# [Pathfinder] Burnt Offerings



## CanadienneBacon

*Pathfinder -- Burnt Offerings*

Character Sheets
Playing the Game

*Number of Players*: 4-6
*Point Buy*: 15
*Level*: 1st
*Alignment*: No evil, CN will need a good backstory and must be accompanied by the intent to play well with others in the party
*Setting*: Varisia of Golarion
*Pantheon*: Open for consideration 
*Starting Gold*: Max for your chosen class
*Suggested Sourcebooks*: Pathfinder Core Rulebook, DMG, MM, Pathfinder Players' Guide, Dragon magazine material, Draconomicon, Book of Exalted Deeds, Unearthed Arcana, Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, Scarred Lands CS, Relics and Rituals I and II, Divine and Defeated, Deities and Demigods.*

*Game Pace*:  Leisurely.  I am a thorough DM but past experience has taught me that when I get too into D&D, I burn out.  This game will therefore entertain periods of lulls in activity.  If that's not for you, that's okay...but let this serve as fair warning.

*Please ask if there is something you're in love with that is not on the list. 

*Players Selected*:
Ambrus -- Taran, male Bronze Dragon
Walking Dad -- Sivan, male Varisian Paladin
Shayuri -- Talashia, female Varisian Sorceror (Air Elemental)
mfloyd3 -- Elyra, female Varisian Ranger (Archery)
jkason -- Tac, male Varisian Rogue
Merlin's Shadow -- Grokk, male Half-Orc Cleric (Torag)





***************************************************************************


_The following are introductory excerpts on Sandpoint from the Burnt Offerings module.  All credit and rights go to Paizo.com:_

[sblock=Region]Those who head north from Magnimar along the rocky coastline quickly find themselves in a peculiar country.  Fog drapes the rolling landscape, floating spectrally along damp and lonely moors.  Small woodlands grace the region, their tangled depths redolent of nettles and pepperwood and pine sap, while further inland, river valleys lined by majestic redwoods wind between ragged tors and limestone escarpments.  This vastness and the sense of isolation have earned the region its local name.  This is the Lost Coast.

Yet there are pockets of civilization along the Lost Coast.  Traditional Varisian campsites can be found in nearly every gulch and hollow along the cliff-lined reaches, and lonely houses sit upon bluffs now and then--domiciles for eccentrics or the rich seeking a bit of peace far from the bustle of Magnimar's streets.  Roadside inns grace the Lost Coast road every 24 miles or so, placed by virtue of the distance most travelers can walk given a day's travel.  Low stone shrines to Desna, goddess of wanderers and patron of the Varisians, give further opportunities for shelter should one of the all-too-common rainstorms catch the traveler unaware.  Given time, any of these seeds of civilization could bloom into a full-grown town, or even a city.  It's happened once already, along the shores of a natural harbor nestled among the cliffs some 50 miles northeast of Magnimar.  What was once a larger-than-normal Varisian campsite in the shadow of an ancient ruined tower has become the Lost Coast's largest town: Sandpoint.[/sblock]
[sblock=Approach to Sandpoint]As one approaches the town of Sandpoint, the footprint of civilization upon the Lost Coast grows more clear.  Farmlands in the outlying moors and river valleys grow more numerous, and the blue-green waters of the Varisian Gulf bear more and more fishing vessels upon its surface.  Passage over creeks and rivers is more often accomplished by wooden bridge than ford, and the Lost Coast Road itself grows wider and better-kept.  Sight of Sandpoint from either approach (south or east) is kept hidden by the large upthrust limestone pavements known as the Whistler's Tors, but as the final bend in the road is rounded, Sandpoint's smoking chimneys and bustling streets greet the traveler with open arms and the promise of warm beds, a welcome sight indeed for those who have spent the last few days alone on the Lost Coast Road.

From the south, entrance to Sandpoint is governed by a wooden bridge, while from the north a low stone wall gives the town a bit of protection.  Here, the Lost Coast Road passes through a stone gatehouse that is generally watched by one or two guards--the southern bridge is typically unattended.  Aside from the occasional goblin, the citizens of Sandpoint have traditionally had little worries about invasion or banditry--the region simply isn't populated enough to make theft a lucrative business.  Hanging from a bent nail at both the gatehouse and the southern bridge is a sign and a mirror--painted on each sign is the message: "_Welcome to Sandpoint! Please stop to see yourself as we see you!_"[/sblock]








[sblock=Sandpoint]Most of the buildings in Sandpoint are made of wood, with stone foundations and wood shingle roofs.  The majority are single-story structures, with a few noted exceptions.  The town is often thought of as two districts by the locals.  Uptown consists of the structures residing on the bluff abutting the open ocean that overlooks the lower portion of town.  Most of these buildings are relatively new, and the streets are open and less crowded.  The majority of the town's buildings can be found downtown, which grows increasingly crowded as available space is claimed by new arrivals.  Downtown is built on a gentle slope that runs from a height of about 60 feet above sea level to the west down to only a few feet above the waterline to the east and south.

Sandpoint Harbor is a fairlydeep natural harbor, 30 feet for most of its expanse, with sharply rising slopes near the shore.  The languid waters of the Turandarok River wind down from the hinterlands, skirting Devil's Platter to empty into the harbor--the river is often used to transport lumber harvested far upriver down to the local saw mill.  South of town rises another bluff on which Sandpoint's most affluent landowners have staked claims.

Only a few hundred feet north of town rises an upthrust spur of rocky land topped with a few trees--this is known as Chopper's Isle, once the home to Sandpoint's most notorious criminal.  A remote outcropping accessible only by flight or bya skilled climber, the locals now believe the isle to be haunted by Chopper's ghost.  Children often dare each other to go out to the isle's base at low tide and touch the barren cliff face that surrounds it, but no one's visited the top in years.

The sight that strike all visitors to Sandpoint at first is the ruins of the Old Light.  The original height of this tower is unknown, but those who have studied the ancient architecture of the crumbling remains estimate it might have stood more than 700 feet tall.  Today, less than a quarter remains.  The Old Light rises from sea level and is built into the face of a 120-foot-tall cliff, the tower extending another 50 feet above that level to culminate in ragged ruins.  The remaining shell is yet another reminder that neither the Chelaxians nor the Varisians are the first settlers of this land, yet apart from a few badly weathered carvings signifying that the peak of this tower once held a brilliant light, no insight to the tower's true purpose remains.

For five years, the faithful of Sandpoint have attended church in smaller wooden structures rebuilt after fire destroyed both the previous temple and Father Tobyn and his adopted daughter, the fairhaired and ethereally beautiful Nualia.  While the cathedral's new pastor Abstalar was helpful, kind, and wise, church wasn't the same.  Now, the new cathedral is finally done.  All that remains is for the Swallowtail Festival t renew the site's blessings from the gods and it will be as if the Sandpoint Fire had never occured.

The Swallowtail Festival begins promptly, as scheduled, on the first day of Autumn.  The square before the church quickly becomes crowded as locals and travelers arrive, and several merchant tents featuring food, clothing, local crafts, and souvenirs are there to meet them.  Following the re-dedication ceremony of the new Sandpoint Cathedral, the Sandpoint Theatre--run by local Cyrdak Drokkus--will present a brand new production of "The Harpy's Curse."  Local billboards hint that the lead role of Avisera the Harpy Queen shall be played by a mysterious diva actress, whom Cyrdak has busily been talking up as possessing pre-eminent beauty and preternatural talents to town locals.[/sblock]


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## Merlin's Shadow

I'd be interested in playing. Right now I'm thinking a half-orc cleric of a deity of war or justice. His passion would be protecting the downtrodden and confronting evil wherever it may be. 

Just to be clear, are we using the 3.5 PHB or the Pathfinder Beta? I'm also assuming you meant _May_ 30 and not April 30, correct?


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## Ambrus

Hi CanadienneBacon! Nice to see you around. I see you've moved to the mainland since the last campaign I played with you. I'm rather enamored with the new Pathfinder system and the Golarion setting and so am very interested in your proposed campaign.

Could you offer any clue as to the theme of the campaign; city intrigue, dungeon delving, high seas swashbuckling, etc. Taking into account the sources you listed, I'd be curious to know whether you'd consider a somewhat unorthodox player character using the rules put forth in Dragon Magazine 320.


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## Merlin's Shadow

Name: Grokk (no relation to Michael Valentine Smith )
Race: Half-Orc
Class: Cleric (War and Protection? Still thinking about domains
Align: NG
Feat: Divine Spontaneity (if PHB2 is permitted) otherwise...Spell Focus (Conc), Endurance, or Iron Will...Not too sure here, as well.
Skills: K/Relig, Sense Motive, Intimidate, Conc

Grokk grew up in a largish city as a fairly typical outcast. One of the few people to show him much in the way of kindness was a cleric at a local temple. This was the driving force that led Grokk to become a cleric. 

I don't have the Pathfinder Player's Guide (yet), but I can flesh out my background a little more once I get an idea of deities and the campaign in general.


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## Shayuri

Hey there!

I have been wanting to try a storm mage in Pathfinder for awhile now, and though we're starting at first level, this looks like a good game to do it with!

*Name*: Talashia
*Race*: Human
*Class*: Sorceror (Air Element)
*Alignment*: Chaotic Good
*Feats*: Spell Focus in evocation is likely, as is Spell Penetration. If you allow the Arcane Familiar feat from Complete Arcane, I'd be taking it in conjunction with Improved Familiar to get a little air mephit pal. Or maybe Leadership if you allow it, and don't want to go the familiar route.
*Skills*: Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge of magic and planes, and Spellcraft.
*Spell choices*: Blasty spells, defenses, battlefield control, and utility, more or less in that order. Some of that may be impacted by whether or not I'm the only arcanist.

Talashia is a _stormbairn_ (literally storm-born); a child born of a woman struck by lightning while pregnant. Her early life was a constant struggle to contain the elemental forces raging within her. Now that she has mastered them, she seeks to embrace them and transcend the limits of her mortality. Although possessed with a fierce temper, Talashia pursues this goal with some caution and an eye for long-term success. She can be bossy and overbearing at times, but has a genuinely caring and compassionate heart even if she isn't always good at showing it.


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## Walking Dad

The character is from my first try for this adventure. We game stopped before the end of the prelude.

Human paladin of Shelyn

[sblock=Stats]
Name: Sivan Calderon
Class: Paladin 1
Race: Human [Varisian]
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Lawful Good
Deity: Shelyn

Str: 16 +3 (5p.)              Level: 1 ..                      XP: 0
Dex: 13 +1 (3p.)             BAB: +1                           ....HP: 10 + 2 + 1 +6= 19
Con: 14 +2 (5p.)            CMB: +4/+8            .Dmg Red: -
Int: 12 +1 (2p.)              Speed: 20'             .Spell Res: -
Wis: 10 +0 (0p.)             Init: +1                        ...Spell Save: -
Cha: 14 +2 (5p.)            ACP: -1               ....Spell Fail: -
(Racial bonus on Str)

                      Base     Armor    Shld     Dex     Size      Nat     Misc      Total
Armor:  10                 +6                 +0                  +1         +0           +0           +0                17   
Touch: 11              Flatfooted: 16  

                   ---Base      Mod     Misc     Total
Fort:                                  2  +2                                        +0 +4
Refl:             0             +1                                        +0 +1
Will:            0        +0        +1          +1

Weapon
Glaive                              +4            1d10+6             20x3      

Languages: Common, celestial

Abilities:
Aura of good
Detect evil
Smite evil 1/day (+2 to hit, +1 damage)

Feats:
County Born, Overhead Chop, Defensive Combat Training


Skill Points: 4
Skills ---------                                                    Base  Mod    Misc    Class     Total
*Knowledge (Religion)              1          +1                           +3          +0 +5
*Diplomacy-----------                                               1          +2                           +3          +0 +5
*Craft--------------- 1 +1 +3 +0 +5
*Spellcraft----------                                            1          +1                           +3          +0 +5

Equipment: (240gp)
Glaive (8gp) (10lb)
Dagger (2gp) (1lb)
Spiked Gauntlet (5gp) (1lb)
Splint Mail (200gp) (45lb)
215gp

Backpack                  (2gp)    2lb
Holy Symbol (wooden)      1gp    --
Grappling Hook            1gp    4lb*
Traveler's clothes (free) (-)
4gp


Total Weight:68lb      Money:  21gp

                                          -----------Lgt    Med     Hvy    Lift    Push
Max Weight:    76      153    230    460      1,150

Age: 23
Height: 6'0"
Weight: 194lb
Eyes: Blue 
[/sblock]

[sblock=Background]
Gifted with a strong body and personality, Sivan was an oddity because of his strong lawful tendencies among his people, the Varisians.
Being also a strong lover of the arts, he was naturally driven to the teachings of Shelyn. As he tried to become part of her cleregy, the other priest soon realized, that he lacked the certain kind of wisdom to become a regular cleric. Instead, and noting his lawful tendencies, they urged him to become a paladin, protector of arts and artists alike.

Having formed a friendship with another 'odd' Varisian painter and would be wizard, Chaine, he choosed to stay with him in Sandport during his apprenticeship.






[/sblock]


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## CanadienneBacon

Merlin's Shadow said:


> Just to be clear, are we using the 3.5 PHB or the Pathfinder Beta? I'm also assuming you meant _May_ 30 and not April 30, correct?



We'll be using the 3.5 PHB.  And, yes, I did mean May 30, not April 30, for the cut-off date for character concepts.  Post edited.


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Could you offer any clue as to the theme of the campaign; city intrigue, dungeon delving, high seas swashbuckling, etc. Taking into account the sources you listed, I'd be curious to know whether you'd consider a somewhat unorthodox player character using the rules put forth in Dragon Magazine 320.



Howzit, Ambrus?

Burnt Offerings features wildnerness, dungeon delving, and _some_ town exploration.  High seas swashbuckling doesn't receive play in this particular adventure, so characters oriented toward the seas may not feel as utilized (though the main town and the some of the exploration do abutt the open ocean).

My collection of Dragon magazines is two hours north of me...what's in Dragon 320 that you in particular are considering?


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## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> Talashia is a _stormbairn_ (literally storm-born); a child born of a woman struck by lightning while pregnant.



Howdy, Shayuri.  Your character made me think of something I recently read and enjoyed, a book of juvenile fiction from the library, entitled _Troll Mill._ In the book, the author uses the middle English term _bairn _for infant.  The bairn in Troll Mill is half human, half seal...which I kind of thought would make for an interesting D&D character.


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## CanadienneBacon

Thanks, all, for your responses.  I haven't been on EnWorld for quite some time and in the time I've been away the site seems to have changed quite a bit in some respects.  I wasn't certain whether a 3.5 game would be well-received, so it's nice to see that there's interest in a former version of D&D.  If I don't reply to everyone's responses, please don't take it personally.  I'm purposefully keeping my posting light in order to avoid burn out.  Posts that ask questions, however, will receive a reply.  

If you've asked a question and haven't had a reply within in 24 hours, please re-post with a nudge.  Sometimes I inadvertantly miss things or don't realize there was a question due to the vagaries of Internet messageboards.


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## Rhun

I'm not expressing my interest in the game, since I'm already playing this Adventure Path in another, but wanted to say welcome back, CB! Hope all is going well.


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## Scott DeWar

I just wanted to say welcome back CB! i may only have 13 characters here on EnWorld, but that is pretty much my limit.

Tetsubo/ Scott DeWar


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## CanadienneBacon

Rhun said:


> I'm not expressing my interest in the game, since I'm already playing this Adventure Path in another, but wanted to say welcome back, CB! Hope all is going well.



All is well, thanks.  After leaving Hawaii, we are in Louisville, KY now.  Shannon (my husband) just finished his first year at seminary.  It's been great to see him start the journey of fulfilling the long-held dream of becoming a pastor...from Navy sailor to peacemaker is a pretty neat transition for him and for us.  For myself, I just graduated with my first degree, a BS in Information Systems Management, so that was also wonderful.  18 years in the making and a big load off my mind.  I have some ideas percolating for graduate studies for myself, but for the moment am enjoying working at a theological library and spending time with my family.

I hope you are well, too, Rhun.


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## Ambrus

I'm doing fine. I've been in a new relationship for the past year and am currently on the mend from a broken collar bone. It must be nice having your husband at home on a more regular basis than when he was out on tour for a stretch with the navy. How are your kids doing these days?

Sorry, I figured you'd have your dragon magazines at hand and could pick up the issue relatively easily. Number 320 first introduces the five metallic dragon species as 20-level base monster class progressions for use as player characters. I last played my titular gold dragon PC Ambrus a few years ago and greatly enjoyed it. I'm tempted to try another dragon PC if you'd consider it. Not sure what kind though; figured I'd pitch the idea before fleshing out a concept.


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## renau1g

Are you allowing the classes as is from the Pathfinder rules? They are pretty different from the 3.5e classes, especially the magic-users.


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Sorry, I figured you'd have your dragon magazines at hand and could pick up the issue relatively easily. Number 320 first introduces the five metallic dragon species as 20-level base monster class progressions for use as player characters.



Our girls are very well.  There are other families with children their age here on the campus at the seminary, so the children are outside all day when not in school.  They roam about on their bikes, dig in the sand, play, argue, make up, and play some more.  The curriculum in the school district is wanting, but the school and staff themselves are very fine.  We supplement math at home and have requested that the girls be placed in split grade-level classes next year in order to challenge each of them a bit more.

I think Dragon 320 came out right around the time of the Age of Worms campaign path, right?  

My vision for Burnt Offerings has the adventure set in a grimmer, grittier Golarion in which out-of-the-ordinary things are firmly out-of-the-ordinary and would be met with surprise and shock by most of the folk populating the town and the region.  PCs will therefore start with a 28-point buy but can expect to be special themselves (thus the relative depth of allowed supplements and non-core D&D material).  A PC blatantly visible as a dragon probably wouldn't mesh well with the setting, but a PC either fully dragon yet able to totally conceal his or her dragon features, or with partial (well-concealed) dragon traits might prove interesting.  Since the characters begin play at 1st level, creating a dragon PC who is capable of hiding his or her dragon traits might prove to be a sincere challenge--most concealment spells and skills come later on in a character's development.  Then again, I also know that you have a wealth of knowledge about D&D details and supplements that I lack, so if you know of something that you think would fit the bill, then by all means, forge ahead with it.  My primary concern is to avoid populating the setting with totally outlandish characters but to still (somehow) encourage player creativity and interest.


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## CanadienneBacon

renau1g said:


> Are you allowing the classes as is from the Pathfinder rules? They are pretty different from the 3.5e classes, especially the magic-users.



I'm allowing characters from the 3.5 PHB and the sourcebooks I mention in my originating post.  

If there's a Pathfinder rulebook out there, I don't own it and haven't read it, so I'd be very ill-equipped to moderate characters based on such a supplement, and you probably wouldn't want to play with me as your DM in such a case.  That said, I'm not entirely certain what you mean by "Pathfinder rules," so please clarify if you feel I've misunderstood your question.


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## Shayuri

Hoowaugh...I thought this was a Pathfinder game, using the Pathfinder Beta Rules. Heee...goodness.

CB, on Paizo's website there's a whole book...an alternate 3.5e PHB basically...that details the Pathfinder rules, which are basically 3.5e rules with some tweaks...though in some cases fairly significant tweaks.

I don't have the link handy at work, sadly...but it's a free download so it's easy to get.


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## Scott DeWar

if you go to piazo.com, you can get your very own copy of pathfinder RPG beta playtest, watermarked with yoour e-mail and fully useable for the purpose of playtesting it. I have a copy and I like the variations. I wish I had ore time or i would try and have a pathfinderized Syllorpheall, Lord high Inquisitor of Pelor, on loan from his immenance in Daroln City. Otherwise, I am very glad you have moved to the mainland, finished your degree, and your whole family is doing well.


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## renau1g

CanadienneBacon said:


> I'm allowing characters from the 3.5 PHB and the sourcebooks I mention in my originating post.
> 
> If there's a Pathfinder rulebook out there, I don't own it and haven't read it, so I'd be very ill-equipped to moderate characters based on such a supplement, and you probably wouldn't want to play with me as your DM in such a case.  That said, I'm not entirely certain what you mean by "Pathfinder rules," so please clarify if you feel I've misunderstood your question.




Sure, I was referring to the Pathfinder Beta Rulebook from Paizo available for free download. It appears that WalkingDad and Shayuri are using concepts from that book. Differences like in the way skills are calculated (and they've amalgamated a bunch of skills), racial bonuses are different, classes are pretty different than the core 3.5e rulebooks. i.e. WD's Paladin has racial bonus HP, a CMB score (replacing rules for grapple, trip, etc.) or Shayuri's Air Sorceror [from the elemental power source in the rulebook], granting a fly speed of 60' at 15th level, amongst other benefits.


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## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> CB, on Paizo's website there's a whole book...an alternate 3.5e PHB basically...that details the Pathfinder rules, which are basically 3.5e rules with some tweaks...though in some cases fairly significant tweaks.



Thank you for the prompt head's up.  I'll download the free version and will give it a cursory look, but reading through an entire rules supplement may prove to be outside the scope of what I willing to attempt for this game.  I've time today to do this task and will do so right away, so you may expect a firm yes or no on the Pathfinder beta rules from me within a few hours.


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## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> A PC blatantly visible as a dragon probably wouldn't mesh well with the setting, but a PC either fully dragon yet able to totally conceal his or her dragon features, or with partial (well-concealed) dragon traits might prove interesting.



Hm. An interesting challenge build-wise. Golds, silvers and bronzes eventually gain the ability to assume alternate forms and so can pass as humanoids and animals, but those only kick in at higher levels; 4th at the earliest IIRC. There are some classes' special abilities that could also disguise a dragon, but again those would only kick in at later levels.

Another disguise option would be to use a magic item. A _hat of disguise_ could probably change the appearance of a quadruped dragon (with its wings folded tightly along its back) sufficiently for it to pass as a cat if tiny-sized, a dog if small-sized or a riding dog if medium-sized. Naturally PCs don't normally start with such expensive items (a hat of disguise costs 1,800 gp), but it could be on loan; perhaps from a distant parent's hoard or a from a friendly and helpful religious or arcane institution in the vicinity. The hat's cost could be later reimbursed with the proceeds from adventuring.

Aside from that, the only suggestion I could offer to salvage the concept would be to try a stealth approach. That could be accomplished either through endeavoring to keep out of sight of the populace at large or by instilling false assumptions in the same. The former approach would likely involve playing a very small dragon (like a tiny-sized copper) and by hiding most of time; perhaps by nesting in another PC's backpack when out and about. The latter approach could be accomplished by trying to pass as a wizard/sorcerer PC's exotic familiar or pet.

Let me know if any of this sounds interesting/workable for you.


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## Rhun

CanadienneBacon said:


> Thank you for the prompt head's up.  I'll download the free version and will give it a cursory look, but reading through an entire rules supplement may prove to be outside the scope of what I willing to attempt for this game.  I've time today to do this task and will do so right away, so you may expect a firm yes or no on the Pathfinder beta rules from me within a few hours.





As someone who just barely designed their first Pathfinder PC using the Beta (for a game of Renau1g's actually), I can say that while it isn't TOO different from 3.x rules, there are quite a few changed in how things are done. Character design took quite a bit longer. I haven't seen all the other changes in actual play yet. What I have seen of the rules I do like though.


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus -- a reimbursable hat of disguise is acceptable.  Passing a tiny or small-sized metallic dragon off as a knight's cohort or as a wizard's familiar might also work, plus anytime I can foster bonds between players that are likely to result in stronger ties to the game and steady posting, I'm happy to do so.  Having a non-disguised dragon hide is probably the least attractive option from both a DM and a Player standpoint--you'd be too far from the action and neither of us would be likely to enjoy the work associated with distant affiliation to the main party.  Likewise, the other players would probably prefer that all players be present within the party.

I'd like to know what class you're considering, though.


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## CanadienneBacon

I'm skimming the 410-pg Pathfinder Rulebook Beta Playtest ruleset right now and am up to pg 14.  I note several key differences already: point-buy creation, racial ability score modifiers, and class features. 

There's no way to make both the 3.5 PHB and the Pathfinder beta rules compatibile with one another in terms of character creation; it seems to me that a person choses one or the other but not both as allowable sourcebooks during character creation.  I therefore pose the question to you lot--which book do you prefer to use when you sit down to create your character?


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## Ambrus

A dragon PC, as with all monster progressions, doesn't normally have any class. Heh heh... 

"Dragon" is its class; it gains hit dice, BAB and save increases, skill points, feats and its more racial draconic abilities as it increases in level. What it gains and at which level depends on the chosen subrace. A 1st level dragon PC normally has a 1d12 hit dice, +1 BAB, +2 to all saves and one bite attack (dealing damage according to its size). Spell-like abilities, breath weapons, additional attacks and flight are gained incrementally at later levels. The option to multiclass into other base classes only arises when the dragon PC reaches certain benchmark levels (i.e. those levels at which it's in sync with the Monster Manual's standard array of abilities for a dragon of a given age category (i.e. wymling, juvenile, very young, etc).

So, for example, a 6th level bronze dragon might first reach the status of _wyrmling_ and then, upon reaching 7th level have the option to continue advancing as a bronze dragon or to multiclass into some other base class, such as paladin or cleric. If it chooses to continue on as a bronze dragon it won't again gain the option to multiclass until it reaches 12th level, at which point it'll be a _very young_ bronze dragon.

If you want to know what role a dragon fulfills within the party, in my experience most dragons are much like rangers; they serve well as stealthy scouts and mobile dual-wielding melee fighters.


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> "Dragon" is its class [...] If you want to know what role a dragon fulfills within the party, in my experience most dragons are much like rangers; they serve well as stealthy scouts and mobile dual-wielding melee fighters.



I'm clearer now on what you're interested in playing, which is a good thing.  I hadn't been certain whether you wanted to play a full-on dragon or one of the dragon-kin races I've seen in various supplements.  I'm going to put you on hold for the moment while I read through the enormity that is the Pathfinder beta ruleset, and field questions from others.  Whether a dragon PC fits in with the party will largely depend upon what other character concepts the others float my way and whether I think I can feasibly work in a dragon into the game.  I'm not opposed to the idea, I just want to get a feel for what other concepts are presented.  The fastest way I can think to kill a game (other than DM absenteeism) is for players and/or their characters not to get along.  Party and player chemistry is a key issue.


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## Shayuri

Well, I'm open to either 3.5 or Pathfinder, though I find Pathfinder a bit more interesting...perhaps because it's still somewhat novel.

If you chose 3.5e though, I would probably change my character pitch however. My goal with a sorceror was to see how it played in Pathfinder, where the rules are significantly different for that class. Sorcerors starting at level 1 in PBP tend to take a loooooong time to really flower, due to the very limited spell selection and complete absence of any other class abilities.

Going from level 1 to 4 in a PBP can literally take a year or more of gaming, and then you get a grand total of 1 2nd level spell. 

That said, the game still seems neat, and you seem like an attentive and well-written GM, so I'd still be interested in playing.


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## Ambrus

Yeah, I meant an honest to goodness _metallic dragon_; that creature of legend with the biting teeth, rending claws, armored flesh, eldritch breath and virtuous heart. That's why I appreciate Dragon Magazine #320; it finally gave players the option to dispense with those wannabe dragon-kin poseurs and play a real *dragon*. 

I understand that dragon PCs aren't everyone's cup of tea, though neither are gnomes oddly enough. So, no problem. I'll stay tuned to see which way the wind blows. If it doesn't work out perhaps I'll pitch a different concept. Thanks for the consideration.


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## CanadienneBacon

I've skimmed the Pathfinder beta ruleset.  

For ability points, race/class, and skills/feats during character creation, we can use either the 3.5 PHB or the Pathfinder beta ruleset, but not both.  For equipment, combat, and spells and magic, we can probably overlay one supplement upon the other and continue to use both, but if the consensus is to incorporate both, I will more than likely stipulate a preference for one book over the other so that we may base the game on firmer footing.

I'm still in the process of making up my mind on the subject of whether or not to hold fast with the 3.5 PHB or run with the beta ruleset, so now's the time for you to speak up with your preference.  Happy contented players make for better gaming for everyone, so player preference will certainly receive heavy consideration.  I'll check back in late this evening to tally opinions.  There's no sense in letting the decision linger longer than that, not if we wish to commence play in any reasonable time frame.


----------



## mfloyd3

Hi --

I would be interested in playing.  I will post a concept later, after I have had time to look up the game world.  But my first impulse is to play a wizard, possibly a conjuration specialist.  I would be amenable to having a dragon pretending it was my character's familiar, as was suggested above.  We would need to work out a good backstory for that.

Since you are collecting votes on rules, I guess my preference would be to try Pathfinder, not least because it makes low-level arcane spell-casters much more playable (or at least it seems to, I've never tried it).  But I don't feel strongly about it.

Could anyone direct me to a basic intro to the Pathfinder universe that does not require my buying a whole sourcebook?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Burnt Offerings is the first adventure in the Rise of the Runelords adventure path series by Paizo.  Published in the fall of 2007.  We'll be running through Burnt Offerings (but probably not--though the door is open--the other modules in the Rise of the Runelords (RotRL) adventure path.  The RotRL Player's Guide is on my list of suggested sourcebooks.  Cost:  FREE .pdf, $2.00 for the softcover product.  Page count:  16 pp. Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide

If you've time and inclination, you might also care to download the Pathfinder beta ruleset.  The full hardcover product is set to appear later this year at a costof $50, but the beta ruleset is free.  Page count:  410 pp. 
Pathfinder RPG Beta Ruleset


----------



## ghostcat

I like the Pathfinder rules and would be interested in playing in another Pathfinder game. Currently can't decide whether to go with Chan Ti my Monk character from a dead game or introduce a Halfling Wizard.


----------



## Ambrus

As I mentioned originally, I'm rather enamored of the Pathfinder system. I even switched my tabletop Planescape campaign to it. I'm particularly anxious to see the final published version in August. I don't know how much it'd affect a dragon PC, but that's my vote. I've no problem with sticking with the 3.5 system though; they're designed to be largely interchangeable anyways.


----------



## renau1g

I'm also partial to Pathfinder, I'd like to try a magic-user as well.


----------



## Shayuri

I'd really like to try a Pathfinder sorceror. *puppy dog eyes*


----------



## CanadienneBacon

We'll use the Pathfinder RPG Beta Ruleset for character creation and will rely on it for most of our rule adjudication.  I'll leave the 3.5 PHB on the suggested sourcebooks list--it's got some equipment and feats that may still prove of use.  Please go with the PF RPG for nearly everything else, though.  

I flat-out can't afford the PF RPG bonafide hardcover when it comes out in August--not on my part-time salary at the moment, so while we may be tempted to switch after the August release, switching to the official PF RPG hardcover won't be a financial reality for me.  I hope you understand that going in to the game and don't later become distressed because we're still using the beta ruleset.

I'll also caveat that I shall be counting on whomever plays in this thing to gently point out to me when I make errors, particularly with regard to the beta ruleset, which I'll inevitably do due to lack of familiarity with specific mechanics.  My newness to the beta ruleset will also impart a potential time lag during DM posting if/when I look up mechanics in the .pdf.  

I notice that a great number of you have declared an interest in playing an arcane caster.  Awesome!  We'll also need wilderness- and dungeon-oriented characters and the standard complement of "core" characters--rogue, cleric, and fighter.  I'll be looking to form a relatively well-rounded party, so to ease the competition on yourselves, you might wish to consider something other than an arcane caster.  --> watch me say that and then _*no one*_ will officially offer up an arcane firebox!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Then again, a party entirely composed of wizards and sorcerors might be wildly interesting...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've updated the first post in the thread to include teaser information on Sandpoint and the surrounding locale.  Those of you who've played or DMed the module will already have seen the material, but it's my hope that those who haven't will find a bit of inspiration in the description that will help  create a character. 

I'll continue to update the originating post with teasers throughout the coming days, so if you're interested in reading more on the setting, please do follow along.


----------



## mfloyd3

I was going to go "arcane firebox," because the Pathfinder rules make that look really cool, but when I saw the world I decided I wanted a ranger instead.

Best,
Mark
____

Name: Elyra
Race: Human (Varisian)
Class: Ranger
Align: LG
Feat: Precise Shot,?
Skills: Survival, Spot/Listen, Knowl. Nature and Geography

Elyra is a tall Varisian woman with olive skin and close-cropped black hair.  She is broad-shouldered and well-built, but her chiseled features would be better described as handsome than beautiful.  Like most Varisians she wanders from place to place, making her way in the world as a string of odd jobs rather than plying a single trade.  She has worked variously as a hunter, guide, drover and sellsword.  Despite these changing careers, she has always chosen honest work, a decision that sometimes puzzles her family.

She left her family in the north when she received a good offer to work as a caravan guard.  A string of such jobs brought her to Sandpoint, where she waits, looking for the next good opportunity to come her way.

For all her wanderlust, Elyra is a hard-headed and practical woman.  She knows that the gods move in the world, that spellcasters wield twisted arcane powers, and exotic beasts lurk in the forgotten places of the world.  But these are only her problem if they cross her path.  For her, life is putting her feet on the road, food in the pot and, Erastil willing, coin in her purse.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

Canadienne Bacon, what are we looking at deity wise?


----------



## renau1g

CanadienneBacon said:


> Then again, a party entirely composed of wizards and sorcerors might be wildly interesting...




Oh it certainly is:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/249118-whirtlestaffs-wizards-academy-revisited-ic-2-a.html


----------



## Ambrus

Shayuri said:


> I'd really like to try a Pathfinder sorceror. *puppy dog eyes*





CanadienneBacon said:


> We'll use the Pathfinder RPG Beta Ruleset



I knew it was in the bag once Shayuri brought out the puppy dog eyes. No one resists the puppy dog eyes!


CanadienneBacon said:


> Then again, a party entirely composed of wizards and sorcerors might be wildly interesting...



The same thought occured to me. A themed campaign with an adventuring coven on mages could be interesting.


----------



## Walking Dad

Coven of mages would be cool, too. I hope playing a paladin in your grittier vision of Golarion will not break the mood.

Edit:
The Pathfinder Rules are also online:

http://pfogc.com/


----------



## renau1g

Walking Dad said:


> Coven of mages would be cool, too. I hope playing a paladin in your grittier vision of Golarion will not break the mood.
> 
> Edit:
> The Pathfinder Rules are also online:
> 
> pfogc: Main




Well we'd need _someone_ to keep us from getting splattered.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Merlin's Shadow said:


> Canadienne Bacon, what are we looking at deity wise?



You'll want to take a look at the pantheon in the Rise of the Runelords Players Guide.  It's available as a free .pdf download from paizo.com.  The pantheon is on page 7 of the Players Guide .pdf.  The link below will take you to the download page.

Rise of the Runelords Players Guide


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Name: Elyra
> Race: Human (Varisian)
> Class: Ranger
> Align: LG
> Feat: Precise Shot,?
> Skills: Survival, Spot/Listen, Knowl. Nature and Geography
> 
> Elyra is a tall Varisian woman with olive skin and close-cropped black hair.  She is broad-shouldered and well-built, but her chiseled features would be better described as handsome than beautiful.  Like most Varisians she wanders from place to place, making her way in the world as a string of odd jobs rather than plying a single trade.  She has worked variously as a hunter, guide, drover and sellsword.  Despite these changing careers, she has always chosen honest work, a decision that sometimes puzzles her family.
> 
> She left her family in the north when she received a good offer to work as a caravan guard.  A string of such jobs brought her to Sandpoint, where she waits, looking for the next good opportunity to come her way.
> 
> For all her wanderlust, Elyra is a hard-headed and practical woman.  She knows that the gods move in the world, that spellcasters wield twisted arcane powers, and exotic beasts lurk in the forgotten places of the world.  But these are only her problem if they cross her path.  For her, life is putting her feet on the road, food in the pot and, Erastil willing, coin in her purse.




This is a nice character!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thus far I'm seeing two male protectors (half-orc cleric and human paladin) and three women (two casters and one ranger).  You'd probably get a lot of rp mileage out of the tension that would result between the protectors and the arcane casters, plus you'd probably get some interesting dramatic tension between the female ranger and the female arcane casters.  

Cool, you guys.


----------



## Ambrus

So is that the party then? Should I pitch some other character concept?


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> This is a nice character!




Glad you liked her.  Class-wise, if we don't get a rogue, she could be rewritten as a Scout (from Complete Adventurer).  Scouts have the Trapfinder ability, so we'd be covered there, and I could buy her the Track feat.  The net result would be a really good "skill monkey," which suits me just fine.  And that could increase the tension between the down-to-earth trail guide and the wielders of eldritch power.

Are you familiar with the Scout class?  I don't think significant changes would be needed for an upgrade to Pathfinder.  I'd lobby for going from a d8 to a d10 hit die, but I don't feel strongly about it.

Anyway, let me know your thoughts, and let's see how the composition of the party shakes out.  I'm happy to go either way with the character.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> So is that the party then? Should I pitch some other character concept?




Yes.  I've amended the originating post (OP) to reflect final party composition and have closed recruiting early.  What can I say, I liked what I saw.

I have you down to play a metallic dragon because that was your stated first interest.  In perusing the list of character concepts, which I briefly list in the OP, you can see that there is still some wiggle room for your concept.  A noted gap in party composition is the role of rogue/trapfinder.  You can fill that role if you like or you can elect to forego it--the party has healing, figting, and magic well-covered.  If we have to do without "skill monkey," so be it.  Every party is unique, and I'm fine with things as is.

Please play what you like and are interested in playing, but please also consult with the rest of the party to see how you can best dovetail your character to the other characters.  Dragons tend to be show-stoppers.  In the interest of fairness, I prefer if you create a character that won't constantly steal the spotlight.  I also prefer you to not have to hide and lie in wait all the time, so a Hat of Disguise is probably on order (unless you can manuever some other way to disguise your dragony goodness at low levels).  I'll work out compensation for the Hat to the rest of the party in a day or two.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Are you familiar with the Scout class?



I am familiar with the Scout, yes.  I don't own Complete Adventurer, but I've read through it (though it's been a while).  I DMed a Scout in a tabletop game in 2006/2007.  

I think, for the moment, you should leave Elyra as is.  Let's have Ambrus and renau1g flesh out characters, then we'll see where we're at.  If, in watching things develop, you feel strongly pulled to make alterations, we'll have you do so.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

ALL -- please note the 15 point buy.  The PF RPG uses a different point buy scale than the 3.5 PHB.  

If you haven't downloaded the free beta version of the PF RPG, please do so.  If you're unable to download it, contact me via wlburford@hotmail.com, put Burnt Offerings in the title of your e-mail so I know it's not spam, and we'll work something out in private.

I haven't begun to vet stats yet, so if you need to make alterations based on the allowed point buy and the stipulations of the PF RPG, now's the time.


----------



## Shayuri

Hurrah!

I've wanted to try Talia in Pathfinder for ages now!

Thanks!

I'll get stats posted asap.

And I think we should get some kind of group connection going. Perhaps the arcanists are coming up from that large city to the south to investigate odd magical happenings in the Lost Coast and we hooked up with the rest of you because you had a common destination...sort of like those road trip callboards in universities...

Or maybe one or more of us have ties, family or friendship or similar...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Table 2-1: Ability Score Costs
Score Points 
7 –4 
8 –2 
9 –1 
10 0 
11 1 
12 2 
13 3 
14 5 
15 7 
16 10 
17 13 
18 17


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> I think we should get some kind of group connection going.



Capital idea.  Make that _very_ strong ties.  If Ambrus is going with his dragon concept, you'll need strong ties to keep the game running smoothly.


----------



## renau1g

Shayuri said:


> Hurrah!
> 
> I've wanted to try Talia in Pathfinder for ages now!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> I'll get stats posted asap.
> 
> And I think we should get some kind of group connection going. Perhaps the arcanists are coming up from that large city to the south to investigate odd magical happenings in the Lost Coast and we hooked up with the rest of you because you had a common destination...sort of like those road trip callboards in universities...
> 
> Or maybe one or more of us have ties, family or friendship or similar...




HMmm... well I think playing a magic-user, maybe I'll go with a sorceror as well, perhaps even a different elemental bloodline to add some competition amongst our PC's as to who's elemental is "stronger/better"... hmmmm or perhaps a wizard who's both jealous and envious at the ease of your powers, whilst he/she was stuck spending years to learn even a minor cantrip.


----------



## Shayuri

I think it'd be really cool to have a sorceror/wizard thing going.

With 15 point buy, Talashia will have an Int of just 10, tops. So you can be on her case about being a 'dullard' or something...while secretly envying her Charisma of 18 and how easily she gets her way, and the natural way she wields her powers.

She on the other hand can scoff at your nerdiness, while feeling insecure that you know so much more than she, and have access to so many different spells.


----------



## renau1g

I always liked transmutation magic and was thinking it might be fun, either that or a universalist...


----------



## Ambrus

Yay, I made the cut! I didn't expect it would be settled that quickly. Thanks for the consideration CB.

Unfortunately, a dragons isn't well suited to fulfilling the role of rogue/trapfinder since they don't have most of the rogue's key skills as class skills; probably because, as reptiles, they lack the fine manual dexterity for proficient tool use. If it's a crucial niche then I'd suggest going with mfloyd3's proposed character revisions. Otherwise I could come up with an altogether different character to better fit the bill.

I've got a few ideas for fitting in with the group. A righteous dragon may have come to be tied to a religious institution or order in the area and so may be linked to our cleric or paladin characters that way. On the flip side, as eldritch dragon can naturally be tied to fellow practitioners of the arcane arts such as our wizard or sorcerer PCs. Lastly, depending on the region's ties to the ancient past, a scholarly dragon might naturally gravitate towards a group with an interest in exploring local ruins. Mixing the three ideas to some degree might also be feasible and particularly fruitful.

I'm curious to acquire and read more about the particulars of Golarion dragonkind and how they might differ from standard D&D dragons. To that end I hope to get my hands on Paizo's _Pathfinder Chronicles: Dragons Revisted_ supplement within the next few days to read through it. At a glance, Sandpoint being a small community on the coast, it'd seem that bronzes are the most likely metallics to be found in the area.

I'm also anxious to try tying my character to Sandpoint's background if somehow possible. To that end I've skimmed through some online material about the place and a few quick initial ideas sprang to mind. Assuming that you're more familiar with the locales and their back stories CanadienneBacon, I was wondering if you could give me some feedback on these ideas.[sblock=CanadienneBacon]*The New Cathedral:* I thought that, if entrusted to the righteous clergy of the cathedral as a hatchling, lairing there might be appropriate and fun way to hook up with other faithful PCs. With a hat of disguise a hatchling could hide amongst the decorative stone gargoyles and so serve as a secret guardian for the place while learning about local humanoid society and culture. 

*The Sandpoint Theatre:* Seems like an interesting place for a quirky and theatrically-minded brass or copper dragon to secretly lair; haunting the place à la the _Phantom of the Opera_ while keeping a curious eye on performances and those patrons who come to watch them. It might also serve as an interesting justification for how the dragon came to have appropriated his _hat of disguise_ and why he'd enjoy masquerading as an animal amongst the local populace. Depending on Cyrdak's background and personality, he may be a willing accomplice to the dragon's residency and deception.

*The Rusty Dragon Inn:* What can I say; this place seems tailor made to house a wily dragon in plain sight. I don't know what it or its current owner's back story is, but the big rusty dragon statue on the roof could make a dandy lair for a small dragon if it were hollow. Perhaps the place was originally built/financed by a cosmopolitan draconic ancestor and my character's occupancy is merely a legacy that the current proprietor must accept if she wishes to continue running the place without interference.

*The Old Light:* A mysterious ruin next to the water; possibly a great place for a scholarly bronze dragon to secretly lair. Depending on its layout, perhaps there's a small sea cave/flooded basement hidden beneath the ruins somewhere.

Naturally, my dragon could have some kin amongst the locale populace if there are any sorcerers with draconic ancestry in the area. That might help establish long term relations within the community; my hatchling could simply be "staying with relatives" in the area so to speak.

Anyway, these are just ideas off the top of my head. Let me know if anything in particular seems to jive well with Sandpoint's or its residents' background in the module. At this point I'm still aiming to flesh out relationships and ties before settling on the dragon's exact subrace and build.[/sblock]


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> You'll want to take a look at the pantheon in the Rise of the Runelords Players Guide.  It's available as a free .pdf download from paizo.com.  The pantheon is on page 7 of the Players Guide .pdf.  The link below will take you to the download page.
> 
> Rise of the Runelords Players Guide



Awesome! I'll check it out and get my deity/domains nailed down. 

Background wise, since my character is inclined toward protecting people, what if he stood up for a skinny mage p) at some point and then befriended them?


----------



## mfloyd3

As far as getting Elyra into the act, perhaps she could come in through a connection with the cleric or paladin's church?  She's fairly civic minded, and would chip in for a good cause.  

Here's a possible scenario:  There was a missing child in Sandpoint a few months ago, and the church organized a search party.  Even though she was just a transient in town, Elyra volunteered, and wound up serving in a party with one or both of the party's religious characters.  Another group found the child, but Elyra hit it off with one or the other characters and makes it a habit to drop by and say hello when she is in town.  Thoughts?

I'd rather have her have a connection to the religious figures.  I picture her as being a bit put off by arcane power, and I'd rather that came out in play.  But we can work it another way if necessary.

CB, let me know what you want to do re: Ranger vs. Scout.  I'm happy to do either -- The ranger will be more combat effective, and the scout a trapfinder/better skill monkey.  I can use an identical backstory in both cases, so nothing would be changed as far as social interactions or group dynamics.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

*Caution: long post!*



Ambrus said:


> Unfortunately, a dragons isn't well suited to fulfilling the role of rogue/trapfinder since they don't have most of the rogue's key skills as class skills; probably because, as reptiles, they lack the fine manual dexterity for proficient tool use. If it's a crucial niche then I'd suggest going with mfloyd3's proposed character revisions. Otherwise I could come up with an altogether different character to better fit the bill.



I've re-read the module.  There are one or two places in which trapfinding will be critical but overall I wouldn't deem trapfinding to be absolutely essential to successfully conclude the adventure.  Please sally forth with your dragon concept.  I've got a workaround lined up for mfloyd3, which I'll address with him in a moment.



Ambrus said:


> I've got a few ideas for fitting in with the group. A righteous dragon may have come to be tied to a religious institution or order in the area and so may be linked to our cleric or paladin characters that way. On the flip side, as eldritch dragon can naturally be tied to fellow practitioners of the arcane arts such as our wizard or sorcerer PCs. Lastly, depending on the region's ties to the ancient past, a scholarly dragon might naturally gravitate towards a group with an interest in exploring local ruins. Mixing the three ideas to some degree might also be feasible and particularly fruitful.



ALL PLEASE READ:  If I may be so bold as to put my finger in the party development pie, I have an idea that may work.  The opening scene of the adventure pans to the Swallowtail Festival in Sandpoint.  The Swallowtail Festival this particular year has two purposes, the first of which is to commemorate the first day of Autumn.  The second purpose is to bless and re-dedicate the Sandpoint Cathedral (which itself venerates not just one but six deities).  The Sandpoint Cathedral burned five years ago, so the re-dedication ceremony will be ecumenical and of relative import to multiple faiths.  

I propose that your group be selected as emissaries to represent various religious, political, or academic organizations from throughout Golarion.  The Sandpoint Cathedral venerates six deities, so it's appropriate that different faiths and different traditions would desire to send a representative to attend the ceremony.  The cleric and paladin, for example, might have been independently tasked to travel with and protect the coven of arcane magic-users, as well as represent their parent organization at the re-dedication ceremony.  The sorceror/s and mage/s might be from the same institution or different institutions, but could be traveling to Sandpoint to observe the seven ancient standing stones at the Sandpoint Cathedral (untouched by the fire), participate in the goodwill re-dedication ceremony, and/or liaison with Sandpoint's Turandarok Academy--the town academy established for the primary school education of local children and orphans.  

The Turandarok Academy has, oddly enough, a veritable reliquary of oddments collected by the headmaster.  Perhaps the oddments in the Academy's museum have attracted outside interest?  Or perhaps some of the realm's wiser sages desire to forge a new relationship with the Academy in order to establish a magic school in Sandpoint (and, as many mages are power-hungry schemers, perhaps later use the Academy as a launch-point for some other nefarious goal)?  Whatever, the case, in this scenario, most of you would be outsiders assigned to travel together to Sandpoint to attend the re-dedication ceremony.  

The ranger Elyra might be local and could have been commissioned as a mercenary hire to escort the group from a large starting point city to Sandpoint.  The dragon (played by Ambrus) would have been independently assigned to serve as liaison between the holy order members of the party (the cleric and paladin) and the arcane members of the party (Shayuri and renau1g).  In this scenerio, we have several interesting factions that can come together in interesting ways off and on throughout the adventure...at some point, we might see the group dividing based on gender, while at other points we might see the group dividing based on religious/non-religious affiliation.  Throughout, there's the dragon and the local ranger to serve as intra-party peacekeepers.

We have a lot to work with here, so please don't necessarily feel that you have to run with the idea I've laid out above.  If Ambrus's dragon is from Sandpoint, a point about which he and I are in discussion, it could also be that the dragon and the air elemental sorceror to be played by Shayuri could share blood ties.  And, if the lot or you (or most of you) desire to be Sandpoint natives, we can certainly work that idea in as well.  Food for thought.



Ambrus said:


> I'm also anxious to try tying my character to Sandpoint's background if somehow possible. To that end I've skimmed through some online material about the place and a few quick initial ideas sprang to mind. Assuming that you're more familiar with the locales and their back stories CanadienneBacon, I was wondering if you could give me some feedback on these ideas.[sblock=CanadienneBacon]*The New Cathedral:* I thought that, if entrusted to the righteous clergy of the cathedral as a hatchling, lairing there might be appropriate and fun way to hook up with other faithful PCs. With a hat of disguise a hatchling could hide amongst the decorative stone gargoyles and so serve as a secret guardian for the place while learning about local humanoid society and culture. _This idea is feasible and would work.  It would be convenient to have a liaison to have escorted the ranger to a larger city to pick up the party to escort them back to Sandpoint for the ceremony I describe above.  With regard to your other ideas, see my other comments below._
> 
> *The Sandpoint Theatre:* Seems like an interesting place for a quirky and theatrically-minded brass or copper dragon to secretly lair; haunting the place à la the _Phantom of the Opera_ while keeping a curious eye on performances and those patrons who come to watch them. It might also serve as an interesting justification for how the dragon came to have appropriated his _hat of disguise_ and why he'd enjoy masquerading as an animal amongst the local populace. Depending on Cyrdak's background and personality, he may be a willing accomplice to the dragon's residency and deception.
> _This idea sounds like the most fun and would work.  Cyrdak would delight in the deception of maintaining a dragon.  The idea also neatly explains the Hat of Disguise, which is appealing to me.  The difficulty, however, becomes how and why your dragon comes to be affiliated with the party traveling to Sandpoint to attend the re-dedication ceremony.  If the dragon were tasked by Cyrdak to perform at the ceremony as part of a theatre troupe, that'd be one workaround for how to include the dragon in the group.  I was, however, hoping to hand your dragon the role of party peacekeeper.  My feeling is that we'll need some method of making sure the dragon has a plausible and lasting reason to adventure with the party._
> 
> *The Rusty Dragon Inn:* What can I say; this place seems tailor made to house a wily dragon in plain sight. I don't know what it or its current owner's back story is, but the big rusty dragon statue on the roof could make a dandy lair for a small dragon if it were hollow. Perhaps the place was originally built/financed by a cosmopolitan draconic ancestor and my character's occupancy is merely a legacy that the current proprietor must accept if she wishes to continue running the place without interference.
> _The proprietor used to be an adventurer herself, so there might be fertile ground there for an explanation how she came to be involved in the inn and the dragon's association.  In this scenario, the dragon would either known and beloved by the Sandpoint population (or at least well-tolerated), or conversely, its presence could be a well-hidden secret._
> 
> *The Old Light:* A mysterious ruin next to the water; possibly a great place for a scholarly bronze dragon to secretly lair. Depending on its layout, perhaps there's a small sea cave/flooded basement hidden beneath the ruins somewhere.
> _This is also possible.  Would you, in this scenario, be hidden or known to the locals?_
> 
> Naturally, my dragon could have some kin amongst the locale populace if there are any sorcerers with draconic ancestry in the area. That might help establish long term relations within the community; my hatchling could simply be "staying with relatives" in the area so to speak.
> 
> Anyway, these are just ideas off the top of my head. Let me know if anything in particular seems to jive well with Sandpoint's or its residents' background in the module. At this point I'm still aiming to flesh out relationships and ties before settling on the dragon's exact subrace and build.
> _If the sorceror elects to be from Sandpoint and not from elsewhere in the realm, this is a potential point of entree, I agree.  In this scenario, you and the sorceror might share blood ties. _[/sblock]






Merlin's Shadow said:


> Background wise, since my character is inclined toward protecting people, what if he stood up for a skinny mage p) at some point and then befriended them?



This might imply long-standing friendship, which is desirable since it leads to better party cohesion.  You might address Shayuri and renau1g to see what they're thinking.



mfloyd3 said:


> As far as getting Elyra into the act, perhaps she could come in through a connection with the cleric or paladin's church?  She's fairly civic minded, and would chip in for a good cause.
> 
> Here's a possible scenario:  There was a missing child in Sandpoint a few months ago, and the church organized a search party.  Even though she was just a transient in town, Elyra volunteered, and wound up serving in a party with one or both of the party's religious characters.  Another group found the child, but Elyra hit it off with one or the other characters and makes it a habit to drop by and say hello when she is in town.  Thoughts?



Sounds like I need to do a write-up in my OP about the Swallowtail Festival, which is the annual festival commemorating the first day of Autumn.  I think after you read about the festival, you might perhaps have some more concrete ideas.  



mfloyd3 said:


> I'd rather have her have a connection to the religious figures.  I picture her as being a bit put off by arcane power, and I'd rather that came out in play.  But we can work it another way if necessary.



Sounds good.  I like the rp mileage you'd get out of that.



mfloyd3 said:


> CB, let me know what you want to do re: Ranger vs. Scout.  I'm happy to do either -- The ranger will be more combat effective, and the scout a trapfinder/better skill monkey.  I can use an identical backstory in both cases, so nothing would be changed as far as social interactions or group dynamics.



Looking over the various encounters in the module, you'd be better served by sticking with Ranger.  We'll want your character to have Disable Device as a class skill, though.  Please add Disable Device to your ranger's class skill list for the purpose of this game, and distribute skill points as you see fit.  Your points may end up more thinly spread, which in the end is likely to prove sufficient balance for the addition of the class skill.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

There is an update containing descriptive text on the region, the approach to Sandpoint, and Sandpoint itself in the OP of this thread.  Some of the descriptive text may prove beneficial for you during character creation.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

For your viewing pleasure, the OP has now been updated to include an image of the map of Sandpoint as it appears in the adventure module.  Let me know if you're unable to view the image embedded in the OP.

There is also now an attachment affixed to the OP.  For those who wish to download the map, I've created a .doc of the map of Sandpoint and tacked it on to the OP.

I'll chop the OP down to size tomorrow morning by putting Part 3 of the descriptive text and the map of Sandpoint in spoiler tags.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> The dragon (played by Ambrus) would have been independently assigned to serve as liaison between the holy order members of the party (the cleric and paladin) and the arcane members of the party (Shayuri and renau1g).



Keep in mind that any 1st level dragon is a mere hatchling, not terribly long out of the egg. Even though a hatchling dragon is intelligent, possesses inborn racial knowledge (including language) and is supernaturally precocious, they're still infants with a lot to learn about the world. I don't know if anyone would entrust one with significant diplomatic responsibilities. 


CanadienneBacon said:


> ...at some point, we might see the group dividing based on gender...



 Um... Why?
[sblock=CanadienneBacon]Do you have any preference as to the dragon's subrace? Does any particular draconic color or archetype suggest itself to you for this adventure? Bronzes are the most likely to settle in a temperate coastal region though silvers are the most gregarious and most likely to remain with humanoids for extended periods of time. Silvers gain the ability to adopt humanoid form as early as 2nd level. If you'd rather skip the _hat of disguise_ idea then I suppose you could choose to fudge a bit and have a silver start with the ability to assume a single humanoid form at 1st level. On the other hand, playing a young chromatic dragon, such as a red or blue who, having been hatched amongst humanoids, is growing up to be unusually kindhearted and sociable could make for an interesting characterization. Imagine a naive young red dragon who doesn't understand why everyone he meets expects him to be a rampaging monster.

I rather like the latter idea. Hm.


CanadienneBacon said:


> *The Sandpoint Theatre:* _The difficulty, however, becomes how and why your dragon comes to be affiliated with the party traveling to Sandpoint to attend the re-dedication ceremony. If the dragon were tasked by Cyrdak to perform at the ceremony as part of a theatre troupe, that'd be one workaround for how to include the dragon in the group._



Seems a bit roundabout. In this case the goal is merely to have the dragon be at the cathedral so as to meet the party. The simplest reasoning is that the dragon has come to watch the ceremony same as every other curious local. He could be observing while remaining disguised as a decorative gargoyle. It's hard to figure out what might prompt him to reveal himself to the party without knowing what'll happen at the ceremony though.


CanadienneBacon said:


> _I was, however, hoping to hand your dragon the role of party peacekeeper. My feeling is that we'll need some method of making sure the dragon has a plausible and lasting reason to adventure with the party._



You seem to be anticipating all sorts of conflict within the party, though I'm not certain why. The simplest motivation for a young dragon to remain in the company of an adventuring party is treasure. Even righteous dragons have an inborn desire to build a hoard and adventurers seem to have a knack for finding loot. Easy peasy. 


CanadienneBacon said:


> *The Rusty Dragon Inn:* _The proprietor used to be an adventurer herself, so there might be fertile ground there for an explanation how she came to be involved in the inn and the dragon's association. In this scenario, the dragon would either known and beloved by the Sandpoint population (or at least well-tolerated), or conversely, its presence could be a well-hidden secret._



It'd be interesting to flesh out the relationship between the ex-adventurer proprietor and the absentee draconic parent. Perhaps they were adventuring companions. Hm...


CanadienneBacon said:


> *The Old Light:* _This is also possible. Would you, in this scenario, be hidden or known to the locals?_



All of my suggestions were based upon the notion that the dragon's existence was to be kept a secret from Sandpoint's population at large. Have you reconsidered that stipulation?


CanadienneBacon said:


> _In this scenario, you and the sorceror might share blood ties._



Possibly, but another idea that occurred to me was based on the sorcerer's proposed backstory in which the mother was struck by lightning. A bronze or blue dragon's lightning breath might have been the inadvertent source of power that engendered the unborn offspring with sorcerous might.[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri

Stepping in quickly to address some ideas as they come up, and add a few more to the brew. 

1) I was thinking Talashia might have originally come from Sandpoint. That'd give her a nice in-character reason to come back, even though the explicit purpose of arcane research isn't necessarily something she'd be drawn to...unless it was something she thought might advance her agenda of elemental transcendence. She'd be in Sandpoint now on business too, of course, with the wizard. She would have attended a mage school to learn magical theory, and to gain control of her power.

2) I am not a fan of the dragon breath thing. I like the idea that the lightning bolt was the result of a storm...that she's 'storm-born.' That said, nothing says it has to be a _natural_ storm.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Keep in mind that any 1st level dragon is a mere hatchling, not terribly long out of the egg. Even though a hatchling dragon is intelligent, possesses inborn racial knowledge (including language) and is supernaturally precocious, they're still infants with a lot to learn about the world. I don't know if anyone would entrust one with significant diplomatic responsibilities.



"Entrust" could also be interpreted to mean "send away on a dangerous mission in order to remove a potential foe and/or take care of other cryptic ill-understood dragon plot."

Regarding why the group might (emphasis "might") be inclined to divide on certain issues along gender lines...gender is, at times, a natural dividing line when it comes to circumstantial opinion regarding a given situation. So is political alliance, religious affiliation, hair color, sword type, fighting style, any any number of random "dividing lines."  My point here is that a mixed gender party is a good thing and that we may end up getting some nice roleplaying on all sides out of the deal.
[sblock=Ambrus]







> Do you have any preference as to the dragon's subrace? Does any particular draconic color or archetype suggest itself to you for this adventure? Bronzes are the most likely to settle in a temperate coastal region though silvers are the most gregarious and most likely to remain with humanoids for extended periods of time. Silvers gain the ability to adopt humanoid form as early as 2nd level. If you'd rather skip the hat of disguise idea then I suppose you could choose to fudge a bit and have a silver start with the ability to assume a single humanoid form at 1st level. On the other hand, playing a young chromatic dragon, such as a red or blue who, having been hatched amongst humanoids, is growing up to be unusually kindhearted and sociable could make for an interesting characterization. Imagine a naive young red dragon who doesn't understand why everyone he meets expects him to be a rampaging monster.



_I would prefer not to deal with a red dragon (or any other coloured dragon) as a player character for the simple reason of not having to marshal NPC reactions to a red on a recurring basis.  Your choice of metallic dragon would work, though.  If you'd prefer a bronze dragon with the 1st-level ability to morph into humanoid form in exchange for a racial skill/feat/ability of your choice, I'd consider that a fair trade.  You have well-informed judgement about what might constitute a fair swap, so I don't feel I need to tell you out of hand how to handle the swap (though a brief consult with me once you've selected something for the swap would be appreciated)._


> The simplest reasoning is that the dragon has come to watch the ceremony same as every other curious local. He could be observing while remaining disguised as a decorative gargoyle.



_Works for me._


> The simplest motivation for a young dragon to remain in the company of an adventuring party is treasure. Even righteous dragons have an inborn desire to build a hoard and adventurers seem to have a knack for finding loot. Easy peasy.



_...nice and cheesy (continuing the saying, as it were).  Works for me if it works for you._


> All of my suggestions were based upon the notion that the dragon's existence was to be kept a secret from Sandpoint's population at large. Have you reconsidered that stipulation?



_Nope.  I'd still prefer the dragon to remain largely secret from the general public, at least for now.  My response to your ideas was more a "feeling you out" for where you were headed with your ideas._[/sblock]


> In this scenario, you and the sorceror might share blood ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly, but another idea that occurred to me was based on the sorcerer's proposed backstory in which the mother was struck by lightning. A bronze or blue dragon's lightning breath might have been the inadvertent source of power that engendered the unborn offspring with sorcerous might.
Click to expand...


_I don't think Shayuri wants to go with the "born of breath lightening" concept--"storm-born" was the key to his character.  If you and Shayuri desire to create a blood tie between yourselves, that's wonderful and I encourage you (or anyone else) to do so, but I'll largely stay out of the conversation.  As long as I spot no potential trouble with the adventure's plot in anyone's backstory, I prefer that players work out their backgrounds. _


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> I was thinking Talashia might have originally come from Sandpoint.



Would you like Talashia to be a current resident of Sandpoint?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

When you have stats to post, post them HERE then let me know via a post in this thread that you've done so.


----------



## Ambrus

Shayuri said:


> 2) I am not a fan of the dragon breath thing. I like the idea that the lightning bolt was the result of a storm...that she's 'storm-born.' That said, nothing says it has to be a _natural_ storm.



It was just an idea off the top of my head, one of many, and one I'd directed to CB.


----------



## Shayuri

You're right, and I apologize for peeking. It won't happen again.

I've always liked playable dragons...the name Shayuri was originally given to a dragon PC of mine.   I got curious.

CB, Talashia would have left Sandpoint fairly youngish. The story I have so far has her being a local rapscallion, but things take a more serious turn as her magic manifests. A passing wizard recognized what was going on and offered to take her to this magic academy to the south where she could learn to not be a threat to herself and others (and where her condition could be researched).

I'm also thinking that passing wizard had business up in Sandpoint's area to be there at all...so perhaps our current purpose is related to that. Maybe he set up magical runes near the standing stones, for example, to capture and record thaumic resonation in them over a long time. Now we're going back to collect the information.

Or something along those lines. Talashia hasn't been home since she left, though there was certainly some corrospondence. She's not planning on staying either, though events may change that.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Regarding why the group might (emphasis "might") be inclined to divide on certain issues...   ...sword type... ...or any number of random "dividing lines."



Oh don't even get me started on the whole straight vs curved issue! Scimitars... PAH-LEASE. 
[sblock=CanadienneBacon]







CanadienneBacon said:


> _Your choice of metallic dragon would work, though.  If you'd prefer a bronze dragon with the 1st-level ability to morph into humanoid form in exchange for a racial skill/feat/ability of your choice, I'd consider that a fair trade.  You have well-informed judgement about what might constitute a fair swap, so I don't feel I need to tell you out of hand how to handle the swap (though a brief consult with me once you've selected something for the swap would be appreciated)._




Seeing as how you're deferring to my judgement on the issue (and since you've voiced some concern over my character stealing the limelight overmuch) I feel the need to give you my honest opinion about the draconic alternate form special ability. In brief, it's just too versatile and effective at low levels. The thing is, it allows the dragon to assume the form of any humanoid or animal of medium size or smaller with no duration. Unlike a druid's wild shaping ability, there's no minimum size so a dragon could change into the smallest animals possible; say a field mouse, sparrow or garden snake. Taking into account the size, racial and Dexterity bonuses such fine-sized animals might get to their Stealth checks, the dragon might as well be considered altogether invisible. Add to that the ability to assume the form of any humanoid (from dwarf to gnome to goblin to human) and the ability to further disguise themselves as a specific individual and dragons become versatile spies and infiltrators without peer. Compared to that limiting a dragon PC to using a hat of disguise to pass unnoticed is altogether more bearable. The dragon is at least limited to assuming the form of a quadrupedal animal of the same size with none of the animal's racial benefits.

On that basis alone I'd tend to avoid playing a silver dragon. I certainly wouldn't allow one into my own campaigns without serious forethought. Bronze dragons on the other hand gain their alternate form ability relatively late, around 12th level IIRC.[/sblock]


----------



## Ambrus

Shayuri said:


> You're right, and I apologize for peeking. It won't happen again.



S'aright. 



Shayuri said:


> I've always liked playable dragons...the name Shayuri was originally given to a dragon PC of mine.



Maybe we should have an all dragon party! One of each mettalic hue! Huzzah!


----------



## mfloyd3

Ambrus said:


> S'aright.
> 
> Maybe we should have an all dragon party! One of each mettalic hue! Huzzah!




And they can unite to form Voltron!  

Elyra working as an escort for one or more PCs on the way to the festival works well.  Given her wanderlust, I'd figure her for "semi-local" with Sandpoint being a place she comes back to reasonably often.  I'd wanted to avoid too much exposure to the arcane types, but if they were part of a larger party coming up from, say, Magrimar they may all have known each other but not spent a lot of time together.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

Did I miss starting hit points somewhere? Pathfinder offers a couple options.


Standard: Max hit points + Con bonus
Double: Double max hit points + Con bonus
Racial: Max hit points + Con bonus + racial bonus (4 for elves, gnomes, halflings, 6 for humans, half-elves, 8 for half-orcs, dwarves)
Flat: Max hit points + Con bonus + flat bonus (recommended 6)
Constitution: Max hit points + Con score


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Elyra working as an escort for one or more PCs on the way to the festival works well.  Given her wanderlust, I'd figure her for "semi-local" with Sandpoint being a place she comes back to reasonably often.  I'd wanted to avoid too much exposure to the arcane types, but if they were part of a larger party coming up from, say, Magrimar they may all have known each other but not spent a lot of time together.



Having Elyra have passing familiarity with Sandpoint and some of its customs and buildings and shops/services will work well for the purposes of the campaign.  The dragon in the group will probably also be at least semi-local, if not fully local, and the sorceress will have been native to Sandpoint but away for years and just returning "home" at the outset of the adventure.  I'd wanted some familiarity with Sandpoint within the group, enough so that you could navigate the streets and justify possession of a working knowledge of the town.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> CB, Talashia would have left Sandpoint fairly youngish. The story I have so far has her being a local rapscallion, but things take a more serious turn as her magic manifests. A passing wizard recognized what was going on and offered to take her to this magic academy to the south where she could learn to not be a threat to herself and others (and where her condition could be researched).



Seems reasonable to me.



> I'm also thinking that passing wizard had business up in Sandpoint's area to be there at all...so perhaps our current purpose is related to that. Maybe he set up magical runes near the standing stones, for example, to capture and record thaumic resonation in them over a long time. Now we're going back to collect the information.



Again, seems reasonable.  I've no problem with this line of logic.  Did you also read that whopper of a post from me a few posts up, wherein I describe (under the brown-fonted heading "ALL PLEASE READ") a potential motive for the members of the party traveling to Sandpoint?  The Swallowtail Festival and the re-dedication of the Sandpoint Cathedral ought to figure somewhere--at least in part--in party members' motive for being present in Sandpoint.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Merlin's Shadow said:


> Standard: Max hit points + Con bonus
> Double: Double max hit points + Con bonus
> Racial: Max hit points + Con bonus + racial bonus (4 for elves, gnomes, halflings, 6 for humans, half-elves, 8 for half-orcs, dwarves)
> Flat: Max hit points + Con bonus + flat bonus (recommended 6)
> Constitution: Max hit points + Con score



Thanks for pointing out this omission. Aside from the dragon (who already has a whopping mass of HP), I would like everyone else to use the Standard method of HP generation as described above.


----------



## Ambrus

Edit.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]







Ambrus said:


> Seeing as how you're deferring to my judgement on the issue (and since you've voiced some concern over my character stealing the limelight overmuch) I feel the need to give you my honest opinion about the draconic alternate form special ability. In brief, it's just too versatile and effective at low levels.



You're right.  I'm already feeling some trepidation regarding whether I'll be able to effectively handle a PC dragon as a DM.  My chief concerns are how to balance your character against the others--the dragon has 40+ HP at first level, the ability to fly, and a breath weapon, all just at 1st level.  The other characters have no such abilities.  Plus, I know from past experience DMing you that you're well-versed in the rules and will push for every possible in-character use of ability whenever feasible.  That's not intended as a knock against you, just a statement of fact--you can be a delight to play with but also a challenge.  I simultaneously want to see a dragon in play, particularly in a game I run, but don't want the adventure spoiled due to the ease with which even a wyrmling might circumvent what is intended to be a challenge for a "normal" party.  What I do know from past experience playing with you is that you can be counted on to maintain an active posting interest in the game and that you'll keep me honest as DM, both of which are selling points in your favor.


> . . .limiting a dragon PC to using a hat of disguise to pass unnoticed is altogether more bearable _(emphasis mine)_. The dragon is at least limited to assuming the form of a quadrupedal animal of the same size with none of the animal's racial benefits.



Goodness, thank you for your honest opinion.  Shall we call it bronze dragon with a Hat of Disguise, then?  
[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I see that Ambrus has staked out a spot in the character repository thread over in Plots and Places.  I encourage each of you to stake your own area over there as well.

renau1g, are you around of late, and are you working on your magic user?


----------



## renau1g

CanadienneBacon said:


> renau1g, are you around of late, and are you working on your magic user?




yup, just working on my PC now, I am trying to read over the downloaded player's guide and come up with an idea.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Aside from the dragon (who already has a whopping mass of HP)



Uhm. A first level dragon get one hit die's worth of hit points same as any character, albeit it is a d12.

[sblock=CanadienneBacon]







CanadienneBacon said:


> My chief concerns are how to balance your character against the others--the dragon has 40+ HP at first level, the ability to fly, and a breath weapon, all just at 1st level.



Whoa whoa whoa! Slow down there cowgirl! I think you missed a few things I mentioned a while back. A 1st level dragon doesn't have 40+ hit points, can't fly and has no breath weapon aside from a possible case of halitosis.

A 1st level bronze dragon has 1d12 hit points (plus Con), just like a barbarian character. It only gains the ability to fly at 4th level; until then it has to hoof it just like any ol' halfling (at a speed of 20) They do have a swim speed of 20 for whatever that's worth though. They gain their first breath weapon (a 1d6 line of lightning, Reflex save for half) at 5th level. In turn their repulsion breath is only gained at 9th level.

There. Feel better now? 


CanadienneBacon said:


> Shall we call it bronze dragon with a Hat of Disguise, then?



Yes please. At the moment I'm trying to decide whether my dragon should have been entrusted to a humanoid mentor in Sandpoint by a late draconic parent (the likeliest candidate being Ameiko Kaijitsu at the Rusty Dragon Inn) or have simply been left to hatch alone for unknown reasons in a chamber somewhere beneath the Old Light. The former means that my dragon would have a mentor and friend amongst the populace while the latter leaves me free of anyone in town knowing about my presence there. What do you think?[/sblock]
I see that you've included Unearthed Arcana amongst the campaign's sourcebooks. I'm wondering which optional rules, if any, we'll be using from that book. Are traits and flaws permitted? For that matter, are we gaining any campaign specific traits from the adventure?

Also, you'll have to assign my character his starting gold, if any. Monster classes never have it listed for some odd reason.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]







> A 1st level dragon doesn't have 40+ hit points, can't fly and has no breath weapon aside from a possible case of halitosis.



_I'm obviously missing a critical section in a rulebook, then...in looking at the standard entry for a bronze dragon in the 3.5 MM, I'm seeing 6d12 as the HP for a bronze wyrmling.  Having been out of D&D for 18 months, I'm now drawing a blank as to where I should be looking for stats on a dragon PC.  Let me know._


> There. Feel better now?



_Indeed. _ 


> At the moment I'm trying to decide whether my dragon should have been entrusted to a humanoid mentor in Sandpoint by a late draconic parent (the likeliest candidate being Ameiko Kaijitsu at the Rusty Dragon Inn) or have simply been left to hatch alone for unknown reasons in a chamber somewhere beneath the Old Light. The former means that my dragon would have a mentor and friend amongst the populace while the latter leaves me free of anyone in town knowing about my presence there. What do you think?



_A relationship with Ameiko Kaijitsu requires more work on my end than your idea to be born in the Old Light but is probably better for both you and the adventure.  What happened to your idea to lair at the Sandpoint Theatre? _ [/sblock]


> I see that you've included Unearthed Arcana amongst the campaign's sourcebooks. I'm wondering which optional rules, if any, we'll be using from that book. Are traits and flaws permitted? For that matter, are we gaining any campaign specific traits from the adventure?



_Traits and flaws are allowable on a limited basis, yup.  Which interest you?  Regarding whether characters gain campaign-specific traits from the adventure, I certainly wouldn't rule it out.  I usually wind up handing out all kinds of goodies (which delight both me and the players at the time, though sometimes I later regret my decision!) during adventuring for the simple reason that when things are dull I compensate by giving out new "toys."  Probably not the best approach to DMing, but it's an honest assessment._



> Also, you'll have to assign my character his starting gold, if any. Monster classes never have it listed for some odd reason.



_Can do. Let me read up on a few things, and I'll get back to you.  I'll be at work this afternoon and have plans to go out this evening (a once in a blue moon occasion!), so it may be Saturday late morning before I get back to you.  We do a community pancake breakfast every Saturday morning here at this seminary, which is a terrific impromptu gathering, but what with cooking, chatting up friends, and clean-up duties, we're frequently busy until 10:30 am._


----------



## jkason

D'oh! I gotta read the full boards more regularly instead of just hitting my subscriptions. I'm still sad at the two abortive attempts with my other group trying to play Pathfinder and this adventure path. *sigh*

Ah, well, if you find you have an opening, I'd love a shot. If not, have much fun, folks! 

jason


----------



## renau1g

I'm assuming max HP at first level?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> Ah, well, if you find you have an opening, I'd love a shot.



I'll keep you in mind in case a player drops out.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

renau1g said:


> I'm assuming max HP at first level?



Yup, max HP + Con modifier at 1st level.  Including the dragon.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> _in looking at the standard entry for a bronze dragon in the 3.5 MM, I'm seeing 6d12 as the HP for a bronze wyrmling. I'm now drawing a blank as to where I should be looking for stats on a dragon PC.  Let me know._



The MM bronze wyrmling has 6 hit dice and an ECL of +4, which makes it equivalent to a 10th level PC. What you're missing is the article in Dragon Magazine 320 that I mentioned in my original post. It introduces Savage Species style monster classes for each metallic dragon, which in turn scales back their power so as to make them playable as 1st level PCs. I'll eventually get everything listed in the MM, but only by 10th level; so there's no need to worry. 
[sblock=CanadienneBacon]







CanadienneBacon said:


> _A relationship with Ameiko Kaijitsu requires more work on my end than your idea to be born in the Old Light but is probably better for both you and the adventure. What happened to your idea to lair at the Sandpoint Theatre?_



I'd mentioned that haunting the theater was most appropriate for a curious and gregarious brass or copper dragon. Bronzes are a bit more aloof and scholarly and so less inclined to appreciate the theater I imagine. I've typed up a tentative background in the Rogue's Gallery. Please take a look and let me know if it works for you.

My thinking is that the events surrounding the Late Unpleasantness (which I believe occurred roughly five years earlier) coincided with Taran's egg being abandoned in the sea cave for whatever reason. A bronze dragon egg incubates for approximately 600 days, a bit less than two full years later. Taran would thus have been skulking around town for the past three to four years or so. I think it'd be great fun to discover if/how its being in Sandpoint ties into the town's mysterious past. So what do you think?[/sblock]







CanadienneBacon said:


> _Traits and flaws are allowable on a limited basis, yup.  Which interest you?_



Dunno. Hadn't thought about it until now. I'll let you know. 

Edit: A bit of reading brought two possible flaws to mind: Shaky or Wild
[sblock=Wild]*WILD [Flaw]*
Accustomed only to a free life in the wild, you
panic when captured or restrained.
*Prerequisite:* Survival 1 rank.
*Effect:* Whenever you are entangled,
pinned, or bound, you immediately become
panicked. Your fear is alleviated 1 round after
you are free of all bonds. Spells and effects
that remove fear do not prevent this effect.
(Dragon Magazine 329, pg. 95)[/sblock]







CanadienneBacon said:


> _Regarding whether characters gain campaign-specific traits from the adventure, I certainly wouldn't rule it out._



In case you're not familiar with them specifically, character traits were introduced in later Paizo adventure paths, some being tied to a particular adventures' back story, known as _campaign traits_. Perhaps they weren't yet conceived of when Burnt Offerings was first published. Regardless, a free PDF detailing character traits is available for download. They could be used in addition, in tandem or instead of Unearthed Arcana's traits. Take a look. 


CanadienneBacon said:


> Please ask if there is something you're in love with that is not on the list.



I found an interesting feat that might work for my character.[sblock=Dragon Tail]*DRAGON TAIL*
Your draconic ancestry manifests as a muscular tail you
can use in combat.
*Prerequisite:* Dragonblood subtype, 1st level only.
*Benefit:* You have a tail that you can use to make a
secondary natural attack in combat. This attack deals
bludgeoning damage according to your size (Small = 1d6)
*Special:* Unlike most feats, this feat must be taken at
1st level, during character creation.
(Races of the Dragon, pg. 98)[/sblock]Have fun at your community breakfast. Pancakes. Mmm...


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:


> Yes.  I've amended the originating post (OP) to reflect final party composition and have closed recruiting early.  What can I say, I liked what I saw.




Darn. Have fun everybody.


----------



## renau1g

Dang...CanadienneBacon as much as I have a great idea for a character and like how things are coming together, I probably have too much on my plate right now. I apologize for my exuberance in signing up for the game, but must respectfully withdraw. Luckily, it appears that there are 2 more willing players to fill my void. 

Thank you again for the consideration and happy gaming.


----------



## Ambrus

Talashia's ease at tossing 1d6 lightning bolts around at will makes my lightningless bronze dragon want to weep with inadequacy. 

Shayuri, I was flipping through Unearthed Arcana and I happened to notice the Conductivity spelltouched feat which sounds like it might tie in nicely with Talashia's background. Take a look.


----------



## mfloyd3

*Elyra posted*

Elyra is posted in the stats thread.  The character sheet is currently messy; I'll try and clean it up sometime soon, but for now I thought I would just get things posted.

I also fleshed out her history.  Her low charisma isn't a dump stat, it's character hook!  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Also, I worked out a connection for Sandpoint.  Elyra travels as widely as possible most of the year, but has wintered in Sandpoint the last two years.  She has found a number of good unclaimed hunting grounds within a few days' hike of the town, so she supplements her savings from the year by making several trips to go trapping.  The rapidly growing town also offers her good chances for odd jobs.

She has returned early this year because she got a good offer to escort someone (perhaps a PC) to the Swallowtail festival.  She is debating leaving to try to pull in a little more work after the festival, or finding local work during the harvest and settling in for the winter.


----------



## Shayuri

Heee

Interesting.

But Talashia will become progressively harder to hurt with lightning as time goes by, which means that the feat will become harder and harder to get any use out of. 

Thanks for the suggestion though!


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

Okay, I got the start of my character in the RG thread. I should have him finished later tonight or tomorrow morning.


----------



## jkason

renau1g said:


> Dang...CanadienneBacon as much as I have a great idea for a character and like how things are coming together, I probably have too much on my plate right now. I apologize for my exuberance in signing up for the game, but must respectfully withdraw. Luckily, it appears that there are 2 more willing players to fill my void.
> 
> Thank you again for the consideration and happy gaming.




Shall I work up a concept? Do you still want another magic-user in this slot, or would you prefer someone to fill the trapfinding/disabling niche (I see there was some debate about that earlier in the thread)? I can do something with either one, just wanted to see if you and / or the existing party had a preference?

jason


----------



## Shayuri

Updated sheet for Talashia. Mechanically she's done, I think...

Doing description and background now.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

I've just about got Grokk's mechanical stats done. Should have them done soon.

Am I the only one having difficulty accessing the site today? It's been hit or miss for me all day.


----------



## Ambrus

Yeah, the site's been touch and go for the past few days.

Something I've been wondering about Grokk for awhile though; which god does he worship?


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

I'm going with Torag since that fits my concept of a protector. Though he's primarily a dwarven deity, he does have followers of other races (Torag - PathfinderWiki). For his history, I'm thinking he grew up in Korvosa and it was there that he met a dwarven cleric of Torag who looked after him. This led to him joining the church when he was old enough.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm just sitting down to read through and reply to posts--hang tight.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]







Ambrus said:


> My thinking is that the events surrounding the Late Unpleasantness (which I believe occurred roughly five years earlier) coincided with Taran's egg being abandoned in the sea cave for whatever reason. A bronze dragon egg incubates for approximately 600 days, a bit less than two full years later. Taran would thus have been skulking around town for the past three to four years or so. I think it'd be great fun to discover if/how its being in Sandpoint ties into the town's mysterious past. So what do you think?



_I have the morning free to do chores and mess around on ENWorld, and then I'll be at work for the afternoon.  In prioritizing the things I need to do in the time I have this morning, I'll probably be looking at character sheets later tonight.  Thanks for the link to the d20 section on Flaws, that'll prove helpful, as will the link to Pathfinder Character Traits.  I haven't read Shaky yet, but the description of Wild you posted sounds just fine._


> I found an interesting feat that might work for my character.
> 
> *DRAGON TAIL*
> Your draconic ancestry manifests as a muscular tail you
> can use in combat.
> *Prerequisite:* Dragonblood subtype, 1st level only.
> _Help me out with the larger contect here...by "dragonblood" subtype, does that mean PC races that somehow have been affected by dragonblood, or does that mean dragons per se?  What's the original intent of the feat?_
> *Benefit:* You have a tail that you can use to make a
> secondary natural attack in combat. This attack deals
> bludgeoning damage according to your size (Small = 1d6)
> *Special:* Unlike most feats, this feat must be taken at
> 1st level, during character creation.
> (Races of the Dragon, pg. 98)



[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> Ah, well, if you find you have an opening, I'd love a shot.



Since renau1g has dropped out, the space is yours if you'd like.  We could do with a rogue.


Voadam said:


> Darn. Have fun everybody.



You now occupy the first alternate position, if you're interested.  I may still have your e-mail address floating around--if space opens up, shall I e-mail you?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

renau1g said:


> I apologize for my exuberance in signing up for the game, but must respectfully withdraw.



No worries, renau1g.  Initial exuberance (sometimes followed by lukewarmness later on or the later realization that one's plate is already overly full) is a very normal characteristic of PbP--and certainly one I've experienced myself.  Thanks for hanging out with us this far, and hope you enjoy your other games.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Elyra is posted in the stats thread.  The character sheet is currently messy; I'll try and clean it up sometime soon, but for now I thought I would just get things posted.



No worries!  I took the weekend off and pretended like ENWorld didn't exist, and so haven't read anyone's character sheets yet.  Once I finish reading through and replying to everyone's weekend questions/concerns, I'm going to start my laundry and then I'll probably sit down to at least read through what's in the character sheet thread (though responding to full-on character sheets usually takes me longer because I like to vet the numbers if at all possible).



> I also fleshed out her history.  Her low charisma isn't a dump stat, it's character hook!  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.



Good story--stick to it.    Dump stats are a normal part of D&D--the lowest number has to go somewhere, after all.  Good for you that you got some mileage out of it.



> Also, I worked out a connection for Sandpoint.  Elyra travels as widely as possible most of the year, but has wintered in Sandpoint the last two years.  She has found a number of good unclaimed hunting grounds within a few days' hike of the town, so she supplements her savings from the year by making several trips to go trapping.  The rapidly growing town also offers her good chances for odd jobs.
> 
> She has returned early this year because she got a good offer to escort someone (perhaps a PC) to the Swallowtail festival.  She is debating leaving to try to pull in a little more work after the festival, or finding local work during the harvest and settling in for the winter.



You could be escorting the lightening sorceror, the cleric, and/or the paladin back to Sandpoint.  I haven't read through everyone's completed backstories yet (indeed, does everyone have a backstory posted?), but one of the three or all of the three may have been assigned a trail guide.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Merlin's Shadow said:


> I'm going with Torag since that fits my concept of a protector. Though he's primarily a dwarven deity, he does have followers of other races (Torag - PathfinderWiki). For his history, I'm thinking he grew up in Korvosa and it was there that he met a dwarven cleric of Torag who looked after him. This led to him joining the church when he was old enough.



A good backstory is a beautiful and wondrous thing (and very useful, besides).  

I'll read through character sheets starting today and will probbly continue on tomorrow and the next day.  We're now into the time frame of starting a new game that always eats up a lot of my time--vetting character sheets.  Things may slow down for half a week or so while I cull through numbers and query players about stats.  

One day in the not-too-distant future, however, you all will wake up, check in during your day, and find that most glorious of discoveriess--the OP in the main "Playing the Game" thread.


----------



## renau1g

CanadienneBacon said:


> No worries, renau1g.  Initial exuberance (sometimes followed by lukewarmness later on or the later realization that one's plate is already overly full) is a very normal characteristic of PbP--and certainly one I've experienced myself.  Thanks for hanging out with us this far, and hope you enjoy your other games.




Thanks!


----------



## Shayuri

I am cobbling together my backstory, but here's the outline (which I will post when I have it fleshed out):

Talashia's parents are Varisians who are separated from their caravan in a storm, while her mother is pregnant. At some point while they are seeking shelter, lightning strikes her mother, knocking her unconscious. Desperate and fearing for her life and the life of his child, Talashia's father carries her mother in his arms until he comes across Sandpoint and is given shelter while they both recover.

Her parents decide to stay in Sandpoint even after the storm passes. Her father sensibly decides it's foolish to try to travel with her mother so close to delivering...and her mother believes that Desana led them there for a reason. How else would she have survived that lightning? They take up trades and rent a room in the town.

Talashia is born. Tan like her parents, but with snow-white hair that contrasts with that skin tone. Her parents argue over it a bit, but her mother convinces her father to stay in Sandpoint longer, until the baby's a bit more grown up.

The young Talashia proves to be a handful though. A difficult combination of free-spirited and stubborn, she gets in more than her share of childhood brawls and is all too frequently pestering neighbors and getting into trouble. Other things start happening too, more and more often as she gets older. Odd gusts of wind that, by seeming coincidence, move things just how she would like, and strange wisps of light that flicker and dance outside her window at night.

By this time, her parents are established in Sandpoint, and find it hard to leave. Even so, as Talashia reaches her tenth year, the effects surrounding her surge in magnitude and start to become dangerous. It is at this time that a wizard and a few underlings from Magnimar are in town to study the standing stones and, it's believed, investigate the Old Light as well. Her parents, not knowing what else to do, approach the older man and confide their predicament and fears.

The wizard realizes what must be going on, and informs them that the only way to help the girl is to teach her to harness and control the wild, primal magic she was born with. That's something that can only be done at Magnimar. The wizard and Talashia's parents talk more over the next two weeks (the duration of the wizard's stay), and in the end agree to let Talashia accompany him back to Magnimar.

The girl has no patience for learning magic the scholarly way, but is interested enough in the subject matter to sit through classes in magical theory. She's as much of a scamp in Magnimar as in Sandpoint, but at least in the wizard school she's not alone in that. She's also taught basic exercises to meditate and focus the mind, that help her put an end to uncontrolled magical outbursts and focus her power with her will. In the end she masters several spells; manipulations of magical force for the most part, and completes her studies.

Now she's returning to Sandpoint to follow up on the initial expedition made when she was just a child there, many years ago.

------
So there's plenty of room for further embellishment and tying together backgrounds and/or setting plot hooks in there.


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> Since renau1g has dropped out, the space is yours if you'd like.  We could do with a rogue.




You got it. I'm thinking of an engineer/inventor type. That would give him the device knowledge for trapfinding and the like, and give him a reason to be around Sandpoint (perhaps he consulted on the rebuild, or is there to witness the most recent architectural upgrades it represents).


----------



## Shayuri

Maybe he was involved with the rebuilding of the temple?


----------



## jkason

Shayuri said:


> Maybe he was involved with the rebuilding of the temple?




Sounds good to me. He's a first-level PC, so he can't have run it, but if this was, say, part of his final journeyman training, it connects him to the town, the temple, and gives him a reason to be ready to go anywhere else, since his job is now finished. 

My only trepidation with the engineer concept is that it doesn't lend itself to a very sneaky-jumpy rogue, but I have a couple of background ideas that I think will make that work (for example: high builds on scaffolding require a good measure of balance and agility, etc.).


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=CanadienneBacon]







CanadienneBacon said:


> _Help me out with the larger contect here...by "dragonblood" subtype, does that mean PC races that somehow have been affected by dragonblood, or does that mean dragons per se?_



It's a subtype that was originally introduced in _Races of the Dragon_ and was subsequently used in other books including Dragons of Faerûn and the MM5. In _Races of the Dragon_ three races intended for use as PCs have the subtype: the dragonborn of Bahamut, spellscales and kobolds. Here's a write-up of the subtype:







			
				Dragons of Faerûn said:
			
		

> *Dragonblood Subtype*
> A creature that has the dragonblood subtype has a strong affinity to dragons–which means that spells, effects, powers, and abilities that affect or target dragons also affect it. The subtype qualifies a creature to use magic items normally usable by dragons, and qualifies the creature to take feats that have the subtype as a prerequisite. The dragonblood subtype also makes creatures subject to harmful effects and affect dragons.
> The dragonblood subtype does not confer the dragon type or any traits associated with that type. For instance, it does not give a creature frightful presence. *Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers, or spells that require the dragonblood subtype.*
> Creatures presented in this book that have the the dragonblood subtype include the krathbarin, the bluespawn stoneglider, and the redspawn birther. Should a creature acquire the dragon type, it loses the dragonblood subtype.



Emphasis mine.







CanadienneBacon said:


> _What's the original intent of the feat?_



The feat is one of many in _Races of the Dragon_ intended to give those playing dragon-themed PCs attributes and abilities reminiscent of those possessed by true dragons by acquiring them through the expenditure of feats. This one gives the PC a saurian tail and an extra attack similar to that possessed by larger dragons.

Just a reminder that I'm still wondering about the issue of traits and waiting to hear about starting funds. [/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]







> It's a subtype that was originally introduced in _Races of the Dragon_ and was subsequently used in other books including Dragons of Faerûn and the MM5. In _Races of the Dragon_ three races intended for use as PCs have the subtype: the dragonborn of Bahamut, spellscales and kobolds. Here's a write-up of the subtype:Emphasis mine.The feat is one of many in _Races of the Dragon_ intended to give those playing dragon-themed PCs attributes and abilities reminiscent of those possessed by true dragons by acquiring them through the expenditure of feats. This one gives the PC a saurian tail and an extra attack similar to that possessed by larger dragons.



Thanks for helping me understand what the dragonblood subtype is all about.  I don't have a problem with the feat, go right ahead with it(thanks for checking first).[/sblock]



> Just a reminder that I'm still wondering about the issue of traits and waiting to hear about starting funds.



ALL--up to two traits per character allowed.  You can use Unearthed Arcana and/or the Pathfinder supplement/s for traits.  Please do attempt to make the traits balanced.  If the book says to take a flaw for every trait you take, then please do so.  

Ambrus, I still owe you starting gold.  Gotta scoot to work now, so unfortunately I'll need to get back to you this evening on starting funds.  You've been patient with the wait, and for that I thank you.


----------



## Ambrus

Shayuri said:


> Maybe he was involved with the rebuilding of the temple?



I rather like that idea. It'd be nice to see him (with the other engineers and workmen) celebrated for this significant achievement during the dedication ceremony. 

Since Jkason's journeyman character has been working to safeguard the standing stones during the new cathedral's construction, perhaps the lead engineer has assigned him the responsibility of supervising Talashia while she conducts her follow-up investigation of the same. Not certain how the engineering crew and wizardly delegation regard each other, but it'd at least serve to have two PCs already working alongside each other. The journeyman character could also be serving as Cathedral tour guide to visiting pilgrims such as our cleric and paladin PCs; proudly showcasing his own handiwork in hopes of landing new church construction contracts.

I guess that'd also free up our ranger to not have to spend skill ranks and funds so as to be able to Disable Device.


----------



## Shayuri

A note: Talashia has the basic mage skills (Spellcraft and Knowledge Arcana), but is not by any means "scholarly." It's unlikely she'd be sent alone to do more than simply observe and/or collect results, I'd think...unless the mage guilds are desperate for manpower.

Or unless there are mitigating circumstances.


----------



## jkason

So, I just discovered that Know (Engineering) isn't a class skill for Rogues. Bards, wizards, and fighters are apparently the natural builders of the world.  

Ah, well. Luckily Pathfinder isn't as tough on cross class skills as regular 3.5e, and this might actually work well with the concept I've got percolating: 

Tac Abor, one of the only children who ever longed to run *away* from the circus...


----------



## Ambrus

Perhaps Talashia's mentors think they've already learned everything of import concerning the standing stones and are simply using her follow-up investigation as an excuse to send their unscholarly student home. _"Yeah, uhm, so go back to Sandpoint and let us know if anything, uh... develops with those standing stones. Kthxbye."_ 



jkason said:


> So, I just discovered that Know (Engineering) isn't a class skill for Rogues.



No problem, simply take the Mathematical Prodigy trait. 

*Mathematical Prodigy*: Mathematics has always
come easily for you, and you have always been able to “see
the math” in the physical and magical world. You gain a
+1 bonus on Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (architecture
and engineering) checks, and one of these skills
(your choice) is always a class skill for you.


----------



## jkason

Ambrus said:


> No problem, simply take the Mathematical Prodigy trait.
> 
> *Mathematical Prodigy*: Mathematics has always
> come easily for you, and you have always been able to “see
> the math” in the physical and magical world. You gain a
> +1 bonus on Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (architecture
> and engineering) checks, and one of these skills
> (your choice) is always a class skill for you.




Ooh! Perfect! I didn't even look at it since it was under magical traits! Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## mfloyd3

jkason said:


> Tac Abor, one of the only children who ever longed to run *away* from the circus...





Wait, you can't have that!  That's Elyra's backstory!  

Seriously, if you want to go that route, we could have them be siblings or cousins.  Have a look at her backstory and see what you think.  No reason they couldn't be strangers -- There must be some number of Varisians whose teen rebellion consisted of leaving their nomadic life to take up, er, a nomadic life.

As noted, I'll drop Elyra's Disable Device and pick up an alternative.  Are you leaning more toward a melee-centered rogue or a ranged one?  I can tweak Elyra to make her a hand-to-hand combatant, since we may come up short on melee fighters.  Let me know your thoughts.


----------



## Ambrus

jkason said:


> My only trepidation with the engineer concept is that it doesn't lend itself to a very sneaky-jumpy rogue.



Thanks to the trait, perhaps your journeyman can learn to apply his intuitive understanding of engineering principles to the body; quickly identifying and targeting the keystone that supports the whole structure with effective sneak attacks. Maybe "seeing the math" could become the process by which your character seeks to resolve most problems. 


mfloyd3 said:


> I can tweak Elyra to make her a hand-to-hand combatant, since we may come up short on melee fighters.  Let me know your thoughts.



My dragon is a primary melee combatant, as is our half-orc cleric I believe.


----------



## jkason

mfloyd3 said:


> Wait, you can't have that!  That's Elyra's backstory!
> 
> Seriously, if you want to go that route, we could have them be siblings or cousins.  Have a look at her backstory and see what you think.  No reason they couldn't be strangers -- There must be some number of Varisians whose teen rebellion consisted of leaving their nomadic life to take up, er, a nomadic life.
> 
> As noted, I'll drop Elyra's Disable Device and pick up an alternative.  Are you leaning more toward a melee-centered rogue or a ranged one?  I can tweak Elyra to make her a hand-to-hand combatant, since we may come up short on melee fighters.  Let me know your thoughts.




Ack! Sorry 'bout that. I had skimmed Elyra's background, but caught the 'wandering swindlers' part without managing to catch the performers. My bad. 

I had thought of Tac's tribe as a more honest lot, where he left them not because they were bad, but because his analytical mind just wasn't right for the instinctual, free-spirits of his kin.  But if you want to co-mingle backgrounds, I'd be all for that. And having a cousin in Sandpoint might give Elyra more reason to be visiting?

I haven't finished statting him, but at a thought: Tac didn't have the same moral dilemmas that Elyra had, but since he knew he didn't love performing so much as figuring out how things worked, maybe he begged to accompany Elyra when she left (I think he's going to be slightly younger than her)?  She took him along to keep an eye out for him, until he found apprenticeship in the engineering guildhalls. 

As for combat, I think I've been looking at melee support. Weapon Finesse and Dodge for feats, I think, hoping to get into flanking position for sneak attacks, so no need to worry about futzing with your ranged stuff.


----------



## mfloyd3

> I haven't finished statting him, but at a thought: Tac didn't have the same moral dilemmas that Elyra had, but since he knew he didn't love performing so much as figuring out how things worked, maybe he begged to accompany Elyra when she left (I think he's going to be slightly younger than her)?  She took him along to keep an eye out for him, until he found apprenticeship in the engineering guildhalls.
> 
> 
> 
> That works.  There can be some ambiguity, too -- We can make Tac her cousin, and his branch of the family was not quite as criminal.  Also, Tac being younger may not have been as aware of it.  Elyra may never have discussed it with him in great detail, wanting to spare him, so it might surprise him to know the depth of her feelings on the subject.
> 
> Is Tac a permanent resident at Sandpoint?  If not, we can leave it that Elyra heard from a mutual acquaintance he was in town, and took the first job headed that way (which, perhaps, happened to be with a PC).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for combat, I think I've been looking at melee support. Weapon Finesse and Dodge for feats, I think, hoping to get into flanking position for sneak attacks, so no need to worry about futzing with your ranged stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  And as Ambrus pointed out, the dragon and the priest are melee combatants as well.
> 
> Why am I worried about melee combat, anyway?  We have a dragon!  Admittedly, he has warm brown eyes and a fuzzy coat, but he's still a dragon!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

Ambrus said:


> My dragon is a primary melee combatant, as is our half-orc cleric I believe.




Yes, Grokk quite enjoys getting in the thick of things.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

Okay, the mechanical aspects of Grokk should be done. I'll get his background posted later tonight.


----------



## jkason

mfloyd3 said:


> That works.  There can be some ambiguity, too -- We can make Tac her cousin, and his branch of the family was not quite as criminal.  Also, Tac being younger may not have been as aware of it.  Elyra may never have discussed it with him in great detail, wanting to spare him, so it might surprise him to know the depth of her feelings on the subject.




Sounds good. Maybe Elyra ran into Tac's branch during her initial travelling, and when the more-naive Tac expressed an interest in leaving, she volunteered to take him as a means of keeping his idealism intact. Of course, his interests being different than hers, she left him in the hands of the engineers, knowing he could leave word for her at guildhalls if the need arose.



> Is Tac a permanent resident at Sandpoint?  If not, we can leave it that Elyra heard from a mutual acquaintance he was in town, and took the first job headed that way (which, perhaps, happened to be with a PC).




I think long-term temporary. I don't think he did all his training there, but he's been there for quite some time helping with rebuilding the temple. And since he's finally 'graduating,' he left word for her, hoping to re-connect?


----------



## Ambrus

Are all our humans Varisian? If so it'd be good if everyone had Varisian as a language. I might be wrong, but I believe it's the default spoken language throughout Varisia.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, starting gold for your dragon will be 75 gp.


----------



## Ambrus

Can I ask how that figure was arrived at? And how do you want to handle the issue of my starting with a magic item?


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

Added a description and brief background notes to Grokk. I do have a bit more to add in that last department.


----------



## Walking Dad

Sivan is in the RG

@shayuri: Shall we link backgrounds. I could know you from my NPC contact Chaine (see my background).


----------



## CanadienneBacon

CanadienneBacon said:


> Ambrus, starting gold for your dragon will be 75 gp.



Proof I shouldn't nap on the couch then stumble in to the computer to post.  Ambrus, you starting funds should be max for 3d4 x 10, which is 120 gp, not 75 gp.  Apologies for the error.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Hello!

I stumbled across this thread last night and began reading - it looks really good!

Madam DM, I know you've closed recruiting (and even have a first alternate) but if a spot opens up for me I'd love to play a PF Monk. I'll put my idea here in a spoiler just in case something opens up in the future.

My e-mail is mc-patterson@hotmail.com.

Y'all have fun!

[sblock=Ancrym Dor]
	
	




		Code:
	

  Name: Ancrym Dor            Age: 19
 Class: Monk               Height: 5'0"
  Race: Human (Shaonti)    Weight: 150 lbs
  Size: Medium               Hair: Black
Gender: Male                 Eyes: Green
 Align: Lawful Good          Skin: Olive
 Deity: None

Str: 12 +1 (02p.)     Level: 01             XP: 0000
Dex: 16 +3 (05p.)       BAB: +0             HP: 09
Con: 12 +1 (02p.)       CMB: +1        Dmg Red: 0/anything
Int: 11 +0 (00p.)     Speed: 30'     Spell Res: None
Wis: 14 +2 (05p.)      Init: +9
Cha: 10 +0 (01p.)       ACP: -0 


    AC:     Total  Base  Armor  Shld   Dex  Size   Def   Nat  Misc
              16    10     +0    +0    +3   +0     +0    +0    +3

                  Touch AC: 16              Flatfooted AC: 10


                Total  Base   Mod  Misc   Special
Fort:             3     2     +1          
 Ref:             5     2     +3          
Will:             4     2     +2     


Weapon                  Attack    Damage      Critical
Empty Hand              +1        1d6+1        20/x2
Nunchaku                +1        1d6+1        20/x2
Quarterstaff            +1        1d6+1        20/x2


Languages: Common, Shaonti


Human Traits:
    * +2 Dexterity
    * Bonus Feat (1st Level)
    * Skilled (Extra Skill Point at each Level)
    * Weapon Training (Longbow)
    * Favored Class (Monk)

Monk Abilities:
    * Proficiencies: No armor; Monk Weapons may be used as part of
        Flurry of Blows
    * AC Bonus (Add Wisdom bonus to AC)
    * Unarmed Strike (Lethal or Non-Lethal at no penalty, always Armed)
    * Flurry of Blows (One extra attack/rnd, all attacks at penalty)
    * Bonus Feat (1st, 2nd, and every 4 levels after 2nd)


Character Trait:
    * Shriikirri-Quah Totem Spirit (+2 Initiative, +2 Ride)    

Feats:
    * Acrobatic
    * Alertness
    * Improved Initiative


Skill Points: 6 (4/Lvl + 1/Lvl FC + 1/Lvl Race)

Skills                Total   Rank     CS   Ability  Misc
Acrobatics              9       1       3      3      2
Appraise                0                      0
Bluff                   0                      0
Climb                   1                      1       
Craft                   0                      0       
Diplomacy               0                      0       
Disguise                0                      0
Escape Artist           3                      3
Fly                     6       1              3      2
Heal                    2                      2
Intimidate              0                      0
Knowledge (History)     4       1       3      0
Perception              8       1       3      2      2
Perform                 0                              
Ride                    9       1       3      3      2 
Sense Motive            8       1       3      2      2
Spellcraft              0                      0
Stealth                 3                      3
survival                2                      2       
Swim                    1                      1       


Money
PP: 00     GP: 157     SP: 02     CP: 00

Equipment                      Cost    Weight
Monk's Outfit                         
Quarterstaff                            4 lb
Nunchaku (2)                     4 gp   4 lb
Sack                             1 sp   ½ lb
Trail Rations (5 Days)         2.5 gp   5 lb
Waterskin                        1 gp	4 lb
Rope (50' Silk)                 10 gp   5 lb

  
                        Total Weight:  22.5 lb

            Light  Medium   Heavy    Over Head  Lift    Push
Max Weight: 0-43   44-86    87-130   0-130      0-260   0-630


[sblock=Background]
Ancrym Dor was once a proud child of the Shaonti Shriikirri-Quah, the
Clan of the Hawk. As a child he was a typical member of that clan: a
daredevil, a hunter and warrior in training, a magnificent rider of
horses and teller of tales. He was the eldest child of his family, and
the only boy-child. At the age of eight he began putting his childhood
training to use, riding on raids with his father - the clan chief -
and hunting for the clan.

When he was 10, this idyllic life was shattered forever. Ancrym was
designated as lookout when his father led a raid on a rich caravan,
not dreaming that the merchant owner was also a powerful and ruthless
slave trader. Not only was Ancrym's father and his entire party either
killed or enslaved, the trader then tracked the raiding party back to
their encampment and proceded to enslave the entire clan. The clan's
shaman had had a prophetic dream about this event, and met Ancrym as
he raced back to the camp to give warning. The Shaman forced Ancrym to
hide in a concealed gulley. The young man cowered and listened as his
clan - including his mother and two sisters - were brutalized and
captured. The Shaman was deemed to old by the slavers to be worth
taking and was cut down where he stood, his body falling across the
gully and further concealing the hiding place of his young charge. The
old holy man was not finished, however. With his dying breath he pledged
his protection to the young Ancrym; rather than rising to their after-
life the Shaman's spirit infused Ancrym's body, granting him speed
and the affinity of his clan for horseback riding.

Now the only surviving member of his once proud clan, Ancrym took to the
road. He left the life of a raider behind, vowing never to take what
belonged to another unless it was freely given and to protect the weak
and helpless from those who would enslave them. He worked hard to hone
his body into the perfect weapon for this goal, seeking knowledge of
skills and techniques and those who could teach him and help mold him
for his purpose.

Now 19 years of age, Ancrym deems himself ready to begin. His last
teacher led him to the Windsong Abbey to study an ancient manuscript.
Once this task was completed, Ancrym took his leave from his teacher and
began a trip down the coast. He came to Sandpoint a few days ago. As he
interacted with the people there in the course of resupplying and taking
his room for the evening he became aware of a feeling of tension, a wary
look behind the eyes of the residents. Sensitive questioning revealed the
tale of the murders and darkness in the town's past, and Ancrym decided
to stay and participate in the celebration and recovery represented by
the dedication of the new chapel.

Ancrym typically fights with his quarterstaff in one hand and his nun-
chaku in the other, interspersing blows from either with strikes from
knees, feet and head. His style is flowing and fast.

[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri

Walking Dad said:


> Sivan is in the RG
> 
> @shayuri: Shall we link backgrounds. I could know you from my NPC contact Chaine (see my background).




We could try that...I'd need some more info though. Is Chaine a native of Sandpoint, or could he be the visiting wizard? If he's native, perhaps he 'referred' Talashia to the visitor when he wasn't sure what to do with her himself.

One thing to bear in mind is that Talashia was sent away when she was quite young...like 11 or 12. This is now years later.


----------



## Walking Dad

That is his old backstory. You can change what you want 

[sblock=Chaine]*Chaine, Varisian Wizard*. While there are a number of Varisian sorcerers (some quite famous, in fact) and a considerable amount of Varisian bards, there are very few Varisian wizards. The Varisians are travellers, and not generally suited to the more sedentary life of a scholarly wizard. After all, the Varisians tend to think, if the magic doesn't come naturally to you, why go hunting for it in books?

Chaine is something of an exception. Both of his parents were sorcerers, and even as an infant, Chaine held a deep fascination and abiding love for the wonders of arcana.

Unfortunately, Chaine completely lacked any sort of magical talent. His parents watched him closely, hoping that he'd begin to spontaneously manifest a cantrip or two, perhaps accidentally setting the caravan on fire the way his father had at that age. But Chaine seemed to have not even a glimmer of magical talent.

But during one fateful summer, as Chaine's caravan passed through the sleepy seaside town of Sandport, his life changed. At a local tavern, Chaine tried to pick the pocket of an elderly man who turned out to be a wizard. The old man scared Chaine off with a well-chosen illusion, but the young Varisian lad came back the very next day, his curiosity getting the better of him. He eventually befriended the old man, learning that there were other ways to command the powers arcane than simply being born with it. It could be learned! And what's more, it could be taught.[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri

My only concern is that it kind of messes up my backstory if Sandpoint has a thriving wizard community in it.


----------



## Ambrus

Sandpoint is a sizable community in a standard D20 fantasy setting; I'd be terribly surprised to learn that it doesn't already have a handful of known and lesser known NPC spellcasting wizards, sorcerers, bards and adepts living there. Maybe CB could take a look and offer up the name of an appropriate local NPC wizard around which the both of you can base your joint backgrounds. Making pre-existing connections with established NPCs always seems preferable to me.


----------



## jkason

Okay, I think Tac's done, or at least ready for vetting. I'm always sure I've bungled math somewhere. 

I think I wrote the Elyra connection such that it's clear Tac had no idea what was going on but Elyra did (and probably never told him). I actually like that bit a lot because it's a nice example of the 'ooh, shiny puzzle!' mindset I conceive Tac as having, which is the real reason he's Neutral. He's good at heart, but generally so preoccupied with whatever the next puzzle is, he just doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about morals or ethics. Thus the trouble he narrowly avoided with his family.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:


> You now occupy the first alternate position, if you're interested.  I may still have your e-mail address floating around--if space opens up, shall I e-mail you?





I recently moved and I'm currently easing back into gaming but I am interested in your game CB and alt works pretty well. I'll hold off on a character concept until one is needed. My email address has not changed.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

My two-year-old daughter wasn't feeling well today, so I haven't been able to continue reading through character sheets for most of the day.  Though, in between bouts of Tylenol and snuggling, I do seem to have somehow polished off the entire 420+ page book _Twilight_.  That's my (semi-) guilty pleasure for the week, I guess.  Nothing like a good teenage vampire romance novel...

I'll pick up with the character sheets after bedtime tonight.  Hang tight, folks.


----------



## Ambrus

Teenage vampire romance. Oh the angst... 

Hope the little one feels better soon.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm catching up on my posting.  I'm starting my replies to posts made on page 6, so since we're currently on page 8, please forgive any repetition on my part.


Shayuri said:


> It is at this time that a wizard and a few underlings from Magnimar are in town to study the standing stones and, it's believed, investigate the Old Light as well.



An investigation of the Old Light might not work...someone else material to this game has already laid claim to the Old Light, and outside investigations by visiting wizards might make "backstory trouble."  I'll double check my facts on the Old Light and get back to you.  The rest of the backstory for Talashia is no problem at all.  I'm working through the character repository in order and will post more comments for you about Talashia and stats when I come to her stuff in the repository thread.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> Sounds good to me. He's a first-level PC, so he can't have run it, but if this was, say, part of his final journeyman training, it connects him to the town, the temple, and gives him a reason to be ready to go anywhere else, since his job is now finished.



Sounds like a fine and dandy reason to be in town, and a good reason to be present at the temple re-dedication ceremony.  Your character shouldn't need more than perhaps just one rank in the engineering skill to be considered a journeyman.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> A note: Talashia has the basic mage skills (Spellcraft and Knowledge Arcana), but is not by any means "scholarly." It's unlikely she'd be sent alone to do more than simply observe and/or collect results, I'd think...unless the mage guilds are desperate for manpower.
> 
> Or unless there are mitigating circumstances.



Gads, ENWorld is slow tonight.  

Just confirming that there's no need for Talashia to be "scholarly," and I'm not planning on making any mage guilds a prominent feature of Sandpoint.  At present moment, the Turandarok Academy is a school for local children, not a wizard's academy.  While it's possible that that might change between today and the start of the game, it's unlikely.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Seriously, if you want to go that route, we could have them be siblings or cousins.  Have a look at her backstory and see what you think.  No reason they couldn't be strangers -- There must be some number of Varisians whose teen rebellion consisted of leaving their nomadic life to take up, er, a nomadic life.



Having them be siblings works for me.  As I've said in the past, the more ties you can generate to each other and the story, the better.


> As noted, I'll drop Elyra's Disable Device and pick up an alternative.  Are you leaning more toward a melee-centered rogue or a ranged one?



Just weighing in that dropping Disable Device is a good idea if the rogue plans to pick up that skill.  Then again, having two people in the party able to work on traps might not be all that bad...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> My dragon is a primary melee combatant, as is our half-orc cleric I believe.



Don't forget Walking Dad's paladin, Sivan.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> I had thought of Tac's tribe as a more honest lot, where he left them not because they were bad, but because his analytical mind just wasn't right for the instinctual, free-spirits of his kin.  But if you want to co-mingle backgrounds, I'd be all for that. And having a cousin in Sandpoint might give Elyra more reason to be visiting?
> 
> I haven't finished statting him, but at a thought: Tac didn't have the same moral dilemmas that Elyra had, but since he knew he didn't love performing so much as figuring out how things worked, maybe he begged to accompany Elyra when she left (I think he's going to be slightly younger than her)?  She took him along to keep an eye out for him, until he found apprenticeship in the engineering guildhalls.



There could have been more than one family in the circus, which would allow for both Elyra and Tac to leave together.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Are all our humans Varisian? If so it'd be good if everyone had Varisian as a language. I might be wrong, but I believe it's the default spoken language throughout Varisia.



Erm, I'm less sure of this than you appear to be.  I think the Chelaxians might strongly object to Varisian being the default language of the setting.  Then again, I certainly haven't kept up with the myriad supplements produced by Paizo since early 2008, so Varisian could well have been laid down as the default language.

Regardless, everyone having a language in common other than Common is a handy idea for those times when you want to converse semi-privately in a public atmosphere.  It's sometimes a rarity that a gaming group can converge abilities well enough to be able to pull it off, though.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mowgli said:


> Madam DM, I know you've closed recruiting (and even have a first alternate) but if a spot opens up for me I'd love to play a PF Monk. I'll put my idea here in a spoiler just in case something opens up in the future.



I'm going to make what amounts to one of the ultimate confessions in DMing.  I hate the monk class and I (apparently, having looked at my track record) never select monks to play in my PbP games.  I'll tack you on for second alternate after Voadam.  Thanks for posting your interest; if a spot opens up, I'll let you know, but will probably ask you to play something other than a monk.  If that's not your cup of tea, no problem!  

And I apologize to all the monk-lovers out there...please don't beat me up with a ninja stick


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> At a local tavern, Chaine tried to pick the pocket of an elderly man who turned out to be a wizard. The old man scared Chaine off with a well-chosen illusion, but the young Varisian lad came back the very next day, his curiosity getting the better of him. He eventually befriended the old man, learning that there were other ways to command the powers arcane than simply being born with it. It could be learned! And what's more, it could be taught.



Just confirming that I'm not planning on including a large contingent of wizards in Sandpoint.  Not that it couldn't turn into that down the road in a relatively short amount of time (due, in part, to how this adventure ends), but for right now while sizeable, Sandpoint doesn't have many arcane types.  There are a few notable exceptions, though.

I will certainly do a work-up on the "old man" you mention above.  Maybe he'll have a desire to float out to sea in a boat to catch the fish of his life...[/joke]...'cause Sandpoint's by the sea...and he's an old man...old man and the s---never mind.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Sandpoint is a sizable community in a standard D20 fantasy setting; I'd be terribly surprised to learn that it doesn't already have a handful of known and lesser known NPC spellcasting wizards, sorcerers, bards and adepts living there. Maybe CB could take a look and offer up the name of an appropriate local NPC wizard around which the both of you can base your joint backgrounds. Making pre-existing connections with established NPCs always seems preferable to me.




I wish to make it clear that if your character has no reason to know of any of the following NPCs (or their abilities), you shouldn't draw on this knowledge during gameplay.  That said, what follows below is a list of a few of the local NPCs who might be of interest as "spellcasting wizards, sorcerors, bards and adepts."  Not everyone on the list is a spellcaster.  But most could be tweaked by me to be older, male, or an older male.  Hope this helps.

*Brodert Quink* (human male expert in engineering...and other things).  Not a wizard but considered a "sage." Maintains a residence and "business" out of his home in Sandpoint.

*Risa Magravi *(human female arcane type).  Higher level than you lot, though during game play most of your characters won't know it.  Works out of a shop in Sandpoint called Risa's Place.  No, I am not making that up.  

*Aliver "Pillbug" Podiker* (human male adept).  Mixed Chelaxian/Varisian blood.  Seller of medicines and potions in Sandpoint.  Not described as an "old man" by the module, but this is easily modifiable if need be.

*Sabyl Sorn* (human female monk).  Maintains the House of Blue Stones (no, it's not a whore house, despite its name) in Sandpoint, a small local monastery.

*Chask Haladan* (male human bard).  Owner of The Curious Goblin, a bookshop in Sandpoint.  Described by the module as an aged man.

*Cyrdak Drokkus* (male human bard).  Owner of the Sandpoint Theater.  Probably middle-aged, but if need be could be an old man.

*Madame Mvashti* (human female low-level mystic theurge).  Fortune teller and oddball.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Erm, I'm less sure of this than you appear to be.



Oh, I don't actually know anything more about it than you do. My impression is simply that Varisia is largely populated by Varisians who speak varisian day to day; regardless of what the Chelish colonists might like to imagine. But yeah, that's just my impression.







CanadienneBacon said:


> Regardless, everyone having a language in common other than Common is a handy idea for those times when you want to converse semi-privately in a public atmosphere.



I just personally dislike the idea of PCs and society in general depending solely on common for everyday communication. I see common as being a rudimentary pidgin that traders and travelers use in a pinch to communicate simple ideas. Treating it as a fully developed language that everyone automatically knows makes being multilingual largely pointless. But that may just be me.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Teenage vampire romance. Oh the angst...



Indeed, delightfully angst-ridden.  Such a guilty pleasure, in fact, that when I tried to reserve the sequel to _Twilight _from the public library and discovered the wait list is 142 people long, I went out tonight and bought the sequel rather than wait.  I think I may have found my new "literature crack" for the month of June.

I may have to read some actual literature in July just to make up for it.  _Foucault's Pendulum_ has been calling my name for a while now.  Still, after having my nose stuck in a SQL, Java, or Information Systems Security textbook for the past year, I'm grateful to have time to enjoy a few guilty pleasures...like trashy vampire novels and D&D.  Ah, sweet nerdom.


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> Having them be siblings works for me.  As I've said in the past, the more ties you can generate to each other and the story, the better.




OK.  In Tac's write-up he listed them as cousins, which seems fine.  As indicated, Elyra took him to the guildhall, and the two have kept in touch ever since.




> Just weighing in that dropping Disable Device is a good idea if the rogue plans to pick up that skill.  Then again, having two people in the party able to work on traps might not be all that bad...




Hmmm...It does make sense for her to know the skills, I guess.  Maybe I'll edit that back in.  But I'll wait until you've vetted the current edition of the character sheet, if that's OK.  Would I still be able to count it as a class skill?


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Ah, sweet nerdom.



Welcome back. We missed you.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Now that I've finished responding to posts, I'll start the official vetting of characters.  I have time tonight to post comments for Ambrus's character, then I need to hit the sack for the day.  In the morning, I'll pick up where I left off.

[sblock=Ambrus]If you're not Ambrus, and you're reading this, you might consider clicking out.  Thanks.
[sblock]Okay, down to business.  What follows are my preliminary questions for you regarding Taran.  
1.  I'd like to see a scan, if possible, of the page/s from Dragon 320 that contain the write-up for the dragon progression that you'll be using for this game.  My subscription to Dragon cut off a couple of issues short of 320 (I think--they're all up in Indiana at the moment), so I'll be wanting your help on this.  If you're unable to provide the scan of the relevant material, please let me know and I'll see whether I can dig it up some other way.  A lot of my follow-on questions pertain to the racial stats.

2.  What are the racial ability score modifiers you're using?  I note you've spent 15 points building your PC but don't detect racial modifiers.

3.  I see in the PF RPG beta ruleset that skill points are determined by your class HD + 3 bonus skill points for ranks taken in class skills (plus other bonuses for being human and/or taking levels in a favored class).  Please let me know how you've allocated your skill points.  Dragon 320 pre-dates the beta ruleset, so I'm also wondering how you determined which "class" to use to settle on how many skill points with which to start play.

4.  What are the favored skills for a dragon?  Do you and I need to create such a list, or has Paizo conveniently taken care of this for us in a supplement?

5.  How'd you arrive at four languages (Common, Draconic, Thassilonian, Varisian)?  Do you get Common and Draconic for free, then get two more of your choice for a +2 in Int?

6.  How'd you arrive at Bite +4?  Base attack +1 and a +2 in Str seem to add up to Bite +3.  I'm missing something here and need some input.

7.  Not sure why Gather Information is listed separately from Diplomacy--I'd thought that the beta ruleset combined GI as a sub-function of Diplomacy.  If this is the case, then I'm doubly unsure why GI and Diplomacy are listed with separate skill modifiers.  Shouldn't they, at a minimum, be the same under the beta rules?

8.  Classic reference in Taran's background to Gorvi spotting Taran and thinking he'd seen the Sandpoint Devil.  It reinforces Gorvi's already dubious character within Sandpoint.

9.  Your background's got Taran making himself useful by chasing away marauding goblins...I'd like to work the adventure off the premise that goblins aren't in-town marauders and would be likely to be spotted only out in the wilds of the Hinterlands.  Unless Taran plans to range pretty far from Sandpoint, it would be unlikely that chasing away goblins figure into his "helpfulness."  It's a small point, I know, but it'll be necessary to create a feeling that goblins in Sandpoint are really far out of the norm.  

10.  What language are Taran and Risa Magravi using to speak together?  Does Risa know Taran isn't a rough collie?

11.  I need a specific number, in feet, for how well Taran can see in low light.  Got the 120 feet for darkvision, just need the lowlight vision stat to go with it.  [/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Hmmm...It does make sense for her to know the skills, I guess.  Maybe I'll edit that back in.  But I'll wait until you've vetted the current edition of the character sheet, if that's OK.  Would I still be able to count it as a class skill?



I'll wait to say more on this until after I've had a better look at Tal's character sheet.  Right  now, all I've done is read through everyone's backstory.  I always do that first before moving on to the more mundane stats.  Should be Wednesday or Thursday before I get to Tal.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> I may have to read some actual literature in July just to make up for it.  _Foucault's Pendulum_ has been calling my name for a while now.




It is a _fantastic_ book.


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=CanadienneBacon]







CanadienneBacon said:


> 1.  I'd like to see a scan, if possible, of the page/s from Dragon 320 that contain the write-up for the dragon progression that you'll be using for this game.



Sent.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 2.  What are the racial ability score modifiers you're using?  I note you've spent 15 points building your PC but don't detect racial modifiers.



Bronze dragons don't start with any ability score modifiers, though they do gain some later as a part their level advancement. The attribute bonuses are offset by the intermittent acquisition of hit dice, skill points, save modifiers and feats.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 3.  Please let me know how you've allocated your skill points.  Dragon 320 pre-dates the beta ruleset, so I'm also wondering how you determined which "class" to use to settle on how many skill points with which to start play.



In keeping with the MM, dragons gain 6 skill points (plus their Intelligence modifier) for each hit dice. The bronze dragon monster class is consistent with that. So, 6 skill points for my first hit dice, +2 from my Intelligence and +1 for taking a level in my favored class: dragon. I purchased 1 rank each in Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (religion), Linguistics, Perception, Survival and Use Magic Device. Taran is a budding scholar.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 4.  What are the favored skills for a dragon?



They're listed in the their MM writeup on dragons. They are: Listen, Search and Spot (which are folded together into Perception in Pathfinder), Concentration (which is folded into Spellcraft in Pathfinder), Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device. Disguise, Swim, and Survival are considered class skills for bronze dragons.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 5.  How'd you arrive at four languages (Common, Draconic, Thassilonian, Varisian)?



Draconic is free. I took Common and Varisian as my 2 bonus languages for high Intelligence. I gained Thassilonian by taking 1 rank in Linguistics.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 6.  How'd you arrive at Bite +4?  Base attack +1 and a +2 in Str seem to add up to Bite +3.  I'm missing something here and need some input.



What you're missing is the +1 on attack rolls for being small-sized. I forgot to add it to my AC now that I think of it.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 7.  Not sure why Gather Information is listed separately from Diplomacy--I'd thought that the beta ruleset combined GI as a sub-function of Diplomacy.



You're right. It's an oversight on my part. I got confused by taking the _Child of the Streets_ trait which erroneously grants a +1 bonus on Gather Information when it should in fact be a +1 to Diplomacy. Since I no longer need to buy a rank in Gather Information I'll instead apply it to Use Magic Device. I'll review my trait selection. Edit: I believe I'll take the _Absent Minded_ trait instead of _Child of the Streets_ if that's okay.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 9.  Your background's got Taran making himself useful by chasing away marauding goblins...I'd like to work the adventure off the premise that goblins aren't in-town marauders and would be likely to be spotted only out in the wilds of the Hinterlands



The Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide makes mention of goblins rummaging around in the junktoss bellow Junker’s Edge in the rumors section. _"Don’t go down to the junktoss after dark: goblins steal the trash at night."_ I simply assumed that there was an element of veracity to that rumor. I can change it if you prefer.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 10.  What language are Taran and Risa Magravi using to speak together?  Does Risa know Taran isn't a rough collie?



She's Varisian, so I figure they speak Varisian together. I imagined that Risa doesn't realize that she's speaking to anything other than a human since she's mostly blind. That was my reasoning in having her being the only person with whom Taran converses. Although he's somewhat evasive about himself I figure that he's allowed Risa to assume that he's a precocious Varisian local boy, perhaps an orphan, who simply enjoys listening to her stories.


CanadienneBacon said:


> 11.  I need a specific number, in feet, for how well Taran can see in low light.  Got the 120 feet for darkvision, just need the lowlight vision stat to go with it.



Taran has a dragon's keen senses (Ex), which means he sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. An exact distance in feet can't be given because it's dependent on the source of light in an area; as it is for any creature.

Edit: I'm toying with the idea of Taran having crafted his own leather barding (cut into the shape of scales) out of discarded scraps found in the Junktoss to supplement his own nonexistent natural armor. I'd pay for the base materials out of his starting funds of course. It'd depend on a perceived need for protection though; which I suppose wouldn't have occurred if he'd never had any run ins with goblins.[/sblock]


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

CanadienneBacon said:


> I'm going to make what amounts to one of the ultimate confessions in DMing.  I hate the monk class and I (apparently, having looked at my track record) never select monks to play in my PbP games.  I'll tack you on for second alternate after Voadam.  Thanks for posting your interest; if a spot opens up, I'll let you know, but will probably ask you to play something other than a monk.  If that's not your cup of tea, no problem!
> 
> And I apologize to all the monk-lovers out there...please don't beat me up with a ninja stick




Thanks! I like most all of the classes and am fine with playing one other than Monk. If a spot comes open I'll be happy to work up a different class.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]







Ambrus said:


> The Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide makes mention of goblins rummaging around in the junktoss bellow Junker’s Edge in the rumors section. _"Don’t go down to the junktoss after dark: goblins steal the trash at night."_ I simply assumed that there was an element of veracity to that rumor. I can change it if you prefer.



I lost my original post just now when I inadvertantly hit the back button on my Web browser, so this will be a condensed re-post that hits the highlights of what I wanted to say.  I spent 20 minutes last night hunting through the adventure module for where I thought I remembered seeing a tidbit about goblins around Sandpoint prior to the start of the adventure, to no avail.  Duh--no wonder I couldn't find it--it's in the Player's Guide, not the module.  Go right on ahead with your "barking at marauding goblins" tidbit in your backstory.

I'll wait to go over Taran's skill set until I know for sure that you've adjusted skill ranks to compensate for Gather Information being a sub-set of Diplomacy.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm seeing what may be some discrepancies in skill allocation in some of the character sheets.  I'll address any discrepancies with individual players, but before I do, I want to make sure that I myself have a firm grasp on how Pathfinder addresses skill allocation for first-level characters and for subsequent levels.  Of those of you who have seen play with Pathfinder, if you could please post with a breakdown of how skills work, I'd be appreciative.

My basic understanding is, for example, that a human druid with an Intelligence of 12 would start play at first level with 6 points to spend (4 points for being a druid, 1 point for having a 12 intelligence, and 1 point for being human--assuming he hasn't taken an extra hit point instead of the extra skill point).  As a 1 HD creature, the character could put only 1 rank in each skill he selects.  After selecting his skills, he would add a +3 bonus to each skill that appears on his favored skill list for his class.  The druid's finished skill list might look like this:

Handle Animal: +5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for Charisma of 12)
Heal:  +6 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +2 for Wisdom of 14)
Knowledge (nature): +5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for Intelligence of 12)
Perception: +6 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +2 for Wisdom of 14)
Spellcraft: +5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for Intelligence of 12)
Survival: +6 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +2 for Wisdom of 14)

If the human decides at first level that Druid will be his chosen favorite class, it looks like he woud start play with 7 skill points to spend.  His ranks will always be limited by his HD, however.

Let me know what flaws you spot in my logic, being sure to explain with examples.  And please also let me know what happens to this druid at 2nd level.


----------



## mfloyd3

> If the druid decides at first level that Ranger will be his chosen favorite class, it looks like he woud start play with 7 skill points to spend. His ranks will always be limited by his HD, however.
> 
> Let me know what flaws you spot in my logic, being sure to explain with examples. And please also let me know what happens to this druid at 2nd level.
> [\quote]
> 
> OK, I'm new to pathfinder as well, but let me take a stab at this.  You mix ranger and druid up there, but let me give you my understanding of each:
> 
> Druid:  4 points for being a druid, +1 for having 12 Int, +1 for being a human, +1 for choosing druid as a favored class =7.
> 
> Ranger:  6 points for being a ranger, +1 for having 12 Int, +1 for being human, +1 for choosing ranger as favored class=9.
> 
> These examples assume that the player chose to exercise the "+1 skill point" for favored class option, rather than the "+1 hit point" option.  That may be part of the inconsistency between characters.
> 
> And yes, the skill allocation you give (except for Spellcraft, noted below), including the +3 bonus for a skill from the favored class list, seems to be correct.
> 
> At second level, my understanding is that the druid gets 6 points, and the option to choose a skill point for the "favored class" bonus for a total of 7 skill points.  The ranger has a choice of getting 8 or 9.  It appears that you can make this choice over again at every level.
> 
> If the druid puts 1 rank into a new skill that is a class skill, he gets the +3 bonus to that as well.  For instance, if he puts a rank into Knowledge(geography), he gets
> Knowledge(geography):  5 (1 rank, +3 favored skill bonus, +1 for INT 12)
> 
> However, adding a rank to a skill he already has does not add additional favored class bonus, it just increases the skill by +1.
> 
> Also, a nitpick:  In your example above, Spellcraft should be +5 (+1 for his Int 12).
> 
> By the way, when you mentioned this, I noticed I listed 8 SP as the total for Elyra, but gave her 9.  My understanding is that 9 is the correct number, as calculated above (I think when I was originally writing the character sheet I was confused about the "favored class" issue myself).  Sorry about the confusion.
> 
> Anyway, I'm new to Pathfinder as well.  Anyone see anything wrong with the above?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> You mix ranger and druid up there, but let me give you my understanding of each



Fixed in an edit, posted just a few minutes before you posted this.  For coherency's sake, let's assume we're working with the druid example for the life of this conversation.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Let me know what flaws you spot in my logic, being sure to explain with examples.  And please also let me know what happens to this druid at 2nd level.



Seems you've got it right to me.

At 2nd level, the druid gains another 6 skill points (4 base, +1 Int, +1 for being human) with the option of taking an extra skill point or hit point assuming that druid is the favored class.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The basic formula would then be:

# Skill Points Allocated at 1st Level = class allocation + Int mod + 1 if human (assuming the human didn't already take +1 to his HP).

Correct?


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> The basic formula would then be:
> 
> # Skill Points Allocated at 1st Level = class allocation + Int mod + 1 if human (assuming the human didn't already take +1 to his HP).
> 
> Correct?



Not quite. At its base, the formula is simply *Class allocation + Int bonus*. In addition to that each character gains either +1 hit point or skill point if taking a level in their favored class.

Humans then gain an additional skill point as a racial trait. Clear?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*Hope I'm Not Intruding (Still Lurking)*

That's all correct, and the Druid then gets the same number of skill points (with the same choice of +1 skill point vs. +1 hp for taking a level in his favored class) each time he takes a Druid level.

It's also worth noting that the +3 bonus for class skills only kicks in when the character is trained in that skill (takes one rank).

Basically, this system simplifies calculations (while keeping the advantage of class skills) and removes the temptation to take a 'skill monkey' level at first to get that huge skill point advantage from the x4 multiplier. A PF rogue doesn't get any more skill points at first level than he will at any other level.

CB, if you'd rather I not kibbitz just let me know and I'll cut it out.


----------



## Shayuri

Not quite. Here's the breakdown as I understand it:

Class skill points (druid): 4
Intelligence modifier: 1
Human Bonus: 1
Favored Class Bonus: 1

Total skill points at 1st level: 7

Now, if the character opted for a bonus hit point instead of skill point, it would be 6 skill points at level 1.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm clear now.  Basic formula (I'm including stuff beyond just the class + Int model) would be:

Class allocation + Int mod + 1 if human and not taking bonus human HP + 1 if lvl in favored class.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Shayuri]Not Shayuri?  Click to close!

[sblock]I've gone through your character sheet.  What follows below are my questions.

1.  I'm not seeing an alignment listed on the sheet.  I think I did read somewhere in this thread, however, that you're planning to be either NG or CG.  Let me know.

2.  Ability scores look incorrectly allocated.  Everyone has 15 points to spend...I calculate you've spent 24 (plus got another two points to spend for lowering your Str to 8).  A lot of my comments are related to the ability score modifiers, which may be changing if I'm right and you haven't spent points according to the 15 point-buy allocation.  Let me know if I'm missing something here.

3.  Where'd you earn the Marial Weapon Proficiency (starknife) feat from?  I'm not seeing a clear source for it on your sheet.  I know you're playing a Varisian, but neither do I see in the adventure module or Player's Guide that explicitly states Varisians get the ability to use a starknife.  I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of you having it, I'd just like to know what I'm missing.

4.  I'm not seeing a Fly skill listed for Talashia, despite her Air Elemental bloodline granting her the Elemental Movement special ability of Fly.  Are you planning on adding this skill later?  

5.  With regard to the Charisma score of 18, which costs  whopping 17 points to buy and may prove to be beyond the reach of a 1st-lvl PC with only 15 points to spend, there are quite a few things tied to that 18 that may or may not need amending...base spellcasting DC, Bluff, Intimidate...let me know.

6.  Still waiting for the official background to make its way to the official character sheet.  Let me know when you have Description and Background fleshed out in full.
[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Almost - humans get +1 skill point at each level as a racial trait (there's not a choice between sp and hp for this one).

The +1 sp vs +1 hp is available to any race taking a level in their favored class.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mowgli, it might prove useful to me if you bowed out for the moment.  Thanks.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Did everyone note that once we moved from the 3.5 PHB to the PF beta ruleset, we also moved to a 15 point-buy for ability scores?  Unless I'm a huge dummy (always a possibility), I'm seeing some really inflated ability scores in ya'll's character sheets.  I'll do some more double-checking to see where we might have gotten our lines crossed on this issue.  

By all means, though, if you know what the devil's going on, please speak up.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

This is the ability score point-buy progression (p. 6 of the beta .pdf) that I'm under the impression everyone should be using:

Table 2–1: Ability Score Costs
Score Points
7  –4
8  –2
9  –1
10  0
11  1
12  2
13  3
14  5
15  7
16  10
17  13
18  17


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=CanadienneBacon]







CanadienneBacon said:


> 8.  Classic reference in Taran's background to Gorvi spotting Taran and thinking he'd seen the Sandpoint Devil.  It reinforces Gorvi's already dubious character within Sandpoint.



Glad you like it. I have to admit my secret hope that there isn't any real Sandpoint Devil as a part of the adventure. I'm rather fond of the idea that the rumors about it have their origins in the locals catching the occasional fleeting glimpse Taran's draconic progenitor and are now being perpetuated because of Taran's own presence. In essence, Taran *is* the "Sandpoint Devil".

I believe I'll take the _Absent Minded_ trait instead of _Child of the Streets_ if that's okay. Seems appropriate for a budding scholar. As for reassigning my skill point from Gather Information, I'm instead considering taking a rank in Knowledge (Dungeoneering).

I'm also toying with the idea of Taran having crafted his own leather barding (cut into the shape of overlapping scales) out of discarded scraps found in the Junktoss to supplement his own nonexistent natural armor. His Intelligence is sufficient to create leather armor by taking 10 on an untrained craft skill. I'd pay for the base materials out of his starting funds of course. It'd depend on a perceived need for protection; which I imagine Taran would have if he'd been introduced to the business end of a goblin's dogslicer once or twice. I'll likely aim to acquire masterwork studded leather or a mithral shirt eventually.[/sblock]


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> Did everyone note that once we moved from the 3.5 PHB to the PF beta ruleset, we also moved to a 15 point-buy for ability scores?  Unless I'm a huge dummy (always a possibility), I'm seeing some really inflated ability scores in ya'll's character sheets.




Doh!  I had Elyra's Cha wrong, I think the points add correctly now.  Sorry about that.


----------



## mfloyd3

Doh!  I had Elyra's Cha wrong, I think the points add correctly now.  Sorry about that.


----------



## Shayuri

[sblock=CB]Not CB?  Click to close!

[sblock]And my answers!

1.  I'm not seeing an alignment listed on the sheet.  I think I did read somewhere in this thread, however, that you're planning to be either NG or CG.  Let me know.

-- Oops, that was an oversight. I'm looking at Chaotic Good...though it may be her time at the school has mellowed her to Neutral. I will think on this and decide by the time I update with her background.

2.  Ability scores look incorrectly allocated.  Everyone has 15 points to spend...I calculate you've spent 24 (plus got another two points to spend for lowering your Str to 8).  A lot of my comments are related to the ability score modifiers, which may be changing if I'm right and you haven't spent points according to the 15 point-buy allocation.  Let me know if I'm missing something here.

-- You are missing the +2 to one stat that all humans get in Pathfinder. I only paid for a Charisma of 16, then boosted it to 18 with that bonus. I will make that clearer on my final sheet.

3.  Where'd you earn the Marial Weapon Proficiency (starknife) feat from?  I'm not seeing a clear source for it on your sheet.  I know you're playing a Varisian, but neither do I see in the adventure module or Player's Guide that explicitly states Varisians get the ability to use a starknife.  I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of you having it, I'd just like to know what I'm missing.

-- Humans in Pathfinder get a martial weapon proficiency as a racial trait. You should read the Race section. There are a lot of small, but noticible changes there. 

4.  I'm not seeing a Fly skill listed for Talashia, despite her Air Elemental bloodline granting her the Elemental Movement special ability of Fly.  Are you planning on adding this skill later?  

-- Yes. Her Fly power doesn't kick in until level 15, if I recall right. She has -plenty- of time to pick Fly up. 

5.  With regard to the Charisma score of 18, which costs  whopping 17 points to buy and may prove to be beyond the reach of a 1st-lvl PC with only 15 points to spend, there are quite a few things tied to that 18 that may or may not need amending...base spellcasting DC, Bluff, Intimidate...let me know.

-- See above.

6.  Still waiting for the official background to make its way to the official character sheet.  Let me know when you have Description and Background fleshed out in full.

-- I will post to the OOC thread when I have that update. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks for the comments! Hope I answered your concerns. 
[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=mfloyd3]If you're not mfloyd3, please get the heck outta here.  

[sblock]What follows below is my list of questions for you with regard to Elyra:

1.  I calculate that you've spent 22 points building Elyra.  Everyone was allowed 15 points to spend on ability scores.  Let me know what I might be missing here.  Many of my comments are predicated on the scores reflected on your current character sheet, which may in turn render a lot of other errors in other departments depending upon whether you've overspent.  In the ability score area, you also currently have a 14 Wisdom set to a +0 modifier when it should be +2 (but later in the sheet you've correctly used a +2 mod for Wis, so I'm guessing this is simple oversight not an actual error).  

2.  A throwing axe should have a critical multiplier of x2, not x3.  Again, let me know if you feel I've got this incorrect (with specific page number reference, if need be).

3.  You may need to adjust your attack and damage area to make the +1 to atk/dmg from Point Blank Shot more visible.  Either that, or just be sure to remind me that you have PBS during combat so that I don't miss giving you the benefit of having the feat.

4.  Let me know what sourcebook the Reactionary trait is from.

5.  You correctly, I think, spent 9 skill points on Elyra.  Might want (as you've already observed in another post of yours) to adjust the skill header so that it reads 9, instead of 8.

6.  Let me know why Perception is using a miscellaneous modifier of +5.  I'm seeing the +2 to Perception from the Alertness feat but am not sure where the other +3 is coming from.

7.  I saw you might have been working out some ties with other character/s.  Let me know what you've officially worked out (and then please include it in the background posted in the character repository for Elyra).[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]







Ambrus said:


> I believe I'll take the _Absent Minded_ trait instead of _Child of the Streets_ if that's okay. Seems appropriate for a budding scholar. As for reassigning my skill point from Gather Information, I'm instead considering taking a rank in Knowledge (Dungeoneering).



Both sound fine.


> I'm also toying with the idea of Taran having crafted his own leather barding (cut into the shape of overlapping scales) out of discarded scraps found in the Junktoss to supplement his own nonexistent natural armor. His Intelligence is sufficient to create leather armor by taking 10 on an untrained craft skill. I'd pay for the base materials out of his starting funds of course. It'd depend on a perceived need for protection; which I imagine Taran would have if he'd been introduced to the business end of a goblin's dogslicer once or twice. I'll likely aim to acquire masterwork studded leather or a mithral shirt eventually.



As long as you pay for the base materials out of his starting funds, leather barding isn't a problem.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Shayuri]







Shayuri said:


> 2.  Ability scores look incorrectly allocated.  Everyone has 15 points to spend...I calculate you've spent 24 (plus got another two points to spend for lowering your Str to 8).  A lot of my comments are related to the ability score modifiers, which may be changing if I'm right and you haven't spent points according to the 15 point-buy allocation.  Let me know if I'm missing something here.
> 
> -- You are missing the +2 to one stat that all humans get in Pathfinder. I only paid for a Charisma of 16, then boosted it to 18 with that bonus. I will make that clearer on my final sheet.




_Got it now, thanks for pointing that out.  Am now satisified that everything adds up as it should._



> 3.  Where'd you earn the Marial Weapon Proficiency (starknife) feat from?  I'm not seeing a clear source for it on your sheet.  I know you're playing a Varisian, but neither do I see in the adventure module or Player's Guide that explicitly states Varisians get the ability to use a starknife.  I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of you having it, I'd just like to know what I'm missing.
> 
> -- Humans in Pathfinder get a martial weapon proficiency as a racial trait. You should read the Race section. There are a lot of small, but noticible changes there.




_K, now I'm seeing it.  Too.much.new.data._



> Thanks for the comments! Hope I answered your concerns.



Ayup.  All clear.
[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm off to work, so must put a hold on posting.


----------



## jkason

Ambrus said:


> Are all our humans Varisian? If so it'd be good if everyone had Varisian as a language. I might be wrong, but I believe it's the default spoken language throughout Varisia.




I was just going over the Players Guide again, and that says humans of Varisian descent get Varisian as a bonus language. Does that mean it's just available to choose if you have the Int bonus, or that any Varisian starts with Common + Varisian + bonus languages from Int?

jason


----------



## Shayuri

A bonus language is known in addition to any languages gained any other way (by race, skill, class or intelligence).

For example, Druidic is a bonus language for druids. They get it no matter what.


----------



## Ambrus

Makes sense. If Varisians don't know their own native language then who does?

The term "bonus language" was used in 3.X to refer to the selection of languages from which a character could pick the extra languages granted to him by virtue of a high Intelligence score. But, looking over the the Beta playtest rules, Pathfinder seems to have done away with it as a game term; probably because the word "bonus" was misleading.

So that'd mean that every PC except the dragon and the half-orc get it for free. Neat.

Hm. I have to do a bit of research to figure out if my dragon is supposed to automatically know common or not.

Edit: The D20 SRD states plainly: "All characters know how to speak Common." It's unclear whether that's intended to apply to all PCs regardless of race or simply those included in the SRD. The Pathfinder Beta rules don't include any such unilateral mention. The entry for dragons in the SRD, in turn, only grants them Draconic automatically. So, in conclusion, I still dunno.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> A bonus language is known in addition to any languages gained any other way (by race, skill, class or intelligence).
> 
> For example, Druidic is a bonus language for druids. They get it no matter what.






Ambrus said:


> Makes sense. If Varisians don't know their own native language then who does?
> 
> The term "bonus language" was used in 3.X to refer to the selection of languages from which a character could pick the extra languages granted to him by virtue of a high Intelligence score. But, looking over the the Beta playtest rules, Pathfinder seems to have done away with it as a game term; probably because the word "bonus" was misleading.



Looking at the elf racial section in the beta ruleset, I note the following with regard to racial bonus languages:


> Languages: Elves begin play speaking Common and
> Elven. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose any
> of the following: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc,
> and Sylvan.




Looking at the cleric section in the beta ruleset, I note the following with regard to class bonus languages:


			
				PF Beta said:
			
		

> Bonus Languages: A cleric’s bonus language options
> include Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal (the languages of
> good, chaotic evil, and lawful evil outsiders, respectively).
> These choices are in addition to the bonus languages
> available to the character because of her race.



As far as class-related bonus languages go, you're still selecting out of a list of possibilities according to your character's Int bonus.  And it looks to me like it's the same as the 3.5 PHB for racial languages--each race is provided a list of bonus language options, from which a player may select one or more depending upon his character's Int bonus.  I wouldn't infer, from looking at the beta ruleset, that bonus languages are automatically granted.  Think of it this way--a character of Varisian blood may or may not have grown up knowing his roots, his culture, or his family's background.  There's little basis for an automatic assumption that he knows Varisian simply because he was born of Varisian blood.  

That said, it's dumb not to get what in this very specific case is a very specific subset of a language that makes a great deal of sense for a PC to possess.  So, yes, if you're Chelish, Varisian, or Shoanti, you get the bonus language of your race/sub-race for free.  If you so chose.  I can certainly see cases where someone would decline a language.  That decision, however, will remain yours as a player.  Is this an across the board thing that will apply to all bonus languages for all classes and races?  No way.  I don't think the beta rules support that idea.

If you want to press me on this a bit more, shoot an e-mail my way.  As always, you'll find me malleable if you make a good argument that I can buy into.  wlburford@hotmail.com


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've vetted and posted responses to three of the six character sheets.  I'll try to hit the next one tonight, and the last two tomorrow morning.  Since I've already composed my opening post for the actual gameplay thread, immediately following my review of the last character sheet, I will officially open the game for play.  Look for the game to begin mid- to late afternoon Thursday (tomorrow).

*Any kinks remaining in character sheets will need to be satisfactorily worked out prior to the first use of stats* (which usually but not always occurs during the first combat).  If your sheet's not complete (and this includes a background for your character) by the time I need to call on you for something specific, I'll pass on your turn until your sheet is done.  Most of you are waiting on me, rather than me waiting on you for stats, so this shouldn't be much of a problem for most of the group.


----------



## Shayuri

Regarding language:

I honestly thought I read in the Player's Guide that Varisians got the Varisian language for free. Reading it again, I now can't find that...therefore I apologize for my assertion above that it's so. I'm not sure now where I got the idea, but it seems not to be the case.

Sorry about that!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> Regarding language:
> 
> I honestly thought I read in the Player's Guide that Varisians got the Varisian language for free. Reading it again, I now can't find that...therefore I apologize for my assertion above that it's so. I'm not sure now where I got the idea, but it seems not to be the case.
> 
> Sorry about that!



Actually, I'm pretty sure that I read something about Varisian and the Varisian race, too...but the last time I was really into reading up on all my Pathfinder was Fall 2007, so it's hard to remember what tidbits were in which book, and where.  

I think it's also important to remember that we're dealing with a beta version of a ruleset that isn't yet published--there are bound to be inconsistencies in the beta that will (hopefully) see improvement by the time the official rulebook is released in August.  Since we're dealing with so many supplements in this game, some of which we're bound to confuse in our minds with the 3.x PHB, this probably isn't the last rules discussion we see where someone states, "X is true.  I saw it here," only to have someone else retort, "No, X is not true.  Y is true.  If you'll look in sub-section 19 of paragraph 8 of chapter 2 of Whidgamagidgit Rules Supplement..."

Personally, I try to go with what makes the most common sense for the specific situation.  This does, however, often lead to inconsistency.  C'est la D&D, eh?


----------



## mfloyd3

[sblock=CB]




> 1.  I calculate that you've spent 22 points building Elyra.  Everyone was allowed 15 points to spend on ability scores.  Let me know what I might be missing here.  Many of my comments are predicated on the scores reflected on your current character sheet, which may in turn render a lot of other errors in other departments depending upon whether you've overspent.  In the ability score area, you also currently have a 14 Wisdom set to a +0 modifier when it should be +2 (but later in the sheet you've correctly used a +2 mod for Wis, so I'm guessing this is simple oversight not an actual error).




I think you may be overlooking the +2 human bonus on Dex, so the 16 there actually costs 5.  That leaves:
13  3
16  5 (5 for 14, +2 human bonus)
12  2
12  2
14  5
8  -2

Total:17-2=15

I fixed the error next to Wis.



> 2.  A throwing axe should have a critical multiplier of x2, not x3.  Again, let me know if you feel I've got this incorrect (with specific page number reference, if need be).




Sorry, my mistake.  Fixed.



> 3.  You may need to adjust your attack and damage area to make the +1 to atk/dmg from Point Blank Shot more visible.  Either that, or just be sure to remind me that you have PBS during combat so that I don't miss giving you the benefit of having the feat.




Modified.



> 4.  Let me know what sourcebook the Reactionary trait is from.




It's from the "Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement."  As I write this, I realize I should have asked if that were fair game.  Sorry about that.  Here is the link:
http://files.meetup.com/1101323/Pathfinder Character Traits BETA.pdf





> 5.  You correctly, I think, spent 9 skill points on Elyra.  Might want (as you've already observed in another post of yours) to adjust the skill header so that it reads 9, instead of 8.







> 6.  Let me know why Perception is using a miscellaneous modifier of +5.  I'm seeing the +2 to Perception from the Alertness feat but am not sure where the other +3 is coming from.




+3 for class skill, +2 for Alertness feat



> 7.  I saw you might have been working out some ties with other character/s.  Let me know what you've officially worked out (and then please include it in the background posted in the character repository for Elyra).




OK, I'll finalize it and post the change.

Thanks,
Mark
[/sblock]


----------



## mfloyd3

JKason --

I was touching up Elyra's background a bit, and realized that with the connection between the characters I left the timeline a little tight.  I changed it so that Elyra has been on the road for 5 years rather than 3, which gives Tac a little more time for his apprenticeship.  If he's 17 now, he could have been 12-13 when Elyra took him to the guildhall (not long after she herself started on the road).  That seems like a more credible age to start an apprenticeship, and gives him a little more time to make journeyman status.  Sound OK?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=mfloyd3]







> I think you may be overlooking the +2 human bonus on Dex, so the 16 there actually costs 5.



Yup, I'd overlooked a lot of the tidbits in the chapter on race, the +2 bonus for humans included.  Looks all clear now, thanks for pointing out what I was missing.


> It's from the "Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement."  As I write this, I realize I should have asked if that were fair game.  Sorry about that.



No, that's fine.  It's certainly in keeping with the game.  I have the download already, just haven't read it.  As long as I know where the trait came from and can reference if need be, I'm good. 
[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Merlin's Shadow]  Not Merlin's Shadow?  Remove thyself, kind sir or madam![sblock]What follows is my list of questions about Grokk's character sheet.

1.  How'd you arrive at an AC of 16?  I tally +4 for the armor, +2 for the shield, and -1 for Dex, for a total AC of 15.  Let me know what I might be missing.

2.  Have you added in Grokk's Resistant Touch ability that he gets from the Protection domain to his saves?  I calculate his saving throws should be Fort +4 (base of 2, +1 for Con, +1 for the Resilient trait), Ref -1 (base of 0, -1 for Dex), and Will +5 (base of 2, +3 for Wis).  Let me know how you derived everything to be one point higher.  If it's from Resistant Touch and you plan to sometimes use Resistant Touch on an ally, then it might be better to separate the extra +1 from your standard saving throw stats.

3.  Concentration isn't a skill in Pathfinder beta.  Concentration got rolled into Spellcraft.  You may want to re-tool your skill list and the Skill Focus (Concentration) feat that you selected...swapping Concentration out for Spellcraft would work, but you are certainly free to adjust things how you deem best.

4.  I calculate that Knowledge (religion) should be +5, not +4.  Looks like you get 1 rank, + 3 for it being a class skill, and +1 for Int...total of +5.  Let me know why you've got it pegged at +4.

5.  Where is the Murky-Eyed flaw from?  Which supplement?

6.  Where are the traits Caretaker and Resilient from?

7.  What brings Grokk to Sandpoint?  What's his in-character reason and/or backstory for being in Sandpoint?
[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> [sblock=Merlin's Shadow]  Not Merlin's Shadow?  Remove thyself, kind sir or madam![sblock]What follows is my list of questions about Grokk's character sheet.
> 
> 1.  How'd you arrive at an AC of 16?  I tally +4 for the armor, +2 for the shield, and -1 for Dex, for a total AC of 15.  Let me know what I might be missing.
> 
> 2.  Have you added in Grokk's Resistant Touch ability that he gets from the Protection domain to his saves?  I calculate his saving throws should be Fort +4 (base of 2, +1 for Con, +1 for the Resilient trait), Ref -1 (base of 0, -1 for Dex), and Will +5 (base of 2, +3 for Wis).  Let me know how you derived everything to be one point higher.  If it's from Resistant Touch and you plan to sometimes use Resistant Touch on an ally, then it might be better to separate the extra +1 from your standard saving throw stats.
> 
> 3.  Concentration isn't a skill in Pathfinder beta.  Concentration got rolled into Spellcraft.  You may want to re-tool your skill list and the Skill Focus (Concentration) feat that you selected...swapping Concentration out for Spellcraft would work, but you are certainly free to adjust things how you deem best.
> 
> 4.  I calculate that Knowledge (religion) should be +5, not +4.  Looks like you get 1 rank, + 3 for it being a class skill, and +1 for Int...total of +5.  Let me know why you've got it pegged at +4.
> 
> 5.  Where is the Murky-Eyed flaw from?  Which supplement?
> 
> 6.  Where are the traits Caretaker and Resilient from?
> 
> 7.  What brings Grokk to Sandpoint?  What's his in-character reason and/or backstory for being in Sandpoint?
> [/sblock][/sblock]




[sblock=CB]This thread feels like it's turning into a super-ultra-top secret government document. 
 1. Whoops. Corrected.
2. I'll move it to a parenthetical. It's one of those things I know I would forget about if I didn't have it right there which is why I added it in.
3. Ack. Forgot about that change. I will just switch it to SF/Spellcraft.
4. I don't have an Int bonus. It's only 10. If you want to give me a free bump, though, I won't complain. 
5. Unearthed Arcana. It's also at the online SRD. 
6. These are from the Pathfinder traits .pdf that Ambrus linked to a few pages back.
7. I did add a brief bit about this to his background - "Grokk has come to Sandpoint with an interest in seeing the new church consecrated even if it is not his own faith. He also felt compelled to come as if his god was pushing him along." It's not much, but right now the character is more of a...feeling, than a concrete idea if you know what I mean. Part of it may be because I'm not too familiar with the setting, but I guess I'm trying to say that I have an understanding of the character, who he is and what he does, without having a firm grasp on his background right now. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. [/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

@ Merlin's Shadow.  Sounds good on all accounts.  Thanks for getting back to me so fast.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=jkason]If you are not jkason, then you should not be reading this.

[sblock]What follows is my list of questions about Tac's character sheet.

1.  I'm not entirely certain about the description of Acrobatic you've got on Tac's character sheet.  You've got, "Acrobatics: +3 fight defensive / +6 total defense."  PF beta rules list the Acrobatic (singular, not plural) feat as:


			
				PF Beta said:
			
		

> *Acrobatic*
> You are skilled at leaping, jumping, and climbing.
> Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Acrobatics and Fly
> skill checks. If you have 10 or more ranks in one of these
> skills the bonus increase to +4 for that skill.



Let me know what you mean by "Acrobatics," and where you're getting your info from.  

2.  Go ahead and take Varisian as a free bonus language for Tac.  You've written a backstory that supports doing so.  An Int of 12 nets you a choice of a third language, so let me know what you select.

3.  Just verifying...the Mathematical Prodigy trait is in the Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement, correct?  How about the Deft Dodger trait, where's that from?

4.  You've used a +2 Charisma modifier for Tac's Bluff skill, but his Charisma of 12 should only net him a +1 modifier.  Let me know if I've missed something.

5.  Elyra is lawful good.  Please get with mfloyd3 to make sure Elyra wouldn't negatively react to Tac's ability to "dismantle various locks."  I can see a case for a LG Elyra strongly objecting to the possible uses for Tac's ability to dismantle locks.  

6.  Thanks for going the extra mile to calculate encumbrance.[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

If your character is Chelish, Varisian, or Shoanti, you may take the corresponding human sub-race bonus language for free.

I really should have clarified this using stronger language, so it's not your fault.  If you elected to take traits, that's super.  You may take up to two traits, but if you take one or more traits, *you also need to take some kind of a flaw to balance things*.  Flaws are listed in Unearthed Arcana.  Flaws might also be listed in other supplements.  Hunt around a bit, if need be.  If you didn't take any traits, then you don't need to take a flaw.

If you can't find flaws in any source material within arm's reach, let us know.  I'm sure, between the lot of us, we can help you out.

I owe comments to Walking Dad for his paladin, Sivan. I'll do so in the morning.  Sivan is the last character I need to vet before we start play, so hang tight.  This game will be rolling out tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm not clear on the traits vs flaws house rule. Do we have to take a flaw for each trait or just one for both? Do the flaws then not grant their usual bonus feats? How many flaws are we allowed in all? As is I took two traits, a flaw and one bonus feat. Is that right?[sblock=All Flaws]Aligned Devotion    "Flaws for Clerics"    Dragon Magazine 326 (Page 91)
Arcane Conundrum    "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Arcane Fatigue        "Flaws for Wizards"    Dragon Magazine 333 (Page 94)
Arcane Parasites    "Flaws for Wizards"    Dragon Magazine 333 (Page 94)
Arcane Performer    "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Beady Eyes        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Beastly            "Flaws for Rangers"    Dragon Magazine 329 (Page 95)
Bestial Instinct    "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Blind Rage        "Flaws for Barbarians"    Dragon Magazine 325 (Page 93)
Brash            "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Bravado            "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Cautious        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Chicken Infested*    "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Chivalrous Courtesy    "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
City Slicker        "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Claustrophobia        "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Code of Arms        "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
Cold-Blooded        "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Corpse*            "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Coward            "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Curious            "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 43)
Delicious*        "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Dirt Farmer*        "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Divine Gestures        "Flaws for Clerics"    Dragon Magazine 326 (Page 91)
Domain Devotion        "Flaws for Clerics"    Dragon Magazine 326 (Page 91)
Elven Pride of Arms    "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Exhausting Rage        "Flaws for Barbarians"    Dragon Magazine 325 (Page 93)
Feeble            "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Foe Specialist        "Flaws for Rangers"    Dragon Magazine 329 (Page 95)
Fool            "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Forlorn            "Flaws for Wizards"    Dragon Magazine 333 (Page 94)
Forlorn of Men        "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Frail            "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Frail             "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Free-Spirited        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 43)
Frivolous Performer    "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Fussy            "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Glory-Hound        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Grudge Keeper        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Gullible        "Flaws for Barbarians"    Dragon Magazine 325 (Page 93)
Half-Blood Outcast    "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 43)
Hatred            "Flaws for Rangers"    Dragon Magazine 329 (Page 95)
Haunted            "Flaws for Sorcerers"    Dragon Magazine 327 (Page 93)
Honorable Challenge    "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
Honor of the Duel    "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
Hot-Blooded        "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Implacable        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Inattentive        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Incomprehensible Accent    "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Individualist        "Flaws for Rangers"    Dragon Magazine 329 (Page 95)
Insomniac        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 43)
Light Sensitivity    "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Lightweight        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Living Faith        "Flaws for Clerics"    Dragon Magazine 326 (Page 91)
Loner            "Flaws for Sorcerers"    Dragon Magazine 327 (Page 93)
Loudmouth        "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Love of Nature        "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Magical Fascination    "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 43)
Magical Overload    "Flaws for Sorcerers"    Dragon Magazine 327 (Page 93)
Material Devotion    "Flaws for Clerics"    Dragon Magazine 326 (Page 91)
Meager Fortitude    "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Metal Intolerance    "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Methodical Magic Method    "Flaws for Wizards"    Dragon Magazine 333 (Page 94)
Meticulous Performer    "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Mounted Warrior        "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
Murk-Eyed        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Nagging Cough*        "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
No Time For Books    "Flaws for Druids"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 93)
Noncombatant        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Obese            "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Pathetic        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Peasant Hat*        "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Phantom Sparks        "Flaws for Sorcerers"    Dragon Magazine 327 (Page 93)
Pig Bond*        "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Poor Reflexes        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Ponderous Spellcaster    "Flaws for Clerics"    Dragon Magazine 326 (Page 91)
Pride of Arms        "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
Quarter Elf        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Quick Burning Rage    "Flaws for Barbarians"    Dragon Magazine 325 (Page 93)
Restricted Sorcery    "Flaws for Sorcerers"    Dragon Magazine 327 (Page 93)
Shaky            "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Short Attention Span    "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 43)
Short of Breath        "Flaws for Wizards"    Dragon Magazine 333 (Page 94)
Short Temper        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Skulker            "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 44)
Slow            "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Slow Healing        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Slow To Anger        "Flaws for Barbarians"    Dragon Magazine 325 (Page 93)
Solitary Paragon    "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
Stubby Fingers        "Nobody's Perfect"    Dragon Magazine 328 (Page 42)
Superstitious        "Flaws for Barbarians"    Dragon Magazine 325 (Page 93)
Terrain Specialist    "Flaws for Rangers"    Dragon Magazine 329 (Page 95)
Test Subject        "Flaws for Wizards"    Dragon Magazine 333 (Page 94)
Trivial Performer    "Flaws for Bards"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 98)
Uncontrollable Rage    "Flaws for Barbarians"    Dragon Magazine 325 (Page 93)
Unimportant NPC*    "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Unreactive        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Vulnerable        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 91)
Warrior of the Phalanx    "Flaws for Paladins"    Dragon Magazine 324 (Page 96)
Weapon Bound        "Flaws for Clerics"    Dragon Magazine 326 (Page 91)
Weak Will        "Common Flaw"        Unearthed Arcana (Page 92)
Weresheep*        "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)
Wild            "Flaws for Rangers"    Dragon Magazine 329 (Page 95)
XP Farm*        "Flaws for Commoners"    Dragon Magazine 330 (Page 87)

*You have to be a 1st level commoner to take this feat.[/sblock]


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> You may take up to two traits, but if you take one or more traits, *you also need to take some kind of a flaw to balance things*.  Flaws are listed in Unearthed Arcana.




Sorry, I didn't understand this.  I looked over the flaws in Unearthed Arcana and didn't see any that fit well, and I was never that excited about the traits either.  So, I just revised the character sheet and eliminated the traits.

I think everything on Elyra's sheet is up to date, and GM-compliant at this point.  Let me know if there are any more problems.

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> I'm not clear on the traits vs flaws house rule. Do we have to take a flaw for each trait or just one for both? Do the flaws then not grant their usual bonus feats? How many flaws are we allowed in all? As is I took two traits, a flaw and one bonus feat.



I'm basically looking for a smidge of balance.  If you take one or more traits, you need to take one flaw.  Again, I didn't make this explicit in my original statements about traits, so it's certainly not your fault for not realizing.  You're not mind readers!  Breaking this down...

0 traits = 0 flaws
1 trait = 1 flaw
2 traits = 1 flaw

If you want to take a flaw without taking a trait, that's fine.  Up to two flaws allowed.  You'd get the usual bonuses from taking a flaw.  I believe Ambrus mentioned a bonus feat, which rings a bell.  

And if you find the whole mess not worth bothering with, I completely understand.  I myself probably wouldn't use traits if I were the one making a character--I like my PCs to be simple.  When Paizo was publishing Burnt Offerings, it felt like a bit of a death sentence to 3.5.  I allowed so many rules supplements for this game because I wanted to celebrate everything that is/was 3.5.  Not my normal operating mode, but I think we can make it work with a minimum of disgust.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, I'm content with your character sheet as is.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm considering taking the Shaky flaw in exchange for the Improved Multiattack feat.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That's fine.  Just don't get too carried away wth adding stuff, please.

You know, I had been thinking going into this that this might be the last PbP I DM.  While I was getting cleaned up this morning, however, I had an idea to run a game that didn't use any sourcebooks at all for character creation.  I'd adjudicate the story according to whichever singular rulesbook I was using, but players would be given true carte blanche to create a PC.  What if I just said, "Hey, here's the background on the game, you can reasonably expect these kinds of situations during play, make a character but do so without using a rulebook."  

I think it might force people to think more about the kind of character they play rather than considering just the numbers and making the background fit the numbers.  This may sound counterintuitive, but I'd also lay money that  people would suddenly get a lot more conservative with their stats.


----------



## mfloyd3

I used to play in a PBEM game where the GM made the character sheets based on character history, and the players never saw them.  We got a great collection of players, and some very solid backgrounds.  Though the game lasted less than a year before the GM had to quit for personal reasons.

To this day, I'm not 100% sure the sheets existed.  Not that it matters, I had a good time.


----------



## jkason

[sblock=CB]If you are not CanadienneBacon, then you should not be reading this[sblock]







CanadienneBacon said:


> 1.  I'm not entirely certain about the description of Acrobatic you've got on Tac's character sheet.  You've got, "Acrobatics: +3 fight defensive / +6 total defense."  PF beta rules list the Acrobatic (singular, not plural) feat as:
> 
> Let me know what you mean by "Acrobatics," and where you're getting your info from.




Sorry about that. It's from the new Acrobatics skill description (page 56 PFRPG):







> Special: If you are proficient in the Acrobatics skill, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4.



 I think proficient is the same as 'trained,' but I can't seem to find any specific definition in the ruleset.



> 2.  Go ahead and take Varisian as a free bonus language for Tac.  You've written a backstory that supports doing so.  An Int of 12 nets you a choice of a third language, so let me know what you select.




Dwarven seemed the best choice, since he's a builder, so I went with that.



> 3.  Just verifying...the Mathematical Prodigy trait is in the Pathfinder Character Traits Web Enhancement, correct?  How about the Deft Dodger trait, where's that from?




I was using the online version of the rules someone linked to here. Looks like they both come from a Paizo character traits PDF. But given that I misunderstood and would need to take two flaws to balance them out, I'm thinking of scrapping both of them. 

I'm wondering, could I 'trade' one of Tac's standard class skills for Know: Engineering as a class skill? Given his obsessive bent when it comes to 'ooh! shiny machine!' I can't imagine he'd be up on any kind of local information, or even especially good at gathering it, so could I give up Know: local or Diplomacy (which now contains Gather Information) for Class proficiency in Engineering? It's not likely to be an especially useful skill, but it just seems weird given his background that he wouldn't have it.



> 4.  You've used a +2 Charisma modifier for Tac's Bluff skill, but his Charisma of 12 should only net him a +1 modifier.  Let me know if I've missed something.




No, that was me. I originally had his Int lower and his Cha higher (thinking he'd have to Bluff his way through Engineering without the class skill bonus), then changed them, and I must have had the old Cha stuck in my brain. Should be fixed now. Sorry about that.



> 5.  Elyra is lawful good.  Please get with mfloyd3 to make sure Elyra wouldn't negatively react to Tac's ability to "dismantle various locks."  I can see a case for a LG Elyra strongly objecting to the possible uses for Tac's ability to dismantle locks.




I'll post a followup after this to straighten that out with mfloyd3. I think I have a quick-fix that'll make it work and also be a little fun RP-wise. 



> 6.  Thanks for going the extra mile to calculate encumbrance.




No problem at all. Glad it helps. 

[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> That's fine.  Just don't get too carried away wth adding stuff, please.



That'd be about it for me. I can't think of anything else I _could_ add.



CanadienneBacon said:


> I had an idea to run a game that didn't use any sourcebooks at all for character creation.  I'd adjudicate the story according to whichever singular rulesbook I was using, but players would be given true carte blanche to create a PC.



I'm a little sketchy on what you're proposing exactly. Do you mean that character creation would solely involve writing a background with no game mechanics at all?







CanadienneBacon said:


> I think it might force people to think more about the kind of character they play rather than considering just the numbers and making the background fit the numbers.  This may sound counterintuitive, but I'd also lay money that  people would suddenly get a lot more conservative with their stats.



My process for creating a character is to first come up with a concept; "I want to play a dragon", figuring out how best to accomplish it within the rules; "but the only way to play a true dragon is to use the monster class progression featured in D.M. 320", and then to develop a character background that incorporates the details/limitations mandated by those rules; "so I'm a small-sized hatchling who can't yet fly or breathe fire; I guess I'd best figure out why I'm not in a nest with my parents watching over me."

I don't really see any reasonable way to circumvent that process. If I were able to just skip the mechanics part then I'd just create a huge-sized adult dragon with all the draconic bells and whistles.


----------



## jkason

[sblock=mfloyd3]CB expressed some concern that Elyra might respond especially strongly to Tac dissasembling locks, given her alignment. I figured I could add a bit in the background where Elyra made him agree not to take locks apart (with a coursework exception, I suppose) if she agreed to take him to the guildhall? I figure that way Elyra's alignment needs are met, and we have a nice RP setup if there's cause for lockpicking in the adventure, as Tac has to get special permission from his cousin.  What do you think?[/sblock]


----------



## mfloyd3

[sblock=jkason]


jkason said:


> CB expressed some concern that Elyra might respond especially strongly to Tac dissasembling locks, given her alignment. I figured I could add a bit in the background where Elyra made him agree not to take locks apart (with a coursework exception, I suppose) if she agreed to take him to the guildhall? I figure that way Elyra's alignment needs are met, and we have a nice RP setup if there's cause for lockpicking in the adventure, as Tac has to get special permission from his cousin.  What do you think?




Sure, that sounds good.  My read on it when I saw it in your background -- Which I think was your intention -- Was that Elyra felt the need to "save" her cousin from being exploited by the family.  So yes, her making him promise never to pick locks is consistent.

By the way, to give you another side to the relationship (which perhaps I can add to Elyra's background), Elyra is hugely proud of her cousin.  She explores everywhere, and among the things that impress her are the ruins and monuments left behind by the old civilizations.  Her cousin *makes* these, and they are going to be there long after her footprints have washed away.  Privately, she thinks taking him to the guildhall might be the most significant thing she ever does with her life.  And if she ever saw him trying to throw that away by slipping into crime, she would slap him on the side of the head!

Of course, given that she's not good at expressing herself, and Tac's pretty oblivious, it's safe to assume he knows nothing about this.

Sound good?

[/sblock]


----------



## Ambrus

So, aside from Tac, has any PC been residing in Sandpoint over the past three or four years?


----------



## jkason

[sblock=mfloyd3]







mfloyd3 said:


> Sure, that sounds good.  My read on it when I saw it in your background -- Which I think was your intention -- Was that Elyra felt the need to "save" her cousin from being exploited by the family.  So yes, her making him promise never to pick locks is consistent.




Just what I was thinking. Cool.



> By the way, to give you another side to the relationship (which perhaps I can add to Elyra's background), Elyra is hugely proud of her cousin.  She explores everywhere, and among the things that impress her are the ruins and monuments left behind by the old civilizations.  Her cousin *makes* these, and they are going to be there long after her footprints have washed away.  Privately, she thinks taking him to the guildhall might be the most significant thing she ever does with her life.  And if she ever saw him trying to throw that away by slipping into crime, she would slap him on the side of the head!
> 
> Of course, given that she's not good at expressing herself, and Tac's pretty oblivious, it's safe to assume he knows nothing about this.




Oooh. I really like this. Tac idolizes Elyra without realizing how proud she is of him in return. I love it. [/sblock]


----------



## jkason

[sblock=CB]I added the following to Tac's section on Elyra:

'She did ask the odd boon of his promise never to dismantle another lock (outside of coursework) in return, but Tac was only too eager to agree.'

This way, Elyra's alignment is satisfied without letting Tac in on what was really going on with his family. It also provides a neat RP element in Tac needed to ask Elyra's permission if the adventure requires lockpicking. 

Also, given how many elements of Tac's background make him kind of oblivious to people, I think I made a mistake choosing Sense Motive for his skills. Would you mind if I took Linguistics in its place? I'd probably pick Chelaxian as the language from that rank if so, given Magnimar is Chelaxian and it could arguably be the language many of his texts would have been in.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason, if you take one trait, you need to take a flaw.  If you take two traits, you still only owe me just the one flaw.  So if, for example, someone decides to bite the bullet and go ahead and take one trait, they might as well just take a second trait, too, becuase it's essentially "free" to take the second trait.  I'm only looking to see one flaw on your character sheet, and even then only if you've taken one or two traits.

If you want to swap out a class skill and take Knowledge (engineering) in its stead, I'm fine with that.  Let me know what you decide.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, Shayuri, mfloyd3, Merlin's Shadow, and jkason:  I've vetted your character sheets and have read your responses to my questions.  Have I given you guys a second round of feedback?  I think I've gotten everyone covered on a second round of feedback but it's possible I missed someone or something.  If you're still waiting for me to reply to something you mentioned or asked, give me a nudge today.

Walking Dad, I'm fixing to sit down and review Sivan in detail.  Will probably have a post up for you within the next two hours.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> If I were able to just skip the mechanics part then I'd just create a huge-sized adult dragon with all the draconic bells and whistles.



Well, I dunno.  I don't know that you would.  You never know, you might just decide _not_ to pull out all the stops.

More specifically, what I mean is that if you wanted a mechanic for your character, you'd have to write it yourself.  Skills, feats, the works.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Well, I dunno.  I don't know that you would.  You never know, you might just decide _not_ to pull out all the stops.



Not sure. To be honest I really enjoy making characters within the rules. It's fun to see what can be created when the rules are properly massaged. But also, the rules occasionally throw a curve ball and impair a character in interesting and unexpected ways which in turn force one to be creative in figuring out how the character came to be that way. My dragon for instance, he's severely limited in his abilities when compared to an average wyrmling; he can't even *fly*. But why? I have some ideas to explain that oddity, which in turn sparks some potentially fun role-playing opportunities.


----------



## Shayuri

CanadienneBacon said:


> Ambrus, Shayuri, mfloyd3, Merlin's Shadow, and jkason:  I've vetted your character sheets and have read your responses to my questions.  Have I given you guys a second round of feedback?  I think I've gotten everyone covered on a second round of feedback but it's possible I missed someone or something.  If you're still waiting for me to reply to something you mentioned or asked, give me a nudge today.
> 
> Walking Dad, I'm fixing to sit down and review Sivan in detail.  Will probably have a post up for you within the next two hours.




In my case you were waiting on me to provide some updates.

That wait is now over.

Talashia's updated. Alignment, description, a better accounting of attribute points, and a background have been added. The background may change if another player wants to link up, but probably not by much.


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> jkason, if you take one trait, you need to take a flaw.  If you take two traits, you still only owe me just the one flaw.  So if, for example, someone decides to bite the bullet and go ahead and take one trait, they might as well just take a second trait, too, becuase it's essentially "free" to take the second trait.  I'm only looking to see one flaw on your character sheet, and even then only if you've taken one or two traits.
> 
> If you want to swap out a class skill and take Knowledge (engineering) in its stead, I'm fine with that.  Let me know what you decide.




Honestly, I only took the trait to make Know: engineering in-class. I have no burning need for the other bonuses (but before I realized the flaw restriction, it seemed silly to pass them up  ), so if you're okay with the skill-swap, I'll just dump the traits to make things simpler. 

Know: local is arguably a more useful skill but doesn't much fit the character concept, so if that's okay, Tac will trade that in for 'in-class' Engineering.

Only thing I think I have left is that I was going to drop Sense Motive and take Linguistics instead (adding Chelaxian as his rank language). The more I thought about it, the less sense it makes for him to have a good Sense Motive score given how oblivious he was to his family's motives / Elyra's real reasons for taking him / etc. If that's okay, let me know and I think Tac will be ready.

jason


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Walking Dad]Old man with a stick:  _Get outta my yard, you kids who ain't Walking Dad!!!_[sblock]Yay!  Almost ready to play!  Here are my questions regarding Sivan.  Thanks for waiting for me to get to you.

1.  Even accounting for the +2 to Strength that you selected as your ability score boost for being human, I calculate that you've spent 18 points building Sivan's ability scores.  Let me know if you feel I've got this wrong, but if I'm right, then you're over your allotment by 3 points and will need to get creative about a fix.

2.  Let me know why you list Sivan's CMB as +4/+8.  I get the +4.  I'm not sure why you also have the +8.

3.  Just confirming...between the extra skill point or extra hit point for taking a favored class, you went with the extra hit point, right?

4.  Sivan's character sheet lists a +1 Misc modifier on his Will save.  Why?  

5.  The background you wrote for Sivan supports the idea that he'd know Varisian.  Since I declared a few posts up that Varisian is a freebie for humans who are of the Varisian sub-race, you get Varisian for free.  Let me know how you allocate his third language.

6.  How'd you get three feats?  I count one for being first level and one for human.  Not sure where the third feat is coming from.  Let me know.

7.  Diplomacy looks like it should be +6, not the +5 you have listed on Sivan's sheet.

8.  You also get more money.  Paladins in PF beta use 5d6 x 10 for their starting gold.  Since we're going with max gold, that's 300 gp.  I calculate that you've spent 219 gp, which means you should have 81 gp left, not 21 gp.

9.  Since renau1g elected to forego this game, we no longer have Chaine as a character.  You'll need to amend your background for Sivan.  I'd also like you to include a tidbit explaining how Sivan fits in with the group (if he doesn't know anyone yet, that's okay, but you need to clarify), and why he's in Sandpoint.  Let me know.
[/sblock][/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason--your suggested changes for Tac are all reasonable.  Go for it.


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> jkason--your suggested changes for Tac are all reasonable.  Go for it.




Cool. I think Tac should be all done, then.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The game is now officially open and ready for your posting pleasure.

CB's Pathfinder Beta -- Burnt Offerings


----------



## Ambrus

I really like the evocative introduction and the dialogue between Elyra and Tac. It feels like there's some genuine familial affection there. All in all a great start. Kudos. 

CB, I imagine that the Pathfinder module includes some spiffy artwork of NPCs and notable locations. Might it be possible for you to share it with us when appropriate, perhaps by scanning and posting images to the game thread? Pretty please?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

What, no puppy dog eyes?

I'll do my best.  My Web-fu seems to be a bit lacking these days--several key features that ENWorld used to boast (notably, thread downloads) seem to be lacking in the new php platform that ENWorld now uses.  I also had to get a new computer back in September--our old computer had its motherboard eaten by the combination of Hawaiian sea air and months stuffed in a shipping crate when we moved.  I lost quite a bit of material and software when the old computer's motherboard rusted.

What I may do is "cheat" and scour the Web to see if somebody else has already scanned and cut down to the size some of the portraiture in the module.  If I'm going to post art, I don't want to post hog-sized pictures in the threads.  I'll aim for compact.


----------



## Shayuri

Apologies if I'm dense, but did Talashia wind up coming to Sandpoint alone, or does she have someone who's assocaited with her there too?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'd been waiting for you or one of the others to definitely state that you had traveled together, but no one seems to have spoken up in point-blank fashion.  Probably the best thing to do would be to just go ahead and post in a singular fashion in the IC thread, and then later if you've worked it out with someone (the cleric and/or the paladin come to mind) to have traveled together, you can write it into the IC that you "meet back up after having been separated for the day."


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> What I may do is "cheat" and scour the Web to see if somebody else has already scanned and cut down to the size some of the portraiture in the module.



Looking around a bit, this site seems to have what you're looking for.


----------



## Walking Dad

CanadienneBacon said:


> [sblock=Walking Dad]Old man with a stick:  _Get outta my yard, you kids who ain't Walking Dad!!!_[sblock]Yay!  Almost ready to play!  Here are my questions regarding Sivan.  Thanks for waiting for me to get to you.
> 
> 1.  Even accounting for the +2 to Strength that you selected as your ability score boost for being human, I calculate that you've spent 18 points building Sivan's ability scores.  Let me know if you feel I've got this wrong, but if I'm right, then you're over your allotment by 3 points and will need to get creative about a fix.
> 
> 2.  Let me know why you list Sivan's CMB as +4/+8.  I get the +4.  I'm not sure why you also have the +8.
> 
> 3.  Just confirming...between the extra skill point or extra hit point for taking a favored class, you went with the extra hit point, right?
> 
> 4.  Sivan's character sheet lists a +1 Misc modifier on his Will save.  Why?
> 
> 5.  The background you wrote for Sivan supports the idea that he'd know Varisian.  Since I declared a few posts up that Varisian is a freebie for humans who are of the Varisian sub-race, you get Varisian for free.  Let me know how you allocate his third language.
> 
> 6.  How'd you get three feats?  I count one for being first level and one for human.  Not sure where the third feat is coming from.  Let me know.
> 
> 7.  Diplomacy looks like it should be +6, not the +5 you have listed on Sivan's sheet.
> 
> 8.  You also get more money.  Paladins in PF beta use 5d6 x 10 for their starting gold.  Since we're going with max gold, that's 300 gp.  I calculate that you've spent 219 gp, which means you should have 81 gp left, not 21 gp.
> 
> 9.  Since renau1g elected to forego this game, we no longer have Chaine as a character.  You'll need to amend your background for Sivan.  I'd also like you to include a tidbit explaining how Sivan fits in with the group (if he doesn't know anyone yet, that's okay, but you need to clarify), and why he's in Sandpoint.  Let me know.
> [/sblock][/sblock]




[sblock=CanadienneBacon]
1. I listed the point cost behind the abilities:
Str: 16 +3 (5p.)
Dex: 13 +1 (3p.)
Con: 14 +2 (5p.)
Int: 12 +1 (2p.)
Wis: 10 +0 (0p.)
Cha: 14 +2 (5p.)

5 in Str are 14 +2 racial

2. +8 defensive from the 'Defensive Combat Training' feat.

3. Yes, I took the extra HP.

4. County Born Trait. Will be deleted as you are not giving a free trait.

5. Would like to take celestial.

6. County Born Trait. Will be deleted as you are not giving a free trait.

7. You are right, should be +6

8. Oh... will pehaps upgrade the equipment a bit. Thanks.

9. Would like to stay with my background. Chaine would become a very minor NPC and (an excuse for) Sivan's my connection to Shayuri's character.
[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Walking Dad]







> 1. I listed the point cost behind the abilities:
> Str: 16 +3 (5p.)
> Dex: 13 +1 (3p.)
> Con: 14 +2 (5p.)
> Int: 12 +1 (2p.)
> Wis: 10 +0 (0p.)
> Cha: 14 +2 (5p.)
> 
> 5 in Str are 14 +2 racial



It still adds up to more than the allotted 15 points that I gave everyone.  You spent 5 points to get a 14 Strength, to which you then added +2 (no problems there, you can do that because you're playing a human), you spent 3 points to get a 13 Dex, 5 points to get a 14 Con, 2 points to get a 12 Int, no points on Wis, and then spent 5 points to get a 14 Cha.  5 + 3 + 5 + 2 + 0 + 5 = 20 points.  Again, aside from the +2 to Strength, you still seem to be over the limit.  Let me know what, specifically other than Str, I might be missing.



> 9. Would like to stay with my background. Chaine would become a very minor NPC and (an excuse for) Sivan's my connection to Shayuri's character.



I can do that, sure.  If you have any ideas about Chaine, let me know so that I can include your ideas in my work-up of Chaine as an NPC.
[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, is your collie sable or tawny?

I just noticed that you used the term "sable" in your first post in the IC.  I'd had it stuck in my head ever since character conception that the collie is a tawny lion-colored beige, and posted the word "tawny" in my reply to Taran's quest for food.  

I see that you played off my use of tawny, which was kind of you, but if you'd rather the collie be sable, let me know.


----------



## Ambrus

I was using the term sable in the dog breeder's sense. In regards to rough collies, "sable" includes those that are tawny.







			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Three coat colors are recognized for Rough Collies: sable and white, where the "sable" ranges from pale tan to a mahogany; tricolour, which is primarily black edged in tan; and blue merle, which is mottled gray.



I'll admit that it could lead to some confusion; sable meaning tan, blue meaning gray, etc. That's in part why I adopted your use of tawny to describe Kell's color. Maybe I should just change my character description to simplify the matter.


----------



## Walking Dad

CanadienneBacon said:


> [sblock=Walking Dad]
> It still adds up to more than the allotted 15 points that I gave everyone.  You spent 5 points to get a 14 Strength, to which you then added +2 (no problems there, you can do that because you're playing a human), you spent 3 points to get a 13 Dex, 5 points to get a 14 Con, 2 points to get a 12 Int, no points on Wis, and then spent 5 points to get a 14 Cha.  5 + 3 + 5 + 2 + 0 + 5 = 20 points.  Again, aside from the +2 to Strength, you still seem to be over the limit.  Let me know what, specifically other than Str, I might be missing.
> 
> I can do that, sure.  If you have any ideas about Chaine, let me know so that I can include your ideas in my work-up of Chaine as an NPC.
> [/sblock]




[sblock=CanadienneBacon]
Excuse my moment of blindness 
Str: 16 +3 (5p.)
Dex: 12 +1 (2p.)
Con: 14 +2 (5p.)
Int: 12 +1 (2p.)
Wis: 10 +0 (0p.)
Cha: 11 +1 (1p.)

So, looks better. And I don't need to change the diplomacy total 
[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Everything looks good now, Walking Dad.  Thanks for replying so quickly.

ALL--Shayuri is looking for a connection to some of the others in the party.  Anyone interested in working something out with Talashia the sorceress?  It's not too late to forge a bond.  As I suggested to Shayuri, perhaps you traveled together to Sandpoint but separated for the day during the festivities.  Ya'll have a couple of days to work this out before we settle into roles.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Maybe I should just change my character description to simplify the matter.



As long as you're content with things, I don't think you need to change the description.  I simply wanted to make sure I hadn't encroached upon your idea of what your character looks like.  Black has a much different connotation than does fawn.  If you're okay with tawny and are using the term sable to refer to tan/fawn/tawny, then it's all good.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> ALL--Shayuri is looking for a connection to some of the others in the party.  Anyone interested in working something out with Talashia the sorceress?



Seeing as how she hasn't been in Sandpoint since my character first arrived, I don't see that there's any possible connection there; unless it's with the family she left behind.

It's my impression that everyone else is new to Sandpoint, except for Tac whose been living here at least as long as my PC. Having been curious about the temple being constructed, we could say that Tac is familiar with the collie who's been lurking around the construction site on and off for the past few years. I'll even let Jkason pick a name that the guildsmen know him by if interested.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus posted this (directed at Shayuri) in the IC:


> Kell catches sight of an unfamiliar young woman with strikingly white hair who seems to have some interest in him. Might she be gracious enough to supply him with his next piece? The collie furrows its brow as it looks up at her imploringly.
> 
> OOC: Puppy dog eyes™, Diplomacy +4.



Shayuri, this wasn't a Diplomacy roll directed at the DM, so feel free to roll it on your end and react how you want.  Or don't bother to roll at all and just go ahead and react accordingly.  Just wanted to make it clear that if a player directs a formal attempt at something toward another player, you guys are free to resolve the attempt how you deem best.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Unless you're fighting, in which case, I'll get involved.  

There's always an exception, isn't there?


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> ALL--Shayuri is looking for a connection to some of the others in the party.  Anyone interested in working something out with Talashia the sorceress?  It's not too late to forge a bond.  As I suggested to Shayuri, perhaps you traveled together to Sandpoint but separated for the day during the festivities.  Ya'll have a couple of days to work this out before we settle into roles.




I can think of a couple of ways that Talashia might have at least a nominal connection to Tac:

1) Given the number of people that were likely working on the cathedral, it's possible the guild and town arranged for 'fostering,' so that local families supplied housing to guildmembers. Maybe Tac had a room with Talashia's family? So they've been talking her up / anticipating her return? Tac's certainly agreeable enough that he'd be more than willing to find another room while she's back (his cousin's in town, after all, so maybe they're sharing accomodations).

2) And / or: is Tal's mission to do with the standing stones at the cathedral? If so, perhaps the engineers made their junior member (Tac) Talashia's 'liaison' to help guide her / make sure she stayed out of trouble as the work was completed?



Ambrus said:


> It's my impression that everyone else is new to Sandpoint, except for Tac whose been living here at least as long as my PC. Having been curious about the temple being constructed, we could say that Tac is familiar with the collie who's been lurking around the construction site on and off for the past few years. I'll even let Jkason pick a name that the guildsmen know him by if interested.




Heh. Sounds good to me. Well, given his construction bent, maybe 'Sandstone'? If we want to stick with one name to avoid confusion, though, I'm fine if everyone just knows you as 'Kell,' too.

jason


----------



## Ambrus

I didn't mean to include my Diplomacy score as a serious challenge to Talashia, merely as a reminder of how mathematically adorable my collie is. Save vs puppy dog eyes Shayuri! 

CB, I think you inadvertently changed Ameiko's name to Amelie halfway through your last post.



jkason said:


> Well, given his construction bent, maybe 'Sandstone'? If we want to stick with one name to avoid confusion, though, I'm fine if everyone just knows you as 'Kell,' too.



Sandstone is fine by me. I rather like the idea that people in town have many different names for my PC.

Sandstone, or Sandy for short, is probably known for making himself useful when hanging around the construction site; fetching misplaced tools, carrying buckets of water to thirsty laborers or barking thunderously to warn of something dangerous he's spotted such as a piece of scaffolding about to collapse.


----------



## Shayuri

Ambrus, no worries. I took that as just a guide for RP, not an attempt to mind control my character. 

Jkason, that scenario is possible! It might be best if we use an either/or though...either Tac stayed with Tal's parents who were excited about her homecoming, or he's her liason to make sure she doesn't blow up the Cathedral with magic while checking on the stones.  Both at once stretches plausibility a little.

CB, do you have anything to add regarding Tal's parents or her 'mission' in Sandpoint? Or are we free to determine those things ourselves?


----------



## jkason

Shayuri said:


> Jkason, that scenario is possible! It might be best if we use an either/or though...either Tac stayed with Tal's parents who were excited about her homecoming, or he's her liason to make sure she doesn't blow up the Cathedral with magic while checking on the stones.  Both at once stretches plausibility a little.




True enough. I'm good with either one, though I'd probably vote for the liaison link, as it's more of an official tie between the two, and thus might prove stronger motivation for them to adventure in tandem. That has the additional benefit of keeping Tac from meddling with your NPC family ties so I don't wind up mischaracterizing Tal's parents by accident. 

jason


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> CB, do you have anything to add regarding Tal's parents or her 'mission' in Sandpoint? Or are we free to determine those things ourselves?



Nope, you're free to determine these details yourselves.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

First blood in the IC goes to the bad guys.  Combat's been posted, go see.  

Per my earlier promise, a check of the character repository shows that everyone has a recently updated character sheet in the repository and those of you who needed to add or change details have (mostly) done so.  Everyone has earned themselves a spot in the combat.    Thanks.  Here's to staying alive!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:
			
		

> Tac will draw his rapier as part of movement and start circling to try to get in a flanking position. Surprise round means he only has the move action, I believe. Activating Dodge, so his AC bumps +1.
> 
> Do you want to perform all rolls, or do you want us to do combat rolls with an online roller like Invisible Castle? No worries either way.



I'll be doing the rolling for the game.

ALL -- a (admittedly very rough) map is up in the IC.  Used Excel...not happy with the results.  I used to use Paint to produce okay-ish combat maps.  Will look around to see if I can find a better utility for free.  Combat maps were one of the reasons in past games that I got irritated with PbP DMing.  Such a blustering pain to produce.  Comments/suggestions welcome.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

ALL -- I'd rather the IC thread contained only in-character posts.  Short OOC comments should only appear in our IC thread when you need to briefly remind me of something akin to:

Bastard sword +14 2d20+78 dmg

If you have something longer that you need to post, put it in this thread, please.  Ditto rules discussion...that stuff goes here, not in the IC.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

From the IC:


> So the only question is whether a charge attack counts as a "regular" move or not. If so, then a character with at least a +1 BAB could draw a weapon, move up to twice their base speed and execute a single melee attack against the goblin; all as a part of a single standard action. That's assuming he or she has a clear approach to the goblin though.



On a surprise round, you can draw a weapon, charge up to your movement--but not double move, which the PF surprise and charge rules state you can't do on a surprise round--and attack.  The usual +2 to attack, -2 to AC that are part of a charge would apply.  

And, yes, that's assuming you have a clear approach to the goblin.  Buffet tables and bench tables between PCs and a goblin, along with surprised PCs will hinder a charge.  Stunned citizenry and unsurprised PCs won't hinder a charge.  

I've stated that everyone is within 30 feet of the wagon.  If your PC has a 20 foot movement, you may wish to consider placement before you elect to take a charge.  Other than the buildings, market stalls, bench seating, buffet tables, wagon, and podium, I haven't stated where PCs are standing at the start of battle.  For this _initial_ combat round, while I get a feel for how people intend to play, I've purposely left PC placement unmarked on the first-round combat map.  Ya'll can use the (very rough) Excel spreadsheet to approximate an alphanumeric square where you think you'd like to start the round and where you think you'd like to end up at the end of the round.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Last post for the day from me, probably.

Just to clarify, go ahead and post in the IC with *both* your suprise round (if your PC got one) and regular round action.  I'll wait for everyone to post action/s before I sort out the combat round and make my reply.  If you want to delay because you just don't know what the combat landscape will look like when your turn arrives, let me know.  If the chips fall right or someone's action radically changes the combat, sometimes I post a mid-round description, but in the past, it's been rare that I do so.


----------



## Ambrus

*Moved from the IC thread.*



CanadienneBacon said:


> If you want to delay because you just don't know what the combat landscape will look like when your turn arrives, let me know.



Seems prudent to wait and see since, having failed his perception check, my PC isn't yet aware of what the commotion is about. Assuming he eventually sees something it also seems entirely possible that there will be too big a press of bodies in the way for him to do anything significant on the first full round of combat either.[sblock=Relevant rules]Just a quick copy paste of the relevant parts of the Pathfinder rules concerning the surprise round and charging, assuming that's what some players might be considering.



			
				Pathfinder Beta said:
			
		

> Combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents
> each take a standard action during the surprise
> round. You can also take free actions during the surprise
> round.





			
				Pathfinder Beta said:
			
		

> [A charge] may be taken as a standard action if you are limited to taking
> only a single action in a round.





			
				Pathfinder Beta said:
			
		

> *CHARGE*
> Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to
> move up to twice your speed and attack during the action.
> Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you
> can move.
> _Movement During a Charge:_ You must move before
> your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2
> squares) and may move up to double your speed directly
> toward the designated opponent.
> You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and
> nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult
> terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space
> from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is
> occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge. If any
> line from your starting space to the ending space passes
> through a square that blocks movement, slows movement,
> or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.
> Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.
> If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the
> start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.
> You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
> If you are able to take only a standard action or a move
> action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only
> allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double
> your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted
> to taking only a standard action or move action
> on your turn.
> _Attacking on a Charge:_ After moving, you may make a
> single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll
> and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your
> next turn.
> A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver
> attack rolls made to bull rush an opponent (see
> Bull Rush).
> Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a
> high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple
> weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge."



All this assumes that a character has a weapon in hand with which to attack however. Normally drawing a weapon is a move action, but:







			
				Pathfinder Beta said:
			
		

> If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can
> combine one of these actions with a regular move.



[/sblock]


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> Last post for the day from me, probably.
> 
> Just to clarify, go ahead and post in the IC with *both* your suprise round (if your PC got one) and regular round action.  I'll wait for everyone to post action/s before I sort out the combat round and make my reply.  If you want to delay because you just don't know what the combat landscape will look like when your turn arrives, let me know.  If the chips fall right or someone's action radically changes the combat, sometimes I post a mid-round description, but in the past, it's been rare that I do so.




Added a post with round 1, as well. As for position, I'm assuming the goblin is on the northern part of the wagon, so Tac would be angling for around J12 from what I'm seeing? Trying to get in flank to make use of a Sneak Attack.


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> Last post for the day from me, probably.
> 
> Just to clarify, go ahead and post in the IC with *both* your suprise round (if your PC got one) and regular round action.  I'll wait for everyone to post action/s before I sort out the combat round and make my reply.  If you want to delay because you just don't know what the combat landscape will look like when your turn arrives, let me know.  If the chips fall right or someone's action radically changes the combat, sometimes I post a mid-round description, but in the past, it's been rare that I do so.




I've got Elyra looking around in the surprise round, so her action on the regular round is going to be contingent on what she sees.    

CB, can you tell me what Elyra sees in the surprise round before I give the regular phase response?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Asked and answered.  I just tossed up the surprise round results and started the first full round.  Everyone should now have either more knowledge to work off of, or should by now be aware of the goblin threat in the square.  Also added the goblins in on the Init order.  

Shayuri posted that he's busy with things this week, so if need be I'll post for him.  Shayuri is a _*him*_, right?  One can never be sure about screen names.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I will be out of town June 11 - 20.  May have limited connectivity (but probably won't have all of my books) for half the time.  The 14th through the 18th, however, I will be well and fully away from posting--Grannie-sponsored trip to Disneyworld for my four daughters, on which I shall serve as parent accompaniment.

I plan to bring some .pdfs and .docs along on the trip on my USB drive, which should enable me to post on some of the days I'm gone.


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> I will be out of town June 11 - 20.  May have limited connectivity (but probably won't have all of my books) for half the time.  The 14th through the 18th, however, I will be well and fully away from posting--Grannie-sponsored trip to Disneyworld for my four daughters, on which I shall serve as parent accompaniment.





Enjoy yourself!  Actually I should probably warn you that I will be on limited connectivity June 21-28.  I should still be able to manage a post a day, but I thought I'd let you know.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm guessing that some or all of the goblins will take the opportunity to attack my dog PC on their turn. Assuming they close to melee range, he'll execute a full attack with his natural attack routine on his subsequent turn.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> Asked and answered.  I just tossed up the surprise round results and started the first full round.  Everyone should now have either more knowledge to work off of, or should by now be aware of the goblin threat in the square.  Also added the goblins in on the Init order.
> 
> Shayuri posted that he's busy with things this week, so if need be I'll post for him.  Shayuri is a _*him*_, right?  One can never be sure about screen names.



Have a good time!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Combat is concluded, for the moment.  You guys can post at will in the IC.  On the days I'm free during my vacation this week and next, I'll provide in-context updates to the IC.


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=CanadienneBacon]Did you roll Taran's Disguise check opposed by Elyra's Perception to determine whether she saw through his disguise? There's no mention of Taran's disguise check result in the last die rolls sblock. [/sblock]


----------



## mfloyd3

[sblock=Ambrus&CB] You're obviously enjoying "collie mode," and Lord knows it's fun to watch.  Elyra is not going to drop this, but there may be a way to maintain it.  

If no one believes Elyra, she'll spend the rest of the adventure claiming the dog is not a dog, and no one else will take her seriously.  After he gets used to it, Taran can start taunting her about it, perhaps even speaking to her when the others aren't around.  Maybe he'll be glad to have someone to talk to, or maybe he'll just enjoy messing with her.

Thoughts?
[/sblock]


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=mfloyd & CanadienneBacon]I'm not quite sure what to say. Much of my character's self-identity is tied up with being a dog; it's really the only persona he's ever had and so is understandably relunctant to abandon it. I didn't really put a whole lot of thought into how or if he'll admit to the other PCs what he is. I figured I'd just wait and see what developed.

Even if Elyra doesn't begin to second guess what she's seen, she may at least arrive at the conclusion that the pseudo-dog is unintelligent or at least unable to converse. That's up to you. She might want to keep her suspicions to herself, at least for awhile, to avoid sounding crazy to the townsfolk and PCs who don't know her very well yet.

Taran certainly won't taunt Elyra with the truth. His motivation for passing as a dog isn't really based in deriving amusement through deception. Your idea of his wanting to have someone to talk to has some merit, but it'd naturally depend on his feeling safe with the person he approaches. I just don't know if that's Elyra yet. [/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

At this point, I don't think we're kidding anyone anymore with the sblocks.  If someone has something that absolutely must remain private, please e-mail me or send a PM (if you're ENWorld-enabled to do so).

Didn't I include the Disguise check?  If not, I'm sorry.  I keep a running tally on a paper notebook at my desk.  Writing everything down as I roll it helps me stay organized.  When I wrote the post, I thought I'd included everything that I rolled, but I guess I left out the other half of the check.  Taran got a roll of 12.  With a +10 to Disguise, his total is 22.  

Elyra got a roll of 15.  With a +8 to Perception, her total is 23.  Now that I think of it, I believe I may have used Elyra's +10 to Perception for a total of 25, but that's versus goblinoids, not versus collies.  Even with the +8 to Perception, Elyra's 23 still beats Taran's 22.  

I'll check my last IC post and amend it to include whatever I seem to have missed.  I shall leave it to the two of you to work it out in the IC how you deem best.  There's a lot of dust in the air in the festival square.  Taran could use that to try to discount Elyra's Perception check.  That, and most normal folk don't have the whopping Perception ability that Elyra has--most folk would think she's nuts just by her trying to say she's seen something from a distance, even without the dust in the air.


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=Security blanket]Sblocks make me feel safe! I don't care if they offer protection no better than tissue paper. [/sblock]


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon has asked me to pass along some news on her behalf. As you're surely aware she's currently on vacation with her family. Unfortunately, while traveling yesterday, she seems to have caught a bad bit of food poisoning from a fast food restaurant and has been quite ill as a consequence. She's therefore not up to posting game updates for the time being.

Hope you feel better soon CB!


----------



## Shayuri

Gah! I hope she's okay.

Rest up, CB! Get better!


----------



## jkason

Add my well-wishes for a fast recovery. Hope you feel better very soon and can enjoy the rest of your vacation!

jason


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

How does food poisoning always seem to know when someone is on vacation? It's like a conspiracy! 

Get better, CB.


----------



## mfloyd3

Somebody check the kitchen for goblins!

Get well soon, CB.


----------



## Walking Dad

Get well soon, CB. We wait for you


----------



## Shayuri

Dang, it's been a week. I'm officially worried.

Any news, Ambrus?


----------



## Ambrus

No, but I wouldn't worry. Assuming she's recovered from from her illness and that everything is progressing as planned with her vacation then she's been enjoying Disney World with her four daughters from Sunday until today. So heading into the weekend, if we're lucky, we might hear from her sometime tomorrow or Saturday if she has the time and the inclination to check in online. Failing that, she's expecting to be back home by Sunday and will probably post here to let us know how she's doing by then or Monday at the latest.


----------



## Walking Dad

Good to know. I hope she has a good time!


----------



## Ambrus

Bear in mind that I'm merely conjecturing based on what CB posted here earlier. I haven't actually heard from her since she fell ill.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Howdy...no need to worry, I'm here.  I caught something last Thursday on the drive down south and spent last Friday/Saturday laid up in bed.  _Horrible_ experience...the sickest I have been since living in Korea eight years ago.  Worse, whatever it was ripped through my entire family, all the way from the 2-year-old up to Grannie.  I will never again eat at a certain fast food chain, no matter how ubiquitous it be.  

Despite feeling slightly woozy on Sunday, the kids and I were (mostly) recovered by Monday and enjoyed Disney World.  I still have to be careful what I eat--doing yogurt and fresh fruits/veggies for the moment--but am otherwise OK.  

I did the nine-hour drive home today and will be posting in the IC tomorrow (Sunday).  In the interest of letting my littlest rest, I've decided to skip church in the morning, so I'll be around to post.  And rest.  Disney is exhausting!


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

Thanks for the update, CB. Glad you're feeling better.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Summary post is up, but you might have a care to read through it because I've interjected additional details--particularly when a roll was called for or a PC stated they did something specific.  You guys should continue to post at will.  For the moment.  Heh.

Thanks, all, for your patience with me this past (admittedly--for all us but in different ways--very long) week.  I have no more planned extended vacations for the summer.  Just a weekend here or there out of town, but nothing planned and nothing for very long.


----------



## mfloyd3

Glad you're feeling better, and we're back up and running.  Thanks for your continuing hard work on the game.  Just a reminder, I'm on vacation with my family this week.  I'm anticipating one post a day, but please be patient in the event of food poisoning, or perhaps an Indian attack (we're at a dude ranch).

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## jkason

Welcome back, CB! Rocky start excepted, glad the vacation went well.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mark, if need be I can post for Elyra.  I understand wanting to continue to post during vacation (some of us just really enjoy our gaming), but I also understand the desire for time away from an electronic tether.

ALL--I'll be at work this morning and then this afternoon I have an interview for a job that I would very much like.  I'll will therefore be posting in the evening hours tonight.


----------



## Ambrus

I hope the interview went well. *fingers crossed*


----------



## CanadienneBacon

My interview did go well, thanks.  It's for a position in the IT department of a major downtown corporation.  I'd be replacing someone who is getting a promotion--I hope to find out within the next two to four weeks whether I got the job.

On another idea totally outside of the game, I weeded my garden today and harvested two bags full of baby mesclun lettuces and a very large and very lovely kale plant, which I intend to prepare for supper.  There was also one ripe grape tomato on the vine, which I picked and promptly ate--delicious.  Nothing like homegrown tomatoes off the vine.  They taste like sunshine.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've just put up a new combat in the IC.  There will be one surprise round in which Elyra, Tac, and Kell get a turn.  Regular iniative will commence after the surprise round--I've got everyone's regular init scores rolled and posted.  A map is attached to the post.


----------



## jkason

It's one action for surprise rounds, right? Tac will use his drawing his bow. If he has a clean shot in the first round, he'll take it.


----------



## Ambrus

I simply posted actions for both the surprise and initial rounds. Hope that's okay.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Players who get to act in the surprise round may take one standard action and free actions.  

And, yes, it's totally okay to post both your surprise round action and your action for the regular initiative round in the first post.  If something happens from one round to the next that dramatically alters the playing field, I will pause between rounds give you an opportunity to alter your stated action.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> There will be one surprise round in which Elyra, Tac, and Kell get a turn.  Regular iniative will commence after the surprise round--I've got everyone's regular init scores rolled and posted.



Uhm. Why do Elyra, Tac and Kell's initiative scores change in the round following the surprise round?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It's my way of distinguishing between rounds and separating what is "surprise" from what is "regular" initiative.  Once we settle into regular initiative rounds, we'll keep the posted initiative sequence.  At least, that was my take on the beta rules passage on surprise rounds in the combat section when I re-read it again this morning.  I can see a case for having surprise round initiative and regular round initiative separate, but I can also see a case for using the same initiative throughout.

If someone can show me in the beta rules where it states that we are supposed to keep the same init throughout, *OR* if all of you prefer to keep the same init throughout, I have no problem doing so.  Less rolling for me.    Let me know.


----------



## Ambrus

Looking through the section on surprise rounds, I'm afraid I don't see anything that suggests that one would reroll initiative following the surprise round.



			
				Pathfinder RPG Beta said:
			
		

> Any combatants
> aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so
> they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest),
> combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents
> each take a standard action during the surprise
> round.





			
				Pathfinder RPG Beta said:
			
		

> At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative
> check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each
> character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll.
> Characters act in order, counting down from highest result
> to lowest. *In every round that follows, the characters
> act in the same order.*




Emphasis mine. So as soon a character is aware of enemy combatants she rolls for initiative, whether that be in the surprise round or later, and then acts on that same initiative throughout the combat.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks.  That's the same passage I read but came away from it with a different impression.

I'm totally open to group input on this.  What do the rest of you prefer?


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> Thanks.  That's the same passage I read but came away from it with a different impression.
> 
> I'm totally open to group input on this.  What do the rest of you prefer?



Frankly, I'm fine with either.


----------



## Ambrus

Just to clarify, Kell starts barking during his turn during the first full round of combat; ideally once its too late for the goblin to react to his charge attack.


----------



## Walking Dad

Merlin's Shadow said:


> Frankly, I'm fine with either.



Same here.


----------



## jkason

I have a slight preference for keeping the same init, just because it's less rolling  / math to worry about. It doesn't really bother me, though, if we have separate surprise and regular inits. I'm good either way. 

jason


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Just to clarify, Kell starts barking during his turn during the first full round of combat; ideally once its too late for the goblin to react to his charge attack.



Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Round 1 of combat is posted, along with a map indicating player position.  The bonfire will be more than a double move behind the southern row of houses for everyone other than Talashia.  Assuming Talashia has a 30 foot movement, she could get to the bonfire in one round by double moving.  The child beside Talashia might or might not be able to make it, depending.

*ALL--*I think a couple of you may have missed reading the Status sblock I'm posting for combat rounds, because it didn't seem clear to everyone that all of you did, in fact, spot the orange merchant goblin at the end of the surprise round.  I stated so in the surprise round sblock, which some of you may have missed.  Or my wording wasn't clear, which is certainly always a risk.  Or possibly, you might not have thought the sblock was for you to read if you didn't receive an action in the surprise round.  In any event, make sure you read sblocked Status reports at the bottom of combat posts; oftentimes I'll include useful technical tidbits in there that may prove useful to you for subsequent rounds, even if you don't get a surprise round action.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Maps continue to not do what I want them to do.  I downloaded paint.net and overall there are some features I like but it doesn't seem to do what I need to do.  I'm looking for the ability to overlay a grid without having to do it by hand, and I'm looking to be able to either erase or move text markers.  If you know of free product that can do these things, please let me know.  Combat maps need to get better, for your sake.

Also, a lot of times when I've tried to hunt for images from Burnt Offerings using Google or searching at Paizo, I can't seem to locate the hosted image I want.  While I could scan the module at home and attach thumbnail .jpgs at the bottom of posts, this isn't as glamorously beautiful as inserting an image using the imager or imagel html tags that ENWorld enables.  The picture of the Sandpoint map, Ameiko Kaijitsu, and the russian Lord's Prayer that I used for Grokk's healing spell are all hosted images that I'm linking to.  Do any of you know where I can find a bank of Burnt Offerings hosted images?  Or do any of you maintain a Website and, if you do, would you be willing to host scans of images that I send to you for the specific purpose of illustrating our game?  Artwork from the module will really bring the game alive, so I'd like to have more resources at my disposal to be able to liven things up.  Let me know if you have any ideas.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> I'm looking for the ability to overlay a grid without having to do it by hand, and I'm looking to be able to either erase or move text markers.  If you know of free product that can do these things, please let me know.



I'm not certain how you might go about doing it yourself. I'm a graphic designer by trade and have the necessary applications to do that kind of editing myself; I might be able to give you a hand if you give me what you have and tell me what you need done with it.



CanadienneBacon said:


> Do any of you know where I can find a bank of Burnt Offerings hosted images?



Looking around a bit, this site seems to have quite a few Sandpoint related images in it.



CanadienneBacon said:


> Or do any of you maintain a Website and, if you do, would you be willing to host scans of images that I send to you for the specific purpose of illustrating our game?



Why not simply upload your images to a free image hosting website like imageshack and then link to them? That's what I do myself.

So how long will it take Kell to reach the bonfire if he double moves or runs as much as is possible?

Edit: Oh, and Kell is a rough collie, not a border collie BTW.


----------



## jkason

GIMP is freeware image manipulation. One of the filters (Render->Pattern) has a gridding option, and there's a text tool that would let you put text markers wherever you want (and if you save a copy with the layers, you'd be able to edit the text each time and export a .jpg for upload).

Of course, that assumes you have a base image to lay the grid on top of. If you want to be able to 'draw' things, I'm not sure if GIMP has the proper tools for that, though I haven't tried.

jason


----------



## Ambrus

CB, I've been meaning to ask – what's the significance of the Russian message you included in post #57 of the IC thread?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Looking around a bit, this site seems to have quite a few Sandpoint related images in it.



I'm seeing images for Ameiko, the mayor, the sheriff, and two or three other Sandpoint NPCs.  It's a good site (I think I've come across it before) but I'm wanting some of the other artwork from Burnt Offerings...the picture of the burning cathedral with the goblins and the picture of the parchment containing the goblin song, for example.  I'll continue to look.  I've thought of imageshack in the past but before I made (yet another) extraneous Website that clutters the net, I thought to ask here first to see if someone already had a site and wouldn't mind sharing space.  I'll probably break down and use imageshack--if I nab my own space, I'll be able to scan, upload, and link when I need to without waiting on a third party to upload pics.



> Kell is a rough collie, not a border collie BTW.



 Thanks.  Sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> GIMP is freeware image manipulation. One of the filters (Render->Pattern) has a gridding option, and there's a text tool that would let you put text markers wherever you want (and if you save a copy with the layers, you'd be able to edit the text each time and export a .jpg for upload).
> 
> Of course, that assumes you have a base image to lay the grid on top of. If you want to be able to 'draw' things, I'm not sure if GIMP has the proper tools for that, though I haven't tried.



I've had GIMP in the past and found the steep learning curve to be not to my liking.  While I could sit down and spend time familiarizing myself, I've always been too busy with other stuff to make time to learn the ins and outs of GIMP.  Has GIMP gotten any better in the last 18 months?  If so, I'll give it another look.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> CB, I've been meaning to ask – what's the significance of the Russian message you included in post #57 of the IC thread?



Factually, that is the Russian Lord's Prayer.  Fictionally, that is Grokk's muttered incantation to Torag for healing for the woman lying unconscious under the wagon.  Apparently, in my warped mind, Dwarvish-diety worshipping half-orcs speak something gutteral akin to Russian.    It's merely for show, in any case.  Maybe next time I'll use something arabic.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll get a map up of the bonfire area tonight.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

A test shows that the new imageshack account I just created in the last hour will allow me to post satisfactory illustrations for the IC.  I amended my last combat post for Round 1 to include a graphic of The Goblin Song.  No one in the party speaks Goblin, but the image in the module was so coolly infamous that I decided to include it for your meta-gaming enjoyment.

Now...on to the mapping dilemna.  Might as well try to knock out that problem tonight, too.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[imagel]http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7241/combat2cj.jpg[/imagel]This is the map I will be posting for the next round of combat--assuming everyone heads south.  You should assume that the cottages on the northern edge of this map are what appears as the southern edge of the Festival Square where the first combat took place.  

Hope this helps you plot your movement.  If, in viewing this new map, your PC can make it to the bonfire in one round, more power to you.


----------



## Ambrus

By my count, by taking run actions on rounds 2 and 3, Sandstone will be able to get into a position to charge one of the goblins at the bonfire on his turn during round 4 at the earliest. So, till then...


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> I've had GIMP in the past and found the steep learning curve to be not to my liking.  While I could sit down and spend time familiarizing myself, I've always been too busy with other stuff to make time to learn the ins and outs of GIMP.  Has GIMP gotten any better in the last 18 months?  If so, I'll give it another look.




I only downloaded it in the last couple of months, so I couldn't tell you what may or may not have changed about it. I was used to doing some very simple stuff in photoshop and image-ready, and the functions in GIMP were fairly similar, so it didn't take me long to figure those things out, at least. 

If you found it user unfriendly before, though, I suspect it would be similarly frustrating now, as it's only on version 2.0, so I can't imagine it's had any kind of major UI overhaul.

jason


----------



## Ambrus

[imagel]http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4694/cmbu.jpg[/imagel]Here's a composite image of the two battle maps. Hopefully it'll help to determine how soon PCs can reach the bonfire.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Very handy.  Painful to look at, but very handy.  Thanks!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I am home alone this weekend and plan to take full advantage of the extra time allotted to me by going to the Saturday farmer's market and then to the art museum this morning.  I checked in over at the IC and saw that everyone has posted for Round 2, so I'll do a combat post for you upon returning home this afternoon.  

Anyone seen the movie _Away We Go_?  It came out yesterday.  I went to a matinee (haven't done that in years) of it and liked it.  If you like Jim from the American T.V. off-beat comedy _The Office_, he's in the movie with Maya Rudolph from _Saturday Night Live_.  It was a very funny, touching sort of indie flick.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The picture of the flaming church and the fire-brand-wielding goblins in the IC is from the module and is for "illustrative" purposes only.  No, the church is not really on fire in our game.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Guys, I fully intended to post today but it's 10 pm, I'm knackered, and I'm going to bed now so that I can be ready tomorrow for a second interview with Humana.   My interview should last a couple of hours, same as the first interview.  I'll show up to post in the IC mid-afternoon on Tuesday (tomorrow).  

G'night (and I guess no one's heard of or seen _Away We Go_?).


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> G'night (and I guess no one's heard of or seen _Away We Go_?).




Sorry, don't know the movie.  But thanks for the tip, I'll look for it when it hits DVD.

Good luck at your interview!


----------



## Ambrus

Yes, much luck with the interview. Make us proud!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, did you mean to have Taran stop running short of his full movement this round?  G1 is short of how far Taran can go--he could make it to H8 or thereabouts, depending on how you count squares.  Let me know.  I'll post that Taran stops in G1 (I'd like to move the rounds forward) but if after reading this you decide to have him venture further, I'll amend my post in the IC.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Actually, to my eye it looks like Tac and Elyra can also move a bit farther than what you guys stipulated in the IC.  Since there is no disadvantage to moving farther into the combat zone and good potential for doing so, that's what I had your characters do. 

If you had/have a reason why your character wouldn't have gone to the limit of his or her reach on movement for the round, let me know and I'll be happy to amend my last IC post.

Just trying to give you guys a leg up.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Sorry, don't know the movie.  But thanks for the tip, I'll look for it when it hits DVD.



Yes, definitely a movie to rent/borrow on DVD...I only happened to catch it in the actual theater because I was home alone over the weekend and thus had a bit of a splurge.  If you have a woman in your life, it's a movie that would make a good date night.  Or, alternately, if you've simply got a few miles under your own belt and/or already have children, then likewise it's a good movie to share with someone.

On a lighter note, I believe this may actually be the first time I have ever managed to get a daze spell to work on a hapless PC.  It's not a spell that normally beats even a low-level Will save (let alone the Will save of a cleric, which I count as a real coup!).   

Thank you, Merlin's Shadow!


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> If you had/have a reason why your character wouldn't have gone to the limit of his or her reach on movement for the round, let me know and I'll be happy to amend my last IC post.
> 
> Just trying to give you guys a leg up.




Works for me. I may have mis-counted due to trying to figure diagonal movement, which always throws me off a bit. Thanks! 

jason


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Ambrus, did you mean to have Taran stop running short of his full movement this round?  G1 is short of how far Taran can go--he could make it to H8 or thereabouts, depending on how you count squares.



Keep in mind that one can only move in a straight line while running. So, unable to round the corner while running, Taran must stop at G1 or continue moving southwesterly; effectively moving further away from the bonfire.

Not fun, but them's the breaks. Charging the goblins is an ongoing work in progress.


----------



## Shayuri

CB, how do you want to handle our wayward sorceror? We could just work out how long it'll take her to get the girl to her house, and then run (not double move) back, and I'll come in at that time?


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> Thank you, Merlin's Shadow!




I live to serve.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> CB, how do you want to handle our wayward sorceror? We could just work out how long it'll take her to get the girl to her house, and then run (not double move) back, and I'll come in at that time?



My plan was to give you XP for taking care of the girl then add you back in immediately following the current combat.  There's no sense in having you miss more than necessary; while you could be gone the rest of the day dealing with the girl, I don't care to have you be separated from the group for very long on this particular task.


----------



## Shayuri

*nods*

Sounds good then. Thanks!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Anyone else experiencing difficulty with imageshack today?  I note that a couple of linked images that I'm storing on imageshack showed up just fine in the IC yesterday but today showing as the dreaded red-x boxes.  A check of my account shows that I can't access any of my previously uploaded images (though, oddly, two of them must still be working just fine because I can still view them a linked images in the IC).

Apologies, but I therefore don't have a Round 4 combat map to post other than the thumbnail I'm working on editing in.


----------



## Walking Dad

You know, that you can link to your thumbnail?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Nope, I didn't know a person can link to a thumbnail image.  Interesting, thanks for sharing.  The re-sized image leaves a little to be desired, though.  Quick question--are you guys experiencing difficulty seeing which gridsquare you're in on the MS Paint maps I've been posting?

In WalkingDad's thumbnail link posted just above, for example, I can't see gridlines separating spaces K7, K8, and K9.  On the original, I see them just fine and dandy.  

Just checking.


----------



## Ambrus

It's a little hard to judge movement since the grid squares aren't all equal in size or shape but no, I don't have trouble seeing the grid lines the way you're describing on any of the posted maps.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

How far off the mark do the grid squares that you're viewing appear to be from standard in terms of size and shape?  I did the grid squares by hand, so they are not _*exact*_, but in my viewing utility the squares look _*almost*_ exact in terms of "squareness."  

If others aren't benefitting from a similar viewing experience, I'd like to know.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

I can see the gridlines just fine in WD's image. And, while some of the images haven't had perfect squares, they have still been effective in conveying the lay of the land.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

I changed my actions for the last round. My edited post is here.


----------



## mfloyd3

Changed my actions as well.  Also, Elyra's setting up a flank for Tac, if that changes the outcome.

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## CanadienneBacon

After three days at the Madison Regatta, I'm wiped.  I work Monday morning and will next be posting in the IC Monday afternoon, maybe 2 pm-ish.  Current plans are to resolve actions for Elyra and Grokk, then call for Round 6 (if the last goblin is still standing), then re-introduce Talashia.

My mum will be visiting us Wednesday and Thursday this week, so while I do not plan to neglect posting those two days, it may be sporadic.


----------



## Walking Dad

You can click on the bar of the re sized image to view it full size. O did you reduced the image as you put it into the thumbnail?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I made a mistake in Round 5 and forgot to grant Sivan an attack with his reach weapon at the start of the round.  I have amended my error (Sivan attacked but missed).  I looked for a re-declaration post from Merlin's Shadow for Grokk but didn't see one, so rather than hold up combat another day, I simply used Elyra's stated action that she would set up a flank with Tac on Goblin2.  Elyra missed with her longsword.  Goblin2, however, was on fire and decided to flee north, prompting an AoO from Sivan, Elyra, and Tac.  Sivan struck and hit, ending the combat.  

We're therefore off initiative and done with combat.  The general feel in the city right now is one of panic and fear.  Most lay citizens will have gone home and locked their door.  The Sheriff has called upon his volunteer brigade, who have standing instructions to report to the Sheriff's office at city hall in the event of an emergency.  

What you guys decide to do for the moment is up to you.  I'll be keeping up by reading along in the IC and posting as necessary.  Shayuri, you should please re-include Talashia when feasible with the party.  If, by the time you are able to get on ENWorld to post, the party has moved away from the public green or the Festival Square, a simple post from you stating that Talashia spots them and re-joins is probably all that is sufficient.  We'll slightly metagame things to get you rolling again--ie: wherever the group is when you show up to post is where Talashia will spot and re-join them.

Please keep in mind that not everyone in the past two combats knows one another--some of you have yet to formally introduce yourself to the others.  Happily, there is nothing quite like group combat to make strangers fast friends.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Walking Dad said:


> You can click on the bar of the re sized image to view it full size. O did you reduced the image as you put it into the thumbnail?



Yes, once I click to view the full image everything shows up neatly, just as it should (grid lines included).  The smaller re-sized image doesn't show everything, however.  ENWorld seems to want to re-size things, depending on the size of the file.

Regarding the original thumbnail that I posted in the combat, I didn't tell ENWorld to resize anything--I simply attached the .jpg to my post.  Doing so results in the thumbnail.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

CanadienneBacon said:


> I made a mistake in Round 5 and forgot to grant Sivan an attack with his reach weapon at the start of the round.  I have amended my error (Sivan attacked but missed).



Just realized this makes it sound like I didn't give Sivan his attack but rather "fixed" my error by trying to explain things away.  Not so--Sivan got his roll, he just rolled a 2.    You all won't have known this, but you seem to have suffered a comedy of errors in the attacking department of late; I rolled a lot of 1s and 2s for you.


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> You all won't have known this, but you seem to have suffered a comedy of errors in the attacking department of late; I rolled a lot of 1s and 2s for you.




My compliments on reproducing the tabletop experience so accurately!  If I didn't know better, I'd think you were using my dice.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> I looked for a re-declaration post from Merlin's Shadow for Grokk but didn't see one...




I actually mentioned it just up thread, but it's not a big deal.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Crikey, you _edited_.  Sorry I missed the boat on that.  I'll be more careful in the future to check for both edits and second posts.


----------



## Merlin's Shadow

CanadienneBacon said:


> Crikey, you _edited_.  Sorry I missed the boat on that.  I'll be more careful in the future to check for both edits and second posts.



Like I said, it's not a big deal. Besides, what good D&D session doesn't have at least one misunderstanding?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I guess I needed a few days away from the boards, and even from e-mail.  Thanks for your patience.  I've posted in the IC to renew things.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[imager]http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4693/dogslicer.jpg[/imager]Thought you guys might like to see a tidbit or two of some of the more interesting illustrated sidenotes in Paizo's Burnt Offerings module.  By my best estimate based on what I'm reading in the IC, at least two of you have already read the module or own it, but for those of you who haven't I thought I'd share some of the module's amusements.















"Stupid little freaks."


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> "Stupid little freaks."




Hey, that's defamation of character!  Non-player character, but character nonetheless!

I'm calling an NPC rights activist.  Nameless abominations are people too!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Make sure you alert the leftist presbyterian seminary at which my husband is a grad student; they'll want in on the action, too.  Liberals unite!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Combat posted in the IC!


----------



## Walking Dad

Already posted


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Guys, it took me 23 minutes to get this page to load (and I counted myself lucky that I could get on EN World at all today).  Since it isn't currently feasible to post multiple updates, edits, or post pics/maps to combat posts, I am placing this game on hiatus until such a time as EN World brings its traffic count back down from the stratosphere.

I do not intend to abandon this game; rather, I'll be checking on EN World's accessibility every other day.  When the site seems to me able to maintain consistent and quick access, I will re-open play.  Please hang tight in the interim.  If one of you feels that the site is back up to speed, please drop a line to me at my personal e-mail address.  wlburford@hotmail.com.

--Wendy


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Posting time is down a good bit this morning.  I have a full day of stuff to take care of today, but I'm going to get on EN World at some point today (Saturday) in order to post in the IC.  Could be late morning, if not that then late evening.  Hang tight.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

9 minutes to pull up correct page in our IC in Playing the Game.  25 minutes composing a post.  8 minutes for the post to load in the game thread.  43 minutes to get past multiple time-outs to be able to post here in the OOC.  

Total spent on two posts today = 1 hour and 25 minutes.  I would not call EN World exactly speedy today, but I am grateful to be able to access our game at all.  I was going to remove the "Hiatus" tag from our thread title, but after this evening's experience, I think I'll leave it up until server response time is improved.  

Bear with things, please.  I'll continue to monitor access to the site and will post as I can for the game.  If you all are able (and willing, somewhat of an if), please do go ahead and post in the IC.  We're now on Round 1 of Combat 3.


----------



## mfloyd3

If it doesn't obstruct things, can I have Elyra hold off posting until after the goblins move?  I suspect the battlefield will change quite a bit.  Other slow-initiative PCs might want to do the same.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Absolutely, you always have the option to delay.  

You can use the Initiative tracker at the bottom of each DM post to determine where, in the initiative order, you wish to delay - or - if you manage to catch me on the fly, you can let me know when you want to come in.

And is it just me, or is the site amazingly zippy this afternoon?  It currently seems to be faster than it has been in about two or three years.  Hope that trend continues!


----------



## mfloyd3

Sorry, my post was unclear.  Elyra goes on 11; the Goblins finish on 13.  I just wanted to see where the goblins were before writing her post, as there's no sense having her run past any of them or anything like that.  Probably that affects Grokk and Sivan as well.  Can we get a GM post saying where the goblins are going and what they're doing before we move?


----------



## Shayuri

Woot! We seem better!

I have many posts to do, but I'm back!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Can we get a GM post saying where the goblins are going and what they're doing before we move?



 Yes.  I'm waiting for Shayuri to post for Talashia, and then I'll post a run-down of Tal, Taran, Tac, and the goblins.  I'll pause mid-init to give the rest of you a chance to consider your actions for the round.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Incidentally, how many of you (if any at all) either have ordered or know for certain you will order the Pathfinder RPG that's coming out on August 13th?  

I did something quite naughty yesterday and ordered the hardcover for $32 on amazon.  I hate .pdfs--I'm ready to start leafing through actual paper pages when I want to look up data.  

If everyone will have the official non-beta RPG, then we can switch over.  If not everyone will use the official copy, we'll stay beta.  I certainly will NOT ask anyone to spend money on a D&D game.  Viva free!


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> Incidentally, how many of you (if any at all) either have ordered or know for certain you will order the Pathfinder RPG that's coming out on August 13th?
> 
> I did something quite naughty yesterday and ordered the hardcover for $32 on amazon.  I hate .pdfs--I'm ready to start leafing through actual paper pages when I want to look up data.
> 
> If everyone will have the official non-beta RPG, then we can switch over.  If not everyone will use the official copy, we'll stay beta.  I certainly will NOT ask anyone to spend money on a D&D game.  Viva free!




I very much want the official version, but I probably won't have the funds until a few months after it's released. 

jason


----------



## Ambrus

I similarly ordered my copy from Amazon a few days ago. Maybe it's only in Canada, but amazon lists the shipping date for the book as the beginning of September rather than mid August.


----------



## Walking Dad

CanadienneBacon said:


> Incidentally, how many of you (if any at all) either have ordered or know for certain you will order the Pathfinder RPG that's coming out on August 13th?
> 
> I did something quite naughty yesterday and ordered the hardcover for $32 on amazon.  I hate .pdfs--I'm ready to start leafing through actual paper pages when I want to look up data.
> 
> If everyone will have the official non-beta RPG, then we can switch over.  If not everyone will use the official copy, we'll stay beta.  I certainly will NOT ask anyone to spend money on a D&D game.  Viva free!




Will wait and try to get a look at the rules by a friend first. But the paladin sounds much better now...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I ordered Pathfinder for purposes other than this game, so if you guys aren't buying the book, it's absolutely no sweat.  

I really do prefer for folks not to have to spend money to play D&D and thus have no problem keeping this game with the free beta ruleset that we're currently using.  Only reason I brought up the hardcover was because I figured there was a -small- chance that everyone here was buying the book, in which case it would be silly to continue on with the beta.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It's been a few days and the site is still running very nicely.    I took down the "Back in Action" tag in the thread title; hopefully, we're all settled back in now and no more lapses will be forthcoming in the near future.

I just checked in over at the IC and saw that Shayuri has posted for Talashia, so tonight I'll do a combat post -- complete with a mid-round pause so that players can re-assess actions after the goblins take their turn.  Say around 9:30 pm.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

10:23 pm -- Got sucked into the dreaded Facebook.  Sorry.  Going over to the IC now to post.

Edit--Round 1 actions for Talashia, Taran, Tac, Goblin Commando, and four goblin sentries is posted.  Holding for actions from Elyra, Grokk, and Sivan.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Round 1 update has been posted.  We are now starting Round 2.  Talashia is injured.  Merlin's Shadow didn't provide a post for Grokk for Round 1, so I had him hustle behind the house to head off Goblin1 (I was loathe to consume a spell from his list, even to heal a friend).  If Talashia receives a second injury but Merlin's Shadow hasn't posted for Grokk by the time I need to put up a combat summation, I'll have Grokk heal her.

Shayuri, I saw your post for Tal for Round 2 but since you posted that while we were still dealing with the second half of Round 1 if you want to switch up your character's action for the round, please just go ahead and post a re-declaration or do an edit of your last post.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll do another mid-round pause to let Elyra, Grokk, and Sivan review the battlefield before they act.  A check of the IC this morning showed that we have posts from Talashia, Taran, and Tac, so all the pieces are in place for me to do the combat post.  Today, however, is my twins' birthday and I still have some baking to do this afternoon after work.  I was up until 3 am last night, making lemon cheesecake and all other manner of cake confections and thus don't think I'll be staying up very late at all tonight.

Up-shot:  might not be until tomorrow for a DM post from me.  I'll try for this afternoon, but a third cake (don't ask) and a nap are looking like they'll be in order.


----------



## Ambrus

I hope the twins have a great birthday full of baked goodness and that you get your well deserved nap. Take care.


----------



## Walking Dad

CanadienneBacon said:


> I ordered Pathfinder for purposes other than this game, so if you guys aren't buying the book, it's absolutely no sweat.
> 
> I really do prefer for folks not to have to spend money to play D&D and thus have no problem keeping this game with the free beta ruleset that we're currently using.  Only reason I brought up the hardcover was because I figured there was a -small- chance that everyone here was buying the book, in which case it would be silly to continue on with the beta.




Or, without spending money, we could just use the official SRD (PRD):
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document

Looks nice


----------



## Shayuri

I'm good with converting "up" to the final rules. It'd be good to help keep things straight, and from what I've seen so far, the final rules seem more...polished.


----------



## jkason

Walking Dad said:


> Or, without spending money, we could just use the official SRD (PRD):
> Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document
> 
> Looks nice




Oh, awesome! I shouldn't have a problem converting, then, since this is available. And it doesn't look like Tac's going to change that much anyway. He'll lose the random weapon proficiency (for a weapon he doesn't even own), Get the new Trapfinding bonus (which is quite nice, I think, and probably a better way to make Rogues better at trapfinding than the arbitrary DC cap for non-rogues), and doesn't have to declare Dodge is in effect. I'm all for it.

jason


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm home this afternoon and will see about prepping and posting a DM combat post for our IC.

I have yet to receive my pre-order of the PF hardcover from amazon.com.  When I checked my account at amazon this afternoon, I saw a shipping estimate for the PF book of August 24.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Round 2 combat post is up.  Again, I've paused mid-round to let Elyra, Grokk, and Sivan assess the battlefield before declaring their Round 2 actions.  

The goblin commando, goblin dog, and goblin2 are dropped.  Goblin 4 is running away, south.  Goblin1 is engaged in melee behind the house with Grokk.  Goblin3 is untouched and is busy poking the human nobleman with its dogslicer.  

I owe you guys XP.  Look for it in the RG sometime early this week--when I post it, I'll provide a link here in the OOC.

Has anyone seen Merlin's Shadow lately?  I'm wondering if he will return to post for Grokk.  Possible explanations for his recent absence might include frustration with the ENWorld server issues (I note his last activity was July 15), or with the July/August slow pace of this particular game (though, you'll all remember, please, that I did make it clear up front that this game would entertain lulls in activity).  Let me know if anyone has news of Merlin's Shadow, please.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Round 2 has been updated.  One goblin is running away, one is behind a house engaged in melee with Grokk, and one has just been intimidated by Sivan.  

We're now on Round 3.  For those of you who declared actions for Round 3 before I posted Round 2 results for Elyra, Grokk, and Sivan, you're welcome to re-declare for Round 3 via edit or new post if you so choose.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I started a brand new 3.5 game here at home, and half the crew is new to D&D and doesn't currently possess a PHB.  We're sharing and that's fine for the moment, but I'd like to get my hands on a pair of used but serviceable 3.5 PHB.  A check of e-bay revealed only two for sale, both overpriced (not sure what's going on there, it used to be that you could find a used PHB for cheap at every turn).

Do any of you have a 3.5 PHB or two sitting around that you're interested in selling?  I'm interested in buying what you have.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> For those of you who declared actions for Round 3 before I posted Round 2 results for Elyra, Grokk, and Sivan, you're welcome to re-declare for Round 3 via edit or new post if you so choose.



I'm content with my declared actions as they are.

So, anyone have a decent ranged attack with which to shoot the fleeing goblin?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll be out of town Friday evening through Sunday.  Catch up with ya'll on Monday afternoon.  Before I head out tonight I'll look in the IC to see if posts for Talashia and Taran have appeared, meriting a DM response.


----------



## Shayuri

I thought I posted...doing a magnificent 2 points of damage...

Was that last turn?

Argh. *holds head*

I'll go check.


----------



## Ambrus

Round three actions have all been posted for Talashia, Taran and Tac. We're waiting on the results and the goblins' actions to proceed.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> I thought I posted...doing a magnificent 2 points of damage...
> 
> Was that last turn?
> 
> Argh. *holds head*
> 
> I'll go check.






Ambrus said:


> Round three actions have all been posted for Talashia, Taran and Tac. We're waiting on the results and the goblins' actions to proceed.



Eh.  Scheisse.   

I seem to be the victim of my own strategy to update mid-round; forgot to scroll up to look for posts...for the last couple of days I've only been seeing jkason's post for Tac.  

Shayuri,  I'm rolling damage for everyone.  You can stop providing links to damage rolls.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Apologies for the delay.  Here is the completed combat post.  Map forthcoming.

Grokk and Talashia have been wounded, Grokk badly so.  All foes (save for the fleeing Goblin4) are dead, and nothing is spotted at hand.  If someone wants to track down Goblin4, let me know and we'll handle that come Monday after I return home.  The goblin has a big head start on you, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.


----------



## Ambrus

As I mentioned in my IC post, Sanstone intends to give chase on the fleeing goblin right after the harrying goblin was dispatched. I'll post IC to that effect.

The distance isn't so much that a decent bow or crossbow shot could dispatch it though; Sandstone just doesn't happen to carry ranged weapons.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Advance to W9 and attack goblin 3 if it remains alive, charging if possible; Melee bite +4 (1d6+4). If it's been felled then double move instead to V16 to pursue goblin 4.



I read that as Sandstone would attack Goblin3, and would only pursue Goblin4 if Goblin3 had been taken care of (it hadn't yet).  Now that Goblin3's been felled, we can have Sandstone give chase after Goblin4 (but, again, gotta wait 'til Monday when I get back).



> The distance isn't so much that a decent bow or crossbow shot could dispatch it though; Sandstone just doesn't happen to carry ranged weapons.



Excepting, of course, any twists in the byway and/or the the possibility that the creature turns between buildings.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Excepting, of course, any twists in the byway and/or the the possibility that the creature turns between buildings.



It might certainly do that eventually but there seems to be a solid wall of buildings along the east side of the thoroughfare along which the goblin is fleeing; all the way past the cathedral facade. So during the rest of round three at least and probably into round four it'd seem that anyone stepping around the corner building would have a clear shot at the fleeing creature. If it slows down to round corners then all the better; it'll make it that much easier to catch up.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

XP has been posted.  I ended up waiting until the last of the goblins in the most recent encounter had been dispatched before tallying and posting XP, which is why I'm posting XP today vice early last week.  

Please double check the treasure log in the post to which I've linked above.  I believe the log is accurate, reflecting items searched for and taken from the encounter at the bonfire with the warchanter and her minions.  I don't believe anyone had time to search for and take any other treasure--the pace early on kept everyone hopping.  If I'm wrong, let me know.

In attending my husband's 20th high school reunion this weekend, I seem to have caught a rather unpleasant cold.  I need to rest for a bit around lunch but will try my best to post a continuation in the IC this afternoon.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I sent an e-mail last week to Merlin's Shadow, to the address he registered on EN World, but have yet to receive a response.  He disappeared from posting around the time the server went down in July, but his "Last Seen" status registers as 17 August 2009.  I'll add his name to the thread title, indicating we're paging him.  If he doesn't respond within three days, I'll NPC him to a stopping point and we'll make other arrangements for the role of party healer at that time.


----------



## Shayuri

Meep. Okay.

On an unrelated note...are we updating to final Pathfinder? I recall mention of it, but not whether or not a final decision was made.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

My pre-order of the hardcover is scheduled to arrive August 28.  I thought I'd wait to read through the official release before deciding whether to implement it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Bumping this to the first page on the hope that Merlin's Shadow will show up.  Last day, then I'll think about how I prefer to go about business w/o him.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've had no response from Merlin's Shadow in any form by which I've tried to contact him--not e-mail, a posted note on his account here, or by paging him to this thread.  I'm putting his character on NPC status, to be played by me until such a time as we work out how we want to move forward with the cleric slot for this game.

You'll want a healer in the group.  I'll want you to have a healer in the group.  Ya'll are roughly halfway to 2nd level.  Is there one among you who may have been toying with the idea of a multiclassed character and is interested in pursuing levels in cleric?  Please don't answer in the affirmative unless you genuinely were gunning for multiclass xx/cleric.  

If no one feels compelled to multiclass to cleric starting at 2nd level, then I think we still have numerous options, the chief two of which in my mind are for me to either gift the five existing players with healing potions and/or a special wand of some sort, or we can recruit for a sixth player to fill the cleric slot.

I'm open to your ideas.  My primary concern is party cohesion and making sure that those who play in this game "gel."  If any of you are feeling like you particularly want or don't want to pursue the options I describe above, please speak up.


----------



## jkason

I like playing clerics, but I kind of feel like Tac's concept doesn't really lend itself to the clergy. Barring a few significant in-game events to move him that way, he's very much a character drawn most to the material world. Mind you, I have no idea where this AP is going; for all I know, the next few encounters might be the kind of thing that turn Tac to thoughts of the next world. 

If no one else wants to multiclass, we do have a Paladin and a Ranger, though. Since both of them have CLW in their spell lists, I think they're both able to use wands of same, which might be a decent choice for now.

jason


----------



## Ambrus

I'm not really in a position to multiclass with my monster class. In my experience a wand of cure light wounds is generally an adequate substitute in lieu of a proper healer PC. If it all possible I usually prefer to avoid recruiting additional players; smaller games are often more cohesive and faster since they require less time for everyone to chime in.


----------



## mfloyd3

Sorry I have been absent on these boards -- I've been extremely busy with the start of classes here.  I've been tracking the IC, but haven't checked the OOC board as often as I should have.

Re:  Treasure, Elyra picked up a jar of green liquid off one goblin at the end of page 6.  The action moved on before I said what she did with it -- Can we assume she pocketed it?  (I sure *hope* it's treasure -- I would hate to find out the goblin was, say, carrying a sample to give to his proctologist).

I don't picture Elyra as clergy.  If we do without a cleric, though, I may have her take Heal at next level (class skil for Rangers).  That can supplement wands, potions, whatever, at least minimally.


----------



## Shayuri

A curestick can replace a cleric for healing at low levels. Eventually we'll be needing Lesser Restorations and/or Restorations and Neutralize Poison as well, but we can address that issue when we come to it. Potions or scrolls might work, since those spells aren't generally needed often (but are really important when they are needed).

In summary, replacing cleric with item is viable for now.


----------



## Walking Dad

Not interested in multiclassing. But Sivan will get lay on hands at level two and Channel energy on level 4. If the update to the final rules set, he will also get mercy on level 3.

CLW wand now, with adding a lesser restoration wand later sounds good to me.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

A "curestick" it is, then.  I'll NPC Grokk to a retiring point sometime in the near future (his current wounded state is probably a good prompt for retirement) and will supplement with a wand of cure *something (haven't decided quite yet).  

Don't be afraid to prompt me in the future should you want more "clerical" aid in the form of particular divine scrolls/potions/wands.  Not saying your requests will necessarily always be met with an auto-stamped Yes from me, but I'm certainly open to meeting needs/desires.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> Re:  Treasure, Elyra picked up a jar of green liquid off one goblin at the end of page 6.  The action moved on before I said what she did with it -- Can we assume she pocketed it?  (I sure *hope* it's treasure -- I would hate to find out the goblin was, say, carrying a sample to give to his proctologist).



Thanks, will add in one "Jar of clear green liquid--Goblin Pyros" to our Rogue's Gallery.  Later on page 6, you actually stated that Elyra picked up the jar, so I assumed that she went ahead and pocketed the jar as well.  Now, here's hoping it turns out to be treasure!


----------



## Ambrus

Are we waiting on anything to continue in the game thread?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Since my last DM response, only you and Tac have responded, and you only just responded recently.  Because I indicated in my last post that Taran's barking caused a stir, I have been waiting on posts from Elyra, Talashia, and/or Sivan that might indicate a reaction.  My plan was to wait until this afternoon, then if no one had posted, I intended to reply to Tac in an effort to move things along.

That clear it up for you?


----------



## Ambrus

I was likewise waiting to see whether anyone responded to the barking, then decided to post to show some sign of life.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll be home this afternoon to post an update, along with a DM nudge.  Folks probably just need a bit of pointing in the "right" direction, would be my guess.  Not that there is "right" direction in one of my games, but, well...you know what I mean!


----------



## Shayuri

I was just a bit confused. I thought we were going to the junkyard, then the gate seemed important, and then everyone was going to the inn...

But I posted now. I'm just going with the flow.


----------



## Ambrus

Well, the Inn doesn't really seem to be a concern any longer seeing as how the place is shut tight and its owner is apparently safe and sound on the inside; so no goblins there. Going to the "junkyard" is kind of misleading since Junker's Edge is in reality just a cliff at the edge of town off of which refuse is tossed. The junkyard is at the bottom of the cliff and so, even if there are goblins down there, there's little to be done about it from Junker's Edge and little they can do in turn to threaten the town. We also kind of walked past it on the way to the inn and didn't see any problems there at the time. So that leaves the unguarded city gate...

When in doubt, follow the guide dog.


----------



## jkason

I wanted to clarify that Tac's 'leave Sandstone behind' is my attempt at an honest character choice, not a real suggestion as a player that we split the party. 

I'm trying to be true to the idea that no one but Elyra (and possibly Talashia) has any inkling of Taran's true nature. He's acted like a dog this whole time, and Tac's known him only as the town stray. Helpful (and clearly combat-effective), but still Just A Dog. 

As such, it seems right that Tac's inclination would be to not put the dog in harm's way, which is where that comes from. I figure Elyra's influence for now is probably more than sufficient to override Tac's concerns, and I'm hoping/assuming eventually we get to a point where the party, at least, knows Taran's intelligent, etc. But in the meantime, I wanted to try to avoid meta-gaming and have Tac reply like he would with a normal stray. 

Hope that makes sense. 

jason


----------



## Ambrus

By all means, treat Sandstone as just a dog; that's how I portray him and it'd seen oddly incongruous if PCs or NPCs regarded him otherwise. I'm not adverse to the other PCs discovering his true nature, but nor am I in a hurry to reveal it either; it's not a priority. I figure it'll happen naturally if and when it ever comes up in game play. In the meantime characters can treat him however they would a kindly stray. Simply keep in mind that he _is_ a stray and, being untrained, he often does what he wants in disregard of the commands given to him.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> I was just a bit confused. I thought we were going to the junkyard, then the gate seemed important, and then everyone was going to the inn...
> 
> But I posted now. I'm just going with the flow.



The Sheriff and his posse were going to the junkyard; ya'll were tasked by the Sheriff to investigate the White Deer.  Now that you've dealt with investigating the White Deer Inn and Tavern, you are basically free to go where you desire.  I'm sure the Sheriff would appreciate a report about activity at the Deer, but that's up to you.  (Kudos to you for going with the flow, though...I've always thought that's the mark of a great player).


----------



## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> I wanted to clarify that Tac's 'leave Sandstone behind' is my attempt at an honest character choice, not a real suggestion as a player that we split the party.



  A just and honorable proposition.  The only person to make their Perception check yet about Taran's identity is Elyra.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

A copy and paste from the IC:



			
				Ambrus said:
			
		

> OOC: CB, What's involved in closing and barring the gate?



The gate is wood, of good quality, and consists of a set of hinged double doors that are normally barred from the inside with a wooden plank that the town guards insert into a pair of brackets.  To close the door is a simple matter for an upright person with two free hands.  You pull the heavy wooden gate doors closed, then slide the wooden bar into place.  The bar is normally stored either propped up beside the wall adjacent to the gate.  There's no gatehouse...it's all rather low-tech.  Sandpoint isn't that large a town, and hasn't been around long enough for a more defendable stone archway and iron portcullis to be designed and built.  

I think you'll find that, upon exiting the White Deer, help for the gate is on the way.  I'll be home this weekend and available to post--when it looks like everyone's ready to leave the Deer, I'll put up a continuation.  Unless, that is, you want Taran to do something specific with regard to the open Gate.  Either way, I'll keep my eye on the IC and make myself available to post.  Let me know if you'd like more info.


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> A just and honorable proposition.  The only person to make their Perception check yet about Taran's identity is Elyra.




Oh, good. I'm trying to walk the line so that I can play what Tac knows fairly without hamstringing Taran / the party. 

And speaking of Elyra, I'll throw this here rather than in IC again: Tac's previous offer to lend Elyra his bow (which was made in the less than ideal midst of combat before) until whatever point we can return to claim the rest of her gear still stands. I figure he'd probably be tickled if his 'real adventurer' cousin caused some damage with his bow. He's still under the impression that what's going on is just a minor daliance and he'll be back to engineering by tomorrow, so it's not like he's got 'I need to practice' on the brain, either. 

jason

jason


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> To close the door is a simple matter for an upright person with two free hands.  You pull the heavy wooden gate doors closed, then slide the wooden bar into place.



Sandstone is loathe to close the gate without knowing whether any townsfolk remain outside for some reason.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Such a caring, loving, and loyal dog.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Such a caring, loving, and loyal dog.



For sure!







CanadienneBacon said:


> The "sniffing around the gateway" is basically descriptive fluff, right?  Taran's character sheet doesn't include Scent, which really wouldn't be merited anyway since he's using _disguise_ to maintain his dog form. If you've something on his character sheet that merits more detail from me, please let me know.



Yeah, it's a purely descriptive canine thing; Sandstone doesn't have the scent ability. He does have _keen senses_ that would likely help to mitigate the effects of the fog however and _darkvision_ to pierce the darkness; possibly helpful in finding faint details in present conditions.

The Disguise spell doesn't affect, either negatively or positively, a recipient's senses BTW.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Even though I checked both the RG and the hard copy character sheet I maintain for Taran, I somehow missed the darkvision.  I did, however, know that disguise doesn't grant special abilities--I tried to impart this in my IC post to you but I guess it didn't come through.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll try to hop online this evening, late, to get a post up in our IC. Just didn't work out for this afternoon--started to check in at ENWorld, but then got sidetracked with phone calls.


----------



## Walking Dad

Sorry for posting slowly, but I got a bit confused. Will try to get in line.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

WalkingDad, what's confusing you?  Let me know so I can help you sort it out.

I hope everyone knows that if there is ever a time when you're not sure what the devil is going on during play, you are certainly free to contact me here in the OOC or by e-mail.

I've posted my e-mail address in the past, but I'll re-post it so that you don't have to dig through my profile or through back pages of this thread:

wlburford@hotmail.com

I check numerous times a day.  I'm also on Facebook...search for Wendy Lee Burford in Louisville, Kentucky, USA, and add me as a friend.


----------



## mfloyd3

jkason said:


> And speaking of Elyra, I'll throw this here rather than in IC again: Tac's previous offer to lend Elyra his bow (which was made in the less than ideal midst of combat before) until whatever point we can return to claim the rest of her gear still stands. I figure he'd probably be tickled if his 'real adventurer' cousin caused some damage with his bow. He's still under the impression that what's going on is just a minor daliance and he'll be back to engineering by tomorrow, so it's not like he's got 'I need to practice' on the brain, either.




For the record, Elyra is declining the bow because she would rather have Tac firing from a distance than charging in with that silly cattle prod (excuse me, rapier).

Ah, family.


----------



## jkason

mfloyd3 said:


> For the record, Elyra is declining the bow because she would rather have Tac firing from a distance than charging in with that silly cattle prod (excuse me, rapier).
> 
> Ah, family.




LOL. I love it.


----------



## Walking Dad

I wasn't sure about Sivan's location, but I think he will just follow the 'dog' now.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Walking Dad said:


> I wasn't sure about Sivan's location, but I think he will just follow the 'dog' now.



We didn't have a post from you as often as some of the others were posting, so I had Sivan shuffle along with the rest of the group...this meant that first he was inside the White Deer Inn and Tavern, and then we went outside the Deer and was standing in front of it when the two guardsmen approached.  After that, everyone moved off to the North Gate, which is just around the corner.

There is a map of Sandpoint in the originating post of our IC, along with a key.  The White Deer and the North Gate are both on it.  I normally only do position maps when there is a combat going; if we're roleplaying without combat, I won't do a map.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've had a pointlessly draining day.  Other than to post in one combat-imminent game in which I play, I plan to take the night off of EN World posting.  I'll check back in Friday or Saturday morning.


----------



## Walking Dad

CanadienneBacon said:


> We didn't have a post from you as often as some of the others were posting, so I had Sivan shuffle along with the rest of the group...this meant that first he was inside the White Deer Inn and Tavern, and then we went outside the Deer and was standing in front of it when the two guardsmen approached.  After that, everyone moved off to the North Gate, which is just around the corner.
> 
> There is a map of Sandpoint in the originating post of our IC, along with a key.  The White Deer and the North Gate are both on it.  I normally only do position maps when there is a combat going; if we're roleplaying without combat, I won't do a map.



That's alright. No need for a map. For posting, I didn't saw as many opportunities for engaging in a talk. But that was mostly my fault. I like this game


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> BTW, what's with the "bit of fresh earth has been dug up near one of the tombstones"? How much earth are we talking about? Is it a freshly dug grave or someone's preliminary attempt to dig up a body? What's written on the tombstone?



My use of the phrase "bit of" isn't accurate.  It's a good deal more than "bit of."  Someone has dug up an entire grave and removed the contents.


----------



## Ambrus

And whose grave is it?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Did Taran pause to read the stone the first time he was in the boneyard?  If he didn't, it's no problem, but you'll need to wait until Taran returns to the boneyard to have a look.  I'm waiting on at least one of the others to indicate that they'll have their PC follow after the dog before introducing more info.  

I'll be home until 11:30 am this morning.  If you feel Taran read the stone the first time he was in the boneyard, let me know and I'll provide more info.  I have a tabletop game this evening, so if I don't manage to catch you this morning, I'll check back in on Saturday.


----------



## Ambrus

It would have been a matter of circumstance. It wasn't initially clear how extensive the digging had been or how close by it was when my PC noticed it the first time. My PC is certainly inquisitive and would have paused to check out the grave if it was along the path he was following in pursuit of the goblin, if it meant he wasn't going to lose sight of the goblin and if it was clearly something abnormal.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

HERE LIES
Father Ezekiel Tobyn
In memorium of a life given to service​


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That's the gravestone at the head of the dug-up plot.  I will do a Knowledge (local) check for Taran when get home (should be around 7 pm this evening) to determine how much more info I can provide.


----------



## Ambrus

Oh dear... 

I already know something about he and his daughter since they're mentioned in the Sandpoint background you posted on the first page.


----------



## Walking Dad

Is the background info character knowledge?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I advise each of you to review the background info and decide for yourselves whether you think your PC would know what's in there.  If you are a long-time native of Sandpoint or if you grew up in Sandpoint but moved away, odds are you would know Father Ezekiel Tobyn.  He was the long-time priest of the Sandpoint Temple.  When the original church burned to the ground five years ago during the "Late Unpleasantness," Father Tobyn burnt with it, along with his adopted daughter.


----------



## Ambrus

Having grown up in Sandpoint, being something of a scholar and possessing a decent Knowledge (local) bonus I figure that my character is well versed in the area's background and notable personalities. He never met father Tobyn before his death though; my character wasn't alive then.


----------



## Ambrus

Double post.


----------



## jkason

Given that Tac's been working on rebuilding the temple, it seems logical that at some point he'd have heard what happened to the previous one, so I figure it's reasonable that he'd recognize the name, though he'd likely know little more than the fact the man died in the fire at the old church.


----------



## Shayuri

CanadienneBacon said:


> I advise each of you to review the background info and decide for yourselves whether you think your PC would know what's in there.  If you are a long-time native of Sandpoint or if you grew up in Sandpoint but moved away, odds are you would know Father Ezekiel Tobyn.  He was the long-time priest of the Sandpoint Temple.  When the original church burned to the ground five years ago during the "Late Unpleasantness," Father Tobyn burnt with it, along with his adopted daughter.




Gah!

Talashia would know Tobyn then. But she wasn't there for the fire, so she'd have no idea he was dead...and might be wondering why he wasn't at the dedication...

Hee!


----------



## Ambrus

mfloyd3 said:


> If she sees an easy way to do it, she will try to get a look at somewhere she saw Sandstone step, just to see what his prints look like.



Darn. I was hoping you wouldn't think of that.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri, glad you elected to keep this game.  If, in the future, you need to drop out, just know that while you'd be missed (as would Talashia), there would be no hard feelings and you'd be welcome again at my gaming table.  

I'll check the IC here in a bit.  I'm off work today but have chores to complete, so posting will be my "break" between chores.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

As far as I know, Ernie had the only light source and he stayed back at the North Gate.  Let me know if I'm wrong about that. One of you has darkvision but that won't help Elyra track in the dark and fog, because she's stuck with human sight.


----------



## Shayuri

Talashia has a light cantrip, I believe. Dancing Lights or Light...

Hragh. I'd better check to make sure...

- Edit: Yeah! Dancing Lights. Hand on, Elyra...your life's about to become easier.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I got as far as logging on and writing a post for the IC that pertains to Elyra's examination of Taran's tracks but when I hit the submit button, EN World timed out on me and I was unable to pull up the website afterward--despite repeated attempts to do so until I gave up in frustration.

I'm at work this morning but will post about Taran's tracks when I get home today.  I've taken to hitting Control+C everytime I try to post here before hitting the submit button, so I've got my response typed up and saved in a notepad file on my home hard drive.  Just a matter of getting to it and getting it online for you all to view.

Anyone else having trouble with EN World's accessibility the last two to three days?


----------



## Shayuri

Yesterday it was a bit slow and spotty for awhile.

Seems fine now.


----------



## jkason

It's been going back and forth with me the last few days, too. Sometimes it's fine, others it's painfully slow. Not sure if that's traffic related or just random. I've taken to opening all the threads I want to read in individual tabs all at once, so that I can read whichever one manages to load first while the other churn (at least, that's the theory...).

jason


----------



## CanadienneBacon

After viewing the IC, I see that the post I tried to make last night actually took (despite all appearance to the contrary at the time).  You all therefore have everything I'd planned for you to have.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

All--I seem to have caught a cold.  Again.  I'll be out of the loop for a couple more days while I get better.


----------



## jkason

Sorry to hear it. Don't worry, though. Concentrate on getting better and we'll still be here when you come out the other side.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm on the mend.  Seems as if the entire campus here got hit with a particularly infectious brand of the common cold.  I'm still coughing and generally out of breath if I attempt stairs but am otherwise better.  I'm forcing myself back into a more normal routine, which includes posting.

Regarding the IC, though I've had the group re-assemble at the town garrison, my intent isn't to spend forever and a day making you guys post a possibly tedious recount of the goings on at the White Deer.  We're heading toward a chapter end and are very near to that goal, so all I need from you is that you quickly debrief the sheriff (or not, depending on your whim).  If the sheriff or the mayor have anything to impart to you, they'll do it here and then you lot can find a place to sleep for the night.  I have a few things I may or may not drop your way from the sheriff, depending on how the report goes and where we seem to be as a whole.


----------



## Ambrus

Glad to hear you're on the mend.

Before skipping ahead too far I'd just like to ensure that, one way or another, that dang ladder from the Boneyard wall gets brought into the city; it kind of defeats the whole purpose of the wall.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I haven't read the IC yet today...has anyone indicated they'd like to do something about the ladder?  I'll need one of you to post to that effect before I can assist...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

...if only dogs could talk.


----------



## Ambrus

Who says they can't? 

I'll post shortly to the effect that Sandstone will endeavor to remove the ladder along with other nighttime activities he has planned.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I think I would fall out of my chair laughing if Taran decided he needed to speak up about the ladder.  I'm having visions a la the movie Road Trip:

"Hey, Old Man.  Tell Grandma to get in the kitchen and make me some blueberry pancakes."


----------



## mfloyd3

This is going to get interesting.  I was planning on having Elyra try to shadow the "dog".


----------



## Ambrus

But can she see in the dark?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

At this point, I really only need to hear from PCs who intend to do something *other* than sleep.  Ambrus posted to this effect for Taran.  Anyone else have specific night time action/s to declare?  I'll wait a little while today before I post in the IC, but I plan to DM fiat that "you sleep through the night" by this afternoon--at least for those of you who don't declare otherwise.

For those of you who do declare otherwise, I haven't quite figured out how to communicate the results of your PCs action/s to you...will probably come in the form of an sblocked post in the IC, depending on how many of you plan to stay awake and what the nature of your night's activities are.  If there are more of you and/or the situation requires group interaction and not individual investigation, we'll probably just leave things to open posting (though resolution via e-mail could be an option, too).


----------



## Ambrus

You have my email address if you'd ever care to send me something discreetly. I also didn't intend you to have to type a long itemized response for my PC's nighttime activities; a brief post stating any pertinent results (or lack thereof) is fine with me. Also, in case it wasn't obvious, I intended Sandstone to be discreet in his activities; he'll endeavor to be unobserved while pursuing his goals.


----------



## jkason

Sorry about the delay. Yesterday was a very full one, and I didn't really have time to post. Done now, though, and since Tac is (per usual) blissfully ignorant of ulterior motives, he'll sleep through the night, without realizing the dog or his cousin have plans for sneaky sneaking overnight.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Is Elyra going to shadow Sandstone during the night, or was that just idle chat?


----------



## Ambrus

I'm fairly certain mfloyd3 was serious in that Elyra would _try_ to stealthily follow Sandstone around in the dark. She's kind of funny that way...


----------



## mfloyd3

Ambrus said:


> I'm fairly certain mfloyd3 was serious in that Elyra would _try_ to stealthily follow Sandstone around in the dark. She's kind of funny that way...




Guilty as charged!  I just posted in the IC threat to try to get away from Tac.  Then it's tailing the guy with the tail.


----------



## Ambrus

mfloyd3 said:


> Then it's tailing the guy with the tail.



So is Elyra going to be using a light source while skulking around or is she simply going to fumble around in the dark?


----------



## mfloyd3

Ambrus said:


> So is Elyra going to be using a light source while skulking around or is she simply going to fumble around in the dark?




Working by star or moonlight, however much of each is there.  Remember, she's got no way of knowing Ambrus has darkvision.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I had a post typed up and written yesterday but when EN World was taking forever to load pages, I elected to save my work on Notepad and try again at a later date.  I was able to get on the site this morning and have posted a DM's response--sorry for the delay.  The site's been inconsistent for me.  We are now on Day 2 of in-game time.

I'm still working my way through the Pathfinder core rulebook.  I haven't seen anything I hate.  Let's go ahead and make the switch from the beta rules to the official Pathfinder rules.  Caveat:  It's likely that I'll suffer some amount of 3.5/PF rules confusion for a while, since I'm running a 3.5 tabletop in real life but also running PF online.  Gentle reminders of PF rules alterations from players will be appreciated when/if you feel I've made an error.


----------



## Ambrus

Are there any hit points to be regained during the night?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

After an uninterrupted 8-hour sleep, you regain your level in HP, yes.  I was pleased to see upon checking the hardcover that PF has not altered this rule.


----------



## Walking Dad

New Sivan is in the same post as his old sheet.


----------



## jkason

Tac should be updated now, as well. I didn't notice a whole lot of changes, but here's what I did see:

* Added Combat Maneuver Defense 
* Eliminated human bonus weapon proficiency
* Dodge now no longer takes an action to activate (but is lost when flatfooted)
* Acrobatics bonus to defensive fighting now requires two more ranks
* 1/2 rogue level (min 1) added to Perception checks for traps and Disable Device.

I think everything else that's different didn't affect Tac's current build. Let me know if I missed anything, though, and I'll change it. :0

jason


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I noticed that Sivan's feats are new and different.  As everyone gets their updates posted to their character sheets, I'll vet the new information as you post it.  I'll try to have everyone done within a week's time.


----------



## Walking Dad

M y old feat chain wasn't longer available. Hope you are ok with the changes.


----------



## mfloyd3

CanadienneBacon said:


> I noticed that Sivan's feats are new and different.  As everyone gets their updates posted to their character sheets, I'll vet the new information as you post it.  I'll try to have everyone done within a week's time.




Could I have a little more time on this?  I took a quick look and did not see any changes to Elyra based on what has been posted on the srd, but I have not had time to go through in detail.  I don't think I'll be able to get to it until after this weekend.


----------



## Ambrus

At a glance, I don't think there's much that needs to be done to update Taran. To be certain I'd have to see the updated entry for dragons in the upcoming Bestiary. I'll try to go over my character sheet in the next few days.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Take the time you need to go over your characters, no worries.  I'm not feeling at all rushed to have you guys officially convert character stats.  Any inconsistencies during combat that pop up due to rules confusion can be dealt with a piece at a time as need be.


----------



## Shayuri

Doh. Talashia's at-will lightning zap became limited per day. Guess I'd better buy a crossbow after all.


----------



## Walking Dad

Shayuri said:


> Doh. Talashia's at-will lightning zap became limited per day. Guess I'd better buy a crossbow after all.



This is one of the things I liked more in the beta...


----------



## Ambrus

I've gone over my character sheet and updated it as best I could. I'd really need the Beastiary to finish the job properly though. For instance, I suspect that Taran will gain the Aquatic subtype, but there's no mention of what effect that might have in the SRD.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I _really_ don't want anyone to buy anything for this game.  About the only reason I think you could justify a purchase would be if you knew for sure that you needed it for something else and had the cash to spare...for some of you, that will ring true--for others, it won't.  My basic hope is that we all be able to play for free or as close to free as we can.  I personally bought a copy of the hardcover because I plan to start using it after I'm done with my current 3.5 tabletop game, but I won't be purchasing the Bestiary.  I certainly won't ask or suggest that anyone in this game purchase the Bestiary (or anything else, for that matter).

Please, do the best you can with the tools you have, and we won't sweat the rest.  If things come up during play that seem inconsistent to us, I'll adjudicate on a case-by-case basis.


----------



## Shayuri

Easy solution for something as specific as this. Just graze the Bestiary next time you're in a game store and look up the specific section in the book with your dragon type in it. 

Granted, you won't want to write notes or anything, but you don't have to memorize anything except the differences between Pathfinder and SRD...which probably aren't very many.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Shayuri said:


> Just graze the Bestiary next time you're in a game store and look up the specific section in the book with your dragon type in it.



I had a good hearty laugh at this, though I hope you'll understand that it wasn't at your expense.  Uh, with four children, a job, and a husband who is a full-time graduate student and who holds down a church placement internship, there is no such thing as "the next time I'm in a game store."  

I haven't been to a game store in, like, four years.  No time!  Heck, I think I only went one place by myself all of this entire year so far.


----------



## Ambrus

Shayuri said:


> Granted, you won't want to write notes or anything



I've uh, been known to do just that. Mind you that's while sitting and reading in Indigo rather than a FLGS. 

But I'll likely buy the Bestiary outright for my own campaign when it comes out.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Your idea is a good one, though, Shayuri.  If one of you happens to have occasion to peek at a friend's Bestiary, that would work.  

But, again, I think we'll be okay just holding out.  The module has all the adventure-specific monsters included in a section in the back few pages, and everything else is standard D&D fare (goblinoids, etc.).  I haven't noticed changes to stock core elements of the game, and goblins would certainly fill the bill as a "stock core element."


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> I haven't been to a game store in, like, four years.  No time!



You poor, poor woman! I'd lose my mind if I were you.


----------



## Walking Dad

CanadienneBacon said:


> Your idea is a good one, though, Shayuri.  If one of you happens to have occasion to peek at a friend's Bestiary, that would work.
> 
> But, again, I think we'll be okay just holding out.  The module has all the adventure-specific monsters included in a section in the back few pages, and everything else is standard D&D fare (goblinoids, etc.).  I haven't noticed changes to stock core elements of the game, and goblins would certainly fill the bill as a "stock core element."



The goblins are in the free bestiary preview...

Goblin CR1/3

Goblinoid Subtype


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You know, I only mildly miss visits to the gaming store?  What I miss more is the ability to pick up and go to the movies whenever I want.  I miss the movie theater as a weekly presence in my life.  

Thanks for letting me know there is a free preview, WD.  I'll check it out.  I'd be surprised if goblins changed, but it's worth a peek.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

FYI, my community subscriber account runs out at the end of October and I think for right now I will elect not to re-up.  What this means in terms of PM access, etc., I don't exactly know.  If there is some horrible unpleasant repercussion of not having a CS account, I might re-consider my decision not to subscribe, but for right now I'm not planning to re-up.


----------



## Ambrus

A paladin's _detect evil_ ability is a spell-like ability and so doesn't require any verbal, somnatic or material components to use. But, oddly perhaps, because "a spell-like ability functions just like a spell" it can technically be identified as it is being used with a successful spellcraft skill check. That sort of implies that the act of using a spell-like ability is somehow self-evident to any potential observers as is conventional spell-casting. I'll be darned if I know what tell-tale signs observers are supposed to pick up on if the caster isn't physically doing anything though. Maybe a paladin's eye glow with heavenly fire or something; I dunno.

Also, IIRC, Elyra tossed the Sheriff the pouch of coins yesterday which he never handed back, so he should still have them I believe.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> A paladin's _detect evil_ ability is a spell-like ability and so doesn't require any verbal, somnatic or material components to use.



That's what I was looking for, thanks.  


> Also, IIRC, Elyra tossed the Sheriff the pouch of coins yesterday which he never handed back, so he should still have them I believe.



I thought about this while writing my post but deemed it reasonable that the Sheriff forgot since he had a lot going on last night.


----------



## Shayuri

Spell like abilities have no verbal or somatic components, but they still require a moment of concentration to activate. A person can recognize that (as well as unspecified, presumably subtle, cues) as an ability being used, which is what triggers an AoO if you're threatened. Spell Like abilities can't be countered though...and I don't know offhand if they're subject to identification until their effects can be observed.

In short, you can tell a 'spell' is being cast (and hence take your AoO), but you won't necessarily know WHAT spell until you see the results. It's reasonable to assume that someone specifically and closely observing a character would notice that he was using an ability of some kind (though some observers might not realize it was magic, and just think the character was distracted for some reason). A character who is being quiet and unobtrusive might be able to use an ability without attracting attention though. No rules for this, but it wouldn't be hard to improvise.

Supernatural abilities lack even that moment of concentration, in general.


----------



## jkason

Just clarifying the job here: I was under the impression we were being hired to help guard the city while the sherriff takes some men to go get reinforcements. However, Deverin just said something about ill fortune 'along the way.' Are we meant to be filling a hole left by guard leaving with the Sherriff, or to be accompanying the sherriff so that the regular guard can stay with the town? 

Thanks, and sorry if I'm being addlepated. 

jason


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You're not being addlepated.    The town wants to hire you to stay put in Sandpoint while the Sheriff travels to Magnimar to requisition reinforcements.  When I had Mayor Deverin use the term "along the way," I meant "in the course of fulfilling your contractual duties."


----------



## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> You're not being addlepated.    The town wants to hire you to stay put in Sandpoint while the Sheriff travels to Magnimar to requisition reinforcements.  When I had Mayor Deverin use the term "along the way," I meant "in the course of fulfilling your contractual duties."




Oh, good. I have a tendency sometimes to lose the thread of the plot if I'm not focused. Wanted to make sure that wasn't the case here before I veered too far off. 

jason


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## CanadienneBacon

250 XP each for roleplay (Taran for staying true to dragon form by harrying down each and every last gold piece he could, even at the expense of fatigue the next day, and Sivan, Elyra, Tac, and Talashia for roleplay, good questions, and interesting decisions made during the night and in the morning in the sheriff's office).


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## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> 250 XP each for roleplay (Taran for staying true to dragon form by harrying down each and every last gold piece he could, even at the expense of fatigue the next day, and Sivan, Elyra, Tac, and Talashia for roleplay, good questions, and interesting decisions made during the night and in the morning in the sheriff's office).




Hooray, XP! Added.


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## Ambrus

w00t! XP is a great way to kick off the weekend. 


CanadienneBacon said:


> Taran for staying true to dragon form by harrying down each and every last gold piece he could



It was hard to not collect every goblin suit of armor and dogslicer so as to make a profit off of their sale. Alas... 

BTW, are we using slow, medium or fast Pathfinfer level progression?


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## Walking Dad

jkason said:


> Hooray, XP! Added.



Added.


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> BTW, are we using slow, medium or fast Pathfinfer level progression?



Fast.  And since it takes slightly more XP in PF to get between levels, you can expect me to hand out XP more frequently and for more things (like rp during an office scene).  Play-by-post already takes forever to level up and to get stuff done, I prefer to reach milestones more frequently than a character level (for example) every year or other year.


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## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Play-by-post already takes forever to level up and to get stuff done, I prefer to reach milestones more frequently than a character level (for example) every year or other year.



Good to hear!


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## Ambrus

mfloyd3 said:


> Elyra locks eyes with the dog for just a moment, poker-faced, then turns and walks with the others toward the contact the mayor recommended.



Brrr... I take it Elyra is a cat person, right?


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## mfloyd3

Ambrus said:


> Brrr... I take it Elyra is a cat person, right?




You haven't latched on to Elyra's plan to unveil Sandstone.  She's going to take him to the vet to have him neutered!


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## Ambrus

Why do you think Sandstone never lets anyone get within arm's reach of him?


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## CanadienneBacon

mfloyd3 said:


> You haven't latched on to Elyra's plan to unveil Sandstone.  She's going to take him to the vet to have him neutered!


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## Shayuri

*insert obligatory 'Dragonball Z' joke here*

Thank you! Thanks, you're a great crowd. I'm here all week! Tip your waitresses, and enjoy the buffet!


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## CanadienneBacon

It somehow escaped me until just this morning that Sir Jasper Korvaski is gay.  Don't know how on earth I managed to miss that detail for two years, but I did.


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## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:


> Don't know how on earth I managed to miss that detail for two years, but I did.



Defective gaydar?


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## jkason

I was just about to ask if that was in the module or a tweak you made. As for missing it, honestly, with fantasy names being what they are (and, really, fantasy lit having a tendency to skew to the conservative), I had to go back to the Player's Guide to check on a gender for the theatre owner before I knew for sure. But once I had, I'll be honest and say it made me smile, that did.

Ah, but also wanted to ask: we've moved inside the building, but I was wondering if I can have Tac relay his information to the others in the space of travel before we got there? I can do that in actual dialogue, or we can handwave it (i.e. just tell everyone they know what's in that sblock) to avoid too much temporal confusion.


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## CanadienneBacon

I will be out of the loop from Friday (tomorrow) until Tuesday or Wednesday next week.  I plan to drive to Virginia for a long weekend for my family's annual Brunswick Stew.


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## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> ...I was wondering if I can have Tac relay his information to the others in the space of travel before we got there? I can do that in actual dialogue, or we can handwave it (i.e. just tell everyone they know what's in that sblock) to avoid too much temporal confusion.



I forwarded everyone from the Garrison to the Mercantile League because a.) we needed to keep things moving forward and b.) it's my job to do so.  But, yes, please do feel free to impart to the others anything your PC knows at any point you wish.  I'll handwave when I have to, but in this case, it's probably easier if you just have Tac mutter a quick aside to the others before ya'll start asking after Sir Jasper.  I'll go read the IC to see what, exactly, is up today.


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## CanadienneBacon

A check of the IC revealed that the only one to post after my last update was Ambrus (for the dog).  You should be in the clear to throw something up for Tac.


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## jkason

Oh, I'm all for getting things moving, and thank you for it. That's why I wanted to check before I threw a wrench in things by throwing in the backmatter (and wanted to set-up before hand that it was just passing on the info so I didn't inadvertantly generate a stalled scene on the way to the mercantile). Threw the post up IC.


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## CanadienneBacon

Sounds good, thanks.


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## Walking Dad

@Ambrus, here is the bronze dragon:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/dragon.html#metallic-dragon-copperMetallic Dragon, Bronze

(Metallic) Bronze (Pathfinder_OGC)

It has not the aquatic, but the water subtype. Scroll to the last entry to read:
Creature Types (Pathfinder_OGC)

*Water Subtype:* This subtype is usually used for outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane of Water. Creatures with the water subtype always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. A water creature can breathe underwater and can usually breathe air as well. Water creatures treat the Swim skill as a class skill.


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## Ambrus

Thanks Walking Dad. I'd noticed the inclusion of monsters into the PRD earlier and have already incorporated the updates, the few that there are, into my character sheet. BTW, Bronze dragons previously had the water subtype. 

CB, there are a few elements that change for my character's monster class, albeit mostly in later levels; the most straightforward of which are feats. In Pathfinder a character gains a new feat every two Hit Dice instead of every three. For a bronze dragon that means a feat at 1st (no change), 3rd (no change), 7th (instead of 9th), 11th (instead of 13th) and so on.

Two other significant changes pop as well. Oddly perhaps, a bronze dragon's ability to _speak with animals_ at will has been delayed from the *wyrmling* age category (as it was in 3.5) to the later *very young* age category. For the Bronze Dragon monster class that means that the ability is gained sometime after 10th level instead of at 2nd level.

Lastly, the only other change to the bronze dragon wyrmling (as far as I can see) is that its Dexterity score increases by +4 (from 10 to 14). That would mean that two +2 Dex ability score increases should be added to the monster class' level advancement somewhere between levels 1 and 9. Good spots to add them, in my opinion, would be levels 2, 5 and/or 9 since those are the levels without any other ability score increases. I'd suggest the first be gained at level 2 to compensate for the loss of the _speak with animals_ spell-like ability.

CB, please let me know your thoughts on these changes.
Walking Dad, please let me know if I missed some other change to the bronze dragon between 3.5 and Pathfinder.


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## CanadienneBacon

I'm here.  I sewed three Halloween costumes the past ten days and since I'm not a very good sewer, it took up all my time.  I'll be posting updates today as my time permits.


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## Shayuri

As ye sew, so shall ye reap!


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, I haven't yet looked over the changes to your character's base monster class but will do so early this week.  I have a trip to the grocery store to make sometime this afternoon, then class this evening.  If I don't get to it tonight, I will try to do so tomorrow afternoon when I return home from work.


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## CanadienneBacon

Been a busy weekend for me thus far.  I'll shoot for updates on Monday.


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## CanadienneBacon

Bumping this from the 3rd page...I don't have searchability anymore, so a bump is necessary!


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## jkason

CanadienneBacon said:


> Bumping this from the 3rd page...I don't have searchability anymore, so a bump is necessary!




I don't know how many threads you follow (and thus how useful or not this might be), but I find the thread subscription (which doesn't require a community supported account) works pretty well for my purposes. The "My Account" link shows you all subscribed threads with new posts, and--so far as I can tell--there's no 'falling off the page' with subscribed threads the way you have to worry about with the standard board list.


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## CanadienneBacon

A lot of folks like the subscribe feature, but I'm not one of 'em.  I don't care for an inbox more cluttered than necessary.


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## Walking Dad

It's a good sign for having an active IC and minimal OOC posting for an online RPG.


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## CanadienneBacon

250 XP for roleplay.  I'll update the RG thread accordingly, but each of you should also update your character sheets.  I have each of you at 984 XP.  So close.


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## Shayuri

Gasp

*sings and dances for 16 exp*


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## Ambrus

Taran kills a wayward squirrel (it looked shifty) and consequently goes up a level.


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## jkason

Woot! Hooray XP!


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## CanadienneBacon

Moved everyone to the Rusty Dragon.  If you guys are feeling as if you've done enough talking for now, please feel free to gloss over the details of the coin and your morning's investigation while you speak with Shalelu.  If there are specific questions for Shalelu, however, please make sure you get them in.


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:


> Taran kills a wayward squirrel (it looked shifty) and consequently goes up a level.



A man after my own heart.  Wretched shifty squirrels.


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## Ambrus

Just wondering where our dear GM has wandered off to. I fear pixies may be involved.


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## Shayuri

Check out the "Sick" thread in this forum.


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## Ambrus

Ah. You see, I check the threads I'm involved in and rarely go searching the forums for news/update posts so I'm usually left scratching my head wondering what's going on.

Thanks for the heads up Shayuri.


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## Ambrus

I hope CB is doing alright. Not hearing anything at all is worrisome.


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## Walking Dad

My Advanced-Absence-Warning:

I will have no online access between Christmas and 6th January.


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## mfloyd3

Sorry to pester, but can someone post a status update for this game?  If there's been information posted in another thread I missed it.


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## Ambrus

mfloyd3 said:


> Sorry to pester, but can someone post a status update for this game?  If there's been information posted in another thread I missed it.



You did indeed miss CB's post in another thread. She announced that she'd be taking some time off from the boards and that we should look for her in early February.


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## mfloyd3

Whoops, thanks for the link.  CB, feel better soon!


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## Walking Dad

I'm too. Best wishes for CB.


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## CanadienneBacon

Hey, all.  Some of you may remember that I started law school in 2011.  I've graduated and passed the bar exam, and now have time on my hands.  I thought I'd pick up PbP, and remembered this game.  Is there any interest in resuming this one, or should we declare it dead?


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## Shayuri

This one...goodness. It was basically Rise of the Runelords, wasn't it? Sandpoint and all?


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## Ambrus

Hi CanadienneBacon! Wow. What a blast from the past! Congrats on passing your bar exam!

I couldn't even remember which adventure path or character this was for without flipping through the back pages to check. Seems I was playing… a labrador retriever? Lol.


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## CanadienneBacon

Howzit, Ambrus and Shayuri?  Nice to see you both again.  I'll give this thread another few days before making a decision whether to resume play or put it to bed permanently.  Maybe some of the other players will amble along and post.  With 53 pages in our OOC alone, it might be better to nix it altogether and start anew or simply pick a different AP to run.  

I definitely want to run _something_ though.


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## jkason

Wow. Massive flashback. 

I still never managed to get past the first couple encounters in Rise of the Runelords, though I'll admit I've entirely lost the plot in terms of the character I was playing here (not to mention Pathfinder having added a fair few options since then). It looks like I had a rogue of some stripe.


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## CanadienneBacon

jkason said:


> Wow. Massive flashback.




I know, right.

This is what the RG tells me we had for players and their characters:  

 Ambrus......................Taran, male Bronze Dragon 1
 Shayuri......................Talashia, female Varisian Sorceror 1
 mfloyd3......................Elyra Colereus, female Varisian Ranger 1
 Merlin's Shadow...........Grokk, male Half-Orc Cleric 1
 jkason........................Tac Abor, male Varisian Rogue 1
 Walking Dad................Sivan, male Varisian Paladin 1


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## CanadienneBacon

Soooo.  With that in mind...

 [MENTION=23867]mfloyd3[/MENTION]
 [MENTION=80710]Merlin's Shadow[/MENTION]
 [MENTION=59043]Walking Dad[/MENTION]


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## mfloyd3

*Hearing his name invoked, he claws his way from the rain-soaked earth to stand before the adventurers.*

"I...Live..."

Hey, CB, congrats on passing the Bar!

I'm going to give you a tentative yes for re-starting the game.  I'm only hesitating because my schedule looks to be filling up a bit, but I'll know for sure in the next few weeks and it will probably be OK.  I guess I have a slight preference for starting something new, but will happily jump into the existing plotline as well.


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## Guest 11456

While not from the original group if CB is running Pathfinder I would like in, if possible.


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## CanadienneBacon

I'm still not sure what I want to do with this game. 

I'm waiting to see whether either the d20 Modern or the 5e basic game I created last week will make before I commit to picking back up with Burnt Offerings.  I'll know more on Dec 18th, the deadline for characyer submissions for the d20 Modern game.  Maybe, if you haven't already, subscribe to this thread?


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## Shayuri

I was enjoying the game, and my character, quite a bit. If this restarts I'd be glad to take part.


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## CanadienneBacon

I'm glad you said.  If we re-start Burnt Offerings, I intend to permit players to either keep their existing PC or create a new one, their choice.  As for whether we would re-start entirely or resume our IC where we left off, well...jury's still out on that.


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## jkason

I remember liking Tac and his tendency toward fiddling with things, though I (like to) think I know a bit more about building a character now. If you decide to go with this, I'd probably be in for fiddling with him a touch (not sure if I'd keep him rogue (with maybe an archetype) or maybe try a different class. I've had a lot of trouble making actual rogues effective in any kind of combat scenario. 

I'll be out of the country with zero internet access from the 19th of this month until the 29th, so figured I should pipe in now since it sounds like you'll decide on reviving or not while I'm gone.


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## Ambrus

Since this campaign ended, I've since played through the entirety of Rise of the Runelords in a tabletop game. For that reason, if we were to play, I'd likely prefer some other Adventure Path.


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## CanadienneBacon

I've moved to actively mulling over whether to reactivate either Burnt Offerings or one of my other games.  Other current candidates include City of the Spider Queen (with an all underdark party) and Pleasure Palace of the B'thuvian Demon (with an all female party).  Not sure.  To be honest, I am kind of craving something a little more vanilla, so a Pathfinder AP would fit the bit nicely.  The trouble is, which AP?  I don't foresee myself making a .pdf purchase anytime in the near future, so that limits my selection to whatever AP I can suss out of my back issues of Dungeon.  I am reasonably confident I have Shackled City, and I might also have Age of Worms.  I also have the first installment of War of the Burning Sky.

Thoughts?


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## Shayuri

Any of those would be fine with me. Talashia is a character who is easily adapted into any campaign and setting, I've found. And I haven't played through any of those yet, so no spoils here.


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## jkason

I've not played any of those. I recall hearing that Age of Worms was a real shredder for non-optimized PCs. Since I'm not great at minmaxing, if that's true, I'd probably rather avoid that, but I'm game either way.


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## mfloyd3

I haven't played any of those adventure paths, so I'd be up for any of them.


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## Guest 11456

While not quite the same, I am looking for interest in the newest Paizo AP here.


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