# Final Fantasy XII - Must buy?



## John Crichton (Oct 28, 2006)

Biggest RPG franchise on the planet.  A company with a great track record of releasing excellent games late in console cycles plus a new creative team.  Is this one a must have?

There are some non-FF fans out there so this naturally may not be your thing but I've had this game pre-ordered for a while now.  The game looks gorgeous and the first major US review is out at IGN.

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/741/741991p1.html

They gave it a 9.5 and I think they tend to gush and over-score games a bit.  As most of us are, I'm more of a Gamespot guy and think their reviews reflect my views more than any other individual site.  That said, it will probably score at least a 9 there given the buzz flying around.  I have been staying pretty oblivious to spoilers and tons of screen shots but the IGN review did get me a little pumped.

So, are you picking this one up?  Waiting for a review, friend recommendation or the like?  Played the import and want to share?


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## ohGr (Oct 28, 2006)

I know a guy who imported the Japanese version when it came out and he's been raving about it ever since.

Personally, i've had just about all i can stand when it comes to JRPGs and have no real interest in playing them anymore.  However, given that FFXII's original director was Yasumi Matsuno - the man behind two of my favourite PS1 games, Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story - i've decided to give this one a chance.  It'll be my swan song to JRPGs.


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## Alzrius (Oct 29, 2006)

A friend of mine already got a bootleg copy of the game (in English) and can't stop gushing about it. Having watched a little of it, I suppose I can see why, though I'm not getting it myself (I only play Nintendo systems - always have, always will).


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## drothgery (Oct 29, 2006)

I'll be buying a copy mostly to see if I still enjoy console RPGs enough to play through a good one, which I need to know before I buy another console. I know I'm not as attached to video games I used to be; I'll be buying at most one console from this generation, rather than the three I did from the last one, and I'm not going to pay launch price for it.


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## Thanee (Oct 29, 2006)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> So, are you picking this one up?




Though I heard some good things about the series, I never really played any. Too much anime for my taste. I don't like the style, and I highly doubt, that the rest is good enough to compensate for that. 

Bye
Thanee


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 29, 2006)

I played the demo that came with DQ8 and while it was somewhat nifty, in the end I wasn't really blown away with it.  It'll probably be a pass for me.


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## mmu1 (Oct 30, 2006)

The last Final Fantasy I tried playing was X, and I was thoroughly unimpressed with that one, so I doubt I'll try XII. Especially given that the NWN2 launch is only days away, and I still haven't finished Marvel Ultimate Alliance and Bully.


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## Vigilance (Oct 31, 2006)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Biggest RPG franchise on the planet.  A company with a great track record of releasing excellent games late in console cycles plus a new creative team.  Is this one a must have?




Like you, Ive had it preordered for a while now as well.

It's a FF game, that makes it a must-have for me. Even FF X-2 was *much* better than most FF games.

Heck, even DQ VIII was amazing. Square knows from RPGs.

So my answer is yes 

Chuck


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## Alzrius (Oct 31, 2006)

Just as a note to those who might be interested, December's issue of _Nintendo Power_ revealed that there's going to be a FFXII prequel coming to the Nintendo DS, titled *Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings*. Here's the blurb:



> A spin-off of the recently released PlayStation 2 epic, Revenant Wings takes place prior to the events of Final Fantasy XII, and stars Vaan and Penelo during their more innocent days as air pirates. Little else is known about the game at this time, but series veteran Motomu Toriyama (who most recently helmed Final Fantasy X-2) will serve as writer and director.


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## trancejeremy (Oct 31, 2006)

Circuit City will apparently have FF12 for $38 this week. Pretty good price.


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## DonTadow (Oct 31, 2006)

Definately a must by for me. I loved the demo and have been phening for some good console gaming for a while. It's the reason i'mpassing up buying nw2 (well that and i need to upgrade the grpahics card on the computer)


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## DonTadow (Oct 31, 2006)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Like you, Ive had it preordered for a while now as well.
> 
> It's a FF game, that makes it a must-have for me. Even FF X-2 was *much* better than most FF games.
> 
> ...



??? is the ff x-2 thing a joke? or as I like to call it ,Final fantasy DDR.


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## Vigilance (Oct 31, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> ??? is the ff x-2 thing a joke? or as I like to call it ,Final fantasy DDR.




Nope. I liked FF X-2. Yes it has some silly aspects, including the clothes-changing thing and the Yuna-as-pop-star thing.

But it also has a great system of seperating character level from class abilities, the return of the real time battle system that was the GREAT heart and soul of FF VII and VIII, the return of some characters I love and some really buff mini-games.

I mean seriously. That sounds like a good game to me. 

I think Gamespot's score for X-2 is dead on. It's in the 8's. Lower than FF VII, VIII and X (which are 9.5, 9.5 and 9.3) but still one of the better RPGs released the year it was put out. 

Chuck


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## Arnwyn (Oct 31, 2006)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> So, are you picking this one up?



Special Edition has long since been pre-ordered.


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## DonTadow (Oct 31, 2006)

Ah thus the difference. Whereas Final fantasy 9 and 10 reminded me of hte origiinal games 1-6 x-2 reminded me of some really bad rip off that pleased the typical gamer but left the rpg fan kinda empty. 

In any case got my copy of fxii. The reviews look much better than the earlier stuff I saw. Back to bigger groups and more of an ensemble cast.


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## LrdApoc (Oct 31, 2006)

Well the dress up aspect of X-2 aside I liked the mission based structure. The X games were always the more tactical FF games of late - since they were basically a return to turn based play.

A few hours in and I'll say XII is a good game.. slow to start but there is some great character development. These are far from carbon copy archetypes like many of the protagonists of the games.


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## Shalimar (Oct 31, 2006)

Ok, so how is the license board system?  I'm not really sold on it myself, but I haven't got too much info on it yet.  I liked the sphere grid from FFX since I could make any of the heros into what I wanted (mostly making Kimari, Lulu, and Yuna full White + Black Mages).  How does the license board stack up?  Also how does the leveling system work for people not in the active party?  I heard that they get License Points too, but is it the same amount or different?

How about the Gambit system?  Is it hard to use?  Are there any basic gambit set-ups that pretty much everyone should have?


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## DonTadow (Oct 31, 2006)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Ok, so how is the license board system?  I'm not really sold on it myself, but I haven't got too much info on it yet.  I liked the sphere grid from FFX since I could make any of the heros into what I wanted (mostly making Kimari, Lulu, and Yuna full White + Black Mages).  How does the license board stack up?  Also how does the leveling system work for people not in the active party?  I heard that they get License Points too, but is it the same amount or different?
> 
> How about the Gambit system?  Is it hard to use?  Are there any basic gambit set-ups that pretty much everyone should have?



Wish I knew. At first it seemed a good idea to go pick it up on my lunch hour, but now the 2 more hours of anticipation to play it is killing me.


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## John Crichton (Oct 31, 2006)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> Circuit City will apparently have FF12 for $38 this week. Pretty good price.



 That is an *awesome* price.  Too bad that I need to have the Special Edition version.  I am a shill for the gaming industry.


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## John Crichton (Oct 31, 2006)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Nope. I liked FF X-2. Yes it has some silly aspects, including the clothes-changing thing and the Yuna-as-pop-star thing.
> 
> But it also has a great system of seperating character level from class abilities, the return of the real time battle system that was the GREAT heart and soul of FF VII and VIII, the return of some characters I love and some really buff mini-games.
> 
> ...



I don't want to tangent out too far here from FFXII, but I'll agree.  I was impressed by the gameplay in FFX-2.  Once you get beyond the weird girly stuff (which I didn't have to but many of my buds wouldn't even give it a shot despite loving X) it's a solid game that builds off the previous experience.


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## John Crichton (Oct 31, 2006)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Special Edition has long since been pre-ordered.



I'd expect nothing less from my alt-screen name.


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## John Crichton (Oct 31, 2006)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Ok, so how is the license board system?  I'm not really sold on it myself, but I haven't got too much info on it yet.  I liked the sphere grid from FFX since I could make any of the heros into what I wanted (mostly making Kimari, Lulu, and Yuna full White + Black Mages).  How does the license board stack up?  Also how does the leveling system work for people not in the active party?  I heard that they get License Points too, but is it the same amount or different?
> 
> How about the Gambit system?  Is it hard to use?  Are there any basic gambit set-ups that pretty much everyone should have?



Haven't played it yet (it's waiting for me @ home, I hope) but the IGN review and Gamespy reviews give a pretty good picture about the meat and potatoes of the combat and character building parts of the game.  There is more at Gaming Age, too.

Gamespy - http://ps2.gamespy.com/playstation-2/final-fantasy-xii/742679p1.html

Gaming Age - http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/reviews/review.pl?sys=ps2&game=ffxii&pagenum=1&pages=4


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## LrdApoc (Nov 1, 2006)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Ok, so how is the license board system?  I'm not really sold on it myself, but I haven't got too much info on it yet.  I liked the sphere grid from FFX since I could make any of the heros into what I wanted (mostly making Kimari, Lulu, and Yuna full White + Black Mages).  How does the license board stack up?  Also how does the leveling system work for people not in the active party?  I heard that they get License Points too, but is it the same amount or different?
> 
> How about the Gambit system?  Is it hard to use?  Are there any basic gambit set-ups that pretty much everyone should have?




Well its growing on me. The idea that you have to buy a license and then in fact buy the ability with Gil is a little frustrating at times - unlike in X where you spent the development points and got the ability here you buy the right to buy the ability or to purchased the armor or weapon type.

It is also far more a general system than the sphere grid - everyone has the same potential - you choose how to customize them.


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## ThirdWizard (Nov 1, 2006)

Of course its a must by, its a Final Fantasy.


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## Arnwyn (Nov 1, 2006)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I'd expect nothing less from my alt-screen name.


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## DonTadow (Nov 2, 2006)

LrdApoc said:
			
		

> Well its growing on me. The idea that you have to buy a license and then in fact buy the ability with Gil is a little frustrating at times - unlike in X where you spent the development points and got the ability here you buy the right to buy the ability or to purchased the armor or weapon type.
> 
> It is also far more a general system than the sphere grid - everyone has the same potential - you choose how to customize them.



Yeah I just realized that you have to buy everything with gil from tactics to spells. I expected spells and waeapons but not tactics, that sucks. Still the story is moving me along and I like this hunt thing though

SPOILER:::



















The wrath is kicking my but right now


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## John Crichton (Nov 3, 2006)

Finally got a chance to pop this one in for a few hours tonight and I am loving it.  The whole FF Tactics feel in the menus and style is simply great.  The new combat system totally works for me and I can't wait to really start customizing on the license board.

This one is certainly a must-buy for any RPG fan at this point...


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## Shalimar (Nov 3, 2006)

So what is everyone doing with their characters weapon and armor wise?

Right now:
Vaan has Swords + Spears, Light Armor
Balthier has Guns + All White Magic, Heavy Armor
Fran has Bows + Poles, Heavy Armor
Basche has Swords + Axes, Heavy Armor

Its hard to differentiate people in the beginning as they all start in the same general space.

......
Can anyone help me find the cluckotrace  I cleared out all of the Giza plains except the werewolfs and I couldn't find it.


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## I'm A Banana (Nov 5, 2006)

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. 

As much as it is a Final Fantasy, it definately helps mark a change in feel for the series. It's helmed by Matsuno, which means that instead of anime, you'll be getting a more "european" feel. There's great nations, savage international war, byzantine politics....it's more like World War 2 + War of the Roses in feel. It's far less trapped in the anime archetypes than most other FF's. 

The Liscence Board is annoying me a bit, but I'm an archetype kind of player -- the LB means that characters will share many of the most useful abilities, with only a small amount of diversification. I'm still pretty early in the game, though. I'm hoping the quickenings and the espers will give me a better handle on it, and that, as I grab more weapons and armor and spells, I can split the characters' skills a bit more. 

One thing I'm really noticing is the difficulty of the game. There's some very hard critters....the level 30+ T-rex wandering around the first zone is proof enough of that! There's a good chance you won't be able to afford the best stuff for your position in the game, either.


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## DonTadow (Nov 5, 2006)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> The Liscence Board is annoying me a bit, but I'm an archetype kind of player -- the LB means that characters will share many of the most useful abilities, with only a small amount of diversification. I'm still pretty early in the game, though. I'm hoping the quickenings and the espers will give me a better handle on it, and that, as I grab more weapons and armor and spells, I can split the characters' skills a bit more.



Yeah it is amazing but thelicense thing bothers me a bit too. ONly because I want to get the mists early on so whereas I purchased essentials I've been concentrating on getting everyone a good mist ability early, though i can't say I enjoy the use of all your magic for the one spell, it just means I need to carry a heck of a lot more ethers. 

So far Va'an is a dagger/minor white mage specialist, Fran is going bows and all dark magic (black, time, green), Asche is going straight white and maces, I see Basch going with some axes and heavy weapons with a lot of special abilities, Penolope is going to be a backup white mage with a specialization in swords and the gun guy will.. stick with what he knows best, though I'm tempted to give him a tad of dark magic for backup support for fran. 

Sadly, I learned about the T-rex the hard way. I applied final fantasy logic.

"hey they will never put anythingi  cant kill around chump monsters". 

Soon two party members were dead and I was sprinting back to the city as fast as I could.


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## Shalimar (Nov 5, 2006)

I put some time into gaining LP and levels, and since all the characters have equal LP regardless of when they joined the party, the last 3 characters to jkoin the party, Bashe, Penelo and Ashe all started with enough LP that I gave all 3 the maximum number of quickenings immediately.  Right now the only real difference in the characters is weapons, they all possess white and black magic as well as a few levels of green and time.


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## DonTadow (Nov 5, 2006)

I had my first personal sidetrack moment. This is usually something in afinal fantasy game I get so intrigued with and has nothing to do with the main game (blitzball in final fantasy 10). It took me an hour, but I managed to kill 150 of those sand things straight while in the sandsea area.


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## cincinnati reds (Nov 6, 2006)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Can anyone help me find the cluckotrace  I cleared out all of the Giza plains except the werewolfs and I couldn't find it.




The Cluckatrice is sensitive to Humes... take everyone out of your party but Fran.


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## Shalimar (Nov 6, 2006)

cincinnati reds said:
			
		

> The Cluckatrice is sensitive to Humes... take everyone out of your party but Fran.




The other way to do it which I eventually came across was to kill everything leave and come back.  Once you reenter the chicks that were hiding from the monsters are around andwhen you attack one momma comes out.  I was actually thinking this would be much harder then it was.  A single mist chain was enough to down Cluck before anyone got touched.  Actually up until the white mouse I have never run into enemy boss that stood up to a single quickening chain, granted 12-15 hit quickenings are very powerful, but the ability to kill bosses without even getting touched is a bit much.

I ran into an enemy that I couldn't beat with a quickening chain, make that 2 chains of about 25 hits total.  Didn't even scratch him.  I would suggest that people not take the higher level hunts without being higher level.  Fighting regular enemies 20 levels higher then you on the way to the mark should be an indicator... ouch.  I just didn't think they would put such a high level dungeon in the middle of Rabanastre.


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## cincinnati reds (Nov 6, 2006)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> The other way to do it which I eventually came across was to kill everything leave and come back.  Once you reenter the chicks that were hiding from the monsters are around andwhen you attack one momma comes out.  I was actually thinking this would be much harder then it was.  A single mist chain was enough to down Cluck before anyone got touched.  Actually up until the white mouse I have never run into enemy boss that stood up to a single quickening chain, granted 12-15 hit quickenings are very powerful, but the ability to kill bosses without even getting touched is a bit much.
> 
> I ran into an enemy that I couldn't beat with a quickening chain, make that 2 chains of about 25 hits total.  Didn't even scratch him.  I would suggest that people not take the higher level hunts without being higher level.  Fighting regular enemies 20 levels higher then you on the way to the mark should be an indicator... ouch.  I just didn't think they would put such a high level dungeon in the middle of Rabanastre.




I can't figure out how to make Quickenings work for me to save my life. They.... haven't impressed me. They seem like a huge waste of MP to do minimal damage to a single target.

I did get my first Esper this morning before work, though, and it's pretty swank.


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## Shalimar (Nov 6, 2006)

I have all 18 quickenings unlocked, and believe me, they get better when you have all of them.  When you do a quickening you will get button options for each character during the cut screen.  Hit the button and you will add another quickening to the chain.  As you do more and more quickenings the time you have to input more commands shortens.  If no commands are availible hit r2 and some commands should pop up.

By chaining a lot of quickenings you can do a ton of damage.  I killed the demon wall in the tomb with a single chain.  They really are worth it.  The best way to handle quickenings is to have your 3 person party do your highest level quickening, then swap in a 4th person and have that person do a quickening, then transfer in the 5th and do another quickening, and then do one with the last guy.  You will be totally drained of magic, but anything that can stand up to 50+ quickening hits is out of your league.


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## DonTadow (Nov 7, 2006)

cincinnati reds said:
			
		

> I can't figure out how to make Quickenings work for me to save my life. They.... haven't impressed me. They seem like a huge waste of MP to do minimal damage to a single target.
> 
> I did get my first Esper this morning before work, though, and it's pretty swank.



thanks for asking this questions. and for answering it shalimar. This was my next question. I have manged to get some chains but the pitiful instruction book really leaves me at a blank on how it all works. I"m still having a problem  because after a little while, nothing shows up when i hit the random button. 

By the way does anyone else think this instruction book is lacking from previous versions.


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## Imperialus (Nov 7, 2006)

If I could find a way to hook it to my vein I would.

As for my (still largely theoretical) party makeup I plan on making 2 teams and keeping them within a level of each other.  Everyone has at least a little bit of white magic (1 or 2) to keep each other going.

Team 1:
Vaan: _Heavy Fighter,_ Heavy Armour, Sheild, Sword, lots of Augments.
Ashe: _Light Fighter,_ Light Armour, Spear, Steal, Black Magic.
Penelo: _Battlemage,_ Mystic Armour, All Magic, Bows/Mystic Weapons

Team 2:
Basch: _Heavy Fighter,_ Heavy Armour, Katana/Greatswords, Lots of Augments
Han (er Balthier): _Light Fighter,_ Light Armour, Daggers/Guns, Black Magic.
Chewie (Fran): _Battlemage,_ Mystic Armour, All Magic, Bows/Mystic Weapons


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## cincinnati reds (Nov 7, 2006)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I have all 18 quickenings unlocked, and believe me, they get better when you have all of them.  When you do a quickening you will get button options for each character during the cut screen.  Hit the button and you will add another quickening to the chain.  As you do more and more quickenings the time you have to input more commands shortens.  If no commands are availible hit r2 and some commands should pop up.
> 
> By chaining a lot of quickenings you can do a ton of damage.  I killed the demon wall in the tomb with a single chain.  They really are worth it.  The best way to handle quickenings is to have your 3 person party do your highest level quickening, then swap in a 4th person and have that person do a quickening, then transfer in the 5th and do another quickening, and then do one with the last guy.  You will be totally drained of magic, but anything that can stand up to 50+ quickening hits is out of your league.




Thanks for the intel.


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## DonTadow (Nov 8, 2006)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I have all 18 quickenings unlocked, and believe me, they get better when you have all of them.  When you do a quickening you will get button options for each character during the cut screen.  Hit the button and you will add another quickening to the chain.  As you do more and more quickenings the time you have to input more commands shortens.  If no commands are availible hit r2 and some commands should pop up.
> 
> By chaining a lot of quickenings you can do a ton of damage.  I killed the demon wall in the tomb with a single chain.  They really are worth it.  The best way to handle quickenings is to have your 3 person party do your highest level quickening, then swap in a 4th person and have that person do a quickening, then transfer in the 5th and do another quickening, and then do one with the last guy.  You will be totally drained of magic, but anything that can stand up to 50+ quickening hits is out of your league.



In that tomb, did you defeat both demon walls? Was it just me or was the very first wall a lot more difficult to kill than the second. 

I've also noticed that in that secret area I am getting some amazing drops.


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## cincinnati reds (Nov 8, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> In that tomb, did you defeat both demon walls? Was it just me or was the very first wall a lot more difficult to kill than the second.
> 
> I've also noticed that in that secret area I am getting some amazing drops.




The second wall was cake; the first one, I still haven't gone back to beat. No chance to play last night; was watching election returns. 

What secret area are you talking about? Did I miss something in the tomb? I'm going to head back there to smash the first wall anyway...


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## DonTadow (Nov 8, 2006)

cincinnati reds said:
			
		

> The second wall was cake; the first one, I still haven't gone back to beat. No chance to play last night; was watching election returns.
> 
> What secret area are you talking about? Did I miss something in the tomb? I'm going to head back there to smash the first wall anyway...



I"m still in the tomb. Dont' want to spoil it for you , but its pretty much worth defeating the first wall. I havn't even explored the rest of the place yet.


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## cincinnati reds (Nov 8, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I"m still in the tomb. Dont' want to spoil it for you , but its pretty much worth defeating the first wall. I havn't even explored the rest of the place yet.




You're a good man. Thank you.


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## DonTadow (Nov 30, 2006)

Ok, I guess the honeymoon has ended. A month of playing and I find myself forcing myself to play at times. Is anyone else feeling the repetition. The story just doesnt feel typical epic final fantasy. The boss battles are interesting but the overall innovation is becoming stagnent.


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## IcyCool (Nov 30, 2006)

Thus far, I'm enjoying everything ... except for some elements of the combat system.  Maybe it's because I'm not an MMORPG player, but I despise the Gambit system.  

"Look, we'll give you 6 characters, but only let you play one of them, and if you don't want to do that, you don't have to, the game plays itself!"  Great, but I paid for the game under the apparently novel premise that I'd actually be _playing_ it.  Yes, I know, I don't have to use Gambits, I could theoretically turn them all off and play it that way.  Have you tried it though?  It's painfully clunky.

I also am not a fan of Quickenings.

That said, the story, graphics, license board, and other elements of the game are superb.  These elements, combined with the combat system from FFX, would have made the game a 10 for me (much like Xenosaga and Xenosaga 3), but as is, I'd call it a good solid 8.


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## LightPhoenix (Nov 30, 2006)

IcyCool said:
			
		

> That said, the story, graphics, license board, and other elements of the game are superb.  These elements, combined with the combat system from FFX, would have made the game a 10 for me (much like Xenosaga and Xenosaga 3), but as is, I'd call it a good solid 8.




While I'm not a huge fan of most of the later FF games, I must say that the battle system from FFX is probably my favorite of the series.  It was very innovative for the series, encouraged you to use all the characters, addressed the logical gap of not having everyone in your party at once, and maintained some sort of combat uniqueness.  I would have liked to have seen more characters in the active party though.

When I played the demo, I had a similar experience to yours, I think.  Battles were nifty at first, but very quickly became boring.


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## John Crichton (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm not that far in and only play once (maybe twice) a week and I'm loving the whole thing so far.  Possibly the best FF since VI, but that's really premature.


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## DonTadow (Nov 30, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> While I'm not a huge fan of most of the later FF games, I must say that the battle system from FFX is probably my favorite of the series.  It was very innovative for the series, encouraged you to use all the characters, addressed the logical gap of not having everyone in your party at once, and maintained some sort of combat uniqueness.  I would have liked to have seen more characters in the active party though.
> 
> When I played the demo, I had a similar experience to yours, I think.  Battles were nifty at first, but very quickly became boring.



I've always wanted an mmorpg where there were no one but me. Now that I have it I realize how lonly it is around here. There is so much combat and farming areas that I realize that its the social aspect of those areas that is more appealing to me. As i play XII, I feel like something's missing. Maybe I need to go further in the story, but it feels like i'm disattached from the story.


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## Seonaid (Dec 1, 2006)

I'm just starting to get bored. It's not boredom yet, so maybe pre-boredom? The thing that gets me the most is that some of the bosses require you to run around for a while and fight some random stuff to level up. Why have quests that are straightforward and (story-wise) time-sensitive, if you can't just go straight to them? I had to wander through the desert twice before I was good enough to take on the Tomb guardians.

In general, I love it. I find it much more enjoyable than X, and I play a lot. I actually am quite fond of the LP system and don't mind the "double" buying. I'm sure the way I play would horrify most of you, but it's working really well for me so far.

The best part of the whole game? Fran. I love everything about her.


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## DonTadow (Dec 1, 2006)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> I'm just starting to get bored. It's not boredom yet, so maybe pre-boredom? The thing that gets me the most is that some of the bosses require you to run around for a while and fight some random stuff to level up. Why have quests that are straightforward and (story-wise) time-sensitive, if you can't just go straight to them? I had to wander through the desert twice before I was good enough to take on the Tomb guardians.
> 
> In general, I love it. I find it much more enjoyable than X, and I play a lot. I actually am quite fond of the LP system and don't mind the "double" buying. I'm sure the way I play would horrify most of you, but it's working really well for me so far.
> 
> The best part of the whole game? Fran. I love everything about her.



Complete opposite of me. I find that the main bosses are way too easy and require no real leveling. I kinda like the old school leveling days where you'd have to spend a few hours leveling to fight the next boss. I"m finding it a cakewalk on then. 

But the sidebosses, they are far tougher, which also irks me. Why are the optional bosses far harder than the real ones. I leveled up for 3 hours to fight that big ole' turtle. 

And the cut scenes... do they have to be 30 minutes long? They've just gotten out ofhand with them.


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## Shalimar (Dec 1, 2006)

Well, I have finally filled in the top of the License board for each character as well as maxing out their designated armor.  From here on out I think I am going to swap out the Golden Amulets for the experience neclaces, at least for the active 3 in the party, and leave Amulets on the inactives.  It seems like its going to take forever to get to level 99 since I'm 70+ hours in and I am not even to Nalbina on my way to Draklor.


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## IcyCool (Dec 1, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Complete opposite of me. I find that the main bosses are way too easy and require no real leveling. I kinda like the old school leveling days where you'd have to spend a few hours leveling to fight the next boss. I"m finding it a cakewalk on then.




You know, I wouldn't mind grinding so much if the combat system were more enjoyable.  *sigh* Maybe I'm in the minority, but I desperately hope the next FF game doesn't try to be a single player MMORPG.


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## DonTadow (Dec 1, 2006)

IcyCool said:
			
		

> You know, I wouldn't mind grinding so much if the combat system were more enjoyable.  *sigh* Maybe I'm in the minority, but I desperately hope the next FF game doesn't try to be a single player MMORPG.



No i'm with you on that. I used to want to play an mmorpg by myself, now I don't. The combat feels more repetitive than in previous final fantasies. I'm actually kinda surprised that they didnt do like other mmorpgs and make monsters not agro you after you have surpassed their level. It gets annoying with the frequent attacks everytime i go into the giza plains. 

The next one is suppose to be far more enjoyable. There going back to traditional fantasy for it. My ideal things i'd like in my next finalfantasy 

1. Real Summons: I don't know who these guys are, but it peeves me that they replaced the traditional summoned creatures

2. old school real time battle feel. 

3. 4 or more controlable characters. I know square knows that the majority of people think that final fantasy vi is the best one produced. Why have they not gone back to this design?

4. Different parties with different sets of storylines. Again this was cool in vi and vii when the party split up. REally felt likei was on an epic mission. 

5. fewer and shorter cut scenes. Last week, during one cut scene, I warmed up some food, ate it, washed up and got ready for bed and the cut scene wasn't even over. 

6.  blitzball- ok i know i'm in the minority on this one. but at least a minigame that is fun to play. Maybe i havn't found it yet, but i havn't found any minigames in this game. No snowboarding, no cardplaying nothing. 

7. Perhaps one day we'll get a non-linear story. That would be interesting.


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## Arnwyn (Dec 1, 2006)

IcyCool said:
			
		

> Thus far, I'm enjoying everything ... except for some elements of the combat system.  Maybe it's because I'm not an MMORPG player, but I despise the Gambit system.
> 
> "Look, we'll give you 6 characters, but only let you play one of them, and if you don't want to do that, you don't have to, the game plays itself!"  Great, but I paid for the game under the apparently novel premise that I'd actually be _playing_ it.  Yes, I know, I don't have to use Gambits, I could theoretically turn them all off and play it that way.  Have you tried it though?  It's painfully clunky.



I'm with you here. If there's a critical flaw in this game, for me it'll be the dreadful combat system. I'm much more of a FF 4-7 fan.

Now, I've only played a little tiny bit of it (still getting through other games) as well as the demo, so it might actually get really good - but I consider that to be _highly_ unlikely.


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## Seonaid (Dec 1, 2006)

I agree that it would be really neat to have a nonlinear story. And I can't stand grinding (thanks, IcyCool, for the term), but I don't at all mind the combat. The lack of mini-games doesn't bother me at all. I found the others annoying (I've only ever played X and X-2 though, of the recent ones), especially since blitzball was a requirement to get Waka's special. That's stupid, making an optional part of the game necessary for any reason.

The cut scenes also don't bother me, but it would be nice if they could all be skipped and if they were all in the superior animation. I know that's a lot to ask, but if I have to watch something I can't control, at least make it pretty. I'd pay more for that.

My one gripe about the license board is that some of the skills are useless to characters, depending on how you are aiming them. If, as Shalimar hints, the board will be full before the game is over, what's the point? Of course, I'm only about 17 hours in, so I don't really have a leg to stand on, in this case . . . 

DonTadow, if you're talking about the turtle I think you're talking about, that was a breeze for me. The avian, on the other hand, took FOREVER. Demon Wall 2 was a cinch, though (even without the terrain help). Demon Wall 1 is going to have to wait a bit . . .


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## Vigilance (Dec 2, 2006)

I have to say I havent encountered the "grind" that others speak of here, except by choice. 

I only really needed to power level once, to beat those four damn mandragoras outside of Archades. 

Other than that, all the grinding has been hunting for loot to get a few choice items, but as I can go to the final dungeon at any time, this is by choice. The Cat Ear Hood was pretty easy, making Masamune is really busting my chops right now... 

Chuck


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## ShinHakkaider (Dec 2, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> And the cut scenes... do they have to be 30 minutes long? They've just gotten out ofhand with them.




And that's exactly why I havent bought or played a FF game since 9. I want to play the game not watch the game. If I wanted to do that I've got buttloads of anime that I can sit and watch. I'm replaying FFIV on GBA and loving it despite the graphics. FF IV, VI and Chrono Trigger are probably my favorite Square games, the stories are simple, strong and dont have 3-day long cutscenes. FF VII is a close runner up, but I HATE FFVIII with a passion that defies description. At one point I thought that maybe I wasnt giving it a fair shake so I went back and tried to play it again recently and became just as bored and sleepy as I did several years ago after I put it down.


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## DonTadow (Dec 2, 2006)

ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> And that's exactly why I havent bought or played a FF game since 9. I want to play the game not watch the game. If I wanted to do that I've got buttloads of anime that I can sit and watch. I'm replaying FFIV on GBA and loving it despite the graphics. FF IV, VI and Chrono Trigger are probably my favorite Square games, the stories are simple, strong and dont have 3-day long cutscenes. FF VII is a close runner up, but I HATE FFVIII with a passion that describes description. At one point I thought that maybe I wasnt giving it a fair shake so I went back and tried to play it again recently and became just as bored and sleepy as I did several years ago after I put it down.



I think at some point square mistook the appreciate of the ending to final fantasy 4. Remember the cool 25 minute ending you got and the wedding that rocked. 6 had a decent long ending too. Now the cut scenes are as long as the endings and the specialness is gone. If I didnt have an oath to beat every ff, i probably wouldn't play anymore either. 

I don't know when the cut scenes eclipsed the gameplay. I havn't seen the type of innovation in part 6 since.


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## ShinHakkaider (Dec 2, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I think at some point square mistook the appreciate of the ending to final fantasy 4. Remember the cool 25 minute ending you got and the wedding that rocked. 6 had a decent long ending too. Now the cut scenes are as long as the endings and the specialness is gone. If I didnt have an oath to beat every ff, i probably wouldn't play anymore either.
> 
> I don't know when the cut scenes eclipsed the gameplay. I havn't seen the type of innovation in part 6 since.




Wow, now that you mention it when I finished FF IV on the SNES way back when that ending WAS awesome and made me look forward to VI (akaFF III on the SNES). It was like watching your heroes being rewarded for all of thier efforts and also rewarding you the player as well. That was the one thing that I hated about FF VII, the weak-ass ending. Especially after the endings of IV (FFII) and VI FFIII). 

Also I dont think there are any truly cool things in the other FF's like the actions the twin magicians in IV take to ensure that the rest of the party survive. It's kind of a spoiler, but for those who have played the game know exactly what I'm talking about.


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## Vigilance (Dec 3, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I think at some point square mistook the appreciate of the ending to final fantasy 4. Remember the cool 25 minute ending you got and the wedding that rocked. 6 had a decent long ending too. Now the cut scenes are as long as the endings and the specialness is gone. If I didnt have an oath to beat every ff, i probably wouldn't play anymore either.
> 
> I don't know when the cut scenes eclipsed the gameplay. I havn't seen the type of innovation in part 6 since.




Eh, I didnt find the cutscenes that bad in this one, at least in terms of their length. 

I think there were several cut scenes in FF X, for example, that were longer. I just think these cut scenes feel longer because the story isn't quite as strong as FF X. 

I think FF XII is more about an action RPG gameplay experience, dungeon crawling and all. Depending on how you feel about that as a game experience will probably affect how you feel about the game. 

Still, I beat the game with a party of 50-55th level characters, which I had at about the 80 hour mark, so I think you could complete this game quite a bit more quickly if you just got tired of it.

Also, directed to Don and others who aren't liking the cutscenes, you CAN skip them in this (hit the Start button and then hit X).

I agree the story isn't as strong and was tempted to skip some of the long cut-scenes myself. I probably will skip them when I play it again.

But having just spent 115 hours playing a game that I will definitely play again, it's hard for me not to say it's good 

I do agree with some of the points you're making though Don.

Chuck


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## DonTadow (Dec 3, 2006)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Eh, I didnt find the cutscenes that bad in this one, at least in terms of their length.
> 
> I think there were several cut scenes in FF X, for example, that were longer. I just think these cut scenes feel longer because the story isn't quite as strong as FF X.
> 
> ...



Problem is there is some important story stuff somewhere in the long cut scenes, which means you got to watch them or at least have them playing while you do other things. I just got a case of the old school nostalgia that  ialways get playing an ff game. 

FF games are like getting "that" call from an ex. You go over thinking its going to be like old times , you play it, you reminisce and then you curdle in the fetal position and cry afterwards because it'll never be like it used to be.


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## BRP2 (Dec 3, 2006)

> Sadly, I learned about the T-rex the hard way. I applied final fantasy logic.
> 
> "hey they will never put anythingi cant kill around chump monsters".




Since when was this not traditional in a FF ;o? I especially remember T-Rexes. In FF8's beginning area.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 3, 2006)

BRP2 said:
			
		

> Since when was this not traditional in a FF ;o? I especially remember T-Rexes. In FF8's beginning area.




In general, FF1-7 and 9.

FF1 had those ogres near the elf town that were difficult, but certainly not unbeatable.

I'm sure there are one or two other instances, but for the most part you've always had to seek out difficult battles.


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## Vigilance (Dec 3, 2006)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Problem is there is some important story stuff somewhere in the long cut scenes, which means you got to watch them or at least have them playing while you do other things. I just got a case of the old school nostalgia that  ialways get playing an ff game.
> 
> FF games are like getting "that" call from an ex. You go over thinking its going to be like old times , you play it, you reminisce and then you curdle in the fetal position and cry afterwards because it'll never be like it used to be.




Lol.

Well some of us still can have great sex with our exes, even though it's not like it once was 

I mean, I thought FF X was the best ever and that was like umm... 5 years ago (god it seems like it was the 70's). 

The story in XII didnt grab me the way X's did, but the gameplay sure has. So for me the cut-scenes did feel like I was watching them just to see what happened.

Still... I think audiences are a little jaded at this point perhaps. Maybe it's really time for a new generation. FF VII, and then FF X both blew me away, the scope and graphics of the game going up a notch.

So I almost feel like FF XII might in the same position as FF IX... a game overlooked because everyone is looking toward the NEXT game (and this is the third FF game we had seen for the PS 2 if you count FF X-2, just like FF IX was the third on the PS). 

Still... Id rate it as one of the three best RPGs for the PS2's entire run... so there you go.


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## Seonaid (Dec 3, 2006)

If I thought the story wasn't at all important or interesting, I'd skip the cut scenes. However, I am mildly concerned about it and am afraid I'll miss something that I'll need and/or appreciate later. I definitely am looking forward to playing this game again, and when I do, I'll skip them all.

I don't really have an opinion about the story itself; I'm glad there is one because I don't like wandering around to absolutely no purpose, but "story" also isn't the most important part of a game for me. I'm perfectly happy with a Dark Alliance-type game, where there's a nominal story, but it's not very intrusive. Maybe that's contradictory, but I'm watching football so I don't have all of my brain cells on this post. 

Right now my biggest thing is that I'm constantly thinking of the characters in terms of X. Penelo = Rikku, Ashe = Yuna, etc. It sometimes confuses me. I kind of wish I had used the license board to make them more like their X counterparts, so as to not confuse myself so much!


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