# Best Feats for Greatsword Fighter?



## Marius Delphus (Dec 31, 2006)

Got a little bit of a project happening right now, and it involves a group of 25th level characters. Hoping for a few suggestions on the following list of feats I'm contemplating to build the Ultimate Greatsword Fighter... the focus is primarily on hitting hard and secondarily on lasting long enough to hit some more. Let's assume all the ability and skill prerequisites are met. PHB unless otherwise specified (I think I got it all right); {H} means human bonus feat, {F} means fighter bonus feat, {E} means epic feat. Permitted sources are any WOTC book which is not campaign-world specific. I am the DM, so I'll entertain any and all suggestions that I happen to like. 

So here's what I'm contemplating:

Human Fighter 25

1. Power Attack {H}
1. Weapon Focus (greatsword)
1. Combat Reflexes {F}
2. Cleave {F}
3. Iron Will
4. Weapon Spec (greatsword) {F}
6. Lightning Reflexes
6. Improved Sunder {F}
8. Greater Weapon Focus (greatsword) {F}
9. Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing) [PHB2]
10. Improved Critical (greatsword) {F}
12. Armor Specialization (heavy) [PHB2]
12. Greater Weapon Spec (greatsword) {F}
14. Slashing Flurry {F} [PHB2]
15. Defensive Sweep [PHB2]
16. Martial Study (mountain hammer) {F} [BO9S]
18. Martial Study (overwhelming mountain strike) [BO9S]
18. Weapon Supremacy (greatsword) [PHB2] {F}
20. Martial Study (elder mountain hammer) {F} [BO9S]
21. Epic Weapon Focus (greatsword) {E} [CW]
22. Epic Weapon Spec (greatsword) {EF} [ELH]
24. Epic Toughness {E} [CW]
24. Epic Prowess {EF} [ELH]

Thanks in advance!


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## Stalker0 (Dec 31, 2006)

Swap out combat reflexes for improved toughness (complete warrior). Your dex probably won't be high enough to make great use of the feat.


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## Zzyzx (Dec 31, 2006)

Both Iron Will and Lightning reflexes are very defensive choices, which seems to go against your stated goal of hit hard first and survive second.  

That said, I think that they might be very useful choices to shore up the FTR's weak saves if your WIS and DEX are a little below par.  And a charmed or dominated fighter might be a party's worst nightmare.


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## Thanee (Dec 31, 2006)

Combat Reflexes + Improved Trip = great!

Iron Will is necessary, Lightning Reflexes is not.

Bye
Thanee


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## Piratecat (Dec 31, 2006)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Iron Will is necessary, Lightning Reflexes is not.



Yup. As one of my players said, "A failed reflex save kills you. A failed will save kills the entire party."


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## RangerWickett (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm fond of Reckless Offensive from the XPH. +2 to attack in exchange for -4 to AC. And I think Complete Warrior has a tactical feat that lets you take a penalty to AC for power attack damage, instead of a penalty to hit.


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## Darklone (Dec 31, 2006)

Is Sunder necessary? Otherwise I'd pick some nice funny feats from the MiniHB.


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## pawsplay (Jan 1, 2007)

The ultimate greatsword fighter probably wants Improved Buckler Defense unless you plan on investing in an animated shield.


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## Thanee (Jan 1, 2007)

That depends on whether the DM allows it to work with a two-handed weapon, or not.

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Jan 1, 2007)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> I'm fond of Reckless Offensive from the XPH. +2 to attack in exchange for -4 to AC. And I think Complete Warrior has a tactical feat that lets you take a penalty to AC for power attack damage, instead of a penalty to hit.




With those you should also take Karmic Strike. Make the most out of lowering your own AC. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Aaron L (Jan 1, 2007)

Thanee said:
			
		

> That depends on whether the DM allows it to work with a two-handed weapon, or not.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Bucklers explicitly allow the use of a two handed weapon with them.


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## Beckett (Jan 1, 2007)

Aaron L said:
			
		

> Bucklers explicitly allow the use of a two handed weapon with them.




Huh.  I think I'd noticed the same problem with Improved Buckler Defense that Thanee had.  But, looking at the description of the buckler, it says:



> You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round.




So, is using a two handed weapon using a weapon in your off-hand?  Or does that only apply for two weapon fighting.

Although a 25th level character should probably be using an animated shield.


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## Iku Rex (Jan 1, 2007)

I don't especially like Defensive Sweep. Opponents tend to move around a lot in battle. Works well with the combo I'm suggesting below though. Improved Sunder isn't that great either, but I suppose it can be useful if you don't mind destroying your loot. Lightening Reflexes is not that important. If you're worried about area attacks hit points Improved Toughness [CW] is a more reliable defense.

Suggestions: 

Overwhelming Attack (fighter alternate class feature from PHBII - replaces 16th level fighter feat) + Robilar's Gambit (PHBII) = Nasty. Overwhelming attack lets you deal double damage on one attack as a full round action and keep doing double damage on further attacks until your next turn. Robilar's Gambit ensures that you get plenty of AoOs or that you're left alone. Karmic Strike (CW) would make it truly ugly (yet another AoO of they hit you), but requires Combat Expertise and Dodge. Deft Opportunist (CAdv, +4 on AoOs) is also worth considering for an AoO expert. 

As has been pointed out, Improved Buckler Defense (CW) is handy if you don't plan on getting a floaty shield. 

Close Quarters Fighting is almost a must-have for any high level fighter type. As written it requires the grappler to be within your reach though - a potential problem. (A problem with all AoO  based tactics.)

I'm not all that impressed by the maneuvers. Some extra damage/no DR is nice, but I don't think it will matter much to an Epic character.  I'd pick Burning Brand or Burning Blade, Searing Charge and Leaping Flame from Desert Wind. Leaping Flame is the main reason to go with Desert Wind. 

Or, if you like the AoO master concept you could go with Defensive Rebuke, Foehammer (prereq) and Thicket of Blades from Devoted Spirit. If the opponent moves he suffers an AoO (Thicket of Blades). If he doesn't move he suffers an AoO (Defensive Sweep). If he attacks you he suffers an AoO (Robilar's Gambit). If he attacks someone else he suffers an AoO (Defensive Rebuke boost - only once/encounter, so not _that_ useful). 


My (AoO) version: 
Human Fighter 25

1. Power Attack {H}
1. Weapon Focus (greatsword)
1. Combat Reflexes {F}
2. Cleave {F}
3. Iron Will
4. Weapon Spec (greatsword) {F}
6. Lightning Reflexes Improved Toughness [CW]
6. Improved Sunder  Close Quarters Fighting {F}
8. Greater Weapon Focus (greatsword) {F}
9. Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing) [PHB2]
10. Improved Critical (greatsword) {F}
12. Armor Specialization (heavy) [PHB2]
12. Greater Weapon Spec (greatsword) {F}
14. Slashing Flurry Robilar's Gambit  {F} [PHB2]
15. Defensive Sweep [PHB2]
16. Martial Study (mountain hammer)  [BO9S] Overwhelming Attack [AFCF PHB2] {F}
18. Martial Study (elder mountain hammer) [BO9S] Martial Study (foehammer) [BO9S, DS]
18. Weapon Supremacy (greatsword) [PHB2] {F}
20. Martial Study (elder mountain hammer) [BO9S] Martial Stance (thicket of blades) [BO9S, DS]  {F}  
21. Epic Weapon Focus (greatsword) {E} [CW]
22. Epic Weapon Spec (greatsword) {EF} [ELH]
24. Epic Toughness {E} [CW]


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## Iku Rex (Jan 1, 2007)

Beckett said:
			
		

> So, is using a two handed weapon using a weapon in your off-hand?  Or does that only apply for two weapon fighting.



Look at the text you quoted:_ "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round."_ If using a two-handed weapon isn't "using a weapon in your off-hand" you don't even need the feat to benefit from the buckler's AC bonus. 

Edit: Did I just repeat the point you were making?


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## drdevoid (Jan 1, 2007)

*re:THF+Imp Buckler Defense=cheesy AC*



			
				Iku Rex said:
			
		

> Look at the text you quoted:_ "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round."_ If using a two-handed weapon isn't "using a weapon in your off-hand" you don't even need the feat to benefit from the buckler's AC bonus.
> 
> Edit: Did I just repeat the point you were making?




I played a small sized greatsword wielder, and I can say without hesitation that it was gross- and unintentional.

I would go against this unless it was a "no-holds-barred" style campaign and everything was assumed to be high powered (and had a very system-comfortable DM.)


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## Beckett (Jan 1, 2007)

Iku Rex said:
			
		

> Look at the text you quoted:_ "In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round."_ If using a two-handed weapon isn't "using a weapon in your off-hand" you don't even need the feat to benefit from the buckler's AC bonus.
> 
> Edit: Did I just repeat the point you were making?




I think you repeated my point (although I had a bit of confusion going on while I made it).  I recently was plotting out feats for a polearm user, and I had wanted the little extra protection a buckler would give me.  When I was skimming over rules before, I was left with the impression that I'd need Improved Buckler Defense to use a buckler with a two-handed weapon.  But, having just read over the description of a buckler, I guess I don't need it (unless my on-hand and off-hand both being on a single two handed weapon means I'm using a weapon in my off-hand- which I don't think it does).


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## Darklone (Jan 1, 2007)

4th edition help me... I add the buckler confusion (no bash with a historical bash weapon, when to use it how) to my wish list. 

IMHO: IBucklerDefense is pretty much borderline strong. Same goes for me for armor spikes and a two-handed weapon. Or bashing shields and two -weapon fighting... whatever.

Some stuff like this just doesn't sit right with my guts.


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## Iku Rex (Jan 1, 2007)

Beckett said:
			
		

> ... (unless my on-hand and off-hand both being on a single two handed weapon means I'm using a weapon in my off-hand- which I don't think it does).



Then we don't agree.  

IMO "using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon" (buckler description) is the same as "[using] a weapon in your off hand" (buckler description). This is "logically correct", it makes sense and I think it's fairly clear that it's the intent. 

That's why it makes a good example when people argue that you can't "attack with a weapon in your off-hand" (Improved Buckler Defense) if you're using a two-handed weapon.


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## Thanee (Jan 1, 2007)

Aaron L said:
			
		

> Bucklers explicitly allow the use of a two handed weapon with them.




Bucklers do. Improved Buckler Defense does not.

It's the question whether using a weapon in your off-hand only applies to one-handed weapons or also to two-handed weapons.

Just to note... I would allow it, my point was, that others might not. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Darklone (Jan 1, 2007)

I think it's similar to the wording of Haste. One says it gives you an extra attack with all weapons you're holding (wording: extra attack with any weapon), others say just with one weapon... 

I prefer sound ruling over semantics.


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## Quartz (Jan 1, 2007)

Swap out 2 levels of fighter for 2 levels of Monk. You'll get Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes, Evasion, and a much-needed boost to your weak saves. Mithril Chainmail is light armour, so you can still benefit from Evasion. You only lose 1 BAB.


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## pawsplay (Jan 1, 2007)

We just went around about bucklers a few weeks ago. The pertient bits I remember:

1. The description of bucklers uses the same language as the feat, so either IBD works with two-handed weapons, or they are exempt from the loss of AC in the first place. 
2. Two handed weapons are clearly a weapon in your off hand, in every conceivable sense of the phrase. Two weapon fighting is, in D&D, called two weapon fighting (one consequence of which is wielding a weapon in your off hand). 
3. Custserve and every available vaguely official WotC source has come out for IBD working with two handed weapons.


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## Jeph (Jan 1, 2007)

Quartz said:
			
		

> Swap out 2 levels of fighter for 2 levels of Monk. You'll get Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes, Evasion, and a much-needed boost to your weak saves. Mithril Chainmail is light armour, so you can still benefit from Evasion. You only lose 1 BAB.




Since you're into epic levels, you don't even lose BAB. Once a fighter hits level 20, there's almost no reason _not_ to multicalss.


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## Marius Delphus (Jan 1, 2007)

Hey there, thanks so much for all the input... I'm still watching, but I very much like Iku Rex's AoO master idea... as well as swapping out some of the "less useful" feats... please carry on, I'm very grateful 

As a note, the player isn't the least bit interested in a buckler or animated shield, though I floated the idea by.


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## ainbimagh (Jan 1, 2007)

Something to think about as well would be...

improved sunder
power attack
combat brute
improved bull rush
shock trooper
pushback (or knockback if you are goliath/large)
greater sunder

Gives you a lot of control in combat with pushbacks/bullrushes/sunders and charging.

+2 hitroll / +20 damage sundering charge that cleaves into the person after you destroy their armor/shield/weapon is also really.. really nice.

That and I just like the idea of a charging warrior cleaving through someones armor, then their person.


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## Quartz (Jan 2, 2007)

Jeph said:
			
		

> Since you're into epic levels, you don't even lose BAB. Once a fighter hits level 20, there's almost no reason _not_ to multicalss.



You should take the Monk levels before going Epic, though, so you get the benefit of the saves.


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## Darklone (Jan 2, 2007)

If you like the AoO Master, think about Hold the Line... yet another AoO.


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## Thurbane (Jan 2, 2007)

Maybe a silly point, but have you considered specializing in the falchion rather than the greatsword? For 2d4 damage vs. 2d6, you get a 50% better chance of scoring a critical, which is even more significant once you take Keen or Improved Critical into account...


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## Laharl (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi,

I'm planning on making a fighter greatsword too.
I would to know a bit more about the Martial Study Feat. I have bought the Bo9S. But my english reading is not perfect ... (yeah you guess, i'm not an english-speaking guy). 
So here is a part of the feat i don't understand (and the book too...) : "...If you do not have martial adept level, you can use this maneuver once per encounter as a martial adept with an initiator level to 1/2 your charater level..."

Iku_Rex write : 
"18. Martial Study (elder mountain hammer) [BO9S] Martial Study (foehammer) [BO9S, DS]
18. Weapon Supremacy (greatsword) [PHB2] {F}
20. Martial Study (elder mountain hammer) [BO9S] Martial Stance (thicket of blades) [BO9S, DS] {F}"

If i take the maneuver Foehammer, it says : 
"Foehammer
Devoted Spirit (Strike)
Level : Crusader 2
initiation Action : 1 standard action
Range : melee attack
Target : one creature

"...When you use this maneuver, you make a melee attack against a single foe. This attack automatically ..."
"

So i have 2 questions about those infos:
 - first : according to the Martial Study feat, i can only use this once an encounter?   
 - second : "Level : Crusader 2" means i can take this feat at level 4 as a fighter? (according to the 1/2 initiator level)?

Thx in advance for answer 

Laharl.


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## Amazing Triangle (Jan 2, 2007)

I am really surprised that no one has offered Leap Attack.  For a greatsword fighter who is power attacking 5 gets 15 back on damage.  Improved Sunder and Combat Brute so you can do it again the following round.  This gives you two rounds of 5 for 15  

Why not Endurance and Indomitable Soul? So your Con score bonus is also used for your wis bonus...


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## Iku Rex (Jan 2, 2007)

Laharl said:
			
		

> - first : according to the Martial Study feat, i can only use this once an encounter?



Yes.


			
				Laharl said:
			
		

> - second : "Level : Crusader 2" means i can take this feat at level 4 as a fighter? (according to the 1/2 initiator level)?



 No.

Your highest level maneuver known is based on your initiator level and the table on page 39. To pick a 2nd level maneuver you must be initiator level 3, or level 6 (/2 = 3) if you're not a martial adept.


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## Iku Rex (Jan 2, 2007)

Amazing Triangle said:
			
		

> I am really surprised that no one has offered Leap Attack.  For a greatsword fighter who is power attacking 5 gets 15 back on damage.



20 actually.

One of the many older threads on the subject:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178197

WotC CustServ's answer:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3136999&postcount=32
With added clarification:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3138082&postcount=33


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## Endur (Jan 2, 2007)

Epic Feat: Devastating Critical (Draconomicon, ELH) is the best feat for an epic fighter.

Save or die on a critical hit.  Most things you critical hit will now be making two saving throws to save alive; one for massive damage and one for devastating critical.  Even with high fort saves, that's a 10% chance of removing the enemy from the table with a critical hit.

Devastating Critical pre-reqs are:  

Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical: extra damage on a critical hit

and

Great Cleave: Can come in very handy against large numbers of opponents.


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## Laharl (Jan 2, 2007)

Iku Rex said:
			
		

> ...



Maybe i miss something but, wasting 1 feat for one Strike who will make 2d6 per encounter ...   no?


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## Iku Rex (Jan 2, 2007)

Laharl said:
			
		

> Maybe i miss something but, wasting 1 feat for one Strike who will make 2d6 per encounter ...   no?



 It also lets you bypass DR, but yes, it's not worth a high level feat by itself. However, you need a devoted spirit maneuver to qualify for the Thicket of Blades stance. An epic fighter using Overwhelming Attack can easily do 100+ damage with a single hit, so an extra AoO is no small advantage.


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## Aaron L (Jan 2, 2007)

Laharl said:
			
		

> Maybe i miss something but, wasting 1 feat for one Strike who will make 2d6 per encounter ...   no?




Welcomr to ENWorld, Laharl!


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## zeb.hillard (Jan 2, 2007)

Darklone said:
			
		

> If you like the AoO Master, think about Hold the Line... yet another AoO.




When using a Greatsword...Hold the Line + Improved Trip (Along with a high strength bonus) can stop a charge cold, and if you have Improved Unarmed Strike (From the two levels of Monk you should take), you can trip with an unarmed strike at full power attack (Since the trip attack is a touch attack, after all), and then attack them with the Greatsword when they're prone for horrendous damage (Assuming of course, your DM doesn't force you to make the free attack with the same weapon that you tripped with).


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## Laharl (Jan 2, 2007)

Hi again!
I don't have Epic Level Handbook. So, from 1 to 20 what about this :

1	Vulnerable (Flaw) (UA)
1	Improve Initiative (PH)
1	Power Attack (PH)
1	Weapon Focus (Greatsword) (PH)
1	Combat Reflexes (PH)
2	Cleave (PH)
3	Mage Slayer (CA)
4	Weapon Spe (Greatsword) (PH)
6	Improve Toughness (CW)
6	Close Combat Fighting (CW)
8	Improve Critical  (PH)
9	Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword) (PH)
10	Melee Weapon Spe (Slashing)
12	Greater Weapon Spe (Greatsword) (PH)
12	Robilar's Gambit (PH2)
14	Great Cleave (PH)
15	Defensive Sweep (PH2)
16	Overpowering Attack (AFCF PH2)
----------
18	Martial Stance : Thicket of Blade (Devo, 3th level) (BO9S)
18	Martial Study : Strike of Righteous Vitality (Devo, 9th level) (BO9S)
20	Weapon Supremacy (Greatsword) (PH2)
OR
18          Martial Stance : Supreme Blade Parry (Iron, 8th level) (BO9S)
18          Martial Study : Strike of Perfect Clarity (Iron 9th level) (BO9S)
20 Weapon Supremacy (Greatsword) (PH2)


Does this list respect the constraint : "Permitted sources are any WOTC book which is not campaign-world specific."?

And one thing about those AoO. If you take a chain as weapon it will allow you to threaten more area and so more foes. 
But what about bows? Can you threaten a mage with a bow (i think about Mage Slayer ... but too easy i think).


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## zeb.hillard (Jan 2, 2007)

Laharl said:
			
		

> Hi again!
> 1	Improve Initiative (PH)
> 1	Combat Reflexes (PH)




You don't want Improved Initiative if you plan on taking multiple attacks.  With Combat Reflexes allowing you to take AoO's when you're flat-footed, you should let the enemy make the mistake of moving up to you first, and then adjusting 5 feet and mowing them down when you get to your action.  With 20 levels of high hit points, you can easily take the hits (Unless you plan on going into a Pounce-using Greatsword fighter, which it looks like you aren't), then then swing back on them...getting the better end of the deal.

Also, if you're taking Mage Slayer (Which I only really recommend with a reach weapon and Improved Unarmed Strike, or a Gauntlet so you can threaten 10' all-around) you shoudl SERIOUSLY consider taking Pierce Magical Protections, as the benefits that it gives you seriously hamper high level Wizards who are spell-reliant on defenses.


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## Iku Rex (Jan 3, 2007)

Laharl said:
			
		

> 18	Martial Stance : Thicket of Blade (Devo, 3th level) (BO9S)
> 18	Martial Study : Strike of Righteous Vitality (Devo, 9th level) (BO9S)
> 20	Weapon Supremacy (Greatsword) (PH2)
> OR
> ...



You can't take 8th and 9th level maneuvers. Like I said earlier the highest level maneuver you can choose depends on your initiator level and the table on page 39. Your initiator level is 1/2 the fighter level, so the highest level maneuver available is 5. 

You also need to meet the prerequisites for each maneuver, typically maneuvers already known in the same discipline.


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## Endur (Jan 3, 2007)

Laharl said:
			
		

> 1	Vulnerable (Flaw) (UA)
> 1	Improve Initiative (PH)
> 1	Power Attack (PH)
> 1	Weapon Focus (Greatsword) (PH)
> ...




I would probably take Great Cleave at level 6 and Improved Toughness at level 14.


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## Marius Delphus (Jan 3, 2007)

All of which only points up that either (1) not even a fighter really has enough feat slots, or (2) the number of feats available makes customizing your character a real "pleasure." 

A couple other notes from the player about this particular character that might be relevant. The character's been a single-classed fighter since 1982 and "always will be," so no "funny business with multiclassing" (as interesting as I think the monk levels idea might be). We both totally blanked on the Critical feats from ELH, but they definitely make the cut. I also got read the riot act for forgetting Great Cleave; even though I think it's not really useful against high-CR foes, I'm reminded that this character is also supposed to singlehandedly rout lower-CR minion mobs. 

The character needs to eke a couple more points of DEX out of his equipment to power AoOs (good thing he knows a couple epic spellcasters that might agree to help him out on that score), but I think we're on to something that's full of fun-to-play clobber potential with this build. Maybe not the height of min-max but still something that wades into battle in full plate and does a crazy amount of damage with a big honkin' sword.

Thanks again for your comments folks, and keep 'em coming if you think I need to consider something else.  I'll also be back with an archer thread as soon as I finish plumbing my books and deciding what sort of feats Legolas's *instructor* might have had. 

1. Power Attack {H}
1. Weapon Focus (greatsword)
1. Combat Reflexes {F}
2. Cleave {F}
3. Iron Will
4. Weapon Spec (greatsword) {F}
6. Improved Toughness [CW]
6. Close Quarters Fighting [CW] {F}
8. Greater Weapon Focus (greatsword) {F}
9. Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing) [PHB2]
10. Improved Critical (greatsword) {F}
12. Great Cleave
12. Greater Weapon Spec (greatsword) {F}
14. Robilar's Gambit {F} [PHB2]
15. Defensive Sweep [PHB2]
16. Replace fighter feat with Overwhelming Attack class feature [PHB2]
18. Martial Study (foehammer) [BO9S]
18. Weapon Supremacy (greatsword) [PHB2] {F}
20. Martial Stance (thicket of blades) [BO9S] {F}
21. Epic Weapon Focus (greatsword) {E} [CW]
22. Epic Weapon Spec (greatsword) {EF} [ELH]
24. Overwhelming Critical {E} [ELH]
24. Devastating Critical {EF} [ELH]


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## Ferghis (Jan 9, 2007)

Marius Delphus said:
			
		

> 15. Defensive Sweep [PHB2]



I was wondering if a character with so many attacks of opportunity per round wouldn't benefit more from Deft Opportunist from the Miniatures Handbook. Adding +4 to hit (or +8 to damage) seems more useful on each AoO that the character is already triggering (especially using Robilar's Gambit), than a feat that will add another AoO that the character might not be able to use because he's hit the Dex Bonus limit on AoOs. No?


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## Ferghis (Jan 9, 2007)

Oh, and at Epic Level, wouldn't you want _some_ DR or Fast Healing, just to not depend _completely_ on the cleric?


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## Marius Delphus (Jan 9, 2007)

The character's final Dex will be at least 20 to ensure 5 available AoOs. His level 26 feat will likely be Improved Combat Reflexes (unlimited AoOs), assuming his Dex gets to 21. I'll have a look at Deft Opportunist (no books atm).

I'm not sure this really speaks to the feat list, but apart from a really terrific epic sword (epic and legendary, in fact), the character will have really terrific epic armor that will take care of damage mitigation and will be carrying or wearing another item that will grant some kind of regeneration or fast healing. But I agree those are great epic feats to consider for levels 27 and 28.


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## Ferghis (Jan 9, 2007)

Marius Delphus said:
			
		

> The character's final Dex will be at least 20 to ensure 5 available AoOs.



I have to admit that 20 dex is pretty high for a Tank. I thought privileging Str and Con would have left a lower stat for Dex, which is why I was suggesting improving the the AoO the character already had, and not looking for new ones. Btw, All _Deft Opportunist_ does is add +4 to hit to the character's AoO. And just to nitpick, I think Dex 20 would give you 6 AoO per round. One base plus 5 for the +5 Dex bonus, unless the SRD has been corrected by a more authoritative source. 







> If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round.


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## Marius Delphus (Jan 9, 2007)

Ferghis said:
			
		

> I have to admit that 20 dex is pretty high for a Tank. I thought privileging Str and Con would have left a lower stat for Dex, which is why I was suggesting improving the the AoO the character already had, and not looking for new ones.



Between magical books and magical gear, I think DEX 20's very doable while getting STR to 30 and CON at least 20. If it sounds like an awful lot of attribute points, maybe it is, but this whole thing is mainly an experiment anyway -- these characters took on H4 after all, and I think they deserve really terrific epic 3.5 writeups. Certainly nobody in the party started with any 8s. 

Course, that'll make it all the better if they break out of retirement and take on an actual adventure only to learn that I still have a mean streak as a DM. 



> Btw, All _Deft Opportunist_ does is add +4 to hit to the character's AoO. And just to nitpick, I think Dex 20 would give you 6 AoO per round. One base plus 5 for the +5 Dex bonus, unless the SRD has been corrected by a more authoritative source.



Okay. For some reason I always read Combat Reflexes as:



			
				Marius's Brain said:
			
		

> If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can make as many attacks of opportunity as you have points of Dexterity bonus.



I'm sure the player will take the extra; I'm not anticipating any complaints at all on that one.  Five seemed about right when I was thinking about it so maybe we can shift some gear cash into CON... ponder ponder. Thanks for the heads-up.

EDIT: But what a silly misreading that is on my part, now that I think of it. Suppose you have DEX 13 and Combat Reflexes... how many AoOs do you get? Obviously it's got to be more than one, for the price of a feat. So 1+DEXBON *must* be right.


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