# Rules for Creating Character higher than 1st Level



## zlorf (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi,

Does anyone have any advice or house rules they use for bring in new character into the campaign? Especially if their starting level is above 1st, ie 10th level.

How do you deal with character wealth, create magic item feats, gold saved, magic items bought...etc?

As the rules are writen, a mage with Create Magic Item feats can make most of their items for 1/2 the price, normally without time restraints.  There's pro's and cons, the same Mage starting from 1st lvl could also do the same and even  make stuff for the other PC in the party.

Is it feasible for a  new character to have 30000gp in gems and then spend it on 2-3 magic items or not spend a large ammount of gold,  where a PC starting from 1st, buys cheaper magic items to survive and spends gold on healing, upkeep, potions etc.
 I guess the con for the new character is that they dont find magic items from battles, adventuring etc.

Cheers
Z


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## Kae'Yoss (Feb 1, 2007)

Well, you give them wealth based either on the charts in the DMG (character wealth above 1st level) or on the average of what the rest of the party has (if their wealth significantly differs form the norm, the new guy may have a huge (dis-)advantage)

The usual rule is that he may not spend more than 50% of his total wealth on one item (so if the character starts with 40.000, he can't just get a periapt of wisdom +6 for 36.000)

For item creation: Note that this also costs XP, so he'll have to deduct that XP from his total (which might leave him at a lower level than he otherwise would - if they're only 500 XP above 10th-level when he drops in, and he creates stuff for 1000% XP, he'll only be 9th-level)

Beyond that, you might want to give him a limit "no more than items worth X gp may be created by yourself), and of course he must have access to the proper feats and spells (which might mean that he has to pay others to cast the spell for him - don't let the "my friend the cleric cast that spell for me each day for nothing" count).

I would base the max amount of items he can create himself on the down-time the party had so far: 

If they were being chased from one spot to the other all the time, with hardly a minute of spare time to heal or write a spell in the spellbook, You might only allow very little crafting.

If they had one dungeon crawl a year for the last 10 years, he may blow all his money on creating items (still subject to XP limits and levels, of course)

Ways to limit his crafting are
total market price
total crafting cost in XP
total crafting cost in materials
Total days used (this could vary wildly depending on what items he makes. giving him 8 days could mean two stat boosters +2 or 8 0-level scrolls.

Finally, make sure that he was even able to create the stuff yet: Minimum caster levels and so on.


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## cmanos (Feb 1, 2007)

Starting Wealth is easy, there is a table for it in the DMG.  Don't have the book in front of me at the moment, so I can't say where.

Magic items bought is also easy.  Deduct the cost from your starting wealth.  Some DM's have a house rule that you can't spend more than a certain amount of gold (most often heard is 1/2 starting wealth) on any one item.

Crafting items......you, as a DM need to decide if you are going to allow this.  This gets even hairier when you are talking about artificers from ECS, their craft pool and their ability to retain essence on items.  The easy way around it is to say you can only craft after you start the character.  The more difficult way is to approve everything the character wants to make.  It is your choice.  There are no rules govorning it.


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## starwed (Feb 1, 2007)

> where a PC starting from 1st, buys cheaper magic items to survive and spends gold on healing, upkeep, potions etc.



Actually, the PC wealth tables are supposed to take this into account.



> Some DM's have a house rule that you can't spend more than a certain amount of gold (most often heard is 1/2 starting wealth) on any one item.



I think this "house rule" is actually in the DMG.  ^_^  I think your next most expensive item can't be more than 1/4 starting wealth, too.  It's supposed to address the concern that a new high level character should have purchased some cheap items along the way.


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## Kae'Yoss (Feb 2, 2007)

starwed said:
			
		

> I think this "house rule" is actually in the DMG.




Yes, but as far as I know it's marked as optional.


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## Darklone (Feb 2, 2007)

I do take care the Feats are taken correctly... and I like to see some low level survivability in the char.


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## GorTeX (Feb 2, 2007)

I've seen DM's allow players with crafting feats to buy magical items at 75% of cost (only the ones they could have made of course).


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## Jeff Wilder (Feb 2, 2007)

The interesting thing about the "one-half max wealth" house rules is that an assortment of cheaper items will usually be more powerful than a single more expensive item of the same cost.

You can have five +2 stat enhancers and a +4 stat enhancer for the same price as a single +6 stat enhancer, for instance.

IMO, you're better off limiting higher-level starting PCs by _number_ of items, rather than by cost.  Otherwise you risk have characters wearing so much magic that they looks like Christmas trees.


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## Mistwell (Feb 2, 2007)

DMG pg 135 table 5-1: Character Wealth by Level
Char lvl Wealth (gp)
1
2 900
3 2700
4 5400
5 9000
6 13000
7 19000
8 27000
9 36000
10 49000
11 66000
12 88000
13 110000
14 150000
15 200000
16 260000
17 340000
18 440000
19 580000
20 760000 

DMG Page 42 under "Making a New Character" it says:

"As a general rule, a new character can spend no more than half her total wealth on any single item, and no more than one quarter the total wealth on consumables such as ammunition, scrolls, potions, wands, or alchemical items."

See also:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a

"A reasonable cost for a single item that such a character might own would be somewhere between 10% and 40% of the character's total wealth."


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## Li Shenron (Feb 3, 2007)

Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> The interesting thing about the "one-half max wealth" house rules is that an assortment of cheaper items will usually be more powerful than a single more expensive item of the same cost.




Aboslutely true.   

The other interesting thing is that this house rule is regarded by most gamers as a way not to let PC be too powerful


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## Li Shenron (Feb 3, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> DMG Page 42 under "Making a New Character" it says:
> 
> "As a general rule, a new character can spend no more than half her total wealth on any single item, and no more than one quarter the total wealth on consumables such as ammunition, scrolls, potions, wands, or alchemical items."




Doh!! I cannot find this in my 3.0 DMG... Is it a 3.5 thing? 

Here in the 3.0 DMG "Creating Characters above 1st level", after the wealth by level table, I find only a paragraph "Limitation on Magic Items".

It starts brilliantly with a "You're *free *to limit characters to what items they can choose..."   

Then it actually gives an example that with 27000gp total you can limit each item to 5000gp.

I think these kind of limitation rules have a couple of good points:
- first they may prevent having item with specific powers too soon (e.g. an item with teleportation, before the characters can normally have teleportation spells -> but can this happen really? a deeper study of item gp costs would be interesting)
- second they result in PCs which are more similar to what they would be if they had been actually played through all the levels

However, I just prefer to be told I'm free to do what I think it's best for my game, instead of being told "it's the rule, if you don't like it change it but you're on your own".


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## Thanee (Feb 3, 2007)

Li Shenron said:
			
		

> The other interesting thing is that this house rule is regarded by most gamers as a way not to let PC be too powerful




Nah, it's just to protect them from their own greediness. 

Bye
Thanee


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## el-remmen (Feb 3, 2007)

How do folks handle # of starting spells for a wizard coming into a game at higher level, or is that covered in DMG as well and I have just missed it?


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## Christian (Feb 3, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> How do folks handle # of starting spells for a wizard coming into a game at higher level, or is that covered in DMG as well and I have just missed it?




I don't think there's anything in the books. One common choice is to give the wizard the free spells she would have learned at first level, and charge against the starting gear value an amount equal to the scroll price plus the scribing cost for each additional spell. So each additional first-level spell costs 125 GP (25 GP for the scroll of the spell and 100 GP in scribing costs), each second-level costs 350 GP (150 GP for the scroll and 200 GP to scribe), etc.


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## Li Shenron (Feb 3, 2007)

Christian said:
			
		

> I don't think there's anything in the books. One common choice is to give the wizard the free spells she would have learned at first level, and charge against the starting gear value an amount equal to the scroll price plus the scribing cost for each additional spell. So each additional first-level spell costs 125 GP (25 GP for the scroll of the spell and 100 GP in scribing costs), each second-level costs 350 GP (150 GP for the scroll and 200 GP to scribe), etc.




All the spells for levelling up are "free" of cost.

Any extra spell that he wants to have scribed will cost at least the scribing cost.

Then it could be slightly debated about the scroll cost: 25 x spell level x CL (IIRC). Because in theory a wizard can also copy spells from other friendly wizards (50 x spell level), or buy/find/steal someone else's spellbooks, which I think are not easy to price...


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## rbingham2000 (Feb 4, 2007)

Also, if you have the PHB II, it has a rundown right at the end on quick creation of higher-level PCs, including quick rundowns on what each point of magical enhancement costs in GP, and it even throws in a standard Adventurer's Kit for those of us who aren't really crazy about picking our way through the equipment section of the PHB for a good half-an-hour or more. There's plenty of room for deviation from the standard characters that this system tends to create.


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## Quartz (Feb 4, 2007)

With regard to item creation, I'd suggest being generous as long as the character can make the thing on his own. This means having the ability to create Masterwork items when Taking 10 in the appropriate Craft (i.e. the character has 10 ranks in the skill, after bonuses), as well as the feats.


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## Kae'Yoss (Feb 4, 2007)

Jeff Wilder said:
			
		

> The interesting thing about the "one-half max wealth" house rules is that an assortment of cheaper items will usually be more powerful than a single more expensive item of the same cost.




It depends on many things. I guess I'd say that in many instances, several cheaper items that are similar will be better than one stronger of the same general type.

Like a +5 Armour costs 25000, but a +2 armour, as well as +1 shield, +1 ring of protection and +1 amulet of natural armour only costs 9000 (assuming he'd have a masterwork armour and shield, anyway)



> You can have five +2 stat enhancers and a +4 stat enhancer for the same price as a single +6 stat enhancer, for instance.




That one, on the other hand, is a lot less clear, because often, the extra +2 on your primary stat will be more useful than +2 on everything else.

Let's consider a wizard: +6 int or +4 int and +2 everything else? Well, he might be okay with +2 Dex and Con, which is good for defense, and dex a bit for offense, too (rays). But He he'll probably won't mind them too much, and Str, Wis and Cha even less, if that means getting another +2 Int, with more spells, more powerful spells and spells that are harder to defend against.




> IMO, you're better off limiting higher-level starting PCs by _number_ of items, rather than by cost.  Otherwise you risk have characters wearing so much magic that they looks like Christmas trees.




Well, they're already limited by their item slots. 

Plus, why wouldn't you allow the new fighter to take magic armour, magic shield, magic ring and magic amulet (all for AC) if the existing fighter in the group will already have bought them. You don't force them to upgrade other things before they buy new ones, do you?


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## Gooba42 (Mar 5, 2007)

Easiest, or so I hear, is to grant XP up to level 10 rather than simply 10 levels. XP deductions and level adjustments are then able to be taken into account.

I'm not sure if it was DMG or PHBII where I pulled this from but the wealth per level is actually calculable as a wealth per XP. The charts give you 0.9 GP per XP. Even if your character is behind levels because of level adjustment or because you spent your XP making stuff you'll still receive full monetary credit for having done the same amount of adventuring.


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## Dross (Mar 6, 2007)

A couple of house rule things that I do (we play in FR).

A history of some sort: Allows for hooks, but mechanic wise it shows a PC's ability to meet things like Regional Feat requirements.

If multiclassed, give a reason consistent with your history what your starting class is (esp important for rogue x4 skill points etc). 

I've never started high enough for people to qualify for PrC's but all RP requirements need to be met in game. This was negotiable for higher level starts tho'

Also in a more RP sense:
Try to find a reason in game for why you will stay with the other PC's.
My campgains have had a theme and area/region so PCs needed to fit into that theme and provide an explanation as to why they would be in the area.


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## Legildur (Mar 6, 2007)

Gooba42 said:
			
		

> Easiest, or so I hear, is to grant XP up to level 10 rather than simply 10 levels. XP deductions and level adjustments are then able to be taken into account.



That's a good idea.  Or maybe providing a small allowance for the construction of magical items without harming levels.



			
				Gooba42 said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if it was DMG or PHBII where I pulled this from but the wealth per level is actually calculable as a wealth per XP. The charts give you 0.9 GP per XP.



I have not seen this anywhere!  And I've also seen many threads asking for 'starting gold for xth level character' where no one has ever been able to identify a set pattern.... IDHMBIFOM, but this is a great rule of thumb if it works out. Thanks!

PS Or possibly I'm confusing it with the xp charts....  :\


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## DarkJester (Mar 6, 2007)

It works fairly well till about level 8.


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## Gooba42 (Mar 6, 2007)

Legildur said:
			
		

> That's a good idea.  Or maybe providing a small allowance for the construction of magical items without harming levels.
> 
> I have not seen this anywhere!  And I've also seen many threads asking for 'starting gold for xth level character' where no one has ever been able to identify a set pattern.... IDHMBIFOM, but this is a great rule of thumb if it works out. Thanks!
> 
> PS Or possibly I'm confusing it with the xp charts....  :\




The 0.9 per XP is something I had to pick out of the combined charts myself. I may have screwed up the numbers at some point but I did a couple spot checks and they matched up so it's the system I'm using in any case.

Edit: Yeah, it breaks at 6th level but isn't a big problem until 8th. I'm not certain if there's a pattern here and my algebra skills are rusty so I'm not about to reverse engineer the formula for the exponential progression.

I've got a spreadsheet I update session to session that calculates totals and averages for party wealth, xp, level and splits out wealth as cash and wealth as item value so I can keep an eye on how much and what type of wealth everyone has or needs. If I ever have a player complaint, I've actually got an audit trail showing how far ahead or behind their character is from the actual and ideal wealth factors.

Edit: Changed my spreadsheet now to reflect the PHBII chart using a vlookup to another sheet. Aside from "Go read PHB II" I don't know how to give any advice on this topic until some enterprising soul works out a general formula.

I'm relatively new to DMing but fairly good at spreadsheets so any calculable guideline I can find is a good thing.


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## irdeggman (Mar 7, 2007)

That is why I always choose to start PCs out with a set xp total instead of a specific level. Then those with creat item feats can spend from that total.

Here is what I did with a recent Age of Worms start.

Characters start with 1,200 xp (second level plus some).  If a character has an item creation feat they can create some items using this xp pool. Subtract any material costs from the starting wealth below. Also, if you want to “convert” some of this xp to starting funds in order to purchase more/better equipment you may do so at a rate of 2gp/xp.  You can spend xp such that your character is actually below 1,000 if desired. The character will then be a 1st level character though.  During the course of this Adventure path PCs will advance to 20th level (perhaps to epic level depending on how things go and their mortality rate {insert DM evil laugh}).


PCs start with 950 gp with which to purchase gear. Standard gear is considered “free”.  See later for “standard gear”. The restriction on having no single item worth more than 25% of this amount does not apply. That is, you may spend all of this on a single item, if desired.  Spend your money – PCs will be starting with essentially no cash on hand (limited to 10 sp in cash). This is one of the “incentives” for PC involvement in the adventure. Spellcasters that have a spell component pouch (5 gp in the PHB) don’t need to keep track of spell components, except for costly or rare (as in very unique) ones, divine focuses or focuses that wouldn’t fit in the pouch. For initial equipment, everything is available and “book” value.  This won’t always be the case, however. Diamond Lake is a “poor” community and stock is limited so don’t always count on being able to buy what you want.


“Standard” Equipment:  
Backpack; Bedroll; belt pouch; Blanket; flint and steel; rope (50 ft) – hempen; 5 torches; 2 sacks; 2 water/wine skins; 1 week’s worth of trail rations; whetstone; 2 sets of clothing (no more than an explorer’s outfit in cost each); 1 dagger (doubles as a knife). If you can think of something along these lines that you want to include – let me know and I’ll probably say its fine.


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## just__al (Mar 7, 2007)

Li Shenron said:
			
		

> All the spells for levelling up are "free" of cost.
> 
> Any extra spell that he wants to have scribed will cost at least the scribing cost.
> 
> Then it could be slightly debated about the scroll cost: 25 x spell level x CL (IIRC). Because in theory a wizard can also copy spells from other friendly wizards (50 x spell level), or buy/find/steal someone else's spellbooks, which I think are not easy to price...




I let characters add spells to their spell books  that are the sum of their wizard levels (so 10 spell levels for a 4th level character) for the cost of scribing only.  Anything after that is scroll + scribing.

I also limit characters to one item no more costly than 40% of starting wealth and no other item more costly than 20%

I will stretch those limits ever so slightly if the charcter wants something that costs slightly over 40% but it costs them a decent backstory.


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## lottrbacchus (Mar 7, 2007)

starting magic items: as li (i think) pointed out, 3.0 had the example of limiting a character with 27,000 to 5,000 per item.  from this, we decided that an item can cost up to 1/5th of the character's starting wealth.  we carried this forward into 3.5.  so the new 11th level characters in my game can have items up to 13,200 in value.

what about characters that can make their own?  well, *ducks*, that doesn't change starting inventory.  that you could have made a nice ring for half price is balance by the fact that you could have also made and used a boat load of consumable items that you no longer have.  the starting total is made for game balance, and so it stands.

that said, one could keep some starting wealth aside, "ah yes, i was just about to start making whineypeecee's staff of ultimate power".


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## nittanytbone (Mar 7, 2007)

For item creation, just charge "living expenses."  The cost of a room's board and food are listed in the SRD.  Also remember to charge for any hirelings that might be part of the retinue.  The costs add up fairly quickly, at least for non-magical craft-skill usage.


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