = +2 (base) + 1 (WIS)
Speed: 30'
ASF: 0%
Damage Reduction: NA
Spell Resistance: NA[/sblock]
[sblock=Weapon Stats]
Quarterstaff: +1 = +0 (BAB) + 1 (STR)/DMG = 1d6+1(B), CRIT:20x2
Quarterstaff(FA): -3/-7 = +0 (BAB) + 1 (STR) - 4/8 (double weapon)/DMG = 1d6+1/1d6+0(B), CRIT:20x2
Dagger(melee): +1 = +0 (BAB) + 1 (STR)/DMG = 1d4+1(P or S), CRIT:19-20x2
Dagger(range): +1 = +0 (BAB) + 1 (DEX)/DMG = 1d4+1(P or S), CRIT:19-20x2, Range: 10'
Lt. Crossbow: +1 = +0 (BAB) + 1 (DEX)/DMG = 1d8(P), CRIT:19-20x2, Range: 80'
[/sblock]
[sblock=Racial Traits]
* *+2 to one ability score* - *list stat chosen here*
* *Medium* - (no bonuses or penalties based on size)
* *Normal speed *- Base speed is 30 feet
* *Bonus feat* - +1 feat at 1st lvl
* *Skilled* - +1 skill rank at 1st level, and +1 skill rank whenever a level is gained
* *Languages* - Common 
* *Favored Class* - Wizard[/sblock]
[sblock=Class Features]
*Arcane Bond:* *need to chose item or familiar*
*Arcane School:* Necromancy - (Forbidden Schools Enchantment and Illusion)
 - Command Undead: 6/day (save DC 11) - channel energy 30' radius
 - Grave Touch: 6/day (no save) - Touch attack to make creature touch shaken for 1 round - already shaken creature becomes frightened for 1 round if HD is lower than Wizard lvl.
*Cantrips*
*Bonus Feat:*  Scribe Scroll
*Spells:* (INT) arcane - prepared
*Spellbook:* Start with all cantrips and 3 + INT modifier 1st lvl spells; gain 2 spells per wizard lvl (of any level of spell he can currently cast)[/sblock]
[sblock=Feats & Traits]
- Prof. with club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff
- Scribe Scroll (wizard)
- Command Undead (wizard)
- Spell Focus: Necromancy (human)
- *1st lvl feat needed*

Traits:
Classically Schooled - +1 trait bonus to Spellcarft (becomes class skill if not already)
*trait from Players Guide needed*
[/sblock]
[sblock=Skills]
*Skill Ranks:* 6 = 2 (Wizard) + 3 (INT) + 1 (human) x 1 + 0 (FC)
*Max Ranks:* 1 *ACP:* -3

*Skills:*
Knowledge(arcana): +7 = 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + 3 (INT)
Knowledge(religion): +7 = 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + 3 (INT)
Linguistics: +7 = 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + 3 (INT)
Perception: +2 = 1 (rank) + 1 (WIS)
Spellcraft: +8 = 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + 3 (INT) + 1 (trait)
*1 rank left to spend*[/sblock]
[sblock=Spells]
*Spells Per Day:*
Cantrips - Choose 3 (unlimited casting)
1st LvL - 3 = 1 (wizard) + 1 (ability) + 1 (necromancy only)

*Spellbook:*
Cantrips - All
1st LvL -  _detect undead, identify, mage armor, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, summon monster I 


_Note: Enchantment and Illusion spells take up two slots when prepared.[/sblock]
[sblock=Equipment]

```
[U]Item                         Cost  Weight[/U]
Travler's outfit             free    0lb
Quarterstaff                  0gp    4lb                                  
Light crossbow               35gp    4lb
-20 bolts                     2gp    2lb
Dagger                        2gp    1lb
Spellbook                    free    3lb
Spell component pouch         5gp    2lb
Bedroll                       1sp    5lb
rope(50', hemp)               1gp   10lb
10' pole                      5cp    8lb
Ink(1 vial)                   8gp    0lb
Inkpen                        1sp    0lb
Parchment, 5 sheets           1gp    0lb
Waterskin                     1gp    4lb
Rations, trail(5 days)      2.5gp    5lb
```
*Treasure:* 12gp, 2sp, 5cp Gems:

*Total weight carried:* 48lb - medium load
*Maximum weight possible: *
0-43 (light)
44-86 (medium)
87-130 (heavy)[/sblock]
[sblock=Details]
*Size:* M
*Gender:* Male
*Age:
Height:
Weight:
Hair Color: *dark
* Eye Color: *blue
* Skin Color:* fair
*Apperance:* Dareth is of average height and build. He has fair skin, dark hair, blue  eyes, and wears a short trimmed goatee.
*Deamenaor:*  He is amoral, caring only about  gaining magical knowledge, hungering for the power it will give him.[/sblock] 
[sblock=Background]Dareth Randar is the son of two wizards. He inherited his parents' gift  for magic, but never shared the sense of justice they tried to instill  in him while growing up. Upon discovering that their son was studying  the arts of necromancy which they abhorred, they disinherited him, and  he turned to a life of adventure.  [/sblock]
[sblock=Adventure Log] None yet[/sblock]
[sblock=Level Ups] N/A only first level[/sblock] [/sblock]

Still needed is favored class bonus picked and spice item (as well as things listed in red). 

That's one character done. 

11 to go.

HM


----------



## renau1g (Mar 8, 2011)

renau1g said:


> Ok so I'm think Aberrant bloodline for the sorcerer.
> 
> Anyone know any feats for sorcerers? I struggle with feat choice for spellcasters in 3.5/PF




Any thoughts? Just didn't want it to get missed in the flurry of Cleric discussion


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

hey renau1g (your right about bows) it looks like an Aberrant sorcerer is all about combat maneuvers if you look at the bonus feats they get to chose from.

But you don't start get any of those till 7th lvl. By then you will have most of what you want. Silent spell might be good then. 

The Long Limbs ability looks odd. Only usable for melee touch attacks, and you get enlarge person at that lvl too. So you grow gaining 10' reach or 15' with melee touch attack? hmm... maybe a few spells based around that?

Feats
1st lvl - Toughness, Dodge, Expanded Arcana

But I might look at
1st lvl - Improved Unarmed Strike
3rd lvl - Improved Grapple (extra bonuses specially with enlarge and auto touch spells?)

You would need a touch spell with no Somatic component that would be hard. Maybe an SLA from Magical Talent (touch of fatigue?)

You could take Minor Spell Expertise at 9th lvl (that is a ways off) and get a first lvl spell SLA (shocking grasp) twice per day. Till then you would need concentration checks.

Just some thoughts to confuse you more. Sorry

HM


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## jackslate45 (Mar 8, 2011)

So, great theory craters, as the rogue for the other group, I ask for your insight:

Two-weapon Rogue vs Dancing Dervish? Link to RG


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Elf would be the same skill points as a half-elf that had the second favored class.  But -1 hp because of the -2 con.   That was my point.
> 
> Half Elf 12 con +1 hp level, either +1 skill point= the +2 int from elf or another +1 hp per level.
> 
> Elf 10 con, only one favored class which means at best equal skill points to the half elf and -1 hp per level.



Oh no, I've just gone cross-eyed.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong scores, your array went like this:
8, 13, 12, 17, 12, 16

So, if I were making a Priest with a heavy Rogue Background, I might go something like this...
(STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA)
8, 17, 13, 12, 16, 12... with racial adjustments, this becomes
8, 19, 11, 14, 16, 12

This would give you:
+4 to hit with ranged, as well as +4 AC (without _mage armor_ lol) and 1 ability point away from +5
no bonus or penalty to HP, but 1 ability point away from +1/level
+2 skills at max (2+2 for Int)
Perception remains cross-class, but high Wis (+3) off-sets that a bit.

Yes, there are trade-offs, but there are ALWAYS trade-offs when you're trying to milk two classes out of one.  Unless you're a Bard. ^_^


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> Two-weapon Rogue vs Dancing Dervish? Link to RG



@jackslate45:

I'm the first to admit, when it comes to crunching actual numbers with damage and probabilities and such, I'm not the best.

Based on your +4 Dex, though, here's what I see.

TWF: Two attacks a round at +0, doing +2 and +1 damage for your STR.  Damage dice based on weapons, but probably 1d6 (scimitar) and 1d6 (short sword) unless you take a different Ancestral Weapon.

DD: One attack a round at +4, doing +4 damage for your DEX. Damage 1d6+4.

Given that you need Weapon Finesse to qualify for Dancing Dervish, you probably won't get it until, what, level 3?  I don't know how fast feats are earned in PF.

Aside:

Now, if you end up with Weapon Finesse, TWF becomes more interesting... if you stick with the weapons as listed, you can go two attacks at +2... Rapier (1d6+2, 18-20/x2) and Short Sword (1d6+1, 19-20/x2) if you want to max the crit chance.

Or...

Take Kukri as your Ancestral Weapon.  With Weapon Finesse...
Now you're swinging twice a round at +2, Rapier (1d6+2, 18-20/x2) and Kukri (1d4+1, 18-20/x2).
Or paired Kukri. Because they look cool.


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

[MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION]: You're the Hobbo sorcerer, right?

*peruses stuff about Sorcerers*

I'm in the same boat.  Maybe a weapon prof with a reach weapon?  We still don't have a 'face' in our motley crew, and you're going to have an 18 Cha... maybe focus on some choice Social skills?


----------



## renau1g (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah, I might see what's what in the social arena. Maybe Persuasive...


----------



## jackslate45 (Mar 8, 2011)

I can qualify for either dancing dervish or TWF by level 2.  As a rogue talent I can get a combat feat, and both TWF/dancing dervish count as them.  A separate talent allows me access to weapon finesse.  So i could have:

1: TWF
2: Finesse

OR

1: Finesse
2: TWF


OR

1: finesse
2: dancing dervish


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## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> I can qualify for either dancing dervish or TWF by level 2.  As a rogue talent I can get a combat feat, and both TWF/dancing dervish count as them.  A separate talent allows me access to weapon finesse.  So i could have:
> 
> 1: TWF, 2: Finesse
> 
> ...



Given those possibilities, and that I'm a sucker for 'new' stuff, I'd go Dervish.  Finesse will allow you to hit with any finesse-able weapon at a +4 (and +2 damage), and when your Dervish kicks in, switch to your scimitar and you win twice (with +4/+4).

Too bad it doesn't apply to the elven curve blade...


----------



## Walking Dad (Mar 8, 2011)

Dervish is really good if the DM allows it.
Sadly he isn't:


HolyMan said:


> ...
> 
> *SKills and Feats:* Core and APG only.
> ...





Keep an eye on your encumbrance if you go with str 8.


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

[MENTION=95784]jackslate45[/MENTION]: With no Dervish, the path is clear.  Are you going for raw damage or relying on fancy maneuvers?


----------



## jackslate45 (Mar 8, 2011)

I asked that very question to HM, and he okayed it: Link

Catch being, I have to make it awesome looking. So im thinking of inventing my own swordship school for it. As he gets better (rogue talents) he gets better moves etc. etc.

EDIT: granted, he Okayed it back in December, so he could have changed his mind.  But last I know I was ok.


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 8, 2011)

Well, if you're going to 'borrow' the feat from the "Al'Qadim" of Pathfinder, you might as well go whole hog with it...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltcMueAFEl0[/ame]

On a more serious note, watch this guy - about a minute in.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydS810f0us4&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

So, if I were making a Priest with a heavy Rogue Background, I might go something like this...
(STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA)
8, 17, 13, 12, 16, 12... with racial adjustments, this becomes
8, 19, 11, 14, 16, 12

This character would never get selective channeling.  Would have more skill points than he needs, I know crazy for a rogue.  But being the majority would be cross-class, there is little point.  The ones I would take would be pointless anyhow.  stealth cc, perception cc though I would still take it, climb cc w/ a str penalty to boot plus encumbrance issues, etc.   The only ones I can see taking are disable device, perception, and either sense motive or knowledge [relegion].  No reason to take fortune teller with a non-varasian.

Other [benifits] of elf  longsword attack penalty, bow damage penalty vs x-bow, so that just leaves elven immunities and elven magic.  Oh and rapier proficiency if the half elf didn't take ancestral arms.  This for something that would not be used by choice.  There would be a damage penalty, and no sneak attack or dervish dance to make up for it.

Where as the half elf gets either spell focus or ancestral arms, can be half varasian [ pure flavor, I admit], no penalty to con.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

Just me but I would go Half-elf and array like this

STR: 12
DEX: 12
CON: 10 ( 8 with racial adjustment)
INT: 13
WIS: 17
CHA: 16

It is a standard cleric array and the rogue I take (probably only three lvls btw to get to 2d6 sneak attack) is extra.

So at first lvl I have things to keep all characters alive (specially mine) and skills would be Know(religion), Sense Motive, and Disable Device. 

Feats:
Skill Focus Disable Device
Combat Expertise (looking for Improved Feint at 3rd lvl)

I would be a cleric who has a shady past he's trying not to turn back to but after lvl one he sees the need to use all the skills he learned through out his life time. So at lvl 2 I take a lvl of rogue to simulate those skills from his past and are resurfacing.

Skills: Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Intimidate, Know(local), Perception, Swim, Sense Motive

I wouldn't build this character to be heavy combat (melee or ranged) just average spell buffs and stat increases as the game goes will help. He would be the skill monkey and healer. Tank secondary role as I would go breastplate, heavy shield, and Combat Expertise don't care to much about the ACP as I can drop the shield and have guidance for out of combat skill checks.

But like I said only rogue up to third lvl for 2d6 extra dmg with Improved Feint. Probably trapspotter for my rogue talent.

But that's me. 

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

Well... I can only do so much.

I can't wait to see what you make when you finally decide.


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

You'd be a great lock picker, but only +5 on disable traps.


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## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

At first lvl it would be...

 +5 = 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + 1 (DEX) + 3 (feat) + 1 (magic) -4 (ACP)

Let's see I would have at lvl 3 a Disable Device of...

 +11 = 3 (ranks) + 3 (class skill) + 1 (DEX) + 3 (feat) + 2 (item) +1 (magic) - 3 (ACP)

The magic is guidance and this assumes you drop the shield and have a mw breastplate at 3rd lvl (which you should) along with mw thieves tools.

Not bad I would say. At higher lvls you might have lighter armor that has a better magical bonus or made with better material who knows?

HM


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Right, I was referring to first level.  That's with the traits vegabond child and on the payroll.  On the payroll the only way you could afford a breastplate at first level.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

No that -4 at first lvl is from scalemail. 

the trait bonus raises all those by one and would be good fluff wise as well. But elven reflexes will help with the init but your character and could go a hundred ways.

The whole half-elf outcast growing up in the streets and then finds his calling, but then learns he needs to return to his old ways appeals to me.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

Armored Coat: Same price as Scale Mail, -1 AC less, only -2 ACP.

Also, change stats thus: Dex 16, Cha 13, Int 12. 

Sooo...

+9 = 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + 3 (DEX) + 3 (feat) + 1 (magic) -2 (ACP), or +10/+11 with light/no armor.


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

You have to have the trait in order to have disable device as a class skill as a cleric.  Not to mention its what gives you the background.  But that's fluff.


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Int 13, combat expertise, bluff skill, 16 cha, I believe is all for the improved feint feat.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

WD checking your "dwarf of the frozen north". lol

- Experience spot not needed but I may need to make a Harrow Card spot somewhere to keep track of which card you have.
- Stats rolls seems you missed a 14.
rolled, 17, 10, 13, 14, 17, 14 and you have stats listed as
STR: 13
DEX: 17
CON: 16 (14 +2 racial)
INT: 13
WIS: 19 (17 +2 racial)
CHA: 08 (10 -2 racial)

Looks like STR or INT need changed to the other 14.

- Spontaneous casting not listed as class feature
- chainmail (while allowed since it's medium) is a prohibited armor, druids may only wear padded, leather, and hide from the Core rulebook with no penalties. I would add quilted cloth and wooden to the list from the APG.
- you have a great axe but no stats listed for it under weapons (and are not prof.)
- club is not listed under your equipment and should becuase it adds to weight.
- no spice item taken?? something cool (or cold) like an amulet that looks like a snowflake or the weapon and or armor you want to use being rimmed in frost. Please let me know. 
- ah see have to redo equipment note at the bottom.
- no traits taken?

HM


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

oh right so my numbers are off unless you take the trait sorry.

But once you take a lvl in rogue Disable becomes a class skill forever. So I would just skip the trait and suffer at first lvl because at second I would be a lvl 1 rogue and get the class skill then. I mean just having a little in Disable Device is better than the group having no one with it.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] - I have a partial in the RG.  Will update when it's complete, but you could take a look anyhoo?


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

I have let me know when you are done. I am working my way down the list.

HM


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Uh, someone with 17 wis would realize two in disarming traps is enough to have it go off in your face.  No thank you, btw no take 20 when disarming traps.  Like I say you would be fine opening locks, but anything else....


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

As I said he would be doing it half-heartedly. And if a trap or two did go off...

a)they would have gone off if you have no rank in disable device anyway

b) gives him RP reason to get his skills back to where they were in his youth

Fun both ways

HM


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Uh, not in his face they wouldn't.  Either he notices them and gives them a wide berth or ....  So no disarming traps until second level it looks like.


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Also, you couldn't put points in every level as a cleric without the trait.  That and bluff would probably be the most often used skills.  The trait may be a must.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Also, you couldn't put points in every level as a cleric without the trait.  That and bluff would probably be the most often used skills.  The trait may be a must.




Not sure I follow what your saying here.

Yes you would have less points to spend when you lvl up as a cleric but once your at say +12 (+15 with no ACP) (character lvl 5th - cleric3/rogue2??) would you need to add a rank every lvl after that?

HM


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Yes.  Disable device difficulty classes are some of the highest in the game.  With the stiffest penalty for failure.  Depending on the situation it could result in a TPK.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

Then it's good you wish to mutli-class and help the group. I don;t understand the highlighted part below.



rangerjohn said:


> Also, you couldn't put points in every level as a cleric without the trait.  That and bluff would probably be the most often used skills.  The trait may be a must.




Why can't you? I know it eats the few points available but what other skills would you want to raise?

HM


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

GM's axe-for-hire

- Experience spot not needed
- Why didn't you just keep the stats in order you would have gotten a free +2/+2 feat(athletics, persuasive) one more skill rank(intimidate?) and could have raised the CHA after the first module?? Time to change things if you wish. Nothing in stone till we start.
- INIT should be +3 = + 1 (DEX) + 2 (trait)
- Speed should be 20'
- ACP is -5
- add a * under will saves because of +2 trait bonus vs fear (and later bravery bonus)
- spice item maybe something that helps your character remember his lost family?

HM


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Oh, I'm confusing disarm traps with open locks dc.  Unless its a spell the character could disarm any mundane trap with a take 10.

5 ranks +1 dex +3 cs +3 skill focus +2 masterwork tools +1 guidance +1 trait. -1
 acp mithral armor +10 take ten = 25.

Now any magic traps on the other hand.


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

We're also forgetting that Clerics don't have the Perception skill, which means he can't even look for traps...  though Elves and Half-Elves do get a +2 to it.

Trickery domain grants Bluff, Stealth, and Disguise as class skills.

Here's an interesting idea: the 'cult' of Sivanah. She is the patron of illusionists, tricksters, and those who work to preserve secrets and mystery.  Her priests can be any Neutral, and she offers the domains of Knowledge, Madness, Magic, Rune, and Trickery.  You could take the Divine sub-domain of Magic...
_
Divine Vessel (Su)_: Whenever you are the target of a divine spell, you can, as a swift action, grant each ally within 15 feet of you a divine boon. This boon grants a +2 bonus on the next attack roll,  skill check, or ability check made before the end of their next turn.  You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Plus her favored weapon is the bladed scarf!  How cool is that?  It's a Varisian weapon... technically only available in the Adventurer's Armory... 1d6, plus you can disarm and trip with it, and do 1d4 damage to anyone who grapples you.

So, concept: vagabond child, hears mumblings about the Whispering Way.  Learns that the process of becoming a lich is a secret which must be kept above all else.


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Oh, I'm confusing disarm traps with open locks dc.  Unless its a spell the character could disarm any mundane trap with a take 10.



... except you can't take 10 on looking for traps because being in an area with traps puts you in immediate danger.


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

You know what?  We've been chasing [MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION] around with so many ideas and concepts, I wonder if we've all lost sight of what he wants?

So, hey, fella... how's about you sum up everything you'd like your character to do, stop sweating the small stuff, and let the dice fall where they may?


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> ... except you can't take 10 on looking for traps because being in an area with traps puts you in immediate danger.




You can take 10, but you can't take 20.  As far as detecting traps, anyone can do that.  Although if not a rogue with the trapspotter ability they have to be actively looking for traps.  Anyhow, working on character in rogue gallery now.

Done.


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 9, 2011)

*For HM*

Character ready for scrutiny in RG.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

rangerjohn's divine thief

- under lvl could you list 1/0 just for record keeping thanks
- Icicle should list dmg as 1d6(cold) in case a creature has resistance
- Souls domain changes your 3rd, 6th, and 9th lvl domain spells - pg. 96 APG
- ACP is -6 you should just list it once and when you drop the shield remember to add +2 to rolls
- Also why a rank in Perception you can use it untrained at +5 (is +6 now). I think a rank in know(religion) might be more useful as you will be the only player with that know skill possibly. And add a rank in perception at lvl2
- I have added an attachment of your equipment list (I hope) and I find it easiest to first put things I am going to use code for on Notepad and then copy/paste them in. Now when you do this they look a mess after pasting but you don't need to make them neat it does this automatically. Please try it - delete your Equipment section on your sheet and copy/paste in what I sent and see how that looks. 
- and yet again no spice item? hmm... Maybe I should just hand them out? Not sure what to do here.

Since you were "on the payroll" looks like the good doctor used Zeldana too for her shady skills. So maybe a little in your background of that and perhaps he gave you a gift of some sort.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

My feller is going to have Knowledge: Arcana, Religion, Dungeoneering, and Planes all at +5 to start.


----------



## Orius (Mar 9, 2011)

I'm going to take a look at some of that stuff.  I remember there were a few things I was still undecided on.  I think I was going to go with a wand for the Arcane Bond.  I'm undecided on Combat Casting or Greater Spell Focus for my other feat.

Downloading the player's guide thing too.  Skipped it the other day because it required a registration process, and I didn't feel like going through it at the time.  I'll have to take a look at it later.

Hmm not sure on deity.  Definity not Iomedae.  One glance at her description and she looks like one of those snotty stick-up-the-ass LG deities I tend to dislike.  So no.

I looked at the lists for LN, LE, N, and NE and Magic domain.  52 LE gods?  Ugh.  I'm going to skip the devil lords, my character's not crazy enough to follow them. Not Sivanah, since Illusion is one of my opposition schools.  Hmm, Nethys, magic above all else and driven mad with knowledge?  That seems most compatible with my character concept.  Only cares about magical knowledge, maybe the mad scientist sort. Nethys looks like a good choice.


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 9, 2011)

@HolyMan: When purchasing equipment, would you allow any/some/no gear from the Adventure's Armory?

Also, my character is ready for scrutiny.  All that's left is background and fluff, plus I know what I'd like for my spice item but it's 'expensive'... 

RG link: http://www.enworld.org/forum/5488214-post6.html


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

AA stuff not to be used in starting gear. Let me know what you want and why and I may have it available in the adventure for you.

Looking over your character now.

HM


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

Herobizkit's evil inquisitor

- Experience point spot not needed (I thought I got rid of that in the template?)
- need to list weapon and armor prof. given to you from class as there are a few exotic weapons in there
- hmm you want to spend 100gp on rope - that I can allow as it's from the underdark and so is your character
- if monk's outfit is your only set of clothes it is free and has no weight, it only costs if it is an extra set (first set (under 10gp) is free, any set your wearing weighs zero)
- breastplate should weigh 40lbs (due to spikes)
- shield should weigh 20lbs (due to spikes)
- ACP is -6
- Under class features spells not list
- Spells known not chosen
- traits not listed (I'm assuming one is Rich Parents - or did you steal all that stuff from someone?  Just say the devil made me do it.)

HM


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Mar 10, 2011)

Josef is ready to be looked over


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 10, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> GM's axe-for-hire
> 
> - Experience spot not needed
> - Why didn't you just keep the stats in order you would have gotten a free +2/+2 feat(athletics, persuasive) one more skill rank(intimidate?) and could have raised the CHA after the first module?? Time to change things if you wish. Nothing in stone till we start.
> ...




Look's like you missed this GM sorry I should have used the mention function.

HM


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Mar 10, 2011)

NP HM I just missed it, I will keep them in order and take athletic as my spice feat, and will take a beaten up Holy Symbol of Gozreh (or whatever the war God is, I'll fix this soon) as my spice item, maybe Josef's father was a preist.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 10, 2011)

It would be Gorum (CN, god of battle, weapons, and strength)

[sblock=Holy Symbol]





[/sblock]

Looks like a good fit I will work on it.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Mar 10, 2011)

@HolyMan: All of your requested changes have been made.  The only thing I noted (not that it matters) is that ACP for breastplate is -4, but FULL plate is -6.  Please check again; I think it's all there. 

I noticed that there was a pocket watch listed in the personal items section (valued at 250 gp) - I was going to add one that was lost to my character's back story... but should I be looking for established magic items, or let you dream up stuff?


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 10, 2011)

pocket watch is great for a spice item please give it some details or a pic...






The ACP for Breastplate is -4 but you add the -2 for the shield.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 10, 2011)

Who would have thought looking for the 'perfect' pic for a watch would take so much 'time'?  What did you use as your search criteria, HolyMan?


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 10, 2011)

Don't remember I think I wanted to find a drawing so I googled "pocket watch artwork"

Got lucky I guess.

HM


----------



## renau1g (Mar 10, 2011)

Got a start to my PC:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues...ion-crown-ap-savage-stampede.html#post5490516

Raised by halfling's is why he's so charming and loveable...


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Mar 10, 2011)

fixed Joseph


----------



## rangerjohn (Mar 10, 2011)

renau1g, you need to straighten out treasure and encumbrance.  Still have the values from Zeldana.


----------



## renau1g (Mar 10, 2011)

yeah I haven't bought my gear yet, just got my other stuff so far. I struggle without my character builder... so spoiled with 4e...


----------



## jackslate45 (Mar 11, 2011)

PCGen.  Its free, and its useful.  Use it, love it.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 11, 2011)

I downloaded it and I already can't do what I want with it.  

Inquisitor is missing from class list.

I tried dnloading the APG updates and installing them - my program says it can't overwrite the OGL.txt and installation fails.


----------



## HolyMan (Mar 11, 2011)

@Mowgli says that HeroLab is the best he can even make up classes for use with gestalt and I bet it helps with all those alternate classes like Arcane Duelist, Detective, and Roughrider.

HM


----------



## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 11, 2011)

_HeroLab_ is the bomb as far as I'm concerned!

Downsides:
1) It's not free - in fact, if you start buying all of the supplements it can be quite pricey. However, it's a one time fee for a license usable on two machines. And you can pick and choose which add-ons you pick up, so you can add to it as you need it. No monthly subscriptions, no hidden fees.

2) There's actually a little learning curve for building custom stuff (and those Gestalt classes can be real boogers).

Upsides:
1) You *CAN* make custom classes (and feats, spells, skills, equipment, traits, and any other dang thing you want to make).
2) Tech Support (by way of the Lone Wolf forums) is top-notch.
3) Tons of conditional modifiers are built in - check the box and presto! All of the numbers that are affected by the condition are changed for you. Using your Power Attack or Combat Expertise? Under the effects of a Bless, Curse, Inspire Courage, etc? Turn it on and you won't forget to add those precious bonuses in. (Just don't forget to turn them off when they expire, right HM? ) Prone, under Cover, Staggered, Stunned? Those are in there too.
4) There's a lot of user generated content for stuff that LoneWolf hasn't done themselves. For example, in addition to various custom house rules, there are projects for putting all of the NPCs and monsters from the Adventure Paths in.

There are other upsides as well that make this program totally worth the money for me, but I don't want to hijack the thread. There is a free version - it's Core Rules only, and you can't save your characters (I think) - if you want to try before you buy.


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## HolyMan (Mar 11, 2011)

Thank you for that fly by endorsement. 

I use pen and paper because I'm an old foggie. 

HM


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## renau1g (Mar 11, 2011)

Yeah I've been a bit tighter on my gaming budget with the wife being off on mat leave right now so maybe when we're both back to working I can consider it.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm an old fogie and prefer that computers do all the clunky math.  Character THEORY I love, character CREATION is the bane of my existence, especially for 3.5/PF with so much... um... wordiness... to describe even a 1st-level character, and THEN to transfer it all into un-formatted type on these boards... That's why I use Myth-Weavers; it takes some of the sting away.

Edit: I haven't tracked encumbrance since the late 80's, then I came to the boards and everyone wants it noted.


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## GandalfMithrandir (Mar 11, 2011)

I write out the stats by hand first, then type them up, and I'm not an old fogey by anyone's definition (except maybe a 5 year old or something Pre school ish) it's just easier for me to track everything that way.


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## HolyMan (Mar 15, 2011)

In related news this was in my email.



> A package containing 1 item from Paizo Order #1631403 is about to  ship from the Paizo warehouse via Standard Postal Delivery, estimated 4  to 8 business days in transit.
> 
> The following products are included in this shipment:
> 1 x Pathfinder Adventure Path #43: Haunting of Harrowstone (Carrion Crown 1 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition
> ...




We are about to be good to go. 

HM


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## GandalfMithrandir (Mar 17, 2011)

my Dad got his in the mail and my FLGS should get it next week, so then I will have it, if you want me to PM you the start (assuming you don't already have it when I do) I can probably do that.

EDIT: not now but next week sometime


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## Walking Dad (Mar 17, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> In related news this was in my email.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about the PDF? Did you got a quick look at the adventure already?


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## HolyMan (Mar 18, 2011)

Think the PDF is available the 23rd. But that is all irrelevant as the module is here beside me right now. 

Just need characters finished and we will be a go. I would say start up maybe Tue/Wed as those days are my best days to start something like this.

HM


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## GandalfMithrandir (Mar 18, 2011)

are you a subscriber? because if so then it should be in your downloads as soon as you get the shipping notice.


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## HolyMan (Mar 18, 2011)

No I'm not wish I could be but no money for all subscriptions that I may never use - although the newest AP Jade Empire?? (something like that) sounds interesting.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 18, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Just need characters finished and we will be a go. I would say start up maybe Tue/Wed as those days are my best days to start something like this.



Ooh, aah.  How about a list of all those extra feats etc. from the module?


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## HolyMan (Mar 18, 2011)

??!!  What are we talking about? Which feats are those?

HM


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## rangerjohn (Mar 18, 2011)

There were feats, achievements, etc; in previous adventure paths.  That does not mean they will be in all of them however.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 18, 2011)

Ohhhhh.  I was under the impression that the AP was going to add new feats, talents, etc. specific to the AP.  I've already seen the 'new' talents, and assumed there would be other AP-specific treats.


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## HolyMan (Mar 18, 2011)

Nothing in the AP, prbably no room with all the monsters in this game.

HM


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## Orius (Mar 18, 2011)

Updated the character.

I tweaked the background to make it more specific and to take into account some information from the PG.  I decided the character would be a native of Ustalav since the PG gives some information on it.  Changed the name as well; Ustalav seems to have a vaguely Eastern European flavor going on so I tweaked the name slightly to look better.



> Daros Randarov is the son of two wizards of the lower aristocracy of Caliphas. He inherited his parents' gift for magic, but never fully embraced the Ustalav virtues that meant a great deal to them.  During his studies as a youth, he became more and more curious about the dark arts of necromancy and the role it played in the dark history of his nation.  He came to believe that the undead threat might one day rise again and that only by learning about the nature of undeath and the undead would he be able to make a stand should the unliving come again.  Upon discovering that their son was studying the arts of necromancy which they abhorred, his parents disinherited him. So firmly did he belief in the rightness of his studies that he did not feel any real shame over being cast out from his family, and he turned to various mentors to learn all he could about the undead. Petros Lorrimor was one such mentor.  However, one lesson that Daros never learned was the he who fights monsters should take care not to become one in return, and his zeal for knowledge might yet tempt him into great darkness.


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## HolyMan (Mar 19, 2011)

Great background Orius it fits in very well with what I have read of the adventure so far.

Prof Lorrimor is indeed a "know thy enemy, study his ways and turn them against them if you can" type of guy. I was going to let everyone know a few facts here and now to help them with their backgrounds.

Facts to help:
- When you reach Ravengro Lorrimor will have been dead for a short seventeen days (so your character should be somewhere nearby or in the country) - Prof just moved to Ravengro 5-6 months before adventure starts.
- Starting about ten years ago (from year adventure starts dates unimportant for now) Lorrimor was interested in a cult know as The Whispering Way and sought to learn as much as he could about them over the years (Your PCs could have been part of this)
- Your association with the Professor could be on going and you may just have been on some new mission or holiday.
- The Professor taught at the Lepidstadt University before retiring to Ravengro.
- Adventure starts at the cemetery the day the Professor is to be buried. PCs just arriving in time to help with the service.

That's what I have for now more info as I get it.

HM


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## Walking Dad (Mar 19, 2011)

Updated my (short) background with the adventure hook for my character.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 20, 2011)

Here's a look at my not-so-short background.  PEACH it!


> Professor Lorrimer... a name that Daggal Harjyr would not soon forget.
> 
> Born in the depths of the Five Kings Mountain region, Daggal was a common foot soldier in a society full of common foot soldiers.  He found a retreat from his pointless existence when a group of surface-dwellers requested a pack of hobgoblins for mining work.  He volunteered to be part of the Duergar hunting party.  The hobgoblins proved to be formidable opponents, and Daggal was defeated.
> 
> ...


----------



## Orius (Mar 20, 2011)

I think I'll have it that my character studied under the Professor at Lepidstadt University several years earlier (maybe 2-5) and he assisted him in some of his research about the Whspering Way.


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## HolyMan (Mar 21, 2011)

Sounds like we will have a great game. Nice backgrounds from everyone.

Just need @renau1g to pick some gear besides a morningstar and dagger and I think things will be ready enough to start. 

And also there are two Golarion languages that may come in handy...

Skald and Varisian 

It would be good if at least someone had one of these. Although I'm not overly sure as I only have the first module but better safe than sorry.

IC this week 

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 21, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Updated my (short) background with the adventure hook for my character.




Please update gear when you have a moment.

Hm


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## Herobizkit (Mar 21, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> It would be good if at least someone had one of these languages - Skald or Varisian. Although I'm not overly sure as I only have the first module but better safe than sorry.



Actually, it'd be awesome if none of us did... though I did take Comprehend Languages as one of my first-level spells.

Awkward communication is best in print, and horrible to role-play in person.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 21, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Please update gear when you have a moment.
> 
> Hm



Done


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## rangerjohn (Mar 21, 2011)

Will switch out celestial for varasian.  She did grow up in Riddleport.


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## HolyMan (Mar 22, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> Actually, it'd be awesome if none of us did... though I did take Comprehend Languages as one of my first-level spells.
> 
> Awkward communication is best in print, and horrible to role-play in person.




Agreed but keep the comp lang it also will find uses as you can't have every language in the world known. 

HM


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## Herobizkit (Mar 22, 2011)

Oh, I fully intend to keep comp lang - I chose it BECAUSE we're in a module. ;D


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## HolyMan (Mar 22, 2011)

If you all are ready than there is an IC up and awaiting a little RPing...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/303289-carrion-crown-ap-savage-stampede-ic.html

See you all there.

HM


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## Orius (Mar 22, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Skald and Varisian
> 
> It would be good if at least someone had one of these. Although I'm not overly sure as I only have the first module but better safe than sorry.




I'll switch Aklo for Varisian.  I selected my character's languages to be the the various languages of magic: Elven, Gnome, Draconian, and Infernal (you know for all those deals with devils), picking Aklo to kind of round things out.  Since he is from Ustalav, and the people are ethnically Varisian, it would make some sense if he had knowledge of it.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 23, 2011)

Of course, [MENTION=59043]Walking Dad[/MENTION]'s druid had to be the first to address my Duergar... :X


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## Herobizkit (Apr 1, 2011)

rangerjohn said:
			
		

> If  Daggal were an npc Zeldana would have either left by now.  Or we would  have come to blows, either way the situation would be over.  Possibly  with Zeldana's death, but over.



Just for discussion's sake, but how is a cremation any different from a burial if it's the soul that matters to a priestess of Pharasma?


> Fair enough.  Just at this point, I don't know why we would stick together.



At this point, none of the characters has ANY reason to 'stick together'.  Have you ever been to a funeral, or any kind of "family" gathering?  No one automatically gets along with each other just because they all know the same person.  In this specific scene, it's an emotionally charged event... in Daggal's case, the emotion happens to be rage and contempt.



> Everybody else at this point at least respects the professor, if not  cared for him.  At this point your just alienating the rest of the group  and the closest thing to an employer in the story.  I mean really, why  would she not simply shove your watch in your face and bid you on your  way?  I mean you've basically told her that her father was not worthy to  breathe air.



That is a good question, and here I'm relying on  @HolyMan 's DMing ability to make it an interesting one.  Maybe the watch is missing.  Maybe it's been promised to someone else.  Fact is, the watch does NOT belong to Daggal; it's "legally" the Professor's property.  Daggal is here out of spite and unfounded right to entitlement.  How he gets mixed up with the rest of the party, well...  

If we step out of the player mode for a second and go to 'meta-gaming' mode, we can assume that the module always has some kind of reason to tie the PC's together, and it's usually the motivation behind the first adventure.  We just haven't gotten there yet.

If HolyMan or any of the other players has issues with the way I'm portryaing the character, I'm open to discussion.  However, if the CHARACTERS have an issue with Daggal, we can work that out, too.  Right now, he's just a loudmouth ass.  In other words, a typical Duergar.


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## HolyMan (Apr 1, 2011)

Will get through it and of course your right there will be a reason for you all to work as a group, but will probably not have the same motives behind your actions.

That said I think we should double check the CHA of the character before continuing on to far. 

I need the weekend to sort out this mess as when the paladin is introduced we will need a real good reason for him not to go and kill the duergar after introductions. 

Will get all this back on track this weekend.

HM


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## rangerjohn (Apr 1, 2011)

As for the cremation, it wasn't the suggestion, but rather the way it was delivered.  Which as has been established was deliberate.  As for the rest it really is up to HM. 

    Maybe the real question, is how this group will get on at all.  It boggles the mind that the most "normal" are a northman barbarian, a priestess of the dead, and a BLUE dwarf.  From what I got from the player's guide, none of them  would be accepted by the society.  Monsters, half-elven varasian followers of Pharasma, necromancers, and barbarians.  Is there any superstitious trope we didn't trip?  All this is in the "Balkans".   Don't know what they would think of the dwarves, but they would probably think the sorcerer was a werewolf.


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## renau1g (Apr 1, 2011)

I would just bluff them to think I just have a hair growth problem.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 1, 2011)

My dwarf is actually not so strange. While his skin is rather pale with a very light blueish tint, the pics more extreme color is a side-effect of his active Endure Elements spell


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## Herobizkit (Apr 1, 2011)

Paladin?!  When did we allow a Paladin in the mix?


			
				rangerjohn said:
			
		

> Maybe the real question, is how this group will get on at all.  It  boggles the mind that the most "normal" are a northman barbarian, a  priestess of the dead, and a BLUE dwarf.  From what I got from the  player's guide, none of them  would be accepted by the society.



From the character creation process, we determined that this group would deliberately be "out of the norm", working towards the end goal of the campaign for reasons other than "we're heroes" and "it's the right thing to do".   I find it odd that there are ANY 'normal' characters; the fact that there's a Paladin on the way is VERY disturbing for many reasons.

As for checking my Charisma, I rolled an 18, -4 for 14... so I'm the most swell Duergar there can be out-of-the-box.


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## Cyansylph (Apr 2, 2011)

Whew, I was curious as to how our (deadwatchers)Carrion group was progressing in comparison to the others and wandered over here. After reading a few posts, just felt I should say good luck; you all look like you need a bit of extra encouragement. 

You guys should end up with a very different game from our do-gooders. Can't wait to read through it a year from now! Hope you all can pull it off! =D


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## rangerjohn (Apr 2, 2011)

renau1g said:


> I would just bluff them to think I just have a hair growth problem.




Oh, so your cursed.   You forget how superstitious these people are.


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## renau1g (Apr 2, 2011)

I'll then use my silver tongue to generate some sympathy instead of anger, poor ol' big man with too much hair...


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## Herobizkit (Apr 2, 2011)

Bark at the moon, aroooo...

Humans are always so uptight - that's why I seldom play one.


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## Orius (Apr 2, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> A
> Maybe the real question, is how this group will get on at all.  It boggles the mind that the most "normal" are a northman barbarian, a priestess of the dead, and a BLUE dwarf.  From what I got from the player's guide, none of them  would be accepted by the society.  Monsters, half-elven varasian followers of Pharasma, necromancers, and barbarians.  Is there any superstitious trope we didn't trip?  All this is in the "Balkans".




Remember my character is a native of Ustalav, and he's a wizard with 18 Int.  He's NOT stupid enough to go parading around the countryside with skulls on his robes and an entourage of undead!  He's well aware of the superstitions of the peasantry, and he views their fears with contempt.  If anything, they're more likely to see him as a snotty, spoiled noble than the wicked evil necromancer.  He also doesn't go around announcing that he's specializing in necromancy, and with a priestess of Pharasma in the party, he's going to be even more vague than usual.  He has Knowledge (religion) a sa skill after all, so he's definitely going to be cautious around her.

I'm pretty much playing myself as a Byronic hero here so he's going to be pretty arrogant and sarcastic, and he's going to be very tempted by forbidden knowledge.  I'm going to play him as a wizard version of the mad scientist.  I figure this angle should go very well with the whole classic gothic feel the AP is apparently going for.  He's also very much in love with Kendra, and I figure she could be a positive influence on him, keeping him from slipping to far into the dark side.  OTOH, if she dies or something similarly tragic happens to her, he's going to go totally off the deep end.  [MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION], don't spoil anything here, I'm just giving some character hooks here for you to work with.

Paladin?  Oh boy.  My character is definitely going to have to behave.  But being a bad boy would be much more amusing.  And I was looking forward to abusi- errr taking _animate dead_ at seventh level.


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## HolyMan (Apr 2, 2011)

I wish to add the paladin just for those very reasons (and because he will help vs undead). The RP will benefit and it may keep everyone... well not good, just behaved in public.

The characters are going to have friction and that is what I want I just hope the players remember it is all for the greater good of RPing.

HM


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## renau1g (Apr 2, 2011)

As long as the paladin doesn't attempt to do what my first PC in any D&D game did way back in 2e. 

"Does he smell evil?"* I asked 
(If DM says yes)
"Ok, I righteously smite him for being evil and carrying a weapon. He's certainly going to kill someone with it."

[sblock=*If you don't know that reference]
Todd: Wow! A Clown....do you think he's evil? 
Rod: He smells evil 
Todd: Should we tell daddy? 
Rod: No, lets poke him a little while longer 
Bart: Hey, get away from him you little freaks 
Todd/Rod: Eeeeeeeeeeeee!  
http://download.lardlad.com/sounds/season9/krusty4.mp3[/sblock]


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## Herobizkit (Apr 2, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> I wish to add the paladin just for those very reasons (and because he will help vs undead). The RP will benefit and it may keep everyone... well not good, just behaved in public.



So is this new paladin an actual player character or an NPC?  We already have six players, two more than the module likely assumes.  I chose an evil alignment with the knowledge that there wouldn't be a bossy paladin in the party.

And with three "normal" characters and three "fringe" types, there's going to be lots of party tension.

I really don't want to see the Paladin as the DM's 'prodding stick' to correct bad behavior. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kNpvCVQPm0]YouTube - Paladin Runs Thin on Threats to Rend Justice.wmv[/ame]


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## HolyMan (Apr 2, 2011)

It's a PC and will put us one over the 4-6 players. But after readying the module and looking at group composition it would help to have another sword.

TSS hasn't excepted yet to play though. He was going to be fill in if renau1g fell out and now he is waiting to see.

I don't know how he will play the paladin just yet but I do know that it doesn't need to be the Knight in Shining armor stopping every doer of evil. A holy warrior could focus on a quest and let some evil slip through the cracks to purge the world of a greater threat. (they just need to not like it that it does).

I woun't need the paladin to keep your evil duergar in line. You are LE and should obey most laws, no killing, stealing, or other destructive behavior. As LE you should be self serving sand egotist but you should also see the logic in using a group to help accomplish some tough goals. 

Now you have your character as some sort of loud mouth who wants what he thinks is his. Although it truly never was. Which is all good RP for your character but the how you go about it should be defined by your LE alignment. Which I see as a more manipulative and I'll stand back and let them do all the work and get just as much reward.

You'll all have to trust me that adding the paladin will work. I will see how TSS wishes to play him. But in this type of AP with it's gothic horror them I see him more as a gritty, Van Helsing or Dark Knight like.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Apr 2, 2011)

As a random aside, I  envision Inquisitors as the Van Helsing type.

I'm glad you're not a stickler for 'the rules'. 


			
				Paladin Associates said:
			
		

> While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids  working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her  moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with  evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater  evil. A paladin should seek an _atonement_  spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the  alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good.


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## HolyMan (Apr 2, 2011)

That is actually what I was referring to... I read that about paladin's and thought the adventure will throw them together and as such I will make getting atonement a little easier. And there is a greater evil (if saying a lich is more evil that Daggal, that is).

And is he Van Helsing in appearance or attitude, I was thinking the latter for the paladin.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Apr 2, 2011)

So long as the player is aware that he will be traveling with an evil Inquisitor of Asmodeus, and the character is not like the "snort, evil, kill" type of paladin, I foresee no immediate issues. 

Also, I don't want to get too hung up over the "evil" thing... that's why I picked Lawful Evil.  It's just how Daggal sees the world and how he can manipulate it to best suit his own needs, while making a point to scoff at (what he and Asmodeus perceives as) weakness and slay monsters.

I AM a monster hunter, after all.  It's part and parcel of the Inquisitor shtick.


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## Caim (Apr 2, 2011)

So much hate for the paladin. Hey guys. You have zero to worry about from my paladin. I like playing the Grey Guard type paladin, if anyone knows of the PrC from 3.5. The way I view lawful good and evil is that you use the laws of the land differently. At the end of the day you need the law more than it needs you. If you roll into a town and start killing babies and woman, I'll stop you. On the other hand if, by some crazy law, you were granted this, I wouldn't like it, but by law its your right. By no means did I make him to keep your character or any others in line. He is a paladin not a paladick, paladumb or lawful stupid. Just so you know...I had a paladin cut someones tongue out so he couldn't spread his 'hate' and cut anothers hands off, so that he could never use a sword again. If that puts it into prospective.

I wouldn't be opposed to letting everyong vote me in. To give everyone a chance to say 'yes' or 'no' on my joining the party. My priorities are to help everyone out through the adventure and to have fun. Whats the point of playing if your not having fun and making others miserable. So if the group says 'no' I will take my leave no harm done.


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## HolyMan (Apr 3, 2011)

Well that is cool if I get to vote there would be seven of us, so four yes i=and we get a smiter of evil. 

I vote *YES* and will state the follow as to why.

- the group compostion could use another well armed and armored melee type. 
Group:
Inquisitor - support role (specially when teamwork feats are gained)
Fighter - melee combatant
Sorcerer - (haven't checked the spells but thinking magical artillery?)
Necromancer - control - not to useful vs undead so this adventure will be a little weak but the others are not so undead related
Cleric - heal/buff (latter lvls of rogue add in a support role)
Druid - not sure about arctic druid or WD's plans but good backup healer if cleric goes down and extra magical ranged attacks.

So I think one more toe to toe player to get in the mix with the fighter will be good for party survival

- We will not be using the XP system so there is no worry about dividing XP by so many characters.

- Allows for no need to look for others players if a drop out happens Kind of a buffer zone for now so to speak.

- The adventure will allow for the mix and it will bring in some good RP. I think it will be great as you are all thrown together to do a task and you will have your own views how it should be done, and then RP it out.


HM


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## Walking Dad (Apr 3, 2011)

My character is neutral, not evil, so the pladin will help me not to end up as the 'good' guy.

YES.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 3, 2011)

I also designed my character as a 'tank', using my extra money to get my AC up pretty high.  I have a breastplate and a large shield; pretty snazzy for first level.

As for the paladin, I have no reason to actually veto a player's character choice, so I vote YES. 

And may Asmodeus consume your soul.


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## renau1g (Apr 3, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Sorcerer - (haven't checked the spells but thinking magical artillery?)
> HM




Well, at level 1 I'm not much of anything  

But, yeah was thinking more blast-y and less controll-y. Grabbed Mage armor for protection and Grease because I love that spell. It makes me laugh when I think of a group of zombies stuck in the slippery spell... or city guards, or anyone else who are susceptible to it.


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## GandalfMithrandir (Apr 3, 2011)

My character could use the help, so I vote YES


----------



## rangerjohn (Apr 3, 2011)

I try not to tell others how to play, hence my saying I may leave, rather than asking Hero to change.   On the other hand I am drawn more to good characters.  Third it is Holyman's game, so all these reasons tell to vote YES.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 4, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> ...
> Druid - not sure about arctic druid or WD's plans but good backup healer if cleric goes down and extra magical ranged attacks.
> ...
> 
> HM



Well, next feat will be augment summoning, which shall give a hint for his preferred spells once he levels a bit. Will need some magic item for healing (wand?) as he isn't going to prepare many cure spells, but more cold and earth themed attack spells plus some basic defense.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 4, 2011)

Summoned monsters, the DM's worst enemy. 

As long as we can 'fix', you never need to memorize a cure spell.

Props to the players who get the reference.


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## HolyMan (Apr 5, 2011)

Updated and need to check a character so here's the* red ink *for Aerodus...

[sblock=Aerodus Tauranor]
[sblock=Game Info]
Race: Human
Class: Paladin
Level: 1
Alignment: Lawful Good
Languages: Common 
Deity: *Iomedae*[/sblock]
[sblock=Abilities]
STR: 18 (+2 spice)
DEX: 11
CON: 16 
INT: 11 (+2 spice) 
WIS: 15 (+2 racial) 
CHA: 17 

*Here I think you followed the spice rule wrong. The rule is if you keep the stats in the order you rolled them than you get a free +2/+2 FEAT (i.e. Acrobatic, Alertness, Stealthy, Persausive, etc.)*[/sblock]
[sblock=Combat]
HP: 17 = [1d10 + 3] + 1 (Paladin) +3 (feat)
AC: 16 = 10 + 6 (armor) + 0 (shield) + 0 (DEX), 
AC Touch: 10 = 10 + 0 (DEX)
AC Flatfooted: 16 = 10 + 6 (armor) + 0 (shield)
INIT: +0 = +0 (DEX)
BAB: +1 = +1 (Paladin)
CMB: +5 = +4 (STR) + 1 (BAB)
CMD: 15 = 10 + 4 (STR) + 0 (DEX) + 1 (BAB)
Fort: +5 = +2 (base) + 3 (stat)
Reflex: +0 = +0 (base) + 0 (stat)
Will: +5 = +2 (base) + 3 (stat) * +2 for stat
* Speed: 30'* should be 20' do to armor*
Damage Reduction: 00
Spell Resistance: 00[/sblock]
[sblock=Weapon Stats]
Guisarme(melee): +5 = +1 (BAB) + 4 (Str) + 0 (feat)/ DMG = 2d4+4(S), CRIT x3
Guisarme PA(melee): +4 = +1 (BAB) + 4 (Str) - 1 (feat)/ DMG = 2d4+7(S), CRIT x3

*May change if stat changes*[/sblock]
[sblock=Racial Traits]
*Stat: +2 to any one ability (WIS)
Size: Medium
Speed: 30'
Favored Class: Paladin*
Bonus Feat: Gain one extra feat at 1st level.
Skilled: Gain an additional skill point at 1st level and every additional level. [/sblock]
[sblock=Class Features]
*Aura of Good:* Aura equal to paladin level.

*Detect Evil: *At will, the paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A  paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or  individual within 60' and determine if it is evil, learning the strength  of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on on  an object or individual, the paladin does not detect evil in any other  object or individual within range.
*
Smite Evil:* Once per day, as a swift action, the paladin chooses one  target within sight to smite. If the target is evil, the paladin adds  their Charisma bonus (if any) to their attack rolls and adds their  paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of the smite.  If the target of the smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an  evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage  increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses.  Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automaticall bypass any DR  the creature might possess.

In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gais a  deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to their AC  against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a  creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or  the next time the paladin rests and regains their uses of this ability.  At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may  smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table 3-11, to a  maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. [/sblock]
[sblock=Feats & Traits]
*Spice Feat missing if you keep stats in same order.*
Power Attack (Bonus): Exchange to hit bonus for damage bonus.
Toughness (1st): Gain 3 additional hit points and 1 additional hit point at every level beyond the 3rd.
Eyes and Ears of the City: +1 on Perception checks and Perception is a class skill.
Subject of Study: Undead, gain a +1 weapon damage bonus against undead. [/sblock]
[sblock=Skills]
Skill Ranks: 2* (should be three bit may be two if your INT stays at 9)*
Max Ranks: 1 ACP: -5
Skills:
Acrobatics + 0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [DEX] +0 [misc] -0 [ACP]
Appraise +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Bluff +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [CHA] +0 [misc]
Climb +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [STR] +0 [misc] +0 [ACP]
Craft +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Diplomacy +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [CHA] +0 [misc]
Disable Device +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [DEX] +0 [misc] +0 [ACP]
Disguise +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [CHA] +0 [misc]
Escape Artist +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [DEX] +0 [misc] +0 [ACP]
Fly +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [DEX] +0 [misc] + [ACP]
Handle Animal +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [CHA] +0 [misc] 
Heal +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [WIS] +0 [misc]
Intimidate +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [CHA] +0 [misc] 
Knowledge (Arcana) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Dngnrng) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Engnrng) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Geography) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (History) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Local) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Nature) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Nobility) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Planes) +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Knowledge (Religion) +4 = +1 [ranks] +3 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Linguistics +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Perception +7 = +1 [ranks] +3 [class skill] +2 [WIS] +1 [misc]
Perform +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [CHA] +0 [misc]
Profession +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [WIS] +0 [misc]
Ride +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [DEX] +0 [misc] +0 [ACP]
Sense Motive +6 = +1 [ranks] +3 [class skill] +2 [WIS] +0 [misc]
Sleight of Hand +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [DEX] +0 [misc] +0 [ACP]
Spellcraft +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [INT] +0 [misc]
Stealth +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [DEX] +0 [misc] +0 [ACP]
Survival +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [WIS] +0 [misc]
Swim +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [STR] +0 [misc] +0 [ACP]
Use Magic Device +0 = +0 [ranks] +0 [class skill] +0 [CHA] +0 [misc] [/sblock]
[sblock=Equipment]

```
Equipment                      Cost     Weight
Traveler's outfit              ---        ---
Chainmail                     150gp      40 lbs.
Guisarme                        9gp      12 lbs.
Backpack                        2gp       2 lbs.
   Bedroll                      1sp       5 lbs.
   Flint and Steel              1gp       ---
   Torch x3                     3cp       3 lbs.
   Whetstone                    2cp       1 lbs.
   Waterskin                    1gp       4 lbs.
```
Treasure: 11gp, 8sp, 5cp Gems: 000
Total weight carried: 69 lbs.* have 67 lbs. as weight*
Maximum weight possible: Light (100), Medium (101-200) Heavy (201-300)
*Maximum weight may change due to stat change* [/sblock]
[sblock=Details]
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Age: 22
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 187
Hair Color: Black
Eye Color: Green
Skin Color: Pale
Apperance: 
Deamenaor:[/sblock] 
[sblock=Background]... [/sblock]
[sblock=Adventure Log] None yet[/sblock]
[sblock=Level Ups] N/A only first level [/sblock] [/sblock]

Ok under equipment you don't have a holy symbol listed (which is fine). Also you don't have a spice item whatever you decide to take on as a spice please let me know before we get into the adventure to deep.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 5, 2011)

Also missing spice items from... 

WD - am redoing your equipment list for you please hold...
renau1g (no equipment at all), 
Orius (although you have a wand as an arcane bond item - do you wish for that to also be the spice item?)
rangerjohn... you list in your background you received an item just not what it was it truly can be anything (talisman, jewelery, scrollcase, etc. just need to know what, as what it does may differ as noted below).

How a spice item will work. 

A spice item is something that will give you "magical" benefits while it may not itself be magical (although it could all depends). Example (and I hate ruining the surprise but... oh well)

Daggal's pocket watch. I have plans that once Daggal reaches 3rd lvl the watch will gain the benefits of a cloak of resistance +1 (yes it takes up the neck slot away) although the watch isn't magical it is lucky granting him the +1 to all saves. Later it may either become even luckier or gain additional abilities. These abilities will only work for Daggal btw.

Your spice item may be armor or a weapon it can be anything, I just need to know what it is and if it is something you "bought" you get that money back to spend on other things.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 5, 2011)

Here you go WD just delete the equipment area of your character sheet and quote/copy/paste in this...

[sblock=Equipment]

```
[U]Item                      Cost   Weight[/U]
Hide armor                15gp    25lb    
heavy wooden shield        7gp    10lb
club                       ---     3lb
warhammer                 12gp     5lb
scimitar                  15gp     4lb
cold weather outfit        ---     0lb
Backpack                   2gp     2lb
Bedroll                  0.1gp     5lb
blanket, winter          0.5gp     3lb
Holly & Mistletoe          ---     0lb
Waterskin                  1gp     4lb
```
Treasure: 17gp, 4sp, 0cp
Gems: none

*Carrying Capacity: *
Total weight carried: 61 lbs (medium) 
light: 00 - 50 lbs
medium: 51 - 100 lbs
heavy: 101 - 150 lbs[/sblock]

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 5, 2011)

[MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION] looks like to me that would be more a bluff or would best be served as an aid another to anyone who wants to try diplomacy.

So roll an aid another diplomacy for that post and anyone who wants to can make the check (except - Todrag he has incited the locals enough )

HM


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## rangerjohn (Apr 5, 2011)

Added to my IC post.  That will probably be the last diplomacy check I ever try.  Get a 19 and the best that can be done with it is aid another?  With my luck with dice rollers I won't even bother.


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## renau1g (Apr 5, 2011)

Yeah... not so smart bugbear... not smart indeed.

So, with equipment. I can't think of anything to buy. Sorcerers can't wear armor, can't really use weapons, although I guess I could buy one to have one. Oh, and is there some sorta standard kit with waterskin, backpack, torches, etc? In 4e there's the Standard Adventurer's Kit. So much better then going through and adding a few silver here and a few copper there for stuff.


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## Caim (Apr 5, 2011)

Yea, my luck with dice rollers is pretty bad also. It seems that when there is nothing to spot I'll roll a 27 Perception, but when there is a rogue to find...yea I'll roll an 8.

Also if anyone knows of any games goin on...let me know. I am trying to find more games to get into. Maybe even some more Pathfinder modules.


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## HolyMan (Apr 5, 2011)

Well your starting go is 70 so shouldn't be to hard to spend. 

Crossbow - 35gp
bolts(10) - 1gp
hand weapon: choose one
mace light - 5gp
mace heavy - 12gp
morningstar - 8gp
long spear - 5gp
spear - 2gp
short spear - 1gp

Backpack - 2gp
bedroll - 5sp
waterskin - 1gp
rations(2 days) - 1gp
sunrods(2) - 4gp
scroll case - 1gp
- lvl 0 scroll - 12.5gp *OR*
- lvl 1 scroll - 25gp
sack - 1sp

But don't forget your spice item that's important.

HM


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## rangerjohn (Apr 5, 2011)

Continued from IC:

Or put another way, its just as hard to talk down a drunk as it is to convince the advance scout of a blood thirsty alien race not to report back.   To the rules, hostile is hostile.  With these rules their is no place for a bouncer or bartender, if your not an ambassador par excellence employed by the U.N. don't even bother.  Oops I'm wrong the DC for the alien is 40 + cha.  But still reinforces my point, This must make it the most difficult skill in the game.  Which means when the guards are called to break up a fight, someone is most likely dead.   No beat cop is going to have a 15 skill which is what would be needed on an average roll.  Shoot even a diplomat, say a 5th level bard with skill focus diplomacy and 18 cha, still only has a 50/50 shot to succeed.


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## renau1g (Apr 6, 2011)

My PC has 18 Cha and the feat to get +2 bonus to diplomacy FWIW.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 6, 2011)

So if you have max ranks at this level, you need to roll 15+ to succeed or with my lucky aid another roll 13.  Good luck.


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## HolyMan (Apr 6, 2011)

The DC for this is set at 20 (Unfriendly + 0 CHA). But really even if it wasn't most of the DCs in the Core book seem attainable. I mean Hostile is the worst 25 + CHA modifier but then if they are hostile then they are already trying to kill you so stopping to talk would just be silly.

A half-elf bard with 18 CHA, 1 rank in Diplomacy, Skill Focus (Diplomacy) - racial bonus, Persuasive feat (spice bonus?), and Ease of Faith (trait) would have a +14 at first lvl. A good face man that would be.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

That's the point, though - if you Diplomacy roll every social encounter, someone with a high Diplomacy would never have any enemies.

And that's also the point - we're first level.  We're not supposed to be able to convert every hostile enemy to friendly.  We're supposed to be just above the average Joe in ability.

Diplomacy: Reason with people over a period of time.  The negotiatior would have high ranks in Diplomacy.

Intimidate: Make someone do what you want immediately under duress.  This is what the beat cop would use on thugs.

Finally, even a 'beat cop' wouldn't be much more than (maybe) a level 2 or 3 Warrior.  A level 5 bard is already far beyond what 'normal' people can aspire to.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 6, 2011)

He only had a 50/50 chance at 5th level and built for it.  But I guess we should be putting the casket down and drawing weapons.  Expecting decorum at a funeral, what was I thinking.  Now that we've alienated the town, and they us, we stick around why?  At this point, where is that lich?  He can't be any worse than this lot.  Guess I just became a Rosevite.  As in Theodore Rosevelt, "speak softly and carry a big stick."


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## Orius (Apr 6, 2011)

I thought the DM was supposed to assign the spice item or whatever, so I hadn't thought about it.  I suppose the wand will be good enough, though that's the item I have for the arcane bond, and I don't know if there's a conflict with it.  If not I suppose it could have been a parting gift from Petros when I left him to strike out on my own.


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## HolyMan (Apr 6, 2011)

Can be anything... ring, amulet, old pair of boots. The idea is to give it a history and attachment to your character.

Maybe a gift from Kendra would be more than something from the professor.

HM


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## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

[MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION]: You seem very impassioned about how D&D in general, and specifically this module, irritates you.  Have you never played a module before?  Do you not realize that every module is a collection of fights with some light story scattered about?


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## GandalfMithrandir (Apr 6, 2011)

I will aid another in renau1g's character for the diplomacy


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## rangerjohn (Apr 6, 2011)

Oh, I've played modules before.  Just never been so irritated by the "good guys".  The party and the people I'm supposed to help.  Logically, Zeldana should hop the next ship back to Riverport.  Or however she would get there.  Don't know how the world fits together.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

What is it about the good guys that irritates Zeldana?  What is it about the good guys that irritates you, as a player?


----------



## renau1g (Apr 6, 2011)

Yeah I knew it'd be interesting with a wide selection of PC's and a bit more monster-themed party. I'm sorry if I've been irritating definitely not an intention, although is it you as a player or your PC that is irritated?


----------



## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Now that we've alienated the town, and they us, we stick around why?



You're a bigger pessimist than I am, and that's saying something. 

We haven't alienated 'the town'.  A group of toughs approached us, separate from the Professor's crowd, and claimed they don't want the Professor buried.  We don't know anything about the toughs other than they don't want us to continue into the burial site, and they believe the Professor to be a necromancer and not worthy to be buried with the other townsfolk.

Given that the daughter said, "the town has already approved the burial", someone is lying.  I can't RP your character, so I can only guess what your priestess thinks about the situation.


----------



## rangerjohn (Apr 6, 2011)

The biggest thing that irritates me as player is I feel like floatsm on the sea.  No connection to anything, no reason to care about anything but myself.  Also as I've said no reason to stick around, other than the funeral which it doesn't look like is going to happen.  

On something only related peripherally to this adventure, it seems there is a bad or underused mechanic involving charisma.  Other than sorcerer, bard, or paladin, I can think of no use for charisma.  All the other stats have a use for all characters.  Other than those characters there is no reason not to put lowest score there.  There is no drawback.  What you get a penalty to a roll you could never make anyhow?  I have my second highest score and one of my best rolls and still fail.  The only use this character will ever see out of that score is extra channelings.  Which could be better accomplished with a feat.


As for Zeldana let's see, we have an ass, blasphemers, idiots, the list goes on.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 6, 2011)

blasphemers? idiots? I've only seen hero's PC be somewhat of an ass, but he's explained why (and my PC knows his)


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## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

@rangerjohn , as a player, I would suggest finding your own reasons to 'belong'.  The DM can only do so much given we're at the very start of a pre-written adventure.   @HolyMan  asked us for ways to tie ourselves to the game world, and gave us a few on his own (specifically the spice item).

I know you were having many issues with your character design, and you eventually settled (?) on a Priestess of Pharasma build.  You also built being an orphan into your back story, which has the unfortunate side-effect of making your past somewhat unclear.  

At the moment, the only thing tying our characters together is the Professor, and that's what we (as players) accept as story fiat - ie. if we do not accept that we are together for the Professor's sake, there is no story, or the DM has to re-invent the wheel to make a reason.

I say be patient, allow the story to unfold, and think more on your character.  While your character doesn't like her immediate company, there is a reason she and the others will have to stick together - none of us knows what that is... yet.



> As for Zeldana let's see, we have an ass, blasphemers, idiots, the list goes on.



Based on that statement, I (the player, as if I were reading a story) might assume that Zeldana has a very narrow view of the world at large.  Her life was first spent on the streets, then in a convent dedicated to death, and now here.  Zeldana seems as bigoted as the people she accuses of bigotry.

From what I've seen, through Zeldana's eyes, is thus:
A Human Paladin of Justice who trips over his own words
A polite man who fancies the Professor's daughter
A soft-spoken Northern Barbarian
A blue Dwarf who's dwarf-like.
An uncharacteristically polite Bugbear
a crass, loudmouthed ass of a Duergar (who are, by nature, crass asses)

With the exception of my Duergar, everyone has been the picture of politeness.  And yet, they're all idiots?

I don't follow.


----------



## rangerjohn (Apr 6, 2011)

That was Zeldana speaking, she know nothing of typos for one thing.  Also the ass has down trodden the dead.  True no more than anything else, but she is a follower of Pharasma.  The idiots are the ones the party is trying to deal with, the villagers.  Although some of the party's actions could fall there as well, including Zeldana's.


----------



## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

Lol OhhhHHhhhhHH....

I honestly can't tell the difference when you, the player, and you, the character, are venting their frustrations, or what they're venting them at.

Re: Charisma.  Based on what you were telling me about your character, I do recall suggesting Bard on several occasions.


----------



## rangerjohn (Apr 6, 2011)

Maybe Zeldana is not right for this game.  As for back story and reason to be there there was one.  Perhaps just not clearly stated and not likely to be met.

She is an orphan who has been accepted for herself in only two instances one relationship was the Professor, the other was the church.  She is even unbeknownst to herself, looking for a surrogate family.  Not someone out to use her for her talents.  This 'group'  doesn't seem to want anyone much less her.  

Between mechanics and stats, this is going to relegate her to healbot.  She's not built to be a frontline fighter and D&D for better or for worse, is designed for that to be the optimal solution to all problems.


----------



## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Between mechanics and stats, this is going to relegate her to healbot.  She's not built to be a frontline fighter and D&D for better or for worse, is designed for that to be the optimal solution to all problems.



D&D is designed to be a TEAM sport.  Clerics are the second-best warriors of the three base types.  Not everyone needs to be a front-line fighter to contribute.

From our past conversations about your character-building process, I did voice the opinion that a Bard might better suit your concept... Rogues and Clerics have the same attack progression.  You were encouraged to be a priest based on the DM's perceived need of one.

You are more than capable of wearing whatever armor and weapons are available to you.  You won't be able to slog out the damage that a Warrior might, but hey, you're not a Warrior. 

From a RP perspective, Zeldana is looking for a surrogate family, and our group is what she's got.

EDIT: Just re-read your character.  You have an 18 AC, armed with a weapon that does 1d8+1 damage.  You're more than capable of being a front-line fighter.


----------



## rangerjohn (Apr 6, 2011)

Based on that statement, I (the player, as if I were reading a story) might assume that Zeldana has a very narrow view of the world at large.  Her life was first spent on the streets, then in a convent dedicated to death, and now here.  Zeldana seems as bigoted as the people she accuses of bigotry.

From what I've seen, through Zeldana's eyes, is thus:
A Human Paladin of Justice who trips over his own words
A polite man who fancies the Professor's daughter
A soft-spoken Northern Barbarian
A blue Dwarf who's dwarf-like.
An uncharacteristically polite Bugbear
a crass, loudmouthed ass of a Duergar (who are, by nature, crass asses)

With the exception of my Duergar, everyone has been the picture of politeness.  And yet, they're all idiots?

I don't follow.

In that as in all things you would be at least partially correct.  The problems is who is standing out in the scene?  The ass, and  this is her only problem with the Duergar, not his alignment or relegion.  Shows how flawed she is, willing to sell out her own relegion to be accepted. Most others have either faded into the background of the moment or stood out for negative reasons.


----------



## Herobizkit (Apr 6, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> In that as in all things you would be at least partially correct.  The problems is who is standing out in the scene?  The ass, and  this is her only problem with the Duergar, not his alignment or relegion.  Shows how flawed she is, willing to sell out her own relegion to be accepted. Most others have either faded into the background of the moment or stood out for negative reasons.



I (the player) don't see Zeldana as selling out her religion.







			
				Pharasma said:
			
		

> Many of Pharasma's worshipers are those closely aligned with either  burgeoning life or terminating death. These include midwives, grave  diggers, and morticians. Her priests are typically clerics, diviners,  and necromancers that choose not to create undead. Her followers view  the undead with hatred and consider them a great abomination. They view  putting the undead to rest as a holy duty. The creation of undead is  outlawed, and commanding undead is not much liked either.



If anything, her willingness to deal with the ignorant townsfolk interfering wit a holy ritual is a strength, not a sell-out.

Heck, even the Goddess herself is pretty chill.







> Pharasma remains neutral in almost all aspects towards other deities. Iomedae still bears a slight grudge against her for not revealing Aroden's impending death. Urgathoa and her followers are the closest she has to an enemy.


----------



## HolyMan (Apr 7, 2011)

Hmmm interesting conversation going on here. And I hate to jump in the middle of it but what I think is Zeldana has the most room for character growth. Which is a big plus as I see it.

We can't help the family we are born to. And Zeldana can't help the surgate family she is thrown in with. Remember Pharasma is also the goddess of fate and prophesy not just death (although that is all anyone ever really sees).

You will have a real chance to RP some snips at other characters. A real Spock/McCoy relationship with the duergar after you have adventured together a little while.

It is true what you say about CHA as it relates to most classes crunch wise but I use it as an RP tool mostly. And your failed Diplomacy check was only off by one (same as if you swing and miss by one it happens). You will get more chances to use it I am sure.

And everyone is a front line fighter compared to these thugs you will all see soon as I get a Combat stats chart up. 

I think it is great that Zeldana has reservations about this group and what is in store for them it will make for some great reading as you play it out.

HM


----------



## Herobizkit (Apr 7, 2011)

<<must spread around XP etc etc...>>

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] is #winning!


----------



## Orius (Apr 7, 2011)

I wasn't worried about these hicks with pitchforks much. I peeked in on the other two threads HM is running, and it blows over. 

Looks like we got ourselves and actual fight brewing here. This should be interesting.

As for the paladin, as long as he fights to subdue rather than kill, that should be fine.  At least that's how I'd rule things.


----------



## Herobizkit (Apr 7, 2011)

Hey, [MENTION=8863]Orius[/MENTION]!  No peeking!  No spoilers, please!


----------



## HolyMan (Apr 7, 2011)

Peeking is ok as it will show you all how far behind you are and what changes I will make for this group. 

Like the will (I have to add a pocket watch to it )

HM


----------



## rangerjohn (Apr 7, 2011)

What you say is true HM, but on the diplomacy front how many times am I going to roll 17+.  You've seen my rolls.


----------



## HolyMan (Apr 7, 2011)

Can only get better my friend can only get better. 

HM


----------



## GandalfMithrandir (Apr 7, 2011)

Orius said:


> I wasn't worried about these hicks with pitchforks much. I peeked in on the other two threads HM is running, and it blows over.
> 
> Looks like we got ourselves and actual fight brewing here. This should be interesting.
> 
> *As for the paladin, as long as he fights to subdue rather than kill, that should be fine.  At least that's how I'd rule things.*




This


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## Herobizkit (Apr 7, 2011)

@rangerjohn : If you thought you were going to attempt diplomacy, perhaps you should have taken Diplomacy as one of your skills.  There's always next level, though.  We have someone who's spec'd in Diplomacy (the bugbear), so I wouldn't panic too much.

From your character description, I don't see how Diplomacy would fit the character concept... you've only known a handful of people.  I can't see your character having lengthy chats about why x,y,z is the best option with a group of hostile people.

I see your character as an introvert who needs to be encouraged to come out of your shell.


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## renau1g (Apr 7, 2011)

Yeah, I figured in this case, Intimidate would've worked better, but c'est la vie, either way I rolled a 2, no chance.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 7, 2011)

I find it both amusing and sad that I'm the only one who attacked.  Call it an impromptu Intimidate check.


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## renau1g (Apr 7, 2011)

I cast Grease...that's kind of an attack


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## Caim (Apr 7, 2011)

_Lawful Good: A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished. Lawful good combins honor with compassion._

This is the definition of lawful good straight from the book. I will defend myself regardless of an NPC's social standing. If a farmer wants to attack me, by LAW I have a right to defend myself. If he dies in the process, my bad. We tried to talk to these guys and it looked like it was boiling down to a fight because we didn't play it right or our rolls just sucked. This is not the first paladin I have played. I've played paladins that have been ruthless and not to be rude, but I will not be told what is expected of me as a paladin by another player. I would never do that to someone else and will not tolerate it from someone else. I'm here to have fun plain and simple and would hope that everyone is here for the same. I did not draw first either and I am not referring to Daggal. The hicks with pitchforks did. I would never kill an innocent as a lawful good character, but I will protect myself without mercy if it comes to it.

I will ask this one last time...if anyone has a problem with me playing a paladin or how I am playing him or may play him. Tell me now, early on when I can change things or simply leave and let you guys play. I'm not trying to be rude but I'm not going to be told that 'this this and this is expected of you paladin'. So my apologies to anyone this offended...


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## GandalfMithrandir (Apr 7, 2011)

I certainly am not offended, and I don't think anyone else is (I may be wrong, but I don't think so) but what I think is the situation, as I see it, is that it might not be the best plan to kill the villagers, and nonlethal force may be the best option, also from the viewpoint of a paladin, and I'm not saying you have to do this, BTW, I'm just giving an explanation, but a paladin might say "These people are bad, I can use nonlethal force to subdue them until such time as a trial can be arranged, or something like that, you can kill them, but then local authorities may get involved, just like in real life, you can kill a robber but you're still going to get in trouble with the law, etc.

Again, not trying to tell you you can't kill the villagers, but I don't think it's necessarily the best option we have at the moment.


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## Caim (Apr 7, 2011)

I know man and I may be taking it too personal. You have zero to worry about my paladin in terms of morals and, Daggal's case I have told him, of attacking an evil character that is not acting in an evil manner in my presence. More than likely I will take the AoO and disarm the hicks. So no worries guys. Not every game will go the same even if its the exact same game.

Lets have fun and stab some hicks with pitchforks!!!


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## renau1g (Apr 7, 2011)

My favorite paladin is Shield of Innocence, IIRC he was willing to cut through an entire town of peasants as they got in the way of the greater good (i.e. kept him from his mission) because he was an orog. 

Shield of Innocence - The Forgotten Realms Wiki - Books, races, classes, and more
Lands of Intrigue (boxed set) - The Forgotten Realms Wiki - Books, races, classes, and more


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## Herobizkit (Apr 7, 2011)

The sad fact of the matter is, if we're TRULY "role-playing", we don't have time to discuss battle strategies.

This is partly why PbP's perturb me - everything is happening "right now" but in the context of reality, it's taking several days to play out.


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## renau1g (Apr 7, 2011)

I've (finally) updated my gear. For my spice item I was thinking the scroll case could be a cool one.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 7, 2011)

Still have no idea what I would want for my spice item.  But I do have a couple of ideas for their origin.  One it could be an item from my elven father connecting her to her past.  Or two some relic the Professor found that would introduce something into the campaign you would like, a lost civilization for example.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 7, 2011)

Here is the nefarious watch in question.


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## renau1g (Apr 8, 2011)

Here's a pretty sweet looking scroll case. BTW - that's a really cool looking watch.


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## HolyMan (Apr 8, 2011)

Great I can work with all that. 

Combat update tonight I saw WD on and was hoping for an action (but he is under the weather) so will advance the round tonight.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 13, 2011)

Well round two is updated...

Also while I have you here TSS only two things I see on your chnaged sheet 

1) should have +3 Class skill bonus to Perception.

and 

2) your Equipment was a little off. To help just quote/copy/paste what's below and replace your equipment area on your sheet.

[sblock=Equipment]

```
Item                         Cost     Weight
Scale Mail                   50gp     30 lbs. 
Shield, Heavy Wooden          7gp     10 lbs.
Bastard Sword(spice)         00gp      6 lbs.
Longbow                      75gp      3 lbs.
  Arrows (20)                 1gp      3 lbs.
Holy Symbol, silver          25gp      1 lbs.
Backpack                      2gp      2 lbs.
   Bedroll                    1sp      5 lbs.
   Flint and Steel            1gp       ---
   Torch x3                   3cp      3 lbs.
   Whetstone                  2cp      1 lbs.
   Waterskin                  1gp      4 lbs.
```
Treasure: 12gp, 8sp, 5cp Gems: none
Total weight carried: 68 lbs.
Maximum weight possible: Light (76), Medium (77-153) Heavy (154-230)[/sblock]

Will try and do Todarg before the week is out.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 13, 2011)

@ WD - Withdraw only allows for you to not receive an AoO from the square you start in. So I had Hagnim move up (no AoO) then move diagonal away from the thug (which drew the AoO).

There was no way to get to 10C without at least one of the thugs getting a swing at you.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 19, 2011)

Yikes looks like this group will have a lot of trust building to try and do. And with a -4 Diplomacy Modifier to start it will be an up hill battle. But possible.

rangerjohn - I'm not sure if you know my HR for channel energy bit it is as follows:

*Modifier added to Channel Energy Rolls =*

1/2 cleric LvL + Wis modifier

This is to give it a little more pep at low levels and when you mutli-class it will still be able to go up a little (if you raise your WIS).

HM


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## rangerjohn (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks, no I did not know about that.  As for the trust factor, I do not know what to do about that.  It goes back to my earlier arguments.  Why would they trust us?  I feel like a life guard trying to help a drowning man being pulled under.  I keep trying to do the right thing, and the situation keeps worsening.  At some point I'm going to have to let him go.  Ie leave.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 19, 2011)

a) We do not know what actions create or destroy trust.
b) We did not notice the poor sap dying until he was dead.
c) We've just barely started a MASSIVE adventure path.  We do quests, we come back heroes, we likely gain trust.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 19, 2011)

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that killing a citizen will not engender trust.  I too attacked, out of self defense after it was obvious they would not stand down, but I still attacked.  Its just that the deck is stacked against us.  We start out distrusted because we are outsiders, our behavior to date hasn't improved that opinion.


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## Orius (Apr 20, 2011)

Oh man. We're really getting this campaign off to a good start.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 20, 2011)

We're not your classic heroes.  We're the other guys.  We're the ones nobody bets on.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 20, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> We're not your classic heroes.  We're the other guys.  We're the ones nobody bets on.



... and no one likes.


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## Herobizkit (Apr 20, 2011)

... yet.


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## renau1g (Apr 21, 2011)

I just create slippery situations, I didn't attack anybody... I'm just scary RAWR!

PS I'm just getting over a terrible flu that had me on my [MENTION=40136]SS[/MENTION] for the better part of the week...ugh...


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## Herobizkit (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm sure we can blame this in part on [MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION] 's flu...

But when our group loses face to the 'main' NPCs, then has a chance to redeem itself, and our FACE character with an 18 Charisma and actual ranks in Diplomacy says NOTHING...

I weep, both with laughter and regret that I didn't make a Bard like I always do.


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## renau1g (Apr 27, 2011)

I believe if you look approximately a few posts up I did try something, but that crit fail + the earlier failure of diplomacy (or was it intimidate?) left the PC feeling that it was better to keep his mouth shut lest he cause more harm for the situation.


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## HolyMan (Apr 27, 2011)

What I am sitting here laughing about is that the celestial worshiping human paladin of the group caused for a loss of Trust. Although I'm sure TSS didn't mean to roll that high it just happens. 

And then the devil worshiping duergar turns around and gains a little back. 

The dice sure are fickle for this game so far.

HM


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## Orius (Apr 28, 2011)

Well it makes things interesting.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 28, 2011)

So Zeldana's item will not be coming from the professor?


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## Herobizkit (Apr 28, 2011)

Like I said, I'm the most charming Duergar you may ever meet.  And yes, the dice do add some drama when they roll in unexpected ways.

I think it's fitting that the devil worshiper got some trust back - I mean, come on, if a devil worshiper can say something nice(ish) about the Professor, his group can't be ALL bad...!

Darn paladins.  I warned yas!  *shakes fist*


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## Walking Dad (Apr 28, 2011)

> Last I checked, there was no ice OR snow in these parts.




Actually, from the art previews of the adventure and for the Ustalav region, there is. May our DM say something regarding the weather and season?


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## HolyMan (Apr 29, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> _Winter has been over for a week or more now, but  in Ustalav you could hardly tell. The ground is cold and hard and the  wind bites at you when it finds a place exposed from under your cloak._
> 
> But at least it is not raining. Though this morning a misty rain fill  and had it been a bit colder it would have turned to snow. The weather  is partly responsible for your lateness to attend the funeral of your  friend Professor Petros Lorrimor. But luckily you arrived on the morning  of the service and after a quick gathering of information at the only  church in the small town of Ravengro you have come (finally) to The  Restlands, the local cemetery, and the funeral progression.
> 
> ...





Sure did it was just a while back... 

I am thinking of having a robin snow don't worry WD. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 29, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> So Zeldana's item will not be coming from the professor?




Your background says that he did give her an "object" and that she still carries it to this day.

I have been waiting for what it is exactly (not needed till you reach 2nd lvl but would help me decide properties of it).

HM


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## Herobizkit (Apr 29, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Actually, from the art previews of the adventure and for the Ustalav region, there is.



Meh, it was a roundabout way to tell the dwarf to go home.  They can't ALL be gold, right?


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## rangerjohn (May 23, 2011)

Just to sooth any concerns, I will not be leaving this game.  I do not expect it to complete its full run, but I will allow it its run.  However this will be my last game here.  History has shown, at least in my case, 0% completion rate of campaigns here.


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## HolyMan (May 23, 2011)

0% WoW that is really unfair for such a long time. 

Have you thought of making a character for a Living World. In those if the game meanders out someone is around to fill in (usually a judge).

And I know in the LPF that I have completed more adventures (ok they were all short but the group completed the goal/quest) than any others I have tried getting off the ground.

I'm sure it is the same for LEW, LEB, and L4W.

HM


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## Herobizkit (May 23, 2011)

I gotta say, I'm in rangerjohn's situation... so many games joined, but either the posting was too slow, or the GM quit.


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## HolyMan (May 23, 2011)

Well I am here for the long haul. My RL group broke up about two years ago and I remembered I had fun RPing here (for the short time I did before my incarceration ).

This game will go through all six modules so I hope everyone else is in it for the long haul as well.

HM


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## Caim (May 23, 2011)

I haven't had the misfortune of rangerjohn or Herobizkit, but I'm not going anywhere. As long as it holds my attention I would never leave and if I'm in a game I WILL finish it unless it fizzles to nothing. I say we raise 20 million dollars and purchase an island and call it E'n and get all the RPers to live there. That way we never run out of games...

Also for some reason my home games fizzle...I don't know why. Also we lost our normal GM, the worst I have ever had by the way, because he split with his wife. The reason why he was the worst? He was loose with the rules and by loose I mean they almost didn't exist. We would gain 2-3 levels at a time. Things like that. In his games with all the material he made and allowed...you could break any class. He created a bow that dealt 2d12's and when I first met him I asked him about it. He said it was created by Gnomes and was magically treated to speed up the air behind the arrow. So I accepted that. I askd what the cost of it was...10,000gp. I said ok. I asked what spells are needed to create this magical bow...none. Truth be told I'm glad he is gone so I can avoid telling him no...

Also HM are you allowing us to use UM for this game?


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## HolyMan (May 23, 2011)

I am still reading my copy of UM - I haven't found anything to to bad yet. But I am going to very firm with what I allow so as not to upset the game (which was designed and playtested before UM came out).

So as long as what you want fits the character concept it should be allowed without problem.

HM


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## GandalfMithrandir (May 24, 2011)

sorry for the gap in posting, RL has been keeping me very busy, I will have Josef jump into the conversation soon


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## Orius (May 24, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I gotta say, I'm in rangerjohn's situation... so many games joined, but either the posting was too slow, or the GM quit.




Well honestly, I jumped into running a game without really being fully prepared to run a message board game.  I didn't have a good feel for the pace, but I felt the need to DM a game since I hadn't in quite a long time.

Anyway, I think HM's good for it, he seems to be doing a decent job running his various games.  I'll stick with them as long as I can so as not to inconvenience him, playing a character in one of these games isn't terribly time consuming, so it's not a problem.


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## HolyMan (May 25, 2011)

All depends on the game and the "recap schedule" I have for it.

Most are weekly - except during combat - And I hope everyone will post up once a week. Some are as soon as everyone checks in.

I don't have a group around here and the game store went out of business so my hobby is limited to EnWorld. Is alright with me I learn more and more do to the various games/players.

This game is weekly - I will push through about every WED to something new. As I now have the third module and we are still on Chapter 2 of the first. 

HM


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## HolyMan (May 25, 2011)

Sorry to say but renau1g has had to give up a couple games due to  RL. This was one of them. I am still figuring out the effects this has on the group and the game.

I am thinking his character doesn't have the time to stay a whole 30 days as he has other things he was doing that take precedence.

HM


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## rangerjohn (May 25, 2011)

[sblock=OOC] Then we better recruit or give up.  Obviously, the dice roller dislikes TSS as much as myself.[/sblock]


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## Herobizkit (May 25, 2011)

@HolyMan : But but he's our FACE character!


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## Herobizkit (May 25, 2011)

@rangerjohn : This is the OOC thread, you don't need to put your text in an OOC sblock. 

It seems like everyone but me is despairing over our rough patch.  

I'm surprised that this game is on a weekly schedule.  Given its size, I would have thought every 2-3 days to be too SLOW.  I have yet to run a game on the boards, so I can't say for sure.


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## HolyMan (May 25, 2011)

I would update it bi-weekly or better yet as soon as I get everyone to post up.

My Forge of Fury game is an update after everyone posts and it went through 6 rounds of combat in one week once. 

HM


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## HolyMan (May 25, 2011)

rangerjonh's character does have a little conflict of interest. And how you play it out is totally up to you.

I was thinking for the sake of the players present that everyone playing a character currently (and has time -  GM) would go to the crypt. All others would head to the Temple (NPCed not really played out - a single roll/try and then done) and then I could have them return to the house - before or after the group depending on the outcome of their diplomacy check.

Group to Crypts:
 - Daggal
- Hagnim
- Daros
- Zeldana
- Aerodus

Group to Temple:
 - Todarg
- Joseph


Could be a dozen reasons why your character decides it is better to go to the temple in the morning rangerjohn. As there could be a dozen reasons not to and go that night. Up to you to decide what they are.

But this being pbp and on the slow side I think for further decisions majority should rule and you should go with the flow and base your characters actions off that. 

So right now all I need to know is what Zeldana will do and I will advance the thread.

HM


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## rangerjohn (May 25, 2011)

Oh, I have no problem going with the majority.  I was just pointing out the danger if we get caught before talking.  We will be more distrusted than we already are.  With TSS rolls to date, he doesn't need more penalties.  But if the majority still wish to take that risk, then that is what Zeldana will do.


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## Herobizkit (May 25, 2011)

Ah, now see, this is why I love role-playing. For every action, there is an equal and three other reactions.

Playing Devil's Advocate resulted in a plan from me trying to be sarcastic.

See what I did there?


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## Orius (May 27, 2011)

Oh I'm around, I tend to zone out when there's RPing and I don't have anything particular to say.

Also, I was having some intermittent problems connecting to ENWorld during the evening a few times this week as well.


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## rangerjohn (May 28, 2011)

*Connection Issues*

I have had connection issues as well.  Is the site being upgraded?


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## Caim (May 31, 2011)

So denial is the answer. 'No sherriff the door was unlocked so I wndered in and the tv was just there.' 

To be honest I would tell them the truth. 'Why were you in the cemetery?' 'We have reason to believe that the late professor was working on finding and destroying a lich.' 

We WILL lose 'Trust Score' regardless of how this is done if we are caught. 

@Daggal: The 'take up the rear' thing was because I think your the best or I maybe the best for that roll. Simply to ensure we are not caught from behind. In or out of character there was no ill intent.

As far as this game goes and any of my PBP games. This is the only one where I've had such a hard time to 'get along' so to speak with some of the other players. I guess this is my fault but its a little weird to me. I realize that me being a paladin may have something to do with this but why? I was going to play him alot darker than most paladins are and can quickly be that way. If its too much of a problem then let me know. I can either roll up another character or simply wait for another Carrion Crown game to start.

@HM whatever you got I'm in it to win it but if party chemistry is off its not good for anyone.


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## rangerjohn (May 31, 2011)

TSS its not you or your paladin, its the dark dwarf.  It has nothing to do with alignment.  He's simply an ass, this has come up before.  However, I think his comment was pointed at Zeldana, we've had a difference of opinion, over relegion, from the beginning.


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## Caim (May 31, 2011)

I get that there will be differences but its going to cause problems eventually. To be honest I think it already has.


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## Herobizkit (May 31, 2011)

What you are all seeing as problems, I'm seeing as a great adventure that isn't like your standard "we're the shiny good guys, thus everyone bends over backwards to make it easy" type adventure.  

I also love playing against type, but I've also been playing nearly 25 years... "Hero" is a word I seldom use these days... except in my nick.  Heh.

Put a different way, we lost our face character; if we tried and failed a few diplomacy checks, we wouldn't even be able to GO to the cemetery because "good guys don't break and enter" (Chaotic Good ones might, but I don't think we have any of them).

What we DO have is a couple of Neutrals tossed in with a Lawful Good paladin and a Lawful Evil inquisitor.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ[/ame]


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## Walking Dad (May 31, 2011)

Terrible Swift Sword said:


> So denial is the answer. 'No sherriff the door was unlocked so I wndered in and the tv was just there.'
> 
> To be honest I would tell them the truth. 'Why were you in the cemetery?' 'We have reason to believe that the late professor was working on finding and destroying a lich.'
> 
> ...




And your point is? Let me play my character, please. And if your character has a problem with his opinion (he stated IC), please answer in the IC thread.


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## rangerjohn (May 31, 2011)

This was Zeldana's argument from the get go.  You can try the "dark" path if diplomacy doesn't work.  The reverse is not true.  However the decision is made, the group decided this route, and Zeldana is doing her best to accomplish it.


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## Caim (May 31, 2011)

IC response. You got it. Aerodus will be played as I intended. 

[MENTION=31944]Zel[/MENTION]dana is not the problem and its not even the rolls. We all have bad rolls and I know that best on this flippin site. 

Are we down a player or does he just not post unless he needs to?


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## rangerjohn (Jun 1, 2011)

Were down our faceman hobgoblin sorcerer.  I'm not aware of any others.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 1, 2011)

Orius said:


> Oh I'm around, I tend to zone out when there's RPing and I don't have anything particular to say.
> 
> Also, I was having some intermittent problems connecting to ENWorld during the evening a few times this week as well.



That guy is waiting to fight something.   Also, [MENTION=82765]GandalfMithrandir[/MENTION] has been having connection issues as of late, too.


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## rangerjohn (Jun 1, 2011)

I too have been having connection issues.  I know its surprising since my posts dominate the thread but it true nonetheless.


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## HolyMan (Jun 1, 2011)

I hope your character's IC grumblings have nothing to do with the way each player treats one another.

The point of this group is to go "the other route" in just about everything to see if they can accomplish the goals of the game and not all be knight's in shining armor.

Yes the first thing is to form that bond that all parties have and that can't be done unless you all get into some hair situations and "as a group" overcome them.

I think everyone is RPing in character fine. You can't all be the best of friends (it's not a perfect fantasy world) but I think once you get past the petty bickering, one upping, and mine is bigger than yours gesturing, a good party will form from this.

But you (The Players) need to want to play this style of game. I feel as if half of you do and half of you don't. 

Rant over, GAME ON!

HM


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## Orius (Jun 2, 2011)

That's not my kind of neutral.  I'm more of a "I just don't give a  in any way" kind of neutral.



Herobizkit said:


> That guy is waiting to fight something.   Also, [MENTION=82765]GandalfMithrandir[/MENTION] has been having connection issues as of late, too.




Well, I'll RP too, it just depends on whether or not I have anything to say.  And sometimes it depends on how quickly I can come up with a response on the spot, or if I'm just waiting to see what everyone else is doing.


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## HolyMan (Jun 2, 2011)

Everyone is fighting zombies along with Daros.

HM


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## HolyMan (Jun 5, 2011)

[MENTION=8863]Orius[/MENTION] 

In answer to your question it takes 1 round to cast summon monster, plus I need a square you wish for him to be in. It will only stay around for one round but could give someone a flanking bonus for the round, before it disappears.

It will get one attack at: bite +2 (1d4+1) 

please pick a target and roll that as well as pick a target target for your disrupt undead. Oh  btw - no need to cross off he disrupt undead it is a cantrip and you may cast cantrips as many times in a day as you wish.

HM


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## Orius (Jun 6, 2011)

I'll have the summon appear at L8 or K9.  

I thought I specified a target for the disrupt undead.


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## HolyMan (Jun 6, 2011)

I meant a target for the dog to attack.

But note in the IC it wouldn't do enough dmg to hurt a zombie so I fluffed it out. Your spice item will help with this spell and others, just need to get a few lvls under your belt first. 

HM


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## Walking Dad (Jun 6, 2011)

Not even on a crit?


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## HolyMan (Jun 6, 2011)

guess you could roll to see if you get a 20 - I will in his post then. Thanks for reminding me WD.

HM


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## rangerjohn (Jun 6, 2011)

If this is a typical encounter for the path, we are in trouble.  We are using far too many resources.


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## HolyMan (Jun 6, 2011)

This is actually an Event. Something to give insight into what is happening later. I will post up a note about it in your misc post after the fight., so as not to forget it say 5 months from now (gotta love pbp).

HM


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## Herobizkit (Jun 7, 2011)

I batted my head when I realized what I didn't realize before about zombie encounters... this is a 'typical' zombie encounter, though the zombies may be a little beefier in the sinewy muscle department.


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## HolyMan (Jun 10, 2011)

Please post up IC or here that you are ready to advance and enter the mausoleum. (not you HB I know you are ready )

HM


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## Herobizkit (Jun 10, 2011)

Hur, hur hur.


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## GandalfMithrandir (Jun 13, 2011)

Am I still in this game? If not that's fine, but it looks like the party could use another fighter-type, maybe Josef was off doing other stuff before he came back for whatever reason.

I've just been having computer issues as of late.

GM


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## HolyMan (Jun 14, 2011)

Must be summer time  HEY GM 

Yes you are still in this but am afraid I have Josef off playing bodyguard for now. Once I get everyone back to The Lorrimor House your character will be there as well.

Group is getting ready to brave _The Haunted Halls of Harrowstone_ and so another martial type would be most welcome.

Might be a week though sorry.

HM


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## GandalfMithrandir (Jun 14, 2011)

Np hm!


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## HolyMan (Jun 15, 2011)

Trapfinding - Anyone may search for a mundane trap but only a rogue can locate magical ones.

HM


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## HolyMan (Jun 23, 2011)

I went and rolled everything for the surprise round to speed us along. It is now RD 1 and I need INIT from everyone but Daggal. If your INIT beats the monsters (INIT = 21) go ahead and post up an action please.

HM


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## HolyMan (Jul 7, 2011)

Needs a bump??

HM


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## rangerjohn (Jul 7, 2011)

?!  I thought combat was over and we were investigating the goodies.


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## HolyMan (Jul 8, 2011)

Quite true but no one has posted what there character is doing. Do you wish me to forgo all that and say you Id the items after enough time has passed (on the average 12-24 hours)?

I am finding that in pbp it seems fast if you just let the group know what it is they found, if their is time IC to take care of identifying things. 

HM


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## rangerjohn (Jul 8, 2011)

I was at least expecting a post about returning to the lady's house.  Where it would be more expedient to conduct research then in the middle of a tomb where we are trespassing.  Now as for noone else speaking up, that is another issue.


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## HolyMan (Jul 8, 2011)

But it only takes the casting of detect magic(6 seconds), 3 rounds(18 seconds) and a spellcraft check to try and ID an item. Not long at all.

HM


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## rangerjohn (Jul 8, 2011)

Zeldana does not have the skill.  It cannot be used untrained.  The gentleman who has the skill failed his check.  He needs 24 hrs to try again.  Hence him stating he needed more time to do research in character.


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## HolyMan (Jul 9, 2011)

I saw that but it  would be a roll per item oh well next time. Also you could ask Kendra she even takes identify every morning. 

Will advance this to the next morning everyone post up going back to the Lorrinor House and settleing in for bed (this way I know you are ready to move on).

HM


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## Herobizkit (Jul 10, 2011)

Perhaps we should nominate a "leader".  The "leader" player would basically control where the players go as a group (as a marker, if you will) instead of everyone having to post they're all going to the same place.  

Worked in 1e.


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## HolyMan (Jul 12, 2011)

If all the players are willing and you have it that the player and not his/her character is doing the deciding. 

I like everyone to "check in" normally before I advance something as a player may wish to have their character do something else sometimes. If I say "You all head back to the Lorrimor house and study the items before going to bed," (which I am about to btw) a player may feel rushed that they didn't get to look around or stop off at this place or that before I moved the thread. 

Long as I get an IC post or OOC here that people are ready then I feel better about advancing things.

HM


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## Walking Dad (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm ready, but I slowly get the feeling that a nature themed character (like a druid) maybe isn't the best character choice for that seems (for now) like an urban campaign with only some rural travel between urban 'encounters'.

Maybe I'm totally wrong, as I try to read/know nothing of this AP.


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## HolyMan (Jul 12, 2011)

Well from what I have at the moment - first four parts - there is more wilderness/dungeon encounters than city. The only city (so far) is the one you are to travel to after this module - and you won't be staying long before off on more adventure. 

A druid I think is a very good choice for this AP WD. 

HM


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## Walking Dad (Jul 12, 2011)

City was maybe a bit much. But I consider permanent homes, shops and an established graveyard (where we are now) as urban, too.

I also like the character and will stay 
I hope he will become a bit more mechanically effective as he levels. Currently he isn't very good at range (no good weapon choice), melee (low strength) or spellcasting (no direct damage spells and summoning duration is to short). But at least the last point will become better with time (I hope).

And channeling makes the cleric much better vs undead or at healing.


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## Herobizkit (Jul 12, 2011)

@Walking Dad 

13 Str isn't low.  At all.  (I was expecting 8-10).
Your ranged weapons do either 1d4+1 (dagger, dart, sling) or 1d6+1 (club, shortspear) damage.  You can huck a regular spear (1d8), AND use it as a two-handed weapon, but you likely won't be carrying many of those around. 

Melee-wise, your one-handers do 1d6+1 (club, scimitar [crit 18-20], sickle, shortspear).  Not too shabby.  Hide armor plus large wooden shield is +6 AC, and I assume you have a high Dex (17... +3 to AC) ... so you're not useless in melee with a 19 AC.  Flanking will help you hit better.

... but your real power must come from your spells, then.

If you're looking for raw damage:

Magic Stone gives you three 1d6+1 MAGIC rocks to chuck, 2d6+2 vs UNDEAD.
Shillelagh turns a club or staff into a +1 MAGIC weapon that does 2d6+1 damage for 1 min/level.  

Entangle is still the penultimate battlefield control spell.  One of those is a near auto-win for a party armed with missile weapons.

... and there are some gems in the APG and the new UM guide, too, if HM will let you choose from those as well.

Short answer: there's nothing wrong with your PC at all.  With decent Strength, melee and ranged combat is quite feasible but your real power comes from your spells.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 12, 2011)

My ability to hit in melee was pretty bad vs the zombies. But thanks, I missed the extra damage vs Undead by Magic Stones


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## Herobizkit (Jul 12, 2011)

Zombies are tough enough with 2d12 HD, then you factor in their resistance to non-blunt weapons... and add in that they were a planned encounter and deliberately more powerful in this specific area...

You did fine, and will continue to do so. 

I think I'm the only person in my old gaming group who's ever played a Druid for more than one session... and we're talking 1e to today.


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## rangerjohn (Jul 13, 2011)

Continuing the discussion from the IC thread.  The problem as I see it is we are putting forth our best efforts to no gain.  Eventually, one of three things is going to happen.  One we give up in disgust, two we get excummincated from the community, or three will we kill everyone in the village or some combination thereof.

So what is the point?  Surely this is not how the adventure is designed.  It is one thing for something to be hard, another for it to be hopeless. When you make one step forward to be pushed three steps back it is hopeless.


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## Herobizkit (Jul 14, 2011)

One, we (the players) have no reason to give up in disgust.  The characters (all of 'em, including yours) just plain aren't that nice, friendly, or personable.  Even the Paladin is "burn 'em all, let Pelor or whoever sort 'em out."

Two, so we get excommunicated from the town.  Big deal.  Many PC's spend their whole pre-10th level lives camping and digging through ruins.  Our job is to stop the lich... not for them, for US.

Three.  The town decides to get all suicidal/homicidal.  Hey... free houses.

I propose to those of us still playing.  Re-introduce your character and explain why you're REALLY on this adventure.

Daggal Harjyr, Duergar Inquisitor.  Bugger Professor owes me a watch... I got it, but now there's talk of a cult.  Cults are bad for business, and it's a cult I've dealt with before.  I owe them lots for driving me out of Cheliax and, as a result, my becoming a slave.  The cult worships undead, and it is undead that I must destroy in order to weaken the cult's influence. And I may be tough, but even I can see that the task is too daunting for myself alone.  And besides, more people, more riches, more glory... and perhaps I can get back to business in Cheliax with some relics in tow.  Everyone wants to retire rich, right?


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## HolyMan (Jul 14, 2011)

Easiest way to stop losing trust is to complete the adventure. 

Besides that there will be other ways for the group to earn trust as they adventure in and around Ravengro. I think the -1 per day is so the group doesn't sit on it's thumbs till the 30 days are up.

HM


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## rangerjohn (Jul 14, 2011)

Must be a big number for completing the adventure.  Because the steps along the way don't help.  It would have to be a big number just to get back to zero.  Then after all of that, what have you accomplished?  Hero goods and riches are all well and good, but where do you spend them?  You planning on leaving the country?


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## Orius (Jul 14, 2011)

My character is only concerned about what only one inhabitant of Ravengro thinks of him.  The others are nothing but unwashed, unlettered, ignorant, superstitious hicks as far as he's concerned and they're his inferiors.  What does he care about trust?  The sooner he gets out of this heap of huts, the better as far as he's concerned, he's only sticking around for Kendra's benefit and to find out what happened to the professor.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 14, 2011)

Hey, I play a druid... the townsfolk doesn't loike me and force me into the wilderness... ok...
More seriously, the motivation for my dwarf to stay isn't very big. Mostly greed to get his money/stuff. But undead are unnatural so he will help to get them away as best as he can.


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## Herobizkit (Jul 14, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Hero goods and riches are all well and good, but where do you spend them?  You planning on leaving the country?



You plan on retiring in this backwater burg?   I don't plan on striking it rich, then building a cottage and becoming a farmer in this gloomy village.

I *could* pull a Roadhouse and become an over-the-top tyrant with an iron grip on the poor, simple folk, crushing them with kindness and a 20% protection fee.  But hey.  I have bigger plans... and I can't buy what I want here.


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## rangerjohn (Jul 15, 2011)

Everything you say is true, except for one thing.  The whole country is a bunch of backwater superstitious hicks.  According to the player's guide anyhow.  Think Romania, Ravenloft etc.  As for why Zeldana is here this has been discussed ad nauseum.  To put to rest one of her only friends, follow his last wishes and apparently be tortured by the Lady she serves.  In her office as overseer of the Fates.


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## GandalfMithrandir (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm still here, last week my town got hit by a mega-windstorm that caused lots of damage and took out my power for a week, but now I'm back and ready to play if needed.


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## HolyMan (Jul 19, 2011)

Please post IC GM. And see what it is your character would like from the loot.

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 31, 2011)

Well if you are all playing at home you will notice that the monster is down to 7 HP and Zeldana will be channeling for 7 dmg on her turn. With a -5 will save I think this thing may be toast, but you never can be to sure. 

For those that can please post up an attack roll and when we get to 4 dmg dealt by the other members of the party then we will be for sure the thing is dead.

I will update the thread WED night and roll for those who don't have the free min.

HM


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