# Discussion for a Kingdom of ashes OOC II



## The_Universe (Feb 29, 2004)

Hey gang. Started this thread so we wouldn't flood the old inboxes. Hope it helps!

--Kennon


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## AIM-54 (Mar 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Hey gang. Started this thread so we wouldn't flood the old inboxes. Hope it helps!
> 
> --Kennon




I'm willing to give it a shot...but the ego boost of having 8000 emails...I dunno if I can give that crack up, man...

Jeremiah


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## The_Universe (Mar 1, 2004)

Very good!  We have 2 of the necessary 8 people here on the boards!  Huzzah!


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## Xath (Mar 1, 2004)

*Here I am.*

Make that 3 of 8.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 1, 2004)

*Here I be*

Hey y'all!

Justice here... 

Yep...

That's all.


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## The_Universe (Mar 1, 2004)

awesome!  We're up to half of the necessary personages!  YAY!

On another subject, Kat--when you get here, check out the story hour section of the messageboards.  It might give you some inspiration for L'Aurel's journal.  

As for Gertie and Jeremiah, welcome to the boards!

What did everyone think of our solution?  Confused?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!


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## GBear (Mar 1, 2004)

Im in.  I would also just like to state that while the solution is a very good one (though I am slightly confused as to if Archonus Bluestar is from our universe, or from an alternate one), if the universe needed to kill off Arfin, im cool with it, though I am happy he is still around.

-Greg


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## The_Universe (Mar 1, 2004)

GBear said:
			
		

> I would also just like to state that while the solution is a very good one (though I am slightly confused as to if Archonus Bluestar is from our universe, or from an alternate one), if the universe needed to kill off Arfin, im cool with it, though I am happy he is still around.



Well, as long we're all under the understanding that "The Universe" was being merciful, we can now understand that we are out of "redo's" and from now on, consequences (even death) will occur as the dice fall.  

Nonetheless, I try not to go out of my way to kill any of you, I just try to play your enemies (and the sentient magical items) of the game world accurately.  So, I don't NEED Arfin to die, but I want you to know that that was his last "Get soul out of extraplanar eternal prison free" card.

To try to answer your question, Arfin has NO IDEA where this dark Archonus, who we will refer to Archonus Bluestar from this point forward, has come from.  

Greg can know (even though Arfin does not) that it was a result of a much better worded rewish on Mik's part...but one that still carried a price.  In a bizarre way, Archonus Bluestar is the "real" Archon, and you all are twisted shadows of reality.  In short, from this point forward, you guys ARE in an alternate universe...but one that only Archonus Bluestar really knows about, since he's the one who created it.  

Weird, eh?


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## Xath (Mar 2, 2004)

*Need more postings...*

I'f I'm not going to get the self esteem boom of seeing 11 new emails in my inbox every time I check, we at least need one post a day.

So....I'm posting.  Are we still aiming to play Saturday?  We should also try to think about how to get everyone out of the city safely as there will be congestion at the gates from everyone trying to get out at once.  All this aside from the obvious shock we're all going through from what we just saw... 

Start with the posts!!


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## The_Universe (Mar 2, 2004)

I'm up for playing.  Saturday is probably good, as per normal.  

Good luck with the planning--one of the core questions you need to ask yourselves is if, when you get the people out (if you get the people out), are you going with them, or are you staying here to oppose the unholy reptilian legions?  I ask because it helps with the Universe's planning time to know...


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## The_Universe (Mar 2, 2004)

As a side note, I don't have any problem with my inbox getting too full.  Feel free to send me questions as you have been.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 2, 2004)

Getting people out of the city is not going to be easy... however, it is, at this point, going to be a task of speed and lung-power.

We need to quickly and loudly direct people as to where to go and how to get there in an orderly fashion... 
I realize that this is totally unlikely... but-- it needs to be the end goal...

Those are my current thoughts... I'll be back with more.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 2, 2004)

Also... I just want everyone to know that I love Sam Waterston... and his eyebrows.


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## AIM-54 (Mar 2, 2004)

*Strategery...*

I think we need to go through this very carefully to assemble a plan of action, picking out options and goals and then let the chips fall where they may.  As a resident expert on all things military (unless someone cares to challenge me, which might be very good in terms of coming up with the best plans etc), here is my take:

Our first goal, being the moral crusaders that we are is naturally to get as many people out as safely as possible.  This is our starting point and our end goal.  

Second, how?  We have two options, so far as I can see, run through the town rallying the people to leave as quickly as possible, staying in the city helping to get as many people out as fast as we can and then leaving with them when it gets too dangerous.  The second option is to rally what soldiers we can to fight delaying actions (this is not a distraction), helping those people we can, but mainly trying to buy time for them to escape.  Because of the urban territory, this works to our advantage, especially if we can assemble other teams of city guard or soldiers etc to do the same thing.  The key is to get small teams, probably around ten to disrupt enemy operations as much as possible.  Archers and ranged weaponry are key for this, as they allow for firing from elevated positions or distance, keeping the enemy at distance hopefully until they're either whittled down enough that the melee fighters can finish them off or an escape can be arranged or some other option (traps etc).  With numerous teams throughout the city engaged in this, we give the innocents the best shot at escape (where to is another matter).  This is the best option in my opinion.

This leads to the next option, do we fight as long as possible and then escape with the rest to leave Oceanus to its fate?  Or with the surviving defenders do we go underground and commence a guerrilla war against the undead horde, run either from inside the city (from the sewers etc) or from some nearby sanctuary (probably needs to be mobile to prevent discovery and destruction).  If we select the first option, it will probably still require a fighting retreat and I have no idea where we'd be headed.  At this point it is the most uncertain choice.  The second option allows us to continue inflicting damage on the enemy, distracting them from their ultimate goal (whatever that is), perhaps delay them further giving the civilians more time to escape (though the enemies numbers may preclude that to some extent).  If nothing else, we can work on whittling them down a bit, and giving other inhabitants of the island/continent we're on a better chance against those forces we can't tie down.

In the final analysis, we can't win this one right out.  This may not be the only invasion force either.  We must look at our capabilities, what we can hope to achieve and what our goals are.  Given that we have two rangers and we all bring valuable skills in either combat, deception, stealth or all three, I'd say we're all set should we choose the guerrilla option.  But we must understand that realistically, we will not be able to save everyone, nor will we be able to defeat this force on our own in a stand up fight, even with whatever forces we can muster from within the city.  Indeed, one of the goals of a guerrilla campaign would certainly be to send word with the evacuees to send any available forces to help out with our battle (I'm assuming they are heading somewhere with some sort of military force that can be useful to us).

Okay, I got a little excited, but I think this is a good starting point.

Jeremiah


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## The_Universe (Mar 2, 2004)

*Dear God...is that...a plan...!?*

*clap clap clap*


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## The_Universe (Mar 2, 2004)

Okay, based on what Jeremiah has said, does anybody have any questions for me?  

Does anybody have any OTHER questions for me...?

I MISS THE FLOOD OF QUESTIONS!  

Also, any word on whether we'll have Kat and Greg this weekend?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 2, 2004)

Jeremiah is correct.  Our goal cannot be to save everyone (as much as Justice would like to)...

So, we must spread the message as quickly as possible, fighting what we can along the way.
I think that part of this option is to rally as many people with the skillz (that's right, with a z) to fight off the demon masses and allow those that cannot fight to make their way to safety.

But, there does come a certain point when we will have to turn and run... and that is, I think, the most pressing issue:
At what point is it just (and merciful) to run??


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 2, 2004)

Hey guys-- hoping that you read this soon... but, Jeremiah, I just got the "Hi" virus from you and several email worms from Kennon... so... Everyone be on the lookout when opening email!


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## AIM-54 (Mar 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> But, there does come a certain point when we will have to turn and run... and that is, I think, the most pressing issue:
> At what point is it just (and merciful) to run??





Before we can decide that, we have to make a decision on whether we're going to go with the people fleeing the city, wherever that may be or whether we're planning to conduct some sort of resistance from the vicinity, or from the sewers of the city.
Kennon, what is the terrain like around the city?  Is there some sort of significan forest or some such from which such a resistance could be run or are we going to have to wait and find someone to talk to about this?  That kind of becomes a key issue in our decision making.
As I've envisioned it thus far, we fight as long as possible only leaving the city once it's clearly under the control of the horde or we can no longer hold our final sector.  At that point we take off for the forest or after the fleeing civilians, for which we will likely serve as some sort of rear guard as I have a feeling with the enemy's numbers they won't have to worry too much about sending a significant pursuit force after us.  If we're going with the civvies, we can probably hold a little bit longer before needing to retreat.  If we're headed to the forest, we may want to withdraw somewhat sooner so as to give us a better chance to elude pursuit and consolidate in our first of what would be many hideouts.  Depending on what kind of resistance force we pick up, we may also want to consider simply splitting off into different independently operating cells to aid evasion.  We could, of course, coordinate on some operations etc.

So, I think I've outlined the options as I see them pretty well.  More feedback would be good so we can come up with an idea of which way we want to go on this, as I'm sure Kennon would like to have a clue of where we're going as the implications for either option are not insignificant.

  Jeremiah aka Sun Tzu


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 3, 2004)

I think that we need to follow the citizens for a short while... but, we do have to remember that we have a schedule and people that we need to meet up with in the  near future...

So, we need to figure out where we're going to tell these people to go, get them there, and get out of there as quickly as possible...

Also, I'm now getting virus-filled emails from Greg's account... as is Kennon. 
So, run your virus scans everyone!


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## AIM-54 (Mar 3, 2004)

Something tells me that Tain and his entourage are the least of our problems right now.  I have a feeling that getting off this island/continent is also going to be extremely difficult.  There's also a good chance that this is not the only invasion force.  But I'm just speculating here.  I'm also saying we can't get too caught up in things said under very different circumstances.  We have limited resources, can apply limited force and limited mobility over great distances.  We need to choose which fights we want to fight and which give us the best probability for success.  At this point I would also argue that this invasion force is the greatest evil and that if we have to band with Tain and his like to defeat it, so be it.  I think the face of the world as we know it has changed and we have to adapt to it.  We have the opportunity to tie down some of this invasion force at Oceanus, giving the rest of the island/continent (I'm still not sure/can't remember its size etc) the chance to regroup, weather any forthcoming attack and counterattack.  I just think that's something we can't ignore.


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## The_Universe (Mar 3, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Kennon, what is the terrain like around the city? Is there some sort of significan forest or some such from which such a resistance could be run or are we going to have to wait and find someone to talk to about this? That kind of becomes a key issue in our decision making.



The city of Oceanus (notice the spelling) is built upon a cliffs edge in the southeastern corner of Prydein. The cliffs stretch for about 50 miles to either side fo the docks, before the elevation generally lowers. 

Directly north of the city, approximately 1 days ride at an average pace is the village of Hyrwl, the birthplace of the Woodshadow, standing at the southernmost tip of the Alder's Forest. The Alder's forest is lightly populated, but may be too far away for your purposes.

2-3 days West-Northwest of the city is the area known as the Southern Hills. Beneath the hills lies an Ancient Dwarven Clanhold. Khaz Modan is one of the oldest holdings of the dwarves, and it may be that you will find some aid there. On the hills (rather than under them) You'll find a rough mixture of lands settled by humans and elves and untamed bogs ruled by Trolls and Black Orcs. 

Crisoth, another major port, is about 9 days northwest of the city. It's on the northeastern coast of the island, and may be able to send some aid. It's the closest city with a noticeable military presence. 

Avalach is directly west of Oceanus, and because of a major road connecting Avalach and Oceanus, you can make the trip in around 2 weeks. There are villages and roadside inns along the way, but nothing capable of supporting a large number of refugees until you get to the western edge of the Goblin Mountains, to Avalach.

There are, of course, small villages in the surrounding areas, but little able to hide you beyond the options above.

Those are probably the closest possible sanctuaries over land. The other option is to try to harry the enemy (if that's what you choose to do) across the sea. Unfortunately, the only place where you could hope to hide effectively from the reptilian hordes is Mordred's Isle (Now also known as the Isle of Mourning) a few hours by ship south of Oceanus. It's canyons and rivers are at best partially explored, in no small part because mapping expeditions rarely return to tell their tales.

All of the times above assume you've got a large amount of people on foot with you. If it's refugees, it assumes that you're pushing them pretty hard, and if it's an army, you're marching at a good clip. If, however, you're in a small group with fast mounts, and you have spare horses to switch to when your primary mounts start to get tired, you could divide the above times by 3. That, of course, assumes that you're running your horse the entire distance, stopping to switch animals when the first is at the point of collapse.


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## The_Universe (Mar 3, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> So, I think I've outlined the options as I see them pretty well. More feedback would be good so we can come up with an idea of which way we want to go on this, as I'm sure Kennon would like to have a clue of where we're going as the implications for either option are not insignificant.



Yes--please let me know before we start playing.  If there's going to be some major, prolonged urban warfare, then I definitely need to have some time to prepare.  

If you're leaving the city, I need some time to prepare that, too.  If so, where are you going?  These are good questions for you to answer not just for the sake of your characters, but for me, as well.


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## Edriss the Black (Mar 3, 2004)

Those two posts were not from Laurel, but me Edriss the Black, sorry for any confusion, and she is to not be blamed.  The writers of those posts have been sacked.

that is all


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## Henry (Mar 3, 2004)

Hi, all! This is Henry, one of the mods.

We certainly don't mind you using the thread for discussion of your game, but two things I need to note:

1) We have a forum for OOC discussion of people's games, called Talking the Talk. I'll go ahead and slide this over there.

2) Posts about "you suck" and such are against our board rules. I already deleted the offending posts.

Have a great game, all!

Henry


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## The_Universe (Mar 3, 2004)

Henry said:
			
		

> Hi, all! This is Henry, one of the mods.
> 
> We certainly don't mind you using the thread for discussion of your game, but two things I need to note:
> 
> ...



Henry--Thanks for moving the thread.  The "you suck" posts were all in fun, however.  One of the players.  Sorry for the confusion--all in good fun!


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## The_Universe (Mar 3, 2004)

Hey gang!  

It's time to plan for the weekend once more!  Huzzah!  

Tim, Kat, and Greg are apparently having some computer-related difficulties with the message boards at ENworld.  They don't do us much good as a mass planning tool if only a little more than half the group is using them, so I think we need to come up with a different plan.  Those of you who like the messageboard thing--I'll still check the thread, and let me know if you want to start others, on more specific subjects.  

For scheduling purposes, Kat and Greg are going to be busy all weekend, except for Sunday.  We can try to play Sunday if that's the only time that works, but generally, that cuts our time a little bit short, and makes the start of the next week an unusual pain in the @$$.  The other options are to 1) Play without Kat and Greg on a different day/night, or 2) not play at all this weekend.  

If we play without Kat and Greg, I don't want to have Arfin and L'Aurel standing silently and slack-jawed while the rest of you, act.  I want a plausible reason for their absence, and then I'll get together with the two of them during the week to play catch-up.

Lastly, I have found an archived picture of Mik's mom, apparently from her high school yearbook.  It is attached below.  Isn't she BEAUTIFUL!?!

Let me know what works for you!

--Kennon


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## The_Universe (Mar 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> But, there does come a certain point when we will have to turn and run... and that is, I think, the most pressing issue:
> At what point is it just (and merciful) to run??



This is also a good point to address, come to consensus on, and tell me before I start to plan too heavily.  

Are you going to leave as soon as they take the palace?  As soon as the Armies of the Night (TM) reach a certain point in the city?  If so, what is that point?  As soon as you've gotten 100 people out?  1000?  10000?  All the women and children?  

Think about it, talk about it.  Then, let me know.  And do it ASAP, please!


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## Xath (Mar 3, 2004)

*What are we doing?*

Is there any way we can get a map of the city?  It will be easier to plan if we know what we have to work with.


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## The_Universe (Mar 3, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Is there any way we can get a map of the city? It will be easier to plan if we know what we have to work with.



I'll scan it in and post it here when I get home tonight.  Don't expect it until around 10, though.  

Are there any questions I can answer that will help you plan, before I get the beastie scanned in?

Also, any votes on the weekend plans?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 3, 2004)

For the weekend-- I think it would be best if we played on Sunday... however, at this point, doesn't look like that'll work...

Kennon and I did have plans for Sunday with friends from MD... but-- if that's the only day that will work for the group (save Kat and Greg) so be it, we'll have to rearrange some plans...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 3, 2004)

Also, we should try to work out any problems that people have with the message boards-- I like this system A LOT.


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## Xath (Mar 4, 2004)

*This weekend?*

Sunday would be convenient for me, but if that doesn't work for you guys...aww I have no life.  Just let me know when we're playing.


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## AIM-54 (Mar 4, 2004)

I'm good for pretty much anytime this weekend, so Sunday's not a problem.  I'm terribly flexible in these matters.

That said, I agree with Ju--Liz  on this format, I think it's pretty cool, pretty convenient and conducive to discussion, if we can get everyone on board.  

I've also done what I can for this point in the campaign, just anxiously awaiting feedback (there are decisions/discussion that can occur without having a map, as terribly useful as that will be for more nitty gritty planning).  I guess maybe I was too wordy so that people don't have the inclination to read that crap, but I think it has outlined our overarching options pretty well.  It's really more at the operational level, where decisions can be made, while the map is required for more tactical level decisions.  Liz also brought up some good strategic level considerations, which I also threw some ideas out about.  So, there's plenty that can be decided before we get the map.

  Jeremiah
  aka military nerd extraordinaire


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## The_Universe (Mar 4, 2004)

I agree that you have most of the options out there at this point.  All the questions that NEED to be asked have been asked.  What is often the problem at this poitn is that nobody wants to come up with any answers.  But it still has to be done.  I don't care WHO takes charge, but at this point, you either need to vote as a group on all of the above questions, or somebody has to start dictating.  

To be quite frank, if you guys don't have answers to those questions (and remember that in-game, you had very little time to consider all this--asking for more time will get you little sympathy here) by the time we start playing again, the Universe HIGHLY doubts that a majority of the group will get out of the city alive.  You CANNOT afford to "coast" here.  Either make a plan as a group, have a single character take charge (or both), or you are quite probably dead.  

Anyway--your characters are in a tight spot.  Can you make it!?!

I'll attach that map shortly.


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## The_Universe (Mar 4, 2004)

*The map!*

I have attached a map of the main part of the city, below.  

The big arrow is pointing North.  That should help you get your bearings.  You're standign near the navy base, right by the cliff's edge, near the docks.  

There's no defensive wall around the city....it stretches for a significant distance in all directions beyond the map, but it is a very well-organized city, with wide streets at regular intervals as shown in the picture.  

If you have any questions, let me know!

--Kennon


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## AIM-54 (Mar 4, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I agree that you have most of the options out there at this point.  All the questions that NEED to be asked have been asked.  What is often the problem at this poitn is that nobody wants to come up with any answers.  But it still has to be done.  I don't care WHO takes charge, but at this point, you either need to vote as a group on all of the above questions, or somebody has to start dictating.
> 
> To be quite frank, if you guys don't have answers to those questions (and remember that in-game, you had very little time to consider all this--asking for more time will get you little sympathy here) by the time we start playing again, the Universe HIGHLY doubts that a majority of the group will get out of the city alive.  You CANNOT afford to "coast" here.  Either make a plan as a group, have a single character take charge (or both), or you are quite probably dead.
> 
> ...




  I have answers, but I have a hard time envisioning my character as communicating this effectively on a continuous basis.  Thus, my view of him as an advisor type with other characters performing the actual communicating.  In any event, because this seems to be my show and no one else has done anything really and time is short, I present my plan:

  We are on the docks, approximately where the arrow is pointing towards, on one of those docks there.  From here we move into the city somewhat, establish a position on the edge, preferably having accumulated some guardsmen, soldiers, etc, as well as having started  other people to spread the word to evacuate the city.  This is a task we cannot take upon ourselves, because our combat power is too important to be wasted on that task.  Thus, we delegate.  I'm sure there will be plenty of people running around that we can conscript (heck Freckles might be useful in this regard, despite his stature).  This position might start off by the Amistacian Temple, I can't be specific not being precisely sure where we are.  From there we retreat back as necessary, using all available cover and relying on ranged weapons as much as possible.  After the Amistacian Temple, our next objective will be the City Watch, where I imagine more troops will be mustering or milling about smartly.  There we can form some other teams to a)spread the word and help out with the evacuation and b)fight similar guerrilla style delaying actions.  From there we retreat to the Duke's palace and take up positions there.  The forest is also a possibility depending on how thick it is, but for now I'm saying the palace, which provides certain defenses.  From there, we go to the barracks, assemble further teams depending on the situation there (this will require us to take charge and be cool and in control no matter the situation in order to get them to work with us and to our mutual advantage).  At this point, I'm not sure what exactly is beyond the city out West, but that will be the direction of evacuation, because that is the fastest way away from the invaders.  I imagine most will flee northwest to Crisoth or west to Lial.  Because of the large numbers, it might be best that some refugees head for each city, but this will be beyond our control for the most part, so we should not worry too much about it.  As for us, I think we should from there head west-northwest to the Southern Hills, where we can hopefully acquire some aid, establish some sort of headquarters and prepare a resistance.  Whether we stay for the duration or not remains to be seen, but I think we have a duty to help the local people who are willing to fight organize and begin to operate against the invaders.  I would also counsel an envoy to try and obtain aid from the Orcs, at least, in the bogs.  All people of this continent/island have an interest in seeing the defeat of these invaders and Orcish combat power is not something we should look down upon.  This is a little farther down the road, however.  These are all relatively risky plans, but I think they are the best we have that allow us to do the most good and the most damage against this invading horde.

  This makes it seem like mostly my project, but again I invite criticism, alternatives and thoughts on everything I've said, here and earlier.  But if no one else steps up, I have no problem taking over, for this segment at the very least.  Again, thoughts, criticism, alternatives ARE WELCOME!  I feel kind of bad having usurped this, but Kennon's comments have put everything into black and white.  So I'm rarin' to go.  Who's with me?


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## Xath (Mar 4, 2004)

*The Beginings of a Plan...?*

Alright, so my biggest fear has been somewhat appeased, that there would only be one or two main gates and we'd have a crowd of people ready for slaughter.  There seem to be enough roads that the people, properly cowed and organized, will be able to at least get out of the city.  

That being said, the wide lanes that will help people escape will also hinder us in one of the more convenient tactics of inner city defense, Barricades.  There are simply too many roads for us to barricade properly to slow the oncoming tides of undead and dragonish spawn.  

It looks as though if we're going to make a stand, the best place to do it would be at Centurion's Forest.  It is walled with six points of entry.  If we could collapse all but the rear back entrance, we could hold it for quite a while (depending on the walls i guess)

Anyway, I think our direction, if and once we get out of the city, should be north west.  Traveling through the hills may be dangerous, but it seems that Khaz Modan is our best chance.  Since it's such an old stronghold, it should have a good defense system, as there are local threats.  It should also be able to hold a fair number of people. 

Anyway, I have a midterm tomorrow which I should probably study for...


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## The_Universe (Mar 4, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> We are on the docks, approximately where the arrow is pointing towards, on one of those docks there.



Actually, you're already off the docks.  I'll attach an image with a big red dot representing where you guys were at the end of the last session, according to my notes.  (see below)



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> From here we move into the city somewhat, establish a position on the edge, preferably having accumulated some guardsmen, soldiers, etc, as well as having started other people to spread the word to evacuate the city.



There's no more than a dozen watchmen that you can see in the area (in this case, the area is within visible range), and very few soldiers (no more than 20 not directly engaged in combat.  Those soldiers that are on or near the docks have either already been disemboweled (like the watchman that was killed by the Vilewight last time) or are locked in pitched battle north of you, in and around the navy base.

There either hasn't been enough time for the army personnel to muster and head down to the docks, or something has already gotten into the city that far, and is keeping them away...   

Also, you have about 30 crewmen from the HMS _Maelwys_, under command of Captain Darin Seaborne (formerly Darin McShippy--McShippy is just TOO dumb of a name for a recurring NPC).  They're not trained as warriors, but they exist, and by now they are off the ship and running toward the cliff face (which is far less likely to collapse).



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> This is a task we cannot take upon ourselves, because our combat power is too important to be wasted on that task. Thus, we delegate. I'm sure there will be plenty of people running around that we can conscript (heck Freckles might be useful in this regard, despite his stature).



Yes, Freckles might be useful.  Heheh.  He needs a last name!  Or maybe Freckles IS his last name!  I wonder what his first name would be?  HMMMMM...  



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> From there we retreat to the Duke's palace and take up positions there. The forest is also a possibility depending on how thick it is, but for now I'm saying the palace, which provides certain defenses. From there, we go to the barracks, assemble further teams depending on the situation there (this will require us to take charge and be cool and in control no matter the situation in order to get them to work with us and to our mutual advantage)



Don't count on the use of the Duke's palace (you'll see why when we play again).  Also, the forest is a well-kept public park.  The Forest is not jungle-thick, and there just isn't enough of it for you to hide in for long.  However, it's better than standing in the middle of the street!  It's surrounded by a 12 foot high decorative brick wall, with gates at regular intervals.

As a general rule, you may want to go gather some help at any of the above places BEFORE you start your stand, rather than trying to gather them along the way (may is the operative word here--it is YOUR plan).  There are sufficient numbers of enemies present that it is unlikely that even your relatively strong characters will last long against the onslaught.  Anybody with a decent wisdom in the group will see that you'll probably need more people before you stand...  



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> but this will be beyond our control for the most part, so we should not worry too much about it.



It's only out of your control if you choose for it to be.  You can spend all of your resources organizing an evacuation, rather than fighting---then you can do whatever you want with the gathered refugees (rather than just letting them scatter) as long as they don't know that you're wanted for murder and treason.  Remember that I'm not trying to railroad you into fighting (or not fighting) here.  But your choices will have an effect on what happens in the future...



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I would also counsel an envoy to try and obtain aid from the Orcs, at least, in the bogs. All people of this continent/island have an interest in seeing the defeat of these invaders and Orcish combat power is not something we should look down upon.



While there are friendly tribes and villages of Orcs in the area, the Black Orcs that have taken up residence in the bogs of the Southern Hills and the craggy peaks of the Goblin Mountains are clanless, honorless rogues, thieves, murderers, and worse.  These are the orcs whose clans have banished them, orcs whose spirits are tainted with something that make them unfit for even the rough-and-tumble life spent with other orcs.  When they are banished from the clan, Orcish shamans (and sometimes human priests, if the population of orcs lives close to humans) blackens the skin of the offending Orc to let the world know that THIS orc is not to be trusted...





			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> but Kennon's comments have put everything into black and white. So I'm rarin' to go. Who's with me?



I may have overstated a bit, above.  But fighting a force of thousands without a plan (as has been your particular idiom thus far) is VERY likely to kill you all.  If you're going to run, having a plan is a lot less important.  You just RUN.  

I never go out of my way to kill characters, but I wanted you all to understand that THIS was going to take some thought, unless you don't want to be in charge.  If so, run to a living authority figure elsewhere in the city, and offer your services.  They'll probably take you.  

Above all, don't metagame and assume that you can win this fight (or that I have deliberately set it up so you can't)--I won't fudge the dice for or against you, but sometimes, the challenges are just too big to take on alone, or too big to take on right now.


----------



## The_Universe (Mar 4, 2004)

*Out-of-game administration stuff*

Any consensus yet on when we're playing?  I prefer friday night or saturday, but I am technically free sunday.  But, I need to know when we're going to play soon so I can tell my MD friends what the deal is.  

Also, I think Liz and I are going to try to go see Starsky and Hutch or Hidalgo this weekend...probably friday night.  If the rest of the gang wants to come, you're welcome to tag along.  Then, afterwards (depending on how late it is) we could maybe do something that ISN'T D&D for a while!  :O

Also, the rules I plan to use for any mass combat that the PCs participate in/lead are contained in CRY HAVOC, a book published through Sword and Sorcery Studios by Malhavoc Press.  Monte Cook and Skip Williams wrote the book.  It's available at the RPG shop here at ENWorld, and at amazon.  I recommend it for those of you interested in the subject.


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## The_Universe (Mar 4, 2004)

As it turns out, Kat's Mom has apparently laid claim to her for the whole weekend--which means that we'll be down a player (Kat and I are already trying to figure out what L'Aurel will be doing) no matter when we play.  Based on that, when do you guys want to get together and vanquish some unholy draconids?  

There's also the possibility of getting together at another time this weekend (or quitting a little bit early) to do something OTHER than play.  Watch a movie perhaps?  Play a game (not an RPG?)  Murder a hobo?

Liz and I are thinking about going to see Hidalgo (what she wants to see) or Starsky and Hutch (what I want to see) or both (everybody'd be happy!) this weekend.  Anyone care to join us?  

One of the things I truly appreciate about this group is that we're not just a gaming group--we're friends.  If this weekend won't work, let's get together and do something outside of RPing soon!  

--Kennon


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## Xath (Mar 4, 2004)

*Unearthed Arcana*

Anyone know if Unearthed Arcana is good or not?  I read the review at wizards.com and all that i know is that Unearthed Arcana gives the option to change the hitpoint system of D&D to the Vitality/Wounds system more commonly associated with Starwars D20. Along with some other pretty sweet looking stuff such as the monk fighting style variant, and the prestige paladin. However most people say that all of the variants are available online if you look around long enough.  

I don't know if it's good or not, it's gotten mixed reviews.  Let me know if you know anything.

- Gertie


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## The_Universe (Mar 4, 2004)

*Unearthed Arcana*

I have it.  It's good.  Not all of the variants work well together (in fact, most do not) but all of them can be added to a D20 game depending on the "flavor" you want to produce.  

It's on my shelf at home--this weekend look at it, and then you can decide if you want to buy it.  It's definitely a DM's book for the most part, not so much for players (although there are some things that are useful).

Does that help, Gertie?

Any particular reason sunday works better for you?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 4, 2004)

I think that Sunday is probably the only day that I would want to play based on the number of people that will be present..
However, I am not keen on playing without people at such a crucial point in the game... I do not think that it makes sense for us to split up at this time and, as such, trying to fit it into the story that Kat just happened to slip away and do something else is not something that I think Justice would support... 

So, I would say that we should probably just not play this weekend...  those of us that are free should get together, go see a movie, and hang out...

However, if that is not something that people are willing to do-- well then, we'll just have to split up...

There's my thoughts...
Cheers.


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## Xath (Mar 4, 2004)

*Bored*

So, I have a bit of time to kill until 3:30, so I've been exploring Amazon.com.  Did you know there is an official D&D Roleplaying Soundtrack?  Not from the movie, but a soundtrack just for playing D&D...crazy.


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## Laurel (Mar 5, 2004)

*At Last!*

Testing 1.... 2... 3... testing.... If this was an actual emergency... 
Wahoooo!  Finally Kat/Laurel the real me is on  Yeah


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## The_Universe (Mar 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Testing 1.... 2... 3... testing.... If this was an actual emergency...
> Wahoooo! Finally Kat/Laurel the real me is on  Yeah



Welcome to the boards!  

Also, in case you're wondering, Kat-Rodney's tag on the boards is Moridin.  Look around for him and say "hi!"


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## Archon (Mar 5, 2004)

*better late then never?*

hey look, "it's me a'Mario!"
or mik as the case may be. here are my two cents after reading ALL of the posts at once(i'm a binger). 
the guerilla war sounds like the best idea. i say we route the women and children west to the major cities as we the heroes and every available person with a sharp pointy stabber hold back the tides of darkness just long enough to get the bulk of the refugees out. while the refugees head west, we draw the horde's fire as we head towards Khaz Modan. all the while fighting as Jerimiah said: utilizing ambush and evasion tactics with ranged weaponry. once we get to Khaz Modan we can take out whatever pursuit forces the horde sent after us, mind you their dragons will be quite ineffective in an underground battle. once those forces are defeated, we send word to the refugees about our state, maybe trying to escort them to Khaz Modan. meanwhile we send word to all of those that will listen of the current plight and our plan to battle it. while all of this is going on we train and operate agaisnt the Horde in Oceanus.
my two cents.
mik aka "Sexy"


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## Archon (Mar 5, 2004)

*and another thing!*

oh, and sunday will work, but i'm free after the parade on saturday.


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## The_Universe (Mar 5, 2004)

Okay--here's the deal!  I think we should play saturday (since Kat and Greg are both out all weekend) around 4:30/5:30.  Does that give people enough time to get here?   

Or, does everybody prefer sunday (becaus if you all do, we can certainly play then)?  

Friday, those of us who are free should go see the movie, and then maybe play something that's not an RPG--maybe Munchkin?  Star Munchkin? Double Dash?  Super Monkey Ball?


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## The_Universe (Mar 5, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> oh, and sunday will work, but i'm free after the parade on saturday.



You in for the flicks tomorrow night?  Any preference on a film?  Both?

Jeremiah--what about you?  Tim?  I know that Gertie, Kat, and Greg are busy...that leaves you guys.


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## Archon (Mar 5, 2004)

*i'm a gunna win!*

errr!! i hate playing without people but if we have to then i vote for later saturday, although i'm not sure exactley when i'll be done. as for friday, count me in and count on me doing most the paying. i got my bonus and i want to celebrate by spending a small portion on my friends.
mik aka "Mik"


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## The_Universe (Mar 5, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> errr!! i hate playing without people but if we have to then i vote for later saturday, although i'm not sure exactley when i'll be done. as for friday, count me in and count on me doing most the paying. i got my bonus and i want to celebrate by spending a small portion on my friends.
> mik aka "Mik"



Well, we can just not play...

But, if playing without people is going to stop us it may be the middle of april before we play in this campaign again...lots of people going to be gone in the next little while.  Ugh.  

I was under the impression that we wanted to play if at all possible. If we'd rather wait, there is always stuff to do.   

Greg--if they're doing girl stuff saturday night, will that work?  Otherwise, I'll have Arfin and L'Aurel say that they need to retrieve the Duke's body (before they can raise him as one of their unholy minions) and then we'll play out that stuff next week when you are less busy.

Keep me posted!


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## The_Universe (Mar 5, 2004)

*Now I'M BORED!  Thanks Gertie!  It's spreading!*

I have attached another file for your viewing pleasure.  This time, it's a word file.  Military Ranks in the Falcon Kingdom.  Have a look--the Army ranks also give you an idea of what various units are called, and how big they are.  

On another note, today (March 4th) was DM's Day!  Everybody, give me a present!  

(really--it was DM's day...I didn't make it up...look elsewhere on the boards!)


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## AIM-54 (Mar 5, 2004)

*More Planning!*

Okay having taken comments etc into account, I just have a few comments:

1) The plan is not for us to use the main thoroughfares (though Gertie's right, those do make it difficult to set up effective roadblocks etc).  Rather we travel through the more urban areas, in which there are streets if I recall not only the map but a previous discussion about Oceanus.  Those will be ideal for hit and runs, which is about all we want to do until we either gather sufficient force or come into possession of one hell of a position (unlikely until we hit Khaz Modan, if we go that way).

2) Warning about the Duke's Palace, aside, most of those objectives are mainly useful as waypoints, as well as places where we may be able to get help.  Naturally, if there's something in the city making things difficult, this plan could get blown to hell in no time.  In any event, they do serve as useful points in case someone gets separated, as well as simply having a movement plan through the city.  If stuff goes to hell, we might consider setting secondary points as well, but I don't know if we have all that much time.  They do give us a pretty regular path out of the city, however.  I'm hesitant about the Centurion's Forest as it would be difficult to hold without many more forces, but it may be a better waypoint than the Palace.

3)  If there's a stand it will only be at the very end.  Everything else is going to a movement action.  Waypoints may be a place where we spend more than one round (so long as 3, even), to regroup, check out the situation, offer guidance to nearby soldiers, acquire help.  As in all things guerrilla this entire plan hinges on speed and stealth and not lingering anywhere for very long.  We're not trying to defeat the army, simply harry it.

4)  A lot of this depends on how the Horde attacks.  If they just swarm into the city every which way, we'll be retreating hard and fast.  If they concentrate on pockets of resistance before moving on, we may have more opportunities to go after them before retreating.  If they muster along the docks before heading in, we'll have similar opportunities.  Under those circumstances, the goal would be to harry them, hopefully get them to send a small force, that we can take down with appropriate tactics.  The danger, of course, is that we get tied down somewhere and the enemy advance beyond us, essentially cutting us off from escape, or else forcing us to fight through/stealth our way out.

Finally, we're in a tough spot, so our conditions for victory will have to be living to fight another day.  If we can take a few bad guys down, too, that'll be great.

  Jeremiah
  aka Windbag


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 5, 2004)

*Out of Game: My thoughts on Saturday.*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Greg--if they're doing girl stuff saturday night, will that work?  Otherwise, I'll have Arfin and L'Aurel say that they need to retrieve the Duke's body (before they can raise him as one of their unholy minions) and then we'll play out that stuff next week when you are less busy.
> 
> Keep me posted!




If that is the case, I'm fine with playing... if we are short two people, I don't want to play without them... 

I know Kennon really wants to play... but, even he said last weekend, if we're missing two or more that we should not play..

So, yep... 

See Jeremiah and Mik tonight!!

--LizzyB


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## The_Universe (Mar 5, 2004)

Why don't we say this: come over saturday afternoon around 4:30, bring your DnD stuff, and Star Wars stuff if you have it. That way, all our options are open.  We can do one of those things, or something else entirely...whatever people want to do.  

Liz is right--I REALLY want to play this weekend. But, as I have said, I'll let the majority rule, here.


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## Laurel (Mar 6, 2004)

*Laurel's suicide mission*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Why don't we say this: come over saturday afternoon around 4:30, bring your DnD stuff, and Star Wars stuff if you have it. That way, all our options are open. We can do one of those things, or something else entirely...whatever people want to do.
> 
> Liz is right--I REALLY want to play this weekend. But, as I have said, I'll let the majority rule, here.



Okay I think Greg is going to make it tonight for gaming,a nd Kennon knows basically what I want to do- I wrote this quickly so you guys can adjust this part to what is happening in game, or Kennon change it so it fits better  
_________________________________________________________
After hearing the proclamation of the Archonus Bluestar, and the beginings of a plan..... Laurel looks to here two eagles and tries to ask them if they would stay/leave/or go with her firends... she will not sacrifice another without a choice (Kennon and I can decide later what they choose).  L'Aurel then looks quickly around the circle and states clearly, "I must still get the Duke's body, as I have failed him yet again.  Greyclaw was taken, and I will not see his body and mind defiled by this filth.  His death was not as it should have been.... Your plan is starting to sound good, and I shall try to meet up with you at __________ for the last stand (Kennon and I will also decide how much of the plan I hear).  The survival of all these people is more dire then the Duke's, so I shall warn those that I can, once I have his body. I shall have to use stealth to retrieve his body.  If we are split up till the battle ends good or bad should I suceed I shall send word to you- it will have the claw of the duke's symbol holding a laurel leaf.  Thus you will know the message came from me, and I have the duke."  
Looking to Archonus, "I can track all of you as a group easier no matter the outcome here today, and the citadel refuge is still my goal.  You can do much better by staying with them, as this is most likely a suicide mission, but I must go alone.... Please... protect them as you can."  
Smiling to each in turn, and trying to bolster thier confidence, "We have been through alot and can get through this as well, remember you each have strengths and waeknessess use all of these as weapons."  She then simply nods, and feeling uncomfortable with this odd feeling of sorrow at the parting she pulls her hood up "Till we meet again, friends." Then truns into the streets.


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## The_Universe (Mar 6, 2004)

Awesome!  Let's PLAY!  

Kat--when is a good time this week for you and I to get together and get you caught up to the point where everyone else gets today.


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## Laurel (Mar 6, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Awesome! Let's PLAY!
> 
> Kat--when is a good time this week for you and I to get together and get you caught up to the point where everyone else gets today.



Anytime after 6pm   If it is bad (rainy) day it works better otherwise I like to be outside and bbq-ing   but really anytime works...And I almost had proof that Mik is actually in the military honor guard.... but Greg had bad timing, so alas no proof :-( 
NEXT TIME though... oh yeah....

Have fun tonight, and hope ya'll had fun last night!


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## Xath (Mar 7, 2004)

*This Week*

So...my best days are Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday this week. But I can make it whenever...just let me know.


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## Laurel (Mar 7, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> So...my best days are Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday this week. But I can make it whenever...just let me know.



I guess that becomes the next question... did Xath and I run off with Farathiers horse, or am I alone... no actually I went to the temple got the dukes body went to the palace chopped off his head and claimed the throne!!!! THE END for Laurel....


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## The_Universe (Mar 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I guess that becomes the next question... did Xath and I run off with Farathiers horse, or am I alone... no actually I went to the temple got the dukes body went to the palace chopped off his head and claimed the throne!!!! THE END for Laurel....



 I believe that L'aurel was already on a horse.  When you started riding toward the Apectan Cathedral (or wherever you and Archon were going before combat started) you had been on a horse.  

I'm guessing that as you took off, Xath started after you, hopped on Fraerathir's new horse, (since she's done similar things before) and took off after her.  On horseback, you'll travel faster.  Xath would have started after you (catching up, probably) sicne she realized that it's a bad idea to let you go off completely alone.  

When we get together to play, you'll just be starting off.


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## Laurel (Mar 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I believe that L'aurel was already on a horse. When you started riding toward the Apectan Cathedral (or wherever you and Archon were going before combat started) you had been on a horse.
> 
> I'm guessing that as you took off, Xath started after you, hopped on Fraerathir's new horse, (since she's done similar things before) and took off after her. On horseback, you'll travel faster. Xath would have started after you (catching up, probably) sicne she realized that it's a bad idea to let you go off completely alone.
> 
> When we get together to play, you'll just be starting off.



      I will e-mail you guys (Kennon & Gerti)  tomorrow, as I can not get to this board during the day. We can set up a day/time this week, and I can bother Kennon with more questions.


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## The_Universe (Mar 8, 2004)

Sounds good.  I've got class til 8 on monday, tuesday and wednesday.  I'm free all day everyday but Monday, though.  I don't know if that makes sense, or not...but I'm tired.  Heh.  

I'm looking forward to getting to play, though...there is much to reveal!  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH!


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## Archon (Mar 8, 2004)

*i'm da winna!!*

i really don't have anything useful to say, but i was here, read the messages and have digested them. 
mmmm.....so full.
anyway, i think we're on the right track. all we have to do is continue organizing the exodus to Hyrewl, and then resurect the duke and we should be in the clear with a strong, if displaced, ally.
party.
mik - aka "and the pudding"

"WE LOVE DA MOOOOOON!!"


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## Archon (Mar 8, 2004)

...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 8, 2004)

*Current Situation*

Alright, so, "Team Clear the City" is at the Apectan Temple looking for our homies with the Duke's body...

3 questions...

(1) What do we do when we're done at the Temple?

(2) Are we going to wish the Duke back to life?
   --I know that Arfin had talked about using the wishes to make his weapons more powerful... but, if the wishes truly are "community property," I think that they should be used to bring the Duke back.  It would work to our advantage in a number of ways... especially once we get to the city with the refugees..

(3) DM-- How much time do we have left before the bad guys start chopping off the heads of innocent babies ACTIVELY as opposed to just chopping of the heads of innocent babies that get in their way?


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## AIM-54 (Mar 8, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Alright, so, "Team Clear the City" is at the Apectan Temple looking for our homies with the Duke's body...
> 
> 3 questions...
> 
> ...




1) Once we're done at the temple, I think we should head to the Barracks and see what we can do about rallying forces there, preparing some sort of delaying attack or simply sending them off to rendezvous with everyone else at Hyrwl.  If the Duke's back at that point, we have serious negotiating power there, too.

2)So, I think we should bring the Duke back, he will be far more useful to us alive than dead and may be the only chance to effectively organize a resistance AND get the refugees off to safety, as well as alerting the rest of the continent that bad things are there and may be coming after them next.

Those're my thoughts at any rate.


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## Xath (Mar 8, 2004)

*Wishing Him Back to Life*

Maybe I misread the incedent with Archonis Bluestar, but didn't he make Arfin promise not to use his wishes?  Or was it just not to use them at that point?


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## The_Universe (Mar 8, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Maybe I misread the incedent with Archonis Bluestar, but didn't he make Arfin promise not to use his wishes?  Or was it just not to use them at that point?



 Arfin didn't have to promise anything.  But Archonus Bluestar, who apparently had some knowledge of the future, STRONGLY CAUTIONED Arfin against using his wishes at all, ever.  

However, that still leaves the question of whether or not you could/would/should believe the dark doppelganger of Archon.  

HAHA! I LOVE MORAL DILEMMAS!


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## AIM-54 (Mar 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Arfin didn't have to promise anything.  But Archonus Bluestar, who apparently had some knowledge of the future, STRONGLY CAUTIONED Arfin against using his wishes at all, ever.
> 
> However, that still leaves the question of whether or not you could/would/should believe the dark doppelganger of Archon.
> 
> HAHA! I LOVE MORAL DILEMMAS!




It's somewhat less of a moral dilemma, though, if we use the wish to act as a spell of a level lower than 8th (I believe?), which, if I recall correctly, is enough to perform one of the resurrection spells with relatively less risk than say, wishing for an army of angels.

The real moral dilemma is more over whether it isethical to resurrect someone from the dead...


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## The_Universe (Mar 8, 2004)

Very true.  

However, the description of most resurrection spells says that you can't resurrect somebody that doesn't want to come back.  So, even if the church frowns upon it, you know you're not going to rip him from the comfort of Heaven if you wish for his return.  If he's happy where he is, he'll just stay there, and you'll be down a wish.


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## AIM-54 (Mar 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Very true.
> 
> However, the description of most resurrection spells says that you can't resurrect somebody that doesn't want to come back.  So, even if the church frowns upon it, you know you're not going to rip him from the comfort of Heaven if you wish for his return.  If he's happy where he is, he'll just stay there, and you'll be down a wish.




  Under the circumstances, I'd argue that's not a bad risk to take, especially considering the nature of his demise.  And if we just lose a wish, well, that's one less opportunity for destroying the space-time continuum...again...


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## The_Universe (Mar 8, 2004)

Yes--the consequences are certainly much less dire, unless Arfin REALLY screws something up in the wording.


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## Archon (Mar 8, 2004)

*Clark Kented*

"......dark doppleganger of Archon" teh. heeee is the real Archon! the archon that fights with the group now is the "extra" one.........oh well.
but yeah, Arfin's wishes are community property whether he wants it or not. so, yes, we are bringing back the duke. preferably somewhere safer so he doesn't just die again.
also before we start introducing ourselves as allies may i suggest comming up with secret identities. our names are names of outlaws, and mine a herald of the Bluestar, and i see it being a good idea to come up with new names. 
i think, and somebody please correct me if i'm wrong, only the Duke, if anyone, knows our true names. and once we ressurect him i think he'd be nice enough to keep our little secret.
i don't care how we come up with the names but i suggest we all start thinking about it.
who's with me on this?
mik - aka "Fun Lova"


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## Laurel (Mar 9, 2004)

Well, we did use made up names to get out of the thanesport (or some of us did)  Why not use those... almost start them as a backstory of thier own.  THus we are bluestar/haters of the king and our allies just happen to always be in these bad spots as helping the king.  Using other names will be hard for Kareth though, so if he can remember a made up name or just not tell anyone his we should be fine 

As for bringing back the duke... yes... he was slain before his time, and may have info for us.  There is a strong possibility he will see the unfinished buisness in this world, but we could just be burning one wish.  He would be a cool ally and useful.  As for the wish part of bringing back the duke... that is a chance we may have to take.  Otherwise someone will have to carry him and that slows us down. Plus each day and if the body is not whole it takes a higher level caster to bring him back.  

Would Archonus take the pain for the Duke?  He will be without his chosen weapon, and with his status a target.  I have not seen him fight with anything else, and I hate to say it, but he may only be proficient with Greyclaw which is missing.


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## Archon (Mar 9, 2004)

As a point of fact, the Duke is not the only official in Oceanus that knows who you are.  

Watch Commander Gordon is also aware of your true identities, and told the characters that stopped there as much.  You can imagine that there are probably others in the watch that will know, as well.  

Bear that in mind as you craft alter egos.


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## The_Universe (Mar 9, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> As a point of fact, the Duke is not the only official in Oceanus that knows who you are.
> 
> Watch Commander Gordon is also aware of your true identities, and told the characters that stopped there as much. You can imagine that there are probably others in the watch that will know, as well.
> 
> Bear that in mind as you craft alter egos.



The above is actually my post.  I forgot to see who was logged in on my PC before I started posting.  

Sorry Mik.


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## Archon (Mar 9, 2004)

*Archon the Bodyguard*

for a second there i thought "dark" Archon was posting. that'd be weird. 
anyway, answering L'Aurel's question, yes Archon will take his pain. that should help prove i'm not that bad of a herald(of the bluestar) once you get to know me. 
as for our alter ego's, i say we avoid giving any names for now and wait till the duke is back. once he's back on his feet(in a living way not zombirific), we can consult with him and the watch commander. then the duke can introduce us to his people as our alter ego's during our victory celebration.
*wink, wink*
i looked into raising the duke. "wish" can duplicate a resurrection without endangering the fabric of reality. also, resurrection can be cast 10 days per caster level from the time of death. although the duke will suffer level loss(one).
mik - aka "The Real McCoy"


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## Archon (Mar 10, 2004)

*building an ensemble*

here's a question for the whole gang!!
"how does your character feel about the six other Player Characters?"
more or less, how does your character interact with the others "off-camera"? 
don't post your answers though, send them to The Universe then he'll post them all at once.
mik- aka "stinky McNichols.......wait a sec-"


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## Xath (Mar 10, 2004)

*Names*

As I was writing down Xath's thoughts on each character...

Does everyone have last named?  I know Arfin Kegsplitter, Archonis Earendor(probably butchered that spelling), and Justice Fairweather, but what about the rest of our motly bunch.  Most likely you've all said at some point, and I just have a crappy memory.

In case you were wondering, Xath does not have a last name unless you count "of clan Thunderheart" but that is for character history reasons, not because I'm too lazy to think of one.


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## Laurel (Mar 10, 2004)

*poor no-name kid*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> As I was writing down Xath's thoughts on each character...
> 
> Does everyone have last named? I know Arfin Kegsplitter, Archonis Earendor(probably butchered that spelling), and Justice Fairweather, but what about the rest of our motly bunch. Most likely you've all said at some point, and I just have a crappy memory.
> 
> In case you were wondering, Xath does not have a last name unless you count "of clan Thunderheart" but that is for character history reasons, not because I'm too lazy to think of one.



My name is L'aurel of the Druid's Forest.... If she had one her father never used it, and to her knowledge no one ever said her fathers. And hey, 'of the druid's forest' is better then L'aurel a'Tree.


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## The_Universe (Mar 11, 2004)

*10 Foot Poles and Other things to not touch stuff with*

Hey gang.  Quick correction on the e-mail for the weekend if you happen to check this and not that.

We're getting together tomorrow night to hang out and not-RP, around 6:30/7.  Also, we'll have the opportunity to meet Jeremiah's flame. Suggestions for activities will be accepted.

Saturday at 2pm (NOT Sunday) Let's get together and game.  Huzzah.  We'll be down Mik for sure (he's out in the field) and possibly Jeremiah, depending on what Nico thinks of us.  So be on your best behavior--no biting!

See you all then!

--Kennon


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## Laurel (Mar 12, 2004)

Whahooooooo! Xath and Laurel live... well sort of.... and we have the duke... again sort of.... and we have a plan... no that was you guys laurels plan was just to get the duke..... huh... oh well. 
oh... no biting, but that was my formal greeting to everyone (um.. joking by the way) 
Also- Yeah to random road trips even if they are short--- they are still fun


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Whahooooooo! Xath and Laurel live... well sort of.... and we have the duke... again sort of.... and we have a plan... no that was you guys laurels plan was just to get the duke..... huh... oh well.
> oh... no biting, but that was my formal greeting to everyone (um.. joking by the way)
> Also- Yeah to random road trips even if they are short--- they are still fun




*chuckles*  Yes, Laurel and Xath do *sort of* live... you crazy cats need to learn to roll before we play this afternoon!  

HOURS of entertainment... See y'all later!


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## The_Universe (Mar 14, 2004)

Way to go, gang! You're survivors! We'll probably pick up in 2 weeks, a little ways before you get to Hyrwl, since you'll have ample opportunity to get there ahead of all but a few of the numerous refugees.

Now, you simply need to hope that word spread across the city that the retreating populace was to gather in Hyrwl. Only time will tell. Nonetheless, you made it out of Oceanus, the city of the Forsaken Elves, with your lives mostly intact, and now you have a pet Tyrannosaur, and Justice has a Huge Magical Beast. heh. 

I'm opening up the discussion now for what those of us remaining in the area want to do next week--any suggestions? 

Anyway--good job. Looking forward to picking up in two weeks.


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## AIM-54 (Mar 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Way to go, gang! You're survivors! We'll probably pick up in 2 weeks, a little ways before you get to Hyrwl, since you'll have ample opportunity to get there ahead of all but a few of the numerous refugees.
> 
> Now, you simply need to hope that word spread across the city that the retreating populace was to gather in Hyrwl. Only time will tell. Nonetheless, you made it out of Oceanus, the city of the Forsaken Elves, with your lives mostly intact, and now you have a pet Tyrannosaur, and Justice has a Huge Magical Beast. heh.
> 
> ...




Do tell.  I'm dying to know what happened in this week's episode


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## The_Universe (Mar 14, 2004)

I'll see if I can get someone else in the group to fill you in, Jeremiah.  If nobody's done it by tomorrow night, I'll do it.  

Also, am I correct in assuming that you are gone this upcoming weekend?


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## AIM-54 (Mar 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I'll see if I can get someone else in the group to fill you in, Jeremiah.  If nobody's done it by tomorrow night, I'll do it.
> 
> Also, am I correct in assuming that you are gone this upcoming weekend?



 Yeah, I'm gone this weekend, off to Boston for hockey, theater and a family reunion.  Should be fun.


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## The_Universe (Mar 15, 2004)

Awesome.  Hope you and Nico had a good time this weekend, although I'm sure the group could have used the extra muscle that kaereth provides.  We'll pick it up in two weeks!  Huzzah!


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## Xath (Mar 15, 2004)

Quite a complicated bit to explain, but I'll do my best.  

L'aurel jumped on Frarathir's new horse and ran off to retrieve the Duke's body.  Xath didn't think it was a good idea for her to go off alone, and so jumped on her pony and followed.  About 2 blocks away, they ran in to their first encounter.  A large Draconid (portrayed by Mik Nichols) and his 6 minions.  Both horses died, then Xath nearly died, then L'Aurel nearly died, but we finally beat them.  Hooray!

Outside the Apectan Temple, they encountered several undead.  L'Aurel was paralyzed for 4? rounds and Xath was quickly incapacitated.  Then they ripped Xath's throat out.  Poor Xath was killed.  L'aurel unparalyzed next round and killed the zombies.  

L'aurel carried Xath's body into the Apectan Temple (don't ask me how), where she met the crazy guy who kept calling Justice Katie.  No one at the temple could ressurect, but the crazy guy(let's call him George for lack of a name)  could cast reincarnate, and did so.  

Xath went to the halls of her forefathers and found many answers.  She was allowed to ask one question of her ancestors and asked "What is the destiny of the Army of the Phoenix?"  The response as follows.

A kingdom of flame,
A kingdom of ashes,
Shall be a phoenix birth.  

But its birth, as all,
Is never certain, should 
Phoenix fail to show worth.  

Beyond the Westgate
Shadowed serpent slithers
To feast upon ruins.

King’s folly calls to
The unquiet dead of
Ages gone, heroes lost.  

Shadow will hold sway
Over Falcon’s throne,
Time passed shall come again.

Spirit blades hold the
Fate of hidden queen’s
Throne of hallow’ed flame.  

Beware the serpent,
He who knows secrets
Of Falcon’s lost rebirth.  

Beware the founder
Who trades soul for life
Unending, wakened.  

North and West the
Damned assemble, t’bring
Doom to chosen kingdoms.  

A Falcon in flames 
Shall be Phoenix’s
Dawn upon the redden’d earth. 

What I've been able to understand so far is that the Bluestar really is a red Herring! 
So anyway, Xath was given the option to stay or return and chose to return to you guys. Here is where Kat's "sort of" comes in.  Xath was reincarnated into the body of a Tall, svelte, fair elf.  Almost double the height, almost the same weight.  Then we waited for 10 minutes as Xath wandered around the temple confused as heck as to why the world had shrunk.  Then the rest of the party, sans Cirith and Archonis, arrived at the temple.  That was Thursday.  Now it's bedtime.  Someone else can explain Saturday or I'll do it later.


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## The_Universe (Mar 16, 2004)

*new e-mail*

kbauman@bearingpoint.net

That's where to send the nerd questions if/when you have them.


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## The_Universe (Mar 17, 2004)

*And now for something completely different*

Liz's brother Laramy is going to be in town this weekend, starting tomorrow.  We're going to go do some rudimentary sightseeing on saturday (I think) but the evening will be open by and large all weekend.  

We have a large number of people gone from the group this weekend, leaving (I think) Gertie, Tim, Liz and myself.  

One of the things we hoped to do while Laramy was here was to introduce him to Roleplaying.  The easiest way to do that is to just have him jump in, but the regular campaign is perhaps a little complex for a middle-schooler to just hop into, and trying to write up a 7th or 8th level character without ever having written up ANY character before just plain sucks @$$.  

In short, when we play this weekend, I was thinking I (or someone else who wants to try out their skills in a low pressure environment) could run a nice, simple one-shot to show Laramy the ropes of D&D.  He's into the fantasy thing, and so while I WISH we could play star wars or D20 Modern, I think we're stuck with D&D for the weekend.  

Let me know if you want to participate (or run) an adventure for 1st level characters in D&D.  

If you want to participate (but not run it) have a 1st level character written up using my standard rolling rules, and I'll let you know more about WHEN we're playing this weekend as soon as I know.


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## Xath (Mar 17, 2004)

*The Good, The Bad, and the Awesome*

Bad News: I had to give up the six flags job because of transportation conflicts.

Good News:  I don't have that insane rehearsal schedule.

Awesome News: Last night I auditioned and got into my favorite play in the world, "The Complete Works of William Shakespeare (abridged)"

Bad News:  Starting March 29, it rehearses every Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday in Baltimore, leaving Saturdays and sunday nights open for roleplaying.  Bye bye fridays.  

Bad News:  You're going to have to come see it.  

Scary News:  I keep a stack of level 1 characters ready for such an RP emergency as this weekend.  Although, most likely, I'll just make another one. 

Bad News: Midterms today and tomorrow.

Good News:  Spring break is next week.


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## The_Universe (Mar 17, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Bad News: I had to give up the six flags job because of transportation conflicts.



That sucks.   



> Good News: I don't have that insane rehearsal schedule.



WOOHOO! 



> Awesome News: Last night I auditioned and got into my favorite play in the world, "The Complete Works of William Shakespeare (abridged)"



I like this play.  It is also among my favorites.  Is it still the three person cast?  If so, which player are you?   



> Bad News: Starting March 29, it rehearses every Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday in Baltimore, leaving Saturdays and sunday nights open for roleplaying. Bye bye fridays.



*angry zombie noise*  Dammit!  Oh well.  At least we'll still have saturdays, which is mostly when we play, anyway.  
Bad News: You're going to have to come see it. 



> Scary News: I keep a stack of level 1 characters ready for such an RP emergency as this weekend. Although, most likely, I'll just make another one.



Yes, that's a little scary, I admit.  But I suppose it could be worse.  As long as you have never tried to bite someone to help get you "in" to the character, or used your black trenchcoat as a cape so that you could stalk across the metro station, you're still healthier than some.  

As long as you view life as a contest where all the other living people are competitors, that puts you squarely in the "good enough" category.  

On a more serious note, try to run something fairly standard, since Laramy is only partially aware of the standard RP stereotypes.  In this case, it's a good idea to play something standard, so that he gets what's going on.  



> Bad News: Midterms today and tomorrow.



My advice: murder a hobo as a sacrifice to the dark gods of homework.   



> Good News: Spring break is next week.



YAY!  Mine is this week, but I have a job to go to.    No rest for the wicked.


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## Xath (Mar 17, 2004)

*[insert title here]*

It is the 3 person show, and I have the luck of playing the ever witty and sarcastic role, originally portrayed by Jess Borgensen.

And I CAN make normal D&D characters, thank you very much.  Jeez.  You want to see wierd, you should have seen the campaign where one of my friends was a halfling barbarian.


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## The_Universe (Mar 18, 2004)

Heh.  My buddy Dave Wheeler (now in Law School in SD, also formerly known as Thane Apecto) had a secondary character that he played on side quests known as Lyle Macrophallus (pronounced ma-krau-fo-lis; emphasis on the second syllable), who was in fact a halfling barbarian.  If you're not so good at greek, then you might not realize that the name meant Lyle Large-Dick.  I told him that he couldn't play a character named Lyle Longwanger, so he changed it to greek.  Silly bastard.  

Mik has also written up a halfling barbarian, and I can think of at least three other people who have played halfling barbarians in the relatively recent past.  So, it's silly, but not THAT silly.  

On the matter of the play, Jess was my favorite when I saw them do History of America, abridged, in London.  Best line of the whole show was his:  "I wanted to make love to her in the worst way...     Standing up...    In a hammock."

The guy who was playing the girl in the scene (whose name escapes me) started to crack up, and the show stopped dead for 5 whole minutes.  It was AWESOME.


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## The_Universe (Mar 18, 2004)

I have attached some maps.  One is of the entire known world, and the other is of a couple of provinces of the kingdom.  By comparing them to the world map, you ought to get a pretty good idea of where things are.


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## The_Universe (Mar 21, 2004)

Gertie, this is for you.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 22, 2004)

*Special thanks...*

Very special thanks to Gertie and Tim for coming over to play with my little brother.  He's a little annoying... but, D&D seemed to be a really good experience for him.  A chance to use his imagination and really do something that doesn't involve some aspect of juvenile delinquency is just the thing he needed.

I don't know if it will have a long-lasting impact on him but, a girl can dream, right?

So, thanks again...  I really appreciate it.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 22, 2004)

*Empty Nest Will Be Full Again*

Hey y'all!  Mik called Kennon and I this evening-- seems that he will return on Thursday... the proverbial "nest" (aka couch) of the Bauman's will once again be full... and there will be much rejoicing!

So, with this knowledge in hand, I ask you the very important question: When do you want to play this weekend?

Do let us know!


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## The_Universe (Mar 22, 2004)

*For those of you whose geekery takes on a militaristic bent...*

Attached is a rough idea of how the fortifications around Hyrwl will appear.  This seemed like a good idea for the walls of an ancient forest town, but I'm not sure how to construct the same kind of forest-friendly gates.  

If somebody has an idea for an organic-seeming set of gates, let me know.


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## AIM-54 (Mar 23, 2004)

You could have something where a tree serves as a hinge for a stone gate that can blend seamlessly with the wall.  Sorta like the tree rotates swinging the gate open and then rotates back to close it, if that makes sense?  I dunno, it just struck me looking at the specs a little more closely.


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## The_Universe (Mar 23, 2004)

*Yet another updated map*

This map might be useful.  It's a re-drawn Prydein with the major towns and villages labelled. 

That's an interesting idea, Jeremiah.  

If the tree itself rotates, (or at least part of it does) the wall has to be 2x thickness near the gates, so that the part that swings has some value as a protective tool.  

I'll keep thinking it over--obviously, I'll have to have it decided by whenever we play this weekend. 

--Kennon


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## The_Universe (Mar 23, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> You could have something where a tree serves as a hinge for a stone gate that can blend seamlessly with the wall.  Sorta like the tree rotates swinging the gate open and then rotates back to close it, if that makes sense?  I dunno, it just struck me looking at the specs a little more closely.



 I'm tempted to go with the "Wall of Thorns" or "Wall of Stone" Spells.  They both can be cast by mid-level casters, but they're also naturally permanent.  

That means that if I cast wall-of-stone to close the gates, I have to get out a pickaxe to open them back up again.  Wall of thorns is easier to get rid of, but neither can just be dispelled when you don't want them anymore (as far as I can tell).  

Anyway you (or some other member of the group) can think of a way to make the gates work better?


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## The_Universe (Mar 23, 2004)

*Furthermore...*

When does everybody want to play this weekend?  Liz and I are available whenever, and I definitely prefer friday or saturday to sunday.  

Further down the road, what is everyone doing over easter?  My parents, brother, and sister are going to be in town, so we can't play.  But I thought that perhaps those of you who weren't going to visit family could swing by--no sense in anybody being alone over the holiday.

As always, just let me know!


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## The_Universe (Mar 23, 2004)

God I'm hungry.  Somebody post some food the thread, so I can download and eat it.


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## Laurel (Mar 24, 2004)

*Back in the Good ol' USA *

YEAH! Home at last!!!  Had a wonderfully great time----
Okay for playing this weekend.... um saturday I think is best for me.  Also, about Easter weekend: Greg and I are both out of town and I (does not include Greg)am out for the next weekend unless my mom, Greg's mom, my sister-in-law, Greg's cousin, and assorted friends would all like to play (BIG wedding planning bash in DC!)    But when it gets closer I will get with Kennon and who ever wants to play bad people and see if I die during the week  That was fun the last time, and hopefully we shall all roll better in the future.


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## The_Universe (Mar 24, 2004)

Despite being out of the country, Kat was the first person who voted, so SATURDAY IT IS!  (actually, Liz was the first person that voted.  But Liz's vote is really more than a vote...more like her word is law around here... )

I say we start at 1pm. Gives people time for lunch, and if we screw off for the requisite hour before we start, we'll still get to play for a really long time!

The last chapter was called "The Fall of the City of Forsaken Elves" for those who care. This chapter, "A Debt, Repaid"


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## Archon (Mar 26, 2004)

*7 pounds of pudding.*

the mik is back.


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## The_Universe (Mar 27, 2004)

I highly recommend this "Story Hour" thread. http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4912

It's from a guy's D20 Modern campaign. After the session is done, he writes it up, book-style. I thought that those of you with campaign journals might find this interesting, and it may give you an idea of the type of campaign I'm contemplating running after this one is done.


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## The_Universe (Mar 28, 2004)

You all never cease to amaze me. Good tactics, fair strategy. Nobody died! 

1000 bonus XP for roleplaying for everybody, except Gertie.  Gertie gets 1500. Merry Xmas. Next week should certainly be interesting.


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## Laurel (Mar 28, 2004)

*after battle- yeah- fun with dead things*

End of last game- L'aurel loots bodies and puts them on the cart(that edriss was originally in) which she sets on fire with burning branches from the tree (people can help or just stand there and think she is crazy). Then she quickly says a little prayer for the fallen/slain horse. Then she goes back to camp to restring her bow (can I do that with profession bow making?) and try to talk with Father 'George.' Let's see how far that one goes!  
L'aurel's hope in this was to keep everyone else out of it -this included the Duke. Now that Edriss knows it is us; however, he may still use this as another mark of traitor against the Duke at trial. So while pillaging bodies we can decided to tell the duke or not.
DM- What time is it at the end of the battle? Also, would any of the villiage people/the little library have anything for bonus to charisma? -um.... yeah, sorcerer spells are based on that one.... forgot that....


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## AIM-54 (Mar 29, 2004)

If anyone's seen Kaereth's constitution, could they please put it in some ice and save it for him?  Thanks.


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## Laurel (Mar 29, 2004)

*Brain's and 54 slices of american cheese... mmmmmm....*



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> If anyone's seen Kaereth's constitution, could they please put it in some ice and save it for him? Thanks.



If we find some random intelligence should we save it for him too?


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## The_Universe (Mar 29, 2004)

You could take up a collection...if everybody donated a point of intelligence....

O wait.  That won't work.  Because it's im-frickin'-possible!

On another note, the chances of you finding a Cha booster book are approx. 0%.  You might be able to commission the creation of one, however.  

The cheapest Tome of Leadership and Influence (the Cha book) is 27,500.  That's for a +1 Bonus.    

I still need to tell you what you found when you looted the bodies of Edriss's guards.  There's probably some money there, somewhere.  I'll post the treasure, here.


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## The_Universe (Mar 29, 2004)

Tears fill your eyes. 



Not tears of sadness, nor joy. Tears of _pain. _Acrid, black smoke fills the air around you, turning your saviors into dark silhouettes. The tree that had briefly been Kaereth’s sanctuary cracks, hurling ash and cinders into the air around you.



As the enormity of your victory, and the pain of loss sink in completely, you turn your attention to the source of your tears. It has been a long autumn here, just as it was in Thanesrin. With the summer rains long gone, and only light snowfall drifting this way from the Oceanus coast, the fire will soon spread unless something is done. 



L’Aurel, unconcerned with the potential of the flames spreading for the moment, steps toward one of the orcs that had served as Baron Kiva’s honor guard. Quickly picking up one of his Kega’rin, she edges closer to the burning tree. As she gets closer, the trunk cracks again, this time more severely. Teetering for a moment, the tree crashes to the dry, leaf-covered ground. 



Gasping, fearing for Kaereth, she runs through the spreading flames toward his last known position, praying feverishly that he had managed to regain consciousness before it fell. Coughing, smoke filling her lungs, she continues forward, determined to save her friend. Throwing a dirty arm across her face, she presses on. 



Moving closer, two figures resolves out of the smoke. A tall, broad shouldered human with several open wounds and a soot-stained blonde beard limps out of the smoke. His chest heaves, dragging a mostly conscious half-orc from the danger of the flames. Gasping, then coughing, Fraerathir of Aesirinn shouts, “Help me! He weighs more than a horse!” 



L’Aurel steps forward, putting her own narrow shoulder underneath the babbling monk’s armpit. “I not feel good…” Kaereth groans, his usually cheerful greenish features taking on a grey, graven cast. Pulling the monk, who himself is trying feebly to walk out of the flames, the three collapse on a pile of unburning leaves a few yards from the roaring (and now spreading) flames. 



As they collapse, the sun dips completely behind the trees, the last orange sliver of light slowly fading as the light slips further beneath the horizon, casting the forest into shadow, save where the flames rage. 



Seeing Kaereth alive, Arfin and Archonus begin to pull the Baron’s guards out of the pools of quickly congealing blood where they fell, toward Baron Kiva’s finely crafted coach. Grunting with effort, they manage to move the huge orcs to the wagon, but by the time the fourth orc is piled within the wagon, the flames have spread further. 



Moments later, a great shadow passes overhead, and then leaves fly outward as a huge, winged beast flaps its powerful wings, touching down ahead of the wagon. Nearly twice the length of a man in length, the creature is a recent addition to the party. Lion’s eyes peak out from the feathery crest of an eagle’s head, gazing outward with a sort of cool wisdom from behind the wickedly curved golden beak. Long, sharp talons dig into the ground, and the creature lies down, stretching and yawning, then tucking it’s beak under one of its great wings. Apparently ignoring the acrid smoke, the griffon nestles itself close to the warmth of flame. 



Justice leaps off of her mount, and walks briskly toward the spreading inferno. Muttering a quick prayer to the Light, she raises her arms skyward, closing her eyes and setting her mouth into a solemn frown. Light flashes, like tiny sunbursts, around the orange flames of the growing fire, and then you hear a great hissing sound as gallon after gallon of water appears over the rushing flames, changing black, acrid smoke to grey, billowy clouds. 



“I lost him,” she says, sheathing her long, strange sword. “He’s far more powerful than when last we saw him…I fear what resources the King may have to make a fearful traitor like Edriss so powerful. Nevertheless, we must hurry back to the camp. The Light only knows what mischief our former friend is causing in our absence.”



Xath speaks, a high, thin, but strangely elegant voice coming out of a short, buxom dwarf. “Should we worry about the fire?” As she turns to the group, the buxom, dark-skinned dwarf seems to melt away. Revealed is a tall, lithe, fair-skinned elf. 



“Extinguished, I think,” says Archon, standing from a crouch near the smoldering remains of the oak. With his blood-red mask covering his chiseled features, he continues, “I agree with Justice—whatever your friend Edriss has become is clearly dangerous. We cannot expect to treat him as an ally…and he is no doubt ready for us. We may need a distra…”



Before he can finish, Kaereth moans, underscoring your need to return to camp, quickly.



Xath speaks once more, quickly taking charge of the situation, “Korienne will be gathering the refugees even now to hear the edict of Lord Hyrwl. Our actions will probably ensure that Lord Hyrwl is a little late, but we can’t count on that alone. Whatever happens, we need to be there, ready to act!” 



Arfin, looking slightly confused, turns to the elven woman who until recently had been a dwarf of his clan. “Korienne? Lass, who is Korienne?”



Blushing, Xath responds, “A friend, and a potential ally. I’ll tell you more, later. Now, we need to hurry!”



With that, you return to the camp, only to find…


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## Xath (Mar 30, 2004)

*What kind of girl do you take me for?*

Firstly, Xath doesn't blush.  Unless I specifically say she blushes as part of a disguise.

Secondly. Nothing Happened!!

And also, she has 80 minutes of altered selfness.  So, she doesn't transform back until we're safely back at camp, and she's out of sight of prying eyes.  The idea is to have Elf Xath (aka. Caterina D'Ellesar) not to be associated with the party, where as Dwarf Xath (aka. Xath) is associated with the party and wanted by the king.  This way, if the party gets screwed by the trial, someone will still be on the out to assist with a rescue/escape/something that starts out as a plan but than transforms into chaos yet amazingly everything works out in the end.


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## The_Universe (Mar 30, 2004)

I had you change in the narration for literary effect.  You can ignore that (and the blushing) should you so choose.  However, I don't think that there will be anyone of import to see you (who hasn't already) in between now and then.


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## AIM-54 (Mar 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I highly recommend this "Story Hour" thread. http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4912
> 
> It's from a guy's D20 Modern campaign. After the session is done, he writes it up, book-style. I thought that those of you with campaign journals might find this interesting, and it may give you an idea of the type of campaign I'm contemplating running after this one is done.




I have to agree, this thing is tremendously fun to read.  My only qualm with this style of game is that, at least in my experience running military campaigns, the take orders, do mission (no matter the freedom in accomplishing the mission) gets old fast.  I haven't read through the whole thing, so maybe later they get more latitude in connection with a plot (assuming there is one developing).  Just one of the things that occurred to me while reading through it.


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## The_Universe (Mar 30, 2004)

As far as I can tell (because the guy isn't finished writing up the last adventure) it's more a series of vignettes with recurring (and increasingly disturbed/experienced) characters than anything of a connected plot.  

Anything I did would definitely lean more toward the "one long story in several episodes" rather than the begin mission--->crazy stuff happens--->end mission---->advance a year style that the GM in that game has adopted.  

For instance, the FEMA guy would definitely have been a recurring foil in my version...(he's not for the campaign.  Only PCs and a few of the Hoffman Institute personnel are actually recurring characters)


----------



## The_Universe (Mar 30, 2004)

*Treasure!*

Inside the coach (before you burn it) you find a locked chest.  

After Arfin smashes the lock off with his hammer, you open it.  Acid sprays out of the chest, melting Arfin's face off.  Then, a meteor storm.  You're dead.  

Heh.  Just kidding.  

What you really see is a clear spindle gem (WI 67), and a long, slender iron wand that forks into what looks like a tuning fork at the end, with arcane runes all over it (WofS 28 Ch.).  You also see a clear glass bottle with a milky white liquid sloshing within.  On the surface of the bottle is what appears to be a picture of a bull's head. (PofBS).  You see another bottle, this one is not clear.  A relatively small vial, the container (and the stopper) seem to be made of adamantine.  There are no markings on the bottle.  (WI 02).

Below those four items sits a golden, jewel-encrusted scepter (RofR), on top of three tightly tied leather bags.  

Inside one of the bags you find 2000 Gold Pieces.  

Inside another, you find 700 Platinum Pieces.  

Inside the third, you find 8 gems of various sizes.  You'd guess they're worth approximately 1560 Gold Pieces, altogether.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 30, 2004)

Justice, after hoping off her Huge Magical Beast looks at Kareth... walks over to him... she gently places one hand on his forehead and whispers "the light will heal your wounds"... 

(you get 16 HP back... not much but the best Justice can do right now).


----------



## The_Universe (Mar 30, 2004)

I also had a request from Kat and Liz to rewind time a bit, before the fire is extinguished, since the spell that Liz uses may be magic you need.  

Is that okay with everyone?


----------



## The_Universe (Mar 30, 2004)

*Visual Aids*

Below is a rough idea of what the palace at Hyrwl looks like.  The rotunda in the front has three balconies coming from it, one on the second level, one on the third, and one on the fourth that are not pictured, because I added them.  Suck it up.  

Also, there are bridges on the third level that connect the main building of the palace to two other buildings, creating an extensive and ancient palace complex.  

Behind the palace is an ancient stone temple, in the center of a small grove of trees.  In front of the big set of stairs leading into the rotunda sits the town square, a well-manicured patch of grass with a small, freshwater spring roughly in the center.  

If I find something sufficient, I'll post pictures of the adjoining buildings.


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## Laurel (Mar 30, 2004)

*Don't listen to any of my ideas... please!!!*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> I also had a request from Kat and Liz to rewind time a bit, before the fire is extinguished, since the spell that Liz uses may be magic you need.
> 
> Is that okay with everyone?



Well, the spell and the possibility that the wind storm of Justice's beast setting down could spread the fire more   And hey throwing dirt is much more fun then doing it the easy way with spells.  And just cause some of us are almost dead doesn't mean we can't have fun. I think Justice and Xath should mud wrestle (just kidding!)


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## Archon (Mar 31, 2004)

*rage issues.*

it might be a little early to start asking.....BUT, when are we gaming next? i'm looking forward to kicking some _more_ Edr-ASS. 

yeah. i win.

- mik aka "Micky Nic"


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## The_Universe (Mar 31, 2004)

Saturday at 1pm work for everybody?


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## The_Universe (Mar 31, 2004)

*Orcish Kega'rin*

The aforementioned orcish weapon...

There are four of these remaining on the ground, as well.


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## Laurel (Mar 31, 2004)

*Behead them- Behead them!*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> The aforementioned orcish weapon...
> 
> There are four of these remaining on the ground, as well.



Okay first- I am the dark overlord queen so I win

Secondly- One pm Saturday should work for me

Thirdly- If we go by any part of what the universe dictated then L'Aurel has one of the funny sharp pointy things.... Even if not going by the universes will L'Aurel would still go for one as she it would work much better at chopping heads I mean trees then her normal hacking off heads utensil her little Kurki (which is about all she has used it for thus far) J


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## The_Universe (Mar 31, 2004)

http://members.cox.net/dungeonsanddragons/Home%20Page-%20KoA.htm

That's our webpage.  Gertie and I are working on it as I type this.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Mar 31, 2004)

The site looks great at first... but the moment I try to scroll down, it automatically freezes up and it tells me there is an error on the page 

Just thought I'd let you know...

Also...

Justice picks up one of the ork weapons to get a closer look at it... if I had any dice with me, I would roll some knowledge skills to see what I know/can figure out about it... but, i'm at work in the history office and, as such, have no d20s.

Also, Kennon... is it reasonable to say that, when Justice heals Kareth, she notices something *wrong* about him... looking closer, (Liz rolls a knowledge religion check)... I can't roll it right now... but, yeah... any idea what the DC would be to know what the heck is wrong with him...


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## Archon (Mar 31, 2004)

*just 13 or 14 more times guys, i mean it.*

i checked out the site. and you know it's pretty cool en'all, oh, except for the whole "mik-likes-balls" thing. as much as i really do love bouncing, throwing or keeping ballz away, i think the uneducated reader may make false conclussions. call me "crazy". 
anyway, great job Gertie/Kennon. i look forward to [the website] being completely done. and if you guys need a hand with anything, just let me know.
by the way, couldn't you use the other picture of me, i look like _less_ of a numb-tard in [the picture not used]. not that it really matters, i guess,  when you have the slogan "i have a thing for balls."
mik - aka "the whiner"


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## Archon (Mar 31, 2004)

*mug shots.*

oh, and i think the site could use a couple more pictures of Gertie, like any for starters. the same goes for Shark and Kennon.


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## Xath (Mar 31, 2004)

*What I need from you.*

Here's what I need from you.

Session Logs (I think Kat has these)- preferably dated if available

Character Informations- stats, history, pictures, miniature photos, etc.

Your schedules- Under calender, there's a space for everyone's personal weekly shedule.  This way we know what everyone's up to and such.  Only put as much info as you want everyone to know.  The easiest way to send them is to write it in excel, save it as a .pdf file, copy the schedule image as a picture into power point, and save it as a JPEG.  Yes, that's the easiest way.

News- There's a space for a news blurb for each of you.  Just a short paragraph on what's happening with you.


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## The_Universe (Mar 31, 2004)

Yeah--let's relegate Mik's specific proclivity for balls to the quotes page. As you'll notice in the main blurb at the top, I mention that SOMEONE has a fondness for spheroids, but I wouldn't want to give away too much to the casual reader. 

On the subject of pictures: I think we should have headshots of each of us as permanent portion of our personal news. That's handy. Either that, or we should each choose an avatar of some sort, and have another page where our actual physical forms are recorded for posterity. I want a picture of everybody up. The 'avatar' should be a picture of yourself that you like, but I am not opposed to having a "photo gallery" to which we could post pictures of Mik looking like a numb-tard, mutoid, numbtoid, or mutard. 

Lastly, we need to have the picture of shark spooning with Wicket. Or, at least a picture of shark. Maybe one where she is scratching greg's face off, and his eyes are exploding from the allergies...


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## Laurel (Mar 31, 2004)

*Why isn't the dicebane on the site?*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Here's what I need from you.
> 
> Session Logs (I think Kat has these)- preferably dated if available
> 
> ...



um.. no dates and it went from a journal to a story in first person... :-( using what I have though I can do a quick outline. Though dates will be hard and knowing exactly where sessions ended. Also in the outline people will have to add what they remember as there were days I as Kat was absent so those events do not appear in the story. Sorry..... 



But on a cool note the site is awesome!!! And I know there are still little kinks being worked out, but really cool so far  Only can we use the updated picture of the world.... (yes another complaint) I like the one in one square instead of the two circles. -Really minor I know- 



As for food for Sat. night I am going to vote to go out again, as it is a cool complete diversion for that short time.... So Quizno's, Pizza Hut, Subway, Five Guys, Applebee's, great steak and buffet co... oh wait I had a brain meltdown there- erase that last one


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## The_Universe (Mar 31, 2004)

Or we could all cook something.  I have a gas grill that we could use...?  Other than that, my vote will be for Applebees.  The service blows, but the food is pretty good.  And they have sweet, delicious quesadillas.  MMMMMMMMMMM.


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## The_Universe (Mar 31, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> But on a cool note the site is awesome!!! And I know there are still little kinks being worked out, but really cool so far  Only can we use the updated picture of the world.... (yes another complaint) I like the one in one square instead of the two circles. -Really minor I know



Could somebody color one of those, scan it in, and send it to Gertie?  the B&W version is a little hard to read.  Coloring all of the provinces would probably help.

Just a thought.

--Kennon


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## AIM-54 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Sadness...*

I'm unable to gain the full use of the website as it seems to consistently cause some sort of fatal error just by loading up...alas.

As for the food front, I'm pretty flexible.


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## The_Universe (Apr 1, 2004)

Liz has been having a similar problem.  I'm guessing it's a runtime error.  Am I correct?  

Hopefully some of this will stabilize once we get the website completely up and running.  Other than that, I recommend that you try updating windows, and see if that helps.


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## Laurel (Apr 1, 2004)

*me no bard.... me no bard....*

Okay, Kat is not allowed to be secretary/bard ever again!!!   Anyone know exactly when we started playing-- The closest I can figure was the weekend of August 31st, but I wanted to see if anyone had definate dates written down for some reason.
Also- Mik, when exactly did Archonus join the group?


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## The_Universe (Apr 1, 2004)

It was earlier than that.  Because there were a couple of weeks at Brad and Trina's before I started Grad School, and school started the Thursday/Friday before Aug. 31

I think it was closer to the 15th.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 1, 2004)

It was labor day.  That this adventure started at least.  I remember, because Kennon recruited me the Thursday of Orientation, then Saturday I made my character at Wizards and we started playing on Sunday.

Earlier stuff I have no knowledge of and has no bearing on when this all kicked off so far as I know.


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## Archon (Apr 2, 2004)

*beginnings*

Archon joined the story November First.


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## Laurel (Apr 2, 2004)

*date what date*

Umm..... Ethan, Trini and Brad's kid, was born before we starting playing though... and I more ment when in the story did Archon join -but the date is helpful too


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## The_Universe (Apr 2, 2004)

jeremiah was there for the first session, wasn't he?  I think he was.  That means we started playing on Labor Day Weekend.  

To be more specific about Archon's entrance, Archonus joined the group by demanding custody of Jaine Rilmore, AKA Jaine Rhynn, shortly after Justice kicked the crap out Ta'ra Miagee (who, at the time, she thought was Lord Miagee).  Before he could gain cutody of the wanted criminal, Lord Miagee requested a private audience with the young caravan leader, and a few of you found out that she apparently shared some sort of quality with Lord Miagee's former Emperor.  

Does that help?


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## Xath (Apr 2, 2004)

*Website*

I uploaded what i did on the website today here.

And now it is time for bed.


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## Archon (Apr 2, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I uploaded what i did on the website today here.
> 
> And now it is time for bed.





very cool.


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## The_Universe (Apr 2, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> very cool.



 Lemme guess?  No work for Mik, today?  No tables at Denny's to bus?


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## Laurel (Apr 2, 2004)

*attempt one!*

Okay attempt one at a journal/log -yes I know BIG gaps but hopefully with everyone's input we can correct the many mistakes  Days that have a time I know we played, but maybe not what happened in game that day… L Sorry…



Labor Day & The beginning (Sept. 1st, 2003)
- Thainsport tavern through the jail where we get to say hi and learn each others names
- Supplied by Kennon:
*Brad/Brad* - an alder (dark elf) mage
*Greg/Arfin* - a drunken dwarven mercenary from Arutha’s Forge
*Jeremiah/Kalith* –quite half-orc monk from parts unknown
*Kat/L’Aurel* –half-elf ranger from the Druid’s Forest on Prydein
*Kennon/DM *- The Universe
*Liz/Justice* –human paladin from across the eastern mountains
*Tim/Edriss* - a shadowy half-elven noble from the city of Odir
*Trini/Selura* - half-elven bard from the southern coast of Xadarra

Sept. 7
- No game, but I think we tried to go to the medieval festival….

Sept. 14th
- Jail to the road south

Sept. 21
- Meeting with a metal snake! Takes the whole session to get through that one… wow bad rolling

Sept. 28
- I was not there for that weekend, so not sure if we played…..

Oct. 5
- Road south again and finally meet with the caravan, get shot at then get attacked

Oct. 12
- I was out of town, so not sure if we played

Oct. 19
- I again was not around, so…

Oct. 26th
- take a prisoner form the fight the night before and meet Mr. Miagi and people. Also have ‘an experience’ with a magical portal

Nov. 2nd (4pm)
- Welcome *Mik/Archonus* –a human loner and talon justice who is cute minus the blue star birthmark over his eye
- Leave the caravan convince Archonus to come along, meet dragons, defeat dragons, go further west see evil port but do nothing

Nov. 9th (around noon)
- go back to road, Oh no people missing lets go find
- Hmmmm now that we have them where to go- oh, monastery that is being attacked
- Loose Brad I get Brad II

Nov. 16
- rescue of monastery part II –see murder of abbess 
- After fight and fire see dungeon… lets look around for hours!
- loose Trini and Brad
- Tim changes characters (now farathier)

Nov. 23rd and 30th 
- Thanksgiving Break

Dec. 7
- morning at the monastery then off to follow Archonus to save Jaine
- get to tavern around Thainsport and Arfin becomes a diplomat
- How to get into the city 

Dec. 14
- Welcome *Gerti/Xath*- a dark dwarven brad in the service of Ambassador for Clan Thunderheart in Thainsport
- Xath who helps team I into the city
- then returns to the tavern to get team 2 out…. Um loose 10 minutes and utter confusion

Dec 21, 28, & Jan 4
- Winter Break –Kennon and Liz get married!!!!

Jan 10
- Save Jaine from execution with help of Woodshadow and daughter

Jan 17
- Split up to save everyone
- Team I Archonus and Xath to stronghold then to sewers
- Team 2 to city watch and then sewers
- Everyone in sewers… EW!

Jan 24
- Get to Amastatian Temple to get clean and burn clothes
- Go to tavern 1 and have to kill some guards
- Rest at tavern 2 till morning

Jan 31
- leave tavern and get to docks and ship

Feb. 8th (10am)
- leave on ship, get stopped, get out of Thainsport!

Feb 14 
- out at sea…. Oh no attack…. Safe… oh no attack again….. run to Oceanis

Feb. 21
- Reach Oceanis and report to navy and find duke, guys get shopping done J

Feb. 28th (1pm)
- Leave Duke’s place find group get back to ship… oh no evil army attacking!

March 6th & 11th
- Xath & L’aurel run off to get duke’s now dead body
- Others run around giving alarm and killing bad things

Mar 13th (2pm)
- everyone meets at Apectin Temple
- Um Xath in new body from resurrection
- Leave city… survivors to Hywrl
- Get there gates closed so lets go find home of woodshadow, find him almost dead… then he’s dead after some last words.

March 20
- Out of town, but everyone still got together for history of Ares game

Mar 27th (1pm)
- funeral for Link
- a few days of getting things done
- L’Aurel, Farathier, Arfin and Kareth go to welcome Edriss to Hywrl- by attempting to kill him J

April 3rd (1pm)
-Maybe save duke from trial, and kill edriss-- then WIN DnD


----------



## Laurel (Apr 2, 2004)

um.. when did Gerti (not Xath) start playing... weekend of December 7th????


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 2, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> um.. when did Gerti (not Xath) start playing... weekend of December 7th????



  I believe Gertie came to the Bauman apartment for the first time on the weekend of Dec. 7.  She started playing the weekend of Dec. 14.  After that, Kennon and Liz went to SD to get married.  

On a completely different note, this may be of interest to the gang: http://www.enworld.org/forums/announcement.php?f=3&announcementid=43


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## The_Universe (Apr 2, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> um.. when did Gerti (not Xath) start playing... weekend of December 7th????



  I believe Gertie came to the Bauman apartment for the first time on the weekend of Dec. 7.  She started playing the weekend of Dec. 14.  After that, Kennon and Liz went to SD to get married.  

On a completely different note, this may be of interest to the gang: http://www.enworld.org/forums/announcement.php?f=3&announcementid=43


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## Xath (Apr 4, 2004)

*Questions, Questions, etc.*

Alright, so some questions need to be answered and some stuff done.  Some of these are requests from Kennon, and some of them are my own.

Firstly, please send me the pictures you want to be used on the website: pictures of you, your character, your miniature, etc.

Secondly, also please send me your character sheets, small blurbs about your character, your news, and any character history you have.  Whoever has the quotes, could you send those too please?  And anything else you think you would be cool on the website.

Now for the ingame stuff.

What, in general, did you do during your 5 weeks of down time?  There will be no "I would have done that!" after we start playing.  Either you did or you didn't.

Let's plan to the point, how we are going to get to Dwarfsport.  We are taking Captain Seaborne, his crew (approx 20 men) and ourselves through country we know to be inhabited by Black Orcs.  We have 2 mounts, Thane and Yoshi.  

So, are we finding mounts for everyone?  If so, someone is going to need to teach the sailors how to ride horses, and we're going to have to find mounts for all of us.

We have 3 options for paths to Dwarfsport.  We can make our way northwest across land to the river and attempt to make our way down the river on our boat.  This is going to be difficult with mounts, especially Yoshi.  

Or we can cut our way directly across land cross-country northwest to Dwarfsport.  This would be dangerous to the various NPC's traveling with us, as well as take a long time.  Thirdly, we can go directly west across-country until we hit the main road between Oceanus and Dwarfsport.  

Any way we choose, we're going to have to make contingencies, because we're not just traveling with us, we have others to protect.

So, lemme know what you guys are thinking so far, then we can work together to come up with a plan.


----------



## Archon (Apr 4, 2004)

Kennon was talking to me this morning about how we need a leader..

I believe that 2 of us are truly capable of that... Justice and Xath...

I am more than willing to serve that position... to the point that I will spend quite a bit of time outside of the game learning all the military stuff that Justice would actually know... so that we truly have a leader that can make combat plans and execute them so that we are running around like a bunch of blind idiots..
In essence, to aviod the "gong show" that we become from time to time...
Generally, Justice is made to be a leader... Liz has trouble, though becuase _I_ don't have the knowledge... I will acquire it if you all so desire...

Let me know what you guys think...

Xath has the potential to be the leader, as well... she has the abilities... but, the question is whether or not that is the direction that she wants to take her character... 

So--those are my two cents for the moment...
I'll be back soon with "What Justice Does" during the 5 week gap...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 4, 2004)

*Above...*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> Kennon was talking to me this morning about how we need a leader..
> 
> I believe that 2 of us are truly capable of that... Justice and Xath...
> 
> ...





The above post was Justice... Mik was still signed in on my PC... sorry...


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks Gertie!  

Other things:  

You need a leader.  Democracy is a failure.  Accept it, and appoint your dictator-for-life.  I beg you to find a leader among you by the next time we play.

There was a lot of general negativity yesterday among the crew.  I don't know if there's something I can do to alleviate that, but if there is, please tell me.  It's supposed to be a fun game.  Let's all have fun, shall we?  

However, please remember that I do not put in an easy solution for everything.  Some things have no solution.  Evil NPCs are Evil (and aren't going to bend over and take it when you think you have them beat).  Good NPCs are good, but have their own interests.  PLEASE don't get angry at me for not making things crystal clear.  It's not a computer game, so there's not necessarily a way out of every room you're in, or every trap you're in.  Yesterday presented a bunch of moral dilemmas with no solution.  That was intentional.  What you do with them helps make your characters interesting.  It makes the story better.  Just keep that in mind in the future, because I'm trying to have fun with all of this, too.  

[Rant]Lastly, despite lots of in-game reasons for the characters to have become closer to eachother, several of your PCs seem determined to remain loners.  That's a valid character choice.  However, I'd like to ask (beg?) that you not let it cripple the game.  As is natural, all of the characters came into the game with different pasts, and different goals.  By now, those should have faded.  They haven't.  They need to, or it's only going to get less fun from here on out.  

Anyway, I love this game.  It's one of my favorite things to do.  But it tends to tarnish the experience when at any given time, at least one player is contradicting me, arguing with me, or complaining about the game in general, and sometimes all three are happening at once.[/end Rant]

Game=fun=candy corn and flowers.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 4, 2004)

*A Little Beef*

I think one of the main problems we have forming any sort of "team" out of our "group" is that we have no common purpose.

We all have reasons that are somewhat interconnected but we are not working for one solid thing-- we go on little side quests in hopes that they will let us get back to what the individual character wants...

We really need to work on having one solid TEAM goals instead of just trying to utilize the group to get what one individual wants...
There are certain things that we all know... the blue star is bad... stuff like that.
However, I think that many of us are overlooking the massive danger that is lurking just a few miles down the road from Hyrwl... it's called the Dragon Army and we really need to be thinking about that and trying to find out how that, the king, and the blue star are all connected so that we can form team ideals, team goals, and *gasp* team plans that attempt to thwart the connectivity of the Evil.

As such, Justice is going to spend a lot of her time during the 5 week gap asking all of you questions... learning about your pasts... learning everything she can about you... all the while sharing her life with you.

I know that some of you will be harder to get to know than others (namely, Tim)... but, we need to form a team... and, I'm determined to see that happen...

So-- be looking for emails from me throughout the week and, if you see me on messenger, IM me and we'll get some of this Role Playing done so that next week, our team can do some Roll Playing and rip up some zombies!

(Messenger: jedi_ewok_princess@hotmail.com, AIM: K3Jade)


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## AIM-54 (Apr 4, 2004)

*Be forewarned venting, malice and vitriol ahead....*

Just a few thoughts on everything that is wrong:

1) d20 is a broken, broken system.  In recent debates with my friends back home I've tried to defend its merits, but after yesterday and looking ahead to further levelling it just looks more and more moronic.  The idea of adding anything over +10 and maybe, maybe +12 to a d20 roll is the height of STUPIDITY.  Honestly, WHAT THE  IS THE POINT?  The power curve is stupidly broken.  There's no reason that a DM has to come up with bigger and nastier monsters just to try and pretend that there's still danger in the game.  At least in this one, that aspect is gone.  There's no reason to fear.  Several characters have tremendous amounts of hit points etc and if you hit 0 you're not dead anyway, you can just stabilize and come back.  Whoop de ing do.

2)Moral stupidity is annoying.  Play a character not a ing alignment.  I'm all for moral dilemma's, but don't be a moron about them.  When half the characters get marginalized 3/4 of the time because a couple of characters have a moral qualm if an innocent flea gets a scratch, it just gets dumb.  If I want to listen to/be involved with moral treatises, there are better fora for it.  I don't care if you want to play the exalted of the exalted, these characters represent humans or human types, and are therefore fallible.  Letting alignment dictate your actions, other than as a general guideline is annoying, unnecessary, stupid and the waste of everyone else's time who's trying to have fun.  When 6 of 7 characters are fighter classes, doing everything to avoid violence IS AMONG THE STUPIDEST THINGS OF ALL TIME.  For christ's sake we chose to play these characters BECAUSE WE LIKE TO FIGHT AND YES KILL STUFF!!!!  

3)  Quit whining at the DM every time things don't go your way or you don't like a rule interpretation or you're just having a bad day.  It's annoying, it wastes everyone elses time and it makes THE GAME less fun.

4)  This group, for a bunch of supposedly exalted characters has yet to, as far as I can remember, do anything I would remotely call heroic.  We are very good at running away in a confused mass, though.  This is sure why I signed up to play this game.

5) d20 is a broken, broken system.

I have, at least, discovered why I've never played through a campaign in this system though.  Once you hit about 10th level it just starts to suck.  Maybe over the coming hiatus I'll be able to find something redeeming in this thing.  Maybe not.  I like my character, the story is intriguing, but I'll be damned if the party's done a damned thing of interest since we left the monastery.  All this sudden flurry of activity to try and rescue this thing strikes me as ridiculously funny.  If it takes half the game and characters can become as powerful as they have through the vast amount of incompetence, indecision and disunity as this group has, one wonders why we'd bother now.

I'm gonna quit now before I alienate anyone any further, but it sure as hell felt good to say all that.  Now I'm going to go kill electrons in cold blood in the hope that it will help me vent the rest of this burning, burning rage.


----------



## Xath (Apr 5, 2004)

It seems that most of the problems you speak of here have to do with me, so I will do my best to answer them.



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Just a few thoughts on everything that is wrong:




Firstly, just because you are frusterated with aspects of the game doesn't mean they're wrong.  If you have problems with something that is going on in or out of game, why don't you say something when we're together?  Maybe the reason the "wrong" things keep happening is because no one knows how much they frusterate you.



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> 1) d20 is a broken, broken system.  In recent debates with my friends back home I've tried to defend its merits, but after yesterday and looking ahead to further levelling it just looks more and more moronic.  The idea of adding anything over +10 and maybe, maybe +12 to a d20 roll is the height of STUPIDITY.  Honestly, WHAT THE  IS THE POINT?  The power curve is stupidly broken.  There's no reason that a DM has to come up with bigger and nastier monsters just to try and pretend that there's still danger in the game.  At least in this one, that aspect is gone.  There's no reason to fear.  Several characters have tremendous amounts of hit points etc and if you hit 0 you're not dead anyway, you can just stabilize and come back.  Whoop de ing do.




No system is perfect.  If you want a system that is completely realistic, than you shouldn't be playing a fantasy game.  It kind of defeats the purpose.  As far as adding numbers to skill checks, for sake of arguement let's say a 3rd level spell gives you a +30 bonus to, oh, i don't know, a bluff check.  Magic is powerful.  But the ability to be extremely good at your area of focus is consistant in any game I've ever seen.  Xath happens to be very persuasive. Kaereth happens to be incredibly good at both offensive and defensive fighting styles.  Who wants to be in a fantasy situation where they can't excel at anything?  Maybe this is what makes a roleplaying system good for you.  I happen to like the one I'm in.  



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> 2)Moral stupidity is annoying.  Play a character not a ing alignment.  I'm all for moral dilemma's, but don't be a moron about them.  When half the characters get marginalized 3/4 of the time because a couple of characters have a moral qualm if an innocent flea gets a scratch, it just gets dumb.  If I want to listen to/be involved with moral treatises, there are better fora for it.  I don't care if you want to play the exalted of the exalted, these characters represent humans or human types, and are therefore fallible.  Letting alignment dictate your actions, other than as a general guideline is annoying, unnecessary, stupid and the waste of everyone else's time who's trying to have fun.  When 6 of 7 characters are fighter classes, doing everything to avoid violence IS AMONG THE STUPIDEST THINGS OF ALL TIME.  For christ's sake we chose to play these characters BECAUSE WE LIKE TO FIGHT AND YES KILL STUFF!!!!




I, though possibly inadvertantly, find this statement to be extremely insulting, though i respect it as being your opinion.  I, although, object to your extreme generalization.  Last night alot of focus was put on the fact that Xath wouldn't be exalted if she killed Edriss while he was helpless.  Do not mistake that for the reasoning behind anything I did last night.  The Only exalted ability that Xath has is 1 spell that helps all of the fighters become better at fighting.  It doesn't really help her, it helps you.  I do for Xath what I do for any character I portray, whether it be onstage or in a roleplaying game.  Because Xath is continually changing, I do more.  I spend approximately 3 hours a week writing character history for Xath so that there is a reason behind every choice she makes.  Please do Not mistake this for playing towards alignment, because you know what?  If Xath's alignment changes, it doesn't matter.  It's already changed once.  You know why she had a moral qualm with killing Edriss?  Because she'd only seen the guy twice.  Both times he was agressive were because we had started it.  If it had been someone like Nightgrove, she wouldn't have had any qualms.  If it had been the Bluestar, or an agent of the Bluestar, no problem.   However, all evidence that I have seen shows that most likely the King, and therefore Edriss, are allied with the evils of the west, not the Bluestar.  Being of evil doesn't warrent a death sentence.  Nor should being good necessarily allow you to live.  Xath is fallible, she hesitated in killing Edriss, because she abhors senseless violence.  Had Edriss been actively trying to kill one of you, she would have stepped right in.  But every time, he'd fought us, it was our fault.  Arfin may have hated him, but he had saved Arfin's life. No one has yet to tell me of any horrific deed they knew Edriss to perpetrate without instigation.  Maybe you know of something.  I don't.  You say that characters should be flawed, but moral dilemmas are stupid and annoying.  It seems to be a contradictory statement.       



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> 3)  Quit whining at the DM every time things don't go your way or you don't like a rule interpretation or you're just having a bad day.  It's annoying, it wastes everyone elses time and it makes THE GAME less fun.




I'll respond to a specific example of this.  I don't know if this was the instance you were refering to.  I was kind of upset when the plan we had spent so much time working on was pulled apart by a piece of information that our characters would of known but we did not.  We then, were not allowed to replan.  But you know what?  After the game, we sat down and talked about the reasons why we thought what we did.  And we worked it out in a mature fashion.  This group is by far the least whiny I have ever had the pleasure of playing with.  Yesterday, everyone was a little strained.  I have confidence that we are all sophisticated enough to work through our issues. 



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> 4)  This group, for a bunch of supposedly exalted characters has yet to, as far as I can remember, do anything I would remotely call heroic.  We are very good at running away in a confused mass, though.  This is sure why I signed up to play this game.




Firstly, your sarcasm does nothing to prove your point, it just makes you sound like a jerk, and makes it difficult for me not to become offensive in my responses.  If you have an issue with the way the characters work, say something.  You often remark how you never say anything in game, maybe you should.  I understand that you choose to play Kaereth's low intelligence in a way that he doesn't speak in a sophisticated way.  But his wisdom could be a guiding force amongst us.  Don't knock it until you try it.



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> 5) d20 is a broken, broken system.




You've said that already.  This does nothing to further your point, but instead makes me less inclined to believe you.



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I have, at least, discovered why I've never played through a campaign in this system though.  Once you hit about 10th level it just starts to suck.  Maybe over the coming hiatus I'll be able to find something redeeming in this thing.  Maybe not.  I like my character, the story is intriguing, but I'll be damned if the party's done a damned thing of interest since we left the monastery.  All this sudden flurry of activity to try and rescue this thing strikes me as ridiculously funny.  If it takes half the game and characters can become as powerful as they have through the vast amount of incompetence, indecision and disunity as this group has, one wonders why we'd bother now.




I joined this campaign right after the incedent in the monestary, and I don't really know what happened before that.  Maybe that's your point.  But I know that the one thing we've been searching for for a long time is a unifying purpose.  And we've finally found one.  You made the point yourself that no one is perfect.  Everyone is fallible.  Our characters are fallable and there's no reason why we should emerge from any situation without a few scrapes and bruises.  One thing's for sure, this negativity does nothing to help.



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I'm gonna quit now before I alienate anyone any further, but it sure as hell felt good to say all that.  Now I'm going to go kill electrons in cold blood in the hope that it will help me vent the rest of this burning, burning rage.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

I suggest that we all take this down a notch.  Perhaps 2.  Perhaps 10.  

As the DM, I can say with some assurance, as the arbiter of the system, that the system is not broken.  +35 to a check does not break the system--in fact, this is one of the areas that I think the system has shined in.  Once you get to medium/high level, you should be able to basically shape the reality of the peasantry.  Of course they'll believe you!  Even the least powerful among you could kick their @$$'s with one (or two) hands behind your backs.  I like the D20 system, as it is easily the friendliest system to the DM in existence.  Handy. 

As for the lack of character deaths--that is entirely my doing.  I give you hero points (not a real rule) and let you stabilize on a Fort. Save DC 15 (normally, a 10% chance every round).  I put the advantage in the character's hands, because I want it to be a BIG DEAL when one of you bites it.   

Now that I have said my piece in defending my beloved D20 system, I want to encourage you all to take a deep breath, take a step back, and think about what you're arguing about.  There can be no winners, only bruised friendships coming out of this one.  Agree to disagree if it's necessary, but a point-by-point rebuttal helps no one.  

The characterization of the campaign as a series of failures is not a fair one.  The characterization of the characters as unheroic is similarly unfair.  I have the records.  I have the notes.  Saving dwarves being slowly tortured certainly counts.  Guiding the refugees out of Oceanus certainly counts.  Furthermore, insulting the game insults the work that I put into it.  And believe me, I put a lot of work into it.  

Anyway, we're all friends (or at least, I hope we are).  Losing friends/players over this is even more asinine than losing friends/players over who's house we play at.  If there's no way to salvage it, then let's quit and move on.  Does it really need to be "salvaged?"  No.  

Bah.  Angry DM.  Sorry.  The Universe is shutting up.  Just remember (please) who spends the week preparing for the game, and who it hurts to insult that preparation.

Now, let's knife some hobos (in real life), make some plans (in game), and get on with life (in both).


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## AIM-54 (Apr 5, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> It seems that most of the problems you speak of here have to do with me, so I will do my best to answer them.




  Actually that's not true at all, but if that's what you choose to believe, so be it.




			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Firstly, just because you are frusterated with aspects of the game doesn't mean they're wrong.  If you have problems with something that is going on in or out of game, why don't you say something when we're together?  Maybe the reason the "wrong" things keep happening is because no one knows how much they frusterate you.




   Yep, last time I checked when I get frustrated, it generally means everything is peachy keen.




			
				Xath said:
			
		

> No system is perfect.  If you want a system that is completely realistic, than you shouldn't be playing a fantasy game.  It kind of defeats the purpose.  As far as adding numbers to skill checks, for sake of arguement let's say a 3rd level spell gives you a +30 bonus to, oh, i don't know, a bluff check.  Magic is powerful.  But the ability to be extremely good at your area of focus is consistant in any game I've ever seen.  Xath happens to be very persuasive. Kaereth happens to be incredibly good at both offensive and defensive fighting styles.  Who wants to be in a fantasy situation where they can't excel at anything?  Maybe this is what makes a roleplaying system good for you.  I happen to like the one I'm in.




  I never claimed there was a perfect system.  I'm expressing an opinion.  I'm expressing flaws in the current system.  Game mechanics can often be improved, hence house rules.  I just think there's better ways then giving people bonuses for everything under the sun.  There's also ways to excel without requiring stupid high numbers for everything.  This systems clearly designed for inordinately powerful, "heroic" gaming.  I'm learning that I prefer a different style with a slightly lesser power curve.  That's neither here nor there.  Like I said, I'm venting.  I tried to make that pretty clear.  But when I see that next level I'm going to be able to attack 3 times a round at a +18 bonus, I just wonder what I'm playing for?  Like I mentioned, the danger factor just goes away.  There's less tension and I'm not as entertained, nor as involved in the story.  It clearly matches up with how you like to game and that's fine.  It seems to match up with how the rest of the group likes to game.  That's also fine.  I like the group and have enjoyed playing with you guys mostly, so I'm willing to suck it up and deal with a system that to me, in a word, sucks.  Maybe that's no longer enough and I need to go out and find a group that better fits me.  I don't know.





			
				Xath said:
			
		

> I, though possibly inadvertantly, find this statement to be extremely insulting, though i respect it as being your opinion.  I, although, object to your extreme generalization.  Last night alot of focus was put on the fact that Xath wouldn't be exalted if she killed Edriss while he was helpless.  Do not mistake that for the reasoning behind anything I did last night.  The Only exalted ability that Xath has is 1 spell that helps all of the fighters become better at fighting.  It doesn't really help her, it helps you.  I do for Xath what I do for any character I portray, whether it be onstage or in a roleplaying game.  Because Xath is continually changing, I do more.  I spend approximately 3 hours a week writing character history for Xath so that there is a reason behind every choice she makes.  Please do Not mistake this for playing towards alignment, because you know what?  If Xath's alignment changes, it doesn't matter.  It's already changed once.  You know why she had a moral qualm with killing Edriss?  Because she'd only seen the guy twice.  Both times he was agressive were because we had started it.  If it had been someone like Nightgrove, she wouldn't have had any qualms.  If it had been the Bluestar, or an agent of the Bluestar, no problem.   However, all evidence that I have seen shows that most likely the King, and therefore Edriss, are allied with the evils of the west, not the Bluestar.  Being of evil doesn't warrent a death sentence.  Nor should being good necessarily allow you to live.  Xath is fallible, she hesitated in killing Edriss, because she abhors senseless violence.  Had Edriss been actively trying to kill one of you, she would have stepped right in.  But every time, he'd fought us, it was our fault.  Arfin may have hated him, but he had saved Arfin's life. No one has yet to tell me of any horrific deed they knew Edriss to perpetrate without instigation.  Maybe you know of something.  I don't.  You say that characters should be flawed, but moral dilemmas are stupid and annoying.  It seems to be a contradictory statement.




  This statement was not just directed at you, but clearly that's how you've taken it.  Now I know more than I ever cared to about the inner thought processes of a fictional character.  I'd also like to say that I never said moral dilemmas are annoying.  In fact, I said I'm all for them.  I just said don't be a moron about them.  Like making moral dilemma's where they aren't necessary and slow down game play.  Having a discussion about morality and alignment for 45 minutes before taking any action is annoying.  At least in my opinion.  Maybe some people like that, but there's a limit to my tolerance for it.  That's been crossed almost every session we've played.  Sometimes you have to drop the characters a bit to further game play, because this is, after all, not a play, but a game.  My point is, we don't need to have intense discussions on whether or not Xath would find a certain character evil before we can get to the important part, namely, kicking evil's ass.




			
				Xath said:
			
		

> I'll respond to a specific example of this.  I don't know if this was the instance you were refering to.  I was kind of upset when the plan we had spent so much time working on was pulled apart by a piece of information that our characters would of known but we did not.  We then, were not allowed to replan.  But you know what?  After the game, we sat down and talked about the reasons why we thought what we did.  And we worked it out in a mature fashion.  This group is by far the least whiny I have ever had the pleasure of playing with.  Yesterday, everyone was a little strained.  I have confidence that we are all sophisticated enough to work through our issues.




  That particular issue did not even cross my mind.  My point still stands.  We don't need to try and "beat" Kennon every single time he does something that confounds our plans, takes advantage of forgotten information, etc.  That's part of the fun, is it not?




			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Firstly, your sarcasm does nothing to prove your point, it just makes you sound like a jerk, and makes it difficult for me not to become offensive in my responses.  If you have an issue with the way the characters work, say something.  You often remark how you never say anything in game, maybe you should.  I understand that you choose to play Kaereth's low intelligence in a way that he doesn't speak in a sophisticated way.  But his wisdom could be a guiding force amongst us.  Don't knock it until you try it.




  First, this is a message board.  Second, this is a message board for a rather silly game.  Whether you think I make a point or not is irrelevant.  Like I said, I'm venting.  I put that at that top, so there'd be no mistake.  My favorite part was when I designed a sophisticated, tactically sound plan for a fighting retreat, but then everyone got worried about the peasants so that something I invested a lot of time and energy and, indeed, derived a lot of pleasure in designing (because I like the military stuff and I understand that not everyone does, but this seemed like a good opportunity to play with that, in-game without derailing anything).  Maybe I'm just frustrated that I can't do that so much with Kaereth because of his intellectual limitations and that stuff is a lot of the reason why I play these games.  But I guess as long as the NPC peasants got out all right and their town was captured without the semblance of resistance...
  Your high and mightiness is also taking away from your points.  Just so long as we're taking shots at each other.




			
				Xath said:
			
		

> You've said that already.  This does nothing to further your point, but instead makes me less inclined to believe you.




  See above.  Also note at the top, it said venting.  And seeing as how it's an opinion and you've already noted your devotion to the system, clearly I'm not trying sway you.  Actually, I've surrendered to the notion of swaying anyone in this group that there might actually exist other systems that could, at times, be as much fun or even preferable to d20.  But I'm the heathen here.  And that's fine.  But allow me my God-given right to vent frustration from time to time, even to the point of repeating myself.  I may be doing it as much to get it off my chest than to make a point with the inconvertible.





			
				Xath said:
			
		

> I joined this campaign right after the incedent in the monestary, and I don't really know what happened before that.  Maybe that's your point.  But I know that the one thing we've been searching for for a long time is a unifying purpose.  And we've finally found one.  You made the point yourself that no one is perfect.  Everyone is fallible.  Our characters are fallable and there's no reason why we should emerge from any situation without a few scrapes and bruises.  One thing's for sure, this negativity does nothing to help.




  Please, do tell what this purpose is.  The liege blades?  Defeating evil?  Wondering if it's okay to kill people that are attacking us if, after all, they're just doing their jobs?  It seems to be that we more have a bunch of goals which we can then muddle through, somehow gaining experience and otherwise making fools of ourselves after which, we will likely, through the DM's grace, acquiring the blades and defeating evil through unbridled incompetence.  Heck, maybe it's all my fault.  Clearly, there is more I could have done.  Like I said, we'll see how I'm feeling after this hiatus.  I may just be done with this whole game for awhile.
  Also, please stop thinking this has everything to do with you.  You are not the catalyst for any of this, beyond the 20th century morality you delight in taking back to a medieval fantasy game.  It's a whole lot of stuff and probably some stuff which really has nothing to do with any of you, as unfair as that is.  Such is life.
  On the contrary, this negativity has been very beneficial to me.  See, I vented.  I feel better.  Everyone knows where I stand.  They can like it or hate it, I don't care, but I'm all set for now.


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I suggest that we all take this down a notch.  Perhaps 2.  Perhaps 10.




  That's no fun.  



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> As the DM, I can say with some assurance, as the arbiter of the system, that the system is not broken.  +35 to a check does not break the system--in fact, this is one of the areas that I think the system has shined in.  Once you get to medium/high level, you should be able to basically shape the reality of the peasantry.  Of course they'll believe you!  Even the least powerful among you could kick their @$$'s with one (or two) hands behind your backs.  I like the D20 system, as it is easily the friendliest system to the DM in existence.  Handy.




  As an experienced gamer, I can tell you that it is broken.  But that is neither here nor there.  You will never convince me and I will never convince you.  It's a matter of what you like in a game and I've found other systems that are better suited for what I like in a game.  We all know where we stand on this and, thus far, I've dealt with it.  But right now I'm feeling a little d20 fatigue.  And I personally don't believe we should be able to "shape the reality" of the peasantry.  Virtual automatic success just isn't that much fun in my book.  Especially when I see next level or two I'm going to be able to do 3 attacks at my maximum attack bonus and crap.  But I guess learning what I like and dislike is a valuable lesson of this game.



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> As for the lack of character deaths--that is entirely my doing.  I give you hero points (not a real rule) and let you stabilize on a Fort. Save DC 15 (normally, a 10% chance every round).  I put the advantage in the character's hands, because I want it to be a BIG DEAL when one of you bites it.




I understand this, but if there's no danger and I "die" just about every session, if not more, and get healed up almost instantly with little to no consequences, it just dulls the edge.  When I GM I don't like to kill characters either and, indeed, am probably nicer than my comments here might suggest, but again, when I GM it's about making it fun for the players and there are certain groups that will accept and enjoy a more lethal game.  Clearly this is not one.  



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Now that I have said my piece in defending my beloved D20 system, I want to encourage you all to take a deep breath, take a step back, and think about what you're arguing about.  There can be no winners, only bruised friendships coming out of this one.  Agree to disagree if it's necessary, but a point-by-point rebuttal helps no one.




Who's arguing?  I've been pretty clear that this is all venting.    



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> The characterization of the campaign as a series of failures is not a fair one.  The characterization of the characters as unheroic is similarly unfair.  I have the records.  I have the notes.  Saving dwarves being slowly tortured certainly counts.  Guiding the refugees out of Oceanus certainly counts.  Furthermore, insulting the game insults the work that I put into it.  And believe me, I put a lot of work into it.




Yes, some of us actually attend our classes. 

I never intended to insult the game or the work you put into it.  You are an excellent DM and have done an admirable job with an often moronic group of characters, none of whom would survive in the real world.  But that's what we have fantasy for after all, anyway.  The point is, I'm beginning to understand where my fatigue with this game after a certain point comes from.  And that's no one elses issue.  Maybe some of this is simply attributable to the bitch of a semester I've had and that's now getting worse.  Which is also not your fault, but I usually associate friends with people I can vent to and say whatever I want with the understanding that I am just venting.  But perhaps "friend" is too strong a word at this point in time.  Whatever.  Like I said, this hiatus will probably be good for me and maybe I can find redeemable qualities in this silly game again.


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## Archon (Apr 5, 2004)

*perspective*

what's goin' on? you guys are being silly. don't fight here. i'd rather you not fight at all, but hey, beggars can't be choosers. i care about you guys too much to see this go down. if we can't all hug and be friends, then we need to put EVERYTHING on the table and say "why" we can't hug and be friends. and i know it's a lot easier to be angry and say things on the "interweb" that we don't really mean. so lets stop, and think about this. 
it's a game, but it's also a story. a story all of us have worked hard on and shared in. 
so let's be cool. everybody, be cool. and let's enjoy the time we get to spend together. and hey, if a cool story comes out of it too, bonus.
high fives and loving head-butts all around. 
-mik aka "puddin' head"


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## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

Mik's post is a good idea.  Also, Kat's post is a good idea.  

*Head butt o' love*


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## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

> 6) Ask the duke and any other leader types to send word/proclomation that Link forgave the high alder –they may be allies who will fight with us- since now they can make the correct choice and be on the winning side!





The Universe hadn't thought of that, in exactly those terms.  Extra special good idea.  My recommendation?  In addition to the Phoenix banner, you maybe need a Woodsahdow banner.  Rebellions often depend on the margianalized, and High Alder are nothing if not that.  There are other margianilized parts of the populace as well, but I'll make you all think of those.


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## Xath (Apr 5, 2004)

*My Apology*

I'm sorry I was such a butt-munch in my response.  I hadn't had the greatest day, and reading that post really got me riled up.  I respect your right to vent.  I also realize that one of the reasons I was so upset is because I despise talking about matters like feelings over text.  Its too easy to misinterpret, which I think I did on several points.  

You guys are the best group of people I've ever roleplayed with.  And I won't say anymore because when I write it, it looks sappy.  And I try not to be sappy whenever possible.

Anyway...I'm sorry.

-Gertie the electrocuted

Hey, ENworld apparently does not believe in daylight savings time.


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## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

OOOh!  OOOH!  be sappy!  I want to see it!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 5, 2004)

*Agreement*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> OOOh!  OOOH!  be sappy!  I want to see it!




I agree...

And, snaps to Gertie. 

Let's all move on and game like good little nerds!


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## Xath (Apr 5, 2004)

*Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?*

Where are those spirit blades now?

Aldersblade high in the hands of lost hero- that would be Link Woodshadow's sword, which as far as we know, is gone.

Mansblade in the Lichlord's Keep- That would be with the Bluestar

Dwarvenblade in the lost stone halls- Possibly Dwarven Sylvannus, which were lost to the forces of the Bluestar almost 40 years ago, possibly somewhere else.

Sendersblade in Lady Shadow's tomb- Tiamat is Lady Shadow.  She died on the Isle of Mourning (Mordred's Isle) but who knows where her tomb is.  Oberon and Tiamat were believed to have killed each other in divine battle in 2 BL.  However, Oberon didn't die, and the prophecy suggests Tiamat did not die either, but that Oberon had given up his immortality to imprison her once more.  It's possible that her tomb is not where she is interred, but where she is imprisoned.  Now when Tiamat seduced Morgath to produce a son, Mordred the Black, his true form turned out to be that of a Shadow Dragon.  Obviously Morgath was not a Dragon so that leaves Tiamat, Lady of Shadow.  Could this be connected to all of the Dragonish stuff of the West?

Sendersblade at the builder's pyre- Alright, so Quarion is the builder, but where is his pyre?

Forestblade in my daughter's crypt- Oberon's daughter was buried on the Isle of Mourning (Mordred's Isle)

Saintsblade at the priest's secret rest- no friggen clue

Drakesblade in the hands of Kings!- no friggen clue as well

Deathsblade 'neath the ruined city- Possibly Caer Maelyn, but there are alot of ruined cities

Earthsblade with the lichlord's blood- It may be with Archonis' family, it may be with Archonis Bluestar.  This we need to determine fairly soon, lest Archonis' entire family be killed.  

Moonsblade in the Builder's Glory- In Quarion's Wall.  I'd be hesitant to remove that one since it may be what powers the magic to keep the Bluestar in the North.

Aldersblade True in the city of Forsaken Blood- This would be Oceanus, and it wouls also be gone.

Leigeblade at the side of rulers, Leigeblade stolen from the sea, Leigeblade as Serpent's salvation, Leigeblade's capture is the key-  um "Pirates"...yeah

Umm, ok, so the prophesy was told in Caer Maelyn, Raith Truthbearer wrote this in the "bowels of the old libraries in the Citadel"  There are quite a few citadels, but this should be a very old one, as far from Caer Maelyn as possible.  Yet we found this in the libraries of the Woodshadow.  Raith was waiting to tell the message to Thane, Link, or Quarion, and waited until the last possible moment to write it down, fearing that it would fall into the wrong hands.  Obviously it ended up with Link, but how much time was there between when it was written, and when it came into the hands of Link Woodshadow.  Did he show it to his daughter?  If so, does she have the knowledge of the 13 spirit blades as well?  Is she working for the Bluestar or for the West?  These are all things we should think about.


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## Xath (Apr 5, 2004)

*Leadership*

While Xath may have the most well developed speaking skills, I do not pretend to know anything about fighting, running an army, etc.  And since we're the ARMY of the Phoenix, Xath as a leader does not sound good to me.  

Three cheers for Justice.


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## Xath (Apr 5, 2004)

1) Would we align ourselves with one evil to conquer another and then destroy the evil we are with –a lets deal with this enemy and then you are my enemy not friend again?

How do we know that the 2 evils are not already allied against us?  Also, by aligning ourselves with one evil, we make them stronger, making it that much more difficult to defeat them in the end.  Also, there's the whole allying with evil thing.  The best of both worlds would to make each evil see the other as a growing threat that needs to be taken care of, more than they need to conquer the Falcon Kingdom.  However, the chances of us orchestrating this are extremely slim.  Whichever evil we go after first will give the other a chance to become more powerful.  To the point, I don't like the idea.

2) Gerti- from the prophesy, which blades have we linked to what places and which are still unaccounted for? 

See above post.

3) Connection of the triangle –bluestar, falcon king, dragon emperor?

Well, if my suspicions of Tiamat are true, that would explain the Dragon Empire's hatred of the Falcon Kingdom.  The one person who would know the most about that would be the Bluestar, as he intensly studied Mordred the Black's works before becoming evil and Lichifying himself.  However, its not like we can just walk to the frozen north and ask him, is it.

5) Find out more about the portals –we have left one open to their use there will be/most likely are more out there. How to destroy them completly, and who to tell warn or thier exsistance??

3996 BL Runed weapons are hidden, by their bearers, in thirteen Rune Stones, which are themselves hidden throughout the kingdom. Tagren Blayz, leader of the Black Talon, attempts to summon extra-planar aid to prevent Morgath from capturing the capital, Caer Albion. The portal, a Great Race artifact, fails. Instead, an unclosing gateway to the abyss is opened. With his dying breath, Blayz magically seals the city, trapping demon, devil, and abomination inside the city’s mithral walls.

4 BL Oberon is reborn, aided by the magics of the Apecto, and the great hero Dittymus. Caer Albion is cleansed, and the portal to the Abyss closed. Several other portals are discovered in Prydein and around the ringed continent. 

But then the revolution came.  As far as history is concened, the other portals were never closed.  But they were discovered at some point, and there should be record of that somewhere.  One thing to worry about is that the Portal at Caer Maelyn was closed, not destroyed.  Let's hope they can't reopen that monstrosity.


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## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

*A Note On Portals...*

There are a few things about the portals that your characters would probably know. 

When the portal to the Abyss in Caer Albion was cleansed, then closed, it was done...imperfectly. Because of the actions of Lady Tiamat herself to stall the closing, certain things were trapped between worlds, in the fabric of the portals themselves--Demons, monstrous undead, and evils more unspeakable even than those... 

Thus, while several portals were found, they have rarely been used in the past millenium, because of what lies along the "Path." 

You found one of these portals in the forest--it was the gateway through which Lord Miagee's people came. More than likely, the strange creatures that poured through it after you opened it part way were part of the remnant of evil that remains in the portals. You've seen several in use since then (whether or not you realized it at the time)...so their knowledge has clearly not been completely lost. 

Using the portals is dangerous--so dangerous that the Kingdom (despite its resources) has largely ignored their uses.

Portals work several ways.  The easiest (but most dangerous) is a portal-to-portal trip.  You simply have to know the right combination on the stone for this, and have enough energy to power the stones.  When using this method, the Portal Daemons are free to act against you as long as the portal remains open.  Nonetheless, there are not many Portal Daemons, and they are not omniscient.  If they are not at the right place in the Plane of Gateways, you can pass safely.  

More difficult (but less dangerous) is simply using the magic of the portals to enhance existing magics.  Using the stones, teleportation magics are generally more accurate, and more powerful.  In short, personal power is amplified.


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## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

> The one person who would know the most about that would be the Bluestar, as he intensly studied Mordred the Black's works before becoming evil and Lichifying himself. However, its not like we can just walk to the frozen north and ask him, is it.



Well, you could sure try!  *Laughs maniacally*


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## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

Also, it's very reasonable to assume that Link's daughter knows what's going on with the spirit blades.  Clearly, the King's forces knew something of them as well, since they put so much effort into getting Link's.  However, even if they have the prophecy, they still have to put the information together, just like you do.  

None of the verses give map coordinates, and so you certainly have a chance of getting some of these before they do...it'll just take some detective work.


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## The_Universe (Apr 5, 2004)

*Another Ceremony, Another Perspective*

It was shortly before sunrise, and I closed my eyes, deepening the comfort of darkness. Justice had reluctantly left the pyre an hour ago, but I knew better than to leave it alone, even then. He’s probably dead, but there’s no sense in taking chances. After all, death is no bar to being a pain in the ass.

Nonetheless, Edriss’s corpse was good to us, that night. No sudden rise of the chest, not even the stirring of an errant shadow. I should have slept. Oh well—plenty of time to sleep when you’re dead. Or not. Most of the dead I know are more active than the living. At least until you cut them into smaller, less-active pieces. 
I squinted. The sun slowly rose, chasing away most of the shadows that had been my sanctuary during the night’s long watch. I moved back, under the overhang, and deeper into the shadows. Part of me felt…wrong, hiding from my friends. But the shadows are safe, and often the best place to hide a monster like me. I remained unseen, even in what was to come. 

There was no music, no pipes. No dull, keening chant. But there was no doubt that this was a funeral procession. Priests that had days ago fled the wreckage of homes that they had doubtlessly known for most of their lives now slowly marched to the solitary wooden bier that stood in the center of Hyrwl. Duke Greyclaw and Inelliron—the regent—walked side by side. By necessity, he was in on everything. Did I trust him? Absolutely not. Was it my decision to make? Unfortunately, no. 

Me? I was glad to see the bastard burn. But we had to maintain certain perceptions. The body lying there was supposed to be a hero. The body lying there was supposed to be the rightful Baron, a man who had died from wounds taken while fighting an imposter. Of course, none of that was exactly true. This was the rightful Baron, but he was no hero.

Justice and L’Aurel followed, at the back of the procession. The rest of us were to maintain our distance—we didn’t want to get caught in the same game of perception that the Duke was so gleefully playing in. By the time the sun had silhouetted the bier, the procession had stopped. To say that a crowd had gathered was an understatement. This was as close as most people ever got to the pomp and ceremony of the high-born. Well, they were up to their @sses in it, now.

The crowd was silent…or at least as silent as a crowd can be. The solemnity of the occasion was enough to keep all but a few of the smaller yaps firmly shut. I was angry—so angry I could have screamed. We had just done this, although the last time it had been for someone who deserved it. My teeth ground against each other as I thought of the honor we were giving to this bastard—elevating him to the same status as the Woodshadow. Spend you’re whole life fighting, and you too can be remembered among the ranks of villainous bastards like Edriss Kiva. 

After a moment of silence, one of the priests stepped forward, out of the semicircle. Old, wrinkled, her skin was paper-thin, almost transparent with age. Stark white hair was tied behind the pointed ears of her people, but she spoke with a voice that was used to filling spaces. “We are gathered here to guide Edriss Kiva, once Baron, Lord of Hyrwl, to the everlasting embrace of the Light. Though flesh is ash, the soul is Light. Through flame, we free the Light and return the flesh to ash.” 

She raised her hands high above her head, saying, “Baron Kiva has helped us from the shadow that overtook our homes, and through his actions, we have found new strength, and a new place to call home. For these things alone, the Light has guaranteed him a place at the side of His throne, at the right hand of heroes.” I almost laughed. 

Her hands fell, and as they did, the semicircle closed, priests igniting their hands, Justice, L’Aurel, Inelliron, and the Duke solemnly carrying torches forward. I saw the flames before I saw the body, reaching skyward, and then blending in with the still-rising sun. The body blackened, sending it’s acrid, sour smell outward in all directions. I loosened my bowstring, but didn’t drop the bow. Never trust the dead. 

The elf woman spoke once more. “As these flames reach toward heaven, so goes the soul of this hero!” As she finished, the uneasy silence broke in the crowd. I heard sobs—wailing refugees. They were actually crying for that bastard! Well, they were crying for what they thought that bastard was. I suppose that’s not quite the same thing.

Before I could grind my teeth down to nothing, the Duke put a stop to the crying. Thank the Light! Stepping forward, his dark features even darker in contrast with the roaring flames behind him, he shouted, “The loss of Baron Kiva will be keenly felt! Yet, before he died, he shared a great secret with me! Baron Kiva came here to take the seat, but not to hold it!” 

This was just like he had rehearsed last night. In his private quarters. You never really know who you can trust.
“This Barony was held in trust for nearly a millennium, awaiting the return of the blood of the Woodshadow. That blood has returned, and stands among us even now! Though two heroes have fallen in as many days, there are many heroes that remain! One of your saviors has carried a secret, her grandfather’s trust, for all of her life…and now, in your time of need, she has returned to take her grandfather’s abandoned throne!”

I heard murmurs in the crowd, then. Confusion. Who was he talking about? 

I knew. We all did—we had carefully constructed each lie, shrouding them in truth. I shudder to think that the sages will never know the truth, but necessity is a powerful thing. We did what we had to do.

“L’Aurel, one of our saviors, is the reason that Baron Kiva hurried from Crisoth. L’Aurel Woodshadow, true Baroness of Hyrwl.” I saw nods, smiles. I even heard a few cheers, probably from those few people who had already forgotten what was burning behind the Duke.

He continued, “L’Aurel Woodshadow has come to take the barony, L’Aurel Wooshadow has come to lead us to victory, safety, with all the blessings of the true Throne of the Falcon Kingdom!” That last was splitting hairs. It wasn’t exactly a lie, but a good portion of it was based on a guess. The night before, we had decided that Jaine Rhynn would have been happy to have one of the King’s baronies under our control. As long as that was true, we could lay a claim to the blessing of the throne, even if we were pretty sure that Tain would be screaming his head off when he heard. Oh well. He’ll probably live. The ones you wish wouldn’t always do. 

They bought it, and then they cheered until Edriss was no more than the ash that the old priests are always telling us we really are. Then, they went back to life, back to building a city in the wilderness, and praying for safety from the dark army that had taken their homes. I was doing my part to help them. We all were. Light forgive us for what we do. 

As the crowd scattered, I dropped from my perch, and hugged the shadows all the way out of town. I skirted the camp, watching, waiting for trouble. That was when I felt it. A cold, wet nose, pressing itself onto the back of my neck. Hot breath, with the stench of old meat almost overwhelming me. 

I turned, slowly, trying not to startle the beast. I expected to see something much smaller…but infinitely less friendly. It was Greylocke, the beast that had guarded Link’s stronghold. The wolf was enormous—big as a horse, and a big horse at that. The hot breath escaped from between ivory, dagger-sharp teeth.

A little hesitantly, I gave the Direwolf a pat on the head, and tried to go back to watching, guarding. The damned thing knocked me over, onto my face. By the time I got up, it had a bone in its mouth (easily 2 feet long—I don’t know what it had killed, but it was even bigger than the wolf), and its tail was wagging. 
I kept trying to go back to watching, but Greylocke was insistent. Fetch it was, until the sun set behind the trees.


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## Xath (Apr 5, 2004)

*Mr. Miagee*

Jeremiah, did Kaereth happen to see where Mr. Miagee went? Or do you know where he is going?  If so, we need to find him because he may have crucial information on the new dragon emporor and on the location of one of the spirit blades.  Please let me know.


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## Xath (Apr 5, 2004)

*What to do and where to go?*

Alright, so we've decided to go to Sylvannus, but there are some other things to consider.

1.  We can be fairly sure that the Woodshadow's daughter had access to the same prophesy that we have.  She'd have to make sense of the prohesy, but we may be in a race.

2.  Mr. Miagee may have some crucial information for us.  He may know about the new dragon emporor, and have information on the location of one or more of the spirit blades.  This all depends on whether or not Tiamat is involved, and if so, how much.  The same invasions happening here now, happened in Mr. Miagee's country 16 years ago.

3.  The prophesy we recieved has a period of time where its location is unaccounted for.  As far as I can tell, it was written at citadel refuge, but time past before Link came to take it away.  We may find more information by going there as we originally had planned.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 5, 2004)

*Decisions...*

I don't know that we've decided to do anything-- at least, in my opinion, nothing that can go into the planning process at this point.

Please people, check your email and read my long post from last night.  Let me know what you think is the best option..

1.) Find the blades first.

2.) Raise the army first.

Email me or post it!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

*The Plan*

Much thought and energy has gone into the following PLAN:

First, each member of our group is going to swear the oath of alliance--  At this point in the story, it is not only appropriate but, necessary.  If your character is not willing to do this... they walk.
This will distinguish our team as the Circle of the Phoenix... It has been suggested that we get rings to go along with this as an obvious sign that the individual belongs to the Circle (this would be kept a secret from all but us).

Second, Team Sneak (consisting of L'Aurel and Archon) will infiltrate the big castle in the city Oceanus to find out who the big boss is (Syvattagor is being controlled by someone that we can assume is living in the palace).

Third, we're going to get Jaine to Hyrwl through one of two options-- have her teleported or send Seaborne and some other NPCs to get her.

Fourth, we are going to raise an army to take back Oceanus--at the same time, taking back the blade that we can assume is there. (hopefully getting much more information along the way)
*YAY!*
The raising of the army will be done in several ways but, that's to be posted in the somewhat near future.

Oceanus is a strong city and an excellent base for the Army of the Phoenix.  Moreover, if the king is indeed sending his army to the Frozen North, we've got a great in and should jump at the opportunity.

After taking Oceanus, we begin the quest for the rest of the Blades-- starting with the Isle of Mourning.

These are pretty huge "goals"--but, they are things that, with dedication, I have faith we can actually accomplish...

So, yes... there it is.


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## Archon (Apr 6, 2004)

*becomming a team.*

Archon stands with Justice on her descisons. I also say that when we take the Oath, we swear to follow Justice (the person AND the concept) without hesitation, thus giving us an executive leader.  
now, if everyone else agrees, we have a leader, a purpose and most importantly a chance.
mik aka "Sneaker"


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## The_Universe (Apr 6, 2004)

Good idea. A tough fight ahead, but not one that seems completely impossible. Should you choose this path, some of you may pay for success with your lives. Failure would be terrible indeed. But it'd be a helluva way to go.


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## Xath (Apr 6, 2004)

*Just some thoughts...*

1.  Oath of Alliance=Awesome

2.  Team Sneak.  While I'm all for the Team Sneakage, let's not forget that Scrying, Clairvoyance, and Clairaudience could give vital information that would keep our sneakers alive.  Scrying may even answer the question for us.  Since it's a divine and arcane spell, I'm sure someone can cast it.

3.  While stopping the existing forces is a good idea, should we not also consider going straight to the source?  We should also try to locate and close as many of the portals as we can find, destroying them as necessary. 

So...wait, we're actually raising an army? For the army of the Phoenix?  What? An idea makes sense! My brain can't take it! Implosion imminent...


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## Xath (Apr 6, 2004)

*That 5 week fun-fest*

Thirty-five days with no major mishaps.  So….what to do? 

Xath realizes that it is important to find Mr. Miagee, as he may have crucial information about the whole shebang.  She goes to find Kaereth, hoping that he will know where Mr. Miagee has gone too. 

In general, Xath will work with the Duke, trying to help the refugees of Oceanus set up permanent residences.  There are certain orders of business to take care of in order to set up the new city.
1.	Separation of useful specialties:  Masons, Loggers, Carpenters, Food Preparation, etc.  Those with skills not inherently useful to this situation (IE, sailors, dockworkers) should be put to manual labor or should be apprenticed to the useful skills.
2.	 Set up of a 24 hour crèche.  Everyone will serve work shifts in the crèche while others work on setting up the new city.  Those children old enough can be used as messengers and put in charge of menial tasks.
3.	In most situations such as this, the economy is reduced to a barter system and takes quite a while to recover.  In order to prevent this, the duke and baroness should use the funds allotted (17,100 gp or some part thereof) to keep the economy stimulated.  Firstly, all laborers should be paid a standard wage for work done, as though the entire populace were working for the government.  Therefore, technically the Barony and the Duke “own” every resource produced until the trade market is stable enough to hand it back to the people. 
4.	If a permanent settlement is to be made here, we must know more about the resources of the area.  Send out cartographers and scouts to determine sources for food, water, resources, etc.  We also need to determine key danger areas, locate them and prepare appropriate defenses. 
5.	A defensive barrier should be set up about the circumference of the expanded city, leaving some room for growth.  It would be wise to use a combination of manual defenses and magic.  Hopefully the remains of the mage tower will help as they are defending themselves through this.  Around the wall, trees should be cleared out about 100 yards away from the wall, eliminating the chance of surprise on the city.  If the army of Oceanus decides to move, the city should not be undefended.
6.	Scout parties should be sent out in all directions searching for other refugees who escaped but scattered to the wind.  Since permanent residences are being set up here, this is as good a place for them to come as any.  
7.	If we are missing skilled artisans from any crucial profession, word should be sent out to neighboring cities asking for aid. 
8.	Entertainment should be arranged for the evenings, to keep morale up.  These people have just suffered through immense trauma and cannot be expected to make an instant recovery.

Once we have a definite plan of what we’re going to do, down to the specifics, I’ll write more really interesting stuff…or just more stuff.   Anyway, this is part of what Xath does during our 5 week funfest.  More to come after the Plan.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Thirty-five days with no major mishaps.  So….what to do?
> 
> Xath realizes that it is important to find Mr. Miagee, as he may have crucial information about the whole shebang.  She goes to find Kaereth, hoping that he will know where Mr. Miagee has gone too.




Justice does the same-- Mr. Miagee's men and women are incredible warriors-- they would be an incredible addition to the army of the phoenix..

This is another reason why I do not believe that destroying the portals is a good idea-- I could be wrong, but Mr. Miagee still has people in the West... if done correctly this time, we should be able to use those portals to bring them here.

Secondly, I think that sending a message to the monastary somehow is a good idea... they should all be nice and healed up now.  Maybe their warriors can come to our aid at Hyrwl and fight for the Army of the Phoenix...


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## Archon (Apr 6, 2004)

*life as a scout*

"4. If a permanent settlement is to be made here, we must know more about the resources of the area. Send out cartographers and scouts to determine sources for food, water, resources, etc. We also need to determine key danger areas, locate them and prepare appropriate defenses. "

During the five weeks Archon has spent time in the surrounding area with L'Aurel and Greylock and the two of us should be able to deliver information about the area in an informed manner.

try so scry. i hope it works, it'd save us unnessesary risk. but if it doesn't, Archon is more then willing to infiltrate Oceanus.

anyway, it's good to hear plans forming.
mik aka "bus boy"


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## The_Universe (Apr 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath realizes that it is important to find Mr. Miagee, as he may have crucial information about the whole shebang. She goes to find Kaereth, hoping that he will know where Mr. Miagee has gone too.



Good idea.  Waiting on Jeremiah on this one.  



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> In general, Xath will work with the Duke, trying to help the refugees of Oceanus set up permanent residences. There are certain orders of business to take care of in order to set up the new city.
> 1.    Separation of useful specialties: Masons, Loggers, Carpenters, Food Preparation, etc. Those with skills not inherently useful to this situation (IE, sailors, dockworkers) should be put to manual labor or should be apprenticed to the useful skills.
> 2.     Set up of a 24 hour crèche. Everyone will serve work shifts in the crèche while others work on setting up the new city. Those children old enough can be used as messengers and put in charge of menial tasks.



Interesting ideas, here.  A lot of the people whose trades aren't useful here in the woods are probably being absorbed by Frarathir and Arfin's militia, though.  Maybe you want to include a "signing bonus" to induce people to join either your growing army, or a part-time militia?  

The Creche is interesting.  What does the Baroness think?  

In general, remember that the Duke is just advising Kat.  She's the authority (self-declared), and everyone treats her as such.  Even the Duke.  But, he presents lots of advice.  



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> In most situations such as this, the economy is reduced to a barter system and takes quite a while to recover. In order to prevent this, the duke and baroness should use the funds allotted (17,100 gp or some part thereof) to keep the economy stimulated. Firstly, all laborers should be paid a standard wage for work done, as though the entire populace were working for the government. Therefore, technically the Barony and the Duke “own” every resource produced until the trade market is stable enough to hand it back to the people.



Interesting idea.  Probably a very good one.  There will still more than likely be some bartering going on, but this will stabilize things a bit.  Once more, depends on the Baroness.    



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> If a permanent settlement is to be made here, we must know more about the resources of the area. Send out cartographers and scouts to determine sources for food, water, resources, etc. We also need to determine key danger areas, locate them and prepare appropriate defenses.



Um...it's a forest.  It has all the things that forests have.  No major rivers or streams, but it's possible to dig some wells, etc.  Sanitation may be an issue in the long run, but other than farmland (which is in short supply) you're okay.  None of the people here are farmers, anyway, so you're probably on a very meat-heavy diet.  



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> A defensive barrier should be set up about the circumference of the expanded city, leaving some room for growth. It would be wise to use a combination of manual defenses and magic. Hopefully the remains of the mage tower will help as they are defending themselves through this. Around the wall, trees should be cleared out about 100 yards away from the wall, eliminating the chance of surprise on the city. If the army of Oceanus decides to move, the city should not be undefended.



Are you including Hyrwl in this?  Or is it a separate thing?  As for constructing magical walls and defenses, I recommend that you look at the Stronghold Builder's Guide.  I have a copy of it, but I bet you can download it, as well.  It has the costs for walls, etc.  




			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Scout parties should be sent out in all directions searching for other refugees who escaped but scattered to the wind. Since permanent residences are being set up here, this is as good a place for them to come as any.



Very good idea.  Who's in charge of this?  I'd appoint one of the PCs to be "Head Scout".  Kat should choose who, probably.  They can then organize teams, and lead a few themselves.   This is also good introductory missions for your militia.  



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> If we are missing skilled artisans from any crucial profession, word should be sent out to neighboring cities asking for aid.



This is a must.  Perhaps you could use Arfin's diplomatic connections with the dwarves to bring some aid from Khaz Modan?  They probably won't send soldiers, but they may send artisans, etc., assuming you can pay them.  Kat and I were just starting to work on this.  Perhaps you and she can coordinate more closely? 

In addition, publicizing Link's re-acceptance of the High Elves could be used to draw them here, as well.  All of these things take money, though, and 17000 ain't a lot.

That's the universe's take on things.  Good work so far.


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## The_Universe (Apr 6, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Justice does the same-- Mr. Miagee's men and women are incredible warriors-- they would be an incredible addition to the army of the phoenix..
> 
> This is another reason why I do not believe that destroying the portals is a good idea-- I could be wrong, but Mr. Miagee still has people in the West... if done correctly this time, we should be able to use those portals to bring them here.
> 
> Secondly, I think that sending a message to the monastary somehow is a good idea... they should all be nice and healed up now.  Maybe their warriors can come to our aid at Hyrwl and fight for the Army of the Phoenix...



 Agreed with the monastery.  Not only are Miagee's people there, but there are powerful clerics, as well.  But, the seas are dangerous (as you know).  Crossing them will be difficult indeed.  

On another note, most of the people already here are urban--and thus have few/no weapons.  Any idea on how to get some of those?  (Also, are you going to flaunt the law and use steeldrakes?  If so, where are you going to get them?)


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## The_Universe (Apr 6, 2004)

*On Oaths*

The Oath of Alliance, as I have said, is a great idea.  The oath of whatever to Justice is less so.  I REALLY LIKE that you have chosen a nominal leader, but if you're going to swear an oath other than the oath of alliance (and individual oaths of friendship), I'd swear an oath to either Jaine (as Queen), or L'Aurel (as Baroness).  I suppose you could do both.  Justice would still be the leader of 'The Circle of the Phoenix' but the group would have extra loyalty to a rightful ruler of one sort, or another.  

Whaddya think?


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## Xath (Apr 6, 2004)

*Some Cool Beans*

A magical item that would be really good for us to have.

Since we want to get rings that distinguish us as the circle of the phoenix.

Rings of the Circle of the Phoenix- Mithril rings with a phoenix carved about its circumference, Rings of the Circle of the Phoenix grant the wearers the Permanent effects of Rary's Telepathic Bond.  They come only in pairs, however, more pairs can be added to the bond.

Cost: 15000gp per pair

Yes, they're pricy, but I think they're worth it.  It's like having a silent mind telephone between all of us.  It would be really good for L'Aurel and Archonis to have in Oceanus so that they could communicate without sound. They would also be able to communicate with us while inside.


Also, we have wands of Knock and Detect Secret Doors.  Do either L'Aurel or Archon have use magic device?


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## The_Universe (Apr 6, 2004)

Why not just enchant beans?  The title of the post got my attention...you could put them in your ears...

Hilarious.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

*Telepathic Rings...*

Justice has asked Arfin to craft the rings.  She is waiting for his response...

At this point-- we cannot afford to have the magical telepathy as a part of the rings. (60000 gp for the whole lot)  We have other responsibilities right now-- obligations-- like Seaborne's boat and the rest of the money we owe him.

However, after the Oath of Alliance, we have the ability to know eachother's Status and other stuff like that-- these abilities, though not as powerful as telepathy, serve similar purposes and will have to make due until we can affor them rings.

I think it is a great idea, though-- something that we will hopefully be able to get in the very near future!


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## The_Universe (Apr 6, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> "4. If a permanent settlement is to be made here, we must know more about the resources of the area. Send out cartographers and scouts to determine sources for food, water, resources, etc. We also need to determine key danger areas, locate them and prepare appropriate defenses. "
> 
> During the five weeks Archon has spent time in the surrounding area with L'Aurel and Greylock and the two of us should be able to deliver information about the area in an informed manner.
> 
> ...



 Scrying is tried.  And fails.  There is shield of some sort.  The palace is blocked, but the city itself is open to scrying--making the entire thing blocked would be far too costly.  

So, besides the palace, where else do you look?  

As for the scouting, I need a spot and search check from both of you.


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## Xath (Apr 6, 2004)

*Scrying*

I'd reccomend scrying at the Tower of the Red, Apectan Cathedral, Army Barracks, City Watch, Amastacian Temple, and Navy Base, as well as various locations along the docks.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I'd reccomend scrying at the Tower of the Red, Apectan Cathedral, Army Barracks, City Watch, Amastacian Temple, and Navy Base, as well as various locations along the docks.




From my scouting on Thane, I know that the Red Tower is in ruins-- there's nothing going on in there...

However, I don't exactly remember what else I saw... DM, can you give me a refresher??


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## Archon (Apr 6, 2004)

*Archon goes to the Zoo*

looks like a field trip. 
the rings are a good idea, but until we can afford the actual enchantment, L'Aurel and Archon can work out a sort of sign language to use in the field. As far as use magic device goes....Archon is 75 xp from gaining a level and i plan i gaining ranks in Use Magic Device. so, yes, Archon would be able to use the scrolls, as long as the Universe concurs.
Kennon, i sent you an electronic letter that contains the results of my various rolls.
mik aka "Zoomaster"


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## The_Universe (Apr 6, 2004)

You can't afford the magical rings yet, but I bet you could get someone to cast the spell on you...duration is less, but it'd still be handy.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

**

Justice never gets to go to the zoo!!

I want to see the pandas!!!

Panda Attack!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> You can't afford the magical rings yet, but I bet you could get someone to cast the spell on you...duration is less, but it'd still be handy.




The duration isn't nearly long enough-- looked it up today.  We have to get from Hyrwl to the outskirts of Oceanus-- that will take several hours.  By the time we get to Oceanus and Archon and L'Aurel get inside, it would have already poofed away.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

*Banner*

This is roughly what I would like to see the banner look like-- it needs a differnt world map behind it-- there's stuff on it our characters doen't know exists... but-- it was easy to trace, so I used that one...

Also-- I'm not sure what we want it to say...

Open for suggestions...

I know Mik is keen on the phrase "Until the Darkness Fades"... or something along those lines...

"We Will Be As Flame" or "Redemption from Flame"... something along those lines...

Let me know what you think!

Justice will spend an entire evening with another cleric-- maybe Fr. Dorn blessing this-- it will give it certain magical qualities that will benefit the entire group.

If you all want to work on individual symbols or banners, that is also a good idea... Especially L'Aurel... work on a banner for the high elves?  Each group within the army should have their own identifier, I think...


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## Archon (Apr 6, 2004)

*good eyes*

calling the Circle (to be, hopefully) together, Archon along with the baroness inform the group that they have found a Portal Stone. it lies outside of town on the site of an old Byzantine battlefield. 
something to add to the mix.
mik aka "Indianus Jonus"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 6, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> calling the Circle (to be, hopefully) together, Archon along with the baroness inform the group that they have found a Portal Stone. it lies outside of town on the site of an old Byzantine battlefield.
> something to add to the mix.
> mik aka "Indianus Jonus"





That's excellent-- maybe we'll be able to use it to bring Jaine and her posse back to us...

I'll do a little research, see what Justice knows about portal stone and whether or not we'll be able to work it.


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## Xath (Apr 7, 2004)

*Danger, Danger Will Robinson*

I'd be really careful of bringing an NPC of any sort through a portal without the entire party to take them through.  The reason portals aren't used openly throughout the kingdom is that there are creatures from the Abyss inside.  Granted, they have to be at the right place at the right time, but...I wouldn't want to chance Jaine on it.

By the way, Knock and Decect Secret Doors are wands, not scrolls.  If the duration of Rary's Telepathic Bond isn't long enough, why not see if we can get a scroll of it that Archon and L'Aurel can use before entering the city.


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## Laurel (Apr 7, 2004)

hmmmm... where to start.... and sorry but this will be a long one 

          1) So far as I know we are still missing at least three for leadership vote … so definitely no oaths yet.

2) Justice needs to go talk to Father George if she has not- as I said before he knows about your parents… who became pirates… who may still be out there…. Pirates are another group of outcasts… may be helpful

3) L'Aurel and Archon are having fun hunting at night anyways, so team sneak is ready - and apparently already found something   I would assume naturally they would start to form a natural ability to use signs or such- hey, sneaking up on Greylocke is not as easy as it looks J  -1 skill point for knowledge (how archonus hunts)- Good to share the info. But only with the seven of us so far… at one of the breakfasts (see * if you have no idea)  As for the going back into Oceanis, L’Aurel would ask Archonus on one of their trips about it, before agreeing to anything.
4) As to scouting parties, seems like the best time for Farathier and Arfin to see what their militia is like and how the groups work.  Scouting for land, people, and resources.

5) Working on the woodshadow banner stuff.  L'aurel would keep to that angle -and only 10 GP for a local to do it  I'm cheap like that... hey, wait...

6) L'Aurel would swear friendship to all, but the leadership one only to Jaine.

7) As Liz may have noticed, L'Aurel will accept ideas and wisdom from all, but she is wearing the burden of these people heavily on herself and on herself alone.  The group goals are still her’s as I put in my first long essay, but all these people are now her responsibility for the time being as well- she will have to weight heavily any sacrifices she makes for the group/adventure goal and those of the people.

8) Gerti/Xath great ideas with the people stuff-- wages will be set for laborers and a bonus for those taking on the militia training.  24 hour crèche sounds a little much, and I would like to not force anyone to work there.  I would assume there are lots of women and men who ran the households… well, no households to run so to run the crèche they go.  I want people to work and work hard, but I do not want to run them into the ground, as they are used to urban life.  As for the children messengers, they get wages but much shorter shifts, and none late at night -older people can do that.  Also. if this makes sense set times for lunch and dinner served from the palace.  Try to get a pattern going a sense of somethign they can count on.  Parents will have to sign their children up for the messenger service though, as I am not going to round them up.  How is the schooling?  Mostly learn a trade or learn from priests?

9) As for resources, that will all be part of a letter she send outs to the cities around- also will discuss at a breakfast meeting (see *) if Arfin would write also to dwarven holds around for help there.  –Maybe while/if Archonus and L’Aurel go to Oceanis we could ask for their aid… JUST KIDDING!

10) L'Aurel also looks over her shoulder a lot... dragon people... hate.... 

11) If we are scrying, I would also ask the Amastatian temple- it does not sit well with L'Aurel and there is some reason it is there pointed the way it is..... oh, wait it's facing Mordred’s Isle….the Isle of Mourning DUH!!!! Let’s hope no one else gets it before we get to it!!!!

12) The banner for the Phoenix looks cool, but I would recommend it being as simple as possible (maybe just the foreground phoenix).  Something people can easily see and know, instead of being caught up in background stuff.... just my two cents there.

13)  For Mr.Miagi’s people before we bring them here –I would suggest by normal means or clerics with portal- having them scout if possible to see about the other two portals on their side of the continent (the one where we found them and one by the sea) or we scry these though I think they will be hidden from us.

14) For Xath- Saintsblade at the priest's secret rest- most likely the Apecto.  I will send you want I got from the mages and see if you can do any better or fit pieces in I am not getting.  Also see if you want/could talk to other mages, priests and see what they know... Though this may tip our hand to snake people if they are out there…  

15) Before we start bringing or planning to bring any rebel or people with death sentences on their head (Jaine, Joshua, Bluemages or anyone else) to Hyrwl Justice, Randall and I need to finish our chat.   Also, complete agreement with Gerti/Xath on the use of portals- very dangerous, and to use an NPC character we are trying to set up as queen… serious backfire!!! One of the goals that is kind of implicit is to keep her alive.

16) For the entertainment aspect, I was hoping Xath could at least partially fill that spot.  She could tell our stories past, and present.  She could even just pass these on to aspiring bards here for them to sing about at night.  But as stated by Xath yes it definitely needs to happen, L’Aurel however, has a horrible voice and no sense of rhyme. 

17) I will not turn away any of the refugees, and I think it a good idea for the scouting parties to also find those wayward people –word should be going to some of the other cities telling people they can come here.  This is for refugees of Oceanis remember that…  

18) I know food will become a problem soon, so L’Aurel will have to see what is included in her Barony, but will not let the forest be slashed and burned- sorry!  When we meet for what is below then L’Aurel can say more on what word/letters she has/is going to send out.

19) If Justice really wants to go to the zoo she could fly to Sylvanis get Jaine who we hope is still there or her contact is actually good- and bring Jaine and Joshua back while just giving orders for the others to flee here--- by the way this is not an actual request as I am sure you will notice… J

*) WILL YOU ALL SHOW UP FOR BREAKFAST WITH THE BARONESS THE MORNING AFTER THE FUNERAL OF EDRISS??? I have asked most of you through e-mail to make it fit with the story and be in character, but not all sorry, and have heard back from no one –since I wrote them just a few hours ago J  There we can decide on oaths and L’Aurel has news that she wants to share with only the seven of you!  Though she does not tell you that part….  Then we can also more talk then jumping and missing some facts in some posts- a more linear conversation if you would.  

These meetings would become everyday if the baroness can arrange it, and for a short period we will enter together, talk, and leave as a unified group.  A council! That the people see as head!  They would serve to talk about what is happening and go over what still needs to be done.  This would give us the time to all this as a group and not in factions, so everyone knows everything! So let me know if you attend the first one… send an e-mail or post—I will send the final stuff to Kennon or better just CC him on everything…. Hmmm… too much e-mail…
Okay I think that is enough for now.. too much to digest, and I know I left stuff out.  Oh Boy!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

*Justice's Parents?*

To the best of everybody's knowledge, my parents are just adventurers.  The last Justice knew her mother was sailing West with Tain.

She was a very brave explorer... but, aside from that-- little is actually known.  They didn't visit me very often, to say the very least... and don't exactly keep in touch.

Justice talks to Fr. Dorn quite often-- she feels very close to him.  It was he that told her of her heritage...
And, from all the stories that he has told, I've never once been told my parents are pirates... or really had that referenced.

Where did you come up with that, Kat?


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## Archon (Apr 7, 2004)

*The Breakfast Club of Impact +2*

count an unmasked Archon in. it's about time the seven of us sat down and had a talk. i say we post the breakfast here and we can mail out copies of it to those who cannot post here.
"We only met for one breakfast, but it changed our lives forever." - The Breakfast Club(ish)

mik aka "Quotey McMisquotes"


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## Laurel (Apr 7, 2004)

*what happened to the bean idea?*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> To the best of everybody's knowledge, my parents are just adventurers. The last Justice knew her mother was sailing West with Tain.
> 
> She was a very brave explorer... but, aside from that-- little is actually known. They didn't visit me very often, to say the very least... and don't exactly keep in touch.
> 
> ...



Father Dorn mentioned Katie sailing west, and trouble Joshua had gotten into. Then trouble Dorn and Joshua got into and sentenced to exile. Jaine and Joshua also long ago spoke of Justice's mom, Katie, having ships that she would be using for thier purpose. So your mom may be technically under the crown, but she was going to help or Joshua was going to get her to help with the rebels, so even if not pirates -my bad on bad word choice- but she would know saliors who are not satisfied.... but if you have already talked father dorn and can not get anything out of him- L'Aurel will not push it -it is your family, and Joshua should know more anyways.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

Ditto on the breakfast..

But-- couple of things..

(1) If there are reservations about making Justice the "leader" please-- let me know ASAP.  I posted several days ago-- and, having heard no complaints, I went forward with what I saw as the best plan of action for the group...
I took into consideration the ideas and opinions of Archon and The Universe when doing this-- they both agreed.. I trust their opinions-- so, I went forward.
I've still heard no actual complaints but, I get the idea that not everyone is with me.
In reality-- I feel the group should operate like this:
Archon, Justice, and Kaereth are the core strategy force.  The "leader" that all of us have been talking about--and Kennon has begged us to chose--takes into consideration every opinion of the core force and makes a solid decision.  L'Aurel is the group's legitimacy, at least until Jaine gets back.
Arfin is the Dwarf-- he deals with the dwarves.
Xath provides the strong and persuasive voice and the biting social commentary whenever needed.
Tim's character, whose name I can't spell, at current, is doing an excellent job training warriors and will add much to the Army of the Phoenix.

It seemed to me when selecting a "leader" that there were, realistically, 3 choices-- Xath, Justice, and Archon.  These three have the training, experience, and skills to fulfill the position most effectively. (a point agreed upon by the DM)
I know that Archon does not want to play that part.  Xath openly stated that she did not want that position.
So, please-- if you do not want Justice to be the "leader"-- tell me.  I will take no offense-- that's what I requested that you all post or email me about it a few days ago.

(2) Someone somewhere mentioned swearing an oath of Justice-- that was _never _ my intention-- nor was it ever part of her plan as a leader. 
The only oath to be sword right now is the Oath of Alliance between the PCs.
When we have Jaine back here-- Justice, at least, will be swearing Fealty to her as the rightful Queen.

However, I do feel it is completely necessary for the group to swear at Oath of Alliance to EACHOTHER.  As I said before-- prong 1 of Justice's plan is: Swear the oath or walk.

There's my two cents for the moment...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Father Dorn mentioned Katie sailing west, and trouble Joshua had gotten into. Then trouble Dorn and Joshua got into and sentenced to exile. Jaine and Joshua also long ago spoke of Justice's mom, Katie, having ships that she would be using for thier purpose. So your mom may be technically under the crown, but she was going to help or Joshua was going to get her to help with the rebels, so even if not pirates -my bad on bad word choice- but she would know saliors who are not satisfied.... but if you have already talked father dorn and can not get anything out of him- L'Aurel will not push it -it is your family, and Joshua should know more anyways.




Justice will be spending lots of time chatting with him-- hopefully I'll get something out of him soon... in fact, we're going to spend some quality time with the practice swords in the near future-- I'm sure he'll kick my butt but at least he'll be lucid for a little bit.


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## Archon (Apr 7, 2004)

*Leaders...*

Justice is the best qualified to lead. high Charisma, Leadership feat, she attended a military academy and she's a paladin. all of these things tend to point towards leadership. so i back her up completely. she has all of are intrests in mind and she has a close connection to the Universe (  ). 
Xath would be a great leader save for the fact that the hard choices of leadership should never be forced on someone with such high Virtue. Being a leader is really about the hard choices and being able to make them. 
Archon in his the true fashion of a martyr would want nothing more then to bare the burden of those hard "moral dilema" choices. but he doesn't speak up. he doesn't say anything. if asked to he'd lead, but never would it cross his mind that you'd all trust him enough to.
so once more we come back to Justice, the best choice and the one i back. but should making a leadership decision ever conflict with her Code she knows she has us to fall back on.
mik aka "miky"


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

*On Leadership*

Before I get into any of the in-game stuff, and HOO BOY is there a lot of it, I wanted to touch on some out-of-game considerations on who you choose for a leader.

making all your decisions in-character is all well and good, but at some point, you have to take certain realities into account.  The most important of those realities is out-of-game time.  

Whoever you choose to be the leader has to be "in" the game enough to work on it at times other than when we play.  Perhaps it shouldn't be this way, but your chosen course of action and story that is developing take a little more maintenence than can be provided on a single saturday.  Plans need to be made during the off-days, so that we don't hear complaints about how we're not rolling enough dice.  

What that means is that the leader has to be someone who is willing to put in the extra time.  Experience would tell me that there are only a few of you who can do that.  

Despite all the in-game reasons for any of you to step up and take the reins, some of you CAN'T, because you're unable or unwilling to put in the time.  That's no big deal--just a reality.  

Looking over the boards really says it all.  You're picking a PLAYER to lead, as well as a character, and that leaves only the following realistic options: Liz, Gertie, Kat, or Mik.  Jeremiah has some posts here, as well, but far fewer than the others.  However, Jeremiah, as well as Tim and Greg have far too much going on in real life to devote the same kind of time and effort that you guys do.  In fact, I'm willing to bet that only the four of you msg board junkies will actually read this post.  That being true, we begin to see the ranks of potential leaders thin out.

My second criteria is my inbox--Kat has the lock on DnD related e-mails there, but the other three are hot on her heals as of late.  Tim, Greg, and Jeremiah are nearly *But not completely* silent once more.  (This is not to say that Tim, Greg, and Jeremiah aren't great players--you've all shined brightly at one time or another.  They're just players with more to do in real life.  We need to respect that, and at the same time reward the players that go the extra mile)

Lastly, MSN Messenger.  Kat and Mik fall way behind here, and Gertie and Liz are neck-and-neck.  Liz has her beat in total messages, but a good share of those are not DnD.  Take out all the I Love you's, etc., and we're at a pretty accurate count.      

Even so, Mik and Gertie SPECIFICALLY do not want to lead.  Liz was a tad uncomfortable with it, but is willing to do so.  Mik chose her character, and managed to convince her to do it.  They seem to have Gertie along for the ride.  That leaves Kat.  Kat is a little scattered, and is our newest nerd.  Yet, she is definitely "in" the game enough to make it a possibility.  

That really leaves just Liz and Kat.  

Now we can go to the in-game reasons.  It all comes down to stats.  L'Aurel's INT and CHA are both low.  Makes strategy hard.  WIS is high, but not outstanding.  Nonetheless, she is a semi-legitimate baroness.  

Justice has amazing CHA, good WIS, and a fair INT--far better rounded for actual leadership.  But she is NOT a baroness.  In the best of all worlds, L'Aurel provides legitimacy to the outside while Justice leads the in-group discussions.  I dunno if that can happen or not, but it's all out on the table.  I hope that that helps.


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## Xath (Apr 7, 2004)

*The Stuff and What Have You*

I'm on for breakfast cause In the morning, I'm makin' waffles!

By the way, everyone should look at http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2075

Um, that's about it.  I still support Justice for leader.  And I'm okies with the whole oath.

Ok, I'm done.

- Gertie aka. "wishes she could have cool name things like Mik"


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

*Answering the Longest Post EVER*

A great deal of this has nothing to do with me. I'll encoruage you all to attend the "breakfast." Now, I move on to sorting through the flood! 





			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> So far as I know we are still missing at least three for leadership vote … so definitely no oaths yet.




To be fair to Mik and Liz, nobody voted. It was more like three abstentions. Kat has sorta voted with me...but not in the public forum, where it was requested. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 4) As to scouting parties, seems like the best time for Farathier and Arfin to see what their militia is like and how the groups work. Scouting for land, people, and resources.




Agreed. That is a good idea. After the first "breakfast" L'Aurel and Justice should put out the order. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 5) Working on the woodshadow banner stuff. L'aurel would keep to that angle -and only 10 GP for a local to do it  I'm cheap like that... hey, wait...




If this gets done, this should definitely magicked. The symbolism is supercool...think LoTR army of elves, with L'Aurel at their head....*shudders in anticipation* awesome.




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 6) L'Aurel would swear friendship to all, but the leadership one only to Jaine.




Right on. It would appear that this was the plan all along. The question remains if everyone else will swear the oath. So we're clear, the universe thinks it is completely apropriate to assume that you should all trust each other enough to swear an oath. Repeat--this demand is NOT out of line. My messageboard regulars seem ready to accept that.  I am very glad. 






			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 11) If we are scrying, I would also ask the Amastatian temple- it does not sit well with L'Aurel and there is some reason it is there pointed the way it is..... oh, wait it's facing Mordred’s Isle….the Isle of Mourning DUH!!!! Let’s hope no one else gets it before we get to it!!!!





Miracle of Miracles! You figured it out! Don't you love foreshadowing? Also, as a side note, it was the statue, not the temple of the Amastacia that faced Mordred's Isle. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 13) For Mr.Miagi’s people before we bring them here –I would suggest by normal means or clerics with portal- having them scout if possible to see about the other two portals on their side of the continent (the one where we found them and one by the sea) or we scry these though I think they will be hidden from us.




Nobody really knows how to use the portals for their original intentions. The Serpentblood appear to be able to use them in that manner, however. The Mages CAN use them to amplify their own teleportation magics. Who's in charge of this? You'll want to send a PC with any scouting parties. Whoever it is, e-mail me tomorrow, and I'll fill you in. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 15) Before we start bringing or planning to bring any rebel or people with death sentences on their head (Jaine, Joshua, Bluemages or anyone else) to Hyrwl Justice, Randall and I need to finish our chat.




What do you still want to know? I thought I answered all of your questions? Post or e-mail! 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 16) For the entertainment aspect, I was hoping Xath could at least partially fill that spot. She could tell our stories past, and present. She could even just pass these on to aspiring bards here for them to sing about at night. But as stated by Xath yes it definitely needs to happen, L’Aurel however, has a horrible voice and no sense of rhyme.




Bonus XP for actually writing and telling a story from the past. You and Kat should have enough information to fill a small book. Maybe even a large book. I encourage you to put your stamp on it. Post it/e-mail it if you can get it done, and it will be worth bonus XP. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 17) I will not turn away any of the refugees, and I think it a good idea for the scouting parties to also find those wayward people –word should be going to some of the other cities telling people they can come here. This is for refugees of Oceanis remember that…




Good idea. Decide on a method at the breakfast, and then do it. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> 18) I know food will become a problem soon, so L’Aurel will have to see what is included in her Barony, but will not let the forest be slashed and burned- sorry! When we meet for what is below then L’Aurel can say more on what word/letters she has/is going to send out.




You all need to figure out what to do about surrounding settlements. Some will have food to sell, but it will be to sell, not to give. You might be able to attract artisans, as well...but I need to know where and how you're trying to get them. As always, I am happy to answer questions on detail. 

General notes: figure out how to get Jaine, and then get her here. Very important. High priority. 

breakfasts are a great idea--What are you thinking? Message board? e-mail? In Person? Let me know. 

Also, when do you and Mik want to go the zoo? 

Tomorrow, I will post the further results of some of the scrying. I have your requests above. 

Great job all of you working constructively on this, gang. Those of you who have put some work and thought in this'll be rewarded in sweet Experience Points.


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## Laurel (Apr 7, 2004)

*Just watched Matrix 3... that is all I can say... :-(*

Must sleep now- but I have no EN world or IM during the day... and actually I have no IM screen names, but for Liz's... so I will talk via e-mail tomorrow and maybe we get some more stuff done  nighty-night for me now though


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Must sleep now- but I have no EN world or IM during the day... and actually I have no IM screen names, but for Liz's... so I will talk via e-mail tomorrow and maybe we get some more stuff done  nighty-night for me now though




I'm skipping out on school today-- have 2 exams tomorrow and my class tonight is absolutely worthless.

Feel free to email all you want!  I'll be sitting around my desk all day!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

*On Portals...*

Okay... so-- the portals...

(1) We know that the bad guys use them.  

(2) We know that the ninjas used them.

(3) We know that they were not properly cleansed back in the day.

(4) BUT! We know that they can inhance the Bluemages teleportation abilities without actually utilizing the portal.  
This could be a very useful tool, indeed...
Justice is doing all the research she can about the portals, though.  

Hopefully Fr. Dorn will have something helpful to say... I've found that if we fight with the practice swords he remains lucid for short periods of time... no matter how much he kicks my butt... I'm sure it will be a humbling experience.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

*The Isle of Mourning..*

Indeed, we MUST get to the Isle of Mouring...

It is way up there on the list of things that we are going to do.  Once Oceanus is ours, that is our next stop... not only because it is closests... but, because the statue of the Amistacia gives me the odd feeling something is there... call it a hunch...


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

Yeah--Matrix 3 was even worse than Matrix 2.  It's so bad, it tarnishes the memory of the Matrix (1).  

Also, in game terms Bluemage = Wizard.  Redmage = Sorcerer.  Whitemage = Cleric.  

The gang from the tower of the Red is mostly redmages.  Randall and a few others are Bluemages.


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I'd reccomend scrying at the Tower of the Red, Apectan Cathedral, Army Barracks, City Watch, Amastacian Temple, and Navy Base, as well as various locations along the docks.



The Tower of the Red is in ruins.  The stepped pyramid that formed the central tower has had the red stone stripped from the ancient brick.  The four surrounding towers have fallen, and laborers who at least appear to be elven, driven by hulking draconids, move the stone to somewhere else in the city.  You see several new kinds of draconids...as well as a far larger gangs of undead than before.  The undead seem restrained, as they do not appear to be feasting upon the slaves.  In fact, they seem to be working side by side.  

The Apectan Cathedral still stands.  All of the statuary, and any markings identifying it as a church of the light have been stripped from it's surface.  A huge block of basalt, easily as large as the statue of the centurion king, stands in front of the church, and workers appear to be carving something out of the black stone.  You're not sure what.  

The Army barracks are abandoned.  The walls have been demolished, the stone then carried elsewhere.  You see a few elven squatters hiding in the abandoned buildings.  Even as you watch, a squad of draconids enters, grabs half of them, and carries them towards the center of the city.  

The City watch is full of humanoids, once more mostly elves.  There are a few draconids guarding the place, but the cells seem to be used as a kind of holding pen.  Every once in a while, a few more of the elves are taken out of the cells, only to be replaced by other, captured townsfolk.  None taken out return (that you can see).  

The amastacian temple has also been stripped of its statuary, markings.  Workers of varying races, driven by a draconid, gather on scaffolding built up around the welcoming statue of the Amastacia.  They are reshaping the statue somehow, but you are unsure what the result will be.  

The navy base has been demolished.  Stone stripped and used for the wall around the city, you'd guess.  Any armaments therein have been moved elsewhere, but you have not seen where.  

The docks have been rebuilt.  Draconids now operate the great pulleys, sometimes driving elven slaves.  Sleek-hulled draconid ships rise and fall along with more "normal" ships.  The great Bone Ship still sits in the bay, far too large to be brought to the docks.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

*Nazis!!!*

Hmmm... the Evil Dragon people are vicious undead nazis cleansing Oceanus of all the elves left over... not cool at all.
In fact, I would go so far as it say that it is absolutely deranged and sick.

Kennon, how common is slavery in our world-- or does it exist at all?

... also-- do the vicious undead in Oceanus speak with something that could be considered a ridiculous german accent???


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## Xath (Apr 7, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Hmmm... the Evil Dragon people are vicious undead nazis cleansing Oceanus of all the elves left over... not cool at all.
> In fact, I would go so far as it say that it is absolutely deranged and sick.
> 
> Kennon, how common is slavery in our world-- or does it exist at all?
> ...




I don't like the theory about the germans, because that makes Oceanus France.  France!  And if we come to save them, that makes us the Americans, and who wants to be american for crying out loud?

Can we analogize with something like the Great Schism of the East and West, or how about the Hundred Years War?  Yeah, something like that...


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## Archon (Apr 7, 2004)

*hard choices require hard people to make them*

Kat has asked me to lead. i never said Archon didn't want to lead, he just didn't think you guys wanted him to. if in fact he is asked in game, then he will take on the responsibility. in fact a part of him does want to lead because he doesn't want Justice, L'Aurel or Xath to have to make decisions that may lead to the deaths of soliders, the innocent or friends. they are too young and such a burden will kill a small part of them. it will dampen the light that shines so brightly within them. Archonus is willing to abandon that possible light within himself so that we as the Army of the Phoenix may lead the world into a brighter future, yet he would ask the same of no one. he sees the group struggling but says nothing. Archon has been silent too long. and if you let him lead you, you'll be giving him the trust and the possibility of redemption that he has always sought
think about it.
mik aka "Optimik"


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

I e-mailed everybody.  Please read it.  Please respond to it.  Please be shiny, happy people.  

I have spent much of the day today with a pounding headache, and mild nausea, I'm guessing because of the additional stress of trying to hold a group of friends that I care a great deal about together.  

*weak, tired, headbutt o' love*


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Kat has asked me to lead. i never said Archon didn't want to lead, he just didn't think you guys wanted him to. if in fact he is asked in game, then he will take on the responsibility. in fact a part of him does want to lead because he doesn't want Justice, L'Aurel or Xath to have to make decisions that may lead to the deaths of soliders, the innocent or friends. they are too young and such a burden will kill a small part of them. it will dampen the light that shines so brightly within them. Archonus is willing to abandon that possible light within himself so that we as the Army of the Phoenix may lead the world into a brighter future, yet he would ask the same of no one. he sees the group struggling but says nothing. Archon has been silent too long. and if you let him lead you, you'll be giving him the trust and the possibility of redemption that he has always sought
> think about it.
> mik aka "Optimik"




In all of the time that Mik and I talked-- he never told me that-- he simply said that he wouldn't want that.  And so, Justice stepped up... and was supported by Archon.

If having Mik as the leader will make everyone stop bitching, go for it.

Over the past several days, I have thought about little outside of finding a way to bring the group back together.  We had no purpose, so I attempted to give us one.  I put a lot of thought and time into it-- but, apparently y'all had problems with it.  If that was the case, I wish that you would have come to me... instead, I had to learn about them through the grapevine and it put me and Kennon in a very uncomfortable position as I do not particularly like yelling at my husband or being yelled at by my husband-- especially about a game that it seems to me we are all taking far too seriously.

I apologize for upsetting you guys.  I am truly sorry.  In the future, it will be easy to prevent things like this by simply asking questions of the other players instead of making assumptions about their actions.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 7, 2004)

Okay kids, here's my thoughts:

1)  Leadership is good.  Either Justice or Archon would be fine.  Kaereth would have no problem with either choice.  I think we should also remember that, if I'm interpreting this correctly, a leader will not mean the rest of us simply follow their dictates, rather, when we're lost, confused or otherwise fighting about what course of action, they will provide direction and, dare I say it, _leadership_  so that we can get on with the meat of the game, killing bad guys.  I mean enjoying the story!      Whatever decision the group comes to I am fine with.

2)Planning.  If I recall correctly, the current plan is to raise an army, take back Oceanus and head off after swords and Jain.  I'm going to concentrate on the taking of Oceanus part, because it's military and that makes me happy.  Looking back over previous posts of mine regarding Oceanus etc, I think parts of that plan can and should still be used.  Namely, the forces arrayed against us are too much for us to take in a stand up, conventional fight, no matter the size of the army we have.  At least to start with.  Therefore, it seems to me, especially as we're taking this 5 week hiatus or so, where many of us are working on training interested parties, that we begin our campaign with a guerrilla effort.  We train several squads of quick, stealthy troops (I'm thinking teams of 10-12) to go in, do a quick strike, and come out again.  We'll need several, independently operating groups that will also need to be very careful about coming back to Hyrwl, as leading the bad guys to us before we're ready would be bad (although hopefully we'll have some defenses up by then so that we have a shot if the worst happens).  One of the first goals might be to rescue those squatters in the barracks as they are on the edge of the town.  This also gives us some flexibility in that, if we lead the first few skirmishes and train up teams that can operate without us, it means we could possibly run off to the Isle of Mourning, find the blade there and come back in victor, boosting morale, hopefully recruiting and with the work of the guerrilla teams, maybe leading to a better shot at a conventional campaign.  Our own party would be brilliant at such a task, but that may not be in the cards.  Hopefully this all makes sense and perhaps allows us to narrow down/tighten up the plan.

3)Let's look at our own resources or what we all bring to the table in the military aspects (in alphabetical order)...this is also capabilities, not expertise:

Archon:  Stealth, archery, close-combat
Arfin:  Close-combat, tank.  Some ranged.
Fareathir (apologies if I butchered that):  Archery, Cavalry, close-combat
Justice:  Close combat, aerial cavalry, some ranged
Kaereth:  Close-combat
Laurel:  Stealth, archery, Yoshi
Xath:  Deception, misdirection, some archery, some close-combat

If I missed anything feel free to add, hopefully having this in black and white is useful to thinking about planning and the battle for Oceanus.

So, in a nutshell:
Leader=good
Plan=good
Known Resources=good

Go Team!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

Okay..

So, Archon or Justice?

This needs to be decided ASAP and with no conflict, guys.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 7, 2004)

Couple more things, once again relating to _The Plan!_TM

  We need to train warriors for this army etc, so what we need to train:

  Archers
  Footsoldiers
  Cavalry
  SOF (Special Operations Forces for the uninitiated   )

  That's an overall look.
  What we need to concentrate on right now is the guerrilla forces, meaning:

  Archon and L'aurel teach the sneakery and with Frarathir archery.
  Kaereth and Archon teach unarmed fighting.
  Justice and Arfin teach melee weapons.
  Xath teaches the arts of deception, misdirection and such skills.

  In terms of conventional forces, all of that, plus Frarathir can teach Cavalry skills.

  With this framework in mind, we could, in fact, open up a Warrior Academy of sorts, to bring in outsiders who want weapons training.  And their payments can serve to fill the coffers of the refugees, as we've discussed the 17000 is probably not going to be enough to keep this place going for very long.  Thus, we train and raise an army to take back Oceanus AND with new students' donations, we help the refugees settle successfully in Hyrwl and vicinity.

It's an idea at least.


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Kat has asked me to lead. i never said Archon didn't want to lead, he just didn't think you guys wanted him to. if in fact he is asked in game, then he will take on the responsibility. in fact a part of him does want to lead because he doesn't want Justice, L'Aurel or Xath to have to make decisions that may lead to the deaths of soliders, the innocent or friends. they are too young and such a burden will kill a small part of them. it will dampen the light that shines so brightly within them. Archonus is willing to abandon that possible light within himself so that we as the Army of the Phoenix may lead the world into a brighter future, yet he would ask the same of no one. he sees the group struggling but says nothing. Archon has been silent too long. and if you let him lead you, you'll be giving him the trust and the possibility of redemption that he has always sought
> think about it.
> mik aka "Optimik"



A note on this: 

Archon WAS asked to lead several times. I was in the room when Justice asked him to.  Mik, citing a different direction he wanted to take the character, refused.   So, for accuracy's sake, he was asked. We can't be the martyr in everything.


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Couple more things, once again relating to _The Plan!_TM
> 
> We need to train warriors for this army etc, so what we need to train:
> 
> ...



 Great idea!  I don't know what couple of geniuses thought that up, but they must really be geniuses!  Maybe even super geniuses!  I think these two faceless, mysterious geniuses deserve a reward.  Perhaps pie?  

Pie?  

By the way, I have it on good authority that Apple is in fact the sluttiest of the all the pies.


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## The_Universe (Apr 7, 2004)

*On the Zoo*

1) According to Kat, who cannot post, the Zoo needs to happen tomorrow, or after April 19 if she is to be involved.

2) If the proverbial shiznit hits the fizzan, two people will be dead or captured, as the current plan structure does not allow for quick reinforcements.  

The universe, through one of any number of NPCs, suggests the following: that you use the portal stone Mik and Kat found to teleport team sneak in.  The remainder of the group waits by a portal, somehow monitoring the status of the others.  If something bad goes down, you teleport in, kick ass, and get back out.  That way, you can live to try again, later.  Think of it as instant back-up, as well as a good getaway plan.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 7, 2004)

I admit, Justice is very intrigued by the portals.

Though they may be dangerous, she feels that they could be a very useful tool..

The idea of instant backup is cool... but, if we do have to go in and kick ass, how do we get back out??


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## Xath (Apr 9, 2004)

*Post Withdrawl*

I'm posting, because no one has for about 2 days.  That is all.

-Gertie


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## The_Universe (Apr 10, 2004)

I am posting.  My parents are here, so it'll be slow posting around here til monday.  

I am proceeding in my planning on the assumption that you are all going to be doing something involving the freeing of Oceanus.  Disabuse me of that notion ASAP if you're switching gears, again.  

Also, it sounds like next weekend is dead as far as DnD is concerned, as well.  I still want to get together to hang out with the people that are available.  We can do some alternate gaming, or something else entirely.  *whatever.*  But, I am in friend withdrawal while the parents are here, so I definitely want to hang out next weekend.  

--Kennon


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## Archon (Apr 10, 2004)

*notable historic references.*

i'm posting cause i'm hungry. hungry for slaughter.
mik aka "Mr. Rage Issues"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 10, 2004)

Just wanted to wish everyone a happy Easter...


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## Xath (Apr 10, 2004)

*The Big Shebang*

This one's a doozie.  I sent it out over email as well.
So, I've been doing some thinking and asking some questions.  And I have two things to talk about.  The first is the prophecy.  

Being as how we're trying to find all of the remaining spirit blades before the Bluestar and the evil West people, I think we need more information on the prophecy, our enemies, the spirit blades, etc.  So, actually, I should split this up more, share the information I've gleaned already, and then make my proposals.

Ok, On the Note and Prophesy:

1.  The Prophesy was written by Raith Truthbearer, a shadowdancer General of the army under the command of (the dwarf who was the friend of the Bluestar, and is now under his control but I forget his name)
2.  The journal begins with Raith fleeing from a palace, which from all the clues seems to be in Caer Maelyn.  At this point, Thane Apecto was across the sea, the location of Pendra Amastacia was unknown, and Link Woodshadow was leading the King's forces north to guard Caer Albion.
3.  When Raith encountered Oberon, the green man was dying.  He became this way during his legendary battle with Tiamat, lady of shadow.  He gave up his power to IMPRISON her, not to kill her as commonly thought.  (Read my other notes on Tiamat)  
4.  All of this was happening when the Traitor (I assume this is the Bluestar) attacked Caer Albion.  I believe this is in Freedom Year 2, the begining of the War of the Damned.  
5.  Raith Truthbearer was not supposed to be the one to get the message.
6.  "Thirteen there were, and thirteen there are, near three hundred thousand tomorrows shall come together to herald this age's end."  It has been approximately 326310 days since Oberon said that.  
7.  Raith wrote this in FY 9, soon before his death in the Citadel farthest away from Caer Maelyn.  (This would be Citadel Refuge)  He waited to write it until the last possible moment, hoping that Thane, Pendra, or Link would come to hear his message.  But they never came.  So he wrote it.

Yet somehow, the journal came to be in the possession of Link Woodshadow.  There had to be some time between these events, and many people could have seen this journal.  We also need to confirm our assumptions on the locations of the spirit blades, and figure out the location of the others.  So here's my plan.  I'd like to take 1-3 weeks of our 5 week down time and teleport to Citadel Refuge to do research.  And here's why:
1.  We need to find this information before our enemies do.
2.  With the plan we have made, there is no time to go to the Citadel, confirm our assumptions, or find the locations of the other blades.  This is something I think we need to do.
3.  I've checked into ways of contacting Citadel Refuge without actually going there, and believe me, I've done alot of checking.  The closest thing would be to communicate through a Ring Gate (40,000gp) but that only goes up to 100 miles, and CR is further away than that. We'd also have to get the other Ring there, and I doubt we have a 17th level wizard. 

That is point one.  Now on to bits of information and stuff 2. (of I think 3)

We need to contact Mr. Miagee.  Jeremiah, what's your status on that?  Reason 1 being that Justice has some questions.  Reason 2 being that Xath would really really really like some more information that may prove, disprove, or complicate her theories on Tiamat being involved with the armies of the West.

Point 3.  Jaine Rhynn and the Game of Politics aka. Happy Happy fun Land

Ok.  We are trying to overthrow the current king and place Jaine Rhynn on the throne of the Falcon Kingdom.  This is pretty much going to have to come completely from insurrection/rebellion, because as far as the succession goes, it was pretty legitimate (if a bit underhanded, but most successions are)  Not only that, but even if the King is overthrown or mysteriously dies, we have to put Jaine Rhynn in the appropriate political light so that she is the obvious choice for the next monarch.  So, we need some dirt on the King.

Here's what we've got.
1.  King Tain Hawkson I is supposedly the bastard son of King Maelwys Embries III and a servent girl.  However this claim is somewhat suspicious, since the second child of the servent girl is half True Alder, and the King is human.  
2.  The King never legitimized Tain's claim to the throne until after he had suffered from a "stroke" at which time the majority of the ruling of the kingdom was done by the noble's council.  The King was only seen in public once after his stroke.  While there is no doubt it was Maelwys, there is much doubt as to whether he actually said anything, or someone spoke for him.
3.  The servant girl is now married to a True Alder former member of the King's personal guard.
4.  When the time for succession came, the heads of the two other competing families (Rhynn and Filmore) mysteriously died of "accidents" leaving a 14 year old girl(Jaine Rhynn) and 20 year old man (Alric Filmore aka. Mr. Phipps) in charge of their respective houses and up for the succession.  
5.  There are rumors that Tain threatened the families of the Noble's Council to win their support.

Now, murder, threats, and bribery in a succession are not unheard of, but in todays "enlightened" society, they are certainly frowned upon by the general populace.  Now Tain has had over 7 years to cover his tracks, so we won't be able to prove treachery through conventional means that easily.  That being said, I have an idea.  I'd like to ask one of the clerics to Commune as per the spell.  Since it's a 5th level spell, we'd be able to ask 9 yes/no questions to the light/saints/whatnot above.  The question becomes what 9 questions.  Also.  We have to be careful with the wording of the questions as as the deities we recieve our answers from (aka. The Universe) can screw around with the question to suit themselves, though I think this is difficult to do with yes/no, but I've learned not to put anything past Kennon.  So.  Here are a few of the questions I thought to ask.  Feel free to bring up some of your own, or change the wording.

1. Is Tain Hawkson I the biological son of Maelwys Embries III?
2.  Did Maelwys Embries III, of his own free will, legitimize Tain Hawkson I as his son and heir?
3.  During the succession after the death of Maelwys Embries III, did Tain Hawkson arrange for the deaths of the leader of each the Rhynn and Filmore families?
4.  During the succession after the death of Maelwys Embries III, did Tain Hawkson blackmail, bribe, or threaten the Noble's Council to gain their support?
5.  Has King Tain Hawkson I allied himself with the Draconic and Undead forces of the West?
6.  Is King Tain Hawkson I operating under his own free will?
7.  Is Tiamat free from the prison in which Oberon placed her by giving up his immortality?
8.  Are the Draconic and Undead forces of the West allied with the Bluestar?
9.  Do any members allied with the Bluestar and the Undead and Draconic forces of the West know the locations of the 13 Spirit Blades?

I think this is all three of my points.  Please respond.  Recap.
1. Teleportation to Citadel Refuge.
2. Mr. Miagee
3. Commune 

-Gertie

Please forgive my spelling.  And grammer.  And punctuation. 

Actually, screw punctuation.  Nobody should care about that.


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## The_Universe (Apr 10, 2004)

*Answers*

Raith Truthbearer was under the command of a Dwarf named Gyan Thunderheart, of the clan Thunderheart. Gyan was a hero of great renown during the Freedom War, and was a highly effective general in the opening stages of the War of the Damned.

Statement #5 re: the prophecy is not necessarily true. How do we know who was supposed to hear it, if anyone? I would posit that Oberon was not expecting to die right then...

Which would imply that he was NOT dying over the course of two years, but was actually doing quite well until some force under the command of the Bluestar was able to harm him further. The prophecy seems to be a last act of desperation, and not a wholly conscious one on the part of Oberon...since Oberon is often referred to as a Messenger, perhaps this was simply the last message he had to deliver?

You are nonetheless nearly 100% certain that he is dead, now. 

That's all the confirmation I'll give you. Some of your other assumptions are just that--assumptions.

As for the trip to citadel refuge...

1.) It's not clear that you need to find the information before the enemy does. You need to think less like a hero, and more like an evil dictator on this one. They clearly need ALL of the spiritblades for something. Therefore, you only need ONE spiritblade to mess up their plans. They're spending the resources to find all of these things, which means that you'd be foolish to distract them from finding them. Let them do the work, and then either take a single blade from them, or spend the resources to find just one, and make sure-as-hell you can keep it, this time. If they can take 1 from you, they can take 10. Don't save them the trouble of hunting them themselves. 

2.) You're right--in the plan you have made, there is no time to go to Citadel Refuge. The plan that you have made requires the full resources of the characters for the entire 5 weeks, plus. Do you NEED to go there? See above. (On another note, if you convince the other characters, I won't prevent you from going there).

3.) Since none of the Wizards or Sorcerers, nor yourselves have ever been to citadel refuge, teleportation of any sort is risky, but vaguely possible if you use one of the portal stones. The easiest, safest way would be to sail there. Note: just because it the safest does not mean it is safe. It is, in fact, VERY dangerous. 

Jeremiah will have to answer some of the stuff about Lord Miagee, such as he knows it. However, if Jeremiah says that Kaereth will run after him before he disappears completely, I can answer some of those questions as Lord Miagee. In fact, shoot those questions to me at home and work, and I will get to them as I can.



As for the Jaine Rhynn thing--if you're going for popular uprising, stick with that. As Fidel Castro would tell you, there's really no way to make your succession ACTUALLY legitimate. You just have to convince everybody that they like you better than the guy in power, now. That being said, go ahead and ask your questions. It's really not going to convince anyone but yourselves, since the cleric just hears the answer in his or her head. The answers are below: (as you read the answers, bear in mind that the phrasing of the question may alter an answer from a yes to a no. As a God of Truth, the Light has answered each truthfully, but remember that ambiguous phrasing may prevent Him providing really useful information with a yes or no. In addition, if the premise behind a question is false, the answer may simply be reflecting that. Hence, while I can assure you that all of my answers are technically true, that does not mean that they are obejectively true.) 

1. Is Tain Hawkson I the biological son of Maelwys Embries III?

YES

2. Did Maelwys Embries III, of his own free will, legitimize Tain Hawkson I as his son and heir?

YES

3. During the succession after the death of Maelwys Embries III, did Tain Hawkson arrange for the deaths of the leader of each the Rhynn and Filmore families?

YES

4. During the succession after the death of Maelwys Embries III, did Tain Hawkson blackmail, bribe, or threaten the Noble's Council to gain their support?

NO

5. Has King Tain Hawkson I allied himself with the Draconic and Undead forces of the West?

NO 

6. Is King Tain Hawkson I operating under his own free will?

YES

7. Is Tiamat free from the prison in which Oberon placed her by giving up his immortality?

NO

8. Are the Draconic and Undead forces of the West allied with the Bluestar?

NO

9. Do any members allied with the Bluestar and the Undead and Draconic forces of the West know the locations of the 13 Spirit Blades?

NO


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## Xath (Apr 10, 2004)

*Finding the Spirit Blades...*

What if these blades are in other cities?  I'd rather at least know where they are.  That way, we have a good idea as to where the west is going to move, and we'd have a chance to at least warn the people of that area, even if we couldn't go there.  I personally don't want to see another Oceanus inflicted on these people.


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## The_Universe (Apr 11, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> What if these blades are in other cities?  I'd rather at least know where they are.  That way, we have a good idea as to where the west is going to move, and we'd have a chance to at least warn the people of that area, even if we couldn't go there.  I personally don't want to see another Oceanus inflicted on these people.



 During week three you'll get precisely what you desire--an idea of where the Draconids will move...and where they already have. 

More as I have time. 

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 11, 2004)

Until we have an army to fight for us-- there is no way that we can prevent "another Oceanus."  The 7 of us do not have the ability to stop their foces..

We know that they have HUGE numbers.  Kaereth has told us that the numbers that attacked Oceanus are but a small portion of the power they have...

So-- once again, furthers my belief that we need to spend time in Hyrwl attempting to recruit, train, and organize The Army of the Phoneix.


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## The_Universe (Apr 12, 2004)

A note, and then an update.  

Note:  You can cast commune multiple times.  So, if you have another set of questions, shoot.  

Update:  

It's been about three weeks since the "trial" and the "heroic" death of Baron Edriss Kiva.  

You've all been very busy with your various tasks, working hard to prepare the people of your fledgling city of refugees for whatever horror will next be inflicted upon them.

On the 25th day, two things of import happen.  

1) Shortly after dawn, a messenger rides into Hyrwl, looking specifically for Baroness Woodshadow, the Lady Hyrwl.  He will speak to no one else, and is actively hostile to anyone who tries to see the contents of a leather satchel at his side.  However, save for a light crossbow and a shortsword, he appears to be unarmed.  He is also very young--maybe 15 or 16.  Peach-fuzz covers his ruddy cheeks.  He appears to be human.  When asked from whom his message has come, he replies firmly, "from a friend of the baroness.  I am under oath to say no more."

He will wait for as long as he has to, but every day he is made to wait, he will demand to see the Baroness, as it is a matter of great import for her barony, further insisting that he bears the message from a friend.

2) At nightfall, a pair of dwarves stumble into the camp, followed by Archonus, and Greylocke, the direwolf.  They appear to be battered, exhausted, and at best only partially conscious.  Archon has the details for how they were found.

Both dwarves are armed and armored, both appear to have sustained injuries relatively recently in battle.  They also appear to have some older injuries which were not properly attended to--no matter what happens, these two dwarves will carry numerous scars for the rest of their lives.  Because of their fatigue, they aren't really volunteering information at the moment, but they may be able to answer questions *HINT HINT*.

The dwarven population in Oceanus is thin--almost non-existent.  So, they probably didn't come from there.  Archonus brought them in from the east, not the south or west, so they probably aren't from Khaz Modan or Ribbul.  The rest is up to you to find out.


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## Laurel (Apr 12, 2004)

YEAH! I got one of the system admin's to let me into this site... technically it should still be blocked, so if I go bye-bye one day I will just have to see about working my magic again  

As for what Gerti wrote about asking questions and the blades: Going to Oceanis may give us some more knowledge on the prophesy and the person behind it.

As for the messanger, unless there is some reason why not- I would see him right away, but take someone with me --can we just roll a percent dice and see who sees him come into town?-- 

For breakfast club week one... um I will just post it as I have it... since we are getting way beyond it and I am getting way behind


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## The_Universe (Apr 12, 2004)

You see him right away, then.  Who do you take with you?  

(I'll e-mail what he says to you when I get a chance.)


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## Archon (Apr 12, 2004)

*Availbe for Questioning*

Kennon let me know what's going on with the dwarves. So Archon is available to be questioned.
mik aka "Mr. Rained-on"


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## The_Universe (Apr 13, 2004)

Check your e-mail--I thought I sent you something before I got off work. 

Long and short of it--they came by boat, probably from the ocean. They're too hurt to talk until healed. I think that that has happened already in an e-mail, so now they're all yours. Question away!

On the subject of last weeks's *ahem* hostilities, I want to remind you all that I was totally serious about apologizing to each other.  It doesn't have to be public, physical, long, or even particularly flowery or poetic (although it can be any and all of those things).  Just a quick note between friends is a good idea.  Such a good idea, that I am (as I already said) DEMANDING it, should we all wish to continue the current game.  As I have already stated, if we can't reach that point, I'll gladly play, but I'll be done GMing.  Period.  OK?  Get it done, please. There are still players out there that feel pretty burned for doing little more than trying to help.  I want to get back to the real business at hand, which is having fun with your friends, but that cannot happen with uncertainty and hurt still rampant.

I'm sure that came off a little cold, but even if you're taking a "break" from e-mail and posting, you can do at least this much.  It is important to me, and even more important to the people that got burned.  

Thanks gang!


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## The_Universe (Apr 13, 2004)

*Some perspective.*

Not urgent. Look at this thread when you get a chance.  It may provide some perspective. 

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83647


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## The_Universe (Apr 13, 2004)

The message from week four has been delivered.  Still waiting on questions for the dwarves, and any more "commune" questions.


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## Laurel (Apr 13, 2004)

*open questions...*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> The message from week four has been delivered. Still waiting on questions for the dwarves, and any more "commune" questions.



Maybe even more fuzzy and openended,  but what the hey!?! 

1) Are the dragon emperor and the bluestar working together?
2) Is the king working with the bluestar?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Maybe even more fuzzy and openended,  but what the hey!?!
> 
> 1) Are the dragon emperor and the bluestar working together?
> 2) Is the king working with the bluestar?




Based on what we know without communing....

(1) No-- the bluestar is not working with anyone.

(2) The King seems to be fighting against the bluestar... sending his army north and stuff...

But, we're communing right now-- we'll have better answers shortly...


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## Laurel (Apr 13, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Based on what we know without communing....
> 
> (1) No-- the bluestar is not working with anyone.
> 
> ...



... I'll just wait to see what you guys come up with then...


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## Archon (Apr 13, 2004)

*April Phulz.*

the bluestar, the Dark Serpent and the king all work for me, and we're going to open up a small nail salon in L.A. called, "Lords of Evil, nail salon". 
i like this idea. Kennon, start writing for it.
mik aka "Shaniqua"


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## Laurel (Apr 13, 2004)

*um.... I never should write...*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> the bluestar, the Dark Serpent and the king all work for me, and we're going to open up a small nail salon in L.A. called, "Lords of Evil, nail salon".
> i like this idea. Kennon, start writing for it.
> mik aka "Shaniqua"



Well, that leaves the rest of us out... :-( We should open a store across the street- competition see if you can handle that  And in a way you, as Archonus are actually workign for the bluestar... so that woudl be twisted... your shadow would have more power then your real self.... odd... to paradoxical!


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## The_Universe (Apr 13, 2004)

I think that it should be connected to Pepperoni Empire.


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## Xath (Apr 13, 2004)

*Commune-ism*

1.Are King Tain Hawkson I and the forces of the West engaged in a mutually beneficial relationship?

YES

2. In the relationship between King Tain Hawkson I and the forces of the West, is one side dominant?

YES

3. In the relationship between King Tain Hawkson I and the forces of the West, is the West dominant?

NO

4. In the relationship between King Tain Hawkson I and the forces of the West, is King Tain Hawkson I dominant?

YES, WAIT!, Actually...

Shadowstone, king's black heart, rule.

5. Does King Tain Hawkson follow the orders of another?

King is Soulbearer, single rule.



The rest will be up later.  Now, It's time for class.


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## Laurel (Apr 13, 2004)

you three are probably doing/have one this, but what of the Bluestar's connection or non-connection to all this...


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## Laurel (Apr 13, 2004)

*A simple request*

Hey all,

An E-mail will be going around *shortly* with an attachment -“Our First Breakfast Club”, and since we are not playing this weekend L I am asking if you could just take a few minutes and read through it, and add your character’s answers and ideas.  Also, so we can keep track, just post to the board letting us know when you send this on to the next person and who it is going to (cc-ing Kennon when you forward the updated version on to the next person).  I will post the final to the message board as a complete dialogue, if all goes as planned J

          Feel free to change what *your* character would say or do, but please keep what people have already written (and the order) as it is.  In Yellow are some comments I just copied from the boards, so not really ‘in character’ –but the boards are going onto week 3 and 4 of planning and action so I want this done! J  Also this is a breakfast our characters are attending so please try and put things as they would be quoted for your character J

--First one up will be Gerti/Xath

Thanks!!!


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## Archon (Apr 13, 2004)

*what it's like to be "challenged"*

*does the bucket dance and tosses a spoon at kennon*
mik aka "Micky McTriplepostscausehesanumtard"


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## Archon (Apr 13, 2004)

*mmm....pancakes*

i'm looking forward to the seven characters getting a chance to communicate. but what i'm _really _ looking forward to is the pancakes.....
mik aka "Master of Onslaught"


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## Laurel (Apr 14, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i'm looking forward to the seven characters getting a chance to communicate. but what i'm _really _looking forward to is the pancakes.....
> mik aka "Master of Onslaught"



Um... anyone else think he is a little odd... funny, but definately wierd...


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## Xath (Apr 14, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i'm looking forward to the seven characters getting a chance to communicate. but what i'm _really _ looking forward to is the pancakes.....
> mik aka "Master of Onslaught"




Is this Onslaught like the MTG expansion?

Gertie aka "Master of 5th Edition"


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## Archon (Apr 14, 2004)

*Unreal Onslaught*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Is this Onslaught like the MTG expansion?
> 
> Gertie aka "Master of 5th Edition"




...no. but if that where the case i'd be,

mik aka "Master of the Revised"


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## The_Universe (Apr 14, 2004)

Is somone going to post the most recent commune question/answers?


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## Laurel (Apr 14, 2004)

*trying to not just assume*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Is somone going to post the most recent commune question/answers?



When someone does this - could they/or anyone also explain if we know why the dragon invaders keep putting up the bluestar's marks??  Is it more complex then just trying to link to a known evil even if they are not in reality linked?
Thanks


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## Xath (Apr 14, 2004)

I thought I had posted the last few questions, but apparently, that is not the case.  I can't do it now because I'm not at home, nor will I be until about midnight, so I'll probably post them tomorrow.

"When someone does this - could they/or anyone also explain if we know why the dragon invaders keep putting up the bluestar's marks?? Is it more complex then just trying to link to a known evil even if they are not in reality linked?"

I figured this out yesterday, but Liz has known for some time.  The King is controlling the forces from the West in the quest to get all of the Spirit blades.  (At least) one of these is beyond Quarion's Wall, but as the King, he can't just send forces up to attack the Bluestar for no reason, so he has to get the support of the people.  How does he do this?  Have the "Bluestar" attack various cities to rally public support.

There was another reason for this as well, but I can't remember it right now.  Liz?

-Gertie


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## Laurel (Apr 14, 2004)

*anyone want to come play with a recurve bow?*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> The King is controlling the forces from the West in the quest to get all of the Spirit blades. (At least) one of these is beyond Quarion's Wall, but as the King, he can't just send forces up to attack the Bluestar for no reason, so he has to get the support of the people. How does he do this? Have the "Bluestar" attack various cities to rally public support.



Are we going to tell people the con, or bid our time? I know telling anyone now would be tricky, but so could waiting... 
What happens if the king gets/takes the bluestar's blade? Isn't that where his soul is or somethin'?


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## The_Universe (Apr 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Are we going to tell people the con, or bid our time? I know telling anyone now would be tricky, but so could waiting...
> What happens if the king gets/takes the bluestar's blade? Isn't that where his soul is or somethin'?



 If what the King told you is true, then the blade the Bluestar possesses serves as his phylactery.  From what you have gathered, a phylactery is the repository of the Lich's soul, and the ultimate source of his immortality.  

You're not sure what the effect of the King having the blade would be on the Bluestar, if it would have any effect at all.  However, it is thought that the only way to actually destroy the Lichlord is to destroy both his phylactery, and his corporeal body.  

Nonetheless, the King's pursuit of other spiritblades would tend to indicate that he has a larger purpose in mind than simply destroying the Bluestar.  The real question becomes if the falconblade's status as Aregonn Bluestar's phylactery is a coincidence, or if it is somehow intrinsic to what Tain et. al. are doing.


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## Archon (Apr 14, 2004)

*Worst Case Scenario*

the king seeks the bluestar's Phylactery/Blade because it has the power to control him and thus unite the three greatest evils behind the king.
mik aka  "Broken"


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## The_Universe (Apr 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> There was another reason for this as well, but I can't remember it right now.



Remember that the King may have an ulterior motive for getting the armies north of the wall.  It's really not terribly likely that even several hundred thousand soldiers are going to succeed in defeating the Bluestar's forces, let alone acquiring a specific item that it more than likely hidden somewhere in a vast kingdom.  In all likelihood, all those men and women are (un)dead by now.  Those that are not (if any) have more than likely found themselves a new master.  If the price of survival is loyalty, I doubt that many soldiers would find the price too high.  

But, on the bright side, Archonus Bluestar might make some friends!


----------



## Laurel (Apr 15, 2004)

Kennon asked for this a while ago for the website--


----------



## Laurel (Apr 15, 2004)

Here's one about the religion in the world--


----------



## Laurel (Apr 15, 2004)

Okay it posted twice... sorry... server problems -- so hi!


----------



## Laurel (Apr 15, 2004)

*My attempt...*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Hey all,
> 
> An E-mail will be going around *shortly* with an attachment -“Our First Breakfast Club”, and since we are not playing this weekend L I am asking if you could just take a few minutes and read through it, and add your character’s answers and ideas. Also, so we can keep track, just post to the board letting us know when you send this on to the next person and who it is going to (cc-ing Kennon when you forward the updated version on to the next person). I will post the final to the message board as a complete dialogue, if all goes as planned J
> 
> ...



Just to make this a little clearer, but ask if you have any questions-- it is going to Gerti first and then I think she is passing it to Mik and then to Liz, ect..  so it is going to each person one at a time ot add then pass it on (again cc-ing Kennon and posting who it is going to  ).  The hope was this way each person can see what was already written, and then add after those what they would say, thus making it a conversation.  Then at the end it will be posted as a full conversation going back and forth- this should ensure everyone has input and knows what is going on up to that point.
As for word doc., yes, doing another thread would have been the best, but this could still leave certain people.  Basically the only time I have to do most of this stuff is during the day at work.  I have access to enworld, but I just got it through asking a favor and have no idea who long it will stay open.  I am also hoping that by email it does not flood inboxes, and gives each person a chance to see, digest, and respond.  So even Kareth can say 'boo' if he so choses, and keeps a cooler log 

Again, let me know if you still have questions or anything about this-


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 15, 2004)

I understand, Kat!


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 15, 2004)

SOMEBODY!  PLEASE!  Ask me some game-related questions!  Something about the world of Aeres...something about the history....on  hold with tech support at work...need a distraction.  

YARGH!


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## Archon (Apr 15, 2004)

*a little more*

hey kennon can you send me an email telling me more about the Academy and maybe some of the assisted missions i was on before being given my first solo assighnment?
mik aka "Bumblehead"


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## Laurel (Apr 15, 2004)

So Archonus Bluestar could be making friends, and eventually we will be seeing him again.... hmmm.... that will be interesting
So far as I know this is all that has happened since the first breakfast and not discussed in that e-mail:
*Week 1 (days 1-7)*
_-Morning day 1 'Breakfast Club One'_
-Portals (Archonus/L'aurel)
-Plans start (Group)
-Justice flies close to Oceanis
-Scrying of Oceanis (Xath)
-Talk about Bluemages
*Week 2 (days 8-14)*
-Continuation of plan
-More scouts sent out
-Banner finished?
*Week 3 (days 15-21)*
*Week 4 (days 22-29)*
-Messenger from Jaine-morning day 25
-Bloody Dwarves -evening day 25
*Week 5 (days 30-36)*
*Week 6 (days 37-43)*

*Correct me if I am wrong on any of this.  *


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## Laurel (Apr 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So far as I know this is all that has happened since the first breakfast and not discussed in that e-mail:
> *Week 1 (days 1-7)*
> _-Morning day 1 'Breakfast Club One'_
> -Portals (Archonus/L'aurel)
> ...



So far as I know this is what has/is happening


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## The_Universe (Apr 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So far as I know this is what has/is happening



 This is a good baseline, and is accurate, although lacking in detail.  I suggest we use this.  

As for what Archonus Bluestar said (specifically), I believe that the full text of the message is hiding somewhere in your e-mail inboxes.  I wrote it when I was at ANSER, so I don't think I have the text of it here, but if someone can send me a copy, I'll post it.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So far as I know this is what has/is happening




However, there's lots more going on...

The training of the troops... letters to the High Elves... 

I have asked Arfin to make rings that identify the Circle of the Phoenix... but, have yet to get a reply... I know he's busy... but, I'm hoping that that will happen somewhere in there, too.

Justice scouts every day... and learns a lot of new things...

The oath swearing-- does this happen at Breakfast??

If we can move more quickly than week 6 with the sneaking, I would push for that.  The more we know and the faster we know, the better.  However, if week 6 is the earliest, then, we'll stick with that.

Mik is out in the field until today, I think... and so, I'm sure that I'll be able to talk to him about it tonight...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 20, 2004)

*Commune...*

Xath...

When does your first commune conversation happen in the timeline of the stay at Hyrwl?

When does our second?


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## The_Universe (Apr 20, 2004)

*AHA!  I Found it!*

The light coming from the strange dragon-sword of Justice Fairweather fades, and you see the strange, black-skinned, emaciated creatures fleeing from the undoubtedly Holy light of her short ceremony. One of the walking dead that had mere moments ago assaulted you leaps off the cliff into the freezing waters below, apparently in abject terror. Another flees across the cliff face, snapping tendrils trailing behind as it seeks easier quarry than yourselves. 

Arfin Kegsplitter, once a member of the Nobles’ Council, looks across the chaos of a city under siege. He takes a deep breath, looks over his battered and bloodied companions and says, “Shall I make a Wish, friends?”
As his gaze slides from one to the next, each in turn, they begin to nod. Oceanus must be saved, and it may take the power granted Arfin by the Deck of Many things, once encountered in their dreams, to keep the people of this once-great city safe. Justice does not nod, but nor does she shake her head. Whatever happens now shall be irrevocable…Arfin finds himself hoping, begging, pleading with the spirits of his ancestors to grant him wisdom in this time of crisis. 

He opens his mouth to speak. Before the first, tiny breath can escape a mouth that, in personal triumph, has not tasted ale in weeks, light flashes on the cobblestone street near Oceanus’s great drydocks. Arfin lets out a cry, and the rest of the group moves to cover their temporarily blinded eyes. As the light fades, a man stands where the light appeared—a familiar face resolving out of the now-dimming light. 

The figure wears black armor; a skull with blue-starred eyes stares out, emblazoned upon his chest. A dark purple cloak lays limp across his back, clasped at his shoulders with a golden brooch, also in the shape of a skull. Two swords sit, sheathed at his hips, and long, dexterous fingers clasp them by the hilts. 

It is the face, however, that shocks you. Staring out from beneath a shadowed cloak are the eyes of a friend—the eyes of Archonus Areandor. The scar of his heritage seems somehow brighter on his face, and the blue birthmark that has so dominated his actions for all the time that you have known him seems to blaze as he begins to speak. 

He nods to the figure in the crimson mask, to the Archonus that you have fought beside for months. A look of sadness and regret seems to cross his face, but his features quickly harden, and he turns toward Arfin. “I do not have much time,” he says, in a voice that cannot help but be familiar to you. “Arfin, do not speak! The world you would create is far more terrible than you can know…”

Before the strange Archonus that has appeared can speak more, the crimson-masked Archonus steps forward, pulling down his mask to uncover his unchanged face. Obviously stunned, he speaks to the apparition. “Who in the name of the Light are you?”

Grimacing, almost as if he has lived this moment before, and had become annoyed with its predictability, the dark Archonus speaks once more, “I am the Sword of the North, the last son of the True Line. My family’s line is that which binds this red world of war and death to the blue star that ever hangs in the night sky. I am a servant of my blood, and no more. Though I was once you, I am now Archonus Bluestar, and you would do well to fear me.”

Turning his attention once more to the stunned Dwarven warrior, he draws his swords in a single, smooth motion. “Arfin, promise me that you will utter no wishes, that you will not speak the desires as granted you by those infernal cards! Arfin, promise me, or I shall end your life to prevent you from bringing Hell itself to this world!”

Stunned, Arfin nods. Weighed down by a power that he has, but knows now he shall not use, he hangs his head in shock and confusion.

The dark Archonus begins to fade before your eyes. As he does, his weakening voice nonetheless cuts to the very core of your hearts, leaving an icy wedge in your spirits. “It will serve you well to fear me, friends, for this is the last time that my words carry anything less than death! The force before you is not from the hand of my father, but he shall slumber no longer! The wings of the dark serpent shall encompass the earth, and on that day you shall beg for the light of a blue star! Beware! The western darkness has come, and soon the north shall fall upon you, as well! Beware! Beware…..”


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 20, 2004)

*Conversations with Fr. Dorn...*

Justice visits Fr. Dorn each day... bringing him lunch... sitting with him quietly... drinking her tea...  Sometimes, they play chess... 

However, once a week, they retreat to Link's practice room... armed with wooden practice swords... he basically kicks her butt over and over again...

However, with the sword in his hand, he becomes much more lucid... and Justice learns some interesting things...

Attached are the two full speeches I've gotten from him...

More to come...


----------



## Laurel (Apr 20, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> However, there's lots more going on...
> The training of the troops... letters to the High Elves...



If L'Aurel has a say the letters to high elves with high elves delivering it (as the duke recommended), go out within the first week --depends on drafts and such. But the bluemage stuff she would wait on, unless someone forges her name 



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I have asked Arfin to make rings that identify the Circle of the Phoenix... but, have yet to get a reply... I know he's busy... but, I'm hoping that that will happen somewhere in there, too.
> Justice scouts every day... and learns a lot of new things...
> The oath swearing-- does this happen at Breakfast??



The oath swearing is in the breakfast as an option/possibility, but it can happen whenever though.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> If we can move more quickly than week 6 with the sneaking, I would push for that. The more we know and the faster we know, the better. However, if week 6 is the earliest, then, we'll stick with that.
> 
> Mik is out in the field until today, I think... and so, I'm sure that I'll be able to talk to him about it tonight...



For my vote, I am fine with it happening before week 6, but after Jaine & co. get to Hywrl. The week six part was so farathier could finish training the t-rex for mounted combat. I will also need it for training Bob the giant eagle --more to come on that one hopefully--  
As for the rest -if you could just post what you guys decide tonight, or whenever Mik gets back.
Thanks!


----------



## Laurel (Apr 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The dark Archonus begins to fade before your eyes. As he does, his weakening voice nonetheless cuts to the very core of your hearts, leaving an icy wedge in your spirits. “It will serve you well to fear me, friends, for this is the last time that my words carry anything less than death! The force before you is not from the hand of my father, but he shall slumber no longer! The wings of the dark serpent shall encompass the earth, and on that day you shall beg for the light of a blue star! Beware! The western darkness has come, and soon the north shall fall upon you, as well! Beware! Beware…..”



 I think we should also send a letter asking the bluestar for help, and how Arhconus Bluestar is doing and if he is making lots of new friends


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 20, 2004)

1) Bluemage stuff should go out as soon as possible.  It takes time for people to travel from wherever they are to wherever you are, and the sooner they arrive, the sooner you can start to integrate them into your force structure.  A few of these will be able to just teleport to where you are, but those will be few and far between...you need to allow travel time in your plans, and the longer you wait, the less useful they will be.  At the moment, about 20 of the 100 (or so) mages you have in New Oceanus are actually Bluemages, masquerading as Redmages.  If they are discovered (and the increased proximity of a refugee camp makes this more likely) they will be lynched, unless the people have a reason not to do so.  

2) Oathswearing is ESSENTIAL, and needs to happen ASAP in the timeline.  There is no reason to delay this, at all.  

3) Animal training can be complete by Week 5 for Yoshi, and the proper amount of weeks for the eagle, depending on when you start.  I still think the eagle should be be named Sam, after the muppet, but it is your eagle.

4) If you're serious about asking the Bluestar for help, let me know.  I'll detail his response here on the boards.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> If L'Aurel has a say the letters to high elves with high elves delivering it (as the duke recommended), go out within the first week --depends on drafts and such. But the bluemage stuff she would wait on, unless someone forges her name





I think that waiting anymore than until the end of week 2 to send out a message for the Bluemages is a very bad idea...

First, we have to give time for the message to spread.

Second, we have to give time for the Bluemages to travel to us.

Third, we cannot afford to have them NOT here.  We need there for a whole bunch of reasons...
-They can help in building a magical wall around Hyrwl.
-They can help with the Sneakery into Oceanus.
-They can help with the getting of Jaine (Xath's 9 minutes of invisibility is not going to cut it).

Fourth, don't think anyone is fordging your signature... however, Randall's name needs to be on it, too, I think...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 20, 2004)

So-- we need money...

Where can we get that money, you ask?

Well-- we can send raiding parties into Oceanus and jack some money from then...

AND/OR!

We can send a letter to our friends the Rhynns and ask them for money... they're a trade heavy noble family and they seem to have quite a bit of money...
We can ask them to come chill with us in Hyrwl or, just to find a way to send us the money.

This applies to any other noble family that we have some connection to, as well... 

More to come later... back to work on my paper.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 20, 2004)

The Cannon:

So, here's the deal...

If we're going to try to steal one, we're going to need a really really really big portable hole, methinks...


----------



## Archon (Apr 20, 2004)

*hiatus*

....ohmygod! i'm gone for a weekend and you guys go crazy. well, i'm back from the field. i've got a couple funny stories and i've read the posts...mostly.
what it boils down to for me is,
awesome. we're starting to work together now, we have some time to plan and i like what we could possibly accomplish. i want to thank everyone for keeping the story going even though we haven\t gamed in....wel it's been awhile. 
Archon wants to not dress up what we're doing. we are rebels. lets rebel. once we show everyone we have the "raz-matazz" to say "eat my shorts!" to the king, people will show up for the right reasons. to take down the evil king and to save the world from "the Shadow." 
we rock n' roll.
lets rock n' roll.
mik aka "simply built."


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 21, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Archon wants to not dress up what we're doing. we are rebels. lets rebel. once we show everyone we have the "raz-matazz" to say "eat my shorts!" to the king, people will show up for the right reasons. to take down the evil king and to save the world from "the Shadow."
> we rock n' roll.
> lets rock n' roll.
> mik aka "simply built."




I agree, Mik!

It's important to let that be known.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 21, 2004)

Liz and I didn't get much work done on the timeline, last night.  Using Kat's baseline, feel free to post a version with all the stuff you know happened filled in.  Does that make sense?  

I sent out the weekly game e-mail, which is dire, to say the least.  It looks unlikely that we'll get anything done this weekend...maybe next week during the week we can get some of the side stuff started and finished?  

Keep me updated.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 21, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So-- we need money...
> 
> Where can we get that money, you ask?
> 
> ...



 Even the Rhynns may not just send you some money, as that is VERY risky.  A loan would be far more likely... Just think--your rebellion could end with the creation of modern banking on Aeres!  Exciting! *shifty eye*


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 21, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Liz and I didn't get much work done on the timeline, last night.  Using Kat's baseline, feel free to post a version with all the stuff you know happened filled in.  Does that make sense?
> 
> I sent out the weekly game e-mail, which is dire, to say the least.  It looks unlikely that we'll get anything done this weekend...maybe next week during the week we can get some of the side stuff started and finished?
> 
> Keep me updated.





Indeed, if there is going to be a solid, detailed timeline made; y'all need to send out the times when you are doing things.

You can post them or email them to me-- either way works.

Thanks!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 21, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Even the Rhynns may not just send you some money, as that is VERY risky.  A loan would be far more likely... Just think--your rebellion could end with the creation of modern banking on Aeres!  Exciting! *shifty eye*




I didn't figure they would just ship it off to us...

It is risky... but, what have we done that isn't really??

I think it's a risk worth taking... we can offer them interest... or they can simply bank on the fact that, if we win--using their money-- they will be the royal family...


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 21, 2004)

They will be distant cousins of the royals, with the same last name...really, they are as close to the throne with Tain sitting on it as they would be with Jaine.  They have only risen to prominence within the house of Rhynn because Tain had the patriarch killed, and drove Jaine into hiding.  

Nonetheless, they seem committed to the Nobles' Council, or at least they did the last time you saw them.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 21, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> They will be distant cousins of the royals, with the same last name...really, they are as close to the throne with Tain sitting on it as they would be with Jaine.  They have only risen to prominence within the house of Rhynn because Tain had the patriarch killed, and drove Jaine into hiding.
> 
> Nonetheless, they seem committed to the Nobles' Council, or at least they did the last time you saw them.




What was going on when we saw some of the Rhynns rallying in the streets at the beginning of the game?

Would these people be contactable?  Or would can I assume they've been executed by now for treason?


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 21, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> What was going on when we saw some of the Rhynns rallying in the streets at the beginning of the game?
> 
> Would these people be contactable?  Or would can I assume they've been executed by now for treason?



 Heh.  The Rhynns were trying to rally popular sentiment against the King, because he had consistently tried to take power from the Nobles' Council.  In fact, he had threatened to disband the council after they attempted to reduce the size of the standing army in the Kingdom.

Lord Rhynn the younger was the agitator.  His brother helped break up the riot...and the Lieutenant Rhynn is now with Jaine.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 21, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Heh. The Rhynns were trying to rally popular sentiment against the King, because he had consistently tried to take power from the Nobles' Council. In fact, he had threatened to disband the council after they attempted to reduce the size of the standing army in the Kingdom.
> 
> Lord Rhynn the younger was the agitator. His brother helped break up the riot...and the Lieutenant Rhynn is now with Jaine.



WHOA! Finally training over for today!!! So now I can bother you guys. 
For the above: We can always try to send them something, as one even tripped a guard chasing me after the execution fun.  So there are some that may help, but not many that will stand up and say 'I am a traitor to Tain'  So we could even try to tailor the letter to that... they could help annonymously or something...


----------



## Laurel (Apr 21, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> ....ohmygod! i'm gone for a weekend and you guys go crazy. well, i'm back from the field. i've got a couple funny stories and i've read the posts...mostly.



Welcome back!


----------



## Laurel (Apr 21, 2004)

*Day 4 for L'aurel*

Okay, so you don't have to read this, but I was bored yesterday and typed this up.  Nothing big, but if you see a big eagle flying around no shooting it!!! And after initial introductions I am keeping Yoshi and Bob apart


----------



## Laurel (Apr 21, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So-- we need money...
> 
> Where can we get that money, you ask?
> 
> ...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Archon (Apr 22, 2004)

*for services rendered*

ok. so we get the noble's council to chip in. i'm sure they won't mind seeing the king go and a new queen, sympathetic to their needs, put in place. if they want it done it's going to cost them.
it'll cost them their money, but more importantly their loyalty to the Army of the Pheonix.
mik aka "D.J. Patchy"


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Archon (Apr 22, 2004)

*"Shadows of the Pheonix"*

Archon doesn't mind training the SpecOps if you think that'd be appropriate. 
SpecOps names....
Shadows of the Pheonix (S.O.P.)
Knights of the Flames Shadow (K.F.S.)
Shades
Pheonix Rangers (P.R.)
Silent Core (S.C.)
you get the idea.


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 22, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Archon doesn't mind training the SpecOps if you think that'd be appropriate.
> SpecOps names....
> Shadows of the Pheonix (S.O.P.)
> Knights of the Flames Shadow (K.F.S.)
> ...




  Your certainly up there on the training rotation, what with your sneakiness and combat ability, but I imagine it will require the combined talents of most of the group to give them training in all the areas they will need, going off my initial suggestion for squad layout:

5 Swordsmen
4 Archers
1 Medic

They will need expert training in their primary weapon (sword or bow), good training in their secondary weapon (ranged or close, depending on specialty), plus some medical training.  I'm not sure whether the medic needs to be cleric (White Mage?) or not, though that would certainly help, but the medic does need to be about as combat competent as the rest.  Kaereth may also provide some training in unarmed and Xath could certainly impart some lessons in deception.  At least as I have it in my head, this is all necessary to some degree or other because they are supposed to be small groups capable of intelligent independent action, capable of acting on their own initiative.  Maybe this is too much to ask, but that's how I have it in my head.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

I think the Warrior Academy idea is waiting for some definition.  I can help with that, or not, depending on how much you all want to do yourselves.  

On another note, any ideas on building a wall, or something?  At the moment, people can enter and leave camp without being observed VERY easily.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 22, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> ok. so we get the noble's council to chip in. i'm sure they won't mind seeing the king go and a new queen, sympathetic to their needs, put in place. if they want it done it's going to cost them.
> it'll cost them their money, but more importantly their loyalty to the Army of the Pheonix.
> mik aka "D.J. Patchy"




Exactly what I was thinking, Mik.

On another note, the Warrior Acad. is supposedly happening-- I think that it's in the breakfast email... that will eventually go out to everyone... but, I'm not really sure.

But-- Tim and Greg's characters are training warriors.

I hope that Kaereth is sharing the ways of Zen with the world...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think the Warrior Academy idea is waiting for some definition.  I can help with that, or not, depending on how much you all want to do yourselves.
> 
> On another note, any ideas on building a wall, or something?  At the moment, people can enter and leave camp without being observed VERY easily.




I would like the new wizards that will supposedly be coming into our camp b/c of the amnesty to work on the wall just as much as the carpenters in the city-- it should be magical as well as physical...

Anyone know anything about magical walls?  Maybe something about how the wall to the north was built... if we could rig it so that no one without a soul could pass... or no one with scales could pass... that'd be nice...


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Your certainly up there on the training rotation, what with your sneakiness and combat ability, but I imagine it will require the combined talents of most of the group to give them training in all the areas they will need, going off my initial suggestion for squad layout:
> 
> 5 Swordsmen
> 4 Archers
> ...



I don't think it's too much to ask of them. Here's what I would request for SpecOps (and eventually for line troops, as well): 

If you're going to go with 10 man squads, do me a favor and stat up a squad. Either use VERY legible handwriting and character sheets, or do it stat-block style on the computer. Stat them up with the "standard" array for NPC stats as found in the DMG (I forget what page), and show me what a Shadow of the Phoenix squad looks like. These are better than average troops, so make them Effective Character Level 2-3, with one of the members being a corporal. He can have 1 more hit die than the rest of them, but should either be the cleric, an archer, or a swordsman... 

They should be mostly elves and half-elves, but there can be some humans, orcs, hobgoblins, etc. 

Give them whatever classes you want, and give them feats and skills as if they had been trained as mentioned above. They should have some deception skills, improved unarmed strike as imparted my Kaereth, etc. 

Really, you only need four sets of stats:
1) Standard SoP Archer
2) Standard SoP Swordsman
3) Standard SoP Medic
4) SoP Squad Leader/Officer

These then become the blanket stats for your squads.  Naturally, some experienced squads will develop different stats and some individual personality as they "adventure" under your orders...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 22, 2004)

Options for Wallage:  (cost shown is per section... one section is = 800 sq. feet)

Adamantine:

Thickness:
6"

Hardness:
20

HP:
240

Break DC:
46

Climb DC:
25

Cost:
3000 gp

Iron:

Thickness:
6"

Hardness:
10

HP:
60

Break DC:
33

Climb DC:
25

Cost:
600 gp

Living wood:

Thickness:
1'

Hardness:
5

HP:
120

Break DC:
26

Climb DC:
21

Cost:
200 gp

Masonry, reinforced: 

Thickness:
2'

Hardness:
8

HP:
360

Break DC:
15

Cost:
450 gp

Mithral: 

Thickness:
6"

Hardness:
15

HP:
180

Break DC:
41

Climb DC:
25

Cost:
2000 gp

Stone, hewn:

Thickness:
6'

Hardness:
8

HP:
1080

Break DC:
164

Climb DC:
22

Cost:
600 gp

*Hewn Stone may not be an option in our location....


Wood: 

Thickness:
1'

Hardness:
5

HP:
120

Break DC:
26

Climb DC:
21

Cost:
100 gp

There are several types of augmentations that can be done to the wall, as well... just a couple of examples...

-Windguard: winds prevent ranged projectile attacks
-Holy Guarding: good characters get bonuses when behind/on top of wall
-Incendiary veil: provides concealment, burns intruders
-Magically treated: +20 to Break DC, doubles hardness and HP

All of these augmentations are pretty pricey, so we need to focus on just getting a wall built first, I think... but, that will be determined when we know how much the wall will actuall cost...

I'm in the process of finding out how large the wall will need to be... just thought I'd share this information with y'all to get some input on what kind of wall you think is best....


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I don't think it's too much to ask of them. Here's what I would request for SpecOps (and eventually for line troops, as well):
> 
> If you're going to go with 10 man squads, do me a favor and stat up a squad.




  Will do, though after I get this week out of the way.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Will do, though after I get this week out of the way.



 That will be soon enough.   

Also, gender is not an issue--they can be male or female, whatever you want.  Think of these guys as something similar to stock units in an RTS game, like Warcraft.


----------



## Archon (Apr 22, 2004)

*PC or NPC?*

are the "Shadows" s'posed to be NPC classed or PC classed? cause i'd like to take a crack at writting up their stats as well.
mik aka "opossum junkie"


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

The Shadows should be PC classed.  Medics can be clerics, if you'd like.  Swordsmen and Archers can have any combination of classes, but Ranger seems a good choice for any of them...officers maybe have an extra level of rogue?  I don't really care how you set 'em up, but your Shadows should be more powerful than any of the normal line troops.

  Remember that if you decide to make any of the troops more powerful humanoids to adjust their level as such.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Options for Wallage:  (cost shown is per section... one section is = 800 sq. feet)
> 
> Adamantine:
> 
> ...



 This is a great start--you've got people who can probably help make any of these walls, with the possible exception of "living wood." (That might require some more powerful magic than you currently have at your disposal).  The problem will more than likely be material.  It's really easy to find wood in the forest, but other types of walls are going to be harder to acquire.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 22, 2004)

*Letters--*

Letter to King- day 2
Letter to Surrounding Cities- day 2
Letter to High Elves- day 2
Letter to Dwarves- day 2

Letter to Noble's Council- day 5
Letter to Rhynn Family- day 5

Letter to Bluemages- L'Aurel needs a speech (prepared before hand by the group given by someone with more cha.) to the people of hywrl telling them about king and amnesty.  Once this is done to the groups satisfaction L'aurel will let it proceed.  L'aurel knows they are needed, but we do have magic users here currently and with the stones they are stronger -not high level or anything, but we are not without magic right now.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> This is a great start--you've got people who can probably help make any of these walls, with the possible exception of "living wood." (That might require some more powerful magic than you currently have at your disposal). The problem will more than likely be material. It's really easy to find wood in the forest, but other types of walls are going to be harder to acquire.



Also, we still have the magical thorny wood wall as a fall back inner wall, and I would hope we are keeping guards up there, some of the militia!  So yes-the gate is open, but we did not tare down the old wall for Hyrwl.  
We might get help from the dwarves with stone...


----------



## Laurel (Apr 22, 2004)

*going backward sorry-*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> 1) Bluemage stuff should go out as soon as possible. It takes time for people to travel from wherever they are to wherever you are, and the sooner they arrive, the sooner you can start to integrate them into your force structure. A few of these will be able to just teleport to where you are, but those will be few and far between...you need to allow travel time in your plans, and the longer you wait, the less useful they will be. At the moment, about 20 of the 100 (or so) mages you have in New Oceanus are actually Bluemages, masquerading as Redmages. If they are discovered (and the increased proximity of a refugee camp makes this more likely) they will be lynched, unless the people have a reason not to do so.



Due to the above mentioned possibility of lynching, this tells me we need to have a really good cha. check and speech laid out for telling the people of hywrl about the amnesty.  These people were brought up to think a certain way, and we have to change that in minutes or at least open thier minds to it in minutes, which yes for a mob is not hard but not guaranteed.  Ideally L'aurel would wait until the amnesty could be put in with the speech of 'king is bad, we are rebels', but I know this needs to be done ASAP so she is not going to stop the letter being sent out, just the speech HAS to be done first- with the group preparing it, so it has the best chance of sucess nothing impromtu. 
-so possability-
Day 5 -Xath & Justice talk to orc guard
Day 6 -Speech to hyrwl -free oceanis, king bad, we rebels, new queen, amnesty for blue mages
Day 7 -Letter to bluemages goes out
Day 25/6 -Jaine enters city as queen



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> 2) Oathswearing is ESSENTIAL, and needs to happen ASAP in the timeline. There is no reason to delay this, at all



Okay, it's in the breakfast club it will happen there. (morning Day 1)



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> 3) Animal training can be complete by Week 5 for Yoshi, and the proper amount of weeks for the eagle, depending on when you start. I still think the eagle should be be named Sam, after the muppet, but it is your eagle.



Cool! I only need five weeks for the mounted stuff, since he comes with a trick already.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

*Some Clarifications and Answers*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Due to the above mentioned possibility of lynching, this tells me we need to have a really good cha. check and speech laid out for telling the people of hywrl about the amnesty. These people were brought up to think a certain way, and we have to change that in minutes or at least open thier minds to it in minutes, which yes for a mob is not hard but not guaranteed. Ideally L'aurel would wait until the amnesty could be put in with the speech of 'king is bad, we are rebels', but I know this needs to be done ASAP so she is not going to stop the letter being sent out, just the speech HAS to be done first- with the group preparing it, so it has the best chance of sucess nothing impromptu.



Definitely a good idea.  The sooner the better.  As a general note, can you edit your original timeline with the latest idea of when various things are happening inserted, and post that?  I think it would help people get an idea of what is happening when.     



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Day 5 -Xath & Justice talk to orc guard



You mean the orc paladin?  I am just not sure who you're talking about, here.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Day 25/6 -Jaine enters city as queen



I believe the messenger showed up on Day 25/26, which means Jaine is not expected to arrive until a week later.  On Day 25, she could theoretically be anywhere between Avallach and Hyrwl/New Oceanus, so at best you'll probably get her to you somewhere around day 30.  If she is not stopped (by you or someone else), she'll arrive around Day 32.  




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay, it's in the breakfast club it will happen there. (morning Day 1)



Awesome.  

I don't think any of the rest of the stuff in this post requires commentary from me.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Also, we still have the magical thorny wood wall as a fall back inner wall, and I would hope we are keeping guards up there, some of the militia!  So yes-the gate is open, but we did not tare down the old wall for Hyrwl.
> We might get help from the dwarves with stone...



 A couple of notes (which you might already know), as well as some information Liz asked me to figure out:  

The refugees are not in Hyrwl.  They would not fit inside the walls.  Nor are they camped in a circle around Hyrwl.  "New Oceanus" is centered about a mile north of Hyrwl, around Link's home, which is serving as a temporary Ducal palace for Duke Greyclaw, and a base for some of your activities, as well.  The refugee camp, even though it is little more than ramshackel huts and tents, dwarfs Hyrwl by several orders of magnitude.  Even though you only got a small portion of the people of Oceanus to follow you, you still have a camp with over 13000 people inside it.  By contrast, Hyrwl has a population that is only around 1000. 

The camp stretches in a roughly circular pattern around Link's treehouse with a 3/4 mile radius.  In short, at their closest points, Oceanus and Hyrwl are 1/4 mile from eachother. 

That's the way things are at the moment, and it is CROWDED.  But, let's assume that things are going to stay this way for a while.  With a 3/4 mile radius, your camp takes up a little more than 1.75 square miles.  In order to get a wall around the thing, you need a wall about 4.75 miles long to surround it.  If walls are "purchased" in 800 foot sections, you'll need 32 sections to surround the camp.  

If you want to leave room for more refugees, space for your army to train, etc., you're going to need more room than that.     

Relin Greyclaw, the former Regent of the Barony at Hyrwl had enough power to create a wall of thorns across the gates in Hyrwl.  If you use him, he can make walls in 100 foot sections, at a rate of 2 sections per day, assuming you have him doing nothing else.  Nonetheless, the remainder of the wall around Hyrwl is stone, more than likely also magic.  If he expended all of his magic every day on the project, it'd still take him nearly 5 months to get a wall up (although less time if there were other druids in the area that could cast the spell).  

On another note, it's been so long since I did basic geometry that I had completely forgotten how to figure out the circumference of a circle.  The above calculations seriously took me almost a half an hour.  I am retarded.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 22, 2004)

*Update :: Timeline*

Okay, still lots left out of the timeline, but it now has a little more at least. Feel free to change/add anything, cuz I know some of my dating/timing is off! J There are some things that may still be in question as to if they are happening, but they are things L’Aurel or someone else has expressed wishing done JJJJ So I put them in! 

*Week 1 (days 1-7)*
day 1- Breakfast Club One 
day 1 -Oath of allegiance 
day 1 -Plans start 
day 1- Masks -If we do not have them: someone gets deep, deep red cloth and makes masks 
day 2 -Letter to King sent 
day 2 -Letter to Surrounding Cities sent
day 2 -Letter to High Elves sent
day 2 -Letter to Dwarves sent 
day 2 -Justice starts her daily(?) flights to scout Oceanus 
day 2- Farathier sets up his training grounds 
day 3 -Group talks about Bluemages amnesty 
day 4 -Someone (at least 1 ex-talon and Xath) talks to Duke and Orc military leader (about Jaine and us- all of it) 
day 4 –Bob, the giant eagle arrives
day 5 –Portal discovered 
day 5 -Scrying of Oceanus 
day 5 -Letter to Noble's Council sent
day 5 -Letter to Rhynn Family sent 
day 5 -Official start of the military academy 
day 6 -Speech to Hywrl (Xath w/help from all)- free oceanis, king bad, we rebels, new queen, amnesty for blue mages 
day 6 -Scouts go out on their own into surrounding area
day 7 -Letter to Bluemages sent


*Week 2 (days 8-14)* 
day 8 -Start construction of wall or at least makeshift wall
day 8 -More scouts sent out in all directions


*Week 3 (days 15-21)*


*Week 4 (days 22-29)*
day 25 -Messenger from Jaine
day 25 -Bloody Dwarves


*Week 5 (days 30-36)* 
day 36 -Yoshi and Bob trained for mounted combat! 

_*Things I know are happening, but not when--*_ 
_day ? –Justice chat 1 sent around w/Father Dorn_ 
_day ? -Justice chat 2 sent around w/Father Dorn_ 
_day ? - First attempt of special ops into Oceanus_ 
_day ? -Banner finished (Justice)_ 
_day ?- attempt to get Jaine _
_day ? -communing w/the heavens part 1_ 
_day ? -communing w/the heavens part 2 (?)_ 
_day ?- Rings of the phoenix (Arfin)_
_day? –Jaine & Co. arrival_


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

*This post was unncessary, and a duplicate of the one before Kat's.*

Double post.  Dangit.


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> _day ? - First attempt of special ops into Oceanis_





Depending on what exactly you mean here...

I'm not exactly sure (The Universe may have some info here), but I'm expecting it to take at least 3-4 weeks to:
 1)find the personnel 
2)train them up to the high standards we expect for SpecForces, including operating in slightly larger squads than they're used to 
3)develop missions, brief them and deploy initial units to the field

Depending on how many we find and can train at one time, there may also be a rolling process of training and deployment.  Thus, I estimate our first squad(s) will not be ready until probably the 4th week.

This is not to say that we mighty PC's can't engage in some of these activities earlier, or include a very minor op as part of the training process.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Depending on what exactly you mean here...
> 
> I'm not exactly sure (The Universe may have some info here), but I'm expecting it to take at least 3-4 weeks to:
> 1)find the personnel
> ...



 Four weeks seems a little short, to me.  I think you'd be LUCKY to see operational teams by the end of six weeks.  But, maybe I am way off base.  Jeremiah, Mik, any idea how long this kind of training *really* takes?  I am not sure I have the DnD equivalent information somewhere.  

Hmmm....maybe I'll just start up a thread about it elsewhere on the boards, and let someone else figure it out for me.  

--KCB


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> A couple of notes (which you might already know), as well as some information Liz asked me to figure out:
> 
> Relin Greyclaw, the former Regent of the Barony at Hyrwl had enough power to create a wall of thorns across the gates in Hyrwl.  If you use him, he can make walls in 100 foot sections, at a rate of 2 sections per day, assuming you have him doing nothing else.  Nonetheless, the remainder of the wall around Hyrwl is stone, more than likely also magic.  If he expended all of his magic every day on the project, it'd still take him nearly 5 months to get a wall up (although less time if there were other druids in the area that could cast the spell).
> [/IQUOTE]
> ...


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 23, 2004)

There is an error of sorts in one of my earlier posts, and in one of Liz's.  The prices Liz listed for free-standing walls are for sections of wall only 10 feet tall and 10 feet wide.  Not 800 feet.  So, for a 10 foot high wall, you really have to buy 2560 sections.  

May I suggest that someone among you take the "land-lord" feat (ask me for details), or find a financier.


----------



## Archon (Apr 23, 2004)

*diligent = me*

hey, i wrote up the Shadows sans a squad leader cause, well....i got tired. i'll post the squad leader later.
mik aka "the mikzulla"


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Four weeks seems a little short, to me.  I think you'd be LUCKY to see operational teams by the end of six weeks.  But, maybe I am way off base.  Jeremiah, Mik, any idea how long this kind of training *really* takes?  I am not sure I have the DnD equivalent information somewhere.
> 
> Hmmm....maybe I'll just start up a thread about it elsewhere on the boards, and let someone else figure it out for me.
> 
> --KCB




I used four weeks as a bare minimum, but also because we're asking less of our SpecForces than in the real world.  Real world SpecForces undergo significant cultural and language training for the area they're going to be based in, not to mention training for different terrain type missions and the variety of different weapons they have to be qualified for (including likely opposing forces weapons).  Our guys basically need to be excellent at combat, stealth and some advanced charisma capabilities.
For something on Ranger training:
http://www.baseops.net/militarybooks/armyranger.html
The basic stage is just 3 weeks (but an intense three weeks!).  Granted they go through much more training (another 6 weeks or so), but modern warfare is much more complicated (in terms of the variety of weapons/tactics/technology one must be expert at).  Delta Force training is significantly longer (3-4 week selection course + 6 month Operator training course) but Delta Force and other such elite units are beyond anything we are likely to attain or necessarily require for our mission.

Four weeks may be enough to stand up the first squad, but they may not be fully operational for another 2-3 weeks.  Depending on where the initial recruits start from will also affect how much time is necessary to get them where they need to be.

Mik's stuff looks pretty good, but I'm still going to go through and have a go at it and we can hash out a final version before we play again.

Also Phoenix is spelled like that.  P-H-O-E-N-I-X.  O before E.  Sorry, but that was annoying me.

In a pinch AIM-54 will do, however.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 23, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Depending on what exactly you mean here...



I was more talking about the group -team sneak & co.- infiltration to Oceanis.  This way we do not have to wait however many weeks for an actual group of underlings who can do it.  And can possibly start getting the info, money, and proof talked of earlier.  This was something put in awhile ago to the boards, so I inlcuded it...

But knowing how long before we can use these other people is awsome for planning other missions or other plans.  

For the land-lord feat, I have no idea what the requirements are, but if able L'Aurel can take it (L'Aurel's out for helping with the leadership feat, so maybe she can help with this side)  

As for the wall-- I would vote wood, since it is in abundance and I hope that means we do not have to pay for it.  Stone may be cool to have as a base or for tower support, but that could only happen after/if the dwarves help.  Also, I would say materials like stone would be harder to transport to/from the quarry and may cause problems and time delays.  
Transporting the stone could be a use of the mages if they are willing (and we are not over taxing them already).  Have some travel there so they know what it looks like/travel back/use stones to teleport stone to link's tree, and possibly as help for payment, again if the mages would be willing, have them teleport stone to ships or some small distance that the dwarves may need-- not even sure if this would work, but just a random thought--
I would also say that though a fully magical wall is a little much, have the doors or weak points magical would be a good idea.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 23, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Four weeks may be enough to stand up the first squad, but they may not be fully operational for another 2-3 weeks. Depending on where the initial recruits start from will also affect how much time is necessary to get them where they need to be.
> 
> Mik's stuff looks pretty good, but I'm still going to go through and have a go at it and we can hash out a final version before we play again.
> 
> ...



Four weeks is reasonable for setting up a single squad, I think.  I was balking a bit at the logistics for populating the large Shadow of the Phoenix unit in that time--you can for sure get a single squad ready in that time, if you concentrate on training them, and maybe two.  

AFAIK, Mik still doesn't have the leader of the unit statted out, at all.  I looked at some of his stuff last night, and it seems reasonable, at least.  I'd probably recommend that the squad leader come from the ranks of the 'Blades,' so that you'd end up with 1 leader, 1 medic, 4 swordsmen, and 4 archers.  I also recommend that the leader have some levels of rogue, but that's just me.   

Agreed with the spelling thing.  On another note, Oceanus is spelled with a "U", not an "i".


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## Laurel (Apr 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We really need to be focusing on the actual physical non-magical wall for the moment.
> 
> What kind do we want? Wood? Iron? Input here would be excellent! We cannot bank on the magical wall because it's just going to take tooooo long to try to build.
> And, there are times when Relin's magic is going to be needed for something outside of wall-making... whether that be to cast spells on individuals sneaking into Oceanus or (the Light forbid) we are attacked...
> ...



Okay so along with my above wall stuff "As for the wall-- I would vote wood, since it is in abundance and I hope that means we do not have to pay for it. Stone may be cool to have as a base or for tower support, but that could only happen after/if the dwarves help. Also, I would say materials like stone would be harder to transport to/from the quarry and may cause problems and time delays. 
Transporting the stone could be a use of the mages if they are willing (and we are not over taxing them already). Have some travel there so they know what it looks like/travel back/use stones to teleport stone to link's tree, and possibly as help for payment, again if the mages would be willing, have them teleport stone to ships or some small distance that the dwarves may need-- not even sure if this would work, but just a random thought--
I would also say that though a fully magical wall is a little much, have the doors or weak points magical would be a good idea."

I would also add that wood from the forst is cool, but only so long as we are not clear cutting half the forest... looking back at numbers it may take a serious chunk of the trees around to build a wall for an area we are talking about.
Also, another option:: if we have a huge wall surrounding everything & everyone,  we will also have a huge area now open to prying eyes from above.  What about just making an area for emergency ('sound the alarm') and everyone runs inside a smaller walled area.  Yes this would risk some people could get trapped outside, but that could happen even with the large walled area.  Plus it gives a much easier way to see who is in and out and a tighter defense perimiter.  So things like the warriors academy could be inside, but maybe training grounds outside the walled area?... just another thought.


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## The_Universe (Apr 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I was more talking about the group -team sneak & co.- infiltration to Oceanus. This way we do not have to wait however many weeks for an actual group of underlings who can do it. And can possibly start getting the info, money, and proof talked of earlier. This was something put in awhile ago to the boards, so I inlcuded it...



That works for me.  You guys can start making forays into Oceanus as soon as you feel able--just reminding you, it's dangerous in there.  Let me know when, in the timeline, the next time we play will be--ie, what day in the timeline.  It helps me for planning purposes, and what is happening in the city.   



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> For the land-lord feat, I have no idea what the requirements are, but if able L'Aurel can take it (L'Aurel's out for helping with the leadership feat, so maybe she can help with this side)



The landlord feat has no stat-prerequisites.  The only major stipulation is that you must be at least level 9 to take it.  In essence, it creates "matching funds" for any money you spend on a stronghold from a "patron."  It also might give you some basic money to start building with, but I don't have the feat in front of me.  I think it goes in 25000 GP increments, but don't quote me on that.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> As for the wall-- I would vote wood, since it is in abundance and I hope that means we do not have to pay for it. Stone may be cool to have as a base or for tower support, but that could only happen after/if the dwarves help. Also, I would say materials like stone would be harder to transport to/from the quarry and may cause problems and time delays.
> Transporting the stone could be a use of the mages if they are willing (and we are not over taxing them already). Have some travel there so they know what it looks like/travel back/use stones to teleport stone to link's tree, and possibly as help for payment, again if the mages would be willing, have them teleport stone to ships or some small distance that the dwarves may need-- not even sure if this would work, but just a random thought--
> I would also say that though a fully magical wall is a little much, have the doors or weak points magical would be a good idea.



A combination of wood and packed earth might be the best bet...build a dirt wall/embankment, and then put a wood wall on the top, or something.


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## The_Universe (Apr 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Also, another option:: if we have a huge wall surrounding everything & everyone, we will also have a huge area now open to prying eyes from above. What about just making an area for emergency ('sound the alarm') and everyone runs inside a smaller walled area. Yes this would risk some people could get trapped outside, but that could happen even with the large walled area. Plus it gives a much easier way to see who is in and out and a tighter defense perimiter. So things like the warriors academy could be inside, but maybe training grounds outside the walled area?... just another thought.



This might be a good idea, if you can't scrape together the funds for a real "city" wall. However, part of the reason you need something is to control access into the camp, so that spies can't come and go at their leisure. As a defensive measure, any wall will be only partially effective, since Dragons can fly. However, even stopping infantry can help, a bit.

As for the clear area from the sky, people are using the trees to build themselves rudimentary homes, already--it's hard to hide 13000 people, even in a relatively dense forest.  I wouldn't let this shake you up too bad.  Clearcutting is not happening, nor should it really be necessary...


----------



## Laurel (Apr 23, 2004)

*From long, long ago...*

Cool about not needing to clear cut, since the tree-hugger in L'Aurel would not be happy with that option.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 23, 2004)

*From long, long ago...*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> 3.    In most situations such as this, the economy is reduced to a barter system and takes quite a while to recover. In order to prevent this, the duke and baroness should use the funds allotted (17,100 gp or some part thereof)



Tell me if I am wrong on this, but we have 17,100 gp for the city fund at the start day 1?
How much is left in the bag of holding?  What about giving the rest to the people here, or at least using it to help those here?


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Tell me if I am wrong on this, but we have 17,100 gp for the city fund at the start day 1?
> How much is left in the bag of holding?  What about giving the rest to the people here, or at least using it to help those here?



 I can't speak to how much of your personal funds you have in the bag of holding, but yes--you start out Day 1 with 17000 in communal funds for New Oceanus.  The Duke may be able pool some resources, and when Jaine arrives, she may have some of this stuff figured out.  Everything else is up to you to figure out, but you certainly may be able to attract some free money/loans from people who sympathize with your cause.  

On a general note, I have a question for the group.  How proactive do you want the major NPCs to be?  Is this *your* rebellion, or is it more something that you are just attaching yourselves to?  The Duke can really start pulling strings (for instance), but the more he does, the more it will be his settlement and army than yours, if that makes any sense.  Thus far, I have tried to let you guys do most of the management, but it just ocurred to me that you might not find any of this kind of stuff interesting.  If you don't, let me know, and you guys can concentrate on the stuff that IS interesting, whatever that may be.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 23, 2004)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56538

This is a cool, genuinely scary thread.  It's about peoples' experiences with the supernatural.  Much of it is ridiculous, but it's an entertaining read if you get bored at all.


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## Laurel (Apr 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I can't speak to how much of your personal funds you have in the bag of holding, but yes--you start out Day 1 with 17000 in communal funds for New Oceanus. The Duke may be able pool some resources, and when Jaine arrives, she may have some of this stuff figured out. Everything else is up to you to figure out, but you certainly may be able to attract some free money/loans from people who sympathize with your cause.
> 
> On a general note, I have a question for the group. How proactive do you want the major NPCs to be? Is this *your* rebellion, or is it more something that you are just attaching yourselves to? The Duke can really start pulling strings (for instance), but the more he does, the more it will be his settlement and army than yours, if that makes any sense. Thus far, I have tried to let you guys do most of the management, but it just ocurred to me that you might not find any of this kind of stuff interesting. If you don't, let me know, and you guys can concentrate on the stuff that IS interesting, whatever that may be.



um... I am okay with NPC's taking over more, so we can go out and hack and slash and kill more or just sneak and run around 
From a personal stand point: There was already a group rebelling, we even took the name of the army from rumours/accusation already there, by helping Jaine she just said 'your are now the generals'. We have just made it possible for a base of operations, and a rallying point (Jaine and Oceanus). But I do not think of it as OUR rebellion... we are more the heroes (Han, etc.) in Star Wars, but not the Mon Mothma or Admiral Ackbar. Does that make sense???


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> um... I am okay with NPC's taking over more, so we can go out and hack and slash and kill more or just sneak and run around
> From a personal stand point: There was already a group rebelling, we even took the name of the army from rumours/accusation already there, by helping Jaine she just said 'your are now the generals'. We have just made it possible for a base of operations, and a rallying point (Jaine and Oceanus). But I do not think of it as OUR rebellion... we are more the heroes (Han, etc.) in Star Wars, but not the Mon Mothma or Admiral Ackbar. Does that make sense???



The Star Wars analogy seems apt.  I'm interested to hear what the rest of the group says, though.  Any thoughts from others?


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The Star Wars analogy seems apt.  I'm interested to hear what the rest of the group says, though.  Any thoughts from others?




I disagree.  I think it is very much our rebellion.  Not perhaps at its roots, but while we may not be the centers of it all the time, its success is necessary for us to ever be more than fugitives (speaking of Harrison Ford roles   Right now, I think, we are its leaders in more ways than one and that the people are looking to us.  I'm not sure we want to get involved in all the adminstration stuff, but I think we should be more than a mercenary addition.  That's just how I see it.  And I apologize if that's not more clear, my head's kinda fuzzy.

Jeremiah aka "Shadow General"


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## The_Universe (Apr 24, 2004)

*Post-Invasion Map of Oceanus*

Legend:

1) Docks, Upper and Lower
2) Navy Base (mostly demolished)
3) Amastacian Temple
4) City Watch (being used for holding cells/pens)
5) Centurion's Forest (clear cut)
6) Army Barracks - formerly used by refugees, now being used by Draconids.  Unknown purpose.
7) Greyclaw Palace
8) Tower of the Red (Outer towers destroyed, main pyramid remains standing)
9) Apectan Cathedral
10) Centurion King Statue (being re-carved--ultimate shape as yet unknown)
11) Amastacia statue (also being modified)
12) Location (in Harbor) of great bone ship.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 24, 2004)

*Also...*

If there are specific places/landmarks you want to make sure you know the location of, tell me, and I will add them to the map attached above.

The wide space between the wall and the city proper is the cleared "no man's land" created by the Draconids.  They seem to be as interested in keeping people from leaving as they are keeping people out.  

The Western Gate is the only actual gate, (the arrow near the bottom of the map points North) and it has yet to open for anyone.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 26, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I disagree. I think it is very much our rebellion. Not perhaps at its roots, but while we may not be the centers of it all the time, its success is necessary for us to ever be more than fugitives (speaking of Harrison Ford roles  Right now, I think, we are its leaders in more ways than one and that the people are looking to us. I'm not sure we want to get involved in all the adminstration stuff, but I think we should be more than a mercenary addition. That's just how I see it. And I apologize if that's not more clear, my head's kinda fuzzy.
> 
> Jeremiah aka "Shadow General"



very cool with this explination if I am getting this right  
I definately do not think we should just run off on our merry way, and we are all generals of the army with Jaine as queen/head/ruler of the army.  The people of the rebellion do look to us, but we are establishing Jaine as Queen and ruler.  Plus, I am not sure how much Kareth would like the admin stuff  Though Jeramiah is great at it 
If we stick with the star wars analogy- Jaine is Mon Mothma, but we are no longer simply fugatives/outlaws--we are now on movie three for roles 
If I got what you were saying above correctly...


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## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

*More on Walls*

For a wall around the entirety of the camp, with it's current size and shape, there are several options. 

1) For a packed-earth wall only 10 feet high, it'd cost you 25080 GP--a relatively small fee--you could sell a couple of items, and call it good. I know somebody has a staff of fire around somewhere, worth at least that much. Packed earth is not very strong, but it is a start. 30 Hit Points per section with DR 2/-. 

If you increase the wall to 20 feet high, the price increases 3-fold, to 75240 GP. DR remains the same, but now each wall has 90 Hit Points. 

2) A wooden wall, 10 feet high, has DR 5/-, and 120 hit point per section. To surround new oceanus, it would cost you 225720 GP. It's harder to climb, and generally superior to packed earth. This is also outside of your immediate means, but by no means impossible. 

3) A combination wall of packed earth on the bottom, and wood on top would have 150 HP per section, be 20 feet high, and cost 250800, total. For all intents and purposes, you'd take an average of the DR, rounding up, which would be 4. A decent wall. 

4) by increasing the price to 301000, you could get a combo packed earth/wood wall with DR 4 and 210 HP/section.  30 feet high.  

****

In general, you need the wall to control access to the camp--packed earth can do that, at least in part. However, adding a wooden wall would be a great idea. The Duke is going to pursue option 3 (barring your objections), assuming he can utilize some of his connections to acquire some funds, even as a loan. What do you guys think?


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## Laurel (Apr 26, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> For a wall around the entirety of the camp, with it's current size and shape, there are several options.
> 
> 3) A combination wall of packed earth on the bottom, and wood on top would have 150 HP per section, be 20 feet high, and cost 250800, total. For all intents and purposes, you'd take an average of the DR, rounding up, which would be 4. A decent wall.
> 
> ...



I am for option 3 as of right now (as I was before). We can see about adding magic to it later to add a little more to it, but this gives us a base for now.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

*Help editing the timeline.*

*Week 1 (days 1-7)*
day 1- Breakfast Club One 
day 1 -Oath of allegiance 
day 1 -Plans start 
day 1- Masks -If we do not have them: someone gets deep, deep red cloth and makes masks (all of the soldiers (except the recent additions like Korienne's forces) take to wearing masks similar to Archon's by the end of week 1--they seem consider them a sign of resolve.)
day 2 -Letter to King sent 
day 2 -Letter to Surrounding Cities sent
day 2 -Letter to High Elves sent
day 2 -Letter to Dwarves sent 
day 2 -Justice starts her daily(?) flights to scout Oceanus 
day 2- Farathier sets up his training grounds 
day 3 -Group talks about Bluemages amnesty 
day 4 -Someone (at least 1 ex-talon and Xath) talks to Duke and Orc military leader (about Jaine and us- all of it) (Orc (Korienne) is questionable, but will wait to meet Jaine before he decide what to do.  Duke is fine with the whole thing. Seems excited at the prospect of adventure...)
day 4 –Bob, the giant eagle arrives
day 5 –Portal discovered 
day 5 -Scrying of Oceanus 
day 5 -Letter to Noble's Council sent (need to see this)
day 5 -Letter to Rhynn Family sent (need to see this)
day 5 -Official start of the military academy 
day 6 -Speech to Hywrl (Xath w/help from all)- free oceanis, king bad, we rebels, new queen, amnesty for blue mages 
day 6 -Scouts go out on their own into surrounding area
day 7 -Letter to Bluemages sent


*Week 2 (days 8-14)* 
day 8 -Start construction of wall or at least makeshift wall
day 8 -More scouts sent out in all directions
_day 8 -Banner finished (Justice) (this is a guess)_
day 9 -communing w/the heavens part 1 
day 10 -communing w/the heavens part 2
day 11 -_Justice chat 1 w/Father Dorn_
_day 14 -Justice chat 2 w/Father Dorn_

*Week 3 (days 15-21)*
_day ? - First attempt of special ops into Oceanus_  (I'd put this sometime in this week)


*Week 4 (days 22-29)*
day 25 -Messenger from Jaine
day 25 -Bloody Dwarves
_day ?- attempt to get Jaine (this needs to happen sometime in this week, if you're going to do it at all)_


*Week 5 (days 30-36)*
day 32 –Jaine & Co.'s expected arrival, assuming no one interferes with their trip
day 36 -Yoshi and Bob are fully trained for mounted combat! 

_*Things I know are happening, but not when--*_ 

_day ?- Rings of the phoenix (Arfin) - This'll be done 1-2 days after Arfin (or whomever) starts the project.  _


_That's what I know, gang.  Fill in more stuff as you please--this should be finalized by the time we play next._


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## Laurel (Apr 26, 2004)

*timeline*

_um.... universe spoke... so .... let me look at that first  _


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## AIM-54 (Apr 26, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> 3) A combination wall of packed earth on the bottom, and wood on top would have 150 HP per section, be 20 feet high, and cost 250800, total. For all intents and purposes, you'd take an average of the DR, rounding up, which would be 4. A decent wall.
> 
> 
> ****
> ...





I concur, I think option 3 is the best, unless something comes up where we can get option 4 
If we do have any extra items and whatnot, we might consider selling them (as mentioned in conjunction with option 1) to help the duke out where we can.  Dunno if that was already assumed or not.

Also playing this weekend=good.  I shall endeavor to have my SoP squad ideas completed by then.


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## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> day 6 -Speech to Hywrl (Xath w/help from all)-






			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> free oceanis, king bad, we rebels, new queen, amnesty for blue mages





I'd actually like to see this, as well.  Is somebody working on it?


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I concur, I think option 3 is the best, unless something comes up where we can get option 4
> If we do have any extra items and whatnot, we might consider selling them (as mentioned in conjunction with option 1) to help the duke out where we can.  Dunno if that was already assumed or not.
> 
> Also playing this weekend=good.  I shall endeavor to have my SoP squad ideas completed by then.



 Selling any and all unused items is a great idea.  Since they're going into a relatively small market, even if you get rid of them, you can be relatively certain that they're still being used for your cause.


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## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

I have opened a new thread in the "Playing the Game" portion of the boards here at EN world for the editing of the "Breakfast Club" document.  The address is below:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1504304#post1504304

Make any adjustments/changes to what you would/did say (same font, different color), and then post the ENTIRETY of the new document in your reply.  I don't want to have to reassemble the whole thing.  This is all in-character discussion, but there are places where that can be ignored (such as Jeremiah actually thinking what Justice says/does).  

Have fun!  As soon as all of you are done with it, we'll put it back in a word document, and send it on to those who aren't using the boards.


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## Laurel (Apr 26, 2004)

Input from Duke is very welcome here- sicne he knows how this works, and possibly what strings to pull and such 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> day 5 -Letter to Noble's Council sent (need to see this)_._





To whom it may concern:
It has no doubt reached your ears by now that the city of Oceanus has fallen to vast forces bearing the banner of the Bluestar. The Barony of Hyrwl has taken in all refugees with open arms, yet our limited resources have put a strain on maintaining such a large group. At last estimates, the Barony now supports upwards of thirteen thousand people. 
The Barony of Hyrwl also writes with glad tidings. The heir of the Woodshadow has shown herself at last and has come to take control of her legacy. I, L'Aurel Woodshadow, now serves as ruler of the newly expanded Barony after the untimely death of the King's appointed Baron Edriss Kiva.
In response to the onslaught of the Kingdom and the king's running to the North, the Army of the Phoenix has pledged to take back the city of Oceanus. I now ask the Nobles Council for aid to help those who wish to stand for the rightful throne, and to stand for a Council with the voice of the kingdom. Signed in view of the Light, L'Aurel Woodshadow Baroness Hyrwl




			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> day 5 -Letter to Rhynn Family sent






			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> (need to see this)_._



To whom it may concern:
It has no doubt reached your ears by now that the city of Oceanus has fallen to vast forces bearing the banner of the Bluestar. The Barony of Hyrwl has taken in all refugees with open arms, yet our limited resources have put a strain on maintaining such a large group. At last estimates, the Barony now supports upwards of thirteen thousand people. 
The Barony of Hyrwl also writes with glad tidings. The heir of the Woodshadow has shown herself at last and has come to take control of her legacy. I, L'Aurel Woodshadow, now serves as ruler of the newly expanded Barony after the untimely death of the King's appointed Baron Edriss Kiva.
In response to the onslaught of the Kingdom and the king running to the North, the Army of the Phoenix has pledged to take back the city of Oceanus. I now ask the Rhynn family for aid to help those who wish to stand for the rightful throne, and against all of those who stand against it. Signed in view of the Light, L'Aurel Woodshadow Baroness Hyrwl 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> day 6 -Speech to Hywrl (Xath w/help from all)-






			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> free oceanis, king bad, we rebels, new queen, amnesty for blue mages




With all of us, Duke, and Korienne (if he will) standing up on balacony::L'Aurel, “People of Hyrwl and New Oceanus! Soon your homes will be free of these invaders thanks to the Army of the Phoenix! We have sent word beyond our walls to tell our story and plead our cause for aid while the king is too busy in the north. We have asked all –ALL- willing to join us in this fight against this plague that is spreading. Many of you have heard the words and wisdom of Lady Xath (or whatever full name she has/is using) who will tell you now what has been proposed and agreed upon” - _obviously in more eloquent speech and more Xathy-_


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

*See, I'm Satan's Onion*

To whom it may concern:
It has no doubt reached your ears by now that the city of Oceanus has fallen to vast forces bearing the banner of the Bluestar. The Barony of Hyrwl has taken in all refugees with open arms.  Yet, the limited resources that the barony has to offer have been severely strained by attempting to sustain such a large group.  At last estimates, a tiny portion of the Barony now supports upwards of thirteen thousand people.
The King's appointed baron, one Edriss Kiva, fell in battle, after defeating a strange doppelganger.  Before his death, he passed on orders from the King: as the throne pursues a fruitless war in the North, the barony is free to gather what resources it can to free Oceanus, and defend the rest of the kingdom on its own.  Thus, from the Palace of the Woodshadow in Hyrwl, the Baroness L'Aurel Woodshadow and the Duke Nayen Greyclaw call out for aid from those who would defend their people.  We have seen the dark invader, and they remain gathered in our sovereign city, even as the throne sends over half of our defenses to the frozen North, beyond our reach.  
An amry already gathers in the Barony of Hyrwl, centered in a city of refugees.  Send us your warriors, your freedom fighters, your gathered strength--for here we will stop this strange enemy, or the kingdom shall fall.
In view of the Light, 
Baroness L'Aurel Woodshadow, Duke Nayen Greyclaw.  

*******
Lord Rhynn,

An army gathers in the Alder's Forest in defense of the true throne, a subject that has been of great interest to you in the past.  Our enemy is poised to extinguish the flames of freedom that even now burn in this long-abandoned barony.  We require aid to free Oceanus, and then to turn our sights on greater enemies.
We have found the true leader of the invasion, and believe we can remedy the taint that has overtaken our ancient throne.  The potential for reward for both your person and your cause is incalculable, as a grateful people wait for sustenance.  The house of Rhynn need not be the only to benefit from defending the free peoples of this kingdom.  If, from the ashes, a Phoneix should rise, those that fanned the flames of righteous war could and would be well rewarded.
There is a single leader we all serve, and it is to her service that you are called. 
In view of the Light,
L'Aurel et. al.

*********


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

The above are just my/The Duke's ideas, and should not be taken as final in any way, shape or form.  I'll let you guys deal with the speech in more detail on your own.  

As far as I know, the plan is still to start with playing Jaine's arrival (triumphant or otherwise), and then go from there.  If you want to stage a mission into Oceanus first, we'll play that first--I just need to know what's up.


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## Laurel (Apr 26, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> As far as I know, the plan is still to start with playing Jaine's arrival (triumphant or otherwise), and then go from there. If you want to stage a mission into Oceanus first, we'll play that first--I just need to know what's up.



If we are hoping to get cannon balls or info. or money out of Oceanus, then it has to happen first --as it would be happening earlier then day 25--
So my vote is for a trip into Oceanus first (time line and game wise)


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 26, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The above are just my/The Duke's ideas, and should not be taken as final in any way, shape or form.  I'll let you guys deal with the speech in more detail on your own.
> 
> As far as I know, the plan is still to start with playing Jaine's arrival (triumphant or otherwise), and then go from there.  If you want to stage a mission into Oceanus first, we'll play that first--I just need to know what's up.





Jaine's arriving around the 25th day, correct?

I propose that we do run a mission into Oceanus, something basic, recon, maybe hit a target of opportunity, or rescue those elves, if nothing else than for morale purposes.  So, hopefully, it doesn't end up taking 8 hours and leaving the arrival etc for another session 

Also, I would like to confirm that Kaereth will be training some monks.  I have this fabulous image of him calmly meditating facing a semi-circle of recruits who are slightly confused by the beginnings of the training...two or three days of learning about ki and another zen goodness...


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

*Who is the Drizzle?*

I got my .pdf of SBG to work!  This time, it is clearly in your benefit: all of the prices listed recieve a general discount of 17% (due to the presence of a nearby monster lair, and the fact that the forest makes you relatively easy to attack).  I believe the 10% discount for wood has already been figured in.  Thus, the option 4 would only cost around 250000 GP, and option 3 would cost about 210,000 GP.  That's a little better...

As for Jeremiah's question, Jaine's messenger arrives on Day 25--you could concievably try to retrieve her any time after that.  Jaine herself would not arrive (unless captured or delayed) until day 32.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 26, 2004)

Oh yeah--

Kaereth can train some monks.  You're not a real charismatic teacher, but you have a few students.  No more than a dozen, I'd say.  (those numbers will come out of the people who can be trained for other stuff)


----------



## AIM-54 (Apr 26, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Oh yeah--
> 
> Kaereth can train some monks.  You're not a real charismatic teacher, but you have a few students.  No more than a dozen, I'd say.  (those numbers will come out of the people who can be trained for other stuff)




Fair enough, but once they're trained, there's nothing preventing them from serving with the militia (where I think they'd be most suitable), correct?


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Fair enough, but once they're trained, there's nothing preventing them from serving with the militia (where I think they'd be most suitable), correct?



 Nothing whatsoever.  As you increase in level, you'll probably even gain more students:  only time will tell, though.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> 3) A combination wall of packed earth on the bottom, and wood on top would have 150 HP per section, be 20 feet high, and cost 250800, total. For all intents and purposes, you'd take an average of the DR, rounding up, which would be 4. A decent wall.
> 
> 4) by increasing the price to 301000, you could get a combo packed earth/wood wall with DR 4 and 210 HP/section.  30 feet high.
> 
> ...




I think that this is, by far, our best option.  It is just a matter of finding the means with which to do so...

Gertie-- would you mind emailing out our list of goods? ... or at least emailing it to me so that I can take a look at what all we have at our disposal?

Thanks!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

*General Request...*

I would appreciate it if y'all could avoid the yellow font on the message boards... my eyes are sensitive and it gives me a bad bad headache..

Thank you!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The above are just my/The Duke's ideas, and should not be taken as final in any way, shape or form.  I'll let you guys deal with the speech in more detail on your own.
> 
> As far as I know, the plan is still to start with playing Jaine's arrival (triumphant or otherwise), and then go from there.  If you want to stage a mission into Oceanus first, we'll play that first--I just need to know what's up.




I think that Jaine's arrival ought to be triumphant-- think, parade in Aladin... 

...with the big elephant and everything...​
And, because I think that, I believe it would be best to wait until when we have everyone together to play out that part of the game... seems to me that everyone should be here for the grand arrival.


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## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I think that Jaine's arrival ought to be triumphant-- think, parade in Aladin...
> 
> ...with the big elephant and everything...​
> And, because I think that, I believe it would be best to wait until when we have everyone together to play out that part of the game... seems to me that everyone should be here for the grand arrival.



 This might be difficult to do, depending on when next we can play with the complete gang.  

Are you doing this first, or making your foray into Oceanus first?  If Oceanus is first, do you have a plan?  Get to making it!


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> This might be difficult to do, depending on when next we can play with the complete gang.
> 
> Are you doing this first, or making your foray into Oceanus first? If Oceanus is first, do you have a plan? Get to making it!



I think for Jaine issue- get her into New Oceanus and let her talk to the Orc guard Korienne and Duke so we get the king's guards there on our side completely. Then we do a big parade/speech/what not, but we can still protect Jaine, have the support of everyone, and get a great party  moral booster! The people don't need to see her arrive, but I do agree that there needs to be something big to say 'Here she is our Queen! yeah!' 

If for some reason we need to do an arrival parade, then I suggest maybe we get her to New Oceanus, have her talk to people, make an announcement our 'Queen is coming in the morning.' Then get her out of city right before hand and THEN have grand entrance with everyone having time to prepare streamers and flower petals or whatever people were invisioning here.

As for everyone being there, I know we have tried not too, but if it is a speech and straight forward, we could just say all were there standing around at the very least- like with the funerals.


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## Xath (Apr 27, 2004)

*Resources*

If any of you were expecting the bag to have some pricy magical items, let me remind you:  We sold most of what we consider to be "expendible" before going on our shopping spree.

Gold and things worth gold: 36147gp

If we sell all of our wands (which I highly object to) we could make at most 60% of 38950.  I think the wands are more useful in their current forms, than as money fodder.

Potions, scrolls, and rings wouldn't give us enough gold to sneeze at, aside from the fact that we use them too often to sell.

We have a masterwork steel drake, a short sword, and a buckler +1.  These are worth at most 60% of their listed price.

The item that would fetch the most money is the Rod of Rulership, sellable at 60% of 60000gp.  However, it's a very useful item, and who do we trust enough to sell it to.

We also have the folding boat.  I would say this is also too useful to sell because we're on a friggen island for crying out loud.  It would sell for a max of 60% of 7200.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

*Infiltration of Oceanus*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> If Oceanus is first, do you have a plan? Get to making it!



As for the foray into Oceanus, I personally would opt for the first to happen within the first few weeks. Since the militia will not be ready, it is us and maybe a few others. But L'aurel wouldn't want to send people into a suicide mission not having/or been willing to go herself. Hopefully, like Jeremiah said, an easy pop-in and out: save some elves, get some coin, get some info., get out. 

I think at last plan- team sneak goes in, have some way for communication, When/if trouble hits mages poof back-up in, or poof others out. 

I would add maybe we want a diversion?? Also to Universe, if we go into Oceanus in say begining of week two or three- what are the defenses then? I am not sure how fast they would be able to make repairs to docks, get space cleared, and so on.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Gold and things worth gold: 36147gp



just so I keep it straight- is this 'things worth gold' including the magical and such items you itimized after this?


----------



## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> We have a masterwork steel drake, a short sword, and a buckler +1. These are worth at most 60% of their listed price.



The short sword and buckler I would say say sell or give to someone in our militia, since they are still down weapons and armor.
As for the steel drake- who is not carrying one?  With it being masterwork one of us should have it-- Farathier or Archonus or Xath maybe??


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> As for the foray into Oceanus, I personally would opt for the first to happen within the first few weeks. Since the militia will not be ready, it is us and maybe a few others. But L'aurel wouldn't want to send people into a suicide mission not having/or been willing to go herself. Hopefully, like Jeremiah said, an easy pop-in and out: save some elves, get some coin, get some info., get out.
> 
> I think at last plan- team sneak goes in, have some way for communication, When/if trouble hits mages poof back-up in, or poof others out.
> 
> I would add maybe we want a diversion?? Also to Universe, if we go into Oceanus in say begining of week two or three- what are the defenses then? I am not sure how fast they would be able to make repairs to docks, get space cleared, and so on.



 Remember that we're counting "weeks" from Edriss's funeral, so 'week 2' is actually week 3 after the invasion.  That being said, the walls/no man's land are completed by the end of what we're calling week 2.  

The docks are still operational (at least in part) throughout the timeline, since only some of the docks fell.  Nonetheless, it's a slightly lower priority project, so I'll say that you have until the end of your 'week 3' before the last of the fallen docks have been repaired.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

*Funding*

My rough calculations:

New Oceanus-------------------- 15,000 GP
Hywrl----------------------------     800 GP
Our gold in bag/selling ----------- 36,147 GP
Donations from surrounding areas-        0 GP
Total*********************  51,947 GP

Donations for academy-----------        ? GP
Acquired from Oceanus------------      ? GP
Donation from Rhynns-------------       ? GP
Donation from noble's Council------       ? GP

Total needed for wall alone: 210,000GP/250,000 GP


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

*Operation: Freedom Oceanus (FO)*

Options for getting into Oceanus:

a- we see if we can capture one/multiple of the curious enemies that are flying above us, then use the beasts and disguses to fly into city as sentry.
b- go down the coast till we hit a lower cliff hight and swim in  
c- we use mages and see if we can poof in  
d- use pop-up boat from coastal area to get close by staying by coast  
e- I use bob/thane and Justice to go find aquatic animals to help us in by underwater means :\ 
f- we just run for the front gate (screaming bloody murder) and see if they nicely open the gates :\ 

I am stopping here since my ideas degrade to ridiculas past this point...and no I do not claim this is even partially a complete list of options, just some ideas I had.


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## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> My rough calculations:
> New Oceanus-------------------- 15,000 GP
> Hywrl---------------------------- 800 GP



Ah!  I see I should have explained that, sooner.  The 'resource limit' I listed when I presented the 'stats' on Oceanus and Hyrwl is not the total amount of wealth they possess.  Instead, it is meant to represent the most valuable good/service that the populace can produce.  Thus, you won't find anything in New Oceanus (unless it's stuff that you brought yourselves) that exceeds a value of 15000 GP, nor could you find anything more valuable than 800 in Hyrwl. 

I hope that clears things up a bit.


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## Archon (Apr 27, 2004)

*yell if your happy*

hmmm....so what exactely are our mission objectives after infiltrating Oceanus?
mik aka "janga lord"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> This might be difficult to do, depending on when next we can play with the complete gang.
> 
> Are you doing this first, or making your foray into Oceanus first?  If Oceanus is first, do you have a plan?  Get to making it!




I personally think that Oceanus should be first...

However it's FINALS week and I have other things that need attention before I can concentrate on D&D...

Moreover, I think that it is very important to have everyone that is venturing into the city in one place to do the planning... message boards are okay for the suggestion of ideas... but, it's hard to actually make the plans here because not everybody has input on the boards...

Is there a time when people could get together to make plans this week?


----------



## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> hmmm....so what exactely are our mission objectives after infiltrating Oceanus?
> mik aka "janga lord"



Objectives:
a- Free some elves
b- find out who is in charge of Oceanus (it is not big giant dragon thing -Sylvator?), what thier inside defenses are 
c- find cannon ball something with royal markings for proof 
d- liberate some funds 
f- stay alive

These proably should not all be in one mission.  We can send militia in on later missions, but these are the objectives that I think have been stated thus far.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

*Mission Objectives*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> hmmm....so what exactely are our mission objectives after infiltrating Oceanus?
> mik aka "janga lord"




1. Discover who is controlling Syvattagor (sp?).

2. Discover where they are taking all the elves.

3. Look for clues as to the location to the blade that is in Oceanus.

4. Look for anything that links the Draconics with the King.

5. Don't get caught.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I personally think that Oceanus should be first...
> 
> However it's FINALS week and I have other things that need attention before I can concentrate on D&D...
> 
> ...



We have done lots of planning thus far through boards, and I was figuring nothing is final even when we play things change.  We would have to go over the plan again when we sit down to play, just to hash out details and make sure everyone is still in agreement and is on the same page.  But we are having a hard time getting EVERYONE together for a game day, so to ask people for a planning day and a game day sill be very difficult/impossible.  
It would be great and terrific to try for though.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

*The Plans... kinda sorta...*

The Plan for getting into Oceanus, right now, looks a little like this:


Things we need:

--We need to find out who can cast invisibility the longest.

--We need to find out who can cast invisibility to undead the longest.

--We need to find out who can cast a non-detection spell the longest.

--We need to find any and all dex. increasing items so that you can be as sneaky as possible.

--We need to make a list of the equipment that Team Sneak will have.

--We need the secret rings or some sort of phoenix password so that, if something were to happen to you, we have some sort of identification to prove you are who you really are.

--We need a way to monitor Team Sneak... "Status" because of the Vow is an excellent option... we still don't have a telepathic link... but, we do know when one of us gets hurt.


So--Things we know...

--We know that Team Sneak will be all hyped-up with invisibility and non-detection spells.

--We know that Thane will carry Team Sneak to the area just outside of no-mans land (where exactly to be dropped off is TBA).

--We can make all the plans in the world for once Team Sneak gets INTO the city... however, I don't know that they will be of much use... Team Sneak is going to have to discuss this, though... they need some sort of hand-talk symbols so that they can communicate, probably...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lastly, is there some spell that allows you to see what another person is seeing?  If so, that could be handy.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

*Greyclaw*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> 3. Look for clues as to the location to the blade that is in Oceanus.



We last know it was headed toward the docks, but that means nothing except it was in the hands of the enemy.  We still have one close range parchment spell of location for Greyclaw, and maybe the mages could widen the spell?  We used the one with greater range before we left the apectin temple.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We last know it was headed toward the docks, but that means nothing except it was in the hands of the enemy.  We still have one close range parchment spell of location for Greyclaw, and maybe the mages could widen the spell?  We used the one with greater range before we left the apectin temple.




Using the scroll may be a bad idea in the city, though. Despite the non-detection spells on you, I don't know if we'd be able to cover up the usage of the scroll...

And, I don't know if anyone on Team Sneak can actually read the scroll...

Can one of you guys?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

*Team Sneak*

Is Team Sneak just going to be Archon and L'Aurel?  Or are we adding Kaereth to the bunch, too?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We last know it was headed toward the docks, but that means nothing except it was in the hands of the enemy.  We still have one close range parchment spell of location for Greyclaw, and maybe the mages could widen the spell?  We used the one with greater range before we left the apectin temple.





Also, was the blade "heading" toward the docks... or was it just located near the docks?

All else fails, Team Sneak needs to see if they can find out where the enemy is keeping the blade in the city, if, in fact, they have it.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 27, 2004)

*SoP*

Here is my take on what our SpecOps teams should look like, although using humans, which are less common than Mik's use of elves.  Nevertheless, since most of these guys will be pulled from the regular army, which has more significant numbers of the other races, it still works.  I've approached it with a somewhat different philosophy than Mik, so we can hash it out, either as a group or between Mik and myself, depending on interest etc, on how the final teams and elven/human components look.
Finally, if we use the terms "Mender" and "Eye" as proposed by Mik, I am forced to tell you that I will be resigning from D&D forever, because those are just too lame for me to handle.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Question 1: Is Team sneak just Archonus and L'aurel??



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> --We need to find any and all dex. increasing items so that you can be as sneaky as possible.



I think Archonus and L'aurel both have spells to also add for hide/move silently/jump/speed/or other necessary things



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> --We need to make a list of the equipment that Team Sneak will have.



Definately- and where or who has what we are not bringing-- just from past, when/if other come into city we need to know what is with who and such.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> --We need the secret rings or some sort of phoenix password so that, if something were to happen to you, we have some sort of identification to prove you are who you really are.



This is something we need anyways, and it can not be jewlery or cloth an actual word or phrase --citing incident of snake Archonus attacking me in treehouse, he had mark over eye without havign seen it...



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> --We need a way to monitor Team Sneak... "Status" because of the Vow is an excellent option... we still don't have a telepathic link... but, we do know when one of us gets hurt.



I posted a  telepathic link thing awhile ago, but not sure if it is DM approved.  Also, is only works for close range (35ft. base) so team sneak could all get it at least -- but as Liz states there is still the issue of back-up having info. too.  There would also be the issue of if Archonus would want/allow someone (a mage or otherwise) inside his mind... 



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> --We know that Thane will carry Team Sneak to the area just outside of no-mans land (where exactly to be dropped off is TBA).



L'Aurel would want Bob, just for ride checks, attacks, mounted combat issues, in case of trouble or what not.  Unless Justice is dropping us off, since she has the bonuses and such for the magical beast and her mount, or if Archonus has awsome ride skills  

--We can make all the plans in the world for once Team Sneak gets INTO the city... however, I don't know that they will be of much use... Team Sneak is going to have to discuss this, though... they need some sort of hand-talk symbols so that they can communicate, probably...[/QUOTE]It had been said earlier that hand signals and movements would have been developed with past combat with group and through the recent hunting trips. 
As for planning- I think more the lines of really broad plan or Archonus 'objective' track.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 27, 2004)

*Planning*

Okay, for the first Oceanus mission we need to pick one, maybe two objectives.  We don't need to get everything done at once, nor are we likely to.  That said I think we make the target liberation of some elves or the capture of some cannonballs.  These are small objectives, yes, but I think we need to start small until we're more certain what we're dealing with, in terms of getting into/out of the city, patrols, how well people are staying hidden etc.
That said, my idea was not for this to be a "Team Sneak" adventure, simply because that's asking for death.  I think we need more than 2-3 people in there in order to achieve our objectives and survive the experience.  Magic will certainly help on the stealth side, but if it hits the fan, we may need more than just stealth and luck.  As it stands, I'm not comfortable enough with the teleportation idea and how feasible it is to trust to that particular exfiltration method. 
Whether we need everyone or everyone wants to go is something else.  Heck, we could bring along a ShadowPhoenix trainee, if it comes down to it.
Finally, there's no reason we have to wait until the second week or whatever to do the first run.  We can do it a day or two after the funeral, before the walls are completed, if that's a concern.
Okay, now back to NATO.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Also, was the blade "heading" toward the docks... or was it just located near the docks?
> 
> All else fails, Team Sneak needs to see if they can find out where the enemy is keeping the blade in the city, if, in fact, they have it.



The exact position was at the amastatian statue, I believe.  Reason we did not try and get it then, since that is essentially at the docks.



We will need to boost the range to the spell we have or make a new parchment spell made or put a location spell somehow on one of us to find Greyclaw. Asking the locals of Oceanus can be attempted, but I don't think will get us far.  So we definitely need something for location...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Okay, for the first Oceanus mission we need to pick one, maybe two objectives.  We don't need to get everything done at once, nor are we likely to.  That said I think we make the target liberation of some elves or the capture of some cannonballs.  These are small objectives, yes, but I think we need to start small until we're more certain what we're dealing with, in terms of getting into/out of the city, patrols, how well people are staying hidden etc.
> That said, my idea was not for this to be a "Team Sneak" adventure, simply because that's asking for death.  I think we need more than 2-3 people in there in order to achieve our objectives and survive the experience.  Magic will certainly help on the stealth side, but if it hits the fan, we may need more than just stealth and luck.  As it stands, I'm not comfortable enough with the teleportation idea and how feasible it is to trust to that particular exfiltration method.
> Whether we need everyone or everyone wants to go is something else.  Heck, we could bring along a ShadowPhoenix trainee, if it comes down to it.
> Finally, there's no reason we have to wait until the second week or whatever to do the first run.  We can do it a day or two after the funeral, before the walls are completed, if that's a concern.
> Okay, now back to NATO.




First, I think that the first mission needs to compile information for the future freeing of Oceanus.  We need to know who is controlling the city.
That will have a large affect on how we train the troops and how our attack on Oceanus will be executed...

Second, Team Sneak has to be small.  They are sneaky.  Justice isn't particularly sneaky, nor is Arfin... I think, putting individuals not made to sneak into the city at this point is a terrible idea.

Third, I'm all for having Team Sneak go in as early as possible... but, we may need to wait for the resources provided by some of the Bluemages that will, hopefully, be coming to the city...


----------



## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

server issues- double post....


----------



## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Here is my take on what our SpecOps teams should look like, although using humans, which are less common than Mik's use of elves. Nevertheless, since most of these guys will be pulled from the regular army, which has more significant numbers of the other races, it still works. I've approached it with a somewhat different philosophy than Mik, so we can hash it out, either as a group or between Mik and myself, depending on interest etc, on how the final teams and elven/human components look.
> Finally, if we use the terms "Mender" and "Eye" as proposed by Mik, I am forced to tell you that I will be resigning from D&D forever, because those are just too lame for me to handle.



I'd love to see the final... but this definitely not my area of experience, so my input would nil and very unhelpful.  You guys seem to be having fun, and know way more about it so have fun  I trust ya!


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> 1. Discover who is controlling Syvattagor (sp?).
> 
> 2. Discover where they are taking all the elves.
> 
> ...



These are sufficient ideas for strategic level objectives, but you need to focus, a bit.  

There are additional questions you need to ask for each of these, that, when answered, will make making a plan much easier.  In addition, it can determine how you're going to try to structure/equip your team.  You may not be able to accomplish all of this stuff in one foray.  Which of the above are immediate priorities, and what can wait a while...? 

1) Where are you going to look for Syvattagor's master, and/or who will you question?

2) Where are you going to start?  At the City Watch?  Elsewhere?  Where are you going to look assuming that they're not there, anymore?

3) Is there anywhere it is likely to be?  Are there known NPCs that would have an idea of its location?

4) You already know that there are things (like cannons and cannonballs) that can do this.  Don't backtrack to looking for "evidence."  You really need to determine how you're going to acquire the evidence you already know exists.

5) This is good, but what you're really looking for is a entry/exit strategy.  What is it?


----------



## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

The Universe said:
			
		

> 5) This is good, but what you're really looking for is a entry/exit strategy. What is it?



Some that I had previously posted-


			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Options for getting into Oceanus:
> 
> a- we see if we can capture one/multiple of the curious enemies that are flying above us, then use the beasts and disguses to fly into city as sentry.
> b- go down the coast till we hit a lower cliff hight and swim in
> ...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> These are sufficient ideas for strategic level objectives, but you need to focus, a bit.
> 
> There are additional questions you need to ask for each of these, that, when answered, will make making a plan much easier.  In addition, it can determine how you're going to try to structure/equip your team.  You may not be able to accomplish all of this stuff in one foray.  Which of the above are immediate priorities, and what can wait a while...?
> 
> ...





My post was not meant to be concrete plan-- just things that we'd like to accomplish... 

The post following it addresses some of the issues that you brought up... however, I'm not sure what the best plan of action is for questions and the like... which is why I think it's very important for Team Sneak to talk about this stuff in the very near future if we are going to actually do this on Saturday.

We need to be able to look at maps and discuss it-- that's really hard to do over the message boards... and, if we wait until Saturday to do it, we won't get any actual gaming done...

I don't think that there's really anyone that we can "ask" anything within the city-- I guess, I could be wrong... but, based on what I've seen in my flights towards the city, I don't think we're going to meet any friendly people just wandering the streets.

Looking for the big boss is going to mean looking the the Duke's palace, I'd assume...

I am certainly not the one to be "planning" the entrance and exit strats... that's definately more up Mik and Jeremiahs alley... Justice is good at the military stuff... and Liz is learning... but, this week is a bad week to try to cram any additional information into my brain...

So, Mik, Jeremiah--what are your thoughts?


----------



## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> There are additional questions you need to ask for each of these, that, when answered, will make making a plan much easier. In addition, it can determine how you're going to try to structure/equip your team. You may not be able to accomplish all of this stuff in one foray. Which of the above are immediate priorities, and what can wait a while...?



Definately, I think Universe and Jeramiah are correct here.  We should focus on one or two main objectives for this mission.  This is not the only foray just the first.



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> 1) Where are you going to look for Syvattagor's master, and/or who will you question?



Well, most obvious is the Duke's palace, and through our scrying and such wehave not seen anyone wondering around that looks to be in charge.  This is also the place that would most likely be the most fortified, protected, guarded.  Maybe when we free some hostages, they will have seen someone in power -maybe used as an errand person/slave or such.  They may have also seen other things or had stories (not the most reliable) of what other actions/demands are being made to other prisoners.
Also, maybe the person in charge is not here phyically... not the most likly option, but an option.  Syvattagor may just have been and is being given a plan via someone not in Oceanus.



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> 3) Is there anywhere it is likely to be? Are there known NPCs that would have an idea of its location?



The duke would be a good one to question re:where is the greyclaw blade, but I think at least the sword has other powers that only the ruler of Oceanus can use... I don't think there fact/proof of this, and this is not the primary reason someone has taken it.  But again, the palace and the greyclaw throne is the most likely place, I would say....



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> 4) You already know that there are things (like cannons and cannonballs) that can do this. Don't backtrack to looking for "evidence." You really need to determine how you're going to acquire the evidence you already know exists.



Taking guns, cannon balls from inside Oceanus-- guns can be taken from people we encounter (if we have altercations),  the cannon balls will be stored in the armory- where was that/do we even know?  Also, around where cannons currently are -on the walls, on ships.  If we go by sea, on the way out we grab a cannon ball from a relatively empty ship.... maybe...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I am certainly not the one to be "planning" the entrance and exit strats... that's definately more up Mik and Jeremiahs alley... Justice is good at the military stuff... and Liz is learning... but, this week is a bad week to try to cram any additional information into my brain...
> 
> So, Mik, Jeremiah--what are your thoughts?




Didn't want this to sound like I was trying to exclude everyone except Jeremiah and Mik... just trying to have the people with the most real world, out of game experience working on the exit strats and stuff so that we don't end up with some HUGE troubles next time we game...

Everyone should have input... just saying that don't exactly have a lot of experience in exit strats so, my input will be of limited use, that's all.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

*Objectives revised...*

So, for the first trip into Oceanus, we need to narrow our objectives...

I would say:

1.  Syvattagor's boss-man is important.

2.  Cannon balls are important-- some sort of physical proof to back up our    cause.

Getting cannon balls/proof is important in rallying our forces.  Syvattagor's boss is important in actually waging war on the Draconids... so, I think that these two objectives would be the best to focus on in the first trip into the city.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

Do we have a detailed map of the inside of the Duke's palace?

... if not, can the Duke draw us one?

If we have our hands on a detailed map, will it be possible for the Mages to poof Team Sneak into the palace? 

... if not, how would this option be possible?


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I have opened a new thread in the "Playing the Game" portion of the boards here at EN world for the editing of the "Breakfast Club" document. The address is below:
> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1504304#post1504304
> Make any adjustments/changes to what you would/did say (same font, different color), and then post the ENTIRETY of the new document in your reply. I don't want to have to reassemble the whole thing. This is all in-character discussion, but there are places where that can be ignored (such as Jeremiah actually thinking what Justice says/does).
> Have fun! As soon as all of you are done with it, we'll put it back in a word document, and send it on to those who aren't using the boards.



Thanks for adding your stuff to the club Mik!


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Do we have a detailed map of the inside of the Duke's palace?
> ... if not, can the Duke draw us one?
> If we have our hands on a detailed map, will it be possible for the Mages to poof Team Sneak into the palace?
> ... if not, how would this option be possible?



This is one for the universe or someone with more knowledge then I have, but..
Some of the mages we have with us have been into the duke's palace.  Maybe not all around it, but some parts at least (hallways, antechambers, throne room, alleyways, etc.)  This would up our chances I think then trying to have them go from a drawn map.    
Also, there may be blocks on teleporting in, remember the scrying block.  Is there anyway to test it first? or I guess the better question what would happen if it is blocked-we just don't go anywhere?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> This is one for the universe or someone with more knowledge then I have, but..
> Some of the mages we have with us have been into the duke's palace.  Maybe not all around it, but some parts at least (hallways, antechambers, throne room, alleyways, etc.)  This would up our chances I think then trying to have them go from a drawn map.
> Also, there may be blocks on teleporting in, remember the scrying block.  Is there anyway to test it first? or I guess the better question what would happen if it is blocked-we just don't go anywhere?





OOO!  Good thinking L'Aurel!!


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## AIM-54 (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So, for the first trip into Oceanus, we need to narrow our objectives...
> 
> I would say:
> 
> ...




These are a good starting point, but we may have to choose which has priority...if there are cannonballs in/around the palace, then this is a very good start.  Whatever team goes in (Team Sneak, the Party, Team Sneak+ShadowPhoenixes being the current possibilities) will be able to concentrate on one area, get in, scout, get out.  If, on the other hand, cannonballs are not on hand, then we may have to scrap one or the other mission depending on which is more important to start.  I'm not sure if there's a way to know at this point, unless Justice has seen some cannons in the vicinity of the palace during her aerial jaunts.  If this has been mentioned earlier, I apologize.
I'm going to look at the new Oceanus map and see if I can't come up with the beginnings of a non-magical entry/exit strategy, which would be useful to have even if we do go in magically.  Stuff can always go wrong and all.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

*The mask -Jim carrey style*

random, but for anyone reading and quick reply:
Kat- day 1- Masks -If we do not have them: someone gets deep, deep red cloth and makes masks

Kennon- (all of the soldiers (except the recent additions like Korienne's forces) take to wearing masks similar to Archon's by the end of week 1--they seem consider them a sign of resolve.)

Kat- kinda stupid question, but so I am not assuming anything- What did you mean by this?

Kennon- As for the masks, I just meant that wearing them (when on duty) has become popular among the soldiers that fought their way out of Oceanus. It's really the closest thing to a uniform that everybody has, since so many are just refugees. When they man the wall, scout, or do anything "on mission" they wear red-cloth masks that cover their entire faces, with holes cut out for the eyes. It's a declaration of unity, and it may help them from being punished (since they are harder to identify) if the rebellion fails. 

Kat- cool, L’Aurel acquires a finished version (with edging so no frays and such) of one somehow (makes it?) and wears it normally either around her wrist or on her belt. She does not actually wear it as a mask, unless she goes with a scouting mission where someone else is in the lead. She is treating the mask as the beginnings of a uniform. Yeah! 

Of the PC’s, who else wants to be cool like Archonus? Or should we assume everyone has one just in case?


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## Archon (Apr 27, 2004)

*thinking outside the box*

Oceanus is A Fortress. thousands of enemies, a giant, walls to breech, a no-man's land to cross, a fleet in the harbor, dragons in the sky and who knows what kind of magical defences/detection. 
asking anyone but ourselves to attempt any sort of covert ops mission is sentencing them to death or quite possibly worse. 
we're not all sneaky, so those of us that do want to go in that aren't sneaky will either have to tread carefully amped up with magic or simply stay behind. assuming we do get in how do we get out? the same way? and if something goes wrong all we have is a "ping" that let's us know one of us is hurt.
L'Aurel is very important and cannot be risked on a suicide mission. 
this is unlike anything we've ever attempted. but i'm confident that there is a way to get what we need without sneaking in. 
mik aka "the optimist"


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## AIM-54 (Apr 27, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> but i'm confident that there is a way to get what we need without sneaking in.




Just so long as you don't have to come up with it, eh?


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> Oceanus is A Fortress. thousands of enemies, a giant, walls to breech, a no-man's land to cross, a fleet in the harbor, dragons in the sky and who knows what kind of magical defences/detection.
> asking anyone but ourselves to attempt any sort of covert ops mission is sentencing them to death or quite possibly worse.
> we're not all sneaky, so those of us that do want to go in that aren't sneaky will either have to tread carefully amped up with magic or simply stay behind. assuming we do get in how do we get out? the same way? and if something goes wrong all we have is a "ping" that let's us know one of us is hurt.
> L'Aurel is very important and cannot be risked on a suicide mission.
> ...



I agree that this is very risky mission, but L'aurel will not let Arhconus go alone. Yes, we do need something better then the 'ping' as that could give help way to late. Most likely going in and out at the same spot is not good, wheather we use magic or not. At the very least an alternate exit point should be available/planned. 

We could always send in mice or other vermen type animals... though they are not the easiest to communicate with. We could send in small slightly more intellegent animals, so easier to get info to and from. Just a possibility without risking people, but it would risk the animals.
What level druid is the regent of Hywrl? He is more powerful then I am.

Is there a sewer system? Do we know any entry/exit points?
Can I assume when discussing this the Duke at the very least is present--

Did we ask during one of the yes/no sessions-- if the king was directly controling Syvatagor? or anything or the like?


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## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The Plan for getting into Oceanus, right now, looks a little like this:
> 
> 
> Things we need:
> ...



 Without a way to get back up to team sneak if necessary (or inserting a larger team in the first place), making a run into Oceanus for everyone is a VERY high risk.  Most of you barely survived exiting Oceanus when the Draconids were letting you go (and some of you did not--like Gertie).  If you can get in and out without being detected, you can go in with a small team, but that's just a single failed roll.  

That's the in-game reason for having back up/using a larger team.  

Most DMs have to encourage their players not to metagame, to play their characters in a realistic manner, as if they were real people, too.  In addition to the rationale, above, the reason you want to use a larger team is so everyone has something to do.  Maybe some of the less-sneaky members are distracting the draconids from your true purpose, or something like that....  But, as a DM, unless this is a VERY small mission, you really should try to work out something that includes everybody.  You all might suck at hiding, but if you're invisible, it doesn't matter.  Stuff like that.  

At it's core, any of the missions are not an exercise in force planning so much as they are an exercise in creative thinking--you're not the US special forces.  You are MUCH closer to the A Team--screw with the bad guys, etc.  

That maybe didn't make much sense...just remember it's just a game, and there are gamist considerations you need to include, as well.  I'm glad you guys are into your characters, but it can be too much.  

--KCB


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## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

*Some More Answers*

1) Anybody with Use Magic Device can use the scroll(s) of locate object.  Mages can copy the scroll (for a price).  You can also get one of them to cast the normal version of the spell from a distance, and see where it is. 

2) See my earlier comments for the proposed size of team sneak.  2 people is great as long as NOTHING goes wrong.  I will not fudge dice rolls against you, but it only takes ONE failed roll.  THIS IS A HINT.

3) Laurel's ideas for exit strategies are a good start.  Remember that there is magic, and hide/move silently are not the only tools of deception you have in your arsenal.  Think creatively.  

4) Looking at the map is a good idea, and getting together to plan it is an even better idea.  Is it possible this week?  Probably not.  You all also may be overestimating the benefit of face-to-face in stuff like this.  I am always free for questions, but remember that the key here is creativity--when it comes to resources, the bad guys win.  You're going to have to find ways to prevent them from using their benefits.  

5) All of the NPCs are available for questioning/helping, but I need some specific questions.

6) Useful cannonballs will not be in an armory--if they were, that wouldn't help you, because there's nothing connecting them to the Draconids, then.  You need to get one from one the draconids ships if it's going to be proof of anything.  Individual steeldrakes will also not really prove anything.  You need something that can't so easily change hands.

7) At some point, you (or someone/thing) is going to have to enter the palace, no matter how dangerous it is.  It's just a matter of deciding when.  The longer you wait, the more time they have to dig in, and the more elves they can do whatever they're doing to.

8) The Duke can't draw you a map of the palace, because he's really only familiar with his throne room, and his personal chambers.  He can tell you where those are, however.  There is a map of the exterior available (essentially from your memories).  Teleporting in is possible, but dangerous, because you don't know who/what is in the room right now.

9) However, teleportation may be blocked (as is scrying).  If it is, you'll appear at the place closest to where you want to be outside of the interference field.  That could be right onto a patrolled wall, and it could be in the middle of a deserted alley--no way to test it besides trying it, as fat as I can tell.  However, if somebody has an idea, shoot--I'll tell you if it will work.

10) Having backups to the primary plan (such as non-magic entry/exit) is good.  Do that, in case the shizzit hits the fizzan.  

11) You don't know what level Relin Greyclaw (the regent) is.  You know he's high enough level to cast wall of thorns, at least.  You'll have to figure out the rest yourselves...

12) Using Vermin is possible.  How does that work?  (I don't know)

13) There must be a sewer system, but nobody in the camp knows it well, nor are they aware of any exit/entry points.  In fact, there are no sanitation workers in the camp at all.  The Duke never recalls having a problem with it, though....it always just worked.  Preliminary scouting does not reveal any drains in the area...but the waste has to go somewhere.

14) all missions are risky.  Don't get too shook up about it.  Have some fun with the Draconids--remember that you can play with their perceptions in ways other than hiding.  Think creatively, be ballsy, etc.  

I think that takes care of everything.  HOLY CRAP you guys have been busy.   

7)


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## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

Another general note:  I did not craft this scenario with a way for you to "win" in mind.  I crafted the scenario as if I was evil, and I had specific objectives.  So, you have to figure out how evil people think, what evil people would do (or what their actions can tell you about what they want) and move on from there.  Just a suggestion.  I, as a person, am not omniscient, and neither are the bad guys...but they're not dumb, either.  They have a plan, they have standard operating procedures, and they are using them.  

Hope that helps.  Good job, all of you, on the work you've done today.  If you need to plan in the session, that's fine--it won't bother me at all.  But I do think you're doing a good job here.  Listen to each other's ideas, and then refine the best down (with the help of your leader) to a real plan.


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## Laurel (Apr 27, 2004)

Anything we do will be dangerous, though some WAY more then others yes.  L'aurel has a habit of almost dying by the way, not sure if bad rolls or she just gets hit quickly as prime target practice  
If we go with team sneak though, a distraction has been mentioned before and highly recommended by me.  To add possibilities- what about poofing in with draconic uniforms and such instead of team sneak- it's team sneak as guards in case seen... use of clothing, and paint instead of magic maybe better for this though... just another thought.

to throw things out before/instead of attacking-

one- using druid guy and other rangers/druids to send animals (hopefully, with some intelligence) in to Oceanus so we get info out.

two- make Justice invisible on Thane.  This is good for areial scouting at least, and may let her get closer to see things.  Also if team sneak goes in, telepathy with her would be possible.

three- Xath  we could try the whole angel has come to herald the end... but who knows if they believe this... she also has the invisible and fly ability.

four- I am still a fan of trying to attack capture on of the enemy flying/scouting out New Oceanus to get info. from


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## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Anything we do will be dangerous, though some WAY more then others yes.  L'aurel has a habit of almost dying by the way, not sure if bad rolls or she just gets hit quickly as prime target practice
> If we go with team sneak though, a distraction has been mentioned before and highly recommended by me.  To add possibilities- what about poofing in with draconic uniforms and such instead of team sneak- it's team sneak as guards in case seen... use of clothing, and paint instead of magic maybe better for this though... just another thought.
> 
> to throw things out before/instead of attacking-
> ...



 You might want to try to use animals (what spells are for this?) to scout before your foray.  You'd still need to go in, but they might be able to help out with some of the stuff that traditional scouting and scrying have not. 

Some of the people serving the draconids appear to be humanoid, and are armed.  It's possible you could masquerade as some of them, if you knew what was going on.  Alternatively, you could pretend to be a chameloid who doesn't want to change to natural form for some reason.  A little guile never hurt anybody...

Capturing aerial scouts could be interesting, but would require some pre-planning planning.  If you have an idea on how to do it, I'm all (well, mostly) ears.


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## The_Universe (Apr 27, 2004)

I am off to class.  Won't be checking the boards again until around 9/10.


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

Sheesh!  After the flurry of posting today, nothing tonight...bizarre.

Well, if/when you have any questions for me, shoot them my way.  

On another note, pass the message along that everyone should be at EXACTLY level 10 when we play next.  I'm normalizing the XP for the second half of the game.  If somebody's not using the boards, let them know.


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## Xath (Apr 28, 2004)

*Holy Crap!*

Holy Crap! I go to class at 12:30, come back at 11:30, and there are 2 new pages of posts.  Criminy you guys have been busy.

As far as contingency, there is a 6th level Sor/Wiz spell called Contingency which lets you trigger a spell (like teleport) to a specific trigger, event, or command.  So a Wiz could cast Contingency and Teleport on Team Sneak so that if they said some pass phrase, they'd teleport back to Hyrule.

Anyway, here's what I can think of as Xath's ability to contribute to the raid on Oceanus.

Use Magic Device- Xath can use any of the spells and scrolls with a fair accuracy.

0-Level Spells

Detect Magic
Ghost Sound- Can through people off the trail
Mage Hand
Message- Whispered conversation at a distance
Open/Close
Summon Instrument

1-Level Spells

Disguise Self
Expeditious Retreat- Increased speed, but it's only Personal
Identify
Undetectable Alignment- Good for being undetectable

2-Level Spells

Alter Self- Draconids are classified as Humanoids, therefore I can mimic one
Cure Moderate Wounds- Hooray for healing!
Detect Thoughts
Invisibility- Good, but only lasts 1 min/level

3-Level Spells

Gaseous Form- 
Glibness- If you ever need to talk your way out of a sticky situation
Haste- for those hasty retreats 1 person/level
Phantom Steed- A horse a horse, my kingdom for a horse!

4-Level Spells

Dimension Door- It gets you 800 feet in some direction, that's pretty far inside a city but it won't get you out.  It does give a chance to get away though.
Shout- It does 5d6 damage!! A damage dealing spell!! For Bards!!

Also, Xath speaks Draconic.

So I don't know.  Masquerading as draconids, you don't have to worry about hide and move silently.  Just some thoughts, trying to think outside the proverbial BOX.  

One thing about invisibility, it only lasts 1 MIN per level.  That's really not going to help you all that much.  

However, I think the CONTINGENCY spell is a really good idea.  Is there anyone at the camp who can cast it?


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

The only one in the camp until Bluemages start arriving who can cast contingency in conjunction with teleport is Merric Randall.  He could cast it on all of you over the course of a couple of days, since the contingency lasts for 1 day/level.  However, contingency is an expensive spell to cast.  There are rules/prices for having spells cast in your behalf--look them up, and see how much having 1 level and 1 level 6 spell cast on everybody is...you'll get a discount, but somebody tell me the baseline.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Another general note:  I did not craft this scenario with a way for you to "win" in mind.  I crafted the scenario as if I was evil, and I had specific objectives.  So, you have to figure out how evil people think, what evil people would do (or what their actions can tell you about what they want) and move on from there.  Just a suggestion.  I, as a person, am not omniscient, and neither are the bad guys...but they're not dumb, either.  They have a plan, they have standard operating procedures, and they are using them.




So, maybe, foremost, we need to be finding a way to throw a wrench into their well-oiled machine... a way to disrupt their "standar operating procedure"...

Maybe having some of us disguised as draconids... find a way to place ourselves on their outer guard... and find little ways to screw up their plans... 
As sad as this analogy seems, lots of slaves would do little things like this to sabotage their owners... it wasn't a huge impact... but, it was enough to throw off their masters without bringing the pain down upon them..

Once they are thrown off, even just a little, we may have an excellent windown of opportunity to find the information we need...

This is just random brainstorming... so... yeah... *shrugs*

I'll keep thinking...


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> You might want to try to use animals (what spells are for this?) to scout before your foray. You'd still need to go in, but they might be able to help out with some of the stuff that traditional scouting and scrying have not.



Basically it is a combo of charm animal (unlimited) and speak with animal (if we do all the same kind of animal only have to cast twice, once to tell them what to do and again when they get back)
If we do not care about people getting magic vibes off them -I would add Pass Without Trace, so they can not be tracked back to us or tracked while they are while in Oceanus.
As a general Obscuring mist can be targgeted 20 ft. away and has a range of 20 ft wide and high. Only 1 min. per level though... but could be distraction, or used on the guards obscures even dark vision...
OH! Spider climb.... that sounds like fun!

Wall of Thorns is a 5th level druid spell, so Relin Greyclaw (the regent) is AT LEAST that.  Another 5th level spell that may help protect the actual compound area in case of attack is Hallow... and it lasts for one year and effects undead, but we may have better use of his magic.  

So for the stones, are we going to try and use them and just see what happens?  or do we KNOW just by being around the stones increases magic?


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Basically it is a combo of charm animal (unlimited) and speak with animal (if we do all the same kind of animal only have to cast twice, once to tell them what to do and again when they get back)
> If we do not care about people getting magic vibes off them -I would add Pass Without Trace, so they can not be tracked back to us or tracked while they are while in Oceanus.
> As a general Obscuring mist can be targgeted 20 ft. away and has a range of 20 ft wide and high. Only 1 min. per level though... but could be distraction, or used on the guards obscures even dark vision...
> OH! Spider climb.... that sounds like fun!
> ...



 5th level druid spells can't be cast by 5th level druids.  5th level spells require higher levels than that....

As for the stones, the mages all know what they do.  

Animal scouting sounds possible.  I was just curious if there was a specific spell that you were planning on using.  

Everybody--stop by the thread liz started when you get a chance.  I'm curious to see if anyone else will take up your cause.


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

Messing with the bad guys heads is always fun.  I recommend it.  Good idea, Liz.


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So, maybe, foremost, we need to be finding a way to throw a wrench into their well-oiled machine... a way to disrupt their "standar operating procedure"...



Definitely a good idea 



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Maybe having some of us disguised as draconids... find a way to place ourselves on their outer guard... and find little ways to screw up their plans...
> As sad as this analogy seems, lots of slaves would do little things like this to sabotage their owners... it wasn't a huge impact... but, it was enough to throw off their masters without bringing the pain down upon them..



This is a cool idea, but if people were/are worried about the team sneak this is even more dangerous, and calls for a longer and more up front deception with the enemy -just my thoughts though...


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> 5th level druid spells can't be cast by 5th level druids. 5th level spells require higher levels than that....



So th elowest he can be is a 9th level druid with 5th level spells.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

Harking back to one of Kennon's posts regarding full involvement of the party in our Oceanus escapades, the following idea has occured to me.  Combining both goals and capabilities, we stage a two part operation: 1) the less stealthy move to liberate some elves, kill some draconids and otherwise hassle the invaders, hopefully attracting some attention and leaving an opening for 2) Team Sneak goes into the palace, recons or heads to the docks to steal some cannonballs (we have yet to finalize that mission, so far as I know).
  The teleport thingy mentioned above would be real useful for the distraction team, other than the fact that getting the elves out the same way would be a bit of a dilemma...could be useful if the whole op flops, though (at least in the rescuing elves sense...the infiltration part could still be a success).
  And a tactical question for Kennon:  On the revised map, you have a series of red dots along the wall.  I assume those are guard posts?  Assuming we can get some recon on that (aerially or otherwise), how far apart are they?  How many draconids/soldiers generally man each one?  How high is the wall?  Is the Illuminati really in charge?

Okay, I'm done.


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

One of the benefits of an up front deception is that, although it depends on drawing attention to yourselves, it allows you to get much closer to your enemies while their guard is down.  

Additionally, one of the benefits of lying is that you can keep stacking them on top of each other.  If one of the draconids starts to figure out who you are, and you've got him/her in a relatively isolated space, kill him.  Hide the body, and then tell his subordinates that he went to report something to somebody else.  Repeat as necessary.  These guys aren't stupid, but none of the 'soldiers' appear to be super geniuses, either.... 

The core problem is really if you can convince them that you are one of them.


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## Xath (Apr 28, 2004)

*If?!!*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> The core problem is really if you can convince them that you are one of them.




If?!  If?!  Whoever is going, I loan you my +49 bluff check.


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

Just remember how well things go when we split up... but going with it, I would say cannon ball first - very definable goal.  See how it goes, then do another mission in for palace before big fight for Oceanus.

For the whole disruption thing, what about teleporting people in and out quickly and just have them cast a spell then get out. We can change where they appear, and they will only stay long enough to cast the spell.  Also, possibly good scare tactic make them see ghost and be scared of what is around the corner.

Also, if we are still going in early on in the timeline then we will not have much for back-up/extra fighters.


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

*very shaky possibilities...*

Out -of -game:  Remeber Greg and Tim are out for this wekend's playing, so no Arfin or Farathier for these missions.  

From what I think I know of characters--
*Spies:* Justice and Xath (using deception as guards-one fighter, one magic) goal- find who is in charge, disruption
*Rescue mission:* Kareth and some military we have goal- free some elves, disruption
*Sneak:* L'aurel and Archonus goal- get cannon ball/who in charge, disruption 

*This really splits us up though!!!!*


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Harking back to one of Kennon's posts regarding full involvement of the party in our Oceanus escapades, the following idea has occured to me.  Combining both goals and capabilities, we stage a two part operation: 1) the less stealthy move to liberate some elves, kill some draconids and otherwise hassle the invaders, hopefully attracting some attention and leaving an opening for 2) Team Sneak goes into the palace, recons or heads to the docks to steal some cannonballs (we have yet to finalize that mission, so far as I know).
> The teleport thingy mentioned above would be real useful for the distraction team, other than the fact that getting the elves out the same way would be a bit of a dilemma...could be useful if the whole op flops, though (at least in the rescuing elves sense...the infiltration part could still be a success).
> And a tactical question for Kennon:  On the revised map, you have a series of red dots along the wall.  I assume those are guard posts?  Assuming we can get some recon on that (aerially or otherwise), how far apart are they?  How many draconids/soldiers generally man each one?  How high is the wall?  Is the Illuminati really in charge?
> 
> Okay, I'm done.



 1) Cannonballs will be sorta convincing, but not so convincing as being able to produce a whole cannon.  If you REALLY want proof, you'd steel one of the foreign-looking ships with royal weaponry on board.  It'd be hard to argue with that (but also much harder to acquire, I realize)!  The operational plan for this is a long way from finalized, as well.

2) The red dots are meant to represent guard posts, although they are not really to scale.  Every guard post has 8 warriors stationed upon it, and 2 walking between each set.  Each post 80 yards apart.  Thus, you're within bowshot range of at least one post at any given time when close to the wall, and  reinforcements are at most 2 rounds away at a run.  The wall is 30 feet high.  The big dots are major guard towers, you can guess.

3) Yes, the illuminati are in charge.  Just ask Jim Marrs--he'll give you the straight truth.  Danged establishment media....


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> 1) Cannonballs will be sorta convincing, but not so convincing as being able to produce a whole cannon. If you REALLY want proof, you'd steel one of the foreign-looking ships with royal weaponry on board. It'd be hard to argue with that (but also much harder to acquire, I realize)! The operational plan for this is a long way from finalized, as well.



Hopefully between Jaine, Jaine's past story, charisma checks, masses being way too gullible, people already liking and look to us, info on Captain Darkson, etc.-- the proof aspect is more just 'see here is one more thing why king is not only bad but tied to the invaders'... the cannon ball would not be what we are banking the whole sway of the issue.  Plus when mass invasion happens(or sooner) maybe we can capture a ship before it retreats


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> 1) Cannonballs will be sorta convincing, but not so convincing as being able to produce a whole cannon.  If you REALLY want proof, you'd steel one of the foreign-looking ships with royal weaponry on board.  It'd be hard to argue with that (but also much harder to acquire, I realize)!  The operational plan for this is a long way from finalized, as well.




Hmmm...How many people does the collapsible boat (or whatever its official name is) hold?  Or can it hold?  Do we have any shipwrights in the camp?

Depending on the answers to that, we might stage a raid with Seaborn's men, plus some soldiers (regulars not militia), capture a boat with cannons and sail up to that town to whose name I can't remember seeing as how I'm at work and don't have my handy world maps here.  Heck, we could even turn it into a bit of a recruiting mission on the way back, as well as the beginnings of a Phoenix Navy!

It's a thought, anyway, depending on how serious we are about obtaining significant evidence...


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Out -of -game:  Remeber Greg and Tim are out for this wekend's playing, so no Arfin or Farathier for these missions.
> 
> From what I think I know of characters--
> *Spies:* Justice and Xath (using deception as guards-one fighter, one magic) goal- find who is in charge, disruption
> ...



 Splitting up is always dangerous.  To the degree that you can stay together, do so.  After all, when pretending, not everyone has to chime in with a lie...


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Hmmm...How many people does the collapsible boat (or whatever its official name is) hold? Or can it hold? Do we have any shipwrights in the camp?
> 
> Depending on the answers to that, we might stage a raid with Seaborn's men, plus some soldiers (regulars not militia), capture a boat with cannons and sail up to that town to whose name I can't remember seeing as how I'm at work and don't have my handy world maps here. Heck, we could even turn it into a bit of a recruiting mission on the way back, as well as the beginnings of a Phoenix Navy!
> 
> It's a thought, anyway, depending on how serious we are about obtaining significant evidence...



Seaborn can even have the boat afterwards- we still owe him one right? or is the lack of boat/money keeping him around? 
More recruits cool!!! -letters did nothing. So far as I remember the folding boat is pretty small- we opened it up in the middle the street  hey we couldn't NOT hit the buttons 

Horseshoes of a zephy -does Justice still have these? We never attached them to a horse, but she was holding them before she got the griffon... just not sure if she has them, they are in the bag of holding, or they were sold?

what I found on the folding boat--
*Boat, Folding*: A folding boat looks like a small wooden box—about 12 inches long, 6 inches wide, and 6 inches deep. It can be used to store items like any other box. If a command word is given, however, the box unfolds itself to form a boat 10 feet long, 4 feet wide, and 2 feet in depth. A second command word causes it to unfold to a ship 24 feet long, 8 feet wide, and 6 feet deep. Any objects formerly stored in the box now rest inside the boat or ship.
In its smaller form, the boat has one pair of oars, an anchor, a mast, and a lateen sail. In its larger form, the boat has a deck, single rowing seats, five sets of oars, a steering oar, an anchor, a deck cabin, and a mast with a square sail. The boat can hold four people comfortably, while the ship carries fifteen with ease.
A third word of command causes the boat or ship to fold itself into a box once again.
Faint transmutation; CL 6th; Craft Wondrous Item, fabricate, creator must have 2 ranks in the Craft (shipmaking) skill; Price 7,200 gp;Weight 4 lb.

I guess ours is button activated instead of by a command word, though.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Messing with the bad guys heads is always fun.  I recommend it.  Good idea, Liz.






Thank you very much...

I think that it is a possibility with our endless abilities to increase bluff and diplomacy checks...

We can easily decieve a whole lot of people... may even be able to just walk into the city and take a cannon ball and walk out, that way.

"Syvattagor sent me to get this... out of my way... grunt grunt... draconic speak..."

Also... we may be able to pull the "these are prisoners we found escapting" bit if we want to dress up and play draconic... get everyone into the city that way... 

Thoughts?


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

The big version sounds a little too big for a really stealthy approach, but might be our only option if we can't build any other small assault craft.  Assuming we even choose to go this route, of course.

I'm also all for not splitting up, but am willing to recognize that their may be cases where it is beneficial.  Again, I think we need to choose our first objective before we can make any final tactical decisions.

For the purposes of clarity/brevity, I think we have two options:

Naval action:  Capture ship/cannons
Objective achieved:  Obtain serious proof that the King is involved with the invaders.  Also, daring naval raid boosts morale, may have positive affects on recruiting.

Ground action: Free slaves/recon palace/capture cannonballs
Objectives: Freeing elves looks good, feels good, good for morale, may affect recruiting.  Recon palace good for info "know your enemy".  Capturing cannonballs some possibly circumstantial evidence of connection between king and invaders.

The question is, what do we need to do first?  Once we prioritize, we can make better decisions about how we go about achieving the goal.  Chances are we'll have more than one opportunity to go in and go after other objectives.

Finally, as long as we kill some bad guys, no missions will be a total failure...assuming our losses aren't as significant, of course.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Harking back to one of Kennon's posts regarding full involvement of the party in our Oceanus escapades, the following idea has occured to me.  Combining both goals and capabilities, we stage a two part operation: 1) the less stealthy move to liberate some elves, kill some draconids and otherwise hassle the invaders, hopefully attracting some attention and leaving an opening for 2) Team Sneak goes into the palace, recons or heads to the docks to steal some cannonballs (we have yet to finalize that mission, so far as I know).




I think this is an excellent idea...

Splitting up, yes, bad idea... however-- if we do two seperate groups that are amplified by NPC fighters, we may be able to pull something off...

If we play draconic dress up, the less-sneaky, more bluffy/diplomatic group, saunters up to where they are keeping the imprisoned elves...
We say something like "I need (insert number here) of these elf-things... we've got to go murder them and eat their young... ya know... over there... in those trees... now give them to me or I'll slit your throat!"

And, at the same time, team sneak is off finding out information... 


Also... hehehe... Illuminati...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

Okay... so... I'm thinking... and, maybe trying to liberate the elves isn't going to be the thing to try to do right now... realistically, I don't even know if it is a possibility.
Been talking to Kennon about it... and, no matter how convincing and bluff-er-ific we are, it's going to be a little difficult to just march out of the city with a bunch of the imprisoned elves.

Kennon says: "At best, you could find a place in the city to hide them."

I agree that we really need to do something about the elves... but-- that's all the more reason to work to actually win the city back...

However, just because we can't liberate the elves doesn't mean we aren't going to be able to play dress up and go into the city and do other things... set traps and genreally raise hell...

Once again... thoughts?


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

Sort of as follow up to the end of my last post and given the direction of Liz's last one...

We could just do a mayhem run (possibly in support of a concurrent recon mission) where we tear through the city (by which I mean going maybe a block or two into it ) killing bad guys, breaking stuff, maybe setting some traps if we have people that are good at that kind of stuff and otherwise making nuisances of ourselves, before getting out.  The teleport on command spell thing would be ideal for that, though a conventional "going over the wall" method might be better for entry, just because it allows us to engage more enemies and make more noise.  The teleport would also mean we could go a little farther into the city (if it doesn't look suicidal to do so and we're still in decent condition) burning and killing before teleporting out.

Just an idea.


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

Firstly, who besides Xath speaks draconic? Anyone?

As for prisoners... they may be stuck for awhile until liberation of Oceanus or at least full scale attack happens. If you see ones you think you can help maybe just getting them to a safer area can buy them time... geesh a nice moral dilemma there...

I would say getting more recruits and hardening the resolve of the people in the camp to our cause is priority one. We need more people and fast, and we need the current recruits to have a sense of 'yes I am doing right' not a wishy washy 'well, I hope this is right'... actually getting them to the side of king=bad, we are good, and some stay with us after Oceanus retaken  

So- I vote cannonball/ship as top priority
Getting info. on leader/inside defenses high priority
Free elves unfortunately last on list for now...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

*Questions...*

So, what can we assume our army will be when it is complete?  This may have been posted before... but, I'm not really sure...

How many fighters/warriors do we have with us right now?
How many will we have when the training is complete?  (or at least, as complete as it is going to get)

How many Wizards do we have with us right now?
How many will we have when they answer the conditional amnesty?

How many monks is Kaereth training?


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Sort of as follow up to the end of my last post and given the direction of Liz's last one...
> 
> We could just do a mayhem run (possibly in support of a concurrent recon mission) where we tear through the city (by which I mean going maybe a block or two into it ) killing bad guys, breaking stuff, maybe setting some traps if we have people that are good at that kind of stuff and otherwise making nuisances of ourselves, before getting out. The teleport on command spell thing would be ideal for that, though a conventional "going over the wall" method might be better for entry, just because it allows us to engage more enemies and make more noise. The teleport would also mean we could go a little farther into the city (if it doesn't look suicidal to do so and we're still in decent condition) burning and killing before teleporting out.
> 
> Just an idea.



YEAH to killing and mayhem!!!!! Good diversion, but I am just not sure how far or even if we could breech the wall to do actual damage...


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

*structuring the ideas.*



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Naval action: Capture ship/cannons
> Objective achieved: Obtain serious proof that the King is involved with the invaders. Also, daring naval raid boosts morale, may have positive affects on recruiting.
> 
> Ground action: Free slaves/recon palace/capture cannonballs
> ...



These are PRECISELY the questions that you need to answer.  You have already committed yourselves to this quest, and rather than trying to back off of it, you just need to figure out a plan for how to do it.  

Naval action as stated above is focused, and achievable if you did it right.

Ground action, on the other hand, still seems a little scattered.  Hoping to free slaves, capture cannons, AND recon the palace may be too much to ask for a single mission.  You can spend as much time here in Oceanus as you have to--you're not much good to the people of the kingdom if you try to do too much too fast, and just end up dead.  Focus this mission a little bit.  Right now, you're really looking at 3 or 4 options, not 2.  

Nonetheless, this seems like a good track to be on.  

As for "At best, you could find a place in the city to hide them," Don't take every word I say as gospel.  I built (in my mind) the defenses of this city, and as FAR AS I KNOW, there's no reasonable way that you could get them out of the city without raising alarms like crazy.  But, could 5-7 people outsmart me?  Why yes....yes they could.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So, what can we assume our army will be when it is complete?  This may have been posted before... but, I'm not really sure...
> 
> How many fighters/warriors do we have with us right now?
> How many will we have when the training is complete?  (or at least, as complete as it is going to get)
> ...




Current estimates based on numbers Kennon gave us earlier:

Right now: ~600-650 regular warriors from Oceanus' Army detachment
Future: ~1200-1300, once those with current basic training complete more advanced regular army training

There is also 200-250 with the half-orc paladin whose status is as yet undetermined (correct me if I'm wrong)

There will also be another 500-1000 from among the single, healthy males that will be trained up as militia (or to the stage prior to regular army training), although there's no reason some of those couldn't be fast-tracked to the regular army.

I'm going to have to go back and look at some of the earlier posts on this topic for more precise information, but I believe I'm pretty close on this.

This means we probably need another 10-12000 recruits before we consider a serious conventional attack on the city.  Hence the need for our ShadowPhoenix company to conduct guerrilla war while we build that up and the PC's possibly pursue other goals.

Kaereth will be training no more than 12 monks at this time, possibly more in the future, but that's up to The Universe.

Hope that helps.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> YEAH to killing and mayhem!!!!! Good diversion, but I am just not sure how far or even if we could breech the wall to do actual damage...




This doesn't accomplish much, though.  Unless the distraction proves some purpose, it does little outside of risk our butts.

So, mayhem may be a good option, if during it, we are actually DOING something... but, I don't think that particular task can be to free the elves-- it's just too obvious at this point...

Objectives are important-- yes... still think that finding Syvattagor's boss is very important... but-- if we want to drop that for the time being, it'll have to work... however, I think that is a key piece of information that we need as soon as possible.

Getting the cannon is a great idea.  I agree it should be high on the priority list... but, the reality of trying to lug a cannon is what is going to slow us down... literally.

Thane cannon carry it.  Some of the stronger members of the group could drag it... but, it would take EONS to get of the city...

What other options do we have to get it out of the city?


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> YEAH to killing and mayhem!!!!! Good diversion, but I am just not sure how far or even if we could breech the wall to do actual damage...




The idea is not to breach the wall, but to go over it.  And if we do it through a guard post, we can take out 8 guys there, with another 16 inbound in a couple rounds.  If we have the teleport thing all set up we don't even have to engage all of them before we zap away. The trick is not to win the war in one or two engagements, but to understand that this is a long term strategy aimed at slowly draining their resources.  

As per The Universe's last post: It seems then that the naval mission might be our best bet as our opening salvo, it's straightforward, we have the know-how and it accomplishes a key goal.  We'll probably want to take some people that know how to use cannons (Steel Dragons?  I can't remember the in-game term) as they might be useful if there is a pursuit...or just to wreak havoc as we leave 

Finally, are there shipwrights in the encampment that could help us out with some small assault boats (ie robust rowboats )?


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

*I wish I were on oscar meyer wiener*

NOTICE: 

Nothing is impossible. Almost everything you're going to try is hard. Suck it up, keep planning, and move on.  I will enjoy losing to you.

Now, on to some of Jeremiah's questions:  

There are some people who can build rowboats.  That's no problem at all.  

Cannons are called Steeldrakes.  You were close.  

Captain Seaborne is happy to help.  He also would note that leaving the thing in a harbor (at the moment), even a friendly harbor, would be dangerous with the draconids so clearly dominating the seas in this area.  If you take it, you're going to have to bring it inland to preserve your "proof."  However, it'd make a great recruiting tool...


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

Just to state it, I like the boat/naval idea and think we should work with this. Through scrying we can see which has the cannons, least people, easiest to liberate.  At least as a possible to go in with, but that mind set should be flexible.

As for land stage, I am not advocating the mass attack- I do like the burning and havoc and killing though. But as I stated before, this is risky and proably would not accomplish much at all.

What about sticking to the draconic disguise idea for land mission. Xath can ask about the dragon leader, and others. Generally though it would be to see defenses, and figure out where the elves are being kept. In mass land battle it would be nice to know where they are before bambardment. The basic thing is to get the information from other guards or people inside city without going into the palace.

Ways out of the city- Get onto a small ship and say we have orders to take it somewhere.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Getting the cannon is a great idea.  I agree it should be high on the priority list... but, the reality of trying to lug a cannon is what is going to slow us down... literally.
> 
> Thane cannon carry it.  Some of the stronger members of the group could drag it... but, it would take EONS to get of the city...
> 
> What other options do we have to get it out of the city?




  There's no need to carry it if we steal the ship that it/they are on.  Which has been my entire idea since I brought it up, thus my dangerous obsession with Seaborn, the folding boat and shipwrights.  Thus, we sail away from the city, to that other city whose name I cannot remember because I don't have a map here at work and can't remember if there's a copy lost somewhere earlier on this thread.  There we can take a cannon, rent a wagon, harangue some crowds, grab some recruits, give Seaborn the ship and encourage him to become the center of a new Phoenix Navy.  Or not, but we'll have the damn cannon, Xath can write some songs about its daring capture and I'm sure the refugees that ended up there will be happy to hear about us tweaking the Draconids and maybe we'll win a few recruits.  It's not a perfect plan, it may not be an ideal plan, but I like it, I think it gives us a lot more in terms of the intangibles (as well as some very nice material gains...heck, we could take multiple cannons down to Hyrwl to help defend it) than just finding out who the leader of this particular army is.  I'm not sure why that's become such a priority, other than it's nice to know who you're fighting, but I think the naval option gives us much, much more all around at this time.
  Besides reverse amphibious assaults are fun!


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

sorry server slow... so triple posting by accident


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

*Trying.... really I am....*

massive mess-up with triple posting.. sorry....


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

*Trying.... really I am....*

This may get too complex but adding ideas together--

1) send Xath & co. into Oceanus through poofing
2) they have a set mark of half an hour to get info. through chatting and what not in disguise then they must be on lower docks
3) xath and co. have half an hour to get from lower docks onto the appointed ship and start getting it ready through 'orders to leave'
3) at the apointed hour mark Kareth & co. come from sea and attack, we take over ship 
4) use Thane, rowboats, Bob, whatever to get cannons/ammunition off ship and to Hywrl, New Oceanus. Give to McShippy or skuttle it to ocean bottom

They will chace after us, and if we sail to another port we could be dooming them as well, since they sent most of thier forces north with the king.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> The idea is not to breach the wall, but to go over it.  And if we do it through a guard post, we can take out 8 guys there, with another 16 inbound in a couple rounds.  If we have the teleport thing all set up we don't even have to engage all of them before we zap away. The trick is not to win the war in one or two engagements, but to understand that this is a long term strategy aimed at slowly draining their resources.
> 
> As per The Universe's last post: It seems then that the naval mission might be our best bet as our opening salvo, it's straightforward, we have the know-how and it accomplishes a key goal.  We'll probably want to take some people that know how to use cannons (Steel Dragons?  I can't remember the in-game term) as they might be useful if there is a pursuit...or just to wreak havoc as we leave
> 
> Finally, are there shipwrights in the encampment that could help us out with some small assault boats (ie robust rowboats )?




RE: the naval mission...

Here are my thoughts...

Trying to take a whole ship is going to be incredibly difficult.  If we get it out of the harbor, we still have to get it somewhere... and it won't fit in my pocket.

We're going to have LOTS of people and horses waiting for us somewhere down the coast and pull it to Oceanus... which, though doable, will take a ton of people and a long time to pull a whole ship at least 20 miles over land.

What do you guys think???


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

The Ship... Just something to think about...

If we take the ship and sail it into someone elses port... it could have really negative affects...

What will the people in that city think?  Everyone knows that we are wanted criminals... So, we sail in on one of the king's ships claiming that the bad guys used it... seems to me that could inflict a lot of negative motifiers to our diplomatic abilities-- it looks really suspicious and may be more of a harm to our cause...


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

*Framing the Questions*



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> There's no need to carry it if we steal the ship that it/they are on. Which has been my entire idea since I brought it up, thus my dangerous obsession with Seaborn, the folding boat and shipwrights. Thus, we sail away from the city, to that other city whose name I cannot remember because I don't have a map here at work and can't remember if there's a copy lost somewhere earlier on this thread. There we can take a cannon, rent a wagon, harangue some crowds, grab some recruits, give Seaborn the ship and encourage him to become the center of a new Phoenix Navy. Or not, but we'll have the damn cannon, Xath can write some songs about its daring capture and I'm sure the refugees that ended up there will be happy to hear about us tweaking the Draconids and maybe we'll win a few recruits. It's not a perfect plan, it may not be an ideal plan, but I like it, I think it gives us a lot more in terms of the intangibles (as well as some very nice material gains...heck, we could take multiple cannons down to Hyrwl to help defend it) than just finding out who the leader of this particular army is. I'm not sure why that's become such a priority, other than it's nice to know who you're fighting, but I think the naval option gives us much, much more all around at this time.
> Besides reverse amphibious assaults are fun!



There is a valid reason to do both of the above things first.  Getting the ship will be a morale booster at home--important thing to do.  

However, spying on the leadership, etc. may give you some ideas on how to make stealing the ship easier.  You're not just trying to identify the headman in Oceanus, you're also trying to fathom the larger purpose of the invasion.  As I see it, there's no clear harm/benefit to any order--just pick and move.  We might even be able to play both in a single session, if we're focused....


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> RE: the naval mission...
> 
> Here are my thoughts...
> 
> ...




First, I'd just like to say that people seem to be looking for a silver bullet here.  There isn't one.  We've embarked on a very dangerous course of action.  Anything we do is going to entail serious risk.  If we're serious about liberating Oceanus, we need to accept that risk and take it out of the equation...or at least reduce its influence on how we think.  Some of this I think is a result of too much time to think and plan without being forced to actually do anything.  Hopefully that will be remedied this weekend.

Second, it strikes me as being somewhat hypocritical to start out by saying we need to announce our presence as rebels and then get cold feet when it comes to sailing a stolen ship into a different port.  Heck, since we liberated it from the invaders, there's no reason to be that concerned.  If that's not a time for our charisma characters to shine, I don't know what is.  If we don't want to keep the ship there, all we need to do is offload some/all of the cannons (because they really would be wicked useful to defend Hyrwl), hire a caravan (or a wagon, which should be able to carry one to two cannons, depending on how heavy they are and how sturdy the wagons are), or have one dispatched from Hyrwl to meet us there.  I'm sure we can come up with a good cover story or two, if necessary.  If we don't keep the ship, once all we want/can carry is off it, we simply sail it out with a skeleton crew and the folding boat, scuttle it and return quickly and quietly.
Of course this is risky, but anything we do from now on is going to be.  I think this operation and, yes going through the northern city, has the opportunity to be more beneficial than harmful.  If people continue to have concerns, that's fine, we can alter the plan, say steal the ship sail it 10 miles up the coast where we have some wagons waiting, offload stuff and then scuttle it.  But being afraid because we're outlaws after having previously said we should announce our presence to the world just sounds dumb.


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## Laurel (Apr 28, 2004)

Previous idea I stated, but just to add::

1) send Xath/Justice & Co. into Oceanus through poofing
2) Xath/Justice & Co. have a set mark of half an hour to get info. through chatting and what not in disguise then they must be on lower docks
3) Xath/Justice & Co. have half an hour to get from lower docks onto the appointed ship (from scrying previously) and start getting it ready through 'orders to leave'
3) at the apointed hour mark Kareth & Co. come from sea and attack, we take over ship sail away northwestward.
4) have Thane in a specific spot on coast when we get near Justice uses link Thane scretches soemthing and rowboats, Bob, whatever move to us.  We get get cannons/ammunition off ship and to Hywrl, New Oceanus. 
5)Give ship to McShippy or skuttle it to ocean bottom.  Svatagor & Co. will most likely chase after us, and if we sail to another port we could be dooming them, since they sent most of thier forces north with the king.  The cannon/ammo will be the proof and we have people around us who can also pread the word- not just the seven of us telling it.  It will be the people of New Oceanus/Hywrl.  

This will give us proof, moral booster, a chance to get more info.
If Xath & Co. are not at ship, Kareth and Co. go as planned and even leave without them-no waiting
Xath & co. have teleport by word command for easy out


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> There is a valid reason to do both of the above things first.  Getting the ship will be a morale booster at home--important thing to do.
> 
> However, spying on the leadership, etc. may give you some ideas on how to make stealing the ship easier.  You're not just trying to identify the headman in Oceanus, you're also trying to fathom the larger purpose of the invasion.  As I see it, there's no clear harm/benefit to any order--just pick and move.  We might even be able to play both in a single session, if we're focused....





The leadership that exists is a main objective because that is the main force that our group will be fighting.  The undead and the like are dangerous, yes... but, when it comes down to it, we need to know who the big bad guy is so that we know how to take down the city.

The big boss provides the main foundation-- in, in the freeing of the city, when we can take him out, many of the undead forces and minions will scatter for lack of instruction and leadership.


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

Jeremiah's most recent post (sarcasm aside) is right on.  Being a rebel is WAY worse than being a criminal, and you're already heroes to these people--getting the ship is a way to show that you were justified in being both criminals and rebels.  Also, there are no silver bullets.  You have chosen a long, difficult slog--you're in for the duration.  

Kat's idea is good, but for your first foray, I'd try to keep things a little smaller in scale--use everybody's resources for one thing, and as you have a chance to learn to coordinate in a dangerous situation you can try to get more done, at once.  Oceanus is going to last for more than one session--don't try to do too much too soon.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Jeremiah's most recent post (sarcasm aside) is right on.  Being a rebel is WAY worse than being a criminal, and you're already heroes to these people--getting the ship is a way to show that you were justified in being both criminals and rebels.  Also, there are no silver bullets.  You have chosen a long, difficult slog--you're in for the duration.




Heh.  I apologize if it came off a little harsher than I intended, just a little frustration with seeing everyone come up with these plans and then having every one taken to task for being risky.  So no harm intended, just a little frustration.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Second, it strikes me as being somewhat hypocritical to start out by saying we need to announce our presence as rebels and then get cold feet when it comes to sailing a stolen ship into a different port.  Heck, since we liberated it from the invaders, there's no reason to be that concerned.  If that's not a time for our charisma characters to shine, I don't know what is.  If we don't want to keep the ship there, all we need to do is offload some/all of the cannons (because they really would be wicked useful to defend Hyrwl), hire a caravan (or a wagon, which should be able to carry one to two cannons, depending on how heavy they are and how sturdy the wagons are), or have one dispatched from Hyrwl to meet us there.  I'm sure we can come up with a good cover story or two, if necessary.  If we don't keep the ship, once all we want/can carry is off it, we simply sail it out with a skeleton crew and the folding boat, scuttle it and return quickly and quietly.
> Of course this is risky, but anything we do from now on is going to be.  I think this operation and, yes going through the northern city, has the opportunity to be more beneficial than harmful.  If people continue to have concerns, that's fine, we can alter the plan, say steal the ship sail it 10 miles up the coast where we have some wagons waiting, offload stuff and then scuttle it.  But being afraid because we're outlaws after having previously said we should announce our presence to the world just sounds dumb.




Not wanting to just sail into another person's port has nothing to do with whether I think we should announce ourselves as rebels.  

I have a concern for how the rebellion is perceived by the general populous of the world and, as such, sailing into a foreign port with one of the Dragon people's ships does NOT seem like a logical plan.  If the ship isn't sunk, it makes US look like the bad guys..
It placed enormous negative motifiers to our diplomacy checks-- 
"hey... yeah... we're the guys that are wanted criminals... and... uhh... we just happened to get this ship from... ya know... the big bad guys so that we could prove... uhh... to you that we aren't the bad guys... but the king... who wants us dead... is the bad guy..."

Moreover, even if we did get the ship safely into the port without being lynched, we may lose the ship anyway... we need to keep it in OUR possession or we risk having it taken away.

Nothing hypocritical about that, at all... just simple logic.  Sailing the ship into anyone elses port is asking for bad stuff to happen... it is not going back into the rebellion closet.


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Heh.  I apologize if it came off a little harsher than I intended, just a little frustration with seeing everyone come up with these plans and then having every one taken to task for being risky.  So no harm intended, just a little frustration.



 No blood, no foul.  

As for swiping a ship, the chief danger I (through any one of a number of NPCs) see is not in perception of you guys having an evil ship (although that shouldn't be ignored).  Instead, trying to keep your proof in any harbor at all seems dangerous--they dominate the seas, so to protect your proof, and preserve it for future viewing, you probably need to bring it inland as far as is possible (maybe even to New Oceanus).  This removes the possibility of the Draconids burning down a friendly harbor just to get it, and allows you to bring potential allies to see the proof at your leisure.  It also removed the possibility of an over-eager harbor official trying to sink the ship as an evil scary dragon ship sails into his port!  Lastly, it makes it (and you) harder to track.  Cut the masts and hide it in the forest--they'll never find the thing.

However, getting it off the seas means your burgeoning navy is still stunted.  But, no reason you couldn't steal another one...or two....or ten...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Heh.  I apologize if it came off a little harsher than I intended, just a little frustration with seeing everyone come up with these plans and then having every one taken to task for being risky.  So no harm intended, just a little frustration.




It's not that getting the ship is too risky-- I think we NEED to get the ship-- I'm just trying to get all of the consequences out there.

Taking the ship is an excellent idea.  However, what we do with the ship after we have it can have positive or negative effects and affects for the group...

Sailing it into another port seems to have the most obvious potential for really negative impacts and the possible loss of the ship.

Some risks are necessary... we all know that-- if we didn't, we wouldn't even be talking about GETTING the ship.  However, some risks are outright ridiculous and should be avoided at all costs.
Sailing the ship into the closest port seems to be one of those risks.


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## The_Universe (Apr 28, 2004)

A general note/rule:  

Criticising an idea is fine, especially if it's bad.  But, doing so is not worth much if you don't present an alternative.  So, regardless of whether or not sailing a ship into a harbor is good or bad, unless you have another way to do it, don't complain.  Above, I presented an alternate idea.  If you don't like the forming plan, don't beyatch unless you have an idea that is at least as good.  This goes for everyone.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> A general note/rule:
> 
> Criticising an idea is fine, especially if it's bad.  But, doing so is not worth much if you don't present an alternative.  So, regardless of whether or not sailing a ship into a harbor is good or bad, unless you have another way to do it, don't complain.  Above, I presented an alternate idea.  If you don't like the forming plan, don't beyatch unless you have an idea that is at least as good.  This goes for everyone.




It is, without a doubt, a better idea to expend our man-power to pull the ship than it is to try to sail it into another port...

That would be my alternate plan.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 28, 2004)

I don't think the port plan is as bad as you're making it sound.  It's a tremendous recruiting opportunity.
  That said, if it's a risk we don't want to take right now, that's fine.  The other variants of the overall plan are fine.  I'm not sure how valuable a ship on land is, other than proof that we took the cannons from that ship and not somewhere else...
  But I still think we shouldn't underestimate the positive affects we could generate by giving the people as yet mostly unaffected the chance to see a victory against the draconids.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> 3)  How the hell are we supposed to obtain an army that can liberate Oceanus without openly announcing ourselves and proving that we have the capability, with a little help, to kick those draconic bastards out?  Stealing the ship, with incriminating evidence regarding the King's involvement and then announcing our presence (sailing into the harbor with the Phoenix Banner flying perhaps) is a great way to show that not only are we in the right, but we can give the enemy what-for.  (heh heh, now I'm british )  We're not going to recruit just by hoping word of mouth makes people want to join us.
> 
> 4)  We have eloquent characters precisely so we don't say stupid things like your example there.  The trick is to play down the King's outlawing of us and play up our role as the heros of Oceanus.
> 
> ...




I agree with everything you're saying... just trying to make sure that all the consequences are understood, Jeremiah.

As for #3,
I am, in no way, saying that we need to hide our rebellion.  If you'll remember, I was one of the first to say we need to be open about it.  In the same vein, you cannot do stupid things simply because we are an open rebellion.  I agree that getting the cannons is a GREAT idea.  No one is disputing that-- we all want to do it-- however, we need to decided what we're going to to ONCE we get it.

#4 and #6 tie into each other...
The diplomacy check is nothing if we LOOK like the bad guys.  Actions do speak louder than words.  These people are terrified.  If we show up with one of the bad guys boats, we are bringing the very negative planning down upon ourselves.

#7
Yes!  I'm sick of it, too! I have been for DAYS!  But, we cannot make a plan without analyzing the negative affects.  We ARE taking risks but, trying to avoid ones that would mean the destruction of our rebellion.  In that light, it is not at all fruitless... the fruit of our planning is understanding all that could come from the plan.
Too often our group focuses on the good that could come from something and lets that over-shadown the bad.  And then what happens? The bad stuff that we never really gave any thought to at all.

The ship is a fabulous idea.  We need it.  We need the cannons on it.  I think we all know this... 

I'm just trying to let everyone know what could happen if we were to simply sail it into a neighboring port like Jeremiah suggested earlier.
It would be a much better idea to lug it across the land...


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## Xath (Apr 28, 2004)

*I got a slight chance to read.*

So, I actually had a little bit of time to read recently and I once again picked up Anne McCaffery's Freedom's Landing series.  And what do you know?  It's about a group of rebels forced to rebuild their homes in a knew area after having been forced from their homes by a strang alien force.  And so...they rebuild, then rebel to get their home back.  How do they do this?  They start off by stealing ships.  Granted these are space ships but there are certain rules which apply in any situation.

1.  Ships in dock are not manned by a full crew.  They usually have 2 guards so that one can be on duty at all time.

2.  Ship guards are not the brightest people in the world.  If they were smarter, they would be on shore leave with the rest of the crew, and not stuck on board.

3.  Lots + Alcohol + Ship Guard = New ship for us.  You could even add a sleep inducer into the mix.  Occasionially, guards from other ships go "visiting" with booze.  It's a fun party time.

4.  Sleeping guards don't have a say when their ship is being stolen.  

Getting the ship out of the harbour, and sailing it elsewhere is another issue.  Busy ports don't check ID's as carefully, but I don't know what the ship traffic is around Oceanus.  But once the guards are asleep/dead, the ship is fairly easy to take.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 28, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I don't think the port plan is as bad as you're making it sound.  It's a tremendous recruiting opportunity.
> That said, if it's a risk we don't want to take right now, that's fine.  The other variants of the overall plan are fine.  I'm not sure how valuable a ship on land is, other than proof that we took the cannons from that ship and not somewhere else...
> But I still think we shouldn't underestimate the positive affects we could generate by giving the people as yet mostly unaffected the chance to see a victory against the draconids.




I've hashed through it with Kennon all day-- and, realistically, it is not the best idea.  Getting the cannons, having Xath compose and sing/perform is a much better idea.  At that point, we travel with the cannon and spread the "gospel" of the phoenix.

Pushing the ship on a city:
1. Puts the draconids on our trail
2. Opens us up for questioning/skepticism
3. Could lead to the sinking of the ship, cannons, crew, and all.

I think that taking it over land is the best idea... 

or, whatever, leave the ship... pull it up by the shore, unload the cannons and just drag the cannons back to Hyrwl!  Screw the ship!  We don't really NEED the ship for anything unless Seaborne desperately wants it...


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## Archon (Apr 28, 2004)

*nods*


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## Archon (Apr 29, 2004)

i don't know about you guys but the guy who quit "book learnin'" a long time ago is getting dizzy from all the great posts and i just want to lay out a simple frame in which to plan(please adjust if nessessary).
one/a few of us can just walk in find out the information we need through deception, then we the heroes can make major strikes against the most powerfull foes leaving the "cannon fodder" without guidance. then we march on Oceanus with an army and clear them out.  
you guys know i'm not very good at the whole detailed planning thing. complicated plans have a knack of running afoul. i say the simpler the better. but no matter what someone has to decide on ONE course of action and stick to it. you're all comming up with great stuff and i feel humbled by your collective ability to plan. i'm feeling a bit lost though. i don't know what we're actually going to do. we need decisions to be made. someone has to say "ok, these are all our possibilities, these are all our contigencies and this is our order of objectives. in short, this is what we're going to do" so we can walk in on saturday with a pretty good idea about whats going down.
i'm not trying to rush a decision or bully everyone into doing something they don't like. i just want to know, "can we make a decision?" if we can't, what else do we need to know. 
you guys rock and i know no matter what we decide we can make it work.
with "mad props"
mik aka "the guy who quit "book learnin'" a long time ago"


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## Archon (Apr 29, 2004)

*smiles*


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## Laurel (Apr 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Kat's idea is good, but for your first foray, I'd try to keep things a little smaller in scale--use everybody's resources for one thing, and as you have a chance to learn to coordinate in a dangerous situation you can try to get more done, at once. Oceanus is going to last for more than one session--don't try to do too much too soon.



Thank you for at least acknowledging I had an idea...


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

*This is the plan of attack, right?*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Thank you for at least acknowledging I had an idea...



You are, of course, very welcome. 

As for general focus, the idea seems to be to--at the moment--1) to steal a ship, and then either haul it inland, or hide it somewhere, or just sail it into the next closest port so it can be used as proof. After you deal with what happense there, you'll 2) retrieve Jaine. From there, you'll 3) Spy on/kill the leadership in the palace. 

Is that right?


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

*What would the Universe do?*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> So, I actually had a little bit of time to read recently and I once again picked up Anne McCaffery's Freedom's Landing series. And what do you know? It's about a group of rebels forced to rebuild their homes in a knew area after having been forced from their homes by a strang alien force. And so...they rebuild, then rebel to get their home back. How do they do this? They start off by stealing ships. Granted these are space ships but there are certain rules which apply in any situation.
> 
> 1. Ships in dock are not manned by a full crew. They usually have 2 guards so that one can be on duty at all time.
> 
> ...



This is a good idea, and has the potential to use everyone's talents. However, there has not (as yet) been any noticeable traffic in and out of the Harbor. So, if you go forward with an idea like this, you need a way to get out of the area without undue attention. You could try to make the boat invisible, but you don't want it to just disappear--that's just as suspicious. However, if it seemed like it exploded, or something, you'd be able to delay suspicion until they figure out that there's no wreckage, at least. 

On another note, if you're going to try to steel multiple boats (not a bad idea), you'll need a place to hide them. Taking them to a known port will serve some good, but it's asking a lot if they haven't already joined your side. Is there a place to build a hidden "shadow port" in the area? That's the kind of thing you need if you're going to start guerilla warfare on the high seas....

If you can build a city in the forest, why not a port, as well? 

Just some thoughts from me as if I were a player--this is not me in my role as "The Universe"

--KCB


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

*Woodpile, isnt it true that you masqueraded as eels & shocked Zorak with this wrench?*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I've hashed through it with Kennon all day-- and, realistically, it is not the best idea. Getting the cannons, having Xath compose and sing/perform is a much better idea. At that point, we travel with the cannon and spread the "gospel" of the phoenix.
> 
> Pushing the ship on a city:
> 1. Puts the draconids on our trail
> ...



A couple of good points here. Although you don't NEED the ship, it's big help no matter how you measure it. Morale, recruitment, equipment, capabilities--it's a shot in the arm in all of those areas. 

However, as I have said before, don't get too ambitious too fast. You might want to seperate the "Theft" Op (short for operation ) from the "Triumphant entry into potentially friendly port for recruiting purposes" Op because of the simple fact that it may be out of your reach to achieve both at once.

If you choose to seperate them, you still need a place to keep the ship in the mean time--eventually, you're going to have to show it to people. The real question is, *what are you going to do with it before that time?*


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

*As a general note....*

Whenever you DO choose to try to sneak into Oceanus, the bluff thing that I think Gertie brought up earlier is awesome--messing with their heads has got to help, at least a little.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> A couple of good points here. Although you don't NEED the ship, it's big help no matter how you measure it. Morale, recruitment, equipment, capabilities--it's a shot in the arm in all of those areas.
> 
> However, as I have said before, don't get too ambitious too fast. You might want to seperate the "Theft" Op (short for operation ) from the "Triumphant entry into potentially friendly port for recruiting purposes" Op because of the simple fact that it may be out of your reach to achieve both at once.
> 
> If you choose to seperate them, you still need a place to keep the ship in the mean time--eventually, you're going to have to show it to people. The real question is, *what are you going to do with it before that time?*




If we're going to break it down, we can steal the first one for cannons (useful as proof AND in defense of Hyrwl) and scuttle the ship so as not to have to worry about it until we're ready.  Just a thought.

And to address Mik, I think the options have been outlined in several posts (I have tried to at least), I think the final decision is awaiting consideration by people other than just Liz, Kat and myself (maybe I'm wrong).  Either way, I think we're set whichever way we go, the naval plan seems a little more developed (the debate there centering on what do we do AFTER we have the damn ship, an important consideration to be sure), but I think we're relatively set either way.

After today I think we've hashed out most of the issues regarding our current options for an initial action against the invaders.  Now, we just need to choose which way to go.  I will follow whichever way we go.

Finally:  Mik, have you had a chance to look at my SoP offerings?  Just wondering if you have any feedback, since it appears to be our project.


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## Xath (Apr 29, 2004)

*How did you know?*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> You could try to make the boat invisible, but you don't want it to just disappear--that's just as suspicious. However, if it seemed like it exploded, or something, you'd be able to delay suspicion until they figure out that there's no wreckage, at least.




How did you know?  In the same series mentioned above, they pretended to make the ship explode so no one would come looking for it.

One of the spells I could take for 4th level is Hallucinatory terrain.  Can that spell make normal boat terrain look like exploded/burning boat terrain?  Or even better, can it make Ocean terrain look like ocean with exploded boat on it terrain?

Remember in Thanesport, when the boat exploded and sank REALLY quickly (although this never actually happened)  An explosion like that could just leave random bits of debris...like if we took 2 bags of holding, filled them with debris, and then scattered them on the water.  We make the ship invisible, have the hallucinatory explosion, and then we sail away to bright horizons.

Time for bed...maybe...


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## Xath (Apr 29, 2004)

*Posting*

I'm posting this because I don't feel that I have posted enough on the boards recently.  This ups me by one.


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> How did you know?  In the same series mentioned above, they pretended to make the ship explode so no one would come looking for it.
> 
> One of the spells I could take for 4th level is Hallucinatory terrain.  Can that spell make normal boat terrain look like exploded/burning boat terrain?  Or even better, can it make Ocean terrain look like ocean with exploded boat on it terrain?
> 
> ...



 Hallucinatory terrain can certainly make an empty bit of sea look like there is debris all over it.  However, it can't replicate the explosion, or make the ship invisible.  Nonetheless, at least it's something.


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## Laurel (Apr 29, 2004)

*Group thoughts/ideas/plans *

Okay so trying to go through everything and put into one thing what I think we have and still have to figure out. 
_Disclaimer: This is a 'I'm trying to figure it out' not a 'this is what is' or 'this is what has been agreed to'._

*Operation Theft-*
1) we get to boat
2) we steal boat
3) we sail away on it
4) we hide/scuttle it

for 1-how are we getting there? 
a) using the rowboats and folding boat to quietly sneak in via water
b) using disguises
c) use teleport
d) ?

for 3- how do we get away?
a) have the ship appear to blow up
b) just sail fast
c) ?

for 4- what to do with the ship?
a) take ship to port already existing/established
b) find the possible start of a Phoenix/Shadow port and hide ship there
c) take at least one cannon to Hywrl/New Oceanus scuttle ship
d) ?

*Goals:*
1) To have more proof that king is working with draconoids and evil/bad
2) To have more defenses for Phoenix Army
3) To laugh at the enemy with our victory/victory for Phoenix Army
4) To raise moral with victory for Phoenix Army
5) To have an operation non-gong show
6) To show us working/obtaining goals/leading as 4-star General's


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## Xath (Apr 29, 2004)

*The Speech*

I've been working on the speech for the people of Oceanus and it has occured to me that everything we want to say is alot for these people to absorb in one sitting.  Taking a page out of Mr. Billy Flynn's book, I think we should promote 1-2 new ideas at a time over the course of several speaches. Maybe we can have a town meeting once per week.  Not only will this give people time to absorb, but it will give us time to get evidence about certain things before we go shouting them all over the place.  I think we should announce the formation of an army in the first week.  That should go over well.  To add to that, we can put the amnesty to the bluemages. (to further the army, and increase the chances of getting Oceanus back).  We should wait to denounce the King until we have as much evidence as possible.  Then we wait.  The next week we announce Jaine.  If we announce her during the same speech as we slander the king, we have a chance for some serious anti-Jaine sentiments to build up.

Also...if the Bluemages are already on our side, nothing makes a crowd respond the way you want them to faster, than hearing other people respond that way.

In other words:

Have some mages spread discreetly through the crowd during the speeches.  At the appropriate times, they Ghost Sounds the responses that we want all over the crowd.  When the people hear that, they'd respond too.  Hopefully in the way we want them to. 

Also I'm having severe problems remembering when to use to and when to use too.


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I've been working on the speech for the people of Oceanus and it has occured to me that everything we want to say is alot for these people to absorb in one sitting. Taking a page out of Mr. Billy Flynn's book, I think we should promote 1-2 new ideas at a time over the course of several speaches. Maybe we can have a town meeting once per week. Not only will this give people time to absorb, but it will give us time to get evidence about certain things before we go shouting them all over the place. I think we should announce the formation of an army in the first week. That should go over well. To add to that, we can put the amnesty to the bluemages. (to further the army, and increase the chances of getting Oceanus back). We should wait to denounce the King until we have as much evidence as possible. Then we wait. The next week we announce Jaine. If we announce her during the same speech as we slander the king, we have a chance for some serious anti-Jaine sentiments to build up.
> 
> Also...if the Bluemages are already on our side, nothing makes a crowd respond the way you want them to faster, than hearing other people respond that way.
> 
> ...



In general, you need to think how this would work in a movie, rather than how this would work in real life--town meetings are great for real life change, but in a movie, it'd be one rousing speech, and then cheers/action--so, go with the movie version, and I won't penalize you guys.

Ghost sound is a great idea.  Very clever--DO IT.  

Also, you use "too" to mean "also," as well as for saying something is "too much" or "too little" or "too dumb" etc.  

"to" is used everywhere else, except for when you are instead using "two."


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

*OOH!  OOH!  I have an idea!*

I just took a step back to examine what I *think* you all are planning, and I had an idea that may benefit you.  The real reason we're trying to hide the ship as it leaves the harbor is to 1) prevent the immediate loss of the prize, and 2) minimize enemy observation of what we're doing.  

If you can't arrange things so that you can get out of the harbor at Oceanus without being seen at all, the real focus is just preventing pursuit.  if you could get past some the outer most vessels, and then have some of them (or all of them) sink, blocking the harbor and trapping other ships within, you can sail off in plain sight, only having to worry about pursuit from above.  If you could plant some drakepowder (term for black powder) on several of the outer vessels as part of the operation, you could detonate them as you escape, and call it good.


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## Laurel (Apr 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> In general, you need to think how this would work in a movie, rather than how this would work in real life--town meetings are great for real life change, but in a movie, it'd be one rousing speech, and then cheers/action--so, go with the movie version, and I won't penalize you guys.
> 
> Ghost sound is a great idea. Very clever--DO IT.



Cool with the ghost sound idea--
When we get together are we going to go through saying the speech/you saying the reactions or it going to be done like the funeral with us giving you the speech and you sayign okay they like ya?


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Cool with the ghost sound idea--
> When we get together are we going to go through saying the speech/you saying the reactions or it going to be done like the funeral with us giving you the speech and you sayign okay they like ya?



 It will depend on my mood on saturday.  I'll probably make you say it, but it should go much better, because Edriss isn't there to taint/misinterpret everything you say.  

...unless you guys think I should wait for Tim and Greg to be there before we do the speech thing...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 29, 2004)

*Kat's Plan Post...*

As for what to do with the ship:

It seems to be that we have two options...

1.) We can keep the ship and the cannons...

If this is the case we need to get the ship to Hyrwl... So... We establish a place along the coast...

At that place, we will have already arranged to meet several able-bodied men with logs and ropes to slowly drag the ship the 20 or so miles back to Hyrwl...
It'll probably take a good 24 hours but, we'll manage.

2.) We ditch the ship and just take the cannons...

We pull up by the shore, unload our evidence, and make like a fetus... carrying a huge cannon... and head out... to Hyrwl


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> At that place, we will have already arranged to meet several able-bodied men with logs and ropes to slowly drag the ship the 20 or so miles back to Hyrwl...
> It'll probably take a good 24 hours but, we'll manage.



I bet a dinosaur could really haul that thing, if you choose to do something like this.  Now where could you get one of those...?  

...

Oh wait!


----------



## Laurel (Apr 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> As for what to do with the ship:
> It seems to be that we have two options...
> 1.) We can keep the ship and the cannons...
> If this is the case we need to get the ship to Hyrwl... So... We establish a place along the coast...
> ...



I am still not sure why we would be trying to get the ship on land.  If we have people meeting us at shore, Seaborn, the sailors, and anyone else, there will be lots of people able to convey/relate the story from 'I saw this with my own eyes'.  I do not think we need everyone to see it, but we do need some to see it.
Maybe keep the ship, but keep it on the water where it could do some good-have Seaborn give alliegence to us for ship, but we still take one cannon to Hywrl for defences purposes.

As for Yoshi, see there is a reason we have been keeping him around


----------



## Xath (Apr 29, 2004)

*Website*

I'm making a few new pages for the website.  

One is called Random bits of In-Game Narration.  If you have anything like that (conversations between characters, things like "The Solution, Like it or Not" etc) send it to me for posting please.

The second page is called Character Resources, and that will have things like letters, prophecies, etc.  Also send those if you have any.

Also.  I still need pictures, character info, and news from many of you.


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Maybe keep the ship, but keep it on the water where it could do some good-have Seaborn give alliegence to us for ship, but we still take one cannon to Hywrl for defences purposes.



This is fine, but if you're going to keep it in the water, you need to keep it hidden, somehow--I'm not sure how, but then that's not really my job.  

There are numerous historical instances of people hauling ships overland from one body of water to another, as well as pulling them ashore to hide them.  It can go back *in* the water eventually, but it's not doing you any good if it just gets sunk.  

One cannon isn't going to do a lot to defend the city, but every little bit helps.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I am still not sure why we would be trying to get the ship on land.  If we have people meeting us at shore, Seaborn, the sailors, and anyone else, there will be lots of people able to convey/relate the story from 'I saw this with my own eyes'.  I do not think we need everyone to see it, but we do need some to see it.
> Maybe keep the ship, but keep it on the water where it could do some good-have Seaborn give alliegence to us for ship, but we still take one cannon to Hywrl for defences purposes.
> 
> As for Yoshi, see there is a reason we have been keeping him around




The main reason, as I understand it, is because having one ship does not a Navy make and, for the foreseeable future, the Draconids will own the waves.  It's no good to put Seaborn and Co. on the sea in a situation where they almost assuredly will die.  Thus, the scuttle or take inland debate.  If we take it in (maybe not all the way to Hyrwl, but somewhere we can hide it), then we still have the ship, and it can be used at some later time...say after we acquire some more ships.  Of course, if we take all the cannons to Hyrwl (which we probably should, because those would be damn useful whatever we eventually choose to do in terms of taking back Oceanus, as well as their uses for defense until then), then the ship becomes mostly a nice toy.

Actually, now that I think about it, we should probably put acquiring cannons somewhere on the priority list...they were, after all the weapon that made walls obsolete...

As a note, I use cannons instead of Steel Drakes to avoid confusion, since I believe the same term has been used to identify pistols/muskets as well.  If I'm wrong...dammit!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 29, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> The main reason, as I understand it, is because having one ship does not a Navy make and, for the foreseeable future, the Draconids will own the waves.  It's no good to put Seaborn and Co. on the sea in a situation where they almost assuredly will die.  Thus, the scuttle or take inland debate.  If we take it in (maybe not all the way to Hyrwl, but somewhere we can hide it), then we still have the ship, and it can be used at some later time...say after we acquire some more ships.  Of course, if we take all the cannons to Hyrwl (which we probably should, because those would be damn useful whatever we eventually choose to do in terms of taking back Oceanus, as well as their uses for defense until then), then the ship becomes mostly a nice toy.
> 
> Actually, now that I think about it, we should probably put acquiring cannons somewhere on the priority list...they were, after all the weapon that made walls obsolete...




Just finding a place to hide the thing for a while is an excellent idea, Jeremiah!  YAY for you!

That, for now, seems like the best plan of action.  We find a place to store it... and then, haul the cannons with us if, indeed, we decide that we need to keep the ship.  However, if acquiring the ships ends up easier than we thought, we might just be able to leave ship #1 behind and go back for more later...
Just a thought.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Actually, now that I think about it, we should probably put acquiring cannons somewhere on the priority list...they were, after all the weapon that made walls obsolete...
> 
> As a note, I use cannons instead of Steel Drakes to avoid confusion, since I believe the same term has been used to identify pistols/muskets as well. If I'm wrong...dammit!



Good points, all.  As for the stuff quoted above....

Acquiring cannons/using black powder weapons appear to be the only real advantage you have against these guys.  Although that may not last, unless the dwarves in Arutha's Forge (the location of one of the major foundries for making steeldrakes) manage to hold out much longer than Oceanus has.  Since you're already rebels, you might as well use them, though....if only there was a place where you could get a bunch of them...

As for naming conventions, I can maybe help, here.  

Steeldrakes are the general term for ALL blackpowder weapons.  The powder itself is referred to as "Drakepowder."  Generally, pistols and cannon are referred to as simply "steeldrakes."  Usage is used to determine whether you're talking about a big one or a little one.  Muskets (as opposed to belt pistols)  are referred to as "Draconets."

If you have an idea for a different name for the cannons other than "steeldrake cannons" let me know--I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## Archon (Apr 29, 2004)

*fish are quiet*

i have a better idea where we're headed and it sounds good. and Jerimiah as for your SoP for the squad i think in general the human squad is less powerful and flexible. i see the Shadows as focusing more on Sneakery then strength. your take on seems like an elite footsoldier squad as iopposed to my less combat savy "sneak squad". i like that you took a different take on it but i think i like my cheesy "Eyes" and "Menders" better. if you want to open up a new thread to discuss this please do and just leave me a link here. that way we can go into more detail and debate this objectively.
take it easy folks.
mik "Cpt. Sneak"


----------



## Archon (Apr 29, 2004)

*turning gold*

this makes my 50th post. 
"yay." 
go me. i'm still way behind.


----------



## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> this makes my 50th post.
> "yay."
> go me. i'm still way behind.



 *streamers and confetti fall from the sky*


----------



## Xath (Apr 29, 2004)

heheheh....what if we set up some kind of explosion in the city and, disguised as draconids, caused a mass panic, spreading the word to flee the city...


SAVE YOURSELVES!!!

Yes, i realize this is a stupid plan.  But i thought i'd post it anyway.


----------



## Laurel (Apr 29, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> The main reason, as I understand it, is because having one ship does not a Navy make and, for the foreseeable future, the Draconids will own the waves. It's no good to put Seaborn and Co. on the sea in a situation where they almost assuredly will die. Thus, the scuttle or take inland debate. If we take it in (maybe not all the way to Hyrwl, but somewhere we can hide it), then we still have the ship, and it can be used at some later time...say after we acquire some more ships. Of course, if we take all the cannons to Hyrwl (which we probably should, because those would be damn useful whatever we eventually choose to do in terms of taking back Oceanus, as well as their uses for defense until then), then the ship becomes mostly a nice toy.



Cool explination that helps thanks! 
We may not be given a choice, but if we try and keep the ship- I am not sure if there are rivers around (no maps with me) but that could be an option for hiding inland, but still making it easy to put to sea again.  We have to camoflauge it and any tracks it makes being dragged anyways.  I would say getting it to hywrl is not needed, but if that's what everyone goes for then okay.



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Actually, now that I think about it, we should probably put acquiring cannons somewhere on the priority list...they were, after all the weapon that made walls obsolete...



Absolute agreement here, and though originally we were just gearing for one as proof, getting a few for defenses and proof sounds much more solid and reasonable for cost of life.  Though the ship may eventually need the cannons, I think for now most of them can be put to better use defending hywrl/new oceanus.

I guess if we are able to get out undetected we should have ample time to hide ship and get a few cannons to Hywrl/new oceanus. 
If something goes wrong priority is getting as many cannons as possible to Hywrl/new oceanus?


----------



## Xath (Apr 29, 2004)

*Oh, I see*

Right, on days when I don't have time to check the boards, you guys go through 2-3 pages on the thread. But when I'm here, it's quiet. I get it.


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## AIM-54 (Apr 29, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i have a better idea where we're headed and it sounds good. and Jerimiah as for your SoP for the squad i think in general the human squad is less powerful and flexible. i see the Shadows as focusing more on Sneakery then strength. your take on seems like an elite footsoldier squad as iopposed to my less combat savy "sneak squad". i like that you took a different take on it but i think i like my cheesy "Eyes" and "Menders" better. if you want to open up a new thread to discuss this please do and just leave me a link here. that way we can go into more detail and debate this objectively.
> take it easy folks.
> mik "Cpt. Sneak"




Mik, got a thread started right here:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1511989#post1511989

So, I'll just say, I had to go about it differently than you, otherwise it would have been a pointless exercise.  But we can continue the debate, along with anyone else who wants in over there.


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## The_Universe (Apr 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I guess if we are able to get out undetected we should have ample time to hide ship and get a few cannons to Hywrl/new oceanus.
> If something goes wrong priority is getting as many cannons as possible to Hywrl/new oceanus?



I think priority one is still acquiring proof, not defenses.  Being able to gather people to your cause it ultimately going to be a lot more beneficial than adding a few cannons to the arsenal.  However, if you can do both, I see no problem with it.


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## Xath (Apr 30, 2004)

*Heads Up*

Just FYI, while at work this evening I began to formulate a plan to achieve our goals in Oceanus. It is as yet about 5-7 pages and only about 1/3 of it is detailed out.  So expect a large post from me tomorrow....or rather, later today.   Now it's time for bed.

By the way, the more coherent the plan is, the earlier I wrote it.

Gertie- gets paid to watch people get dressed


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## Xath (Apr 30, 2004)

*I forgot*

Also, this plan that I am posting is by no means something that I'm saying we HAVE to do.  I was just bored at work.  With no internet.  Time for bed.


----------



## Archon (Apr 30, 2004)

*good morning amigos*

look at me posting bright and early in the morning. for those of us that are leveling(which i think is all of us) is it cool if we take ranks in speak Draconic? i assume it's ok but i just wanted to make surey.
mik aka "Sunshine"


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## The_Universe (Apr 30, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> look at me posting bright and early in the morning. for those of us that are leveling(which i think is all of us) is it cool if we take ranks in speak Draconic? i assume it's ok but i just wanted to make surey.
> mik aka "Sunshine"



 Taking ranks in Draconic is fine.  I'm assuming that you found a couple more of the spies, and then made them teach you the language, rather than just burning through their heads with marks of justice.  

As for how learning new languages works, 1 rank lets you either read it or speak it enough to get the gist of various statements--like passing high school draconic.

2 ranks lets you BOTH read and speak the language, same proficiency as above.  

3 ranks gets you increasing fluency--as long as you never have to communicate particularly complicated ideas, you might be able to convince a draconid that you're one, too.  

4 ranks gets you fluency with a TERRIBLE accent.  

5 ranks is essentially a native speaker.  You know how to ask what the best blood-wines are in Draconic.


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## Laurel (Apr 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think priority one is still acquiring proof, not defenses. Being able to gather people to your cause it ultimately going to be a lot more beneficial than adding a few cannons to the arsenal. However, if you can do both, I see no problem with it.



Well, unless we are taking the city to the proof, the proof has to be brought to the city.  After we say 'look proof yada, yada, yada', it is there in Hywrl/New Oceanus so why not use them there too?  We will have some people/townsfolk seeing the ship taken from draconic army, but I thought we said we were taking something (whole ship or cannons-whatever group wants) back so the community can see it and it adds to our big movie like speech. 
That's all I was claiming/saying/suggesting.


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## Laurel (Apr 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Taking ranks in Draconic is fine. I'm assuming that you found a couple more of the spies, and then made them teach you the language, rather than just burning through their heads with marks of justice.



But Archonus seemed to be having fun with that


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## The_Universe (Apr 30, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, unless we are taking the city to the proof, the proof has to be brought to the city.  After we say 'look proof yada, yada, yada', it is there in Hywrl/New Oceanus so why not use them there too?  We will have some people/townsfolk seeing the ship taken from draconic army, but I thought we said we were taking something (whole ship or cannons-whatever group wants) back so the community can see it and it adds to our big movie like speech.
> That's all I was claiming/saying/suggesting.



 Hence, my statement that doing both was/is probably a good idea.   

I am looking forward to seeing how it all works out.


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## Laurel (Apr 30, 2004)

*The guy who normally coem up with the names is out today*

*Operation Queenie

1 –Archonus/L’Aurel/Kareth (?) track Jaine & Co. 

2- When Jaine is found, they let Justice know (run back, use horses, mind meld, use Bob). 

3- Justice comes on Thane carrying Xath. 

4- Jaine gets on Thane with Justice and Jaine goes invisible 

5- Xath turns into Jaine. 

6- Justice takes Jaine to Link’s tree house

7- Justice takes still invisible Jaine into tree house into secure room. –maybe two go for protection??

8- Xath & Co. hopefully make it back with little resistance and go to Tree house –maybe ferried by Thane little quicker then walking. Everyone ends in the same room.

9- Let Jaine talk to Korienne, Duke, and Seaborn so we get them on our side completely. Make an announcement ‘our Queen is coming in the morning.' Then get her out of the city right before hand and THEN have grand entrance with everyone having time to prepare streamers and flower petals or whatever people were envisioning here.

*


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## The_Universe (Apr 30, 2004)

funny colored post....weird font....eyes....bleeding....need help....


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## AIM-54 (Apr 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> funny colored post....weird font....eyes....bleeding....need help....




Not a fan of the pea soup effect, eh?


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## The_Universe (Apr 30, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Not a fan of the pea soup effect, eh?



 Since my eyes exploded earlier today, I am merely guessing at the contents and author of the quote, above.  

HOWEVER: No, Jeremiah, I am not a big fan--most of the funny colored posts make my eyes hurt, as they don't work very well on the black background that is the standard for the boards.  In some cases, using another color for emphasis is cool, but after a while it gets old.


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## Laurel (Apr 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Since my eyes exploded earlier today, I am merely guessing at the contents and author of the quote, above.
> 
> HOWEVER: No, Jeremiah, I am not a big fan--most of the funny colored posts make my eyes hurt, as they don't work very well on the black background that is the standard for the boards. In some cases, using another color for emphasis is cool, but after a while it gets old.



If your and aparently everyone else's eyes recover from the bright green above---

 gripe, gripe, gripe... then tell me a color I can use?  
I paste from Word a lot and it shows up as black type on black background unless I change the color.  I can not get the exact color these posts normally show up in.  So as even you stated before, instead of just complaining give me a suggestion! I have had complaints for all the colors I have tried -No to white, yellow, green, etc.  
But hey I guess if there is not a color that can work, I can just stick to read-only from now on.  Much to everyone's relief.


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## The_Universe (Apr 30, 2004)

*You are the wind beneath my wings....*

White is what I use when I copy/paste--I check the post for errors if I don't type it in directly, then highlight and change to white before hitting "post." But, the complaint is genuinely good natured. My eyes aren't REALLY bleeding.

Much. 

Often. 



Nonetheless, most of the time I'm just typing down in the quick reply box, so it doesn't really effect me that much.


----------



## Xath (Apr 30, 2004)

*A Really Rough Outline*

Arcane Ops

Alright, through this plan, we should be able to acomplish several goals.
1. Cause severe havoc and destruction to the Draconids.
2. Gain information on the goings on in the city. (like who the leader)
3. Steal a boat.

This will also happen with (hopefully) minimal casualties.  To complete this, we will need 4 squads of spell casters (Blue, Red, Green, and Grey) and a large support team back at Hyrule. Using a combination of Havoc, Misdirection, Deception, and Infiltration, we should be able to accomplish this goal with a minimum number of casualties.

Trust me, I've worked out the numbers and we can pull this plan off.

During the day...

Green Squad- Responsible for gaining control of a boat in the Harbor.  They will disguise themselves as Draconids and relieve a crew on duty.  (Usually 2-4 people).  The boat has already been chosen.  It is one of the faster of the cannon laden boats and it is already in the harbor, not up on the docks.  Two members of Green Squad will be above decks at all times, scraping barnacles by day, and 1 member will be on guard at night, keeping watch.  (This is the rotation of duty the draconids are keeping on the boats) In case of capture, members of Green Squad will not know the missions of Blue Squad, Red Squad, or Grey Squad.

Grey Squad- Responsible for gathering information.  They will attempt to find out information on who is leading the city, what is happening to the elves, where the elves are being held, where the spirit blade is, etc.  (If you have anything you want to know from the city, let me know and I will add it to the itinerary) To get out of the city, Grey Squad will make their way to the captured boat at sunset.  In case of capture, Grey Squad will not know the missions of Blue Squad and Red Squad.

After Nightfall...

Blue Squad- Bluesquad is responsible for bringing troops away from the docks.  The 10 members will be teleported to equally spaced points along the West wall of Oceanus.  They will cast silent image to make it appear as though there are catapaults attacking Oceanus.  Then they will find(locate object) and Reduce(as the spell) various cornerstones of the West wall (these are the stones that support most of the weight of the wall).  Thus a large portion (if not all) of the north wall will fall.  Blue Squad will then fly away.

Red Squad- Red Squad is responsible for causing destruction, mayhem, and distraction on the docks.  They work in pairs.  One mage casts Grease, and the other Burning Hands as many times as they can.  Then A-member casts pyrotechnics to cause a smokescreen as B-member casts Alter Self.  B-Member lifts A-Member, soars off of the cliff, and down to the boat below. 

Both Red Squad and Blue Squad's Attacks take less then 1 minute, including teleportation.  I have these attacks worked down to the round.

Once members of Red/Green/and Grey squads are on the boats, the mages in Hyrule will teleport McShippy, his crew, and the Earthmage, and Arin Greyclaw to the boat (which they will have been scrying on).

As the boat sails towards the north of the Harbour, the EarthMage will cast Move Earth to lower the sandbar enough for the ship to pass. (takes 10 minutes)  During this time, Mages with available spells cast Obscuring Mist/Fog Cloud across the harbor to disguise the ship.  Arin Greyclaw casts Control Wind to make the winds move in our favor.  And the boat escapes the harbour without having to pass by the bone goliathan.

At our secret port/cove/harbor, Yoshi and his keeper (Kat or Tim) wait with soldiers and logs and wheels to pull the Ironclad to Hyrule.

The reason the primary attackers are all spell casters is because they have a much better chance of being able to escape the city by themselves.  One mage can do a crap load of more damage than 1 fighter.

This will all be planned out to the ROUND.  and much of it already is.  Let me know what you think of the general idea before i go more into detail.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Apr 30, 2004)

Xath, your plan is excellent-- however, I think it tried to accmoplish too much for our first mission.

We've all discussed this quite a bit.  This is not our only trip into the city--simply the first. As such, we need to keep the scope of this missing small and precise.
As such, I would suggest splitting up your plan into several "trips" as opposed to one large-scale "vacation," as it were...

Seems to be that the boat is number one priority and information is second--because of this, the gathering of information may have to occur during trip #2...

However, I do think that you are totally on the right track and your plan has a lot of potential if it is seperated into different missions into Oceanus!

YAY GERTIE!  You are the coolest!


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## Xath (May 1, 2004)

I just bought Dungeons & Dragons the movie on DVD.

To balance it, I bought Star Trek VI.

Am I still a gamer?  Have I sold out? Why do I feel so dirty...


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## The_Universe (May 1, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I just bought Dungeons & Dragons the movie on DVD.
> 
> To balance it, I bought Star Trek VI.
> 
> Am I still a gamer?  Have I sold out? Why do I feel so dirty...



 God...I don't even know you, anymore...who are you?


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## Archon (May 1, 2004)

*by the power of Greyskull!!!*

hey if they give you crap about owning D&D the movie just tell them, 
"well mik bought Masters of the Universe!"
yeah...
mik aka "He-Man"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 1, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I just bought Dungeons & Dragons the movie on DVD.
> 
> To balance it, I bought Star Trek VI.
> 
> Am I still a gamer?  Have I sold out? Why do I feel so dirty...




*shakes head*

Gertie... you sicken me.  Dungeons and Dragons the movie is the black hole of all movie goodness... your movie collection is enternally damned.


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## AIM-54 (May 1, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I just bought Dungeons & Dragons the movie on DVD.
> 
> To balance it, I bought Star Trek VI.
> 
> Am I still a gamer?  Have I sold out? Why do I feel so dirty...





Balance!!??  BALANCE???  You have disturbed the force!!  The voices of millions of gamers have cried out and been suddenly silenced...there is no tomorrow...


And I haven't even seen  the damn thing.


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## The_Universe (May 1, 2004)

You don't EVER want to see it--there is a point in the film where one of the heroes dies....and I cheered. I hated it so much that I was glad when one of the good guys bought the farm. 

Also, there is a scene where a Beholder (you know, the thing with eyes all over it?) is distracted by a thrown rock.


----------



## Xath (May 1, 2004)

*Awwwww....*

But it was only $4.  I spend more than that coming to see you guys every week. 

Think of it this way.  You guys are worth more to me than that movie.

Also...what do you think of the plan?


----------



## The_Universe (May 1, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> But it was only $4.  I spend more than that coming to see you guys every week.
> 
> Think of it this way.  You guys are worth more to me than that movie.
> 
> Also...what do you think of the plan?



 We'll talk more about the plan whenever you get here.  We're up and moving, already.


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## Xath (May 2, 2004)

*Woot!!!*

Hooray for us! We win!


----------



## The_Universe (May 2, 2004)

A battle has been won, but the war is just beginning...

Still, great job everybody.   *sniffle* I'm proud.  The boat op will go down as one of the best-done ops ever.


----------



## Archon (May 3, 2004)

*look at my character growing*

and Archon didn't mess it up. yay!!
mik aka "Milx"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 3, 2004)

*Prestige Class*

I am working on a prestige class for Justice...

I've posted it for critiques and the like... if you want to take a look go for it...
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86990

Having trouble thinking of a name for it...

Maybe: Flame of the Apecto, Fire of Circe, Apectan Devotee, The Solaris, or The Virago... (fun with the latin to english dictionary!)

Anyway, I'm sure I'm boring you... but, if you want to take a look-- check out the thread and I'll attach it now...

Let me know your thoughts...


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## Xath (May 3, 2004)

*Plan....eugh*

So...we're going to storm the palace, sneakily like.  We *SHOULD* have a plan.  But after all of the planning we've done recently, I know I certainly don't have the mental capacity to think of anything.  So I say, we wing it.

Also, If anyone talks to me tomorrow morning, remind me to eat breakfast.  I realized that once again, I've only had what could amount to 1 meal today.  I keep forgetting to eat.  So remind me.  Please.  

Note.  The above may appear to be very confusing and sad.  Make no mistake, that's because it is.  But I've talked it over with my peers and found that I'm not the only one who has completely forgotten to eat during tech.  Proving once again the theatre people are wierd.  OK.  Time for bed.


----------



## Xath (May 3, 2004)

Hey, ENWorld fixed daylight savings time.


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## Laurel (May 3, 2004)

We Planned, We Fought, We Lived, We Won! Yeah! 

I think in light of that success I vote we should try the whole plan/ objective/back-up again- anyone else?

As Xath said, basically-
a) go into Oceanus, 
b) get info. on elves and mistress, 
c) get to top of palace, 
d) work our way down
e) then leave all alive and in perfect health

When are we thinking, timeline, this happens?  
This may change defenses they have, people we have in the camp, people we have trained, etc.  If we already said on Sat. just remind me, as my mind was fading towards the end there  

For gaming this upcoming week- I think we are shooting for saturday again.  Greg and I should have no problems with that day, but Tim is going back home for Mother's Day so he is out for next weekend


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 3, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We Planned, We Fought, We Lived, We Won! Yeah!
> 
> I think in light of that success I vote we should try the whole plan/ objective/back-up again- anyone else?
> 
> ...




Based on the fact that we were all riding high from the ship-stealing success of the evening, our planning was quite--ummm--arrogant.

I think we need to step back and truly understand what we are suggesting in actually attempting to get INTO the palace, kill everything on the way out, and then, expect that we will be able to exit the city without being caught.

I think, under some circumstances, that this would be possible with the right group of people.  However, the non-sneaky people cause a MAJOR problem with this plan of action... and, at the same time, withou the non-sneaky people, this plan becomes almost impossible.

Even if you take Justice out of her crazy dex-mod armor, she still cannot move quietly worth a crap and, by no means does she want to threaten the safety of the group.
I don't know what Arfin's move silently/hide checks are but, I am assuming the same is true for him.

I just want everybody to stand back and take a look at the plan--try to put it into perspective, weigh the pros and cons, and to truly understand what trying to lay siege upon the palace will mean for the group.

If our characters are captured, we are probably not going to get out of it alive.  This mission, more than any other, threatens the entire group.

Do you think we're up for it?


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## The_Universe (May 3, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We Planned, We Fought, We Lived, We Won! Yeah!
> 
> I think in light of that success I vote we should try the whole plan/ objective/back-up again- anyone else?
> 
> ...



 It has to be after day 27, because that's when you retrieved Jaine.  I'm guessing big welcome happened on day 28, so that's out, unless you hope to distract the spies in the camp with the party...?  So, no earlier than the night of day 28.  

Also, once Jaine is in town, you'll have access to far greater resources than what you had before, which means construction can begin on the wall.  

I agree TOTALLY that you guys should try to plan out your entrance/exit again, as that worked beautifully for you this weekend.  However, this time when you construct the plan, make sure that you know the ranges/durations/radii of the spells you're going to use ahead of time, so that you don't have to switch gears from fog cloud to horrible blizzard at the drop of a hat.  

Also, I nominate Kat to tell Greg that Arfin is going to have temporarily downgrade to light armor for this mission, unless you guys find a really good use for a loud, shiny dwarf.    As always, if you want input/ideas/information from the various NPCs in the camp, let me know.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 3, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It has to be after day 27, because that's when you retrieved Jaine.  I'm guessing big welcome happened on day 28, so that's out, unless you hope to distract the spies in the camp with the party...?  So, no earlier than the night of day 28.
> 
> Also, once Jaine is in town, you'll have access to far greater resources than what you had before, which means construction can begin on the wall.
> 
> ...




The entrance to the city can happen in a couple of ways...

We can scry to find a building that seems, for the most part, unoccupied and teleport into there.

We can try the elemental thing and tunnel our way to an unoccupied building.

We can attempt invisibility and simply walk across no-mans land and scale the wall.

We can take the folding boat out and around... utilize invisibility and other spiffy spells to get ourselves into the harbor and then, use the elevators to get up into the city...

As for exiting... maybe we can plan to sneak back to the docks and steal another ship.

We may also plan to use the folding boat for this task...

Arfin and Justice, without some sort of magical enchantment are both going to have to wear different armor--not such a big deal for Justice because  I have DR 5/evil and other spells that can up my AC... but, we may have some issues with Arfin...

Moreover, if we are going to go down this path, we need to have very specific strategy for what if's...
What if one of us gets caught?
What if all of us get caught?
What if one of us dies?
What if someone gets turned into vile undead?
Etc... etc... etc...

LOTS of questions to be answered before we can undertake this mission...

Justice can cast Invisibility to Undead... but, that doesn't do us a whole lot of good...

My thoughts for now...


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## The_Universe (May 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Do you think we're up for it?



To be quite frank, maybe.    The ship was a cakewalk, mostly because you guys are of much higher level than your average grunt.  The palace will be much more difficult, but by no means will it be impossible.  As I said saturday night, ANY attempt to get into the palace will be *VERY* _*ballsy*_ by nature.

What you CAN'T have happen (if you want to succeed at getting into the palace) is the little spell switcheroo with the fog cloud/blizzard I mentioned above.  You need to be more careful in outlining your capabilties...if you get to the city and have to pull a switcheroo this time, I won't be so lenient, in part because you won't be able to bring the entire force of spellcasters along on this mission.  

Nonetheless, I do think there is a place for everyone in the mission, as even the less-sneaky can serve their purpose here.  You might have to redistribute some equipment, and choose your spells in a manner slightly different than normal, but I DO think that it's possible for a strike-team like mission to succeed.  

If C-3P0 (who is made of golden metal) can participate in an infiltration mission, so can even the clumsiest of your forces.  The cost for mistakes will be high, but if you succeed, the rewards will be GREAT.  The very chance that you could decapitate the leaders here would do wonders for the cause, and for the people.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 3, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> To be quite frank, maybe.    The ship was a cakewalk, mostly because you guys are of much higher level than your average grunt.  The palace will be much more difficult, but by no means will it be impossible.  As I said saturday night, ANY attempt to get into the palace will be *VERY* _*ballsy*_ by nature.
> 
> What you CAN'T have happen (if you want to succeed at getting into the palace) is the little spell switcheroo with the fog cloud/blizzard I mentioned above.  You need to be more careful in outlining your capabilties...if you get to the city and have to pull a switcheroo this time, I won't be so lenient, in part because you won't be able to bring the entire force of spellcasters along on this mission.
> 
> ...




Then, exit and entrance strats are paramount if we are going to do this business...

First step in planning this is to understand what resources we have...

So, start thinking about what things your characters have that can benefit the sneakery of others, allow to to blend in with the draconids, and simply help us survive...


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## Laurel (May 3, 2004)

*Possibilities...*

Okay I think before we get too planned into things- first do we want to do this? As I think both Kennon and Liz have said, this has to be decided first. 

On Saturday we decided we needed information on what is happening to the elves and who the mistress of Oceanus is, both these points have also been brought up through out the last few weeks. It was also determined that basically in order to get this info, we have to enter the palace specifically. 

What we know of the palace: The only one allowed to enter and leave the palace is Savatagor and the only elves who leave are ones that now make my skin crawl with evil and draconic like movements. We can not scry the palace. There are four white dragons on top of the palace, and wyverns flying onto and around it at all times.

We need this info. If there is absolutly no other way to get in besides sending someone in, then I vote we go in.


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## The_Universe (May 3, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay I think before we get too planned into things- first do we want to do this? As I think both Kennon and Liz have said, this has to be decided first.
> 
> On Saturday we decided we needed information on what is happening to the elves and who the mistress of Oceanus is, both these points have also been brought up through out the last few weeks. It was also determined that basically in order to get this info, we have to enter the palace specifically.
> 
> ...



 Clarification:  

Although potentially deadly, I think a raid into the palace (in the movie in my head) would be really freakin' cool!   

Also, I haven't thought of another way for you guys to get the information you need besides getting into the palace, but that does not mean that it doesn't exist...if you can think of another way, great--otherwise, you maybe need to accept the risks and move forward.


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## Laurel (May 3, 2004)

*Trying to make sure we get the info from last game down...*

I do not remember if Archonus asked Jaine about Fillmore or he was just happy her hubby wasn't around   (JOKING!), but if no one else does later that night while group is all around L'aurel asks Jaine "What happened/Where are Filmore and the other two dwarves?"
If Arhconus asked, then just remind me what the answer was  

Also, Liz, did you take Joshua aside at the camp area or did you wait until we get back to Hywrl --do not worry L'aurel does not talk to Joshua or interrupt any conversations whenever you have them that day  
Just putting the story together in my head.

THANKS!!!!


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## Xath (May 4, 2004)

A whole day, and 1 post? Jeez people, we're slacking.


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## Xath (May 4, 2004)

Right, so my computer didn't show me the new posts until after I'd posted the above.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 4, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I do not remember if Archonus asked Jaine about Fillmore or he was just happy her hubby wasn't around   (JOKING!), but if no one else does later that night while group is all around L'aurel asks Jaine "What happened/Where are Filmore and the other two dwarves?"
> If Arhconus asked, then just remind me what the answer was
> 
> Also, Liz, did you take Joshua aside at the camp area or did you wait until we get back to Hywrl --do not worry L'aurel does not talk to Joshua or interrupt any conversations whenever you have them that day
> ...




I'm planning on role playing through the conversation with Preston tomorrow evening...
Going to take good notes and, I will post everything that I find out there... need some time to go through my conversations with Fr. Dorn and the other game notes I have before I start asking my long-lost g-paw questions...

But, I'll fill y'all in ASAP!


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## The_Universe (May 4, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Right, so my computer didn't show me the new posts until after I'd posted the above.



 obviously, your computer is a fool.


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## Laurel (May 4, 2004)

*planning life*

So for gaming this upcoming weekend, I think we were planning for saturday:
Tim out all weekend
Greg is free Saturday
Kat is free after 12(noon) Saturday


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## Laurel (May 4, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, I nominate Kat to tell Greg that Arfin is going to have temporarily downgrade to light armor for this mission, unless you guys find a really good use for a loud, shiny dwarf.  As always, if you want input/ideas/information from the various NPCs in the camp, let me know.



Everyone, except Kareth, I think has on armor of some sort, and Archonus is the only one with shadow armor (we actually burned the other set of armor with the other bounty huntress's body).  Some of our armor is not at huge penalty, but we should try to compensate for it as much as possible.  We all would have to use black cloth, black paint, something on our armor, and for this mission we need armor!!!!!

Random thought: I or the regent can make a rat go into the sewers, we scry on it and see about getting into palace from below or at least see where the magic barrier is down there--

To duke- "For the layout of your palace, is the throne room on the bottom floor? What about balconies or other mid-level entrances? How many levels down does the palace go?"  -L'aurel may know, having seen where the throne room is and the outside of the palace, but I as Kat do not remember


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## The_Universe (May 4, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So for gaming this upcoming weekend, I think we were planning for saturday:
> Tim out all weekend
> Greg is free Saturday
> Kat is free after 12(noon) Saturday



 I'd like to try a saturday afternoon game.    I'll send out an e-mail tonight or tomorrow to that effect.


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## The_Universe (May 4, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> To duke- "For the layout of your palace, is the throne room on the bottom floor? What about balconies or other mid-level entrances? How many levels down does the palace go?"



"As far as I know, there are no subterranean levels of the palace--if there were, they would have been sealed off after my faily inherited the duchy from the original Greyclaws--the honored Woodshadow's father and brother.  

There are no balconies in the palace in Oceanus--certainly nothing like the balconies here in Hyrwl--Oceanus was founded as a oceanside fortress, rather than as a luxurious palace...the castle in Oceanus reflects that.  There are, of course, windows...but nothing so large that Kaereth could get in without squeezing. 

I suppose you could enter through the observatory on the top level...it's a small space, but there's really no higher point in the palace, other than some of the guard towers..."


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 4, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> There are no balconies in the palace in Oceanus--certainly nothing like the balconies here in Hyrwl--Oceanus was founded as a oceanside fortress, rather than as a luxurious palace...the castle in Oceanus reflects that.  There are, of course, windows...but nothing so large that Kaereth could get in without squeezing.




Isn't Kaereth only 5' 10" or something like that?  He's a really short half-orc...

Because if he's going to have to squeeze, Justice is going to have to, as well-- she's tall and buff. (not a buff as Kaereth)..

Seems to me, if any one is going to do any squeezing, it's going to be Arfin... but that has more to do with the rolley-polley aspect of things...


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## The_Universe (May 4, 2004)

Out of character, he's just saying that you could all fit, but that you can't just walk through like it's a door.  Get it?


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## Laurel (May 4, 2004)

*responce to Liz's comment of resources*

If we go through with this-

1) Arhconus has ring of chameleon
2) Xath and Justice can understand and speak draconic
3) L'aurel can understand draconic only
4) L'aurel has spells for hide/silent/jump
5) We have a hat of disguise
6) Justice can call an elemental
7) We have a potion/ring? of spider climb? 
8) The regent can call nature's ally
9) ?

Action: L'aurel shows/immulates to the group, as best she can, the distinctions in the draconic like elves walk

Not much but a start, and all I could think of right at this moment....


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 4, 2004)

Justice can cast invisibility to undead... and, she is generally pretty convincing bluff and diplomacy-wise.

My armor isn't that imparing... just have to make sure it is blackened for the sneaking.


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## AIM-54 (May 4, 2004)

There are two rings of climbing, one at +5 in Kaereth's possession and one of greater climbing (+10), which Archonus has, I believe.

As for the plan, I like the idea of the palace infiltration.  I might even say that such runs are among the top 3 reasons I play these games.  But we probably need good entrance and exit strategies.  I like the teleport in to an abandoned house and go from there idea, but we still need a viable exit strategy.  We may also need to establish parameters in which we call off the mission and retreat.  

Getting out, though, are we planning to have a mage come with us and hide to teleport us out or what?


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## The_Universe (May 4, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> There are two rings of climbing, one at +5 in Kaereth's possession and one of greater climbing (+10), which Archonus has, I believe.
> 
> As for the plan, I like the idea of the palace infiltration.  I might even say that such runs are among the top 3 reasons I play these games.  But we probably need good entrance and exit strategies.  I like the teleport in to an abandoned house and go from there idea, but we still need a viable exit strategy.  We may also need to establish parameters in which we call off the mission and retreat.
> 
> Getting out, though, are we planning to have a mage come with us and hide to teleport us out or what?



 At this point, bringing a mage of any sort with you could be very dangerous.  The only mages powerful enough to cast something like teleportation circle are not mages you can afford to lose--putting them anywhere in the city without your protection means they have to defend themselves, and ensure that they aren't noticed, all while ensuring they have enough magic to get you out of the city when you need them to.  Seems too dangerous, to me.


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## Xath (May 4, 2004)

So, got this really cool idea off of one of the boards.

We go to the portal and have invisibility and feather fall cast on us.

Then we teleport 100 ft above the palace, and feather fall to the roof.

Enter through the observatory.


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## The_Universe (May 4, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> So, got this really cool idea off of one of the boards.
> 
> We go to the portal and have invisibility and feather fall cast on us.
> 
> ...



 How will you see each other?  If you can't, can you signal instructions to each other in another way?  Coordination will be important here, and being blind to one another seems like a bad deal.


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## AIM-54 (May 4, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> At this point, bringing a mage of any sort with you could be very dangerous.  The only mages powerful enough to cast something like teleportation circle are not mages you can afford to lose--putting them anywhere in the city without your protection means they have to defend themselves, and ensure that they aren't noticed, all while ensuring they have enough magic to get you out of the city when you need them to.  Seems too dangerous, to me.




My point was less that such was a good idea and more along the lines of, while we have several (and indeed another) ideas for infiltration, our exfiltration plans need some serious thought and work.  If something goes wrong on the inside, exfiltration will also become ten times more difficult.  

What are our options for leaving the city?  Over the wall?  Magic?  Various flying beasts?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 4, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> How will you see each other?  If you can't, can you signal instructions to each other in another way?  Coordination will be important here, and being blind to one another seems like a bad deal.




This was exactly my thought when I read that post on the Infiltration! thread... it could be a really good idea... but, we would have to dispell our invisibility upon landing or something like that...

Also, do move silently checks apply to feather falling onto something?  Feather fall is a neat idea, but, you can still make a hell of a lot of noise...
"The affected creatures or objects fall slowly, though faster than feathers typically do.  Feather fall instantly changes the rate at which the targets fall to a mere 60 feet per round (equivalent to the end of a fall from a few feet)..."

For example, if I were to climb up on my chair and jump off... I would be doing the real-world equivalent of "feather falling" (well, kind of)... but, the people that live in the apartment below Kennon and I would definately hear the THUD as I hit the floor... Who's to say that someone below us doesn't hear the THUD of hitting the top of the palace?  It's one thing to walk silently... but, it seems to me that this is a different type of situation.

How do we remedy that?

There are some really interesting things on the Infiltration! thread, though...

I started it a week or so ago, now... if you haven't checked it out yet, you really should!

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86502&page=1&pp=20


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 4, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> My point was less that such was a good idea and more along the lines of, while we have several (and indeed another) ideas for infiltration, our exfiltration plans need some serious thought and work.  If something goes wrong on the inside, exfiltration will also become ten times more difficult.
> 
> What are our options for leaving the city?  Over the wall?  Magic?  Various flying beasts?





I've been thinking about it a lot... we have several options...

The folding boat is a useful tool that could be utilized for this purpose...

If things go as planned, we leave the city via the harbor in our push-button boat.

If things go wrong... well... if things go wrong... we're all screwed-- fight to the last breath and call it good. (not really, just having trouble thinking of a plan of action for that particular circumstance...)

But, there are a couple things that I see as necessities to prevent the slaughter of each of our characters:
-We need to stick together.  Seperating may seem sneaky and devious and murderous but, I don't think that we can chance having one of us get caught... I'd rather see all of us caught and trying to escape together than one of us caught and the rest of the group trying to get them out.
-We need to coordinate everything for this mission.  Asboslutely everything.
Lies need to be developed in advance, names, diplomacy, everything needs to be meticulously planned... if not, we're going to fall to pieces and be consumed by the undead.

... and that's all I got for the moment...


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## AIM-54 (May 4, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I've been thinking about it a lot... we have several options...
> 
> The folding boat is a useful tool that could be utilized for this purpose...
> 
> ...




I agree with your analysis there.  Teamwork will be key.  So will good planning.  That said, thinking about it, I like the harbor option.  It gets us away from the palace and if there is some hullabaloo at the palace, that will distract from the harbor, perhaps giving us a bit of an advantage there.    We may want to pre-plan our escape route, too.  But the key will be us working together and making use of our many talents to successfully conclude this mission.  Exciting stuff.


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## Laurel (May 4, 2004)

Okay, so it seems if we get a good plan we are goin in 

For the invisibility idea: on saturday we had discussed using it there too, and I remeber there was talk of some bubble invisibility? that would have allowed us to see each other, but be invisible to everyone else.  We didn't use it since it was a small bubble and not for the entire ship.  
Even if we can not see each other, we just need to be invisible through the fall to the roof.  Once there we can go back to regular hiding.  I just like the invisibility stuff....

For the featherfall- this would be cool, but do we know how far up the anti-magic shield goes?  There is still the issue of the sound of the landing though.

As for an exit plan: Why not stick to one area? Instead of trying to get all the way to the docks through bluffing or sneakery -more chance for mistake or problems on the way.  Get to bottom of palace and tunnel our way out (through Justice's elemental).  We could tunnel straight north and have a ship off the coast ready to get us there, since we can not tunnel (do not want to tunnel) in the direction of New Oceanus.  We would also need to somehow collapse the tunnel after us so no pursuers at our backs.


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## Laurel (May 4, 2004)

Huge fan of no splitting up!!!! That is the whole reason we are going as a group. I would say though that in that light once in the palace, we should already have a walking/line order, who interrogates, who knocks people out, etc. That way when we hear foot steps there is an automatic reaction of bribers (Justice/Xath) staying in hallway while others hold back/flank. Bribers get them into position and then smash (Kareth/Arfin/Archonus) quickly and cleanly kill/knock out enemies. Then take bodies into rooms, it is already set in place who gets to interrogate, they do thier thing. We move on. Back-up will need to be posted outside or at door in case people go by in hallway or try to go to room. 
As Liz said there needs to be stories set-up beforehand, so there is no fumbling with why we are here or where we are going or any such stuff.


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## AIM-54 (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> As for an exit plan: Why not stick to one area? Instead of trying to get all the way to the docks through bluffing or sneakery -more chance for mistake or problems on the way.  Get to bottom of palace and tunnel our way out (through Justice's elemental).  We could tunnel straight north and have a ship off the coast ready to get us there, since we can not tunnel (do not want to tunnel) in the direction of New Oceanus.  We would also need to somehow collapse the tunnel after us so no pursuers at our backs.




The problem with staying in one area is that if an alarm goes out, that's where everyone is going to head.  If draconids are rushing to the palace, they're probably not going to be paying as much attention and if we kill a squad or two, they will probably not be missed right away.  It is somewhat more difficult, but there have been no good ideas on getting away from the area as is.  Going over the wall is possible but has all kinds of problems I probably don't need to go into.  If I remember from Saturday correctly, Justice's elemental is only around for 15 seconds.  That's probably not enough to get us out.  I don't know how fast they dig etc.  If there's another good way out closer to the palace, I'm all for it.  Right now, though, I think going out the harbor is our best bet.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay, so it seems if we get a good plan we are goin in
> 
> For the invisibility idea: on saturday we had discussed using it there too, and I remeber there was talk of some bubble invisibility? that would have allowed us to see each other, but be invisible to everyone else.  We didn't use it since it was a small bubble and not for the entire ship.
> Even if we can not see each other, we just need to be invisible through the fall to the roof.  Once there we can go back to regular hiding.  I just like the invisibility stuff....
> ...




Saturday, when we looked up the rules for the elementals, we found out they would only last for like 3 rounds.  So, we could make it roughly 90 feet underground.
In order for the elementals to work, we would need a much higher level cleric with like Summon Monster 6 at least.

So, the elemental thing won't be an option.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> The problem with staying in one area is that if an alarm goes out, that's where everyone is going to head.  If draconids are rushing to the palace, they're probably not going to be paying as much attention and if we kill a squad or two, they will probably not be missed right away.  It is somewhat more difficult, but there have been no good ideas on getting away from the area as is.  Going over the wall is possible but has all kinds of problems I probably don't need to go into.  If I remember from Saturday correctly, Justice's elemental is only around for 15 seconds.  That's probably not enough to get us out.  I don't know how fast they dig etc.  If there's another good way out closer to the palace, I'm all for it.  Right now, though, I think going out the harbor is our best bet.



 I agree with you totally, Jeremiah.  And, yes, you're right-- Elemental is only around for a few seconds.  They tunnel at their base speed... and, even if they were around long enough to get us out, the actual tunnle would be TINY (I only have access to Summon Monster I).

So, I think that the harbor is the best option.  We know we can do it--may even get a second boat out of the deal?


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## Xath (May 5, 2004)

*The Elemental and Invisibility*

The spell you were looking for is Invisibility Sphere, and it suits our purposes very well.  Like Invisibility, it lasts 1 minute per caster level.  It effects all CREATURES within a 10 foot sphere at the time of casting.  Creatures who leave the sphere become visible, but creatures who enter the sphere after the spell has been cast remain visible.  Those creatures originally inside the sphere can see each other normally.

Also, for the elemental.  If need be, couldn't we get a higher level scroll?  Since Liz can cast the spell, she wouldn't even need to roll UMD to use it.

As far as feather fall and noise.  Anyone with a sufficient tumble should be able to avoid making noise while landing.  I can jump off of my swivel chair and barely make a sound.  (I know this from doing stunts, not because I like to jump off of chairs for fun)

And....ok


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> The spell you were looking for is Invisibility Sphere, and it suits our purposes very well.  Like Invisibility, it lasts 1 minute per caster level.  It effects all CREATURES within a 10 foot sphere at the time of casting.  Creatures who leave the sphere become visible, but creatures who enter the sphere after the spell has been cast remain visible.  Those creatures originally inside the sphere can see each other normally.




If I remember correctly, we couldn't use that spell during the boat scene because it makes everything inside the shpere invisible... ie, big hole in the ocean... maybe the spell is different than we thought it was, though... *shrugs*  Just what I remember hearing.



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Also, for the elemental.  If need be, couldn't we get a higher level scroll?  Since Liz can cast the spell, she wouldn't even need to roll UMD to use it.




That would be cool... 



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> As far as feather fall and noise.  Anyone with a sufficient tumble should be able to avoid making noise while landing.  I can jump off of my swivel chair and barely make a sound.  (I know this from doing stunts, not because I like to jump off of chairs for fun)




This may be, but Gertie the person has more ranks in tumble than the average person... in fact, Gertie  may be a 1st level Expert instead of a commoner...

However, I know Justice only has an okay tumble check... like 3 ranks... I just dropped a bottle of contact solution on the ground from approx 3 feet and it was LOUD...

There is very little in this adventure that we can just leave up to the dice rolls--especailly things that not everyone is good at.  Justice turns, smashes, and smites... she is capable of being sneaky--but  it takes a heck of a roll to make my tumble worth anything at all, especially in a circumstance like that.  Everything needs to be inhanced... the last thing we want is to jump down onto the palace roof and be caught instantly.  So, we need to find a way to make sure the jumping actually WORKS if, indeed, that is what we are going to do.

Lastly, do we know if the anti-magic stuff on the palace is just to prevent scrying or, the moment we enter the radius of that spell, is our invisibility shpere going to vanish along with all our other magical stuff?
Is it there to prevent scrying or is it like a back hole of magic that is going to prevent the usage of magical items, casting of spells, etc???


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

*actual spell*

*Invisibility Sphere*

*Illusion (Glamer)*

*Level*: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3 *Components*: V, S, M *Area*: 10-ft.-radius emanation around the creature or object touched 

This spell functions like invisibility, except that this spell confers invisibility upon all creatures within 10 feet of the recipient. The center of the effect is mobile with the recipient.

Those affected by this spell can see each other and themselves as if unaffected by the spell. Any affected creature moving out of the area becomes visible, but creatures moving into the area after the spell is cast do not become invisible. Affected creatures (other than the recipient) who attack negate the invisibility only for themselves. If the spell recipient attacks, the invisibility sphere ends.


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> For the featherfall- this would be cool, but do we know how far up the anti-magic shield goes? There is still the issue of the sound of the landing though.





			
				Queen Doppelpoppolis said:
			
		

> Lastly, do we know if the anti-magic stuff on the palace is just to prevent scrying or, the moment we enter the radius of that spell, is our invisibility shpere going to vanish along with all our other magical stuff?
> Is it there to prevent scrying or is it like a back hole of magic that is going to prevent the usage of magical items, casting of spells, etc???




The effect that prevents your scrying is probably not an anti-magic field, or shield, or something similar. Anti-magic fields would prevent the draconids from using their own magic, and unless they're raising the dead and transforming elves into twisted paradies of their former selves with mundane means, there has to be magic in the palace. More likely, it's just an effect that prevents scrying, of which there are many.


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> As for an exit plan: Why not stick to one area? Instead of trying to get all the way to the docks through bluffing or sneakery -more chance for mistake or problems on the way. Get to bottom of palace and tunnel our way out (through Justice's elemental). We could tunnel straight north and have a ship off the coast ready to get us there, since we can not tunnel (do not want to tunnel) in the direction of New Oceanus. We would also need to somehow collapse the tunnel after us so no pursuers at our backs.



If you plan on using an elemental, any tunneling you wanted to do would be cramped, and slow...I'm not even sure that Justice could summon one for a long enough time to get you out from underneath the city.  To make that plan really work, you'd need something more powerful than Summon Monster I or II, which is all she has access to.  

Also, straight north is roughly in the direction of New Oceanus.


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

The invisiblity sphere is what I was thinking of, thanks Gerti!!!  And the reason we did not use it was that we needed about 20 spheres to get the whole boat and then we would have had to cast invis. on the mast anyways.  If we cast this before teleporting on one person, not our main attackers (so Xath maybe) it could still work for a 10ft. radius around her.  On saturday we were trying to cast it on the ship as an object, which would have made it look liek there was a whole in the water.



_The player's book says: _TUMBLE (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot.  Check: You can land softly when you fall or tumble past opponents. You can also tumble to entertain an audience (as though using the Perform skill). The DCs for various tasks involving the Tumble skill are given on the table below.

So, a successful tumble check lessens the noise, and what about adding move silently checks?  Also what is the roof or the top surface we will be landing on? _--Looking for DM/duke to answer--_

I also think this is a better option then scaling the walls and hoping no one sees us or the rope, since that option is rolling for hide, move silently and climb.



The docks are a possibiliy for escape.  We just need a different strategy for getting out then for stealing a ship, unless we are taking sailors with us.  We only have two players with ranks in sailing (Xath and Archonus).  Or we could try the whole scry on one person and signal when we get ship, storm and such again.


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Queen Doppelpopolis said:
			
		

> -We need to stick together. Seperating may seem sneaky and devious and murderous but, I don't think that we can chance having one of us get caught... I'd rather see all of us caught and trying to escape together than one of us caught and the rest of the group trying to get them out.





			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Huge fan of no splitting up!!!! That is the whole reason we are going as a group. I would say though that in that light once in the palace, we should already have a walking/line order, who interrogates, who knocks people out, etc. That way when we hear foot steps there is an automatic reaction of bribers (Justice/Xath) staying in hallway while others hold back/flank. Bribers get them into position and then smash (Kareth/Arfin/Archonus) quickly and cleanly kill/knock out enemies. Then take bodies into rooms, it is already set in place who gets to interrogate, they do thier thing. We move on. Back-up will need to be posted outside or at door in case people go by in hallway or try to go to room.
> As Liz said there needs to be stories set-up beforehand, so there is no fumbling with why we are here or where we are going or any such stuff.



Both of these points are good, but splitting up within a single building is a very different affair than splitting up and going to various points all over town (which has generally been the problem, before).  Don't get so worried about staying together that you fail to include small-unit battle tactics in what you're planning.  As long as you guys all don't just wave and go to different rooms as soon as you get in the palace, splitting up may not be a terrible idea.  At some point, someone may need to circle around to get behind an enemy, etc.  

Nonetheless, both of you have put some thought into how to structure every encounter to your advantage--that's great.  Excellent work...just remember not to limit yourselves TOO much.  

But, moving on....


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> The spell you were looking for is Invisibility Sphere, and it suits our purposes very well. Like Invisibility, it lasts 1 minute per caster level. It effects all CREATURES within a 10 foot sphere at the time of casting. Creatures who leave the sphere become visible, but creatures who enter the sphere after the spell has been cast remain visible. Those creatures originally inside the sphere can see each other normally.



I'm going to comment about as much of the inviso comments as I possibly can, here.  Based on what I read (thanks for posting the spell, Kat!), the sphere would only affect you.  The reason that you didn't cast it on the ship was three-fold.  1) you could see the people in YOUR 10 foot sphere, but not anyone in the NEXT 10 foot sphere.  2) if you moved out of the sphere you started in AT ALL, you were visible. 3) Even if you could center the spell on the boat (which I decided you couldn't, since it was too big to be an 'object' in terms of the rules), it would still appear to be a boat-shaped hole in the ocean.  

If you cast it on one of you, and you all stay within 10 feet of each other, you could remain invisible until you leave the radius of the spell, without making a hole appear in the roof.  However, it requires you stay very close to each other, which is not always a good plan...a 10 foot radius puts you all in range for a single damage spell (like fireball, or even a dragon's breath weapon...).  Nonetheless, if they never know you're there, no harm done.    



			
				XATH said:
			
		

> Also, for the elemental. If need be, couldn't we get a higher level scroll? Since Liz can cast the spell, she wouldn't even need to roll UMD to use it.



I higher level caster casting Summon Monster I would be identical to Justice casting it.  Summon Monster I-IX are not the SAME spell, they are just similar spells--which means that even if someone had a better version, you'd still have to UMD (Use Magic Device) to get it to go.  Anyway, 15 seconds or 90 seconds...none of it is going to be enough to get you the hell out of Dodge.



			
				XATH said:
			
		

> As far as feather fall and noise. Anyone with a sufficient tumble should be able to avoid making noise while landing. I can jump off of my swivel chair and barely make a sound. (I know this from doing stunts, not because I like to jump off of chairs for fun)



I agree that this is possible.  Liz's comments re: the contact solution are also salient.  However, despite the fact that the falling bottle was loud to us, I doubt the people in the apartment below even heard us.  Tumble DC 15 lets you treat any fall as if it were 10 feet shorter, so that's (generally) what you're shooting for when you make tumble checks as you hit the roof.  They'll have a chance to listen if you miss it, but unless they have their ears to the roof, you'll at least have some time to move away from the landing spot before they can investigate.  In all--there are risks, but none that are so large so as to make this part a no-go, at least from my perspective.  

Moving on...


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

As always looking for group input on feelings with it, but unless we have a layout of the palace it may be better to stick together.  It would stink to have someone or part of the group get lost in the maze of hallways and rooms, though it may allow for more killing all around if we split into two main groups.


----------



## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So, a successful tumble check lessens the noise, and what about adding move silently checks? Also what is the roof or the top surface we will be landing on? _--Looking for DM/duke to answer--_





The roof is tile. The Duke has no idea what kind of tile it is. That kind of consideration is something that someone in his station never really had to worry about...




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> I also think this is a better option then scaling the walls and hoping no one sees us or the rope, since that option is rolling for hide, move silently and climb.




Regardless of whether you scale the walls IN, based on what I have seen so far, you're going to have to scale the walls OUT. So you're going to have to do this sometime, the question is just WHEN. (unless someone has developed an exit strategy that gets you from the palace to the docks, which is where (I think) you're planning on going. 





			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> The docks are a possibiliy for escape. We just need a different strategy for getting out then for stealing a ship, unless we are taking sailors with us. We only have two players with ranks in sailing (Xath and Archonus). Or we could try the whole scry on one person and signal when we get ship, storm and such again.




Defenders tend to alter the defenses to prevent attacks that they are familiar with. Thus, they'll probably be a great deal more prepared for this than they were last time, and so getting out of the harbor will be a great deal more difficult. Stealing a boat will not be impossible, but it will undoubtedly be more difficult than it was in the past.


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## AIM-54 (May 5, 2004)

I thought the plan was to use the folding boat, which would be significantly more manageable with only Archonus and Xath to work/guide others in working the boat.  Of course, that means those two need to survive...

Unless there's some blazing incompetence in harbor security, I don't think stealing another boat is a good plan at this point in time.


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> As always looking for group input on feelings with it, but unless we have a layout of the palace it may be better to stick together. It would stink to have someone or part of the group get lost in the maze of hallways and rooms, though it may allow for more killing all around if we split into two main groups.



This might help give you an idea of what you're dealing with.  Below is a top view of the palace, sketched from the memories of varying people who live there.  

The side view with the wall is VERY crudely drawn...the wall follows the pattern you can see on the top view (the black outline of the courtyard), not the straight line I drew in.


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## Xath (May 5, 2004)

So, we all stand on each others shoulders, put on a giant trenchcoat, and pretend to be Syvattagor.

In all seriousness though, Is there any way the duke could draw (or have someone draw) sketches of the parts of the palace that he does know?


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

DONE (with all of the stuff I need comment on from yesterday)!


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Regardless of whether you scale the walls IN, based on what I have seen so far, you're going to have to scale the walls OUT. So you're going to have to do this sometime, the question is just WHEN. (unless someone has developed an exit strategy that gets you from the palace to the docks, which is where (I think) you're planning on going.





Well, one way is better then having to do it twice, plus going down is much faster then climbing up- right? Rules again, but would going down be a use rope or climb check? It is hand positioning and wrapping it correctly around your leg, but you still have to hold on?... 




			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Defenders tend to alter the defenses to prevent attacks that they are familiar with. Thus, they'll probably be a great deal more prepared for this than they were last time, and so getting out of the harbor will be a great deal more difficult. Stealing a boat will not be impossible, but it






			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> will undoubtedly be more difficult than it was in the past.





It seems we are head to docks for exit route (I am taking this from posts by Jeramiah and Liz) We could always do an early changing of the guards to gain access to a ship.


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

Plan so far?:
a) use teleport, tumble, sphere of invis. to roof of Duke's old observatory
b) interrogate/kill as we go_-need answer to:Who is mistress? and What is being done to elves?_
c) get to bottom of palace leave /or/ once we have info, we go back to roof and scale down
d) go towards docks
e) use folding boat to get away

As with the last planning stuff, just trying to lay it out... I am not saying this is finalized or what is actually happening, but going through the posts what I found.


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, one way is better then having to do it twice, plus going down is much faster then climbing up- right? Rules again, but would going down be a use rope or climb check? It is hand positioning and wrapping it correctly around your leg, but you still have to hold on?...
> 
> It seems we are head to docks for exit route (I am taking this from posts by Jeramiah and Liz) We could always do an early changing of the guards to gain access to a ship.



Going down can be slightly faster than going up.  Up, you're limited to 1/3 your movement.  Going down will be as fast as you want to let gravity take you.  However, you still have to get up on top of the wall to get down off of it... so either way there's going to be some up and down.  

As Jeremiah already said, if you're going to use the docks to escape, you need to try something very different than what you did before.  They'd have to be total morons to leave the same vulnerabilities in the system that cost them a ship, before.  Furthermore, even if you managed to get the change the watch thing to work, you still don't have nearly enough people to get it to work...


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## Xath (May 5, 2004)

A scroll of teleport is 1125gp.  1 scroll made by randall would get everyone but 1 person out.  As a 5th level spell, it would take a UMD check of DC25 to use the scroll.  So, we could use 2 scrolls.  That would get everyone out.  Both Xath and Archonis have Use Magic Device.


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

To group/duke: So watch tower C gives us close proximity to the palace, and a straight shot to the ground outside the palace? Are the dragons sitting on the four watch towers?  The observatory is the top/top level of windows I am assuming? 

Last game there was mention of Wyverns coming and going from on top of the palace....?...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I agree that this is possible.  Liz's comments re: the contact solution are also salient.  However, despite the fact that the falling bottle was loud to us, I doubt the people in the apartment below even heard us.  Tumble DC 15 lets you treat any fall as if it were 10 feet shorter, so that's (generally) what you're shooting for when you make tumble checks as you hit the roof.  They'll have a chance to listen if you miss it, but unless they have their ears to the roof, you'll at least have some time to move away from the landing spot before they can investigate.  In all--there are risks, but none that are so large so as to make this part a no-go, at least from my perspective.
> 
> Moving on...




How many ranks does everyone have in tumble?

I have 4... but, that negated by my armor.  As such, I need to roll a 15.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

I believe Archon has 1 rank in Use Magic Device.  Unless he rolls a 20, he can't get a 25.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Yes, I know... just being full of myself after the weekend's success...

Folding boat is the only safe option... as safe as it's going to get, anyway.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> A scroll of teleport is 1125gp.  1 scroll made by randall would get everyone but 1 person out.  As a 5th level spell, it would take a UMD check of DC25 to use the scroll.  So, we could use 2 scrolls.  That would get everyone out.  Both Xath and Archonis have Use Magic Device.



 How many ranks do you have, Xath?


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> To group/duke: So watch tower C gives us close proximity to the palace, and a straight shot to the ground outside the palace? Are the dragons sitting on the four watch towers?  The observatory is the top/top level of windows I am assuming?
> 
> Last game there was mention of Wyverns coming and going from on top of the palace....?...



 Wyverns cross paths in the air over the place nearly constantly.  There are at least 500 in the city, and at any given time, at least 200 are in flight.  While they may not be perched on the palace, they're flying over it, frequently.  

You have no idea where the Dragons are perched, since you can't scry the palace, and you can't get close enough on airborne mounts without attracting the attention of the aforementioned wyverns.  

The red roof that sticks up in the center of the palace is the obervatory--it's small.  The top set of windows is the third floor of the palace...the Duke's personal chambers.

None of the tertiary watch towers are that close to the palace--the side view is very deceptive.  Look at the top view for reference.


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I believe Archon has 1 rank in Use Magic Device. Unless he rolls a 20, he can't get a 25.



I know it is not much, but he also would get to add his cha. modifier -if we end up trying this...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> To group/duke: So watch tower C gives us close proximity to the palace, and a straight shot to the ground outside the palace? Are the dragons sitting on the four watch towers?  The observatory is the top/top level of windows I am assuming?
> 
> Last game there was mention of Wyverns coming and going from on top of the palace....?...



 Dragons... the 4 white dragons hang out on top of the palace.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I know it is not much, but he also would get to add his cha. modifier -if we end up trying this...



His cha. bonus is 0... and so, even if I were to cast Eagle's Splendor on him, he would need to roll a natural 20 in order to make the check.


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

*A Demand from the Universe*

Before we start on Saturday, I want to have a list of all of the equipment that you're going to have with you, as well as a list of everything that you'll be leaving at New Oceanus.  

There will be absolutely NO "I would have remembered to bring that..." arguments during the game.  If it's not on a list that I have in my hand, you guys don't have it.  I want every sword, knife, boot, bracer, ten foot pole and inch of rope (and anything else you're carrying on your person) accounted for.  I won't make you keep track of encumberence, but if you lose someone, I want to be able to mark off exactly what you lost, as well as make sure that you're only using resources that you actually have access to.

Although I shudder to say this, you may want to look in the Arms and Equipment Guide to see if there is any mundane equipment that can help you, since you're trying to preserve monetary resources for other things....e.g. things to make you easier to hide, quieter, etc.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Wyverns cross paths in the air over the place nearly constantly.  There are at least 500 in the city, and at any given time, at least 200 are in flight.  While they may not be perched on the palace, they're flying over it, frequently.
> 
> You have no idea where the Dragons are perched, since you can't scry the palace, and you can't get close enough on airborne mounts without attracting the attention of the aforementioned wyverns.
> 
> ...



 I don't know if trying to come in above the palace is such a good idea...

If we teleport in, the miss chance increases because we can't scry the palace... it would be relatively easy for one of us to end up outside the sphere of invisibility and... BAM food for the flying-beasties...

Methinks we may need to reassess our entry plans.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Before we start on Saturday, I want to have a list of all of the equipment that you're going to have with you, as well as a list of everything that you'll be leaving at New Oceanus.
> 
> There will be absolutely NO "I would have remembered to bring that..." arguments during the game.  If it's not on a list that I have in my hand, you guys don't have it.  I want every sword, knife, boot, bracer, ten foot pole and inch of rope (and anything else you're carrying on your person) accounted for.  I won't make you keep track of encumberence, but if you lose someone, I want to be able to mark off exactly what you lost, as well as make sure that you're only using resources that you actually have access to.
> 
> Although I shudder to say this, you may want to look in the Arms and Equipment Guide to see if there is any mundane equipment that can help you, since you're trying to preserve monetary resources for other things....e.g. things to make you easier to hide, quieter, etc.




Important Item #1...

Sock filled with silver coins... I'm bringing one.


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## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Before we start on Saturday, I want to have a list of all of the equipment that you're going to have with you, as well as a list of everything that you'll be leaving at New Oceanus.



Along that same line: We have two bags of holdings (right? one with Xath?) who gets these and is there anything we are putting in them before hand?


----------



## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> His cha. bonus is 0... and so, even if I were to cast Eagle's Splendor on him, he would need to roll a natural 20 in order to make the check.



didn't know- just wanted make sure that was added in.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

*Connection!!*

I was looking over Justice's Prophecy of the Stone Oracle this afternoon while hammering out everything her and Preston are going to talk about...

And there it was, in the middle of the page... a reference to a mistress... could it be THE mistress, I don't know... but-- it's a starting point...

So, for your enjoyment, I now bring to you... Justice's Prophecy... (again)


*The Prophecy of the Stone Oracle aka Justice's Prophecy*

Darkness falls on Traveler’s children,
Once and again as the line of Kings falters:
The fallen shall rise to consume their heirs, 
As falcons are hounded from their roosts.  

Your Father’s victories shall become as ashes!

The fallen return on serpent’s wings,
The unquiet dead stir from their Prison Tombs.
Man’s folly will shadow the world in flame, 
Evil will rise to reclaim birth’s right.

Death will not bar midnight’s Imperator!

*True blood stirs, hidden by betrayal,
A single chance for Forest King’s last daughter:
Win the throne or face Covenant fulfilled,
A deal in blood, rising with Darkness’ Mistress.*

The Hand of Death grasps the dying light!

Daughter of Sun and Shadow, awake!
Salvation lives within your blade,
And in the heroes found in westward lands,
Who fight the dead and damned, drowning the spark of War. 

Redemption begins in the city of sacrifice!  

Look beyond peace’s waters, and face your shadows,
Gathering to conquer and kill.
Darkness reigns as liege once, and again
Should the sword of Kings fall to Goddess’ son!

Ready, Children, for now is your truest test!

Meanwhile,
Silently, the ancient awake from timeless dreams,
To watch, to listen, to plan.
They return for vengeance, and bring with them the end of all you know.​


----------



## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

On saturday the guesses for the mistress of Oceanus were Tiamat and barbara striesand horned-witch woman.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

*Meanings?*

Well, prophecies tend to be a little confusing... but, there are parts of this one that are pretty clear...

True blood stirs, hidden by betrayal,
A single chance for Forest King’s last daughter:
Win the throne or face Covenant fulfilled,
A deal in blood, rising with Darkness’ Mistress.​
These are my thoughts on the meanings of this little chunk...

Here-- we've got a reference to the "dragon blood" at Kaereth or Miagee may call it... it's what makes Jaine the rightful heir to the throne... betrayal, the naughty stuff the king did to win his way to the throne.
Forest King's Last daughter = Jaine

The covenant, I would assume is the deal that the king has with the dragon people...

And, the Mistress... whoever this evil witch is... will die a bloody death... and it will be good.

Not exactly sure what the "rising with" means... any thoughts from anyone else?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Yep-- I know who the guesses are... but, at the same time, she--if the she in the prophecy IS the Mistress in Oceanus--must have a deeper connection to the whole thing than we thought.


----------



## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

looking back over the prophesy, as well.... 
*Heroes found in western lands--* Whatever happend to Mr. Miagi's people? Are we even going to worry about them now?  I know we had said awhile ago we should try to get them here... did someone try?  I know it was on the message boards long, long ago but did someone get anything from Kareth about Mr. Miagi just leaving??
*Darkness' Mistress--* Tiamat was never seen dead so far as I know -have to check all the notes though, and she was often referred to as Mistress of Shadow.  so it could be her 'rise' either back into power or back to life or just freed from prison.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> looking back over the prophesy, as well....
> *Heroes found in western lands--* Whatever happend to Mr. Miagi's people? Are we even going to worry about them now?  I know we had said awhile ago we should try to get them here... did someone try?  I know it was on the message boards long, long ago but did someone get anything from Kareth about Mr. Miagi just leaving??
> *Darkness' Mistress--* Tiamat was never seen dead so far as I know -have to check all the notes though, and she was often referred to as Mistress of Shadow.  so it could be her 'rise' either back into power or back to life or just freed from prison.



 I've suggested a couple of times sending out a call for his people that are at the monastary (sp?)... I think they need to come to Hyrwl.

Mr. Miagee, himself, has gone to Kaereth's hometown... where the actual Dragon Emperor was/is...

Kaereth and Justice have talked about it quite a bit... Mr. Miagee left because he went to One Oak, I believe, to get/talk to the Dragon Emperor...

All stuff that I plan on putting in the breakfast club email tomorrow... and elaborating on when Jeremiah and I are so freakin' busy!

LAST DAY OF SCHOOL! YAY!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

However, I'm sure that Jeremiah has an even better grasp on what is going on there... my understanding is still a little iffy... but, he doesn't exactly have words for all of it... so, it all moves slowly...  I love the big dumb green guy


----------



## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I've suggested a couple of times sending out a call for his people that are at the monastary (sp?)... I think they need to come to Hyrwl.
> 
> Mr. Miagee, himself, has gone to Kaereth's hometown... where the actual Dragon Emperor was/is...
> 
> ...



Yes, you did suggest the message-- And I can try to write something up, but L'aurel's name would mean little to them.  It should come from Justice to Mr.Maigi's daughter (Tara).  Justice being second in command to Mr. Miagi in the eyes of these people.  
And I know you do not have time to write a full report up today or possibly in the next few days, but thank you for at least letting us know that someone had talked to Kareth.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Yes, you did suggest the message-- And I can try to write something up, but L'aurel's name would mean little to them.  It should come from Justice to Mr.Maigi's daughter (Tara).  Justice being second in command to Mr. Miagi in the eyes of these people.
> And I know you do not have time to write a full report up today or possibly in the next few days, but thank you for at least letting us know that someone had talked to Kareth.



 I'll start working on a letter tonight/tomorrow... I may even write it while I'm sitting in my stupid class that I have to go to right now... but, after this, DONE!   REJOICE!

But, yes, I'll send off a little note to Tara, ASAP... that would probably happen in the first week, realistically...

I'm off to stupid class!


----------



## AIM-54 (May 5, 2004)

I wouldn't say I have a great grasp on it and much has probably been lost since the commencement of final projects etc.

Anyway,  Kennon did say that someone could talk to Mr. Miagi before he left.  Kaereth talked to him briefly (all his conversations are brief talking AND thinking make his head hurt   ).  He relayed some stuff to Justice, but there's another email I have to respond to, previously lost in the aforementioned chaos.  Hopefully that will shed some more light on that.

Finally, it should be remembered that most of Miagi's people are peasants and such, so there are not so many ninjas.  I'm not sure if we got their population over here how many we could train etc, either.  Of course, moving them across the sea is a whole other challenge.


----------



## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I wouldn't say I have a great grasp on it and much has probably been lost since the commencement of final projects etc.
> 
> Anyway, Kennon did say that someone could talk to Mr. Miagi before he left. Kaereth talked to him briefly (all his conversations are brief talking AND thinking make his head hurt  ). He relayed some stuff to Justice, but there's another email I have to respond to, previously lost in the aforementioned chaos. Hopefully that will shed some more light on that.
> 
> Finally, it should be remembered that most of Miagi's people are peasants and such, so there are not so many ninjas. I'm not sure if we got their population over here how many we could train etc, either. Of course, moving them across the sea is a whole other challenge.



For L'Aurel it is less that they are warriors and more the monastary was not happy about keeping them in the first place, the king is moving his forces in raids all over, we can protect them here (hopefully!).  Though those few who can fight will be a welcome addition.  For getting them to New Oceanus, there is always the portal stones... but this could be just as dangerous...

As for talking directly to Mr. Miagi-- he only speaks draconic right?  So, for a conversation that leaves Justice or Xath, but L'aurel would love to listen in and add anything in the common toungue to be translated


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## AIM-54 (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> As for talking directly to Mr. Miagi-- he only speaks draconic right?  So, for a conversation that leaves Justice or Xath, but L'aurel would love to listen in and add anything in the common toungue to be translated




If by draconic you mean the pseudo-Japanese language, yes.  I have no idea if he speaks actual draconic or not.  Kaereth barely speaks common himself


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> If by draconic you mean the pseudo-Japanese language, yes.  I have no idea if he speaks actual draconic or not.  Kaereth barely speaks common himself



 Pseudo-Japanese and Draconic are distinct from one another.  Not the same language, or even closely related.  

Also, you guys DID catch up to Lord Miagi before he got too far into the forest, so if anybody wants to ask our favorite Ronin any questions, just message or e-mail (either here or at home or both), and I'll get to them as soon as I can.  

Since you're going to be talking to the man himself, there may be better ways of sending a message to his people than writing a note--One Oak and the Monastery aren't that far from each other.  I wouldn't waste time writing a letter.


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## AIM-54 (May 5, 2004)

Kennon, about the palace wall situation:  Is the only wall we have to navigate the black wall as seen in your picture?  Or is there and outer wall around that?

Personally, I have no problems with us taking a few grappling hooks (2-3), hurling them over the wall and getting in and out that way.  Heck, there's no concertina wire, how bad can it be?   Although, once we get up/over the wall...is there a walkway there or is it just wall?  After which we then have to head up to the main building and get up on it?


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## Xath (May 5, 2004)

My modifier for UMD is +12, so I'd have to roll a 13 or up to use a scroll of teleport.


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Kennon, about the palace wall situation: Is the only wall we have to navigate the black wall as seen in your picture? Or is there and outer wall around that?
> 
> Personally, I have no problems with us taking a few grappling hooks (2-3), hurling them over the wall and getting in and out that way. Heck, there's no concertina wire, how bad can it be?  Although, once we get up/over the wall...is there a walkway there or is it just wall? After which we then have to head up to the main building and get up on it?



There is just one wall around the palace.  The "outer wall" is the wall around the city.  it's the black outline in the topview.  

There is a walkway on the wall, but you don't know how or if it is patrolled, because of the scrying block.  Remember that the wall and palace never actually touch...which means you're either going to have to get creative with Medieval zip-lines, or you're going to have to scale the wall, climb down the wall, and then climb up the walls of the palace, to whatever height you choose, all without being noticed.


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## Xath (May 5, 2004)

*The Prophecy of the Stone Oracle aka Justice's Prophecy*

Darkness falls on Traveler’s children,
Once and again as the line of Kings falters:
The fallen shall rise to consume their heirs, 
As falcons are hounded from their roosts.  

Your Father’s victories shall become as ashes!

The fallen return on serpent’s wings,  (suggesting that they've been here before)
The unquiet dead stir from their Prison Tombs. (Tiamat's tomb was her prison)
Man’s folly will shadow the world in flame, 
Evil will rise to reclaim birth’s right.

Death will not bar midnight’s Imperator!

*True blood stirs, hidden by betrayal,
A single chance for Forest King’s last daughter: (L'Aurel?)Win the throne or face Covenant fulfilled, 
A deal in blood, rising with Darkness’ Mistress.* (I think Darkness' Mistress is Tiamat)

The Hand of Death grasps the dying light!

Daughter of Sun and Shadow, awake! (That would be Justice)
Salvation lives within your blade,
And in the heroes found in westward lands,
Who fight the dead and damned, drowning the spark of War. (Hmm, it seems to me that we're more kindling the spark of war, rather than drowning it)

Redemption begins in the city of sacrifice!  

Look beyond peace’s waters, and face your shadows,
Gathering to conquer and kill.
Darkness reigns as liege once, and again
Should the sword of Kings fall to Goddess’ son! (That would be Mordred the Black?)

Ready, Children, for now is your truest test!

Meanwhile,
Silently, the ancient awake from timeless dreams,
To watch, to listen, to plan.
They return for vengeance, and bring with them the end of all you know.​


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> True blood stirs, hidden by betrayal,
> A single chance for Forest King’s last daughter:
> Win the throne or face Covenant fulfilled,
> A deal in blood, rising with Darkness’ Mistress.
> The Hand of Death grasps the dying light!




The Forest King is Oberon... there are two women that he considered his "daughters"-- one was Karis Araesi and the other Andere.

Karis Araesi married Maelwys-- Jaine is a direct descendant of Maelwyn.

Andere, also considered one of Oberon's "daughters," is the Bluestar's woman... However, the relationship between Oberon and Andere happened MUCH earlier than the relationship with Karis... 

As such, I would say that the bloodline of Karis and Maelwyn is probably what is referenced here making Jaine the Forest King's Last Daughter...

I don't know this for sure... but, that's what'd I would assume.

If that seems confusing, it probably is... but, that's what it works out as...

Kennon, is it possible to get a family tree from Jaine?


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## Xath (May 5, 2004)

*Hrm...*

Is there a way to legitimately get into the palace?  I mean, once we get inside, I'm all for the hacking and slashing, but we'd save time, by getting in legit, and then killing anything that moves...and some things that don't.

There's always the ye olde prisoner routine.  

Or we could walk up to them and say "Your Mom!" and then they'd have to let us in.  I mean, come on.

I mean, we want to hack and slash, but we also want to avoid as many PKs as humanly possible.  Or any other racely possible.


"LAST DAY OF SCHOOL! YAY!"  <----- You suck.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 5, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Is there a way to legitimately get into the palace?  I mean, once we get inside, I'm all for the hacking and slashing, but we'd save time, by getting in legit, and then killing anything that moves...and some things that don't.
> 
> There's always the ye olde prisoner routine.
> 
> ...



 One of the posts on the Inflitration! thread was kinda funny when it comes to this particular aspect of our journey...

We cast the super bluff check spell... just walk up... say we're there to fix a leaky pipe... and waltz in...

*sighs*  if only it were that easy..


----------



## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

*Not sure but-*

Darkness falls on Traveler’s children, (this is us)
Once and again as the line of Kings falters:
The fallen shall rise to consume their heirs, 
As falcons are hounded from their roosts. (Oceanus, Arutha's forge)

Your Father’s victories shall become as ashes! (the apecto was the one to show Mordred's true form, and helped in his downfall and death)

The fallen return on serpent’s wings, (Mordred, the son of Tiamat and a shadow dragon)
The unquiet dead stir from their Prison Tombs. (Tiamat's tomb was her prison)
Man’s folly will shadow the world in flame, 
Evil will rise to reclaim birth’s right. (Mordred was the heir to the Sundered throne what is now part of the falcon kingdom)

Death will not bar midnight’s Imperator!

*True blood stirs, hidden by betrayal, (Jaine)
A single chance for Forest King’s last daughter: (Jaine)
Win the throne or face Covenant fulfilled, 
A deal in blood, rising with Darkness’ Mistress.* (Tiamat)

The Hand of Death grasps the dying light!

Daughter of Sun and Shadow, awake! 
Salvation lives within your blade, 
And in the heroes found in westward lands, (Justice got this in the east)
Who fight the dead and damned, drowning the spark of War. 

Redemption begins in the city of sacrifice! (Thanesport)

Look beyond peace’s waters, and face your shadows,
Gathering to conquer and kill.
Darkness reigns as liege once, and again
Should the sword of Kings fall to Goddess’ son! (Mordred the Black)

Ready, Children, for now is your truest test! (Us again)

Meanwhile,
Silently, the ancient awake from timeless dreams,
To watch, to listen, to plan.
They return for vengeance, and bring with them the end of all you know.


----------



## Laurel (May 5, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Is there a way to legitimately get into the palace? I mean, once we get inside, I'm all for the hacking and slashing, but we'd save time, by getting in legit, and then killing anything that moves...and some things that don't.
> 
> There's always the ye olde prisoner routine.
> 
> ...



The only things going in are Syvatagor and prisoners.  Nothing else has gone in or out since.  So we could be a miniture Syvatagor, or prisoners.  As prisoners though we can't carry an arsonal of weapons, and if we put them in the bag of holding we better have that really secure and hidden away!  And I don't think they are stupid enough to believe syvatagor would just shrink himself.
Though just cause we have not seen anything else go in does not mean nothing else is allowed in...


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Kennon, is it possible to get a family tree from Jaine?



Yes...but I'm not going to draw it out.  I'll answer specific questions, but drawing a family tree is not even fun.    She can diagram one, but I'm not going to!


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## Xath (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The only things going in are Syvatagor and prisoners.  Nothing else has gone in or out since.  So we could be a miniture Syvatagor, or prisoners.  As prisoners though we can't carry an arsonal of weapons, and if we put them in the bag of holding we better have that really secure and hidden away!  And I don't think they are stupid enough to believe syvatagor would just shrink himself.
> Though just cause we have not seen anything else go in does not mean nothing else is allowed in...





Ah, but the great thing about Alter Self is that anything that doesn't fit with the disguise is absorbed into your form.  So a bag of holding with all of the weapons...


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## The_Universe (May 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The only things going in are Syvatagor and prisoners.  Nothing else has gone in or out since.  So we could be a miniture Syvatagor, or prisoners.  As prisoners though we can't carry an arsonal of weapons, and if we put them in the bag of holding we better have that really secure and hidden away!  And I don't think they are stupid enough to believe syvatagor would just shrink himself.
> Though just cause we have not seen anything else go in does not mean nothing else is allowed in...



 Very true!  

Also, the City of Sacrifice is Thanesport.  That's where the Apecto died to send the Bluestar to the north when he was eternally locked there.


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## Laurel (May 6, 2004)

*Jaine's Family ???*

I know I am off, but so far as I can piece the family together...... brain no work, but not getting how Archonus is in the Araesi house of nobles?  But I do now get the silver mask for family Destro to show treachery years and years ago... or maybe Arhconus just liked the mask for his birthmark....​


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## Archon (May 6, 2004)

*Diffusion*

Archon can hand out all his sneakery boosting stuff to those less sneaky. that way we're all "pretty good at sneaking instead of a couple of us rocking at it while Arfin clanks down the hall.
mik aka "Monkey Junkey"


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## The_Universe (May 6, 2004)

*above-posted family tree!*

This is a little off, but a good effort! 

For one, Archon doesn't have any direct relation to the the house of Araesi. His family is Areandor. While technically Andere and Karis Araesi have some relation, they are not precisely sisters. Karis was born of the union between a human man, and an elven woman who, through a magical ceremony I don't want to go into, was also a dryad. her fey blood is what made her "Oberon's daughter" even though in reality she was Corran Araesi's daughter. Corran Araesi went on to become the Baron Destro, Lord of Caer Cruarch...but his real name was Araesi. 

Andere, on the other hand, was LITERALLY Oberon's daughter, and was in fact a hamadryad (celtic myth--long explanation--don't ask). She was also approximately 3000 years older than Karis...

It's all very hard to explain...if you want clarification, don't be afraid to ask.

Also, the silver mask thing is a symbol of the Talon Justices, as well as of the house of Destro.  Corran Araesi kept the secret society known as the "Talons" alive throughout his lifetime...that organization eventually became the Talons as you know them today.


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## Archon (May 6, 2004)

*the whole shabang*

for posterity, our little "Arky" likes to go by "Archon" but his full name/title looks something like this....
_Talon Justice Archonus of House Arendorr, Firstborn of Aramus and Jessara_
unless the universe thinks differently that is.
mik aka "Fornicate and Flee"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 6, 2004)

*The More You Know...*

Okay... well, I was writting all of this out in story form... but, I've stopped because you probably don't care about all of the Justice's backstory stuff... at least, not right now..

And so, I bring to you...

THE THINGS I LEARNED FROM PRESTON...

-Interesting tid-bit... Fairweather is the name give to bastard children born at sea.

-He, Fr. Dorn, and a woman were exiled on the Isle of Mouring for poking too deep into the church.

-The things they had been digging for in the church, they found on the Isle.

-The Isle of Mourning was rich with information, prophecy, and evil... heores past spent many years on the Isle--all the time looking to the evil of the North... never thinking to look to the West.

Preston said: "propecy upon prophecy, written on the walls of tombs, hidden in books... Some were written by the tombs builders...others, scrawled in the strange hand of the Guardians.  I am sure that some are true prophecy...even now, we see much of the events predicted there coming true in one form, or another.  But many--and there is no way to tell how many--are little more than the ravings of madmen.
There are predictions of a fall of Kings, but what form it would take was hardly specific... A fall of Kings...and the freedom of the Bluestar...
and so all of this time, we have had our attentions turned to the North
when darkness truly gathered in the west...
Our forefathers were not stupid...someone foresaw what would happen, here...and they tried to prepare... they thought they could destroy all but 2 of the blades....the blade in the North, and the Liegeblade...but as long as 2 survived, the magic could not die.  Something was seeking them, even as we sought our past all those years ago...something, and I know not what."

-Two of the liege blades are currently on the Isle of Mourning... or at least, we can assume they are.  Protected by "The Guardians"

Preston said: I know where 2 of them [the blades] lie... atop the tombs of the heroes of the last age...in great mausoleums twisted by their strange guardians upon the Isle...whatever remains of the dark past on that isle has used itself to twist the magics and the minds of the tombkeepers...  The Guardians are not just protectors of the blades (although one is not a blade, exactly...but rather a bow), but also the tombs themselves...and the island.  I think that they may once have been priests, and builders...but whatever Shadow remained on that island after Mordred was killed has been enough to twist their minds and bodies over the past millenium."

-Little is known about the prediction about the freedom of the Bluestar... the only thing that was known for sure was that "victory lay in the hands of a hidden queen, and the blood of heroes of ages past."

-After finally fleeing the Isle, Preston wandered around... searching for Justice's mother... searching for Justice... the granddaughter he never got to meet... and, as he wandered, he stumbled across a 14 year old Jaine.  It was just during the sucession of Taine... she was being chased--Filmore was trying to protect her, in WAY over his head.

Preston said: "Tain is too smart to allow his men to be so easily marked.  I have no doubt that they were his, or at least his mother's....maybe even men under control of the old King's Huntsman--Nightgrove....Whoever they were, they didn't have much of a chance to talk."

-So, Jaine, Preston, and Filmore ran, hid... and they did it well.  And they've made it this far...


Now, it's up to us to fulfill the prohecies...


----------



## The_Universe (May 6, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> for posterity, our little "Arky" likes to go by "Archon" but his full name/title looks something like this....
> _Talon Justice Archonus of House Arendorr, Firstborn of Aramus and Jessara_
> unless the universe thinks differently that is.
> mik aka "Fornicate and Flee"



 For the purposes of poetic flow, I'd probably make the order "Archonus of House Arendorr, Talon Justice, Firstborn of Aramus and Jessara."  If he ever became the head of House Arendorr (if his parents die, or something), he would be, "Archonus, Viscount Arendorr, Talon Justice, Firstborn of Aramus and Jessara" (his family is titled, but not prominent landowners, like the Duke).


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## Laurel (May 6, 2004)

*Oberon's bow?... maybe?... who knows?...*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Preston said: I know where 2 of them [the blades] lie... atop the tombs of the heroes of the last age...in great mausoleums twisted by their strange guardians upon the Isle...whatever remains of the dark past on that isle has used itself to twist the magics and the minds of the tombkeepers... The Guardians are not just protectors of the blades (although one is not a blade, exactly...but rather a bow), but also the tombs themselves...and the island. I think that they may once have been priests, and builders...but whatever Shadow remained on that island after Mordred was killed has been enough to twist their minds and bodies over the past millenium."



The blade that is actually a bow is the one Farathier knew about through the book he took at the monastary.  The one Barbara Striesand witch woman and nightgrove were trying to look for.  -oh so long ago-


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The blade that is actually a bow is the one Farathier knew about through the book he took at the monastary.  The one Barbara Striesand witch woman and nightgrove were trying to look for.  -oh so long ago-





Witch woman and Nightgrove were at the Monastery together...

Witch woman and John Darkson were together when we lost Link's swords. 

When were they looking for the bow? At the Monastery? or after that?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 6, 2004)

*Nugget of Information...*

Horned Witch woman has a real name!

Ahriana Blackadder

.. I never knew.


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## The_Universe (May 6, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> For the purposes of poetic flow, I'd probably make the order "Archonus of House Arendorr, Talon Justice, Firstborn of Aramus and Jessara."  If he ever became the head of House Arendorr (if his parents die, or something), he would be, "Archonus, Viscount Arendorr, Talon Justice, Firstborn of Aramus and Jessara" (his family is titled, but not prominent landowners, like the Duke).



 As a further example, Kat would now be, "the Lady L'Aurel of House Woodshadow, Lady Hyrwl, Firstborn of Andara and (uh....) Dad"

You get the idea.  Liz's comments don't need anything from me, and neither do kat's!


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## Xath (May 6, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Horned Witch woman has a real name!
> 
> Ahriana Blackadder
> 
> .. I never knew.





Sheesh, another snake.


----------



## The_Universe (May 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Sheesh, another snake.



 It's almost like there was some kind of common theme...could it be...INTENTIONAL?


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## Laurel (May 6, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Witch woman and Nightgrove were at the Monastery together...
> Witch woman and John Darkson were together when we lost Link's swords.
> When were they looking for the bow? At the Monastery? or after that?



When we talked to Farathier after the attack on the monastary he told us the king's men were doing the wrong thing there (reason he came with us) and they were looking for a book to some blade or relic.  That night, we settled the ninja's in, Arhconus tried to head of Jaine's execution in Thanesport, Justice and the rest of us healed or helped to heal others.  Farathier in the middle of all this went through the library books, and found a book somehow linking/stating the isle of mouring to a magical blade/bow there (Oberon's bow?)  He has been carrying around reading the book for these past months and only when Farathier mentioned Nightgrove to Father Dorn did the whole Isle of Mourning/Oberon's bow/he can not say much/and warnign of not to go there stuff come-out the day after the funeral.


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## Laurel (May 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Sheesh, another snake.



Hey, at least the female population is now represented  ....wait a minute...


----------



## AIM-54 (May 6, 2004)

There is only one Blackadder and his name is Edmund.  His adventures through the ages are quite hilarious.  Ahh, Rowan Atkinson, how you never cease to amuse...


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## Laurel (May 6, 2004)

*what happened to miss no-name?*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> As a further example, Kat would now be, "the Lady L'Aurel of House Woodshadow, Lady Hyrwl, Firstborn of Andara and (uh....) Dad"[\QUOTE]
> 
> For right now:
> The Lady L'Aurel of the House Woodshadow, Lady Hyrwl, Firstborn of Andara and Michael.


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## The_Universe (May 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The_Universe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Laurel (May 6, 2004)

For right now, then:
The Lady L'Aurel of the House Woodshadow, Baroness of Hyrwl, Firstborn of Andara and Michael.

okay all done.


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## Xath (May 6, 2004)

This is what we need to overcome for our infiltration.

[URL=http://]http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=24[/URL]


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> This is what we need to overcome for our infiltration.
> 
> [URL=http://]http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=24[/URL]





This link does not work...


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## Laurel (May 6, 2004)

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=24

copy and past it in as a new address- hehehehehe-- it is funny


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 6, 2004)

Still doesn't work... hmmm... something weird is going on here.


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## Archon (May 7, 2004)

*why do i hate my spleen?*

so is tim the only one who can't make it?
mik aka "three-chix"


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## The_Universe (May 7, 2004)

Yeah.  Tim is the only one who's out this weekend.


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## Archon (May 7, 2004)

*"look, i found all these swords..."*

Archon "Taking the Pain" for all yous.
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=6
mik aka "Lop"


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## Xath (May 7, 2004)

Bwah bwah bwah!

Soon all of you will be hooked on the Order of the Stick! Then you will have to come to Gencon to see the Order of the Stick seminar.


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## Xath (May 7, 2004)

Alright, now the friends series finale is over, so we can get back to posting.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 7, 2004)

This spell may be helpful with the information gathering...

Prying Eyes, Greater
Divination

Level: Sor/Wiz 8

This spell functions like prying eyes, except that the eyes can see all things as they actually are, just as if they had true seeing with a range of 120 feet. Thus, they can navigate darkened areas at full normal speed. Also, a greater prying eye’s maximum Spot modifier is +25 instead of +15.

True seeing rizocks!


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

*hey, there's always Joey next season*

so.... we are going into Oceanus...
Have we ruled out the fall from the sky plan?  
Are we trying the hide/sneak over walls? 
Or just bluff/prisoners in the front gate?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> so.... we are going into Oceanus...
> Have we ruled out the fall from the sky plan?
> Are we trying the hide/sneak over walls?
> Or just bluff/prisoners in the front gate?





At this point... I don't know if anyone really KNOWS what we're doing..

The entrance strat. is what I think we're really having trouble with... the folding boat will make a do-able exit... but, we need to work on how exactly to get in..

Anyone have any specific ideas as to how to make it work?


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

*Domino effect*

random: so I was going through some of the Order fo the Stick issues, when Trevor (works in the cube across form me) walked by.  He heard me laugh and being the nosey person he is, starting reading the strip as well.  Luckily he is a gamer and so started to laughed too.  So Gerti feel proud you have gotten at least two people hooked on it


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

*For the plan*

I would almost say why not go as prisoners summoned?  Xath as always can be morphed into something else, thus holding all our stuff till we are inside.  The only one that may be aproblem is Arfin, but it shouldn't be that hard to think a dwarf might have been in the city.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 7, 2004)

Are prisoners allowed into the palace?  I thought it was only Syvattagor...


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Are prisoners allowed into the palace? I thought it was only Syvattagor...



Nope- Syvattagor AND prisoners are some allowed in, but the only ones that come back out are suddenly loyal to the draconoids. what ever is being done to the prisoners is being done inside the palace. Some prisoners are brought by regular guards who just leave them at the door, while the door guards just open the doors and let them in. That's all I think we know or have seen.


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## The_Universe (May 7, 2004)

For the record, the magic paratrooper plan was probably a little more likely to succeed than bluffing your way in.  Once you're in, there'll be a chance for lots of bluffing, but without knowing the procedures for prisoner transfer, etc., there's a lot of chances for screw up.  I still think you need to work on getting out...there's a big army here, and it's not like little league soccer, where everyone just rushes toward the ball (ball=disturbance).


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Nope- Syvattagor AND prisoners are some allowed in, but the only ones that come back out are suddenly loyal to the draconoids. what ever is being done to the prisoners is being done inside the palace. Some prisoners are brought by regular guards who just leave them at the door, while the door guards just open the doors and let them in. That's all I think we know or have seen.



 Okie dokie...thought it was only Syvattagor...


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## Xath (May 7, 2004)

Some Mundane Items that might help us in our infiltration:

Animal Call: A small device that sounds like a specific type of animal/bird.  If we get seperated and need help, we can use these to find each other. (20gp)

Ascender/Slider:  It attaches to a rope and gives a +1 to climbing up.  You can also use it to slide down a rope.  Think Charlie's Angels when they're climbing up to the helicopter.  So with this you can go down a rope at falling speed.  Useful. (20gp)

Glass Cutter: Cuts a circle into glass without breaking or shattering. Anywhere from a 3-16 inch radius. (2gp)

Housebreaker Harness: Designed specifically for 2nd floor breaking and entering.  It grants a +1 to climb and move silently. (20gp)

Elven Rope: Stronger than normal rope.  Grants a +3 to use rope checks. 

Silent Shoes: Grant a +1 to move silently checks.

Sprayer: Sprays a mist.  This sounds kind of stupid at first, but think of what you could put into one of these things:
              Poison Ivy/Oak Oils:  Inhalation of these oils causes immediate respiratory problems and possible death in 75% of the population.
              Abrin: Only 2mg inhaled causes immediate death.
              Richin: Only 2mg inhaled causes immediate death.
              And many many many more.  Trust me.  Plants are fun.  Not to mention the 9 inhaled poisons and 15 contact poisons in Arms and Equipment.

Bodysuit, Black: +2 hide bonus in dark areas.  It is negated if you wear other equipment on top of it.

Longbreath: An alchemial substance which increases the amount of time you can hold your breath.  If we use the sprayer, above, none of us want to be breathing that stuff in.

Just some relatively inexpensive that could help us.  After all, even a +1 mod could make a difference.


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

Entrance- use the whole paratrooper idea we had been working on

Exit-  I purpose- use ropes and suck to climb out of palace and outer wall.  Then we let Justice and Xath who speak draconic pretent to be guards, do the whole prisoner transfer thing and Arfin is just a small kid waiting to be eaten thing till we get to docks.  Then once on an outrim area of docks get into folding boat, and leave quickly and quietly.

If everything goes fubar plan -?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 7, 2004)

This is all awesome, Gertie!

I really like the sprayer idea... we should all have one of those!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Entrance- use the whole paratrooper idea we had been working on
> 
> Exit-  I purpose- use ropes and suck to climb out of palace and outer wall.  Then we let Justice and Xath who speak draconic pretent to be guards, do the whole prisoner transfer thing and Arfin is just a small kid waiting to be eaten thing till we get to docks.  Then once on an outrim area of docks get into folding boat, and leave quickly and quietly.
> 
> If everything goes fubar plan -?



 Even with huge bluff checks, not sure that this plan will work.  It just doesn't make sense.  They haven't let prisoners out that way before... the people that we are talking to may believe us...
But there are things flying all over the place and people WATCHING for all angles... and, our bluff check isn't going to get the message across to the intelligent things that are swooping overhead...
It looks very suspicious...

But, those are just my initial thoughts... we a little hammering out, things could be fixed... 

That could have worked while trying to get in... but, I don't know if it's a plausible thing for getting it..
It will work wonderfully for bluffing while in the city, though...

I tend to think that utilizing the folding boat to get out would be the easiest plan... but, we also have giant flying things that we can use... make them invisible, make the people on top of the invisible... and just make a few trips to get everybody to safety outside of the city...

Thane magically appears in my square when I call him... 

So, yeah... my thoughts for the moment... more later, I'm sure.


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## Xath (May 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Arfin is just a small kid waiting to be eaten thing.





I hope your disguise check is a heck of alot better than mine.


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## Xath (May 7, 2004)

Remember for using the boat to escape the city.  The entire harbour has a sandbar across it, except for one area in the center which is predominantly occupied by the Bone ship.  We won't have mages to move earth for us this time, and they may be guarding the trench we already made.


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Remember for using the boat to escape the city. The entire harbour has a sandbar across it, except for one area in the center which is predominantly occupied by the Bone ship. We won't have mages to move earth for us this time, and they may be guarding the trench we already made.



The folding boat should be shallow enough to go over the sandbar.  Well, before I say that I should ask, how deep is the water over the sandbar??


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> That could have worked while trying to get in... but, I don't know if it's a plausible thing for getting it..
> It will work wonderfully for bluffing while in the city, though...



Well, they are letting those prisoners now loyal to them out yes, but there is still lots of chance and possible mishap.  I was thinking more use the rope/hide stuff to get out of the palace and then once on the street use the prisoner transfer or just be a group of guards to get to harbor.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Thane magically appears in my square when I call him...



That would get some out


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## The_Universe (May 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The folding boat should be shallow enough to go over the sandbar.  Well, before I say that I should ask, how deep is the water over the sandbar??



 deep enough to let a small boat over it.  You'll be fine.


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

So we have a folding boat that can go over the sandbar, and we have two sailors with us   um... is that enough, with thier guidance, to man the small boat?


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## Xath (May 7, 2004)

If by sailor, you mean I have 1 rank in Profession Sail, which counters my -1 wisdom.


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> If by sailor, you mean I have 1 rank in Profession Sail, which counters my -1 wisdom.



okay so we need some sailors too.... hmmm... I was hoping we would not need to bring anyone else along....


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## The_Universe (May 7, 2004)

Note:  bringing others along is a BAD idea.  Every extra person is someone who can be caught, captured, and tell the Draconids where you are and what you are trying to do.  You can use people to help you prepare in New Oceanus, but you want to keep the operation IN Oceanus to yourselves.  

Just my two cents.


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## Laurel (May 7, 2004)

So sailing out even by little craft may not be possible... :-(


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## The_Universe (May 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So sailing out even by little craft may not be possible... :-(



 If it's just a rowboat, you don't need to be terribly skillfull.  If it's a sailing ship, you do.


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## The_Universe (May 8, 2004)

Godo luck tomorrow!  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 8, 2004)

So, here's the deal...

I think the best idea is to:

1.) Paratrooper in with the magic (and the pickles...)

2.) Fight our way through the palace, killing everything in sight.

3.) Exit...
  Option 1: Justice calls Thane to her... we have a scroll of Reduce... everyone, save Justice, gets shrunk down 50%, we cast Sphere of Invisibility on all of us... we fly, fast like the wind, out of the city and out of harm's way... 
--also, this can work without the Reduce... Justice just has to take trips in      order to do it... will only be able to carry 2 people with me at a time.

  Option 2: We utilize the folding boat to row out of the city via the harbor.


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## Laurel (May 9, 2004)

*More on family ties*

Here's what I think is group knowledge of the family tree's for the point of our character's knowledge... again correct me if I am wrong of missing something...


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## Laurel (May 9, 2004)

PS- Yeah for staying alive


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## The_Universe (May 9, 2004)

*Staying Aliiiive! (insert bee gees here)*

Congratulations on your valorous survival!  

You've learned a little, but not a lot, and you need to learn a lot more before you can really effect anything the invaders are doing, unless you think you can meet them in open battle as they move out of Oceanus, whenever that will be.  

As far as I know, the goal for next week is to infiltrate the city watch, beat up on some draconids, and then try to free some elves while you're at it.  In order to do that, you'll either need to have a way to avoid the wall entirely, or a way to bring the wall down, get the elves across it, and then get far enough away (or hidden) that the draconids won't/can't pursue.  Alternatively, you can try to hide them in the city somewhere, and hope that they don't get recaptured.  I'd like to know (in general) what the plan is ASAP, so that I can be prepared to run it!

Nonetheless, keep in mind that this is a war, and sneaking out a few elves (even a few hundred elves) is unlikely to stunt the war effort on the part of the enemy.  As you pick targets, keep that in mind.  You've also learned that Atur and Arutha's Forge have been invaded already, and they're almost certainly in a situation similar to Oceanus'.  

By no means am I asking that you ignore the elves in the City Watch, but I do want you to put that mission in context of a larger war--tainting elves is just a way for them to get a few more cannon fodder, not the sole goal of invading Oceanus.  

Lastly, remember that just like your army has several goals (Make Jaine the Queen, Rule the entire land, Get the blades, defeat the King) that are all related, but not necessarily achieveable all at once, so too might they.  Not every city they attack will have a blade in it...because they also want to rule the world.  At some level, this is just simple Conquest...in many ways, that's more terrible than whatever Tain will do if he gets all of the blades.


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## The_Universe (May 9, 2004)

*Hero Points*

These guidelines are up in the house rules section of the website, as well.  

*Hero Points*

Heroic high fantasy requires that the heroes be willing to take risks, and that they have a reasonable chance of success when they do.  To help, we have Hero Points.  Went spent selfishly, hero points disappear.  When spent in a manner that is truly heroic, or at a dramatically apropriate time, after the hero point is spent, it can be returned to the character.  If spent in a way that is both heroic AND at the dramatically apropriate time, the character may have the point returned, and earn another.  In short, these are a cross between D20 Modern's Action Points and the Force Points of D6 Star Wars.    Characters recieve 1 Hero Point per level. 

_Heroic Surge_: When spent normally, a character rolls 1D10 for every hero point spent, and adds that number to every roll until the following initiative.  When spent in this manner, the player must declare that he or she is spending the hero point(s) after rolling initiative, but before actions are declared.  As such, a player may NOT (for example) roll an attack, see that the roll was low, and THEN declare "I'm spending a hero point!"  This type of expenditure may be considered heroic, dramatically apropriate, or both, depending on the situation in which it is spent. 

_Heroic Dodge_: A character may also choose to spend a hero point to avoid being hit in combat.  Representing extraordinary effort in avoiding being hit, when spent in this manner, the player rolls 1D20, plus 1D10 for each action point spent.  That number is added to the total armor, dexterity, dodge, and deflection bonus of the character (total armor class minus 10), giving the characters armor class for that round.  Thus, a character with a total AC of 17 could choose to spend an action point.  If he or she rolls a 12 on 1D20, and a 4 on 1D10, the total bonus for the character is added to 16, rather than 10, for the remainder of the round.  This would increase the AC of 17 to an AC of 23.  This type of expenditure is NEVER considered heroic or dramatically apropriate because of its selfish nature, and results in the immediate and permanent loss of the hero point.  However, this expenditure can be declared after a character has been "hit."  If the attack fails to beat the new AC, the "hit" was in fact a "miss." 

_Heroic Speed_: A character may also spend a hero point to move with incredible speed, granting the character a single extra action at the end of the round.  This is essentially the same as rolling a natural 20 on initiative, except that it does not guarantee that you go first, only that you get an extra action at the end of the round.  This must be declared before rolling initiative for the round, and may be considered heroic, dramatically apropriate, or both, depending on the circumstanced under which it is spent.       

_Heroic Reserve_: A character may also spend a Hero Point to reveal a heroic reserve.  When spent in this manner, the character rolls 1D10 and adds it to his or her current hit point total.  The number may not exceed the character's maximum hit points.  This can be declared at any time, but the character must be conscious.  Spending a hero point in this way is not heroic, nor is it to be considered dramatically apropriate, because of its selfish nature.  Doing so results in the immediate and permanent loss of the hero point.

_Heroic Power:_ A character may spend a hero point to increase the save DC of a spell or special ability.  When spent in this manner, the player rolls 1D20 to determine the base power level of the spell (as with heroic dodge), replacing the normal 10 +.  Then, the character may roll 1D10 per hero point spent, and add that to the save DC.  All the dice must be rolled at once (thus, if one rolls poorly on the D20, one could not declare extra hero points to cover it).  This use must be declared before the spell is cast, and may be considered heroic, dramatically apropriate, or both, depending on the situation of their use.   

Other types of hero point expenditure may be allowed at the GM's discretion.


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## The_Universe (May 10, 2004)

*Monday-Wednesday*

I'm going to be out of the office this week from monday-wednesday, and so I won't be my usual 10-post self during the day.  I'll try to keep up with you turkeys at night, but more than likely, I'll be out of loop from 8:30-5:30.  Just thought I'd let you know.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 10, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I'm going to be out of the office this week from monday-wednesday, and so I won't be my usual 10-post self during the day.  I'll try to keep up with you turkeys at night, but more than likely, I'll be out of loop from 8:30-5:30.  Just thought I'd let you know.



 Weha!  I'm here, though... because I'm DONE with school for the summer!


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## The_Universe (May 10, 2004)

As it turns out, it's fairly easy to steal the hotel's intarweb, so I am.  So, I won't be fast about the question answering, but I will do it.  

But, alas, now my break is almost done.  Back to the crushing boredom.


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## Laurel (May 10, 2004)

*red = evil enemy/king tain/draconic army*

Are we letting them gather the blades and we are just going to try and steal one? Below is what I think we have pieced together of the blades: 

1) Aldersblade high in the hands of lost hero- Link Woodshadow's short sword- with them 

2) Mansblade in the Lichlord's Keep- with the Bluestar

3) Dwarvenblade in the lost stone halls- Possibly Dwarven Sylvannus, which were lost to the forces of the Bluestar almost 40 years ago, possibly somewhere else.

4) Sendersblade in Lady Shadow's tomb- Tiamat is Lady Shadow –Isle of Mourning

5) Sendersblade at the builder's pyre- Quarion is the builder -?

6) Forestblade in my daughter's crypt (Oberon’s Bow)- Amastatian tomb- Isle of Mourning

7) Saintsblade at the priest's secret rest- Apecto’s tomb- ?

8) Drakesblade in the hands of Kings!- ?

9) Deathsblade 'neath the ruined city- ?

10) Earthsblade with the lichlord's blood- with our Archonus, his family or Archonus Bluestar 

11) Moonsblade in the Builder's Glory- In Quarion's Wall. I'd be hesitant to remove that one since it may be what powers the magic to keep the Bluestar in the North.


12) Aldersblade True in the city of Forsaken Blood- Greyclaw, they have now

13) Leigeblade at the side of rulers, Leigeblade stolen from the sea, Leigeblade as Serpent's salvation, Leigeblade's capture is the key- Tain’s sword taken by Darkson/Draconics in first adventure


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## Laurel (May 10, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> 5) Sendersblade at the builder's pyre- Quarion is the builder -?



Quarion's Rest is a city/town on Pyrdein just above Caer Melyn... that would be too logical, but a thought


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## Laurel (May 10, 2004)

*Feel free to add/comment/change/question the below*

What we know about them::
They are from the west, want total control, and need all the blades
The king is the big bad evil
There are 13 blades
There are 13 shadow master/mistresses
Ahriana Blackadder is shadow mistress in Oceanus
They have 3 of the blades
They now control Oceanus, Arutha’s Forge
Attack planned/happened on Atur
They _may be_ moving a big force south along coast to Avalack then back to Khaz Modan
They may also be moving a small force through Alder’s forest (that’s the forest we & the portal stone are in)
The falcon army was moving to Silvanas for attack on Bluestar (did he attack/are they just sitting/are they forming an alliance/?)
They can use the portal stones


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## Laurel (May 10, 2004)

*Back to the ninja's*

So we sent a letter with Mr. Miagi first few days... did any word or ninja people start arriving by week 5?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 10, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So we sent a letter with Mr. Miagi first few days... did any word or ninja people start arriving by week 5?



 One Oak is not that far from where we left the ninja camp... 

We had an opportunity to speak with Lord Miagee right away after the whole Oceanus thing... and so, we either sent a letter with him... or just sent a message along with him... and he can go visit his daughter/his people... and hopefully come to us with the camp, the true Dragon Emperor, and himself...

When they arrive, I have no idea...


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## The_Universe (May 10, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So we sent a letter with Mr. Miagi first few days... did any word or ninja people start arriving by week 5?



 Nope.


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## Xath (May 10, 2004)

Hey, Xath had a chat with Arthur Calwys last night.  I think he could really help with the guerilla tactics on Oceanus if we can trust him far enough.  And maybe we can teach him some manners.

Anyway, he's got a reasonably good idea of what's going on in Oceanus and Hyrule.  He's very resourceful and good at getting information.  I didn't tell him anything he didn't already know, and I didn't give him any information on our plan.  I thought I should talk to you guys first, to see how far we should trust him.


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## The_Universe (May 10, 2004)

*Getting in to Oceanus*

Just checking--are you still planning a foray into Oceanus?  

...because if you're not, I kinda need to know.  Furthermore, I want to make sure that you're still planning on heading to the City Watch--is that right?

This, just like the foray into the palace, requires some planning--and I'd like it if we could have a plan that took less than  2 hours during the session to get started.  Not every plan needs to be a colaborative effort, although that helps.  When we start playing next week, I'd like to actually start playing.

Lastly, as you plan your entrance, you may actually want to go over or through the main wall at Oceanus.  If a group of some of the more powerful characters can't breech the thing, there's no way a bunch of grutns are going to be able to...you gusy were very cautious last week, but you missed some of your operational goals by being so.  Second, remember that they'll probably be ready this time for whatever worked last time...so either have a counter trap ready, or get in a different way.

Just my two cents.  So far, you've been mosquitos to the invasion force, and you need to at least be wasps.  

Good luck ladies and gentlemen!


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## Xath (May 10, 2004)

Oh, we'll be wasps.  We'll be a hoard of wasps.


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## Archon (May 11, 2004)

*i'm a liar.*

i like poodles.


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## The_Universe (May 11, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Oh, we'll be wasps.  We'll be a hoard of wasps.



 Could you please elaborate, for the purposes of planning?


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## Xath (May 11, 2004)

Joyous, so we've decided to infiltrate a place that's right around the corner from the palace.  And we want to free some elves.  An admirable goal, but how the heck are we going to do it?  I don't really know.  I kind of figured I'd get some ideas as I was typing this, and it's not really happening.

So, let's look at this like an actor looks at a new scene. 
1. Bios
2. Given Circumstances
3. Bits
4. Objective/Action/Obstacle
5. Blocking

Explanations? Read Below.

1. Bios- Character Bios are everything that we know about the characters involved in the scene/situation.  Usually you write a bio for the character you are portraying.  So I would write Xath's Bio for this situation, showing Xath's strengths, weaknesses, and available resources.  We then compare bios and see what we have to work with.
2. Given Circumstances- Given circumstances are traditionally anything the script says about a given situation.  In our case, the given circumstances are everything that we know about the City Watch and what is going on with the city.  This also includes any information we have on people who are not us, aka. NPCs.
3. Bits- In the actor's world, Bits are the breakdown of the script into parts with a certain theme or mood.  In our case, our bits are each goal we hope to accomplish while on this forey to Oceanus, and in some circumstances, what we hope to accomplish in the long run.
4. Objective/Action/Obstacle- An actor would look at the Bits and establish what the objective/action/and obstacle(s) are for each.  So, we look at every Goal, see what our objectives are for each goal, what actions we would use to accomplish them, and what obstacles stand in our way.
5. Blocking- Once we determine a feasable course of action, we then block it, placing steps in order and determining where/when we will move.  This is also the stage for contingency planning.

So...I had my THET220 final today.  And I have to make a prompt book for my scene using these steps.  So I thought, if I have to suffer, you should join me.  I dunno, at least it's a 5 step program.  Something to start from.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Going into Oceanus is, as of right now, the only plan that will involve some killing.  There are lots of things that need doing and conversations that need having, however; for those that enjoy roll playing more than they like role playing--those things and conversations make game-play boring.

Right now, attempting to say, go get one of the spirit blades, would be really cool.  But, at the current point, we are in a VERY vulnerable position.  Bringing one of the spirit blades to us makes us an even more desirable target for the Dragon Army.  
Until we have a safer base of operations or a very specific and defensable place to hide the blade, it doesn't seem like a good idea to try to go get one.

However, it has been brought to my attention, that a couple days travel would bring up to the home of the Black Ocrs... granted, these orcs are evil, they would probably- if negotiated with- fight with us.
Justice isn't very keen on the idea... however, our army is lacking BIG TIME.
If we decided that we could chance talking with them, she would volunteer to attempt negotians.


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## Laurel (May 11, 2004)

*Just some thoughts*




			
				Xath said:
			
		

> So, let's look at this like an actor looks at a new scene.






			
				Xath said:
			
		

> 1. Bios
> 2. Given Circumstances
> 3. Bits
> 4. Objective/Action/Obstacle
> 5. Blocking.





Hey it beats a twelve step program....
2. The city watch is pretty centrally located in the City of Oceanus, and it is one block from the palace, but we have been able to scry on it, thus getting a little information. There are elves, draconoids, and Syvatagor, all going in and out of the watch compound. Some elves go to the palace from there, but most don't come out at all.

Another possible target is the army barracks -this seems to be only draconoids going in and out, possibly just a normal barracks, mess hall type place. Good place for mass killing of enemies and doing damage to their numbers. –this would be for damaging the army not saving elves, though.

3. Disrupt their daily routine/ make it harder for them to go forward with all ready planned attacks/ save some elves/ kill lots of evil things/ stay alive 

4. a- We take one of the cannons and drag it within range of the west wall of Oceanus. Fire at wall, see how much damage we can do –this is mostly diversionary, but hey if we can do more damage here too why not-

b- Then a different attack force (us) poof into the city/go over the South wall. Using deception and dark alley slitting of throats make way to destination place (City Watch?). Using deception and/or brute force we get into destination (City Watch?). If we find elves that can be saved, we could have teleport for them specifically or as mentioned many times, we try to hide them until the big battle is over?

c- As for exits- We can use reduce and invisible Thane, fly out… We can get to water and use the folding boat…. We could run to the part wall that was damaged by cannon use deception, running fast, fighting behind us into forest…. lots of other things I will never come up with 

5. What is this here for?! We don’t need any stinky fall back plan :\


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## Laurel (May 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> However, it has been brought to my attention, that a couple days travel would bring up to the home of the Black Ocrs... granted, these orcs are evil, they would probably- if negotiated with- fight with us.  Justice isn't very keen on the idea... however, our army is lacking BIG TIME.
> If we decided that we could chance talking with them, she would volunteer to attempt negotians.



Not sure about this- L'aurel feels no one is completely evil or completely good... everyone has some chance of redemption or sin, so she would be fine with us chatting trying to get them on our side, but this does start to put more evilly types at our backs and makes it harder for after the war if the war lasts more then one year and such... 

But, hey, For all we know we may get up there and find out they are already working for the draconic bad people, so we just get to kill them anyways  
So defiantly an option!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Not sure about this- L'aurel feels no one is completely evil or completely good... everyone has some chance of redemption or sin, so she would be fine with us chatting trying to get them on our side, but this does start to put more evilly types at our backs and makes it harder for after the war if the war lasts more then one year and such...
> 
> But, hey, For all we know we may get up there and find out they are already working for the draconic bad people, so we just get to kill them anyways
> So defiantly an option!



 Justice's main thought is that we are horribly and incredibly undermanned.  

We've already opened our arms, conditionally, to the wizards... maybe we should do it for the Black Orcs, too...

They may be evil... but, at least they are taking over cities and eatting elf babies by the dozens... *shrugs*

It's another option for Saturday's session..


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> 4. a- We take one of the cannons and drag it within range of the west wall of Oceanus. Fire at wall, see how much damage we can do –this is mostly diversionary, but hey if we can do more damage here too why not-[/color]
> 
> b- Then a different attack force (us) poof into the city/go over the South wall. Using deception and dark alley slitting of throats make way to destination place (City Watch?). Using deception and/or brute force we get into destination (City Watch?). If we find elves that can be saved, we could have teleport for them specifically or as mentioned many times, we try to hide them until the big battle is over?




This trip is definately going to require non-poofing ways of getting INTO the city... and probably out of.
The enmies are not stupid... they know that we are teleporting and they have magical means that are far greater than ours.  As such, we've got to find a non-magical way to get into the city.

To try to teleport again is simply asking for trouble.

Realistically, we should probably just try to make it across the wall.  *gets out her grappling hook*


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Not sure about this- L'aurel feels no one is completely evil or completely good... everyone has some chance of redemption or sin, so she would be fine with us chatting trying to get them on our side, but this does start to put more evilly types at our backs and makes it harder for after the war if the war lasts more then one year and such...
> 
> But, hey, For all we know we may get up there and find out they are already working for the draconic bad people, so we just get to kill them anyways
> So defiantly an option!



 But, we should have a talk with the NPCs about it before any decision is made... I'm sure that Jaine, Dorn, Preston, and all the others will have good input here...


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## Laurel (May 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Justice's main thought is that we are horribly and incredibly undermanned.
> 
> We've already opened our arms, conditionally, to the wizards... maybe we should do it for the Black Orcs, too...
> 
> ...



We definatly are undermanned for a full frontal assault army.
Already said what L'aurel thought... Kat's thoughts though- are they ever good/neutral aligned?  With the bluemages at least we could plan on getting some good with the bad.  If we can say the same with the Blacks Orcs then cool otherwise not so keen on having them as allies (if we only get evil)

But like you said in put from group and PC's would be invaluable... and it is still a possiblitly (as I agreed to before)


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## Laurel (May 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> This trip is definately going to require non-poofing ways of getting INTO the city... and probably out of.
> The enmies are not stupid... they know that we are teleporting and they have magical means that are far greater than ours. As such, we've got to find a non-magical way to get into the city.
> 
> To try to teleport again is simply asking for trouble.
> ...



Universe warned us about that last week, but I had to put it in as an option just in case someone wanted it....
Depending on when we play this weekend the clanky, monkey like dwarf may not be with us (he could be manning the cannon?)


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## Laurel (May 11, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Hey, Xath had a chat with Arthur Calwys last night. I think he could really help with the guerilla tactics on Oceanus if we can trust him far enough. And maybe we can teach him some manners.
> 
> Anyway, he's got a reasonably good idea of what's going on in Oceanus and Hyrule. He's very resourceful and good at getting information. I didn't tell him anything he didn't already know, and I didn't give him any information on our plan. I thought I should talk to you guys first, to see how far we should trust him.



Teaching him manners I leave to Xath and Archonus, and seeing how Xath did not kill him, I say Xath and Arhconus to chat with him some more (and whoever else- stick dorn on him maybe?).  Also, try to find out about Bluestar's forces, and hey why not use what we can get....

Also, GOOD LUCK ON EXAMS GERTI!


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## Xath (May 11, 2004)

Also, from what I can tell, Arthur Calwys may have True Seeing with Permanancy.  This could be used to ferret out all of the draconids in the city.


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## Laurel (May 11, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Also, from what I can tell, Arthur Calwys may have True Seeing with Permanancy. This could be used to ferret out all of the draconids in the city.



This may have been what you meant by 'city,' but what about just the draconids in New Oceanus/Hywrl.... if this is what you meant definitely a good idea to try out... though any questioning of these things L'aurel would like to be there for... just in case.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We definatly are undermanned for a full frontal assault army.
> Already said what L'aurel thought... Kat's thoughts though- are they ever good/neutral aligned?  With the bluemages at least we could plan on getting some good with the bad.  If we can say the same with the Blacks Orcs then cool otherwise not so keen on having them as allies (if we only get evil)
> 
> But like you said in put from group and PC's would be invaluable... and it is still a possiblitly (as I agreed to before)



 Kennon just said that "they're evil"-- so, I don't know if that means that they are always evil or if they are mostly evil...

*shrugs*  Have to talk to him about it later...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Also, from what I can tell, Arthur Calwys may have True Seeing with Permanancy.  This could be used to ferret out all of the draconids in the city.



 Just to clarify... what do you mean when you say "the city," Gertie?


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## Xath (May 11, 2004)

I meant New Oceanus/Hyrule.


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## Xath (May 11, 2004)

Hmm.  I looked up permanancy and it doesn't apply to True Seeing.  True Seeing itself only lasts for 1min/level.  So he either cast it while I wasn't looking, or he's got an item with it.  Tricky bum...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Hmm.  I looked up permanancy and it doesn't apply to True Seeing.  True Seeing itself only lasts for 1min/level.  So he either cast it while I wasn't looking, or he's got an item with it.  Tricky bum...



 We do have access to True Seeing through Randall, though.

I suggested it last weekend for our little trip into the city... 

We could utilize it to purge Hyrwl of the draconids.


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## Laurel (May 11, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Hmm. I looked up permanancy and it doesn't apply to True Seeing. True Seeing itself only lasts for 1min/level. So he either cast it while I wasn't looking, or he's got an item with it. Tricky bum...



Dare I ask, but what were you were pretending to be, or did he just say well you are as beutiful as you look....?... 

As for applying it to New Oceanus, defiantly whoever has it... but it will cost us.  And what do we do with the info?  This was the problem last time.  Do we just kill them for being spies, try to interrogate them, or just keep a watch on them?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Dare I ask, but what were you were pretending to be, or did he just say well you are as beutiful as you look....?...
> 
> As for applying it to New Oceanus, defiantly whoever has it... but it will cost us.  And what do we do with the info?  This was the problem last time.  Do we just kill them for being spies, try to interrogate them, or just keep a watch on them?



 Yes, it will cost us... I posted the stats for the spell on Thursday or Friday of next week... I'll have to dig them up..

However, we can just have it cast on one of us and then, go rounding up people if we need it.

I'd say, we don't just kill them... that is a little... uhh... bad.  But, we should lock them up in individual cells and question them before we put them to death... need a trial and stuff like that first.  Don't want to condemn them without due process!


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## Xath (May 11, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Dare I ask, but what were you were pretending to be, or did he just say well you are as beutiful as you look....?...




Um....let's just say that Xath got a lesson in humility and a much needed reality check.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> This spell may be helpful with the information gathering...
> 
> Prying Eyes, Greater
> Divination
> ...



 Here's the spell with True Seeing...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Here's the spell with True Seeing...



 I think Randall can cast that spell... It is 8th level... so, maybe he can't... but, we can hope.


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## AIM-54 (May 11, 2004)

Lotsa stuff going on, so let me chime in a bit.

First, I agree with Liz, I think we need to do this conventionally...over the wall, from the sea, however.  The magic stuff is easy, but expensive and we know they have far more magical assets than we do.  Switching up entry and exit methods means they have a less easy time of preparing for us.  

Second, the cannon idea is bad.  Very bad.  All that would do is lose us the cannon.  Their aerial assets would simply swoop down and eliminate it.  One cannon is also going to take a long time to take down that wall.  For now, they serve us better to defend the town.  They will also be good for any mass assault, should it come to that.

Third, someone mentioned the barracks (Gertie, I think).  Considering how much trouble we're having coming up with a way to get the elves out, the barracks might be a better target.  We get in, smash stuff, kill bad guys and get out.

Fourth, Liz mentioned lotsa info gathering still to be done.  We can do some of that too, especially if we don't have a four hour hiatus this week     I think it's important that we take every opportunity to hit the bad guys when we can (ie every session).

Fifth, we are still hideously undermanned, but I believe Jaine mentioned that she will be on that, so something is being done to work on that.

Sixth, we have this special forces squad kicking around.  We should probably utilize it, unless we're having them concentrate on training the next squad...?

I think that's it for now.


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## Archon (May 11, 2004)

*tunnels = fun*

we should have as many elementals as we can summon digging tunnels day and night. after awhile it'll add up. the tunnel doesn't have to stretch all the way to New Oceanus, it just needs to stretch from a deserted wharehouse in Oceanus, under no-man's land, past the wall and into the woodline emerging in some seculded grove. 
yeah, those are my two cents. i like tunnels cause their not magical, they last, they'll be cheap and they make a good exit/entrance plan. 
mik aka "when all else fails"


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## The_Universe (May 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Justice's main thought is that we are horribly and incredibly undermanned.
> 
> We've already opened our arms, conditionally, to the wizards... maybe we should do it for the Black Orcs, too...



These guys are the worst of the bad--their skin has been magically darkened--scarred to reflect their crimes againt their tribes, and to the kingdom at large. They are savage, cruel, and evil--and they've been banished to one of the more inhospitable places in all of the kingdom--the southern hills. 

With the possible exception fo a few wrongfully convicted orcs (whom you cannot even be sure exist), these guys are unredeemable. However, that doesn't mean that they won't fight for or with you, if the reward is high enough.


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## The_Universe (May 11, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> First, I agree with Liz, I think we need to do this conventionally...over the wall, from the sea, however. The magic stuff is easy, but expensive and we know they have far more magical assets than we do. Switching up entry and exit methods means they have a less easy time of preparing for us.



On this same train of thought--how many days between the palace raid and the next raid into the city?  The more time you give them, the readier they're going to be.  If one of your goals is to keep the enemy off-balance, you haven't achieved anything close, yet.  The severity (and frequency) of operations will have to increase if you want to buy yourselves some time.  

Also, I tend to agree that using a singel cannon to try to knock down the wall is probably just going to cost you a cannon.  Such a thing might make a good distraction, but it is by no means going to work as a primary plan.    



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Third, someone mentioned the barracks (Gertie, I think). Considering how much trouble we're having coming up with a way to get the elves out, the barracks might be a better target. We get in, smash stuff, kill bad guys and get out.



I am not sure whether this would me more or less successful than whatever you already had planned--but if you're going to pursue it instead, I NEED to know.  If you spring it on me on saturday, we just won't be able to play, because I do NOT have the barracks ready for play.  Just a little meta-gaming, there...


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## The_Universe (May 11, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> we should have as many elementals as we can summon digging tunnels day and night. after awhile it'll add up. the tunnel doesn't have to stretch all the way to New Oceanus, it just needs to stretch from a deserted wharehouse in Oceanus, under no-man's land, past the wall and into the woodline emerging in some seculded grove.
> yeah, those are my two cents. i like tunnels cause their not magical, they last, they'll be cheap and they make a good exit/entrance plan.
> mik aka "when all else fails"



 Remember (as Gertie has already mentioned) that New Oceanus and Hyrwl are more than likely full of spies--how secret will your tunnel be?  Also, make sure that there are spellcasters that can make such a thing--do you have access to them, or do you need to "rent" them from the nearby dwarven kingdom?  As always, I can help with that, but I want you guys to be reasonably proactive, here.  

Lastly, I REALLY need to know what you're doing, what your goal is, and when you're doing it--time is of the essence, and i need to be able to frame what the bad guys have been doing in the time that you have been idle.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

The best plan for this weekend is to attempt to get over the gates with little to no magical assistance...

The city watch would be a good place to go, however, we don't have a place to put any elves that we would get out.  At this point, as has been discussed in the past, we do not have the means to try to liberate the elves.  We have no way to actually get them out of Oceanus without just setting them up for slaughter.

So, in the city, if we are going to shake some things up, the barracks should be our main objective for Saturday.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

*Spies*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Remember (as Gertie has already mentioned) that New Oceanus and Hyrwl are more than likely full of spies--how secret will your tunnel be?  Also, make sure that there are spellcasters that can make such a thing--do you have access to them, or do you need to "rent" them from the nearby dwarven kingdom?  As always, I can help with that, but I want you guys to be reasonably proactive, here.




This is why we've been having the true seeing discussion... Lots of people in the camp have access to True Seeing, as the spell..

So, we have all of them that can, cast it and we, as un-obviously as we can, comb the city and the camp in order to find the spies...

But, what do we do with them once we have them??  What can a group of lots of lawful (and generally good) characters do with these prisoners?

Our first challenge is going to be how we justify taking a bunch of people that just look like normal people out of New Oceanus and Hyrwl and throw them into cells to all of the other people...
We need to find a way to show their true form to the non-draconids in the city...
Dispell magic won't work because it is a natural ability of the draconids... 

Any ideas???


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## Xath (May 12, 2004)

True Seeing is a Cleric 5, Druid 7, Sorc/Wiz 6 spell, so there should be more than 2 people in the camp who should be able to cast it.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> True Seeing is a Cleric 5, Druid 7, Sorc/Wiz 6 spell, so there should be more than 2 people in the camp who should be able to cast it.



 See the below posts... 2 people in the came can cast Prying Eyes which gives you the true seeing abilities and a bunch of other spot bonuses.


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## Xath (May 12, 2004)

Nod, I'm just saying, that others can cast True Seeing, which is an improvement on normal.

Someone convince me to study...


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The best plan for this weekend is to attempt to get over the gates with little to no magical assistance...
> 
> The city watch would be a good place to go, however, we don't have a place to put any elves that we would get out. At this point, as has been discussed in the past, we do not have the means to try to liberate the elves. We have no way to actually get them out of Oceanus without just setting them up for slaughter.
> 
> So, in the city, if we are going to shake some things up, the barracks should be our main objective for Saturday.



If you can get Mik's tunnel thing to work, you might be able to hit a couple of different places, and achieve a couple of objectives--you've done some of the small stuff, as I suggested, now you need to ramp up the risk, and really have an effect on what the draconids are doing. So far, they've lost 1 ship, and about 36 (out of over 5000) soldiers--you need to make more of a dent if you want to have an effect on them. 

My suggestion would be to make something big, and flashy, and something that will set back their plans--stealing their maps won't prevent them from moving...it just means you'll know where they're going, when they go.

You've thought and acted small, and lived.  Now is the time to start thinking and acting bigger, or you'll have squandered valuable time. 

Also, as I have already posted twice, I NEED to know what day the Oceanus hit is going happen on.  How many days after the palace run?  For my ability to plan, this is very important.


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Any ideas???



Your post is full of valid points, but I'd rather hear ideas from the group as to how to do the counterintelligence, and THEN tell you if it's lawful, or good, or both, rather than have me provide a list of options...as it stands, rounding them up is going to look bad, because they just look like people....


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Nod, I'm just saying, that others can cast True Seeing, which is an improvement on normal.
> 
> Someone convince me to study...



 Gertie, GO STUDY!  Life will be better once the semester is over!


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

There are more than 2 people in the camp that can cast true seeing--as more blue mages start to arrive, there are more than likely at least a dozen.  Nonetheless, there's still the problem of actually being able to "see" everyone at once, and thus preventing someone from slipping through the cracks.  

Furthermore, depending on how you decide to deal with the spies, you might alienate some of your followers...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Your post is full of valid points, but I'd rather hear ideas from the group as to how to do the counterintelligence, and THEN tell you if it's lawful, or good, or both, rather than have me provide a list of options...as it stands, rounding them up is going to look bad, because they just look like people....



 That's part of what I was asking... I don't know how to do it-- we've discussed it a little to day... but, no one seems to have any suggestions...

Like I said earlier, we can't just round them up and take them out... we need to find a way to convince them (the normal townspeople) that they (the draconids) are bad and in disguise.


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

On seeing those in the village... I can point out lots of them to you (and have), though with true seeing the caster can say definitely 'I see him in his true form.' The problem also is not locking them up or killing them. The problem is they have done nothing wrong. We don't know they are talking to the enemy, and we don't know they have done anything except encamp with the rest of us. 

One tried to kill me, we killed it. They know that I know about them and thus you guys know about them, but besides that one attempt they have just been sitting.

We are recruiting people seen as bad by king's law through amnesty and such, so think really hard on what it would say to them if we imprison some people on charges of -you are the same species(?) as the enemy.

We could take one and question him far from camp and make sure no one would miss this person or notice their absence.  Or we just watch them, and through true seeing we can watch specific ones closer maybe they will make a mistake.

From my plan yesterday, I am still going with the Barracks to be the best option (more enemies to kill-be the wasp not a fly). 
Also, we got more then one cannon off the ship, and it was diversionary tactics to use the cannon not knock down the wall run through the hole. If the Dragons/Wyverns are looking one way, or even one more then normal is looking one way they will not be looking in another direction... thus the dragon eyes of true seeing will not see us climbing over walls and such.

For time frame- Operation palace was on Day 30, we need at least one day for planning and healing so Day 32 would be this operation


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> These guys are the worst of the bad--their skin has been magically darkened--scarred to reflect their crimes againt their tribes, and to the kingdom at large. They are savage, cruel, and evil--and they've been banished to one of the more inhospitable places in all of the kingdom--the southern hills.
> 
> With the possible exception fo a few wrongfully convicted orcs (whom you cannot even be sure exist), these guys are unredeemable. However, that doesn't mean that they won't fight for or with you, if the reward is high enough.



In this light I am not too keen on adding them to our group/army, but group input...?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Also, we got more then one cannon off the ship, and it was diversionary tactics to use the cannon not knock down the wall run through the hole. If the Dragons/Wyverns are looking one way, or even one more then normal is looking one way they will not be looking in another direction... thus the dragon eyes of true seeing will not see us climbing over walls and such.




Even if we did get more than one cannon in our boat trip, I think it's important that we keep ahold of them-- they are going to be very important in the very near future.
Utilizing a cannon to try to get into the palace will only cause us to lose that cannon.

Moreover, one cannon ball isn't going to get us through the city walls.  If that were the case, they might as well not have a wall.

Best bet will probably be bluff/diplomacy in a pinch... but, go over the wall with grappling hooks, moving as silently as possible.


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## AIM-54 (May 12, 2004)

Okay, keeping Kennon's words in mind, I have an idea for a raid that will send a message and of a larger scale than anything we've tried thus far.  It also incorporates elements of previous ideas mentioned here.  It is, basically, thus:

We enter the city through a destroyed wall, using Gertie's reduce idea with maybe a little help from other magicks, from there we move to the City Watch while taking out all opposition, raid the Watch eliminating more opposition and taking the captured elves with us on our return.  I would also like to include our first ShadowPhoenix squad, which would operate in support of this operation, following us in, running interference while we're inside the Watch compound and otherwise supporting us.  I have no ideas for quick transport back to Hyrwl, but the idea is that this is big enough, surprising enough and quick enough to prevent any quick, massed response.  That and they already know where we're from anyway.  I would also like to do it ASAP after we get back.  No more than 3 days later.

It is daring, very risky and could quite possibly fail, but in the words of Britains Special Air Service, the premier special forces group:

Who Dares Wins

Who's with me?


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Even if we did get more than one cannon in our boat trip, I think it's important that we keep ahold of them-- they are going to be very important in the very near future.
> Utilizing a cannon to try to get into the palace will only cause us to lose that cannon.
> Moreover, one cannon ball isn't going to get us through the city walls. If that were the case, they might as well not have a wall.



Okay for the final time-- it was not to bring down the wall!!! But it does not matter we are not using the cannons except on the walls as defense- got it- no distraction with a cannon. Let's move on.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Best bet will probably be bluff/diplomacy in a pinch... but, go over the wall with grappling hooks, moving as silently as possible.



What I was figuring we would be doing and originally had it as an option.  Never disagreed with this.


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> We enter the city through a destroyed wall, using Gertie's reduce idea with maybe a little help from other magicks, from there we move to the City Watch while taking out all opposition, raid the Watch eliminating more opposition and taking the captured elves with us on our return. I would also like to include our first ShadowPhoenix squad, which would operate in support of this operation, following us in, running interference while we're inside the Watch compound and otherwise supporting us. I have no ideas for quick transport back to Hyrwl, but the idea is that this is big enough, surprising enough and quick enough to prevent any quick, massed response. That and they already know where we're from anyway. I would also like to do it ASAP after we get back. No more than 3 days later.



We need one day for rest, healing, and spells (all can be done in the same day) so day 32.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

Just trying to establish what we're actually going to be doing so that Kennon doesn't nag at me all night about not having a plan for the weekend/he doesn't know what we're doing so he can't write the adventure...

Justice is in midst of discussion with Jaine about the black orcs and a host of other things that we can hopefully have some fun with a week from this Saturday...
I'll post them when everything is actually done.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> We enter the city through a destroyed wall, using Gertie's reduce idea with maybe a little help from other magicks,




This seems keen... however, how exactly are we going to take down the wall?



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> from there we move to the City Watch while taking out all opposition, raid the Watch eliminating more opposition and taking the captured elves with us on our return.




I think trying to take elves with us right now is a BAD idea... we have no means, aside from simply dragging them along with us, of getting them out.  There are lots and lots of them-- we can't just put them in our collective pockets or expect that they will be healthy enough to run all the way back to Hyrwl.

When it comes time to liberate elves, I think that we need to do it as an exclusive mission-- not as a sideline to another.

As for now, I think the best plan is to go to the Barracks and take out as many of the "middle men" as we can-- cause as much chaos and the like as possible.



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I would also like to include our first ShadowPhoenix squad, which would operate in support of this operation, following us in, running interference while we're inside the Watch compound and otherwise supporting us.  I have no ideas for quick transport back to Hyrwl, but the idea is that this is big enough, surprising enough and quick enough to prevent any quick, massed response.  That and they already know where we're from anyway.  I would also like to do it ASAP after we get back.  No more than 3 days later.




I agree.  ASAP.


**As a general note, I think that liberating the elves is very important.  However, a mission like this (raid, cause chaos) doesn't seem to be the place/time for it.  It needs to be a well-planned operation developed specifically for the re-capture of the elves... right now, if we herd up a few of the elves on the way out of the city, their security will increase even more and it will make it even harder to attempt to free all of them in the future...
Trying to take a utilitarian view, here.  It would rock to get a few out-- but, I don't want to get a few at the price of the lot...

Make sense?


----------



## Xath (May 12, 2004)

I think, using a combination of everyone's ideas, we can accomplish all of our goals.

Firstly, to answer QD's question, the knocking down of the wall involves the plan I originally wrote up for blue squad, which is:
Locate Object (Cornerstone) + Reduce = no more wall section

I think the success of this mission involves breaking the parts up into groups.  For example.

Blue Squad knocks down a large section of the wall in a concentrated area, and then makes an expeditious retreat.

Team us, maybe minus one or two, depending on opinion, uses a scroll of Pass Wall on another area of the wall.  Using pass wall with a combination of Silent Image, and Alarm allows the group to enter the city virtually undetected.  And I say virtually.
             Here's how it works: Pass wall creates an arch like opening in the city wall.  Using Silent image on the wall entrences, it will appear that there is no hole in the wall.  We can also Alarm (mental) the entrances so that we will know if it has been discovered and we will know not to try to exit that way.

Team Someone else, and maybe 1-2 of Us, arrive in Centurion's Forest, by means of a hole dug by earth elementals (up to a point.  if they're loud diggers, then they should dig until about 10 feet below ground, and that should be done by hand.) And what do you know? Centurion's Forest is right across from the city watch.  Note: The tunnel should be used as a point of exit ONLY.  This way, there is less of a chance they will know about it before the time of escape.

Then, Team Us makes our way to the city watch, frees elves, then herds them across the street to our ready and waiting hole.

A rough sketch, but a way to get Havoc AND Rescue


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

We need to avoid splitting up at ALL costs... especially in the city.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

Mik's tunnel idea is an awesome idea.  Gotta find out how far the elementals we have access to and for how long..

But-- I think that taking down a part of the wall, then trying to go in over that rubble is a bad plan...
CRASH BANG-- WALL FALLS... guards go... "HUH?" and we are there, trying to jump over the rubble to get into the city... seems like it's just a large spotlight on us...

Sneaky enterance utilizing grappling hooks or tunnels seem like they are the best, and least complicated options.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

Elves are an excellent idea-- I think that we should try to do all we can to get them free.  However, I don't think they can be an "optional quest" or a "side mission" they need to be made a main objective.

So, if on Saturday we want to try to free some elves, we need to work out a plan in order to do that-- in addition to blowing some stuff up and causing a major shake up in the city.

Try to do 2 things instead of just one... but, we need to be able to do them as a group--without splitting up.  It will be complicated-- but, Kennon thinks that we up for it.

So, we need to shift our planning/brainstorming style to include two objectives as opposed to just one, as we have in the past... 

What are your guys ideas as to how the free the elves?  Keep in mind that we need to be able to take quite a few with us... or the only thing that we will have accomplished is to heighten security around their prison.


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> But-- I think that taking down a part of the wall, then trying to go in over that rubble is a bad plan...
> CRASH BANG-- WALL FALLS... guards go... "HUH?" and we are there, trying to jump over the rubble to get into the city... seems like it's just a large spotlight on us...



I am BACK on the Intar-web!  YAY!  

I just read through the thread.  I think some of you are getting stuck in planning little operations--you need to start planning bigger ops, even if they don't include any more people.  Stick it out in the city a little longer, try to make a bigger difference, kill some more draconids, leave a mark. You need to make them scared of you--they need to look over their shoulders every time they move, and wonder if someone's going to kill them for crossing the street.

Getting elves out might be part of that, and it might not be--I don't care...I just want you guys to take a few more risks, be a little more daring--let them know that you've been there, and make them afraid that you're coming back.  Above all, make it seem like there's _no_ _way_ for them to stop you.  

I have some ideas, but I know you guys can think of stuff better than mine.  You want them chasing their tails!  Have fun!


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## AIM-54 (May 12, 2004)

The entire point of my previously mentioned foray is to send a message.  And by doing it loud and violently, it sends quite the message, particularly to anyone who may have thought we were cowed by our previous foray.  Taking down a segment of the wall also prevents anything unfortunate occuring during an over the wall entry scenario, where even if we pick a point between two guardposts, if something goes wrong (ie an errant die roll), guards can be upon us in 1-2 rounds, perhaps leaving someone stranded in a vulnerable position.  By bringing the wall down, anyone coming upon us has to fight on our terms.  Bringing in a ShadowPhoenix squad (designed to be independent operators, recall) to back us up means more firepower in and around the entry point, along the path, at the objective and back again, giving us more freedom to engage in those targets we deem worthy of our attention.

I don't think there will necessarily be an ideal time to get the elves out.  Although this plan is terribly risky and probably leaves much to be desired on the route home, the surprise and shock of such a raid could be much more valuable than a more highly developed plan.  If necessary, we could have troops with wagons waiting at the woodline to help us escape or get the elves back to Hyrwl.  If necessary the group + ShadowPhoenixes would run rearguard to delay/defeat any pursuit.  We have shown no other realistic plan/creativity in attacking this problem and I have my doubts whether we ever will.

If the City Watch is deemed to dangerous, so be it, this method can also work for the Barracks, but I don't think we should get our hopes up that hitting the barracks will eliminate middlemen.  We are likely to just be killing footsoldiers and maybe the occasional officer.  I imagine officers are quartered in more comfortable abodes.

But maybe we're not ready for such a daring exploit.


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## Xath (May 12, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> But-- I think that taking down a part of the wall, then trying to go in over that rubble is a bad plan...
> CRASH BANG-- WALL FALLS... guards go... "HUH?" and we are there, trying to jump over the rubble to get into the city... seems like it's just a large spotlight on us...
> 
> 
> ...


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

*adding to a great start *



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Team us, maybe minus one or two, depending on opinion, uses a scroll of Pass Wall on another area of the wall. Using pass wall with a combination of Silent Image, and Alarm allows the group to enter the city virtually undetected. And I say virtually.
> Here's how it works: Pass wall creates an arch like opening in the city wall. Using Silent image on the wall entrences, it will appear that there is no hole in the wall. We can also Alarm (mental) the entrances so that we will know if it has been discovered and we will know not to try to exit that way.



As druid/ranger I can cast Alarm (it would only ring in my head), so we do not have to waste more money for that spell at least. Unless we want it on other people- then we need have someone else cast it.



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Team Someone else, and maybe 1-2 of Us, arrive in Centurion's Forest, by means of a hole dug by earth elementals (up to a point. if they're loud diggers, then they should dig until about 10 feet below ground, and that should be done by hand.) And what do you know? Centurion's Forest is right across from the city watch. Note: The tunnel should be used as a point of exit ONLY. This way, there is less of a chance they will know about it before the time of escape.



Like this  This does depend on noise and time though... Assuming we are going for another night ops, means we have night 30 to night 32. Going in after the earth elementals could be a project for ShadowPhoenix. This is highly dangerous, but I still think it could work.
Picture idea:: ShadowPhoenix stands at entrance armed and ready. They let elementals dig, once in a certain range elementals stop. Through scrying we have an exact room/building planned out and set of signals, when we are set inside the city (however we got there) and ready we give signal. ShadowPhoenix in place below building in tunnel, they tap back. They dig while we get any flooing out of the way. We all leave that way, last one out sets up an alarm spell --so nothing can follow us and/or with permanency so no one can use it later without us knowing about it.

I would only hesitate to have the entrance/exit be Centurion's Forest- from previous post by Kennon- the forest has been cleared and leveled, so there is no cover -unless someone has new info on it?
We could even have the tunnel go directly below the city watch, Elves will not have to run through streets then. 
Possible alternative: Collapse the tunnel once they are out/ we then go to barracks/ kill mayhem/ exit city through wall or something else.


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

*On Spies....*

Don't worry about killing the draconids in the camp.  Find them as best you can, and then start feeding them information.  feed them false information, feed them conflicting information, but make sure they know what to report. Have "conversations" in front of their tents about sensitive issues, but have everything you say be false.  Start talking about the secret weapon that you have in the forest...how you can't wait for them to attack...

You get the idea.  

Be devious.  Think like a bad guy, but still be a good guy.


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## Xath (May 12, 2004)

I didn't realize the forest had been cleared, but I like the idea of tunneling right under the city watch.  While it makes escape more dangerous, it minimizes the area where we'll have to move the elves.

Oh, and I'm all for feeding false information.


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## Xath (May 12, 2004)

Oh, and the tunnel should only be 3 men wide, max.  It makes the escape slower, but it also minimizes the amount of them that can attack at once.


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Oh, and the tunnel should only be 3 men wide, max. It makes the escape slower, but it also minimizes the amount of them that can attack at once.



Depending on time we could have yoshi harnessed again and use a series of litters, set-up for the most wounded.  Basically have them pulled out by yoshi... ?

By the way in the above ShadowPheonix group would be in the tunnel helping the elves through and out of tunnel, but we would stay to defend thier backs and such...


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

One last thing, as a general note:  

I, as an observer, and to a degree as a storyteller, thought you left the palace WAY too soon last week.  Be brave with these characters--it is an adventure, after all.  Besides--you have a bunch of freakin' clerics back at the camp--resurrection is not that hard to get, nor is it that expensive.  

Just my two bits--remember that your characters need not be stupid, but that they should be brave.


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## AIM-54 (May 12, 2004)

*An Alternative Plan*

Alternatively, if we want to do something risky, but stealthier, we could attempt an infiltration (over the wall, through a tunnel, whatever) followed by a one or two day guerrilla campaign within the city.  By hiding in abandoned buildings and then quickly and quietly eliminating patrols/wandering draconids, followed by relative frequent changes of venue, we can create a bit of fear within the city itself.  This requires a significant risk of staying in the city for awhile and not leaving until we've killed a significant number of draconids or something goes wrong requiring a quick retreat.

Just something to think about that one of Kennon's posts brought to mind...


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## AIM-54 (May 12, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> One last thing, as a general note:
> 
> I, as an observer, and to a degree as a storyteller, thought you left the palace WAY too soon last week.  Be brave with these characters--it is an adventure, after all.  Besides--you have a bunch of freakin' clerics back at the camp--resurrection is not that hard to get, nor is it that expensive.
> 
> Just my two bits--remember that your characters need not be stupid, but that they should be brave.




To be fair, I think some of the reason we stopped when we did was simply the late hour and some primal desire not to leave loose ends.  Hopefully this weekend we can get started sooner and not have a hideous mid-session delay that throws everything off track.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 12, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Alternatively, if we want to do something risky, but stealthier, we could attempt an infiltration (over the wall, through a tunnel, whatever) followed by a one or two day guerrilla campaign within the city.  By hiding in abandoned buildings and then quickly and quietly eliminating patrols/wandering draconids, followed by relative frequent changes of venue, we can create a bit of fear within the city itself.  This requires a significant risk of staying in the city for awhile and not leaving until we've killed a significant number of draconids or something goes wrong requiring a quick retreat.
> 
> Just something to think about that one of Kennon's posts brought to mind...



 This plan is risky... but, I kinda like it..

It not only gives up an opportunity to cause lots of chaos... it would give us an opportunity to observe the routine of the city... gather information and the like... would be a great prep. for actually liberating the elves and taking back the city.
We can discover their weakness and all fun stuff...


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> To be fair, I think some of the reason we stopped when we did was simply the late hour and some primal desire not to leave loose ends.  Hopefully this weekend we can get started sooner and not have a hideous mid-session delay that throws everything off track.



 I agree that a longer stay in the city is a good idea--you need a base on the inside, and this is a good way to start.   

All of your plans have had good parts, but you're not all quite driving at the same thing.  If you can combine all of the good ideas, you'll have a devastating operation going on.

Lastly, remember that you also need to think ahead a bit--think 2-3 steps ahead of where you are, and tailor your ops to drive the draconids to fit those plans.


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Depending on time we could have yoshi harnessed again and use a series of litters, set-up for the most wounded.  Basically have them pulled out by yoshi... ?
> 
> By the way in the above ShadowPheonix group would be in the tunnel helping the elves through and out of tunnel, but we would stay to defend thier backs and such...



 You'd have to make a MUCH larger tunnel to make it big enough for a T-rex.  Think a little bit smaller.


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

*Not the planner...*

So currently we have ... possibly....



1) ShadowPhoenix's coming in through tunnel under city watch, yoshi ready to pull people out faster (long rope for yoshi/also nature's ally for short term/and we Greylocke)

2) us going over/through wall killing as we go

3) Clearing out city watch and getting elves to tunnel

4) close tunnel at city watch

5) we go to barracks - kill, still trying to get info, I think

6) we use empty buildings for short rests/planning


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## AIM-54 (May 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> 6) we use empty buildings for short rests/planning [/color][/color]




It's more complex and dangerous than that.  I'm talking about spending 24-48 hours (maybe longer if we can hack it) in the city gathering some intelligence, but mostly ambushing patrols and then disappearing to create, if not fear, at least some uncertainty among the ranks.  Liz made some good points on the intel side along those lines.  The trick will be to stay mobile and not stay too close to where we take down some enemies.  Opportunities may arise for striking valuable targets that we are currently unaware of, or at least noting the target for a later strike.

The real value will come from creating a feeling of insecurity within the city itself.  Once we've done a raid or two like this, perhaps then we can get our ShadowPhoenixes to continue while we move on to bigger targets, such as the barracks and the city watch compound.


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## Xath (May 12, 2004)

The website has been updated and new pages have been added.

I highly recommend that everyone re-read "The Overview of Doom" which can be found under Session Logs.  

If you have anything to add to the site, please email it to me.


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> 1) ShadowPhoenix's coming in through tunnel under city watch, yoshi ready to pull people out faster (long rope for yoshi/also nature's ally for short term/and we Greylocke)



The tunnel is going to have to be 30 miles long, or so....a rope hooked to Yoshi probably isn't going to cut it.  On the upside, you can probably dig it in a day.  More later!  

--Kennon


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> It's more complex and dangerous than that.  I'm talking about spending 24-48 hours (maybe longer if we can hack it) in the city gathering some intelligence, but mostly ambushing patrols and then disappearing to create, if not fear, at least some uncertainty among the ranks.  Liz made some good points on the intel side along those lines.  The trick will be to stay mobile and not stay too close to where we take down some enemies.  Opportunities may arise for striking valuable targets that we are currently unaware of, or at least noting the target for a later strike.
> 
> The real value will come from creating a feeling of insecurity within the city itself.  Once we've done a raid or two like this, perhaps then we can get our ShadowPhoenixes to continue while we move on to bigger targets, such as the barracks and the city watch compound.



 This is good.  It just needs some focus, and perhaps to be attached to a couple of specific objectives.


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## AIM-54 (May 12, 2004)

*A Question*

If we're going into the city conventionally and over the wall, the following question has occured to me.  Do we know if the Draconids have infravision or darkvision?  This could have serious implications for our operation.


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## The_Universe (May 12, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> If we're going into the city conventionally and over the wall, the following question has occured to me.  Do we know if the Draconids have infravision or darkvision?  This could have serious implications for our operation.



 You're not sure.  You'd need to capture one and test.  

Also, for those interested, if you wanted to tunnel in, it would take around 18 hours, and would cost no more than 8000 GP.  

Sounds like a good option, anyway...


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## AIM-54 (May 12, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> You're not sure.  You'd need to capture one and test.
> 
> Also, for those interested, if you wanted to tunnel in, it would take around 18 hours, and would cost no more than 8000 GP.
> 
> Sounds like a good option, anyway...




Sounds like a job for Laurel and Co.!

Of course, the tunnel option is pretty good too, whatever mission we choose to undertake.

Along the lines of the 24-48 intel/patrol killing mission, possible objectives for scouting include the City Watch and Barracks, to get a feel for the types of soldiers in and around, patrol routines and the like.  A jaunt down to the waterfront might not hurt as well, we may be able to garner some useful intel, cause some destruction etc.  Closer examination of the statues might also be in order.  All the while ambushing patrols/groups of draconids when possible, as quietly as possible.  Any other ideas for objectives?


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

*Just to put it out there*

okay so forget I even made that last post  Looking back at it, rushing to a meeting is not the time to write to a board.


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## Laurel (May 12, 2004)

*Just to put it out there*



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Sounds like a job for Laurel and Co.!
> 
> Of course, the tunnel option is pretty good too, whatever mission we choose to undertake.
> 
> Along the lines of the 24-48 intel/patrol killing mission, possible objectives for scouting include the City Watch and Barracks, to get a feel for the types of soldiers in and around, patrol routines and the like. A jaunt down to the waterfront might not hurt as well, we may be able to garner some useful intel, cause some destruction etc. Closer examination of the statues might also be in order. All the while ambushing patrols/groups of draconids when possible, as quietly as possible. Any other ideas for objectives?



Another possible goal/objective:: if we find some of the elves still with houses and stores--there was mention that there are some elves just out and about hiding in thier homes and such--find one for possible future underground railroad/a more happily ended anne frank story)

As for the statutes, the universe should be telling us Friday if we have seen any changes or can tell what they are being changed into  since we are still scrying the city like crazy.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 13, 2004)

As it stands, we are planning to enter the city utilizing a more mundane path.  We will go over the wall with grappling hooks under cover of invisibility.

Once in the city, we use the sewers and other hide-outs to stay out of sight of the draconids.  If we are caught/seen, we use diplomacy/bluff whenever possible but, if we have to kill-- we do it quickly and quietly.

While in the city, we will establish a place for the elemental to tunnel TO... and it'll be a party.  In addition, we will be gathering information about the draconids daily routine-- where they go, what they do, how they interact-- all of these things will make the liberation of the elves, as well as the liberation of Oceanus a much easier task.

We are hoping to stay in the city for 48 hours.

The exit can, once again, be mundane or we can teleport out... but, suggestions are welcome... maybe try the Passwall/bring down a part of the wall thing then?


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## The_Universe (May 13, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Another possible goal/objective:: if we find some of the elves still with houses and stores--there was mention that there are some elves just out and about hiding in thier homes and such--find one for possible future underground railroad/a more happily ended anne frank story)
> 
> As for the statutes, the universe should be telling us Friday if we have seen any changes or can tell what they are being changed into  since we are still scrying the city like crazy.



As was pointed out to me this evening, you can't scry locations--only people. WHOOPS! You guys have gotten lucky! But, the scrying locations is done for the moment. Think of a new plan! 

BTW, you can blame Gertie for pointing out my accidental leniency. 

Nonetheless, I wil tell you by friday what you know about the statues.


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## The_Universe (May 13, 2004)

*You get by with a little help from your friends....*

Here's what some NPCs would suggest:  

Approximately 48 hours after your palace experience, you travel on foot (or horse or griffon) to somewhere just beyond the edge of the no man's land.  You choose a point of attack, and an agreed upon rendezvous on the other side of the wall.  

Then, rather then depending on being able to see eachother, you depend on coordination.  A mage of some sort casts invisibility on you, and you begin moving to the agreed upon spot, each with ropes and grapples.  You will be unable to see eachother, so timing is of the essence.  After crossing the no man's land (as quietly as possible) you all grapple the wall at pre-chosen places, and begin a fast ascent.  The grapples (and ropes) may be noticed, so you'll need to ascend with the utmost speed.  

_[alternatively, you may wish to stagger your ascents so that some characters can provide a distraction while others climb]_ 

Once at the top of the wall, you'll dispatch any opponents you may encounter as quickly as possible, and then move to one of the guard stations/towers as fast as possible.  If you've encountered resistence, you'll be visible, so speed and silence are extraordinarily important.  Moving to one of the guard posts should aid you, as just trying to cross the inner no man's land will attract undue attention.  You'll descend where the draconids do, and move across the inner no man's land imitating them as well as is possible.  Xath should be able to help a little, here.

Once into the city proper, initial scouting must focus on locating a temporary headquarters.  HQ should be small, out of the way, defensible, and easily hardened against casual patrols and inspection.  You'll need to hide right under their noses.  Remember, undead, saurian creatures like Yoshi, and Wyverns all roam the area at will, so combat may be unavoidable.  Should this be the case,  speed and efficiency will be the watchwords of the day--be ruthless, and efficient, and above all, have your results, but not your persons be noticed.  Silent weapons are a must--no steeldrakes except as a last resort, here.  Justice will have to show restraint with her turning--it is a powerful tool, but easily observed...as long as ity can be done in secret, use it with impugnity.   

One of the objectives of this mission is to strike a little bit of fear into our enemies, so any draconids must be made an example of--if the bodies are to be found, they must be terrible, indeed, to strike fear into the hearts of these black-hearted creatures.   

After establishing an HQ for further operations, several scouting attempts must be made, all while maintaining a low profile.  Primarily, some attempt to map the extent of the sewers must be made--they could serve as a useful tool, indeed.  If they are even half as well designed as the city streets, you'll have a veritable network of tunnels from which you may operate, unless the draconids have already taken advantage of them.  If they have, you'll find out about it during this part of the mission.  Once the undercity has been scouted, a secondary operation must be initiated.  For our purposes, we'll call it Operation: Pet Rock (this is the planar ally plan).  Communication and supply lines must be established between our forest stronghold, and whatever control point we possess in the city.  Operation Pet Rock allows us to do so quickly, quiety, and without notice.    

After casing the sewers (or lack thereof), and connecting Oceanus HQ with Forest Base, the next effort must focus on observing movements and major choke points within the city.  Where are the draconids sleeping (if indeed they sleep)?  How many are gathered in what locations?  Do they move in specific patterns?  Are they preparing to move?  If so, where?  During this mission, any time targets of opportunity present themselves, they should be taken, and made an example of.  Choose a calling card, and begin to leave it everywhere you have infiltrated.

After having identified major choke points, a secondary (or is it tertiary by now?) plan must be made to hit, and severely damage at least one such point.  Your goal must be to hit a target of importance, and wreak such havoc that it will cripple this arm of the invasion, at least until further reinforcements can arrive (or be created).  Little planning can be made on this option until our initial intelligence needs have been met.  If the target identified requires a larger strike force, acquire and brief said force.  Speed will be of the essence, and those people we have trained will be standing by to assist should they be necessary.  

Once at least one major target has been hit and disabled (destroyed is preferable), we will have momentary freedom to act while the enemy is off balance.  Those of our kin that have already been taken to the palace must be assumed to already be lost to the clutches of our enemies.  

The city watch, now serving as a holding cell, must be hit, destroyed, with any free populace within returned to HQ, and through the results of Pet Rock, moved to Forest Base.  Once out of the city, our supply conduit (and Oceanus HQ) must be collapsed, and made unuseable for the enemy, unless the resulting escape has been unobserved by the enemy, entirely.

_[alternatively, you take a much different track with this last step in the plan.  While some characters hit the City Watch (or maybe you have a shadow phoenix force do it), you do something obvious, and get one of the larger units of Draconids to give chase throughout the city.  You'll need crowded streets, and you'll need to ditch any subtelty you've developed in the rest of the op to make this one work.  Once they give chase (the danger must be seen as small enough to warrant a unit or two, not the whole army giving chase) you take them through a place that is difficult to observe, and cast an illusory switcheroo.  Although they should still be chasing you, you'll need to look like Draconids, and they'l need to look like elves.  You hit 'em with a few wands of Seeming (or some other mass illusion spell) and take off toward the wall.  It now looks like (if you can make it work) a bunch of elves are making a run for it at once--coincidentally, right after a bunch of elves disappear from the city watch.  As the good draconids you are, you'll "rouse the alarm" which out to bring your brethren down upon these "elves" with decisive force.  Assuming they ever figure out that they're toasting their own people, they'll stop--but not before you've disappeared in the chaos, and left a calling card or two]_ 

With valuable intelligence on the undercity in hand, we ought to have the wherewithal for Pet Rock II, III, and IV (etc.) operations, and have several new allies, as well as new respect from our foe...at best, we can hope that they begin to fear us.

If Pet Rock becomes compromised, it will be collapsed from Forest Base, and escape will have to made on your own terms. 

Are there any questions?


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## The_Universe (May 13, 2004)

The above is my attempt to come up with a plan--all by myself  (although I did steal from all of you, a bit)!  It fits in every major objective I have heard batted around, and does so in a logical way, and a way that can help serve the war effort at large.  

From an in-game standpoint, you can assume that the non-italics stuff was a tag-team briefing by Meric Randall, Joshua Preston, and Gaerron Dorn.  

What it did NOT include was specific mention of "Passwall" which I think is a good idea--you could substitute its use in several places.  Nor did it take away all of the guesswork.  Lastly, it also fails to include a mechanism to bring down the wall--any number of variations on Pet Rock should be able to do that, as will a more conventional digm, if you can do it.  A wall collapse could serve the alternative elf escape plan very well, if you can manage it.  Dig a tunnel under the wall, and then collapse the supports--INSTANT HOLE!  Real life sappers did this all the time, although they didn't have earth elementals to speed the process. 

It DOES expect you to make a tertiary plan based on information you can get while you're in the city.  There's no time limit--you're not expected to return until the mission is over--coming home early is mission FAILURE.  It requires you to be resourceful, sneaky, and to out-think the enemy as necessary.  It also gives you clear goals, direction, and a few ways to personalize the plan to your own personality.  

My word is not law, and I want you to feel free to totally ignore the plan the three old men presented to you.  But, you guys were getting awfully bogged down in minutiae, and you kept going back to the objectives phase of planning, when you needed to move on to strategy and tactics.  Just wanted to help!    

It's perfect by no means, but when I _play_, I plan like the above.    

Liz was the impetus (as well as many of the ideas) for the above.  Thanks honey!  

As for my suggestion (not as the DM) on who/what to take down--I'd say if you brought home Syvattagor's giant head, you'd really have those Draconids pissed, and unable to think clearly.  Hard or no, that's what I'd hit if I were playing.

btw, I am inordinately prowd of the name Operation: Pet Rock.  It may be dumb, but I liked it.


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## Xath (May 13, 2004)

> Once into the city proper, initial scouting must focus on locating a temporary headquarters. HQ should be small, out of the way, defensible, and easily hardened against casual patrols and inspection. You'll need to hide right under their noses.




I suggest the sewers for temporary HQ.  If the draconids are not already using them, then it's secretive, and even if they are, a sewer HQ would be easily mobile.  

The only issue this brings up is collapsing the tunnel upon escape.  Collapsing the sewer could have detrimental effects on the city above.  Maybe we want that.

Anyway, I'm finished with my final, so I'll be here all day.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I suggest the sewers for temporary HQ.  If the draconids are not already using them, then it's secretive, and even if they are, a sewer HQ would be easily mobile.
> 
> The only issue this brings up is collapsing the tunnel upon escape.  Collapsing the sewer could have detrimental effects on the city above.  Maybe we want that.
> 
> Anyway, I'm finished with my final, so I'll be here all day.



 The sewers will provide an excellent means of secretness-- especially in combination with the tunnels built by our Pet Rock.  Even if the draconids are using the sewers, we will have at least one tunnel that they do not know about.


----------



## Xath (May 13, 2004)

Sigh...what I wouldn't give for a scroll of magic mapping...


----------



## The_Universe (May 13, 2004)

*Hq*

HQ should not be mobile.  HQ should be static--operation pet rock is worthless if you can't keep a direct conduit operational.  There has to be a way for you to get people in and out to a (relatively) safe, established location.  If they exist and prove useable, the sewers are transportation, the sewers are good observation points, and the sewers might be good ways to move unobserved, but they can't _be_ HQ.  You don't know enough about them, nor are they particularly defensible.  They only serve some of the operational guidelines, so HQ needs to be somewhere more defined, more than likely above ground.  

My 2 copper pieces.


----------



## Xath (May 13, 2004)

Also, slightly off topic, but relavent to the overall situation.

How much are we going to trust Arthur Calwys?  He could be an invaluable asset in planning and magic resources, but he's also a pain in the rear.

We know he's been reporting our activities to the Bluestar, but he has more survival skills and war training than most.


----------



## The_Universe (May 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Also, slightly off topic, but relavent to the overall situation.
> 
> How much are we going to trust Arthur Calwys?  He could be an invaluable asset in planning and magic resources, but he's also a pain in the rear.
> 
> We know he's been reporting our activities to the Bluestar, but he has more survival skills and war training than most.



 How do you know Artie is reporting to the Bluestar?  

Also, I think you should trust him with all of your dangerous, innermost secrets.  He will keep them in the deepest confidence, and provide whatever absolution he can!  *shifty eye*

While we're talking about him, John Goodman has been cast as Arthur Cawys in the movie.


----------



## Xath (May 13, 2004)

Justice Fairweather now has posession of a Phylactery of Undead Turning (11000gp) which allows her to turn undead as if her class level were 4 levels higher than it is.  Make a note of it.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> HQ should not be mobile.  HQ should be static--operation pet rock is worthless if you can't keep a direct conduit operational.  There has to be a way for you to get people in and out to a (relatively) safe, established location.  If they exist and prove useable, the sewers are transportation, the sewers are good observation points, and the sewers might be good ways to move unobserved, but they can't _be_ HQ.  You don't know enough about them, nor are they particularly defensible.  They only serve some of the operational guidelines, so HQ needs to be somewhere more defined, more than likely above ground.
> 
> My 2 copper pieces.



 I agree totally.  The point of HQ is to have a place that we can always return to within the city-- our base of operations, as it were.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Justice Fairweather now has posession of a Phylactery of Undead Turning (11000gp) which allows her to turn undead as if her class level were 4 levels higher than it is.  Make a note of it.



 Also-- YAY FOR THIS THING!

*puts it in her pocket*


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## Xath (May 13, 2004)

We also have a means to disguise the less disguiserific people.  We have a ring of lesser spell storing.  Right now, it's occupied by a 10d6 lightning bolt, but after that is released, Alter Self could be cast into the ring, allowing a non-magic user to shape shift effectively.


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Have I so stunned the group with a plan that I murdered any potential for discussion?  There's still stuff to figure, as well as soem thinking ahead that needs to be done!


----------



## Xath (May 14, 2004)

No, it's just that the boards were too slow to respond today....


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## AIM-54 (May 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Have I so stunned the group with a plan that I murdered any potential for discussion?  There's still stuff to figure, as well as soem thinking ahead that needs to be done!




Occasionally some of us have better things to do.  Occasionally some of us find it's not worth the time and effort to overthink what is, in fact, a game and should not occupy every waking moment.  Or else we expend too much energy on this in the early part of the week, that by the end, we just don't care.

Pure speculation on my part.


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Occasionally some of us have better things to do.  Occasionally some of us find it's not worth the time and effort to overthink what is, in fact, a game and should not occupy every waking moment.  Or else we expend too much energy on this in the early part of the week, that by the end, we just don't care.
> 
> Pure speculation on my part.



 Hmmmm....I admit that it is possible.   

I was just curious as to what shut down the flurry of activity at the beginning of the week.  

Also, I was hoping someone would either take the NPC plan and run with it, or that it would be mercilessly torn to shreds by your superior brains.


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Hmmmm....I admit that it is possible.
> 
> I was just curious as to what shut down the flurry of activity at the beginning of the week.
> 
> Also, I was hoping someone would either take the NPC plan and run with it, or that it would be mercilessly torn to shreds by your superior brains.



L'Aurel writes the plan down in a short hand only she can read then runs away into the woods, then across the sea to the north and gives it to the bluestar to get his ideas on the matter. -Um, not really-


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Occasionally some of us have better things to do. Occasionally some of us find it's not worth the time and effort to overthink what is, in fact, a game and should not occupy every waking moment. Or else we expend too much energy on this in the early part of the week, that by the end, we just don't care.
> 
> Pure speculation on my part.



Some of us are just having days from ... (well, bad days) at work, and discovering palm pilots are not good for internet usage. And laptops are hard to disguise at a meeting.


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> L'Aurel writes the plan down in a short hand only she can read then runs away into the woods, then across the sea to the north and gives it to the bluestar to get his ideas on the matter. -Um, not really-



 He says he'll help you, if only you'll help him to smell a flower one last time.  Eternal undeath has grown boring, and so now I wants to be a good little lich, so he can go to heaven!  He also gives you control of his millions of undead thralls, as well as his ample living armies.  Then, he skips through the lillies.

-um...not really.-


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

*remember not the planner not the planner*

Since it is Friday I say why not go with this plan. It goes towards our goals/combines lots of cool ideas from everyone and gives us options once in. Still need at least one plan to get out in a hurry though J- but that could be the hole in wall or the disguise trick them into killing each other.

For part one-- invis. on each person and moving to edge of forest on foot only -cool. By foot less noise and griffon calling should be saved in case Justice needs him later the same day. Staggering our accents good, but time or distance? If time staggering, maybe just have team one go then one minutes after grapples go up team two goes using the same ropes and hooks already in place. Worst case team two moves before team one at top and the bump into each other. Or if distance have two entrances on either side of a watch tower, and the tower in the middle is our goal to meet up. Most likely by the time we reach the tower we will be visible and just sticking to shadows anyways. Or whatever combo or lack of either people feel like. 

On that same note- can Arhconus and I, who have hand signals worked out after four weeks of hunting now, teach basic ones to the group? Would it add/help/negate the check for whatever that is?

I think we can assume as with the other missions, clothing, weapons, armor will all have to be blacked out.

On the HQ, agreement that it should be stationary and not in sewers. If agreed upon, I will be using the alarm spell on any main entrances at HQ- so after scouting or whatever mission we are on we have a heads up for someone possibly inside. This obviously does not mean there are not possible other ways in, or say that we would still not be cautious going inside… but maybe a little bit o’ help. Some stupid questions on the alarm spell (but rather ask now then find out later)- is it this piercing pain in my head if it goes off? do I end up with a penalty for listen checks while alarm goes off? after it starts do I just dispel the spell and it stops?

On a less important note- our calling card- We could always just go with leaving the talon mark on foreheads/ chopping off heads/ tying pieces of red cloth to uniforms of enemies… I just do not think any of these will strike fear into the enemy, but it would tie all the killings together.


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> He says he'll help you, if only you'll help him to smell a flower one last time. Eternal undeath has grown boring, and so now I wants to be a good little lich, so he can go to heaven! He also gives you control of his millions of undead thralls, as well as his ample living armies. Then, he skips through the lillies.
> 
> -um...not really.-



At least it is not an obsession with apples...


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

*spies everywhere...*

I would say we tell as few of plan as possible, then draconoids any other possible spy could only pass on that we are going, but not where or how many or anything.  
As mentioned before, I think we could feed them incorrect info. though, and possibly have that help out our plan -mention a large force by sea, mention T-rex getting ready to seeing his friends/buddies/family again, mention spies we have had inside the city guard that we are 'activating', and other stuff.


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

*Clarifications and refinements*




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Still need at least one plan to get out in a hurry though J- but that could be the hole in wall or the disguise trick them into killing each other.



 Passwall makes a good backup for escape, although you'd still need to get across the inner and outer no-man's land. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Staggering our ascents good, but time or distance? If time staggering, maybe just have team one go then one minutes after grapples go up team two goes using the same ropes and hooks already in place.



 Whatever you do, just make sure you have the timing ready and agreed upon--if somebody decides to change the plan at this point, it will be hard to get back on track. Invis. is primarily being used to get you across the dangerous no man's land without being observed. Nobody has made any forays into that area yet from your side, and so you'll need to be careful, even though you'll be invisible. I like the staggering idea, as well as hitting two sides of a guard post, and meeting in the middle. All of the small variations are valid, it's just a matter of you guys picking one. Draw straws, roll a die--whatever. I see no major disadvantage with any of them. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> On that same note- can Arhconus and I, who have hand signals worked out after four weeks of hunting now, teach basic ones to the group? Would it add/help/negate the check for whatever that is?



 In a rules sense, no. If there's a complete communication system that you have created, it would cost the same (in skill points) as learning a new language. If it's just generally descriptive signals and movements, it's just a bluff/sense motive thing.

Despite this, you might get a bonus if you declared that you had been "practicing" with the group--although it won't be anything spectacular. 

Alternatively, you've got enough money now that you could get at least 6 (and I might make a deal for 7) rings of telepathy made, so that you could communicate silently, making the innuendo checks unnecessary. It'd wipe you out almost completely of gold, silver, gems, and goods....but they'd make invading easier. (I think you'd have 3000 GP left). 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> is it this piercing pain in my head if it goes off? do I end up with a penalty for listen checks while alarm goes off? after it starts do I just dispel the spell and it stops?




You can choose what kind of alarm it is. If you want a silent, mental alarm, it'll be a spider-sense kind of tingle. You can even make the alarm audible to everyone. You could cast it so that it was a tickle in your armpit--you pick, and that's what it is. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> On a less important note- our calling card- We could always just go with leaving the talon mark on foreheads/ chopping off heads/ tying pieces of red cloth to uniforms of enemies… I just do not think any of these will strike fear into the enemy, but it would tie all the killings together.




I like the red cloth....or maybe coins with phoenixes on them? The symbol need not be scary on its own...but the more you do, the more times you leave it, the scarier it will get.


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Also, remember that someone needs to get a scroll (and probably 2) of Planar Ally.


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Alternatively, you've got enough money now that you could get at least 6 (and I might make a deal for 7) rings of telepathy made, so that you could communicate silently, making the innuendo checks unnecessary. It'd wipe you out almost completely of gold, silver, gems, and goods....but they'd make invading easier. (I think you'd have 3000 GP left).



This could be cool... we could also just get two, or a partial amount instead of everyone having one.  If we have two teams moving at wall, just one for each team.  Xath and Justice rock on the bluff/sense motive stuff, so they can just wave thier pinky and we would completly understand them.  
But I leave this to the group.... I am fine either way.





			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> I like the red cloth....or maybe coins with phoenixes on them? The symbol need not be scary on its own...but the more you do, the more times you leave it, the scarier it will get.



Coins... no giving them money!    We could use some chips/slivers of wood with the phoenix though...?  
PS- L'aurel taking and wearing red mask for mission.


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## Xath (May 14, 2004)

Ooh Oooh, For our trademark we could turn on all of the sinks and put cloth in the drains so they overflow.  Then we could call ourselves the Wet Bandits...


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Coins... no giving them money!  We could use some chips/slivers of wood with the phoenix though...?



  Chips of wood work, although somebody would have to be putting phoenixes on them.  For coins, I was thinking copper pieces, rather than something that would seriously drain you of resources.  But hey--simple red masks left at the scene work just as well.  The key is consistency.


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## Xath (May 14, 2004)

Double Post


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## Xath (May 14, 2004)

Ok, so what I'm trying to do right now is make a list of equipment we have and are going to take with us, and a list of equipment we need to aquire.  Kennon suggests taking out a loan from the Kingdom.  I don't know how he expects us to give to the poor when we're already in so much debt.


So right now we have: 

Wands of:
Knock	44
Detect Secret Doors 	21
Melf's Acid Arrow	28
Levitate	6
Hold Person	48
Fireball 5th Level	47
Shatter	9
Shatter	28

Potions of:
Cure Light Wounds	5
Cure Moderate Wounds	2
Eagle's Splendor	1
Spider Climb	1
Oil of Bless Weapon	1
Mage Armor	1
Lesser Restoration	1
Endure Elements	1
Barkskin +2	1
Bull's Strength	1

Scrolls of:
Locate Object
Delay Poison
Shield Other
Detect Snares and Pits
Animate Rope
Detect Magic
Ghost Sound

Other items:
Folding Boat- useful to take with us just in case.
Rod of Rulership- when we get back, we'll sell it to Jaine, but right now we can control draconids with int less then 12 (and those with higher Int who fail a will save) Idea: We could rule the City Watch
Rod of Lesser Quickening- awesome.  Once per day, one of us can cast a spell as a free action.
Javelin of Lightning- anyone use Javelins? If not, let's sell it.
Dagger +3 of Frost/Icy Burst- it's sooooooooo pretty...

I'll post what we need/want in a separate post.


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Ok, so what I'm trying to do right now is make a list of equipment we have and are going to take with us, and a list of equipment we need to aquire. Kennon suggests taking out a loan from the Kingdom. I don't know how he expects us to give to the poor when we're already in so much debt.



  By no means do I expect you to donate money to the poor--as long as you don't care about being exalted.  My comments on generosity were just to remind you that it was a required part of being exalted.  I agree that it is unreasonable...but since exultation really gives you some unreasonable advantages, there has to be a tradeoff somewhere.  

The list looks good!  

If somebody isn't going to use those weapons, sell them ASAP!  Both are powerful and useful, but if they're not going to go on the front of someone's sheet (ie, as primary weapons) get rid of them and spend the money on stuff that's going to have more utility.


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Javelin of Lightning- anyone use Javelins? If not, let's sell it.
> Dagger +3 of Frost/Icy Burst- it's sooooooooo pretty...



For these two- I think Tim is spear/crossbow, but I am not 100% on that one.
For the dagger... does everyone have a sharp point weapon to slice throats with? (except Kareth who just likes to 'grrr.. smash') 

But as kennon said if not specific to someone we can sell them and get nicely tailored weapons to each person...


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Justice Fairweather now has posession of a Phylactery of Undead Turning (11000gp) which allows her to turn undead as if her class level were 4 levels higher than it is. Make a note of it.



Awesome, did we just buy this? or did Xath work some ...um... magic and earn it?


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## AIM-54 (May 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> For these two- I think Tim is spear/crossbow, but I am not 100% on that one.
> For the dagger... does everyone have a sharp point weapon to slice throats with? (except Kareth who just likes to 'grrr.. smash')
> 
> But as kennon said if not specific to someone we can sell them and get nicely tailored weapons to each person...





Kaereth has a kama+1 as well as his shortspear of ki strike if anything needs to get sliced.  By him at any rate.  Mostly he prefers his fists of fury.  *giggle*  Ahem.


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Awesome, did we just buy this? or did Xath work some ...um... magic and earn it?



 It was in the pile of treasure you got in Ahrianna Blackadder's chamber.


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## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

*all really the same question.*

Has it rained/snowed in the last two days?  In no mans land... is it dusty dry dirt, wet mud, dead branches or woods just chopped down and left?  Is it barren from trees to wall, or is anything in the way? (yes, I know that we know of/can see)


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Has it rained/snowed in the last two days?  In no mans land... is it dusty dry dirt, wet mud, dead branches or woods just chopped down and left?  Is it barren from trees to wall, or is anything in the way? (yes, I know that we know of/can see)



 No man's land was once part of the city proper.  Buildings have been razed to the ground, basements filled in with soil, and the building materials that could be salvaged used to build the wall around Oceanus.  It is a flat, open plain specifically designed to provide NO COVER to anyone approaching within 1/4 mile of the wall, either from the inside of the city, or the outside.  

Remember, The Alder's forest is approximately 30 miles north of the city of Oceanus.  So, there is a lot of open space (mostly rolling plain) between the trees and the wall.  Nonetheless, there are a few abandoned buildings that were once part of Oceanus more than 1/4 mile from the place the wall and no man's lands were built....they provide some cover, but there's really no way to get across the no man's land without being seen (other than being unable to be seen at all).   

It has been snowing off and on since you summoned the blizzard about a week/2 weeks ago.  As of the 24 hours before your next operation is set to begin, the sky is cloudy, but it is not snowing.  As such, the no man's land is covered in snow (since it hasn't warmed appreciably)--ranging from about 4 inches in some spots, to drifts as tall as 3-4 feet.  When you walk across, you'll leave tracks--but if you can step carefully, they'll have to look awfully hard to see them.


----------



## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

*Could be totally off with this...*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Remember, The Alder's forest is approximately 30 miles north of the city of Oceanus. So, there is a lot of open space (mostly rolling plain) between the trees and the wall.



hmmmmm..... 30 miles... so 2.5 hours for all out running human with non-chain mail just to get to wall from trees or 10 hours at a walk, so we would have to set up a mid-point to rest somehow no matter what... or we get closer first somehow...



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> It has been snowing off and on since you summoned the blizzard about a week/2 weeks ago. As of the 24 hours before your next operation is set to begin, the sky is cloudy, but it is not snowing. As such, the no man's land is covered in snow (since it hasn't warmed appreciably)--ranging from about 4 inches in some spots, to drifts as tall as 3-4 feet. When you walk across, you'll leave tracks--but if you can step carefully, they'll have to look awfully hard to see them.



Once we get to no-man's land -last 1/4 mile I can cast pass without trace on 3 people for 3 hours. Thus those three would not leave marks in the snow or even a scent trail... just wanted to throw that out as an option...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Awesome, did we just buy this? or did Xath work some ...um... magic and earn it?



 We got it last weekend.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It was in the pile of treasure you got in Ahrianna Blackadder's chamber.



 I should send her a thank you note...

Dear Ahrianna,
Thank you so much for the incredibly powerful undead fighting tool.  I will be using it against your minions.

Love,
Justice (the person... not the concept)


----------



## Laurel (May 14, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I should send her a thank you note...
> 
> Dear Ahrianna,
> Thank you so much for the incredibly powerful undead fighting tool. I will be using it against your minions.
> ...



Is Justice taking/using the last name Preston or is she still using Fairweather?


----------



## Xath (May 14, 2004)

The other list:

7 rings of Telepathy- 45000gp
70 potions of Cure Light Wounds- 3500gp (at least)
Wand of Wall of Stone- 11,250gp
Wand of Passwall- 11.250gp
Wand of Seeming- 11.250gp
Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds- 4,500

Obviously, we can't afford all of this.  But we can go into deeper debt than we're in now...


----------



## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> hmmmmm..... 30 miles... so 2.5 hours for all out running human with non-chain mail just to get to wall from trees or 10 hours at a walk, so we would have to set up a mid-point to rest somehow no matter what... or we get closer first somehow...



I tend to imagine that it takes you 5-6 hours at a hustle (2x move) on foot.  When you went from Oceanus to Hyrwl for the first time, I said it would take you half a day, and that works out pretty close.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Once we get to no-man's land -last 1/4 mile I can cast pass without trace on 3 people for 3 hours. Thus those three would not leave marks in the snow or even a scent trail... just wanted to throw that out as an option...



Great idea.  You'll want to use that, definitely!


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## The_Universe (May 14, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> The other list:
> 
> 7 rings of Telepathy- 45000gp
> 70 potions of Cure Light Wounds- 3500gp (at least)
> ...



 Why don't you just get a wand of cure light wounds, rather than 70 potions?  Are they that expensive?  

As it stands you might have to go with scrolls, rather than wands, of some the spells (like Passwall).


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Is Justice taking/using the last name Preston or is she still using Fairweather?



 That's a good question... I'm thinking about taking the name Preston... but, at the same time, Fairweather is a good reminder for her of where she has come from... and what she will, someday, have to face.

(Fairweather is the name given to children without fathers born at sea)...

I'm thinking about it... I've asked Preston what he would say... and he has yet to respond *pokes the DM*


----------



## The_Universe (May 16, 2004)

Preston shrugs.  "Whatever.  You do what you want.  It's your beautiful body."


----------



## Xath (May 16, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Preston shrugs.  "Whatever.  You do what you want.  It's your beautiful body."





Ewwww.....


----------



## The_Universe (May 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Ewwww.....



 That was just a shorter, easier way of saying he is fine with it, but that he would not so quickly abandon the identity that he had had for so long, were it him.


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## Laurel (May 17, 2004)

*Part Duex*

So we have gained entry, started to leave our marks on the dead, cleared off part of the wall, know a little more of defense & entry points of the city watch, have a tunnel to outside Oceanus in progress, knowing the sewer systems and we all lived... well, we are all alive currently.  We also have a thing knocking on the door.  How to deal with that, I don't think, we can really plan for, but made for a great cliff hanger.
What we can plan for: the discussion pre-sleep/rest/alone time of what further scouting we need and how to get the elves out... right? Is this even our next step?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 17, 2004)

Right now, we have the advantage of being able to plan our response to the draconids that are at our door...

Do we want to kill them and stick them in the sphere or do we want to try to bluff them away?

If we want to bluff them away, our main objective has got to be to get them to NOT come into the building... So, what lie do we want to use?
Xath and Justice speak draconic... (Xath has more ranks than Justice, though... I've only got 3)...

BRAINSTORM!


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## Laurel (May 17, 2004)

Double post same as below... sorry...


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## Laurel (May 17, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Right now, we have the advantage of being able to plan our response to the draconids that are at our door...





			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Xath and Justice speak draconic... (Xath has more ranks than Justice, though... I've only got 3)...
> 
> BRAINSTORM!



L'aurel's got four ranks in draconic, so I understand them but horrible-- not much good for the speaking part.  
We could just go with two/one scared elves in the warehouse hiding who believe them and so open the door, while the rest of us are in hiding around the building.  When they come in we jump them, kill them.  Then drag/carry thier bodies through the sewer to another part of the city leaving the red cloth on them-- or we put them in the black hole.
OH, I have it! Let's put them in the blocks of ooze.  Then when Queen of the Ooze makes them come to the surface, some will have dead guards floating in them with red cloth marks.  That may have some phychological impact on the enemy   But just an idea.


----------



## The_Universe (May 17, 2004)

Doesn't look like there's anything I can add at this point.  I'll continue to monitor the boards, but so far, most of this stuff looks like a good idea.


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## The_Universe (May 17, 2004)

Doesn't look like there's anything I can add at this point.  I'll continue to monitor the boards, but so far, most of this stuff looks like a good idea.


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## AIM-54 (May 17, 2004)

Personally, I think our best plan is to make no sound whatsoever and only engage them if they come into the building...hiding and waiting to strike from cover.  Or just seeing if we can hide and banking on the fact that they probably do tons of these searches every day, that they won't be looking too hard.  And if they do find someone, we kill them.  I don't think there's any guarantee that they'll come into the building necessarily.

  There are plenty of boxes and such around, if I remember the description of the interior correctly.


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

Just remember there is a BIG whole in the floor... not sure if we ever specified over in the corner or near a wall or just in the middle....


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Personally, I think our best plan is to make no sound whatsoever and only engage them if they come into the building...hiding and waiting to strike from cover. Or just seeing if we can hide and banking on the fact that they probably do tons of these searches every day, that they won't be looking too hard. And if they do find someone, we kill them. I don't think there's any guarantee that they'll come into the building necessarily.
> 
> There are plenty of boxes and such around, if I remember the description of the interior correctly.



But then we may not get to kill :-(  But weather we sit and wait or interact or kill or whatever, we just have to make sure that this building remains off the radar screen for these creatures, as we can not move the whole.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

L'Aurel... isn't 4 ranks enought to speak it perfectly... and 3 is enough to speak it but horribly..

That's what I seem to remember... but, I could be wrong.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Just remember there is a BIG whole in the floor... not sure if we ever specified over in the corner or near a wall or just in the middle....



 It's a big hole in the middle of the floor...

However, Xath may be able to disguise it... not sure if she has that spell...

So, Xath, do ya?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Taking ranks in Draconic is fine.  I'm assuming that you found a couple more of the spies, and then made them teach you the language, rather than just burning through their heads with marks of justice.
> 
> As for how learning new languages works, 1 rank lets you either read it or speak it enough to get the gist of various statements--like passing high school draconic.
> 
> ...



 Whoops!  You were right, Kat...

Justice has 3 ranks, I think..


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

DM- How long after returning from the city watch do we hear the knock??

For plan knock (thanks J.)--
We make no sounds and see what they do.
If they go away: we stay still for a little bit longer, then go to next stage.  And now know that they do routine searches like this.
If they come in: Remember they seem to be keeping the elves alive for torture or eating later on- so scared elf in corner to draw them all into warehouse completly could work (only one person actually out, everyone else in hiding).  Or we stay still and hope they all come in and/or no one touches the hole if its disguised.  
If someone is discovered, they start to shoot at us, they touch the floor, or any other indication that the guards definately know we are there- we kill quickly making sure we kill all the guards before an alarm or call for back-up can be sent out.

If we need to what do we do with the bodies?  I still like the mess with thier heads 
Also, do we want to figure out next stage, or just see what happens with the guards and plan on ... on gameday?


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## The_Universe (May 18, 2004)

It's probably 3 hours after you return from the city watch--about halfway through the night.  

If it ends in conflict (rather than a bluff where they just go away), make sure that they have no way of calling for reinforcements--on the wall, they called for reinforcements, and got them...and you killed them, too.  So, you'll either have to be blindingly fast, or somehow prevent their screams/roars from being heard outside the building.

Whatever you do with the bodies, make sure they are found somewhere FAR from HQ.  

Hope that helps!


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## The_Universe (May 18, 2004)

*Languages and Watch Order*

A note and a question:  

For languages, anything over 5 skillpoints spent in a language means that you are better at it than native speakers.  You know obscure grammatical rules and whether to use the draconic equivalent of "to" "too" or "two."  You could rightfully scold soldiers for their poor forms, etc.  

You would be the english majors of draconic!  

In an unrelated manner--what was the watch order, again?  I want to know who would have been awake 3 hours into the night.


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

*Not final in anyway!!!!!!!!*




			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> In an unrelated manner--what was the watch order, again? I want to know who would have been awake 3 hours into the night.




Here's what L'Aurel is doing and where she is.

_L'Aurel_ was on the second story platform. Knowing even with endurance feat a little bit of sleep never hurt anyone, so sleeping w/internal alarm still going for door.

--Look at Jeremiah's post below--


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## AIM-54 (May 18, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Not speaking for everyone, or trying to say what your character is doing, but from what I remember at the end on Saturday and going on the fact that we were doing this to get a full rest to get back spells and health after battling and running around and such all the day before.
> 
> _Arhconus_ (as always) not asleep, most likely takes first watch weather we want him to or not   He was somehow on the second story though (rafters, roof, wall outside, second story platform, etc.?) when we heard the knock.
> _Justice_ - ? (sleeping?)
> ...




The last thing we did was check out the place.  We never discussed watches or anything else.  Kennon just rolled up the encounters and then we went home.  So nothing in terms of who is sleeping/watching or anything has been decided.  Where we were when we stopped playing is probably not where we are three hours into the night, once we've gone to sleep and what not.


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> If it ends in conflict (rather than a bluff where they just go away), make sure that they have no way of calling for reinforcements--on the wall, they called for reinforcements, and got them...and you killed them, too. So, you'll either have to be blindingly fast, or somehow prevent their screams/roars from being heard outside the building.



Does Xath have silence (bard 2) spell? Also, since we are not getting a full night of sleep we need to figure out spell rationing... L'aurel is almost out completely.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Does Xath have silence (bard 2) spell? Also, since we are not getting a full night of sleep we need to figure out spell rationing... L'aurel is almost out completely.



 Justice can cast Silence.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

There are a couple of L'Aurels posts that are in a font that just isn't visible for me... just huge empty boxes...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Does Xath have silence (bard 2) spell? Also, since we are not getting a full night of sleep we need to figure out spell rationing... L'aurel is almost out completely.



 With an effective watch order, we should be able to get enough sleep to replenish spells...
Or at least, one can hope...


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## The_Universe (May 18, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> The last thing we did was check out the place. We never discussed watches or anything else. Kennon just rolled up the encounters and then we went home. So nothing in terms of who is sleeping/watching or anything has been decided. Where we were when we stopped playing is probably not where we are three hours into the night, once we've gone to sleep and what not.



Yeah--the locations are free to change.  I was just curious if there was somone awake.  But, with Kat's alarm on, you might have been able to just let everybody sleep.  *Shrugs* I was just curious--I don't think it's going to effect anything of much import.


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## Xath (May 18, 2004)

Not in 3 hours.  Justice, especially, needs 8 hours of rest for new spells.  Remember, we rolled 4 encounters for the evening.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Not in 3 hours.  Justice, especially, needs 8 hours of rest for new spells.  Remember, we rolled 4 encounters for the evening.



 I think it is a necessity that we try to find the time for all individuals that can cast spells to get the sleep they need.

Pass without Trace is an AWESOME spell and, if we can make use of it again, that would be wonderful...


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## AIM-54 (May 18, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Not in 3 hours.  Justice, especially, needs 8 hours of rest for new spells.  Remember, we rolled 4 encounters for the evening.




 What qualifies as 8 hours rest?  If Justice can't take a watch and still qualify for new spells, it kinda makes the whole "adventurer" thing silly.  There's also nothing saying that if the encounters go quietly, with only minor interruption that spells won't be replenished.  If there's a major encounter, we can always rest for an extra hour or so to ensure spell replenishment.

Like most things, it seems to be a DM decision as to what exactly would be required


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 18, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> What qualifies as 8 hours rest?  If Justice can't take a watch and still qualify for new spells, it kinda makes the whole "adventurer" thing silly.  There's also nothing saying that if the encounters go quietly, with only minor interruption that spells won't be replenished.  If there's a major encounter, we can always rest for an extra hour or so to ensure spell replenishment.
> 
> Like most things, it seems to be a DM decision as to what exactly would be required



 I agree... 

But, I really don't think that the resting needs to be reserved for any one person.  All the spellcasters need to try to get enough rest to replenish...

Can we do that with breaks in there?  That is the question!


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## The_Universe (May 18, 2004)

According to the official rules, you can have an 8 hour rest with minor interruptions without screwing with your ability to replenish spells, etc.

However, Jeremiah's guesses are essentially exactly how I would rule--if you don't manage to fool them, rest a little longer.  

The first of 3 (not 4) encounters starts in the middle of the night, and you're not going to want to be out in the city in broad daylight, anyway.  So, you won't have spells at the start of this encounter, but you'll have a chance to get them eventually.


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## AIM-54 (May 18, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I agree...
> 
> But, I really don't think that the resting needs to be reserved for any one person.  All the spellcasters need to try to get enough rest to replenish...
> 
> Can we do that with breaks in there?  That is the question!





  My intention was not to limit it to one character's needs, but Justice had been specifically mentioned, so I continued with that example.  Apologies for any confusion on that.


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## Xath (May 18, 2004)

Actually, I think Xath has used only 1 0-level spell and no special abilities so far.  So...it doesn't matter for her, I was more thinking about Justice and L'Aurel.


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

*On spells*

1 of three identical posts


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

*On spells*

2 of three identical posts


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## Laurel (May 18, 2004)

*On spells*

"Clerics meditate or pray for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time at which he must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a cleric can prepare spells." from http://srd.pbemnexus.com/cleric.html

So, if you cast spells as a cleric does (Druids, Paladins, and Rangers): you need one hour mediation/prayer to get your spells back. Thus, Justice, L'Aurel and Arhconus, all being of this sort, can mediate or whatever they do for an hour, and can still have two hours of sleep. (Obviously this is only if you choose for your character to do so- blah, blah blah.)

We all do still need sleep eventually to eliminate fatigue (even those of us with endurance) 

Cool about Xath spells, as they are always good ones to have and I have no idea how Bard day start/end time works


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## The_Universe (May 19, 2004)

Wow.  Triple post.  I am impressed!


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## Laurel (May 19, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Wow. Triple post. I am impressed!



Yeah I figured I would spice it up from the normal double post


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 19, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> "Clerics meditate or pray for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time at which he must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a cleric can prepare spells." from http://srd.pbemnexus.com/cleric.html




This makes much more sense than the 8 hours of rest, most definately.  Was trying to figure it out last weekend but Kennon was bent on the idea that I needed 8 hours...

I'm glad to know that's the way it is!  YAY!


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## Laurel (May 19, 2004)

So now that _I think_ we have the spellcasting figured out-- Any suggestions for the plan after the the guards? I figure some sort of outline would be good, and I'm bored  
Are we going for more info. or starting on attacks or waiting until the whole is complete then sending ShadowPheonix on info. missions are they just guarding the whole both entrance and exit?? What was everyone... or whoever reads this thinking??

Also, as Kennon asked before, who is taking the hours for sleep and who is awake at whatever time it is that we hear the knock??


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 19, 2004)

Just to make sure that I've got everyone straight...

How many hours after we have been at HQ do the draconids come?

Watch order doesn't have to be anything solid... if we are resting for 8-9 hours, I would say that we each need to take watch for, say, 2 hours... that gives us a whopping 10 hours to do the resting and meditating... (Justice has to meditate for an hour with the rising sun)...

So-- When would you like to be on watch?

First Watch (first 2 hours)-- Justice

Who wants second, third, fourth, and fifth?


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## Laurel (May 19, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It's probably 3 hours after you return from the city watch--about halfway through the night.



As Liz stated in the post above, we would have planned watches through the night; even though, we do not get to them all :-(
But if Justice has first watch, then L'Aurel (the early riser) would have defiantely wanted watch #5. So, as everyone settles in for the night wherever doing whatever- she alarms the door (good for six hours).  Then goes to the second story balcony/railing where she can see out the windows and uses the first hour for prayer time.  Then goes to sleep in one of the corners upstairs.... till the knock- dun-dun-da!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 19, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> As Liz stated in the post above, we would have planned watches through the night; even though, we do not get to them all :-(
> But if Justice has first watch, then L'Aurel (the early riser) would have defiantely wanted watch #5. So, as everyone settles in for the night wherever doing whatever- she alarms the door (good for six hours).  Then goes to the second story balcony/railing where she can see out the windows and uses the first hour for prayer time.  Then goes to sleep in one of the corners upstairs.... till the knock- dun-dun-da!



 Justice takes first watch so that she can get up early and prepare her spells with the rising sun...

So, she'll be up good 'n early... but, wants to get some rest while she can.


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## The_Universe (May 19, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> How many hours after we have been at HQ do the draconids come?



You've been back at HQ for four hours, and have been "resting" for three when the knocks are heard, initially by whomever is on second watch.  (since you are doing 2 hour watches)

Hope that helps.


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## Xath (May 19, 2004)

Xath only needs 4 hours of meditation, so she can take up to 3 watches.


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## The_Universe (May 19, 2004)

I don't think that anyone needs to take multiple watches.  The watches aren't really important, except as a way to note that you, in fact, had them.


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## Archon (May 19, 2004)

*Predictable.*

Archon, being the predictable pain in the rump that he is, lets Justice take first watch then takes the second watch. Not really wanting to fall asleep and still trying to make amends for making everyone angry yesterday on the wall, he lets everyone else get plenty of sleep.
mik aka "Silly, spotted boy with clicky ears"


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## Xath (May 19, 2004)

Xath has taken the time to use her rope to climb up to the rafters.  There she meditates (until the attack that is) with the intention of relieving whoever's on duty after 4 hours of rest.


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## The_Universe (May 19, 2004)

OK--Archon's up during the first encounter.  Got it!  Thanks!


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## Archon (May 19, 2004)

*The Mule*

relieving Archon huh? that should be interesting.


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## Laurel (May 20, 2004)

Cool Archonus on watch with knock... now to see if he learned from the wall incident or not  
Um... dreams/thoughts during sleep are not directed outward correct?  So we can have the rings on, without waking people up right??  Just want to make sure  
On another note: Are we saying we planned our next step out before resting or whatever?  Or we just went back to HQ and split up into our areas?....  If we are planning are we just going to do that on Sat before game?


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## The_Universe (May 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Cool Archonus on watch with knock... now to see if he learned from the wall incident or not
> Um... dreams/thoughts during sleep are not directed outward correct?  So we can have the rings on, without waking people up right??  Just want to make sure
> On another note: Are we saying we planned our next step out before resting or whatever?  Or we just went back to HQ and split up into our areas?....  If we are planning are we just going to do that on Sat before game?



 I don't know about whether or not you guys are doing any major planning before the game, but I can answer the question about the rings:  

You can safely sleep without messing anyone up with them on.  There may be some side effects, but nothing negative in anyway--I might use a shared dream as a story point in the future, or something.  Cool?


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## Laurel (May 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> You can safely sleep without messing anyone up with them on. There may be some side effects, but nothing negative in anyway--I might use a shared dream as a story point in the future, or something. Cool?



I am fine with it, and would be interesting to see since you can't control dreams   Kareth dreams of happily being back in the ooze, and then we see the pain of us taking him out of it.  (J/K by the way)
... and L'Aurel would keep hers on, since she will be asleep (hey, she needs all the beuty sleep she can get!) at the time of the knock. Trusting her alarm and/or whoever is on duty (Arhconus) to wake her if need be.


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## The_Universe (May 20, 2004)

works for me.


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## Archon (May 20, 2004)

*did Archon learn?.........naaaaa.*

how many can i see out there at the time of the knock. and by the way, what time(how far into our sleeping) is the first knock? i think we've already answered this but you know me and that whole "thinking" thing.
and what kind of draconids are they?
the cute, cuddly, "hit me one time and i'll die" draconids?
or the bigger, "hey we got 'hero' points too" draconids?
Jus wonderin'
mik aka "Private Pickles"


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## The_Universe (May 20, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> how many can i see out there at the time of the knock. and by the way, what time(how far into our sleeping) is the first knock? i think we've already answered this but you know me and that whole "thinking" thing.
> and what kind of draconids are they?
> the cute, cuddly, "hit me one time and i'll die" draconids?
> or the bigger, "hey we got 'hero' points too" draconids?
> ...



 Note: *everything *has hero points.  I made that clear when I instituted the rule.  If you don't like it, then we'll remove them from the game entirely--the only way to prevent it from being unbalancing is to let everything have them, in accordance with their power level.  OK?  If you guys decide it's not worth letting the bad guys have them, that's fine--but don't bitch about it when you get smacked by the same thing you get to use. 

As for the knock, it happens 3 hours into the night.  halfway through the second watch.  However, it is a loud knock, so unless one of the PCs is an extraordinarily heavy sleeper, everyone is up (although perhaps groggy),  by the time Archon can get to a window.  

As for what kind of draconids they are, 1) do you really want to look out a window? and 2) roll a spot check.


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## Laurel (May 20, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> how many can i see out there at the time of the knock. and by the way, what time(how far into our sleeping) is the first knock? i think we've already answered this but you know me and that whole "thinking" thing.
> and what kind of draconids are they?
> the cute, cuddly, "hit me one time and i'll die" draconids?
> or the bigger, "hey we got 'hero' points too" draconids?



Since Arhconus never sleeps he doesn't have to worry about his thoughts escaping  and since awake he can always take it off, but when he hears something wrong he puts it back on.  And we will never know.  
As far as L'Aurel is concerned there are no cute and cuddle draconoids, just dead and soon to be dead ones  But she still looks at a T-rex and thinks don't kill him, he's just stupid and hungry.  He just needs a friend.


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## Laurel (May 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Note: *everything *has hero points. I made that clear when I instituted the rule. If you don't like it, then we'll remove them from the game entirely--the only way to prevent it from being unbalancing is to let everything have them, in accordance with their power level. OK? If you guys decide it's not worth letting the bad guys have them, that's fine--but don't bitch about it when you get smacked by the same thing you get to use.



I like them, I like them... they have done lots o' good.  I don't remember who used them and who did not, but figured if not now eventually this may come up:
When do hero points replenish?  Do we only get them returned after a full 8 hour rest?


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## Laurel (May 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> As for the knock, it happens 3 hours into the night. halfway through the second watch. However, it is a loud knock, so unless one of the PCs is an extraordinarily heavy sleeper, everyone is up (although perhaps groggy), by the time Archon can get to a window.



Good thing the wizard brad is gone... he was a deep sleeper and a loud snorer


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## The_Universe (May 20, 2004)

Hero points replenish after 8 hours rest.  So, if you were out after the last fight, you're still out.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 20, 2004)

Shared dreams are cool, I think... mysterious and interesting... *two thumbs up*


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Note: *everything *has hero points.  I made that clear when I instituted the rule.  If you don't like it, then we'll remove them from the game entirely--the only way to prevent it from being unbalancing is to let everything have them, in accordance with their power level.  OK?  If you guys decide it's not worth letting the bad guys have them, that's fine--but don't bitch about it when you get smacked by the same thing you get to use.




I like them.  I think they add an element of danger to the game for both the PCs and the NPCs... 

I like danger...


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## Archon (May 20, 2004)

*i like the idea of shared dreams. even if Archon is terrified at the possibility.*

shared dreams huh? *looks around nervously* is there a range on that? and if we're not wearing the ring can we still be affected?
jus wonderin'
mik aka "the underthinker"


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## Laurel (May 21, 2004)

*too many assumtions, me thinks*

One could assume, the ring range is 30ft. for anything (thoughts/dreams). Since normally one has to project the thought out, only during sleep could 'random' thoughts be projected. One could also assume, though, that whoever is awake is almost like a window shopper, they hear what is going on but get the option of joining in or not where as the sleepers cant control it. I think it would be cool the first night, and since I doubt any of our characters know what it would/could do why not  
Obviously though if someone/whoever is not wearign the ring does not share thoughts nor would recieve them.  So if Kareth does not have the ring on, but dreams nothing could be transmitted to us.  And if Arhconus is not wearing the ring he also would not be able to recieve the thoughts...
Plus we have an oath bonding us together and now we have rings too... hehehe funny thoughts... and lots of twists the universe can have with it... 
Okay over analyzing done with... back to Dax finding she actually has more pasts then she thought


----------



## The_Universe (May 21, 2004)

Kat's got the right idea, here.  

I tried to post something to that effect right after I got home, but it got lost in the shuffle.  

The range is 30 feet, but daisy chaining is allowed.  I like the window shopping thing--very cool image in my mind.  Consider it stolen, Kat.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 24, 2004)

I have dreams...

I wish I was a snake.


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## The_Universe (May 24, 2004)

Crushing boredom taking over...need activity on...the thread...*gasp*...help me!  

....


*gasp* PIRATES!  *collapses*


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## Laurel (May 24, 2004)

hehehe... I really liked the dream stuff... it was cool... and helps with that character role-playing stuff   If everyone else liked it too, can try it again?


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## Laurel (May 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> *gasp* PIRATES! *collapses*



So the Universe is now a zombie at the command of the bluestar... oh, wait no king...


----------



## The_Universe (May 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> hehehe... I really liked the dream stuff... it was cool... and helps with that character role-playing stuff   If everyone else liked it too, can try it again?



 Absolutely--next time you get a chance to rest, we'll do it again, this time with Arfin included.  So, be thinking of another dream.   

I've given away too much!  By admitting that *I* was the zombie in the first adventure, and I control the king, you have learned the truth--that a CR 1/2 Zombie is controlling everything!  NOOOOOOOOOOO!  I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you damned kids and that dog!


----------



## Laurel (May 24, 2004)

Are we still in Chapter Four a Debt repaid?  Or are we on to vengence  And I have to say putting all the events while in Hyrwl/New Oceanus into story form is proving fun and challenging


----------



## Laurel (May 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Absolutely--next time you get a chance to rest, we'll do it again, this time with Arfin included. So, be thinking of another dream.



Darn another one... can't I just dream the same thing again, since she never got to dream the first one... I thought it was actually pretty good ofr short notice, and there is only so much that can be said for her   (J/K)


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## The_Universe (May 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Are we still in Chapter Four a Debt repaid?  Or are we on to vengence  And I have to say putting all the events while in Hyrwl/New Oceanus into story form is proving fun and challenging



 Starting with the planning for New Oceanus and ending with the boat-stealing operation, you're in "Chapter Five: A Hidden Kingdom."

Jaine's Arrival (and all the heritage drama with Preston and Dorn) is "Chapter Six: Homecomings."

Palace infiltration is "Chapter 7: With Enemies like these, who needs friends?"

There is a chapter 8 with some IC discussions (Jaine, Justice, Archon, etc.) called "New Flames"

Your entry into the city, and setting up HQ (and the deal with the elemental) is "Chapter 9: What Price, Survival?"

Scouting the City watch, Gelatinous Cubes, and the Sphere of Annihilation is "Chapter 10: The Ooze Queen of Nirvana."

Attacking the city watch (ie, the present) is "Chapter 11: Nothing Ventured..."


----------



## Xath (May 24, 2004)

*So Bored!!*

So...the chapter thing is really cool...

What's up, guys?


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## The_Universe (May 24, 2004)

I am pretending to work.  Watching family guy DVDs on my computer, while I assign things document control numbers.


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## Laurel (May 24, 2004)

I just got a piece of carrot cake... yea for office birthday's!!!  hey, it helps a monday go by faster 
document control numbers... hey I think that's too much fun for me... though the family guy watching is WAY more exciting.


----------



## Laurel (May 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> There is a chapter 8 with some IC discussions (Jaine, Justice, Archon, etc.) called "New Flames"



Anyone sharing with L'aurel/the group/the whole town any part your discussions from Chapter Eight? I just want to make sure no one is thinking 'hey I said that' or 'hey, I told someone that' and not have actually told anyone.....  

Random side note, but if Filmore's name comes up without Jaine around, L'Aurel would mutter under her breath something about not trusting some people too openly... That's it.

I need some sort of messenger service at work.....


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 24, 2004)

Done with my first official day at Applebees... oh joy!


----------



## The_Universe (May 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Anyone sharing with L'aurel/the group/the whole town any part your discussions from Chapter Eight? I just want to make sure no one is thinking 'hey I said that' or 'hey, I told someone that' and not have actually told anyone.....
> 
> Random side note, but if Filmore's name comes up without Jaine around, L'Aurel would mutter under her breath something about not trusting some people too openly... That's it.
> 
> I need some sort of messenger service at work.....



 Filmore's name, interestingly enough, has not come up in discussions with Jaine or Preston.  A couple of the characters have pressed Jaine on it, and one of the PCs knows QUITE A BIT more, but that's something for another day, methinks.  

On an in-game note, how are you planning on getting to the second floor of the City Watch building?


----------



## Laurel (May 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Filmore's name, interestingly enough, has not come up in discussions with Jaine or Preston. A couple of the characters have pressed Jaine on it, and one of the PCs knows QUITE A BIT more, but that's something for another day, methinks?



Cool beans, then L'aurel says nothing 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> On an in-game note, how are you planning on getting to the second floor of the City Watch building?



Just use our grappling hooks and rope (or if low enough just jump/climb) where the stairs where.... well, that's my suggestion at least.


----------



## The_Universe (May 24, 2004)

That works for me.  I was just curious--although it sounds like it may be a bit before we get to finish this little operation.


----------



## The_Universe (May 24, 2004)

A Story Hour for your perusal:  

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1559696#post1559696

A Kingdom of Ashes, a Story Hour by Kennon Bauman (The Universe).  Prologue is up.  More to come.


----------



## Archon (May 25, 2004)

*Abaddon, NM*

hey guys. i've got my own thread now. 
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89204
mik aka "The Mayor of Abaddon"


----------



## The_Universe (May 25, 2004)

If our hiatus is going to be super long, maybe we want to move the game day from Saturday to another time during the next couple of weeks?  Weeknights might work, as long as we are DONE by 11pm. 

What do you think?


----------



## Archon (May 25, 2004)

*expected*

sounds go to me.  but you probably new that already.
mik aka "the guy on the couch."


----------



## Laurel (May 26, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> If our hiatus is going to be super long, maybe we want to move the game day from Saturday to another time during the next couple of weeks? Weeknights might work, as long as we are DONE by 11pm.
> 
> What do you think?



I think we could try for it.... not sure what everones weekday schedule looks like.  I can get to NoVA as early as 5 most days.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 26, 2004)

For the most part, looks like I will be getting off work at 4... but-- I don't have an actual *work* schedule, yet.  Just training...


----------



## The_Universe (May 26, 2004)

Well, we wouldn't be able to play until next week at the earliest...and I can't probably get home until 5:30 (and that's if I shorten my lunch considerably).  WHat's everyone else think?


----------



## Laurel (May 27, 2004)

*Brought to you by Snapple*

'Real Fact' #163:
The first penny had the motto "Mind your own business"


----------



## Xath (May 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> 'Real Fact' #163:
> The first penny had the motto "Mind your own business"




Man, guess we really don't have anything to talk about...do we...


----------



## Laurel (May 28, 2004)

*Hard to work with no one here....*

Well... Boredom at work the past two days :-( and no one an the boards... so I had to put up somethin'

and it was that or this: If we had an elimination competition, who would you pit your character against first and which two do you think would make it to the final round?


----------



## Xath (May 28, 2004)

This would be just for the heck of it and without any emotional attachments.

It depends on where the battle is.  Xath doesn't really stand a chance against anyone inside a building.  But outside, I'd probably take Arfin first as he doesn't have a real ranged weapon.  Alter Self and fly into the air, then lightning bolt him from afar.  Cheap? Yes.  Effective?  Yes.

As for who makes it to the final round.  It depends, Is there time to rest between battles?  Because otherwise, the spellcasters are at a severe disadvantage.  Would Xath make it to the final round?  Most likely not.  Not without a severe stroke of luck.


----------



## Laurel (May 28, 2004)

*I just wanna leave...*

For purely battle tactics:
L'aurel loose really fast in tight spaces.
L'aurel loose not so fast wooded area.
hehehe.... her against Farathier. Hey the most comabat similar, and she actually has a slight advantage there at least.

If Xath had a high enough strength: She puts her hand out pressing it to his forhead. Thus stopping his charge, but with her long arms he can not reach her. So he is left waving the weapon until he thrown it  Okay, well it looks funny in my head!!!

As for the last round, I see Kareth and Arhconus lost to in a blur of hand to hand combat. Arhconus with swords, Kareth with just his mighty fists.


----------



## Xath (May 30, 2004)

Posting because I think our lack of posts is really sad.  Or it means we all have lives...except for me because I'm posting...


----------



## The_Universe (May 30, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well... Boredom at work the past two days :-( and no one an the boards... so I had to put up somethin'
> 
> and it was that or this: If we had an elimination competition, who would you pit your character against first and which two do you think would make it to the final round?



 I think in order to make a "Tournament of Champions" fair, the first round would have to be a random draw.  You'd also want to include a few extra people from the NPC pool, to round out the capabilities of the fighters in the tourney--as it stands, you'd all look essentially the same, being all fighters (except Gertie).

Medieval tournaments (the joust and all of that) are probably a little out of place in the setting, but duels for fun, skill, and entertainment could be a reasonable diversion.  Everybody does subdual damage, and you can set it up like Mortal Kombat--best 2 out of 3.  

As for my bet?  Arfin.  He's got the best armor, and a lot of hit points.

Second place would go to Archon, because of the Damage Reduction, and the Spellfire.  

Third?  Probably Justice. She also has a large number of hit points, and she can get in close without having to worry about attacks of opportunity.  

But, all of the characters would have a pretty close fight.  For instance, if it's a contest of abilities, and not just fighting, Xath could really take advantage of most of the PCs relatively low will saves.  

Neat idea.  When you're not trapped in Oceanus, I suggest going ahead and doing it.


----------



## The_Universe (May 31, 2004)

Just about ready to begin the trek back to DC.  Look forward to seeing all of you.  

Mik, if you check this, give us a call when you get a chance.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 1, 2004)

Stuck in Chicago.  Dammit all to hell.  Be back late on tuesday, rather than late on monday.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> duels for fun, skill, and entertainment could be a reasonable diversion. Everybody does subdual damage, and you can set it up like Mortal Kombat--best 2 out of 3.



Also good way to train soldiers  



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> As for my bet? Arfin. He's got the best armor, and a lot of hit points.
> 
> Second place would go to Archon, because of the Damage Reduction, and the Spellfire.



Forgot 'bout that.. so yeah Arfin would definetly get good odds


----------



## Xath (Jun 1, 2004)

Subdual damage?...awwww

I bet it's kind of impossible to do a subdual lightning bolt.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 1, 2004)

*'No blades, no bows, leave your weapons here'*

You may have to curb that blood lust just a little


----------



## Laurel (Jun 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Stuck in Chicago. Dammit all to hell. Be back late on tuesday, rather than late on monday.



Geesh Chicago's not that bad!  Glad you guys got home safely though.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 2, 2004)

Home!


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 2, 2004)

What's up this weekend? Are people free to play on Saturday? If so, I'd love to keep going with the adventure. If not, do those of us who are available want to play Mik's carefully crafted one-shot? 

Alternatively, do we want to try a short session sometime of KoA during the week? 

Let me know what's going on, and we'll start to build a plan from there.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 2, 2004)

I have just heard from Greg!  

The best man for the Rollins/Graham wedding will be in town on saturday, so I think we'll be a few people short of a KoA game that day.  Greg suggested *sunday afternoon *as a possibility, and there remains the possibility that we could get together sometime during the week, after work (for those of us that have it).

This also leaves Saturday open for Mik's game, if he can snag at least one more player.

Let me know what you all think!  

--Kennon


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm free all weekend... I've finally got a job that lets me off on the weekends! YAY!


----------



## Xath (Jun 3, 2004)

For those persons interested in my whereabouts.

I have rehearsal on: Days except Sundays:7-10pm Sundays:2-6pm

Friday
Saturday
Sunday
Monday
Wednesday
Friday
Saturday
Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday

Performances follow on Friday, Saturday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 3, 2004)

If I understand you correctly, you are free next tuesday (6/8), and next thursday (6/10)? After that, you're booked up solid until you are no longer pretending to be a member of the reduced shakespeare company?  

Let me know if I have that right ASAP. 

Also, for those interested, the story hour has been updated.  Prologue Part II - Justice (The Paladin's Tale).  If you check the thread, and know someone who does not, kindly direct them to the link.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 4, 2004)

so.....


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 4, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> so.....



 SOPHOMORE YEAR!


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 7, 2004)

I am going to have a reasonably large amount of time on my hands this week, so PLEASE post.  I miss messageboard traffic.  *sniffle*


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 7, 2004)

On another note, I was confused earlier today.  As it turns out, Liz is actually ok to play on tuesday night, should we so desire.  

We can either press forward with KoA, or play Mik's much anticipated ACTION! game.  

Let me know what you think/if you're available.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 7, 2004)

On another, completely different note:

Jeremiah, please send me the aforementioned Kaereth stuff as soon as you get a chance.   

Thanks!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> On another note, I was confused earlier today.  As it turns out, Liz is actually ok to play on tuesday night, should we so desire.
> 
> We can either press forward with KoA, or play Mik's much anticipated ACTION! game.
> 
> Let me know what you think/if you're available.



 Indeed, so long as we have finished playing by 11pm, I am fine with playing on weekdays... sure, it means that we won't have nearly as much play time as we generally do on a Saturday, but, it may motivate us to get more done in a short period of time..

... or so we can hope.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> On another note, I was confused earlier today. As it turns out, Liz is actually ok to play on tuesday night, should we so desire.
> We can either press forward with KoA, or play Mik's much anticipated ACTION! game.
> Let me know what you think/if you're available.



Well, that would make one more for whatever game. 
Agreement on mandatory latest 11pm cut-off time.
As for tuesday can NOT say a definate yes yet, but can say a tentative yes.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 7, 2004)

Cool beans.  If we can get Gertie or Jeremiah (or even better, both) we're ok to go on with KoA, but I will happily yield the swivel chair of GM-ocity to Mik for the evening if he so desires.  He and I will hash it out, and let you know.  

Additionally, what does everyone's weekend schedule look like?  Are we out another weekend, or does this one look good?


----------



## Laurel (Jun 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Additionally, what does everyone's weekend schedule look like? Are we out another weekend, or does this one look good?



Sat. from 2-3pm is the Jazz thing w/Kaela, and as of right now I think that is it  Also,
THANK YOU!!!!!! to everyone for Friday   Hope you had lots o' fun like I did.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 7, 2004)

It was a pleasure to help you celebrate your birthday!   

Also, if we play on Saturday, we'll need to start after 3?

Let me know.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It was a pleasure to help you celebrate your birthday!
> 
> Also, if we play on Saturday, we'll need to start after 3?
> 
> Let me know.



Actually 3:30 should be fine for me at least.  My thing ends at 3pm, but it's near by.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 8, 2004)

There are some things that I would like to do Saturday... but, I can sacrifice them if y'all can't play on Sunday.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 8, 2004)

cool beans.  Not sure what's up with Liz and I yet--as soon as we no more, one of us will post it.  Otherwise, see you guys tonight!

Kaereth's intro is almost done.  Barring disaster, I expect to post it tomorrow.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 8, 2004)

Prologue part III - Kaereth (The Monk's Tale) has been posted.  Happy reading.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 8, 2004)

*Treasure!*

3200 GP
10 Gems (1910)
Boots of the Winterlands
Dust of Disappearance 
Potion of Cure Light Wounds
1st level Pearl of Power
Potion of Invisibility
Wand of Mirror Image (47 Charges)
Rod of Enlarge (Metamagic)

You find the above on the bodies of the fallen in level 1 of the City Watch.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 8, 2004)

*Who would be the most likely to steal from our group?*

Anyone declaring anything?  Or can we just have Xath put it in the bag o' holdin' aka-Gerti gets to add it our pile for now?

"_Rod of Enlarge (Metamagic)" _I just have to say... ew.... oh wait sorry picking mind up out of gutter now.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Prologue part III - Kaereth (The Monk's Tale) has been posted. Happy reading.



Looks cool... hehe... happy air...


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 8, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Anyone declaring anything?  Or can we just have Xath put it in the bag o' holdin' aka-Gerti gets to add it our pile for now?
> 
> "_Rod of Enlarge (Metamagic)" _I just have to say... ew.... oh wait sorry picking mind up out of gutter now.



 No no no!  You're thinking of the rod of splendor!


----------



## Xath (Jun 8, 2004)

Ooh Ooh, let's use the wand of enlarge on Syvattagor!!!!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 8, 2004)

Are people planning to eat before they get here or order when they get here or cooking when they get here?

Realize this is a little late... but, I didn't even know that people WERE coming over until after 10 last night...

Not a problem, though.  I'm full of ideas!


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

Great job last night!

Now, make with the planning!


----------



## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Here's what some NPCs would suggest:
> 
> Approximately 48 hours after your palace experience, you travel on foot (or horse or griffon) to somewhere just beyond the edge of the no man's land. You choose a point of attack, and an agreed upon rendezvous on the other side of the wall.
> 
> ...



check


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Once into the city proper, initial scouting must focus on locating a temporary headquarters. HQ should be small, out of the way, defensible, and easily hardened against casual patrols and inspection. You'll need to hide right under their noses. Remember, undead, saurian creatures like Yoshi, and Wyverns all roam the area at will, so combat may be unavoidable. Should this be the case, speed and efficiency will be the watchwords of the day--be ruthless, and efficient, and above all, have your results, but not your persons be noticed. Silent weapons are a must--no steeldrakes except as a last resort, here. Justice will have to show restraint with her turning--it is a powerful tool, but easily observed...as long as ity can be done in secret, use it with impugnity.



Check -reminder the silence aspect...



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> One of the objectives of this mission is to strike a little bit of fear into our enemies, so any draconids must be made an example of--if the bodies are to be found, they must be terrible, indeed, to strike fear into the hearts of these black-hearted creatures.



Check to the ones on the walls and the ones we burned-- we need to keep the call card thing going



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> After establishing an HQ for further operations, several scouting attempts must be made, all while maintaining a low profile. Primarily, some attempt to map the extent of the sewers must be made--they could serve as a useful tool, indeed. If they are even half as well designed as the city streets, you'll have a veritable network of tunnels from which you may operate, unless the draconids have already taken advantage of them. If they have, you'll find out about it during this part of the mission. Once the undercity has been scouted, a secondary operation must be initiated. For our purposes, we'll call it Operation: Pet Rock (this is the planar ally plan). Communication and supply lines must be established between our forest stronghold, and whatever control point we possess in the city. Operation Pet Rock allows us to do so quickly, quiety, and without notice.



Check



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> After casing the sewers (or lack thereof), and connecting Oceanus HQ with Forest Base, the next effort must focus on observing movements and major choke points within the city. Where are the draconids sleeping (if indeed they sleep)? How many are gathered in what locations? Do they move in specific patterns? Are they preparing to move? If so, where? During this mission, any time targets of opportunity present themselves, they should be taken, and made an example of. Choose a calling card, and begin to leave it everywhere you have infiltrated.



Still lots of questions unanswered- are there other primary holding places for elves? are they doing timed scouting through the city? Are they concentrating in one area? What is Syvatagor up to? Do the troops sleep? Do they congregate in one area? etc. etc.  
??Basically it comes down to what are we focusing on??



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> After having identified major choke points, a secondary (or is it tertiary by now?) plan must be made to hit, and severely damage at least one such point. Your goal must be to hit a target of importance, and wreak such havoc that it will cripple this arm of the invasion, at least until further reinforcements can arrive (or be created). Little planning can be made on this option until our initial intelligence needs have been met. If the target identified requires a larger strike force, acquire and brief said force. Speed will be of the essence, and those people we have trained will be standing by to assist should they be necessary.
> 
> Once at least one major target has been hit and disabled (destroyed is preferable), we will have momentary freedom to act while the enemy is off balance. Those of our kin that have already been taken to the palace must be assumed to already be lost to the clutches of our enemies.



check sort of... we did these in reverse order, got elves out now going to target and destroy part- 
Other Possibities: set fire to Docks, destroy Ships, destory big evil ship, Barracks with guards in there, destroy the towers along the wall, take down part of the wall, kill guards along wall, release the ooze into the city, use gorilla warfare and hit parties of guards travelling through city, destroy the statutes they are defacing/changing (hey, they are putting time into changing them so it is some thought there).... etc.



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> The city watch, now serving as a holding cell, must be hit, destroyed, with any free populace within returned to HQ, and through the results of Pet Rock, moved to Forest Base. Once out of the city, our supply conduit (and Oceanus HQ) must be collapsed, and made unuseable for the enemy, unless the resulting escape has been unobserved by the enemy, entirely.
> 
> With valuable intelligence on the undercity in hand, we ought to have the wherewithal for Pet Rock II, III, and IV (etc.) operations, and have several new allies, as well as new respect from our foe...at best, we can hope that they begin to fear us.



Check for first pet rock, check for new allies though damaged and weak, check they now think of us a little problem. Now to Pet Rock II, III, etc.



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> If Pet Rock becomes compromised, it will be collapsed from Forest Base, and escape will have to made on your own terms.



Can not collapse yet, do we have an estimate on how long freckles will take with that?
If we need supplies we can send our last pheonix captain to go there and bringing a small group with him return with the stuff.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

*Dibs on the whip *

On leaving Hywrl open to attack::
Do we want to set up some message system between HQ and Hywrl/New Oceanus? 
Easiest would be using companions... 
-Send note telling Farathier to use his owl? (I think that is what he had) for message through tunnel if they need help.  
-The regent can spend a 0 or 1 level spell and send a messanger to us.  
-Not sure the intelligence of Archonus' falcon? (I think) but could he guard and tell you, Archonus, what is happening back in Hywrl/New Oceanus? sort of every other day reports? 
-I may have HD slots for some small critter companion.

If we get a note and need to rush out: We leave and collapse the tunnel on the way. 
Depending on the force and need for speed Xath cast invis. on self then she flies (faster spees then running I think? Not sure how that works) out of Oceanus meeting us back in Hywrl/New Oceanus.  
Also, depending on what is going on, Justice can take Thane and 2? people.  We would just need one person (Kareth or someone with longstrider?) to go through and collapse tunnel.

If I am remembering correctly there is distance between Hywrl and New Oceanus...?... Hywrl still has its small wall and I have no idea how much of the wall New Oceanus has.  Issue being Hwyrl can not fit everyone with now even more refugees in the area.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

*Excellent!*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Still lots of questions unanswered- are there other primary holding places for elves? are they doing timed scouting through the city? Are they concentrating in one area? What is Syvatagor up to? Do the troops sleep? Do they congregate in one area? etc. etc.
> ??Basically it comes down to what are we focusing on??



This seems like a good first step in determining what your next operation is going to be.  You've got all of the above unanswered questions, as well as several targets (One's that Kat didn't list) that remain largely untouched.  

Living targets include Syvattagor, and Ahrianna Blackadder--taking one or both of them out might be a good idea.

Stationary Targets include the Tower of the Red, the Army Barracks, and (of course) the Palace.  Kat listed the rest that I can think of.  

Choose what you're going to pursue (you might evem be able to kill a couple of birds with one stone) and then start figuring out how you're going to achieve your goal.  Remember, as long as the Draconids are tied down in Oceanus, New Oceanus is safe(ish).  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Can not collapse yet, do we have an estimate on how long freckles will take with that?



He can probably collapse parts of the tunnels, already.  The problem is gathering enough Drakespowder to be able to knock down thirty miles of tunnel. 



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> If we need supplies we can send our last pheonix captain to go there and bringing a small group with him return with the stuff.



A set of ring gates have been set up between the palace in Hyrwl and HQ.  Paper messages can be transported back and forth instantaneously.  When the latest group of shadows arrived, they brought one of the gates with them.  It is currently resting on a crate inside the warehouse.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> On leaving Hywrl open to attack::
> Do we want to set up some message system between HQ and Hywrl/New Oceanus?



Ring gates have been brought in for precisely that purpose.    Thank Jaine.  Personal and Public messages can be sent through the ring gates.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> If I am remembering correctly there is distance between Hywrl and New Oceanus...?... Hywrl still has its small wall and I have no idea how much of the wall New Oceanus has. Issue being Hwyrl can not fit everyone with now even more refugees in the area.



There is a 1/4 mile distance between New Oceanus and Hyrwl.  They are well within sight of eachother.

Hyrwl still has the big masonry wall, and when you left, the packed earth wall around New Oceanus was being built higher, and Jaine was working on getting a wooden wall added to the top as quickly as possible.  it's probably not even close to complete--you've only been gone a couple of days.  But, it was being built when you left.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

*companion issues*

For me to get another companion it needs some intelligence, so I will be calling? (still figuring this out) one of the following options:
4 bats (fly=40 ft.)
4 ravens (fly=40 ft.)
1 eagle (fly=80 ft.)
1 hawk (fly=60 ft.)
1 owl (fly=40 ft.)

Sorry, really limited since I used most all of the slots on good ol' giant eagle who is hopefully just sitting/flying/taking playful pecks at Yoshi back in Hywrl.

Rules question:: Does fly multiply by something for going in a straight line as fast as they can? Like our running speed change if all out sprint?


----------



## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> A set of ring gates have been set up between the palace in Hyrwl and HQ. Paper messages can be transported back and forth instantaneously. When the latest group of shadows arrived, they brought one of the gates with them. It is currently resting on a crate inside the warehouse.



Sorry posted too fast... got ahead of myself :-(


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

*The Statuary*

In the course of the Shadows scoutings, they reveal that both of the statues have been uncovered since the last time you checked.  

Where the great white marble statue of the Amastacia once stood, arms outstretched in welcome to the travelers of the placid sea, a new, darker visage occupies her place.  Where once an open, pretty face shone to the sea, a shadowy, cruelly beautiful face now lies.  

Feathery wings have been changed to strangely curved leathery-wings.  Like a dragons.  

Tiamat. Lady of Shadow.  Where once the Amastacia stood.  


Across the city, just ahead of the palace, the Centurion King has been changed, as well.  The obsidion re-cut, the bronze armor reforged, blackened.  A twistingly human face now occupies the statue, and the armor has two great curving dragons on the breast.  The greyclaw blade has become a scepter and longsword...

Mordred the Black.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Sorry posted too fast... got ahead of myself :-(



 No problem.  Companions work, as well.  You still may want to use them.  

Perhaps you could use the Shadows to set up a secondary HQ, and use the animals to send messages back and forth from HQ1 to HQ2?


----------



## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

*This is said sarcastically....*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> In the course of the Shadows scoutings, they reveal that both of the statues have been uncovered since the last time you checked.



I say we take some berries make a paste (red paint) then we draw blood and guts on the statues, chop off thier heads and leave our token red cloth tied to the staute somehow.  
Take that!


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## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

Might not be a bad idea.  It would sure piss them off. heh.


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## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

*See post #442 on PG. 23 for Universe's Map*

?Looking at the original map of Fallen Oceanus, the new legend would be?

Legend:
1) Docks, Upper and Lower
2) Navy Base (Mostly Demolished)
3) Amastacian Temple
4) City Watch (Now burned to rubble)
5) Centurion's Forest (Clear Cut)
6) Army Barracks- used by Draconids unknown purpose.
7) Greyclaw Palace
8) Tower of the Red (Outer Towers destroyed, main pyramid remains standing)
9) Apectan Cathedral
10) Centurion King Statue (now Mordred the Black)
11) Amastacian Statue (Now Tiamat)
12) Location great bone ship in harbor

Not on map, but - 13) HQ1
(From corner of North wall and West wall 3 blocks in and 3 blocks down???)


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## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

Looks good to me. Good job L'Aurel.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 9, 2004)

I like the idea of opening up a second HQ, whether for us or the SoP specifically.  It would definitely be useful as more SoP squads are trained (although I guess training is sorta curtailed at the moment?) and giving us more jumping off points for havoc missions in other sectors.
  I think our next step should be hitting some patrols/random bad guys at a point well away from our HQ, just to distract attention from other areas, before running a recon op on our next objective.  This might also be an ideal task for the Shadows once the SoP squad returns to full strength and we're ready to hit our next target.


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## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I like the idea of opening up a second HQ, whether for us or the SoP specifically. It would definitely be useful as more SoP squads are trained (although I guess training is sorta curtailed at the moment?) and giving us more jumping off points for havoc missions in other sectors.
> I think our next step should be hitting some patrols/random bad guys at a point well away from our HQ, just to distract attention from other areas, before running a recon op on our next objective. This might also be an ideal task for the Shadows once the SoP squad returns to full strength and we're ready to hit our next target.



That works for me. A fine refinement.  The question remains--_what_ is your next objective? 

Ambushing random squads doesn't count (although you can certainly do that). What's the next big-ish thing you want to tackle?  Is the next mission just going to be a _*spying*_ mission somewhere, or do you have a _*martial*_ objective you want to destroy or kill?  Do you want to set up something specific using the Rod of Rulership, or some similar device(s)?  Wands of Mirror Image? 

You can just give me a basic framework for the moment, but I want to make sure I can flash out anything that I need to before we start to play on sunday.  

Thanks Jeremiah, and thanks gang!


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## AIM-54 (Jun 9, 2004)

As far as objectives go, my $0.02 are for either the barracks, which we've already discussed or the Mage Tower.  The Mage Tower could have all kinds of things which it would be bad for the draconids to get...of course, if there is anything useful, it'll probably be pretty tough and we may not be optimized for such a task.  Just some thoughts, though.


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## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I like the idea of opening up a second HQ, whether for us or the SoP specifically. It would definitely be useful as more SoP squads are trained (although I guess training is sorta curtailed at the moment?) and giving us more jumping off points for havoc missions in other sectors.
> I think our next step should be hitting some patrols/random bad guys at a point well away from our HQ, just to distract attention from other areas, before running a recon op on our next objective. This might also be an ideal task for the Shadows once the SoP squad returns to full strength and we're ready to hit our next target.



I like.

We have only been gone a few days at this point, but we could send notice for Farathier to continue training, the lesser SoP.  Are we even close to another squad being ready?  Sorry this was you guys 
Sending SoP for the hit and run very good.  They can then pick and choose thier targets.  They will be given the cloth for markers, so we are all leaving the same marks.
All about HQ2.  This way we split.  They can be checking in there, dropping off any prisoners and getting them safley back and we just get a message every day... every hour on thier status/plan.  If something goes wrong for them, they send us message, go through tunnel and collapse it.  We find another way out.

Can we do a decoy HQ on the other side of the city.  Put bad plans there, kill things in that area leaving our mark make it seem like we are or where there recently.  Maybe a very bad idea, but...


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## Laurel (Jun 9, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> As far as objectives go, my $0.02 are for either the barracks, which we've already discussed or the Mage Tower. The Mage Tower could have all kinds of things which it would be bad for the draconids to get...of course, if there is anything useful, it'll probably be pretty tough and we may not be optimized for such a task. Just some thoughts, though.



I would say our next target should be Savatagor or the Army Barracks-
First recon: 
On Syvatagor what is he doing does he have a schedule, typical roads he has to stick to due to his size, lots of things I will never think of...
On the Barracks, why are the draconids using it and for what? Are their guards? Who goes in and out? Are there any elves seen going in or out?

Mage tower very good option too... again though I would say some recon- are they doing anything there, are there elves around, are their draconids, does anything/anyone go in or out, do they seem to be guarding it, do they seem to avoid it.... etc.


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## Archon (Jun 9, 2004)

*knowing when to fold*

these all seem like great ideas and i'm all for'em, but i still think to save the people of Hyrwl and New Oceanus, they need to be farther away. the more we anger Blackadder the more we make Hyrwl a target. 
how do we protect the people best? That should be the big question. and i think taking them far away, as far as Sylvanus, is the safest course of action.
we are slowly doing more and more damage to Blackadder. but at what cost?
what might she do in retaliation?
i'd not like to goad her and find out. i'd rather retreat to a safer staging point regroup, train, and recruit. then when we are strong we take the fight back to Blackadder. in the meantime we can venture to The Isle of Mourning and try and get a spirit blade for ourselves so we are doing something to slow down the tide of darkness as we regroup.
i understand that we are all set on Oceanus, and i will serve loyaly past death.but i wanted my/Archon's opinion heard.
mik aka "adidas?"


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## The_Universe (Jun 9, 2004)

A good point, Mik.  Give the idea some flesh, and you might have some takers in the group.    

_But_, the problem with this, as I hinted last night, is that no amount of activity is going to make New Oceanus any more or less attractive as a target.  You know they're already planning on attacking it.  The only thing you _don't_ know is what they're waiting for.  

Don't get me wrong--Blackadder is evil, and powerful...but it's not like you're going to escape the attention of the serpentblood entirely by trying to leave.

If you do decide to leave the current encampment, make sure that you can actually reach your destination, and make sure that you won't just be bringing the wrath of the draconids to a whole new place.


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## Xath (Jun 10, 2004)

We have ring gates??? Awesome.  This provides an advantage, sort of, if one (several) of us ever need to get back to Hyrule instantantly.  Gaseous form lets you slip through the smallest cracks and while you are gaseous, you weigh a miniscule amount.  So for 3 people, that wouldn't cap the maximum weight transfer.  And then for up to 5 people, with the ring of spell storing, i can alter self them into small creatures and they can use the dc 13 escape artist check to get through the ring.  Reducing in size knocks weight to an eighth of normal.  So we should be able to get the party -1, +2 shadows, back to hyrule instantaneously.  I say party -1 because someone has to take care of the ring gate.

Also, since we have these, could we now replenish items?  

I was thinking that it would be really easy to put the statues back to normal with a few enlarged scrolls of stone shape (cast by randall or cawys) and a few potions of invis and greater invis.  We could even hit both statues at the same time.

Basically, it works like so.  Justice, Xath, and possibly L'Aurel have the ability to use a scroll of stone shape (can L'Aurel cast 3rd level spells?).  So, we use the sewers to get to the appropriate area.  A potion of invisibility made by randall or cawys lasts 15 min.  The spell cast by Xath lasts 11.  Plenty of time.  Once we get up to the statue, quaff a potion of Greater Invisibility (lasts 15 rounds if made by randall or cawys) Plenty of time.  Then we use the scrolls of stone shape (and our memories of the previous statues) to change the hideous monstrosities into their original (and better) forms.  

I'd say only the spell caster should go to the statue.  If certain people *cough**cough* Archon *cough* have an issue with this, they can come as far as the sewers in case anything goes wrong.  But with fewer people leaving the sewers, there is less of a chance for getting caught.

Also.  For the purposes of scouting and gaining information, Xath has an edetic memory and can memorize pages of information, so that we can have the information without letting them know we have the information.

We have a desperate need for information.  They have spies all over our encampment and we don't know what they know that we need to know, and what we know that they now know because we know.  Know.  

I understand that we need to help the people of New Oceanus.  But the question has been raised, where and how will we fight our battles?  The answer is ours to choose...for now.  But we need to act quickly or we will lose our edge.

And a bit of IC talking to round out the evening: 

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1591474#post1591474


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 10, 2004)

{IC}

Archonus makes a valid point, friends.  The people of Hyrwl look to us for leadership and hope-- if they are attacked and we are not there to attempt to save them, they have not only lost their city, they have lost much much more.
Moving the people farther away may be a tedious task but, it is not one we need to sacrifice our current mission to do.

Archonus, this is your idea-- how would you see it fulfilled?  Is it possible to execute without our immediate, physical attention in the city?


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## The_Universe (Jun 10, 2004)

As a reminder, we have a seperate thread for in-character discussions.  

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86294

I encourage you to move the IC (In character) stuff over there, and keep the OOC (Out of Character) stuff over here.  This is the place for the players to plan, and the other thread is a good place for the characters to discuss when we can't do it in person.    Hopefully, this will make it a little harder to lose an important post in the 50-odd pages of posts we have.


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## Laurel (Jun 10, 2004)

*Um... did xath loose the scottish? *

Just saw the universes post: Quote moved to our other board.
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1591540#post1591540


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## Laurel (Jun 10, 2004)

*OOC discussion*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, even stone shape, in the hands of someone who is not an artist doesn't do you a lot of good. You'd just end up with charicatures of what the statues once were. Secondarily, you have to ask yourselves if damaging/repairing the statues is worth the expenditure of resources. Are there other targets that need attention, first? Is there a significant strategic (or even morale-based) benefit to doing this?
> 
> However, if you DO decide it's worth it, Xath's plan looks pretty well fleshed out.



Good plan for the statues, though I have to agree that the time and effort may not be worth it.  Killing lots of draconids on the other hand  
Also, Simply repairing them to former glory I do not think would do much, they will just send a few zombies or such to make it the evil people again.  It was more a use what they had done and laugh at/be little thier leaders, trying to dent thier egos and moral.... by some very small portion....
I would say if we have time this could be a side thing, but shouldn't be a priority.


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## Xath (Jun 10, 2004)

I think we need to burn the bodies of the draconids we kill.  Otherwise, they can rise as undead, and we won't really be damaging their armies.


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## The_Universe (Jun 10, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I think we need to burn the bodies of the draconids we kill.  Otherwise, they can rise as undead, and we won't really be damaging their armies.



 Check for the city watch, then.  You shouldn't have to worry about any of them for some time.


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## Laurel (Jun 10, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Basically, it works like so. Justice, Xath, and possibly L'Aurel have the ability to use a scroll of stone shape (can L'Aurel cast 3rd level spells?).



HA! 
Nope... she can cast up to first level spells only. There was a concentration of lessons about fighting non-magically, but she is finally learning the ways


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## The_Universe (Jun 10, 2004)

Great IC discussion so far, gang.  Any ultimate decisions on what the next goal will be?


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## Laurel (Jun 10, 2004)

*One option.*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Any ultimate decisions on what the next goal will be?



Well, I can just make one:
1) SoP when able starts scouting from sewers spots for HQ2 and/or decoy HQ.  At the same time they can be scouting the other primary targets: Syvatagor and the mages temple specifically.
2) We take out the Barracks. Lots of enemies, and unknown purpose of them being there.
-Tell SoP that we are planing on scouting a hitting the barracks that night.  At no time is HQ to be left defenseless, and they should know to collapse the tunnel if need be.
-All of take sewers to street by Barrack doors and (much like last time) do some recon.  Kareth looking from opposite grate, Archonus from another.  Arhconus gets invis. and pass w/o trace cast on him, then do surface scouting.  Archonus giving us a play by play of what he sees and hears through rings (Sorry Kareth, but Archonus has the better verbal here).  Then meeting back up in the sewers, we decide right there the next course of action.
-If there is a regular guard change at front door.  We wait till guard has just changed then Justice in disguise (if need two then her and Xath) use rod of rulership to tell the guards everything okay, just bring some other in (purpose of bringing us in depends on recon info.)  We could then either kill the guards and post Xath or Justice there, or using rod rule the guards already there.  We need some option though as something/someone needs to keep giving all clear.  Just as last time someone needs to stay close to the front door, and we need to be very aware of how loud we and then enemy are during combat.
- If there is a side door, we can use the alleyways from behind and go through that entrance.  Hoping the first room is not crawling with creatures or we can silence them very fast.  
- Once inside we can either use Justice and Xath walkign in front as draconids with us just two steps behind or right around the corner ready to pounce and kill.  Or we can start in one room, cast silence and just keep luring the enemies in small groups into that one room for killing.
-Also while inside, we look at desks and chests. There is no telling if this building holds the offices of the lesser majors or commanders in the city.
-For Exit: As we leave the building start to torch it.  Then useing pass without trace everyone takes alleyway through back streets staying pressed up against buildings.  If we have the spells, invis. or postion of invis. for at least one person may not be a bad idea here.  They can take lead and report up coming targets or placed to hold position.  Since around the next corner there could be a whole squad of draconids or there a wyvern flying directly over head.
Then when blocks away other direction then HQ, we take to the sewers. Then we back track to HQ.


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## The_Universe (Jun 10, 2004)

Alright.  Cool.  For the moment, I will assume that the barracks are the next target.  Kat's done some preliminary planning.  Let's get it refined, and then let's kick some ass.  Huzzah.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 10, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I think we need to burn the bodies of the draconids we kill.  Otherwise, they can rise as undead, and we won't really be damaging their armies.



 I can do a little something about that, too.  Burning the bodies gets rid of the calling card.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 11, 2004)

The statues are a great idea but, not something that needs to be a main objective at the moment.

So, in short, Justice agrees-- the barracks are the best place to attack...

Now, we need to know, Universe, what is the daily routine like at the barracks?


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## The_Universe (Jun 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I can do a little something about that, too.  Burning the bodies gets rid of the calling card.



 Well, you can either start leaving flame retardent cloth, or leave the cloth _after _they burn.  Alternatively, you can start leaving the calling cards close to the bodies but not on them--the bad guys will probably still get the idea.


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## The_Universe (Jun 11, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Now, we need to know, Universe, what is the daily routine like at the barracks?



Up to now, there really hasn't been much of a routine at the barracks.  When we play again, you can either send the Shadows to do some preliminary scouting, or you can do it yourselves.  

After the burning city watch manages to catch everyone's attentions,  you can hear sounds of activity all over the city from HQ.  Something is happening, now.  Only time, and spying, will be able to tell you what.  Yet, you need to rest, to replenish.  The next thing I really know is when you're going to act.


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## Laurel (Jun 11, 2004)

If we send the shadows to scout then we can rest....


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## Laurel (Jun 11, 2004)

*wood floats... what else does it do?*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, you can either start leaving flame retardent cloth, or leave the cloth _after _they burn. Alternatively, you can start leaving the calling cards close to the bodies but not on them--the bad guys will probably still get the idea.



Cool, yep calling card still good idea   Just everyone remember with burning the bodies that if we are going for stealth, we may have to dump them in the sewers. Then return later and drag all the bodies to HQ for burning.  Or we just make sure all kills are in whatever building we are burning


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## Laurel (Jun 11, 2004)

*Archon's hope*

about the IC discussion:  If Arhconus wants any of us to go with his plan (since more then one of us have said we would consider it) we need more info.  
We all want what is best for the people it seems from IC and OOC, so if ya give us more we will listen to it.


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## Laurel (Jun 11, 2004)

PS- Standing in line without being able to sit down for over 6 hours may hurt the feet, but it seems you forget the wait and the crazy guy with a bike helmet when you walk into that rotunda... instead you just feel the honor of being there.


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## The_Universe (Jun 11, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Cool, yep calling card still good idea   Just everyone remember with burning the bodies that if we are going for stealth, we may have to dump them in the sewers. Then return later and drag all the bodies to HQ for burning.  Or we just make sure all kills are in whatever building we are burning



 Bodies that have been Annihilated, as well as bodies that have been dropped into a gelatinous cube cannot raise as undead.


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## Archon (Jun 11, 2004)

*"i've got better things to do tonight then die."*

you guys are right wherever we take the people they won't be safe. let's not worry about it. whatever Archon is thinking it's probably just worry fueling his thoughts. let's stick with the original plan and keep kicking arse.
mik aka "fortunate son"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 11, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Up to now, there really hasn't been much of a routine at the barracks.  When we play again, you can either send the Shadows to do some preliminary scouting, or you can do it yourselves.
> 
> After the burning city watch manages to catch everyone's attentions,  you can hear sounds of activity all over the city from HQ.  Something is happening, now.  Only time, and spying, will be able to tell you what.  Yet, you need to rest, to replenish.  The next thing I really know is when you're going to act.



 While we rest, I agree that the Shadows need to be scouting (if possible) while we rest... so, what can they tell us?

If indeed we are resting, maybe our next game just needs to be the series of random encounters that happen upon us while we are resting.


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## Laurel (Jun 11, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Bodies that have been Annihilated, as well as bodies that have been dropped into a gelatinous cube cannot raise as undead.



Annihilated.... why the capital A?  (Just seeing if I am missing something 
What if the cube is destroyed though? Then can they be raised as undead?
If nothin else the cube's are a great place to hold them... no smell or trace for anyone to follow, but they move slow enough we can find the cube again


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## Laurel (Jun 11, 2004)

*Just anoter option to the other one we had...*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> If we send the shadows to scout then we can rest....



Or we just go a ways into the tunnel and let them fight whatever while we rest.
Then we split up-them for scouting only on HQ2 and other targets, us specifically recon for City Watch and attack of city watch. 
While we rest one SoP can stand in hole, so they can call to us if they need help.
I like the first option better, but needed to put this out there.


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## The_Universe (Jun 12, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> While we rest, I agree that the Shadows need to be scouting (if possible) while we rest... so, what can they tell us?
> 
> If indeed we are resting, maybe our next game just needs to be the series of random encounters that happen upon us while we are resting.



 There probably won't be any random encounters at HQ during your rest period.  You'll find out why when we play again.   BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Also, you can have the shadows scout while you rest, but you'll just be waking up when we start again, anyway--it can wait until we play, as well.

For planning purposes, I'd take the defended places you've encountered so far (city watch, palace) and guess what the defenses of the barracks could or would be, based on that.  

However, as I said before, there hasn't been a lot of regular, organized activity at the barracks up to this point.  From now on, however...(only time will tell) .


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## The_Universe (Jun 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Annihilated.... why the capital A?  (Just seeing if I am missing something
> What if the cube is destroyed though? Then can they be raised as undead?
> If nothin else the cube's are a great place to hold them... no smell or trace for anyone to follow, but they move slow enough we can find the cube again



 Annihilated with a capital "A" because it's being done with the Sphere of Annihilation.  Hope that clarifies. 

Also, if the cube dies, I suppose there's nothing stoppng them from raising the bodies as undead.  However, the Ooze Queen should probably feed her subjcets.  Bread and Circuses and all that...


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## The_Universe (Jun 12, 2004)

Is HQ2 going to be a major part of the next thing?  It's not strictly necessary, but if you're going to try to do it, let me know.


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## Laurel (Jun 12, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Is HQ2 going to be a major part of the next thing? It's not strictly necessary, but if you're going to try to do it, let me know.



I'd say just scouting for HQ2 now, but that could change based on what happens next and the activity they see and such.


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## Laurel (Jun 12, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Annihilated with a capital "A" because it's being done with the Sphere of Annihilation. Hope that clarifies.



Little light goes off.


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## The_Universe (Jun 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I'd say just scouting for HQ2 now, but that could change based on what happens next and the activity they see and such.



 Awesome.  I can handle that.


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## Laurel (Jun 14, 2004)

*already large egos growing*

Yea! Two big bads down! Now for thier little army


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## The_Universe (Jun 14, 2004)

Indeed.  Congrats on your two very important kills.  Let's hope we can turn this small victory into a vastly larger one.  

Good luck.


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## Laurel (Jun 14, 2004)

So, on these black orcs?  Their skin changed after they did something horribly bad, or are they born evil with no possible redemption?


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## Laurel (Jun 14, 2004)

*Did we forget something...*

??Did we/could we take the ring gate with us to the forest??
One would hope so... but....


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## The_Universe (Jun 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So, on these black orcs?  Their skin changed after they did something horribly bad, or are they born evil with no possible redemption?



 Well, while one could certainly argue that they were born evil (a nature vs. nurture type of thing), these orcs have had their skin magically blasted black as a way to mark them as dangerous.  Orcs have really settled down quite a bit over the past millenium.  These are the orcs that haven't.  Considered the very worst of their race for unspeakable crimes committed, they are blackened and then banished to the wasted Southern Hills, where they are apparently able to eke out an existence fighting back trolls and other natural hazards, all while maintaining their generally despicable nature.

So, while they are theoretically redeemable, their own people have long ago given up on them.  That's why they're here.


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## The_Universe (Jun 14, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> ??Did we/could we take the ring gate with us to the forest??
> One would hope so... but....



 As far as I know, you have the ring gate with you.


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## Laurel (Jun 14, 2004)

see our IC discussion thread for a question to Archonus and Justice....


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

Still being affected by con drain (anyone else?), so less HP, L'aurel will be needin' some healin' as well... though Archonus gets hit first- he looks like he needs it a whole lot more   I just look like put my finger in a socket 
Also I know we have two wands, but with a small breather in here should we get at least one more wand o' healin' for the fight ahead?  
No sleep, so no spell rejuvenation.
We may have already done this and I just don't remember.


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## Xath (Jun 15, 2004)

We have the staff of Healing, which cures, restores, and blah blah etc. How much restoration does everyone need?


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

*Kareth can go without armor&weapons 'cause he is not a scardy cat like L'Aurel *



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> We have the staff of Healing, which cures, restores, and blah blah etc. How much restoration does everyone need?



 for Wand of Healing  
Off the top of my head... um 5 Con...   ::sniff:: and with con back min. of 30HP (22HP for the con and I know I took some damage)  I do not have my sheet here at work though so I can't give exact numbers sorry...


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## Xath (Jun 15, 2004)

For the elves in the barracks, we did have a plan for this eventuality.  That's why we bought the wand of seeming.  So the "draconids" would chase the "elves" to murder and safety.


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

*blackadder is definitely not going to like us now *



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> For the elves in the barracks, we did have a plan for this eventuality. That's why we bought the wand of seeming. So the "draconids" would chase the "elves" to murder and safety.



Well, I think we are out of time for the elves in the barracks (I admit I can be off on that), but we could still use the wand of seeming during part of the battle to add confusion we come in from one side seem a section of draconids on other side... I don't know... But of course we make sure we/our allies are not confused as well 

My concern was just for possibly gaining another healing wand as once the battle starts Hywrl/New Oceanus healers and mages will have their hands full, and we may be using all our spells/magic on attack/defense as well.  But I have no idea on the current charges of Xath and Justice wands, or if we have the funds to get another wand, or if we have a supply list already outlined


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

*From IC thread*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> Archonus, leaning heavily on Xath as she heals him



Lean on me starts to play softly in backround: 
_Bill Withers - Lean on Me Lyrics_
Sometimes in our lives we all have pain/ We all have sorrow/ But if we are wise/ We know that there's always tomorrow
Lean on me, when you're not strong/ And I'll be your friend/ I'll help you carry on/ For it won't be long/ 'Til I'm gonna need/ Somebody to lean on
Please swallow your pride/ If I have things you need to borrow/ For no one can fill those of your needs/ That you don't let show
Lean on me, when you're not strong/ And I'll be your friend/ I'll help you carry on/ For it won't be long/ 'Til I'm gonna need/ Somebody to lean on
If there is a load you have to bear/ That you can't carry/ I'm right up the road/ I'll share your load/ If you just call me
So just call on me brother, when you need a hand/ We all need somebody to lean on/ I just might have a problem that you'd understand/ We all need somebody to lean on
Lean on me when you're not strong/ And I'll be your friend/ I'll help you carry on/ For it won't be long
Till I'm gonna need/ Somebody to lean on/ Lean on me…


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## Xath (Jun 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Lean on me starts to play softly in backround:
> "Lean on me when your not strong..."




...


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

It is from Arhconus' comment from the IC thread... or is the '...' in addition to a look that I am crazy. 

PS- I added to the edits the post is really not important, just a random one....


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## Xath (Jun 15, 2004)

I'll leave that up to you.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 15, 2004)

Well, that was surreal...


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## Xath (Jun 15, 2004)

So, I fixed the sales and purchacing problems with the resources list.  And while I was at it, i reorganized it, which gave me some interesting, but worthless information.

If push comes to shove, and we need alot of money, we could sell everything in the bag of holding (not including the bag itself) pay off all of our debt, and end up with  187722gp.


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

*Liesten to the PC not the Player*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> So, I fixed the sales and purchacing problems with the resources list. And while I was at it, i reorganized it, which gave me some interesting, but worthless information.
> If push comes to shove, and we need alot of money, we could sell everything in the bag of holding (not including the bag itself) pay off all of our debt, and end up with 187722gp.



L'aurel- Sell the items and pay off the debt. We would still have enough left over to get some supplies and such for a short while.  
Jaine can sell the weapons and magic to the people defending Hywrl (soldiers, commoners, mages, etc.).
Hopefully this will also mean C. can not just horde it all 

Kat- A little debt never hurt a party, and no interest... what a great bank  Then Archy/Mik can continue to save for that special thing he dearly wants (sorry don't remember exactly, just that it cost a lot)


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## Xath (Jun 15, 2004)

Actually, we can pay off the debt without selling anything.  Hooray for money!  We just need an opportunity to pay Jaine back.


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Actually, we can pay off the debt without selling anything. Hooray for money! We just need an opportunity to pay Jaine back.



Ah-ha! I misunderstood sorry.


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## Archon (Jun 15, 2004)

*"Lean on Me"*

...enlightening.


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## The_Universe (Jun 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Still being affected by con drain (anyone else?), so less HP, L'aurel will be needin' some healin' as well... though Archonus gets hit first- he looks like he needs it a whole lot more   I just look like put my finger in a socket
> Also I know we have two wands, but with a small breather in here should we get at least one more wand o' healin' for the fight ahead?
> No sleep, so no spell rejuvenation.
> We may have already done this and I just don't remember.



 Wands of heal spells are also useful as weapons against undead.  For them, healing = damage!


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## The_Universe (Jun 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, I think we are out of time for the elves in the barracks (I admit I can be off on that), but we could still use the wand of seeming during part of the battle to add confusion we come in from one side seem a section of draconids on other side... I don't know... But of course we make sure we/our allies are not confused as well



Unless something big changes, the elves at the holding pens are probably doomed.  According to what Nightgrove told you before he bought the proverbial farm, they were planning on forcing them to march ahead of their army (as if chasing them), hoping to convince the people at New Oceanus and Hyrwl to lower their defenses long enough to try to let the fleeing elves in.  If they choose not to lower their defenses, they hope to demoralize the fighters on the walls as they watch while their former neighbors are either slaughtered or devoured, depending on what happens to be marching directly behind them.  At worst, they can use the pile of bodies to climb up the walls...


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## The_Universe (Jun 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Lean on me starts to play softly in backround:
> _Bill Withers - Lean on Me Lyrics_
> Sometimes in our lives we all have pain/ We all have sorrow/ But if we are wise/ We know that there's always tomorrow
> Lean on me, when you're not strong/ And I'll be your friend/ I'll help you carry on/ For it won't be long/ 'Til I'm gonna need/ Somebody to lean on
> ...



 This may be the funniest thing ever posted to this thread.  Kat, I salute you!


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## The_Universe (Jun 15, 2004)

Hey--you DO have enough money that archon could comission his Tome of Gainful Exercise!  And then some!

"And you know how I always said I wanted three pools with s-shaped hedges?  And you know how I always said I wanted my own disco room with disco dancers?  And you know how I always said I wanted two whole tennis courts? And you know how I always said I wanted an all-red billards room with a giant stuffed camel inside of it?  Well I got that, too...."


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## Laurel (Jun 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Unless something big changes, the elves at the holding pens are probably doomed. According to what Nightgrove told you before he bought the proverbial farm, they were planning on forcing them to march ahead of their army (as if chasing them), hoping to convince the people at New Oceanus and Hyrwl to lower their defenses long enough to try to let the fleeing elves in. If they choose not to lower their defenses, they hope to demoralize the fighters on the walls as they watch while their former neighbors are either slaughtered or devoured, depending on what happens to be marching directly behind them. At worst, they can use the pile of bodies to climb up the walls...



Too much creativity for evil people-- at least we saved over 400 hundred elves, not much in the grand scheme, but better then none....:\


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## The_Universe (Jun 15, 2004)

Well, there might be a way to save them, but probably not until after they left the city.  You're too far away, and events are moving too fast for that.  But if you can think of a way to save them, I say do it.  

You'll probably be looking at somewhere between 2000 and 6000 elves.  Can you get them inside the walls?  Only time will tell....


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## AIM-54 (Jun 15, 2004)

Without being the consummate ruiner of fun, maximum combat, it is unlikely that I can come up with something.  However, as the consummate militarist, at this stage I think our best plan is to open the gates for those elves that can make it, while simultaneously striking from the rear, hard and fast, with the intent of driving far into the enemy formation, in order to distract as many as possible from the escaping elves.  The success of this, however depends on several factors:
  1)  How the enemy is set up on the approach.  If they pause an hour or so out of Hyrwl to consolidate their forces and then effectively strike the city with the full weight of their forces, this plan will be somewhat more effective.  If the enemy forces are strung out based on the difficulties of moving thousands of soldiers over such a distance, then the rear attack will have a lesser effect as we'd be hitting the rear elements without having too much effect on what's going on at the front of the formation.
  2)They have these irritating flying creatures that can alert them to our presence early or otherwise screw stuff up.  We may have to trust our luck on that one, or have our magical assets concentrate on them to try and alleviate the issue.

  So those're my thoughts on the issue.  I'm sure someone else will come along with something better, more creative and overall less interesting to me.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

My only workable suggestion on the subject of escaping elves thus far has been dubbed (by me) "Heroes Last Stand."

In this, you use your varying flying creatures to drop yourselves ahead of the oncoming rush of elves within a short-ish distance of New Oceanus and Hyrwl.  Between your combat abilities, Xath's magic, and Justice's abilities to turn (and destroy) undead you might be able to hold them off long enough to allow at least some of the elves to get into the protection of the walls.  

The problem is that your chances of survival are inversely proportional to the number of extra elves you save.  

I dunno.  Maybe someone else will come up with something.  We _do_ have a bit of time.


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## Xath (Jun 16, 2004)

So I've been thinking quite a bit today on how to save as many of the 6000 elves rushing towards Hyrule as possible.  Why?  I was off of work.  And I gave several people headaches by bouncing ideas off of them.  I think my mom came up with a workable solution.

We teleport back to Oceanus and use our scroll of Summon Planar Ally to summon the Kool-Aid man.  We have him break through the wall of the barracks, and in the ensuing confusion, we free the elves.

The scary part about this is that it is actually magically possible with the resources that we have.  We could summon an Earth Elemental, use the wand of seeming to make him look like a giant beverage, and tell him what to say as he breaks through the wall.  Then we murder.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

Can an air elemental become a tornado and just sweep them up and carry them to Hywrl depositing them at the gates long before the army can reach there? Though it would have to be a really soft, but really large so they are not killed by ramming into each other as the hurl around at high speeds.... 
....
....I can now change myself into looking like a tree, wow what a spell....
....
okay so back to plans that may actually do some good...

When we scouted did we see what the bars at the barrakcs were made of (stone/wood/metal/bones)??


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## Archon (Jun 16, 2004)

*Archon's.....idiom?*

as awesome as the "kool-aid" plan is i tend to like the "heroes last stand" plan. 
predictible. i know i am. 
mik aka "Mr. Bruised and Sore"


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## AIM-54 (Jun 16, 2004)

The Heroes Last Stand, plus a correctly timed rear attack by the Black Orcs and a nicely bunched enemy army provides maximum confusion (assuming the frontal units are not all the big guys) _plus_ a bit of a morale boost for those on the wall seeing the heroes sweep a path of devastation in the cause of saving their brethren.  Makes a great image in my head.  I like.

Of course, if the enemy is more stretched out it might not work as nicely.  Either way, we should probably have some sort of teleport capability ready so that we can get out of there before we're taken out.  Losing the heroes at the beginning of the battle would probably be bad.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

I think we need to look into what can be done with a Gate spell or something along those lines.  Attempting to free them and have them run back to Hyrwl is unrealistic.  We need to find a way to teleport them/move them instantly to a safe location.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

Also, I apologize for not having more input.  Applebees leaves me almost completely exhausted by the time I get home...

I have an interview for a far less taxing job as a research assistant tomorrow... wish me luck.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

*idiom, sir?*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Can an air elemental become a tornado and just sweep them up and carry them to Hywrl depositing them at the gates long before the army can reach there? Though it would have to be a really soft, but really large so they are not killed by ramming into each other as the hurl around at high speeds....
> ....
> ....I can now change myself into looking like a tree, wow what a spell....
> ....
> ...



I believe it was determined today that you could summon only two elementals--a large and a medium. If I am reading the whirlwind rules correctly, you could transport 3 elves this way, and they would all be hurt by the trip. 

Creative thinking, though. 

As for the pens, you didn't get a good look at them. However, from what you can tell, it's just a big stone wall, with elves packed on the inside.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Of course, if the enemy is more stretched out it might not work as nicely. Either way, we should probably have some sort of teleport capability ready so that we can get out of there before we're taken out. Losing the heroes at the beginning of the battle would probably be bad.



Well, if the enemy is stretched out, it actually might increase your survivability.  It would allow you to take them on in smaller groups, rather than trying to take on a force of thousands by yourselves all at once.  

However, never let it be said that six warriors taking on a horde of thousands isn't a helluvan image for a fantasy roleplaying game/story.  

_Of this, the stuff of legends..._


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

At current, I am looking at the Gate spell... and, it would work almost perfectly for our needs... however, we do not have access to 9th level spells... SO, I think that we need a different plan.

I think, that if we are going to attempt to save the elves, we need to do it magically and, as much as possible, instantly.

And so, I propose that we will the Deck of Many things to come back in hopes that we will draw a wish card... oh wait... that's a terrible idea!

I have limited knowledge of magical stuff in DnD so, I'm wondering if there is a way, outside of a gate spell, that we can gain access to a safe plane to send all of the elves to for a little bit until it is safe to bring them back to ours?

Any ideas?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

I do have one other idea...

If, in this world, The Light is the only deity, we may be able to call upon It to open a gate to another plane because deities can do snazzy stuff like that.

I know that this option is not terribly likely (Kennon says, 5% or so) but, it is an option.  We may be able to utilize Preston/Dorn's ability to Commune to figure out if this would be a viable option... and, if it is, it can be off our minds... and into the hands of God... hence, our life becomes much easier...

Not likely... but, it would be really really cool, huh?


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

5% may have been an overstatement.  Be assured that there were thousands of elves praying for just this kind of deliverence for the 2-3 months they've been trapped in Oceanus, hunted by draconids and undead.  If the Light was in the habit of performing such large scale, overt miracles, it would no doubt have already happened.  

The closest thing to an answered prayer for these battered refugees is _you._  Remember the first line of the Warriors Creed of the Apectan Order....

_*I *am the Hand of the Light._


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

Then, I would say we should starting by finding someone who can cast Divination.  To be totally honest, I think opening the gates is a foolish foolish foolish idea.  The big bad evils put the elves at the front for two main reasons: 1.) disorient the people fighting in Hyrwl and 2.) to cause us to lower our defenses and open the gates so that they can run in and kill us all.
Seems to me that the Heroes Last Stand, though heroic and everything is EXACTLY what the evils want us to do... and, as such, seems like a silly plan.  However, if we can cast Divination, we would be able to tell if such actions truly would be as foolish as I think they would be...
~~~~~~~~~~
Divination
Divination

Level: Clr 4, Knowledge 4

Components: V, S, M

Casting Time: 10 minutes

Range: Personal

Target: You

Duration: Instantaneous 
Similar to augury but more powerful, a divination spell can provide you with a useful piece of advice in reply to a question concerning a specific goal, event, or activity that is to occur within one week. The advice can be as simple as a short phrase, or it might take the form of a cryptic rhyme or omen. If your party doesn’t act on the information, the conditions may change so that the information is no longer useful. The base chance for a correct divination is 70% + 1% per caster level, to a maximum of 90%. If the dice roll fails, you know the spell failed, unless specific magic yielding false information is at work.

As with augury, multiple divinations about the same topic by the same caster use the same dice result as the first divination spell and yield the same answer each time.

~~~~~~~~~~

So, Universe, can Preston or Dorn cast this to help with our little problem with the elves?


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

The Universe said:
			
		

> "Heroes Last Stand"
> 
> In this, you use your varying flying creatures to drop yourselves ahead of the oncoming rush of elves within a short-ish distance of New Oceanus and Hyrwl. Between your combat abilities, Xath's magic, and Justice's abilities to turn (and destroy) undead you might be able to hold them off long enough to allow at least some of the elves to get into the protection of the walls.



So this is the Heroes last stand some are agreeing to??
Well, we are supposed to be hero's and we do like to rush in fighting 
And two of us have undead as favorite enemies (well, at least one of us for sure)

With us cutting off and hopefully slowing down some of the enemy, what about having the regent make a wall of thorns slightly outside where the door would sit.  Thus giving Hywrl and New Oceanus time to shut the gate behind it.
The wall has archers, a cannon, and such to keep attacking, while we teleport to rear attack.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

Also, reading my wonderful present last night (Quin. Druid) and there is a huge section on Druid's abilities to access 'the other plane'... does that exsist in KoA?  It sounds like a dream/fey world...?


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So, Universe, can Preston or Dorn cast this to help with our little problem with the elves?



Well, it's probably not one of their prepared spells for the day.  But we will assume, for the moment, that they can cast it.  The question becomes whether or not you want them to spend a 4th level spell on _augury_ with a battle likely to begin before nightfall.  

And besides, I am not sure that even if you cast it, that I could answer the question.  It all sort of depends on how you set up such a thing, where, and how you all rolled once you got there...and all of that is a bit difficult for me to predict...


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The wall has archers, a cannon, and such to keep attacking, while we teleport to rear attack.



This essentially dooms the people on the forward wall, and gives the serpentblood control of at least one cannon on the battlefield.  But, it may buy you a bit of time.  Not a horrible idea.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Also, reading my wonderful present last night (Quin. Druid) and there is a huge section on Druid's abilities to access 'the other plane'... does that exsist in KoA?  It sounds like a dream/fey world...?



 It (or something similar) more than likely exists in some form or another.  I'd have to give it a closer to look to tell you more, though.  There is definitely a significantly connected plane of dreams to the material world.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

*If I got the plan right....*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> This essentially dooms the people on the forward wall, and gives the serpentblood control of at least one cannon on the battlefield. But, it may buy you a bit of time. Not a horrible idea.



Well, currently the elves are just going to be used as a shield then killed then the forward wall is hit anyways....
In the plan you suggested the forward wall hit as well, I was just adding one addition to helping get the elves through the wall with as little of the enemy following as possible.
And the serpent blood only gets the cannon if the wall has fallen... which means the poeple inside are in serious trouble anyways.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Hmmm...I think I misunderstood what you were talking about.  I was envisioning a single wall a few hundred to a few thousand yards out ahead of the gate into Hyrwl, with as many archers that can fit on it, and a cannon.  

Presumably, this forward wall will fall long before the normal, inner wall, since it can't be fully enclosed, and it will be an ad hoc construction at best.  

Is that what you meant, or did you have something else in mind?


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

*Hopefully this is a better picture....*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Hmmm...I think I misunderstood what you were talking about. I was envisioning a single wall a few hundred to a few thousand yards out ahead of the gate into Hyrwl, with as many archers that can fit on it, and a cannon.
> Presumably, this forward wall will fall long before the normal, inner wall, since it can't be fully enclosed, and it will be an ad hoc construction at best.
> Is that what you meant, or did you have something else in mind?



Basically, as they are getting close to Hywrl we have the city open it's gates. We fly in and land between (in the middle) of the elves and the army, telling the elves to run. With the knowledge of safty so close there should be some adrenaline boost- the last of someone's reserves possibly, but still...
We make the stand fighting as best we can, and let the mages start a more distanced battle with magic. We can cast some things like entangle to slow the enemy down a little, since six individuals will not form a shield to stop them from advancing.  Hey, my spells are not good for much in battle, so wasting mine and not others who are more useful may not be bad here.  The spell choice though was just the first that came to mind- there are lots of others.
The regent creates a semi-circled wall or a flat wall.  It is outside the city gates, but literally touches or is at max one foot away. The wall grows fast and would stop an enemy from being able to push forward.  THis allows the guards time to get the gates of the city closed.
The archers and cannon are on the main fortified wall around the city not out in the open. (sorry, I see how that was confusing)
Once we see the gate closed or wall up, get a shout or signal that this is done, or we almost die, that's when we teleport to join the rear guard battle. Or we have a small contingent set up in the forest on one side to close them in one three sides. Orcs in the rear, Hywrl in front, us with some others on one side. This would divide the army and the aerial soldiers from being able to focus on one target alone.
This last part is just agreeing with Jeremiah's options on still attacking from rear.  So as we land there has to be some signal for the rear attack to happen immediately.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

The regent would cast the spell below, it would not be a wall that would last long, but it only needs to remain to stop the enemy that follows.  If we are successful in slowing down the army, then he does not have to waste energy on this tactic.  It is only to allow time to get the doors shut.

Wall of Thorns

_Conjuration (Creation)_
_Level:_ Drd 5, Plant 5 _Components:_ V,S_ Casting Time:_ 1 standard action _Range: _Medium (100ft. + 10ft./level) E_ffect:_ Wall of thorny brush, up to one 10-ft. cube/level (s)_ Duration:_ 10min./level (D) _saving throw: _none_ Spell Resistance: _No
A wall of thorns spell creates a barrier of very tough, pliable, tangled brush bearing needle-sharp thorns as long as a human’s finger. Any creature forced into or attempting to move through a wall of thorns takes slashing damage per round of movement equal to 25 minus the creature’s AC. Dexterity and dodge bonuses to AC do not count for this calculation. (Creatures with an Armor Class of 25 or higher, without considering Dexterity and dodge bonuses, take no damage from contact with the wall.)

You can make the wall as thin as 5 feet thick, which allows you to shape the wall as a number of 10-by-10-by-5-foot blocks equal to twice your caster level. This has no effect on the damage dealt by the thorns, but any creature attempting to break through takes that much less time to force its way through the barrier.

Creatures can force their way slowly through the wall by making a Strength check as a full-round action. For every 5 points by which the check exceeds 20, a creature moves 5 feet (up to a maximum distance equal to its normal land speed). Of course, moving or attempting to move through the thorns incurs damage as described above. A creature trapped in the thorns can choose to remain motionless in order to avoid taking any more damage.

Any creature within the area of the spell when it is cast takes damage as if it had moved into the wall and is caught inside. In order to escape, it must attempt to push its way free, or it can wait until the spell ends. Creatures with the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered can pass through a wall of thorns at normal speed without taking damage.

A wall of thorns can be breached by slow work with edged weapons. Chopping away at the wall creates a safe passage 1 foot deep for every 10 minutes of work. Normal fire cannot harm the barrier, but magical fire burns it away in 10 minutes.

Despite its appearance, a wall of thorns is not actually a living plant, and thus is unaffected by spells that affect plants.

From: PHB & http://srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsTtoZ.html#wall-of-thorns


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

It's possible, but the regent can probably only muster in the neighborhood of 10 10ft. cubes.  

Additionally, remember that the Hyrwl gates are already thorn walls, and every additional casting may inhibit his ability to open and close "the gates."


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Also, remember that you probably don't have a lot of time to put these plans into motion.  So, some of the more elaborate schemes may not work as well as they could if given more time to prepare them...


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

*Tell me what errors or bad assumptions I have made*

Okay visually I had it wrong then- I was back to thinking it was a regular heavy gate that had to be pushed open by manual labor or gears... let me see if I have it right now:

Currently there is the mud/wood wall the people built around New Oceanus.
Hywrl is seperate though within visual range of New Oceanus and has the formerly seen wooden walls with trees at joints and the gate is actually just the regent casting a spell and dismissing it.
The army would hit Hywrl first on a direct line of attack.

If the above is correct then forget having the regent cast anything as I have suggested, as the gate closing and opening is all him anyways.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, remember that you probably don't have a lot of time to put these plans into motion. So, some of the more elaborate schemes may not work as well as they could if given more time to prepare them...



But we do have the ring gates and birds for messages to New Oceanus and Hywrl.  Also we will shortly have direct contact with the black orcs.  
But saying do this when this shouldn't be too hard  
Very correct on the nothing too elaborate though, just throwing things out there- I tend to get carried away


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## Xath (Jun 16, 2004)

Presumably, according to the plans we intercepted, they will be advancing along the main road.  How many creatures can walk abreast on the road?


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Presumably, according to the plans we intercepted, they will be advancing along the main road. How many creatures can walk abreast on the road?



15-20 abreast, but the forest is not impassible.  Therefore, they could advance in much larger groups, as long as they weren't really worried about maintaining tight formation on the march itself.  Theoretically, they'd have a chance to regroup before making a push for the walls, especially with Hyrwl occupied with elves and whatever is chasing them.  

Attached is a diagram of the Hyrwl/New Oceanus area, with red=gates, and grey = roads.  Black is walls.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay visually I had it wrong then- I was back to thinking it was a regular heavy gate that had to be pushed open by manual labor or gears... let me see if I have it right now:
> 
> Currently there is the mud/wood wall the people built around New Oceanus.
> Hywrl is seperate though within visual range of New Oceanus and has the formerly seen wooden walls with trees at joints and the gate is actually just the regent casting a spell and dismissing it.
> ...



 See town diagram posted above.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> See town diagram posted above.



Just saw it and printed it   Are all the walls thorn walls or are the internal ones regular wood gates??

Good question, Gerti!!

If they are in the forest though it gives us some protection/cover from the dragons and wyverns while attacking them. Maybe.... nope nothing there...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

Does anyone else think that it is completely foolish to do exactly what the bad guys want and open the gates as they march towards us?

Maybe I'm being overly cautious... but, it seems to cross the line between "heroic" and "stupid"...

Justice has no problem just getting plopped down in front of the undead and hammering away by Grandpa's side... but, at the same time, we are all full aware that the draconic army WANTS us to open the gates so that they can overrun our forces and eat our children...


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Does anyone else think that it is completely foolish to do exactly what the bad guys want and open the gates as they march towards us?
> Maybe I'm being overly cautious... but, it seems to cross the line between "heroic" and "stupid"...
> Justice has no problem just getting plopped down in front of the undead and hammering away by Grandpa's side... but, at the same time, we are all full aware that the draconic army WANTS us to open the gates so that they can overrun our forces and eat our children...



It really makes no difference, I would say- They have to know no matter what we do it is a hard choice.
We open the gates and hopefully get some elves inside. We leave the gates closed and all the unseasoned warriors on the walls see their brethren dying at their feet essentially and become sick and scared.
So we could always just mass slaughter the elves, then they don't have to be marched the rest of the way to Hywrl, the warriors in Hywrl won't see them tortured and we don't have to open the gates. We just make sure the people never find out... oh! wait aren't evil.... but... instead of opening the gates we could just have them scatter, and hope they live through that. 
Could we open a portal (someone mentioned this, Liz?) and just have them run into there instead.  It is not like they will do much good inside the walls of town.  They are starved, tired, and way out of shape to do much defense.
But this is just one take on it.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

Also... a measure that we can take to strengthen our forces is to take out the draconids evil horn of death before it's terror reaches the ears of those fighting on our side.

Don't need our archers peeing their pants.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Just saw it and printed it   Are all the walls thorn walls or are the internal ones regular wood gates??
> 
> Good question, Gerti!!
> 
> If they are in the forest though it gives us some protection/cover from the dragons and wyverns while attacking them. Maybe.... nope nothing there...



 The internal gates are walls of thorns, as are the outer gates.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Also... a measure that we can take to strengthen our forces is to take out the draconids evil horn of death before it's terror reaches the ears of those fighting on our side.
> Don't need our archers peeing their pants.



Tee-hee or Arhconus becoming smelly again... oh wait I have an even worse save!  

I could be in error here, but wasn't the huge horn Syvattagor's? So we could smash it while we are here make sure no one can take it from his body.

Or when we do the rear attack, have someone (Xath) be syvattagor and blow the horn on the approach... make it seem like he is just arriving with more troops (black orc are known to be evil) there to fight. Once on top of the army attack! 
Picture battle from braveheart only in reverse. "I told ye it was me isle" -the crazy, funny irish guy from braveheart.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 16, 2004)

*I'm not evil, really.*

Alternatively, we could take advantage of the obstacle that the elves themselves present to the invaders.  While it will of course not take long for the draconids to overrun them, it will take some effort and there will be some confusion as they make their run to the walls.  That gives us some extra time to fire into the bad guys, sow further confusion with the strike to the rear and any other tricks we come up with.  The more time we have to hit them without them being completely organized or coming up the walls, the better.  While it does abandon the elves to their fate for the most part, I think our resources are better massed for the real battle than to save some elves that may never be truly functional again.  Cruel, perhaps, but if we lose it doesn't matter how many elves we may have saved.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 16, 2004)

If Syvattagor had the horn, we don't need to worry about it.  But, if he didn't we need to destroy it or even some of us are going to be running away with wet spots around our bums.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

You have the horn.

If you want to know more, you'll have to spend the magic to find out.


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Alternatively, we could take advantage of the obstacle that the elves themselves present to the invaders. While it will of course not take long for the draconids to overrun them, it will take some effort and there will be some confusion as they make their run to the walls. That gives us some extra time to fire into the bad guys, sow further confusion with the strike to the rear and any other tricks we come up with. The more time we have to hit them without them being completely organized or coming up the walls, the better. While it does abandon the elves to their fate for the most part, I think our resources are better massed for the real battle than to save some elves that may never be truly functional again. Cruel, perhaps, but if we lose it doesn't matter how many elves we may have saved.



Not a bad idea- Just thousands of dead elf bodies does make an easy way to get an incline up a wall.... but that could be delt with by setting fire to them or some such, since we also do want them to die just to be raised right there....


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Not a bad idea- Just thousands of dead elf bodies does make an easy way to get an incline up a wall.... but that could be delt with by setting fire to them or some such, since we also do want them to die just to be raised right there....



Cripes this is getting grim.  

Letting them die and then torching them as they lay piled against your wooden wall may not be a good idea, for both structural and morale reasons. If you're not going to let them in the walls (or at least make an attempt), I suggest you do whatever you're going to do well out of sight from New Oceanus and Hyrwl. *shudder.*


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## Archon (Jun 16, 2004)

*At What Cost?*

or....we "Troy" it.  we put our infantry outside the walls with us and "filter" out the fleeing elves as they approach. we keep our spellslingers and archers on the wall to do as much damage as possible to their main force while we take their vanguard head on.
mik aka "micky"


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## AIM-54 (Jun 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Not a bad idea- Just thousands of dead elf bodies does make an easy way to get an incline up a wall.... but that could be delt with by setting fire to them or some such, since we also do want them to die just to be raised right there....




I have doubts that they'll die that conveniently.  Once they've sorta been let loose, they are likely to spread out somewhat and it's unlikely that, at that point, the draconids will be that interested in what happens to some of those elves, especially if we give them some other things to worry about, which is certainly the case.  Also by hitting them at range (cannons, arrows, magic), we'll be able to further degrade their ability to really control the stampeding elves.  Heck, if we give some of them the time and opportunity to run past Hywrl/New Oceanus, we may be able to save more of them than any other of our plans (save the resource draining, get them from the pens, ones).
  The plan would also to keep them busy with other things so that they don't have time or inclination to start raising dead elves.  Hell, if they really wanted to do that, they'd just slaughter them and raise them beforehand.  Much more efficient that way.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 16, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> or....we "Troy" it.  we put our infantry outside the walls with us and "filter" out the fleeing elves as they approach. we keep our spellslingers and archers on the wall to do as much damage as possible to their main force while we take their vanguard head on.
> mik aka "micky"




We'd get slaughtered real quick that way.  Our infantry is mostly relatively new recruits.  We only have around 800 regulars with real training and experience.  They'll be much more effective from the walls.  We could take some of the regulars and set up an attack from the flank to hopefully put some space between the draconids and the elves, but I think splitting our Hyrwl forces like that only makes us less effective where we need to be most effective.  Numbers and quality are not to our advantage.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

I could be wrong about this, but doesn't "Troy"ing it obviate the advantage of having a wall in the first place? That always bothered me about the myth, but it was largely based on the psychology and sociology of the time, a completely different kind of warfare than is now practiced. 

In this battle, it is unlikely that the bad guys will pull back and quit for the day if one of the major character's dies, nor will the more powerful warriors faithfully seek each other out on the battlefield...


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## Xath (Jun 16, 2004)

Xath can't become Gargantuan, the most she could become is Large, as multiple magical size increases do not stack.  So there will be no impersonating of Syvattagor.  Nightgrove, on the other hand....


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I have doubts that they'll die that conveniently.  Once they've sorta been let loose, they are likely to spread out somewhat and it's unlikely that, at that point, the draconids will be that interested in what happens to some of those elves, especially if we give them some other things to worry about, which is certainly the case.  Also by hitting them at range (cannons, arrows, magic), we'll be able to further degrade their ability to really control the stampeding elves.  Heck, if we give some of them the time and opportunity to run past Hywrl/New Oceanus, we may be able to save more of them than any other of our plans (save the resource draining, get them from the pens, ones).
> The plan would also to keep them busy with other things so that they don't have time or inclination to start raising dead elves.  Hell, if they really wanted to do that, they'd just slaughter them and raise them beforehand.  Much more efficient that way.



 Right.  If they wanted zombie elves, they'd already *BE* zombie elves.  They want them to entice you into lowering your defenses, even if only temporarily.  They are preying upon the very moral fabric of the Falcon Kingdom in order to achieve a strategic goal.

If they are herding elves toward the walls as Nightgrove said they would, they are almost certainly assuming that the defenders will stay within the walls, and allow the elves to be driven toward whatever point the serpentblood deem most effective.  If you can interfere with that in some way (ranged attacks are probably expected, so you need more than that), you might allow some of the elves to head into the forest, and escape _temporarily_ at least. 

Also, as clarification, these are not conveniently stackable elves.  They'll die in gruesome, inconvenient ways.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath can't become Gargantuan, the most she could become is Large, as multiple magical size increases do not stack.  So there will be no impersonating of Syvattagor.  Nightgrove, on the other hand....



 remember that you left your tunnel unguarded and undetonated--there's a good chance they have found his (Nightgrove's) body, although that chance is far from a guarantee.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 16, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, as clarification, these are not conveniently stackable elves.  They'll die in gruesome, inconvenient ways.




Is it bad that that quote made my day?  Hilarious!

Plus the image of conveniently stackable elves being manhandled into position by some poor stockboy.  Heh heh heh.


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Is it bad that that quote made my day? Hilarious!
> 
> Plus the image of conveniently stackable elves being manhandled into position by some poor stockboy. Heh heh heh.



Of course not. Stackable anything is funny. Just ask Gary Larson. 

As always, the line was written with tongue firmly placed in cheek. 

"Clean up on aisle 12!"


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

double post!


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## The_Universe (Jun 16, 2004)

No wait, make that TRIPLE post!  Huzzah!


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## Xath (Jun 16, 2004)

So, let's beat them at their own game.  We'll demoralize them better than they can demoralize us.

My thoughts go back to when Xath almost inadvertantly heralded the apocolypse when trying to free the people from being hanged by edriss in Hyrule.  There must be something equally terrifying for these dudes.

Let's compare notes.  What do we know about Tiamat?  about the shadow path? about the religion of Shadow?

For example, Tiamat and Oberon have been enemies since the dawn of time, as far back as the history of Aeres has been recorded.

Come on, input.  What could terrify the army of draconids?  The return of Oberon?


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

How long would a forced march take from gate of Oceanus to wall of Hywrl- at the worst?
Stackable elves.... heehee...
But it was more if they make it that far and get slaughtered from behind, and things do not go well for the enemy.  I wasn't trying to say they are planning this.  Obviously a group of ragged half alive elves are better for demoralization then the undead.  But they will use whatever they have to win.
Well... all my creativity for the day is over I think... sad I know and apparently not much help...


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## Laurel (Jun 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Come on, input. What could terrify the army of draconids? The return of Oberon?



He came back once why not again....


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## Xath (Jun 16, 2004)

Tiamat in this game borrows heavily from the celtic Morrigan, the Indian Kali-ma, the sumerian Tiamat, Morganna le Fey in Arthurian legend, and even Jason/Medea.

*Sumerian-Babalonian Creation Myth*

Ok, well, let's see what we can piece together.  There is some very interesting information on Tiamat to be found in Babalonian and Sumerian creation myth.  There is an interesting tale, the Babalonian "Epic of Creation--Enuma Elish" which was written around the 12th century BCE.  See what has been translated from the tablets here.

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/babylon.htm

Certain aspects of these tablets sound very familiar.  This is one passage as an example.

They are banded together and at the side of Tiamat they advance;
They are furious, they devise mischief without resting night and day.
They prepare for battle, fuming and raging;
They have joined their forces and are making war.
Ummu-Hubur, who formed all things,
Hath made in addition weapons invincible; she hath spawned monster-serpents,
Sharp of tooth and merciless of fang.
With poison, instead of blood, she hath filled their bodies.
Fierce monster-vipers she hath clothed with terror,
With splendor she hath decked them, she hath made them of lofty stature.
Whoever beboldeth them, terror overcometh him,
Their bodies rear up and none can withstand their attack.
She hath set up vipers, and dragons, and the monster Lahamu,
And hurricanes, and raging hounds, and scorpion-men,
And mighty tempests, and fish-men, and rams;
They bear merciless weapons, without fear of the fight.
Her commands are mighty; none can resist them;
After this fashion, huge of stature, hath she made eleven monsters.
Among the gods who are her sons, inasmuch as he hath given her support,
She hath exalted Kingu; in their midst she hath raised him to power.
To march before the forces, to lead the host,
To give the battle-signal, to advance to the attack, To direct the battle, to control the fight,
Unto him hath she entrusted; in costly raiment she hath made him sit, saving:
I have uttered thy spell; in the assembly of the gods I have raised thee to power,
The dominion over all the gods have I entrusted unto thee.
Be thou exalted, thou my chosen spouse,
May they magnify thy name over all of them...the Anunnaki.
She hath given him the Tablets of Destiny on his breast she laid them, saving:
Thy command shall not be without avail, and the word of thy mouth shall be established.
Now Kingu, thus exalted, having received the power of Anu,
Decreed the fate for the gods, her sons, saying:
"Let the opening of your mouth quench the Fire-god;
Whoso is exalted in the battle, let him display his might!"

A somewhat similar summarized version (for those who don't read) is below.

In Babylonian myths, Tiamat is a huge, bloated female dragon that personifies the saltwater ocean, the water of Chaos. She is also the primordial mother of all that exists, including the gods themselves. Her consort is Apsu, the personification of the freshwater abyss that lies beneath the Earth. From their union, saltwater with freshwater, the first pair of gods were born. They are Lachmu and Lachamu, parents of Ansar and Kisar, grandparents of Anu and Ea. 
In the creation epic Enuma elish, written around 2000 BCE, their descendants started to irritate Tiamat and Apsu so they decided to kill their offspring. Ea discovered their plans and he managed to kill Apsu while the latter was asleep. Tiamat flew into a rage when she learned about Apsu's death and wanted to avenge her husband. She created an army of monstrous creatures, which was to be led by her new consort Kingu, who is also her son. Eventually, Tiamat was defeated by the young god Marduk, who was born in the deep freshwater sea. 
Marduk cleaved her body in half, and from the upper half he created the sky and from the lower half he made the earth. From her water came forth the clouds and her tears became the source of the Tigris and the Euphratus. Kingu also perished, and from his blood Marduk created the first humans.


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## Xath (Jun 16, 2004)

*The Indian Goddess, Kali-Ma*

I found this one to be informative, yet somewhat more confusing, as many of the references made to Kali-Ma, are things that in Aeres are attributed to Oberon.  

However, if not many similarities can be found in the form of Tiamat and Mother Kali, the goals of the two are strikingly similar.

They seek the purification of the world, something which our characters have all heard about from those draconids who have experienced the Shadow Path.  For a more in depth text on Kali, click here.


Mother Kali is known as Kali-Ma, the Black Goddess, Maha Kali, Nitya Kali, Smashana Kali, Raksha Kali, Shyama Kali, Kalikamata, and Kalaratri. Among the Tamils she is known as Kottavei. Maha Kali and Nitya Kali are mentioned in the Tantra philosophy. 'Kal' means Darkness; Kali takes away that Darkness. She takes away the darkness from every individual who strives in the path of perfection by performing the spiritual disciplines of purifying austerities. Just as all the colors of the spectrum mix into black, yet still black remains black, so too, Kali, who is completely Dark, Unknowable, takes away all the Darkness, yet She, Herself, remains unchanged. 

Kali ("the black one") is the Hindu mother goddess, symbol of dissolution and destruction. She destroys ignorance, maintains the world order, and blesses and frees those who strive for the knowledge of God. In the Vedas the name is associated with Agni, the god of fire, who had seven flickering tongues of flame, of which Kali was the black, horrible tongue. This meaning of the word has meanwhile been replaced by the goddess Kali, the grim consort of Shiva. 

*And a short summary for those who don't like reading... * 

Her appearance is fearsome: baleful eyes, a protruding tongue, and four arms. In her upper left hand she wields a bloody sword and in her lower left hand she holds the severed head of a demon. With her upper right hand she makes the gesture of fearlessness, while the lower right hand confers benefits. Draped around her is a chain of severed human heads and she wears a belt made of dismembered arms. As the Divine Mother she is often represented dancing or in sexual union with Shiva. As Bhavatarini, the redeemer of the universe, she stands upon the supine form of her spouse. 

She is also known as Kalikamata ("black earth-mother") and Kalaratri ("black night"). Among the Tamils she is known as Kottavei. Kali is worshipped particularly in Bengal. Her best known temples are in Kalighat and Dakshineshvara. 

The strange thing, although unrelavent to the game, is that reference to Kali Ma can be found in modified Christian creationism as well.  Sheesh, I'm starting to get interested in this Mythology stuff.


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## Xath (Jun 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> He came back once why not again....





Well, one of the things which struck me about this relationship was that mythologically speaking, Oberon was the Lord of Elves and the Prince of Fairies, although this concept has been modified to become something akin to Father Nature in reference to the Kingdom of Aeres.  

But one question becomes, are only elves being taken down the shadow path?  Or are other races being turned as well as the draconic forces take over other cities?  Is there some connection between Oberon's mythological connection with the elves and Tiamat's vengence?  

Oddly enough, the Bengali-Indian goddess Kali-Ma is also known as the Mother Nature equivalent in certain references.


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## Archon (Jun 17, 2004)

*Sometimes people can surprise you if you let them.*

that made for some good reading. yup that's right, i Mick Ivan Nichols, aka "He Who Shall Not Read" read it all.    it was cool. but i don't think we can count on gods to help us. this is our fight to win or loose.
mik aka ....


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Oberon is a _nature_ lord with a significant tilt towards _good_ (in the game) while Tiamat has been saddled with certain negative aspects of the Kali Ma (destroyer, annihilator) and the mythological Tiamat (she-who-births-monsters, definite draconic connections) that lean her directly towards _evil_, with a focus on the _unnatural_.  Despite this, even the Kali Ma is an essentially neutral deity in myth (as are most). 

Soem interesting research on Gertie's behalf, but I am not sure we've ended up with a clear picture of how to react to a people that clearly revere the in-game Tiamat...

Ah, I do love ancient mythology.    Have fun guessing!


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

And if you REALLY wanted to metagame, you'd hit the Arthurian legends, because that's what I love best.   After all, Tiamat's son _is_ named _Mordred_.  The capital is named Caer _Albion, _and the entire last campaign was about _freeing swords from stones._

But that'd only work if you wanted to metagame.


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> And if you REALLY wanted to metagame, you'd hit the Arthurian legends, because that's what I love best.   After all, Tiamat's son _is_ named _Mordred_.  The capital is named Caer _Albion, _and the entire last campaign was about _freeing swords from stones._
> 
> But that'd only work if you wanted to metagame.





In my opinion, Google=Bardic Knowledge

I'm taking the iniative, because I really don't think you want to compile every reference to Tiamat, shadows, Mordred the Black, etc.  that Xath could pull out of her brain.

Know thine enemy.  I'm really trying here.  Help me not to metagame by telling me what I know.  I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that trying to piece together bits and pieces of Earth mythology would be roughly equivalent to trying to postulate theories of Tiamat and her followers based on myths and stories.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> that made for some good reading. yup that's right, i Mick Ivan Nichols, aka "He Who Shall Not Read" read it all.  it was cool. but i don't think we can count on gods to help us. this is our fight to win or loose.
> mik aka ....



Ivan.. huh... never woulda guessed that....


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

Ivan?  Really?


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

Double Post.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

*Arthurian myth....*

From the Mists of Avalon:: 
*Arthur*: I call on the powers of Heaven and Earth, aid me now! I call upon the God of Heaven, and the Goddess of the Earth, help me now!
*Viviane*: You call upon the God, and the Goddess? It is the Goddess who answers.


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> In my opinion, Google=Bardic Knowledge
> 
> I'm taking the iniative, because I really don't think you want to compile every reference to Tiamat, shadows, Mordred the Black, etc.  that Xath could pull out of her brain.
> 
> Know thine enemy.  I'm really trying here.  Help me not to metagame by telling me what I know.  I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that trying to piece together bits and pieces of Earth mythology would be roughly equivalent to trying to postulate theories of Tiamat and her followers based on myths and stories.



 Sorry if that came across as sarcastic.  I am perfectly fine with you trying to google out some answers to the mystery. That's why I was directing you to Arthurian Myth.  If tiamat is Morganna, than Oberon must have been...?

Anything from the Mists of Avalon can probably be ignored, though.  I *love* Arthurian myth, but I *loathe* Marion Zimmer Bradley.  She makes a perfectly noble myth a justification for incest, and...yuck.  It's like reading a freakin' Piers Anthony book.  *shudder.*  But that's just me.  I suspect _Mists_ appeals a great deal more to the female reader.   

_Mad Merlin, Celtika, the Pendragon Cycle, Serpent and Grail, Orion_, Pantheon.org, etc. (among other things) are my primary influences on the subject.  However, I have read _mists of avalon_, so something from that might have crept in there...

Anyway, in-game, remember that Mordred's statue is much larger than Tiamat's.  That may be just because Mordred's statue was bigger to start with, but it may also have a deeper significance.  The draconids don't strike you as being overly matriarchal, so keep that in mind, as well...

And to Gertie specifically: I am pretty sure I have told you everything that Xath knows abotu Tiamat, but there isn't a lot known.  She was a demigoddess of lies, and deception--not a lot of accurate public record as a result.  It would take some research and specific questions for me to be able to tell you more, within the reach of existing information.


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

I must have misinterpreted, I'm sorry. 

I thought that information on Oberon and Tiamat would be like information on the Greek gods and godesses.  So tales of Tiamat are not as plentiful as those of Zeus and Hera.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Is it bad that that quote made my day?  Hilarious!
> 
> Plus the image of conveniently stackable elves being manhandled into position by some poor stockboy.  Heh heh heh.



 I like legos.


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Tales of Oberon are very common, but Tiamat has apparently not always taken a directly adversarial role. In the cycle of tales that deal with the founding of the current dyansty, there is speculation that several of the women of power may have been Tiamat in disguise...but it is no more than the flights of fancy of talespinners and bards, as far as you can tell. 

Tales of Aon, Moradin, Govannon, Maewys I, Dumathion, etc. are the tales that fill the kind of mythological role that the Greek Pantheon does in the real world present.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> that made for some good reading. yup that's right, i Mick Ivan Nichols, aka "He Who Shall Not Read" read it all.    it was cool. but i don't think we can count on gods to help us. this is our fight to win or loose.
> mik aka ....



 Amen, Mik.

You make a valid point that I think we need to stick to.  Now, it is time to fight out fight.  We need to slash, hack, and chop things to teeny tiny bits.  That is what will stop the army.  The draconids, by my best guess, fear little.  We would do much better to focus on the best methods of actual attacking, as opposed to how to decieve them.


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

My brain hurts.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

To come back to the issue that I think is probably the most important for the next session:

If we choose to open the gates for the elves, are we setting ourselves up for disaster?

Please, help me to examine the consequences for that particular course of action because, now, it seems that any magical means of saving them is either too complicated to be undertaken with such short notice or, simply, impossible...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> My brain hurts.



 It's probably because you are thinking way too hard.  Scaring the draconids is really really really unlikely...

We smash.  End of story.


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

I like the whole idea of us teleporting in between the elves and the rest of the army as the Black Orcs attack from the rear.  Cinematically, it'd be realy cool.  Safetyly, it is very dangerous.  But hey, whoever said this group had common sense?

I vote for the heroes' last stand.


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## Archon (Jun 17, 2004)

*ivan the terrible...*

i say the six of us make a circle, when the battle finally comes down, with Xath in the center singing/spellslinging. that way they can't flank us and we get to make the stand together. plus, it makes for a great play on words to cement our legend.
The Circle of the Phoenix.
mik aka "Son of Bruce"
ps...."Ivan", yeah my parents wanted me to have a "normal" middle name in case "mik" was too weird. Thus "Ivan".


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i say the six of us make a circle, when the battle finally comes down, with Xath in the center singing/spellslinging.




Bah, I can't Lightning people if you're all surrounding me.  But stopping ourselves from being flanked is a good idea.  Pairing up and standing back to back would have the same effect without compromising anyone's fighting ability.


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Bah, I can't Lightning people if you're all surrounding me.  But stopping ourselves from being flanked is a good idea.  Pairing up and standing back to back would have the same effect without compromising anyone's fighting ability.



 But it's not as circle-y.  

I thought your lightning came down from the sky? Even if it doesn't, I am pretty sure you can find a way to avoid hitting PCs with it, even from behind cover.

The one time I got to play my half-orc paladin, I spent the entire game as cover for a lightning spewign wizard, so it must be possible... 

As for Heroes Last Stand in general, just make sure you have a way to get out of there if people start to fall down.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I like the whole idea of us teleporting in between the elves and the rest of the army as the Black Orcs attack from the rear.  Cinematically, it'd be realy cool.  Safetyly, it is very dangerous.  But hey, whoever said this group had common sense?
> 
> I vote for the heroes' last stand.




Cinematically, there are lots of things that would be really cool... I want to really think through what will happen if, indeed, we open the gates so that we can be prepared this time.
Opening the gates is, without a doubt, something that the bad guys WANT us to do-- we need to have everything thought out VERY well for this battle or we're going to end up dying the deaths of fools and not the deaths of heores... cinematically, that's very un-cool.

Don't want the "they're closer.... closer... closer... BAM HERE!" to happen again while we discuss what we should be doing.

So, put your evil caps on!  What do you think they are going to do when we open the gates?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Bah, I can't Lightning people if you're all surrounding me.  But stopping ourselves from being flanked is a good idea.  Pairing up and standing back to back would have the same effect without compromising anyone's fighting ability.



 Not having the bonuses from Xath's songs can limit all of our abilities to fight, though.  The lightning bolt is really cool... but, at the same time, it's also really cool to have a +2 to attack and damage for *all* the allies within the radius.


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## Archon (Jun 17, 2004)

*Archonus the Invincible!!!.....(yeah)*

just fire the lightning bolts through me or Kaereth. it's not like they're going to hurt _us_.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

*Anyone remember AoO?*

Um.... circle cool for effect, but L'aurel's gonna fall real fast or just remain really low on effectiveness... ranged weapon anyone??
But hey, I guess she can finally use that staff for more then just tripping people --hehe.. to bring up something else random to everyone, think gabby from xena


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> just fire the lightning bolts through me or Kaereth. it's not like they're going to hurt _us_.



in case they do not come from the sky... that would be cool, Arhconus taking her pain and dodging her lightning   This gets better and better


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Um.... circle cool for effect, but L'aurel's gonna fall real fast or just remain really low on effectiveness... ranged weapon anyone??
> But hey, I guess she can finally use that staff for more then just tripping people --hehe.. to bring up something else random to everyone, think gabby from xena



 Well, even if you're in the circle, you should be trying to use your bow as much as possible.  If worse comes to worse, when you "circle up" you could step into the circle with Xath, and be protected and effective.  However, when you run out of arrows, you could step up with the quarterstaff...

Just a thought.  No reason to put people in a position in which they aren't effective...


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

*Other ideas??*

We can poof/fly in between the army and the elves before they are within sight of Hywrl at the same time the Orcs hit from behind. In front Xath tells the Elves to scatter/run/hide in the woods.  Once chaos has ensued up front we try to poof into rear battle or we follow the elves into the woods killing any parties sent to round up some elves.  
One could assume (maybe incorrectly) that the evil people will continue forward to Hywrl and continue to fight the Orcs in back instead of stopping to round up the elves again. 
This gets the elves out of the way without opening the gate. 
This could be done within sight of the walls also, but it is more risky.  We know the regent will follow orders to not open the gates if we/Jaine/I told him not to -no matter what.  Remember the whole Xath in his daughters body, yet he still did not open the gates to her incident.  
Also if within sight of the walls some elves will go toward the city crying for help which just adds to the distress of those in the city and on the walls.  The number should be small though, and maybe this a group of smart elves who follow orders and just all go into the woods


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

*A New Thread for KOA Myths/Religion*

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1604568#post1604568

I started the above so we'd have a place to talk about in-game myth and religion, without hijacking this thread.  So, HAVE AT IT!  Although the discussion may not be urgent, it is fun, and thus it is worth talking about!


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, even if you're in the circle, you should be trying to use your bow as much as possible. If worse comes to worse, when you "circle up" you could step into the circle with Xath, and be protected and effective. However, when you run out of arrows, you could step up with the quarterstaff...
> 
> Just a thought. No reason to put people in a position in which they aren't effective...



yeah, I read up on the whip... and it's a ranged weapon, so hurrah for all those bonuses for using it.  I also just took mobility- yeah +4 to AC for AoO.
And we don't count arrows.... (kind of silly not to in a mass battle situation though....)
Eh... L'aurel will just be good cutting them down as they advance


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We can poof/fly in between the army and the elves before they are within sight of Hywrl at the same time the Orcs hit from behind.



  You certainly can do this, but it might not be a bad idea to poof in ahead of the elves, and just let them pass you.  Otherwise, you'll be trying to shout orders at their backs as they run away from you, and simultanesouly fight whatever is chasing them.   And if they're not fleeing in neat columns, it allows you to deal with elements of the enemy as they come.  If you try to teleport in between, you have to worry about placement, whereas if you teleport ahead of the whole things, _they_ have to worry about placement.   

As for the rest of Kat's post, if you order Arin Inelliron to keep the gate shut, he will, unless he recieves overriding orders to the contrary...so just make sure you get Jaine and the Duke on same page as you, and things ought to be OK.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> now, it seems that any magical means of saving them is either too complicated to be undertaken with such short notice or, simply, impossible...



Well, I need to get Kennon the Quin. Druid book so he look at the funny and strange chapter on the Other Plane... the land of the fey as it were. Apparently, I could lead groups of people through this on an outer rim path from place to place. It is much safer to not take anyone completely there.... it can be a not nice place and only Druid magic works there.

So for now we need to ignore this possibility, since it is just confusing me and may not possible anyways. This falls under the possibly impossible from above.
But could be fun later on.


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> yeah, I read up on the whip... and it's a ranged weapon, so hurrah for all those bonuses for using it.  I also just took mobility- yeah +4 to AC for AoO.
> And we don't count arrows.... (kind of silly not to in a mass battle situation though....)
> Eh... L'aurel will just be good cutting them down as they advance



 I am sure you can apply a "rapid shot" bonus to the whip, but I think multi shot may not be possible. . .  

As for counting arrows, I'll assume you run out on natural 1, or something.


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, I need to get Kennon the Quin. Druid book so he look at the funny and strange chapter on the Other Plane... the land of the fey as it were. Apparently, I could lead groups of people through this on an outer rim path from place to place. It is much safer to not take anyone completely there.... it can be a not nice place and only Druid magic works there.
> 
> So for now we need to ignore this possibility, since it is just confusing me and may not possible anyways. This falls under the possibly impossible from above.
> But could be fun later on.



 Yeah--at best, this would enter the campaign in a modified form.  There isn't really a plane of Fey in KoA.  However, there is a relatively powerful plane of dreams...


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> You certainly can do this, but it might not be a bad idea to poof in ahead of the elves, and just let them pass you. Otherwise, you'll be trying to shout orders at their backs as they run away from you, and simultanesouly fight whatever is chasing them. And if they're not fleeing in neat columns, it allows you to deal with elements of the enemy as they come. If you try to teleport in between, you have to worry about placement, whereas if you teleport ahead of the whole things, _they_ have to worry about placement.



Cool -advice taken under advisement --to group, "yes, please listen to him much better." hehe... and I can have more time shooting between them/around/over them then  


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> As for the rest of Kat's post, if you order Arin Inelliron to keep the gate shut, he will, unless he recieves overriding orders to the contrary...so just make sure you get Jaine and the Duke on same page as you, and things ought to be OK.



As for having the Duke on the same page I guess.... Jaine is obviously a definite though!


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I am sure you can apply a "rapid shot" bonus to the whip, but I think multi shot may not be possible. . .



hehe... it is a shock whip right not a shocking burst?
In the description for manyshot it specifically states arrows, so no it does not count. but I do get three arrows each draw now, so 9 arrows per round  



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> As for counting arrows, I'll assume you run out on natural 1, or something.



Hopefully they will not hate me then...


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> hehe... it is a shock whip right not a shocking burst?
> In the description for manyshot it specifically states arrows, so no it does not count. but I do get three arrows each draw now, so 9 arrows per round
> 
> Hopefully they will not hate me then...



 Yep--it's a shock whip, not shocking burst.  And remember that whips only do D2 or D3 damage, unless it is a whip dagger, or something.  Good for tripping, though!


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## Archon (Jun 17, 2004)

*Bows and Arrows*

if we come up far enough ahead of them even i can bust out old "Long Arm" and fell a few nasties. although i'm limited to three arrows a round. and i don't think i deal nearly enough damage, but i figure hey, i could just "Kaereth" the ones you wound really badly leaving you to unleash your onslaught on the unwounded.
mik


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Heh.  "Kaereth" the wounded.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> if we come up far enough ahead of them even i can bust out old "Long Arm" and fell a few nasties. although i'm limited to three arrows a round. and i don't think i deal nearly enough damage, but i figure hey, i could just "Kaereth" the ones you wound really badly leaving you to unleash your onslaught on the unwounded.
> mik



Teehee  happiness of killing draconids and undead any which way make her happy... and she has no problem wearing them down for someone else to strike the final blow
Any damage done as they get closer is great, and Xath's handy with bow also, though her "lightning bolt! lightning bolt!" may do more good


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

Ok, so it looks like we have foolishly and awesomely decided to go with the Heroes' Last Stand attack plan.  So lets analyze the situation.


The main object here is not the effectivness and completeness of the killing, but rather to knock out as many people as possible as quickly as possible, giving as many elves as possible a chance to escape.  Quantity over quality.


So think.  How many people can your character hit in a round?  How many combinations of this can you do?  What do the conditions need to be for this to be effective?

EDIT: And then ask yourself, how much more can I do when Hasted?

Etc, etc, etc.


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## Xath (Jun 17, 2004)

For example, hasted, Kaereth can run a mile in 88seconds.


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## The_Universe (Jun 17, 2004)

Kaereth is officially the coolest PC ever.  He can break residential speed limits.  ON FOOT.  (1 mile in 88 seconds is approx. 41 mph)


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## AIM-54 (Jun 17, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> if we come up far enough ahead of them even i can bust out old "Long Arm" and fell a few nasties. although i'm limited to three arrows a round. and i don't think i deal nearly enough damage, but i figure hey, i could just "Kaereth" the ones you wound really badly leaving you to unleash your onslaught on the unwounded.
> mik




I resemble that remark!   

Heh.

As for Kaereth, hasted and moving no more than a 5 foot step, he would have 5 attacks, 4 at his max attack bonus, each doing a minimum of 10 points of damage.  And then, of course, he can run really, really fast.  But he's best in a relatively static environment where the enemies come to him.  But that is, in a general sense, true for everyone.

We will definitely need a quick way out, though, as a circle of just us will be quickly overrun, though not without cost.


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## Laurel (Jun 17, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> So think. How many people can your character hit in a round? How many combinations of this can you do? What do the conditions need to be for this to be effective?
> EDIT: And then ask yourself, how much more can I do when Hasted?



Kareth yells smash and then stands there as they approach.  As they get within reach he starts to move his hands in a blur of motion- one two three four five- Down they go!  The next group moves in- one two three four five... "um guys I think we need to move Kareth has a wall forming around him of dead bodies."

L'Aurel with shortbow:
Hits in one round: 4 different targets with 3 arrows each 1d6 damage +all modifiers depending on what they are.
Conditions: At least 5 to 30 feet away to avoid AoO but still get point blank bonus.
L'Aurel with anything else:   not so cool, but she has whip   (ranged) so again four different targets 5 to 15 feet away.
Haste -If I can add all the other stuff for her then another target with three arrows.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

Justice has two melee attacks... and does not fight with two weapons...

However, plop me down in front of the undead and I turn as an 18th level Cleric... and, that, my friends, is A LOT. (12 times per day, even!)


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

If we intend to have the elves scatter which, in my mind, is a much better plan than opening the gates, we need to have people in charge of directing them to a specific place to be held-- mass confusion and chaos is okay... but, it can also work to our disadvantage.  We need to have "emergency lights" guiding them to a place where they can, potentially, be quasi-safe.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

Also: I do think it is very important that we think out all of these options and determine the costs and benefits of each.

So, what are the costs and benefits of having the elves scatter as opposed to opening the gates and letting in as many as possible?


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## AIM-54 (Jun 17, 2004)

I think it's a matter of resources.  There is not a lot we can do for these elves, in all honesty.  The best we can do is try and give them a chance to escape the battle while we keep the draconids focused on us and our allies.  It may not be possible to both win the battle and save a significant number of these elves.  At this point, I think winning the battle is much more important in the overall scheme of things.  The odds are not in our favor.  We need all of our resources focused on the defeat of this army.  

Opening the gates has a good chance of reducing one of our main advantages, namely fortifications.  We can't have our guys on the wall worried about enemies on the inside that got in while we tried to save some elves.  We need them focused on defending the walls.

A stand by the heroes to buy some time is a poor option, but may be the best we can do, especially if we draw our line at a point where we can be supported from the walls.  Even if we had some sort of signpost, there's no guarantee that these starved, terrified elves would even follow them as chaos overtook the field.  Medieval battle is a notoriously chaotic beast as it is and trying to impose order on it will only take you so far.

We do what we can and the elves may just have to take their chances.  It's a tough situation, but our primary goal has to be the defeat of the draconid army.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 17, 2004)

Thank you, Jeremiah!

You bring sense and order to this chaotic planning situation.

I believe that opening the gates is a bad idea.  Very very bad... so, I think the best plan is to give them instruction to scatter into the forest and hope for the best.


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## Archon (Jun 17, 2004)

*what i bring to the table*

Archon can attack 4 times a round 5 if hasted. each hit deals between 9-26 or 9-19. my ranged attack is weaker with only 3 attacks a round 4 if hasted and dealing only 4-11 points of damage per hit.
i have a lot of hit points though and if i fight defensively my AC can be 35 but i'd recieve a -9 to all attacks. not bad against weenies but for the bigger guys i wouldn't be hitting much. 
if i drink a potion of owls wisdom before the fight i can boost my DR to 6, which can really help, especially when taking Xath's pain.
as long as we have someone on wand duty we could last pretty long.
anyway....
mik aka "sam"


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## AIM-54 (Jun 17, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Thank you, Jeremiah!
> 
> You bring sense and order to this chaotic planning situation.
> 
> I believe that opening the gates is a bad idea.  Very very bad... so, I think the best plan is to give them instruction to scatter into the forest and hope for the best.






Just trying to throw some pragmatism into the pot.


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## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

The forest NOT in a big collective group would count as a quasi-safe place for the elves during the big battle. If they are spread out it is also one less 'group' we have to protect and guard during the battle. 
After the battle is won we can send people out to gather up any refugees.
I think we have agreed that opening the gate is a bad idea....?... correct?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

So far combining the plans out there is to let them get close to the walls (approx. ?ft.), so we have support.
We poof/fly to front of whole group.
Circle line up- ? - Kareth and Arfin our tanks in front, Archonus and Justice next. From there Archonus can attack, but still be central should anyone need him. Justice can still do her sword hacking and turning. Xath and I in back for range and spells. 
Strange picture below not to scale, but you should get the idea.
HHHHHHH = Wall
-L-X- 
J---Arch.
-K-A-
EEEEEEEE = Army
Tell Elves to run into the forest while we start attacking the force behind the elves? Giving the elves some time to flee. Then we leave --go to Hywrl or go with Orcs.
While all this is happening in front, the Orcs attack the rear.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Or is there a plan/ main part of plan I am missing......


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## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Just trying to throw some pragmatism into the pot.



Show off


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## Xath (Jun 18, 2004)

Whaaaa?  I do not understand above post Kat.  Is there supposed to be a picture?


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## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Whaaaa? I do not understand above post Kat. Is there supposed to be a picture?



Said with humor: GRRRRR forget the post and the picture... I was trying to show our circle positions- the letters -- A for Arfin, K for Kareth, Arch for Arhconus, J for Justice, X for Xath, and L for L'Aurel. Then H is for the direction the wall of Hywrl is from our position when we attack, and E is for the direction of the draconid army.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 18, 2004)

I think the plan, as I understand it, is that we take a position 60-100 feet (depending on the range of the weapons on the wall) ahead of the wall, to be there before the elves reach us, probably in something like the following formation (in something like a semi-circle):

--------Kaereth-----Arfin-------
--Justice----------------Archon
---------Xath---Laurel--------

Or with Xath and Laurel in between Justice and Archon if that's preferable.
The precise alignment is by no means set, either, but the basic formation is the idea I'm trying to convey.

Then we do what we can to herd the elves around the city and meet the first charge of the enemy.  Then we kill as many as we can and teleport back to the city to aid in the defense of the walls.  I say that because the wall defense is where our least experienced troops are and it will be better for us to inspire them than to fight with the already ruthless and brutal Black Orcs (who, it seems, certain parties would be more than happy to see exterminated in the course of this battle...)

That's how I envision it at any rate.


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## Xath (Jun 18, 2004)

--------Kaereth-----Arfin-------
--Justice----------------Archon
---------Laurel-----Xath--------


This is the only modification I'd make, the reason being that, since Justice will be turning, Xath will be healing.  This way, she'll be within a 5 foot step of the 3 members who can't really heal themselves.  And we don't take Justice's damage away by making her cure.


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## Xath (Jun 18, 2004)

I also think we need to make our move farther away from the walls, perhaps retreating to there if necessary.  But it won't do any good to tell the elves to flee to the woods when they've already reached the defense clearing.  We need to get to them sooner.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 18, 2004)

Perhaps, but I also think we need to maximize the effectiveness of our covering fire from the walls and that means staying within a range increment of the walls.  Our first goal is the defense of Hyrwl.  We have to keep our eye on the goal and remember that helping these elves is only a secondary aim.  It's tragic, it sucks, but that's the way it is.  Good support fire (or the best we can expect from our mostly green forces) may also allow us to stay out there a little bit longer maybe saving a few more elves, but more importantly allowing us to kill a few more bad guys.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 18, 2004)

I think that Xath needs to be in the middle in order to most effectively do her bard thing.  We are all running low of beef-up spells and, during this battle, her songs will be absolutely necessary.
However, if Xath thinks she will do more good with lightening bolts, that is her decision.  I know that she doesn't sing very often in combat... but, it is something that is, at this point, an advantage that I don't think we can afford to lose.

But, at the same time, not sure that the circle formation will matter for more than a couple of rounds.  Once we do what we can with the elves, it seems to me that we will all probably start to focus on the area where we are most needed... or maybe I say that because my combat abilities are specifically designed to make me the bane of the undead.  *shrugs*
I don't think that we should split up-- we need to fight together in order to make the largest dent... but, based on past experiences, it seems that this will kind of happen *glares at Archonus*  


Anyway, how far apart are each of us in the circle?  And, what is the range on Xath's songs?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 18, 2004)

Also, a question for Kennon... will Preston be fighting at all outside of the wall? Or will the NPCs remain within the walls of Hyrwl?

I ask because he and I combined will make a very very powerful force against the undead.


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## The_Universe (Jun 18, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Once we do what we can with the elves, it seems to me that we will all probably start to focus on the area where we are most needed... or maybe I say that because my combat abilities are specifically designed to make me the bane of the undead. *shrugs*
> I don't think that we should split up-- we need to fight together in order to make the largest dent... but, based on past experiences, it seems that this will kind of happen *glares at Archonus*



If you abandon the circle formation for any reason (whether it's to seek out a specific enemy, or to martyr one self) you obviate the benefit of the formation (and the whole plan) in the first place. As soon as you leave the circle, you not only can no longer protect eachother (and quickly retreat together as necessary), you also give up the "initiative" (in battlefield terms) to the enemy. The whole point of the circle is that it presents on obstacle on the battlefield that the enemy will have to deal with on _your terms. _Now, if one of the big-bads seeks you out, so be it. But they'll be coming to you, giving you the advantage, rather than the other way around. 

The idea is not to defeat the entire army with the circle/stand, but just to slow them down to 1) gives the elves time to scatter, and 2) allow the Black Orcs time to position themselves for a strike against the rear of their force. Any real and lasting damage you do is just an extra benefit. 




			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Anyway, how far apart are each of us in the circle? And, what is the range on Xath's songs?



Remember that you probably won't start in a circle. You'll start in a line with the ranged combatant/bard protected behind you. It is only as you're overtaken and surrounded by the enemy that you circle-up, to prevent flanking, etc. The longer you're out on the field, the longer the enemy has to deal with you as a discreet force, and the longer you can give the people on the walls the advantage of a hefty distraction.

So, to answer the question specifically, you'll probably start a little spread out (certainly within a standard movement from eachother) and then condense to being right next to each other.


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## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> --------Kaereth-----Arfin-------
> --Justice----------------Archon
> ---------Laurel-----Xath--------
> 
> ...



Um.... this looks familiar-- though clearer  
Xath should be on the side with Archonus.  
I really don't think it will matter that much though.  Isn't the wand of healing ranged touch? -This was a previous discussion during game time and I don't remeber what happened.-
As for Xath being in the middle, if we start to become surrounded we can close in around Xath if needed.
We can even start with Xath and I in front.  Then we step back in between you guys as the enemy approaches.  Gives us a few extra feet of damage and no chance of them getting cover from you all.  It will be fun enough shootign through the elves.  As the enemy nears we take five foot steps as they approach till Arfin and Kareth are the front line.
Justice can you turn through allies or does this affect the ray?  I assume not, but want to ask just in case.


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## The_Universe (Jun 18, 2004)

Justice can turn anywhere--Turning doesn't effect living creatures, so she can turn all day long without even giving them a sunburn.


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## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

*Leavin' on a jet plane....*



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Perhaps, but I also think we need to maximize the effectiveness of our covering fire from the walls and that means staying within a range increment of the walls. Our first goal is the defense of Hyrwl. We have to keep our eye on the goal and remember that helping these elves is only a secondary aim. It's tragic, it sucks, but that's the way it is. Good support fire (or the best we can expect from our mostly green forces) may also allow us to stay out there a little bit longer maybe saving a few more elves, but more importantly allowing us to kill a few more bad guys..



Yes, saving the elves is more a moral calling to not just leave them to die, but our main goal is to beat this army. 
As for the range increment, they can shoot past that point it just lowers their already low attack bonus. Unless someone has serious issues with being within one range increment of the wall I'd say lets go with it -support fire and support magic.  Plus if we are within range this also gives the fleeing elves extra help with any soldier that may try and give chase.  We can not get them all.... though my ego would like to say we can....
Thank you again J.  

This begs the next questions of how are we getting in and out??
Are we trying the swoop in on wings or do we use magic and poof. Are we going to have a pre-determined goal to try and stay till -one of us is almost dead/the elves have mostly scattered/all the elves are gone/the army is upon us and we are loosing? Are we swooping out or running out or poofing out? Where are we headed once out -to the orcs in back, inside Hywrl, or someplace else?


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## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

*All my bags are packed...*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Justice can turn anywhere--Turning doesn't effect living creatures, so she can turn all day long without even giving them a sunburn.



Cool, just wanted to make sure we did not hinder anythin'


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## The_Universe (Jun 18, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Also, a question for Kennon... will Preston be fighting at all outside of the wall? Or will the NPCs remain within the walls of Hyrwl?
> 
> I ask because he and I combined will make a very very powerful force against the undead.



 Without interference (and a good reason) from you, all major NPCs can be assumed to be operating inside the city, or on the walls.  

Although Preston, Dorn, and any number of the clerics saved from Oceanus can make quite a dent in any undead the serpentblood could choose to bring to bear against you, if they leave the walls, they no longer experience the benefit of having them.  

The point of this battle is _not_ to destroy the invading army.  It's to protect your settlement.  As a result, people intend to stick close and use their resources in that capacity as much as is possible.  

After all, even if you're attacked by thousands of ghouls and hundreds of vilewights, they still have to come to the wall to be effective--and so the defenders have placed themselves on the walls to react to them as necessary.  

Hopefully, that made sense.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 18, 2004)

On another note, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MIK! 

Congratulations on defeating the assassins for yet another year. I'll get you NEXT TIME, Nichols!  BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!


----------



## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

*It’s early morn, The taxi’s waitin’, He’s blowin’ his horn*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> So, to answer the question specifically, you'll probably start a little spread out (certainly within a standard movement from eachother) and then condense to being right next to each other.



Exactly. For song and spells we make Xath the middle, our point of reference in battle. 
Like Kennon is saying we can move in battle (to reform or regroup as needed), but once they are on top of us (close enough for melee) we need the circle to reduce the chance of bonus on BAB. It also lets each fighter focus more on the dangers in one area, instead of our normal attackers being in front of us, behind us, on each side of us and possibly above us...


----------



## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

*Don’t know when I’ll be back again, Oh babe, I hate to go*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Without interference (and a good reason) from you, all major NPCs can be assumed to be operating inside the city, or on the walls.
> Although Preston, Dorn, and any number of the clerics saved from Oceanus can make quite a dent in any undead the serpentblood could choose to bring to bear against you, if they leave the walls, they no longer experience the benefit of having them.
> The point of this battle is _not_ to destroy the invading army. It's to protect your settlement. As a result, people intend to stick close and use their resources in that capacity as much as is possible.
> After all, even if you're attacked by thousands of ghouls and hundreds of vilewights, they still have to come to the wall to be effective--and so the defenders have placed themselves on the walls to react to them as necessary.



Um... Not that she has much say, but L'Aurel wants family behind the walls. 
Having the six of us running around going from point to point may be difficult enough. If the undead get close enough, Preston and Dorn can do thier turning from on the wall right?


----------



## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

*What no warnings!*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> On another note, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MIK!
> 
> Congratulations on defeating the assassins for yet another year. I'll get you NEXT TIME, Nichols! >



!!!!Happy Birthday Mik!!!!

Wow.... I still feel old.....


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 18, 2004)

*A funny image...*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Um... Not that she has much say, but L'Aurel wants family behind the walls.  Having the six of us running around going from point to point may be difficult enough. If the undead get close enough, Preston and Dorn can do thier turning from on the wall right?



They could turn undead from the latrine if they really wanted.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 18, 2004)

*Then close your eyes, I’ll be on my way*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> They could turn undead from the latrine if they really wanted.



 Geesh, as if we didn't have enough time in the sewers now we bring latrine's into it....


----------



## Xath (Jun 18, 2004)

Here's my interpretation of the overall battle plan.  (for what Xath is doing)

---------Laurel-----Xath--------
Justice-Kaereth-----Arfin-Archon

We start out in this formation allowing the two Ranged attackers a clear line of sight.   Xath can start making attacks once they are 800 feet away.  (the elves, naturally would be closer, as she would be attacking behind them)  If the creatures are moving at 60 feet a round, Xath can let off approximately 16-17 fireballs (with the rod of quickening) before they get within melee range)
At best with each fireball, she can knock off 60 attackers.  

Once the attackers get within melee range, L'Aurel and Xath fall back to behind Kaereth and Arfin respectively.

Justice-Kaereth-----Arfin-Archon
---------Laurel-----Xath--------

Once the group is surrounded, we take upon the circle formation to prevent against being flanked.  At this time, the group is Hasted.

--------Kaereth-----Arfin-------
--Justice----------------Archon
---------Laurel-----Xath--------

And here, Xath can do 1 of several things.

1) She continues using the wand of Fireball for up to another 30 rounds, stopping to heal as necessary.  Using all 47 charges of the fireball wand gives us a chance of knocking out 2820 bad guys, although there's a good chance the concentration checks won't last that long.

2) She sings a song of Inspire Courage which gives a +2 to damage, and uses melee weapons to attack.  Stopping to heal someone stops the song, although it's effects would last 5 rounds after the fact.

Probably, it will end up being a combination of the two.  Singing, stopping to heal someone, then wailing 4 fireballs before continuing.


----------



## Archon (Jun 18, 2004)

*a new year*

what r we going to do about Wyverns and other flying nasties?
by the way, thanks for the "happies" guys, i appreciate it, especially since it looks like i'm not going to get to go home(my glorious team leader never put in for my leave). i hear it every year, the same phrase "happy birthday", and i get used to it. i've even taken it for granted. but this year...this year it means a lot more to me.
so thanks again guys.
mik aka "fitty state"


----------



## AIM-54 (Jun 18, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> what r we going to do about Wyverns and other flying nasties?




Our best bet is to let them come to us.  We have no real way to challenge them on their terms and sending our two aerial PC's after them would only end badly.

That said, once our little diversionary maneuver in front of the walls is complete, we may want to be on dragon/wyvern duty on/inside the walls, as we'll be the best prepared to take them down.

That's how I see it, at any rate.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 18, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Here's my interpretation of the overall battle plan.  (for what Xath is doing)
> 
> ---------Laurel-----Xath--------
> Justice-Kaereth-----Arfin-Archon
> ...



 This doesn't really take into account the potential strengths and resistances of the varying draconids, as well as the potential that you could be confronted by an unliving force, early on.  If they're fire resistant, fireball won't work, and if it's undead, you'll want to maximize Justice's ability to turn.  If you are, you may want to change the order of certain things, or use alternative resources. 

You'll more than likely see all sorts of opponents, but don't lock in too hard.  To a degree, once you decided where to engage the enemy, and the general formation, you can play the rest of this part by ear.  

What you now need to decide is what you're going to do AFTER you jam out of the circle, and how you hope to do so.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 18, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Our best bet is to let them come to us.  We have no real way to challenge them on their terms and sending our two aerial PC's after them would only end badly.
> 
> That said, once our little diversionary maneuver in front of the walls is complete, we may want to be on dragon/wyvern duty on/inside the walls, as we'll be the best prepared to take them down.
> 
> That's how I see it, at any rate.



 This is a good idea for the post-circle direction I asked about, above.  Walls are great against infantry, but not so useful against things with wings.  If, as a group, you can limit the effectiveness of any of their flying beasties, you'll have helped to even the score a great deal between the two armies.  

Maybe we need to get creative and think of ways to do some anti-aircraft operations...?  *puts on thinking cap*


----------



## AIM-54 (Jun 18, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> This is a good idea for the post-circle direction I asked about, above.  Walls are great against infantry, but not so useful against things with wings.  If, as a group, you can limit the effectiveness of any of their flying beasties, you'll have helped to even the score a great deal between the two armies.
> 
> Maybe we need to get creative and think of ways to do some anti-aircraft operations...?  *puts on thinking cap*





What's the range on the wand of fireballs?  Knowing that white dragons are mostly cold oriented, that might be an excellent weapon against that particular threat.  I figure much of our magical resources might need to be tasked to take on the aerial threat, depending on how much of their aerial forces they send.  The PC's are certainly ideal for taking on some of this, as we can take down a wyvern pretty easily, not sure about a dragon, but better us than some of our regulars.  We may also want to task up to a section of archers to focus on wyverns (I'm not certain regular archers will do much against even a white dragon).  The cannon(s) should remain focused on the ground threat as bouncing cannonballs will do much more damage there than on the off-chance that they should hit a much more maneuverable aerial target.

That's what I've got for now...


----------



## Archon (Jun 18, 2004)

*Tempest*

maybe we can summon a feirce storm to knock them out of the air, or at least make flying difficult. plus...it'd be cool cinematically.
mik


----------



## Xath (Jun 18, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> What's the range on the wand of fireballs?  Knowing that white dragons are mostly cold oriented, that might be an excellent weapon against that particular threat.  I figure much of our magical resources might need to be tasked to take on the aerial threat, depending on how much of their aerial forces they send.  The PC's are certainly ideal for taking on some of this, as we can take down a wyvern pretty easily, not sure about a dragon, but better us than some of our regulars.  We may also want to task up to a section of archers to focus on wyverns (I'm not certain regular archers will do much against even a white dragon).  The cannon(s) should remain focused on the ground threat as bouncing cannonballs will do much more damage there than on the off-chance that they should hit a much more maneuverable aerial target.
> 
> That's what I've got for now...




The range is normally 800 ft, but if Justice'll let me snag one of her rods, I could get 3 of them off at up to 1600 feet.


----------



## Xath (Jun 20, 2004)

You know what? Nevermind.  Our plans seem to work the best when we don't plan them.  (except for that one time when we were stealing the ship)  Let's just wing it.


----------



## Archon (Jun 20, 2004)

*planning is for the weak!!*

  sounds good to me. 
and "yay!" for "The Complete Works of William Shakespere" it was awesome Gertie.
mik aka "McPlain n' Tall"


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## Laurel (Jun 20, 2004)

*Wow.. chattanooga.. what a city....*

Um one questions- how are we getting into position?  Running? Flying?

And one suggestion- could we just rule the white dragons? Or is there save too easy?   What about ruling the wyverns?


----------



## Laurel (Jun 20, 2004)

*oh, no giant elephants for me to swing from....*

Got the whole battle line up-- Xath and I should be out front first.  Justice can turn around/through us with no problems; however, my arrows probably don't go around her so well.
Yes, playing this part by ear is a good idea as too much can change or alter during battle- plus as mentioned, we still need a way out and in.... hmmmmm......


----------



## Xath (Jun 20, 2004)

No, we can't rule the dragons.  There smart enough to be entitled to a will save, and they're wise enough to make it.


----------



## Archon (Jun 20, 2004)

*Drag-on Queen?*

we could at least try it. what would be cooler then having our own Dragon. it'd be a nice way to make the odds a little more even. i think it's worth a shot.
mik


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 21, 2004)

Xath can certainly have the rod of englarge spell... I have no spells left and the rod doesn't have an effect on Turning.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 21, 2004)

The planning process--in a situation like this-- is a very complicated one.  The most important thing to do right now is to recognize that we are up against horrific odds and simply focus on doing all that we can to, probably not defeat, but dent the forces that we are fighting.

We get in there (I thought the plan was to teleport, L'Aurel), we smash, and if things get bad, we fight to the last.  Retreat at this point is probably not an option-- can we all agree on that?  

And if so be ready to die terrific heroes deaths!


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 21, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> we could at least try it. what would be cooler then having our own Dragon. it'd be a nice way to make the odds a little more even. i think it's worth a shot.
> mik



 I'm with Mik on this one--there's no harm in trying.  It's not like the rod blows up if somone makes their save.  If nothing else, use it on dumb creatures, and make them attack the dragon...just make sure you're only ruling people you want ruled with the thing. After all, even if they don't manage to kill it, you'll at least have eliminated *300 Hit die *worth of baddies.


----------



## AIM-54 (Jun 21, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The planning process--in a situation like this-- is a very complicated one.  The most important thing to do right now is to recognize that we are up against horrific odds and simply focus on doing all that we can to, probably not defeat, but dent the forces that we are fighting.
> 
> We get in there (I thought the plan was to teleport, L'Aurel), we smash, and if things get bad, we fight to the last.  Retreat at this point is probably not an option-- can we all agree on that?
> 
> And if so be ready to die terrific heroes deaths!




As I understood it, we'd teleport out (or even walk out, as we're intending to be there before the bad guys get there) and then once overwhelmed, we'd teleport back to the city to help out, act as a mobile anti-dragon/wyvern unit, that type thing.  So, no retreat, but a quick change of venue to prevent the town from falling any sooner than necessary.

Does that make sense?  Am I missing something?


----------



## Laurel (Jun 21, 2004)

*from the person of inane questions*



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> As I understood it, we'd teleport out (or even walk out, as we're intending to be there before the bad guys get there) and then once overwhelmed, we'd teleport back to the city to help out, act as a mobile anti-dragon/wyvern unit, that type thing. So, no retreat, but a quick change of venue to prevent the town from falling any sooner than necessary.
> 
> Does that make sense? Am I missing something?



Sounds good to me.

Do we have a rod of teleportation?  If yes, then forget the rest of this post  
If not then we have to use magic from inside the city or buy a wand/rod if one has already been made by someone.  I just know we have no more teleports on Xath's shoes for the day, and I don't think any of us can teleport us all.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 21, 2004)

*try for the optimism*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> we could at least try it. what would be cooler then having our own Dragon. it'd be a nice way to make the odds a little more even. i think it's worth a shot.
> mik



Heehee and there's always at least a teensy little chance that they could fail   and as stated if they succeed in their save then we just move on, but hey we have it why not use it...
Is the save against who uses the rod or who made the rod or some combo of both?  Sorry technicality I don't know.
--Just for if Justice is turning and Xath is lightning bolt and Arhcon and L'Aurel are usin' the bows maybe Arfin or Kareth could try the ruling thing.  Obviously, if it uses the PCs stats this may not work so well, but random thought.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 21, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Heehee and there's always at least a teensy little chance that they could fail   and as stated if they succeed in their save then we just move on, but hey we have it why not use it...
> Is the save against who uses the rod or who made the rod or some combo of both?  Sorry technicality I don't know.
> --Just for if Justice is turning and Xath is lightning bolt and Arhcon and L'Aurel are usin' the bows maybe Arfin or Kareth could try the ruling thing.  Obviously, if it uses the PCs stats this may not work so well, but random thought.



 The rod of rulership is as difficult to resist, regardless of who is weilding it.  The only difficulty a less-intelligent character might have is phrasing orders in a way to ensure that the compulsion never breaks the ruled creatures' "nature."  

So, Kaereth and/or Arfin could use the rod, but they might not be as good at using it as some of the others...though stat-wise, they'd be identical.   

Hope that makes sense.  

On another note, GO SEE DODGEBALL.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 21, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> we could at least try it. what would be cooler then having our own Dragon. it'd be a nice way to make the odds a little more even. i think it's worth a shot.
> mik



 You have to KEEP ruling it, though.  You can't just say "you're my friend" and have it believe you for more than the time that you are actively ruling it.

Making it our friend is probably against it's nature... and would require that myself, or whoever is using the rod, continually rule the dragon for the entire time it is around us.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 21, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> You have to KEEP ruling it, though.  You can't just say "you're my friend" and have it believe you for more than the time that you are actively ruling it.
> 
> Making it our friend is probably against it's nature... and would require that myself, or whoever is using the rod, continually rule the dragon for the entire time it is around us.



 Very true.  But don't give up on the rod.  To give you an example of the capabilities we're talking about here, you are all 10 or 11 Hit die creatures in the game.  Being able to command 300 hit die worth of creatures makes you *incredibly* more effective.  It increases your personal capabilities to nearly _*thirty times*_ their current level, all based on no more than concentration.  

And remember that if you have troubles convincing them to do something, there's always a wand of seeming...(alternatively, you might be able to be effective with nothing more than a well thought out lie.)


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## Archon (Jun 21, 2004)

*giving them "the rod"*

plus all we have to do is use the rod as a catalyst. these aren't very reasonable creatures, if we have 300 HD worth of their forces turn on them both parties will fight back and even if we stop ruling them their warlike natures ensure that they will continue fighting even without our guiding hand. and if the rod works how i think it does then we might do alright just turning waves upon waves of their own soldiers against them.
mik aka "fitty state"


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## Xath (Jun 21, 2004)

I think that will work the best on creatures like the wyverns.  The more intelligent draconids may stop attacking each other.


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## The_Universe (Jun 21, 2004)

Only way to know for sure is to try!


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## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Only way to know for sure is to try!



"Do or do not there is no try".... so lets not be pansy, whiny little PCs and try it  Worse that happens they make the save and we loose, what, a minute off the rod.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> You have to KEEP ruling it, though. You can't just say "you're my friend" and have it believe you for more than the time that you are actively ruling it.
> 
> Making it our friend is probably against it's nature... and would require that myself, or whoever is using the rod, continually rule the dragon for the entire time it is around us.



As stated, yes we have to keep ruling it, but it will take the army a few rounds to get to us.  In those rounds we can be ruling or trying to rule multiple things.  Even if we have to stop ruling them there will still be significant damage done already, so well worth the attempt.
Arfin can actively rule them until the army is within melee distance.  And sorry Kareth but with the intel. issues I would go for Arfin's commanding them.  
With only so many actions per round Justice needs to be turning not trying to rule, the same goes for the rest of us with assigned roles.  Arfin can essentially try to rule multiple things if that is his only action for the round, since he is not using his time for movement, attacks, or spells.
Also, saying "Look at all the treasure they have not shared with you why not freeze them" is not against a dragons nature.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 22, 2004)

Sounds good.  Let's start working on a retreat strategy, as well as discuss how you're going to get ahead of the army in the first place, since you are currently waiting for Black Orcs...


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

One question: Is justice calling Thane for the battle, is she having him attack during the battle, is she just keeping in for emergencies?  

Reason for asking: If Justice calls Thane between him and Ohtar we can fly low to the tree tops and get everyone quickly to the open area already agreed upon.  Hey, it beats walking which takes more time.  (Well, except Kareth who runs as fast as they fly)

For retreat:  Teleport maybe our best option.  It has to be something very fast as we will be surrounded at that point.

Another option- though it has lots of flaws and lots of reasons not to go with it I know.  I still want to put it out there as a possibility-- 
We fly out.  Thane & ohtar swoop in and grab us.  There will most likely be some aerial enemies though, and there will be lots of attacks from the ground forces for that round.  This would, however, allow us to fight in the air, change where we are headed at any moment, not use up more magic as teleport would.  Also in the flying away one or two wyverns may follow, and we know we can take those on with no problems (all of us attack one while Arhconus attacks the other)


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

heehee- If I have to be on defense only, I can become a tree.... yep, that oh so powerful druid spell of turning oneself into a tree.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

*From the past....*

Last time I asked about our possible entry/retreat plan I got this:







			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We get in there (I thought the plan was to teleport, L'Aurel), we smash, and if things get bad, we fight to the last. Retreat at this point is probably not an option-- can we all agree on that?
> And if so be ready to die terrific heroes deaths!





			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> As I understood it, we'd teleport out (or even walk out, as we're intending to be there before the bad guys get there) and then once overwhelmed, we'd teleport back to the city to help out, act as a mobile anti-dragon/wyvern unit, that type thing. So, no retreat, but a quick change of venue to prevent the town from falling any sooner than necessary.
> Does that make sense? Am I missing something?


----------



## AIM-54 (Jun 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Last time I asked about our possible entry/retreat plan I got this:




And no one has really addressed my comments, either to confirm that I my thinking was correct or to establish that I was wrong and what our real plan in fact is.

You have some good ideas in your previous post, but I think we need more feedback before we can definitely lay on one plan or another.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> And no one has really addressed my comments, either to confirm that I my thinking was correct or to establish that I was wrong and what our real plan in fact is.
> 
> You have some good ideas in your previous post, but I think we need more feedback before we can definitely lay on one plan or another.



My last few posts was just to throw out ideas and make sure we kept the previous ideas and thoughts posted... and I did respond and even asked a question back


----------



## Xath (Jun 22, 2004)

Well, if 2 people are dead and Xath is not one of them, we can pick up the dead and teleport behind the walls of Hyrule.  That would be Xath +3 people carrying the maximum load.

A bit grim, but a possibility, nonetheless.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

*just so I am not assuming anything....*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Well, if 2 people are dead and Xath is not one of them, we can pick up the dead and teleport behind the walls of Hyrule. That would be Xath +3 people carrying the maximum load.
> 
> A bit grim, but a possibility, nonetheless.



To ask the stupid question- how is the above teleport done-- Is teleport one of your spells? Done by going through ring gates?..... Any number of other options?....


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> And no one has really addressed my comments, either to confirm that I my thinking was correct or to establish that I was wrong and what our real plan in fact is.
> 
> You have some good ideas in your previous post, but I think we need more feedback before we can definitely lay on one plan or another.



 I can provide some feedback, Jeremiah.  

Yes, I think that that is the plan, in general.  Fight out in front of the walls as long as you can, and then get inside the walls to take care of anywhere that the wall falls, or anti-wyvern work, etc.


----------



## Xath (Jun 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> To ask the stupid question- how is the above teleport done-- Is teleport one of your spells? Done by going through ring gates?..... Any number of other options?....



 I'd use the boots.  I have one charge left on them today.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 22, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I'd use the boots.  I have one charge left on them today.



 If you plan on using the boots for this, how do you plan on getting to the battle site, itself?


----------



## Xath (Jun 22, 2004)

Well, we can't use the boots to get everyone there.  They don't transport enough people.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 22, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Well, we can't use the boots to get everyone there.  They don't transport enough people.



 Fair enough.  How _are _you going to get to Hyrwl from where you are currently, then?


----------



## Xath (Jun 22, 2004)

I vote we swim.  It'll be fun.


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I vote we swim. It'll be fun.



Can we have Kareth throw Arfin in first -full plate and all


----------



## AIM-54 (Jun 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Can we have Kareth throw Arfin in first -full plate and all




Sure, but Kaereth doesn't want to be on lifeguard duty this time.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> One question: Is justice calling Thane for the battle, is she having him attack during the battle, is she just keeping in for emergencies?




I hadn't planned on bringing Thane into it.  He is a powerful animal... but, he's not nearly as powerful as the dragons... they could kill him in one attack if they wanted.

However, if he becomes a vital part of the attack plan, I will call him.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Fair enough.  How _are _you going to get to Hyrwl from where you are currently, then?



 I'm sure this can be done with Thane and Kat's eagle... I just don't want Thane on the battlefield unless absolutely necessary.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 22, 2004)

As for retreat, I think teleportation would be the best option...  We would need scrolls, though. But, if we lack the resources for this particular course of action, I really don't know what to do.

What are the limitations of Dimension Door?  Is it only 80 feet?

We could get some potions of invisibility and just run like mad to get to the other side of the gates?

Call in the large magical animals?

Jump down, turn around, pick a bale of cotton?


----------



## AIM-54 (Jun 22, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> As for retreat, I think teleportation would be the best option...  We would need scrolls, though. But, if we lack the resources for this particular course of action, I really don't know what to do.
> 
> What are the limitations of Dimension Door?  Is it only 80 feet?
> 
> ...




Dimension Door depends on caster level, I believe.  Kaereth can do it as a 6th level caster (12/2=6) once per day.  The important thing is we have to get over the walls without going through the gate, so that means magic, I think.  We will be in battle, so scrolls might be difficult (especially because at that point we're probably all going to be in pitched melee).  We may be closer to the wall at that point, what with the pushing back by the horde o' evilTM, so Dimension Door might work, but I'm not certain of the exact capabilities of that particular spell, as I am still at work.  I think one can take others with one with DD, but I'm not certain if that's true and if it is true it pertains to the Monk ability.

The large animals might be a good backup plan in case everything goes FUBAR.


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 22, 2004)

The draconids vote for cotton picking.


----------



## AIM-54 (Jun 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The draconids vote for cotton picking.




Noted.  One vote for cotton picking.

Wait a minute...


----------



## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

I have no idea how dimension door and the other stuff works, but I'll trust ya'll on that one.

We could always split for the going out- Xath takes herself and three others via the boots to Hywrl. Ohtar invis. grabs two in his claws flys quickly away. The two airborn might not make it, but it would get four out fine.
Or if we get close enough to the wall Xath & Co. teleport to Hywrl, while the other two climb the wall with use of spider climb.


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## Laurel (Jun 22, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I'm sure this can be done with Thane and Kat's eagle... I just don't want Thane on the battlefield unless absolutely necessary.



Noted and where Thane can appear directly beside you it may be best to keep as back-up plan in case of FUBAR as Jeremiah mentioned.  
But just wanted to ask and see what you were thinking there.


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## Xath (Jun 23, 2004)

I agree with the draconids.

Make that 2 votes for cotton picking.


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## Archon (Jun 23, 2004)

*nothing much to add.*

i vote for vengence. zany, zany vengence.
mik aka "da tru steppa"


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## Xath (Jun 23, 2004)

Doin' da Bump,

I'm bored and I woke up early.  So start the posting!


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## The_Universe (Jun 23, 2004)

*Dimension Door*

Kaereth's ability is as follows: 

*Abundant Step (Su)*: At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. Her caster level for this effect is one-half her monk level (rounded down).

So, we know he can cast dimension door as a 6th level caster. However, the ability does say only that "the Monk" could slip magically between spaces. This would tend to imply that it's a personal ability. But let's look at the spell...

*


			
				PHB said:
			
		


			Components
		
Click to expand...


*


			
				PHB said:
			
		

> : V






			
				PHB said:
			
		

> *Casting Time*: 1 standard action
> *Range*: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
> *Target*: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures *Duration*: Instantaneous
> *Saving Throw*: None and Will negates (object)
> ...



So, according to the spell description, he could jump 640 ft with it, carrying 2 medium creatures. 

Although the ability would seem to narrow the effect to Kaereth alone, I'll let you have the full benefit of the spell, as long as the 2 medium characters are smaller than his max load.


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## Xath (Jun 23, 2004)

Xath can cast dimension door once per day as well, so between she and Kaereth, everyone should be able to escape behind the wall.  Xath can DD 800ft.


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## Laurel (Jun 23, 2004)

Or we have six people right? 
Kareth takes two person with DD
Xath takes two people with the shoes

Unless it doesn't cost you a spell, I would say Xath needs/should keep her spells for the fighting and mind game aspect of the battle.
But hey either way works for me, so it is really however you want to work it.


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## Laurel (Jun 23, 2004)

Do we want to split up? One group with Orcs, the other with group in Hwyrl.  
Out of game: This does take more time and has one group doing nothing while one group attacks/acts.
In game: It may be good to have someone from our side back there.
Personally, I have no leaning toward one way, but wanted to see/ask the ups and downs from everyone... or just a "no, we do it this way" answer.


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## The_Universe (Jun 23, 2004)

Well, if even one person is using DD, you now know how far from the wall you can get: 640 feet.


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## Laurel (Jun 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, if even one person is using DD, you now know how far from the wall you can get: 640 feet.



I thought we were going to be between 60-100 feet away, so we do get some benifit from the wall.  60 ft. is range for short bows and 100 feet is range for longbows.  I could be wrong here though...... ?

Either way we definately need to be within the 640ft. then.


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## The_Universe (Jun 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Do we want to split up? One group with Orcs, the other with group in Hwyrl.
> Out of game: This does take more time and has one group doing nothing while one group attacks/acts.
> In game: It may be good to have someone from our side back there.
> Personally, I have no leaning toward one way, but wanted to see/ask the ups and downs from everyone... or just a "no, we do it this way" answer.



 There is a definite possibility of time crunch if you split up, but not an insurmountable one.  

However, there may not be much you can do as characters if you go back to the Black Orcs, especially if (secretly) you hope they all just die, anyway.  If you need to change their orders, you'll have to get a messenger of some sort back there, but I think you're probably better off defending the people whom you actually hope will live through the battle.


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## Laurel (Jun 23, 2004)

Cool-- So no -yeah we are winning, opps we just killed all the orcs....


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## The_Universe (Jun 23, 2004)

Right.  Probably not.  But, I suppose, one never knows...


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## Laurel (Jun 23, 2004)

*none of this comes from my original thought--*

We currently have--
_For exit plan:_
We get into the circle formation.  Once we are surrounded, engaged in heavy melee, etc., Kareth Abundant Step with two people (must be within 640 ft. of destination) and Xath teleports, using the shoes, with two people or she uses Dimension Door with two people (must be within 800 ft. of destination).
Both groups have the destination of Hywrl where we will fight some more.
Thane is kept in reserve for FUBAR.

_For entry plan:_
Ohtar can drop us off 60 feet from wall --lets see if the little archers under the woodshadow banner have learned enough to be any good-- and then he returns to Hywrl (for further guarding/protecting Dorn).  
Ohtar can only carry 800 pounds, though.  With gear I have no idea what our average weight is, but I am sure it is more then 133 pounds.  Kareth can run as fast as O. can fly (80 ft.), but I am not sure if this would place Kareth in the fatigued category.  If he could run the distance without fatigue issues it would mean our average weight could be 160 pounds.
We can also, if it a short enough trip, just stick someone in the bag of holding... not exactly the optimal way to travel I know, but no chance of fatigue.
If this works in anyone else's mind then we do not have to waste coin or magic on getting into place.


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## Archon (Jun 23, 2004)

*two birds with one battle*

no one goes with the orcs. they'll be fine without us. in fact i DO hope that they just end up dying.
party.


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## The_Universe (Jun 23, 2004)

Even Hurk?


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## AIM-54 (Jun 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Even Hurk?




That Archon's a mean one, eh?


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## Laurel (Jun 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Even Hurk?



Just another one to add to the Arhcon death list.


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## The_Universe (Jun 24, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> That Archon's a mean one, eh?



 That's the understatement of the millenium.  

Also, thanks to everyone for helping make Mik's B-day surprise a success.  You're all AWESOME!


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## Archon (Jun 24, 2004)

*b-day*

yeah, thanks guys, a lot. i mean it. the whole party was a complete surprise and it meant a lot to me. more then i'm going to admit to.  
anyway, yeah you can just add the entire black orc nation to Archon's List.
mik aka "Lonestar.....sure"


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## The_Universe (Jun 24, 2004)

As always, we're glad to do it.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 24, 2004)

Gentleman and ladies, this thread has grown to a size where it could affect the database in bad ways.  This could include loss of speed, and also the chance of loss of data, mainly this thread, so I need you to discuses amongst yourself where you would like to see this thread broken up, it’s probably going into thirds so I need a post around 500 and another around a 1000. 

Thanks,
BS
PbP Moderator

PS is this whole group in the Virginia area?


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## The_Universe (Jun 25, 2004)

Brother,  

I just gave the thread a look.  I don't see much problem in whacking the thread at 500 and 1000 exactly, so long as the old threads will be archived somewhere.  

By no means do we want to lose access to the thread, or cause any of the other users any problems.  

However, as the DM of this little gang of hooligans, I have come to use the thread for some book-keeping, and archiving of ideas, etc.  So, if we're going to lose the older posts, let me know what I can do to archive them on my personal computer.  

Thanks for the update, Brother Shatterstone, and God Bless!

An PS--yeah.  We're all in the Washington DC Metro area, and all but one of us is in  Northern Virginia.  If you want to stop by, just drop us a line.  EN-folk are always welcome around here.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 25, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I just gave the thread a look.  I don't see much problem in whacking the thread at 500 and 1000 exactly, so long as the old threads will be archived somewhere.




Great sounds like a plan. 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> However, as the DM of this little gang of hooligans, I have come to use the thread for some book-keeping, and archiving of ideas, etc.  So, if we're going to lose the older posts, let me know what I can do to archive them on my personal computer.




Well this is my first attempt at it so I'm not sure how well I'm going to go...    

Though your data is safe, I made a copy of the thread, closed it, so if something goes horrible wrong than I will simply sweep the busted up thread under the rug and reopen the copy for you guys. 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> An PS--yeah.  We're all in the Washington DC Metro area, and all but one of us is in  Northern Virginia.  If you want to stop by, just drop us a line.  EN-folk are always welcome around here.



Cool, there is like chance I'll make it to DC anytime soon, I would need to change divisions and get tapped on the shoulder for school in Manassas.  If it happens I'll make sure to look you guys up. 

Anyhow, I'm working on the thread now, if you guys could be nice enough not to post in this thread until I give the go ahead that would be appreciated.  (I'm not sure what would happen to your posts.)


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 25, 2004)

Okay, I'm not really done...  It didn't go as planed and my backup thread appears to have had the same modifications done to it…. 

So I’m not sure what happened.  

Universe if you would could you make a new OOC thread and I will drop a link in this thread to it? And I will continue to work on this one...


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## The_Universe (Jun 26, 2004)

I am not sure if it's alright to post here or not, but I wanted to wish you luck on splitting up all of our posts.  

I'll go ahead and make another thread right now.  I assume you can find the link yourself?  

Lastly, I may have misinterpreted your second to last post, but I'm guessing you're military?    If so, as "Archon" can tell you, we're soldier-friendly.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 26, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I am not sure if it's alright to post here or not, but I wanted to wish you luck on splitting up all of our posts.



Thanks...  I need it, this thread is missing about 200 posts, and the copy I made of it before hand is missing about 1100 posts...  :\   (Unsure how I managed to to do that but toghter there is more post than the orginal thead had so I don't think we lost any...) 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> I'll go ahead and make another thread right now.  I assume you can find the link yourself?




Yup sure did.  OOC Discussion for A Kingdom of Ashes (The Battle of the Alder's Forest, and Beyond)  



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Lastly, I may have misinterpreted your second to last post, but I'm guessing you're military?    If so, as "Archon" can tell you, we're soldier-friendly.



Yeah I'm active duty, though I would be a sailor. 

I'm closing this thread. 

Everyone please go to:  OOC Discussion for A Kingdom of Ashes (The Battle of the Alder's Forest, and Beyond)


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