# Rate Kill Bill



## Kai Lord (Oct 16, 2003)

A while back someone posted the results of all the movie polls over the summer, and IIRC X2 had the highest rating.  Judging from the posts in the other thread, it appears Kill Bill was won the hearts of even more ENWorlders.  So let's have a count...

I give it a 3, but I'll be surprised if even two other people rate it lower than an 8.


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## uv23 (Oct 16, 2003)

I gave it a 2. More of a 1.5 really


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## Kai Lord (Oct 16, 2003)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> I give it a 3, but I'll be surprised if even two other people rate it lower than an 8.



Well okay then, I'm officially surprised.


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## DanMcS (Oct 16, 2003)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Well okay then, I'm officially surprised.




I thought it was better than average, but not great.  Fun to watch.  I probably would have given it an 8, but it got a 7 just to spite you


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## WayneLigon (Oct 16, 2003)

8, just because X2 and LOTR score better  I liked it a great deal.


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## KChagga (Oct 16, 2003)

An 8
It was definately an experience.


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## barsoomcore (Oct 16, 2003)

I gave it a 9. It can't get a 10 because it's not finished, but I'll revisit my ranking after Volume 2 comes out. It was darn near perfect, though.


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## Felix (Oct 17, 2003)

Aye. Barsoomcore and I are on the same page with this movie it seems. A "9 waiting with baited breath".


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## Darrin Drader (Oct 17, 2003)

I gave it a 3.

Because I don't want to pay twice for one movie and because without seeing it, I trust KLs opinion.


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## Oni (Oct 17, 2003)

Baraendur said:
			
		

> I gave it a 3.
> 
> Because I don't want to pay twice for one movie and because without seeing it, I trust KLs opinion.


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## Darrin Drader (Oct 17, 2003)

Oni said:
			
		

>





.


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## Kai Lord (Oct 17, 2003)

Baraendur said:
			
		

> I gave it a 3.
> 
> Because I don't want to pay twice for one movie and because without seeing it, I trust KLs opinion.



Well when you rent it have someone watch it in the next room and give a holler when a character named "Gogo" makes an appearance.  Start watching then and you'll give the movie a 10/10.  I guarantee it.   

Everthing up to then save for a clever opening quote and title sequence was the cinematic equivalent of a stale belch, with a couple of wet chunks thrown in just to provoke that ever enjoyable gag reflex.

I mean, how can you not love a movie where the main character utters the phrase, "Lucky for her, he was also a pedophile..."


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## Darrin Drader (Oct 17, 2003)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Well when you rent it have someone watch it in the next room and give a holler when a character named "Gogo" makes an appearance.




The flip side is that I probably won't rent it. I'll wait for the 2 DVD set that includes both movies and then just buy it.


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## jdavis (Oct 17, 2003)

I gave it a nine out of 10. It's not quite top ten of all time material but I might just make a personal top 20 list. I could really care less about it being split into two, that means nothing to me I give it a 9 on it's own merit, if the world ends or volume 2 is destroyed in a volcano then I would still give volume 1 a 9 out of 10 and call it the movie of the year so far (granted Return of the King is just around the corner  )

I'd give Cabin Fever a 2 out of 10 if anyone cares to know.


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## Darrin Drader (Oct 17, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> I'd give Cabin Fever a 2 out of 10 if anyone cares to know.




I've heard some pretty horrendous things about Cabin Fever and House of the Dead.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 17, 2003)

Gave it an 8, I liked it, thought the image it presented was fantastic.  Not a 9 or a 10 because of two reasons, one; not finished and two; it was just an amine when all said and done, not that is a bad thing, just that it is a recreation from a images you find in that media.


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## Krug (Oct 17, 2003)

gave it a 7. beautiful scenes, with the gore being part of the aesthetics, but quite empty.


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## Pielorinho (Oct 17, 2003)

Someone else rated it a one and a five on a scale of one to five.  That's pretty close to my feelings:  I found it both brilliant and gutchurning, and both were due to the exact same parts of the movie.  Yet the gut-churning wasn't spiritually or aesthetically or morally redemptive in any sense:  it was violence for the purest sake of entertainment.

Anyway, in your poll I gave it a 5/10, to represent both the low and high scores I want to give it simultaneously.

Daniel


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## Endur (Oct 17, 2003)

I give Return of the King movie of the year just based on the Spoiler.  The spoiler for ROTK blows away every movie I've seen this year.

Now, having said that, I rated "Kill Bill" a 9.  X2 was ok, but not fantastic; I'd rate it at a 7 or 8.  I'd give Matrix 2 an 8 or 9.  The Hulk gets an 8 because they toned down some of the violence (i.e. making sure that the Hulk didn't kill anyone even when he threw a tank a quarter mile away).  I give T-3 a 9 because of the ending; it was definitely the best of the Terminator series.


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## Desdichado (Oct 17, 2003)

I gave it a three.  This was nothing more than an anime movie except with real actors and a cheesy spaghetti western soundtrack.  Hardly innovative or unique.

I disliked it for the same reason I dislike most anime I've seen; toilet paper thin plot, wooden characters, bad scripting and dialogue and more about an esoteric style that requires you to be a Japanophile anime fanboy to really appreciate.


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## DanMcS (Oct 17, 2003)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I disliked it for the same reason I dislike most anime I've seen; toilet paper thin plot, wooden characters, bad scripting and dialogue and more about an esoteric style that requires you to be a Japanophile anime fanboy to really appreciate.




Did you just come up with this sentence and think it was particularly clever?  Because you've repeated it in a couple threads now.  Though I do think there needs to be a more handy, derogatory term for anime fanboys.  "It's from Japan!  It has to be good!"  Bah.


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## Desdichado (Oct 17, 2003)

I used a very similar phrase in my other review of the movie.  Since there are two threads about the same topic and my opinion of the movie is the same in both threads...  

Anyway, my point isn't to insult anime fans, simply to point out that the style is the same as an anime movie.  I don't particularly like anime, so naturally, I didn't particularly like Kill Bill.

And I'm not sure what you mean with the "It's from Japan!  It has to be good!" sentence.  I certainly know people that say essentially that same thing an awful lot in arenas as varied as anime, video games, stereos and cars.


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## DanMcS (Oct 17, 2003)

That was meant to be mocking the fanboys.  The whole post came off as snarkier than I meant it, I was amused by seeing the same thing from you twice in short order, almost word for word.


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## Desdichado (Oct 17, 2003)

OK.  I couldn't tell for sure if you were agreeing with me, or if you _were_ an anime fanboy taking umbrage to my posts!


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## jdavis (Oct 17, 2003)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I gave it a three. This was nothing more than an anime movie except with real actors and a cheesy spaghetti western soundtrack. Hardly innovative or unique.
> 
> I disliked it for the same reason I dislike most anime I've seen; toilet paper thin plot, wooden characters, bad scripting and dialogue and more about an esoteric style that requires you to be a Japanophile anime fanboy to really appreciate.



I don't get the anime thing, even the anime in the movie didn't remind me of anime. The whole thing reminded me of the crappy 70's action flicks from Japan and Hong Kong that I grew up watching, (which is what he was trying to emulate). I find the paper thin plot and wooden characters comment funny because that's exactly how it was written to be, those were intentional throwbacks to 70's action movies, that was the whole point of the movie (I didn't see where I needed to know all that much about Japan to follow it either). Go snag any old Kung Fu movie from the 70's, they are about the same. I'm suprised he didn't intentionally throw the dub track off to make it more like those movies.


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## Welverin (Oct 17, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> I'm supprised he didn't intentionally through the dub track off to make it more like those movies.




DVD?

I've noticed in some of Jackie Chan's more recent movies that have been released over here that even when it's clear the actors were speaking English that eveything was still out of sunc.


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## barsoomcore (Oct 17, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> DVD?
> 
> I've noticed in some of Jackie Chan's more recent movies that have been released over here that even when it's clear the actors were speaking English that eveything was still out of sunc.



 That's because ALL Hong Kong movies are ALWAYS out of sync. Most HK movies are shot MOS (Mit Out Sound, meaning Without Sound) and then audio (dialog, sound effects, everything) is added later. It's immensely cheaper, especially if you don't care too much about making everything match up perfectly.

But yeah, even when they're speaking CHINESE those movies are out of sync.

Part of the fun, my friend.


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## jdavis (Oct 17, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> DVD?
> 
> I've noticed in some of Jackie Chan's more recent movies that have been released over here that even when it's clear the actors were speaking English that eveything was still out of sunc.



Man I botched that sentence pretty bad didn't I? I apologise for my poor grammer skills. 

Poor dubbing is a trademark of Hong Kong films, I expect them to not match up, if they did it would seem something was wrong.


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## ShinHakkaider (Oct 18, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> Go snag any old Kung Fu movie from the 70's, they are about the same. I'm suprised he didn't intentionally throw the dub track off to make it more like those movies.




Heh. 

It's in Vol 2 in the chapter called the Cruel Tutelege of Pai-Mei. Pai-Mei (white eyebrow)  is the old chinese chap who teaches the Bride kung Fu. He's the the one in the trailer who stands on the blade of the Bride's sword, backflips off of it and kicks her in the face. Whenever Pai Mei speaks it's in improperly dubbed english.


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## ShinHakkaider (Oct 18, 2003)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> A while back someone posted the results of all the movie polls over the summer, and IIRC X2 had the highest rating.  Judging from the posts in the other thread, it appears Kill Bill was won the hearts of even more ENWorlders.  So let's have a count...
> 
> I give it a 3, but I'll be surprised if even two other people rate it lower than an 8.




I gave it an 8. 

It was exactly what I was expecting it to be, on ode to 70's revenge films, the kind of films that I grew up watching. This movie would have gotten a higher rating but it's only half a film, but a very entertaining half.


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## Pants (Oct 18, 2003)

I give it a 9.


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## Morrus (Oct 18, 2003)

I thought it was OK, but nothing special.  Certainly not as good as Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction.  I gave it a 6 - didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would and found some of it a bit too silly for my tastes.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 18, 2003)

*Rated*

* I give a 10..a 10 I say....if it were possible I would have gave it 100...*


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## Wombat (Oct 18, 2003)

Gross and pointlessly violent.

Tarantino continues his style -- lots of flash and bang, absolutely zero substance.


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## Michael Tree (Oct 18, 2003)

I gave it a 7.  It was okay, but not nearly as good as Pulp Fiction and Resevoir Dogs.  Those had character and fantastic dialogue, and were well paced.  There were hints of this old brilliance in the Okinawa scene, the fight with the boy she spanked, and the final scene with O-Ren, but most of the rest was way too drawn out and cardboard.

In another thread someone called it the most violent anti-violence movie ever.  I don't know if that's what Tarentino intended, but it certainly ended up that way.  I was horrified by half of the violence, and for the other half of the violence I was horrified that I and others in the theatre were laughing at such brutality.

Usually after action movies I tend to have an urge to out and roleplay something similar to the movie.  After LotR I wanted to play epic fantasy.  After Pirates of the Caribbean I wanted to play swashbucling pirates.  But after Kill Bill I wanted to play something like lord of the rings, with well defined good vs. evil morality, cinematic heroic action... and lots of armor. 

_Edit: Grammar my friend is._


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## Morpheus (Oct 18, 2003)

barsoomcore said:
			
		

> I gave it a 9. It can't get a 10 because it's not finished, but I'll revisit my ranking after Volume 2 comes out. It was darn near perfect, though.




Ditto...


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## Black Omega (Oct 18, 2003)

Keeping in mind I'm an anime fanboy, I gave this around an 8.  Not the best movie I've seen but alot of cool stuff and a great homage to the old kung fu movies.

Aside from one anime sequence, nothing much to do with anime though.  except in the sense some shows in anime obviously drew inspiration from the same sources Tarentino did.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 18, 2003)

*Better film???*

*Wait, wait...so, could any of you done it better???  

Like or not...there is  a story behind all that blood and guts.

Sorry, no spoilers here.  *


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## WayneLigon (Oct 18, 2003)

As I understand things, the second part is way less violent than the first but I certainly don't see Part One as all _that_ violent. As in, violent enough to comment on how violent it is  You carry around a three-foot scalpel and things like that are going to happen. 

*checks Poll* Ah, good to see the 8/9/10's leading the pack by a long ways.


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## ShinHakkaider (Oct 19, 2003)

Morrus said:
			
		

> I thought it was OK, but nothing special.  Certainly not as good as Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction.




I see alot of people saying "not as good as Reservoir Dogs" but personally I think that RD is probably the most overrated of his films. It's decent enough, but it's not the end all be all that most people make it out to be. If the story for Kill Bill is thin and derivative then the story for RD is no less, maybe even more so. The whole crux of the movie is ripped directly from Ringo Lam's CITY ON FIRE and hiest movies gone wrong like Kubrick's THE KILLING. 

I liked KILL BILL a little less than I liked Jackie Brown (which is probably the Best of Tarintino's films in terms of craft and structure, although it does lack the puchy dialogue of Fiction and Dogs) because it lacked pretention, because it is shamelessly nothing more than a 70's martial arts/chambara/revenge movie. And it's fun. Everyone complaing about the violence in this movie, unless they honestly didint know going in and even then they had to know that there is violence in Tarantino's films (I mean really, It's like going to see Goodfellas or Casino and complaining about the violence and the appearace of mobsters in those movies. The movie is called KILL BILL, not Fluffy Bill's Petting Zoo of Looooooove.  

I think that Tarintino made this movie for people like me who smiled from ear to ear when the Shaw Bros logo popped up on the screen or when It goes to the split screen (used frequently by Brian DePalma in Carrie, Dressed to Kill and Blow Out among others) during Elle Driver's visit to the Bride's hospital room. Or when he does what I call the Kung Fu Zoom on the Brides eyes when ever she confronts one of the other Deadly Vipers and they show the flashback of her assault in faded out brown. 

I loved it because those little touches meant something to me. They refered directly to movie experiences growing up in NY and going to those ratty theaters on Times Square with the sticky floors and watching Fists of the White Lotus and Five Deadly Venoms. Even without that background I think that it still does what it's supposed to do, which is entertain. It's not supposed to be highbrow entertainment. It's a derivitive of the type of movies that highbrow and movie critics in general dont like.


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## Nightfall (Oct 19, 2003)

I liked it for many of the reasons stated here. I also think like Shin, this movie SHOULDN'T be compared to any of QT's other work. Because it's unique. It's like comparing apples and pears. I felt the whole point of this movie is that QT said "Gee I want to make a butt kicking, violent, off centered movie that might not reach EVERYONE. But those that love Kung Fu movies, samurais, anime references, and even just some hip hop beats along with a different score will like." This movie isn't for those that want something of substance or the kind of "English Patient" movies. Hell compared to Braveheart, this movie is substandard! But that's my point! It's in a place all it's own. And that's where the movie SHOULD be judged. As itself, not as something else. 

Oh yeah I gave it an 8. I would have gone 9, but I felt the fight with Gogo could have been a little longer.


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## jdavis (Oct 19, 2003)

Morrus said:
			
		

> I thought it was OK, but nothing special. Certainly not as good as Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction. I gave it a 6 - didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would and found some of it a bit too silly for my tastes.



I've got a friend who is working on a doctorate in Criminal Psychology and she loves Reservoir Dogs (she also loves Kalifornia, so that should tell you how her taste in movies runs). Reservoir Dogs made me very uncomfortable, there were parts of it that were so intense I had a hard time watching them, it's a completly different type of movie than Kill Bill, which is outlandish and obviously in "The Movie World". You could believe the people in Reservoir Dogs were real criminals and that stuff really happens, heck that's why my friend liked it. They used a old Godzilla set in Kill Bill, they took Samurai swords on the airplanes, there was absolutely no mistaking this for anyting in the real world. Heck even in Pulp Fiction you could believe that that kind of stuff could happen, The Kill Bill world was no more real than the Who Framed Roger Rabbit world, it was a complete action movie fantasy world.


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## Darrin Drader (Oct 19, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> I also think like Shin, this movie SHOULDN'T be compared to any of QT's other work. Because it's unique. It's like comparing apples and pears.




What are you talking about? Apples and pears are very similar. In fact, there's even a hybrid apple/pear that you can buy in some grocery stores.


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## Dragonblade (Oct 19, 2003)

I gave it a six. The music and retro atmosphere was great. It had that distinctive Tarantino style and had a nice hard edge to the story.

However, I'm sick to death of wire-fu. I'm also sick of Hollywood actor types trying to do martial arts or sword fighting.  They don't look or move naturally at all and the fights are so unrealistic and overchoreographed it drives me nuts.

Much better to find a trained and experienced martial artist and teach them to act, IMO.

I also hate it when American actors who can't speak Japanese to save their life are portrayed as supposedly fluent in it. Its painful to listen to them.

I also don't like Lucy Liu.  I don't think she is attractive at all and don't buy her as a Yakuza boss.


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## Dragonblade (Oct 19, 2003)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> I gave it a six. The music and retro atmosphere was great. It had that distinctive Tarantino style and had a nice hard edge to the story.
> 
> However, I'm sick to death of wire-fu. I'm also sick of Hollywood actor types trying to do martial arts or sword fighting.  They don't look or move naturally at all and the fights are so unrealistic and overchoreographed it drives me nuts.
> 
> ...




And to qualify my opinions, I have lived in Japan, I speak near-fluent Japanese, and I have a blackbelt and years of martial arts experience.


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## Particle_Man (Oct 19, 2003)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> I also don't like Lucy Liu.  I don't think she is attractive at all and don't buy her as a Yakuza boss.






Spoiler



Off with his head!


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## Nightfall (Oct 19, 2003)

Baraendur said:
			
		

> What are you talking about? Apples and pears are very similar. In fact, there's even a hybrid apple/pear that you can buy in some grocery stores.



Okay how about apples and coconuts?  

Dragon,

That's your call. I happen to like Lucy Lui and felt the actors spoke the language fluently enough. (Course I can't tell since I don't speak/read/know that much Japanese.)


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## Pants (Oct 19, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> That's your call. I happen to like Lucy Lui and felt the actors spoke the language fluently enough. (Course I can't tell since I don't speak/read/know that much Japanese.)



The only problem I had with the Japanese stuff was the use of the F-word.  From what little I know of the Japanese language, the F-word really doesn't exist in their tongue as we use it.  Saying it in Japanese would be the equivalent of saying fornicate you or fornicate this. Just a quibble though


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## Dragonblade (Oct 19, 2003)

Well, not liking Lucy Liu is just personal opinion.  I'm not going to downgrade the movie just because she is in it.

But I find it hard to swallow that she is some sort of Yakuza boss when she can't speak the language to save her life.

Now, the other girl, her "lieutenant", her Japanese was almost flawless. I could have believed her as a ruthless Yakuza boss.

But yeah, Japanese doesn't have "F--- you!" in their language.


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## Nightfall (Oct 19, 2003)

Yeah I liked Gogo too.  Of course I couldn't tell the difference but I guess someone that's spent a year or more probably could tell the difference. Me, it sounded good enough.


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## Pants (Oct 20, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Yeah I liked Gogo too.



I think he's talking about the lady with the phone, not Gogo.  Remember she 



Spoiler



lost her arm.


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## Nightfall (Oct 20, 2003)

Pants said:
			
		

> I think he's talking about the lady with the phone, not Gogo. Remember she
> 
> 
> 
> ...



mm, You mean the half-french, half japanese woman?  Eh. She was alright. But I'd still think Gogo is better.


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## Pants (Oct 20, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> mm, You mean the half-french, half japanese woman?  Eh. She was alright. But I'd still think Gogo is better.



Gogo was friggen' creepy.
'Now I have penetrated you.' *shudder*


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## nimisgod (Oct 20, 2003)

Kill Bill is grim attitude with style. I suppose that there is a bias there from being an "Anime Fanboy". But only a few anime though, can reach the grimness and the intensity of Kill Bill. The animated part was well done too, comparable to Cowboy Bebop's fight scenes (which are the best in the biz, IMO). 

The retro-tunes rocked, too.

I didn't really bother analyzing it for content or depth mainly bec. it was pretty obvious that those were not the point. I guess that I might be just enthralled at looking at a gritty battle where you actually see how the goons are killed and the bloody remnants of a battlefield. The movie reminds me somewhat of Kurosawa's Seven Samurai and Yojimbo. Fast and bloody sword action, delimbing included.

I love kick ass combat scenes and this movie has the one of the best I've ever seen. You can really feel that the hits connect, especially with the gore. I won't pretend that I'm deep and looking for the artistic whatever of the movie because I'm obviously a shallow fanboy  . I gave it a 10. Its good, dirty fun.

Oh yeah, Gogo is HOT. Pretty and deadly? She's got my vote for kewlest character with CE tendencies.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 20, 2003)

*New Evil..*

For GoGo... Her mindset will be *Mayhem Evil*

Pure and Simple...

"You can do better than that..." to the Bride, on the begging part.


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## Nifft (Oct 20, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> I'd give Cabin Fever a 2 out of 10 if anyone cares to know.




Cabin Fever was funny. It mocked its genre pretty well. I'd give it a 5.

Kill Bill also mocks its genre, but does a superlative job (and is better in its own right). Kill Bill gets a 9.

 -- N


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## Jeremy (Oct 20, 2003)

Loved it.  Glad the poll reflects that.


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## Dragonblade (Oct 21, 2003)

Gogo was played by Japanese actress Chiaki Kuriyama, so of course her Japanese was perfect.

I was actually referring to the half-French/Japanese woman.  Her Japanese was really good.  Perhaps she was raised in Japan or at least spent many years there.


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## Nightfall (Oct 21, 2003)

That's kind of who I thought you meant after I thought about dragonblade.


(Btw yeah Gogo's nuts and scary. But that's what I like in a woman. An element of unpredictability.  )


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## jdavis (Oct 21, 2003)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> I gave it a six. The music and retro atmosphere was great. It had that distinctive Tarantino style and had a nice hard edge to the story.
> 
> However, I'm sick to death of wire-fu. I'm also sick of Hollywood actor types trying to do martial arts or sword fighting. They don't look or move naturally at all and the fights are so unrealistic and overchoreographed it drives me nuts.
> 
> ...



But see that was sort of the point of the whole movie, it wasn't supposed to look like a real fight it was supposed to look like a over the top movie fight from a old action movie, if the fight scenes were in any way realistic then it would of looked really silly, it's the flash and the glitz  and the jumping around like a insane monkey that people want to see, real martial arts looks pretty poor in movies and the sword fighting scene would of ended with somebody running up behind Uma and sticking a sword in her 30 seconds into it. Not to mention the fact that this movie was meant to look like a *bad* 70's movie, there is a good chance they intentionally went way way overboard with it. 

Going into this movie and saying that any thing about it wasn't realistic enough really misses the point here, it's supposed to be in the movie world not the real world, it's supposed to be corney and goofy, they intentionally left mistakes and plot loopholes in the fim because that's how the films this was taken from were. As I've said before they should of dubbed it with bad voices and out of sync with the movie, them speaking poor Japanese added to the whole effect for me. The fact that the sword fight was so over the top and unreal was also a big part of the fun. 

All the stuff you didn't like is stuff they did intentionally to make the movie stylistically like a bad 70's movie. Lucy Liu's character was a Chinese-American-Japanese army brat turned assassin who took over the whole nationwide Yakuza with sword fighting high school students, I don't think you were supposed to "buy" her as a real world Yakuza boss. They belonged to the "DiVAS" assasination squad and were code-named after snakes, Daryl Hannah's code name was "California Mountain Snake", what kind of assassin would call themselves California Mountain Snake? Vivica Fox's character was mad she didn't get to be called "Black Mamba". Have I mentioned they used a old Godzilla set yet? The movie was supposed to be silly and unrealistic, that was the whole point. 



> Much better to find a trained and experienced martial artist and teach them to act, IMO.



 Acting is a talent, it is much much harder to train a decent actor than a decent martial artist. Just look at the caliber of martal artist/actors out there (Chuck Norris isn't winning many Oscars). It's real hard to teach personal charisma and you will never be able to train somebody to have the looks of a Swedish model. Besides there is very little in common between real martial arts and movie martial arts, one is meant for self defence and one is meant to look _cool_ on a movie screen. 

(By the way Lucy Liu practices Kali-Eskrima stick fighting, so she actually does have some real martial arts training, she also has a degree in Chinese Language and Culture so I bet her Chinese is pretty fluent at least.)


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## Kai Lord (Oct 21, 2003)

jdavis:

You remind me of the Star Wars fanboys who defended The Phantom Menace back in the day...

"You don't understand, Jar Jar is SUPPOSED to be annoying..."

"The Jedi are SUPPOSED to be wooden and boring..."

"Its all part of George Lucas' master plan, yadda yadda yadda."

We get it.  Kill Bill was "supposed" to suck.  Mission accomplished.


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## Nightfall (Oct 21, 2003)

And you Kai remind me of people that are never satifised unless it's your own vision of something.


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## Kai Lord (Oct 21, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> And you Kai remind me of people that are never satifised unless it's your own vision of something.



Ah I detect a Phantom Menace apologist in da house!  WooT!


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## Nightfall (Oct 21, 2003)

No.

I'm just not sure Kill Bill deserves to be lumped that travesty that was PM. It's like comparing apples and...pumpkins!


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## Kai Lord (Oct 21, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> No.
> 
> I'm just not sure Kill Bill deserves to be lumped that travesty that was PM. It's like comparing apples and...pumpkins!



Actually its more like comparing rotten apples and rotten pumpkins.


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## Nightfall (Oct 21, 2003)

In your opinion. Besides you can always turn rotten apples into good cider. Can't do that with rotten pumpkins. 


*pause*

Okay I have no idea what that had to do with this topic, but I will say I feel I'm right and Kai Lord is wrong.  There! Now that makes sense.


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## Welverin (Oct 21, 2003)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> And you Kai remind me of people that are never satifised unless it's your own vision of something.




More like someone who thinks everything he doesn't like is bad.


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## jdavis (Oct 21, 2003)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> jdavis:
> 
> You remind me of the Star Wars fanboys who defended The Phantom Menace back in the day...
> 
> ...



Phantom Menace was also supposed to be entertaining, shame it wasn't. 

Actually I'm going by what I have read in Tarantino interviews and websites on Kill Bill. Did I not post enough direct quotes in the other Kill Bill thread? Kill Bill was supposed to be nostalgic for people who like 70's B action movies. It's one of those things that you either get or you don't. If I said _Chitty Chitty Bang Bang_ was too unrealistic because the car didn't fly right I'd be missing the point of the movie. Look I don't care if anybody else liked the movie or not I just found it odd for somebody to say the fight scenes were to unrealistic in a movie that was made to be unrealistic. 

Kai Lord, you remind me with somebody with a lot of free time on his hands


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## Tetsubo (Oct 21, 2003)

barsoomcore said:
			
		

> I gave it a 9. It can't get a 10 because it's not finished, but I'll revisit my ranking after Volume 2 comes out. It was darn near perfect, though.




I'm with barsoomcore on this one. Every scene was just perfect.


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## Nightfall (Oct 21, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> More like someone who thinks everything he doesn't like is bad.



Well that is that too Welverin.


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## barsoomcore (Oct 21, 2003)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> And to qualify my opinions, I have lived in Japan, I speak near-fluent Japanese, and I have a blackbelt and years of martial arts experience.



 No offense, but how do any of those "qualifications" "qualify" you to judge any movie at all?

I have lived in Japan. I have two black belts in Japanese swordsmanship, one in ZNKF Kendo and one in Katori Shinto Ryu, given to me by the late Yoshio Sugino, one of the close associates of Morihei Ueshiba.

None of which has ANYTHING to do with my ability to judge a movie. Which is why I didn't bring it up. Cause I don't think a "My Schwartz is bigger than yours" argument is going to help things much.

Oh, wait. Darn.  

Okay, it was Chinese swordfighting by people holding katanas. That always bugs me, too. But in this case it added to my enjoyment of the whole picture. I mean, dude, seriously. Did you miss the Shaw Brothers logo at the start of the film?

Oh, and if you don't find Ms. Liu attractive that's just fine with me. Absolutely fine with me.


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## Nightfall (Oct 22, 2003)

Bar,

I don't mind if he feels "qualified". I just necessarily agree with his opinions. However that being said, I do respect his review/opinion on Kill Bill more than Kai Lord's. And I think I don't have to explain why.


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## Tzarevitch (Oct 22, 2003)

I'll be honest, I hated the movie. I gave it a 1. This is the first Tarantino move I have seen that I can say I trully couldn't stand. I understand the movie was supposed to be a tribute to/emulation of Hong Kong kung fu movies/1970's revenge movies but it could've been much, much better. 

The movie felt to me like I was looking at something produced by a film student: overlong scenes, choppy flow, poor character development, unnecessary animae, unnecessary chapterization etc..  The thing that most irritates me is that Tarantino felt the need to make us pay twice to see the whole story when with better editing and arrangement he could have fit it into one longish production. The only thing breaking this movie up did was insure that I won't waste my money on the second half. 

Tzarevitch


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## Tzarevitch (Oct 22, 2003)

I'll be honest, I hated the movie. I gave it a 1. This is the first Tarantino move I have seen that I can say I trully couldn't stand. I understand the movie was supposed to be a tribute to/emulation of Hong Kong kung fu movies/1970's revenge movies but it could've been much, much better. 

The movie felt to me like I was looking at something produced by a film student: overlong scenes, choppy flow, poor character development, unnecessary animae, unnecessary chapterization etc..  The thing that most irritates me is that Tarantino felt the need to make us pay twice to see the whole story when with better editing and arrangement he could have fit it into one longish production. The only thing breaking this movie up did was insure that I won't waste my money on the second half. 

Tzarevitch


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## Nightfall (Oct 23, 2003)

Well that's your perogative Tz. I personally feel you are wrong. But that's okay. I'm not in the minority about it being a good movie IMHO.


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## jdavis (Oct 23, 2003)

No movie is liked by everyone but I just don't get all this anger at the movie being broken into two parts. Even if they did do it just for the money it wouldn't bother me, why? well movies are all made to make money, that's their purpose that's their goal, it's a business designed to make money, that's why we get sequel after sequel after sequel of movies. O fcourse in this case it looks like for once in Hollywood they didn't do it for the money they did it so Tarantino could do the movie the way he wanted to do it. I wish they would do this more often rather than making directors edit the crap out of their movies, why do you think directors cuts are so popular, because it's how the director wanted it to be before the corporate bigwigs made them edit it down. I'm sure if you didn't like the movie then you don't really care if they made him throw half of his movie away or not, myself I'm glad to get to see all of what he shot. Besides it's not like they are robbing a bank, even where movies are expensive it's still less that it cost to go to TGI Fridays and get a burger, for me it's 4 extra bucks, I'lll skip a freaking big mac that day and go see the movie, maybe my wife will skip buying a pack of cigarettes that day and go with me. It's just not that big a deal per person, I blow more than $4 a week in cokes from vending machines.


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## kkoie (Oct 23, 2003)

Well I gave the movie a perfect 10.  I thought it was grand.  I loved all the movie references the film contained.  You can spend countless viewings just trying to identify all the references to other movies (including the soundtrack).

I thought the fact that the violence was portrayed in an almost cartoonish style to be hilarious.  Because it is so relentless, I think that it was a good idea for the movie to be split.  Watching that much carnage can be rather exhausting after a while (a problem I personally had with Natural Born Killers).

While some may argue that there really was no story and this is a problem, I disagree.  This movie, unlike others, is not about it's story.  The story is just a vehicle for whats going on.  The story doesn't matter.  This movie is all about style.  You may not like it, but you have to admit that it practically sprayed blood red style all over the laps of the audience in the theater.  Consider the cinematography.  The way the camera movied, and the choice of shots.  The way he used the viewing from above bit that was used similarly in Taxi Driver and then expanded upon it when the camera hit the bathroom in the House of Blue Leaves by moving down to an eyelevel without cutting.  Or the anime sequance.  I thought the whole thing was great!  I specially loved the shot where you saw the two girls lean over and look into the 'camera' while you viewed the world from inside the bullet ridden head.

Or consider the fight sequence set in the snow, with the snow flakes falling in time to the sword swings.  It was practically poetic in style when you saw the two facing each other down and all you could hear was the sound of the water-fixture.

So while the film may have been missing the cracking dialogue of say PulpFiction, it was still gushing with Tarantino style.  Only someone like Tarantino would have someone lose their head on screen, and make the audience laugh.


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## kkoie (Oct 23, 2003)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> Gogo was played by Japanese actress Chiaki Kuriyama, so of course her Japanese was perfect.
> 
> I was actually referring to the half-French/Japanese woman.  Her Japanese was really good.  Perhaps she was raised in Japan or at least spent many years there.




I read somewhere that Tarantino met her in Japan at some film festival and apparently called her up for the part when he was doing the movie.  I guess she has lived in japan for some time and has acted in a number of shows/movies/heckifIknow in japan, thus her skill with japanese.  Although the article said she really isn't half-japanese


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## Welverin (Oct 23, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> maybe my wife will skip buying a pack of cigarettes that day and go with me.




See, violent movies are good for you!


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## John Crichton (Oct 25, 2003)

Just got back from seeing it.

Man, that was FUN!

A little background: I am not an anime fan (I'm a movie fan). I didn't grow up watching 70's martial arts flicks nor do I know any of the movies referenced in this movie. But, ya know, I kinda feel like I did after seeing it.

Tarantino has been an aquired taste for me. My first experience with his directing was watching *Pulp Fiction*. I didn't like it much at all. Actually, I couldn't see what the big deal was. I laughed only once during the entire experience - 



Spoiler



when Vincent Vega blows off Marvin's head accidentally


. That was the only part I liked. Same for *Jackie Brown* upon viewing it for the first time. I thought it was crap.

A few years past and for some reason I ended up watching *Pulp Fiction* again. It blew me away even though I knew what was coming in every scene. It almost felt like a huge *CLICK* in my brain. I _got_ why people liked the movie and understood where the writer/director was coming from. The film wasn't about the story or really even the characters. It was about the experience and the style. 

Tarantino's movies have never been big sellers or huge money-makers. They are not everyone's cup of tea. Many people simply don't get his films. I can understand why someone could see any of his films as stupid, pointless, characterless and so on. It may seem like that on the surface. I've been there.

But I'm glad I'm in a better place now.


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## Aaron L (Oct 26, 2003)

I gave it a 3.  There was some cool stuff in it, but it was horribly drowned.  The big swordfight scene bored me, and a swordfight scene boring me is something I NEVER thought would happen.  

About halfway through I wanted the movie to be over, and I very rarely dislike a movie so much that I just want to leave it.  


Well, Mission Impossible 2 I did.  And Charlies Angles: Full Throttle.


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## Numion (Oct 26, 2003)

I gave a 4. Empty can rattles the most. Especially for a movie that supposedly had so much content it had to be broken into two. 

There was seriously room for cutting in this one, so it could've been just one movie.


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## Tetsubo (Oct 26, 2003)

Numion said:
			
		

> I gave a 4. Empty can rattles the most. Especially for a movie that supposedly had so much content it had to be broken into two.
> 
> There was seriously room for cutting in this one, so it could've been just one movie.




I wouldn't alter or cut a single scene in this film. It is close to perfect. Once I've seen Vol. II I will be able to judge if in fact it is perfect.

One film that I did consider to be perfect was The Shawshank Redemption. I think that Kill Bill has the potential to be that good.


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## Default Name Player (Oct 27, 2003)

Gave it a 10 on a relative score: I had high expections built up due to the buzz on it, and the movie surpassed those expectations (which is always a nice surprise). 

My qualifications? I've never left the US before (except to Canada), took Japanese for one year in High School and nearly failed, and I studied at a weekly self-defense course for around 2 months at a local high school around 15 years ago.

Um...beat that!


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 27, 2003)

Default Name Player said:
			
		

> Gave it a 10 on a relative score: I had high expections built up due to the buzz on it, and the movie surpassed those expectations (which is always a nice surprise).
> 
> My qualifications? I've never left the US before (except to Canada), took Japanese for one year in High School and nearly failed, and I studied at a weekly self-defense course for around 2 months at a local high school around 15 years ago.
> 
> Um...beat that!



Try ... :
I never came nearer to Asia than two weeks of Finland, never had any self-defense training (but was trained in the use of G3, G36, MG3 and some other weapons in the German Bundeswehr for around 10 months).

... Failure. Sorry. 

Mustrum Ridcully

PS: But I liked the movie, even though I don`t know the 70 actionmovies QT seems to refer to, nor am I an anime expert (I liked Cowboy Bebop, though).


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## Numion (Oct 28, 2003)

Tetsubo said:
			
		

> I wouldn't alter or cut a single scene in this film. It is close to perfect. Once I've seen Vol. II I will be able to judge if in fact it is perfect.




I wouldn't alter a single scene either - I'm not a film industry professional. QT is, however, and I would've expected him to do so. I was bored a little in the cinema at times. That doesn't happen often. And I absolutely liked his previous movies. 

IMO Kill Bill was just two combat scenes, surrounded by something .. filler. Most television serie episodes have more going in them.

And the humor wasn't any funny. The only funny jokes they showed in the trailer. Otherwise .. blech. Nobody laughed at the part "..and the limbs stay here", and I suspect that was supposed to be funny. I also suspect that we were supposed to laugh at the furious japanise jibba-jabba at times, but it didn't happen. 

A QT movie thats both a bit boring and not funny? WTF?


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## jdavis (Oct 28, 2003)

Numion said:
			
		

> I wouldn't alter a single scene either - I'm not a film industry professional. QT is, however, and I would've expected him to do so. I was bored a little in the cinema at times. That doesn't happen often. And I absolutely liked his previous movies.
> 
> IMO Kill Bill was just two combat scenes, surrounded by something .. filler. Most television serie episodes have more going in them.
> 
> ...



just didn't have that same type experience when I wnet to see it, people left the theater quietly talking and giggling like 12 year olds who found a old porn movie. Most of the people there seemed to get a real kick out of the movie. As I have said before I liked it because ofwhat it reminded me of, the line you mentioned wasn't really a joke, it was a throwback line to classic Hong Kong movies. If you were not a big fan of those type of movies then there is a good chance you would not be a fan of this movie.


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## Trainz (Oct 29, 2003)

Just coming back from seeing it. I gave it a nine out of ten. It was brilliant.

My wife hates violent movies, but she has one word to describe this movie: Genious. And she HATES violent movies. She just said a second ago as I'm typing this "Everything is perfect in this movie". She gives it a 10.

I would've gave it a 10 too, but the scene about 



Spoiler



the sword being forged was way too long and unecessary to my liking. IME, it should have lasted only 5 minutes and that's it.


. The rest was great. I really like the opening phrase:



Spoiler



Vengance is a dish better served cold.

................................................Old Klingon Proverb


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## Welverin (Oct 29, 2003)

Trainz said:
			
		

> [/spoiler]. The rest was great. I really like the opening phrase:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Spoiler



Everything is better in the original Klingon!


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## Numion (Oct 29, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> just didn't have that same type experience when I wnet to see it, people left the theater quietly talking and giggling like 12 year olds who found a old porn movie.




Thats quite common phenomenon when leaving a theater. I've never seen a crowd be totally quiet. (Ok, maybe people wouldn't giggle after Schindlers list, but in any movie that aimed to be funny.)



> Most of the people there seemed to get a real kick out of the movie. As I have said before I liked it because ofwhat it reminded me of, the line you mentioned wasn't really a joke, it was a throwback line to classic Hong Kong movies. If you were not a big fan of those type of movies then there is a good chance you would not be a fan of this movie.




Thats true, I'm not a big fan of old hongkong movies. Maybe thats why I didn't like the cartoon in the beginning (hmm.. not quite in the beginning, but in lucy lius past part) either, I don't like those anymore that much.

Strange that the movie went black and white at some point, first I thought it was the projector, but it ended when uma closed her eyes, so I guessed it was intentional even though the trailer was colored in those parts. Maybe I would've liked the normal way better. Such artsy tricks have their places, but I don't know in this case .. or is that an old hongkong movie throwback also?


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## Kai Lord (Oct 29, 2003)

Numion said:
			
		

> Strange that the movie went black and white at some point, first I thought it was the projector, but it ended when uma closed her eyes, so I guessed it was intentional even though the trailer was colored in those parts. Maybe I would've liked the normal way better. Such artsy tricks have their places, but I don't know in this case .. or is that an old hongkong movie throwback also?



I assumed the black and white was used during Uma's sword fight with the Yakuza to avoid an NC-17 rating.  Black and white film is different than color, and in the trailer when the Yakuza throws the axe at her head and she dodges it its in color.  Which means they filmed the entire sequence in color, and then for some reason changed it to black and white for the theatrical release.  As this would have been more expensive than just shooting that sequence in B/W to begin with, I can only imagine they got slapped with an NC-17 due to the all the blood in the last fight, and that the lack of color was Quentin's clever way of toning it down a bit to get the R.


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## barsoomcore (Oct 29, 2003)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> They filmed the entire sequence in color, and then for some reason changed it to black and white for the theatrical release.  As this would have been more expensive than just shooting that sequence in B/W to begin with, I can only imagine they got slapped with an NC-17 due to the all the blood in the last fight, and that the lack of color was Quentin's clever way of toning it down a bit to get the R.



These days it's usually MORE expensive to shoot BW. Stock and processing are usually more expensive. If you want to shoot BW, it's easiest to get colour stock (which you're probably getting a deal on anyway because you're buying a million feet of it) and then desaturate post-production.

That sequence reminded me of the end of _Sword of Doom_ so much I can't believe it's a coincidence. And as the fight went on, it got more and more like the climax of that film -- in which our psychopathic protagonist gets cut down by a swarm of enemies in a house -- that I started wondering how he was going to segue out of the reference -- and then the colour came back and I grinned. I felt that right at that moment that Mr. Tarantino had just said to me, "I know what you're thinking, but you're wrong. She's not a psychopath, and she's not going to die."

This is one of the things I really enjoyed about the film. It threw my brain around on so many levels simultaneously I just couldn't keep up with what was happening.


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## Krug (Oct 29, 2003)

After 105 votes, average score of 7.56..


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## jdavis (Oct 29, 2003)

Numion said:
			
		

> Thats quite common phenomenon when leaving a theater. I've never seen a crowd be totally quiet. (Ok, maybe people wouldn't giggle after Schindlers list, but in any movie that aimed to be funny.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The black and white bit was also a artsy throwback bit. Here is what Lucy Liu said about that scene: http://us.imdb.com/WN?20030605#9


> Stunner Lucy Liu is warning sensitive fans to avoid her new movie Kill Bill - because the dramatic violence will make them physically ill. The Charlie's Angels babe stars alongside Uma Thurman in cult director Quentin Tarantino's long-awaited fourth film, and predicts audiences will either flee from the cinema or vomit in their seats when they watch the extreme action - even if she thinks the violence is artistic. She says, "It's so violent. People will leave the movie theatre or get sick in the movie theatre. But there's so much violence that it becomes not numbing, but almost comedic. There's a scene where there's so much violence that the color of the film goes into black and white, so that the blood looks like oil. It's cinematic, it's art. You can take it to a different level, and show what violence is, in such a heightened manner that you don't think of it as violence anymore, you think of it as a language. If you go to _Kill Bill_, you know there's going to be violence - that's your option."


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## Trainz (Oct 30, 2003)

Incredible Nightfall, for once we agree on something.

Fascinating, wouldn't you say ?

Of course, it's non-RPG related...


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## WizarDru (Oct 30, 2003)

*Loved it.*  Once I got into the spirit of things, I absolutely loved it.  I was suprised how violent it was (and I expected the violence), but at the same time, I loved how stylistic it was, and how spot-on it was to the original material.  There were so many visual, musical and plot references that I was staggered.

The incomparable Sonny Chiba (old 'Stoneface' himself, he of Streetfighter, Stormrider and Golgo-13 fame) was hilarious and spot-on as the bladesmith.  The girl who played Gogo (previously seen in Battle Royale and...._a live action MPD Psycho?!?!_) was mucho scary.  Having Gordon Liu (the Master Killer himself) in two separate roles is brilliance.

The film showed the love affair that Tarantino has with Asian cinema in general, be it Hong Kong, anime, Chambara or even 70's U.S. chop-sockey fare.  With references to Haley Mills movies side-by-side with Star Trek references...well, I dig QT more than I ever did.


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## pfisteria (Nov 2, 2003)

I gave the movie a one; any movie that has me looking at my watch several times wondering when it's going to end deserves a one.


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