# Exexcrucication - a NOBILIS PbP



## sophist (Mar 9, 2005)

Game underway ....
*IC:* HERE
*Rouges Gallery:*HERE 

players in no paticular order:

```
Jdvn1       - Baronet of Chivalry (True King of Derr'Degg)
```

did not post for a week or more:     see HERE
amy         - Marchessa of Innocence
lichtenhart - Duke of Keys
entsurpoi   - Regal of the Empty

corinthi          - gone
wandering soul (Duke of Shadows) - bowed out due to work

---------------------------------------

Sooo ... after losing access to the net for more'n a year, I find my account actually intact.

As I guess my warcraft game I started in not salvagable, I would be acually interested in doing Nobilis. 

Anyone interested in playing?

I assume that you a Nobilis rulebook.


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## Rikandur Azebol (Mar 9, 2005)

Hello mr Sophist.

I'm on my way of obtaining it. 

What type of gameplay do You prefer ?


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 9, 2005)

... Wow, so funny you mention that.  I was trying to convince a friend of mine to play Nobilis on here but she was like, "Oh, no one will play Nobilis."  Now she has a game to play?  Perfect!

I was going to get the book, but can't find a good price.  Any recommendations?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 9, 2005)

>.>  Yeah, that friend would be me.  Yes, I'm interested in playing!  Depending on things, but, this is me expressing interest.


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## khaibit2763 (Mar 9, 2005)

Count me in as interested in some Nobilis


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## sophist (Mar 10, 2005)

Hello everyone, good to hear you want to play.

We're enough to play, so let's start right away. I do appreciate much input,
but here is the basic idea: the Imperator will be largely unavailable, being so
heavily wounded be the Excrucicans, but not quite dead. You people happen upon
the scence, where it manages to slay the last attacker, all of its nobles dead.
You are chosen to be the next Nobles, but are given some time (say 7 days,
7 hours and 7 minutes) to clear up your mortal life.(and maybe scout for anchors)

I want to begin play at this point with still a good grasp on the mortal(?) life
of your nobles-to-be. However, you are probably not the run-of-the-mill mortals,
since you made your way to the scence of balltle inside the realm. In my mind,
the characters are flower mages, upper crust cultists or other semi-supernatural
mortals(?). Of course if you want a straight mortal and have some explaination
how you entered the realm, i am open to it.

I give you a wide leeway in what kind of power you are, but of course once you've
chosen, we need some undertsanding about the extension and the limits of the
comcept.
Realm design is mainly up to the players. Your Imperator is a wild one, what you
have seen of it was in the giant form of an ancient huntress, almost mortaly
wounded.

I think that is all you need for a start, I'll hammer out the rest this evening
at home.


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## sophist (Mar 10, 2005)

Rkandur I am not exactly ceratin what you mean by gameplay ... I intend to do a standard PbP game, 4-5 days a week, with more often in combat.

Jdvn1, I don't know cheap source of a rulebook, I otained mine for about 40 Euros in retail , but I don't regret a single cent of it.


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## Rikandur Azebol (Mar 11, 2005)

Aww. I apologise everyone, but I'm forced to retire from playing. Have fun guys.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 11, 2005)

When will you want to start?

I'm very new to the game and the system, so I might take a little longer to make my character.  Amy will probably help me a little, though.  I think I'm the newbie here, though.


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## sophist (Mar 11, 2005)

I will start playing as soon as there is one character done. Since the introductionary secnario is about saying goodbye to your mortal self (a sort of Prelude if you want), I can begin with those who are done with their concept.

For a beginning it will suffice to let me know your concept. Then I can prepare a more detailed description of how it all begins. This will entail a more detailed descrpition of the chancel so far, which can be changed as the players pursue their own visions.

I sense, however, that a bit more structure is needed here. So I will include a descrpition of the Regina(p.12)* as i see her and the chancel(p. 135 ff.) so far here. I will also give the campaign a title, that may help you even more. I will create an thread in the "Rouges gallery" forum, where above descriptions will be posted, and wher you can post your characters. We will discuss any changes to Imperator and Chancel here, while any changes will be edited into that other thread.

I am in no hurry although I had this idea for a Nobilis Story for quite some time and I am eager to try it out.

if you want more guidance for Character creation, don't hesitate to ask. I know that NOBILIS is a lot to take in, but I really think it's worth the while. There a some nice downloads on the Guardians of Order Homepage here at the bottom of the page which might prove useful.

Play contract: under construction
Diadora, the Huntress Beyond (imperator): typed in from my notes right now
Derr'Degg, the Green Kingdom above the endless Abyss(chancel): typed in from my notes right now

* all references are the NOBILIS rulebook.


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## khaibit2763 (Mar 11, 2005)

How dark are we taking this?

I was thinking about the power of cutting, and there are some pretty unpleasant associations with that word


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## sophist (Mar 14, 2005)

on an open forum, we can't have too much splatter ... you can have a dark character, as long as you don't turn traitor in the Valde Bellum. A problem could be if the others decide to play really pure guys and don't want much player conflict. OTOH, if the examples in the book the power of betrayal (which) has pretty unpleasant associations, too, could work with more "nice" siblings celestis.

I am sure we can explore some darker connotations without indulging in evil and corruption,
but i don't see cutting as that bad, so I don't see a problem here: because I don't require being only good and pure. I think nobilis is a mature game, so while we need to keep in mind being in "public", unpleasantness within certain limits is no problem.

My concept doesn't depend on the players good or evil, but to retain a certain interest in preserving creation, which in my opinion even the Dark has, because humanity doesn't equal creation as such.


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## sophist (Mar 14, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> Play contract,
> Diadora, the Huntress Beyond (imperator),
> Derr'Degg, the Green Kingdom above the endless Abyss(chancel).




These can be found here. 

Please post your characters there, too.


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## Corinthi (Mar 14, 2005)

Would the Power of Mystery be to cliche? I was considering the Power of Question, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around his domain. The Power of Quests is another possibility, as is The Power of the Forgotten. Diadora's writeup didn't give me a firm feeling of the sort of Power's she'd have. Although the Power of Wounds has a certain charm to it. Could be taken very dark, or very light depending on the spin.


Hardest part of Nobilis for me is to settle on a concept.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 15, 2005)

Corinthi said:
			
		

> Hardest part of Nobilis for me is to settle on a concept.



Yeah, I can relate.  I'm deciding between the power of Chivalry and the power of Space.  Or something else entirely.  This is my first character, though.


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## Corinthi (Mar 15, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Yeah, I can relate.  I'm deciding between the power of Chivalry and the power of Space.  Or something else entirely.  This is my first character, though.




Chivalry would be easier for me to visualize. Space is actually such a broad concept that it's hard for me to envision just how the Domain affects the Power. Since you're considering Chivalry, I'll scrap the Quests idea, and that could almost be a Secondary Domain of Chivalry. Plus I wasn't too invested in Quests anyway.

I'm actually leaning toward the Power of the Forgotten. Seems to mesh well with Diadora's writeup, and it's a domain that would be very easy to use, plus give some interesting potential conflicts with the Excrucicans. A concept that's Excruciated is not just forgotten, it never was, however it could be argued that excruciation is just a small step up from forgetting. If noone remembers does it really matter that it existed?


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## sophist (Mar 15, 2005)

I found that if you go and try out in your head how you could react to a variety of situations with yout realm, you get a better grasp of what it might entail. But that's only using the advice of Ianthe in the Book itself. One fascinating feature of Nobilis is that it rewards rereading the articles about play, much like it is rewarding to study aphoristic philosophy over and over.

More down to earth  , I think you don't need to worry too much in the beginning. I think it is best to start off somewhere and keep things changable at first. That was part of the reason I would include some prelude play before we get to stranger and wonderous stories.

The main difficulty, IMO, is finding a definition of domain that is neither too narrow or too wide. Maybe my training in literary criticism has made me overly sensitive here, but you don't need to worry. I view Nobilis still as a game, so interpretation and precision must take a back seat to fun, drama, and (to the extend I succeed at it) poetics.


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## Corinthi (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm running with the Duke of Forgetfulness. Do you want Character Creation in this thread with finished products in the Rogue's Gallery or all creation in the gallery?


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 15, 2005)

Corinthi said:
			
		

> Chivalry would be easier for me to visualize. Space is actually such a broad concept that it's hard for me to envision just how the Domain affects the Power. Since you're considering Chivalry, I'll scrap the Quests idea, and that could almost be a Secondary Domain of Chivalry. Plus I wasn't too invested in Quests anyway.
> 
> I'm actually leaning toward the Power of the Forgotten. Seems to mesh well with Diadora's writeup, and it's a domain that would be very easy to use, plus give some interesting potential conflicts with the Excrucicans. A concept that's Excruciated is not just forgotten, it never was, however it could be argued that excruciation is just a small step up from forgetting. If noone remembers does it really matter that it existed?



Which power is that for again?  

Yeah, Space is a broad concept, but I was thinking of not having a high ability there, so I'd narrow it quite a bit.  Like, it'd be more physical space, really.  Like I might be able to make someone's trip last a very long time or go pretty quickly.  If someone threw a baseball at me, it could only go halfway.  Or something.  A power of Chivalry would be bigger in Realm or Aspect or something, which is very doable, but I'm not sure how it'd turn out.


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## Corinthi (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, I'm likely going to be something like a:

Aspect: 1
Domain: 3
Realm: 1
Spirit: 3

With a minor gift and some fitting restrictions. A bit of Aspect or Realm wouldn't hurt. I'd weight one or the other heavily. If you go Realm, maybe include enough points to harvest a few Miracle points to help stave off the Fading aspect a bit. We're going to need to be proactive and a  bit aggressive because of Fading, so Aspect isn't a bad area of expertise. Lord knows Flower rights tend to tick people off.


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## sophist (Mar 17, 2005)

The power of the forgotten is fine with me. I even began to think what sprits of Forgetting could be like: the "blank" versus "ignorance".
Your stats look also ok for me.

I can also live with either physical space or chivalry. Chivary would be bit more fitting to my ideas, but if you want physical space more, do that.  But we need to limit it a bit. I find your example of creation/destruction of physical space interesting and balanced, but I think, since physical space is everywhere on earth, this would make your divinations powerful compared with the domain of the forgotten (which could still see a lot).

I want you to think about the following:
To which group of semi-supernaturals did your character belong (e.g. the Cleave of Botanists, the Cammora, a descentant of a Ymaera)? And how did you like your groups outlook on the world? What relations were there to "normal" people? Who are your closest relations? Do you have unfinished buisness in the world? If not, is there something you want to see and/or experience before your Noble duties take over? Or do you want to do it specifically as Noble?

If you an idea how to answer those questions, along with a rough stat set, post both to the rouges gallery. We discuss all details here, but you can change your post there at any time.
Given the complexity of NOBILIS, I set the deadline to Monday. Really think you can finish your character in broad strokes by then, so that play can commence.

I updated the player list above, setting amy in brackets as she didn't post here for a while.


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## Corinthi (Mar 17, 2005)

I take it you'd like us to have belonged to one of those groups? I hadn't been thinking along those lines, but a link to the Cammora could be very entertaining.


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## Lichtenhart (Mar 17, 2005)

Is there a spot left? I'd like to have a chance at Nobilis


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 17, 2005)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> Is there a spot left? I'd like to have a chance at Nobilis



Start making a character!      You'd make four, so I'd guess sophist would be okay with that.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 17, 2005)

I'm still here.  I'm just caught up in finals at the moment.  Give me a few days and I should be able to get back to you.

Oh, by the way -- I'm hoping to play the Power of Innocence.


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## sophist (Mar 18, 2005)

Ok, Amy, I haven't thought of exams, of course take your time for that.
Innocence is fine with me. I can already think of way to tie that thematically
to my plot.   

Corinthi - if you can think of a way that your character made his way to the
chancel and the battlesite without having a supernatural cue, that's ok with me.
As long as your concept maintains a minium of versimilitude, it trumps my ideas.

Lichtenheart, you are welcome to play, all you need to know is somewhere in this
thread: links to NOBILIS downloads on the GOO website, the link to the "rouges
gallery" thread etc.
I will accept a maxium of five players. Generally, IMO, *up to a ceratin limit*,
the more players the more fun. Responsiblity for ideas is divided upon more
shoulders, more player interaction is possible etc.
I've run a short NOBILIS thing for two players as yet, but with my long GM/DM
expericence I think I can handle more than two as a HG.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 18, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> Ok, Amy, I haven't thought of exams, of course take your time for that.
> Innocence is fine with me. I can already think of way to tie that thematically
> to my plot.




'kay, good to hear.  ^.^  In case you wanted to know what my interpretation of my estate is, it involves, basically, purity and idealism.  Innocence can make a senator less corrupt and have a more idealistic view of things, can clean up a polluted river, and can put the seal back on a used jar of peanut butter so it looks like it's never been opened.  Resonates heavily with youth.


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## sophist (Mar 20, 2005)

I am already anxious to find out how the submitted characters are ...

I think we need at most three day to iron them out to a point where they can play in the prelude/prologue. I will use that time to brainstorm how the preludes will go. They stories are taking form, too, I must use caution not to do too much, or this campagin will take a loooong time.

I can oly urge you to take initiative, to customize chancel/imperator, your castle in chancel etc. set goals independently from my ideas.

This is probably also the points where it would be good to ask if you all would want to play in scenes, where your character isn't present, and if you son't mind if the other players get that kind of influence?


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## khaibit2763 (Mar 21, 2005)

*sorry guys*

job taking up way too much of my free time,  love those fifty hour weeks ;>  It looks like I'm gonna have to drop


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## Lichtenhart (Mar 21, 2005)

What do you think of the Power of Keys?

I see it as a mix of exploration, curiosity, thirst for freedom, secrets, passion for unsolved puzzles and going beyond boundaries. Do you think it could suit your idea of Diadora?


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## sophist (Mar 21, 2005)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> What do you think of the Power of Keys?
> 
> I see it as a mix of exploration, curiosity, thirst for freedom, secrets, passion for unsolved puzzles and going beyond boundaries. Do you think it could suit your idea of Diadora?




Most definitly.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 22, 2005)

I dropped my sheet off at the Rogues' Gallery, just to note.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 22, 2005)

My sheet's there too, now.  Since this is my first character, some feedback (especially if I made any mistakes) would be nice.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 22, 2005)

Say, Corinthi -- I'm not sure if you know, but the Unfathomable Imperator property duplicates your "not remembered by anybody" ability, so it may be a bit redundant.  I was going to do Unblemished Guise, myself, until I realized it, so.


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## sophist (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok, i will update the thread now. And as soon as I formed a picture of your chars in my head(tomorrow), I will post - as the begining of the IC thread - what Diadoras herald says to you, before you're off to your preludes. I learned from a game I play on the Order of the Stick site, that inserting the characters name (& title) at the top of each IC post is very useful.

I can probably NOT post over easter. I am definitly back on the 29th, but before that I'd depend on friends, so it's unlikely. I wanted to do more this week but all of a sudden I was given deadline pressure (sigh).


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## sophist (Mar 23, 2005)

Now that I took a good a good look at your characters, they are  good so far.

Amy and Jdvn1, your work is impeccable (any comments below don't change that), it's what i need to design your stories.

Amy- at the start, you don't have these anchors yet, but choosing your bond now is ok. We can incorporate the anchoring into your prelude, if you want to, or you get them them in the downtime after that.
A restriction of being afraid of the dark is probably not optimal in this campagin, on the other hand if youi are willing to endure difficulties, it's fine with me.  

Jdvn1 - I have no comments here.

corinthi - I need a bit more background to hook on, but your post says "coming". otherwise only your bonds miss. I will rule by tomorrow if your gift is already coverd by the Impatrix Legacy, but that would not invalidate _subtle_ or _uninspiring_. Anyway, I think I understand your concept, so you are 90% done.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> Ok, i will update the thread now. And as soon as I formed a picture of your chars in my head(tomorrow), I will post - as the begining of the IC thread - what Diadoras herald says to you, before you're off to your preludes. I learned from a game I play on the Order of the Stick site, that inserting the characters name (& title) at the top of each IC post is very useful.
> 
> I can probably NOT post over easter. I am definitly back on the 29th, but before that I'd depend on friends, so it's unlikely. I wanted to do more this week but all of a sudden I was given deadline pressure (sigh).



... Well, I'm okay with starting after Easter.  No need to rush into the game if your schedule went sour.

And Lichtenhart hasn't posted a character, so.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> Jdvn1 - I have no comments here.



Cool.  Made a change, by the way, but I don't think it's huge.

Edit: Well, I dropped a Spirit, so I also lost an Anchor.  I'll find out how this plays in-game, I guess.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Edit: Well, I dropped a Spirit, so I also lost an Anchor.  I'll find out how this plays in-game, I guess.




Remember that this interferes with your Light Touch limit, by the way -- you can't take it anymore because your Spirit is lower.


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## Wandering soul (Mar 23, 2005)

*Room for one more?*

Do you have any more openings to join the game?  I have the rulebook, but have never actually found a group that could handle the style and content of the game...


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> Amy- at the start, you don't have these anchors yet, but choosing your bond now is ok. We can incorporate the anchoring into your prelude, if you want to, or you get them them in the downtime after that.




Either way is fine, I think.  I may yet still have a few things to tinker with them.



> A restriction of being afraid of the dark is probably not optimal in this campagin, on the other hand if youi are willing to endure difficulties, it's fine with me.




Hey, enduring difficulties builds character, and thus generates MPs.  >.>  Also, "afraid of the dark" means literal, physical darkness, so it should be remediable.  But if it gets to be too much trouble I can always just try to get over the fear in-game, thus removing the Restriction.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Wandering soul said:
			
		

> Do you have any more openings to join the game?  I have the rulebook, but have never actually found a group that could handle the style and content of the game...



Well, sophist isn't online right now, but previously said:


			
				sophist said:
			
		

> all you need to know is somewhere in this
> thread: links to NOBILIS downloads on the GOO website, the link to the "rouges
> gallery" thread etc.
> I will accept a maxium of five players. Generally, IMO, *up to a ceratin limit*,
> ...



So I'd recommend making your character anyway -- and do it pretty fast (since we intend to start soon).


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Remember that this interferes with your Light Touch limit, by the way -- you can't take it anymore because your Spirit is lower.



I believe you're thinking of Uninspiring.  I don't think Light Touch has that restriction.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Hey, enduring difficulties builds character, and thus generates MPs.  >.>



That reminds me of Calvin and Hobbes.

And makes me think that Character would be a good Estate.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> I believe you're thinking of Uninspiring.  I don't think Light Touch has that restriction.






			
				Nobilis Setting Book said:
			
		

> LIGHT TOUCH (A LIMIT OF SPIRIT)
> Gives 1 point per Spirit level




Though I guess if you _want_ you could take it for no benefit.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Though I guess if you _want_ you could take it for no benefit.



Benefits are for pansies.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> That reminds me of Calvin and Hobbes.
> 
> And makes me think that Character would be a good Estate.




I used to have a big list of really cool Estates, which I think included: Doors, Horizons, Faith, Unity, Speed, the Unexpected, Etiquette, and Cities.

However, top two on my list of Estates that I really want to play if I ever play another Nobilis game are Edges and Luck.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

By the way, Sophist, I forgot to ask.  Would you like us to do up a list of sample Domain miracles?  For e.g., "A Lesser Destruction of Innocence can make someone jaded and cynical, corrupt a rainforest by removing its resistance to pollution, or make someone mentally mature."  Or something.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> I used to have a big list of really cool Estates, which I think included: Doors, Horizons, Faith, Unity, Speed, the Unexpected, Etiquette, and Cities.
> 
> However, top two on my list of Estates that I really want to play if I ever play another Nobilis game are Edges and Luck.



Fine, I'll keep Character for myself, then.  I need to play a high Domain character after this, anyway.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Fine, I'll keep Character for myself, then.  I need to play a high Domain character after this, anyway.




Do you have a hold on what your Chivalry miracles are?


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Do you have a hold on what your Chivalry miracles are?



I _think_ so.  My ghost miracles are easy, at least.  My more powerful miracles would be more substantial, but they probably don't get too powerful due to a low Domain.

Why, do you have any recommendations?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Why, do you have any recommendations?




Not per se, but it's a good idea to know what you might be able to do at every level.  Incidentally, did you read the Sample of Play?


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Not per se, but it's a good idea to know what you might be able to do at every level.  Incidentally, did you read the Sample of Play?



Um, not really.  I think I may have a year or two ago.  Do you have a link?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 23, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Um, not really.  I think I may have a year or two ago.  Do you have a link?




I thought I linked you last night, dear.  But here: Nobilis Sample of Play.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> I thought I linked you last night, dear.  But here: Nobilis Sample of Play.



Hey!  Hey!  I lose links all the time.  Various computer accounts.  I need a source that I can access from any computer, hence why I tell you to email me.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 24, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Hey!  Hey!  I lose links all the time.  Various computer accounts.  I need a source that I can access from any computer, hence why I tell you to email me.




I pout.  So, Mister Über-Realm, what traits do you want to add to the Chancel?


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 24, 2005)

Well, I'd like other input on this too.  Especially since I don't know what everything does.  Sophist -- how many points to we have to work with?


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## Wandering soul (Mar 24, 2005)

*Domain choices*

Folks,   as (potentially) the last joiner, I'd like your input on possible domain choices for my character.  The follow are the areas that strike me as interesting possibilities, but would you be particularly for or against any of them from a group point of view.  Obviously, some are harder to define than others...

Deception
Discord
Domination
Faith
Hope
Mischief
Persuasion
Shadows
Soldiers
Vice

Would appreciate your thoughts before I go to the trouble of creating a full character.


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## sophist (Mar 24, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Hey, enduring difficulties builds character, and thus generates MPs.  >.>  Also, "afraid of the dark" means literal, physical darkness, so it should be remediable.  But if it gets to be too much trouble I can always just try to get over the fear in-game, thus removing the Restriction.




This works fine for me.

A list of Domain miracles really helps me to get a better grasp on your character and his/her Vision of the Domain. But each of you has included something in their concepts, so that I have an image of your character formed and ready. A List of miracles would detail further and would help designing concept clashes.  But it is not nessesary.

BTW, if you feel like writing little stories, thought records et al. you can post them to the Documents thread in RG, too.

I will start the IC thread anyway, I think what the herold has to say is interesting enough. Just remember he is taling from his own POV.

Wandering Soul - I cannot say if I manage to do exactly the style of NOBILIS you want, but I have a vision on what it all means and how to use the games elements and concepts. I will include you into that first IC post after I understand your concept in the context of where I want to lead this game (if the players don't have other ideas   ).
The least fitting from my perspective would be Domination and Faith, but if you REALLY want those, I can find a way.


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## sophist (Mar 24, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Well, I'd like other input on this too.  Especially since I don't know what everything does.  Sophist -- how many points to we have to work with?




The sum of the characters realm score is 1+0+4=5 the cost so far is 3 points. That leaves you 2 pts. to play with.

Plus anything from lichtenhart and wandering soul. Since Jdvn1 has the highest realm score, I'd say his chancle ideas have a CERTAIN priority, but it is best if all players are happy with the choices.

If, for example, wandering soul make a True King also, he should have an equal say in Chancel design, too. But I am confident you will be able to sort everything out and all will be content.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 24, 2005)

Wandering soul said:
			
		

> Discord
> Faith
> Hope
> Mischief
> ...



I think in conjunction with what we have already, these clash the least.  Pick whatever you want, though.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 24, 2005)

Just wanted to link the IC thread.

I guess that means we're starting.


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## Wandering soul (Mar 24, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> I think in conjunction with what we have already, these clash the least.  Pick whatever you want, though.



 I'll go for Shadows.  Will write up and post over the w/end.

In terms of the realm score for my character, unless my chancel can be considered to be inside any shadow (which I doubt, as I assume we will all be sharing our Imperator's chancel), I'll go for a realm score of 0, and as such, would not expect to have any input of the chancel definition.


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## Lichtenhart (Mar 24, 2005)

Shadows I like a lot. It's versatile and makes us all a bit more effective, 'cause you're probably be willing to go where Chivalry and Innocence wouldn't. 

My char is almost done and I'll have Realm 1 so you can start to think about it. And Wandering Soul, since we all have our own castle inside the Chancel, you could have yours made or shrouded in shadows. Or an underground fortress.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 24, 2005)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> Shadows I like a lot. It's versatile and makes us all a bit more effective, 'cause you're probably be willing to go where Chivalry and Innocence wouldn't.



What, it's not Chivalrous to sneak around and hide in shadows?  Yeah, no.



			
				Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> My char is almost done and I'll have Realm 1 so you can start to think about it. And Wandering Soul, since we all have our own castle inside the Chancel, you could have yours made or shrouded in shadows. Or an underground fortress.



Oh, yeah, good idea!  The more points for me to work with, the better.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 24, 2005)

So are you two almost done with your characters?  Not much is going to happen this weekend, I think sophist said he'd be gone.


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## Wandering soul (Mar 25, 2005)

Posting draft of mine now.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 25, 2005)

Wandering Soul -- Limits and Restrictions in Nobilis don't do what you normally think of, i.e., give you a "negative" CP balance.  You can only ever spend 25 CP on character creation.

What Limits and Restrictions _do_ is, they give you more MP in order to fuel your miracles.  A Limit gives you 1 permanent MP (or however many as defined in the Limit) to add to your permanent MP total.  A Restriction gives you 1 temporary MP whenever your Restriction comes up and screws you over.  Limits apply all the time, whereas Restrictions are more situational.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 25, 2005)

Also, your design is wrong.  The background is based on your Code and it's supposed to have two flowers, one based on your Estate and the other on yourself.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 25, 2005)

... Also, could you format (or unformat) so it's a little easier to read?


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## Wandering soul (Mar 26, 2005)

That will teach me not to try and do cc from memory  

Hopefully the character is correctly balanced now. Will have to find some more references for flower symbology to get the design right though.  Would appreciate any suggestions, given the character definition..?


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 27, 2005)

The book has some stuff, but I used these:
http://www.dutchflowerlink.nl/engels/Lessons/symbolic_christian/symbolic_flowers.htm
and
http://www.craftassoc.com/flowers.html

And... I'm not sure.  The Aquilegia is the flower of unreliability, so I can see how it might be related to shadows, since shadows are insubstantial.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 27, 2005)

Oh, apparently, olive trees have flowers too.  I don't know what it's called buy maybe you could be like, "The Olive Flower, Flower of Protection" since it's in character for you.

Other things that might be a part of your personality...
Anemone, flower of forsaken
Primula, flower of hope
Bluebells, Flower of Constancy
Magnolia, Flower of Perseverence


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 27, 2005)

By the way -- I was just wondering if you loved or hated Abdul El'Quarad?  I only mention because it seems like you'd have to hate him, but I'm not sure where you'd have previously met him to have hated him.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 29, 2005)

I have 3 points to work with, counting one from the Lichtenmeister.

I'm currently thinking:
+6 Borderguard Power 2
+1 Borderguard Penetration 1
+1 Two-way gateway to a Chancel with allied Imperator/indifferent Powers
-4 Primary Target
-1 Pleasant Landlord

But I'm also considering Extrapolative Technology and... some other stuff.  Any ideas?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Mar 30, 2005)

Personally, I'm thinking a landlord _might_ be a bad idea.  But hey, you're the True King.


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## sophist (Mar 30, 2005)

So we're getting off the ground.
I welcome the Marquis of Shadows, while the powers of the Forgotten and Keys are still on their way. I'll keep things open so that you all can join later.

It is all well and fine that you talk among the characters. Action is much player-driven now, as YOU say where your characters go. So today, i'll only post a short description of Derr. I hope you don't mind if use a roman villa design for this greek polis.    After all that Platon, Aristotleles, Foucault and Nietzsche, I suddenly realized that greek architecture was never really the topic.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 30, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Personally, I'm thinking a landlord _might_ be a bad idea.  But hey, you're the True King.



Any details as to why?  With only a -1 Landlord, he's listed as being friendly, and he also only has as much power as having a 1 Realm.  It's not like he'll get too much power.  Even if he was a -3 Landlord, I'd still outrank him.

Also: Any ideas with what to do with the Chancel?


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 30, 2005)

Here's my rationale, for kicks.



> +6 Borderguard Power 2



I wanted some defense-type stuff with this, but I think all this gives us is the ability to know when something's amiss.  Borderguard Power doesn't get useful until 3, but that might be too much of an investment.  It's pretty pricey.  I don't know where I'd get the points from.  After Power 3, though, it's all about Penetration.

Although I thought that:







> +1 Two-way gateway to a Chancel with allied Imperator/indifferent Powers



Could serve as a useful defense too.  Especially against:







> -4 Primary Target



And maybe a helpful extra Landlord:







> -1 Pleasant Landlord



Could give us good ideas without getting in the way.


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## sophist (Mar 30, 2005)

I'll leave any further chancel design in your hands, i will only edit the final version in the RG tread and speak up if something is out of the question. but I don't exspect that.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 1, 2005)

Say, has anyone seen Lichtenhart?  I wonder where he is...


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## sophist (Apr 1, 2005)

Well
lichtenheart was online yesterday, but his character is not yet posted.
corinthi hasn't posted here for quite some time ...

the central cast are David and Alyra and _Mamba_ so far. Wandering soul has posted IC at least once, so I hope he will continue, too.

Sigh. I guess that's internet games for you. 

I will wait until Monday the 4th before I must consider that probably my english was too bad for some ...  Then i must decide what to do about the consistent absence. Of course, it is within the rights of them to stay away, but it'd be fine to know if they still join or not. I've been stalling a bit in the hope of that gives lichtenhart and corinthi a bit more time. Next week I will inquire deeper, over email.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 1, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> I will wait until Monday the 4th before I must consider that probably my english was too bad for some ...  Then i must decide what to do about the consistent absence.




Actually, I was going to suggest that a "post at least every *n* days, unless absence notification has been given" clause be put in the play contract...


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 1, 2005)

You could email them earlier than next week -- maybe they forget to check on the game or something.


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## Lichtenhart (Apr 4, 2005)

Sorry for my disappearance, it's no real excuse but a school project has absorbed me more than I thought it would, and I couldn't find time to work on my character. I'm posting the sheet shortly, and the background and first IC post tomorrow as I come back from school.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 4, 2005)

sophist, I'm trying to decide if Borderguard Power 2 is actually useful for anything that Realm 4 doesn't already give me.  It's Borderguard is described as attacking hostile intruders as long as necessary, but it says that a Level 2 miracle will inform authorities of a threat.  Is that just an example of a Level 2 miracle (ie it actually can attack things two with a sort of "Chancel Aspect" of 2), or is that all it can do (meaning Borderguard Power might not be useful until Power 3 or 4, which is a _lot_ of CP)?  The book seems vague, so I'm thinking that this is (among most things in the game, actually), is a HG call.

Lichtenhart - can't wait to see your character!  The more we have, the better chance we have at survival (and I'm banking on that 1 Realm  )


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## Lichtenhart (Apr 4, 2005)

Should I post the stories of my anchors now? Simon would celebrate the rite of servant on them only if they were willing. Is that supposed to happen in game or not?


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## sophist (Apr 5, 2005)

Amy, updating the play contract is agood idea!

lichtenheart, your character looks fine, although I can have a real close look only later at home. You don't need to choose your anchors now. You can do that IC/OOC during/after your prelude, just as you wish. During the prelude, you do have all the perks of being a NOble, but the down sides are not yet in effect.

Jdvn1, borderguard says that they have realm miracles up to their level. I'd interpret this the following way: at level 2 they can confound invaders with ghost miracles. itr is probably diffucult to disbelive everything you see. while it is true that lesser divinations are for free for you, if the borderguard has them, they will report more accuratly and quickly since they see more (and potentially even physically hidden things) of their enemy and will know exactly where you are within the chancel so that they can reach you in almost no time. Plus, the higher the Borderguard level, the higher I will set their "aspect". Although even an Aspect 0 or 1 power will sooner or later get through a level 2 guard, I'd rule only a power with at least double the level in Aspect will get by the guard "just like that". The higher you go with the level, the more time will you have for your reaction. Someone with Aspect<=BG level would probably even need one or two miracles ...

in truth, when making up Derr'Degg I hoped the players would choose "Boderguard", but since I already put magic in, I didn't want to inflate the cost too much. that means taking BG will make the barbarians a whole less hostile to you.


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## sophist (Apr 5, 2005)

just as I was about to update IC, I see on my watch that I have to go: have to buy stuff before all stores close.    Will update tomorrow - promised.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 5, 2005)

So, to clarify, while BG offers the divination miracles, it also helps as a sort of Aspect?  Namely, it's not _just_ miracles, but it'd also give some physical protection?

In the Sample of Play, the characters have an airforce that also comes a little out of their Chancel.  Is that Borderguard or what?  As a sort of leader here, I'm wondering what specific resources we have available to us, or what we could have availble to us based on our expenditure of Chancel Points.

I think I'm going to go with the Chancel stuff I proposed earlier.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 6, 2005)

...say, J, don't you mean "chivalry," not "civility"?


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## sophist (Apr 6, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> So, to clarify, while BG offers the divination miracles, it also helps as a sort of Aspect?  Namely, it's not _just_ miracles, but it'd also give some physical protection?
> 
> In the Sample of Play, the characters have an airforce that also comes a little out of their Chancel.  Is that Borderguard or what?  As a sort of leader here, I'm wondering what specific resources we have available to us, or what we could have availble to us based on our expenditure of Chancel Points.




Well, it's not true Aspect, but it could hinder low Aspect intruders. Real difficulty to overcome the BG would be at Level 3 (Lesser preservations), and noble level hurt at level 4 (the first realm level that would hurt by _just_ using realm). However, to make the point expenditure worthwhile, the higher the BG rating, the higher would be the pseudoaspect of BG. this would turn real defensively on level 3, offensively on level 4.
As for the air force will read up that part again in detail before ruling anything.

Basically, you have the resources of an archaic, ancient, idyllic culture. But remember magic and Alchemy works, which should give you something to work with. Also, note the absence of the deviant technology drawback (p. 140)
Hmm, magic might enable a portal through shadows - let think that through. would still be a major stunt, though, but probably less expensive than Major Creation of Domain.

wandering soul, I have question: since the occultist summoned you, er, will summon you, how can this be, sonce your character is not SUMMONABLE (p.132), or will you grant me leave for this occasion?


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 6, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> ...say, J, don't you mean "chivalry," not "civility"?



... Actually, no.  Although I should clarify that civility is an inherent part of chivalry.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 6, 2005)

Since there seem to be no more comments and I'm reassured that Borderguard won't be a waste, this is the Chancel's point distribution.

```
5 known roads to earth (0)
Borderguard Power 2 (+6)
Sheperd Magic (Normal), Faeriae Magic, Alchemy (+6)
Borderguard Penetration 1 (+1)
Two-way gateway to a Chancel with allied Imperator/indifferent Powers (+1)
Pleasant Landlord (-1)
Banes (barbarians, intriguing agents) (-1)
Primary Target (-4)
(hidden drawback, to revealed during play) (-2)
```

On second thought, I have one more question.  Corinthi hasn't posted to the game at all.  Can I still use his 1 Realm?  If he's not going to be in the game, then I have to drop one of the +1's, prossibly BG Penetration.


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## sophist (Apr 6, 2005)

mailed corinthi today, but assume he's gone. If he doesn't return by Friday, I'll designate his spot as open ...


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 6, 2005)

Hey, Sophist, any chance of adding Keys to the introduction?

[waits around for Lichtenhart to show up to see Simon's response]


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## sophist (Apr 7, 2005)

Three changes do do now:

- play contract (done)
- chancel file (done)
_interesting barabrians both a borderguards and bane. or do i misinterpret. sound like an an additional adventure, though  _
- add Simon to intro (friday to edit the forgotten, too)

[yawn] but 'nuff for today


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## sophist (Apr 8, 2005)

I've been reading up on the air support mentioned in the "example of play" and I think it is not clear if it's a BG. Anyway, to have your BG help you outside chancel borders, you need to revoke their bane status. And at most, they will help you close to the chancel exit.

I think it would be useful to introduce a new convention: If you want to do a miraculous action, detail how to do it. Example:"I use a lesser creation of realm/domain to do X."
You probably do this already most of the time, but let's estabish it on a general basis.

it is also interesting to note that lsser divinations of realm seem to be more encompassing than those of domain! while the first let's you find things in the chancel, the latter only reveals things about the domain. So i would rule that a lesser divination finds something if it is part of the domain. <this is not an interpreation hint for IC>


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 8, 2005)

I didn't think it was a Borderguard in the Sample of Play, to be honest -- I just figured that they were created, like, through a Lesser Creation of Realm.


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## sophist (Apr 8, 2005)

yes, Lesser creation is what I think, too. 
I am trying to make the high cost worthwhile.
Or it is a BG with Lesser Creations.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 8, 2005)

Hey, J -- how about asking Mamba where it is, and then using a Lesser Creation of Passageways to create a one-way passage to outside the place?


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 8, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> I've been reading up on the air support mentioned in the "example of play" and I think it is not clear if it's a BG. Anyway, to have your BG help you outside chancel borders, you need to revoke their bane status. And at most, they will help you close to the chancel exit.



I'm not clear as to why the BG and the Bane are the same.  Couldn't my BG be more like knights than barbarians?  (if that's the tech level we're going for)


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 8, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> yes, Lesser creation is what I think, too.
> I am trying to make the high cost worthwhile.
> Or it is a BG with Lesser Creations.



All right, could I start creating stuff like that in my spare time, then?


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 8, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Hey, J -- how about asking Mamba where it is, and then using a Lesser Creation of Passageways to create a one-way passage to outside the place?



Well, I think he's gone and stepped throught he portal already, but sophist hasn't quite gotten to him, so I'm not sure.  If I can ask him, though, that's a good idea.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 8, 2005)

Oh, and you shouldn't have the Borderguard Penetration (+1) in the Chancel.  Since we don't have Corinthi, we don't get that +1.


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## sophist (Apr 8, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> All right, could I start creating stuff like that in my spare time, then?




Yes. that's the power of high realm. with enough effort, you can change the face of the chancel.

Like the Duke of shadows can make it gloomy everywhere.

he, seems I have to put some deep thoughts into lesser creation this weekend. 

Of course your BG can be knights, the barbarian idea just was stuck in my head.

I also figured that the shadow passage way needn#t be a major creation, but more cheaply a lesser change. or amy suggested an alternative. my RL players never challegend me that way. but i like it.


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## Lichtenhart (Apr 9, 2005)

Jdvn1, if I may, since our Chancel is mostly a wild place, maybe Rangers would be slightly more appropriate than knights. 

A few questions as I slowly begin to understand the rules:

Is there any way my gift of Gatemaking could help Mamba with his portal?

Are our chars supposed to learn about Alchemy? That interests me a lot both IC and OOC


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 9, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> I also figured that the shadow passage way needn#t be a major creation, but more cheaply a lesser change. or amy suggested an alternative. my RL players never challegend me that way. but i like it.




Comes from being a D&D rules lawyer.  >.>  I see it as a Lesser Change of Shadows, too, though -- it folds in a Lesser Destruction of Shadows, or at least the part of shadows that makes them discrete and non-connected, and it's a Lesser Change to allow you to walk into them.

At least, that's one way to think of it.  I think this kind of thing is fun.  ^.^;

Also, I can imagine rangers as "knights of the wild," obeying a kind of "natural law" that speaks of honor and justice and worth for all life, and so on...


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Also, I can imagine rangers as "knights of the wild," obeying a kind of "natural law" that speaks of honor and justice and worth for all life, and so on...



I think that's a good compromise.  I was thinking knights because that's more in line with my character.  I don't recall what code our imperator follows, though.  My character is the Code of Light, not of the Wild, so rangers aren't the flavor per se.  Otherwise, I'd also be okay with a mix of knights and rangers.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 9, 2005)

I thought you followed the Code of Heaven?


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Yes, Heaven. For some reason I thought it was also called Light.


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## sophist (Apr 9, 2005)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> Jdvn1, if I may, since our Chancel is mostly a wild place, maybe Rangers would be slightly more appropriate than knights.
> 
> A few questions as I slowly begin to understand the rules:
> 
> ...



 Re Gatemaking:I don`t have the book with me today ... but i think that would be an idea!

Re Alchemy: Deails can be found out IC, each characters knows that it exists but the details are fuzzy. Nothing that a bit of study can'T cure.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 9, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Yes, Heaven. For some reason I thought it was also called Light.




The Code of the Light is something else entirely, actually.  Interesting group, though.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 9, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> The Code of the Light is something else entirely, actually.  Interesting group, though.



Yeah, I know.  Realized that afterwards.


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## sophist (Apr 11, 2005)

Jdvn1, don't dispair, I have your note text ready, but I can't PM here, and can't figure out how to do that "Spoiler" thing, which I would very much like to do for your note.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 11, 2005)

Spoiler or sblock?
For spoiler, type [ spoiler]Text[ /spoiler] but without the spaces.
For sblock, type [ sblock]Text[ /sblock] but without spaces.

They both probably get the point across just fine, it's a matter of preference.
This: 



Spoiler



Is a spoiler.  No one can see it unless they highlight.


This: [sblock]Is an sblock.  You have to click the box to open.[/sblock]

Unless you didn't get that, highlight the first to see the text.


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## sophist (Apr 11, 2005)

IC thread updated.(to include Medeas note - would've been more clever to do a second post there  )


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 12, 2005)

Also, to PM me or send me a message, I think you have to go to my profile.

Also: Gah!  Husband?    Sorry, Medea.  As soon as I remember which rose is the appropriate rose, you'll get your answer...


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## sophist (Apr 12, 2005)

Being only a plain registerd user, PMing does not work for me.  But that's ok, this site has to be kept up, so it's fine with me that supporters get privileges.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 12, 2005)

True, but if you go to my Profile, under Contact Info, there's an option to send an email to the person.  Not the same, but it gets the point across, I think.

Personally, I like the sblocks better anyway.


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## sophist (Apr 15, 2005)

please don't nail me on the facts of if ts is the right time of year or violet and narcissus. Gardening is very much less a strength of mine than storytelling.  

If you all think it's important, of course, I'll make the effort, but I'd prefer to concentrate on symbolism here.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 15, 2005)

... What time of year _is_ it?

Anyway, I don't think anyone cares.  I'm having fun, at least.


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## sophist (Apr 18, 2005)

Hm, let's say it's spring. 2nd of April 2005 if your characters time perceptions are not out of whack through ennoblement. You all have no idea how long that took.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 18, 2005)

Sounds good to me.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 22, 2005)

Just to note a bit -- having a virtue makes you supernaturally adept at finding the most Virtuous alternative to solving a problem.  Whatever that might mean.

By the way, has the gaming contract been completed yet?  (And has anyone seen Lichtenhart, again...?)


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## sophist (Apr 22, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Just to note a bit -- having a virtue makes you supernaturally adept at finding the most Virtuous alternative to solving a problem.  Whatever that might mean.




Read that today, too. Remebered only the part about the virtue being virtually unshakable. :\ As I see it written, there is the possibilty that you would violate the virtue willfully. It prevents inadverted violation, but not willful violation.   



> By the way, has the gaming contract been completed yet?  (And has anyone seen Lichtenhart, again...?)




What do you miss?
Lichtenhart posted yesterday again.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 22, 2005)

Oh, cool, it does look done.  Perhaps you should ask all of the players to "sign" it?


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## sophist (Apr 23, 2005)

I assumed that by playing you implicitly subscribe to the play contract. But your idea can help, too. Like post there saying something like this:

1. Player

2. agreementing/signatory formula

3. things I could add, or question about the contract.

*This is just in proposal stage yet. Don't post yet. WHat do you think of Amy's idea?*

Explaination of Gatemaker implementation:
As I understand it, the Gift allows you to make a gate from the beginning of a mythic road to its end. Where is no mythic road, the gift cannot be used. The gate leads where the road leads. As I planned an chancel exit to NY anyway, you can find a mythic road in NY leading to your chancel.
The balcony has no mythic roads. Simon sees the closest mythic road in the park and uses his gift there. Activation: simple, i.e. mythic action, but no MPs. (see p. 120)

Oh, and shall I make an extra effort to recover some fifth player? the power of the forgotten or something similar would fit so fine in my concept.


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## Lichtenhart (Apr 23, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> I assumed that by playing you implicitly subscribe to the play contract. But your idea can help, too. Like post there saying something like this:
> 
> 1. Player
> 
> ...



Well, I don't know if we need to get that formal, but if you'd like that, I've got nothing against it.



> Explaination of Gatemaker implementation:
> As I understand it, the Gift allows you to make a gate from the beginning of a mythic road to its end. Where is no mythic road, the gift cannot be used. The gate leads where the road leads. As I planned an chancel exit to NY anyway, you can find a mythic road in NY leading to your chancel.
> The balcony has no mythic roads. Simon sees the closest mythic road in the park and uses his gift there. Activation: simple, i.e. mythic action, but no MPs. (see p. 120)



Basically what I was trying to do was using the remnants of the shadow portal as a mystic roads, but what you posted works as well.



> Oh, and shall I make an extra effort to recover some fifth player? the power of the forgotten or something similar would fit so fine in my concept.



I think I'd like it too.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 24, 2005)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> Well, I don't know if we need to get that formal, but if you'd like that, I've got nothing against it.



That's what I'm thinking too.  Don't see the point of being that formal, but I see nothing wrong with it.



			
				Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> I think I'd like it too.



What's that you say?  An excuse to make my Chancel cooler?  I'm all for it!


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 24, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> What's that you say?  An excuse to make my Chancel cooler?  I'm all for it!




Hey, I thought it was _our_ Chancel.  >.>


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 24, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Hey, I thought it was _our_ Chancel.  >.>



*ahem*  Yeah, yeah.


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## sophist (Apr 27, 2005)

Sorry to be away for so long, but I had three bad days with health troubles. On the
up side it gave me time fix my bike which almost literally fell apart on Sunday.

Lichtenhart, I wasn't thinking of the Shadow gate as a mythic road. I have to think this through with all implications ... For example if you can get out of a chancel with a Realm creation of portals, and back in with Gatemaker, why having roads at all? You might argue that not all groups have this TrueKing/Gatemaker-Setup, but this near universial mobilty has quite some implications. Still try to hang onto the MORANDA Law, though.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 27, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> Still try to hang onto the MORANDA Law, though.



Moranda Law?

Glad to hear you've gotten through some troubles somewhat okay, soph.


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## sophist (May 2, 2005)

Ops, thats Monarda of course. mixed n,r up. most important law of GM/HGing.

Well, my "troubles" are not over yet. One of the Profs decided to rearrange the semester plan.  My work about the inventory of fictional world is supposed to happen in two weeks, not eight!
On the up side, this is fine stuff, that spells out explicitly many over the things we roleplayer did by instinct only all these years. Very cool for a thinking type like me.

But I will be able to keep this game up, but only the promised 4 times per week promised by the game contract.


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## Jdvn1 (May 2, 2005)

... Okay, what's the Monarda Law?

Can you show us the work you're working on when you're done with it?  Sounds interesting.


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## sophist (May 6, 2005)

The Monarda Law says:"Never say NO!" or how I used it even bfore knowing Nobilis, "Give the players what the want, but not how they want it." (in the book it is somewhere around pp. 17-20).
Basically, it the great idea that in the end doing things in the fictional world does not come down to either making it or not, but implementing how the character did it. The advantage of pen&paper or PbP roleplaying over MMORPG is that your choices are not restricted by an programmed engine, only by imagination. A game engine says "No this is not possible" all the time, a DM/HG can say "you can do it, if..." or "you can do it, but this will happen, too. Still want to do it?" and so on.

Also players like to try out all kinds of stunts that cannot be covered in full. Players are more satisfied if you as GM/HG say:"you can try, but is highly unlikely because of ..." rather than "you can't do it, because it's not in the rules."

THat is why it is so important and why it is coverd in the very first part of Ianthe's treatment about HGing.

* * *

What I am working upon is what makes fictional world work, techiques empolyed to created them & versimiltude, concepts like immersion, interaction and so on. I am working in German, so it might be not too easily transferable. Easier is giving you some references to english laguage literature we use.


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## Jdvn1 (May 6, 2005)

Very interesting stuff.

Maybe one of those online translators would work okay?


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## sophist (May 9, 2005)

I hopefully will be done this Thursday.   

I sometimes use Babaelfish for vocabulary translations, if my english leaves me for a moment, but to my experience with sentences it ican be quite horrible ... But I can try anyway.

If there is no reaction IC, I will continue with further events ...


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## Jdvn1 (May 11, 2005)

Hopefully we haven't lost Shadows either.


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## sophist (May 13, 2005)

I am now done with my class lecture, but it will take some time before I can imaprt some of the stuff here. My notes are scattered and mostly handwritten, but since I strive for a final written form anyway, I give out info and references as I go along.


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## Jdvn1 (May 14, 2005)

You mean highlights or "Best of..."?  Cool!


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## sophist (May 30, 2005)

Has this game gone belly-up?   Or am I missing something here?  

In a tabletop game I'd say now "ok, since you don't do anything I assume you go home and to sleep. Then it's the next day ..."

But this way it looks to me like you quit.


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## Charles Rampant (May 30, 2005)

Ohmigawd!

Is there room for another player? I've never had a chance to play nobilis, and it's sad all alone and neglected on my shelf, the poor thing.


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## sophist (May 30, 2005)

Well, you are sure to be welcome as far as I am concerned, but I am not really sure if the others are still here.

But some way, or another I am sure we can find a way to play.


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## Charles Rampant (May 30, 2005)

Best to sit and see if the game is going, if it is i'll join in. 

Though I might make a character anyway, just for the principle of it.


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## Jdvn1 (May 30, 2005)

I know Amy and I are still around!

I just had no clue what to do, so I was hoping someone else would come up with an idea.  I'd like to take care of the Barbarian problem, but somehow I think that a creation of anvils directly over their heads wouldn't take care of it.  

(yes, make a character -- if you have more than 0 realm, that's good  )


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## sophist (May 30, 2005)

Entsuropi said:
			
		

> Best to sit and see if the game is going, if it is i'll join in.
> 
> Though I might make a character anyway, just for the principle of it.




Fine, all links you need are in the first post of this thread.

If there are any questions, just ask.


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## sophist (May 30, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> I just had no clue what to do, so I was hoping someone else would come up with an idea.  I'd like to take care of the Barbarian problem, but somehow I think that a creation of anvils directly over their heads wouldn't take care of it.




Well something along these lines (practiced by your predecessors) may be why these people are so hostile anyway.   

Do you think I leave you too much room? Also some problems are not easy to solve nor can they be. (i.e. Banes) Don't feel frustrated because of that. This ain't D&D, where one is supposed to smash every "evil".

Ok, I think i'll try a heavier hand to lead play more.


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## Jdvn1 (May 30, 2005)

Also, Ent --

Even if you don't have questions, we're good for feedback.  Plus, seeing characters mid-creation is interesting.

And feel free to ignore my comment about Realm if you so wish -- my character is True King, so any boost to my Realm, I'm all for.


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## Jdvn1 (May 30, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> Well something along these lines (practiced by your predecessors) may be why these people are so hostile anyway.



Yes, I can see your point -- my predecessors made the mistake of leaving some alive.    Enough anvils should take care of that problem, though.


			
				sophist said:
			
		

> Do you think I leave you too much room? Also some problems are not easy to solve nor can they be. (i.e. Banes) Don't feel frustrated because of that. This ain't D&D, where one is supposed to smash every "evil".
> 
> Ok, I think i'll try a heavier hand to lead play more.



Yeah, remember this is my first Nobilis game -- I'm still getting a feel for the system.  In some ways it's good that my character seems to fall into a leadership position (since I'm forced to learn fast), and in some ways it's horrible (since I'm inexperienced).  Shadows takes the lead sometimes (as, I'm sure, everyone will do once in a while -- we haven't played for too long, though), and that's a relief.

I'm not sure how much room is customary in Nobilis, but this is definitely more than most D&D games I've played.  I like that, though.  I'm used to a more rushed feel, and it's interesting to me to see another sort of game.  Since I'm not sure what to do, we could do some down-time here -- a few of us have things we want to do at home.


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## Charles Rampant (May 30, 2005)

...I had forgotten how much I love the cover of Nobilis...

*strokes*

Erm, 

The concept I have, based on the Imperiator and what I remember of Nobilis, is this:

Name: Once
Domain: Time. 
Domain focus: That which once was, and will no longer be. (too close to the power of Forgotten?)

He would be a part of the chancel, who suddenly formed into sentience and Power. A statue from the Greek city perhaps, or a Gargoyle from one of the castles (if this is the case, perhaps he would have a very strong bond with that power). Probably focusing on Realm and Domain the most for attributes.


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## Lichtenhart (May 30, 2005)

I think i felt much the same way as J. It's my first Nobilis game too, and maybe I'd need a stronger hand at the beginning while I get a feel for the game.

Ent, I'm glad you're interested, i like your concept  and I think you could safely grab the power of Forgotten, or the aspects of it that interest you more, for yourself.


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## Charles Rampant (May 30, 2005)

Ok, completed character is up in the rogues gallery.  Let me know what you think.


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## sophist (May 31, 2005)

Basically, I like your idea. it interfaces in a interesting manner that I have in mind.
there is only one thing I'd like to point to:



> _Quoted from IC:_
> Oh, I guess that is one of the things the mistress wants you to find out yourselves. Well, you will see a lot of things, and I think it is our mistress' hope that you find the solution that will save us all excrusian guys included.




Well, if you follow the dark, there might will be some conflict here ... if you can deal with that, that's fine with me. Plus, you should have some positive relation to creation, not nessesarily humanity.

I am not saying that you can't follow the dark, but that will put you at odds with some other players, and some _- not all -_ of the goals of this campaign. If you're willing to face these odds, go on. Just don't say I didn't warn you.   
OTOH, changing what the HG had in mind is for me a players right, so your impulse might do good.

Also think about that if you are noble, there must be an essence of Empty(ness). And it is an word that means something, perhaps in a paradoxical manner, but nevertheless.

All this is not meant to be a fundamental critique. You playing Empty works for me and will let us explore some interesting themes.
For example, Empty having the name of uniqueness and singularity:ONCE. There is much interesting tension here that you designed into your concept and that i surely want you to keep.

so, basically a fine character, but with some minor difficulties I wanted to point out.


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## Charles Rampant (May 31, 2005)

Minor difficulties is the core of nobilis characters 



> Also think about that if you are noble, there must be an essence of Empty(ness). And it is an word that means something, perhaps in a paradoxical manner, but nevertheless.




I think what you are getting at here is that my character must reflect his domain? Well I tried to a degree to do this - his views on cruelty, humans and infact everything are probably TOO typical of his domain. The idea being that he is struggling to determine where he ends and his domain begins. Also, as a statue, who lives in an empty cavern, one could say that he is about as empty as can be.



> Plus, you should have some positive relation to creation, not nessesarily humanity.




My character wants creation to exist. Maybe not in it's current state, perhaps. After all, you need SOMETHING to be empty. Not existing at all is a different concept entirely. So yes, he will oppose the Excrusians.



> For example, Empty having the name of uniqueness and singularity:ONCE




Pure chance actually. I liked the name and kept it, but I suspect it influenced me as I ruminated my way through the concept.



> I am not saying that you can't follow the dark, but that will put you at odds with some other players, and some - not all - of the goals of this campaign.




Like I said to Jvdn1 on AIM, if the other players do not like the way the concept meshes with their characters I will happily remake. I love making character backgrounds, almost as much as I love playing them. Other domain ideas I came up with included:

Time (seen above)
Life (taking a cue from the Regina, the focus would be mysteriousness, a bit of darkness. Predatorial rather than benign for example, but that would also be rather Darkish)
Everything (going for the mysteriousness of it, taking a cue from comments by physicists that we simply do not know much about how the universe works. This concept was to include 'empty' as part of it's concept but i eventually just stuck with Empty alone)
Conspiracy (the ultimate merger of Mystery and Action, as I see it)
Darkness (far far too close to shadows)
Secrets (too obvious for my tastes)


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## sophist (May 31, 2005)

About my metaphysical and linguistic analysis of " the Empty":


			
				Entsuropi said:
			
		

> I think what you are getting at here is that my character must reflect his domain? Well I tried to a degree to do this - his views on cruelty, humans and infact everything are probably TOO typical of his domain. The idea being that he is struggling to determine where he ends and his domain begins. Also, as a statue, who lives in an empty cavern, one could say that he is about as empty as can be.




I was just aiming for a bit of philosophical reflection. Discourse-analytic reflexes. Sorry.   




> My character wants creation to exist. Maybe not in it's current state, perhaps. After all, you need SOMETHING to be empty. Not existing at all is a different concept entirely. So yes, he will oppose the Excrusians.




this is pretty much the main thing for me. If this stands, it's ok for me if your character follows the dark.


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## Charles Rampant (May 31, 2005)

In that case, perhaps we can wait to see if the other players like it and then if they do insert Once into the game. At which point i'll vaporise, i mean, meet the other characters.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm still here!  Sorry, I'm just overwhelmed -- I'm still in school, all sorts of things are flying at me to finish because I'm approaching finals and the end of the term, and I'm also really sick right now.  So.  Um, I'll hopefully be able to post something soon, though.


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## sophist (Jun 1, 2005)

Ok, can you give me the date when school/ finals will be over? That should really lessen my nervousness about you not being able to post, as I can put it into context then ...


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## sophist (Jun 2, 2005)

Well, well, still no reaction. By tomorrow, I will try, as a last resort, to fast forward the game to a first adventure ... if that does not work until - let's say- next week, we will seriously have to think of the way to go: calling it off, restart or else ...

It seems everyone of you is waiting for the others, so noone is doing anything. It also seems that the sheer mysteriousness I build is too confusing. So i'll try to speed things towards solving the questions.

But everyone who still wants to be part of the first quest needs to check in, as I can't build you in on the fly on this quest.

So the prelude died a slow agonizing death ... maybe part one: "To the Stars" will work.
Downtime must come later thus.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 3, 2005)

Amy told me it'd be about a week (the 11th, I think? but that's a Saturday, so probably the 10th).

I posted an idea to the IC thread, although I mention it OOC... anyway the exposition/prelude is fun at least, so I wouldn't mind taking it to completion.  If everything is still slow next week, then ... well, the HG always has veto power/final word on what we do, but.

Sad to see it die, though.


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## sophist (Jun 4, 2005)

I just gave you all more time. You intervened in time Jdvn1 (btw, does that stand for anything in paticular?).

Maybe a vitalizing impulse would be ti include our new player: Entsuropi you are given permission to go IC.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 5, 2005)

All right, if no one posts by the next time I have time (it's currently _really_ late and I'm exhausted and wouldn't be able to post a good post right now), then I'll lead the way and assume everyone follows me as we look at my chancel.

'Jdvn' is a form of my initials (my initials are actually jdn, but my middle name is david and I use dv to differentiate from my brother, who is jdnn).  And the 1... is because at the time I came up with that, the minimum number of characters for a name was 5.

Any advice on how to include the new player?  I'm hoping you have ideas on how to include him.    I can probably come up with something on the way to my castle if you don't have anything.


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## sophist (Jun 6, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Any advice on how to include the new player?  I'm hoping you have ideas on how to include him.    I can probably come up with something on the way to my castle if you don't have anything.




IMO we could just take seriously what he himself offered: that he was sponantously created by his estate. In my plans this makes weird sense.  
Otherwise, you are in the chancel, so in time/space I don't see the problem ...
it really depends on how Entsurpoi introduces his character. If too many problems arise IC over codes etc., I will try to smooth over from Impatrix side.

One advantage for me is that Empty's cavern is empty, so I don't nedd to develop NPCs here like for you others.  

 --->[sblock]
everything started to slow down when I switched to that Harry Potter avatar. Maybe Mystra wants to send me a message that way ... point taken.[/sblock]


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 6, 2005)

Well, I thought maybe the Elatic would walk by, "Oh, here you are -- a buddy for you."  Or possibly we have a sense for a new member of our familia.  Or something.  I'll just run with Once's introduction, though.  
[sblock]Not that it made a difference, but the Harry Potter thing kept throwing me off -- when I'd look for your posts, I'd always look for the big white Mystra thing.  Now I have to readjust.  [/sblock]


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## Charles Rampant (Jun 20, 2005)

Sophist, you there?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey, guys -- just wanted to let you know that I'm back from the turmoil of lack of consistent 'Net connection and finals and chaos, and so I should be posting in the next couple of days after I catch up.  Thanks!


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 23, 2005)

Woo!  Welcome back, Amy.


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## sophist (Jun 24, 2005)

This time I had a bicycle crash .. too much speed and some loose stones. But now I can cycle again (don't have much choce there) without pain, so this weekend I will catch up and next week will be back to normal.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 25, 2005)

Yikes!  I'm glad your okay now, though!


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## sophist (Jun 27, 2005)

> If I were to declare i was using a lesser creation of empty (which i do automatically, i believe) could i use it in such a manner as to say 'show me clues about this unknown mans motivations and masters'? By 'deleting' the things that stand between Once and the knowledge he seeks (ie, enemies, time, distance, what have you). Now I'm not sure how this would take effect (maybe once would be whipped somewhere else, or maybe he would end up changing the chancel) but it is certainly possible, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Charles Rampant (Jun 27, 2005)

Oh my god, we are being undermined by THE MEN IN BLACK.

Hahahaha!

/me deletes UFOs

[cough]

Let me know if my actions IC are possible, sophist.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jun 28, 2005)

sophist said:
			
		

> If I allow this, what keeps one from creating enough time for oneself to win any fight, or to create enough space to make any chancel endlessly large, or even reverse the time flow to prevent Lucifer's Fall or the slaying of Heaven Gatekeeper?




The simple answer, I think, is Miracle Points.  Doing this sort of thing is not to be taken lightly, and would be at minimum a Major Creation for anything of importance or significance or breadth, which means that it'll be a constant drain on Miracle Points to do so constantly.  Nobilis is a resource allocation system, and it might be a good idea to allow players to spend significant resources to do... well, significant things.  But of course even Major Creations have limits, like the number of years that could be traversed, or something.

Also, it might be helpful to keep in mind that in some sense Nobles and Imperators and so on exist outside of time -- since Time is an Estate, and Nobles do not exist in any Estate, then Nobles cannot be affected by time-manipulation unless we're talking artifact-level or Imperator-level.  You can certainly manipulate time for your ordinary mortal, and I think Nobilis encourages the mortals-are-as-ants way of thinking about them such that this is possible, but Nobles are not so easily affected.

Oh, I think you're right about the prayer thing, by the way -- only works if you're an Anchor.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 28, 2005)

Well, I've been thinking about what sorts of things I can do in my chancel.  I was under the impression that I could do anything that any Noble with a 4 Domain could do.  If I were the Duke of Time, what could I do?  It seems like most things would be very high level miracles.  Could I use a bunch of lesser creations of Time to put more seconds between now and two seconds from now?  What other ways could I simulate super speed/instantaneous movement?  That would, lengthen my day, it'd seem, which wouldn't seem odd of I were the Duke of Time.  I think.

I'm still learning, though, so maybe I'm way off base.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jun 28, 2005)

Just as a note -- you can only create physical objects with Realm Creations.  Non-physical and abstract objects in a Realm are the products of Change.  And Changes _always_ require MP.

You should probably read the bit about Realm miracles and how they differ from Domain miracles -- in the Realm miracle section.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 28, 2005)

Hm, okay.  I should rethink my plans, then.  I'll wait and see the results of everyone else's posts.


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## sophist (Jun 28, 2005)

Entsuropi said:
			
		

> Oh my god, we are being undermined by THE MEN IN BLACK.
> Hahahaha!
> /me deletes UFOs
> [cough]



Well, black suits are generally a sign of power in western societies. Even so far that they constitute the "uniform" of pwer these days. I did not mention any black glasses to push it not too far. There is even some book in cultural studies called "Men in Black" that work out
why black is used here and presents the case that blach IS used this way.



> Let me know if my actions IC are possible, sophist.




If you spend the MPs for a major change, well, there you go. I still feel a bit uncomfortable about this, because you have only a vague description of this man. Essentially you are not only creating a void that is also a path, but aslo seeking the "inflitrator" without you having a clear idea of him. So, if you spend the MPs to make this vastly powerful and unlikely act happen, you can do so. With Domain 5, this should be within your reach.


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## sophist (Jun 28, 2005)

_These thoughts are still unordered. I see that I really have to look at what the book says. I have however little hope to find a prescription here. These basic balancing and consistency issues need a solution:_

Amy and Jdvn1, I can see your points, so will try to be more preceise.

The answer might be indeed to draw a distinct line between minor and major uses,
but where should one draw it? Is one minute a minor creation, or even five? With
that a true king could make a day a hundred times or more longer, using no MPs at
all.
An invading army comes calling just create that Moebius* space to imprison them.
The others have no power over space in my Realm? tough luck, now they're gone
forever. How could any chancel ever fall? Even if there is a noble. just spend enough
MPs to overcome Spirit 5, you don't need them anyway, because there is no path out
of a Moebius space.
((*i think you all know what a Moebius space is???))
Or a fight with an excrucian shard - let's give us ten seconds for each second
the shard has. For each step he can make, our mortal soldier can fire 1000
bullets from his autocannon at him. Mortal 1 shard 0.
So if ten second is too much for minor creations, we come near the point where
it will become neigh useless for non-combat use, or does it?
Look at what TIME STOP in D&D does. It halts time for the caster for d4+1 turns.
Still it is one of the must have spells. Why? Because now you created about 3 or
four spells of mass destruction to blow away almost anything in your way.

Ok, now let's say 3 seconds of time is a major creation. Maybe I can live with
that. Remeber that I cannot set different standards in or out of combat. David
can still make three days out of one if he concentrates almost constantly.
Still a significant feat I'd say with no MPs whatsoever.

But whta's the limit of a major creation, or to be more hard a major change?
If I change a second to a year with maybe 4 MPs, I spend all MPs I have to do it
again. Now I have year to do things in the space others barely blink twice.
Major changes are not even limited in area as minor effects are.

Well, this is only the bare beginning. Imagine the noble of truth.
Blowing all of his MPs in one fell act, he negates the truth of Lord Entropy
existence. If you want a game where a noble can obliterate any other with but
a thought in her chancel, then confict comes down to who can act first.

So if Realm means power over time, space, and truth I see Nobilis becoming a
very different game. The only limit then, to instant obliterations of diverse
kinds are that you can only 8 MPs on one effect?
It would make adventures within the chancel pretty pointless anyway, because well,
you win.

I don't think that some time immunity really helps here. If someone mainpulates time
only for himself or his army, you are not affected anyway by the time manipulation.
What affects you is the effect of the others having the time to create three times
more miracles or physical attacks in the space you only get one. See again TIME
STOP.

Putting these things on a creation scale does indeed tone things down a bit,
but then the question the minor scale rises again. What is enough for 2-4 miracle
points? 5, 10 minutes. And it does not solve the assured obliteration problem
that can arise out of even granting 5 seconds for a minor creation.
And many physicists would argue that time & space are pyhsical "objects". For example
gravity affects space. And if time is nothing physical, one could only affect perception of
it, not objectively dillate time. 

+ + + +

Second, I do think I have allowed significant things with expending MPs. Viewing
flashes of the past, portal creation and other things. If you think I am stingy
and miserly, I can't help it.  

+++++++

Third for superhuman speed and thinking, there is aspect.


_The only solution will be to define bottom up, how to see time and space:
mere concepts, conditions of perception?
or objectivly existing?
how mich time will be a minor use, and a major one?
and so forth .... _


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## Charles Rampant (Jun 28, 2005)

I looked at the book earlier, and it says 'anything' can be done with a level 9 use of your domain. But the examples were rather... limited. Make a crowd go insane with anger when they were perfectly happy before (emotion), make any mortal weep at a song (music) etc. I would consider the music one, especially, a rather basic power. At the start of the domain section it tells you how to classify as lesser or minor - will this affect the game world? Major. Is it a power the character needs to do constantly as part of his domain? Minor. And so on.

And nobilis did say that combat in nobilis is rather like MAD - Mutally Assured Destruction. By the time you do your thing, the enemy will have done his, and then everyone dies. Which helps noone. So they resort to trickery, social ostracising, and the like to fight their wars against other nobles.


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## Charles Rampant (Jun 28, 2005)

BTW, does anyone here have IM? I've got JDN1, but it'd probably help this conversation if we had more IM


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## Lichtenhart (Jun 28, 2005)

Entsuropi said:
			
		

> BTW, does anyone here have IM? I've got JDN1, but it'd probably help this conversation if we had more IM




You can find them all below my avatar.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jun 28, 2005)

Well, to be honest, I think the way to go in Nobilis is to insist that time and space are _not_ physical objects, but that the prosaic world of course is reinterpreting them in a certain way as a result of the current configuration of the universe.  But beyond that -- time already exists in the Chancel, which makes it a matter of Change and not Creation.  And even 1 MP is precious, considering how few we get.  Keep in mind the example about Rook and her using a Creation of Eternity to toughen herself up: a Creation of Eternity is like a free gift, but a Lesser one runs out at the end of the scene, whereas a Major one will last until disenchantment.  A Major Creation _is_ worth about as much as a gift, because of how many MPs you need to  spend on it; players are usually loath to casually spend them, and, much like a wizard, if you spend all of your MPs in one scenario, there's nothing stopping your foes from advancing in the very next moment.

But personally, I'd say that a Lesser/Major Anything of Time would affect either one _person_ or one _area_ -- so there hopefully wouldn't be an "I only affect my army and not yours" scenario.  And as for the moebius strip of space, I'd say that, since it has no connection to the Chancel, then Realm cannot create it as it attempts to do something outside of the Chancel and therefore is not part of it.  I think that a Lesser/Major of the concepts you're talking about probably should be feasible in Realm, but, as always, Realm has significantly more restrictions than Domain does, and so the miracles that you're talking about may be beyond even a Tempest's power.  (And keep in mind that even if you penetrate Auctoritas, you can still only affect a Noble indirectly -- you can shoot a bullet at them, or enclose them in a boulder, but Time and Truth of a Noble are likely inherent concepts that do not fall into a domain, and thus can never be affected even if Auctoritas is penetrated.)

Keep in mind, by the way, that an invading (mortal) army _should_ be the equivalent of an insect attempting to storm a fortress, or at least, that's what the game suggests.  (I forget which section of the book talks about how Nobles are expected to treat mortals with casual excessiveness.)  Mortal threats are more or less easily quashed, and only Nobles or higher have any significance in terms of pure battle.  This is even moreso true in one's own Chancel -- I mean, the True King can even grant the Durant gift to literally everything.  But mortals can be even more powerful than Nobles in the game of information.

Though of course Time's Regal could come pay us a visit and clear things up.  ^.^


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## Charles Rampant (Jun 28, 2005)

Oh oh! Could I then Lesser create Empty beneath him, a mile x mile x mile cube?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jun 28, 2005)

Entsuropi said:
			
		

> Oh oh! Could I then Lesser create Empty beneath him, a mile x mile x mile cube?




That _is_ one of the examples in the book, yeah.


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## Charles Rampant (Jun 28, 2005)

Actually I was making a joke about the noble of time arriving,I don't plan to create any chasms soon. Kinda dull, considering the possibilities of my domain.


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## Lichtenhart (Jun 28, 2005)

I also guess the Regal of Time arrives exactly at the right time. 

I think Amy explained my thoughts too, better than i could do.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 28, 2005)

Hm, I can understand the points.  I need to spend more time with the book -- until then, I'll look for other ways to do things.


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## sophist (Jun 29, 2005)

I am glad to see that you were not all overwhelmed by my long post. This morning I had the opportunity to look things up in the book  ... And the imporant notes there do clear some of my confusions up and invalidate some of my concerns. whew.

But it will take me some more days to develop my ideas further (but I am taking the book now always with me so I am indeed at it) and I will present them here for your consideration before we use them in play. Before that I ask you to refrain from using time. I think that should be possible.


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## Charles Rampant (Jun 29, 2005)

Yeah, I understood your points and your concerns. You don't want to turn this into a D&D 'the noble may create this effect once per day' thing, but you also don't want us using a string of Deus Ex Machina's on the obstacles. 

Thinking about your reply to my attempt earlier to gain clues about the guy was rather, well, mentally gymnastic (you used double and triple negatives a lot, very confusing). Incidentially, I was thinking of the time and events that have not passed when I said I was going to make them empty. Another way of putting it: My thinking was that, at point A stands the familia at the time I made that attempt. At point D, in the future, we know all about this man, his motivations and his location. Points B and C are intermediary points, us investigating. We could be said to be at point B at the time of this post. The thing I was trying before was meant to simply... remove points B and C and parts of A and D, so that the familia standing around about to start the investigation, and the familia having completed the investigation, _are the same moment_. 

In hindsight, that's an astonishingly powerful ability that would essentially remove all challenge from the game, but I still believe it to be possible. Therein lies the problem. We all seem to be clever people, and being clever we can each take these powers and abilities and come up with staggeringly dangerous applications of them. 

I'm glad your the GM, not me 

(BTW: Great game so far, enjoying it a lot).


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## sophist (Jun 29, 2005)

Entsuropi said:
			
		

> In hindsight, that's an astonishingly powerful ability that would essentially remove all challenge from the game, but I still believe it to be possible. Therein lies the problem. We all seem to be clever people, and being clever we can each take these powers and abilities and come up with staggeringly dangerous applications of them.
> 
> I'm glad your the GM, not me




That is why sometimes tend to overshoot in the direction of caution sometimes. Luckily there are other coll heads around, so we can discuss things. If you have any concerns, please voice them.  It's no accident that the Hollyhock is the designated flower of the "GM".  

I am glad that in the end my complicated discourse proved intellegible. It's generally not easy to talk about what is not there, although IMO philosophy helps a bit here. But of course that discipline has its own barriers of understanding.  If I am too complicated to be understood, ask me to reformulate.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 4, 2005)

Hm, sophist hasn't been around for a little while.


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## sophist (Jul 7, 2005)

Indeed. This time monetary problems kept me from going online. The good news is that i will get my free university access back in two weeks time.


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 7, 2005)

Waiting for you, hope you get your problems sorted.

(Why don't you just buy a mac mini? )


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 8, 2005)

Well, good to hear that you're okay, at least, sophist.  Do you know roughly how regularly you'll be able to check back here until then?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jul 13, 2005)

Hey, guys -- where'd you all vanish off to?


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 13, 2005)

I've just been busy, and everyone else has posted sometime today, except for sophist.


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## sophist (Jul 14, 2005)

I have gotten my free UNI access back, so for the next three months my monetary problems can't keep me from posting.

Actually, part of having no other money left is because i had to pay up for the University, but now at least it pays off again by having a 6 days per week avaiable account.

Next week will be heavy with work, but I will now have time and opportunity to post in the evening without additional payments. Also, all semniar work ends this week.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 15, 2005)

That sounds like good news.  That's good, right?  Yay!


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## sophist (Jul 16, 2005)

Well, I am bit hestant to make promises, but it definitlky means that I can post much more often now without loosing a thought about it cutting in my food or other budgets.

Let's see who's still here after all the delays. Definitly fine to have a loyal player despite it all like you, JDVN.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 17, 2005)

Well, a) I really enjoy the game and 2) I'm on EN World pretty often as you might be able to tell by my postcount.


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## sophist (Jul 18, 2005)

We still have scene open at Chivalries castle, namely the court maiden affair.

The others seem done so far? or you want a more specific denounment for Simon, David & Once?


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 18, 2005)

Nah, I'm done. I thought Once might have something to add, but he's been gone for a few days, I think. I'd send him back, making sure he was safe and at least _mostly_ together, with the message that they can come out of hiding. Maybe I can break up the union from the inside.  If Innocence is still doing her thing, I'd check up on her. You can run me through whatever you think is appropriate to save time.


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## sophist (Jul 20, 2005)

Well, for now it seems that best if you go off on a sideline on your own.

Something you still want to do in the prosaic world?
More interested in the Union?
I'll see if I can cook up something .. hmm .. yes, maybe the Impatrix neds you to look after a knightly order. Yes, , I can already think of material that I can use.

If the others return in the meantime, the is still the little girl for Alyra, the Gate for Simon and some empty space to be filled    for Once.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jul 20, 2005)

I still kinda wanna peer into my castle eventually!  I wonder if we can poke everyone?

Oh, also, I should post pretty soon -- I've been going through the mental loop-de-loops of figuring out the moral implications of the situation you gave me.  ^.^;


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 20, 2005)

Just to tell you what's going through my mind...

Nothing to do in the prosaic world really--my anchoring happened off camera. It's not very interesting either. I slipped some spit into a drink during a dinner.
I want to see what happens to the Union when word goes around that they're allowed.

And I have an idea for something I want to do in the mythic world really really soon.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jul 20, 2005)

Is this the thing we came up with?


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 21, 2005)

Yep. You wanna recommend it since you came up with it?


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## sophist (Jul 21, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> I still kinda wanna peer into my castle eventually!  I wonder if we can poke everyone?




I'll leave time for that.



> Oh, also, I should post pretty soon -- I've been going through the mental loop-de-loops of figuring out the moral implications of the situation you gave me.  ^.^;




Exactly what I had in mind. Good to see it worked.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 23, 2005)

By the way--when do we get dynasty points and CP?


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 25, 2005)

IT'S ALIIIIVVVEE!



I'm wanting to follow up this dark man quest. I'd also like to go wandering around the tree, but thats just OOC wanderlust


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 25, 2005)

The tree? Which tree?


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## sophist (Jul 25, 2005)

You will get Dynasty and Character points at the end of the first downtime phase when you're all ready to face the first real adventure.

I did not really plan on sloving the dark man mystery tottaly right now, but there is still some bit to happen now you shook thinks up.

I think Entsuropi means the world tree.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 25, 2005)

I... so have to read the book. Should Entsuropi and I be waiting for Amy to finish her bit and call on us or what?


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## sophist (Jul 25, 2005)

You can wait or go to her (in which case I will post when you arrive there). There is no shoudl from my side, but there may be one from Amy's side ...


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 25, 2005)

I'll wait to see what she wants to do by herself, I suppose.


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 25, 2005)

Heh, I think innocence might take offence at us arriving during her delicate little conversation (after all, Once is captain tactless, and your character is practically the very embodiment of the noble male archetype).


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 25, 2005)

True, but I'd make the scene end faster.


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## Lichtenhart (Jul 27, 2005)

Sorry for my absence, it's been a bad couple weeks, with the last exams, and my grandma  that broke her leg, and I've been the only one to care after her. Finally things are better, and I can resume gaming.

Now, as much as Simon would like to go speak with the old Bertrand and see his castle, I'm going to have no net access between august 7th and 13th, and I don't want the party to have to wait for me any further, so I ask you what I should do.


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## sophist (Jul 27, 2005)

Good to see you back, Lichtenhart.

As for your problem ... do you have net.access until August the 7th?
If yes, just start your scence anyway and we take a break from the 7th to 13th. No sweat.
Or do you want to wait until the 14.8. to continue?


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 27, 2005)

Welcome back, Lichtenhart!  And I'm glad things are better now.

I'm fine with doing your bit until the 7th, if you are.


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## sophist (Jul 28, 2005)

<ponder> Well, seems everyone is now here daily, but not posting IC ...</ponder>


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 28, 2005)

_I'm_ waiting. For Amy or Lichtenhart to trigger me, most likely.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm trying to work out my next move.  ^.^;


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 29, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> I'm trying to work out my next move.  ^.^;



 sophist really got you thinking that much?


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## sophist (Jul 29, 2005)

Well, I thought that it will set one thinking, but I did not realize that it is such a deep concern.

Hope I did not touch on any deeply held beliefs here that are of less concern for a secular person like me.


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## Lichtenhart (Jul 30, 2005)

Triggered. 
I'm all yours till the 7th. I hope we can get something done before then.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jul 30, 2005)

Well, the tricky bit is basically this.  Alyra is a Domina of the Wild and so she's all about the nature of choice, and so she has to technically respect the woman's "right to choose," more or less, but in the animistic world that is in Nobilis, a "human spirit" can actually make a "choice" before it is even born, and she has to respect that _also_, because it may in fact be a "choice removed".  Meanwhile, she's got to deal with the father as well.  So there are a lot of conflicting choices and she's trying to work out how best to simultaneously take care of all of them.

Meanwhile, it seems that her predecessor has had a significantly different interpretation of Innocence than she might herself have, and she has to work _that_ out as well...

By the way, Lichtenhart, I may need Keys' help for something, so.


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 30, 2005)

Why not just kill both of them and be done with it? 

(This is why i'm playing empty and she is playing innocence, methinks)


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 30, 2005)

Entsuropi said:
			
		

> (This is why i'm playing empty and she is playing innocence, methinks)



Seconded.


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## sophist (Jul 30, 2005)

Yipee! All your posts were a nice surprise.  Hope I keep in pace with the quality of your contributions.

As for the number of problems, the deepness of this is an important part of verisimilitude for me. If the old guard dies suddenly, there is bound to be a lot left lying around ... and with much conflict potential, since they had indeed other and rather strict views of their domains.
But don't worry, you're doing good: you asserted yourself well in Derr and Chivalry's place so far.


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 30, 2005)

Nicely done miracles here. I'm being pretty backgroundish this scene, because Once just doesn't have the tact or knowledges to interact. Plus he would just vaporise the emotions they were having to get around that.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 30, 2005)

Well, some of the other ladies had bad feelings toward Gwynneth. You could specify for those feelings to be emptied out.


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 30, 2005)

That's OOC knowledge for Empty. He doesn't have the ability to discern those emotions without a realm miracle. And ultimately, he doesn't really care either way. Remember this is a member of the Dark alignment.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 30, 2005)

Yes, but were we around those ladies, Chivalry or Innocence might request it. I'm just saying that you don't necessarily have nothing to do.


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 30, 2005)

thanks


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jul 30, 2005)

Although of course I'm sure he might volunteer some interesting opinions about reproduction from his point of view, which could be interesting.  >.>


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 30, 2005)

Interesting, educational and highly destructive!


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## Lichtenhart (Jul 31, 2005)

I guess Empty's first choices for solutions are Keys' last ones, given my restriction about violence. I look forward for us being involved in the same project. We'll likely either do something wonderous, kill each other, or destroy the world. 

I'm loving how at every corner there's something that makes me think and question myself.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Jul 31, 2005)

The current sequence of events is getting quite interesting, I think.  >.>  Watch as the Powers of the Wild try to respect all choices while making everyone happy!


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## sophist (Jul 31, 2005)

Watch the wonders of NOBILIS unfold.  
All of this would be very hard to do using D&D3.5.


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 31, 2005)

If this were D&D 3.5, I'd have killed a bunch of people already for the experience.


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## Charles Rampant (Jul 31, 2005)

Bring it, chiv! 

If this was D&D 3.5, Empty would have laughed manically by now. Palpatine style!


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## Jdvn1 (Jul 31, 2005)

Heh. Well, the Technocratic Union wouldn't have lasted this long. And, probably, the same with at least some of the Barbarians.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, the seed has been planted.  Jdvn1 and I were talking about us possibly holding a party, whereby we can all meet a bunch of other Nobles and get in all sorts of trouble.  Theoretically, we could send out invitations for some indeterminate time in the future, and Sophist could just trigger it whenever it happens.

Thoughts?  ^.^


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## Charles Rampant (Aug 1, 2005)

Not bad. Be sure to invite 'of all affiliations', so that all the different characters can mingle with their own 'crowd'. And those of other crowds, naturally.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, we couldn't invite just _one_ affiliation, or all the other affiliations would be snubbed and plot against us anyway or something.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 2, 2005)

The more the merrier!


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## sophist (Aug 3, 2005)

I like this party idea and will include it in my plans. I had the idea of you going to another party firts, but that can be changed or be done in addition. You can discuss your plans IC with the Elatic or on a more abstract level here.

I will let the seed grow in my mind and see what blossoms.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 4, 2005)

Yeah, but Key's castle first, right? I don't know if we can finish his stuff before he goes.


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## sophist (Aug 4, 2005)

He is almost through with Parcival, I think, or maybe he is ... <shrug>, depends on what Simon does next.

It seems a bit tight for Bertram or his castle, but let's wait and see.

Anyway there is still Innocence's castle.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 4, 2005)

True enough.


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## sophist (Aug 6, 2005)

Hm, seems Lichtenhart is away a bit earlier ...

that puts the initiative back to you others.


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## Charles Rampant (Aug 9, 2005)

I posted. Mainly just to prod the game back into life. I've got a tazer if that doesn't work, be warned.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 10, 2005)

I've been working a lot the past couple days, and I've had a bunch of errands--a bunch of which I haven't been able to get done.  I can still post, but I'll probably be sparse and terse.


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## sophist (Aug 10, 2005)

Better sparse and terse than not ...


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## Amy Kou'ai (Aug 11, 2005)

Hey, Sophist -- just a heads-up that I've been a little bit occupied with things lately (learning Haskell and Python, amongst other things), and also I'll be going on vacation for a week taking my sister to college.  I'll be able to make a couple of posts tomorrow and Friday, though, I think, but I'd love to do my castle when I get back.


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## sophist (Aug 16, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> (learning Haskell and Python, amongst other things)



Haskell, oh dear. Sort of like the Modula grind they put us through.    Functional programming might be good to study algorithms, but for greater projects it's useless.


Anyway we're going slow, but we're going.
Hmmm, must be summer ... 

Ok, as soon as you get back, i will steer things towards your castle.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 17, 2005)

"Innocence, you come upon your castle grounds. It's completely empty. You see nothing but rolling hills, spotty trees, and some cows. Truly, this area is innocent of civilization. This is the original state of the area."

At least, I think it'd be hilarious.

"Oh, but you're free to command all of the wildlife you can find."


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## sophist (Aug 17, 2005)

It is an hilarious idea, ideed,   

 but I think it'd be slightly unfair to Amy.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 18, 2005)

Very true. Although I'd still let her stay at my place, so it's not like she'd be homeless.  

Hm, I wonder if I can sell her on the idea.


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## sophist (Aug 18, 2005)

BTW, would the expession "what the heck" still be considered colloquial or is it slang? Or even swearing?


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 19, 2005)

Possibly all three?


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## sophist (Aug 23, 2005)

Hello?


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 23, 2005)

Hello! How are you? 

It's been a busy week for me, but I was also kind of hoping for someone else to post.


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## sophist (Aug 24, 2005)

Seems to be thus for everyone.

*Anouncement:*
I am away from 30.8.2005 to 7.9.2005 (time for my holidays  ).

For the after that I decided on a "stricter" policy. Everyone who does not post at least once per week will be removed from the game, unless they said they'd be away. I think that should be few posts enough to handle for everyone.  

Edit: so in 2 weeks time i will change the play contract to that effect.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 24, 2005)

Lichtenhart hasn't even gotten back, has he?


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## Amy Kou'ai (Aug 25, 2005)

I'm back -- have been making appointments and stuff the first half of the week, so.

I'm kind of thinking it would be nice if you could tell us what possible issues we might have, party-wise, and then we could actually set to solving them if necessary?


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 25, 2005)

Well, we have to go to your castle, which (for the rest of us, anyway) has entailed giving a description of it. This helps to map out our Chancel, which is an important issue.


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## Charles Rampant (Aug 29, 2005)

What the game needs is a conflict - something for us to follow and deal with. The dark man thing is quietly simmering, but we need something to 'quest' on. At the moment we are kind of idleing.


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## Jdvn1 (Aug 29, 2005)

Well, I'm sure there'll be conflict at the party. Nothing _ever_ goes to plan in my experience.  There are also the littler conflicts in each castle, what with the recent 'changes' of each domain.

The barbarian thing and the dark man thing I'm sure we'll get into later, and there's also the hidden features of our Imperator, and learning about the history of the chancel and such, but we haven't finished doing basic things like working out what's in our chancel. We have to do that exposition first so that we know what resources we have during the rising action.

I know Amy's been wanting to post for a couple weeks, but she's been working out the details, I think, of some stuff. She mentioned some food idea she had for the party and she seems dubious about her idea for what her chancel is like. She probably _should_ post _something_, even if it's on here, out of character, and gathering/bouncing ideas. But, alas.


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## sophist (Sep 7, 2005)

Well, I am back from Vienna.

In general, I agree with Jdvn1's analysis.


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 7, 2005)

Welcome back! I wanted to go to Vienna for a recent tournament, but it's too expensive a trip.


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## sophist (Sep 9, 2005)

So you're a top player? I admit that I never completed an expert field.

Arn't there any buget flights? mine from Hamburg to Vienna was only 29 €.

As for the game, I am thinking again of giving it a push: to end the "prelude" and launch into the adventures finally. Let's see if that increases activity again.


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 9, 2005)

I've never heard of a budget flight from the United States to Vienna, but I suppose it's a possibility. 

I've been a bit slow on my times, lately, but I'd probably rank top 50 or 60 in the world.

I know that Amy hasn't posted on EN World in quite a while, as she's been busy learning languages. She had an idea of an appetizer that would bestow Innocence upon the those who eat it, and she also seemed intimidated by the prospect of describing her chancel. But since she hasn't been on in a while regardless, I'm not sure what would bolster the game.


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 9, 2005)

I'm sorry, but while I was away my area suffered major problems on the telephone line, and they shut off internet access for a while. Now fortunately I'm back, if you'd like me still.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Sep 9, 2005)

Sorry -- I haven't checked in on this thread because for some reason I thought (for some reason) that you weren't getting back 'til next week, Sophist.

But, yes.  We can do Innocence's and Keys's castles, I think?


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## sophist (Sep 10, 2005)

Hey, hey, the core group is back. 

Let's move on to the others castles: but do YOU want to describe it like Jdvn1 did or shall i jump in. That is no problem but I gotta know.


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Hm, the core group. Sounds like we're the iconics or something. 

Assuming I could give ideas... I was thinking it'd be cool for Innocence's lands to have children playing on huge expanses of rolling hills, with a fresh crisp breeze no matter where you go.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Sep 11, 2005)

Actually, I'd kind of appreciate it if mine were described?  This is mostly because I'd like to know what the previous Innocence was like, and Alyra can renovate as necessary.


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## sophist (Sep 11, 2005)

okay i'll think of something. So far I only have a rough vision, but I am sure that I can detail it.


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## sophist (Sep 16, 2005)

I want this imperator point to be seen, as a reward for you all. Lichtenhart surely contributed to my feeling that I had to give you something "tangible" (not quite a character point yet, but something), but it's the sum of all your efforts.


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 16, 2005)

That was a cool scene. And Lichtenhart brings home the trophy! Cool.


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 16, 2005)

I'm sorry I made you wait so much for it.  

So how should we use it? To heal our Empress from her wounds, buying back the Failing defect? Or is there something else that would be appropriate? Maybe an Empathy gift?


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Feel free to NPC my character. Rita's chasing me out of Houston, so I'll be gone a few days.


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 26, 2005)

Woo, things turned out okay. 

A Noble isn't scared of a pansy hurricane!


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## sophist (Sep 28, 2005)

Well this time I caught myself a cold getting totaly soaked while having my coat at home. However, being confined at home alone, where I have no net, I am bored out of my mind and decided to drop in on an relatively nearby internet cafe: I will update the threads today.


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 29, 2005)

Yikes, get better!


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## sophist (Sep 29, 2005)

<See the Parable of the Lamp, Nobilis Book p.184> ...

Well basically, I finally completed what Diadora says, if and only if you get her
the Imperator Point but I noticed that none decided what to do with the point.


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## sophist (Sep 29, 2005)

While looking at the forum, I see that another Nobilis game has started. Torn between
jealousy and relief, it feed me to see my own game in new perspective.

Now that this languishing game is nearing irrelevancy, Diadoras speech needs
major rewriting. Cutting away all detours and build-ups, we'll see where that
leads me (us?).


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 29, 2005)

The other Nobilis game was a game that Amy, I, and a few others started over the summer as a non-PbP game. Inspired by this game, we thought this might be a good medium to carry on the game we started as a PbP game.

What can we do with an Imperator point? I think getting it to our Imperator is a good idea.


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 29, 2005)

Glad to see you back Jdvn, I was quite worried for you. 

And i understand you perfectly sophist, I'm never as bored as when I'm ill.

I gave the point to Diadora, anyway, my last post says:


> Then he shows him the ball of light, and if the Imperatrix shows up personally to receive it, he'll hand it to her with a bow that would make David proud.




About the imperator point, I was suggesting to use it to cure Diadora's wounds (buying back the Failing defect) or to give her something that resulted from our actions, and I think one of the Empathy gifts would work well, since we tried first and foremost to understand our new domain and its people. Whatever makes more sense to you and our HG.


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## Jdvn1 (Sep 29, 2005)

Turns out Durant came in handy. 

Lichtenhart and I were thinking either to get rid of Failing or to get Clear-Sighted, with the Imperator Point. Any other ideas?

Getting rid of Failing through a quest might be interesting, though.


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## sophist (Oct 20, 2005)

Once more, I took a long time. Please believe me that I made it not easy for myself. I finnally decied which way to go, which is to announce a whole new phase of this game,
making it easy to either go away or to continue playing.

There is a new OOC thread posted. IFF you want to go on continue there. All relevant facts that we created for each player that continues will be kept.


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## Jdvn1 (Oct 20, 2005)

I think Amy wants to continue playing but can't at this time. She might join back after the school quarter.


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## Lichtenhart (Oct 20, 2005)

Wow, Sophist. That was nothing short of brilliant. 100% still here.


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## Jdvn1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> Wow, Sophist. That was nothing short of brilliant. 100% still here.



 Seconded.


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