# Can a person whistle with no tongue?



## AuroraGyps

*Can a person whistle with no tounge?*

I came up with another idea for a PC... when I finally get into a game, I won't be strapped for ideas.  Anyway, my idea is for the PC to have no tounge and be mute.  Not sure about class, although Rogue is up there as a choice.  So, how does this person communicate?  I was thinking of whistling substituting for certain words (yes, no, stop, danger, etc).  I'm thinking a combo of Snake Eyes from GIJoe with a bit of Harpo Marx (just the whistling, not the humor) mixed in.  But, can a person with no tounge whistle?  Can they have enough range to have distinct whistles for different situations?  I suppose fingers could be used to assist, but I can't whistle like that, so I have no idea what range you can get with that method either.  
This PC would also be fluent in sign language, regular or something like the kind used by the military.  This sets up a good situation for the mute PC to have a partner that can understand what's being said.


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## mmu1

I don't think you can really do much as far as whistling goes without a tongue - at least not if you want variety...

What's the key idea behind the character - that he's mute, or that he specifically has no tongue?

If the former, then you can always say he survived a blow (or a hanging, or a garroting attempt) that destroyed his larynx, and he can keep his tongue... It'll make other things easier besides whistling - like eating.


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## AuroraGyps

mmu1 said:
			
		

> What's the key idea behind the character - that he's mute, or that he specifically has no tongue?
> 
> If the former, then you can always say he survived a blow (or a hanging, or a garroting attempt) that destroyed his larynx, and he can keep his tongue... It'll make other things easier besides whistling - like eating.




I was thinking escaped slave, perhaps from a temple, or the victim of a vicious attack.  Also, it wouldn't be a guy, I play females since that's what I am.  Perhaps, she was the victim of a violent rape?


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## astralpwka

How about some type of mouth piece, like certain animal calls? You could say your character carved it, and thus rationalize a wider range of notes.


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## Neil Aitken

If she has no tongue, she could have fashioned a prosthetic tongue or as suggested some other type of mouth piece.  Which might even lend itself to some interesting names --  if she had high CHA she could call herself "<insert name here> the Silver-Tongued"

Other means of communication -- sign language, rhythmic slapping or beating, "beat-boxing" (ie. thumping chest, arms, and belly for noises), perhaps a familiar with vocal abilities (ie. using your telepathic link with a parrot), or maybe simple percussion (triangle, sticks, etc).


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## Sejs

How about her lack of voice isn't from having her tongue removed - it's from an injury to the throat she recieved.  Had her throat slit.  Magical healing kept her alive (with awsome throat scar optional), but the attack mangled her voice box / cut her vocal chords such that it would take a regenerate spell to make them work again, and nothing like that was even remotely available at the time.

Bam, can't speak, but can whistle.  Plus, again, badass throat scar. 

^_^


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## jerichothebard

I think you would be able to whistle, but only one note - the pitch is controled by the size of the chamber your mouth creates, and the tounge is used to modulate that size.


That said, I think it would make an interesting bard character...

jtb


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## Snoweel

AuroraGyps said:
			
		

> Can a person whistle with no tounge?




 

This is why I love ENWorld.


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## Malachi_rc

*It can be done*

You can whistel without a toungue, though I still say you should go just mute.  

And while the size of your mouth does determine the pitch (and therefore a toungue helps change it) you can get quite a variety by moving your jaw in differrent ways.  HOwever, you get far more variety with a toungue.


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## AuroraGyps

Mostly she'd use some sort of sign language, but sometimes "verbal" communication is necessary, like when people aren't within line of sight.  

I got the idea of having her toungue removed from the Theives World books where one of the churches had it done to the slaves.  Having one's larynx damaged or slit throat and surviving are nasty things, but having your tongue removed is horrific.


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## drunkmoogle

The most memorable NPC I've ever run was a stuck-up mute female half-elf wizard. Her raven did her talking for her, and she prepared all her spells Silenced. Only then is a 7th level wizard balanced for a group of 3rd level PCs .

When it wasn't convenient for her to have her familiar, she just tapped her quarterstaff around. She would'nt bring herself to the level of playing charades, and it really pissed off the PCs.



			
				auroragyps said:
			
		

> although Rogue is up there as a choice...



If you want to use my idea, go Arcane Trickster. And see if your GM would allow you to make Silent Spell not adjust the SL of a spell because of your handicap (you're already taking a feat for it).


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## kleinetommy

And if you also put your hands in front of your mouth? Should give you a bit more variety with notes.


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## Elrik_DarkFury

You finally found a nice bunch of people to play with?  (I had read the thread with your problem)-good for you!(That also happened to me last week).I would prefer the damaged throat story but thats up to u.Whatever u choose happy role-playing  


______________
The Wizard


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## Hand of Evil

Yes, it has more to do with the mouth than the tongue.  You can also use object like a blade of grass held lenght wise between your thumbs, or your hands and fingers.  It just takes time and effort to master.


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## JoeBlank

I am currently playing a mute ex-slave myself. Being wise like AuroraGyps, I too asked ENW for advice. A link to the thread is here:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73977

And here is the storyhour for the campaign:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76667

Basically, I ended up relying on sign language (on which I spent skill points, and his "friend" in the game did too), simple gestures, and a signal whistle to take the place of shouting from a distance. Haven't had to use the whistle yet, as the group has stuck together for the most part.

I'm having a good time with it, hope you do too.


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## Piratecat

The title of this thread made me wonder: can a person smell with no nose?

It sounds like a fun character concept.


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## BrooklynKnight

That depends on where exactly IN the nose the nerve endings that recognize smell are...

When you have a clogged nose, you cant smell anything, which leads me to belive that the nerve endings which recognize smell are deeper in the nasal cavity. If they are far back enough that they are in your skull, and not in the cartilage that makes the nose, then yes, you could smell without a nose.


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## Michael Tree

Piratecat said:
			
		

> The title of this thread made me wonder: can a person smell with no nose?



That depends.  How often does he shower?


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## Piratecat

Good. Someone got the joke.  I hadn't expected any serious answers!


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## AuroraGyps

Elrik_DarkFury said:
			
		

> You finally found a nice bunch of people to play with?  (I had read the thread with your problem)-good for you!(That also happened to me last week).I would prefer the damaged throat story but thats up to u.Whatever u choose happy role-playing




I don't have a new group yet, but I'm working on it.  There were a couple of people in that group who seemed more simpathetic and I'm planning to send them an e-mail to see if they still like to hang out.  It wasn't a pleasant learning experience, but I'm taking the lesson to heart.  Thanks for the words of encouragement... posting about what happened on ENWorld helped alot. 

I still keep coming up with PC ideas though.  Probably because of all the reading I do.  I'll be very ready when I find a new group.


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## mmu1

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> That depends on where exactly IN the nose the nerve endings that recognize smell are...
> 
> When you have a clogged nose, you cant smell anything, which leads me to belive that the nerve endings which recognize smell are deeper in the nasal cavity. If they are far back enough that they are in your skull, and not in the cartilage that makes the nose, then yes, you could smell without a nose.




The nerve endings in question are actually technically extensions of the brain that dangle into the nasal cavity through the sieve-like sphenoid bone located at (roughly) the same level as the bridge of your nose, and well away from the cartilage that protrudes from the face. Which is probably one of the reasons for the often-repeated myth that it's possible to kill someone by pushing his nasal bones up into his brain...


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## mmu1

Piratecat said:
			
		

> Good. Someone got the joke.  I hadn't expected any serious answers!




You have your fun, I'll have mine, ok?


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## d20Dwarf

My first 3e character was a mute rogue/monk with scars and a curse that made him look like a harlequin. Just thought I"d share...


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## LightPhoenix

One thing I'd caution about a mute character is that it can get really annoying, really fast, especially in trying to communicate with other players.  Especially from the other players' point of view.  It can definitely work, but I think if I were thinking about playing a character who was mute, I would ask the other players what they thought of it ahead of time.

Also, from a DM perspective, I'd allow you to talk aloud to the other players if everyone picked up a rank in Speak Language (Sign).  Though "Speak" isn't quite the right word...


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## DonaldRumsfeldsTofu

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> One thing I'd caution about a mute character is that it can get really annoying, really fast




I'll second that. My friend thought having a mute character was cool for like two weeks. Then he got really frustrated not being able to talk to anyone and made all of the other characters learn his sign language.



> That depends. How often does he shower?




Hitler: My dog has no nose!
Nazi partisans: How does he smell?
Hitler: Awful.


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## AuroraGyps

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> One thing I'd caution about a mute character is that it can get really annoying, really fast, especially in trying to communicate with other players.  Especially from the other players' point of view.  It can definitely work, but I think if I were thinking about playing a character who was mute, I would ask the other players what they thought of it ahead of time.
> 
> Also, from a DM perspective, I'd allow you to talk aloud to the other players if everyone picked up a rank in Speak Language (Sign).  Though "Speak" isn't quite the right word...




That's why I wanted to know about the whistling.  That way, I'd at least have a list of single words I could say as a player that would translate into a whistle for the PC.  It'd be annoying to have to keep saying, "My character whistles yes... I whistle stop... I whistle.....".  I could just say "yes', "no", etc.  I'd also have simple hand gestures that everyone would be able to understand.
I think of this as an exercise in roleplaying.


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## Tonguez

If I was your DM I'd just say yeah you can whistle (perhaps there is enough of a stump left to modulate the sound) and go with the 'one word' conversation thing
- ie if you think its fun then do it

*As to smell* - I've got an Aunt who has no sense of smell (she lost it after some infection or something) and it is a legitimate disability. Smell is more important than most people assume, she can't detect leaking gas, 'off' food and a variety of over things.


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## Plane Sailing

This might be interesting:

http://www.lgib.gov.uk/news/story.html?newsId=1123



> Residents on the Canary Island of La Gomera will soon be whistling while they work after the local council revived *Silbo Gomero*, a language that’s whistled rather than spoken. Children in the island’s elementary schools are being taught the Silbo technique in an effort to keep the ancient language alive.
> 
> Believed to originate from early African settlers 2,500 years ago, the language features four ‘vowels’ and four ‘consonants’ which are strung together to form more than 4,000 words. When ‘spoken’, the language sounds, appropriately for the Canary Islands, like birdsong.
> 
> For centuries, Silbo was used by the local people to communicate across La Gomera’s mountainous terrain, but the arrival of the telephone meant the island’s 19,000 inhabitants no longer need to use it. However, Juan Cabello, a recognised ‘silbador’ (pictured) still finds it has its uses. “I use it to call to my wife, to tell my kids something, to find a friend if we get lost in a crowd,” he told CNN.
> 
> Its few remaining practitioners also provide popular demonstrations for the island’s growing number of tourists, something which the local council wants to encourage as well as retaining the island’s cultural heritage.





Cheers


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## diaglo

Piratecat said:
			
		

> The title of this thread made me wonder: can a person smell with no nose?





are their taste buds still active?

as for the thread title. think about a reed. get a slender piece of grass or similar object to create the reed if you don't have a tongue.


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## Djeta Thernadier

Whistle? Not well , probably , but you should be able to mumble incoherantly. Maybe you could come up with a series of mumbles, grunts etc. that would be her language.

I like the idea of her having an animal too, like the raven. Maybe she could have a parrot. Of course, if you wanted to get scientific, mimicing birds only do just that - they mimic. They do not fully comprehend what they are saying - that could get her into trouble, and you'd obviously not have been the one who taught the bird to speak. But if she were a spellcaster and it were a familiar, maybe that would be different.

I think you're going to find that her most easy way to communicate is through sign language, gestures etc.

Cool character concept.


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## Raging Epistaxis

Djeta Thernadier said:
			
		

> Of course, if you wanted to get scientific, mimicing birds only do just that - they mimic. They do not fully comprehend what they are saying -... But if she were a spellcaster and it were a familiar, maybe that would be different.




<thread hijack>
I agree that even the most gifted communicators amongst animals have a fairly limited grasp of what they are hearing and saying, but the ability of some animals to spontaneously construct context appropriate communications gives some pause to dismissing the potential for communication (and intelligence) as purely mimicing.

While the vast majority of animals do not show much ability towards the comprehension of human languages (including sign language) there is growing evidence to the contrary, at least as potential. 

Perhaps the two most famous examples of animals who are able to communicate on a basic verbal (or signed) level are Alex the African Grey and Koko the Gorilla. 

Even dismissing them as the exception, there are thousands of parrots, dogs and even cats who have been witnessed or documented showing a suprising ability to problem-solve and communicate, if in non-verbal and somatic ways.

Personally and professionally, I think it's not so much that animals are limited in communication with humans by any lack of intelligence, as they are by the lack of any common language with us.  I think it would be alternately fascinating and horrifying if we suddenly developed a method of universal communication with the animals we come in contact with daily.  But I digress.

</Thread Hijack - with apologies if anyone is offended>

So, what does this have to do with the ability of a tongue amputee to whistle?  Very little.  My thoughts are that it would be exceedingly difficult to whistle if you had no tongue at all, but who says that the whole thing got cut off?  A sufficient base would allow for some frequency and pulse modulation.

I think the simple answer if you go the animal helper route is a familiar or awakened animal - then there is no problem with the helper communicating with the PC, only potentially the other players.

But since we are talking about a fantasy game, why an animal helper? there are plenty of other creatures/monsters who are small but humanoid enough to speak - how about a diminutive imp? or pixie/fairy type creature?  I'm sure there are plenty more to choose from.

R E, DVM


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