# Good Rogue Prestige Classes?



## Darkness8Me (Feb 23, 2002)

I'm currently playing a low level rogue (human) and I was looking for a prestige class to shoot for.  Maybe I'm blind, but is there a shortage of good prestige classes for rogues?  I found most of the ones listed in S&S to be boring or underpowered.

All that I've been able to find so far is:

DMG:  Assassin (requires an evil alignment, which usually isn't allowed).
DMG:  Shadowdancer (neat concept)
S&F:  Duelist (kinda).
S&F:  Ninja of the Crescent Moon (thank god for errata).
S&S:  Thief-Acrobat (seems underpowered).
OA:  Ninja Spy (probably the best one I've found).

Any help or suggestions out there?


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## Mark (Feb 23, 2002)

How ya doin' dere, Chicago? 

I'm not sure where you're going with this, since I see a lot of the S&S ones as _not_ boring.  It's a mattter of taste, for sure.

Maybe the best bet is to describe your campaign a little, describe what you want to do with the character, and then I'll see if I can come up with something.  Looks like you have a dark concept for the character but how does that fit with the other players/characters in the game?

Also, post what you've taken so far Skills (include the ranks) and Feats, so everyone knows what you've got.  People can then post a progression of what you should be taking to get on track for whatever prestige class they suggest.

BTW I'm up near the LP Zoo, whereabouts are you?


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## Lunn (Feb 23, 2002)

It all depends on how your DM sets up his campaign.  Depending on where his campaign takes place, some rogue Prc are better than others.  Remember, a Prestige class does not make a PC better over all.  Rather, he begins to specilize.  

If the DMs campaign is going to take place in a Thief-Acrobat or the Roofrunner (from Trap & Treachery by Fantasy Flight Games) are good choices.  But the Dungeon Delver wouldn't work so well.

If you just want to make a better Rogue, just stay a Rogue.

By the way, what is wrong with the other Rogue Prc from S&S: the Dungeon Delver, Outlaw of the Crimson Road, Royal Explorer, Spymaster all seem fairly nice choices?


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## BlindKobold (Feb 23, 2002)

Don't overlook Guild Thief from Forgotten Realms.  With 2 free feats, regular sneak attack and uncanny dodge progression AND a couple of other nice perks... it's a no lose prestige class.

1st - +1d6 sneak attack, Double Speak (+2 bluff, innuend & diplomacy checks)
2nd - Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge
3rd - +2d6 sneak attack
4th - Bonus Feat
5th - +3d6 sneak attack, Uncanny Dodge (Can't be flanked)


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## Darkness (Feb 23, 2002)

*Darkness8Me*



> *Darkness8Me*


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## Darkness8Me (Feb 24, 2002)

Mark said:
			
		

> *Maybe the best bet is to describe your campaign a little, describe what you want to do with the character, and then I'll see if I can come up with something.  Looks like you have a dark concept for the character but how does that fit with the other players/characters in the game?
> 
> Also, post what you've taken so far Skills (include the ranks) and Feats, so everyone knows what you've got.  People can then post a progression of what you should be taking to get on track for whatever prestige class they suggest.*



Since I started about a month ago the game has been mostly a dungeon crawl.  The somewhat odd party makeup is:

Human Cleric 5 (of Heironeous)
Human Ranger 5
Elven Ranger 3 / Druid 2
Gnome Rogue 2 / Cleric 3 (of Garl Glittergold, might be 1/4)
Halfling Sorcerer 5

My character is role-played as an over-exaggerating, somewhat reckless, and not quite brave swashbuckler-type.  When no one is looking he your typical sneaky bastard, but he does not steal.  He's not exactly a good guy, but he does have his own code of "honor".  In combat he uses stealth, surprise, and acrobatics since he’s fairly useless unless he can sneak attack.

Human Rogue 4 (with enough exp. for 5th)
Abilities:  Str 10, Con 11 (12 @ 4th), Dex 15, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 14.
Feats:  Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Weapon Finesse (rapier).
Skills with 7 (max) ranks:  Disable Device, Listen, Open Lock, Search, Spot.
Skills with 6 ranks:  Hide, Move Silently, Tumble
Skills with 5 ranks:  Bluff, Sense Motive.
Skills with 2 ranks:  Balance, Climb, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Innuendo, Jump, Knowledge (nobility), Perform (dance, sing), Pick pocket, Use Magic Device.

Right now I’m playing catch-up since I spread out my initial skills so much, next level he’ll look something like this:
Skills with 8 (max) ranks:  Disable Device, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Tumble.
Skills with 7 ranks:  Bluff
Skills with 5 ranks:  Sense Motive
Skills with 2 ranks:  Same as above.




			
				Lunn said:
			
		

> *By the way, what is wrong with the other Rogue Prc from S&S: the Dungeon Delver, Outlaw of the Crimson Road, Royal Explorer, Spymaster all seem fairly nice choices?*



My opinion only, but this is what I see when I look at those classes:

*Dungeon Delver* – A fairly nice PrC that definitely has unique abilities.  However, while the skill / feat requirements aren’t too rough (though I hate taking Alertness), the “special” requirement(s) might be hard to do in game.
*Outlaw of the Crimson Road* – Just don’t like it, though it’s more a personal opinion rather than anything rule-based.  I’m just not a big fan of leadership based classes.  Also, what’s up with their crappy version of sneak attack? 
*Royal Explorer* – I consider this class to be severely underpowered when compared to the rogue.  The reduction to 6 skill points basically cancels the benefit of the “Explorer check” (though you would be better a certain skills than otherwise possible).  I really don’t think the rest of the class makes up for 5d6 sneak attack and 3 chosen rogue special abilities.
*Spymaster* – To me, this looks more like an NPC class.  If I was playing a heavy RP campaign, there’s a slim chance I’d  take it.  I’m also really annoyed with the “Required ranks” ability and the fact all of the required skills (Craft, Knowledge, and Profession) are cross-class skills.  A plain old rogue gets two of the three, and he’s not required to take them.
*Thief Acrobat* – Some of the abilities look like fun, and cartwheel charge looks pretty powerful.  However, I’m not sure that it’s an even trade (less skill points, skill selection, and sneak attack damage; predetermined special abilities).  BTW, why doesn’t their “Move anywhere” ability just allow them to take 10 anytime like Skill mastery?  Why the “except when engaged in melee combat” limitation?




			
				BlindKobold said:
			
		

> *Don't overlook Guild Thief from Forgotten Realms. With 2 free feats, regular sneak attack and uncanny dodge progression AND a couple of other nice perks... it's a no lose prestige class. *



Thanks for the tip, I did completely missed this one and it's pretty snazzy.  Not sure if it fits my character though (being a guild thief).




			
				Mark said:
			
		

> *BTW I'm up near the LP Zoo, whereabouts are you?*



I'm actually NW suburbs (Hanover Park, near Schaumburg).  Easier to just say Chicago.


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## Gaiden (Feb 24, 2002)

IMHO some of the best PCs for rogue are crossclassed - soul knife and arcane trickster.


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## EOL (Feb 24, 2002)

Gaiden said:
			
		

> *IMHO some of the best PCs for rogue are crossclassed - soul knife and arcane trickster. *



That's a whole heap of Psion or Mage/Sorcerer levels for him to take before he'd be able play either.  But I do have to agree that with the right choices a Savant/Soul Knife makes an excellent rogue-type.


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## Mark (Feb 24, 2002)

It looks like you've gone through them and figured out what is possible without too much building beyond what you now have.



			
				Darkness8Me said:
			
		

> *DMG:  Assassin (requires an evil alignment, which usually isn't allowed).*




That evil thing is kinda of a deal breaker especially with a Cleric of Heronious in the group.



			
				Darkness8Me said:
			
		

> *DMG:  Shadowdancer (neat concept)*




With you current thinking (somewhat cowardly, not really a thief), this is the one I would suggest.  You need to get the Hide and Move Silently Skills up to 8 ranks and Perform up to 5 ranks.  Pick up the Mobility Feat and you're all set.  Take a closer look at the Class Features for the Shadowdancer, but it sounds like a pretty good match for you.



			
				Darkness8Me said:
			
		

> *S&F:  Duelist (kinda).*




The reluctant duelist, who spouts off and gets himself into trouble only to regret his brashness later might be fun.  You'd need to pick up both Mobility and Ambidexterity, so you might not want to wait that long.  If you do, your BaB should be plenty by then but bring your Perform Skill up one rank in the meantime.



			
				Darkness8Me said:
			
		

> *S&F:  Ninja of the Crescent Moon (thank god for errata).*




I think the Shadowdancer has better possiblities than this Prestige Class.  You'd have to get too many Feats before you could switch and unless your DM is building this whole concept into the campaign already, it might be too much to ask the DM to do...especially if they already have other plans and games set up for your group.



			
				Darkness8Me said:
			
		

> *S&S:  Thief-Acrobat (seems underpowered).*




I suppose but if you want to stay away from the whole "Rogue as Thief" idea, this one isn't going to help.  Are you a member of the Thieves Guild as the class _says_ is required?   You'd have to bring Balance, Climb, and Jump Skills all up to 8 ranks.



			
				Darkness8Me said:
			
		

> *OA:  Ninja Spy (probably the best one I've found). *




Sounds like this is the one you want, so why not go for it?  Again, I caution the possibility that it might not fit in with your DM's setting concept, but it can't hurt to ask! 

I dont use FR stuff, so I can't comment on the other... 



			
				Darkness8Me said:
			
		

> *I'm actually NW suburbs (Hanover Park, near Schaumburg).  Easier to just say Chicago. *




We'll be getting another Gameday (like the EN Boards Chicago one we did in January) together in Mount Prospect for June sometime.  Check the events section of my message boards (use the link in my sig, then click on the globe) for details as they unfold.  

Hope that all helps!


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## Charles Ryan Leek (Feb 6, 2017)

has any one ever seen the footman prestige class? i cant find the rules for it anywhere?  
its a small character class gnome /halfling


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## TBeholder (Feb 25, 2017)

Charles Ryan Leek said:


> has any one ever seen the footman prestige class? i cant find the rules for it anywhere?
> its a small character class gnome /halfling



 Not on the official list. Thus probably Dragon or 3rd party. Or even Pathfinder.


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## Becky Sagel (Jul 7, 2021)

Darkness8Me said:


> I'm currently playing a low level rogue (human) and I was looking for a prestige class to shoot for.  Maybe I'm blind, but is there a shortage of good prestige classes for rogues?  I found most of the ones listed in S&S to be boring or underpowered.
> 
> All that I've been able to find so far is:
> 
> DMG:  Assassin (requires an evil alignment, which usually isn't allowed).



Doible check with your DM. You might be able to slide with a less than "evil" alignment. Mine let me play chaotic evil because I refused to kill children, thus my "code of honor" let me not be strickly evil.


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## Ancalagon (Jul 7, 2021)

Becky Sagel said:


> Doible check with your DM. You might be able to slide with a less than "evil" alignment. Mine let me play chaotic evil because I refused to kill children, thus my "code of honor" let me not be strickly evil.



why are you replying to a thread from 2002.  Is this thread necromancy "not strickly evil?"   

(welcome aboard!   )


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