# Rank your Treks!



## Morrus (Jun 8, 2021)

Here's mine!

The Wrath of Khan
The Voyage Home
The Next Generation
First Contact
Abrahms Star Trek Beyond
The Search for Spock
Abrahms Star Trek
The Original Series
Deep Space 9
The Undiscovered Country
Picard
Discovery
Enterprise
Abrahms Star Trek Into Darkness
The Motion Picture
Insurrection
Generations
Voyager
The Final Frontier
The Animated Series
Nemesis
Lower Decks
I don't _think_ I've missed anything.


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## Horwath (Jun 8, 2021)

@Morrus, You missed JJ Abrams reboot movies.
Do not know was it intentional or just happy little sub-conscious accident?


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## Morrus (Jun 8, 2021)

Horwath said:


> @Morrus, You missed JJ Abrams reboot movies.
> Do not know was it intentional or just happy little sub-conscious accident?



Ah good point! I’ll add those in!


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## Horwath (Jun 8, 2021)

Also, don't know how to really compare movies to series, so here is my take on series:

1. DS9
2. TNG
3. TOS
4. ENT
5. VOY
6. TAS
7. PIC
8. LD
9. DIS

movies:

1. Wrath of Khan
2. First contact
3. Voyage home
4. Search for Spock
5. The undiscovered country
6. Insurrection
7. The motion picture
8. Generations
9. Startrek 2009
10. Nemesis
11. ST Into darkness
12. The final frontier
13. ST Beyond

edit: forgot The final frontier, what a shame...


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## hopeless (Jun 8, 2021)

I liked Star Trek Beyond I won't rate the Treks as that would put Discovery, Picard and Lower Decks at the bottom and I doubt that fits this rating system.
I'm not being an ass just making clear why I won't rate them since most I like them far too much to do something like that.
And I consider what happened to those three series a sincere shame given a decent storyline and someone not trying to crap over the canon would have made them so much better.


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## Bagpuss (Jun 8, 2021)

Morrus said:


> Here's mine!
> 
> I don't _think_ I've missed anything.




The Orville and Galaxy Quest?


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## payn (Jun 8, 2021)

*Series*:
DS9
TOS
TNG
ENT
.
.
.
VOY
*(I haven't seen Discovery or Picard yet)

*Films:*
1. Wrath of Khan
2. First contact
3. Voyage home
4. Search for Spock
5. The undiscovered country
6. Startrek 2009
7.  Generations
8. ST Into darkness
9. The motion picture
10. ST Beyond
11. Insurrection
12. Nemesis


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## LoganRan (Jun 8, 2021)

*Television*

1. Voyager
2. Next Generation
3. The Original Series
(The above are the only series I have watched in their entirety)

4. Enterprise
5. Deep Space 9
6. Discovery
(I've watched at least some of the next three series but did not watch all of the episodes, I honestly did not care for any of them)

I have not watched: The Animated Series, Picard or Lower Decks

*Feature Films*

1. Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. Into Darkness
4. The Undiscovered Country
5. Search for Spock
6. Star Trek (2009)
7. Nemesis
8. Beyond
9. Voyage Home
10. The Motion Picture
11. Generations
12. Insurrection
13. The Final Frontier

(I only consider the first six films to be good-ish or better, the rest are some where between "meh" and terrible.)


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## Gradine (Jun 8, 2021)

1. DS9
2. TNG
3+. Everything else


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## LoganRan (Jun 8, 2021)

I'm noticing a LOT of fandom for DS9. I only watched about half of the first season and gave up on it. I guess I might have to give it another go.

It always seemed a little odd to have a show called "Star TREK" on an immovable space station.


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## dragoner (Jun 8, 2021)

1. TNG
2. TOS (+all other series)
3. The Motion Picture (+all other movies)


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## payn (Jun 8, 2021)

LoganRan said:


> I'm noticing a LOT of fandom for DS9. I only watched about half of the first season and gave up on it. I guess I might have to give it another go.
> 
> It always seemed a little odd to have a show called "Star TREK" on an immovable space station.



An immovable station sitting next to a worm hole that can take a ship across the galaxy in a few seconds. Thats quite a trek! The first season is not great, even bad at times, like TNG. The series really takes off at the end of season 2. The best way to put DS9 is that it is the Federation through the galaxy's eyes, where all other series are the Galaxy through the Federation's eyes.


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## billd91 (Jun 8, 2021)

*Television*
TOS
DS9
Picard
TNG
Lower Decks
Discovery
Enterprise
Animated 
VOY
Honorable Mention: The Orville - surprisingly good take on Star Trekyness

*Movies*
Wrath of Khan
Voyage Home
Star Trek (2009)
Undiscovered Country
First Contact
Star Trek Beyond
Star Trek Into Darkness
The Motion Picture
Generations
Search for Spock
Insurrection
Nemesis
Final Frontier


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## LoganRan (Jun 8, 2021)

payn said:


> <snip> The best way to put DS9 is that it is the Federation through the galaxy's eyes, where all other series are the Galaxy through the Federation's eyes. </snip>



Thanks for that summation. That actually sounds really cool and definitely inspires me to give the show another look.

For all the talk of non-interference and the Prime Directive that pervades many Star Trek shows, it sure seems like the Federation can be a lot like "Galaxy Police: making your culture better by making it more like ours!" (Being an American, I will conveniently ignore the fact that my homeland can often be a lot like that as well...)


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## Zaukrie (Jun 8, 2021)

Bagpuss said:


> The Orville and Galaxy Quest?



Orville is really good, better as it goes more into Trek and less into comedy. And, of course, GQ is one of the best movies ever, let alone Trek movies.


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## ccs (Jun 8, 2021)

1)
The Original Series
Enterprise
The Wrath of Khan
The Voyage Home

2)
Deep Space 9
Voyager - but we have to ignore the 1st season or two....   
Discovery
Picard

3)
The Search for Spock
The Final Frontier
The Undiscovered Country
The Motion Picture


4)
The Next Generation
First Contact
Generations
Insurrection/Nemesis - tied.  Bleh. 


5)
Abrahms Star Trek
Abrahms Star Trek Beyond/Abrahms Star Trek Into Darkness - Both bleh


6) NA
The Animated Series - I haven't seen this since I was a small child.  I remember the animation being rather poor.  Beyond that I don't have a rating for it.

Lower Decks - Haven't seen this one yet.


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## aco175 (Jun 8, 2021)

For some reason, my wife likes the one with the whales and traveling back in time- I think #4 Voyage Home.  

Notice how these first few movies are like a D&D campaign where one giant adventure leads directly to the next without a break to craft or anything.


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## Morrus (Jun 8, 2021)

aco175 said:


> For some reason, my wife likes the one with the whales and traveling back in time- I think #4 Voyage Home.



It's such a good film. Not just a great Trek film, but one of my favorite films of all time.


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## Janx (Jun 8, 2021)

Series:

TNG
DS9
PIC
TOS
DIS
ENT
LD
TAS
VOY

DS9 really picked up its game, but TNG set it all up that the others from its era built off of.
I like Discovery, but it is so ADD fast paced that it loses the concept of exploring worlds and travelling in space itself is part of the pacing.

Voyager has enough wrong with it that Steve Shives has done a good job of covering in his videos.

Movies:

First Contact
Wrath of Khan
Undiscovered Country
The one with the whales
Search for Spock
NuTrek 1
Insurrection
NuTrek 3
Generations
NuTrek 2
Search for Spock's Brother
The Motionless Picture
Nemesis
Search for Spock was the first movie I went to as a kid specifically to see. I didn't go to movies as a kid. Or have a VCR. So it holds a good spot in my heart, but it's not the best.  The Nimoy directed films were the best TOS films (and he directed the even numbered ones per common contract with Shatner).

I like the NuTrek films, but they miss the essence of Star Trek in a way that probably makes Simon Pegg sad at night.

Insurrection got new respect after I saw Shives re-assessment of it.  Nemesis is hands down the worst.


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## Morrus (Jun 8, 2021)

Oh sorry I forgot to mention. No American Treks.


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## Arilyn (Jun 8, 2021)

Can't rate them all. 

1. Wrath of Khan
2. Voyage Home
3. Search for Spock
4. TOS
5 Picard
6 Undiscovered Country
7 Lower Decks
8 Middle seasons of DS9
9 The 2nd and 3rd Kelvin timeline movies
10 Discovery
11 middle seasons Next Generation

Have hopes for new Pike series!


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## Horwath (Jun 8, 2021)

LoganRan said:


> Thanks for that summation. That actually sounds really cool and definitely inspires me to give the show another look.
> 
> For all the talk of non-interference and the Prime Directive that pervades many Star Trek shows, it sure seems like the Federation can be a lot like "Galaxy Police: making your culture better by making it more like ours!" (Being an American, I will conveniently ignore the fact that my homeland can often be a lot like that as well...)


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## Benjamin Olson (Jun 8, 2021)

LoganRan said:


> I'm noticing a LOT of fandom for DS9. I only watched about half of the first season and gave up on it. I guess I might have to give it another go.
> 
> It always seemed a little odd to have a show called "Star TREK" on an immovable space station.




I was in the same boat until about 6 weeks ago when I went on a hardcore DS9 binge. It definitely grew on me, and easily holds up the best of the 90s Treks without the help of nostalgia. Like many Trek shows the first season was easily the weakest, with the the writers and producers still struggling to figure out what sort of narratives work with the setting, some of the main characters not really being sufficiently developed yet, and just a general lack of having figured out quite what they wanted to do with the show. Some problems get ironed out by Season 2, some take until season 3, but all that said even the early seasons aren't as rough as TNG of the beardless Riker era.

And yes, it is odd to have a show called Star Trek that minimizes travel, but A) they do actually move around for a fair number of episodes, they just don't have as many new planet of the week episodes as prior Treks, and B) it was mostly written by people who had already done a few years working on TNG and used up most of their best ideas for "visit a new planet" and "encounter a new subspace anomaly" plots, so had the show been more mobile it would have just made it more redundant.


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## Arilyn (Jun 8, 2021)

I agree that DS9 was the best of the new bunch. I feel it fell apart toward the end. After a lot of build up, The Dominion ended up being rather boring. The show gave us Jadzia Dax, however, who is one of my favourite Trek characters and the tribble crossover episode, which is amazing and so well done.


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## Stalker0 (Jun 9, 2021)

Morrus said:


> It's such a good film. Not just a great Trek film, but one of my favorite films of all time.



And lets not forget. Transparent Aluminum was such a cool concept.... that we finally actually made the damn stuff!









						Transparent Aluminium - Aluminium Oxynitride
					

Transparent Aluminium, also known as Aluminium Oxynitride (AION) is composed of Aluminium, Oxygen and Nitrogen,[(AlN)x·(Al2O3)1−x,]  Its properties allows i




					technologyinarchitecture.com


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## Stalker0 (Jun 9, 2021)

Janx said:


> DS9 really picked up its game, but TNG set it all up that the others from its era built off of.



This is a great description.

In terms of a show that I would watch now, DS9 all the way. But as the show that literally inspired a generation of engineers and scientists....you just can't deny the cultural power of TNG, or TOS of course.


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## Argyle King (Jun 9, 2021)

1. Next Gen*
2. The Original Series*
3. Deep Space 9
4. Enterprise**
5. Voyager
6. The Animated Series
7. Lower Decks
8. Picard
9. Discovery


*At various points, these two swap places. I think TNG is the overall better show, but it's hard to top some of the individual characters and specific moments from TOS. I'm impressed by how much the TOS was able to achieve with such a limited budget; in comparison, a lot of newer shows and movies have multi-million dollar budgets but fall flat.

**It was difficult for me to rate Enterprise. Right around the time it was picking up momentum, the show was cancelled. I believe that it may have had a chance to be bumped up to #3 had it been given another season. The darker intro for the mirror-verse episodes was cool.


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## Vael (Jun 9, 2021)

TV Series:
1. TNG - It's the one I grew up with, while I acknowledge other series may be better, TNG will always be my favourite.
2. DS9 - Probably the best one.
3. Discovery - It's been rocky show, they've yet to really land a season finale, but I've always enjoyed watching it, and am eager for the next season.
4. TOS - Somethings have not aged well, others are timeless.
5. Picard - Tempted to put this ahead of TOS, but can't for only 1 season. It'll depend on what happens in S2.
6. Lower Decks - This one is so hit and miss with me. When it misses, it's intolerable, but when it hits it's pretty great. Reverent and Irreverent at the same time, I have this show jumping all over the place.
7. Voyager - Voyager is intensely frustrating to watch. 
8. Enterprise - Nope. Hate it.
Unranked: The Animated Series - Only because I haven't watched it yet.


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## Dire Bare (Jun 9, 2021)

I love it all . . . even ST: Enterprise!

For me, Trek (mostly) keeps getting better and better, and while I truly do love it all, my favorites are the most recent series, or nu-Trek. Discovery, Picard, and even Lower Decks.

Some of the movies and series are hard to love (Nemesis and Enterprise, I'm looking at ya!) . . . but I've still watched it all multiple times, over and over again.

The best Star Trek movie of all time is most certainly Galaxy Quest! Followed by Wrath of Khan!


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## GreyLord (Jun 9, 2021)

I'm not sure...is it fair to rate a show that you haven't seen all the seasons of yet.  For example, with Discovery I've heard from many that season 3 is outstanding, but I have not seen it yet.  With that there...I suppose I could rate them as follows..

1.  Star Trek 6 - Undiscovered Country
2.  Star Trek 8 - First Contact
3.  Star Trek - The Next Generation
4.  Star Trek - Deep Space 9
5.  Star Trek - The Original Series
6.  Star Trek - Voyager
7.  Star Trek 2 - Wrath of Kahn
8.  Star Trek 4- The Voyage Home
9.  Star Trek 3- Search for Spock
10.  Star Trek 11 - Star Trek 2009
11.  Star Trek 10 - Nemesis
12.  Star Trek 12 - Into Darkness
13.  Star Trek 13 - Beyond
14.  Star Trek 5 - The Final Frontier
15.  Star Trek - Picard
16.  Star Trek 9 - Insurrection
17.  Star Trek - Enterprise
18.  Star Trek 7 - Generations
19.  Star Trek - Discovery
20.  Star Trek - The Animated Series
21.  Star Trek 1 - The Motion Picture

I haven't seen ANY of Lower Decks (it didn't strike me as something I'd enjoy...but perhaps I should give it a shot) so didn't include it in the rankings today.

Be Aware, these rankings could change...even daily...depending on mood, feelings, or just a change in the weather.


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## Jack Daniel (Jun 9, 2021)

1. TNG
2. TOS
3. ENT
4. DS9
5. PIC
6. DIS
7. TAS
8. VOY
9. LD


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## AnotherGuy (Jun 9, 2021)

LoganRan said:


> I'm noticing a LOT of fandom for DS9. I only watched about half of the first season and gave up on it. I guess I might have to give it another go.
> 
> It always seemed a little odd to have a show called "Star TREK" on an immovable space station.



I figured as much when you placed DS9 so low you must have given up in the first season, but I guarantee you this show honestly delivers unbelievably so and I too had my concerns regarding the immovable space station.


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## Janx (Jun 9, 2021)

AnotherGuy said:


> I figured as much when you placed DS9 so low you must have given up in the first season, but I guarantee you this show honestly delivers unbelievably so and I too had my concerns regarding the immovable space station.



Indeed.  Like TNG, DS9 delivers powerful episodes.  Not all the time, but, the entire cast had amazing arcs in away that TNG as an episodic series couldn't.  Nog's journey from scamp to Starfleet Officer, for instance.

Which is a stark contrast to virtually no growth arc for Voyager characters outside of Seven and the Doctor.  Which is why I rate that series near the bottom.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Jun 9, 2021)

Morrus said:


> Oh sorry I forgot to mention. No American Treks.




If there had been a British Star Trek, the original Enterprise would have been a painted telephone they found in the closet.


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## payn (Jun 9, 2021)

Janx said:


> Indeed.  Like TNG, DS9 delivers powerful episodes.  Not all the time, but, the entire cast had amazing arcs in away that TNG as an episodic series couldn't.  Nog's journey from scamp to Starfleet Officer, for instance.
> 
> Which is a stark contrast to virtually no growth arc for Voyager characters outside of Seven and the Doctor.  Which is why I rate that series near the bottom.



Its true, the character arcs they pull off are impressive in DS9. "Just my boyish smile." Julian "Not so boyish anymore, I'm afraid" Garak

It's also true that Voyager didnt pull off what DS9 did. Just returned to episodic monster of the week format for the traditional trek fans.


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## Janx (Jun 9, 2021)

payn said:


> Its true, the character arcs they pull off are impressive in DS9. "Just my boyish smile." Julian "Not so boyish anymore, I'm afraid" Garak
> 
> It's also true that Voyager didn't pull off what DS9 did. Just returned to episodic monster of the week format for the traditional trek fans.



Shives did a pretty good job summarizing the many issues of Voyager (might have some swearing?):

His core beef is that Voyager got hand-me down ideas like Q and the Borg, best exemplified by the fact that Garret Wang's uniform included Brent Spiner's shoes because they reused that.  Most the characters like Chekote got whatever skill or hobby they needed (now he boxes!).  The entire point of them destroying the Array was to stick around and protect the Ocompa, and then the next episode, they left them. Ensign Kim stayed and Ensign for SEVEN YEARS.

That about sums it up.  Did it have good episodes, yes.  But overall, doesn't hold up like the others.


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## the Jester (Jun 9, 2021)

*Films:*

First Contact
Wrath of Khan
The Voyage Home
Star Trek: Abrams
The Search for Spock
Beyond
Generations
Nemesis
Insurrection
Into Darkness
The Undiscovered Country
Star Trek the Motion Picture
The Final Frontier


*TV Shows (have only seen one episode of Lower Decks, so can't rate it): *

DS9
TNG
TOS
Enterprise 
Voyager
Picard
Discovery


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## LoganRan (Jun 9, 2021)

I have figured out why I like Voyager and most people in this thread dislike it: Voyager is like old-school DnD. The emphasis was on the current adventure not on long running story arcs or character development. Most people here consider those bugs while I consider those features (or at least not issues that cause me to automatically reject something)

Having said that, I disagree that Voyager characters did not develop. Compared to the other two Star Trek series I have watched (TOS and TNG), I would argue that there was more character change/development that in those two series. For me, though, character change/development simply isn't that big of a factor in my enjoyment of the show.

I'm still going to give DS9 another try based on the intriguing synopsis provided by @payn .


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## payn (Jun 9, 2021)

LoganRan said:


> I have figured out why I like Voyager and most people in this thread dislike it: Voyager is like old-school DnD. The emphasis was on the current adventure not on long running story arcs or character development. Most people here consider those bugs while I consider those features (or at least not issues that cause me to automatically reject something)
> 
> Having said that, I disagree that Voyager characters did not develop. Compared to the other two Star Trek series I have watched (TOS and TNG), I would argue that there was more character change/development that in those two series. For me, though, character change/development simply isn't that big of a factor in my enjoyment of the show.
> 
> I'm still going to give DS9 another try based on the intriguing synopsis provided by @payn



Voyager for sure had Trek brand feel to it, that DS9 bucked a bit. I totally get that appealed to folks. In fact, Voyager always felt like a reaction to DS9 not being classic Trek. Its popular to kick Voyager around by a lot of folks, but that doesn't mean its not a good show.


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## Janx (Jun 9, 2021)

LoganRan said:


> I have figured out why I like Voyager and most people in this thread dislike it: Voyager is like old-school DnD. The emphasis was on the current adventure not on long running story arcs or character development. Most people here consider those bugs while I consider those features (or at least not issues that cause me to automatically reject something)
> 
> Having said that, I disagree that Voyager characters did not develop. Compared to the other two Star Trek series I have watched (TOS and TNG), I would argue that there was more character change/development that in those two series. For me, though, character change/development simply isn't that big of a factor in my enjoyment of the show.
> 
> I'm still going to give DS9 another try based on the intriguing synopsis provided by @payn .



not quite.

It is true that people who like Trek, but hate some series or other, it's likely because it's not what they're familiar with.  New fans don't grok TOS.  old fans don't like Disco.

But Voyager's episodicness and hand-me downedness cripples it with choices the writers made that get mind-wiped by the next episode in problematic ways.  Like the time Janeway murdered Tuvix and everybody let it happen. Again, go watch some Shives videos where he lays out the case.  And ironically, he notes that was a GOOD episode of Voyager.  But literally nothing of Tuvix, who became part of the crew, is ever commented on or dealt with again.  And that was some jack up stuff.


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## Zardnaar (Jun 10, 2021)

Haven't seen all of it and some of it was so long ago it's not fair. 

1.DS9 season 1 is OK but it's consistent after that something lacking in all the rest. 

2. First Contact. Just a good movie. 

3. IV whales and 80'd Spock. Just fun. 

4. Abrams Trek. Kind of fun popcorn reboot. Didn't see the other two. 

4. Picard. Decent first season, something most Treks lack. Still early days though. 

5. STD. Season 1 and 2 were a bit meh but TNG says hi. Season 3 was actually quite good. 

6. TNG. Bleah early on and so much filler. 

 At the bottom is Discovery gave up after 6 or 7 episodes. 

 ST 1-6, TOS has just been to long since I've seen them I was to young or it's been 25+ years. Haven't seen Enterprise. Nemesis I thought was OK.


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## LoganRan (Jun 10, 2021)

Janx said:


> Again, go watch some Shives videos where he lays out the case.



I don't say this to be dismissive of your fondness for this individual but I have no interest in some random dudes opinions on....anything. I form my own opinions about things without regard to what someone else thinks.

Again, please understand I am not stating this as a judgement of your behavior and it is not meant as a personal attack against your or this individual.


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## Marc_C (Jun 14, 2021)

At this stage I only care about the following:


First Contact
Picard
DS9
The 3 reboot movies.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Jun 14, 2021)

Following is the inarguable product of logic, maths, and watching too much Star Trek in my life.

Note that in a combined list of shows and movies, movies lose out. Trek is always better when given room to breathe.

TOS. No question. Without TOS, there is no Trek. Iconic characters, iconic aliens, iconic plots. It's all there from the beginning.
DS9. This is a tough one to put in front of the next; started rough as regular Trek, but arguably the best example of being both subversive and true to "Trek," with the greatest character development.
TNG. I loved it when it aired (must watch!), but ... weirdly, it seems more dated than TOS. Still- Picard. Data. Wesley. Ha!
The Wrath of Khan. First movie entry; best movie. Has there ever been an argument on this?
ST: Beyond. Surprised? The Abrams cast is amazing, and this is the most "Star Trek" of the three nu-Trek movies. Yes, it has some problems (like all Trek movies except Wrath) but it's quite good.
Undiscovered Country. Can old dogs learn tricks? A really good movie that plays into the weaknesses of the aging cast.
Enterprise. So much wasted potential. Such a terrible finale. But some good episodes in there.
The Voyage Home. Whales!
First Contact. The only good TNG movie. Arguably, the only watchable one.
Star Trek (Abrams Reboot). Derivative? Sure! Breaks rules? Yep. Lens flares? You betcha! But great cast, and good time. That's ... something for a Trek movie.
Voyager. It was a Star Trek series. Year of Hell was good.
The Motion Picture. The 70s, man. More 2001 than Trek, it's an experience.
The Animated Series. Fun! But the animation ... it's tough today. After this entry, it gets pretty dire.
The Search for Spock. Not as bad as its reputation. Best of the "odds" of the TOS movies.
Going to the DMV.
ST: Into Darkness. What if we did Khan, but it sucked?
Getting a colonoscopy.
Generations. What if we wasted the cast of TNG, and Kirk? And it sucked?
Getting a root canal.
The Final Frontier. Is it possible to make a movie worse than the worst dreck of the TOS?
Getting into a car accident.
Insurrection. Yes, the TNG folks are happy to make worse movies than the Final Frontier.
Learning that the whole world is the Truman Show, but you're not Truman, you are an extra. Oh, and then you're hit by a bus, but you don't die, and you have years of excruciating rehab.
Nemesis.
No grade yet: Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks


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## LoganRan (Jun 14, 2021)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> Following is the *inarguable* product of logic, maths, and watching too much Star Trek in my life.



You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.   

(With apologies to Inigo Montoya)


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## Snarf Zagyg (Jun 14, 2021)

LoganRan said:


> You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.
> 
> (With apologies to Inigo Montoya)




Do I not understand inarguable, or do others not understand what is indubitably correct?

People can have wrong opinions about stupid stuff like politics and society, but you need to get yourself right on the important things like ranking your Trek.


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## ccs (Jun 18, 2021)

Janx said:


> old fans don't like Disco.



I don't?
Hmm, let me consider that for a moment....  Nope, I think there's room for improvement, but I've liked most of it so far.


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## Zardnaar (Jun 18, 2021)

ccs said:


> I don't?
> Hmm, let me consider that for a moment....  Nope, I think there's room for improvement, but I've liked most of it so far.




After rewatched my opinion of it has gone up. And season 3 which was good. 

 Early TNG is almost unwatchable, Voyager season one Mein Gott didn't make it past the 7th episode iirc. 

 STD at least is improving each season and the 1st season wasn't that bad with a decent pilot.


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## Janx (Jun 18, 2021)

ccs said:


> I don't?
> Hmm, let me consider that for a moment....  Nope, I think there's room for improvement, but I've liked most of it so far.



that's kinda taken out of context.  The people who didn't like any of the new shows (and it happens every time), it's tied to not being like what they're used to.


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## Yora (Jun 18, 2021)

*The Good:* Wrath of Khan, Deep Space Nine, The Undiscovered Country, First Contact, The Search for Spock, The Motion Picture.

*The Ugly:* The Next Generation, Original Series, Enterprise, The other TNG movies, The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier.

*The Bad:* New Trek, Voyager.

When I watched Deep Space Nine again two years ago, I discovered that not only is season 1 decent, season 2 to 4 are actually the best. It all declines very sharply ones stories about Bajoran and Cardassian politics are purged from the show to be replaced by explosions and pew-pew.


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## Ryujin (Jun 18, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> After rewatched my opinion of it has gone up. And season 3 which was good.
> 
> Early TNG is almost unwatchable, Voyager season one Mein Gott didn't make it past the 7th episode iirc.
> 
> STD at least is improving each season and the 1st season wasn't that bad with a decent pilot.



When it first came out, I truly loathed "Voyager." I kept watching it, hoping that it would get better, but the number of times that Janeway essentially shouted "RAMMING SPEED!" to get out of a situation just put me off. I also had issues with the "Borgwatch" nature of the later seasons. 

It was only upon later rewatch of the Seven of Nine seasons that I grew to appreciate the "nature of humanity" timbre of the Seven of Nine-centric episodes and that moved the show well up on my list. I have to think that if they had left the Seven of Nine character looking much like she did when she first joined the crew I might not have had such an initial reaction, but they needed their ratings candy and, I would say inarguably (with apologies to Inigo Montoya  ), that Jeri Ryan is a truly spectacular woman in addition to being a talented actor.


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## MarkB (Jun 18, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> When it first came out, I truly loathed "Voyager." I kept watching it, hoping that it would get better, but the number of times that Janeway essentially shouted "RAMMING SPEED!" to get out of a situation just put me off. I also had issues with the "Borgwatch" nature of the later seasons.
> 
> It was only upon later rewatch of the Seven of Nine seasons that I grew to appreciate the "nature of humanity" timbre of the Seven of Nine-centric episodes and that moved the show well up on my list. I have to think that if they had left the Seven of Nine character looking much like she did when she first joined the crew I might not have had such an initial reaction, but they needed their ratings candy and, I would say inarguably (with apologies to Inigo Montoya  ), that Jeri Ryan is a truly spectacular woman in addition to being a talented actor.



Yeah, I never got past Voyager's second season when it came out, but I've been watching a few episodes from seasons 5-7 recently on Netflix and they are enjoyable for the most part.

It still suffers from having only a couple of truly interesting characters (the Doctor and Seven of Nine), but the others have at least grown a second dimension by this point, and Neelix is no longer actively annoying.


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## Ryujin (Jun 18, 2021)

MarkB said:


> Yeah, I never got past Voyager's second season when it came out, but I've been watching a few episodes from seasons 5-7 recently on Netflix and they are enjoyable for the most part.
> 
> It still suffers from having only a couple of truly interesting characters (the Doctor and Seven of Nine), but the others have at least grown a second dimension by this point, and Neelix is no longer actively annoying.



To my mind, one of the best episodes in their run was the "Tuvix" episode, in which the typical transporter accident (Seriously, why do they use those things?!) combined Tuvok, Neelix, and an alien flower into a completely different entity. Temporarily got rid of two of the most annoying characters in one fell swoop.


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## Stalker0 (Jun 18, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> To my mind, one of the best episodes in their run was the "Tuvix" episode, in which the typical transporter accident (Seriously, why do they use those things?!) combined Tuvok, Neelix, and an alien flower into a completely different entity. Temporarily got rid of two of the most annoying characters in one fell swoop.



It was also one of the "morality" episodes that was truly great. At the end of the day they killed an unwilling participant to resurrect two of their friends...was a very intense discussion and some really good acting.


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## Campbell (Jun 18, 2021)

1. The Original Series by a country mile
2. Abrahams Trek
3. Deep Space 9
4. Enterprise
5. Picard
6. The Next Generation
7. Voyager
8. Discovery

As a veteran somewhat put off by the later half of the list because the characters just do not feel like people serving in the military to me, even a more enlightened military organization. Picard and Janeway as characters in particular do not feel like military officers to me. Sisko and Kirk feel like real commanders.


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## Ryujin (Jun 18, 2021)

Campbell said:


> 1. The Original Series by a country mile
> 2. Abrahams Trek
> 3. Deep Space 9
> 4. Enterprise
> ...



I would say that Picard definitely started out with the feel of a military commander, however, they softened his character a fair bit after the first season.


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## Zardnaar (Jun 19, 2021)

Is Enterprise any good? 

 Season 1 in particular if a show has a bad season 1 eg TNG and Voyager it's gellbom earth to get my wife to watch it b

 She like DS9, TNG was alright but we skipped most of season 1 &2. 

  Neelix is that alien cook on Voyager?


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## MarkB (Jun 19, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Is Enterprise any good?



I've seen a lot of comments that it improves a great deal in season 3 with the Xindi arc. Honsetly, I didn't find it that much of an improvement - the coherent plot arc helps, but it felt heavily padded out.


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## Ryujin (Jun 19, 2021)

MarkB said:


> I've seen a lot of comments that it improves a great deal in season 3 with the Xindi arc. Honsetly, I didn't find it that much of an improvement - the coherent plot arc helps, but it felt heavily padded out.



My feeling on the matter is that Enterprise started to get good right around the time they were told that they'd been cancelled.


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## Benjamin Olson (Jun 19, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Neelix is that alien cook on Voyager?




Indeed. But I prefer the description I encountered the other day in a quote from one of the producers: "He's a little hedgehog man who lives in space."


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## Zardnaar (Jun 19, 2021)

Benjamin Olson said:


> Indeed. But I prefer the description I encountered the other day in a quote from one of the producers: "He's a little hedgehog man who lives in space."




 Jar Jar Binks in every episode. 

 Complete turn off.


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## Benjamin Olson (Jun 19, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Jar Jar Binks in every episode.
> 
> Complete turn off.




Unlike Jar Jar, I find Neelix tolerable enough most of the time. My problem is that when he is annoying the writers seem to assume I have this great well of good will built up for him and that I'm still going to side with his viewpoint despite him behaving in an annoying, unlikable, or unreasonable manner.

But then for me the same applies to... say... Captain Janeway.


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## Mallus (Jun 20, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Is Enterprise any good?



Season 4 is good. It should have been season 1.


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## DollarD (Jun 21, 2021)

So here's my rankings:

The Wrath of Khan
The Undiscovered Country
Deep Space 9
Lower Decks
First Contact
The Voyage Home
The Final Frontier
The Search for Spock
The Next Generation
Voyager
The Original Series
Galaxy Quest
Star Trek (2009)
Generations
Discovery
Enterprise
Star Trek Into Darkness
Nemesis
Insurrection
Picard
The Motion Picture

I've not watched Beyond or The Animated Series, so don't really know about them.
I have quite a few differences from the Generally Accepted rankings, but that's probably due to differing exposures to Star Trek. The first Star Trek movie I watched was The Final Frontier when I was young, and it was on TV, so I have fond memories of the film. That started me reading Star Trek novels, which was the majority of my exposure at a younger age.

My first Star Trek series that I watched was Deep Space 9, and only sporadically, since it was only on one channel once a week, and if it clashed with my parents' TV watching schedule, I couldn't watch it. It's only in my varsity years that I could finally get into the rest, as well as the rest of the movies. Naturally I binge watched DS9 first, so I could get all the episodes I missed.

If you watched DS9 first, watching TNG afterwards seems like stepping into a much smaller scale of the same universe - and its more episodic nature and well-realised, but static, characters seemed like a step down. I suspect that's why I rate the TOS movies higher as well - the characters seemed to develop across them. First Contact is also high up there, since it felt like a development from TNG. 

Voyager felt like TNG, but with a bit added development of certain characters. So it's a bit higher up than most people put it. TECHNICALLY, I suppose I enjoyed it more than TNG, but there was a lot more potential that was unused. The Original Series... well, besides the fact that I've grown used to later iterations method of storytelling, after you've watched the movies, it feels a bit like you're watching undeveloped versions of characters you've grown to love. And Enterprise simply felt like uninteresting versions of the prior shows with flat characters... Until season 3, which was better, but a lot more depressing. I only really liked Season 4. 

With the new shows, I mostly like Discovery... Mostly. Season 1 was decent - I didn't mind the new Klingons, and they seemed to do a few new things. Season 2 was much better, and my favorite season, but they piled up a bit on everything revolving around Burnham. If they'd just gone on with that, it would have been lovely (Strange New Worlds, perhaps?) but that didn't happen. 

Season 3 was... Sigh. They seemed to want to put too much story into one season, and sacrificed characters for it. Instead of showing what happens to the characters, and letting me empathize and pulling me in, they rather cut that bit, and just showed the emotional reactions of the characters, and now I'm supposed to feel sad because Tilly looks sad? Instead of showing me what made her sad? Don't show me characters crying - show me what made them cry, and I'll be right there with you. I'm hoping Season 4 can push the ranking a bit upwards.

PIcard, however... I was so psyched! And then it was just... dull. I watched it. I'm hoping it gets better, cause the season 1 plot was plodding along showing setpieces and characters, then not using them, and I'm just... I'll keep watching. Please do better in Season 2 with pacing.

And then came Lower Decks. The feel and aesthetics of TNG, DS9 and VOY, mostly successful humour, fast pace and likeable characters (well, I don't like Boimler, but that's neither here nor there) all added up to my feeling that this was the Star Trek I've been missing. Maybe its because it was released after Picard, which left me with a sour taste, but it's up there for me. Whimsy and Star Trek, who knew they went together well? Maybe the Galaxy Quest guys, which is why I've inserted them in the rankings.  

The TNG movies... well, I've already mentioned First Contact. Generations I rather liked, but it felt a bit like two episodes mixed together, and just didn't quite gel. Nemesis was like they were trying to capture First Contact vibes, but went too dark. Insurrection was boring. But not quite as boring as the Slow Motion Picture, which was high concept and not much else. 

NuTrek movies, I rather liked ST09, which put a new spin on classic characters, but Into Darkness kinda felt like it was treading water, and no one knew where they'd like the series to go. So when new shows arrived, I just kinda put off watching Beyond... It seems polarising, so not sure when I want to go back there. 

So yeah. That's my rankings.


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## Mallus (Jun 21, 2021)

Note: items above the line are some value of 'good', below are some value of 'bad'. Also, I reserve the right to change my mind about any and all of these rankings immediately after posting them!

*Series:*
TOS
DS9
TNG
PIC
DIS
VOY
LD
TAS 
*____*
ENT

*Films:*
The Wrath of Khan
The Search for Spock
Star Trek (2009)
The Motion Picture
The Undiscovered Country
First Contact
The Voyage Home
Beyond
Into Darkness
Insurrection 
Nemesis
*_________________________*
Generations
The Final Frontier


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## Deset Gled (Jun 21, 2021)

*Movies (split into tiers):*
Wrath of Khan
Undiscovered Country
Voyage Home
---
Star Trek (2009)
Search for Spock
Beyond
First Contact
---
Motion Picture
Generations
---
Into Darkness
Final Frontier
Insurrection
Nemesis

Kinda surprised myself with how low I rated the TNG stuff as a whole.  My opinion of First Contact wavers a lot.  

*Shows:*
TNG
TOS
DS9
Voyager
Animated
Enterprise
Beyond

I have not seen Picard or Lower Decks.  I haven't seen all of Enterprise and have only seen about the first 10 episodes of Disco.  I'm pretty sure I saw all of the animated series when it was re-aired in the 80s.  I'm due to rewatch DS9 and Voyager some time.


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