# Which is your favorite on-screen Star Trek captain?



## Goodsport (Jan 1, 2005)

Though some of these choices were only officially captain of their listed starship for a short while, they nevertheless _did_ hold that position (yes, on-screen).

So, which one is your favorite... and why? 


-G


----------



## Goodsport (Jan 1, 2005)

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the name of the captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-J, so that's why his/her name wasn't included in the poll. 


-G


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 1, 2005)

Pff! Picard! But of course!


----------



## Lord Pendragon (Jan 1, 2005)

I voted Pickard, but only because I couldn't vote twice.  Ben Sisko is right up there.

Pickard is the diplomat/intellectual captain.  The thinking man's captain.  I liked the dignity he brought to the role.  He was commanding without always throwing his status in your face (as Janeway was wont to do.)  He had a lot of character, and the writers managed to give him a lot of flavor over the years, a lot of depth.  Many of the Pickard-oriented episodes were the most character-driven.

Ben Sisko has always struck me as James T. Kirk as portrayed by a good actor.  He has a very stylized way of speaking, but it works.  He's more a man of action than Pickard, but not without strategic excellence.  And the spiritual edge they gave him through the Emissary story arc added a lot to his dramatic potential, as a man of science trapped in the role of a spiritual leader.


----------



## Goodsport (Jan 1, 2005)

There are three other on-screen captains that I had forgotten to mention:



Clark Terrell (U.S.S. Reliant NCC-1846)


Captain Styles (U.S.S. Excelsior NX-2000) - I couldn't find his first name anywhere


Hikaru Sulu (U.S.S. Excelsior NCC-2000)

Sorry about the omissions. 


-G


----------



## Greylock (Jan 1, 2005)

Voted Kirk.

Call me old-fashioned, but I still prefer the old Shat...


----------



## Elf Witch (Jan 1, 2005)

I voted for Janeway because I liked the way she played a gusty female leader without having to give up her femininity. I felt that she really cared about her crew and was willing to go through hell to get them home.

My second favorite has to be Sisko and the tightrope he always walked between federation law and logic and Bajoran mystism.

And I will always have a soft spot for the first James T Kirk  and his own special brand of cowboy diplomacy. If he was thrown to the Borg he wouldn't be running to the confrence room every few minutes to talk.


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 1, 2005)

Elf Witch said:
			
		

> I voted for Janeway because I liked the way she played a gusty female leader without having to give up her femininity. I felt that she really cared about her crew and was willing to go through hell to get them home.




Sorta reminds me of _Trekkies_, what you said.


----------



## Wombat (Jan 1, 2005)

For me, Ben Sisko is #1, followed closely by James T.

Sisko was, as far as I could see, the true ideal captain.  He was a diplomat, a combat officer, an administrator, and also tried to balance his family life and his unexpected religious position.  He did all this with a combination of aplomb, humour, dignity, grace, and tenacity that none of the others quite matched.

But Kirk was just fun, exciting, and he always got the alien babes


----------



## Khayman (Jan 1, 2005)

Sulu, because he Mastered that damn vessel.


----------



## Nightfall (Jan 1, 2005)

Picard, no question.

The others varied with Sisko followed by Kirk being tied for second. But without a doubt, the best at being an everyman captain and yet so grand without being haughty, goes to Picard. 

The man could do no wrong in my eyes. He was always more human but never superhuman. He was/is my ideal for a captain.

Sisko though made the Space Station commander thing, even more than the B5 guys.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 1, 2005)

Goodsport said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, I couldn't find the name of the captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-J, so that's why his/her name wasn't included in the poll.



The captain is an Arborean, an asexual plant-like species, kinda like a mini-Ent.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 1, 2005)

Khayman said:
			
		

> Sulu, because he Mastered that damn vessel.



Captain Hikaru Sulu, commander of _USS Excelsior_ NCC-2000. What can I say? Gotta give props to Asian icons.


----------



## Asmo (Jan 1, 2005)

Another vote for Janeway!


Asmo


----------



## Psychic Warrior (Jan 1, 2005)

Elf Witch said:
			
		

> I voted for Janeway because I liked the way she played a gusty female leader without having to give up her femininity. I felt that she really cared about her crew and was willing to go through hell to get them home.




Except when it violated the Prime Directive (or some much lesser and more ambivilant directive since she later does violate it in ways even Kirk didn't dream up).

I would have voted Janeway as the worst captain simply because her wishy-washy attitudes towards what they can and can't do under her interpretation of Federation law really got under my skin.  Even sticking the Borg in the show couldn't save it for me (very similar to what the first 2 seasons of Enterprise became).

James Kirk is still my favourite (exaggerations of his acting style notwithstanding) with Jean-Luc Picard a close second.  

I am surprised as how many votes Ben Sisko has garnered.  I never watched much Deep Space 9 though.


----------



## Andre (Jan 1, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> I am surprised as how many votes Ben Sisko has garnered.  I never watched much Deep Space 9 though.




Maybe that's why you're surprised. 

Seriously, Deep Space Nine was very well written, had a great ensemble cast, and excellent story arcs that covered whole seasons. Sisko was Picard with the gloves off. The episode where he and Garak tricked the Romulans into the war with the Dominion was unbelievable.

Picard was great, but I have to go with Sisko.


----------



## Sarigar (Jan 1, 2005)

Picard is by far the better actor, character, and captain.  Even so, Kirk edges him out because, well, he's Kirk.


----------



## haiiro (Jan 1, 2005)

Picard! So sexy, so well-reasoned, such a good man -- he's dreamy.


----------



## Mark (Jan 1, 2005)

No "Geordi LaForge, Captain of the USS Challenger"?


----------



## Psychic Warrior (Jan 1, 2005)

Mark said:
			
		

> No "Geordi LaForge, Captain of the USS Challenger"?




Wasn't that from the future vision in "All good Things..."?  If it was I thought they had changed the future by their knowledge of it and not letting certain things happen (like Worf & Deanna getting hitched).


----------



## Mark (Jan 1, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> Wasn't that from the future vision in "All good Things..."?  If it was I thought they had changed the future by their knowledge of it and not letting certain things happen (like Worf & Deanna getting hitched).




Well, there's always the debate that all possible future do, indeed, actually exist...but setting that aside, it was an on-screen appearance as a capatin of his own ship.  I suppose Beverly Crusher-Picard should also be mentioned as being in command of the Medical Ship USS Pasteur.  Data, too, had his time in "the Big Chair" as did Worf, and although both were temporary commands in SF, Worf had any number of Klingon ships he commanded, IIRC.


----------



## s/LaSH (Jan 1, 2005)

I'm fondest of Sisko. I came to this realisation when he poisoned a planet settled by humans/bajorans to resolve a conflict with Cardassian settlers. And there's all that other stuff too, that was just the point where I realised how cool he was.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 1, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> Wasn't that from the future vision in "All good Things..."?  If it was I thought they had changed the future by their knowledge of it and not letting certain things happen (like Worf & Deanna getting hitched).



Nope, it's one of the time-traveling _VOYAGER_ episodes. Survivors Chakotay and Kim went back into the Delta Quad where the ship was buried in ice and everyone perish, except the EMH they reactivated. They thought that by accessing Seven's neural implant they can send a message back in time to avoid their fate. Basically, it was a silly plot device.

I can only like Janeway during the first three seasons of _VOYAGER,_ when they were untainted by Braga's leadership as the show's producer.

I like Picard because he can quote Shakespeare against an entity that could turn him into a targ with a snap of his finger.

I like Sisko because he can punch said entity that could turn him into a targ with a snap of his finger.

I like Kirk because he can chase the skirts in his ship.

But I prefer Sulu because he represents Asian bloods. Not too many Asian characters of such significance, unless he's playing a WWII, Korean War, or Vietnam War adversary.


----------



## Mercule (Jan 1, 2005)

Kirk.  Sisko and Sulu are both up there, though.  I like Picard, but he's not my favorite.  Loathed Janeway.

So, when did April get screen time?  I've only even seen him referrenced in print.


----------



## Goodsport (Jan 2, 2005)

Mercule said:
			
		

> So, when did April get screen time?  I've only even seen him referrenced in print.




April and his wife were featured in the final episode of the two-season animated series.

Most consider the animated series (which aired a few years after the original series ended) as franchise canon.  As a matter of fact, many have said that while the original series' three seasons covered the Enterprise's first three years of its five-year mission, the animated series covered the other two years.


-G


----------



## Mercule (Jan 2, 2005)

Goodsport said:
			
		

> Most consider the animated series (which aired a few years after the original series ended) as franchise canon. As a matter of fact, many have said that while the original series' three seasons covered the Enterprise's first three years of its five-year mission, the animated series covered the other two years.



Interesting.  I've not seen much of the animated series.  I was given the impression that it wasn't particularly good.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jan 2, 2005)

In my experience, most do *not* consider TAS as canon. Very few do. 

 And it's not considered canon by TPTB.


----------



## Goodsport (Jan 2, 2005)

Mercule said:
			
		

> Interesting.  I've not seen much of the animated series.  I was given the impression that it wasn't particularly good.




It was okay, or at least as okay as an early-1970's Filmation cartoon could be. 


-G


----------



## Goodsport (Jan 2, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> In my experience, most do *not* consider TAS as canon. Very few do.
> 
> And it's not considered canon by TPTB.




TAS is listed on the official Star Trek website, and the characters, events, et al from it that are unique to TAS are included in the official website's database just as those from the other TV shows and movies are.


-G


----------



## Goodsport (Jan 2, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> In my experience, most do *not* consider TAS as canon. Very few do.
> 
> And it's not considered canon by TPTB.





			
				Goodsport said:
			
		

> TAS is listed on the official Star Trek website, and the characters, events, et al from it that are unique to TAS are included in the official website's database just as those from the other TV shows and movies are.
> 
> 
> -G




Hmm... upon further investigation, it seem that we're _both_ somewhat right.

According to this page from the official site:




> Although the Animated Adventures had an undeniable Star Trek-ness to them, they are not considered part of the Star Trek "canon," or accepted Trek storyline. Almost without exception, it is the live-action series and movies that are considered canon. However, some Star Trek "facts" are actually borrowed from the animated show, i.e. the name of the original U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 captain, Robert April; the surname for Spock's mother, Amanda "Grayson"; etc. The Animated Adventures certainly have their charm and are remembered fondly by Star Trek aficionados.




So while the cartoon series as a whole isn't necessarily considered canon, certain points from it (such as the aforementioned Robert April and Spock's mother's surname) _have_ become canon (and thus their inclusion in the official database). 


-G


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Jan 2, 2005)

Like Kzinti in the Trek universe?  Canon or non-canon?

Best acted -- Picard.

Best captain -- gotta go with Kirk (props to Sulu).


----------



## Elf Witch (Jan 2, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Sorta reminds me of _Trekkies_, what you said.





Well, since I have proudly wore the title of Trekkie since I was a kid I will choose to ignore the jab and take it as a compliment.

It was the way Janeway was written. I always got the impression that Picard would sacrifice his crew for the greater good of the federation and I know Sisko was willing to do it. 

When Janeway trapped her crew in the delta quadrant following federation and the prime directive it alwayse seemed that she made it her personal mission her goal to get the crew home. And as time goes on she you see her do just that bend farther and farther from federation standards.

It is why she is my favorite I cannot see Picard being able to do some of the things she did like the treaty with the borg. Though I can see Kirk doing some of it.


----------



## Orius (Jan 2, 2005)

I'd have to say Sisko.  Sisko gets my vote because he displayed a lot of well-rounded command talent — he's run a space station, served as a Federation diplomat mainly to the Bajorans, but also to several other races, done some deep space exploration, handled a number of first contact missions, and commanded fleets of starships in wartime.  Few other captains have shown such a range of abilities and pulled them off well.

In close second comes Kirk.  Swinger, cowboy diplomat, overacted, and a hell of a lot of fun to watch on screen, he's simply incomparable.  But Sisko wins because he's more dependable than Kirk; the Starfleet brass obviously weren't going nuts with him breaking the Prime Directive every other episode like Kirk was wont to do.  

Picard comes in third.  He really reflects a lot of Roddenberry's humanist ideals, but he comes off as somewhat of a bore sometimes.  And he wasn't all that likeable in some of the earlier TNG episodes.  Picard's good as an explorer or a diplomat, but if you need conflict resolution, Sisko or Kirk are better.

I want to like Archer, but bad writing and storylines on Enterprise have really weakened his appeal.  I think if the show pulls off some better episodes, this might change, for example if he becomes the important figure in founding the Federation that it seems he's being set up as.

Janeway was a terrible captain.  Far too erratic and independant, she really doesn't come off as a good enough team player to be able to make it to captain in the first place.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 2, 2005)

Mercule said:
			
		

> So, when did April get screen time?  I've only even seen him referrenced in print.



Other than the non-canon _Star Trek: The Animated Series,_ the late Gene Roddenberry posed as Captain April in a promotional picture.

_ENTERPRISE_ could feature him or his parents in an episode, or give Gene's son, Eugene, a cameo as April's father.


----------



## diaglo (Jan 2, 2005)

James Tiberius Kirk... there is no other Star Trek worth watching.


----------



## Mark (Jan 2, 2005)

There's also Capt. Morgan Bateson of the USS Bozeman (NCC-1941) as portrayed by Kelsey Grammer in "TNG - Cause and Effect"


----------



## jonesy (Jan 2, 2005)

Sisko beats Kirk in a fistfight, Spock in a logic debate, Picard in brainpower, Worf in a staring match and Sulu in cool.


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 2, 2005)

Elf Witch said:
			
		

> Well, since I have proudly wore the title of Trekkie since I was a kid I will choose to ignore the jab and take it as a compliment.




I mean the documentary, "Trekkies".


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 2, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> I mean the documentary, "Trekkies".



Is that out on DVD? Can't seem to find it.

Still rooting for Sulu. Banzai!


----------



## Elf Witch (Jan 3, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> I mean the documentary, "Trekkies".




Oh I see. I thought it was that tired old debate of trekkie VS trekker. Which I always thought was just plain dumb.


----------



## Starman (Jan 3, 2005)

jonesy said:
			
		

> Sisko beats Kirk in a fistfight, Spock in a logic debate, Picard in brainpower, Worf in a staring match and Sulu in cool.




I'm sure he does...when he dreams at night.

There can be no doubt that Kirk is the greatest starship captain of all time. No other captain has his combination of courage, tactical genius, leadership, fighting ability, and _panache_. I cannot think of any mission where I would want someone other than Kirk in charge, especially with his Enterprise crew behind him. They earned their legend status. 

Starman


----------



## mhacdebhandia (Jan 3, 2005)

I voted Picard, because he's far cooler than Kirk, but Sisko was very close behind. None of the other captains are worthy of consideration - though if _Enterprise_ recovers, Archer could be in the running for fourth. Especially if he murders Trip.

Picking Sulu because he's Asian is kinda silly, I think. He didn't *do* anything significant onscreen, and lauding him solely because of his race diminishes any genuine accomplishments he might have. It's like praising Colin Powell for being the first black SecState, instead of judging him by what he actually may or may not have *accomplished*.


----------



## Laurel (Jan 3, 2005)

Voted for Picard.... because he's Picard. He showed a true balance of having power, but not abusing it. He listened to his crew, but made up his own mind from all the choices available. He got close to his crew and understood them, but remained above them as their captain.<O</O

Sisko was/is a close second, but not for the same reasons. Almost the opposite. He got very involved with his crew members, and often blurred the differences of Captain and Father. But it was these choices and these actions that made him fun to watch and cool to see grow into the command position.<O</O

For female captains, honestly Janeway's not that bad. Looking at the list though Garrett seemed like a better captain, but for the short span and not a major player during that time can't put her above Janeway.

Janeway almost pushed something's too hard- example- must be seperate from her crew.  In some cases it just made her look cold, and in others it just cased strange tension with her command group.  I can't and couldn't pick her since she also seemed to change over the seasons of the show, but then towards the end just went back to being starfleet pushy, rush in, make all the decisions Janeway.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 4, 2005)

mhacdebhandia said:
			
		

> Picking Sulu because he's Asian is kinda silly, I think. He didn't *do* anything significant onscreen, and lauding him solely because of his race diminishes any genuine accomplishments he might have. It's like praising Colin Powell for being the first black SecState, instead of judging him by what he actually may or may not have *accomplished*.



Without Sulu's leadership, _Excelsior_ would have been destroyed in the shockwave of Praxis's explosion. That and aiding Kirk against a ship that can fire while cloaked, thus saving the peace between Federation and Klingon Empire.

I'm sure that African-Americans and Nationals would praise Sisko for being their first "star" captain. I mean, up until _DS9,_ they always cast Caucasian as the leading "star" captain of the _Trek_ series.


----------



## The Human Target (Jan 4, 2005)

This is the geekiest thread ever ..... and its Sisko.


----------



## michaelmorris69 (Jan 4, 2005)

<= thats jean luc. The sunglasses mean hes cool.


----------



## TheAuldGrump (Jan 4, 2005)

Picard.

Both Picard and Sisko were believable career officers, while Kirk... was a Kennedy. He should have been given a light cruiser or a destroyer for his command, way too much of a hotdog for a ship of the line.

The Auld Grump, who realizes that trying to apply Naval standards to Star Trek is silly, but can't help it...


----------



## johnsemlak (Jan 4, 2005)

Data has at least one brief role as Captain in Redemption.

My vote is Picard all the way.


----------



## Lord Pendragon (Jan 4, 2005)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> Data has at least one brief role as Captain in Redemption.



There's an episode of TNG where the Federation is blocking off a planet from the Romulans using Tackyon particle beams trasmitted between ships in a fleet, something like a net spread out to detect cloaked Warbirds.  I believe several of the Enterprise senior staff, including Data, are given temporary command of ships in the fleet for the duration of the operation.


----------



## Felix (Jan 4, 2005)

Kirk.

Hot alien babes.
Fistfights with lizardmen.
Witty reparte.
"Prime Directive? Pfah!"
Hates klingons.
Better crew under him.
"Where no man has gone before."
The Wrath of Khan
The Voyage Home
The Undiscovered Country

And only the coolest captain could have an enemy that said this to him:
From hell's heart I stab at thee... I spit my dying breath at thee.


----------



## Welverin (Jan 4, 2005)

Mark said:
			
		

> Well, there's always the debate that all possible future do, indeed, actually exist...but setting that aside, it was an on-screen appearance as a capatin of his own ship.  I suppose Beverly Crusher-Picard should also be mentioned as being in command of the Medical Ship USS Pasteur.  Data, too, had his time in "the Big Chair" as did Worf, and although both were temporary commands in SF, Worf had any number of Klingon ships he commanded, IIRC.




Better yet, Worf ended up as the commander of the _Defiant_, which is much better justification for including him on the list, and I'm sure he'd get more votes than a lot of the people already listed (still wouldn't top Sisko, though).



			
				Elf Witch said:
			
		

> It was the way Janeway was written. I always got the impression that Picard would sacrifice his crew for the greater good of the federation and I know Sisko was willing to do it.




Well that’s exactly what they should be doing; they serve the federation (and thus the people in it). So does they’re crew. They wouldn’t be very good commanders if they let a planet get blown up so they could save their crew. 

Makes them better commanders in my book.



> Oh I see. I thought it was that tired old debate of trekkie VS trekker. Which I always thought was just plain dumb.




Yes, but they're fanboys, what else would you expect?


----------



## Hand of Evil (Jan 4, 2005)

James T. Kirk
less talk more action - nuff said, Sisko comes close here
sci-fi plots not political plots - different times, maybe but Sci-Fi was still young
villians were VILLIANS - Klingons were bad, Khan had a plan and hate, the Romlans were sneaky
Better ship-to-ship action - while special effects improved, space combat has been lackluster to me.​


----------



## Arnwyn (Jan 4, 2005)

Other: Captain Sulu (U.S.S. Excelsior, NCC-2000).

Since that's not in the poll: Kirk, all the way.


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 5, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Is that out on DVD? Can't seem to find it.




Yeah, it is. I bought a copy about 2-3 months ago. The movie was made in '96. I'm also looking for _Trekkies 2_.



			
				Elf Witch said:
			
		

> Oh I see. I thought it was that tired old debate of trekkie VS trekker. Which I always thought was just plain dumb.




Yeah, that's covered near the end in _Trekkies_. The answers are quite interesting, some laughable. I actually like Kate Mulgrew's answer.




			
				johnsemlak said:
			
		

> Data has at least one brief role as Captain in Redemption.




And on the subject of _Trekkies_, they asked this EXACT question. The most answers were between Kirk and Picard. One little girl was asked by her mom (in TNG [I believe] blue uniform) who her favourite captain was. She said, "Data."

Of course, the winner of their poll was Picard. They also cover favourite Non-Federation "captain" (loose term), as well as the Trekkies vs. Trekkers debate (I'm gonna mention the word "Debacle" to anyone who's ever seen it), and the "Spiner Femme" getting 3rd really made me laugh.


----------



## Lord Pendragon (Jan 5, 2005)

Any survey where Janeway beats out Sisko is obviously a sham.


----------



## Turlogh (Jan 5, 2005)

Kirk all the way.
Didn't ever really see Picard as a captian but more as middle managment- oh a problem lets go to the boardroom.
DS9 was regularly dull so Sisko never really impressed me much.
Didn't like Janeway at all.

The other captians were never really shown enough to make a good call on them


----------



## qstor (Jan 5, 2005)

I voted for Kirk. I guess there's a lot of TNG fans on the boards cause Picard is winning. I'd go for Sisko 2nd, then janeway. Jellico is tough. He'd be 4th. What about Sulu? 


Mike


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 5, 2005)

qstor said:
			
		

> I voted for Kirk. I guess there's a lot of TNG fans on the boards cause Picard is winning. I'd go for Sisko 2nd, then janeway. Jellico is tough. He'd be 4th. What about Sulu?
> 
> 
> Mike



I voted Picard since I like the characters views and the actor better, but Sisko is definitely my close second, and overall I prefer DS9 above TNG...


----------



## Laurel (Jan 5, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> Wasn't that from the future vision in "All good Things..."? If it was I thought they had changed the future by their knowledge of it and not letting certain things happen (like Worf & Deanna getting hitched).



 If we could have then Captain Picard as in Beverly Picard would have changed my list around   Really wanted to see more of her in captain mode.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 5, 2005)

arnwyn said:
			
		

> Other: Captain Sulu (U.S.S. Excelsior, NCC-2000).
> 
> Since that's not in the poll: Kirk, all the way.



You know who else is not on the poll?

General Martok
Kang
Kor, the Dahar Master

 :\


----------



## mhacdebhandia (Jan 6, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Without Sulu's leadership, _Excelsior_ would have been destroyed in the shockwave of Praxis's explosion. That and aiding Kirk against a ship that can fire while cloaked, thus saving the peace between Federation and Klingon Empire.



Perhaps, but to pick him as the *best* captain for that is, I'm sorry, just ridiculous.


> I'm sure that African-Americans and Nationals would praise Sisko for being their first "star" captain. I mean, up until _DS9,_ they always cast Caucasian as the leading "star" captain of the _Trek_ series.



That would be ridiculous and frankly demeaning, too. You're the best because of who you are and what you do, not what kind of skin you live in. If Sisko's the best captain it has nothing to do with his being Afro-American (ha, I watched _Malcolm X_ recently, can you tell?).

And no, Picard ain't the best because he's white.  Though maybe because he's naturally bald.


----------



## ddvmor (Jan 6, 2005)

Of course all of the arguments put forward here about who's the best captain and so forth are moot, since the question asks who your 'favourite' captain is!  And you don't have to have any reason other than - I liked Kirk beacause he could pull off bell-bottoms or Picard beacause of his shiny, shiny nonce.

I liked Sisko's beard.  That's why I'm voting for him!


----------



## evildmguy (Jan 6, 2005)

I voted for Archer.  While there were some problems with what they did with the series so far, which are irrelevant to this discussion, I think Archer had to make the toughest decisions because he had to make them first.  The others get to look back at him, so to speak, and see what he did as a captain in forming their own opinions.  

Granted it could be argued a lot about the writing but I also think they put Archer in some of the worse Kobiyashi Maru situations, where his choices weren't very good at all.  I think that's why I liked the homecoming episode of this season, where he is now a bitter, angry man at what happened and what he did.  

I probably also voted for him because overall, I have liked Enterprise for what it is, and didn't know enough of TOS to know when they violated canon.    I didn't think he would get many votes.  

Second is tough between Sisko and Picard.  I didn't like DS9 after its second season but after watching it all on DVD, it really amazed and impressed me.  (I am only sorry the new Dax didn't get more time to develop.)  They were both good characters that I really liked.  Very different in their own styles but effective at what they were supposed to be doing.  I like that more and more.  

I never liked Voyager and after watching it for a season and a half I gave up.  So, Janeway is low on my list.  

I haven't seen all of TOS although it is tempting to get them on DVD and watch them.  I am not a big fan of Shatner's acting style so that unfortunately biases me.  Having said that, as I get older, I think I better appreciate what the time of Kirk was like, gleened from Enterprise and the various RPGs, and I think I can appreciate him more now.  

Just wanted to add my own coppers here.  

Have a good one!  Take care!

edg


----------



## Arnwyn (Jan 6, 2005)

mhacdebhandia said:
			
		

> Perhaps, but to pick him as the *best* captain for that is, I'm sorry, just ridiculous.



What's ridiculous is people not properly reading the poll question.


----------



## The_Universe (Jan 6, 2005)

I voted Kirk, but Picard almost won out.  

I think that TNG was a better show overall...but the original cast (and thus the original captain) had a truly original kind of chemistry and personality that the TNG cast does an excellent job of emulating, and even expanding upon.  It's far better than any of the other casts (even DS9, where the real chemistry was just between Garak, Quark, and Odo).  

Kirk is the original, and the captain against which all others will be compared.  He's my favorite, but if he were off the list, it would be Jean Luc Picard all the way.


----------



## Orius (Jan 6, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> You know who else is not on the poll?
> 
> General Martok
> Kang
> ...




I thought it was pretty evident we were talking about Federation captains.

A coolest Klingon poll would be interesting though.  Those three would be front runners along with Worf.


----------



## Wombat (Jan 6, 2005)

One of the things I am finding most interesting with this poll is the number of people who say X (whichever) is their favourite captain, but that Sisko is their #2 choice.

Hmm, if we counted each of those as a quarter vote, I think the commander of DS-9 would be in the lead  

This is not a slam on the other captains (all of them are cool), but I just think Ben Sisko is brimming over with suave and style.

Besides, I just loved him with the shaved head and goatee


----------



## Felix (Jan 6, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> A coolest Klingon poll would be interesting though.



I would vote for the first Kingon who wore a now-fashionable CCCP Russian hockey jersey.

Thick with irony that'd be.


----------



## Wolf72 (Jan 7, 2005)

Kirk, then Picard, then Archer ... although 2 and 3 are interchangeable


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 7, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> I thought it was pretty evident we were talking about Federation captains.



The question asked for _Star Trek_ captains, not Starfleet.   

I'm sure you pinkskins would like to vote for Shran of the Andorian Imperial Command.

[image placeholder: Andorian smiley]


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 7, 2005)

Wombat said:
			
		

> Besides, I just loved him with the shaved head and goatee



I must admit, I prefer the episodes with him and his shaved head and goatee, too.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 7, 2005)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> I must admit, I prefer the episodes with him and his shaved head and goatee, too.



Yeah, he reminded me of that Hawk character from _Spenser for Hire_ starring the late Robert Urich.


----------



## Chun-tzu (Jan 7, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Yeah, he reminded me of that Hawk character from _Spenser for Hire_ starring the late Robert Urich.




He reminded me of that Hawk character from Buck Rogers.   
(BTW, I get the in-joke, Ranger REG. Good one!)


----------



## ivocaliban (Jan 7, 2005)

I went with Kirk. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather serve under Picard, but I'd rather _be_ Kirk.   

My first impulse was to say Sulu, but he's not an option.


----------



## hero4hire (Jan 7, 2005)

I *almost* like Picard and Kirk equally, but for different reasons. Kirk edges out Picard due to him being the original Captain.

I also loved it when Picard had to get Kirk to *ahem* throw his weight around.


----------



## Rackhir (Jan 7, 2005)

I get the feeling that a lot of this comes down to 

"Who was the first Trek Captain you watched a lot of, thus becoming a major influence".

To someone who grew up with Kirk and TOS, Picard and everyone else are likely to just be pale shadows.

To someone who grew up with Picardd and TNG, Kirk's always going to be an irresponsible cowboy played by someone who overacts shamefully. 

etc....

Then there's the "Capain Y" is the first captain LIKE ME! This means a lot to some people. I have a friend who treasures Storm from the X-Men because she was the first great black superhero he ever encountered and having someone like that meant alot to him, because he didn't see a lot of superheroes who "were like him".


----------



## Wombat (Jan 7, 2005)

Sadly, this thought doesn't work for me.

I watched TOS in original release, and then later in re-runs.
Then I saw TNG
Then I saw DS9
And I briefly flirted with VOY and ENT, but dropped both of them like hot potatoes.

And yet, and yet, Sisko is my fave, definitely.  Kirk is #2, but fighting hard.  Picard a distant third.  So the order I saw them in doesn't really seem to affect my choices.


----------



## Staffan (Jan 7, 2005)

Wombat said:
			
		

> Besides, I just loved him with the shaved head and goatee



When I first saw him with the goatee look, my first thought was "Hey, he got replaced by his Mirror Universe clone!"


----------



## ivocaliban (Jan 7, 2005)

Well, I picked Kirk because he got the alien honeys! Again, Kirk is the captain I would want to be. He was brash and headstrong and it worked for him most of the time. Being Picard would be pretty dull in my opinion, but if I would much rather serve in his crew. I'd probably live a bit longer.


----------



## Rackhir (Jan 7, 2005)

Wombat said:
			
		

> Sadly, this thought doesn't work for me.
> 
> I watched TOS in original release, and then later in re-runs.
> Then I saw TNG
> ...




I did say "a Lot" not "all". And it's nothing to do with the order, it's more like impression. First one is "your" captain. After that its life experience and tastes kicking in.  Besides it sounds like Kirk isn't that far behind.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 7, 2005)

ivocaliban said:
			
		

> I went with Kirk. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather serve under Picard, but I'd rather _be_ Kirk.



Now that is one strange fantasy: to be Kirk with Picard on top.   

At least he's getting some honey.


----------



## Elf Witch (Jan 8, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> I get the feeling that a lot of this comes down to
> 
> "Who was the first Trek Captain you watched a lot of, thus becoming a major influence".
> 
> ...




There is some truth in this for me. Back when there was only Picard and Kirk I would have picked Kirk hands down. As a matter of fact I remember voting in a TV Guide poll on which Captain would you want defending Earth between the two and I voted for Kirk. Like most of the people who voted.

I grew up on TOS and for the longest time it was my favorite Trek. On the whole I just didn't like TNG. I picked Janeway as my favorite  mainly because she was the first female who got any major screen time and I liked her and the way she command.

If I had to pick my favorite series it would have to be DS9. For its character development and story arcs.


----------



## ivocaliban (Jan 8, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Now that is one strange fantasy: to be Kirk with Picard on top.
> 
> At least he's getting some honey.




Filthy Ranger! What did we tell you about replaying your holodeck fantasies while you're on duty?


----------



## Chun-tzu (Jan 8, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> I get the feeling that a lot of this comes down to
> 
> "Who was the first Trek Captain you watched a lot of, thus becoming a major influence".
> 
> ...




I'd say it's not so much "first Trek captain you watched a lot of" but more of "this was my favorite Trek series."  And the two are probably highly correlated for good reasons.  The captain is a critical character and intimately tied into the series.  When Star Trek shows are being developed, the captain's got to be the first character they create (if not, s/he should be).  I'd bet the poor showings of Janeway and Archer on this poll are related to how both Voyager and Enterprise have floundered at times, losing direction and resulting in inconsistencies.

Although TNG was my first Trek series, I preferred the darker side of Star Trek as seen in DS9.  Major Kira, former terrorist, Quark, crooked thief, and Garak, spy and torturer, would have never made it on the "we're all super-competent do-gooders without any significant fallacies" TOS and TNG.  I picked Sisko, for reasons touched on by others: that he had a really good mix of Kirk's action hero qualities and Picard's stateliness.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jan 8, 2005)

Goodsport said:
			
		

> Hikaru Sulu (U.S.S. Excelsior NCC-2000)[/list]




I voted for Kirk, but I loved Sulu's captaining in Star Trek VI. What with his wanton disregard for direct orders and his overarching loyalty to his friends, it was easy to see see where he had learned his craft

_As the Exclesior is racing to the aid of the Enterprise, which is under attack by a cloaked ship..._

*Sulu*: "Come on!"

*Helmsman*: "If we push the engines any harder she'll fly apart sir!"

*Sulu*: "THEN FLY HER APART!"


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 8, 2005)

ivocaliban said:
			
		

> Filthy Ranger! What did we tell you about replaying your holodeck fantasies while you're on duty?



I believe it is YOUR holodeck fantasies. I'm tempted to either delete it or re-distribute it over the subpace communication network.


----------



## Wolf72 (Jan 8, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> *Sulu*: "Come on!"
> 
> *Helmsman*: "If we push the engines any harder she'll fly apart sir!"
> 
> *Sulu*: "THEN FLY HER APART!"





oooh, great scene!


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jan 12, 2005)

James T. Kirk. He got to kick alotta ass and look cool doing it!  Next, after him, would be Jean-Luc Picard. But Picard was never allowed to do much ass kicking.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 12, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> James T. Kirk. He got to kick alotta ass and look cool doing it!



Must be those grease on his hair. That and he uses a lot of legal pro wrestling maneuvers from the double-hammer punch to leaping off high places.

And you think WWE's Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and The Big Show don't deserve to appear in _VOYAGER_ and in _ENTERPRISE,_ respectively.


----------



## Shag (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm gunna vote Captain Benjamin Maxwell, best quote sniff-sniff "Smells like a bureaucrat's office"

Ha!  Gotta love a guy to diss Picard in his own ready room.  That takes duranium balls 

Plus he was right about the Cardassians.  If the feds had stopped them back then they wouldn't have been able to help the dominion.

Nice work Picard!


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 18, 2005)

Shag said:
			
		

> Nice work Picard!



Picard was ordered to capture Maxwell by order of Starfleet. He did what he was ordered to do. He did his job.


----------



## Acid_crash (Jan 18, 2005)

Benjamin Sisko, but of course.  To me, he's a combo of Kirk attitude and Picards diplomacy who doesn't go chasing after all the alien women he sees.  Great actor.


----------



## Chun-tzu (Jan 18, 2005)

Shag said:
			
		

> I'm gunna vote Captain Benjamin Maxwell, best quote sniff-sniff "Smells like a bureaucrat's office"
> 
> Ha!  Gotta love a guy to diss Picard in his own ready room.  That takes duranium balls
> 
> ...




Starfleet knew what was going on and did NOT want to go to war with Cardassia.  It's quite possible that if they had, their forces and resources would have been depleted (assuming Starfleet won) and the Dominion would have walked all over them.


----------



## Shag (Jan 18, 2005)

Bah they could have smoked the Cardassians, just offer the Klingons half of thier space and they could have pincered them.  

Come on Americans back me up on pre-emptive war!


----------



## MonsterMash (Jan 18, 2005)

I voted Picard - "Make it so", even though I grew up watching the original series and so I've always got a bit of affection for James T. Kirk.


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 18, 2005)

Acid_crash said:
			
		

> Benjamin Sisko, but of course.  To me, he's a combo of Kirk attitude and Picards diplomacy who doesn't go chasing after all the alien women he sees.  Great actor.



Unlike Kirk and Picard, he's a widower and a single parent. The only woman in his life happens to be a convicted smuggler.


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 18, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> The only woman in his life happens to be a convicted smuggler.




Hey, she did her time! Besides, she wasn't a smuggler when they first met.


----------



## Taren Seeker (Jan 19, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Without Sulu's leadership, _Excelsior_ would have been destroyed in the shockwave of Praxis's explosion. That and aiding Kirk against a ship that can fire while cloaked, thus saving the peace between Federation and Klingon Empire.
> 
> I'm sure that African-Americans and Nationals would praise Sisko for being their first "star" captain. I mean, up until _DS9,_ they always cast Caucasian as the leading "star" captain of the _Trek_ series.



 crewman: "She'll fly apart sir!"
Sulu: "Then FLY her apart!!!"

Badass.


----------



## Taren Seeker (Jan 19, 2005)

Heh heh...just saw Teflon Billy's accurate quote. That'll learn me to read the whole thread before I post.

But still...

Badass.


----------



## velm (Jan 22, 2005)

Tough call on who my fav capt is.  I REALLY wanted to like Enterprise, really I did.  I liked Scott Bacula in Quantum Leap, it has a good cast, but it just does not do anything for me.

I think I would have to lean with the Kirk from the movies.  The original series was a good 'cowboy' capt, but I think as you see Kirk in the movies, he has matured quite a bit.  He also had THE very best villian, Khan.  He is the capt then when it hits the fan, you WANT him and his crew.  Sorry, the other capts will have to serve under him.  Diplomacy? bah, got a phaser on stun for you.  

At a VERY close second would be Picard.  I liked Picards style, he was a thinking mans leader.  The two greatest episodes out of all the series had Picard in them.


----------



## Kast (Jan 26, 2005)

Kirk got my vote, with Janeway in second. I prefer the grittier/fly by the seat of your pants style of Star Trek.

Gellico was pretty cool too, but mainly because he was such a foil to Picard and the way he rubbed all the other crew members the wrong way. "Get it done" instead of "Make it so" always brings a smile to my face.


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 27, 2005)

Kast said:
			
		

> Janeway in second [...] "Get it done" instead of "Make it so" always brings a smile to my face.




Or perhaps, "Do it."?


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 27, 2005)

Kast said:
			
		

> Kirk got my vote, with Janeway in second. I prefer the grittier/fly by the seat of your pants style of Star Trek.



Really? Because Janeway doesn't really fly by the seat of MY pants, whether she has that bun in her hair or let it down.  

Besides, she kinda disappointed me in the fifth season "Night" episode, when she spend in her quarters moping while letting her crew operate as they make their way through a region of space that is void of light. Five years in the Delta Quad and she now begins to question her decision in the premiere "Caretaker" episode. Captain Jellico would have relieved her of her command if he was there.


----------



## mojo1701 (Jan 27, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Besides, she kinda disappointed me in the fifth season "Night" episode, when she spend in her quarters moping while letting her crew operate as they make their way through a region of space that is void of light. Five years in the Delta Quad and she now begins to question her decision in the premiere "Caretaker" episode. Captain Jellico would have relieved her of her command if he was there.




I believe that's bi-polar disease.



> _Really? Because Janeway doesn't really fly by the seat of MY pants, whether she has that bun in her hair or let it down.  _




Dude, you REALLY reminded me of the Comic-Book-Guy from the Simpsons in the episode when Homer discovers the internet, and CBG is downloading porn REALLY slow ("Ooh, Captain Janeway... Lace, the FINAL brassiere.").


----------



## Ranger REG (Jan 27, 2005)

Ah. There's a diff. CBG do get turned on by Janeway. I don't.

Besides, my fetish is Horta girl.


----------

