# Dragon Age 2



## Krug (Mar 11, 2011)

Bought it but don't have time to really play (or even install) it yet. What do people think?


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## fba827 (Mar 11, 2011)

Krug said:


> Bought it but don't have time to really play (or even install) it yet. What do people think?




I am in the exact same boat as you.

Though I did just play through the demo last week.  I did enjoy the demo (somewhat... mind you, i'm an "in it for the story" sort of player, so not getting much of the story, which makes sense for the demo, was not quite the same for me).  And from the demo, things seems similar enough to DA:O that i could feel the consistency (despite claims on other message boards where people talked about how it felt nothing like the origins.. i disagree. at least from the demo. it all felt the same...)


Anyone else who does reply to Krug's post... please, i am asking nicely, be sure to put spoilers in sblock tags or something.  i would greatly appreciate not getting anything spoiled since the game has been out less than a couple days at this point.  thanks in advance.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 11, 2011)

I haven't played it yet, but my wife is crazy hardcore into Bioware games (I think she beat origins with 20 different characters -- really) and, naturally, she's been going nuts since getting DA2.

The stuff she likes (not spoilers, since it was talked about in interviews) are the time gaps in the narrative, which you saw some of in the demo. They allow the story to develop more quickly than if you had to play it all out in (almost) real time and relationships can evolve over the years.

She also likes the more realistic relationships with companions. Instead of Morrigan, or whomever, flipping you the bird and storming out in a huff, you can have companions you disagree with who still like you or who are with you for the good of the people, even if they think you're kind of a ninny.

But yeah, she'd been scared of all the people saying how much it's changed from DAO, but other than not being able to play her beloved dwarf characters, the experience has been very similar this time around for her.


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## Welverin (Mar 11, 2011)

fba827 said:


> (despite claims on other message boards where people talked about how it felt nothing like the origins.. i disagree. at least from the demo. it all felt the same...)




It doesn't, at least on the consoles.

As I mentioned in the demo thread, I played the demo on my PC and PS3. The combat is so different it's like I was playing two different games, kind of like how Wii games are different from PC/PS3/360 games.

The PS3 version was more of an action rpg, the X button is your basic attack and the other three face buttons serve as hot keys for talents, with the R2 button serving as a toggle for another three. Playing that first was a reall what the hell moment, and the feeling of dread didn't go away until I played the PC version. This despite reading more than once that the combat change was for the console versions and the PC version was mostly the same.

The PC version was mostly the same (bit more active, but basically the same).


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## Ebon Shar (Mar 11, 2011)

I am shockingly disappointed and I think Bioware made a big mistake.  All the things that I loved about DA:O have  been removed.  No longer do you have to worry about managing your inventory, because it's been stripped down to almost nothing.  Nor do you have to worry about equiping your companions,  you can only give them rings and amulets.  A few you can give weapons, but not all.  All of the special equipment, like the Blood Dragon Armor, can only be assigned to the main character, who must be human.  Sub-classes?  They're gone.  Top down, tactical combat?  Gone too.  

Bottom line, the game has turned into a shallow, Hack and Slash console game.  It does look pretty though.


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## fba827 (Mar 11, 2011)

Ebon Shar said:


> I am shockingly disappointed and I think Bioware made a big mistake.  All the things that I loved about DA:O have  been removed.  No longer do you have to worry about managing your inventory, because it's been stripped down to almost nothing.  Nor do you have to worry about equiping your companions,  you can only give them rings and amulets.  A few you can give weapons, but not all.  All of the special equipment, like the Blood Dragon Armor, can only be assigned to the main character, who must be human.  Sub-classes?  They're gone.  Top down, tactical combat?  Gone too.
> 
> Bottom line, the game has turned into a shallow, Hack and Slash console game.  It does look pretty though.




All the things that you loved about DA:O are removed?  But most of your statements are about inventory.  What else has been removed?

(though, personally, i found inventory to be overly complex in DA:O.  Plus, I like the idea of companions staying with their signature weapons and armor that upgrades with them - so I can't say based on second-hand knowledge alone that i agree with it as a downside.  of course, once i get my hands on it, i may end up changing my position on the matter).

As far as subclasses?  I had read that each of the companions get their own special tree, kind of like everyone gets their own special subclass.  Is that not the case?


But back to the original point that you made... what else is "everything you loved about DA:O now being removed for DA:2" .. or did you dislike DA:O to begin with and that's why it was only those 3 things (inventory system, subclasses, and topdown view)?

I'm just genuinely curious to see how much our tastes align, or not align.  Because I liked a whole lot of DA:O and if I said everything I liked was taken out..well, that would be a huge statement for me to make but for others it might mean less if they liked the original less then i did.


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## Sutekh (Mar 11, 2011)

Wha? Someone said I couldnt play a Dwarf?

Its not a human or human or human choice game is it?

I found the Dwarves in DAO to be extremely interesting with all the caste/ politics going on. Sure they got stereotypical with their deep roads but the connection with the golems and their arena battles was very interesting.

Im not sure I want to play it now if its basically human or human game.


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## Ebon Shar (Mar 11, 2011)

When I play a CRPG, I want the nitty gritty details.  I want to micromanage my party.  If I could, I'd want to be able to decide what color underwear they are wearing.  DA 2 has taken that away from me.  Some people may enjoy the new stream-lined combat, with the smaller battle areas, but I do not.  I remember an epic battle in DA:O in the dwarven area in which I had to pause every few seconds and issue commands to each of my characters.  So far, I've had to do little more than click combat options in DA 2.  Tactics haven't really come into play.  Admittedly, I've only played up through 6th level, so I may not have seen everything, but what I've seen has been overly streamlined and simplified and just plain dumbed down.  

With all my complaints, DA 2 is still fun, but it pales in comparison to the original game.


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## Ebon Shar (Mar 11, 2011)

Sutekh said:


> Wha? Someone said I couldnt play a Dwarf?
> 
> Its not a human or human or human choice game is it?
> 
> ...




Human only.  Sorry.  You do get a dwarven companion early in the game.


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## John Crichton (Mar 11, 2011)

fba827 said:


> As far as subclasses?  I had read that each of the companions get their own special tree, kind of like everyone gets their own special subclass.  Is that not the case?



Yup, the specializations are still there.  You can see them on the talent page.  Certain powers can only be unlocked if the companion feels either positive or negative towards you.  I dig that quite a bit.


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## Gulla (Mar 11, 2011)

After some hours I am switching fast between "OOOOH! Shiny!" bliss and "I Want My Numbers Back!" irritation. Dragon Age 2 so far seem to me to take a very long step in the same direction Mass Effect 2 did. Away from Baldur's Gate and the other turn based, detail oriented, tactically challenging games I love. It still seems to be a good game but to me the feeling is more like Morrowind/Fallout 3/Gothic and no longer gives the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale feeling.

You can still pause, but it doesn't seem like I can queue actions, which means I spend much more time in pause mode than in DA1.
There is an inventory, but it seems to be very close to ME2's "when you get better you get more pluses and maybe a new look". So far there have been very little choice that is not obvious. I like to chose between options like "even more attack power by sacrificing defence", "be mediocre in everything" and "lots of protection, but not much damage". This is often and traditionally done with inventory management and equipment. Actually so far it seems that the Facebook game does this much better.

There is very little customisation of the PC and even less for the NPC (since they don't have full equipment management). With no skills (all is derivatives of the stats and specifically bound to class) it is very simple, but with little flexibility. There is a feat system, which is good for customising, but I feel it is very little.

The story so far is nice, but I have only booked 4-5 hours so far. But I will play on to get more story. What I have seen of the NPCs so far seems interesting. I want to know them more.

The conversation system is like in ME2. I'm ambivalent to it, but it works. I prefer to see exactly what I'm going to say and like having skills and stats influencing which answers you have. And I really dislike having voice acting on the main character. He is supposed to be mi avatar in the game (or "me" more often) and I have never experienced any voice acting getting even close to my wish.

So to sum up: 

It looks pretty
It doesn't feel anything like Baldur's Gate/Torment/Icewind Dale any more
I don't really like the combat, but turning down difficulty makes it shorter and since it's not my favourite type of combat that is good.
Voice acting of Hawke is bad (since I don't like it, not because it is bad craftsmanship)

I have just finished Drakensang: River of Time before starting on DA2, and I think that game much better captures the BG/IWD/Torment feeling with full control of the party, detailed skills and inventories and stoppable turn based combat, than DA2 does.

So I'll have to drop my hopes of a new BG2 and play DA2 like what it is: An action oriented RPG with (so far) interesting NPCs and story. A pity, though, since Witcher 2, Skyrim and ME3 were the RPGs of that type I was hoping for this year. I hoped DA2 would be different.


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## Kobold Avenger (Mar 11, 2011)

I don't care too much about how they changed the inventory management, you still pick up crap to sell all the time just like origins.  Except now there's less clutter, with the changes to crafting stuff.

Some characters back in DA:O also had their own stuff that you shouldn't have really changed, like Morrigan had a set of robes or other things that was better than anything else you could give her.  And it never felt right to equip Sten with something better than that greatsword you spent a quest getting.  Torment was also a lot like DA2, you couldn't give Dakkon or Fall-From-Grace anything except for armour that was built for them, and it was not a Bioware game.

For the combat, don't play the game on normal, the difficulty on Normal has been lowered on the PC to match the difficulties on the consoles.

For the plot it seems like one I'll probably enjoy more, Origins plot seemed to be a little too obvious at what you had to do.  I think the plot has to do with a Mage vs. Templar conflict, which is interesting since my Mage Warden (and happens to be a relative of Hawke) who's save I transferred, was very pro-Mage in a lot of decisions.


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## Mallus (Mar 11, 2011)

After ME2, I'm not sure I ever want to see --well, at least for the foreseeable future-- a complex inventory management screen. I want immersion that flows from from doing exciting stuff on screen, not pouring over spreadsheets, even ones sporting soothing and fancy pseudo-futuristic interfaces. 

I starting playing CRPGs back when simple graphics and simple spreadsheets were all a machine could handle; now that games can put you *there*, well, turns out there is *is* a there, there, up to the point even onscreen conversations can be satisfying, well, I'm in no rush to return to the earlier form of the experience.

_Wizard's Crown_ was terrific back in the day. So was _Baldur's Gate_. But right now give me Sheppard and Sheppard-like game play/presentation. The traditional-style CRPG has had a long, successful run, but it's time for something new.

(I'm patiently waiting for my buddy to finish DA2 for the PS3. We'll see how long my patience holds out before I break down and buy it.)


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## LightPhoenix (Mar 11, 2011)

I like the faster combat; I got very sick of DA:O's slugfests.  However, all of the problems Bioware has with encounter design are still there; numerous trash battles, enemies appearing out of nowhere every battle, tedious boss battles, and so forth.  Saying this is unique to DA2 isn't fair; this is stuff Bioware has done since NWN and before.

Inventory/stats/abilities is fine, IMO.  Skills are gone technically, but they're still there _per se_ in various forms; integrated into the conversation system, as passive abilities, crafting benches, and cunning checks.  Honestly, I think a lot of outcry about this stuff is differences in personal likes/dislikes rather than _actual_ problems with the game (see below).

Ambiance-wise, the usual Bioware stuff irks; specifically big cities with no people.  One _big_ misstep though, was in level design.  There's not nearly as much visual variety as there was in DAO, and the levels all feel a lot more linear.  Additionally, it's clear that the levels were designed for console first with no thought to the PC.  I've found several places difficult to traverse because I'm using the mouse and not the keyboard to move.  Specifically doorways are a problem.  An overhead camera would fix this very simply.  Playing through DA2 makes me want to return to DAO and experience some of those areas again.

Voice acting for the companions and main characters is generally good.  However, a lot of the other characters are not that great.  Specifically, there's been more than one instance I've noted where a line has the wrong inflection and emphasis.  I get that not everyone while be on the level of someone like Mulgrew.  That's why there is someone directing the VO that should have stopped and told these people how to say stuff more naturally.

So far the banter has been amusing, but the story is a little on the weak side.  I think a big part of that is because Act I (spoilers) 



Spoiler



is basically all side-quests with the goal "we need money."  Don't we all.


.  DAO felt a lot more epic in this regard - sure, there was openness, but there was a pretty important goal - gain allies to fight the Darkspawn.


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## frankthedm (Mar 11, 2011)

Are enemies still level matched to the party? Didn't like how the first game made gaining experience a waste of time. Crap like that puts way too much emphasis on having an optimized build IMHO. 

Maybe I just didn't know what i was doing, but I picked a warrior to FIGHT, but to get past bosses I had to trick them into running after me.


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## John Crichton (Mar 11, 2011)

DA:O only had level scaling to a point.  It absolutely made a difference if you character was higher level at many points in the game.


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## Enforcer (Mar 12, 2011)

So far I've enjoyed it. I like the Mass Effect 2 style dialog—it's nice to actually hear Hawke speak. The combat visuals are intense, I feel like much more of a badass than I did in the first Dragon Age.


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## NotanNPC (Mar 13, 2011)

I didn't play Origins...but I tried the demo for DA2...I wasn't impressed. It felt too hack n slash for me. Maybe I played it wrong.

I love rpg video games...but I just get bored with them. I've started FFIIV a hundred times and never made it past the 3rd disc.

The demo didn't let you sample the inventory system...how does it play?


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## Krug (Mar 13, 2011)

I squeezed some time to play and enjoying it so far. I'm a casual player but the story definitely keeps me interested.


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## JustKim (Mar 13, 2011)

Last year my partner got into DA:O and played the game to completion. That was a big deal because she doesn't play video games, doesn't have that coordination and way of thinking that they require. Dragon Age was easy enough for her to complete just by casually pressing buttons and listening to a story. Needless to say, DA2 was highly anticipated.

I was conflicted about DA2 because I knew that it was going to be harder. It's more action-oriented and demanding. Worse, the autoattack feature is not yet patched into our platform and so it demands relentless button-pressing and switching around. But now she's invested in the story, and so far she's stuck with it. This could lead to great things. It could lead to an interest in tabletop RPGs. I would very much like it if it did.

Oh, the game itself is pretty fun too. I like the characters of Merrill and Varric, and I stabbed a dragon in the butt for 900 damage.

For people concerned that DA2 is not tactical enough, raise the difficulty. The amount of micromanagement you do is directly proportional to the difficulty. At higher settings you must cycle through your party in veritable turn-based mode and command them with exacting precision, or you will die.


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## NotanNPC (Mar 13, 2011)

JustKim said:


> I stabbed a dragon in the butt for 900 damage.




I may have to reconsider this game....


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## Redrobes (Mar 14, 2011)

Apparently you gotta be careful what you say on the EA forums with this one...

EA blocks user from game after alleged forum outburst ? reghardware


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## Banshee16 (Mar 14, 2011)

That's not cool...and definitely grounds for a complaint.  Regardless of what they write into their legal agreements, as a customer I don't think you have access to read their agreements, let alone agree to them, until after you've opened the box, and possibly attempted to install the software.

At that point, it's too late to return the software as the stores won't take it back unopened.

Sounds rather draconian to me.  EA can't have its cake and eat it too.

Of course, I haven't opened and installed my copy yet, so maybe I should do so before complaining 

Colour me disappointed in their behaviour.  There are valid points that the limitations built into the ability to outfit party members etc. are similar to what was done in Planescape: Torment, arguably one of the best RPG's of all time.  However......it's a massive change from the way the original game was.

DA: O was awesome, and I bought the sequel, not being aware of the level of simplification that's been implemented.  Yes, there's a demo....but I rarely try them on games that are sequels of ones I've already enjoyed.  Only really if it's a new property I'm unsure of.

I'll reserve judgement until I've played it, but I can say I'm disappointed by what I'm hearing.

Banshee
Banshee


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm somewhat disapointed. The origin story aspect really made the first game, but that's gone, so I haven't connected to the character much. Combat is not tactical enough, and the graphics are a problem. You used to see your character run a darkspawn through, now they just explode into a bloody mess. They seem to have gone to a more cartoony look; the way my Hawke swings his greatsword is almost out of anime. I've killed a couple of dragons before reaching 10th level, my first revenant was killed almost before I noticed it.

Beyond that, the locations are really limited, as compared to the geographic diversity of Origins. Underground areas are frequently recycled. Music is often recycled from the first one, and none of the new tracks have made any impact. I'm very disappointed to be paying $60 for a game with weak recycled content.

The characters have not made as much impression as those from origins; the few carryovers are at the expense of logic. Anders, having been 'epic' in Awakenings, pops up at the same level you are. Huh? Isabella has been changed a bit for some reason. The Dalish are now Scottish, the Qunari have silly-looking horns (and none of them is match for Sten's voice acting). You can import save data but I haven't seen much impact from it yet.

Mechanically, the new ability trees are good, and I like the way different abilities interact (frozen/stunned/etc. enemies take extra damage) and the fact that there are usually improved versions of each power. The companion interaction system is better than the sometimes silly gift-giving in Origins, and the mass effect dialogue wheel is an improvement as well. The dwarf narrating your tale is an interesting touch but I haven't gotten far into that yet.

I'm only about 10 hours in, and I've avoided the main plot in favor of side quests, having learned from Mass Effect that this is the way to play. It's not a horribly unfun game and there are some technical improvements, but as of yet, it doesn't hold a candle to the original, which I found gripping right away.


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## Sutekh (Mar 15, 2011)

i will admit I bit the bullet and bought the game from Steam. My thoughts after 12 hours of game play (and please note VERY spoiler heavy and Im playing on normal))

Some observations (and partly based on other peoples thoughts from the above comments)

1. Feels a lot like a console Game to me. The one click attack and play especially.

2. Still disappointed im stuck as a Human. While this lets the story be more focussed, I really do miss the origin story of my Dwarf Noble. Im not fussed so much if the sister dies or brother dies (but for some reason I did feel a lot sadder when Hawkes mother dies after the whole strange white lillies killer fight)

3. Im using tab a lot so I can see all the little books and notes to read so I can read up on Kirkwall and the setting in general . Otherwise I miss stuff.

4. Oh my god.  The inside of every second house is the same? Why? Is it that hard to make every house different? Same with the caves. Im getting extremely frustrated with seeing the same rock face doors that I cant open and stairs in every cave I come across. 

5. I found out half way through the game that i needed to buy armor upgrades for my companions. Why just have this as armor... surely it would of been easier to do weapons like this too. Seems like they have gone half way with this setup and then decided to stop. 

6. Whats up with the kid son of Bodahn? . Mr 'Enchantment!'. Is he possessed?

7. The Gold curve for game seems out of wack. I had 88 gold by the time I needed to fund the expedition. After that and just buying cool team kit, it just keeps going down with no real big paying jobs. 

8. Im playing a Human mage. I normally take along emo elf (Lyrium Tattoo dude), Averline and Isabella. 

9. I seem to be finding a lot of lost kit and returning it home for an easy 750 exp. All over the place in some really familiar locations

10. Lots of loot stored in crates.

11. Barrels. More loot.

12.  Quinari: I like them a lot. Of all the 'races' in 2 they seem to have had the most work. My most challenging battle was against the Arishok but that was basically me running in circles Winter blasting every so often. 

13. Ive just started again after killing the Arishok.. is there much left to go? 12 hours seems like not much game time.. and I have been doing every quest. (all bar one extremely irritating Herbalist quest at Sundermount)

14. My most challenging battle has been from memory the trap central Evil Pit destroy or read book quest. Very difficult. 

15. My character has been pursuing Isabella most of the game. She came good with her relic for the Arishok before I had to gut him.

16. Am I the only one who disliked Alastair from the previous game? I couldnt stand him. 

17. If I have to go back to the Wounded Coast again for some minor thing, I wont be happy

18, Can I please explore the Continent? Please?


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 15, 2011)

> 16. Am I the only one who disliked Alastair from the previous game? I couldnt stand him.



I hated Alistair.



> 6. Whats up with the kid son of Bodahn? . Mr 'Enchantment!'. Is he possessed?



 This is the Dragon Age version of an autistic savant. He can enchant things but in every other way is extremely limited.



> 5. I found out half way through the game that i needed to buy armor upgrades for my companions. Why just have this as armor... surely it would of been easier to do weapons like this too. Seems like they have gone half way with this setup and then decided to stop.



Kind of stupid yes. I like that you don't end up carrying around 300 elfroots, but they dumbed down the inventory system too much.



> 18, Can I please explore the Continent? Please?



Sure, if you buy another $60 worth of expansions and DLC that is no doubt on its way.


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## Welverin (Mar 15, 2011)

Ahnehnois said:


> Sure, if you buy another $60 worth of expansions and DLC that is no doubt on its way.




Don't be cynical, that's for the sequels.


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## fba827 (Mar 15, 2011)

Sutekh said:


> 5. I found out half way through the game that i needed to buy armor upgrades for my companions. Why just have this as armor... surely it would of been easier to do weapons like this too. Seems like they have gone half way with this setup and then decided to stop.




Since I haven't yet bought stuff for companions I just want to know what mistake you're talking about so I can avoid it if possible...

do you mean buying armor for the companions?  do you mean putting runes on the armor for companions? or is there some other way you're supposed to invest in their armor upgrades?


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## Victim (Mar 15, 2011)

fba827 said:


> Since I haven't yet bought stuff for companions I just want to know what mistake you're talking about so I can avoid it if possible...
> 
> do you mean buying armor for the companions?  do you mean putting runes on the armor for companions? or is there some other way you're supposed to invest in their armor upgrades?




Your companions don't use normal main armor items; they get special armor upgrade items.  These armor upgrades don't appear on the armor tab in stores, and instead show up on the one with the gem.


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## Asmo (Mar 15, 2011)

Sounds like I can wait until christmas and buy the game at Steams holiday sale for a bargain price.

Asmo


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## Welverin (Mar 15, 2011)

Asmo said:


> Sounds like I can wait until christmas and buy the game at Steams holiday sale for a bargain price.




Or during the Perils of Summer, much safer than risking the great outdoors.


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## Sutekh (Mar 16, 2011)

FBA827: Sorry, I should of been more clear. It was around the time I was doing the Lilly Murders quest I found out about the Armor upgrades which can occasionally be purchased from the differing merchants (found under the gem icon.. why under the gem is a better question). I normally had at least one companion go down during a tough fight, so after this find I felt better.. but also annoyed. I had been buying weapons and shields for the characters who needed it, and I will admit did wonder why I could never buy armor for the companions. I by chance happed to click into gem and found some upgrades for Varric.  I was annoyed to think that I had likely missed out on earlier upgrade opportunities. 

Armor upgrades need to go in the Armor section! Ive got no idea what the gem section is even for. Ive bought runes there but never gems. 

*****

Well im still going.

Ive come to the point where Ive just dealt with the 3 mage mission for Meredith. Ive met Alastair and have been talking with Companions?

Is anyone else frustrated that you basically have to take them 'home'  to talk to them? I dont mind their witty banter.. but Ive got to take them home to actually talk to them? And then ... after a conversation tree is finished.. thats it? They will say something, and then something else randomly and then thats it. 

I had a feeling in DAO I could at least have a conversation tree conversation with any current companion at any time. Its been a while since I played. it might of been a rehash of what we had previously talked about but it was still a conversation. 


*****

Final Musings: While Ive enjoyed learning about the world, people/organisations from the codex and things I find .. I must say Im not enjoying this game like I should be.  Im basically playing now to finish it. I feel like Im playing a Fable game .. or a console game thats been 'adapted' for the pc.

Im fairly sure I wont come back to play it again, and after all the build up I read before the game, Im feeling fairly let down. If Im going to get sold out because a game develope cant include varied locations (If you have played, you shouldnt have to ask)  because a console wont like /run it, then Im done with rpgs on the computer


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## Quickleaf (Mar 17, 2011)

Ahnehnois said:


> I'm somewhat disapointed. The origin story aspect really made the first game, but that's gone, so I haven't connected to the character much.



Totally agree. I get that the story's theme is not about where you come from but what you move toward, but there just wasn't enough context for me. It took me a longer time to get invested in the character and then wham! The sibling got killed. If there was some overarching mission to tie it altogether that would keep me invested despite all the loss, but with the "wandering through the years" thing it just feels hollow. My interest is lost.



> Beyond that, the locations are really limited, as compared to the geographic diversity of Origins. Underground areas are frequently recycled. Music is often recycled from the first one, and none of the new tracks have made any impact. I'm very disappointed to be paying $60 for a game with weak recycled content.



There are 2 features I'm sure are tuning jokes among DA players by now: 

First, every cavern side quest just happens to use the same cavern.

Second, every mage and her mother is possessed by demons.

Mechanically, the new ability trees are good, and I like the way different abilities interact (frozen/stunned/etc. enemies take extra damage) and the fact that there are usually improved versions of each power. The companion interaction system is better than the sometimes silly gift-giving in Origins, and the mass effect dialogue wheel is an improvement as well. The dwarf narrating your tale is an interesting touch but I haven't gotten far into that yet.



> I'm only about 10 hours in, and I've avoided the main plot in favor of side quests, having learned from Mass Effect that this is the way to play. It's not a horribly unfun game and there are some technical improvements, but as of yet, it doesn't hold a candle to the original, which I found gripping right away.



I think it's the story which is weakest - there's no driving quest, just this vague "protect the family" (never mind the mounting death toll) and "rise to power".  It doesn't need to be earth-shattering but give me something to go on! My sense is the game will improve as plot threads come together, but right now it's a little boring for me.


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## Sutekh (Mar 18, 2011)

What I also dont get is how so many gaming websites /review organisations are giving this game fairly high grades. Ive seen a 6/10 but nothing worse than that so far.Id give the game a 5 or a 6.


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## Ebon Shar (Mar 18, 2011)

Sutekh said:


> What I also dont get is how so many gaming websites /review organisations are giving this game fairly high grades. Ive seen a 6/10 but nothing worse than that so far.Id give the game a 5 or a 6.




I'm not sure we can trust reviews from corporate owned websites and magazines any more.  I'll stick with user and independent reviews.


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## Krug (Mar 18, 2011)

I don't find it too bad so far. One of the biggest problems I had with DA:O was that you couldn't hear your character speak. The graphics in the sequel are also improved.


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## fba827 (Mar 18, 2011)

i've gotten a chance to play it some.
no, it's not perfect but i'm still having fun with it which is all that matters (for me  ).

Overall...
 * i'm liking the reduced inventory clutter
 * yes, i would have missed upgrading companion armor were it not for the mention a couple of you made in this thread
 * i'm liking the dialogue wheel -concept- (though i'm not keen on some of the icons used since they are not intuitive to me; comparatively, in DOA i'd pick something and then it would be said in a different tone then i expected changing the whole meaning)
 *yes, the reused locations is more than a little obvious... it's enough for me to notice, but not so much that it makes me turn off the game (of course, i am such a forgiving player when it comes to stuff like that so i know my standards are much lower than most gamers in that regard)
 *the friendship/rivaly took some getting used 
 * i have run into one small glitch but nothing earth shattering
 * i enjoyed finding a couple subtle references to DAO... while the overt ones are obvious, the subtle things were a nice touch. [sblock]a scene that i stumbled upon where one of the persons was a cured werewolf from DAO.   Or seeing Cullen again who played such a minor part in DAO but the only reason i remember him is because of secret crush on the warden and how he felt so guilty over it if you played a female mage origin, or hearing how Isabella met Zevran, but meeting Zevran wasn't the point of her story since she was talking about something else, zevran just got mentioned and it explained how and why they met[/sblock]
 * act 1 was more about raising money for the family to survive but i'm noticing more and more in act 2 [sblock] it's a lot of the people you met/rescued/angered in act 1 who are showing up to ask you to do things or they are the people behind the things you are investigating, so threads are starting to tie back together if you're paying attention to who is involved at each quest/event -- at least that's been my observation so far, i don't know if that trend continues further into act 2 or not. of course, if i were better at remembering names and faces, i'm sure it would have an even bigger impact on me than it already does. [/sblock]


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## JohnRTroy (Mar 18, 2011)

I loved the game.  It clocks in at around 50 hours if you do all the side quests.  (I also had the signature edition).

To be honest, I was turned off by the demo but after the demo's period things start picking up well.  It plays very well.  

There were several improvements.  The "walking banter" is a little more dynamic and responds to which act you are in and major events.  I like the new skill trees.  I also enjoy having a voice character.

Only major irritation was the "wave spawning" (enemies sort of respawn in waves and it's just not well done tactically), and some of the equipment streamlining. (You can upgrade companions armor but it's like a gift, they should have made that easier).  I also agree about the re-used environments--they need to work on some sort of procedural dungeon generation and use that instead of what they did this time. Still, it's not nearly as bad as Mass Effect #1.

Storywise, while not akin to an "epic quest" as DA:O, there are more shades of grey.  The two main factions each have good and bad points, and they really made sure it was hard to figure out who to support.  There are a lot more "gotcha" moments, storywise.  One companion does something way late in the game that totally shocked me and almost made me reverse my position.  This isn't gonna be a "choose good or evil" type of game which I think was a flaw in DAO.

There are enough guest starts and touchstones that make you feel part of the same world.  And the ending really sets up possible future events.  

I feel bad for Bioware because they have a lot of this fan backlash right now because of minor changes and I fear there sort of a "rage" effect polluting some of the metacritic reviews.  I really think they did a good job with the timeframe they had to complete this.

Dice Roll = 5, I guess I give it 5 out of 5 stars then!


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## Tarek (Mar 19, 2011)

In my opinion, most of the complaints about the game being "dumbed down" are groundless.

As one example, I still spend time in the inventory screens looking over gear and outfitting companions. Literally the only thing I can't do is equip armor/robe items on them, and that just means more things get sold. This is good, since funds are tight in the beginning and middle of the game.

Combat has been sped up, not "dumbed down". One-click auto attack just takes out the tedium of constantly clicking on a target.

Never, ever missed "tactical view" as an option.

The story in DA 2 feels much more dynamic than the story in DA:O. Everything that happens is a consequence of the different characters pursuing their own goals, and as a result, the story feels far more "real" to me than just another "Let's save the kingdom/country/world" storyline.

About the only things I'm annoyed with, and they're minor annoyances; some animations (mostly Rogue ones) are over the top. Enemy mages and rogues of all types seem to teleport even though this is explicitly impossible according to DA lore. Cave/warehouse/mansion maps are reused a few too many times, and even some of the "unique" maps aren't really, being a reskin of existing maps.  Oh, and the stupidity of NPC enemies "jumping down" into the street from hidden ledges five or six stories up gets really annoying.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Mar 20, 2011)

Just picked it up and started playing this yesterday.  I like it, but I don't think it is as good as DA:O (I'm on the 360 version, sice my computer couldn't handle DA:O).

Pluses:
- Combat sped up, and a bit more mobile
- Ability trees make more sense
- Simplified inventory management (no longer carrying around a bunch of stuff that I don't know whether it's useful or not)
- NPC interaction scale with friendship/rivalry
- Radial interaction menu with the "types" of responses

Minuses:
- Inventory over-simplified; I'd like a few more stats, plus the ability to completely manipulate the party members' kit.
- Map reuse.  Why do I see the same cave over and over?
- Not enough wilderness adventuring (at least so far).  The whole world seems to be a city, a mountain, and a beach.
- I'm not sure what the overarching story is.  This seems to be trying to be a compromise between a big sandbox like Oblivion and a more focused linear story-driven quest.  I thought DA:O got the balance right between the two; this one lacks story but isn't sandboxy enough.
- Does the main PC have to be a rogue? I can't get most of the chests I come across open with Varric.
- It borked up my save import from DA:O and refers to the wrong ending ... I'm not sure if that changes how the game plays.


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## Tarek (Mar 20, 2011)

There are two general categories of stories. Event based plot and character based plot.

DA:O was mostly event-based plot. Most CRPGs, in fact, have event-based plots. Something happens, and you as the player react to it.

DA 2 is a character based plot. Every major character in the game has their own plot, their own series of goals, driven by their personalities. BECAUSE this is neither "normal" nor "expected" in a computer RPG, people are complaining about how "there's no plot, there's no story." Because the protagonist is often not the driving force pushing the plot forward or initiating reactions to events, many players fail to see how good the storytelling actually is.

Lockpicking mechanics are explained in the codex. Varric can open any chest in the game, but only if his cunning is high enough. There are rings and pendants that give a substantial boost to lockpicking specifically, as well.


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 20, 2011)

Tarek said:


> There are two general categories of stories. Event based plot and character based plot.
> 
> DA:O was mostly event-based plot. Most CRPGs, in fact, have event-based plots. Something happens, and you as the player react to it.
> 
> DA 2 is a character based plot. Every major character in the game has their own plot, their own series of goals, driven by their personalities. BECAUSE this is neither "normal" nor "expected" in a computer RPG, people are complaining about how "there's no plot, there's no story." Because the protagonist is often not the driving force pushing the plot forward or initiating reactions to events, many players fail to see how good the storytelling actually is.



The same might be said about the Mass Effect series. The difference is, when I played Mass Effect 2, I hadn't played the original, but I could still get an overarching plot that had relevance to the setting, and I could still connect with the main character and with the NPCs and their stories, which all seemed to mean something.

I'm now 20th level in DA 2. I still don't see any reason to care about what happens to Kirkwall. I still haven't identified with my origin-less character. My dialogue choices are mainly just to get me out of the conversation and back to fighting. I can't remember half the NPCs' names, and it doesn't feel like my character has a relationship with any of them, even the one he's 'romancing'. The DA:O characters that show up are generally my least favorites, and their presence doesn't seem to mean much other than just an excuse for yet another sidequest. The restrospective voiceover might be interesting, but it doesn't come up often enough that I can even remember what Varric is saying. If it were really character-based I'd expect to see interesting stories about the non-adventuring follk like those that permeated DA:O, but no such luck.

One example is Anders, who has been recycled from Awakenings at the expense of logic (his level has somehow gone down by 20). He had little personality to begin with, but throwing in a random spirit didn't seem to help, especially since every mage in DA 2 seems to be possessed by something. He clearly has some tie-in to the overall story about mages, but I can't bring myself to care at all. I'm rooting for the mages, but I hope he dies at the end (I'd dump him but I need his healing).

Frankly, I think most genre fans are able to grasp and enjoy character-based storytelling because it's been done in movies, books, TV, and in games. I suspect many of the people criticizing DA 2 played and enjoyed ME 2, which DA 2 is clearly trying to emulate (and that is not necessarily a problem). The problem is that the characters aren't interesting and don't make sense and the plot either isn't there or is so poorly presented many people don't get it. The only reason I'm playing it to completion (and the only reason I put down money for it in the first place) is out of respect for the original. Won't make that mistake again.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 20, 2011)

See, now Anders is one of my favorite characters (along with Isabela and Verrick). The character relationships, and the way that your actions affect them, is one of the things I like best about the game so far (I'm about 2/3 of the way through).

I was VERY disappointed when some of my decisions resulted in my main romantic interest leaving the game entirely. In retrospect, I think I would have been better off going back and deciding things a bit differently.

One of my favorite bits is where you have to help another of your companions romance someone else, and she's incredibly awkward at it. That was a fun little quest.


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## GreyLord (Mar 20, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> See, now Anders is one of my favorite characters (along with Isabela and Verrick). The character relationships, and the way that your actions affect them, is one of the things I like best about the game so far (I'm about 2/3 of the way through).
> 
> I was VERY disappointed when some of my decisions resulted in my main romantic interest leaving the game entirely. In retrospect, I think I would have been better off going back and deciding things a bit differently.
> 
> One of my favorite bits is where you have to help another of your companions romance someone else, and she's incredibly awkward at it. That was a fun little quest.




Absolutely amazing that she even was married previously with that much inaptitude.

I was thinking that particular quest was written by someone in Middle School, as that's about how they act in those situations.

It would have been much better if you suddenly find out the other guy is actually gay and he hits on you in the bar...then at least it may have been funny.

Things change a little when one grows up.  I personally couldn't believe they put something like that in an "M" rated game, as it seems it would appeal to someone of a lower age.  I could understand it in a T rated, or E rated game...but appealing to the kids in an adult game doesn't seem all that right.

I would hope most outgrew that stage when they graduated from Middle School, or the age of 14, and at the most were waaaay past that type of thing by the age of 18.


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## GreyLord (Mar 20, 2011)

On another note, they released a patch for the PC.  I've heard that if you apply the patch after you install, but prior to playing the game, it gets rid of the SecuRom stuff.  I haven't verified this yet, but it seems that it indicates this in the patch notes, and read some statements in the forums in regards to this.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 20, 2011)

Well, I guess I found it funny because she was clearly so emotionally immature. If her behavior had been more age appropriate, it wouldn't have been funny. I also liked some of the byplay between Isabella and Bethany early in the game. Isabella Merril dialogues are funny as well.


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## stonegod (Mar 21, 2011)

Not much to contribute that hasn't been said in the game's defense (and my wife agrees w/ many of the detractors). But, in summary: We both like it and have played it at least twice through, so it was worth the time/money.


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## fba827 (Mar 21, 2011)

yeah, i'm definately enjoying it so it's been worth it for me


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## Argyle King (Mar 21, 2011)

My main complain about DA2 is that I don't feel connected to the characters or the story at all.  As others have said, I just don't really have a reason to care about what's going on.  

Beyond that, for me,  the feel of the game is vastly different.  It's a nice game, but borrowing it from a friend and spending some time with it made me decide to not buy it.  (It's worth noting the fact that that the friend even allowed me to borrow it... he played the first game for nearly a year w/ a multitude of different characters before considering lending it out.)

I understand why some of the options were streamlined; however, in many areas, the 'streamlining' ended up being oversimplification in my opinion.  Likewise, I understand the reasons for the different art direction, but I don't care for it.  

Overall, my experience with DA2 has been a let down.  That amazes me because I loved the first game.  Suffice to say that I feel as though I was kicked in the dice bag after being falsely promised chocolate icecream.


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## Mallus (Mar 21, 2011)

I broke down and bought the PS3 version... I'm about six hours in and Cabiria Hawke, the up-and-coming, snark-loving stabby rogue, is about to meet Merrill on the mountain path.

So far I'm liking DA2 quite a bit. Having played the first one on a PS3, I don't mind the lack of an overhead option. The combat engine's been improved, though DA2 is less good as an action game than ME2 is as a shooter (which is pretty damn good). 

The more personal focus works for me. I'm more interested in seeing if, and how, Cabiria will remain friends with Aveline than in the Battle of Ostragar (after playing the great, and greatly melodramatic, City Elf beginning in DA:O I put the game down for several months because I was bored by the more generic fight against evil/big battle that followed).


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## drothgery (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm through act II so far, and mostly liking it, though any hints of the overarching plot that have leaked through into acts I and II are a bit confusing and spoilers I've seen about what one character will do no matter what have made it impossible for me to use that character unless I think my party would be in serious trouble (and after getting killed by the third wave of mooks in a sidequest or intermediate-level fight one too many times, I've given up and left the game at casual difficulty; I'm not going to micro-manage combat in an action RPG). Not a big fan your PC's love life, though.

[sblock=ooc]
Really, assuming you don't buy any DLC, you can romance...

Merrill, who looks like jailbait and is secretly crazy
Anders, who has voices in his head and is plotting the revolution
Fenris, who is openly crazy
Verric, who is a dwarf or
Isabela, who is a pirate and a thief

So Caitlin Hawke is sleeping with Isabela, and has done some things she probably wouldn't have if she were not. But really, if your PC is sane then I don't think you've got a lot of options here.
[/sblock]


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## Sutekh (Mar 22, 2011)

Ive over looked it , but was there a point to Flemeth being in the game? Or Zevran or Alastair?

They could of used any god/ supremely powerful being to get you from Ferelden to Kirkwall. Any. Flemeth felt like she had been thrown in for a cameo appearance. As did Zevran and later Alastair. I get exp from meeting Al? Awesome.  


The weird thing? Who the hell is Bethany? Is that the sister who dies if you arnt playing as the female? I felt no connection at all to her death.

Also, my tab key is now broken. Thanks DA2!


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## John Crichton (Mar 22, 2011)

If anyone is on the fence, amazon.com is selling this for $40 as a one-day gold box deal on all platforms.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 22, 2011)

Well, as I play through the game, I find I'm liking it more and more. The party member who I thought had left me in Act II, came back at the end of the act and helped save the day, and the formerly romantically awkward character eventually got over her shyness and is now married in Act III. Actually, some of the best cross-talk is between those two characters.


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## Mallus (Mar 22, 2011)

drothgery said:


> Not a big fan your PC's love life, though.



PC's should have crazy love lives. What PC worth his or her salt qualifies as "sane"?  Adventures who live in role-playing games are nuts practically by definition!



Sutekh said:


> Flemeth felt like she had been thrown in for a cameo appearance. As did Zevran and later Alastair.



Yup... they're cameos... although Flemeth's appearance is probably better thought of as foreshadowing.



> I get exp from meeting Al? Awesome.



You get XP for encountering more story and characterization... this is a Bioware game, remember?  



John Crichton said:


> If anyone is on the fence, amazon.com is selling this for $40 as a one-day gold box deal on all platforms.



Damnit! Note to self... always wait for the Amazon sale.


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## drothgery (Mar 22, 2011)

Sutekh said:


> The weird thing? Who the hell is Bethany? Is that the sister who dies if you arnt playing as the female? I felt no connection at all to her death.




Bethany (your PC's mage sister) dies in the opening sequence if you're playing as a mage (male or female); Carver (your PC's warrior brother) if you're playing as a rogue or warrior.[sblock=spoiler]Though you lose the sibling that survives the escape from Lothering later, either for a long time or permanently, depending on some choices you make during the game.[/sblock]


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## drothgery (Mar 24, 2011)

So, I finished my first play-through. Mostly liked it.[sblock]Because I'd seen incomplete spoilers about what Anders would do, I didn't trust him with many offensive spells, and he was kind of gimped as a healing / buff spell specialist. So when you get Bethany back for the final sequence, I had the party I wanted for the entire game, with all the NPCs with maxed out loyalty to my PC, in Bethany, Avaline, and Isabela. And with my archer rogue PC, that was clearly the best set up[1]; Avaline and Isabela as flanking partners in classic defender/striker mode, and the Hawke sisters hanging back and tossing arrows and spells into the fray. It was kind of amazing how much better things worked with a balanced mage (which neither Anders nor Merrill are good at being).

[1] Well, Fenris would have been more optimal than Isabela, but the SOB sided with Meredith and I never liked him; Merrill I liked but had a high rivalry score because it was impossible to convince her that she was in over her head; Varric I liked and trusted but two archer rogues in the same party doesn't work very well.[/sblock]


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 24, 2011)

I'm coming to the end now, and also sided with the mages (I'd be curious to know how many players sided with the Templars), but it was actually a harder decision than I expected, given just how prevalent the whole "abomination problem" is in the Free Marches. But the high enchanter was right, you can't paint all mages based on the behavior of some, even if one of them does engage in an act of horrible terrorism (in response to which, I have to admit, I showed inappropriate mercy).

I ended up "Romancing" three of the party members in the end: Isabella, Anders, and Merrill (which was unexpected given that I maxed out my rivalry with her).


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## JohnRTroy (Mar 24, 2011)

Remus, I liked that.  The game is doing a real good job of blurring the lines.

Drothgery (and to anyone), if you attempt to "gimp" a companion you think might betray you, it won't work.  If a companion becomes an opponent, all their skill trees are reset to a fixed default (and I think their equipment is replaced), at least according to the guidebook, so when gaming you should feel free to spec them out as you need to.  I figured I should post this so people don't try to metagame that kind of stuff.


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## drothgery (Mar 24, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> I'm coming to the end now, and also sided with the mages (I'd be curious to know how many players sided with the Templars), but it was actually a harder decision than I expected, given just how prevalent the whole "abomination problem" is in the Free Marches. But the high enchanter was right, you can't paint all mages based on the behavior of some, even if one of them does engage in an act of horrible terrorism (in response to which, I have to admit, I showed inappropriate mercy).




I suspect that siding with the mages and killing Anders anyway is probably the most popular option. It's what I did, anyway. If Meredith had given me the option to throw him to the wolves to satiate the mob, I would have done it. Also would have broken Bethany out of the Gallows and skipped town with her and Isabela if given the option. I mean, to side with the templars you have to go against either your own sister (unless she got killed) or yourself.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 24, 2011)

Yeah, really the only sitation where it would make emotional sense for you to side with the Templars would be if Bethany had died earlier in the game. Though clearly, had you romanced a mage, and particularly if you'd romanced Anders, the call would be much tougher.

Of course, morally, you'd be supporting genocide, which is why I think it's tough to justify siding the templars under any circumstances.


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## stonegod (Mar 24, 2011)

drothgery said:


> I mean, to side with the templars you have to go against either your own sister (unless she got killed) or yourself.



Actually, if Bethany is in the Gallows you don't _have_ to kill her.[sblock=Spoilery, though lots of that has been done already]My rogue hated blood mages and had seen enough that she thought a purge was needed, even if it meant possibly killing her sister. Before you get into the Gallows, you can opt to save some mages that surrender (Cullen likes this option).

In the Gallows, when Orsino talks about how he was going to use Quentin's research, you can point out that this is the of the *guy who killed your mother* which pretty much turns Bethany against him (and gets her on your side). Its written pretty well.

Oh, and then you become viscount [/sblock]


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## stonegod (Mar 24, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> Of course, morally, you'd be supporting genocide, which is why I think it's tough to justify siding the templars under any circumstances.



Oh, its definitely not an easy choice, but with all the Blood Mages popping up, even if the Circle didn't specifically do the Real Bad Thing, there's enough evidence that its pretty festered.

(And, you don't have to kill _everyone_, though you don't know that going in).

Still, I'd side w/ the mages more often then not (though someone blows even that support at the end....)


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## stonegod (Mar 24, 2011)

After a playthrough w/ each class, I got to say rogue is still the most satisfying (dual dagger). Mage is still pretty fun and strategic, but stabbing someone to death is just peach. Sword and Board is just too boring for me.

Can't comment on archery or two-handed; I enjoyed two-handed in DAO and it appears its still similar enough here.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 24, 2011)

Yes, the fountains of blood and dismembered bodies from my rogues single attacks were pretty cool, though my wife didn't think so. She was passing by as someone exploded and I heard say "ugh!" from behind me.

Next playthrough, I'll probably go warrior, but then also try siding with the templars to see the alternative ending.


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## drothgery (Mar 24, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> Of course, morally, you'd be supporting genocide, which is why I think it's tough to justify siding the templars under any circumstances.




It's tough to support either side, it's just that supporting the mages seemed less bad. Like I said, if given the option, my PC would have broken her sister out and skipped town (which Isabela would have been all for, so no problems with her love life). Or more proactively, moved into the Viscount's manor and told any mage or templar that thought that what was going on was crazy to follow her, let Orinso and Meredith's fanatics take each other out, and then move in to clean up what's left.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 24, 2011)

Yeah, I tried to just unilaterally make myself Viscount at one point, and it seemed there was some political support for ... something ... but it didn't go anywhere, or hasn't yet. Maredith of course immediately quashed my attempt to take over the post.

That's really my big complaint about the game, your choices are a bit too constrained at times, forcing options that didn't make much sense and foreclosing options that would have been more in character. It's like they had two or three big plot points they wanted you to get to, and didn't much care how little sense your options made for your character if they got you there.


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## stonegod (Mar 24, 2011)

Happens often in BioWare games, esp. Dragon Age ones. My Dwarven Noble in DA:O really should have been able to crown herself Queen (she had the crown and the edict to "appoint whoever she sees fit", but that wasn't allowed).


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## The Serge (Mar 24, 2011)

I've played BG, BG2, PS:T, and other old Bioware PC games and I love them. I played DA:O and love it.  And I've finished DA2 and I love it too.

While I have no problem with folks not liking something, what I've found with most of the complaints is consistency relative to experiences in the games I mentioned above.  Complaints related to things like linearity or lack of interaction with Companions (NPCs you can use in combat) are absolutely idiotic to me.  In BG2 what was going to happen at the end was going to happen at the end...  You just controlled how soon you got there and how powerful you were (not so much if you didn't do the tons of optional quests, really strong if you did).  You had to go to Brynnlaw and you had to go to the elven place.  You were going to fight Irenicus and you were going to kill him. 

As far as the whole managing inventory or making certain class selections for your Companions, while I love that sort of stuff as much as any other rpger, I always thought it was funny how much control I have over someone who's not an embodiment of "me."  In case no one noticed, you have complete control over Hawke's attire and inventory and you almost complete control over your Companions'.  However, that control is limited to who they are.  In DA:O, desite Wynne being a Healer and a staunch opponent of demons or blood magic, you could STILL make her a blood mage if you desired because you controlled her.  Such a choice really makes/made no sense in that game given the moral implications of the choice.  In DA2, you can't make Aveline something she's not.  She's a guard and a soldier and she will always be that during the ten year duration in Kirkwall.  

In any event, DA2 isn't perfect.  There should have been more choices about who Hawke fights, particularly towards the end, and I thought making every Companion (save Sebastian) bisexual was asinine, but I thought the game's story was far more personal than DAOs and that the graphics and fighting were much more kinetic and enjoyable.  

I'll be playing it again at least 3 more times.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 24, 2011)

Sheesh, here we're having a nice conversation and you go throwing around words like "idiotic." Ok fine.

To be clear, I love the game. And I understand that the narrative flows toward a particular end game or set of end game options. My point was simply that what those options were and how you arrived at them ought to have better taken into account who your character was and what kind of things a character such as yourself might at least have attempted to do. There were a number of points at which I just felt like the choices with which I was faced didn't match up with what a rational person, even in a fantasy world, might have done.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 25, 2011)

Ah, just finished playthrough #1 with the rogue. I was wondering when that artifact would make a reappearance!

I'll probably do another playthrough some time this summer, when I need a break from things.


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## LightPhoenix (Mar 25, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> Of course, morally, you'd be supporting genocide, which is why I think it's tough to justify siding the templars under any circumstances.




In general, yes, until almost every mage end-game whips out blood magic.  Then it's _really_ easy to justify siding with the Templars.  Of course, that could just be poor writing/battles.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 25, 2011)

LightPhoenix said:


> In general, yes, until almost every mage end-game whips out blood magic.  Then it's _really_ easy to justify siding with the Templars.  Of course, that could just be poor writing/battles.




Very true, but of course you don't know that when you have to make your choices. I was VERY disappointed in Orsinius, and was waiting for an option that would let me talk him out of his disgusting little transformation!

And in the end, of course Meredith has a bit of a possession problem of her own.


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## The Serge (Mar 29, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> Sheesh, here we're having a nice conversation and you go throwing around words like "idiotic." Ok fine.



I wasn't responding directly to your comments.  Or any on this thread, in fact.  I was responding to comments at the Bioware Forums.  It was not my intention to insult you (although I can understand why someone might feel insulted).



> To be clear, I love the game. And I understand that the narrative flows toward a particular end game or set of end game options. My point was simply that what those options were and how you arrived at them ought to have better taken into account who your character was and what kind of things a character such as yourself might at least have attempted to do. There were a number of points at which I just felt like the choices with which I was faced didn't match up with what a rational person, even in a fantasy world, might have done.



I think having this expectation of final results based upon who and what your character is is reasonable to a point; however, this is a large world with lots of other powerful people with strong positions on important matters.  To expect that your character's decisions should dictate things beyond a certain point is a little much.

That having been said, I do agree with you.  One of my pet peeves with the game is that -- regardless of who you side with or what choices you make -- you're going to fight who you're going to fight.  While I think the point the writers were trying to make is that both sides are completely nuts, your actions should have some of influence.  

For example, I played a pretty Diplomatic Mage who deplored Blood Magic, always tried to help everyone, and went out of his way to protect Templars who weren't pricks (and kill mages who were down right evil). SPOILER  



Spoiler



Given my actions throughout the game, there should have been an opportunity for me to talk Orsino down from the despair he was clearly feeling in the end-game to keep him from making the utterly foolish (and, frankly, quite out of character) decision he makes that forces you to fight him.  Sure, maybe he's destined to die, but if so, perhaps Meredith kills him after I keep him from becoming that flesh golem thing.


 END SPOILER

Still, I think the story's better than DAOs and, aside from some weird glitches (like certain DAO Companions showing up despite being dead in your game), I think it's a better product.  They just need to make sure that your choices have lasting impact in the proper places.


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## Mallus (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm probably midway through Act III. Just got the Merrill quest bug where she's mourning an NPC who hasn't died yet -- not sure the effect of it... I've read it can bugger her story arc sometimes.

As it stands, Dragon Age 2 is one of my favorite LGBT-friendly, faux-medieval splatterpunk soap opera simulators computer role-playing games. For all it's faults --take my reused assets, please-- it does a good job bringing it's world to, albeit completely-scripted, life. Better than the 1st one, where a lot of interesting detail got lost for me in the incredibly generic main quest storyline. I really cared about these ersatz, frequently blood-splattered characters, even if their dialog was sometimes totally at odds with their current situation/surroundings. 

The most critical thing I can say about DA2 is it's no ME2. I guess I really dig Bioware's new direction... or the current refinements made to their old direction. 

(the inventory and crafting can use *even more* streamlining!)


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## renau1g (Apr 5, 2011)

Did anyone become Viscount? I tried but then it just sorta died off and I ended up siding with the mages. I'm going to play through again as a mage and see if I can join the Templars at the end....

Just a quick link if you bought the game and don't have ME2:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/media-...-effect-2-no-piracy-required.html#post5519982


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## stonegod (Apr 5, 2011)

renau1g said:


> Did anyone become Viscount? I tried but then it just sorta died off and I ended up siding with the mages. I'm going to play through again as a mage and see if I can join the Templars at the end....



I did... twice! Keep doing what you're doing and you might pull it off...


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## fba827 (Apr 6, 2011)

renau1g said:


> Did anyone become Viscount? I tried but then it just sorta died off and I ended up siding with the mages. I'm going to play through again as a mage and see if I can join the Templars at the end....




I did, and I think the way I did it was ...

[sblock]
Side with the templars, but also when some mages come to you during the climax and ask to be spared saying they are innocent, you agree to let them turn themselves in so that Cullen likes you.
[/sblock]

anyway, i think that's what i did which got me the viscount status.


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## Remus Lupin (Apr 6, 2011)

I only just finished the game, so probably won't play again for a few months, but I'm definitely going this route next time. I'd be curious to know if it works if you're a mage.


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## stonegod (Apr 6, 2011)

[sblock]







fba827 said:


> Side with the templars, but also when some mages come to you during the climax and ask to be spared saying they are innocent, you agree to let them turn themselves in so that Cullen likes you.



You don't have to save the mages. Just side with the Templars at the end. [/sblock]


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