# Reality TV: Good or Bad?



## Knightfall (Dec 17, 2008)

Okay, reality TV seems to be here to stay. (Then again...) So, the question is: Is reality TV good or bad?

Do you love reality TV shows or hate them with a passion? Are there any reality TV shows that are good that makes it worth putting up with the bad.

What's your opinion? (Keep it Eric's Grandma friendly.)


----------



## Knightfall (Dec 17, 2008)

Whoops, I meant to make this thread a poll thread. Oh well...


----------



## Mouseferatu (Dec 17, 2008)

Knightfall1972 said:


> Okay, reality TV seems to be here to stay. (Then again...) So, the question is: Is reality TV good or bad?
> 
> Do you love reality TV shows or hate them with a passion? Are there any reality TV shows that are good that makes it worth putting up with the bad.
> 
> What's your opinion? (Keep it Eric's Grandma friendly.)




I think that people who watch reality TV should lose their TV privileges--for ever hour they watch, they can't watch any TV for a year. And people who _make_ reality TV should be forcefully drafted into military service.

Does that answer your question?


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 17, 2008)

Bad.

On the other hand, while I hate shows like Fear Factor and wouldn't watch them, the Darwin in me likes that they exist.  People voluntarily suffering to great lengths just to fuel their greed to win about a year's salary in prize money...before taxes, because they're too stupid to recognize their sense of shame?  Go ahead!


----------



## Kaodi (Dec 17, 2008)

. o O ( What would Gandhi say?  )

Reality television? Sounds like a good idea!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 17, 2008)

As an Entertainment Attorney with an MBA in Sports & Entertainment Marketing, I have to say..."Yes."

Reality TV, when its good, can be VERY good- A&E's _Intervention_, for instance (no, I don't watch it, but I recognize its quality).  "True Crime" shows are generally at least as absorbing as an average police drama.

But when its bad, it is consistently the worst thing on the airwaves.  _Cheaters_, anyone?


----------



## Fallen Seraph (Dec 17, 2008)

_Amazing Race_ is the only "reality tv" show I watch.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 17, 2008)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> Bad.
> 
> On the other hand, while I hate shows like Fear Factor and wouldn't watch them, the Darwin in me likes that they exist.  People voluntarily suffering to great lengths just to fuel their greed to win about a year's salary in prize money...before taxes, because they're too stupid to recognize their sense of shame?  Go ahead!




A Japanese TV exec once said:

"In America, your game shows reward intelligence.  In Japan, our game shows punish stupidity."

Most American game shows have traditionally followed that idea.  Players won by wit and guile- even if the game didn't require much brainpower, it was still the primary tool for success.  Even _Name That Tune_ and _Wheel of Fortune_ require a bit of insight.

_Fear Factor _and its ilk are obviously more in the Japanese tradition.

OTOH, you're now starting to see hybridized shows.  There is a show in Japan that makes you go through all kinds of "Ninja" challenges, but also requires that you solve puzzles at certain stations.  Sort of _American Gladiators_ meets _Are you smarter than a 5th grader_.

Great Britain (or was it Australia?) had a hybridized game show in which you used your wits to win, but if you lost, your car got crushed.


----------



## Krug (Dec 17, 2008)

Well, it depends. There's a mix of good and bad. I do watch Project Runaway occasionally and it's quite entertaining. Stuff like Fear Factor and America's Next Top Model, though, are quite a turn-off, literally. There's definitely more misses than hits than regular tv, that's for sure.


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 17, 2008)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Great Britain (or was it Australia?) had a hybridized game show in which you used your wits to win, but if you lost, your car got crushed.




If you're talking about Distraction, it was ported over to America on Comedy Central for a season or two and hosted by Jimmy Carr, and is one of my all-time favorite game shows.  I miss it dearly today.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 17, 2008)

For me it's a waste of good time slots.  

Big Brother was the first "reality TV" I became aware of - and promptly ignored. And I never looked back.

A part of me wonders if they might be interesting for studies of behavioral science, but I am afraid the "reality TV" situations are too fabricated too be of any use in general situations. You only study a human in a container (or an isle, or whatever-else-you-fabricate), not the human in his natural environment.

Ultimately, the only reason they exist is because you can get viewers for very cheap money. You don't need to pay real actors (and you can exchange your actors ever season, so one trying to raise his price), you don't need as many writers, you don't need the SFX or production quality. And you still get enough money to get payed for your advertisement. It is a niche to fill a 24h/7d TV schedule. You can't create blockbusters for every hour of your program - heck, for most of the day, your audience is at work or sleeping, unable to watch. That can never pay off.

But personally, I'd definitely prefer reruns of old shows and documentations over reality shows. At least then, on the occasions I have time to zap around aimlessly, I might catch something interesting... (And no, I don't care for game shows or (fake) court shows or either.)


----------



## Umbran (Dec 17, 2008)

I think that depends a bit on what you call "reality TV".  Shows like "Top Chef" for example, follow some of the "reality" pattern, but it is still more in line with a game show.


----------



## Grymar (Dec 17, 2008)

For the most part, I really dislike them.  I'll admit that the voyeur in me enjoys Big Brother, but I'm fairly ashamed of it.

The only "quality" reality show I've ever seen in The Amazing Race, although I rarely watch it.


----------



## GrayLinnorm (Dec 17, 2008)

Definitely bad! The Real World wasn't just the worst thing to happen to MTV, it was the worst thing to happen to television, period!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 17, 2008)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> If you're talking about Distraction, it was ported over to America on Comedy Central for a season or two and hosted by Jimmy Carr, and is one of my all-time favorite game shows.  I miss it dearly today.




Nope, I remember Distraction- that one featured things like electroshock and high winds, but they left your car alone.

The show I'm talking about, it was simply answer your questions correctly or walk home...your car was crushed in front of you on stage.


----------



## hafrogman (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm going to have to go with bad.

There are shows that manage to be watchable DESPITE being reality TV (Top Chef, etc), but they'd be better as actual competitions rather than this reality TV format where the tasks are secondary to the backstabbing social interaction between the competitors.

I'd also distinguish between "Reality TV" which I feel describes a certain style of TV show.  Probably starting with The Real World.

Something like Cops or other crime shows I'd almost classify more as a documentary style.


----------



## Knightfall (Dec 17, 2008)

Umbran said:


> I think that depends a bit on what you call "reality TV".  Shows like "Top Chef" for example, follow some of the "reality" pattern, but it is still more in line with a game show.



Top Chef is one of the few "reality shows" that I can stand watching my sister. She loves to watch Top Model too, which drives me crazy.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 17, 2008)

For me, its _Iron Chef_... and I like both versions, but for different reasons.


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 17, 2008)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Nope, I remember Distraction- that one featured things like electroshock and high winds, but they left your car alone.
> 
> The show I'm talking about, it was simply answer your questions correctly or walk home...your car was crushed in front of you on stage.




Well, at least in the American version, prizes alternated between a set of five (including a "dud" prize like beans) that you had to randomly blow up for each wrong answer, and a car.  The car games altered between letting the losing contestants destroy your car or some big guy hired by the show, but in general, the more questions you got wrong, the longer your car would get wrecked.  You could take it home regardless of how damaged it was, though some ended up pretty un-drivable.


----------



## drothgery (Dec 17, 2008)

Since reality shows I don't watch seem unlikely to be replaced by shows I do watch, I don't have a strong opinion on them. If other people like them, that's fine.


----------



## Umbran (Dec 17, 2008)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> For me, its _Iron Chef_... and I like both versions, but for different reasons.




I'm not sure Iron Chef qualifies.  It's a straight out contest show, completely episodic.  It's... culinary speed chess, not "reality".

Mind you, I like culinary speed chess


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 17, 2008)

Well, "Reality TV" is a new term that now covers a LOT of genres- technically, _sports_ is "reality tv."

But most of what is called reality tv _ARE_ episodic competitions:

1) _Fear Factor_ and _Estate of Panic_ are competitions of endurance.

2) _Rock of Love_, _The Bachelor_, _Next_ and their ilk are all competitions to win a date, spouse or some other kind of significant other.

3) _Next Top Model_, _The Apprentice_ and the like are all competitions to win jobs.

4) _Great Race_, _Survivor_, _Big Brother_?  All competitions for money.

_Iron Chef_ certainly qualifies...though all you get is accolades of your fans and peers.


----------



## Knightfall (Dec 17, 2008)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> For me, its _Iron Chef_... and I like both versions, but for different reasons.



I tried watching Iron Chef but I couldn't stand it. It really bugs me for some reason. I only liked it when Futurama spoofed it.


----------



## Ahnehnois (Dec 18, 2008)

Reality TV has had some positive impacts. It's forced scripted TV shows to innovate or die, and as most networks are running 'reality' shows, more high quality stuff is on cable now-there are tons of great scripted shows with great concepts and people and budgets on various cable networks. If we're lucky, reality TV may even kill off the 'sitcom'. The movement in TV in movies towards realism, even in science fiction (e.g. Battlestar Galactica or The Dark Knight) probably has something to do with the rise of reality TV.

Of course, most reality TV is worthless beyond all that.


----------



## Jasperak (Dec 18, 2008)

I think reality shows are like over-produced "live" albums in the music industry. They seem staged for maximum commercial effect.


----------



## horacethegrey (Dec 18, 2008)

Personally I really don't think in terms of  whether it's "good or bad" when it comes to reality TV. Like all things, it can have it's share of *good and bad*.

The good examples of for me are those shows where professionals within a certain field get to strut their stuff for the audiences at home. _Top Chef, The Apprentice_, _Dancing with the Stars_, _American Idol_ and even _Project Runaway_ fall into this category. Since in reality I'm neither a chef, a business exec nor a fashion designer, such shows hold my attention since they feature a craft and field I'm not familiar with.

The bad stuff I liken to those voyeuristic enterprises where we get to watch "average" joes makes fools of themselves 24/7. I've never liked _Big Brother_, _Survivor _holds no appeal for me. And don't get me started on those horrid _Bachelor _shows! Ugh. 

Reality TV is here to stay I think. But let's have more of the good stuff rather than the bad.


----------



## Umbran (Dec 18, 2008)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> W
> But most of what is called reality tv _ARE_ episodic competitions:




I don't watch any of those, but I know a couple by reputation - and I'd say they aren't episodic.  If the order in which you watch the episodes does not matter, then the show is episodic.  ST:TOS was strongly episodic, while Babylon 5 was not very episodic.  Top Model and Suvivor, for example, are shows where the point is watching _development over the season_ - what has gone before matters to the viewer.

That isn't true for Iron Chef, in which each episode stands completely on its own.  History is irrelevant.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 18, 2008)

> That isn't true for Iron Chef, in which each episode stands completely on its own. History is irrelevant.




You're correct to a certain point.  They do keep track of the Iron Chefs' wins and losses, as well as streaks.

And there are also grudge rematches.  Bobby Flay's appearances are notable, in that regard.

But you're absolutely correct that it is MUCH less episodic than a typical reality competition show, and is more akin to sporting events in that aspect.


----------



## Wombat (Dec 18, 2008)

I must admit that I don't get it.

"Reality TV" is so oddly scripted (ask anyone involved to find out just _how _scripted it really is) -- the keeping of a "bad guy" for a long time in each show, who never becomes the winner as an obvious example.

For the most part, though, I am not much of a tv fan, and reality tv strikes me as a low even for the medium.  I have seen a number of them, thanks to my sister and a couple of friends -- America's Next Top Model, Project Runway, Last Restaurant Standing, etc.  

My verdict?  No, thank you.


----------



## Oni (Dec 18, 2008)

I figure reality TV is pretty much like all the rest of the stuff on the boob tube.  

Usually crappy, occasionally great.


----------



## Arnwyn (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm going to say "Bad" and "No thank you"...

... but I will cop to watching one reality TV show: _Amazing Race_.


----------



## el-remmen (Dec 20, 2008)

I watch _Survivor _and _the Amazing Race_, but they are more like game shows than things like _The Osbournes_ or _Keeping Up With the Kardasi-ughs!_.

I guess _Survivor _has some "reality" aspect to it with the dramas that go on - but ultimately it turns social situations punctuated with physical and mental challenges into a game.


----------



## Alzrius (Dec 20, 2008)

Bad. When I want to watch "reality" I'll go outside and do it myself.


----------



## Felon (Dec 20, 2008)

I've recently acquired a guilty pleasure in the form of _Kitchen Nightmares_. On the one hand, it's entertaining and informative to see what causes a restaurant to fail; it's a volatile business that can make you wealthy or poor very quickly. On the other hand, the show is pretty obviously staged, hyperdramatized. an heavily edited.

I have to wonder what is going through the restaurant owner's heads when they invite Ramsey to come film his show there. By now, it's obvious that he's going to deem all of the food to be bland, tasteless crap, and worse still, he's going to show the kitchen to be a disgusting pigsty. That's the stuff that's going to stick in a potential customer's mind, not the wonderful one-night reinvention that Ramsey stages with actors hired from a Craigslist ad.


----------



## Orius (Dec 21, 2008)

Mouseferatu said:


> I think that people who watch reality TV should lose their TV privileges--for ever hour they watch, they can't watch any TV for a year. And people who _make_ reality TV should be forcefully drafted into military service.




Dammit Ari, I wanted to give reality TV the slagging it deserves, but you pretty much stole any thunder I could muster with these two magnificent sentences.  



Dannyalcatraz said:


> But when its bad, it is consistently the worst thing on the airwaves.




Yes well, reality TV turns Sturgeon's Law on its head by being nothing BUT crap for the most part.



Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> For me it's a waste of good time slots.




I agree, but I see no reason to be so nice about it.  



Dannyalcatraz said:


> Well, "Reality TV" is a new term that now covers a LOT of genres- technically, _sports_ is "reality tv."




This does not convince me to like reality TV because I hate both equally.

I can't stand the exclusionary crap in many of the shows, there's too much of that IRL to make it good entertainment.  Putting humanity's worst excesses of small-minded mean-spiritedness on public display as the genre does does not further the advance of human culture.

Then you've got hosts on some of these shows who make a living doing nothing but cutting people down as far as they can go.  That makes me absolutely detest _American Idol_.  Not only does it pander to the foolish desire in our culture to seek fame, but it also has that detestable snarky pissant git Simon Cowell, who is reason enough not to watch the show.  That Ramsey is just as bad sometimes.  I'd love to eat his cooking sometime so I could tell HIM how much it all tastes like crap (even if it's good).  I give _The Apprentice_ a pass here only because Donald Trump is known to be utterly unlikeable, and he knows it.  He's not necessarily doing it to entertain us (and likely doesn't give a  what we think of him anyway).


----------



## Aus_Snow (Dec 21, 2008)

'Reality' TV? Sure, I've heard of it.

It doesn't surprise me that it exists, or that it has gained such a following. So _many_ people who are so _very_ bored in this, the first world.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 22, 2008)

> Not only does it pander to the foolish desire in our culture to seek fame, but it also has that detestable snarky pissant git Simon Cowell, who is reason enough not to watch the show.




Now, I have no love for _American Idol._  However, Simon Cowell, like a top predator, performs a vital service.  There are people who appear on that show who have ZERO business being in the singing biz (at least, not in pop music)...and they need to be told this hard, cold fact.

And the only difference between what he does on _AI_ and what happens behind closed doors every day at Sony or any other label is that at Sony it happens behind closed doors.  Simon does it on national TV.


> That Ramsey is just as bad sometimes. I'd love to eat his cooking sometime so I could tell HIM how much it all tastes like crap (even if it's good).




As I recall, Ramsay has been awarded more Michelin stars than any other chef in history, and currently has more top-rated restaurants than any other chef in the biz.  He also generally has _profitable_ restaurants in a business in which failure within a year is the norm.

IOW, if he's telling someone that something about the way they're running their eatery is wrong, chances are good that he's right.

Not that he's perfect- on the original BBC version of the series, he talked about the failure of one of his own places that nearly bankrupted him.  But he's right much more often than he is wrong.

As for his attitude & mouth?  Perhaps, like performers in other walks of life, he's playing up to the stereotype of his profession- foul-tempered and egotistical chefs are the stuff of legend.


----------



## Mistwell (Dec 25, 2008)

Well, my wife was on a reality TV show (Who Wants to be a Superhero, S2), so I am biased on the topic.

I like some reality TV.  I am not a fan of the MTV shows, or dating shows, or any show where the point seems to be to make fun of people and show the dark, greedy side of humanity.

But some of them are interesting sociological experiments, and some are interesting physical and mental challenges where you see what the human spirit is capable of when pushed hard.  I tend to like some of American Idol and Amazing Race for example.  I even like some of the documentary-style reality shows like Ghost Hunters and Deadliest Catch.

So like any genre, there are good shows and bad shows.

And as for the person bashing sitcoms, some of the best TV right now can be found in sitcoms like Big Bang Theory and How I Met Your Mother.  There is some good in that genre as well.


----------

