# How does EN Publishing feel WotC announcement?



## Nebten (Jan 9, 2012)

What are the initial thoughts of those involved with EN Publishing feel about WotC announcement with the impending new edition? (Publishers, writers, designers, etc)

Resent history shows WotC decides to change things up right when ENP is in the middle of a big production:

4th edition was released when the original War of the Burning Sky* was just over half way complete, and then had to be re-designed for 4th edition a year or so later.

Now ENP hasn't even gotten out of heroic tier with Zeitgeist with today's news.

Where does this leave development of Santiago? Will it delay production to see the new edition unfolds with regards to mechanics and publishing rights? Or will it continue with just 4th edition and Pathfinder?

Also, I'm wondering how over all this effect a publishing company having an additional layer to content with. Since ENP was established with 3.x material, has it been worth it to also expand into the 4E market and will continue to do so with these trends?



*(which I ran and completed, a fun series)


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## Marius Delphus (Jan 10, 2012)

I hope they use fonts I like.


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## RangerWickett (Jan 10, 2012)

It's still very early to know what we'll end up doing, but if assumptions about an August 2013 release are correct, we'll have already put out adventure 9 of ZEITGEIST by then. If you've read the DM's Guide for the adventure path, it . . . well, it almost makes sense to switch rulesets after that adventure.


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## Morrus (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm under an NDA, and giving my opinion would pretty much involve saying stuff I'm not able to say.  Sorry!


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## gideonpepys (Jan 10, 2012)

RangerWickett said:


> It's still very early to know what we'll end up doing, but if assumptions about an August 2013 release are correct, we'll have already put out adventure 9 of ZEITGEIST by then. If you've read the DM's Guide for the adventure path, it . . . well, it almost makes sense to switch rulesets after that adventure.




**SPOILERS**

While designing 3rd edition, Monte Cook began introducing new rules into his ongoing 2E campaign as he went.  At fairly mid-high level, a major astrological event occured that fundamentally altered the way magic worked in the campaign world and ushered in 3E in full.

The event that occurs in Zeitgeist could explain more than just magical changes and would be the ideal opportunity to make them, should you be in a position to do so.  Fingers crossed and hear's hoping for a successful adventure path, however it turns out!

(Now, where's adventure #3? )


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## Colmarr (Jan 10, 2012)

RangerWickett said:


> If you've read the DM's Guide for the adventure path, it . . . well, it almost makes sense to switch rulesets after that adventure.




I hope you don't.

I haven't liked the thrust of the Legends and Lore articles, and with Mearls and Cook at the helm I suspect I won't be adopting 5e. It almost seems prescient that you included guidelines to finish the AP in paragon...

On a more practical note, given how little support epic has gotten in 4e, I imagine it''s going to be a bear to design an epic adventure for 5e right out of the gate.


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## malcolm_n (Jan 12, 2012)

Colmarr said:


> I hope you don't.
> 
> I haven't liked the thrust of the Legends and Lore articles, and with Mearls and Cook at the helm I suspect I won't be adopting 5e. It almost seems prescient that you included guidelines to finish the AP in paragon...
> 
> On a more practical note, given how little support epic has gotten in 4e, I imagine it''s going to be a bear to design an epic adventure for 5e right out of the gate.




I disagree.  If it is truly as modular as they say, creating the epic tier modules in the new iteration shouldn't be impossible.  With Ryan's grasp of design, I doubt it would set him back more than a month.


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## RangerWickett (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll resist the urge to put in the spiky hair, but the last time I saw appropriately 'epic' combat, it looked like this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBnPR19NUm4&t=170[/ame]

(Yes, it's ridiculous. Skip to 2:50.)

"Well, your Supra-Cleave misses him."

"Meh, fine. I chop the landscape in half instead. I'll also activate my 'ominous Latin choir' as a minor action."


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## Falkus (Jan 12, 2012)

malcolm_n said:


> I disagree.  If it is truly as modular as they say, creating the epic tier modules in the new iteration shouldn't be impossible.  With Ryan's grasp of design, I doubt it would set him back more than a month.




Personally, when I start a campaign, I'd rather complete it using the same system; not swap halfway through.

Though I run this in Pathfinder in any case; so this news isn't going to have an impact on my game either way.


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## N'raac (Jan 12, 2012)

Falkus said:


> Personally, when I start a campaign, I'd rather complete it using the same system; not swap halfway through.




Long term, will having Zeitgeist (or any AP) requiring two editions of rules be viable marketing?  I suspect, at some point, the whole AP will need to be revised to reflect the new edition if it's to remain salable, at which time there won't be a change of rule systems over the course of the AP anyway.  Of course, that doesn't prevent having the later sections done in 5e from the outset, but I suspect many groups will prefer to finish the AP in the 4e rules they started with.  A lot depends on how tough converting the PC's from 4e to 5e would be, too.


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## RangerWickett (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not actually thinking of converting to 5e without finishing the 4e version. If our audience prefers that, we could do it, but at this point I'm assuming we'll finish out the 4e version. 

That's not to say my assumption could end up wrong. With War of the Burning Sky, the announcement of 4e really chilled interest in 3e adventures, so it was a struggle to get the adventure path finished. This time around, we're definitely going to keep releasing the Pathfinder versions of ZEITGEIST, so we may as well do the 4e versions too. 

That is at least until Paizo announces Pathfinder II.


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## Siberys (Jan 13, 2012)

Oh, I certainly would want you to keep going with the 4e one. I'm not interested in switching ruleset midstream, or especially as late in a game as after the ninth adventure.


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## Colmarr (Jan 14, 2012)

RangerWickett said:


> I'm not actually thinking of converting to 5e without finishing the 4e version. If our audience prefers that, we could do it, but at this point I'm assuming we'll finish out the 4e version.




Amen, brother!


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## ve4grm (Jan 14, 2012)

Well, my assumption for a date is summer 2014. Given that:
- it took almost a year after announcing 4e before it released
- we're at a stage of "very very early design"
- they won't even start the public playtesting until the spring, and need to have time to incorporate it into the design in multiple stages

Should I be correct, Zeitgeist wil be finished.

Should I be wrong, I suppose you could always release three versions of the last 4 adventures, should you feel like transitioning to 5e.

If not, the fan conversion will likely come quickly.


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## N'raac (Jan 15, 2012)

Regardless of the timing, I'd release the whole thing in 4.0.  I suspect, when all's said and done, you'll then want to consider whether to release the whole thing for 5th Ed.  Anyone wanting to run some sections in 4e and others in 5e need simply select the appropriate versions.


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## Peter FdH (Jan 15, 2012)

I suppose one of the main points is how easy it might be to convert from 4e to 5e.  I've run 3e Cthulhu modules in the fifth edition of that game and it hardly shows (appreciate that D&D is likely to have more mechanics though).

One of my main fears is that a D&D community already fragmented into 3E, Pathfinder and 4E will now be further fragmented.  That must be hard for a publisher to deal with in terms of finding a market for their product.


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## ve4grm (Jan 16, 2012)

Peter FdH said:


> One of my main fears is that a D&D community already fragmented into 3E, Pathfinder and 4E will now be further fragmented.  That must be hard for a publisher to deal with in terms of finding a market for their product.




Indeed it is, which is why one of their stated goals is to create something that can draw in fans of all editions.

Whether they can succeed in that remains to be seen. It will be quite the task, though.

In any case, a direct mechanical conversion will likely be rather complicated. But a fan conversion will probably be done regardless, even if monsters have to be redesigned to do it. I just hope that whoever does it, they post the conversion (if they're allowed to). No story, of course. Just converted monsters and skill challenges, to be used with the purchased adventures.


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## Gronin (Jan 18, 2012)

I am pleased to hear that Zeitgeist will be finished in 4E (I had pretty much assumed it would be so).

My question is how will this affect the release of Santiago?  Are you now going to put this on hold?  I am hoping the answer is no.  

I have to admit I was tempted into a Silver Subscription by the Steam Punk aspects of Zeitgeist and War of the Burning Sky has been a very pleasant bonus (I am running both campaigns at the moment) but it was the thought of Santiago that pushed me over the top and had me upgrade my subscription. 

That being said I suppose I would understand if you were hesitant to to release it under 4E (although I am assuming there has been a fair bit of work done and perhaps the 4E stuff that is done might eventually see the light of day).


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## malcolm_n (Jan 19, 2012)

Santiago is still well under way at this time.  There's actually a blog coming up about it soon.


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