# Traditional haiku for mushroom hunters....



## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Alright ... who out there knew that the Japanese produced a fair sized body of haiku dedicated to hunting mushrooms?   

Here's one:

It is no dream!
Matsutake are growing
On the belly of the mountain!


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Here is another one:

Mushroom hunting;
They don't run away,
But everyone's in such a hurry!


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mushroom poetry!


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Here's another:

Mushroom hunting;
Someone not good at it
With an armful of wildflowers.


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Mushroom hunting;
> They don't run away,
> But everyone's in such a hurry!



I believe this one breaks the syllable count. 5-7-5?


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

In the original Japanese they do not. Haiku into english (any language, I am told) is nigh impossible.

So it's more of a literal translation.


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Here's another:

Mushroom gathering;
Today let's go on till we fall over
The roots of the trees.


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> In the original Japanese they do not. Haiku into english (any language, I am told) is nigh impossible.



I don't understand how it is impossible.


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

I think it has to do with the Japanese language itself.

I have only read a few books about it, and that was some time back, so I really couldn't say, unfortunately.  :\


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> I think it has to do with the Japanese language itself.
> 
> I have only read a few books about it, and that was some time back, so I really couldn't say, unfortunately.  :\



Language conversion; okay, now I understand.


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Here's my favorite:

I forgot falling off the horse
With the happiness
Of finding mushrooms.


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> I forgot falling off the horse
> With the happiness
> Of finding mushrooms.



Thats an odd one. But I like it.


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Here's a lovely one:

My voice
Becomes the wind;
Mushroom-hunting.


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Here's a lovely one:
> 
> My voice
> Becomes the wind;
> Mushroom-hunting.



My favorite so far.


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## hafrogman (May 14, 2007)

Mushroom enters bar
Tender denies him service
"But I'm a fungi!"


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

That one is a 19th c. haiku written by Masaoka Shiki (1866-1902).

It's a fave among mycophiles.


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

hafrogman said:
			
		

> Mushroom enters bar
> Tender denies him service
> "But I'm a fungi!"




An extemporaneous haiku! ... Or ... hmmm ... you holding off on us hafrogman? You a haiku translator?


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## hafrogman (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> An extemporaneous haiku! ... Or ... hmmm ... you holding off on us hafrogman? You a haiku translator?




Hmm, it may not be Japanese.  But it's a VERY old joke.  Doesn't that count?


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Here's one by the famous Basho himself, both in Japanese and an English translation:


matsutake ya
shiranu ko-no-ha no
nebaritsuku

[Matsuo Basho, 1644-1694]

o dear mushroom !
an unknown leaf
is sticking on to you


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Here's one by the famous Basho himself, both in Japanese and an English translation:
> 
> 
> matsutake ya
> ...



Thats a neat one too.


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

hafrogman said:
			
		

> Hmm, it may not be Japanese.  But it's a VERY old joke.  Doesn't that count?




  

If I had a nickel for every time I was the subject of the "fungi" joke ....

But yes sir ... it counts! No doubt you absorbed the Japanese poetical spirit while sitting atop a matsutake!


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## Angel Tarragon (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> But yes sir ... it counts! No doubt you absorbed the Japanese poetical spirit while sitting atop a matsutake!



ROFLOMA!!!


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## hafrogman (May 14, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> [Matsuo Basho, 1644-1694]
> 
> o dear mushroom !
> an unknown leaf
> is sticking on to you




It makes me curious if a literal translation in more important than the poetic form.  With a little tweaking.

o dearest mushroom!
an unidentified leaf
is stuck on to you


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## Mycanid (May 14, 2007)

Here's another:

Taking hold with the hand
Of the happiness of the mountain
Mushroom gathering!


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## Angel Tarragon (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Here's another:
> 
> Taking hold with the hand
> Of the happiness of the mountain
> Mushroom gathering!



Oooh, provocative.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

hafrogman said:
			
		

> It makes me curious if a literal translation in more important than the poetic form.  With a little tweaking.
> 
> o dearest mushroom!
> an unidentified leaf
> is stuck on to you




Well ... for us to understand in English a bunch o different versions is not bad. I have been told that almost every word in Japanese has multiple meaning and shades. Word play like puns is not funny to them, because their language is like that already. If you try it they look at you as if you are an idiot.  :\ 

So ... perhaps ... unidentified is different than unknown, however. One creates an intellectualized response, the other an emotive.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

Here's another one I really like:

Mushroom hunting;
Tall people
Are no good at it.


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## hafrogman (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Well ... for us to understand in English a bunch o different versions is not bad. I have been told that almost every word in Japanese has multiple meaning and shades. Word play like puns is not funny to them, because their language is like that already. If you try it they look at you as if you are an idiot.  :\
> 
> So ... perhaps ... unidentified is different than unknown, however. One creates an intellectualized response, the other an emotive.




Fair enough, that one was a difficult one.  I was going with mysterious, which I think was closer to the original sense, but I needed one more syllable.  But others I think could be done much better.

Perhaps it will not be quite true to the original, but then it seems like any translation would be lacking, so one may as well strive for the form.

Seizing with the hand
Happiness of the mountain
Mushroom gathering


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## hafrogman (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Here's another one I really like:
> 
> Mushroom hunting;
> Tall people
> Are no good at it.




That one is hilarious.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

hafrogman said:
			
		

> Fair enough, that one was a difficult one.  I was going with mysterious, which I think was closer to the original sense, but I needed one more syllable.  But others I think could be done much better.
> 
> Perhaps it will not be quite true to the original, but then it seems like any translation would be lacking, so one may as well strive for the form.
> 
> ...




But is the word "seizing" what is implied? Is their eagerness involved, or is it a delicate enjoyment, tread upon lightly as a butterfly on the breeze and just as fragile and beautiful?


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## Angel Tarragon (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Here's another one I really like:
> 
> Mushroom hunting;
> Tall people
> Are no good at it.



I think I'm missing the point. How come tall people are no good at mushroom hunting?

Myc, if you get a chance, please comment on my haikus.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

This one is not haiku (sorry for the OT post) but it is poetry, and sorta interesting. It's also a longer poem. Here goes:

Mushrooms
by Charles Tomlinson

for Jon and Jill

Eyeing the grass for mushrooms, you will find
A stone or stain, a dandelion puff
Deceive your eyes—their colour is enough
To plump the image out to mushroom size
And lead you through illusion to a rind
That's true—flint, fleck or feather. With no haste
Scent-out the earthy musk, the firm moist white,
And, played-with rather than deluded, waste
None of the sleights of seeing: taste the sight
You gaze unsure of—a resemblance, too,
Is real and all its likes and links stay true
To the weft of seeing. You, to begin with,
May be taken in, taken beyond, that is,
This place of chiaroscuro that seemed clear,
For realer than a myth of clarities
Are the meanings that you read and are not there:
Soon, in the twilight coolness, you will come
To the circle that you seek and, one by one,
Stooping into their fragrance, break and gather,
Your way a winding where the rest lead on
Like stepping stones across a grass of water.

Sourse: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poem.html?id=176223


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## hafrogman (May 15, 2007)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I think I'm missing the point. How come tall people are no good at mushroom hunting?




Because mushrooms grow close to the ground.  They're not trees.  Unless you've been hanging around in D&D adventures where they're huge.


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## Angel Tarragon (May 15, 2007)

hafrogman said:
			
		

> Because mushrooms grow close to the ground.  They're not trees.  Unless you've been hanging around in D&D adventures where they're huge.



Okay, so they are too tall to even notice them? Is that the point?


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I think I'm missing the point. How come tall people are no good at mushroom hunting?
> 
> Myc, if you get a chance, please comment on my haikus.




Ahh ... obviously not gone hunting for 'em!   

Seriously though ... mushrooms grow on the ground and often under things (leaves, etc.) so to have a "mushrump" as they are called catch the eye, you have to be down low and have an experienced eye - one I have not been able to develop much after all these years, admittedly.

Shorter people not only have less distance to stoop, but can crawl under branches and bushes and such after spied specimens!


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## hafrogman (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> But is the word "seizing" what is implied? Is their eagerness involved, or is it a delicate enjoyment, tread upon lightly as a butterfly on the breeze and just as fragile and beautiful?




I think there is supposed to be an element of excitement involved.  Not so much the sense of theft, but the concept of taking firm hold of what you desire.  English has a problem with many words meaning different things to different people as well.  Perhaps the poem (and subsequent translation) has a different meaning depending on who is gathering the mushrooms.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

Perhaps ... I, of course, interpret the translations based on what I understand of traditional Japanese culture and such. And ... of course ... my understanding IS kinda skewed by personal tastes and the like.

My tiny feedback to your possible emendations DEFInitely reflect my understanding of the culture and the art.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

Interesting ... here is a book I just stumbled across.

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/features/schmus/contents.html


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## hafrogman (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Perhaps ... I, of course, interpret the translations based on what I understand of traditional Japanese culture and such. And ... of course ... my understanding IS kinda skewed by personal tastes and the like.
> 
> My tiny feedback to your possible emendations DEFInitely reflect my understanding of the culture and the art.




Fair enough.  And I'm perfectly willing to accept that my interpretations are just flat out wrong.      But I still feel that with the incredible length and breadth of the English language, a solution exists that preserves as much of the original meaning as possible while still maintaining the syllabic structure.  I'm just not a good enough poet to tell you what the solution is


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## Angel Tarragon (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Ahh ... obviously not gone hunting for 'em!
> 
> Seriously though ... mushrooms grow on the ground and often under things (leaves, etc.) so to have a "mushrump" as they are called catch the eye, you have to be down low and have an experienced eye - one I have not been able to develop much after all these years, admittedly.
> 
> Shorter people not only have less distance to stoop, but can crawl under branches and bushes and such after spied specimens!



Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

Please do not get me wrong! I have a very large faith in the english language's ability to convey meanings. I am an anglophile to the max....

Of course, "every frog praises his own swamp", as they say (no personal insult meant) ... so perhaps such faith of mine is not surprising.


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## Mycanid (May 15, 2007)

DRAT! I ran out of haiku verses....


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## Angel Tarragon (May 15, 2007)

Mycanid said:
			
		

> Interesting ... here is a book I just stumbled across.
> 
> http://www.hup.harvard.edu/features/schmus/contents.html



Its available on Amazon.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 15, 2007)

Destroying Angel
You ate one? You IDIOT!
What did it taste like?


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## Olgar Shiverstone (May 15, 2007)

Sniff, snort, and inhale
Ah, the succulent visions
of mushroom hunting.

Long low lay the 'shroom
Skewered and fricassee'ed
the myconid king


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 15, 2007)

My mind is melting
I ate some "funny" mushrooms
Faerie-Winged Rhinos


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## Mycanid (May 16, 2007)

Hmm ... seems others also write mushroom haiku. 

Also hunters?


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