# The Best & Worst of 3rd Edition: SINGLE BEST Product of 3rd edition (poll closed)



## TerraDave (Feb 4, 2008)

The 7th and final poll on the “best and worst” of  3rd edition. 

This is for all the marbles. The SINGLE BEST product of 3rd edition. 

The list includes the top 6 from the WotC poll  and the top 6 from the 3rd party poll. (these thresholds where chosen to given an even 12, ensure a variety of products, and avoid some ties farther down in the 2nd round results). 

So please vote, and feel free to let us know what you think.

*EDIT: * This poll has been contentious enough, and close enough, to demand a sequel. This poll will be closed, and a new one for the finalists opened.

*NEW POLL: * http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=218937


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## mhensley (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't need to see the poll.  Ptolus wins.


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## IamTheTest (Feb 4, 2008)

I voted UA...I love Ptolus, but UA did a lot of really good things for this edition.


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## buzz (Feb 4, 2008)

As much as I wanted to vote for Eberron, _Spell Compendium_ has been the most useful book in that list for my groups, hands down.


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## Psion (Feb 4, 2008)

Of these, I'll say Complete Book of Eldritch Might has probably added the most to my game.

I won't feel bad if Unearthed Arcana wins, though.


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## Felix (Feb 4, 2008)

3rd Edition Player's Handbook.

It represented such a huge shift towards consistency, balance and thoroughness from 2nd edition that every product afterwards became derivative. Other books reached greater heights, but they stood on the strong, strong shoulders of the 3e PHB.


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## Jedi_Solo (Feb 4, 2008)

That'll teach me to not carefully read all of the options...

I should have voted for Unearthed Arcana, but I am not sorry for giving a vote to the PHB2 (so far the only one).

Granted, I am a player most of the time and while I adore the Spell Compendium and the Magic Item Compendium I think the PHB2 has done more than either to open up options for players and make the game the game more fun (for me at least).  I use stuff out of there more then I use stuff out of UA.

Yeah, I think UA is better - but I am happy to represent PHB2 and make sure it gets through with at least one vote.


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## xnosipjpqmhd (Feb 4, 2008)

I voted UA after asking myself, "what kind of book do I hope they release for 4e." Fluff is easy to come by, well-balanced system variants ain't.


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## jdrakeh (Feb 4, 2008)

I voted for UA as, of all the books listed, it provided the most in the way of rules modifications that allowed one to tweak the core system to taste.


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## blargney the second (Feb 4, 2008)

Wow, that was a tough choice.  In the end I had to go with UA because it gave me the tools to make each campaign run the way I wanted it to run.  Game customization for the win!


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## Hstio (Feb 4, 2008)

I thought the breakout was interesting.  Of the top 12 products, 8 were system/rules books, 3 were setting books, and one was a hybrid adventure path/setting.  As I'm more and more leaning toward rules lite systems, I voted for Midnight, my favorite setting of the 3.0/3.5 era.  I enjoyed Ptolus, thought it was the most professionally done book, best layout, etc, but it didn't fire my imagination and change the way I played more then Midnight.  

Hstio


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## Festivus (Feb 4, 2008)

The most useful book I have found at the table as either a player or DM has been the spell compendium.


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## TerraDave (Feb 5, 2008)

With 114 votes, Unearthed Arcana has a pretty strong lead, but this vote is not over yet

Unearthed Arcana (WotC) 	20.18%
Ptolus (MP) 	14.04%
Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC) 	13.16%
Midnight (FF) 	12.28%
Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords (Pz) 	7.89%
Player's Handbook II (WotC) 	7.02%
Draconomicon (WotC) 	6.14%
Spell Compendium (WotC) 	5.26%
Tome of Horrors I (rev.) (NG) 	5.26%
Complete Book of Eldritch Might (MP) 	3.51%
Magic Item Compendium (WotC) 	1.75%
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (XRP) 	1.75%
I want ZAZ, and they ain’t got it. 	1.75%

Unearthed has been strong in all these polls, but some products: PHB II, CBoEM, MIC, that did well earlier not so much now. Good but not great?


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## Kristian Serrano (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm really surprised by Unearthed Arcana's popularity. I've had a hard time justifying the expense of that book because I never use that much of it, only a few pieces here and there if that much.

Additionally, since it's OGL, Jans Carton including most of its rules contents on d20SRD.org under the Variant Rules section, which makes it easily printable and distributable to a gaming group when one of those rules is adopted. Granted, the availability of those rules in as open content would have never come about unless the book was published to begin with.

Still, I remember a lot of people disliking the book simply because it was too much that could never be used in its entirety. I guess the popularity of gestalt rules says otherwise.


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## buzz (Feb 5, 2008)

amaril said:
			
		

> I'm really surprised by Unearthed Arcana's popularity. I've had a hard time justifying the expense of that book because I never use that much of it, only a few pieces here and there if that much.



I concur. It's a cool book, but a lot of the ideas have cascade effects, and some have proven less than stellar. The few things we've used in our games we eventually dropped.

Again, it's a neat book, just not a very useful book, IME.


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## TerraDave (Feb 5, 2008)

I use a couple of things from it, a dm I know well has used some others, I have seen lots of campaigns that use yet some other ones....Given that a lot of people have books on their shelves where they got just 1 feat or 1 spell, it does seeme pretty usefull. 

And I think ENWorlders are the types that would like reading through a crunchy toolkit and seeing all the variants, even if they only use a few. I know I read more of it then just about anyother non-core WotC release. 

But I will agree, definately not my _top_ choice.


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## Evilhalfling (Feb 5, 2008)

This was really a hard choice, 
Draconomicon, PHBII, MIC, see much regular use in my games 

Unearthed Arcana, Midnight, MMS:WE have all been offered as options, some used others not, and included in my conception of my HB world. 

I went with draconomicon, its the only book I did not have to tinker with. Also its just really pretty.  

the PHBII was very close on its heels.


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## Flynn (Feb 5, 2008)

I went with UA, because of the incredible versatility of its components. I have used quite a bit of it in my 3E and D20 games: Action Points, Weapon Groups, Players Roll All The Dice, and so on. It's just the most versatile and useful book of the bunch. (Although Tome of Horrors did come a very close second for me...)

With Regards,
Flynn


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## Greg K (Feb 5, 2008)

amaril said:
			
		

> I'm really surprised by Unearthed Arcana's popularity. I've had a hard time justifying the expense of that book because I never use that much of it, only a few pieces here and there if that much..




I use several things. Off the top of my head are the following:
- Environmental Racial Variants
- Class Variants: I don't use all of them, but I do use many of them. I especially like the Barbarian Hunter, Battle Sorceror, Combat/Martial Rogue, Wilderness Rogue
- Favored Terrain
- Specialist Wizard Variant Abilities
- Weapon Groups
- Action Points
- Death and Dying variant: I still think this is much better than the preview of 4e negative hit points.
- Spontaneous Divine Casting


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## TerraDave (Feb 5, 2008)

Quick Update: with 180 votes Ptolus has overtaken Unearthed Arcana!


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## Kristian Serrano (Feb 5, 2008)

by 2 votes as of this post?


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## Voadam (Feb 5, 2008)

Unearthed Arcana.

Spontaneous divine casters is the single supplement element of all that has made the game better for me.

Running a campaign with a high level cleric PC was now just an issue of being aware of what he could do with his spells instead of what every cleric spell in the game was capable of. Much more manageable and more to my playstyle and flavor tastes.

Having its materials be accessible online at www.d20srd.org has been hugely beneficial to my 3.5 gaming as well.


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## jaerdaph (Feb 6, 2008)

I voted UA, but I see Midnight and Ptolus are tied at 36 each at this point in time.

Nothing like a close race on Super Tuesday.


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## cougent (Feb 6, 2008)

All these posts for UA, and I love that book as well, but had to go with Ptolus.

So where the heck did all this Eberron votes come from?

Ptolus 37
ECS 36
UA 32


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## blargney the second (Feb 6, 2008)

It was tied for me between Eberron and UA.  In the end I went with UA because it can be used regardless of setting, and can be used to heighten any campaign's theme.


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## Harneloot (Feb 6, 2008)

ANYONE who doesn't vote Ptolus has simply never really read the Big Brick nor played a campaign within the city.

Simply brilliant and way, way lots of fun.


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## Goobermunch (Feb 6, 2008)

Harneloot said:
			
		

> ANYONE who doesn't vote Ptolus has simply never really read the Big Brick nor played a campaign within the city.
> 
> Simply brilliant and way, way lots of fun.




That may be, but the ECS is simply .

That's right, I said it, it's just .

--G


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## Kristian Serrano (Feb 6, 2008)

Harneloot said:
			
		

> ANYONE who doesn't vote Ptolus has simply never really read the Big Brick nor played a campaign within the city.
> 
> Simply brilliant and way, way lots of fun.



It's because it's a big brick that I never read it, and its cost has deterred everyone I play with from buying a copy, which means there's been no opportunity to play it.


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## Kristian Serrano (Feb 6, 2008)

Goobermunch said:
			
		

> That may be, but the ECS is simply .
> 
> That's right, I said it, it's just .
> 
> --G



I voted for the ECS for that same reason. 

Actually, I voted for the ECS because it incorporates 3.5 wholesale, including planar and psionic campaigns whereas Ptolus, from what I understand, does not.


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## Angel Tarragon (Feb 6, 2008)

PTOLUS!!!   

Cityscape was good, but Ptolus is better.


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## Baron Opal (Feb 6, 2008)

I voted for Eberron as it helped me facillitate a Dune style game.


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## Aus_Snow (Feb 6, 2008)

Baron Opal said:
			
		

> I voted for Eberron as it helped me facillitate a Dune style game.



Cool. . . how so?

Oh, the poll. None of the above.  I'll sulk instead.


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## pogre (Feb 6, 2008)

The book I have used in every single campaign since it was published - A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (XRP).


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## MarauderX (Feb 6, 2008)

Felix said:
			
		

> 3rd Edition Player's Handbook.
> 
> It represented such a huge shift towards consistency, balance and thoroughness from 2nd edition that every product afterwards became derivative. Other books reached greater heights, but they stood on the strong, strong shoulders of the 3e PHB.




My vote is for this as well, for the same reasons.


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## Psion (Feb 6, 2008)

Harneloot said:
			
		

> ANYONE who doesn't vote Ptolus has simply never really read the Big Brick nor played a campaign within the city.




I own and have read it. I won't dispute its quality either in presentation or content.

But as is, it's far from the most useful book I own. It's the best book on my shelves... where it generally remains.


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## TerraDave (Feb 6, 2008)

With 285 votes...

Ptolus (MP) 	21.40%
Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC) 	17.19%
Unearthed Arcana (WotC) 	12.98%
Player's Handbook II (WotC) 	8.42%
Midnight (FF) 	7.02%
Draconomicon (WotC) 	5.61%
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (XRP) 	5.26%
Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords (Pz) 	5.26%
Magic Item Compendium (WotC) 	4.21%
Spell Compendium (WotC) 	4.21%
Tome of Horrors I (rev.) (NG) 	4.21%
Complete Book of Eldritch Might (MP) 	2.11%

A big change in the rankings! It interesting, in the other polls, after a couple hundred votes, things started to settled down. That doesn't seem to be the case here.


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## Psion (Feb 6, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> With 285 votes...
> 
> Ptolus (MP) 	21.40%
> Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC) 	17.19%
> ...




When I've seen this happen on other polls, I've been able to trace it back to a campaign on a forum dedicated to the product. I wouldn't be surprised to see a call to arms over on OkayYourTurn.


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## Psion (Feb 6, 2008)

Called it.

http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/14332/t/Hey-look-a-poll-with-Ptolus-in-it.html


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## WhatGravitas (Feb 6, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> Unearthed has been strong in all these polls, but some products: PHB II, CBoEM, MIC, that did well earlier not so much now. Good but not great?



I guess because they are mainly crunchy add-on books. It's something you use often, hence they were going strong in the last polls. But now, in such a small selection, good crunch isn't enough. Good crunch + flexibility + flavour wins here. And UA, Eberron, and Ptolus offer that wide range of appeal. And Ptolus is incredibly shiny - it's the D&D equivalent of bling.

Cheers, LT.


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## Vayden (Feb 6, 2008)

*laughs* Hey Dave, Monte's rigging your poll! (Teaches me to read all the way through before I vote - I glanced over the list and went with PHB II - didn't even see Ptolus on there, otherwise I would have voted for it too).


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## Voadam (Feb 6, 2008)

Harneloot said:
			
		

> ANYONE who doesn't vote Ptolus has simply never really read the Big Brick nor played a campaign within the city.




Incorrect.  

I play in two campaigns there, own it myself, and use it in my games, but I still don't think it is better than UA.

A very good setting book but a few things are not really to my taste: firearms in D&D, the planar shut down, martyred Lothian, etc.


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## TerraDave (Feb 6, 2008)

I was wondering. 

Well, at least he noticed...


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## Greg K (Feb 6, 2008)

I now consider the poll's integrity lost by that call to arms.  Maybe I'll get to work early and hit the computers  in all four computer labs and add about 200 votes for UA.


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## Psion (Feb 6, 2008)

Greg K said:
			
		

> I now consider the poll's integrity lost by that call to arms.  Maybe I'll get to work early and hit the computers  in all four computer labs and add about 200 votes for UA.




Now, now. At least the people voting here are theoretically people.

I didn't intend to suggest dirty pool.

I did mean to suggest that's why you shouldn't take unscientific opinion polls with an amorphous electorate too seriously.


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## JediSoth (Feb 6, 2008)

Let's be reasonable. I voted here at least a full day before Monte mentioned that he saw the poll, and I post there WAY more often than here, so my vote IS legit.


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## Greg K (Feb 6, 2008)

Psion said:
			
		

> Now, now. At least the people voting here are theoretically people.
> 
> I didn't intend to suggest dirty pool.
> 
> I did mean to suggest that's why you shouldn't take unscientific opinion polls with an amorphous electorate too seriously.




I wouldn't rig the poll, but I did want to see what ENWorld regulars (or at least those here often enough to have found the polls on their own) and willing to vote found to be the best.  Now, with Monte linking the poll to his site, we can't.


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## Thrommel (Feb 6, 2008)

Hmmm... so the fact that I own 7 of the 12 products listed above or my 20+ years of experience playing D&D are negated by the fact that my post count hasn't hit quadruple digits here?

I apologize for polluting the empirical integrity of the internet. I thought when it said "Choose the single one you like best" the question was directed at me.

-Thrommel, apparently a mere hobbyist gamer.


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## Greg K (Feb 6, 2008)

Thrommel,
The issue that I have is that Monte linked to his site no other publisher (that I am aware of ) did that.

As for you placing your vote for what you felt was best, I have no problem with that.



			
				Thrommel said:
			
		

> Hmmm... so the fact that I own 7 of the 12 products listed above or my 20+ years of experience playing D&D are negated by the fact that my post count hasn't hit quadruple digits here?
> 
> I apologize for polluting the empirical integrity of the internet. I thought when it said "Choose the single one you like best" the question was directed at me.
> 
> -Thrommel, apparently a mere hobbyist gamer.


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## TerraDave (Feb 6, 2008)

Ok, lets all just take a deep breath.

This poll isn't over yet.


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## Thrommel (Feb 6, 2008)

{no other publisher *(that I am aware of )* did that}

That's sort of the rub though, isn't it? How could one ever control that? That's the part I don't get.

I will freely admit I would not have voted if I hadn't seen the link.

However, I did not register an account specifically to stuff the box and I looked at all the products listed and chose the one I like best. I don't see how my experience or opinion is invalidated because I followed a link.

In the end, it's an informal, unscientific poll. Like the rest of the internet - if you don't agree with it, ignore it.

-Thrommel, who also has not said what he voted for.


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## Psion (Feb 6, 2008)

Thrommel said:
			
		

> However, I did not register an account specifically to stuff the box and I looked at all the products listed and chose the one I like best. I don't see how my experience or opinion is invalidated because I followed a link.




Well, it's only "invalidated" if you are labor under the delusion that it was a scientific poll.   

In a scientific poll, though, that's exactly the sort of thing you don't want, because it gives you a biased sample. In a scientific poll, you want an _unbiased_ sample.

Obviously, some folks were expecting or hoping for something that was sorta kinda an unbiased poll, but the truth is, it's sort of hard to guarantee this in this sort of public messageboard poll.


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## DMH (Feb 7, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> Ok, lets all just take a deep breath.
> 
> This poll isn't over yet.




Looking at the closing date, it won't be for a long time.

Of those listed, I voted UA. The bloodlines, environmental varients and variable modifiers are all highly useful in my settings.


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## TerraDave (Feb 7, 2008)

And with 369 votes...

Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC) 	23.58%
Ptolus (MP) 	20.87%
Unearthed Arcana (WotC) 	10.57%
Player's Handbook II (WotC) 	8.67%
Midnight (FF) 	7.32%
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (XRP) 	4.88%
Draconomicon (WotC) 	4.61%
Spell Compendium (WotC) 	4.61%
Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords (Pz) 	4.34%
Tome of Horrors I (rev.) (NG) 	3.79%
Magic Item Compendium (WotC) 	3.25%
Complete Book of Eldritch Might (MP) 	1.90%

So is someone lobbying for eberon somewhere?

In any case, this has certainly turned into the most interesting of these polls.


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## Kristian Serrano (Feb 7, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> So is someone lobbying for eberon somewhere?
> 
> In any case, this has certainly turned into the most interesting of these polls.



I posted in the WotC Eberron forums. The members did the rest, I assume, although there aren't that many posts in that particular thread.


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## TerraDave (Feb 7, 2008)

I have done some "marketing". We will see what happens.


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## Haffrung Helleyes (Feb 7, 2008)

Well, it looks to me like a runoff poll between Ptolus and the ECS is in order.

Ken (who voted for Ptolus)


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## Turjan (Feb 7, 2008)

Greg K said:
			
		

> I wouldn't rig the poll, but I did want to see what ENWorld regulars (or at least those here often enough to have found the polls on their own) and willing to vote found to be the best.  Now, with Monte linking the poll to his site, we can't.



I think you grossly overestimate the traffic on Monte's board. This announcement there won't have much of an effect.

That said, I voted for the Complete Book of Eldritch Might. Looking at the poll, I seem to have an esoteric taste . Anyway, it's one of the earliest books in this poll, and the good earlier books have been more important to "my D&D" than the later ones.


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## TerraDave (Feb 7, 2008)

Oh, it had an effect. But the eberon forum had a bigger one. 

Right now the votes are pouring in. We will see the rankings tomorow.


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## Zander (Feb 7, 2008)

It was difficult deciding. For pure reading enjoyment, I would have gone for _Tome of Horrors_. But for utility + enjoyment, it was a toss-up between _PHB II_ and the _Spell Compendium_. In the end, I went with the _Spell Compendium_ as it's the non-core book I use most.


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## Dr. Strangemonkey (Feb 7, 2008)

I went with Magical Medieval, but I now feel sad I didn't vote for Ptolus.


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## sckeener (Feb 7, 2008)

For me it was a choice between Pathfinder and Ptolus.  Ptolus won. 

I voted when the poll came out....for what it is worth


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## Spinachcat (Feb 7, 2008)

I can't believe Iron Kingdoms - easily the best fantasy setting released since Planescape - did not make these polls.    

Without IK on the list, I have to go with Midnight, the only D&D compatible product smart enough to pander to the massive LotR fandom that was yearning to find some tie-in to the biggest fantasy movies ever.  WotC not getting the LotR license was seriously WTF. 

If you have not bought Midnight and you enjoy low magic campaigns, go correct thy error.  The bloodlines concept alone is worth the purchase of the book.   Nicely convertible to Iron Heroes as well.


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## TerraDave (Feb 7, 2008)

Here is the rankings from the 3rd party poll:

*Ptolus (MP) 	40.55%
Complete Book of Eldritch Might (MP) 	35.94%
Tome of Horrors I (rev.) (NG) 	34.56%
Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords (Pz) 	34.56%
Midnight (FF) 	33.18%
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (XRP) 	31.34%*
Shackled City Adventure Path (Pz) 	29.49%
Book of the Righteous (GR) 	27.65%
Freeport Trilogy (GR) 	27.65%
Advanced Bestiary (GR) 	26.73%
Freeport, City of Adventure (GR) 	25.35%
Dragon Compendium I (Pz) 	24.88%
The Banewarens (MP) 	24.42%
Monsternomnicon (PP) 	23.50%
City of Brass (NG) 	23.04%
Rappan Athuk Reloaded (NG) 	22.12%
Book of Fiends (GR) (out of order) 	21.20%
Creature Collection: Revised (SSS) 	20.28%
Tournaments, Fairs & Taverns (ENP) 	19.82%
Iron Kingdom World Guide (PP) 	19.82%
Relics and Rituals I (SSS) 	18.89%
Book of Hallowed Might (MP) 	17.97%
Tomb of Abysthor (NG) 	17.97%
Book of Iron Might (MP) 	17.51%
Iron Kingdom Character Guide (PP) 	17.05%
Hyperconscious (MP) 	15.21%
Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide (K&Co) 	14.29%
DCC#28: The Adventure Begins (GG) 	13.36%
Testament (GR) 	13.36%
Denizens of Avadnu (IC) 	13.36%
Witchfire Trilogy (PP) 	13.36%
From Stone to Steel (MG) 	11.98%
DCC#51:Castle Whiterock (GG) 	11.52%
Deluxe Book of Templates (St) 	11.52%
Creature Collection II (SSS) 	11.52%
Lost City of Barakus (NG) 	11.06%
Psychic's Handbook (GR) 	10.60%
Advanced Game Master Guide (GR) 	9.68%
Advanced Player Manual (GR) 	9.22%
Occult Lore (AG) 	7.83%
DCC #3: The Mysterious Tower (GG) 	6.91%
Monster Geographica: Forest (XRP) 	6.45%
Plot & Poison (GR) 	5.99%
Second World Sourcebook (2W) 	5.99%
Torn Asunder (BP) (out of order) 	5.53%
Book of Broken Dreams (Bls) 	3.69%
The Fantastic Science (ENP) 	3.69%
Wildwood (BP) 	2.30%

Iron Kingdoms did not do terribly. But not great.


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## MadMaxim (Feb 7, 2008)

I voted Eberron because I think it was a fresh new setting with some stuff that appealed to me more than Forgotten Realms. I like warforged, shifters, artificers, dragonmark houses, the whole world war scenario and the intrigue. I think it's awesome and I hope they give it the proper treatment in 4th edition, because it seriously ruled the end of 3.5. The fact that it takes almost everything about Dungeons & Dragons into account from magic to psionics is just plain great


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## Silvergriffon (Feb 7, 2008)

I voted for Unearthed Arcana because I love modular optional systems.

However, the single product that I feel was hands down the best 3E/d20 product of all time was not on either this list or the original 3rd party poll: *Iron Heroes*.


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## Job (Feb 8, 2008)

I view the tally in post #13 of this thread as the best indicator of EnWorld interest in the books, before any of the outside "supporters" piled in for Ptolus and Eberron.  I voted for the Draconomicon because of its utility in my campaigns and the beauty of the artwork.

I do like Ptolus, but there are a number of other books on this list that see more use in my game.

Job.


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## Olaf the Stout (Feb 8, 2008)

Wow, I can't believe so many people are getting riled up about an internet poll.  It's not exactly deciding who is the next leader of the free world!

Olaf the Stout


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## Pinotage (Feb 8, 2008)

So many good books to choose from. In the old end I think I'll go for the one that's proven to have excellent utility and from which I use a lot of material: PHB II. It was one of those products that showcased how PHB expansions should look like, and was a great companion to the PHB.

Pinotage


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## Psion (Feb 8, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> Wow, I can't believe so many people are getting riled up about an internet poll.  It's not exactly deciding who is the next leader of the free world!
> 
> Olaf the Stout




I count 2 people getting riled. That's "so many" now?


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## TerraDave (Feb 8, 2008)

And it looks like someone linked to the Paizo boards..but I am not really worried about it, we seem to be getting votes from all over. 

Rankings coming.


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## TerraDave (Feb 8, 2008)

With 1118 votes...

Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC) 	19.86%
Ptolus (MP) 	15.38%
Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords (Pz) 	14.31%
Unearthed Arcana (WotC) 	10.73%
Player's Handbook II (WotC) 	8.68%
Draconomicon (WotC) 	6.08%
Spell Compendium (WotC) 	5.64%
Midnight (FF) 	5.19%
Magic Item Compendium (WotC) 	4.29%
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (XRP) 	3.76%
Tome of Horrors I (rev.) (NG) 	2.86%
Complete Book of Eldritch Might (MP) 	1.70%

With 222 votes all by itself, Eberon is looking pretty solid.


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## CharlesRyan (Feb 8, 2008)

Lot of great books on the list. I almost went with Eberron, which I think was the coolest single book WotC put out, but in the end I had to go with Ptolus. Frankly, it's probably the single greatest RPG book ever produced. If we were talking about a body or work or anything but a single title, I might vote otherwise. But for the best individual title, being judged entirely on its own merits as a single book, I don't think anything touches Ptolus.


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## acorania (Feb 8, 2008)

Looks like the Runelords are indeed Rising and have at this point run up to third. 

1 - Eberron
2 - Ptolus
3 - Pathfinder

It is interesting to me that so many of the early leaders in this poll were WotC products and that is shifting now. 

I also think it is telling that the current leaders are more orriented to actually giving you a specific place to play (Pathfinder if not a true Campaign Setting, but it is more than just an adventure).

Also interesting is just how well Pathfinder is doing considering how new it is compared to other products on this list.

(as a side note, my fav WotC produced book that sees the most use at my table has been the Rules Compendium followed by the Spell Compendium).

Sean Mahoney


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## Goobermunch (Feb 8, 2008)

Job said:
			
		

> I view the tally in post #13 of this thread as the best indicator of EnWorld interest in the books, before any of the outside "supporters" piled in for Ptolus and Eberron.  I voted for the Draconomicon because of its utility in my campaigns and the beauty of the artwork.
> 
> I do like Ptolus, but there are a number of other books on this list that see more use in my game.
> 
> Job.




Interesting, but I voted before the post on Monte's board and before the post on the Eberron board, and when I voted, the ECS and Ptolus were neck and neck for most popular.  In fact, I believe my vote pushed the ECS in front by 3 votes.

--G


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## paradox42 (Feb 8, 2008)

Ah, links from other boards- I wondered why the campaign settings were doing so well.  But, *very* tough choice here.

While I agree that both Eberron and Ptolus are both staggeringly beautiful books chock-full of gaming goodness that can be ported to other settings easily if the DM is willing to do a little retooling, I had to go with Unearthed Arcana in the end for "replay value." There are so many variants in that book that you could make new campaigns trying out different combinations of them for decades, if not centuries, and still not run out. And every last one I've tried so far has been helpful to my game. Campaign settings like Ptolus and Eberron are the best of somebody else's game, but UA lets me literally make the game my own.

I would have picked Ptolus if I had picked a setting, though- the level of detail is nothing short of monumental, and I'm a very detail-oriented guy.

For current campaign utility I'd have to go with Spell Compendium, but in the end I went with maximum long-term utility.


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## CPT_KIRSTOV (Feb 8, 2008)

Psion said:
			
		

> Well, it's only "invalidated" if you are labor under the delusion that it was a scientific poll.
> 
> In a scientific poll, though, that's exactly the sort of thing you don't want, because it gives you a biased sample. In a scientific poll, you want an _unbiased_ sample.
> 
> Obviously, some folks were expecting or hoping for something that was sorta kinda an unbiased poll, but the truth is, it's sort of hard to guarantee this in this sort of public messageboard poll.





ahh - but is it not biased to want it limited to one of the major messageboards (while it might be the biggest, would it not be a sampling of all the boards be better? 

actually I would have liked a poll that connects the votes to the users profiles and only counts it if they had over 100 posts - just as a control to see how much the linking to other boards effected the poll in the long run (yes as you can see this is my first post on these boards- I never had the time to be addicted to another set of boards before)


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## GrayIguana (Feb 9, 2008)

This was tough.  I chose Pathfinder as I'm running Rise of the Runelords right now, and I'm enjoying it alot.  I mention that it was tough because the Dracomonicon and the Spell Compendium get quite a bit of use.  And while I don't run Eberron campaings often, I've picked up most of the books just to read for the fun of it.


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## cougent (Feb 9, 2008)

It needs to be linked to message boards related to each product (if such can be found) that way the unfair influence of being hyped on another message board would be canceled out by all the other hype and the resulting chaos that ensued would be... well almost fair.


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## Turjan (Feb 9, 2008)

cougent said:
			
		

> It needs to be linked to message boards related to each product (if such can be found) that way the unfair influence of being hyped on another message board would be canceled out by all the other hype and the resulting chaos that ensued would be... well almost fair.



Don't worry too much. All that linking won't help with most of the other products. Popular campaign settings like Eberron or Ptolus are emotional affairs that elicit fond memories in DM's and players alike, even more so when the memories are very fresh, as in these cases. The Pathfinder modules have a similar effect, and they are popular just now.

Relatively dry rulebooks like Unearthed Arcana have a much harder time of stirring up this kind of responses. From there it follows that it's even more remarkable that Unearthed Arcana is that popular. It doesn't matter that it doesn't lead the poll.


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## Mr. Wilson (Feb 9, 2008)

I voted for Eberron, even though I believe the PHB to be the best book created for 3e.  Everything else, all the rules options, etc came because the PHB created the system.

Pathfinder was ok and seems to have made a strong push today.  I'll have to look into Ptolus, but the price was a major turnoff.


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## RichGreen (Feb 9, 2008)

Hi,

A great list of books but I had to go with Ptolus because it's just so awesome. The Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium are very useful though and I'm also a big fan of the Complete Book of Eldritch Might and Pathfinder.

Cheers


Richard


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## punkorange (Feb 9, 2008)

For me it wasn't much of a choice.  I think Ptolus is amazing, and as a DM I find myself bragging about it to people who don't even really game.  It's more than just a campaign setting.


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## danbuter1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I had to go with Ptolus, though I really like just about every book on the list. Don't own a couple of them, though.


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## Kristian Serrano (Feb 9, 2008)

Technically, Pathfinder isn't a single product or book.


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## hewligan (Feb 9, 2008)

I went Pathfinder - it is the product that got me back into gaming after 12 years out!

Midnight was a close second for me. I love it, but it is too dark to easily find a group willing to play.


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## carmachu (Feb 10, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> And it looks like someone linked to the Paizo boards..but I am not really worried about it, we seem to be getting votes from all over.




Huh? Wasnt there some sort of hissy fit from some posters that it was even mentioned on Monte's board, but now that its coming from the piazo board its ok?


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## carmachu (Feb 10, 2008)

Mr. Wilson said:
			
		

> I'll have to look into Ptolus, but the price was a major turnoff.





Thats how I voted. I have pathfinder and its good.

But Ptolus is worth every penny, and even more. One of its incredible strengths is its corss indexed to hell....they mention a place or person and its in teh sidebar of what page its on....

Thats one of its many strengths....


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## Mr Baron (Feb 10, 2008)

*Pathfinder*

There are a lot of great products on the list.  I went with Pathfinder, but Ptolus & ToH are both excellent products and close runners up.


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## SSquirrel (Feb 10, 2008)

Charles Ryan has the right of it.  For me, the choice was between Arcana Evolved and Ptolus, but only Ptolus was on the list   Unearthed Arcana was a very good book w/lots of interesting tweaks, but Ptolus is insanely complete.  I, like other in this thread, have shown Ptolus off to just about everyone.  A cousin of mine has never gamed in her life but loves books and she was pretty wowed by the book.  I also liked Eberron, but I always liked the articles talking about the ramifications of magic on society and how things would be different.  I just wish my setting had won instead of Keith's 

It's the internet, it isn't like Monte's boards, Paizo's boards and ENWorld are all in different galaxies, people belong to all 3 and of course you will see people post a thread they're interested in supporting.  This isn't hard science or the Presidential elections tho, so its not worth getting bent out of shape over   FWIW, Ptolus is siting at 215 for a very solid 3rd place right now.


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## sinecure (Feb 10, 2008)

This poll is so weird.  First it was Eberron.  Then it was Ptolus.  Now it's pathfinder.


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## acorania (Feb 10, 2008)

CPT_KIRSTOV said:
			
		

> actually I would have liked a poll that connects the votes to the users profiles and only counts it if they had over 100 posts - just as a control to see how much the linking to other boards effected the poll in the long run (yes as you can see this is my first post on these boards- I never had the time to be addicted to another set of boards before)




So we regular lurkers shouldn't be able to vote? Sure I have only posted a few times, but I have been a member for a long time and am a very regular reader... intersting...

Sean Mahoney


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## jeff37923 (Feb 10, 2008)

If _d20 Traveller _ isn't on the list, then its not worth voting on.


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## Xanaqui (Feb 10, 2008)

*Interesting selection*

Frankly, none of my favorites are on here. I'm surprised that the PH, for example, isn't present, nor either of the DMGs, nor the 3.5 MM.


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## kodyboy (Feb 11, 2008)

monte cooks arcana unearthed and iron heroes


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## TerraDave (Feb 11, 2008)

TerraDave said:
			
		

> With 1118 votes...
> 
> Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC) 	19.86%
> Ptolus (MP) 	15.38%
> ...




And with 1701 votes...I was wrong,

Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords (Pz) 	20.05%
Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC) 	18.81%
Ptolus (MP) 	13.17%
Unearthed Arcana (WotC) 	8.76%
Player's Handbook II (WotC) 	8.58%
Draconomicon (WotC) 	5.94%
Spell Compendium (WotC) 	5.41%
Midnight (FF) 	4.70%
Magic Item Compendium (WotC) 	4.29%
A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (XRP) 	3.59%
Tome of Horrors I (rev.) (NG) 	3.41%
I want ZAZ, and they ain’t got it. 	1.88%
Complete Book of Eldritch Might (MP) 	1.41%

We have another lead change.


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## Madfox (Feb 11, 2008)

sinecure said:
			
		

> This poll is so weird.  First it was Eberron.  Then it was Ptolus.  Now it's pathfinder.




It is an internet poll on a fan-based message board. What did you expect?   For the record: I did get here through Monte's Message Board, but I did vote Eberron.

P.S. Funny, I rarely visit these boards, and I have not posted much in years. Still I beat that 100 post count


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## MrFilthyIke (Feb 11, 2008)

I voted Eberron as there is so much
packed in that one book I have game
after possible game for years to come
(w/o being daunting like Ptolus).

Although the following are FANTASTIC books:
Draconomicon (WotC)
Spell Compendium (WotC)
Tome of Horrors I (rev.) (NG)


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## malladin (Feb 11, 2008)

Unearthed Arcana: it made an already useful toolkit for fantasy massively adaptable to differing themes/approaches.


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## catsclaw227 (Feb 11, 2008)

Personally, I went with Ptolus, but if I had a choice, the best d20 book for me, as a DM,  was Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous.  The best D&D pantheon ever...


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## paz (Feb 12, 2008)

CPT_KIRSTOV said:
			
		

> actually I would have liked a poll that connects the votes to the users profiles and only counts it if they had over 100 posts



How about if we link it to longevity of account? Or to include only those with community supporter accounts?


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## grrtigger (Feb 12, 2008)

paz said:
			
		

> How about if we link it to longevity of account? Or to include only those with community supporter accounts?




Or maybe display the results in several views, such as total votes, community supporter v. not, etc.


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## Piratecat (Feb 12, 2008)

Apparently polls are set to allow non-members to vote. If anyone is curious, 124 non-members voted for Ptolus; 272 for Pathfinder; and 211 for Eberron. I'm too lazy to compare IP addresses.


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## danbuter1 (Feb 12, 2008)

So if they are not regular posters here, they don't count? I don't really like that point of view. If anything, having this many non-posters here may give a better impression of what the general populace likes, instead of die-hard fans like most of the people here.


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## lazerfish (Feb 12, 2008)

I haven't read a bunch of these (including Ptolus), but I find it hard to believe that I'd feel any of them were superior to Eberron.


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## blargney the second (Feb 12, 2008)

The problem isn't that there are people voting who aren't regulars.  (Hi guys!)  The problem is that the nature of the poll has been subverted from the original poster's intent.  It's turned from a Single Best Product poll into a Which Setting Has The Most Rabid Fans poll.  It's still interesting information, just not quite the same thing.
-blarg


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## Turjan (Feb 12, 2008)

lazerfish said:
			
		

> I haven't read a bunch of these (including Ptolus), but I find it hard to believe that I'd feel any of them were superior to Eberron.



Weird statement. "I don't know what I'm talking about, but I trust in my uninformed opinion, anyway." Then again, that's probably human nature.

Nothing against Eberron, of course. Even though it's not my cup of tea, I concur that it has its moments.


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## DarkWhite (Feb 12, 2008)

blargney the second said:
			
		

> The problem isn't that there are people voting who aren't regulars.  (Hi guys!)  The problem is that the nature of the poll has been subverted from the original poster's intent.  It's turned from a Single Best Product poll into a Which Setting Has The Most Rabid Fans poll.  It's still interesting information, just not quite the same thing.
> -blarg



As the guy who linked this poll to the Paizo messageboards, let me qualify by stating I have been a long-time member of ENWorld forums, and remember back when ENWorld started as the 3Ed Rumours website.  I don't post here often, but I frequently lurk in forum topics that interest me.

Now to qualify my vote, for Pathfinder.

Yes, there are many good products in this list, Eberron is indeed one of them.  But for my bang-for-buck, Pathfinder wins hands-down.

Even comparing Eberron not as a single book, but as a campaign setting, to Pathfinder, an Adventure Path, Eberron excels at creating an original game setting, but Pathfinder excels at creating original game adventures - adventures which translate to more game-time at my table!

To date, there has not been much by way of adventures released for Eberron, which is unfortunate, as it is a fascinating setting.  On the other hand, Pathfinder contains almost entirely adventure, describing the campaign setting by adventuring through it, one encounter at a time.  Pathfinder has made it easy for me as a GM to run a campaign, and I now have a regular group of enthusiastic players since no other time during the life of 3Ed.  For that, I am deeply indebted to Paizo and their incredible Runelords!


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## TerraDave (Feb 12, 2008)

Poll is closed.

New Poll here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=218937

And this one will be open for a week. Promise.


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## jgbrowning (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who voted. I'm proud to have a product in the top 10.

joe b.


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## TerraDave (Feb 13, 2008)

And what a great product it is!

Think about it, it beat both the Complete Book of Eldritch Might and Tome of Horrors.


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## SSquirrel (Feb 16, 2008)

Interestingly enough, that means that subtracting the non-member votes you have:

Eberron Campaign Setting (WotC)  	   	129
Pathfinder: Rise of the Runelords (Pz) 		90
Ptolus (MP) 		109


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