# Catalyst Game Labs might be on life support



## darjr (Mar 17, 2010)

Adam Jury is no longer with them. Is it a rumor?

Twitter / Adam Jury: I have left my job at Cata ...

No longer with Catalyst Game Labs / IMR | Adam Jury

Catalyst Game Labs Dead? - RPGnet Forums

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> Originally Posted by *Catalyst going Belly-Up! - Blutschwerter*
> _OK, as you may well have been able  to surmise from release schedules, Catalyst Game Labs is in a bit of a  financial pickle, and it is somewhat unlikely that they will retain the  license to make Shadowrun products. This is not because Shadowrun hasn't  been selling enough to cover expenses, but merely because a significant  quantity of money is missing outright. Reliable sources put this figure  at roughly $850,000. Which sounds like a lot, and it is. It is roughly  40% of Catalyst's entire sales for last year, missing over a three year  period. There will of course be lawsuits, and there are already people  drawing up legal documents accusing Loren Coleman of having hired people  to construct an extension on his house through the company as  "freelance writers" and somehow reporting an estimated $100,000 of  convention sales as $6,000. Whether that is actually true or not is - of  course - a matter for the courts to decide. And decide they presumably  will.
> 
> But what that means for Catalyst as a company is pretty bad. It costs  several dollars to print a book even when the pdfs are finished and  ready for publication. A print run of say, 50,000 books (like the print  run of Runner Havens) would cost somewhere between $150,000 and $250,000  to print and ship to distributors. And while it eventually sold to  distributors at ~$15 a book (a total take home of $750,000), it did so  over a period of three years, during which time they were paying  interest on loans and paying for storage, and advertisement and so on  and so forth. A book like that isn't actually taking home half a million  in profits. Which is a bad thing, because it means that even if there  was a complete book printed and ready to sell, even a total and rapid  sell through would not pull the company out of the financial hole it is  in - and the shortfall means that it does not have the cash on hand to  start the ball rolling with a new major printing.
> ...



Is it a rumor? I can't seem to find it at Dumpshock now.


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## Crothian (Mar 17, 2010)

There's a thread on RPG.Net about it.


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## Cadfan (Mar 17, 2010)

I don't know enough about the internal workings of Catalyst to judge these sources.  Does anyone else know anything about the credibility of these rumors?  Because this is either a really horrible thing, or libel.


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## MerricB (Mar 17, 2010)

Let's see... yep. It's definitely a rumor. No doubt about it! 

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Mar 17, 2010)

If it is true, it'll make me very sad: Catalyst has been doing an excellent job with the BattleTech license recently. 

It should be noted that their recent releases for BattleTech have all been PDF, not print. The last print book for BattleTech I bought was the Major Periphery States (late 2009). I would have expected the RPG to be out in hardback by now, but there's no sign of it.

At the end of last year, they posted the following projected releases for Q1, 2010:

BattleTech 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set - no sign

A Time of War: The BattleTech RPG [Hardcover, full-color, roleplaying game] - PDF only

Technical Readout: 3060 [Catalyst-branded reprint] - OUT! (PDF; I think the print version is out, late 2009)

HexPack: Lakes and Rivers [A Terrain Expansion] - no sign

Record Sheets: 3060 - OUT! (pdf)

Record Sheets: 3075 - OUT! (pdf)

Historicals: Operation Klondike - PDF only

Cheers!


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## darjr (Mar 17, 2010)

Is it false?

I hope so.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted it?


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## MerricB (Mar 17, 2010)

Only thing in particular from Catalyst was on their twitter feed:

"I know rumors abound on the internet right now, but I'd like to ask people to stay calm and wait for official word before panicking. jmh"

CatalystGameLab (catalystgamelab) on Twitter

Cheers!


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## ProfessorCirno (Mar 17, 2010)

Right now it's more or less just one rumor spawning itself and spreading all coming from one unknown source.

I'll wait for official word


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## MichaelSomething (Mar 17, 2010)

I can't help but think that it is very ironic that the company that makes Shadowrun is being brought down by dirty corporate dealings.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 17, 2010)

Adam Jury is a pretty well respected figure in game design. If he resigned his position over this, I think there's a good chance that there's more to the allegations than mere rumor.


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## Treebore (Mar 17, 2010)

IF this ends up being true it just means I will not be buying anymore Shadowrun. I am happy enough with what Catalyst has done to not be interested in buying anything anyone else does. So combined with all the previous 3 editions of materials I have bought, I will consider my collection complete.

I do hope they stay in business, though. Like I said, I have enjoyed their work.


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## Centurion13 (Mar 17, 2010)

The guy who brought the capital to fund CGL has bailed. And so did the woman keeping the books.

I gathered that from the first post.  This sounds like the beginning of the end, folks.  One corrupt guy in charge is all it takes.

Cent13


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## jaerdaph (Mar 17, 2010)

Centurion13 said:


> The guy who brought the capital to fund CGL has bailed. And so did the woman keeping the books.
> 
> I gathered that from the first post.  This sounds like the beginning of the end, folks.  One corrupt guy in charge is all it takes.
> 
> Cent13




First post from an account that was just created?

Yep. Good enough for me.


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## Adam Jury (Mar 17, 2010)

Years ago, I had an enworld account, but goodness knows I can't quickly find the login info today ...



Centurion13 said:


> The guy who brought the capital to fund CGL has bailed. And so did the woman keeping the books.
> 
> I gathered that from the first post.  This sounds like the beginning of the end, folks.  One corrupt guy in charge is all it takes.




If I'm misreading this post, I apologize, but it sounds to me like you're saying I brought capital into CGL: this is untrue. I do not own any portion of the company; I was just a staff member/contractor, and now I'm not.


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## Centurion13 (Mar 17, 2010)

Nah, I was referring to Stansel-Garner.  Hell, I might be wrong about him, too.

Ignore me, please/.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 17, 2010)

Well, it's not a rumor. Here's the official announcement.


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## MerricB (Mar 17, 2010)

That's a nice announcement. It leaves me feeling hopeful.

Of course, it might just be nicely judged spin, but I prefer feeling hopeful.

Cheers!


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## darjr (Mar 17, 2010)

Me to. Hope is good.


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## MerricB (Mar 17, 2010)

Compare to Palladium's "Crisis of Treachery" hysteria...

Cheers!


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## jdrakeh (Mar 17, 2010)

MerricB said:


> Compare to Palladium's "Crisis of Treachery" hysteria...




I don't think that's a valid comparison just yet.


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## Truth Seeker (Mar 17, 2010)

Oh...what did I miss?


MerricB said:


> Compare to Palladium's "Crisis of Treachery" hysteria...
> 
> Cheers!


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## MerricB (Mar 17, 2010)

Truth Seeker said:


> Oh...what did I miss?




It was in 2006.

Palladium Books Press Release
ICv2 - Palladium Goes Public with 'Crisis of Treachery'
Palladium Books - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is low-key in comparison.

Cheers!


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## Truth Seeker (Mar 17, 2010)

Hmmm, I did report the comeback, but yeah...it didn't really catch me.


MerricB said:


> It was in 2006.
> 
> Palladium Books Press Release
> ICv2 - Palladium Goes Public with 'Crisis of Treachery'
> ...


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Mar 17, 2010)

MerricB said:


> That's a nice announcement. It leaves me feeling hopeful.
> 
> Of course, it might just be nicely judged spin, but I prefer feeling hopeful.
> 
> Cheers!



But I was promised we could panick after the official announcement? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I feel betrayed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sounds not so bad...


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## jaerdaph (Mar 17, 2010)

Sounds like somebody got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and then put the cookie back...

Whoopsies - my bad!


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## Truth Seeker (Mar 17, 2010)

"Greed is (not) good"

The movie--Wall Street.



jaerdaph said:


> Sounds like somebody got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and then put the cookie back...
> 
> Whoopsies - my bad!


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## jaerdaph (Mar 17, 2010)

Truth Seeker said:


> "Greed is (not) good"
> 
> The movie--Wall Street.




"I'm sorry (that I got caught)!"


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## Saint_Meerkat (Mar 17, 2010)

MerricB said:


> Compare to Palladium's "Crisis of Treachery" hysteria...
> 
> Cheers!




DARN! You beat me to it!

I was going to say "Compare AND CONTRAST to Palladiums' "Crisis Of Treachery" hysteria..."

Well played, Merric.

EDIT: I was playing Shadowrun at a local gamestore last night when I heard this.

I had recently announced to my friends that I thought Catalyst was the up and coming game company. And, but for...you know.

I also announced to my friends that CNN (Chicken Noodle News) would be a flop, USA Today was too dumbed down to interest anyone, and that no one would ever forego an instantaneous command line internet interface to sit around waiting for pictures to download just so they could click on them.


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## Treebore (Mar 17, 2010)

I too prefer to be hopeful, I am definitely one of the people who have enjoyed what they have been doing.


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## Hunter In Darkness (Mar 17, 2010)

Yeah I hope this works out they have done an awesome job, and they put out great products


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## Nyarlathotep (Mar 17, 2010)

So is there a list yet of who all left (in terms of staff writers/contractors)? Not the management but actual writers?


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## Thanee (Mar 17, 2010)

jaerdaph said:


> Sounds like somebody got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and then put the cookie back...




If the rumored numbers are true, that's one hell of a cookie, though, and quite a bit of it has broken off and has to be picked up first before being put back. 

Bye
Thanee


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## jdrakeh (Mar 17, 2010)

Nyarlathotep said:


> So is there a list yet of who all left (in terms of staff writers/contractors)? Not the management but actual writers?




So far, I'm only aware of Jennifer Harding and Adam Jury leaving.


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## coyote6 (Mar 17, 2010)

Nyarlathotep said:


> So is there a list yet of who all left (in terms of staff writers/contractors)? Not the management but actual writers?




On staff? I think they only had a few on staff (maybe just the line developers), everyone else was freelance (like most RPG companies). The people mentioned as having left weren't primarily writers, either.


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## MerricB (Mar 17, 2010)

Left Catalyst Game Lab:

* Adam Jury (layout and contributions)
* Jennifer Harding (CGL's bookkeeper and office manager) 
* David Stansel-Garner (Operations Manager)

Said they'll no longer working with CGL:

* Rob Boyle (Eclipse Phase)

Cheers!


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## Shemeska (Mar 18, 2010)

MerricB said:


> Said they'll no longer working with CGL:
> 
> * Rob Boyle (Eclipse Phase)




Fudge.


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## coyote6 (Mar 18, 2010)

Quotes I've seen say Boyle, Jury, & co. are going to continue with Eclipse Phase. I guess it just won't be through Catalyst.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 18, 2010)

coyote6 said:


> Quotes I've seen say Boyle, Jury, & co. are going to continue with Eclipse Phase. I guess it just won't be through Catalyst.




Yes, I think that is the intention.


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## Ketjak (Mar 29, 2010)

*New development posted on RPGNet*



Thanee said:


> If the rumored numbers are true, that's one hell of a cookie, though, and quite a bit of it has broken off and has to be picked up first before being put back.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Ingredients have to be bought, mixed into cookie dough, baked, and _then_ replaced. Questions arise about whether or not the ingredients can even be bought, or that enough cookies can be baked to replace the giant-sized cookie that went missing.

I happen to be right smack in the middle of this and though I won't pass information, I am happy to point out information that gets posted.

[BattleTech/Cthulhutech/Eclipse Phase/Shadowrun] CGL Might End [Irwin x1] - Page 44 - RPGnet Forums

Scroll down to post 439 by Frank Trollman. Love him, hate him, ban him, whatever - he happens to have posted an actual letter sent by IMR/Catalyst to freelancers. You don't have to listen to his weird anti-religion ranting, and I advise against it. I also don't condone posting even quasi-private information, but it's out and I prefer Enworld to RPGNet.

(Um, he also posted that on Dumpshock but got himself banned and his post removed, I believe, by showing religious intolerance.)

- Ket


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