# Modern Character Optimization



## roguerouge (Jul 3, 2008)

Is there a thread here or a board on WotC that is on optimizing d20 Modern characters?


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## Nadaka (Jul 3, 2008)

roguerouge said:


> Is there a thread here or a board on WotC that is on optimizing d20 Modern characters?




yes, you are in it. as for WotC, all d20 modern boards have been deleted. There is still a D20 general forum and I think they still have an optimization forum, but that caters mostly to D&D.


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## roguerouge (Jul 3, 2008)

Ooookaaay... That was an annoying decision on their part.

So. How balanced are the base classes? Are there particularly desirable mixtures of them? How about these advanced classes? 

And does physical melee frequently occur or is ranged weapons the way to go when it comes to the modern game?


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## Nadaka (Jul 3, 2008)

For basic classes? the fast hero has too high a defense bonus at level 1, making it ideal for dipping. Other than that they are quite balanced. For advanced classes, I would note that the setting specific supernatural classes tend to be quite a bit stronger and more flexible than standard advanced classes. However, this can be partially mitigated by access to military grade equipment for your more mundane characters.

The prevelance of melee depends on the campaign setting and decisions of the players. A swashbuckling pirates game will have more melee. Melee can be very strong, but that mostly balances out with ranged combat if you have some encounters happen at long and medium ranges.


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## Stormborn (Jul 3, 2008)

roguerouge said:


> Ooookaaay... That was an annoying decision on their part.
> 
> So. How balanced are the base classes? Are there particularly desirable mixtures of them? How about these advanced classes?
> 
> And does physical melee frequently occur or is ranged weapons the way to go when it comes to the modern game?





Unfortunately the answer is: it depends.  Modern games come in far more variety than fantasy games.  Choices about setting, FX, style, etc all come into play.  I have run a fairly Pulp d20 Modern game where combat in one form or another was as common as it is in DnD and the PCs used a range of effects including martial arts, guns, and magic.  I have also run a d20 Modern game that was all investigation and depended entirely on non-combat encounters.  

If you tell us what kind of game you will be playing in then we might be able to help.  The only general piece of advice I can give you is plan out chracter advancement from the starting point and you will be happier.  Pick an Advanced Class you want and then work backwards on the fastest path to it. Be mindful of the classes that start with +0 BAB or you could easily wind up with a 3rd level PC with no ability in a fight at all; which, again, might not be a problem depending on your campaign.


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## roguerouge (Jul 3, 2008)

Honestly, I don't know yet what kind of campaign it's going to be. There are hints of a no-magic, no-psionics feature though. That should downplay the advantage of playing the INT or WIS, yes?


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## Nadaka (Jul 3, 2008)

roguerouge said:


> Honestly, I don't know yet what kind of campaign it's going to be. There are hints of a no-magic, no-psionics feature though. That should downplay the advantage of playing the INT or WIS, yes?




Maybe. Maybe not.

Int is incredibly valuable for skills. There are 60+ different skills in d20 modern. 

Wis will probably be reduced in importance because mundane will saves are not common, unless your GM uses 3rd party morale/horror/sanity/depravity rules.


Modern is more of a simulationist system than D&D and has a more varied context of play. This makes standard optimization less productive. What you should do is decide what kind of character you want and work from there. Do you want to be a shooter? a smasher? an investigator? a frontman? a sneak? something else?


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## Stormborn (Jul 3, 2008)

roguerouge said:


> Honestly, I don't know yet what kind of campaign it's going to be. There are hints of a no-magic, no-psionics feature though. That should downplay the advantage of playing the INT or WIS, yes?





Not if the campaign needs a hacker, a linguist, an investigator, a scientists, a reseracher, a doctor/medic, demolitions expert, intelligent leader/planner, or any kind of Daniel Jackson/Reed Richards/ Spock character.  So no, can't discount either Smart or Dedicated classes yet.


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## roguerouge (Jul 3, 2008)

Stormborn said:


> Be mindful of the classes that start with +0 BAB or you could easily wind up with a 3rd level PC with no ability in a fight at all; which, again, might not be a problem depending on your campaign.




All but the Strong hero start with +0 BAB. Are you saying that if you start with a particular class, you should stick with it for a while and delay dipping into another +0 class?


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jul 3, 2008)

It makes sense to multiclass, from my experience. You will have to after 10th level, anyway, but you can make more interesting characters that way, too.

If you play a Smart/Strong character, you have a lot of skill points (though you have to pick which ones you want to specialize on), and are still a decent fighter. Of course, for pure melee combat optimisation, Strong with maybe a dip in Fast is probably better.

A mix of Strong/Tough will give you good defensive and offensive abilities in combat. 

Generally, for anything that is to fight a lot, Strong is an important class - BAB is very important, and the Strong Hero is the only base class with a full BAB. 
Fast/Strong is a good way to make a gunslinger (and eventually Gunslinger). 

Smart/Charismatic will make you a Jack of all Trades (including the possiblity that you will be master of nothing, so be careful). 

Careful multiclassing is also important. If you want to multiclass, it's probably best to pick the class with the most skill points first. 
In any non-full BAB class, you should try to get to 4 levels as soon as possible, and not mix to early, since your BAB will suffer. 

Starting Occupations can be cruical to get you enough feats to be proficient in the weapons you want, especially if you're going for ranged combats. 

Per default, d20 Modern has less or no magic then D&D. This also means that AC, BAB and other modifiers keep in a "fair" ballpark, so even a Smart Hero can contribute well in combat  - out of combat, he will rock during research and "thievery".


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## JoelF (Jul 3, 2008)

As for melee/ranged, a lot also depends on if the PCs are "regular people" or police/military/spies/mercenaries, etc.  If they're regular people, then melee will come up a lot more often, both because they simply won't have the firearms as often, and they'll be looking to avoid repercussions of firing guns and getting the cops involved, as well as avoiding killing people.

However, I played a D20 Modern game based on a zombie plague, and while we all started as "regular people" we quickly acquired guns and other more deadly weapons, but still had a LOT of melee, since guns and ammo weren't easy to find.  I eventually made a new character who joined the group after my first one left, and he was a soldier cut off from his base, and was Strong 3/soldier build, specializing with an M16, and he was very effective in combat.  I wouldn't play him though in a game where the modern world hadn't fallen apart.

Also, don't neglect your WIS based characters for EMTs/doctors, etc.  Throw in a level of strong or tough if you want to be more like Jack from Lost.


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## Stormborn (Jul 3, 2008)

roguerouge said:


> All but the Strong hero start with +0 BAB. Are you saying that if you start with a particular class, you should stick with it for a while and delay dipping into another +0 class?




Mustrum pretty much answered that question.  If you plan on being in combat you need to make sure you get at least to 3rd or 4th before you dip.  In all honesty, w/o making some houserules, I have found that its best to start d20 M at at least 3rd if not 5th, but thats up to the GM not the players.


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