# Dealing with Spike Growth



## elbandit (Sep 14, 2004)

Howdy!

The Ranger player in my campaign has become overly fond of using the spell of Spike Growth. His prime tactic is to attempt to get people to chase him and then cast it.

What would be a good counter tactic to the spike growth spell in general? I have had spellcasters counterspell his casting of it, but the spell itself is impossible to detect once it has been cast. 

Have other GMs encountered an anbundance of this spell being used?


----------



## Rel (Sep 14, 2004)

I saw it get used a fair bit by the Druid in my last campaign.  I tended to play it based on the intelligence and motivations of the foe involved.  I had one giant that was chasing him who wanted the Druid dead very badly, so he simply charged through it and ate the damage.

More frequently I had foes who simply stopped as soon as they started taking damage and focused their attention on other party members.  If the Ranger in question uses a bow a lot, foes should simply stop chasing him after they start taking damage and respond with their own ranged attacks or take cover.

Also, at the levels you're talking about, the party will probably start to encounter more and more flying foes (or NPC's with a potion of Fly in their pocket).  That'll get around it quite effectively.

But sometimes (and, in my opinion, most importantly), the bad guys will not have any good way to circumvent this tactic and it will simply work the way the player wants it to.  There's nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Pielorinho (Sep 14, 2004)

I've not seen it be a real problem.  Here's some things to consider:
1) It's undetectable to allies as well as enemies.  You may want to consider not drawing it on the battle map (if you use one), but instead sketching it out on paper, and not letting the other players see where it is, and not letting the ranger player point out to them where it is.  
2) It doesn't do a huge amount of damage.
3) Creatures can avoid the vast majority of the damage simply by not running around through it.
4) It doesn't affect creatures that can fly.

Given these things, even though I've played in two games (well, DMed one) with high-level druids, the spell never saw much use at all.

Daniel


----------



## kenobi65 (Sep 14, 2004)

I've had 2 druids in the various campaigns I've run.  Our experiences have convinced me that the druidic "minefield" spells (Entangle, Spike Growth, Stone Spikes) are, IMO, broken.  And, amazingly, they didn't get fixed in 3.5.   

So, short of banning the spells, what to do?

- Bad guys with missile weapons.
- Bad guys who can fly.
- Encounters that don't lend themselves to use of these spells (i.e., underground, worked stone, etc.)
- Bad guys with DR that'll let them walk through the spikes with impunity.

Don't have the bad guys be able to ignore the minefields every time, but often enough that your player doesn't feel he can always rely on them to work.  That gets boring for everyone.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 15, 2004)

I saw a ranger that would cast it behind his foes to prevent them from running away so have the foe do that!


----------



## hong (Sep 15, 2004)

Dispel magic will get rid of it.
Fireball should burn away the vegetation.


----------



## shilsen (Sep 15, 2004)

hong said:
			
		

> Fireball should burn away the vegetation.




House rule?


----------



## hong (Sep 15, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> House rule?



 It's fire, mang.


----------



## diaglo (Sep 15, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> House rule?




fireball does damage to all things in the area of effect...   half damage with save.


----------



## Buttercup (Sep 15, 2004)

hong said:
			
		

> Fireball should burn away the vegetation.



And if you place it right, the ranger as well.


----------



## Darklone (Sep 15, 2004)

One of my chars once climbed up the walls ... spidey, mang.


----------



## Mystery Man (Sep 15, 2004)

I don't know if I'm stating the obvious since no one's brought it up but, the environment has to be "ground covered vegitation" to even work. 

Down in the dungeon, on a cobblestone street, on the side of a mountain, underwater, on a boat, in the air, in a bubble bath, elemental plane of _____, etc. Not gonna happen. So stop being overly fond of making your encounters in the forest.


----------



## Tuzenbach (Sep 15, 2004)

Don't let the bad guys get fooled into chasing the Ranger. In fact, have some bad guys fool the Ranger into chasing them and then use the spike trick against the Ranger!


----------



## elbandit (Sep 16, 2004)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> I don't know if I'm stating the obvious since no one's brought it up but, the environment has to be "ground covered vegitation" to even work.




Actually the spell reads in works in any outside environment; Bare ground can be used as easily as vegatation covered areas. It doesn't work on bare stone.

There were lots of godo ideas here, thanks guys and gals!

-Sean


----------



## Piratecat (Sep 16, 2004)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Down in the dungeon, on a cobblestone street, on the side of a mountain, underwater, on a boat, in the air, in a bubble bath...




Yeah, but my bathomancer is totally unbalancing the game with the spell _Bubble Growth._ Frankly, I'm halfway to my wit's end.


----------



## Mystery Man (Sep 16, 2004)

elbandit said:
			
		

> Actually the spell reads in works in any outside environment; Bare ground can be used as easily as vegatation covered areas......
> -Sean



BUT!.... "Typically, Spike Growth can be cast in any _*outdoor*_ setting _*except*_ open water, ice, heavy snow, sandy desert, or bare stone"


----------



## Mystery Man (Sep 16, 2004)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> Yeah, but my bathomancer is totally unbalancing the game with the spell _Bubble Growth._ Frankly, I'm halfway to my wit's end.



What a broken class!


----------



## diaglo (Sep 16, 2004)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> What a broken class!




someone needs to burst his...oh nevermind.


it reminds me of those bubble spells in the FR material that Elminster likes to use.


----------



## Zaruthustran (Sep 17, 2004)

Jumping works. Any critter can jump; lots of critters can jump far. 

-z


----------

