# Constructing and Working out the Epic Game



## Creamsteak (Sep 12, 2002)

Well... I decided I'd at least offer to start the construction of the Epic Game. I figure the characters will take more than a week to really finish, refine, describe, and tailor to the campaign. For right now, I'm going to lay out the simple rules I'm going to follow for figuring out characters. The groundwork I guess.

Just remember that this game will go from very non-combat to hardcore save or die and six heroes versus an entire natio. I'll also try and sumarrize about a year at a time after every major break comes up, and move right back into the action points of the game. Big focus might be needed for longevity, and I guess we should probably create our own "Epic" campaign setting. The logic here is that none of the other campaign settings truely focus on the Epic characters, but this one will need to in order to have fun. Not to mention it will give everyone some extra freedom for backgrounds and stuff, that goes beyond knowing the setting beforehand.

I'm going to create a character as well, heads up.

Everyone starts with 666,000 xp and 6,600,000 gp (3/4ths of average).

1. ABILITY SCORES
I'm going to say use Point buy, at 48 points, just enough to get scores all to start at 15, or mix and match as you choose.

2. CHOOSE CLASS AND RACE
No restrictions to start with. I'm using ECL=Hit Dice. Monster Manual, Deities and Demigods, Manual of the Planes, Psionics Handbook creatures, no magazine, internet, or non WOTC selections. Must have Advancement by Character Class. Divine Rank 0 is available for +10 ECL. Divine Rank 1 = +20 ECL. 2=+24, 3=+28, 4=+32, 5=+36

3. Assign and Adjust Ability Score

4. Starting Package (not applicable)

5. Record Racial and Class Features

6. Select Skills

7. Select Feats.

8. Review Description

9. Select Equipment - Equipment equal in value to 6,600,000 gold pieces. No single item worth more than 440,000 gold pieces. Fortresses and such can be bought, among other things. If you have a craft item feat, such as craft wonderous item, you can craft an item for yourself by sacrificing the normal amount of Experience, and paying the base cost to create the item.

10. Record a Stat-Block: Use monster manual format, for easy reading for me. This is in addition to your normal character information, however you choose to record that.

11. Details


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## Creamsteak (Sep 12, 2002)

Allignments are not restricted. I would like a mixed good/evil group that has adventured together at least in individual cases. Perhaps each of you has met every other individual, just never together.

The focus of this campaign will likely be very broad with multiple epic fronts that must be dealt with constantly. I'm not sure about planar travel, but I'm thinking all of those presented in the Manual of the Planes will exist, and others.

Sometimes I will divide the group, not intentionally, but because your opinions will differ. I will try very hard to prevent in-fighting, but competitive goals are encouraged.

There will be a pretty thick cast of NPCs and I'll make a thread in the rogue gallery specifically to track NPCs histories, and knowledge you have of them. This thread will accept donations from players, including countries, planes, people, creatures, and organizations. This will be seperate from the Player Character gallery.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 12, 2002)

Also, on another note,

If you can co-dm this, that would be fantastic. I don't want to devote a great deal of time to this game, not more than what I normally do. The co-dms resposnibilities (and I would encourage as many players who can to join in this) are to come up with extra elements to throw into the game. Encounters I can run pretty smoothly, so those will be my responsibility to manage, but motivations, story-arcs, non-player characters, and anythign else to color the game is heavily encouraged (and I'd be very thankful to have a supporting crew of players that also co DM and that helped with such things).


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## Janos Audron (Sep 12, 2002)

CS, is this a new game, or have you already recruited players?


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## Kalanyr (Sep 12, 2002)

I'm in. Won't have time to do a character until Wednesday next week though. .

What level is 666 000 Exp ?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 12, 2002)

Level 36. Most players have already applied, but I couldn't care less how many we get, considering how long it's going to take to really start.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 12, 2002)

I'm in and good/evil u say? Is nice and I'll create some flavor thingy not munch it too much.. at level 36 you should hurt anyway.

And euhh templates what ECL you count for Ghouls, true ghouls, ghasts and Shades?=]

http://home.gwi.net/~rdorman/frilond/rul/dm/ghoul.htm


It also links to the official normal ghoul/ghast template.

And Troll ECL = Monstermanual HD?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 12, 2002)

I'm willing to co-dm btw =]


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## Janos Audron (Sep 12, 2002)

You bet I'm in. If you want, I will make some villains...


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## Dalamar (Sep 12, 2002)

> No restrictions to start with. I'm using ECL=Hit Dice. Monster Manual, Deities and Demigods, Manual of the Planes, Psionics Handbook creatures, no magazine, internet, or non WOTC selections.



Does this include class selections? Cause as I'm reading it, it only concerns race (wishful thinking maybe?).
I might be taking a few levels of Hero if it's allowed, then going Psion and Constructor. But then I'd need the Constructor's epic advancement, which isn't out yet.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 12, 2002)

I think I might want to get in on this as well. 

Always wanted to plays a 36th level Savant.  

Or maybe an Arcane Trickster....

Will you accept Bruce Cordell's varient prestige classes?

They can be found here. 

I mean, they were written by the PHB author.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 12, 2002)

*Mind's Eye??*

I know you said no net resources, but the psion is really only supported on the net.

Will you allow stuff from WOTC's Minds Eye?

I'm specificly interested in The Crystal Master


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 12, 2002)

Count me in!

Do we post characters here?

Does the 48 point-buy include or exclude bonuses every 4th level?

Can we use the standard stat block format instead of monster manual stat block? (I'm partial to the original one)

I think that's all the questions I have...
Later!


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## Dalamar (Sep 12, 2002)

I just had a mean idea: can I play a puppeteer (from PsiHB) ?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 12, 2002)

lol =]

That's cool


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 12, 2002)

Count me in, I'd love to play (Demilich or Faithless Lover from Creature Collection I if you would allow it) although if theres too many players already I can co-DM I guess


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## reapersaurus (Sep 13, 2002)

pardon my naivete in epic character generation, but can't you make a PC that's virtually unstoppable at that high of level?

Some kind of thing that can only be touched by ethereal means and then making them immune to ethereal (or intangible) touch?

And the attributes would be absurd!
You can get Strength up above 100 I know....

And don't you just about have to be a spellcaster at high levels to survive against high magic?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *pardon my naivete in epic character generation, but can't you make a PC that's virtually unstoppable at that high of level?
> 
> Some kind of thing that can only be touched by ethereal means and then making them immune to ethereal (or intangible) touch?
> 
> ...




For every invulnerable guy, there are three more guys that are just as invlunerable, and can kill the invulnerable guy when they get together. Besides, complete and true immortality is boring for games.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Count me in, I'd love to play (Demilich or Faithless Lover from Creature Collection I if you would allow it) although if theres too many players already I can co-DM I guess *



Co DMs can be players too! Also, give me the link and I'll look.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> *I just had a mean idea: can I play a puppeteer (from PsiHB) ? *




They have no advancement, so no. You could polymorph into one, and get the main abilities from an epic spell though.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

Cloudgatherer said:
			
		

> *Count me in!
> 
> Do we post characters here?
> 
> ...




I'm partial to monster manual, but only for the DM to read when you guys are fighting. You can record the information in any other format as well, but that's what I want posted when I make the rogue's gallery.

Point buy at 48 does not include the bonuses every 4th level. Tell me about your character before you post him anywhere, so I can get a grip on myself first.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Mind's Eye??*



			
				Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *I know you said no net resources, but the psion is really only supported on the net.
> 
> Will you allow stuff from WOTC's Minds Eye?
> 
> I'm specificly interested in The Crystal Master *




I'd consider it. I havn't checked the link yet, but I do know of some of the internet's psionics variants and such, so it will be looked at. BTW, I'm limiting races more than classes, and internet or magazine classes are not completely out of line, but races are. This being because I'm using ECL=HD which makes some creatures insane, but keeps most reasonable.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *I'm in and good/evil u say? Is nice and I'll create some flavor thingy not munch it too much.. at level 36 you should hurt anyway.
> 
> And euhh templates what ECL you count for Ghouls, true ghouls, ghasts and Shades?=]
> 
> ...




I'll look at the link later, but yes, Troll ECL = Monstermanual HD.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 13, 2002)

And how much do you count a quickling ecl?


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## Zack2216 (Sep 13, 2002)

I was wondering if I could get in too?

Go Druid!CN

also, you haven't addressed epic spells. do you allow them? do they have the same max gp cost like the item limit?


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 13, 2002)

I'm thinking a rogue type character who hunts for lost treasure type stuff by contract.  Items lost for ages, in deep and dark places, that's what this character does!

Sound like a workable idea?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

Everything is sounding good, and everyone can play, the big responsibility here will be breaking everyone down into groups.

BTW, I'm dropping all restrictions on races and classes and such, and everyone can make sure to spend all 8,800,000 gold, even if I told them otherwise before.

You can have epic spells researched, just pay the cost out of your starting xp and starting gold and it's yours.

Here is what I'm thinking for a gaming strategy, since were talking Play by Post. In order to limit the responsibility of ALL players, we break up into small groups of two or three players each, each group with a co-dm that knows at least thier own particular story arc they are following. I answer questions the DMs don't want to answer themselves, and I run combat, cause I think I'm good for that. I link the story arcs, and tell you guys when you overlap.

Every group will post in a particular color-code so that we all know who is in our group, and who is not. We keep it organized that way. Also, if we lose 3 or 6 players, we simply mix groups till we get them right again. Seems neat to me, though I could be an idiot, never know .

I'll have my own color code, which will be for applications to everyone, that's what I'm thinking at least. My job is to deal with our custom world, integrating the races and classes the players introduce, and try and figure out what's going on everywhere. Meanwhile each group deals with specifics event by event. Hell, one group could spend the entire time making money, monopolizing on a city, and selling thier truely incredible spell-power, meanwhile the rest of the players are hack n' slashing an epic dungeon crawl.

This is what I'm thinking now, but I could be delerious.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

Cloudgatherer said:
			
		

> *I'm thinking a rogue type character who hunts for lost treasure type stuff by contract.  Items lost for ages, in deep and dark places, that's what this character does!
> 
> Sound like a workable idea? *




Very workable. It could really play up if my above idea gets player approval. Your rogue could even be his own solo group, who eventually could encounter himself trying to steal an epic item from an epic group that's trying to keep themselves in political control of a magocracy or stuff... this is what I'm thinking, and I'm thinking it could be neat, and relatively simple to play, since we won't be dependant on a mass of players.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

Zack2216 said:
			
		

> *I was wondering if I could get in too?
> 
> Go Druid!CN
> 
> also, you haven't addressed epic spells. do you allow them? do they have the same max gp cost like the item limit? *




Your fine to join. The epic spell part was mentioned above.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 13, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *And how much do you count a quickling ecl? *




If you want to play them, that's fine since I'm saying no restrictions. You might want to raise the ECL a little higher than 0 or 1 though, since they are a bit exotic and quite powerful at ECL 0. I'd estimate 4-6 honestly, they are an exceptional PC race with tons of feats and some pretty sweet abilities.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 13, 2002)

Is this an acceptable race?





> Tulani (greater)Celestial (Eladrin)
> Medium-Sized Outsider (Chaotic, Good)
> Hit Dice: 12d8+48 (102 hp)
> Initiative: +5 (+5 Dex)
> ...





If it is, I'm goint to play a wandering Tulani, on the Prime to deal with any large or powerful fiendish incursions.


Also
What are the ECLS on templates? Since with your system they are ECL +0. Unless they add HD.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 13, 2002)

If you want to see the Alternate forms of the other Eladrin:

(Some of the Attack Bonuses,Movement rates and Hit Dice lines and skill point totals  may be wrong, the Tulani was off by 1 BAB  point which I corrected, and there may be some other similar minor errors) (I'll post any relevant information when I do the character right up).


The conversions are by by Walker, somecallmetim30@hotmail.com


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 13, 2002)

Templates were restricted and he has to think about them for a sec (that were his thoughts on the matter last night )

And we're supposed to be adventuring together for a long time already  so I guess cream or a Co-dm will have to coe up with our histories =]


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## Kalanyr (Sep 13, 2002)

The people do not need to have adventured together , they merely need to know each other. A wandering Tulani could have met/helped a lot of people.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 13, 2002)

ok =]


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## Dalamar (Sep 13, 2002)

So, what about using Four-Color to Fantasy rules?
Grabbing a few powers there would be nice. And then I'm going to go monk all the way, getting Leadership and Epic Leadership to have my own school .


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 13, 2002)

Cool! That's quite a nice idea!=]


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 13, 2002)

I'd like very much to play a half-celestial ancient gold Dragon, Creamsteak. Please.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 13, 2002)

I'm looking at:

Human Psion 20 / Metamind 10 / Crystal Master 6

I'm going to assume you are allowing Bruce Cordell's varients and If Thoughts Could Kill.

Let me know what you need.


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## Janos Audron (Sep 13, 2002)

I'm thinking about wiz 16, Rank 1...


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 13, 2002)

> If Thoughts Could Kill.




If you're gonan take wiz spells but as power variants.. I'm gonna cry :S I am so very much against ITCK "spells" and ability changes just the feats and some sidebars are nice.

I'm thinking of Psychoportation psion 20 / epic psion 5/  deepwoodsniper 10 or something like that


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## Howling Coyote (Sep 13, 2002)

I want join in the fun too. I was thinking playing something like an assassin with divine rank 0.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 13, 2002)

Ah what the heck I'll just be a 36 HD dragon


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 13, 2002)

My treasure hunter will be plain I guess....Ftr6/Rog30.

I've already have most of the character created.  Just about everything but all the items he'll have.  Already picked skill, feats, stats, etc.  Still need to do background and items, but otherwise I'm almost done.

Although, any ideas on a campaign setting?  Makes it a bit easier to do a background if I have some context.


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## Dalamar (Sep 13, 2002)

Read the initial posts carefully, you'll notice that you can make anything you want: cities, regions, NPCs, guilds, organizations, anything.
When everybody is done, they'll be melted into a single campaign setting. That's at least how I understood it.


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 13, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *Ah what the heck I'll just be a 36 HD dragon  *




That is already taken.


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## Janos Audron (Sep 13, 2002)

Is there *any* race *at all* which has a +2 charisma bonus, without ECL?

Or else a race with +4 charisma and some ECL?


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## Dalamar (Sep 13, 2002)

Hmm...
No word from creamy yet if I can use FCTF rules...
I'll go ahead and make the char with them, he can be edited to take them away if I'm not allowed to use them.


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## KaintheSeeker (Sep 13, 2002)

Drat late again.. hate busy weeks.. Anyway, give me a holler if there is an opening.


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## Dalamar (Sep 13, 2002)

Somebody tell me how are we handling Int raising magic items and skill points?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 14, 2002)

Want a Dragon Partner? let's make little babies


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 14, 2002)

I "set" my Int raise to kick in at at level 26, giving 10 levels of beneficial skill points.  Since I don't have an Int item (might not get one for Ftr/Rog) might not need it.  If that's not acceptable, let me (us) know.


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## Dalamar (Sep 14, 2002)

Here's my char, no name or history or description yet. Abilities listed in brackets are unmodified stats, skill points don't include any increase in Int.

Character's name here, Monk 32/Hero 5
Medium-sized Outsider (Human)
*HD:* 32d8+5d4+148
*Initiative:* +10 (Dex)
*Speed:* 140ft, Climb 70ft
*AC:* 49 (+10 Dex, + 16 Monk, +3 Deflection, +10 _bracers of armor_)
*Attacks:* Unarmed attack +35/+32/+29/+26/+23 melee
*Damage:* Unarmed attack d20+6 slashing, threat range 18-20
*Face/Reach:* 5ft by 5ft/ 5ft (10ft with Unarmed attacks)
*Special Attacks:* _Abundant Step_, Ghost Touch, Haste, Heightened Accuracy (Unarmed attack), Increased Reach (Unarmed Attack), _Ki_ Strike +3, Quivering Palm, Unarmed Strike, Stunning Attack
*Special Qualities:* Diamond Body, Diamond Soul, Empty Body, Enhanced Vision, Fast Recovery, Heightened Defenses, Improved Evasion, Inechaustible Endurance, Leap of the Clouds, Perfect Self, Purity of Body, Self-subsistent, Slow Fall (Any distance), Spiderclimb, Still Mind, Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Water Breathing, Wholeness of Body
*Saves:* Fort +26, Ref +30, Will +29
*Abilities:* Str (11) 23 (+6), Dex (18) 31 (+10), Con (12) 23 (+6)
Int (10) 21 (+5), Wis (16) 29 (+9), Cha (17) 30 (+10)
*Skills:* Climb 43, Diplomacy 40, Jump 37, Listen 38, Spot 38, Tumble 50
*Feats:*Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Expertise, Improved Critical (Unarmed attack), Leadership,  Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Unarmed attack), Whirlwind Attack.
*Epic Feats:*Epic Leadership, Epic Weapon Focus (Unarmed attack), Exceptional Deflection, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Infinite Deflection, Keen Strike, Legendary Commander.
*Alignment:* Lawful Neutral

*Abilities*
_Abundant Step:_ Can _Dimension Door_ 1400ft as a spell-like ability.
*Diamond Body:* Immune to poison.
*Diamond Soul:* SR 42
*Empty Body:* _Etherealness_ 32 rounds/day, need not be consecutive. Supernatural.
*Enhanced Vision:* Superpowered, persistent. Gained low-light vision. Base cost 2.
*Fast Recovery:* Superpowered, persistent. Heals twice as fast as normal. Base cost 2.
*Ghost Touch:* Supernatural, persistent. Unarmed attacks affect incorporeal creatures normally. Base cost 5, -1 reduction because supernatural.
*Haste:* Supernatural, persistent. Gains an extra partial action each round, doesn't stack with _haste_. Base const 12, -1 reduction because supernatural.
*Heightened Accuracy (Unarmed attacks):* Superpowered, persistent. +3 bonus to unarmed attack rolls. Base cost 1, heightened accuracy x2 (4 points), -2 only affects unarmed attacks.
*Heightened Defenses:* Superpowered, persistent. Gains a +3 _deflection_ bonus to AC. Base cost 2, increased effect x2 (4 points).
*Improved Evasion:* No damage on a succesfull Ref save, half damage on a failed one.
*Increased Reach (Unarmed attacks):* Superpowered, persistent. Increase natural reach by 5ft. Base cost 2, -1 because only affects unarmed attacks.
*Inexhaustible Endurance:* Superpowered, persistent. Always succeeds in Constitution checks related to endurance. Can never become fatigued, exhausted. Base cost 4.
_Ki_ *Strike:* Can penetrate Damage Reduction as if attacking with a +3 weapon.
*Leap of the Clouds:* No limit on jumping distance.
*Perfect Self:* Becomes an Outsider, gains darkvision 60ft, DR 20/+1.
*Purity of Body:* Immune to all diseases except magical diseases.
*Quivering Palm:* 1/week. Duration 32 weeks. Fort DC 35. Supernatural.
*Self-subsistent:* Superpowered, persistent. Doesn't need to sleep (base cost 1), drink (base cost 1) or eat (base cost 1).
*Slow Fall:* If within arm's reach of a wall, takes no fall damage.
*Spiderclimb:* Superpowered, external gadget. Can climb any normal surface automatically. +25 climb. Needs to wear climbing claws (Tiny, AC 17, Hardness 5, 1hp). Base cost 5, -2 external gadget.
*Still Mind:* +2 saves against spell and effects of Enchantment school.
*Stunning Attack:* 32/day. Fort DC 35 or stunned. Supernatural.
*Timeless body:* Doesn't suffer penalties due to age, can't be magically aged.
*Tongue of the Sun and Moon:* Can speak with any living creature.
*Unarmed Strike:* Doesn't provoke an AoO when attacking unarmed, Flurry of Blows, can deal subdual damage without penalty.
*Water Breathing:* Superpowered, persistent. Quite self-explanatory. Base cost 1.
*Wholeness of Body:* Can cure up to 64hp, supernatural.

*Possessions*
Belt of Constitution +6, Bracers of Armor (+10) and Str (+6), Gloves of Epic Dexterity +8, Headband of Epic Wisdom (+8) and Intelligence (+6), Vest of Epic Charisma +8. All +5 Tomes and Manuals read.
Total cost: 3,525,000gp, rest of the money will be spent on martial arts school.
Now, I need to know if I counted the price for the headbad right: I took the price of an Epic Wisdom +8 and added double the price of Intelligence +6 (since it costs less).

*Followers and Cohort*
20,000 1st level
2,000 2nd level
1,000 3rd level
500 4th level
250 5th level
130 6th level
70 7th level
40 8th level
20 9th level
10 10th level
Total: 24,020 followers. Levels 1-2 are warriors, level 3 experts, upper level ones are monks.
(Corrected error in number of followers.)

Cohort: Human Monk24/Hero 5
Stats to come later.


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## Dalamar (Sep 14, 2002)

I took the Hero levels at character levels 21-25, to represent what I gained from Perfect Self. My cohort will take the same package.


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 14, 2002)

I didn't know we were supposed to post here.  DM, any word on that?

My character is done except for background and possessions.  Still working on it.


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## Zack2216 (Sep 14, 2002)

I was wondering, for wildshape purposes, will you allow me to abuse the wildshape rules that say I change by type? 

I was hoping to be able to fly around as a paragon air elemental.

Anyway, because I can expect that to not be allowed, what creatures will I be familiar with for the use of wildshape and shapechange? You would think I would be extremely affluint with all of the different types of monsters.  I was thinking of being familiar with all creatures with CR 36 or less, considering I am epic and am pretty sure I have seen all of them. Just curious.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

Lichtenhart
I'd like very much to play a half-celestial ancient gold Dragon, Creamsteak. Please.  

Reply: That is fine. I'm having trouble coming up with a blanket rule for templates myself. How about we focus just on the ability scores provided. Add them all up, +6 = +1 ECL, +12 = +2 ECL, +18 = +3 ECL, +24 = +4 ECL. Also, there's a limiter. For ECL +1 you can have no bonus greater than +2. For ECL +2 you can have no bonus greater than +4. For ECL +3 you can have no bonus greater than +6. So... if you were an absolute templeted paragon, with +10 to all attributes (+60 total), you would be ECL +10, same as divine rank 0. Seems pretty fair to me.

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Ashrem Bayle
I'm looking at:

Human Psion 20 / Metamind 10 / Crystal Master 6

I'm going to assume you are allowing Bruce Cordell's varients and If Thoughts Could Kill.

Let me know what you need.

Reply: Depends on your co-DM. If they have the book, then that's good enough. If they don't you will need to post the applicable rules in your post in the rogues gallery, when it's opened. 

Note: ITCK is fine.

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Janos Audron
 I'm thinking about wiz 16, Rank 1... 

Note: k.

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 The Forsaken One
 Ah what the heck I'll just be a 36 HD dragon  

Note: k.

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 Janos Audron
 Is there *any* race *at all* which has a +2 charisma bonus, without ECL?

Reply: Or else a race with +4 charisma and some ECL? 

+2 Charisma, -2 somethign, and write up the race. If you have no other recourse, this is what I recommend. 

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Dalamar
 Hmm...
No word from creamy yet if I can use FCTF rules...
I'll go ahead and make the char with them, he can be edited to take them away if I'm not allowed to use them.

Reply: Yes, you can use them, but your co-dm will have to either have the book, or you will need to type up the rules that apply to your character for me. I think I'm getting the signal people want to play psionics are different, tell me if so.

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 Cloudgatherer
 I "set" my Int raise to kick in at at level 26, giving 10 levels of beneficial skill points. Since I don't have an Int item (might not get one for Ftr/Rog) might not need it. If that's not acceptable, let me (us) know. 

Reply: What's the official way of dealing with it? I thought you gain skill points for every normal, racial, and bonus int modifier point for every character level, as if you always had that much INT, but items don't apply.

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Cloudgatherer
 I didn't know we were supposed to post here. DM, any word on that?

My character is done except for background and possessions. Still working on it.

Reply: cool. I wouldn't say don't post here, this is the construction thread, which I'll subdivide into three or so threads when the time comes. One will be for characters, one for storylines, plots, continents and such, and one for us to work on rules and stuff.

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Zack2216
 I was wondering, for wildshape purposes, will you allow me to abuse the wildshape rules that say I change by type? 

I was hoping to be able to fly around as a paragon air elemental.

Anyway, because I can expect that to not be allowed, what creatures will I be familiar with for the use of wildshape and shapechange? You would think I would be extremely affluint with all of the different types of monsters. I was thinking of being familiar with all creatures with CR 36 or less, considering I am epic and am pretty sure I have seen all of them. Just curious. 

Reply: If it's against the rules, I don't see why you should break them. If you feal it should be part of the campaign world as some divine feat, epic feat, normal feat, prestige class, or such, just tell me.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

*My current character stat block*

*The Lady of the Frozen Orb*
*Yuki-On-Na Khanduran Sorceress 8/Ice Elemental Savant 20
Medium-Size Fey (Cold, Spirit)
Hit Dice: 8d6+24 (fey) + 8d4+24 (khanduran sorceress) + 20d4+60 (elemental savant) (191 hp)
Initiative: +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 19 (+1 Dex, +4 deflection, +4 natural)
Attacks: Touch +17 melee touch
Damage: Touch 1d10 cold
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Chill metal, cold focus 7, cold penetration 6, ice mastery, mental warmth 4/day, paralyzing gaze, spell-like abilities, sorcerer spells
Special Qualitites: Cold subtype, elemental, lose the way, ice paraelemental perfection
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +17, Will +29
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 13, Wis 21, Cha 35
Skills: Bluff +23 (11), Concentration +31 (28), Knowledge (Arcana) +29 (28), Knowledge (The Planes) +29 (28), Listen +16 (11), Sense Motive +16 (11), Spellcraft +29 (28), Spot +17 (11)
Feats: Arcane Preperation, Alertness, Dodge, Energy Admixture (Cold), Energy Substitution (Cold), Heighten Spell, Greater Spell Focus (Evocation), Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Evocation).
Epic Feats: Epic Spell Focus (Evocation), Improved heighten Spell, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Spell Capacity, Improved Spell Capacity, Spell Knowledge.

Chill Metal (Su): As an elemental savant of 10th level, the savant has learned how to perform the ice paraelemental's signiture attack. This power functions like the druid spell of the same name [DC 23 (20 + Constitution modifier)], except that it affects everything within the given radius. As with the spell, it takes 3 rounds for affected metal to reach the freezing stage. Once it does, it remains at that stage until the ice paraelemental takes a standard action to end the effect. The metal returns to its starting temperature 2 rounds later, just as with the spell.

Cold Focus (Ex): +7 to all spell DCs with the Cold Subtype.

Cold Penetration (Ex): +6 to caster level checks in order to overcome spell resistance

Ice Mastery (Ex): The sorceress can magnify the effect of a sorcery spell that deals cold damage. This ability allows a second damage roll, and the sorceress takes the best roll of the two. For example, if 6d6 points of damage are called for, a sorceress rolls 6d6 twice and takes the highest total.
Special: The sorceress must be stationary the round of casting to exert mastery.

Mental Warmth (Su): By mentally tracing the secret runes of conception, the sorceress can try to replenish her magical energy. Doing so requires an Intelligence check with a DC equal to 15 plus the spell's level. If the check is successful, the sorceress regains the ability cast a spell of the chosen level. A sorceress cannot take 10 or 20 on this check.
Special: The sorceress can attempt this ability once per day per two levels (round down). 

Paralyzing Gaze (Su): A yuki-on-na can paralyze creatures with a look. This is similar to a gaze attack, except the yuki-on-na must take a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the yuki-on-na targets must succeed at a Will save [(DC 40) 10 + 1/2 HD + Charisma Modifier] or be affected as though by a hold monster spell cast by an 8th-level sorcerer. The ability has a range of 30 feet.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will - change self, comprehend languages, detect thoughts. These abilities are as the spells cast by an 35th-level sorcerer (save DC 22 + spell level).

Sorcerer Spells Per Day: 6/9/9/9/9/8/8/8/8/7/3/3/3
Prepared Spells
10th Level - Energy Admixed (Cold) Chain Lightning (DC 45/38) x3
11th Level - Energy Admixed (Cold) Thunder Storm (DC 46/39) x3
12th Level - Energy Admixed (Cold) Delayed Blast Fireball (DC 47/40) x3

Sorcerer Spells Known: 
0 Level Spells - Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance, Ray of Frost
1st Level Spells - Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt, Lesser Cold Orb, Lesser Electric Orb, Lesser Fire Orb
2nd Level Spells - Charged Bolt, Frost Nova, Ice Blast, Inferno, Static Field
3rd Level Spells - Blaze, Fireball, Frozen Armor, Lightning Bolt, Nova, Shiver Armor, Telekinetic Blast
4th Level Spells - Glacial Spike, Fire Wall, Teleport Self
5th Level Spells - Energy Shield, Meteor, Cone of Cold
6th Level Spells - Chain Lightning, Enchant, Greater Dispelling
7th Level Spells - Chilling Armor, Energy Immunity, Thunder Storm
8th Level Spells - Blizzard, Delayed Blast Fireball, Frozen Orb, Hydra
9th Level Spells - Gate, Meteor Swarm, Time Stop, Wish


Cold Subtype (Ex): Cold immunity; double damage from fire except on a successful save.

Elemental: Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning. Not subject to critical hits.

Lose the Way (Sp): Once per day, a yuki-on-na can touch a victim and cause him to be completely unable to find his way anywhere for the next 3d6 hours. The character cannot use the Intuit Direction skill, and cannot use Wilderness Lore to avoid becoming lost. The character cannot even find his way out of a closet without assistance, though he is perfectly capable of following other characters.*


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

My character's backgorund will involve Frigidarch from the creature collection. He's the bad guy on the plane of ice, I'm the good girl. Basically I fight against him and his evil, and he tries to rid me from his worries. Detailing it will be fun, and likely my characters main motivation will be fightin him, and possibly crushing enemies of my allies when I get spare time.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

Someone was curious about divine ranks as they are associated with ability scores. I can't find the hard rule, and I don't know if there is one, but I'll give a shot at trying to deduce what they have done.

I'm basing my deduction on Hercules from the Olympiant Pantheon. As a rank 5 demi-god, he's a decent starting point

Str 55, Dex 25, Con 28, Int 20, Wis 21, Cha 24

He's level 40, so I'll be the 10 points of ability scores were applied to strength

Str 45

If we reduce all of his abilities by 10....

Str 35, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 14...

So only strength is blown out of proportion... ok here's what I'm betting...

He has +30 to 1 stat, +10 to 5 other stats. So, for each of his divine ranks he has +6, +2, +2, +2, +2, +2.

So my ruling, based on just 1 god is that for each divine rank, you get to distribute these bonuses:

+6, +2, +2, +2, +2, +2.

There is no bonus for Rank 0.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

I'm a little bored, so I'll test the same theory with Hades now.
He's level 50, and DR 17.

Str 42, Dex 28, Con 42, Int 29, Wis 30, Cha 29

130 points over stats of 3-18 (rounded into increments of 10)

15 points are from levels

115 points... 16 points per DR as per the above...

breaks down into about 7 divine ranks... so basically my above estimate was a little too high...

Alright, I'm going to say this then: You gain no new ability scores from divine ranks past 5. So further divine ranks beyond that don't apply to ability score bonuses. That should work for now at least...


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 14, 2002)

Calidor Mathril
Male Human Ftr6/Rog31
HD:  HD 6d10+48 plus 31d6+248 (439)
Initiative:  +17 (+13 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed:  60 ft.
AC:  43 (+12 Dex, +11 Armor, +5 Natural Armor, +5 Deflection)
Attacks:  +44/+44/+44/+44/+39/+39/+34/+34/+29/+29 with short swords
Damage:  1d6+14 (primary hand), 1d6+10 (off-hand), 19-20/x2 with short swords
Face/Reach:  5 ft. by 5 ft. / 5 ft.
Special Attacks:  sneak attack +16d6, crippling strike, opportunist
Special Qualities:  enhanced ability scores, improved evasion, uncanny dodge
Saves:  Fort +30, Ref +39, Will +19
Abilities:  Str 27 (21), Dex 37 (31), Con 27 (21), Int 19, Wis 15, Cha 17.
Skills:  Appraise +24 (20), Balance +25 (10, Tumble Synergy), Climb +23 (15), Decipher Script +24 (20), Diplomacy +25 (20, Sense Motive Synergy), Disable Device +29 (25), Escape Artist +46 (33), Gather Information +28 (25), Hide +46 (33), Jump +23 (5, +10 competence), Listen +35 (33), Move Silently +46 (33), Open Lock +38 (25), Pick Pocket +38 (25), Profession (antique dealer) +7 (5), Search +37 (33), Sense Motive +35 (33), Spot +42 (40), Swim +18 (10), Tumble +25 (10, Jump Synergy), Use Magic Device +32 (29), Use Rope +18 (5).
Feats:  Ambidexterity, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Expertise, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Quick Draw, Spring Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse (short swords)
Epic Feats:  Dexterous Fortitude, Dexterous Will, Dire Charge, Epic Dodge, Lingering Damage, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting.
Alignment:  Chaotic Good.

Calidor speaks common, draconic, and sylvan.

Combat

Crippling Strike:  Opponent takes 1 point of Strength damage on a successful sneak attack.  

Defensive Roll:  Once per day, when a wound would reduce his hit points to 0 or less, he can make a Reflex save (DC = damage) for half damage.  

Enhanced Ability Scores:  Calidor has a +5 inherent bonus to all ability scores. 

Improved Evasion:  No damage on successful Reflex save, half on fail.

Opportunist:  Once per round, Calidor can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent that has been struck.

Slippery Mind:  Can make another Will save against a failed enchantment spell next round.

Uncanny dodge:  is not denied Dexterity bonus when caught flat footed, cannot be flanked except by rogue of four levels or higher (35th), +7 AC against attacks made by traps and +7 Reflex save against traps.

Possessions
two +6 defending short swords of speed (4840K), +1 mithral buckler of heavy fortification (36K), mithral celestial armor (fly at will, +7 chain shirt, permanent magic circle against evil, max Dex +12, 620K), belt of physical prowess (+6 enhancement to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution) (180K), safety amulet (+5 natural armor, +5 resistance, adaptation, health) (153K), ring of spell turning, protection +5, blinking (310K), ring of regeneration, freedom of movement, x-ray vision, sustenance, warmth (229.2K), cloak of major displacement (50K), vest of escape (2K), Tomes:  825K (+5 to all abilities), heward’s handy haversack (2K), bag of holding (2.5K), gem of seeing (always on, even when gem is in his pocket, 150K), carpet of flying (6 by 9, 1200 lb., 120 ft., 15 lb., 53K), boots of striding and springing (6K).

Total:  7458.7K.  Remaining:  1341.3K

Background is a treasure seeker.  A little bit like a deadlier version of Indiana Jones.  He takes contracts for long lost items, negotiates his own prices, and follows up leads and legends by investigating various locations.

The hardest part is probably choosing the items.  I used the standard "doubling" rule for additional powers.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 14, 2002)

Heads up on my character, I am most likely going to play a Shadow of the Void with a single level in something or another class w/ the Leadership/Epic Leadership feats.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

Your character would possibly make an excellent Agent Retriever, in my opinion. Though the rogue levels do have thier own advantages... do you have an ELH to look at the Agent Retriever PrC?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

Interesting, sollir...


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 14, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *Your character would possibly make an excellent Agent Retriever, in my opinion. Though the rogue levels do have thier own advantages... do you have an ELH to look at the Agent Retriever PrC? *




I lent it to a friend of mine, but I'll get it back on Friday.  I think I recall seeing it, but I think I'd stick with rogue.  Once I look over it I'll consider it.  Honestly, the sneak attack is a big part of the character, and I'd rather not give it up with a PrC that does not have it.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 14, 2002)

Hades DR 17
Str 42, Dex 28, Con 42, Int 29, Wis 30, Cha 29


I think the break down might be a little different and I have a theory:

16 Divine Bonus to statistics at DR 0 
+1 Divine Bonus per Divine Rank
And a total of +54 Divine Bonus to each ability score at Divine Rank 1

Assume Hades sarted with straight 15s (Aka our point buy)

  Str 15 Dex 15 Con 15 Int 15 Wis 15 Cha 15

+9 to each stat from Divine Rank 1 (Split evenly)

Str 24 Dex 24 Con 24 Int 24 Wis 24 Cha 24

16 points from Divine Rank 0

Str 26 Dex 24 Con 38 Int 24 Wis 24 Cha 24

17 points from divine rank 17

Str 34 Dex 30 Con 38 Int 27 Wis 24 Cha 24

10 points from character levels 

Str 34 Dex 30 Con 38 Int 29  Wis 30 Cha 26

Size Modifiers

Str +8 Dex -2 Con +4 (For Large Size)

Str 42 Dex 28 Con 42 Int 29 Wis 30 Cha 26

Off by 3 points.

Now trying the same process on Hercules:

Level 40 DR 5
Str 55 Dex 25 Con 28 Int 20 Wis 21 Cha 24


Base
Str 15 Dex 15 Con 15 Int 15 Wis 15 Cha 15

+9 to each stat from Divine Rank 1 (even split)

Str 24 Dex 24 Con 24 Int 24 Wis 24 Cha 24

Doesn't quiet work, so take 4 points from Int, 3 From Wis and add them to strength

Str 32 Dex 24 Con 24 Int 20 Wis 21 Cha 24

(Better)

16 Points from Divine Rank 0 (all into strength)

Str 48 Dex 24 Con 24 Int 20 Wis 21 Cha 24

5 points for divine rank

Str 53 Dex 24 Con 24 Int 20 Wis 21 Cha 24

10 Points from character levels

Str 55 Dex 25 Con 28 Int 20 Wis 21 Cha 24

(2 Points Over)


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

Wow... nice job kal. Either you figured out the way it works, or your just insanely lucky in finding almost-right ways for stuff to work. We should go with your system.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 14, 2002)

Its based on some discussions about divine stats when the book first came out. Also a look at Upper Krusts system has a role in here (the divine bonus names if nothing else). I just had to tinker a bit to make it fit our point buy.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 14, 2002)

What point buy for cohorts?

Oh and is the Leadership score calculated from ECL or HD ? ie (Do I use 16 + Charisma Mod or 36 + Charisma Mod?)


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## Dalamar (Sep 14, 2002)

Now that would help me to make my cohort


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## Kalanyr (Sep 14, 2002)

*Luithi*
_Luithi the Wanderer_
*Demigod*
*Symbol*: A blurred hooden figure against a gold background
*Home Plane*: Arborea
*Alignment*: Chaotic Good
*Portfolio*: Freedom, Eladrin
*Worshippers*: Wanderers, Holy Liberators, Eladrin 
*Cleric Alignments*: Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral
*Domains*: Magic,Liberation,Trickery
*Favored Weapon*: Taleanthia (The Light of the Stars) (Lightblade) ( Rapier)

Luithi (Lew-ith-ee), god of freedom and Eladrin, appears as a tall ,7 feet, golden-haired green-eyed elven lord, draped in a robe of shimmering colours, or when he walks the mortal realms he appears as a brown cloaked itinerant elf, carrying only a bow, a quiver, a backpack and a quarterstaff.

Luithi is a Tulani Eladrin so ancient that he has ceased to merely represent the force of freedom, and has come to incarnate it.
Luithi wanders the Prime plane,under his veil, accompanied by his consort, Larentha, in order to better combat the machinations of devils and demons on the mortal world. 

When no threat is present they retreat to their Twilight Court in Arborea. A demiplane which serve both as Luithi's Divine Realm and as a home for Larentha's and his Twilight Court, as well as a home for their most loyal mortal servants.

Luitihi is somewhat cold, he has seen to many good people die to easily form close relationships with mortal creatures. But he is of kind spirit and seeks to aid those not of evil weal, and can be very generous to those who aid the cause of freedom.

*Dogma*
Do what is noble and good, do not give your word lightly and when given follow the spirit of the agreement over the letter, do not twist things to your advantage. Keep fit in mind and body and bring battle to tyrants, help those less able than yourself and never forget they beauty of the world.

*Clergy and Temples*
Lutithi has few organized temples and his clergy tend to be Eladrin. His mortal clergy are patient and prone to wander seeking to bring freedom where it is needed.


Luithi
*Divine Rank 1*
*Male Tulani  (Celestial,Eladrin,greater) Contemplative 1*
*Medium-Sized Outsider (Chaotic, Good)*
*Hit Dice*:   16d8+256 + 1d6 + 16 (414 hp)              [16d8+208 + 1d6 + 13 (355 hp)]
*Initiative*: +22 (+18 Dex +4 Improved Inititiative, Always First) [+19 (+15 Dex,+4 Improved Initiative, Always First) ]
*Speed*: 120 (60 ft.), Fly 200 ft. (perfect)
*AC*: 79 (+18 Dex, +14 Natural,+1 Divine, + 24 Deflection, +8 Armour, +4 Haste)   [73 (+15 Dex, +14 Natural,+1 Divine, + 21 Deflection, + 8 Armour, +4 Haste)]
*Attacks*:+10 keen lightblade  +44(+41)/+44(41)/+39((36)/+(34(31)/+28(25); or Eladrin Greatbow +40(37)/+35(32)/+30(27)/+25(22); or alternate form attacks from any other eladrin
*Damage*: +10 keen lightblade 2d4+27(24)+2d8 positive energy ;  Eladrin Greatbow 1d8+22 (19)  variable alternate damages
*Face/Reach*: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks*: Domain Powers,salient divine abilities, Spell-like abilities, spells, gaze, positive energy
*Special Qualities*:  Alternate forms,Celestial qualities,Divine Immunities, Damage reduction 36/+4,Fire Resistance 21, SR 33, understand,speak and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 1 mile, remote communication, godly realm, teleport without error at will, Divine Aura (10 feet, DC 35 (32)) , Divine Health, Prestige Domain (Mysticism),Haste
*Saves*: Fort +48 (+42), Ref  +52 (+46), Will +60 (+54)               
*Abilities*: Str 44 (38)  Dex 47 (41) Con 42 (36) Int 44 (38)  Wis 58 (52) Cha 58 (52)
*Skills*: Animal Empathy +44(41), Concentration +38(35), Diplomacy +45(42), Escape Artist +38 (35), Hide +38 (35),Iajitsu Focus +55(52), Intuit Direction +29(26) Knowledge (Religion,Arcana) +38(35),Knowledge (Planes) +38(35) Listen +44(41), Move Silently +38(35),Perform ( Dance, Drama, Epic, Fiddle, Flute, Lute, Speech, Storytelling,Tea Ceremony,Violin) +35(32),Scy +38(+35) Sense Motive +45(+42), Search +37(+34),Spellcraft +38(+35), Spot +44(+41), Tumble +38(+35), Wilderness Lore +44(41)
*Feats*: Improved Initiative,Leadership, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Teleport w/o Error), Track
*Epic Feats*:Epic Leadership,   Epic Skill Focus(Iajitsu Focus)
*Alignment*: Chaotic Good

Attack Bonus
Ranged Touch AB: +35 (+32) Touch: +34 (+31) 
Melee AB: +34/29/24/19 (+31) Ranged AB: 35/30/25/20  (+32)

*Divine Immunities*: Ability Damage,Ability Drain,Acid,Cold,Death Effects,Disease,Disintegration,Energy Drain,Mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation

*Salient Divine  Abilities *: Alter Reality (DC 45 (42)),Supreme Initiative

*Domain Powers*:  Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a 8th level wizard,Bluff, Disguise, and Hide are class skills, +2 morale bonus on all saves vs enchantment spells or effects.

*Spell-Like Abilities*: 
 At will: Change Self,Invisibility,Nondetection,Confusion,False Vision,Mislead,Screen,Polymorph any Object, Time Stop,Nystul's Undetectable Aura,Identify,Dispel Magic,Imbue with Spell Ability,Spell Resistance,Antimagic Field, Spell Turning, Protection from Spells, Mordekainen's Disjunction,Remove Fear,Remove Paralysis,Remove Curse,Freedom of Movement,Break Enchantment,Greater Dispelling,Refuge,Mind Blank,Unbinding all as an 11th level sorceror. (Save DC 35(32) + Spell Level)

Also 
At will—alter self, color spray, comprehend languages, chain lightning, cure light wounds, dancing lights, daylight, detect evil, detect thoughts, dispel magic, hold monster, mass charm, persistent image, polymorph any object, prismatic spray, telekinesis, teleport without error, wall of force; 1/day—meteor swarm, power word: kill, time stop; 1/year—grant another’s wish. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 15th-level sorcerer (save DC 34 + spell level).

*Cleric Spells/Day* (0-9) 6/11+1/10+1/10+1/10+1/9+1/8+1/7+1/6+1/5+1 as a 17th level cleric. (Save DC 34(31)+ Spell Level) (Can spontaneously cast and has no metamgic feats so no use having a spell list here)

Domain Spells (Air, Animal, Chaos, Good,Mysticism Plant, and Protection)
1 Sanctuary
2  Shield Other
3 Protection from Elements
4 Holy Smite
5 Dispel Evil
6 Repel Wood
7 Holy Word
8 Holy Aura
9 Elemetal Swarm (Air spell only)

*Other Divine Powers*
As a demigod Luithi treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.

*Senses*: Luithi can see, hear,touch and smell at a distance of 1 mile. As a standard action he can percieve anything within 1 mile of his worshippers,holy sites,objects, or any location where one of his titles or names was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to two locations at once. He can block the sensing power of dieties of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 1 hour.

*Portfolio Sense*: Luithi is aware of any effort for freedom that involves at least 1000 people or any danger to the wellfare of the  Eladrin race.

*Automatic Actions*: Luithi can use any Eladrin racial skill as a free action if the DC is 15 or lower. To use the skill as a free action Luithi must have ranks in the skill or the skill must be useable untrained. Luithi cannot do anything as a free action if the task would be a move action or part of a move action. Luithi can likewise perform any task that can be accomplished with a simple Charisma or Dexterity check as a free action. He can perform up to 2 such free actions a round.

*Create Magic Items*: Luithi can create any simple or martial weapon or any item that protects the wearer from mind altering effects (eg Ring of Mindshielding), increases movement (eg Boots of Speed) or eases travel (eg Bag of Holding) as long as the item's market value does not exceed 4,500 gp.

*Enhanced Statistics*-Luithi has used alter reality to give himself a +5 Inherent Bonus to all statistics.

*Haste (Su)* Luithi is permanently under the effects of a haste spell as cast by a 17th level sorceror. If Dispelled Luithi needs to use Alter Reality to produce a Haste effect and render it permanent again, requiring 170 minutes rest.

*Tulani Abilities*

The tulani have no need for weapons and armor; their unearthly forms naturally resist damage, and at will (as a free action) they can create a swordlike blade of fiery light in their fist.

*Fly (Su)*: A tulani in humanoid form can fly unaided as a free action.

*Gaze (Su)*: In humanoid form—slay evil creatures of fewer than 8 HD, range 80 ft., Will negates DC 39, but even if successful the creature is blinded and stricken with fear for 2d10 rounds. If the opponent is of any nonevil alignment or is evil and of 8 HD or more, then it suffers blindness and fear only if it fails to save.

*Positive Energy (Ex)*: The tulani’s blade of light deals an additional 2d8 points of positive energy damage to evil creatures.

*Celestial Qualities*: Protective aura (double strength magic circle against evil and magic circle against law in a 20’ radius and only one or the other functions against any particular enemy, minor globe of invulnerability, protection from arrows, any evil creature must make a Will save DC 42(39) to be able to approach within 20 ft. of a tulani), electricity and petrification immunity,  tongues (always active), +4 save against poison.

*Alternate Forms (Su)*: A tulani can assume the secondary form of any other eladrin as a free action, or assume its humanoid form from any alternate form as a standard action. The tulani keeps its AC and base attack bonus (+16) but causes double the damage of a bralani, noviere, or firre eladrin’s alternate form. In the ghaele’s form, its light-beams strike for 3d12 points of damage each and never miss. A tulani can use its spell-like abilities and spells in any form it chooses to assume, and of course its celestial qualities are always functional.
A tulani remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a tulani always reverts back to its primary, humanoid form if killed. A true seeing spell reveals the tulani’s humanoid form.

*Spells*: Tulani can cast divine spells from the cleric list and the Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, Plant, and Protection domains as 16th-level clerics. (In Divine Abilities)


*Alternate Forms*:

Bralani form
Speed:  fly 200 ft. (perfect)
Attacks: 2 sand- or snow-blasts +35(32) ranged touch
Damage:  sand/snow blasts 2d10 

Blast Attack (Ex): A tulani in whirlwind form can attack with two scourging sand- or snow-blasts for 2d10 points of damage each, inflicted upon any caught within the area of effect.  The blasts are 20-foot long cones.
Alternate Form (Su): Any creature within 20 feet of the tulani in whirlwind form suffers -2 to attacks due to stinging sand in its eyes, Will negates DC 18.  Any medium-size or smaller creature within 5 feet of a bralani in its whirlwind form is swept off its feet by the raging winds and thrown 10 to 30 feet, Ref negates DC 31.

Coure 
Speed:  Fly 200 ft. (perfect)

Firre (greater)
Speed: fly 200 ft. (perfect)
Attacks:  burning rays +35(32)/+35(32) ranged touch
Damage:  burning rays 6d6/6d6
Fire Ray (Ex): A firre in pillar form can lash out with flame rays to a range of 200 feet.

Ghaele (greater)
Speed: fly 200ft. (perfect)
Attacks:  2 light rays ranged touch (auto hit)
Damage:  light ray 3d12
Light Ray (Ex): A ghaele in globe form can project light rays with a range of 300 feet.

Noviere (Lesser)
Speed:  Swim 60 ft.
Attacks:   Dolphin strike +34(31) (at least, see below)
Damage:  ram 4d8+17(14) plus possible envelopment
	Alternate Form (Su): A noviere can shift between its humanoid form and its dolphin form as a standard action.  In humanoid form, novieres can cast spells, attack with weapons, and use spell-like abilities.  In dolphin form they cannot do any of these things, but they have their ram attack.  And of course if the noviere's opponent is not accustomed to underwater combat, the ram attack will likely gain substantial bonuses to hit.
A noviere remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one.  A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does the noviere revert to any particular form when killed.  A true seeing spell, however, reveals both forms simultaneously. 
Envelopment (Ex): On a natural attack roll of 19 or 20 with her ram attack, a noviere can envelope their foes in the watery mass of their own bodies.  To break free an enemy must make a strength check DC 20 or find a way to drive the noviere away with magic.  Neither the held opponent nor the noviere can make any attacks while the opponent is held.  If the noviere was engaged in mortal combat with her enemy and envelopes it, she will often simply hold the opponent underwater until it drowns.

Shiere
Speed:  Fly 200 ft. (perfect)

*Possesions*: 

Eladrin Greatbow (As Elven Greatbow except only major function works for eladrin only) 2,900,400
Add  Keen and Increase Lightblade to +10 (4,372,000)
Quiver of Ehlonna  (1,800 gp)
Luithi's Travelling Pack (61,000 gp)
Robes of the Tulani (+6 Str,Dex,Con,Int,Wis,Cha,As Boots of Springing and Striding,Evasion Ability, Cloak of Major Displacement) (644,000) 
Bracers of Armour (+8) 64,000
60 Arrows
Holy Symbol of Luithi 
Material Components Pouch

1,856,777 GP still to spend



*Luithi's Travelling Pack*

A backpack of this sort appears to be well made, well used, and quite ordinary. It is constructed of finely tanned leather, and the straps have brass hardware and buckles. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a bag of holding and can actually hold material equal to as much as 150 cu. ft cubic feet in volume or 1,000 lb pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 250 cu. ft cubic feet or 1,500 lb. pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds.

While such storage is useful enough, the pack has an even greater power in addition. When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what a haversack contains. Retrieving any specific item from a travelling pack is a free action. Luithi's Travelling Pack and whatever it contains gain a +5 resistance bonus to all saving throws.

Caster Level: 9th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Leo_mund’s secret chest; Market Price: 61,000 gp; Weight: 5 lb.





Epic Leadership (Leadership Score (43/43/44)
Cohort (26th level)


*Larentha
Tulani (greater)
Divine Rank 0 
Medium-Sized Outsider (Chaotic, Good)*
*Hit Dice*: 16d8 + 128 (256 hp)
*Initiative*: +9 (+9 Dex)
*Speed*: 60 ft., Fly 200 ft. (perfect)
*AC*: 45  (+9 Dex, +13 Natural, +14 Deflection)
*Attacks*: +4 lightblade +32/+32/+27/+22/+17; or alternate form attacks from any other eladrin
*Damage*: +4 lightblade 2d4+16+2d8 positive energy; variable alternate damages
*Face/Reach*: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks*: Spell-like abilities, spells, gaze, positive energy
*Special Qualities*: Damage reduction 35/+4, SR 32, celestial qualities,divine immunities,understand speak and read all languages alternate forms, Enhanced Abilities 
*Saves*: Fort +18, Ref +19, Will +24
*Abilities*: Str 35, Dex 29, Con 27, Int 29, Wis 38, Chr 38
*Skills*: Animal Empathy +33, Concentration +27, Diplomacy +33, Escape Artist +28, Hide +28, Knowledge (Religion,Nature) +28, Listen +33, Move Silently +28, Sense Motive +33, Search +28, Spot +33, Tumble +28, Wilderness Lore +33
*Feats*: Leadership, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Teleport w/o Error), Maximise Spell-Like Abilty (Chain Lightning),Track
*Epic Feats*:Epic Leadership, 

*Divine Immunities*
Immune to Transmutation,Energy Drain,Ability Drain and Ability Damage,Mind-Affecting Effects

*Cleric Spells/Day* (0-8) 6/9+1/9+1/8+1/7+1/7+1/6+1/5+1/4+1 (As a 16th level cleric) Save DC 24+ Spell Level


*Cleric Spells Prepared*
0- Detect Magic, Create Water, Purify Food and Drink, Resistance,Virtue,Mending
1- Deathwatch, Detect Law, Detect Undead, Obscuring Mist, Protection from Evil, Protection from Law,Shield of Faith, Invisibilty to Undead,Bless
2- Gentle Repose,Silence,Shield Other,Consecrate,Find Traps, Resist Elements (Sonic),Spiritual Weapon,Zone of Truth
3- Create Food and Water, Invisibilty Purge,Locate Object, Magic Circle Against Law,Magic Circle Against Evil,Searing Light,Speak with Plants,Prayer
4- Control Water, Death Ward (x2), Discern Lies, Status, Spell Immunity, Neutralize Poison
5- Atonement, Healing Circle, Flame Strike,Insect Plague,Plane Shift,True Seeing, Wall of Stone
6- Find the Path,Heal (x2),Greater Dispelling,Wind Walk,Word of Recall
7- Greater Restoration,Holy Word,Word of Chaos,Control Weather,Regenerate
8- Discern Location,Mass Heal,Fire Storm,Greater Planar Ally

*Domain Spells * (Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, Plant, and Protection)
1 Entangle
2 Aid
3 Plant Growth
4 Control Plants
5 Commune with Nature
6 Anti-Life Shell
7 Change Staff
8 Creeping Doom

*Other Divine Powers*
As a quasidiety, Larentha is immortal. 

*Tulani Qualities*
The tulani have no need for weapons and armor; their unearthly forms naturally resist damage, and at will (as a free action) they can create a swordlike blade of fiery light in their fist.  When provoked to combat by dire circumstances, tulani are devastating opponents, utilizing all the powers at their disposal to ruthlessly ensure the swiftest possible victory.

*Spell-Like Abilities*: At will-alter self, color spray, comprehend languages, chain lightning, cure light wounds, dancing lights, daylight, detect evil, detect thoughts, dispel magic, hold monster, mass charm, persistent image, polymorph any object, prismatic spray, telekinesis, teleport without error, wall of force; 1/day-meteor swarm, power word: kill, time stop; 1/year-grant another’s wish.  These abilities are as the spells cast by a 15th-level sorcerer (save DC 24 + spell level).

*Fly (Su)*: A tulani in humanoid form can fly unaided as a free action.

*Gaze (Su)*: In humanoid form-slay evil creatures of fewer than 8 HD, range 80 ft., Will negates DC 32, but even if successful the creature is blinded and stricken with fear for 2d10 rounds.  If the opponent is of any nonevil alignment or is evil and of 8 HD or more, then it suffers blindness and fear only if it fails to save.

*Positive Energy (Ex)*: The tulani’s blade of light deals an additional 2d8 points of positive energy damage to evil creatures.

*Celestial Qualities*: Protective aura (double strength magic circle against evil and magic circle against law in a 20’ radius and only one or the other functions against any particular enemy, minor globe of invulnerability, protection from arrows, any evil creature must make a Will save DC 32 to be able to approach within 20 ft. of a tulani), electricity and petrification immunity, fire, cold, and acid resistance 20, tongues (always active), +4 save against poison.

*Alternate Forms (Su)*: A tulani can assume the secondary form of any other eladrin as a free action, or assume its humanoid form from any alternate form as a standard action.  The tulani keeps its AC and base attack bonus (+16) but causes double the damage of a bralani, noviere, or firre eladrin’s alternate form.  In the ghaele’s form, its light-beams strike for 3d12 points of damage each and never miss.  A tulani can use its spell-like abilities and spells in any form it chooses to assume, and of course its celestial qualities are always functional.
A tulani remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one.  A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a tulani always reverts back to its primary, humanoid form if killed.  A true seeing spell reveals the tulani’s humanoid form.

*Enhanced Abilties*: Larentha has benefitted from Luithi's Alter Reality and as such has a +5 Inherent Bonus to all statistics.

Alternate Forms:

Bralani form
Speed:  fly 200 ft. (perfect)
Attacks: 2 sand- or snow-blasts +25 ranged touch
Damage:  sand/snow blasts 2d10 

	Blast Attack (Ex): A tulani in whirlwind form can attack with two scourging sand- or snow-blasts for 2d10 points of damage each, inflicted upon any caught within the area of effect.  The blasts are 20-foot long cones.
Alternate Form (Su): Any creature within 20 feet of the tulani in whirlwind form suffers -2 to attacks due to stinging sand in its eyes, Will negates DC 18.  Any medium-size or smaller creature within 5 feet of a bralani in its whirlwind form is swept off its feet by the raging winds and thrown 10 to 30 feet, Ref negates DC 26.



Coure 
Speed:  Fly 200 ft. (perfect)



Firre (greater)
Speed: fly 200 ft. (perfect)
Attacks:  burning rays +25/+25 ranged touch
Damage:  burning rays 6d6/6d6
Fire Ray (Ex): A firre in pillar form can lash out with flame rays to a range of 200 feet.



Ghaele (greater)
Speed: fly 200ft. (perfect)
Attacks:  2 light rays ranged touch (auto hit)
Damage:  light ray 3d12
Light Ray (Ex): A ghaele in globe form can project light rays with a range of 300 feet.


Noviere (Lesser)
Speed:  Swim 60 ft.
Attacks:   Dolphin strike +28 (at least, see below)
Damage:  ram 4d8+14 plus possible envelopment
	Alternate Form (Su): A noviere can shift between its humanoid form and its dolphin form as a standard action.  In humanoid form, novieres can cast spells, attack with weapons, and use spell-like abilities.  In dolphin form they cannot do any of these things, but they have their ram attack.  And of course if the noviere's opponent is not accustomed to underwater combat, the ram attack will likely gain substantial bonuses to hit.
A noviere remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one.  A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does the noviere revert to any particular form when killed.  A true seeing spell, however, reveals both forms simultaneously. 
Envelopment (Ex): On a natural attack roll of 19 or 20 with her ram attack, a noviere can envelope their foes in the watery mass of their own bodies.  To break free an enemy must make a strength check DC 20 or find a way to drive the noviere away with magic.  Neither the held opponent nor the noviere can make any attacks while the opponent is held.  If the noviere was engaged in mortal combat with her enemy and envelopes it, she will often simply hold the opponent underwater until it drowns.

Shiere
Speed:  Fly 200 ft. (perfect)



*Epic Leadership*
Leadership Score (34/34/35)

Cohort (22nd level)
*Alexand,Knight Regent of the Court
Ghaele Eladrin Holy Liberator 8
Male Ghaele Eladrin
Medium-Size Outsider (Chaotic, Good)*
*Hit Dice*: 14d8+70+8d10+40 (205 hp) 
*Initiative*: +8 (+4 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
*Speed*: 50 ft., fly 150ft. (perfect)
*AC*: 28 (+4 Dex, +14 natural)
*Attacks*: +4 greatsword +37/32/27/22 melee; or 2 light rays +26 ranged touch
*Damage*: +4 greatsword 2d6+19 and positive energy; light ray 2d12
*Face/Reach*: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks*: Spell-like abilities, spells, gaze, positive energy, subversion
*Special Qualities*: Damage reduction 25/+3, SR 28, celestial qualities, alternate form, Resist Enchantment,Divine Grace,Smite Evil 1/day (+8 to attack and +8 to damage),Turn Undead (15/day as a 6th level cleric),Enhanced Statistics, Immunity to Compulsion and Charm.
*Saves*: Fort +27, Ref +23, Will +31
*Abilities*: Str 32 Dex 21 Con 20 Int 24 Wis 24 Cha 26
*Skills*: 
Animal Empathy +25, Concentration +30,Diplomacy +33, Escape Artist +22,Handle Animal +12, Hide +22, Knowledge (Nobility)  +32,Knowledge (Religion) +32, Listen +26, Move Silently +21, Sense Motive +32, Spot +26
*Feats*:  Blind-Fight,Divine Might,Divine Vengeance,Power Attack,Extra Turning, Improved Initiative,Iron Will
*Alignment*: Chaotic good

Alexand is the Knight Regent of the Court of Luithi and Larentha and as such is usually found therein, despite (or perhaps because of) his lord and ladies wanderings, Alexand is a competent steward and is usually more than adequate protection from any interloper.

*Combat*

Ghaeles who enter combat prefer direct confrontation and damaging attacks to more subtle or insidious methods.  They usually fight in their humanoid forms, wielding incandescent +4 greatswords.  If a ghaele desires mobility, it assumes its globe form and blasts the enemy with light rays.

*Spell-Like Abilities*: At will-aid, alter self, charm monster, color spray, comprehend languages, continual flame, cure light wounds, dancing lights, detect evil, detect thoughts, dispel magic, hold monster, improved invisibility (self only), major image, see invisibility, and teleport without error (self plus 50 pounds of objects only); 1/day-chain lightning, prismatic spray, and wall of force.  These abilities are as the spells cast by a 12th-level sorcerer (save DC 18 + spell level).


*Gaze (Su)*: In humanoid form-slay evil creatures of 5 or fewer HD, range 60 feet, Will negates DC 25.  Even if the save succeeds, the creature is affected as though by a fear spell for 2d10 rounds.  Nonevil creatures, and evil creatures with more than 5 HD, must succeed at a Will save (DC 25) or suffer the fear effect.

*Positive Energy (Ex)*: The ghaele’s incandescent sword deals an additional 2d6 points of positive energy damage to evil creatures.

*Celestial Qualities*: Protective aura (double strength magic circle against evil and magic circle against law in a 20’ radius and only one or the other functions against any particular enemy, minor globe of invulnerability, protection from arrows), electricity and petrification immunity, fire, cold, and acid resistance 20, tongues (always active), +4 save against poison.

*Alternate Form (Su)*: A ghaele can shift between its humanoid and globe forms as a standard action.  In humanoid form, it cannot fly or use its light rays, but it can use its gaze attack and spell-like abilities, make physical attacks, and cast spells.  In globe form, it can fly, use its light rays, and use spell-like abilities, but it cannot cast spells or use its gaze attack.
A ghaele remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one.  A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does the ghaele revert to any particular form when killed.  A true seeing spell, however, reveals both forms simultaneously.

*Light Ray (Ex)*: A ghaele in globe form can project light rays with a range of 300 feet.

*Vulnerability to Cold-Wrought Iron (Ex)*: Weapons made of specially crafted cold iron deal damage to ghaeles at normal efficiency, even if their enchantment bonus is lower than +3.

*Enhanced Statistics*: Alexand has benefitted from Luithi's Alter Reality and as such has a +5 Inherent Bonus to all statistics.        


*Spells*: Ghaeles in humanoid form can cast divine spells from the cleric list and the Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, and Plant domains as 14th-level clerics (save DC 17 + spell level).

Spells 0-7 6/7+1/7+1/6+1/5+1/4+1/4+1/3+1  as a 14th level cleric 

0- Detect Magic, Guidance, Mending, Resistance, Virtue, Read Magic
1- Bless, Detect Law, Entropic Shield, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Remove Fear, Magic Stone
2- Augury, Gentle Repose,Shield Other,Shatter,Silence,Sound Burst,Spiritual Weapon
3- Magic Circle against Evil, Protection from Elements (Sonic), Speak with Dead, Speak with Plants,Stone Shape,Remove Curse
4- Status, Spell Immunity, Neutralize Poison, Greater Magic Weapon, Discern Lies
5- Commune, Ethereal Jaunt, Flame Strike, Plane Shift
6- Banishment, Greater Dispelling, Heal, Harm
7- Ressurection,Destruction, Holy Word

Domain Spells
1 Protection from Law
2 Aid
3 Magic Circle Against Evil
4 Holy Smite
5 Dispel Evil
6 Blade Barrier
7 Control Weather


Spells 1-4  4/3/3/2 as an 8th level Holy Liberator (DC 17 +Spell Level)
1 Bless Weapon, Divine Favour, Detect Poison, Magic Weapon
2 Shield Other, Bull's Strength,Calm Emotions
3 Greater Magic Weapon, Prayer, Remove Curse
4 Holy Sword*2

*Celestial Companion*
Celestial Eagle   (Goldfeather)
Magical Beast
HD 9d8+9  (49 hp) 
Initiative: +2 Dex 
Speed: 10ft, fly 80 ft average
AC:  21 (+1 Size, +2 Dex, +8 Natural)
Attacks: 2 claws +9 bite +4 melee
Claw: 1d3+2 Bite 1d4+1
Face/Reach: 5 ft x 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Smite Evil 1/day (+9 Damage to an evil foe)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60',Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Share Saving Throws, Speak with Holy Liberator, Blood bond, SR 18, Acid,Cold,Electricity Resistance 15, DR 5/+2
Str: 14 Dex 15 Con 12 Int 9 Wis 14 Cha 6
Skills: Listen: +6, Spot +6*
Feats: Weapon Finesse (claw,bite)
Saves: Fort +16  Ref +13 Will +17
Alignment: Chaotic Good

*Luithi's Followers* (Unless otherwise noted Split as 50% Elves, 25% Half-Elves, 12% Gnomes, 12% Halflings, 1% Human)

1st 1400 (933 Experts (466 Farmers, 467 Other) 467 Warriors) 2nd 140 (93.3 Experts (46 Farmers. 47 Other) 47 Warriors)
3rd 70  (35 Adepts and 35 Aristocrats)
4th 35  ( 4x Barbarian , 5x Bard , 5x Cleric# , 4xDruid ,4xFighter,4xRanger,4xSorceror,5xWizard) 
5th 18 (Coure Eladrin)
6th  9 (" with 1 PC Class level) (1x Bard, 2x Rogues, 1x Wizard, 1x Sorceror, 2x Cleric#, 1x Ranger, 1x Fighter)
7th  5 (" with 2 PC Class Levels) ( 2x Cleric#, 2x Rangers, 1x Fighter) 
8th  3 (with 3 PC Class levels) (1x Wizard, 1x Bard , 1x Rogue)
9th  2  (Novier Eladrin)
10th 1 (Bralani Eladrin)

*Talentha's Followers* (Unless otherwise noted Split as 50% Elves, 25% Half-Elves, 12% Gnomes, 12% Halflings, 1% Human)
1st 590 (392 Experts (196 Farmers, 197 Other) 197 Warriors)
2nd 59 (39 Experts (19 Farmers, 20 Other), 20 Warriors)
3rd 30 (15 Adepts and 15 Aristocrats)
4th 15 ( 1x Barbarian , 2x Bard , 2x Cleric# , 2xDruid ,2xFighter,2xRanger,2xSorceror,2xWizard)
5th 8 (Coure Eladrin)
6th 4 (" with 1 PC Class level) (2x Cleric*, 2x Rangers)
7th 2 (" with 2 PC Class levels) (1x Cleric*, 1x Ranger)
8th 1 (" with 3 PC Class levels) (1x Cleric*)

*(Plant and Animal Domains)
# (Liberation and Magic Domains)



*The Court of the Setting Sun*
 (Ethereal Demiplane Coterminous with Arborea)
. Normaly Gravity
. Normal Time
. Finite Size (180 Mile Radius)
. Divinely Morphic
. No Elemental or Energy Traits
. Mildly Good-Aligned and Mildly Chaos-Aligned 
  Evil or lawful characters suffer a -2 penalty on all Charisma-based checks. Lawful Evil characters suffer a -4 penlty.
. Normal Magic


The Court of Wandering stars is accessible from 1 location on Arborea, set by Luithi or Larentha, the location of the connection may be changed at will. 

The Court of the Setting Sun is a vast sprawling forest with a small village and castle in the centre. The castle was created through the use of the Alter Reality ability to create the materials and many months of work by Luithi and his followers to assemble and is constructed entirely of an unknown radiant white stone. (The central 100 foot radius of the castle serves as Luithi's Godly Realm) (Hardness and Hit Points as normal stone)

The demiplane serves as a a home to Luithi and Larentha and there most loyal followers (those from the Leadership feat). The Demiplane also serves as a retreat in times of need. However usually Luithi and Larentha are absent from the demiplane leaving Alexand in charge, unless the mighty Ghaele is elsewhere on the prime material plane serving the forces of good in his own way. 



(Things to do Possessions)


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> *What point buy for cohorts?
> 
> Oh and is the Leadership score calculated from ECL or HD ? ie (Do I use 16 + Charisma Mod or 36 + Charisma Mod?) *




30 point buy for cohorts.

HD + Charisma mod.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 14, 2002)

Cream... reality change or alter reality from deities... you just *MIGHT* want to look in that.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 14, 2002)

Hey why don't we just all become rank 1 deities and get together in a large hall with mugs of endless beer and drink and have fun and bad conversations until the end of eternity and let our followers and cohorts do all the bad s hit?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *Cream... reality change or alter reality from deities... you just *MIGHT* want to look in that. *




Duplicate any spell of 9th level or lower doesn't seem to go to far, but there should be a rest period if you use spells outside of your normal spellcasting capability. For instance, if your a Wiz 16 you can cast wizard spells up to 8th level using this ability (taking a standard action at least). If you try to cast other spells (except domain spells) you must rest for 1 round per spell level I guess...

Duplicating spells with metamagic feats could be taken too far (using a spell that multiplies the damage by 50 as a standard action and then resting for an hour would seem a bit much). I'll limit this element on individual cases.

Redering an effect permanent seems fine.

Temporary nonmagical objects is fine.

Temporary magic items or creatures that last for 1-5 hours seems fine, including the rest period.

Reshaping landscape and stuff seems fine.

Using it for other purposes though is subject to discretion...

What do you think?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *Hey why don't we just all become rank 1 deities and get together in a large hall with mugs of endless beer and drink and have fun and bad conversations until the end of eternity and let our followers and cohorts do all the bad s hit? *




Actually don't a lot of pantheon's do that already? 

As you can see, I'm not going to play a god, so it's not everybody.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

The 440,000 gp limit is gone, I dropped it about a page back.

Also, I'm going to be very particular about what story elements you bring to the game. If you don't add something to the story, your going to have to write something up.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

> Enhanced Statistics-Luithi has used alter reality to give himself a +5 Inherent Bonus to all statistics.




Kal, you know better than me, but is that under Alter Reality? I know it's under wish, but it's not specifically under alter reality.


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## Janos Audron (Sep 14, 2002)

Creamsteak, if I want a weapon, which is essentially a Black Blade of Disaster, but then instantaneous and further enhanceable, how much is that gonna cost me (remember, I have the Alter Reality ability)?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 14, 2002)

Janos Audron said:
			
		

> *Creamsteak, if I want a weapon, which is essentially a Black Blade of Disaster, but then instantaneous and further enhanceable, how much is that gonna cost me (remember, I have the Alter Reality ability)? *




Alter reality doesn't say anything about permanent magical items I think. And I don't know where to look for a "Black Blade of Disaster"

So you need to kind of say that...


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## Janos Audron (Sep 14, 2002)

1st: Alter Reality can duplicate any 9th level or lower spell.
2nd: Black Blade of Disaster is in Magic of Fearun, 9th level conjuration.
3rd: Because Alter Reality can duplicate any 9th level or lower spell, you can use it to give yourself a +5 inherent bonus to all your ability scores.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 15, 2002)

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=367957#post367957

That is the location of my character and my cohort, comparing my cohort to my character, my cohort kicks my but despite being 11 ECL lower (and still not benefitting from the +5 Inherent Bonus to  all stats from Alter Reality) . I think the ECL of Paragon needs to be reconsidered a bit. (Edit- Dagnabbit, the thing is that Paragon ECL is 15 since its +15 to all 6 stats. Using one of CS's earlier statements I thought it was +10. Time to redo my cohort. I still think +15 is a little low, since a 15 ECL cohort with it could paste an ECL 36 Demigod.)

Edit:  

I want my Leadership/Epic Leadership feat to represent the Twilight Court of a Tulani, by default it looks like:

Followers:
1st level followers: 1200 
2nd level followers  120 
3rd level followers: 60 
4th level followers: 30 
5th level followers: 15 
6th level followers: 8  
7th level followers: 4  
8th level followers: 2 
9th level followers: 1      


However I worked out Eladrin EFL (Effective Follower Level) as 

level charged for Eladrin followers:
Bralani 10
Coure  5
Noviere 9
Shiere 12
Firre  16*
Ghaele 18* 
Tulani 22* 

* (Greater Eladrin) Counted as though had  PrC
Others are as though possessing PC Classes

Meaning that most of my followers would be humans, etc. Would it be possible to rearrange it as: 

Followers: 
1st -4th level: 0
5th level followers: 35 (Coure Eladrin)
6th level followers:  12 (" with 1 level in a PC class)
7th level followers:   6  (" with 2 levels in a PC class)
8th level followers:   3  (" with 3 levels in a PC class)
9th level followers:   2   ( Noviere Eladrin)

(It has the same total level value)

Edit 2- Oh and 666 000 XP is enough for 37th level not 36th, the XP for 36th level is 630 000 XP. So which is it 37th level or 36th?


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## Howling Coyote (Sep 15, 2002)

Here's my character. Elkas is a deadly assassin, who charges an extreme price for his services, but he has never failed a hit. Most of his targets are kings and other powerful individuals. 
Elkas has made a pack with the god of thieves; in exchange for power and immortality he is the gods eternal servant. Maybe Elkas even rises eventually to true divinity as god of assassins, if he serves his master well enough.

Elkas
Male Human Rogue 6/Fighter 4/Assassin 17
Divine Rank: 0
Hit Dice: 23d6+4d10+208 (394 hp)
Iniative: +22 (+14 Dex, +8 Superior Iniative)
Speed: 60 ft.
AC: 51 (+13 Bracers of Armor, +14 Dex, +5 Amulet of Natural Armor, +9 Deflection)
Attacks: +10 wounding shocking burst frost dagger +44/+39/+34 melee; or +2/+5 mighty frost composite shortbow +39/+34/+29 ranged.
Damage: +10 wounding shocking burst frost dagger 1d4+20+1d6 cold; or +2/+5 mighty frost composite shortbow 1d6+7+1d6 cold.
Face/Reach: 5ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Abilities: Sneak Attack +13d6, evasion, uncanny dodge, death attack (DC 32), poison use, +8 save vs. poison, immunities, DR 35/+4, fire resistance 20, SR 32, immortality.
Saves: Fort +25, Ref +35, Wis +21.
Abilities: Str 27 (21), Dex 39 (33), Con 27 (21), Int 29 (23), Wis 25 (19), Cha 28 (22) (Elkas has read all the +5 tomes).
Skills: Balance +30 (12), Bluff +39 (30), Climb +28 (20), Diplomacy +21 (4), Disable Device +27 (16), Disguise +23 (14), Escape Artist +24 (10), Gather Information +23 (14), Hide +54 (30), Intimidate +23 (14), Jump +42 (30), Listen +23 (16), Move Silently +64 (30), Open Lock +27 (11), Read Lips +16 (7), Ride +17 (3), Search +23 (14), Sense Motive +37 (30), Spot +33 (16), Tumble +48 (30), Use Rope +21 (7).
Feats: Arterial Strike, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Epic Skill Focus (move silently), Flick of the Wrist, Improve Critical (dagger), Improved Iniative, Improved Sneak Attack, Mobility, Quick Draw, Spring Attack, Superior Iniative, Weapon Finesse (dagger), Weapon Focus (dagger), Weapon Specialization (dagger).
Alignment: Lawful Evil

Immunities: Transmutation, energy drain, ability damage, mind-affecting effects.
Spellbook: 5/4/4/3; base DC = 19 + spell level; 1st-Change Self, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Low-Light Vision, Obscuring Mist, Silent Portal, Spider Climb, Spring Sheath; 2nd-Alter Self, Darkness, Getaway, Pass Without Trace, Undetectable Alignment; 3rd-Absorb Weapon, Deeper Darkness, Invisibility, Misdirection, Nondetection, Spider Poison; 4th-Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Improved Invisibility, Poison, Sniper’s Eye.
Possession: +10 wounding shocking burst frost dagger, +2/+5 mighty frost composite shortbow, amulet of natural armor +5, bag of holding type 4, Elkas boots (move silently +10, freedom of movement, fly 2 h/day, haste 10 rounds/day, teleportation 3/day), bracers of armor +13, Elkas cloak (cloak of resistance +5 & cloak of elvenkind), cube of force, Elkas mask (darkvision 60’, spot +10, +6 to str, dex, con, int, wis, cha), quiver of Ehlonna, Elkas ring (ring of blinking & invisibility), ring of regeneration, 2 rope of climbing, rod of enemy detection, 60 masterwork arrows, masterwork thieves tools, 1907753 gp.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 15, 2002)

(x*(0.5x+0.5))*1000

36*(18+0.5)*1000

666*1000

666000

Ah... I was forgetting that level 1 comes for free... wow, sorry huge huge error. BTW, I'm going to take at least a month before this game actually starts, I'm busy. Meanwhile, I'll be running the IR and preparing this game, but just don't ask when we start for at least a month.

Level 37, cause that exp startup is just funny.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 15, 2002)

Janos Audron said:
			
		

> *1st: Alter Reality can duplicate any 9th level or lower spell.
> 2nd: Black Blade of Disaster is in Magic of Fearun, 9th level conjuration.
> 3rd: Because Alter Reality can duplicate any 9th level or lower spell, you can use it to give yourself a +5 inherent bonus to all your ability scores. *




Fine, then here's my ruling:

Alter Reality +5 ECL if you want to be able to use it to duplicate Wish. That's my logic there... Free wishes forever... that's fine if your Rank 6 or higher, but for a demigod to be able to just grant anyone he greats a +30 to ability scores -seems unfair as a PC attribute.


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## Howling Coyote (Sep 15, 2002)

Added the missing level for Elkas.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 15, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Fine, then here's my ruling:
> 
> Alter Reality +5 ECL if you want to be able to use it to duplicate Wish. That's my logic there... Free wishes forever... that's fine if your Rank 6 or higher, but for a demigod to be able to just grant anyone he greats a +30 to ability scores -seems unfair as a PC attribute. *




I'm going to revoke this opinion at least for now.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 15, 2002)

Cream the Epic level ECL's are all OK and all the races as they are in the book and the givem ECL are ok?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 16, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *Cream the Epic level ECL's are all OK and all the races as they are in the book and the givem ECL are ok? *




Do you mean:



> Creamsteak, I feel that the Epic Level Handbook's given ECL's are all OK. All the races as they are in the book, with thier given ECL should be used?




I'm still using ECL=HD unless thiers some reason you guy's disagree with it. Posting that you disagree with it and have a solution is something that I don't see enough of.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

The monsters in the book as they stand there with there HD and skills and feats and the works have the ECL listed, that means always more HD then CR/ECL most of the time.

So the question is are you gonna let them be played like they stand there with the given ECL? For example a ECL 37 creature euhh dream larvae IIRC has ECL 37 as it stands there so are you for example allowed to play that even if it has more HD then ECL.

(BTw I'm tempted to play a divine agent of one of our low DR PC gods )


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## Creamsteak (Sep 16, 2002)

For right now, I'm going with ECL=HD unless people really disagree with that. It seems fair to me, but then again I probably play a different style than most of you. I play a VERY lighthearted style where I trust the players to make thier own fair judgements, while they allow me the same prividge.


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## Zack2216 (Sep 16, 2002)

creamsteak:


> Reply: If it's against the rules, I don't see why you should break them. If you feal it should be part of the campaign world as some divine feat, epic feat, normal feat, prestige class, or such, just tell me.




the thing is, it is allowed by the rules. I was wondering if you wanted to change that, like use a feat, as you suggested.

Here's something
Enhance wildshape:
Prereqs: somewhere around lvl 26 or so
benefit:
You can now take templated forms when using wildshape. however, you are still limited to type in terms of what you can wildshape into. Also, you must be familiar with the form you want to take(through either battle or rigorous study).

And I would like to restate my other question, what creatures will I be familiar with when I use shapechange or wildshape.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 16, 2002)

Zack2216 said:
			
		

> *creamsteak:
> 
> 
> the thing is, it is allowed by the rules. I was wondering if you wanted to change that, like use a feat, as you suggested.
> ...




I'm not on the same page as you... probably because I never pay any attention to wild-shape. Just use your best judgement about it, since you probably know better than me, then tell me how you decided to do it.

As for creatures, I apply the same logic. The world we are using could have anything you want to add, so just go ahead and come up with your own answer if thier's anything out of the ordinary.

I think I know... about nothing about druids... so maybe you can explain in more detail what you are asking me?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

Personally I think that they should keep the hd that goes over their ECL because they still are *just monsters* and they don't gain real class abilities yet and that costs alot so some extra HD is put up to make up for it. (I guess)


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## Crowe9107 (Sep 16, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *(BTw I'm tempted to play a divine agent of one of our low DR PC gods ) *




I have been lurking on this post for a while, and I came up with an interesting idea for a low DR vassal of Boccob (an NE demigod of plots and conspiracies, the character that is, not Boccob). I find the concept of playing a fledging godling rather interesting, but constructing a "god" is some very muddlesome work, and the ECL penalties for DR will pretty much ensure that such a character is of little utility compared to the rest of the players. By this I mean, you could play a DR1 Demigod with 17 character levels, or you could play a Demilich, or a Paragon Mindflayer, or even a regular epic character of 37 levels. Maybe I am silly, but I don't see how you can create a demigod that can rise to CR37 challenges. On the other hand, some of the DR powers are quite powerful, and can get quite out of control quite easily if not properly controlled. I think their is quite a ramp on DR, DR0 grants little power, while DR5 grants quite a bit. But is DR1 really worth +20ECL? You gain no hit dice, ability adjustments or the like, +20ECL is a Great Wyrm, the salient divine abilities are very powerful, but it seems a bit much. Unfortunately, I have no good formula for what appropriate modifiers would be, as I am sure the DR can be manipulated to create some truly sick combinations, a low DR dragon for example. Perhaps, creamsteak, you will consider halving the DR ECL?  Perhaps, such a thing is simply beyond the scope of this game, and should be considered for another game.

Re,

Carl W. Rowe


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## Kalanyr (Sep 16, 2002)

A DR 1 Demigod can be found here: 
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=367957#post367957


He seems about equal to the 27th Level Divine Rank 0 above and compares favourably to the other two posted epic level characters, ECL 20 seems about right, the only real problem is that the Paragon template produces a stronger creature in most cases. 
(Of course the paragon creature also is usually greater than a plain 37th level character. (+25 to hit compensates for more than the 15 levels less BAB (the strength increase is an added bonus for another +7), +15 Con and +12 HP/HD and Max HP/HD more than compensates for missing Hit Dice, the Insight Bonus and stat increases on saves and skills compensate for missing levels and the DC/Caster level increase compensates for missing class levels and SR of 44 is impressive, in addition to this they get Fast Healing 20, Fire and Cold Resistance, 3x the movement rate,Increased DCs and Caster level, on top of this they gain at least  +31 to AC, 2 Bonus feats )


EDIT- The DR  0 or 1 or 2-5 Diety does get stat increases as discussed here: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=367664#post367664.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

Cream I'm stuck with the Infernal at ECL 30 as it is... that would mean its monster HD and the works... that would mean 40HD at ECL 30 (beats me why other then that these things should be feared but I don't mind  )

And I'd like to know what from the Paragorn template you could get for +7 ECL?=]


The goal is a 40HD Infernal (as per the ELH 30 ECL what you get) with some goodies equalling 7 ECL from the paragorn template. It's evil I know but it's supposed to be a terror of the Abyss =]


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

By the Standard CS wrote earlier of stat increase divide by 6 = ecl. A Paragon Template would cost 15 ECL which is probably could be termed as low.  I am currently working on a Paragon character I will post in a bit.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

I'm not really interested in the +ability scores 

More like +12 hp, +attack + dam + ac + saves the specials and full HP arent interesting and the fast heal and the resis and the immunities and the bonus feats and the +10 skill and some more, just the first few things are nice and what I want.

I wanna be a big bad Abyss terror


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

The problem with it being that Paragon should not in anyway be a ecl +7 template. It gives far to much.  15 is closer.  Here is the character that I am working on to this point.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

Officially its +18 ECL according to the ELH, and if you read my post correct it says I just want a few things and by far not all, just wanna see how much and what I'd get for +7.

At first I'm not even interested in the + stats wouldn't mind the 42 stat points you'd get for a +7 template according to creams method but the abilities are better and more usefull.


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

Xavier Waverider 

*Race:* Paragon Death Slaad SpellFire Channeler 3
*Type:* Medium-Size Outsider (Chaotic)
*Alignment:* Chaotic Neutral
*Hit Dice:* 16d8 (max)+304+192 plus 3d4(max)+57+36 (729 hp)
*Initiative:* +23 (+19 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
*Speed:* 180 ft. (90 ft. with Fly spell)
*AC:*	 73 (+19 Dex, +12 natural, +12 insight, +12 luck, +8 Armor)
*Base Attacks:* Melee: +62 (+16 BAB, +25 Luck, +20 Str +1 Epic)
*Attacks:* 2 claws +62 melee, bite +57 melee
*Damage:* Claw 3d6+40 and stun, bite 2d10+40
*Face/Reach:* 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Stun, spell-like abilities, summon slaad, Sonic Breath weapon (variation)
*Special Qualities:* Fast healing 20, damage reduction 20/+6, resistances, telepathy, alternate form
*Saves:* Fort +43, Ref +43, Will +40
*Abilities:* *Str* 40 (50),  *Dex* 38 (48), *Con* 37 (48), *Int* 38, *Wis* 38 (42), *Cha* 38 (48)
*Skills:* Balance +50 (19), Bluff +54 (25), Climb +49 (19), Concentration +54 (25), Decipher script +33 (9), Disguise +50 (19), Escape Artist +48 (19), Hide +48 (19), Jump +51 (19), Knowledge (Planes) +43 (19), Knowledge (Arcana) +49 (25), Knowledge (Religion) +43 (19), Listen +45 (19),  Move Silently +48 (19), Search +43 (19), Sense motive +51 (25), Spellcraft +49 (25), Spot +41 (19), Tumble +50 (19), Use Psionic Device +48 (19), Use Magic device +48 (19) 
*Challenge Rating:* 28
*Feats:* Endurance, Spellfire wielder, Improved Initiative, Improved counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Combat reflexes, Quicken spell like ability (1 times per spell like ability/day), Penetrate Damage Reduction (count as +8 weapon), Weapon focus (spellfire) (class ability)

*Languages:* Slaad, Common, Abyssal, Aquin, Celestial, Druidic, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Illithid,  Infernal, Undercommon, Drow, Githzerai

*Resistances (Ex):* Acid,electricity, and sonic resistance 5. Fire and cold resistance 10.  Ring grants 30 resistance to all elements.

*Spell Resistance(su):* 29 (Changed to HD+10)

*Stun (Ex):* A death slaad can use Stunning Fist as the feat, three times per day. The save DC is 48. Has bonus of +13 insight bonus from paragon.

*Spell-Like Abilities:* At will: animate objects, circle of death, chaos hammer, cloak of chaos, deeper darkness, detect magic, dispel law, fear, finger of death, fireball, fly, identify, invisibility, magic circle against law, power word blind, see invisibility, shatter, and word of chaos; 1/day-implosion. 3/day- Greater dispelling, Haste 
These abilities are as the spells cast by an 33rd-level sorcerer (save DC 24 + spell level).

*Alternate Form (Su):* A death slaad can shift between its natural and any humanoid form at will as a standard action. A death slaad whose personal treasure includes magic weapons will use these when in humanoid form. A death slaad remains in humanoid form indefinitely. The ability is otherwise similar to polymorph self cast by a 15th-level sorcerer.

*Summon Slaad (Sp):* Twice per day a death slaad can attempt to summon 1-2 red or blue slaadi with a 40% chance of success, or 1-2 green slaadi with a 20% chance of success. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A slaad that has just been summoned cannot use its own summon ability for 1 hour.

*Improved Healing (Su):* 1d4+1 point of healing per point of spellfire expended. 

*Increased Spellfire pool (Ex): * 144 maximum pool. 
0 to 48 : normal.
49 to 96 : Eyes glow, anything touched discharges 1 spellfire in harmless burst of light. 
97 to 144: Skin glows; touch release 1d4 level of spell fire as a light spell.

*Telepathy (Su):* Death slaadi can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language. 

*Combat (Ex):* As a paragon he gains +25 luck bonus to all attacks, +20 Luck bonus to all damage, +13 insight bonus to all special attacks, if applicable

*Saves (Ex):* As a paragon he gains +10 insight bonus to all saves.

*Skills (Ex):* As a paragon he gains +10 competence bonus on all skill checks. 

*Slaadi Chaotic Variation:*
*Narrow mouth : Breath weapon:* 20-ft. cone of sound (Damage : 19d6 Reflex half DC 50)

*Equipment:*

1 Belt of Mighty prowess  
1 Ring of universal elemental Resistance Major (right hand) (30 points each)
1 Ring of Spell-Battle (left hand)
1 Boots of Epic Swiftness (feet)
1 vest of resistance +5 (vest)
1 Amulet of the planes (pocket)
1 Cloak of Charisma +6 (cloak)
1 Bracers of armor +8
4 Stone of Earth elemental control (pocket)
1 Daern's Instant Fortress (pocket)
1 Set of Noble clothes (body)

2,607,000 gold coins

*Books that have been read:*
Manual of Gainful excercise +4
Manual of Bodily health +5
Manual of Quickness of Action +4
Tome of Clear thought +4
Tome of Leadership +4


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

no AL noted, guess CN?


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

Sorry, yes. CN


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## Kalanyr (Sep 16, 2002)

Macbrea said:
			
		

> *Xavier Waverider
> 
> *SNIP* Monster of Doom *




Hmmm, maybe I should change the Demigod to a Paragon. I'm impressed.


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

Darn, Unable to get to IRC from work.

Anyways, the guy can instantly know if  a spell is cast within 60 ft of him and redirect it whereever he likes.  Since, most spells he can consume with his spellfire ability. He is pretty much a mages nightmare.  The 26 rings of wizardry are to give him 260 spellfire points a day for casting and healing.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 16, 2002)

Hmmm... I may have just decided to go with an epic arcane trickster...


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

I assumed this is correct. As it states that a paragon creature gets Max hps and +12 addition hps per hd.  Which I felt probably should be off the race HD not any classes they are suppose to take. 


Hit Dice: 16d8 (max)+304+192 plus 6d4+114 (777 hp)


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

It's max for all HD even class, just check out it's description and that that the gods have, it's the same and they also get it for classes.


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

Cool, wasn't sure if it was just his race or his race plus classes that got that advantage... It will raise him 72 points plus max his hd for those 6 levels(I was using 2.5 hps per level).  Like, I said I am still working on him. I am sure there is a few things that can be tweaked.  Oddly, enough his CR is only 31.


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 16, 2002)

Um.....yeah.  Might need to redo some of my character Calidor.  Compared to some of you folks, he's just an annoying fly.... but then again I wasn't going for super monsters of death and destruction


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

It wasn't intentional. I was curious what would happen when you tossed the template on a pretty rough creature to start with.  I was going to play him kind of lacksadasial.


Ah, by the way. On an epic level rogue you want to put a ring of Blinking. That way all your attacks result in your opponent lossing their dex.


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 16, 2002)

I thought the ring of blinking would be pretty cheesy. <Edit:  rest of this paragraph deleted >

If I were going to go that route, I'd add improved invisibility to one of my rings.  Even with all of that, I still would not be able to hit your AC.  Sheesh.  Maybe if I caught it unaware, but even then....

Yeah, he'd wipe the floor with Calidor.  Although I guess I get to add a level, since 666,000 is 37th level?

37 * 36 / 2  * 1000 = 666,000.  Sheesh.  It equals that level.  That raises my attack routine by 1 for Epic Bab, but doesn't do anything else for me besides HP and Skill points....

Later!


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## Macbrea (Sep 16, 2002)

Ah, they updated the Faq to help determine how the dieties were created in the Dieties and Demigods. 



All Dieties started as 13 HD Outsiders, for Class, skills and feats. Then they used a Standard array of 35, 28, 25, 24, 24, 24.  To this standard divine array they added +1 for every 4 class levels a deity had and +1 for every point of divine rank.  Then gave them adjustments based on the starting race they were. 



By the way. The ring of blinking is in the DMG. 

_
Blinking

On command, this ring makes the wearer blink, as with the blink spell.

Caster Level: 7th; Prerequisites: Forge Ring, blink; Market Price: 30,000 gp.

_


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 16, 2002)

Ack, you're right.  Man that's mean.... .  I'm just glad no one can sneak attack Calidor every round....

Guess I'm getting a ring of blinking....


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 16, 2002)

And then the Infernal had permanent Truesight as a racial *G* owyeah and 500ft blindsight


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## Creamsteak (Sep 17, 2002)

Paragon's will have to lose something, they can choose what they lose as individuals, unless they want to pay the full +18 ECL recommended:

Option 1) Lose maximized HD and 12 extra Hit points per HD

Option 2) Lose All Insight bonuses provided by the template

Option 3) Lose All Luck bonuses provided by the template

Option 4) Lose Speed bonus and all Special Qualities


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## Creamsteak (Sep 17, 2002)

You can use my character as an example of "par." My character (not equiped with anything yet) is very simple but still qualifies as a character following our requirements.

There's nothing tied to this "par" concept, but I'm just trying to give a standard to measure overpowered vs. underpowered from. That's my standpoint at least, I guess you don't have to agree...

Oh and anything in the ELH that says based off CR... bring it up with me and I'll find somethign more accurate to use. Basing anything on CR is relative, relatively idiotic...


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 17, 2002)

OK, well I updated my character.  Still working on equipment and backstory, but at least he's 37th now and has a few more toys 

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=367607#post367607


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

I thought I had brought it up enough but for the 5th time  Is the Infernal ok at the ECL 30 as it is in the ELH?


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 17, 2002)

*preliminary version*

ANCIENT HALF-CELESTIAL GOLD DRAGON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gargantuan Outsider (Fire, Good, Lawful)
Hit Dice: 35d12+350 (577 hp)
Hit Points: 583
Initiative: +5
Speed: 60 ft, fly 250 ft (clumsy), swim 60 ft
AC: 42 (+1 Dex, -4 size, +35 natural)
Attacks: Bite +51 melee, 2 claws +46 melee, 2 wings +46 melee, tail slap +46 melee
Damage: Bite 4d6+20, claw 2d8+10, wing 2d6+10, tail slap 2d8+30
Face/Reach: 20 ft by 40 ft / 15 ft
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities, luck bonus, detect gems, half-celestial spell-like abilities, frightful presence
Special Qualities: +4 save vs. poison, water breathing, immunities, DR 15/+2, blindsight, keen senses, SR 30
Saves: Fort +29, Ref +20, Will +32
Abilities: Str 50 (+20), Dex 12 (+1), Con 30 (+10), Int 34 (+12), Wis 36 (+13), Cha 40 (+15)
Skills: Bluff +50, Concentration +45, Diplomacy +50, Escape Artist +36, Jump +55, Knowledge (arcana, architecture, geography, history, nature, nobility, planes, religion, plus any 3) +47, Listen +50, Scry +47, Search +47, Sense Motive +48, Spellcraft +47, Spot +50
Feats: Hover, Flyby Attack, Power Attack, Cleave, Snatch, Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Evocation), Alertness, Wingover
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Challenge Rating: 24
Alignment: Always lawful good

SA–Breath Weapon (Su): Cone of fire, 60 feet long, every 1d4 rounds; damage 20d10, Reflex half DC 37. This dragon can use a cone of weakening gas instead, forcing subjects who fail a Fortitude save to take 10 points of temporary Strength damage.
SA–Frightful Presence (Ex): Dragons can unsettle foes with their mere presence. This ability takes effect automatically (radius 300 ft) whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. A potentially affected creature (one with less than 35 HD) that succeeds at a Will save (DC 42) remains immune to that dragon's frightful presence for one day. On a failure, creatures with 4 or fewer HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with more than 5 HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.
SA–Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day - polymorph self and bless; 1/day - geas/quest (DC 31), sunburst (DC 33).
SA–Luck Bonus (Sp): Once per day the dragon can touch one gem (usually embedded in the dragon's hide) and enchant it to bring good luck. As long as the dragon carries the gem, it and every good creature in a 100 foot radius receives a +1 luck bonus as per stone of good luck. If the dragon gives the gem to another creature, only the bearer gets the bonus. The enchantment lasts 1d3+30 hours but ends if the gem is destroyed. 
SA–Detect Gems (Sp): 3/day, the dragon can use this ability. Similar to detect magic, this spell finds only gems. Studying for one round reveals presence or absence of gems, 2 rounds reveals exact number of gems, and 3 rounds reveals exact location, type, and value. 
SA–Half-Celestial Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day-protection from evil, holy aura (DC 31); 1/day-bless, aid, detect evil, cure serious wounds, neutralize poison, holy smite (DC 27), remove disease, dispel evil (DC 28), holy word, hallow, symbol (DC 31), summon monster IX (celestials only), resurrection.
SQ–Fire Subtype (Ex): Fire immunity, double damage from cold except on a successful save.
SQ–Immunities (Ex): Immune to acid, cold, disease, electricity, sleep, paralysis.
SQ–Water Breathing (Ex): This dragon can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use its breath weapons, spells, and other abilities while submerged.
SQ–Blindsight (Ex): Dragons can ascertain creatures by nonvisual means (mostly hearing and scent, but also by noticing vibrations and other environmental clues); this dragon's range is 300 feet.
SQ–Keen Senses (Ex): Dragons can see four times as well as humans in low-light conditions and twice as well in normal light. They also have darkvision (range 1000 feet).
Spells Known (cast 6/10/10/10/9/9/9/7; as a level 15 sorcerer):
0-arcane mark, cure minor wounds, detect magic, detect poison, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, prestidigitation, read magic (DC 25);
1-expeditious retreat, cure light wounds, divine favor, protection from chaos, shield (DC26);
2-bull's strength, calm emotions, cat's grace, endurance, mirror image (DC 27);
[3–haste, dispel magic, protection from elements, slow; 4–spell immunity, dimension door, improved invisibility, detect scrying; 5–cloudkill, righteous might, dominate person, teleport; 6–heal, greater dispelling, harm; 7–spell turning, destruction.]


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## Macbrea (Sep 17, 2002)

As a suggestion, we should actually ban paragon race template from this game for player use.  It may give too much benefit to the race.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 17, 2002)

I'm against an Infernal at ECL 30 because Infernals have DR 0 as an abomination quality. Hence if you take an infernal and save the 7 levels you need only 3 more levels for divine rank 1. Is anyone going to tell me that Luithi with 3 more class levels is even remotely as powerful as that will end upl ?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

Kal ok now I'll start whining again about that alter reality is too powerfull since you can just take away anything you wish at will from any other non deity PC at your disposal. U want the whining u can have it... IMO alter reality is way too powerfull but you don't see me crying. You wanna be the deity, be my guest but that's your choise and live with it. I just pick my thing that's ok according to a "core" book and oeee it might be more powerfull (which it won't be since you can just wish all its powers away) then my min maxed munchy god dude with alter reality *G*

So now you wanna start teh whining be my guest.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 17, 2002)

Where the heck did you get the stuff about wishing away other Peoples abilities, its mentioned in precisely 0 books. So what are you talking about ?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

blablabla


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## Kalanyr (Sep 17, 2002)

And next up, I'm 20 levels below everyone else for the divine bonuses you get, now I think  this should get some compensation, Alter Reality is the only ability I've got that even has a chance of getting through the SR of the average CR 37 creature.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

That's your choise, make a better one if it doesn't appeal to you.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 17, 2002)

Yes, it is my choice. My point was that I paid for Alter Reality, not that I dislike my choice. If you would actually like to make some logical rebuttal of my above argument against the ECL 30 Infernal be my guest, if its a good argument I will withdraw my complaint.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 17, 2002)

After looking over many of the characters, I'm starting to get concerned. 

Will this game even be playable? 

Maybe I'm just not used to working with this scale of power, but with all the gods and monster characters and such, it seems that playing a human psion or something is just too mundane. 

It seems like the most important roll in combat will be initiative. If you don't go first, you die.

*shrug* Maybe its just me.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

It's just you  I for one wouldn't poses insta kill stuff if I get what I want


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## Janos Audron (Sep 17, 2002)

Kalanyr: the taking abilities away, is (partially) possible with Wish. There once was a debate in the Rules forum (about a year ago) that was about two players, one playing the Tarrasque and the other playing a Great Gold Wyrm.

The dragon player posted his strategy, which included Wishing away the Regeneration and the DR. I cannot remember if there was any person who objected to the strategy. There was some discussion about to what extend the abilities should be lowered. Some removed the DR entirely in 1 Wish, other suggested 10/+1 per Wish and many other suggestions...


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 17, 2002)

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *After looking over many of the characters, I'm starting to get concerned.
> 
> Will this game even be playable?
> *




I was having the same concern when I compared my character to the paragon death slaad.  It appears to blow everything away thus far.  My human Ftr/Rog can't touch its AC.


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## Macbrea (Sep 17, 2002)

I posted the death slaad as a possiblity for what could occur. I realize his AC is a touch high. But it is possible to get him in a few different ways.  That is the nature of high level fighting.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

High level AC's are rediculously high, my 16th level quickling has AC 71 and thats merely limited by available funds so it could be at least 10 higher without getting epic at all.

Btw I hope you do posess a brilliant energy weapon? If not for gods sake take one and then try to hit him again


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## Cloudgatherer (Sep 17, 2002)

I wish brilliant energy bypassed Natural Armor, but it only works against armor.  From what I've seen, the armor bonus is pretty low at epic levels (the slaad only has a +8 armor bonus).

Not sure it would be worth it....


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

Brilliant energy cuts through natural armor.


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## Macbrea (Sep 17, 2002)

Cloudgatherer said:
			
		

> *I wish brilliant energy bypassed Natural Armor, but it only works against armor.  From what I've seen, the armor bonus is pretty low at epic levels (the slaad only has a +8 armor bonus).
> 
> Not sure it would be worth it.... *





OK, my Ac on the Slaad is a 73. Which by the way doesn't include any bonuses from cloak of chaos or haste.  Which, I will be using in combat.  Putting my AC at 81. 


Now, lets look how you could hit that without problems. 


If you took a Brilliant weapon your attacks drop my AC to 73. With A ring of blinking, I loss me dex versus you on all of your attacks, dropping my AC to 54.   This means that your attacks at +44 have a 50% chance of hitting me.  With all of my spells powered up. You get 4 of them at 50% and 4 more again at 25%. Which means on average you will hit me 5 times for a total of 5d6 + 75d6 damage averaging 280 damage. 

I don't think that is terribly bad considering I am going to hit you 3 time for about 143 damage. And in truth, an outsider is a fighter primary.


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## Macbrea (Sep 17, 2002)

Quote for SRD:

Brilliant Energy

A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion-such as its blade, axe head, or arrowhead-transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and enhancement AC bonuses do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. Bows, crossbows, and slings cannot be enchanted with this ability.

Caster Level: 16th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Market Price: +4 bonus


Therefor, it is stopped by Natural armor.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 17, 2002)

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *After looking over many of the characters, I'm starting to get concerned.
> 
> Will this game even be playable?
> 
> ...




Yeah, but it really won't mean anything. All of you can easily be revived by other players (especially gods) with extreme ease. So as far as player vs. player goes, everything is balanced by the simple fact that unless your in a major climax, you probably can be brought back for a pidly sum of resources and a diet soda.

As for player vs. creature, I'll reduce the experience reward sometimes, but I'll never raise the CR. If your ripping through encounters, so what? Eventually there will be an accident, and you'll slip on your face, and you'll see that your unbeatable character is just as subject to the dice as someone else. Also, at this point you guys will be facing encounters that come back for more, and run away when it's time. It's ok for fight to the death creatures at lower levels, but if it has an intelligence of at least 10, it knows that retreating is important.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 17, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *Kal ok now I'll start whining again about that alter reality is too powerfull since you can just take away anything you wish at will from any other non deity PC at your disposal. U want the whining u can have it... IMO alter reality is way too powerfull but you don't see me crying. You wanna be the deity, be my guest but that's your choise and live with it. I just pick my thing that's ok according to a "core" book and oeee it might be more powerfull (which it won't be since you can just wish all its powers away) then my min maxed munchy god dude with alter reality *G*
> 
> So now you wanna start teh whining be my guest. *




I won't allow it. Maybe dispel them for 1d4 rounds, but not remove permanently.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 17, 2002)

Sorry TFO, my decion on ECL=HD was a completely blanket decision.

That means that you can't use an infernal. Unless you make a major sacrifice... curses and stuff that are the equivelent of a negative template...


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 17, 2002)

> curses and stuff that are the equivelent of a negative template...




please do tell.. a cursed Infernal just is too cool... just look at it, a cursed infernal abomination.... if anything would ever get cursed it's the dispised unwated offspring of an evil deity and a fiend! That's cool! I hope you have some way to putting it at ECL 30 (so kill the 10 HD or something that equals it.)


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## Creamsteak (Sep 18, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *
> 
> please do tell.. a cursed Infernal just is too cool... just look at it, a cursed infernal abomination.... if anything would ever get cursed it's the dispised unwated offspring of an evil deity and a fiend! That's cool! I hope you have some way to putting it at ECL 30 (so kill the 10 HD or something that equals it.) *




I'll research the topic a little. I'm getting back into working on my FFT classes, so... yeah I'm probably going to spend 1% of my time on it, but I'll get to it eventually.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 18, 2002)

Question does this ECL=HD include a DR 0, because if it does, then DR 0 should be evaluated at +0 ECL.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 18, 2002)

It's a template not a race so the rule doesn't apply, same goes for paragorn and the rest.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 18, 2002)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> *Question does this ECL=HD include a DR 0, because if it does, then DR 0 should be evaluated at +0 ECL. *






*Looks around, then looks back* "Did I really just hear that?"

 

No Kal, my ratings I mentioned earlier still stand for Divine Ranks.
My Template ratings stand as well, even though that's not what you asked.

I'm not sure how you confused it but...


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 18, 2002)

Cream reply about the curses plz =]


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## Kalanyr (Sep 18, 2002)

Because a 40 HD Infernal with a -10 ECL template still had DR 0 for free. Unless you nix that.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 18, 2002)

TFO, let me think about it. If you've got an idea, speak up.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 18, 2002)

You start thinking and I'll do so as well


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## Zack2216 (Sep 18, 2002)

hmm...
About my question. I figure that if I have seen it, I can turn into it one way or another(through either shapechange or wildshape). 
Shapechange
 I figure my pc will be familiar with everything with cr 35 or less. This includes creatures with templates, but for game purposes, I will only aply one template at a time, as long as the cr isn't over 35. 
Wildshape
like shapechange, I will aply 1 template at a time to creatures wildshape allows me to turn into. For dragon wildshape, I am not allowed to aply templates, however, I will be able to turn into advanced greatworms, although I am still limited to the chromatic and prismatic dragons. For improved elemental wildshape, I will only turn into creatures with the elemental type. I wonder, are there templates that can turn one creature into an elemental type creature? However, as with shapechange, I will only use one template at a time. Vermin, plant, and animal wildshape are all in the same boat, so only one template at a time that keeps them as either vermin, plants, or animals.

So far I think that is it. Hopefully this will help my character keep up powerwise with our god pcs. I was curious, could I have a paragon legendary bear animal companion? Or is it too smart for that, and requires a leadership feat to take as a cohort?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 18, 2002)

Zack2216 said:
			
		

> *hmm...
> About my question. I figure that if I have seen it, I can turn into it one way or another(through either shapechange or wildshape).
> Shapechange
> I figure my pc will be familiar with everything with cr 35 or less. This includes creatures with templates, but for game purposes, I will only aply one template at a time, as long as the cr isn't over 35.
> ...




The Paragon part seems a bit much. Maybe you could take a leadership feat for it. Legendary animal wouldn't be too far. If I was a DM for a druid who worked his way up to 37 ECL I probably would have given him a chance at a legendary bear by level 30.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 18, 2002)

Looking through the discussion on Ring of Blinking, and looking at the Blink spell, the Ring of Blinking will not enable much in the way of additional hits on the Death Slaad, See Invisible at will (allows you to see ethereal, where blinking characters go), means that you aren't denied your dex bonus. Well that or the ring of Blinking is ridiculously underpriced. Though the wording on the Blink spell is kinda unclear as to whether or not see invisible negates it, but since the ability to see and strike ethereal negates all the other bonuses of Blink this seems like the intention.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 18, 2002)

This is an Infernal with Divine Rank 0 removed ( ECL 40 by CS's system): 


Infernal (With Divine Rank 0 removed)
Large Outsider (Evil) (Chaotic or Lawful)
Hit Dice: 40d8+360 (540 hp)
Initiative: +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 40 ft, Fly 120 ft (Perfect)
AC 50 (+7 Dex, -1 Size +34 Natural)
Attacks 2 Claws +48 Melee 1 Bite +42 melee, 2 wings +42 melee, 1 tail slam +42 melee
Damage Claw 4d6+8 , bite 4d8+4 +spell suck, wing 2d6+4, tail slam 4d8+4
Face/Reach: 5 ft x 5 ft/10 ft
Special Attacks: Improved Grab, Spell Suck, Learned Spell Immunity, Spell-like Abilities, Summon Fiend.
Special Qualities: Fast Healing 15, Regeneration 15, SR 38, DR 35/+7, Modified Abomination Traits 
Skills: (as ELH) except Jump +13
Feats: As ELH
Epic Feats: As ELH
Saves: Fort +31 Ref +29 Will +30
Abilites: Str 27 Dex 25 Con 28 Int 22 Wis 26 Cha 29

Combat
As ELH except
Modified Abomination Traits: Cold Resistance 20, Nondetection,True Seeing at Will, Blindsight 500', Telepathy out to 1000'


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 18, 2002)

Back to the drawing board......

Thanks for the heads up guys.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 18, 2002)

Ashrem, the Ioun Stone bonuses are enhancement Bonuses, so are the ones from the +12/8/6 (item) of (stat)ness. So it doesn't stack.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 18, 2002)

Also according to some 'preview' errata, Bruce Cordell put on Monte's Boards:

The Metapsionic Point Cap ceases to grow after level 20, giving you a 21 point cap, unless you take Improved Manifster (which gives you enough extra PP to manifest a power of the appropriate level and the appropriate stat bonus for an extra power level apparently there's some easy to see pattern) and increases the limit by 2 PP. 

Psion's don't get 17 PP per level after 20 either, its supposed to be 1 additional power (from the primary disciple only) per level after 20.  

With the Epic Manifester feat, you do have access to Life/Heal seeds as long as you have the required 24 ranks in Knowledge (Religion).


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 18, 2002)

*Cerevex*

35th Level Human Psion (Savant)
Lawful Neutral
Experience: 612,260

*HEIGHT:* 5’-11”
*WEIGHT:*  155 lbs. (1,550 lbs. when using Skin of Iron)
*DESCRIPTION:* Cerevex appears as a well muscled, middle aged, human male. His eyes are a piercing emerald green and he has no hair. His body is covered in strange tattoo that occasionally seem to move about on their own accord. Several small crystalline stones constantly orbit him and a small bag hangs from his belt. He typically only wears thin silk pants with no shoes or shirt. 

The only other adornments Cerevex sports are a crystal imbedded in the center of his forehead and a blue and gold cloak. When in combat, an amorphous substance flows over his body covering him in a skin of metal. When the psychoactive skin is active, Cerevex appears to be made entirely of mercury. 

*STR*	10 (21/27)	+5/8	(+5 Manual, Belt of Giant Strength +6 / Skin of Iron +6)
*DEX*	16 (27/21)	+8/5	(+5 Manual, Gloves of Dexterity +6 / Skin of Iron -6)
*CON*	23 (40)		+15	(+5 Manual, Epic Bracers of Health +12)
*INT *	14 (27)		+8	(+5 Tome, Epic Third Eye of Intellect +8)
*WIS*	20 (32)		+11	(+5 Tome, Epic Amulet of Wisdom +8)
*CHA*	12 (17)		+3	(+5 Tome)

*HIT POINTS* 630

*FORTITUDE:*	+33 (+6 Base + 7 Epic + 15 Ability + 5 Ioun Stone)
*REFLEX:*		+26/ +23 (+6 Base + 7 Epic + 8/5 Ability + 5 Ioun Stone)
*WILL:*		+37 (+12 Base + 7 Epic + 11 Ability + 2 Psi-Crystal + 5 Ioun Stone)

*ARMOR CLASS:* 
Standard: 18
Touch Attack: 18
Flat Footed: 10
Standard w/ Skin of Iron: 18
Standard w/ Epic Inertial Armor: 58
Standard w/ Skin of Iron and Epic Inertial Armor: 55

*DAMAGE RESISTANCE:*	50/+3 (Skin of Iron)
*POWER/MAGIC RESISTANCE:* 40 (Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance)
*IMMUNITIES:* When wearing Skin of Iron - Blindness, Critical Hits, Ability Score Damage, Deafness, Disease, Drowning, Poison, Stunning, and all spells and powers that effect physiology and respiration. Immune to and reflects back all spells and psionic powers of 9th level or less.
*INITIATIVE:* +12/9
*MOVEMENT:* 30


* ATTACKS*  Base Attack Bonus: +18/+14

Rod of Cerevex (Club +5, Powerstoring)    
Attack: +28/+24 (+30/+27 w/ Skin of Iron)
Damage: 1d6+13 (1d6+17 w/ Skin of Iron)


*FEATS:*
Improved Inititative
Encode Stone
Craft Dorje
Maximize Power  (+6PP - PHB)
Quicken Power  (+8PP - PHB)
Resculpt Mind  (Mind’s Eye)
Empowered Psicrystal  (Mind’s Eye)
Hide Power  (+2PP - PHB)
Twin Power   (+8PP - PHB)
Psychic Assault   (+2 PP / +1 DC Mod to Psychic Attack DC, Max +17 – Mind’s Eye)
Improved Manifestation (Increases Metapsionic limit by +2)
Automatic Quicken Power
Automatic Quicken Power
Automatic Quicken Power
Multipower
Multipower
Epic Manifesting
Intensify Power  (+14 PP – ELHB)
Power Knowledge
Improved Manifesting (+19 PP)
Improved Manifesting (+19 PP)
Improved Manifesting (+19 PP)
Improved Manifesting (+19 PP)
Improved Manifesting (+19 PP)


*SKILLS*  (421 Total Points)
(Tome of Understanding at 12th Epic, Third Eye of Intellect at 20th)

Autohypnosis		20	+	11	=	+31
Concentration		20	+	15	=	+35
Disable Device		15	+	8/5	=	+23/+20
Knowledge Psionics	37	+	8	=	+45
Open Lock		20	+	8/5	=	+28/+25
Pick Pocket		15	+	8/5	=	+25/+22 (+2 Bluff Synergy)
Psicraft			37	+	8	=	+45
Remote View		15	+	11	=	+26
Search			22	+	8	=	+30
Knowledge (Planes)	22	+	8	=	+30
Knowledge (Arcane)	4	+	8	=	+12
Spot			10	+	11	=	+21
Listen			7	+	11	=	+18
Sense Motive		10	+	11	=	+21
Stabilize Self		1	+	15	=	+16
Move Silently		10	+	8	=	+18/+15
Hide			10	+	8	=	+18/+15
Diplomacy		15	+	3	=	+21 (+2 Bluff Synergy)
Bluff			15	+	3	=	+18
Intimidate		15	+	3	=	+18
Gather Information	13	+	3	=	+16


*EQUIPMENT & EXPENSES*

All six ability increasing Tomes and Manual 	(825,000gp)
Belt of Giant Strength +6				(36,000gp)		
Gloves of Dexterity +6				(36,000gp)
Epic Bracers of Health +12			(1,440,000gp)
Epic Third Eye of Intellect +8			(640,000gp)
Epic Periapt of Wisdom +8			(640,000gp)
Skin of Iron					(240,000gp)
Ring of Epic Psionics IX				(810,000gp)
Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance (SR:40)		(290,000gp)
Torc of Psionic Might				(12,000gp)
Dorje: Hypercognition (50)			(114,750gp)
Dorje: Astral Construct 9 (50)			(114,750gp)
Dorje: Improved Etherealness (50)			(90,000gp)
Dorje: Energy Conversion (50)			(38,250gp, 1,530 XP)
Dorje: Disentegrate (50)				(24,750gp, 1,180 XP)
Dorje: Null Psionics/Magic Field (50)		(49,500gp)
Dorje: Sending (50)				(49,500gp)
Tattoo: Fly x 10					(7,500gp)
Tattoo: Time Hop x 2				(1,500gp)
Tattoo: Rejuvination x 2				(1,500gp)
Power Stone: Greater Concussion x 10		(3,750gp)
Power Stone: Fly x 5				(3,750gp)
Power Stone: Dissolution x 3			(5,736gp, 229 XP)
Power Stone: Telekinetic Sphere x 3		(4,500gp, 180 XP)
Bag of Holding II:				(5,000gp)
Crystal Anchor, Ghost Anchor			(11,300gp)
Crystal Mask of Psicraft (+30 Psicraft)		(18,000gp)
New Epic Power: Epic Inertial Armor		(531,000gp, 21,240 XP)
Epic Power: Epic Spell Reflection			(630,000gp, 7,500 XP)
Crystal Capacitor (15 Points) x 5			(320,000gp)
Potion of Haste x 4				(3,000gp)
Potion of Cure Serious Wounds x 10		(7,500gp)
Potion of Tongues x 5				(3,750gp)
Ioun Stone: Clear (Sustains without food or water)	(5,000gp)
Ioun Stone: Iridescent (Sustains without air)		(15,000gp)
Ioun Stone: Pale Blue (+5 Fortitude Save)		(12,500gp)
Ioun Stone: Pale Purple (+5 Will Save)		(12,500gp)
Ioun Stone: Pale Red (+5 Reflex Save)		(12,500gp)

*TREASURE:*
140,464  (6,600,000 Total Value)

*PSIONICS* 
Power Points: 946 (265 (base) + 440 (Stat + Improved Manifestation) + 35 (Psicrystal) +147 (Ring) +75 (Capacitors) -16 (Mind Blank)
Metapsionic Limit: 19 + 12 (6 x Improved Manifesting) = 31
Primary Discipline: Psychokinesis
Secondary Disciplines: Telepathy & Clairsentience

*Psionic Combat*
Tower of Iron Will
Thought Shield
Mind Blast
Id Insinuation
Psychic Crush

*Talents:	Cost: Free 38 times per day or 1*

Detect Psionics
Missive
Daze
Inkling
Finger of Fire
Far Hand
Far Punch
Elfsight
Catfall

*1st Level 	Cost: 1*

Matter Agitation
Shield
Identify
Control Object
Charm Person


*2nd Level	Cost: 2*

Control Air
Control Body
Control Flames
Suggestion
Invisibility
See Invisibility
Body Adjustment
Detect Thoughts
Rejuvenation


*3rd Level 	Cost: 4*

Greater Concussion
Schism
Remote Viewing
Displacement
Negate Psionics/Magic
Fate Link
Mindlink

*4th Level 	Cost: 6*

Telekinesis
Mindwipe
Freedom of Movement
Domination
Mass Concussion

*5th Level 	Cost: 8*

Psychic Vampire
True Seeing
Teleport
Mind Probe


*6th Level		Cost: 10*

Disintegrate
Mind Switch
Trace Teleport
Ablating
Null Psionics Field
Retrieve


*7th Level 	Cost: 12*

Emulate Power
Improved Telekinesis
Energy Conversion
Plane Shift
Divert Teleport
True Concussion 


*8th Level 	Cost: 14*

Telekinetic Sphere
Mind Blank
Hypercognition
Improved Clairtangency


*9th Level 	Cost: 16*

True Telekinesis
Greater Emulation
Genesis
Detonation
Dissolution
Temporal Velocity (Power Knowledge)
Probability Travel (Power Knowledge)

*EPIC SPELL REFLECTION* – As per Epic Level Handbook. DC: 63 (-5 due to specialization)

*EPIC INERTIAL ARMOR*	4/day
*Psicraft DC:* 59
*Displays:* Au,
*Manifesting Time:* 10 minutes
*Target:* Personal
*Duration:* 24 hours
*Saving Throw:* None (Harmless)
*Spell Resistance:* None (Harmless)
*To Develop:* 531,000; 11 days; 21,240 XP. Seed: armor (DC 14). Factors: +36 additional armor bonus (+72 DC); 10 min. manifesting time (-20 DC); Personal Target (-2 DC); Specialty School (-5 DC)

An invisible, but tangible field of force surrounds the psion, providing a +40 armor bonus to Armor Class. Unlike mundane armor, _epic inertial armor_ entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Because _epic inertial armor_ is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it in the way they do normal armor. 


*PSI-CRYSTAL*

*Tarsis*
Hit Dice:		35 (20hp)
Initiative		+6
Speed:			Varies
AC:			13 (-5 Dex, +8 Size); Hardness 15
Attacks:			--
Damage:		--
Face/Reach:		Special
Special Attacks:		Special
Special Qualities:		Regenerate 2d4hp per day, Personality (Resolve)
Saves:			Special
Abilities:		Str: 1, Dex 0, Con -, Int 22, Wis 20, Cha 12
Skills:			Special
Feats:			--

Special Abilities:	Sighted, Empathic Link, Telepathic Link, Self-Propulsion, Speak with Other Creatures, Power Resistance:40, Sight Link, Channel Power, Hardened Crystal, Power Storing*, Greater Self-Propulsion, Energized Crystal, Discipline Focus, Psionatrix Essence, Phasing

*Negate Psionics/Magic


*NOTES*

Cerevex manifests _mind blank_ and _epic inertial armor_ every morning.

*Demiplane of Cerevex*
Cerevex has initiated Genesis and now resides on his own demiplane floating in the astral plane. The demiplane takes the form of a 700ft diameter wooded island with a lake in the center. Built around the lake is a small fortress in which Cerevex resides. The demiplane has breathable air and remains a comfortable temperature of 70 degrees.

Within the demiplane, the following powers are always in effect:
Detect Psionics/Magic
Far Hand
See Invisibility

Cerevex’s sleeping and meditation chamber has a Ghostanchor set in its center. The walls are lined with lead.


*BACKGROUND*

*History*

Born 522 years ago, the being now known as Cerevex showed astounding psionic potential. As he grew, he desired to pursue his psionic talents to the point of obsession. Cerevex reasoned that psionic power stemmed from the perfection of the body and mind. He began a worldwide search for objects of power that would enhance his already considerable power.

Cerevex spent many years in search of ancient tomes, manuals, and objects of power to further improve his abilities. Unfortunately, time began to catch up to him. Death loomed ahead. Cerevex began a desperate search for immortality. He turned to his psychic potential in search of unlocking the secret of eternal youth. 

After many years, Cerevex found an answer. He could implant his mind into the body of another. It was a selfish answer, but he saw no other options. He set out to find the perfect host and after a short time, he came upon a young man of near perfect health. He took the man’s body and remained in that form until it too began to grow old and feeble. And so it was that Cerevex would live forever by taking the bodies of others.

*Recent*

A decade or so ago Cerevex discovered how to manipulate the substance of the astral plane. He put into motion the genesis of his new home plane. Within his plane, he had a home constructed by a group of githzerai who took his teachings as payment.

Currently Cerevex resides upon his plane and occasionally ventures back to the prime material out of boredom or to seek materials or magic items to further his psionic advancement and research. He has a deal with many of githyanki and githzerai who provide services and materials in exchange for encoded power stones and psionic lore.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 18, 2002)

I just fell down and cried for about 10 mins when I saw that he has no temporal velocity or time regression *ugh*


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## Zack2216 (Sep 19, 2002)

so, what is the most gp we can spend on one item again?

Also, can I take the permanent emanation spell and control weather?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 19, 2002)

Zack2216 said:
			
		

> *so, what is the most gp we can spend on one item again?
> 
> Also, can I take the permanent emanation spell and control weather? *




1/10th of your wealth would be about right for a cap. You can break it by as much as 50%, so up to 3/20ths...


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## Mr. Draco (Sep 19, 2002)

Well, I just got my ELH today and while looking through it, a thought struck me.  A leshay looks like it'd be really fun to play   So, any open slots left?  If so, could somebody outline for me the basic character creation rules?

If you have a spare slot open, i can have a character ready by monday.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 19, 2002)

Mr. Draco said:
			
		

> *Well, I just got my ELH today and while looking through it, a thought struck me.  A leshay looks like it'd be really fun to play   So, any open slots left?  If so, could somebody outline for me the basic character creation rules?
> 
> If you have a spare slot open, i can have a character ready by monday. *




Monday is still early, but I'm very open ended. We are working with ECL = HD, and ECL Cap at 666,000 xp (37th level).

I might be changing that sometime, but for now just go ahead and submit... must nap now... have much work tomorrow.


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## Mr. Draco (Sep 19, 2002)

Hrm... ECL=HD.  Well, that throws out the leshay (at 50 HD).  I assume I'm allowed to argue my case?  Well, I'll give it a try.

The Leshay is listed at CR 28 and ECL 32.  According to the ELH, that means that the Leshay as written is an ECL 32 (specific feat & skill selection i'm assuming don't change the ECL, just the number of feats/skills).  I propose that the Leshay should be left at ECL 32.  Now, the Leshay + 5 levels would not be equal to ECL 37 if you gave the character normal starting gp for 37th level (9,900,000gp).  This is because the equipment for the Leshay (standard treasure for it's CR) is calculated in as part of the ECL.  Now, standard treasure for a CR 28 encounter is 170,000gp.  This means that a Leshay + 170,000gp 
(worth of equipment/etc) = Level 32 character.  This makes sense to me, as it's saying that the Leshay race + 170,000gp = 32 Levels + 5,600,000gp.

So, for extra racial abilities, a Leshay character looses 5,430,000gp.

Following this, it means that an ECL 37 Leshay (assuming ECL of leshay is 32; i.e.- ELH value) is basically:

Leshay + 5 levels + 9,900,000gp (starting for 37th level character) - 5,430,000gp (amount that is lost to make up for leshay racial abilities.  Or, in other words:

Leshay + 5 levels + 4,470,000gp = ECL 37.

To make up for the extra hp and racial abilities, the Leshay begins with less than half of the regular value of equipment.

What do you think regarding this argument?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 19, 2002)

Have the same prob. draco I wanna do the infernal =]


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## Kalanyr (Sep 19, 2002)

Ashrem, the Bonus PP from your improved manifesting/manifestation is wrong (they are the same feat), you get 19 PP for the first one, 21 for the second, 23 for the third and so on. So you should get 19+21+23+25+27+29=144 PP. 

Also your Metapsionic PP limit should be 19 + 12(6 x Improved Manifesting) = 31

Edit: Found my PsiHB, the Bonus PP from the Con 40 would be 296 total.  For a grand total of 440 PP added on to the base number of PP for being 20th level, and then adjusted by an appropriate items and such you have.

Edit: Found ITCK total PP = 265 (base) + 440 (Stat + Improved Manifestation) + 35 (Psicrystal) +147 (Ring) +75 (Capacitors) -16 (Mind Blank) =  946 PP

Edit- Oh and by the way how did you get such good saves ?


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 19, 2002)

Thanks for the help Kalanyr, this is my first Epic Character and it has been very appreciated.

I'm going to repost my character with the changes you mentioned and a few other things that occured to me last night.

I'll also break down the saves. 

EDIT: OOPS! Evidently I added the ability SCORE to the Saving Throws instead of the Modifier. Duh!


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 19, 2002)

I edited my character in the previous character post. Let me know if you see anything wrong.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 19, 2002)

No problem, Ashrem.

Unfortunately I have one last piece of bad news, you're BAB ceases growing after Level 20 (+10/+5) after that you get 1 epic bonus per two levels. Which doesn't give you extra attacks, so your attack data should be +18/+13.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 19, 2002)

Thanks

No big deal. I don't plan on using a weapon much anyway.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 19, 2002)

This is truly nitpicky of me, but you should probably change the Improved Manifesting/Manifestation feats to the same name, and correct the incorrect descriptions beside them.


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## Mr. Draco (Sep 21, 2002)

Well, does anybody have any comments on the leShay?  Are my arguments worth anything?  Do you think it is fair at the ECL the book gives?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 21, 2002)

It's hard to make a decision. In Leshay's case, they are pretty fairly well equiped, with strange abilities like heal at will, but not really out of order. The solution would be to drop some Hit Dice, but the reprecussions would be strange. Same for the Infernal. I don't want to shoot down character concepts either... but since I just woke up, I should have plenty of time to work on it tonight.


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## Zack2216 (Sep 21, 2002)

can I take the permanent spell emanation feat with control weather?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 21, 2002)

Zack, if it's by the ELH, you can do it. I think it's a normal selection, pretty sure at least.

OK, I GIVE...

We can use ECL stated in the DMG, Manual of the Planes, Epic Level Handbook, and whatever. Just check with me about it.

IF those are not available, then ECL = HD.

I'll OK the Infernal and Leshay with the ECL in the ELH.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 21, 2002)

I want to use this creature from the CC by Swords and Sorcerery for my PC if possible:

*The False Lover*
Medium-size Undead (Unhallowed)
HD: 10d12+40 (105)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: 60 ft.
AC: 18 (+2 Dex, +6 Natural)
Attacks: None
Damage: None
Special Qualities:  Invulnerable, pleasing illusion, unearthly glamour, undead
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +13
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 21
Skills: Bluff +13, Diplomacy +13, Gather Information +11, Innuendo +12, Listen +9, Sense Motive +13, Spot +9
Feats: Iron Will, Leadership
Climate/Terrain: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 7
Alignment: Always Lawful Evil

Invulnerable (Ex): Until confronted by their crimes on holy ground, the Unhallowed cannot be slain.  If they are reduced to 0 hit points during a battle, they simply vanish before attacker's eyes, only to return to the mortal plane the following night.  **See Below**

Pleasing Illusion (Su):  The false lover is capable of concealing his undead features with clever illusions, allowing him to change apperance at will.  For this reason, these creatures have an effective Charisma of 21 when determining reaction rolls, followers, etc.  Victims may see through the illusion only with a successful Will save (DC 19) and *only* if they know to look for it specifically. **I'm assuming the effective Cha goes up with its normal Cha since they remain the same, DC for the ability seems to be 10+1/2 HD+Int mod (for being clever I guess)**

Unearthly Glamour (Su):  Such is the power of the false lover's glamour that even the hardest hearts can be seduced into his service.  The false lover can pick a single target in a combat round and subject the victim to the full force of his charms.  The target must immediately make a Will save (DC 20) or fall under the false lover's sway.  The victim is under the creature's direct control so long as they remain within sight of each another.  Once the two are separated the control ebbs, but the victim is never quite the same again, and if the creature uses its glamour on the person again the victims DC is increased to 28.  **The initial DC is 10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier, the second one I'm not sure of but the only reasonable explanation I think is 10+1/2 HD+Cha Mod+Int Mod+Wis Mod**
Undead: (Same as MM description)



> The Unhallowed cannot be destroyed by sword or spell alone;  their crimes must be exposed before the gods and their unholy will broken before their protection can be stripped away and justice served.  The first step in laying one of these creatures to rest is to learn its true name and the terrible act committed that set its feet on the path of evil.  This discovery alone can be the object of a major quest, as these spirits frequently roam from place to place, far from the lands of their birth, and many are centuries or millennia old, their exploits now only fragments of forgotten lore.  If and when this knowledge is uncovered, the creature must be confronted in a holy place, its name and crime spoken aloud to call the attention of the gods.  Once this is done, the being may be fought and destroyed, but even then the battle is certain to be bloody and grim.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 21, 2002)

Ahem, *no where* in the ELH does it say that Paragon is ECL 18, TFO, I assume you extrapolated the ECL 18 by assuming the Mind Flayer is ECL 8, and with a Mindflayer's spell-like abilities (including a 9th level spell at will) and similar, I *highly* doubt that its ECL 8 itself...


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## Creamsteak (Sep 21, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Ahem, *no where* in the ELH does it say that Paragon is ECL 18, TFO, I assume you extrapolated the ECL 18 by assuming the Mind Flayer is ECL 8, and with a Mindflayer's spell-like abilities (including a 9th level spell at will) and similar, I *highly* doubt that its ECL 8 itself... *




Sollir is right. Well, cancel anything I said about ECL and just work on your characters however you want them. I'm going to be working with Kal, Sollir, and others to try and extrapolate a rather rudementary CR/ECL system other than HD or CR.


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## Dalamar (Sep 21, 2002)

I updated my character to 37th level and also bought all the Manuals and Tomes.
I still haven't added bonus skill points from increasing Int to skill points. Starting from what level should I add them?


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 21, 2002)

K cream, thanks. Now to see how much I can eat of the Paragorn template for +7 ECL =]

And yes I extrapolated the MF from the *normal* ecl of 8. And +18 seems ok... 18 HD is ALOT IMO.

Btw cream just one small thingy. If ELH creatures with more HD then ECL pick classes don't givem HD for the classes up until they get more class levels then they had more HD then ECL.

Example: Infernal with 10 fighter levels would still be 40HD with 11 fighter levels HD 41. But you might want to change the HD that's like a Infernal with 2 fighter levels is 38d8 + 2d10 that kinda stuff or infernal with 8 psion levels 32d8 +8d4, but that might put up the question if you can keep the best HD but I think that's a bit pushing it.

So no extra HD untill you actually ECL=HD and classes up till that ECL of HD change HD to the class.

Any opinions on that?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 22, 2002)

Allright, I'm changing things AGAIN! LIKE THE INSANE GUY I AM!

Let's just do ECL=HD, with one exception: Fey HD. Fey HD are worth 80%, because it's been brought to my attention that they... suck. So, you can have 60 Fey HD, or take a 50HD Fey and 10 character levels.

But, here's the boon to make all things possible, I'm upgrading the ECL cap to 50 (yes more than 10x as insane), and you each get the starting gold of about 34.2 million.

This means longer times working out characters, more crazyness, and such...

And TFO... there will be NO +7 ECL PARAGON. None... none none none.

Yes, this is insane... way more insane than I am. This decision was made because apparently I should accomodate my players rather than them accomodating me... apparently    ?


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## Howling Coyote (Sep 22, 2002)

Level 50!!! 

That means I'll have to remake my character concept entirely.

If I take epic leadership, can the followers be undead. I'm thinking about a demilich, at the moment, which's has a small city of undead to rule.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 22, 2002)

Howling Coyote said:
			
		

> *Level 50!!!
> 
> That means I'll have to remake my character concept entirely.
> 
> If I take epic leadership, can the followers be undead. I'm thinking about a demilich, at the moment, which's has a small city of undead to rule. *




 I agree. Yes, they can be undead, just use skeletons/zombies=warriors of the same HD. Then, when you git up to third and fourth level cohorts and you can select things with character levels, like ghosts and liches, just follow my +ECL for templates rule of thumb I posted earlier.

Yes level 50 is insane. If you want to lower it, tell everyone. Tell them loudly... but if you like it, say that as well.


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## Howling Coyote (Sep 22, 2002)

Insane is not the word I would use. This is pure madness, but I like it. I just wonder how someone can run a game with that power level, I certainly could not do it.

So do I use the EHL +12 ECL for a demilich, or the +6 that can be derived from the attributes?

Can I use the Strongholds book? It would be interesting to design an insane fortress to my character, not to mention spend all that money into. 

I assume the FRCS and MoF are on the okay list for usable material. 

(Maybe this all would be easier if I just made a mature adult force dragon)


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## Kalanyr (Sep 22, 2002)

Luithi
Luithi the Wanderer
Demigod
Symbol: A blurred hooden figure against a gold background
Home Plane: Arborea
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Portfolio: Freedom, Eladrin
Worshippers: Wanderers, Holy Liberators, Eladrin 
Cleric Alignments: Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral
Domains: Magic,Liberation,Trickery
Favored Weapon: Taleanthia (The Light of the Stars) (Lightblade) ( Rapier)

Luithi (Lew-ith-ee), god of freedom and Eladrin, appears as a tall ,7 feet, golden-haired green-eyed elven lord, draped in a robe of shimmering colours, or when he walks the mortal realms he appears as a brown cloaked itinerant elf, carrying only a bow, a quiver, a backpack and a quarterstaff.

Luithi is a Tulani Eladrin so ancient that he has ceased to merely represent the force of freedom, and has come to incarnate it.
Luithi wanders the Prime plane,under his veil, accompanied by his consort, Larentha, in order to better combat the machinations of devils and demons on the mortal world. 

When no threat is present they retreat to their Twilight Court in Arborea. A demiplane which serve both as Luithi's Divine Realm and as a home for Larentha's and his Twilight Court, as well as a home for their most loyal mortal servants.

Luitihi is somewhat cold, he has seen to many good people die to easily form close relationships with mortal creatures. But he is of kind spirit and seeks to aid those not of evil weal, and can be very generous to those who aid the cause of freedom.

Dogma
Do what is noble and good, do not give your word lightly and when given follow the spirit of the agreement over the letter, do not twist things to your advantage. Keep fit in mind and body and bring battle to tyrants, help those less able than yourself and never forget they beauty of the world.

Clergy and Temples
Lutithi has few organized temples and his clergy tend to be Eladrin. His mortal clergy are patient and prone to wander seeking to bring freedom where it is needed.



Luithi
Divine Rank 3
Male Tulani (Celestial,Eladrin,greater) Contemplative 3/Cleric 1 /Divine Disciple 1/Divine Agent 1
Medium-Sized Outsider (Chaotic, Good)
Hit Dice: 16d8+208 + 3d6 + 39 + 1d8 + 13 + 1d8+13 + 1d8 + 13 (456 hp)
Initiative: +20 (+16 Dex,+4 Improved Initiative, Always First) 
Speed: 60 ft., Fly 200 ft. (perfect)
AC:70  (+16 Dex, +16 Natural,+3 Divine, + 21 Deflection, +4 Haste)
Attacks: +4 lightblade +38/+38/+33/+28/+23; or alternate form attacks from any other eladrin
Damage: lightblade 2d4+24+2d8 positive energy  ; variable alternate damages
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Domain Powers,salient divine abilities, Spell-like abilities, spells, gaze, positive energy
Special Qualities: Alternate forms, Celestial qualities, Divine Immunities, Damage reduction 38/+4,Fire Resistance 23, SR 35, understand, speak and read all languages and speak directly to all beings within 3 miles, remote communication, godly realm, teleport without error at will, Divine Aura (30 feet, DC 34) , Divine Health, Prestige Domain (Mysticism),Haste, Domains (Animal, Air, Protection, Plant), Slippery Mind, Divine Wholeness
Saves: Fort +52 , Ref +51 , Will +66  
Abilities: Str 38 Dex 42 Con 36 Int 38 Wis 54 Cha 53
Skills:

```
[color=white]
Animal Empathy       +43             (19 Ranks)
Concentration        +41             (25 Ranks) 
Diplomacy            +49             (25 Ranks) 
Escape Artist        +38             (19 Ranks) 
Hide                 +38             (19 Ranks)
Iajitsu Focus        +49             (25 Ranks)
Intuit Direction     +30             (5 Ranks)
Knowledge (Nature)   +42             (25 Ranks) 
Knowledge (Arcana)   +42             (25 Ranks)
Knowledge (Religion) +42             (25 Ranks) 
Listen               +44             (19 Ranks)
Move Silently        +38             (19 Ranks)
Perform              +36             (12 Ranks) 
(Ballad, Dance, Drama, Epic, Fiddle, Flute, Lute, 
Speech, Storytelling, Tea Ceremony, Song, Violin)
Scry                 +43             (24 Ranks)
Sense Motive         +50             (25 Ranks) 
Search               +42             (23 Ranks) 
Spellcraft           +44             (25 Ranks)
Spot                 +45             (20 Ranks) 
Tumble               +38             (19 Ranks)
Wilderness Lore      +50             (25 Ranks)
[/color]
```
Feats: Improved Initiative, Leadership, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Teleport w/o Error), Track, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell
Epic Feats: Epic Leadership, Epic Spellcasting 
Alignment: Chaotic Good

Attack Bonus
Ranged Touch AB: +36 Touch: +34
Melee AB: +34 Ranged AB: +36

Divine Immunities: Ability Damage,Ability Drain,Acid,Cold,Death Effects,Disease,Disintegration,Energy Drain,Mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation

Salient Divine Abilities : Alter Reality (DC 44),Supreme Initiative, Divine Spellcasting, Gift of Life

Domain Powers: Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a 10th level wizard,Bluff, Disguise, and Hide are class skills, +2 morale bonus on all saves vs enchantment spells or effects.

Spell-Like Abilities: 
At will: Change Self,Invisibility,Nondetection,Confusion,False Vision,Mislead,Screen,Polymorph any Object, Time Stop,Nystul's Undetectable Aura,Identify,Dispel Magic,Imbue with Spell Ability,Spell Resistance,Antimagic Field, Spell Turning, Protection from Spells, Mordekainen's Disjunction,Remove Fear,Remove Paralysis,Remove Curse,Freedom of Movement,Break Enchantment,Greater Dispelling,Refuge,Mind Blank,Unbinding all as a 13th level sorceror. (Save DC 34 + Spell Level)

Also 
At will—alter self, color spray, comprehend languages, chain lightning, cure light wounds, dancing lights, daylight, detect evil, detect thoughts, dispel magic, hold monster, mass charm, persistent image, polymorph any object, prismatic spray, telekinesis, teleport without error, wall of force; 1/day—meteor swarm, power word: kill, time stop; 1/year—grant another’s wish. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 15th-level sorcerer (save DC 31 + spell level).

Cleric Spells/Day (0-22) 6/11+1/11+1/10+1/10+1/10+1/9+1/8+1/8+1/8+1/5/4/4/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/2/2 as a 21st level cleric. (Save DC 32+ Spell Level)
1-9 Cast spontaneously 
10th Quickened Harm, Empowered*2 Blade Barrier,2x Quickened Heal, Quickened Banishment
11th Empowered*3 Flamestrike, Quickened Empowered Flamestrike,Quickened Holy Word, Quickened Word of Chaos 
12th Quickened Antimagic Field,Quickened Empowered Undeath to Death, Quickened Storm Rage, Empowered*2 Firestorm
13th  Quickened Storm of Vengeance, Quickened Gate*2, Empowered*2 Storm of Vengeance
14th   Quickened Empowered Stormrage, Empowered*3 Storm Range, Quickened Empowered Earthquake, Empowered*3 Earthquake 
15th Quickened Empowered Storm of Vengeance, 2xQuickened Empowered Energy Drain
16th   Quickened Empowered*2 Firestorm, Empowered*4 Firestorm, Empowered*6 Poison      
17th  2xQuickened Empowered*2 Energy Drain, Empowered*4 Energy Drain
18th  Quickened Empowered*3 Stormrage, Empowered*5 Firestorm, Empowered*7 Poison
19th    Quickened Empowered*3 Energy Drain, Empowered*5 Energy Drain
20th Quickened Empowered*4 Firestorm, Empowered*6 Stormrage, 
21st    Quickened Empowered*4 Energy Drain, Empowered*6 Energy Drain     
22nd Quickened Empowered*5 Stormrage, Empowered*7 Firestorm 

Domain Spells (Air, Animal, Chaos, Good,Mysticism Plant, and Protection)
1 Sanctuary
2 Shield Other
3 Protection from Elements
4 Holy Smite
5 Dispel Evil
6 Repel Wood
7 Holy Word
8 Holy Aura
9 Elemetal Swarm (Air spell only)

Other Divine Powers
As a demigod Luithi treats a 1 on an attack roll or saving throw normally and not as an automatic failure. He is immortal.

Senses: Luithi can see, hear,touch and smell at a distance of 3 mile. As a standard action he can percieve anything within 3 miles of his worshippers,holy sites,objects, or any location where one of his titles or names was spoken in the last hour. He can extend his senses to up to two locations at once. He can block the sensing power of dieties of his rank or lower at up to two remote locations at once for 3 hours.

Portfolio Sense: Luithi is aware of any effort for freedom that involves at least 1000 people or any danger to the wellfare of the Eladrin race.

Automatic Actions: Luithi can use any Eladrin racial skill as a free action if the DC is 15 or lower. To use the skill as a free action Luithi must have ranks in the skill or the skill must be useable untrained. Luithi cannot do anything as a free action if the task would be a move action or part of a move action. Luithi can likewise perform any task that can be accomplished with a simple Charisma or Dexterity check as a free action. He can perform up to 2 such free actions a round.

Create Magic Items: Luithi can create any simple or martial weapon or any item that protects the wearer from mind altering effects (eg Ring of Mindshielding), increases movement (eg Boots of Speed) or eases travel (eg Bag of Holding) as long as the item's market value does not exceed 4,500 gp.

Non-Divine Powers
Enhanced Statistics-Luithi has used alter reality to give himself a +5 Inherent Bonus to all statistics.

Haste (Su) Luithi is permanently under the effects of a haste spell as cast by a 22nd level sorcerer. If Dispelled Luithi needs to use Alter Reality to produce a Haste effect and render it permanent again, requiring 220 minutes rest.

Domain Powers:  Animal Friendship 1/day, Turn/Rebuke Earth/Air Subtypes (22nd level cleric) 24/day, Protective Ward (1/day, +21 Resistance Bonus),Rebuke Plants (22nd level cleric) 24/day
Turn Undead (Su): As a 1st level Cleric 24/day  

Tulani Abilities

The tulani have no need for weapons and armor; their unearthly forms naturally resist damage, and at will (as a free action) they can create a swordlike blade of fiery light in their fist.

Fly (Su): A tulani in humanoid form can fly unaided as a free action.

Gaze (Su): In humanoid form—slay evil creatures of fewer than 8 HD, range 80 ft., Will negates DC 39, but even if successful the creature is blinded and stricken with fear for 2d10 rounds. If the opponent is of any nonevil alignment or is evil and of 8 HD or more, then it suffers blindness and fear only if it fails to save.

Positive Energy (Ex): The tulani’s blade of light deals an additional 2d8 points of positive energy damage to evil creatures.

Celestial Qualities: Protective aura (double strength magic circle against evil and magic circle against law in a 20’ radius and only one or the other functions against any particular enemy, minor globe of invulnerability, protection from arrows, any evil creature must make a Will save DC 39 to be able to approach within 20 ft. of a tulani), electricity and petrification immunity, tongues (always active), +4 save against poison.

Alternate Forms (Su): A tulani can assume the secondary form of any other eladrin as a free action, or assume its humanoid form from any alternate form as a standard action. The tulani keeps its AC and base attack bonus (+16) but causes double the damage of a bralani, noviere, or firre eladrin’s alternate form. In the ghaele’s form, its light-beams strike for 3d12 points of damage each and never miss. A tulani can use its spell-like abilities and spells in any form it chooses to assume, and of course its celestial qualities are always functional.
A tulani remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a tulani always reverts back to its primary, humanoid form if killed. A true seeing spell reveals the tulani’s humanoid form.

Spells: Tulani can cast divine spells from the cleric list and the Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, Plant, and Protection domains as 16th-level clerics. (In Divine Abilities)


Alternate Forms:

Bralani form (whirlwind/snowstorm)
Speed: fly 200 ft. (perfect)
Attacks: 2 sand- or snow-blasts +36 ranged touch
Damage: sand/snow blasts 2d10 

Blast Attack (Ex): A tulani in whirlwind form can attack with two scourging sand- or snow-blasts for 2d10 points of damage each, inflicted upon any caught within the area of effect. The blasts are 20-foot long cones.
Alternate Form (Su): Any creature within 20 feet of the tulani in whirlwind form suffers -2 to attacks due to stinging sand in its eyes, Will negates DC 18. Any medium-size or smaller creature within 5 feet of a bralani in its whirlwind form is swept off its feet by the raging winds and thrown 10 to 30 feet, Ref negates DC 31.

Coure  (Globe of Light)
Speed: Fly 200 ft. (perfect)

Firre (greater) (Pillar of Fire)
Speed: fly 200 ft. (perfect)
Attacks: burning rays +36/+36 ranged touch
Damage: burning rays 6d6/6d6
Fire Ray (Ex): A firre in pillar form can lash out with flame rays to a range of 200 feet.

Ghaele (greater) (Globe of Light)
Speed: fly 200ft. (perfect)
Attacks: 2 light rays ranged touch (auto hit)
Damage: light ray 3d12
Light Ray (Ex): A ghaele in globe form can project light rays with a range of 300 feet.

Noviere (Lesser) (Dolphin)
Speed: Swim 60 ft.
Attacks: Dolphin strike +34  (at least, see below)
Damage: ram 4d8+14 plus possible envelopment
If the noviere's opponent is not accustomed to underwater combat, the ram attack will likely gain substantial bonuses to hit.
 Envelopment (Ex): On a natural attack roll of 19 or 20 with her ram attack, a noviere can envelope their foes in the watery mass of their own bodies. To break free an enemy must make a strength check DC 20 or find a way to drive the noviere away with magic. Neither the held opponent nor the noviere can make any attacks while the opponent is held. If the noviere was engaged in mortal combat with her enemy and envelopes it, she will often simply hold the opponent underwater until it drowns.

Shiere (Ball of Light)
Speed: Fly 200 ft. (perfect)

Epic Spells Per Day: 4
Prepared: -
Known: -


Possesions: (34.2 Million)

 Luithi's Travelling Pack (61,000 gp)


Luithi's Travelling Pack

A backpack of this sort appears to be well made, well used, and quite ordinary. It is constructed of finely tanned leather, and the straps have brass hardware and buckles. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a bag of holding and can actually hold material equal to as much as 150 cu. ft cubic feet in volume or 1,000 lb pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 250 cu. ft cubic feet or 1,500 lb. pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds.

While such storage is useful enough, the pack has an even greater power in addition. When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what a haversack contains. Retrieving any specific item from a travelling pack is a free action. Luithi's Travelling Pack and whatever it contains gain a +5 resistance bonus to all saving throws.

Caster Level: 9th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Leo_mund’s secret chest; Market Price: 61,000 gp; Weight: 5 lb.





Epic Leadership (Leadership Score (48/48/49)
Cohort (29th level)

(To Do: Lots)


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 22, 2002)

> And TFO... there will be NO +7 ECL PARAGON. None... none none none.




Look at what I post. I said some Pieces like the +10 to all saves and the +12 hp per HD for + 7 ECL that kinda thing, not the whole template =]


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## Creamsteak (Sep 22, 2002)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Look at what I post. I said some Pieces like the +10 to all saves
> and the +12 hp per HD for + 7 ECL that kinda thing, not the
> whole template =] *




I hate to taunt but,

None None None None None None None None None None.
I completely understand what you are saying, and I say,
None None None None None None None None NOne None.

It's a dumb request, that will do nobody any good.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 22, 2002)

Howling Coyote said:
			
		

> *Insane is not the word I would use. This is pure madness, but I like it. I just wonder how someone can run a game with that power level, I certainly could not do it.
> 
> So do I use the EHL +12 ECL for a demilich, or the +6 that can be derived from the attributes?
> 
> ...




Yes, use the +12 ECL for demilich, it seems to be more correct than the +10 it is by my count. The Ability score derived ECL really only works with the most basic templates, Half Dragon, Half Celestial, and Half fiend.

And please do use the SHBGB. The other two books are partials. I only want you pulling elements you really want from there. I don't want it to just be a world we create where we have all types of energies (books) intertwined without order. Take the good, leave the bad, and there ya have...


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## Zack2216 (Sep 22, 2002)

well, now to play a 32nd paragon monk druid... You know, this is going to be a very interesting game.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 22, 2002)

*A level 50 Paladin... needs work...*

*Solumice Construprare*
*Human Paladin 44/Divine Emissary 6* _1,225,000 xp_
*Hit Dice:* 44d10+220 Paladin, 6d10+30 Divine Emissary (505 hp)
*Initiative:* +5 (+5 Dex)
*Speed:* 30 ft.
*AC:* 25 (+5 Dex, +6 Armor, +4 Shield)
*Attacks:* +20 Favored Weapon +81/+76/+71/+66 melee; Smite Evil +100 melee; or Mighty [60 Str] Composite Longbow +42/+37/+32/+27
*Damage:* +20 Favored Weapon 1d8+45; Smite Evil 1d8+1045; Composite Longbow 1d8+27
*Face/Reach:* 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Detect evil at will, divine inspiration 2/day, granted domain, greater planar ally 1/day, lay on hands 836 hp/day, paladin spells, remove disease 14/day, smite evil 3/day, turn undead
*Special Qualitites:* Associates, aura of courage, code of conduct, divine grace, divine health, special mount
*Saves:* Fort +79, Ref +73, Will +73
*Abilities:* Str 32 (60), Dex 20, Con 20, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 20 (48)
*Skills:* 
*Feats:* Cleave, Dodge, Expertise, Great Cleave, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Favored Weapon)
*Epic Feats:* Great Smiting (x19)

+20 Favored Weapon (8,000,000)
Cloak of Epic Charisma +28 (7,840,000)
Ring of Epic Resistance +28 (7,840,000)
Guantlets of Epic Strength +28 (7,840,000)
Ring of Universal Elemental Resistance, Major (216,000)
Tome (137,500)
Tome (137,500)
Tome (137,500)
Tome (137,500)
Tome (137,500)
Tome (137,500)
Scabberd of Keen Edges (15,000)
+2 Arrows (50) (8,350)
+2 Mithral Shirt (5,100)
+2 Mithral Shield (5,020)
Mighty Composite (+25 Str bonus) (2,900)

Spare Cash 2,630

_Detect Evil:_ PBH 42
*Divine Grace:* PHB 42
_Lay on Hands:_ PHB 42
*Divine Health:* PHB 42
*Aura of Courage:* PHB 42
*Smite Evil:* PHB 42
_Remove disease:_ PHB 42
*Turn Undead:* As a 42nd levle Cleric, PHB 139
*Spells:* Spells per day: 5+1/4+1/4+1/4+1, 25th Caster Level, PHB 167
*Special Mount:* PHB 43 

*Paladin Light Warhorse*
*Hit Dice:* 3d10+18 (magical beast) + 18d8+108 (bonus) (159 hp)
*Initiative:* +1 (Dex)
*Speed:* 60 ft.
*AC:* 34 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +24 natural)
*Attacks:* 2 hooves +20 melee; bite +15 melee
*Damage:* Hoof 1d4+7; bite 1d3+3
*Face/reach:* 5 ft. by 10 ft./5 ft.
*Special Qualities:* Command warhorses, empathic link, improved evasion, saving throws, share spells, spell resistance 55
*Saves:* Fort +17, Ref +15, Will +8 
*Abilities:* Str 25, Dex 13, Con 22, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 6
*Skills:* Listen +25, Spot +25

*Code of Conduct:* PHB 43
*Associates:* PHB 43
*Granted Domain:* ELH 28
_Divine Inspiration:_ ELH 28
_Greater Planar Ally:_ ELH 28
_Divine Hand:_ ELH 28


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## Creamsteak (Sep 23, 2002)

Does anyone need a Divine Emmisary? Why guess what, we have one, and he's ready to take YOUR FAVORED WEAPON, and ONE OF YOUR DOMAINS, as his own. If your impressed, then just send an introduction his way, and He'll hire on, for get this- FREE!

I have a Paladin/Divine Emmisary. His stats are above. He's my new character, and I like him a lot. I would prefer to work with a diety who is also a character. I gain one of your domains, and your favored weapon as my own. The introduction states that I need to impress you... are you impressed?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 23, 2002)

"I'm Impressed" says the DR 1 Paragon False Lover....


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 23, 2002)

We need to tone down the Pseudonatural (ELH version) template (assuming the ECL for it is +11, since the ELH book ECL - the troll ECL, 11 from the DMG erratta)

level 37 character with it has 10 tentacles, DR 60/+14, and *185* SR...


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## Creamsteak (Sep 23, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *We need to tone down the Pseudonatural (ELH version) template (assuming the ECL for it is +11, since the ELH book ECL - the troll ECL, 11 from the DMG erratta)
> 
> level 37 character with it has 10 tentacles, DR 60/+14, and 185 SR... *




I say pitch it. It's too screwed up anyway. If you want something "like" it, with tentacles basically... you could pick a base race from CoC I think. There's no reason to let it exist with it's broken-parts.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 23, 2002)

Oh, and the limit on single item value should be 25% of wealth. I'll go with that since it's noted in the ELH, and it's pretty close to reasonable.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 23, 2002)

Rough draft, constantly updating

The Countess
Demigod
Symbol: A hollowed out cross (often used to store a tiny dagger or poison)
Home Plane: (still deciding)
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Portfolio: Betrayal, Deceit, Manipulation
Worshippers: Nobles, manipulators, those wishing to gain power by coercian/betrayal
Cleric Alignments: Lawful Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil
Domains: Mentalism, Planning, Tyranny
Favored Weapon: Web of Lies (Shield)

Original name before becoming a False Lover: Kathryn Merteuil 
Paragon False Lover with Divine Rank of 1 (ECL 48, 2 more levels to decide upon), considering 1 or 2 of those levels to be Contemplative (Mysticism domain)

Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Reality, Possess Mortal

*Charisma:*
Base 18
Race+Template=44
Wish+Tome of Leadership +5=54
Divine Bonus=125
Aging (+3 int/wis/cha)=128

*Total Charisma: 128*
(Not including an enhancement bonus, like say a Cloak of Charisma +28 or so)

-Need to read up on D&Dg to get things right, not sure how many portfolios one can have.


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## Zack2216 (Sep 23, 2002)

New seed
Seed: Empower
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 14
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 minute
range: touch
target: creature or weapon touched
Duration:20 minutes
Saving throw: will negates
Spell Resistance: yes

you can enchant a natural or artificial weapon (or weapons in the case of natural) with magical energy, giving it a +1 enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls. This allows you to penetrate +1 or weaker damage reduction. Alternatively, you can affect up to fifty bullets, arrows, or bolts. If you are a good aligned divine caster, the weapon is considered blessed.
You can increase the enhancement bonus by +1 by adding +1 to the spellcraft DC. Once the enhancement bonus reaches +5, you must add +3 to the Spellcraft DC for each additional +1 to the enhancement bonus (ie. a +10 enhancement bonus would have a DC of 34)

Gaea's Energy Claws
Transmutation, Evocation (Acid, Fire, Electricity, Cold, or Sonic)
Spellcraft DC:35
Components: V,S
Casting time: 100 days, 11 minutes
range: touch
target: weapon or living creature touched
Duration: Permenant
Saving throw: will, harmless
Spell resistance: yes
To develope:315,000 gp,12,600 xp,7 days
Seed: Empower (DC 14), Energy (19) Factors: +14 to enhancement bonus (total +15) (+32), +3d6 energy (total +5d6) (+6), x5 permanent. Increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20); Burn 10,000 exp. (-100); increase casting time by 100 days (-200)

This spell allows the caster to enchant a weapon or natural weapon permenantly (in the case of a natural weapon, it can be dispelled and resumed by the enchanted at will. Also, If the caster is to assume a different form (polymorph, shapechange, or wildshape) this spell stays in effect, and the enchanted can choose what natural weapon (or weapons) is/are effected. 

The enchanted weapon has a +15 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, and adds +5d6 energy damage of the chosen single element (chosen apon casting) to damage. This extra energy damage isn't increased during a crit(I think...). 

Note, natural weapons enchanted and used in this way harm the enchanted by the listed elemental damage if they aren't protected from it.

I used the energy aura option from the enrgy seed to add elemental damage to the weapons damage. I was wondering, should there be some ad hoc in there? just curious. I thought that if it is a natural weapon and you get harmed by the spell for using it, then it would make up for the possible ad hoc, even though high level casters can easily protect against its affects. But it's too bad that druid minions don't get this benifit.

When I had cast it, I cast it on myself and chose sonic damage.

*Storm Crow* 
Paragon level 1 monk/30 druid
Hit dice 1d8+30d8+372+620 (1240)
Initiative +13 (dex)
Speed 180'
AC 116 (22 e.b.++26 wis+ 13 dex+5 nat+12 insight+12 luck+ 16 r.o.p.)
Attacks: unarmed strike +75/+70/+65
damage: 6d6 (1d6 bludg.+5d6 sonic)+50
Face/reach: 5'by5'/5'
speacial attacks:-
Speacial qualities: blindsight 120', control weather (3 mile radius), unarmed strike, evasion, haste 3/day, greater dispelling 3/day, see invisibility 3/day
Saves: fort +48, ref +36, Will +54
abilities: str 40, dex 36, con 50, wis 62, int 43, cha 41

Ability score breakdown:
Strength- 8 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, + 12 amulet of relentless might
Dexterity- 8 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +8 circlet of ages
Constition- 18 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +12 amulet of relentless might
Wisdom-18 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +16 circlet of ages, +1 age, +7 level
Intelligence- 16 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +6 circlet of ages, 
+1 age
Charisma-14 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +1 age, +6 circlet of ages

skills:
Monk, 4 ranks each(this isn't included in the calculations below)
dex-balance-+13(human)+20(boots)
str-climb-+15(human)+20(boots)
con-concentration-+20(human)+10(paragon)
int-craft(woodworking)-+16+10(paragon)
cha-diplomacy-+15+10(paragon)
dex-escape artist-+13+10
dex-hide-+13+40
str-jump-+15+10
int-knowledge(arcane)-+16+10
wis-listen-+26+10
dex-move silently+13+40
cha-perform-+15+10
wis-proffession(herbalism)-+26+10
str-swim-+15-+10
dex-tumble-+13+10

Druid, 33 ranks each(this isn't included in the calculations below)
cha-animal empathy-+16+10
con-concentration-+20+10
int-craft(woodworking)-+16+10
cha-diplomacy-+15+10
cha-handle animal-+15+10
wis-heal-+26+10
wis-intuit direction-+26+10
int-knowledge(nature)-+16+10
wis-proffesion(herbalism)-+26+10
int-scry-+16+10
int-spellcraft-+16+10

Cross Class-17 ranks each (not calculated in there)
dex-ride(horse)-+13+10
cha-gather information-+15+10
dex-disguise-+13+10
dex-tumble-+13+10
dex-hide-+13+10
str-jump-+15+10
wis-spot-+26+10(only 10.5 ranks)

Feats
extend spell, fast healing, empower spell, natural spell, snatch, blindsight (120'), extra wildshape, permanent emanation (control weather), gargantuan wildshape, colossal wildshape, vermin wildshape, improved elemental wildshape, beast wildshape, epic spellcasting, combat casting, improved combat casting

Spells:
0-6;1-12;2-12;3-11;4-11;5-11;6-10;7-9;8-9;9-9

Stuff!(equipment listing & price)
Circlet of ages ( jade circlet) 5,096,000
+16 wis, +8 dex, +6 int, +6 cha (wilding clasp attached)
Nature's Fury (staff) 500000
Epic bracers of armor +22 4,840,000
(note: I have a wilding clasp on each bracer so that I gain the armor bonus in wildshape)
Amulet of relentless might 4384,000 (wilding clasp attached)
+12 str, +12 con
Ring of Protection +16 5,120,000 (wilding clasp attached)
Ring of Universal elemental immunity 2,160,000 (wilding clasp attached)
8 wilding clasps 32 k (4 k each)
Boots of swiftness 256,000 (wilding clasp attached x2)
Mantle of great stealth 242,000(wilding clasp attached)
Bag of holding type 4 10,000
holds:
nature's fury (already accounted for)
staff of life x2 260,000 (130,000 each)
Staff of the Hierophants 501,187
cabinet of feasting 288,000
63 scrolls (8 spells each) of maximized, empowered, admixtured(sonic), daylong(or whatever it's called that makes the spell last all day), greater call lightning(450 damage, save dc 27)

My home: a druid grove. I live in a very large woodshaped tree that acomodates many (at most me and 10 guests). The outlying area is densely wooded with trees as large as mine (to hide mine). In my 'back yard' I have a standing stone circle, with a natural spring in the center( not very deep). In the spring, a stone pedastal stands (which is where I make my offerings to use the standing stones). Surrounding My Home, I always have 4-9 shambling mounds on guard (which last 14 months instead of 7) 
Standing stones:
shambler(57,750), heal(42,350), Greater scrying (42,350), transport via plants(33,600), control weather (42,350), true reincarnate(57,750)
The sacrifice for the standing stones(all of them) is the burning of several berries, that can be found in bushes in the surrounding wood.

My last 1,285,853 gp horde is inside my home.

Favored forms for combat
Advanced gold dragon
77d12; 170 AC (-8 size, +26 wis, +22 bracers, +16 ring of prot., +4 dex, +12 luck, +12 insight)
48d10 cone of fire(or  cone of weakening gas, 24 str damage)(80 ft.). ref DC 77; Fear DC63; 71 spell resistance; 55/+10 DR
120' land, 600' fly, 120' swim; 84 stength, 18 dex, 69 con
Fire subtype, water breathing, immune to sleep and paralysis
720' blinsight, 2,400' darkvision
Attack: +89 bite, +88 claw x2, +87 wing x2, +87 tail
Damage: 13d6+72 bite, 4d8 +5d6+53 claw, 9d6+53 wing, 4d8+5d6+90 tail
Feats: alertness, cleave, improved init, power attack, weapon focus(claw), flyby attack, hover, snatch(24d6 throw), wingover, improved flight, multiattack, improved spell capacity x7, great strength, improved spell resistance x7

It's late, so I will post the other 3 dragons later...


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## Kalanyr (Sep 23, 2002)

This is where I feel compelled to point out something that I really shouldn't have too. No Diety in D&Dg put all their divine points in 1 stat, so nor should a PC. I recommend limiting it to at most +18 Bonus from those at DR 1 to any one stat.


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## Macbrea (Sep 23, 2002)

hmmm, ECL 50... I will work on a character this evening. Probably not going to play the death slaad of doom.....


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 23, 2002)

paragorn stirges, LOTS of paragorn stirges

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


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## GoldenEagle (Sep 23, 2002)

I have never played by message board or at the Epic Level. I would love to give it a shot.  I would like to play a Paragon Doppleganger Cleric of boccob.  The concept is a sneaky cleric who polices magic for boccob.  he would have a Guardian Paramount (sp) cohort and his followers would be a network of people throughout the world keeping him connected and letting him know when magic was being abused.  I think he would do well in any adventuring party that was not evil.  

I could see this person adventuring to find lost items (with agent retreivers) or fighting against wizards trying to taint magic itself or helping to overthrow empires who misuse their powers.

any input on how message board games work (mechanics,etc ) or anything else?  this looks like fun!

John


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## Dalamar (Sep 23, 2002)

*Creamsteak!*

Now, with your attention, how do we handle Int increases from magic items?
Level rise points are easy, but at what level do magic items kick in? Do we just count as if the character's Int had been that high from the start for ease of math?


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 23, 2002)

Creamsteak

Could you update the character creation guidlines on the first page?

Did I read correctly that we are running 50th level characters?!


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## Creamsteak (Sep 24, 2002)

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Creamsteak
> 
> Could you update the character creation guidlines on the first page?
> 
> Did I read correctly that we are running 50th level characters?! *




I'll just start a new thread. Basically all the work put into this one was trashed when people decided that they "had" to play things that were beyond the original scale of the game.

And as for intelligence and skills...

I'm thinking this: The Items DO NOT COUNT. Tomes do, because it's a permanent enhancement, so would wishes. The enhancements for levels kick in as they come, and the enhancement bonuses kick in after level 20 (so the first time they count is level 21).

So you do skills based on your 1st-20th level progression. Then you do skills with your +5 to all enhancements you probably took in intelligence, for levels 21 up.

Templates kick in at level 1, unless it's a lich type template that requires you to have a certain amount of experience. Godly stat bonuses kick in at level 1 as well, if your a born demigod. If your not a born demigod, then you earned your divine ranks last (probably) so you won't be getting bonuses till your next level.


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