# Include sneak attack w/ Critical?



## mcgeedis (Feb 10, 2007)

I was told that there is a feat or ability out there that allows Sneak Attack damage to be included into the damage multiplier for Critical Hits.  Anyone else ever hear of this?  Wouldn't this be a little bit overpowered, especially when combined with Improved Critical and, say, a rapier?


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## DarkJester (Feb 10, 2007)

It's probably Telling Blow from the PHB2. It doesn't multiply the damage dice but allows you to sneak attack on a critical hit even if you otherwise wouldn't be entitled to those damage dice.


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## Kae'Yoss (Feb 10, 2007)

What DarkJester said. 

I haven't heard about any multiplying sneak attacks. It would be beyond insane. (keen rapier or keen scythe would be completely sick!)


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## Whimsical (Feb 11, 2007)

Recent Sage Advice says that if an attack with Telling Blow is a sneak attack and a critical hit, the sneak attack damage only applies once. Not twice.


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## Unkabear (Feb 11, 2007)

SA counts as extra damage dice.  This is never multiplied for anything.  Though if there was a feat out there that did multiply it it would be as standard a rogue feat as natural spell is to druids.


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## Dheran (Feb 11, 2007)

_Telling Blow_ doesn't let you multiply sneak attack damage any more than flanking an opponent who's also denied their DEX bonus to AC does.  The feat simply adds "critical hit" to the list of conditions that let you apply sneak attack damage.


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## Dross (Feb 12, 2007)

mcgeedis said:
			
		

> I was told that there is a feat or ability out there that allows Sneak Attack damage to be included into the damage multiplier for Critical Hits.  Anyone else ever hear of this?  Wouldn't this be a little bit overpowered, especially when combined with Improved Critical and, say, a rapier?





I'd be asking the teller to show me book/page number before I beleive anything like that.

Actually, it's a good practice to ask for a DM anyway. It allows the DM to read the feat/spell/item to decide whether they want it in their game,and to check what it does.


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## Wavestone (Feb 13, 2007)

One of the interesting things about Telling Blow, is that it is skewed towards weapons with a wide crit range, as there is no multiplier involved.

Multipliers _and_ crit ranges together make weapons balanced towards each other. 20/x3 and 19-20/x2 is considered equal. But with telling blow, you would never use an axe or pick - crit range determines all, so rapier/scimitar/falchion/kukri it is!

Good or bad? Telling blow would be a little too nice if the dice were multiplied.. sure, a pick would result in humongous damage, but I think in practice, it would be overkill in mony cases... in practice rapier would be more consistently good. Certainly too good for a feat, IMO..  

An idea for a feat that preserves the crit range/crit mult issue, would be a feat that adds +1 damage for each sneak attack dice on a critical?  Meaning that a 9th level Rogue (with a 12 Str) criticalling with a +2 light pick would deal (1d4 +1 +2 +5)x4 = 42 average damage.

Change the extra damage to +2 for each sneak attack die, and call the feat Improved Telling Blow, perhaps? A 9th lvl rogue would deal 20 extra damage on a crit with a rapier (+10 for the feat, x2) - with a battleaxe, +30 damage, and with a pick +40 damage.

Otherwise, I agree with the above posters.. as written, you just get one more situation where to apply the sneak attack dice.. no multiplications!


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## Justin Cray (Feb 13, 2007)

Dheran said:
			
		

> _Telling Blow_ doesn't let you multiply sneak attack damage any more than flanking an opponent who's also denied their DEX bonus to AC does.  The feat simply adds "critical hit" to the list of conditions that let you apply sneak attack damage.




Would Uncanny Dodge negate Telling Blow then?


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## Kae'Yoss (Feb 13, 2007)

Wavestone said:
			
		

> One of the interesting things about Telling Blow, is that it is skewed towards weapons with a wide crit range, as there is no multiplier involved.
> 
> Multipliers _and_ crit ranges together make weapons balanced towards each other. 20/x3 and 19-20/x2 is considered equal. But with telling blow, you would never use an axe or pick - crit range determines all, so rapier/scimitar/falchion/kukri it is!




Well, it's not as if most sneak attackers would bother with axes or scythes, anyway. And in my opinion, a high probability of doing crits fits the theme more. All Telling Blow does is make the choice of weapon even more obvious.


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## Dheran (Feb 13, 2007)

Justin Cray said:
			
		

> Would Uncanny Dodge negate Telling Blow then?



_Telling Blow_'s function to add sneak attack damage is predicated on making a critical hit.  Uncanny Dodge lets you retain your DEX bonus to AC when caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.  Confirming a critical hit is all that's required for _Telling Blow_, so Uncanny Dodge does nothing to stop the sneak attack damage allowed by this feat.


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## Destil (Feb 13, 2007)

Wavestone said:
			
		

> Good or bad? Telling blow would be a little too nice if the dice were multiplied.. sure, a pick would result in humongous damage, but I think in practice, it would be overkill in mony cases... in practice rapier would be more consistently good. Certainly too good for a feat, IMO..



If it's an issue I think the best solution may be to vary the die size depending on the multiplier:
x2 - d4
x3 - d6
x4 - d8

Still weighted towards the higher threat ranges but a little less so...


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