# RPM: Beta features update



## Luke (Jan 23, 2002)

RolePlayingMaster (RPM) is currently at the stage where I'm waiting on feedback to finalize the featureset of the beta release, (ie. for release 1). These features will be the ones I concentrate on for polish (fully working, with doco and possibly examples) in the first release.

I'll use this thread to keep you updated on a summary of the feedback I receive, and also possibly note any development improvements I may make whilst waiting for the feedback to come in.

Please do not be tempted to regard this as my personal reporting thread. Posts on this thread are most welcome, or e-mail to luke_jones@bigpond.com, or even fill out a survey form at www.enworld.org/roleplayingmaster.

Unless there's a good reason, such as a popular request, there may possibly not be any more release updates, until the actual beta release.

-----------------------------

*23 Jan - The story so far*


The new Guide - response to this has been very positive so far. Naturally there have been a few requests to have more options and more detailed explanations (which will happen). Just one person so far wanted a completely new interface, which won't happen.
 In-game vs Preparation features: There is a basic question on whether most use RPM as purely a preparation tool, or for actual in-game use. At this stage, the feedback indicates that the in-game features are a very important part of RPM use. Quite a few have indicated that they're starting to change their minds about not using a computer at the table...
The new generators - response has been good, but nothing much to suggest how they might be expanded, and integrated more thoroughly with RPM itself. I actually believe that they do have pretty awesome potential, so perhaps something more will happen after release 1.
AC and Dodge - A few have made the point that my visual separation of dodge factors (dex, feats etc) out of the AC is non-standard. Others like the fact that dodge only applies in certain cases, and is hence added to AC, when required. I'll probably go with the standard on this on. It's a small point for in-game combat, since all these factors are distinctly, automatically handled there.
 A few calls for a PCgen import. Depending on the time available after the feedback rolls in, I might give this a go.
 Import/Export features. At this stage it looks as though this will be limited to the specialized version for characters/creatures, and adventures. The very good news, though, is that I have have almost finalized the release 1 database schema. This is a techie way of saying that perhaps you'll only need program updates, and no longer wipe your own entered creations for races, classes, feats etc. when you update
 Auto-update causes lots of "list jumping" when playing with the item or spell lists. This is already mostly fixed.
 Request for villages and towns: I hope to do something more integrated for this with the generators, in the future.
Examples. Despite the "Guide" now being available, a few have said to to forget examples of generating encounters etc. - I won't.
 Psionics - a couple have asked when the rest of the psionics work will be done. So far, it looks as though just after release 1.
TileMapper tilesets - a couple have asked for expansions in this area. I actually have some freeware tilesets that could be converted, that I've been sitting on for a while. If anybody wants to take on such an effort, please let me know.
There are some other fairly minor points - not specifically mentioned here.

I normally try to respond to e-mail I recieve within 24 hours. Please note that whilst I'm waiting for beta feature feedback to flow in, I probably won't respond, but rather add your input to the list. If you want a direct response, just say so in your e-mail.

Regards,


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## Luke (Jan 23, 2002)

*Evolving beta: Monks, Barbarians and Options*

This is to keep you abreast of preparations for the beta.

*The New Features* 
(actually more a polishing of existing stuff)

Monks: If you add a level of monk to your character/NPC, RPM will now automatically give it a new "Monk Attack" attack with damage appropriate to level and size.
Barbarian: If you have barbarian levels, and click on  "IsEnraged" in the new "Options" window, you'll instantly see the effect on Hp, AC, Con, Str and Will. All knock effects apply in RPM. If you click Enraged off again, stats return to normal.
Options Window: This new window gathers together all the options your character/creature has, and allows you to change them with quick mouse clicks. Virtually anything, such as a feat, class feature, magical item etc, can create an "option". Examples of options: - A barbarian's choice to "Rage". - A monk's choice to pay the penalty and get an extra attack with "Flurry of Blows". - The type of attack you want to make (standard, feint, trip etc). - The number of points you want to allocate as hit and damage modifiers, using your "Power Attack" feat.

*The Technical Background* 
I've finally started to fill out the script expressions you can place in just about anything (classes, class features, skills, feats, items, etc), and tie them altogether in the RPG engine.

RPM is a generic D20 RPG engine, and that means that it's not allowed to specially code RPG data and code as part of the executable application. The RPG stuff all comes from the database, and from little scripts that anyone (with the knowledge) can add to, or modify.
The monk is a case in point. It is one of the more unusual core classes, in that it gets an extra attack, and damage based on level, which isn't part of the very core standard rules. Due to it's scripting flexibility, however, RPM can create the special "Monk Attack", along with damage that grows as the monk gains levels. There is no special "monk coding" within the RPM executable.

In this way RPM enables the use of new and different feats, (prestige) classes, skills etc. - as a truly expandable D20 RPG engine, capable of automating your in-game mechanics (as per Barbarian rage).

If you're into expanding the core system, scripting isn't always needed. A standard "Modifiers" system with a consistent GUI allows you to do much of the calculation work for many things, such as feats, items, class features, or racial abilities. Where scripting is needed, existing scripts can often be examined and copied.


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## annadobritt (Jan 23, 2002)

What needs to be done to the 

"TileMapper tilesets - a couple have asked for expansions in this area. I actually have some freeware tilesets that could be converted, that I've been sitting on for a while. If anybody wants to take on such an effort, please let me know."?

I have PSP7 and a couple of other editing programs, along with CC2 and FT.  

I might be able to help on this.

Anna M. Dobritt


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## Luke (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: Mapper tilesets*



			
				annadobritt said:
			
		

> *I might be able to help on this.*




Thanks for the offer Anna. I've already forwarded material to somebody who offered (he may contect you). I'll let you know how it goes...


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## Luke (Jan 25, 2002)

*Evolving beta: "Skills" gets some serious polish*

I've done some polishing work on the use of skills in RPM. Specifically, I've done all the little code scripts for all the skills from "Alchemy" to "Wilderness Lore".

This is about using RPM in-game. The most important facets about in-game features are that they are very firstly *useful* (providing reference material and automating mechanics as much as possible), and that they work well at the gaming table (they're *quick*, so you don't get distracted by prolonged looking at the computer).

So this is what you now have for skills...

If you click on a creature and ask for a skill, a skill list pops up. The list includes the creatures skills, as well as any untrained skills available. Alphabetical key search gets the skill quickly.
Once the skill is selected, the Action dialog displays the skill, with all of its options, and selections showing the appropriate defaults. It's also pre-rolled for speed, but you can press a re-roll button, or edit in a real dice roll.
All the standard modifiers are already included - ranks, abilities, armour checks (based on armor currently worn), DM adjustment etc.
 All specific modifiers are already included - synergy bonuses, special options for the skill (eg when you "Ride" an unusual mount, or have an alchemist's lab available for "Alchemy").
All available DC selections are presented (eg the various options for "Spellcraft" , or types of "Jump", or types of "Heal").
Any special results are given. Examples: "Jump" tells you how far you jumped. "Perform" randomly generates the amout you could earn, based on your check.
Any special failures are given. Examples: "Bluff" can simply fail, or be seen through. A failed "Craft" check may lose 1/2 the material cost.
 If you need to see a detailed description of the skill, it's a mouse click away.

If you're into extending RPM with your own skills, it's pretty simple. Once I did the first 5, the rest were tediously similar, and generally a few lines long. The standout was "Jump", which is more of a calculation. An an example, the creature height is needed, and RPM will prompt once for it, if necessary. RPM has no problem creating and storing ad-hoc variables for a creature, to support house rule variations.

 In all, a pretty quick, yet comprehensive process. You get a result with a couple of mouse clicks, or you can peruse to turn on specific conditions that may apply, all laid out for you.


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## Luke (Jan 27, 2002)

*Problems needing you to update your Internet Explorer*

I've recently become aware that in the latest version of RPM, you actually need to have Internet Explorer version 5.0, or higher, installed. 

If it's lower, you'll get a "syntax" error when you start up RPM.

The change which caused this increases the stability of RPM, so I need to keep it, and would ask that if you have a problem, simply update your version of internet explorer, for free, at http://www.microsoft.com .

My website stats show that about 1% of people browsing my site actually use a version of IE less than 5.0 .

Thanks,


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## RRakis (Jan 28, 2002)

*Small Suggestions*

What about hiding all of the Key id feilds needed for the database from the user. the user should never have to come up with a unque number to add a new spell or item 

also it really is a nice little program, Have you setup a way for people to share their items they added in to the program. ie like new classes from the books, etc .


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## Velik (Jan 29, 2002)

Luke,

I know its late in the game for a feature request but...

Would it be possible for you to make it so that a group or even a single critter be attached to a location on a map instead of the entire map? The reason being is I have started messing around with the report output and made a somewhat custom adventure report (see attachment) and trying to be able to organize things as easiest as possible. Example:

Location 1
Player Notes: blah blah blah
DM notes: blah blah blah
Critters/Groups: Orc Raiders; Orc Leader, Orc 1, Orc 2, Orc 3
Items: trap, big huge magical sword +10, 1000 gold

Also do you have a list of [[ ]] commands available so I could do more things with the reports?

Thanks,
Heath


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## Luke (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: Small Suggestions*



			
				RRakis said:
			
		

> *What about hiding all of the Key id feilds needed for the database from the user. the user should never have to come up with a unque number to add a new spell or item
> 
> also it really is a nice little program, Have you setup a way for people to share their items they added in to the program. ie like new classes from the books, etc . *




- Hiding ID fields: Good idea. I'll have a "Developer Mode" option to show this sort of thing. For either the beta, or after release 1, I'll have "Developer Mode" show all the little script windows for skills, feats etc where you can all your own new material, or modify your own house rules.

- Sharing data: This is actually about completing the general import/export capabililty in RPM. The adventures and creatures import/export will be polished for the beta, and I'm currently planning to do the full box-and-dice after the beta. If there are enough requests to get it in time for the beta, I'll try and swing it.

- "Nice little program"??? I would have thought that "little" would be one of the last words to describe it. If anything, it's so feature rich that the big challenge is to make it easy enough for people to get their heads everything available. I know of entire programs that are simply a "Jump Calculator", whereas RPM does this as a very, very minor side-line effect of executing a skill.  Just kidding! Good ideas, and thanks for the input.


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## Luke (Jan 29, 2002)

Velik said:
			
		

> *Luke,
> 
> I know its late in the game for a feature request but...*



Hi Velik,
It's not at all late. This is what the "beta features request" is all about. I simply rank the importance of all feedback, and do what I can to fit it all into the beta.



> *
> Would it be possible for you to make it so that a group or even a single critter be attached to a location on a map instead of the entire map? The reason being is I have started messing around with the report output and made a somewhat custom adventure report (see attachment) and trying to be able to organize things as easiest as possible.
> *



Nice idea! I've often though about attaching creatures to a location, but avoided it since you can move them around anywhere on the map. I like where you're going with the "Adventure" report though, and can see the benefits - especially if you don't want to go "in-game", and simply use RPM for game preparation.
How's about this for a thought: What if I let you associated a *group[\b] of creatures with a location, and well as the map itself? There's less fiddling, since assigning a group does it for all the creatures of the group, and you could still report the creatures belonging to a specific loaction.






Also do you have a list of [[ ]] commands available so I could do more things with the reports?


Click to expand...


Good to see you playing with reports at this level of depth! I've been waiting for a few people to start playing with reports, before filling out doco for it. If people start to use it, I also have a few extra commands in mind. \
For example, I plan to implement a [[Report:reportname]] command, which allows you to link reports together. This would be great, for example, to define your own specialised "Statblock" report. Then, whenever you needed to output a statblock (such as the "Adventure" report, you could just refer to this, and voila! People could have the same basic "Adventure" report, and other reports, with the statblock coming out just the way they like it!

Send me an e-mail, at your leisure, describing what else you want to do, and I'll get back with the available command set, some descriptions, and perhaps some ideas.

Regards,*


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## Ace32 (Jan 29, 2002)

Your program is quite interesting and good, from what I've seen so far. I haven't been able to quite get much out of it tho, besides playing with the features, because it seems to crash quite often, but I'm sure those are just beta bugs. I do have a few beefs. First, it's very confusing. I get lost sometimes going through it. Another problem, is that I can't figure out how to add new race abilities and the such, to make them automatically add when making a PC/NPC out of that race. Or a new race.

All in all, nice program! Can't wait til the final.


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## Velik (Jan 29, 2002)

> How's about this for a thought: What if I let you associated a group[\b] of creatures with a location, and well as the map itself? There's less fiddling, since assigning a group does it for all the creatures of the group, and you could still report the creatures belonging to a specific loaction.




Luke, 

That seems perfect. That way you could have the best of both worlds so to speak and what ever information I dont need on the report I just don't have to add like [[Map:Group.Creature]] just [[Location:Critter]] or however the syntax is  



> Good to see you playing with reports at this level of depth!




Well I just kinda looked at how you had things and cut and pasted with MS FrontPage. I really just have a VERY basic knowledge of any kind of programming. See everyone RPM isn't as hard as it looks just need to play around till you get familiar with it and it DEFINITELY is getting alot easier to use as it comes along.

Regards,
Heath


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## Luke (Jan 29, 2002)

Ace32 said:
			
		

> *Your program is quite interesting and good, from what I've seen so far. I haven't been able to quite get much out of it tho, besides playing with the features, because it seems to crash quite often, but I'm sure those are just beta bugs. I do have a few beefs. First, it's very confusing. I get lost sometimes going through it. Another problem, is that I can't figure out how to add new race abilities and the such, to make them automatically add when making a PC/NPC out of that race. Or a new race.
> 
> All in all, nice program! Can't wait til the final. *




I've recently implemented the "Guide" to help out with confusion. The approach seems to be a winner, so it seems to be a question of putting more options, and option details in the guide. Will do for beta.

You don't actually add race abilites when you create a new creature - they are automatically obtained from the race definition itself.
If you create your own races, there is an "Abilities" tab for defining the abilties of a given race. Simplest way to bring up the Race window is the hotkey [Shift+Alt+R].

A lot of people seem to be happy to just wait and see what's in the final. I'm waiting on community input to see what the most desired features are.


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## Cergorach (Jan 29, 2002)

I just noticed that RPM doesn't allow templates to be added to creatures, is it just me, or did i miss something. Templates are one of the more important features of 3e...


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## Luke (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re:Templates*



			
				Cergorach said:
			
		

> *I just noticed that RPM doesn't allow templates to be added to creatures, is it just me, or did i miss something. Templates are one of the more important features of 3e... *




"Templates" means different things to different people. What do you mean by it? Do you mean Vampire, Half-Dragon, Ghost etc.?

If so, I agree. I would say that it's important, yet this is the first mention of it by anybody. The templates are in the "Race Template" window (hotkey is [Shift+Alt+T]). That defines the templates, and lets you add new ones. if you like.
The problem is that I haven't provided a way to actually assign a template to a character/creature yet.
The reason: Until now nobody has mentioned it. Of all the many, many possible things that RPM could be programmed to do, I've decided to focus on what people actually ask for. Strangely, this is the first mention of racial templates...
Here's another: Only 1 person even hinted at wanting to assign domains to Clerics. Go figure.

It's a pretty strange phenomenom: Very large mailing list. Tens of thousands of downloads. Lots of very positive and encouraging feedback. Yet I get very, very little response to find out what people actually want to see polished in the beta release. Makes it extremely difficult for me to know where to focus my energy    Far as I know, not one person (even you) actually sees a need for it. You've only noticed that they're "not there", and mentioned that they're important.
This is, by far, my most frustrating issue with developing RPM.


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## Cergorach (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: Re:Templates*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *
> 
> "Templates" means different things to different people. What do you mean by it? Do you mean Vampire, Half-Dragon, Ghost etc.?
> 
> ...




Right on target young Skywalker... Erm, Luke ;-)
The "problem" with RPM is that it's so darned huge, i only find things missing when i need them and can't find them.
My personal preference would be:
1.) Everything that is in RPM works properly.
2.) Every functionality that the SRD offers should be in RPM.
3.) Basic SRD game prep. features, nothing fancy, just functional.
4.) Basic SRD ingame features, nothing fancy, just functional.
5.) Add bells and whistles, make it more user friendly, etc.
Documentation should be an ongoing process, the ideal situation would be that when you add something you document it.
Maybe it would be usefull to compile a list of what is in RPM and what is not and how functional it is and should be. That way people can choose what they find important and what not.

As a sidenote, no offense intended to those who think the program should be more usersfriendly, currently development of RPM should (IMHO) concentrate on the integrety of the game mechanics. I find it strange (to put it mildly) that people ask for userfriendlyness (and other gadgets)before things like templates and domains (yeah, yeah, i'm guilty as well, my only defense, i thought they were in there, somewhere). I personally would rather have a crappy fully functional program, than an excellent unfinished program...


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## Luke (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re:Templates*

Thanks for this Cergorach.

Firstly, I've now put in the templates. You can add them in, and they appear in the statblock. Have to make them do all the right mechanics now...



> *
> 1.) Everything that is in RPM works properly.*



Interesting one. I've been wondering if I should actually remove functions that are not fully polished, for the beta.


> *
> 2.) Every functionality that the SRD offers should be in RPM.
> *



That's *big*. Real big. It's practically everything in the PHB, DMG and MM combined. It's easy to ask for, but...
Additionally, my ultimate aim is to be able to play the mechanics in-game correctly. That's absolutely massive. I don't think you'll find anything even vaguely like that anywhere. It won't happen for release 1, so the on-going question is - "What should happen for release 1?"


> *
> 3.) Basic SRD game prep. features, nothing fancy, just functional.
> *



Any specifics? Polishes needed in character/creature generation, character sheet reports, adventure and map making?


> *
> 4.) Basic SRD ingame features, nothing fancy, just functional.
> *



This is the obvious place to cut corners for release 1. The issue is - what can be put in simply, yet will do enough work (and quickly enough), to make it worth having RPM in-game, even for experienced DMs?

In general, there's a lot already in RPM, in all areas. The question is one of specifics. Which features to polish.


> *
> 5.) Add bells and whistles, make it more user friendly, etc.
> *



Problem. Whilst those who've been looking at RPM long enough might not (and by all reports aren't) to fussed about user interface, for others the user interface is the thing needed most to get functionality out of RPM.


> *
> Documentation should be an ongoing process, the ideal situation would be that when you add something you document it.
> *



Problem. In alpha mode, screens change around and different ways of doing things are found. Final implementation often depends on user feedback. If sufficient documentation is done on an on-going basis, I end up throwing most of it away - and time is the most precious commodity. It's the old catch22, and I depend on those that manage to get by without doco to be able to get enough work done in the minimum time.


> *
> Maybe it would be usefull to compile a list of what is in RPM and what is not and how functional it is and should be. That way people can choose what they find important and what not.
> *



Not a bad idea at all. Point out all the short falls (semi-finished stuff), and get "votes" on them.

Good feedback. Thanks.


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## CRGreathouse (Jan 30, 2002)

OK, Luke, I just installed the latest version (ZIP file).  As I go through it, I'll point out what I see that's wrong.

* The warrior should use a d8 HD instead of a d10 HD (DMG page 39; the DMG errata does not change this)
* When I equipped a mw spiked chain, it had the wrong damage: Str 14 -> 2d4+2 instead of 2d4+3
* RPM won't let me equip a mighty comp longbow (or choose its mighty bonus)
* The equipment value is off: 100 gp for a longsword, mw spiked chain, mighty composite longbow, and +1 chain shirt.  The weight is also off: 25 lbs.  It seems like it won't refresh these, even when I press "refresh."
* RPM doesn't take Weapon Finesse into account for my spiked chain ("chain (spiked)", "spiked chain", "Chain, Spiked", etc. won't work)
* I still don't see # of skill points to allocate, nor do I see a way to put in c/c skills (like Tumble)
* The weight/cost for all of my weapons is the same as the longsword: 4 lbs, 15 gp
* When leveling up, I'm told that I have 6 feats to assign, instead of 1 - when I chose the first new feat (all old feats were still there), it said 1/6 chosen.
* Skill points when leveling up were also cumulative
* When adding a level of fighter, *all* skills were super-cross class - 1/4 ranks per point.
* After leveling and refreshing, my attack bonus was far, far off:


> Kytess, female Human Ftr4:
> CR 4, Size M, HD 4D10+8, hp 9, Init 0, Spd 30, AC 14, Dodge 4, Attack 4, SV Fort 6, Ref 5, Will -1; AL N;
> Str 16(3), Dex 18(4), Con 14(2), Int 12(1), Wis 7(-2), Cha 8(-1),
> 
> [Longsword]:Melee null +5 (1d8+2/crit 19-20); [Spiked Chain]:; Melee Masterwork Chain (spiked) +6 (2d4+2);



Even ignoring the Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus, the attack bonus should have been +8 (+4 BAB, +1 mw, +3 Str).
* There was no good way to add the bonus for my mw weaponsmith's tools (inherent bonus just didn't seem to fit...)
* The AC didn't include the enhancement bonus from the _+1 chain shirt_.
* The save bonus for the cloak of resistance wasn't included (even when equipped)

Other issues:
* I'd prefer if AC included the "dodge" bonus by default
* I'd like to have the option to remove the ability modifiers after the scores (off by default would be best)
* Skills should have a + or - before the modifier: Swim +6 instead of Swim 6
* I'd like to be able to hide the "default" feats - weapon and armor proficiency
* I'd prefer the fighter ability be named "Weapon Specialization Access" to differentiate it from the psionic warrior's free Weapon Specialization


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## DazKaz (Jan 30, 2002)

This is a copy of an E Mail I sent you a while back.

Just downloaded the latest update. These are the things I would like to see Implemented or problems I have had so far:

A list of pre-generated monsters as per the Summon Monsters Spell, I had a lot of trouble trying to create a celestial dog. Have you addressed the issue of  Monster Templates yet?

I would like to see the Forgotten Realms feats etc. as I am playing a Forgotten Realms campaign at present.

In the character creation wizard there doesn't appear to be a way to remove feats / skills once you have chosen them to swap them for another. This is especially annoying, and  I feel is a priority for change.

Feats and skills that come with class i.e. Rangers Track, should be greyed out when selecting feats in the wizard so as not to select them twice.

The tile mapper is excellent, it obviously needs more tile sets but the concept is superb. I would like to see a layer of dark tiles that can be placed over the whole map, and then with the click of the mouse reveal the map you created underneath as the PC's explore areas. i.e If they can only see 30ft just click on the tiles immediately surrounding them until 30ft radius is revealed. 

I would still like to see a way of handling the weight, and cost of equipment carried in the Backpack or other removable storage items. Perhaps it can be dun by adding tabs to the Items/Active bar i.e C carried, E equipped, S stored you could also have B backpack, PL pouch left, PR pouch right, BA bandolear etc.

I think people are not Informing you about things like Templates, and Standard character sheet layouts when printing, because like me they assumed it was a necessity and sure to be implemented, just that you hadn't got round to incorporating it yet.

I'm really looking forward to the finnished product, but like some of the others I'm having trouble creating stuff due to frequent crashes.


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## Luke (Jan 30, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *OK, Luke, I just installed the latest version (ZIP file). *




Thanks Charles. Very useful feedback. I re-did "Kytess" on *my current, personal version *, and it went a lot better.

Thanks to your input, I've fixed numerous little database edits (Warrior HD, use of mighty bow in attacks, cloak of resistance modifiers, many weight/costs for items etc).

There are already many issues that are fixed on the current work-in-progress, such as the calculated cost of magical items.

*Some clarifications*
* Skill Point allocation: This should be done from the "Level Up" window, under the "Skills" tab. That is where you see the available points you have to allocate. RPM reports the "Points Earned" and "Points Spent" for each class you have. You allocate from "Points Spent" to the currently selected skill. For multi-class, you simply click on the appropriate class to allocate available points from it. The colour coding determines the cost (green = class, white = cross-class, red = not available). So, a fighter wanting to put points into the cross-class "Tumble" skill goes down the skill list to the white "Tumble" entry, and starts spending points.

*Why Kytess got 6 feats, rather than 1: This is because your Kytess character is a 4th level human fighter. The automatic class feats don't count. RPM gave Kytess 6 (human = +1, level4 = +2, 4th level Ftr Bonus = +3). So, when you spent 1, RPM reported "6 earned", "1 Assigned".

* Weapon Costs and weights: You may have been looking at the total, rather than the individual items??? Individual item details are obtained via the "Details" button under creature items.

* MasterWork items: This is the same method you used to make your chain-shirt a +1. You simply check "MasterWork" in the items "Set Item Effects" window. You can either do this when you first create the item (by checking "Add Magic/Effects"), or later, when viewing the item details window (by clicking on "Item Functions" and selecting "Magic Effects").

*Issues that are still current on my version*
* creating a mighty bow doesn't yet ask you for it's mighty bonus, or factor one it in the attack description. I'm completing the "full combat model" before certain things can be properly taken into account.
* Feats that effect a specific item, or item type (such as weapon focus or finesse), are also waiting on the full combat model.
* There is an issue where the "Level Up" skills can suddenly switch to all red ("super-cross-class"), which I'll quickly fix.
* Adding a magical enhancement bonus to armor doesn't yet flow through to AC (works for weapons).

*Other issues*
* Dodge now added to AC. Will work well, since it'll be a modifier that RPM will automatically ignore, when dodge doesn't apply.
* Statblock options. Will do (lower priority, or course). I have a list of options that I eventually want to raise with you on the "Standard Statblock".
* Will add "+" to positive modifiers.

Here's "my" Kytess:


> Kytess, female Human [] Ftr4:
> CR 4, Size M, HD 4D10+8, hp 31, Init 0, Spd 30, AC 22, Dodge 4, Attack 4, SV Fort 8, Ref 7, Will 1; AL N;
> Str 17(3), Dex 18(4), Con 14(2), Int 12(1), Wis 7(-2), Cha 8(-1),
> 
> ...


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## Luke (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: DazKaz feedback*



			
				DazKaz said:
			
		

> *This is a copy of an E Mail I sent you a while back.
> *



Thanks DazKaz. Haven't forgotten it.



> *
> A list of pre-generated monsters as per the Summon Monsters Spell, I had a lot of trouble trying to create a celestial dog. Have you addressed the issue of  Monster Templates yet?
> *



Spells, like skills now do, could have their own code to do things - like create new creatures. It just so happens I (hot of the press) have templates working, but the form of it isn't yet finalised.


> *
> I would like to see the Forgotten Realms feats etc. as I am playing a Forgotten Realms campaign at present.
> *



No can do. They are copyright, and providing them is illegal. You need to enter them yourself, or perhaps get an export from somebody else (down the track). I'll be hoping that those using other people's exports actually have the books themselves.


> *
> In the character creation wizard there doesn't appear to be a way to remove feats / skills once you have chosen them to swap them for another. This is especially annoying, and  I feel is a priority for change.
> *



You can do this in the "Feats" tab on the creature window, and I'll look into something for the "Level Up" window.


> *
> Feats and skills that come with class i.e. Rangers Track, should be greyed out when selecting feats in the wizard so as not to select them twice.
> *



RPM knows which feats can be taken multiply, and will throw up a warning message anyway. In "Level Up" (where you should do this sort of thing), a feat is already colour coded green, If you have it.


> *
> The tile mapper is excellent, it obviously needs more tile sets but the concept is superb. I would like to see a layer of dark tiles that can be placed over the whole map, and then with the click of the mouse reveal the map you created underneath as the PC's explore areas. i.e If they can only see 30ft just click on the tiles immediately surrounding them until 30ft radius is revealed.
> *



Thanks. A couple of volenteers are looking into providing more tilesets. Your "fog of war" idea is what I actually have in mind eventually for network play. The current BattleMap is really for the DM, but it would be nice if he could "flick the switch" for player view, and show them. My idea for networking is that each character would have movements and sight tiles recorded, so they could refer to their map etc. TileMappers are excellent for being able to record that sort of detail.


> *
> I would still like to see a way of handling the weight, and cost of equipment carried in the Backpack or other removable storage items. Perhaps it can be dun by adding tabs to the Items/Active bar i.e C carried, E equipped, S stored you could also have B backpack, PL pouch left, PR pouch right, BA bandolear etc.
> *



And I want to do that. It's pretty low priority compared to things that must be done for the beta release though. My thought are that it would be nice if certain items (such as bags of holding, or portable holes) actually "absorbed" weight. I think that very few are going to want to get down to a pouch left/pouch right level. If you think it all through, it's a lot of laborious work - for any kind of user interface - for very little return.


> *
> I think people are not Informing you about things like Templates, and Standard character sheet layouts when printing, because like me they assumed it was a necessity and sure to be implemented, just that you hadn't got round to incorporating it yet.
> *



Understand, but it's too much assumption. The game rules are huge, and I'd like to eventually get everything done, but I need to get a release 1 out (ie. the beta), and it can't have everything (see "crashes" below).



> *
> I'm really looking forward to the finnished product, but like some of the others I'm having trouble creating stuff due to frequent crashes. *



Sorry to hear that. Some seem to have problems, and others report that they think it's stable. That's the nature of alpha version software, and *why* I must get a release 1 out, that does "guarantee" stability in the "must have" features (whatever they are). Whilst this is an alpha-feedback program, I do try hard to make sure that the "early adopters" get something useful out of playing with it.

* The most important thing is that everyone has an opportunity to get a pretty decent glimpse of what RPM will be when "finished", and has every opportunity to have a say in how it turns out...  

Thanks!*


----------



## CRGreathouse (Jan 30, 2002)

First, Luke, I'll say that you've come a long way with RPM.  Now I'll continue with my analysis:



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> **Why Kytess got 6 feats, rather than 1: This is because your Kytess character is a 4th level human fighter. The automatic class feats don't count. RPM gave Kytess 6 (human = +1, level4 = +2, 4th level Ftr Bonus = +3). So, when you spent 1, RPM reported "6 earned", "1 Assigned".
> 
> * Weapon Costs and weights: You may have been looking at the total, rather than the individual items??? Individual item details are obtained via the "Details" button under creature items.
> *




The feats Kytess had: Armor Prof (all), Weapons (Simple, Martial), Power Attack, Cleave, WFinesse (chain), WProf (chain), Combat Reflexes, and one or two more.  I choose 5 feats on character creation, and 6 *more* were offered upon leveling up.

Weapon cost/weight: the total was off, as was the individual listing to the side of each item.

I didn't have any trouble equipping mw items - it took me a full 5 seconds to figure it out the first time, and it was easy after that.  (Standard action to figure out a typical RPM feature? )

I'll look over the skills again and tell you if I can figure it out.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Jan 30, 2002)

I just started RPM again to test another tricky character - most of my characters take the rules as far as they can go.  Unfortuntly, there was a major problem testing this one: as soon as I finished the "Add Creature" wizard, the characer disapeared, never to be seen again.  I could see the stat block being built below the wizard, but when I clicked the "Add creature" button, it was gone.  It wasn't in any of the records...

Naldak, the dwarven barbarian, was gone.  Any ideas?


----------



## Luke (Jan 30, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *First, Luke, I'll say that you've come a long way with RPM.
> *



Thanks, but don't buckle on me now. I'm thinking you'll set the highest standards before being happy, and will keep me honest  Theres a long way to go before the vision is realized. Until then, I'll try to make version 1 the best option out there anyway. The grail is generic in-game mechanics automation, but the amount of foundation you need to lay for that is staggering.



> *I choose 5 feats on character creation, and 6 *more* were offered upon leveling up.
> *



Perhaps you used the skill and feat lists available in the "Lists" tab of "Add Creature", or in the "Creatures" window. These carry the warning "Use 'Level Up' for proper..." and are really meant for DMs to quickly knock up creatures, not caring for rules. "Level Up" is the way to go for adding classes, skills, feats and ability points, and I should make it more obvious.


> *
> Weapon cost/weight: the total was off, as was the individual listing to the side of each item.
> *



Hmmm. Don't know what happened, except that magical items cost is off on your version.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Jan 30, 2002)

Luke said:
			
		

> *Perhaps you used the skill and feat lists available in the "Lists" tab of "Add Creature", or in the "Creatures" window. These carry the warning "Use 'Level Up' for proper..." and are really meant for DMs to quickly knock up creatures, not caring for rules. "Level Up" is the way to go for adding classes, skills, feats and ability points, and I should make it more obvious.*




Yes, I did.  I haven't had much luck with the "level up" button, though, and I'm not sure how it would be used for 1st level characters - you can't level up, right?

When I made Naldak, I didn't put in any feats or skills, intending to level him up.  As posted above, it didn't work...


----------



## Luke (Jan 31, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> Yes, I did.  I haven't had much luck with the "level up" button, though, and I'm not sure how it would be used for 1st level characters - you can't level up, right?
> 
> When I made Naldak, I didn't put in any feats or skills, intending to level him up.  As posted above, it didn't work... *




You should use "Level Up" to make a first level character. Effectively you start off "0-level", with no classes, and then go level-up to 1. If you don't check "Player Character" at the start, you could have some Race levels, and still use "Level Up" to add a class level.

Naldak is there. Go back into RPM and you'll find him. If you assigned him to an adventure, map, or group not in the current "Creature List" view, then you won't find him in the creature list. You could have hundreds of creatures tucked away in different adventures (using adventure "None" for your character collection?). Most likely, I have a problem and you needed to click on the "Creature List" window, and re-select "Current Adventure" to refresh the list  

This is all very useful. Good info to indicate what "little things" I can make clearer on screen, which will make a lot of difference to understandability. Also what extra info to put in the "Guide".

Thanks again!


----------



## CRGreathouse (Jan 31, 2002)

"Level up" to a first level character?  Yes, I think you'll need to explain that - it's counterintuitive.  Fortunatly, most of RPM is clearly laid out, or seems that way to me.

OK, I admit, Naldak was there.  I understand now, but that wasn't too clear to me.  I doubt it'll be a real problem, though, unlike the above. 

Well, I suppose I'll continue with Naldak.  His HD are properly calculated as 1d12+2d10+12, but his hit points (oddly enough) are 2.  Mistake on my part?  Likely, but I don't know.

I'm now going back to re-create Naldak as a level 0 dwarf.

I'm having trouble with items... after selecting a heavy pick, _+1 chain shirt_, and _+1 large wooden shield_, I removed the default items (scale mail, shortbow, etc.) and refreshed the screen.  All good, until I click "Next" - it puts the default items back.  Try as I might, it won't let me keep them off... "post edit" is equally useless here.  Ditto for the attacks.  Perhaps these are functions of level 0 characters?

Continuing to the Level Up screen...
Feats: Earned 1, Assigned __.  Good so fsr.  I select a feat, and look!  Earned 1, Assigned 1.  I'm happy.

On the skills screen, I see a fairly large (and likely unfixable) error - uncapped skill ranks.  I can put all of my ranks into Ride...

Going to the stat block, I noticed that the default items are still all there, so I tab over to "items" and fix it.  Despite having to move the cursor from the item I want to delete to the delete button and then to the alert box, it didn't take too long - and it stayed fixed this time.  I quickly equipped the heavy pick in my primary hand and the _+1 wooden shield_ in the other.

Back to the stat block, my total weight and gold are 10/7 - still not nearly accurate.  The skills list my ranks instead of my modifiers: "Climb 4, Handle Animal 4, Jump 4, Ride 4, Tumble 2" instead of "Climb +8, Handle Animal +3, Jump +8, Ride +8, Tumble +6" (or "Climb +7, Handle Animal +3, Jump +7, Ride +8, Tumble +5", if it knew about my armor check penalty for the _+1 chain shirt_).

This brings up an important issue: what are you going to do with armor check penalties?  The obvious answer is to incluide them on the stat block and let them change for in-game calculations, but it's not that easy.  For example, take a character with a large wooden shield and scale mail, with the skills Tumble, Swim, Climb, Jump, and Listen.  Tumble is impossible in scale mail, Swim has a special armor check penalty, Climb is impossible with a shield, Jump just uses the basic armor, and Listen ignores them all.  Granted, this is a contrived example, but it shows the complexity of the skill system.

A related issue is items: climbing kit, _ring of swimming_, and mw artisan's tools.  Also, what about Alertness and Skill Focus?  What about familiars granting Alertness and +2 to Move Silently checks?

Back to Naldak, let's look at his atatcks (after refreshing):


> [Attack1]:Melee null null (1d10+4/crit x3); [Attack2]:; Ranged null null (1d6/crit x3);



Remember, the "items" tab lists the pick in his primary hand and the shield in the off-hand.

Continuing, the (non-Dodge) AC is 16, correct if the enhancement bonuses are discarded - I assume this will be added in later.  The dodge is 8, for some reason.  No relevant feats and Dex 18 - what's up?

OK, that's enough for now.  I hope my devil's advocate position on skills didn't discourage you...


----------



## Luke (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re:Naldek*



> *
> His HD are properly calculated as 1d12+2d10+12, but his hit points (oddly enough) are 2. *



You probably edited in the level number (no dice are rolled). If you "Level Up" a class at a time, you do the right dice rolls - with manual override, if you want it.


> *
> ...it puts the default items back
> *



Something I need to change. These are as defined for the race type, and works well for DMs quickly knocking up masses of creatures. At the least, I need to reproduce natural attacks, and perhaps ignore weapons, after the first time. In my version, I also support items based on class, rather than just race. Problem was I followed the monster manual (excuse me - the SRD!), which tends to assign default weapons to many races that actually can have classes for which the weapons are inappropriate.
My long term plan is be able to configure certain items (weapons/attacks..) as "mandatory" (eg. natural attacks), and possibly a randomly selected list after that. This all ties in with my earlier questions on the new "generators" and what people thought. In the blink of an eye, the scripting engine could be calling the generators to pick weapons, equipment, visual traits etc etc. All the infrastructure is there - just need the time.


> *
> On the skills screen, I see a fairly large (and likely unfixable) error - uncapped skill ranks.  I can put all of my ranks into Ride...
> *



Ahh... You're a rules man. How do you determine a cap on a skill which is a class skill for some class levels you have, and a cross-skill for other class skills??? Don't be tempted to answer too quickly now 


> *
> my total weight and gold are 10/7
> *



Now I recall. On the version you have, the totals are set to the last item, rather than the true sum. It's fixed now.


> *The skills list my ranks instead of my modifiers...what are you going to do with armor check penalties?
> *



I really should make my current version available to you. I think you'd love it (see my very early post in this thread on skills). The handling is very, very nice in-game, but scant in the statblock. I've raised issues before (that you may have read) with regard to pretending that you're showing all the modifiers in a statblock.

In general response to "armor check" penalties, RPM knows which skills are afected by armor check, and it automatically keeps track of your total check penalty, based on equipped shield and armor (or any other item modifier that the DM decides needs an armor check penalty - house rules). There's also always the full description, just a mouse click away.


> *
> A related issue is items: climbing kit, ring of swimming, and mw artisan's tools.  Also, what about Alertness and Skill Focus?  What about familiars granting Alertness and +2 to Move Silently checks?*



Yeah, all taken care of (partly in your version as well). I've played with equipping magical items with climbing and swimming bonuses, and with Alertness. "Skill Focus" is unfortunately, at the moment, in the same bag a "Weapon Focus" (earlier post).

Just bring up the creature "Modifiers" window. You can check out modifiers all over the place (creatures, feats, racial abilities, items, etc). It'll show you how feats like Alertness effect skills, and how a ring of swimming effects the swim skill. Using "Modifiers" is the RPM front-line to avoiding scripting. The "rank" makes sure you process everything in the right order (for example you must apply all modifers that affect Strength, before you apply other modifiers that utilise the strength modifier.


> *
> The dodge is 8, for some reason.
> *



Again, go check out the "Modifiers". There are various sort methods for listing them all, and you should find the things that affect "Dodge" in there.


> *
> OK, that's enough for now.  I hope my devil's advocate position on skills didn't discourage you... *



Not at all. When you get the next version and check it out in-game, I think you'll be impressed. Just re-read that earlier post of mine on skills.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Re:Naldek*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *Ahh... You're a rules man. How do you determine a cap on a skill which is a class skill for some class levels you have, and a cross-skill for other class skills??? Don't be tempted to answer too quickly now*




JScript:

```
function maxRanks(c,cc) {
 if(c+cc==0) return 0;
 if(c==0) return (cc+3)/2;
 return c+cc+3;
}
```

BASIC:

```
Function maxRanks (c,cc)
If c+cc=0 Then
 maxRanks=0
Elseif c=0 Then
 maxRanks=(cc+3)/2
Else
 maxRanks=c+cc+3
End If
End Function
```

In either case, call maxRanks in the format MaxRanks(sum of levels for which the skill is a class skill, sum of levels for which the skill is a cross-class skill).  Example (BASIC):
? "Read Lips: "; maxRanks(Rog,0)
? "Bluff: "; maxRanks(Brd+Rog,cLevel-Brd-Rog)

Obviosuly, this will become more complicated when you automate it instead of hard-coding the class skills, but you get the idea.  You'll want to toy with these functions so it fits your data moel most efficiently, I'm sure.


----------



## Luke (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: Skill maximums*



			
				CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> In either case, call maxRanks in the format MaxRanks(sum of levels for which the skill is a class skill, sum of levels for which the skill is a cross-class skill).  Example (BASIC):
> ? "Read Lips: "; maxRanks(Rog,0)
> ? "Bluff: "; maxRanks(Brd+Rog,cLevel-Brd-Rog)
> ...




Doh! I missed an easy one. In the PHB p.56 - "For the purpose of calculating maximum ranks, a skill is a class skill if at least one of the characters classes has it as a class skill.

How easy is that?


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 1, 2002)

Well, you weren't exactly specific when you asked for skill maximums.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 1, 2002)

In RPM, the classes you don't qualify for are marked in red.  That's good and well.  However, there's a class that it let me take when I didn't qualify: the aristocrat.  Qualification rules:

If characterLevel > 0 And aristocratLevel = 0 Then aristocratQualify = false Else aristocratQualify = true

more or less.  You can only take levels in Aristocrat if it was your first class...


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 3, 2002)

Any news?  It's been a few days, and I want to know about your progress; are you still polishing, or is something up?


----------



## Luke (Feb 4, 2002)

*The evolving beta*



			
				CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Any news?  It's been a few days, and I want to know about your progress; are you still polishing, or is something up? *



Hey Charles,
I'm not sure how much is polishing, and how much is finally implementing fundamental features, but I've been pretty busy. I have a list of some 76 items I've extracted from my e-mails over the last 5 weeks, that I've been working on, in addition to items already mentioned on this thread, as follows...

*Major Functions*

Implemented "SubClasses" (Clerical domains and Wizard specialization). This is now done in a generic D20 sense (rather than special RPM coding), so should be hopefully translatable to Psionics. Clerical domains are the most interesting, where the powers start appearing in your lists, depending on your alignment and domains. The interface is a bit clunky, and I'll polish before release.
Implemented Templates. These are selectable (and removable), and come as a kind of "SubRace". It works, except that I've not configured all the different templates ("Half-Celestial" looks good on your Kytess character though).

*Miscellaneous Features/Fixes*

"Stunning Attack" now obtained by Monk at 1st level.
Some spelling errors corrected (eg. "Equippped").
Multiple "staggered" conditions removed when creatures are damaged down to 0 hp.
The "Dice Roller" window tidied up (less cramped).
Some missing "mouse over" hints added in.
Integrated "Jamis NPC generator" doesn't use the confusnig "on-line" version. The off-line version works well, and is fine.
Various hints are now placed on several windows to make their use more obvious (eg. for options to "Level Up").
The "Creature List" window, when undocked, will automatically show it's full columns. Many weren't aware of the wealth of info available there - especially used in-game.
The initial "Preferences" window can now remember your last choice, and you can configure it to not show up initially, for quicker RPM startups.
Correct use of "Level Up" is now more obvious.
The "Action" window is being expanded to present more options. "Group" checks will be possible (eg. everyone in the group does a "spot" check), as well as a "Quick check" (eg. a spellcaster will keep their spell casting as their major action selection, whilst being forced to perform a quick check on "Concentration").

Other touch-ups are done as required. There's obviously a lot more items on the list, but right now I'm focussing on polish for the standard character races, classes, "sub classes" and templates.

If you (and a couple others who've been helpful) desire a private release to check out progress, just let me know, with a couple of days warning.
Full public releases cost a lot of regression testing with the major work happening.

Regards,


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 4, 2002)

Sounds good!  I'm especially interested to see the real templates - "celestial", etc.

"You've got mail"


----------



## The.Cegorach (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: The evolving beta*

As promised, I'm moving my comments from email to here.

First, something I'd like to see added is a point-buy option.  Like templates, I suppose, it's something that should be there, but no one's bothered to mention or show interest in.  For the record, though, I plan on using it in a campaign, and for NPCs as well, so I'd like to have it available as part of the Creature creation by Wizard process.

Also, it'd be nice when (during the Creature Creation Wizard) viewing feats during the level up process to have some additonal info displayed for the feats:  the SRD description isn't necessary, but even pre-reqs would be nice.  

And then the minor nitpicks/possible errors:

*  The half-orc doesn't have any racial qualities listed in the Creation by Wizard process.

*  Your first sample creature listed, Gruther the Goblin, is an Asn5, with no other classes.  Is this because you simply put that in as an example?  What I'm getting at is that ol' Gruther doesn't meet the pre-reqs for the Assassin PrC--should RPM catch that, or was that a case of you over-riding the engine?

*  I started creating a dwarven creature, then cancelled this, and began work on a half-orc, in both cases using the Creation by Wizard.  Sub-races listed were those of dwarves, rather than the blank it should have been, as if RPM hadn't cleared the sub-race data field when I cancelled the first creature.

*  I'd like to second the request to *not* have the 'standard' equipment forcibly re-added to a creature being created in the Wizard.  If I take the frickin' longsword off of a creature, it'd be nice if it stayed that way.  *grin*

*  Still in the creation by Wizard:  the javelin of lightning's description says it deals 5d6 damage; when equipped, it's listed as 1d6, presumably that of a normal, unchanted javelin.

*  Did you know RPM not only allows you to equip a char with multiple suits of armor, it allows them to stack?  *grin*   "Why, yes, Bob the fighter /does/ have chainmail on under his plate--and a suit of leather, to boot!"  Hehehehe

*  Shields aren't allow any magical properties in RPM, though they should be, only bonuses (and I thought those were only supposed to go up to +5, with the max of +10 being for additional properties rated as bonuses).  I could easily be wrong on the latter point.

*  Last, there were a few places where Alt-G didn't bring up the guide.  I'll have to pay more attention to this to see under what conditions it occurs.


Off to work for now; I'll keep poking about later tonight.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 5, 2002)

Still hard at work breaking RPM!

* Half-orc racial base scores set Wis to 8 instead of 10
* Gnome racial base scores set Cha to 0 instead of 10
* Half-elf racial base scores set Dex to 13 instead of 11
* Half-elf racial base scores set Con to 8 instead of 10
* When creating a half-orc with no class levels, RPM gave me 2 ranks of Spot and a +2 inherent bonus to spot, for a total of +2 (!)
* The half-orc without class levels was given automatic proficiency in armor, weapons, and shields
* As mentioned above, half-orcs lack the special quality, "Orc Blood"
* Feature request: default name for attacks as weapon name instead of "AttackN"
(--begin leveling half-orc up--)
* During the leveling process, the half-orc also appears to have gained Alertness as a bonus feat.  This may explain the +2 inherentbonus to Spot, but it shouldn't be there - and it doesn't give the bonus to Listen checks.  The 2 ranks disappeared, BTW.
* The Will save on the half-orc is wrong - either it doesn't include Iron Will (as I suspect), or it doesn't knowthat aristocrats have good Will saves.
* The javelin's damage is wrong - it only has 1d6 damage, despite Str 13.


----------



## Cergorach (Feb 5, 2002)

*looks up at The.Cegorach*
How annoyingly similar...

Pointbuy is an optional rule and should not be a priority. RPM is  not a character creation tool, i think that PCGEN would be more  appropriat. The same goes for info on feats during character creation, one is  supposed to know which feats one needs/wants.

Luke could you please explain how the subclasses/subraces are  working? (yes i would love to play with your current version ;-)
My gaming group and myself have come to an understanding regarding  the use of the laptop at the gaming table. For now we/i will use it for  combats, when no combats (or stressfull situations) are at hand the laptop  will be put aside. The main reason being is that the laptop is a bit  distracting when used in roleplaying (my fault), my players are mostly  enthausiastic about the laptop as a combat manager, even with the obvious  shortcommings of RPM at the moment (no offense Luke). I'm certain that when i get a  better laptop (higher resolution and a mousepad that actually works) RPM  will become more usefull, and ofcourse the improvements that Luke is  making daily to RPM. Anyone else want to share gaming experiences/tips about the  use of electronic aids at the gaming table?

Oh, before i forget how is the database structure? Is this the  final version of the structure (no more changes to the structure)?


----------



## Albereth (Feb 5, 2002)

I decided to start seriously looking at this also, been following it for quite some time. Here are some questions/problems I have run into.

Tried to create my first character last night. It is a 6th level Human Monk.

1) With a dexterity of 17, he should have more than an Initiative Bonus of 0 as it shows up in the Statblock. Where is the Init Bonus calculated and displayed from?

2) When using the wizard to create this character it would not allow me to remove the longsword from his hands. I would delete the record (weapon record) and as soon as I would save the changes it would pop right back in again.

3) Does the program figure the synergy bonuses for skills? I noticed that 3 of the skills were 2 points lower than they should be and this was due to no synergy bonus.

4) How does one go about adding in the Unarmed attack and the correct BAB sequence for this. I would have thought with the monk being in the database it would have the appropriate information but alas it appears not to.

5) I went back and deleted the record for the monk and tried entering it again starting at level 0 as stated earlier in this thread.  When I did that I went to level up to take him to 1st level and all of the skills are red.  It does not appear to allow this monk to have any skills.

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 5, 2002)

I'll try to help - it may save Luke a few minutes. 

2. It's been fixed in Luke's version.
3. No, it doesn't - though it might show up when used in-game.  (I'm a little fuzzy on it, but I asked the same question)
5. I think this bug has been fixed in the laetst (unreleased) version; I brought it up to Luke earlier.


----------



## Luke (Feb 6, 2002)

*Re: The evolving beta, and some answers to the above posts*

My very, very latest (personal) version now processes stacking bonuses correctly, and also creates enchantment bonus modifiers for armor and shields. With those 2 things in mind, I'll address the issues raised above...



> *something I'd like to see added is a point-buy option*



Yes. I'm in favour of that too. It may wait till after the beta though.


> *it'd be nice when (during the Creature Creation Wizard) viewing feats during the level up process to have some additonal info displayed for the feats
> *



Yes, and the same for skills, classes, items etc etc. I plan on those, but after release 1.


> *The half-orc doesn't have any racial qualities listed
> *



Was true. There's nothing very special to list in the game mechanics area.


> *Gruther the Goblin, is an Asn5, with no other classes. Is this because you simply put that in as an example?
> *



Yes. When you go to "Level Up" you see that the Asn class is technically not qualified for. RPM will  warn you, but still let you...


> *I'd like to second the request to *not* have the 'standard' equipment forcibly re-added to a creature being created in the Wizard.
> *



Yep. I *do* need to do this with natural attacks and weapons, but I'll find a way to ignore other weapons.


> *the javelin of lightning's description says it deals 5d6 damage; when equipped, it's listed as 1d6
> *



This is correct. The javelin is still a 1d6 piercing weapon. As per it's description, it's ability to transform itself into a 5d6 lightning bolt (when thrown) is a very different situation. From a game mechanics perspective, it needs a little script code to *transform* it into a lightning bolt. It essentially becomes a different weapon altogether.


> *Did you know RPM not only allows you to equip a char with multiple suits of armor, it allows them to stack? *grin* "Why, yes, Bob the fighter /does/ have chainmail on under his plate--and a suit of leather, to boot!" Hehehehe
> *



Yes - and I'm not changing it. I've just been playing with a character that is wearing +2 leather over their chain shirt. With the stacking bonuses and the armor enchantment working correctly, you still get the +2 benefit from the leather, even if the leather itself is redundant due to the chainmail shirt  Seems fair to me... At the very least, RPM doesn't just add them altogether anymore, with the stacking correctly applied.


> *Shields aren't allow any magical properties in RPM, though they should be, only bonuses (and I thought those were only supposed to go up to +5, with the max of +10 being for additional properties rated as bonuses).
> *



Now they do. If your house rules allow you to go past +5, that's fine. Correct stacking now ensures that you get the correct maximum total.


> *there were a few places where Alt-G didn't bring up the guide
> *



Probably where you were in a modal screen (can't click outside of the window).
------------------


> * Issues mentioned with racial base scores for half-orc, gnome, half-elf etc.
> *



Simple data entry. Half-Orc and half-elf is actually correct, as per the SRD.


> * When creating a half-orc with no class levels, RPM gave me 2 ranks of Spot and a +2 inherent bonus to spot, for a total of +2 (!)
> *



Well, SRD says +2 racial spot and listen for orcs and half-orcs. PHB says nothing for half-orc. SRD makes sense, or does it?
Those 2 ranks are mis-reported (badly worded) in the wizard, and aren't seen after the wizard is completed.


> *Half-Orcs: Alertness, +2 listen, and feats for armor, weapons and shields, and Iron Will.
> *



"Alertness" is as per the SRD (probably more correct than the PHB, since it takes a more universal approach to racial qualities, whereas the PHB is more a direct outgrowth of 2nd ed D&D). I've added the +2 listen, and the weapon/armor/shield proficiencies probably only appeared after you started playing with class levels.
"Iron Will" fixed.


> *The javelin's damage is wrong - it only has 1d6 damage, despite Str 13.
> *



That was because the javelin is listed as a range attack. Too bad there's no "Mighty" Javelin. Just goes to show: we're all human. When a program is wrong, it's because it was programmed that way by a human 


> *How is the database structure? Is this the final version of the structure (no more changes to the structure)?
> *



Very, very close to being complete.


> *Initiative Bonus of 0 as it shows up in the Statblock
> -----------------
> *



A simple, stupid mistake. Sorry about that. Will be fixed, and also displayed on the main screen.


> *Does the program figure the synergy bonuses for skills? I noticed that 3 of the skills were 2 points lower than they should be and this was due to no synergy bonus.
> *



Synergy bonuses, and a whole lot more, appear in-game, via the "Execute Action" window.


> *How does one go about adding in the Unarmed attack and the correct BAB sequence for this. I would have thought with the monk being in the database it would have the appropriate information but alas it appears not to.
> *



You should have found that the full monk attack was automatically calculated for you (in your version, I think...).
You may have been confused in that the "UseFlurryOfBlows" option wasn't invoked. This gives you the extra attack with the reduced to hit.
Lastly, I haven't yet coded the "FlurryOfBlows" attack modifiers for when that option is selected, and the attack is with a "monk weapon" 

------------------

I'm trying to get the private release cleaned up for those who've requested it. Although I'm more keen on the core RPG engine issues than the simple data entry ones, please continue to report anything, and I'll clean as I go...

Thanks for the feedback guys!!


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 6, 2002)

Luke said:
			
		

> *Well, SRD says +2 racial spot and listen for orcs and half-orcs. PHB says nothing for half-orc. SRD makes sense, or does it?
> Those 2 ranks are mis-reported (badly worded) in the wizard, and aren't seen after the wizard is completed.*





			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *"Alertness" is as per the SRD (probably more correct than the PHB, since it takes a more universal approach to racial qualities, whereas the PHB is more a direct outgrowth of 2nd ed D&D). I've added the +2 listen, and the weapon/armor/shield proficiencies probably only appeared after you started playing with class levels.
> "Iron Will" fixed.*




The SRD doesn't say +2 racial bonus to Spot and Listen - it gives them Alertness, which most players replace wuith a different feat.  It's their "starting package", just like greataxe and javelin.

The proficiencies appeared before I added any levels at all, for some reason.

Quick question, Luke - how easy is it to add levels to 1-HD monsters other than core PC classes (e.g. aasimar, orcs)?


----------



## Velik (Feb 6, 2002)

CRGreathouse,

You should just be able to give them more race levels, either by adding levels or the level up button


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 7, 2002)

Velik - that's not exactly my question.  Take an aasimar, for example - d8 HD, +2 base saves (Fort, Ref, Will), etc.  It's a template monster, like orcs and elves, so taking a class level *replaces* its "Outsider" level.  Thus, a first-level fighter aasimar has a Fort save of 2+Con modifier instead of 4+Con modifier, and has 1d10+_ HD instead of 1d8+1d10+_ HD.

I just wanted to know if RPM knows this.


----------



## Luke (Feb 7, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Velik - that's not exactly my question.  Take an aasimar, for example - d8 HD, +2 base saves (Fort, Ref, Will), etc.  It's a template monster, like orcs and elves, so taking a class level *replaces* its "Outsider" level.  Thus, a first-level fighter aasimar has a Fort save of 2+Con modifier instead of 4+Con modifier, and has 1d10+_ HD instead of 1d8+1d10+_ HD.
> 
> I just wanted to know if RPM knows this. *



There are some issues related to racial hit dice, so I'll give you the RPM approach, and my personal take.

*RPM approach*
This is an open, generic D20 system, so you have flexibility, whilst the default should be core rules, as follows:

You choose whether or not there are any racial hit dice, using the "Player Character" checkbox. Perhaps it could be better named, but the hint on it says it all. Obviously, when generating standard player characters, you turn this off (hence the labelling of the checkbox).
If you opt for racial hit dice, the default is as per the template for the racial standard.
A progressed creature could have any amount of racial or class levels.
 RPM will correctly work out all BAB, HD, saves etc. based on the total class levels and racial level (if any). Just like classes, races have their own way of determining what the good saves, HD type, BAB attack columns etc. are. Far as I know, it's all handled correctly.

*My personal take*
I'm very uncertain about using "replaces" as THE rule.
This is an area where the core rules could have been generally more specific, particularly with individual race descriptions.

Dragons are an area where it is handled well. Racial HD levels are clearly linked to dragon age. I personally tend to think that from baby to adulthood, there certainly is a growing "toughness" that would be typically linked to age (as the form of advancement).

The "replaces" would worry me most with an example such as the shaman in the Storm Giant village. Whilst the adults typically run around with 19 HD, the "shaman", with 2 levels of cleric, would be 2 HD!! Just doesn't sound right. Seems like maybe the shaman could have 17HD of racial levels, and 2 of Cleric??

Until we get "hard rules" for how to evolve racial HD properly (as they bothered to do with Dragons), RPM will just give you the flexibility to tweak it how you want, and make sure that all the mechanics numbers come out correctly.

If by "replaces", you mean sacrifice a certain number of racial HD for some total of class levels (as opposed to *no* racial HD), then we're all talking the same language!


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 7, 2002)

Luke said:
			
		

> *The "replaces" would worry me most with an example such as the shaman in the Storm Giant village. Whilst the adults typically run around with 19 HD, the "shaman", with 2 levels of cleric, would be 2 HD!! Just doesn't sound right. Seems like maybe the shaman could have 17HD of racial levels, and 2 of Cleric??*




For D&D (and the rest of the d20 system? I don't know.), "replaces" is the rule - but only for 1-HD monsters.  A tiefling Ftr1 has 1d10 HD, whereas a hobgoblin Ftr1 has 3d8+1d10 HD (IIRC).  These are obviously adjusted for Constitution and Toughness...


----------



## Luke (Feb 7, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> 
> For D&D (and the rest of the d20 system? I don't know.), "replaces" is the rule - but only for 1-HD monsters.  A tiefling Ftr1 has 1d10 HD, whereas a hobgoblin Ftr1 has 3d8+1d10 HD (IIRC).  These are obviously adjusted for Constitution and Toughness... *




Fair enough. This is consistent with maintaining a particular CR level (very roughly), by sacrificing racial HD for class HD.
For a 1st level (as per new character generation), "sacrifice" effectively means "replace", since you only have 1 level to give.

The biggest (sideline) issue to all this, is an accurate represention of overall CR, based on the total of class and race levels. Assuming you accept that classes are balanced against one another for equality, the race levels are a very poor cousin by comparison. The basic difference is that adding race levels doesn't typically give you all the extras you get, as with class levels (eg. level-based class features). Once again, there are exceptions, as with dragons, where you get new/improved features to go with new race levels.

My personal take is that a *general* race-based approach to new/improved racial features that are race-level-based would go a long way to rounding out the core rules.
Of course, as with dragons again, this places a general layer of complexity that screams for computer assistence when DMs and publishers create their adventures, which is never an accepted pre-requisite for playing D&D 
... and I'm also responding to a pen and paper fan...


----------



## CRGreathouse (Feb 7, 2002)

Speaking of dragons, I've been putting some serious hours into my dragon generator - 27 varieties of dragon, plus HD advancement, adjustable stats, etc.  I'm working on templates next.  Hopefully, this will give me something of a background for understanding the issues involved!  

http://mwtools.thyle.net/d_gen.html


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## mabreaux (Feb 7, 2002)

I believe that templates would be a great boon to the program, like the afore memtioned, half dragon, and vampires examples, which I use in my campaign currently.


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 7, 2002)

My priorities at the moment: dracolich, fiendish, half-fiend, ?.  Of course, I'm open to suggestions...


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## Cergorach (Feb 7, 2002)

Luke said:
			
		

> *
> The "replaces" would worry me most with an example such as the shaman in the Storm Giant village. Whilst the adults typically run around with 19 HD, the "shaman", with 2 levels of cleric, would be 2 HD!! Just doesn't sound right. Seems like maybe the shaman could have 17HD of racial levels, and 2 of Cleric??
> *




I could be wrong, but wouldn't it be a 19HD Giant with 2 levels of Cleric? Atleast that's how i read the rules.

"Replaces" should only work for 1-HD creatures.

I'm curous how the fiendish/halfdragon/vampire would work in RPM...


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## Luke (Feb 7, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I could be wrong, but wouldn't it be a 19HD Giant with 2 levels of Cleric? Atleast that's how i read the rules.
> "Replaces" should only work for 1-HD creatures.
> *



I'm not sure it really matters. This is the way RPM works by default, though the D20/D&D system allows you advance as you wish, and pretty much do what you want.
I think the main point is that when you create characters, every player is put on an even level (ie. CR=1), so you sacrifice a race level to get your class level. Really, nothing stops you from being a first level character with 1HD in some race (assuming that there aren't some very special abilities that effectively give you a CR > 1 ).
From a game mechanics point of view, when I look at the D20 game system in general, and the PHB specifically, I get the feeling that the PHB was done in a style that gave you an easier transition from 2nd edition D&D, whereas the generic D20 system paints a more complete picture.
A recent main page news item detailed an interview with Monte Cooke on the origins of 3rd ed, and asked what he might do differently, given the chance to start again. Most of the answer centered around the point that he was surprised how well the community took to the fundamental changes that were introduced. To my mind, the PHB was first off the shelf, and by the time we get to the DMG, you can already see the evolution. I suspect that, were we to start again, you wouldn't even see the "standard races restriction" for player characters !!!



> *I'm curous how the fiendish/halfdragon/vampire would work in RPM... *



Very well. You can choose multiple templates now. The templates appear in the Races screen (with abilities, skills, items (phylactory for Lich?)) etc, and RPM just adds them up together, much as it does for the abilities of multi-class characters.
Lycanthrop is a bit of a pain, where you effectively need a SubRace, as you get with your normal race.
All these are quite do-able, with time being the most precious commodity. I've only got "half-celestial" decently coded up/configured so far...


----------



## Cergorach (Feb 8, 2002)

Hmmm... Me want! Me Want! ;-)
So Luke, when might we 'play' with your version of RPM?


----------



## Luke (Feb 9, 2002)

*Private release*



			
				Cergorach said:
			
		

> *Hmmm... Me want! Me Want! ;-)
> So Luke, when might we 'play' with your version of RPM? *



Okay. I'll tidy it up and make it available to you (and a couple of others) by tomorrow.

Are there 2 different Cergoraches? Which is your e-mail?

Regards,


----------



## noisulli (Feb 9, 2002)

*Saving data before applying updates*

The only problem I found with applying your updates was that all the information I had started to add into the database and any new monsters I had added to the database was overwriten and lost couldnt there be some way to merge the new files with the currently existing old files?


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## Cergorach (Feb 9, 2002)

*Re: Private release*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *
> Okay. I'll tidy it up and make it available to you (and a couple of others) by tomorrow.
> 
> Are there 2 different Cergoraches? Which is your e-mail?
> ...




Excellent!

There is only one Cergorach, there is a The.Cegorach, but he's a copy cat. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! *starts hunting with his sword*

I've got two email adresses:
Cergorach@Cable.A2000.nl
R.van.Vliet@TheHelix.nl


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 9, 2002)

.


----------



## Luke (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: Private release*



> *
> Okay. I'll tidy it up and make it available to you (and a couple of others) by tomorrow.
> *




Done. Enjoy guys, and let me know how you go.


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 10, 2002)

OK, I'm going at it again.

* Feats: The interface is nice, and I like it when it tells me I'm out of feats but lets me add them anyway.  I'd like it much better if it only told me I was out of feats when I actually was - a human Ftr1 should have 3 feats.
* When leveling a human Ftr from 1st to 2nd, it listed all skills as exclusive skills.
* Important suggestion: multiples of items.  It's not bad to add a week's rations by clicking 7 times, but what if I had more?  What about the scholar with 100 sheets of parchment?
* Initiative, saves, and skills don't have "+" (Jump 5 instead of +5)
* Artisan's tools aren't differentiated and don't provide a bonus
* I'm having trouble refereshing the data - the skills are correct on the Skills tab, but not on the stat block (I changed them) - and pressing "Refresh data" doesn't do anything for that.  On the Skills tab, I pressed "post edit" and "refresh data", but to no avail.
* Gold isn't included in the total weight carried, AFAIK - important when you have 1,000 gp weighing 20 pounds
* There's no way to add coins of other types (that I can see) - important for level 1 characters
* Is there a way to hide the automatic feats in the stat block?


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## Cergorach (Feb 10, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> * Important suggestion: multiples of items.  It's not bad to add a week's rations by clicking 7 times, but what if I had more?  What about the scholar with 100 sheets of parchment?
> *




Try this:
In the items Tab in the Creatures Screen, select on the items Qty and fill in the quantity, ce simple ;-)


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 11, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *In the items Tab in the Creatures Screen, select on the items Qty and fill in the quantity, ce simple ;-) *




OK, in that case:

* Add quantity to the initial selection screen
* Change the weight calculation to include multiples (it doesn't)


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## Luke (Feb 14, 2002)

> *
> * Feats: ... a human Ftr1 should have 3 feats.
> *



And so it should have. Perhaps an issue because you were in "In-Game" mode, and not in the default "Preparation" mode. If, so, you should see it work in the next release. The only difference is that "in-game" mode won't constantly update the statblock.


> *
> * When leveling a human Ftr from 1st to 2nd, it listed all skills as exclusive skills.
> *



I've seen this occasionally in the past, and will test for it. Are you sure you didn't have "Race" selected as the class at the time?


> *
> * Important suggestion: multiples of items.  It's not bad to add a week's rations by clicking 7 times, but what if I had more?  What about the scholar with 100 sheets of parchment?
> *



Fixed up weight/value for multiple items, with spin controls to change them.


> *
> * Initiative, saves, and skills don't have "+" (Jump 5 instead of +5)
> *



This is for statblock? Will put that "+" in...


> *
> * Artisan's tools aren't differentiated and don't provide a bonus
> *



Where appropriate, the option does appear in-game, but is not automatic. For example, you may perform an alchemist check, but may not have the lab handy.


> *
> * I'm having trouble refereshing the data...
> *



See "mode" above. Should be fixed.


> *
> * Gold isn't included in the total weight carried, AFAIK - important when you have 1,000 gp weighing 20 pounds
> *



Done. There are now separate entries for "carried" and "Stored" gold.


> *
> * There's no way to add coins of other types (that I can see) - important for level 1 characters
> *



Not happy with entries for all the different monetary units. Too much screen real-estate, and item values are always in gp. I *do* now let you work with (enter) decimal values got gp, so you get a work around for the "brief" stay on 1st level.


> *
> * Is there a way to hide the automatic feats in the stat block? *



Mentioned previously. Not yet.

Regards,


----------



## Fu-Man Chu (Feb 14, 2002)

*Still possible for "private" copy?*

Hey Luke, this is Andrew (posting here now instead of the Message board).  I had a few quick questions:

1) Instead of the current tile mapper, have you considered using Dungeoncrafter.com? They seem to have a pretty good program with a large number of tilesets already available online. 

2) For skills that require a further selection (such as Craft and Profession), is the best way to just create new skills rather than place a modifer after adding the "base skill" to a character? For instance, adding Profession (Fisher) and Profession (Miner) as separate skills? 

3) Is it possible now to save "house rules"/changes between the different updates?  If not, is that planned to be included in the next version?


----------



## Luke (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: Still possible for "private" copy?*



> *
> 1) Instead of the current tile mapper, have you considered using Dungeoncrafter.com? They seem to have a pretty good program with a large number of tilesets already available online.
> *



DungeonCrafter is a top  recommendation to create your maps. You them simply import the BMP into RPM. You can also do this with CC2, and other mapping programs.
The point of the current tilemapper is that I have source code, and can do other things, such as multi-player "fog-of-war" in the future.


> *
> 2) For skills that require a further selection (such as Craft and Profession), is the best way to just create new skills rather than place a modifer after adding the "base skill" to a character? For instance, adding Profession (Fisher) and Profession (Miner) as separate skills?
> *



That's exactly what happens. Under "Level Up", you enter the subtype, and add point(s). If it's a new subtype, it is entered as a new skill.


> *
> 3) Is it possible now to save "house rules"/changes between the different updates?  If not, is that planned to be included in the next version? *



I'm planning to add an import/export "Source" soon, so you can do this relatively easily.


----------



## Luke (Feb 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: Still possible for "private" copy?*

I'm planning on a public release within the next day or so, if anyone has specific suggestions for quick inclusion.

The items already mentioned in this thread are, of course, already included.

Regards,


----------



## Fu-Man Chu (Feb 18, 2002)

*Bugs?*

Hey Luke, been playing around with your version of RPM and a few other things I've noticed.

1) When creating a new character, I can drop an unused skill's rating into negative ranks to gain extra skill points.  I think you should put the lower limit on ranks as 0.

2) I'm not sure if this is true for all weapons, but the description of the dwarven waraxe is the dagger's description.

3) How do you determine a weapon to be used two handed and therefore gain the 1.5 Str bonus to damage?  I tried creating a dwarven barbarian with a Greataxe but i couldn't figure out how to turn the two hand option on.

4) Interesting error -- when I was trying to work on the html of the report output and also clicked on generate report of the current creature, I got an error which prompted me to quit in order to preserve the integrity of the database.

5) I'm willing to work on the html outputs and make them even more user friendly, how would you like me to get the changes to you?


----------



## Luke (Feb 19, 2002)

*Re: Bugs?*



			
				Fu-Man Chu said:
			
		

> *Hey Luke, been playing around with your version ...*




Thanks. I'll look into these points for the release.

You can simply e-mail me the files from your "reports" sub-directory, to pass on any new reports you create.

Regards,


----------



## Luke (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Beta release*

I've been working pretty hard on what I've always thought as been the real reason I started work on RPM.

This is mostly concerned with in-game management, where RPM does almost all that can be done to automate the rules mechanics, and provide the best assistance with managing all the myriad rules.
The latest work is largely as a result of play testing over the gaming table - getting the features in that are the biggest help at the gaming table, and provide the least intrusive help to help game flow.

The latest work revolves around the following:
- Providing a game log window that show the history of results.
- Quicker editing of initiative rolls in combat.
- Recording all actions and targets selected from round to round.
- Action attack selections to show all the attackers modifiers, and all the defenders AC modifiers, adjusted as appropriate for the current conditions. Combat is then fully resolved.
- Action skill selections to show all the relevant modifiers, including DC selections and theor modifiers.
- Action skill selections that have opposed checks  to show the modifiers and rolls for both sides, and resolve the results.
- Action selections of spells to show available spells and process them correctly (with saves for targets), and also keep track of durations, with opportunity to code spells for full automation (eg. "Cat's Grace" raises the Dex of the target for the duration of the spell).
- Show the effects of duration spells in the "Conditions Status" for creatures.

I'm not aware of any other utility that even comes close to doing all this, so I appreciate that the full extent of what I'm trying to describe might be a bit difficult to appreciate.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, this is part of the currently working vision...
- Wizard selects "Cast Spell" after targeting the fighter, and chooses "Cat's Grace" from his spell list.
- Since the spell is "Harmless" and has no save, the action proceeds directly to applying the spell's code, which adds a temporary Dex modifier to the fighter.
- Later work would first recognise that the spell produces an attack of opportunity, and ask if anyone is going to attempt a hit on the wizard first. For any hits made, a concentration check screen would automatically pop up, with a chance to spoil the spell.
- The fighter's dex would be automatically raised, and his AC, along with his bow attack, initiative modifier (and all other Dex related effects), will automatically see the resulting effects.
- When the "Cat's Grace" expires, the effects are automatcially filtered through.

What I'm thinking of, is to provide some screenshots of the work-in-progress, to make it clearer, and get people's opinions on my ideas. It's a LOT of work, so I'm also interested in finding out if continuing to make the effort is worth it.

Let me know if you have opinions, or think you may get some benefit of screenshots with explanations.

Regards,


----------



## Luke (Mar 15, 2002)

As per another thread, the beta has a further "small" delay to incorporate in-game automation of processing actions.

This is about automatically processing attacks, skill checks, spell casting etc. It will include include targeting (both single, and multiple targets, as for fireball area affects, or attempting to "Hide" from several "Spot" checks).

Additionally, the "Damage" window is being enhanced, to correctly support damaging of creatures. As an example a block of damage could include standard weapon damage, type of damage, critical threat damage, and poison. This is important, so that RPM can automatically handle the following types of situations:
- Creatures that don't include critical threat damage.
- Skeletons getting half damage from certain weapon types.
- Creatures with damage resistance ignoring a certain amount of damage.
- Creatures that may be resistant to cold, electricity, or other damage.
- Subdual options, and things such as poison affecting things other than straight hit points.
Whilst the damage window may look more complicated than a simplistic "Enter Hp Damage" window, RPM can actually build it up for you, and automatically process it. The only reason for even showing the dialog is so that you can override things, such as damage rolls, before pressing "Ok".

In all, a pretty exciting time for RPM. I've put a few lines of script behind some spells (such as "Cats Grace" or "Mage Armor"), and tested casting it on party members. It's pretty cool when the AC from "Mage Armor" increases less than you expected, but closer examination reveals that RPM correctly applied the stacking rules!!!


----------



## Cergorach (Mar 16, 2002)

Hi Luke, it's been a while, sorry about that.

I've got my new laptop up and running *drool*, and have installed the 'new' RPM. Did a test run with it last week and my players are really happy with it. I used it to run an encounter with 3 Mind Flayers and 5 Grimlocks (bar7) against a 13th level party. The only problem was that i had to manually add a lot of info to the notes section. This could probably have been avoided if i had spent some time entering the information into the database, but at the time i didn't really have that time. I'm now planning an encounter with a Black Dragon and am going to start with editing the info in the database, let's see how much RPM can do ;-)

I love the ability to copy a creature from current creature, that saved me so much time last week!

Log window is excellent, can it save to file so you can reference it later? The automation of combat sounds good, only problem is that i probably wouldn't use it in game untill it's fully finised, i would not want to risk it that RPM messed up something that gets one of my players killed in the end. I will use it to test combat, just to get a feeling of an encounter.

How are you handling whether creatures are threathened or not? Are you going to use a coordinates system? I have some thoughts on this, but before spending an hour trying to explain them, are such thought appreciated and usefull?

*Use of RPM in both a fully managed and partially managed way:*
What my players would like to see is that they can still throw their own dice (that's part of the kick ;-) and let RPM use those results to calculate the correct results (so that the bonuses of that vorpal sword they don't know anything about are added correctly). What mode would this be? I'm guessing fully managed, but does that allow of editing of results (or more corectly, giving it data)?

The two weapon attack looks sound, i was afrai that it would be troubl. How are you handeling multiple natural attacks? Especially at high BAB, then RPM says that the creature gets multiple attacks, but because they are only using natural attacks they should only get a single attack with each natural weapon.

In all the future of RPM is burning bright! How is it going with the amount of responses you get? Still abysmal?

Regards,

Mr.C


----------



## Luke (Mar 18, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *I've got my new laptop up and running *drool*, and have installed the 'new' RPM. Did a test run with it last week and my players are really happy with it. I used it to run an encounter with 3 Mind Flayers and 5 Grimlocks (bar7) against a 13th level party.
> ... let's see how much RPM can do ;-)*




You'll find the next release of RPM *very* useful for running encounters. It'll do spell casting, skill checks and attacks.
The attacks and opposed skill checks can be quite clever. For example, if you target several opponents, and try the "Hide" skill, RPM will automatically do the check against each creature's  "Spot" skill.
- With spells, the saving throws and modifiers are viewable.
- With attacks, RPM will auto-roll attacks against the opponent AC.
- You can override with manual dice rolls.
- You can see all the attack an all the AC modifiers. 
- RPM will pop up damage windows that can show different types of damage (eg. critical threat damage, as well as standard damage). Once again, you can enter your own rolls.



> *I love the ability to copy a creature from current creature, that saved me so much time last week!*



Try the new "Add Creature by Grid list". You can set up a combat of a dozen elves against a dozen orcs in a handful of mouse clicks!
If you're happy to go with standard armor and weapons for them, there's virtually nothing much you have to do.



> *Log window is excellent, can it save to file so you can reference it later? The automation of combat sounds good, only problem is that i probably wouldn't use it in game untill it's fully finised, i would not want to risk it that RPM messed up something that gets one of my players killed in the end. I will use it to test combat, just to get a feeling of an encounter.*




Fair enough. RPM shows you all modifiers every step of the way, though, so it's hard to go wrong.
At worst, you just edit the Hp damage to fix a mistake.


> *
> How are you handling whether creatures are threathened or not? Are you going to use a coordinates system? I have some thoughts on this, but before spending an hour trying to explain them, are such thought appreciated and usefull?
> *



Thoughts are appreciated and useful. If by "threatened", you mean AOO, it's up to the DM/Players to make the extra attack (initially). I've gone away from *needing* to use the BattleMap. From what I can work out, many seem happy just working from a list using other little utilities. In such cases, RPM won't know the distances, and automation is difficult.
As is standard with RPM, you don't get trapped into a "wizard style" forcing of a particular order of actions. This means that you can have several creatures "in the middle" of their actions, with a quick button press to return you to the "current turn" creature. Ths makes it easy to do AOO etc.



> *
> Use of RPM in both a fully managed and partially managed way:
> What my players would like to see is that they can still throw their own dice (that's part of the kick ;-) and let RPM use those results to calculate the correct results (so that the bonuses of that vorpal sword they don't know anything about are added correctly). What mode would this be? I'm guessing fully managed, but does that allow of editing of results (or more corectly, giving it data)?*




As above, you can *always* use your own dice 
Unknown vorpal bonuses are easily done with a DM adjustment. This works particularly well with RPM, since the players can just tell you their D20 roll (in fully managed mode), and they get an end result.
Partially managed simply means that when 2 creatures oppose each other, one of them is not managed by RPM (as, for example, when a DM has all his creatures entered, but the player characters aren't enetered). In such cases, RPM can only automate one side of the opposition. For example, the attack normally has to hit modifiers in the top half on the screen, and AC modifiers in the bottom half. If the defender isn't entered into RPM, you need to manually enter in the final AC, and the attack can proceed as normal.
As another example, If you try the "Hide" skill, RPM might not have the stats for the creature attempting the "Spot", so you need to manually enter in the finally adjusted spot roll (or simply view the roll/final adjustment, and leave it at that.



> *
> The two weapon attack looks sound, i was afrai that it would be troubl. How are you handeling multiple natural attacks? Especially at high BAB, then RPM says that the creature gets multiple attacks, but because they are only using natural attacks they should only get a single attack with each natural weapon.
> *



Haven't yet completed the natural weapons and associated feats yet, but it all fits in pretty simply to the RPM D20 framework. Things like this are just about having enough tme now.



> *
> In all the future of RPM is burning bright! How is it going with the amount of responses you get? Still abysmal?
> *



Not abysmal, but not good. In all, it may be naive of me to think that people can respond on the basis of screenshots. It's probably the sort of thing that needs a "hands on" play.


----------



## Nunya (Mar 19, 2002)

*Feedback*

Luke,

I think you're right regarding why the feedback is minimal.  As far as myself, I just can't justify entering enough information to make RPM useful for my campaign with the knowledge that it will get trompped upon when the beta is released with the new DB schema.

I played with it for a few hours and added a couple of my players to the system to see how it all worked.  I added a few items, etc.  I like what I see, but I just don't have the time to enter the information twice.  How about an export/import feature that can be used to transfer the information?  XML would be really nice..


----------



## Luke (Mar 23, 2002)

*Import/Export and the "Outlook Preview"*



			
				Nunya said:
			
		

> *Luke,
> 
> I think you're right regarding why the feedback is minimal.  As far as myself, I just can't justify entering enough information to make RPM useful for my campaign with the knowledge that it will get trompped upon when the beta is released with the new DB schema.
> 
> I played with it for a few hours and added a couple of my players to the system to see how it all worked.  I added a few items, etc.  I like what I see, but I just don't have the time to enter the information twice.  How about an export/import feature that can be used to transfer the information?  XML would be really nice..  *




I hear you. The ability to import/export is one of the three major issues being addressed.
I'm hard at work with it now, and from the next release on, this should be a fixed issue.

*There's an excellent preview of the new Outlook style buttons and Campaign Planner/Calendar/Journal* at http://www.enworld.org/roleplayingmaster


----------



## Fu-Man Chu (Mar 23, 2002)

*Outlook style*

As I have used Outlook as my second brain for well over 3 years now, I like the new look a whole lot. I haven't tested it yet (I'm still downloading the newest update -- quite a while on my 28.8 connection) so I'm not sure what it's quite like exactly -- but the screen shot looks cool.  

One thing I'm wondering is how difficult it is to play with the fundamentals of the calendar -- for instance, as my campaign is run in Greyhawk, how difficult will it be for me to rename and reorganize the months and days of the week to reflect the Greyhawk world's?


----------



## cristiano (Mar 27, 2002)

*Import/Export*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I hear you. The ability to import/export is one of the three major issues being addressed.
> I'm hard at work with it now, and from the next release on, this should be a fixed issue.
> *



*

Hi Luke!
I'm an italian player of D&D 3ed and i tried to use your software. I think that it will be great.
Since i don't find too useful using it for the creatures, for its english language (it's not so simple remembering all the exact translation of the feats, the skill, the special abilities....), I use it for "the ambientation".
What i mean: i use mainly the map interface, with location where i write in italian. I find it useful to switch  fast between a place to another and other things like that.
My question is: since i had to wirte a lot of thing, i was wondering if at the next release i have to rewrite all. If so it would be for me absurd redoing such  work every time  new release will be released.

Another thing is that i have too much database errors (the ones that suggest you to exit the program). Is normal?

Finally, if there is a simple way to put inside the system the translation, i offer me to make it to italian.

Cristiano*


----------



## Luke (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Outlook style*



			
				Fu-Man Chu said:
			
		

> *As I have used Outlook as my second brain for well over 3 years now, I like the new look a whole lot.*



Thanks. It should be the easiest "map to the system" yet.

*



			One thing I'm wondering is how difficult it is to play with the fundamentals of the calendar -- for instance, as my campaign is run in Greyhawk, how difficult will it be for me to rename and reorganize the months and days of the week to reflect the Greyhawk world's?
		
Click to expand...


*To be honest, it will be quite a while before I can investigate/implement a generic (non-Gregorian) calendar, where you can define your own world months and days, along with their lengths within a planetary year (are all planets spinning spheres?).
Using standard calendar controls means that I can get basically functionality working quickly, then move on to items of a higher priority.

Regards,


----------



## Luke (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: Import/Export*



			
				cristiano said:
			
		

> *My question is: since i had to wirte a lot of thing, i was wondering if at the next release i have to rewrite all. If so it would be for me absurd redoing such  work every time  new release will be released.*



I've *just* completed work to address this issue. See the post I'm about to enter addressing this, and you can see the preview screenshots showing the flexibility available.

*



			Another thing is that i have too much database errors (the ones that suggest you to exit the program). Is normal?
		
Click to expand...


*I needed to rush the last release, and it was less stable than most. Most of the "I advise you to quit" errors can be safely ignored.

*



			Finally, if there is a simple way to put inside the system the translation, i offer me to make it to italian.
		
Click to expand...


*If I ever get a chance to internationalize RPM, I'll get back to you. The biggest issue (apart from finding translators), is that the RPM screens are typically, densely packed with information. In typical internationalized applications, you need lightly packed screens, since different word equivalents have different lengths in different languages.


----------



## Nunya (Mar 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: Outlook style*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *
> To be honest, it will be quite a while before I can investigate/implement a generic (non-Gregorian) calendar, where you can define your own world months and days, along with their lengths within a planetary year (are all planets spinning spheres?).
> Using standard calendar controls means that I can get basically functionality working quickly, then move on to items of a higher priority.
> 
> Regards, *




Luke, how about contacting the WeatherMaster folks to see if they'd be willing to allow some kind of integration interface for the people using that for their calendering/weather creating.  It supports world maps and has a daily journal too.

Thanks for the improved import/export additions.  I'm just now retrieving the latest update so I don't have any feedback..yet.


----------



## Nunya (Mar 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: Import/Export*

Ok, I thought that you had a new release.  Now I understand it is just screen shots for our viewing pleasure until a new release.. 

Waiting patiently... tap..tap..tap..

I didn't see any option for being able to export/import items/spells/feats/etc. that we may have added to the DB.  Will this be available too?


----------



## Luke (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Import/Export*



			
				Nunya said:
			
		

> *I didn't see any option for being able to export/import items/spells/feats/etc. that we may have added to the DB.  Will this be available too? *




It already is in - through the "Source" backup. A "Source", such as "Psionics", contains classes, skills, feats, items, spells (psionic powers) etc, that relate to the specific category.
This is a good way to organize classes, spells, items etc. since you package them up in useful ways.
You could create your packages to match books you've purchased, or specific campaign settings...

Exporting by "User" is a different type of "backup". In this one, you can export anything that *you* have personally edited. For example, if your house rules for the Jump skill, Fireball spell, or the ogre is slightly different, you'll have edited them in some way. Exporting your "User" changes allows you to save your house rules, so you can re-apply them after applying an update.

------------------------------------

Yes, integration with WeatherMaster would make sense. In essence, if you need a specialized calendar, this will probably be your only option for quite a while.
"Integration" would probably mean that there is some way for an external program (like RPM) to make entries in WeatherMaster programmatically.


----------



## Luke (Apr 4, 2002)

*Beta testers and latest features*

*Stability:*
I've accidentally discovered RPM script problems if you have IExplorer 5.x, and fixed up the issues, so look forward to a more stable program in the next release if that's your explorer version.

*Tester's Wanted:*
I'm looking for a few testers that can give me feedback within a week of receiving a private release. I'm very close to the beta release now, and want a few comments on all the latest features.
There's a lot of good stuff in since the last release, and I'm particularly keen to trial the streamlined combat system. I'll be providing a tutorial walkthrough to guide you through a simple combat.
You should see a great improvement with features and ease-of-use. I've done some very focussed work on this.

*Major Features* for pre-beta testers to check out:
- New streamlined combat manager.
- New import/export facilities.
- New "Outlook" side menu buttons.
- New "Outlook" calendar for managing your campaign planner/diary.
- New, super quick creature generator, using the "List Grid".
- Improved stability.
- Improved "Creature List" window. A more standard, integrated and useful tool now.

Thanks,


----------



## Cergorach (Apr 4, 2002)

Sign me up captain!

You can reach me at:
R.van.Vliet@TheHelix.nl


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 4, 2002)

I'll sign up, though I'm not sure how much feedback I'll be able to give.  (I'm getting busy these day, you know... )


----------



## RRakis (Apr 4, 2002)

*Sign me up *

Deffinitly Sign me up.

I am really interested in the Combat section
Keeping tabs on who's about to die and whos turn it is next 

Is it setup so that PC can roll and then have the npc generate automaticly the initiatve ?


----------



## RRakis (Apr 5, 2002)

*Another Quick Easy Feature*

Just an idea for when making a character
What about automaticly adding all the features that everyone can already use. Like  Jump etc to the character when it is created.

So only the skills that you need to add ranks in to get are not initally included


----------



## Luke (Apr 5, 2002)

*Re: Sign me up *



			
				RRakis said:
			
		

> *Deffinitly Sign me up.
> Is it setup so that PC can roll and then have the npc generate automaticly the initiatve ? *



Yep. And that's just the start.

The first decision is whether you will enter both the NPCs and players into RPM, or just the NPCs. Either way works, but RPM can give you the full breakdown for both sides of the fence, if both sides are entered. The new export facilities would make it easy for players to develop their own characters, then quickly import into the DMs machine for fully managed, instant play.

The combat round starts something like:
- Button press rolls initiative for everyone. You may then quickly override the D20 rolls for PCs (or anyone else).
- RPM understands the effects of dexterity, and initiative-related feats etc, and will apply those modifiers to the base D20 roll, to come up with a final initiative order.
- A button press starts the first round, setting everyone to flatfooted, which causes the effects you'd expect.
- If you have surprise, you can "deactivate" surprised creatures, or simply execute ad-hoc actions (attacks, spells, skill checks, whatever) before getting into the encounter proper.
- From there simply go through a cycle of clicking "next character" and selecting an action. RPM understands all the modifiers and will spit up screens for you to review (mostly this is about showing attack modifiers, AC modifiers and damage modifiers). You've got full control, but basically you can just press "Enter", "Enter", "Enter"... to accept the attack rolls and damage.
- Simply repeat for subsequent rounds. RPM will automatically remove the "Flatfooted" state after the first round, but you can always override the flatfooted, or even the active state, with a simple mouse click, on a case by case basis.
- When creatures lose sufficient hitpoints, they automatically become staggered, unconcious, dying or dead (depending on the circumstances), and become "inactive" for further combat.
- When you've whacked the opponents, you press a button to calculate the XP, and assign XP to the victors.
... in a quick nutshell...

 The walkthrough will start from scratch, and have much greater detail, and explanations. 

It's worth confessing that I think prior versions RPM were unwieldly, flowed badly, and buggy, compared to the private release I'm about to make. 

It's reallu only now that it's starting to come together as I initially envisioned it.

Regards,


----------



## Leopold (Apr 5, 2002)

luke if you want to hit a bigger audiance you might try talking to us on the pcgen yahoo group. We are aware of your software and in conjunction with pcgen using your software makes gaming allot easier. Feel free to popin over on our yahoo group and say hello and what you need us to do. I am sure you will have some volunteers. After all, one day we hope to port your program to ours and ours to yours..


----------



## Luke (Apr 5, 2002)

*PCGen and RPM*



			
				Leopold said:
			
		

> *luke if you want to hit a bigger audiance you might try talking to us on the pcgen yahoo group. We are aware of your software and in conjunction with pcgen using your software makes gaming allot easier. Feel free to popin over on our yahoo group and say hello and what you need us to do. I am sure you will have some volunteers. After all, one day we hope to port your program to ours and ours to yours.. *




Hey,
Thanks for the invite!

The PCGen import problem is constantly in my mind, and hearing this helps a lot.

My actual problem is all the non-SRD data in PCGen. I don't have the loose agreement with the copyright owners that you guys have, and you can bet that players importing their PCGen characters into RPM are gonna expect the non-core stuff to all work...

Regardless of difficulties, based on intent, and your invitation, I'll "pop in" in the message boards.

I'm gratified to hear that people are experiencing good things when combining the 2 programs!!

Regards,


----------



## smetzger (Apr 6, 2002)

Hi Luke,

I think you should fix your BDE installation issues for the beta release, e.g. a real install of the BDE instead of local to your program.  So that we can run other BDE programs while your program is running.

*:> Scott


----------



## Fu-Man Chu (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: Beta testers and latest features*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *Tester's Wanted:*
> I'm looking for a few testers that can give me feedback within a week of receiving a private release. I'm very close to the beta release now, and want a few comments on all the latest features.
> There's a lot of good stuff in since the last release, and I'm particularly keen to trial the streamlined combat system. I'll be providing a tutorial walkthrough to guide you through a simple combat.
> You should see a great improvement with features and ease-of-use. I've done some very focussed work on this.




Hey Luke, I'm interested in doing the test for the new release, thanks!


----------



## Luke (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: Another Quick Easy Feature*



			
				RRakis said:
			
		

> *Just an idea for when making a character
> What about automaticly adding all the features that everyone can already use. Like  Jump etc to the character when it is created.
> *



You'll find that actually covered in the tutorial.
When you choose a "Skill" action, a list of all possible skills pops up. This includes both skills that you have ranks in, and untrained skills - covering your full set of options.


----------



## Luke (Apr 7, 2002)

smetzger said:
			
		

> *Hi Luke,
> 
> I think you should fix your BDE installation issues for the beta release, e.g. a real install of the BDE instead of local to your program.  So that we can run other BDE programs while your program is running.
> 
> *:> Scott *



Hi Scott,

I remember this one. My rationale was that I didn't want to over-write any current BDE installations, on the basis that versions and features might change.
This is game software, and I didn't want to possibly interfere with anybody's commercial software.

I'll have to think a bit more about it. It's a shame that full and proper testing of possible external side-effects would take more time than I really have available, but I understand your need !


----------



## Luke (Apr 7, 2002)

*Pre-beta combat tutorial*

Thanks to those who've already responded to the call for pre-beta testing. I'm finalizing the tutorial walkthrough, and preparing the download. 
I'll e-mail you all as soon as the download is available. 

I've decided that a read through the tutorial will give anyone a keen insight into what RPM can do for them, and how it can make your game flow with the best possible computer assistance. So, even for those not involved in the pre-beta test, a preview of the tutorial here 

The combat tutorial is at the heart of why I started RPM in the first place, and I'm hoping
that the pre-beta testers can tell me how well the vision is fulfilled with the current
format.


----------



## smetzger (Apr 8, 2002)

Luke said:
			
		

> *
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I remember this one. My rationale was that I didn't want to over-write any current BDE installations, on the basis that versions and features might change.
> ...




Borland says that if you use an authorized install program that this is not  a problem.  I have two BDE shareware programs that have been in circulation for over 3 yrs and haven't had any reported problems.


----------



## nickT (Apr 15, 2002)

*Cleric Domains*

Hi, 
    The problem is the program is so ***** big, you can wander around for ages playing with this function or that, and after a while you get to assume that it contains EVERYTHING!! I didn't think to look at whether clerics could be assigned domains, I just assumed it did  Sadly you are a victim of your own success 

The Cleric domain thing I regard as important, the templates option I have heard talked about and 'how useful' it is, but I have yet to see anyone using it!

NickT


----------



## Luke (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Cleric Domains*



			
				nickT said:
			
		

> *The Cleric domain thing I regard as important...
> NickT *




It is important, and it is there.

Check out the "Classes" in the Creature window. Next to level, there's a button that typically says "(none)".
When you look at a Wizard class it becomes "School", and when you look at a Cleric class it becomes "Domains".

You simply press the button to choose Domains or a school.
This did seem like the obvious place to have the button.


----------



## Luke (May 6, 2002)

*Campaign management with tree-view*

Probably the weakest feature area of RPM is not providing general campaign management facilities.
The closest you currently get is a comprehensive adventure building capability, which is not the same thing.

I've been toying with a feature that provides a general notes management facility.
It allows you to create a tree of information, storing text and pictures, with word-processing capabilities.
It's fairly comparable to MyInfo, or the codex of DM's Familiar.

In it's infancy stages, I was able to copy and paste the free ENWorld "DaemonForge" setting in about 15 minutes, complete with history, timeline, locations, strongholds and maps.

There's all sorts of add-on features that could go into this, but I'm not sure I even want to include the feature at this stage. I'm supposed to be nailing down the feature set for release 1 of RPM.

On the other hand, there could be a great demand for a capability like this.
Let me know! 

Regards,


----------



## Ds Da Man (May 6, 2002)

Luke, while I didn't sign up for the beta testing yet, I have been playing with your last release. I really would like a comprehensive data (campaign) storage function, although I have just used the adventure building area for it so far. Once again, can't wait to see an upgraded version.


----------



## Cergorach (May 6, 2002)

Hmm...
Interesting. How much work would something like this be to add to RPM? How much would stabilty suffer, how much would RPM 1.0 be delayed because of it? If the answer to the last question is "about a month or less", the I want it!


----------



## Luke (May 7, 2002)

*New campaign management features*



			
				Cergorach said:
			
		

> *Hmm...
> Interesting. How much work would something like this be to add to RPM? How much would stabilty suffer, how much would RPM 1.0 be delayed because of it? If the answer to the last question is "about a month or less", the I want it! *




Okay. The answer is "about a month or less", and stability would be unaffected. I've already got quite a few "yes please" responses, so it's in.

What I'll definitely do is to put in basic functionality. Throwing in lots of add-on features can happen over time, with subsequent releases.

What I've already done can be viewed in the newly redone screenshots available at http://www.enworld.org/roleplayingmaster

Regards,


----------



## DMFTodd (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Campaign management with tree-view*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *It's fairly comparable to MyInfo, or the codex of DM's Familiar.
> *




What you describe might be *similar* to the Codex Tree in DM's Familiar but it's certainly not *comparable*.

The Codex Tree starts as an outline/word-processing tool. 

Then I add the ability to drag-and-drop Spells, Rules, Feats, Skills, Weapons, Equipment, Monsters, PCs, and NPCs to the Codex Tree. You can then double-click any of those in the Tree to instantly open that item. Basically it lets you cross-reference any of the information in DM's Familiar however you like.

The Codex Tree is then integrated with the rest of the program as well. You can setup an encounter by drag-and-dropping monsters and NPCs to the Codex Tree during game prep. In-game, you can then drag that encounter to the Combat Board and have your combat instantly populated with initiative and hit points rolled for all of the monsters.

Lastly, the sub-trees within the Codex Tree can be imported/exported. So if you write an adventure in the Codex Tree you can easily share that with others. If you've dropped any of the items above onto the tree, those are automaticaly exported for you as well. 

From my experience, the outline/word-processing tool is nice but not a great improvement -- Word or MyInfo work just as well. It's the integration with the rest of the tools that make it worthwhile. If you're not going to do the integration, you might as well not add it to the RPM at this point.


----------



## Luke (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: Campaign management with tree-view*



			
				DMFTodd said:
			
		

> *
> The Codex Tree is then integrated with the rest of the program as well. You can setup an encounter by drag-and-dropping monsters and NPCs to the Codex Tree during game prep. In-game, you can then drag that encounter to the Combat Board and have your combat instantly populated with initiative and hit points rolled for all of the monsters.
> 
> Lastly, the sub-trees within the Codex Tree can be imported/exported. So if you write an adventure in the Codex Tree you can easily share that with others. If you've dropped any of the items above onto the tree, those are automaticaly exported for you as well.
> ...




Well, I've had very good response to the idea, so I'm including it immediately.
I'll focus initially on tree-view wordprocessor/graphics -style features, and reserve the option to integrate internal spell/item/race/etc links to a much later date.

To be frank RPM already offers quick lookup to all required RPG data, so duplicating dynamic lookups by storing links in a static tree knowledgebase is only going to create unnecessary clutter. 

With the latest combat model implemented for the PreBeta, there's actually very little need to even do the lookups.
- The creatures are fully constructed according to the race and class rules (with all abilities and items instantly available for viewing through the creatures themselves).
- Maps, groups and location descriptions are instantly accessible from the BattleMap.
- For any chosen actions (spells, attacks etc), RPM has already retrieved the descriptions for possible review, and precalculated that which can be precalculated.
- Skills are the classic, where different variations with different DCs are already choosable via a combo box, all modifiers are already calculated and presented (magical item enhancements, synergy bonuses, armor checks etc), and RPM will even automatically determine opposed checks and present both sides of the issue for resolution (eg. creature targets "Hide" at several opponents, so RPM instantly builds up Hide vs Spot checks, with all possible modifiers already there (no need for lookups)).

Since RPM's various RPG database files (adventures, groups, maps, creatures etc) are all tightly integrated and optimized ( for best in-game data presentation, and achieving things such as fully compiled adventure reports etc), storing that sort of information in the tree knowledgbase would simply be a backwards step. If the information organization was that loose, RPM wouldn't be able to offer the level of automation and speed that it does.

In fact, given a tightly integrated RPG database, engine, and GUI, I can't see much use for a tree codex other than to store campaign setting, history, and perhaps on-going player history.

Naturally the campaign/knowledge tree is fully importable/exportable, as is the the rest of RPM.
As per standard RPM integration, any tree records that are part of a given "Source" export, get included in a "Source" export.
This means, for example, that a "DaemonForge" source export would incorporate the full classes, skills, feats, items, spells etc data and game rules, along with the campaign setting maps, history, timelines and strongholds.

Regards,


----------



## Cergorach (May 8, 2002)

Looks good Luke! Finally a place to dump all my scriplets...


----------



## Luke (May 16, 2002)

*Generators and the full Beta*

A quick note to let you know that the full beta release is pretty close now. I'm waiting on the final reports from PreBeta testers, and just need to settle a question on generators.

As of the PreBeta release, RPM now has support for virtually everything you need except properly integrated generators.

I've promised not to add more features before getting the beta/release 1 out, but it looks like generators could be *very* popular (especially combining Jamis NPC generator import with automatic equipment generation).

You might be interested in checking out the news info at http://www.roleplayingmaster.com , and letting me know if you think generators are a good idea for the beta/release 1 (probably 2 weeks delay), or if you have suggestions 

Take Care,
Luke


----------



## Leopold (May 16, 2002)

integrate the NPCGen from jamis with an equpiment generator and you got me sold on this package. I have brought it to the pcgen team and they like what they see. Now with this brought to light we don't have to worry too much on this front but just keep focusing on making it easier to build PC's and not worry about the random side.



keep up the good work!


----------



## Cergorach (May 17, 2002)

Two weeks seems acceptable to me to get a lot of extra functionality.

Also, i currently use PCGen to generate and keep track of my own characters. I use it because it's simple and small and doesn't require much effort to learn, it also has some kewl viewers for Palms and pocketPCs. I would appreciate the ability to import and export such characters in RPM. Maybe we can make a template for PCGen that makes it possible for RPM to read it. And make a Report in RPM that allows PCGen to read it. Is this a possibility?


----------



## jparisi (May 18, 2002)

*RPM Pre-beta 4 Comments*

Luke, 

I already sent you this via Email, But I'm posting a copy here for everyone else. It seems to be the trend.


Ok, here goes a partial list...

Re: Combat, (following the tutorial)

1. When generating an Encounter, I set the current time/date in the generate encounter dialog, but it does not update in the encounter window.

2. When going into the add creature by list section, I get a "unregistered version of TDBFilterPanel" message. You probably know about this.

3. When adding the elves you enter ftr3 for a 3rd level fighter, is there a list of these abbreviations for the other classes? Maybe you could make the class a drop-down and type in the level?

4. Just noticed, "green light" is listed in the tutorial but it looks like it changed to a green checkmark.

5. although the tutorial says everyone starts flatfooted, elf1 did not, is this because he succeeded on a spot check?

6. In the tutorial when you talk about stacking armor after the first combat strike you say "Normally the leather wouldn't could for anything..." Should probably be "count". Just a typo.

7. BTW, the "green light" still shows up on the execute action screen, I'm not sure which way you're going, green lights or checkmarks, or both. Probably should standardize on one.

8. Instead of having to end a creature's turn, after their turn is done a pop-up saying "Initiative done, proceed to next.. Etc" yes/no dialog would be nice, with yes the default so you can just hit return.

9. Every time you make a change the execute action dialog seems to re-roll the D20. I would probably like the roll to stay between selecting things, but can see why you might want it to change, like between picking weapons so the player doesn't pick one that will make the hit. I had a 20 showing for a roll and when I picked a target it changed to a 4, I felt robbed, hehe. 

10. In the attack damage screen, it would be nice to see a HP result, you have the current HP, but that's without the just-done damage applied. It would be nice to see another field with the result.

11. following the tutorial, when starting to use the battle map the tutorial says to drag creatures over from the list, but my map already had them on it.

12. When using the battle map, should you be allowed to hit a creature that is out of range? I targeted a creature that was clearly out of range but was able to hit it. Is the range for reference while choosing targets?

13. When using the battle map, it would be nice to have the current creature's target highlighted in a similar fashion that the current creature is. For example, the current creature has a circle around it (which I assume represents the threatened area) it would be nice if the creature's target had something, like a bull's-eye, crossed swords, or something over it for reference.

14. When a new round starts, is the data left over from the last round? Do you have to hit "repeat" to clear it and roll a new D20?

15. I noticed that after a creature has had a turn, if you click "repeat" it will get another. I think a pop-up saying "creature has already had a turn, etc" would be nice. For example, I walked away and came back and wasn't sure if it was at the beginning of the creature's turn or the end.




Others,

1. After updating to pre-beta 4, the splash screen still says pre-beta 3.

2. I would love to save the screen layout between sessions. Preferences does some, but the windows size gets reset and the position changes. I'm running at 1600x1200 and can have a lot of stuff laid out on the screen. After re-starting the program I have to lay it out again. Not a big deal, but would be nice.

3. I think the creature list can be a view under creatures, similar to the map list under maps.

More to come as I explore other areas.


----------



## Luke (May 19, 2002)

*Re: RPM Pre-beta 4 Comments*

1. Game date/time:  isn't yet a part of the working system. It seems to be low on people's priorities.

2. "unregistered version of TDBFilterPanel" message: Unfortunately there are nowhere near enough RPM donations to cover the shareware components used. This will hopefully change once the beta is out, or I'll have to do something else. Whilst I'm prepared to spend all my free time for over a year doing this, I'm not prepared to spend that much personal money on it. From the comments received, I hope the situation will soon change.

3. Class drop-down for adding creatures by the list grid: Definitely coming up. 

4. "Green light" in tutorial: Thanks. I need to update that to a green checkmark.

5. First creature in first round not flatfooted: My mistake. They should become "unflatfooted" after their first action, not before.

6. Tutorial typo: Thanks.

7. "Green light" vs Green checkmark. It'll stay the way it is. The green checkmark superceeds the old Green light - and it normally means "I'm doing entering info here - continue on". The new role of the green light, which should only appear in the Execute Action window, is simply to update screen results when entering manual rolls. I think I'll make the "green light" disappear altogether.

8. [Instead of having to end a creature's turn, after their turn is done a pop-up saying "Initiative done, proceed to next.. Etc" yes/no dialog would be nice, with yes the default so you can just hit return.]
Sorry. Can't go with this one. RPM will never really know when a turn is done. You may, or may not, want to end with a 5' step, or some free action. The turn is only over when you say so. Mouse clicks and key stroke counts are everything for unobtrusive use of the computer at the gaming table, so popping up an additional "tes/no" dialog gets you nowhere.

9. D20 rerolls on dialog changes: How it works is correct. You should select your target before choosing the action. Targets sometimes get their own D20 rolls - such as when you're using an opposed skill, or casting a spell that has a save. You should notice that if you modify "DM adjustments", or other modifiers, the D20 roll doesn't change.

10. Show final damage in "Damage screen": There's a bit more to this than first meets the eye. The "Game Log" *does* show the final results. You don't quite see it yet, but RPM is designed so that attacked creatures can respond to the damage, for a truly final damage result. That is why the enchantment is shown, along with the *type* of each damage. Creature abilities can be configured to reduce or ignore damage, based on it's type ( eg. skeletons 1/2 from slashing, some creatures ignore critical threats, fire-based creatues may take 1/2 from fire, or double from cold).

11. Tutorial Creatures already on map: I'm illustrating a useful point about ability to drag from the list. Since that tutorial I've included a feature where you can create an entire encounter group created by a double-click on the map, but the point is still useful if you want to drag in creatures from another map (eg: same adventure), onto the current map.

12. RPM allowing "out-of-range" attacks: This is deliberate. RPM *never* stops you doing what you want to. It'll guide you by showing your threatend radius and calculating distances for you, but it's up to you what happens.

13. High-light target, as well as current creature: That's an excellent suggestion. The component I currently use only allows simple highlights (see donations and ability to use shareware/paid components). I should be able to come up with something, though. Probably after the beta.

14. Later round need "Repeat": Correct. A lot of the time you want the same action, with the same target(s) from one round to the next, and "Repeat" re-rolls the dice for you.

15. You can double-up by clicking repeat: This works fine, and may be quite appropriate if hasted etc. If you're unsure because you walked away for a while, just consult the "Gam Log".

[Others]
1. After updating to pre-beta 4, the splash screen still says pre-beta 3: Not quite. Update 4 gives you 1.3. I'll skip a number next time so that these come out the same.

2. I would love to save the screen layout between sessions:
How many packages with this many complexities (types of screens and docking options) do this for you? 
Seriously, it's an excellent suggestion, and I half-built that capability 3 months ago. It's of a priority that will probably get finished after release 1 (ie: for release 2).

3. I think the creature list can be a view under creatures, similar to the map list under maps: The problem is that the same could be said for the BattleMap, Conditions, Manage Encounter, Action Execute etc etc. Back in the alpha version days I used to have the creature list automatically dock itself to the current window (if appropriate), and it seemed to be more trouble than it was worth.
Best thing is to arrange the "Creature List" to the left side of the screen, and have all other windows to the right.




> More to come as I explore other areas.




Look forward to it...
Thanks


----------



## Leopold (May 19, 2002)

Luke,
       One problem i am having pop up repeatedly is in the statblock under the window where the NPC is created, in no place does it have a CR rating. This is irksome as I had to go into the MANAGE ENCOUNTER section to see a CR rating for the creature. Can you add this functionality to the Statblock at the bottom of the NPC window?


----------



## Luke (May 19, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *Can you add this functionality to the Statblock at the bottom of the NPC window? *




Hey Leopold,

The CR is actually displayed in the main section, above the statblock window between Dodge and Speed. You don't need to be looking at the statblock to see it.

Regards,


----------



## Leopold (May 19, 2002)

Luke said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hey Leopold,
> 
> ...




[To the tune of Amazing Grace]
I was once lost, but now am found. Blind but now can seeeeee!


How you like them apples! It was hidden away up in there! Anyway you can put that into the statblock down below as another entry? This is highly helpful when copying from the statblock into a .doc with the CR plainly visable


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## Luke (May 19, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *
> 
> [To the tune of Amazing Grace]
> I was once lost, but now am found. Blind but now can seeeeee!
> ...




Hang on. It's already in the statblock. The first thing after [Name, Gender, Race, Classes] (before size).

Gotcha twice!   You would've thought I already knew that though...


----------



## Cergorach (May 19, 2002)

*hands Leopold his glasses*

You need them more than i do Bro ;-)


----------



## Leopold (May 20, 2002)

this stuff is hidden away! how's a man supposed to see it?


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## Luke (May 20, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *this stuff is hidden away! how's a man supposed to see it? *




Well... It's the start of the 2nd line in the statblock, but you're very right. That's 3rd edition game mechanics for you - reasonably comprehensive "physics" simulating an entire fantasy/whatever universe. So much darned information...

It's why I started RolePlayingMaster. The original vision was to be an automated in-game assistant for MasterTools. All the character and adventure generation only came in because of the lengthy MasterTools delays, followed by all the cutting of MT functionality.


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## Luke (May 25, 2002)

*Integrated Generators*

We've lost some posts here, so I'll cover the "Integrated Generators" territory, and give an update.

There are a *lot* of text generators already available in RPM for all sorts of things, but I recently asked about 

delaying release 1 to get properly integrated geenrators into RPM.

A "properly integrated generator" is something that allows you to build a random table by selecting items available 

from the RPM database (races, items (equipment, armor, magic etc), spells, skills, and so on...).

* The answer was a resounding "yes" to delay release 1 for implementing integrated generators.*

So, I revisited some work I did before I asked the question, and have some decent results already, as follows:

*What's working now:*
You can create various table types (races, items etc). You pull across any items from your selected "Sources" 

list, and give them a chance to occur.

You can actually generate from the tables.
You can create different tables for different purposes. For example, you could have different equipment tables for 

different classes, or different wandering monster tables for different localities or climates.

* What I plan to do for release 1*
Implement basic use of the generators. This includes equipment  generation (weapons, armor, magic etc), and also 

Encounter tables (wandering monsters etc).

For example, a quick click can create you an encounter group from the appropriate encounter table.

*What I plan to do after release 1*
Get fancier in the possibilities for generation.

Actually create encounter charts that you can attach to a prepared adventure. You may have a chart for the 

adventure itself, or a map within the adventure, or even a location within a map. Exporting the adventure for others, 

this information would be included!

If *you* have any great ideas, feel free to share them! Chances are it will have to wait till after release 1, though.

Regards,
Luke


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## Leopold (May 25, 2002)

i want a generator where i hit a button and it spews out this:

1. Random encounter based on a spread of CR's i put in a number and terrain and it spits out the monsters and what equipment they might have and what loot they might have.

2. NPC's that are FULLY equipped. This is a big one for me as I am doing the 2E to 3E conversion and do this the hard way in RPM.



Those 2 would be worth holding off the release for.


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## Luke (May 28, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *i want a generator where i hit a button and it spews out this:
> 
> 1. Random encounter based on a spread of CR's i put in a number and terrain and it spits out the monsters and what equipment they might have and what loot they might have.
> 
> ...




1. I have a few Dungeon Encounter tables entered, and it's going pretty well with quick, random encounter generation.
What you're talking about isn't really table generation, and hence you don't have a way to say what the relative chances of different races appearing are (eg. Orc as likely as a Dragon).

What you can do right now with RPM is to create tables for a wilderness encounter, of different ELs (as per the DMG). The whole autogenerated CR thing isn't obvious, since you can build an EL using a creature that fits it, a number of low CR creatures that add up to what you want, a combination of the 2, and a further complexity where you can use low CR race creatures, but level them up! Too many degrees of freedom.

Whilst I'd like to do other variations, release 1 will be about giving you the ability to create your own tables. It should be okay to have the standard tables, and you can then go create others for a specific campaign location setting, or even a particular adventure.

2. NPCs that are FULLY equipped is a very loaded question. The harder I look at it, the worse it gets.
There's a LOT more to SENSIBLE NPC equipment generation than creating tables, and if you want an expandable system that works, then you're asking people to possibly learn scripting.

The problem with sensible generation, is to make sure that the equipment fits in with the feats, race and class features. Examples are: Druids avoid iron, ignore weapons that you don't have feats for (or especially proficiency), ignore magic you can't use, ignore obvious alignment issues with magic, Barbarians possibly prefer hide/leather armor etc. Worse yet, RPM (like PCGen - you know what I mean here) is designed for openly expandable D20 systems. You can't *assume* classes, such as the core ones, and code for them specifically. You don't know what other classes people will invent, with particular equipment bias, and code for it.

Going away to think...

Any suggestions welcome...


----------



## KingofStorms (May 28, 2002)

LUKE:

Large groups of creature or NPC generation could be done like this:  (I apologize if this turns out to be too confusing.  I think I could actually create the screens quicker in Photoshop to SHOW you what I'm talking about than to describe them, but oh well...)

Step 1:  THE 20's FORM.  (A form pops up with 20 questions, ranging from what three armour types to use to what race (creatures included), to what type of weapons they use, all selected by the DM.  Next to each of these types of questions is another box where the DM then puts in the percentage chance of them using such items, with a third box next to THAT where they put in the percentage chance each item is magical.)  The last question of the 20 is "how many creatures of this type do you wish to create?" and if we want 8, 3, or 20 of them, we enter it here.

We must fill out the form until it is complete (the "Process"ing button should be grey out until all questions are complete).  We then hit Process.  It then uses all of your generation matrixes to auto generate each character based on the paramaters we put into the 20 questions.  The weapon types, the armour, the percentage of use, and the chance that each item is magical...all of that is controlled by us DM's in the entry stage.  Now, the generation proceeds automatically, using our rules.  As each creature is completed, it is auto-"green lighted" right into .... the Approver Form....

Step 2:  The APPROVER FORM.  (This form shows all of the creatures generated and allows you to quickly modify the weapons that were created (if one creature's magic item turned out to be too weak or too powerful, it can be replaced here...)  The Approver Form is just like any one of your NPC Groups but it resides in limbo here until you are completely finished, no creatures are yet added to the game at all.   If you need to add more creatures to this list (say you want 4 Orcs with full gear, and 4 Hobgoblins will full gear, and 2 Sorcerers at 15th level with full gear....) you finish each group and it gets put here until you are finished generating your armies... You just pop up another 20's Form and add new creatures that, when processed, are moved into the Approver Form also.  

When you are totally finished, you hit ADD TO GAME at the bottom and all the creatures generated get added into the Adventure you are currently in.  

Hope this makes any sense to you at all, I do ramble a bit, and for that I am sorry.  Good luck on your dilemna, Luke!


----------



## Luke (May 28, 2002)

KingofStorms said:
			
		

> *
> ...
> Step 1:  THE 20's FORM.  (A form pops up with 20 questions, ranging from what three armour types to use to what race (creatures included), to what type of weapons they use, all selected by the DM.  Next to each of these types of questions is another box where the DM then puts in the percentage chance of them using such items, with a third box next to THAT where they put in the percentage chance each item is magical.)  The last question of the 20 is "how many creatures of this type do you wish to create?" and if we want 8, 3, or 20 of them, we enter it here.
> ...
> *



Thanks. I think I get the picture being painted.

The main issues I have are this:
- I already have several ways to instantly generate batches of creatures. The main issue is how to equip them. Speed is really important here.
- We're really looking for a completely automatic system. If you can pre-build appropriate tables (or, worst case, scripts), you should have to ask the "20 questions" all the time.
- For example, if I import from the integrated Jamic NPC generator, I get just about everything except the equipment. If RPM can fill this out automatically, we have sensible, fully constructed creatures. We still have issues with equipment being compatible with current profociencies, feats, and class features/restrictions.

To zone in a bit more clearly on my problem: How can you automatically, instantly generate appropriate equipment for a crature of random race, with random classes and levels?

Thanks,


----------



## KingofStorms (May 28, 2002)

Some of the other 20 questions could work like this:

say, question 5:  "Do the creatures have magic items on them?  Check all that apply:"

Now, you have a huge set of checkable circles (like the ones I had to fill out to register to this website....) below the question.  They look like this:

                              Value/Strength:
.....Poor........So So.......Okay.......Good........Darn Good......Great!


Also, under each column like "Poor," there is a box for "How Many___?"

(Now here, under each of these columns are a pattern of the same checkboxes, such as "Potions" "Rings" "Rods" "Wands" etc.....   and if I check the "Rings" circle beneath the "Darn Good" category, RPM evaluates these choices and finds the approprate magic item for our selections....  We can check any and all of the combinations and as many items as are entered in the "How Many___" area under each column are generated for each selection.  Next to the "How Many___" box, there could be a checkbox for "Randomise each roll?" to make sure if we put 3 down, we don't get 3 of the same exact thing.

Using this system we could easily fill our enemies with potions of varying potency, rings, etc.... now just expand on this for each of the 20 questions, including equipment, treasure (gems, etc..) until you are satisfied with what you think the results will be....

Just thought I'd elaborate on how this would work.... hope it made any sense....  

Later!


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## meatpopsicl3 (May 28, 2002)

*Equiping through Math...*



			
				KingofStorms said:
			
		

> *LUKE:
> 
> Large groups of creature or NPC generation could be done like this:  (I apologize if this turns out to be too confusing.  I think I could actually create the screens quicker in Photoshop to SHOW you what I'm talking about than to describe them, but oh well...)
> 
> ...


----------



## Luke (May 29, 2002)

*Re: Equiping through Math...*



			
				meatpopsicl3 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Cergorach (May 29, 2002)

Luke,

Let's concentrate on the basics, or the beta release will be many months away... If someone really wants the complex tables described above, they can as long as the basics are in.


----------



## Alessio Pauri (May 30, 2002)

I'm downloading RPM now, hoping the net to be not too slow today.

Meanwhile I'm reading this forum, and even if I only saw screenshots and read messages, there is a question I would like to ask. Maybe it's ok already, but since it is a tricky point, who knows? The question is: if a sorcerer or wizard takes divine oracle or sacred exorcist Prc he gains the domain (divination or exorcism); in RPM does he gain the domain as he have to? Note that he should also acquire knowledge of all domain spells from 1st to 9th level.

Hope I could help more than this in the future.... grrr I hate to have such a slow connection!


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## smetzger (May 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Alessio Divine Oracle and Sacred Excorcist are not OGL/OGC material so they don't 'ship' with RPM.
> 
> You would need to input this stuff yourself and then do the appropriate scripting to support the special abilities.
> 
> *:> Scott_


----------



## Alessio Pauri (May 30, 2002)

Thanks! I didn't know that. But what exactly is in OGL/OGC material? If I want to add something myself is it difficult or not?

PCGen has a database with all this stuff; did it acquired some special licenses? Is it possible to import PCGen Database into RPM?


----------



## Leopold (May 30, 2002)

Alessio Pauri said:
			
		

> *Thanks! I didn't know that. But what exactly is in OGL/OGC material? If I want to add something myself is it difficult or not?
> 
> PCGen has a database with all this stuff; did it acquired some special licenses? Is it possible to import PCGen Database into RPM? *




we do not have a 'database' per se of information. Each .lst file is loaded into the applicatioin when the user selectes the sources to load. It is then stored in internal memory until released. This way we don't have a proprietary database that can't be run on every OS out there.

as for the licensing: We are on a LGPL which is  a subset of the GPL license for software. The OGL/OGC issue is complied with by going to the publishers, showing them our works, explaining the benefits of pcgen and what it can do for the company and players alike and then putting the informaiton into a .lst file (list file) and then loaded into the program. This alllows the publisher to see their work in clear unencrypted text layout without a special utility (notepad views it just fine). In this way we show we are not modifying their PI/OGC/OGL material in anyway.

As for the import into RPM, It would be nice. Myself and Luke have talked about it and we might be able to come up with something. There are a few more tweaks we are going to do first and then I think RPM and PCGen might be able to work together.




ps. None of this is gospel unless the benevolent dictator merton_monk says so, all praises be him, and may he have code monkey snacks (patent pending) forever....


----------



## Cergorach (May 30, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *As for the import into RPM, It would be nice. Myself and Luke have talked about it and we might be able to come up with something. There are a few more tweaks we are going to do first and then I think RPM and PCGen might be able to work together.
> *




YES! You guys rule!

Where can i send my wishlist ;-)


----------



## Leopold (May 30, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *
> 
> YES! You guys rule!
> 
> Where can i send my wishlist ;-) *




hahaha it still must be approved by the powers that be and we shall see what happens....


----------



## Cergorach (May 31, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *hahaha it still must be approved by the powers that be and we shall see what happens.... *




Let me restate it then, who do i need to visit with my goon squad ;-)


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## Leopold (May 31, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Let me restate it then, who do i need to visit with my goon squad ;-) *




it will all come down to OGL/OGC/PI/IP licensing issues in the end. If the information can be pulled from a file sans some info RPM will be fine. All spells, feats, Classes, skills, equipment are mostly OGL or OGC.  IF RPM pulls all that out i doubt there will be a problem but that is  something me and luke have been talking about and will continue our discussion till we arrive at a conclusion


----------



## Luke (Jun 3, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *Luke,
> 
> Let's concentrate on the basics, or the beta release will be many months away... If someone really wants the complex tables described above, they can as long as the basics are in. *




Looks like the way to go.

Some good suggestions there, but nothing that can be quickly done and also give quick results.
I'm following the DMG tables for now..


----------



## Luke (Jun 3, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *
> 
> it will all come down to OGL/OGC/PI/IP licensing issues in the end. If the information can be pulled from a file sans some info RPM will be fine. All spells, feats, Classes, skills, equipment are mostly OGL or OGC.  IF RPM pulls all that out i doubt there will be a problem but that is  something me and luke have been talking about and will continue our discussion till we arrive at a conclusion *




Yup. Since the PreBeta and the enhancements to the BattleMap/Combat management, I've been starting to get a high percentage of requests fot PCGen import.

Any idea when the XML project might be completed (especially the characters themselves, if not the .lst files).

Regards.


----------



## Leopold (Jun 3, 2002)

Luke said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yup. Since the PreBeta and the enhancements to the BattleMap/Combat management, I've been starting to get a high percentage of requests fot PCGen import.
> 
> ...





you might have better luck importing the .pcg file which does NOT change. It is the saved character reference on the computer and it is the one static file that exists. It does contain all the PC information in one area and it is a relitively flat .txt type file.


XML is unknown..


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## Cergorach (Jun 3, 2002)

Erm... I just came across some things i missed before.

How do you get RPM to use a weapon two-handed and calculate the correct damage?

Natural attacks still use the standard BAB, thus if the BAB is high enough you get multiple attacks with the natural weapon.

AC isn't calculated correctly. Grimlock Bar5, Str 20, Dex 16, Breastplate +1, Dodge feat. Gets AC 20 and Dodge 0. I think it should be AC 20 (+4 natural, +5 breastplate, +1 magical enhancement) Dodge 3/4 (+3 Dex, +1 dodge).

Weapon Focus (and i think any weapon specific feat) doesn't add a bonus to attack yet.


----------



## Luke (Jun 3, 2002)

*Grimlock stats*



			
				Cergorach said:
			
		

> *Erm... I just came across some things i missed before.
> 
> How do you get RPM to use a weapon two-handed and calculate the correct damage?
> 
> ...




Checked out the character as best I could with the info you provided:
- If your character isnt flatfooted (default when created), you'll see a non-zero dodge. AC seemed okay.
- Grimlock came with a battleaxe, and I added "Weapon Focus(Battleaxe)". All seemed okay. [tried uploading screenshot. Didn't work].
- It seems that the barbarian starts off with "Barbarian Rage", which does change a lot of stats. I gather you turned it off though?


----------



## Cergorach (Jun 3, 2002)

*Re: Grimlock stats*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *Checked out the character as best I could with the info you provided:
> - If your character isnt flatfooted (default when created), you'll see a non-zero dodge. AC seemed okay.
> - Grimlock came with a battleaxe, and I added "Weapon Focus(Battleaxe)". All seemed okay. [tried uploading screenshot. Didn't work].
> - It seems that the barbarian starts off with "Barbarian Rage", which does change a lot of stats. I gather you turned it off though? *




-Drat! Zero dodge is explained! Thanks (do i feel stupid)!
-How do you add "Weapon Focus(Battleaxe)"? I just hit the plus button in the feats list of the creature and add "Weapon Focus", then under Subtype enter "Battleaxe". This doesn't work (at least isn't calculated in the Creature attack screen.
-How do i turn this hellish contraption off ;-) The barbrian now has a strength of 28 and a dexterity of 23, somehow it keeps adding. But where do i turn it off again (i'm getting a bit rusty)...
-Still leaves the two-handed issue...


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## Luke (Jun 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: Grimlock stats*



			
				Cergorach said:
			
		

> *
> 
> -Drat! Zero dodge is explained! Thanks (do i feel stupid)!
> -How do you add "Weapon Focus(Battleaxe)"? I just hit the plus button in the feats list of the creature and add "Weapon Focus", then under Subtype enter "Battleaxe". This doesn't work (at least isn't calculated in the Creature attack screen.
> ...




- Sorry. Forgot about 2 handed. Just add a second weapon to an existing attack. Make sure that the correct weapon has "Off-hand" checked.

- Use creature "Options" to turn off barbarian rage. You can find it in the "Execute Action" window under the "Options" tab. 

- I have improved function accessibility significantly for the next release, and you should find it more obviously then.

- A "Recalculate (All)" should fix any multiple adding. There was a pretty bad bug in the last update that duplicated ability modifiers when you changed anything in your equipment. This is related to preparing RPM for ability modifiers in any item (especially magical). You'll find that fixed too.

I'm intending to make the next release the actual beta (when I get equipment generation done), but perhaps I need to do an update ???

Regards,


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## nickT (Jun 4, 2002)

Twenty Questions problem

1. Have a default setting for 20 questions, so that you can quickly change what you don't like and then run with it.

2. have a system of attaching the results of a change of the 20 questions form to a particular race, so that users can customise their equipment lists to their campaign.

3. have an easy method of importing/exporting 20 questions responses.

4. to get round the problem of multiple non-metal items but only a few that are appropriate for a druid you need to add a category of prefered equipment for the various classes.  When you choose a weapon, you have a percentage chance check (definable by the user) to see if your druid follows the common herd and has a sickle or if he is unusual and has a wooden mattock.

5. I think if you use points 1 to 3 and set up a couple of 20 question forms, you will soon find yourself flooded with custom forms for halflings, black eye clan orcs, and any other race you care to mention.

6. leave us something to do Luke!   if you produce as much as you hope to,  us poor GMs will find ourselves redundant.

Hope this is some use
NickT


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## Cergorach (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Grimlock stats*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *
> 
> - Sorry. Forgot about 2 handed. Just add a second weapon to an existing attack. Make sure that the correct weapon has "Off-hand" checked.
> 
> ...




-Erm... I mean two-handed weapons suchs as a greatsword (1.5 times the damage), or any single handed weapon you use with two hands...

-Ah! Ok, i knew it was there somehere...

-YESSSS!!!! You da main man Luke!

-Well, when do you plan to realease the actual beta? When could you arange an update? And how much would that set the beta bacK?


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## Luke (Jun 7, 2002)

*Beta release and update*



			
				Cergorach said:
			
		

> *
> -Well, when do you plan to realease the actual beta? When could you arange an update? And how much would that set the beta bacK? *




Barring no setbacks, the Beta should be out within a week.

I do have an update available for those who *really* want it, but I recommend waiting a week.

I'm just working through:
- The latest feedback issues.
- My own personal tests.
- Updating of documentation.

I'm not going to take the full NPC equipment generation too far for the beta, but there has been solid work done on the generator tables...

Regards,


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## smetzger (Jun 7, 2002)

I have found some data problems in your most recent PUBLIC pre beta.

1) The Dire animals are not listed as Dire.  For example the Dire Rat is just listed as Rat.

2) It doesn't look like the full text description of  Special Attacks and Special Qualities is 'linked' to all the creatures.  For example Dire Rat and Dire Weasel.

3) No HD entry for Giant Ants

*:> Scott


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