# Carnivale Season 2 Finale (spoilers!)



## LightPhoenix (Mar 31, 2005)

Ok, so I was left pretty slack-jawed at the conclusion of this.  I wanted to post, but I needed to sift through some things in my mind first.

First off, poor Jonesy!  I pretty much figured either he or Libby would die in this episode, but I had NO clue how it would play out.

Secondly, Sofie.  She obviously turned evil, but why/how?  Is it a conscious choice for her to be good or evil?  Does this mean, as the Omega, that it's Sofie who decides how the battle between good and evil plays out?

In the beginning of the season, as Sofie reads Ben's tarot for the second time, we see The Lovers, and a flash of Sofie and Ben dressed in white in a lover's embrace.  In the end of the season, Sofie sees the image of her mother being raped by Justin, which pretty well matches The Lovers, reversed.  In the end I think that Sofie has a conscious choice to make (also indicated by The Lovers), whether she sides with Good or Evil, or something else altogether.

Another interesting image is when Sofie heals Justin (as the last image could only be, IMO).  Right after that, we see Ben in Management's booth (another image thing) with his wounds healed.  Go back and watch, you can see the cut in his shirt with the blue blood around it, but his side is healed.  It's possible that Sofie can't really heal anyone, but just Justin and Ben, and that healing one heals the other... the two are linked.

Also, numerous shots of Ben as a saint - the scarecrow as a cross (and he gets down and spits in Justin's eye, just like Samson said), the carnies carrying him off, Ben in Management's booth (and Mgmt.'s death leaving a Shroud).

I'm thinking in the third season that Ben starts growing his own little army.  Not only have people seen Justin go berserk, but they saw Ben heal _multiple_ people.  Also, a small note, but Ben can obviously focus the healing, if only to draw strength from Justin.  Justin on the other hand grows stronger through the deaths of others (poor Norman).


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 31, 2005)

And it will probably not get a third season.

*sniff*


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## JoeGKushner (Mar 31, 2005)

DVD sales will probably determine that.


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## Ruined (Mar 31, 2005)

I'll look for the source, but my fiance' told me last night that it got picked up for a third season. It's been their second-highest rated show while Deadwood's been running.

And wow at the confrontation. They had me fearful for a bit that there would be no Clancy Brown (Justin) for the third season, which would be the death of the show, IMHO. Good to see them turn things upside down with Sophie.  Even if it made us curse greatly from our sofas.  

EDIT: While I wait for that link, here's a great message from Clancy Brown regarding the status of the show as he sees it. Good read:

http://s6.invisionfree.com/The_Baggage_Trailer/index.php?showtopic=149


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## Fast Learner (Mar 31, 2005)

While I enjoyed the climax, I was really hoping for resolution. This was a good opportunity to end the series, and they really set things up well for it to happen. In fact, but for Sofie and her actions, everything works out to end the series.

Makes me wonder if they had this "alternate" ending in case they found out that it was picked up for a third season.

I would have been quite sated with 24 total episodes. The way they pulled the corn field chase from the first season through was well done, and would have brought nice closure. Alas.


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## LightPhoenix (Mar 31, 2005)

It hasn't been decided if Carnivale will be picked up for a third season.  However, it's been getting better ratings than The Wire, and that was picked up again.  Also, Knauf has said that "things look good" for a third season to be made.  He expects to hear for sure in June.


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## Ruined (Mar 31, 2005)

Apparently the source my lady saw jumped the gun with his first post. Retracted, said that nothing official has come down the pipe.  We're all hopeful.


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## Aristotle (Mar 31, 2005)

It was great, and I've been wondering why the show isn't discussed here. Sophie seems evil. Thus far no Avatar has been given a choice between good and evil, although it has been made clear that an Avatar can choose not to use the powers they have for the purposes they were given (Scudder is the prime example as he was a dark Avatar but pretty much just wanted to be left alone).

Sophie does however break one rule already. Only the eldest male child is an Avatar. While she is Justin's eldest, she is not male. The developer, who originally gave us the 'eldest male child' rule, has also been quoted as saying that the Usher is a special form of Avatar, unique among all of the Avatars, and that other unique 'wildcards' like the Usher most likely exist but are unknown to the key players in the story at this time. I think Sophie is a wildcard of some sort with some pivotol role in the story.

I do hope they pick up the next season. The show has done well, and the developer planned for 6 seasons (2 per 'book'). I really want to see the story through to the end.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 31, 2005)

Where are you getting all this "avatar" stuff and such? I mean, yes, that's what it seems like, but clearly you have some kind of more authoritative source. I'm curious and would like to learn more.


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## Aristotle (Apr 1, 2005)

I don't have much in the way of links. I did most of my research on a work computer and I make sure not to save links at work. I also clear my history every night.

I got a bunch of it from the forums for Carnivale linked to on the HBO site for the show. The forums are weird. It's all basically in one post with a few thousand replies and the whole thread goes from newest to oldest.

There are also a number of fan sites, one or two of which have actually hosted talks with Daniel Knauf (the show's creator). Transcripts of those talks are where I got all the "eldest son" type stuff.

I mostly googled...
www.carnivale.org and http://carnivaleinterviews.blogspot.com/ might be good spots to start. I probably visited 20 or so fan sites. To be totally fair, Dan usually uses the terms Creature of Darkness (COD) and Creature of Light (COL) to differentiate the two kinds of Avatars, but I am certain I've seen a quote from him using the term 'Avatar' as well. I don't have time to look for it just now though.


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## Fast Learner (Apr 1, 2005)

Great, thanks.


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## Paragon (Apr 1, 2005)

they are called avatars several times in the first season.  when ben is in the coal mines in babylon, when he is in the grave yard in one of the final two episodes of the first season it is written or he writes it in his blood about avatar.


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