# Paragons of the Burning Sky manuscript/draft [updated 29 May]



## Morrus (May 26, 2010)

For those interested, I've attached the current manuscript for _Paragons of the Burning Sky_.

It's important to note that this is very much a draft copy; it's my own first attempt at writing 4E mechanics, and as such is fairly unbalanced as it is. Comments are welcomed!

You'll note it's still in the revision stage (and as such you can see notes and alterations on it). It's by no means a final product; however I'm aware that some of you are interested in this manuscript and others have offered to help with it, so here it is for your viewing pleasure. 

Just don't mock me too much... it's my first time! At least now you can see why I pay _other _people to do this stuff. 

_[Edit - updated with some of the suggestions below]._
_[Edit 2 - updated again with some of RW's suggestions]._
_[Edit 3 - updated May 28]_
_[Edit 4 - updated May 29 with "Sights of Dassen"]_


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## renau1g (May 26, 2010)

Comments: (Still WIP, I accidentally hit submit)

[sblock=Aspirant of the West Wind]
I'd suggest changing the entrance requirement from Dex to a monk. Multi-attackers (like TWF barbarian) would benefit greatly from this PP. My half-orc TWF barbarian would add around 6 or so damage each attack with it as is.

The powers should likely have Implement keyword so it scales properly.

Like Lightning - I'd add something like Effect: you move double your speed (or shift double your speed)[/sblock]

[sblock=Biomancer]
I'd add "or fall" at the end of the Altered Limbs wording.

Implement keywords to the powers. 

Horroble Visage, Melee touch  - maybe should be Melee 1 to keep in line with other powers

Level 12 utility seems underpowered as a Daily. I'd change to encoutner as the Electric Storm power for the previous PP is actually more powerful granting the +2 to all defenses

Massive Secretion should likely be daily, not encounter. [/sblock]

[sblock=Disciple of East Winds]
I'd add "or fall" at the end of the Floating on Air wording.

Does the level 16 feature grant hover?

Add implement keyword to powers.

Stun seems a bit powerful for an encounter power at level 11. Also, melee 1 as opposed to touch.

Maybe Monk as prerequisite? This PP would be great for melee clerics (if they boosted WIS)

Level 12 power is Dex vs AC, but Wis mod damage.  This is also different than normal PP's as they have all had a utility power here, not an attack one.

Like a Hurricane- I'd add something like Effect: you move double your speed (or shift double your speed)[/sblock]

[sblock=GATE PASS RESISTANCE FIGHTER]
Features are cool

Freedom! - nothing wrong per se, but normally there's an attack as level 11 power, not utility. This would leave the PC with one less attack option vs. other PC's

Setting a Trap - I think this should have either the weapon or implement keyword to benefit from the scaling bonus they provide or have it as Wis/Dex +6 (bumps to +9 at epic)[/sblock]

[sblock=Knight of the Aquiline Cross]
Features are cool

Infuse Life - nothing wrong per se, but normally there's an attack as level 11 power, not utility. This would leave the PC with one less attack option vs. other PC's. 

Dispel Curse - I might make a minor action, also the flavour text doesn't seem to strongly match the power's effect


Resurrection - nothing wrong per se, but normally there's an attack as level 20 power, not utility. This would leave the PC with one less attack option vs. other PC's. The power is pretty powerful, but just a note. I might add a time limit on time since death, otherwise if the Knight is the only one left over 3 days or so he can bring everyone back to life. [/sblock]

[sblock=Lyceum Adept]
Level 11 feature needs some tweaking as you could grab a level 30 daily power as this feature. It could be something like you learn a new encounter power of your level or lower, this power can be retrained at each level you would learn a new encounter power.

Arcane Insight - there should be a trigger added to the power "you are subjected to an effect that a save can end" maybe?

Sticky Effect - saving throw penalties are pretty potent in an orbizard's hands, that's why they nerfed Orb of Imposition to the first save. I might change wording to -4 penalty to first successful save against this power (forcing the enemy to roll 14 or higher to save) or have a lower penalty against the effect.[/sblock]

[sblock=Order of Echoed Souls]
Level 11 feature seems a bit too powerful. It's an untyped +4 to hit vs. will powers. I can see a wizard grabbing a monk MC feat to take this PP.

Soul Breach - I'd add implement keyword

Absorb Souls - I'd remove the stun your opponents (save ends) from the hit area, and change the miss to effect as the stun triggers on hit or miss. Add implement keyword
[/sblock]


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## Morrus (May 26, 2010)

Cool.  I've updated it with some of those suggestions.

Re.  Monk prereqs - when I initially discussed these on the boards here, people were adamantly against my using monk as a prereq for them, which is why I removed that.

Re. "Usually it's an attack power here" etc.; yup.  However I made a decision that the flavour was more important than the customary order of powers (which aren't actually a rule, just how it tends to be done).  I reckon they'll work just fine.

Implement/Weapon keywords - I haven't added yet; this is for flavour reasons.  If there are scaling issues, it might be better to hard-code the scaling into the power.


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## RangerWickett (May 26, 2010)

It's been a while, but wasn't the east wind the lightning themed group, and the west wind the floaty group?

*Lightning Guys*
Powers feel like they should be arcane. And I'd have the attack target Reflex, rather than AC.

Bear in mind, if you use 'Monk,' as a prereq, a high-Wisdom barbarian could still take the lightning boost damage. I'd suggest making it "Prereq: Monk, Sorcerer, or [name of feat in Player's Guide associated with East Wind]." Then change the bonus damage to be once per round.

Or maybe something weird, like "Prereq: At-will power with the lightning keyword."

"When you spend an action point, you gain a +4 shield bonus (power bonus? what does 'Shield' give?) to AC, Fortitude, and Reflex. Additionally, until the end of your next turn, any creature that hits you with a melee attack takes lightning damage equal to your Dexterity modifier."

Immunity to any elemental damage is kinda rare. Maybe at epic level. At paragon I'd say resist lightning 20 is significant enough, without rendering certain foes toothless.

I'd suggest Like Lightning deal a set die damage, as opposed to [w], because that fits better with the monks and sorcerers it's seemingly designed for.


*Floating Guys*
Powers feel like they should be divine. And I'd have the attack target Reflex, rather than AC.

At level 11, could you make it, "You gain a flight speed 6. At the end of your turn, if you have not landed, you fall." (Technically, by 4e flight rules, you descend a distance equal to your flight speed, then fall the remaining distance.) I just know I've always been upset that technically you can't fly into the air to attack a flying monster, because by the rules as written you zip up, then fall before you can attack.

I'd suggest switching the level 16 benefit with the level 12 utility slot. For instance, make a level 12 utility power, at-will, Move Action. "You Fly your speed. At the end of your next turn, if you do not use this power again you fall. You cannot use this power if you have taken any standard actions this turn, nor can you take a standard action this turn after using this power." Basically, you can fly around, but you can't attack at the same time. This prevents abuse like flying archers, while still allowing, let's be honest, a crazy powerful option for scouting and mobility.

Then at level 16, maybe have something like 'Whenever you use an encounter or daily attack power, you can slide each creature adjacent to you 1 square."

I'd change the level 20, because it should be distinct from the 'lightning guy' level 20. If lightning guy turns into lightning, then hurricane guy should have something like: "Close burst 8, Enemies in Burst, Wis vs. Fort, 2d6+Wis damage. Effect: Slide each creature hit and each ally in burst 8 squares." The damage would be low, but the overall effect would be powerful.


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## Morrus (May 26, 2010)

Good call on the East/West switcheroo.  Bad use of copy/paste on my part!

I've adopted the majority of your suggestions.  I'll think some more about the 16 benefit/12 utiltiy switch combined with the 20 change.


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## RangerWickett (May 26, 2010)

*Biomancer*
Lee's squid's name was "Lula," not Lulu.

Should you grant low light vision?

I wouldn't give biomancer's flight. That's weakening the schtick of another paragon path. And a burrow speed is a weird one, since I think technically it only works in dirt, and there's not much dirt in the campaign, just lots of rocks. Swim or Climb is still pretty sweet.

Again, at level 16, it should be "once per round." I mean, I personally would have no qualms with barbarian biomancers, but if we're trying to stick with 4e design mentality, we should try to retain balance. Or did you mean "any creature that hits you with a melee attack takes damage equal to your Con"? Hm, that might actually be an interesting power for the utility, since the current one ("No OAs while climbing!") is kinda niche.

I'd make the attacks "INT or CHA vs.," since the majority of arcane classes are Int-based. And if you're horrifying folks by how weird you look, shouldn't that be "vs. Will?"

At level 20, stunned sucks. It should be used with incredible moderation, both by PCs and DMs. Ongoing damage is less annoying. Blinded could work. Either way, this power is disgusting, in a literal "ugh, I would puke if I saw someone spray ooze in a 25-ft. radius" way.

I dunno. This class strikes me more as a collection of "let's be gross" powers, and less of a "I want to make my body more perfect than the one nature designed" class. 

I'd keep the perception bonus, or maybe lessen it to +2 and grant low-light vision. Altered limbs is interesting for climbing or swimming, but not burrowing and flight I feel. At level 16, maybe grant a +1 bonus to saves, since your body is more resilient and resistant.

Horrible visage is fun. Level 12 utility could be something like, "Until end of encounter, you gain one of the following abilities: darkvision, tremorsense, water breathing, resist 5 to one energy type, or reach 2."

Level 20, maybe have it be a biomantic attack, in that you modify the target's body. Single target, good range, moderate damage. Hit: Choose one of the following. It lasts until end of your next turn, and then save ends. Miss: Half damage and lasts until end of your next turn.

* Choose an energy type. Creature loses any resistances and immunities to it and gains vulnerable 10.
* Creature loses one movement option - climb, burrow, flight, swim, teleport. If it has no movement options remaining, it gains a land speed of 2.
* Creature's reach is reduced to 1.
* Creature loses any special senses, such as blindsense, tremorsense, etc. If it has no sensory options remaining, it is treated as blind.
* Creature loses any regeneration it has.


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## RangerWickett (May 26, 2010)

*Resistance Fighter*

I like Ambush.

Unconventional Tactics. So you have to spend no action points in the first or second encounter for the day, but then in the third encounter you can use two? Eh, a little underwhelming. After reading 'Freedom,' I think that would work well here: "Whenever you spend an action point, you can end any immobilized or restrained conditions on you and can shift 1 square."

Inspiring Presence. This is very powerful. Probably want to clarify just in case that you don't 'inspire' enemies. Also clarify if you affect yourself, since lots of 'inspiration' abilities don't. Actually, this could become the level 12 utility; it's pretty strong, and it would work well either as a daily aura, or perhaps as an encounter free action: "Target ally within 5 makes a save with a +2 bonus against each condition a save can end, can stand as a free action, and can shift 1 square."

Maybe, to go with the unorthodox tactics theme, something 'commander's strike'-esque for the level 11 attack. Encounter, free action. You grant combat advantage until the end of your next turn. One time this turn when you hit a creature with an attack, you can have that creature grant combat advantage to your allies, and your allies get a +4 bonus to damage on attacks against that target until the end of your next turn.

For the ambush, I think it would set up a good game play mechanic if you created a zone, and you could trigger the zone (as a minor action? free action?), dealing damage to everyone in there. The fun would be in trying to get as many enemies in there and all your allies out of there before you spring the trap.


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## Morrus (May 26, 2010)

Some good ideas there! I definitely like the zoned ambush - in fact I don't understand why I didn't do that!

I'm writing some new stuff for this - an Evolved Living Sword (for groups who want to keep it into the paragon tier) and adding the Dasseni Warhorse from the jousting supplement.

If there's anything else obviously missing, let me know.  Paragon Paths were the focus, but there's more to paragon tier than that!


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## renau1g (May 26, 2010)

Morrus said:


> Implement/Weapon keywords - I haven't added yet; this is for flavour reasons.  If there are scaling issues, it might be better to hard-code the scaling into the power.




I believe the current design standard is 4/6/8 added to the power (see Minotaur PHB3 racial entry)


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## RangerWickett (May 26, 2010)

*Aquiline Cross*
Prereq could include "Know Remove Affliction and Resurrection rituals."

Not all divine classes grant healing. Action point thing could just be, "When you spend an action point, you may have an ally within 10 squares heal 2d6 hit points." (Is that too little at paragon level?)

Lifted by Faith. Solid. Strong.

Clinging to Life. I'd adjust the wording. "Allies within 5 squares of you gain a +2 bonus to death saving throws." (The wake up on 18-20 is inherent in that, and could actually get confusing if they have a bonus to death saves from some other source.)

I do generally suggest some manner of offense in the powers, even if it's indirect, just because, well, combat in 4e takes so f*****g long. Like maybe level 11 is "All allies in burst can make a saving throw with a +2 bonus. They gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn."

Dispel Curse is groovy.

Resurrection . . . that's getting into epic destiny "resurrection power" territory. Not to mention it saves the party a lot of money. Maybe something like Close Burst 20, one ally within burst, immediate interrupt when an ally would be reduced below 0 hit points or die. The ally is healed as if he had spent a healing surge, and can stand as a free action. If the ally would have died from failing a death saving throw, he's treated as not having failed the save. The ally's initiative moves to right after yours and gains +4 to all defenses until the end of your next turn.

I dunno. I'm not sure what works best. Maybe you should, like, summon a giant eagle spirit or something. 


*Lyceum Adept*
I'd up the prereq just a tad, to "Any arcane class _and_ any other non-martial class."

Scholastic Knowledge and Arcane Insight are great. Maybe make it "any implement encounter power of level 11; you can retrain this power later as you gain levels. Treat the power as one from your class, so you can use your implement with it." (Probably not broken if you allow wizards to learn fighter powers, though. This also lets sorcerers apply their damage bonus to cross-class powers.)

Ritual Mastery or something like it shows up as an epic destiny power, I think in Arcane Power or FR player's guide. Maybe weaken it slightly to, "Once per day you can expend a daily attack or utility power to cast a ritual as a standard action. You must expend the normal component cost for the ritual."

You really don't like attack powers, do you?  

Arcane insight is kinda boring, just granting a save. One thing I've always wanted to see is an encounter power that says, "You use an at-will implement attack power that one of your allies within 20 squares knows. The attack and damage rolls are modified by Intelligence or Charisma, and you can use any implement you're proficient with."

Sticky Effect could end up redundant with orb wizards, and it doesn't fit the theme of 'learning magic of many varied sources' as well as it could. Maybe something like minor action, choose a damage keyword. The next time you use a power you can have it deal damage of the chosen keyword instead of its normal type.

Or maybe at 12th level, the PC just gains a free multiclass feat, even if he or she has already multiclassed.

How does Learn Power interact with monsters that don't use class-derived powers? It's a cool idea, but it's either really niche (how many enemies are built with class powers?) or really versatile (why yes, I will mimic the berbalang's "duplicate self" power).

If you want to go for balanced versatility, maybe make it, Daily 20, use any daily attack power you know of level 20 or below.


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## Talysian (May 27, 2010)

I'd really like to see sticking with the same format for what powers are gotten when, I understand theme, but also you want to maintain balance.


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## Morrus (May 28, 2010)

Cool.  Updated again with several suggestions from above, plus the Evolved Living Sword and Dasseni Warhorse.


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## Revinor (Jun 5, 2010)

I would suggest getting rid of all stat requirements for PP. It is not a case for any official PP and just smells very 3e. 

Aspirant of the East Wind
In the way it is written currently, you can take this PP at the cost of single multiclass feat and get +Dex to damage for all melee attacks. This might be a bit too powerful option for rogues, assassins etc. Pit fighter got nerfed recently, because it was giving secondary stat to melee damage, here you propose giving primary stat...
As other people mentioned, you need scaling for to-hit for attacks, or add implement or weapon keyword. I would suggest doing the same as monk attacks currently - don't try to correct way monk is done by making it more 'unarmed' that it is in core book. Remember, no weapon/implement means no critical damage, special properties etc - less fun.

Biomancer
No AP ability at 11 ? Again, all PP have one, so don't make exceptions without very good reason.
Powers lack weapon or implement keyword.

Disciple of the West Wind
Again, missing weapon/implement.
12lvl power should be utility, not attack.

Gate Pass Resistance Fighter
11lvl power should be attack, not utility.


Knight of the Aquiline Cross
11lvl and 20lvl should be attacks, not utility.
20lvl power is quite wrong for a power. 'Standard action' and 'less than one day' should never appear in the same power. If you really want to make a resurrect power for 20 lvl, make it a daily attack, which deals damage and has the effect of raising adjacent ally which died during this encounter. You should describe details of resurrection - what daily/encounter powers he has left, what with action points, hp, is there a penalty till 3 milestones like with normal rise dead etc.

Lyceum Adept
Again 11 and 12 lvl powers mixed utility/attack
Looks that you are giving him one more encounter attack power than usual - very dangerous, there is a reason for the current limit. On 30lvl, he will have two highest level (27) encounter powers, which is quite bad for balance.
Learn Power... does this mean that you can steal 29lvl daily power from somebody, which is his most prized thing and use it yourself at the cost of 20lvl daily power? Very, very bad.

Order of Echoed Souls
AP ability missing.
Borrow Power - broken and underspecified. Can I breath fire back on dragon? Use Touch of Death back on Orcus? Touch of death has reach 4 because he is big, do I also get loooong hand when using it back? Forget about this power.
Again 12 level power should be utility
20 lvl power looks like attack to me, but is marked as utility. Anyway, burst 5 area, enemy only, with STUN TILL SAVE !!! is reasonable power for 29lvl daily (and it will be still among the best out there), not for 20 lvl daily.

Ragesian Inquisitor
Again confused power types - 20lvl should be daily.
Greater teleport - it is probably first long-range teleport usable in single round in game. Don't do that, it destroys the way encounters are handled in 4e.
And again implement/weapon keywords missing.

Solei Palancis
Blind till save on AP is way too powerful for 11 lvl. Maybe blind till end of next round, but it is still bit too powerful for my taste.
Automatic regeneration 5 when bloodied is an overkill.
Again, 12lvl should be utility, 20lvl should be attack.
True Strike - stun till save is too powerful for 11lvl encounter IMHO.

Trillth Bound
16lvl aura is a killer. It is removing all minions automatically - which is not that big problem, unless you run through the city. Are you sure it is an intention to make this PP a city destroyer? Remember, that at higher levels, all humanoids will be minions for PCs (5 lvl soldier becomes 12 lvl minion for example etc). Unplayable IMHO.
Again, complete confusion 11/12/20 lvl power types.

Wayfarer Cirqueliste
Wow... looks perfect. All things in proper places, power level seems ok (11lvl effect till save is on border of too powerful, but probably can be accepted due to flavor), good flavor... This is probably single PP here which can be just put out there and shown to the world.

I have probably missed many things, not really focused on power level of attack powers (as often levels were confused, so not really comparable). Generally, one advice - if you are new to the game, start with sticking to what was done in official sources and evolve from there, instead of trying to correct perceived 'design issues'. This thing you should do only after you are very very experienced and not even then probably - because consistency might be better than being 1% smarter in some cases.


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## Talysian (Jun 5, 2010)

I agree plus it allows for people who take the wotbs one's not to gimp themselves.


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## Rechan (Jun 6, 2010)

There's a typo in the Biomancer's daily power. One of the options is removing the target's movements. The options in the power are "burrow, *fight*, swim..." Should be Flight.


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## Dracomaxis (Jul 6, 2010)

Morrus, you never seem to dissapoint when it come to custom made items. I am overjoyed at this and I am shure that my players will also love what will be in store for them later in the saga. Thank you very much.


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