# Hybrid Classes...Anybody seen a good one lately?



## mysticknight232 (May 19, 2010)

I jest as i don't feel the Hybrid's are very good.  But I do have a serious question.  Has anybody played one longterm or in a longer campaign at least?  I'm curious on peoples thoughts about them, either how fun they are or how effective they are?  It seems to me that they took the nerf bat to each class and turned them all into the 3.5e bard...they do a little of everything, but nothing at all like you want them to and therefore they become less effective at everything they try to do.  

Now, I understand the point was to keep them from being too powerful, which is why they limited or eliminated certain class features from the hybrid build.  I understand all this and am only curious as to how the hybrid class has been received by others who have actually played one.  

My group is anticipating playing a short campaign where we all have to play hybrid's.  I'm leaning towards Fighter/Runepriest, Paladin/Cleric or Avenger/Invoker myself.  

Thanks and happy hunting!


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## mneme (May 19, 2010)

I haven't bothered playing a hybrid myself; too much complexity.  But while just randomly shoving two hybrids togeter will give you someone who can pinch hit in one of two roles but isn't that great in either, there are plenty of hybrid combinations that are more than the sum of their parts.

Paladin/Warlock has feats that are tailor made for the combination.    D10s for curse damage once you're marked and cursed the same critter; you're going to generally lock a target down and kill it with warlock powers, with paladin powers giving you extra choices for attacks with your weapon.

Warlock/Wizard isn't bad either (Infernal or Vestige or Staff Wizard or Summoner -- Con/Int pair -- or Illusionist/Cha Warlock, for that matter); use warlock for single target damage and debuffs and wizard when you need to lock down a nest of enemies or clear out minions.

Ideally, you want:

Either a pair of stats that both classes love (wizard/invoker, Bard/Cleric) or a single primary stat shared by both classes.
Only one (at most) class with riders on attacks (which will be your primary attack class).  If there's something good you're doing with the other class, it should be situational, so you can do the situational thing some of the time and the 
At least one class should do something good with minor actions. (so you can act as both classes all the time, not 50/50.
Weapon/Implement compatability (if necessary, with a feat) -- note that you get some of this for free with the Hybrid rules, but you're on your own for weapons and to an extent, weapliments.
Some cool bit of extra synergy you're getting for the pairing (like the Crimson Fire feat for Warlock/Paladins -- though some of these are less tacked on).


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## bganon (May 20, 2010)

I think the best hybrid combos are classes that mesh well stat-wise, and have powers that complement each other *without* being too similar.  If they're too close, then you're just going to notice the hybrid shortcomings rather than any new synergy.  Also, the implement-sharing bit of the hybrid rules is one of the very unique things about hybrids, and I think a lot of good combos make use of it.

The Paladin/Warlock is a good example of this.  It's already fun to use a holy symbol for Warlock powers, but the classes mesh well without overlap: Warlocks are great at single-target status effects while Paladins are the best single-target lockdown defenders.  Put them together and you get a character who can shut down solos hard.

Avenger/Invoker is interesting and has a lot of the same up-sides as the Paladin/Warlock, but it might take a bit more work to pull off.  The Avenger half needs to engage in melee against a single foe, whereas many Invoker powers are about hitting a lot of targets, so the synergy might be tricky.  On the other hand, the most obvious build (Wis/Int) is one where both classes are strongly discouraging targets from clumping together, so an Avenger/Invoker hybrid might be awesome at breaking up formations.

IMO the Paladin/Cleric would not be such a great choice.  There are already warpriest Cleric builds and "healer" Paladin builds for single-class characters, so I don't see how a hybrid does much that's new.  The two classes already share a lot of characteristics.

Fighter/Runepriest sounds pretty awesome to me.  If you take Rune Master as your Hybrid Talent option, you're almost as good as a straight Runepriest, except now you've got some Fighter hit points, martial weapons, marking, and free access to all those wonderful high-damage Fighter powers.  You'll hit hard, do a little bit of tanking, *and* buff all your allies while doing it.


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## Otterscrubber (May 20, 2010)

Leader hybrids dont seem to work too well IMO, they lose their encounter healing ability which ties into a lot of their other stuff.  Although I had a great Half-Orc Ranger/Monk combo that was going to be fun.  Not great defense, but super solid offense. 

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Half-Orc, Monk|Ranger, Paragon Hybrid
Monastic Tradition (Hybrid): Stone Fist (Hybrid)
Hybrid Monk: Hybrid Monk Reflex
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Fighting Style
Ranger Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style (Hybrid)
Paragon Hybrid Talent: Unarmored Defense

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 13, Dex 21, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10.


AC: 28 Fort: 22 Reflex: 25 Will: 19
HP: 85 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +17, Nature +11, Stealth +15, Acrobatics +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +8, Heal +6, History +4, Insight +6, Intimidate +7, Perception +6, Religion +4, Streetwise +5, Thievery +10

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 4: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Axe)
Level 8: Unarmored Agility
Level 10: Weapon Proficiency (Waraxe)
Level 11: Eyes in the Back of Your Head

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Five Storms
Hybrid encounter 1: Rising Storm
Hybrid daily 1: Harmonious Thunder
Hybrid utility 2: Archer's Stairway
Hybrid encounter 3: Thundertusk Boar Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Snarling Wolf Stance
Hybrid utility 6: Centered Defense
Hybrid encounter 7: Finishing Cut
Hybrid daily 9: Splintering Shot
Hybrid utility 10: Leap of the Heavens

ITEMS
Githweave Armor of Resistance +3, Berserker Waraxe +2, Ki Waraxe +2, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Necklace of Keys +2, Viper Belt (heroic tier), Hedge Wizard's Gloves (heroic tier), Quickling Boots (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


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## Mr. Teapot (May 20, 2010)

Otterscrubber said:


> Leader hybrids dont seem to work too well IMO, they lose their encounter healing ability which ties into a lot of their other stuff.




They still get the default healing, albeit only once per encounter, not twice.  That makes them about half as good a healer as a straight cleric/bard/whatever, which is where it should be.  If they pair two leader classes together, you can heal twice per encounter, just like a straight leader, albeit with some more versatility.  (And without the 16th level bump to 3/encounter.)


Some hybrids give up very little or find combinations that are better than their constituent parts.  Sorcerers give up very little when hybridizing, for example.  And Warlock + Defender class can be very effective, as the warlock powers disincentivize attacking you but the mark hurts them if they hit anyone else.  (I think I prefer Conlock + Warden over Chalock and Cha Paladin, but either would work.  Battlemind might work as well.)

The classic "more than the sum of its parts" hybrid is a rogue|ranger that takes a lot of free/minor/immediate action attacks so that it can Sneak attack and Hunter's Quarry every round.  The same principle could be used on other combos: a ranger|fighter could use a minor action attack to HQ and their standard to mark, for example.


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## keterys (May 20, 2010)

I really like swordmage/warlock.

Fighter/other defender looks like it could be viable (focus on what fighter gains, rather than what the other loses).

The Warden/Rogue (Str/Dex) I saw was not bad actually.


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## Herschel (May 20, 2010)

I like the Genasi (Assault) Swordmage/Barbarian. Nab all the interrupts/reactions (like Curtain of Steel and Dimensional Vortex) and attack with Howling Strike and Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade with White Lotus Riposte. Fullblade for accuracy and skip on Warding, at least until Paragon.


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## keterys (May 20, 2010)

Might as well get Barbarian Agility instead of Warding, if you're going to wait til Paragon.


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## Herschel (May 20, 2010)

Yep, I should have written that but thought it was implied.


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## AbdulAlhazred (May 20, 2010)

Generally swordmage and any compatible controller or striker class like wizard or warlock (pretty much any other arcane class actually) works VERY well. Many people believe swordmage is pretty much broken as a hybrid. Warding is essentially 100% functional for all tactical intents and purposes and adding in any of these other classes basically gives you something better than a standard swordmage, or so the reasoning goes.


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## On Puget Sound (May 20, 2010)

Chizz (see my sig link) is a hybrid ranger/rogue, designed to double-dip and get sneak attack and quarry damage in the same round, by having lots of attacks that aren't standard actions.  He's only level 4 now, but I think as he matures he will offer a unique fighting style that would not be as effective as either a full ranger or a full rogue.


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## Argyle King (May 20, 2010)

Some people seem to believe Hybrid Wizards and Hybrid Warlocks are potentially better than single classed wizards or warlocks.  I can't say that I know that to be true myself since I've never tried a hybrid class, but that seems to be a commonly held belief.


Personally, I'd like to try a hybrid Warlord/Paladin; it seems like a good pairing with good synergy.

Wizard/Invoker seems like it would work well too.

From a fluff standpoint, I like the idea of a Monk/Artificer and playing it as a drunken master.  Your infusions could be alcohols which you brew or drink.


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## Alukane (May 20, 2010)

This is Daimon, the Hybrid I'm playing. I'm having a lot of fun with him. I'm in a group of 6 characters with a Warlord, a Warden, a 2weapon figter, a sorcerer and a druid and it works well. Even if I lack a healing word per encounter I compensate with healer's mercy, healing strike, spirit of healing and astral seal (and Moment of Glory reduced something like 50 damage in last fight). I'm looking forward to take strengthen the faithful next level...He's a good healer and does a bit more damage than a base cleric. 

PS: My master haven't seen may update yet, I surely wan't tell him anything about it 

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Daimon, level 6
Human, Barbarian|Cleric
Hybrid Talent: Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Background: Durpar (Durpar Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 11.


AC: 22 Fort: 20 Reflex: 15 Will: 18
HP: 53 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 13

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +8, Perception +12, Heal +10, Athletics +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +3, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +5, History +3, Insight +5, Intimidate +3, Nature +5, Stealth +3, Streetwise +3, Thievery +3

FEATS
Human: Armor Proficiency (Chainmail)
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Armor Proficiency (Scale)
Level 4: Versatile Expertise
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Astral Seal
Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric): Healer's Mercy
Hybrid at-will 1: Righteous Brand
Hybrid at-will 1: Howling Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Healing Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Moment of Glory
Hybrid utility 2: Savage Growl
Hybrid encounter 3: Brutal Slam
Hybrid daily 5: Silver Phoenix Rage
Hybrid utility 6: Spirit of Healing

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Scale Armor of Dwarven Vigor +2, Challenge-Seeking Greatsword +2, Healer's Brooch +1, Symbol of Divinity +1, Climber's Kit


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## Mika (May 20, 2010)

Otterscrubber said:


> Leader hybrids dont seem to work too well IMO, they lose their encounter healing ability which ties into a lot of their other stuff.  Although I had a great Half-Orc Ranger/Monk combo that was going to be fun.  Not great defense, but super solid offense.
> 
> ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
> level 11
> ...




What level did you start playing this character at?  He would have had an AC of 14 at 1st level -- and my 1st level ranger|monk is having a tough enough time with an AC of 17.


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## Lord Ernie (May 20, 2010)

This is Alastor Caine (yeah, I like dramatic names), my Elf invoker|Cleric I've been playing since level 2. I'm now at level 9, and never had the feeling my character didn't have enough healing power to provide for our group of 5-6 players (I hybrided him partially because I had too much healing, to be honest). 

While you do indeed lose 1 healing word (2 from level 16 onwards), taking the right powerset can really shore up the issue (Stream of Life, my Skill Power, Healer's Mercy, Word of Vigor at level 10), and still leave you with plenty of control with your encounters/dailies. Oh, and the user choice feat is there cause we get Expertise for free.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Alastor Caine, level 9
Elf, Cleric|Invoker
Covenant Manifestation: Manifestation of Wrath
Hybrid Invoker: Hybrid Invoker Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Staff)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 13, Wis 20, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 16, Dex 11, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 22 Fort: 21 Reflex: 17 Will: 22
HP: 61 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 15

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +14, Heal +14, Religion +10, Arcana +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +7, History +5, Intimidate +4, Nature +11, Perception +11, Stealth +4, Streetwise +4, Thievery +4, Athletics +2

FEATS
Learned Spellcaster: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Learned Spellcaster
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Skill Power
Level 6: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Feat User Choice: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: In Death, Life

POWERS
Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric): Healer's Mercy
Hybrid at-will 1: Sacred Flame
Hybrid at-will 1: Hand of Radiance
Skill Power: Swift Recovery
Hybrid encounter 1: Lightning's Revelation
Hybrid daily 1: Silent Malediction
Hybrid utility 2: Know Weakness
Hybrid encounter 3: Hymn of Resurgence
Hybrid daily 5: Weapon of the Gods
Hybrid utility 6: Stream of Life
Hybrid encounter 7: Rain of Blood
Hybrid daily 9: Malediction of Rigidity

ITEMS
Healer's Chainmail +2, Healer's Brooch +2, Symbol of Turning +1, Alchemical Reagents (Arcana) (300), Sanctified Incense (Religion) (300), Mystic Salves (Heal) (300), Accurate staff of Ruin +2
RITUALS
Brew Potion, Create Holy Water, Corpse Light, Last Sight Vision, Gentle Repose, Undead Ward, Delay Affliction, Hand of Fate, Enchant Magic Item, Transfer Enchantment, Object Reading, Cure Disease, Deathly Shroud, Disenchant Magic Item, Speak with Dead, Iron Vigil, Comrades' Succor, Spirit Fetch, Familiar Mount, Inquisitive's Eyes, Raise Dead, Shadow Bridge, Remove Affliction
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Oh, and hybrid wizard, warlock, and swordmage are all popular, cause you lose so very little by hybriding.


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## Mengu (May 20, 2010)

I think Ranger|Cleric works exceptionally well.

Fighter|Ranger, Fighter|Rogue and Ranger|Rogue all work with interesting synergy. The fighter combos are pretty straight forward, focusing on the "striker" features of the fighter such as stance powers. The Ranger|Rogue gets lots of minor actions and interrupts to use both striker features.

I think the best place for hybrids is small groups. You basically get to cover a missing role in a party of 3, and get to play what you want also. Say your group has a controller and a striker, and you're the third man. You want to play a Fighter but are concerned about healing, so you play a Dwarf Fighter|Cleric pick fighter powers that take care of your own survival, and use the cleric healing to heal your allies, and you're set.

Having said that, another good place for hybrids is large groups. You are looking at joining a party as the sixth man, and see every role is covered. You want a swiss army knife character filling gaps where need, so you play a paladin|warlock, jumping in front when needed or striking from the back elsewhere.


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## Prestidigitalis (May 20, 2010)

Overall, I share your lack of enthusiasm, but...

I currently play a Barbarian in one of my campaigns, and have considered playing a vanilla Rogue the next time I need a character, leading me to wonder how a rapier-wielding Half-Orc Str/Dex Barbarian|Rogue would work.  

I haven't had time to experiment with it yet -- has anyone else tried it?


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## Mentat55 (May 20, 2010)

I think hybrid wizards can be very potent when paired with the right class.  Swordmage and tactical warlords are two good examples.  Why?  Because unlike most classes, most of the wizard's awesomeness is tied up in their powers (mainly the dailies), rather than class features.

Barbarian is another class, since a lot of its striker firepower is built into its at-will powers and it plays well with Str-based classes: runepriest, cleric, paladin, fighter, ranger, warden, and warlord could all work well.


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## davethegame (May 20, 2010)

In the game I'm running, there is a Swordmage/Artificer who can spend several actions pumping up and become very difficult to hit with nearly any attack, and a Warlock/Paladin who does a lot of catch 22-type stuff. They both seem pretty effective, but also just retrained into hybrid at paragon level, so might not have been as solid at lower levels.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 20, 2010)

Regardless of their "oomph", I can honestly say that 100% of the 4Ed PCs I've designed are Hybrids...more for reasons of modeling the PC concept than anything else.

They include:

A Minotaur Shaman-Warden (inspired by a combo of the Hurloon Minotaur and Native American legends of the White Buffalo)
A Warforged Battlemind-Infernal Pact Warlock who was created as a living gateway to Hell (inspired by a combo of Hellboy and the Hellraiser movies)
A Dragonborn Sorcerer-Warlord/Bard (multiclass) who is a 4Ed approximation of my 3.X "Mage-Brute" builds
A Wildren Seeker-Ranger/Warden (multiclass) who is proficient in ranged combat and 2WF
A Dragonborn Bard-Seeker who is one part Jimmy Buffet and one part Chief Sealth
A Githzerai Battlemind-Avenger/Monk (multiclass) who is a 4Ed translation of my polearm-wielding 3.X Monk/Psy-War/Kensai

and so forth.

Efficient?  Powerful?  Maybe not- but they_ feel _right.

And sometimes, "feel" is what you need- recently, I suggested to someone they try a Half Elf Seeker-Avenger:



Dannyalcatraz said:


> Kerrick of the Black Brotherhood
> 
> Half-Elf Hybrid Seeker/Avenger...he's a vampire hunter, but not the usual kind.
> 
> ...


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## wyrdone (May 21, 2010)

I've been playing a hybrid Shielding Swordmage/Wizard for a couple levels and he is fantastic.

Swordmage loses almost nothing as a hybrid, and his defender mechanic fires off as an immediate action... so I can spend my minor action marking a target, (or targets, I'm level 13 now), my standard action throwing some wizard controller spell, and then later in the round I can likely use my immediate action to reduce the damage an ally takes.  

It's a powerful combination of Defender/Controller, and both roles can be executed every round, versus most other hybrids choosing which role they'll use their standard action on.


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## interwyrm (May 21, 2010)

On the other hand, there are some hybrid classes that I think lose too much!

Runepriest - doesn't get rune of protection/destruction
Rogue - doesn't get a build option
Avenger - doesn't get its censure
Paladin - neutered mark
Assassin - not even a great class to start

I'm not familiar with all of the classes, but that's what I'd go with to start. I think all the hybrids should have gotten the build option for interaction with powers - in the same vein as warlocks.


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## mysticknight232 (May 21, 2010)

Just by looking at combinations of classes, my favorite build options (without actually trying them out yet) would be either a striker or defender paired with a controller.  Melee powers from one class and burst/blast powers from the controller.  I think this would provide enough versatility and make them potentially worth while.  

Again, I've never played one, only messed around with them in the CB and as already mentioned, some hybrid classes lose a lot while others don't lose all that much.


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## Felon (May 21, 2010)

I'm playing a hybrid barbarian/paladin. Since the hybrid barb only gets Ramage (which is hardly on par with Hunter's Quarry or Oath of Enmity), there's a real question as to why I didn't just stay straight paladin. Although classified as a striker, a two-hander barb doesn't hit significantly harder than a two-hander defender--Howling Strike notwithstanding, of course, which you'd have to be crazy not to take as your barb at-will. 

Compare Avalanche Strike with Heedless Fury, or Vault the Fallen with Arcing Smite. The barb versions seem to be a lot of minor tweaks of the pally version.

Still, it's a fun build, and that is what counts. I just wish that the paragon hybrid option offered a little more (like something that you can do with an AP).


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## MrMyth (May 21, 2010)

Felon said:


> I'm playing a hybrid barbarian/paladin. Since the hybrid barb only gets Ramage (which is hardly on par with Hunter's Quarry or Oath of Enmity), there's a real question as to why I didn't just stay straight paladin. Although classified as a striker, a two-hander barb doesn't hit significantly harder than a two-hander defender--Howling Strike notwithstanding, of course, which you'd have to be crazy not to take as your barb at-will.




Actually, I think that is worth keeping in mind - part of a barbarian's damage comes from their powers more than a standard striker damage boost. In many ways, that actually makes them extra good as a hybrid, rather than less!


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## jbear (May 21, 2010)

Runepriests lose very little from their hybridization. I initially thought the same as you but the Protective/Destructive Rune feature is triggered by the Rune keyword of the power. If you read the side bar about the Rune Keyword you see that the Runepriest does not need the Runemaster feature to add these effects to power. The Hybrid talent merely gives the extra bonus that a Runepriest gains when these features are used.

Basically Runepriests make AWESOME hybrids. And as for the OP's initial leaning towards Hybrid Fighter/Runepriest, pure awesome! Take a polearm, polearm flanker, hafted defense, and at paragon you become a total beast! Yeah, Polearm Gambit. With Wisdom as your secondary stat 15 WIS is not a problem. So you will probably want to take the Miss me at your own risk Runepriest Dmg Buff Option, which keys of Wisdom. So Str/WIS... either minotaur of Longtooth Shifter... both fully solid races. Plus you are a decent secondary leader with massive amounts of defensive/offensive options to boost your allies. 

One of the penalties of many hybrids AC defence. Not going to be the case here. You have total armour synergy, (yeah scale armour and no feats wasted!!!). And your marking is almost as potent as a normal fighters. Runepriest/Fighter is a solid choice.

I've seen several hybrids in play, and they were all top class.

I have two in my regular campaign. One is a Elf Ranger/Shaman Hybrid. The Archer Ranger, as far as strikers go, is so simple that with Quarry, Twin Strike and a Superior Bow all other features aren't too sorely missed. Especially considering everything gained from the Shaman. A spirit with spirit power as Hybrid Talent adds a melee OA and great battlefield control options. As far as AT Wills, Twin Strike is so good that it's hard to compete. But the Shaman gets several which gives attacks to allies. So even when the ranger gets locked down or is at a serious disadvantage, she gives her action to an ally. 

The other is a Longtooth Shifter Tempest Fighter/Ranger with shortswords. And Multiclassed into Avenger! She never misses with those things, incredibly accurate. The static damage is massive. And they gain access to some awesome powers from each class: Rain of Blows, Skirmishing Stance, Dervish's Challenge, Off hand strike etc. Used as basically a striker, but could probably pimped even more by a more tactical player who used the fighter mark regularly.

I've also seen a shielding swordmage/wizard. Really awesome second defender/controller.

Longtooth shifter Barbarian/Paladin was pretty solid heavily armoured resistent charge striker.

There are loads more combos out there that look solid on paper as well, say the rogue/assassin multiclassed into warlock for example. Not all combos work, but those that do are pretty nifty.


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## satori01 (May 22, 2010)

Avenger/Monk strikes me as a good combo.

Dex/Wis works well and the powers are pretty complementry.
With Hybrid Talent...AC will be on Par w/ Avenger
HP will be slightly lower than Avenger, but not by much
Defenses will be slightly lower than Monk/Avenger

DPS for Monk powers will be about the same with Hybrid Flurry, and the slide from Centered school meshes well with the controllery aspect of many Avenger powers.

DPS for Avenger powers will be slightly lower as you will not be getting the situational bonuses for Retribution or Pursuit, but as since those were never a particuliarly great aspect to begin with, not a great loss.

**The best thing I see from this Hybrid is that all weapons you are proficient with now become implements, which means the Avenger Weapon vs Implement issue is moot....take whatever Avenger power you want*.*..........which is a pretty strong benifit.

You also can pull some Jackie Chan style hygenics....an Elven Avenger/Monk Hybrid could use a Magic bow as an implement with Monk melee attacks (think Shanghai Noon and instead of a thin tree, an unstrung bow), and use the plus from the bow with a ranged Avenger Implement power.....pretty nifty.


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## Stalker0 (May 22, 2010)

I played a bard/dark pact warlock for a bit and that worked out well. I got some of the healing and buffing aspects of the bard, but my damage really got upgraded by the warlock's curse.


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## Tarrl (May 23, 2010)

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
HandSome BoB, level 11
Drow, Fighter|Ranger, Shock Trooper
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Fighter Combat Talent
Fighter Combat Talent: Tempest Technique
Darkfire: Darkfire Wisdom
Background: Silent Hunter (Silent Hunter Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 11, Dex 18, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 13.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10.

AC: 26 Fort: 25 Reflex: 22 Will: 20
HP: 74 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 18
TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +14, Dungeoneering +13, Perception +14, Acrobatics +14, Religion +9
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +6, Heal +8, History +4, Insight +8, Intimidate +8, Nature +8, Stealth +11, Streetwise +6, Thievery +8
FEATS
Level 1: Xen'drik Weapon Training
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 6: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 8: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 10: Deft Hurler Style
Level 11: Heavy Blade Opportunity
POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Cleave
Hybrid encounter 1: Two-Fanged Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Tempest Dance
Hybrid utility 2: Pass Forward
Hybrid encounter 3: Sweeping Blow
Hybrid daily 5: Two-Wolf Pounce
Hybrid utility 6: Eyes of the Deep Delver
Hybrid encounter 7: Claws of the Griffon
Hybrid daily 9: Attacks on the Run
Hybrid utility 10: Undaunted Stride
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Distance Drow Long Knife +1, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Elven Battle Hide Armor +2, Vengeful Drow Long Knife +2, Cloak of Survival +2, Potion of Vigor (heroic tier), Potion of Healing (heroic tier), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Drow Long Knife of Great Opportunity +2, Predator's Hide Earthhide Armor +3
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


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## chorolus (May 23, 2010)

*How about Ranger/Shaman?*

I agree with the previous post that Hybrid characters are much easier to  use to create a 'character concept' more fully then a vanilla  character. Hybrids are definitely more complicated, but in my opinion, are more rewarding in their character development as well.

One such Hybrid that I've been experimenting with, is a Human Beastmaster Ranger/Shaman, MC'd as Swordmage.

I won't go into all the nitty-gritty details...but she's got 3 pets acting as a mobile wall while she attacks at range, throwing Handaxes around using Twin Strike as often as she can in conjunction with the Reaving Axe feats. Nimble Strike is also a key Power for her, as with proper feat support gives her quite a bit of mobility letting her play Ring-Around-the-Rosies with her foes as she dances circles around her 'pet-wall'.

Ranger works nicely with a healing-type support class too as she can dish out respectable, though sub-stiker damage-per-round but still fulfill a nicely rounded-out support role.


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## Prestidigitalis (May 24, 2010)

MrMyth said:


> Actually, I think that is worth keeping in mind - part of a barbarian's damage comes from their powers more than a standard striker damage boost. In many ways, that actually makes them extra good as a hybrid, rather than less!




Which is why I have previously suggested a Thaneborne Barbarian | Inspiring Warlord build.  Which features you take is of course up to you, but the focus is Str+Cha.  Awesome for when you have to take the fight to the enemy yourself -- Howling Strike is Strength-only and frankly is virtually the only at-will that my pure Barbarian ever uses.  AC and Reflex will be weak, but as an Inspiring Warlord you can always use some of your healing on yourself to make up for it.

I will be interested to hear the results from anyone who gives it a try.


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## interwyrm (May 24, 2010)

satori01 said:


> Avenger/Monk strikes me as a good combo.




Fully agree on this one. Might even be better in some ways than either base class.

The avenger striker bonus and the monk striker bonus have exclusive conditions - avenger needs you to have only one target next to you, and monk needs you to have more than one target next to you. 

Depending on how you go about hybrid talents, you can get abusive AC. +3 from armor of faith, +2 from IAoF at paragon, +2 from monk unarmored defense, +2 from unarmored agility, +1 from staff fighting (which is not a bad choice if you take the melee bracers and a staff of the serpent.)

The avenger/monk might even be worth going with paragon hybrid, although in that case I'd probably pick censure of unity instead of monk unarmored defense, since the AC is overkill, and the boost to avenger damage when it's down to Party vs. Solo at the end of a fight.


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## Pyrex (May 25, 2010)

I haven't had a chance to do a full build, but Monk/Seeker looks promising.  They both need Wis/Dex, and adding in Seeker adds ranged damage/control to the melee powerhouse...


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## Felon (May 25, 2010)

MrMyth said:


> Actually, I think that is worth keeping in mind - part of a barbarian's damage comes from their powers more than a standard striker damage boost. In many ways, that actually makes them extra good as a hybrid, rather than less!



Well, Howling Strike confers a hefty damage boost, if that's what you mean. It has the odd effect of outdamaging encounter powers. Most encounter attacks do little more than standard 2[W] damage unless you have a corresponding Feral Might boost (usually, Rageblood Vigor is the go-to for extra damage).  

And without Rage Strike, the dailies aren't big smackdowns either.


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## sev (May 25, 2010)

Pyrex said:


> I haven't had a chance to do a full build, but Monk/Seeker looks promising.  They both need Wis/Dex, and adding in Seeker adds ranged damage/control to the melee powerhouse...




One of my players ran one of these for me a few weeks ago, and *wow* was it fun.  So very, very mobile.  Lots of dashing about, doing large amounts of damage, and denying the monsters any opportunity to retaliate (granted, this particular encounter was light on foes with ranged attacks).

Lately I've been toying with the idea of a character built to lead arcane armies.  Which would probably work just as well with an army of rangers, but that's not quite the dramatic color I had in mind.  One of 'em is a Sorcerer/Warlord, who leads from the front and the other is a Wizard/Warlord, who's better designed for leading from within the pack.  I have no idea if they're playable, but they were fun to make.

The final concept character that keeps creeping into my dreams is a Bard/Wizard/MC-Warlock.  "I'm not a thief!  I'm a *criminal mastermind*."   Like the warleaders in the previous paragraph, this is somebody built for support.  In this case, support of a pack of thieves.  Good for things like covering a rout, er, retreat.


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## Prestidigitalis (May 25, 2010)

Felon said:


> Most encounter attacks do little more than standard 2[W] damage unless you have a corresponding Feral Might boost (usually, Rageblood Vigor is the go-to for extra damage).




A few of them are pretty special.  I like Great Cleave, Vault the Fallen and Curtain of Steel at low levels, and none of them gives my Rageblood any kickers.



Felon said:


> And without Rage Strike, the dailies aren't big smackdowns either.




My level 12 Barbarian has never used Rage Strike yet.  The bonuses from Raging -- both specific to the power itself and to the at-will or encounter that follows it -- can be enormous.  Also, a number of Rage powers are close bursts, which have a decent chance of creating a crit and thereby triggering an MBA; add in that MBA damage and suddenly you can get into some pretty big numbers.

Having said that, I will agree that a lot of Barbarian advantages accrue only to a pure Barbarian.  It would take some work to bring a hybrid to the same level of wow.  It might be one of those cases where the best "mix" would be done with Paragon Multiclassing instead.


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