# You Have The Power! New Masters of the Universe RPG!



## Parmandur (Aug 8, 2020)

Well, well, well,this is interesting. Fandom is starting to line up some interesting stuff now:









						Legends of Grayskull Tabletop Roleplaying Game Announced
					

Players around the world will be able to wield the power of Grayskull in an upcoming tabletop [...]




					comicbook.com


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## Tonguez (Aug 9, 2020)

Fistos second cousin twice removed really?

Im not familair with the Cortext Prime system (because it looked too complex) anyone want to comment on the ‘fit’ to MoTU.

I diduse the old D20 MoTU document that was going around a while back...


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## Parmandur (Aug 9, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Fistos second cousin twice removed really?
> 
> Im not familair with the Cortext Prime system (because it looked too complex) anyone want to comment on the ‘fit’ to MoTU.
> 
> I diduse the old D20 MoTU document that was going around a while back...




I'm not directly familiar with it, but I've always heard good things, particularly in regards to being malleable to different genres and allowing PCs of wildly different power levels in the fiction to play nice together.


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## Jeff Carpenter (Aug 9, 2020)

The trick is modeling swords and lasers so it makes sense that they are both viable weapons....or not it is frigging He Man no one realy dies anyway.


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## pemerton (Aug 9, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Im not familair with the Cortext Prime system (because it looked too complex) anyone want to comment on the ‘fit’ to MoTU.



i've played a fair bit of Marvel Heroic and also a Fantasy Hack of that system. It's not particularly complex (assuming D&D as a baseline). I don't know the Cotex Prime variant but assuming it's fairly similar it should do MotU pretty straightforwardly.


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## Parmandur (Aug 9, 2020)

pemerton said:


> i've played a fair bit of Marvel Heroic and also a Fantasy Hack of that system. It's not particularly complex (assuming D&D as a baseline). I don't know the Cotex Prime variant but assuming it's fairly similar it should do MotU pretty straightforwardly.




They have a sample Cortex Prime game up on their website, a Thunderbirds homage, and without prior system familiarity I found it a bit overwhelming when I checked it out this afternoon...


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## Jadeite (Aug 9, 2020)

Abilities should have been called 'action features'.


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## Umbran (Aug 9, 2020)

Parmandur said:


> They have a sample Cortex Prime game up on their website, a Thunderbirds homage, and without prior system familiarity I found it a bit overwhelming when I checked it out this afternoon...




Cortex uses its dice a little differently than some games.  

You will assemble a pool of dice for the test, and roll them.  

You pick two, and add them.  That's your result.
If any dice came up 1, that's a "hitch" or complication the GM may add to the narrative/situation.
If _all_ dice come up 1, that's a botch.  Bad things happen.
In some situations, you will also pick another one of the dice to be the "effects" die - only the number of sides matter, not the number you rolled.  If you have no eligible dice to choose, your effect die is assumed to be a d4.

In the Thunderbirds homage game (called Hammerheads) - it is a simple Stat + Skill.  Take the die in your Attribute, your die in the skill, roll them. 

There maybe assets you have, points you can spend, or pools you can draw from to add dice to your pool for your test.


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## pemerton (Aug 9, 2020)

For anyone who's interested, here's a link to my Cortex+ MERP/LotR thread which has materials and session reports that show the system (in its MHRP/Fantasy Heroic version) at work.

That should give a sense of how it might work for MotU.


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## Aldarc (Aug 9, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Fistos second cousin twice removed really?



It seems par on the course for how a lot of comic book and cartoon characters enter the fiction of their respective universes. Seemingly unknown relatives show up. Alternate universe versions. Clones. Etc. 



> Im not familair with the Cortext Prime system (because it looked too complex) anyone want to comment on the ‘fit’ to MoTU.



Most of the complexity, IMO, comes from using Cortex Prime to create a new game/campaign/setting as one has to choose the particular knobs, levers, and pulleys that will be in play for the game. However, when playing a pre-constructed game setting (e.g., Marvel, Firefly, Smallville, etc.) then that removes a lot of the complexity. 



pemerton said:


> i've played a fair bit of Marvel Heroic and also a Fantasy Hack of that system. It's not particularly complex (assuming D&D as a baseline). I don't know the Cotex Prime variant but assuming it's fairly similar it should do MotU pretty straightforwardly.



Cortex Prime is less a variant and more of a standardization and compilation of the various Cortex rules sets.


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

How many dice out of the die pool does it take to sideline Stratos like Aquaman?


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## Aldarc (Aug 9, 2020)

R_J_K75 said:


> How many dice out of the die pool does it take to sideline Stratos like Aquaman?



Games like Fate and Cortex tend to do a good job at making sure that characters like Stratos and Mekaneck can occupy similar narrative space and sway in the fiction as characters like He-Man and Zodak. This is what makes them pretty good for running games with an ensemble of variously powered characters.


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## polyhedral man (Aug 9, 2020)

The Fandom & Cortex+ alliance is the gift that keeps on giving! My 12 year old self would have been over the moon with these news! I owe it to him to get this and play it. Thank you guys, looking forward to it!
Nostalgia overload


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> Games like Fate and Cortex tend to do a good job at making sure that characters like Stratos and Mekaneck can occupy similar narrative space and sway in the fiction as characters like He-Man and Zodak. This is what makes them pretty good for running games with an ensemble of variously powered characters.




Man Id forgotten all about Zodak.  Wasnt he like the Watcher or the Beyonder of Masters of the Universe?  He-Man jumped the shark with Moss Man and Skunkor.


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## Raduin711 (Aug 9, 2020)

Cortex shares a bit of DNA with games like Fate, where there is more importance on things like character relationships, player input, complications, etc.


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## Tonguez (Aug 9, 2020)

R_J_K75 said:


> How many dice out of the die pool does it take to sideline Stratos like Aquaman?




well now that Stratos has the accent of Sean Connery he has become one of the sexier Heroic Warriors of Eternia




R_J_K75 said:


> Man Id forgotten all about Zodak.  Wasnt he like the Watcher or the Beyonder of Masters of the Universe?  He-Man jumped the shark with Moss Man and Skunkor.




Zodac was inspired by the New God Metron (DC) and was portrayed originally as a Neutral Cosmic Enforcer, who watches over the conflict on Eternia and intervens on both sides of the conflict to maintain Peace and Balance in the Universe. Hes probably, maybe the most powerful character on Eternia.\

In the reboot he became more linked to the Ancient Eternias and had a direct enmity to King Hiss and the Snakemen


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> well now that Stratos has the accent of Sean Connery he has become one of the sexier Heroic Warriors of Eternia




Wait, Wait...Alex Trebex...Will Fatrell..Sean Connerwy has come out of retirement?


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> well now that Stratos has the accent of Sean Connery he has become one of the sexier Heroic Warriors of Eternia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

Wasnt he kinda useless?  I had to go to Canada to complete my collection.  Thank god they made Southern Comfort!


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## Aldarc (Aug 9, 2020)

R_J_K75 said:


> Wasnt he kinda useless?  I had to go to Canada to complete my collection.  Thank god they made Southern Comfort!



It's kinda hard to argue that a character who can fly is useless when there is a "master of the universe" whose only power amounts to hyper-extending his neck.


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> It's kinda hard to argue that a character who can fly is useless when there is a "master of the universe" whose only power amounts to hyper-extending his neck.




Exactly...I got nothing.  Kevin Smith, how the mighty have fallen...dont get me started on Mewes


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## pemerton (Aug 9, 2020)

Raduin711 said:


> Cortex shares a bit of DNA with games like Fate, where there is more importance on things like character relationships, player input, complications, etc.



Like I posted upthread, my experience of Cortex+ is with the MHRP variant, including adapting ("hacking") it for fantasy.

PC relationships are not super-important mechanically in that version (but can be important for Milestones, which in D&D terms can be compared to Bonds or Ideals and which underpin the XP sysstem). But lots of fictional elements are created in the course of play including by player checks - it's not a "maps and notes" system like traditional D&D. And complications are certainly an important category of consequences, both mechanically and narratively.


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## Tonguez (Aug 9, 2020)

R_J_K75 said:


> Wait, Wait...Alex Trebex...Will Fatrell..Sean Connerwy has come out of retirement?




No, Scott McNeil did the voice work and his scottish accent was very Connery


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## Tonguez (Aug 9, 2020)

pemerton said:


> Like I posted upthread, my experience of Cortex+ is with the MHRP variant, including adapting ("hacking") it for fantasy.
> 
> PC relationships are not super-important mechanically in that version (but can be important for Milestones, which in D&D terms can be compared to Bonds or Ideals and which underpin the XP sysstem). But lots of fictional elements are created in the course of play including by player checks - it's not a "maps and notes" system like traditional D&D. And complications are certainly an important category of consequences, both mechanically and narratively.




Ok Im familiar 
with FATE so are Milestones and Distinctions similar to Aspects?
And SFX would be Stunts?

What Im not clear on is how the different dice work and what the in game effect of

so using your Gandalf write up if he was using Glamdring v Orcs he’d roll Combat Expert d8 + Galmdring d8 to test success and then for the effect would add Foe-hammer+d6?

what does stepping up mean and what effects?

also Doom Pool?


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## Blue (Aug 9, 2020)

The new Netflix She-Ra is pretty awesome, and my roleplayer kids thought so as well.  My little kid self remembers the 80s version.  And I had kickstarted Cortex Prime because I was a fan of Cortex+ games like Marvel Heroic Roleplay - the best comic book (vs. superhero) game I've seen, and also the best at dealing with power disparities like Thor and Hawkeye on the same team and both feeling challenged and valuable.

So I guess I'm the target market.  Success - I'll buy this.  Excited even.

Cortex Prime is a "generic" system in a way that even GURPS or Hero System never attempted.  In that you even determine what ability score analogs are right for your game.  Much like many of the PbtA change them to fit the theme, style, and type of play they are focusing on, that's built into Cortex Prime.  So the base system is almost like a meta-system, a toolbox for making your particular game tailored to exactly the experience you want, and without leftover cruft weighing it down from trying to be everything to everybody.  I have all the kickstarter iterations, I'm really impressed with it.  Cam Banks did a kick butt job.


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> It's kinda hard to argue that a character who can fly is useless when there is a "master of the universe" whose only power amounts to hyper-extending his neck.




Hes on steroids


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## pemerton (Aug 9, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Ok Im familiar
> with FATE so are Milestones and Distinctions similar to Aspects?
> And SFX would be Stunts?



Distinctions are a bit like Aspects, yes. At least in the MHRP version (which is the one I know), Distinctions serve both as components of the dice pool (either at d8, or at d4 and earn a Plot Point) and also as targets of action. Eg if the scene includes a Buildings On Fire Scene Distinction, then to extinguish the fire the heroes need to eliminate that Distinction. In my fantasy games we've also used Scene Distinctions for more "metaphysical" elements like Pursued by Orcs (eliminate the Scene Distinction to evade the pursuers) or Uncertain of What to Do Next (when the ranger in our LotR game eliminated this he was able to set the group's goal for the next scene.

SFX are similar to stunts, yes (I say that without being any sort of Fate expert). Mostly they allow for dice pool manipulation of various sorts, or stepping up certain effects inflicted or avoiding/reducing certain incoming effects.

Milestones are different from anything I know of in Fate: they are descriptions of events that happen (eg _give a team member advice _or _inflict trauma on a foe_ or _lead the team into battle_, etc) and when the character does that thing XP are earned. In practice - at least in my experience - what milestones do is create a player-side to the action, as the players look for ways to have their PCs achieve their milestones and earn XP - which runs alongside the GM side to the action, of the settings and foes etc. I think it emulates comics and a lot of other adventure fiction well, as the character drama and character arcs unfold somewhat independently of whatever the particular action is that is happening at a given moment.



Tonguez said:


> What Im not clear on is how the different dice work
> 
> <snip>
> 
> what does stepping up mean and what effects?



To perform an action you build a pool - in MHRP that's one affiliation (solo, buddy or team), one Distinction, one power from each power set (if applicable), one specialty (if applicable - in D&D terms this is roughly the same as skills), any assets or resources that are applicable (roughly, these are gear or other situational benefits that have been built up through prior actions), any debuffs on the opponent (eg injuries or complications), and any bonus dice gained by spending plot points (eg to include a second specialty or second Distinction).

The player gets to add two dice to generate the roll total (extra dice can be added by spending points) and use another die as the effect. All checks are opposed, and so (unless you have an SFX that says otherwise) you only achieve your effect if you tie against or beat the opposition with your roll total.

Your effect depends on die size, not die roll - so having 10s and 12s in the pool is a big deal even if they roll poorly, as they give good effect dice. All effects are rated in dice, which are then applied as debuffs (stress, complications) or to step down other ratings (eg a d8 or greater effect will eliminate the typical Scene Distinction) or to create assets (which could be gear or a situational advantage or any other change in the fiction that benefits a character). I think this idea of rating everything in dice is mechanically different from Fate.



Tonguez said:


> so using your Gandalf write up if he was using Glamdring v Orcs he’d roll Combat Expert d8 + Galmdring d8 to test success and then for the effect would add Foe-hammer+d6?



When Gandalf fights Orcs with Galmdring the pool might be d6 BUDDY (let's say he's fighting alongside Aragorn), d8 WIELDER OF THE FLAME OF ANOR (because when fighting servants of Sauron Gandalf's own power as a servant of Iluvatar comes to the fore), d8 for WEAPON plus d6 for the Foe-hammer SFX, and d8 for COMBAT EXPERT. He could also put in d8 for ENHANCED STRENGTH because that helps in a sword-fight against orcs.

So that would be a (pretty good) pool of 2d6+4d8. He could also use Servant of the Secret Fire to make the d8 from Enhanced Strength a d10 instead, with the risk that a failure will add a d8 to the Doom Pool.

If Gandalf succeeds (all checks are opposed - in this case it would be vs the orcs but if there's no active opposition then it's vs the Doom Pool) then one of his dice becomes an effect based on size and, because of Foe-hammer, would be stepped up by one (eg d8 to d10).

I think the other versions of the system use smaller pools than I'm used to from this MHRP version, but of participants in this thread @Aldarc is probably better placed to address that.



Tonguez said:


> also Doom Pool?



This starts at 2 to 4 dice of size d6 to d10, depending on the scope and stakes of the drama as decided by the GM. In our LotR game it was 2d8. The Doom Pool grows over time, mostly by paying players Plot Points when they roll 1s, but in various other ways also (eg when a NPC uses a character Distinction at d4 rather than d8, which would earn a player a plot point, the GM instead gets to grow the Doom Pool).

These dice do three things: (1) they are the opposition for player rolls when there is no active opposition in the fiction; (2) they are a source of "points" for the GM to spend to activate SFX or add to the GM's pools, analogous to plot points for the players; (3) it serves a pacing function, especially because the GM can spend 2d12 from the Doom Pool (if they're there to be spent) to peremptorily end a scene.

Learning how to manage the Doom Pool is, at least in my view, the hardest thing and most important skill in refereeing this system. But I don't know if Cortex Prime or MotU will use this mechanic. Personally it's one I really like, although it has some quirks because of the multiple roles it plays. As I already said I don't have much Fate-fu, but I think a difference from Fate is that the GM doesn't have a limitless pool of aspects or opposition - the Doom Pool constrains this in interesting ways.


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## imagineGod (Aug 9, 2020)

Parmandur said:


> Well, well, well,this is interesting. Fandom is starting to line up some interesting stuff now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for this link. Even better than the Geek Native one. The two sample characters brought back great memories of Mattel action figures.


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## R_J_K75 (Aug 9, 2020)

pemerton said:


> Distinctions are a bit like Aspects, yes. At least in the MHRP version (which is the one I know), Distinctions serve both as components of the dice pool (either at d8, or at d4 and earn a Plot Point) and also as targets of action. Eg if the scene includes a Buildings On Fire Scene Distinction, then to extinguish the fire the heroes need to eliminate that Distinction. In my fantasy games we've also used Scene Distinctions for more "metaphysical" elements like Pursued by Orcs (eliminate the Scene Distinction to evade the pursuers) or Uncertain of What to Do Next (when the ranger in our LotR game eliminated this he was able to set the group's goal for the next scene.
> 
> SFX are similar to stunts, yes (I say that without being any sort of Fate expert). Mostly they allow for dice pool manipulation of various sorts, or stepping up certain effects inflicted or avoiding/reducing certain incoming effects.
> 
> ...




Damn you wrote a lot of things about He-Man


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## Dungeonosophy (Aug 9, 2020)

My first He-Man figure was the little-known Faker guy. Basically He-Man with blue plastic instead of Caucasian-flesh plastic. 

Yes, my 12-year-old self is happy to see this news.


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## Tonguez (Aug 9, 2020)

Anyone played Demonhunters A comedy of Terrors?
Apparently its a nice mash-up of Fate and Cortex
And they have this sample character


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## Dungeonosophy (Aug 9, 2020)

Added Legends of Grayskull RPG and Dragon Prince RPG to...
*The world's most complete directory of tabletop RPG depictions of fictive worlds which originated in other media*


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## Umbran (Aug 9, 2020)

pemerton said:


> To perform an action you build a pool - in MHRP that's one affiliation (solo, buddy or team), one Distinction, one power from each power set (if applicable), one specialty (if applicable - in D&D terms this is roughly the same as skills), any assets or resources that are applicable (roughly, these are gear or other situational benefits that have been built up through prior actions), any debuffs on the opponent (eg injuries or complications), and any bonus dice gained by spending plot points (eg to include a second specialty or second Distinction).






> I think the other versions of the system use smaller pools than I'm used to from this MHRP version, but of participants in this thread @Aldarc is probably better placed to address that.




In the _Leverage_ Cortex+ game, the character has just Attribute and Role, as opposed to the Affiliation, Distinction, and possibly multiple Powers, seen in MHRP.


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## imagineGod (Aug 9, 2020)

Dungeonosophy said:


> Added Legends of Grayskull RPG and Dragon Prince RPG to...
> *The world's most complete directory of tabletop RPG depictions of fictive worlds which originated in other media*



Bloody Hell! Great collection there. And I never knew about this site. Thank you for sharing . And thank you to The Masters of the Universe for triggering this response from Dungeonosophy.


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## Sunsword (Aug 9, 2020)

Has Cortex Prime been released?


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## Eyes of Nine (Aug 9, 2020)

Sunsword said:


> Has Cortex Prime been released?



Recent update from late July. Looks like it's moving along.








						Update 62: July Update: Hammerheads Spotlight! · Cortex Prime: A Multi-Genre Modular Roleplaying Game
					

Ahoy ahoy, Cortex-Philes! With the Game Handbook off at press, the System Reference undergoing structural editorial review, and the Cortex RPG digital platform in development, and some other exciting announcements coming very soon, everything Cortex is coming together nicely. This month’s update...




					www.kickstarter.com
				




And @Cam Banks can probably add color and flavor to this discussion overall.


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## Sunsword (Aug 9, 2020)

pemerton said:


> Your effect depends on die size, not die roll - so having 10s and 12s in the pool is a big deal even if they roll poorly, as they give good effect dice. All effects are rated in dice, which are then applied as debuffs (stress, complications) or to step down other ratings (eg a d8 or greater effect will eliminate the typical Scene Distinction) or to create assets (which could be gear or a situational advantage or any other change in the fiction that benefits a character). I think this idea of rating everything in dice is mechanically different from Fate.




This was the source of a good deal of frustration in the game I played in. Since Marvel characters can easily have a d12 conflicts ended quickly and were fairly boring. I'm not saying we were playing everything the right way but it did leave a sour taste in my mouth.

I will admit, however, I will still buy Legend of Grayskull.


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## imagineGod (Aug 9, 2020)

I am so stoke for this RPG and it is not a D&D 5th Edition one to boot, either.

[video]


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## Tonguez (Aug 9, 2020)

Eyes of Nine said:


> Recent update from late July. Looks like it's moving along.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah unfortunately that spotlight just confused me more - too much focus on fiddling dice AND I still not sure what effect dice do,

So if I have a d6 Effect does it mean I can create a weapon that is worth +d6
I probabaly need to see the dice rolls in action...


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## imagineGod (Aug 9, 2020)

Please, do not laugh, but this was a thing in the 80s. Super cheesy and not channeling Masters of the Universe.


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## uzirath (Aug 9, 2020)

Blue said:


> The new Netflix She-Ra is pretty awesome, and my roleplayer kids thought so as well.  My little kid self remembers the 80s version.



My family loves that show too. I was wondering if this RPG would work as well for She-Ra. I didn’t watch the original shows, so I don’t know how similar they are.


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## stadi (Aug 9, 2020)

imagineGod said:


> Please, do not laugh, but this was a thing in the 80s. Super cheesy and not channeling Masters of the Universe.
> 
> View attachment 124589




This was one of my favorite movies back then. Had it on a VHS. Watched it a lot.


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## Greatwyrm (Aug 9, 2020)

Sunsword said:


> Has Cortex Prime been released?



Officially, no.  There's a almost-final-draft version that has gone to Kickstarter backers.  Laid out, art, the whole nine yards.  It's playable right now, but I'm assuming they're doing a last editing pass and doing whatever needs to be done to make it ready for the printer.


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## BadEye (Aug 10, 2020)

Greatwyrm said:


> Officially, no.  There's a almost-final-draft version that has gone to Kickstarter backers.  Laid out, art, the whole nine yards.  It's playable right now, but I'm assuming they're doing a last editing pass and doing whatever needs to be done to make it ready for the printer.



It's actually at the printer now. We expect it to at least start getting out to backers towards the end of September. Available elsewhere after that. (As long as we don't run into any other pandemic-related delays with the printer.)


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## pemerton (Aug 10, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> I still not sure what effect dice do,



All outcomes of actions are rated as effects.

Eg if my action is to summon my magical power so I can use it to unleash a great sorcerious blast onto my enemy, then in mechanical terms I am attempting to create an Asset (Summoned Magical Energy) and, if I succeed in my action, I have created that asset rated at my effect die (in the fiction, imagine it like a panel from a Doctor Strange comic where a wizard is holding a ball of energy in his/her hands). When I then use my Mystical Blast power to attack my foe, I can add the Asset into my pool, which gives me a bigger pool as per my post above.

Suppose my Mysical Blast attack succeeds, then the outcome is also an effect die. In Marvel Heroic (again, I'm not sure about other Cortex variants) if that is stepped up above d12 then the opponent is taken out of hte conflict; otherwise it sits on the opponent as a "trait" which can then be incorporated into dice pools for actions taken against them (ie MHRP the way a debuff works is that it adds a bonus die to an opponent's pool). This means that having a d10 or d12 complication or injury is a bad thing, because all your opponents are getting to add that d10 or d12 to eir pools, even if they are otherwise fairly ordinary foes with abilities rated at d6 and d8.

In attrition-based conflict systems (eg D&D hit points) it often doesn't make sense to spend an action building up an augmentation for a future action, because the buff isn't worth not getting the chance to wear away some hp/life force/whatever. But MHRP isn't attrition-based. If a foe has (say) a d6 Grappled complication and then I succeed again in grappling them with a d10 effect die, the d6 complication is replaced by my d10. So my d10 is not more effective than it would have been if they had had no prior complication. (The exception to this: if the new effect is rated the same as or smaller than the existing effect then it steps that up: so if the opponent was under a d12 Grappled complication and then I successfully grapple with a d6 effect, that is enough to step the effect up above d12 which takes the opponent out of the scene - in this case I might narrate that I've completely immobilised them, or successfully applied  choke-hold, or whatever lese makes sense in the fiction). This is why having d10s and d12s in pools is so useful from the point of view of generating effects, and also why spending a term to build up an asset so as to grow your next pool can make plenty of sense.

It also explains Sunsword's complaint:



Sunsword said:


> This was the source of a good deal of frustration in the game I played in. Since Marvel characters can easily have a d12 conflicts ended quickly and were fairly boring. I'm not saying we were playing everything the right way but it did leave a sour taste in my mouth.



I can see what you mean here. It's not something we've experienced too much of, even in games with characters whose abilities are rated at d12, but I can see how it could happen especially eg if you've got multple d12 Strength or Weapon characters getting into a lot of melee-type fights against opponents with no Stamina-based SFX to shrug off those hits.

To keep replying to @Tonguez: because the system is not attrition based, a character with d12 Godlike Strength who succeeds on an action to punch someone can fairly easily have a d12 effect die which might (due to various factors, eg think back to how I statted up Glamdring for Gandalf) step up to d12+ which is an instant take-out (because take-out is based on effect rating, not attrition). This is what is happening in Sunsword's game which is making for boring conflicts.

Like I said just above, I personally haven't found this to be a big issue but I can see how it might happen with a particular group of characters in the right sort of conflicts. My general advice would be, at the start of a campaign, to not have PCs with d12 ratings. Let these be earned through play. Then the growth of those dice pools will correspond more to the growth of the campaign towards a resolution.

A final thought/comment, building on the prevous paragraph: I think Cortex+ works better for short-to-medium length arcs (eg a few to maybe a dozen sessions) rather than years-long D&D style 1st-to-20th level campaigns.


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## Greatwyrm (Aug 10, 2020)

BadEye said:


> It's actually at the printer now.



I'm perfectly happy to have been wrong about that.  I really like what you've put together.


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## Umbran (Aug 10, 2020)

Sunsword said:


> I'm not saying we were playing everything the right way but it did leave a sour taste in my mouth.




Yes.  Unfortunatley, MSRP is probably the most complex implementation of the system around, and it may not be the best entry point into the engine.


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## Sunsword (Aug 10, 2020)

pemerton said:


> It also explains Sunsword's complaint:
> 
> I can see what you mean here. It's not something we've experienced too much of, even in games with characters whose abilities are rated at d12, but I can see how it could happen especially eg if you've got multple d12 Strength or Weapon characters getting into a lot of melee-type fights against opponents with no Stamina-based SFX to shrug off those hits.




I know there is a Hacker's Guide to Cortex and the forthcoming Cortex Prime. I also remember started life as a fairly traditional game engine with the Sovereign Stone RPG. Does either the Hacker's Guide or Cortex Prime have options for traditional hit points?


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## pemerton (Aug 10, 2020)

Sunsword said:


> I know there is a Hacker's Guide to Cortex and the forthcoming Cortex Prime. I also remember started life as a fairly traditional game engine with the Sovereign Stone RPG. Does either the Hacker's Guide or Cortex Prime have options for traditional hit points?



I don't know about Cortex Prime. I haven't read all of the Hacker's Guide, but I think the answer is _no_.


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## Aldarc (Aug 10, 2020)

Sunsword said:


> I know there is a Hacker's Guide to Cortex and the forthcoming Cortex Prime. I also remember started life as a fairly traditional game engine with the Sovereign Stone RPG. Does either the Hacker's Guide or Cortex Prime have options for traditional hit points?



Not to my knowledge, but if you have a sense of what damage could be based on the die face of the Effect die, then I imagine that it would not be too difficult to extrapolate and/or experiment from there a good range of hit points for characters. However, Stress in Cortex (and Fate) tends to be less a pacing mechanic of tactical attrition as per HP and more a pacing mechanic of narrative fiction.


----------



## GMMichael (Aug 10, 2020)

pemerton said:


> Eg if my action is to summon my magical power so I can use it to unleash a great sorcerious blast onto my enemy, then in mechanical terms I am attempting to create an Asset (Summoned Magical Energy) and, if I succeed in my action, I have created that asset rated at my effect die (in the fiction, imagine it like a panel from a Doctor Strange comic where a wizard is holding a ball of energy in his/her hands). When I then use my Mystical Blast power to attack my foe, I can add the Asset into my pool, which gives me a bigger pool as per my post above.  Suppose my Mysical Blast attack succeeds, then the outcome is also an effect die. In Marvel Heroic (again, I'm not sure about other Cortex variants) if that is stepped up above d12 then the opponent is taken out of hte conflict; otherwise it sits on the opponent as a "trait" which can then be incorporated into dice pools for actions taken against them (ie MHRP the way a debuff works is that it adds a bonus die to an opponent's pool). This means that having a d10 or d12 complication or injury is a bad thing, because all your opponents are getting to add that d10 or d12 to eir pools, even if they are otherwise fairly ordinary foes with abilities rated at d6 and d8.  In attrition-based conflict systems (eg D&D hit points) it often doesn't make sense to spend an action building up an augmentation for a future action, because the buff isn't worth not getting the chance to wear away some hp/life force/whatever. But MHRP isn't attrition-based. If a foe has (say) a d6 Grappled complication and then I succeed again in grappling them with a d10 effect die, the d6 complication is replaced by my d10. So my d10 is not more effective than it would have been if they had had no prior complication. (The exception to this: if the new effect is rated the same as or smaller than the existing effect then it steps that up: so if the opponent was under a d12 Grappled complication and then I successfully grapple with a d6 effect, that is enough to step the effect up above d12 which takes the opponent out of the scene - in this case I might narrate that I've completely immobilised them, or successfully applied  choke-hold, or whatever lese makes sense in the fiction). This is why having d10s and d12s in pools is so useful from the point of view of generating effects, and also why spending a term to build up an asset so as to grow your next pool can make plenty of sense.
> 
> It also explains Sunsword's complaint: I can see what you mean here. It's not something we've experienced too much of, even in games with characters whose abilities are rated at d12, but I can see how it could happen especially eg if you've got multple d12 Strength or Weapon characters getting into a lot of melee-type fights against opponents with no Stamina-based SFX to shrug off those hits.  To keep replying to @Tonguez: because the system is not attrition based, a character with d12 Godlike Strength who succeeds on an action to punch someone can fairly easily have a d12 effect die which might (due to various factors, eg think back to how I statted up Glamdring for Gandalf) step up to d12+ which is an instant take-out (because take-out is based on effect rating, not attrition). This is what is happening in Sunsword's game which is making for boring conflicts.



Well.  That clears it right up.

Back when I played He-Man, it was 100% role-playing.  That seemed appropriate for a swordfighter who deemed a harness, buckler and loincloth to be appropriate armor, a prince in lavender tights (but no reporter/nerd glasses), a green tiger who became unrecognizable when it donned an 80-pound red helmet, a robot called - wait for it - Roboto, and an evil mastermind who was always defeated because brawn always beats strategy.


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## pemerton (Aug 10, 2020)

DMMike said:


> Back when I played He-Man, it was 100% role-playing.  That seemed appropriate for a swordfighter who deemed a harness, buckler and loincloth to be appropriate armor



This is something that Cortex does well. He-Man probably doesn't have a Durability attribute, but can build a defensive pool using other appropriate abilities, whether skill (eg Weapon, or Reflexes) and/or emotion/relationship (eg Must Rescue the Princess or whatever else is at stake in Masters of the Universe) and/or reputation/status (eg Indomitable Loincloth-wearing Hero). The details will depend on how this particular version of Cortex implements the general system framework.


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## Aldarc (Aug 10, 2020)

pemerton said:


> The details will depend on how this particular version of Cortex implements the general system framework.



Is that my cue? I saw these images on the Cortex Discord of one of the player characters: 

Affinities/Attributes: 


Spoiler










Machines, Magic, Might, Mind, Mischief, Mobility, Mystery 

Distinctions: 


Spoiler











Abilities? SFX: 


Spoiler











Assets: 


Spoiler


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## Stacie GmrGrl (Aug 10, 2020)

Wow this is awesome.


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## pemerton (Aug 10, 2020)

So, following @Aldarc's post, we can imagine He-Man having a high Affinity with Might, as well as an appropriate Distinction like Indomitable Loincloth-wearing Hero, and these - rather than any armour - will be what he uses to defend against physical threats.

Like I said, this is what Cortex does well.


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## Aldarc (Aug 10, 2020)

pemerton said:


> So, following @Aldarc's post, we can imagine He-Man having a high Affinity with Might, as well as an appropriate Distinction like Indomitable Loincloth-wearing Hero, and these - rather than any armour - will be what he uses to defend against physical threats.
> 
> Like I said, this is what Cortex does well.



PC: "Can I use my Sword of Power as an asset to defend against the boulder that Beastman throws at me?" 

Narrator: "How are you doing it?"

PC: "I try slicing it in half so that both halves go past me and Orko, who is behind me." 

Narrator: "Sure, you can use the Sword of Power as an asset in your pool."


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## TheIdeaOfGood (Aug 10, 2020)

imagineGod said:


> Please, do not laugh, but this was a thing in the 80s. Super cheesy and not channeling Masters of the Universe.
> 
> View attachment 124589





That movie was cheesy as hell indeed...and I loved it. Still do. Langella kills it as Skeletor. And, let's face it, Lundgren was not the worst choice for He-Man.

As for the game...I'll get it for the background but I think I'll use 5e instead (I can recommend Blades&Blasters for those who want sci-fi elements in their fantasy).
By the way...is there any place where one could get comprehensive info on Eternia etc.?


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## pemerton (Aug 10, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> PC: "Can I use my Sword of Power as an asset to defend against the boulder that Beastman throws at me?"
> 
> Narrator: "How are you doing it?"
> 
> ...



This is something that Cortex+ has in common with HeroWars/Quest, and Maelstrom Storytelling, and maybe Fate (I don't know it well enough to be sure) and contrasts with 3E and maybe 5e: _what is possible _is worked out directly from the fiction, and is a necessary precursor to deploying the resolution mechanics.

_Is it possible for the Sword of Power to cut a boulder in two?_ We can't answer that, as we would in 3E, by applying the damage mechanics and resistance mechanics and interaction-with-objects mechanics. Rather, the table (probably ed by the GM) makes a call, and then the resolution mechanics tell us _whether or not it actually happens on this occasion_.

This relies on having a good sense of the fiction. Clear images or stereotypes or similar help. This is why I think it's a good fit for Marvel Heroics, for LotR, and probably for MotU too!


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## Tonguez (Aug 10, 2020)

3e Homebrew Masters of the Universe d20 can be found here including a list of races and stat blocks for all the characters from both Eternia and Etheria

and Wiki Grayskull


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## TheIdeaOfGood (Aug 10, 2020)

Thanks, much appreciated.


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## jeffh (Aug 10, 2020)

Well, I like the magic-tech combo, and shorn of some of the cheesier elements it could make a fun game setting.


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## TheIdeaOfGood (Aug 10, 2020)

I recommend the 2002 reboot. Unfortunately, it was cancelled after 2 seasons but it dialed down the cheese and managed to make Skeletor a somewhat credible threat.


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## Aldarc (Aug 10, 2020)

TheIdeaOfGood said:


> I recommend the 2002 reboot. Unfortunately, it was cancelled after 2 seasons but it dialed down the cheese and managed to make Skeletor a somewhat credible threat.



Their original plan was actually to have Skeleton be the one who defeats Hordak rather than He-Man just to reaffirm his top dog status as a threat.


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## Aldarc (Aug 10, 2020)

pemerton said:


> This is something that Cortex+ has in common with HeroWars/Quest, and Maelstrom Storytelling, and maybe Fate (I don't know it well enough to be sure) and contrasts with 3E and maybe 5e: _what is possible _is worked out directly from the fiction, and is a necessary precursor to deploying the resolution mechanics.
> 
> _Is it possible for the Sword of Power to cut a boulder in two?_ We can't answer that, as we would in 3E, by applying the damage mechanics and resistance mechanics and interaction-with-objects mechanics. Rather, the table (probably ed by the GM) makes a call, and then the resolution mechanics tell us _whether or not it actually happens on this occasion_.
> 
> This relies on having a good sense of the fiction. Clear images or stereotypes or similar help. This is why I think it's a good fit for Marvel Heroics, for LotR, and probably for MotU too!



This is also a big reason why I would prefer to run something like Masters of the Universe with Fate or Cortex than the D&D 5Engine. I already know that Fate can do He-Man, because that is essentially what Masters of Umdaar is meant to simulate. But IMHO a lot of the best Cortex and Fate action requires engaging the fiction as part of the process of assembling a dice pool.


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## stadi (Aug 10, 2020)

I watched the demo video posted here and I really did not like how the GM had to roll after every player roll. Gameplay must be extremely slow this way.


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## Umbran (Aug 10, 2020)

pemerton said:


> This is something that Cortex+ has in common with HeroWars/Quest, and Maelstrom Storytelling, and maybe Fate (I don't know it well enough to be sure) and contrasts with 3E and maybe 5e: _what is possible _is worked out directly from the fiction, and is a necessary precursor to deploying the resolution mechanics.




Typically, Fate works similarly.  Sometimes how an Aspect may be applicable is obvious (I'm in a melee, and I have the Aspect "Former Heavyweight Boxing Champion" - duh!).  When it is not, if the player can describe how it might apply, and the GM finds it plausible in the fiction, it may be applied.

There are some variants of Fate in which, for example, in which using a weapon in a fight does not change how much stress you do - it merely changes the fiction, and thus what Aspects, Skills, and Stunts may be relevant.


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## Ralif Redhammer (Aug 10, 2020)

The optimal combat choice should always be throwing your opponent into the conveniently-placed lake below.



Jeff Carpenter said:


> The trick is modeling swords and lasers so it makes sense that they are both viable weapons....or not it is frigging He Man no one realy dies anyway.




I played Demonhunters at a con. It was fun and easy to understand. It felt more Fate than Cortex, though less narrative than pure Fate.



Tonguez said:


> Anyone played Demonhunters A comedy of Terrors?
> Apparently its a nice mash-up of Fate and Cortex


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## Aldarc (Aug 10, 2020)

stadi said:


> I watched the demo video posted here and I really did not like how the GM had to roll after every player roll. Gameplay must be extremely slow this way.



I believe there is an option in Cortex Prime to use static opposition or a scaling ladder. It's an incredibly flexible toolkit.


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## Undrave (Aug 10, 2020)

Jadeite said:


> Abilities should have been called 'action features'.




That's a thing in Cartoon Action Hour


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## Undrave (Aug 10, 2020)

Blue said:


> My little kid self remembers the 80s version.





uzirath said:


> My family loves that show too. I was wondering if this RPG would work as well for She-Ra. I didn’t watch the original shows, so I don’t know how similar they are.




If you and the family are curious, both He-Man and She-Ra (80's version) have official Youtube channels with all the eps available for free and legally.


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## Blue (Aug 10, 2020)

TheIdeaOfGood said:


> I recommend the 2002 reboot. Unfortunately, it was cancelled after 2 seasons but it dialed down the cheese and managed to make Skeletor a somewhat credible threat.



Do you know if this is available anywhere?  Released on Youtube, on Netflix or a different streaming service?


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## imagineGod (Aug 10, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> 3e Homebrew Masters of the Universe d20 can be found here including a list of races and stat blocks for all the characters from both Eternia and Etheria
> 
> and Wiki Grayskull



D&D 3rd Edition for Masters of the Universe? I grew up with D&D 3.5 but seriously, I cannot imagine d20 is the right style for MoTU.


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## Sunsword (Aug 10, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> Not to my knowledge, but if you have a sense of what damage could be based on the die face of the Effect die, then I imagine that it would not be too difficult to extrapolate and/or experiment from there a good range of hit points for characters. However, Stress in Cortex (and Fate) tends to be less a pacing mechanic of tactical attrition as per HP and more a pacing mechanic of narrative fiction.




That is an excellent point, unfortunately, I prefer games with hit points and generally won't run games without them. This could be the exception though.


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## Sunsword (Aug 10, 2020)

stadi said:


> I watched the demo video posted here and I really did not like how the GM had to roll after every player roll. Gameplay must be extremely slow this way.




You could probably have the player roll the Doom pool as part of their dice pool and it would pretty much work the same way. I'm not going to say the FFG's Genesys system was inspired by Cortex but they have similar goals.


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## TheIdeaOfGood (Aug 10, 2020)

Blue said:


> Do you know if this is available anywhere?  Released on Youtube, on Netflix or a different streaming service?



Unfortunately it seems to be on no streaming service


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## LuisCarlos17f (Aug 10, 2020)

You know perfectly Mattel was not going to use the d20 system created by WotC, a subsidiarie by the rival company, Hasbro. And d20 system isn't ready for characters and creatures with super-strenght. In the real life a gorilla or an elephant are very much stronger than an olimpic champion. (21 Str in d20). 









						How Strong is a Gorilla? Silverback Strength vs Humans (Grizzly, Lion, Croc)
					

Just how strong is a gorilla? How does it compare to a human? In this post, you'll learn about a gorillas strength, including how much it can lift, it's bite strength and more. Who would




					storyteller.travel
				




And African elephants can weigh up to 6,350kg and they can carry up to 9,000kg, the weight of 130 adult humans (28 Str in d20 system).

D20 isn't the best system to play superheroes. Even the spells with bonus for abilities scores have been banned in the last editions. No more bear strenght spell. To start from zero with a new franchise would be easier. 

---

Did anybody remember a 80's episode where He-man thrown to the space a castle or a mountain?

Wasn't prince Adam/He-man's mother an astronaut from the Earth? 

MotU is mixing Flash Gordon and Conan the Barbarian, planetary romance, planet&sword and sword&sorcery. Cool, but in a TTRPG you can imagine the headache about the power balance between swords and other melee weapons against ray guns.


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## Tonguez (Aug 10, 2020)

TheIdeaOfGood said:


> I recommend the 2002 reboot. Unfortunately, it was cancelled after 2 seasons but it dialed down the cheese and managed to make Skeletor a somewhat credible threat.




But the cheese is what made MoTU so awesome!!!!

(I agree though that the reboot was a better story and not just an extended advertisement for boys toys. I liked that they characters were parts of real cultures too)


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## Tonguez (Aug 10, 2020)

LuisCarlos17f said:


> Did anybody remember a 80's episode where He-man thrown to the space a castle or a mountain?
> 
> Wasn't prince Adam/He-man's mother an astronaut from the Earth?
> 
> MotU is mixing Flash Gordon and Conan the Barbarian, planetary romance, planet&sword and sword&sorcery. Cool, but in a TTRPG you can imagine the headache about the power balance between swords and other melee weapons against ray guns.




Yes, originally, Queen Marlena is from Earth. She was Marlena Glenn an Austronaut for NASA whose shuttle went off course, Randor saves her and they fall in love. Marlena tells her son Adam about some of Earths heroes which is why He-Man recognises Superman when they meet. Its also possible that Marlena is the one who introduces the Christmas celebration to Eternia.

and there is an episode when another ship from Earth arrives and the two astronauts recognised the famouse Marlena Glenn. They offer to take her back to Earth but she chooses to stay on Eternia - I dont know if the reboot retains her Earth origins however

MoTU is pure Space Opera, and while it was inspired by Conan it has a lineage with John Carter of Mars, Flash Gordon, Krull and most directly Thundarr and Mightor. All of which were popular in the era


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## pemerton (Aug 10, 2020)

stadi said:


> I watched the demo video posted here and I really did not like how the GM had to roll after every player roll. Gameplay must be extremely slow this way.





Aldarc said:


> I believe there is an option in Cortex Prime to use static opposition or a scaling ladder. It's an incredibly flexible toolkit.



Interesting.

As a MHRP/Cortex+ GM I do enjoy assembling my pool - that's my vehicle for (i) getting to roll fistfulls of dice and (ii) narrating to the players what is going on with their opposition and broader context for action.

But I'll admit it isn't super-speedy,.


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## Cam Banks (Aug 11, 2020)

Cortex uses opposed rolls by default, it's one of the things that makes the system work the way it does. It doesn't really slow things down. Most of the time a 5e combat takes much longer than its equivalent in Cortex, because the rolls in Cortex generally cover a lot more or handle a lot more than the many swings and misses of d20+bonus vs AC in 5e. It can certainly look like there's a lot going on, but all we're doing is rolling dice and adding two numbers. Sometimes you fiddle with the dice. The rules are pretty smooth, play-wise.

It's even easier when you have those fancy digital characters and dice to do much of the work for you. 

Cheers,
Cam


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## doctorbadwolf (Aug 11, 2020)

imagineGod said:


> Please, do not laugh, but this was a thing in the 80s. Super cheesy and not channeling Masters of the Universe.
> 
> View attachment 124589



It absolutely channels MoTU!


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## Aaron L (Aug 11, 2020)

Abso-FREAKING-lutely!

My love of Fantasy and Sci-Fi and D&D are all tied in together with my early love of Masters of the Universe.  It is a wonderful Weird Fiction seting, mixing magic and superscience, with laser blasters and dragons and space travel and an evil skull-faced wizard who has a legion of robotic soldiers


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## aramis erak (Aug 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> In the _Leverage_ Cortex+ game, the character has just Attribute and Role, as opposed to the Affiliation, Distinction, and possibly multiple Powers, seen in MHRP.



Actually, it also has distinctions (see p 10 & 33), Assets, and Complications (p 10).

Every released-by-MWP CortexPlus game I've seen¹ used distinctions and at least 2 other ratings as default minima, with gear of some kind often adding a fourth. So, in all flavors, you're rolling at least 3 dice — and one of them is either a d4 or a d8, as those are the options for distinction.

¹: Smallville, Leverage, MHRP, Firefly, and the preview for Dragon Brigade, as well as the hackers guide's core approaches.


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## aramis erak (Aug 11, 2020)

uzirath said:


> My family loves that show too. I was wondering if this RPG would work as well for She-Ra. I didn’t watch the original shows, so I don’t know how similar they are.



They have multiple crossover episodes, similar tone, but She-Ra emphasising female leads.

Unless the guys doing it are seriously retrogressive¹, it should do both equally well.

I'll note that She-Ra's writers sometimes produced more nuanced content than He-Man's.

-=-=-=-=-=-
¹: Cam's one of the more woke-culture-embracing folks I've encountered online, so that's extremely unlikely.


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## Aldarc (Aug 11, 2020)

Sunsword said:


> That is an excellent point, unfortunately, I prefer games with hit points and generally won't run games without them. This could be the exception though.



"Life points" are discussed as an option in the Cortex Prime handbook that went out to backers (p. 43 for those who have the pdf).


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## Tonguez (Aug 11, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> Is that my cue? I saw these images on the Cortex Discord of one of the player characters:
> 
> Affinities/Attributes:
> 
> ...





Having now looked into Cortex, I think I much happier to use Fate Accelerated since it appears to do the same thing with less complexity than the effect die and hitches of Cortex do.

Approaches - Aspects - Stunts - Modes do they same thing as the Cortext structure does especially as the Affinities easily substitute for Approaches.

I also think that Fates four actions and adverb system and simpler dice roles makes for better play in MoTU.


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## Aldarc (Aug 11, 2020)

Again, if you would prefer FAE, then Masters of Umdaar is already available.


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## Tonguez (Aug 11, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> Again, if you would prefer FAE, then Masters of Umdaar is already available.



Yup, just been and downloaded it 
I do like the bioforms, expecially with the generator here and the cliffhangers too


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## Sunsword (Aug 11, 2020)

Aldarc said:


> "Life points" are discussed as an option in the Cortex Prime handbook that went out to backers (p. 43 for those who have the pdf).




Thanks for the heads up.


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## aramis erak (Aug 14, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Having now looked into Cortex, I think I much happier to use Fate Accelerated since it appears to do the same thing with less complexity than the effect die and hitches of Cortex do.
> 
> Approaches - Aspects - Stunts - Modes do they same thing as the Cortext structure does especially as the Affinities easily substitute for Approaches.
> 
> I also think that Fates four actions and adverb system and simpler dice roles makes for better play in MoTU.



Except that FAE doesn't do the same thing.

FAE doesn't have a mechanic for a roll to inherently trigger a compel or a declaration of a new complication for the active party; Cortex does.
FAE does have a mechanic for adding complications - the damage process - and for aspects (in lieu of damage) but it's only when they're the recipient of an action, or before their attack roll.

FAE's result space _on a _*roll *is:
1. Success with margin
2. Success with margin & FP spend(s) to tag aspects
3. Tie 
4. tie with FP spend(s) 
3. Success at other cost _if the GM offers_
4. Simple failure

None of these grant Fate Points, either.

Cortex's result space on a roll: (all 
1a Active succeedswith effect rating  without complications, target fails with complications
1b Active succeeds without complications, target fails without complications
2a Active succeeds with complications, target fails with complications
2b Active succeeds with complications, target fails without complications
3a Active fails without complications, target succeeds with complications
3b Active fails without complications,  target succeeds without complications
4a tie (GM call if allowed on a given roll), no complications for either
4b tie (GM call if allowed on a given roll), Complications for the initiator
4c tie (GM call if allowed on a given roll), complications for the responder
4d tie (GM call if allowed on a given roll), complications for both.

1s rolled do not need to be taken as complications; the players can refuse the PP and the complication... Any player can pay for NPC complications. 

Cortex Plus DOES inherit from Fate the declarative value of Plot Points, and the tagging process, but not the post-roll spends to trigger more values into the pool. Some abilities do allow rerolling the pool, rerolling 1's rolled, and so forth.

Default uses for FP:
tag an aspect
reroll the dice
make a narrative declaration
Make a compel

Default uses for PP
Tag an extra of any particular type of die (first die is free from each category, typically)
Force complications on the GM's opportunities (1's)
Narrative Declaration
Create an asset from something that should be in the setting.

They overlap in what they do, but they don't do the same things.


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## stadi (Aug 14, 2020)

aramis erak said:


> ...
> 
> Cortex's result space on a roll: (all
> 1a Active succeedswith effect rating  without complications, target fails with complications
> ...




Ok, I'll guess I'll play this with Savage Worlds or 5E (I'll still get this for the lore and the pictures). This is exactly what I'm NOT looking for in games. That's why I probably don't play narrative games. I played both Fate and 2d20 once and both were really bad experiences (you could argue whether 2d20 is narrative, but that's not the point).

I don't want a roll tell me that there are complications. That's the GMs role. It should be something that's related to the story, when the story needs it, and not when a roll tells you something happened. You still have the critical fails and critical successes for unplanned happenings.

The more I know of this game / Cortex, the more complicated / clunky it seems. Yes, there are probably options and house rules that you can use, but then you have Savage Worlds (or one's favorite all purpose game) that's better suited.


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## pemerton (Aug 14, 2020)

stadi said:


> I don't want a roll tell me that there are complications. That's the GMs role. It should be something that's related to the story, when the story needs it, and not when a roll tells you something happened. You still have the critical fails and critical successes for unplanned happenings.
> 
> The more I know of this game / Cortex, the more complicated / clunky it seems.



Cortex+ is (in my view) less complicated/clunky than a system like 5e D&D. It is more complicated than a system like Cthulhu Dark or Prince Valiant.

@aramis erak's long chart is basically right for the MHRP/Cortex+ Heroic version I'm familiar with, but doesn't set out the _decision procedure_ for the various outcomes - eg for an active _player_ to succeed with complication, the _GM _has to either have an established SFX at work on the opposition s/he is managing, or to spend a resource that creates that complication. (Eg if you punch a fire giant, you might get a burned hand even though you knocked it down.)

_The story_ can sometimes be used to mean _the fiction_. In Cortex+ everything flows from the fiction.

_The story _can sometimes be used to mean _the pre-esetablished plot_. Cortex+, at least as I have experienced it, doesn't work well with such a thing. The game is heavily scene-based, and the GM has a lot of authority in establishing the starting state of scenes. But the players have a lot of capacity to establish outcomes which (as they cumulate) yield the plot. Eg it is quite feasible in Cortex+ Heroic to start a scene with the PCs all prisoners in their enemy's castle - much moreso than in (say) D&D - but _only if_ the previous scene ended one way rather than another. And the GM doesn't have unilateral control over that ending.

In my (non-LotR) fantasy Cortex+ game, for instance, the PCs all got teleported to the middle of the dungeon, but only because they were confronting a Crypt Thing and I built up 2d12 in the Doom Pool, and so spent it to end the scene with the Crypt Thing teleporting them away (this was how I modelled its ability as found in various versions of D&D - I'm familiar with the old Fiend Folio version). When - after wandering lost for a bit - the PCs met some dark elves (GM-framed scene), one of them was able to trick the elves out of their gold and escape with it to the surface while the other PCs were left to fight there way out. Mechanically, this involved creating complications on a NPC and establishing assets (such as the gold in his possession), and was the result of player of that PC playing his PC as he wanted to within the rules of the system.

I would expect this sort of system to support MotU hijinks pretty well, but it generates a lot of player-side input into the unfolding fiction.


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## aramis erak (Aug 14, 2020)

pemerton said:


> Cortex+ is (in my view) less complicated/clunky than a system like 5e D&D. It is more complicated than a system like Cthulhu Dark or Prince Valiant.
> 
> @aramis erak's long chart is basically right for the MHRP/Cortex+ Heroic version I'm familiar with, but doesn't set out the _decision procedure_ for the various outcomes - eg for an active _player_ to succeed with complication, the _GM _has to either have an established SFX at work on the opposition s/he is managing, or to spend a resource that creates that complication. (Eg if you punch a fire giant, you might get a burned hand even though you knocked it down.)
> 
> _The story_ can sometimes be used to mean _the fiction_. In Cortex+ everything flows from the fiction.



Same in FAE, which is why I didn't mention it - the two games are in similar design spaces and use similar playstyles. The major differences are in the outcome space and dice mechanics, and the base assumptions of the relationship between rolls and risk.

The same kind of thought process that goes into the Cortex Dice pool is very similar to that for selecting aspects to use.

Note also, I was basing my result space more on firefly than mhrp.

There's one other key difference: ranges of ratings vs ranges of results.
Fate -2 to +5 skill, -6 to +15 (counting 3 aspects, 1 personal, 1 scene, 1 target complication)

Cortex Plus - (nd means no die)
Firefly: d4/d8 distinction, d4···d12 attribute, d4···d12 skill, nd/d6 specialty, nd/d6/d8 asset, nd···d12 target complication
Leverage:  d4/d8 distinction, d4···d12 attribute, d4···d12 role, nd/d6 asset, nd···d12 target complication
MHRP: d4/d8 distinction, d4···d12 affiliation, d4-d12 power set, nd···d12 second power, nd/d6···d12 skill, nd/d6 asset, nd···d12 target complication
Smallville: d4···d12 Value, d4···d12 Relationship, d4···d12 asset, nd···d12 target complication.

the dice scale runs nd/d4/d6/d8/d10/d12/>d12. A "≥d12" is essentially a KO.

In all, plot points can be used to tag additionals of any category.
But also, in all cases, the dice math is a result range of 0/2/4···24. Note that 1's are removed before finding the two dice for the pool, so the lowest countable die roll is 2 per die, and it's possible to have no dice left.
The effect (damage or complication inflicted) is d4 to d12 (Firefly and MHRP, it's whatever the biggest {most sides} die remaining is; Smallville, reroll the pool, and the highest rolling die is the size of the effect)
Note that leverage doesn't use effect dice. Firefly uses them a lot except for combat, where the default damage for combat is ≥d12; spend a PP to convert that incoming ≥12 to the effect die.
Complications from 1's can be d4 to ≥d12... 
Leverage, Firefly, MHRP have options for beating the opposed roll by 5+ being a special success. 

Fate is simpler to grasp, simpler to run, and less consistent in results. Due to the opposed rolls, up to 21 stress (I've personally inflicted 16 stress on an NPC as a player once, by picking a mode that they had no defense to). One axis of results: success/failure, but with more steps.

Cortex has more texture even in the simplest flavor (leverage), a wider range of outcomes (3 axis results: intended result, complication for active, complication for resisting). But this comes with extra complexity and longer resolution times. I find Cortex more fun than Fate, but that's a personal level.


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## aramis erak (Aug 14, 2020)

stadi said:


> Ok, I'll guess I'll play this with Savage Worlds or 5E (I'll still get this for the lore and the pictures).



Unlike 2d20, complications in Cortex need not be taken by players; taking them, however, is how you get the majority of your plot points, either way, dice in Cortex Plus return no value on a 1, either way. You get paid for taking the complications, but not punished for not taking them. (Fate, you get punished for rejecting compels, rewarded for taking them)

If you go with SW, you'll have directly compatible ratings.
I'm more likely to run SW settings with Cortex Plus (or Cortex Prime, when it hits shelves), for that reason; all that needs conversion then is the advantages and disadvantages, and adding distinctions.


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## pemerton (Aug 15, 2020)

A couple of footnotes to @aramis erak's posts:

*In MHRP assets can range from d6 up to d12;

*There is another category of dice that can go into the pool, namely, Resources, which can be d6 or d8 (occasionally larger with SFX) which can be thought of as a special and cumulative category of persistent asset generated by spending a plot point at the appropriate time;

*It is possible to have two of the opponent's traits in the pool without having to pay for an extra die: one complication and one stress die - in mechanical terms this is one of the differences between stress (= "damage") and complications (= "debuff");

*When players roll 1s, these don't generate complications directly but rather let the GM pay the player plot points to grow the Doom Pool.

*One thing the GM can spend Doom Pool dice on is to have an opposing effect die take effect even if it is in a losing pool;

*Characters have "limits" (anti-SFX) which in some cases allows the GM to spend a die from the Doom Pool to directly inflict a debuff - the most common of these is the "gear" limit, which allows spending a Doom Pool die to shut down the relevant power (eg Captain America's shield, Gandalf's sword Glamdring, perhaps He-Man's Sword of Power) until the player succeeds in an appropriate action to recover the shut-down power.​
In our play, the main thing the players spend their Plot Points on is not adding extra dice to their pool (although that happens occasionally, as aramis erak and I have explained MHRP pools already tend to have quite a few dice in them) but on adding extra dice to their total once the pool has been rolled.


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## aramis erak (Aug 15, 2020)

pemerton said:


> In our play, the main thing the players spend their Plot Points on is not adding extra dice to their pool (although that happens occasionally, as aramis erak and I have explained MHRP pools already tend to have quite a few dice in them) but on adding extra dice to their total once the pool has been rolled.



that's specific to MHRP, not a general. 

In Firefly, it's a bit more common to spend pp ion triggering special abilities tied to the distinctions or to signature assets... or converting the ≥d12 to the effect die in combats.

Likewise, Firefly and leverage have no equivalent to the doom pool. 

It will be interesting to see if MOTU is difficulty as fixed numerical ratings, difficulty as a 2d pair, difficulty as opposed roll of NPC stats, difficulty as a doom pool...
Most have multiple forms (doom pool and NPC stats for MHRP, NPC Stats or Difficulty dice for Firefly, NPC stats for Leverage)


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## angille (Aug 15, 2020)

lol, I love how the answer to "gosh that's a lot of result types for a single roll" is "here's a wall of text explaining the heaviest version of Cortex so far" — seriously, watch the Legends of Grayskull livestream, find liveplays of Leverage and Firefly (which are the leaner Cortex variants) and see if it gels.

(I totally could have caught myself doing the same thing, so I'm not trying to be overcritical)



aramis erak said:


> It will be interesting to see if MOTU is difficulty as fixed numerical ratings, difficulty as a 2d pair, difficulty as opposed roll of NPC stats, difficulty as a doom pool...
> Most have multiple forms (doom pool and NPC stats for MHRP, NPC Stats or Difficulty dice for Firefly, NPC stats for Leverage)



in the livestream, Cam was rolling dice for opposition, and there was a doom pool (though it was called the "havoc pool"). the streamed game was a very early version, so playtesting might shift things around a bit.


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## aramis erak (Aug 15, 2020)

angille said:


> lol, I love how the answer to "gosh that's a lot of result types for a single roll" is "here's a wall of text explaining the heaviest version of Cortex so far" —



Actually, no, it's not. I was describing Firefly, and noting a few differences of the others. Mechanically, because of the asymmetric nature of PP for players vs Doom Pool, MHR is more complex mechanically. Firefly is the middle; leverage is lighter. What little was released of Dragon Brigade was comparable to firefly.


> in the livestream, Cam was rolling dice for opposition, and there was a doom pool (though it was called the "havoc pool"). the streamed game was a very early version, so playtesting might shift things around a bit.



I doubt it will change away from the Doom Pool- Cam's very fond of it. 

Doom Pool/havoc pool.... it's the right choice IMO for the setting. GM PP works better in less over-the-top...


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## marcoasalazarm (Aug 15, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Fistos second cousin twice removed really?
> 
> Im not familair with the Cortext Prime system (because it looked too complex) anyone want to comment on the ‘fit’ to MoTU.
> 
> I diduse the old D20 MoTU document that was going around a while back...




D20 Masters Of The Universe?

Dude. Link. Please. Now. Prettypleasewithacherryontopplesseplesdepleaseplease...?


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## Tonguez (Aug 15, 2020)

Link D20 Masters Of The Universe


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## LuisCarlos17f (Aug 15, 2020)

I doubt very much an official d20 Master of the Universe but if Hasbro and Mattel merges. I have said some times d20 system isn't ready to play different genres as sci-fi or superheroes with the right power balance. I bet Hasbro would rather to start from zero with its own planetary romance or sword & planet. And TTRPG is totally different when you can use ray guns. Then everybody want to be Rambo but nobody Conan or Tarzan.


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## Aldarc (Aug 17, 2020)

Tonguez said:


> Link D20 Masters Of The Universe



YMMV, but this reads to me like a dark reminder of how far game design has come since the d20 era.


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## aramis erak (Oct 5, 2020)

stadi said:


> Ok, I'll guess I'll play this with Savage Worlds or 5E (I'll still get this for the lore and the pictures). This is exactly what I'm NOT looking for in games. That's why I probably don't play narrative games. I played both Fate and 2d20 once and both were really bad experiences (you could argue whether 2d20 is narrative, but that's not the point).
> 
> I don't want a roll tell me that there are complications. That's the GMs role. It should be something that's related to the story, when the story needs it, and not when a roll tells you something happened. You still have the critical fails and critical successes for unplanned happenings.
> 
> The more I know of this game / Cortex, the more complicated / clunky it seems. Yes, there are probably options and house rules that you can use, but then you have Savage Worlds (or one's favorite all purpose game) that's better suited.



And yet, Savage Worlds has the bennies, which are a mix of gamist and narrativist... you're being paid to play your disads, and for good table behaviour. Not entirely consistent there. Think of it this way: a 1 on your dice in Cortex Plus is EXACTLY the same game outcome as your Opponent rolling a crit in Savage Worlds: Life got complicated. Complications are a form of damage

_Note that Savage Worlds has roughly the same ranges for ratings, so it's not going to be that hard to convert,_
The meaning, however, may be considerably different.


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