# Lot's of General in General



## Michael Morris (Mar 1, 2005)

I know we're all still getting used to categories, but I've noticed a lot of threads using "General" as their category in the general forum.  Now, I'm inclined to think it's because there aren't enough categories, or not enough of the right categories.  So can anyone come up with additional categories for General?


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## cybertalus (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm snowed out of work today and bored, so I went through the first three pages of General Discussion and came up with categories/descriptions for threads which were tagged General.

Recommend Product / Help Me Decide Which Product to Buy
Player / Character Conflict Advice
Miscategorized
Hard to Categorize (General is probably the correct category for these)
GM Day
OGL/OGC Questions
Would this type of product sell/appeal to you?
Buying habits
Gaming Tools/Accessories: Computers, etc.
Sheets/Forms
Player Behavior: Use/Abuse/Overuse of Rules
Game Design Philosophy
Product Discussion
D&D / d20 on the Net
Crossing D&D with other games
Character creation / development
DM Behavior: Campaign Restarts
Campaigns
History
Character archetype in a setting it doesn't traditionally appear in
Encounters
Gaming setup
Ceramic DM
Monsters
Background/in-game music
Gamer Behavior
Retailers
Contests / Giveaways
Dice

Obviously some of these are too long to be used as category names, but I couldn't think of a shorter way to express what the thread was about.


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## Morrus (Mar 1, 2005)

Well, we don't want so many that there are as many categories as thread titles on a given page. At that point, the category is redundant.


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## the Jester (Mar 1, 2005)

How about:

Campaigns
Characters
Players
My Group
My DM


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## der_kluge (Mar 1, 2005)

Is there a plots & places category?


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## barsoomcore (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm still trying to figure out how these tags are useful. I mean, it's the General forum, right? Shouldn't we expect a lot of General posts there?


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## Darkness (Mar 1, 2005)

I'd suggest the following:

General
Colonel
Major
Captain

Maybe a few more.


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## cybertalus (Mar 1, 2005)

barsoomcore said:
			
		

> I'm still trying to figure out how these tags are useful. I mean, it's the General forum, right? Shouldn't we expect a lot of General posts there?



For me they're a time-saver.  I spend most of my work day driving, so surfing ENWorld isn't really possible.  As a result when I check the boards at home after work it usually takes me from 45 to 90 minutes to get through the boards.  The topic tags make it easier for me to avoid threads which don't interest me, thus cutting down the time it takes to get through the boards.

From my perspective the more tags and the more specific they are the better.  In fact if I could Ignore threads with certain tags that'd be awesome.


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## Knight Otu (Mar 1, 2005)

I admit I've not checked which threads most of these description refer to, but in the interest of avoiding too narrow categories, I'd suggest:


			
				cybertalus said:
			
		

> Recommend Product / Help Me Decide Which Product to Buy
> Would this type of product sell/appeal to you?
> Product Discussion



These three could be named Product Discussion


> Player / Character Conflict Advice
> Player Behavior: Use/Abuse/Overuse of Rules
> DM Behavior: Campaign Restarts
> Gamer Behavior



Group Dynamics?



> Buying habits
> GM Day
> D&D / d20 on the Net



These might stay in General



> OGL/OGC Questions
> Game Design Philosophy



Design?



> Gaming Tools/Accessories: Computers, etc.
> Sheets/Forms
> Dice
> Gaming setup
> Background/in-game music



Gaming Tools



> Character creation / development



Characters?



> Campaigns
> Character archetype in a setting it doesn't traditionally appear in
> Crossing D&D with other games



Could possibly use the Settings category.



> History



Either Setting, or General (for Alsih2o's threads)



> Encounters
> Monsters



Might possibly use the Adventures category



> Ceramic DM
> Contests / Giveaways



Contests?
(Yeah, ok, Ceramic DM is a bit different)

Retailers


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## barsoomcore (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm confused. What's the difference between being able to filter a board based on topic setting and having multiple boards with separate topics? Aren't those the same thing? If we're getting so much traffic on General that we need to start divvying it up by topic, why aren't we just creating new boards for those topics?

Alternatively, why don't we just have one board and topics for all threads?

Can somebody explain the probably very obvious thing I'm missing?


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## Michael Morris (Mar 2, 2005)

Visibility is the primary difference.  Some categories would get posts so rarely that few of the threads would be read because few people would visit their categories. Plot's and Places had their own forum and this is exactly what happened to them.

Categories can also appear in multiple forums - and it's possible to find threads of a certain category regardless of their forum. This gives thread searching an extra dimension to help find topics of interest that could never be accomplished with forum divisions alone.


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## Greylock (Mar 2, 2005)

cybertalus said:
			
		

> The topic tags make it easier for me to avoid threads which don't interest me, thus cutting down the time it takes to get through the boards.




That is not acceptable. You must read everything, just like the rest of us do. No picking and choosing. Simply not permitted. You must call in to work, take sick days, vacation, whatever,  just catch up. Jeepers, the Fight Club and Story Hours will put you on the unemployment rolls...


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## Morrus (Mar 2, 2005)

What I'm trying to avoid is overlap in the categories.   For example, I see that at present we have both "Settings" and "Places". The new user coming along is going to look at those two options and say "Huh?  Ah well, I'll just pick one of them.  They both mean pretty much the same thing."  Even if - arguably - one were to claim that there is a distinction between the two, if the distinction is not obvious to everyone immediately, there's a problem.


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## Staffan (Mar 2, 2005)

I see a pretty big distinction between "settings" and "places", though it could be made clearer by changing the former to "campaign settings". I guess you could also change the latter to "locations". Basically, what I'm getting at is that "places" would deal with small locations, like a city or a dungeon or something, while "settings" would be more along the lines of Forgotten Realms or Dark Sun - product lines.


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## Morrus (Mar 2, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> I see a pretty big distinction between "settings" and "places", though it could be made clearer by changing the former to "campaign settings". I guess you could also change the latter to "locations". Basically, what I'm getting at is that "places" would deal with small locations, like a city or a dungeon or something, while "settings" would be more along the lines of Forgotten Realms or Dark Sun - product lines.




Yes, but how is everyone else supposed to divine such an arcane distinction?  Heck, I just used "Places" for my "Who's From The UK?" thread.


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## Michael Morris (Mar 2, 2005)

I could drop the font size of the category names to allow for longer titles.  I can also set a max column width of 20% so that they don't take up to much space.

I can also see about adding a way to display category descriptions on mouseover - sort of a hack of a hack.


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## barsoomcore (Mar 2, 2005)

Thanks, Michael -- if they go across boards then that's kind of cool.

I've spent most of my professional career managing bug tracking systems and the biggest headache you ever face (besides trying to get Windows to do anything useful ) is categories.

Defining them so they mean the same thing to everyone is as far as I know, pretty much impossible. SOMEBODY has to sit on top of new items and make sure they're going into the right categories, cause people just won't do it. They'll either misunderstand what the category definition includes, or they just flat out won't bother to pick an appropriate one. Eventually, chaos ensues unless you have someone combing through them and assigning them appropriately.

I honestly think they're more trouble than they're worth. 

But so far they're not having much affect on me. It would be great to be able to hide that column, however.


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## BSF (Mar 2, 2005)

I have a personal, hosted forum here for my game.  I had already designated thread tags to be used for certain types of threads.  With the categories, I can do away with that.  I have threads for each PC that covers "Characterization, Advancement and Goals."  These threads are there to provide an outlet for the players to communicate PC quirks, ways that they want to advance (non-mechanicall) and what goals they have set.  Now I have a CAG category.  

I also have a Scheduling category, an RP category, a Logs category and a pure Metagame category.  These will work well for my small group.  

In the larger context of EN World, being able to sort based on categories within a forum could be very helpful.  Ceramic DM/Iron DM are significantly different than advice on a problem Player.  Alsih2o's History in Your Game might be similar or complementary to creating a homebrew campaign, but it is different from asking about which minis and battlemat type products will suit your gaming environment best.  But all of these definitely still belong in the General Discussion forum.  So I can see some value to the categories.  Especially for the folks looking to address a current need.  

For those of us that try to browse every thread to snarf anything useful from it, then the categories might not be as valuable, right now.  But you never know when you will want to use them for a search parameter, or a sort mechanism.

But Barsoomcore does bring up a good point about defining each category.  They need to be well enough described that most people will agree on their application.  Though adding in a sticky thread or something with generally accepted definitions would be helpful.


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## Truth Seeker (Mar 2, 2005)

I have the *Genera*l stuck in the SCi Fic page, and no other selection..

For consideration, new catergories: Rumor Mill, Video Games*replacing Tech*, B.Galatica*Not there*, Blue Smurf Special ...just a few ideas.


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## Squirrel Nutkin (Mar 2, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Now, I'm inclined to think it's because there aren't enough categories, or not enough of the right categories.



I suspect if I showed you glass of water that was half empty, you'd say it was half full.  

Seriously the only board I've seen where people actually use thread tags properly is Something Awful. I tried getting the Nutkinlanders to use them back when we had vBulletin so that we wouldn't need as many forums but it was no good, most of the time people couldn't be bothered.


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## Michael Morris (Mar 2, 2005)

One thing I'm considering adding to this feature is some "virtual forums"  These forums will work by finding threads based on category instead of by forum.  If you try to start a thread in a virtual forum you'll be prompted to specify which real forum you want the post to be placed in.


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## Jdvn1 (Mar 2, 2005)

Hm, cool idea.

I like the categories so far.


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## the Jester (Mar 2, 2005)

I like the 'virtual forum' idea- that's cool.  

The ability to sort threads by category would be a cool thing too.


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## barsoomcore (Mar 2, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> One thing I'm considering adding to this feature is some "virtual forums"  These forums will work by finding threads based on category instead of by forum.  If you try to start a thread in a virtual forum you'll be prompted to specify which real forum you want the post to be placed in.



No, no. What you do is allow users to create their own virtual forums by selecting categories they want to view across ALL forums.

So I can select, say, "Minis", "Movies", and "GenCon" and my personal forum shows me all threads on all forums with those categories. I can still go browse the standard forums to see what else I'm missing, but for the most part I've got a neat custom forum that shows me everything I'm interested in.

Now THAT'S cool.

For it to really work, though, a thread needs to be able to have multiple categories. Cause a thread about "At GenCon I'm showing my movie I made by animating my miniatures" could reasonably belong in ANY of those categories...


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## Gnome (Mar 4, 2005)

I would rename the "General" category to "Other".  I think "General" implies that it could be about anything, whereas "Other" implies something that's not on the existing list.  Just MHO.


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## Michael Morris (Mar 4, 2005)

the Jester said:
			
		

> I like the 'virtual forum' idea- that's cool.
> 
> The ability to sort threads by category would be a cool thing too.




You already can do that.  Go to the bottom and select categories from the sorting options.


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## andargor (Mar 4, 2005)

Gnome said:
			
		

> I would rename the "General" category to "Other".  I think "General" implies that it could be about anything, whereas "Other" implies something that's not on the existing list.  Just MHO.




I second that. I was going to suggest eliminating General completely, but with Other you can at least put it at the end of the list and it dissuades people from being too lazy and shoving everything in General.

Andargor


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## Gez (Mar 4, 2005)

When I started my "horror stories" thread, I looked for a Trade or Consummerism or Buying or Market or whatever similarly-themed category, didn't found one, and took General.


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## Darkness (Mar 4, 2005)

andargor said:
			
		

> I second that. I was going to suggest eliminating General completely, but with Other you can at least put it at the end of the list and it dissuades people from being too lazy and shoving everything in General.



Interesting point.


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## Squirrel Nutkin (Mar 4, 2005)

Darkness said:
			
		

> Interesting point.



Darkness oughta remember that this became such an epidemic on my board last year that I solved it by making two changes:

1) Changing General Discussion's name to "Everything Else"
2) Moving it to the bottom instead of having it on the top


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## Endur (Mar 5, 2005)

*Forced to General*

Just in case you didn't know, when I edit post one in a thread in the play by post forums, it makes me pick a category and the only available category is "general."


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## Buttercup (Mar 6, 2005)

barsoomcore said:
			
		

> I honestly think they're more trouble than they're worth.




This is my feeling too.

I'm a librarian.  I've been trained to put information into categories, and to teach others to do it.  But if you don't have a controlled vocabulary with a thesaurus to tell you that, say, *Places* means "the town I just created" rather than "who's from the UK" then the catagories are useless. 

It's a nice thought, but I don't think it's going to work.  Also, the "feature" is going to irritate a certain group of people, and they'll just use General every time as a means of civil disobedience.  Unless you're going to ban everyone who doesn't choose the correct category (and we've already seen that we can't agree on the definition of correct) you won't be able to enforce the use of these.


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