# What Sterotypes do you hate?



## HeavenShallBurn (Aug 23, 2006)

A single thread for all your media stereotype hate needs.

So tell me what popular media stereotypes have you had enough of?  What characteristic in media, whether books, movies, comics, TV, whatever has you pissed off because it just won't go away?

Personally my list is like this
1.  Pre-teen heroes I am personally sick and tired of having series built around a bunch of thirteen year old kids "save the world" from "villians" who wouldn't even rate an honourable mention in the World Court and couldn't even get on the list of the International War Crimes tribunal.
2.  Incompetent heroes who always win because they're the protagonist even when for the entire balance of the piece except when they absolutely need to win they are completely useless tools.
3.  *Looks at popularized modern anime "I'm talking to you"* the combination of 1 and 2 into "heroes" that are not only so young they're just a bad joke they are also stupid to the point of riding the short-bus, indecisive beyond all measure, terminally incompetent and unconfident, and make you want to see the villian win just so they will die and stop their pre-teen drama fest so something good can take its place.


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## ThirdWizard (Aug 24, 2006)

Can you give an example of #3?


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## HeavenShallBurn (Aug 24, 2006)

<Racking my brains because I haven't watched anime much lately because of this>
Naruto- somehow even though he's certifiably moronic and seems across the run of the series to be incompetent at things background characters take for granted suddenly when he needs to win because he's the protagonist he wins despite a general lack of aptitude
Tenchi Muyo-It's one of those anime perrenials, but it's characters like Tenchi that are the worst offenders.
Any Magical Girl Anime-Sailor Moon is just the top of this list but the rest is just as annoying.


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## ThirdWizard (Aug 24, 2006)

I agree about Tenchi, but its a comedy so I can just ignore it.

Naruto starts out pretty stupid, but he gets smarter. Goku from DB is probably the ultimate example of that kind of thing. He was an idiot. I think the Japanese like idiot heroes for some reason.

My major pet peeve is "reverse the polarity." It's the solution to _everything_. *twitch*


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## Mark (Aug 24, 2006)

Incompetent Dads have become overdone by a good margin at this point.


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## Starman (Aug 24, 2006)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> My major pet peeve is "reverse the polarity." It's the solution to _everything_. *twitch*




Have you tried reversing the polarity of your stereotype likes/dislikes?


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## trancejeremy (Aug 24, 2006)

People who slide down ropes (or other things) without gloves and don't hurt their hands.


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## ThirdWizard (Aug 24, 2006)

Starman said:
			
		

> Have you tried reversing the polarity of your stereotype likes/dislikes?




I think that would cause the universe to implode upon itself.



			
				Mark said:
			
		

> Incompetent Dads have become overdone by a good margin at this point.




Agree totally.


Here's another one from anime: one minute the hero can't possibly win, the next he's super powerful. (corollary: one sided fights)


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## HeavenShallBurn (Aug 24, 2006)

Thank you Goku was a far better example than Tenchi I think I just blocked him out because he was so annoying.

Another anime hate-"fights" composed to long stretches of alternate monologuing and incoherent screaming interspersed with a a handful of actual blows being traded.  DBZ the icon of this style but you see it to a lesser extent in way too much anime.  It's a fight not an ****ing debate club.


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## RangerWickett (Aug 24, 2006)

Stepping away from anime, I have been trained to hate "tough chicks." You know, the ones like Faith from Buffy who are just so cool because their lives were so rough. Sure, they're hot, and can kick ass, but they don't care, because they're so tough. And if a man ever even looks like he wants to help her somehow, he can go to hell, because she's a tough chick, and tough chicks don't need _men_.

Please be aware of intense bitterness and intermittent sarcasm in the above paragraph.

On the same line, the brooding hero. Oh, angst. Oh, he's so dark because he doesn't know what to do, and he can't reconcile his dark side with his need to be a hero. B***h, grow up, learn to talk about your feelings, and get over yourself so you can save the world. Drizzt, I'm looking at you. Heck, Smallville Clark Kent falls into this category too.

Now mind you, I don't dislike tough women or dark heroes. Tank girl is an awesome character, and Buffy mostly was too. Ripley from Aliens is the pinnacle of a cool tough woman. I just dislike the ones who are full of themselves, and who are presented in the book/movie/show as legitimately being cool, when actually they're lame. Likewise, Batman is cool because he has mostly come to terms with any of his angst. Angel (from Buffy) started off kinda lame, but once he lightened up and came to joke about his own angstiness, he became a great character.


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## drothgery (Aug 24, 2006)

Young Heroes are not allowed to come from healthy, loving families, where both of their parents are still alive and are still married. Middle-aged heroes cannot have a stable relationship (if a spouse and/or kids exist, there are certainly factors that mean the hero's family is on the edge of falling apart). No one knows why this happens.

I understand faster than light travel is pretty much necessary for planet-hopping sci-fi, but that doesn't mean you need to throw a few dozen other impossible things into the story.

Plot reuse. If a series lasts more than two seasons, you will see the same episode repeated with a minor variation at least once.


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## iwatt (Aug 24, 2006)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> Goku from DB is probably the ultimate example of that kind of thing. He was an idiot.




No question that he was an idiot. But he was a freaking genius at fighting. So I don't think you cana ctually classify him as incompetent.


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## Villano (Aug 24, 2006)

Mark said:
			
		

> Incompetent Dads have become overdone by a good margin at this point.




I agree with that 110%.

Also, I hate when an innocent person stumbles across a dead body and either 1.) runs away because he thinks that the police will think he did it, or 2.) a stranger shows up and starts screaming that they saw the person commit the murder.

Idiot police are another pet peeve.  You've seen them a million times.  They're the ones that never, ever believe the hero no matter how obvious it is that he is telling the truth, or leap to incredible conclusions ("You obviously ripped the victim to pieces even though you don't have a weapon or a drop of blood on your clothes.").

People from the south that look like they stepped out of Deliverance.  "We is from Georgia, we don't know nuttin' bout dese Cell Phones, shoes, or indoor plumbing.  Hey, is dat a cee-ment pond?"  

White teacher (coach, etc.) who shows up and mentors poor, minority children.

Scientists who walk up to the monster that just killed half the cast and try to reason with it.  "It traveled here in a space ship, it must be intelligent!"  Dude, it bit the heads off of three people.  Trust me, it doesn't care about talking.

The moron in a horror film that doesn't know how to kill a werewolf.  Someone always has to explain the whole "silver bullets" thing to them.  Everyone knows about silver bullets!  

The jerk in a horror movie.  Night Of The Living Dead may have started it, but Romero gets a pass because, in the end, his jerk was right; the basement was the safest place.  Jerks in horror movies  today have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.  They are there to add simplistic conflict and to have someone there that the audience will root for to die.  This is sometimes a part of...

The nerd fantasy.  You know, the dorky guy saves the day and gets the girl, while the jock turns out total jerk and completely useless (in a cartoonishly over the top way).

And, for once, can the rich girls be nice and the poor girl from the wrong side of the tracks be the evil bitch?




			
				HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> Pre-teen heroes I am personally sick and tired of having series built around a bunch of thirteen year old kids "save the world" from "villians" who wouldn't even rate an honourable mention in the World Court and couldn't even get on the list of the International War Crimes tribunal.




I'll add "Teen Heroes" to the list, especially in Buffy-like horror films (watch the commercials for the new film The Covenant for an example).


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## Jamdin (Aug 24, 2006)

With all the talk of teen heroes, my hate goes towards the treatment of older super heroes. I don't mind them retiring or dying if the story is good but I hate making them young again.


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## ThirdWizard (Aug 24, 2006)

iwatt said:
			
		

> No question that he was an idiot. But he was a freaking genius at fighting. So I don't think you cana ctually classify him as incompetent.




Was he in Dragonball? I could be wrong, that's just how I remembered it. Though, it's been a while.


Villano, I'll add heroes going to check on the body of the monster and the monster suddenly jumping up to get shot down by another character before killing the hero. How many times do we have to see that???


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## Dark Jezter (Aug 24, 2006)

I'm a little tired of sitcoms where the dad is a moron, the mom is a smug know-it-all, and the children all act about 5 years older than they really are.

One of the reasons I like *King of the Hill* is that it has a non-stereotypical sitcom family: Hank is a very competent, hard-working man (though kind of a square),  Peggy thinks that she's a lot smarter than she really is and has an incredibly exaggerated sense of self-esteem (for example, in one episode she says "I'm what Oprah calls a superwoman"), and Bobby is a spaz who loves television, prop comedy, and video games.


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## WayneLigon (Aug 24, 2006)

Done badly, there are any number of stereotypes that I find annoying. They can, _all _ of them, also be done well and in an entertaining manner. It all depends on the subject matter, the personalities and charisma involved, as well as a hundred other subtle little things.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 24, 2006)

Sighs.

I hate the "Steven Seagal & Jean-Claude Van Damme" stereotype.


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## bodhi (Aug 24, 2006)

1) The reluctant hero. I mentioned this one in another thread at some point. I'm tired of the whiny "But Daaaaad! I don't _wanna_ save the world today! I've got a zit!". Tough. You're the Chosen One/Slayer/Last Descendant of Googly-Moogly. Suck it up and save the world.

2) Characters not talking to each other. This is seen mostly in sitcoms to generate said comedic situations. Person A overhears a snippet of conversation between B and C, completely out of context, and draws the completely incorrect conclusion. Madcap hijinks ensue. Since, of course, finding out what's actually going on would end the show (or movie) about 10% in.

3) Science fiction movies where clearly none of the characters has ever read any science fiction. Or science textbooks, for that matter.


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## Plane Sailing (Aug 24, 2006)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> 2. Incompetent heroes who always win because they're the protagonist even when for the entire balance of the piece except when they absolutely need to win they are completely useless tools.




Hate it with a passion. Makes the whole thing into a non-story for me.

A related issue is the fight in which the hero gets beaten to a pulp and hardly touches the other guy... and then suddenly gets his second wind and comes back to beat the villain.



			
				Mark said:
			
		

> Incompetent Dads have become overdone by a good margin at this point.




Also hate it with a passion. In the UK this has become a STAPLE of TV advertising. If the adverts were all full of incompetent wives with canny husbands there would be an outcry, but incompetent dads with canny wives? All over the shop. Bah.


Cheers


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## Geoff Watson (Aug 24, 2006)

Only "White Men" can be villians.

Anyone else being a villian gets calls of racism or sexism, but white men are fair game.

Geoff.


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## Hand of Evil (Aug 24, 2006)

Professionals that are outsmarted by teens.  They are always escaping, kicking their asses, and so forth, it does not matter is it is the police, the CIA, the army, navy, marines, or killers and spys, those young adults just make them look like fools.  Oh, and they can't shoot!


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## Technomancer (Aug 24, 2006)

Not really a stereotype, more of a convention, but when the bad guy, who has burned villages, killed women and children, and wears boots made from endangered animals, is beaten and the good guys finally have him at gunpoint at their mercy, they don't kill him because that would be stooping to his level and would make them just as bad as him.  

Whatever.


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## RangerWickett (Aug 24, 2006)

Technomancer said:
			
		

> Not really a stereotype, more of a convention, but when the bad guy, who has burned villages, killed women and children, and wears boots made from endangered animals, is beaten and the good guys finally have him at gunpoint at their mercy, they don't kill him because that would be stooping to his level and would make them just as bad as him.
> 
> Whatever.




This is immediately followed by said villain attempting to take advantage of the hero's mercy in order to kill the hero. The hero is allowed, in the face of such immediate peril, to shoot and kill the villain in self defense.

On the other hand, I personally agree with not stooping to the bad guy's level. I wouldn't even want to bend over a little bit. I'm an optimist when it comes to rehabilitating people.


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## Huw (Aug 24, 2006)

Geoff Watson said:
			
		

> Only "White Men" can be villians.
> 
> Anyone else being a villian gets calls of racism or sexism, but white men are fair game.
> 
> Geoff.




Especially if they're British.

On a related note, it's less of a problem now, but there used to be a cliche I call "Token black character got promoted". Instead of being the cleaner or comms officer, they're suddenly the police chief, mayor or president. They still have very little to do, but the character has a more impressive title and better clothes.


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## Psion (Aug 24, 2006)

I don't know if this counts, but caterwauling as the crew/team/heroes get into a fix of "ohmygawdwe'regonnadie"!!! Which imediately gets me thinking "you have how many more shows in this season." Yeah, I know, it's a necessary evil that you know most characters have virtual script immunity, but by belaboring it, you just draw attention to it.


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## Mark Chance (Aug 24, 2006)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> Stepping away from anime, I have been trained to hate "tough chicks."




This is bad when it's combined with a "message," like in the inexcusable waste of film that was G.I. Jane. Jesse "The Body" Ventura, who was a Navy SEAL, summarized G.I. Jane (I paraphrase): _Yeah, I saw that. Demi Moore had nice breasts._

Quite commonly used: Christians are either deviant hypocrites or ignorant rednecks, unless, of course, they're religious beliefs are so watered down as to be essentially indistinguishable from a Miss Manners column. This is right up there with all Muslims being wild-eyed fanatics (although, admittedly, this one seems to be going out of vogue).


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## delericho (Aug 24, 2006)

3) Reset button episodes. So, Janeway crashes Voyager into the time ship, and suddenly we're back where we started. Hurrah! So, why did I just bother watching again? (Voyager was particularly bad for this - I started to wonder if anything actually happened on their journey home.)

2) Mirror Universes. Not so much because I dislike the universe (I generally think they're pretty cool), but often I think I would much rather watch that show instead. Besides, it's just another way to say "this didn't really happen".

1) Characters coming back from the dead. It worked with Spock, and it almost worked with Buffy (sadly, season 6 as a whole didn't quite work), but in general it just sucks. If death is supposed to mean something then it has to hurt. Which means it really should be final. These days, I'll pretty much only accept a character returning if the cost to get the character back was extremely high, and the consequences of that return are significant and far-reaching. At the very least, the character should be forever changed by the experience. (Or, you know, just don't kill them in the first place. Is that maybe too radical a concept?)


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## Villano (Aug 24, 2006)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> Villano, I'll add heroes going to check on the body of the monster and the monster suddenly jumping up to get shot down by another character before killing the hero. How many times do we have to see that???




It doesn't even have to be a monster, just any old killer will do.   

Also, I'll add some things from Jabootu's website:



> Designated Hero : A character who we know the film regards as its ‘hero,’ even though he or she is not, in any objective sense, all that heroic. Designated Heroes usually get a ‘free from responsibility’ pass from the filmmakers, even when their actions result in mass deaths. Take, for example, Ally Sheedy’s reporter character in Man’s Best Friend. The movie ‘blames’ its generic Mad Scientist for the film’s mayhem. Yet it was the film’s ‘heroine’ who illegally broke into the guy’s lab and, in fact, loosed the killer dog upon the world. She then hides the dog at home, over the objections of her boyfriend, who is later horribly killed by it. Yet the film never explores (or even mentions) her culpability in the resultant carnage, pretty much just because she’s ‘the hero.’




The idiot "hero" of the Planet of the Apes remake falls into this category.  He disobeyed orders, which led to the ship (or space station or whatever it was) crashing.



> Hero’s Death Battle Exemption : This rule stipulates that a monster or murderer will have to spend at least ten times the amount of time and effort killing a hero/heroine (or his/her significant other) than anyone else in the picture. EXAMPLE: In Prophecy, the killer mutant bear instantly kills folks throughout the movie with one swipe of its claw. Yet it ‘chooses’ to pick up the hero and hold him up to its face long enough to allow him to repeatedly stab it in the head with an arrow, eventually killing it. This despite the fact that the hero’s attack takes well over ten times the amount of time that it took the bear to kill any other person in the film. Even then, the hero emerges from the bear’s claws unscathed.




I hate this.  Everyone else who gets hit once by something dies, except the hero.  I'm reminded of the old Buck Rodgers series.  Only the heroes' ships can just be damaged by a direct hit, everyone else explodes.

And this next one is something I've always thought about in Friday the 13th films...



> The Avoid the Limbs Rule : This stipulates that when confronting a monster who can be damaged by gunfire (i.e., we can see chunks blown off) but not killed, that the shooter will never try to blow the creature’s legs off, so as to disable it or at least slow down pursuit.


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## werk (Aug 24, 2006)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> Hate it with a passion. Makes the whole thing into a non-story for me.
> 
> A related issue is the fight in which the hero gets beaten to a pulp and hardly touches the other guy... and then suddenly gets his second wind and comes back to beat the villain.




Isn't that Hulk Hogan Syndrome?  The more beat up the hero gets, the tougher he is once he 'gets mad'.



The STEREOTYPE that I dislike is liars or the lying hero.  So many sitcoms and movies entire plot is caused by a single lie of convenience, or the witholding of information.  They lie to stay out of trouble or to cover something up that is innocuous but could be misconstrued, and that invariably balloons out of their control...and hilarity ensues.


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## Templetroll (Aug 25, 2006)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> I agree about Tenchi, but its a comedy so I can just ignore it.
> 
> Naruto starts out pretty stupid, but he gets smarter. Goku from DB is probably the ultimate example of that kind of thing. He was an idiot. I think the Japanese like idiot heroes for some reason.
> 
> My major pet peeve is "reverse the polarity." It's the solution to _everything_. *twitch*




I like Goku, though.  He is the eternal innocent that allows the hypocrisy of the world to be revealed in all its sordid glory!  I dislike the DBEndless Battles that accomplish nothing, however.  DB was great, DBZ had some good parts and the rest I don't watch.

From Wikipedia:


> The catchphrase most associated with the Third Doctor's era is probably "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow". The phrase was Pertwee's way of dealing with the technobabble that he was required to speak as the Doctor. He wanted something all purpose and easy to remember instead of myriad made-up dialogue, and Terrance Dicks provided him with the phrase.




All the other times you hear it it is an homage to Dr Who and that is a cool thing (tm).


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## bodhi (Aug 25, 2006)

delericho said:
			
		

> 1) Characters coming back from the dead. It worked with Spock, and it almost worked with Buffy (sadly, season 6 as a whole didn't quite work), but in general it just sucks.



One thing I liked about Buffy post-resurrection is that they did touch on the trauma of being yanked back into mortality.



			
				delericho said:
			
		

> At the very least, the character should be forever changed by the experience.



On the other hand, it didn't seem to have much of a _lasting_ impact. Or as much as it should have.


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## Templetroll (Aug 25, 2006)

drothgery said:
			
		

> Plot reuse. If a series lasts more than two seasons, you will see the same episode repeated with a minor variation at least once.




The writer rewrote the script for different shows.  How many times have you though a plot seemed familiar when watching some show and it turns out it was same story on different show.  Start with the hit and run where the victim is stuck in the windshield, perp drives home expecting to sober up then go back out and call it in.  Twist, from a true story, is that the victim is NOT dead and then the person has to leave them there to slowly die and then get rid of the body and the car yadda yadda.


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## KenM (Aug 25, 2006)

Villano said:
			
		

> the jock turns out total jerk and completely useless ....






  Thats not streotyping, thats real life. Jocks are useless.


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## Starman (Aug 25, 2006)

KenM said:
			
		

> Thats not streotyping, thats real life. Jocks are useless.




KenM, we all know your hate of jocks know no limit, so you don't need to remind us in every thread.


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## delericho (Aug 25, 2006)

bodhi said:
			
		

> One thing I liked about Buffy post-resurrection is that they did touch on the trauma of being yanked back into mortality.




Indeed. That's why I said it almost worked.

Sadly, the major consequence of the trauma seemed to be Buffy spending the year being incredibly depressed, and cutting herself off from all her friends.

Although that was entirely appropriate from a story point of view, it removed much of what I enjoyed about the show from the mix (that being the interplay between the major characters). Couple that with the lack of a compelling Big Bad (a la Angelus or the Mayor), and the season as a whole really fell flat (and I can even understand the reason for that - the "Life is the Big Bad" angle makes some sense).

It was a well told story. Sadly, it was not really a story I particularly enjoyed.


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## mmu1 (Aug 25, 2006)

1. The brilliant intellectual (college professor, researcher, writer, etc.) who never solves anything through physical action - no matter how appropriate it would be, or how much it would simplify things. When he's not outsmarting the bad guys, he's running for his life. His friends are almost always even more nerdy than he is, so that they don't show him up for a pansy. If he does happen to have a physically strong and tough friend, he's got to be dumb enough to be useless, or comic relief. 

Those kind of characters remind me of why I like Indiana Jones so much.

2. The "fat people are stupid" convention. It's not ubiquitous anymore, but it still pops up often enough. Obese bullies, idiot security guards, idiot dads... The bigger their gut, the dumber they are.


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## ShinHakkaider (Aug 25, 2006)

Geoff Watson said:
			
		

> Only "White Men" can be villians.
> 
> Anyone else being a villian gets calls of racism or sexism, but white men are fair game.
> 
> Geoff.




Really? Havent heard of this one. Examples of non-white / male villains and the out cry that ensued please.

And considering that most of the heroes of our time are white males, I dont really see what the problem is.


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## ShinHakkaider (Aug 25, 2006)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Done badly, there are any number of stereotypes that I find annoying. They can, _all _ of them, also be done well and in an entertaining manner. It all depends on the subject matter, the personalities and charisma involved, as well as a hundred other subtle little things.




QFT.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Aug 25, 2006)

Law officers and military people made out of be cruel, evil, silly or all three. None that I've met are any of those.

Southerners. For pity's sake, the best southerner recently was Larry the Cable Guy in _Healthy Inspector_. Other Southerners (always a target for Hollywood's scorn and wrath) are made out to be violent, sadistic, degenerate, wicked, racist, religious fantatics or all of the above. Terrorists usually get a better deal in movies and TV shows than do Southerners.


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## Huw (Aug 25, 2006)

ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> Really? Havent heard of this one. Examples of non-white / male villains and the out cry that ensued please.




Fu-Manchu.
Villains in Tarzan.
Japanese businessmen in anything.

Most examples are from the first half of the 20th century. _Rising Sun_ was the most recent I remember getting negative feedback for having non-white villains. The complaint is that since the 80's the trend has been to show white villains to avoid the prejudices of the earlier decades.


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## Filby (Aug 25, 2006)

Huw said:
			
		

> Fu-Manchu.
> Villains in Tarzan.
> Japanese businessmen in anything.
> 
> Most examples are from the first half of the 20th century. _Rising Sun_ was the most recent I remember getting negative feedback for having non-white villains. The complaint is that since the 80's the trend has been to show white villains to avoid the prejudices of the earlier decades.




Not to mention the "big, scary black thug," though that doesn't seem to be as common today either.


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## Klaus (Aug 25, 2006)

Reading this thread made like Fireply/Serenity all that much more.

Gorram stereotypes and cliches...


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## ShinHakkaider (Aug 25, 2006)

Huw said:
			
		

> Fu-Manchu.
> Villains in Tarzan.
> Japanese businessmen in anything.
> 
> Most examples are from the first half of the 20th century. _Rising Sun_ was the most recent I remember getting negative feedback for having non-white villains. The complaint is that since the 80's the trend has been to show white villains to avoid the prejudices of the earlier decades.




As I remember it the outcry wasnt about having non-white villains, but more about how sterotypically the Japanese antagonists were portrayed. Which from my point of view are two different things entirely. In defense of the filmakers the antagonists in the book werent to fleshed out either and the MAIN outcry I remember had to do with casting Wesley Snipes as the main character when in the book the main character was supposedly white. I say supposedly because it's been a few years, but I dont remember the character's ethnicity being mentioned in the book at all. But most people assume that white is the default so I can see how that mistake can be made.

Also I dont really understand that last sentence. I would possibly agree if there werent already an abundance of white villains out there, but I'd make the argument that there have always been an abundance of white bad guys and the non-white bad guys have ALWAYS been inn shorter supply. 

Still doesnt address the point that since most of the heroes are white it makes sense that most of the villians are white as well...


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## ShinHakkaider (Aug 25, 2006)

Filby said:
			
		

> Not to mention the "big, scary black thug," though that doesn't seem to be as common today either.




Yeah, but I think we've had decades of "big, black scary thug" enough so that when you see a big WHITE scary thug it's a bit of a relief.

At least to me, being a black d00d and all...


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## Huw (Aug 25, 2006)

ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> Also I dont really understand that last sentence. I would possibly agree if there werent already an abundance of white villains out there, but I'd make the argument that there have always been an abundance of white bad guys and the non-white bad guys have ALWAYS been inn shorter supply.




It's about audience perception. You've perceived the real situation, but if most people see a villain who is not a white male they'll read something into it which isn't there (case in point: why is the operative in _Serenity_ black?) To avoid confusing the average movie viewer, film makers just take the lazy route and cast white males, which is the stereotype we're complaining about.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 25, 2006)

ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> Yeah, but I think we've had decades of "big, black scary thug" enough so that when you see a big WHITE scary thug it's a bit of a relief.



Nah, it has to be totally opposite: A tiny white adorable thug.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 25, 2006)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Southerners. For pity's sake, the best southerner recently was Larry the Cable Guy in _Healthy Inspector_. Other Southerners (always a target for Hollywood's scorn and wrath) are made out to be violent, sadistic, degenerate, wicked, racist, religious fantatics or all of the above. Terrorists usually get a better deal in movies and TV shows than do Southerners.



They can't be that bad. We had CBS's _Dallas_ and WB's short-lived _Savannah._


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## ShinHakkaider (Aug 25, 2006)

Huw said:
			
		

> Fu-Manchu.
> Villains in Tarzan.
> Japanese businessmen in anything.
> 
> Most examples are from the first half of the 20th century. _Rising Sun_ was the most recent I remember getting negative feedback for having non-white villains. The complaint is that since the 80's the trend has been to show white villains to avoid the prejudices of the earlier decades.




Black Villians

Sahara

Four Brothers 

Serenity 

That's 3 from just last year alone. I'm fairly certain that there's more...

It's one of my favorite movies, but every black face in this movie is portrayed as a degenerate and somehow even the totally BENT cops still come out looking like roses in comparison LA Confidential (1997)

Sherry Palmer  from the 1st Season of 24 (2001). SHe wasnt the main villain but there's no way that she was one of the good guys/gals...


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## ShinHakkaider (Aug 25, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> They can't be that bad. We had CBS's _Dallas_ and WB's short-lived _Savannah._




And youre forgetting Blue Collar TV
I'll Fly Away 
Any Day Now 

and how can we forget...

The Dukes of Hazzard.


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## Iku Rex (Aug 25, 2006)

*A couple of mine*

* The scrappy Victim who, after knocking down and dazing the Bad Guy, runs away. Sometimes the Victim even drops a provenly effective weapon before running. Just _once_ I'd like to see the damsel in distress go "GOTCHA!" and start stomping on the bad guy's head while he's down.

* The Unlikely Genius who displays his brilliance by beating a smart, well educated chess player at chess with a surprise checkmate. (The looser usually spends the next minute confirming that, no, there's no escape.) Sorry, but above a basic level of competence chess players don't fall for something like that.


----------



## Huw (Aug 25, 2006)

ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> Sherry Palmer  from the 1st Season of 24 (2001). SHe wasnt the main villain but there's no way that she was one of the good guys/gals...




I was trying to think of a black female main villain, and all I could come up with was Dame Vaako from _Chronicles of Riddick_. Hers and Mrs Palmer's goals were very similar.

Anyway, I think Kim Bauer saturated 24's stereotype threshold all by herself


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## Dark Jezter (Aug 25, 2006)

ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> Really? Havent heard of this one. Examples of non-white / male villains and the out cry that ensued please.
> 
> And considering that most of the heroes of our time are white males, I dont really see what the problem is.



 In the late-1990s, a movie called *The Siege* was released.  It was about middle-eastern terrorists attacking New York City.  It was _heavily_ critisized because the producers chose to use arab villians.  Even Roger Ebert compared the movie to anti-semite propoganda pieces from the early 20th century (despite the fact that one of the protagonists was a muslim of middle-eastern descent).

Of course, maybe the critics were right: arab terrorists attacking NYC is something that would never, ever happen. 



			
				KenM said:
			
		

> Thats not streotyping, thats real life. Jocks are useless.




KenM, we all know that you were picked on by jocks and never got over it.  You don't need to remind us every time jocks or sports are mentioned.


----------



## Klaus (Aug 26, 2006)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> In the late-1990s, a movie called *The Siege* was released.  It was about middle-eastern terrorists attacking New York City.  It was _heavily_ critisized because the producers chose to use arab villians.  Even Roger Ebert compared the movie to anti-semite propoganda pieces from the early 20th century (despite the fact that one of the protagonists was a muslim of middle-eastern descent).
> 
> Of course, maybe the critics were right: arab terrorists attacking NYC is something that would never, ever happen.
> 
> ...



 Those critics seemed to forget that one of the very heroes of the movie was an arab (portrayed by Tony Shalloub), and the movie was very much siding against the US Army's inhumane treatment of Arab-descendants.


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## ShinHakkaider (Aug 26, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Those critics seemed to forget that one of the very heroes of the movie was an arab (portrayed by Tony Shalloub), and the movie was very much siding against the US Army's inhumane treatment of Arab-descendants.




Beat me to it. 

I remember the same sort of thing being thrown at TRUE LIES now that DJ brings up THE SEIGE. And the same thing, everyone forgets that one of Harry Traskers team was an American Arab as well.


----------



## ShinHakkaider (Aug 26, 2006)

Huw said:
			
		

> Anyway, I think Kim Bauer saturated 24's stereotype threshold all by herself




Yeah, pretty much.


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## Villano (Aug 26, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Those critics seemed to forget that one of the very heroes of the movie was an arab (portrayed by Tony Shalloub), and the movie was very much siding against the US Army's inhumane treatment of Arab-descendants.




And Disney's Aladdin, in which the villain was criticized for being an Arab even though *everyone else* in the film was, too.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 26, 2006)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Of course, maybe the critics were right: arab terrorists attacking NYC is something that would never, ever happen.



But Dutch terrorists might.


----------



## Starman (Aug 26, 2006)

Villano said:
			
		

> And Disney's Aladdin, in which the villain was criticized for being an Arab even though *everyone else* in the film was, too.




Well, to be fair, Jafar was a lot more Arab than Aladdin. Would anyone have recognized Aladdin as an Arab if he was in something else? Probably not.


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## Huw (Aug 26, 2006)

Villano said:
			
		

> And Disney's Aladdin, in which the villain was criticized for being an Arab even though *everyone else* in the film was, too.




Well, if you read the original, it's set in China, the magician is African (and has a brother), the princess's real name is Badr-al-Budur, and Jafar is from a completely different story (though he is an Arab).


----------



## Villano (Aug 26, 2006)

Starman said:
			
		

> Well, to be fair, Jafar was a lot more Arab than Aladdin. Would anyone have recognized Aladdin as an Arab if he was in something else? Probably not.




How would you recognize any cartoony character as an ethnic group?  Unless you use some sort of visual shorthand like "red hair equals Irish", it's pretty impossible.  True, he could pass as being Indian or, perhaps, Latino, but so could Jafar.  

Does Pocahontas look Native American or Filipino?*  And why do so many people think Lex Luthor was black?  

If you show someone a picture of Aladdin or any of the other characters, most people, even those who've never seen the film, would probably describe them as Arabs (or, perhaps, Indian) due to their clothing.

All of that is irrelevant anyway, since my point was that people complained that Disney was racist because they made the villain an Arab while overlooking the fact that everyone, from hero to co-stars to background characters, were Arabs too.  All this goes back to the original point that people will complain if a villain is anything other than white.  Even if everyone in a film is of one ethnic group, people will complain if anyone evil belongs to that group.




			
				Huw said:
			
		

> Well, if you read the original, it's set in China, the magician is African (and has a brother), the princess's real name is Badr-al-Budur, and Jafar is from a completely different story (though he is an Arab).




True, but if Disney did the film version like that, people wouldn't complain that the villain was an Arab, but was black.  Plus, from what I've heard, in the original, the guy who cheats Aladdin out of the lamp was Jewish, which would lead to more controversy (but, to be fair, the inclusion of a villianous Jew was probably intentionally Anti-Semitic to begin with).


*EDIT:  To add to the silliness of cartoon ethnicity, according to Wikipedia, there were complaints that Pocahontas didn't look Native American at all...but looked black!


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## Huw (Aug 26, 2006)

Villano said:
			
		

> True, but if Disney did the film version like that, people wouldn't complain that the villain was an Arab, but was black.




He is in several illustrated versions.



			
				Villano said:
			
		

> Plus, from what I've heard, in the original, the guy who cheats Aladdin out of the lamp was Jewish, which would lead to more controversy (but, to be fair, the inclusion of a villianous Jew was probably intentionally Anti-Semitic to begin with).




One of Aladdin's early wishes, before he realises the full power of what he has, is for food. The djinni brings him food on silver plates. Aladdin then goes out to sell them, and meets a Jewish trader, who pays him a fraction of their true worth (but still more money than Aladdin has ever seen before). The Jew is never aware of the lamp, it's the magician who pulls off the "new lamps for old trick".


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## ssampier (Aug 26, 2006)

I must say I understand the issue of racism in our media. I think it, largely, depends on the intent. Is the dark or ethnically different antagonist _only_ a villian because he is darker or different than anybody else? A difficult question to answer.




			
				Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> In the late-1990s, a movie called *The Siege* was released.  It was about middle-eastern terrorists attacking New York City.  It was _heavily_ critisized because the producers chose to use arab villians.  Even Roger Ebert compared the movie to anti-semite propoganda pieces from the early 20th century (despite the fact that one of the protagonists was a muslim of middle-eastern descent).
> 
> Of course, maybe the critics were right: arab terrorists attacking NYC is something that would never, ever happen.




Great movie, by the way. Which also ignores the fact the protagonist is an African-American (Denzel Washington). I think the movie comes off as balanced. I wish we could have more movies like this.


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## HeavenShallBurn (Aug 26, 2006)

Mainly I pointed fingers at anime earlier mostly because what of it I've seen has a big concentrated dose of stereotypes I've already seen enough of.  Now the big one itself and it can be summed up in two little words

BASIC MARKSMANSHIP

Why is it that in every movie, tv show, cartoon, etc. that aside from the climatic moment when plot requires good aim no one can hit the broad side of a barn.  Why is it that supposedly dangerous and well trained enemies can't hit a man sized target standing in clear lines of fire fifteen meters away?  Anyone who can't hit a moving helmet sized target at fifty meters would never have even passed basic rifle marksmanship at basic.  Even twice that is an insignificant distance for a man-sized target for anyone trained.  Yet regardless of who is shooting in the movies they can't hit large targets right in front of them, WHY?


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## Elemental (Aug 27, 2006)

When a man hits a woman, it's to indicate he's an evil bastard. If a woman hits a man, it's presented either as perfectly justified, or comedic. (If you've seen the trailer for _My Super Ex-Girlfriend_, imagine that it's a male superhero harassing and threatening his girlfriend when she breaks up with him. Is it still funny?)

Ass-kicking female characters....who inexplicably become ineffectual when the plot calls on them to be killed (to create angst for the male hero) or captured (so the male hero can rescue her). Bonus points if she falls into bed with the hero for no real reason halfway through.

In comics, the refusal to kill the villain because That Would Make Us Just As Bad As Him. Of course, said villain will inevitably escape from prison in the next big crossover event, and kill a few dozen unnamed characters--has any reasonably popular comic book villain ever gone to prison and actually served the full term before escaping? In anything like the real world, someone like the Joker would have recieved the death penalty a long time ago, even if it required the whole state to change their laws. Either that, or he'd have had a 'tragic accident' at the police station.

Generating drama by killing off minor characters to generate angst for the heroes and reinforce that this situation is serious. It's cheap, and it _does not work_ any more, we all know the important characters are going to be fine. It's especially annoying in comics, where the minor characters that get killed are often ones who are interesting and well-developed, because the writers don't have to keep them as static as the big names.


----------



## Villano (Aug 27, 2006)

Elemental said:
			
		

> In comics, the refusal to kill the villain because That Would Make Us Just As Bad As Him. Of course, said villain will inevitably escape from prison in the next big crossover event, and kill a few dozen unnamed characters--has any reasonably popular comic book villain ever gone to prison and actually served the full term before escaping? In anything like the real world, someone like the Joker would have recieved the death penalty a long time ago, even if it required the whole state to change their laws. Either that, or he'd have had a 'tragic accident' at the police station.




Why would someone escape from prison after serving their full term?  They're not in prison anymore.   

I kind of agree with this to a certain extent.   However, the Joker has already been ruled criminally insane, so you can't execute him (and I doubt whatever state Gotham is in has the death penalty or else the sane guys like Penguin would be on deathrow).  Batman and the average cop wouldn't kill him since they aren't cold-blooded murderers, however, I do wonder why no crime boss has ever put out a hit on him.  He must attract way too much attention from the cops.  True, the typical hitman may not be able to take him out, but why not hire Deathstroke or some other superhuman?




> Generating drama by killing off minor characters to generate angst for the heroes and reinforce that this situation is serious. It's cheap, and it _does not work_ any more, we all know the important characters are going to be fine. It's especially annoying in comics, where the minor characters that get killed are often ones who are interesting and well-developed, because the writers don't have to keep them as static as the big names.




I *hate* this!  I remember seeing a description of big company crossovers which said that the end result is to kill off a bunch of third-tier characters and launch a half dozen new titles, of which only one lasts.

DC killed off a bunch of characters I'd actually like to read (good-bye Flash), but Aquaman, who's _never_ been interesting is still chugging along.


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Aug 27, 2006)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> BASIC MARKSMANSHIP
> 
> Why is it that in every movie, tv show, cartoon, etc. that aside from the climatic moment when plot requires good aim no one can hit the broad side of a barn.  Why is it that supposedly dangerous and well trained enemies can't hit a man sized target standing in clear lines of fire fifteen meters away?  Anyone who can't hit a moving helmet sized target at fifty meters would never have even passed basic rifle marksmanship at basic.  Even twice that is an insignificant distance for a man-sized target for anyone trained.  Yet regardless of who is shooting in the movies they can't hit large targets right in front of them, WHY?



Why should this surprise anyone? They never *aim*! Yeah, I hate this too.


----------



## Ranger REG (Aug 27, 2006)

Elemental said:
			
		

> When a man hits a woman, it's to indicate he's an evil bastard.



I blame Dr. Phil and Oprah. Women want equality yet chivalry must be respected. What a double standard.


----------



## Victim (Aug 27, 2006)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> Mainly I pointed fingers at anime earlier mostly because what of it I've seen has a big concentrated dose of stereotypes I've already seen enough of.  Now the big one itself and it can be summed up in two little words
> 
> BASIC MARKSMANSHIP
> 
> Why is it that in every movie, tv show, cartoon, etc. that aside from the climatic moment when plot requires good aim no one can hit the broad side of a barn.  Why is it that supposedly dangerous and well trained enemies can't hit a man sized target standing in clear lines of fire fifteen meters away?  Anyone who can't hit a moving helmet sized target at fifty meters would never have even passed basic rifle marksmanship at basic.  Even twice that is an insignificant distance for a man-sized target for anyone trained.  Yet regardless of who is shooting in the movies they can't hit large targets right in front of them, WHY?




Real life is why.  Amazingly, people don't shoot as well in actual combat as they do on the firing range.



> Hit Potential In Gun Fights
> 
> The police officer's potential for hitting his adversary during armed
> confrontation has increased over the years and stands at slightly over 25% of
> ...




Combat Shooting


----------



## HeavenShallBurn (Aug 27, 2006)

I understand quite well the difference between the two as I've experienced both, my problem is the extent that they wildly exxagerate the problem for the circumstances involved in many movies.  Also never use police as an example of combat shooting.  For one they never engage in real combat.  There is a vast difference between drawing down on an untrained gang-banger because he's armed and an actual firefight where the circumstances are not even close to the same.  In order to get an idea regarding actual combat shooting look for figures from the military.  I can't even begin to number the times I've seen movies or tv shows in which multiple parties standing in full view of each other with sub-guns or long arms less than twenty meters away empty entire magazines without effect.  At that distance a few misses can be expected simply from excitement and pushing too hard, but not emptying entire magazines by the fifth round they should be on target or they weren't trained properly and don't have the disposition for it.  Any member of a military unit that incompetent has no place in combat they are going to get their squadmembers killed.


----------



## Numion (Aug 27, 2006)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> Why should this surprise anyone? They never *aim*! Yeah, I hate this too.





In real combat the number of rounds required per one enemy casualty is pretty high. I guess it's mostly due to the use of automatic weapons in covering fire, but still, it's not as easy as it seems.

It is easy to hit a 50 cm target at 150 metres (450 feet) with an assault rifle (say, AK-47). But when that target moves and shoots back, I guess it would be more difficult. 

Having said all that, I also think that most of the time people can't shoot for crap in TV or movies.


----------



## Dark Jezter (Aug 28, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> I blame Dr. Phil and Oprah. Women want equality yet chivalry must be respected. What a double standard.



 Indeed.  A lot of women want to be treated exactly the same as men, yet they also want men to open their doors for them, pull out their chairs, and defend their honor.  They can't seem to comprehend that those two concepts are mutually exclusive.


----------



## Ranger REG (Aug 28, 2006)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Indeed.  A lot of women want to be treated exactly the same as men, yet they also want men to open their doors for them, pull out their chairs, and defend their honor.  They can't seem to comprehend that those two concepts are mutually exclusive.



Not really. We men also want Chivalry returned. Open our doors, pull up our chairs, defend my honor, ladies!

Also, vanquish Dutch terrorists!


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## Ranger REG (Aug 28, 2006)

Numion said:
			
		

> Having said all that, I also think that most of the time people can't shoot for crap in TV or movies.



Well, duh. Because they're actors. They use snipers off-screen/off-camera.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 28, 2006)

Watching _The Transporter_ yesterday, I noticed another stereoptype: That of the employer trying to screw over/kill the protagonist contractor, usually after the protaganoist has proven his trustworthyness and competence.

In stories where this is the main plot of the story, it's fine (otherwise, it would be like complaining that a murder mistery always contains someone killing the victim  ), but in some instances, it is just annoying or overdone, especially if there was no real reason given for the employer to do so. 

This is especially a plot overdone in Shadowrun novels and adventures, as it seems. RPG-proverb (using BSG-TNS-"speak") for Shaodwrun: "It isn't Shadowrun if Mr. Johnson doesn't frack the runners twice"-


----------



## werk (Aug 28, 2006)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Indeed.  A lot of women want to be treated exactly the same as men, yet they also want men to open their doors for them, pull out their chairs, and defend their honor.  They can't seem to comprehend that those two concepts are mutually exclusive.




Without wandering too far into politics...or making sweeping didactic generalizations...I think women should be treated with the same respect given to men.  Very few wish to be treated AS men.

Treat them as women, repect them as equals.  

Just because you open the door for someone doesn't mean their opinion is worth less or you are allowed to objectify them.  If anything, acts of chivalry insinuate the opposite.

I hold doors for men all the time, does that make them women?  or am I gay?  So hard to keep all the rules strait...

(laughing at myself)

Also, this just in...KenM hates jocks.


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## Dark Jezter (Aug 28, 2006)

werk said:
			
		

> Without wandering too far into politics...or making sweeping didactic generalizations...I think women should be treated with the same respect given to men.  Very few wish to be treated AS men.
> 
> Treat them as women, repect them as equals.
> 
> ...




Heck, I hold open doors for guys also, it's just a polite thing to do.  In my post, I was talking about always opening the door for a lady - be it a car door, office door, etc.

The point of my post is this: women can be treated like "just one of the guys" or they can be treated "like a lady", but not both.

If you want to be treated like "just one of guys", be prepared to hear dirty jokes, get teased about your shortcomings, smell flatulence, and discuss topics such as beer, football, trucks, fishing, and which Hollywood actresses have the best T&A.

If you want to be treated "like a lady", then men will pull out your chair for you, avoid crude/vulgar talk when you're around, smile and nod politely while you talk about things like clothes and relationships, etc.  But, by definition, being treated like a lady means that you'll be treated differently than a man (this does not necessarily mean that you'll be treated as an inferior - just different).


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## Chaldfont (Aug 28, 2006)

My wife pointed this one out to me: The Disney Stereotype of having one or both parents killed off in their movies.

What could be more disturbing to a little kid than learning the mortality of their parents? Especially in an otherwise cute movie!


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## Ranger REG (Aug 28, 2006)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> Watching _The Transporter_ yesterday,...



Yet another example of the "Jean-Claude Van Damme" stereotype I mentioned earlier.


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## sniffles (Aug 28, 2006)

The 'average guy, hot wife' stereotype. This is especailly rampant in sitcoms, but I've seen it in movies too. The guy always looks fairly average, not unattractive, but not anywhere near People magazine's Top 10 list. Yet his wife or girlfriend is always far more attractive than he is. You never see the reverse situation, though.

Movie/tv siblings who don't look anything alike. I realize the actors aren't related so they can't look as much alike as real siblings do, and sometimes real siblings don't look alike. But the casting directors could at least try to find some actors with some resemblance to each other. 

Teenagers played by college grads. Yeah, I know there are rules about childrens' working hours that limit the availability of real teenagers. But I am so tired of seeing somebody presented as a high school kid who looks like they are getting ready to celebrate their 30th birthday.

And my Number One most hated stereotype in films/television: 
Casting actors based on who's popular (or good-looking) instead of who's best for the part!!


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## Huw (Aug 28, 2006)

Chaldfont said:
			
		

> My wife pointed this one out to me: The Disney Stereotype of having one or both parents killed off in their movies.




Much as I love to blame Disney for butchering stories, orphans have always been a staple of fiction. The Grimms in particular liked to replace the mother with the wicked stepmother stereotype, because they believed in family values, and didn't like the fact that the original stories frequently had the kids' biological mothers as the villains.

For the record, the original wicked stepmother is Cinderella's (the "fairy godmother" is the ghost of her real mother). Snow White, Hansel and Gretel have to cope with their own mothers trying to kill them.


----------



## Ranger REG (Aug 28, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> The 'average guy, hot wife' stereotype. This is especailly rampant in sitcoms, but I've seen it in movies too. The guy always looks fairly average, not unattractive, but not anywhere People magazine's Top 10 list. Yet his wife or girlfriend is always far more attractive than he is. *You never see the reverse situation, though.*



Because that would appeal to the barely-homely _Oprah_ audience.


----------



## Darth Shoju (Aug 29, 2006)

Count me as another person who dislikes the "moron dad, infallible mom" syndrome. _Home Improvement_ was the worst for this IMO. Also the kids being much wiser than their parents and teaching them how to think. Also kids who act like horrible little wretches and never see an iota of punishment (although I fear this may be more true-to-life than I like to admit). Feh. One show that handles this stuff well is _The War at Home_. The family in that show really plays against these stereotypes and it comes across realy well.

I also detest:

-The "misunderstanding that causes conflict" in romantic comedies. My wife drags me to these and they always feature this in the middle of the flick. I understand they need to create the _illusion_ that they might not get together (after all, we all know they _will _indeed get together), but please please find a way to do it without insulting our intelligence. 

-Action stars in gunfights hiding behind flimsy wooden desks or doors. Now, I'm no ballistics expert, but I figure this might work for smaller-calliber weapons. But considering some of the ordinance that these items from page 9 of the Ikea catilogue are stopping you'd think they were made of titanium.

-Along with the kids outsmarting the villains is kids who can literally beat-up grown adults (some of which are experienced combatants). Those freakin' _Three Ninjas_ movies are really bad for this. I don't care how much martial-arts experience that 8-year-old has, I'm pretty sure even I (an out-of-shape geek) could absorb their best kick and then wring their little necks (as per that episode of Seinfeld...not that they actually do that but that is what Jerry points out to Kramer). 

-Villains employing Weapons of Mass Destruction that have some increadably long count-down sequence and who keep the heroes alive to see it used (obviously giving them time to thwart its deployment). See the _Simpsons _(Hank Scorpio) or _The Watchmen_ for the antithesis of this nonsense.

-TV/movie cops that seem to have all the time in the world to drive around and be cool or wacky, but never seem to have to do paperwork.

-Why is it in movies targeted at youth, drinking always has some horrible consequence, yet when it is an adult movie it seems to be the only path to some sort of partying nirvana?

-Characters who have crappy jobs that have nice houses (like Al Bundy...although in that case it was actually funny).

-Boxing movies where the fighters abandon defense and punch each other in the head, full-force, for the whole fight (mostly the _Rocky _movies here). 

-Ben Stiller. He's talented IMO (see _Permanent Midnight_) but he's become a stereotype of himself. Will Ferrell is in danger of hitting this realm as well. Owen Wilson is allready there keeping Ben company. Steve Carrell has done a decent job of avoiding this thus far.

-Jocks who are date-rapists, nerds who are sensitive and are really "unique, wonderful, special little snowflakes" and the beautiful girls who can't see the difference until the end of the movie. Yes, in some ways this is an important message and can be done well (_Mean Girls_), but it has also been done to death. Most people I know are a mixture of jock and nerd and pretty much any hobby can and will be considered lame or nerdy by someone who doesn't like it for whatever reason.

heh. That's all I've got for now.

OOOh wait...angst. I dislike never-ending angst. Teen or otherwise.


----------



## Darth Shoju (Aug 29, 2006)

And weighing in on the white protagonist/antagonist angle: I just saw _Snakes on a Plane_ last night and it featured an African-American protagonist (Sam Jackson motha-f***!) and a Chinese (or perhaps Korean...I believe his last name was Kim) antagonist. Also _Daredevil _ had an African-American villain as well (counter to the comics).

Not sure if this proves anything. Just saying is all.


----------



## Dark Jezter (Aug 29, 2006)

Darth Shoju said:
			
		

> Count me as another person who dislikes the "moron dad, infallible mom" syndrome. Home Improvement was the worst for this IMO.




I'd argue that Jill Taylor from Home Improvement is not portrayed as infallable.  Although she's definately more interested in academic persuits than Tim is, throughout the series she shows that she can be sometimes be pedantic, insecure, smug, arrogant, petty, and hostile towards women who are more attractive than she is.

Oh, and she's also a horrible cook (which was one of the show's many recurring jokes).


----------



## Iku Rex (Aug 29, 2006)

Darth Shoju said:
			
		

> C-Action stars in gunfights hiding behind flimsy wooden desks or doors. Now, I'm no ballistics expert, but I figure this might work for smaller-calliber weapons. But considering some of the ordinance that these items from page 9 of the Ikea catilogue are stopping you'd think they were made of titanium.



Good one.


			
				Darth Shoju said:
			
		

> -Boxing movies where the fighters abandon defense and punch each other in the head, full-force, for the whole fight (mostly the _Rocky _movies here).



I don't watch boxing, and I don't know about "the whole fight", but fighters do sometimes abandon defense for full offense. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjOLblfUaRw (Frye vs. Takayama in Pride FC, mixed martial arts.)


----------



## Frostmarrow (Aug 29, 2006)

I hate when God* kills off the bad guy. In the end the villain deserves to die but is given mercy by the protagonist yet is horribly killed by some freak accident. Plummets on to the spokes of a wheel, is electrocuted, or beheaded by heavy machinery. (* God in a Deus ex Machina-way.)

I also hate when producers give the audience what they want at the expense of sub-context. For sure I like the idea of Van Helsing killing off all the major horror monsters in one flick but please; show me something I didn't know I'd like too. By this I mean I love a bank robbery gone wrong but I didn't know I'd like to hear of where Madonna's _Like a Virgin_ came from. Or that meddling with nature can be unhealthy, for a simpler example.

I also hate when a stereotypical character turns out to have a hidden skill completely opposite to what has been shown, at professional level. Can't think of an example right now but you know the idea of the e.g. female hacker who just happens to be a black belt in the final scene. (Weird thing to complain about in an anti-stereotype thread, I know.)


----------



## trilobite (Aug 29, 2006)

I hate the sterotypical sterotype hater.


----------



## Ranger REG (Aug 30, 2006)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Oh, and she's also a horrible cook (which was one of the show's many recurring jokes).



Hey, truth is stranger than fiction. It's hard to find a girlfriend who can cook better than me.


----------



## Nuclear Platypus (Aug 30, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> I blame Dr. Phil and Oprah. Women want equality yet chivalry must be respected. What a double standard.




Somewhere I remember reading the actual reason behind women going before men was back before color was invented. If someone was hiding in the shadows ready to kill the man, the woman would take the hit but leave 'emself wide open for a counter like say in the narrow corridors of a castle. 

As for marksmenship, yes, I do think its pitiful. Heck, I got a handgun license when my vision wasn't completely back after eye surgery. I just aimed for the big blurry thing. 

Oh, I do hate the stereotype that Texans (or Southerners in general) are a buncha gun toting cowboys that talk slower than a nudist climbing a barbed wire fence aka the drawl. 

Also about Aladdin, the Arab Americans were offended at the lyrics of a song and demanded it was changed. Something about having one's nose cut off or whathaveyou. Gee, this coming from the culture that brought us the Code of Hammurabi and the thieving hands cut off still is practiced (afaik)? Similarly, the original Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers were criticized for being -racist-! Of course it had to do with the ethnicities of the Black and Yellow Rangers. 

The idea of Star Trekkian races would all look so similar to us not to mention be compatible enough to allow reproduction - half Klingons, half Bajorans, half Vulcans, half wits, etc.

Admittedly it has to do with having a 'happy ending' but having some alien race invade our planet and after getting our butts handed to us, we manage to defeat them despite having inferior technology like an Apple computer.   

Various racial stereotypes like Asians all know martial arts, blacks and / or the popular kids will the be the first to die in a horror flick but the 'leftovers' will invariably defeat the monster (probably because they play D&D or some other RPG).

Those who play D&D (or other rpgs) are some sort of social misfit while painting one's body in a favorite sports team's colors isn't?

The idea that big explosions / great special effects will compensate for a craptacular plot. 

Standard Hollywood physics like anyone standing by a window in a gunfight will be flung thru said window with extraordinary force, etc.

The stereotype that someone who excels in another field can crossover into acting, singing, whatever. Halle Berry, Mariah Carey, J-Lo, etc.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 30, 2006)

Nuclear Platypus said:
			
		

> Somewhere I remember reading the actual reason behind women going before men was back before color was invented. If someone was hiding in the shadows ready to kill the man, the woman would take the hit but leave 'emself wide open for a counter like say in the narrow corridors of a castle.



Well, I can understand if we're trying to escape a besieging castle, or in moden-day analogy, there is a drive-by/sniper shooting. Then yeah, women and children first.

If you're trying to get to a lifeboat to escape a sinking ship, then either get on it, or if you don't know if it will float, drop a fat woman or child as a test. If the lifeboat is safe, jump aboard and roll the woman over to divert the sharks.

P.S. I am sooo going to remain single after this.  :\


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 30, 2006)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Heck, I hold open doors for guys also, it's just a polite thing to do.  In my post, I was talking about always opening the door for a lady - be it a car door, office door, etc.
> 
> The point of my post is this: women can be treated like "just one of the guys" or they can be treated "like a lady", but not both.
> 
> ...



Well, I think many (not all) of your points are examples of appropriate/decent behaviour or general courtesy. 

But that said, I don't care much about this ambiguity on how women want to be treated - I would pull out chairs or open doors and these things for guys, too, if I was into guys (and it might work on them).


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## sniffles (Aug 30, 2006)

The 'my ex's new Significant Other is a jerk' stereotype. Especially if the ex had an affair with the SO prior to breaking up. I was watching *Secret Window* the other night and was really bored with how Johnny Depp's ex-wife's new boyfriend/husband was portrayed as an a**hole. 

And speaking of that movie, the 'psycho killer who can act normal when he wants to' stereotype is annoying too. You can't just turn mental illness off with a switch.

The 'brilliant serial killer' stereotype. Serial killers in movies are always incredibly intelligent and/or crafty. They always have to have some bizarre theme for their killings, like the 7 deadly sins in *7even*, or Buffalo Bill wanting to make himself a woman suit in *The Silence of the Lambs*. Apparently they're all independently wealthy, too, because they can afford all kinds of amazing gadgets or live in a mansion with a huge basement where they can live out their bizarre fantasies.


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## Rystil Arden (Aug 30, 2006)

> or Buffalo Bill wanting to make himself a woman suit in The Silence of the Lambs




Neither Harris nor Hollywood actually made that one up.


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## drothgery (Aug 30, 2006)

Nuclear Platypus said:
			
		

> The idea of Star Trekkian races would all look so similar to us not to mention be compatible enough to allow reproduction - half Klingons, half Bajorans, half Vulcans, half wits, etc.




That's okay; there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that in Trek myth (most Trek humanoids are decended from the 'Preservers'). The problem is that they miss some of the implications, and so have races that are close enough to interbreed (humans, Klingons, Vulcans) having radically different physiology (green-blooded Vulcans/Romulans and redundant-internal-organ Klingons). And then they threw a monkey wrench in things by saying in DS9 that Trill/Klingon isn't likely to work when they'd already had Trill/human work.


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## Brimshack (Aug 30, 2006)

"White Indians" You know the anglo that serves as the center of a story that is billed as being about Native Americans. And the story ends up being about his redemption when accepted by these simple and noble folk (who presumably know genuine nobility when they see it ...hence making them the perfect test of a man's soul.)

Cases in Point:

A Man Called Horse (and the sequal).
Dances with Wolves.
Wind Talkers (Billed as a story about the Code Talkers; really a story about someone who might have to kill one of them. ...great!)
,,,heh, The Last Samurai if you think about it. Only Tom Cruise couldn't entirely duplicate Dances with Wolves, so they just took the standard plot them on a trip to Japan.



I would exempt Little Big Man from the list, maybe because I am biased liking the movie so much. But part of the charm of that movie seems to me that the main character never does really prove himself. He generally screws everything up, and even though there are some who accept him, he never really does come accross as being fully assimilated.


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## Dark Jezter (Aug 31, 2006)

How about "Typical Romantic Comedy Plot"?  It goes like this:

"Guy and girl meet and become friends.  Guy starts to fall in love with girl, but she's already got a boyfriend.  Guy then finds out that girl's boyfriend is a jerk who cheats on her, but guy feels like he can't say anything because it will look like he's trying to break them up for his own benefit.  After much angsting and soul searching, guy publically declares his love to girl, who then dumps her jerk of a boyfriend.  Guy and girl kiss and live happily ever after."

The one that immediately comes to mind is *The Wedding Singer*, but I know that there are more romantic comedies out there that follow this basic formula (with maybe one or two alterations).


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## Ed_Laprade (Aug 31, 2006)

Brimshack said:
			
		

> I would exempt Little Big Man from the list, maybe because I am biased liking the movie so much. But part of the charm of that movie seems to me that the main character never does really prove himself. He generally screws everything up, and even though there are some who accept him, he never really does come accross as being fully assimilated.



Great movie, haven't seen it in years. But he does prove himself. He gets Custer killed by telling him the truth, _knowing_ that he won't be believed.


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## bodhi (Aug 31, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> The 'brilliant serial killer' stereotype. Serial killers in movies are always incredibly intelligent and/or crafty.



I'm okay with this one for two reasons:
1) I like smart characters. I'm tired of stupid ones.
2) Stupid serial killers do stupid things and get caught. On the news the other night, I heard about a kid who got busted for calling 911 22 times in one night, harassing the operator, and insulting the cops. They knocked on his front door the next morning. A serial killer that dumb would not make a challening foil, and would be a limited plot device.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 31, 2006)

bodhi said:
			
		

> I'm okay with this one for two reasons:
> 1) I like smart characters. I'm tired of stupid ones.



Yeah, but even brilliant serial killers turned stupid because they like to brag that they can get away with it, even to the point of offering law authority clues to what he's done or going to do. After all, smart people can't help but to show off that they're smarter than you.


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## Technomancer (Aug 31, 2006)

Nuclear Platypus said:
			
		

> Oh, I do hate the stereotype that Texans (or Southerners in general) are a buncha gun toting cowboys that talk slower than a nudist climbing a barbed wire fence aka the drawl.



"The Good Girl" with Jennifer Aniston is the worst example of this that I've seen.  It was the most ridiculous caricature of "country folks" I have ever seen, and she was particularly bad trying to pull it off.  And it was so well received too.  Grrr



> Various racial stereotypes like Asians all know martial arts,...



I had an Asian friend I used to kid about this constantly, always asking her to show me some karate moves.


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## Brimshack (Aug 31, 2006)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> Great movie, haven't seen it in years. But he does prove himself. He gets Custer killed by telling him the truth, _knowing_ that he won't be believed.




True, but even that doesn't have the cliché, Now-He's-a-Real-Indian quality to it, which is what irritates me so much. And in that sense, his victory is almost counter-productive. When the ex-Contrary (I forget his name) saves his life at the end of the battle, he then goes on to celebrate the fact that he can kill Little Big Man the next time he sees him. I always saw the last scenes as implying that LBM will now haveHis final victory over Custer is what ensures he will not be able to live his life with the Cheyenne after all.  to leave ...which is why he ends his days in an old folks home instead of the reservation. But, yep, getting Custer killed is one thing LBM does do right. I hadn't thought of it.


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## DwelleroftheDeep (Aug 31, 2006)

If the hero and villain are in a fight the villain will not be killed by the hero's normal weapon, invariably it comes down to a crazy last ditch effort.


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## sniffles (Sep 1, 2006)

Rystil Arden said:
			
		

> Neither Harris nor Hollywood actually made that one up.



I know, but I don't think Ed Gein was quite as elaborate about it as Buffalo Bill. But maybe I should have used *The Cell* as a better example of what I'm talking about.


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## Mycanid (Sep 1, 2006)

Nuclear Platypus said:
			
		

> Also about Aladdin, the Arab Americans were offended at the lyrics of a song and demanded it was changed. Something about having one's nose cut off or whathaveyou. Gee, this coming from the culture that brought us the Code of Hammurabi and the thieving hands cut off still is practiced (afaik)?




Actually the line was "Where they cut off your ear if they don't like your face; it's barbaric, but hey! it's home."

I was in SF for the opening night (before altered later on) and remember hearing it very clearly.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 1, 2006)

DwelleroftheDeep said:
			
		

> If the hero and villain are in a fight the villain will not be killed by the hero's normal weapon, invariably it comes down to a crazy last ditch effort.



Like Darth Vader picking up Palpy to save the hero Luke Skywalker, who lost his lightsaber? Way to go, you blonde-haired moron. And this is not cheese?


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## PhoenixDarkDirk (Sep 1, 2006)

Geoff Watson said:
			
		

> Only "White Men" can be villians.
> 
> Anyone else being a villian gets calls of racism or sexism, but white men are fair game.
> 
> Geoff.




This reminds me of a line from "King of the Hill".
"What kind of country is this where you can't hate a man unless he's white?"

Regarding sniffles' point about the look of sibling characters, something I think does it well is "Prison Break". To me, Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell seem like they could be brothers.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 1, 2006)

Nuclear Platypus said:
			
		

> Oh, I do hate the stereotype that Texans (or Southerners in general) are a buncha gun toting cowboys that talk slower than a nudist climbing a barbed wire fence aka the drawl.




Quote for Truth. And I like the phrase "...slower than a nudist climbing a barbed wire fence..."


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## Elemental (Sep 1, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> The 'brilliant serial killer' stereotype. Serial killers in movies are always incredibly intelligent and/or crafty. They always have to have some bizarre theme for their killings, like the 7 deadly sins in *7even*, or Buffalo Bill wanting to make himself a woman suit in *The Silence of the Lambs*. Apparently they're all independently wealthy, too, because they can afford all kinds of amazing gadgets or live in a mansion with a huge basement where they can live out their bizarre fantasies.




In some media, serial killers are also able to teleport short distances. They have precognitive visions that let them wait in _exactly_ the right place to attack the victim and be certain that their killings will be uninterrupted even when they're killing in a crowded house, or there's somebody _in the same frikkin' room_ ("Urban Legend"). They also possess regenerative powers, which are triggered by the proximity of a victim checking out their apparently lifeless body ("Scream 2"). They have incredible athleticism, and can catch up with a fleeing victim while never moving faster than an amble. Lastly, they can sustain damage that would kill a normal person ten times over ("Hollow Man").



			
				Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> The one that immediately comes to mind is *The Wedding Singer*, but I know that there are more romantic comedies out there that follow this basic formula (with maybe one or two alterations).




Romantic comedies are mostly predictable, with some of them having messages that are a bit creepy when you think about them. Stalking people is fine, just so long as you're destined to be together ("Sleepless in Seattle"). Women just need to find a sugar daddy who'll tend to all their needs ("Pretty Woman"). If you can't get the boy you want, you should completely change your personality and values to please him ("Grease").


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## sniffles (Sep 1, 2006)

Another stereotype to complain of:

If all the characters in a movie are non-American, they have to speak with stupid fake accents so that anyone in the audience who's as dumb as the studio execs will remember that they're not Americans. My favorite example is *K-19: The Widowmaker*. All the characters are Russian, so why do they need Russian accents?  :\


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## Ranger REG (Sep 2, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> Another stereotype to complain of:
> 
> If all the characters in a movie are non-American, they have to speak with stupid fake accents so that anyone in the audience who's as dumb as the studio execs will remember that they're not Americans. My favorite example is *K-19: The Widowmaker*. All the characters are Russian, so why do they need Russian accents?  :\



Because they couldn't find decent actors of Russian ethnics?

Kind reminds me of that tall blonde dude on _America's Got Talent_ wearing angel's wing and put on a balancing sword act.  :\


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## bodhi (Sep 2, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> If all the characters in a movie are non-American, they have to speak with stupid fake accents so that anyone in the audience who's as dumb as the studio execs will remember that they're not Americans.



That's why I like subtitles. I forget the title, but there's a WWII movie where the Americans and British speak English, the Germans speak German, the Japanese speak Japanese, and it's all subtitled.


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## HeavenShallBurn (Sep 2, 2006)

Thank you I wish they would make more movies like that.
Tora!Tora!Tora! had all Japanese dialogue in Japanese with subtitles and I thought it really helped cement the feel.
The Longest Day does the same thing with the Germans when it bothers to translate them (it focuses on the Alliesl, the Axis were the enemies after all who cares what they had to say) and it made the feel of the entire movie somehow more solid.
We Were Soldiers has the Vietnamese dialogue in Vietnamese and subtitled.  There were others whose names I can't remember that did the same and I generally liked them.

Probably mentioned before already but the Enormous Conspiracy of which only the protagonist is aware despite the fact very strange things are happening in plain sight of the populace and huge numbers of people are involved.


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## mmu1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Elemental said:
			
		

> In some media, serial killers are also able to teleport short distances. They have precognitive visions that let them wait in _exactly_ the right place to attack the victim and be certain that their killings will be uninterrupted even when they're killing in a crowded house, or there's somebody _in the same frikkin' room_ ("Urban Legend"). They also possess regenerative powers, which are triggered by the proximity of a victim checking out their apparently lifeless body ("Scream 2"). They have incredible athleticism, and can catch up with a fleeing victim while never moving faster than an amble. Lastly, they can sustain damage that would kill a normal person ten times over ("Hollow Man").




Don't forget that, apparently, spending years in a solitary prison cell, skulking around alone in the woods, or spending most of your time in a dank and cluttered basement will transform a serial killer - no matter how physically unassuming - into an expert assassin, able to incapacitate just about anyone.

Those things will also have no detrimental effects whatsoever on the supernatural endurance and vitality you mention.

In addition, all serial killers generate a distortion field that causes most firearms to disappear or become almost entirely inaccurate. However, the field will frequently glitch and fail to restart in time if the killer falls down, apparently dead, only to rise again.


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## Someone (Sep 2, 2006)

The real offender with serial killers is that, to catch a one of them that has killed a lot of people and has a hostage and threatens to kill him in some cruel and elaborate fashion if the Hero Policeman doesn´t do something bizarre, it´s only Hero Policeman -and his companion- who´s working on the case, as if serial killers who take hostages didn´t bother anyone.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 2, 2006)

bodhi said:
			
		

> That's why I like subtitles.



Only old-timers like us (as well as hearing-challenged) don't mind subtitles.


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## Elemental (Sep 2, 2006)

Someone said:
			
		

> The real offender with serial killers is that, to catch a one of them that has killed a lot of people and has a hostage and threatens to kill him in some cruel and elaborate fashion if the Hero Policeman doesn´t do something bizarre, it´s only Hero Policeman -and his companion- who´s working on the case, as if serial killers who take hostages didn´t bother anyone.




Well, it saves time that way. In movies, even if the hero had a huge team backing him up, the police never show up en masse until just _after_ the final confrontation between hero and villain. Most of the time, they'll have followed a red herring and be launching a raid on somewhere irrelevant. One police officer might show up at a critical moment to distract the villain and probably get killed, but that's all.


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## Someone (Sep 2, 2006)

Elemental said:
			
		

> Well, it saves time that way. In movies, even if the hero had a huge team backing him up, the police never show up en masse until just _after_ the final confrontation between hero and villain. Most of the time, they'll have followed a red herring and be launching a raid on somewhere irrelevant. One police officer might show up at a critical moment to distract the villain and probably get killed, but that's all.




I can see that, those movies or TV shows don´t bother me at all. There are others, however, where only a couple of policemen work on the serial killer´s case (when everyone knows he´s a serial killer that has killed several or many people)


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## Ranger REG (Sep 2, 2006)

Elemental said:
			
		

> Well, it saves time that way. In movies, even if the hero had a huge team backing him up, the police never show up en masse until just _after_ the final confrontation between hero and villain. Most of the time, they'll have followed a red herring and be launching a raid on somewhere irrelevant. One police officer might show up at a critical moment to distract the villain and probably get killed, but that's all.



That's another stereotype I hate: dumb beat cops.

Even worse: dumb police detective in a private detective film.


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## Hypersmurf (Sep 3, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> Another stereotype to complain of:
> 
> If all the characters in a movie are non-American, they have to speak with stupid fake accents so that anyone in the audience who's as dumb as the studio execs will remember that they're not Americans. My favorite example is *K-19: The Widowmaker*. All the characters are Russian, so why do they need Russian accents?  :\




Interestingly, I heard many people make the _opposite_ complaint about _Enemy at the Gates_.

"If they're Russian, why don't they have Russian accents?"
"So... let me get this straight.  It doesn't bother you at all that all these Russians are speaking English to each other.  But it bothers you that they're doing it with British accents?"

As far as I'm concerned, they're speaking English as a cinematic device so we can understand them.  But since it _represents_ them speaking their native language, they should sound like a person speaking his native language, not like someone speaking a language foreign to them with a heavy accent.  Having them speak English like Englishmen didn't bother me at all.

I blame _'Allo 'Allo_.

-Hyp.


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## KenM (Sep 3, 2006)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> As far as I'm concerned, they're speaking English as a cinematic device so we can understand them.  But since it _represents_ them speaking their native language, they should sound like a person speaking his native language, not like someone speaking a language foreign to them with a heavy accent.  Having them speak English like Englishmen didn't bother me at all.
> 
> 
> 
> -Hyp.




  I like how they did it in The Hunt for Red October movie.  They started out speaking russian with subtitles. But in the middle of one line, the actor went from russian to english. It impliled that they were still speaking russian.


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## Berandor (Sep 3, 2006)

Or how they did it in 13th Warrior, where there is a montage of said warrior trying to learn the Norse tongue at campfires etc., and when he has a sufficient grip on the language, they switch to them speaking English, and Mr. 13 speaks with an accent.


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## Villano (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm more bothered by incosistent accents.  I caught part of a viking movie on TV and the accents were all over the place.  Some either had Scandinavian accents or tried to do them, while others were British and white-bread American.  When they are all supposed to be from the same village, it's distracting.

There was an interesting take on different accents in the movie The Blue Max.  In it, the German aristocrats all spoke with British accents, while the lower classes were played by Americans.  It was unique shorthand to cue people in on who was what class without explaining it.

Anyway, all this talk of accents reminds me of a funny impression of The Hunt For Red October someone once did.  They started doing Sean Connery bragging about his "fine Russian crew" and then did the crew as a bunch of Scotties from Star Trek ("I kinnot hold 'er together, Captain!").


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## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 4, 2006)

Seeing all the talk about the “white man makes a better Indian/Samurai/Whatever than do the real Indians/Samurais/Whatever” made me think…

How often has that actually happened?

In _Little Big Man,_ Brimshack and Ed_Laprade make a good case whether or not the Hoffman character does “prove himself,” and if so, to what degree.

In _Dances With Wolves,_ the Costner character does not “save” the Indians. While he does make himself useful during a buffalo hunt and during a skirmish, it is the Indians who have to save him from the white soldiers.

That said, the relationship Cruise’ character in _Last Samurai_ had with the Japanese characters was hard to swallow and the final speech by the Japanese Emperor was almost saccharine. The movie was only bearable due to the visuals and Ken Watanabe’s performance.

In a similar vein is the forthcoming _Pathfinder_, which according to IMDB.com is about: A Viking boy is left behind after his clan battles a Native American tribe. Raised within the tribe, he (as played by Karl Urban) ultimately becomes their savoir in a fight against the Norsemen. If I go see it, it will be for the visual special. And possibly women in leather.


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## werk (Sep 6, 2006)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> In a similar vein is the forthcoming _Pathfinder_, which according to IMDB.com is about: A Viking boy is left behind after his clan battles a Native American tribe. Raised within the tribe, he (as played by Karl Urban) ultimately becomes their savoir in a fight against the Norsemen. If I go see it, it will be for the visual special. And possibly women in leather.




Didn't I already read that in an R.A. Salvatore book?  Young man left behind in a raid, raised by enemies, later coming to their aid...I wonder if he becomes leader of the Norsemen after killing their leader...


Another stereotype that I dislike (probably mentioned already) is the sassy kid.  Since when are kids allowed to snap out witticisms about their parents and not get smacked for it?

Dad-"No, this is too small..."
Kid-"That's what mom said!"


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## sniffles (Sep 6, 2006)

werk said:
			
		

> Another stereotype that I dislike (probably mentioned already) is the sassy kid.  Since when are kids allowed to snap out witticisms about their parents and not get smacked for it?



You haven't been around kids much lately, have you?


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## Ranger REG (Sep 7, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> You haven't been around kids much lately, have you?



You mean kids with a red handprint on the side of their face or without?


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## Dragonblade (Sep 7, 2006)

Sorry if these have been done already. Some stereotypes that I hate:

1) Stupid people in horror movies. If you hear a chainsaw and maniacal laughter coming from the basement, you wouldn't walk down there to check it out all alone with a dim flashlight.

2) Unstoppable supernatural evils. Think Ring or the Grudge. Just once I'd like the hero to greet the evil ghost climbing out of their TV with a baseball bat to the face. And actually have it be effective.


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## Huw (Sep 7, 2006)

sniffles said:
			
		

> You haven't been around kids much lately, have you?




Reminds me of a funny incident with my kid (aged 5). We went swimming, and as we went into the male changing rooms, we were confronted by the sight of an extremely fat, sweaty nude man changing. My son starts to say "What a disgusting.....", but I managed to cut him off at that point.


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## Huw (Sep 7, 2006)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> 2) Unstoppable supernatural evils. Think Ring or the Grudge. Just once I'd like the hero to greet the evil ghost climbing out of their TV with a baseball bat to the face. And actually have it be effective.




As it happens, I've just finished watching the old Doctor Who story _City of Death_ which does this (Spoiler below):



Spoiler



The Doctor + companions travel back in time to confront the alien villain, who they must stop getting to his spaceship and destroying the world. The cop who's with them simply gets up and punches the approaching alien. The Doctor tells him "that was the most important punch in history."


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## KenM (Sep 7, 2006)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> 1) Stupid people in horror movies. If you hear a chainsaw and maniacal laughter coming from the basement, you wouldn't walk down there to check it out all alone with a dim flashlight.





  But if they did not act stupid, the movie would fall apart. So its more like a law that you have to act stupid in a horrow movie.


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## WayneLigon (Sep 7, 2006)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> 1) Stupid people in horror movies. If you hear a chainsaw and maniacal laughter coming from the basement, you wouldn't walk down there to check it out all alone with a dim flashlight.




Several years ago, I had people over for gaming. We play in the dining room; next to this is the kitchen and past that a darkened laundry room. The dogs sleep in the laundry room when company is over. One dog makes a fairly bizarre noise when she cleans herself, but she doesn't do it very often at all. We're in the dining room playing and I hear her start this sound. I ignore it, but one guy doesn't. He looks towards the dark laundry room a couple times and finally gets up and says 'OK, I have to see what's making that sound'.

We all laughed, and I said 'You know, if this were a horror film, the audience would be all 'No, idiot! Don't go into the dark room alone where the weird sound is coming from!''.


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## Odhanan (Sep 7, 2006)

Some sample stereotypical pet peeves:

- Husbands are always retarded-teen morons (especially in commercials on TV). The Wife is obviously more mature and knows better than the "male". 
- People with a non-western lifestyle (native americans and africans for instance) have a more "simple" lifestyle and by extension, personalities. They are morally better people than westerners. Western culture is naturally corrupt. Blame Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the "myth of the good savage" for that.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 8, 2006)

Odhanan said:
			
		

> - Husbands are always retarded-teen morons (especially in commercials on TV). The Wife is obviously more mature and knows better than the "male".



Yet I can stomach this over a walking brain-dead trophy wife who speaks her lines that have nothing to do with the topic of the conversation in the scene.




			
				Odhanan said:
			
		

> - People with a non-western lifestyle (native americans and africans for instance) have a more "simple" lifestyle and by extension, personalities. *They are morally better people than westerners. Western culture is naturally corrupt.* Blame Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the "myth of the good savage" for that.



      

Yep, it's good to be a non-Western.


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## Rackhir (Sep 8, 2006)

KenM said:
			
		

> But if they did not act stupid, the movie would fall apart. So its more like a law that you have to act stupid in a horrow movie.




There was a great sketch on SNL once that I call the "Wait a moment" Skit. Basically, they are running through the typical Slasher-Killing Teenagers horror movies cliches, but every time the characters would go do the stupid thing that the characters would normally do, they go "Wait a moment."

The Kids making out on the couch, hear a noise from the basement, but rather than go check it out or ignore it and continue making out they go "Wait a moment, there is a serial killer around we should call the police."

The Cops getting the call from the Teenagers start to dismiss it, but then go "Wait a moment. There is a serial killer about and it is our job to check this sort of thing out.

They get to the house are are about to go into the basement, where of course the lights are out and they go "Wait a moment, if there is a serial killer down there we should pull out our flashlights and pistols first."

So they do so and when they open the door and shine their lights down the stairs. Of course there's the serial killer and they open up and blow him away.


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## Huw (Sep 8, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Yep, it's good to be a non-Western.




According to the text under your avatar, you're in Hawaii. That's UTC-10 hours. That makes you very Western indeed


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## Mercule (Sep 8, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Yep, it's good to be a non-Western.




But, if you were truly a "noble savage", you wouldn't gloat.

You must be one of them non-white villains.  "Mabel, git my gun."


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## Ranger REG (Sep 8, 2006)

Mercule said:
			
		

> But, if you were truly a "noble savage", you wouldn't gloat.
> 
> You must be one of them non-white villains.  "Mabel, git my gun."



I'm only cruel and sadistic when I'm a DM.

But I'm your basic nice angry guy with nary a Western [European] blood.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 8, 2006)

Huw said:
			
		

> According to the text under your avatar, you're in Hawaii. That's UTC-10 hours. That makes you very Western indeed



But here it doesn't feel Western.


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## johnsemlak (Sep 9, 2006)

I hate how in cop shows/movies like Law and order or CSI, the federal police (FBI, Secret Service, whatever) are always viewed as incompetent, arrogant, and ignorant.  The local police are always treated as the ones who actually understand the situation.


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## johnsemlak (Sep 9, 2006)

KenM said:
			
		

> I like how they did it in The Hunt for Red October movie.  They started out speaking russian with subtitles. But in the middle of one line, the actor went from russian to english. It impliled that they were still speaking russian.




The Russian was absolutely horrible though.  I watched the scences with Russian friends and we couldn't make a word of it.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 9, 2006)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> I hate how in cop shows/movies like Law and order or CSI, the federal police (FBI, Secret Service, whatever) are always viewed as incompetent, arrogant, and ignorant.  The local police are always treated as the ones who actually understand the situation.



Oh, yeah. PO below Detective grade are better at solving crimes both low- and high-profiles. Detectives just look good on media cameras.


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## Uzumaki (Sep 10, 2006)

Huw said:
			
		

> I was trying to think of a black female main villain, and all I could come up with was Dame Vaako from _Chronicles of Riddick_. Hers and Mrs Palmer's goals were very similar.




Auntie Entity in _Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome_.

About the schlub husband/hot wife syndrome, most sitcoms featuring a comedian are just vehicles for the comedian. The wife is taken from a pool of actresses.


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