# how many spells should a 9th level wizard have in spellbook?



## 00durrin (Oct 7, 2002)

how many spells would a ninth level wizard have in his spellbook?  i'm starting a 9th level wizard who has a very high intelligence.  how many spells should he have in his book(s)?  my DM and I are at a loss.  he's old and has been around

1st?
2nd?
3rd?
4th?
5th?

how do you guys handle it in your campaigns?  my dm suggested 3*# of spells per level per day...i.e. 12 for 0 level if you didn't already have all of them because of what the phb says (3*4 because level 9 wiz gets 4 0 level spells per day)


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## boothbey (Oct 7, 2002)

There is a rule in the player's handbook under wizard that at each level you gain two spells of any level that you can cast at the new level.  And at first level you start with three spells per point of inteligence bonus, plus one extra spell.

So for levels two through nine you get...16 free spells.  Don't know what your int bonus is.

As you are starting at 9th, I would limit you to 2 fifth level spells.  Those are the free ones you got for achieving 9th.

Then you would have the remaining 14 spells to distribute fairly evenly among levels 1-4.  

As a bonus to account for the usual slaying of enemy wizards and taking their spell books I would award

1st Level Spells = Int Bonus x 4 in spells
2nd Level Spells = Int Bonus x 3
3rd Level Spells = Int Bonus x2
4th Level Spells = Int Bonus

This of course gives a ton of lower level spells which I think is reasonable.

Oh..ph also says you start with all 0 level spells at first level.


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## Mr Fidgit (Oct 7, 2002)

hey 00durrin!

i've never had to handle something like this, games i've run and played in _always_ start at first level. i think this sounds like a fair idea. if i understand your system, it would work like this (for a 9th level wizard):

0 (all)
1st - 12
2nd - 12
3rd - 9
4th - 6
5th - 3

if this is the system you decide to use, you could always ask your DM if you can use some of your starting funds to aquire, learn and scribe more spells. i might even allow the PC to have learned these extra spells directly from another caster, to lower the cost to the base price of scribing a spell in a spellbook (100 gp/page). (as opposed to having to buy a spell on a scroll and _then_ scribe it.)

if you do use this system, i would definately be a specialist!

0 (all - except banned school spells)
1st - 12+3=15
2nd - 12+3=15
3rd - 9+3=12
4th - 6+3=9
5th - 3+3=6


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## hong (Oct 7, 2002)

I say, toss wizards and play sorcerers instead. Makes life _so_ much easier all round.


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## Destil (Oct 7, 2002)

All cantrips
5 + int bonus 1st level spells
4 2nd level or lower spells 
4 3rd level or lower spells
4 4th level or lower spells
2 5th level or lower spells

Thoes are the spells you get for free from gaining levels and as a 1st level wizard (the Int bonus would be whatever your int was at 1st level, if you want to worry about that).

Aside from that, you can buy scrolls & scribe them normaly with the GP you get. A 9th level PC starts with 36000GP. A scroll costs 37.5 GP / spell level. Scribing costs 200 GP per spell level (and you can fit 50 spell levels into a spellbook. Cantrips count as level 1/2, of coruse).

Note that your DM may require you to make spellcraft checks to scribe these spells. The DC is 15+spell level. Being completly accurate with this is a major pain, because you need to determin what level you were when you aquired each scroll, and the roll once for each time you gain a level, using the increasing spellcraft bonus. A fast, easy way, is to just roll as if you had whatever your 9th level spellcraft bonus was once per spell. Not perfect, but it takes into account the fact that you had more chances to learn easier spells by simply giving you a higher bonus to your one chance. And any scrolls you buy but fail the spell-craft roll for you'll still have as scrolls, and won't cost anything to scribe.


EDIT: Note: when I say buy and scribe, I mean assume this had happened as you leveled up, not once the game had started. Simply count the spells you want against your starting GP, and roll to see if you were able to learn them as normal.


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## Thanee (Oct 7, 2002)

Starting spells + free level up spells + as many spells as he would like and can afford with the money you get for resources!

Bye
Thanee


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## warpmind (Oct 7, 2002)

There's a T&B Enhancement at WOTC webpage where you can find examples of the spellbooks of wizards of 1st to 20th level. It might be useful for you.


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## Shard O'Glase (Oct 7, 2002)

as has been pointed out you should have 36,000GP scroll cost 25xspell levelx caster level(buy at abse caster elvel), scribing cost is 200gp a spell level.  You get 2 free spells every level you advance, and at 1st elvel you get spell equal to your int bonus.  

figure out your free spells, then figure out how much GP you want to drop into other spells and how much you want to drop into equipment for survival like bracers of amor.  

One thing Baccobs Blessed Book allows you to scribe scrolls into it for free.  Only cost will be the scroll costs.  It costs 9,000gp on the amrket 4,500 gp to make.  At 9,000gp it isn't that great of a bargain. at 4,500 gp it saves you a lot as long as you put higher level spells into it.  If you take craft wondeorus items and what wizard doesn't, see if your DM will let you make items before the adventure so you can get the reduced cost to make it instead of the market price.  If not I'd buy the scrolls, save 5,000gp and then as soon as the adventure starts say, Hey guys give me 5 days I need to make an item that wil vastly increase my versatility and usefullness to the group ok.

Heck even with an EXP cost that might drop you to 8th level, depending on where you start at 9th making items for 1/2 price before the game starts is well worth it.


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## Mr Fidgit (Oct 7, 2002)

that's a good idea, Shard!

00durrin, do you know how many experience points you'll start out with? if it's 36,000 (_just_ enough to be 9th level), you would have to drop to 8th level, if your DM allows it.

if you have 40,500 exp (mid-way between 9th and 10th level), you've got plenty to use on creating items

(just don't forget to take _Secret Page_ as one of your 3rd level spells, to create a Boccob's Book)


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## dcollins (Oct 7, 2002)

The result of a calculation I did a while back would be that the 9th-level wizard in question needs more than a single spellbook.



> A spellbook has 100 pages (3 lbs.); each spell takes levelx2 pages, 1 page for cantrips (PHB155).
> 
> On average, a single spellbook will be filled when a wizard is about 8th level (with 16 cantrips & 18 spells of level 1-4 [~4 each]).




I included this in my "Thumbnail Rules" document (p. 2), here: www.superdan.net/dnd3.html


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## bret (Oct 7, 2002)

The cost of the actual book is minor (15 gp as I recall).

The real cost is in the scribing.

I don't think it is fair to charge them the cost of used up scrolls out of starting equipment. If you are doing that, better charge other characters for any potions they may have drunk in the past or other single use items they may have used up.

Charging for scribing costs to put it in the book quickly makes it worthwhile to have a Boccom's Blessed Book. Just make sure you buy one of these for extra spells, then ask the GM how many spells you came across which you could scribe.


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## Xeriar (Oct 7, 2002)

Well, my DM never used scribe costs (at least, they aren't so atronomical), but kept scribe time fairly lengthy.  My character had aquired about three enemy spellbooks by then, all with a pretty beefy list of spells.

Of course, there was some crossover.  He's got a few extra level 1 spells, but it's the 2nd and 3rd level spells where his repertoire shines - he's got a hideous amount of level two and three spells available to him (reason: they're cheap, honestly, in terms of scroll price) - I think the majority of his extra level 4 spells he got later, and certainly all but one of his extra level five spells.

Level 1 spells: 4 + int bonus, roll randomly for a few extra (say 4),
Level 2 spells: 4, pick 4 more and roll randomly for 8 more
Level 3 spells: 4, pick 4 more and roll for 4 more
Level 4 spells: 4, roll for 4 more
Level 5 spells: 2


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## Pax (Oct 8, 2002)

As a GM, here is how I handle such questions:

At 1st level, you get 3+INTMOD spells.  At each level after that, you get 2 free spells of a level you can then cast.  So, go through each level, picking the spells at those levels.

Then, if you want more spells in your spellbooks, pay the price of a scroll of that spell; if you so choose, it is scribed in your spellbook for free, INSTEAD of you having the physical scroll still (if you still want a scroll of that spell, buy it again).

While this requires the Wizard to spend gold to obtain the scroll (unlike the idea of "found" spells), it makes the transcription into the wizard's spellbook free (unlike ALL spells beyond the 2-per-level).

I also presuppose every wizard with a permanent home, has (for "free") a backup spellbook.  Any wizard without, who gets a permanent home, spends a bit of time scribing ("free" of gold cost) selfsame backup.  However, by "free", I mean, the transcription into the main book, covers simultaneous transcription into the backup ... no EXTRA gold o time needed.  The raw book itself, however, still has to be paid for (which could get quite pricey, considering I use the _Magic of faerun_ rules for enhanced spellbooks).


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## Destil (Oct 8, 2002)

warpmind said:
			
		

> *There's a T&B Enhancement at WOTC webpage where you can find examples of the spellbooks of wizards of 1st to 20th level. It might be useful for you. *



This is a good starting point, but not really the best way to do things, IMHO. The enhancement is a list for *NPC* spellbooks, not PC spellbooks. Compairing the charts in the DMG, NPCs typicaly have around 1/3rd (1200GP vs 32000 GP at 9th, for instance) of the wealth of a PC. So if you want to use these I'd say at *least* tripple the number of spells.



			
				bret said:
			
		

> *I don't think it is fair to charge them the cost of used up scrolls out of starting equipment. If you are doing that, better charge other characters for any potions they may have drunk in the past or other single use items they may have used up.*



This is a fairly good point, since the PC's wealth charts are for *accumulated* wealth. The real tricky part is if you fail to make your spellcraft roll, you'll still have the scroll, most likely, so you can try again later or cast from it in a tight spot. So either pay 200GP/spell level (scribed spells) or 37.5 (scrolls you failed a spellcraft roll on).

This reduces your scribing costs by about 15%


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## Pax (Oct 8, 2002)

bret said:
			
		

> *The cost of the actual book is minor (15 gp as I recall).
> 
> The real cost is in the scribing.*




And potentially in obtaining the spell tos cribe, in the first place.



> *I don't think it is fair to charge them the cost of used up scrolls out of starting equipment. If you are doing that, better charge other characters for any potions they may have drunk in the past or other single use items they may have used up.*




Well it's cheaper than the alternative -- charge them the full cost to research the spell, with the assumption thay always roll a 20 on their Spellcraft check.  That would be 1000gp times the level of the spell ... !!

Also remember, the price paid for spells in the Wizards' spellbook aren't just for scrolls he's used "once" ... it's for spells he's learned *forever*.  It represents the *retained* wealth of finding scrolls or spellbooks during prior adventuring.



> *Charging for scribing costs to put it in the book quickly makes it worthwhile to have a Boccom's Blessed Book. Just make sure you buy one of these for extra spells, then ask the GM how many spells you came across which you could scribe. *




To which, as a GM, I'd answer "however many youw ant bo buy scrolls of, to scribe for free (_Boccob's_ or not), with automatic Spellcraft success; all scribing is presumed to be completed before the first session's play begins, if you prefer."

I wouldn't let a fighter have a sword, or a quiver full of arrows, without buying them.  Iw on't let a Wizard have something SHE doesn't get directly from level advancement, without also paying for it.  The price of a single scroll of that spell (or the cost to research it, Playeer's choice ... which could be cheaper WRT spells with expensive XP or Component costs ...), is a useful baseline measurement of the relative value of a spell of that level.


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