# OOC Against the Crimson Tide (Closed)



## Goddess FallenAngel (May 31, 2004)

I don't suppose any of you fine DM's out there want to run an Epic D&D fantasy game? I'm interested in playing one, but haven't the time to devote to running an epic game...

Help?... 


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Renamed it so it would limit confusion on rather or not it was an active game. BS


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## Telsar (May 31, 2004)

Sorry, but the idea of an epic game scares me.  All the spells that characters would have cast on themselves, all the varied feats to keep track of, the number of magic items such characters would have... very frightening.   

I run a 14th level tabletop game right now, and I long for the days they were 5th level.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (May 31, 2004)

Oh well, it was worth a try... maybe someone else would be interested....


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 31, 2004)

If you're willing to wait a week and a half, so my finals are over, I'll whip something up.  My only caveat is that I'm not going to use the Epic Spellcasting rules, because they're just broken.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (May 31, 2004)

That's okay, 'cause I think they are broken as well - I've never used them while playing, but when flipping through the section I came across a combo of 2 epic spells with which you could use to destroy a whole continent without disadvantaging yourself in the slightest. 

And if you are willing to run, I would be more than willing to wait!  

Good luck on finals!


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## Paxus Asclepius (May 31, 2004)

I have a campaign sketch and rough campaign world ideas ready; it's more homogenized than the average world, with only one pantheon, which possesses no evil deities and only one who really counts as good.  I'm drawing mostly from the Greco-Roman pantheon, to try to make the deities a little more realistic.  At the moment, the only rule I'm going to make is that I'd like to stick to conventional races if possible.  How many other players did you have in mind, and did you have a level preference?  My inclination was 25th, which is powerful enough to use most things in the ELH without being so powerful you walk all over anything that isn't a hecatoncheires.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 1, 2004)

Sounds interesting, and I have been eagerly awaiting a chance to try out the ELH ever since I got it.  If this campaign does get off the ground, any chance of getting in on it?


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 1, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I have a campaign sketch and rough campaign world ideas ready; it's more homogenized than the average world, with only one pantheon, which possesses no evil deities and only one who really counts as good. I'm drawing mostly from the Greco-Roman pantheon, to try to make the deities a little more realistic. At the moment, the only rule I'm going to make is that I'd like to stick to conventional races if possible. How many other players did you have in mind, and did you have a level preference? My inclination was 25th, which is powerful enough to use most things in the ELH without being so powerful you walk all over anything that isn't a hecatoncheires.



25th level is fine, last time I played Epic I played up to 24th, so I can kinda pick up where that left off.    As far as number of players, I am fine with two (including myself) up to however many you care to DM for - although my inclination is usually for games with 3 to 7 players, including myself. 

Hi, Ghostknight! *waves*


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 1, 2004)

Let's keep things cozy, then.  Aside you and Ghostknight, I'll recruit two more, then close it.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 1, 2004)

Sounds good! Just so I can decide on the character concept I want (I have about 4 floating around): Core races only (I think you said) and what books do you allow? Also, PRC's allowed?


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## silentspace (Jun 1, 2004)

I'd like to join


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## Ghostknight (Jun 1, 2004)

Cool, now what kind of campaign set-up are we going for?  Good aligned/evil aligned/neutral?  Political/ongoing adventures/artifact hunting or anything else the rather robust and deific mind of the GM can think of?

Me, I like any kind of game and will create a character appropriate to your vision for the campaign!

(Oh yeah, epic level play - can't say I've done this since we were really young and decided to make characters to go hunting Gods - what can I say, the first edition Deities and Demigods was just a set of stats for really powerful monsters(or so we thought at the age of 12))


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 1, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> Cool, now what kind of campaign set-up are we going for? Good aligned/evil aligned/neutral? Political/ongoing adventures/artifact hunting or anything else the rather robust and deific mind of the GM can think of?
> 
> Me, I like any kind of game and will create a character appropriate to your vision for the campaign!



Same here - the character concepts I have can be applied to most types of games, and I can always think up a new one! *There's all sorts of things I want to play with epic level*


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 1, 2004)

I would also like to play, if I can get in.  I was thinking of an epic druid, just because that would be cool.


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## Pyrex (Jun 1, 2004)

Provided it's not full yet I'd also like to play.  I've got a whole stack of epic ideas I'd like to try.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 1, 2004)

Not that I really need this but another epic game could be interesting depending upon how things workout...

I think right now I would be on the list as an alternate, and that's fine with me. 

As for concepts: I don't really know till I see more of the settings background and history but probably something simple this time:

So probably a human with a sharp pointing object. 

Probably something more knightly than but everything’s subject to change.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 1, 2004)

It looks like silentspace and Isida are the other two players, with Pyrex and Brother Shatterstone being the alternates.  You can have good, non-chaotic neutral, or lawful evil characters: basically anyone who is willing to work with major authorities figures (at your power level, that means the gods and not much else) and has at least a slight vested interest in maintaining order and peace.  I will allow portions of the BoED and BoVD; the prestige classes mostly don't apply, given the different pantheonic setup (as a side note, there aren't any fiends loose in the world, so neither fiend-hunters nor fiend-worshippers are present), but spells, feats, and magical items are acceptable subject to veto.  The Draconomicon is fair game (at least the player's sections of it), as is Complete Warrior.  I am willing to use the Holy Warrior class from the Book of the Righteous, should it be desired.  No psionics are in use, and as previously noted, the Epic Spellcasting feat is also out.  Any other material you wish to use, simply email to me and I will review it.  One ten-level prestige class will be allowed, and any number of five-levels (provided that all PrCs are taken to the maximum extent feasible); more than that is more powermongering than roleplaying.  

Brief notes on the campaign world: it's fairly homogenized, and resembles a combination of Greek and Roman societal features.  There are a small number of nations, each of mixed standard races; the various other humanoids are slaves, whether used for scut-work (e.g., goblins and kobolds) or as janissary troops (e.g., hobgoblins).  Between the political control of the temples and the economic control of the Wizard's Guild, the world is quite stable, almost stagnant.  Your characters will be extremely exceptional, essentially unrivaled among mortals.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 1, 2004)

*will wait to choose character concept until finds out what others are playing*


PA - should I play a cleric or other divine-related class, what should I use as far as gods?  You had mentioned Greco-Roman, but that can mean different things.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 1, 2004)

*Waves*  Straight druid with possible Shifter tendencies over here.  Probably human.

Wait, are we 3.0 or 3.5?


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## silentspace (Jun 1, 2004)

Aww, too bad.  I wanted to try out the Cerebremancer from the Expanded Psionics Handbook.  

Right now I don't have a specific character in mind.  I'll flip through the books and see if anything catches my attention.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> It looks like silentspace and Isida are the other two players, with Pyrex and Brother Shatterstone being the alternates.




Cool.   I'll probaly won't fallow this thread for to long but I imagine you know how to get ahold of me.


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

OK, I think I'm gonna go Bladesinger from Complete Warrior.  Does anyone know if there is an epic progression for that class?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if there is an epic progression for that class?



They haven't released on for epic levels for the complete warrior version...  I'm not sure how much, if anything changed, so here's a link for the epic level progression for the original PrC. 

link 

Hit the download...


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Thanks.  The class has changed quite a bit though, in the spellcasting progression, so that doesn't look too applicable anymore.  I'll just go straight wizard in the epic levels I guess


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Thanks.  The class has changed quite a bit though, in the spellcasting progression, so that doesn't look too applicable anymore.  I'll just go straight wizard in the epic levels I guess



Figured as much, but I tossed it out there for completeness... The ELH does show how to expanded upon a 10th level PrC for epic levels.  PA is rather good at listening to his players so maybe you can work something out if you want to put the work in on it...   

Also just so you know, PA said no epic spells.


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Thinking about a Sun Elf Swashbuckler/Wizard/Bladesinger...

Classes
Levels 1-3: Swashbuckler 3
Levels 4-10: Wizard 7
Levels 11-20: Bladesinger 10
Levels 21-25: Wizard 12

Feats
Level 1: Combat Casting
Level 3: Combat Expertise
Level 6: Dodge
Level 9: Weapon Focus Rapier
Level 12: Improved Initiative
Level 15: ?
Level 18: ?
Level 21: Dire Charge
Level 24: Epic Weapon Focus
Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse
Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll
Wizard 5: ?
Wizard 10: ?

If this character has a 30 Intelligence,
- Bladesong Style will give +10 to AC at 10th Level Bladesinger
- Insightful Strike will give +10 damage

Effective Wizard level will be 17 (casts 9th level spells)

BAB +16/+11/+6/+1 (4 attacks, but not so high bab)
EAB +3
Fort +8
Ref +10
Will +14

Thinking about it, it might be better to go straight wizard for 25 levels...


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 2, 2004)

Epic level progression is usually just a continuation of any reoccuring bonuses/abilities. I don't have the Complete Warrior in front of me at the moment, but if you get a +1 to _x ability_ every 3 levels, then that would continue into epic levels, etc. The epic progression of most classes isn't all that exciting (in my humble opinion).

Okay, right now I am leaning towards one of these two characters:

- A fighter/weapon master with the scythe - a cool, calm, and collected follower of the God of death (Hades?) or war (Mars?). Alignment: True Neutral. (Weapon Master is in Sword and Fist - I don't think that they have re-written it anywhere.)

- A favored soul of the God whose domain includes dance and joy (Venus, maybe?). (Favored Soul from the Mini's Handbook.)

Any comments/suggestions?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> The epic progression of most classes isn't all that exciting (in my humble opinion).



Agreed or downright impossible do to a lack of increasing powers... 



			
				Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> A favored soul of the God whose domain includes dance and joy (Venus, maybe?). (Favored Soul from the Mini's Handbook.)




PA doesn't have this book, or at least he didn't but he's well versed in it.   (PA if you need the information again let me know)



			
				Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> Any comments/suggestions?



So will the angel get its wings?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 2, 2004)

Goddess: Here's a list of the gods: god of the forge, (domains Craft, Earth, Fire, Metal), the god of the roads, trade, and knowledge (Knowledge, Magic, Travel, Trade), the god of the sea (Ocean, Storm, Water), the goddess of the hunt (Animal, Bestial, Moon), the goddess of chance (Chaos, Fate, Luck, Trickery), the god of kings and justice (Law, Nobility, Retribution, War, Wrath), the goddess of the hearth (Community, Family, Good, Healing, Protection), the goddess of fertility (Charm, Earth, Healing, Pleasure), the god of the sun (Air, Celestial, Glory, Sun).  These gods don't have names yet, but they will at some point.  Domains you don't recognize are drawn from the BoED, the BoVD, and the FR campaign setting.

Silentspace: A Bladesinger epic progression could be made; it would increase the spell which can be quickened to 6th at 12th level, 8th at 16th, 9th at 20th, give 1/2 caster progression, and give bonus feats at every third level.  One thing to note; because the Wizard's Guild is so powerful, it has become rather stratified; in order to advance in the ranks, it's usually necessary to either be a specialist wizard, or to have a large number of item creation feats.  Of course, if you'd rather not be involved in Guild politics, that's one way to do it.  If you choose to be a specialist, feel free to use any of the Unearthed Arcana variant specialist benefits; they can be supplied if you don't own the book.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 2, 2004)

Paxus, 3.0 or 3.5 rules?


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jun 2, 2004)

Is there still a slot in this game?  If so, I'd love to try out an epic level character.  Maybe something divine in nature.  If there's no slots left, sign me up as an alternate.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 2, 2004)

Nac, you are alternate #3.  Isida, it's basically 3.5, with minor alterations/throwbacks (the only one I can think of offhand is that the paladin's mount is not summoned, but remains with the paladin).


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 2, 2004)

Cool.  I think I shall be a human druid who has spent time both in the deep wilderness, changing into the shapes of the wild beasts, and in the city, in the shapes of rats and dogs, and thus can be comfortable in both worlds.  I'm going to go straight druid, right up into epic levels most likely.


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Thanks for the epic progression.

Some questions:
- what's the point buy?
- how do we calculate hp?
- starting gold is 2,100,000?
- do we have extra xp for item creation?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 2, 2004)

Let's do 32 point buy, hp are average values after 1st (1d4=2.5, 1d6=3.5, 1d8=4.5, etc.), that's the right amount of cash, and items that you can create cost 60% of the normal market value, no xp cost.  Likewise, if you can cast a permanent spell on yourself, it costs 5 gp per xp it would normally require.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 2, 2004)

So so far we have druid and possibly cleric (covers divine side), fighter/mage type (the wizard swashbuckler) and possible fighter.

I am thinking either a wizard who loves item creation or a fighter/rogue taking the Guardian Paramount class from the ELH.

Hmm, which would be better for the overall group?  I am happy with either!  (Yep, that wizard IS going to be a dwarf if made!  Gotta do this one even f never used - Just imagine the possibilities....)


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jun 2, 2004)

If I end up playing at some point, I'm considering playing some variation on a Druid5/Warshaper5/Shifter15.  Almost no spellcasting, but the ability to turn into anything of 25HD or under, and gain ALL abilities except for spell-like.  That's just fun.  If allowed I'd also take vow of poverty, which gives a nice bonus to natural attacks.


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm going to switch from Bladesinger to a straight wizard.  Maybe incantatrix (Players Guide to Faerun) for a prestige class.  And the Celestial Familiar feat (Book of Exalted Deeds)


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 2, 2004)

Alright, we need a fighter, so I am going with a human fighter15/weapon master10. Instead of the other levels of fighter I may start on a epic prestige class, if I can find one that I am interested in. I am probably just going to plan to finish out fighter and go epic fighter, however.

PA, let me know if this character sketch is acceptable with your world: (not finished history)

She uses a scythe and mainly follows the God of Kings & Justice, with more focus on the Retribution and Justice aspects. She gives full respect and offers prayers to the whole pantheon, however. She grew up the daughter of a farmer; however, her home and family were destroyed in a meaningless border war when she was 12. Orphened and homeless, Domina took up the only weapon she knew, the scythe, and joined the opposing army disguised as a boy for revenge. She was trained in a variety of weapons and fought in battles for 4 years before her masqurade was discovered, at which point she left that petty noble's forces and traveled to the capital, once again taking up her original weapon, the scythe. She spent many years in the capital and other major cities, fighting for one war or another; a mercenary for hire. She has become quite accomplished in the art of war, and has far surpassed everyone she has ever known in skill. Now, she searches for a true challenge in battle, and to uphold her chosen morals: justice and retribution.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

I guess I should toss out my idea even though the chances of playing aren’t the greatest... 

Anyhow, I'm pretty open to race and this will explain later, but I'm pretty certain I'm going, or would go, ranger.  I would say straight though to epic levels but that's always so hard of me to do...   but it is the plan. 

I've wanted to have an integrated history, sibling or spouse, with someone for so long now* that I would be pretty open to any race, sex, etc to make this happen...  It might be harder to explain my absence in the beginning but could be more seamless of a translation if I entered the game later than the rest…

Thoughts?

* Isida and I where very close to doing it in one game but are choices of race simply made it impossible.   (I wanted to be a Saurial, and Isida had picked Svirfneblin.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 2, 2004)

Hmm, since the arcane caster and fighter slots are used, I think I will go with the rogue/assasin slot (one perfect wight coming up...)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 2, 2004)

Goddess: That background is fine.

Silentspace: I don't own the Player's Guide, so if you could email me the class?  Celestial Familiar is fine, but exalted characters are very, very rare, so you're going to stick out even more than most epic characters.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 2, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I guess I should toss out my idea even though the chances of playing aren’t the greatest...
> 
> Anyhow, I'm pretty open to race and this will explain later, but I'm pretty certain I'm going, or would go, ranger. I would say straight though to epic levels but that's always so hard of me to do...  but it is the plan.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but my character history kinda doesn't go for that. (Although this is the first non-evil character with no family or other past connections I've played in a long time)


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 2, 2004)

I might go fighter10/weapon master10/cleric 5... The more I think about this character, the more devoted to her God she gets...


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Paxus, could you post your email address?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> Sorry, but my character history kinda doesn't go for that.




I know,   I posted my idea after your history was posted but hey thanks for reading my dribble...


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Making epic characters sure is a lot of work!  Ok, so we have a sneaky type, a nature type, a slice and dice machine, and a mage type.  I'm thinking Enkai should take a cohort, to keep us all healed up and stuff.  We need a medic!

Enkai is a human diviner/incantatrix, prohibited schools: enchantment and illusion, focus in evocation spells.  Enkai is a firm believer in the Goddess of Chance.  Enkai lives a carefree life.  While others fret and worry, Enkai does not.  He's done all the worrying he can do already, and the rest is up to, well, it's up to Chance!  Listening to the Sages as a young child, Enkai learned 'only the strong survive'.  But as a keen observer of life and of the worlds, Enkai came to the conclusion that 'only the lucky survive'!  Hence his carefree lifestyle, and his steadfast devotion to the Goddess of Chance.

Enkai is CG.  Paxus, what's the Goddess of Chance's symbol and favored weapon?  If it's a simple weapon, he might use one.


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Don't make it a simple weapon on my account though!


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Paxus, could you post your email address?



Well, I know his email address but I'm unwilling to list it, but he did say for you to email him so if you list yours I will gladly email it you.   (As it might save you some time on approval)


and yeah, epic level characters are a pain to make...


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Thanks Shatterstone, my email is silentspace@yahoo.com


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 2, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Thanks Shatterstone, my email is silentspace@yahoo.com



done, and your welcome.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 2, 2004)

Sigh, no Perfect Wight....Self Concealment is a requisite and needs 30 ranks in three different skills (So minimum 27th level to take it!).  And yet the class is happy with 24 Ranks in two of those skills - editing for this book really should have been tightened up!  

So I guess I will be an epic infiltrator (Either Rogue only or Rogue/ShadowDancer - dont see how an evil character will mix too well with an exalted one!)


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## Pyrex (Jun 2, 2004)

The current ruling from the Sage (iirc) is that long-term buffs (i.e. stat boost items) count.

However, if you take off the item (or take ability damage) you lose access to all feats / class abilities that are keyed off of that prereq.


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## silentspace (Jun 2, 2004)

Ghostknight, try the Void Incarnate from the Wizard's Website

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030810a


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 3, 2004)

Also, in case anyone is interested and doesn't already know: here is the link for the SRD Epic Prestige classes section that has updated progressions for 3.5 DMG PRCs. http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/EpicPrestigeClasses.rtf


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 3, 2004)

Hmm... also, another question - are we using the SRD or the ELH hardcopy? The reason I ask is that some things have changed... (like the description of certain feats I was thinking of getting...)


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 3, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> Hmm... also, another question - are we using the SRD or the ELH hardcopy?



SRD is errata in superceded the book.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 3, 2004)

Assume SRD, but if there's a conflict that you think shouldn't have been corrected, call it to my attention and I'll look at it.  My email should be in my user profile.  The goddess of chance's favored weapon is the sling.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 3, 2004)

Just wondering, thanks.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> My email should be in my user profile.




This was turned of sometime ago and at the same time that instant email nonfictions went away... 

You can't even report a post right now...  Try to report mine.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 3, 2004)

How aggravating.  Did they say why?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> How aggravating.  Did they say why?



They turned of the nonfictions without real warning to try and speed up the boards, in my opinion it hasn't helped, but when they turned off the notifications service it also took out another of other services as well...

I try and track down a few links but I've since lost the subscriptions to the thread...

My opinion is expressed more there.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 3, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I try and track down a few links but I've since lost the subscriptions to the thread...




Wow meta hardly moves anymore...  link


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## Ghostknight (Jun 3, 2004)

Hmm, the void incarnate looks interesting so the question goes to the DM, is this in or out?  (It is outside the core rules so in or out?)


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## silentspace (Jun 3, 2004)

Well, he just disallowed the 3.5 Incantatrix.  It took me so long to type that up for him too!


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 3, 2004)

I will allow the void incarnate; it's powerful, but given the loss of sneak attack progression (and thus the reduction of ability to bypass uncanny dodge), I'm inclined to say not overpowerful.

Silentspace, while I understand your aggravation, I'd just like to explain why, precisely, I felt the incantatrix overpowered.  I assume that, at 25th level, you will have a +12 Int mod,  (17 base, +5 from a Tome, +6 from an item, +6 from levels) and maximum ranks in Spellcraft.  With the Incantatrix abilities, I'd also imagine that you'd be likely to pick up a +15 item of circumstance bonus to Spellcraft, and possibly to acquire Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft.  With those collectively, you would have a +65 modifier to your Spellcraft roll, and thus be able to, 15 times a day, apply metamagic modifiers to your ongoing spells and those of your fellow party member that would increase the spell to 16th level with no chance of failure, to 19th if not in combat and able to take 10.  The idea of numerous Intensified, Empowered, Extended Elemental Swarms isn't something that seems balanced to me, nor a Persistent Shapechange or three.  It may be that I have a more min-maxing mindset than you do, and if so I understand why the class didn't look overpowered to you, but 19th level metamagics are a frightening, frightening thing to a DM.


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## silentspace (Jun 3, 2004)

Honestly, I didn't know you could do all that.  You can have a +15 item of circumstance bonus to a skill?  Do you need to take an epic feat to do that?  And I didn't know wizards could cast Elemental Swarm.  And I don't know what an Intensified spell is.  And Persistent Spell is +6 levels now.

Regarding your explanation, that's fine.  The only reason I wanted to take a prestige class at all was for flavor reasons, over playing a straightforward wizard.  If you feel the Incantatrix is overpowered, that's fine.  Personally, I don't, as we are playing a 25th level game, and rods of metamagic are really cheap.

Regarding my 'aggravation', all I said was that it took me a long time to type up.  First I emailed scanned files to you, but you told me to type it up so I did.  If that comment bothers you, then I don't know what I can do for you.  Are you the one who sent me that email?  If so, then I can only assume that either you don't like arcanists, or you don't like me.  Neither of which bodes well for me in this game.  I don't know why either of these would be the case, but that e-mail was kind of nasty.  



			
				Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I will allow the void incarnate; it's powerful, but given the loss of sneak attack progression (and thus the reduction of ability to bypass uncanny dodge), I'm inclined to say not overpowerful.
> 
> Silentspace, while I understand your aggravation, I'd just like to explain why, precisely, I felt the incantatrix overpowered.  I assume that, at 25th level, you will have a +12 Int mod,  (17 base, +5 from a Tome, +6 from an item, +6 from levels) and maximum ranks in Spellcraft.  With the Incantatrix abilities, I'd also imagine that you'd be likely to pick up a +15 item of circumstance bonus to Spellcraft, and possibly to acquire Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft.  With those collectively, you would have a +65 modifier to your Spellcraft roll, and thus be able to, 15 times a day, apply metamagic modifiers to your ongoing spells and those of your fellow party member that would increase the spell to 16th level with no chance of failure, to 19th if not in combat and able to take 10.  The idea of numerous Intensified, Empowered, Extended Elemental Swarms isn't something that seems balanced to me, nor a Persistent Shapechange or three.  It may be that I have a more min-maxing mindset than you do, and if so I understand why the class didn't look overpowered to you, but 19th level metamagics are a frightening, frightening thing to a DM.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 3, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Are you the one who sent me that email?  If so, then I can only assume that either you don't like arcanists, or you don't like me.




No it was me, it was also the secound time I had emailed you so I didn't identfy myself as well as I probaly shoud have.  I thought I had posted in here saying to be on the lookout for my email but it seems like it was lost...  I probaly forgot why I had that window open.  



			
				silentspace said:
			
		

> Neither of which bodes well for me in this game.  I don't know why either of these would be the case, but that e-mail was kind of nasty.



Neither of that is true, I said I would be more than wiling to type up any PrC for in the future...  That didn't strike me as being rude but I will apologize for my bluntness, so sorry.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 3, 2004)

The only reason I had you type it up was because my email refused to open the attachment you first sent; I've typed up a couple PrCs myself, and it's not a task I'd give to anyone if I had another alternative.  I assure you, I have nothing against arcanists or you.  You're right that metamagic rods are extremely powerful, but I think that says more about the power of metamagic rods than it does for the balance of the Incantatrix.  Would anyone be heartbroken if I removed rods of metamagic from the game?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 3, 2004)

Goddess, a couple changes I'm making to the Weaponmaster PrC for 3.5; A) the Superior Weapon Focus become a bonus Greater Weapon Focus feat (and so can be used as prereq for Epic Weapon Focus), and the Ki Critical ability increases the crit multiplier by the same amount that Improved Critical does (so if you have both with the scythe, threat range is 18-20, not 17-20).


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## silentspace (Jun 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> The only reason I had you type it up was because my email refused to open the attachment you first sent; I've typed up a couple PrCs myself, and it's not a task I'd give to anyone if I had another alternative.  I assure you, I have nothing against arcanists or you.  You're right that metamagic rods are extremely powerful, but I think that says more about the power of metamagic rods than it does for the balance of the Incantatrix.  Would anyone be heartbroken if I removed rods of metamagic from the game?




Ah, there go all my arcanist concepts.  I guess there's still the crafter archetype I can go for.  Regarding those +15 skill items you mentioned, how big a bonus can you get with a pre-epic craft feat?

And if my wizard starts crafting his items, can he do it for the others in the party too?  If so he'll probably take Craft Arms and Armor.


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## silentspace (Jun 3, 2004)

Maybe it's time for a different concept.  Are Mystic Theurges ok?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

I will allow the Mystic Theurge, but its epic progression will not grant any bonus feats whatsoever.  You may craft items for others in the party if you have a common history.  I believe that +15 is the highest bonus that can be granted by a non-epic skill booster; I'd have sworn that it was a circumstance bonus, but my SRD is now claiming that it's a competence bonus.  Does anyone own the actual 3.5 books, so I can compare?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Does anyone own the actual 3.5 books, so I can compare?



Sure, boss, I would ask for a page number but that would probably just get me the look of death... :lol 

So what section is it in the SRD?  (Should, if WotC does have half a brain be under the same area of the book)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values in SRD Magic Items I, the Shadow, Silent Moves, and Slick armor qualities in SRD Magic Items II, the Ring of Jumping, in the SRD Magic Items III, and a number of skill-boosters in the SRD Magic Items V.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 4, 2004)

Oops cool missed it when I went through.  Your table lists it as *competence* as do the various armor skill boosters and the boots of striding and spring that hit myself with for being so stupid...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 4, 2004)

Ok, I have my character's stats and whatnot written up, and I shall be typing them up here shortly.  She will be a 25th level druid with a dire tiger animal companion.  I also took many of the wild feats from Masters of the Wild and used spells and magical items both from that source and Magic of Faerun.  I can e-mail you anything you like.

I also wanted to take Magical Beast Wild Shape, but it requires Beast Wild Shape.  However, there are no more beasts in 3.5.  Should I ignore that prereq or would you want to substitute another, or would you prefer I not take it at all?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

From the Epic SRD:

MAGICAL BEAST WILD SHAPE [WILD][EPIC]
Prerequisites: Wis 25, Knowledge (nature) 27 ranks, wild shape 6/day. 
Benefit: The character can use his or her normal wild shape ability to take the form of a magical beast. The size limitation is the same as the character’s limitation on animal size. The character gains all supernatural abilities of the magical beast whose form he or she takes.

EDIT: Removed a caveat which I decided against.


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## silentspace (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I will allow the Mystic Theurge, but its epic progression will not grant any bonus feats whatsoever.  You may craft items for others in the party if you have a common history.  I believe that +15 is the highest bonus that can be granted by a non-epic skill booster; I'd have sworn that it was a circumstance bonus, but my SRD is now claiming that it's a competence bonus.  Does anyone own the actual 3.5 books, so I can compare?




So what is the progression?  I haven't seen it but I think I read here on the boards that the epic progression is pretty bad.  Does anyone have a link?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

The epic progression is the same as the pre-epic progression; 2+Int skill points/level, d4 hit die, and +1 level of divine and arcane caster.


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## silentspace (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> The epic progression is the same as the pre-epic progression; 2+Int skill points/level, d4 hit die, and +1 level of divine and arcane caster.




Ok, I'm working on it..


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 4, 2004)

Updated Wild Empathy, adjusted price for Death Ward and added two more enhancements to my armor (making it +3 instead of +1), removed Warning quality, increased cost of Dispelling quality, removed Disarming quality, added Ghost Touch quality.  I agree with your changes to the spells.  I removed the metamagic rod from my items, used it to buy the Death Ward quality and used the rest of the money to buy a ring of minor universal elemental resistance for my animal companion.  Added caveat for _spellstaff_ and changed minor things in history.  History still in flux.

*Fairweather
Female Human Druid 25*
*Alignment:* Neutral Good
*Patron Deity:* 
*Region:* 
*Height:* 5' 5''
*Weight:* 142lbs
*Hair:* Sandy Brown
*Eyes:* Dark Green
*Age:* 47

*Str:* 10 (+0) [2 points]  
*Dex:* 10 (+0) [2 points]
*Con:* 11 (+0) [3 point] 
*Int:* 15 (+2) [6 points, +1 age]  
*Wis:* 35 (+12) [13 points, +6 levels, +6 periapt, +5 tome, +1 age] 
*Cha:* 20 (+5) [6 points, +5 tome, +1 age] 

*Class and Racial Abilities:*
No favored class, additional feat at 1st level, 4 skill points at 1st level and +1 skill point per level thereafter.  Nature Sense, Wild Empathy (+30), Animal Companion, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature’s Lure, Wild Shape 6/day (Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge, plant), Elemental Wild Shape 3/day (Small, Medium, Large, Huge), Timeless Body, Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces

*Hit Dice:* 25d8 
*HP:* 104
*AC:* 20 (+0 Dex, +6 armor, +5 deflection [from ring])
*Init:* +0 (+0 Dex)
*Speed:* 30ft 

*Saves:*
Fortitude +19 [+14 base, +0 Con, +5 from cloak]
Reflex +13 [+8 base, +0 Dex, +5 from cloak]
Will +31 [+14 base, +12 Wis, +5 from cloak]

*BAB:* +18/+13/+8
*Melee Atk:* +23/+18/+13 (1d6+5+1d6 [all subdual]/19-20/x2/B, Oakhammer)  
*Ranged Atk:* +23/+18/+13 (1d4+5/x2/100 ft./B, Nevermiss)

*Skills:*
Concentration +28 [28 ranks, +0 Con]
Diplomacy +33 [28 ranks, +5 Cha]
Handle Animal +35 [28 ranks, +5 Cha, +2 Animal Affinity]
Knowledge (nature) +34 [28 ranks, +2 Int, +2 Nature Sense, +2 synergy]
Listen +22 [10 ranks, +12 Wis]
Ride +34 [28 ranks, +0 Dex, +2 military saddle, +2 synergy, +2 Animal Affinity]
Spot +23 [11 ranks, +12 Wis]
Survival +42 [28 ranks, +12 Wis, +2 Nature Sense, (additional +2 synergy in aboveground natural environments)]

*Feats:*
Animal Affinity (human bonus)
Combat Casting (1st level)
Create Infusion (MotW) (3rd level)
Natural Spell (6th level)
Fast Wild Shape (MotW) (9th level)
Blindsight (MotW) (12th level)
Scent (MotW) (15th level)
Eschew Material Components (18th level)
Gargantuan Wild Shape (21st level)
Diminuative Wild Shape (24th level)
Magical Beast Wild Shape (24th epic druid bonus)

*Languages:*  Common, Druidic, Sylvan, Elven

*Spells Prepared*
Save DC +12
0th - _dawn (MotW), fire eyes (MotW), detect magic, detect poison, create water, know direction._
1st - _wood wose (MotW), sand blast (MotW), longstrider, pass without trace, goodberry, speed swim (MaoF), faerie fire, shillelagh._
2nd - _lesser restoration, warp wood, adrenaline surge (MotW), briar web (MotW), body of the sun (MotW), blood frenzy (MaoF), heat metal, animal messenger._
3rd - _greater magic fang x4, tortise shell (MaoF), nature’s favor (MotW), false bravado (MotW), call lightning._
4th - _cure serious wounds x3, waterball (MotW), forestfold (MotW), feathers (MotW), land womb (MaoF), wind at back (MaoF)._
5th - _baleful polymorph, vine mine (MaoF), big sky (MotW), cloak of the sea (MotW), death ward, monstrous regeneration (MaoF), wall of thorns._
6th - _spellstaff, stonehold (MaoF), regenerate circle (MotW), find the path, stone tell, transport via plants._
7th – _master earth (MaoF), storm tower (MaoF), greater creeping cold (MotW), heal, changestaff, wind walk._
8th – _bombardment (MaoF), speak with anything (MotW), earthquake, whirlwind, mass cure serious wounds, repel metal or stone._
9th – _cast in stone (MaoF), thunderswarm (MotW), nature’s avatar (MotW), shapechange, regenerate._

Fairweather casts _greater magic fang_ on Kessian’s teeth and both claws each morning, and on her own teeth in the morning as well.  If possible, she will also put a _shapechange_ in her quarterstaff via _spellstaff_ every day (if she has used it the previous day).  Also, she casts _wood wose_ every morning.

In addition, Fairweather has created a bogun she calls Mossflower.

*Mossflower
Tiny Construct*
*Hit Dice:* 2d10 (11 hp)
*Initiative:*  +3
*Speed:*  20 ft., fly 50 ft. (good)
*AC:*  15 (+3 Dex, +2 size)
*Attacks:*  Nettles +1 melee
*Damage:*  Nettles 1d4-2 and poison (Fort DC 11, 1d6 Dex/ 1d6 Dex)
*Face/Reach:*  2 ½ ft./ 0ft.
*Special Attacks:*  Poison
*Special Qualities:*  Construct traits
*Saves:*  Fort +0, Ref +3, Wil +1
*Abilities:*  Str 7, Dex 16, Con -, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10

*Equipment:*
*Wildhide (as +3 wild, aquatic [water-breathing], death ward (MaoF) leather armor of ease (MotW))* – 125,360gp
*Oakhammer (as +5 impact, merciful (MaoF), dispelling (MaoF), ghost touch club)* – 200,300gp
*Nevermiss (as +5 distance, seeking (MaoF) sling)* – 98,300gp
*20 silver sling bullets* – 4gp
*20 cold iron sling bullets* – 2gp
*20 adamantine bullets* – 6,001gp
*20 mithril bullets* – 5,001gp
*Eye of Winking (MaoF)* – 120,000gp
*9 Pearls of Power, one for each level of spell* – 285,000gp
*Gauntlet of Rust* – 11,500gp
*Infusions* – _barkskin_, 12th level (600gp), 2 _call lightning_, 10th level (1,500gp), 2 _call lightning storm_, 15th level (3,750gp), _tree shape_, 10th level (500gp), _shapechange_ (3,825gp).
*Safety (as ring of rapid healing, featherfalling, and protection +5)* – 378,000gp
*Protection (as ring of major universal elemental resistance and evasion)* – 253,500gp
*Belt of the Sages (as periapt of wisdom +6)* – 36,000gp
*Tome of Understanding +5* – 137,000gp (used)
*Tome of Leadership and Influence +5* – 137,000gp (used)
*Bag of holding, type III* – 7,400gp
*Torc of animal speech* – 12,000gp (MotW)
*Cloak of resistance +5* – 25,000gp
*7 Wilding Clasps* – 28,000gp (MotW).  They are on both rings, the _eye of winking_, the cloak, the torc, the belt, and the gauntlet.

*Money*
7,461gp

*Kessian*
Dire Tiger
Large Animal
*Hit Dice:*  22d8+86 (189 hp)
*Initiative:*  +5
*Speed:*  40 ft. (8 squares)
*AC:*  25 (–1 size, +5 Dex, +13 natural, +1 insight, +4 armor), touch 11, flat-footed 15
*Base Attack/Grapple:*  +16/+33
*Attack:*  Claw +29 melee (2d4+11)
*Full Attack:*  2 claws +29 melee (2d4+11) and bite +27 melee (2d6+5)
*Space/Reach:*  10 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:*  Improved grab, pounce, rake 2d4+5
*Special Qualities:*  Low-light vision, scent
*Saves:*  Fort +25, Ref +26, Will +20
*Abilities:*  Str 32, Dex 20, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 10
*Skills:*  Hide +10*, Jump +17, Listen +12, Move Silently +14, Spot +12, Swim +13
*Feats:*  Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Run, Stealthy, Weapon Focus (claw), Weapon Focus (bite), Improved Natural Armor
*Environment:*  Warm forests
*Organization:*  Solitary 
*Challenge Rating:*  8
*Carrying Capacity:*  Light load – 2,400lbs. or less, Medium load – 2,401- 4,800lbs., Heavy load – 4,801 – 7,200lbs., Kessian can drag 36,000lbs.  

Kessian is an enormous tiger with subtle markings in burnt orange and sable.  Bony spikes surround his eyes and run down his shoulders and spine.  Oftentimes he wears leather armor, carefully cut and stiched to mimic his own coloration.  An elaborate saddle, cut to be comfortable to him, often perches on his back, and a sturdy collar of iron-studded leather encircles his neck.  Seven _ioun stones_ of various colors circle his head constantly; Kessian sometimes catches them to amuse himself.  He is utterly ferocious with nearly everyone except Fairweather and her chosen companions.  With Faithweather he is little more than a big housecat that adores having his belly and ears scratched.

*Tricks Known:*  Armor, Attack, Down, Heel, Come, Defend, Hold, Subdue, Stalk, Assist Attack.

*Improved Grab (Ex):*  To use this ability, a dire tiger must hit with its bite attack.  It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.  If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.

*Pounce (Ex):*  If a dire tiger charges, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.

*Rake (Ex):*  Attack bonus +18 melee, damage 2d4+4.

*Skills:*  Dire tigers have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks.  *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8.  

*Gear:*  +2 exotic leather barding (4,190gp), _collar of resistance +5_ (MotW, 12,250gp), _clear spindle ioun stone_ (sustains without food or water, 4,000gp), _dusty rose prism ioun stone_ (+1 insight bonus to AC, 5,000gp), _deep red sphere ioun stone_ (+2 enhancement bonus to Dex, 8,000gp), _pale blue rhomboid ioun stone_ (+2 enhancement bonus to Strength, 8,000gp), _pink rhomboid ioun stone_ (8,000gp), _iridescent spindle ioun stone_ (sustains without air, 18,000gp), _pearly white spindle ioun stone_ (regenerates 1 point of damage per hour, 20,000gp), _ring of minor universal elemental resistance_ (144,000gp).

*Animal Companion abilities:*  Link, share spells, evasion, devotion, multiattack.

*Appearance:*  Fairweather is a sturdy-looking woman with an ageless quality about her.  Her skin is weathered from a lifetime outdoors, and her hair is a simple, sandy brown.  Her eyes seem like the deep green of the innermost sanctum of the forest.  She wears leather armor neatly pieced together from over a dozen different animal hides, and walks the land with a staff in her hand a a club at her side.

*Personality:*  Fairweather is above all, a realist.  She has lived in both the most wild of wilderness and the most bustling of cities, and can find the power of nature in both places.  She is calm and in control during most times, and it takes a great deal to ruffle her feathers.  When pushed to battle, she can be as fierce as any storm, but she does not hold a grudge.  She holds a great love for Kessian, the little bits of nature she finds in the most unlikely of places, and the simple pleasures of a summer shower.

*Background:*   Fairweather was born a hunter’s daughter on the forest’s edge, the only daughter and child of Renweth Deepstrider, as his wife, Jaleen, died in childbirth.  Her first days of life were rather precarious, and her father once swore to her that she only survived because of a miracle from the heavens.  She learned to hunt and to respect her prey, as her father did, how to search in the woods for the foods she needed.  However, it was in one of her wanderings that she was confronted by a large dire mountain tiger mother with a pair of cubs.  She was certain she would die, but to her surprise, the mother tiger rubbed up against her and treated her like her own.  

Astounded, she didn’t even hear her father come up behind her.  When she heard his gasp, she whirled around.  Her father was dead white, and she asked him, fearfully, what was going on.  In a moment, Fairweather’s life was turned upside down.  Her father told her that in his sorrow over his wife’s death, and the thought of his own inability to raise a babe, he took the infant Fairweather deep into the forest and left her there in a small cave.  He returned a year later, out of remorse, and found his infant daughter being suckled by a dire mountain tiger.  He waited until the tiger left, and then stole his daughter back, sure that her survival was a sign from the gods.

At hearing this, Fairweather was troubled, and told her father she needed to find her own path.  And with that, she left with the mountain tiger.  For the next several years, she lived in the woods, learning the ways of the wild from the perspective of the beasts.  With the mother tiger, she raised one of the little cubs as her own, and called her new friend Kessian.

It was almost ten years befor the young druid emerged out of the woods again.  She found herself drawn to the cities that her father had always disparaged, determined to find out about them.  She felt that she had mastered much of the wilderness and wanted to see if she could master such an alien environment.

It took her twice as long to master the nature of the cities as it did the nature of the wild, and she lived much of that time as a dog, cat, or rat.  But it was here where she learned of the life of adventuring, and power of magic, and the strength of diversity.  In the city was where she learned to interact with different people, even those that found her native home as strange as she did the city.

After leaving her extended stay in the city, she spent the next several years adventuring and traveling all around the country.  She taught other budding young druids the secrets of woods, but she never took an apprentice, finding little amusement in traveling with those much younger and less experienced than her.  She far prefers to travel with peers, those that she will not have to protect.

Twelve years ago, when she was near her native home, she met a ranger who called himself Eedrick.  He was a far-ranging man who had had nearly as much experience in the ways of the world as she.  And like her, he knew the pain of losing a parent, as both of his had been killed in a senseless border war.  Though she initially traveled with him for a time simply to hear his stories, she grew to like the man.  He was very competent, strong, and had a deep love of the wilderness.  In addition, Kessian liked him a great deal, which sealed it.

The two have been married for over a decade and have three children, a pair of ten year-old twin sons, Rik and Gannon, and an eight year-old daughter, Irene.


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## silentspace (Jun 4, 2004)

Fairweather looks cool.

Just a note that your surrogate mother is a dire lion, while her child is a dire tiger!    

Anyway, as I understand it, you don't have to cast Shapechange on your Spellstaff each morning.  I think you can just do it once, and the next day you will have the 9th level slot to use again, plus you will have Shapechange in your staff, sort of like a scroll.

It would be good to be able to craft items for Fairweather.  Enkai (may change the name, as its tied in my mind to my last incantatrix) has Craft Wondrous Item, and a Rod of Security, which lets him disappear for lengths of time to craft.  I don't know if they would have met each other on their travels though.  Perhaps they could have met while she was in the city.  Maybe he can make the magic fangs Permanent too, if you'd rather have the spell slots.  If it works out that he'll make items for you, you may need to buy him scrolls of the prerequisite spells, since he's pretty low on cash.  But you could still save a lot, and he's already bought a lot of spells, just not anything outside of the srd.

I'll have to read up on all those feats, spells and items, they look like fun!


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

Overall, looks good, but a few notes/changes:

Your Wild Empathy score should be 30, 25 for level +5 Cha mod.

I removed metamagic rods from the list of available items, as I felt they were unbalancing.

Given that in 3.5, stunning causes the victim to drop any held objects, Sand Blast will be changed to daze those who fail their saves, not stun them.

Damage for Briar Web caps out at 1d4+10.

Nature's Favor caps out at +5.

Creatures who fail a save against Thunderswarm are not automatically stunned, but must make a Fort save against the original DC or become stunned.

Speak with Anything is from MotW.

As the cost of a use-activated, 1/day Death Ward item is 16,800, or 25,200 if added to an existing item, the cost of the Death Ward ability from MaoF is 25,200, not a +2 enhancement modifier.

As the cost of a use-activated, 1/day Dispel Magic item at caster level 10 is 12,000, the cost of the Dispelling ability from MaoF is a +2 enhancement modifier, not +1.

Warning is something I'd rather not see granted by magical items, so I will disallow it.


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## silentspace (Jun 4, 2004)

OK, I'm nearly done with my Mystic Theurge.  I was going to take the Leadership feat to get a cleric, but now as a Mystic Theurge, we probably don't need a cleric anymore.  That's 22 levels of wizard and 18 levels of cleric!  My eyes hurt from trying to figure it all out.  Anyway, I could get rid of Leadership and take some other good stuff, but I was thinking...

How about a Coure Eladrin Bard cohort?  She could be the Coure Eladrin familiar's twin sister.  She wanted to be a cohort partly to be with her sister!  It's 2 HD, with a +5 LA, so if the cohort is 23rd level, she would be a 16th level bard, with 2 outsider hd.  Just the thought of two Coure Eladrins zipping about my head is making me dizzy.  Is this a possibility?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

I'll allow it, but (like the firre) it cannot cast spells or use bardic song while incorporeal.  23rd level cash is 290,000 for an NPC.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 4, 2004)

*Updated Character*

Updated - Cohort to be done and equipment completed.  

Jesper Ki’Ilik
Human Rogue 13/Shadowdancer 7/Void Incarnate 5
Alignment: Neutral
Ability	Score	Points Bonuses		                     Overall bonus
Str	18	4       +6 enhancement	                          + 4
Dex	30	10      +3 levels +6 enhancement +5 inherent	+ 10
Con	16	2        +6 enhancement	                          + 3
Int	28	8        +2 levels +6 enhancement +5 inherent	+ 9
Wis	16	2        +6 enhancement	                          + 3
Cha	26	6        +1 level +6 enhancement +5 inherent	+ 8

Hit Dice: 10d6 + 10d8 +5d6 + 75
Hit Points: 175
AC:  40 (+5 Chainmail, +5 Enhancement bonus, +10 Dex, +5 Natural Armor +5 Ring) Touch: 25
BAB: +17/+21 (Includes +3 Epic attack bonus)
Full Attack:Melee Rapier 1: +30 /+30/+25/+20 (+17 -2 for two weapons +5 Weapon bonus +10 dex) (extra attack from weapon speed) dmg 1d6 + 9 (+5 weapon, +4 str, +7d6 when sneak attack, +2d6 vs law).  Rapier 2 +30 /+30/+25 (+17 -2 for two weapons +5 Weapon bonus +10 dex) (extra attack from weapon speed) dmg 1d6 + 9 (+5 weapon, +4 str, +7d6 when sneak attack, +2d6 vs chaos).
Critical Range for both is 18-20/x2
Ranged: Composite Shortbow(+2 Str) +5 +32/27/+22 dmg 1d6 +7  (+5 from longbow, +2 str, +7d6 when sneak attack)
Saves: Fort +16 Ref +31 Wil +18 (Including epic save bonus +2)

Feats: 
Epic Leadership (Level 24)
Dextrous Fortitude (Level 21)
Landlord (level 18)
Leadership (Level 15)
Combat Reflexes (Thief special ability)
Improved Two weapon fighting (Level12)
Iron Will(Level 9)
Mobility (level 6)
Dodge (Level 3)
Two Weapon Fighting, (level 1)
Weapon Finesse (Human Bonus)

Skills: 
Appraise 32 (23 ranks +9 Int), Balance 28 (16 Ranks +10 Dex +2 Tumble), Bluff 32 (24 ranks +8 Cha), Climb 29 (31 with rope)(25 Ranks +4 Str +2 with rope), Craft (Locksmith) 24 (15 ranks +9 Int), Decipher Script 24 (15 Ranks + 9 Int), Diplomacy 37 (25 ranks +8 Cha +2 Bluff +2 Sense Motive), Disable Device 36 (27 Ranks + 9 Int), Disguise 30 (20 ranks +8 Cha +2 from Bluff), Escape Artist 34 (36 from rope) (24 Ranks +10 Dex +2 from rope), Forgery 18 (9 ranks + 9 Int), Gather Information 38 (28 ranks +8 Cha +2 Knowledge (Local)), Hide 38 (28 Ranks +10Dex), Intimidate 30 (20 Ranks + 8 Cha +2 bluff), Jump 12 (5 Ranks + 5 Str +2 Tumble), Knowledge (local) 24 (15 ranks + 9 Int), Listen 13 (10 Ranks + 3 Wis), Move Silently 31 (21 Ranks +10Dex), Open Lock 28 (20 ranks +8 Cha), Perform (Dance) 13 (5 ranks +8 Cha), Search 26 (17 ranks +9 Int), Sense Motive 21 (18 Ranks +3 Wis), Sleight of Hand 30 (20 ranks +8 Cha +2 bluff), Spot  13 (10 Ranks, +3 Wis), Swim 9 (5 Ranks +4 Str), Tumble 40 (28 Ranks +10Dex +2 Jump), Use Magic Device 23 (15 Ranks, +8 Cha), Use Rope 20 (22) (10 Ranks + 10 Dex +2 when binding). 

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: 
All simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Light armor, but not with shields. 

Special abilities
From Rogue
Trapfinding, Evasion, Sneak attack +7d6, trap sense +4, Improved uncanny dodge, Skill Mastery (Climb, Bluff, Escape artist, Hide, Move silently, Open lock, Search, Sleight of hand, Tumble, Use Magic Device, Sense Motive), 

From ShadowDancer
Hide in plain sight, darkvision, Shadow illusion, summon shadow, Shadow jump 40 ft.
Defensive roll, improved uncanny dodge, summon shadow (+2HD), Slippery mind

From Void Incarnate
Blank Aura. Improved Evasion, Void Presence, Mettle of Fortitude, Blank Mind

Equipment
Mantle of epic spell resistance SR40 290,000gp
Ring of attributes +6 enhancement bonus to all attributes 
Strong transmutation; CL 12th; Forge Ring, Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength, Eagle’s Splendor, Owl’s Wisdom, Cat’s Grace, Fox’s Cunning; Price 306,000gp.
Tome of Clear Thought +5 inherent bonus137,500gp (read and included above)
Manual of Quickness of Action +5 inherent bonus 137,500gp (read and included above)
Tome of Leadership and Influence  +5 inherent bonus137,500gp (read and included above)

Rapiers of balance:  These twin rapiers are a set, created to try and restore balance, removing law and chaos respectively.  The first is a beautiful blade, its line straight and true - made of cold iron it is an axiomatic weapon.  The second has wavy lines, a serated edge chaotically arranged, its silvery sheen giving away its composition of silver, it is the opposite of its mate, being an anarchic weapon.  Both of the weapons are also enchanted to increase the combat effectiveness of their wielder, providing extra speed.  When wielded together the weapon in the off hand counts as a light weapon, on their own each counts as an one handed weapon.
Blade 1 – Slayer of Chaos - +5 Rapier, Axiomatic, speed made of cold iron cost 203,040gp (+10 = 200,000 +2000 for cold iron +40 for rapier +1,000gp for light weapon)
Blade 2 – Slayer of Law - +5 Rapier, Anarchic, speed, made of Alchemical silver cost 201,410gp (+10 = 200,000 +320 for rapier + 90 for alchemical silver +1,000gp for light weapon)
Armor of Free movement:  This armor is a +5 suit of chainmail made of mithril, Grace abilities and maneuvering,  and , so finely patterned and interwoven that it can be freely worn under normal clothing undetected and counts as wearing light armor.  The wearer also receives the effects of a continuous Freedom of Movement Spell  It has no max dex bonus, no armor check penalty and a spell failure chance of 20% Cost 173,000gp (+7 bonus = 49,000 +4,000 for Mithral + 120,000 for Continuous Freedom of Movement)
Cubic Gate (Face 1 – Prime material Plane, Face 2 – Demi-plane of Hidden guild, Face 3 Positive Energy Plane, Face 4 – Astral Plane, Face 5 – Ethereal Plane, Face 6 – Nine Hells) 120,000gp
Note:  He uses his cubic gate for traveling to the Guild HQ mostly.  Face 3 is used when rapid healing is needed, Face 6 is generally used to take people there and abandon them – either as a punishment or as a combat tactic – although taking people to the positive plane and abandoning them there is preferred during combat!
Portable Hole 20,000gp (kept in an inside pocket sewn into his shirt)
Heward’s handy Haversack 2,000gp
5 Candles of truth 12,500gp
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 50,000gp
Ring of Protection +5 50,000
Composite Shortbow (+2 str bonus) of Distance +5 72,800gp
50 Arrows of seeking 2350gp
Bracer’s of displacement: (As cloak of greater displacement + 50% cost for non-affinity body slot) Cost 75,000gp
Bracelets of resistance (As cloak of resistance +50% cost for non-affinity slot) +5 37,500gp
Gold used 2,018,000gp



Description: Jesper is thin, emaciated looking man.  He disappears quietly into the shadows, seemingly not there.  He traditionally wears black clothing, covered with a dull black mantle that seems to drink in the light.  His face is usually hairless, but changes as he dons different guises, whatever seems best to him at the time.  His hair is kept cropped short, usually black in color but subject to change in but a moment.  He favors non-magical disguises, seeing magical ones as give-aways by their very nature.

Personality: Jesper tends to take life seriously.  Life is a game to be won, not enjoyed.  The rewards of the game come from being the best.  To this end he keeps much information about himself private.  Many know of his actions but few know of him and even fewer are close enough to know his thoughts.

History: Jesper has always lived on the wrong side of the law.  He grew up in the slums, winding his way through the streets, petty messenger for any who threw a copper his way.  And on his way he would stop to “supplement” this meager pay from whatever source he could find.  Never one for the organized groups, he stayed independent and eventually attracted the attention of those who objected to this independent station.  

So he left, taking with him what he owned, and never returned.  Instead he found a group that had sworn to bring back untold riches from distant shores and haunted ruins.  It seemed a good group, but they all fell.  True, he gained much experience and gold (not to mention equipment) from his fallen comrades, but it taught him a lesson.  A group is only as good as its cooperation.  He blamed their demise on their inability to work together – always arguing over petty differences.

So the next time he joined in with a group he looked for people that would work well together.  They did, right up until the time it turned out half were working for the vampire they were trying to destroy!  Barely escaping Jesper looked for better ways of working.  He found someone to learn from, the secrets of the shadows opening up to him.  For a few years he worked with his new mentor, learning what he could until he had surpassed him.

His fortune long since earned he looked at how he could capitalize on it.  He started building up an organization. He tried to organize a guild that could rival those that had made life difficult for him when younger.  But his distant manner worked against him and the guild was destroyed by betrayal and the he was subjected to several attempts on his life.  Depressed, his love of shadows deserted him and he sought other means of gaining the power he desired.

So Jesper searched and in meditation and in the power behind the shadows, in the space between where people looked, he found the void.  Here he found the power to mask himself, make himself seemingly not there – far more powerful than shadows, the void promised rewards he had previously only dreamt of.  Now he used his new understanding to move ahead, gain even further knowledge and still he explores the power of the void.

Using his new skillsand knowledge, Jesper now seeks to resurrect his dream of a guild to rival and eventually remove the existing ones.  He has agents in many cities, but this time his senior people are much closer to him, finally he has placed his trust into someone close to him – he hopes that this way the previous issue of betrayal will not be repeated! 

The Hidden Guild as it has become known, is slowly spreading its tentacles.  Jesper found a mage to create for him the ultimate hideaway, his own little corner of reality.  Using a magic item created for him he opened a gate and transported the people and equipment to his new headquarters.  Eleven other direct access tokens have been created, and given to his most loyal followers so they can move freely and bring information while relaying orders.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Goddess, a couple changes I'm making to the Weaponmaster PrC for 3.5; A) the Superior Weapon Focus become a bonus Greater Weapon Focus feat (and so can be used as prereq for Epic Weapon Focus), and the Ki Critical ability increases the crit multiplier by the same amount that Improved Critical does (so if you have both with the scythe, threat range is 18-20, not 17-20).



Okay, sounds great. I will most likely have the character done by Monday, probably before then. Question, though: I know that in 3.5 they made it so that _Keen_ and Improved Crit no longer stack, but I have had some DMs that ruled that since one is magic (_Keen Edge_) and the other is skill (Improved Crit) they have allowed the two to stack. I figure that it can't hurt to ask if you do the same. 

Also, do you allow the Wild Cohort feat from WOTC's website? I was thinking of going for a heavy warhorse. Link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a

The other thing I was considering was taking the Leadership feat, since I figure that Domina once was the Captain of a mercenary company and it makes since in her history. But I figure that using the Leadership cohort on an ordinary horse probably wouldn't be all that great of cohort useage.


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## silentspace (Jun 4, 2004)

No cohort here, after all.  It just feels wierd, as a coure is more cohort-like than familiar-like.  It's a walking, talking humanoid-like creature after all, not a cat.


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## silentspace (Jun 4, 2004)

Ghostknight, if we're using 3.5 Weapon Finesse, you only have to take it once, and it applies to every finessable weapon.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

Ghostknight, a few other notes: Multifunction items cost 50% more for all but the most expensive function, if all of the functions are used at once.  Thus, your ring costs 306K.

Also, for your history, remember you are not merely powerful, you are unsurpassed.  There would be no other Void Incarnates alive, likely none in all of history, as you are the first to be skilled enough to become one.

Goddess: No, keen and improved crit won't stack.  Wild Cohort is fine, as is Leadership.  If you were still considering cleric levels, I'd like to recommend the Holy Warrior class from the Book of the Righteous instead; it's got the same degree of divine devotion, and much more flexibility than the base paladin, but it would keep your martial prowess stronger.


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## Pyrex (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I believe that +15 is the highest bonus that can be granted by a non-epic skill booster; I'd have sworn that it was a circumstance bonus, but my SRD is now claiming that it's a competence bonus.  Does anyone own the actual 3.5 books, so I can compare?




I don't have a page ref for you, but the skill bonus is indeed a Competence bonus.

Also, the max non-epic boost is +30(!).


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## Pyrex (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> The epic progression is the same as the pre-epic progression; 2+Int skill points/level, d4 hit die, and +1 level of divine and arcane caster.




Here comes more un-asked-for advice from the peanut gallery... 

Pax, you really ought to take another look at the Epic MyTh progression.  It alternates between Arc/Div progression, it doesn't continue to grant both.  (which is why everyone doesn't like it)


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Goddess: No, keen and improved crit won't stack. Wild Cohort is fine, as is Leadership. If you were still considering cleric levels, I'd like to recommend the Holy Warrior class from the Book of the Righteous instead; it's got the same degree of divine devotion, and much more flexibility than the base paladin, but it would keep your martial prowess stronger.



Oh well, I figured they wouldn't, but no harm in asking.

I would love to take a look at the Holy Warrior... if I had the book.  I don't suppose someone has it in .pdf or already typed up who could email it to me? If not, not a big deal - I don't want to make anyone type it up.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 4, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> I would love to take a look at the Holy Warrior... if I had the book.  I don't suppose someone has it in .pdf or already typed up who could email it to me? If not, not a big deal - I don't want to make anyone type it up.




I doubt you find it.  The Holy Warrior is huge, probably 4 or so pages in a full size book. 

I can't recommend the book enough tough.  Everyone should own it. 

Oh I side note I'll start working on my ranger this weekend, I'm not expecting to play, or do anything nuts, but it would be best to have something approved and ready to go.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 4, 2004)

Who is the publisher of Book of the Righteous? I've never seen it in my local gaming store...


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 4, 2004)

Green Ronin.

Paxus, I will make the changes forthwith.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 4, 2004)

Pyrex, that may be the official version, but it strikes me as monumentally silly, especially given that at epic levels it's mostly granting a +1 caster level, not new spells.  By DM fiat, it grants +1 of each every level.  Thanks for the info on skill-boosters, and ye gods, that's frightening.  The damage that could be done by an epic incantatrix with Epic Spellcasting under the core rules is bad enough without adding in another +30 to the Spellcraft roll.

Goddess, I can send you the relevant information via email, or post it, this evening.  I'll only send the domains that are relevant to your deity of choice, so it won't be the full 4+ pages.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 4, 2004)

Ok, I have made the changes to Fairweather.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Goddess, I can send you the relevant information via email, or post it, this evening. I'll only send the domains that are relevant to your deity of choice, so it won't be the full 4+ pages.



Thanks! My email is taria@shadowlady.com if you want to email it. If not, posting it will be fine.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 4, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Ok, I have made the changes to Fairweather.



Sweet, noted and I approve.   (Though aren’t the young’uns kind of young?) 

PA, if you narrowed the domains down I can do it now...   I escaped early today.   What domains where you looking at?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 4, 2004)

They're young, but they've been raised by two very worldly-wise people.  I would assume they're very mature for their age.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 4, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> They're young, but they've been raised by two very worldly-wise people.  I would assume they're very mature for their age.



Very true, I'm just sort of surprised that the kids came so late in life but it does make a certain amount of IC sense, huh?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 4, 2004)

Yeah, I figure Fairweather wouldn't settle down until pretty late.  She's like that.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 4, 2004)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Yeah, I figure Fairweather wouldn't settle down until pretty late.  She's like that.



Then there will not another word against it from me.


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## silentspace (Jun 4, 2004)

After seeing Pyrex's post I went back to making a straight Diviner/Archmage, with a cleric cohort.


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## Pyrex (Jun 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Pyrex, that may be the official version, but it strikes me as monumentally silly, especially given that at epic levels it's mostly granting a +1 caster level, not new spells.  By DM fiat, it grants +1 of each every level.  Thanks for the info on skill-boosters, and ye gods, that's frightening.  The damage that could be done by an epic incantatrix with Epic Spellcasting under the core rules is bad enough without adding in another +30 to the Spellcraft roll.




No problem, just figured I'd let you know what the "official" progression was as it looked like you may have misread it. 

That's not the only place +30 to a skill is frightening, but it's certainly a good start.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 5, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Ghostknight, a few other notes: Multifunction items cost 50% more for all but the most expensive function, if all of the functions are used at once.  Thus, your ring costs 306K. [/QUOTE}
> 
> AARgh, forgotthat, will fix it at once!
> 
> ...


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 5, 2004)

That's acceptable; however, you might be better served by taking the Landlord feat, and getting a good bit of cash with which to build this.  It'd give you 2,000,000 gp (DM extrapolation; if there's an official extension of the table in Stronghold Builder's, I'll use that instead) which could be spent on any building expenses, including the cost of purchasing the Genesis spells.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 7, 2004)

Okay, here is the first draft of my character... sans equipment and history, obviously. Because of some character history-tweaking, I decided not to go Holy Warrior... I wanted to stay away from spellcasting and anything too obviously paladin- or cleric-ish. Divine Champion from Player's Guide to Faerun would probably be about right, but it requires that I use my patron diety's chosen weapon, and I doubt I am doing that.  I am uncertain what other languages I would have had a chance to learn, as they would most likely be other human languages.

*Domina ex'Zamia*
Female Human Fighter 15/Weapon Master 10
*Alignment:* Lawful Neutral
*Height:* 5'9"
*Weight:* 145 lbs
*Age:* 29
*Eyes:* Brown
*Hair:* Black
*Skin:* Tan
*Patron Diety:* God of Justice and Retribution
*HD:* 25d10
*HP:* 
*Init:* 5 [+1 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative]
*Stats:*
STR 20 (+5) [13 Pts +3 level]
DEX 13 (+1) [5 Pts]
CON 14 (+2) [5 Pts +1 level]
INT 14 (+2) [6 Pts]
WIS 10 (+0) [0 Pts +2 level]
CHA 12 (+1) [3 Pts +1 level]

[Total=32 points]

*Carrying Capacity:*
Light Load: lb or less
Med. Load: lbs
Heavy Load: lbs

*AC:*
[10 base +1 Dex + armor]

*Saves:*
Fort + [13 base + stat+ 0 misc]
Ref + [13 base + stat +0 misc]
Will + [9 base + stat +0 misc]

*Attacks:*
Base Attack +22/+17/+12/+7


*Damage:*


*Skills (stat): [Ranks+Stat+Misc]*
Bluff (Cha): [5+0+0] _cross-class_
Diplomacy (Cha): [8+0+2bluff+2sense motive] _cross-class_
Handle Animal (Cha): [10+0+0]
Intimidate (Cha): [11+0+2bluff]
Knowledge, Nature (Int): [0+0+2survival]
Listen (Wis): [15+0+0]
Ride (Dex): [12+0+2handle animal]
Sense Motive (Wis): [20+0+0]
Spot (Wis): [15+0+0]
Survival (Wis): [8+0+0] _cross-class_

*Feats:*
Dodge
Mobility
Wild Cohort
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Weapon Focus (scythe)
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Karmic Strike [Complete Warrior]
Improved Critical
Improved Initiative
Weapon Specialization (scythe)
Greater Weapon Specialization (scythe)
Quick Draw
Greater Weapon Focus (scythe) [bonus from PRC]
Dire Charge [Epic]
Epic Weapon Focus [Epic]

_Wish List: Epic Weapon Specialization_


*Racial Abilities (human):*
Free feat @ 1st level
4 extra skill points @ first level
1 extra skill point per level
Speed 30 ft
Favored class: Any

*Class Abilities:*
_Ki_ Damage 10/day
Increased Multiplier 5/day
Greater Weapon Focus (scythe)
Superior Combat Reflexes
_Ki_ Critical
_Ki_ Whirlwind Attack

*Languages Spoken:*
Common
~empty slot~
~empty slot~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Wild Cohort:* 
Arshae Laurus _(ancient victory)_
Advanced Dire Horse Stallion
*Coloring:* Bay (reddish-brown with black mane, tail, and legs)
*HD:* 15d8
*HP:*
*Initiative:* +3 Dex
*Speed:* 60 ft.
*AC:* 26 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +13 natural[+6 race +7 cohort])
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +11/+23
*Attack:* Hoof +20 melee
*Full Attack:* 2 Hooves +20, Bite +15
*Damage:* Hoof 1d8+8, Bite 1d6+4[/b]
*Face/Reach:* 10 ft/5 ft
*Special Qualities:* Scent [Racial], Low-light Vision [Racial], Evasion [Wild Cohort], Devotion [Wild Cohort]
*Saves:* Fort +15 (9 base +6 Con), Reflex +12 (9 base + 3 Dex), Will +7/+11 vs. Enchantment (5 base +2 Wis +4 vs Enchantment [Wild Cohort]) 
*Abilities:* STR 26 (+8), DEX 16 (+3), CON 22 (+6), INT 2 (-4), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 10 (+0) [stats from MotW + Advanced HD + Wild Cohort]
*Skills:* Listen +11, Spot +11 [18 skill points from HD]
*Feats:* Endurance, Run, Weapon Focus (hooves), Weapon Focus (bite), Improved Natural Attack (hooves), Improved Natural Attack (bite) [6 feats from HD]
*Advancement:* 16 (Large); 17-24HD (Huge)
*Tricks Known: *Combat Riding package [PHB]; Bullrush [Web]; Overrun [Web]; Pin [Web]; Track [PHB] ("Web" tricks are from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Domina's Items:*
Rod of Force   125,000  A&E 126
Boots of Swiftness  256,000  ELH SRD
Ring of Protection +5  50,000  DMG 232
Rod of Enemy Detection  23,500  DMG 246
Amulet of Health +6  36,000  DMG 248
Belt of Giant Strength +6  36,000  DMG 250
Belt, Monk's (merged with STR belt) 19,500 DMG 250
Helm of Telepathy  27,000  DMG 259
Cloak of Charisma +6  36,000  DMG 253
Ring of Resistance +5  25,000  DMG 253
Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 137,500  DMG 562
Manual of Bodily Health +5 137,500  DMG 562
Vial of Silversheen x2   250  DMG 266
Rod of Heal 3/day, 10th lvl 144,000  Custom

Armor Total Cost~~~ 415,350
MW Fullplate   1,650  DMG 216
+5 Enhancement to AC (+5)   DMG 216
Command (+2)     A&E 93
Maneuvering (+1)    BoEM2
Grace (+1)     BoEM2
Glamered   2,700  DMG 219
Greater Cold, Acid, Fire, Electricity, & Sonic Resistance    330,000  DMG 219

Shield Total Cost~~~ 100,170
MW heavy steel shield  170
+5 Enhancement to AC (+5)   DMG 218
Animated (+2)     DMG 218
Moderate Fortification (+3)   DMG 219

*Arshae's Items:*
Saddle of Weather Protection 5,400  A&E 136
Battle Bridle   9,000  MoF 154
Horseshoes of the Peerless Steed 217,000 ELH SRD
Horseshoes of the Zephyr (merged with P.S. shoes) 9,000  DMG 260

Barding Total Cost~~~ 417,150
Fullplate (x4 cost)  6,000
MW    150
+5 Enhancement to AC (+5)   DMG 216
Grace (+1)     BoEM2
Fortification, Moderate (+3)   DMG 219
Greater Cold, Acid, Fire, Electricity, & Sonic Resistance    330,000  DMG 219

*Descriptions/Notes:*
Boots of Swiftness: These shoes grant their wearer a +6 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. The wearer’s speed doubles 
(this does not stack with any magical or supernatural enhancement to speed), he or she gains the evasion ability (as the 
rogue class feature), and the wearer’s jumping distance is not limited by his or her height. The wearer gains a +20 
competence bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks. Three times per day, the wearer can utter a command word to 
activate the boots’ haste power (as the haste spell, lasts 20 rounds). 
Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Wondrous Item, cat’s grace, expeditious retreat, haste, 
jump; Market Price: 256,000 gp; Weight: 1 lb. 

Horseshoes of the Peerless Steed: These horseshoes magically adhere to the feet of any hoofed creature. Anyone riding 
the creature gains a +10 competence bonus on Ride checks and is treated as having ranks in the appropriate Ride skill (and 
thus does not take the –5 penalty for riding an unfamiliar mount). The horseshoes grant the creature (or its rider, as 
appropriate) the effects of the Trample, Ride-By Attack, and Spirited Charge feats. The wearer of the horseshoes gains spell 
resistance 32 against enchantment effects. In addition, the ground speed of the creature wearing the horseshoes doubles. 
Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Wondrous Item, Ride skill, haste, spell resistance; Market Price: 217,000 gp; Weight: 1 lb. each. 
_These have had the Horseshoes of the Zephyr from the DMG merged with them._

Rod of Heal: Useable 3 times per day, Use activated, heal 110 HP of damage per use.
Caster Level: 10th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Heal; Market Price:
(spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp) / (5 / charges per day) x no space limit
(6x10x2,000)/(5/3)x2= 144,000

Key: A&E = Arms & Equipment Guide; ELH SRD = Epic Level Handbook SRD
All items are named followed by price, source, and page number (if any).


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## Ghostknight (Jun 7, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> That's acceptable; however, you might be better served by taking the Landlord feat, and getting a good bit of cash with which to build this.  It'd give you 2,000,000 gp (DM extrapolation; if there's an official extension of the table in Stronghold Builder's, I'll use that instead) which could be spent on any building expenses, including the cost of purchasing the Genesis spells.




Yikes, hadn't heard of that feat, but it makes a lot of sense for my character (Don't have the Stronghold Builder's guide).  So it is added to the character sheet.  Question on this - would the gate tokens count as part of building expenses?  

(Modified character posted above)

Also, I have created the following magic items fro my PC, BUT they utilise elements not directly addressed in the rules - are these acceptable or not

Rapiers of balance:  These twin rapiers are a set, created to try and restore balance, removing law and chaos respectively.  The first is a beautiful blade, its line straight and true - made of cold iron it is an axiomatic weapon.  The second has wavy lines, a serated edge chaotically arranged, its silvery sheen giving away its composition of silver, it is the opposite of its mate, being an anarchic weapon.  Both of the weapons are also enchanted to increase the combat effectiveness of their wielder, providing extra speed.  When wielded together the weapon in the off hand counts as a light weapon, on their own each counts as an one handed weapon (See note below)
Blade 1 – Slayer of Chaos - +5 Rapier, Axiomatic, speed made of cold iron cost 222040gp (+10 = 200,000 +2000 for cold iron +40 for rapier +20,000gp for light weapon)
Blade 2 – Slayer of Law - +5 Rapier, Anarchic, speed, made of Alchemical silver cost 220410gp (+10 = 200,000 +320 for rapier + 90 for alchemical silver +20,000gp for light weapon)
(Note: No specific guidelines given for reducing weapon category so I used an arbitary figure of +20,000gp per weapon for the combination category reduction, but need a final ruling on this.  As an ability it made sense since the pair are created to be wielded together.)

Armor of Free movement:  This armor is a +5 suit of chainmail made of mithril, so finely patterned and interwoven that it can be freely worn under normal clothing undetected and counts as wearing light armor,  It has a max dex bonus + 12, no armor check penalty and no arcane spell casting penalty. Cost 204000gp
(Note, no specific bonuses are given for decreasing armor check bonuses/arcane spellcasting penalties or for improving max dex bonus so I just counted the extra +5 of bonus for the changes to these three)


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## silentspace (Jun 7, 2004)

Anya is a human mystic theurge, with a coure familiar and a cleric cohort. 

*Appearance:*
Anya has dark brown hair, pale, slightly olive-toned skin, and deep, dark brown eyes, and pretty. She is slender and well-proportioned.  If you didn't know better, you would probably think Anya was a pampered young wife, or perhaps mistress, of a wealthy merchant or noble. She appears to be in her very early twenties, though in reality she is a bit older.

*Personality:*
Passionate and fiery, Anya has no fear of death. She doesn't _want_ to die, but if the Goddess of Chance determines that her time is up, then so be it. Far from fatalistic, she likes life, and seizes every chance to live it to the fullest. 

*Background:*
Anya's origins are unknown, even to her. She has an exotic look about her, and people have often wondered where she comes from. Anya grew up in a city orphanage, with no money and no prospects.  

Anya has always lived by her wits, and lived well. 

Anya places her faith firmly in the Goddess of Chance, who she believes has saved her on more than one occasion. Anya learned while young that the old adage 'only the strong survive' is not as true as her personal motto 'only the lucky survive'. So she has put her faith in the Goddess of Chance, and serves her devotedly. 

Answering a call for help, Anya traveled to a small coastal village that was beset by bugbear raids. Anya joined the village warriors in an expedition to stop the bugbears. The village tracker followed the bugbears to their lair, and the intrepid adventurers went in. Deep underground, they were ambushed. They fought hard, but took many casualties. As the warriors fell one by one, Anya knew there was little hope of survival, and she would rather die than allow herself to be captured. Heavily wounded, she watched the last warrior fall. In a last desperate act, she fireballed the cavern, engulfing herself in the flames as well. With their injuries, she would not survive the fiery inferno, and her casting would be her last action on this plane of existence. But, miraculously, she survived! All the bugbears lay dead around her.

Sumi, in gratitude for saving her life, decided to follow Anya, as her advisor, confidante, bodyguard, and close friend.  As clerics of the same Goddess, Anya and Sumi meshed well together.  Soon they were inseperable.  The Goddess was so impressed with Anya's devotion that she sent a Kira, a Coure, to her to serve as Anya's loyal follower, confidante, friend, and familiar.

The trio travelled to fight the opponents of freedom and good. A few times, when against particularly difficult challenges, they felt they only prevailed by the Luck of the Goddess. Anya's fame and renown began to grow in the world, as well as her power.

Anya and Sumi have been known to seduce men, and whisk them away to another plane of existence she calls Alabel (Rod of Security), a tropical pocket paradise where they play and enjoy themselves for weeks or even months, happy and carefree.

But they also work hard. The Goddess appeared to Anya once in a dream, saying "Anya, I help those who help themselves," and Anya has taken those words to heart. She retreats often to Alabel to practice her skills, experiment with spell combinations, train in combat drills, craft items, and perform acts of devotion to the Goddess.

As their power has grown, Anya, Sumi and Kira find there are few challenges that require their aid.  As a result, they find themselves with long stretches of time with not much to do.  This is not a problem at all for the pair, as they will spend their time in Alabel for a few weeks or months of carefree fun.  But they never let their training lapse, and are always ready.  As the years have passed, the trio have aged little.  When not in Alabel, they will tour the large cities, catching up on the news and seeing if there are any threats that require their attention.  When a threat presents itself, or the Goddess of Chance requires their action, Anya and Sumi, accompanied by Kira, are ready.  

--

The three are very defensive in style, but as high level casters have some good offensive power as well.  Anya is a human cleric 3/diviner 3/mystic theurge 15/archmage 4.  Her high arcana are mastery of counterspelling, spell power, mastery of shaping and mastery of elements.  Her epic feats are automatic quicken spell (twice), which allows her to quicken a touch spell (usu. healing or defensive), then while Kira delivers the touch spell, cast another spell or prepare to counterspell.  As a diviner 22/cleric 18, she's got a lot of spells!  Sumi is a cleric 23, with improved spell capacity (twice), allowing her to cast extra spontaneous Mass Heals.


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## Someone (Jun 7, 2004)

I´m only a lurker, but sorry silentspace, autoquicken requires 30 ranks in spellcraft. No way a 25 level character can have that.

(BTW Paxus, can I make a character, just in case?)


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## silentspace (Jun 7, 2004)

Someone said:
			
		

> I´m only a lurker, but sorry silentspace, autoquicken requires 30 ranks in spellcraft. No way a 25 level character can have that.
> 
> (BTW Paxus, can I make a character, just in case?)




Ah.  Improved Spell Capacity then.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 7, 2004)

Ghostknight, the ability on the rapiers will only cost you 1,000 gp apiece.  For the armor, the abilities you want can come from the Book of Eldritch Might 2: Grace, a +1 enhancement, removes the maximum Dexterity bonus, Maneuvering, a +1 ability, reduces the armor check penalty by 2 (to 0, in the case of a chain shirt), and Greater Spellcasting, a +4 enhancement, eliminates the arcane spell failure chance.

Someone, if you want, you can make a character; you'll be on the alternates list.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 7, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> For the armor, the abilities you want can come from the Book of Eldritch Might 2: Grace, a +1 enhancement, removes the maximum Dexterity bonus



Removed the max Dex completely? As in, if I have fullplate of Grace, I could have a 30 Dex and get the full AC bonus from it? That seems a bit powerful, but if true, I want it for my character.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 8, 2004)

Yep.  That's how it works.  No Max Dex Bonus at all.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 8, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Yep. That's how it works. No Max Dex Bonus at all.



Sweet.........................


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## Ghostknight (Jun 8, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Ghostknight, the ability on the rapiers will only cost you 1,000 gp apiece.  For the armor, the abilities you want can come from the Book of Eldritch Might 2: Grace, a +1 enhancement, removes the maximum Dexterity bonus, Maneuvering, a +1 ability, reduces the armor check penalty by 2 (to 0, in the case of a chain shirt), and Greater Spellcasting, a +4 enhancement, eliminates the arcane spell failure chance.




Great!  I will change the sheet to reflect this - I don't think I will worry about the greater spellcasting though - after all I am not a spell caster!  Oh to have all the books available here  :\ 

Heh, so the chainmail suit of armor with the Maneuvering special ability and made out of Mithral has no armor check penalty   Just waht I was aiming for (5 -3 for Mithral -2 for maneuvering = 0!)


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## silentspace (Jun 8, 2004)

Ghostknight, I've been going through the DMG trying to figure out how to do items for Anya and Co.  I don't know the details of what you're trying to do, but I realized that Monk's Belt is the way to go for my mystic theurge and cleric.  It will probably be pretty good for a rogue type too.  +10 enchantment to chain mail will give you +10 to armor and cost 100k.  Bracers of armor +8 cost 64k, and a monk's belt costs 13k (19.5k if you're adding it to an already enchanted belt).  The thing for my clerics is that a monk's belt prevents use of shields too, but your rogue (and maybe Goddess' scythe wielder) probably won't use shields anyway.  A few k is nothing when you're 25th level, but just thought I'd point this option out  

Edit: Forgot rogues can use animated mithril shields too


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## silentspace (Jun 8, 2004)

Oh, I remembered why I went for the monk's belt option, to boost the touch ac.  This might not be applicable to your characters.  Plus, as front line folk, you'll probably put a lot more cash into ac then my clerics.  I don't think I'm going higher than bracers of armor +6, but everything's still in flux.

I hope to post a first draft soon for feedback.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 8, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Oh, I remembered why I went for the monk's belt option, to boost the touch ac.  This might not be applicable to your characters.  Plus, as front line folk, you'll probably put a lot more cash into ac then my clerics.  I don't think I'm going higher than bracers of armor +6, but everything's still in flux.
> 
> I hope to post a first draft soon for feedback.




Well, I am still busy with my magic items, I have a few hundred thousand still to spend so I will be adding in further AC boosting items.  The idea behind the armor was to get armor that he could freely use as a rogue, with no penalties to skills or losing any of his dex bonus.  Also, I wanted it unobtrusive so he could wear it unnoticed.

Also, don't forget the issue with the enhancement bonuses when designing items.  The DMG tables +6 to +10 is for additional abilities added to the items, an actual armor bonus of +6 or more is on the epic side and is enhancment squared * 10,000gp - a +10 enhancement bonus costs 1,000,000gp!  So my other AC boosting item is likely to be an amulet of natural Armor +5 and probably bracer's enchanted with some spell that provides an AC boost against touch attacks.

The monk's belt while nice - is not that high an AC boost (only as a fifth level monk) although the unarmed attacks as a monk are nice.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 8, 2004)

Okay, here's a question - if I have a shield +3 with an ability that is an +1 bonus and another that is an +6 bonus, (equalling +10) would that make it an epic item?

I don't believe it is, just want to make sure I do not miss something in the rules.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 8, 2004)

3 + 1 + 6 = +10  And that's not epic.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 8, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> Okay, here's a question - if I have a shield +3 with an ability that is an +1 bonus and another that is an +6 bonus, (equalling +10) would that make it an epic item?
> 
> I don't believe it is, just want to make sure I do not miss something in the rules.




I'm afraid it is.



			
				From the revised 3.5 SRD said:
			
		

> To find the base price of an epic suit of magic armor or an epic magic shield, roll on Table: Armor and Shields. Note that the +6 to +10 rows apply only to armor and shields that provide an enhancement bonus of +6 to +10 or armor and shields with a single special ability whose market price modifier is +6 to +10.




Since the ability you are adding is +6, it is epic.


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## silentspace (Jun 8, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Ghostknight, the ability on the rapiers will only cost you 1,000 gp apiece.  For the armor, the abilities you want can come from the Book of Eldritch Might 2: Grace, a +1 enhancement, removes the maximum Dexterity bonus, Maneuvering, a +1 ability, reduces the armor check penalty by 2 (to 0, in the case of a chain shirt), and Greater Spellcasting, a +4 enhancement, eliminates the arcane spell failure chance.
> 
> Someone, if you want, you can make a character; you'll be on the alternates list.




So a +5 suit of mithril chainmail would be a +7 enhancement, if you only add grace and maneuvering.  +10 ac for 49k + mithril + base cost.  Nice!


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## silentspace (Jun 8, 2004)

And a heavy animated mithril shield would cost about the same, for a +7 shield bonus.  You're going to be unhittable!  Heck, you won't even need my heals


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## Ghostknight (Jun 8, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> So a +5 suit of mithril chainmail would be a +7 enhancement, if you only add grace and maneuvering.  +10 ac for 49k + mithril + base cost.  Nice!




Nope, just 49k + mithral - trhe base cost for the armor is included in the mithral so for 53k you get AC10, no armor check, no max dex bonus and it is light armor so evasion etc still work!


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## Ghostknight (Jun 8, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> And a heavy animated mithril shield would cost about the same, for a +7 shield bonus.  You're going to be unhittable!  Heck, you won't even need my heals




Hmm, I just don't see him dragging a heavy shield around, no matter ho positive it will be in gaming terms.  With his attacks (seven between the two rapiers) and the fact that people lose their dex bonus (unless immune to mind affecting effects) so he always get sneak attack damage, he is going to be very effective (I mean he already has a 40AC, 25AC vs Touch!).  If he does get hit his HP aren't that high compared to where fighter types are likely to be though.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 8, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> I'm afraid it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Since the ability you are adding is +6, it is epic.



I thought only if the magical enhancement to AC was +6 or greater. I didn't think that special abilities fell under that category as well.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 8, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> I thought only if the magical enhancement to AC was +6 or greater. I didn't think that special abilities fell under that category as well.




Well, the SRD is clear on it being applied to special abilities where the market modifier is +6 or above.  A pity, yep, but it does mae sense in a way- any ability that powerful is pretty much not going to be found in normal items- the DMG stops at +5 for any special abilities- the rest are from the ELH (or revised SRD nowadays)


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 8, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> Well, the SRD is clear on it being applied to special abilities where the market modifier is +6 or above. A pity, yep, but it does make sense in a way- any ability that powerful is pretty much not going to be found in normal items- the DMG stops at +5 for any special abilities- the rest are from the ELH (or revised SRD nowadays)



A pity indeed.  Oh well, I guess I can just make it a +5 Animated shield of... something else. Maybe stack that Manuvering bonus on it to lower the armor check penalty.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 8, 2004)

I'm afraid that the Epic Magic Items section states that 

"An item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item . . . • Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5."

Thus, all of the weapon special qualities listed in the ELH make a weapon epic if applied.  As a friendly suggestion, there is a way to bypass DR X/epic without blowing 720K on a +6 weapon: bane enchantments.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 8, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I'm afraid that the Epic Magic Items section states that
> 
> "An item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item . . . • Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5."
> 
> Thus, all of the weapon special qualities listed in the ELH make a weapon epic if applied.  As a friendly suggestion, there is a way to bypass DR X/epic without blowing 720K on a +6 weapon: bane enchantments.




Only problem with that is you need a pretty good idea of what fow you are going to be facing, it is only going to be above +7 (+5 +2 for bane) against the specified enemy.  Or is their a different bane I have missed (hopefully!)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 8, 2004)

I'm using 3.5 DR, so you just need a total +6 enhancement.  That means that you can, should you choose to spend the cash, have a weapon capable of penetrating epic DR on six different categories of enemy for a scant 200K.  Or, if you're particularly worried about overcoming DR, you can get a +1 weapon with nine Banes, and use Greater Magical Weapon on it.  True, you need to know what you're facing, but not narrowed down to a single category.


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## Someone (Jun 8, 2004)

Here´s my alternate:

Name: Segmund Goldkopft
Race: Human
Class: Barbarian 13 / Sorcerer 2/(Black) Dragon disciple 10 (order: 1 barbarian, 2 Sorcerer, 3-4 barbarian, 5 sorcerer, 6-15 dragon disciple, 16-25 barbarian. I could have squeezed one or two more points of BAB taking all Dragon disciple levels later, but that would have been cheesy)
Level: 25
Alingment: CG
Patron deity: 

Stats:
.............Total.....Pbuy(cost)..Level..Enhan....Inherent..Ddisciple boost
Str........40(+15)...16(10)........+6.....+6..........+4..........+8
Dex.......24(+7).....14(6)..................+6..........+4		
Con.......26(+8).....14(6)..................+6..........+4...........+2
Int........16(+3).....12(4)...............................+2...........+2
Wis.......20(+5).....10(2)..................+6..........+4
Cha.......16(+3).....12(4)...............................+2...........+2

Saves: 
Fort: +28 	Base +13, Con +8, resistance +5, epic 2
Ref:  +19	Base +5, Dex +7, resistance +5, epic 2
Will: +26	Base +12, Wis +5, resistance +5, epic 2, Iron Will +2

Feats: 8 regular, 2 epic feats

Power attack
Cleave
Great cleave
Improved initiative
Iron Will
Weapon focus greatsword
Improved critical greatsword
Endurance (just for flavor. If there´s any feat in the Complete warrior that could fit, I´d like to hear suggestions)

Damage reduction
Dire Charge

Skills: Total ranks (supposing that the +2 inherent was taken at this level) Not counting armor check penalty.
Barbarian: 94 ranks, Sorcerer 8 ranks, dragon disciple 42 ranks.
Survival 15+5=20
Listen 25+5=30
Jump 17+15=32
Ride 17+7=24
Swim 15+15=30
Intimidate 19+3=22
Knowledge (arcana) 16+3=19
Spot 10+5=15
Search 8+3=11

Combat stuff:
Movement: 30 ft in armor
AC: 44 = 10 +13 armor, +9 natural armor, +5 deflection, +7 Dex
Hit points: 23d12+2d4+200 = 360

Resistances and immunities (counting equipment): Damage reduction 6/-, fire resistance 30, acid immunity, immune to mind affecting and divination spells, SR 40, immunity to paralysis and sleep.

Attacks: 
Base attack bonus: +16/+11/+6/+1, +3 epic; grapple +34

S´hasla: +5 bane of dragons and evil outsiders adamantine greatsword of speed: +40/+40/+35/+30/+25, damage 2d6+27, crit 17-20/x2
+4 holy cold iron heavy mace: +38/+33/+28/+23, damage 1d8+19
Plus bite +29, 1d6+15

Natural attacks: 2 claws +34, 1d4+15 and bite +29, 1d6+15

+5 mighty (+10) composite longbow: +31/+26/+21/+16 damage 1d8+15

Barbarian abilities: Fast movement, greater rage 4/day, trap sense +4, improved uncanny dodge, damage reduction 3/-

Dragon disciple abilities: Natural armor +4, ability boost (+8 str, +2 Con +2 Int +2 Cha), claw and bite attacks, breath weapon (line of acid 60 feet long, damage 6d8, Reflex half DC ), blindsense 30 feet, low-light vision, darkvision 60 feet, immunity to acid, immunity to sleep and paralysis, wings (fly speed 40 feet, average maneuverability) 7 extra 1st level spells.

Sorcerer spells Caster level 2, D 14+spell level: 0-mage hand, detect magic, detect poison, prestidigitation, read magic. 1- True strike, endure elements.
Level 0- 6/day
Level 1-12/day

Equipment: 
S´hasla: +5 dragon and evil outsider bane adamantine greatsword of speed: 203k
+4 cold iron holy heavy mace: 74 k
+5 mighty (+10) composite bow: 51 k
+1 dagger 2k
Quiver with 20 arrows.

Armor of body perfection: +5 mithral full plate of grace and medium fortification. 92k Comes with Gauntlets of strenght +6 36k, Belt of Health +6 36k and an Amulet of Natural Armor +5 50k
Pearl of wisdom +6 (slotless) 54k
Ring of Protection +5  50k
Mantle of Epic SR and resistance +5 327,5 k
Helm of the mind bastion (continuous Mind Blank and See invisibility):  255 k
Boots of the air walker: +6 enhancement bonus to Dex, and act as winged boots: 60 k
Ring of fire resistance, greater 44k
Bag of holding, type IV 10 k. Inside: Quiver with 20 adamantine arrows 1,2; quiver with 20 silver arrows 40 gp, quiver with 20 cold iron arrows, staff of the traveller 94k, wand of polymorph 21k)
Inherent bonuses: 550k

78000 gp.

Custom items:

Staff of the planar traveler: This staff is hard to tell from a simple walking stick. Contains the following spells (at caster level 13) Greater teleport (2 charges), Plane shift (2 charges), Dimension door, Resist Energy. 

Armor of body perfection: The plates of this shining mithral suit of full armor are carved to resemble the wearer´s musculature, and adjust to a new owner after a couple of days, allowing him to move and dodge almost as if he were naked. The armor comes with gauntlets that greatly enhance the wearer´s strenght, a belt that improves his constitution and an amulet inlaid in the breastplate that hardens his flesh.

-The helm of the mind bastion has a caster level of 15
-The mantle of epic spell resistance has added the +5 to all ST at a +50%cost
-Same for the boots, have added the cost of winged boots +50%

I don´t have completed the background, but involves a northern tribe of barbarians ruled by a black dragon.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 8, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I'm using 3.5 DR, so you just need a total +6 enhancement. That means that you can, should you choose to spend the cash, have a weapon capable of penetrating epic DR on six different categories of enemy for a scant 200K.



I will probably end up doing this, just with everything else I want on my scythe, it's gonna be expensive.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 9, 2004)

Yikes, after seeing the to hits on the fighter types, suddenly my 40AC seems puny and there is no way short of epic items to push it up (Hell, I have armor, enhancement, natural armor and deflection bonuses - there ain't no more for AC!).

Sheesh, To hits get high at this level - I'm gonna have to buy something to give a chance of missing!


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 9, 2004)

Displacement is always nice... try a cloak of Displacement.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 9, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> Displacement is always nice... try a cloak of Displacement.




Yep displacement is the route I am going, but with bracers of displacement as I alraedy have the mantle of Spell Resistance so it will cost 75k gold (out of affinity slot).  Similarly I an going for bracelets of resistance (37.5k) to boost saves a bit.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 9, 2004)

There are also insight, luck, and sacred bonuses to AC, if you need them, but they cost more (2500 x bonus squared).


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## Ghostknight (Jun 9, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> There are also insight, luck, and sacred bonuses to AC, if you need them, but they cost more (2500 x bonus squared).





Ahh, forgot about those.  But i think I will stick with the displacement for now.  It gives better overall defense (50% flatout miss chance), and even with another +5 to AC the fighter types with +40/+44 to hit are going to hit an AC of 45 most of the time!


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## silentspace (Jun 9, 2004)

I'll be leaving for a retreat tonight and will be unable to get online.  I'll be back Saturday.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 10, 2004)

hey guys, as a heads-up I will be leaving Friday the 11th for an weekend up North. I will be back on Monday the 14th. I'll be around until then, though.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 20, 2004)

Hey, Paxus, were you still going to have time for this, possibly?  I don't know what your schedule is like, but let us know?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 21, 2004)

I should have time; does everyone have a finished character?  If so, all I need is a basic character motivation (what would bring you to a specific adventure, rather than what makes you adventure in the broad sense), and I should be able to build proper hooks.


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## Ghostknight (Jun 21, 2004)

My character is essentially finished.  The missing bits are the details on the guild demiplane and his cohort.  (dithering whether it should be a fighter 23 or barbarian 23).  Unfortunately I don't think I will get to update these details much before the end of the week, although I promise to try!


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 21, 2004)

My character is pretty much finished... I just have to actually update her with the equipment list (changing stats, attk, dam, etc) and repost. Do we have a RG, or do you just want characters here?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 21, 2004)

I get you a Gallery, I get you a Gallery; I just need a little more _time_ , ya hear?  It should be up within the hour.

Link


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## silentspace (Jun 21, 2004)

Posted Anya and Co.

Starting next week I'll be travelling for two weeks and will probably not have much time/opportunity to post.  Sorry!


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 21, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I get you a Gallery, I get you a Gallery; I just need a little more _time_ , ya hear? It should be up within the hour.
> 
> Link



*cringe* Please, master, don't smite me!

 

(My char should be up by tomorrow... I'm at work right now.)


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 21, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> (My char should be up by tomorrow... I'm at work right now.)



Slacker...


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 21, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Slacker...



Takes one to know one.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jun 21, 2004)

Goddess FallenAngel said:
			
		

> Takes one to know one.



Hey that's my line!


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 23, 2004)

Okay, my character is updated and completed, but I have 150,000+ gold left over.  Any suggestions, guys?


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## Ghostknight (Jun 23, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Posted Anya and Co.
> 
> Starting next week I'll be travelling for two weeks and will probably not have much time/opportunity to post.  Sorry!




As per your request for comment/critique

Everything looks good but when creating magic items you failed to take into account body slot affinities and I believe that the following need to be corrected (Note this is all my interpretation- feel free to disagree)

Vest - affinity is for class ability improvements so cost should be multiplied by 1.5
Headband - affinity is for Mental improvement and ranged attacks- unsuure if wisdom, charisma add ons fall into this categpry (both the standard items for this would seem to indicate not (Periapt for Wisdom, Cloak for Charisma).
Belt - Physical enhancement - Does natural armor fall into this category? (Isn't it rather a protection function?)

So aside from the above nit-picks it looks good to me.


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## silentspace (Jun 23, 2004)

Ghostknight said:
			
		

> As per your request for comment/critique
> 
> Everything looks good but when creating magic items you failed to take into account body slot affinities and I believe that the following need to be corrected (Note this is all my interpretation- feel free to disagree)




I did actually consider body slot affinities, but yes, its definitely up to interpretation.



			
				Ghostknight said:
			
		

> Vest - affinity is for class ability improvements so cost should be multiplied by 1.5




I figured luck enhancements, if anything, would be general enough to be considered a class ability improvment.  If not, what slot would be appropriate?  Also, are there any enhancements other than the Vest of Escape and Druid's Vestments that can be put in this slot?  And where would the luck enhancements go?



			
				Ghostknight said:
			
		

> Headband - affinity is for Mental improvement and ranged attacks- unsuure if wisdom, charisma add ons fall into this categpry (both the standard items for this would seem to indicate not (Periapt for Wisdom, Cloak for Charisma).




Somewhere in the rules, I can't remember where exactly, they refer to strength, dexterity and constitution as being physical stats, and intelligence, wisdom and charisma being mental stats.  I don't think "mental" means Intelligence only, and could in fact include the other enchantments, such as enhancements to wisdom, charisma.  The other add ons, the helm of telepathy and circlet of persuasion, or course, are straight out of the DMG, so I would assume they are ok... or am I missing something?



			
				Ghostknight said:
			
		

> Belt - Physical enhancement - Does natural armor fall into this category? (Isn't it rather a protection function?)




Yes, I thought natural armor could be considered a physical enhancement.

But I leave the final decision up to Paxus.

In any case, almost every enchantment is already multiplied by 1.5 (because of multiple enchantments on the same item), and there's some money left over too, so switching slots around will not have much impact. Except for the time to do them, that is!  Let me know what the ruling is.

Side note... I have no epic items at all.  I hope that doesn't make my characters too ineffective.  What do you guys think?  Should I switch stuff around, dropping all the pre-epic enchantments, for some epic enchantments?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 23, 2004)

The headband and belt seem fine; I'm not sure that anything that isn't definitively rogueish can count as a class enhancement for you.


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## silentspace (Jun 23, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> The headband and belt seem fine; I'm not sure that anything that isn't definitively rogueish can count as a class enhancement for you.




OK, I'll switch the vest enchantments to somewhere else.

About the vest, would Pearls of Power count as class enhancements (a wizard's only class abilities are spellcasting and the ability to summon a familiar)?  Pearls of power are unslotted, at a cost of (spell level squared x 1,000).  So would a Vest of Power cost (spell level squared x 500) for the first 'pearl', and (spell level squared x 500 x 1.5) for each additional 'pearl'?  That seems to follow the rules, unless Pearls of Power aren't class enhancements after all...?

Going by the Vest of Escape example, I think skill bonus items can also count as 'class enhancements', so I could make a vest of Spellcraft, for example, but without Epic Spellcasting I don't see much use for that.  Maybe a Vest of Concentration so she can take a bigger hit and still get a spell off?  Could it be a bonus to any class skill?

Or if none of this is allowed, then we can just forget the vest slot too.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 23, 2004)

I'd allow the Vest of Power, and likewise of Concentration; some class skills have a better slot, such as headband for a knowledge skill.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 23, 2004)

I'm a little curious as to what enchantments are on Anya's items to get her the monk bonuses to AC (both monk and Wisdome).  Did I miss something?  For I am genuinely confused as to where they came from.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 24, 2004)

From the Monk's Belt, perhaps?.... *doesn't Anya have one?...*


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 24, 2004)

I didn't see it, but then again Anya's special belt and boots and whatnot don't have all their qualities listed, so I cannot say.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 24, 2004)

They do a little further down the character sheet.


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## silentspace (Jun 24, 2004)

Updated Anya, and corrected some errors while I was at it.

The character sheet is really long, because I wanted to show all the notes and calculations in case anyone wanted to check.  I had the item descriptions and cost calculations with the inventory at first, but found it difficult to read so I made it into a separate section.  Sorry for any confusion.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 24, 2004)

I have read them, and now I get it.  I am now educated.  Excellent.  Carry on.  When do we get to save the world?


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 24, 2004)

Okay, Domina is finished and completed version posted. (Took me a while because the original file on my hard drive had gotten corrupted and I had to retype everything. *sigh*)

I am ready to go as well.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 24, 2004)

I just need to get you plot hooks.  As best I can tell, Anya will do what her goddess tells her, and Jesper will act to stop anything that threatens his Guild, but the other two are a little harder.  Domina might be lured into action by some terrible crime that needs righting, but I don't see Fairweather's motivation to adventure.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 24, 2004)

*forgot about the plot hooks*

Domina would assist in any adventure that involved a strong arm to help right an injustice or assist someone to seek retribution. Other than that, she is still a mercenary at heart and reacts as such... and, she will follow the commands of any priest of her deity.


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## silentspace (Jun 24, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> As best I can tell, Anya will do what her goddess tells her




Yep, it makes it easy on a GM, don't it?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jun 24, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Yep, it makes it easy on a GM, don't it?



Especially when your deity is so capricious.  I could justify sending you to purchase cinnabons.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jun 24, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Especially when your deity is so capricious.  I could justify sending you to purchase cinnabons.





mmmm..... cinnabons....

In one of my games we had a mage who _geas_ed people to fetch him ham sandwiches. Cinnabons questing enforced by a deity is so much classier.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 24, 2004)

Fairweather is a traveler.  And she can be a do-gooder.  And if there's some good needing to be done while she traveling, so much the better.  Seriously, drop an evil warlord on her head, she'll figure out something to do.  She didn't get this far in life just to see everything she built for her children crumble into dust.


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## silentspace (Jun 24, 2004)

Cinnabons!  What a great deity!


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jul 4, 2004)

*bump* For people who lost their subsciptions....


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 5, 2004)

So Paxus, what's our estimated start time?  Just curious.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jul 5, 2004)

I'm honestly not certain.  I've got hooks to get you to the location, but I haven't had time to build the hook into the adventure itself yet.


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## Ghostknight (Jul 6, 2004)

Well, I'm definitely looking forward to getting going with this.  Its been a long time since I played a high level character!

So PA, I for one, while eager, am happy to wait for you to get something you are happy with!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 17, 2004)

Hi there, me again, just checking up to see if this game was still in the pipe.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jul 17, 2004)

I'm trying to come up with things.  Feel free to throw random adventure hook ideas my way.  I'm sorry about the delay; something about the combination of actually working and the summer heat is just sapping my initiative.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 17, 2004)

Umm... with no idea about the overall plot is, so I'll make one up and do adventure hooks from there.  

There's a terrible force known as the Crimson Tide, the life-force of the original mother-goddess, who was killed by her own children out of their greed for her power.  Her power flowed out of the universe, and the Creator punished the children by making them the first mortals and denying them the powers of the gods.  The Creator created a new mother goddess and new gods to take over the duties of the corrupted ones, and everything proceeded well for a time.

Uncountable eons later, the Crimson Tide is coming back, no longer exploding away, but imploding back on the multiverse.  The ensuing chaos and overload of raw power could destroy the universe.  Only powerful heroes can stop it!

The first inklings of the return of the Crimson Tide are subtle, but are enough for Fate to gather together the heroes it needs.  Anya and Sumi first notice it when the very fabric of luck and chance begins to warp.  Entirely unprobable things start to happen, from a cup not breaking when dropped on a stone floor to a single man destroying an army.  Terrified at this loss of her control over luck, the goddess of Luck dispatches her two finest clerics to investigate the source, which seems to be coming from the Badlands, a cursed and lifeless place that is the sight where the first mother-goddess died.

Fairweather starts to notice strange and terrible changes happening to the natural world, from animals aging too fast, or even regressing in age, normally docile creatures attacking people, and raveous wolves running from mice.  Alarmed by such changes, she begins to search for the source of the disturbances, finding they seem to be coming from the Badlands.

Domina finds that some of those around her seem to be agitated and fighting for no reason.  Her old Company is dragged into battle after battle, and all around her she starts to see the breakdown of social order, and the increased instance of lawless bandits laying waste to whatever they want.  Remembering her own childhood, she goes to put a stop to it, realizing as she does that the closer she gets to the Badlands the worse it gets.

Jesper suddenly finds that his carefully-controlled guild is starting to break down as more and more of his employees start to commit inexplicable crimes.  Something is agitating even the most cool and collected amongst them, causing widespread chaos and disorder that is making it impossible to do business.  And all of this chaos seems to be centered on the Badlands...

So, that's my stab at it.  I hope that inspires you!


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jul 17, 2004)

I am amazed, and know not what to say.  I think I'm going to have to use the basics of that idea.  Thank you, from the bottom of my (admittedly small and withered) heart.  With luck, by tomorrow I will have an IC thread started.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 19, 2004)

I'm glad you liked it!  I can't wait to get started.  Whee!


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Jul 19, 2004)

I am quite ready to get started as well, and am glad Isida inspired you. I was going to throw something out, but Isida's post scared me off.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jul 21, 2004)

Better late than never, IC thread is up here.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jul 25, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> OOC: I see you've named the Goddess of Luck Tyche now. Do you have any more information about her?




I can come up with it.  What would you like to know?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 25, 2004)

PA, I renamed the subject for this thread...  If you want to be something else please let me know.  (aka now accepting alternates, recruiting, etc.)

Thanks,
BS 
PbP Moderator


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jul 30, 2004)

Ghostknight - Yes, I like Dory.  I really like Finding Nemo.  Why?  Because it's freaking hilarious!   

And I had to put something for me to do considering Fairweather has had no interaction for a while.  I wanted to put something so Paxus would know I'm still here.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Aug 13, 2004)

silentspace said:
			
		

> Question: Do Coure Eladrins need to breath when they are in their alternate form of a glowing ball of light?



Incorporeal creatures do not need to breathe.


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## silentspace (Aug 19, 2004)

I'll be travelling again, from next week to mid-September (driving cross-country and going to Burning Man).  

Anya feels the crimson sea, the first strange occurance, is the most important, and will investigate as closely as possible.  If it's necessary to go underwater, she and Sumi will do so using Alter Self, Polymorph, Water Breathing, or Shapechange, whatever seems the most appropriate at the time.  Kira will be in her alternate form as a glowing ball of light (very dim to no illumination).  Alternatively, they might Plane Shift to the Ethereal Plane and scout around, if they see dangers or obstacles they might be able to bypass doing so.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Aug 27, 2004)

Paxus, can you e-mail me please?  barrow at iastate dot edu


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## silentspace (Sep 14, 2004)

Just to let you know I'm back.  I'll post IC if something happens involving Anya


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## Paxus Asclepius (Sep 28, 2004)

Ghostknight: in general, followers are NPC classes; an adept would be acceptable, but a wizard not.


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## Ghostknight (Sep 28, 2004)

Thats fine.  I don;t plan on them actually aving to stand up in battle, it just felt right to have a highly intelligent magical type running the headquarters.  An adept works as well for me as a wizard.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Sep 28, 2004)

Still here, still swimming...


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## Paxus Asclepius (Sep 28, 2004)

Sorry about the delay; I moved into my dorm room yesterday, and I'm still sorting things out.  I should be able to advance the plot fairly soon, for everyone.


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## silentspace (Oct 8, 2004)

That sea beast was nasty!

Anyway, looking at how to prep for ocean adventures, potentially against creatures like the nasty one at sea, I noticed something in Anya's character sheet.

I purchased Anya's extra spells as scrolls and scribed them into her spellbooks.  I learned later that according to the PHB, p179, new spells only cost spell level x 50 gp.  The way I did it, it cost Anya 32,050 gp to buy scrolls.  Following the PHB rules it would cost 5,900 gp.  So I'd like to have that extra 26,150 gp back!  Sorry for the error.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Oct 8, 2004)

You may have it in cash; the purchase of additional items, with the nature of your immediate task revealed, might seem to lend advantage which others do not posses.


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## silentspace (Oct 8, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> You may have it in cash; the purchase of additional items, with the nature of your immediate task revealed, might seem to lend advantage which others do not posses.




I was thinking of buying a wand of acid arrow for Kira.  It's not possible to use the boots of teleportation (they have two) to teleport to a city, buy a wand, and teleport back?  It's not like they're really high cost items.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Oct 9, 2004)

That's fine; it was the retroactive purchase of items to which I objected, not the use of your own current powers to use your money to do so.


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## Goddess FallenAngel (Nov 23, 2004)

Hey all,

I am, unfortunately, going to have to regretfully resign from this game. I highly enjoyed playing (sorry about that, after wanting the game in the first place) but I simply have very little free time left with working 45 hours/week AND restarting school.

I again apologize, I had thought that I would have more time left, but that is not the case. I hope the everyone enjoys the game!


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