# Increase in trolling?



## Bullgrit (Oct 29, 2013)

Maybe this is just pointing at the pink elephant in the room, but...

Is it my imagination, or is there a marked increase in attempts to troll around here? At least in the Miscellaneous Geek Talk forum, (the only one I regularly read). It seems to me that some of the "new guys" from the WotC forums really like to poke at people and argue to get a reaction. So far it doesn't look like anyone much takes the bait, and lately the baiting seems too obvious to trick someone into an argument. 

I mean, humorously, I just read a post that referred to Star Wars as "Star Bores" at least 4 times in a one-paragraph post. It made me actually chuckle, the trolling seemed almost desperate to pick a fight with a SW fan.

So, 
First: Has anyone else noticed or felt this?

Second: It kind of makes the forum less fun when you see kids in the crowd actively trying to incite a fight. Even if no one takes the bait, it just makes the forum less comfortable as a lounge for friendly discussions when you know some folks seem to be only interested in deliberately aggravating someone else.

But maybe after a few months of finding that folks around here don't enjoy fighting as much, the attempts to troll will cease?

Bullgrit


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## jonesy (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm noticing it too. And I have been reacting to the stuff they've said, even though I probably shouldn't have. I'm not usually one to go for a baiting attempt, but..

What's the protocol for placing someone on ignore? I've never done it before to anyone. Do I tell the person I'm doing it, or do I just do it and forget about it?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 29, 2013)

I don't think there's any set etiquette to it.  I know people have announced additions to their ignore lists and some who haven't.  I have noticed, however, that most of the announcements are in the heat of the discussion and came off...huffy.


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## Morrus (Oct 29, 2013)

It's bad form to announce it. Just add them to the list and quietly go on with the rest of your posting. I have a couple of people on mine.


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## Umbran (Oct 29, 2013)

jonesy said:


> Do I tell the person I'm doing it, or do I just do it and forget about it?




Just do it and forget it.  I've never seen an announcement of it, public or private, turn out well.


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## jonesy (Oct 29, 2013)

Duly noted.


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## JamesonCourage (Oct 30, 2013)

Agree with  [MENTION=31216]Bullgrit[/MENTION] on this one. I really hope that it dies down, because it's an overall negative addition to the site, in my opinion. I love EN World for its civility, and I'd really hate to see that erode out of some sense of "let's seem welcoming to other site's users."


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## billd91 (Oct 30, 2013)

JamesonCourage said:


> Agree with  [MENTION=31216]Bullgrit[/MENTION] on this one. I really hope that it dies down, because it's an overall negative addition to the site, in my opinion. I love EN World for its civility, and I'd really hate to see that erode out of some sense of "let's seem welcoming to other site's users."




What's the alternative? Closing down the ability to gain new members? I figure it's a clash of cultures and we're seeing it particularly because a substantial group with a different posting culture migrated in all at once. Give the process time and things will calm down.


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## Umbran (Oct 30, 2013)

This is a case where "don't feed the trolls" and "use the ignore list" will serve you well.  If nobody takes the bait, they'll get bored with the practice.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 30, 2013)

To a point...there are enough of them that they can probably entertain themselves much as they did in WotC's forums.


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## Umbran (Oct 30, 2013)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> To a point...there are enough of them that they can probably entertain themselves much as they did in WotC's forums.




That's okay.  There's plenty of precedent for threads that are really only for a particular clique - the Hive, for example.  If they want to just play with themselves, that's not a big deal, so long as they are not in gross violation of the rules.


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## JamesonCourage (Oct 30, 2013)

billd91 said:


> What's the alternative?



Warn and then ban the members that make this site worse, obviously.


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## billd91 (Oct 30, 2013)

JamesonCourage said:


> Warn and then ban the members that make this site worse, obviously.




In other words, the exact same process we apply to everyone whether they come alone or are part of a board migration.


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## JamesonCourage (Oct 30, 2013)

billd91 said:


> In other words, the exact same process we apply to everyone whether they come alone or are part of a board migration.



Ideally. I'm just saying let's not a mindset of "let's be extra lenient because they've migrated" apply. It's not worth it in the long run, in my opinion.


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## Morrus (Oct 30, 2013)

We've had inbound migrations a few times before; it usually works out the same way. Some of them will move on naturally. Others will decide to move on as soon as a moderator does something involving them, however minor. A small number will step over the line and be asked to leave. One will decide they have something to prove and start aggressively attacking me or one of the moderators.  In the end, we get left with a couple of new decent posters who decide they'd like to actually join the community. I expect it won't be any different this time round.


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## Bullgrit (Oct 30, 2013)

JamesonCourage said:
			
		

> Ideally. I'm just saying let's not a mindset of "let's be extra lenient because they've migrated" apply. It's not worth it in the long run, in my opinion.



Especially since I also think some of them are sort of teaming up to troll. I think some of them are taking an us-versus-them tactic to troll ENWorld in general. There's a very good example of the tactic going on right now, and I bet everyone recognizes it. 

Bullgrit


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## billd91 (Oct 31, 2013)

Bullgrit said:


> Especially since I also think some of them are sort of teaming up to troll. I think some of them are taking an us-versus-them tactic to troll ENWorld in general. There's a very good example of the tactic going on right now, and I bet everyone recognizes it.
> 
> Bullgrit




So deal with the trolls like you would any other. If you have anything to say on the topic, state your piece and move on. Don't engage the trolling. Besides, if this is the thread I'm thinking it is, Danny knows the law, knows its implications, and is doing just fine.


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## Umbran (Oct 31, 2013)

Morrus said:


> I expect it won't be any different this time round.




You are most likely correct, Guv'nor.  Time will sort it out, as usual.


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## Libramarian (Oct 31, 2013)

Perhaps it would be helpful to keep in mind that these guys aren't just migrating here, they were all permabanned from the WotC forums, presumably for doing there what they're now doing here.


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## Umbran (Oct 31, 2013)

It would also be helpful to keep in mind that except in some rather specific circumstances, we judge folks based on what they do here, not what they do elsewhere.  

If you want to put such a person on your ignore list due to their history, that's your choice.  But don't expect the mods to treat them more harshly due to their reported history on some other messageboard.


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## Libramarian (Oct 31, 2013)

I think that's good and fair. My comment was more for other regular posters rather than for moderators.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 31, 2013)

While I've noticed this, have reported at least once, and am bothered by it, I don't think ignore listing is the sole solution.  Yeah, that stops me being bothered, but for everyone else, the behavior persists, and I think it drags the boards down -- it's like the "broken windows" rationale for neighborhood crime, except this time it is negative posting behavior.

Thorough -- and consistent, to avoid a perception of persecution -- moderation I think is key.  That seems to be occurring (though I admit a few threads seem to have gone a bit further than I'd have expected before being locked).

EN World should be welcome and opening ... provided the newcomers adapt to the existing norms.  Posting environment here is what keeps me coming back for more than a decade.


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## Bullgrit (Oct 31, 2013)

...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Nov 1, 2013)

You could always give them a banner- "OTTers"- like exist for things like the various editions of D&D.  A warning and welcome, all in one.

Of course, the Hive would want one too!


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## Morrus (Nov 1, 2013)

One thing I have noticed is that traffic has been increasing steadily all year (recovering after the hack) and along with it comes a correlating increase in bans.  I generally view it as a last resort, but the number of people recently who've left me with no alternative (particularly aggressive attacks on me or Umbran [not that they're worse than others, but they're assured of being seen], political rants, personal insults) has increased (plus the ones who use Twitter to do so).  It's not up to 2006-ish levels where one person a week would just go rabid and start attacking indiscriminately, but it's on the up.


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## Umbran (Nov 1, 2013)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> Thorough -- and consistent, to avoid a perception of persecution -- moderation I think is key.




Oh, the mods will be accused of bias and persecution no matter how fair we are.  The person on the receiving end of moderation is generally angry, and will feel put upon no matter what we do - remember that they felt they were right to post that way to begin with, or they wouldn't have posted, so any action we take is going to be seen as undeserved.

There are the occasional gems, who, upon getting notice from us, realize the problem and acknowledge whatever portion of it was theirs.  These are worth their weight in gold 



> That seems to be occurring (though I admit a few threads seem to have gone a bit further than I'd have expected before being locked).




We try.  The process of shaking out those who cannot or will not adjust takes a while.  We really want to be sure that folks who have cool things to say stick around, and that means giving the others time to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are not going to adapt.

And, honestly, it is okay if EN World adapts a bit to newcomers, as well.   But that takes time, too.


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## Morrus (Nov 1, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Oh, the mods will be accused of bias and persecution no matter how fair we are.  The person on the receiving end of moderation is generally angry, and will feel put upon no matter what we do - remember that they felt they were right to post that way to begin with, or they wouldn't have posted, so any action we take is going to be seen as undeserved.




Everyone in prison is innocent.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Nov 2, 2013)

Morrus said:


> It's not up to 2006-ish levels where one person a week would just go rabid and start attacking indiscriminately, but it's on the up.




Pre-release jitters?


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## Scorpio616 (Nov 5, 2013)

Is there that much of a "don't snitch" feeling here?


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## Bullgrit (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm more convinced with every thread and post that there is intentional trolling at play. You mods, (especially Umbran and Morrus), have my sympathy and moral support. I'm avoiding responding to the trolling with my support for ENWorld moderation because I know that only makes your jobs harder and encourages the trolls to continue.

I've added four people to my ignore list. Those four are prolific posters, but they just are not interested in being nice members of the community. I'm sad that y'all have to actually read and deal with the crap.

Bullgrit


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## JamesonCourage (Nov 7, 2013)

Bullgrit said:


> I'm more convinced with every thread and post that there is intentional trolling at play. You mods, (especially Umbran and Morrus), have my sympathy and moral support. I'm avoiding responding to the trolling with my support for ENWorld moderation because I know that only makes your jobs harder and encourages the trolls to continue.
> 
> I've added four people to my ignore list. Those four are prolific posters, but they just are not interested in being nice members of the community. I'm sad that y'all have to actually read and deal with the crap.



Seconded (and XP sent). I'm just not seeing it; the cries of "why so serious" pretty much spelled it out to me. I don't have any poster on ignore, so I'll continue to report the rare post here and there, most likely; though if things do get better, I'll be happy, of course. I've got little hope that that'll be the case, but I'm open to it, if it does happen. (And if I need to change my reporting standards, feel free to let me know.)


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## Tom Strickland (Nov 13, 2013)

The "negative fuzzies" seekers--in contrast to those happy "warm fuzzies (feelings)" wallowers--seemingly validate the purported truism that "any fuzzies are better than no fuzzies at all". But "at what cost" victims and bystanders wonder when beholding such cringe-inducing communication?


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## Bedrockgames (Nov 14, 2013)

These guys are really cluttering the misc forum with threads about mundane issues like PTA meetings. It looks like trolling to me.


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

Cluttering does not count as trolling.  

If enough folks have a problem, we may ask them to keep the OT posts towards the geek end of the spectrum.


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## Bedrockgames (Nov 15, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Cluttering does not count as trolling.
> 
> If enough folks have a problem, we may ask them to keep the OT posts towards the geek end of the spectrum.




trolling may may be a rash conclusion on my part. It just all feels very off-topic to me. And it feels like we have a huge influx of new posters with a zesty attitude. I think it's the numbers that caught my attention.


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## Morrus (Nov 15, 2013)

Off topic stuff belongs in the off topic forum, so that's fine. If that forum gets busier we might split it. But it's not busy enough for that at present.


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