# Possible Legal Problem



## Khan the Warlord (May 13, 2002)

I have recently discovered many people have a pirated .pdf-playtest version of the _Epic Level Handbook_ and now see the Morrus has allowed a "scoop" to be added to the main site, directly ripped from this pirated .pdf.

Now, my question is: Is this a prudent action? I mean, could EN World be liable for the release of this news or indirect support of these pirated playtest copies?

I'm not supporting or acting against piracy -- I'm mainly concerned for EN World and wanted to ask the mods here (and Morrus) if the news blurb should continue to be posted about it.

Disclaimer: No offense is intended to either Morrus or EN World, I'm just a loyal supporter of this site.

(And I did wonder if I should send this via an email to Morrus, but I wanted the quickest avenue for him to be aware of it. If I'm wrong about the legal issues, then my apologies and just delete this post.)


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## Piratecat (May 13, 2002)

The person legally responsible is the jerk who allowed his playtest copy to slip out; this sort of leak is in extremely bad form from someone who has signed a NDA.  However, Morrus (and EN World) have no legal liability here; he is just repeating a rumor which may or may not be true.

In any event, it's good free advertising for the product!!


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## XCorvis (May 13, 2002)

I don't think it will be a problem - WotC isn't horrible with that kind of stuff, and there are plenty of movie rumor sites that operate on the same principle.


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## Khan the Warlord (May 13, 2002)

Well, that's great news.

Just go ahead and delete this thread then.


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## Morrus (May 14, 2002)

I hadn't heard of a pirate pdf at all.  As far as I'm concerned, this is just a random rumour - I don't even know if it's true.  If WotC does have a problem with it, then I'll remove it, but I don't see that it's an issue.  It certainly doesn't replicate any content form the book.


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## Darkness (May 14, 2002)

Khan the Warlord said:
			
		

> *Well, that's great news.
> 
> Just go ahead and delete this thread then.  *



We would, but deleting is currently only possible during low-traffic times...


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## Khan the Warlord (May 14, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *I hadn't heard of a pirate pdf at all.  As far as I'm concerned, this is just a random rumour - I don't even know if it's true. *




Yes, it is circulating rather quickly.


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## Leopold (May 14, 2002)

Khan the Warlord said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yes, it is circulating rather quickly.
> 
> *




just to test your theory: It has not hit kazaa yet or DC so so far it's out of the masses hands.


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## Darkness (May 14, 2002)

Khan the Warlord said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yes, it is circulating rather quickly.
> 
> *



Most interesting rumors tend to do that.


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## Khan the Warlord (May 14, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *
> 
> just to test your theory: It has not hit kazaa yet or DC so so far it's out of the masses hands. *




And if those were the only methods of getting it into the hands of thousands and thousands, then I would agree with you.

But, they aren't and I don't.


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## Darkness (May 14, 2002)

Khan the Warlord said:
			
		

> *
> 
> And if those were the only methods of getting it into the hands of thousands and thousands, then I would agree with you.
> 
> ...



Query: Do you mean to say that "thousands and thousands" already have gotten this file?


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## Khan the Warlord (May 14, 2002)

Darkness said:
			
		

> *Query: Do you mean to say that "thousands and thousands" already have gotten this file? *




Answer: I have no idea how many have gotten the file yet (I only wish I was omniscient), but I do know that the file is on certain venues capable of delivering it to "thousands".

And to be honest, it doesn't really matter _how_ one can get it, as once someone does, it can easily be sent to everyone in one's address book, who then pass it along to many others afterwards.

However it happens, I only hope that it doesn't change WotC's policies regarding playtesters (which will probably occur).


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## Rune (May 15, 2002)

Khan the Warlord said:
			
		

> *
> However it happens, I only hope that it doesn't change WotC's policies regarding playtesters (which will probably occur). *




Heh.  Why not?  Eric's site changed WotC's policies regarding playtesting!


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## Morrus (May 15, 2002)

Rune said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Heh.  Why not?  Eric's site changed WotC's policies regarding playtesting! *




I must've missed that - what happened?  I remember something about Dragon Magazine and a slight snaffle involving publishing of errata or sage advice or something along those lines, but I don't remember anything about playtesting.


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## EricNoah (May 15, 2002)

I'm not sure if he's joking, but he might be referring to a rumored instruction for playtesters that specifically mentioned my site by name (as in "do not pass scoops to Eric Noah").

If you think about it, though, the playtesting of many products over the past couple of years has been nothing short of astounding in terms of how little stuff has leaked out.  I mean there are five builds of Master Tools for the beta testers and have we heard one thing about folks downloading it en masse?  No.  WotC should be very pleased at how well it has gone thus far.


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## Henry (May 15, 2002)

Whether you are outsourcing your playtesting or not, leaks will occur here and there. (Anyone remember the only way in which three people will keep a secret? ) However, Eric is right - WotC I hope should be quite proud of their playtesters thus far. Out of the thousands who have been involved in playtesting over the years, they've only had about - what - two major leaks, I believe?


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## Khan the Warlord (May 15, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *
> If you think about it, though, the playtesting of many products over the past couple of years has been nothing short of astounding in terms of how little stuff has leaked out.  I mean there are five builds of Master Tools for the beta testers and have we heard one thing about folks downloading it en masse?  No.  WotC should be very pleased at how well it has gone thus far. *




Exactly, which is why I was so surprised to see this .pdf leaked (as I've yet seen any playtested material of 3rd edition or D&D software like MT leaked up to this point).

And like I said before, my only purpose with this thread was to ensure that EN World wouldn't be held accountable by indirectly supporting this leak (by posting a news blurb from someone that obviously has the playtest material). Anyway, its been pointed out that I needlessly worried and EN World wouldn't be liable, so this thread doesn't really need to be.


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## Khan the Warlord (May 16, 2002)

Here is an example on these forums of yet another person that got this pirated playtest copy.

Now yes, this is a "new member" (I'm guessing it is an existing member that doesn't wish to reveal their identity), but before anyone wonders -- he/she isn't me (do whatever check you wish).

/me ponders on just how many people have this now...


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## xmanii (May 16, 2002)

Khan the Warlord said:
			
		

> */me ponders on just how many people have this now... *




I was able to find it.


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## reutbing0 (May 16, 2002)

A lot of people have it by now I guess. I was able to find the file in 20 minutes. I don't know how much piracy like this will affect sales, but my guess is that WotC will not tolerate this. I do think it will seriously affect playtesting.


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## Khan the Warlord (May 16, 2002)

If entire feat descriptions and monster descriptions are listed in the thread above, does it warrant being locked down/deleted?

/me just wondering, as it seems to be getting more and more informative in there...


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## Khan the Warlord (May 17, 2002)

*frickin' bump*

/me watches the thread in GD continue in amazement and wonders where the moderators are in this forum so that my latest question can be answered


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## Piratecat (May 17, 2002)

No, I don't believe it does yet. Eric and Morrus (or any of the other moderators) are free to overrule me on this one, of course.

Here's why:

Reading that, is anyone saying, "Wow, i now have enough information that I don't want to buy the book"?  No, they're saying, "Cool! I want to buy this ASAP!"  And that's a good thing.

Should anyone offer to make the pdf available, however, that'll change awfully quickly.  You have to use good judgement on how much is appropriate.


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## Khan the Warlord (May 18, 2002)

Glad to see its closed now, but I hate the fact that Andy Collins had to be the one to inspire that it be done and now he's stated that WotC playtesting will be changed.

/me just walks away, hating being right as usual


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## xmanii (May 18, 2002)

Khan the Warlord said:
			
		

> *Glad to see its closed now, but I hate the fact that Andy Collins had to be the one to inspire that it be done and now he's stated that WotC playtesting will be changed.*




Got a link for that?


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## Darkness (May 18, 2002)

xmanii said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Got a link for that? *



Hmm... Maybe he's referring to the following:



> _Originally posted by Andy_Collins on Malik Doom's thread_
> *In case it's not clear, this activity represents an awfully good way to ensure that external playtesting ENDS. It's a privilege, not a right, and people like "Malik Doom"--and, frankly, everyone encouraging such efforts--are busy putting nails in the coffin.*


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