# OOC - Graverended Grimoire (House Millithor in the City of the Spider Queen V)



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

I am now taking over Endur's four-part game, a year after the Graverending.  All characters are now effectively 20th level (or a smidge above), and will be going on to bigger and badder things.  

In Character Thread 
Rogue's Gallery Thread 

*Our Underdark Army*
_Brother Shatterstone_ - *Kilcif the Chosen* - CE Male Bugbear Humanoid 3/Barbarian 2/ Ranger 2/ Rogue 4/ Forbidden Warrior 5 
_Xael_ - *Quertus Millithor* - LE Male Drow Wizard 16/ Archmage 2
_Seonaid_ - *Narcelia Millithor* - CE Female Drow Cleric 18
_Dalamar_ - *Torellan Millithor* - CE Male Vampire Drow Psychic Warrior 10
_Pyrex_ - *Carcelon Millithor* - CE Female Drow Cleric 17/ Heirophant 1
_Paxus Asclepius_ - *Tierak Morcane* - CE Female Drow Cleric6/Arachne7/Thaumaturge5
_Uriel_ - *Eol Sarenlu* - CE Male Drow Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 8/Master Thrower 5
_Serpenteye_ - *Teliek Ximeres* - LE Male Human Sorcerer 6/ Incanatar 9/ Archmage 5

*Character Information:*  20th level, 3.5 rules, 32 point buy.  Standard 20th level wealth of 760,000gp.  Books allowed are all core, all splatbooks, FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Faiths and Pantheons, Races of Faerun, Underdark, Unapproachable East, Silver Marches, Silver Marches Web Enhancement, Lords of Darkness, Monsters of Faerun, Savage Species, Arms and Equipment Guide, Expanded Psionic Handbook, Mindscapes, and Dragon #277-#319.  In addition, everyone gets a free bonus regional feat of their choosing.   

*Policy for all my games:*  If someone doesn't post for over three days and they are holding up the game because of it, I will NPC your player until you return (and you can immediately take up the reins agan). Absence for two weeks without prior notice means I bring in an alternate to take over your character (and they are allowed to make changes to them) or I bring in an entirely new player and character. 

If we're in a closed environment and someone wants to bring in a new character, I reserve the right to have your character wander off, lose interest, take a new job, switch sides, or even kill them in order to keep the game moving. I do not want to have to play three abandoned PCs, so I will probably find a way to remove them from the party at the first available opportunity. 

Please, please, please e-mail me if you realize you haven't posted in several days and real life is keeping you busy. I'd rather know that someone has had a hectic day at work than they found my game boring and quit. And if you find my games boring or confusing, please e-mail me to express your concerns. I'd hate for anyone to be bored playing my games.

*Playing cohorts, familiars, and mounts:*  I was going to step in and help people play their cohorts, but as now we have about as many if not more cohorts than people, this will not be the case.  You will all be responsible for playing your own lackeys, aside from those that I have personally made.

*Combat:*  In combat everyone must put their AC, saves (along with conditional modifiers), attack bonuses, damage bonuses, current hit points out of max, immunities and resistances, and anything else you think would be useful _at the end of every combat post_.  With 20th level characters I am not going to flip back and forth through everyone's sheet hunting up that information.  If you want to make my job even easier, use this link:  http://www14.brinkster.com/nadaka/DiceBoxDB.asp
You can roll your own attack and damage.  Click on "add roll to database," enter in the appropriate numbers, and then post the number as a link back to the results page.  If you have fighting cohorts or what-have-you, you're responsible for their stats as well.  

*Beginning this campaign:*  With a total of 11 games (not including this one) that I am running on this board and another, I do not have the time to read the entirity of the old thread.  Nor do I think I have the time or energy for this group to fission off into eight separate groups because of differences.  Two or three, possibly, one for each, no.  So I'm going to need you guys to work together on this.  I don't want to railroad people, but I don't want to have to gently entice everyone either.  Ok?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

red 2 checking in.


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## Dalamar (May 20, 2004)

So Quertus casts a _disintegrate_ to Torellan's new Ring of Counterspells, doesn't he? We wouldn't like if he suddenly started feeling weak, would we.


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## Serpenteye (May 20, 2004)

I'm going to be out of town for a few days, and won't have access to the internet.


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

I'm here.  Ready to begin, but I'll be out-of-town Fri-Sun.


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## Seonaid (May 20, 2004)

Checkin' in. I'll have Narcelia up soon (I hope).


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## Seonaid (May 20, 2004)

Does Narcelia get a scourge to replace the one she lost? If so, does it still have 2 heads, or does she gain/lose any? Have Narcelia or Carcelon (or both) been shown unusual favor by Lolth? What is the Morcane relationship to the Millithors?


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## Seonaid (May 20, 2004)

Does Narcelia get a replacement House Insignia, and if so, how much will that cost her? (Endur gave each of the PC's a house insignia, which has levitate 3/day and message 3/day.)


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Seonaid, holy cow, girl!  So some mercy! 

Isida, hey I just shot you an email...    (Yeah, I know I'm very merciful either.)


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Does Narcelia get a scourge to replace the one she lost? If so, does it still have 2 heads, or does she gain/lose any? Have Narcelia or Carcelon (or both) been shown unusual favor by Lolth? What is the Morcane relationship to the Millithors?



     Unusual favor... yes.  Morcane, I don't know what that is, I haven't gotten to that part yet.  Drow house insignia is a go.  Will check on price later.

What I really need from everyone is a 1-page summary of your character's history.  I first off need your name, race, alignment, classes and level (all the normal stuff).  I need a brief history of what you've been doing in the game, (from all four chapters of it), as well as what you did in Endur's transition post.  I also need to know what your character is doing right now, one year from the day of the Graverending.  I want to know your relationships to the other characters, as well as any home bases, cohorts, lackeys, contacts, or slaves you might have.  I also want to know the highlights of any _major_ enemies you fought and the outcome of those fights (in general).  This does not need to be, and in fact should _not_ be, an epic novel.  If you can summarize a fight or relationship in one sentence, please do.

This is a huge game I have not been following, and with nine PbP games of my own, as well as three that I'm playing in, I need your assistance to set the stage for myself.  While I might use some of Endur's villains, please do not expect a lot of the same political connections and characters to show up.  It will be much easier for me if I can do my own plot and use most of my own NPCs, as at least I can keep those straight in my head.  Thanks much.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

*Character Name:* Kilcif  “the Cunning”
*Character Race:* Bugbear
*Character Classes:* Humanoid 3/Barbarian 4/Ranger 4/ Rogue 5 (Class are in flux)
*Alignment:* Chaotic Evil
*Deity:* Hruggek

I'm not certain if it will be helpful but since you asked for a page call it filler.   (There are some hooks in there but mostly for the surface world.)



			
				The History of Kilcif said:
			
		

> *Background:*
> Kilcif the Cunning is a very dangerous individual that makes his living with his weapons prowess, wits, and skills.  Even those in need of his unique services find him hard to deal with as his not someone anyone would hire based upon his personality as he’s a very gruff, ill tempered, cruel and borderline sadistic.  Even with is bad attitude his wide range of skills, he has been hired from everything from bounty hunting and assassination to thievery and dungeon crawls, have brought him many coins and even some fame over his career.  Kilcif's cete, a bugbear tribe or clan, is long dead and forgotten cause they harassed there neighbors one to many times.  Its been rumored that Kilcif sold his cete location to the highest bidder, and while this is speculation as no one knows for sure besides Kilcif and he never talks about it is quite possible true as his fellow race despises him from some unspoken ill and his greed for coins is legendary, even for a bugbear.  Even as the last member of his cete, Kilcif has dumped his tribal name in favor of his self-appointed nickname Kilcif “The Cunning”.
> 
> If the above example shows Kilcif instincts for survival, cunning, and skills it also shows a “man” of few allies and hundreds of enemies.  Even with his more regular and powerful customers Kilcif would be hard pressed to be able to consider them allies an any “favors” asked would not be welcome and their “friendship” would not come freely or cheaply.  Primarily among these customers are Klauth, whom Kilcif has done egg snatches for, and Laral of Mantol Derith, who he hunted down people in debt or people who have offended him in general.  The only ally that Kilcif truly has is a small nomadic tribe of humans that makes its home the Evermoors and the hills in the area west of it.  He saved this tribe’s livestock from a savage and  especially  organized pack of ogres.  Though he was paid, and paid well, the tribe considers him a tribe hero and tribe member.  This does nothing but baffle him.  This hero warship leave a bad taste in the back of Kilcif mouth as he doesn’t like anyone to depend upon him nor does he like anyone to depend upon him.  Also this hero warship had down nothing to promote goodness or love to Kilcif as he finds their friendship and their adoration to be a major annoyance and he’s unlikely to ever go there again yet alone ask the for a favor.  Kilcif is a complete loner that considers no one his friend and trusts no one but part of his payment for his actions was a young maiden from the tribe, not that unusual for the tribe that is accustomed to given their daughters away as they can lead to a high population that can’t be supported.  Kilcif was baffled by this act but was unable to give up Airezil, the young maiden, because of his greedy nature.  Though Kilcif treats her poorly Airezil is completely loyal to Kilcif finding her appointment to be one of importance and honor.  Airezil might be Kilcif only true friend in the world, though he finds even the thought of friendship to be one of annoyance.  Usually when staying in towns for long periods of time Kilcif will find a job for Airezil.  From bar wench to ditch digger she has done everything and anything that will make Kilcif a few coppers richer.  Though he usually tries to find a place her at a place that her attractiveness can lead to more money, such as a tavern where the tips can add up quickly.  Airezil find nothing wrong with this and is a diligent worker at whatever is asked of her.
> ...





*Home Base:* none, constantly on the move.
*cohorts:* none, at least none at the time of death.
*lackeys:* none, at least none at the time of death.
*contracts* Simply put wanted by mainly.  (Previous History has one or two.) Wanted by Laral of Skullport for robbery, Crown Prince of the Duergar robbery.  (Did with House Millithor)
*Slaves:* Airezil, left in Skullpoint, presumed dead or wishing she was.   (A young pretty human from a barbarian tribe, never stated out, history is included in the above quote.)
*Endur's transition post:* not mentioned, dead, presumably raping and pillage his way through the afterlife.
*one year from the day of the Graverending* Hopefuly reincarnation though this could have happened sometime before hand.  (Which ever works best.)
*relationships to the other characters* none with House Morcane.  Hired bodyguard for house Millithor.  Things of note: Saved Carcelon life, once or twice.  Dressed Narcelia in magical gear after her surprised return.  And rightfully assumes that House Millithor owns him money for his work and of course repayment for the above favors and for his lost slave.

*Chapter 1* Kilcif joined up with House Millithor robbing the above-mentioned prince of the Duergar, and making his former employer Laral look stupid in the progress.  (Laral might be dead)

*Chapter 2-4*
For the rest of the game he kept close to the Matron, looked intimidating and broke people and things. (Never knew of the silence of Lolth until about 20 seconds before his death.

Honestly, I think all know enemies besides the above-mentioned prince are dead.  Maybe the others will remember facts that I don't and I will look back when I get more time.  Kilcif was always a background character and never really spoke much or stuff as it simply wasn't his place to do so...  Obviously allot has changed in a year so it should be interesting.


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

The house insignia cast Message 3/day and Levitate 3/day both at Caster Level 3.

Accd to the DMG it's worth 9900gp.


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## Endur (May 20, 2004)

I think quite a few of Kilcif's enemies are "undead", not dead. 

Laral is also still among the living.  



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Honestly, I think all know enemies besides the above-mentioned prince are dead


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## Seonaid (May 20, 2004)

Pyrex, how do you think we should set up the House? Narcelia, of course, would be more than willing to do it all herself, but I think we should plan it together. Should we re-establish ourselves at home? What did the Millithors do before the Silence?

Isida: Morcane is another drow House, most of whom are dead. PA is playing Tierak (who is 5'3" and 108 pounds, whoa! ), a cleric of the House.

For that matter, how should we work the inter-House relationship, PA and Pyrex?

Edit: You all can weigh in on this, since it's a group effort.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Endur said:
			
		

> I think quite a few of Kilcif's enemies are "undead", not dead.




Hardy Har Har, I meant as in a continued existence...  



			
				Endur said:
			
		

> Laral is also still among the living.




Cool I knew his place went up in smoke but I couldn't remember if he was among it.




			
				Seonaid said:
			
		

> Edit: You all can weigh in on this, since it's a group effort.




I think Tierak should get to go first consider how much she weighs...


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Cool I knew his place went up in smoke but I couldn't remember if he was among it.



He sent the Devil-lawyer, remember?


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Pyrex, how do you think we should set up the House? Narcelia, of course, would be more than willing to do it all herself, but I think we should plan it together. Should we re-establish ourselves at home? What did the Millithors do before the Silence?




That's a very good question.  ATM, Narcelia holds the title of Matron Millithor and Tierak holds the title of Matron Morcane, but where the game ended those titles are pretty meaningless.

One or both of you might consider taking the 'Landlord' and/or 'Leadership' feats and using them to reestablish the house.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> He sent the Devil-lawyer, remember?



Obviously not... 



			
				Pyrex said:
			
		

> One or both of you might consider taking the 'Landlord' and/or 'Leadership' feats and using them to reestablish the house.




You know you could always sneak in and take it also, as it would be pretty interesting to see how Carcelon and Narcelia interact cause of that...


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 20, 2004)

We're easily powerful enough to rebuild the houses without those feats; particularly Tierak, who has ready access to Limited Wishes and the possible use of a one-time Wish via sacrifices.  I'd imagine that the two houses would remain separate, but allied; it's also possible that the younger of the Millithor daughters would split off and form her own house.  If no other loyal clerics of power remain in Mezoberranzan, but there's even a fraction of a surviving population, we could simply move in, sacrifice any treacherous or competitive priestesses, and declare ourselves the ruling triumvirate of the city, install Quertus as head of the wizard's college, Torellan head of Melee Magthere, etc.  Or, we could found a new city, using magic in abundance to manufacture it, and draw in only the best and brightest of drow, plus enough commoners and goblinoids for the scutwork.


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> One or both of you might consider taking the 'Landlord' and/or 'Leadership' feats and using them to reestablish the house.



Or you could just ask Quertus to cast _Wall of Stone_, (_Greater_) _Stone Shape_, _Fabricate_, _Disintegrate_, _Phase Door_, etc. gazillion times and build a fortress. 

Besides, who would sponsor us?


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> If no other loyal clerics of power remain in Mezoberranzan, but there's even a fraction of a surviving population, we could simply move in, sacrifice any treacherous or competitive priestesses, and declare ourselves the ruling triumvirate of the city, install Quertus as head of the wizard's college, Torellan head of Melee Magthere, etc. Or, we could found a new city, using magic in abundance to manufacture it, and draw in only the best and brightest of drow, plus enough commoners and goblinoids for the scutwork.



Gromph Baenre, the Archmage of Menzoberranzan is 25th level. I'd rather not mess with him. Seriously.

We could easily start (or take over) another city, at least Maerimyda, Szith Morcane, and Ched Nasad are in ruins. Quertus has _Mass Charm Monster_ (and Torellan has Dominate), so creating an army of goblinoids etc. shouldn't be a problem.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

On a side note...  I'm sort of trying to come up with a vow feat that makes sense for a race better known for it's greed.  I can honestly say I'm not having any luck so if someone has an idea(s) I would be happy to hear it/them.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

Oi... Well, if it comes to taking over a whole freaking city...  Bust out the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook and play along with it if you're going to build some kind of home base.  :O


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> You know you could always sneak in and take it also, as it would be pretty interesting to see how Carcelon and Narcelia interact cause of that...






			
				Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> ...it's also possible that the younger of the Millithor daughters would split off and form her own house...




I've been considering both of those options, but it really would depend on what we decide happened over the past year as well as where we decide we want the game to go.


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Oi... Well, if it comes to taking over a whole freaking city... Bust out the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook and play along with it if you're going to build some kind of home base. :O



No money, no base. Well, I've got about 1,000gp. So I guess the mega-base-of-doom must wait. We've got _Mordenkainen's Magnificient Mansion_ though.

But I just love SBG, I've got so many ideas...

So, how much discount does charming few hundred (or thousand) goblinoids/whatever as workers get me?  

And then we just buy/make a _Lyre of Building_...


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> I've been considering both of those options, but it really would depend on what we decide happened over the past year as well as where we decide we want the game to go.



Good, to be honest I can see little reason to stick around.  The original houses are ruined and it would be just as easy to start a new, as it would be to rebuild the old...  So why hide in your sister's shadow?


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Good, to be honest I can see little reason to stick around. The original houses are ruined and it would be just as easy to start a new, as it would be to rebuild the old... So why hide in your sister's shadow?



Yup. 4 persons left from house Millithor, and Tierak left from house Morcane. Neither really sounds like a "house" anymore.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Yup. 4 persons left from house Millithor, and Tierak left from house Morcane. Neither really sounds like a "house" anymore.




To be honest I think the "houses" should be in hiding... I'm sure this is more than as few drow hoses that would love to finish them off.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 20, 2004)

If Gromph and the other Baenres are still around, they'd be formidable opponents.  If they're either dead, scattered, or disloyal, they'll fall more readily; no matter how powerful Gromph is, if we catch him off-guard, the group as a whole will destroy him.


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

There may be, but after the revolt they're not necessarily going to be capable of doing so.  I doubt Lolth has that many priestesses capable of casting 9th level spells, and we are three of them.

Before we put too much effort into what happened, Isida, could you give us some info on where you want to take the game?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> There may be, but after the revolt they're not necessarily going to be capable of doing so.  I doubt Lolth has that many priestesses capable of casting 9th level spells, and we are three of them.




I would never assume that we are the most powerful characters on the block...  and I would never assume that a race as powerful as the drow would lose that many clerics.  You former enemies would be without a doubt still capable of great harm.  Of course they probably have issues, like there own houses being in disarray, that they will need to deal with.


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## Endur (May 20, 2004)

I think you can safely assume that the high level NPCs in Menzoberanzan are far more powerful than the PCs.  Just as the PCs have grown in power with Lolth's return, so have the House Baenre NPCs (only moreso).

Although the drow in Menzoberzan are far less numerous than they once were.


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> ...no matter how powerful Gromph is, if we catch him off-guard, the group as a whole will destroy him.



He's a Diviner (according to some sourcebook).  And I seriously doubt that we'd beat him anyway. Besides, we have really no reason to attack him. The city is still half-full of Duergar and Fiends.



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I would never assume that we are the most powerful characters on the block...



I'll second this.


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

I didn't mean to imply that we were the most powerful characters in the area, but I do believe that we've entered the area of being major players in the local scene.

Given the state of affairs in Menzoberranzan I doubt any of the major houses would currently see the benefit of devoting enough resources to take us out.


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> ...and I would never assume that a race as powerful as the drow would lose that many clerics...




There seems to be a significant disparity in world-view here that we should probably get Isida to chime in on.   

What percentage of the worlds population is ECL 10+?  20+?

What is the current population of Menzoberranzan?
-> How many of them are ECL 10+?  20+?

I realize that there are always more powerful individuals out there, but most of the games I've played in assume an exponentially smaller number of higher-level characters.

Example:  One of the 2E source books (don't remember which) stated that only 1% of the worlds population had levels in a PC class and that there were about half as many Lvl N pc's as Lvl N-1 pc's.
i.e:
1 in 100 people is lvl 1.  
1 in 1600 people is lvl 5.
1 in 1/2 Million people is lvl 10.
1 in 1/2 Billion peopl is lvl 20.

FR obviously doesn't follow anything near that distribution, but I am curious as to just how many high-level (N)PC's there are in the world.


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> FR obviously doesn't follow anything near that distribution...



Yes.



> ...but I am curious as to just how many high-level (N)PC's there are in the world.



Many. You don't want to know about the City of Shade. Many 30+ casters. Floating city created with an epic spell with DC of 280. Need I go on?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> FR obviously doesn't follow anything near that distribution, but I am curious as to just how many high-level (N)PC's there are in the world.



No, you don’t...  Trust me there is a ton of them...  The ELH is full of FR characters that are insanely high levels, Mystra has like 9 chosen all of them epic in nature, every deity has at least one chosen, or at least has the option, but its commonly believed that there is more than just the 'few" that WotC has released.

Waterdeep is a million souls and probably has at least 6 epic level NPCs...  (so that shows you how much has changed since 1st edition.  Which is fine by me, I never liked not having maxed hit points on first level.

Besides it would be fun for a little to torture the weak but every group has to have someone capable of taking them out or the fun would end much to quickly.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Need I go on?



Nope, I think I got it.


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## Dalamar (May 20, 2004)

According to the DMG, a Metropolis (population 25,000 or more), has an absolute minimum of 64 characters which are an absolute minimum of 13th level. Of these, four are commoners of 16th level minimum (max level for these four is 26), four are adepts (min 13, max 18), four are aristocrats (min 13, max 16), four are experts (min 15, max 24) and four warriors (min 14, max 24). The rest are PC classes with a minimum level of 13 and a max of 20 (varies for each class). Each of these has two characters of half their level, which both have two characters half their level, and so on until you get the number of 1st level characters of that class (except for NPC classes, which have a set percentage of the population that aren't 'spent' on the other classed characters).


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## Xael (May 20, 2004)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> According to the DMG, blah, blah...



And Wizards are twice as common in FR.

And we're not even talking about Halruaa or Thay here. Mmm... Halruaa... The world of walking spellbooks...


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## Dalamar (May 20, 2004)

A not-so-quick calculation tells us that a Metropolis has a minimum of 480 characters of above 1st level. (of which 60 are commoners, btw)


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

So (accd to Dalamar's numbers) roughly 0.2% of the population is ECL 13+.

If we estimate the current Drow population of Menzoberranzan at a quarter-million there should be around 500 ECL 13+ Drow.

Assuming an even distribution from 13 to 23 makes 150 ECL 20+ Drow in town. 

Wow.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> And Wizards are twice as common in FR.




yeah they’re little more than jackrabbits...


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## Dalamar (May 20, 2004)

And a sizable chunk of those are commoners and experts


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

Well, this is indeed FR, and there tend to be a lot of wizards, clerics, and other high level characters.  I would assume among the drow this would be moreso.  

At any rate, this is kind of the general outline of the game:  Lolth is back, the drow are slowly stabilizing, and now people need to get to the root of the matter.

Lolth's silence (and exactly what happened, I'm not saying yet) caused a huge uproar in the Outer Planes, and now there is a great deal of scrambling about, trying to either arrest possible shifts in power, or push them in favor of one faction or another.  This has a big impact the the worshippers of the deities that are looking to grab what they can for themselves.

So, there's going to be a mission, a mission to wrest power to your own gods... or for yourself...

How does that sound?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> How does that sound?




Like a back stabbing good time…


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## Dalamar (May 20, 2004)

Okay... I just checked the Epic-level Handbook... If we use the table there (which is listed as replacing the one in the DMG for epic campaigns), the lowest level of everybody in a Metropolis increases by 4. And then there's a planar metropolis (population of over 100,000) which has a minimum of 96 characters of at least 21st level. I'll work another counting, using the averages for a normal and a planar metropolis using the table in the ELH.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

So, _let's get rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrready to ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuumble!!!!_

~~~~

Aka, I still need every else's concensed info.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Aka, I still need every else's concensed info.



I take it mine was good then?    

I'm still brain dead on that vow...  :\


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

Yes Bro, your info was good.

As for the vow, I have some suggestions:

Vow of Courage - Never backs down from a fight, once they fight they never flee.  In return gain DR 1/-.  If they flee, they must receive atonement spell before can regain benefit again.

Vow of Greed - Must always maintain wealth equal to 20% more than a normal character of their level, and never, ever give anything away without payment.  In return they gain +5 to Spot and Listen checks and can _see invisiblily_ 1/day (better to spot thieves).


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> As for the vow, I have some suggestions:




Sweet. 



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Vow of Courage - Never backs down from a fight, once they fight they never flee.  In return gain DR 1/-.  If they flee, they must receive atonement spell before can regain benefit again.




Hmmm I like that one, but atonement would be nearly impossble as I don't see any cleric of Hruggek...  



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Vow of Greed - Must always maintain wealth equal to 20% more than a normal character of their level, and never, ever give anything away without payment.  In return they gain +5 to Spot and Listen checks and can _see invisiblily_ 1/day (better to spot thieves).



This would be perfect but I'm sort of confused on how someone would maintain the 20% more wealth…  As in hand or what?


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## Uriel (May 20, 2004)

*Cough,hack...*
Getting over a nasty spell of sickness (I missed my Fort save by _that much_...).

A couple of questions.

Can I take Leadership? 

For a Half Fiend <ECL+4>, do you allow (as some DMs have) a reduction in ECL <to +3> for a non winged version?
Either way is cool.

Can I ride the Tarrasque?


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## Endur (May 20, 2004)

What is the current population of Menzoberranzan?  I'm vague on the answer for this, but I can tell you that Menzo should have survived the War of the Spider Queen (including Groomph).  The actual answer is in book six of the War of the Spider Queen (which will be published this fall? next spring?).

Example:  One of the 2E source books (don't remember which) stated that only 1% of the worlds population had levels in a PC class and that there were about half as many Lvl N pc's as Lvl N-1 pc's.
i.e:
1 in 100 people is lvl 1.  
1 in 1600 people is lvl 5.
1 in 1/2 Million people is lvl 10.
1 in 1/2 Billion peopl is lvl 20.

The sources are conflicted on levels for NPCs.  The 1e DMG sort of followed this, but not quite.  It said to assume that 1 in 100 people might be interested in becoming an adventuring cohort.  However, my recollection is that that didn't include people with PC levels who weren't interested in adventuring.

Also, how do you handle bugbears, giants, etc. who have hit dice instead of levels?  Its obviously up to the new GM, but I think you have to assume that the real level progression does not follow geometric progression.  I think the 3.5e formula works well, with Menzo and other Underdark cities having special modifiers because of their epic nature.  A gm could make a reasonable assumption that in a city like Menzo, the goblinoid slaves have the NPC classes and that all Drow have PC classes.

The Forgotten Realms is so full of epic level wizards that they didn't even bother to describe epic level fighters in the ELH.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

As in you must possess that much.  Not necessarily at hand, but you must know it is yours and no one else's.  As keeping it too far away could result it getting it stolen and thus loosing the feat, it might be easier to keep it in the form of jewelry, magic items, or extravagent arms and armor.


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## Dalamar (May 20, 2004)

An ELH table-using metropolis has (with minimum population to count as a metropolis) 3,82% of its population over 1st level, and 12 characters over 20th level (all NPC classes, btw) on average rolls.

A Planar Metropolis (population ~100,000) has 1,44% of its population over 1st level, and 96 characters of over 20th level (six members of each class) on average rolls.

If I feel really bored, I'll expand the table to see the numbers for a Planar Metropolis that has the highest possible level of characters for each class (highest possible by random determination, that is).


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

Uriel said:
			
		

> *Cough,hack...*
> Getting over a nasty spell of sickness (I missed my Fort save by _that much_...).
> 
> A couple of questions.
> ...



  Yes.  But I make your cohort, though you may certainly suggest race and class and other stuff.



> For a Half Fiend <ECL+4>, do you allow (as some DMs have) a reduction in ECL <to +3> for a non winged version?
> Either way is cool.



  That's cool



> Can I ride the Tarrasque?



  No.  _I_ may ride the Tarrasque, but _you_ may not.


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> So, there's going to be a mission, a mission to wrest power to your own gods... or for yourself...
> 
> How does that sound?




Sounds good.

I'm currently looking at three different ways Carcelon could have spent the last year, what do you all think?

1) In Menzoberranzan, second-in-command to Narcelia, helping rebuild House Millithor.

2) In Menzoberranzan, founding a new house.

3) In Maerimydra, founding a new house.


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## Pyrex (May 20, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Vow of Greed - Must always maintain wealth equal to 20% more than a normal character of their level, and never, ever give anything away without payment.  In return they gain +5 to Spot and Listen checks and can _see invisiblily_ 1/day (better to spot thieves).




It seems like really bizarre design to have a feat where the "restriction" is that you start with 20% more treasure.

Perhaps it would make more sense that 20% of your wealth be more or less liquid. (i.e. coins, gems, jewelry, put an extra 1000gp worth of gemstones/gilding into your weapons, etc)


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 20, 2004)

Ya know, that would work too.  I mean, I was going to have that extra 20% be in shiny things anyway, and this way it would be more fair.  Greed isn't necessarily about usage, it's just about owning things and never letting them go.  Bro, how about that?


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## Dalamar (May 20, 2004)

*Name:* Torellan Millithor, _first_ son of House Millithor
*Race*: Vampire Drow
*Alignment:* Chaotic Evil with Lawful tendencies
*Classes and level:* Psychic Warrior 10

Don't remember the exact chapter spread, but Torellan was played by another when the game started, and I took over and remodelled Torellan to suit my tastes. In the beginnin of the game, Torellan pretty much stayed in the background.

When the group was on their way to Szith Morcane, Torellan became more active and he started throwing around quips (I started playing). When they arrived, Torellan tried his best to win the favor of VelastaT'Sarran (or however that house name is spelled), and actually succeeded quite well. 

He was right on his way to getting intimate with his target of affection when they were returning from the surface raid, but they were attacked by strange skeletons that resided in a poisonous cloud. Torellan was on the brink of death and asked Velasta to introduce him to a vampire so he could continue on (which was arranged in a matter of minutes).
While Torellan was completing his transformation, lots of stuff happened (Velasta was killed, Torellan's master was slain, some party members got lost/dead, most of T'Sarrans were slain, the usual stuff). Torellan was really angry over the fact that Velasta died before he had a chance to have his way with her.
And he was even more angry over the fact that he was, as he found out, now unable to have his way with anybody.

Torellan proceeded to create an army of vampires, which unfortunately dismantled while he was waiting to be retrieved from Szith Morcane by the rest of 'em after the fight against the balors.

*Transition time*
Torellan feeds on live people he happens to find, preferrably female humans, elves, or their ilk. He creates vampire spawns under his control (5 of them in total). He bugs Quertus with a jest or similar at least weekly. 
Spends lots of time humiliating members of the inferior races with his dominate ability (sit, roll, strip, run, etc). Also borrows a _polymorph_ or three from Quertus periodically to have some 'fun' with his avariel minions.

*Home bases:* Own coffin in wherever the remnants of the House currently are
*Slaves:* Velisa and Veshila Feathersong, two vampiric avariels under Torellan's complete control

*Major battles:* 
Against the balors: defeated, but not destroyed
To gain back his 'manhood': Temprorary remedy found from _polymorph_


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## Seonaid (May 21, 2004)

I like your plans, Isida. My personal favorite plan for the past year is reforming House Millithor (possibly by dominating, in the non-vampiric sense, a much lesser House, preferably one with whom we'd been fighting prior to the Silence) in Menzo. I think the characters would have an attachment to Menzo, and it would be better for them to go there. Also, starting the House over again in Menzo means we'll have a stable (as stable as can be, anyway) power base somewhere, something hopefully fairly secure. I doubt Tierak would be content to submit to Narcelia or Carcelon's superiority, and Narcelia wouldn't trust Tierak as a fully equal member of the House, so perhaps the Morcane House could form on its own as well, and become an ally?

As for my synopsis, I don't have much:

Narcelia Millithor, Drow Cleric of Lolth 18 (chaotic evil)

Narcelia did very little in my hands, mainly following the others and trying not to look bad. She was not as favored as Carcelon prior to the Silence (evidenced by her two Scourge heads compared to Carcelon's three). She _was_ washed away by Kripp at one point, and presumably captured and held hostage by Illithids, though that has never been proven. Her incarceration was revealed through dreams only. It is unknown how she escaped: she appeared nude at the feet of Kripp and Kilcif as they waited for Carcelon to return from her rendezvous with That Which Swims in Darkness. Her relationship with the other PC's is neutral, though the past year could have caused stronger or weaker bonds to each respectively. She relied on her family (the other Millithors) much more than usual during the Silence, and that relationship has continued, though now the Silence is over, she spends much of her time consolidating her personal power. She was not ready to be Matron at the end of Endur's campaign, but is strong enough to do the job and be fine at the end of this year.

She spent the interim year subduing any opposition to House Millithor (including the other PC's, if applicable) and building back the House's power in Menzoberranzan. She plans on consolidating, continuing the war against rival Houses, and making sure Carcelon (who she _knows_ is much more ambitious than she is herself) does not plan on becoming Matron Millithor too soon. If she was successful in any campaigns against drow Houses, the surviving members (no clerics) would be enslaved for her household. (She would make sure the enslavement looked legal, for example, by planting "proof" of the House's plotting against Baenre or another of the first Houses.) She would also have as many other slaves as necessary to run her Household. She is kinder to the lesser races than most drow, but in her grasping of power to restore the House, probably those tendancies would be muted.

Let me know if you want more detail. I think the Illithid/imprisonment is a powerful hook, so if you use it, you should thank Endur.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 21, 2004)

Existing history: prior to the Silence, Tierak was a relatively devout and not particularly ambitious cleric; she believed that power came more from the Spider Queen's affections than political power, and maneuvered only to stay in Lolth's favor, not to maintain a following among "lessers" (anyone but a high priestess).  When Lolth fell silent, Tierak was shaken to the core, and almost overwhelmed when the worshippers of Kiaransalee made their coup; only a pair of bebilith companions gifted to her before the Silence preserved her life throughout the ensuing battles, until the balor attack slew them and ended the hopes of assaulting Maerimydra.

New history:  When Lolth returned, Tierak took it as definitive proof that her faith was, indeed, the most important part of holding power; nevertheless, she remembers the lessons learned in the Silence, that clerical might alone is insufficient in dire straights.  To that end, she has begun collecting former servants and allies of House Morcane, locating the scattered ones with Discern Location; she has also made an effort to recruit the younger members of houses destroyed in the fighting, in an attempt to build a vibrant new House Morcane.

One small question: can dark craft XP also be used to pay for the XP component of a Planar Ally spell, provided that a demon is summoned?

EDIT: Also, I'm having serious trouble finding a proper cohort; there's just nothing in keeping with the spider theme I'm going for besides the bebilith, and I'm not sure if they're of low enough ECL (none is listed).  There is one creature that would make a perfect bodyguard, and would fit the theme if I added the insectile template; sadly, it comes from Monte Cook's Legacy of the Dragons, which you didn't list as a potential resource, though if you're willing to consider it, I can send you the stat block.  It's not listed as extraplanar, but would be if summoned from Serran, the world of the Diamond Throne setting.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 21, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ya know, that would work too.  I mean, I was going to have that extra 20% be in shiny things anyway, and this way it would be more fair.  Greed isn't necessarily about usage, it's just about owning things and never letting them go.  Bro, how about that?



Yeah it works...  for an ECL 20 though it's 152,000 GP...  That seems a bit extreme.   :\   (not asking for it to be changed, I'm just trying to figure out if I want to risk so much on a single feat.  You can't really make a person turn against his god, but you sure as can rob him.  Lose the feat, not to bad in itself but then you lose the PrC and that would be very bad...)

And I'm like Pyrex, I couldn't figure out how I was negative...   

Anyhow, I'm sick right now, and actually begging for death, I think I'm going to call it a night.


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## Pyrex (May 21, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> EDIT: Also, I'm having serious trouble finding a proper cohort...




What about an Aranea with some combination of Ftr / Hexblade / Spellsword / Devoted Defender levels?


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## Pyrex (May 21, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Yeah it works...  for an ECL 20 though it's 152,000 GP...  That seems a bit extreme.   :\   (not asking for it to be changed, I'm just trying to figure out if I want to risk so much on a single feat.  You can't really make a person turn against his god, but you sure as can rob him.  Lose the feat, not to bad in itself but then you lose the PrC and that would be very bad...)




How does the PrC you're looking at require a feat we haven't invented yet?

Also, when robbed you wouldn't lose the _feat_ itself, just the _benefit_ the feat provides.  Hence you wouldn't loose the PrC. Also, as currently written the vow doesn't say anything about theft anyway.  It just says you can't voluntarily _give_ something away.

You're right, 150k is more than a little excessive.

How about instead of a percentage, you would just refuse to own objects of inferior (i.e. non-masterwork) quality?


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 21, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> What about an Aranea with some combination of Ftr / Hexblade / Spellsword / Devoted Defender levels?




I'd considered aranea and Devoted Defender, but the aranea is a bad melee type.  Good rogue, good caster, but bad melee.  On the other hand, an aranea sorceror/incantatrix might work quite well to keep me safe from summonings gone wrong.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 21, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> How does the PrC you're looking at require a feat we haven't invented yet?




The answer to that lies below everyone of Isida's posts... 



			
				Pyrex said:
			
		

> Also, when robbed you wouldn't lose the _feat_ itself, just the _benefit_ the feat provides.  Hence you wouldn't loose the PrC. Also, as currently written the vow doesn't say anything about theft anyway.  It just says you can't voluntarily _give_ something away.




Your right, sorry I'm not very lucid right now...  :\ 



			
				Pyrex said:
			
		

> How about instead of a percentage, you would just refuse to own objects of inferior (i.e. non-masterwork) quality?



Hmmm that could work...  It’s not exactly what I would expect out of a bugbear, but it’s a good way to apply a game mechanic.  

Isida, I sent you an email....  Sorry I didn't plan on it getting that long.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 21, 2004)

Paxus - using the dark craft XP to summon demons is a go.

And which creature were you thinking of in Legacy of the Dragons?  The Arachtar?  (Not only do I own it, I'm a contributing author, I wrote the NPC Vo-Tarran.)

Bro, got to and responded to your e-mail.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 21, 2004)

Actually, I was thinking the Bladebreaker; though spiderlike, the Arachtar aren't necessarily the best bodyguards, though they'd make a handy servitor.  An arachnoid (using the insectile template) bladebreaker Devoted Defender would be an excellent guard.

EDIT: As Dark Craft XP can be used to summon demons, Tierak is going to have a big mess of Myrlochar running around on her missions.  They'll not be used as combatants, but as assassins and messengers.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 21, 2004)

Go ahead with the arachnoid bladebreaker then Paxus.    And what book and page are Myrlochar on?


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 21, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Go ahead with the arachnoid bladebreaker then Paxus.    And what book and page are Myrlochar on?



Monsters of Faerun, page 66.


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## Xael (May 21, 2004)

Endur said:
			
		

> What is the current population of Menzoberranzan? I'm vague on the answer for this, but I can tell you that Menzo should have survived the War of the Spider Queen (including Groomph). The actual answer is in book six of the War of the Spider Queen (which will be published this fall? next spring?).



Menzoberranzan had 20,000 drow before they attacked the Mithril Hall. They lost few thousand in the battles there, and then there was the slave revolt and the duergar attack. But I'd still wager that there's at least 10,000 drow left.

Plus slaves. Lots of slaves.



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> No. _I_ may ride the Tarrasque, but _you_ may not.



Can I charm/dominate the Tarrasque?  Or maybe I should do something like I heard on the D&D boards: Use _Trap The Soul_ at Tarrasque and make the gem my phylactery.



*Name & Title:* Quertus Millithor, House Wizard (Not born into Millithor family)
*Race*: Drow
*Alignment:* Lawful Evil (Fits better than CE IMHO)
*Classes and level:* Wizard 16/Archmage 2

*History prior:* Quertus spend a lot of time mainly following Matron and the priestresses around and doing what he was told. He helped the party in robbing Laral's, and then took part in a raid to the surface from Szith Morcane. He helped capturing Randal Morn, the leader of Daggerdale (and killed his lover or something btw), but Morn was killed by poison later.

Quertus spend a lot of time in Szith Morcane with the present Archmage, Solom Nez-something, and his Lich-brother Eilos. He also gained a Quasit familiar named Icho from Solom. Solom and Eilos retreated when the Balor attacked. Quertus teleported away with what was left of the party when Matron and some others (including Kilcif) were slain by the Balors.

*History after: *Quertus spend the year doing magical research and doing whatever needed to help the house(s) and himself. Killed Quasit familiar Icho. He's probably helped in whatever plans the priestresses (or other party members) have had. He is interested in claiming as much power as possible, and would probably have tried to seize control of what was left of the _Inverted Tower _(Solom's base, Wizard School) in Szith Morcane since it should be now empty. He's also eager to build/conquer a new base from anywhere else (Ched Nasad, Maerimyda, Menzoberranzan?). He would also like to kill a number of people, but that's not his top priority, unless they decide to harass him.

*People Wanted Dead: *Solom Nez-something, Eilos Millithor, Laral, Errtu the Balor, the Ancient Red Dragon in the Duergar city.

*Party relationships: *Nothing particular, mainly does what priestresses tell him to do. Considers Torellan his most trustworty assistant.

*Slaves/Servants: *If you don't count the rest of the party, probably nothing unless he has managed to Charm/Dominate/Summon anything. Use of _Dominate Monster, Mass Charm Monster_ and _Greater Planar Binding_ could of course have gained him some servants.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 21, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Bro, got to and responded to your e-mail.




Yup, and I've responded like twice today also.   (Including one a little before 11 or so.)  Just an FYI, no rush. 

Edit: Oh yeah I went and downloaded the SRD...  I wasn't quoting from memory for very long.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

Bro, I just shot you an e-mail.  I hope you have MS Word.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

As for _dominated_ and _mass charmed_ lackies...  Lemme ask you a question, what do you ask these charmed guys to do?  What do you tend to charm?  Do you tend to them at all (give them food or weapons)?  Do you reward them?  Do you punish them?  If so how?  And if you did do your dominating and charming stuff, how many _charmed/dominated_ critters could you get and maintain?  How long do your spells last?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Bro, I just shot you an e-mail.  I hope you have MS Word.



You ask me this after I make a pdf for you?   Honesty, I would be much of a computer geek if I didn't...   (Office 2000)

I sent you two emails, one in reply to the orginal and another with some magic item ideas.


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## Xael (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> As for _dominated_ and _mass charmed_ lackies... Lemme ask you a question, what do you ask these charmed guys to do?



No idea, since we don't really know what we're doing yet. If we decide to take over a destroyed city, I'd probably ask them to do whatever they want in the city but report possible enemies/invaders to me. And possibly use them as construction workers and general helpers.



> What do you tend to charm?



Heh, no idea. Depends on what Quertus can find. Usually something not really dangerous (no Dragon hunting).



> Do you tend to them at all (give them food or weapons)? Do you reward them? Do you punish them? If so how?



Depends. No idea really. I'd quess they could tend to themselves somewhat (food) since they've survived this long. Extreme punishing might danger the Charmed condition, so it should be used very sparingly, and I'm not rewarding anybody unless they deserve it.



> And if you did do your dominating and charming stuff, how many _charmed/dominated_ critters could you get and maintain?



_*Theoretically*_ a large amount (quite easily over a hundred goblins for example) of _Charmed_ creatures, and few _Dominated_. I can charm 36 HD worth of things with one casting of _Mass Chram Monster _if they're close enough to each other. Torellan could (again, theoretially) _Dominate_ unlimited number of people.



> How long do your spells last?



1 day per caster level, so 18 days per casting.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 22, 2004)

I've put my cohort, familiar, and mount up on the character sheet; tell me if there are any terrible inaccuracies, or math that needs more spelling out.  It's late, and my coherence may be less than I think it is.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

Meh, I'm getting equally incoherant at this point.  I'll look over the things tomorrow, but I'm leaving most of the math up to you.  My only request would be to please outfit your cohort (and because I let another person do it, you can outfit him with as much as a PC of its level would be), and give all of your extra people a name.  And maybe a one-sentence personality, so if I have to roleplay them I have a hint.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Meh, I'm getting equally incoherant at this point.  I'll look over the things tomorrow, but I'm leaving most of the math up to you.  My only request would be to please outfit your cohort (and because I let another person do it, you can outfit him with as much as a PC of its level would be), and give all of your extra people a name.  And maybe a one-sentence personality, so if I have to roleplay them I have a hint.




Personality and name can come up tonight; adding in the cohort's extra EQ will take a good while longer, but should be done by mid-afternoon tomorrow.


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## Dalamar (May 22, 2004)

Should I add the personality, equipment, description of all the five vampire spawn that Torellan has under his control?


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## Uriel (May 22, 2004)

Er, Paxus...are you Carcelon or Tierak?
I am confused...


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## Xael (May 22, 2004)

*Sigh*

It's too bad we don't have a sponsor for the Landlord feat, I've once again come up with an incredibly sick idea for a fortress (okay, a tower)...

I need about a million gold pieces.  

_Quertus' Tower of Doom_... *Drools*



And Paxus is Tierak. I think.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> Should I add the personality, equipment, description of all the five vampire spawn that Torellan has under his control?



I would find that to be an interesting read at the very least and I'm pretty sure that Isida would find it invaluable. 

PA, is indeed Tierak.

Kilcif is nearly done also, have a few items to buy and then I need to convert over to Isida's format.  

Also I can honestly say that Kilcif is a very scary bugbear...:  cool:


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

If ya ain't scary by 20th levels ya shouldn't be adventuring!  

As for the Tower of Doom...  Hell why don't you guys _charm, dominate_ or just beat the gold out of someone?  I mean we have enough of people to do that, right?


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## Xael (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> As for the Tower of Doom... Hell why don't you guys _charm, dominate_ or just beat the gold out of someone? I mean we have enough of people to do that, right?



Well, that's the plan B. We just need to find somebody who has that gold.  And beat him of course.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> If ya ain't scary by 20th levels ya shouldn't be adventuring!




Well if I'm doing my math right Kilcif is doing a minimum 21 damage a hit... opps...  26. 



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> As for the Tower of Doom...  Hell why don't you guys _charm, dominate_ or just beat the gold out of someone?  I mean we have enough of people to do that, right?



speaking of which, how are we going to get this charming band of adventures together?


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 22, 2004)

You don't want to try it on one person; anyone with a million in liquid assets will have protection of some sort.  Instead, beat it out of 20 people with 50,000 in liquid assets each; you can also make use of the people themselves for some of that (slaves, brains for the illithids, souls, liquid pain, the list goes on).


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

> speaking of which, how are we going to get this charming band of adventures together?




I think you might all have a charming coincidence of some sort...


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## Xael (May 22, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Well if I'm doing my math right Kilcif is doing a minimum 21 damage a hit... opps... 26.



Ouch. But then I quess that ECL 20 should mean something.



			
				Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> ...beat it out of 20 people with 50,000 in liquid assets each...



That's the safe route. We should go and kill Laral. He should have money.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Oh Isida, I made one small equipment change: Collision (XPH: pg. 165)

Are you tearing up? (worried look)


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

*Starts to bang head on desk*

*Then brings out the ELH and starts finding monsters up to the task...*


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *Starts to bang head on desk*




That looks rather painful...  :\   How about I just find something else?  Sundering (XPH pg. 166) could be cool...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

Naw, the collision weapon is fine, I'm just being dramaic.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Naw, the collision weapon is fine, I'm just being dramaic.



Sweet.   I shot you an email btw, or I think I did...  It sort of disappeared on me.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 22, 2004)

You think Kilcif is bad?  Tierak's bodyguard can't be hit in melee by anyone who has an attack bonus of less than +44, unless they're using a touch attack, and the poor fellow automatically interposes himself between her and any melee attack.

What do Collision and Sundering weapons do?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> You think Kilcif is bad?  Tierak's bodyguard can't be hit in melee by anyone who has an attack bonus of less than +44, unless they're using a touch attack, and the poor fellow automatically interposes himself between her and any melee attack.




Yeah I just looked, what book is that thing in?  and no Kilcif isn't that broke but then again are any of my characters?  



			
				Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> What do Collision and Sundering weapons do?



Sundering does what you think it would, Improved Sundering and Collision does +5 damage every hit.


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## Xael (May 22, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Sundering does what you think it would, Improved Sundering and Collision does +5 damage every hit.



Now, don't go breaking every weapon you encounter, they're worth money you know?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Now, don't go breaking every weapon you encounter, they're worth money you know?



  Isida doesn’t mind the collision so I don’t see sundering every being used.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

Hey Paxus, what book is the insectile template in?


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Hey Paxus, what book is the insectile template in?




Savage Species, page 122.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 22, 2004)

Ok. Lemme see here.  Now if I have everything calculated correctly, Tierak can have an ECL 16 cohort yes?  (ECL for a Thaumatugist Planar Cohort can be no higher than level-2)

Now a blade-breaker's ECL is 7 (CR 5, +2 LA).  An insectile template gives a +2 ECL.  And then he has 8 character levels.  His total ECL is currently:  17.  Will you please reduce it by one?  And the wealth by a similar amount?  Thanks.


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## Dalamar (May 22, 2004)

ECL has nothing do with CR. ECL is CL + LA, and CL is equal to racial hit dice + levels.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 22, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok. Lemme see here.  Now if I have everything calculated correctly, Tierak can have an ECL 16 cohort yes?  (ECL for a Thaumatugist Planar Cohort can be no higher than level-2)
> 
> Now a blade-breaker's ECL is 7 (CR 5, +2 LA).  An insectile template gives a +2 ECL.  And then he has 8 character levels.  His total ECL is currently:  17.  Will you please reduce it by one?  And the wealth by a similar amount?  Thanks.




I was understanding the level requirement of the thaumaturge to be based on ECL, so as to allow up to an ECL 18; after all, if its ECL counts against it, mine should count for it.  If that understanding was incorrect, I can correct it.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

What book is this blade-breaker in? 

Also Dalamar is correct.   (and stole most of my post.)


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> so as to allow up to an ECL 18; after all, if its ECL counts against it, mine should count for it.




The entry uses the leadership feat, if you read the last line it states that you cannot have a planner alley and a cohort from leadership, and your leadership score is calculated via your Character Level and not effective level.  (Also a cohort is limited to be two levels (Including their ECL) lower than your character level.  It’s harsh but a cohort isn’t supposed to outshine everyone else and this limits his or her ability to do so.)

Kilcif's leadership score is 5 levels lower cause of this rule.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 22, 2004)

The blade breaker is from Legacy of the Dragons, by Monte Cook (with contributions from fans, including our beloved DM).


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 22, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> with contributions from fans, including our beloved DM.



Really?  Isida any reason why you never said anything about that?  I would have gotten it by now.  (easy enough to fix.)  What in the book was your creation? 

Edited: Ordered


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## Dalamar (May 22, 2004)

What do you think is the LA of a vampire spawn? Since they are not a template creature, they have 4 HD of undead, and undead hit dice are crappy. I'm thinking something along the lines of +2 to +4 would be approriate, considering that all of their abilitie are at half-strenght or less compared to a normal vampire

On the other hand, I'm considering having two normal vampire of 10th level instead, maybe rogues or fighters. It'd ease out the number or characters.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Dalamar, I honesty don't have a clue...  The quick answer would be half the vampire but that would be way to high.  They have all the weakness and such so I would go 2.

Anyhow, I'm sort of curios how many front line fighters we have...  I have Kilcif basically set up for being a frontline fighter but maybe I should look more at being an archer.  What does everyone else think?


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## Seonaid (May 23, 2004)

Narcelia is finally updated. If it's okay, my wealth will come to a little over 760k because I sold the following items at half market. I actually screwed myself a little because I took just the enhancement values and halved that total. I also took the "flaming, or flaming burst" at the lower value of just flaming (it wasn't mine originally, so I'm not sure which it was). If you would prefer I do things differently, I will.

+1 studded leather armor
+1 buckler
Silver Dagger +1 (flaming, or flaming burst)
Rapier +1

If someone would check her over for me, that would be wonderful. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but I'm not very good at mechanics. I have been working on this literally for _hours_, and I'm just too tired to look any more. 

One thing: I did _not_ get a house insignia. If that's a problem, the Matron gives you permission to purchase one for her. Believe me when I say that it will be thoroughly examined before being used, and if any treachery is found, the persons involved in the buying/selling/giving will be . . . punished.

Also, I did not put in a scourge for Narcelia, as I figure Isida should handle that.

I think all of my saves are one lower than they should be, but I can't figure out where the extra points went. I don't know; I'm sure I have other mistakes.

Isida: I don't know how Narcelia was originally created, which is why I don't have point values for her abilities. (I am not the original player.)


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Seonaid, if Narcelia was confusion as she was, you can rebuild her from the ground up if that will make it simpler (and cleaner).  I would rather say that the scourge was lost in the scuffle somewhere along the way.

Dalamar, as we have characters coming out of our ears, if you want to go with a pair of slightly more powerful characters instead of a posse of weaker ones, that's cool.

Paxus, maybe you should try to carefully look at your leadership score so we can get a better handle on your cohort.  Could you calculate that for me please?  

Bro, I wrote the character Vo-Tarran in Legacy of the Dragons, the giant paragon unfettered.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 23, 2004)

I feel quite silly for failing to look at that before, though the PrC text doesn't mention it as a cap.  Tierak's Leadership score is 18 for level, +4 for Charisma, possible +1 for special power (the ability to bind and summon the potential cohort, or simply her considerable political power), -2 for having a familiar, for a total of 20 or 21.  That gives me a 14th or 15th level cohort; which shall it be?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Bro, I wrote the character Vo-Tarran in Legacy of the Dragons, the giant paragon unfettered.




Cool, as I posted in I ordered it so Amazon willing I'll have it in a day or two.   Was this your first published work?


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Tierak's Leadership score is 18 for level, +4 for Charisma, possible +1 for special power (the ability to bind and summon the potential cohort, or simply her considerable political power), -2 for having a familiar, for a total of 20 or 21.  That gives me a 14th or 15th level cohort; which shall it be?



Beg your pardon but she is also cruel, a drow after all, and she also has a special mount.

22 (15th level character)
Mount [-2] 20 (14th level)
Familiar [-2] 18 (12th level) 
Cruel [-2] 16 (11th level)
Alignment [-1] 15 (10th level)
Great Renown [+2] 17 (12 level)
Special Power [+1] 18 (12th level)

I took massive penalties on Kilcif's cohort, including alignment, and being cruel.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Beg your pardon but she is also cruel, a drow after all, and she also has a special mount.
> 
> 22 (15th level character)
> Mount [-2] 20 (14th level)
> ...




Ah, but alignment can be changed, having a mount AND animal companion is not listed as cumulative, and she's not cruel, just devoted to a viciously insane goddess.  She's not going to beat her cohort, though she might do so to followers.


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## Seonaid (May 23, 2004)

I don't think I want to rebuild Narcelia, but I will if you prefer it. When I took her over, it was fairly early in the campaign and Endur had me keep her as is.

Two things I would like addressed either here or in the first IC post are what, exactly, happens with House Millithor and House Morcane (together and/or separately) during the interim year and what the effect of not having a scourge does to Narcelia's reputation (and the House's reputation).

Also, I know this is your own game, but I really liked how Endur posted things that were happening outside of the PC's little world, but that had an effect on them (either immediately or in the future). It would be neat if that was continued somehow, for example little snippets of what's happening in the Demonweb Pits. I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind, but if you aren't planning for us to at least learn why Lolth was silent, that would be cruel and unusual.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Ah, but alignment can be changed, having a mount AND animal companion is not listed as cumulative, and she's not cruel, just devoted to a viciously insane goddess.  She's not going to beat her cohort, though she might do so to followers.




It's all about perception...  If you've beaten a follower then when you’re recruiting your cohort they could honestly think about them getting smacked around also.  

But if you want to have a debate, friendly mind you, then I would do the fallowing.

22 (15th level character)
Mount & Familiar [-2] 20 (14th level) (you where right about this)
Cruel [*] 20 (14th level)  (you say your chaotic evil drow priestess isn't cruel so we will remove this.)   
Alignment [-1] 19 (13th level)  (This stays, at least until the alignment has truly shifted, fair enough?) 
Great Renown [*] 19 (13th level) (this goes, your not even cruel and your house was completely destroyed.
Special Power [*] 19 (13th level) (show what makes her so special in the FR setting?)
Failure [-1] 18 (12th level) (you lost nearly all of your great drow house and are branded a failure till you prove other wise.

How does that look?


----------



## Dalamar (May 23, 2004)

Well, redesigning includes not considering the equipment the last incarnation of the character had (effectively  we're all creating the characters again).


----------



## Seonaid (May 23, 2004)

It seems to me as though some of us are creating characters from scratch, some of us are building old characters from the ground up, and some of us are kind of going from where we were.


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## Endur (May 23, 2004)

If you ask Isida nicely, maybe you can have the whole Szith Morcane vampire crew.  There's only 25 or so of them.  At least twenty are true vampires with a level range of 5-10 and five or so spawn.



			
				Dalamar said:
			
		

> On the other hand, I'm considering having two normal vampire of 10th level instead, maybe rogues or fighters. It'd ease out the number or characters.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Well, I was thinking that if you were having trouble with the math and stuff, it might be easier to start over with a clean slate.  I was just thinking what might be easier for you.  

What was the function and origin of the scourge so that I might better answer your question?  As for what happens to the two houses, I still have to ponder on that.

As for little snippits about what's going on around you, I think I can manage that.  As for learning how Lolth was silent, we'll just save that for the game.

Bro - Yes, being printed in Legacy of the Dragons was my first publication, and if I'm lucky I may have another coming up in the future.  (And I don't think I can talk about it yet)

Paxus, so assuming you're going to have your cohort be of the same alignment, let's see:

As the very max, it cannot be any higher than your character level -2, so that means that the highest ECL it can be is 16.  After considering your level, Charimsa, mount, familiar, and the fact that you were the member of a powerful House, let's just keep it at 16, shall we?  That would make it an insectile blade-breaker ranger 1/ Devoted Defender 6.

Thought I'm curious, did you know there's an arachnoid creature template in the Underdark book?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Endur said:
			
		

> If you ask Isida nicely, maybe you can have the whole Szith Morcane vampire crew.  There's only 25 or so of them.  At least twenty are true vampires with a level range of 5-10 and five or so spawn.



  *Blanches*  That's just scary...  I can't even consider trying to run 25 NPCs...  

Seonaid, I think a lot of people are doing a lot of rebuilding to take advantage of having a (relatively) clean slate, as well as a new DM.  If you wanted to do something different with your character, this would be the time.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Bro - Yes, being printed in Legacy of the Dragons was my first publication, and if I'm lucky I may have another coming up in the future.  (And I don't think I can talk about it yet)



Cool, and if you’re lucky and get selected again brag about it, okay? 



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> As the very max, it cannot be any higher than your character level, so that means that the highest ECL it can be is 16.  After considering your level, Charisma, mount, familiar, and the fact that you were the member of a powerful House, let's just keep it at 16, shall we?



Dose this velvet glove ruling have any effect on my cohort? 

BTW: I'm off looking for the house insignia and the scourge...  I've seen them stated around here before.


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## Dalamar (May 23, 2004)

Actually, it'd make it ranger 1/devoted defender 5, since an insectile blade breaker has an ECL of 10 (6HD +2 LA blade breaker +2 LA insectile).

Also, on the devoted defender's parrying ability, I'd suggst changing that the same way that Deflect Arrows was changed: automatically once per round. 

Oh, and Krip*tasp has one feat too many (unless Devoted Defender give a bonus feat, haven't looked at the class in a year or two)


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## Seonaid (May 23, 2004)

Thanks, Isida, I'm going to keep her as is.

I'm not sure how much you know about scourges, so here's the deal (to my understanding). The scourge is a visible sign of Lolth's favor. All clerics of Lolth have one. They have stats as in Carcelon's stat block in the new rogues' gallery thread. Although they are weapons, they often are used simply for punishment of the inferior, not actual combat. The number of heads shows how _much_ favor a particular priestess has. Each head has its own personality and ability scores (though not necessarily rolled), and can speak. I don't remember how many the previous Matron's had (and I'm too lazy to look it up), but Narcelia's only had 2, whereas Carcelon's had 3 (and she was the younger sister, and therefore not the future Matron). Carcelon was more highly regarded by Lolth. It's possible that when a priestess becomes Matron, another head grows, since Matrons seem to have more than others (five is not uncommon).

Unfortunately, when Narcelia was washed away by Kripp, she had the scourge with her, and the Illithids took it (or so I assume). I guess that if House Millithor is still around, and Narcelia is still associated with the House, either she got another scourge (directly from Lolth), or another highly favorable sign was associated with Narcelia directly. Otherwise, the House would be seen as weak and no one other than Narcelia herself would think her fit to live. It would be an excellent excuse for Carcelon to plot, with or without help, Narcelia's assassination.

Just so you know, I'm not at all criticizing you when I make these suggestions. I'm really excited to begin, but I'm totally content to let things play out how they do. 

Edit: Well, if you're okay with a *complete* rebuild, I might do that . . . There were some choices made by the other player that I don't understand.


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## Dalamar (May 23, 2004)

Just pay for the scourge like any other piece of equipment. That's the reason Torellan doesn't have a House Insignia anymore: I couldn't fit it in (though with the shifting of my equipment now, I just might).


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Ah ok, I see what you're talking about now.  Well I'm going to have to do a little more reading, and I'm going to have to e-mail Endur to ask about the status of the two houses.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Yes, you can do a complete rebuild, I think a lot of other people are anyway.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Found



> House Millithor House Insignia
> Powers
> Levitate 3/day (caster level 3)
> Message 3/day (caster level 3, only to another who has a House Insignia)
> ...






> The three Priestesses of Lolth each have a "Scourge of Fangs", a whip with animated snake heads. As an attack action, one snake head can be ordered to bite. As a full attack action, all the snake heads can be ordered to bite.
> 
> Snake Head stats Tiny Construct, HD 2d10, HP 11, Init +3, AC 17, Atk +5 melee, dmg 1d2 -2 + Pain, SA Pain, Fort 0, Ref +3, Will 0
> Str 6, Dex 17, Wis 11, Chr 1, Int -, Con -,
> ...




Isida, pg. 129 of the CotSQ adventure has more information on the House Insignia.


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## Seonaid (May 23, 2004)

But I would definitely have to pay for the House Insignia . . . Isn't the scourge a gift of Lolth? Or maybe not. I dunno. Whatever, all of my knowledge of FR is based on novels, which don't exactly follow d20 rules. 

I'll see about redoing Narcelia. I don't know yet.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 23, 2004)

I don't own Underdark, so I'm unfamiliar with that template; if someone can email it to me or post it here, it might save me an extra level of Devoted Defender.  The extra feat is a holdover from the original creature, which has four feats, but doesn't list one as a bonus feat; I'd assume that, if any feat is bonus rather than a mistake, it's Sunder (Improved Sunder in D&D), but I can always ditch Eagle Claw Attack.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I don't own Underdark, so I'm unfamiliar with that template; if someone can email it to me or post it here, it might save me an extra level of Devoted Defender.




I'll get to work on it as soon as I find my underdark book...  _Goes to wonder though his apartment._


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Edit: PA do you have excel?  or is there any chance your creature’s size can or will change?

To late done and emailed.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

I be thinking, +2 for the Medium blade breaker.  Same as the insectile template.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

_Starts to feel nervous at seeing Endur's posting in the RG_

Endur, if you’re around are you doing the classic swap from DM to player?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Alrighty I got a Isida's formated copy of Kilcif up in the RG now. (link )  I'm sure this small issues to deal with and I'll take care of them tonight or tommarow. 

Isida, one thing of note is the melee weapons slot.  With the scared bonus to the morningstar I dropped in an extra line for the morningstar.  (oh 1H is in one-handed use, and 2H is two handed.)


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## Xael (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Alrighty I got a Isida's formated copy of Kilcif up in the RG now. (link ) I'm sure this small issues to deal with and I'll take care of them tonight or tommarow.



You forgot to add the bonus from masterwork thieves' tools to some skills.



But Endur posting scares me too. Not Irae though, she's a wuss. Or would be, if she didn't have that Epic Spellcasting...  She's certainly more badass than in the module.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 23, 2004)

I think I'm going to stay with the mechanics of the insectile template, and just call it arachnoid; the benefits it grants are more defensive than those of the arachnoid template, as befits a bodyguard.


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## Xael (May 23, 2004)

Seonaid, umm, I'm not sure you could afford a weapon with total bonus of +15... Or that armor and that shield. :\ They're rather epic...


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## Dalamar (May 23, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I don't own Underdark, so I'm unfamiliar with that template; if someone can email it to me or post it here, it might save me an extra level of Devoted Defender.  The extra feat is a holdover from the original creature, which has four feats, but doesn't list one as a bonus feat; I'd assume that, if any feat is bonus rather than a mistake, it's Sunder (Improved Sunder in D&D), but I can always ditch Eagle Claw Attack.



 The extra feat is because in Arcana Unearthed, everybody has an extra feat at 1st level.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> You forgot to add the bonus from masterwork thieves' tools to some skills.




Yeah, good catch.   I know I would never had remember in game either...  



			
				Xael said:
			
		

> But Endur posting scares me too. Not Irae though, she's a wuss. Or would be, if she didn't have that Epic Spellcasting...  She's certainly more badass than in the module.




Its the fact that her levels have gone up even after her death and her undead death that have me worried...     Then again he did post a certain drow ranger that never even go a mention in character.


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 23, 2004)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> The extra feat is because in Arcana Unearthed, everybody has an extra feat at 1st level.




Of course!  How could I have missed that?!  Ignore the shattered, sobbing man with the Latin-sounding username; he is no longer all there.


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## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

It seems everybody's getting Leadership... maybe I should jump on the bandwagon. My character does after all have the highest charisma in the group by a fair margin. If I pick Improved Leadership at lvl 21 I can have a 20th level cohort and some 500 followers. I would have to drop Maximize spell and wait a while for Epic spellcasting, but maybe it's worth it. Epic spellcasting is only useful if it's broken, else it's not worth the cost of developing the spells.
What do you think?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Um... no one should be at epic level yet.  Templates might push the ECL over 20, but _no one_ should have over 20 class levels yet.  And your ECL shouldn't be over 21.


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## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Um... no one should be at epic level yet.  Templates might push the ECL over 20, but _no one_ should have over 20 class levels yet.  And your ECL shouldn't be over 21.




I know, I'm just planning ahead


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Ok, you scared me there for a moment.

If you want a cohort now... you can flesh out the cohort, but your followers will remain strictly in the background, cool?  

What would your Leadership score be for your cohort (if you're getting him now)?  And what kind of cohort did you want?


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Of course!  How could I have missed that?!  Ignore the shattered, sobbing man with the Latin-sounding username; he is no longer all there.



We've known this for quite sometime. 

SE, welcome back.   If you want leadership go for it but to be honest, my cohort isn't very powerful, and is mainly there for roleplaying...  PA’s might be but it's both slow and stupid but due to LA on are characters are cohorts are held in place but little will hold your cohort in check.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

"When Cohorts Attack!  Tonight on Underdark primetime!  Watch rampant unchecked cohorts go _wild!_"


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## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> We've known this for quite sometime.
> 
> SE, welcome back.   If you want leadership go for it but to be honest, my cohort isn't very powerful, and is mainly there for roleplaying...  PA’s might be but it's both slow and stupid but due to LA on are characters are cohorts are held in place but little will hold your cohort in check.




Thanks 
I'm not sure, for either RP or PowerP reasons, wether I should get a cohort. I would give up a very powerful ability to get one.
You are right, my cohort would be more powerful than yours, but that's one of the few (and diminishing) benefits my character gets from not having an LA. You all already get some considerable compensation for your LA in the form of extra HPs.
 After I reach 21st level (and presumably Epic Level Spellcasting) my rate of power-increase will become a lot slower, most of it will come in the form of disposable treasure (and LA doesn't affect that). Most epic feats after that are rather weak compared to what non-epic characters get. You, by contrast, will increase your BaB and/or your spellcasting ability until you too reach epic levels and get your handful of powerful feats in addition to your native abilities as a superior race. My character will be weaker, rather than stronger than the others in the group. It is only in the short term that my character has the potential to be more powerful than yours.
Leadership might be the equalizer I'll need, but I'm not decided.

Leadership might not be apropriate for a character who would have no political power in the House or the party. How could I justify playing the greatest leader in the group while being a follower?

--
Isida, my Leadership score would be 20 (lvl) + 12 (cha), but I'd get no benefit for anything above 25 with only the Leadership feat. I could get a 17th level cohort (20th at 21st level with Epic Leadership).


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> If you want a cohort now... you can flesh out the cohort, but your followers will remain strictly in the background, cool?
> 
> What would your Leadership score be for your cohort (if you're getting him now)?  And what kind of cohort did you want?




So no ritual Epic Spellcasting with half-a-thousand 1st level spells as mitigators? Cool?    Cool.

I'm not quite sure about the cohort. Something fighterish and durable that can both take damage and deal it without needing too much baby-sitting. Something with an LA... What's the LA of the epic Paragon template? The Challenge Rating is +15.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

too much


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 23, 2004)

Oh, there's an idea.  Can Dark Craft xp be used either to develop or cast epic spells?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

eh... depends on the spell


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## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> too much




And an Awakened Pseudonatural Octopus (CR 17) would also be too much?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> And an Awakened Pseudonatural Octopus (CR 17) would also be too much?



  What.  The.  Hell?  _*WHY?!*_


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I'm not sure, for either RP or PowerP reasons, wether I should get a cohort. I would give up a very powerful ability to get one.




Very true.



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> You are right, my cohort would be more powerful than yours, but that's one of the few (and diminishing) benefits my character gets from not having an LA. You all already get some considerable compensation for your LA in the form of extra HPs.



Very true also, but to be honest Kilcif isn't a trusting soul so any cohort he has will always been something that could be disposed off if need be.  (OOC: I don't think this should ever happen, you took the feat, and your cohorts loyalty shouldn't be an issue as long as your loyal to them.)

As for the LA hit points is very kind, and I'm sure that Kilcif got more hit points per a level than your character got for his real level.  If Isida thinks that they’re an unfair advantage at anywhere down the road I would gladly give them up. 

To be honest, I have no issue with your character having a cohort its the simply matter of how many PC and cohorts we seem to be collecting...  I dragged Isida into this game, and I feel responsible for any headaches she experiences cause of this game...   :\  In fact I feel a sympathy headache forming now...   

Anyhow it's her game so if she has issues with cohorts then she will say so. 



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> After I reach 21st level (and presumably Epic Level Spellcasting) my rate of power-increase will become a lot slower, most of it will come in the form of disposable treasure (and LA doesn't affect that). Most epic feats after that are rather weak compared to what non-epic characters get.




I'm not sure what you’re trying to say here as Epic Level Spellcasting is the most broken thing I've ever seen in 3rd edition. 



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> You, by contrast, will increase your BaB and/or your spellcasting ability until you too reach epic levels and get your handful of powerful feats in addition to your native abilities as a superior race.




Oh you get brownie points, oops, cool points for admitting to the superiority of Bugbears...  If you’re wanting to convert to Hruggek please let Kilcif know. 



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> My character will be weaker, rather than stronger than the others in the group. It is only in the short term that my character has the potential to be more powerful than yours.




Though I do agree that growth does pause after epic levels especially if epic spell casting isn't used but I still don't think your character will be that weak...  I know you to well to fall for that. 



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Leadership might be the equalizer I'll need, but I'm not decided.




It might be indeed. 



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Leadership might not be appropriate for a character who would have no political power in the House or the party. How could I justify playing the greatest leader in the group while being a follower?




I don't know, Kilcif has leadership simply for the zeal that infects his cohort.  Kilcif isn't out to be the group leader, he'll be happy to let others be equals and his cohort could probably care little about the group or the group politics.

And for the record: Isida made my cohort for me.


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> What.  The.  Hell?  _*WHY?!*_




 What? He's an Incanatar, he specialises in taking care of Outsiders and the very alienness of the creature might have been quite a good reason for him to befriend it in the first place once he encountered it in a distant realm of the multiverse. Out of scientific interest if nothing else. It, alone and frightened by the sanity and order of its environment, might have been pleased to tag along... Or something.

It's many natural attacks and the fact that LA=HPs makes sure that it would be a valuable member of the party.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> What.  The.  Hell?  _*WHY?!*_




Serpenteye, be nice, your going to make her head explode...


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Serpenteye, be nice, your going to make her head explode...




I am nice   .Really, I'm only joking (mostly) about the Pseudonatural.
 I have considered making a Paragon PC for an Epic level game, because the template is really cool and I'm curious how it would compare in power to characters who have more than 20 levels. Having a Paragon cohort would have been an interesting study.


----------



## Xael (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what you’re trying to say here as Epic Level Spellcasting is the most broken thing I've ever seen in 3rd edition.



Heh, I can second this one. But it also has the potential to be the most coolest thing in 3E.


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> As for the LA hit points is very kind, and I'm sure that Kilcif got more hit points per a level than your character got for his real level.  If Isida thinks that they’re an unfair advantage at anywhere down the road I would gladly give them up.




It probably won't be an issue. Our characters fill very different roles in the party and if I play my guy correctly I'm not going to need a lot of HPs.




			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> To be honest, I have no issue with your character having a cohort its the simply matter of how many PC and cohorts we seem to be collecting...  I dragged Isida into this game, and I feel responsible for any headaches she experiences cause of this game...   :\  In fact I feel a sympathy headache forming now...




Very true, very true.



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what you’re trying to say here as Epic Level Spellcasting is the most broken thing I've ever seen in 3rd edition.




It can be... But after that feat has been taken there's not much more to gain for a spellcaster.



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Oh you get brownie points, oops, cool points for admitting to the superiority of Bugbears...  If you’re wanting to convert to Hruggek please let Kilcif know.




Maybe I will. But I think Bane would suit him better.



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Though I do agree that growth does pause after epic levels especially if epic spell casting isn't used but I still don't think your character will be that weak...  I know you to well to fall for that.




 



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I don't know, Kilcif has leadership simply for the zeal that infects his cohort.  Kilcif isn't out to be the group leader, he'll be happy to let others be equals and his cohort could probably care little about the group or the group politics.
> 
> And for the record: Isida made my cohort for me.




Sounds interesting. I'd like to see it in play.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> But it also has the potential to be the most coolest thing in 3E.




To be honest, I've only seen it used twice and it was in the same game...  I saw it as horrible broke and wrong, I think the player who did it would agree with me also... 

It could be cool, I would have to see it in use again, but only if the followers where left and forgotten and not used like a gigantic car battery...



			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I am nice.




Don't worry I know you are and I was joking (mostly) myself.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (May 23, 2004)

I find Improved Metamagic to also be an extremely powerful feat; take it six times, and you've got Persistent everything at no additional cost.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

So... final descision... cohort or no?  If you desire one, what type?  Do you want me to make it or do you want to make it yourself?


----------



## Xael (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> It could be cool, I would have to see it in use again, but only if the followers where left and forgotten and not used like a gigantic car battery...



You're referring to researching a spell that requires 500 or so participants right? Frankly, no sane (Evil) spellcaster would create such a spell. I mean, how could you trust so many people? Sheesh. Not a chance. 

Besides, if Quertus lives long enough to get it, he'll just probably research _Epic Mage Armor _or something. And maybe a smaller version from _Proctiv's Move Mountain_...


----------



## Xael (May 23, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I find Improved Metamagic to also be an extremely powerful feat; take it six times, and you've got Persistent everything at no additional cost.



It can't reduce the level adjustment to less than +1. Besides, Automatic Quicken Spell is much more fun...


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Sounds interesting. I'd like to see it in play.



cool.   Every beast should have a Bell, right?


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> You're referring to researching a spell that requires 500 or so participants right? Frankly, no sane (Evil) spellcaster would create such a spell. I mean, how could you trust so many people? Sheesh. Not a chance.




Yeah something like that but it was a true neutral character and the spells were a massive weeklong boost to both wisdom and charisma. (+64 points each if I remember correctly.)


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> To be honest, I've only seen it used twice and it was in the same game...  I saw it as horrible broke and wrong, I think the player who did it would agree with me also...



I do, but I could have done a lot more... (Summon permanent spellcasting Outsiders to aid me in casting ever more powerful summonings and ever more powerful buffs and eventually conquer the Multiverse)   



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> So... final descision... cohort or no?  If you desire one, what type?  Do you want me to make it or do you want to make it yourself?




Yes, a powerful meleer/bodyguard of any type that seems cool and interesting to you. If you want to make one, please do. I'll drop Maximise Spell for Leadership as my feat for 18th level.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I do, but I could have done a lot more... (Summon permanent spellcasting Outsiders to aid me in casting ever more powerful summonings and ever more powerful buffs and eventually conquer the Multiverse)




You scare me...   And don't tell me you didn't go straight human just so you can get into epic levels sooner...


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> You scare me...   And don't tell me you didn't go straight human just so you can get into epic levels sooner...




I went human so I could get 9th level spells in what I thought would be an 18th level game. Shapechange was what I wanted, Solar, Pit Fiend, Great Gold Wyrm...


----------



## Xael (May 23, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I went human so I could get 9th level spells in what I thought would be an 18th level game. Shapechange was what I wanted, Solar, Pit Fiend, Great Gold Wyrm...



Sorry, Shapechance has been errated to a max HD=Caster level, not CL x 2.  

No great wyrms.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I went human so I could get 9th level spells in what I thought would be an 18th level game.




If you know longer want to be human the go drow, or what not you will still have your 9th level spells.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Seonaid, what is your final leadership score?  And do you want your cohort to have a few brains, or more of a "me hit stuff" kind of guy?


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Background post for my character (subject to a lot of change)

Teliek Ximeres
Archmage, incanatar and unchained servant of the tyrant.
(S6, I9, A5)
Alignment: LE 

Personality: 
Ruthless and pragmatic, he'll do anything to get ahead. 

History:


Enemies: The Heroes of the Sword Coast (BG2), Harpers, Cormyrean Purple Dragons and parts of the ruling class, The Cult of the Dragon, The church of Tyr in general and the Solar Piesu in particular.

Allies: Fzoul Zhembryl, a clone of Malshoon, and various opportunists in Zhentil Keep.

Party relationships: None as of yet.

Slaves/Servants: Leadership feat; 17th ecl cohort, mostly low level PC-classes in the ZK 
Dominated slaves: Strategically positioned guards and some of the members of the Cormyrean low-mid nobility. The leaders of a Cult o t Dragon thieves guild chapter in Selgaunt. Some of his followers (volunteer communications units). Some random victims here and there who got in his way and he hasn't come around to killing yet.


----------



## Dalamar (May 23, 2004)

Would you be so kind as to design my vampiric consorts for me, Isida?

I'm thinking of two avariel rogue sisters, one more of a face type, the other more of a thief type.


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Sorry, Shapechance has been errated to a max HD=Caster level, not CL x 2.
> 
> No great wyrms.




 ...Quickling, Beholder, Bodak, Ha-Naga, Paragon anything, Iron Golem.   
Most of the Epic monsters are out of our range, though.


----------



## Serpenteye (May 23, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> If you know longer want to be human the go drow, or what not you will still have your 9th level spells.




Nah, I'll try to make do with what I have.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Ok, Dalamar, what do you have one more time?  Two ECL 10 vampire spawn?  Or two vampire spawn with a total ECL of 10?

Seonaid, starting on your 17th level cohort here.


----------



## Dalamar (May 23, 2004)

Two vampires with 10 levels  (which will result in an ECL of 21 for an avariel vampire )


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 23, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Nah, I'll try to make do with what I have.



Oh yeah buddy you got it so bad...


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 23, 2004)

Cohort for Narcelia:

*Thorak Stonecrusher
Male Baphitaur Barbarian 12*  (medium native outsider, ECL 17)
*Alignment:* Chaotic Neutral
*Patron Deity:* Baphomet
*Region:* Here, there, everywhere.
*Height:* 7' 5''
*Weight:* 459lbs
*Hair:* Gray-brown
*Eyes:* Dark brown
*Age:* 21

*Str:* 24 (+7) [rage 30 (+10)]
*Dex:* 18 (+4) 
*Con:* 19 (+4) [rage 25 (+7)]
*Int:* 11 (+0)  
*Wis:* 10 (+0)  
*Cha:* 8 (-1) 

*Class and Racial Abilities:*
Three levels of outsider.  _Darkness_ 1/day as a 12th level caster.  Powerful Charge – When charging, the baphitaur can bring its horns to bear, allowing it to make a gore attack that deals 2d6+3 damage.  +3 natural armor.  Can rage 1/day as 1st level barbarian.  Natural Cunning – Immune to _maze_ spells, cannot be lost, and can track its enemies.  Is never flat-footed.  +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.  Darkvision 60 ft.  Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5.  Scent.  Rage 6/day (greater rage, lasts 15 rounds), fast movement, illiteracy, uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge, Trap sense +4, damage reduction 3/- 

*Hit Dice:* (2d8) 3d8 + 12d12 + 68
*HP:* 208
*Rage HP:*  259
*AC:* 27 (+4 Dex, +3 natural, +10 armor, and 20% miss chance, 25 in rage)
*Init:* +4 (+4 Dex)
*Speed:* 50ft 

*Saves:*
Fortitude +20 [+11 base, +4 Con, +5 from cloak] 
Reflex +16 [+7 base, +4 Dex, +5 from cloak]
Will +12 [+7 base, +0 Wis, +5 from cloak]
[In Rage, Fort is +23, Will is +15]

*BAB/(Grapple):* +15/+10/+5/(+22 or +25 raged)
*Melee Atk:*Greataxe  +28 (1d12+15 +1 Con/19-20/x3) or gore +22 melee (1d6+10)
*Full Atk:*  Greataxe  +28/+23/+18 (1d12+15 +1 Con/19-20/x3) and gore +23 melee (1d6+7)
*Rage:*  +36/+31/+26 (1d12+20 +1 Con/19-20/x3) and gore +26 (1d6+7)
*Ranged Atk:* light crossbow +19 (1d8/19-20/x2, 80 ft. range, P)

*Skills:*
Climb +12 [12 ranks, +2 Str, -2 armor check penalty]
Intimidate +20 [21 ranks, -1 Cha]
Jump +17 [12 ranks, +2 Str, -2 armor check penalty, +5 boots]
Listen +23 [21 ranks, +0 Wis, +2 racial]
Move Silently +5 [6 ranks, +1 Dex, -2 armor check penalty]
Search +8 [6 ranks, +0 Wis, +2 racial]
Spot +8 [6 ranks, +0 Wis, +2 racial]
Survival +16 [16 ranks, +0 Wis, +18 when following tracks]


*Feats:*
Cleave (bonus)
Power Attack (bonus)
Extra Rage (1st)
Extended Rage (3rd)
Greater Resiliency (6th)
Weapon Focus (greataxe) (9th)
Improved Critical (greataxe) (12th)

*Languages:*  Undercommon

*Equipment:*

*Shadow Stalker (as +5 death ward breastplate of nimbleness)* - 64,350gp
*Crusher (as +5 wounding adamantine greataxe)* - 101,320gp
*Belt of giant’s strength +6* (36,000gp)
*Gauntlets of dexterity +6* (36,000gp)
*Amulet of health +6* (36,000gp)
*Boots of speed and striding and springing* (17,500gp)
*Cloak of resistance +5* (25,000gp)
*Belt of displacement, minor* (24,000gp)
Belt pouch containing 180gp
*Bag of holding 1*
Light crossbow
Bedroll
Knucklebones

Thorak’s mother was a tiefling captive of a powerful wizard.  A man obsessed with making the perfect guardian, he mixed the tieflings blood with that of a minotaur, and ended up creating one of the rare true baphitaurs.  Smarter than the average minotaur, with some of the magical abilities of both the bloodlines, and still possessing the minotaur’s rugged strength, Thorak was raised to be a bodyguard to the powerful.  

It was hardly a unique story in the Underdark, nor was the tragedy that followed, as the wizard’s enemies raised his stronghold and seized what he had.  Clever enough to escape, Thorak lived on the fringes for a time, occasionally allying himself to the powerful or any other that could hold his attention and loyalty.  Sometimes he even would join a fairly weak, if clever enemy, just because their enemies would bring Thorak lots of heads to crack.  Narcelia was one such, somewhat weak in body, but strong in magic, and with a large passel of worthy enemies that needed killing.  She’s not too overly cruel to him, and Thorak’s tendency to say little has rather endeared him to the matron.  

Thorak slightly resembles a minotaur, with the bull-like head, horns, and hooves, but he is not quite as large as a normal minotaur.  However, he is quite well muscled, and enjoys a good fight.  Thorak lives to break heads, often using his _darkness_ abilities to befuddle enemies, then charging through to catch them on his horns.  If he’s not crushing something he generally bored, but will generally keep himself occupied by sharpening his axe or playing knucklebones.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Cohort for Teliek:




That's PA character I think you mean Seonaid character whose name is Narcelia.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Gurg, yeah, that's what I meant, sorry.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Gurg, yeah, that's what I meant, sorry.




No need to say you’re sorry.   I do like him though and I'm sure that Kilcif will appreciate not being the ugliest member of the party.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

And here are the cohorts for Torellan.  I didn't use the full amount of gold (I used around 17th level wealth) because we have quite enough people running around here, thank you very much.  You can expand on their personalities and junk if you want.

*Velisa Feathersong
Female Vampire Avariel Elf Rogue 10*  (medium undead, ECL 21)
*Alignment:* Chaotic Evil
*Patron Deity:* Vhaeraun
*Region:* Master’s
*Height:* 5' 2''
*Weight:* 72lbs
*Hair:* Black
*Eyes:* Blue
*Age:* 129

*Str:* 16 (+3) 
*Dex:* 22 (+6) 
*Con:* - 
*Int:* 14 (+2)  
*Wis:* 15 (+2)  
*Cha:* 17 (+3) 

*Class and Racial Abilities:*
Level adjustment +10. +6 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Int, +2 Wis, +6 Cha. No Constitution. +6 Natural Armor. Immune to _sleep_ spells and effecs, +2 racial versus Enchantment spells and effects. Medium size. +8 racial on Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Sense Motive, +10 on Listen and Search, and +12 racial on Spot checks, detect secret doors within 5 ft as if actively searching. Alternate Form (Bat, Dire Bat, Dire Wolf, or Wolf) (Su), Blood Drain (1d4 Con on pin) (Ex), Children of the Night (1/day summon d6+1 rat swars, d4+1 bat swarms, or 3d6 wolves. Arrive in 2d6 rounds, last 1 hour) (Su), Create Spawn (Control 20HD of vampires or vampire Spawn created) (Su), Damage Reduction 10/silver and magic, Dominate (As _dominate person_, CL 12, but only within 30ft and must meet gaze, DC 18) (Su), Energy Drain (bestow 2 negative levels on natural attack, 1/round, gain 10 temp HP) (Su), Fast Healing 5, Gaseous Form (As spell, except Fly 20ft (perfect), no limit, CL 5) (Su), Resistances cold 10, electricity 10, Spider Climb (As spell) (Ex), Turn Resistance +4, Undead Traits.  +4 racial on Jump checks, Proficient with rapier, lasso, and bolas.  Low light vision, darkvision 60 ft. (all undead traits).  

Sneak attack +5d6, trapfinding, evasion, uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge, trap sense +3, crippling strike


*Hit Dice:* (11d8) + 10d8 
*HP:* 128
*AC:* 27 (+6 Dex, +6 natural, +9 armor)
*Init:* +10 (+10 Dex)
*Speed:* 40ft., fly 50 ft. average.  Cannot fly if carrying more than Medium load, wearing Heavy armor, are fatigued or exhausted.  Must have at least have wingspan (12 feet) to fly.  Can make a dive (like charge, but descend 30 ft. with piercing weapon) 

*Saves:*
Fortitude +8 [+3 base, +5 from cloak] 
Reflex +20 [+7 base, +6 Dex, +2 Lightning Reflexes, +5 from cloak]
Will +10 [+3 base, +2 Wis, +5 from cloak]

*BAB/(Grapple):* +7/+2/(+10)
*Melee Atk:*  sword of subtlety +15 (1d6+8/19-20/x2)
*Full Atk:*  sword of subtlety +15/+10 (1d6+8/19-20/x2) or slam +13/+8 (1d6+3) *Ranged Atk:* light crossbow +12 (1d8/19-20/x2, 80 ft. range, P)

*Skills:*  130 skill points
Balance +10 [+6 Dex, +2 synergy, +2 Agile]
Bluff +11 [+3 Cha, +8 racial]
Climb +3 [+3 Str]
Disable Device +17 [13 ranks, +2 Int, +2 Nimble Fingers]
Escape Artist +29 [+6 Dex, +2 Agile, +6 vest of escape, +15 armor]
Hide +42 [13 ranks, +6 Dex, +8 racial, +15 armor]
Jump +10 [+2 Str, +4 racial, +2 synergy, +2 Acrobatic]
Listen +25 [13 ranks, +2 Wis, +10 racial]
Move Silently +42 [13 ranks, +6 Dex, +8 racial, +15 armor]
Open Lock +25 [13 ranks, +6 Dex, +2 Nimble Fingers, +4 vest of escape]
Search +25 [13 ranks, +2 Int, +10 racial]
Sense Motive +10 [+2 Wis, +8 racial]
Sleight of Hand +19 [13 ranks, +6 Dex]
Spot +27 [13 ranks, +2 Wis, +12 racial]
Tumble +21 [13 ranks, +6 Dex, +2 Acrobatic]
Use Magic Device +16 [13 ranks, +3 Cha]


*Feats:*
Alertness (bonus)
Combat Reflexes (bonus)
Dodge (bonus)
Improved Initiative (bonus)
Lightning Reflexes (bonus)
Nimble Fingers (1st)
Agile (3rd)
Dash (6th)
Acrobatic (9th)


*Languages:*  Undercommon

*Equipment:*

*+5 greater shadow greater silent moves greater slick mithril shirt)* – 126,250gp
*+5 sword of subtlety* (70,310gp)
*Ring of nine deaths* (as _ring of nine lives_) – 70,000gp
*Boots of speed and striding and springing* (17,500gp)
*Cloak of resistance +5* (25,000gp)
Belt pouch containing 180gp
*Bag of holding 1* (2,500gp)
Masterwork thieves’ tools
Light crossbow
Bedroll

~~~


*Veshila Feathersong
Female Vampire Avariel Elf Rogue 10*  (medium undead, ECL 21)
*Alignment:* Chaotic Evil
*Patron Deity:* Vhaeraun
*Region:* Master’s
*Height:* 5' 2''
*Weight:* 72lbs
*Hair:* Black
*Eyes:* Blue
*Age:* 129

*Str:* 16 (+3) 
*Dex:* 22 (+6) 
*Con:* - 
*Int:* 14 (+2)  
*Wis:* 15 (+2)  
*Cha:* 17 (+3) 

*Class and Racial Abilities:*
Level adjustment +10. +6 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Int, +2 Wis, +6 Cha. No Constitution. +6 Natural Armor. Immune to _sleep_ spells and effecs, +2 racial versus Enchantment spells and effects. Medium size. +8 racial on Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Sense Motive, +10 on Listen and Search, and +12 racial on Spot checks, detect secret doors within 5 ft as if actively searching. Alternate Form (Bat, Dire Bat, Dire Wolf, or Wolf) (Su), Blood Drain (1d4 Con on pin) (Ex), Children of the Night (1/day summon d6+1 rat swars, d4+1 bat swarms, or 3d6 wolves. Arrive in 2d6 rounds, last 1 hour) (Su), Create Spawn (Control 20HD of vampires or vampire Spawn created) (Su), Damage Reduction 10/silver and magic, Dominate (As _dominate person_, CL 12, but only within 30ft and must meet gaze, DC 18) (Su), Energy Drain (bestow 2 negative levels on natural attack, 1/round, gain 10 temp HP) (Su), Fast Healing 5, Gaseous Form (As spell, except Fly 20ft (perfect), no limit, CL 5) (Su), Resistances cold 10, electricity 10, Spider Climb (As spell) (Ex), Turn Resistance +4, Undead Traits.  +4 racial on Jump checks, Proficient with rapier, lasso, and bolas.  Low light vision, darkvision 60 ft. (all undead traits).  

Sneak attack +5d6, trapfinding, evasion, uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge, trap sense +3, opportunist


*Hit Dice:* (11d8) + 10d8 
*HP:* 128
*AC:* 18 (+6 Dex, +6 natural)
*Init:* +10 (+10 Dex)
*Speed:* 40ft., fly 50 ft. average.  Cannot fly if carrying more than Medium load, wearing Heavy armor, are fatigued or exhausted.  Must have at least have wingspan (12 feet) to fly.  Can make a dive (like charge, but descend 30 ft. with piercing weapon) 

*Saves:*
Fortitude +8 [+3 base, +5 from cloak] 
Reflex +20 [+7 base, +6 Dex, +2 Lightning Reflexes, +5 from cloak]
Will +10 [+3 base, +2 Wis, +5 from cloak]

*BAB/(Grapple):* +7/+2/(+10)
*Melee Atk:*  quarterstaff of battle +13 (1d6+6/x2)
*Full Atk:*  quarterstaff of battle +13/+8 (1d6+6/x2) or slam +13/+8 (1d6+3)
*Ranged Atk:* light crossbow +19 (1d8/19-20/x2, 80 ft. range, P)

*Skills:*
Bluff +26 [13 ranks, +3 Cha, +8 racial, +2 Persuasive]
Climb +3 [+3 Str]
Decipher Script +15 [13 ranks, +2 Int]
Diplomacy +22 [13 ranks, +3 Cha, +4 synergy, +2 Negotiator]
Disguise +18 [13 ranks, +3 Cha, +2 synergy]
Escape Artist +21 [+6 Dex, +15 armor]
Forgery +15 [13 ranks, +2 Int]
Gather Information +16 [13 ranks, +3 Cha]
Hide +29 [+6 Dex, +8 racial, +15 armor]
Intimidate +20 [13 ranks, +3 Cha, +2 synergy, +2 Persuasive]
Jump +6 [+2 Str, +4 racial]
Listen +25 [13 ranks, +2 Wis, +10 racial]
Move Silently +29 [+6 Dex, +8 racial, +15 armor]
Search +12 [+2 Wis, +10 racial]
Sense Motive +25 [13 ranks, +2 Wis, +8 racial, +2 Negotiator]
Spot +27 [13 ranks, +2 Wis, +12 racial]


*Feats:*
Alertness (bonus)
Combat Reflexes (bonus)
Dodge (bonus)
Improved Initiative (bonus)
Lightning Reflexes (bonus)
Persuasive (1st)
Negotiator (3rd)
Quick Draw (6th)
Flick of the Wrist (9th)


*Languages:*  Undercommon, Common, Elven, Drow Sign Language

*Equipment:*

* +5 greater shadow greater silent moves greater slick mithril shirt)* – 126,250gp
*quarterstaff of battle* (162,600gp)
*Boots of speed and striding and springing* (17,500gp)
*Cloak of resistance +5* (25,000gp)
Belt pouch containing 180gp
*Bag of holding 1*
silver dagger
Light crossbow
Bedroll

Valisa and Vashila are identical twin avariel girls Torellan stole from their daylight aeries and brought down into darkness with him.  Both were exceptionally beautiful, exceptionally skilled, and once brought over to undeath, exceptionally evil.  Valisa is the quieter of the two, a skilled thief and escape artist, while Vashila is an outgoing, lovely, diplomat with a heart as black as night.


----------



## Uriel (May 24, 2004)

Jeezus Kryst, you people post a lot on weekends...

I got off of a 14 hour shift at the club at 8am ,went to sleep and woke about an hour ago, off again in 10 minutes...and there are what, 3 new pages of OoC!?!?

Changing the name of my Cohort, as Varillia and Velisa and Veshila would be confusing...


Methinks that something beginning with an R, perhaps...

Off to werk, ugh.

-Uriel


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

what we have like six cohorts now????


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

It's freaking insane... but you're playing them all!  BWAHAHAHA!

I have a gazillion NPCs to play as it is.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> It's freaking insane... but you're playing them all!  BWAHAHAHA!




Indeed, I am sorry...  :\   I sent you an email btw.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Ok everyone, I just Laid Down the Law in the first post.  Please peruse and tell me what you think.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok everyone, I just Laid Down the Law in the first post.  Please peruse and tell me what you think.




You indeed did law down the law...    But I don't agree we only have 7 cohorts and we have 8 players..  So it's very close to being double but not quite.  

Anyhow in all seriousness I see no issue with that and I sent you another email btw. 

edit:  Oh I thought my hatred of Internet Dice rollers was legendary...  Guess not.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Meh, if you hate them with an unholy passion don't use them.  I just thought I'd throw that out.  They're particularly useful for spellcasters with with large-damage spells.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Meh, if you hate them with an unholy passion don't use them.




Not sure if it's unholy, but golly it sure is passion...  If I thought it would still be around I sure would go and find the thread from that old game and my small tirade that happened cause of it.


----------



## Serpenteye (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok everyone, I just Laid Down the Law in the first post.  Please peruse and tell me what you think.




I like it. Anything that will help the game flow faster is fine by me. 
I changed my character's name, btw, because the old one was too similar to Tierak's and it had already caused some confusion. I might change the name again before we start if I come up with something better.


----------



## Xael (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok everyone, I just Laid Down the Law in the first post. Please peruse and tell me what you think.



Looks fine.



> Meh, if you hate them with an unholy passion don't use them. I just thought I'd throw that out. They're particularly useful for spellcasters with with large-damage spells.



Bah! Dice rollers are for wussies! Real wizards roll every 32d6 for _Meteor Swarm_ (or 36d6 for _Disintegrate_)!

Of course you can make some exceptions. Like with the Dragonball Z RPG, where you'd need to roll 300d6 with beginning characters...


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Ok, and I have one small change to my beginning post.  Because I put the time and effort into making them, I am going to RP the cohorts that I have made.  Cool?  Cool.


----------



## Uriel (May 24, 2004)

Seonaid, your armor caps at +10 points worth of Bonus...

Your Ioun Stone and Periapt don't stack (Ioun stone is wasetd GP at this point).



Brother Shatterstone: I had the Cohort angle before any of you decided you wanted one, so there!
just because I haven't posted my Munchkin yet doesnt mean that he (and his Demon-Spawned Girlfriend) aren't floating out there  Limbo... 

My head hurts. I threw an hour or 2 into Eol after werk...

I spent 256,228 GP on returning/bane daggers...

Dagger Attacks at + 24/24/24/24/24/24/19/19/19/19/14/14 @ 1D4+7 crit 17-20/X3, +5D6 Sneakon 6 of them, various Bane etc...and all Ranged Touch Attacks... Hehehe <+2 higher within 30'>

Not too shabby at +25/25/20/20/15 in melee either 1D4+10 (+5 D6 sneak on each if he wins Init )  Crit 17-20/X3. 
Pretty decent for a guy who only carries Knives...

Off to sleep.

Someone help my befuddled brain out and throw me out a number for combined Boots of Speed/Elvenkind and Winged features...


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Sorry Uriel, you can only get sneak attack on one attack per round.


----------



## Xael (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sorry Uriel, you can only get sneak attack on one attack per round.



Umm, any more house rules? Would be nice to know.


----------



## Uriel (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sorry Uriel, you can only get sneak attack on one attack per round.




Not according to the rules. As long as someone is denied Dex (such as when I go first, or if they are Flanked), I get the Sneak.

It's right under 'Number of Sneak Attacks' 
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a

Trust me, I went crazy as a DM in 3.0 because it wasn't spelled out and a Player in my Campaign  had a halfling Rogue who kept sneaking everything...

It's not like I have 9th level spells or anything.



-Uriel


PS:Off to sleep...


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Ok, having read the Sage's article, I will conceed to multiple sneak attacks on a flanked or surprised target.  

However, Uriel would you please break down how you got your massive number of attacks?  I don't doubt you, I just want to see the breakdown from your feats and stuff.


----------



## Pyrex (May 24, 2004)

I'm back and I've managed to catch up on the 6 pages of posts y'all have posted over the weekend.

To keep things from getting too out of hand I'll *not* be taking Leadership.

Since I didn't manage to get it posted before I left I'll try to get my summary post up today.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Sorry Uriel, you can only get sneak attack on one attack per round.



Oops reading old news,  I see no issue with this if its house ruled for the good of the game.. 



			
				Xael said:
			
		

> Umm, any more house rules? Would be nice to know.



I'm not sure if you where being rude, I don't think you where, but I would like to take this second to remind everyone just how insane of a task this is...  We have 15 people, all of them high leveled and four characters who are in epic levels based upon their ECL.  So please be nice to nice to Isida and do expect a few hours rules and such.


----------



## Xael (May 24, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if you where being rude, I don't think you where, but I would like to take this second to remind everyone just how insane of a task this is... We have 15 people, all of them high leveled and four characters who are in epic levels based upon their ECL. So please be nice to nice to Isida and do expect a few hours rules and such.



I didn't intend to be rude (might have seemed that way again), but the "1 SA per round" isn't that unusual house rule IMHO, and I just wanted to if there's any more. I mean, most people prefer to mess with some spells or something so they might affect me too. 

And it's nice to know before the game has actually started or you're casting a house-ruled spell.  And I always expect some house rules.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Well, it wasn't a house rule to me, I thought that was how the game was played.  However, as I said above, after reading the article, I conceed to the Sage.

Most of the house rules I have given you guys are to your benefit:  extra hit points for ECL, extra free regional feat, and PC gear for your cohorts.  So please do not jump on my back if I put forth a rule I thought was part of the game.    I don't think I have any more house rules though.


----------



## Xael (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Well, it wasn't a house rule to me, I thought that was how the game was played. However, as I said above, after reading the article, I conceed to the Sage.



Yeah, from 2 possibilities, I assumed the wrong one. That's clear now. 



> Most of the house rules I have given you guys are to your benefit: extra hit points for ECL, extra free regional feat, and PC gear for your cohorts. So please do not jump on my back if I put forth a rule I thought was part of the game.  I don't think I have any more house rules though.



Hey, no problem. Just one question though: What "extra free regional feat"? :\


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Ak, I forgot to put that.  For all my FR games I like to give everyone a free regional feat for roleplaying purposes.  So... take your free feat!


----------



## Pyrex (May 24, 2004)

I don't have handy access to my FRCS at the moment.

What feats are available for 'Region: Underdark'?


----------



## Serpenteye (May 24, 2004)

What regions give Educated or Cosmopolitan?


----------



## Xael (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ak, I forgot to put that. For all my FR games I like to give everyone a free regional feat for roleplaying purposes. So... take your free feat!



From FRCS or from Player's Guide to Faerûn? PGtF chances some feats (cosmopolitan has changed much) but has a bunch of more (some of which are just sick/lovely).


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

There is no Underdark region.  But there is a drow region.

Comopolitan can only be taken if you're from Amn or Waterdeep.  Education is only for Amn, Chessenta, Cormyr, Evermeet, Lantan, Mulhorand, Sembit, Silverymoon, Waterdeep, moon elf, sun elf.

If you're a drow, I'm afraid you cannot practically take any of those regions.  I just don't see a drow being raised in any one of those regions in a way that he can take advantage of those feats.

But the Drow region has the Daylight Adaptation, Stealthy, Survivor, and Twin Sword Style feats.  Though do be kind to the DM and realize that these feats are more for roleplaying purposes.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

I have now edited my first post to include the books allowed.

I do not own the Player's Guide to Faerun.  Therefore we will not be using the Player's Guide to Faerun.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> From FRCS or from Player's Guide to Faerûn? PGtF chances some feats (cosmopolitan has changed much) but has a bunch of more (some of which are just sick/lovely).




I will get any feats chosen that have updated feats to Isida, I also know that she had no issue with any of the new regional feats I had looked upon for bugbears. 

Edit:  Oops, I've been running off old data all morning...  I hate hectic days.  If Isida is happy with the above cool, if not sorry everyone.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Pretty much it's what I said in the previous thread.  If I don't own it, e-mail what you want to me or I can't approve it.


----------



## Pyrex (May 24, 2004)

Name:  Carcelon Millithor
Race:  Drow
Align: CE
Class: Cleric of Lolth 17 / Heirophant 1

Campaign History:
Since the beginning of the silence, Carcelons faith had been tested
many times.  Perhaps the most significant test was the encounter with
the shade of Alisanarra Morcane in the desecrated temple of Szith 
Morcane.  When Carcelon survived even though her mother was slain (and
subsequently reanimated as a revenant), leaving her as the last living
priestess of House Millithor, she knew she was destined to become 
Matron one day.  Narcelia's unexpected return has slowed down her plans
a bit, but being unusually patient for a Drow, Carcelon is content to
wait and see how Narcelia handles the reigns of power...

Once they had taken control of Szith Morcane, Carcelon (along with 
Kripp and Kilcif) went to the lake of shadows to speak with _That
Which Swims in Darnkess_ where she was shown a vision of the Wand
of Orcus and told that its destruction would end Lolth's silence.
Before returning to Szith Morcane, Narcelia suddenly reappeared,
speaking of dreams of being kept in a zoo by mind flayers.  
Carcelon has never completely trusted since then, as it's seems to 
Carcelon that Narcelia didn't come back, she was sent back, but it's
unknown by who and for what purpose.

After the attack by Badrazel, Carcelon realized that while she wanted
to see Irae taken down she had little interest in doing it personally.

With the assistance of the others she spent the next few weeks sneaking 
around dropping clues trying to lure either Endur & co. or the heroes of
the sword coast into attacking Irae hoping that they'd kill each other
off leaving the surviving members of the house free to rebuild their home
in Menzoberranzan.

After the return to Menzoberranzan and the end of the silence, Carcelon found
her continued faith in Lolth justified, she assisted in rebuilding the house
(starting with the temple) and began working with Tierak and Matron Banere to
restore L'Tar'annen de’l Elgluth.

Current Status:
In addition to seeing to the maintenance and performance of rites in the House's
temple, Carcelon oversees trade relations for House Millithor (though as Matron,
Narcelia is in charge of larger negotiations and signing contracts).

Carcelon's quarters in the Millithor compound are warded with a (CL 22, DC 26)
_Empowered Forbiddance_ set to CE with no password.  In her quarters there
is a heavy chest with a 'Superior' (DC 40) lock warded with an (CL 22, DC 26) 
_Empowered Greater Glyph of Warding_ set to deal [sonic] damage.

Enemies:
Endur & Django
The illithid inquisitor Klaxeon


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Though do be kind to the DM and realize that these feats are more for roleplaying purposes.




Some of them drow feats have been replaced...  Stealthy went bye bye, its core 3.5, and was replaced by the regional feat that Kilcif has.  (I forget it's name.)

Isida, is Kilcif's regional feat to powerful for free?  I mean I paid for it before hand so I have no issue with the continued need to pay for it. 

Also can we buy a regional feat on top of having on for free?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Eh, I'd prefer you to take one of the less spectacular feats for free Bro.  And you can use one of your own slots to get a regional feat of course, that's the point.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Eh, I'd prefer you to take one of the less spectacular feats for free Bro.  And you can use one of your own slots to get a regional feat of course, that's the point.




cool, I don't remember the name of it but is the grappling feat an okay one?  

It might have been knifefighter or something like that.  The other Bugbear one would be pointless as Kilcif is immune to poison now.


----------



## Dalamar (May 24, 2004)

The twins are COOL!

One question, though: How is Vestila going to use Flick of the Wrist when she doesn't have a light weapon that she can draw?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

Grappling is fine.  Grapple away!


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Grappling is fine.  Grapple away!




Cool.    I appreciate the extra regional feats as I really liked the knifefighter feat too... 

Oh for anyone looking at picking up your free regional feat please list them.  I would hate for me to miss the updated copy of them if there is one.


----------



## Dalamar (May 24, 2004)

Oh, another thing I noticed of the twins: they have listed the ability mods of a drow vampire (+6 Str, Dex, Cha, +4 Int, +2 Wis) instead of those of the avariel drow (+8 Dex, +6 Str, +4 Int, Wis, Cha)


----------



## Dalamar (May 24, 2004)

And a third thing: can I count the vampire template's Int increase from level 1? Technically it doesn't into play before next level


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

I actually did add in the avariel stats when I made them, but I copied the racial traits over from your sheets, so there are still some drow hang overs.  And I'm not going to worry about the skill points.


----------



## Dalamar (May 24, 2004)

What about Vestila's Flick of the Wrist and the lack of a drawable light weapon?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2004)

She should have a dagger.  I think I put a silver dagger in her list.  If it's not, please put it in there.  It's mostly meant as a last resort thing for her.

You can get other mundane supplies for them too.


----------



## Seonaid (May 24, 2004)

Xael said:
			
		

> Seonaid, umm, I'm not sure you could afford a weapon with total bonus of +15... Or that armor and that shield. :\ They're rather epic...



Erm, . First of all, that's going to change (and already has), but second of all--how are bonuses calculated? Are they cumulative before or after cost? That is, do I add up the bonuses and then calculate the cost, or do I calculate the cost of each bonus and add those together? Or am I missing something entirely, and it's neither? Because with the chart I used in the DMG, I had plenty of cash (I used the second method).

Feel free to correct me on anything and everything! I honestly don't mind at all.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 24, 2004)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Erm, . First of all, that's going to change (and already has), but second of all--how are bonuses calculated?




They are indeed cumulative meaning if you have a +5 weapon, and it's also a vorpal weapon you have a total of a +10.  Note +10 is the highest you can go in non-epic level. Besides you can't afford +11 anyhow.


----------



## Pyrex (May 24, 2004)

You add up the bonuses then calculate cost.

Ex:  +5 Armor of Heavy Fortification (+5) is a total bonus of +10 and costs 100,000gp (plus the cost of MW armor)


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (May 25, 2004)

Isida, as the prereq Survivor feat is granted by the regional bonus, I've decided to take Landlord to replace it.  Are there any houserules or personal preferences I should be aware of before I do this, and build my stronghold?


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 25, 2004)

Well, aside from the fact that I want a full break-down, and a map would be cool, nope.  Oh, and you can use stuff from Dragon #295, the Castle issue, if you want to too.  Oh, and underground earth walls are free, as well as underground unworked stone walls.


----------



## Seonaid (May 25, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> My character will be weaker, rather than stronger than the others in the group. It is only in the short term that my character has the potential to be more powerful than yours.



Don't worry. Just stick close to Narcelia, prove your worth, and you'll be fine. At least until you piss her off, or she finds a more worthy (i.e., less human) companion. 


> Leadership might not be apropriate for a character who would have no political power in the House or the party. How could I justify playing the greatest leader in the group while being a follower?



I haven't looked into Leadership seriously yet, so unless I should be (and someone will need to knock me over the head with the clue bat) Narcelia is not taking it.


			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Seonaid, what is your final leadership score?
> . . .
> Cohort for Narcelia



I'm sorry, I haven't calculated that. I don't even know how. I wasn't planning on taking Leadership, if that matters.
Thanks, my cohort looks spectacular! Sorry for not replying sooner. My computer has permanent issues. 

If I'm too slow with this rewrite (I would have had it done but for my computer's spectacular death), just take Narcelia as-is, and let me know what's wrong with it.







			
				Uriel said:
			
		

> Seonaid, your armor caps at +10 points worth of Bonus...
> 
> Your Ioun Stone and Periapt don't stack (Ioun stone is wasetd GP at this point).



Thanks for the armor note. Thanks to BS also, that clears things up immensely.

Thanks also about the ioun stone. I'll nix it post-haste.

Can someone detail the regional feats from which I can take my bonus feat? I don't have the FRCS. If it's not cool, uh, PM me if you can. 

First post looks good to me.



			
				Pyrex said:
			
		

> Carcelon has never completely trusted since then, as it's seems to Carcelon that Narcelia didn't come back, she was sent back, but it's
> unknown by who and for what purpose.



Lovely! I haven't really considered this option (though I certainly should have), but it's _such_ a good hook. Endur is _so_ evil.

Also, Narcelia would have spells set into her chambers (and the House, if possible) in Menzo, similar to those detailed by Pyrex for Carcelon. Should I list those for you?

Note that, not to be a pain, the lack of a computer at home means that anything I do/change/add will take extra time.


----------



## Dalamar (May 25, 2004)

I finally finished Torellan's skills. I included the bonus for all skills that can be used untrained in addition to those that he has ranks in.


----------



## Seonaid (May 25, 2004)

Also, does the +10 limit apply to armor and shield, or just weapon?


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (May 25, 2004)

One more little question: may I hire staff of higher than normal capabilities, and if so, how much will their maintenance increase by?  I was imagining a doubling per level increase, so where a Clr1 costs 30 gp/month, a Clr2 would cost 60, a Clr3 120, etc.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 25, 2004)

Seonaid, the plus 10 limit holds true on both armor and weapons.  Look at the DMG.

Paxus - That pricing is ok with me.


----------



## Uriel (May 25, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok, having read the Sage's article, I will conceed to multiple sneak attacks on a flanked or surprised target.
> 
> However, Uriel would you please break down how you got your massive number of attacks?  I don't doubt you, I just want to see the breakdown from your feats and stuff.





No problem

Base is +15/10/5
I have 2 wpn fighting and superior 2 weapon fighting, thus a second attack at highest and a second at my second in melee.

I am 99% sure that you meant the ranged full attack numbers, however.

One at +15/10/5 base, 2 wpn fighting, improved 2 weapon fighting and one for rapid shot. That is 6 knives.

Palm strike allows you to throw 2 knives at a time for each throw, thus the 12 knives. Actually, I misposted, due to the fact that you only roll once for both kmives, so my Ranged F A line will look like this;
+25/+25/+25/+20/+20/+15.

The second knives in each throw can't crit and do not gain the option of adding Sneak damage.

Strength is not added to any of the daggers in this case, although my Int mod is (Insightful Strike).

I hope that this lessens the headache...


----------



## Seonaid (May 25, 2004)

Sorry, Isida. I have not read the DMG and only refer to it when I need to. :\ I will remedy that.


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 25, 2004)

Ok Uriel, I get it now.  Thanks.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (May 25, 2004)

A rough draft of House Morcane has been appended to Tierak's character sheet.  Lacking any map-drawing program, or the knowledge of how to post it if I had one, I will for the moment give a rough description of the layout in the post.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 25, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Lacking any map-drawing program, or the knowledge of how to post it if I had one, I will for the moment give a rough description of the layout in the post.





Do you have a scanner?    If so you can email me your drawing and I would be happy to scan it and also host it for you or you can download that demo of Dundjinni and take a stab at that.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (May 25, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Do you have a scanner?    If so you can email me your drawing and I would be happy to scan it and also host it for you or you can download that demo of Dundjinni and take a stab at that.




Sadly, I lack a scanner, and the Dundjinni demo won't install.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 25, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Sadly, I lack a scanner, and the Dundjinni demo won't install.




Well break out some graph paper, and a stamp and mail it to me...  I'm just a short swim away in all.


----------



## Uriel (May 25, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Do you have a scanner?    If so you can email me your drawing and I would be happy to scan it and also host it for you or you can download that demo of Dundjinni and take a stab at that.





Dundjinni rocks...

Oh, here I am, btw

http://www.dundjinni.com/news/2003_12_19.htm

I'm Ron, the blue haired guy with a thumbs up at gencon.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 25, 2004)

Uriel said:
			
		

> I'm Ron, the blue haired guy with a thumbs up at gencon.



I'm not very impressed with the blue hair as if you hadn't said something I wouldn't have noticed.  Blue should be blue and not so black... 

I was much more impressed with the inspiration for your characters "Demon-Spawned Girlfriend."


----------



## Serpenteye (May 25, 2004)

Uriel said:
			
		

> I'm Ron, the blue haired guy with a thumbs up at gencon.




I had pictured you looking a bit more Marilyn Mansonesque. You're not as scary as I had imagined .


----------



## Uriel (May 25, 2004)

Sorry to disappoint,haha.
You'd be more impressed if you watched the stylist (my X-gf/x-roomate) at work.She does an amazing job.It is quite blue though (with 3 green streaks).
That picture was right after I got off of crutches for the broken ankle/torn knee ligaments. Woohoo for putting on 23 pounds! Go inactivity!!!

I'll try and look more scary/manson-esque in the next picture.

Um, I was hung over...that's sort of scary (Well, it was miserable, at least...).


----------



## Dalamar (May 26, 2004)

Made some minor changes to Torellan's history, namely to reflect the fact that I have realised a way for Torellan to overcome his 'problem'. 

So, when we have days off, Quertus needs to prepare three _polymorphs_. And if the wizard asks real nicely, he might get to join in on the fun.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 28, 2004)

Kilcif's history should be complete...  Isida I didn't email it to you but if you need or want changes please say so...  Cohort is also posted, but it still needs to be converted to Isida format.


----------



## Serpenteye (May 28, 2004)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> Made some minor changes to Torellan's history, namely to reflect the fact that I have realised a way for Torellan to overcome his 'problem'.
> 
> So, when we have days off, Quertus needs to prepare three _polymorphs_. And if the wizard asks real nicely, he might get to join in on the fun.




Iirc, Polymorph doesn't change your type. You'll still be Undead, even if you're polymorphed into a living Drow.
 It could be reasoned that undead; creatures strongly tied to death, are unable to achieve an erection; a state so strongly connected with the fundamental process of creating life. Otoh vampires are often portrayed as sex-fiends, and as such should have no problem performing.
Whatever stance the DM takes I doubt Polymorph will be a solution for your problem. Shapechange would work, though.


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## Pyrex (May 28, 2004)

SRD said:
			
		

> *Polymorph*
> Transmutation
> Level: Sor/Wiz 4
> ...The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form...




Actually, _Polymorph_ does change your type.


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## Serpenteye (May 28, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Actually, _Polymorph_ does change your type.




oops   .But the duration is only 1 minute per level, which is not really long enough.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 28, 2004)

Gentlemen, I would like to try to get this game started.  I will beginning on Tuesday, June 2nd, so characters not completed by that date without prior arrangements will be fed to Lolth.

*Serpenteye* - Your character sheet is half completed, and I do not see a name for your character.  I also need any information you had that I requested (background, enemies, friends) on that sheet as well.

*Brother Shatterstone* - Minor formatting errors.  Could you please put explainations of Chosen status and Vow of Greed in your sheet somewhere?  

*Xael* - Can you put Quertus' history/enemies/allies etc. in his character sheet?

*Seonaid* - I need you to finish Narcelia's background and put the enemies/allies thing that I asked for in her sheet.

*Dalamar* - I need your cohorts put in your sheet, as well as putting your enemies/allies thing in your sheet.

*Pyrex* - I need the enemies/allies/history thing I asked for in your sheet.

*Paxus Asclepius* - Please put Tierak in the standard format, as well as bolding and spacing out your cohort/familiar/mount a little bit.  I also need her history and the enemies/allies thing I asked for.

*Uriel* - Please put Eol is standard format, add appearance/history/background as well as the enemies/allies thing I asked for.


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## Seonaid (May 28, 2004)

I'll do that tonight, Isida.

I just found out that I will not have internet access for a week, starting tomorrow. I really apologise about that, and I hope it's not a problem. If I can get online, I will, but until June 7th, no dough. Please autopilot me, or feed me to Lolth.

Edit: my character sheet is not up to date, and I haven't been able to do that because of my lack of internet access at home. (I don't know the rules well enough to fix things without my books.) I'm really sorry about this whole thing, but it looks like my compuer won't be fixed until for another two weeks.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 28, 2004)

Narcelia will be in limbo for a while then.  We'll work her in when you get your computer back.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (May 29, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> oops   .But the duration is only 1 minute per level, which is not really long enough.




People...  What are you doing???    My smart mouth, and it's six plus years of sea going corruption does not need to see these open ended chance at very preverited jokes...     At least not in mixed company.   



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *Brother Shatterstone* - Minor formatting errors.  Could you please put explainations of Chosen status and Vow of Greed in your sheet somewhere?




Roger that, but if you don't mind some clarification, your wanting me to copy the feat description and also to explain why Kilcif is now the chosen of Hruggek, correct?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 29, 2004)

Well, I meant could you put the benefits of being chosen somewhere separate on your sheet.  You can have them listed other places too, but I thought it would be nice if someone sees your sheet they can immediately pick out what a Chosen of Hruggek gets.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 29, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I thought it would be nice if someone sees your sheet they can immediately pick out what a Chosen of Hruggek gets.




Indeed it would, let me finish this one IC post and I head over there and fix that up.


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## Pyrex (May 29, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *Pyrex* - I need the enemies/allies/history thing I asked for in your sheet.




Done.  Carcelon is now updated (oops, except that I need to look up & add the 'Survivor' regional feat).


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## Seonaid (May 29, 2004)

Enemies added to Narcelia. She's as updated as she's gonna get for a while, folks. I know there are mistakes, and if you see something that's hurting you, please feel free to let me know, but when I get back I'm going to go over her with a fine-tooth comb. [Just to clarify--I'm going away on a business trip, so in addition to my home PC being dead, I won't have access because of the trip.] Have fun without me!


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## Uriel (May 29, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *Uriel* - Please put Eol is standard format, add appearance/history/background as well as the enemies/allies thing I asked for.





Gotcha...


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 29, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I thought it would be nice if someone sees your sheet they can immediately pick out what a Chosen of Hruggek gets.




Done.  

Oh you might want to double-check it but I went with both of these.



> *Chosen of Hruggek*
> 
> +4 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Con
> 
> ...




PS you might want to post your chosen template on WoTC forums: 'Post Your Chosen Templates Here' 



> *Vow of Greed* - Must always maintain wealth equal to 5%  of his wealth in liquid form of embellished arms and armor, art objects, jewelry, and money and may never, ever give anything away without payment. In return they gain +5 to Spot and Listen checks and can see invisibility 1/day (better to spot thieves).


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 29, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> PS you might want to post your chosen template on WoTC forums: 'Post Your Chosen Templates Here'




Did you post that before or after my suggestion...?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 29, 2004)

*oops....*

Isida, I forgot to post the immunities and the DR...  

Immunities:Aging, and poison

Damage Resistance: 5/Magic


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 29, 2004)

Everything should be formatted properly; enemies and allies is sparse, but so is Tierak's background.  If you'd like any particular houses of Menzoberranzan to play into either category (aside Millithor, which is unofficially allied), I'd be glad to work with you on that.  I've also got maps of House Morcane completed, but I have no idea how to put them up; they were made with AutoREALM.


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## Serpenteye (May 29, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> *Serpenteye* - Your character sheet is half completed, and I do not see a name for your character.  I also need any information you had that I requested (background, enemies, friends) on that sheet as well.




I'll finish it this weekend. I am having some difficulties with writing up a good background for him, though. You have to kill a lot of people to get to 20th level and it's hard to do that without having an impact on the setting (especially if you're that kind of character who has a focused agenda and really wants to make an impact). In other words, my character will have changed the world in some way or another, and I don't know if you will allow any changes to the setting.

The character is a pretty loyal Banite who has been working out of Zhentil Keep for most of his career, fighting the enemies of Bane in the Dales-Sembia-Cormyr area. He's focused particularly on eradicating the Harpers and plotting to turn the upper classes of the region to Baneism (elitist, darwinistic capitalism with a strong imperialistic tendency), sometimes by acting as an assassin against the rivals of his converts. He's tried to help the banites in the area build a powerful politic-economical cartel and make himself and his organization (Leadership Feat) an integral part of it's leadership. His long-term goal is to unite the region into a theo/magicratic Banite Empire by mostly peaceful means (and well-targeted acts of terrorism).

I need you to rule, in order to write my background, on just how much he has managed to civilize the region.


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## Serpenteye (May 29, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> People...  What are you doing???    My smart mouth, and it's six plus years of sea going corruption does not need to see these open ended chance at very preverited jokes...     At least not in mixed company.




 

We're all adults here, right?


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 29, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> We're all adults here, right?




Maybe...   Not everyone is wearing a tag with there age filled out.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 29, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I'll finish it this weekend. I am having some difficulties with writing up a good background for him, though. You have to kill a lot of people to get to 20th level and it's hard to do that without having an impact on the setting (especially if you're that kind of character who has a focused agenda and really wants to make an impact). In other words, my character will have changed the world in some way or another, and I don't know if you will allow any changes to the setting.
> 
> The character is a pretty loyal Banite who has been working out of Zhentil Keep for most of his career, fighting the enemies of Bane in the Dales-Sembia-Cormyr area. He's focused particularly on eradicating the Harpers and plotting to turn the upper classes of the region to Baneism (elitist, darwinistic capitalism with a strong imperialistic tendency), sometimes by acting as an assassin against the rivals of his converts. He's tried to help the banites in the area build a powerful politic-economical cartel and make himself and his organization (Leadership Feat) an integral part of it's leadership. His long-term goal is to unite the region into a theo/magicratic Banite Empire by mostly peaceful means (and well-targeted acts of terrorism).
> 
> I need you to rule, in order to write my background, on just how much he has managed to civilize the region.



  Well, I'm not going to say you managed to take over the entirety of Sembia... but a good chunk of it nevertheless.  Your tireless efforts over the years have driven the Harpers far from your borders, and your careful assassinations have taken out most of the soft-hearted nobles that would have objected to your policies.  With flattery and reward, you've managed to turn most of the nobles to your way of thinking, and established a powerful theo/magicratic country, with yourself the head of the ruling Mages' Council (with the High Priest of Bane and his church as the other half of the government).  

Your secret police force helps keep the laws as much as your more visible guards do, and your elegant, peaceful political takeover and current (overtly) non-violent adgenda has kept your neighboors off your back.  The basic trade structure and whatnot of Sembia hasn't changed too awfully much, and as long as the peasants kowtow to your new order, they accept it as just one more ruler.  The neighboring countries don't yet have reason to try to make war on you, but you're already making war on them, from the inside.  Within the few years, you will be ready to expand your empire into their weakened countries.  Not even Thay was able to be so effective.  

How does that work for you Serpenteye?  But I would also need some connection between your country and the remnents of House Millithor and House Morcane.  Both houses have managed to rebuild in the wake of the Graverending, absorbing the other, shattered houses, and are becoming the dominant power in the Underdark in their region.


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## Serpenteye (May 29, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Well, I'm not going to say you managed to take over the entirety of Sembia... but a good chunk of it nevertheless.  Your tireless efforts over the years have driven the Harpers far from your borders, and your careful assassinations have taken out most of the soft-hearted nobles that would have objected to your policies.  With flattery and reward, you've managed to turn most of the nobles to your way of thinking, and established a powerful theo/magicratic country, with yourself the head of the ruling Mages' Council (with the High Priest of Bane and his church as the other half of the government).
> 
> Your secret police force helps keep the laws as much as your more visible guards do, and your elegant, peaceful political takeover and current (overtly) non-violent adgenda has kept your neighboors off your back.  The basic trade structure and whatnot of Sembia hasn't changed too awfully much, and as long as the peasants kowtow to your new order, they accept it as just one more ruler.  The neighboring countries don't yet have reason to try to make war on you, but you're already making war on them, from the inside.  Within the few years, you will be ready to expand your empire into their weakened countries.  Not even Thay was able to be so effective.
> 
> How does that work for you Serpenteye?  But I would also need some connection between your country and the remnents of House Millithor and House Morcane.  Both houses have managed to rebuild in the wake of the Graverending, absorbing the other, shattered houses, and are becoming the dominant power in the Underdark in their region.




It works very well, better than I had dared to hope actually . 

The best way to unite two groups is almost always to give them a common enemy. The Empire of Sembia's greatest enemies are probably The Harpers (who are weakened too much to be a threat and have a lot of other concerns everywhere), The government of Cormyr (covertly, with officially decent relations. Their monarch is young and weak) and Shadowdale with Elminster (he may be powerful and well-connected enough to know about my operations in his sphere of influence but he's old and insane and may well ignore the issue until it becomes more pressing).
I will have tried to establish good relations with the City of Shade and the Red Wizards of Thay, but the thieves-guild organizations will either have been recruited into the secret police (and kept carefully monitored) or been targeted for eradication. The Cult of the Dragon definately falls in the latter category.

So, common enemies... Perhaps the Heroes of the Sword Coast in the employ of Elminster have been harrassing both my operations on the surface and the Drow's consolidation of power in the underdark. Less powerful groups sent against them have returned unsuccessful or been resurrected at great expense, leaving us (both groups seperately) forced to take care of the matter personally. We could perhaps meet each-others at the site of a raided caravan or burned-out temple, seconds after the Heroes have fled with the loot.

I would also be an enemy of most of the disruptive Chaotic religions in the region. The Empire strives to coexist with most of the lawful faiths, and might even cooperate with some of the LG, NG, LN and N ones on occasion to fight a common CE enemy.
 We are ruthless and our laws are harsh, but we strive to create a generally prosperous and stable society with enough inherent unity that it will not collapse even if our military power is diminished in a conflict. Taxation is hard on the common folk, but not heavy enough to drive them past the breaking-point. Craft and industry are encouraged, and taxed less severely, but most of it is in the hands of the Cartel. Corruption is regulated, a privilige given only to the most powerful and only when it is expedient. We provide a fundamental degree of social security, to keep people from starving to death (and to keep them productive), but only to those who have earned it.  

Rebellion and crime will not be tolerated. Laziness is a vice and, if taken too far, a crime. The wilderness will be cleansed of monsters and brigands. The people will have stability, a fair (but merciless) judicial system, a conditional guarantee against starvation and security. In exchange they will obey the laws, pay their taxes, be ready for conscription (the nobility and merchant-elite are exempt from Conscription, so are clerics of allied faiths) and say their prayers. (The worship of Bane is not compulsory, but highly encouraged)

 Loyalty and mutual self-interest shall be the foundation of our great society. We do not create a house of cards built only on the fear of our 
people.


--
Which groups or churches might be sympathetic and cooperative with our government as portayed in the post? Which would be violently hostile? I don't know a lot about the Realms.


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## Dalamar (May 29, 2004)

Velina and Velasha (was that their name? I'm trying to memorize them) Have too small HD marked on their character sheets, since undeadness does not increase die size by one, it changes it to d12. Did you count their hit points with the d8s, Isida?


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## Uriel (May 30, 2004)

*Fun poke at Serpenteye*

Are we playing D&D or Diplomacy...?






			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> It works very well, better than I had dared to hope actually .
> 
> The best way to unite two groups is almost always to give them a common enemy. The Empire of Sembia's greatest enemies are probably The Harpers (who are weakened too much to be a threat and have a lot of other concerns everywhere), The government of Cormyr (covertly, with officially decent relations. Their monarch is young and weak) and Shadowdale with Elminster (he may be powerful and well-connected enough to know about my operations in his sphere of influence but he's old and insane and may well ignore the issue until it becomes more pressing).
> I will have tried to establish good relations with the City of Shade and the Red Wizards of Thay, but the thieves-guild organizations will either have been recruited into the secret police (and kept carefully monitored) or been targeted for eradication. The Cult of the Dragon definately falls in the latter category.
> ...


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## Endur (May 30, 2004)

Name your character Fzoul. 
(hint from the peanut gallery)


			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I'll finish it this weekend. I am having some difficulties with writing up a good background for him, though. You have to kill a lot of people to get to 20th level and it's hard to do that without having an impact on the setting (especially if you're that kind of character who has a focused agenda and really wants to make an impact). In other words, my character will have changed the world in some way or another, and I don't know if you will allow any changes to the setting.


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## Endur (May 30, 2004)

Velina and Velasta.  

You'll also need to make up a story as to how they became vampires and were converted by Torellan.  

After being slain by the party and having their bodies shredded, Irae T'sarran brought them back as Revenants and sent them after Torellan, Quertus, and the remainants of House Millithor to finish you off (since Revenants can find you no matter where you hide).

So when they led a large undead force against you, presumably House Millithor somehow defeated them and somehow converted them from revenants into vampires.

(Its part of the module that after they are slain by the PCs, Irae transforms them into revenants and sends them after the PCs again)


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## Xael (May 30, 2004)

I have university entrance exams next tuesday, so my posting might be a bit sloppy, though I'll probably manage the copy & paste operation of Quertus' background and stuff. 

It's more probable that I throw the books to some dark corner and surf the internet though...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 30, 2004)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> Velina and Velasha (was that their name? I'm trying to memorize them) Have too small HD marked on their character sheets, since undeadness does not increase die size by one, it changes it to d12. Did you count their hit points with the d8s, Isida?



  Yes, I counted their hit points with d8s.  And you can increase their class hit dice to d12s.  However their bonus ECL hit dice that I gave them stays at d8s.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 30, 2004)

Endur said:
			
		

> Velina and Velasta.




No these aren't the drow twins that got killed these are Avariel, winged elves from the races of the Faerûn, twins but I would still like to see the story.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 30, 2004)

Yes, these are entirely new vampire cohorts I created for Dalamar, and he's "strongly encouraged" to come up with some additional history for them.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 30, 2004)

On a side note it is scary just how close there name sets for the two sets of twins are...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 30, 2004)

And the fact that I didn't even realize there were a set of vampiric twins before...


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## Serpenteye (May 30, 2004)

Uriel said:
			
		

> *Fun poke at Serpenteye*
> Are we playing D&D or Diplomacy...?




There's more to power than killing big bad monsters for someone elses sake, that's the stuff of low-level games. 



			
				Endur said:
			
		

> Name your character Fzoul.
> (hint from the peanut gallery)




I don't really want to play another cleric, plus I couldn't afford Fzoul since he's 20th level and a Chosen. I doubt I could do him justice anyway.


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## Brother Shatterstone (May 30, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> There's more to power than killing big bad monsters for someone elses sake, that's the stuff of low-level games.




I don't even think that low level games should simply only deal with this...   

Then again I've gone 4 to 6 months in a PbP game without being involved in combat so I'm not quite normal...


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## Endur (May 30, 2004)

Whoops.  I didn't mean to let out Isida's secret plan regarding Torellan's impending doom.  

Repeat after me.  There is no relationship between the two sets of twins.



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> And the fact that I didn't even realize there were a set of vampiric twins before...


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## Endur (May 31, 2004)

FYI, the fifth book in the War of the Spider Queen comes out next month.  The title is "Extinction".  The sixth and final book comes out in January (title is "Rebirth").


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## Uriel (May 31, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> There's more to power than killing big bad monsters for someone elses sake, that's the stuff of low-level games.




Not if the big bad monsters are all ECL 20.Besides, my Murderer-for-a-Lower-Power has schemes of his own...

Anyways, my comment was
(a) a jest
and
(b) in regards to a whole lot of supposition on your and the DM's part in relation to how powerful our characters are in the World.
I don't see your 20th Lvl character as being able to take over a significant part of a Country, sorry. This is especially true in the FR setting, where there are a billion High level NPC superstars from the books/20 years of campaign building to stop you.
This is, however, just my opinion. That earlier exchange between you and isada just sounded like a game or two of Diplomacy/Supremacy/insert scheming boardgame game here.
This should be a fun one.

********************************************************


In lighter news, I will be away from my computer until mid Tuesday, so Eol might have to make a slightly delayed entrance into the game (which Isada mentioned a Tuesday start for, I believe).


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## Serpenteye (Jun 1, 2004)

Uriel said:
			
		

> Anyways, my comment was
> (b) in regards to a whole lot of supposition on your and the DM's part in relation to how powerful our characters are in the World.
> I don't see your 20th Lvl character as being able to take over a significant part of a Country, sorry. This is especially true in the FR setting, where there are a billion High level NPC superstars from the books/20 years of campaign building to stop you.
> This is, however, just my opinion. That earlier exchange between you and isada just sounded like a game or two of Diplomacy/Supremacy/insert scheming boardgame game here.
> This should be a fun one.




Levels alone mean little, I agree. If 1st level aristocrats can take over whole nations then why couldn't my 20th level character be able to take over a part of a country? Not by brute personal force alone but by scheming, manipulation and murder.

-

Isida, I won't be able to post very frequently for the next few weeks because of vacation-stuff. I should be able to get to an internet-connection every other day or so, though.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 1, 2004)

Well, this may be FR, but this is Isida's FR.  And in Isida's FR, 20th level ruthless, intelligent spellcasters with ambition, money, and patience can take over countries and make their own empire.  And the last two remaining members of two drow houses can become the dominant power in their section of the Underdark.  I mean, what's the fun of being 20th level if you can't rule at least part of the world?


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## Dalamar (Jun 1, 2004)

Getting back your manhood?


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## Pyrex (Jun 2, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Gentlemen, I would like to try to get this game started.  I will beginning on Tuesday, June 2nd, so characters not completed by that date without prior arrangements will be fed to Lolth.




Isida, are you still planning on starting today or are you delaying for a couple more days?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 2, 2004)

Yup, I am beginning the write-up of the IC thread as we speak.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 2, 2004)

IC thread is up!

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1574323#post1574323


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm kinda freaked out at my own ambition.   Hee hee.  *Goes to find her copy of Requiem for a God.*

So... how was that for an opening?  Was that totally not where you saw your characters?  Bad?  Good?  Ugly?  Too vague?  Too evil?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I'm kinda freaked out at my own ambition.   Hee hee.  *Goes to find her copy of Requiem for a God.*




Naw you'll do fine...  I’m curious of what god it is...  and I will note that Sandorel, one of serpenteye’s characters, is in the wrong game. 



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> So... how was that for an opening?  Was that totally not where you saw your characters?  Bad?  Good?  Ugly?  Too vague?  Too evil?



Honestly, I wasn't sure what to do with Kilcif, a chosen should be the leader of his people, but when your race has issues with congregating in the hundreds the opportunity to unite under one banner is really not an option at all.   

Of course with Kilcif’s pending divine power that indeed could change...


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 2, 2004)

Yep.  _Kilcif's_ impending divine power.  Because that's how it's going to go.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Yep.  _Kilcif's_ impending divine power.  Because that's how it's going to go.





Hey Isida, if you don't mind could you rename this thread so that it has the little OOC name on it?  (I would prefer it if it was at the beginning of the subject but beggars can’t be choosers.)

Oh since it appears that Kilcif travels around a bit if any house or country wants Kilcif to be in their location simply say so...  I went drow in the post as there's the previous connection and the odds favor it.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 2, 2004)

More likely Millithor than Morcane; Tierak's never been given any reason to trust Kilcif.  She'll use him, but let him into the House, especially given the way she treats her slaves? Hardly.


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## Uriel (Jun 2, 2004)

I feel a bit like a Drow right now...

I'm working through a pretty bad sunburn )Mem Day at Lake Berryessa here in Calif, beer and fun etc...).

Isada, you have Eol's classes off (looks like you pasted from my earliest submission).
Fighter2/Swash 3/Rogue 5/Assassin 3/Master Thrower 5
Not that different.
I switched my gear around a bit, edited a few mistakes.

Ditched the Ring of Regeneration, since I had been under the (wrong, and a holdover from 1st Ed, silly me) mind that it would regenerate from dead. Not the case. Spell Turning is a good Sub, however.

I'll get my Cohort up tomorrow, though I'm going to be at a Hospital for much of the day (Mom just had surgery). Ouch, my skin hurts(touches it bart Simpson style...)


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## Pyrex (Jun 5, 2004)

Sorry I haven't had more time to post, we're right in the middle of our busiest time of the year at work which is reducing my ability to post.

I'll be offline tomorrow, but I'll be back and post something a bit more substantive on Sunday.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 5, 2004)

I meant to post this last night but I guess it's not to late... 

2 things.

1] Could this thread be renamed to include the OOC tag?  

2]  I'm still uncertain where Kilcif is at right now, he's very mobile with 3 possible locations, but known of the owners of those locations have seen very interested in having him there.  (What's up with that?  )  Anyhow, I figure that House Millithor would probably be the best bet and unless someone objects to it I think we should go with that...  

2a]  Of course the two highest members are on the shelf right now so there wasn't really a way to push the story forward last night.


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## Xael (Jun 5, 2004)

Been a bit busy because of entrance exams lately (completely screwed up the one I mentioned earlier btw), and there's (last) one on monday.

And damn I hate making those starting posts.


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## Serpenteye (Jun 6, 2004)

This is officially cool. 

I love my new character, he's so civilized. And the premise of the game; Lolth in trouble, is just right for inter-party conflict and intrigue as we'll all try to use eachothers to either save or devour Lolth. It's both a dungeon crawl and a political game where everything is at stake.


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## Endur (Jun 7, 2004)

FYI: I decided to GM a short adventure.  Tears for Twilight Hollow.  Good characters only.  See the thread if interested.


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## Seonaid (Jun 13, 2004)

Narcelia is done, as far as I can get her anyway. If someone wants to make the House for me, or add anything else, feel free. I've done as much as I can.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 13, 2004)

Seonaid, nicely done, but I’m not seeing the leadership feat that's needed for having a cohort...  (Though I will admit that the forum confuses me at times.)


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 14, 2004)

Hey guys, sorry for the slow pace, but I was at my hometown over the weekend.  I would also like just a smidge more... specifics in people's posts.  You're contacting an agent... great.  What kind of agent is here, where has he been posted, etc.  I need a little bit more for some of your information-gathering sprees to post accurately if some of you would be so kind.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 14, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Hey guys, sorry for the slow pace, but I was at my hometown over the weekend.



Great I hope you had fun.  



			
				Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I would also like just a smidge more... specifics in people's posts.




Excluding mine right, or do you want to know more of Kilcif’s action...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 14, 2004)

Umm... no, that's _quite_ enough of Kilcif's action, thank you very much...


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 14, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Umm... no, that's _quite_ enough of Kilcif's action, thank you very much...



Figured as much.     On a side note I just sent you an email and I'm rather curious to see what you think of it...   (When you have the time that is.  )


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## Seonaid (Jun 22, 2004)

I don't have the Leadership feat because I didn't take it. I'll do that.

Sorry about the vague posting, Isida. I'll fix that in future posts. It's not vital to me right now, unless you want me to go back.

Edit: I dropped Improved Levitation for Leadership. Don't have my books, so I don't know what benefits it gives me, if any, other than the cohort, but I'll look into it.


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## Xael (Jun 22, 2004)

I'm sorry I haven't poster for a while. Frankly, I'm not sure if Quertus has that much he can do to get more information other than summon something. Will see to that soon though (hopefully).


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## Endur (Jun 22, 2004)

*Off topic (sorry)*

Xael -- I started a short game in another thread.  Tears for Twilight Hollow.  This will be a fast, short game (finished by August).  You are in if you want to play.  (I tried sending you a private message on En World, but it seems to be turned off)



			
				Xael said:
			
		

> I'm sorry I haven't poster for a while. Frankly, I'm not sure if Quertus has that much he can do to get more information other than summon something. Will see to that soon though (hopefully).


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## Seonaid (Jun 26, 2004)

Does Narcelia know that Kilcif is Hruggek's Chosen? If so, does she know what that means?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 26, 2004)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Does Narcelia know that Kilcif is Hruggek's Chosen? If so, does she know what that means?



Hmmm good question, she should indeed know what a chosen is, Kilcif isn't likely to broadcast it though, but she saw his head go tumbling from his shoulders so she should have a clue that someone very powerful likes him. 

I would assume that a simple question and answer with commune would have enlighten her of his chosen status long ago. 

Of course whether or not you believe it is up to you.


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## Seonaid (Jun 26, 2004)

Does Kilcif act any differently, or anything?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 26, 2004)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Does Kilcif act any differently, or anything?



Not sure I fallow...   


He's more in the foreground now, he's not avoiding Narcelia or the other drow like he did before....  He's also eats and drinks now, even accepting of what you’re offering, which is something he never did before…

Has becoming the Matron of House Millithor changed Narcelia any?


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## Pyrex (Jun 26, 2004)

Isida, given that Lolth (apparantly) has been struck down, what happens when Carcelon attempts to swap spells?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 26, 2004)

You get your spells without a hitch.  

(Snickers evilly)


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## Seonaid (Jun 26, 2004)

Becoming Matron changes Narcelia only in the ways that are evident in the thread. That's not a real answer, but basically that means no.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 26, 2004)

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Becoming Matron changes Narcelia only in the ways that are evident in the thread. That's not a real answer, but basically that means no.



That's about the same answer as Kilcif and chosen status...   

Now how do I word his retort...  :\


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## Pyrex (Jul 1, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> You get your spells without a hitch.
> 
> (Snickers evilly)




Ok.  I'll update my spells and post and/or shoot you an email tomorrow.

Grr, board nuked my subscription list...


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 1, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Grr, board nuked my subscription list...




Here are this game's subscriptions:

IC OOC RG


If you need anything else found game wise go here: link 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for what Kilcif could suggest in character I don't really have a clue, he knows nothing about planner travel.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm planning a little excursion to the Pits when my character wakes up, a little solo-raid while the other characters are rp-ing, mostly to gather some first-hand experience about the environs. (Buff, place 4 Maximized Cones of Cold in Spell Trigger, Shapeshange, Gate, look around, kill some fiends and Dominate some fools, Gate home, sleep.)


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 2, 2004)

Serpenteye, e-mail me please.  barrow at iastate dot edu.

Everyone else, I have a request to make of you.  I'm a little bit at a loss with this game.  While everyone has interesting characters, they are all very independent, and getting everyone together is going very slowly, if it will happen at all.  I was hoping to do a bit of a transition post just to get everyone together and ready to go to the Demonweb Pits, because otherwise this could take months.

How do people feel about this?  Do you just want to continue on in an independent direction, or do you want to plunge right into the pits?  Because honestly, I already have one game that has all of the characters going off in different directions (Of Vile Darkness) and it's a challenging game to run.  I don't think I have the will to run what is essentially four of five solo games in the samethread.

If you guys want to continue in the independent vein, then I would ask that you find a different DM to run this game.  Right now this is kind of my albatross game.  It's the game that I don't know what to do in it.  This game has a four-chapter history and a lot of character baggage that I simply don't have time to check into, which means it's very hard to run.

So...  I essentially need your cooperation to get this game going.  What I'd like to do (if you want to go this way) is that everyone will find out that they basically need a party of very strong people, both magically and physically to survive the Pits.  And as much as they might distrust each other, they do make the kind of team that is necessary to get to Lolth and kill her.  

So... what do you say?  A little friendly railroading?  Or a DM with more time on her hands?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jul 2, 2004)

I am more than willing to accept a little railroading in order to keep you on.


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## Pyrex (Jul 2, 2004)

*nod* Same here.
(Especially as I'm not sure I have the time to out-plot everyone else...  )


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 2, 2004)

Isida, you already know my answer to this but I’m more willing to accept any changes you need to make.   (YHMS)


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## Dalamar (Jul 2, 2004)

Go ahead, if J.R.R. Tolkien can railroad his characters to the Mines of Moria (), you can railroad us to the Demonweb pits.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Perhaps they can all be railroaded into a chance-encounter with my character in the Pits?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 2, 2004)

That might no be a bad idea.  Because you're going to need them.  Heh, heh, heh...


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> That might no be a bad idea.  Because you're going to need them.  Heh, heh, heh...




I have thought up some pretty fiendish tactics... But some extra fodder is always useful .


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 2, 2004)

Hey Serpenteye, have you e-mailed me yet?  I may have deleted it.  Make sure the subject is something very obvious like "ENWorld Game" or something like that.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Hey Serpenteye, have you e-mailed me yet?  I may have deleted it.  Make sure the subject is something very obvious like "ENWorld Game" or something like that.




Hours ago. Did you give me the right adress? What was it you needed me to tell you that I couldn't let the rest of the players know?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 2, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> What was it you needed me to tell you that I couldn't let the rest of the players know?



Yeah that's a good question... 

SE, you might want to post what the subject of the email was.  (is your addy up to date in the ENworld database?  Sorry I don't have you address on my webmail.)

Isisda, you might want to check your deleted items...  (I'll email you his display name.)


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## Pyrex (Jul 2, 2004)

So, assuming we all end up in the pits, how do we rationalize the end-game?

I find it hard to believe that any of the PC's would stand by and allow another to assume godhood.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 2, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> I find it hard to believe that any of the PC's would stand by and allow another to assume godhood.



There is a difference between traveling with some for connivance and letting someone attain godhood...

So I figure once we are all there it’s more like a game of stabbing everyone in the back...

Isida, I sent you that email, if it proves unhelpful I can get serpenteye's email from the admin side since he did try to contact you but I can't promise you it's up to date.


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## Pyrex (Jul 2, 2004)

Right, but regardless of plots (and I imagine there will be plenty), there has to be a stated objective.

The stated objective could be "fight together til we get there then fight over the prize" as easily as anything else, but the _reason_ we're working together needs to be stated as part of the railroad post.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 2, 2004)

The reason you're working together - If you don't have some additional support in form of very powerful individuals, you're going to get eaten alive in the Pits.  Going there alone would be bad.  You also need clever people who can deal with the threats presented, as having only exceptionally strong fodder wouldn't be much better than going there alone.


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## Seonaid (Jul 2, 2004)

I'm okay with whatever.


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## Xael (Jul 2, 2004)

I'm okay with little railroading. Most of my information gathering plans would have been plane-traveling trips (which I were rather reluctant to do anyway), so...


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## Pyrex (Jul 12, 2004)

So, about that railroad...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 17, 2004)

Ok guys, I've finally come to a decision.  I'm going to have to drop this game.  I have so many games of my own that I want to run well, and this gave has me stymied at every turn.  The level is a little too high for me to handle, particularly with everyone being so fiercely independent and evil.  The baggage from this game is really too much for me to work with, so I'm bowing out.  You guys can get a new DM if you like, and more power to you, but this game just isn't working for me.  I hope you understand.


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## Seonaid (Jul 17, 2004)

I'm sorry it didn't go well for you, but I can understand. I wouldn't want to run this one either!  I hope everything works out for you, and that we can game together again sometime soon!


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 17, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> I hope you understand.




Of course!    Thanks for giving it a try for us Isida. *hugs*


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## Xael (Jul 17, 2004)

I can certainly understand your decicion, the game's probably a nightmare to try to run. It's epic, the characters are evil, and there's quite many of them, etc.

Thanks for the time you DM'd.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 17, 2004)

I understand. I certainly haven't made it any easier for you. Thanks, Isida, it was good while it lasted.


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## Dalamar (Jul 18, 2004)

Thanks a bunch, and I certainly understand.


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## Pyrex (Jul 20, 2004)

Yep, thanks for giving it a shot.


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