# Small/ large 4 color heroes



## vermicious knid (Aug 23, 2002)

How do i purchase a permaneant size increase/decrease with all the associated changes that would normally entail?


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## Morrus (Aug 24, 2002)

I'm not sure what you mean - there's only one version of the product currently available, although we're looking into a print version.


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## vermicious knid (Aug 24, 2002)

LOL. I wanted to know how to build a character that is permaneantly, naturally a size category other than medium. Do I have to work up a template for each size category?


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## Cheiromancer (Aug 25, 2002)

Kind of a slow forum, isn't it?

I think you would have to make up a set of templates.  

You would use the chart  on page 12 of the MM to figure out the ability adjustments.  The effects on natural armor and AC/attack bonuses and reach are given with Sizeshift (p. 85).

Increasing damage dice- I suppose that would be calculated on how much the average damage increases by.  1d4 to 1d6 is like a +1 to damage.  Improved weaponry could be tinkered with to provide an estimate as to cost.

Hmm.  I really don't feel like doing any work this morning, but it looks like it might be kind of worthwhile to build a giant from scratch...

Regards,

[edit- hadn't noticed sizeshift power in book]


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## Morrus (Aug 25, 2002)

We did actually have a variant size power... It'll be a good thing to stick in the next book. 

Forrester's (in another thread) suggestion of making a "large size" template is a good one.  That didn't occur to me.  I'd be interested to see how it works out.

[Cross posted in Nat 20 forum]


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## Morrus (Aug 25, 2002)

Alternatively, maybe Sizeshift with the Always Active restriction applied would work.


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## Blacksad (Aug 25, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Alternatively, maybe Sizeshift with the Always Active restriction applied would work. *




That lead to the question, the line in sizeshift that say that you don't gain any increased carying capacity is here to say that you don't gain any of the bonus that you might get through the addition of strength? or does it encompass the carying capacity rule in the PHB p142, and the character need to take mighty lifting to carry his sword?

Personaly, I would go with

New Size
Base rank 0
Effect: you have a new size, use the table from sizeshift to determine the cost of this power, each size increase cost an additional 1 point, thus if you go from large to huge it would cost 2 points, but if you go from large to small, it would cost 6 points.

Your new size affect carying capacity, unarmed damage, the size of the weapon you can wield, AC/attack, face/reach and some skills.


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## RangerWickett (Aug 25, 2002)

Just moved back into my dorm at college, and once I finish catching up with my gamer friends here, I'll post some thoughts tonight.  Sorry about the slow reply. . . .  And dang, I tend to say that a lot.  Maybe I need to hire a secretary.


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## Cheiromancer (Aug 25, 2002)

Size Shift (Medium-size --> Large)

Base rank 1
Medium-size to Large +1 rank
Heightened Strength (+8) +12 ranks
Lowered Dexterity (ad hoc –3)
Heightened Constitution (+4) +6 ranks
Natural Armor (+2) (Heightened Defenses) +4 ranks
Mighty Lifting (+2 ranks) 
Always on: -3 ranks

20 Hero Points.  Minimum 9th level (12 ranks in heightened strength)

A nice round number.  

Mind you, it might be better to redo Heightened Strength as follows:

Heightened Strength (+6) +9 ranks
Super Strength (+1 bonus to hit, +2 effective strength) 2 ranks
Heightened Accuracy (+1) 1 rank

Same number of ranks, but now the minimum level is 6 (9 ranks in Heightened Strength).

20 points, plus a few points of Enhanced Vision or Scent, or something, and you have an ECL of exactly +3.

Edit: thanks Morrus for the pointer to Mighty Lifting


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## Morrus (Aug 26, 2002)

Cheiromancer said:
			
		

> *
> I need to add some ad-hoc thing about doubling one's carrying capacity (a limited form of super strength should do it) *




Mighty Lifting at base rank (2) does exactly that: +5 Str bonus for carrying/lifting purposes only, which doubles your carrying capacity.


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## RangerWickett (Aug 26, 2002)

Ai-yah.  It's too late right now.  I plan to go to bed.  I promise I will work up those new size powers tomorrow, once I've slept.


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## RangerWickett (Aug 26, 2002)

However, as one quick note, look on the D20 System Games forum to read the thread there with a title identical to this one's.  There are some ideas there.  Also, many people have stated that, particularly in D&D, things like improved reach and super speed are underpriced.  In modern supers games, where guns and blasters are common, long reach isn't so much of a benefit, but it does help out a lot in fantasy games.  It's definitely great to be getting extra playtest feedback, even though it is after the fact.  We'll have to consider closely how to use this feedback when we release the Big Book of Super Powers.  My gut tells me that it is kinda sloppy to have different prices for different genres, but I think the gamers here are generally right.


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## Blacksad (Aug 26, 2002)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> *My gut tells me that it is kinda sloppy to have different prices for different genres, but I think the gamers here are generally right. *




You don't have to list the alternate price on the power itself, just in an appendix in a big table, with one column for each setting (Medieval Fantasy, Modern Fantasy, Science Fantasy, Gritty Medieval, Modern, Science Fiction). You would keep the default price on the power description (modern fantasy?).


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