# Ngaah!  Magic item foibles!



## genshou (Sep 8, 2005)

Seeing as the flexibility in EoM spells makes for a great deal of flexibility in magic items as well, I've sometimes had difficulty with premaking every magic item the PCs come upon.  Using EoM in a world like Forgotten Realms (see my story hour) only means that I have to be even more creative.  How have others addressed the issue of a lack of treasure tables in EoM, if it is an issue for you at all?

P.S. No, *RangerWickett*, I am a good boy and would never complain about the fact that you didn't include treasure tables in the book.  It would have ended up 300 pages long


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## Primitive Screwhead (Sep 8, 2005)

I run a combined Core/EoM game, so this issue has not arisen. Special items are made using EoM.. and my EoM Druid has not looked into creating items yet.
 Altho he is tempted 

All other items are stock from the PHB, at list price. I don't follow the wealth by level to closely either, tending to a low magic game. 

No problems so far!


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## genshou (Sep 9, 2005)

Unfortunately, this solution cannot work for me.  Pledge of Tyranny has been entirely gutted to remove all Vancian magic, and then replaced solely with EOM.  So, all magic items are derived from EOM rules.  It wouldn't be so much of a problem if I wasn't so tired of handing out custom and personalized magic items.


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## Verequus (Sep 9, 2005)

Why don't you simply convert the core magic items?


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## genshou (Sep 11, 2005)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Why don't you simply convert the core magic items?



Because that would involve a great deal of work and leave me confined to the magic items in _normal_ D&D.  And I don't like the normal magic items.

Am I stubborn?  Aye.  And proud of it, [laddie/lass]!


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## Verequus (Sep 11, 2005)

genshou said:
			
		

> Because that would involve a great deal of work and leave me confined to the magic items in _normal_ D&D.  And I don't like the normal magic items.




Okay, but why do have all people different magic items? Aren't there certain kinds, which are used commonly, like fireball wands? Hmm, the fireball spells could differ a bit, but as long the used MP are the same, you need only to swap the actual spell description - and roll some dice for the left charges. Yeah, a simple template for magic items - you predetermine the costs, the used MP for the spell and the maximum charges. The rest should be easy. BTW, why don't you share your new created magic items?



			
				genshou said:
			
		

> Am I stubborn?  Aye.  And proud of it, [laddie/lass]!




Laddie. But why don't you use lassie? Because of this series?


Oh, the topic reminds me of two questions, I've always forgot to ask: Can be weapons without being masterwork enchanted? (Haven't seen this silly requirement.) Can all people use magic items - or is some restriction like having a class spell list? (Haven't seen the latter either.)


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## Primitive Screwhead (Sep 11, 2005)

There is no limitation to what sort of material you use.. hence being able to create Flaming Bone Clubs and their ilk 

The masterwork kinda makes sense if you figure the creator has to spend special time/attention the the item, represented in DnD {as usual} by GP cost. My thinking on the silly requirement that special pigmented paints and other stuff would be used in the process.. which all cost about the same as making the item masterwork.


As to using... it depends on how the item is designed.
 Spell completion items require the user to have the spell lists in question. IMC most high powered items are made this way.


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## RangerWickett (Sep 11, 2005)

It's something I've considered for a mini-book, but a large book of EOM magic items probably would not sell well enough for me to want to devote the necessary effort. A handful of flavorful items I can get behind, but a large book with all the necessary basic items would no interest me as a writer.

Of course, if you've statted up a few items, I'd consider putting them out as a mini-book. Let me know if you're interested.


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## genshou (Sep 12, 2005)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Okay, but why do have all people different magic items? Aren't there certain kinds, which are used commonly, like fireball wands? Hmm, the fireball spells could differ a bit, but as long the used MP are the same, you need only to swap the actual spell description - and roll some dice for the left charges. Yeah, a simple template for magic items - you predetermine the costs, the used MP for the spell and the maximum charges. The rest should be easy. BTW, why don't you share your new created magic items?



Well, some items change price drastically.  Others just don't work in the setting (I consider lightsabers to be the bane of vp/wp, and since brilliant energy weapons are the same way, I disallow this sort of weapon enhancement in Pledge of Tyranny).  Converting all the magic items from 3E to Elements of Magic takes free time, which to me is a necessity rather than a luxury.

I'll share custom items with you when I am up to date on my story hour 


> Laddie. But why don't you use lassie? Because of this series?



Being ethnically Scottish as well as knowing a number of native Scotsmen, I've never heard my people use "lad" or "lassie" to refer to someone.


> Oh, the topic reminds me of two questions, I've always forgot to ask: Can be weapons without being masterwork enchanted? (Haven't seen this silly requirement.) Can all people use magic items - or is some restriction like having a class spell list? (Haven't seen the latter either.)



Charged items can be made as spell completion items for half price.  Doing so requires a caster level check against the spell's MP cost to use the item, but anyone can make the caster level check (non-casters get +0).  Based on the difference in how this works, I've HR'd the Use Magic Device skill to allow a UMD check to replace the caster level check, so it remains marginally useful at all levels.  I haven't seen a masterwork requirement for magic weapons and armor in EoM, but I may have just not seen it.  I do enforce it in my own games, however.


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## Verequus (Sep 13, 2005)

genshou said:
			
		

> Well, some items change price drastically.  Others just don't work in the setting (I consider lightsabers to be the bane of vp/wp, and since brilliant energy weapons are the same way, I disallow this sort of weapon enhancement in Pledge of Tyranny).  Converting all the magic items from 3E to Elements of Magic takes free time, which to me is a necessity rather than a luxury.




Which items change their price from core to EoMR? Slippers of Spider Climbing are one exception, although their utility is improved.



			
				genshou said:
			
		

> Being ethnically Scottish as well as knowing a number of native Scotsmen, I've never heard my people use "lad" or "lassie" to refer to someone.




You never learn out!



			
				genshou said:
			
		

> Charged items can be made as spell completion items for half price.  Doing so requires a caster level check against the spell's MP cost to use the item, but anyone can make the caster level check (non-casters get +0).  Based on the difference in how this works, I've HR'd the Use Magic Device skill to allow a UMD check to replace the caster level check, so it remains marginally useful at all levels.




How do you determine the DC? Is it the same as for the caster level check? Personally, I think this HR is a great idea - consider it yoinked!


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## genshou (Sep 13, 2005)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Which items change their price from core to EoMR? Slippers of Spider Climbing are one exception, although their utility is improved.



Generally, anything that casts a specific spell changes in price simply because the way EOM puts spells together makes the MP cost vastly or slightly different.  For instance, a cape of the mountebank would probably be cheaper (have to go to work in a moment, so can't do the math right now), while a ring of ULTIMATE ELEMENTAL IMMUNITY would actually be possible in a non-epic item.  Uber cheapness.


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## Verequus (Sep 13, 2005)

For the cape of the mountebank we would need the Dimension Door spell:

Dimension Door
Move Space 9/Gen 0
Total MP: 9
Range: Touch
Duration: One Minute

With this spell, the caster can teleport up to 800 ft. without any error.

Costs: 7 MP teleport range, 2 MP precise.

The formula is: 9 x 9 x 2000 / 5 gp = 32,400 gp. The core item costs 10,080 gp, which means that the EoMR variant has the triple cost (and you can't even take someone else with you).

The ring of Universal Elemental Immunity cost in core 2,160,000 gp. For this we need this spell:

Universal Energy Immunity
Abjure Force 15/Gen 1
Total MP: 16
Range: Touch
Duration: 1 hour

You have against all elements full protrection.

Costs: 1 MP discounted duration, 15 MP abjure force element immunity.

The formula for this type of magic item is: 16 x 16 x 1000 gp = 256,000 gp. That is 1/8th of the core item cost.

Unless someone runs all the numbers, it can't be assessed, which kind of items is cheaper or more costly in EoMR.


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## genshou (Sep 14, 2005)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Unless someone runs all the numbers, it can't be assessed, which kind of items is cheaper or more costly in EoMR.



Yep, and unfortunately running all the numbers takes a while.

I'm working out the idea of d% tables to randomly select spell lists.  If it could be worked into a magic item table, it would still allow some customization with each item in the form of spell enhancements and such.  Could make for some interesting items, too.


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## Malachias Invictus (Sep 15, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> It's something I've considered for a mini-book, but a large book of EOM magic items probably would not sell well enough for me to want to devote the necessary effort. A handful of flavorful items I can get behind, but a large book with all the necessary basic items would no interest me as a writer.
> 
> Of course, if you've statted up a few items, I'd consider putting them out as a mini-book. Let me know if you're interested.




I am interested.  I have emailed you.

MI


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## RangerWickett (Sep 19, 2005)

I've gotten offers from two people to work on a magic item book. Unfortunately I'll be busy tonight and tomorrow working on edits for The Technologist, but I hope I'll be able to get in touch with you two.


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## Malachias Invictus (Sep 29, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> I've gotten offers from two people to work on a magic item book. Unfortunately I'll be busy tonight and tomorrow working on edits for The Technologist, but I hope I'll be able to get in touch with you two.




I have not heard from you.  Still busy, or are you having difficulties in reaching me?


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