# Famous Wizards' Names



## Shin Okada (Nov 21, 2002)

Do anybody know how to pronounce those famous wizards'/Sorcerers' names?

Tenser
Nystul
Melf
Tasha
Leomund
Evard
Otiluke
Rary
Mordenkainen
Bigby
Drawmij

Can I find any document on the web?


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## 0-hr (Nov 21, 2002)

You want a document telling you what sound each letter makes? 

Honestly, just sound them out using standard midwestern phonetics. I really can't come up with more than one way to pronounce "Melf".


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## Zhure (Nov 21, 2002)

"Melf"
"ME-lf"
"Mulf"
"Mel" (the 'f' is silent)

Greg


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## Kamard (Nov 21, 2002)

Heh.  This is how I would pronounce them:

Tenser:   Ten-sir
Nystul:   Nigh-stool
Melf:  Melf, like elf with an M in front of it.
Tasha:  Tah-sha
Leomund:  Leomund
Evard:  Ee-vard
Otiluke: Oh-till-uke
Rary:  Rare-ee
Mordenkainen:   More-den-kigh-nan
Bigby:   Big-bee
Drawmij:   Draw-midge


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## Kae'Yoss (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: Famous Wizards' Names*



			
				Kamard said:
			
		

> *Melf:  Melf, like elf with an M in front of it.*




I'm a Melf - half Man, half Elf - and my own best friend!


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## 0-hr (Nov 21, 2002)

Zhure said:
			
		

> *"Melf"
> "ME-lf"
> "Mulf"
> "Mel" (the 'f' is silent)
> *



 Ok Zhury, show me an example of a real american-english word that ends in "elf" but does not sound like "self".

If you are just making stuff up, you might as well say that "Melf" is pronsounce "Petunia", it's just spelled funny...


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## Kae'Yoss (Nov 21, 2002)

Ki Ryn said:
			
		

> *"Melf" is pronsounce "Petunia", it's just spelled funny... *




Oh, didn't know that!


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## AuraSeer (Nov 21, 2002)

Ki Ryn said:
			
		

> *"Melf" is pronsounce "Petunia", it's just spelled funny... *



Wow, I bet Melf got the crap kicked out of him in grade school.


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## Zhure (Nov 21, 2002)

Ki Ryn said:
			
		

> * Ok Zhury, show me an example of a real american-english word that ends in "elf" but does not sound like "self".
> 
> If you are just making stuff up, you might as well say that "Melf" is pronsounce "Petunia", it's just spelled funny... *




A -- 
Instead of a pharaoh in heaven came Caesar
Down the aisle, Augustus, quiet as aether. 
For Michael, the head of the angels in heaven
Had control of the weather, heather, and leaven. 

B -- 
The lamb was in debt of him from the womb
Who never had need of a comb in the tomb. 

C -- 
The rock of science could indict 
The scent of the yacht in the night. 

D --
Rembrandt, the judge, 
Had the lodge with the fudge. 

E -- 
If to love the sterile canoe you choose, 
Then what you have loose, you soon will lose.

F -- 
The one silent “f” is found not with
First, second, third, or fourth, but fifth. 

G -- 
The gnome would deign to right the sign. 
The gnat’s design was a paradigm. 

H -- 
The hour when Bach ran out of thyme 
Was an ache for the myrrh’s heir that was trying to rhyme.
And to whet the scheme of the treacherous yacht 
Which wondered whether its plans were of naught,
Was the naughty one which sought a fight 
And wanted to know, what, where, when, and why. 

I -- 
The lieutenant, I sent, 
In lieu of a friend. 

J --
The only silent “j” that I could afford 
Was the questionable one in the word fjord. 

K -- 
Do you know of the knife 
In the knot of the knight? 

L -- 
The colonel was a fellow as calm as could be, 
And watched the folk eat salmon, until he was free. 

M -- 
The only silent “m” in our language of phonics, 
Seems to be the one in the word mnemonic. 

N -- 
If you sing solemn hymns to our God above, 
You will not be damned, but folded in love. 

O -- 
Leonard, you said a young group would come, 
In theory, in jeopardy of crayons in their thumbs. 

P -- 
A pseudo corps of psychics, Tina, 
Sang psalms to rid pneumonia.

Q -- 
Could “q” make a racket? 
It’s only silent in racquet. 

R -- 
In San Bernardino, when you visit 
Next month, in February, 
Look up vernacular 
In the library. 

S -- 
The army corps you see in the aisle 
Are from an island they call an isle. 

T -- 
At Christmas, in the castle, if you whistle, 
You’ll get a buffet and catch a thistle. 

U -- 
Your four will build 
If you pour for the guild. 

V -- 
Very vexing as vampires’ teeth, 
Are the very few verbs with evasive “v”s. 

W -- 
The two who sew, named Wright, 
Can use their swords to write. 

X -- 
It is a serious faux-pas, you know,
To pronounce the “x” in the word “faux”. 

Y -- 
This one’s a stretch, but you know that “tan” 
Can be often rhymed with the word crayon. 

Z -- 
A rendezvous, I always wished, 
To be arranged with the man Liszt. 

It'd be wrong of me to mention "twelfth" as being an almost silent 'f' in a 'lf' combination.

Greg


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## Kae'Yoss (Nov 21, 2002)

AuraSeer said:
			
		

> *
> Wow, I bet Melf got the crap kicked out of him in grade school.  *




"What's your Name?"
"Petunia, with a 'L'"


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## Kamard (Nov 21, 2002)

Zhure said:
			
		

> *
> It'd be wrong of me to mention "twelfth" as being an almost silent 'f' in a 'lf' combination. *




Thats not the question.

The question was to come up with a word in the english language that is spelt: letter-e-l-f, that does not rhyme with self.

Not to find a word that ends with "th" that doesn't pronounce the f.


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## Zhure (Nov 21, 2002)

I didn't realize Melf was an american


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## IceBear (Nov 21, 2002)

Yeah, he fought in the War of Independence I think 

IceBear


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## Kamard (Nov 21, 2002)

Zhure said:
			
		

> *I didn't realize Melf was an american *






> Shin Okada
> Member
> 
> Registered: Jan 2002
> ...




I didn't realize the original poster may or may not speak English as his first language.

Rather than being a smart mouth giving fourteen different ways for something to be pronounced, lets try to give Shin one way to pronounce the word that is more or less correct for the most english-speakers.  Because I know I pronounce the word Melf "mel", like one of your options.


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## IceBear (Nov 21, 2002)

I pronounce it Melf as in "self" but replacing the "s" with a "m"

IceBear


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## Lucius Foxhound (Nov 21, 2002)

Actually, Melf is a real person.  He invented the Acid Arrow and went on to more fame. Here's Melf's web site.


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## Kae'Yoss (Nov 21, 2002)

There we have it: He likes travelling and getting to know other cultures. I think that's where he aquired that weird "petunia" pronounciation. But the site's not complete: he doesn't list "Zaubersrpüche erschaffen" amongst his hobbies and forgets to tell that he can speak arcane netherese in addition to English and French.....


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## 0-hr (Nov 21, 2002)

I actually was working under the assumption that Melf was a fictional character made up by someone from, or living in, Wisconsin. 

That was a good response though Zhure (although it seems to indicate that the only silent f in our language is found in the word "fifth"; which does not contain the substring "elf"). And actually, I don't think the f is really all that silent even in "fifth"...


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## Zhure (Nov 21, 2002)

- "fifth" is indeed a silent 'f' before the 't' but is often pronounced. The more correct pronunciation in American English leaves it unvoiced. (A non-silent second 'f' isn't incorrect, just less correct. If pluralized, that 'f' becomes unsilent again. English is wonky.)

- Shin's post count is deceptive. He knows my answer was facetious. 

- Made-up words, especially made-up names, can be pronounced a variety of ways, although the most difficulty is in the vowels.


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## The Souljourner (Nov 21, 2002)

Neither Twelfth nor Fifth have a silent f.  If you don't pronounce it, it's because you're pronouncing it incorrectly.  Of course if you pronounce twelfth correctly you may get a cramp in your tongue, but that's neither here nor there.

Now, Kamard gave good descriptions of the pronunciations of the names, though I pronounce a couple of them differently, none of his looked glaringly wrong.

These are the two I pronounce differently, caps represent the accent is on that vowel.

Evard - EH-vard
Mordenkainen - MORE-den-KANE-en

So... there you have it, names of wizards as typical americans would pronounce them.  Is that the correct way? Who knows?  Only the people who came up with the names can actually say what is correct and what is not.

-The Souljourner


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## Zhure (Nov 21, 2002)

Fifth has a silent 'f'. Check the primary pronunciation in a dictionary.

Shin - check Dragon magazine 93, page 22-30 for specifics. I'll look up the names you requested and post them soon.

Greg


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## The Souljourner (Nov 21, 2002)

Evidently either pronunciation of fifth is correct...

Merriam Webster gives these pronunciations:

'fith, 'fif(t)th, 'fift

dictionary.com gives fifth

*shrug*

-The Souljourner


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## Zhure (Nov 21, 2002)

As per Dragon Magazine, 93

Bigby - not listed
Drawmij - not listed
Evard - not listed
Leomund - LEE-o-mund
Melf - not listed
Mordenkainen - MOR-den-kay-nen
Nystul - NY-stul or NIS-tul
Otiluke - O-ti-look
Rary - not listed
Tasha - not listed
Tenser - TEN-sur

Sorry, that's the best I was able to locate.
Greg


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## med stud (Nov 21, 2002)

I think it takes a Fin (or whatever a Finnish person is called) to get the "right" pronounciation of Mordenkainen, as it is taken from a Finnish epos.

But really, I cant say why the pronounciation should matter.


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## Shin Okada (Nov 21, 2002)

*Why Japanese people want to know the pronunciation*

I am a Japanese and not a native speaker of English.

And Japanese RPG fans are always arguing how to pronounce certain proper noun in American games.

Why? First of all, we are not using alphabets. So we cannot just write down those alphabets and let each guys read as they like. We must write those names in Japanese phonogram. And Japanese phonogram (called Hiragana & Katakana) are very strict in pronunciation. So without knowing pronunciation of one's name, we cannot writ it down and show it to other Japanese people.

Anyway, thank you guys for giving me information.

And, please continue to write down more if you know any other information about this topic.


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## Shin Okada (Nov 21, 2002)

Zhure said:
			
		

> *As per Dragon Magazine, 93
> 
> Nystul - NY-stul or NIS-tul
> 
> *




Well, when Americans write as "stul" or "tul", is it suggested to read in A sound like "stull" or "stultify"? Or shall I read in U sound like "tule" or "tulle"? Or maybe I shall read in J sound like "tulip"....


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## doktorstick (Nov 21, 2002)

The Souljourner said:
			
		

> *Neither Twelfth nor Fifth have a silent f.  If you don't pronounce it, it's because you're pronouncing it incorrectly.  Of course if you pronounce twelfth correctly you may get a cramp in your tongue, but that's neither here nor there.*




Hrm.  People that pronounce the 'f' in 'fifth' are being pretentious.  Much like those that pronounce the 't' in 'often'. 

/ds


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## Kamard (Nov 22, 2002)

Shin Okada said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, when Americans write as "stul" or "tul", is it suggested to read in A sound like "stull" or "stultify"? Or shall I read in U sound like "tule" or "tulle"? Or maybe I shall read in J sound like "tulip".... *




I would say "stull" and "tull" would work just fine in those cases.


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## Negative Zero (Nov 22, 2002)

doktorstick said:
			
		

> *Hrm.  People that pronounce the 'f' in 'fifth' are being pretentious.  *




perhaps, but they're also _correct_. (twelfth as well)



> Much like those that pronounce the 't' in 'often'.




actually, those people are in fact wrong. the correct pronunciation has the "t" silent. (little known fact)

now, all of that said, i AM somewhat of a pretentious snob about English, despite the fact that it's more of a written language than it is a spoken one. but none of that changes the fact that Americans do *NOT*,for the most part speak English. which i suppose isn't so bad considering that most british people don't either. 

[WAY OT rant]
except that, it really irks me then the supposedly correct pronunciation of "Connecticut" omitts the middle "C". to the point where the friggin bus driver doesn't even _understand_ what i mean when i pronounce all three of them!
[/WAY OT rant]

  

~NegZ


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## Zhure (Nov 22, 2002)

Shin Okada said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, when Americans write as "stul" or "tul", is it suggested to read in A sound like "stull" or "stultify"? Or shall I read in U sound like "tule" or "tulle"? Or maybe I shall read in J sound like "tulip".... *




I think when Roger Moore wrote that article he meant "stul" to rhyme with "bull."

Greg


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## thegreatbuddha (Nov 22, 2002)

Connecticut is not an English word, so it makes sense that it does not follow archetypal English pronunciation.

As to my shot at pronouncing the names, here goes:

Tenser  "TEN sir"
Nystul    "NIS tul" (rhymes with pistol)
Tasha    "TA -sha" (vowel sound same as "stop" for both syllables)
Melf        "MELF"  (rhymes with elf)
Leomund  "LEE o mund"  (like Sea boat under)
Evard    "i vard"  (like in dark)
Otiluke   "O ti luke"  (can't think of a good phonetic aid there, sorry)
Rary   "RARE EE"
Mordenkainen  MORE den KIGH NEN  (like more then high end)
Bigby    BIG bee
Drawmij   Draw  midge   (like draw fridge)

I hope that helped, and if my attempt to aid your enunciation with common English words didn't help in and of itself, you can at least run them through an online dictionary to guide yourself to the proper enunciation.


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## Mahali (Nov 22, 2002)

*Couldn't resist.*

If you're not a native English speaker good luck with these.

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does strange things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong for us to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?


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## Tom Cashel (Nov 22, 2002)

*No problem*

Tenser=TEEN-ser 
Nystul=NYGHT-stool 
Melf=MEE-elf 
Tasha=Tuh-SHAH 
Leomund=LUND (silent "eom")
Evard=EEV-a-rid 
Otiluke=OH-til-YOOKUH 
Rary=RARE-eye 
Mordenkainen=Mor-DEN-kuh-nin 
Bigby=Big-BYE 
Drawmij=DRAW-mee-ih-jay

I sure hope that helps.


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## 0-hr (Nov 22, 2002)

*Re: Couldn't resist.*



			
				Mahali said:
			
		

> *If you're not a native English speaker good luck with these. *



 What I find really interesting is how, as a native english speaker, I could instantly get the correct pronunciation even before completing the sentence. It's amazing what context can do for you.

But anyway, with regards to "often", the American Heritage online dictionary (http://www.bartleby.com/61/) lists the t as optional in pronunciation and has an extra note on the matter:


> _
> During the 15th century English experienced a widespread loss of certain consonant sounds within consonant clusters, as the (d) in handsome and handkerchief, the (p) in consumption and raspberry, and the (t) in chestnut and often. In this way the consonant clusters were simplified and made easier to articulate. With the rise of public education and literacy and, consequently, people's awareness of spelling in the 19th century, sounds that had become silent sometimes were restored, as is the case with the t in often, which is now frequently pronounced. In other similar words, such as soften and listen, the t generally remains silent._


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## GuardianLurker (Nov 22, 2002)

*Re: Why Japanese people want to know the pronunciation*



			
				Shin Okada said:
			
		

> *So without knowing pronunciation of one's name, we cannot writ it down and show it to other Japanese people.
> 
> Anyway, thank you guys for giving me information.
> 
> And, please continue to write down more if you know any other information about this topic. *




Digging back to my Linguistics 101 course....

In American, there is a strong preference for "short" vowels, especially interior vowels. Though beware dipthongs like the 'io' in 'interior'.

Actually, in American, two vowels together are usually a dipthong. 

If you have a standard American dictionary, it should include a phonetic pronounication guide with the word's definition, with a description of the symbols up front.


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## Tyrrell (Nov 22, 2002)

> Hrm. People that pronounce the 'f' in 'fifth' are being pretentious. Much like those that pronounce the 't' in 'often'.



I have a dificult time pronouncing the word "fifth without the second f.  I'm of the opinion that people who pronounce the second f in the word are using the standard pronunciation that they learned as a child, while people who do not are engaging in typical adolescent behaivior by trying to show how apathetic (and thus for some reason "cool") they are.


> 12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.



I would have prounced row the same in both instances. How do you thinbk it should be pronounced?


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## Tyrrell (Nov 22, 2002)

> Hrm. People that pronounce the 'f' in 'fifth' are being pretentious. Much like those that pronounce the 't' in 'often'.



I have a dificult time pronouncing the word "fifth without the second f.  I'm of the opinion that people who pronounce the second f in the word are using the standard pronunciation that they learned as a child, while people who do not are engaging in adolescent behaivior by trying to show how apathetic (and thus for some reason "cool") they are, or posess such an incredible abundance of lazyness and indeifference to being understood that they couldn't be bothered to move their lower lip1/2 a centimeter to be understood.  (Your milage may vary but that's how you'd sound to me.  a Minnesotan)


> 12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.



I would have prounced row the same in both instances. How do you thinbk it should be pronounced?


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## Berk (Nov 22, 2002)

> 18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.




according to american heritage, websters, word net, and a few other dictionaries that I have, can't remember the names of them cuz their covers are completely ripped apart, the way you used the second number is incorrect. Number just means number as you would think it would mean, ie. the number 1. It doesn't mean to become more numb. Now I'm not an english major or teacher or anything like that and personally I think the english language is one of the worst ever, specially since we americans got our hands on it =op, but I could be wrong. I just haven't ever seen number used like that before in all of my life living in an english speaking country.


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## Mahali (Nov 23, 2002)

Tyrrell said:
			
		

> * I would have prounced row the same in both instances. How do you thinbk it should be pronounced? *




The first "row" is pronounced like rau (wow with an R in front).


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## jgbrowning (Nov 23, 2002)

i'd pronounce the wizard's names any damn way you want to.  English is your language too.  Mangle it like the rest of us do!

joe b.


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## thegreatbuddha (Nov 23, 2002)

Tyrell, why is someone who pronounces fifth like "fith" apathetic and acting in typical adolescent fashion?  They most likely say it because fith is much easier to say than fifth.  Region also has a part in it.  Being from Kentucky originally, I know how hard it is to overcome a Southern accent when living with Yankees.  When I speak, I drop *a lot* of letters, because that is how I was brought up to speak.  The example that comes to mind is "Haan me dat fith o Jack."  Properly enunciated, it would be "Hand me that fifth of Jack."  I can say it that way, but only if I concentrate on it, which becomes a headache if done for more than a few sentences, and it seems completely unnatural to anyone who has heard me speak before (My accenty is 1/2 southern, 1/4 midwest, and 1/4 horribly botched Brooklyn).  

On a side note, I couldn't care less about the English language, since neither I nor anyone I know speaks it.  I speak American, which is a separate language unto its own, whether or not the scholarly types regard it as such.


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## Marshall (Nov 23, 2002)

thegreatbuddha said:
			
		

> *(My accenty is 1/2 southern, 1/4 midwest, and 1/4 horribly botched Brooklyn).
> 
> *




There is no "midwest" accent. We speak the language normally and everyone else botches it up. 

Seriously, The difference between just Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan residents is astounding. Conglomerating them all into "midwest" is like saying the scots and irish have the British accent.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Nov 26, 2002)

*I am the master of words; words are not the masters of me. *
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How's that for pretentiousness?  

(Yes, I'm allowed to plagiarize a random caterpillar.)


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