# Quick Draw usefulness?



## Rafael Ceurdepyr (Apr 7, 2005)

Could someone who's had experience with the Quick Draw feat explain to me the benefits of it?  I know it's a pre-req for other feats, obviously, but is it mainly good for drawing hidden weapons?


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## Crothian (Apr 7, 2005)

thrown weapons is were it shines.  If you want to throw multiple wepoans in a round it is a must have.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Apr 7, 2005)

Also if your character fights with two weapons, its very good.


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## Talmun (Apr 7, 2005)

Another good use is if you are is prone to switching weapons in combat (an archer, for instance)


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## der_kluge (Apr 7, 2005)

....otherwise it is as useless as 5 day old fish that's been left sitting out.


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## Crothian (Apr 7, 2005)

die_kluge said:
			
		

> ....otherwise it is as useless as 5 day old fish that's been left sitting out.




yes Curtis, like many feats it is useful for certain characters and useless for other.  Nothing wrong with that.


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## Zoatebix (Apr 7, 2005)

What he said.  Even darts don't count as ammunition - the only thrown weapon that works that way (like ammo) IIRC is the shuriken.

So if you want to rapid shot with your javelins or throwing axes or whatever, you'll need quick draw first.


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## the Lorax (Apr 7, 2005)

It is useful for any character who intends to switch weapons in combat.  Bow/crossbow users, and anyone who uses thrown weapons.  I have a whip based character who switches from Whip to Long Sword to Light Crossbow during the course of combat, and for him I love it.

With the 3.5 damage reduction changes, and the "golf bag" of weapons, Quick Draw can be a good way to test the effectiveness of weapons rapidly.

Quick draw is vital to thrown weapon use, or at least to someone who choses to concentrate on using thrown weapons.

Edit:

Guess I shouldn't get up from the 'puter before sending the message...


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## Zoatebix (Apr 7, 2005)

Oh - I guess you could use it to draw a weapon when you charge, too.


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## isoChron (Apr 7, 2005)

Charge with lance (on mount), then switch to sword and get a full attack instead of a single attack.
Quickdraw is very useful if you want to switch your weapon because the one you wield is
a) a ranged weapon in melee (and you are cornered)
b) ineffective due to DR
c) disarmed
d) thrown away and there are more to follow 
e) reach weapon in close combat
f) dropped because you were stunned
g) greased by the spell
h) hot hot hot (heat metal)
i) is not the wand you need right now
j) ......

Every time a character of mine doesn't take quickdraw he regrets it. Sure you can move and draw a weapon but a full attack is so much worth in these short timed combats...


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## ThirdWizard (Apr 7, 2005)

Polearm users get good benefit from it.

AoO when the enemy advances, then the next round you can still get a full attack without 5' stepping back.

EDIT: that's important if you're trying to keep the enemy away from those in the back


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 7, 2005)

It was a must-have for my half-ogre fighter/barbarian - we play with fumble charts and one of the most common fumbles is to drop your weapon. Once I dropped all 3 of my weapons in a single combat, within oh probably 8 rounds. I just kept rolling 1s that day... made me seriously consider investing in locked gauntlets - it sucked LOL


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## kenobi65 (Apr 7, 2005)

isoChron said:
			
		

> Quickdraw is very useful if you want to switch your weapon because the one you wield is
> a) a ranged weapon in melee (and you are cornered)
> b) ineffective due to DR
> c) disarmed
> ...



k) sundered by your opponent (referring to last week's hot thread )


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## Greylock (Apr 8, 2005)

isoChron said:
			
		

> Charge with lance (on mount), then switch to sword and get a full attack instead of a single attack...




Reiterating this. Even though the fellow known here as BealeKnight here suggested I take Quick Draw for my mounted guy ages ago, I never seriously considered it. Too many other useful feats out there,  I thought. I've since changed my mind. Never would have had a chance to change my mind until I acquired Gloves of Storing, which is basically the same in most situations as having Quick Draw. They have proven their worth over and over. It is pretty much assumed now that the gloves are always in play, kinda like Dodge.

...
....
.....
......
.......

On second thought... screw the feat. Get yourself some Gloves of Storing.


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## Elder-Basilisk (Apr 8, 2005)

My thoughts on Quickdraw:

1. It's useful for a character who switches weapons.
a. A sword and board or TWF character will regularly switch weapons to overcome DR. Power Attack doesn't work well enough for them to just power attack through it without switching to a two handed weapon/one-handed weapon held in two hands.
b. An archer type in a small party will often have to switch to melee.
c. A character who wants to optimize his ranged attacks before his foes close to melee range will find quickdraw useful. A barbarian, for instance, might carry a bow around most of the time then drop it and quickdraw his greatsword after his foe closes.
d. A character who wants to switch between reach and sword and board will need quickdraw to draw his weapon, ready his shield, and attack in the same round.
e. A character who uses weapons optimized against different opponents (for instance a +4 wounding guisarme and a +4 ghost touch undead bane longsword) will often find quickdraw useful.

2. Quickdraw is essential for a character specializing in non-shuriken throwing weapons.

3. Quickdraw is also useful for a character who has a lot of attacks and often drops his foes before he finishes the full attack. It allows him to quickdraw thrown weapons and finish up the attack action rather than having those attacks go to waste.

As for the Quickdraw vs. Gloves of Storing question: three words: Gloves of Dexterity.


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 8, 2005)

Elder-Basilisk said:
			
		

> b. An archer type in a small party will often have to switch to melee.
> c. A character who wants to optimize his ranged attacks before his foes close to melee range will find quickdraw useful. A barbarian, for instance, might carry a bow around most of the time then drop it and quickdraw his greatsword after his foe closes.




Both of those apply to my current character.

I picked up Quick Draw because it's a PrC prerequisite... but I've found I've been using it a lot!

(Though in my case, it's a barbarian carrying a bow and then quickdrawing a bastard sword.)

-Hyp.


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## SBMC (Apr 8, 2005)

*Quick Draw...*

I use it all the time. 

I play a fighter - I carry a mundane shortspear and a heavy steel shield.

1. Bad guy is 40 feet away and I need him to be dead soon. I have 2 attacks and a dagger & handaxe. As a free action I can drop my sword and tehn throw both weapons

2. I have lots of javelins...I can draw them as if they were arrows for a bow.

3. If I need to switch weapons quickly (as in now need a bludgeoning weapon against an ice construct...not that it has happened to me...)

4. I can make a full move, then a standard action (say attack someone) THEN draw a weapon as oppsoed to having to draw the weapon as I move (for one reason or another it may not be feasible or wanted).

It is one of those feats that can be very situational; but it also allows you to ALWAYS be able to draw a weapon at any time, anywhere (including wands and other items stored as weapons might be as well)


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 8, 2005)

SBMC said:
			
		

> 4. I can make a full move, then a standard action (say attack someone) THEN draw a weapon as oppsoed to having to draw the weapon as I move (for one reason or another it may not be feasible or wanted).




First example that comes to mind - your longsword/shortsword TWFer can't use his shortsword on that standard action attack, but if he draws it while moving, it occupies a hand.  With Quickdraw, he can move, strike with his longsword wielded in two hands for extra Str bonus to damage, then Quickdraw his shortsword for next round's full attack.



> It is one of those feats that can be very situational; but it also allows you to ALWAYS be able to draw a weapon at any time, anywhere (including wands and other items stored as weapons might be as well)




That's debatable 

To draw a wand, you use the Draw a Weapon move action: 

_*Draw or Sheathe a Weapon*
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. *This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands.* If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item._

The action refers to "weapon or weapon-like object".

The Quick Draw feat, on the other hand...

_*QUICK DRAW [GENERAL]*
Benefit: You can *draw a weapon* as a free action instead of as a move action. _

... does not.

Now, it can be argued that when Quick Draw says "You can draw a weapon", it is referring not to 'drawing a weapon', but rather to the 'Draw a Weapon action'.  In which case wands are included, since the Draw a Weapon action covers both weapons and weapon-like objects.

But it can also be argued that Quick Draw allows you to draw a weapon as a free action, while drawing a weapon-like object is outside the scope of the feat, and takes a move action as normal (or a free action combined with a regular move, with a BAB of +1 or higher).

-Hyp.


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## Ridley's Cohort (Apr 8, 2005)

This topic should be on the ENWorld FAQ...

I found it fabulously helpful for a ranger I played for a bit.  I was a TWF style ranger, but because of my soft AC I often had to pull out of the fray mid-combat.

Typical combat.  Start with longspear.  Drop spear.  Pull out bow.  Then drop bow and pull out two swords.  Drop swords and pull out second bow.

Boy I was sorry when we had to retreat and leave all those weapons on the ground.  But at least I lived...


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## Shellman (Apr 8, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> Reiterating this. Even though the fellow known here as BealeKnight here suggested I take Quick Draw for my mounted guy ages ago, I never seriously considered it. Too many other useful feats out there,  I thought. I've since changed my mind. Never would have had a chance to change my mind until I acquired Gloves of Storing, which is basically the same in most situations as having Quick Draw. They have proven their worth over and over. It is pretty much assumed now that the gloves are always in play, kinda like Dodge.
> 
> ...
> ....
> ...




Correction....Dodge is not always in play!

1. You have to declare dodge to use it. (You wouldn't believe the number of people take the Dodge feat and forget to declare it,; therefore they do not gain the benfit of the feat thatt round.)
2. You can only dodge one opponent at a time unless you have that superior dodge class ability from the Duelist or Swashbuckler.


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## Greylock (Apr 8, 2005)

Shellman said:
			
		

> Correction....Dodge is not always in play!




It's a very common way to use Dodge. I automatically add the modifier in, then adjust AC down if my char is attacked by two creatures in the same round. Much, much simpler than calling "Dodge!" every single damned round. Just like I don't yell "Mobility!" every single time I provoke an AoO on purpose. Thing is, it's been so long since two critters tackled me at once that yes, Dodge is always assumed.


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## sullivan (Apr 8, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> It's a very common way to use Dodge. I automatically add the modifier in, then adjust AC down if my char is attacked by two creatures in the same round. Much, much simpler than calling "Dodge!" every single damned round. Just like I don't yell "Mobility!" every single time I provoke an AoO on purpose. Thing is, it's been so long since two critters tackled me at once that yes, Dodge is always assumed.




Ya, we generally do this as well. It can be thought of as a blanket declare. There is a cavet though, that being to have it work like RAW you must have already had one action in the combat, and the attacker in question had to be known to you at that time.


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## iwatt (Apr 8, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> It's a very common way to use Dodge. I automatically add the modifier in, then adjust AC down if my char is attacked by two creatures in the same round. Much, much simpler than calling "Dodge!" every single damned round. Just like I don't yell "Mobility!" every single time I provoke an AoO on purpose. Thing is, it's been so long since two critters tackled me at once that yes, Dodge is always assumed.




I just got tired of remembering who had the +1 assigned. Just have doge give a +1 to AC all the time, against everybody. +1 Ac is not going to break anything. And it also stops the annoying 10 second dither of which target should have the dodge assigne dto. My players aren't the quickest in combat yet  :\


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## Stalker0 (Apr 8, 2005)

Quickdraw is very useful once you get two attacks a round.

First round, you can either draw and attack...or go BAM/BAM!! This is especially true for rogues when that first attack is often the majority of their damage for that combat.


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## frankthedm (Apr 12, 2005)

It is a great feat if your group plays by the rules. If the DM is a pushover and you always get to have what you want in your hands, then it is not so hot.


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## Toras (Apr 13, 2005)

Because normally I want my hands free to grab onto the (ledge, rope, fellow adventure who failed to notice pit trap, and opposing mage).  It also helps if you want to walk out with your hands above your head and then gut your opponent when he least expect it.

And because once you gots the feats for it, charge can rule as well.


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 13, 2005)

I also house-ruled quickdraw so that someone with the feat can not only draw a weapon as a free action, but they can also sheath one as a free action too, without provoking an AoO. I did this because I have always thought that martial art wherein one only draws his sword to strike and then immediately sheaths it in one fluid motion was cool.


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## the Jester (Apr 13, 2005)

I love Quickdraw.  My ranger/rogue/fighter has it, and it was about my 3rd feat (not counting bonus feats from ranger).  I use two weapons, so I use it a lot.  Also for switching from bow to axes.  

As a dm, I have built a number of feats off of it (Quick-Strike, Hidden Threat, etc).


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## moritheil (Apr 20, 2005)

IIRC Iaijutsu builds have Quick Draw as a prereq for precisely this reason.



			
				Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> I also house-ruled quickdraw so that someone with the feat can not only draw a weapon as a free action, but they can also sheath one as a free action too, without provoking an AoO. I did this because I have always thought that martial art wherein one only draws his sword to strike and then immediately sheaths it in one fluid motion was cool.


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 20, 2005)

moritheil said:
			
		

> IIRC Iaijutsu builds have Quick Draw as a prereq for precisely this reason.




Awesome - what book are they in?


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## Greylock (May 8, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> Polearm users get good benefit from it.
> 
> AoO when the enemy advances, then the next round you can still get a full attack without 5' stepping back.




I know, old topic. But I'm considering Quickdraw for a longspear/bow guy I am running and I wonder if anyone can clarify the above statement. Maybe a Page #?


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## Crothian (May 8, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Awesome - what book are they in?





Oriental Adventures


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (May 8, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> I know, old topic. But I'm considering Quickdraw for a longspear/bow guy I am running and I wonder if anyone can clarify the above statement. Maybe a Page #?




What part of it do you need clarified?


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## Greylock (May 9, 2005)

All of it. And how it relates to Quickdraw. I must be having a blond day, because I'm not getting it.


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## Chorn (May 9, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> All of it. And how it relates to Quickdraw. I must be having a blond day, because I'm not getting it.



ThirdWizard is most likely referring to a situation where you're armed with a longspear that threatens at 10' but not within.  So an enemy who moves within 5' must leave a threatened square provoking an AoO before attacking.  On your turn, you can drop the spear as a free action and Quick Draw your greatsword to hack him to pieces.

Doing this, you can get an extra attack in the form of an AoO without continually backstepping to use your reach weapon or losing the full attack when you use a move action drawing your more optimal melee weapon.  You only really gain one extra attack with the reach weapon compared to simply sticking to your greatsword, but the reach weapon may open some more tactical options that you can better exploit when you can Quick Draw that greatsword you spent so many feats specializing in.  For example, using a tripping weapon to send your opponent to the floor as your AoO denying him his attacks.  Draw your sword and get more payoff on your multiple attacks from the bonus for attacking prone opponents.

Does that clear up the ditziness?


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## Caeleddin (May 9, 2005)

Chorn - I have several questions in relation to your post above. An Attack of Opportunity can be any sort of physical attack that a person is capable of deal with a weapon that threatens that square, correct? If so, can you use Improved Trip as an AoO when the guy is charging in? Does he drop 10ft away from you or right next to you if you pull off the Trip? Does this abort his charge as well?


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## Greylock (May 9, 2005)

Chorn said:
			
		

> Does that clear up the ditziness?




Thanks, Chorn. It helps a ton. Seeing your explanation, and your fun assumptions [insert many smilies] helped me get into ThirdWizards groove. I'm getting a real chuckle out of imagining this character (4'7" Elven midget) using a Greatsword, as well as the idea he will ever get a second attack (Cleric with Bloodline level subs). 

But it makes much more sense now. Tnx 

The feat still looks like a good option for his next. Many uses.


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## MoonZar (May 9, 2005)

Rafael Ceurdepyr said:
			
		

> Could someone who's had experience with the Quick Draw feat explain to me the benefits of it?  I know it's a pre-req for other feats, obviously, but is it mainly good for drawing hidden weapons?




Thrown weapon, when u have 3-4 attack each round and you want to throw dagger, you need this feet or this take a move action to take a dagger out of his scabbard.

Another usefulness is for surprise round, if you gain the surprise you can draw your weapon as a free action and attack immediatly, for rogue this very cool to make sneak attack.

Also you can surprise someone very easly if you draw as a free action and attack immediatly. 

Of course if your dm doesn't apply the rules that a move action is required to draw, this not useful at all...


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## kjenks (May 9, 2005)

isoChron said:
			
		

> Charge with lance (on mount), then switch to sword and get a full attack instead of a single attack.




Man, my 13th level guy has been wishing for Quickdraw lately. Spirited Charge/Shock Trooper/Heedless with a lance at +25 for 3d8+102 in round one, then damage drops considerably in round two as he drops his lance and spends a move action getting out his Spikes-enhanced Greatclub before a single attack -- as opposed to four attacks if he had Quickdraw.


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## Coredump (May 9, 2005)

Caeleddin said:
			
		

> Chorn - I have several questions in relation to your post above. An Attack of Opportunity can be any sort of physical attack that a person is capable of deal with a weapon that threatens that square, correct?



Pretty much. There are some limitations, but I don't remember exactly what. (Perhaps disarm can't be done AoO?)







> If so, can you use Improved Trip as an AoO when the guy is charging in?



Technically you just trip, imp trip lets you hit him again. 







> Does he drop 10ft away from you or right next to you if you pull off the Trip? Does this abort his charge as well?



He drops 10' away. (and provokes and AoO when he tries to get up) And it will abort his *charge*, but if he was just moving, he still gets to complete his turn.


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## Galethorn (May 9, 2005)

In a now defunct campaign, I took Quick Draw for a very specific tactic...

First of all, my character was a pirate captain with a blunderbuss...which he always kept loaded between fights.

He had pretty high dex, and I took Improved Initiative...

Combined with a high spot/listen skill, most attempts to Sneak Attack/otherwise surprise him went something like this;

DM: <rolls dice> "You see him reaching for the pistol on his belt; roll initiative!" <rolls for NPC> "12"
Me: <rolls> "23. I Quickdraw my blunderbuss and shoot him." <roll damage> "28."
DM: <rolls reflex save> "Ugh. Yeah, you hit him." <rolls fort save (since it's a Grim Tales game)> "He dies."
Me (in character): "Anybody else want to try their hand at bein' captain? Anybody?!"

Yeah, so, when you've got high initiative, and a good spot skill, and improved initiative, you can avoid getting caught flat-footed...but with Quickdraw, you can completely reverse the surprise.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (May 9, 2005)

Coredump said:
			
		

> There are some limitations, but I don't remember exactly what. (Perhaps disarm can't be done AoO?)




You can disarm him.  You can't sunder his weapon (which is a standard action all its own).  



> And it will abort his *charge*, but if he was just moving, he still gets to complete his turn.




For further clarification, if he was actually Charging, he's done.  Charge is a full-round action that lets you move up to 2x your speed in a straight line, with a minimum of 10' moved, and attack once with some modifiers.

If he was Withdrawing, then he's done.  Withdraw is a full-round action which lets you move up to 2x your speed and not provoke an AoO for leaving the first threatened square.

If he was Running, then he's done.  Run is a full-round action which lets you move up to 4x your speed (3x in heavy armor, etc.) in a straight line.

If he was just moving, then if he has only used a single move-action, he can use his second move action to stand up.  This provokes another AoO (which is why people with reach weapons like Combat Reflexes).  If, however, he has moved more than his speed (i.e., has taken two move actions to move), then he's done.


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