# Rules for Ballistae?



## Otterscrubber (Sep 16, 2008)

So we have this 5th level group that is part of a larger mercenary company.  We are one squad that runs around doing odd missions.  Our "leader" has decided that we need to roll with some more boom.  He wants to get a wagon and put a ballista in it in the case we need to knock down a big door or mow down a group of goblins to impress the locals.  Anyone know of any 4e rules to cover such equipment?  It's not something we plan on using every adventure, but it'd be nice to have one around in case it's needed.  Better to have one and not need it than need one and not have one


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## GMforPowergamers (Sep 16, 2008)

when I used one as GM I just uped the size of a crossbow.

 l 1d8> H 1d10> G 1d12


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## Alabast (Sep 16, 2008)

Ballistae and other siege weapons should be handled by the DM's whim, not by dice rolls.  Especially if its an NPC that's using it.  One of the facets of 4e designs that I like is that the DM basically dictates what happens when the PCs aren't directly involved, like when a large battle occurs, though the narration could be affected by whether or not the PCs succeed at their task.

A ballistae is useless in a small skirmish after the first shot.  It takes to long to reload to be practical.  If the PCs want to use it to knock down doors, the DM should let them.  Otherwise it's better left as a story device.


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## Gort (Sep 16, 2008)

GMforPowergamers said:


> when I used one as GM I just uped the size of a crossbow.
> 
> l 1d8> H 1d10> G 1d12




It's a siege engine. It hit a guy. It did 1 damage.


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## Nytmare (Sep 16, 2008)

Gort said:


> It's a siege engine. It hit a guy. It did 1 damage.




It's ok, only minions are stupid enough to be hit by them.


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## frankthedm (Sep 16, 2008)

Gort said:


> It's a siege engine. It hit a guy. It did 1 damage.



Hey, if a DM wants to houserule a Balista does enough damage to _one shot_ a warhorse, I'd say that is a fine idea. The problem is if that  kind of damage output written down in the book, then some player will try and abuse it.


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## lukelightning (Sep 16, 2008)

Did all 3-4 people required to man it spend feats on ballista proficiency?


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## Skyscraper (Sep 16, 2008)

I designed an encounter with an animated construct in it that was essentially a rolling ballista. I can't remember the exact numbers, but based on this i would suggest something like :

*Balista *(standard; recharge 5, 6) * weapon
Ranged 30/60; + X vs. AC; 3d6+5 damage and target is knocked prone. The creature manning the balista must use a move action to roll for a recharge.

The bonus attack should be the basic ranged attack bonus of the person using the balista. I would consider whether this is a superior weapon, i.e. does the person get a proficiency bonus for using it? Something to discuss with the DM. The proficiency bonus should be +2 if you allow one.

The "recharge 5,6" is normally reserved for monster abilities, but why not use it for players in this instance? It represents that it takes a while to recharge the thing.  The fact that the creature needs to spend a move action to be able to roll the d6 to see if it recharges means that it must remain there each round, though it still has its standard action so the combat is not lost for this PC.

The damage is probably comparable to many daily spells you have. You can modify the damage ouput if you feel it's inappropriate, and/or you can make it a "recharge 6" if you want it to be available less frequently (in which case it would mostly be an encounter power - who would want to remain in the balista for 5 rounds on average before it recharges?)

Sky


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## UngeheuerLich (Sep 16, 2008)

the easiest way to handle it would be using the improvised damage charts. Roll an int check and compare it to the DCs given... do light, moderate or high damage depending on your success... Armor should not help at all... maybe you could also target reflex... (here int is totally logical as defense, because you can calculate where the shot hits)


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## Silverblade The Ench (Sep 17, 2008)

Skyscraper said:


> *Balista *(standard; recharge 5, 6) * weapon
> Ranged 30/60; + X vs. AC; 3d6+5 damage and target is knocked prone. The creature manning the balista must use a move action to roll for a recharge.
> 
> The bonus attack should be the basic ranged attack bonus of the person using the balista. I would consider whether this is a superior weapon, i.e. does the person get a proficiency bonus for using it? Something to discuss with the DM. The proficiency bonus should be +2 if you allow one.
> ...




I LIKE it! hey that's good! 

ballistae are horribly brutal weapons...being a Spelljammer fan and making my 3D art for it, I read up on them a lot. 
So folk should *fear* them.

I'd say that they shot from point impact goes forth in a line 2d4 squares long, same attack/damage stats, as the bolts go right through Human sized targets *squelch*...but that maybe too much to do?

They should be an exotic weapon, light ballistae are very accurate and have long range (can hit a single man at 200 yards), but they are hard to use due to the size etc, so takes lot of training to be good with them.

Animation I did about light ballista some years ago:
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/movies/ballista_light.avi
may use the DIVx codiec, iirc.


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## Gavinfoxx (Sep 17, 2008)

Also, Polybolos should maybe be able to fire every round or every other round? The really awesome repeating ballistae?  How about the simpler chinese style repeating ballistae?


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## Silverblade The Ench (Sep 17, 2008)

The repeating Roman design had 2 flaws:
-wasn't as powerful
-Too accurate, which is actually bad as it was wanted as an Area of Effect machine-gun style effect. No use hitting same target 3 or 4 times.

Saw a working recreation of them in a documentary, pretty amazing 

however, since it's D&D, and magic and maybe cultures who's tech advances in their own bailiwicks are far ahead of ours...who knows, maybe they solved the problem?

(always note, other universes/peoples may have tech BETTER than ours, even if in more simpler areas, like weapons/armour: 10,000 years of trial and error, plus magic, plus different mental abilities/outlooks could have huge difference)


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## Mad Hamish (Sep 17, 2008)

Most importantly can you sneak attack with it?


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## Silverblade The Ench (Sep 17, 2008)

Mad Hamish,
_"I backstab him with.....a BALLISTA!" _

lol classic, ain't it?


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## lukelightning (Sep 17, 2008)

Mad Hamish said:


> Most importantly can you sneak attack with it?




It's a hand crossbow... for a titan.


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## UngeheuerLich (Sep 17, 2008)

Silverblade The Ench said:


> The repeating Roman design had 2 flaws:
> -wasn't as powerful
> -Too accurate, which is actually bad as it was wanted as an Area of Effect machine-gun style effect. No use hitting same target 3 or 4 times.
> 
> ...




I saw a light roman torsion balista live... shooting on a steelplate 25m away... With the bolt flying right through it...

it HAS an area of effect (fear)
Imagine your neighbour, wearing the same 35kg plate armour and shield like you do, struck dead by a single shot... what would you do?


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## Otterscrubber (Sep 17, 2008)

Thanks for all the great feedback.  I like the concept of letting the DM decide what effect it will have in a given situation.  Our group was mostly going to have it in the background for style effect anyways, so perhaps stating it out will only encourage us to abuse it every time we sit down to play. 

Mostly our leader thought it would give our mercenary squad some props with the yocals if they saw us rolling with some siege equipment.  We'll have to see if his marketing ideas backfire on us in any way


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## lukelightning (Sep 17, 2008)

I might consider counting the ballista in your "xp budget" if you went around adventuring with one and used it in an encounter; either adding in extra monsters or taking away a small amount of XP used.

I'm not 100% sure I'd do this, but if it seems that the ballista might be too powerful this would be a way to balance it out.


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## UngeheuerLich (Sep 17, 2008)

lukelightning said:


> I might consider counting the ballista in your "xp budget" if you went around adventuring with one and used it in an encounter; either adding in extra monsters or taking away a small amount of XP used.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure I'd do this, but if it seems that the ballista might be too powerful this would be a way to balance it out.




It could be considered a "trap" or "hazard" on the players side... for what it is worth...
a fear/knockdown effect seems comparable to some traps...


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## Curt Roulston (Feb 2, 2018)

*I found this.*

https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Advanced_Heavy_Ballista_(3.5e_Equipment)

Sorry if that doesn't come up as a hyper link. It's 3.5 edition but it says that the damage of a small ballista is 4d8 and a medium ballista is 6d8.

 Reloading an advanced heavy ballista requires two full-round actions. Most keep a crew of three on hand, one to fire and two to reload so as to fire once every round. Having more than 3 crew lessens the time spend between them. For example a crew of five would spend a standard action (to fire) and can use one move action from each remaining crew to load the bolt. 

Sorry to the DM s out there. I am planning a d&d based comic and want a troll to fire a ballista as its main weapon. Being two sizes larger than the ballista means it can be reloaded as a full round action by one large sized creature. Just been doing the research and found this thread.


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