# New Footwear



## bone_naga (Nov 7, 2013)

Just got my new boots in, the Merrell Proterra. I went for the low style (they have a mid-boot style, but in addition to costing more I just don't find that style to be as comfortable) with the gore-tex lining.

Merrell markets the Proterra as a minimalist boot, something that is rather painfully hard to find. Unfortunately, it really isn't. It's more like a really good hiking shoe than a minimalist anything.

It has a 4mm heel to toe drop. I really prefer 0mm but 4mm isn't too bad. It's noticeable but I don't think it will cause a lot of pain like some of my other boots have. The sole is flexible compared to most hiking boots, but again that just puts it at about the realm of a normal running shoe rather than a true minimalist shoe. I doubt I will get much ground feel through this.

Still, it's better than most of the options out there. I wanted something that still had some sole on it to provide some cushion when I'm carrying a lot of weight.

The mesh upper is pretty breathable, much more so than my other gore-tex boots. I wonder how warm they'll be in cooler weather, though. I'm also interested to see how they hold up in wet weather since the gore-tex is only an inner lining, which means the outside could still get thoroughly soaked.

I think some of the heel height is coming from the insole, so today I am experimenting by removing it and see if it provides any improvement for me.

I was also hoping it would come in a wide size, but it does not so I had to just order 1/2 size up. With most minimalist shoes, my fat feet aren't really a problem since they tend to be roomier and stretch a bit to accommodate my feet. Again, these are not true minimalist boots. However, the 1/2 size up seems to be working pretty well.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Nov 7, 2013)

After years of wearing Hi-Tech, Timberland, and Columbias, I discovered Merrells about 3 years ago.  They've become my favorite brand of walking/hiking shoe.  I have one pair- sadly discontinued- that fit me so well, they feel more like extremely heavy socks instead of shoes.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 8, 2013)

BN, are you using the Merrel Protera for work or is it just for you going out hiking on your own? If it's for your job, you already know it's going to be impossible to find something with a minimalist sole that fits the requirements your employer wants. 

The Protera's look like they made the upper more minimalist. I guess they did that to try and cut down on the weight and give the boot a bit more flexibility. Still, the sole looks pretty thick. I imagine it's hard to get a minimalist sole that offers the type of protection that you may need when you are running through the wilderness, being less than cautious, and step hard on a tree root or hidden rock. Even VFFs have a hard time doing that. The Trek sole is a bit thicker and stuffer than their other soles. It's supposed to protect you in those cases where you step on something hard. I'm not a fan of the Trek sole. Not enough ground feel. Also, I like wiggling my toes which is something you can't do in the Trek sole.

Unfortunately, less ground feel and flexibility is something you are going to have to trade off for in shoes designed for much harsher environments.

Maybe you and I should get together and design a boot that meets the standards of your employer but is actually a minimalist boot. I think we could make bank.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 8, 2013)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> After years of wearing Hi-Tech, Timberland, and Columbias, I discovered Merrells about 3 years ago.  They've become my favorite brand of walking/hiking shoe.  I have one pair- sadly discontinued- that fit me so well, they feel more like extremely heavy socks instead of shoes.



Merrel has a really good minimalist line. The do make good quality products.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 8, 2013)

I have been also seriously looking into Merrels for hiking and trail running.  

I am quite stocked up on running shoes, and I quite enjoy buying shoes.

Next running shoe maybe the Nike Free Knit if they put it on the shallower 3.0 sole.

Got a race Saturday...stoked!!!


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> BN, are you using the Merrel Protera for work or is it just for you going out hiking on your own? If it's for your job, you already know it's going to be impossible to find something with a minimalist sole that fits the requirements your employer wants.



It's for work but for times when either I'm in civies or at least an environment when uniformity is a relative thing. I've tried finding a good minimalist boot that meets all the normal requirements and it is damn near impossible.

Plus, what I wanted here wasn't something truly minimalist like my VFFs. As much as I love them, it's much harder to rely on your body to absorb the impact when you're carrying anywhere from 50-100lbs extra weight and may be walking for a long time. In my experience, even when I'm not carrying anything, my form will eventually start to deteriorate over long distances.

So yeah it's not truly minimalist but it's minimalist-ish I guess. It's still a lot better than most of the work boots I own. The only ones I have that are this comfortable are the Nike SFBs but my heel slides a little in those so I don't feel comfortable using them for long distance marches.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Maybe you and I should get together and design a boot that meets the standards of your employer but is actually a minimalist boot. I think we could make bank.



I like where you're going with this. Get on it man!


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Grehnhewe said:


> Got a race Saturday...stoked!!!



What kind of race?


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 8, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> What kind of race?



Half marathon, not ready for a full yet.  It is associated with Veterans Day, and it is going to include flyovers of vintage military planes.  I know the guy flying the lead fighter plane, a retired Scottish USAF Colonel.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Grehnhewe said:


> Half marathon, not ready for a full yet.  It is associated with Veterans Day, and it is going to include flyovers of vintage military planes.  I know the guy flying the lead fighter plane, a retired Scottish USAF Colonel.



Sounds cool. I've done the Army 10-Miler but I haven't done a half marathon yet. Mostly because running for that long bores the hell out of me. Still, part of me wants to do a half and a full marathon just to say that I did.

I think either I'll just end up doing some equivalent-length obstacle races (like some of the longer Spartan Races) or at least find one that would be pretty interesting. In Colorado, they have a half marathon that goes up Pike's Peak and the next day is a full marathon where they run up and run back down. That's something I might be able to do. I would have jumped on it last time I was there, but I was there for work and I had to leave the day before the half marathon.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 8, 2013)

Half marathons are my thing, but I do want to do some fulls just to say I did.  Going to do one in April that is mostly downhill and not too severe.  I honestly love half marathons to death, I don't find them boring with the great vistas and girls in Lululemon running gear.  

I have have looked at some links of Spartan and Tough Mudder races.  The ones I looked at were 10 milers with the obstacles and such and perhaps teams.  I wanna do one.  Last one I checked out had an electro shock section?


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 8, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> Sounds cool. I've done the Army 10-Miler but I haven't done a half marathon yet. Mostly because running for that long bores the hell out of me. Still, part of me wants to do a half and a full marathon just to say that I did.
> 
> I think either I'll just end up doing some equivalent-length obstacle races (like some of the longer Spartan Races) or at least find one that would be pretty interesting. In Colorado, they have a half marathon that goes up Pike's Peak and the next day is a full marathon where they run up and run back down. That's something I might be able to do. I would have jumped on it last time I was there, but I was there for work and I had to leave the day before the half marathon.



Didn't you say the first time you put on your Skeletoes you ran 17 miles? That's more than a half-marathon, and it's getting close to a full. I'm actually surprised you haven't run that distance as part of your on the job training or work.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 8, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> I like where you're going with this. Get on it man!



I'm telling you, we'd make a killing.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Grehnhewe said:


> I don't find them boring with the great vistas and girls in Lululemon running gear.



I've found that this is a common feature of many races, one of my favorite features in fact.



Grehnhewe said:


> I have have looked at some links of Spartan and Tough Mudder races.  The ones I looked at were 10 milers with the obstacles and such and perhaps teams.  I wanna do one.  Last one I checked out had an electro shock section?



There are a lot of mud/obstacle races out there and most of them are only 5k runs. The Spartan Race has different lengths ranging from 5k to a full marathon to their Death Race where they don't tell you the length, just that it might last for 24-48 hours. Some races have electroshocks, but not most of them. Tough Mudder does, Run For Your Lives (now called Zombie Race) has a couple, and the MudmanX Beach Run had one, but it wasn't working.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Didn't you say the first time you put on your Skeletoes you ran 17 miles? That's more than a half-marathon, and it's getting close to a full. I'm actually surprised you haven't run that distance as part of your on the job training or work.



18 miles, but I didn't do it as an official event or anything. And we've repeatedly established just what a terrible idea that was. And I have done it for work (which was why I chose that distance for the Skeletoes). But doing stuff for work sucks all the fun out of it. I love shooting, camping, hiking, and I had always wanted to jump out of an airplane, yet all of these things are ruined for me when done on the job.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I'm telling you, we'd make a killing.



I don't doubt it. There really aren't any companies catering to that niche right now.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 8, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> 18 miles, but I didn't do it as an official event or anything. And we've repeatedly established just what a terrible idea that was. And I have done it for work (which was why I chose that distance for the Skeletoes). But doing stuff for work sucks all the fun out of it. I love shooting, camping, hiking, and I had always wanted to jump out of an airplane, yet all of these things are ruined for me when done on the job.



I noticed you didn't mention blowing stuff up.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 8, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> I don't doubt it. There really aren't any companies catering to that niche right now.



Yeah, I know. Now if we only knew the first thing about shoe production and design. Vibram tends to design and produce soles for various companies. I don't see why they wouldn't do it for a boot. The only thing is how to design a real minimalist sole that still provides the protection need for hiking? I may just have to look into this.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Hmmm....anyone else having problems with the reply button? It's no longer quoting people.

Anywho, yeah I didn't mention that part because blowing stuff up is still fun, even with the occasional stupidity attached to it.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

Yeah, Vibram makes soles for Merrell. They make soles for resoling boots. I'm sure we could come up with something. Maybe they don't have anything against reselling their soles so long as we are buying from them or maybe we would need a specific agreement with them, but I'm sure the latter would be possible to do.

I'm thinking we would want a soft boot, but one that could hold the foot firmly in place so it doesn't slide and create blisters. A large toe box would be necessary. We'd need to meet some of the basic requirements (tan, it's either 6 or 8 inches minimum height, no zippers), I'm thinking we'd want some thickness in the sole and some bit of cushion, but it could be real soft, something like the Nike SFB that has very soft and flexible material, then use harder rubber for the actual tread, we could even make it chopped up like the Nike Free sole for some better ground feel, and it would have a 0mm heel to toe drop.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 8, 2013)

We could also do service-specific modifications. The Marines like to have their little logo with the parakeet near the heels, so we could do that on request. The Chair Force likes these hideous tan boots that are dyed blue (but they usually come out looking sickly green instead) so we could do that too.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 9, 2013)

Killed my race today, the weather was beautiful and so were the runner girls.  Ran part of the race alongside a serviceman in his issued boots.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 9, 2013)

Nice. Unfortunately it's been raining out here the last couple of days. i haven't been able to run sprints much. Bike riding has also been limited. I don't want to take off and then get caught out in the rain, especially with how card drivers treat bike riders out here. It's bad enough on a clear day.

Gren, you need to get some kind of camera you can carry with you and either take short videos or pics of the runs you go on, and the girls that do them. Do it!!!


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 9, 2013)

Mad_Jack said:


> Yeah, if the boot thing doesn't work out you could always go into internet pr0n, lol...



Funny enough, I did. Unfortunately, due to some people insisting on doing certain things, it didn't turn out well, and the whole thing got scrapped.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 9, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Nice. Unfortunately it's been raining out here the last couple of days. i haven't been able to run sprints much. Bike riding has also been limited. I don't want to take off and then get caught out in the rain, especially with how card drivers treat bike riders out here. It's bad enough on a clear day.
> 
> Gren, you need to get some kind of camera you can carry with you and either take short videos or pics of the runs you go on, and the girls that do them. Do it!!!



Perfect weather.  55 light clouds at start and 68 clear and sunny at the end.

No way you could pull off pics or video.  However, you are always thinking Mr. Squirrel.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 9, 2013)

Grehnhewe said:


> Perfect weather.  55 light clouds at start and 68 clear and sunny at the end.



Perfect weather? Dude, around here that is an arctic winter!


> No way you could pull off pics or video.  However, you are always thinking Mr. Squirrel.



Dude, helmet cams exist for a reason. I'm sure you can modify one to fit in a hat or some other piece of gear.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 9, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Perfect weather? Dude, around here that is an arctic winter!
> Dude, helmet cams exist for a reason. I'm sure you can modify one to fit in a hat or some other piece of gear.



Perfect running weather if you ask me, and I was done at 9 am.  It was actually a little cooler today than it has been.

The technology isn't there yet, but demand brings innovation.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Nov 10, 2013)

Grehnhewe said:


> Perfect running weather if you ask me, and I was done at 9 am.  It was actually a little cooler today than it has been.
> 
> The technology isn't there yet, but demand brings innovation.



Don't be lazy, homie.


----------



## bone_naga (Nov 13, 2013)

Grehnhewe said:


> Killed my race today, the weather was beautiful and so were the runner girls.



The women are one of my favorite parts of racing. Especially those that favor yoga pants.



Grehnhewe said:


> Ran part of the race alongside a serviceman in his issued boots.



Was he a masochist or something?


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 14, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> The women are one of my favorite parts of racing. Especially those that favor yoga pants.
> 
> Was he a masochist or something?



Yoga pants in!  Short shorts for the win!

Lots of people were rooting for the guy in fatigues and boots.  He finished not too long after me, but he did look a little thrashed.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 17, 2013)

So I am keeping pace with one of the hottest girls in the race this morning, when we both pass this short guy overly geared up.  Straight up as that girl passed him, he quickly fumbled for his camera, and took a picture of her ass. . Nobody said anything, but there were some smirks and rolling eyes.  First time I have seen that.


----------



## Zombie_Babies (Nov 18, 2013)

Just think, man - that could have been _you _with that sweet butt pic!


----------



## Grehnhewe (Nov 19, 2013)

Zombie_Babies said:


> Just think, man - that could have been _you _with that sweet butt pic!



it is not as if she was spilling milk as she ran by, that might make me cry.


----------



## Zombie_Babies (Nov 19, 2013)

Grehnhewe said:


> it is not as if she was spilling milk as she ran by, that might make me cry.




And if she were you would have been totally unprepared.  Further proof that it pays to be pervy.


----------



## Kramodlog (Nov 19, 2013)

It is true. I hurt my back and neck at yoga to look at the cuties and I regret nothing. 

Owwww.


----------



## Zombie_Babies (Nov 19, 2013)

Yep.  What's worth doing is worth doing pervy.


----------



## bone_naga (Dec 30, 2013)

Sorry for the thread necro, but as an update I just wanted to say that these boots/hiking shoes were awesome. I wore them pretty much all the time in Afghanistan. They were one of the best investments I ever made, although I did have to remove the insoles in order for them to be comfortable for me.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Dec 30, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> Sorry for the thread necro, but as an update I just wanted to say that these boots/hiking shoes were awesome. I wore them pretty much all the time in Afghanistan. They were one of the best investments I ever made, although I did have to remove the insoles in order for them to be comfortable for me.



Which boots are those?


----------



## bone_naga (Dec 30, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Which boots are those?



Those Merrell Proterras that I bought last month. I got the ones with the gore-tex lining (which was also a good decision). They weren't quite minimalist, but they were much closer to being minimalist than most boots or hiking shoes that I've tried and removing the insoles helped reduce the heel elevation.

The soles are pretty soft and flexible (again as far as boots go, not even close to five-fingers soft). It breathed well. It was generally comfortable even when walking around with some extra weight on my shoulders.


----------



## bone_naga (Dec 30, 2013)

I've also been thinking about trying these out.

http://www.bellevilleboot.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=97

http://birthdayshoes.com/review-belleville-mini-mil-minimalist-boot

I am a bit annoyed that it includes a 5mm drop. Why is it so hard to have the same sole with a 0mm drop?


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Dec 30, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> Those Merrell Proterras that I bought last month. I got the ones with the gore-tex lining (which was also a good decision). They weren't quite minimalist, but they were much closer to being minimalist than most boots or hiking shoes that I've tried and removing the insoles helped reduce the heel elevation.
> 
> The soles are pretty soft and flexible (again as far as boots go, not even close to five-fingers soft). It breathed well. It was generally comfortable even when walking around with some extra weight on my shoulders.



Interesting. It seems a lot more companies are trying their hand at making a minimalist boot… or at least minimalist for a boot.


----------



## bone_naga (Dec 31, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Interesting. It seems a lot more companies are trying their hand at making a minimalist boot… or at least minimalist for a boot.



Yes it seems so. And although I consider this a good thing, so far "trying" seems to be the operative word in many cases.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Dec 31, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> Yes it seems so. And although I consider this a good thing, so far "trying" seems to be the operative word in many cases.



I imagine it's difficult to design something that is minimalist, but that can be used in the same terrain as hiking boots and shoes. These are three minimalist boots I saw on the other site I frequent.
Boot one

Boot two

Boot three 

I think boots two and three look like something you might want to look into for work. Three seems to be the most minimalist. I haven't tried them because I rarely have a reason to wear boots. The only boots I currently on are dress boots, which are Kenneth Coles, and they aren't minimalist. I rarely have a reason to wear anything aside from my Vibrams or chucks.


----------



## bone_naga (Dec 31, 2013)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I imagine it's difficult to design something that is minimalist, but that can be used in the same terrain as hiking boots and shoes. These are three minimalist boots I saw on the other site I frequent.
> Boot one
> 
> Boot two
> ...



I've been looking at the mini-mils (boot 2). One of my coworkers has them and is very happy with them, but I don't think he's a minimalist runner.

Boot 1 and Boot 3 doesn't meet uniform requirements. I was especially disappointed that Boot 3 did not have a military-friendly version since all they would have to do is change the leather the boot is made out of to the tan suede that is being used in the current style.

I think a couple companies have gotten the sole down. The Merrel Proterras and the Nike SFBs both have soles that are softer than normal boots but still thick and rugged enough to hold up to rougher terrain while carrying weight, and from what I've heard the Belleville Mini-Mils are in the same boat, but none of them have a 0mm drop, which just kind of annoys me.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Dec 31, 2013)

bone_naga said:


> I've been looking at the mini-mils (boot 2). One of my coworkers has them and is very happy with them, but I don't think he's a minimalist runner.
> 
> Boot 1 and Boot 3 doesn't meet uniform requirements. I was especially disappointed that Boot 3 did not have a military-friendly version since all they would have to do is change the leather the boot is made out of to the tan suede that is being used in the current style.
> 
> I think a couple companies have gotten the sole down. The Merrel Proterras and the Nike SFBs both have soles that are softer than normal boots but still thick and rugged enough to hold up to rougher terrain while carrying weight, and from what I've heard the Belleville Mini-Mils are in the same boat, but none of them have a 0mm drop, which just kind of annoys me.



Yeah, boot three would have been ideal if they have a military friendly version. Oh well, next time you should get a real job, you hippy!
You never know, though, and Boot three may be released in tan suede. I'm sure you're not the only military guy looking for some minimalist boots. THe market is growing. Eventually there will be someone who puts something out that is really good.


----------



## bone_naga (Jan 1, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Yeah, boot three would have been ideal if they have a military friendly version. Oh well, next time you should get a real job, you hippy!
> You never know, though, and Boot three may be released in tan suede. I'm sure you're not the only military guy looking for some minimalist boots. THe market is growing. Eventually there will be someone who puts something out that is really good.



I'm sure you're right, I'm just impatient. Sometimes I have to remind myself that the minimalist market is still a bit niche.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 1, 2014)

bone_naga said:


> I'm sure you're right, I'm just impatient. Sometimes I have to remind myself that the minimalist market is still a bit niche.



Yeah, unfortunately. Eventually the minimalist market will be more mainstream. I've noticed that there are less and less super cushioned shoes with ridiculous garbage design being advertised. Hopefully things keep going the wy they are and more minimalist, or at least approaching minimalist, shoes get released.

I can't wait to see what Vibram and other minimalist companies release this year.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Jan 3, 2014)

I have got a couple good deals on some shoes I like, I think most of the shoe companies release their new models in the spring?   Sometimes if I find some shoes I really like, I like to buy a couple of pairs.  Like, you know?


----------



## bone_naga (Jan 4, 2014)

Grehnhewe said:


> I have got a couple good deals on some shoes I like, I think most of the shoe companies release their new models in the spring?   Sometimes if I find some shoes I really like, I like to buy a couple of pairs.  Like, you know?



Do you go through shoes that quickly that you expect to need a couple pairs of the same shoe?


----------



## Grehnhewe (Jan 5, 2014)

bone_naga said:


> Do you go through shoes that quickly that you expect to need a couple pairs of the same shoe?



Just running shoes.  I like being able to stick with a model I like for a while.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 5, 2014)

Grehnhewe said:


> Just running shoes.  I like being able to stick with a model I like for a while.



How many miles do you put on them before you have to change them?


----------



## Grehnhewe (Jan 5, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> How many miles do you put on them before you have to change them?



400ish


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 5, 2014)

What does do you wear, and do they live up to their mileage rating?


----------



## Grehnhewe (Jan 5, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> What does do you wear, and do they live up to their mileage rating?



Nike free 3 v5...I know, I run and wear Nike. 
  I believe they are rated 3 to 5 hundred.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 5, 2014)

Not bad. How long does it take you to wear them out?


----------



## Grehnhewe (Jan 5, 2014)

About four months.  I have heard people say it is good to rest shoes for a day before running again?  I have been running more consecutive days recently.  I kind of don't want my shoes to know there is another pair in a box that looks just like them.


----------



## bone_naga (Jan 5, 2014)

Grehnhewe said:


> About four months.  I have heard people say it is good to rest shoes for a day before running again?  I have been running more consecutive days recently.  I kind of don't want my shoes to know there is another pair in a box that looks just like them.



I've never heard that before.


----------



## Grehnhewe (Jan 5, 2014)

I think I must have read it in an obscure article and adopted it as fact.  It took a couple searches to even find this.

http://running.about.com/od/shoesapparelandgear/f/twopairsshoes.htm


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 5, 2014)

Grehnhewe said:


> I think I must have read it in an obscure article and adopted it as fact.  It took a couple searches to even find this.
> 
> http://running.about.com/od/shoesapparelandgear/f/twopairsshoes.htm



I can see their point about giving shoes time to dry out, but what I thought was dumb was the part about the extra cushioning preventing injury. That just means that you are relying on the cushioning to compensate for bad running form. Resting your shoes isn't going to help with your running form.


----------

