# Not Asking for Advice



## Reynard (Aug 20, 2020)

Mini rant incoming:

While this true of many places one can talk about D&D and RPGs in general,  ENWorld seems especially bad about it -- not every start of a discussion is a request for advice. Asking you how you do something doesn't necessarily mean I don't know how to do it or prefer my method. Often I just want to talk about an aspect of playing or running D&D. I do not need or want someone to tell me how to do it "right" or "better." People that automatically instruct rather than discuss come off as close minded and superior.

::end rant::


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## Snarf Zagyg (Aug 20, 2020)

Reynard said:


> Mini rant incoming:
> 
> While this true of many places one can talk about D&D and RPGs in general,  ENWorld seems especially bad about it -- not every start of a discussion is a request for advice. Asking you how you do something doesn't necessarily mean I don't know how to do it or prefer my method. Often I just want to talk about an aspect of playing or running D&D. I do not need or want someone to tell me how to do it "right" or "better." People that automatically instruct rather than discuss come off as close minded and superior.
> 
> ::end rant::




If you're going to do a rant, you need to have at least two fully developed paragraphs. You certainly don't want to identify it as a rant- it should be clear from the beginning that you are mad as h-e-doublehockeysticks and you aren't going to take it anymore.

A good rant needs to really draw in the reader and then develop its thesis. Here, let me show you how it's done.

I've been all over the internet, and I've left every place. Do you know why? Because I just want to have a good conversation about D&D, and I don't need a bunch of know-nothing pedants net-splainin' things to me like I'm some rube off the bus that couldn't spell Gygax if you spotted me the y and the x.


Just thought you needed some tips for your next rant so you can make it better.


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## TwoSix (Aug 20, 2020)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> If you're going to do a rant, you need to have at least two fully developed paragraphs. You certainly don't want to identify it as a rant- it should be clear from the beginning that you are mad as h-e-doublehockeysticks and you aren't going to take it anymore.
> 
> A good rant needs to really draw in the reader and then develop its thesis. Here, let me show you how it's done.
> 
> ...



The ball....his groin....it works on so many levels!


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## Umbran (Aug 20, 2020)

Reynard said:


> ENWorld seems especially bad about it -- not every start of a discussion is a request for advice. Asking you how you do something doesn't necessarily mean I don't know how to do it or prefer my method.




Yeah.  I know this as "Geek answer syndrome" or "geek'splaining".


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## aco175 (Aug 20, 2020)

My wife used to accuse me of trying to help when she just wanted to talk/vent.  I heard it has something to do with men being hunters and woman gatherers.  Now, I finally just ask if she is looking for advice or just wants me to listen.


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## Eltab (Aug 20, 2020)

I don't see any 'hooks' in the OP that I can hang any helpful advice on.
I usually try to be full of it ... helpful advice, I mean.


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## GlassJaw (Aug 20, 2020)

aco175 said:


> My wife used to accuse me of trying to help when she just wanted to talk/vent. I heard it has something to do with men being hunters and woman gatherers. Now, I finally just ask if she is looking for advice or just wants me to listen.




You are wise my friend. I wish I learned this a decade ago!!


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## BookTenTiger (Aug 20, 2020)

aco175 said:


> My wife used to accuse me of trying to help when she just wanted to talk/vent.  I heard it has something to do with men being hunters and woman gatherers.  Now, I finally just ask if she is looking for advice or just wants me to listen.




I learned this from the book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk!

When one of my students comes back from recess crying and angry, I let them talk, and then often all I have to do is empathize ("That sounds frustrating!" "You seem really angry about it."). Usually that's enough, they don't actually want advice or a solution.


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## Morrus (Aug 20, 2020)

I have that problem on Facebook. I'll vent about some trivial thing, and get a ton of unwanted advice. I guess it's just human nature - people want to help.


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## Umbran (Aug 21, 2020)

Morrus said:


> I have that problem on Facebook. I'll vent about some trivial thing, and get a ton of unwanted advice. I guess it's just human nature - people want to help.




Some people want to help.  Some people want to be _seen as helping_.  There's a difference.

The basic litmus test, is to tell those people who say they want to help what will actually be helpful.  If they go ahead and do taht other thing, they actually wanted to be helpful.  If not, well, they just wanted to do what they wanted to do, and it being helpful was secondary.


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## Umbran (Aug 21, 2020)

aco175 said:


> I heard it has something to do with men being hunters and woman gatherers.




You heard some bogus sexist nonsense, then.


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## Longspeak (Aug 21, 2020)

Reynard said:


> While this true of many places one can talk about D&D and RPGs in general,  ENWorld seems especially bad about it -- not every start of a discussion is a request for advice. Asking you how you do something doesn't necessarily mean I don't know how to do it or prefer my method. Often I just want to talk about an aspect of playing or running D&D. I do not need or want someone to tell me how to do it "right" or "better." People that automatically instruct rather than discuss come off as close minded and superior.



What I think you should do is... 


Seriously, though, I get this. I have both fallen into the trap of offering unasked for advice and suffered the well-meaning people who offered unasked for advice. I think it's universal and there is no escape. At least online, I can simply not respond and that usually ends the dialog. Less so in the analog world. 

Now, _occasionally,_ unsolicited advice has actually helped me. But I find most of the time it's something I already know / have tried.


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## Morrus (Aug 21, 2020)

For me it tends to come in the form of:

Me: Grrrr. I hate doing X.

Then a whole bunch of people recommend stuff, or people to hire, or offer advice, when all I really wanted was for them to acknowledge I was having a crappy* afternoon.

If I'd wanted advice I'd have said:

Me: Anybody know about software which does X? or Anybody know of anybody looking for a gig doing Y?


*a very, very minor sense of the word 'crappy', like moldy annoying


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## MNblockhead (Aug 21, 2020)

I'm guilty of this. When someone comes to me ranting, whining, or complaining, I tend to try help them solve their issue. If that annoys them, I get annoyed. Why are you wasting my time--and yours--bitching about something you don't want to do anything about. I've gotten better about this, but I still have low tolerance for whiners and tend to distance myself from them.

But the OP seems to not be talking about needing to just vent, but wanting to discuss something without being tutored. That's tougher. I can see that it would be annoying IRL if I was talking about something I had a good deal of knowledge about and someone insisted on instructing me on basic points. IRL it is less of an issue because you tend to know people better or can quickly shut it down with an "I understand that, what I'm talking about is..."  The asynchronous nature of forums makes this difficult. Not everyone is reading the entire thread before responding. Also, it is much more likely that those responding don't know you well, or at all.

I think most people (anecdotal, I have no idea if there is even research on this) tend to err on the side of assuming you don't have the background in an area. They assume a lower level of skill knowledge until proven otherwise.  I don't think this is usually done with ill intent.


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## Umbran (Aug 21, 2020)

MNblockhead said:


> I'm guilty of this. When someone comes to me ranting, whining, or complaining, I tend to try help them solve their issue. If that annoys them, I get annoyed. Why are you wasting my time--and yours--bitching about something you don't want to do anything about. I've gotten better about this, but I still have low tolerance for whiners and tend to distance myself from them.




Human beings do better when they express their emotions.

Someone reaches out to their ocmmunity to get a little acknowledgement and emotional support.  Maybe writing them off as a "whiner" really isn't a great thing to do to them, hm?



> I think most people (anecdotal, I have no idea if there is even research on this) tend to err on the side of assuming you don't have the background in an area. They assume a lower level of skill knowledge until proven otherwise.  I don't think this is usually done with ill intent.




With respect, many _don't consider_ your level of knowledge or background.  They aren't being that thoughtful about it.


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