# Shaman's Spirit Companion Questions



## Kinneus (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm making a Shaman, and I'm just trying to make sure I understand the rules right. Two big questions I need clarified:

1) The spirit doesn't count for flanking, does it? I assume not, seeing as how that would make the Stalker's Strike power rather redundant. This is due to it being a Conjuration, correct?

2) The 'Call Spirit Companion' feature specifically says:


> The spirit can be targeted by melee or ranged attacks... If a single melee or ranged attack deals damage to the spirit equal to 10 + one-half your level or higher, the spirit disappears... Otherwise, the spirit is unaffected by the attack.



I find it odd that they specify 'melee or ranged' attacks each time. It's as if they're purposefully trying to exclude burst and blast attacks. Does this mean that the spirit companion is effectively immune to burst and blast attacks? I certainly hope so... otherwise these guys would be pretty much helpless against most creatures with burst or blast attacks. It's not like the spirit has defenses, after all.
Also, what about opportunity attacks? I'm assuming they provoke them like normal, unless some one can point to something that says otherwise.


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## RickVigorous (Mar 18, 2009)

The spirit is indeed immune to close and area attacks, but it does have defenses; they're the same as the shaman's defenses. 

Also, it doesn't flank.


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## dravot (Mar 18, 2009)

Kinneus said:


> I'm making a Shaman, and I'm just trying to make sure I understand the rules right. Two big questions I need clarified:
> 
> 1) The spirit doesn't count for flanking, does it? I assume not, seeing as how that would make the Stalker's Strike power rather redundant. This is due to it being a Conjuration, correct?




The spirit does not flank.  Note that there are powers that can allow the spirit to flank for a round, but that's the exception to the rule.



Kinneus said:


> 2) The 'Call Spirit Companion' feature specifically says:
> 
> I find it odd that they specify 'melee or ranged' attacks each time. It's as if they're purposefully trying to exclude burst and blast attacks. Does this mean that the spirit companion is effectively immune to burst and blast attacks? I certainly hope so... otherwise these guys would be pretty much helpless against most creatures with burst or blast attacks. It's not like the spirit has defenses, after all.
> Also, what about opportunity attacks? I'm assuming they provoke them like normal, unless some one can point to something that says otherwise.




The spirit is immune to burst and blast attacks.  I think that's because you don't want the shaman to be in the same burst as the spirit - the character would be hit twice.


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## Gunpowder (Mar 18, 2009)

daier1r said:


> The Importance of English




the hell is this? I assume a spam bot.
So how do you report posts?


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## Piratecat (Mar 18, 2009)

Little triangular ! button under your avatar - but I've got it.


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## Jools (Mar 18, 2009)

I read on the WOTC board that customer services said blast/burst attacks do affect spirit companions. Also, that they don't illicit opportunity attacks.


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## Gunpowder (Mar 18, 2009)

Piratecat said:


> Little triangular ! button under your avatar - but I've got it.




ah, thanks


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## ForbidenMaster (Mar 18, 2009)

Jools said:


> I read on the WOTC board that customer services said blast/burst attacks do affect spirit companions. Also, that they don't illicit opportunity attacks.



Do you have a link?


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## Mengu (Mar 18, 2009)

Here is what I asked and what they answered:



			
				Mengu said:
			
		

> When the spirit companion moves, does it provoke opportunity attacks?
> 
> Can the spirit be targeted by area or close attacks?
> 
> ...






			
				Wizards Customer Support said:
			
		

> Mengu,
> 
> The Spirit Companion is a conjuration and does not provoke opportunity attacks, however, it is affected by area of effect attacks.
> 
> ...


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## Doctor Proctor (Mar 18, 2009)

Kinneus said:


> I find it odd that they specify 'melee or ranged' attacks each time. It's as if they're purposefully trying to exclude burst and blast attacks. Does this mean that the spirit companion is effectively immune to burst and blast attacks? I certainly hope so... otherwise these guys would be pretty much helpless against most creatures with burst or blast attacks. It's not like the spirit has defenses, after all.
> Also, what about opportunity attacks? I'm assuming they provoke them like normal, unless some one can point to something that says otherwise.




Hmmm, that is odd.  It doesn't make them immune, since something like Scorching Burst is a *Range 10* Burst 1 attack...so it still falls under being a "ranged" attack.  What it does cause problems with is *Close* attacks.  Those are neither ranged, nor melee, and not mentioned.

Since CS apparently came back and said that they _can_ be targeted by Bursts and Blasts, I would go with that for now.  However, it might be a good idea to post something about this on the errata boards to get a clear update about it into the books.  Personally though, I don't see why there's any reason why they _should_ be immune, so I think that the CS answer is probably the right call.  Not to mention the fact that Bursts and Blasts tend to do less damage to make up for their ability to hit multiple targets, and are therefore less likely to actually pop your spirit.  A single target power is the most likely thing that's going to kill it.


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## keterys (Mar 18, 2009)

Scorching Burst is an Area burst 1 within 10 squares, not a 'Range' attack at all.

I believe that spirit companions are immune to the _damage_ from area and close attacks (in that you can't kill them that way), but are still vulnerable to effects.

For example, Phantom Chasm could still immobilize it.

Maybe that's what is meant. Interesting that it's immune to opportunity attacks - though with the amount of resistance to damage it has, it was already immune to most opportunity attacks


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## KlassyReborn (Mar 19, 2009)

Ok, so here's my quick question about spirit companions, a 2nd level utility power says that you can move you spirit companion*S*. Does this mean you can conjure any number of spirits? I couldn't locate if/where in PHB2 they had a limit. If you can have an infinite number, i say that shamans can easily be broken, especially with a few feats


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## keterys (Mar 19, 2009)

WotC already chimed in somewhere to say you only got one. Don't remember where.


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## Doctor Proctor (Mar 19, 2009)

KlassyReborn said:


> Ok, so here's my quick question about spirit companions, a 2nd level utility power says that you can move you spirit companion*S*. Does this mean you can conjure any number of spirits? I couldn't locate if/where in PHB2 they had a limit. If you can have an infinite number, i say that shamans can easily be broken, especially with a few feats




I assume you mean Spirit Call.



> PHB II p123
> Target: Each of your Shaman *conjurations and zones *in burst




It doesn't say Spirit Companion*s*, it's talking about conjurations and zones, which are different.  Ancient Warlord's Inspiration (Level 9 Daily, p125) is a conjuration in case you need an example.  Since you could conceivably have multiple conjurations or zones active at once, Spirit Call allows you to move them, plain and simple.  It's not indicating that you have multiple Spirit Companions.


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## Tonester (Mar 20, 2009)

From my understanding of the rules, Conjurations can only be damaged by attacks that specifically target it.  Blast and Burst attacks would work, but only if it can somehow target a creature and not an area.  For example, some powers target a creature, but do damage in a burst 1 around it.  If the conjuration is the target of the power, it would take the damage.  If it is in the burst 1 around some target, it would not take the damage.

My question is about movement.

How does movement and a conjuration work?


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## yenya (Mar 20, 2009)

I think it's always specified in the power. Cleric's movable conjurations move at cost of his move action, meaning he stays put (unfortunately). When shaman spends a move action, both he and the spirit can move, the spirit has shaman's speed. 
Is that what you were asking?


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## DracoSuave (Mar 20, 2009)

> My question is about movement.
> 
> How does movement and a conjuration work?




1)  It can be affected by anything that explicitly targets conjurations.  So the shaman power that moves zones and conjurations CAN move the spirit companion, because it IS a conjuration.  Dispel Magic can destroy a spirit companion instantly (no damage is done to you this way), and Devour Magic can eat it.

2)  Conjurations also cannot normally be targetted by attacks.  Melee and ranged attacks are the exception to that rule (explicitly laid out).  Close and area attacks are NOT melee and NOT ranged attacks.  So no, you -cannot- target or otherwise affect a spirit companion with them (except if they -explicitly- can target conjurations, see 1)

3)  Conjurations do not move by default.  Spirit Companions, however, have a caveat that -permits- them to move at the same time you use a move action.  Bear in mind that you cannot move the spirit companion out of range (20 squares from you) and if you move 20 squares away from the companion, or if line of effect is broken between you and the companion, then your companion ceases to exist immediately.

As an aside:



Tonester said:


> Blast and Burst attacks would work, but only if it can somehow target a creature and not an area.




Blasts and Bursts often target -explicitly- creatures in their area.  Sometimes it's one creature only (Healing Word), sometimes it's all creatures (Scorching Burst), and sometimes it differentiates between allies and enemies.  But, if the Target line mentions creatures, allies, or enemies, it -explicitly- targets those.  It's the rule, not the exception.



Also, regarding the OP:

Conjurations cannot flank by default, so neither do Spirit Companions (without the obvious exception of course)
Conjurations cannot trigger OAs.  Only creatures can, by default.  

Most of these questions can be answered by reading the section on Conjurations in PHB2, at the back of the book.


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## Kinneus (Mar 22, 2009)

I think I have it mostly figured out now. But three things:

1) If somebody could point me to a source to the whole "Immune to Opportunity Attacks" thing, that'd be great.

2) Does the Spirit Companion provide cover for allies behind it?

3) In the Call Spirit Companion power, it says you can dismiss it as a minor action. Calling it is itself a minor action. Does this mean you could dismiss it and re-summon it in another location? Essentially 'teleporting' your spirit around in a Close burst 20? That seems fairly powerful, but I can't think of any reason why you couldn't.


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## Dragonblade (Mar 24, 2009)

Kinneus said:


> I think I have it mostly figured out now. But three things:
> 
> 1) If somebody could point me to a source to the whole "Immune to Opportunity Attacks" thing, that'd be great.
> 
> ...




Regarding number 3, this is one the coolest things about the sprit companion. You summon as a Minor, make your attack as a Standard and then dismiss as a Minor. Effectively making your companion immune to counter-attack.

The drawback of such a tactic is that the bonuses and/or penalties that the companions give to adjacent allies and enemies would not come into play. So its a tradeoff.


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## DracoSuave (Mar 24, 2009)

Kinneus said:


> I think I have it mostly figured out now. But three things:
> 
> 1) If somebody could point me to a source to the whole "Immune to Opportunity Attacks" thing, that'd be great.




Conjurations are not creatures, they are effects with the Conjuration keyword.  You can't OA a Flaming Sphere, nor a Mage Hand.  The -exact- same logic applies here.  Only creatures can trigger OAs.  

Powers with the Summoning keyword DO bring forth creatures, and that's where the confusion lies.  Spirit Companions do NOT have the Summoning keyword.  Really.  Read the power.



> 2) Does the Spirit Companion provide cover for allies behind it?




Conjurations do not interrupt line of sight or line of effect by default.  Nothing in the Spirit Companion description overrides this.



> 3) In the Call Spirit Companion power, it says you can dismiss it as a minor action. Calling it is itself a minor action. Does this mean you could dismiss it and re-summon it in another location? Essentially 'teleporting' your spirit around in a Close burst 20? That seems fairly powerful, but I can't think of any reason why you couldn't.




Absolutely you can.  This might be a very agreeable alternative to simply moving it if you're surrounded by enemies on two fronts and you want to get that Turducken in position -now-.


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## Caliber (Mar 24, 2009)

DracoSuave said:


> Conjurations are not creatures, they are effects with the Conjuration keyword.  You can't OA a Flaming Sphere, nor a Mage Hand.  The -exact- same logic applies here.  Only creatures can trigger OAs.
> 
> Powers with the Summoning keyword DO bring forth creatures, and that's where the confusion lies.  Spirit Companions do NOT have the Summoning keyword.  Really.  Read the power.




I don't have my books with me, so can you confirm this? Are OAs really restricted to creatures? Or do Flaming Spheres/Mage Hands not draw OAs not because they are conjurations, but because they simply can't be targeted by attacks in the first place (again, because they're conjurations)? 

Unless OAs spell out a "must be a creature" stipulation, I would think spirit companions, being targetable, would be vulnerable to OAs. However, as I'm thinking of rolling a Shaman very soon (come on CB, update!) I can't say I'm not open to being convinced otherwise!


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## DracoSuave (Mar 24, 2009)

OAs are triggered by enemies.  While the basic attack could target a Spirit Companion, the spirit companion never triggers the OA to begin with... it's never an enemy, because it is not a creature, and only creatures can be enemies.  As well, an OA is not a power, and therefore has no attack type, and is therefore, not a melee or ranged power.


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## Doctor Proctor (Mar 24, 2009)

DracoSuave said:


> OAs are triggered by enemies.  While the basic attack could target a Spirit Companion, the spirit companion never triggers the OA to begin with... it's never an enemy, because it is not a creature, and only creatures can be enemies.  As well, an OA is not a power, and therefore has no attack type, and is therefore, not a melee or ranged power.




The first part I can agree with, but not the second part.  An Opportunity Attack allows you to make a Melee Basic Attack which _is_ a power and _has_ the melee keyword.  To say otherwise is like saying that a Standard Action isn't a power and doesn't have a melee or ranged keyword, and therefore an attack made with a Standard Action doesn't affect the Spirit.  The word "Opportunity Attack" or "Opportunity Action" is just a description of the action type, not the attack itself.


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## Akaiku (Mar 24, 2009)

If you the character are flanking an enemy, spirit attacks get combat advantage, correct? Also, the shifter ability to do +2 damage when you are bloodied, plus various other abilities that explicitly give you the character increased accuracy or damage work through your spirit as well? Also, your spirit attacking a foe that you do not have even line of sight to reveals you from hiding from said foe, correct?


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## AbdulAlhazred (Mar 25, 2009)

Akaiku said:


> If you the character are flanking an enemy, spirit attacks get combat advantage, correct? Also, the shifter ability to do +2 damage when you are bloodied, plus various other abilities that explicitly give you the character increased accuracy or damage work through your spirit as well? Also, your spirit attacking a foe that you do not have even line of sight to reveals you from hiding from said foe, correct?




All decent questions. In order to be considered flanking you must meet the requirements on PHB1 285. The key one is "Opposite Sides". To be considered flanking and get CA the ATTACKER must have an ally on the opposite side of the defender. Just because the shaman and some other character meet that requirement does not make it met for the spirit companion (or anyone else). Since spirit companions CANNOT flank, they cannot ever benefit from CA due to flanking, unless the spirit happens to be under the effect of a power which grants it flanking capability.

The spirit companion has the same defenses as your character, but it has only whatever attack capabilities you're powers give it. The attack power's description will thus answer this question and there is no general answer.

I think the question of becoming not hidden is an ambiguous case. It hinges on the question of whether or not you or the companion would be considered the originator of the attack. This is a raging debate WRT all types of conjurations, as well as sustained zones. One could also ask the same question about provoking OAs. If the shaman casts a ranged attack originating at the spirit, does he take OAs? Nobody really knows (well, I don't). FWIW I would rule you remain hidden.


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## DracoSuave (Mar 25, 2009)

The point of origin for ranged powers is the shaman, even if its 'from the spirit.'  You only determine line of effect from the spirit, everything else is determined from the shaman.  (Read Conjurations, PHBII)


A lot of these questions are answered in the section on Conjurations.  Seriously.

99% of the confusion comes from thinking that conjurations are creatures.  They are not.  They are spell effects.  Nothing in the Call Spirit Companion says it's a creature.  Nothing in the conjuration keyword says it's a creature.

Ergo, it is not a creature.  It is not an ally.  It is not an enemy.  It is an -effect-.  It -can- be targeted by certain attacks, but that doesn't mean that it -triggers- abilities.  Interactions that are not strictly damage are -not- allowed it without specific exceptions.

Think of it this way.  All the attacks the spirit 'does' are '*Ranged* spirit 1'.  That would mean that every 'melee' attack the spirit 'does', being defined as ranged attacks, would trigger immediate OAs from every enemy adjacent to it when it attacks.  

However, this is not the case.  The spirit does not actually make these attacks.  It is merely the center point for range calculation.  Concealment doesn't matter to the spirit, only to -you-, the source of the power.  -You- are the only actual creature here.  The spirit is merely a conjuration that happens to interact with certain powers you use.  It should not be confused with a beast companion which IS a creature.


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## Kinneus (Mar 25, 2009)

Trust me, the new Conjuration rules was the first place I turned, but I still found them wanting. This thread, for instance, claims that the Spirit Companion is subject to opportunity attacks: [Shaman] Spirit Companion Problems Master List - Wizards Community

So it's not really as cut and dry as "read the new Conjuration rules, all will be answered". There's nothing mentioned there about opportunity attacks one way or the other.


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## AbdulAlhazred (Mar 25, 2009)

Yep, it is by NO means settled that a conjuration cannot be an 'enemy'. It is by no means settled WHY a conjuration cannot be OAed. There are 2 possible reasons, the 'it is not subject to attack' argument, and the 'it is not a creature and thus not an enemy' argument. For the vast bulk of conjurations it is a non-issue since 'not subject to attack' certainly precludes OA. It happens that for spirit companions this is not so, and thus it DOES become a pertinent consideration. 

If the reason a conjuration cannot suffer OA is simply because it is invulnerable to attack, then spirit companions CAN suffer an OA. We also know that spirit companions are certainly not creatures, but the second argument contains the hidden assumption that not creature = not enemy. This is not an established fact either. It is especially not well established in the case of spirit companions, which certainly act in many respects like allies/enemies. 

Thus I (and apparently even WotC) have not been able to come to a certain conclusion on whether or not a spirit companion can trigger an OA.

Even if WotC decides a spirit companion CAN trigger an OA there are a number of open questions beyond that, some of which are also essentially the same questions which are open WRT other conjurations that can be the origin of attacks (hand spells) and sustainable zones that make to-hit roles, which in many respects fall into a similar category. 

Personally I'm just going to reserve judgment on spirit companion until I've had a chance to DM some adventures with a shaman in the party and see what works out best.


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## Obryn (Mar 25, 2009)

Effectively, a spirit companion can travel up to 41 squares if the shaman spends a minor + a move action, so I'm not all too concerned about OA's. 

I think the reason they're not OA-able is simply because there's nothing that says they _are._  You generally can't attack a Conjuration, and for those you can, the description is pretty specific on _how_ you can.  Basically, the spell description lays out everything you can possibly do to a conjuration, and if it's not there, you can't do it.

What perplexes me is their answer that the Companion is affected by Area and Close attacks.  That seems incorrect to me, given how specific the power description is.  So I'll just ignore that part, until I see errata that specifically changes the description.

-O


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## Kinneus (Mar 25, 2009)

Obryn said:


> I think the reason they're not OA-able is simply because there's nothing that says they _are._



Customer Service on that thread I linked to says they are... but Customer Service answers often feel like they're throwing darts at a corkboard labeled "yes/no".


			
				from the linked thread said:
			
		

> *My full questions*
> Hello! I am writing because I'm confused about a few things related to the Shaman:
> 
> 1) There are two new feats in the PHB2, Nimble Spirit (page 193) and Spirit Talker (page 196), both of which regulate the kind of action needed to "use" the Call Spirit Companion class feature (page 120). But from the wording it's not clear to me if the feats mean only to specify the action required to invoke the power (conjuring the spirit, normally a minor action), or also the action required to dismiss the spirit (also a minor action, described within the power).For example, if I were a shaman who took the Nimble Spirit feat, could I summon my spirit companion as a free action and dismiss it as a minor action? Or would I both summon and dismiss it using free actions?
> ...


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## Obryn (Mar 25, 2009)

Kinneus said:


> Customer Service on that thread I linked to says they are... but Customer Service answers often feel like they're throwing darts at a corkboard labeled "yes/no".



Doh!

In that case, change my answer to "I completely disagree with custserv and have no idea where they are getting either answer."   Again, if errata changes it, that's dandy.  As it stands, though, I will go with what I think are the clearly-correct answers.

-O


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## fba827 (Mar 25, 2009)

Kinneus said:


> > 3) Also regarding conjurations in general (PHB page 59), I see that conjurations share the defenses of the person who summoned them. What about defense conditionally modified by feats? For example, if I summoned a conjuration that could provoke opportunity attacks, and if I had the Defensive Mobility feat (PHB page 194), would my conjuration gain +2 to AC against opportunity attacks that it triggered by moving?
> >
> > 3. Your conjuration would gain the benefit as well.




You know, I asked the EXACT same question about summoning.  I realize this is a conjuration instead of summoning but the wording about defenses is the same for both.
But in response to my question, I was told "no" by customer service.

I'll chalk it up to some difference between conjurations and summons and leave it at that.  But just wanted to mention it since I saw the response that you had received...


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## DracoSuave (Mar 26, 2009)

fba827 said:


> You know, I asked the EXACT same question about summoning.  I realize this is a conjuration instead of summoning but the wording about defenses is the same for both.




Actually the wording is different.

A summoning has your defenses, without temporary modifiers, whereas a conjuration has your defenses, all temporary modifiers included.

So if your spirit companion is granting adjacent creatures +1 AC, then if you are adjacent to it, the spirit companion would benefit from it.   If a summoning granted adjacent creatures +1 AC, then it would -not- recieve that bonus if you were adjacent.

As for the OA question--Nothing in either Spirit Companion nor Conjuration says that it triggers OAs or that it is a creature.  So, you refer to the rules regarding effects.  If you move a zone beside a player, does that trigger an OA that permits them to potentially attack the zone?  Does Mage Hand trigger an OA?  Can you OA a fireball (as opposed to the user)?

The reason there is confusion is because people are assuming it is something that it is not.  Honestly.


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## Lucas Blackstone (Mar 26, 2009)

Are there updated rules to conjurations that says they no longer can be objects or creatures? The entire way the power is worded screams that a creature was conjured. If so this would solve many of the issues people are having. If not, then that's cool, I was just wondering.


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## DracoSuave (Mar 26, 2009)

Conjurations never were creatures.  If they were creatures, they'd say 'this is a creature' in the same way summonings do.


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## Kinneus (Mar 26, 2009)

DracoSuave said:


> As for the OA question--Nothing in either Spirit Companion nor Conjuration says that it triggers OAs or that it is a creature. So, you refer to the rules regarding effects. If you move a zone beside a player, does that trigger an OA that permits them to potentially attack the zone? Does Mage Hand trigger an OA? Can you OA a fireball (as opposed to the user)?
> 
> The reason there is confusion is because people are assuming it is something that it is not. Honestly.




Two things:
1. 







			
				PHB220 said:
			
		

> Normally, a conjuration cannot be attacked or physically affected.



Zones, Mage Hand and Flaming Sphere are all examples of 'normal' Conjurations that cannot be attacked or physically affected. Spirit Companions, however, can be attacked or physically affected. They are different. They are still Conjurations, yes, but they are obviously an exception to this rule, and the Conjuration rules themselves are silent on the subject of opportunity attacks, specifically.
So the answer to your rhetorical question is: "No, those things cannot be attacked by an OA, because those things cannot be attacked, period. But that has no bearing on a discussion of Spirit Companions, which explicitly can be attacked."

2. I think at least part of the reason people are confused is because Customer Service has gone out and explicitly said that, yes, they can be the targets of OA, while people like you continue to say, no, they can not be the targets of OA, because they are Conjurations.
At least you, unlike Customer Service, offer some rationale behind your ruling, so I consider you a step ahead. But I don't think it's fair to be dismissive of those still confused by the issue; it is hardly an open and shut case.


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## DracoSuave (Mar 26, 2009)

Kinneus said:


> Two things:
> 1.
> Zones, Mage Hand and Flaming Sphere are all examples of 'normal' Conjurations that cannot be attacked or physically affected. Spirit Companions, however, can be attacked or physically affected. They are different. They are still Conjurations, yes, but they are obviously an exception to this rule, and the Conjuration rules themselves are silent on the subject of opportunity attacks, specifically.
> So the answer to your rhetorical question is: "No, those things cannot be attacked by an OA, because those things cannot be attacked, period. But that has no bearing on a discussion of Spirit Companions, which explicitly can be attacked."




Actually my rationale is that OAs are triggered by creatures that do certain actions.  Spirit Companions are not creatures, and therefore cannot trigger those certain actions.  If the OA were triggered by objects that do certain actions or 'objects or creatures' then I'd say that spirit companions do.

It's the same as a Pendulum trap's attack, it swings past, and if it were a creature it -would- trigger OAs for that movement.  However, it does not because it's not a creature.  Objects do not trigger OAs.

Being targetable by MBA is irrelevant because it's not the basic attack that's the point of contention, but the trigger itself.



> 2. I think at least part of the reason people are confused is because Customer Service has gone out and explicitly said that, yes, they can be the targets of OA, while people like you continue to say, no, they can not be the targets of OA, because they are Conjurations.
> At least you, unlike Customer Service, offer some rationale behind your ruling, so I consider you a step ahead. But I don't think it's fair to be dismissive of those still confused by the issue; it is hardly an open and shut case.




They've also said that Area and Close attacks can affect a spirit companion when the Conjuration rules + spirit companion rules do not permit it, and only permit Melee and Ranged attacks.

Either there's going to be some errata/clarification/updates coming down the horn, or the CS people you're talking to are assuming it's a creature in the same way a beast companion is.


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## AbdulAlhazred (Mar 26, 2009)

DracoSuave said:


> Conjurations never were creatures.  If they were creatures, they'd say 'this is a creature' in the same way summonings do.




Except it does...



			
				PHB2 219 said:
			
		

> CONJURATION
> 
> Powers that have the conjuration keyword create conjurations, objects or creatures of magical energy.




Now, that is not absolutely definitive of anything, but given the description of a spirit companion and its overall 'creature-like' functionality, it is sure no reach to say that a conjuration IS in fact subject to the rules of creatures when no other explicit rule overrides them.

Since that statement admits of only 2 possibilities, object or creature, and there are almost no rules specific to objects, we can't really assume there is a difference between a creature and an object either. 

In any case WotC CS has issued a whole slew of answers on the subject. While they are not the final word and as usual aren't 100% consistent the general tone of their answers seems to go in the direction of the SC working like any other combatant in cases where nothing is specified. Thus they have ruled SC are subject to OA pretty consistently for example.


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## DracoSuave (Mar 29, 2009)

AbdulAlhazred said:


> Except it does...
> 
> 
> 
> Now, that is not absolutely definitive of anything, but given the description of a spirit companion and its overall 'creature-like' functionality, it is sure no reach to say that a conjuration IS in fact subject to the rules of creatures when no other explicit rule overrides them.




That statement also covers Flaming Sphere and Mage Hand and we go right back to that.  It says that a conjuration -can- be a creature, and that's not in contention.  If a specific power says a conjuration is a creature than it is and follows those rules.

However, Call Spirit Companion is not one of those powers and therefore the assumption cannot be made that it is anything but a power just like any other. 



> Since that statement admits of only 2 possibilities, object or creature, and there are almost no rules specific to objects, we can't really assume there is a difference between a creature and an object either.




A creature and an object are two different things, which is enough.  OAs are triggered by creatures, and without a trigger you can't take actions out of turn.  Being an object is not sufficient to trigger an OA.



> In any case WotC CS has issued a whole slew of answers on the subject. While they are not the final word and as usual aren't 100% consistent the general tone of their answers seems to go in the direction of the SC working like any other combatant in cases where nothing is specified. Thus they have ruled SC are subject to OA pretty consistently for example.




There's one more point against OAs for spirit companions.

Spirit companions do not take actions, they are moved by an effect.  They do not take move actions, nor -any- action.  Contrast with beast companions which take move actions simultaneously.  Compare with conjurations that also can be moved and use the same language and terminology.

Let's face it, the rules exist for having a creature and using powers through the creature, as evidenced by the ranger.  The spirit companion doesn't use rules even -close- to that. 

Besides -all- that... if a spirit companion were a creature, then it would have a basic attack, as -all creatures have melee basic attack-.  Nothing in its description says it does not.... so if it's a creature, where is its MBA?

Creature-like functionality doesn't even apply to a spirit companion.  It cannot run, it cannot shift, it does not respond to terrain, it doesn't even acknowledge wall powers that block movement.

It can act as the origin point of your powers, and has effects when people are adjacent to it, and a monster can pop-it if they get a good hit on it.  That's all it does.  That's not a creature, that's an over-glorified spell effect.


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