# [Board Games] Carcassonne add-ons that decrease its nastiness?



## blargney the second (Jul 9, 2008)

Carcassonne has been described as "divorce in a box", and rightly so.  It's nasty.  Do any of the add-ons decrease the nastiness of the game or otherwise make it an undesirable tactic?
-blarg

ps - Here's a link to an excellent Java-based online version Carcassonne.


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## Crothian (Jul 9, 2008)

I've not been in a game where it got nasty or ever heard this called divorce in a box.  I imagine the best way would be to just not play so cut throat or however people are playing that makes it so nasty.


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## blargney the second (Jul 9, 2008)

Blocking is one tactic that helps secure victory.  You make it so their meeples get trapped with a low-probability tile required to free them from their spot on the board.  It's just like Lanchester's Laws - all things being equal whoever has more soldiers available will tend to win.  If you can tie up their guys, you gain a numerical advantage.

The problem is that it's such a good tactic that it's hard to pass up, despite how cruel it is to the other player.


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## Charwoman Gene (Jul 9, 2008)

If your spouse is that sensitive, you should let them win.

My wife learned that lesson.


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## blargney the second (Jul 9, 2008)

I enjoy the struggle of competition, and I like to play to win.  I'd rather find a way to change the game such that the cruel winning tactic is less effective.

Are there any supplements that do that?


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## Asmor (Jul 9, 2008)

You might try a different game, like Carcassonne: The Castle or Carcassonne: The Discovery. In The Castle, there are fewer restrictions on where tiles may be placed (so it's harder to get a guy stuck); in The Discovery, when you remove your meeples is your choice (so it's impossible to get a guy stuck).

I like The Castle, though I've only played it once (fiancée didn't care for it). It has a slightly different feel than Carcassonne, though not much different. I've never played The Discovery, but the general consensus seems to be that it's not quite as good as Carc.


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## Crothian (Jul 9, 2008)

blargney the second said:


> I enjoy the struggle of competition, and I like to play to win.  I'd rather find a way to change the game such that the cruel winning tactic is less effective.
> 
> Are there any supplements that do that?




I think the supplements would just make it worse.  With more tiles to choose from the odds of getting the one you need would be reduced.  Now, I've only played with the River, the river 2, and Inns and Cathedrals.


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## scitadel (Jul 10, 2008)

I can think of two expansions that could help alleviate that - Princess & Dragons and Abbey & Mayor.

Princess & Dragons gives you the magic portal tiles that allow you to 'transport' a trapped meeple to another location.  The other bits of the expansion actually are worst (but can be removed).

I'd probably go with the Abbey & Mayor expansion.  It has three things that will really help with trapped meeples - the Abbey tile to complete a location (can be placed anywhere!), the 'Barn' that can be played to score (and replace) a farmer during the game and the 'Wagon' that allows you to move along roads to the next feature to score.  All will help with that.

For a brief summary of all the expansions, check out my quick guide


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## Asmor (Jul 10, 2008)

It was my understanding that the portal tiles allowed you to place a meeple anywhere on the board, not retrieve a meeple.


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## blargney the second (Jul 10, 2008)

scitadel said:


> I can think of two expansions that could help alleviate that - Princess & Dragons and Abbey & Mayor.




Awesome, thanks for the advice! 



Asmor said:


> It was my understanding that the portal tiles allowed you to place a meeple anywhere on the board, not retrieve a meeple.




Does anybody have the rules nearby to check that?
-blarg


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## capn_frank (Jul 10, 2008)

*Magic portal rule*

From the sheet that comes with the Princess & the Dragon
(bolding of words in the original rules)

*The magic portal (6 tiles)*
When a player draws and places a magic portal tile, he may place *a* follower *on this or any previously placed tile*. When doing so, he must follow all other placement rules, for example, not on a feature with another follower. In additionm he may not, place his follower on an already completed feature.

Cap'n Frank


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## blargney the second (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks, capn_frank!  So no trapped meeple retrieval with portals.  Looks like Abbey & Mayor will be in my future.
-blarg


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## scitadel (Jul 11, 2008)

Huh. Oops. Thanks for the catch Asmor. I think I need to replay that expansion. I hate it when I play an expansion with bad rules that change the game.


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## Asmor (Jul 11, 2008)

scitadel said:


> Huh. Oops. Thanks for the catch Asmor. I think I need to replay that expansion. I hate it when I play an expansion with bad rules that change the game.




I really don't care for P&D. The dragon is utterly useless, the magic portals change the game on too fundamental a level, and the fairy is an annoying piece to try and remember each round.


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## HellHound (Jul 13, 2008)

The King and Scout expansion is a friendly one - along with the one with the resource tiles, it gives you a reason to help close a city or road because the person who closes it gets the benefit, not the person who owns it.


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## Wraith101 (Jul 23, 2008)

I think King and Baron is for Xbox. There is a king and Scout expansion for the normal game that introduces 'Longest Road' and 'Largest City' rules, but it does not reduce the 'nastiness' as you call it at all. 

Traders and Builders does add incentive to complete others cities.

'The Count of Carcassonne' changes the game dramatically; completing others features becomes a necessity!


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## glass (Jul 27, 2008)

blargney the second said:


> I enjoy the struggle of competition, and I like to play to win.  I'd rather find a way to change the game such that the cruel winning tactic is less effective.



But then, wouldn't the new winning tactics become the ruthless and cruel ones?

_EDIT: I do believe this is my first post in CCG and board games._


glass.


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## blargney the second (Jul 27, 2008)

Winning isn't cruel.  Pulling a Tonya Harding in order to win is cruel.
-blarg


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## Varianor Abroad (Jul 29, 2008)

Wraith101 said:


> Traders and Builders does add incentive to complete others cities.




Yes. There are a few other rules "incentives" in that set that also get folks to play a bit more cooperatively.

With Princess and the Dragon, you actually can play cooperatively to manuever the Dragon away from other players. 

_Carcassonne _is a bit competitive no matter what though. Might I suggest a different game if it's just the two of you?


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