# [OOC] OOC thread about the non-iconics adventure (part deux)



## HeavyG (Mar 7, 2002)

This is an out-of-character thread to discuss the non-iconics adventure.

Which is here.

Everybody's welcome to comment.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 7, 2002)

has everyone put their character in the new Rogue's Gallery thread?
Heavy, you wanna add the link to the characters at the top of the threads?

I'm a bit too busy at work thru friday - oncve done, I'll update everything, level up and such...


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 7, 2002)

Heavy G - I'll be out of town for a few days (Sun - ?), so I may and may not be able to post.  You shouldn't have any real problem running Kytess, if we come to something.


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## Thanee (Mar 8, 2002)

If you want to go to the Rogues Gallery thread, you can always use the link in Taz' signature!

Bye
Thanee


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 10, 2002)

Sorry for the delay, I'm going out for about 2 hrs. then i'll post Sollir's updated stats.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 11, 2002)

Ubaar has been granted more power in the fight against and evil and FOR surviving the tough fights! 

Level: +1 Cleric
BAB: +1
Feat: Extra Rage
Skills: 2 in Concentration


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 11, 2002)

Forgot to say, posted and updated my stats:

+1 level in Fighter
+1 BAB
Feats: Weapon Finesse (Dagger)-making my dagger attack bonus +8 (without any masterwork dagger), and Improved Initiative (+9 initiative now)


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 14, 2002)

Sorry for the delay - I've been gone.  I'm also a little busy at work (like HeavyG), so I may not post much...


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## reapersaurus (Mar 16, 2002)

ouch.
It kinda is painful to see all these IC threads so active, while we - the original non-iconic adventuring squad, are relegated to being lost in the shuffle of fun and adventuring that we helped to create. 

Ah, well.. I'm just feeling a bit reflective today...


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 16, 2002)

Heh, don't worry Reaper, when Heavy G gets back I'm pretty sure we'll be a bit more active.


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## Murhid (Mar 16, 2002)

Yeah, I feel it to reaper... 


Oh and Good Luck to CR in the election !


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## HeavyG (Mar 17, 2002)

Which election  ?


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## Murhid (Mar 17, 2002)

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7138

Just under EricNoah


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## HeavyG (Mar 18, 2002)

Wow.  I should visit the main discussion forum more often.


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## HeavyG (Mar 18, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Heh, don't worry Reaper, when Heavy G gets back I'm pretty sure we'll be a bit more active. *




As soon as the party decides on a destination, off you'll go...


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## reapersaurus (Mar 18, 2002)

normally, in this situation, I'd have Ubaar wait in his normal "adventuring order" before advancing, but we don't have a concensus of players here helping decide our group's actions.

BTW: What is the normal adventuring order, again?
As I remember, Ivellios was going to move from the front to somewhere else?
I guess we don't have any true pointman-character, do we?
No ones got very good stealth or perception skills, and Ivellios and Ubaar are likely to charge forward if we sense an enemy.  

Would Taz or Sollir have the best skills? But they probably shouldn't ever be in front.
Has everyone put their character in the Rogue's Gallery?


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## Murhid (Mar 19, 2002)

Well concerning a 'point man', after Taz (Sollir doesn't have his skills up) Murhid has the best Move Silently check, of +9, and Listen +8. But can't see in the dark... tsk tsk petty human

Though, I say we should have one of the more 'robust & responsible' people at the front, Kytess or Jalon. We might get heard, but if we do, I think we can handle it.

And I think everyone has at least posted stat blocks of there characters in Rogue's Gallery


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## reapersaurus (Mar 19, 2002)

that sounds qualified enough to me, Murhid - why don't you switch with Ivellios...   do you remember where you were in the pack?

If i get a chance , I'll try to look for it in the collected thread, but it's kinda a needle in a haystack -  anyone remember the order?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 19, 2002)

I have them up, they're just totally pathetic , int of 8 when taking class levels in classes that give you 2+int mod skills...


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## Murhid (Mar 19, 2002)

lol Sollir, didn't see 'em 

k reaper, I'll start taking a more scout/point man role (quiet YAY to self)


edit: I think I was in the middle somewhere, that's my best guess


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## turtle (Mar 19, 2002)

your adventure is interesting... i hope ours turns out!


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## reapersaurus (Mar 19, 2002)

turtle - are you readin our adventure at all?
we never hear from anyone else excpet for one guy occasionally, i think. 

If anyone's reading this adventure, do you think you could pipe up with a quick hello and/or give any thoughts about memorable parts of our adventuring, or things that you like/dislike?

and turtle - you are one of the players in Mark's Darkness and Light adventure, right?
Mark seems very capable - I'm sure it will be a great read.
I seem to remember you guys stating the intention of playing just a straight adventure on your first posts? (not a psionic, or anime, or star wars, etc)
Our Non-Iconic Adventure is just such a game, and I thought it was funny it wasn't mentioned..


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## turtle (Mar 19, 2002)

i read through the new one and now i've started reading the 3rd part... the stuff in the pub is pretty funny... now the .5orc is talking to a priest...


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## Murhid (Mar 19, 2002)

That's cool to know, Good Luck with D&L !


HG - did we end up resting? (That was when the witch was burning)


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## Conaill (Mar 19, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *If anyone's reading this adventure, do you think you could pipe up with a quick hello and/or give any thoughts about memorable parts of our adventuring, or things that you like/dislike?
> *




I'm still here. Still lurking. I'm also following the Iconics adventure and the Game of Death...


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## HeavyG (Mar 19, 2002)

Murhid said:
			
		

> * HG - did we end up resting? (That was when the witch was burning) *




You rested for a few hours while Taz read the journal/spellbook.

This isn't enough to regain hit points or anything.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 19, 2002)

Ya!
Conaill's the guy!  

Have you been lurking from the beginning?
Either way, that's pretty cool that you've been reading so long.
I seem to remember you mentioned awhile back some impressions.
I'm wondering: do you play in any of the IC threads?
You seem to have a great interest in the adventuring - if you aren't playing in one already, you should try it out.


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## Conaill (Mar 19, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Have you been lurking from the beginning?
> Either way, that's pretty cool that you've been reading so long.*



I can't say I've been following you guys from the very beginning, but I think I've seen most of it. It's been lots of fun!



> *I'm wondering: do you play in any of the IC threads?
> You seem to have a great interest in the adventuring - if you aren't playing in one already, you should try it out.  *




Nah. I already waste enough time procrastinating, reading the ENworld and WotC boards and playing in two bi-weekly campaigns. If I got involved in one of the online campaigns, I wouldn't get *anything* done.


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## Murhid (Mar 20, 2002)

Hope I didn't go on to far without consent from Ubaar then, did I reaper? If you wanted us all (or someone else) to go down I'll just edit my post. Just thought I'd be a bit more active.

Oh and congrats to CR !


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## reapersaurus (Mar 20, 2002)

Murhid said:
			
		

> *Hope I didn't go on to far without consent from Ubaar then, did I reaper? If you wanted us all (or someone else) to go down I'll just edit my post. Just thought I'd be a bit more active.
> 
> Oh and congrats to CR !  *



I think being active is better.
You go right on ahead.

and did CR win? Congrats!


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 20, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *and did CR win? Congrats!*




http://www.d20reviews.com/ennies2002.htm

I'm on top of the world.


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## Thanee (Mar 20, 2002)

Congratulations! Be a nice and fair judge! 

BTW, isn't Teflon Billy's story sad? I mean, WotC stock from before the M:tG release!? Wow!

Bye
Thanee


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## reapersaurus (Mar 21, 2002)

Doppleganger - check out this thread:  http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&postid=112091#post112091
i tried to poke a bit of levity into character-vs-character spats.


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 21, 2002)

I just did a size comparison on Murhid and Kytess I thought you might want to see...

I used a different image for Kytess, as I needed a full-body shot.  This one isn't bad, either, except for the weaponry (no chain, sword in wrong place).

Murhid's *big*!


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## Conaill (Mar 21, 2002)

They call him... Murhid Man-Mountain!


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## reapersaurus (Mar 21, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Murhid's big! *



Ubaar's an inch *bigger*.

I know..  its bad..  i couldn't help having a bit of fun.
A smile's better than not.


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 21, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Ubaar's an inch bigger.*




And 20 lbs. heavier, IIRC.  He's also stronger, so he'd look a bit more imposing.

I didn't have a suitable picture of Ubaar, as the mini pic wouldn't do him justice for these purposes.


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## HeavyG (Mar 22, 2002)

Very cool, CRG !

This puts things in perspective.


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## Murhid (Mar 22, 2002)

OMG !!


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## Doppleganger (Mar 22, 2002)

Here ya go, with Ubaar!


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## Murhid (Mar 22, 2002)

Dam. Ubaar has big shoes, you know what they say about people with big shoes dont ya? ... Big feet  

Nice pic Doppleganger, what's it from ?


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## reapersaurus (Mar 22, 2002)

that's a pretty damn cool half-orc pic, Dopp!
where'd you get it?
I haven't found any that are better than that, though i've been kinda looking since we started...


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## HeavyG (Mar 22, 2002)

Now all you need is to add two halflings, a priest of Tyr and your character.


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 22, 2002)

I feel so small... 

I've been updating my versions of your characters' stats, and noticed a few things; they're at the bottom of the Rogue's Gallery.  That's just Reaper and Dopp at the moment.


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## Conaill (Mar 22, 2002)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> *Now all you need is to add two halflings, a priest of Tyr and your character.  *




OOh yes! We wanna see a group picture!!


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## Doppleganger (Mar 22, 2002)

Ask and ye shall receive!


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## Doppleganger (Mar 22, 2002)

Updated in last post...


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## Thanee (Mar 22, 2002)

Very cool, Doppleganger, very cool, indeed! 

Sollir's a giant!  [EDIT: Ok, has been fixed.]

I have failed to find a decent pic of an Owl to incorporate it into Taz' signature and this one is rather nice! Might try to fit it in eventually.

If you have some more Owl pics, probably colored, gimme some links, please! 



> I've been updating my versions of your characters' stats, and noticed a few things; they're at the bottom of the Rogue's Gallery. That's just Reaper and Dopp at the moment.




What's that mean CRG? *shrug*

Guess I'll find out by looking into the Rogue's Gallery! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Conaill (Mar 22, 2002)

Tres cool indeed! 

Hey CRG, just a suggestion: please add this pic to your first post in the Rogues Gallery thread!


Just some observations and nitpicks: 

- My my, Taz is _tiny_ 

- Sollir, if anything, is drawn a little large. I didn't see any height stats for hime, but he's scaled to be about 3'8" in the pic. That's well above the max height for a male halfling (3'6").

- Ubaar (and Murhid, for that matter) is at the very top range for height for his race. I guess all half-orc PCs are statistically speaking above average  (face it, when's the last time you saw someone play a half-orc who was rather short for his race?)

- I had always imagined Jalon to be somewhat more... pudgy.


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 22, 2002)

Conaill said:
			
		

> *I guess all half-orc PCs are statistically speaking above average  (face it, when's the last time you saw someone play a half-orc who was rather short for his race?)*




In a campaign I run in RL.  Orcs average 5' abd half-orcs (favoring their human parent's size) average 5'6".  The half-orc barbarian was 5'4".

Edit: I don't see a way to retroactively attach a picture.


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## Doppleganger (Mar 22, 2002)

OK, I shrank Sollir down a bit more.

These are all (modified) pics from various official sites (mostly from WOTC) that I found online at some point.  Except for Kytess which appears to be drawn by a fan.  But I did take the liberty of wrapping her in some spiked chains from the Player's Handbook


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## Conaill (Mar 22, 2002)

Doppleganger said:
			
		

> *OK, I shrank Sollir down a bit more.
> *




Heh. I love the way Ubaar seems to be saying "Get off of my foot!" 

Yeah, I noticed the chain. Nice touch. Did Jalon's player ever suggest a pic for his character?


Hey CRG, you should be able to add an image using IMG vB code tags. I Just tried it with this post, and it worked.

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/misc.php?s=&action=bbcode


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 22, 2002)

I know how to add an [ IMG] to a post, but the picture isn't really hosted anywhere - unless you want me to use the attached picture's temporary URL!


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## Doppleganger (Mar 22, 2002)

Conail-
I opted for a more intimidating Jalon pic, since the way he brandishes that deadly longsword sort of throws the prototypical cleric image out the window!

CR- 
It looks like you can't edit in an attachment to a previous post.  But, you _can_ edit to replace an attachment with a new one.  But also, if you _delete_ an attachment, you can never replace it with anything again!


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## Conaill (Mar 22, 2002)

Ah! Yes, that's exactly what I did. Guess that _should_ work, right? As long as this thread is around, I don't see why the temporary URL should change. If anything, it'd be interesting to see what we break.


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 22, 2002)

I think the temporary URL just changed... see above.


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## Murhid (Mar 23, 2002)

Wow great stuff !!

Though I agree about Jalon. The following are some pictures that Seraph (Jalon), I think liked.

<here> - the guy in the middle
and
<here> - has no long sword though

However there is a big Copyright thing'o there...   Maybe Seraph should email the artist.


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## Doppleganger (Mar 23, 2002)

Hmm. OK, hold on a sec and I'll put in one of those Jalons...

Done!


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## reapersaurus (Mar 23, 2002)

I'm out to a movie, and only have a second, but i just wanted to say i think that is a REALLY cool team pic!
Dopp, the seamless way you're adding stuff in there is quite impressive.
Especially adding the spiked chain to Kytess.


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## Thanee (Mar 23, 2002)

Man, Jalon looks like an elf on that pic, not quite appropriate! 

How about adding the longsword to the other one, Murhid has linked, that has a more sincere look to it!

Doppleganger, maybe try the lightfoot halfling pic from FRCS p.17 (racial line-up) for Taz, I think that one looks much better! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 23, 2002)

Off-Topic, Reaper, if you still want to join the In Search for Heroes game, your spot is in, just post a char/idea there to get things started, games starting pretty soon though.


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## Doppleganger (Mar 24, 2002)

Alrighty, I put the FRCS halfling into the pic.  I transferred the sword from Jalon#2 to the new Jalon #3, and put him in too.


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## Murhid (Mar 24, 2002)

Very nicely done Dopp !

We sure are a diverse group


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## Doppleganger (Mar 24, 2002)

Updated below.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 24, 2002)

*wonders if he can use paint to add in a crudely drawn wand of cure light wounds in his picture, since he seems to be using it more than his bow anyways...* , jk, I like it, Sollir is a bit smaller than that, just a tiny bit bigger than Taz...


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## Thanee (Mar 24, 2002)

Yep, but I actually think, that Taz should be a little bigger to fix this.

And you could change Jalons sword mirror around the up-town axis, if you like. Might look better on him! 

Bye
Thanee


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 24, 2002)

You see,  we don't actually play in a PBP, we just talk about it.  The IC thread is just for show.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 24, 2002)

Lol , if Taz gets bigger then you can leave Sollir the way he is.  Btw my skills are there, Spot is +3.5, Spellcraft is +0 (as opposed from -1)

Edit-I did tell you my skills sucked


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## Doppleganger (Mar 24, 2002)

Hmm. OK, I reversed Jalon's sword, and gave Taz a small sip from a _Potion of Enlarge_.


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## Jalon Odessa (Mar 24, 2002)

Ooh, very nice work on the image, Dopp.  I think Jalon's gonna have an inferiority complex being surrounded by such giants as Murhid and Ubaar.

Come to think of it, nah... I don't think Jalon could ever feel inferior around anyone.  

And sorry I haven't posted in awhile guys - had some unexpected matters in RL that needed to be addressed.


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm doing something fairly major IC.  Kytess will need Jalon's help at the very least; some luck would go a long way, too.  External problems are the least of our worries.

Edit: The can of worms is open.  I hope this goes right!


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## Murhid (Mar 24, 2002)

Oh fun this sounds interesting  Good luck !


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## reapersaurus (Mar 24, 2002)

hmm..  strange time to try something like that, CR...   bored?   

Dopp - again, great job with the pics, and i totally had a scene flash thru my mind of Ubaar rushing up to Ivellios and pushing him against a wall, snarling in his face, like in a movie, but I thought that would be pushing it (pun intended).

So I'll again have Ubaar try the verbal way of convincing.. with a smidgen of menace at the end for good flavor.  

Actually, Ivellios is right - Ubaar has had to deal with the almost-racist Jalon using the 'half-breed' term (tho I'm not sure if he used it in Ivellios' presence), and Ubaar's already resigned himself to some of the people, even the ones he fights with, are blinded to certain truths just as the rest of society are.

Plus, theatrical actions like that are invariably broken down into initiatives and rounds...


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## Murhid (Mar 24, 2002)

> Ubaar annoyedly pays attention to the cryptic monk - "And what are you babbling about, 'Quiet One?"!?



Gee I'm so tempted to insult Ubaar right now  lol


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## reapersaurus (Mar 24, 2002)

Murhid said:
			
		

> *Gee I'm so tempted to insult Ubaar right now  lol *



Go ahead!
The purpose of me having Ubaar snap at Murhid is 3 fold:
1) To reflect that Ubaar has been listening
2) To show that Murhid's confusing statements are not exactly clear to everyone.
3) To try and get more involvement from the reserved monk.


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## Murhid (Mar 24, 2002)

I think large one is as adventuress as Murhid is going to get, in terms of insulting a man one inch taller than himself 

Hrm...

 - Does anyone else wish to use colors to distinguish speech? I rather like it, though think if everyone has different colors it starts to look a little over the top. 
 - So do you mind Ubaar if i use the same color as u have been, to distinguish speech?

Another note: when I'm writing posts for Murhid I keep having to write 'Murhid then' or 'He then' or 'subsequently'. And it's really starting to pee me off..... Any idea’s on ways to get around the use off all that?  And also any suggestions for making posts seem a little more… I dunno, roleplay-ish-ly-ness would be great.

Oh also (we're use Oh too much )
|
|
v (points to sig)


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## Murhid (Mar 24, 2002)

Bah me not editing my last post...

 was meant to be   and  use was meant to be using....

*breaks down and cries* I edit too much

I've made it that Murhid shall never use the word "I" to describe himself, thus oneself


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## Thanee (Mar 24, 2002)

GREAT WORK Doppleganger! 

Hope my little commented changes weren't too annoying, hehe! 

Bye
Thanee


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## HeavyG (Mar 24, 2002)

Ooooh,

Kytess the Peacemaker.

Can't wait to see how it turns out...


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 24, 2002)

I love the image of Kytess blocking the door, despite barely coming past Ubaar and Murhid's waists. 

Kytess isn't good at brokering peace agreements.  Still, she sees the need for order, especially here.  She does what she can.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 24, 2002)

hmmm....    very interesting.

my thoughts: 
CR - so can i assume that it is unacceptable to have party infighting on an on-going basis anymore?

If so, than I'm wondering if Dopp's character concept for Ivellios can transform itself to accept Ubaar, a half-orc.
As far as I can see, Dopp has chosen to have Ivellios continue with his racist ways, and see people only as colors of skin. He has repeatedly made clear that your race defines your personality, and spirit.

So Dopp - it seems like your concept from the beginnning has been to have a close-minded, racist elf in the party, thereby a constant source of inter-party friction.

I've come to accept that, and I can keep roleplaying with that, if you want.
I wonder though if accepting Ubaar as an equal, or companion, would be compromising your character concept too much?


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 24, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *CR - so can i assume that it is unacceptable to have party infighting on an on-going basis anymore?*




*Shrug*  It's unacceptable to Kytess.  She would have brought it up earlier, but I didn't find a good time until now.  There are a number of ways this could go; I'm curous to see what results.

Kytess would like Ubaar and Ivellios to work better together, or leave; she would prefer leaders in the following order:
Murhid
Kytess
Jalon
Taz
Sollir
Ubaar
Ivellios

As a player, I'm less concerned about harmless name-calling than Kytess is - she sees it as a direct danger to our ability to fight as a group, and thus our lives.
*I* would like both Ivellios and Ubaar to stay in the group, and would like leaders in the following order:
Jalon
Kytess
Murhid
?

If this turns out to be an explosive issue to the players, we can solve it OOC, but I'd rather solve it IC (as always).


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## reapersaurus (Mar 24, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *I love the image of Kytess blocking the door, despite barely coming past Ubaar and Murhid's waists.
> 
> Kytess isn't good at brokering peace agreements.  Still, she sees the need for order, especially here.  She does what she can. *



ya, the only thing better would be if little Taz suddenly blocked the door from everyone's passage.   LOL

Why would Kytess have chosen NOW to make this stand?
As far as order is concerned, you're not gonna get much support from Ubaar on that end....  he sees nothing wrong with chaos.  

Truthfully, though, if I was playing Ubaar totally to character all the time, I probably would have him not support Jalon's leadership that much, since (as I understand) Jalon does kind of represent the status quo - the same status quo which keeps his people from being accepted.

Ubaar would probably like not having a leader- just a group of peers who are together for mutual benefit and protection.
If Jalon went too far with insisting leadership, Ubaar would rebel, saying "You're not my _toishach!_"  (chieftain)

Having to follow orders stifles individual creativity too much...  
...following orders is a hallmark of an inefficient society.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 24, 2002)

In character, Ubaar would not follow anyone but Jalon or Kytess.

They are the only ones other than he and Ivellios that have proven any kind of combat prowess, in his eyes. (and he obviously wouldn't accept Ivellios in a leadership role)

Out of character, i really don't care, other than it must make SOME semblance of sense in-character.


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## Murhid (Mar 24, 2002)

lol, stop picking on Taz ! She's the same CR as you don't forget !

In character Murhid would only find Jalon's leadership acceptable, but would as well rebel like Ubaar if it went too far. The rest of the group doesn't have enough charisma and wisdom to be leader figures.

Out of character, I don't really think we need a leader, but we do need some kind of order.


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 24, 2002)

OOC, I don't know that we need either a leader or mroe order than we've had - but try arguing that to Kytess.

I think Iv's last post should close, if not resolve, the issue.


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## Jalon Odessa (Mar 25, 2002)

Although Jalon's character is well-suited to a leadership role, I'd be uncomfortable if he was made the formal leader of the group.  I don't think it's necessary from either in in or out-of-character standpoint to have a designated leader in such a situation.  I haven't been pushing the role of leader onto him for that reason - although Jalon would relish the job of group leader, I personally wouldn't.

In-character, however, Jalon already considers himself to be the leader, as I've said in the past.  The thought had never crossed his mind that the others weren't aware of this, and the notion that someone else should be 'in-command' is utterly alien to him.  He's a follower of Tyr, god of justice - he's used to people trusting his judgements unfailingly or facing the consequences.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 25, 2002)

oh - can anyone recommend any good reading for 2E FR material for background information on the Realms that would pertain for this adventure (or secondarily, for others)?


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## Doppleganger (Mar 25, 2002)

I can't help you there.  In the FR setting I've read the Icewind Dale Trilogy, the Moonshae Trilogy, the Shandril Saga books, the Finder's Stone Trilogy, and the Maztica Trilogy.  And I can safely report to you that none of them have a whole lot to do with the Dragon Coast area.

On the other hand, if you haven't read the (Greyhawk setting) books by Paul Kidd yet, do so!  (White Plume Mtn, Descent to the Depths of the Earth, & Queen of the Demonweb Pits).  They are by far the best TSR/WOTC books I've ever read.  The main character "Justicar" is similar to Jalon, and the sidekick pixie "Escalla" sort of reminds me of Taz for some reason.  The books are not only well-written, but hilarious too!


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## Doppleganger (Mar 25, 2002)

Oh, and if you just meant reference & rules material - the 3E FRCS is pretty darn good for background info on just about anything FR related.


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## Murhid (Mar 25, 2002)

Cool, Dopp can you recommend any of the FR novels you listed as good? I'm also seeking some FR novels to read... 

Come to think of it I'll also take up your suggestion on the Paul Kid novels.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 25, 2002)

ya, i was actually referring to just rules and reference material...
2E stuff in particular.
"The North" has been helpful, and I just found "Waterdeep and the North"
any others?


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## HeavyG (Mar 25, 2002)

Murhid said:
			
		

> *Cool, Dopp can you recommend any of the FR novels you listed as good? I'm also seeking some FR novels to read...
> 
> Come to think of it I'll also take up your suggestion on the Paul Kid novels. *




Well, I'm no Dopp, but I second the Paul Kidd suggestion.


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## HeavyG (Mar 25, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *ya, i was actually referring to just rules and reference material...
> 2E stuff in particular.
> "The North" has been helpful, and I just found "Waterdeep and the North"
> any others? *




- This particular adventure is generic which means nothing but the appropriate Dungeon magazine will help you.

- Seems like you already found the material relating to Uthgar barbarian territory.

- There might be a sourcebook on the Dragon Coast, but since I don't have it, any information you found in there would be pretty useless and not applicable to this game.

- I don't know what else might apply to your character or this game...


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## Thanee (Mar 25, 2002)

I'm gone til friday! Just continue as normal, but Taz will be a little more quiet than normal and just tag along with the group!  Autopilot her, if desperately needed, but otherwise she can probably just keep out of any fighting that might break out.

Bye
Thanee


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## Murhid (Mar 26, 2002)

Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to kill the role-playing and all.

IC: Murhid is there to do a job, and the trivial conflict between the two uncivilized ones concerns him not, especially in the middle of an underground monastery.

So again I'm sorry if you had a lot more role-playing in mind CR, hope I didn't kill it.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 26, 2002)

actually, Murhid, my impression was that you DID kill it.

It's really too bad, in my opinion, that you chose to play a character who is absolutely anti-role-playing.
Like i mentioned before, it is very difficult to have any interaction at all with Murhid, due to his personality.  

I personally have never met a monk character that made it easy to interact with them, but I'm sure someday I'll meet a monk character concept that enhances the roleplaying aspect of gaming?

This post is meant with complete straightforward honesty, to spur discussion, and no derogatory put-downing intended.

edit: 







			
				Murhid said:
			
		

> *IC: Murhid is there to do a job, and the trivial conflict between the two uncivilized ones concerns him not, especially in the middle of an underground monastery. *



unfortunately, those are not trivial concerns, and as Ivellios correctly said, it was not Ivellios OR Ubaar who caused it to be a concern in this instance.

actually, i was going to have Ubaar say a comment about Murhid, something like "you sure seem impatient for a monk.
What, gotta have all action, all the time?"
but i didn't think it would be in-character for Ubaar...   LOL

Thanee - you can't have Taz even stand up for herself once?
I guess Ubaar's attempts to make the little ones stronger, and less likely to be taken advantage of, are doomed to failure...


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## HeavyG (Mar 26, 2002)

Thanee said:
			
		

> *I'm gone til friday!  *




What a coincidence !  So will I !

I may have time to post tomorrow, then it'll be until saturday.




			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *actually, Murhid, my impression was that you DID kill it. *




Please feel free to continue the discussion now that the room is explored and it is revealed that there is no danger inside.

You don't need me for that !


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 26, 2002)

Murhid said:
			
		

> *Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to kill the role-playing and all.
> 
> IC: Murhid is there to do a job, and the trivial conflict between the two uncivilized ones concerns him not, especially in the middle of an underground monastery.
> 
> So again I'm sorry if you had a lot more role-playing in mind CR, hope I didn't kill it. *




Wow, let me try to translate that statement:
"I'm sorry for role-playing my character.  If you'd like, I'll stop so you can talk more." 

Murhid's no-nonsense attitude is his major positive quality, as far as Kytess is concerned.  It is one of the only things that lets her get beyond her "shell".  If you drop that, you'll make it very hard for me to show Kytess as anything *but* a hard-nosed warrior.

Having said that, the biggest issue with Kytess at the moment is the sword she gave to Jalon.  That could have interesting effects...


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## Murhid (Mar 26, 2002)

Bah, what Kytess said 

I meant trivial conflict, as it would of been to Murhid. He sees that there is no problem, If Ubaar and Iv kill each other he would not be concerned. And if this discussion did have to be done, It could of been done in the tavern, not inside the monastery....

I don't mind discussing this, that's why I brought it up, gotta go to school now though...  so it's a quick post


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## reapersaurus (Mar 26, 2002)

Murhid said:
			
		

> *And if this discussion did have to be done, It could of been done in the tavern, not inside the monastery....*



So seriously - wouldn't he be ticked at Kytess, not at Ivellios or Ubaar?

[overly dramatic] Ivellios and Ubaar are not your whipping boys!
They don't exist to receive your abuse! [/overly dramatic]  LOL  

hell, I think Ubaar's got more charisma than like the majority of the group!


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 27, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I think Ubaar's got more charisma than like the majority of the group!*




Surely more than Kytess.  Were you wondering why she didn't try to take leadership from the beginning?


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## reapersaurus (Mar 27, 2002)

ya, actually, the more i play with it, the more i'm beginning to think that point-buy really makes for some uninteresting stats.

[grumble] the perpetual low-charisma of PC's using point-buy begins to grate on me.
You just don't have the points to spare...  [/grumble]


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 27, 2002)

The interesting thing about Kytess' stats is that they are the point-buy equivilent of rolled stats.  I just approximated the scores as best I could; point buy actually gave me 1 point less Str and Int and 1 point too high Wis.  HG let me drop the Wis, though, so that was fixed.


----------



## reapersaurus (Mar 27, 2002)

hmm..     
every single time i've rolled 4d6, i've rolled better stats than point-buy allows me to.

It's actually quite restrictive to my idea of a heroic character most of the times...


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## Conaill (Mar 27, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *every single time i've rolled 4d6, i've rolled better stats than point-buy allows me to.*




In that case, I would have a good look at your d6's. 

Just imagine how restrictive it would be to your idea of a heroic character to have to play those below-average characters you are bound to roll up 50% of the time.

One complaint I do have regarding point-buy: everybody tends to "optimize" their scores. Just look at the non-iconics ability scores: _they are all even_! (with the exception of Kytess's Wis7) That means you actually get a little more "bang for your buck" in terms of ability bonuses than you would expect from rolled stats with the same point-buy average value.


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## Murhid (Mar 27, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *So seriously - wouldn't he be ticked at Kytess, not at Ivellios or Ubaar? *



I don't see how I did ill-treat them...



> "Oneself is only commenting on the amount of chit chatter that occurs while one is in a destroyed monastery, seeking a certain stone, for a certain man...



Murhid was commenting on the whole party then.


> I think the dust has gotten to you larger one..."



That was Murhid's attempt to be-friend Ubaar, seeing how Ubaar likes jokes and all. Though yes I know, neither I nor Murhid are the best joke tellers  (edit: yes, I should of added a gesture or something along those lines, my fault)

And the only reason Murhid didn't make a direct comment about Kytess's timing is because he wants her support, and commenting would have lost it.

Tis a pity about the low amount of cha in our group. But I don't think it would make that of a big difference in our role-playing. Nevertheless I'm going to dump my 4th lvl attribute bonus thing on cha, wow a grand total of 11!~! Hooray I can be a 1st lvl sorcerer!


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## reapersaurus (Mar 27, 2002)

Conaill said:
			
		

> *In that case, I would have a good look at your d6's. *



I just rolled 6 4d6 3 times, and got 39 points, 39 points, and 28 points.
That's actually lower than I usually get.


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## Conaill (Mar 27, 2002)

Regarding the Detect Magic still being on or not: I just tried speed-reading all the conversation that happened since Ubaar cast his spell _four pages ago_. Took me just over 6 minutes. (And that's _only_ the conversation bits, skipping over all the other description, and reading as fast as I could.)

Detect Magic only lasts 1 minute/level...


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## reapersaurus (Mar 27, 2002)

oh, come now....!  

You're going to hold role-playing against the characters?!~  

Talking's a free action, right?


----------



## Conaill (Mar 28, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *You're going to hold role-playing against the characters?!*




Hey, feel free to complain to Kytess about wasting precious time in the middle of a dungeon. Yet another roleplaying opportunity!


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## HeavyG (Mar 29, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *oh, come now....!
> 
> You're going to hold role-playing against the characters?!~
> 
> Talking's a free action, right?  *




Saying 'yes', 'no', 'shoot the goblin' or 'BLAAAARGH!' is a free action and does not require concentration.

Having an argument, however, takes time and _does_ require concentration. 

If you really wanted to keep concentrating on the spell and check out both rooms quickly, you should have specified so from the start.

(Like there's magic in that wrecked room anyway...  Then again, you never know. )

(I'm back, btw­.)


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 29, 2002)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> *(I'm back, btw­.)*




I won't be doing much PBP this weekend; Easter will consume most of my time Sunday, and preparations for Easter will take much of Saturday.

If I get a spare moment this weekend, I'll post.  I'll be ready to play on Monday for sure.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 29, 2002)

i don't think we need everyone to be involved for the adventure to advance forward, but i'm not gonna be the only one posting here....

have we reached a stalling point again?
Are you guys still interested in continuing?

If you don't post regularly, it only gets easier and easier over time to blow off the adventure...


----------



## CRGreathouse (Mar 29, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *have we reached a stalling point again?*




Yeah, it seems this happend every time Heavy G leaves.  How odd.


----------



## Conaill (Mar 29, 2002)

Passover, Easter and Spring Break. Between the three, there's bound to be a slowdown. Guess we'll just have to wait it out...


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## Thanee (Mar 29, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> Thanee - you can't have Taz even stand up for herself once?




Oh, I don't see how this would be true, Taz can't mind control the others (so she's the only one answering ), but surely does defend herself pretty much everytime she needs to. *shrug*

She wouldn't answer Ubaar everytime questioned, tho, since she does not see much fruit in talking to him as has shown in the past.



> I guess Ubaar's attempts to make the little ones stronger, and less likely to be taken advantage of, are doomed to failure...




Well... yes, of course, they are! 

Strength is only for the weak! 

Bye
Thanee


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## reapersaurus (Mar 29, 2002)

Conaill said:
			
		

> *Passover, Easter and Spring Break. Between the three, there's bound to be a slowdown. Guess we'll just have to wait it out... *



I don't believe in 'slowdowns'.  

there should only be mutually agreed, and unavoidable periods of layoffs (like the holidays last year), or temporary, individual breaks based on personal scheduling difficulties.

We, as a group, should be continually interacting, and nopt dropping or ignoring what other characters are trying to do in character.
It seems the only time there's lots of posts is when we're in combat.

As soon as Heavy G leaves us to guide our own interaction or story points, we suddenly turn mute.
I can't count the number of things I've tried to throw out there by Ubaar, and not many of them are taken up and worked with.

There are many things that HAVE been responded to, which is cool, but too often (in my eyes), there have been efforts by people (not just me) that haven't been reacted to.

Open question: what are we trying to get out of this adventure?
I know many of us have spent energies to keep up their characters (some more than others, unfortunately), but I'm really confused about what you guys want.

Battle simulations and combat practice?
Occasional message-board diversions?
Character development and advancement?

what are YOUR thoughts?
I really fail to see how anyone wouldn't have thoughts on what I've talked about in this post....


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## HeavyG (Mar 30, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Yeah, it seems this happend every time Heavy G leaves.  How odd. *




You don't need me to interact amongst yourselves, though.

I read somewhere that the mark of a good game is that when the DM stops talking for 10, 15, 20 minutes, the players still continue role-playing their characters, talking amonst themselves, etc...

This is not happening here.


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## HeavyG (Mar 30, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> * Open question: what are we trying to get out of this adventure?
> I know many of us have spent energies to keep up their characters (some more than others, unfortunately), but I'm really confused about what you guys want.
> 
> Battle simulations and combat practice?
> ...




I'm interested in the answer too.  Please answer ?


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## reapersaurus (Mar 31, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Murhid's no-nonsense attitude is his major positive quality, as far as Kytess is concerned.  It is one of the only things that lets her get beyond her "shell".  If you drop that, you'll make it very hard for me to show Kytess as anything *but* a hard-nosed warrior.
> 
> Having said that, the biggest issue with Kytess at the moment is the sword she gave to Jalon.  That could have interesting effects... *



CR - since it seems most everyone else is asleep....   

I read back to this and was curious : how can a 'no-nonsense' attitude help you to roleplay Kytess out of her shell?

Why would Murhid's roleplay be the only character that can help you to show Kytess as anything but a warrior?

I thought there's been may instances of interaction where she has the opportunity to.
I'm not thoroughly clear on her. As i understand, she denies herself pleasure or feeling, out of fear that any indulgences will lead to death (a very battle-field mentality), and she internally yearns for some purpose in her life.
Some thing that will help her transcend the brutish things she's seen and the fear that everyone is forgettable, and there will be no one to mourn her if she dies.

Murhid  - I still have no sense of what he's really about, other than sounding cryptic and aloof.  
Maybe it's a language barrier?
Murhid - is German your native tongue?
I think that's why I didn't make any sense of Thanee's last response to me, also?

Jalon - I wish I had more info about Tyr, but your character seems consistent and strongly identifiable, if just a bit weird how someone who's all about justice supports the injustice of racial profiling in spite of evidence to the contrary.
His last post where he stood up for Ubaar's actions marking him as different from his heritage was beautiful.
I'm surprised he supports the actions of the fairly-inefeective halflings, tho -  is Tyr a war-god? Wouldn't he want people to be good at war?
That's partly why Ubaar is continuing to poke at the halflings - to try to get them more concerned about surviving, and less about bumbling around and looking cute. LOL  

Ivellios - Recently, I think you've been getting a better sense of the character, and many figuring a way to work within the group, while still staying true to the character concept.
I didn't get your response about the question, "Can Ivellios's concept ever actually accept Ubaar as a companion?"
And again, great work on the group picture.

To finish, I'm surprised that there are so often huge lulls in the game.
We have 8 people, and i doubt if all of us are busy during the day.
I sometimes feel it takes a monumental roleplaying effort to get any response out of others on a consistent basis (other than Kytess).

From what I'm reading, Heavy G doesn't exactly want to do all his combat work for nothing.
I'm sure he's not gung-ho to have us jump into another month-and-a-half worth of combat, with little-to-no character interaction.

How did you like roleplaying the priest of Chauntea, Heavy? 
Ubaar'll bring him a rose, if the church ends up being helpful again. 

Can't wait to see you roleplay another monster down in the Dungeon! LOL
enuff thoughts for now - i just hope some people respond, or I'm wondering if there's any purpose in continuing this 'adventure'.  

edit: Hell, Conaill's been more involved in the thread recently thatn many of the 'participants'.  *pained chuckling*


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 31, 2002)

Well I'm still here


----------



## reapersaurus (Mar 31, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Well I'm still here  *



Sollir, it seems that you post longer responses in all the other threads that you play in -  is that me noticing wrong, or why is that?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 31, 2002)

Hrm, well I posted in the psionisicle recently and the round hasn't resolved, in the non-iconics adventure I've been getting confused messages about the group and inner fighting altohugh i'll post soon, Heroes of the Worlds I've posted a few times last night and once today, Swashbucklers i've posted a lil bit, the IR is sucking a great bit of my time out, I think I've been posting ok, tell me in any ones that you haven't seen me in...


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## reapersaurus (Mar 31, 2002)

you misunderstood my post:
it seems you post more, and longer, in your other games.

?


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## Murhid (Mar 31, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Murhid  - I still have no sense of what he's really about, other than sounding cryptic and aloof.
> Maybe it's a language barrier?
> Murhid - is German your native tongue?
> *



Correct English is my second language. 

On the topic of our characters: I still have no sense of what Ubaar is really about.... other than trying to be a good Half-Orc, and someone who wants to grope Kytess. And I know that you have put effort into Ubaar to make him a bit more in depth than that, as I have with Murhid, I just don't think it gets through. 
Concerning the other characters I very much like the way Jalon (who I would like to see post more often, though I realize, time probably doesn't permit), Kytess, Iv, and Taz have been posting. I understand that Sollir (the player and the character) is a combat oriented person and that is totally understandable, also his character isn't the best for role-playing. And lastly, I think HG has been a champ, putting up with us and all. 

Now with the amount of posting, I personally have been busy during these last couple days. However I am near my computer a lot of the time and I did have time to check the boards and I did have sufficient time to post. Though I'll say frankly, posting would have been a fruitless exercise like it is a lot of the time. If I would have tried to move the group onto another area I'd probably get ignored or ranted at, and IC wise Murhid would not want to talk to any of the group members, having nothing in common with any but Kytess, who herself seems occupied with thoughts of Jalon. Well that's how it is for me anyway...  I have thought on how to start something with Ubaar, I just don't know how. He seems to only accept those who can kill things which is a little ironic to what you, reaper have been trying to achieve out of us... 

PS. Murhid is my character and he will be role-played in which way I see fit. Though if you do see some F'd up grammar/spelling or have some constructive advice on how to role-play Murhid, please say so! I can only improve from it.


----------



## Thanee (Mar 31, 2002)

What exactly did you not get, reaper?

Bye
Thanee


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## reapersaurus (Mar 31, 2002)

Good post, Murhid.

That's the kind of communication that can help understanding.
Seriously.

And please understand, I'm not telling you how to play your character- he's all yours - I'm simply trying to give you my impressions and opinions of the character. 
Hopefully that's OK.

Thanee - i think we're just not reading each other right. 
Never mind.

From Murhid's statements, I'm beginning to wonder if anyone's been reading what huge amounts of in-character philosophy and approach I've been putting in for Ubaar.
Maybe we all are just reading the actions of the characters, and not the words in non-combat situations? (Because I'm missing all but Kytess' philosophy and approach)
Of course, those that don't talk in non-combat situations, it makes it harder to get a feel for their characters, of course...


----------



## CRGreathouse (Mar 31, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I read back to this and was curious : how can a 'no-nonsense' attitude help you to roleplay Kytess out of her shell?
> 
> Why would Murhid's roleplay be the only character that can help you to show Kytess as anything but a warrior?*



The similarity in outlook ("no-nonsense" is just one example) makes Kytess more comfortable around Murhid than the others.  She feels a kind of kinship to him, and as such is more likely to let something "slip".

Kytess sees Ubaar as her polar opposite: an uncontrolled, orderless combatant.  Ivellios also lacks respect for proper authority, and has shown himself to be a bigot as well.  Despite her comments to the contrary, she doesn't think much of the halflings.  Jalon is distant, and this is only reinforced by his position of leadership.  Murhid, though equally distant, seems to be like Kytess: quiet, orderly, and with a dark past.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I'm not thoroughly clear on her. As i understand, she denies herself pleasure or feeling, out of fear that any indulgences will lead to death (a very battle-field mentality), and she internally yearns for some purpose in her life.
> Some thing that will help her transcend the brutish things she's seen and the fear that everyone is forgettable, and there will be no one to mourn her if she dies.*



She denies herself worldly pleasures more out of habit than anything else; she thinks of such things as frivolous.  She does not lead a particularly self-aware life or analyze her own motives.

She's not afraid that she'll die and be forgotten - indeed, she's resigned to that fate.

She does yearn for a meaning to life, *but does not realize this yet.*  This is one of the larget reasons she's drawn to Murhid - he seems to have the answers to life, displayed by his (annoying, mystic, monk-like) serenity.


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 1, 2002)

ahhh....   NOW I get it!
Great post, CR.

Order is what she's looking for, and purpose in a life devoid of any future.
The mystic, aloof monk MAY have the answers she doesn't even know she seeks.
Got it.

Man, that was ust way easy to understand, CR.
Wish it was that way all the time.

I'm curious, CR - do YOU have a 'handle' on Ubaar's approach and motivations?
I'd appreciate if you'd throw back at me any impressions you've gotten...

It might help me make things clearer to the others in the party...?


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 1, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I'm curious, CR - do YOU have a 'handle' on Ubaar's approach and motivations?
> I'd appreciate if you'd throw back at me any impressions you've gotten...*




I think I understand Ubaar's basic motivations & perspectives, but I'd appreciate a post on the subject, just to clarify things.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 1, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *The mystic, aloof monk MAY have the answers she doesn't even know she seeks.*




Exactly.  It's a subconcious thing mainly - Murhid doesn't appear to have the inner demons Kytess does.  (See Kytess' dream.)



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Order is what she's looking for, and purpose in a life devoid of any future.*




Order* is something that Kytess conciously seeks - the order she found in the army.  She expects all aspects of her life to run with military precision, and works toward that end constantly (breaking up Ubaar/Ivellios, insisting on formal leadership, etc.).

Purpose for her life is a much deeper and stronger need, but she has no insight** into her own problem.  She feels it as an almost tangible lack, but assumes she can fix it on her own somehow.  This leads to her restlessness, as she tries things in the hope of finding the answer.

* Despite her love of order and control, Kytess is a free spirit at heart.  She left her town to wander the world, and took up the life of an adventurer for no reason other than to better herself.  Thus, I chose her alignment as N instead of LN.
** This is one of the reasons I chose to drop Kytess' Wisdom to 7, in addition to her general impulsiveness.  She's not cut out to be a leader.  Interestingly, she realizes that she'd make a poor commander and acts accordingly, finding an appropriate leader and pledging loyalty.


----------



## Thanee (Apr 1, 2002)

Well, how does Taz see her companions...

Jalon is righteous and honorable. His highest priority is to uphold the law. A little too serious for her tastes, but loyal to his cause and his companions and overall a very trustworthy and reliable person. He's also a very good fighter and tactician.

Kytess is by far the best fighter in the group and has a great tactical sense. She's had some very bad moments in life and hides her true being (if she's not completely burned out already) behind a cold attitude and excessive fighting excercises. Whether this is on purpose or a result of her unpleasant experiences, Taz cannot say. Her rare nice moments give a little hope for her true being to surface eventually. She doesn't fear anything more than to be caught unprepared. Completely disciplined and reliable when it comes to fighting, but very reserved otherwise.

Ivellios is wild and untamed and a very simple mind. A really nice guy under a rough shell. He loves nature and fighting, but also had some hard times in the past, mostly caused by the hated orcs. He does accept Ubaar as different from his orc-kin, who led to Ivellios' suffering, but is obviously annoyed by the constant verbal attacks of the half-orc. He is fierce in combat, but lacks tactical sense and often rushes headfirst into battle, without thinking about the consequences. Not someone to rely on, unless given directions, which he usually follows.

Ubaar seems motivated by physical strength almost exclusively. He could be an excellent fighter, but his lack of tactical understanding and very undisciplined/chaotic way of fighting lessen his effectiveness somewhat. Still he tries hard to show by example, that (half-)orcs are not by default evil, which he clearly succeeds at, while often resorting to being funny, something he rarely succeeds at. He has a great sense for rythm and music, tho. He calls Ivellios a racist, since he is prejudiced against orcs, but is a kind of "racist" himself, judging others by their physical strength and fighting prowess only. Even more than Ivellios, he's very unreliable, except for taking on the biggest foes in combat to show his superiority in strength - maybe has to do something with his worshipped deity.

Murhid loves fighting and to observe others to probably learn from them. He displays the calm of a studying monk, but seems to be reluctant to let others know of his excitement, when he can observe or even take part in a fight. He wants to prove most useful for the group, always eager to help others, but shy to voice his own opinion.

Sollir is somewhat contradictory. While being a pretty good shot, he doesn't like to see others suffering and seems reluctant to fight himself unless necessary. He is pretty nimble, but sometimes acts rather clumsy. Maybe he's trying to hide something, or it is just his way to show devotion to his deity Brandobaris.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 1, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Exactly. It's a subconcious thing mainly - Murhid doesn't appear to have the inner demons Kytess does. (See Kytess' dream.)*



Actually, after re-reading that portion of the adventure (you guys DO occasionally re-read them, do you?), I don't see how any player could be very confused about Ubaar's approach.

I really laid it all out on that page, did a lot of work to, at least.

Wait a minute, CR - Kytess doesn't even KNOW she has inner demons!  
She doesn't remember her frustrating and imprisoning dreams...


----------



## Jalon Odessa (Apr 1, 2002)

Urgh, well I'm back - sorry I didn't give you guys notice that I was going out of town, but I didn't realise I'd be leaving for the weekend until a few minutes before I left.

Damn impulsive and chaotic priests of Tyr.  

I'll be back to post in both the IC and OOC threads in *yawn* the morning - I really need some sleep before I'll be able to type anything coherant though....


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 1, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Wait a minute, CR - Kytess doesn't even KNOW she has inner demons!
> She doesn't remember her frustrating and imprisoning dreams... *




No, she doesn't - thus "subconcious [sic]".


----------



## Jalon Odessa (Apr 2, 2002)

Ubaar, re: Jalon the racist.

It's not so much that Jalon supports racial stereotyping, but rather that his upbringing does.  Being the son of a wealthy merchant family, Jalon lead a very secluded, sheltered life and tended to see very little of the 'real world' (This has all changed since becoming a mighty warrior in the service of Tyr, however).  So although the doctrine of his church is that all should be judged exclusively on their actions, rather than their race, and Jalon believes this to the utmost, that doesn't mean he won't be uncomfortable in unfamiliar circumstances.

Ubaar is the first person of orcish descent Jalon's met in his life, and although he'd never overtly criticise Ubaar for his heritage his manner of adressing Ubaar was a little less than polite earlier in the adventure - simply because he assumed that Ubaar was something of a savage.  Now that he's seen that this isn't (entirely ) the case, he'll be alot more sensative towards the issue of Ubaar's background.

As for the other members of the party -

Jalon considers Kytess to be a great warrior and tactician, but also to be far too cold towards others, and also a little brash.  He can see that although she's young she has seen much suffering in her life, and for this reason tends to be a little protective of her.  Given her age and stature, Jalon sees her as his ward, and would like to guide her towards the path of Tyr to help in overcoming her demons.

Taz is the jack-of-all trades of the group - helpful in combat with her magic (colour spray!) and she seems well-adapted to guiding the party through the dungeon.  Given that Taz has been nothing short of polite and courteous towards the rest of the party, Jalon will tend to reciprocate, often addressing her as 'm'lady' or a similar archaic title.

Jalon views Ivellios as an undisciplined loner, and would like to pull him into line more often than he does.  Maybe if Ivellios could shut his mouth for a moment the party would be alot more cohesive.  He also, however, recognises Ivellios outstanding abilities in combat - perhaps this new-found devotion to Corellon will help him to focus his energies a little better?

Sollir is still in Jalon's bad-books after the egg incident.  

In Murhid Jalon can see a great wisdom and a philisophical mind.  He respects Murhid's devotion and discipline and also his tactical cunning.  Given that he views himself as the party leader, Jalon considers Murhid to be his right-hand man, and would gladly heed his council if only he'd speak up more often.

Back to Ubaar, Jalon admires his enthusiasm and battle-prowess, and also his devotion to his god.  He also believes that Ubaar, like Ivellios, is too headstrong and hasty, and should consider the party as a whole more often.  With a little more discipline Ubaar could focus his already powerful combat abilities to an even greater level.


----------



## Jalon Odessa (Apr 3, 2002)

As for the map, Heavy G - I'd love to make one up, but my cartography skills are severely lacking.


----------



## Conaill (Apr 3, 2002)

*map*

Here ya go. Let me know if there's anything missing...

[See a couple of posts below for updated map!]


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 3, 2002)

Conaill said:
			
		

> *I've got something whipped up, if you're interested. (Of course, I wouldn't want to deprive any of the participants of some extra XP... ) *




Conaill, you're amazing!


----------



## Sollir Furryfoot (Apr 3, 2002)

Nice map there!  Hrm, where to?


----------



## Murhid (Apr 3, 2002)

Ooh very nice !


----------



## Thanee (Apr 3, 2002)

Hey, that's one helpful spectator there!  Thank you very much!

Bye
Thanee


----------



## HeavyG (Apr 3, 2002)

Thanee said:
			
		

> *Hey, that's one helpful spectator there!  Thank you very much!
> 
> Bye
> Thanee *




Indeed.  You other guys should feel bad now. 

There are some inaccuracies, but they are due to my using Excel and being forced to put in 5' thick walls when they should be something like 1 foot thick.

The only thing not on the map so far are the two rooms you just visited : one to the northwest of the map, shaped like the room near it, and the one to the east, which is long and narrow.

Both are dead-ends.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 3, 2002)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> *There are some inaccuracies, but they are due to my using Excel and being forced to put in 5' thick walls when they should be something like 1 foot thick.*




If you have to make more Excel maps, you could just use borders... this should make the 5' wall problem go away.


----------



## HeavyG (Apr 3, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If you have to make more Excel maps, you could just use borders... this should make the 5' wall problem go away. *




Mmh, yes, I thought about that when I started doing them.

But I had trouble drawing doors.  I guess I could just use a double border for doors or something.

Of course, the goal of the maps is to accurately represent a battlefield, not be accurate as a mean of long-term mapping, so...


----------



## Conaill (Apr 3, 2002)

Here's a smaller, updated version:


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 6, 2002)

I'm kind of getting tired of feeling like I'm one of the few ones that wants to continue this adventure.

It is going to die very soon if people don't step up.

Maybe I'm wrong in this guess, but it seems like people are not interested in continuing, and I don't think Heavy's going to be leading us around by the nose without our efforts.

Is there some reason I'm missing that explains why we've slowed down to just a few actions per week?


----------



## Murhid (Apr 6, 2002)

I've got the same thoughts as you reaper...

I myself haven't posted because Murhid is really only waiting, and if he were to start a discussion with Kytess or Jalon it might not get any replies (I'm assuming both players are busy). So if anyone wants to role-play wit the silly Monk, I'm all ears.


----------



## Alhandra (Apr 6, 2002)

Murhid said:
			
		

> *I've got the same thoughts as you reaper...
> 
> I myself haven't posted because Murhid is really only waiting, and if he were to start a discussion with Kytess or Jalon it might not get any replies (I'm assuming both players are busy). So if anyone wants to role-play wit the silly Monk, I'm all ears.  *



Wouldn't that be Ivellios who's 'all ears', him being an elf and all?     

But seriously, don't let anyone stop you from talking in-character, Murhid - it seems like we're gonna need you to come a BIT out of that uncommunicative shell, if we're gonna keep the adventure going, and you're up for posting more often!

If you'd like, I could have Ubaar goad you into talking more, or revealing part of your past....


----------



## Murhid (Apr 6, 2002)

Sure, I'm up for anything reaper. Even if does get a _little_ hostile, Murhid understands that Ubaar is just trying to joke around.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...











*OOC:*




I was under the impression that if it wasn't said, it wasn't said, nevertheless maybe we should make an exception for this one.

Just a quick point, the comment from Murhid 'lost mage' was not referring to Taz, but the stereotypical view of mages and books etc.


----------



## Thanee (Apr 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by reapersaurus_
> *Say, Jay-lo.*




Don't confuse Jalon with J.Lo! 

I mean, Jalon is all good and well, but he can't really compare... 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 9, 2002)

You mean we AREN'T in a dungeon-cwawl with J. Lo?

You're saying J. Lo doesn't have SOME kind of clerical, or diety-granted powers?

Wonder what domains she would have?  

And can you spell c-h-a-i-n-m-a-i-l- -b-i-k-i-n-i-?


----------



## Jalon Odessa (Apr 9, 2002)

Shhhh!  You've just spoiled Jalon's big secret you fool!

Why do you think I poured all of those skill points into Perform (Wear skimpy outfits) and brought along that chainmail bikini?!


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 9, 2002)

I've been checking on the adventure daily, but I haven't posted since there's nothing for Kytess to do.

Is there any particular reason we've slowed down?


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 10, 2002)

OK.
Initially, I thought this recent slowdown may have been because Heavy's burnt out (still from before Xmas?), then I re-read the past week, and actually, there's been a lot of roleplay.
It's only this turn that we entered 'combat time', except this ghost doesn't seem that 'combatable'.

So since I'm getting frustrated, also, at the apparent glacial pace, I suggest that instead of feeling like the whole party has to be heard from to do something, I say as soon as 2 people have posted on something that's not crucial, than Heavy, help us to move the action along.

Sound good, everyone?

As soon as Ubaar has the hypnotic ghost-effect wear off, he'll continue to try to force the action.

BTW: I as a player am kind of miffed that the ghost just blurted in on us, after I attempted to team with Jalon on the turn attempt, but instead was rendered useless.
Hell, for that matter, I'm sure Ivellios would have joined forces with his new kewl turning powers...   

But Heavy said 12-14 hours before the next update, and like clockwork, he advanced the action.

I guess that's all we can do, is hope whoever you're trying to get communication with will respond before the next action time comes up.
I have bad predictions about the next real combat-time, if the extended absences continue...


----------



## HeavyG (Apr 10, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *BTW: I as a player am kind of miffed that the ghost just blurted in on us, after I attempted to team with Jalon on the turn attempt, but instead was rendered useless.
> Hell, for that matter, I'm sure Ivellios would have joined forces with his new kewl turning powers...
> 
> But Heavy said 12-14 hours before the next update, and like clockwork, he advanced the action.
> *




The only reason I did that was because you thought it moved too slowly, you know.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 19, 2002)

Re: Kytess talking to halflings

Kytess doesn't "get" the halflings in the group.  She knows they both use magic (and very small weapons), but she hasn't really seen them contribute to the group.  She's trying to place them now by asking them if they can help us here.

I don't know how you two want to handle this, but this is the second major attempt to integrate the halflings more closely into the group - the first was Ubaar's more confrontational approach.


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 19, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Re: Kytess talking to halflings
> 
> I don't know how you two want to handle this, but this is the second major attempt to integrate the halflings more closely into the group - the first was Ubaar's more confrontational approach. *



Oooh, wow!
People HAVE been reading this thing!  
*fuzzy feeling*

Actually, besides the major effort, I've had Ubaar try and involve them time and time again, and other than Taz's good efforts recently at propelling a bit of action forward, I still have no idea about their personalities, inclinations (other than clumsiness), and motivations.

I've actually given up actively trying to involve others in roleplaying, almost.


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 21, 2002)

Kytess: Wis 7
Murhid: Wis 16



			
				CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Such is _my_ wisdom: befriend not the warrior." *




Who's giving the advice?


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 22, 2002)

in Ubaar's world, it's those that DON'T fight hard and well that die....


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 29, 2002)

CR the Man wrote:







> I *like* the fact that we don't have a terribly high number of skill points (as you well know!)



 Oh..  what a _surprise!!_ 

I'm wondering, Charles....
Would you prefer to play a commoner with a stick, with 2 skills and 1 feat.

THAT would be a perfect gaming challenge, eh?  

Forget this heroic ideal of larger-than-life....
I wanna play a loser, who knows even less than I do.
Someone who doesn't get better at skills like Search, Spot, Listen, etc, even tho their life depends on it everyday.

It's funny how we, as humans in a non-hostile world, get BETTER over time at things like spotting, and realizing what other's motivations truly are (SEnse Motive) and the like.
And our lives don't even depend on those skills, and we get better over time.

Let's perpetuate the stereotype that if anyone is good at fighting in a game, than they can't be good at anything else.
Wait.  
The wizard is damned good at combat, and he's got plenty of combat dominance.
Wait.
The rogue is huge out of combat, with skills o'plenty, but he can still dish out lots of damage in combat.   

Whew!
Now THAT'S an OOC rant...

and CR - I was really just playing in the thread, you know that, don't you?
You didn't have to even come close to 'explaining' what you had Kytess do in character.
I like the info you share, but i just hope you don't feel like you owe it to me or anything.  
?


----------



## Doppleganger (Apr 29, 2002)

A side note on the commoner with a stick idea.  I played a commoner (goatherdsman) with a staff in the Sunless Citadel thread here on the boards a long time ago and it was alot of fun!  I thought it'd be more realistic to roll 3d6 for each ability and then even rolled for his HP.  Needless to say, the character wasn't very effective for combat (or anything else, for that matter...).  But there was still plenty of stuff for the character to do and say as we did our exploring.  I had a blast!


----------



## Thanee (Apr 29, 2002)

You really have some obsession with those non-fighters being "too good" in combat, reaper, don't you? 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## CRGreathouse (Apr 30, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *and CR - I was really just playing in the thread, you know that, don't you?
> You didn't have to even come close to 'explaining' what you had Kytess do in character.
> I like the info you share, but i just hope you don't feel like you owe it to me or anything.
> ? *




Of course - if I thought it was any more than venting and poking a little fun, I'd clarify it via email.  Still, I'd like to think I know you at least well enough to tell when you're joking. 



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I'm wondering, Charles....
> Would you prefer to play a commoner with a stick, with 2 skills and 1 feat.*




http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3462 

No, it's not that I want to play useless characters; I want characters that are forced to choose their skills carefully - "hard choices".  In particular, I don't want characters to all share a common set of skills.  I could have given Kytess Spot, Listen, and Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate - but I didn't.  Instead, I had to make a hard tradeoff for Jump, Ride, and Tumble (et. al.).  In fact, I could have still put ranks in Spot, but I wanted to flesh out my background with Craft (weaponsmith).  In fact, if I had fewer ranks*, I'd still take Craft (weaponsmith), likely 2 ranks (with 2 fewer ranks in Ride, or 1 fewer rank in Ride and Jump).  It's not about being machoistic and wanting my character to be weak - it's about not being Superman.

* This would be a problem for me, because Kytess' above-average Int is a major part of her character (for me, at least).  She's not dumb muscle - and she knows it.


----------



## CRGreathouse (May 1, 2002)

I'll be out of town for a while (leaving next morning).  don't flip if I can't post for a while. 

******

If we're lucky, we can have some charactyer development for some of the other characters now - I'd love to see more of Taz and Sollir, and more *deeply* into Ivellios.  (I'd also like to see Murhid's backstory come into play, but that's a little harder.)

I'm not trying to discourage Jalon and Ubaar from developingm but I think I understand them fairly well.  If they'd help the others, though, so much the better.


----------



## reapersaurus (May 2, 2002)

> If we're *lucky*.........


----------



## reapersaurus (May 2, 2002)

I so don't agree with that gaming approach, CR.   

If I want to play someone that has to limit their gaming choices between incredibly-small-ability A and incredibly-small-ability B it would take me 15 years just to play enough to get exposure to one-tenth of the core rules.

I believe you should get MORE for your gaming time than just one ability or two.
If my character sheet only allows me to do a fraction of what the system is able to rules-wise accomodate, than i think tat's a waste of utilization.
You don't need rules to role-play.
you need rules to allow a PC to do things.
And in my opinion, the base 3E rules do not allow a character to do enough for my money. (skills, feats, abilities)


----------



## CRGreathouse (May 2, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I believe you should get MORE for your gaming time than just one ability or two.*




First, I don't think that Kytess is limited at all: Craft (weaponsmith) +9, Jump +7, Ride +10, Tumble +8.

Next, if you really mean that, you should take a character with (1) higher Int, and (2) a class with more skill points.

Getting lots of skills is for rogues and experts.  Raging and casting spells is for clerics.  If a barbarian/cleric should complain about not getting enough skill points, shouldn't a rogue complain about not getting enough spells and special abilities?

Do you think high skill point classes are too powerful?


----------



## reapersaurus (May 2, 2002)

Kytess has FOUR skills that she's good at, dude.
FOUR....  skills.

She can't Climb worth a damn, she can't even swim, she has NO ability to perform - not even a limerick, she can't see or listen worth a damn (even tho her life depends on it), etc etc etc.

Seems pretty straight-jacketed to ME, and you even spent points to give her extra skills AND she's a human, to boot.

It's just not a realistic emulation of what real people can do.
Just because you have a manual labor occupation doesn't mean you can't be good at dancing.
Or rhyming, or bluffing, or any number of things that we see people good at in every single day of our lives.

Solution: 
Give more skill points.
If you want, and are afraid of powergaming with skills, only allow them to be used for flavor skills, such as Craft, Profession, Perform, Knowledge, etc.

It is my opinion that all adventurers should get better at Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive (if they have any headyness) as they go up in levels (all ideas clarified from KarinsDad's house rules), due to how much they use them, it's insane that they wouldn't get better by practice.

And CR:
"If a barbarian/cleric should complain about not getting enough skill points"
Don't you mean a PLAYER of a barbarian/cleric?

I'm not Ubaar, man.  

And rogues DO get special abilities in addition to their metric boatload of skills.
They also can be good in combat.

And i DO think that high skill classes (rogues and wizards - due to their prime stat conveniently being the only stat which grants skills) ARE too powerful.

And Thanee - yes, i DO have an obsession with non-fighters being too good at combat.  
Thanks for asking.


----------



## Sollir Furryfoot (May 2, 2002)

I still lurk... , I know I need to post more...

also,

Sollir the halfling isn't complaining with his what, I think it's like a +1 bonus on one skill and -1 as opposed to -2 on another.


----------



## CRGreathouse (May 2, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *She can't Climb worth a damn, she can't even swim, she has NO ability to perform - not even a limerick, she can't see or listen worth a damn (even tho her life depends on it), etc etc etc.*




Well, not *no* ability to perform, just very little.  Have you ever seen her do anything approching performing?  If I was given unlimited skill points for Craft, Perform, Profession, and Knowledge I'd put 2 points into Craft (bowmaking)*.  No more *anywhere*.  She couldn't pull off a service job at all, and can't really make anything beyond weaponry.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Seems pretty straight-jacketed to ME, and you even spent points to give her extra skills AND she's a human, to boot.*




I didn't spend the ablity points for skills, I spent them because I want Kytess to be smart.  I noted elsewhere that I could deal with 5-10 less skill points, though 10 less would start to hurt.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *It's just not a realistic emulation of what real people can do.
> Just because you have a manual labor occupation doesn't mean you can't be good at dancing.*




I think you understate the meaning of skill points.  Most of the population is Com1, with a max of 2-4 points per skill.  Thus, 4 ranks is very skilled *in comparison to the population*.  A dancer  with Perform +4 (2 ranks, +2 Cha) would be better than the vast majority of the population.  Typical commonfolk who can dance would have 0-1 ranks, while a dance instructor might have 4-6 ranks.  The belle of the ball would have about +7 to Perform (dance) checks.

It could be argued that Kytess should not have 4 ranks in Craft (weaponsmith) because that wasn't as major a factor as the other skills were in here life.  I'd probably agree with a person making such an argument, but I'm keeping Kytess the way she is. 



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Or rhyming, or bluffing, or any number of things that we see people good at in every single day of our lives.*




Typical commonfolk would have 0 ranks in Perform (rhyming) and 0-2 ranks in Bluff.  You don't need the skill to do something at all (in these cases), you need it to get good at it.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Solution:
> Give more skill points.
> If you want, and are afraid of powergaming with skills, only allow them to be used for flavor skills, such as Craft, Profession, Perform, Knowledge, etc.*




Ah, but I *don't* think characters get too few of these.  Look at Kytess after each fight we win - while everyone's celebrating, she's making cryptic comments to Murhid or watching for enemies.  Look at Ivellios right now - he's going nuts without something to fight.  We really don't have many skills at all outdside of fighting - it's our lives.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *It is my opinion that all adventurers should get better at Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive (if they have any headyness) as they go up in levels (all ideas clarified from KarinsDad's house rules), due to how much they use them, it's insane that they wouldn't get better by practice.*




I'm not opposed to this system (though I think it needs modification).

The need for points in Spot and Listen is understandable, though it's still possible to take them c/c - many, many characters do.  Kytess, however, hasn't been dungeoneering like the rest have (more or less); she's been fighting pitched battles.  Spot and Listen were for the sentries on the towers, not for the grunts on the ground.  There's really very little in her background to allow for those skills!



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *And CR:
> "If a barbarian/cleric should complain about not getting enough skill points"
> Don't you mean a PLAYER of a barbarian/cleric?
> 
> I'm not Ubaar, man.  *




I'm fully aware of the difference between characters and players, but still refer to them interchangably when I so choose.  I assume it's clear from context which I mean.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *And i DO think that high skill classes (rogues and wizards - due to their prime stat conveniently being the only stat which grants skills) ARE too powerful.
> 
> And Thanee - yes, i DO have an obsession with non-fighters being too good at combat.  *




Here's the critical difference.  I don't think that wizards and sorcerers are too powerful.  Heck, I have a human rogue with Int 18 in the campaign I DM, and he's by far the weakest character.  The only thing that keeps him going is the fact that he's the _de facto_ leader of the group, since he so outclasses everyone's Int (no wizard).  But I disgress.

* And 1 or 2 skill points into Knowledge (war) if S&F is used.  She knows tactics, but only from experience - no formal training.


----------



## reapersaurus (May 2, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *I don't think that wizards and sorcerers are too powerful. *



I mentioned rogues and wizards being too powerful.

And suffice to say, I don't see the skill system the same way you do.

For example, if normal people only have 2-4 total bonus to bluff or some skill, what explains that they almost ALWAYS succeed over someone who is unskilled?

I'm surprised you missed that part, CR.
You're Mr. Statistics and probability, and you're saying that most people have very low skill bonuses?

I'm unskilled in dance.
Give me a Perform (Dance) check, and I could EASILY beat the dance teacher with 5 ranks.
That'd give me easily a 25% chance, right? (according to your concept of the skills system)

But I'll guarantee you that in reality, the dance teacher would have the better performance 99/99% of the time.


----------



## Thanee (May 2, 2002)

If you think that every adventurer has to have good skills, why don't you give every adventurer some levels of rogue?

If you don't think the special abilities fit, go for expert.

If that doesn't work for you, spend your feats on stuff like Cosmopolitan.

A single-class fighter (for example) has probably spend his whole time learning and practicing fighting, that's why he's a fighter and nothing else. Very unlikely, so single-class characters are unrealistic to start.

Of course, the whole game concept is not highly realistic (hit points being the worst of it all).

I do agree somewhat, that the skill system is flawed. Either you are good at skills or you are very bad at skills, there seems to be no middle way. But you cannot simply give others more skills, because it hurts the balance and makes classes like the rogue obsolete.

Rogues being too powerful?

Wizards/sorcerers (at least at higher levels), clerics, ok, but rogues?

Just because they can deal damage, doesn't make them on par with a fighter's combat capabililties. And skills are by far the weakest area to be good at, since there are so many ways to get good at skills (especially magic items).

Bye
Thanee


----------



## reapersaurus (May 2, 2002)

Thanee said:
			
		

> If you think that every adventurer has to have good skills, why don't you give every adventurer some levels of rogue?
> 
> If you don't think the special abilities fit, go for expert.



Well, just to have some in-game fun between co-players, I'll debate these...

Being rudimentally functional with a skill that is used out of combat shouldn't require taking a level of rogue.
I'm quite adamant in that approach.
If a gaming system requires all PC's to either have a high INT or a level of rogue (at 1st level, mind you) to properly emulate a reasonably aware, and competent personality *gasp* out-of-combat, than there is something seriously wrong with the system, in my eyes.
Not wrong enough not to play it, but certainly wrong enough to contemplate a CHANGE.
(And expert is a NPC class - not a viable option, IMO)



> If that doesn't work for you, spend your feats on stuff like Cosmopolitan.



The over-reliance on feats to fix an oversight in a gaming system is one of the biggest fallacies of 3E, IMO.

Feats are such a precious commodity to allow for interesting fighting tactics, to use them as a role-playing enhancement is a big screw-job.
Feats are NOT always the answer. (in my experience, seldom the answer.)
Now, if you got over twice as many feats as you currently do, or if you were allowed "flavor-feats", that would help the situation.



> A single-class fighter (for example) has probably spend his whole time learning and practicing fighting, that's why he's a fighter and nothing else. Very unlikely, so single-class characters are unrealistic to start.



I don't agree.
A fighter is not a dumb lump.
Just because historically in D&D a fighter was a meat-shield does not mean that that sterotype must perpetuate.
Before you say it, CR : you should ALSO not be required to be a human or a brainiac to be good at anything outside of combat, either.  

The insinuation that all a fighter does is fight is absurd.
They rle-play.
they interact with people.
They do more than kill stuff.
(and if you extend the example to compare paladins, and why the hell they are just stumps that fight well and have a few overrated abilities and no real skill to interact with people, than it really gets bad..)



> Of course, the whole game concept is not highly realistic (hit points being the worst of it all).



But if the designers felt that, why did they even adopt such a flawed skills system?
I applaud the effort in 3E to join other game systems, and include skills, but over time, I'm more disenchanted with the way they implemented it.

Glossing over a gaming flaw with "It's not a realistic game, so why bother trying to fix it" is a cop-out, in my eyes.
If we can make it better, to not do so is a dereliction of our gaming duties! (the paladin in me talking) 



> I do agree somewhat, that the skill system is flawed. Either you are good at skills or you are very bad at skills, there seems to be no middle way. But you cannot simply give others more skills, because it hurts the balance and makes classes like the rogue obsolete.



This is the other commonly-held belief that is incorrect.
Since rogues ARE useful in combat (noone argues that too much), than everyone a couple more skill points per level (including the rogue) will not diminish his ability to dominate the skills arena. His list of class skills is really what sets him apart, and personally, I am not of the opinion that a fighter for example could not thru effort become a better bluffer than a rogue.



> Rogues being too powerful?
> 
> Just because they can deal damage, doesn't make them on par with a fighter's combat capabililties. And skills are by far the weakest area to be good at, since there are so many ways to get good at skills (especially magic items).



One of the most common things said in the rogue camp is that they aren't as good as a fighter in combat.
I've never said they were, but that doesn't stop rogue apologists from stating that ad nauseum.

The point is not that the rogues aren't as good as the fighter in combat.
The point is that the rogue is quite near the fighter in combat capabilities.

While out-of-combat, the rogue stomps all over the fighter (and the paladin, and the...) so damn bad that everyone else might as well be a drooling simpleton with no social skills.

But you make a good point, Thanee:
Wizards truly are the ridiculous ones.
If you took your first level in rogue, than wizard, and have average stats with a high intelligence (sun elf), and just pump your magic item creation into stat and skill-pumping items, you would BE A GOD.

How expensive would a item that casts multiple 1st level skill-pumping spells be?
Giving the wizard a choice of whatever skill-pumping spell he wanted from the 5, up to 5 per day?

Between that item or 2, and all the stat-pumping spells (Cat's Grace, Endurance, Bull's Strength, etc) the wizard could eclipse everyone in the party and literally be a paragon of humanity, unequalled in the lands!


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## Murhid (May 3, 2002)

I don't know who you game with reaper, but when I do get the chance to play in RL, the group(s) do not play like fools, they like to role-play, they like 'cool' spells/abilities etc. They don't cry that the monk or wizard is overpowered cause *add stupid reasons here*. They don't make characters to be GODS and say they can take out nations. They play for the fun of it! Your focus is too much on the system; look at it more as a game of mutual benefit not competition.

This doesn't mean I don't agree with you (I'd love to play a classless dnd), I just think you are getting overly concerned about it.

- Just my opinion anyway.


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## Thanee (May 3, 2002)

Skill enhancing items (or that completely ridiculous 1st level cleric spell from MoF (?)) are a pain, it's way too easy to get skills to extreme heights with them.

Those stat enhancing spells are really, really good as well.

As with the classes, what I was going at is, that maybe the basic classes are meant to be that limited. Fighters fight, Wizards cast spells, Rogues do skills and sneak attacks, and so on. At least those three seem very basic.

If you want to be good at several things, you have to spread out a bit (multiclassing or choosing more diverse feats).

Maybe look at it this way. A character is built from resources, the most important being class levels and feats.

You can spend those resources any way you see fit, but if you spend all those on fighting (all class levels being fighting classes and all feats being combat feats) you'll end up being a character that can do one thing (and that really good)... fighting!

BTW, a pure rogue is not even remotely as good in fighting as any of the pure fighting classes! Only if you combine ranger, fighter and add some rogue, you get a nasty fighting machine, but that's more of a fighter than a rogue (from class levels) usually.

Bye
Thanee


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## reapersaurus (May 4, 2002)

Ironic that just the past couple days there are 2 threads on the skills subject:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12096&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12054


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## Thanee (May 4, 2002)

Hehe, yup, skills (especially with bards and rangers) seems to be one of those neverdying arguments in d&d.

Bye
Thanee


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## CRGreathouse (May 8, 2002)

Thanee said:
			
		

> *Skill enhancing items (or that completely ridiculous 1st level cleric spell from MoF (?)) are a pain, it's way too easy to get skills to extreme heights with them.*




I agree that the skill enhancers are way too powerful - and the spell's bad, too.  These are major flaws in the system, IMO.


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## reapersaurus (May 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by HeavyG in the adventure thread_
> *Sorry guys, I'm really sick right now.
> 
> I'll try to update tomorrow but I can't promise anything. *



oh, man that sounds crappy.
What do you have, Heavy?

Hope you get better soon.


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## Thanee (May 12, 2002)

Same here, get better soon!

Bye
Thanee


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## HeavyG (May 27, 2002)

Wow, the boards are flipping out.

Did we lose any posts you think ?

I think I'll wait a few days to update and see what develops.


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## Thanee (May 27, 2002)

I don't think we lost anything.

These 'new' boards (actually only a new server for the old boards) should be exactly the same as we left them... before the temporary boards were uploaded!

Bye
Thanee


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## reapersaurus (May 27, 2002)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> *Wow, the boards are flipping out.
> 
> Did we lose any posts you think ?
> 
> I think I'll wait a few days to update and see what develops. *



we've already waited more than a week for them to "calm down"

I'm afraid we're stck with the inconvenience of logging in just about every post we make, but i think we should continue with the adventure.
No sense in stopping.
The boards are up, and have been stable for more than 3 days...


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## HeavyG (May 28, 2002)

Considering only 4 of the 7 players have even posted on the thread, I'd like to wait a bit.

At least until a fifth person posts his actions.


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## CRGreathouse (May 28, 2002)

I'm here.  I didn't realize we were playing on the temp boards, so I didn't see this thread until just now.


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## HeavyG (May 28, 2002)

That's what I meant.  I'm afraid we'll lose some posts when the new server starts working and we move again.

Still, I'll probably update this afternoon or tonight.


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## Murhid (May 29, 2002)

I'm pretty sure Morrus will just take the "new" boards (the ones we are on now), onto the next server. No sense in losing 2 weeks of story hours/general/IC etc. when the time to move the different time frames of boards are virtually the same. They being "www.enworld.org/messageboards/" -previous, and "test.cyberstreet.com"  - current. Well that's how I understand it, though might be best to take a copy of the post in word/notepad anyway, just in case.


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## HeavyG (May 29, 2002)

Just as a precaution, I advise everyone keeps a copy of their last post on their computer.  I always keep my last update on mine.


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## Jalon Odessa (Jun 7, 2002)

> Sollir
> Kytess
> Jalon
> Spider #2 (the one in the room)
> ...




*grin*

I love the way Jalon keep rolling so high for initiative, given that he has the lowest dex and wears the heaviest armour.


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## Murhid (Jun 8, 2002)

Cool thanks for the prestidigitation .doc.

And about this size?
|
v


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## Murhid (Jun 8, 2002)

or


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## Conaill (Jun 12, 2002)

Helloooo.... anyone still here?

What are you all waiting for??


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## Murhid (Jun 13, 2002)

HeavyG a bit busy I assume...

Glad to see your still around Conaill  !


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## HeavyG (Jun 13, 2002)

Sorry, guys, I forgot all about the game tuesday.

You see, my uncle got his passport stolen while on vacation in Europe and I had to scramble to get his passport number to him in a hurry.

I also had to prepare something for work because I was out of town today.

Tomorrow's the day, I promise.


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## Jalon Odessa (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by Sollir: (Move action to M7, trying to cast Bless)




You actually have spells left? In Tyr's name, I've been running on empty for the last 4 encounters.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 18, 2002)

Ubaar's been waiting to use his Thunderstomp for like 4 encounters, too...


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## reapersaurus (Jun 22, 2002)

Taz said:
			
		

> *, (Taz)'ll take out the wand of magic missiles and shoot a load in its direction, still holding her dagger ready for an AoO. *



maybe i shouldn't make the nudge nudge wink wink here...      
Because if Ubaar heard that, he'd say a similar phrase as he just said - "Ubaar's the only one that should be doing that (with you-know-who)!"  LOL

What can I say?
The guy's a testosterone-laden guy who likes women who can fight.

I know CR's playing Kytess as disciplined, and think's Ubaar's an scatter-brained barbarian, but the lug's not gonna give up.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 22, 2002)

Lol, Jalon, yup, thats the last bless.  I've been using my wand or my bow the whole time.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2002)

what would the rules have been if Jalon had moved right 5' ( into Kytess' square) and had Ubaar move right 5' also when the ghoul had been trying the coup-de grace?

Kytess was paralyzed, does that change any penalties (if any) for Jalon occupying and fighting in the same square?
It would have allowed Ubaar to get a AoO on the ghoul performing the CdG, right?

Just something that went thru my head that I wanted to see the rules on.
TIA.


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## Jalon Odessa (Jul 1, 2002)

Hey guys, I'll be out of town visiting my parents for the next few days (should be back home on Friday sometime).

Before I go, just thought I'd recommend heading back to town to rest up a little after this encounter - we're pretty messed up.  

Apart from that, Heavy G should have enough info to run Jalon for me.  I might have time to post Jalon's next action first thing in the morning, but if not then expect to hear from me on Friday.


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## CRGreathouse (Jul 1, 2002)

I'm all pins and needles to see what happened to Kytess.


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## Jalon Odessa (Jul 1, 2002)

Heh, me too CRG - I actually had a dream last night about whether Kytess was alive or not.

Hrmph... and some people say I take my gaming too seriously...


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## Thanee (Jul 1, 2002)

And? What did you see in your _vision_?

Bye
Thanee


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## HeavyG (Jul 2, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *what would the rules have been if Jalon had moved right 5' ( into Kytess' square) and had Ubaar move right 5' also when the ghoul had been trying the coup-de grace?
> 
> Kytess was paralyzed, does that change any penalties (if any) for Jalon occupying and fighting in the same square?
> It would have allowed Ubaar to get a AoO on the ghoul performing the CdG, right?
> *




Why didn't I see this before ?!?

Of course, it's too late now, but I'm not so sure about the rules.  Fighting in a sqaure with two prone bodies should warrant some kind of "treacherous footing" penalty to AC, innit ?


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## reapersaurus (Jul 3, 2002)

Just thought I'd link to these parts of the adventure while I was poking around today:
Part 6: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12670
Part 5: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9927
Part 4: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5659
Part 3: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=819

CR - Have you done any more great work on the archive of the story?
I just looked on my home computer and can't find it.
If you could link that first work (I think it detailed up thru the first 2 parts of the adventure?), maybe me or others could continue the archiving.
I'm taking the introduction and going to some day get it in a similar word document format.


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## CRGreathouse (Jul 3, 2002)

Reaper - I haven't done anything on the compilation since the ENnie judging started in earnest - it's a lot of work, most of which is impossible to do in advance.  I'll upload my progress to my site and post a link when I get a chance.

Edit: http://mwtools.thyle.net/Log.zip


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jul 3, 2002)

Sorry guys, I'm gone til either Friday or Saturday, Sollir will attempt to heal Murhid with his wand for his next action, twice if I'm gone for that many updates, have a fun Fourth of July


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## reapersaurus (Jul 12, 2002)

OK -  it's time for my quarterly rant.  

This is really getting frustrating (in the adventure)
Let me sum up:
we had a COUPLE knock-down, drag-out fights that have used up quite a bit of our resources, and i think each fight, we've been at about 66% party strength, due to inactivity on some of the players' parts.

This last (quite memorable - good job, Heavy!!!) fight, we have the boss guy with a visible Fire Opal on him, and again, we've got players who are either inactive or not being too effective with their actions.
(i'm not pointing fingers specifically - I'm ranting.   )

so now we've got a decision to make.
Brave the (potentially fatal) odds of this next fight, made much harder by all of us being depleted, or be realistically self-protecting and bug out of the dungeon for the second time.

Who knows where the Opal will be by the time we get back?
(God, this poison is annoying...  LOL)

I've tried floating in-character ideas for fight strategies, and by player inactivity, we have NO battle plan for this next fight.

Dopp is a no-show, Sollir is effectively a no-show, CR is slammed with Judging, Taz has been here for roleplaying much more lately (but I actually forgot Taz used the witch's wand on the ghoul because i didn't think the ghoul's were the target - the BOSS, HELLO!?), Murhid has been great in combat and roleplay, Jalon has occassionally been absent, and I've been slicing everything and their brother to bits.

I don't even know how many Pc's have a ranged weapon to do a back-up-and-shoot strategy against the (slower?) ghouls.
I haven't heard one PC's response to the turning idea, channeling all the cleric's powers thru Jalon.
I don't know how much more of a beating us front-liners can take.
If we DO melee, we're gonna need those CLW wands to be used in the middle of battle, which doesn't bode well.
That was great teamwork last battle with the healing by Jalon (Sollir is actually much better at healing than the other things...  LOL), or I know Ubaar would have dropped way earlier in the fight.

So.

Do you guys want to say anything OOC about the adventure in general?
How bout about my rant in detail?

I'll keep trying occasionally to spur communication.
Especially when i like the adventure so much. (so many PBP's get stillborn due to lack of communication)


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## Thanee (Jul 12, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> (but I actually forgot Taz used the witch's wand on the ghoul because i didn't think the ghoul's were the target - the BOSS, HELLO!?)




Not really, the target was the ghoul trying to CDG Kytess. Unfortunately Jalon and Taz could not do enough damage to drop it in time, but at least Kytess seems to have succeeded in her Fortitude save! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Murhid (Jul 13, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I don't even know how many Pc's have a ranged weapon to do a back-up-and-shoot strategy against the (slower?) ghouls.*



Most of us, if not all have ranged weapons, that's if you count Murhid's shurikens . So the only problem with that are the two smaller folk (20ft move), how fast do these ghouls move though...


> *I don't know how much more of a beating us front-liners can take.
> If we DO melee, we're gonna need those CLW wands to be used in the middle of battle, which doesn't bode well. *



Murhid isn't really a front-liner, though has taken that role in the last and this battle, so I second that. And so long as the ghouls don't flank etc. and the healers are in the rear (assuming Murhid's plan is heard), they shouldn't incur AoO's.


> *Do you guys want to say anything OOC about the adventure in general?*



On the topic of inactivity, sometimes this game feels like a normal RL game but the players keep getting drinks when we are in combat, LoL. But hey, that's the nature of these pbp games I spose.

And as for Murhid's plan, he doesn't really know too much, he is just frustrated and wants a little form instead of us all just standing in disarray.


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## HeavyG (Jul 13, 2002)

I agree this has to be discussed.

I'll update on monday or so.


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## Jalon Odessa (Jul 15, 2002)

I'll begin with an apology to everyone, and especially Heavy G:  this week's been my last week of university holidays, so I've been living it up for the last few days.  I've spent the last five or six days away from home and without internet access, so I haven't been able to post.  If I'd have known I'd be away that long I would have told you guys alot earlier.

Secondly, however, I'm really keen to continue with the game, now that I'm back at uni and my schedule has returned to normal.  I should be able to post every day from now on, assuming everyone else is also available.

As for shooting the ghouls, Jalon's got a 20' move and a light crossbow with an attack bonus of +1 - I don't think he'll be too helpful with ranged combat.  I think turning's a much better option, with assists from the other clerics, if possible.  

I think a much better option would be to escape the dungeon and heal up, though, or to hole ourselves up in  a nearby room with wands of CLW for a few rounds or so.  Jalon (and everyone else in the party for that matter) is out of offensive spells, but still has alot of CLW charges, and some turning attempts left.  If we just healed the HP damage, we should have enough tanking power to survive the combat (hopefully).

Hmm... So what's the concensus, people?  Should we stay or should we go?  I'll wait to post Jalon's action until I've heard from you guys in this thread...


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## reapersaurus (Jul 15, 2002)

OK - nice to hear some opinions.

Couple thoughts:
First, it seems like from CR's IC post, that Kytess wants to stay and fight.
Only thing missing is what "plan" she prefers.
It seems Taz is ready to put some magic-missile hurting down.
Murhid seems willing to fight, and prefers the back-up and shoot plan (so do I - it gives more damage to the ghouls, and allows us to get further back towards the exit if we have to.)
Jalon seems to want to try to turn some of them (finally!  ) and is the only player (?) who wants to leave and heal up.
Ivellios and Sollir are no-shows.

Second:
About the continual no-showing.
I have had it.
I think FROM THEIR ACTIONS OVER MONTHS, we can forget about Dopp and Sollir joining our little game.
I'm disappointed that Dopp never did much but antagonize - it seemed like he's very capable of roleplaying a character.
I'm surprised Sollir never added much to the campaign. He roleplays and posts very often in many other PBP adventures, I never understood why he never could get into character with Sollir (his first IC, IIRC).
Them boosting the effective level of our group has made things a lot harder (and potentially deadlier) than it would have been without them.
I just wonder how and when we can make the dump of the deadwood.

Third:
So if we get Kytess' preferred strategy vote, we can plop characters in the map and ready for battle?!
(What Heavy decides to do with Ivellios and Sollir, I have no clue...)


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## Jalon Odessa (Jul 16, 2002)

Jalon's all for sticking around too - lots of undead to smite in the name of Tyr.  It's just that as a player I'm not quite so overzealous.  

And he's tried to turn undead a few times this adventure, with mixed results (ie - great turning checks against the ghosts, horrible ones against the ghouls with their turn resistance).  I'm not sure how successful he'll be this time, but it's the most sensible approach to take, both in and out-of-character.  I think he's still got four turning attempts left today, so he can attempt for at least a couple of rounds (as long as Sollir, Ivelios and Ubaar take over with healing duties for those rounds).


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## reapersaurus (Jul 16, 2002)

Ubaar's not gonna be healing anyone in the middle of battle! 
Ubaar's prolly the only cleric that doesn't have a "medic-on-a-stick" (CLW wand).

And I got ya, Jalon - as a player, I think we're pushing things a bit by continuing.
Especially since it's so hard to plan things with only a few people participating each round.
If we're outnumbered by much, and that ghoul boss is able to Hold us and stuff, any one of us could easily go down and killing so many ghouls hasn't helped our struggle so far.  

But the roleplay has gotten us to this point so far:  it seems that a battle may occur, and we are undecided as to how to best go about it.

Not good for the chances of getting out alive.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jul 16, 2002)

If you want to kick me out, that's fine, but even though I may not show up all the time, I'm still interesting in playing, perhaps just a bit too much of a procrastinator though


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## Thanee (Jul 16, 2002)

You might just post a little more often (i.e. actively show, that your interest in this game is still there), is that so much to be asked, Sollir? 

About the upcoming fight, Taz would probably prefer to rest, as she would be of more use with at least a shield spell up and running, but then the ghouls might escape with the fire opal. Also, the ghoul boss has already used a hold person spell, so maybe he doesn't have one left now?

If those weren't undeads, Taz would have some potent weapons available still, but alas, they will not work against these.

Healing up is a good idea, tho. We can need every hit point in this (final?) encounter, especially on the ones that will go toe to toe with the ghouls.

Bye
Thanee


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## drs (Jul 16, 2002)

Excellent points Thanee.

As a player and character wise, I would like to at least try to defeat these guys. So long as they don't use great tactics, the boss is disabled, and there is no disposable dragon around the corner, I *think* we should be fine . Oh and on that note, we need to get some spears or something that can be readied against a charge... [HG just ignore that last bit ]

On inactivity:
I don't think the amount Sollir posts is the main problem. As I think has been stated before, Sollir (the character) just seems a little flat, even more so than a typical cryptic monk. So I suggest to you Sollir that you try to role-play (for some reason that word is getting frustrating) a little more, or charge the ghouls, hope they kill you, and hope HG let's you roll up a new character .

On Dopp, well like already said, I don't think he will be joining us any longer.


So to try and make some ground lets decide; We stay and fight the ghouls, use the back-up and shoot plan (aim at the boss if he is visible), clerics attempt at turning the ghouls, and if all else fails run to town/or some doorway we can pop Ubaar in with 2 CLW wands strapped to him .

Yea or Nay?


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## Thanee (Jul 16, 2002)

We could also try to overwhelm the boss, grab the jewel and get the heck outta there really fast! 

Bye
Thanee


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## HeavyG (Jul 16, 2002)

Sollir, I don't want to kick you out.  I mean, sure you don't contribute much but you don't take anything _away_ from the game either, so I don't mind if you stay.

Still, it is a little bit of extra work for me to write up your actions and the monster's reactions to them, so I certainly wouldn't mind if you posted more.

Doppleganger, though, we haven't seen for, what, a month ?  Unless he has a pretty good reason for not posting for such a long time, he's out.  I think it's just lack of interest on his part, though, so I don't think he'll mind.


When you have a plan, post your positions in the IC thread and I'll unpause the game.


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## Jalon Odessa (Aug 2, 2002)

This post's main purpose is to ressurect the OOC thread (For some reason I can sense that alot of OOC commentry will be required in this combat ), but I also just wanted to to thank Heavy G for putting up with all of our crazy plans and 'heroics' without killing us all off.  Seriously 'G, you're a great DM.  I always enjoy reading your flavour text for the combat scenes and whatnot.

Just thought that you might want some assurance that we do, in fact, appreciate the effort you put into the game.  Lord knows that DMing can be a thankless task sometimes.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 2, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *I like it.  This kind of trick can make the game fun - I don't want to feel that the game is rigged, but the chance to be heroic rather than a corpse is generally preferable.
> 
> I'll echo Jalon's thoughts on the OOC thread: Great job, HeavyG!  Keep it up! *



I wanted to add pure OOC talk here, so I'll use the resurrected OOC thread to do so. (since, obviously, the only thing Ubaar can do In Character is bleed.)   

Heavy, I think you've been fantastic the WHOLE time, and dealt with many requests and lapses incredibly successfully, and your continued effort and dogged determination to see this "little" adventure threu has been a truly inspiring thing. It's the only thing that has helped me keep my faith in online gaming alive (due to so many other campaigns being dropped by DM's and players).

I've had a blast playing one of my favorite PC's (Ubaar) that I don't get to play IRL (unfortunately).

I especially appreciate that flub that allowed us to get our one last shot in. I hadn't realized that a delayed action would have made us endure 4+ AoO's PLUS a whole round's worth of attacks!   

The smart move, of course, would have been to continue mowing down the beasties one at a time till we outnumberd and out-positioned the boss.
But I couldn't see doing that, and was worried about the boss getting away again.
That last round didn't strain my believability. That's important to me, as a player. Most times, the bad guy seems to hang around when he knows he's gonna die.
I can believe  that ghoul boss thought he'd be protected for a bit longer. 

And lastly - thanks for taking a bit of extra effort to heroically describe last round's actions. 
I like the way that played out, and it wasn't melodramatic at the same time.

Game on!
(for a little while longer, at least....   I'm gonna miss this adventure when it's gone)  *sniff*


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## Thanee (Aug 2, 2002)

Can't thank you enough for your fantastic DMing, Heavy G! You're great! 

Hmmm... maybe I shouldn't have let Taz start thinking about how to get the Fire Opal from the ghoul boss, should he turn to flee again! Might have led to some suicidal... err... heroic... action! 

Bye
Thanee

P.S. with the death at negative CON, reaper means, that you bleed until -|CON| (i.e. -14, if CON is 14) instead of -10, before you die. It's a house rule, I suppose, I know it from 2nd Edition, where we played like this.


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## HeavyG (Aug 3, 2002)

*sniff*

You guys are great.

*sniff*

I promised myself I wouldn't cry.




			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> * P.S. with the death at negative CON, reaper means, that you bleed until -|CON| (i.e. -14, if CON is 14) instead of -10, before you die. It's a house rule, I suppose, I know it from 2nd Edition, where we played like this. *




Yeah, I know.  That was a subtle attempt at communicating the fact that I don't usually play with that rule. 

If it had been discussed beforehand, I wouldn't mind, but I don't want to change the rules right now.

You'll have to put some effort into it, dammit. 




Finally, looks like I'll have to take the bus tonight for my vacation instead of tomorrow, so I'll do a quick update for now and we'll see each others in about a week, okay ?

Good week, y'all ! 

*sniff*


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## Murhid (Aug 3, 2002)

You probably won't see this by the time you leave, but have a safe and fun vacation HG!

And as always I'm thankful for all the work you've done and the fun times!


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## reapersaurus (Aug 17, 2002)

So how long you want to keep going, Heavy?

I think we should in-character move back to the inn, get what healing we can, and get back to Archibald's.

Heavy's spent more than his share of time guiding our merry band, if he wants to finish up.

Just for nostalgia, here's Heavy's first adventure post on Sept 14th, 2001:







> This is a thread for the beginning of the non-Iconic (but still cool) PBP adventure, formerly known as Samnell's non-Iconic (but still cool) PBP.
> I will be your DM, Heavy G.
> 
> This is a closed game, which means that the players have been determined (in another thread) and are numerous enough that I won't be accepting any more players. As in Piratecat's game, I will ask a moderator to delete any thread by non-players.
> ...



Remember guys that it was Samnell who started it rolling?
Heavy, what did you mean by "very short adventure as a warm-up?"  The fake-battle interview?


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