# Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings



## RangerWickett (Sep 4, 2021)

This is a weird movie, simultaneously part of a superhero franchise and a martial arts fantasy epic _and_ a pretty solid story of a family dealing with loss. I was really entertained. I hope you all see it so we can talk about it.


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## Morrus (Sep 4, 2021)

Is it cinema only or are they streaming it too?


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## Urriak Uruk (Sep 4, 2021)

Morrus said:


> Is it cinema only or are they streaming it too?




Cinema only. They're testing whether cinema will finally come back... I'm doubting it.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 4, 2021)

I'll probably see it Monday afternoon. We'll see.

I don't think that cinemas will ever fully recover. Time will tell.


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## trappedslider (Sep 4, 2021)

RangerWickett said:


> This is a weird movie, simultaneously part of a superhero franchise and a martial arts fantasy epic _and_ a pretty solid story of a family dealing with loss. I was really entertained. I hope you all see it so we can talk about it.



It was good,I was a bit surprised at how one guy was dealt with. The post-credits were good, also nice callbacks to Iron man 3 and taken care of a  dangling plot thread from it too. I recommend watching the short "All hail the king" it's not 100 needed to watch, but it gives a visual to a bit of explanation.


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## Morrus (Sep 4, 2021)

Urriak Uruk said:


> Cinema only. They're testing whether cinema will finally come back... I'm doubting it.



Ah well. I’ll probably watch it when it eventually hits Disney+.


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## Erekose (Sep 4, 2021)

Went to see it with my son today. My expectation for all of the “post-Endgame” Marvel content has been low and this is the first superhero film I’ve seen with no knowledge of the character (well to be fair that would be Captain Marvel - I must have stopped reading comicS after Captain Marvel was introduced but before Carol Danvers took over the name).

Despite that I was blown away - an interesting mix of style and tone but they work. Similarly it was quite predictable in places but the characters are so well-developed (and in many cases just so likeable) and the story so well told that again, I was happy to go along for the ride.

The ending was a week point for the film (with for me the first half being much stronger) but overall it’s a great addition to the MCU films.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 4, 2021)

I haven't seen it yet, but I find myself wishing that they'd quit doing those big CG-Laden "Final Battle" scenes. I know that they are _expected_ but who cares? They nearly always make the movie worse. Black Widow (for the most recent example) is almost entirely ruined by the "falling station" scene where physics goes right out the window and you start to question the extent of the character's abilities.

For an older example, I would argue that Wonder Woman was ruined by it's big final battle. At least the _story_ was ruined, even if the movie somehow survived to still be likeable (unlike the second one, but its problems were all over the place). The story in WW was that modern War was a bureaucrat, not a giant in armour with an axe, and humanity was responsible, not the gods, and yet... once WW beat the giant god in armour, the war ended (Axis and Allies hugged each other, IIRC!) It was so obviously tagged on, to make it worse.

I hope my hatred of the trope doesn't ruin Shang Chi for me. Sounds like the rest will be good enough to make up for it.


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## Urriak Uruk (Sep 4, 2021)

FitzTheRuke said:


> I haven't seen it yet, but I find myself wishing that they'd quit doing those big CG-Laden "Final Battle" scenes. I know that they are _expected_ but who cares? They nearly always make the movie worse. Black Widow (for the most recent example) is almost entirely ruined by the "falling station" scene where physics goes right out the window and you start to question the extent of the character's abilities.
> 
> For an older example, I would argue that Wonder Woman was ruined by it's big final battle. At least the _story_ was ruined, even if the movie somehow survived to still be likeable (unlike the second one, but its problems were all over the place). The story in WW was that modern War was a bureaucrat, not a giant in armour with an axe, and humanity was responsible, not the gods, and yet... once WW beat the giant god in armour, the war ended (Axis and Allies hugged each other, IIRC!) It was so obviously tagged on, to make it worse.
> 
> I hope my hatred of the trope doesn't ruin Shang Chi for me. Sounds like the rest will be good enough to make up for it.




Doctor Strange is not a fantastic movie, but the best part about it is how he doesn't beat the villain in a CGI battle of "Who's Stronger!" He tricks the bad guy instead, which fits the character way better (and was pretty entertaining).


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 4, 2021)

Urriak Uruk said:


> Doctor Strange is not a fantastic movie, but the best part about it is how he doesn't beat the villain in a CGI battle of "Who's Stronger!" He tricks the bad guy instead, which fits the character way better (and was pretty entertaining).



Yeah. That still was a big CG-laden final battle, but he won by being smart and not in a badly-animated punch-up. I really liked that one.


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## Erekose (Sep 4, 2021)

FitzTheRuke said:


> Yeah. That still was a big CG-laden final battle, but he won by being smart and not in a badly-animated punch-up. I really liked that one.



Well hopefully without giving too much away, part of the final battle does suffer from CGI vs CGI but it’s more of a speed bump than something that completely derails the ending.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 4, 2021)

Erekose said:


> Well hopefully without giving too much away, part of the final battle does suffer from CGI vs CGI but it’s more of a speed bump than something that completely derails the ending.



That's good. To a certain extent, I can tolerate that kind of thing, I just wish that they didn't think it was necessary. Black Widow would have been better without it, for example. (IMO)


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## Stalker0 (Sep 8, 2021)

This was probably the best marvel movie I have seen in a while. Blows Black Widow out of the water. I highly recommend it.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 8, 2021)

I'd say the same as Stalker0.  Saw both Black Widow and Shang Chi as the only two movies I've seen in a theatre in over a year. I enjoyed Black Widow, even though it had its problems. Shang Chi blows it out of the water. It's solid. Even the above discussed CGI finale actually worked pretty well for me. Sure, it was overly big and overly CG'd, but it worked with the story and was... well, kind of awesome.


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## Rabulias (Sep 12, 2021)

Saw this the other day and really enjoyed it. Tony Leung does a great job, but the whole cast was excellent. Definitely a vastly different take on Shang-Chi from the _Master of Kung-Fu_ comics I used to read back in the day; they were more James Bond-ian affairs, IIRC. Still a fun film.

So about the first end credits scene:


Spoiler



Why is Bruce not in Professor Hulk form? And Captain Marvel's hair is a good bit longer than it was in _Avengers: Endgame_ so I guess this takes place months after that film?

And who/what are the Ten Rings calling to? My first thought is the Eternals, Deviants, and/or Celestials, since we have _The Eternals _film next up in November. But could it be foreshadowing something further out?

And why doesn't Wong kick it up to Dr. Strange to look at? Why isn't Strange looking at it with them? I mean, I can come up with all kinds of story reasons/excuses why, but I wonder if it is an intentional point? If this takes place between _Spider-Man: Far From Home _(which calls out Dr Strange as "unavailable" - again, maybe "plot convenience," maybe not...?) and _Spider-Man: No Way Home_ (where something seems "off" with Strange), perhaps Strange's absence is plot-relevant?


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## Stalker0 (Sep 13, 2021)

Rabulias said:


> And why doesn't Wong kick it up to Dr. Strange to look at?



One thing I think this movie did well was highlighting Wong as his own man, rather than just "Dr Strange's assistant". So the idea of Wong handling this kind of investigation himself makes plenty of sense, especially since realistically he knows more about mystical artifacts than Strange does at this point....for all of Strange's natural talents and quick study Wong still has many years of experience and exposure to mystical things than Strange does.


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## HawaiiSteveO (Sep 13, 2021)

Two thumbs up sequence at the start when Wenwu meets Ying Li in the garden, would watch that again and again.  
Wasn't sure I was going to like Katy the goofy sidekick, but she kind of grew on me - she changed through the movie as they raised the stakes, well done.  
 Meng'er Zhang as sister Xu is a star, great performance and hope to see her in more movies.
Ending was hot mess... I didn't think Black Widow was _that_ bad, compared to this one. 
Great chemistry / relationships for sure. Black Widow did a solid job with this as well, definite improvement from the earlier movies.


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## BrokenTwin (Sep 13, 2021)

I enjoyed the movie, but I was struck with an odd bit of humor when I realized that the Ten Rings mooks use exclusively non-lethal weapons (hook swords with tasers instead of sharp edges, electric bolas flinging crossbows), and our intrepid heroes are launching people off buildings and using actual bladed weapons against their opponents. What measure is a mook indeed.
And yes, I know, the minibosses use lethal weapons, but my mirth stands.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 13, 2021)

BrokenTwin said:


> I enjoyed the movie, but I was struck with an odd bit of humor when I realized that the Ten Rings mooks use exclusively non-lethal weapons (hook swords with tasers instead of sharp edges, electric bolas flinging crossbows), and our intrepid heroes are launching people off buildings and using actual bladed weapons against their opponents. What measure is a mook indeed.
> And yes, I know, the minibosses use lethal weapons, but my mirth stands.



Yeah, no one felt really bad about throwing a guy off a building either. I think I'd be horrified if I did that (and I absolutely would be if my friend did it.)


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## RangerWickett (Sep 14, 2021)

The road outside was actually a big trampoline, so they all landed okay. Or else they had parachutes. Or catlike reflexes to handle falls like a champ.

But yeah, when the Ten Rings rolled up on a village of martial artists and did not immediately unload with machine guns, I sighed and reminded myself to suspend my disbelief.


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## Retreater (Sep 14, 2021)

I still haven't seen Black Widow. I think the Endgame was a good time for me to get off the superhero movie treadmill. Unless one seems independently compelling to watch, I'll probably pass. I'm tired of watching movies that seem to exist just to hype future movies.


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## Lidgar (Sep 14, 2021)

RangerWickett said:


> But yeah, when the Ten Rings rolled up on a village of martial artists and did not immediately unload with machine guns, I sighed and reminded myself to suspend my disbelief.





HawaiiSteveO said:


> Ending was hot mess...



Yep. While I liked it overall, the ending was pretty clunky in many spots - felt forced too. But hey, its a superhero movie, so I just (try to) let all that go. Characters were very likable, even the "villains" - came much more positive about this phase of the MCU.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 14, 2021)

Retreater said:


> I still haven't seen Black Widow. I think the Endgame was a good time for me to get off the superhero movie treadmill. Unless one seems independently compelling to watch, I'll probably pass. I'm tired of watching movies that seem to exist just to hype future movies.




Then you'd probably like Shang Chi. Just skip the post-credit scenes (the only thing that sets up more MCU).


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## Stalker0 (Sep 14, 2021)

RangerWickett said:


> The road outside was actually a big trampoline, so they all landed okay. Or else they had parachutes. Or catlike reflexes to handle falls like a champ.
> 
> But yeah, when the Ten Rings rolled up on a village of martial artists and did not immediately unload with machine guns, I sighed and reminded myself to suspend my disbelief.



in my head canon, i went with the notion that this was Wenru’s last bit of mercy. He intended to capture the villagers alive (for the most part obviously there are casualties in battle), and so had his men use non lethal weapons.

Option 2, he believes the dragon armor they wear is bullet proof and so relies on energy weapons.

Do either of these REALLY make sense? No, but it was enough for me


like many movies, I could pick apart Sheng Chi if I wanted to. But what I liked about the movie is I didn’t want to, I wanted the ride. That is stark contrast to Black Widow where I got bored and the movie didn’t really jive with me, and so I started picking it apart in my head


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 14, 2021)

I can't believe I didn't notice that (the non-lethal weapons for the 10 Rings flunkies) before. I like to think about what movies _show_ you vs what they _tell_ you and see how it changes the story. Sometimes it changes things drastically. 

This goes to explain some critiques that I've heard "Why did Wenwu send his mooks to _kill_ Shang-Chi if he wanted to reunite his family/" (A: Obviously he didn't. He sent them to remind Shaun who he really was.)


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## RangerWickett (Sep 14, 2021)

Stalker0 said:


> in my head canon, i went with the notion that this was Wenru’s last bit of mercy. He intended to capture the villagers alive (for the most part obviously there are casualties in battle), and so had his men use non lethal weapons.



That could have actually worked. When he gives the order to Saberfist to get ready, he looks past his minion and sees some mooks starting to mount a machine gun atop a jeep, so he adds, "My children are still there. Nonlethal weapons. My wife's people are just peasants, after all. We take prisoners, and once I free my wife, I shall let her decide their fate."


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## Staffan (Sep 14, 2021)

I was a bit disappointed with the actual rings. In the comics, the ten rings are the Mandarin's weapons, and each of them have their own powers (e.g. flame projection, mind control, light, darkness, matter rearranging, etc.). These rings just project force and stuff, which is pretty dull all things considered.

I mean, I get why they don't use the classical Mandarin (because it's a *horribly* racist caricature of a character), but I think the rings suffered as a result.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 14, 2021)

Staffan said:


> I was a bit disappointed with the actual rings. In the comics, the ten rings are the Mandarin's weapons, and each of them have their own powers (e.g. flame projection, mind control, light, darkness, matter rearranging, etc.). These rings just project force and stuff, which is pretty dull all things considered.
> 
> I mean, I get why they don't use the classical Mandarin (because it's a *horribly* racist caricature of a character), but I think the rings suffered as a result.



I liked what they did with the rings. The trouble with doing them like the comics is, they'd be very similar to the Infinity Stones. Each a different colour, each controlling a different "element" (one's even a mind-control ring, like the mind stone). This is MUCH more kung-fu.


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## Marc Radle (Sep 15, 2021)

FitzTheRuke said:


> I liked what they did with the rings. The trouble with doing them like the comics is, they'd be very similar to the Infinity Stones. Each a different colour, each controlling a different "element" (one's even a mind-control ring, like the mind stone). This is MUCH more kung-fu.




Agree 100%


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## DeviousQuail (Sep 16, 2021)

It was a good movie and very different from other Marvel films. Some of the story beats were clunky but the cast was mostly great. A solid middle tier MCU movie. If there was one thing I would change 



Spoiler



the end of the Macau scene. Their father should have kicked their butts to show off his power and how far Shang-chi and Xuliang are from being on his level. A quick and one-sided fight where they don't work together and give up so he can take them home. It would've made Katy's line about their father being scary land better.


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## Thomas Shey (Sep 16, 2021)

FitzTheRuke said:


> I haven't seen it yet, but I find myself wishing that they'd quit doing those big CG-Laden "Final Battle" scenes. I know that they are _expected_ but who cares?




Well, as you mention yourself, people who go to see superhero movies.  Honestly, if there's one genre which damn near demands heavy special effects investment, its the superhero genre.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 16, 2021)

Thomas Shey said:


> Well, as you mention yourself, people who go to see superhero movies.  Honestly, if there's one genre which damn near demands heavy special effects investment, its the superhero genre.



Sure, sure, but they don't _always_ have to end the thing with a giant CG battle. I can think of a few movies (Wonder Woman and Black Widow in particular, but others as well) which would have been better without, or at least with a significantly toned-down version of their final CG-laden battle. Sometimes more story or character and less flash and fight would serve the piece much better. It really doesn't matter if it's Superhero or any other kind of Action or Sci-Fi. IMO people have weird, somewhat dismissive expectations of Superhero stuff that the sub-genre really doesn't deserve.


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## Thomas Shey (Sep 16, 2021)

FitzTheRuke said:


> Sure, sure, but they don't _always_ have to end the thing with a giant CG battle. I can think of a few movies (Wonder Woman and Black Widow in particular, but others as well) which would have been better without, or at least with a significantly toned-down version of their final CG-laden battle. Sometimes more story or character and less flash and fight would serve the piece much better. It really doesn't matter if it's Superhero or any other kind of Action or Sci-Fi. IMO people have weird, somewhat dismissive expectations of Superhero stuff that the sub-genre really doesn't deserve.




You might have an argument regarding pacing.  That said, its easy for a movie with an action focus, which pretty much every superhero story is liable to have, to sag at the end if you place its setpieces earlier, so I think there's a damned if you do, damned if you don't element here.


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## trappedslider (Sep 22, 2021)

looks  like it hits D+ nov 'Shang-Chi' comes to all Disney+ subscribers on November 12th | Engadget


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## Umbran (Sep 28, 2021)

Someone I know rented an entire theater for a showing with about a dozen people today, so I got to see it on the big screen.  It was awesome!



Rabulias said:


> Saw this the other day and really enjoyed it. Tony Leung does a great job, but the whole cast was excellent. Definitely a vastly different take on Shang-Chi from the _Master of Kung-Fu_ comics I used to read back in the day; they were more James Bond-ian affairs, IIRC.




Yes, but they are probably putting Iron Fist out to pasture in the MCU, and have now positioned Shang-Chi to take that role.  The whole "heart of the dragon" thing makes that pretty plain.


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## Umbran (Sep 28, 2021)

FitzTheRuke said:


> I can't believe I didn't notice that (the non-lethal weapons for the 10 Rings flunkies) before. I like to think about what movies _show_ you vs what they _tell_ you and see how it changes the story.




I have been told it is actually a cultural point.  He repeatedly notes that he is going to "burn the village to the ground".  He does _not_ say that he's going to kill them all.  Burning the village while the defeated villagers watch is a culturally relevant note.

Also, there's a point about his origins - the guy is a _thousand years old_.  So, his minions use things that are reminiscent of his original culture - updated crossbows and Asian weaponry.  Machine guns are... very European. 



FitzTheRuke said:


> This goes to explain some critiques that I've heard "Why did Wenwu send his mooks to _kill_ Shang-Chi if he wanted to reunite his family/" (A: Obviously he didn't. He sent them to remind Shaun who he really was.)




Well, yeah, he says as much.  People are questioning that?  Plus, if his men weren't actually trying to kill, then he'd not have even given his son a good workout.


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## FitzTheRuke (Sep 28, 2021)

Umbran said:


> I have been told it is actually a cultural point.  He repeatedly notes that he is going to "burn the village to the ground".  He does _not_ say that he's going to kill them all.  Burning the village while the defeated villagers watch is a culturally relevant note.



Interesting!



Umbran said:


> Also, there's a point about his origins - the guy is a _thousand years old_.  So, his minions use things that are reminiscent of his original culture - updated crossbows and Asian weaponry.  Machine guns are... very European.



Yeah, I prefer archaic weapons myself. I can see someone who's spent a thousand years participating in war seeing modern weapons as gauche. I mean, he's not stupid, I'm sure he understands how useful and powerful they are, but the old ways require more from the user. Maybe once they get good enough with staff weapons, they move on to blades, and eventually are allowed to use guns (but often won't bother by then). I dunno. There's more world-building that could be done - goes to show how good the world building was that I'd like to see more!



Umbran said:


> Well, yeah, he says as much.  People are questioning that?  Plus, if his men weren't actually trying to kill, then he'd not have even given his son a good workout.



Yeah, I read some complaints/nitpicks. I agree with you though.


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## Rabulias (Sep 28, 2021)

Umbran said:


> Yes, but they are probably putting Iron Fist out to pasture in the MCU, and have now positioned Shang-Chi to take that role.  The whole "heart of the dragon" thing makes that pretty plain.



Uh, ok. Not sure how you got Iron Fist involved from my post; the _Master of Kung-Fu_ comics were about Shang-Chi. Even Iron Fist was pretty "street level" in the comics, and was rarely (if ever) hobnobbing with the Avengers or Captain Marvel.


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## Umbran (Sep 28, 2021)

Rabulias said:


> Uh, ok. Not sure how you got Iron Fist involved from my post; the _Master of Kung-Fu_ comics were about Shang-Chi.




You said, "...they were more a James Bond affair."  I was responding with one reason why the MCU version isn't.



Rabulias said:


> Even Iron Fist was pretty "street level" in the comics, and was rarely (if ever) hobnobbing with the Avengers or Captain Marvel.




He chose to take on street-level issues while hanging out with Luke Cage, sure.  But then, in Secret Invasion, he downed a SHIELD helicarrier with a single punch.



Spoiler: And then there was this...










So, sure, street level.


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## Campbell (Sep 28, 2021)

Street level superheroes have always been something of a misnomer in Marvel anyway. Characters like Spiderman, Luke Cage, Ironfist, et. al. have always had the power to hang with the big boys. Their comics just focused on more personal and local stories.


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## Rabulias (Sep 28, 2021)

Umbran said:


> You said, "...they were more a James Bond affair."  I was responding with one reason why the MCU version isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah. I fell off the comics bandwagon around 1999, so it certainly looks like they amped up Iron Fist considerably since then, and I agree they seem to be drawing on that for inspiration for a powered-up Shang-Chi in the MCU.


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## Umbran (Sep 28, 2021)

Rabulias said:


> Ah. I fell off the comics bandwagon around 1999, so it certainly looks like they amped up Iron Fist considerably since then...




Well, this is hardly new.  In Iron Fist #1, back in 1975, Iron Fist went head-to-head with Iron Man, and neither one prevailed before someone intervened to tell them they were fighting over a misunderstanding.  His starting point in his own comic is "roughly equal to an Avenger". 

But yeah, since then, he has infused chi into an entire building to use it as a melee weapon against a... god, for lack of a better term.  He isn't a lightweight hero, any more than Luke Cage is.


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## Janx (Nov 13, 2021)

D+ released it. Finally got to see it.

Nice.

I think Shang Chi lied again. His mission to kill the last man who killed his mother?

That was Caty's grandfather. And he'd befriended her at the time to get close or some such.

Meat for future conflict between the two.


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## Ryujin (Nov 13, 2021)

I very much enjoyed it. Like many I could do without the overly muddy CGI-fest ending* but, overall, it was very good. It didn't follow what little I remember about the original comic back in the '70s but as with Spider-Man being switched from being bit by a radioactive spider to being fallout from gene splicing experiments, I can roll with it. If it works, I'm good.

Very glad that they didn't make Katy into a throw-away character who ends up hiding under the bed.

* I'm not against heavy use of CGI, but rather when it's used in a way that doesn't allow you to follow the action.


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## wicked cool (Nov 18, 2021)

It was better than black widow but its seriously flawed

-doesnt feel like a super hero movie. In fact it felt more like a fantasy film (more like say Avatar)

-they turned abomination into a animal clown. Really disapointed in that cameo

-Agree on the fathers powers/rings. This guy (im not even sure if we can use his villian name anymore) was a great super villian with multiple uses for the rings and yet he turns into a person with a magical cannon (more or less)

-very confused on second ending after credits? What is the sister doing . shes now with the orange haired guy training for what ?

-huge disney influence on the magical creatures etc. Felt more like something i would expect in a disney cartoon instead of a marvel movie

-dad uses non lethal force 99% of movie but his intentions were to kill his son with the water push

-the whole fight club-Sister has clearly the capitol to help but it never shows up until the after credit scene. 

-the sisters involvement-Felt like the director struggled with her role. Shes got the same access to the powers as he did and yet she feels much weaker at times  (you go kill dad i'm not up to it messaging even though in the ring she appears to be his equal)  

-I expected the person in the White mask outfit to be something more (special). Felt like there was a twist coming (why is he/she wearing that) when nobody else is . 

-the guy with the one hand gives this cryptic message on the bus and yet theres no real follow through on that. It was very menancing instead of im returning you to your dad?? the guys helping one hand man didnt feel like the same guys in the attack on the end

-at the end are they both turned into avengers? Wow did banner get old!

-the monster at the end was something out of Godzilla etc. Its behind this wall using clever tricks and once it escapes its just a soul sucking dragon with tentacles? I was expecting an Orcus type entity or something with charisma. Would have been 100X cooler if it first appeared as mom but then showed it true face etc  


theres good martial arts and effects to make it a decent action movie but it doesnt have the soul of a good movie
-felt nothing for the villian dying
-theres was no off wow im so glad they won feeling
-theres no edge of the seat moment where maybe he wont win 
-no tension really after the bus scene and even that wasnt great
-the old guy dies but hes such an unlikeable character nobody cares 




-Their mom. She has to give up her powers but she should have the same powers as her kids. She shouldnt have been beaten by i think were drug lords/gangs. It seemed like she was exiled and yet has this magical dragon puzzle which doesnt make any sense other than to convince her kids that dads not insane?  Dads got thousands of scrolls detailing how and yet moms the only 1 who left? Whose the family that he tells that shes just his friend in the begining? Didnt it feel like his grandmother?


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## Maxperson (Nov 18, 2021)

Umbran said:


> Yes, but they are probably putting Iron Fist out to pasture in the MCU, and have now positioned Shang-Chi to take that role.  The whole "heart of the dragon" thing makes that pretty plain.



The extradimensional village struck me as very similar to Kun Lun as well.


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## Maxperson (Nov 18, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> -doesnt feel like a super hero movie. In fact it felt more like a fantasy film (more like say Avatar)



It was an origin story.


wicked cool said:


> -they turned abomination into a animal clown. Really disapointed in that cameo



Agreed.


wicked cool said:


> -Agree on the fathers powers/rings. This guy (im not even sure if we can use his villian name anymore) was a great super villian with multiple uses for the rings and yet he turns into a person with a magical cannon (more or less)



Agreed.


wicked cool said:


> -very confused on second ending after credits? What is the sister doing . shes now with the orange haired guy training for what ?



She took over her father's organization and is in charge now.


wicked cool said:


> -huge disney influence on the magical creatures etc. Felt more like something i would expect in a disney cartoon instead of a marvel movie



Not Disney.  Chinese mythology.  It had the feel of mythical Chinese creatures, which would be appropriate for the movie.


wicked cool said:


> -dad uses non lethal force 99% of movie but his intentions were to kill his son with the water push



At that point Shang Chi committed to stopping his father from rescuing his beloved wife.  The woman who got him to give up 1000 years of  conquest and death.  She trumped him on the live/die scale.


wicked cool said:


> -the whole fight club-Sister has clearly the capitol to help but it never shows up until the after credit scene.



Agreed.


wicked cool said:


> -the sisters involvement-Felt like the director struggled with her role. Shes got the same access to the powers as he did and yet she feels much weaker at times  (you go kill dad i'm not up to it messaging even though in the ring she appears to be his equal)



The movie is not about her.  It's about Shang Chi.


wicked cool said:


> -I expected the person in the White mask outfit to be something more (special). Felt like there was a twist coming (why is he/she wearing that) when nobody else is .



He was the strongest minion.  It set him apart so that you knew this was the guy not to mess with.


wicked cool said:


> -at the end are they both turned into avengers? Wow did banner get old!



I don't think they were Avengers at the end.


wicked cool said:


> -the monster at the end was something out of Godzilla etc. Its behind this wall using clever tricks and once it escapes its just a soul sucking dragon with tentacles? I was expecting an Orcus type entity or something with charisma. Would have been 100X cooler if it first appeared as mom but then showed it true face etc



I was happy with it, but yeah, appearing as mom first would have been better.


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## Umbran (Nov 18, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> -doesnt feel like a super hero movie. In fact it felt more like a fantasy film (more like say Avatar)




That is a feature, not a bug.

If all the Marvel movies were "superhero movies", we'd get bored of them very quickly.  Instead, they often use "superhero" as a setting, rather than a genre.  So, Shang Chi is a martial arts fantasy, in a superhero setting.  Ant-Man is a heist movie, in a superhero setting.  The First Avenger is a war movie, in a superhero setting.  The Winter Soldier is a spy-thriller, in a superhero setting.  The Eternals is an epic drama, in a superhero setting.  And so on.


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Nov 19, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> -dad uses non lethal force 99% of movie but his intentions were to kill his son with the water push




I happened to watch Black Widow after watching Shang-Chi and guess what I saw there? The Widows using the exact same "non-lethal" electro-baton things to beat on Natasha. I wonder who it is that is supplying those to all the villains in the MCU?

As for most of your points, I liked them the way they were and am glad they did not line up with your preferences.

And for the final boss monster, with the name of Dweller-in-the-Dark, I was expecting something Cthulhu-like, with plenty of tentacles, and I was not disappointed.

Also, people should watch the behind-the-scenes episode of Marvel Studios Assembled for Shang-Chi. It is very informative.


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## Zaukrie (Nov 19, 2021)

I really enjoyed this movie a lot. Just fun and entertaining.


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## Rune (Nov 19, 2021)

Umbran said:


> Also, there's a point about his origins - the guy is a _thousand years old_.  So, his minions use things that are reminiscent of his original culture - updated crossbows and Asian weaponry.  Machine guns are... very European.



That didn’t stop them from using machine guns and Stark weaponry in _Iron Man_. But maybe that was a franchised branch?

Of course it could just be as simple as this: where the various films differ in genre, the rules of the MCU differ in minor ways to reflect it. 

This would also explain the super-human traits of the Black Widows that I’ve seen complaints about; that kind of physics-defying action is _exactly_ the kind of thing we’d see in any other super-spy action movie.


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## Paul Farquhar (Nov 19, 2021)

Rune said:


> That didn’t stop them from using machine guns and Stark weaponry in _Iron Man_. But maybe that was a franchised branch?



_Iron Man_ takes place whilst [insert villain name here] was out of the game playing happy families. Someone else was using his branding.


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## megamania (Nov 29, 2021)

Different but I enjoyed it


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Dec 7, 2021)

Looks like a sequel is confirmed, with the director signing on to write and direct the sequel. Also part of the deal is the making of a series for Disney+ that will be more of a comedy than the movies.


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## MGibster (Dec 7, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> -the sisters involvement-Felt like the director struggled with her role. Shes got the same access to the powers as he did and yet she feels much weaker at times (you go kill dad i'm not up to it messaging even though in the ring she appears to be his equal)



Shang-Chi was holding back in the ring because he didn't want to fight his sister.  And having grown up in his shadow with their father giving him all the attention, she wasn't his equal.


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## MGibster (Dec 7, 2021)

I really enjoyed the movie as well with it's biggest flaw being the CGI fight fest at the end.  It was just too over-the-top.  I liked the villain Wenwu and I appreciated his relationship with Shaun.  Throughout the movie, it was pretty clear that Wenwu was proud of his son and loved him.  At the end, he saved Shaun's life and voluntarily surrendered the rings knowing he was strong enough to handle them.  Admittedly this was after Shaun had already claimed them and then threw them as his father's feet (another cool move I thought).

Oh, and I just realized Bruce Banner wasn't in Hulk form during the end credits.


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## wicked cool (Dec 8, 2021)

MGibster said:


> I really enjoyed the movie as well with it's biggest flaw being the CGI fight fest at the end.  It was just too over-the-top.  I liked the villain Wenwu and I appreciated his relationship with Shaun.  Throughout the movie, it was pretty clear that Wenwu was proud of his son and loved him.  At the end, he saved Shaun's life and voluntarily surrendered the rings knowing he was strong enough to handle them.  Admittedly this was after Shaun had already claimed them and then threw them as his father's feet (another cool move I thought).
> 
> Oh, and I just realized Bruce Banner wasn't in Hulk form during the end credits.



he tried to kill his son?


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## MGibster (Dec 8, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> he tried to kill his son?



He is the villain after all.


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## Ryujin (Dec 8, 2021)

MGibster said:


> He is the villain after all.



The super villain equivalent of my father looking down my report card of almost straight As and A+s, to tell me that a B in gym class wasn't good enough. If he succeeds in killing him, then he clearly wasn't trying hard enough.


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## Rune (Dec 8, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> he tried to kill his son?



Did he though?


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## Tonguez (Dec 8, 2021)

wicked cool said:


> he tried to kill his son?



not really, he wanted to get rid of him so threw him in the lake - perhaps he knew that he'd survive, but thought it would give him enough time to open the gate and by bringing his wife home prove he was right


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## Herschel (Dec 8, 2021)

I rather enjoyed it. Heck, it made Awkwardfina charming rather than utterly annoying, which is a major accomplishment. I was even okay with the obligatory CGI fest ending because you know it's coming in a Marvel movie and this was at least a bit different.


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## wicked cool (Dec 9, 2021)

Tonguez said:


> not really, he wanted to get rid of him so threw him in the lake - perhaps he knew that he'd survive, but thought it would give him enough time to open the gate and by bringing his wife home prove he was right



he was most likely going to die but had a dragon intervene


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## DrunkonDuty (Dec 10, 2021)

I liked it. But put me in the camp of not really liking the final fight being between two big monsters. The battle between Shang Chi and Wenwu was the one that the movie set up, the one with the audience investment. Swapping it for the kaiju battle was, I feel, a mistake. And I love kaiju battles in general.

But that's the only gripe I had with it. I enjoyed the fight scenes. The plot was a classic. The cast very likeable. 

Oh and I loved Trevor Slattery being in it (also Morris the two bummed wombat.) That begs the question that, if the Youtube clip about Trevor being taken by the Ten Rings is now canon, are other Youtube clips now canon? Will Thor's flatmate Darryl appear in _Love and Thunder_? I hope so.


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