# EN World Book Club



## Sam (Aug 6, 2003)

OK. So, Oprah has one, the Today Show has one, Rosie  had one. Throwing this out for dicussion. Should we start an EN World Book Club? You know, where a group of people agree to read a book by a certain date, and then you spend some time discussing it.

Proposal: Start an EN World Book Club
Details: Using method to be determined, select one book every X weeks for reading by certain date. Once date arrives, begin discussion of book for specified period. Listing of books to be discussed should always go out 2-3 books in advance, so people have an opportunity to borrow books from library/friends, or purchase from bookstore.

Suggest that books selected be a combination of new publications and classic works.

Anyone have any interest in something like this? Any other ideas?

*EDIT: There is now a [EN World Book Club] Suggestions & Selectors thread, where everyone has been volunteering & suggesting books. Please see that thread for more info on the book club.*


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## Crothian (Aug 6, 2003)

Sounds fine, but how the heck does one decide on which book to start with?  I imagine we'd have more suggestions then people interested.


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## AuroraGyps (Aug 6, 2003)

I've actually had the same thought once or twice, so I'm in.


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## Sam (Aug 6, 2003)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *Sounds fine, but how the heck does one decide on which book to start with?  I imagine we'd have more suggestions then people interested. *




How 'bout an "editorial board" of 4-6 members that select the books?  The board will be a rotating position, so that every [2]? books a person leaves and a new person is "appointed" to the board.

This still leaves the "how do people get appointed to the editorial board" question.  I suppose we can figure that out if there's enough interest in the idea.  If there is interest, then we can worry about it, or even just pick the first six people who express interest in being on the board.  Now, obviously, if someone's going to be selecting/recommending books, they should have read them already.  Also, for the "classics", perhaps we can do some open voting, listing 10-15 books that have been out for some time and the ones with the most votes is selected.

Just some real off-the-cuff ideas.


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## Merova (Aug 6, 2003)

*Voting is Good*



			
				Sam said:
			
		

> *Now, obviously, if someone's going to be selecting/recommending books, they should have read them already.  Also, for the "classics", perhaps we can do some open voting, listing 10-15 books that have been out for some time and the ones with the most votes is selected.*




Hi all!

The book club is a sweet idea. I think the voting idea is a good one. However, the restriction on having read a work before recommendation will almost certainly skew the reading selection towards the "classics" rather then the new releases. There's nothing wrong with this, but I get a thrill out of reading new stuff. I think that a good review in _Locus_ or some other respectable review site should be sufficient to qualify a book for the list. 

Another thought on selection could be "award" based. For instance, in a few months the World Fantasy Awards will be announced; it would be kind of interesting to check out a few of the nominees before then.

In any case, I'm interested in joining the book club. 

Thanks for reading.

---Merova


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## Sam (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Voting is Good*



			
				Merova said:
			
		

> *
> There's nothing wrong with this, but I get a thrill out of reading new stuff. I think that a good review in Locus or some other respectable review site should be sufficient to qualify a book for the list.
> 
> Another thought on selection could be "award" based. For instance, in a few months the World Fantasy Awards will be announced; it would be kind of interesting to check out a few of the nominees before then.
> *




Both great ideas.  I like the award based concept alot.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Aug 6, 2003)

Count me in. I thought about suggesting something like this a few months ago, but never did. 

I like the idea of using award nominees (World Fantasy, World Horror, or Hugo nominees), but I also like to read classic works. Maybe it could alternate, one month a new award nominated book, the next a classic book? I'd also like to suggest that books not be part of a long series, unless the books can truly "stand alone." 

_Locus_ magazine has a great resource, the Locus Index to Science Fiction Awards for finding award winning books from past years, perhaps this could be a place to choose books to read?


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## Sam (Aug 6, 2003)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> *I like the idea of using award nominees (World Fantasy, World Horror, or Hugo nominees), but I also like to read classic works. Maybe it could alternate, one month a new award nominated book, the next a classic book? I'd also like to suggest that books not be part of a long series, unless the books can truly "stand alone." *



That's in line with what I was thinking.  I agree that we shouldn't be looking at "Wheel of Time" type series, though some shorter series might make sense.  These are all things we can talk about.

The Locus Award site is a great link.  Thanks.  

So, there's at least some interest for this idea.  Why don't we keep generating some ideas and select a book by, say, August 16th for September discussion.  Is that too agressive a timeline?

BTW, I knew we'd attract some of the "Librarians" to this concept.  Now we just need EN & Buttercup.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Aug 6, 2003)

Sam said:
			
		

> *
> That's in line with what I was thinking.  I agree that we shouldn't be looking at "Wheel of Time" type series, though some shorter series might make sense.  These are all things we can talk about.
> *




When you say shorter series, are youy thinking of reading them all at once or over several months? I could see reading Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea trilogy over a month, but couldn't see reading anything much longer in a month. 



			
				Sam said:
			
		

> *
> So, there's at least some interest for this idea.  Why don't we keep generating some ideas and select a book by, say, August 16th for September discussion.  Is that too agressive a timeline?
> *




I think we should allow for at least 1 month from when a book is posted to read before the discussion really starts. Thats not to say we can't have minor questions before the discussion start date. So if we pick a book by Aug 16, we would start the discussion on Sept 15. Does that work?


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## KnowTheToe (Aug 6, 2003)

Count me in as long as it doesn't get too touchy feely, but I am not too worried about that.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Aug 6, 2003)

Just another book idea, what about some of the books that influenced the creation of D&D? I'mm thinking of maybe the first Elric novel (Michael Moorcock), Three Hearts and Three Lions (Poul Anderson), one of the Dying Earth novels (Jack Vance), etc. Somewhere, I've got a list of books that Gary Gygax has pointed to as being sources for the game.


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## kingpaul (Aug 6, 2003)

Hmmm...an ENWorld Book Club.  That sounds quite fun.

*subscribe to thread*


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## FraserRonald (Aug 6, 2003)

Count me in for the book club.

Since we're doing the cycling between awards and classics, what about 1 month, "award book", next month "classic" and then "D&D influence book", based on the ones listed in the 1E AD&D DMG (or elsewhere . . . was there a list in the 'Basic' books?).

As for an editorial board, what about if we just allow one person to choose? Get a list of those interested and do it alphabetically by last name. Everyone gets a chance and we don't need to worry about discussion (there's something to be said for benign dictatorships).

In any case, however it works, I'm in.
_Edit: for really, really bad spelling mistakes._


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## KnowTheToe (Aug 6, 2003)

I think putting together a list of people who want to participate and having people who want to choose the books go individually by last name would work great.

Not everyone will want to choose a book, I know I don't.  To give people an idea of what people would like to read, we could start a thread where suggestions are kept and who ever wants to run it can update the top post with a current list of suggestions.  We also have to be comfortable that not everyone is going to want to read the same book and there may be months that have low participation.

Lets try to start the first book by the 15th.


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## Sam (Aug 6, 2003)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> *I think putting together a list of people who want to participate and having people who want to choose the books go individually by last name would work great.
> *




That sounds good to me.  I'll volunteer to keep the "list" of people who want to be on the selection list.  Once I get a handful of names, I'll randomly select someone and they can choose the book for that month.

August 15th sounds good for this. 

So, if you have any interest in being involved with the selection process, post so here!


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## Umbran (Aug 6, 2003)

One suggestion that sounds so simple as nobody would think about it until it came up:

Require that all selected books be currently in print.  There's a lot of good fiction out there folks would like to suggest tht would be difficult to get hands on quickly.


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## myrdden (Aug 6, 2003)

I'd be interested in this.

Myrdden


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## Sam (Aug 6, 2003)

Umbran said:
			
		

> *Require that all selected books be currently in print.  There's a lot of good fiction out there folks would like to suggest tht would be difficult to get hands on quickly. *




Good idea.  A simple check would be to see if it is available from Amazon (and shipping).  If not, then it's not eligible.

Also, been thinking about having one person select the book to be read.  Don't have any problem with that, but I do like the "rotating book type" concept.  Not sure how you ensure that happens if there is one person each month selecting a book, other than telling that person they have to select a "New" or a "Classic" or a "D&D influence" book, which limits their choosing ability.


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## FraserRonald (Aug 6, 2003)

Sam said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Good idea.  A simple check would be to see if it is available from Amazon (and shipping).  If not, then it's not eligible.
> 
> Also, been thinking about having one person select the book to be read.  Don't have any problem with that, but I do like the "rotating book type" concept.  Not sure how you ensure that happens if there is one person each month selecting a book, other than telling that person they have to select a "New" or a "Classic" or a "D&D influence" book, which limits their choosing ability. *




Good call on the in print thing. Didn't even think of it!

As for book choosing, if we do it alphabetically, I guess a person could defer choosing if they really wanted to deal with a classic. Would this cause too many problems? Is there a way that each of us suggests one book from each category and then they are randomly drawn? I'll trust someone with a hat and a bunch of numbers of whatever.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Aug 6, 2003)

I'd like to be in on the selection process, so put my name on that list. 

Also, as far as the type of books go, I don't think we need to keep them in a specific rotating order (1. New  2. Award Winner  3. Classic  4. D&D influence). Some of these catagories are going to overlap anyway (classic/D&D influence or classic/award winner in particular). As long as we don't end up choosing 2 very similar books in a row, I don't see any problems with allowing the person who gets to choose have a more open selection criteria. 

Also, are we sticking to just fantasy, or are we also going to include SF/horror/borderline books as well? I don't have a problem with any of them, and having the options open may make it more interesting. But, thats just my opinion.


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## nHammer (Aug 6, 2003)

I'll give it a try. 

I hope a wide range of genre is allowed. 

For now I don't want to be involved with book selection.


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## FraserRonald (Aug 7, 2003)

Oh, and just for the record, I'm in. I also want a hand at choosing the books. I would personally like to choose all the books and force you all to read every good book in my library, but I will settle for taking my turn whenever that turn pops up.

BTW, what's everyone's thoughts about having some kind of transcript or group consensus posted in my e-zine, _Sword's Edge_?


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## Sam (Aug 7, 2003)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> *Also, are we sticking to just fantasy, or are we also going to include SF/horror/borderline books as well? I don't have a problem with any of them, and having the options open may make it more interesting. But, thats just my opinion.  *




I don't think we should really limit the genre much at all.   The intent is to expose people to good reads and then get some further intellectual stimulation from discussion of said read.  As long as the book is good (and somewhat thought provoking) what difference does it make if it is hard SF or "classic" fantasy, or some lovecraftian/Steven King type horror/thriller.   I suppose others may think differently, and some of that will be borne out in the selection process as well as the participation level by group members.  We shall see.  I propose that we leave it somewhat open for selection, especially if we're going to go with the "one-person" selection committee as presently outlined.


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## Heretic Apostate (Aug 7, 2003)

As a suggestion, how about starting a non-RPG "Share the Love" circle at Amazon?

Basically, if someone decides to buy the book for the discussion group, they post a thread to that purpose, people send emails asking to be included in the list, and so on.  The people who end up buying the books will get a 10% discount (which, apparently, sticks around; at least, I'm STILL getting a 10% discount from when I bought the 3.5 rulebooks...).  The person starting the list gets some bonus per person who actually buys (but, since this is in the books/movie forum, it won't be as big an audience).

And so on.

Anyway, just a suggestion.


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## Sam (Aug 7, 2003)

I've started a thread for the posting of suggested books and people who want to act as (what I'm calling for the moment) "editorial members".

You can find it here:
[Book Club] Suggestions & Selectors


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## Kweesenart (Aug 8, 2003)

Sounds great! You can definitely count me in!

I like the idea of rotating types of books. Classics, D&D influence (although the entire Lord of the Rings series might be a bit much in one shot), award winners, etc.


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## FraserRonald (Aug 8, 2003)

Kweesenart said:
			
		

> *Sounds great! You can definitely count me in!
> 
> I like the idea of rotating types of books. Classics, D&D influence (although the entire Lord of the Rings series might be a bit much in one shot), award winners, etc. *




Hey Kweesenart

You might want to go to the new thread:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59667 

Which is where Sam is keeping track of those interested in joining. There's also a list of the books recommeneded.

See you there!


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## Dire Wolf (Aug 8, 2003)

Count me in!  Sounds like a fantastic idea.  I like the idea of the rotation of book types and the editorial board making the selection.  Sounds great to me!


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## FraserRonald (Aug 8, 2003)

rjmc64 said:
			
		

> *Count me in!  Sounds like a fantastic idea.  I like the idea of the rotation of book types and the editorial board making the selection.  Sounds great to me! *




Er . . . um . . . check out the post right above yours . .  .


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## Greyhawk_DM (Aug 8, 2003)

Sam said:
			
		

> *Proposal: Start an EN World Book Club
> Details: Using method to be determined, select one book every X weeks for reading by certain date.  Once date arrives, begin discussion of book for specified period.  Listing of books to be discussed should always go out 2-3 books in advance, so people have an opportunity to borrow books from library/friends, or purchase from bookstore.
> 
> Suggest that books selected be a combination of new publications and classic works.
> ...




I'm in. Sounds very cool.


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## KingCroMag (Aug 9, 2003)

Something like this was done a while ago. Ceasar's Legion was read. It was read on a chapter to chapter basis. I think Shark may have been the originator.
-KCM


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## jester47 (Aug 9, 2003)

This is a great idea, count me in as a selector and a reader.

Aaron.


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## Celtavian (Aug 9, 2003)

*re*

I'd give it a shot as a reader. Might be fun to discuss fantasy books.


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## GreyShadow (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: re*



			
				Celtavian said:
			
		

> *I'd give it a shot as a reader. Might be fun to discuss fantasy books. *




Ditto for me.

The reading I shouldn't have a problem with.  I am not good when it comes to discussions thou. Oh well.  I have to start somewhere.


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## Zaukrie (Aug 13, 2003)

I'm in for being a reader.  What's the current status?


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## JoeBlank (Aug 13, 2003)

Zaukrie said:
			
		

> *I'm in for being a reader.  What's the current status? *




The status is we are very close to announcing the first selection.

See this thread for details.


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## Sam (Aug 14, 2003)

The first two editorial members have been announced.  See this thread: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1068768#post1068768 for full details.

jester47 is the first editorial member selected.  Discussion on his selection will open (hopefully) on September 15.

JoeBlank is the second editorial member.  He will post his selection on September 15, with discussion opening on November 1.

Thanks to everyone who has suggested books, volunteered as an editorial member, or has participated in the formative discussions.


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## Sam (Aug 17, 2003)

*jester47 has spoken!*

In the suggestions  & selectors thread, jester47 (this month's editorial member) has posted his selection.  You can read about his decision making process here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1074072#post1074072

jester47 chose Dragondoom, by Denis L. McKiernan.  ISBN: 0451458818

The reading period is now open.  We will begin discussion on September 15.  Also, JoeBlank will post his selection at that time.

On September 15, look for a new thread (opened by jester47) with the title "[ENWorld Book Club] September Selection - Dragondoom" _(or something similar)_.  jester47 will lead off the discussion, which should last about two weeks.


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## Umbran (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: jester47 has spoken!*



			
				Sam said:
			
		

> *On September 15, look for a new thread (opened by jester47) with the title "[ENWorld Book Club] September Selection - Dragondoom" (or something similar).  jester47 will lead off the discussion, which should last about two weeks. *




Sam, for the Book Club you might want to take a tidbit from the Hivemind - one thread at a time.  That way you won't have to chase around through all the possible Book Club threads to make sure that everyone will get the message.  If there's only one place to get Book Club news, then folks will find it.


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## Dacileva (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: jester47 has spoken!*



			
				Umbran said:
			
		

> *Sam, for the Book Club you might want to take a tidbit from the Hivemind - one thread at a time.  That way you won't have to chase around through all the possible Book Club threads to make sure that everyone will get the message.  If there's only one place to get Book Club news, then folks will find it. *




Alternatively, the thread could be linked to both here and on the Selections/Suggestions thread.  That way, we've got access to the new suggestion thread, while not making people who join in December, or so, sort through the discussion of the previous few books just to find the next selection.

I find subscribing to these threads is very convenient, myself.  

Just a thought.

_edited to add a line_


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## Umbran (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: jester47 has spoken!*



			
				Dacileva said:
			
		

> *Alternatively, the thread could be linked to both here and on the Selections/Suggestions thread.  *




That means that someone's gotta run around through all previous Book Club threads to put those links in.  That's exactly the hassle I was trying to avoid.  

If there's only one Book club thread active at a time, and previous ones are locked, then a new person needs only find the most recent Book Club thread to find whatever information they need, and the folks in charge only ever need to put new information in one thread.


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## Sam (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: jester47 has spoken!*



			
				Umbran said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Sam, for the Book Club you might want to take a tidbit from the Hivemind - one thread at a time.  That way you won't have to chase around through all the possible Book Club threads to make sure that everyone will get the message.  If there's only one place to get Book Club news, then folks will find it. *




I had thought of that.  I think we should keep somewhat separate threads though for this reason.  The Suggestions & Selectors threads is for book suggestions and people to sign up as an editorial member.  That thread should continue, through the various discussion threads that come and go.  I kind of view this thread as the "administration" thread, though suppose it can be merged with the suggestions & selectors.  

No real strong views either way on the issue though.

And I agree with Dacileva's point on subscribing to threads.  Makes it very easy to determine when something's been updated.


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## Dacileva (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: jester47 has spoken!*



			
				Umbran said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That means that someone's gotta run around through all previous Book Club threads to put those links in.  That's exactly the hassle I was trying to avoid.*




With links, though, and subscription, that's pretty easy.  And we don't need to add the links to *all* Book Club threads.  Just keep two active: the main one for general Book Club discussion, including the links to all specific threads, and the current discussion thread.  The previous discussion threads don't really need to be linked to the current discussion thread.


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## Sage (Sep 6, 2003)

I'm in for the books I have time to read  

Sage


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## Sam (Sep 13, 2003)

Getting close to beginning the conversation on the first selection, Dragondoom by Dennis L. McKiernan.  Jester47, when you're ready, could you start a new thread with a title along the lines of "[ENWorld Book Club - September] Dragondoom Discussion".  

I guess I have to finish the book this weekend (about 80 pages to go).


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## Dacileva (Sep 14, 2003)

Sam said:
			
		

> Jester47, when you're ready, could you start a new thread with a title along the lines of "[ENWorld Book Club - September] Dragondoom Discussion".




And please link it here and/or the suggestions/selectors thread, for those of us (like me) who don't use these forums for much of anything else?


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## nHammer (Sep 14, 2003)

Sam said:
			
		

> I guess I have to finish the book this weekend (about 80 pages to go).




I have to finish it this week end as well. I only have 400 pages to go.   Sadly I'm not joking. I'm SO behind. I was only just able to get the book.

I'm still going to participate in the discussion. I don't mind spoilers.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Sep 14, 2003)

nHammer said:
			
		

> I have to finish it this week end as well. I only have 400 pages to go.  Sadly I'm not joking. I'm SO behind. I was only just able to get the book.




Well, I've only got 300 pages to go, so your not alone. I haven't had much time to read this month. I'm trying to catch up, and will probably just join the discussion late, since I don't like book spoilers.


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## Dire Wolf (Sep 15, 2003)

Umm... what happened to the bookclub thread(s).  I thought today was supposed to start the discussion of the first book and I can not find a current thread.  HELP?!?!


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## Sam (Sep 16, 2003)

rjmc64 said:
			
		

> Umm... what happened to the bookclub thread(s). I thought today was supposed to start the discussion of the first book and I can not find a current thread. HELP?!?!



I was waiting for jester47 to start the thread, as it was his selection.  If he doesn't start one by tomorrow, I'll open one up.


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## Sam (Sep 17, 2003)

*September Discussion*

I've started the thread for discussion of jester47's selection for September, Dragondoom. You can find the thread here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63928


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## Sam (Sep 18, 2003)

Just a reminder that JoeBlank has chosen Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay for the November Selection.  We will begin discussion on November 1.  As a fan of Kay's Fionavar Tapestry and Sarantine Mosaic, I'm really looking forward to this book.  Now if Amazon will hurry up and get it here!


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## Dacileva (Sep 18, 2003)

Sam said:
			
		

> Just a reminder that JoeBlank has chosen Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay for the November Selection.  We will begin discussion on November 1.  As a fan of Kay's Fionavar Tapestry and Sarantine Mosaic, I'm really looking forward to this book.  Now if Amazon will hurry up and get it here!



Oh, me too!    I just picked it up from my local library (after requesting it through the Cleveland Library Net), so I'm all set to start it once I finish my current book (_Lion's Blood_, by Steven Barnes, which is *very* good so far, well into the last 1/4).

And yes, that means that I'm reading another book between Book Club selections.    I actually read two.  Right after finishing _Dragondoom_, I read _Lord of Castle Black_, to get the bad taste out of my head.  That read as fast as Brust's books usually do (sadly), so I started _Lion's Blood_, and should have it finished by this weekend.

Back to Guy Gavriel Kay, I loved the Fionavar Tapestry...  I think it's by far the best "real world people in a fantasy realm" story ever written, and I've just fallen deeply into it every time I've read it (3 times and counting).


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## JoeBlank (Sep 18, 2003)

Dacileva, I envy you, finding time to do all that reading. I barely made it through Dragondoom in time(although I liked it more than some of the others have indicated). I am just a slow reader, I guess. That and having a full time job, a wife and 3 kids.

I will start Tigana this weekend, if not tonight. I read the introduction (might be called a prelude or some such) back when I was making my decision on what book to choose, but I will need to reread that.

The only Kay I have read is Sailing to Sarantium, which I only finished a couple of months ago. I knew I wanted to read more, and had to choose one of his few "stand-alone" novels. Tigana struck my fancy, so here we go.


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## Sam (Sep 18, 2003)

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> Dacileva, I envy you, finding time to do all that reading. I barely made it through Dragondoom in time(although I liked it more than some of the others have indicated). I am just a slow reader, I guess. That and having a full time job, a wife and 3 kids.



Be careful what you envy.  I know that the reason I have time to read 4-6 books a month is because I spend upwards of 1:45 hours / day on a train.


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## Dacileva (Sep 19, 2003)

Sam said:
			
		

> Be careful what you envy.  I know that the reason I have time to read 4-6 books a month is because I spend upwards of 1:45 hours / day on a train.



Yup.  I have this much time to read because I'm only getting 15 hours a week of work, and my job is kinda boring.  And my fiancee is really sick, so she's sleeping most of the time.


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## Sam (Nov 2, 2003)

This discussion of November's selection, Tigana, has been started by JoeBlank in this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68039

Please join us!


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