# How much damage does lava do?



## dontremb (Feb 12, 2010)

I've been trying to find out how much damage lava would do?

I found a Lava Trap, and this COULD work, but is there a place that actually states how much damage it does?


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## Larrin (Feb 12, 2010)

Fire and Brimstone! Lava Rules For Your Game

I think this may have been embraced in 4e


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## dontremb (Feb 12, 2010)

Larrin said:


> Fire and Brimstone! Lava Rules For Your Game
> 
> I think this may have been embraced in 4e





Holy crap, that's funny.


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## Amaroq (Feb 12, 2010)

Presuming you're a DM, I'd say its up to you, and you should scale it to the approximate level of the party.

Keep in mind that there's lava in many different forms - if you have a low-level party, they're fighting near a cool, slow-flowing, almost-solidified lava flow .. falling into it hurts, but it doesn't kill instantly.

If you have an epic-level party, they're fighting near a high-heat, fast-flowing lava flow ... falling into it does enough damage to kill a low-level character, but due to the heroic nature of the high-level character, it doesn't kill them immediately.

I'd refer to you to pg 42 of the DMG; you might find a low to medium limited-damage expression appropriate for "lands square in the lava" or "one-time effect from a trap", and a low normal-damage expression appropriate for any "save ends" effect.

I would also reccomend lava as more useful as a terrain feature than as a trap, per-se ... or if you're going to use it as a trap, make it possible for the PC's to also use the lava against the enemy after they've been hit. Encounters are a lot more fun when your shifting, pushing, and immobilizing powers can be used to push the bad guys into lava!


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## lukelightning (Feb 12, 2010)

If you really want to be "realistic", remember that lava, while a liquid, is incredibly dense; it is just marginally less dense than solid stone. A person falling into lava will float on top of it (well, assuming they aren't burnt to ashes...). Rocks, however, will generally not float in lava, since they are denser than the molten rock.

I think that in general, rivers of lava should be used only for high-level adventures; don't start off level 1 characters fighting across molten pools of doom — this isn't only for game-balance issues, but also to allow room for the threats to grow. If you are confronting your low-level PCs with lava, what are you going to threaten them with at level 20 — rivers of antimatter?


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## Flipguarder (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm a big fan of "ok, now im going to show something to you, and you should assume it will kill you".

I'm totally in favor of having lava do a lethal amount of damage at level 1 and non-lethal past level 10.

But I believe I'm in the minority.


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## AbdulAlhazred (Feb 12, 2010)

I agree with most of the sentiment here. Make the lava that low level PCs run into be the less dangerous types. High level PCs can adventure in the Pits of Doom in the Elemental Chaos where the lava is high level.

Really you can simply declare the lava to be hindering terrain of a level appropriate to the party. Then just have it do a low limited damage expression of that level. If the PCs are 20th level then the lava is super hot and dangerous. If they're 1st level its relatively cool and still equally dangerous to a character of that level. You can always have different leveled areas of lava here and there for 'really dangerous spots' or 'less dangerous spots' relative to the party level.


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## lukelightning (Feb 12, 2010)

Maybe they _think_ it's lava, but really it's orangeade with wasabi added to it.


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## UngeheuerLich (Feb 12, 2010)

No, just think about this way: Lava doesn´t scale with level, but the damage does!

Why? because your heroic luck which is most of your HP doesn´t help you a lot (maybe you fall onto a little bit colder part which is more solid)

Use page 42 expressions equal to the character´s level who falls into the lava. Or more elegant: burn healing surges or reduce to bloodied in first round and dead in the next (which favours wizards a bit)

Or even more elegant: dead, no save!

edit: when i think about it: burn 4 healing surges per turn and damage equal to page 42^^


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## ValhallaGH (Feb 12, 2010)

dontremb said:


> Holy crap, that's funny.



Download the .pdf (top right of the linked page).  It has flow charts, clear diagrams, and even a couple game play examples (one for D&D and one for WoD: Vampire).

Clear, flavorful, interesting, and simple.  The best lava rules I've ever seen.


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## N0Man (Feb 12, 2010)

ValhallaGH said:


> Download the .pdf (top right of the linked page).  It has flow charts, clear diagrams, and even a couple game play examples (one for D&D and one for WoD: Vampire).
> 
> Clear, flavorful, interesting, and simple.  The best lava rules I've ever seen.




Brilliant!

I've used this source book since the first time I saw it a few years ago.  I found out about it through a post from one of the 4E WotC guys, who mentioned that they were big fans of the book.


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 12, 2010)

lukelightning said:


> If you are confronting your low-level PCs with lava, what are you going to threaten them with at level 20 — *rivers of antimatter*?



That's completely awesome, and totally stolen for when my game gets to 20th level.


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## FireLance (Feb 13, 2010)

In the last adventure I ran, I had 5th-level characters in a volcano fighting a three-stage encounter while trying to stay ahead of a slowly advancing tide of "magical fire". Any character who started his turn in the "magical fire" took 2d6+4 fire damage. For many of the reasons already stated in this thread, I decided not to call it "lava"


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## Jarrod (Feb 13, 2010)

5 damage per round. 

What?

Check out the volcanic dragon's "lava vent" power. It creates a zone of lava that does 5 damage per round (the adult, 13th level one). So obviously level 13 lava does 5 damage per round


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## Starfox (Feb 13, 2010)

Lava Damage in 4E: Check DMG1, p 42.

What looks like lava at lvl 1 is probably just cooled magma with residual glow.


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## Flipguarder (Feb 13, 2010)

Ive thought about it for a while and I've come to my conclusion. If you enter or end your turn in lava you take 3d12 fire damage and 5 ongoing fire damage.

That's my personal conclusion.


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## The Human Target (Feb 13, 2010)

Falling in lava and living is one of those "thats too silly for me to believe" DnD moments.

So Lava is fun to look at, but not meant to be played with.


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## Turtlejay (Feb 13, 2010)

The Human Target said:


> Falling in lava and living is one of those "thats too silly for me to believe" DnD moments.
> 
> So Lava is fun to look at, but not meant to be played with.




I. . .agree.  D&D is a game of near misses.  The orc attacks with his battleaxe, and hits your armor, your shield, the ground. . .but never actually cleaves into you.  HP's would be single digits if that is how things worked.  You might get nicked or sliced, but nothing serious.

I have a hard time seeing a *normal* character fall into lava and not die from the damage it would do to him, inside and out.  Explain away high level characters with their magic armor and blessings from bahamut or whatnot, but if a 1st level Warlord falls into lava, he is not just going to be able to rub some dirt on it and be fine.

If a 1st level character falls into 'lava', he should be falling onto cooled lava.  Something hot enough to hurt, but not kill.  Or, just be a ruthless DM and make them dead.  As long as everyone is on the same page going in, it shouldn't be a huge problem.

Jay


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## DracoSuave (Feb 13, 2010)

Turtlejay said:


> but if a 1st level Warlord falls into lava, he is not just going to be able to rub some dirt on it and be fine.




Dare I say, getting dirt on it is the problem to begin with.

Hot.  Molten.  Liquid.  Dirt.


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## aco175 (Feb 14, 2010)

I tend to view lava as burn your eyes out just by looking at it hot.  Where did I read 20d6 damage- 3.0 rules?  Thats hot!

I would agree with some of the other posters in that I would use less damaging forms and allow them to take some damage to show them to be careful, but allow them to be stupid, or brave, depending on their view.


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## Nebten (Feb 14, 2010)

Yah in 3.x it was 2d6 if you come in contact with lava and 20d6 if you get submerged in it (been there, not fun).

So to translate it over I would say 2d10 contact, 20d10 if you get submerged.


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## The Human Target (Feb 14, 2010)

Turtlejay said:


> I. . .agree.  D&D is a game of near misses.  The orc attacks with his battleaxe, and hits your armor, your shield, the ground. . .but never actually cleaves into you.  HP's would be single digits if that is how things worked.  You might get nicked or sliced, but nothing serious.
> 
> I have a hard time seeing a *normal* character fall into lava and not die from the damage it would do to him, inside and out.  Explain away high level characters with their magic armor and blessings from bahamut or whatnot, but if a 1st level Warlord falls into lava, he is not just going to be able to rub some dirt on it and be fine.
> 
> ...




I'm the kinda DM (for good or ill) thats says "Oh you got knocked over a cliff edge into lava? You hang onto the edge for a brief terrifying moment and manage to climb up. Lose a turn."

Losing a turn and looking like a punk is unfun enough for me.

Melting takes it to another level.


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## Fkewl (Feb 15, 2010)

If you have DDI, get the Shadowrift of Umbraforge (Scales of War) and look into the Dark Foundry encounter (lv5 enc)

Basically : 1d10 falling dmg, then 2d12 dmg per round until you get out

In the Smoke and Shadow encounter (lv4 enc), 2d12dmg for entering the lava rift and 1d12 dmg for ending your turn next to it


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## Turtlejay (Feb 15, 2010)

The Human Target said:


> I'm the kinda DM (for good or ill) thats says "Oh you got knocked over a cliff edge into lava? You hang onto the edge for a brief terrifying moment and manage to climb up. Lose a turn."
> 
> Losing a turn and looking like a punk is unfun enough for me.
> 
> Melting takes it to another level.




I agree, and I would never have an encounter take place around *actual* lava at low level for that reason.  I don't want to kill/melt my friends and ruin part of their evening.  It might be a lake of supernatural fire (that does damage based on magic, not science!) or a tiger pit. . .or icy water.  Actual, flowing, Gollum killing lava is reserved for levels where they can withstand it's majesty through magic or other means.

Jay


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## ValhallaGH (Feb 15, 2010)

Turtlejay said:


> I agree, and I would never have an encounter take place around *actual* lava at low level for that reason.  I don't want to kill/melt my friends and ruin part of their evening.




Dude.  You have lava pits now!?  I have *got* to get back to Tucson.  It has obviously leveled up in my absence.


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## xXElaDriNDrizZztXx (Feb 15, 2010)

I don't let my players wash their hands in the hot lava.


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## unan oranis (Feb 15, 2010)

I roll damage for being near lava.

For being *in* lava, I use the fire and brimstone rules.

Especially in 4e, where insta-killz are hard to find, adhering to the fire and brimstone rules creates a special intensity. 

Also it is a nod to the lord of the rings.

That being said, our first 4e permanent character death (18th level wizard) just occurred from this rule Saturday.

In Galindors honor I will print up the fire and brimstone pdf and keep it on hand... we only played a couple hours this weekend, and the fight started later on, so the battle was paused just as this event happened (round 4), could easily be the first of several character deaths.


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Feb 16, 2010)

Here's a similr thread from a way back http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/251559-lava.html#post4690992

I know that in the Chromatic Dragon book there is an epic level encounter verus an ancient red dragon in the blast cone of a volcano - falling into that does 20d6 damage and significant onoing damage (20?  Can't remember exactly).  For whatever that' worth.


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## Camelot (Feb 16, 2010)

The thing with 4e is that you always encounter challenges that you can overcome.  At level 1, you won't find a pit of lava that does 20d10 damage if you were to touch it because you might actually touch it.  If you're fighting around lava at level 1 where you might often end up in the lava, it would probably only do 2d6 + 3 or something.

However, that doesn't mean that sometimes lava is more harmful than other times.  It could be taken as a metaphor somehow, in which your character is always affected equally by environments (lava always does about 1/3 of your hp damage), but you get stronger than some monsters and try to reach the strength level of other monsters (don't ask me to explain this metaphor, I really don't know what I'm talking about here).  But rather (now I do know what I'm talking about) it should be that at level 1, you don't come across something so deadly as pools of lava.  You come across smoldering embers maybe, but the lava is reserved for paragon and then the antimatter shows up in epic tier.

So, to answer your question, the lava does however much damage it needs to do.  There should not be one set number for all lava everywhere.


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## Jhaelen (Feb 17, 2010)

Camelot said:


> The thing with 4e is that you always encounter challenges that you can overcome.



I beg to differ. This is a matter of playstyle. 

I think it's entirely reasonable (and even important!) to create overpowering encounters from time to time. The important thing is to make it evident that the encounters are too tough for the pcs (yet), i.e. give them opportunities to get away, circumvent the encounters, or survive them with clever roleplaying.


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## DracoSuave (Feb 17, 2010)

Jhaelen said:


> I beg to differ. This is a matter of playstyle.
> 
> I think it's entirely reasonable (and even important!) to create overpowering encounters from time to time. The important thing is to make it evident that the encounters are too tough for the pcs (yet), i.e. give them opportunities to get away, circumvent the encounters, or survive them with clever roleplaying.




If the encounter's goal is to run away, circumvent, or evade the challenge, then the challenge itself is not the encounter, but the running away, circumvention, what have you, -that- is the encounter, and -that- has to be within the players' means to accomplish.

The poster you responded to still made a true statement.


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## unan oranis (Feb 17, 2010)

Camelot said:


> The thing with 4e is that you always encounter challenges that you can overcome.  At level 1, you won't find a pit of lava that does 20d10 damage if you were to touch it because you might actually touch it. If you're fighting around lava at level 1 where you might often end up in the lava, it would probably only do 2d6 + 3 or something.




I double-beg to differ.  You are saying that it is impossible to throw yourself off of a 100 ft cliff at 1st level, or to find one, or to expect anything resembling a hazard as deadly as lava in a "4e balanced" campaign.

from the dmg, pg.56

"Building an encounter is a matter of choosing threats
appropriate to the characters and combining them
in interesting and challenging ways."

"Encounter-building is a mixture of art and science"


I just played a 1st level session whose very first encounter (the start of the game) was being in a chamber with an insta-kill lava flow, dealing 5 damage a round for being in the same room as it.

The challenge was to get out of the room, which was also full of golden (but very hot) treasure, worth the next 7 levels of treasure parcels.

The players got out, one almost died from messing around with the lava, and they failed to collect even 1 gold piece.

This encounter allowed for the pc's to possibly "break" the treasure rules, "break" the no instant death design and remain a reasonable, perfectly survivable, exciting and relatively balanced challenge.

Nowhere in the dmg does it say that you may not, or should not, include elements that make it possible for a character to commit suicide.


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## Jhaelen (Feb 17, 2010)

DracoSuave said:


> The poster you responded to still made a true statement.



Okay, you're correct regarding the sentence I quoted. 

I'll just disagree with the second sentence then: First level characters _can_ find a lava-filled pit doing 20d6 damage.

If the players think their pcs can safely jump down every pit because their pcs are only first level, they should be prepared for some learning experience.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Feb 17, 2010)

Jhaelen said:


> Okay, you're correct regarding the sentence I quoted.
> 
> I'll just disagree with the second sentence then: First level characters _can_ find a lava-filled pit doing 20d6 damage.
> 
> If the players think their pcs can safely jump down every pit because their pcs are only first level, they should be prepared for some learning experience.



And not in the "wohoo, enough XP for another level" type of learning experience.


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