# Marvel Avengers, 1889 [Full]



## Karl Green (Jul 28, 2007)

_*LONDON, Eighteen Hundred and Eighty Nine.* 

The Victorian Age is in its latter day, 
as the final decade of the 19th century begins. 
It is a time of great change in an age of stagnation, 
a period of chaste order and ignoble chaos. 
Yet still... it is an Age of Wonders. 

*And there came a day, a day unlike any other, 
when Earth's mightiest heroes found themselves united against a common threat. 
On that day, the AVENGERS were born! 
Banding together to thwart foes no single Man Of Renown could withstand, 
they fight for love of Country, Queen and the Future!* 

Come with me now friends. You urchins and educated audience, as we begin our memorium of thrills and chuckles. 
Though let us not forget the many serious and morally instructive points there are within this narrative… 
- *Firstly*: Women, though precious, will always go on and make a fuss. Also, they may swoon at times. 
- *Secondly*: The German and Chinese are brilliant... but evil. 
- *Lastly*: Laudanum, taken in moderation is good for the eyesight and prevents kidney-stones. 

With these dictums in mind, allow me to wish you many hours of pictorial pleasure. 

Stand straight true believers!! 
AVENGERS, if man ye be and not some craven dog of Flanders -- let loose a hearty HUZZAH!! 

*Long live the Queen!*_


AND NOW THE TEAM!!
*The Incredible Mister Hulk* (played by *hero4hire*; character done)
*The Savage Wolverine* (played by *Jemal*; character done)
*Captain Britania* (played by *Elric*; character done)
*Justice!* (played by *Redclaw*; character done)
*The Scarlet Witch* (played by *the_myth*; character done)
*Black Widow, the Spider-Woman* (played by *Shayruri*; character done)
*The Mighty Thor* (played by *Blind Azathot*)
and *Ronin* (played by *Necro Kinder*)

I found a nice map of London 1887, HERE

===

OK so crazy idea… a friend of mine (Demongg) and I had been playing a M&M 2nd ed game based on Marvel’s Avengers… but in 1889. Sort of a ‘re-imagined’ Marvel heroes game, somewhat similar in style to Marvel 1602, but into a Victorian England state of mind. Kevin (Demongg) ran the intro game and I ran one adventure when we moved on to something else. I was much depressed by the move and I am thinking about running a play-by-post version of this game here. What I am thinking is that the first adventure I would run would be after the team has formed. With the Avenger Mansion located in the Tower of London, the Avengers have been wildly accepted by the masses. New foes have arising, but the Avengers stand ready to thwart them!

Now I am not 100% ready to run this yet, and looking for interest. A big admission from me is that I will post, but if people stop posting I can get discourage, so I would only ask that if things seem slow, just post something your character is thinking or doing to let me know that people are still interested in the game. 

The game would use *Mutants and Masterminds* 2nd edition, along with *Ultimate Powers*. Power Level 8 with 150 power points. Trade-off are allowed but I would like to see most within +2/-2 with a maximum of +4/-4. I of course want to look over all characters before they are approved. I am thinking maybe 4 or 5 players… I might go to 6 but that would have to be the hard maximum. 

ORIGINS – and to better reflect the Victorian age, your hero should be from one or more of the following Origins
*Alien* – from out-space (Mars) or from beyond the ‘veil’ (Feye, etc)… 
*Mad Science* – the product of invention, or some chemical elixir…  
*Mystic* – magic items or spellcasting ability, etc
*Son of Darwin* – born with these strange gifts that manifested generally in puberty… 
*Tutelage* – super training of the far east or just a darn good boxer from the docks… 

If you are interested, please post whom you would be most interested in playing… maybe 2 or 3 characters maximum. Note again that I don’t really want original characters for this game… former or current members of the Marvel Avengers are whom I am looking for, sorry. I feel that as I am allowing LOTS of levy-way with these characters anyway, you are not locked into a personality that you personally don’t want to play. 

Characters can use any Marvel Average that they would like, and re-imagine them (their look, their name, their history, their sex, whatever) as they see fit BUT still retaining the _basics_ of the character. Some examples of this that were batted around that I thought were very keen (note I don’t expect anyone to use any of these, even if they want to play an Avenger based on one of these)…

*The Mighty Thor*: Doctor Donald Blake is a gentleman surgeon working in the poorer regions of London after having been wounded in India. During one of his operations on an old and blind Danish man that was beaten badly, the man passes along his plain wooden staff to transform him into the MIGHTY THOR. 
Donald Blake struggles with his marriage to young Miss Foster as he is an emasculated and nebbish man while Thor is both grand and dynamic. 

*Lord Iron*: Baron Anthony Stark was a English manufacturer of weapons and scientist far ahead of his time when he was captured by Captain Nemo after his latest battleship was sunk. Studying the strange sciences under Nemo, he realized that he needed to serve a greater cause than himself. 
Having adapted the technology, the Steam powered Iron Giant now protects London as he has constructed his own sub and operates from a Mysterious Island alcove off the British isles. He struggles with drink and his own prediction of a War like any other. 

*Captain Britainia*: Alan Quartermain's sickly son survived his time in Africa where he was given a special herb formula while visiting dark and mysterious Wakanda. Trained by the Native Savages in their martial arts (especially the BLACK PANTHER), Steve Quartermain has returned to his British homes a Tarzan like Lord amongst men. 
Not accustomed to civilized justice he uses his Wakandan/Zulu like metal shield with the Union jack on it to fight crime. 

*The Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver*: Two gypsies imported as part of a Circus where they were kept as part of a sideshow attraction by the unscrupulous Mister Sinister using his own powers of mesmerism. The two have broken free but their color and foreign nature makes them perpetual outcasts along with their strange abilities. 
They hide their abilities and dwell in squalor. 

*The Golem and his father Goliath*: Jewish Rabbi Ezekiel Pym has long studied the Secrets of God to communicate with insects, gain the strength of Goliath, and work upon protecting his people from evils that would imperil them. To this end, he has created two golems from parts of his own spirit. 
One that works to destroy all whom have oppressed the Jews from his anger. The second being a much more forgiving and noble man that was constructed out of the image of the slain brother of his wife Jeanette, Simon. 



Note now, that this game takes place during the 1889. There are a LOT of weird and somethings uncomfortable ideas that came out of this period. I am NOT going to play that standard racism, sexism and social norms of this time period, in fact it will be a bit of a ‘rosy’ unrealistic enlightened outlook, with MOST of these themes pushed to the background… but there may be some (and again it will be more comic book fear and hatred), and I don’t want to offend people. Recognize it for what it is, just a aspect of the game, or I could drop it all but I am not sure if the game would feel even close to right, and why not run it in the modern day then. 

Finally this game is based on a comic book… and as such, comic book logic and all that apply


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## hero4hire (Jul 28, 2007)

*The Strange Case of Doctor Banner and Mister Hulk*

Doctor Robert Banner, an esteemed Psychiatrist and Physician from Cavendish Square,
was studying a way to unlock a persons inner personality, to tap into the hidden strength from within. Normal techniques and theories only led him to dead-ends. So he turned to Alchemy, and during one promising experiment he was accidentilly interrupted by the House Boy, Richard. After the resulting explosion Banner found that, in times of stress he would turn into the entity known as "Mister Hulk" a monstrous specimen of physicality, unhindered by modern society's restraints.


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## Jemal (Jul 28, 2007)

This sounds SO sweet..
Would Sersi be allowable?
If not, I'd have to choose between Spider-man and Wolverine (who were both part of the Avengers at times)


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## hero4hire (Jul 28, 2007)

*Simon Williams, Man of Wonder*

Son of Wilford Williams a Munitions Factory Owner who was run out of Business by the innovations of Baron Anthony Stark. Wilford took his own life and his son Simon vowed vengeance. He made a deal with an Evil German Scientist Zemo, making him a Man of Wonder, but in the end could not murder Stark and he betrayed Zemo. Zemo in retribution took Williams life. Recently Simon has risen from the dead, why no one knows.
Is anything beyond the capabilities of the Man of Wonder?


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## hero4hire (Jul 28, 2007)

*Sir Francis Clinton aka The Hawk*

obviously inspired by Zorro and Robin Hood.

Rich Blueblood by day, Masked Vigilante Archer at night.

No real details yet, just barebones idea.


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## Jemal (Jul 28, 2007)

ON second thought, Sersi has WAY too many powers to be effectively portrayed in a game...

Hmm, the Amazing Spider Man or the Ferocious Wolverine


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## Redclaw (Jul 28, 2007)

The Black Knight

Seems a bit too obvious, but certainly would be a great fit for the Tower et al.

Dane Whitman, a young scientist whose ideas are too far-fetched to be given any credence by his contemporaries, discovers he is the descendant of Sir Percy of Scandia, knight of the Round Table.  In further exploring his family history he is able to discover the burial site of his ancestor, and there finds his legendary Ebon Sword.  Using the scientific theories that his peers ridiculed, Whitman created a winged horse to carry him into battle and started preparing himself for the inevitable return of his ancestor's mortal enemy: Mordred.
It is only after he has begun to battle the evil he sees in the world around him that he realizes the sword he is using carries a strange curse.


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## Karl Green (Jul 28, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> *The Strange Case of Doctor Banner and Mister Hulk*






			
				hero4hire said:
			
		

> *Simon Williams, Man of Wonder*






			
				hero4hire said:
			
		

> *Sir Francis Clinton aka The Hawk*




Any one of these would be most Excellent indeed!!



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> ON second thought, Sersi has WAY too many powers to be effectively portrayed in a game...
> 
> Hmm, the Amazing Spider Man or the Ferocious Wolverine




I like both of these characters a great deal, so if you are interested in either…




			
				Redclaw said:
			
		

> The Black Knight




Sounds very cool, and nothing is to obvious for comics


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## ethandrew (Jul 28, 2007)

A game like this makes me wish I knew the M&M game system. It sounds like a blast!


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## hero4hire (Jul 28, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> A game like this makes me wish I knew the M&M game system. It sounds like a blast!





its pretty easy...D20 with Superpowers and Damage Saves instead of HP and you got 90% of it.


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## Karl Green (Jul 28, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> A game like this makes me wish I knew the M&M game system. It sounds like a blast!






			
				hero4hire said:
			
		

> its pretty easy...D20 with Superpowers and Damage Saves instead of HP and you got 90% of it.




Indeed it is... if you have a character idea in mind I am sure someone would stat it out for you and then we can explain most of the 'rules'

As H4H said, the big difference is Hit Points and Damage; Damage is no longer rolled, instead you have a fixed bonus to damage (say +3, which is the average for a pistol), and the target of your attack rolls a Damage Save (called Toughness) to avoid some or all of the damages affects. 

There are lots of other things of course but...


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## Elric (Jul 28, 2007)

Karl Green- I don't think I'll end up wanting to play in this pbp (one pbp is enough for me), but this game looks like tons of fun.  Also, your Captain Britania idea is great- I really liked Henry Rider Haggard's books and I like Captain America type characters.

So if I were to play, I'd play something like this.  Update: this game looks like too much fun to pass up on- I'll probably try to play 

There may be some minor math errors- also, thanks to Baron, MDSnowman and Taliesin on ATT whose Captain America builds I borrowed from liberally.

Captain Britania Power Level 8 (150 pp)
[sblock]
STR 22 (+6), DEX 22 (+6), CON 22 (+6), INT 12 (+1), WIS 16 (+3), CHA 18 (+4) 
(52 abilities)

Combat: Attack +4 (+8 melee) [+6 dmg (unarmed), +8 dmg (shield bash)] Defense 18 (13 flat-footed), Initiative +10, Move (in feet) 100 move action/200 double-move/400 sprint, 
(20 combat)

Saves: Toughness +8, Fortitude +8, Reflex +8, Will +8
(9 saves)

Skills: Acrobatics 8 (+14), Bluff 4 (+8), Climb 4 (+10), Diplomacy 8 (+12), Handle Animal 4 (+8), Intimidate 8 (+12), Knowledge (History) 4 (+5), Knowledge (tactics) 8 (+9), Medicine 4 (+6), Notice 8 (+11), Sense Motive 8 (+11), Stealth 8 (+14), Survival 4 (+7), Swim 4 (+10), Languages (English, Swahili, German, French, Arabic)
(21 skills)

Feats: Accurate Attack, Acrobatic Bluff, Assessment, Attack Focus: Melee (4), Benefit (Status: Renown), Defensive Attack, Diehard, Elusive Target, Endurance, Equipment (1), Evasion 2, Fearless, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Inspire 5, Interpose, Leadership, Luck (2), Master Plan, Power Attack, Takedown Attack 2, Teamwork 2, Track, Ultimate Effort (Ultimate Toughness Save), Uncanny Dodge (Hearing)
(35 feats)

(13 powers)
Powers: Device 2 (Shield, easy to lose, restricted [functions as large shield for anyone else], indestructible) (8pp)
Leaping 1, Speed 1
Immunity (Diseases), Super-Strength 1

Shield: Enhanced Dodge Focus 3 (Enhanced Feats: Improved Critical, Improved Defense, Improved Block, Weapon Bind) 
Strike 2 [Mighty]

Equipment: Chainmail (Protection 2)[/sblock]


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## the_myth (Jul 28, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> *The Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver*: Two gypsies imported as part of a Circus where they were kept as part of a sideshow attraction by the unscrupulous Mister Sinister using his own powers of mesmerism. The two have broken free but their color and foreign nature makes them perpetual outcasts along with their strange abilities.
> They hide their abilities and dwell in squalor.




Working from this idea...

Foundlings from Transia, Wanda and Pietro Maximoff fled their home when the local villagers blamed the strange twins for every misfortune.  Pietro, who could run like the wind, and Wanda, who had phenomenal luck at just about anything, wandered Europe until Mister Sinister recruited them into his traveling circus.  Billed as Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, the twins used their talents to amuse townsfolk, who presumed their amazing feats were but mere tricks.  One day, while visiting England with the circus, the twins realized Sinister was manipulating them, so they fled hoping to find solace elsewhere.  But two uneducated gypsies alone in England could not find reliable work or a safe home.  reduced to poverty, the twins did whatever they could to survive and hide from Sinister.

Eventually Wanda came to be employed by an old woman named Agatha Harkness.  Dame Agatha was visiting from America and offered Wanda a job as her companion.  Reluctant to leave her brother, Wanda begged Agatha to hire him as well.  But Pietro had already made the decision for both of them and ran off without a goodbye.  It was then that Agatha revealed her true intentions-- she was a witch and wanted Wanda to become her apprentice!  Because of her extraordinary luck, Wanda had already become acquainted with the occult arts in order to explain it away, so she trained in sorcery for seven years, eventually becoming a true witch.  Wanda has now returned to England in search of her brother in the hope that he will return with her to America.

M&M ideas:

from the Sons of Darwin line:  Wanda's hex powers from the comics will be transformed into Luck Control and Probability Control of some sort.  Instead of being entropy/bad luck-based, I am re-envisioning them as good luck.  After all, one person's good luck is usually another's bad luck anyway.

From the magic line:  Wanda is a trained witch.  While the comics-version has always vacillated between explaining Wanda's powers as mutant or magic or both, I'll make the 2 distinct, which will also ease rules efficiency.  She'll get some standard magical abilities, but they won't be as powerful as a dedicated sorcerer's would be, which also reflects her newbie status as a magic-wielder.


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## Shayuri (Jul 28, 2007)

This is gonna mark me an apostate, but I have the darndest time trying to remember which superhero was on what team when.

Is there a list of all the possible Avengers? Then I can do some searches, figure out who looks coolest, and do the conversion...


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## Elric (Jul 28, 2007)

Wikipedia has what's probably a good list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Avengers_members


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## the_myth (Jul 28, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> This is gonna mark me an apostate, but I have the darndest time trying to remember which superhero was on what team when.
> 
> Is there a list of all the possible Avengers? Then I can do some searches, figure out who looks coolest, and do the conversion...





Wikipedia is your friend....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Avengers_members

[Edit:  DRAT!  Elric's Google-fu is better than mine!]


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## James Heard (Jul 29, 2007)

Doctor Strange is the heroic moniker of the revered doctor and professor of naturalism of the same name. Professionally trained at both Oxford and Arkham Universities, the good doctor has made a name for himself as a sleuth of unnatural means. Wearing his trademark deerstalker hat and his mysterious Eye of Agamotto Strange has long been one of the leading minds on the natural and supernatural world. Sir Stephen was knighted ten years ago for his work in determining the causes of and outlining preventative cures for outbreaks of malaria learned from his long sabbatical in the Himalayas.


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## Blind Azathoth (Jul 29, 2007)

Two things.

1. This is the greatest idea for a game ever. 

2. Would a West Coast-only Avenger be allowed? I am thinking, specifically, of Moon Knight.


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## Elric (Jul 29, 2007)

Ok, here's an updated build of Captain Britania.  This game looks like too much fun to pass up- I think I'm going to try to play.

CAPTAIN BRITANIA

"AVENGERS, COMBINE!!" (I've really got to work on that )

[sblock]
PL: 8  (150 pp)

ABILITIES:   STR: 22 (+6)  DEX: 22 (+6)   CON: 22 (+6)   INT: 12 (+1)   WIS: 16 (+3)   CHA: 18 (+4)

SKILLS:  Acrobatics 8 (+14), Bluff 4 (+8), Climb 4 (+10), Concentration  (+3), Diplomacy 8 (+12), Disguise  (+4), Drive  (+6), Escape Artist  (+6), Gather Info  (+4), Handle Animal 4 (+8), Intimidate 8 (+12), History 4 (+5), Tactics 8 (+9), Medicine 4 (+7), Notice 8 (+11), Search  (+1), Sense Motive 8 (+11), Stealth 8 (+14), Survival 8 (+11), Swim 4 (+10) 

FEATS:  Accurate Attack, Acrobatic Bluff, Animal Empathy, Attack Focus: Melee (5), Benefit (Status: Renown), Defensive Attack, Diehard, Elusive Target, Endurance (1), Equipment (1), Evasion (2), Fearless, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative (1), Inspire (5), Interpose, Leadership, Luck (2), Master Plan, Power Attack, Takedown Attack (2), Teamwork (2), Track, Ultimate Effort (Ultimate Toughness Save), Uncanny Dodge (Hearing)

POWERS:  Speed [1], Leaping [1], Super-Strength [1], Immunity 1 (Diseases) [1], Device (Easy to Lose, PF: Indestructible, Restricted- functions as large shield for anyone else) [2], 

_Shield_: Enhanced Dodge Focus 3, Strike 2 (PF: Mighty), Enhanced Feats: Improved Critical, Improved Defense, Improved Block, Weapon Bind

Equipment: Chain mail (Protection 2), 3 points unspent

COMBAT:  Attack +3 (+8 melee) [Unarmed +6 dmg, Shield +8 dmg, Crit 19-20]   Defense 18 (13 flat-footed)(Uncanny Dodge: Hearing)   Init  +10

Move: 100 ft as a move action/200 ft double-move/400 ft sprint
Jump: 32 ft running long, 16 ft standing long, 8 ft high jump

SAVES:  Toughness +8 (+8 flat-footed)  Fortitude +8  Reflex +8 (Evasion 2)  Will +8

Abilities 52  +  Skills 23 (92 ranks)  +  Feats 37  +  Powers 13  +  Combat 16  +  Saves 9  –  Drawbacks 0 = 150 / 150[/sblock]


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## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl Green- I don't think I'll end up wanting to play in this pbp (one pbp is enough for me), but this game looks like tons of fun.  Also, your Captain Britania idea is great- I really liked Henry Rider Haggard's books and I like Captain America type characters.
> 
> So if I were to play, I'd play something like this.  Update: this game looks like too much fun to pass up on- I'll probably try to play
> 
> ...





I can't take credit for Captain Britania, but it was a very cool idea


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## the_myth (Jul 29, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> The game would use *Mutants and Masterminds* 2nd edition, along with *Ultimate Powers*. Power Level 8 with 150 power points. Trade-off are allowed but I would like to see most within +2/-2 with a maximum of +4/-4. I of course want to look over all characters before they are approved. I am thinking maybe 4 or 5 players… I might go to 6 but that would have to be the hard maximum.





Hmm...PL 8 is 120 points, but PL 10 is 150.   Is this a special rule you're using?


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## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

James Heard said:
			
		

> Doctor Strange




Kewl


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## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

Blind Azathoth said:
			
		

> Two things.
> 
> 1. This is the greatest idea for a game ever.
> 
> 2. Would a West Coast-only Avenger be allowed? I am thinking, specifically, of Moon Knight.




Yes, even the Great Lake Avengers are fair game... so long as you have an Victorian bend 

AND if everyone whom has posted interested so far is making up characters then we are a looking a full


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## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

Well more then I thought but…

Hero4Hire – Incredible Hulk, Man of Wonder or Hawkeye
Jemal – Spiderman or Wolverine 
Redclaw – the Black Knight
Elric – Captain Britania
the_myth – the Scarlet Witch
Shayruri – someone (just reserving you a spot)
James Heard – Doctor Strange
Blind Azathot – Moon Knight 

Should be a very cool mix... OK I will work up the first game (just expand the one I ran face-to-face, secret title right now) and create a Rogue Gallery. Stat up your characters as you wish, and your backgrounds with something Victorian is all I ask


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## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> Hmm...PL 8 is 120 points, but PL 10 is 150.   Is this a special rule you're using?




Yep, part of it I want you to have the extra points for a while range of stuff... and 120 is only the suggested power points in 2nd ed  The power level is a bit lower just to better reflect the setting in my mind... also I would not mind it if people keep Movement powers somewhat within reason (not that there are any speedsters or big fliers so far)


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## Redclaw (Jul 29, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> (not that there are any speedsters or big fliers so far)




Other than the knight's winged horse, you mean.


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## Jemal (Jul 29, 2007)

As much As I'd love to play Spider-man, the webslinger just doesn't 'swing' quite so well when the avg building is so low to the ground.
As such, I'll be posting my Wolverine build shortly. (And his background doesn't really need that much changing.. Mystery is always mystery... though the Adamantine would have to be explained with magic instead of science, I think...

OR, here's a strange idea...
According to Wolverine's history, he was actually alive in 1889.. younger and minus the adamantine.  And there's the fact that he's known to have travelled the world..  
Maybe Wolverine was an Avenger before Captain America.


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## James Heard (Jul 29, 2007)

I don't see why you couldn't use science really, if you wanted to. I think the problem area is the whole mutant/government project angle myself. I think that, personally, I'd go for something more like a "tortured by the evil Dr. Moreau" thing, and maybe play up the Canadian thing as a gold prospector.


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## Shayuri (Jul 29, 2007)

Hmm...

Firestar was in there for awhile, it seems...she's kind of fun.

Or the Vision. He might be tricky to do in Victorian. Steampunk android?

The Fabulous Man of Tomorrow! Representing a Bolde Vision of What Is To Come!

HMMM


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## Jemal (Jul 29, 2007)

Well, after Wolverine got amnesia(the first time), he spent several years as a Miner in BC... Maybe he then started travelling and was captured by *Insert Mad Scientist/magician here*, who did experiments on him, transmuting his skeleton into a nigh-indestructible metal before the 'wolverine' managed to escape, eventualy being found by other members of the 'avengers' and re-civilized (a bit) wherupon he joined the team out of gratitude and a sense of wanting to belong somewhere.
Their reason for letting him could be the same as the original reason the New Avengers allowed him in.. "I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do isn't very nice"


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## the_myth (Jul 29, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hmm...
> 
> Firestar was in there for awhile, it seems...she's kind of fun.
> 
> ...





so many possibilities!

Clockwork mechanical man.  Golem.  Living statue.  Frankenstein's monster rip-off!


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## hero4hire (Jul 29, 2007)

I will work up a build tonight/tomorrow.

I think I am going to go with the Hulk. 

*One* He was an original Avenger

*Two* The parallels to the story Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde (which is set in the same time period as the game) is too compelling to pass up.


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## Redclaw (Jul 29, 2007)

All right, I'm new to M&M, but purchased the pdf files.  I think I've got the Knight mostly figured out, but I have a few questions that some of you with more experience might be able to help me with.
First of all, would his horse count as a device?  If so, my total ranks for device is still limited to 8, right?  Meaning, for example, 6 ranks in the sword and 2 in the horse?
Next, using the sword's power points, I think I covered the cutting ability (penetrating strike), energy absorption and deflection (straightforward), but I can't seem to find good fits for its effectiveness in cutting through mystical barriers, or Dane's ability to call it back to him if it gets lost.  Anything you all can suggest?
Finally (for now) am I right in my understanding that Attack Focus (melee) allows me to spend only 14 points on attack, as I wouldn't benefit from the feat if I put in 16 for a +8?

Thanks,
'Claw


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## Shayuri (Jul 29, 2007)

Hmm...we've got enough steampunk technodudes, I think. And Scarlet Witch/Dr. Strange have the mystic angle sewed up pretty well.

Jemal's right about Spiderman, but what about Spider-woman? She actually flies, as I recall...or at least glides. Or Firestar...a definite flier...

Then I just need to work on a period background for one of 'em...

Hah! It amuses me. The best period name for spiderwoman is...Black Widow!

Perhaps some kind of merging... Russian lass, an immigrant perhaps, or daughter of a Russian noble with holdings in England. Perhaps her father is into dark arts, some pagan spider-demon...she turns against him though, and joins forces with GOODNESS...but always has that kind of sinister thing going for her. Hee.

Black Widow - The Spider-Woman.

...

Oh no! No one's doing Iron Man?! Oh man.


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## the_myth (Jul 29, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hmm...we've got enough steampunk technodudes, I think. And Scarlet Witch/Dr. Strange have the mystic angle sewed up pretty well.
> 
> Jemal's right about Spiderman, but what about Spider-woman? She actually flies, as I recall...or at least glides. Or Firestar...a definite flier...
> 
> Then I just need to work on a period background for one of 'em...





Spider-Woman would be excellent.

And remember, we're allowed to take broad liberties with the characters.  {which is the BEST part of this whole thing!}

[Edit:  Ooooooooo...I like your reworking of the 2 characters!]


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## the_myth (Jul 29, 2007)

*Wanda Maximoff, the Scarlet Witch*



			
				Karl Green said:
			
		

> Stat up your characters as you wish, and your backgrounds with something Victorian is all I ask




I like this picture.  It captures the mood.  Not sure of that VERY immodest bodice though.  Blimey!  What would the Queen say?!







Character sheet:

[sblock]
*The Scarlet Witch* Wanda Maximoff	PL 8 (150 pts.)

STR 10 (+0); DEX 14 (+2); CON 14 (+2); INT 12 (+1); WIS 18 (+4); CHA 16 (+3)	

COMBAT: Attack Bonus +2 (+6 w/ Magic); Defense Bonus +4; Initiative +6

SAVES: Toughness save +2; Fortitude save +5; Reflex save +5; Will save +5

SKILLS: Bluff 4 (+7/+15*), Concentration 8 (+12), Diplomacy 4 (+7/+15*), Knowledge: Arcane Lore 8 (+9), Knowledge: History 1 (+2), Medicine 2 (+6), Perform: Dance 1 (+4), Profession: Fortune Teller 1 (+5), Ride 1 (+3), Sense Motive 8 (+12), Sleight of Hand 1 (+3), Swim 1 (+1); Languages: Understand, speak, read, write in Transian, German, French, English, Italian, Rom (Gypsy), Russian, Latin, Hebrew, Greek (plus Latin, Cyrillic, Hebrew and Greek alphabets)

FEATS: Attractive 2, Beginner’s Luck, Fearsome Presence 1, Improved Initiative, Luck 1, Ritualist, Seize Initiative, Trance						

POWERS: 

*Witch’s Luck* (Luck Control-rank 2)	from Sons of Darwin line 				
•	*Witch’s Blessing* Spend hero point for another [1 rank]; Spend hero point to force re-roll for worse [1 rank]
•	Alternate powers: 
o	*The Second Sight* Super-senses: Aura Reading [5 ranks], Low Light Vision [1 rank]
o	*Future Sight* Super-senses: Danger Sense [1 rank], Precognition [4 ranks], Uncanny Dodge: Mental 1 [1 rank]
o	*Psychic Defense* Mind Shield- rank 6

*Witch’s Hexes* (Probability Control-rank 7)		from Sons of Darwin line		
•	*Witch’s Favor* basic power description
•	*The Evil Eye* Jinx, Perception Range 
•	Alternate powers:
o	*Providential Grace* Deflection (all attacks, Free Action)-rank 7
o	*Fixing the Legs* Trip (Perception range, Burst Area, Selective, Opposed by Dexterity)-rank 7
o	*Bewitching Glance* Confuse (perception range, Burst Area, Selective)-rank 7

*Witchcraft*: Magic Array Rank 6					from Mystic line
•	*Fog of Forgetfulness* Mental Transform DC 16
•	*Wind Calling* Elemental Control: Air [~ Move Object or Trip with winds]- rank 6
•	*Earth Raising* Elemental Control: Earth [~Move Object: soil/rock/mineral]-rank 6
•	*Flame Dancing* Elemental Control: Fire [~move/spread flames, damage]-rank 6
•	*Plant Growing* Elemental Control: Plant [~Snare with plant growth]-rank 6
•	*Water Flowing* Elemental Control: Water [~ Move Object for water]-rank 6
•	*Weather Summoning* Elemental Control: Weather [~Environmental Control: reduce visibility (rain)]-rank 6
•	*Shield of the Arcane* Force Field: Impervious -rank 6
•	*Touch of the Unicorn* Healing-rank 6
•	*Bolt of Bedevilment* Mystic Blast (ranged damage +6)-rank 6
•	*Scrying *(ESP, all senses)-rank 3
•	*Fairy Slumber* Sleep- rank 4
•	*See the Unseen* Super-senses: Detect Magic [2 ranks], True Sight [10 ranks]

Drawbacks
•	Power Loss (Magic) when unable to gesture or speak [-2 points]
•	Power Loss (Probability Control) when in contact with cold iron [-2 point]

Abilities 24 + Combat 16 + Saves 7 + Skills 13 (52 ranks) + Feats 9 + Powers 85 - Drawbacks 4 = 150/150 [/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (Jul 29, 2007)

[sblock=Wolverine]
WOLVERINE, AKA James Logan.
PL 8

Abilities:  
STR 14 (+2)
DEX 12 (+1)
CON 20 (+5)
INT 10 (+0)
WIS 14 (+2)
CHA 10 (+0)

Combat : Defense + 6(+6 Dodge),  Attack +4/+8Strike/+8Knives (4 damage Unarmed/8 damage Penetrating Claws/6 damage Knives)

Saves: Toughness +10 (5 Protection+5 Con) , Fort +8 (3+5 Con) , Reflex +8 (7+1Dex) , Will +8 (6+2Wis)
Initiative: +5

Skills(+total/Ranks): Acrobatics(+5/4), Intimidate(+10/10), Languages(6), Notice(+12/10), Sense Motive(+6/4), Survival(+8/6)

Feats: Attack SpecializationX4(2Strike, 2Knife), Dodge FocusX6, Environmental Adaptation: Winter/Cold, EquipmentX2, Fearless, Fearsome PresenceX10(Limit: Requires Claws Extended, -1), Improved Critical(Claws), Improved Initiative, Throwing MasteryX3

Powers: 
Strike Rank 2 (4 Pts): Martial Arts, Mighty, Accurate
Enhanced Strike Rank 4 (8 Pts): Adamantine Claws, Penetrating(4)
Super Strength rank Rank 2 (4 Pts)
Protection Rank 5 (5 Pts)
Immunity Rank 8 (8 Pts) : Aging*1*, Disease*1*, Fatigue*5*, Severed Limbs(Adamantine Skeleton)*1*
Regeneration Rank 29 (32 Pts): Bruised 3(no action), Injured 6(no action), Disabled 6(1 Round), Ressurection 8(1 Round), Ability Damage 2(1 hour), +4 Recovery Check(Auto-Succeed)
 -X- Power Featsersistant, Regrowth, Diehard
Super Movement Rank 4 (3 Pts): Wall Crawling, Slow Fall (Both Limited: Uses Claws, leaves holes -1) 
Super Senses Rank 9 (9 Pts): Accurate(Scent), Acute(Scent), Extended(Auditory, Scent), Tracking(2 ranks), Danger Sense, Direction Sense, Low-Light Vision, 

Equipment: Belt of Throwing Knives(3 pts for first, +1 per for 7 more) 8 Throwing Knives: (1 dmg, 10'range, 19-20 threat)
Languages: English, Japanese, Russian, Spanish, Chinese, Cheyenne, Lakota

Drawbacks: Amnesia(Uncommon, Minor 1 pt), Rage (Uncommon, Moderate 2 pts)*Not the feat*
*PROPOSED DRAWBACK FOR CLAWS: Requires Move Action to "Extend" or "Retract" Claws, deals 1 level of Injured Damage when Extends.  Cannot deal Nonlethal Damage with Claws. (X?)
Tradeoffs: -2Defense/+2Toughness, -2damage/+2 attack
COST: Abilities 20 + 10 Skills (40 ranks) + Feats 28 + Powers 73 + 16 Saves + 8 Combat - 3 drawbacks = 152/150
[/sblock]
First Draft, I'm 2 points over, but put in a 'proposed drawback' that may or may not be accepted and give me more points, at the GM's discretion.  
As for background, the original Wolverine background fits almost perfectly.. He can't remember much of anything of his past.. He worked at a mine for a few years with his cousin, then started travelling.  travelled across Asia and Europe, ended up getting captured by *Insert Mad Scientist/Magician here* and experimented on, transmuting his skeleton into Adamantium, which he survived only because of his extensive healing factor.  The trauma of that experience caused him to forget much of his 'travels', as his healing factor kicked in once again, 'scabbing' his memories to prevent him from going insane, and leaving him in the wilderness living like an animal, which is where the avengers discovered him and brought him back to civilization, rehabilitating him and awakening some of his (less painful) memories, restoring him to a modicum of civilized behaviour, though he's still considered VERY unsophisticated and sometimes downright rude.


----------



## hero4hire (Jul 29, 2007)

*Mister Hulk*






"*----------Character Details---------*
*Player Name:* H4H
*Character Name:* Robert Banner
*Character Alias:* Mister Hulk
*GM's Name:* Karl Green
*Age:* 30s
*Height:* 6'6""
*Weight:* 900
*Hair:* Grey
*Eyes:* Grey
*Power Level:* 8
*Power Points:* 150
*Appearance:* Bestial, Grey, Hulking
--------------------------------------

*----------Background---------*

TBA
--------------------------------------

*----------Ability Scores---------*
*Strength:* 32 (+11/0)
*Dexterity:* 10 (0)
*Constitution:* 32 (+11/0)
*Intelligence:* 18 (+4)
*Wisdom:* 14 (+2)
*Charisma:* 12 (+1)
--------------------------------------

*----------Saves---------*
*Toughness:* +11
*Fortitude:* +11
*Reflex:* +2
*Willpower:* +10
--------------------------------------

*----------Combat---------*
*Attack Bonus:* +1
*Damage Bonus:* Unarmed +11
*Grapple:* +25
*Defense Bonus:* +5 (+3 flat footed)
*Initiative:* +0
--------------------------------------

*----------Lifting Capacity---------*
*Light Load:* 354.3 tons
*Medium Load:* 708.6 tons
*Heavy Load:* 1,065.0 tons
*Max Load:* 2,129.9 tons
*Push/Drag:* 5,324.8 tons
--------------------------------------

*----------Movement Rate---------*
*Base Speed:* 30 ft/r / 60 ft/r / 120 ft/r
*Leap:* 10500 ft / 5250 ft / 2625 ft
--------------------------------------

*----------Skills---------*

*Bluff* - 0 (+1)
*Climb* - 0 (+11)
*Concentration* - 0 (+2)
*Diplomacy* - 0 (+1)
*Disguise* - 0 (+1)
*Gather Info* - 0 (+1)
*Handle Animal* - 0 (+1)
*Intimidate* - 1 (+13)
*Knowledge: Arcane Lore* - 1 (+5)
*Knowledge: Behavioral Sciences* - 6 (+10)
*Knowledge: Life Sciences* - 6 (+10)
*Knowledge: Physical Sciences* - 6 (+10)
*Medicine* - 3 (+5)
*Notice* - 3 (+5)
*Search* - 1 (+5)
*Sense Motive* - 0 (+2)
*Stealth* - 10 (+10)
*Survival* - 3 (+5)
*Swim* - 0 (+11)
--------------------------------------

*----------Feats---------*
*All-out Attack:* Reduce defense bonus to increase attack bonus
*Power Attack:* Reduce attack bonus to increase damage bonus
*Rage (1):* +4 to Str, +2 Fort & Will, -2 Defense 
*Takedown Attack (1):* Gain addtl melee attack when you drop an opponent
*Ultimate Effort (1):* Strength Checks
*Artificer:* Use Knowledge (arcane lore) & Craft to create magical inventions
*Startle:* Feint using intimidate rather than bluff
*Inventor:* Can create temporary devices
*Distract (1):* Bluff or Intimidate check to daze an opponent for 1 round
--------------------------------------

*----------Powers---------*
*Enhanced Strength* {} - Power Rank 20 - Cost 20 (1 * 20)

*Enhanced Constitution* {} - Power Rank 21 - Cost 21 (1 * 21)

*Impervious Toughness* {} - Power Rank 8 - Cost 16 (2 * 8)
_Extras:_ Reflective (Melee)

*Super-Strength* {} - Power Rank 6 - Cost 15 (2 * 6 + 3)
_Power Feats:_ Shockwave, Thunderclap, Groundstrike

*Super-Strength* {} - Power Rank 4 - Cost 4 (1 * 4)
_Flaws:_ Emotional (Anger)

*Enhanced Attack Focus (Melee)* {} - Power Rank 4 - Cost 4 (1 * 4)

*Leaping* {} - Power Rank 8 - Cost 8 (1 * 8)

*Enhanced Intimidate* {} - Power Rank 12 - Cost 4 (1/3 * 12)

*Growth* {} - Power Rank 1 - Cost 3 (3 * 1)
_Extras:_ Continuous
_Flaws:_ Permanent

*Regeneration (Bruised 1, Injured 1, Staggered 4, Disabled 1, Ability 1)* {} - Power Rank 8 - Cost 8 (1 * 8)
--------------------------------------


*----------Drawbacks---------*
*Involuntary Transform* - Points -4
_Description:_  - Freq DC 10 - Sev DC 15

*Normal Identity* - Points -4
_Description:_  - Freq DC 10 - Sev DC 15				


--------------------------------------

*----------Cost Summary---------*
*Abilities:* 14
*Combat:* 12
*Saves:* 10
*Skills:* 10
*Feats:* 9
*Powers:* 103
*Total Cost:* 158
--------------------------------------"

Note this build assumes the use of House Rule by Steve Kenson here


----------



## Redclaw (Jul 29, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Well more then I thought but…
> 
> Hero4Hire – Incredible Hulk, Man of Wonder or Hawkeye
> Jemal – Spiderman or Wolverine
> ...



With Jemal going Wolvy and Hero going Hulk, doesn't that leave us a bit melee heavy?  Should I look at someone with a few more ranged options?  I could easily go Hawkeye (works well with a Victorian take on Robin Hood) or the missing Iron Man.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 29, 2007)

Here's my submission so far. I noticed as I read that both Black Widow (the original) and the original Spider Woman have some uncanny resemblances in their backgrounds. Both were snapped up and brainwashed by sinister organizations, which trained them to be operatives. Both broke free and defected to 'the good guys.' Black Widow, of course, didn't always STAY that way, but we can overlook that. 

So I basically used Spider Woman's original background, with a Russian twist (I -think- Russia was still under the Czars in this time period? Someone yell at me if that's wrong and I'll fixit ). The spider serum becomes an artifact of voodoo magic, since 'irradiated spider venom' would be hard to come by. HYDRA may well still exist, but she was snapped up by Count Otto Verminis, who was running the Hydra Boarding Academy in Russia...and using it to build an army of brainwashed super-trained kids. Her enduring enmity to this man and this organization represent a Complication for the character.

Annnyway, without further ado...here she is. Lemme know what needs changing!

(I'm considering lowering her Strike a little and buying a low-value Headquarters to reflect the minor estate in London her folks bought before they got iced. Thoughts?)

...

(Oh, and the gliding bit. Obviously her costume can't easily have little webby wings, if it has to be concealable under Victorian outfits. I figured maybe she can use long fibers to glide, as some real spiders do. Not exactly 'webbing,' these are of finite length, can't be controlled to snare things, and aren't sticky. They're basically just really effective 'sails.')

[sblock=The Black Widow]Name: Jessica Drew Romanova
CODENAME: Black Widow - The Amazing Spider-Woman!
Concept/Archetype: Altered Human
Power Level: 8
Power Points: 150
Experience Points:
Hero Points: 1

ABILITIES
STR 20 +5 (6 PP)
DEX 26 +8 (10 PP)
CON 20 +5 (6 PP)
INT 12 +1 (2 PP)
WIS 12 +1 (2 PP)
CHA 14 +2 (4 PP)

SAVES
TOUG +8 (5 Con + 3 Feat)
FORT +7 (2 Base + 5 Con) (2 PP)
REF +8 (0 Base + 8 Dex) (0 PP)
WILL +6 (5 Base + 1 Wis) (5 PP)

COMBAT
INIT +8
BASE DEF +8 (16 PP)
DEF 18 (10 + 8 Base + XX Feat + XX Power)
FLAT-FOOTED 14
BASE ATT +7 (14 PP)

ATTACK
Ranged: Venom Blast +8 (DC 23, 80', Poison (Fort DC 23 or repeats in 1 min)
Melee: Strike +8 (DC 23, Martial Arts)

SKILLS 40 SP (10 PP)
Acrobatics +10 (2 ranks + 8 Dex)
Diplomacy +5 (3 ranks + 2 Cha) *+4 for men
Escape Arist +10 (2 ranks +8 Dex)
Intimidate +10 (8 ranks + 2 cha)
Notice +10 (9 ranks + 1 Wis)
Sense Motive +10 (9 ranks + 1 Wis)
Stealth +10 (2 ranks + 8 Dex)

LANGUAGES (5 Ranks)
Russian (native), English, Spanish, German, French, Chinese

MOVEMENT
SPEED 10mph/20mph/40mph
LEAP XX/XX/XX
MPH: 50mph gliding

FEATS (8 PP)
Acrobatic Bluff
Attractive
Defensive Roll +3
Evasion
Precise Shot
Uncanny Dodge (hearing)

POWERS 66
Super Strength +2 (4pp)
Enhanced Strength +4 (4pp)
Enhanced Dexterity +6 (6pp)
Enhanced Constitution +4 (4pp)

Super Sense: Accurate Hearing +2 (2pp)
Speed +1 (1pp)
Super Movement: Wall Crawling (full speed, not flatfooted) +2 (4pp)
Immunity: Poison +1 (1pp)

Flight (Gliding) +3 (3pp)
Venom Blast Array (electrical/toxin) (26pp)
 Blast (poison) +8 (24pp)
- AP Stun (Ranged, poison) +6 (24pp)
- AP Blast (Penetrating) +8 (24pp)
Emotion Control (Area: Cloud, Men Only, One Emotion (Love), Sense Dependent: Smell, PF Subtle) +8 (5pp)
Strike (Mighty) +3 (6pp)

DRAWBACKS
Emotion Control power has opposite effect on women (-1)

COST
Abilities [30]
Combat [30]
Saves [7]
Skills [10]
Feats [8]
Powers [66]
Drawbacks [-1]
Total [150]
Unspent [0]

NOTES
Real Name: Jessica Drew Romanova
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Height: 5' 4"
Weight: 127lbs
Hair: Lustrous black
Eyes: Blue
Nationality: Russian
Ethnicity: Russian/Irish
Tradeoffs: None

DESCRIPTION
With the stern slavic features of her father, Ivan Romanova, and the flaming red hair of her Irish mother, Jessica is a beautiful young woman. Svelte and voluptuous, fair skinned, but not freckled, she is the very image of a model young woman of breeding in the Commonwealth. None suspect that under the corsets and skirts and bonnets and bustiers are the sleek, toned muscles of a circus acrobat, barely concealed under a scandalously revealing tight black suit with spider-like patterning over the torso.

HISTORY

Jessica's life story is a convoluted one. Her childhood was happy enough, raised mostly by her mother and an army of servants in Ivan's estates in Russia. Ivan was wealthy by blood, and their lives were easy enough. Until the day that Jessica took ill with a mysterious sickness. Her parents took her from doctor to doctor, in Europe and abroad, desperately seeking out a man who could cure her. The family fortune began to dwindle alarmingly, and little Jessica clung to life by a hair when Ivan and his wife turned from science to superstition to save their daughter. In return for most of the remaining funds available to them, a voodoo priest in Haiti prepared a potion that he promised would save their girl. Her essence was weak, he said, so the potion was imbued with a powerful essence of nature...the spider, whose strength and stamina far outweighed its size.

In just a day, Jessica awoke, her fever broken. The strange, seemingly incurable malady had been cured! More immediate problems now faced the Romanovas, who had very little left in the way of money, and limited prospects for making more. It was a blessing from above, they thought, when a boarding school run by a Count friendly to Ivan's family offered to allow Jessica to attend and waive the usual fee. This would cut their costs, and free them to travel more freely in search of opportunities.

Jessica was having problems of her own while her parents handled their financial crisis. Strange dreams plagued her, and urges not altogether human. Her strength was increasing beyond her ability to limit...breaking doors and glasses was a daily event for her. One night after a particularly wrenching nightmare, she found herself stuck to the wall over the bed and couldn't free herself for several minutes. The headmaster of Hydra Academy, Count Otto Verminis, was a little TOO sympathetic. He seemed to know more than he should, be fascinated where he should be repulsed. She'd started to notice strange things about other students too...hints that some were, like her, freaks of science or magic. Deciding that something altogether sinister was afoot, Jessica decided to escape and find her parents. Unfortunately, it was too late.

The next morning, she was 'Arachnae.' She no longer remembered her parents or past. She was well and truly a student of the Academy, thanks to the mesmerism of the Count. Under the tutelage of the Academy, she learned to control her powers, and unlocked new ones as well. Her body produced chemicals alien to human biology and stored them in glands just under the skin. She could generate small but powerful electric charges that would launch this venom at incredible speeds through the air. With practice, she learned she could control the toxicity of the poison, controlling the dose so it would merely stun or knock someone out...up to potentially lethal. The electrical ejection of the venom became so fast that she could punch through steel. Yet another chemical she could release into the air around her that made her irresistable to males of the species...though it seemed to irritate and repulse females. In addition to her vastly expanded physical abilities, she found that she could 'spin' long filaments from her back that would catch winds and updrafts and let her glide. These would then retract, all in seconds flat. All the while she was learning the extent of the spider essence's potency, she was also learning more mundane skills that the Count deemed important for his students. Pugilistic styles from English boxing to the exotic fisticuffs of the Chinese. Half a dozen languages so she could fit in anywhere. Skullduggery, stealth, and spying. She was to be one of the 'heads' of Hydra Academy...a private network of spies and assassins controlled absolutely by one ambitious man.

Arachnae's first assignment was to go to Britain, to London itself. The Count had recieved information that there was a group of 'special' individuals forming in England, with the tacit approval of the Crown. Such a group, he realized, could be a threat to him. Arachnae's mission was to discover the truth of it, and if possible destroy them. By cruel irony, this led Arachnae into conflict with Captain Britannia, who was involved in investigating the recent murders of a pair of foreign nationals who had sold ancestral lands in Russia to buy a more modest residence in London and find work. Their names were Ivan and Moira Romanova.

When Arachnae discovered this, the bonds around her mind were shattered by the shock. Arachnae, no more, Jessica joined forces with Britannia in tracking down and capturing the man who had killed her parents. A so-called 'son of darwin,' who was able to change his shape to mimick anyone, making him the perfect assassin. In the end, Jessica's augmented hearing...capable of registering even tiny differences in voices...proved able to pierce his endless disguises, and the Chameleon was captured. In the process, Jessica suffered another shock. The assassin worked for none other than the Count himself!

Although Jessica has committed herself to protecting her new home in the Commonwealth of Britain, alongside her fellow 'new men,' she has privately sworn that one day she will once again face the Count Verminis and hold him to account for destroying her family, and enslaving her.[/sblock]


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Jul 29, 2007)

Santa Maria! I have not been online as of late and have just been alerted to the presence of this game. Is there any room left? I was thinking perhaps Ronin (the Clint Barton version), a samurai in England after the Americans have destroyed his way of life. Or, as no one else has claimed him, Iron Man. Probably an updated Marvel 1602 version. Maybe with possible ties to Nikola Tesla?


----------



## Blind Azathoth (Jul 29, 2007)

I'd be happy to stand aside for Herr Kinder to play if the game is, indeed, full (and it appears to be). I'm already in an M&M game that he was not chosen for... figure it'd be only fair.


----------



## James Heard (Jul 29, 2007)

I'll step aside too. After seeing the roster and the characters proposed I'm fairly certain this won't be my cup of tea no matter how cool the idea sounds. Anyways, it sounds like it will be lots of fun and everyone have a great game!


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 29, 2007)

lol...what's wrong with the roster?


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Note this build assumes the use of House Rule by Steve Kenson here




Yes that sounds fine to me


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Santa Maria! I have not been online as of late and have just been alerted to the presence of this game. Is there any room left? I was thinking perhaps Ronin (the Clint Barton version), a samurai in England after the Americans have destroyed his way of life. Or, as no one else has claimed him, Iron Man. Probably an updated Marvel 1602 version. Maybe with possible ties to Nikola Tesla?






			
				Blind Azathoth said:
			
		

> I'd be happy to stand aside for Herr Kinder to play if the game is, indeed, full (and it appears to be). I'm already in an M&M game that he was not chosen for... figure it'd be only fair.




Well if James Heard is not going to play, then yes for sure. Otherwise how about a say tenative and I see how the team shakes out... and I will try to squeeze everyone in


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hmm...
> 
> Firestar was in there for awhile, it seems...she's kind of fun.
> 
> ...







			
				the_myth said:
			
		

> so many possibilities!
> 
> Clockwork mechanical man.  Golem.  Living statue.  Frankenstein's monster rip-off!





There could be a TON of what to do up the Vision, I like a lot of these


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> With Jemal going Wolvy and Hero going Hulk, doesn't that leave us a bit melee heavy?  Should I look at someone with a few more ranged options?  I could easily go Hawkeye (works well with a Victorian take on Robin Hood) or the missing Iron Man.




It is totally up to you, but it has always seem to me that the Avengers are pretty melee heavy but I do indeed like Hawkeye and Iron Man alot also 

If you want help with the Black Knight's sword and horse I can help you there also. Note the Horse I would treat as a Sidekick. Each rank of the Feat Sidekick you take, gives the horse 5 power points. PL is just less then yours. I would not give it more then 2 or 3 ranks of flight though. 

As for the Sword I have a few ideas, depending on if you are still interested.

EDIT: ops 5pts a rank for sidekick... read that wrong


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> [sblock=Wolverine]
> WOLVERINE, AKA James Logan.
> 
> First Draft, I'm 2 points over, but put in a 'proposed drawback' that may or may not be accepted and give me more points, at the GM's discretion.
> .




Hmm let me look over the rules first, and I will let you know, but it is not to unreasonable

Otherwise looks good


----------



## James Heard (Jul 29, 2007)

> ol...what's wrong with the roster?




I dunno. For one when I was statting up Strange at first I was going for reaaaal low key, and really subtle and slow on the magic even, since he was gearing to be more like Sherlock Strange rather than Four Color. The other characters though, at least some of them, seem fairly faithful adaptations of the modern equivalents. That would especially be a notable issue with Strange being the World's Sorcerer Supreme and clearly outclassed by the Scarlet Witch.

Strange has always been a kind of an outsider Avenger anyways, compared to the folks wearing tight pants. I suppose I was sort of thinking in my head when I first saw this proposed that the ah, tight pants would come off, so to speak. I'm not getting that vibe though, and with other people wanting to be here more than me any longer...

Anyways, everyone have a great time!


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 29, 2007)

James Heard said:
			
		

> I dunno. For one when I was statting up Strange at first I was going for reaaaal low key, and really subtle and slow on the magic even, since he was gearing to be more like Sherlock Strange rather than Four Color. The other characters though, at least some of them, seem fairly faithful adaptations of the modern equivalents. That would especially be a notable issue with Strange being the World's Sorcerer Supreme and clearly outclassed by the Scarlet Witch.
> 
> Strange has always been a kind of an outsider Avenger anyways, compared to the folks wearing tight pants. I suppose I was sort of thinking in my head when I first saw this proposed that the ah, tight pants would come off, so to speak. I'm not getting that vibe though, and with other people wanting to be here more than me any longer...
> 
> Anyways, everyone have a great time!




Well I totally understand, and sorry it does not 100% fit that... I kind of am gearing more towards the 4-color in the Victorian age and not as subtle. 

I still think you can make a powerful Dr. Strange who would be different from the Witch and have his own 'area' but I can see where you are coming from also...


----------



## Jemal (Jul 29, 2007)

Yeah, I've kinda got it easy with Wolvie..
BTW, I just realized there's another Drawback that the Wolverine should have, as has been used against him numerous times - He's got a METAL skeleton, and is thus affected by magnetics.  I'm thinking Uncommon frequency(It's the 19th century after all), Major intensity (Double save dc modifier). -3 Drawback


----------



## the_myth (Jul 29, 2007)

James Heard said:
			
		

> I dunno. For one when I was statting up Strange at first I was going for reaaaal low key, and really subtle and slow on the magic even, since he was gearing to be more like Sherlock Strange rather than Four Color. The other characters though, at least some of them, seem fairly faithful adaptations of the modern equivalents. That would especially be a notable issue with Strange being the World's Sorcerer Supreme and clearly outclassed by the Scarlet Witch.
> 
> Strange has always been a kind of an outsider Avenger anyways, compared to the folks wearing tight pants. I suppose I was sort of thinking in my head when I first saw this proposed that the ah, tight pants would come off, so to speak. I'm not getting that vibe though, and with other people wanting to be here more than me any longer...
> 
> Anyways, everyone have a great time!





Actually, that's kinda why I was wondering about the point breakdown earlier.  The difference between a 120 point character and a 150 point character is immense!

Who knew 30 points could matter so much?!?!  [Other than those damn game designers!  Drat them!!  hehe    ]

And who's to say Sherlock Strange is Sorcerer Supreme yet?  Maybe he's working his way up!  Take Magic 10 and a whole bunch of spells and devices and you'd be up to 150 points in no time!  Heck, a well-crafted Eye of Agamotto could be worth 30-45 points all on its own!


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Jul 30, 2007)

Alright, I have decided to play Ronin instead of Iron Man (I have...issues with Iron Man right now, as most who have been reading comics as of late do). He'll be an actual ronin from Japan, in England now that his way of life has been outlawed. I'll work on stating him up this week.


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## Jemal (Jul 30, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> I have...issues with Iron Man right now, as most who have been reading comics as of late do.




Yeah.. Hell, *I* sided with Captain AMERICA during the cvil war, and I've never exactly been his biggest fan..  
I almost gave up on Spidey during the war until he realized what a doofus he'd been and said 'bye bye' to IronMan. 
Then after the war, I kinda just stopped reading comics.


----------



## Blind Azathoth (Jul 30, 2007)

Well, with James dropping out, I suppose I shall be staying. Though with Kinder playing the nunchaku-and-shuriken martial artist type, I think it would be a bit redundant for me to play Moon Knight, so I've opted to go for Thor instead. I'll try to have him written up tomorrow.


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## Necro_Kinder (Jul 30, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Then after the war, I kinda just stopped reading comics.




Stopped reading comics!? But, my good sir, you are missing World War Hulk!! Which you if you dislike Iron Man, you should read.


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## Redclaw (Jul 30, 2007)

With one clawed Avenger, and one using a sword already, I really feel that the Knight would be redundant.  The group even has his scientific knowledge with Dr. Banner.
So, I have decided to go for a defensive specialist, and I am working on a Victorian era Justice.
Karl, would you be okay with a telekinetic array (probably telekinesis, blast, internal attack and deflect)?


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Blind Azathoth said:
			
		

> Well, with James dropping out, I suppose I shall be staying. Though with Kinder playing the nunchaku-and-shuriken martial artist type, I think it would be a bit redundant for me to play Moon Knight, so I've opted to go for Thor instead. I'll try to have him written up tomorrow.




Well I think Moon Knight is super cool, and different from Ronin BUT then Thor is pretty great also


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Karl, would you be okay with a telekinetic array (probably telekinesis, blast, internal attack and deflect)?




Sure, I am allowing stuff from Ultimate Power, so that would work


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Yeah, I've kinda got it easy with Wolvie..
> BTW, I just realized there's another Drawback that the Wolverine should have, as has been used against him numerous times - He's got a METAL skeleton, and is thus affected by magnetics.  I'm thinking Uncommon frequency(It's the 19th century after all), Major intensity (Double save dc modifier). -3 Drawback




Hm I am not 100% sold on that one, but the claws (2pt) Drawback is ok


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Yeah.. Hell, *I* sided with Captain AMERICA during the cvil war, and I've never exactly been his biggest fan..
> I almost gave up on Spidey during the war until he realized what a doofus he'd been and said 'bye bye' to IronMan.
> Then after the war, I kinda just stopped reading comics.




The ONLY mainstream Marvel that I read any more is Moon Knight. Civil War pretty much killed my intrest in most Marvel. I did strat picking up the New Warriors and it is ok, but we wil see. I do read most of the Ultimate line though...


----------



## Redclaw (Jul 30, 2007)

Here's my first run at it.  Any thoughts/suggestions?
Justice





Vincent Astor was born to poor parents in an outlying area of London.  He was a relatively average kid, but a bit smarter than most.  Unfortunately, that intelligence tended to anger his father, a foreman at a textiles plant, who was physically abusive toward Vincent.  Vincent was also forced to work at the plant from a very young age, climbing into and fixing the machines when they broke down.  
When Vince was 12, he learned about his power when a future self visited him and told him not to join the East India Company as he had planned to do.  Over the next few years his powers manifested and he began to learn to control them, and he fought minor criminals using the identity the Boy Marvel.  His father was angered by the emerging powers, which he viewed as 'witchbred' according to church doctrine, and his attacks on young Vince increased, finally leading to a confrontation that ended with Vince killing his father in self-defense.
Unfortunately, the courts didn't fully exonerate Vince, but they mitigated the usual sentence and instead of being sent to Australia, he spent 5 years in the secret prison for powerful criminals hidden within the Tower of London.  There he was a model prisoner, even helping the guards train to increase their effectiveness against men of power.  He also earned the friendship of the Avengers.  When he was released from prison (early due to good behavior) he adopted the new identity of Justice, and was invited to join the Avengers.


Complications-- Vince suffers from a guilt complex over the death of his father, causing him to hesitate to use his powers to a lethal degree.
--Vince Astor is a known witchbreed and convicted murderer.  The facts of his case are less widely known, and anyone who recognizes him (after five years in prison) is likely to react with fear and distrust.  
--Vince has a strong code of honor, the same one that prevented him from using his powers to escape punishment for his father's murder.  He truly believes in the laws of England, and does not break them lightly.
--Justice's true identity is not known to the population at large, in part because of the problems it would cause the Avengers to have a convicted murderer on their roster.


[sblock=stats]
Abilities
Strength--10 (+0)  0pp
Dexterity--14 (+2)  4pp
Constitution--14 (+2)  4pp
Intelligence--16 (+3)  6pp
Wisdom--12 (+1)  2pp
Charisma--14 (+2)  4pp

Total power points=20

Saving Throws
Toughness--+2, up to +10 with force field (+2 ability)    0pp
Fortitude--+5 (+3 Base +2 ability)     3pp
Reflex--+6 (+4 Base, +2 ability)    4pp
Willpower--+8 (+7 Base, +1 ability)     7pp

Total Power points=14

Combat
Defense--14 (+4 Bonus)  Flatfooted--12      8pp
Initiative--+6 (+2 ability, +4 feat)
Hero Points--3 (1 base, +2 luck)

Attack Bonus +4    8pp
Ranged +8 (+4 Attack bonus, +4 Attack Focus)
Melee +4 (+4 Attack Bonus)

Total Power Points=16

Skills
Acrobatics--+6 (+2 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp
Concentration--+9 (+1 ability, 8 ranks)  2pp
Diplomacy--+6 (+2 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp
Disable Device--+7 (+3 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp
Gather Information--+6 (+2 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp
Intimidate--+10 (+2 ability, 8 ranks)  2pp
Investigate--+11 (+3 ability, 8 ranks)  2pp
Knowledge (Civics)--+7 (+3 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp
Knowledge (Current Events?)--+11 (+3 ability, 8 ranks)  2pp  (I'm looking to show his knowledge of other Men of Power...)
Notice--+5 (+1 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp
Sense Motive--+5 (+1 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp
Swim--+4 (+0 ability, 4 ranks)  1pp

Total Power Points=16

Feats
Attack Focus (ranged)--4 ranks  +4 on ranged attacks    4pp
Improved Aim +10 melee, +4 ranged when aiming   1pp
Improved Disarm--1 rank  +2 bonus on attack roles to disarm opponents   1pp
Improved Initiative  +4 bonus on initiative rolls   1pp
Improved Pin   Opponents are at -4 to escape grapple or pin  1pp
Improved Trip   +4 bonus on trip attacks, not subject to return trip attempts   1pp
Luck--2 ranks  +2 hero points per adventure session
Move-By Action   Can perform a standard action mid-move  1pp
Power Attack   Can trade attack bonus to increase damage (max 5)  1pp
Precise Shot   reduce penalty for firing into melee by 4   1pp
Teamwork--1 rank  +1 to aid action

Total Power Points=15

Powers
Telekinetic Array 30, Dynamic Power x5, Alternate Power x4       69 power points
  Son of Darwin Power Structure  Provides 60 power points to divide amongst abilities

Dynamic Telekinesis (Max 8)  Damaging (+1), Precise   3pp/rank +1 from array
  Son of Darwin general ability   Move objects at current power rank distance, effective strength is current power rank x5, object thrown as weapons us power rank as strength for damage, can be used to grapple, trip or disarm using current power rank

Dynamic Telekinetic Blast (Max 6) Ricochet, Accurate     2pp/rank +2    
  Son of Darwin Force Attack          Ranged Attack +10, 1-6 damage, can ricochet of a single surface, having no impact on that surface

Dynamic Force Field (Max 8)  Impervious, Affects Others, Ranged, Selective, Progression 3    4pp/rank +4
  Son of Darwin Defense      provides power rank bonus on toughness saves, ignores attack with damage less than current power rank, can be used on up to 10 other people at power rank range

Dynamic Flight Affects Others, Ranged, Progression 3    4pp/rank +3
  Son of Darwin Telekinetic Movement    Provides telekinetic flight up to power rank speed on the time and movement chart, and can be applied to up to 10 other people at power rank range   Base power maxes out at power rank 4 (can be overcome with exertion)

Dynamic Deflect (Max 10)  All ranged, Action, Ranged  4pp/rank
  Son of Darwin Telekinetic Defense    Block ranged attacks as a move action using power rank as attack bonus, can block any attacks within power range, each deflect attempt after the first is at a -2 modifier 

Total Power Points=69


Power Points=20 ability +14 saves +16 combat +16 skills +15 feats +69 powers=150
Trade-offs= +2 attack/-2 damage, +2 toughness, -2 defense
[/sblock]


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Here's my first run at it.  Any thoughts/suggestions?
> Justice
> Unfortunately, the courts didn't fully exonerate Vince, and he spent 5 years in the secret prison for powerful criminals hidden within the Tower of London (let me know if you want me to change this).




No, that's ok... but most non-royal 'Men of Renowned' (super beings) Criminals are shipped off to Australia, maybe you were an exception…  



			
				Redclaw said:
			
		

> Powers
> Telekinetic Array 30, Dynamic Power x5, Alternate Power x4       69 power points
> Mutant Power Structure




Remember your 'Origin' would be *Son of Darwin* in the Victorian age... AND as "Mutant" hatred is a stable of Marvel, the Church calls you 'Witchbreed' (which is fitting for Wanda )


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Kewl so only the Mighty Thor and Ronin are needed for the Team to be complete.

POSTING GUIDELINES
When you post over in the Game thread (when I start it) please PLEASE put your characters NAME, number of Hero Points and any Condition in the *Title* area as this will help me get everyone’s name, etc down and track stuff. 

Generally for games that I run, I like people to roll there own dice. I would prefer people use Invisible Castle as it is my favorite. NOW, for secret rolls, and to speed things up I will make some of your rolls, but you get to decide about spending Hero Points for re-rolls etc. 

When ever you want to do something that will require a roll, please describe your action in your main post (“Iron Lord blast Monkey Monster with a powerful blast of Electrical discharges from his power gauntlets!’) and then at the bottom, record your rolls, etc in an OCC, maybe in gray color (OCC – Iron Man ranged attack roll (1d20+8=23), if that hits, +8 damage)  


NOW I am going to start the game a bit... differently... please just roll with it  I promise this is not how I always will do things, but to start it off


----------



## Elric (Jul 30, 2007)

Karl- I think we might have a problem doing our own rolls when our actions are contingent on other actions before us in a round.  It seems to me that if you're trying to resolve a whole round of combat at a time, we'll need contingent actions.  

For example, "if the minions on the roof are still up, I Area Blast them- otherwise I regular Blast a guy on the ground unless a companion is hurt, in which case I heal them."  Doing the rolling for that as a player would be a pain in the neck (and well, if you get a bad roll for healing all of a sudden you may decide you're only healing someone if he's very injured )

Conditional actions also makes it a problem to describe what you're doing in detail in some cases when you don't know what your action will be!

Also, for HP usage when we are rerolling saves, we'll probably want a policy where we can tell you to automatically reroll some saves so that you can resolve opponent's actions without having to later re-edit them to account for rerolls.

Lastly, I'm going to be on vacation for a little over two weeks starting tomorrow, so I might not be able to post much while I'm away (but I'll try to get some quick posts in).  Anyone want to volunteer to decide on combat actions for me if Captain Britania's lack of actions is holding the group up?


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl- I think we might have a problem doing our own rolls when our actions are contingent on other actions before us in a round.  It seems to me that if you're trying to resolve a whole round of combat at a time, we'll need contingent actions.
> 
> For example, "if the minions on the roof are still up, I Area Blast them- otherwise I regular Blast a guy on the ground unless a companion is hurt, in which case I heal them."  Doing the rolling for that as a player would be a pain in the neck (and well, if you get a bad roll for healing all of a sudden you may decide you're only healing someone if he's very injured )
> 
> ...




Yes all good stuff on Conditional Actions BUT I generally say, post a few different options, especially if you are at the end of the round. If there are different types of rolls that you think you might use, then post them also. IF you don't use them it is not a huge deal in my mind and it does speed things up...

NOW for Hero Point Re-Rolls I do like the idea of people say BUT I can go back and edit stuff if that is ok also. I just find it can take a LONG time to do combat, unless you have a lot of stuff up front...


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Spider-Woman
> ATTACK
> Ranged: Venom Blast +8 (DC 23, CRIT 20 x2, 80', Poison (Fort DC 23 or repeats in 1 min)
> Melee: Strike +8 (DC 23, CRIT 20 x2, Martial Arts)




Minor note here, but Critial Hits in M&M give you +5 damage mod's


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> *The Scarlet Witch*






			
				Redclaw said:
			
		

> Justice





NOTE both of you with Arrays, when the game start I am going to want to know a 'basic' power-set default that you might have in a non-combat BUT hightened level of danger then just having tea as it were.


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2007)

One more character version- added 1 pp in regen and 2 pp in Super-senses for vision (I figure he might as well have a few powers in common with Black Panther).  Took off Track because it would unnecessarily compete with Wolverine.  Upped Wis and Cha.

Question: Can we use the Masterful Tactics option from the Mastermind's Manual so that I can use Knowledge: Tactics for Master Plan rolls?  

CAPTAIN BRITANIA
[sblock]
PL: 8  (150 pp)

ABILITIES:   STR: 22 (+6)  DEX: 22 (+6)   CON: 22 (+6)   INT: 12 (+1)   WIS: 18 (+4)   CHA: 20 (+5)

SKILLS:  Acrobatics 8 (+14), Bluff 5 (+10), Climb 4 (+10), Concentration  (+4), Diplomacy 9 (+14), Disguise  (+5), Drive  (+6), Escape Artist  (+6), Gather Info  (+5), Handle Animal 2 (+7), Intimidate 7 (+12), History 4 (+5), Tactics 9 (+10), Medicine 1 (+5), Notice 8 (+12), Ride 1 (+7), Search  (+1), Sense Motive 8 (+12), Stealth 4 (+10), Survival 1 (+5), Swim 4 (+10) 

FEATS: Acrobatic Bluff, Animal Empathy, Attack Focus (6), Benefit (1), Defensive Attack, Diehard, Elusive Target, Endurance (1), Equipment (1), Evasion (2), Fearless, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative (1), Inspire (5), Interpose, Leadership, Luck (2), Master Plan, Power Attack, Takedown Attack (2), Teamwork (2), Ultimate Effort (1), Uncanny Dodge 

POWERS:  Speed [1], Leaping [1], Super-Strength [1], Immunity (Diseases) [1], Regeneration (Bruised, 1/full round of rest) [1]
Super-Senses (Extended Vision, Low-Light Vision) [1],
Device (Easy to Lose, PF: Indestructible, Restricted- functions as large shield for anyone else) [2]
Shield: Enhanced Dodge Focus 3, Strike 2 (PF: Mighty), Enhanced Feats (Improved Critical, Improved Defense, Improved Block, Weapon Bind)

COMBAT:  Attack +2 (+8 melee)  [Unarmed +6 (Bruise), Shield +8 attack +8 dmg (19-20 Crit)]   Defense 18 (13 flat-footed)   Init  +10

SAVES:  Toughness +8 (+8 flat-footed)  Fortitude +8  Reflex +8  Will +8

Abilities 56  +  Skills 20 (80 ranks)  +  Feats 36  +  Powers 16  +  Combat 14  +  Saves 8  –  Drawbacks 0 = 150 / 150[/sblock]


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> One more character version- added 1 pp in regen and 2 pp in Super-senses for vision (I figure he might as well have a few powers in common with Black Panther).  Took off Track because it would unnecessarily compete with Wolverine.  Upped Wis and Cha.
> 
> Question: Can we use the Masterful Tactics option from the Mastermind's Manual so that I can use Knowledge: Tactics for Master Plan rolls?




Hmm I will have to re-read that tonight... maybe


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## Redclaw (Jul 30, 2007)

Justice's Default Power Set is:

Telekinesis 8  Damaging, Precise (25)

Force Field 7  Affects Others, Impervious, Ranged, Progression 3, Selective  (32)

Total PP =57/60


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## Karl Green (Jul 30, 2007)

Note, also please post your final character version over in the Rogue's Gallery

Later I will post some badguys there but under spoiler tags so please don't look at them until I say it is cool


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## Elric (Jul 30, 2007)

Masterful Tactics is near the end of the skills chapter in the MM.

Oh, Improved Disarm takes me over my PL attack bonus limits by 2 points when disarming- hope that's fine.  Also, Improved Block takes me over by PL attack bonus limit by 2 points when blocking- hope that's also fine.

Jemal- I think Fearless Presence is normally capped at the PL of the campaign- 8 in this case.


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## Jemal (Jul 30, 2007)

> Oh, Improved Disarm takes me over my PL attack bonus limits by 2 points when disarming- hope that's fine.  Also, Improved Block takes me over by PL attack bonus limit by 2 points when blocking- hope that's also fine.




Yes, that brings up a question my friends and I have been having for a while(Like, since I bought the book a month ago).. Do situational modifiers go over the PL limit? (IE Accurate attack, Power Attack, Improved Disarm, Improved Block, Charging, ETC, etc, etc..)



> Jemal- I think Fearless Presence is normally capped at the PL of the campaign- 8 in this case.




Yeah, I just realized it's a Save DC, which are capped by PL.  will adjust.



> When ever you want to do something that will require a roll, please describe your action in your main post (“Iron Lord blast Monkey Monster with a powerful blast of Electrical discharges from his power gauntlets!’) and then at the bottom, record your rolls, etc in an OCC, maybe in gray color (OCC – Iron Man ranged attack roll (1d20+8=23), if that hits, +8 damage)



I Usually use Sblocks
[sblock=ooc] Dude.. Sblock![/sblock] or [sblock=actions]I hit defense 238 for 57 damage[/sblock]
For Out Of Character stuff.  Is that acceptable?

Also, any particular reason why the claws thing (Require Move Action to "Extend" or "Retract", deals 1 level of Injured Damage when Extends.  Cannot deal Nonlethal Damage with Claws) is 2 pts?  Not arguing(2 pts is fine by me), just wondering why you figured it.
Also, so should I have Wolverine's skeleton be a 'magical' form of metal that's not affected as normal metal, then, just for simplicity's sake?


----------



## Jemal (Jul 30, 2007)

OH, also, if we're using Rage feat as overcoming PL (as in that option posted earlier this thread), then I think I'll drop the rage drawback and just take the rage feat with drawback: Uncontrolable.. I like that for wolverine.  He's working to stop it, but sometimes he just goes into a berserk killing frenzy... NOw, ordinarily flaws only function on POWERS, but the rage feat is basically a 1pt/rank power that gives you +2 str/+1 fort per rank, and -2 defense.  for 1 Point, I could have 2 ranks in it with the uncontrolled flaw meaning you (The GM) decide when I snap.
Would that be OK?


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Yes, that brings up a question my friends and I have been having for a while(Like, since I bought the book a month ago).. Do situational modifiers go over the PL limit? (IE Accurate attack, Power Attack, Improved Disarm, Improved Block, Charging, ETC, etc, etc..)




Most of these don't break PL limit- i.e. Power Attack lowers attack to add to Damage, just like Tradeoff. Charging almost the same thing (+2 attack for -2 defense, but then it is an action so.... yes it can go over PL). The one odd one is All-Out Attack as it lowers your Defense to improve your Attack bonus which is not normally a Trade-Off but Kenson has said that they all are 'trade-offs'

NOW  as for Improved Disarm, Block, Grapple, Trip, etc... where you get a bonus with no penalty, I have read the Feats over a few times and none make mention about PL limits YET all the others (like Sneak Attack) mentions it in the feat description. I have not read anything that says that PL limits apply to them so I am going to assume that they don't until I read something (probably from Kenson )



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> I Usually use Sblocks
> 
> For Out Of Character stuff.  Is that acceptable?




Yes this is acceptable (sblocks).  



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> Also, any particular reason why the claws thing (Require Move Action to "Extend" or "Retract", deals 1 level of Injured Damage when Extends.  Cannot deal Nonlethal Damage with Claws) is 2 pts?  Not arguing(2 pts is fine by me), just wondering why you figured it.
> Also, so should I have Wolverine's skeleton be a 'magical' form of metal that's not affected as normal metal, then, just for simplicity's sake?




There is no Drawback that is comprable to Requires a Move Action and Causes 1 level of Injure (and 1 level of Injure to Wolverine is pretty much a non-issue; Just like Daredevil being Blind is not worth a full Drawback for him). The closes was Normal Identity, taking a Free Action to get "all" of your powers is -3. I Figured 1 power, a move action should be -1 maybe -2, with the Takes damage worth about 1/2 also to push it to -2. 

Now f you want to be Vulnerable to Magnetic Control, I suppose you could take it as a Weakness, but I don't like people loading up on Drawbacks (and you have 2 or 3 anyway). Generally if you run into someone with Magmetic Control (and his a big one at that) I would generally prefer to just give a Hero Point for his powers to affect you... its up to you though, if you take it as a Drawback... you will run in to it more  



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> OH, also, if we're using Rage feat as overcoming PL (as in that option posted earlier this thread), then I think I'll drop the rage drawback and just take the rage feat with drawback: Uncontrolable.. I like that for wolverine.  He's working to stop it, but sometimes he just goes into a berserk killing frenzy... NOw, ordinarily flaws only function on POWERS, but the rage feat is basically a 1pt/rank power that gives you +2 str/+1 fort per rank, and -2 defense.  for 1 Point, I could have 2 ranks in it with the uncontrolled flaw meaning you (The GM) decide when I snap.
> Would that be OK?




Hmm... I would like a condition where you would 'snap' spelled out for this... "In combat" or "At the sight of blood" or would it be "When friends (or females) are hurt" 
Flaws can be placed on Feats also (as seen in Freedom City, but I have to look at my book when I get home tonight).


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 31, 2007)

Any problems, questions, concerns with the Black Widow? If not, I'll put her up on Rogue's Gallery.


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Any problems, questions, concerns with the Black Widow? If not, I'll put her up on Rogue's Gallery.




The only one I noticed from my first quick over was the Critical Hits note. I am going to read over them all tonight again to check the math and stuff... otherwise she looks good


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 31, 2007)

Oof, yeah. Fixed that. Thanks!


----------



## Jemal (Jul 31, 2007)

RE: Magnetics - I wasn't trying to eek out points (well, not JUST that  ), more trying to build Wolverine as close as possible to what he's supposed to be (I dont wanna mess with the basics too much, I love the character as is).  The hero point thing works just fine.

As for a condition for me Snapping.. I don't know, in the comics he tends to just 'go off' sometimes, usually when something sparks a memory, or he sees somebody he really dislikes (Sabretooth), or just when his team's getting beaten badly.


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## Elric (Jul 31, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> RE: Magnetics - I wasn't trying to eek out points (well, not JUST that  ), more trying to build Wolverine as close as possible to what he's supposed to be (I dont wanna mess with the basics too much, I love the character as is).  The hero point thing works just fine.




For what it's worth, BARON/MDSnowman/Taliesin (edit: three of the most prolific character converters on Atomic Think Tank) all gave their builds of Wolverine a Vulnerability to Magnetic Powers drawback.  Of course, having a Magnetic Controlling villain show up may mean dealing with the 1889 version of Magneto- we don't want that


----------



## Redclaw (Jul 31, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Most of these don't break PL limit- i.e. Power Attack lowers attack to add to Damage, just like Tradeoff. Charging almost the same thing (+2 attack for -2 defense, but then it is an action so.... yes it can go over PL). The one odd one is All-Out Attack as it lowers your Defense to improve your Attack bonus which is not normally a Trade-Off but Kenson has said that they all are 'trade-offs'
> 
> NOW  as for Improved Disarm, Block, Grapple, Trip, etc... where you get a bonus with no penalty, I have read the Feats over a few times and none make mention about PL limits YET all the others (like Sneak Attack) mentions it in the feat description. I have not read anything that says that PL limits apply to them so I am going to assume that they don't until I read something (probably from Kenson )




Based on this, I switched out Teamwork for Improved Disarm.  It seems to fit Justice's approach to combat.


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## Jemal (Jul 31, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> For what it's worth, BARON/MDSnowman/Taliesin (edit: three of the most prolific character converters on Atomic Think Tank) all gave their builds of Wolverine a Vulnerability to Magnetic Powers drawback.  Of course, having a Magnetic Controlling villain show up may mean dealing with the 1889 version of Magneto- we don't want that




well, on the PLUS side, there's (generally speaking) less metal for him to affect...


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## Elric (Jul 31, 2007)

I still need someone to decide on combat actions for Captain Britania while I'm on vacation if I'm not around to post.  Jemal/Shayuri- either of you want to do it?


----------



## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Oof, yeah. Fixed that. Thanks!




I noticed one more, with your Posion; it is a Fort save, so the DC is 10 + power rank (so it would be an 18)


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## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> well, on the PLUS side, there's (generally speaking) less metal for him to affect...




well it could be non-ferrous also


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## Shayuri (Jul 31, 2007)

Elric, I'd be willing to if Jemal doesn't want to. 

Karl...double oops! Will fix. Thanks, again.


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## Elric (Jul 31, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Elric, I'd be willing to if Jemal doesn't want to.




Sold!  Thanks!  Unless Jemal wants to, then you can work that out however you want 
I'm leaving on vacation today, so if something starts and I'm not around, just post for me!


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## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Yes, depending on when Thor and Ronin are ready I am just about ready myself to start... 

I am going to shot for tomorrow, if I can get all the characters by then


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## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Ops I did just notice that not everyone has listed any Complications. It is not required BUT if you want to use them to get Hero Points 

Generally I have always played it that if you want your Complication to set you back, then you come up with a reason, etc and then I will give the result as it were. In combat, they will generally make you lose your actions for a turn, etc. Out of combat it is a bit more, but if there is a REAL setback I am cool with giving out a Hero Point.

Again up to you all


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## Jemal (Jul 31, 2007)

If you want it, Shay, be my guest.  Time's been a bit awkward for me to find lately.  Bits + Pieces here & There.

Also, i did a few updates to wolvie, including picking a couple complications like you wanted.
AND, I found something kinda strange...
Extra Effort's only drawbacks are 
A) Usable 1/round.
B) Causes Fatigue.
Um... immune to Fatigue = Auto Extra Effort every round?!?  Seems wrong, but the fatigue immunity makes sense for the character... Wolverine just doesn't get tired (He can battle for quite litterally hours... fought Omega Red for nearly a full day straight once).

Maybe instead limit it to 1/minute or 1/encounter?  OR is the paying 5 PP a fair trade-off? (you can get an extra hero point for 1 PP)


----------



## Jemal (Jul 31, 2007)

Also, sorry to be a pest, but normally Hero Points are "Per Session"... How does that translate to Online?  (RL Sessions may be anywhere from a single scene to an entire Arc...)


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## Victim (Jul 31, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> If you want it, Shay, be my guest.  Time's been a bit awkward for me to find lately.  Bits + Pieces here & There.
> 
> Also, i did a few updates to wolvie, including picking a couple complications like you wanted.
> AND, I found something kinda strange...
> ...




Fatigue Immunity doesn't apply to Extra Effort.


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## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Also, sorry to be a pest, but normally Hero Points are "Per Session"... How does that translate to Online?  (RL Sessions may be anywhere from a single scene to an entire Arc...)




Its going to be "Per Issue" for me... Issue #1 (not telling the title yet), will be the first story, etc. Hench, awarding Hero Point will be important. I am going to try and award them often for when your character says and does cool things.

I am of the mind that Complications should be Character Driving... ie if you want (need) a Hero Point and will accept the set-back, you decide when your character is going to have that affect (so if Mr. Brave has the complication of saving innocents, and in combat see's inncoents in danger, he can go to help them, gaining a Hero Point, or remain in the fight with Doc Bad... there is no penalty as it were)


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## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Victim said:
			
		

> Fatigue Immunity doesn't apply to Extra Effort.




Yep, I don't have my book with me right now but I know it's in there somewhere (or did I read it in the FAQ? can't remember)


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## Jemal (Jul 31, 2007)

re: Hero points - OK
RE: Fatigue Immunity - So what DOES it make me immune to, just the Fatigue POWER, or everything but Extra Effort?

(Posted to RG, btw, with a couple changes and a new pic)


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## Karl Green (Jul 31, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> re: Hero points - OK
> RE: Fatigue Immunity - So what DOES it make me immune to, just the Fatigue POWER, or everything but Extra Effort?
> 
> (Posted to RG, btw, with a couple changes and a new pic)




Yes it makes you immune to the Fatigue power AND that you don't get tired from staying awake, running all day, etc. I can (and will) impose Fatigue onto people for long term, fatiguing things


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## Blind Azathoth (Aug 1, 2007)

Sorry this took me so long. This is only my second M&M character, and the backstory turned out rather longer than I predicted... feel free to make any suggestions you think will improve the character, or point out any errors I might have made.

[sblock=Statistics]*Doctor Donald Blake, the Mighty Thor*

*Abilities:* Str 24 (12), Dex 14, Con 26 (10), Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 18
*Saves:* Tough +8 (impervious when holding Mjolnir), Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +9
*Skills:* Diplomacy 8+4, Intimidate 12+4, Knowledge (history) 8+3
*Feats:* All-out Attack, Fearless, Power Attack, Quick Change, Startle, Takedown Attack
*Combat:* Attack +8, Damage +8 (strike), Damage +8 (blast), Defense +8, Init +2
*Powers:*
Device "Mjolnir" 8 (easy to lose; power feats: indestructible, restricted x2) [24+3 pp]
- Flight 4 [8 pp]
- Impervious Toughness 8 [8 pp]
- Strike 1 (power feat: mighty) [2 pp]
- Weather Control 8 (cold; power feats: alternate power x6) [16+5 pp]
--- Air Control 8
--- Blast 8 (lightning bolt)
--- Dazzle 6 (auditory and visual)
--- Weather Control 8 (reduced visibility (rain))
--- Weather Control 8 (hampered movement (wet surface))
Enhanced Constitution 16 [16 pp]
Enhanced Strength 12 [12 pp]
Immunity 1 (aging) [1 pp]
Super-Strength 4 (heavy load: 5.6 tons, +4 on Str checks) [8 pp]

Abilities 22 + Saves 20 + Skills 7 + Feats 6 + Combat 32 + Powers 63 = 150/150[/sblock]

[sblock=History]Doctor Donald Blake, noted medieval historian and archaeologist at the King's College London, was born in Norwich in 1849—and, thirty-seven years later, in 1886, he was reborn as the mighty Thor.

It all began in the early months of 1886, when reports trickled into London of a grand discovery in Iceland. In a largely uninhabited region of the country, a pair of travelers stumbled upon a mostly hidden, half-collapsed cavern that turned out to be a burial mound. Initial excavations by local experts suggested that the artifacts were likely a thousand years old, possibly more, and the team quickly stumbled upon a second grave bearing similar items—and then a third—and even more...

Experts in the field from around Europe were quite naturally drawn to this so-called "Nordic Valley of the Kings" (called such despite the fact that none of the burial sites seemed to be those of chieftains or especially high-ranking individuals), and Doctor Blake was no exception, leading a team of British scholars and archaeologists to contribute to the dig. To the disappointment of many, most of the tombs had been damaged by cave-ins or plundered, and artifacts were few and infrequent. Blake's team, however, uncovered two graves in remarkably good condition.

The first was small, and the rune-carved weapons bearing messages to the deceased—a man apparently named Sonnungur—scattered throughout suggested it was the tomb of a warrior. Only one weapon, a large-headed hammer, bore an inscription not addressed to Sonnungur; instead, carved onto the handle of the hammer, was: "Whoever holds this hammer, if he is worthy, will possess the power of Thor."

The second grave was far larger than the first, with multiple chambers, containing mounds of possessions and the remains of slaves and animals. The team grew weary long before finishing their excavation of this tomb, and made camp before its yawning mouth for the night. Little did they know what horror they had unleashed upon themselves—the burial mound was now the haunt of a _draugr_, the folkloric corpse of a Norseman who rises to wreak havoc on the living.

The _draugr_ slew three men before the rest of the party was awakened, and others died as they scrambled for guns and digging equipment, which, it seemed, the monster was invulnerable to. Finally, it came down to the creature and Doctor Donald Blake—and, lacking any other weapon close at hand, Blake panicked, and for the first time laid his hands on the hammer from Sunnungur's burial mound...

And in that moment his ordinary clothes became shining armor; his close-cut blond hair grew long and unkempt; his smooth face grew a magnificent beard; his glasses vanished, yet he could see with perfect clarity; his thin form was riddled with muscle. Lightning and thunder split the sky as Donald Blake was granted the power of Thor. And with his newfound strength came an understanding of the power this hammer—Mjolnir—_Thor's_ hammer!—had granted him, and its might made short work of the _draugr_.

Blake collapsed after the creature was disposed of, weeping, bewildered and confused and afraid—and who can blame him? Had he not just seen six men killed by a walking, slavering corpse? Had he not just been transformed and infused with the power of a heathen god? Had he not just conjured lightning from the hammer in his hands to destroy the foul beast that dripped with the blood of his companions? I think none can truly blame him for his moment of weakness!

And as he collapsed to the ground, the base of the hammer struck the ground—and instantly transformed into a fine walking stick, glossy and black, of the perfect length for Blake to hold. His clothes, too, returned to normal—but his body did not revert to normal. The frail and weak Doctor Donald Blake of the past was replaced by a stronger, tougher, and more muscular model—and one with fantastic hair and beard, as well. Blake, through quick experimentation, discovered that the hammer could be transformed into the walking stick (and his clothing likewise changed) simply by slamming its base into the ground, and that he still had access to the powers of the hammer while it was in the form of a walking stick. When he was separated from the stick, he could not use _its_ powers—the lightning burst, for instance, or the ability to control the weather—but its effects on his own body remained.

This determined, Donald Blake faced his next challenge: explaining the deaths of seven men and his newfound appearance to those who knew him in England.

Speaking with Icelandic authorities about the death of his party members caused no trouble for Blake, for they were unfamiliar with his appearance. Having destroyed the body of the ancient walking corpse, he spun a wild but convincing tale of a large beast that had savaged his party members in the night; he claimed to have fired upon it numerous times, finally driving it off. After being held for a time, and some investigation by the local law enforcement, his story checked out, and he was allowed to return to England.

Almost immediately upon his return, Blake repeated this story to administrators at the College—administrators who did not know him well, and would not notice his vastly changed appearance—and turned over the artifacts he had managed to recover from the dig (except, of course, the hammer) before requesting a lengthy sabbatical.

And so, a year later, having exhausted most of his savings, Doctor Donald Blake returned to London and King's College a new man—or, to be more accurate, two new men. For recently, he had decided that a man with power ought to use that power. After all, he had been judged worthy enough to be granted the power of Thor, and he figured he ought not waste it. And so Donald Blake, using the powers of the hammer Mjolnir to rid the streets of London from all manner of scum and vileness, took up a second identity, that of *The Mighty Thor* himself![/sblock]


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## the_myth (Aug 1, 2007)

Blind Azathoth said:
			
		

> Sorry this took me so long. This is only my second M&M character, and the backstory turned out rather longer than I predicted... feel free to make any suggestions you think will improve the character, or point out any errors I might have made.
> 
> [sblock=Statistics]*Doctor Donald Blake, the Mighty Thor*
> 
> ...




I like it.  I had a few suggestions on how to alter it to give you options [I've only made a few more characters than you have, so I too felt a bit shaky in character generation], but I really like your take on Thor!

I kinda wish I had gone a bit simpler now too...


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## Karl Green (Aug 1, 2007)

Blind Azathoth said:
			
		

> Sorry this took me so long. This is only my second M&M character, and the backstory turned out rather longer than I predicted... feel free to make any suggestions you think will improve the character, or point out any errors I might have made.
> 
> *Doctor Donald Blake, the Mighty Thor*




No problem and he does indeed look good. My only suggest would maybe be the Drawback *Normal ID* as it seem pretty good for the normal Doctor also...

I need to read over your history but it looks GREAT 

NOW we only need Ronin to start (NO PRESSURE  )


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 1, 2007)

My apologies, I will get Ronin done today. I had the intention on finishing him last night but instead spent most of the night in the emergency room (long story involving a very long wood splinter and the fact that it was underneath my fingernail). I will get him up by this evening, pending anymore random injuries.


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 1, 2007)

*squirm*

Ow.


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## Karl Green (Aug 1, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> My apologies, I will get Ronin done today. I had the intention on finishing him last night but instead spent most of the night in the emergency room (long story involving a very long wood splinter and the fact that it was underneath my fingernail). I will get him up by this evening, pending anymore random injuries.





Ah, the pain... back in college I did something similar working at the library when I was moving some boards... and got a splinter under the nail almost to the finger joint... man that hurt!!!!

OK well if Ronin is done tonight I will shot for tomorrow to start!!!


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## Karl Green (Aug 1, 2007)

Test (not use to attaching stuff so want to see if it works)

Excellent


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 1, 2007)

Ok, quick question on Ronin. Should i go with the Device power or the Equipment feat? His weapons aren't really super powered or anything, but I am not really familar with the rules for equipment in M&M. Any thoughts?


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 1, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Name: Jessica Drew Romanova
> CODENAME: Black Widow - The Amazing Spider-Woman!
> 
> Strike (Mighty) +3 (6pp)




One minor note here, that Strike is 1pp/rank and Might is a Power Feat so your total points spent would only be 4ppts (3+1)

Looks like you have two more points


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## Karl Green (Aug 1, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Ok, quick question on Ronin. Should i go with the Device power or the Equipment feat? His weapons aren't really super powered or anything, but I am not really familar with the rules for equipment in M&M. Any thoughts?




Its totally up to you BUT assume that Equipment can be lost and broken much easier then Devices... but nothing hard or fast about that in the rules, just kind of how I have always played it.


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## Redclaw (Aug 1, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Ok, quick question on Ronin. Should i go with the Device power or the Equipment feat? His weapons aren't really super powered or anything, but I am not really familar with the rules for equipment in M&M. Any thoughts?



I'm new to the game, but as I read it devices hold powers.  So unless his weapons do special things that you would want to spend power feats on, I would go with equipment.  
And while they're easier to lose/destroy, they're also easier to replace.   
Hawkeye's arrows would be devices, as they have special abilities, but I don't think a normal sword would be.
Just my thoughts.  Good luck with the decision.


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## hero4hire (Aug 1, 2007)

Equipment is extremely cheap, but you cannot use *extra effort* with equipment so if you were planning on any "power stunting" I would go with Device.

*Example:* _Scabbard the Swordmaster Supreme_ only has Mighty Strike 3 with Improved Crit as a Device to represent his Sword. It has no special powers per se but with a power stunt Scabbard can use  Deflect to block bullets, or Blast to represent throwing his sword like a boomerang and having it return to him.
Even though it is technically a "normal sword" Scabbard can do all sorts of tricky things with it. All because he paid extra!

If you do not need to do tricky cool stuff like that, go with equipment.

I had a character once who had "Gun-Fu" he actually bought it as a Innate Blast power with a Medium Flaw of "Any Handgun" to represent his enormous skill and ability to hit targets where it hurts most. Something similiar could be done with a HTH character as well I imagine.


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Equipment is extremely cheap, but you cannot use *extra effort* with equipment so if you were planning on any "power stunting" I would go with Device.




That is a good point, I always forget about 'Extra Effort' with devices vs. equipment also...


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Question: Can we use the Masterful Tactics option from the Mastermind's Manual so that I can use Knowledge: Tactics for Master Plan rolls?





OK I read this over and thought about it a bit... I am of two minds about this. First I think it is fine if we used Tactics instead of the Int check for Master Plan... BUT I have already made up my villains and this might hurt you all more then help


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## hero4hire (Aug 2, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> OK I read this over and thought about it a bit... I am of two minds about this. First I think it is fine if we used Tactics instead of the Int check for Master Plan... BUT I have already made up my villains and this might hurt you all more then help




I am fine with it either/or. Any rule works both ways, as it should be.


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## Shayuri (Aug 2, 2007)

2 more points...oh my...

Well, off hand, I could raise my attack bonus to the PL limit of +8...

Or I could upgrade my Accurate Hearing to Blindsight (Hearing).

Any other ideas? Suggestions welcome.


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> 2 more points...oh my...
> 
> Well, off hand, I could raise my attack bonus to the PL limit of +8...
> 
> ...




No those are both good... I would have a hard time deciding


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## hero4hire (Aug 2, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> 2 more points...oh my...
> 
> Well, off hand, I could raise my attack bonus to the PL limit of +8...
> 
> ...




Maybe some Gather Info? She is a former spy correct? Connections and or Contacts maybe?


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## hero4hire (Aug 2, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> 2 more points...oh my...
> 
> Well, off hand, I could raise my attack bonus to the PL limit of +8...
> 
> ...




Maybe some Gather Info? She is a former spy correct? (I havent read you history) Connections and or Contacts maybe?

In mainstream marvel Jessica was a ex-spy and private eye and Natasha of course was a premiere spy.


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## Shayuri (Aug 2, 2007)

Indeed. Of course, my foreshortened bg shortens her spy career...but there's no reason it has to be that way. Would it be stepping on anyone else's toeses?


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## hero4hire (Aug 2, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Indeed. Of course, my foreshortened bg shortens her spy career...but there's no reason it has to be that way. Would it be stepping on anyone else's toeses?




Shayuri, 

I had a comment/question about Spider Woman's Pheremone Power.

Did you intend this to be a controlled power or one that worked automatically like Jessica Drew/Spider Woman?

Ultimate Power does have a Pheremones power 

*PHEROMONES*
*Effect:* Emotion Control (love)    *Action:* Reaction (active)
*Range:* Sensory (scent)        *Duration:* Sustained (lasting)
*Saving Throw: * Will            *Cost: * 4 points per rank

Your body emits exceptionally strong pheromones, bio-chemical cues that affect attraction. Anyone coming within (power rank x 5) feet of you must make a Will saving throw. On a failed save, the subject’s attitude towards you becomes friendly. On a failure by 5 or more, it becomes helpful, and on a failure by 10 or more, the subject becomes fanatically devoted to you (see Interaction, M&M, page 175, for details). The subject gets a new Will save for each interval on the Time Table that passes to shake off the effect. A successful save means the subject is unaffected by your Pheromones but must make a new saving throw for each interval that passes on the Time Table while in your area of effect (one minute, five minutes, and so forth). Spending a long period of time in close proximity to a character with Pheromones makes all but the strongest willed likely to fall under the influence of such an individual.
Your Pheromones affect others automatically, with no action or effort required on your part, although you still need to interact normally to talk to or order your newly cooperative “followers.” Once affected, subjects can move outside your radius and remain under your influence until they successfully shake off the effect; those still inside your radius when they do must save against the power again on the following round. Another successful save staves off the effect for at least a minute (when a new save is required). Since Pheromones are carried on the air, subjects that do not breathe— due to Immunity (suffocation) or Life Support, for example—are unaffected, and sensory effects that block scent can temporarily block the effect of your Pheromones as well.


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## Shayuri (Aug 2, 2007)

Dude! That's awesome!

I don't have Unlimited Powers, so thank you! I'll replace my clunky old version immediately.

I suspect "men only" would still be a valid Limit on its cost...making it 3pp/level?

..

Of course...it's pretty expensive compared to mine...ow.

I could get 2 ranks of it with one of those 2 points that got freed up. That's enough to ensnare weakminded minions...


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## hero4hire (Aug 2, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Dude! That's awesome!
> 
> I don't have Unlimited Powers, so thank you! I'll replace my clunky old version immediately.
> 
> ...




Yeah it is one of the suggested Flaws

*Limited:* Your Pheromones only affect a particular type of
subject (only women, or only children, for example) or you are
limited to achieving no more than a helpful effect; subjects
never become fanatically devoted to you.

Also having it as a Reaction mean you are free to clobber a bad guy who saved against it
run away etc..which makes it nicer and yes MUCH more expensive.

I know Jessica Drew only had minimal ranks of this, but of course since we are all variations of a theme I'd buy whatever you deem to be within your concept.


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## Shayuri (Aug 2, 2007)

Yeah, I'm gonna take Connected, and put the other point into the Pheremone power. Thus I have 2 ranks of Pheremones and Connected now.

2 ranks should be enough that she can use it to influence mooks, while not likely to affect people of real power or importance...including US! That's good, because, since females are affected oppositely, she won't be randomly assaulted by women either. 

So yeah. 2 ranks is good.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 2, 2007)

*Chouten Bakuya a.k.a. RONIN*

Ok gents, sorry for the wait. I believe he is done, checked my math multiple times and such. He is entirely power-free. I went with the Clint Barton version of Ronin, so he doesn't have the ability to copy things as the original did. He is just a human in peak condition. The only real question I still have is: Does he have unlimited shuriken? Or is there some ammo limit? the books says it's out of panel and such, but I wanted to check with you. I'll whip up a back story real quick like now.

[sblock]

*Abilities * (36 pp)
Str 16 (+3)
Dex 20 (+5)
Con 18 (+4)
Int 14 (+2)
Wis 14 (+2)
Cha 14 (+2) 

*Stats* (51 pp)
Attack +10 (20 pp)
Defense 20 (13 Flatfooted) (12 pp, +4 Dodge bonus)

Ref +13 (8 pp, +5 Dex)
Fort +9 (5 pp, +4 Con)
Will +8 (6 pp, +2 Wis)

Toughness +6 (+4 Flatfooted) (+4 Con, +2 Defensive Roll)

Init +13

Damage :
Katana +6 (18-20, 10 ft)
Nunchaku +5
Shuriken +1–6 (Autofire, 30 ft)
Unarmed +3

*Skills * (25 pp)
Acrobatics +17 (12 Ranks, +5 Dex)
Climb +15 (12 Ranks, +3 Str)
Escape Artist +17 (12 Ranks, +5 Dex)
Gather Information +10 (8 Ranks, +2 Cha)
Investigate +10 (8 Ranks, +2 Int)
Notice +14 (12 Ranks, +2 Wis)
Search +14 (12 Ranks, +2 Int)
Slight of Hand +17 (12 Ranks, +5 Dex)
Stealth +17 (12 Ranks, +5 Dex)

*Feats* (38 pp)
Acrobatic Bluff
Blind Fight
Contacts 
Defensive Roll (2)
Dodge Focus (4)
Elusive Target
Evasion (2)
Grappling Finesse
Hide in Plain Sight
Improved Block
Improved Critical
Improved Initiative (2)
Improved Grab
Improved Grapple
Improved Pin
Improved Throw
Improved Trip
Move By Action
Diehard
Endurance
Equipment (3)
Fearless
Instant Up
Precise Shot
Prone Fighting
Quick Draw
Ranged Pin
Stunning Attack
Takedown Attack
Uncanny Dodge (Hearing)


*Equipment* (15 / 15 points)
Katana (Mighty, +3 Damage, Size Medium, Slashing, 18-20 x2, 10ft) 7 points
Nunchaku (Mighty, +2 Damage, Size Small, Bludgeoning) 3 points
Shuriken (+1 Damage, Autofire, Size Tiny, Piercing, 30 ft) 5 points

Tradeoffs: +2 Attack / -2 Damage, +2 Defense / -2 Toughness

36 Abilities + 51 Stats + 25 Skills + 38 Feats = 150
[/sblock]


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> *Chouten Bakuya a.k.a. RONIN*
> 
> Ok gents, sorry for the wait. I believe he is done, checked my math multiple times and such. He is entirely power-free. I went with the Clint Barton version of Ronin, so he doesn't have the ability to copy things as the original did. He is just a human in peak condition. The only real question I still have is: Does he have unlimited shuriken? Or is there some ammo limit? the books says it's out of panel and such, but I wanted to check with you. I'll whip up a back story real quick like now.




There is not Ammo limit per say... but within reason, or I can say "You run out of shurikens now" at least until you get them back from those you have thrown them into 

Otherwise looks good...


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

OK I am just finishing up the FIRST post... look for it soon and be forward that it is going to be... interesting


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> I am fine with it either/or. Any rule works both ways, as it should be.




Yes I think that I am going to use it for all then...


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

The the game has started HERE


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

Note, I know that some are still fleshing out background BUT with the stats I wanted to get going and start 

SOOO if you are still somewhat modifying a character that is cool so long as no big changes


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## Shayuri (Aug 2, 2007)

Hehe. No worries. I pointed this out in my post too, but Spiderwoman has Uncanny Dodge, not Danger Sense.


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hehe. No worries. I pointed this out in my post too, but Spiderwoman has Uncanny Dodge, not Danger Sense.




I could have SWORE I saw Danger Sense on there, but I will edit 

NOTE also about describing your actions... you don't have to go to far in detail, just how you are 'attacking' or where you are moving...


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## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

OH and who was rolling for CAPTAIN BRITANIA again?

He has Uncanny Dodge, Reflex Save +8, Toughness Save +8, Evasion (2), Notice +12 and Initiative +10. His main attack is his Shield in melee, so he might not be able to attack this round if he can, just move (and with Speed 1, he can move 100ft as a move action)


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## Redclaw (Aug 2, 2007)

So, I'm not sure how people feel about my defensive efforts.  I figured the force field would be useful to those who rely more on defensive roll or active powers for toughness, as they might be flat-footed, etc.  In active battle I'll probably use it less so that I can have an offensive option or two.
I'll generally try to be ready to deflect ranged attacks, but that obviously isn't much help in melee.  I figure we've got several melee-machines, so I'll just try to focus on keeping you covered and going after anyone who seems in my league, damage-output wise.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 2, 2007)

This will help later but I found a nice map of central London HERE


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## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> _His flip is just fluff, no real movement there. He autofires his shuriken for 6 damage and draws his katana using his quick draw.
> Attack=28_




I believe the shurikens do +1 damage, but with Auto-fire, for every 2 you make your Attack roll over the target's defense you do +1 damage up to +5 (with a roll 10 over their defense). Just want to be sure...


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## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> toughness   I'll spend one hero point to reroll the 10...
> for an 18.  (forgot to copy it, but rerolled again for a 23.  Feel free to use the 18)




I am pretty sure you can only spend a Hero Point once to re-rolling any one save (see M&M pg. 121, Using Hero Points “You can spend as many hero points as you have, but only one hero point on any given benefit per round”)


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## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> rolling for Captain Britannia!
> 
> Readying melee attack to use against first enemy that steps into melee range.




You can roll, and post the results, just in case he gets the chance


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## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'm gonna take Connected, and put the other point into the Pheremone power. Thus I have 2 ranks of Pheremones and Connected now.
> 
> 2 ranks should be enough that she can use it to influence mooks, while not likely to affect people of real power or importance...including US! That's good, because, since females are affected oppositely, she won't be randomly assaulted by women either.
> 
> So yeah. 2 ranks is good.




Can you update her with which ever way you are building her? Unless I looked and missed it that is


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## hero4hire (Aug 3, 2007)

Ugh! What horrid rolls, yet a natural 20 on Notice! Mr Hulk very observantly gets his @SS kicked!


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## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Ugh! What horrid rolls, yet a natural 20 on Notice! Mr Hulk very observantly gets his @SS kicked!




Well that's part of the reason to give extra Hero Points (almost everyone spent at least one)... Hulk might want to also


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## Shayuri (Aug 3, 2007)

Hero, dont' forget your Hero Points!

Karl, I'll update ASAP. Sorry, been a busy day. For now, just assume any male coming into melee with her gets to roll a DC 12 Will save or find his attitude being adjusted. 

I have to take off...if someone else could handle Captain Brit's attack roll this once, I'd be much obliged. Lots going on tonight over here.


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## hero4hire (Aug 3, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hero, dont' forget your Hero Points!




Yeah..I will wait to do something heroic with them.

It always struck me as cheesy to _instantly_ use the points you just earned for being screwed over by Fiats to *not* be screwed by Fiats. 

So I will wait and see how bad I took it and maybe recover from there...


----------



## the_myth (Aug 3, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Yeah..I will wait to do something heroic with them.
> 
> It always struck me as cheesy to _instantly_ use the points you just earned for being screwed over by Fiats to *not* be screwed by Fiats.
> 
> So I will wait and see how bad I took it and maybe recover from there...





My thoughts exactly.  Plus I get to see who pairs off and tailor specific attacks on the un-paired.

Hero Points make good power stunts!  hehe


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 3, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> I am pretty sure you can only spend a Hero Point once to re-rolling any one save (see M&M pg. 121, Using Hero Points “You can spend as many hero points as you have, but only one hero point on any given benefit per round”)



I only wanted to use one, I was just saying that I'd forgotten to copy the link to invis. castle, so I didn't a second roll, but didn't want to claim a higher result.
So, I rolled the 10, spent a hero point and rolled 18.  I just forgot to copy the result and was unable to link it, so I rerolled again to show my success, but the result was higher and I didn't want to claim that my roll had been high.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 3, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> I only wanted to use one, I was just saying that I'd forgotten to copy the link to invis. castle, so I didn't a second roll, but didn't want to claim a higher result.
> So, I rolled the 10, spent a hero point and rolled 18.  I just forgot to copy the result and was unable to link it, so I rerolled again to show my success, but the result was higher and I didn't want to claim that my roll had been high.




Redclaw it would be very helpful to not only roll under the name Justice but to state what your rolls are for under notes.

Your reflex saves were rolled without a name, and there are 13 1d20 rolls for Justice from 10:18 to 10:40. 

Putting what the roll is for under notes makes it easier to retrieve your rolls and doublecheck the accuracy of them.

Also since there are other people rolling under the name "Justice" it will also help to differentiate your rolls from somebody else's.

*Edit:* Also I might check with the GM to see if your Force field was on during the surprise explosions as it is a Sustained Power


----------



## demongg (Aug 3, 2007)

*Karl - way cool!*

Hey Karl!  (everyone)

Any chance I can get into the game?  
As a side note -  I got to play in this first bit of "issue 1" that Karl ran in real life and of course set the scenes with my own 2-3 game run to create the idea.  

It's truly awesome to imagine -  the only sucky thing (for Karl and I) is that we can't find 2-3 more people physically here in Seattle to PLAY this game on Table Top.  


Anyway -  if there's space, I'd love to play.  If not, no worries...  I could come in before or after this opening scene if that's an option.

The characters I'd be interested in making to play would be:

-  Iron Man
-  Carol Danvers (Ms. Marvel)
-  Thor
-  Machine Man
-  Ant Man (Giant Man, Yellowjacket)

OR
perhaps even better, since you already have 8 PCs,  - rather than being a "field agent" I could play support as scientist and potential Avenger:

-  Hank Pym


Everyone loves to hate Pym, and it'd be fun to play.

anyway -  let me know.
thanks

-kev-


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 3, 2007)

Karl,

You should make a deal with Kev that he should GM a M&M game here too.

Like a Second Stringer Marvel Villains Game?? *HINT HINT*

~H4H (who was in Kev's villains game in first edition M&M)


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 3, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> I believe the shurikens do +1 damage, but with Auto-fire, for every 2 you make your Attack roll over the target's defense you do +1 damage up to +5 (with a roll 10 over their defense). Just want to be sure...




Yeah, sorry bout that. Still kinda shaky at this. But with an attack roll of 28 I assume I shall be doing more than 1 damage, eh?


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 3, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Your reflex saves were rolled without a name, and there are 13 1d20 rolls for Justice from 10:18 to 10:40.



Sorry, I'm still learning the Invisible Castle routine.  I forgot to enter a name with the first rolls, and then as I was prepping my deflect I forgot that it took a -2 penalty for each extra use in a round, so I had initially rolled 5 at 1d20+8 and had to bo back and roll one at +8, one at +6, until I got a low enough result that I assumed it missed and I couldn't deflect any more.



			
				hero4hire said:
			
		

> Putting what the roll is for under notes makes it easier to retrieve your rolls and doublecheck the accuracy of them.
> 
> Also since there are other people rolling under the name "Justice" it will also help to differentiate your rolls from somebody else's.



Good to know that I can retrieve them.  I obviously wasn't aware of the search capabilities.



			
				hero4hire said:
			
		

> *Edit:* Also I might check with the GM to see if your Force field was on during the surprise explosions as it is a Sustained Power



I assumed, based on his question of standard array set up, but also included in my description that I was factoring in the force field, figuring he could subtract the 7 from the rolls if necessary.

Thanks for the tips, and please bear with me, as this is my first run with PbP.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> I only wanted to use one, I was just saying that I'd forgotten to copy the link to invis. castle, so I didn't a second roll, but didn't want to claim a higher result.
> So, I rolled the 10, spent a hero point and rolled 18.  I just forgot to copy the result and was unable to link it, so I rerolled again to show my success, but the result was higher and I didn't want to claim that my roll had been high.




AH I see, I was not 100% sure there... no that's cool I trust your rolls, you can take the 18. Just remember to post the rolls in the futre


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> *Edit:* Also I might check with the GM to see if your Force field was on during the surprise explosions as it is a Sustained Power




Yep... I did not want to TAKE anyone right away  which is why I said that the Scarlet Witch and Justice both had their FF'ed up, and that the Hulk was the Hulk, Thor was Thor, etc...


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Yeah, sorry bout that. Still kinda shaky at this. But with an attack roll of 28 I assume I shall be doing more than 1 damage, eh?




Totally, when I update the Round you will see that you hit well over +10 Shark Killer's defense, but just want to make sure you know and all


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

demongg said:
			
		

> Hey Karl!  (everyone)
> 
> Any chance I can get into the game?
> As a side note -  I got to play in this first bit of "issue 1" that Karl ran in real life and of course set the scenes with my own 2-3 game run to create the idea.
> ...







			
				hero4hire said:
			
		

> Karl,
> 
> You should make a deal with Kev that he should GM a M&M game here too.
> 
> ...




Hehe, yes AND Kevin also ran an Averagers game where I was playing Catpain America.... all was VERY cool 

Anyway, the group is pretty darn big, and I worry about big groups as it only takes one or two people to stop posting to throw a monkey wrench into things BUT I always totally enjoy your posts SOOOO totally 100% you can add someone. 

Now you might not be in the big battle at the beginning AND you already know the plot  but I trust you to not play with the knowledge as it were. 

Maybe you can play Captain Britania for the first part and we will come up with a reason why you did not come with the group to the place they are now


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

OK, just waiting for Jemal to post for Wolverine... I may make rolls for him if no post by the end of the day or so


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

hehe Thanks man... ok Surprise Round posting a coming...


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Wolverine does NOT have evasion, and I'm going to use a HP to reroll my 13 Tougness.
> 28 + 10(HeroPoint)=38.




Just a quick note, when you spend a Hero Point to re-roll, you only get he +10 if you rolled a 10 or below, so that you always get at least a 11-20 on your re-roll. As Wolverine rolled an 18, he does not get the +10, but a 28 is still high enough 






			
				Elric said:
			
		

> Karl- I don't think Master Plan affects all rolls, only some subset of them.
> 
> Hulk, presumably Thor, Widow, Wolverine will get Inspire bonuses for actions next round.  Ronin may want to delay 3 init counts to get Inspire bonus to his atck next round instead of a round later.  Inspire is +5 to atck, saves, skill checks: consider power attck and using feints or the like to rake adv of skill bonus.
> 
> Also, people may want to have "attack a stunned opponent if there is one" as a contingent tactic.  Not enough time to really roll saves, thanks to everyone who is rolling them for me.




I re-read Master Plan (M&M 2nd ed, pg. 62) and it is to “all skill rolls and attack rolls”. I did mix it up and give it to Shark Killer for his Toughness save BUT he rolled so high anyway it does not matter BUT I will edit. \

Yes Captain Britania’s *Inspire* will help Wolverine, Justice, Black Widow, the Hulk in Round 1 and Ronin in Round 2 (as he acts before you). Depending on when Scarlet Witch and Thor go, they maybe helped on that round or the next round






			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> Toughness: 14 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1190656
> 
> (well...that was fun. Sometimes I kind of prefer hit points.  :\ )
> 
> ...




You do still have Hero Points BUT yes it does seem at times that Invisible Castle is all over the place…


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 3, 2007)

I can't use another Hero Point. Those results came from the Surprise Round, and I already rerolled one of my Reflex saves in the Surprise Round.

I guess I could spend one to come unstunned in Round 1.

But that's getting mighty expensive...and I suspect my attack roll would be pretty laughable at this point. -4 now, I think...for wounds and Despair. And frankly, since my init sucks, most of the baddies get another round to whomp on her if they like. So I'll wait and see how she is after that before I make up my mind.

If I live, I might have to get autofire on my attack. Maybe another AP...I dunno.

...or regeneration. Or something. I figured with PL maxed defense and toughness, it wouldn't be such an issue...obviously I was sadly mistaken.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I can't use another Hero Point. Those results came from the Surprise Round, and I already rerolled one of my Reflex saves in the Surprise Round.
> 
> I guess I could spend one to come unstunned in Round 1.
> 
> ...




Well, one BIG thing to remember, as I said in my very first post here when I talked about the game... comic logic applies... in MANY stories the badguys beat up the heroes at first... and then the heroes come back, making revenge sweet as it were 

You will get a couple more HP this encounter also, just as an FYI... I don't want to discurage people to much... it is going to be a rough fight


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 3, 2007)

Oh, I know. It's just...blargh! Taken down in the darn surprise round. How humiliating.


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 3, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Oh, I know. It's just...blargh! Taken down in the darn surprise round. How humiliating.



That's the way those villains work.  They know they couldn't beat the Avengers in a fair fight, so they have to catch us unawares.
Don't worry, Justice will be served, and they will pay for their lack of scruples.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 3, 2007)

demongg said:
			
		

> Hey Karl!  (everyone)
> 
> The characters I'd be interested in making to play would be:
> 
> ...




Someone is playing Thor... hmm of the others I would be interested in just about any you might make... but Iron Man and Ant Man would be hella kewl, and I do really like Machine Man also!!!


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 3, 2007)

Just to be sure, Hulk is up to 3 bruises at the start of round one?


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 4, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Just to be sure, Hulk is up to 3 bruises at the start of round one?




Yes, 3 Bruise and 2 Injure


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 4, 2007)

Necro Kinder, can you post your final character over in the Rogue's Gallery? Also, Shayruri, you were going to update Black Widow soon  

No pressure, just easier for me to find your characters over there


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 4, 2007)

Eep. Yep. Fixed. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Jemal (Aug 4, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Just a quick note, when you spend a Hero Point to re-roll, you only get he +10 if you rolled a 10 or below, so that you always get at least a 11-20 on your re-roll. As Wolverine rolled an 18, he does not get the +10, but a 28 is still high enough




kk.


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 4, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Necro Kinder, can you post your final character over in the Rogue's Gallery?




Posted! (Background still in progress).

Also, took one rank out of Sleight of Hand (now at 11 ranks) and put it into him speaking Japanese, something I meant to do a while ago. Shouldn't change anything in game though.


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 4, 2007)

Here's my dilemma. 

I'd like to spend an HP to recover this round (round 1), but BEFORE I do that, I need to see the results of previous initiatives. If the baddies take this chance to beat up on Spidey, then it may take more than an HP to recover. 

Any chance for a partial update, or should I just post what I'm PLANNING on doing, and let the events of the round shoot that to ribbons?


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 4, 2007)

I suppose... I will try and post tonight... as I have to get ready for my Face-to-Face Warhammer 2nd ed game that I am running today


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 4, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Will save # 1: 17
> Will save #2: 13 Hero Point Reroll: 11+10=21.
> 
> Failed both will saves, spent hero point on a reroll, failed IT as well.  As you said it was a lethal attack, I guess I'm dead.  Fortuantely, Wolverine's don't stay dead for long.
> T minus 9 rounds to Comeback




NO its not that bad 

The first roll you failed by 1, so yes you are affected by Dispair (-2 to attack, skill rolls, etc)
The second Roll, you got a 21, so failed by 2 and took a Injured and a Bruised hit, but you are otherwise unaffected. Next round you will heal both of that, if you take no other wounds.


----------



## Elric (Aug 4, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Next round you will heal both of that, if you take no other wounds.




I think he'll only heal the Injury, since even a character with Regeneration only gets to make one recovery check a round (and only on his action/init count, so you can't instantly heal a bruise dealt to you later in a round just because you were uninjured to start the round).

Sorry about the OC post in the IC thread, but when a guy thinks he's dead, and he's not, you don't want to wait to make sure he sees the OC thread.


----------



## Blind Azathoth (Aug 5, 2007)

In response to Elric's OOC comment in the main thread: The _total_ of my roll was 11; the actual rolled number was just 5.


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 5, 2007)

[sblock=H4H]I thought I should let you know... I'm lurking your RHoD game, as my face-to-face group is just starting chapter three tomorrow.  We almost got wiped out where your PCs are right now, so I'm interested to see how they do.[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (Aug 5, 2007)

I must've got confused, I thought you said it was a Lethal attack.. meaning save vs death. (Was kinda wondering why a baddie had a "75% chance to KILL YOU" attack.)

As for the Regen - I believe the power has a line about 'it would cost 35 points to make one of each check every round'(Paraphrase, don't have book in front of me ATM), leading one to believe that it's 1 check per condition, but you still can't recover from one thing if you have something worse (Can't make a bruised recovery check unless you recover from disabled/etc first.)


----------



## Elric (Aug 5, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I must've got confused, I thought you said it was a Lethal attack.. meaning save vs death. (Was kinda wondering why a baddie had a "75% chance to KILL YOU" attack.)
> 
> As for the Regen - I believe the power has a line about 'it would cost 35 points to make one of each check every round'(Paraphrase, don't have book in front of me ATM), leading one to believe that it's 1 check per condition, but you still can't recover from one thing if you have something worse (Can't make a bruised recovery check unless you recover from disabled/etc first.)




I have actually asked both of these questions in AtomicThinkTank's official rules forum: You have to recover from conditions in order and you only get one recovery check a round:
http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=17632&highlight=
http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=12347&highlight=

Also, Jemal, you took being killed during the surprise round better than I could ever imagine taking it.  I would be like "wtf, you killed me during the surprise round of the first combat, you rat-bastard!"



> In response to Elric's OOC comment in the main thread: The total of my roll was 11; the actual rolled number was just 5.




Oops, sorry.  Jemal had made the mistake I mentioned earlier, so I thought you had made it as well.

For tactics: Banshee, Gargoyle King and Hellstone all seem very dangerous due to special attacks.  Shayuri, you might want to just attack for no: you'll get the inspire bonus and with a ranged attack staggered doesn't do that much to you until you pick up another one, in which case you're KOd.


----------



## the_myth (Aug 5, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Also, Jemal, you took being killed during the surprise round better than I could ever imagine taking it.  I would be like "wtf, you killed me during the surprise round of the first combat, you rat-bastard!"




Jemal's playing Wolverine!   You know he wouldn't be dead for long...    



			
				Elric said:
			
		

> For tactics: Banshee, Gargoyle King and Hellstone all seem very dangerous due to special attacks.  Shayuri, you might want to just attack for no: you'll get the inspire bonus and with a ranged attack staggered doesn't do that much to you until you pick up another one, in which case you're KOd.




Well, I'm not too sure we aren't SUPPOSED to lose this combat...  hehe

We'll see how our 1st real round goes.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 5, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> [sblock=H4H]I thought I should let you know... I'm lurking your RHoD game, as my face-to-face group is just starting chapter three tomorrow.  We almost got wiped out where your PCs are right now, so I'm interested to see how they do.[/sblock]




[sblock=redclaw]  They are making some bad mistakes, between the inactions of some, and provoking of attacks from others. I dont know how they will fair.  [/sblock]


----------



## the_myth (Aug 5, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> [sblock=redclaw]  They are making some bad mistakes, between the inactions of some, and provoking of attacks from others. I dont know how they will fair.  [/sblock]





[sblock] So, does putting things in a spoiler block mean we're not supposed to read your commentary?

Just let us know...since it's only been one surprise round and you seem to have some  suggestions about what we're supposed to do or not.[/sblock]


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 5, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> [sblock] So, does putting things in a spoiler block mean we're not supposed to read your commentary?
> 
> Just let us know...since it's only been one surprise round and you seem to have some  suggestions about what we're supposed to do or not.[/sblock]




LOL, Redclaw was commenting on a game I DM, not this combat, and I was replying to it. Sorry for the confusion.  

And generally yes, it is considered polite to _not_ read spoilers that are not addressed to you, though in this case; _no harm no foul_ I suppose.


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 5, 2007)

Well, I'm not just staggered, I'm stunned too.

But I guess I can use an HP to recover.

However, if they keep beating on me before my init, odds are good I'll be well and truly out long before I can act.

We'll see how it goes, I guess.


----------



## the_myth (Aug 5, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Well, I'm not just staggered, I'm stunned too.
> 
> But I guess I can use an HP to recover.
> 
> ...




The stun only lasts for one round, until just before your attacker's next turn...unless I am mis-reading the rules on page 164.

It's too bad the villain targeting you goes FIRST.  But that does mean you're no longer stunned at the top of the round.

Let's see how Round 1 goes....a few of us have some tricks up our gloves.


----------



## Elric (Aug 5, 2007)

Shayuri, you'll have Inspire giving you +5 to saves as of init count 22 and your stun wears off before the turn of the attacker who stunned you, so you should be able to avoid another staggered result.

Since I don't have my books, can someone remind me what despair does.  I want to say -2 to saves, skill checks, attack rolls, with a duration of Sustained Lasting; so until someone manages to stun Banshee and have her fail a concentration check to maintain it, or until a minute goes by and we get another save.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 5, 2007)

OK I updated the round through Hulks action as I want to see what Black Widow and Scarlet Witch are doing (makes saves, etc. remember if they are AFTER Captain Britania when then they are +5 to your roll, and you are also +5 to your rolls in Round 2, until Captain Britania's next action)


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 5, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Since I don't have my books, can someone remind me what despair does.  I want to say -2 to saves, skill checks, attack rolls, with a duration of Sustained Lasting; so until someone manages to stun Banshee and have her fail a concentration check to maintain it, or until a minute goes by and we get another save.




Ah, just looked at the Rules again myself... "-2 to attack rolls, defense, and checks" (I am assuming skill checks?). Duration is Sustained (Lasting)


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 5, 2007)

Posted. Used an HP to unstun, if necessary. I think I'd normally be stunned all through round 1, unstunning in Round 2... Glad I used it if so, cuz I got a hit in! Yay!


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 5, 2007)

Actually my mistake there, Shayuri. You would have been Un-stunned just before Goblyn's turn as he hit you in the Surprise round... totally sorry there so you don't have to spend a HP this round to become unstunned...


----------



## Jemal (Aug 6, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> Jemal's playing Wolverine!   You know he wouldn't be dead for long...




*L* too true. If I weren't full of fun regenerative powers, I would've been a bit less ok with it.  When I thought that it was save vs death, I figured that was WHY he targetted wolverine instead of someone else, was cuz he didn't wanna start the TPK boulder.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 6, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Ah, just looked at the Rules again myself... "-2 to attack rolls, defense, and checks" (I am assuming skill checks?). Duration is Sustained (Lasting)




As per the errata (and page 171) Shaken is _–2 on attack rolls, *saving throws*, and checks._

So anyone Shaken also has a -2 to toughness saves by RAW.

Checks include Grapple checks and ability checks on top of skill checks.


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

h4h- Is despair intended to give the shaken condition?  I was under the impression that shaken was the first result for emotion control: fear, but that despair might be purposefully different.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> h4h- Is despair intended to give the shaken condition?  I was under the impression that shaken was the first result for emotion control: fear, but that despair might be purposefully different.




They do both say The subject is shaken, but have only slightly different effects when you fail the save by 10 in Ultimate Power. (One makes you Panicked the other Hopeless)

In the end it is up to Karl on how he wants to interpret the rules, but I do know _Shaken_ as a Condition was put into the Errata so all pages match the Condition Summary on page 171 core book.


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

We'll see what Karl says.  Darn, I would have really liked to take out Hyde (I remember Capt America doing it in an avenger's comic book) but it looks like I missed.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> We'll see what Karl says.  Darn, I would have really liked to take out Hyde (I remember Capt America doing it in an avenger's comic book) but it looks like I missed.




Extra Effort to Surge?


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Extra Effort to Surge?




Well, HP to reroll the attack would probably be the best way to do it- but I kind of wonder if I should use all of my HP this early on.  If, as someone said, we're meant to lose this encounter then spending all your HP while losing is worse than spending fewer HP while losing.  On the other hand, if I don't hit Hyde now he may hit me and I'll have to spend the HP anyway...

Edit- wait a second.  Is Hyde prone after that hit from Thor?  If so, that's +4 more on my attack.  For that matter, was I prone after the hit from Shark?

Further edit- Karl, shouldn't Wolverine heal 1 injured wound rather than 1 bruised wound, since he began his turn with both an injury and a bruise.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Well, HP to reroll the attack would probably be the best way to do it- but I kind of wonder if I should use all of my HP this early on.  If, as someone said, we're meant to lose this encounter then spending all your HP while losing is worse than spending fewer HP while losing.  On the other hand, if I don't hit Hyde now he may hit me and I'll have to spend the HP anyway...
> 
> Edit- wait a second.  Is Hyde prone after that hit from Thor?  If so, that's +4 more on my attack.  For that matter, was I prone after the hit from Shark?





Mmm. Sometimes I like to Surge, since you can 
a) choose different feats and manuevers to use for the attack, like all out attack, agressive stance etc.

b) you dont get Fatigued until the beginning of the round immediately after extra effort.
Which you can eliminate instantly with said HP OR if the tide has turned you save that HP and fight on Fatigued. 

BUT In this case I can see why the 45% of having a +10 to the roll might be attractive.   

I think I am going to hold off on my action until Goliath attacks. My defense is fairly low for that attack and I may just get stunned/staggered.


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Blind- I just want to mention that you can probably condition the amount you want to Power Attack for on the result of something like a startle attempt (since you presumably know whether it succeeded or not).  If so, against Hyde something like PA 2 if Startle fails and PA 5if it succeeds might be useful.

Redclaw- are you pinning Gargoyle King or just grappling him?  If he's pinned, someone with a large hammer and exceedingly good Fort save might want to PA 5 him.

Lastly, if Capt Brit only stuns Hyde, can someone (perhaps someone with PA) please attack him before he becomes un-stunned (next round on my init count).

A few char build comments:
Question to Necro: I was just looking at your char sheet and noticed that you have Improved Crit but no weapon listed.  Is this for your katana?  Did you buy Improved Crit a second time for the katana you took as equipment as well?  If so, you might want to note on the that when you swing the katana it crits on a 17-20 (nice    - I like this way of doing a weapon master char- high attack, low base damage but 2-3 ranks in Imp Crit)

Blind- that is a very elegant build of Thor.  Nice work.  You might want to consider a slight trade-off in favor of Toughness and/or Damage over Attack and/or Defense.

Jemal, Blind, anyone else w/ Rage 2: I noticed that a bunch of chars have Rage 2, but no benefit listed for the second rank.  Are you all taking it for the 10-round duration?  Might want to list this.


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Redclaw- are you pinning Gargoyle King or just grappling him?  If he's pinned, someone with a large hammer and exceedingly good Fort save might want to PA 5 him.



Last round I tried to damage him, but based on his save I don't think that'll work, so pinning makes sense.  Thanks.


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Question to Necro: I was just looking at your char sheet and noticed that you have Improved Crit but no weapon listed.  Is this for your katana?  Did you buy Improved Crit a second time for the katana you took as equipment as well?  If so, you might want to note on the that when you swing the katana it crits on a 17-20 (nice    - I like this way of doing a weapon master char- high attack, low base damage but 2-3 ranks in Imp Crit)




Oh hey...I threw that in at the last minute and forgot I had it. Yeah, it's for the Katana, I'll go edit that.


----------



## Jemal (Aug 6, 2007)

OK, the way things are going, we might have to come up with some rules for the Fastball Special...


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> OK, the way things are going, we might have to come up with some rules for the Fastball Special...




Captain Britainia has Teamwork 2, so he can use aid another Wolverine for +4 to attack.  How much does Wolverine weigh again?  Captain Brit only has 27 Str for lifting, so the fastball special would work really well with Capt Brit if he weighed, oh, about 125 lbs  

Edit- actually, I think only have to be able to throw you 20 feet to reach Hellstone, so 200-250 lbs might work too- can someone look up Capt Brit's Heavy Load, given that he has 27 Str.


----------



## Jemal (Aug 6, 2007)

Wolverine + Adamantine Skeleton = 300+ Pounds. sry, but we'll need Hulk or Thor.


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 6, 2007)

Actually, Black Widow has some super strength. It'd be weird, but she could probably throw 300lbs a pretty good distance.


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 6, 2007)

Even Justice has a shot at throwing you using his TK.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Wolverine + Adamantine Skeleton = 300+ Pounds. sry, but we'll need Hulk or Thor.




OH I forgot to mention in the post if Wolverine wants to "Rage", his conditions have been meet


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> h4h- Is despair intended to give the shaken condition?  I was under the impression that shaken was the first result for emotion control: fear, but that despair might be purposefully different.






			
				hero4hire said:
			
		

> They do both say The subject is shaken, but have only slightly different effects when you fail the save by 10 in Ultimate Power. (One makes you Panicked the other Hopeless)
> 
> In the end it is up to Karl on how he wants to interpret the rules, but I do know _Shaken_ as a Condition was put into the Errata so all pages match the Condition Summary on page 171 core book.




Hmm, I will have to read over my rules tonight when I get home to figure it out...


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Edit- wait a second.  Is Hyde prone after that hit from Thor?  If so, that's +4 more on my attack.  For that matter, was I prone after the hit from Shark?
> 
> Further edit- Karl, shouldn't Wolverine heal 1 injured wound rather than 1 bruised wound, since he began his turn with both an injury and a bruise.





Yes I believe you are prone after suffering Knockback. An Acrobatics check will let you stand as a Free Action though

As for Regen, for some reason I think I was thinking that it was the lowest order first, but on reflection, it is suppose to be the worst first SOOO yes Wolverine would have healed his Injured wound first. Will edit (sorry about that)


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Actually, Black Widow has some super strength. It'd be weird, but she could probably throw 300lbs a pretty good distance.




 why is that weird


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 6, 2007)

Hehe. You just think of some big burly guy like Colossus throwing the Fastball. Not a petite, svelte young lady.


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Yes I believe you are prone after suffering Knockback. An Acrobatics check will let you stand as a Free Action though




Yes, that's what I did (and I made the check).  So I won't use an HP to reroll my attack roll either, as I said in my post.

Blind- Thor doesn't have Precise Shot.  So that provides a really good rationale for Capt Britain to attack Hyde- you really might hit me if I stay put!


----------



## Jemal (Aug 6, 2007)

RE: Regen - It doesn't matter, As I heal the Bruised this round anyways, meaning I have left whatever happens to me after that, I think.

As for Rage... Well, the 'switching' part isn't mindless enough, though next turn perhaps if I have someone to melee he'll "slip".

Also, my rage rank 2 is for the increased modifiers, not the extra rounds.


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> RE: Regen - It doesn't matter, As I heal the Bruised this round anyways, meaning I have left whatever happens to me after that, I think.
> 
> As for Rage... Well, the 'switching' part isn't mindless enough, though next turn perhaps if I have someone to melee he'll "slip".
> 
> Also, my rage rank 2 is for the increased modifiers, not the extra rounds.




It could matter if you take more damage before then.  Also, it did matter because regenerating the injury gave you a +1 on your save against the most recent Mind Blast.

Lastly, Inspiration will have worn off by the time you get your next attack- note that you had it for your last attack.


----------



## Jemal (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> It could matter if you take more damage before then.  Also, it did matter because regenerating the injury gave you a +1 on your save against the most recent Mind Blast.



I thought Injured was a -1 on TOUGHNESS saves, not ALL saves.  
If I take the downside of it being a will save (25% chance of success b/c fort/ref/will caps are unchangeable), I get the up-side too, don't I?



> Lastly, Inspiration will have worn off by the time you get your next attack- note that you had it for your last attack.




OH.. I didn't know it only lasted 1 round.


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I thought Injured was a -1 on TOUGHNESS saves, not ALL saves.
> If I take the downside of it being a will save (25% chance of success b/c fort/ref/will caps are unchangeable), I get the up-side too, don't I?




You're being hit with mental blast which is a damaging attack (lethal, in this case), and you subtract your injured conditions from your saves against all lethal damaging attacks, including this one.  So injured generally applies only to Toughness saves, except in cases like this.

See here: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=13023

Edit- you already have hit your PL caps on attack/dmg, so taking Rage 2 for the bonuses won't work.  The reason you can take Rage at all despite having hit PL caps is that we're using a house rule that since rage 1 increases damage by 2 while decreasing Str by 2, you can take it despite being at PL caps.  Further edit- I see that KG seemed to say it was fine earlier in this thread, but I'm not sure if he was thinking of it as analogous to the Kenson house rule, or if he was fine with it being more than just a straight trade-off of Dmg for Defense.

One other note: Jemal, I think you should have Super-Senses 9, not 8 (Accurate Scent costs 2 points).


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Edit- you already have hit your PL caps on attack/dmg, so taking Rage 2 for the bonuses won't work.  The reason you can take Rage at all despite having hit PL caps is that we're using a house rule that since rage 1 increases damage by 2 while decreasing Str by 2, you can take it despite being at PL caps.
> 
> One other note: Jemal, I think you should have Super-Senses 9, not 8 (Accurate Scent costs 2 points).




Well now earlier I did look over the Steve Kenson's Houserule when H4H/Hulk posted asking about the First Rank of Rage where he said that it should be cool (i.e. you are getting +2 damage from strength but -2 to your Defense).


As for senses I must have missed that D'OH

====




			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> Whoops, forgot Conditional Modifiers.  + 5 Inspiration to saves!!!!
> Actions = Delay till right after thors turn, then Charge Shark Killer.
> Attack: +8 - 2 despair + 2 charging = + 13.  damage 8. Defense = 12.(-2 charging - 2 despair).
> BTW, Is there anyway to get rid of the despair short of spending a Hero Point?




Nope, the only way to shake it off is to either...
1.) spend a Hero Point
2.) Stun or knock the person out who is using it against you


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

I updated part of Round 2 in IC... big notes are that Hyde is not stunned, nor is he prone BUT Screaming Banshee is stunned and her Despair dropped.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Edit- you already have hit your PL caps on attack/dmg, so taking Rage 2 for the bonuses won't work.  The reason you can take Rage at all despite having hit PL caps is that we're using a house rule that since rage 1 increases damage by 2 while decreasing Str by 2, you can take it despite being at PL caps.  Further edit- I see that KG seemed to say it was fine earlier in this thread, but I'm not sure if he was thinking of it as analogous to the Kenson house rule, or if he was fine with it being more than just a straight trade-off of Dmg for Defense.
> 
> One other note: Jemal, I think you should have Super-Senses 9, not 8 (Accurate Scent costs 2 points).




HERE is the post by Kenson about the 1st Rank of Rage which I am allowing to go over PL limit... so Wolverine can still maintain 1 rank of it and up his Super-Senses


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 6, 2007)

Hey, Black Widow isn't on that updated map. I assume she's still next to that desk though...


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hey, Black Widow isn't on that updated map. I assume she's still next to that desk though...




Ops sorry, must have errased her? NOTE that now Black Widow is not affected by Despair, and while Green Goblyn is in melee with Scarlet Witch, you do have Precise Shot so all is good


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 6, 2007)

Hah! Good point. Add 2 to her attack then, for a total of 30, I believe...


----------



## the_myth (Aug 6, 2007)

Ugh.  I'm burning through Hero Points just to avoid damage.


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Karl- Hyde is staggered, but you had him take two move actions.  So he should still be over by where he landed.  Also, I would probably not have power attacked for 5 if I knew Hyde would shake off the stun, but if anything this was my fault for not specifying that I'd do things differently if Hyde wasn't stunned.  Plus, with despair having worn off I'm pretty sure that my reroll will still hit Hyde, so I can't complain too much.

Myth- you still had +5 to saves from Inspire, so shouldn't that have brought your bonus to +13 on the save?  If so, the first save would have only been a stun + wound, and the reroll (assuming you'd still want to do it, which you probably would have) would have passed pretty easily.


----------



## the_myth (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Myth- you still had +5 to saves from Inspire, so shouldn't that have brought your bonus to +13 on the save?  If so, the first save would have only been a stun + wound, and the reroll (assuming you'd still want to do it, which you probably would have) would have passed pretty easily.





Yep, forgot to check my notes while posting!  Already edited!  ;-)  Thanks for the heads-up though.

Witchy's probably gonna get hit by Rystare again, so expect her to get beat down soon!


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Karl- this is up to you, but can Ronin's shuriken and katana deal nonlethal damage normally (i.e., with no penalties to anything)?  Devices and powers are generally accorded more freedom (or if they aren't, ala Wolverine's claws, that's a drawback), but equipment often has to deal with more realism.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl- this is up to you, but can Ronin's shuriken and katana deal nonlethal damage normally (i.e., with no penalties to anything)?  Devices and powers are generally accorded more freedom (or if they aren't, ala Wolverine's claws, that's a drawback), but equipment often has to deal with more realism.




NORMALLY they would be able to (in base M&M 2nd ed), and it is somewhat up to him. IF you have not noticed it is a bit more deadly, as I generally assume that (especially for equipment), Guns and Swords do Lethal damage. But I never said NO to this, but I would ask that Ronin has to accounce it is Bruise damage, otherwise it is lethal

Oh and yes Hyde did not get to move very far and from my updated post you will see he has moved farther away!! (I need to update the Map also)


----------



## Elric (Aug 6, 2007)

Hyde missed that save by 13, not 8.  He's out   

Also, Wolverine's claws only do full power lethal damage.  So that attack will disable Shark King as well

Edit- also, I'm not sure if Justice is using Improved Pin correctly.  From what I remember, Improved Pin doesn't help on the initial roll of the grapple- it only helps after you've started the grapple and they're trying to escape either the grapple itself or a pin.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Hyde missed that save by 13, not 8.  He's out
> 
> Also, Wolverine's claws only do full power lethal damage.  So that attack will disable Shark King as well.




Ack, you are keeping me sharp... I just figgin look at the rule and read it wrong 

Yes is Unconious, one disabled


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Edit- also, I'm not sure if Justice is using Improved Pin correctly.  From what I remember, Improved Pin doesn't help on the initial roll of the grapple- it only helps after you've started the grapple and they're trying to escape either the grapple itself or a pin.



That makes sense.  I hadn't read it that way originally, but I can see it.  I haven't been adding it to my roll, just mentioning it to Karl for his.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 7, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> That makes sense.  I hadn't read it that way originally, but I can see it.  I haven't been adding it to my roll, just mentioning it to Karl for his.




Right and I have been taking it off Gargoyle's initial Grapple test but not later ones BUT I think I am doing it backwards there  but he rolled pretty high sooooo


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 7, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl- this is up to you, but can Ronin's shuriken and katana deal nonlethal damage normally (i.e., with no penalties to anything)?  Devices and powers are generally accorded more freedom (or if they aren't, ala Wolverine's claws, that's a drawback), but equipment often has to deal with more realism.




I would say that his Shuriken and his Nunchaku deal Non-Lethal normally, but his Katana will deal Lethal damage unless he decides to hit someone with the flat of the blade or the hilt.

Also, is Banshee still in the air or is she on the ground?


----------



## Jemal (Aug 7, 2007)

OK, fast ball special : 
Some form of Combined Attack?  Thrower rolls ranged attack roll, Wolverine rolls melee attack roll. If both hit, +2 damage, IN addition to a +2 hit/-2 defense for Wolverine b/c he's effectively charging.  Agressive stance for a +2 atk/-4 defense, and you have this:
Fastball special: Requires a standard action from Thrower and a full-round action from Wolverine.

Thrower makes an attack roll at +2.  
MISS: wolverine makes an Acrobatics check vs falling damage.  
HIT: Wolverine makes an attack roll at +4 atk.  HIt = + 2 damage(Penetrating b/c of claws).  Miss = damage to wolverine and victim as per Throwers Strength. (Wolverine still got thrown into them, he just didn't hit with his claws).

Wolverine @ end of round is -6 defense, possibly prone (Depending on initial throw)

How's that sound?  (I'd like to come up with something relatively good/cool so I can get Thor to chuck me at somebody this round).


----------



## Elric (Aug 7, 2007)

Jemal, fastball special is handled simply by Teamwork giving a plus to attack to Wolverine while the person using Teamwork also throws him.  However, it seems like in this case the velocity means Teamwork ought to add to damage (if Karl is willing to do this), and making this a charge attack for Wolverine makes sense, so +2 attack, -2 def for him as well.  Problem is that for this to be worthwhile having two ranks of Teamwork or so would be nice and only Capt has those- but he can't throw Wolverine any great distance.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 7, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> I would say that his Shuriken and his Nunchaku deal Non-Lethal normally, but his Katana will deal Lethal damage unless he decides to hit someone with the flat of the blade or the hilt.
> 
> Also, is Banshee still in the air or is she on the ground?




She fell to the ground (about 10ft so not much)


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 7, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Jemal, fastball special is handled simply by Teamwork giving a plus to attack to Wolverine while the person using Teamwork also throws him.  However, it seems like in this case the velocity means Teamwork ought to add to damage (if Karl is willing to do this), and making this a charge attack for Wolverine makes sense, so +2 attack, -2 def for him as well.  Problem is that for this to be worthwhile having two ranks of Teamwork or so would be nice and only Capt has those- but he can't throw Wolverine any great distance.




Well the only problem with velocity adding damage is that in M&M2nd ed (pg 158), damage from "Slam" attacks is pretty low unless you are moving quite some distance... so Wolverine would have to get thrown pretty darn far for it to matter 

Otherwise I think Teamwork, with a Charge like attack would work pretty darn well and be pretty darn cool...


----------



## the_myth (Aug 7, 2007)

oh crud.

I just realized I designed The Scarlet Witch's Probability Control alternate powers wrong.  I used the defaults from Ultimate Powers, but that build did not take into account the extras of Jinx and Perception Range.  This power is such a point-hog.

The new power builds are based on 49 points.

Deflect [base 3 all attacks + 2 Reaction + 1 Reflection = 6 pts/rank]
8 ranks + Ricochet power feat

Trip [base 1 + 1 free action + 1 Perception + 1 Burst Area + 0 DEX check +1 selective attack= 5 pts/rank] 9 ranks + Subtle [2 pts wasted]

Confuse [base 1 + 1 free action + 1 Perception + 1 Burst Area + 1 selective attack= 5 pts/rank]
9 ranks + Incurable + Reversible + Subtle

I think this fixes everything.  bleh.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 7, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> oh crud.
> 
> I just realized I designed The Scarlet Witch's Probability alternate powers wrong.  I used the defaults from Ultimate Powers, but that build did not take into account the extras of Jinx and Perception Range.  This power is such a point-hog.
> 
> ...





Yea, Probability Alternate costs HUGE points for... not much it seems to me...  ok did you update her in the RG?


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 7, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Justice watches in horror as the Gargoyle King's hand reaches for him.  He is unable to move out of the way, and he feels himself succumb to the frenchman's petrification power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











*OOC:*




No you can't use a Hero Point to re-roll a Toughness Save and then use another one for a Toughness save that round. You can spend as MANY Hero Points in a round as you want, but you have to use them for different things. You have not had to make another Fortitude check this round so you could spend one...

BUT double D'OH, because an 11 is the worst one you can get in the re-roll as it give you no bonus 

Don't worry it's not permanent... normally  and this fight is just about over... maybe


----------



## Elric (Aug 7, 2007)

h4h- nice work roleplaying Hulk- he cracks me up- and good work taking out Goliath as well.  One point: I think your defense is actually 4 (15- 5 AAA - 2 Rage - 4 Aggressive Stance).

Also, I think that spending hero points once a round on each effect is by default not once a combat round but rather once per personal round (from the time your initiative count rolls around until the next).  See here: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=16684&highlight=

So, Myth, going by this ruling you could have used reroll again, instead of just acquiring Second Chance.  As you pretty obviously would have done that, and you rolled a 10, you'd retroactively take no damage.  KG will have to chip in here.

Of course, with or without this exact ruling (if it's a physical round then characters at the end of the round benefit) not getting to reroll saves a lot of the time often makes rerolling an attack roll a bad idea.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 7, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Also, I think that spending hero points once a round on each effect is by default not once a combat round but rather once per personal round (from the time your initiative count rolls around until the next).  See here: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=16684&highlight=
> 
> Of course, with or without this exact ruling (if it's a physical round then characters at the end of the round benefit) not getting to reroll saves a lot of the time often makes rerolling an attack roll a bad idea.




Hmmm, seems reasonable to me... and I personally don't mind if you spend Hero Points on multiple things or even saves, just not the "same" one over and over 

Also at the end of the combat I will be awarding some additional HP, just so's you all know


----------



## the_myth (Aug 7, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Yea, Probability Alternate costs HUGE points for... not much it seems to me...  ok did you update her in the RG?




Oh dear lord, yes.  The Jinx hasn't worked once!  AND it gives a save to avoid!

Bad, bad power.  Not worth the points at low ranks.

Yes, I updated everything in the Rogue's Gallery.

I hate making stupid mistakes like this, but I do recall having many design flaws I was trying to balance.


----------



## Elric (Aug 7, 2007)

Myth- at power levels 8-12, Probability Control would be decent at 2 pp/rank.  It's really bad at 4 pp/rank.  Jinx is pretty terrible in general.

Did you see my note that you can still use reroll because the last time you used it was before your last actin?  So you shouldn't take any damage.


----------



## the_myth (Aug 7, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Myth- at power levels 8-12, Probability Control would be decent at 2 pp/rank.  It's really bad at 4 pp/rank.  Jinx is pretty terrible in general.
> 
> Did you see my note that you can still use reroll because the last time you used it was before your last actin?  So you shouldn't take any damage.




Yes, totally agree.  But the power is capped at the PL limit of the game, so I could only take 8 ranks.  That was a LOT of points for not much to do with it [other than a plethora of alternate powers...which doesn't seem so bad now].

I am now convinced Jinx is next to worthless as written.  Probably best re-designed as a Power Feat of some kind.  Or at least make it No Save by default!

And thanks on the Hero Point use rules knowledge.  I have edited my entry after Karl's agreement.  ;-)


----------



## Elric (Aug 7, 2007)

Quick note: Redclaw, you can use Extra Effort to get another save against being turned to stone (as it is a lasting effect), but your chances of success still aren't great (although they would be quite good on a reroll) if you want to.  Not sure you know about this option.

Myth- some comments on your character build:
Selective the feat doesn't let you avoid hitting your friends with an area attack.  You need selective attack, an extra, for that.

You can't take confuse at rank 12, as it is limited by the PL of the game, 8, due to being area perception.  Trip is also limited by your PL, but since this is a weaker effect Karl may be more generous about letting you break PL limits.

Having your forcefield go off when you go to use any of those magic powers is a problem in combat.  You should probably put Force Field in its own slot for this reason.

Probability Control is pretty useless, as you've discovered.  But having a ton of PPs to spend on the APs is quite good- exceedingly good in the case of something like a Free Action Selective Area, Area- Burst Perception Range Confuse 8 attack (48 pp at rank, by my calculation, but worth every pp- you can use an attack like this on pretty much every enemy every round in addition to your other actions).  

You might want to tone these down a little (e.g., spend more pp elsewhere to get as constant abilities some of the abilities you have as APs and decrease the number of pp spent on this array)


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 7, 2007)

Yea, one thing to remember also is that as I gave you more "points" for PL8, part of the reasoning was to spread them out on stuff people normally would not take... not that Probability Control was on my mind at the time


----------



## the_myth (Aug 7, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Myth- some comments on your character build:
> Selective the feat doesn't let you avoid hitting your friends with an area attack.  You need selective attack, an extra, for that.




<snip>


Ah...I knew something looked wrong...ugh.




			
				Elric said:
			
		

> Probability Control is pretty useless, as you've discovered.  But having a ton of PPs to spend on the APs is quite good- exceedingly good in the case of something like a Free Action Selective Area, Area- Burst Perception Range Confuse 8 attack (48 pp at rank, by my calculation, but worth every pp- you can use an attack like this on pretty much every enemy every round in addition to your other actions).
> 
> You might want to tone these down a little (e.g., spend more pp elsewhere to get as constant abilities some of the abilities you have as APs and decrease the number of pp spent on this array)




Well, it's not exactly fair to redesign a character in the middle of a game, so I'll just be fixing problems...

And isn't the rule that once you activate a power, you can't de-activate it until the following round?  Thus, each time I tried a Jinx that tied up the Probability Control plus its alternates.

Also, you mentioned before about there being a limit of PL 8 on Confuse because of the cam,pain PL....I can't find that rule anywhere...

So, I re-fixed things....the powers are now PL 9 [with some Power Feats like Subtle], which makes more sense.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 8, 2007)

Something to think about when this battle is over (not yet, just want you thinking now), I want you to let me know whom do you think should get extra Hero Points and Why based on the rules M&M2nd ed pages 122-124.

Things like Setbacks, Heroism, Roleplaying, Stunts, etc. 

I have ideas BUT I am the first to admit that I miss them often. Also I like player impute on this as it can be very subjective. If you want to use Sblock you can, and if someone does please don't read them if you can resist


----------



## Elric (Aug 8, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> <snip>
> And isn't the rule that once you activate a power, you can't de-activate it until the following round?  Thus, each time I tried a Jinx that tied up the Probability Control plus its alternates.
> 
> Also, you mentioned before about there being a limit of PL 8 on Confuse because of the cam,pain PL....I can't find that rule anywhere...




Confuse causes a Will save.  As it doesn't require an attack roll, the tradeoff rules don't apply.  So it's limited to your PL like all save DC modifiers are (can't force a save DC with a modifier above PL).

You can only switch an array's setting to a different alternate power from the power it's currently on once a round.  That may be the rule you're thinking of.  Note that when your attacks are free actions, if you started with say, Trip as your AP setting, use Trip, switch to confuse, use confuse, then attack normally and take a move action would be a perfectly legal round.


----------



## Jemal (Aug 8, 2007)

OK, I'm gonna edit Wolvie's sheet after this fight's over.. Had a couple changes in mind: 
Drop 1 rank Rage to Pay proper cost for Accurate Scent.
AND, to show his heavy, adamantine bones, I've decided to do the following: 
Drop 4 str, 1 Protection (+5 pts) to ADD Density Rank 2, with Permanent flaw(-4 pts).
Density 2 gives +4 str, +1 Impervious Protection, and X1.5 Mass.  Since Wolverine's mass is normally 200 LBS, but with the adamantine, it's 300, I figured this is a good way to describe it.  It makes no difference stat-wise, though it DOES give me 1 extra pp, which I would like to use as follows: 
Teamwork [Affects others(+1), Limited: ONLY affects others aiding Wolverine, who can lift him (300 pounds) as a Medium or lighter load(-2)] 2 ranks. (1pp/2 ranks)

How's all that sound?


----------



## Elric (Aug 8, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> OK, I'm gonna edit Wolvie's sheet after this fight's over.. Had a couple changes in mind:
> Drop 1 rank Rage to Pay proper cost for Accurate Scent




KG had this slightly wrong.  As you've taken Uncontrolled on rage, it only cost 1 pp per 2 ranks, so going down to rage 1 only saves you half a pp.  What you could do is keep Rage 2 but make the second rank increase duration, and then find 1 pp elsewhere.

Also, instead of that constuction how about inventing a feat, assuming it will fly with Karl: Fastball Special: When Wolverne is thrown by a character with Str 30+ for lifting as part of a teamwork action, he gets +2 to damage with his next attack (this can break PL limits).

Edit- I'd like to make a few minor changes to Cap when I write more of a backstory, but that won't be for a week and a half.


----------



## Jemal (Aug 8, 2007)

IF Karl's ok with it, I think that 'feat' you propose would work perfectly.
Or, instead of a feat, make it a featURE (same dif, really).
Fastball Special: When Wolverine is thrown by a character with Str 28+ (for lifting purposes) as part of a teamwork/Aid Another action, he makes a charge attack (using the Team-mates Throwing distance in place of his normal charging distance) with a +2 to damage on the attack roll (this can break PL limits).
 * I changed the STR requirement to 28.  18 is what's required to 'throw' 300 pounds, and for every 5 higher, you up the distance.  So 28 can throw me 25'.  33 would be 50, etc.
Using this, the only two who can "effectively" throw me are: THOR (250') and Hulk (a whopping 2,500')

As to the Rage thing.. I thought Uncontrolled was a Drawback that you assigned to a trait, giving you 1pp back, not a power flaw.


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## Karl Green (Aug 8, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> IF Karl's ok with it, I think that 'feat' you propose would work perfectly.
> Or, instead of a feat, make it a featURE (same dif, really).
> Fastball Special: When Wolverine is thrown by a character with Str 28+ (for lifting purposes) as part of a teamwork/Aid Another action, he makes a charge attack (using the Team-mates Throwing distance in place of his normal charging distance) with a +2 to damage on the attack roll (this can break PL limits).
> * I changed the STR requirement to 28.  18 is what's required to 'throw' 300 pounds, and for every 5 higher, you up the distance.  So 28 can throw me 25'.  33 would be 50, etc.
> ...




Hmm, let me think about that Fastball special but it does not sound to bad. 

I am pretty sure the way you purchased your Rage was with a Power Flaw, not as a Drawback, but let me look at the rules and make sure. Don't stress about it until the fight is over...

NOTE to all, if you want to twick your characters after this Battle, I am totally ok with minor changes, power points shifts, etc to better get the character you want. PLEASE let me know you are doing it here and what you are changing so I can look them over...


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## Jemal (Aug 8, 2007)

*L* Alternately, the thrower could just use me as a Ranged, Thrown weapon weighing 300 Pounds.  I'd deal 10 damage on hitting (Wolvie has 10 toughness), and probably take some myself, and then I'd spend a move action to stand (or an acrobatics check), and attack on my turn.
doesn't require any special rules/powers/feats, but isn't quite as cool.


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## Elric (Aug 8, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Fastball Special: When Wolverine is thrown by a character with Str 28+ (for lifting purposes) as part of a teamwork/Aid Another action, he makes a charge attack (using the Team-mates Throwing distance in place of his normal charging distance) with a +2 to damage on the attack roll (this can break PL limits).
> * I changed the STR requirement to 28.  18 is what's required to 'throw' 300 pounds, and for every 5 higher, you up the distance.  So 28 can throw me 25'.  33 would be 50, etc.
> Using this, the only two who can "effectively" throw me are: THOR (250') and Hulk (a whopping 2,500')




That feature looks perfect, concept wise.  Don't forget that the svelte Black Widow can throw you 25 feet as well


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## Karl Green (Aug 8, 2007)

OK just waiting for the Hulk and Scarlet Witch and we will finish this round


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## the_myth (Aug 8, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> OK just waiting for the Hulk and Scarlet Witch and we will finish this round





Justice is still stoned right?  hehe


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## Karl Green (Aug 8, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> Justice is still stoned right?  hehe




Afraid so  for even though the Gargoyle is 'stunned' his power is NOT sustained!!! YIKES for Justice  but we will see HONEST true believers!!


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## the_myth (Aug 8, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Confuse causes a Will save.  As it doesn't require an attack roll, the tradeoff rules don't apply.  So it's limited to your PL like all save DC modifiers are (can't force a save DC with a modifier above PL).




Ah, yes.  Right there it is in the chart I was staring at!  argh!!



			
				Elric said:
			
		

> You can only switch an array's setting to a different alternate power from the power it's currently on once a round.  That may be the rule you're thinking of.  Note that when your attacks are free actions, if you started with say, Trip as your AP setting, use Trip, switch to confuse, use confuse, then attack normally and take a move action would be a perfectly legal round.




So, then, using Deflect then switching to Trip, then switching back to Deflect would work too?
[Reaction to Deflect-->free action to switch-->free action to Trip-->free action to switch -->Reaction to Deflect]


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## Elric (Aug 8, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> So, then, using Deflect then switching to Trip, then switching back to Deflect would work too?
> [Reaction to Deflect-->free action to switch-->free action to Trip-->free action to switch -->Reaction to Deflect]




If you end your previous turn with Deflect active, then you can use Deflect on attacks against you.  Then on your next turn, you can only switch the setting once, so if you use trip you'll be vulnerable for a round (without access to your deflect power, as the array must stay on trip).  

In general, you can do this to get a great defensive power (something besides your normal defense/toughness abilities) active every other round while still using your offensive powers normally- but imho it's pretty much an abuse of the AP system.


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## Elric (Aug 8, 2007)

h4h- I think you include your attack focus: melee on your recent attack roll.  It should still hit regardless.  Also, it seems like Karl had you knocking Goliath back and away from you (although reading your "smash him" post it seemed like you would have wanted to skip knockback if there's an option to do so- not sure if there is offhand).  

As it works out, though, you probably can't move, pick Goliath up and throw him all in the same round.  Karl might waive this in light of the fact you probably intended for Goliath to end up at your feet- his call.


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## hero4hire (Aug 8, 2007)

BTW sorry you had to wait on me.

I probably will almost never be on Tuesdays due to RL commitments.


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## Karl Green (Aug 9, 2007)

So ok, don’t post in the IC for a second, for when next I post it will be SIX day in the past, and we and the readers will see how the Avengers got into this situation and what nefarious plot will unfold. 

Also I want to do up a Hero Point for everyone and any additional awards people might think are deserved…


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## Karl Green (Aug 9, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> h4h- I think you include your attack focus: melee on your recent attack roll.  It should still hit regardless.  Also, it seems like Karl had you knocking Goliath back and away from you (although reading your "smash him" post it seemed like you would have wanted to skip knockback if there's an option to do so- not sure if there is offhand).
> 
> As it works out, though, you probably can't move, pick Goliath up and throw him all in the same round.  Karl might waive this in light of the fact you probably intended for Goliath to end up at your feet- his call.




Its all good  I don't mind bending a bit to have a cool scene happen


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## Karl Green (Aug 9, 2007)

OK by my count for Hero Points

Black Widow – 3pts 
Captain Britania – 4pts
The Hulk – 3pts
Justices – 6pts 
Ronin – 6pts 
Scarlet Witch – 3pts
Thor – 5pts
Wolverine – 4pts 


I am not 100% on a couple as I have to go back and re-read all my posts again. I had it but deleted my friggin word doc by mistake… another good reason for you all to help me out and post them in the Title with your characters name AND conditions 

OK again, if you would like to make the case for additional HP awards for yourself or someone else, please post them here with reasons, etc.

I thought everyone had good Role-playing posts so I already gave you all one for that, if you think someone did especially well, then maybe


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## Shayuri (Aug 9, 2007)

Is that how many we spent, or how many we're receiving at the end of the conflict?


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## Redclaw (Aug 9, 2007)

[sblock=ooc]I would put one up for Captain Britannia for his focus on leading the team, and his quick shift over to attack the Gargoyle King after Justice got stoned.    [/sblock]


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 9, 2007)

I am going to do some editing to Ronin, ditching his Stunning Attack feat and replacing it with Power Attack. This ok?


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## Elric (Aug 9, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> I am going to do some editing to Ronin, ditching his Stunning Attack feat and replacing it with Power Attack. This ok?




Now that the fight is over, let me mention this: your shuriken's don't work like you were playing them.  Autofire's max additional damage is the lower of 5 or 1/2 of your attack's normal damage.  So your shurikens can only get +1 extra damage from autofire.  What I'd suggest instead is taking Shurikens that are Blast 3 (Extra: Autofire 2- max +3 extra dmg).  This costs 12 ep and does 3 damage, plus one damage extra for every 2 you hit by to a max of 6 dmg.  So this has a damage range of 3-6 (slightly better than right now) and a range inc of 30 feet just like your current shurikens.

Also, Karl, Capt's Inspire doesn't work on the entire party.  It only works on Cha bonus (5 in my case) # of people.  However, I'm not going to be able to justify higher base Cha than what I have now and if we add demongg I'd like to actually be able to inspire everyone, not just 5/8 others.  Would you allow ranks in Enhanced Cha (limited to inspire -2).  2pp here would let me affect 8 people with inspire, which would be everyone if demongg joined.


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## Karl Green (Aug 9, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Is that how many we spent, or how many we're receiving at the end of the conflict?




Should be how many you have at the end of the conflict...


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## Karl Green (Aug 9, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Now that the fight is over, let me mention this: your shuriken's don't work like you were playing them.  Autofire's max additional damage is the lower of 5 or 1/2 of your attack's normal damage.  So your shurikens can only get +1 extra damage from autofire.  What I'd suggest instead is taking Shurikens that are Blast 3 (Extra: Autofire 2- max +3 extra dmg).  This costs 12 ep and does 3 damage, plus one damage extra for every 2 you hit by to a max of 6 dmg.  So this has a damage range of 3-6 (slightly better than right now) and a range inc of 30 feet just like your current shurikens.




Darn, I just re-read Autofire and you are correct... grr... I totally missed that, as has the group I have been playing with for over a year now, all of us doing it the wrong way 

Oh well, live and learn 



			
				Elric said:
			
		

> Also, Karl, Capt's Inspire doesn't work on the entire party.  It only works on Cha bonus (5 in my case) # of people.  However, I'm not going to be able to justify higher base Cha than what I have now and if we add demongg I'd like to actually be able to inspire everyone, not just 5/8 others.  Would you allow ranks in Enhanced Cha (limited to inspire -2).  2pp here would let me affect 8 people with inspire, which would be everyone if demongg joined.




Yes that would be fine with me... and yep you catch me again with these minor little rules I I keep missing 

As for Demongg, I have not heard from him for almost a week now on the boards so I am not sure if he is still interested... we will see


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## Redclaw (Aug 9, 2007)

I think I was at 3 at the end of the conflict, and then it looks like I got 4 more in wrap-up, so I think I'm at 7.


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## Elric (Aug 9, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> I think I was at 3 at the end of the conflict, and then it looks like I got 4 more in wrap-up, so I think I'm at 7.




I think Karl is posting the total he thinks we have after he awards everyone 2 HP.  You should have 4 HP total not counting those 2 HP because I don't think you could have rerolled on the turn when Gargoyle attacked you, since you'd already rerolled the grapple on your action.

While I'm at it, were you rolling to hit rolls with your Telekinesis power?  If you weren't rolling attack rolls that would indicate you had bought it at range: perception, but I seem to recall that this wasn't the case (if you buy TK with range: perception then your bonus on the check is 2X the rank of the power- see here http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=16368)


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## Karl Green (Aug 9, 2007)

OK I hope I did not throw people to much with the 'Six days in the past'... but you can certainly post how any questions and comments you have for Inspector Kastle...


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## Redclaw (Aug 9, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> While I'm at it, were you rolling to hit rolls with your Telekinesis power?  If you weren't rolling attack rolls that would indicate you had bought it at range: perception, but I seem to recall that this wasn't the case (if you buy TK with range: perception then your bonus on the check is 2X the rank of the power- see here http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=16368)



Yikes.  That's a big one to miss.  My bad, and I will certainly make those rolls in the future.  Concept-wise I just figured he grabbed what he wanted to and had to roll to hold on.  I certainly didn't take it at perception, so attack rolls it is.


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## Karl Green (Aug 9, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Yikes.  That's a big one to miss.  My bad, and I will certainly make those rolls in the future.  Concept-wise I just figured he grabbed what he wanted to and had to roll to hold on.  I certainly didn't take it at perception, so attack rolls it is.




That's cool as I missed it to 

Anyway... any other thoughts on HP awards? I will give XP at the end of the story


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## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> I am going to do some editing to Ronin, ditching his Stunning Attack feat and replacing it with Power Attack. This ok?




Yes that is fine BUT Stunning Attack can be pretty cool... just so's you know  (I use it a lot in my face-to-face game, especailly against mooks, and psi-dude with High Protection and LOW fortitude)


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## Elric (Aug 10, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Yikes.  That's a big one to miss.  My bad, and I will certainly make those rolls in the future.  Concept-wise I just figured he grabbed what he wanted to and had to roll to hold on.  I certainly didn't take it at perception, so attack rolls it is.




You were also making a mistake that worked against you: you were short-changing yourself on your Telekinesis grapple bonus.  Since it's used at range, you should add your ranged attack bonus instead of your melee attack bonus (see the link to ATT in my above post).  So with +8 ranged attack you'll get 8+whatever rank in the power you're using as a grapple bonus (not just +4, your melee attack bonus, + power rank).


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## Elric (Aug 10, 2007)

Here are some proposed changes to Capt.  One feature I've decided from his background: he grew up disliking guns because they reminded him of his physical weakness.  Also, as he got older he could see the effect his father, a famed hunter, had on destroying the African wilderness- he had no romanticized notion of hunting.  So he always refused to have his father teach him to shoot a gun.

-2 base attack (+4 pp)
Drop Immunity: Disease (+1 pp)
Drop 5 ranks in Bluff, 2 ranks in Intimidate, 1 in Handle Animal (+2 pp)
Drop Accurate Attack (+1 pp)

+2 Attack Focus: melee (-2 pp)
6 ranks in Enhanced Cha (limited to Inspire) (-2 pp)
Add 2 ranks to Know: Tactics, 4 ranks of Know: Current Events, 2 ranks to Survival (-2 pp)
Add 1 rank to Teamwork (-1 pp)
Add Assessment (-1 pp)


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## Redclaw (Aug 10, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> You were also making a mistake that worked against you: you were short-changing yourself on your Telekinesis grapple bonus.  Since it's used at range, you should add your ranged attack bonus instead of your melee attack bonus (see the link to ATT in my above post).  So with +8 ranged attack you'll get 8+whatever rank in the power you're using as a grapple bonus (not just +4, your melee attack bonus, + power rank).



  Sweet.  One of these days I'll figure this system out.  I'm just too used to D&D.   
Thanks again.  And please, anyone, if you notice me doing similar things, let me know.  I promise not to take it personally.


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## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> I think I was at 3 at the end of the conflict, and then it looks like I got 4 more in wrap-up, so I think I'm at 7.




I am pretty sure you are at 6 as I did allow you to re-roll your Fort save, it is just you failed that one to


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## Jemal (Aug 10, 2007)

Wolverine Proposed Changes: 
SUBTRACT: 
(2pp)Equipment rank (2)*Knives*
(2pp)Throwing Mastery (2).  *These makes sense for modern day wolverine, as he's been a member of several military's but not really for 19th century savage wolverine. Also, I took them for a 'ranged' attack, but then realized that I can charge farther than I can throw knives...*
(4pp) 4 Strength
(1pp) Protection 1
(5pp) Immunity: Fatigue effects
GAIN: 14 pp

ADD:
(1pp): Accurate(scent) *This is what I'm supposed to be paying*
(1pp): FEATURE: Fastball Special - When Wolverine is thrown by a character with Str 28+ (for lifting purposes) as part of a teamwork/Aid Another action, he makes a charge attack (using the Team-mates Throwing distance in place of his normal charging distance) with a +2 to damage on the attack roll (this can break PL limits).
(5pp) Density rank 2, Permanent (+4 str, +1 Protection). *Heavy Adamantine Bones*, (-1: Not Impervious).  Weight: 300 Lbs
(4pp) +2 Fort/Will.
Spend: 7pp 

So I have 3pp left to decide on...  I also decided to drop the "immunity to fatigue effects" b/c it shouldn't be an immunity.  He _can_ get Tired, it just takes him a really long time.. I don't know how to describe that in game terms, though..  He's allready got a really high Con, but that's not enough... is there anything that's the M&M equivalent of D&D's "Endurance" feat?


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## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Wolverine Proposed Changes:
> 
> So I have 3pp left to decide on...  I also decided to drop the "immunity to fatigue effects" b/c it shouldn't be an immunity.  He _can_ get Tired, it just takes him a really long time.. I don't know how to describe that in game terms, though..  He's allready got a really high Con, but that's not enough... is there anything that's the M&M equivalent of D&D's "Endurance" feat?




Yep, it be called *Endurance* ( heheh sorry), and it gives you +4 on checks requiring endurance and stamia. It can be taken multiple times also

Otherwise, the changes looks resonable


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## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Here are some proposed changes to Capt.  One feature I've decided from his background: he grew up disliking guns because they reminded him of his physical weakness.  Also, as he got older he could see the effect his father, a famed hunter, had on destroying the African wilderness- he had no romanticized notion of hunting.  So he always refused to have his father teach him to shoot a gun.
> 
> -2 base attack (+4 pp)
> Drop Immunity: Disease (+1 pp)
> ...




That sound resonable also... but you don't want to throw the shield or anything?


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## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Wolverine grins at the man before him (Who, in his assessment, would be fairly _Punish_ing in a fight.)




Hehehe you catch that huh? 

I will add there have been some already and more to come


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## Jemal (Aug 10, 2007)

I don't know what you're talking about *innocent whistle*  
Though why do I have a feeling that poor 'Frank Kastle, Inspector'is going to loose his family's b/c of the guys we're about to piss off.. Wonder if they made T-shirts with skulls on them in the late 19th century.


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## Elric (Aug 10, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> That sound resonable also... but you don't want to throw the shield or anything?




Hmm...I was going to change this from the real Capt- although I was considering have him learn to throw the shield at some point in the future...  Scene in his background: Black Panther "You know, your shield would make a great thrown weapon."  Capt: "I'm not throwing my frieking shield!  It's a shield, not a bow and arrows."

The only problem with this is that we have so many primarily melee characters (Ronin, Wolverine, Hulk) that I feel like I'm going to be a little too much like everyone else.  Also, he's pretty experienced as a hero already- why would he learn to throw the shield only now?

I might want to take Improved Defense 2 on the shield (I already have Improved Defense 1).  I'll have to come up with 1 pp to drop.  I'm considering switching out low-light vision for Extended Hearing, or possibly just adding Extended Hearing.  Depending on how I do his background, he may obtain the powers side of his abilities from a source that isn't entirely Wakanda- in which case Low Light vision won't make as much sense.

Oh, while I'm at it- Masterful Plan + the Masterful Tactics option might be a litle _too _ good.  While I certainly won't mind having it this fight after having it used against us last fight, having bonuses like +10-+17 to rolling on Master Plan as opposed to +1 to +5 is a huge difference (and means that +3 to attacks/checks results will be pretty common).  But it does represent master tacticians having a big influence on a battle.


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## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Hmm...I was going to change this from the real Capt- although I was considering have him learn to throw the shield at some point in the future...  Scene in his background: Black Panther "You know, your shield would make a great thrown weapon."  Capt: "I'm not throwing my frieking shield!  It's a shield, not a bow and arrows."




hehe, I can almost see that


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## Elric (Aug 10, 2007)

Here's a very similar proposed set of changes, but this one lets Capt throw his shield.  

One rules dodge: Karl, can I have the thrown shield have a different tradeoff (+2 attack, -2 damage) from Capt in melee (no tradeoff)?  I'll generally use defensive attack when throwing the shield to make up the defense penalty from not having the shield and it makes sense that the thrown shield couldn't hit as hard as Capt himself.

Edit- some very slight alterations.

Drop 5 ranks in Bluff, 2 ranks in Intimidate, 1 rank in Handle Animal, Add 2 ranks to Know: Tactics, 4 ranks of Know: Current Events, 2 ranks to Survival (even )

Drop Immunity: Disease (+1 pp)
Drop Accurate Attack (+1 pp)
Drop Low Light Vision (+1 pp)
Drop Base Defense two ranks (+4 pp)

Add Extended Hearing (-1 pp)
Add Dodge Focus (-1 pp)
6 ranks in Enhanced Cha (limited to Inspire) (-2 pp)
Add 1 rank to Device (Shield) (-3 pp)
Improved Block 2, Improved Defense 2, Enhanced Dodge Focus 4, Reduce Knockback (I just invented it, this is a feature that gives -2 Knockback for 1 pp), 1 AP of everything (worth 14 pp):
AP: Blast 2 (PF: Extended Range 2, Accurate x4, Mighty x4)


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## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> One rules dodge: Karl, can I have the thrown shield have a different tradeoff (+2 attack, -2 damage) from Capt in melee (no tradeoff)?  I'll generally use defensive attack when throwing the shield to make up the defense penalty from not having the shield and it makes sense that the thrown shield couldn't hit as hard as Capt himself.




I don't think that is a role-dodge as I believe that your Trade-off can be different... so you could have an Unarmed attack of say +8, with a damage bonus of +8, and when you use a weapon (say a club for +2 dmg) then your attack max goes down. I am pretty sure I have seen this talked about over on Atomic Brain and Kenson weighing in saying that it is allowed...


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## Elric (Aug 10, 2007)

A few more questions:
1) Can I take a 1 pp feature on my shield, "reduce knockback", that gives -2 to knockback.  I feel like the knockback portion of steadfast/immovabiliy is worth about half of the pp, so this should make sense.  MDSnowman has his build of Capt with Immovable on the shield, but that doesn't always make sense to me- why does the shield protect against trip attacks?  I may end up with Enhanced Steadfast on the shield instead, though, just because it seems like Capt should be hard to trip, even if the shield isn't the source of that.

2) Can I buy Impervious 2 on my armor with 2 ep?  Impervious usually seems like a device power, but Impervious 2 only stops the weakest of blows.

3) Can I buy Indestructible on the armor with 1 ep?  My rationale for 2) and 3) is that the armor is made of vibranium, but if it isn't indestructible and is impervious I'll say that there are non-vibranium parts that can be damaged so that the suit becomes essentially worthless.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 10, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> A few more questions:
> 1) Can I take a 1 pp feature on my shield, "reduce knockback", that gives -2 to knockback.  I feel like the knockback portion of steadfast/immovabiliy is worth about half of the pp, so this should make sense.  MDSnowman has his build of Capt with Immovable on the shield, but that doesn't always make sense to me- why does the shield protect against trip attacks?  I may end up with Enhanced Steadfast on the shield instead, though, just because it seems like Capt should be hard to trip, even if the shield isn't the source of that.
> 
> 2) Can I buy Impervious 2 on my armor with 2 ep?  Impervious usually seems like a device power, but Impervious 2 only stops the weakest of blows.
> ...




1.) sounds resonable... where is Steadfast? Just wondering
2 & 3.) I don't think I want to allow Impervious and Indestructible normally with Equipment points, even though it is pretty low and a minor thing... let me think on it a bit before I say yes or no though


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 10, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Now that the fight is over, let me mention this: your shuriken's don't work like you were playing them.  Autofire's max additional damage is the lower of 5 or 1/2 of your attack's normal damage.  So your shurikens can only get +1 extra damage from autofire.  What I'd suggest instead is taking Shurikens that are Blast 3 (Extra: Autofire 2- max +3 extra dmg).  This costs 12 ep and does 3 damage, plus one damage extra for every 2 you hit by to a max of 6 dmg.  So this has a damage range of 3-6 (slightly better than right now) and a range inc of 30 feet just like your current shurikens.




Alright, read the rules wrong....crap. So guess I'll ditch some feats or something and add some more to Equipment. Up the damage on the shurikens to 3 sounds good...are you also saying put autofire on them again? This ups it to +1 damage for every 1 over defense, yeah? Also, if I read the rules correctly (I probably didn't), does it say that autofire damage _doesn't_ get capped by your damage caps? 

And Elric, why did you use a British Captain America for your character? There is a perfectly good Captain Britain already (a few, actually)


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## Redclaw (Aug 10, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> And Elric, why did you use a British Captain America for your character? There is a perfectly good Captain Britain already (a few, actually)



Probably because you don't get much more Avenger-like than Captain America.


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## Elric (Aug 10, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> 1.) sounds resonable... where is Steadfast? Just wondering




Oh, Steadfast is Immovable recast as a feat (in Mastermind's Manual).  Essentially it's the exact same except it doesn't do anything against slam attacks, and the bonus isn't lost when you move quickly (imo, for a low rank Immovable power, these are useful simplifications).



			
				Karl Green said:
			
		

> 2 & 3.) I don't think I want to allow Impervious and Indestructible normally with Equipment points, even though it is pretty low and a minor thing... let me think on it a bit before I say yes or no though




I definitely understand this.  Captain America's shield, for example, should definitely be a device, not equipment.  I wouldn't try to get Impervious 5 through equipment or indestructible equipment where the equipment was particularly powerful.  I just don't have much to spent those 3 ep on since none of the modern electronic gizmos exist in 1889 



> Up the damage on the shurikens to 3 sounds good...are you also saying put autofire on them again? This ups it to +1 damage for every 1 over defense, yeah? Also, if I read the rules correctly (I probably didn't), does it say that autofire damage doesn't get capped by your damage caps?




I was thinking the function of Autofire 2 that lets you get a higher maximum amount of damage from using autofire.  Getting +1 damage for every point over defense you hit by won't be so good when the maximum amount you can get is (3/2, probably rounded down) 1 extra point of damage.  

Autofire isn't limited by damage caps, but shurikens doing +3 base damage and +6 on a major autofire hit is quite good- if you wanted to take "super-strong shurikens" much stronger than Blast 3 (Autofire 2), you're almost certainly talking about a device, not equipment (this is Karl's call, but note that this is 1889- no rocket launchers in this setting!).


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## Elric (Aug 10, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Probably because you don't get much more Avenger-like than Captain America.




Plus Captain America is very cool (I love Acrobatic Bricks), the background that Karl posted for Captain Britania was very cool, and Captain Britain has as far as I know never been a member of the Avengers!

My turn for a question.  Necro, why does your Katana have 10-foot reach?  Is that really a katana or two Final Fantasy swords put on top of each other 
(Really, one final fantasy sword would probably do the trick for 10 foot reach, but weapons with reach tend to be at least as large as person-sized)


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 11, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Plus Captain America is very cool (I love Acrobatic Bricks), the background that Karl posted for Captain Britania was very cool, and Captain Britain has as far as I know never been a member of the Avengers!
> 
> My turn for a question.  Necro, why does your Katana have 10-foot reach?  Is that really a katana or two Final Fantasy swords put on top of each other
> (Really, one final fantasy sword would probably do the trick for 10 foot reach, but weapons with reach tend to be at least as large as person-sized)




My katana doesn't have a ten-foot reach, but can be thrown 10 feet. So no, it's not Cloud's sword   

And one of the Captain Britains was part of the Avengers. Kelsey Leigh, also known as Lionheart.


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## Karl Green (Aug 11, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Alright, read the rules wrong....crap. So guess I'll ditch some feats or something and add some more to Equipment. Up the damage on the shurikens to 3 sounds good...are you also saying put autofire on them again? This ups it to +1 damage for every 1 over defense, yeah? Also, if I read the rules correctly (I probably didn't), does it say that autofire damage _doesn't_ get capped by your damage caps?




I believe that Autofire rounds UP, so purchasing it to +3 will max out at +5, which is pretty good IMO. NOTE of course that I have been doing this wrong for a friggin YEAR in my face-to-face game  just stopped reading at the "...adds up to +5 to damage (for +10 over defense)" hehe

And not that YES, autofire does NOT get capped by your Damage Cap (hench why that 1/2 attack rank/2, round up, makes more sense to me now )


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## Elric (Aug 11, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> And one of the Captain Britains was part of the Avengers. Kelsey Leigh, also known as Lionheart.




You learn something new every day.


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## Elric (Aug 11, 2007)

Final proposed modification to Capt for now (I think ).  I dropped the idea of taking Impervious/Indestructible on the armor and took Immunity to Heat and Cold environments instead.  Then I added a medical kit because when you're a superhero you always need more bandages!  

I gave him limited immunity to disease and poison to reflect his superhuman constitution, but full immunity is clearly better suited for other chars (i.e., Wolverine & Black Widow, respectively).  I dropped Swim because after looking at three builds of Capt America only one gave him ranks in Swim and that build gave him 12 ranks in Survival- Capt Brit isn't that good of an outdoorsman!

Drop 5 ranks in Bluff, 2 ranks in Intimidate, 1 rank in Handle Animal, 4 ranks in Swim; Add 2 ranks to Know: Tactics, 4 ranks of Know: Current Events, 2 ranks to Survival (+1 pp)
Drop Immunity: Disease (+1 pp)
Drop Accurate Attack (+1 pp)
Drop Low Light Vision (+1 pp)
Drop Base Defense two ranks (+4 pp)

Add Immunity 2 [Disease and Poison- Limited, Half Effect] (-1 pp)
Add Extended Hearing (-1 pp)
Add Dodge Focus 1 (-1 pp)
6 ranks in Enhanced Cha (limited to Inspire) (-2 pp)
Add 1 rank to Device (Shield) (-3 pp)
Shield: Add Steadfast, increase ranks to Improved Block 2, Improved Defense 2, Dodge Focus 4, add one AP of everything else (worth 14 pp):
AP: Blast 2 (PF: Extended Range 2, Accurate x4, Mighty x4)

Equipment: Add Masterwork Medical Kit, Immunity to Heat and Cold environments to Armor (spends all 3 ep)


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## the_myth (Aug 11, 2007)

*Jumping on re-design bandwagon...*

ok, since a few others are tweaking their characters, I made a few alterations to the Scarlet Witch....for your approval...

Probability Control with Jinx as an Extra is a point-sink.  After designing that Nullify Field Extra Effort, I noted that the rules suggest a different power build can be an alternate power.  So, I made the following tweaks:

Probability Control -8 (32 pts. +6)
•	Basic: any one personal roll under 8 becomes an 8
•	Alternate Powers:
•	JINX (Jinx, Jinx only, Move action, Perception range, 4+1-1-2+2= 4pts./rank)- 8 ranks
•	DEFLECT (all attacks, Move action, 3+1= 4pts/rank)- 8 ranks
•	TRIP (Perception range, Burst area, Selective attack, Opposed by DEX, Move action, 1+1+1+1+0+1= 5pts./rank)- 6 ranks + Subtle + Progression:Area (60-ft. radius)
•	CONFUSE (Perception range, Burst area, Selective attack, Move action, 1+1+1+1+1=5 pts./rank)- 6 ranks + Incurable + Subtle
•	NULLIFY (attack effects, Perception Range, Move action, 2+1+1=4pts/rank)-8
•	DAMAGE (Perception range, Burst area, Selective attack, Move action, 1+2+1+1+1= 6 pts/rank)-5 +Subtle +Indirect

Probability Control is now at Campaign PL max of 8, and I was able to add 2 more alternate powers: Nullify Attacks (Basically a counter effect explained away as a manipulation of Fate) and Ranged Damage (some unfortunate accident like a ceiling caving in, a weapon backfiring, etc.). I also like how all of the Probability Control alternate powers are Move actions now.

This change freed up a lot of points, I tweaked some other powers...and added a few other things:

Luck Control (Burst area, Selective attack, 3+1+1=5pts/rank)-2 ranks (10 pts. + 4)
•	*Good Luck*: Spend HP for another -or- give HP to another (Burst, Selective attack)
•	Alternate Powers:
•	*Bad Luck*: negate HP/GM Fiat -or- force re-roll (Burst, Selective attack) 
•	*See the Unseen* Super-senses: True Sight [10 ranks]
•	*Future Sight* Linked Super-senses: Danger Sense [1 rank], Precognition [4 ranks], Uncanny Dodge: Mental, Visual, Auditory, Magical, Olfactory 5 [5 ranks]
•	*Lucky Shield* Linked: Shield [4 ranks] + Force Field [6 ranks]


Spell change: "See the Unseen" becomes "Mystic Sight"
•	*Mystic Sight* Linked Super-senses: Detect Magic (detect, ranged, extended, analyze, acute, track) [5 ranks], Aura reading [5 ranks], Low-Light Vision [1 rank]


Additions from extra points:
•	Luck 1 becomes Luck 4 (maxed at 1/2 Campaign PL level)     3 pts
•	Attack Specialization: Mystic blasts (+2 attack) - 1 rank      1 pt.
•	Mind Shield – 6 ranks                                                     6 pts.

Drawback: 	Power Loss [Mind Shield] in contact with cold iron	[-1 pt.]

This build would allow the character to do everything she already did...and a bit more.

Opinions?  Have I missed anything?


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 11, 2007)

Ok, so for Ronin:

Ditch the Nunchaku
Ditch Stunning attack (DC 16 fort save is too easy)
Ditch Improved Critical (Katana)

Add Power Attack
Add 1 Rank to Equipment

Change Shurikens to +3 Damage and Autofire (2)
Change Katana to Crit on 17-20

This actually changes nothing about the Katana, just changing where that high crit ratio comes from. The shurikens will now do +3 to +6 damage as well.


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

Um. Anyone have any ideas for better +1 extras than "poisonous?" Repeating damage after 1 minute is pretty pointless, I think. Better for NPC's, so PC's have to deal with the consequences. NPC's are typically either already out or have gotten clean away after 10 rounds of combat...so it's pretty pointless for a PC.

Ideas that are still within the character concept?

...maybe a cheap Linked power...


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

Crap...double post. Sorry!


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## hero4hire (Aug 11, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Um. Anyone have any ideas for better +1 extras than "poisonous?" Repeating damage after 1 minute is pretty pointless, I think. Better for NPC's, so PC's have to deal with the consequences. NPC's are typically either already out or have gotten clean away after 10 rounds of combat...so it's pretty pointless for a PC.
> 
> Ideas that are still within the character concept?
> 
> ...maybe a cheap Linked power...




SECONDARY EFFECT +1 MODIFIER
An instant effect with this modifier affects the target once immediately (when the effect is used) and then affects the target again on the following round, on the same initiative count as the initial attack. The target gets the normal saving throw against the secondary effect, which is treated as lasting, meaning it occurs without any effort on the part of the attacker, even if the attacker is incapacitated or switches to a different Alternate Power or Variable effect configuration.
Secondary Effects don’t stack, so if you attack a target with your Secondary Effect on the round after a successful hit, it doesn’t affect the target twice; it simply delays the second effect for a round. You can attack the target with a different effect, however.
So, for example, if you hit a target with a Secondary Effect Strike then, on the following round, hit with a Stun attack, the target suffers both the Stun and the Secondary Effect of the Strike.


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

I am intrigued by your product, sir, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Does this Secondary Effect simply repeat the power? Or is it/can it be another effect entirely?

For example, would it be a Blast twice? Or would it be a Blast, then a Stun, or Nauseate, or...whatever?

Even a blast twice would be great. Fast acting poison!


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## hero4hire (Aug 11, 2007)

same effect next round, but you cant use the same power on the target on the second round to "double up" on round 2


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

Not a big problem...we seem to have a lot of 'target-rich' situations. 

And it would basically mean if she hits once, she automatically hits the next round too. That would be very nice.

So either that, or a power I can strip down to 1pp/rank and link up...

I shall COGITATE upon the matter. Thank you very much, Hero!


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## Elric (Aug 11, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I shall COGITATE upon the matter. Thank you very much, Hero!




Secondary effect on a toughness save seems like something like Acid to me.

Secondary effect is more appropriate on your character's Fort save Stun power to represent fast-acting poison than on your Blast, imho.  But then you'd have a lot of extra pp to spend on Blast and nothing at the moment to spend them on.


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

Not to mention that the Stun power is innately less effective, having a save DC below PL limits.


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## hero4hire (Aug 11, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Secondary effect on a toughness save seems like something like Acid to me.
> 
> Secondary effect is more appropriate on your character's Fort save Stun power to represent fast-acting poison than on your Blast, imho.  But then you'd have a lot of extra pp to spend on Blast and nothing at the moment to spend them on.




IMHO I can see a Electric Blast arcing over a body for a bit of time as the static charge dissipates.


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

I was thinking that the raw impact does the first damage, and the toxin seeping into the body does the second damage... The wiki on Spider Woman suggests she can launch that stuff really fast and hard (it mentions her punching through a metal plate with it).


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## Elric (Aug 11, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I was thinking that the raw impact does the first damage, and the toxin seeping into the body does the second damage... The wiki on Spider Woman suggests she can launch that stuff really fast and hard (it mentions her punching through a metal plate with it).




Toxin, though, should probably be a Fort save shifted damaging attack, not regular damage like impact.  Blast (Alt Save: Fort) is a power you don't have but could easily justify.


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

Hmm...maybe that should be the main attack...

Then I can use a secondary effect on one of the AP's...representing a concentrated, high speed corrosive venom.


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## Jemal (Aug 11, 2007)

Allright, UPdated wolverine.  While I was at it, I also added 2 ranks of Luck and Endurance, re-organized the Powers section (To show which powers are from the Adamantine Skeleton and which ones are Mutant/Training), and dropped the "claws deal self damage and take action to extend" Flaw, b/c I had extra points.. I decided Wolvie can usually draw them out pretty damn quick, and though they hurt, you were right that the 1 lvl of damage doesn't mean much to wolverine anyways.  
They still only deal Lethal Damage, however.

I have 5 pp left & don't know what to spend it on.


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## Elric (Aug 11, 2007)

Jemal- you have so many extra points because you upped his Con


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## Jemal (Aug 11, 2007)

seemed a good way to represent his untiring nature (I didn't want load down on too many Endurance Feats.)


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## Elric (Aug 11, 2007)

I was surprised that you had 20 Con before, since most of the ATT builds have 22-24.  Before the change, Capt had higher Con than Wolverine.

Edit- oh, you should take Innate on your adamantium skeleton.


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## Jemal (Aug 11, 2007)

Well technically, it's not Innate.. certain powers could theoretically 'nullify' some of what it grants me, and Wolverine looses it entirely in the comics at one point.


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## Elric (Aug 11, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Well technically, it's not Innate.. certain powers could theoretically 'nullify' some of what it grants me, and Wolverine looses it entirely in the comics at one point.




I won't belabor the point, but when Wolverine loses his adamentium skeleton that's a complication.  "Rip adamantium skeleton out of your body" isn't a normal nullify power- it's a plot device.  The same way something could counteract the super-soldier serum, but Capt America's abilities aren't bought as enhanced abilities.

Edit- having said that, I realize that the same argument would apply to making Capt's powers innate (in fact, I could even make his abilities enhanced abilities and buy them as innate).  So I'm not sure that this line of argument is as fruitful as I thought 

In my defense, BARON, MDSnowman and Taliesin on ATT all gave their Wolverine builds an Innate Adamantium Skeleton.


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## Elric (Aug 12, 2007)

Necro- I seem to recall that either A) taking 20 on Gather Information always attracts notice if you're looking for sensitive info or B) You can't learn particularly sensitive information by taking 20 on Gather Information or C) Both. But I don't have my book with me, so I'm not sure about that.  If A) is true, taking 20 on Gather Info may not be the best plan.

I think you can take a penalty on gather info to avoid attracting any attention, but I think doing that precludes taking 20.

Edit- tried to use Aid Another to give you +4 on your check (due to Teamwork 2).  Did I need to roll a DC 10 check to do so?  Someone with the book, please let me know.

In any case, no more rules posts for now.  I'm going to sit back, relax, and enjoy the game


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## Karl Green (Aug 12, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Necro- I seem to recall that either A) taking 20 on Gather Information always attracts notice if you're looking for sensitive info or B) You can't learn particularly sensitive information by taking 20 on Gather Information or C) Both. But I don't have my book with me, so I'm not sure about that.  If A) is true, taking 20 on Gather Info may not be the best plan.
> 
> I think you can take a penalty on gather info to avoid attracting any attention, but I think doing that precludes taking 20.
> 
> ...





Taking 20 will attract attention... and Yes you need only make a 10 to aid another


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 12, 2007)

Ah. Hmm...I though that repeated attempts at gathering information attracted attention, not taking a 20. I am only asking my contact, not a large group of people, wouldn't this attract less attention? And would taking a 10 attract any less?


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## Shayuri (Aug 12, 2007)

Taking 20 represents trying 20 times...so for Gather Information, it would be considered repeated attempts.


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## Karl Green (Aug 12, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Ah. Hmm...I though that repeated attempts at gathering information attracted attention, not taking a 20. I am only asking my contact, not a large group of people, wouldn't this attract less attention? And would taking a 10 attract any less?




Yep, sorry I was wrong... BUT re-reading Gather Info is says that you can Take 10, but not 20. I believe the only way to draw attention is if you roll below a 10 (which you can't with a +10 skill but hey )


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## Karl Green (Aug 12, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Taking 20 represents trying 20 times...so for Gather Information, it would be considered repeated attempts.




Just asking the same question over and over until the tell you want you want


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## Shayuri (Aug 12, 2007)

Are we there yet?

Are we there yet?

Are we there yet?


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## Redclaw (Aug 12, 2007)

I will be without computer access until Tuesday evening.  It probably won't hamper much, as we're not into combat yet, but I thought I should let you all know.
'Claw


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 12, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Yep, sorry I was wrong... BUT re-reading Gather Info is says that you can Take 10, but not 20. I believe the only way to draw attention is if you roll below a 10 (which you can't with a +10 skill but hey )




With the Contacts feat you can take a 20 if you talk to your contact(s) for more than 20 minutes.

I'll just roll after work, which i should really leave for.....


So Ronin's new roll for Gather Information shall be: 29

Plus the Cap'n helped, so that's plus how many more? 

I think that worked out rather well.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 13, 2007)

Also, does taking Autofire twice only give you both of the benefits? (+10 damage max and +1 for every 1 over) or do you have to pick one or the other?

edited new roll (see above) into IC thread as well


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## Jemal (Aug 13, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Just asking the same question over and over until the tell you want you want



More like asking the same question of different people, I'd think.

Also, Necro Kinder - 


> Also, does taking Autofire twice only give you both of the benefits? (+10 damage max and +1 for every 1 over) or do you have to pick one or the other?



You have to pick one the second time you take it, and you get them all if you take it 3 times (For a total +3/rank modifier)


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## hero4hire (Aug 13, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Also, does taking Autofire twice only give you both of the benefits? (+10 damage max and +1 for every 1 over) or do you have to pick one or the other?
> 
> edited new roll (see above) into IC thread as well




Applying this extra a second time reduces the Autofire interval
(the amount your attack roll needs to exceed the target’s Defense)
to 1 instead of 2. Another application of the extra can also increase
the maximum saving throw DC bonus to +10, or the attack’s normal
save DC modifier, whichever is less. The bonus granted by Autofire
does not count against power level limits.


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## Karl Green (Aug 13, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> With the Contacts feat you can take a 20 if you talk to your contact(s) for more than 20 minutes.
> 
> I'll just roll after work, which i should really leave for.....
> 
> ...




Ah, I did not see Contacts on your sheet there, sorry 

OK then, good roll (and Cap is helping Black Widow BUT still good roll)


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## Elric (Aug 13, 2007)

Karl, it seems like we don't have any more scouting around/info gathering to do at the moment, so you might want to advance the plot to the evening.


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## Karl Green (Aug 13, 2007)

I wanted to make sure no one else had anything they wanted to look into... but I will advance it to the point of where you are all meeting up for a late supper...


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## Karl Green (Aug 13, 2007)

One last thing... I am a bit iffy about some of your 'upgrades' that you have all been going for... not all, but I DON'T want this to be an "arms-race" to improve you combat efficient to the most point-by-point advantages... 

I need to look over everyone's stuff again before approving. I want you to have the character that you want BUT I don't want you to out-do everyone else... make sense??


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## Elric (Aug 14, 2007)

Re: the docks scene.  Karl, Capt Brit has Extended Vision but if we're using my most recent revisions for this fight, he doesn't have Low Light Vision anymore (Extended Hearing instead).  Does he see anything different from the other characters by virtue of potentially being able to see farther?  Wolverine and Capt Brit (post revision) have Extended Hearing- can they catch any of the conversations?


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

Hmm, the Captain could maybe see the rifles a bit more... they are fairly heavy, with a strange box underneath the forward part of the barrel (just before the trigger area)... he has seen something similar in Wakanda, on something they called "assault rifles" 

They can hear bits and pieces of the conversations, mostly about how much money they are going to get paid tonight and how cold it is... 

As this is London, I should have added some *fog*, but it will be rolling in


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> ok, since a few others are tweaking their characters, I made a few alterations to the Scarlet Witch....for your approval...
> 
> Probability Control with Jinx as an Extra is a point-sink.  After designing that Nullify Field Extra Effort, I noted that the rules suggest a different power build can be an alternate power.  So, I made the following tweaks:
> 
> ...




This seems ok with me and is approved for our upcoming... encounter...


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

OK Wolverine looks good... EXCEPT for one thing I am not 100% about -- *Unconscious 1 (1 Round)*. I kind of have the feeling this is just a bit to good. Now I am not 100% against it, but it just one of those abilities that I am not overly happy about in M&M2nd ed and UP. I guess I can live with it, but I am not 100% happy (and it is tech in the rules)


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Ok, so for Ronin:
> 
> Ditch the Nunchaku
> Ditch Stunning attack (DC 16 fort save is too easy)
> ...




Looks good and it is approved for this encounter


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

Any one else changing now? I have Captain Britania, which I approved. Is Black Widow changing her blast? Let me know... I might have missed it.

*Hero Points* as of right now (REMEMBER to post them in the title with your Characters NAME and Conditions)

Black Widow – 3pts 
Captain Britania – 5pts
The Hulk – 3pts
Justices – 6pts* 
Ronin – 6pts 
Scarlet Witch – 3pts
Thor – 5pts
Wolverine – 4pts

*I did allow you to re-roll your Fort save, but if I missed one let me know.


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## Elric (Aug 14, 2007)

Karl, you gave Justice the regular 2 HP after the fight plus 2 more HP for complications.  Here's my take on that HP situation:

Redclaw- just looking back over the fight, it seems to me like you had 4 HP then spent two in the final round: one to reroll your grapple roll and then another to reroll your Fort save (which Karl let you do).  Unless you gained an HP somewhere that round that I didn't see, that should have left you with 2 at the end of the fight, which means 6 now.

Also, Blind/someone else- what does Thor's rain weather control power do exactly?  That might be a very useful way to sneak up on these guys.  Problem: that other force can probably feel Thor's powers if he can feel its presence.  Myth- does Scarlet Witch have something that will provide a particularly good distraction (but again, that a power is at work may be detected)?


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## Shayuri (Aug 14, 2007)

I would like to change the "poison" effect on her main blast with the Secondary Effect extra...no change in price, the venom is just now faster-acting (apply damage again the following turn, rather than 10 turns later), which makes it a tactically useful extra.

I'd also like to take the Poison extra away from the Stun power, and increase Stun's rank by 2...to max it to my PL. 

I'll change my sheet as soon as I have your blessing.


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## Elric (Aug 14, 2007)

Oh- if anyone has a strategic plan for this battle, chime in IC or OOC.  Capt is supposed to be really good at this stuff, but I'm much better at own-action style tactics than entire battle planning.


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## Jemal (Aug 14, 2007)

RE: Unconsciousness - It basically means that instead of being knocked out, he spends a round helpless, and then the next round has to use his move action to stand up.  I would've taken it a bit less, but didn't think he should be out for a full Minute..  And there's nothing in between, unfortunately.  If you want to make it 2 rounds just for balance sake, I'd be fine with that.  I just figure Wolvie getting knocked out shouldn't put him out for the rest of the fight, only part of it.


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## Shayuri (Aug 14, 2007)

Just did. 

Basically, I'm thinking a pincer attack, with our bricks feinting to draw attention, followed up by Widow and anyone else who can sneak decently coming in from the other side. The idea is to make sure that they don't know which way they want to focus all those guns at. Left...right...we're all over.

Any area attacks anyone has would be good. We might start the attack by throwing big crates or something at them...enough of us have super strength to pull that off, and there's gotta be big, heavy objects around we could throw in for impromptu area strikes.


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I would like to change the "poison" effect on her main blast with the Secondary Effect extra...no change in price, the venom is just now faster-acting (apply damage again the following turn, rather than 10 turns later), which makes it a tactically useful extra.
> 
> I'd also like to take the Poison extra away from the Stun power, and increase Stun's rank by 2...to max it to my PL.
> 
> I'll change my sheet as soon as I have your blessing.




Good to good then, cause yes I approve


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> RE: Unconsciousness - It basically means that instead of being knocked out, he spends a round helpless, and then the next round has to use his move action to stand up.  I would've taken it a bit less, but didn't think he should be out for a full Minute..  And there's nothing in between, unfortunately.  If you want to make it 2 rounds just for balance sake, I'd be fine with that.  I just figure Wolvie getting knocked out shouldn't put him out for the rest of the fight, only part of it.




Let me think on it a bit... as written (and totally 100% within the rules) it seems a bit to good (for 1pp) but I don't want to knock it out all the way...


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Oh- if anyone has a strategic plan for this battle, chime in IC or OOC.  Capt is supposed to be really good at this stuff, but I'm much better at own-action style tactics than entire battle planning.




ALSO remember your Master Plan bonus... whenever Capt gives the "word" you will all get +3 to your Attack and Skill rolls for 3 rounds, +2 for 1 round after that and +1 on the fifth round


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## Karl Green (Aug 14, 2007)

If anyone wants to sneak over to some of the southern warehouses, please make and post your Stealth rolls over in IC


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## hero4hire (Aug 14, 2007)

have to wait until tomorrow to post, baby is crying!


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## Elric (Aug 14, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> RE: Unconsciousness - It basically means that instead of being knocked out, he spends a round helpless, and then the next round has to use his move action to stand up.  I would've taken it a bit less, but didn't think he should be out for a full Minute..  And there's nothing in between, unfortunately.  If you want to make it 2 rounds just for balance sake, I'd be fine with that.  I just figure Wolvie getting knocked out shouldn't put him out for the rest of the fight, only part of it.




So, a few points:
1) You can already recover from Unconscious with a hero point (and be certain that it will work, given your recovery check).  So as long as you have hero points, you don't need regen to keep getting up- for a while- if you're knocked out.  If you take Regen 1 (from Unconscious) then there is absolutely no way to keep you out of action for any length of time without using lethal damage and given that you regenerate from disabled in 1 round, the only way to put you out for the duration of a fight is to kill you.  

2) Regen from Unconscious in general has the impossible to keep you down problem mentioned above, but in addition to that Regen from Unconscious for 1 pp is way undercosted.  You'll note that h4h took at least 1 rank of Regen- recovery rate for everything besides Unconscious.  

If I spend 1 pp on it ("Captain Britain is really tough- it's hard to keep him down just by knocking him out"), Captain Britain would on average require being knocked out 6 times before he would fail a recovery check and stay down.  It's a huge increase in durability for 1 pp.

3) Viewing this as a problem is quite common.  Paragon, one of the most prominent posters on ATT, says he has a gentleman's agreement with his players that no one takes Regen from Unconscious.  That's not usually done for an ability that's balanced.


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## Elric (Aug 14, 2007)

Karl, the ship is really supposed to be 750 feet long, right (I count 15 map squares at 50 feet/square)?  This 50 feet to a square thing feels very strange because the distances are so much larger than I'm used to.  When trying to plan tactics I'm running into the problem that besides Thor and Hulk, I don't think any of us can cover these distances at all quickly.

Also, do those magically created walls go all the way around, or are there gaps between them as seen on the map?  How high are the walls?


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## Karl Green (Aug 15, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl, the ship is really supposed to be 750 feet long, right (I count 15 map squares at 50 feet/square)?  This 50 feet to a square thing feels very strange because the distances are so much larger than I'm used to.  When trying to plan tactics I'm running into the problem that besides Thor and Hulk, I don't think any of us can cover these distances at all quickly.
> 
> Also, do those magically created walls go all the way around, or are there gaps between them as seen on the map?  How high are the walls?





EDIT OPS sorry... thinking about something else as I post here for a different game!! D'oh 


While most freight ships can be pretty big (even from this time, early steam driven ones). I might have picked one that was to big, it should be about one-half that size. *OK lets say the squares are 25ft each!!!!* 

I am going to do another map where the squares are 10ft and focus just right around the ship. Part of the problem (as I sometimes see it) with M&M2nd ed is Movement is just so all over the place. The only people whom will not be able to get there in a round are Wolverine and Ronin (maybe Scarlet Witch) I am pretty sure... even 1 rank of Flight or Speed, etc and you can cover 400ft in a round. Plus, yea Justice can move a lot of you pretty fast... 

The magic walls have gaps in them, only the red lines are the walls. They are about 40ft long and 10 or 15ft high, just as an FYI. You can see though them, etc.


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## Redclaw (Aug 15, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl, you gave Justice the regular 2 HP after the fight plus 2 more HP for complications.  Here's my take on that HP situation:
> 
> Redclaw- just looking back over the fight, it seems to me like you had 4 HP then spent two in the final round: one to reroll your grapple roll and then another to reroll your Fort save (which Karl let you do).  Unless you gained an HP somewhere that round that I didn't see, that should have left you with 2 at the end of the fight, which means 6 now.




Yup, when Gargoyle rerolled his check to keep me from grappling him.  I'm fine with 6, however.  I don't want to sound greedy.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 15, 2007)

I have a plan, if anyone wants to hear it. Would've gotten it up quicker but I had work.

Ok, we have the Wrecking Crew, some thugs with full auto weapons, and apparently two Gatlings guns or something similar. 

First question: Kastle says his men are at our disposal. How many men is that? How so are they armed? 

Second Question: Are these solid walls? On the map there are spaces, can we go around them then? Can we use them for cover?

So the plan.
Ronin and Cap'n will sneak around and take out the northern canon / Gatling emplacement. Widow and Wolverine can take out the Southern one. This puts a stealth character and a brawler at both guns to take them out before they get a chance to open up on us. Kastle and his men will be lead by Thor and Hulk down the center. I figure this is good because they both could take out a few thugs and even start to tangle with the Wrecking Crew. Kastle and his men will hopefully keep the Thugs busy and give us a chance to deal with the supers.
Justice and Witch can be back-up / support, helping those who need it and using ranged attacks. 

Is this in anyway a good plan? I figure we want to not be all in one place when they open fire, we want them to have to separate their fire and not be able to concentrate it. And we want the Gatlings taken down first. If we do it right, we could possibly dispose of those operating the canon and turn them back on themselves. 

This plan assumes that we have Kastle and a few of his guys and that we can get through or around those walls.


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## Jemal (Aug 15, 2007)

I have a quicker way to take out a gun...
How's Hulk's pitching arm?


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## Elric (Aug 15, 2007)

So, my plan is that Justice carries us behind the guns to that they're directed outward and we're inside them.  I don't think that type of gun actually swivels in this era, so that should be a nice benefit.  Also, we'll get the benefit of surprise.  Kastle can lead his men towards the battle from a side that isn't going to be attacked by a gun, or we'll take one out if there is no such side.


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## Karl Green (Aug 15, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Yup, when Gargoyle rerolled his check to keep me from grappling him.  I'm fine with 6, however.  I don't want to sound greedy.




D'oh did I miss that one! Hmm let me re-look, it might be 7 

I want you guys to have a few for.... upcoming stuff


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## Karl Green (Aug 15, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> First question: Kastle says his men are at our disposal. How many men is that? How so are they armed?
> 
> Second Question: Are these solid walls? On the map there are spaces, can we go around them then? Can we use them for cover?
> .




In the IC it does say 20 men. As these are Scotland Yard and they were expecting trouble (and firearms and explosives) they are all armed... with revolvers. 

The walls only cover the areas shown on the map. There are gabs between them...


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## Karl Green (Aug 15, 2007)

So, I don't want to rush the plan... but Capt and Ronin sneak towards the Northern gun, while Widow makes her way to the southern gun... and then the plan for attack is signaled by the Hulk throwing Wolverine at the southern gun?


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## Redclaw (Aug 15, 2007)

I like the Captain's plan.  Justice can bring the Avengers in from above and we can come down behind those big guns.  We'll have to deal with the Crew, but there are only four of them.


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## Karl Green (Aug 15, 2007)

Well I want a final plan before I post an update


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## Elric (Aug 15, 2007)

Remember, Capt Brit's plan would only be suicide in real life- this is M&M


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 15, 2007)

I like the fastball special idea, attacking from 3 different areas, taking them by surprise, and taking out the bigs guns first and fast. Perhaps we could combine the plans? Have Ronin and the Cap'n go to the north gun, widow to the south, have Hulk chuck Wolverine into the south gun and have Justice drop Kastle and his men behind the walls and have Thor doing air support? Hulk could jump in after throwing Wolverine. Then Justice and Scarlet Witch can proved back up and cover for everyone. The main reason I like this better is because I think that only Hulk, Thor, Wolverine and the Captain could take down the Wrecking crew. I think the rest of us would have a hard time with them, but could easily take out the goons with the rifles.

Anyone else have some ideas?


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## Karl Green (Aug 15, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Remember, Capt Brit's plan would only be suicide in real life- this is M&M




HAHAH  and there for COMIC LOGIC applies


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## Elric (Aug 16, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> I The main reason I like this better is because I think that only Hulk, Thor, Wolverine and the Captain could take down the Wrecking crew. I think the rest of us would have a hard time with them, but could easily take out the goons with the rifles.




You just took Power Attack- used liberally, it's a very significant increase in your abiliy to harm these kinds of opponents (who are probably either toughness shifted, have significant Impervious, or both).

Also, Widow won't have any trouble hurting these guys (full penetrating on blast), Justice and Scarlet Witch can put so many pp in offensive abilities that they'll definitely be pretty effective.  Scarlet Witch has some really good area attacks- she should use those on as many enemies as she can.


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## hero4hire (Aug 16, 2007)

Sorry guys...I have been busy with the Baby the past couple of days or else I would've caught this sooner, but Hulk isnt with you Banner is...and Banner doesn't want to be the Hulk. While I am sure *something* will happen to have him "Hulk out" he is just a puny human right now.


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## Shayuri (Aug 16, 2007)

Yeah see...I'm thinking we really need to open up with area attacks.

Those of us who don't have AE's can throw things. Black Widow has enough super strength to heft a pretty big object in there. Thor and Hulk could probably throw whole ships over. 

We gotta thin that crowd out, or they will put a world of hurting on us.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 16, 2007)

Also, for the stealthy-er approach, we have the fog on our side and Thor can make rain reducing their visibility even more. 

AND I will probably not be posting this weekend. Don't think I'm gonna take my laptop to Gencon. wooooo. Anyone else gonna be there?


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

I like Necro-kinder's Idea best.

As for Banner not being angry enough... Well that happens to be one of Wolverine's specialties.

"Come on you pansy, stop _trying_ to throw me and THROW ME." *slap slap*  Though I don't think the others would approve.

SO.... I GUESS we could have Thor throw Wolvie? (250')  Or should I just sneak over? (I think wolverine's the stealthiest we've got, and I can climb walls)


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> AND I will probably not be posting this weekend. Don't think I'm gonna take my laptop to Gencon. wooooo. Anyone else gonna be there?




  You suck.
I'm Canadian and didn't think to get a passport, then I realized "HEY, Gencon's soon!  HEY, I can't go even though I've got BOTH enough money AND a month off... HEY, that SUCKS!!!!"

Next year, though...


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## the_myth (Aug 16, 2007)

sorry for not posting for awhile...life got in the way...

Character updated in Rogue's Gallery.

Note: I increased her Luck Feat to the max of 4, so Witchy has 6 Hero Points instead of 3 for this round.

I foresee at least 5 attack rerolls in my future! haha


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## Elric (Aug 16, 2007)

Necro, do you want to designate someone (not me, I'll just be getting back from vacation) to decide actions for you this weekend if we find ourselves in combat.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 16, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I think wolverine's the stealthiest we've got, and I can climb walls




Nope   

Ronin the uber-ninja has you beat. Stealth +17. You're using-claws-to-climb thing works better then my +15 climb though.


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## Blind Azathoth (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm afraid I will also be gone part of the time this weekend, though not because I'm going to GenCon; I'm moving into my own apartment this weekend (huzzah!) and it might take a while to get the cable set up. I'll definitely be gone all of Saturday and part of Sunday, and possibly late Friday as well, depending on how much I'll still have to get done before the move.

Anybody who feels like controlling Thor while I'm gone can. Take turns! It's fun to hit things with a hammer! 

Not that Thor actually did all that much hitting...


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## Karl Green (Aug 16, 2007)

Ah yes moving... my wife and I are also moving... mostly next weekend but some also this weekend... man I hate moving, which is why I have been renting this last place for almost 10 years... but oh well


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## Shayuri (Aug 16, 2007)

Shucks...I only have +10 Stealth. But I can climb walls without claws...and then glide away. So Ha!


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## Elric (Aug 16, 2007)

Remember, Justice's Flight power doesn't require all of us to end up in the same place. It's just described as him lifting you- it's more like him endowing you with the ability to lift yourself.  So flying straight into the middle of the enemies is going to be better (crazy as it sounds) than sneaking in the sides and risking taking a lot of fire before we close.


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## Karl Green (Aug 16, 2007)

This be true … BUT depending on what steps you want to take to ‘conceal’ your approach, I am going to give the Wrenching Crew and troopers a Notice check to act in the Surprise round… now the DC will depend on a few things. Those without some kind of night vision are going to have a base of probably 15 or 20, depending on how you come at them (Dropping straight down out of the sky or flying at them from the warehouse, etc). You can increase this DC fairly easily with other actions… just as an idea


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## Elric (Aug 17, 2007)

Well, the obvious trick is rain provided by Thor.  Scarlet Witch can probably cook something up as a distraction (e.g., a little bit before we jump over Blast some of the equipment).

Hulk probably won't be thinking to do anything if it's him and not banner.

Ronin, Capt, Widow and Wolverine probably can't do much as a distraction without drawing attention to themselves in the first place.  Justice will have his hands full, so to speak, with lending flight to everyone.  Anyone else have any ideas?


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## Shayuri (Aug 17, 2007)

Are we giving up on the crate throwing before we mix it up in melee?


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## Jemal (Aug 17, 2007)

I still like the Wolverine-bomb idea, but that's just me.


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## Elric (Aug 17, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I still like the Wolverine-bomb idea, but that's just me.




But with Flight granted by justice, you can "throw" yourself wherever you want.  No erratic Hulk performance required.  We're all going to want to land anyways since Justice will want to switch his pp to elsewhere.


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## Karl Green (Aug 17, 2007)

OK so then I will assume that Thor makes rain (Weather Control 8: reduced visibility [rain]), Scarlet Witch will do something to the docking ramps and Captain Britania will make Banner mad to get the Hulk, and then Justice will all fly into the center of the badguys...

Correct? If so please post over in the IC your action (althought if Thor is offline we can assume he just starts doing that now)...


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## Elric (Aug 17, 2007)

Karl, I don't think we want to fly right into the center.

In particular, Wolverine may want to get somewhere else, and Capt will certainly want to land near the North Cannon so he can take its operators out.


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## Shayuri (Aug 17, 2007)

Indeed...and Black Widow is basically a blaster first...she'll want a place she can zap people from a distance, at least at first. She's probably fast enough and quiet enough that she can get where she needs to be without needing the TK field.


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## Karl Green (Aug 17, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl, I don't think we want to fly right into the center.
> 
> In particular, Wolverine may want to get somewhere else, and Capt will certainly want to land near the North Cannon so he can take its operators out.




OK, you guys and post what square(s) you want to appear in...




			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> Indeed...and Black Widow is basically a blaster first...she'll want a place she can zap people from a distance, at least at first. She's probably fast enough and quiet enough that she can get where she needs to be without needing the TK field.




Well if you are flying above, you have your Accurate Hearing so you don't need to see them to target them correct? Just let me know where you are 'shotting' from


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## the_myth (Aug 17, 2007)

Can we agree that the attack will begin once the distractions start?

I'm not sure how effective Scarlet Witch's Damage effect from Probability Control will be on the ramps.  So, since she has 2 move actions per round, she will use the Ranged Damage effect from Probability Control to target the 2 most southern ramps and then the 2 most northern ramps (which means the middle ramp gets hit twice).  If they don't collapse in one round, she'll focus just the center one (as a full action).

We'd need to set up some sort of plan whereby everyone gets in position and then awaits the ramps to collapse.


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## hero4hire (Aug 17, 2007)

If he is still in control Banner will try to Hide somewhere he can survey the scene (behind a crate, barrel etc, or from the confines of a darkened alleyway.)

Mister Hulk will just jump on Thunderball (charge attack using leaping) if he emerges.


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## Karl Green (Aug 17, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> Can we agree that the attack will begin once the distractions start?
> 
> I'm not sure how effective Scarlet Witch's Damage effect from Probability Control will be on the ramps.  So, since she has 2 move actions per round, she will use the Ranged Damage effect from Probability Control to target the 2 most southern ramps and then the 2 most northern ramps (which means the middle ramp gets hit twice).  If they don't collapse in one round, she'll focus just the center one (as a full action).
> 
> We'd need to set up some sort of plan whereby everyone gets in position and then awaits the ramps to collapse.




I don't think you can attack twice, unless it is area or something. Otherwise you would normally attack them one at a time, even though they are just sitting there and you can't really miss


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## the_myth (Aug 17, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> I don't think you can attack twice, unless it is area or something. Otherwise you would normally attack them one at a time, even though they are just sitting there and you can't really miss




It's a Perception Range, Move Action, Burst Area Attack.  ;-)  Since 2 Move actions are allowed per round....

Although, you know what, I'd rather focus on bringing down one ramp in one round.  Focusing on it should make it guaranteed (if I read the Damaging Objects rules properly...).


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## Karl Green (Aug 18, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> It's a Perception Range, Move Action, Burst Area Attack.  ;-)  Since 2 Move actions are allowed per round....
> 
> Although, you know what, I'd rather focus on bringing down one ramp in one round.  Focusing on it should make it guaranteed (if I read the Damaging Objects rules properly...).




Ah got ya, so then that would work and all... but I am not super duper comfortable with a Move Action attack on people... might have to re-think that a bit.


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## Karl Green (Aug 18, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> OOC, Capt's movement
> (Hopefully this has made Banner angry.  Once we get him angry and he transforms into Hulk, there's no time to lose.  Not sure what kind of a check this would be, but if this wouldn't work I'm spending an HP and 'using' Leadership to give Banner the 'angry' condition )
> 
> Captain Britain will fly himself over to where the Northern Cannon is being manned by the three guys (just south of the cannon).
> ...





In 2nd ed, in the surprise round, you can only take a Standard or Move Action which in the first battle when the badguys 'moved and attacked' I gave you Hero Points as they were in affect Surging. I don't think you can normally charge BUT if you want to spend a HP I will let you


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## Karl Green (Aug 18, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> If the Captain's speech fails to raise the ire:
> 
> Seeing everyone ready for action Banner begins to slink away looking for a good place to hide.




Well, your Involuntary Transform has a Freq DC 10, as does your Normal Identity, which is every-other enounter... so normally I would say, you were last time, not this time UNLESS you want to make yourself angry OR HP it to get into a situation where you will be angry, etc.

Sound fair? Your thoughts???


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## Elric (Aug 18, 2007)

Just movement, then.  Capt will activate Master Plan before the start of the first regular round.  Also, Thor should probably dismiss the rain once a regular round of combat begins and he gets an action- depends how the battle is going.


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## Karl Green (Aug 18, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> If the Captain's speech fails to raise the ire:
> 
> Seeing everyone ready for action Banner begins to slink away looking for a good place to hide.




You know I thought a bit more about it on the ride home tonight and I think that I will give the Hulk +1 HP where he sneaks around as Banner... basically a set-back as it were. Then something will happen to make Banner mad and he will Hulk-Out... sound reasonable???





			
				Elric said:
			
		

> Just movement, then.  Capt will activate Master Plan before the start of the first regular round.  Also, Thor should probably dismiss the rain once a regular round of combat begins and he gets an action- depends how the battle is going.




Well Justice can put your right down where ever you want and the thugs around the gatlin gun are close enough for Take-Down Attack. 

BUT, let go ahead and start rolling Initiative for the surprise round. Post what square you want to end up in, and what action you are taking. If you are attacking, please post any rolls , damage that you are doing, etc.


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## hero4hire (Aug 18, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> You know I thought a bit more about it on the ride home tonight and I think that I will give the Hulk +1 HP where he sneaks around as Banner... basically a set-back as it were. Then something will happen to make Banner mad and he will Hulk-Out... sound reasonable???




Very reasonable! Its in his Complications that neither Banner or Mr Hulk want to turn into eachother.

Plus those Drawbacks have to come into play every now and then right?


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## the_myth (Aug 18, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Ah got ya, so then that would work and all... but I am not super duper comfortable with a Move Action attack on people... might have to re-think that a bit.




Well, the concept is the Damage alternate power from Probability Control causes a damaging accident.  In this case, I am thinking the ramps will warp and splinter, falling into the Thames.  It's only a Rank 5 attack, so it's not exactly a fireball or anything.  

Let me know...I can always redesign again.


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## Karl Green (Aug 18, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> Well, the concept is the Damage alternate power from Probability Control causes a damaging accident.  In this case, I am thinking the ramps will warp and splinter, falling into the Thames.  It's only a Rank 5 attack, so it's not exactly a fireball or anything.
> 
> Let me know...I can always redesign again.




Well at +5 that is not to bad, I am just a bit uncomfortable with 2 attacks in a round, even at so low... against Objects, etc I am totally cool with it, but against 'moving objects' (people, etc) that I might not want to deal with... as it is only a +1 extra... hmmm, lets not worry about it right now...


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## Elric (Aug 18, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> Let me know...I can always redesign again.




Note that if you drop the Action- Move Action extra, then you can take the power at rank 6 instead of rank 5 and it costs exactly the same number of pp.  So a redesign wouldn't need to be hard or complicated.

Edit- just noticed that Capt Brit doesn't have any languages listed on his character sheet even though I paid the pp for a few and took them- my "sheet to text" excel function must not have listed them.  

Further edit- Just looked: English, Swahili, German, French, Arabic, and Hausa.  Will update.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 20, 2007)

I have returned from a terribly wonderful weekend at GenCon, where I bought many a thing and am now broke. I also met Gary Gygax     

But anyway, Ronin's sheet still needs updated, I updated it on my pc but not in the RG. I shall hopefully be back to at least once a day posting, but I am starting school this week so it might be hectic   


Elric: Thanks for the initiative roll and the actions


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## Elric (Aug 20, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Elric: Thanks for the initiative roll and the actions




You're welcome.  I was worried I'd get a "thanks for nothing!" response since I managed to roll a 7 on the initiative d20 

Blind- while we're still in the process of editing characters, I was wondering why your Thor build had the Rage(2) feat.  If you're looking to go into a "fury" where you hit harder at the expense of accuracy you can always use All Out Attack and Power Attack simultaneously, which you already have, to get this effect.  Rage seems like more of a truly blinding Rage ala Wolverine or Hulk and I'm not sure you get all that much out of it.  

Edit- by the rules for Rage, you also couldn't use Flight while in Rage, since it has a Sustained duration.  Karl would probably ignore that, though, because that's a pretty silly outcome.

Also, I find it a little odd that your Reflex save is just as high as your Will save.  Maybe +8 Reflex and +10 Will instead of +9 in both?  I just don't see Thor as having reflexes as good as his Willpower


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## Jemal (Aug 20, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> I have returned from a terribly wonderful weekend at GenCon, where I bought many a thing and am now broke. I also met Gary Gygax




Hmm, I'd love to hear his opinions on 4e.  Last I asked him what his opinions were on the possibility of a fourth edition, he stated outright that unless they go back to the way it was before 3e, he wasn't going to touch any of the 'new' D&D.
[/hijack]


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## hero4hire (Aug 20, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Hmm, I'd love to hear his opinions on 4e.  Last I asked him what his opinions were on the possibility of a fourth edition, he stated outright that unless they go back to the way it was before 3e, he wasn't going to touch any of the 'new' D&D.
> [/hijack]




I love Gary. *Really* nice guy, who has little love for newer editions. (Would you realistically if you had something you created modified so much?)

But realistically he has written stuff for 3x D&D. (Like my signed copy of Necropolis) I am sure if it is lucrative enough he will do the same for 4e.

Me? I am on the fence. I _*hate *_ seeing 1000s of dollars of dead trees on my bookshelves become obsolete. But if the rules are tight...I will probably buy it. :\


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## Karl Green (Aug 20, 2007)

Sorry if I have been quiet there, we found a place and started moving this weekend and then next weekend is the big move. The new place does not have internet hook up yet, but I hope by next week that is taken care of… anyway, if I am a bit slow that is the reason. I will try and keep up during the day, but I am at work so you never know 

As for 4th, well I have so many other cool systems right now... not sure I want to re-invest again????


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## Elric (Aug 20, 2007)

Karl-
Wolverine does 8 damage, not 10- but it didn't end up mattering here.

As Thor's thunderclap was an AP of his array with the rain, the rain will stop now that he's used it- revealing his angry form!

I didn't realize that you were going to make the surprise round the time after we flew in on them.  Is this what you did: We move into their midst as what launched the combat and then they got notice rolls to see if they could act in the first round of combat , which was a surprise round, so everyone who did get to act only got a single action?

Also, Ronin didn't Power Attack with the sword- it was just a normal crit.  Edit- I had said that it's a little cheap to break the sword without giving him an HP, but it is just equipment and if you only did it because the guy rolled a natural 20 then it doesn't seem as bad.  If you had done it on a roll of 15 then I'd say definitely HP (these villains sure roll a lot of natural 20s ). 

Necro- might want to re-edit the character after the fight and spend 1 pp to buy back that extra weapon (or buy the sword as a device to represent his fantastic skill with it- then this couldn't happen).


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## Karl Green (Aug 20, 2007)

Ah sorry for the mis-understanding there... but in the Surprise Round you only get a Move or Standard Action (M&M2nd ed. pg. 153). And so I also gave the Villains a Notice check to 'Determine Awareness' and if they made it, the roll initiative as normal...

Wolverine's claws, ops. NOTED 

Ronin's sword... well as I said, it is equipment and a natural 20 AND the Wrecker has Impervious of 8, but re-reading I guess it was the Fient I was thinking was a Power Attack for some reason... oh well   again, if this were a Device, even with a Power Attack and a nat20 on the Toughness save I would have giving a HP for breaking the sword (unless of course it was unbreakable)... it just adds drama  oh and equipment should maybe have some drawbacks


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## Elric (Aug 20, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Ah sorry for the mis-understanding there... but in the Surprise Round you only get a Move or Standard Action (M&M2nd ed. pg. 153). And so I also gave the Villains a Notice check to 'Determine Awareness' and if they made it, the roll initiative as normal...




No problem- this was more generous to us than I expected (Capt didn't have to use Extra Effort to take out those guys during the surprise round like I thought he would)

Btw, I think h4h was having Banner try to hide, not follow Kastle and his men.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 21, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> "OOC"
> OOC: Acrobatic Bluff as a move action at +12 on the Wrecker.  Total= 16.
> http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1216480
> 
> ...




Acrobatic Bluff as a Move Action for what I presue is a Feint, is -5 to your Roll, that would be an 11, just as an FYI... but I could still roll low  AND I think you have to decide if you want to Power Attack, etc. before I tell you the results   

But you still got a crit on him!


----------



## Elric (Aug 21, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Acrobatic Bluff as a Move Action for what I presue is a Feint, is -5 to your Roll, that would be an 11, just as an FYI... but I could still roll low  AND I think you have to decide if you want to Power Attack, etc. before I tell you the results
> 
> But you still got a crit on him!




Edit- Acrobatic Bluff is at +12 because it is +14 base -5 as a move action + 3 Master Plan= +12.

The story (throwing the shield and then trying to fool him) is just description.  In game mechanics terms, I already know whether Acrobatic Bluff will work when I make the attack.  In particular, I can feint as a move action and then use my standard action to make an attack.  I’m pretty sure there is no requirement that you use tradeoff feats at the start of your round, so this works fine

Also, Blind- you'll probably want to spend an HP to cancel the fatigue from Extra Effort—knocking out eight guys in one round has its price (I was the one who decided you would use Extra Effort, so hope you're satisfied with the benefit from your HP )


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 21, 2007)

Awwwwwww crap on a stick......I knew trying to take him on was a bad idea....Not sure what to do now. I could entirely rearrange him to give him his sword as a Device, but it really is just a normal sword, I can't think of anything that would make it device worthy. I guess these things do happen in comics, and now I shall do what I do best...disappear. Hurray for +17 stealth and Hide in Plain sight.


----------



## Elric (Aug 21, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Awwwwwww crap on a stick......I knew trying to take him on was a bad idea....Not sure what to do now. I could entirely rearrange him to give him his sword as a Device, but it really is just a normal sword, I can't think of anything that would make it device worthy. I guess these things do happen in comics, and now I shall do what I do best...disappear. Hurray for +17 stealth and Hide in Plain sight.




Device doesn't have to be a special super-sword.  It might be a representation of your skill with it (since you can use Extra Effort to gain a power feat on a device) and luck that it never seems to break 

For example, Baron gives Indiana Jones his whip as a device, even though it's an ordinary whip: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=175083#175083

Edit- Blind, you forgot about Master Plan's +3 to attack rolls when rolling your most recent attack with Thor.  Also, you should spend an HP to shake off the fatigue from Extra Effort that I had you use last round- but you'll have 4 HP left so it isn't bad.

While I'm at it- we've all been forgetting to list HP at the top of our posts.  So here's a reminder of what we had going into this fight (although a couple characters may have more due to changing their character around and adding more ranks in Luck):
Black Widow – 3pts 
Captain Britania – 5pts
The Hulk – 3pts
Justices – 6pts
Ronin – 6pts 
Scarlet Witch – 3pts
Thor – 5pts
Wolverine – 4pts


----------



## Elric (Aug 21, 2007)

Shayuri (I think you used Master Plan at +2 this round) and everyone- Master Plan is still at a +3 bonus to skill checks and attack rolls this round.  The bonus stays at +3 for three rounds, so it will still be +3 for this round and the next.


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## Karl Green (Aug 21, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Edit- Acrobatic Bluff is at +12 because it is +14 base -5 as a move action + 3 Master Plan= +12.




Ah, got ya... see you all need to put this stuff into the posts so that I can figure them out  I missed that



			
				Elric said:
			
		

> The story (throwing the shield and then trying to fool him) is just description.  In game mechanics terms, I already know whether Acrobatic Bluff will work when I make the attack.  In particular, I can feint as a move action and then use my standard action to make an attack.  I’m pretty sure there is no requirement that you use tradeoff feats at the start of your round, so this works fine




Yes now it makes senses and is totally legal...




			
				Elric said:
			
		

> Also, Blind- you'll probably want to spend an HP to cancel the fatigue from Extra Effort—knocking out eight guys in one round has its price (I was the one who decided you would use Extra Effort, so hope you're satisfied with the benefit from your HP )




I was going to mention that


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 21, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Awwwwwww crap on a stick......I knew trying to take him on was a bad idea....Not sure what to do now. I could entirely rearrange him to give him his sword as a Device, but it really is just a normal sword, I can't think of anything that would make it device worthy. I guess these things do happen in comics, and now I shall do what I do best...disappear. Hurray for +17 stealth and Hide in Plain sight.




hehehe, well Ronin is GREAT vs. a lot of baddies... just this guy is sort of the leader of the Wrecking Crew and all  

NOTE if you want, you can spend a HP and have another Katana (your picture shows two after all), or if you REALLY want, get two with Equipment Points (you guys will get XP soon, and it is pretty darn cheap)


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 21, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> (Penetrating blast! To hit: 14 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1216921 (scream...can I ever roll more than FOUR on this thing?!) Using a precious HP to reroll for a big 17! http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1216923 DC 23, +8 penetrating. I think I need some Will or reflex targeting attacks...)




Remember when you spend a Hero Point, if you roll a 10 or less, you add +10 to your roll, so you got a 27 to hit him!


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## Elric (Aug 22, 2007)

Jemal- I don't think that Intimidate- Demoralize will give an opponent -2 on saving throws for the round, as Checks don't seem to include saving throws (see page 10).


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## Shayuri (Aug 22, 2007)

It inflicts the Shaken condition, doesn't it?

Shaken affects saves.


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## Elric (Aug 22, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> It inflicts the Shaken condition, doesn't it?
> 
> Shaken affects saves.




Hmm- you're right, the Shaken description on page 171 is different from the description for the skill, which doesn't mention saves.  

In fact, looking at an official rules question to Steve Kenson, he says that only the description on page 171- which mentions saves- is correct.  The others are all in error.  So carry on.

Update- I noticed that Emotion Control: Despair is in the errata as well.  _Under Despair, change the first sentence to read: “The subject is shaken, suffering a –2 on
attack rolls, saving throws, and checks.”_


----------



## Elric (Aug 22, 2007)

Jemal- I don't think the guy you're attacking charged.  Also, since you have extra pp, you could probably buy back the Uncontrolled flaw on Rage for 1 pp


----------



## Jemal (Aug 22, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Jemal- I don't think the guy you're attacking charged.  Also, since you have extra pp, you could probably buy back the Uncontrolled flaw on Rage for 1 pp




Hmm... Thought I allready had, that was one of my planned changes, and it's not uncontrolled on my personal copy.  Must've forgotten to edit.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 22, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Jemal- I don't think that Intimidate- Demoralize will give an opponent -2 on saving throws for the round, as Checks don't seem to include saving throws (see page 10).




Didnt we just go through this all on page 5 of this thread?


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## Karl Green (Aug 22, 2007)

Sorry I am super duper busy today at work and with the big house move in my off time. I am going to try and update tonight or in a bit, but if I am slow there is the reason. I will try and get moving though


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## Elric (Aug 23, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Didnt we just go through this all on page 5 of this thread?




We did, sort of, but I didn't remember that Demoralize made you shaken- I just thought it was an unnamed -2 to attack rolls and checks.  So that was why it didn't register that we'd already been over the issue of Shaken being wrong in the book.


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## hero4hire (Aug 23, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> We did, sort of, but I didn't remember that Demoralize made you shaken- I just thought it was an unnamed -2 to attack rolls and checks.  So that was why it didn't register that we'd already been over the issue of Shaken being wrong in the book.




Gotcha.


----------



## Elric (Aug 23, 2007)

Karl, Thor had power-attacked for 3 so he dealt 11 damage instead of 8, which meant the Toughness save was DC 26.  So the villain still made the save, but he made it exactly instead of by 3.  

Myth- might want to have Scarlet Witch get closer to the fight from the Warehouse, so she can do stuff more easily.

Shayuri- if I stun Wrecker with my attack and he doesn't immediately shake it off (I can hope!) then you probably would hit with your attack without needing to spend an HP on reroll (since he charged and then got stunned), so hopefully Karl would let you not use the reroll.

Edit- I started a conversion thread on Atomic Think Tank where I'm doing a number of Avengers conversions.  If anyone is interested in taking a look, it's here: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=24919


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 23, 2007)

I'd be fine with that result.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 23, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Ultimate Toughness with an HP for a total save of 28.  I assume this was nonlethal, so Capt still takes a bruise.  Stop rolling so many crits against me, darn it!)




hehe sorry about that...




			
				Elric said:
			
		

> OOC: Acrobatic Bluff as a move action at +12 on the Wrecker.  Total= 16.  He opposes with better of Acrobatics and Sense Motive.
> http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1216480
> 
> Then I'll throw the Shield.  Power Attack 3, Defensive Attack 2 if Acrobatic Bluff doesn't work.  If Acrobatic Bluff works, Power Attack 5 and Defensive Attack 4.
> ...





Note that I am still just about 100% sure that you have to decide what you are going to do BEFORE I roll... sort of like with the Toughness save, I don't have to tell you what the TN is if I don't want to... so for this roll it is up to you 



NOTE also I missed Thor's power attack there...


----------



## Elric (Aug 23, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Note that I am still just about 100% sure that you have to decide what you are going to do BEFORE I roll... sort of like with the Toughness save, I don't have to tell you what the TN is if I don't want to... so for this roll it is up to you




Huh?  TN?  Target Number?  Are you referring to something about me or Black Widow?  Unless you mean the "deciding how much to Power Attack for before seeing whether the acrobatic bluff works", which I thought we addressed above, I'm not sure what you mean.   

Also, for Black Widow, if I stunned Wrecker she clearly wouldn't reroll a 14 total against a stunned enemy who had charged (as a character would need to have 23+ Base Defense for that to be a miss, which Wrecker clearly doesn't have).


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 23, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Edit- I started a conversion thread on Atomic Think Tank where I'm doing a number of Avengers conversions.  If anyone is interested in taking a look, it's here: http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=24919




Hmm, I like your idea for Movement quite a lot!


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 23, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Huh?  TN?  Target Number?  Are you referring to something about me or Black Widow?  Unless you mean the "deciding how much to Power Attack for before seeing whether the acrobatic bluff works", which I thought we addressed above, I'm not sure what you mean.




Sorry, Captain Britania needs to decide what level of Power Attack, etc he is going to do BEFORE I roll the Wrecker's Sense Motive (or Acrobatics HAHA) check.


----------



## Elric (Aug 23, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Sorry, Captain Britania needs to decide what level of Power Attack, etc he is going to do BEFORE I roll the Wrecker's Sense Motive (or Acrobatics HAHA) check.



We already discussed this above:


			
				Elric said:
			
		

> The story (throwing the shield and then trying to fool him) is just description. In game mechanics terms, I already know whether Acrobatic Bluff will work when I make the attack. In particular, I can feint as a move action and then use my standard action to make an attack. I’m pretty sure there is no requirement that you use tradeoff feats at the start of your round, so this works fine





			
				Karl Green said:
			
		

> Yes now it makes senses and is totally legal...


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 23, 2007)

Ah see I was answering PART of the question, but not what you were asking  shows me... 

I was saying it was legal for you to use all the Trade-off (All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Power attack, whatever) BUT you were asking could you use them AFTER the Sense Motive roll was know. You don't have to use them at the start of the round BUT you do have to decide about all modifiers and tradeoffs BEFORE you make your Attack rolls and BEFORE I make any of my ‘reactionary’ rolls (Sense Motive, Toughness, etc… so you can’t Power Attack after I have made my Toughness save, and you can’t decide how much you want to Power Attack after I make a Sense Motive roll).  

Sorry for a total misunderstanding on my part.


----------



## Elric (Aug 23, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Ah see I was answering PART of the question, but not what you were asking  shows me...
> 
> I was saying it was legal for you to use all the Trade-off (All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Power attack, whatever) BUT you were asking could you use them AFTER the Sense Motive roll was know. You don't have to use them at the start of the round BUT you do have to decide about all modifiers and tradeoffs BEFORE you make your Attack rolls and BEFORE I make any of my ‘reactionary’ rolls (Sense Motive, Toughness, etc… so you can’t Power Attack after I have made my Toughness save, and you can’t decide how much you want to Power Attack after I make a Sense Motive roll).
> 
> Sorry for a total misunderstanding on my part.




But the whole point is that Captain Britania is going to Power Attack for more if his Acrobatic Bluff is successful because then he's attacking a surprised Wrecker.  This is perfectly legal.  I said what I was going to do on my standard action attack based on what happened in the move action Acrobatic Bluff that I used before the attack.  If we were in a table-top game, we'd make the rolls sequentially and it could go like this:

"I have Captain Britania Acrobatic Feint Wrecker as a move action"

"I rolled a 16 total, he got a 13.  My next attack on him is a surprise attack so I'm going to attack him Power Attack for 5!"

or 
"I rolled a 16 total, he got a 20.  My next on him isn't a surprise attack so I'm going to attack him and Power Attack for 3."

or "I rolled a 16 total, he got a 20.  Well, that didn't fool him so I'm going to attack someone else instead.  I'm attacking one of the minions behind Wrecker with a shield throw."


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 23, 2007)

I am not sure how one would know if the feint actually worked until they attacked.

When GMing I am not in the habit of telling the Players my rolls. Karl does, but acting on the info is _metagaming _ yes?


----------



## Elric (Aug 23, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> I am not sure how one would know if the feint actually worked until they attacked.
> 
> When GMing I am not in the habit of telling the Players my rolls. Karl does, but acting on the info is _metagaming _ yes?




The first part is definitely an issue- I'm assuming I would know if the feint worked before I attacked, but that might not be a good assumption.  I'm not sure how the second part is relevant to us, since I'll declare all of my actions and contingent actions before Karl ever rolls Sense Motive to oppose my Acrobatics check.

But let's get on with the game- for this round, just have me attack for the round as if the Feint didn't work, as that's the "default" option.


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 23, 2007)

So...that gatling by me and the Captain, no one trashed it, right? If so, would it be possible for Ronin to operate it? If not, guess I'll just go agitate Dr. Banner


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## Elric (Aug 23, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> So...that gatling by me and the Captain, no one trashed it, right? If so, would it be possible for Ronin to operate it? If not, guess I'll just go agitate Dr. Banner




You can probably operate it, but it's facing the wrong direction.  Turning it around might be hard for you.   How much does that gun weigh and are there any restraints to moving it?


----------



## Elric (Aug 24, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Hmm, I like your idea for Movement quite a lot!




I think it is makes much more sense if you have to double-move to go your listed MPH speed.  That way, your listed speed is really your long term sustainable movement speed.  Right now, your listed speed is half of your long term sustainable movement speed.

One other large benefit of doing it that way is that using that house rule Speed 1 is a very useful power to be able to give a character who is faster than an ordinary human, but can't move at superhuman speed.  That's something that is totally missing in the current rules.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 24, 2007)

To what scale is the combat map?


----------



## the_myth (Aug 24, 2007)

The original was 1 square = 25 feet

If you compare them, these closer ones seem to be 1 square = 10 feet.


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## Elric (Aug 24, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> If you compare them, these closer ones seem to be 1 square = 10 feet.




It's 1 square= 10 feet.  Karl mentioned that he was going to create a new map at 1 square= 10 feet in a post before he created the close map but didn't mention it in the post when he created the first close map.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 24, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> So...that gatling by me and the Captain, no one trashed it, right? If so, would it be possible for Ronin to operate it? If not, guess I'll just go agitate Dr. Banner




The wiki Gatling Guns site says that it weighs about 90lbs. I am pretty sure that is without the wooden 'mounting/stand', which I would guess is another 90-100lbs. You would have to pick it up and turn it around to get it facing the right direction. I would guess that it would take about a round to do that with your strength.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 24, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> The first part is definitely an issue- I'm assuming I would know if the feint worked before I attacked, but that might not be a good assumption.  I'm not sure how the second part is relevant to us, since I'll declare all of my actions and contingent actions before Karl ever rolls Sense Motive to oppose my Acrobatics check.
> 
> But let's get on with the game- for this round, just have me attack for the round as if the Feint didn't work, as that's the "default" option.




Yea, sorry. I re-read some of the rules again last night but I could not find anything either way on this. I am kind of following the idea that, before you make your Toughness save, I don't have to tell you what the Damage is, so if you want to spend a HP to re-roll or not etc. I see your point about 'knowing' where or not the Bluff would work... but I still think I am going to error on the side that you have to deside before I roll the Sense Motive check for these sorts of things. Sorry...


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 24, 2007)

Yeah, you don't necessarily know if your opponent is off-guard when you start your strike.  In a RL fight, you might feint and start an attack expecting an opening, only to find that your opponent didn't fall for it.  But it's worth power attacking and hoping that the feint works, IMHO.


----------



## hero4hire (Aug 24, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Yeah, you don't necessarily know if your opponent is off-guard when you start your strike.  In a RL fight, you might feint and start an attack expecting an opening, only to find that your opponent didn't fall for it.  But it's worth power attacking and hoping that the feint works, IMHO.




Yeah IMO knowing how good or bad you rolled for a feint is enough info to decide whether to PA or not. If I roll a 30 I feel pretty confident, a 15 not so much.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 24, 2007)

Just a note, with the house move this weekend I am not sure if I will get to post again until Monday... I will REALLY try but I am not sure about the time and our internet connection


----------



## Elric (Aug 25, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> I see your point about 'knowing' where or not the Bluff would work... but I still think I am going to error on the side that you have to deside before I roll the Sense Motive check for these sorts of things. Sorry...




That's fine- the "knowing whether the bluff would work or not" is the important issue and it's not covered in the rules, so it's your call.  I think I played it differently as GM but that was also a conscious decision on my part.  Also, in the online format it does add more complexity than it would be otherwise, since it entails posting extra contingent actions.

For the game:
Usually there's no way to be instantly dead if you miss a toughness save, as the worst that can happen to you is that you're reduced to dying (and get a Fort save to avoid death).  That applies to minions as well- they're only reduced to dying on a missed save.  Are you having minions (this one and the one Wolverine killed) die in one hit without a Fort save just because they're minions and you're making an exception to that, you forgot that part of the rule, or a conscious massive damage (i.e., fail toughness save by 20+= dead) house rule?

Also, is there a reason the minion hit by the gunfire didn't get a Toughness save?  Did you forget or was it For Dramatic Effect?

Note that minions can't critical hit heroes (page 163)
Personally, in my game I let minions who had Improved Critical once crit on a 20.  So a sword-wielding minion would crit on a 20 alone instead of a 19-20 if he wasn't a minion.  That's why no one messes with ninjas


----------



## Jemal (Aug 26, 2007)

Just as a side note, I personally agree with Elric on the feint thing, but the DM's made his call.  

NOW guys, I have a problem with Wolverine... I'm trying not to piss the Cap off TOO much, but a Raging Wolverint w/Claws is not exactly into taking prisoners.  This could cause a problem when the cap comes over and sees all these dead guys, and I don't want to have any real big inter-party spats... suggestions?


----------



## Redclaw (Aug 26, 2007)

I'm certainly more used to seeing Wolvy use his claws on real opponents, and only his fists against underlings.


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 26, 2007)

Ok, still thinking of using that gatling to take down the Wrecker, or at least piss him off...but seeing as Ronin comes from a background that abhors firearms, I think him firing it seems dumb. So I have come up with...._a plan!_. Use Extra Effort to boost his strength to effectively 21, so max load 920 Lbs. I assume the Gatling weighs around 200-300 lbs, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to lift it. Now the fun part. Since Ronin would like to destroy the gun as well as the Wrecker, he will pick it up and bash him with it. And seeing as the Captain has him distracted, I should be able to hit him from behind. A ninja hurling a Gatling gun out of the shadows is pretty awesome to think about, yeah? Is this possible to do? How much damage does 200-300 Lbs of Gatling gun do from about...10-20 ft away? Would it do more if I just brought it down on his head?


----------



## Elric (Aug 27, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Ok, still thinking of using that gatling to take down the Wrecker, or at least piss him off...but seeing as Ronin comes from a background that abhors firearms, I think him firing it seems dumb. So I have come up with...._a plan!_. Use Extra Effort to boost his strength to effectively 21, so max load 920 Lbs. I assume the Gatling weighs around 200-300 lbs, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to lift it. Now the fun part. Since Ronin would like to destroy the gun as well as the Wrecker, he will pick it up and bash him with it. And seeing as the Captain has him distracted, I should be able to hit him from behind. A ninja hurling a Gatling gun out of the shadows is pretty awesome to think about, yeah? Is this possible to do? How much damage does 200-300 Lbs of Gatling gun do from about...10-20 ft away? Would it do more if I just brought it down on his head?




This would certainly be a cool move, but as the throwing rules are written you probably can't get more than +2 damage above your strength bonus by throwing something.  So even if it did surprise him it probably wouldn't do much.

I suggest using Extra Effort for +2 ranks in your Shuriken Blast power so that it's rank 5, then throwing some shurikens at him in critical places (Power Attack for 5, which you can do since it's temporarily rank 5) and rely on him not seeing you and Master Plan to get a big Autofire (up to +5 extra damage if you hit by 10 or more). 

Note that if you don't Power Attack with the Shurikens you can't get through Wrecker's Impervious at all.  Of course, my plan will almost certainly cause Ronin to be revealed to the Wrecker and open himself to attack and as Wrecker goes immediately after Ronin, you could get hit pretty hard.  But on the other hand, if you land a big hit and stun him then he'll lose his action and Captain Britania will be very thankful


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Aug 27, 2007)

Hmm....I shall try that then, and rely on my good defense and possibly my stealth skill (17+3 master plan, but -20, so I just have to roll high....::hopes::


----------



## Elric (Aug 28, 2007)

Necro- you're welcome 
It will be pretty sweet if you actually take him out of this fight, given the result of the surprise round.  And you thought you wouldn't be able to take on Wrecker

Blind- Thor should have 4 HP, right, since he had to shake off that fatigue from when I had him use Extra Effort?


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 28, 2007)

Sorry again all… I am REALLY swamped right now but I will try and post an update today. The move and work are just pilling it on ALL at once, and I way behind on everything 

Anyway PLEASE be patient. I hate that this is happening RIGHT in the middle of a battle but I will try and get everything resolved as soon as possible.


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 28, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> For the game:
> Usually there's no way to be instantly dead if you miss a toughness save, as the worst that can happen to you is that you're reduced to dying (and get a Fort save to avoid death).  That applies to minions as well- they're only reduced to dying on a missed save.  Are you having minions (this one and the one Wolverine killed) die in one hit without a Fort save just because they're minions and you're making an exception to that, you forgot that part of the rule, or a conscious massive damage (i.e., fail toughness save by 20+= dead) house rule?
> 
> Also, is there a reason the minion hit by the gunfire didn't get a Toughness save?  Did you forget or was it For Dramatic Effect?
> ...





VERY true... and I might edit for Wolverine (or at least roll the CON check)... but yes the cop being Killed was mostly there for Banner to see and get all mad about


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 28, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Black Widow - Uninjured - 2 HP
> 
> (Ranged attack, natural 1: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1228479 ...I'm feeling pretty useless right about now. I don't think I even managed to really do any damage in the first battle, let alone now... :-()




What the radius/range of your Pheremones? I always forgot about those, so it might have an affect...


----------



## Karl Green (Aug 28, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> * [combat]
> Notes for my own info : *Bull-smasher looses dodge bonus, has -2 defense and -4 toughness saves*




Your *Startle* is only for you and only for that ONE attack round (your next Attack), so Bull-Smasher is now only -2 toughness saves. You can re-Startle again, but each time you do he gets +1 to his save to resist it. 
Also, he gets back his Dodge bonus and is not -2 to defense just before your action, so he is back to normal Def when you attack, but a 19 still hits 
Just as an FYI




			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> *OOC:*
> 
> 
> ALso, I assume the Purple dots are the minions, and the Blue ones are our bobbies.. What are those little black specks, and are those Orange dots the guns?[/sblock]











*OOC:*




Purple dots are minions with ‘assault rifles’, and Blue dots are indeed Bobbies. The black dots are dock workers/longshoremen, who only have short clubs for weapons. And yes, finally the Orange dots are the gatline guns.


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## Karl Green (Aug 28, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> _ Extra Effort to up the Shuriken +5 damage, power attack for +5 / -5, and hopefully get some autofire damage.
> Attack = 26!!!!!
> Huzzah! That should add some Autofire damage! Assuming his defense is +6 (-2 def +2 Tough) that makes it +15 damage! HOLY S***. I have to say, I am amazed. DC 30 for the Wrecker!
> 
> ...




NOTE that you can't use Extra Effort on Equipment, so you can't up the Shuriken base damage unless you updated your character AND did not post that over in the Rogues Galley. So my guess is that you still have +3 base damage, with your roll it would be a total of +5, and another +5 for Power-Attack, correct??? Just want to be 100% sure, and if you DID update your character PLEASE post that in the RG cause that is where I look up your characters from...


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## Shayuri (Aug 29, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> What the radius/range of your Pheremones? I always forgot about those, so it might have an affect...




It's only 2 ranks, so I'm pretty sure it's only in her immediate vicinity.

That said, I'm considering spending exp on some expanded 'pheremone' powers...perhaps as AP's. I need some Will save effectors to use on all the brutes we keep fighting.


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## Elric (Aug 29, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> NOTE that you can't use Extra Effort on Equipment, so you can't up the Shuriken base damage unless you updated your character AND did not post that over in the Rogues Galley. So my guess is that you still have +3 base damage, with your roll it would be a total of +5, and another +5 for Power-Attack, correct??? Just want to be 100% sure, and if you DID update your character PLEASE post that in the RG cause that is where I look up your characters from...





Oops.  Sorry, Necro, I totally forgot that when I recommended using Extra Effort (this is my fault!).  This is why devices are so much better than equipment (that plus the plot immunity and extra toughness)!  The plan was so good!  The problem is that Necro couldn't Power Attack for more than 3 (the Shuriken's base damage) without using Extra Effort and Autofire damage doesn't help to go through Impervious, so Wrecker is going to ignore this volley without Extra Effort.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh man, but that was so awesome....guess it is time to just settle down and rework Ronin's weapons as devices. I'll try to have that up by tomorrow night.


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## Jemal (Aug 29, 2007)

I didn't _Startle_ (Which is a feat), I _Demoralized_ (A standard usage of Intimidate).  However, I did forget that he's only stunned till my next round, thus explaining the not loosing dodge bonus.  oh well.


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 29, 2007)

Ronin is now edited and up to date. His equipment is now Devices, and to do so he lost a few feats that seem unnecessary (mostly grappling feats). So now his post works! Huzzah! But hey, please look 'im over because i am prone to making mistakes.


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## Elric (Aug 29, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Ronin is now edited and up to date. His equipment is now Devices, and to do so he lost a few feats that seem unnecessary (mostly grappling feats). So now his post works! Huzzah! But hey, please look 'im over because i am prone to making mistakes.




I think you have 29 feats even though you've only paid for 28.  But if Karl gives us 1 or more pp after this fight, that probably won't matter.  For this fight you can drop... Contacts 

I like the feel of your character with devices.  It says "I'm a legendary swordsman, capable of doing things with my sword that no one else would dare attempt" (like hitting Wrecker over the head with it )

Plus you have Elusive Target, Acrobatic Bluff and Takedown Attack.  I have a soft spot for Acrobatic Bricks (even Acrobatic Weapon Masters )


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## Karl Green (Aug 29, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I didn't _Startle_ (Which is a feat), I _Demoralized_ (A standard usage of Intimidate).  However, I did forget that he's only stunned till my next round, thus explaining the not loosing dodge bonus.  oh well.




Ack my feeble memory! BUT looking up the Skill usage this is a *Standard* action (so with your used Extra Effort to Surge, you would have only gotten 1 attack) and it says that it last for only ONE round...


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## Elric (Aug 29, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Ack my feeble memory! BUT looking up the Skill usage this is a *Standard* action (so with your used Extra Effort to Surge, you would have only gotten 1 attack) and it says that it last for only ONE round...




You can Demoralize as a move action at a -5 penalty, which is what Jemal did.

Edit- I also realized that Thor should be at exactly 5 HP now, which is what Blind has him at, as he should have spent 1 go negate fatigue and got one when Pilecrusher rerolled that attack last round.  So that's not a problem anymore.


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## Karl Green (Aug 29, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> You can Demoralize as a move action at a -5 penalty, which is what Jemal did.
> 
> Edit- I also realized that Thor should be at exactly 5 HP now, which is what Blind has him at, as he should have spent 1 go negate fatigue and got one when Pilecrusher rerolled that attack last round.  So that's not a problem anymore.




Hmm, I have to look at my rule-book when I get home, I did not see that BUT that is totally fine with me... BUT it still says in the skill description that it lasts *1 round*, unless that has been Errata somewhere 

OK update coming soon, I promise!!!


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## Jemal (Aug 29, 2007)

damn, didn't notice the 1 round thing.


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## Karl Green (Aug 30, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> damn, didn't notice the 1 round thing.




True BUT then I rolled a 1 on his Toughness save so


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## Elric (Aug 30, 2007)

Karl- it didn't affect things this round, but shouldn't Wrecker have a Bruise from when Captain Britania hit him last round?

Also, did you roll Sense Motive for Wrecker against Captain Britania's Acrobatic Bluff?  I think my attack would have hit if the feint had worked (as he would lose Dodge bonus and get -2 for surprise), so it wasn't irrelevant even though my attack roll was low.

Edit- everyone note that Master Plan bonuses drop to +2 to attack rolls/checks/skill checks in this round, since Master Plan was activated on the surprise round.  Blind- I think you did this wrong in your recent post, but you'll still hit anyway.

Shayuri, since you've been missing a lot, you might want to attack Pile Crusher, since his Defense is currently 11 and your attack counting Master Plan will be +10


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## Necro_Kinder (Aug 30, 2007)

Does Autofire damage only count for every +2 above your targets _base_ defense? If not, shouldn't the Wrecker have been caught flatfooted making his defense lower? Not like it really matters, it's still only a bruise, but i'd like to know about the Autofire damage thing.


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## Jemal (Aug 30, 2007)

I'm pretty sure autofire is based on how much higher you rolled than what you NEEDED, meaning if something is raising/lowering their defense temporarily, you go by the CURRENT, relevant defense score.


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## Elric (Aug 30, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure autofire is based on how much higher you rolled than what you NEEDED, meaning if something is raising/lowering their defense temporarily, you go by the CURRENT, relevant defense score.




Right.  Necro- you're probably right that you should have had a surprise attack there (unless he has Uncanny Dodge of some kind!) so it should have been 1 higher DC.  Plus he had a Bruise.  But he only missed by 2 (curse those good rolls!)


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## hero4hire (Aug 30, 2007)

sorry RL intervenes I havent forgotten you though

hoping to resolve issue *soon*


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## Karl Green (Aug 31, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Does Autofire damage only count for every +2 above your targets _base_ defense? If not, shouldn't the Wrecker have been caught flatfooted making his defense lower? Not like it really matters, it's still only a bruise, but i'd like to know about the Autofire damage thing.




Yea, my mistake as I was rushing to get done with the post... you should have and you would have done +15 damage. Sorry about that... he still only missed by 3 then. Sorry... my rush, means me make lots of mistakes


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## Karl Green (Aug 31, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Karl- it didn't affect things this round, but shouldn't Wrecker have a Bruise from when Captain Britania hit him last round?
> 
> Also, did you roll Sense Motive for Wrecker against Captain Britania's Acrobatic Bluff?  I think my attack would have hit if the feint had worked (as he would lose Dodge bonus and get -2 for surprise), so it wasn't irrelevant even though my attack roll was low.
> 
> ...




Crap! My mistake there dude... I was in a BIG hurry to post as I had very little time that day (like today ) so I missed those two things... OK SO as I screwed over the Captain, he gets +1 *Hero Point* (just assume I missed my Sense Motive and Re-rolled it). I also forgot that he has 1 bruise from last round, AND flat-footed but then he missed his round by 4, so it is still only 1 more Bruise...

Sorry about that... I have to watch it, especially when I am in a hurry, I try and go off memory instead of re-reading and double checking


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## Elric (Aug 31, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Crap! My mistake there dude... I was in a BIG hurry to post as I had very little time that day (like today ) so I missed those two things... OK SO as I screwed over the Captain, he gets +1 *Hero Point* (just assume I missed my Sense Motive and Re-rolled it). I also forgot that he has 1 bruise from last round, AND flat-footed but then he missed his round by 4, so it is still only 1 more Bruise...
> 
> Sorry about that... I have to watch it, especially when I am in a hurry, I try and go off memory instead of re-reading and double checking




That's fine.  1 HP is a much better outcome than what I would likely have gotten in game.  Honestly, you could just roll the Sense Motive roll now and only give me an HP if he would have needed to reroll (since he'll automatically beat me if he uses an HP for Improved Roll).  I already have 4 HP 

Edit- don't forget about Justice's attack at the end of last round.  Since he was only bruised, he'll get his Blast on Thunderball (18 roll to hit, 10 damage if it hits).

Necro, shouldn't Ronin have 5--> 4 HP now?

Still need actions from Justice, Hulk and Scarlet Witch for the coming round.


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## Karl Green (Aug 31, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> That's fine.  1 HP is a much better outcome than what I would likely have gotten in game.  Honestly, you could just roll the Sense Motive roll now and only give me an HP if he would have needed to reroll (since he'll automatically beat me if he uses an HP for Improved Roll).  I already have 4 HP




Na... you all may NEED them... later 




			
				Elric said:
			
		

> Edit- don't forget about Justice's attack at the end of last round.  Since he was only bruised, he'll get his Blast on Thunderball (18 roll to hit, 10 damage if it hits).
> 
> Necro, shouldn't Ronin have 5--> 4 HP now?
> 
> Still need actions from Justice, Hulk and Scarlet Witch for the coming round.




Yes, I kind of want to wait to see actions from Justice, Hulk and the Witch for Round 3 before I updated the finish of Round 2 BUT I will at least update that with a new post...


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## Elric (Sep 1, 2007)

Hmm- hero4hire hasn't posted and has said he's busy IRL.  Can you just have Hulk (leaping) charge-attack the nearest supervillain if you go to resolve the round and he hasn't posted yet (assuming there's no other reason why you want to pause before you get to him)?


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## hero4hire (Sep 2, 2007)

Had some Computer issues at work and a 2 month old with colic at home. But I think I have resolved the computer issue (fingers crossed)


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## Elric (Sep 2, 2007)

hero4hire said:
			
		

> Had some Computer issues at work and a 2 month old with colic at home. But I think I have resolved the computer issue (fingers crossed)




Lol, there you go and hit Wrecker for 16 damage on the first round as Hulk.  Captain Britania told him he should surrender now that Hulk had emerged for a reason!


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## hero4hire (Sep 2, 2007)

It would be kinda funny if he surrenders and then Hulk lands on him.


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## Elric (Sep 5, 2007)

Calling Karl Green... Hulk can't stay enraged forever


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## hero4hire (Sep 5, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Calling Karl Green... Hulk can't stay enraged forever




Since he hasn't been on since the 31st he must be having some Personal or PC issues.  :\


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## Karl Green (Sep 6, 2007)

Sorry.. I STILL don't have internet at my home AND work is super-duper busy. I just posted Round 3, and I will REALLY try and check in later today and tomorrow. I am super-duper sorry... life blows  cause I am having a really good time with this game and don't want to slow it down as bad as I have been


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## Elric (Sep 6, 2007)

Glad to have you back.  Note that in the core rules being staggered doesn't also add a bruised status, though it would be a totally reasonable house rule to do otherwise.  So Wrecker wouldn't have picked up a bruise from Hulk- he'd just be staggered and stunned.


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## Karl Green (Sep 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Glad to have you back.  Note that in the core rules being staggered doesn't also add a bruised status, though it would be a totally reasonable house rule to do otherwise.  So Wrecker wouldn't have picked up a bruise from Hulk- he'd just be staggered and stunned.




Really? I have to check that tonight... that is the way we have ALWAYS played  but I want to keep the house-rules as low as possible, so I might edit later


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## Karl Green (Sep 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> (OOC: Toughness save 1d20+7= 19.  Staggered and Stunned.  Knocked back like heck.  Karl, where should I end up from where I am?  In the water by the ship?)
> 
> http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1245956.)




Well you have a Knockback resistance of 4 (1/2 your Toughness, with no impervious) soooo 19-4 =15, which on the chart is  50,000 feet!!!!!! That might just be a BIT to much.... so lets say he is knocked into the Thames


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## Elric (Sep 6, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Well you have a Knockback resistance of 4 (1/2 your Toughness, with no impervious) soooo 19-4 =15, which on the chart is  50,000 feet!!!!!! That might just be a BIT to much.... so lets say he is knocked into the Thames




Note that I actually have -5 Knockback due to Steadfast (like the immovable power as a feat) on my shield.  And he only did 16 damage.  So that would only be 2500 feet.  But I still think that's a little much 

Everyone remember that Master Plan bonuses go down to +1 this round.


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## Karl Green (Sep 6, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Note that I actually have -5 Knockback due to Steadfast (like the immovable power as a feat) on my shield.  And he only did 16 damage.  So that would only be 2500 feet.  But I still think that's a little much




Forgot about Steadfast AND I can't count today!!!! I should go back to bed zzzz


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## Redclaw (Sep 7, 2007)

> Thunderball is unhurt and on his feet (with a DEF of 12)



Hey, Karl, did you forget I actually did something useful last round and gave Thunderbutt a bruise?    

And while I'm posting here anyway, how was that for a huge nat 20.  I was about to take a world of damage without a good roll.


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## Karl Green (Sep 7, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Hey, Karl, did you forget I actually did something useful last round and gave Thunderbutt a bruise?
> 
> And while I'm posting here anyway, how was that for a huge nat 20.  I was about to take a world of damage without a good roll.




D'oh, missed that... sorry! Just trying to go to fast     anyway, will edit!

Nat 20's at critical times ARE always the KEWL... I remember the FIRST game on 3.0 D&D we played with the rules were all out, I was playing a 1st lvl Barbarian in *Keep on the Borderland* (the that GM had converted) and we wondered into the cave with the goblins and the Orger... who knocked me to 0-hp first round. Instead of retreating, he raged and I rolled a Nat 20 on my attack roll, followed by another 20, and then almost max damage and killed him. We were pretty much sold on D&D after that


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## Jemal (Sep 7, 2007)

[aside]
Ah, I remember my first Raging Great-axe crit...  "OK, so you deal 10 times the orcs full hitpoints.... He's so dead you don't remember what you were fighting."
Or even better.. Charging smiting mounted Paladin with a Dire lance who crits for max damage.  I did that ONCE.  Unfortunately, my opponent, a blackguard, did pretty much the same thing to me.. minus the crit, but still enough to drop us both.
[/aside]


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## Shayuri (Sep 7, 2007)

Bahahaha

I remember being the unlucky recipient of a greatsword crit from a power attacking Blackguard VAMPIRE who was smiting good.

...it was the only time I died the whole campaign. But it was a -really most distinct- death. 

Say, Jemal...this is on the side, but have you heard from Caros about his Star Wars game? I've bumped both threads now, but he seems to be pretty aggressively ignoring it. Is he intentionally shutting it down, or...or what? I seem to recall you're in it too, and you and he seem to know each other... *shrug*


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## Jemal (Sep 7, 2007)

Aye, we're room-mates.  He's sleeping right now though, I'll ask him when he's up.


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## Shayuri (Sep 8, 2007)

Thanks. Normally I'd just give up, but I really would hate to see that game go if there was any way to avoid it.


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## Redclaw (Sep 9, 2007)

Wow, this is all getting confusing.  Using deflect to counter Thunderball's attacks makes my posts a round off, since he goes before I do.  I think post 133 was my post for Round 2, which means those deflect rolls would have been active for Thunderball's attack in Round 3.  That first roll of 25 would then have deflected the big ball, negating my toughness save and resulting bruise, but that leaves me with a 19 for my deflection (rolled in post 147, during Round 3)against him this round.
I don't know how you want to resolve this, Karl, but I think we should figure something out for it.  I could either take the HP and the bruise back, but probably lose/get them (or worse) this round, or we could switch the rolls, so the 19 was for my deflection attempt in round 3, and the 25 will be for stopping his attack this round.  I'm fine either way.


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## Karl Green (Sep 10, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Wow, this is all getting confusing.  Using deflect to counter Thunderball's attacks makes my posts a round off, since he goes before I do.  I think post 133 was my post for Round 2, which means those deflect rolls would have been active for Thunderball's attack in Round 3.  That first roll of 25 would then have deflected the big ball, negating my toughness save and resulting bruise, but that leaves me with a 19 for my deflection (rolled in post 147, during Round 3)against him this round.
> I don't know how you want to resolve this, Karl, but I think we should figure something out for it.  I could either take the HP and the bruise back, but probably lose/get them (or worse) this round, or we could switch the rolls, so the 19 was for my deflection attempt in round 3, and the 25 will be for stopping his attack this round.  I'm fine either way.




Hmm, let me re-read and think about a bit...


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## Elric (Sep 10, 2007)

We're only missing actions from Hulk and Scarlet Witch, I think.  If they don't post fairly soon, how about resolving the round with Hulk using the same attack combo as last round on the nearest villain who is still up and Scarlet Witch moving closer to the scene again?


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## Karl Green (Sep 10, 2007)

Yep, I will update today... sorry for the delay but I still am without the internet at home... maybe this week... maybe not 

Anyway I will post and update later today for sure...


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## Karl Green (Sep 10, 2007)

Note I am playing a bit lose and fast with the Extra Effort for Thunderball, but if he escapes, I will hand out another *Hp* for that (setup/the villain escapes)... the Wrecker is another story


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## Elric (Sep 10, 2007)

Black Widow should shout something about spotting Thunderball fleeing.  Question: should Wolverine and Widow be able to see Thunderball?  Wolverine has Low-Light Vision and Extended Hearing and Scent (but not vision).  Widow doesn't have any vision special abilities.

Captain Britania has Extended Vision, but he's obviously in no position to see much right now   I hope Wrecker doesn't have a secret "Shark form" he can turn into


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## Karl Green (Sep 10, 2007)

There are some light AND the reason I figured Black Widow would is because she is up on a crate and has a bit of a height advantage is all... and they have pretty good Notice checks also  BUT I will let anyone else also make a roll, with a Notice Check DC25 (the Captain would not be able to though yea, he is below the docks!)


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## Elric (Sep 10, 2007)

Shayuri- couldn't you also take a move action to get closer to Thunderball?  With Speed 1 that would get you 100 feet closer.


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## Shayuri (Sep 10, 2007)

Which would still be -10 to hit. 

Anything over 800', even with the range boost, would be 5 range increments.

And yeah...I want her to shout something, but I want to see the results of her attack before I do.


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## Elric (Sep 10, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Which would still be -10 to hit.
> 
> Anything over 800', even with the range boost, would be 5 range increments.




No, within 200 feet is no penalty.  Then within 400 feet is -2 to hit, within 600 feet is -4 to hit, within 800 feet is -6 to hit, within 1000 feet is -8 to hit.  As he was on the other side of you before he teleported, he's got to be a little under 1100 feet away, so you'd bring him under 1000 feet away and thus only have a -8 to hit.


----------



## Shayuri (Sep 10, 2007)

According to the dark GM text, he was 1000 feet from Black Widow. 

Good point about the penalty though. Means I have an 18 to hit, not a 16.


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## Redclaw (Sep 11, 2007)

If she delays until Justice can help her fly, she can get closer.

**Edit.  Never mind, too late.


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## Elric (Sep 11, 2007)

Myth- Even if you see Wrecker, knowing where Wrecker is as Scarlet Witch can best describe it won't be very useful for most of us since he's underwater so there's no way to pinpoint his location.  But if you can convince Hulk to Shockwave the area where Wrecker is (assuming the shockwave gets deep enough and that there's a good way for Hulk to get back to shore because he'll probably have to land in the water), that might be useful.  But don't hit Captain Britania with the attack


----------



## the_myth (Sep 11, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Myth- Even if you see Wrecker, knowing where Wrecker is as Scarlet Witch can best describe it won't be very useful for most of us since he's underwater so there's no way to pinpoint his location.  But if you can convince Hulk to Shockwave the area where Wrecker is (assuming the shockwave gets deep enough and that there's a good way for Hulk to get back to shore because he'll probably have to land in the water), that might be useful.  But don't hit Captain Britania with the attack





um, what if the Wrecker decides to smash through the dock and take someone down with him?

I'm thinking it's better to know what he's doing than just let him swim away or sneak up on someone.  And if he's escaping, then we can figure out what direction he's going.


----------



## Elric (Sep 11, 2007)

the_myth said:
			
		

> um, what if the Wrecker decides to smash through the dock and take someone down with him?




Oh, I think looking for him is a good idea.  I was referring to this: 







> If I spot him, I will call out his location to anyone nearby who might, you know, wanna smack him or something. ;-)




If he's more than just a little underwater, spotting him won't be that helpful to a lot of us as far as attacking him goes, but Hulk is a specific exception so you should try to get Hulk to Shockwave Wrecker if you can find him.


----------



## Elric (Sep 11, 2007)

Redclaw- maybe Justice can extend his Flight to cover Captain Britania.  Although you might be out of range after your action, so nevermind in that case  

Your movement speed is your speed with a move action.  We seem to be using the approximation 1 mph= 10 feet per round, though as you noted 1 mph= 8.8 feet per round is the exact calculation.  So you can move 1000 feet as a move action.


----------



## Jemal (Sep 11, 2007)

Damn, a thousand feet eh?

SO how far did we figure Hulk could throw me?
Is it Time for a pitch since Hulk can't see Wrecker, and Thunderball's so far away, or should I start banging mook's heads together?


----------



## Shayuri (Sep 11, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Aye, we're room-mates.  He's sleeping right now though, I'll ask him when he's up.




Any news, Jemal? Re: Better Days...Caros' game.


----------



## Jemal (Sep 11, 2007)

last I asked him, he said he's been sick & Busy and will be updating his games 'soon'.
/hijack

And on inspection, It appears Hulk can throw me 2,500'... if he wants.


----------



## Elric (Sep 11, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Damn, a thousand feet eh?
> 
> SO how far did we figure Hulk could throw me?
> Is it Time for a pitch since Hulk can't see Wrecker, and Thunderball's so far away, or should I start banging mook's heads together?




Hulk can throw you 2500 feet, from what I remember.  And that's before he gets really angry, in which case he can throw you almost 10 miles!


----------



## Redclaw (Sep 11, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> Redclaw- maybe Justice can extend his Flight to cover Captain Britania.  Although you might be out of range after your action, so nevermind in that case
> 
> Your movement speed is your speed with a move action.  We seem to be using the approximation 1 mph= 10 feet per round, though as you noted 1 mph= 8.8 feet per round is the exact calculation.  So you can move 1000 feet as a move action.



Thanks for the confirmation, Elric.  I would have tried to bring someone with, but I didn't want to risk him getting away.  I was hoping to suggest delaying to Shayuri so she could fly along with me, but the Widow seemed to manage.


----------



## Shayuri (Sep 11, 2007)

Mew. Er. 

*scribbles 'get Snare or something' on sheet*


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## Karl Green (Sep 11, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Mew. Er.
> 
> *scribbles 'get Snare or something' on sheet*





Alt Powers are cheap


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## Karl Green (Sep 11, 2007)

I know H4H said in the past the Tuesdays are not good for him, so if people want to post for Round 5, please do... I can NPC him for a round


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## hero4hire (Sep 11, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> I know H4H said in the past the Tuesdays are not good for him, so if people want to post for Round 5, please do... I can NPC him for a round




Yes tuesdays are bad. 

Jump in water after wrecker, All-out 5 power attack 5 the wrecker for me please. HP to reroll if need be.

Sorry wish I had time to actually write a post but duty (baby) calls!


----------



## Karl Green (Sep 11, 2007)

OK I have to go back and re-check Hero Points again... if you could post what you THINK you have here...

Also everyone gains +1 XP that you can spend now or save for later. You are going to get a the bulk at the end of the adventure, but if you have something small you want now...


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## Elric (Sep 12, 2007)

OK, now that the fight's over: Karl, you know that Thunderball could have used the long-range version of Teleport as a full-action to go essentially anywhere on Earth (as long as he could perceive the place or was familiar with it), right?  So he could have fled back to their hideout in London, presumably, instead of just 1100 feet away.  Was not having him do that a conscious decision, or did you just forget?


----------



## Karl Green (Sep 12, 2007)

OH I totally know that AND while is is SMART he does not normally use that power AND I don't want all the badguys to always get away  hehe

So yea, I wanted you to have a chance to get him, and next round he was going to use the long range version (as it was to last the rest of the battle)

Thinking about it, I might also have to post a re-cap...


----------



## Karl Green (Sep 12, 2007)

Oh, and you can look at the Wrecking Crew over in the RG if you want. I have ONE more group to post up there that I keep forgetting... but they will not come until later


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## Elric (Sep 12, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> OH I totally know that AND while is is SMART he does not normally use that power AND I don't want all the badguys to always get away  hehe
> 
> So yea, I wanted you to have a chance to get him, and next round he was going to use the long range version (as it was to last the rest of the battle)




By the rules, a power stunt you gain as an instant is one-use only.  See http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=17700&highlight=

However, I think it would be a totally reasonable house rule that if you gain an instant power stunt and don't switch back to another power in the array, you can keep using the power you stunted until you switch to something else.  Otherwise it makes people more reluctant to power stunt instant powers, even though it's often very thematically appropriate.  

For HP: I think Captain Britania has 3 HP.  Do you want us to tell you what we're spending our 1 PP on if we do so?  I might spend it on increasing some of my skills- 1 to Acrobatics, 1 to Diplomacy and 2 to Sense Motive.


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## Karl Green (Sep 12, 2007)

Elric said:
			
		

> By the rules, a power stunt you gain as an instant is one-use only.  See http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=17700&highlight=
> 
> However, I think it would be a totally reasonable house rule that if you gain an instant power stunt and don't switch back to another power in the array, you can keep using the power you stunted until you switch to something else.  Otherwise it makes people more reluctant to power stunt instant powers, even though it's often very thematically appropriate.
> 
> For HP: I think Captain Britania has 3 HP.  Do you want us to tell you what we're spending our 1 PP on if we do so?  I might spend it on increasing some of my skills- 1 to Acrobatics, 1 to Diplomacy and 2 to Sense Motive.




Yes if you are going to spend your XP, please let me know what you are spending it on...

Hmm, yea Teleport is an Instant power, so I guess by the rules it would be that way... I was thinking about Flight, etc which generally would last an encounter and all... hmm. Oh well


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## Karl Green (Sep 12, 2007)

Redclaw said:
			
		

> Justice- Investigate +11 for a 15 .  Ouch, poor roll.  Oh well.




Note that normally you would make a Search roll first to look for the clues and then an Investigate roll to figure out the clues (see M&M pg49) 

Now when you open the crates you will see stuff that I will describe in the IC (no Search roll required), but you will want to also "look for any clues" to use your Investigate with


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## Karl Green (Sep 12, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> "Give me a few minutes with them," Black Widow suggests with a sultry smile.
> 
> "I will have them telling everything they know."
> 
> Despite the seemingly sinister tone of her words, those on the team know what she's talking about. Her pheromones tend to have men eating out of her hand...sooner or later.




If you want to make any type of Roll for Black Widow you can... depending on what you might want to try...


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## Shayuri (Sep 12, 2007)

Yar...I wasn't sure how it worked...

Will save DC is only 12 though, so even mooks probably have a good chance to resist.

I'll use some sosh skills to help it along.


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## Karl Green (Sep 12, 2007)

Ah, I see what you were thinking, but you can also use Intimidate to try and Interrogate any of them also


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## Redclaw (Sep 12, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Note that normally you would make a Search roll first to look for the clues and then an Investigate roll to figure out the clues (see M&M pg49)
> 
> Now when you open the crates you will see stuff that I will describe in the IC (no Search roll required), but you will want to also "look for any clues" to use your Investigate with



That makes sense.  I hadn't looked closely enough at the skill description.  I'll edit my post with the search roll.


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## Jemal (Sep 13, 2007)

Somebody say 'interrogate'? *snik*


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## Karl Green (Sep 13, 2007)

I want you guys to role-play it and roll it out, depending on what questions you want to ask, whom you are going to talk with, etc. If you want to interrogate, needs some rolls vs. who-ever 
Inspector Kastle did mention that a few of the thugs might have gotten away also. All up to you, but I will hold off a bit more to see what people are doing before moving it along.


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## hero4hire (Sep 13, 2007)

Karl
I think you may have to have Hulk dissappear in the drink as well.

Scheduling wise I am having trouble attending to the games I GM as well as play so in the end I think I should cut out the ones that would suffer the least from my leaving.

Since I already  have not been giving this game the attention it deserves, and you have a massive amount of players Avengers is my logical choice.


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## Karl Green (Sep 14, 2007)

Thats' a big bummer BUT I totally 100% understand. Thanks for letting me know...

I will NPC the Hulk for a little while... at least until the fight with the Masters of Evil in a few days


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## Blind Azathoth (Sep 14, 2007)

If you'd like, Thor could amble on over and help with the interrogation. He's a bit bigger than Wolverine. 

Also, if Thor were to be told the name Laufeyson, to what extent would he recognize it? If nothing else, I think Dr. Donald Blake might know the name from his studies of cultures past.


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## Karl Green (Sep 14, 2007)

Blind Azathoth said:
			
		

> Also, if Thor were to be told the name Laufeyson, to what extent would he recognize it? If nothing else, I think Dr. Donald Blake might know the name from his studies of cultures past.




He would know whatever you think he would know  i.e. I am pretty sure Thor would know, and Dr. Black could make a Knowledge/History DC20 to know what's what (wink, wink)


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## Karl Green (Sep 19, 2007)

Sorry I am quite again... update later today but I have to run right now... darn I can't wait until I get the internet back at home


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## Karl Green (Sep 19, 2007)

Grr, me spell bad... I meant QUIET    

OK just a bit more time, then update


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## demongg (Sep 21, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> Thats' a big bummer BUT I totally 100% understand. Thanks for letting me know...
> 
> I will NPC the Hulk for a little while... at least until the fight with the Masters of Evil in a few days






Hey Karl...  would I be able to "take over" playing Mr. Hulk?
Let me know.  If so I'll put this thread on my daily check list.

thanks
-kev-


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## Karl Green (Sep 21, 2007)

demongg said:
			
		

> Hey Karl...  would I be able to "take over" playing Mr. Hulk?
> Let me know.  If so I'll put this thread on my daily check list.
> 
> thanks
> -kev-




hehe sure that would be cool if you want to take over the Hulk I would be happy with that. You can re-make him if you want or use the one H4H made in the Rouge Gallery.


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## demongg (Sep 22, 2007)

Karl Green said:
			
		

> hehe sure that would be cool if you want to take over the Hulk I would be happy with that. You can re-make him if you want or use the one H4H made in the Rouge Gallery.






Depends on if we get this campaign going in Real Life.  I don't want to read your story fully in case you ever run it for the group.  


-kev-


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## Jemal (Sep 23, 2007)

Many apologies for my unscheduled dissapearance, I was only supposed to be gone for a day or two but couldn't get back until now.


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## Karl Green (Sep 24, 2007)

That's cool... I still don't have ANY email access on the weekends, so I can only post on the weekdays right now


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## Karl Green (Sep 27, 2007)

OK, I am not sure what to bump to move you guys along... you have some clues and options but I am not sure what people want to do next... 

Sooooooo questions here maybe? Want to head to the lighthouse? Want to check out the ship? What to stake out the wood mill? Have any other questions for Inspector Kastle or the Weckers?


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## Shayuri (Sep 27, 2007)

I figure we need to split up...some of us stake out the mill, some the lighthouse.

The hope is that Wrecker knows more about what's going on and why. Or can point us to someone who does.


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## Elric (Oct 5, 2007)

Karl?  Calling Karl.


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## Jemal (Oct 18, 2007)

Damn, looks like Karl's been AWOL almost as long as I was... Guess we'll give this one more bump to let him know we're still interested before it sinks to the cold murky depths of PBP.


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## demongg (Nov 6, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Damn, looks like Karl's been AWOL almost as long as I was... Guess we'll give this one more bump to let him know we're still interested before it sinks to the cold murky depths of PBP.







I know Karl's been really busy.  He's a friend of mine here in Seattle.  I restarted my live table top RPG of this campaign recently, and though he really wants to play - he can't.

Just an FYI
-kev-


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