# Goliath Warden Build Help



## Thatwackyned

Hello, long time reader, first time poster on 4th ed forum.

The question i have is with my Warden build.

Goliath Warden level 1

17 (19)str, 16 (18)con, 10 dex, 10 wil, 10 int, 8 chr

My Daily is Willow Sentinal.  The encounter ones I just took straight from the build example.

And my Feat is Imp Init as i want to be in place before the baddies attack.

The concept is to be that Mighty Roadblock to get to my squishy allies.

I understand that the Fighter is a better sticky defender, but I wanted to try the Warden.

Where should I go from level 1 to be the best Goliath Warden Defender?

Thanks.


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## RefinedBean

Caveat:  I'm not really good at this.

You want to make sure that enemies can't get past you/away from you to attack your friends.  The Warden's really good at that anyway, thankfully.

Random suggestions:

There's a feat that slows enemies on a successful OA.  That way, they probably won't be able to get away from you that often.

As a Goliath, remember that you have an awesome chance of jumping crazy far.  Sometimes it's best to take a few OAs and jump into a circle of enemies (over some heads even!) to get them all marked, and bring the pain on as many as possible.

On that note, maybe Defensive Mobility would be a good idea...if you're going to provoke OAs to get into good position, you want your AC as crazy high as possible.

As for powers, the ones the build suggest are good...stick with close bursts if you can, it'll help keep enemies attentions on you.

Also, have a good heavy thrown weapon on hand just in case someone DOES get away from you, you're immobilized, etc. etc.

Oh, and Primal Power will probably be quite useful for some racial feats for the Goliath.

Happy gaming!


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## mneme

Thatwackyned said:


> Where should I go from level 1 to be the best Goliath Warden Defender?




Hmm.  It depends on what you want to do.

Are you thinking "tank" (eg, indomintable wall), or "reach/controlling warden"?  A Goliath can excel at either, but they are quite different.

I'll recommend, for starters http://community.wizards.com/charop/wiki/Wardenhttp://community.wizards.com/charop/wiki/Warden, which has a lot of useful analysis.

Scraping slighty:

feats:
Sudden Roots: is fantastic.  Suddenly, your oppys have serious teeth.
Mark of Warding: What do you give someone who throws marks like they're popcorn?  This.
Weapon Expertise: Wardens like hitting things (effects on a hit do that).
Greatweapon prowess: the proficiency is pointless, but +2 to damage isn't bad (obviously, better if you're using a reach weapon).

I'd probably go for Nature's Abundance over Eyes of the Hawk -- a +10 to perception is neat, but your most important perception rolls are when you're not aware you need the bonus, and you're not going to have a high perception to begin with.

beyond that...well, it really depends on where you want to take your build.


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## Thatwackyned

I was going to make a Build that turned him into a "Wall"


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## chitzk0i

Armor of durability+collar of recovery+ Stormwarden PP = mega healing surge!


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## DracoSuave

That 17 strength could have been put to better use.

16 strength (+2 obv) then would free up enough points to put your Wisdom at 13.  This is good because you want to Polearm Gamble with a Halbard (it's an axe too, goes well with your high con).  Multiclass into Fighter, nothing too exciting here, you can put this off until paragon if you don't have feat room.

You'll want to be Stoneblessed at level 11, then go Eternal Defender at level 21.  You will have a reach of 4, with utter control over a huge portion of the battlefield.  What you can't mark, you'll simply knocketh down, control, pull, whatever you want.  You will be a -beast- at marking.

Also, at some point, -every- Defender wants Weapon Proficiency: Tratnyr and a Grasping Tratnyr.  Encounter power that pulls someone adjacent with a huge range?  Yes.  Yes please.  You'll not need this at heroic, but eventually you are -going- to want this.


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## Thatwackyned

I need to be a sticky as possable.  My companions are a Sorc/rogue, Warlock and Wizard.  I need to be that "Wall".

ok.

Drop Str to 16 (18 with the +2 Goliath) and this frees up the 3 points to boost Wis to 13 for that Polearm Gamble with a Halbard.

Question: With that Halbard, I need 2 hands.  Doesn't a lack of shield diminish my survivability?


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## DracoSuave

Thatwackyned said:


> I need to be a sticky as possable.  My companions are a Sorc/rogue, Warlock and Wizard.  I need to be that "Wall".
> 
> ok.
> 
> Drop Str to 16 (18 with the +2 Goliath) and this frees up the 3 points to boost Wis to 13 for that Polearm Gamble with a Halbard.
> 
> Question: With that Halbard, I need 2 hands.  Doesn't a lack of shield diminish my survivability?




Don't think of the -2 AC as killing your survivability.  Think of it as an incentive for the enemy to -obey your mark.-  You've got the most HPs in the game.  Period.  You're plenty survivable. 

Think of it this way.  Your reach will mean that you can start punishing enemies with your weapon at a larger and larger coverage of the field.


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## Destil

You may want to consider toughness and some of the paragon/epic tier defense boosters at some point, if you're worried....


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## Thatwackyned

Getting this down.

My at will powers are: Warden's Fury, Warden's Grasp, Earth Shield Strike, Strength of Stone.

Encounter: Stone's Endurance, Thunder Ram Assult

Daily: Form of the Willow Sentinel - The reason is I want to be rooted to the ground. But with 3 squishies behind me, would the Form of the Winter Herold be better?


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## Kwalish Kid

Form of the Winter's Herald is awesome. It really limits the ability of opponents to get to the other PCs, especially if the warden gets out in front of the other PCs.

For your 3rd level, I recommend Earthgrasp Strike (assuming you're playing an Earthstrength warden). So far, no opponent my warden has hit with the power has ever lived long enough to get up from the power. It works quite well if you have a rogue in the party.


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## Thatwackyned

I don't underatand why Polearm Gamble is effective.

Polearm Gamble​ 
*Prerequisites: *
Str 15, Wis 15​ 
*Benefit: * 
When a nonadjacent enemy enters a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack with a polearm against that enemy, but you grant combat advantage to that enemy until the end of the enemy’s turn.​

Why would a Warden want this feat?​​​


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## Kishin

Thatwackyned said:


> I don't underatand why Polearm Gamble is effective.




Sudden Roots.


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## Sanzuo

Build Earthstrength Goliath Warden
Get Craghammer Proficiency
Get Form of Winter's Herald
Win Game

Volk Holmgangson: Slayer of Everything

[sblock]
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Volk Holmganggson, level 9
Goliath, Warden
Guardian Might: Earthstrength

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 17, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.


AC: 24 Fort: 22 Reflex: 20 Will: 20
HP: 95 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 24

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +13, Perception +11, Endurance +9, Athletics +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +4, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, History +4, Insight +6, Intimidate +3, Religion +4, Stealth +3, Streetwise +3, Thievery +3

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Craghammer)
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Hammer)
Level 4: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 6: Revitalizing Font of Life
Level 8: Toughness

POWERS
Warden at-will 1: Strength of Stone
Warden at-will 1: Thorn Strike
Warden encounter 1: Hungry Earth
Warden daily 1: Form of Winter's Herald
Warden utility 2: Bounding Leap
Warden encounter 3: Burst of Earth's Fury
Warden daily 5: Winter's Grip
Warden utility 6: Bear's Endurance
Warden encounter 7: Earth Gift
Warden daily 9: Form of the Stone Sentinel

ITEMS
Hammer Shield Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Cloak of the Walking Wounded +2, Veteran's Hide Armor +2, Dynamic Craghammer +2, Belt of Vigor (heroic tier), Potion of Healing (heroic tier) (2), Adventurer's Kit, Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Demonskin Tattoo (heroic tier), Guardian's Call Craghammer +3

[/sblock]


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## Kwalish Kid

Kishin said:


> Sudden Roots.



That's not an answer.  Indeed, it doesn't even seem to make much sense.


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## Holy Bovine

Kwalish Kid said:


> Form of the Winter's Herald is awesome. It really limits the ability of opponents to get to the other PCs, especially if the warden gets out in front of the other PCs.
> 
> For your 3rd level, I recommend Earthgrasp Strike (assuming you're playing an Earthstrength warden). So far, no opponent my warden has hit with the power has ever lived long enough to get up from the power. It works quite well if you have a rogue in the party.




Damn you!  My creatures will survive to stand again yet! *fistshake*


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## Legildur

Kwalish Kid said:


> That's not an answer.  Indeed, it doesn't even seem to make much sense.



It's a feat, and discussed in some of the above links.


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## Belphanior

Kwalish Kid said:


> That's not an answer.  Indeed, it doesn't even seem to make much sense.




If a creature gets slowed in the middle of his movement and already walked more than 2 squares, he immediately stops.

So somebody rushes you.
Then you make an OA, which interrupts the trigger and thus takes place _before_ he reaches you.
If you hit on the OA, he is then slowed. Which probably means he is now also stuck and can't attack you.

In this manner you can become impervious to conventional melee attacks.


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## Thatwackyned

But he needs to be right beside you.  So if he ends his movement right beside you, he can still attack.


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## Belphanior

No, that is wrong. He doesn't need to be adjacent to you. Quite the opposite in fact: You make the OA when a non-adjacent enemy tries to move adjacent to you. But OAs are interrupts and will take place _before_ the action that triggered it. So he becomes slowed _before_ he reaches you.


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## Thatwackyned

Ah the Key word is "Tries".  So if you keep pushing them 3 squares away from you, they can never get right beside you?


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## Belphanior

Pretty much. Of course this does require you to never miss on the OA.


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## Thatwackyned

*How is this done?*

*Thunder Ram Assault (PHB 2) *

Ok, I wasn't sold on this power, but now I am. With a Controlling weapon you can swap a push/pull for a slide. This means you can bring one guy to you and push the others away, thus isolating the enemy from his allies, while simultaneously surrounding the poor bastard with your allies.


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## Sanzuo

Thatwackyned said:


> *How is this done?*
> 
> *Thunder Ram Assault (PHB 2) *
> 
> Ok, I wasn't sold on this power, but now I am. With a Controlling weapon you can swap a push/pull for a slide. This means you can bring one guy to you and push the others away, thus isolating the enemy from his allies, while simultaneously surrounding the poor bastard with your allies.





As a warden I don't really like any push effects at all, since you basically want enemies on all sides of you giving them as much incentive to attack you as possible.  You are literally a meat shield with your hit points and bonus saving throw at the beginning of the turn, so one of your best abilities (if not the best) is getting hit and liking it.


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## Kwalish Kid

I have found that much of the bread-and-butter of getting rid of opponents in 4E relies on push effects (less on pull and slides are always better, but harder to get). A good DM puts in lots of terrain features to make use of, so pushes help.

Additionally, my warder has used pushes to drive opponents away from the wizard and cleric, who tend to be at the rear of the party. My warden is usually 6 to 10 suqares in front of the wizard, so driving the enemies further away ensures that the wizard won't see a melee attack for a while. Also, with push I can knock opponents back into the wizard's cloud and other zone effects.


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## Thatwackyned

But how do you change the push into a slide?  Then I can move them anywhere.


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## Thatwackyned

Is Gail Strike a better encounter power than Thundering Ram Assult?  I'm an Earth strength Warden.


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## Sanzuo

Thatwackyned said:


> Is Gail Strike a better encounter power than Thundering Ram Assult?  I'm an Earth strength Warden.




I think Gale Strike is absolutely a better power.  Since your Nature's Wrath mark lasts until the end of your next turn you can potentially have two groups of enemies marked before you use this power, dealing decent damage to a group of enemies and even auto-killing minions when the power hits.  Since you're Earthstrength you have a good constitution.

Personally, I retrained to Roots of Stone.  It's a burst, which I like, and it gives good incentive for the enemies to stay next to you.


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## Thatwackyned

Can you post the gail strick power please?  The link is blocked for me.


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## Sanzuo

Huh, if you're a D&Di subscriber you should be able to see it.

Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and each enemy marked by you, other than the target, takes damage equal to your Constitution modifier.
  Stormheart: You also slide each enemy marked by you 1 square.
First published in Primal Power.


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## UngeheuerLich

I believe 14 con, 14 wis and 13 dex instead of 17 strength is a good idea if you want to go for polearm gamble.

You have to get to 15 wis anyway at paragon level, so this is where you could start. raise your dex to 15 and you qualify for HBO which could also be quite nice.

What you should not do however is using 17/16 build with a race that increases those two stats... your reflex and will defense will be deadly low. I would be especially worried about the hole in the will defense...


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## RedBeardJim

UngeheuerLich said:


> What you should not do however is using 17/16 build with a race that increases those two stats... your reflex and will defense will be deadly low. I would be especially worried about the hole in the will defense...




Goliaths do get a +1 racial Will bonus, so that helps somewhat.


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## Thatwackyned

Ok, so we've started playing now.  Warden, Warlock, Wizard, and Sorc.  We're doing a campaign against Kobolds and damn are those suckers tough.  Not to kill, but they get a +1 to hit for every Kobold surrounding the target.  As a level 1 warden, what's my best strat to keep from having my ass handed to me?


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## RedBeardJim

If the kobolds are surrounding and focusing on you, you've got a couple of tools to weather the situation. As Earthstrength, you add your Con mod to your AC when you use Second Wind, *on top of* the +2 you normally get, and that lasts till your next turn. As a Goliath, you get the Resist 5 racial ability once per encounter, and *that* lasts till your next turn. Those will go a long way to keeping you up and fighting while your teammates help whittle down the bad guys, especially since your mark is a free action.


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## Thatwackyned

Ah, so my job is to sit there and take it, while my buddies blast away.  I can do that.


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## RedBeardJim

Well, it's not your _only_ job. I'm just saying that if you're getting into that kind of situation, you've got the tools to get through it better than most. If you stuck with the polearm build you were talking about earlier, you've got reach on your Warden's Fury attack, which helps keep the little buggers focused on you as well.


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## Thatwackyned

I went with Sword and Board, So me AC and Reflex is as high as possable.  I'm not looking to be the damage dealer.  I took mark of warding as my first level feat (called it a tribal tattoo and worked it in to my background).  That makes me their fav target.


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## Herschel

Thatwackyned said:


> Ok, so we've started playing now. Warden, Warlock, Wizard, and Sorc. We're doing a campaign against Kobolds and damn are those suckers tough. Not to kill, but they get a +1 to hit for every Kobold surrounding the target. As a level 1 warden, what's my best strat to keep from having my ass handed to me?




Find someone to play a leader. ;v) Actually, I don't think I am kidding. The advice given so far is very good and as a warden you have more HP and surges than anyone, but those "extra" surges are only as good as the source(s) to trigger them. A Battle Cleric or Warlord would be nice to give you some front line help. Barring that potentially unlikely situation, just follow the advice given already.


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## Destil

You may also want to pick up the warlord (or cleric/bard/artificer) muilticlass feat. It's an extra surge a day whenever you need it most...


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## Sanzuo

Get a Cloak of the Walking Wounded ASAP.  It will go a long way towards survivability.  Its property is activated when you second wind - which is when you should be hulking out anyway.

Some other items I recommend:


Hammer Shield
Guardian's Call Weapon (hammer)

You got Form of Winter's Herald right?


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## Thatwackyned

Yah, Winters Harold was the best option for me.

Could we hire a cleric npc?  What are the rules to that?

The items are great.  I'll keep them in mind.


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## Sanzuo

It's up to your DM if you guys can hire a cleric or not.  There are no real rules for hiring NPCs that I am aware of.  If your DM is a good DM and you guys are having a really hard time healing then he may supply you with an NPC with some limited healing capabilities.  

You can't rely on that though.  If your group is missing a role, in this case a leader (healer), then each member of the group will have to do a small part of that role.  Someone suggested taking a warlord multi-class feat, in fact it might behoove other members of the party to take multi-class feats that come with healing abilities as well - at least early on.  I think you'll find at higher levels your group will harden up and the leader role will be less missed, though still appreciated.


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## Thatwackyned

So we made it to level 2.  I was dropped twice, Kolbalds with their gang up ability and Drakes rending me apart.  I've got the Utility power chosen, but not the Feat.

I'm thinking Toughness for the 5 extra hit points.

Is there any other feats that can make me more durable without the need to spend healing surges, as we have no leader?

Maybe something that increases my Defences?


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## Sanzuo

Toughness is a good feat that any defender should pick up.  Also remember to take advantage of your stone's endurance racial power.  Whenever you've marked a pile of opponents, activate stone's endurance for an extra 5 damage resistance per hit.

My other advice is to save your action points exclusively for your second wind.  You're not a dwarf, unfortunately, so using your standard to second wind can be a little inconvenient.  It's another ability that heals you and raises your defenses, however, and remember your Earthstrength ability gives you a big bonus to your AC when you second wind.  If you get bloodied, go ahead and use that action point to second wind, then get in someone's face.


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## Sanzuo

Another problem could be your party's tactics.  You're a defender, but you can only take so much. (You'll get steadily more invulnerable as you level up don't worry.) Since you're the only melee character you'll be taking all the front line attention, which is a lot.  You've got two strikers, so they should be focusing fire on the most dangerous opponents attacking you while your wizard (controller) deals with groups of weaker opponents and discourages the enemies from attacking the back lines.


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## Thatwackyned

I would have been fine, except one drake crit me and I do believe they have bonus damage if another drake is near by.

I took Imp Init, giving me +4 to init.  Though now I have buyers remorse on not getting the extra 5 hit points.  I'll pick up a creghammer later for the Warden Crushing Earthstrength feat.

Do you think I made the right choice?


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## Sanzuo

Ehhhhh... Improved Initiative is an ok feat in my opinion, but you would be better served by having Toughness.  Wardens have more HP than any other class and you should definitely specialize in your strengths.  Remember that more hit points means a higher surge value as well.

Regarding Crushing Earthstrength, if you were a nova warden that would be one thing, but your job is *not* to do damage.  Abilities that grant you extra damage can be a trap.  Hitting stuff is very important for your abilities to work, however.  So to hit bonuses are a-ok.  Have you gotten Weapon Expertise yet?  Please say yes.

Some other feats to consider are;

Mark of Warding, which improves your defenses slightly and turns your mark from a -2 penalty to a -3 penalty
Sudden Roots, slows enemies that you hit with opportunity attacks.  This makes you slightly more sticky and almost impossible to get away from while in Form of Winter's Herald.


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## Thatwackyned

I do have Mark of Warding (First level Feat) and it makes me the most attractive guy in the party. All the baddies want to be my Friend, surrounding me asking for an autograph.

Joking aside, I've been in 4 battles and the baddies if marked by me attack me, why suffer the -3. So Sudden Roots isn't that good of a choice, I can't see a time I could use it.

From the DM
"I'd like to play without the various expertise feats. They offer to large a bonus to pass up but are otherwise boring. If people end up missing too much I'll simply adjust the monster defenses accordingly."


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## Mistwell

I would not be taking improved init or toughness in your position.  There are plenty of warden-specific feats that will do you better than either of those.

Sudden roots should be a fairly early choice, for example.


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## Thatwackyned

Sudden roots is a great feat, but not for my Board and Sword build.  The baddies, when marked, attack me.  Why leave and get the -3 to attack.


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## sigfile

Thatwackyned said:


> Sudden roots is a great feat, but not for my Board and Sword build.  The baddies, when marked, attack me.  Why leave and get the -3 to attack.




Three good reasons: Warlock, Wizard, and Sorcerer.  Kobold skirmishers are *really* nasty when they flank somebody.  Even with your supermark, two marked kobold skirmishers would be even-up to hit while flanking your wizard and would each do an extra d6 damage.

That being said, I don't think that Sudden Roots is going to be stunningly effective in this game.  Kobolds are more likely to be shifting all over the battlefield rather than drawing opp attacks by running past the defender.  If your DM allows Move + Minor (shifty) to be a double-shift, even Winter's Herald won't help you force opportunity attacks.  If the campaign ever leaves the shifty little buggers behind, you should consider taking the feat.


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## Thatwackyned

Yah, they are Shifty.  He's shifting them all over the place.  But when marked, it's still more of an advantage to target me, than the squishies.  For one thing, I have Wardens Fury if they are in reach and Warden's Grasp if with in 5.  So why take the extra damage.


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## Sanzuo

Mistwell said:


> I would not be taking improved init or toughness in your position.  There are plenty of warden-specific feats that will do you better than either of those.
> 
> Sudden roots should be a fairly early choice, for example.




Why isn't toughness a good choice?  Thatwackyned's warden is doing some hardcore defending in his group and the extra hp goes a long way to keeping him up, even if it's only for another round or two.  There's no reason for him not to take it, especially by paragon.

While I'm at it, defenders usually have a number of powers that allow them to heal themselves.  Since you're without a leader it's a little more important for you to keep yourself healed.  Here's all the ones I could find up to paragon.


Triumphant Vigor - Lvl 2 Daily Utility.  Small amount of healing for a daily and requires you to kill something, but it's something.
Wellspring Strike - Level 5 Daily Attack.  A pretty powerful daily that gives you regeneration until the end of the encounter, you can also give the regeneration to an ally if you want.
Bear's Endurance - Level 6 Daily Utility.  A free heal, meaning it heals you a surge without actually costing a surge which is good.  Also it's an immediate action which means it goes off if your dropped to 0 or lower.  Pretty cool power if you ask me.
Soothing Wind - Level 6 Daily Utility.  Use your second wind as a minor action like a dwarf and gain a little extra hp.
Swift Recovery - Level 6 Encounter Skill Utility.  Allows you to induce a second wind in an ally but not you.
Earth Gift - Level 7 Encounter Attack.  You hit something and regain 10 hit points. Hm.
Form of the Storm Sentinel - Level 9 Daily Attack.  Another free heal and it comes with regeneration.  Also you get an attack with it that allows you to spend a healing surge whether you hit or miss.
Returning Strength - Level 10 Daily Utility.  Healing surge plus a little extra.  Not as good as a free heal.
Spiritual Rejuvenation - Level 10 Daily Utility.  Regain the use of your second wind if you used it.  Pretty good.

So you may want to consider some of these healing-type powers to keep yourself up and about.


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## Mistwell

Sanzuo said:


> Why isn't toughness a good choice?  Thatwackyned's warden is doing some hardcore defending in his group and the extra hp goes a long way to keeping him up, even if it's only for another round or two.  There's no reason for him not to take it, especially by paragon.




Because we are not talking about a lot of hit points, relative to the other choices he can take to increase his defenderness.  Toughness is best for those who will go down frequently without it.  A warden already has the best HP in the game, and a Goliath Warden has even more than the normal one.  They also have good AC, and he took a shield so he has even better AC.  It seems like a really really low priority to focus on yet more hit points.  It won't come up most of the time, while other feats can come up every single round.


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## Thatwackyned

Thanks Sanzuo, I'll be looking into those powers.

Is there any feat to increase my Defences?  

I've taken the new Skill Utility power from players Handbook 3.
Endure Pain Endurance Utility 2 
You grin and bear it, shrugging off the pain of a new wound. 
Daily 
Immediate Interrupt Personal 
Trigger: You are hit by an attack 
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, you gain resistance to all 
damage equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier. ​Anyting to give my more defence constant?


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## Sanzuo

You won't have anything available to you at heroic that merely raises your defenses all the time.  It will all be situational.  The only feat available to you now that helps your defenses is Markings of the Predator, which gives you +1 defenses when you bloody something.  That, and defensive mobility.

Other ways to increase your defenses are with the items I mentioned earlier.


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## sigfile

Thatwackyned said:


> Yah, they are Shifty.  He's shifting them all over the place.  But when marked, it's still more of an advantage to target me, than the squishies.  For one thing, I have Wardens Fury if they are in reach and Warden's Grasp if with in 5.  So why take the extra damage.




You're playing a sword'n'board warden.  An *adjacent* kobold that attacks one of your allies is likely to get decked with Warden's Fury, taking damage and granting combat advantage to your allies.  A kobold at any range from you is going to be slid, slowed, and blocked from shifting until the end of it's turn as a reaction to attacking an ally.  You only get one of those a turn, and it's a rare day when you're facing down a lone kobold.

Look, it comes down to the DM.  If your marked targets are always attacking you, that's great.  Focus on survivability.  If the DM is constantly looking to get the kobolds past you and in to the squishies' faces (and succeeding), you might need to get tricksy in return.  That's where Sudden Roots starts looking attractive.

On the topic of survivability... I agree that toughness isn't *bad*, but five HP isn't going to make a huge difference.  You'd probably be better off taking Student of Battle (multiclass Warlord) as someone suggested to earn a daily minor action heal.  

The other approach would be to switch out for a warhammer (or take a craghammer proficiency feat) and start dishing out extra damage through feats like Crippling Crush, Courage of the Lone Stag, and Crushing Guardian.  "Slowed" may not inconvenience kobolds a whole lot, but "dead" will certainly put a dent in their shifty tactics.  That also increases the odds that Markings of the Predator (already suggested) will actually trigger for you, increasing your defenses (it's still not a great feat -- it only triggers when YOU bloody a creature -- but it is an option to buff your defenses).  Once you hit high heroic, a Hammer Shield (also suggested earlier) will boost your defenses further.


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## Sanzuo

Depending on how his DM is handling treasure he could have a Hammer Shield as early as level 4!


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## Thatwackyned

I can't find Shield Hammer anywhere.  Can you post the stats and the page/book to find it please.  Thank you.


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## Sanzuo

Hammer Shield, not shield hammer.  From the Adventurer's Vault 2.  It's a shield enchantment that gives you an untyped +1 bonus to all defenses whenever you hit an enemy with a hammer.


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## Thatwackyned

That's an awesome ability for an item.

Any items lower level to increase your chance to hit.


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## Sanzuo

After looking around I've found there aren't a whole lot of items out there that consistently improve your attack bonus.  This is not surprising, hit bonuses are something that's very controlled in 4e and falls within a tight range for the purposes of balance.  Yet, damage can be explosively high for some reason.

Sorry if this isn't helpful.


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## Thatwackyned

It's very helpfull.  Thank you.

You stated a craghammer proficiency feat.  Can a Warden not use this item already?


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## Sanzuo

No, a craghammer is a superior weapon which means you need a specific feat to use it.  It's worth it.


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## Thatwackyned

oh.

Weapon Proficiency - Gain proficiency with the weapon of your choice.  This is what I need to use the Creghammer?  Would it cover all hammers?


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## Mistwell

Sanzuo said:


> No, a craghammer is a superior weapon which means you need a specific feat to use it.  It's worth it.




It might be worth it for the fun factor (rerolling 1s and 2s is fun), but I am not so sure it is worth it for the optimization factor.  It's an average of +1 damage.


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## Thatwackyned

I got ya.  Stick with the Long Sword so I can hit more often.


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## Thatwackyned

We are being jumped to level 9.  This is my build.  I'm really bad at Item selection, please help there.  They items already there are the ones that i've found/bought.  Remember I have no leader in my party, so survivability is the key.  Thank you.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Tam, level 9
Goliath, Warden
Build: Earth Warden
Guardian Might: Earthstrength
Background: Geography - Forest (+2 to Perception)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 20, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 16, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8.

AC: 25 Fort: 21 Reflex: 17 Will: 18
HP: 93 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 23
TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +12, Athletics +13, Endurance +11, Perception +12
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +4, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +4, Insight +5, Intimidate +3, Religion +4, Stealth +1, Streetwise +3, Thievery +1
FEATS
Level 1: Mark of Warding
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Craghammer)
Level 4: Crippling Crush
Level 6: Markings of the Elements
Level 8: Vicious Advantage
POWERS
Warden at-will 1: Weight of Earth
Warden at-will 1: Tempest Assault
Warden encounter 1: Gale Strike
Warden daily 1: Form of Winter's Herald
Warden utility 2: Endure Pain
Warden encounter 3: Rough Strike
Warden daily 5: Clutching Mire
Warden utility 6: Bear's Endurance
Warden encounter 7: Mountain Hammer
Warden daily 9: Form of the Stone Sentinel
ITEMS
Craghammer, Shield of Protection Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Bloodcut Hide Armor +1, Potion of Healing (heroic tier) (4), Adventurer's Kit, Backpack (empty), Bedroll, Javelin (4), Amulet of Health +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


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## Herschel

Dump the craghammer, go back to sword and get a magic weapon. Vengeful is great for a defender. Your accuracy will seriously be suffering otherwise.


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## sigfile

Hammers and CON wardens are great.  With a post-racial 18, you'll be fine.

I'd recommend a downgrade to a warhammer, though, and replace that proficiency slot with Sudden Roots.  Brutal is nice, but slowing on an OA is better.


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## sigfile

I'd also recommend a few swaparounds.  Take Form of Mountain's Thunder as your L5 Daily - it's a solid offensive AND defensive boost, and lets you further benefit from items and feats that give you bonuses while in a guardian form.  

I'd also encourage grabbing Weapon Expertise instead of Markings of the Elements.  That's a very situational feat, requiring opponents to be dealing elemental damage AND hitting you before it's going to be useful.

Vicious Advantage is nice, but also situational.  Good ol' Toughness will give you a bit more of a defensive edge, and can optionally be retrained at Paragon for Enhanced Font of Life for a +1 to saving throws.


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## Herschel

Ah, yeah, I missed the 16 STR was pre-racial. The hammer will be fine then, especially with expertise.


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## Thatwackyned

Everyone has Weapon Expertise (the +1 to hit), the DM auto adds it in.


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## Thatwackyned

I have a question about Stoneblessed Path.  With the Unusual Reach granting *YOUR* melee reach by +1, my DM states that it does not apply to a polearm.

Is this true?  If not, how can I prove it?

Thank you.


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## Aulirophile

Thatwackyned said:


> I have a question about Stoneblessed Path.  With the Unusual Reach granting *YOUR* melee reach by +1, my DM states that it does not apply to a polearm.
> 
> Is this true?  If not, how can I prove it?
> 
> Thank you.



If I can reach out a little over five feet, and I am holding something that reaches a little over five feet, the end of said object is a little over 10 feet away from me. In squares that means I am attacking with reach 2. 

Also "Melee" and "Weapon" are different keywords. You'll notice your powers have both. So take your melee reach, add your weapon reach, and now you have reach 3. 

Honestly not sure why he'd think a Paragon Path feature isn't completely beneficial.


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## Thatwackyned

Thanks, I'll pass that on.

Will the Unusual Reach +1 melee + a Polearm + Form of the oaken sentinal = reach +4?

or does Unusual reach not stack with Oaken Sentinal.


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## Aulirophile

Thatwackyned said:


> Thanks, I'll pass that on.
> 
> Will the Unusual Reach +1 melee + a Polearm + Form of the oaken sentinal = reach +4?
> 
> or does Unusual reach not stack with Oaken Sentinal.



Says "increases." It stacks. My Goliath Warden took the Eternal Defender ED and Stoneblessed. He wields a Halberd 1-handed, his base reach is 4 (meaning he can attack up to 4 squares away... there is some debate about whether that should be called reach 3, i.e., three squares in addition to normal melee reach. I find different parts of the rules about reach confusing with one definition but not the other and vice versa).


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## Thatwackyned

How did you get to Eternal Defender ED as a Warden?


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## abyssaldeath

Thatwackyned said:


> How did you get to Eternal Defender ED as a Warden?



Take a multi-class Fighter feat.


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## Aulirophile

Specifically I took Battle Awareness (one/encounter when an adjacent enemy shifts or makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target, you can make an MBA against it as an Immediate Interrupt). It makes shifting away dangerous at least once per encounter, and if for some reason I'm not marking something I can still thwack it.


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## Istar

*Goliath Warden Stoneblessed PP*

I am looking at either a Warhammer or a Polearm.

Warhammer having Crippling Crush...

Polearm having Reach 2

What feats can you add to a polearm to make it more useful.

Otherwise Warhammer still works post L11 with Stoneblessed.

As Natures wrath is now reach 2 so enemy cant shift 1 and then charge away from you


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