# Star Trek Picard extended Comic-Con trailer



## MarkB (Jul 20, 2019)

Oh wow. This looks so much bigger, more far-reaching than I had expected from the first teaser trailer.

EDIT: Updated to working link.


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## trappedslider (Jul 20, 2019)

wow...7 of 9..and Brent


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## CapnZapp (Jul 20, 2019)




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## Morrus (Jul 21, 2019)

Patrick Stewart sounds older than he does currently in real life, and Spiner has been de-aged. Interesting!

Reports also say Riker is in it. I knew he directed some of it, but apparently he’s actually in it.

I hope there isn’t too much focus on the Romulan stuff. With Nemesis, and the Abrahms Trek reboot, I’m kinda bored of what wasn’t a very interesting plot thread in the first place. I’m not sure I care about this failed Romulus rescue.


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## Mercurius (Jul 21, 2019)

This looks so good; I agree, more expansive and interesting than I originally imagined.

Who do people think the young woman is? Obviously she's tied to the Borg somehow...maybe the first "Borg child" somehow?


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jul 21, 2019)

Mercurius said:


> This looks so good; I agree, more expansive and interesting than I originally imagined.
> 
> Who do people think the young woman is? Obviously she's tied to the Borg somehow...maybe the first "Borg child" somehow?




We actually see Borg children in the first episode we encounter the Borg. They were in some kind of maturation chamber, IIRC, and already had implants.

A theory I've seen about her is that she's actually Lal, though I don't know why or how people get that idea. 
Maybe she's actually a young Borg Queen? Maybe she is the Borg Queen, and it's time travel with predestination paradox and all. (I hope not.)

I figure the facility with all the prisoners contains liberated Borg, e.g. people like Hugh that were disconnected from the Collective. The note of "x work days since the last assimilation" might imply that they are contained and isolated to avoid that they form a new collective or reconnect to the regular Borg. The background novel/comics to the first Kelvin Timeline Movie (aka JJ.Trek) suggests that Nero's ship, the Narada, has been modified by Borg technology (not even Romulans build their mining vessels like warships). Star Trek Online uses the idea and suggests the Romulans had a Sphere in the facility that also altered the Narada. Whatever the specifics, that might lead to a lot of imprisoned Borg Drones that might have been disconnected from the Hive. Maybe on the one hand, Picard wants to get these people out of prison. And on the other hand, they represent a threat of, well, the Borg returning in some way, which is why they get imprisoned in the first place. Maybe the Federation or Starfleet is even complicit here, because they have the same worry.


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## doctorbadwolf (Jul 21, 2019)

I love the Romulans and the aftermath of their world dying is explored very interestingly in STO, so I’m looking forward to that.


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## Derren (Jul 21, 2019)

Mercurius said:


> This looks so good; I agree, more expansive and interesting than I originally imagined.
> 
> Who do people think the young woman is? Obviously she's tied to the Borg somehow...maybe the first "Borg child" somehow?




I guess she is a engineered borg queen who would be able to control other drones.


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## CapnZapp (Jul 22, 2019)

I think the worst decision was to add individuality to the Borg.

It's done over and over again (in film and literature). First add an implacable (and therefore interesting) threat. Then give it a central processor, or in this case a Queen, and you instantly know the snake now has a head you can cut off. 

The interesting foe instantly becomes normal, mundane, defeatable through regular means...

I loved the Borg as presented up until 1996; pre First Contact. Using the captains of your enemy as ultimately disposable commanders is genius.

Growing a head that allows your enemies to kill all of you with a single stroke, OTOH, is hackneyed lazy tired writing.


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## Umbran (Jul 22, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> It's done over and over again (in film and literature). First add an implacable (and therefore interesting) threat. Then give it a central processor, or in this case a Queen, and you instantly know the snake now has a head you can cut off.




Truly implacable threats aren't interesting.  If they are truly implacable, they kill your protagonists and win and the story ends

An antagonist isn't interesting if you cannot understand it.  A human must be able to grasp the antagonist's motivations and plans, or the antagonist is a force of nature - and the antagonist in a natural disaster film isn't the interesting part.  Once you can understand an antagonist, they are humanized, and thus have flaws, and can be beaten.


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## Raunalyn (Jul 22, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> I think the worst decision was to add individuality to the Borg.
> 
> It's done over and over again (in film and literature). First add an implacable (and therefore interesting) threat. Then give it a central processor, or in this case a Queen, and you instantly know the snake now has a head you can cut off.
> 
> ...




I 100% agree with this. The pre First Contact Borg were terrifying; cold, calculating, and utterly fearless, almost like an unstoppable virus that swept everything up before them. Adding individuality to them made them mundane; it was a cheesy way to make them defeatable.


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## Raunalyn (Jul 22, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Truly implacable threats aren't interesting.  If they are truly implacable, they kill your protagonists and win and the story ends
> 
> An antagonist isn't interesting if you cannot understand it.  A human must be able to grasp the antagonist's motivations and plans, or the antagonist is a force of nature - and the antagonist in a natural disaster film isn't the interesting part.  Once you can understand an antagonist, they are humanized, and thus have flaws, and can be beaten.




I agree somewhat. However, it is the journey and growing to overcome that implacable threat that makes an interesting story, too.


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## Umbran (Jul 22, 2019)

Raunalyn said:


> I agree somewhat. However, it is the journey and growing to overcome that implacable threat that makes an interesting story, too.




There is a huge difference between, "the implacable threat itself is interesting" and "the implacable threat makes for an interesting story and action by the protagonists".


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## CapnZapp (Jul 22, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Truly implacable threats aren't interesting.  If they are truly implacable, they kill your protagonists and win and the story ends
> 
> An antagonist isn't interesting if you cannot understand it.  A human must be able to grasp the antagonist's motivations and plans, or the antagonist is a force of nature - and the antagonist in a natural disaster film isn't the interesting part.  Once you can understand an antagonist, they are humanized, and thus have flaws, and can be beaten.



Umm... okay? So the argument "I want my foes completely implacable" has been struck down - great for you!

In the meanwhile, what are your opinions on what I am actually saying?  (Do you like the way the Borg got a Queen, or not?)

Cheers, Z


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## CapnZapp (Jul 22, 2019)

Umbran said:


> There is a huge difference between, "the implacable threat itself is interesting" and "the implacable threat makes for an interesting story and action by the protagonists".



And there's a huge difference between that and what I actually wanted to hear your opinions on, which is "giving swarm enemies a talking head is lame and trite"


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## MarkB (Jul 22, 2019)

I agree about the Borg - they lost a lot of their menace with the introduction of the Borg Queen. As a threat which the protagonists had to learn to understand and find ways to effectively oppose they were interesting. Spontaneously becoming more ordinary felt cheap, and a waste of a good antagonist.


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## Umbran (Jul 22, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> Umm... okay? So the argument "I want my foes completely implacable" has been struck down - great for you!
> 
> In the meanwhile, what are your opinions on what I am actually saying?  (Do you like the way the Borg got a Queen, or not?)




Well, you say more than one thing - if you want more focus in your answers, keep your presentation more focused 

I think giving the Borg a face was inevitable.  If you don't give them a face, they are, as I already noted, a force of nature.  Characters don't interact *personally* with nature.  So, dramatically speaking, the force of nature only allows you to play with the interactions you already have.  It doesn't create new interactions.  So, it is cool a couple of times, but eventually gets repetitive.  It is only in relating with other sentient beings that we potentially have an antagonist with staying power.

They held this off as long as they could - exploring the "person" of the Borg through Hugh and 7 of 9.  But eventually those become so human as to no longer really be Borg proxies.  Eventually, to keep them narratively dynamic, the Borg needed to be personified.  Thus, the Queen.

Was this the best personification of the Borg we could imagine?  Maybe, maybe not.  But something of this ilk was necessary, from a storytelling perspective.


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## Legatus Legionis (Jul 24, 2019)

.


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## trancejeremy (Jul 24, 2019)

While part of me thinks this is pretty neat, at the same time, I really wish there was a Star Trek that was more like Star Trek of the past...going into space and exploring new worlds.

I play Star Trek Online and basically it's one war after another. Seems like Star Trek has done that on screen since DS9.  I mean, war was always part of Star Trek, what with the Klingons and Romulans. But it was more a backdrop, not the focus.


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## Imaculata (Jul 24, 2019)

I've got to admit, seeing the Borg again made me groan a little. Why is that the first thing they go back to?


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## Sadras (Jul 24, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> I've got to admit, seeing the Borg again made me groan a little. Why is that the first thing they go back to?




Alex Kurtzman


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## Morrus (Jul 24, 2019)

Looks like the OP video has been removed.


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## ART! (Jul 24, 2019)

Umbran said:


> They held this off as long as they could - exploring the "person" of the Borg through Hugh and 7 of 9.  But eventually those become so human as to no longer really be Borg proxies.  Eventually, to keep them narratively dynamic, the Borg needed to be personified.  Thus, the Queen.
> 
> Was this the best personification of the Borg we could imagine?  Maybe, maybe not.  But something of this ilk was necessary, from a storytelling perspective.




To nitpick: _First Contact_ came out in 1996, a couple years before the introduction of 7 of 9.

The creation of a Borg Queen seems like a misunderstanding of the Borg collective. Basically, someone went from "collective" to "hive", that made them think of bees, and then "hey - bees have a queen! Brilliant!" It seems like a great idea until you realize it kind of makes no sense. I guess the argument is the Borg thinking "it will make it easier for us to understand these foolish individualized species", but why would they bother. It could indicate an infection of the collective from assimilating so many individuals, and maybe how they assimilated Picard in particular.



Imaculata said:


> I've got to admit, seeing the Borg again made me groan a little. Why is that the first thing they go back to?




In their defense, Picards experiences with the Borg are some of the most significant challenges and turning points of his life, and their appearance coincided with his command of the Federation's flagship, and their awareness of the Alpha Quadrant's "resources" could be blamed on him (or Q, but it wouldn't surprise me if he blames himself).


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## Umbran (Jul 24, 2019)

ART! said:


> To nitpick: _First Contact_ came out in 1996, a couple years before the introduction of 7 of 9.




Hm.  Correct.  The Borg don't meaningfully appear in Trek between First Contact, and the introduction of 7 of 9, so I got them out of order.

Which, interestingly, gives us a point. Other than First Contact, Voyager's the only place the Queen shows up.  



> The creation of a Borg Queen seems like a misunderstanding of the Borg collective. Basically, someone went from "collective" to "hive", that made them think of bees, and then "hey - bees have a queen! Brilliant!"




With respect, no.  They have been entirely clear about why they created the Borg Queen: "_First Contact writers Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore have defended the introduction of the Queen as a dramatic necessity, noting on the film's DVD audio commentary that they had initially written the film with drones, but then found that it was essential for the main characters to have someone to interact with beyond mindless drones._ "


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## ART! (Jul 24, 2019)

Umbran said:


> With respect, no.  They have been entirely clear about why they created the Borg Queen: "_First Contact writers Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore have defended the introduction of the Queen as a dramatic necessity, noting on the film's DVD audio commentary that they had initially written the film with drones, but then found that it was essential for the main characters to have someone to interact with beyond mindless drones._ "




Huh. Well, alrighty! Thanks.

Now I'm starting to imagine an alternate FC wherein they fill this need for individuals to interact with by coming up with interesting/new ways for the Borg to assimilate Picard and/or other crewmembers. Picard vs his assimilated crew? Borg Data? Picard and crew vs other Alpha Quadrant and even Starfleet ships and crews who've been Borgified? Rather than create a Queen (I can't recall - was she created relatively recently before FC, or had she always been there?), the Borg create one or more new kinds of proxies and experiements...


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## CapnZapp (Jul 24, 2019)

Umbran said:


> With respect, no.  They have been entirely clear about why they created the Borg Queen: "_First Contact writers Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore have defended the introduction of the Queen as a dramatic necessity, noting on the film's DVD audio commentary that they had initially written the film with drones, but then found that it was essential for the main characters to have someone to interact with beyond mindless drones._ "



That's exactly my point: "No it ain't!"

A much better set of writers would tell the story in such a way it would no longer be "essential" to create a franking "queen".

Even a somewhat better set of writers would realize it would be better to not create a stupid queen, even if it meant Picard had to talk to drones.

Only a hack writer would underestimate the cost of defanging perhaps the greatest foe ever devised in Trekdom just to take a convenient narrative shortcut.


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## ART! (Jul 24, 2019)

I don't know what production was like on FC, but if there was a time crunch then the creation of a Queen could have been something that in the heat of the moment seemed necessary or like it solved some problems and they just ran with it. Even good writers make mistakes.


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## Umbran (Jul 24, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> A much better set of writers would tell the story in such a way it would no longer be "essential" to create a franking "queen".




Hypothetical, and effectively a non-falsifiable "no true Scotsman", as you can simply identify anyone who doesn't or can't do it the way you want it as not a "better writer".



> Only a hack writer would underestimate the cost of defanging perhaps the greatest foe ever devised in Trekdom just to take a convenient narrative shortcut.




I don't see how they were "defanged" in any meaningful sense.  What power of theirs is removed?


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## Ryujin (Jul 24, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> That's exactly my point: "No it ain't!"
> 
> A much better set of writers would tell the story in such a way it would no longer be "essential" to create a franking "queen".
> 
> ...




People had previously spoken to the overall "Borg Consciousness" when interacting with them, so I don't know why they couldn't have done so again.


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## MarkB (Jul 24, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Looks like the OP video has been removed.




Yes, a few days ago, but I haven't found a suitable replacement that I could edit in.


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## Derren (Jul 24, 2019)

MarkB said:


> Yes, a few days ago, but I haven't found a suitable replacement that I could edit in.




There are official videos from Amazon or CBS (although the latter one with a bit of talkshow content in the beginning).
So if you do not mind a company logo in the corner you can use them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhBBXHwEsIo


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jul 24, 2019)

The first time we encounter the Borg, they are indeed a force of nature, and the core of the story is the conflict between Q and Picard.
The second time the Borg are already given a face eventually with Locutus, but a big part of the conflict is between Riker and Shelby's rivalry and their ability to eventually overcome it.
The third time the Borg also get a more relatable face with Hugh, but of course he's not representing a collective, but someone that got free of it, and it's about Picard overcoming his hatred of the Borg. 
The fourth time it's actually more about the relationship between Data and Lore.
The fifth time it is a lot about Picard again overcoming his anger and hatred of the Borg, and the Borg are getting a face with the Queen. In some ways the story is actually retreating a character development that already happened in the series, but we're okay with it because it has some good action and drama and the Data/Queen/Picard is pretty good, coupled with great special effects.


EDIT:

If you need a Trailer, I can't link to it directly, but this one from Patrick Stewarts Twitter seems to be internationally viewable: https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/stat...434/star-trek-picard-trailer-patrick-stewart/


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## Umbran (Jul 24, 2019)

Ryujin said:


> People had previously spoken to the overall "Borg Consciousness" when interacting with them, so I don't know why they couldn't have done so again.






Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> The second time the Borg are already given a face eventually with Locutus, but a big part of the conflict is between Riker and Shelby's rivalry and their ability to eventually overcome it.




(from Memory Alpha)
"_The character of Locutus was created as a result of the writing staff of Star Trek: The Next Generation feeling it necessary for the Borg to have a spokesman, which the writing staffers referred to as a "queen bee." (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages) Another inspiration on the character's creation, according to writer Michael Piller, was that the writing staff was requested by Paramount to devise a method of potentially writing Picard actor Patrick Stewart out of the series after the third season. This was because Paramount was having negotiating difficulties regarding closing a deal with Stewart that would see him return for the fourth season. (Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 23, p. 16)_ "

Setting aside the contract negotiation issues...

I think we see here a repeating theme.  Folks are correct that, yeah, you could have a character speak to the collective as a whole.  But, we are also talking about the mass market here, and maybe _cinematographically_ speaking, that doesn't play well.  Your audience is made of humans, and they are used to interactions with concrete individuals.  Locutus and the Queen seem to be there because, however it may play as a story to some folks, more broadly the audience may not get it if you don't have a face for the collective.

Heck, the Borg *tell us* this is necessary, in Best of Both Worlds, Part 1:

*BORG:* Death is irrelevant. Your archaic cultures are authority driven. To facilitate our introduction into your societies, it has been decided that a human voice will speak for us in all communications. You have been chosen to be that voice. 

The Borg recognize that the humans need a face to talk to.


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## Ryujin (Jul 24, 2019)

Umbran said:


> (from Memory Alpha)
> "_The character of Locutus was created as a result of the writing staff of Star Trek: The Next Generation feeling it necessary for the Borg to have a spokesman, which the writing staffers referred to as a "queen bee." (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages) Another inspiration on the character's creation, according to writer Michael Piller, was that the writing staff was requested by Paramount to devise a method of potentially writing Picard actor Patrick Stewart out of the series after the third season. This was because Paramount was having negotiating difficulties regarding closing a deal with Stewart that would see him return for the fourth season. (Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 23, p. 16)_ "
> 
> Setting aside the contract negotiation issues...
> ...




Yeah , I both remember and get that but I could wish for something different that the old memes, couldn't I?


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## MarkB (Jul 24, 2019)

Derren said:


> There are official videos from Amazon or CBS (although the latter one with a bit of talkshow content in the beginning).
> So if you do not mind a company logo in the corner you can use them.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhBBXHwEsIo




Thanks - updated.


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## Janx (Jul 24, 2019)

I saw an interview with the picard cast today, and spiner slipped that the body in the drawer is B4's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAEcycivP4w


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## CapnZapp (Jul 24, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Hypothetical, and effectively a non-falsifiable "no true Scotsman", as you can simply identify anyone who doesn't or can't do it the way you want it as not a "better writer".



Nope.

You're the expert on fallacies, Umbran, you tell me what this one's called:

You're asked to share your opinion, but you interpret it as a challenge to provide scientific proof.

In other words, I see you bringing up quotes, and business data and whatnot.

What I don't see, however, is you doing one of two things:
a) simply agreement: "yeah, shame about how they crapped all over the Borg"

or

b) disagreement: "nope, I personally think the Borg got better by having a Queen, and here are my top three argument as to why"

The closest you come is "it's inevitable". That's still distanced and logical, and not really sharing an opinion you could then be held to.

But you do you. Have a nice day. Myself, I think I've made my own opinion abundantly clear, so I'm outta here.


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## Derren (Jul 24, 2019)

Janx said:


> I saw an interview with the picard cast today, and spiner slipped that the body in the drawer is B4's
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAEcycivP4w




Was that ever in doubt?
I read some speculation that the end of the trailer is on a holodeck. That would also explain why he doesn't want the game to end as that would likely mean the end of the program.


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## Umbran (Jul 24, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> The closest you come is "it's inevitable". That's still distanced and logical, and not really sharing an opinion you could then be held to.




You hold people to _opinions_ in your regular life?

I hold people to promises.  I hold them to stated facts.  I hold them to their logic.  I don't hold people to "I liked/disliked this".  As far as I am concerned, you can change your preferences on the borg Queen seven times in a day, and I wouldn't care.  

The Shakespearean phrase is, "there is no accounting for taste".


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## Kaodi (Jul 25, 2019)

I wonder if she is some sort of clone of the original Borg Queen that we met, the one that turned Picard into Locutus. The Borg released her "into the wild" to acquire the modicum of individuality that other queens had prior to assimilation, but something happened and here we are.


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## CapnZapp (Jul 25, 2019)

Umbran said:


> You hold people to _opinions_ in your regular life?
> 
> I hold people to promises.  I hold them to stated facts.  I hold them to their logic.  I don't hold people to "I liked/disliked this".  As far as I am concerned, you can change your preferences on the borg Queen seven times in a day, and I wouldn't care.
> 
> The Shakespearean phrase is, "there is no accounting for taste".



Still posting to "win" I see. 

Still not exposing any personal feelings, I see.

Whatever. Best of luck.


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## MarkB (Jul 25, 2019)

Kaodi said:


> I wonder if she is some sort of clone of the original Borg Queen that we met, the one that turned Picard into Locutus. The Borg released her "into the wild" to acquire the modicum of individuality that other queens had prior to assimilation, but something happened and here we are.




My guess is that the Romulans have somehow got their hands on a disabled Borg cube, and are slowly de-Borgifying the crew, then keeping them in a holding facility, perhaps with the intention of later rehabilitating them, or perhaps simply as a potential intelligence asset.

The girl is almost certainly one of these former Borg, and an escapee. I think she could be one, or both, of two things - either a Borg queen or not-deprogrammed Borg drone who still poses the threat of assimilation if she regains her memories, or else simply someone who's seen too much of what the Romulans are planning to do with the Borg tech they're reverse-engineering, and who must therefore be silenced before she can tell others.

It would not surprise me if she is the latter, but the Romulans are pretending that she is the former in order to goad others into hunting her with lethal force.


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## Umbran (Jul 25, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> Still posting to "win" I see.




I don't think this is game with winners and losers.  It's just a discussion.



> Still not exposing any personal feelings, I see.




Actually, the exact opposite.  My personal feeling is that the question of like/don't like is way, way less interesting than considering the structural and presentation needs that led to her introduction.

How about you stop throwing shade, and just let people talk about aspects of things they want to, hm?


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## Janx (Jul 26, 2019)

Derren said:


> Was that ever in doubt?
> I read some speculation that the end of the trailer is on a holodeck. That would also explain why he doesn't want the game to end as that would likely mean the end of the program.




Yes.  Because they put B4 together in Nemesis and uploaded Data's memories into him. In the comic, he became Data.

It's no surprise they didn't follow the comic, but it is a surprise that they disassembled a person and put them in a drawer.


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## Maxperson (Jul 26, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Truly implacable threats aren't interesting.  If they are truly implacable, they kill your protagonists and win and the story ends
> 
> An antagonist isn't interesting if you cannot understand it.  A human must be able to grasp the antagonist's motivations and plans, or the antagonist is a force of nature - and the antagonist in a natural disaster film isn't the interesting part.  Once you can understand an antagonist, they are humanized, and thus have flaws, and can be beaten.




I don't know if I agree with this.  With the Borg, it's perfectly within a human's capability to understand that they are a collective with no individual power structure.  So how do you beat an enemy like that?  Perhaps by disrupting their ability to intercommunicate, forcing intense disarray.  Or maybe by introducing a virus that disrupts that communication and allows individuality to return, causing a civil war where one side is equal in technology and adaption to the other and the Borg take themselves out.

There are ways to keep them as the non-individualistic foe that they started out as and eventually defeat them.  

My biggest complaint with Voyager was how that show trivialized the Borg.  I mean, "Hey, let's take a trip to the Borg homeworld." and "Oops! We just accidentally destroyed a half dozen Borg Cubes." basically invalidated the Borg as this major enemy that is far in advance of the Federation.


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## CapnZapp (Jul 26, 2019)

Umbran said:


> I don't think this is game with winners and losers.  It's just a discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was you who took my dislike for the Borg Queen and went with:



> Hypothetical, and effectively a non-falsifiable "no true Scotsman", as you can simply identify anyone who doesn't or can't do it the way you want it as not a "better writer".



My response was to point out how your responses are only what the writers think or what dramatic license "requires" and to ask you to instead tell me what you personally think.

Why? Because I don't care for your implication that the BQ was inevitable or had to happen. (And I don't care for the way you try to logically prove it either instead of confronting me with "I, Umbran, think it had to happen")

If you're like me, and detest them taking the easy way out, why not forget about what "must be" and instead focus on the instances of truly great writing, where these things either do not happen, or are executed well enough to win over the audience.

Alternatively, you could own up to engaging with me because you actually *like* the idea of a BQ.

Under no circumstances am I throwing shade. I'm just not interested in making this a game of discussion-winning.


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## CapnZapp (Jul 26, 2019)

Maxperson said:


> I don't know if I agree with this.  With the Borg, it's perfectly within a human's capability to understand that they are a collective with no individual power structure.  So how do you beat an enemy like that?  Perhaps by disrupting their ability to intercommunicate, forcing intense disarray.  Or maybe by introducing a virus that disrupts that communication and allows individuality to return, causing a civil war where one side is equal in technology and adaption to the other and the Borg take themselves out.
> 
> There are ways to keep them as the non-individualistic foe that they started out as and eventually defeat them.
> 
> My biggest complaint with Voyager was how that show trivialized the Borg.  I mean, "Hey, let's take a trip to the Borg homeworld." and "Oops! We just accidentally destroyed a half dozen Borg Cubes." basically invalidated the Borg as this major enemy that is far in advance of the Federation.



Yes, of course. Thank you.


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## Imaculata (Jul 27, 2019)

My biggest worry is that the story for this show will be just terrible. They promoted this show with the premise that it would be a deep dive into Picard's character, but the first thing I see in the trailer is lots of action and fighting. I'm afraid it will be a mess. The inclusion of the Borg makes my worries only worse. We've already seen the Borg a ton of time, including on other Star Trek shows, and in the Star Trek movies (which were terrible). We don't need more of the Borg; we need new ideas. But this trailer suggests that they are all out of those.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jul 27, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> My biggest worry is that the story for this show will be just terrible. They promoted this show with the premise that it would be a deep dive into Picard's character, but the first thing I see in the trailer is lots of action and fighting. I'm afraid it will be a mess. The inclusion of the Borg makes my worries only worse. We've already seen the Borg a ton of time, including on other Star Trek shows, and in the Star Trek movies (which were terrible). We don't need more of the Borg; we need new ideas. But this trailer suggests that they are all out of those.




The first thing you see in the trailer is not lots of action and fighting, unless you deliberately closed your eyes. 

The first you see is a landscape, presumably Picard's vineyard, then a switch to the building of his vineyard, then someone (probably Picard) closing a door, someone opening a bedroom window, Picard looking out of a window, a container containing a TNG era combadge being opened, Picard standing contemplatively, a storage containing a Data/B4/Lore type damaged Android body opening and Picard with a second person standing over it, then some kind of flying drone flying over a vineyard, someone walking through a vineyard with a dog, Picard with his combadge, something I can't quite make out, a woman walking through the rain walking past a storefront with pictures of PIcard, same woman with a building in the background taking back her hood, PIcard's face, the woman talking to Picard, a modern-looking building with people in Starfleet uniforms walking around and Picard looking toward it, Picard talking to an Admiral, a fight scene with someone shooting at someone else, closeup on Picard's face, someone fighting in hand-to-hand-combat, with someone beaming away, Picard talking in front of a fireplace, some ships approaching a reddish planet, someone or something lying on a bed, Picard entering a room, Captain Picard day memorabilia, some kind of prison, people in what looks like prisoner garbs, a Vulcan or Romulan looking woman talking to Picard, Picard walking through a sparse landscape, Picard in front of some place where people seem to be transporting, a few shots of characters on a bridge, Picard holing up his hands, a woman with a gun, a Vulcan or Romulan talking with Picard, Picard, the Romulan/VUlcan and a woman walking, a Vulcan/Romulan talking with Picard, a shot of a bridge including Picard on it, a closeup of PIcard probably on that bridge, Picard walking through a village, Picard walking with some woman through a futuristic looking room, a door opening for someone, the woman sitting on a bed, a Vulcanoid man talking to a (probably Vulcanoid) woman, some shots of Picard, someone warning someone, a closeup of the face of the woman from the beginning, the shot of a damaged or being built Borg Cube, Picard preparing a drink, Seven of Nine talking to Picard, brief glimplse at what might bhe borg cube, the bridge we've seen before, some Vulcanoid manhandling Picard, a borg drone on a medbed or something, Sven of Nine, two people running, Picard holding a  phaser, the woman from the beginning turning around, Picard saying engage, someone like Data in a poker game with Picard.

Not only is action and fighting not the first thing you see in the trailer, there is also not "lots of it" to see overall. 

Maybe the only non-action scenes are in the trailer, and the entire rest of the series will be Picard's new crew beating up everyone, but it's not that likely.


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## MarkB (Jul 27, 2019)

Also, trailers, especially for long-running series, always focus on both the more exciting elements and the more familiar elements, because that's what brings people in. You can include a two-second glimpse of a well-beloved character or a familiar foe, and it immediately sells to the audience because they already have context and familiarity with it. Put in a two-second - or even ten-second - glimpse of something entirely new and unfamiliar, and it won't mean anything to anybody.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jul 28, 2019)

Man, if only I had seen this article earlier, I could have avoided having to write the breakdown myself and just link to the article: 
https://io9.gizmodo.com/breaking-down-the-familiar-faces-and-new-reveals-of-the-1836608419
A good break-down of everything we see in the trailer. With the added bonus that they name some of the characters and actors involved.


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## Mercurius (Jul 29, 2019)

I must admit being excited to see a new Enterprise, assuming of course that the Enterprise shows up. Which it should. It must. I mean, really...

And yes, while I love the idea of a more contemplative, slower-moving Trek, I also would love to see Picard captain the Enterprise again.


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## Kaodi (Jul 31, 2019)

I have two words for you: mandatory retirement.


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## MarkB (Jul 31, 2019)

Mercurius said:


> I must admit being excited to see a new Enterprise, assuming of course that the Enterprise shows up. Which it should. It must. I mean, really...
> 
> And yes, while I love the idea of a more contemplative, slower-moving Trek, I also would love to see Picard captain the Enterprise again.




This is a post-Starfleet Picard. I'd love to see the Enterprise show up, sure, but only as a cameo.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 6, 2019)

A new trailer is out.

International (or rather: Amazon Prime, Canada might be excluded since they might have a different deal)

US:

The Romulan Bird of Prey scenes kinda remind me of Star Trek Online - if you play the Romulan faction, your first ship is an obsolete T'liss (TOS era Bird of Prey) as well...


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## Imaculata (Oct 6, 2019)

The trailer looks nice, but Alex Kurtzman is one of the main writers, responsible for such gems as Star Trek Discovery, Star Trek into Darkness, The Mummy (the Tom Cruise one), Cowboys and Aliens, Transformers and Transformers Revenge of the Fallen. So, it is probably going to be terrible.

But I hope I'm wrong.


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## Morrus (Oct 7, 2019)

That looks incredible. I can't wait!


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## Umbran (Oct 7, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> The trailer looks nice, but Alex Kurtzman is one of the main writers, responsible for such gems as Star Trek Discovery, Star Trek into Darkness, The Mummy (the Tom Cruise one), Cowboys and Aliens, Transformers and Transformers Revenge of the Fallen.




It isn't perfect, but Discovery is doing okay, and what on Earth can you have against_ Cowboys and Aliens_?  I mean, the film gives you exactly what it claims!


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## Hussar (Oct 8, 2019)

What's wrong with the idea that the mystery woman is Lal?  Seems like an idea that might have legs.  I could see Lal having been infected by the Borg somehow - a purely synthetic intelligence without the need for biological impurities might be something that interests the Borg considerably.


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## Umbran (Oct 8, 2019)

Hussar said:


> What's wrong with the idea that the mystery woman is Lal?




Um... the fact that Lal died on screen?


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## Morrus (Oct 8, 2019)

Somebody remind me who Lal is?


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## lowkey13 (Oct 8, 2019)

*Deleted by user*


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## Umbran (Oct 8, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Somebody remind me who Lal is?




Data created an offspring (in an episode entitled, unsurprisingly, "The Offspring", Season 3, episode 16), named Lal.  She suffers a "cascade failure" when she starts to experience intense human emotion (fear of being separated from her parent), and had to be deactivated.

This was well prior to the "emotion chip" designed by Soong surfaced, allowing Data to process emotions.


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## Morrus (Oct 8, 2019)

Ah, right, yeah. I remember her now.


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## BookBarbarian (Oct 8, 2019)

The last bit of star trek I really loved was First Contact. I never even finished watching Voyager. But I might have to now because I'm all on board for this.


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## Hussar (Oct 9, 2019)

Been a long time since I saw it.  But, since she's an android, bringing her back isn't exactly a stretch.


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## Umbran (Oct 9, 2019)

Hussar said:


> Been a long time since I saw it.  But, since she's an android, bringing her back isn't exactly a stretch.




It would require Data having done so off-screen, before his own death, and not having mentioned the fact that he did so before.  That's... awkward.


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## Hussar (Oct 9, 2019)

Why?  We're talking several decades after TNG and the movies.  That's a fair bit of tech development.  It's not like someone else couldn't have rebuilt her.  

It's not likely, true, but, it's not exactly a stretch either.  Heck, someone decides to tinker with Borg Tech and uses this android shell to house stuff.  Poof, Lal is back.


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## Umbran (Oct 9, 2019)

Hussar said:


> Why?  We're talking several decades after TNG and the movies.  That's a fair bit of tech development.  It's not like someone else couldn't have rebuilt her.




Why would anyone rebuild Lal, specifically?  She was important to Data.  Data is gone.  There's no emotional reason to bring back Lal.

In terms of technology - remember, we are talking about an android whose positronic brain was unstable and catastrophically failed.  Not a sound technological basis on which to build something.  If you really wanted to bring back an android, you'd resurrect Data in B-4s body, and not have to stretch much credulity to do it.  B-4 was simple, but at least stable.

I can understand bringing back a fan favorite or two (like Riker and Troi) just because.  But a character that existed in one episode, and was only really important to another charcter.. who is currently dead?  Not so much.  


> It's not likely, true, but, it's not exactly a stretch either.




I'm saying that conceptually, it is a stretch.  There is no obvious reason to do this.  So, now you have to start coming up with (possibly tortured and lame) justifications for the event happening.  Why?  Just to say you did it?  What's the compelling ploit or emotional hook to it?

If it matters, the actress who played Lal (Hallie Todd) is not listed as being in the show.


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## BookBarbarian (Oct 9, 2019)

Yeah I would think she was Locutus's daughter (possibly with the Borg Queen) more than I would guess she is Lal.


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## Ryujin (Oct 10, 2019)

Or simply another Borg freed from The Collective, with no specific connection except to the former Locutus.


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## Hussar (Oct 10, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Why would anyone rebuild Lal, specifically?  She was important to Data.  Data is gone.  There's no emotional reason to bring back Lal.
> 
> In terms of technology - remember, we are talking about an android whose positronic brain was unstable and catastrophically failed.  Not a sound technological basis on which to build something.  If you really wanted to bring back an android, you'd resurrect Data in B-4s body, and not have to stretch much credulity to do it.  B-4 was simple, but at least stable.




Hrmmm, there is only one sentient machine in the Federation and that's Data.  He built a copy of himself (more or less) that didn't work, but, is still built based on the most advanced positronic brain in existence.  Two or three decades go by and someone thinks, "Hrmmm, I wonder if I could make that work and create a SECOND truly sentient machine intelligence."

Not exactly a huge stretch.  Considering you've basically only got two choices - B4 or Lal - if you wanted to recreate Dr. Soong's work. 

Now, to be fair, I don't think it's Lal.  I agree that it most likely isn't.  I'm just saying that it's not as much of a stretch as people seem to think.


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## MarkB (Oct 10, 2019)

It's not as though sentient AIs are a stretch technologically in the Federation. Heck, leave a holodeck running for more than half an hour and you stand an even chance of at least one character in there spontaneously achieving free will. No need to dig up old prototypes.


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## BookBarbarian (Oct 10, 2019)

Ryujin said:


> Or simply another Borg freed from The Collective, with no specific connection except to the former Locutus.



very possible


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