# Tiamat stats?



## Wolffenjugend (Mar 9, 2004)

Are there official 3.0/3.5 stats for Tiamat somewhere?


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 9, 2004)

Sure.  The Manual of the Planes (3.0) has "avatar"-type stats, CR ~25.  Deities and Demigods (3.0) has stats as a god.


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## Alzrius (Mar 9, 2004)

The 3.5 update booklet also outlines the changes to make to the Tiamat of both books to bring her in line with 3.5E.


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## Wolffenjugend (Mar 9, 2004)

Thanks!


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## Dr_Rictus (Mar 9, 2004)

As an aside, there are also stats for "aspects" of various dieties (Tiamat among them) in the _Miniatures Handbook_, which are encounters more in line with high- but not epic-level parties.  Typically around CR11.  Think of an aspect as sort of a pale shadow version of an avatar, with just one or two special abilities (hence, representing just a particular aspect of the diety).


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## mhd (Mar 9, 2004)

Hmm, any info about Venger?


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## Wolffenjugend (Mar 9, 2004)

Yeah, I saw the aspects in the MH but I thought they were a pretty lame attempt to make avatars that a lower level party could face w/o a TPK. Now the Tiamat avatar in the MotP, THAT's an avatar!


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## Nookie (Jun 11, 2013)

I always though that tiamat was kinda lacking (and bahamut as well) For The respective rules of dragon kind thr normal dragons just had more tricks up their sleeves.


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