# Project Daedalus OOC Thread II



## Agamon (May 4, 2004)

It's PJD OOC 2: Electric Boogaloo!


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## Mimic (May 4, 2004)

Gets down and boogies...


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## Tokiwong (May 4, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> It's PJD OOC 2: Electric Boogaloo!




Get down on it... *dances*


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## Agamon (May 4, 2004)

We also now have a team name poll.  So go vote.


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## Calinon (May 4, 2004)

Um... why is that one part for the Blizzard girl exactly the same as the post you made the day before?


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## Agamon (May 4, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Um... why is that one part for the Blizzard girl exactly the same as the post you made the day before?




D'oh.  Cutting and pasting at it's finest.  I'll get back to your story tomorrow, HH, sorry.


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## Master_Pugs (May 4, 2004)

...you're all ignoring the most important question...


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## Elementor (May 5, 2004)

Master_Pugs said:
			
		

> ...you're all ignoring the most important question...




Is that question, "When will Aggy update the links on his front page to correctly direct people to the new OOC board?"

If so, I would like to know that too....


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## Tokiwong (May 5, 2004)

Who likes pie?


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## Calinon (May 5, 2004)

> _Sense Motive +12 check to gauge how she is feeling, if she looks stressed or what not…_



She _always_ looks stressed


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## Tokiwong (May 5, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> She _always_ looks stressed



 True, just more so then usual... LOL


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## Master_Pugs (May 7, 2004)

Gonna be unable to post for a few days, but I'll be back by the end of the weekend for sure...


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## Agamon (May 8, 2004)

Mimic: What the heck am _I_ doing?  I was thinking the same thing with one of your posts, strangely enough... 

HH: No, I meant orienteering, you guys are going to be getting a compass and map and be asked to find Freedom Plaza given a set of coordinates...I really shouldn't post so late at night. 

Pugs: No prob, that actually helps me a bit.


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## Tokiwong (May 8, 2004)

Having fun  btw


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## Hammerhead (May 9, 2004)

I figured the mistake was intentional, actually. Quite funny.


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## Agamon (May 9, 2004)

I'm happy everyone is amused. 

On another note, I saw Van Helsing last night (good show, btw) and at the sight of the werewolves, I couldn't help but think of Lupa and how frickin' scary she is.


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## Mimic (May 9, 2004)

> I wasn’t impressed, so I thought I’d prove a point that sometimes you need to be serious and not joke around all the time. It…backfired.




Hahahahahahahahahaha...

I saw Van Helsing as well, it was a salute to almost every black and white horror film ever made. I liked it as well, during the Werewolf/Vampire fight I thought that the makers of Underworld could take some pointers from this film


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## Master_Pugs (May 9, 2004)

...I refuse to see that film...  ...I've seen some absolutely disgusting advertisements for it...  I consider it just another pop-culture flash in the pan romp of violence and bad comic relief...  maybe some ...  Just a bunch of eye candy...  I prefer mind candy...  but on another note, I'm back...  and really tired...  aaaaaaand...  I need to ask something, do any of the players mind if Kiro hits on your female characters, perhaps pathetically?  He is 18 after all, I just wanted to make sure noone minds...


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## Shalimar (May 10, 2004)

Rachel wont mind, she wasn't in the right social circles, so she'd be flattered, not that there is anything wrong with her, but the rich don't really mingle with the poor.


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## Elementor (May 10, 2004)

I fly out to Vancouver for work later today and wont be back til Friday.  I then leave for Calgary the following Sunday and wont be back until the next weekend.  

Work has me tied up a bit in knots right now so if I dont post for a bit, feel free to NPC me Aggy.  Obviously for the next 2 weeks I can be NPC'd.


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## Tokiwong (May 10, 2004)

Master_Pugs said:
			
		

> ...I refuse to see that film...  ...I've seen some absolutely disgusting advertisements for it...  I consider it just another pop-culture flash in the pan romp of violence and bad comic relief...  maybe some ...  Just a bunch of eye candy...  I prefer mind candy...  but on another note, I'm back...  and really tired...  aaaaaaand...  I need to ask something, do any of the players mind if Kiro hits on your female characters, perhaps pathetically?  He is 18 after all, I just wanted to make sure noone minds...



 Just don't hit on Misha


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## Calinon (May 10, 2004)

Heh, now _that_ would be some humorous stuff.


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## Shalimar (May 10, 2004)

I think he should hit on everyone, he wouldn't just be a horny teen then, he'd be an equal opportunity horny teeny, and I don't think you can discriminate if you work for the govt. not that that law is suppoused to extend that far, but shrug.


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## Mimic (May 10, 2004)

I dread to think what would happen if Miguel shapeshifted into a woman without Kiro's knowledge...

...Would be damn funny at the very least.


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## Agamon (May 13, 2004)

Sorry, Toki, I’m going overboard introducing plot threads, well expand on that in a later issue.  This issue may wrap up relatively soon, Misha should get to his date.


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## Tokiwong (May 13, 2004)

sounds good to me


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## Agamon (May 15, 2004)

I should probably mention that Deva has left the game.  Sarah will likely stick around as an NPC, but her storyline will be left as is.


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## Calinon (May 17, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> *Tyroc, Mimic, Elementor
> *OOC: Tyrone and Aaron can now have their conversation.



No.  We can't.  Elementor is in Calgary until NEXT Sunday.  That's why I was being vague.


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## Tokiwong (May 17, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> No.  We can't.  Elementor is in Calgary until NEXT Sunday.  That's why I was being vague.



 LOL 

too funny


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## Tokiwong (May 17, 2004)

Misha’s cover will be that of a Washington plain-clothes police officer.  He worked the beat for about six years and got several accolades for his work, but was not too outstanding but enough to get him noticed for the team.  Especially after it came to light that he had elite abilities and many of his traits were beyond the human norm.  

He left the force on good terms to pursue a career with the team, and is team player, a professional and liked.  It is obvious that he was hired for his looks as well, and he has a way with people that makes him a vital PR member for the team at the same time his training makes him a useful backup team leader as needed.


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## Agamon (May 18, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> No.  We can't.  Elementor is in Calgary until NEXT Sunday.  That's why I was being vague.




Heh, that's right.  Damn him for popping his head in here and confusing me.


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## Agamon (May 18, 2004)

Tokiwong said:
			
		

> Misha’s cover will be that of a Washington plain-clothes police officer.  He worked the beat for about six years and got several accolades for his work, but was not too outstanding but enough to get him noticed for the team.  Especially after it came to light that he had elite abilities and many of his traits were beyond the human norm.
> 
> He left the force on good terms to pursue a career with the team, and is team player, a professional and liked.  It is obvious that he was hired for his looks as well, and he has a way with people that makes him a vital PR member for the team at the same time his training makes him a useful backup team leader as needed.




Cool.  That's what I figured more or less.  That's why I had Gwen mention 'cop', she wouldn't know Misha was ACE (or what ACE is, for that matter ).


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## Shalimar (May 18, 2004)

As a note, Rachel's licking and nipping at Daniel's mouth is an actual wolf mannerism.  She is flirtinging a little, but it really is just a thank you.


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## Agamon (May 20, 2004)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> Note to everyone whose games I'm in (which, conveniently enough, all read this thread, therefore saving me the trouble of cutting and pasting):
> 
> My computer access for the next few days or weeks will be unsteady, and I'll try and get on as often as I can, I can't fulfill my usual posting speed of at least once a day. Sorry, the situation is being remedied.






			
				Shalimar said:
			
		

> To everyone who's games I'm in, I'd like to let you know that my monitor set itself on fire, and right now I am typing this on a monitor that I cannot even read its typing.  So until I get a real one, I am SOL.




Well, with Elementor gone til next week, looks like we might take wee bit of a break when this ish is put to bed in a couple days.


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## Tokiwong (May 20, 2004)

Sounds good to me, my game will be on break as well then so es allgood gives me more time to plot and plan


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## Master_Pugs (May 20, 2004)

The evil DM duo takes a few days to sit about...  sip gunpowder tea...  watch the stanley cup finals and maybe spend some time with their friends...  as they plot their WORLD DOMINATION and chuckle insanely...   sorry...   I just get this awesome image of a man with like dark-side veins bulging out of his head, sipping some tea and watching a hockey game...  maybe eating a bowl of cheerios, pausing periodically to give a mad cackle...


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## Agamon (May 21, 2004)

Pugs...you're a strange lad.


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## Elementor (May 21, 2004)

Heya!

I am back.  For how long I have no idea.  But at least I have a long weekend now.


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## Tokiwong (May 22, 2004)

welcome back


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## Calinon (May 22, 2004)

I'm having extreme ISP issues, so posts might be very far between time to time.


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## Master_Pugs (May 22, 2004)

If I'm a strange lad it's the internet that does it...  so many people who will never meet me...  it's so liberating...  I can say anything I want and not many people will even know what my face looks like...

P.S.: It's a long weekend?  What's the occasion?


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## Shalimar (May 22, 2004)

Finally got my new monitor, so I am totally back and ready for fun.  Its amazig how much easier it is to read this text when its on an 19 inch monitor then a 14.  The only problem now is that the monitor is too big for the desk.  I can just tell I am at the start of one of those viscious cycles aren't I?


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## Elementor (May 22, 2004)

Master_Pugs said:
			
		

> P.S.: It's a long weekend?  What's the occasion?




It's Victoria day on Monday.  Otherwise known now-a-days as May long.


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## Agamon (May 23, 2004)

Sorry about the long wait.  I was waiting for everyone to post, so I could tie up the issue, then I had a wedding to go to yesterday.  Anyway, that's the end of that one.  Kiro's ending didn't go as neatly as I'd liked, but I'll state what happened at the beginning of Issue 4.  We'll begin that in a few days, Ihave a busy week ahead, I'm thinking Friday we'll get it going again.  Everybody gets 3 points to spend or keep as they wish.  I'll try and get the website updated soon, too.


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## Tokiwong (May 24, 2004)

yay 3 points hmm... Surprise Strike or Leadership.... hmmm... hmmm I am leaning towards helping the team with Leadership  damn my sense of teamwork...


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## Calinon (May 24, 2004)

I'll probably take leadership once we actually have done something as a team.  But before then, not really a reason to have it.


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## Tokiwong (May 24, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> I'll probably take leadership once we actually have done something as a team.  But before then, not really a reason to have it.




Leadership becaue of background for me there is so much points an stuff I want Misha to b abel to do, just lack of points lol this should help, Taking Leadership Agamon with my 3 points


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## Calinon (May 24, 2004)

Psst.... 2 points.  It's a feat.


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## Tokiwong (May 24, 2004)

bleh lol okay 2 points not sure where I got three from...


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## Hammerhead (May 25, 2004)

Hey, Hammerhead is back for good this time (I hope!). As for my 3 PP, I'd like to buy Obscure +3 as an extra to my Alternate Form. My recent encounter with Black Heaven in Gen:Leg really made this power seem attractive to me.


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## Agamon (May 26, 2004)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> Hey, Hammerhead is back for good this time (I hope!). As for my 3 PP, I'd like to buy Obscure +3 as an extra to my Alternate Form. My recent encounter with Black Heaven in Gen:Leg really made this power seem attractive to me.




Sure, just don't expect to use Selective with it.  That combo just don't sit well with me.


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## Mimic (May 26, 2004)

I should have 8 points so I will take the extra subject for mimic.


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## Calinon (May 27, 2004)

Bank 'em.


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## Tokiwong (May 29, 2004)

Hankering for more Daedelus goodness 

btw I got some clarification, hey Calinon you can use a Hero point to recover from the stun effect of the Stun power... got the word from Steve Kenson... who would have thunk?


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## Calinon (May 29, 2004)

I read his response and I disagree.  He'd allow it, but I wouldn't, and here's why.  

The stun power _requires_ a saving throw to break free because it is a persistant affect, like paralysis or snare.  The stun affect on a hit does not because it is a one round thing.  What you are basically saying by allowing hero point use on the stun power is that you can spend a hero point to _automatically_ make a saving throw.  If you do it for that one power, you'd have to do it for other powers like paralysis.


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## Tokiwong (May 29, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> I read his response and I disagree.  He'd allow it, but I wouldn't, and here's why.
> 
> The stun power _requires_ a saving throw to break free because it is a persistant affect, like paralysis or snare.  The stun affect on a hit does not because it is a one round thing.  What you are basically saying by allowing hero point use on the stun power is that you can spend a hero point to _automatically_ make a saving throw.  If you do it for that one power, you'd have to do it for other powers like paralysis.



 Good reasoning, just not sure which way to go with it...

the rules are not explicitly clear that there is a difference, but I see your point, I like it, not sure why he would make that exemption for that single power


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## Shalimar (May 29, 2004)

It specifically says it in the power that the only difference betwen it and a normal stun condition is that with the stun power, it could potentially last more ten one round, not that it can't be  fixed with a HP.  Think about it.  What other power if you fail the save means that you are helpless  and unable to perform any action, physical, Mental, or what ever for the duration, none of them.  Its too powerful for a 2 point power for it not to have some weakness, Paralysis still allows mental actions, Stun does not allow anything so there has to be a balance, and that balance is the ability to use a HP to cancel it out.  Remember, the book says nothing about not being able to use a HP to cancel it, it in fact states that the only difference between Stun Power and stunned condition is that Stunned condition can last for multiple turns, anything beyond that is simply inferred.  I would point out that a character with the stun power can blow through an opponents HP very quickly and they are unable to use theose HPs for anything else on those turns.


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## Calinon (May 29, 2004)

Paralysis says nothing about not being able to use a hero point to overcome it either, but the power is very similar to Stun.  With stun you can still defend yourself physically, albeit your attackers get some bonuses, while with paralysis you have dexterity and strength of zero and can take mental actions.  Both have penalties, but neither say you can't use a hero point to overcome the effects.  That doesn't mean you should be able to, however.

It's In fact the wording on recovery is nearly the same, only the type of save differs.  No other power has the penalty of being able to be simply countered with a hero point.  Keith's gonna love the debate on his ooc thread


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## Agamon (May 29, 2004)

Erf.  You both make very valid points.  Perhaps the problem lies in the HP expenditure, not the powers.  Maybe using an HP should allow a Fort save to overcome being stunned, DC 15 for a damage stun, and DC 15 plus the rank for the power.  Maybe that's too harsh to weaker heroes, I dunno.

Otherwise, I think I'm with Cal, the Stun power shouldn't be able to be overcome with an HP.

BTW, I was home for all of 15 minutes yesterday, thus no new issue.  And I have another wedding to attend today, but I'll see what I can do about getting her going this afternoon...


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## Shalimar (May 29, 2004)

The power inflicts the stunned status condition, just like fatigue inflicts the Fatigued (and then exhausted, and then unconscious) status condition.  Use of a hero point removes those status conditions because those are two of the stated uses for hero points.


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## Agamon (May 30, 2004)

Then maybe the simplist solution is to allow HP expenditure to eliminate paralysis.  But then there's powers like Mind Control and Possession and Snare and others that take you out of the picutre, too.  Oy, what a can of worms.

When it was stated that Black Heaven's fatigue couldn't be countered by an HP, it made sense to me.  Who would want the Stun power when there are other similar powers that can't be ignored with an HP?  While a power may set a certain condition, it should be a special case that can't be countered by an HP, that just seems intuitive to me.


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## Hammerhead (May 30, 2004)

The simplest solution is not to worry about Stun and Fatigue until it's actually used...I don't think any of the PCs have it.


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## Agamon (May 30, 2004)

Good call, HH.

New issue's begun: Issue #4

Time to go watch the Flames kick some Bolt ice.


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## Tokiwong (May 30, 2004)

yay i am the first posty... I want a prize


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## Agamon (May 30, 2004)

One of those Marvel No-Prizes is in the mail, Toki.  And it's even signed by Stan Lee!

Cal, I assume by when you call him "Wolfman Jack" that you think Silvertip is a shapechanger.  Fair assumption, but incorrect, he doesn't actually turn into a bear, he's just huge and strong like one.  Not your fault, of course, I don't have any info up on him yet.  Hopfully I can get around to that site update tomorrow...


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## Calinon (May 30, 2004)

No, I assume he has a freaking stripe in his hair.  Kinda like Wolfman Jack did in his beard.  I could have called him Skunk-man, but that sounded a bit... rude.


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## Tokiwong (May 30, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> No, I assume he has a freaking stripe in his hair.  Kinda like Wolfman Jack did in his beard.  I could have called him Skunk-man, but that sounded a bit... rude.



 As if Tyroc ever worried about being rude


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## Elementor (May 30, 2004)

Well I am back from all my business trips but now I am off to a funeral for the next 3 days.  I'll be back Tuesday or Wednesday.

Also I will spend my 3 pts on a BAB.  Can you please go over my character sheet linked off the PC page too.  Since I dont have the books I cant be sure but some of the combat stats look too low.


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## Agamon (May 30, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> No, I assume he has a freaking stripe in his hair.  Kinda like Wolfman Jack did in his beard.  I could have called him Skunk-man, but that sounded a bit... rude.




Oh, I get it now.  Well, the white isn't quite a stripe, like Rogue in the comics.  It's more a tuft of hair at the forehead, like Rogue in the movies, but seeing as he has long hair, it does go back over his head a little ways.


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## Calinon (Jun 5, 2004)

Man, a _quiet_ comment overheard by everyone.  Good listen checks!


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## Agamon (Jun 5, 2004)

Heh, nah, that's fair.  I didn't mean quiet so much as trying to keep the conversation private, like a whisper, just more of a soft-spoken response.  You're all walking in a group, it wouldn't be too hard to overhear.  Not to mention that the whole point of what she said was that she didn't want to speak secretively...


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## Agamon (Jun 5, 2004)

Oh, right, before I forget, Pugs is absent because of a lack of internet connection again.  Therefore, Kiro hasn't been really quiet, he just isn't here right now (totally making Eagle's first comment wrong ), but he will be soon.  And hopefully Pugs is back up and running again soon.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 5, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Man, a _quiet_ comment overheard by everyone.  Good listen checks!



 Well Misha gets like a +10 to Listen I think off the top of my head  so I think he could have made it, but yeah I figured that is what you meant Agamon


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## Tokiwong (Jun 7, 2004)

Good ruling Agamon on the Detect Truth makes sense to me, I mean I spent alot of points to make Misha good at that kind of stuff  not to say I would be bitter or anything lol


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## Agamon (Jun 15, 2004)

Alright, the mall...nothing _ever_ happens at the mall...


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## Tokiwong (Jun 15, 2004)

I was thinking the same thing...


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## Shalimar (Jun 15, 2004)

You never know, I mean, AEGIS isn't Legacy.  It could be nice to have nothing happen, sometimes a shopping spree is just a shopping spree.  Rachel and Miguel could certainly go for new clothes, and Rachel was looking forward to modeling the outfits everyone picks out for her.


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## Mimic (Jun 15, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Rachel and Miguel could certainly go for new clothes




Hey, don't be dissing Miguel's clothing... even if it is true


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## Calinon (Jun 15, 2004)

Ah the mall... the favorite place for devious GM's to host their first team arse whoopin...


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## Tokiwong (Jun 15, 2004)

all you need is well-tailored clothes, clothing bodyarmor, and a trenchcoat... oh yeah and a nice big gun  that is fashion, Misha styley


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## Agamon (Jun 18, 2004)

Yeah, no butt-whoopins at the mall this time, the BBG is in the subtle stage at this point of the game, and anything else would have been very contrived.  But don't worry, butt-whoopin a-plenty to come...

The game's website (link in my sig), which used to be hosted by the evil and thoroughly nasty Angelfire, is now much more accessable.  No updates as of yet, but hopefuly I can do something this weekend.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 18, 2004)

and here I wanted to die!


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## Tokiwong (Jun 19, 2004)

see you have Misha all wrong Hammerhead, he does not want to kill everyone... just those that annoy him


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## Mimic (Jun 19, 2004)

Tokiwong said:
			
		

> see you have Misha all wrong Hammerhead, he does not want to kill everyone... just those that annoy him




Isn't that everyone?


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## Tokiwong (Jun 20, 2004)

Well he does not dislike Screaming Eagle  and so far Jennifer seems cool... hmm... Elementor is okay... because he is just a kid.  The rest...


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## Shalimar (Jun 20, 2004)

Is Rachel really that bad


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## Tokiwong (Jun 20, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Is Rachel really that bad



 Most everyone else is annoying on some level to Misha... but then again he has pretty high expectations... as was seen with his partner from ACE he is a lone wolf by nature, because most people don't measure up


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## Agamon (Jun 20, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Is Rachel really that bad




Well, she does thank people by nibbling on their lips...you're right, she's not so bad after all...


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## Tokiwong (Jun 20, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> Well, she does thank people by nibbling on their lips...you're right, she's not so bad after all...



 That is just wierd on many different levels  as cool as it may seem, anyways mindless post just hit 5001


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## Tokiwong (Jun 22, 2004)

Any result from the Diplomacy check, yeah Misha uses alot of skills its his only real gimmick, i.e. the Batman of Aegis


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## Agamon (Jun 22, 2004)

The diplomacy check witht the crowd?  Well, I guess you'll have to wait and see what the media says about Misha.  Reporters aren't going to get too emotional over a press conference speech.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 22, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> The diplomacy check witht the crowd?  Well, I guess you'll have to wait and see what the media says about Misha.  Reporters aren't going to get too emotional over a press conference speech.



 No problem...

LOL nothing about his rendezvous with Screaming Eagle... lol newscasters these days why in my day there was no place they would not hide!


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## Mimic (Jun 23, 2004)

> Sandstone, the sand of her skin shifting about ever so slightly as she sits, simply glares at the monitor, her gaze intensifying when the camera pans over Miguel.




Looks like I have a fan...

I had forgotten about that little incident


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## Calinon (Jun 24, 2004)

Ah yes, the 69 caddy... everyone into the boat!


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## Tokiwong (Jun 24, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Ah yes, the 69 caddy... everyone into the boat!



 I call shotgun!


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## Calinon (Jun 24, 2004)

We can probably fit Misha's car in the trunk...


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 24, 2004)

Fellow PbPers,

I hate to interrupt the talk but there are no objections I would like to break up your previous thread. (link) Into two sections of about 500 posts each.  

Thanks,
BS
PbP Moderator


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## Agamon (Jun 25, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Fellow PbPers,
> 
> I hate to interrupt the talk but there are no objections I would like to break up your previous thread. (link) Into two sections of about 500 posts each.
> 
> ...




No problemo.


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## Agamon (Jun 25, 2004)

Aha, it appears we've one-uped EPIC's two Monica's, with two Angela's and two Jennifer's.  Hope that's not too confusing...  :\


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## Calinon (Jun 25, 2004)

Heh, there's one Jennifer, an Angela, Angie and Angel.  Now, hopefully _they_ don't get confused.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 25, 2004)

thankfully only one Misha


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## Agamon (Jun 25, 2004)

Tokiwong said:
			
		

> thankfully only one Misha




Well, for now, anyway...


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## Tokiwong (Jun 28, 2004)

as an aside, I will be out of touch from probably the 6th of July till about the 12th or 14th... hazy dates... I will be heading stateside from my desert vacation


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## Agamon (Jun 29, 2004)

no prob, thanks for the heads up


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## Tokiwong (Jun 29, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> no prob, thanks for the heads up



 If anything crazy happens, Misha will observe from afar use Assessment to determine here thy are weakest on saves, and then try to exploit it.  He will make liberal use of Intimidate and Taunt.  

As fr as the BBQ he will probably observe and speak when spoken to, and if Jennifer shows up he will definitely talk to her if she is in the mood


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## Agamon (Jul 2, 2004)

Oh, wow, seen Spider-Man 2 today.  Absolutely amazing (pun intended).  I tell ya, Sam Raimi is to Spider-Man what Peter Jackson was to Lord of the Rings.  I imagine it's really good just on the level of a super-hero action movie, but if you're a big Spidey fan like I was as a kid, watching it come alive so perfectly like that is awe-inducing.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 2, 2004)

I hate you people...


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## Agamon (Jul 2, 2004)

Whoops, didn't mean to taunt you like that, Toki.    But, hey, you're back in few days, right?  Make sure you check it out.


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## Mimic (Jul 2, 2004)

The second was better then the first, Doc Ock was amazing...


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## Elementor (Jul 3, 2004)

Spidey 2 is the best Superhero movie to date by any company.  And historically I am a DC fan not Marvel.


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## Agamon (Jul 3, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> _I assume the Aerodyne is coming to us, rather than the likely long drive back to Freedom Plaza?  If not, well, the drive should be fun._




Hey, good idea, for some reason, that didn't cross my mind.


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## Calinon (Jul 3, 2004)

I could reach Baltimore faster with super-flight or super-running than the 20 minutes it's about to take, right?

Also, once I use extra effort to get that, would it be possible to share that with another person, or other people?

I'm thinking extra effort for super-flight, then extra effort for affect others.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 4, 2004)

Happy 4th of July from Iraq!


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## Calinon (Jul 4, 2004)

Agamon, where's the website gone now?

Bah, nm, memlane was down.


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## Calinon (Jul 4, 2004)

Tokiwong said:
			
		

> Happy 4th of July from Iraq!



So do you get any celebration over there?  A kegger with fireworks?


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## Agamon (Jul 4, 2004)

I'm guessing probably no fireworks...


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## Mimic (Jul 5, 2004)

Well the kegger is whats important...


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## Calinon (Jul 5, 2004)

How are you treating super flight?  Is it just a trick where we get to move our full movement, or are you using the rounds equal to con, or half speed for an hour, rule, and then we have to make checks?  It's important, since at full speed, moving at Aaron's speed, we'd make it there in about 12 minutes; otherwise, it's nearly the same speed.

If I recall, you said no using "super" movement in combat, right?

This is something I am considering using 2 points on as a stunt, so how you are going to treat it is important.


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## Shalimar (Jul 5, 2004)

There is something that  I am considering doing in the upcoming fight with extra effort (and potentially buying as a power stunt), I would just like to know if its ok first.

Cripple:  Use extra effort to get slow as a powerstunt to her attack powers which are at +7, make it range touch and duration continuous (net change of 0pp a rank) to represent that she is specifically biting and clawing at the legs to cripple and slow her target, and the continuous would represent that while it is long lasting, its not permanent.


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## Calinon (Jul 5, 2004)

Continuous effects last until you will them to stop, but what you describe is more a permanent affect.  It would take time to heal.  That'd be slow (stunt), range touch (flaw) with permanent (two extra's).

Not sure, just seems that for a raking, biting, slashing, attack, continous would be impossible to do.  Probably would change WILL to FORT for saves too, but sounds like a good ability for you for sure, regardless of cost.


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## Shalimar (Jul 5, 2004)

I don't see that its permanent, if it was permanent, if she did it once, for the rest of the guy's life, he would only ever be able to take 1 action a round.  At continuous, I was thinking the ending of the power wouldn't be when she willed it (because that doesn't fit the SFX, there would be no willing it to end), but when Agamon willed it, or over time as it healed.  The ability for it to heal at all means it isn't permanent.  Besides, whether its continuous or not, she wouldn't will it to stop regardless so its the same net effect.


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## Calinon (Jul 5, 2004)

Permanent effects can also be healed.  Permanent simply means that whether you want it or not, you can't remove the effect.  It would have to heal naturally, or supernaturally somehow.

Me blasting a guy and breaking his leg is a permanent effect, but he'll walk again eventually.  That's like ripping at a guy's tendons and whatnot; he gets disabled, but he can heal, or be healed. I can slow too.  If I got continuous and slowed someone, he'd be stuck that way, but if I want him to be free of it, so the cops can drag him off or something, I could cancel the power out.  There are quite a few reasons to want to cancel a power out, not just for slow, and the ability to do so is the difference between continuous and permanent.

Anyway, just my buck fifty on it.  Aggy will work with you regardless to work out the details of how you can get it.


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## Calinon (Jul 5, 2004)

Hey, you could consider using snare instead of slow, representing him not being able to move, something he gets a save for each round to recover.  That might be easier.


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## Shalimar (Jul 5, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> There are quite a few reasons to want to cancel a power out, not just for slow, and the ability to do so is the difference between continuous and permanent.



In which case Permanent is a flaw and not an extra, to do it as you are suggesting, as permanent, it would be


Extra [Duration]: Continuous +1pp a Rank
Flaw [Range]: Touch -1pp a Rank
Flaw [Duration]: Permanent (cannot end effect) -1pp a Rank

it would end up being 1pp a rank, I was just gonna leave out the Duration permanent flaw since there was no reason or need for the extra points on it.  In this case, the SFX prevent her from removing it which would qualify it as the permanent flaw, it just didn't really matter since there was no need to gain any extra points from giving it the flaw, I was just going to play it as having the flaw regardless since the SFX lend itself to that.


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## Calinon (Jul 5, 2004)

Hey yeah, I forgot permanent was a flaw.  Duh me!  I don't think you need the continuous extra even if you take permanent.  It's just a flawed stunt basically... wouldn't that cost just 1PP?


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## Shalimar (Jul 5, 2004)

Actually, only continuous powers can be made permanent as a flaw, Steve Kenson flip flopped again. I am looking forward to the 2 nd edition of MnM hitting stands within the next week, it has all the updated errata, including fixes to the errata made in January, so I no longer will have inked out margins.

EDIT: Meh, regardless of whether or not I need to take it to continuous before hand, it still costs only 1pp a rank meaning I could take an additional extra, but not a biggie either way.

EDIT: EDIT: actually throw on a damage aspect and it comes out even and that does make sense, it would actually hurt him when he is crippled, so:

Slow
extra: Damage Save
extra: Continuous
flaw: Touch Range
flaw: Permanent


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## Shalimar (Jul 5, 2004)

Just so everyone knows, Rachel's personality is radically different depending on her form.  I can break it down to make it easier if that helps:

Wolf> energetic, over-grown puppy type thing, always up for fun, and into exploring everything with her nose just for kicks and to 'learn' her new home

Human> nervous when in new surroundings, once she gets to know people and places she acts more like her wolf form, but she alwas has some inhibitions, her wolf form doesn't really have any

Werewolf> Agressive and super-confident, here were-form is super strong, and she knows it, she is headstrong to a fault, and wont back down to anything she considers herself dominant to.  She is very plain spoken, she cals it like she sees it and doesn't care who it upsets.


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## Mimic (Jul 5, 2004)

Can't you just feel the love???


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## Calinon (Jul 5, 2004)

Heh, I kinda guessed all that from Rachel's various responses.

Feel the love indeed.   I have no idea where the "trust" comes from for Misha.


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## Shalimar (Jul 5, 2004)

Mostly from the super-charisma, that and Misha didn't just make up peoples powers.  As far as the way he talks, Rachel was raised by nuns, I mean you know what catholic school nuns are like, unless its perfect its a sin and a smack across the mouth.  Good God do I hate nuns.


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## Elementor (Jul 6, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Mostly from the super-charisma, that and Misha didn't just make up peoples powers.  As far as the way he talks, Rachel was raised by nuns, I mean you know what catholic school nuns are like, unless its perfect its a sin and a smack across the mouth.  Good God do I hate nuns.




Except that everything Misha has done so far has been to seperate himself from the group.  Going off solo all the time.  Being incredibly secretive about himself but expecting lots from others.

Keith should take the Super CHA and Leadership away from him and let him spend the points a different way.  Toki plays just fine, but definately not for this character type.  He is playing a Wolverine type attitude in a character that is designed to be more like Reed Richards.

Super CHA can be a negative instead of a positive as well.  Making people pay closer attention to you.  If you are an Ass you are now a Super Ass.  If you project Leadership you are a Super Leader.  So far aside from his historical chats with Aaron, all that has been seen is the Super Ass from these eyes.

Seriously though Shalimar, your character is the one stuck meleeing this thing.  If you arent trusting the rest of us to keep you alive and take this thing down, that is pretty suicidal.  Knowing nothing about Misha and taking him into a live fire combat is similarly insane.  If Tyroc let him come with us without knowing what Misha could do, would and should get Ty fired as leader.  Any government in the world would make that happen.  For all we know, if Misha gets punched he could explode and kill the rest of us.  Would explain his secrecy.  If I were leader (and an adult) he wouldnt even be allowed on the plane.


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## Shalimar (Jul 6, 2004)

> Keith should take the Super CHA and Leadership away from him and let him spend the points a different way. Toki plays just fine, but definately not for this character type. He is playing a Wolverine type attitude in a character that is designed to be more like Reed Richards



Just because it doesn't fit what your concept of Super-Charisma is does not make it wrong.  He is charming when he wants to be, incredibly charming, he talked down that kid in the mall.  Just because he isn't always actively using his charisma doesn't mean he should not have it, thats like saying because Rachel is super-strong, she should always be carrying something heavy.  Misha is just a private person, look at his background and you can see why.

I like the way he is doing it, I really like the character, he is based on the character Amone from Witch Hunter Robin, and he is nailing him perfectly.  To Rachel, Misha is acting like a professional, he is acting with dignity, he isn't a loud mouth, when he doesn't have anything vital to say, he doesn't say it.  And finally, the super-charisma itself, all of it together.  Just because he isn't pulling diplomacy checks against the rest of us with his super-charisma is no reason to just ignore it.



> Super CHA can be a negative instead of a positive as well.



No, it can't. If something is paid for then it is paid for, people ignoring the Charisma is like people deciding to ignore someone's super-strength when the super strong person is punching them, you just cannot do it.


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## Calinon (Jul 6, 2004)

The only arguement I have there is that the diplomacy and fame of Tyroc gets ignored just fine.  Misha and Tyrone are very similar in charismatic builds, only Tyoc's is natural, Misha's is supernatural.

Is Tyroc grating on you?  Did you consider his natural charisma, fame or diplomatic ability?  Are any of his points not valid?  Or is it just you decided not to like him.  Not that I mind; that's everyone's perogative.  Everyone can react how they like to him, that's why there are no rolls between PC's.  Just like how people react to Misha how they like.  And that's cool with me.

Tyrone isn't secretive, quite the opposite, so secrecy about something vital for a team to know is a problem for him.  Misha wanders off, always has that annoying, superior smile, hasn't told us about his powers, had a really weak background to tell us and only turns on his charm when it suits him.  To Tyrone, it creates a false character.  If I were an NPC, or if he had played it differently even, I probably would never react poorly, though I likely would have asked about his powers.

It's not a matter of not liking the character, it's a matter of Tyrone not trusting Misha and the newcomers like he does the folks he's used to.  That and I sometimes don't grasp how someone interprets another character in such a diametrically opposite way than I see him.  That's why I asked.


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## Agamon (Jul 6, 2004)

Hoo boy, you people have been busy, yes?

Okay, Shal, you want the Slow apsect as a stunt and not an extra, right?  That means no damage will be caused when Rachel hits with that attack.  If you take it as an extra, you can cause damage and try to do the cripple thing.  You can't allow a damage save for an extra, that's a bit beyond what an extra can do.  Otherwise, I agree with the rest if what you concluded.

Misha is fine as is.  He's not like Wolverine or Reed Richards, as has been stated a few times now, he's like Batman.  Secretive, loner, not a great team player.  But wouldn't you say Batman is charismatic?  There are different kinds of charisma, as Shal said.  Both Superman and Batman are charismatic, in two totally seperate ways.  And actually, Misha has two faces, one is outgoing Mr. Popular that he shows the public, the other is the reserved, secretive private persona.  I'd say it fits perfectly.


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## Agamon (Jul 6, 2004)

Oh, right and Super-Flight.  Well, for one, Cumulus flies by turning into a cloud, so no S-F for her.  It's stretching it, concept-wise, for Aaron to be able to do it (in Fire form; Air form, I can't see it), in my opinion.

And yes, I use the endurance checks for long-distance travel.  And yes, no Super movement during combat, unless you want to buy it as an extra.  The whole reson it's a stunt is because it's really just a sfx means of getting from point A to point B quickly.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 6, 2004)

Aggy hit the nail on the head, Super Charisma is fitting for Misha because Batman is charismatic and he is the loner of the team... I use the stats for my detective skills and to manipulat people... besides the way you see Misha is the way he was meant to be seen


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## Shalimar (Jul 6, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> Hoo boy, you people have been busy, yes?
> 
> Okay, Shal, you want the Slow apsect as a stunt and not an extra, right? That means no damage will be caused when Rachel hits with that attack. If you take it as an extra, you can cause damage and try to do the cripple thing. You can't allow a damage save for an extra, that's a bit beyond what an extra can do. Otherwise, I agree with the rest if what you concluded.



By the rules, you could add a damage save at the cost of 1pp/rank, its the same thing as adding dazzle to an energy blast as an extra, its just the other way around. But the real purpouse of it is the Slow anyway, since if the thing wasn't tough enough to shrug off a normal hit she wouldn't be hamstringing it in the first place, so it doesn't much matter either way since the damage would be ineffective either way.

As far as Tyroc and his Charisma, I consider Super-Charisma as being more dominant then regular Charisma. Tyrone's Charisma bonus is +4, Misha's is +9, so even If I did not consider Super-Charisma more important, his Charisma bonus is twice yours and then some. If I took your Fame into account, I'd take his Attractive into account as well.

I'll quote the benchmark system I use:

Misha


*Superhuman (+9 to +10)​

​*​​So magnetically charismatic, you may become a household name and could inspire urban or galactic myths & legends in your own lifetime. Your presence can turn the heads of legendary figures. Your bearing can instil dread or incredible admiration in people.​ 
Tyrone​

*[font=TwCenMT,Bold]Gifted (+3 to +4)​

​*​​[/font]A strong forceful personality. You hold the attention of those around you. Typically, charismatic actors, pop stars and other public figures are in this range. Your gaze can be quite unsettling – or charming. People are certainly drawn to you. You have a definite air of authority about you.​


Now, while Tyrone's Charisma is pretty good, it just falls flat on its face around Misha​


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## Shalimar (Jul 6, 2004)

Rachel loathes slang, she grew up in a place where speaking anything but proper English will get you smacked. She was repeatedly told slang shows disrespect to the people you are speaking it to. Now as an adult, this is her first Major job, they are a Government organization, they need to look professional, but someone placed as their spokesman speaks slang constantly, and that reflects on all of them. Speaking slang is not professional in the slightest, so it is sort of mindboggling to Rachel how Tyrone can brag about heading a department in a major corporation. That is what started Tyrone off on the wrong foot with her, the slang, thats what she means about professionalism, every little thing builds up into an image, and she is not happy about having the team image linked to slang and un-professionalism.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 6, 2004)

I just like pie


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## Agamon (Jul 6, 2004)

Like I told Mimic a month or so ago when the PCs all met, I figured there'd be a rift between the old PCs and new PCs, and especially Tyrone and Misha.  This is kewl, glad you guys didn't disappoint


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## Calinon (Jul 6, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Now, while Tyrone's Charisma is pretty good, it just falls flat on its face around Misha



Yup, but it's not just charisma, but how you use it.  I've invested enough skill points to only be marginally behind him in the areas of diplomacy and such.  He's definitely the 'natural' about it though.  

And I dislike pie, becuase it is friggin' hard to get sugar free pie.


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## Shalimar (Jul 6, 2004)

Unless someone is trying to specifically convince someone of something, I just tend to go on straight Charisma bonus, but even so, he is still better at diplomacy, I'd also like to say that while I like Tyrone, his personality just grates on Rachel, its not personal or anything, he just is not gonna jive with the upbringing she has, so he most likely has a penalty of like -2 to her, but thats not to say she cannot be convinced of stuff by him, he just needs to approach it right.


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## Mimic (Jul 6, 2004)

But wouldn't the wolf nature of Rachel's personality be pretty boggled by Misha. 

I mean in her eyes he should be the Alpha and Tyrone the Beta. But he isn't actively trying to take the position, which would confuse the heck out of her, leading her to believe he is a lone wolf, which is not a good thing to other wolves.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 6, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Yup, but it's not just charisma, but how you use it.  I've invested enough skill points to only be marginally behind him in the areas of diplomacy and such.  He's definitely the 'natural' about it though.
> 
> And I dislike pie, becuase it is friggin' hard to get sugar free pie.



 Misha is a natural... but in the same James Bond or Batman are naturals... cool under fire... smooth, but often loners by nature... he could be a leader but I never intended for him to be a leader in the Superman kind of sense... that is what Tyroc is, he leads by example... Misha can learn to respect that... 

Misha isn't a role model... he has the high charisma because he can get people to trust him, or awe them, or scare them, he can read people, and he can manipulate people.  I picked Leadership feat because he has training in small squad tactics, and can effectively help people to do their best... it works well with his Assessment feat... he can find weakness and help the team exploit it


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## Hammerhead (Jul 6, 2004)

Hope everyone has had a happy 4th of July...Independence Day for us Americans...and I guess it's a weekend for the Canadians up north, so that has to count for something. 

Alternatively, for the Cripple thing, you could make it a Power Stunt that's essentially Strike +4 (Extra: Slow). It still does damage, albeit not as much as a straight attack at a more vital area.

Interestingly, Jennifer (and me personally as well) are far more drawn to Misha in this argument than Tyrone...an argument essentially started by Tyrone telling Misha to stay in the helicopter, since he was never very forthcoming about his powers. 

There is a definite split in the party between the BioGen escapees and the new Aegis members, similar to the brief split between Kelly Mitchell and the rest of Legacy, who shared many common experiences. Tyrone seems to be the leader of one faction, and enjoys the backing of the BioGen escapees, while Misha was chosen as the representative of the new members. Jennifer's recent note about Tyrone only choosing BioGen escapees and AF members is particularily true. While Tyrone may not trust Jennifer, Misha, or Rachel, he should still try and include one of them, to gain that trust.

Tyrone, through his generosity at the mall, offering rides to people in his Caddy, hosting the barbeque, and stereotypical New Yorker attitude, has also probably annoyed Jennifer and Misha, two independent-minded characters. He's acting like a patron. Some people don't want help in solving their problems.

I don't pretend to understand Rachel the wolf woman. 

This certainly is an interesting argument. Heck, I don't think Gen:Leg has ever had an interparty conflict this big


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## Tokiwong (Jul 6, 2004)

This is quite the issue but one that I find very interesting... and obiviously everyone else does as well


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## Calinon (Jul 6, 2004)

Actually, Tyroc was only considering people who could fly and potentially gain super flight for the possible go ahead group.  Who it was, was just coincidental.


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## Mimic (Jul 6, 2004)

As soon as I saw Misha, I figured him and Tyrone would be bumping egos, just didn't think it would be so soon.


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## Shalimar (Jul 9, 2004)

I was about to post this, but I caught myself first, Rachel isn't all that forethougty in Beast mode, but they still are valid points, and heck, I want to know what you all think OOC what should happen to this guy.



> Rachel sighs at that, not even bothering to shake her head, it was pretty obvious what she thought.  "If someone is in danger I am not going to fool around playing keep away.  If this guy was just some base-line with a gun, he'd already be in a bodybag, but cause he's an elite, we have to let him trash a city, possibly killing people, just so we can be humane about it.  Are you gonne be the one who is out your family if he knocks over a building with people still in it?  Are you going to end up in an orphanage or be bankrupt when he destroys your families store?"  she asks sarcastically.
> 
> "Cops have guns for a reason, to use when its neccessary.  When some guy draws on a cop, you better believe the cop is going to shoot him, looking at all the damage he's caused can you tell me his fists are less dangerous then bullets?"


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## Agamon (Jul 9, 2004)

Well, I'll let you guys ponder that for a bit.  I'm a bit busy right now, and I don't expect another post from me until Saturday evening.  Until then, get ready to rumble!


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## Tokiwong (Jul 10, 2004)

saw Spiderman 2... good flick.. course I fell asleep but being up for three days will do that to you... but I saw MOST of the movie LOL... good to be home!


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## Agamon (Jul 10, 2004)

Welcome back, Toki!


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## Calinon (Jul 10, 2004)

Tokiwong said:
			
		

> stop being an overprotective ass



It has vanished, before my very eyes!


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## Tokiwong (Jul 10, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> It has vanished, before my very eyes!



 LOL it just didn't mesh with my vision of Misha he rarely gets ruffled enough to say something like that... so I had to edit LOL


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## Mimic (Jul 13, 2004)

Did Miguel mimic both of them? (Them being Tyrone and Sarah)


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## Agamon (Jul 14, 2004)

Sorry, forgot about that. Sarah gave Miguel a look that said she wasn't big on the idea, but said it would be okay, and yeah, he has both of their powers.


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## Agamon (Jul 16, 2004)

Apologies for the lack of update.  I've spent near zero time in front of a computer the past few days.  There will be a post tomorrow evening.


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## Calinon (Jul 18, 2004)

_



Leadership once more. Taunt +10 including leadership to get the elite to come to Misha.

Click to expand...


_
Unless I'm mistaken here, you don't get a bonus for your own leadership feat. Kind of hard to lead yourself, so to speak.  People not following the direction of the leader wouldn't either, at least imo.


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## Agamon (Jul 18, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Unless I'm mistaken here, you don't get a bonus for your own leadership feat. Kind of hard to lead yourself, so to speak.  People not following the direction of the leader wouldn't either, at least imo.




It says, "everyone on your side".  That would include the leader, who is taking his own tactics into account.  You do however, need to have someone to lead to use it, so you can't use it when by yourself.  I agree with your last statement, though.  If you don't follow the leader, you're essentially choosing to not be lead, an therefore get no one's bonus.


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## Calinon (Jul 18, 2004)

Oh, ok, I was thinking more like Bless in D&D, where everyone on your side gets the bonus, just not you.  Well, that's how I treat it in EPIC anyway.


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## Agamon (Jul 19, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Oh, ok, I was thinking more like Bless in D&D, where everyone on your side gets the bonus, just not you.  Well, that's how I treat it in EPIC anyway.




Okay.  FYI, Bless works on the caster, too.


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## Calinon (Jul 19, 2004)

Really?  Every single time I cast it, I haven't been allowed to use the bonus.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 19, 2004)

I can't make him lose his DEx bonus for everyone just for Misha, Shalimar as written, the target loses their dex bonus versus our next attack, you being, the person using taunt, so I would assume that only Misha could benefit... sorry, yeah I thought about that too, but a no-go


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## Shalimar (Jul 19, 2004)

Ah well, after this charging attack, I'll just have to start using my startle feat, +12 to intimidate so hopefully it works a few times and I can pile on the lethal suprise strike damage.  Hopefully a few +17L attacks should give him enough penalties on all his rolls that the others should be able to overpower his saves if not flat out kill him.


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## Calinon (Jul 19, 2004)

+13L I think, unless you are also power attacking.  Surprise strike ads +1/2 levels.


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## Shalimar (Jul 19, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> +13L I think, unless you are also power attacking. Surprise strike ads +1/2 levels.



Yup, the plan is to power attack, maximum power attack, if I do startle the guy, he loses dax, plus he is pretty fricken big.  We need power more then finesse here I am thinking.


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## Calinon (Jul 20, 2004)

Aha, I get it.  So it'd be +13, +2 power attack and +2 ramming on the first hit.  Cool.


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## Shalimar (Jul 20, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Aha, I get it. So it'd be +13, +2 power attack and +2 ramming on the first hit. Cool.



The first hit is
8 (Super Strength + Strength)
2 (Ramming)
5 (Power Attack 5)
+15 is the total

After the first hit, I am going to use startle then Attack each round
(assuming Success on Startle)
8(Super Strength + Strength)
5(Power Attack)
4 (surprise strike)
+17 is the total


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## Calinon (Jul 20, 2004)

Power attack is restricted to your BAB, maximum. So in your case +2, correct?

Edit:  Yeah it is restricted to your BAB in bonus, according to the feat.

So it would be 9L/S +2 (power attack max) +2 ramming for +13.  With Startle and without ramming, you'd get up to +15.  Still nothing to sneeze at that's for sure.


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## Shalimar (Jul 20, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Power attack is restricted to your BAB, maximum. So in your case +2, correct?
> 
> Edit: Yeah it is restricted to your BAB in bonus, according to the feat.
> 
> So it would be 9L/S +2 (power attack max) +2 ramming for +13. With Startle and without ramming, you'd get up to +15. Still nothing to sneeze at that's for sure.



Your right, not that it matters at this point.  I sort of figured she would be a bit harder to hit with the net, the size difference, etc, but I guess the truck made his attack an area attack?  Anyone else notice that all of the guy's saves are superhuman, his will save is his weakest save, and he has a +11 in it minimum (assuming he rolled a 20 on the willsave).  Anyone have a plan?


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## Calinon (Jul 20, 2004)

Yeah, I plan on not getting in melee range 

He did suffer a -2 to hit when entangled.  That didn't help though.

I have a good idea how this guy is built.  He's got 13 super strength, 20 in at least strength and con.  That results in a DC33 damage save if you get hit.

If he has protection equal to his super strength, none of us can hope to really hurt him with ranged damage attacks, and you'd have to go all out just to hope to hurt him with any physical melee attack.

I'm guessing he also has +13 in amazing saves for will, fort and reflex.  If he doesn't have protection, he'll have that in damage saves too.  The 31 will save leads to this and the 40 fort save would result from +13 AS-Fort, +5 Con and greater fortitude, and a natural 20.  So basically, he's impervious to most of us, unless he rolls 5 or lower, assuming he has no will/reflex bonus for high stats.  We can't beat his fort save no matter what, since 21 would be his minimum roll, and 20 would be the best we could achieve.  18 has been the lowest save he's gotten so far; that would probably be a 3 on the dice.

Basically, he's pretty much impervious to anything we can do.


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## Shalimar (Jul 20, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Basically, he's pretty much impervious to anything we can do.



That was my read on it too.  The fact that I went straight from fine and dandy to dying skipping disabled is pretty nasty, even if I still was able to use a heropoint, I most likely would have only gotten an 18 instead of a 17.  With the lethality rules as they seem to be, anone else would be dead.

Can Ty order up a cruise missile?  I am being entirely serious on the missiles.


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## Agamon (Jul 20, 2004)

Interesting.  A fair assessment, though I wouldn't go as far as to say he's impervious (though I can say that, knowing the actual numbers).  18 is the lowest save _you've seen_, I haven't shown any of the numbers from NPC actions, and Neutron's got him in a Snare twice.  I really tried to convey the fact that this guy is major league leading up to the fight so you wouldn't be caught unawares.

I feel your frustration, though, having 'fought' guys like Strength and Mole, myself...


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## Calinon (Jul 20, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> That was my read on it too. The fact that I went straight from fine and dandy to dying skipping disabled is pretty nasty, even if I still was able to use a heropoint, I most likely would have only gotten an 18 instead of a 17. With the lethality rules as they seem to be, anone else would be dead.
> 
> Can Ty order up a cruise missile? I am being entirely serious on the missiles.



Heh, I considered super speeding to the harbor and seeing if there were any naval vessels there and ordering a bomb to go


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## Agamon (Jul 21, 2004)

Couple things, Toki.  Total defense can only be used in combination with movement, nothing else.  I'll allow fighting defensively, but instead of the -4 to hit, it'll be off the Taunt check.

Also, Rachel has already fallen back (and she can't get up).


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## Tokiwong (Jul 21, 2004)

bleh you got me Agamon... damn the D20 and their rules


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## Tokiwong (Jul 22, 2004)

Hey Calinon and crew, what server you guys on for City of Heroes?


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## Calinon (Jul 22, 2004)

Liberty server, though my play time is all buggered up with night shift.  Emp/Rad defender named Sabrar is my main, just nearly level 21.


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## Mimic (Jul 22, 2004)

I have two that I play, Karate: scrapper 15th (just a shade away from 16) and Omagus: controller 12th


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## Agamon (Jul 23, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Regen gives a free recovery check to remove disabled the turn after its inflicted, not sure on what happens when you skip the disabled to go right to Dying though. Also the 1L should be healed on the turn after it was inflicted (turn I used hp to stabilize) If I don't get the regen check to recover, I'll spend the hero point to get one, in either case, +9 to it, and no lethal hit, so only DC 20 I believe.




I missed that she has Regen in her Hybrid form, giving her +7 overall.  That changes things.  Her Fort save is high enough to automatically stabilize last round.  I'll modify that.

However, for fututre reference, I think Dying and Dead are distinct from Disabled, and Regen doesn't give you an automatic check to recover from Dying (or Dead, of course).


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## Elementor (Jul 23, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> Elementor sheathes his body in flame flies up into the air with Miguel and Tyroc, manuevering to get a clear shot at the bound hulk.  Taking aim, he fires a stream of flame, striking him full in the head.  The huge elite howls more in anger than pain as the scorched earth smoulders around his singed head.
> 
> _Attack roll: 12, HP spent, 22 hits
> Damage save (DC 18): 16, VP spent, 30 succeeds (well, hey, at least you made him spend a VP)_




Yay me!


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## Calinon (Jul 23, 2004)

Definitely yay you   Never underestimate that little success.  I can see it playing a major role, just like when Speed Demon managed to put 1 teeny stun hit on the Mole, and it resulted in him failing a damage save and being knocked out.  If a few little things like that exhaust his supply of villain points, he might go down sooner, rather than later!


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## Agamon (Jul 24, 2004)

It's true.  There was no sarcasm in my statement.  In fact, I was kinda shocked at the roll and had make sure he hadn't spent a VP yet this turn...


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## Hammerhead (Jul 24, 2004)

Seems like we had a pretty lucky round of attacks on Legacy's Hulk. It seems like lethal damage might be the only way to take him down.


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## Shalimar (Jul 24, 2004)

Seems like its time for me to pull a coup de grace, a power-attack, surprise strike coup de grace. Something like +8,+2,+5,+4, or +19L for a DC 34 damage save.  Maybe we all should while he is hurt enough to get those negatives to his damage saves.


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## Calinon (Jul 24, 2004)

Three rounds are just coming to a close in combat, and the big ugly has gone from 4VP used to 8VP used... just an FYI.


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## Shalimar (Jul 24, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> Three rounds are just coming to a close in combat, and the big ugly has gone from 4VP used to 8VP used... just an FYI.



8 Villian points is a lot.


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## Calinon (Jul 25, 2004)

Yeah, but it's also a gamining impossibility. Aggy probably just added a hp useage twice in one round.


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## Shalimar (Jul 25, 2004)

7 is a lot as well, whats the most the guy could have?


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## Agamon (Jul 25, 2004)

He could have as many as his PL, if he has the feat that many times...if he has the feat at all.

And yeah, I messed up, good eye, Cal.  You might want to change your action from trying to slow down the unconscious guy...or not, up to you.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 29, 2004)

LOL I just realized we are fighting the Elite version of Maul from the Wildstorm Universe... from the WildCATs...


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## Agamon (Jul 29, 2004)

Tokiwong said:
			
		

> LOL I just realized we are fighting the Elite version of Maul from the Wildstorm Universe... from the WildCATs...




And that just goes to show you that there is no truly unique ideas anymore...though it is coincidence, since I know less than zero about WildCATs... 

Oh, by the way, I was feeling ill today, so no update, but I'll post something tomorrow.


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## Tokiwong (Jul 29, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> And that just goes to show you that there is no truly unique ideas anymore...though it is coincidence, since I know less than zero about WildCATs...
> 
> Oh, by the way, I was feeling ill today, so no update, but I'll post something tomorrow.



 Damn and I thought I earned brownie points  although Maul just gets bigger the madder he gets.. so not exactly the same...


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## Tokiwong (Jul 31, 2004)

Hey get better buddy!


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## Tokiwong (Aug 3, 2004)

Don't worry guys I have a plan... 

And it involves us winning...

Just not sure how to get to that point yet


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## Shalimar (Aug 3, 2004)

I think having the ones of us still awake pulling out the unconscious and then nuking the guy is our only option at this point.  All we have left is straight Damage and Fort Save powers, we could barely touch him with them before, we wont be able to touch him now.  Unless we aren't suppoused to win.


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## Tokiwong (Aug 3, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I think having the ones of us still awake pulling out the unconscious and then nuking the guy is our only option at this point.  All we have left is straight Damage and Fort Save powers, we could barely touch him with them before, we wont be able to touch him now.  Unless we aren't suppoused to win.



 we just need to regroup at the moment a Nuke is out of the question for a variety of reasons


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## Agamon (Aug 3, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Unless we aren't suppoused to win.




Now that depends on how you define 'win'.  Don't look at this as me putting you guys up against 'impossible odds'.  It is an unusual situation, definitely not a straight-up fight...


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## Shalimar (Aug 3, 2004)

More roleplay fall out in our first mission being a loss.  Either way, I don't think we will be able to stop the guy, well unless Misha uses his elite diplomacy skillz with Tyrone using his to aid in it, cause we sure wont do it with strength, I don't even think we have the ability to hurt him.


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## Calinon (Aug 3, 2004)

> _Should we do aid another... we really are working at cross purposes with us both Taunting..._



I can't assist you at the moment.  

First, I can't delay to your action in the next turn, but you can delay enough (barely) to get to mine.  21 (10+11) lets you get to a 4 initiative, where the best I can do is get to -7, which is still in this round.  Even if you delay next round, you technically go first, though I doubt Agamon would care about that.

Second, he's already used a hero point this turn, so he can't reroll a bad sense motive this round, nor a bad save on Slow, so I'll take my actions and hope for the best.  Once your turn comes up, he's got a hero point available to use on saves again.

Besides, two taunt attempts mean two saves necessary, and a better chance of him botching one, or at least having to use a hero point somewhere in the turn order before mine.


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## Agamon (Aug 4, 2004)

Silly MnM initiative rules.  I'd rather just use the 3.5 rules.  You can delay until the end of the round.  At that point, you lose your turn and automatically refocus your next round's turn to the top of the order.  You can then delay to whatever point you like.  You get a bit of versatility, but you lose an action.  Works for me, and allows for better teamwork (and what is this game, if not about teamwork?).

Edit: And now that I think of it, you don't have to have the same initiative to assist each other.  Tyroc can assist Misha easily, they're right beside each other in the order.  And even if they weren't, it wouldn't matter.  One does the assist, the other one does the action when his turn comes.  Doesn't matter if it's in different rounds.


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## Tokiwong (Aug 4, 2004)

no big deal we can just chalk this up to our lack of team synergy...


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## Calinon (Aug 4, 2004)

And I still am doing my actions since he has no hero points left.


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## Tokiwong (Aug 12, 2004)

Yaya Misha gets to play Spin Doctor... huzzah...


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## Calinon (Aug 12, 2004)

While disabled. That's not just hurt, that's "terribly injured."  Walking around while about to keel over where any exertion moves you to a dying condition is odd enough; giving a press conference with a wound of that level, you're bound to end up passing out or spitting blood all over those you're talking to or worse.


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## Tokiwong (Aug 12, 2004)

Calinon said:
			
		

> While disabled.  That's not just hurt, that's "terribly injured."



 eh... it is just a flesh wound


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## Agamon (Aug 12, 2004)

Yeah, if his condition was important, and he wasn't surrounded by medical people that could help him, he'd probably collapse, but I like to give players the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the RP part of the game.


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## Agamon (Aug 13, 2004)

Heh, looks like I cross-posted with Mimic and Elementor.  It's not really a epicenter, just where he started his rampage, albeit as a normal sized person(though still super-strong by baseline standards).


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## Calinon (Aug 13, 2004)

> *On the Aerodyne
> *It only takes moments to reach your destination. The street has been closed off and the area evacuated, so landing is not much of a problem. As the group exits the aerodyne, they notice that this section of the city is not nearly as badly damaged as where they were. In fact, the diner where it started looks like it only has some smashed furniture, a broken window and a hole in one of the walls.
> 
> "Well, no rubble to worry about here," Neutron says, looking around. "So, what are we looking for?"



I was a bit confused why we needed to take the Aerodyne to cross downtown Baltimore to start with, then I read the last part and was very confused. We aren't there looking for clues.  In fact, we weren't heading for any diner.  We were heading to the area he previously devastated then leapt out of.



> Things look like they've gone from bad to worse. A camera pans throughout an area that looksl ike an enormous bomb had hit it. The destruction seems to be rather widespread. It'd be surprising if there weren't a whole lot of injured and likely some deaths, though there seems little to report on that yet. The picture doesn't show the huge elite or any of AF, only emergency workers can be seen moving quickly throughout the carnage. You soon find out that this is because the battle moved several blocks away when the unknown elite lept away from the battle into a not-yet-fully-evacuated part of the city.





> Plumes of smoke can be seen from the vacinty of Baltimore before the city itself comes into view. Relatively speaking, much of city remains undamaged, but the downtown core is very much the disaster area you've seen on the news.



Now, if he did no significant damage to the part of downtown we needed to fly to, then we wouldn't have gone.  There would be zero need for us to go and we'd have stayed put and helped with S&R there.  So either things are as bad as they seemed and there is a significant need for S&R in the area he leapt out of, or we'll need to go back and edit posts so we don't go anywhere.  I mean, if the Aerodyne suddenly started going away from all the damage, the collapsed buildings and trapped people, I'd have demanded to put down immediately, or flew out of the thing myself.


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## Agamon (Aug 13, 2004)

Oh...you said you were headed back to the diner.  There are multiple spots that he's caused destruction.  The first is near the diner.  The collateral damage there is relatively minimal.  This is where AF first found him, and took care of him rather quickly.  He was then cuffed and loaded for transport.

The second is about 4 blocks away, where he escaped the transport.  A lot of damage was caused there, AF took him down again, this time requiring much more effort and causing quite a bit of structural damage.  Like with you guys, he didn't stay down long that time.  They fought some more there before he lept away.  He made a couple leaps actually in between there and when you guys got there.

So when you said you wanted to go back to where it started, I figured it was to have a look around.  If you just want to go to another area with a lot of collateral damage, no problem, I'll just retcon my post.  Sorry about the confusion.


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## Calinon (Aug 16, 2004)

Yeah, we're just going to help with S&R, not doing any investigation of anything.


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## Agamon (Aug 17, 2004)

Well, I hate to do this to you people (again, in some cases), but I realized this past week that I just have too much on my plate.  I considered slowing the game down some so I don't have to devote as much time to it, but then it lingers in the back of my mind as a responsibility that I'm shirking.  That, and losing 2 players from the first group was a big part of the first down time, losing two more original players this time doesn't help.  I like to build a game around the characters, losing half of the original group makes things more difficult.

Anyway, I'm hoping this will give me more time to devote to the two games I'm playing in, the hockey league I run, and, most importantly, getting away from this infernal machine in front of me more often.  Thanks for playing.


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## Tokiwong (Aug 17, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> Well, I hate to do this to you people (again, in some cases), but I realized this past week that I just have too much on my plate.  I considered slowing the game down some so I don't have to devote as much time to it, but then it lingers in the back of my mind as a responsibility that I'm shirking.  That, and losing 2 players from the first group was a big part of the first down time, losing two more original players this time doesn't help.  I like to build a game around the characters, losing half of the original group makes things more difficult.
> 
> Anyway, I'm hoping this will give me more time to devote to the two games I'm playing in, the hockey league I run, and, most importantly, getting away from this infernal machine in front of me more often.  Thanks for playing.



 I shed tears of sadness....


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## Tokiwong (Aug 17, 2004)

By the way any chance I can get any of your notes for the USA in Legacy... give me something to sift through and compile as I clean up the mess that is the Legacy setting


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## Mimic (Aug 17, 2004)

Agamon said:
			
		

> Well, I hate to do this to you people (again, in some cases), but I realized this past week that I just have too much on my plate.  I considered slowing the game down some so I don't have to devote as much time to it, but then it lingers in the back of my mind as a responsibility that I'm shirking.  That, and losing 2 players from the first group was a big part of the first down time, losing two more original players this time doesn't help.  I like to build a game around the characters, losing half of the original group makes things more difficult.
> 
> Anyway, I'm hoping this will give me more time to devote to the two games I'm playing in, the hockey league I run, and, most importantly, getting away from this infernal machine in front of me more often.  Thanks for playing.




Bummer...


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## Agamon (Aug 17, 2004)

I feel bad about it this time.  Last time I was a little peeved at the circumstances, this time I'm bummed I have to do it.  I'd rather do it this way than let it fade off without posting and no explanation, though.

Erm, notes, yes.   I have a lot of notes, but not much in hard copy, Toki.  Most of it's still in my head.  What I have is either on the website or is in the form of NPC char sheets, which you can have if you wish.  Other than that, we can discuss it next time I see you online.

I will keep the website going, though.  I'll add stuff for the Year One game, plus whatever else you put out Toki, like the Mudaba Adin write-up you did in the other OOC.  And I'll put the link in my sig.


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## Victim (Aug 17, 2004)

Hammerhead:


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