# RPM Pré Beta Discussion...



## Cergorach (Apr 9, 2002)

*RPM Pré Beta Discussion...*

Good morning everyone!

I (and i think many others) have just received their Pré Beta test release of RPM. I thought it would be a good idea that the folks who are going to test it have a place to discuss it. The other thread was becomming a bit long and i thought that it's for more general discussions about RPM. I hope that this isn't a problem with Luke.

I just installed it, the splash sceen scared the heck out of me (thought it was some rogue program), pretty kewl though! Same goes for the Outlook style side bar (an MS invasion ;-). I just have started pushing some random buttons, everything looks pretty good, nice improvements!


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## Luke (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: RPM Pré Beta Discussion...*



			
				Cergorach said:
			
		

> *Good morning everyone!
> 
> I (and i think many others) have just received their Pré Beta test release of RPM.
> ...
> ...




I don't mind at all.

There are less than 30 pre-beta playtesters though! I've specifically limited the call to those prepared to give me feedback on the new, enhanced combat system, and some brand new features, within a week.

Those using the current public release may, however, get something out of reading through the updated sample combat tutorial here .

Regards,


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## Codejoy (Apr 10, 2002)

*First impressions.*

Well I got the beta also and fired it up.  Some of my first impressions are:  The outlook look is very nice, makes navigating things much better.  In UI design its always a good idea to incorperate known conventions..and this is one that works very well with the goals of RPM.  The combat stuff is intense, and very exstensive.  The tutorial that was mailed out is great for getting the ground running and try as I might I couldnt find many problems in the tutorial   It all was very helpful as to creating an encounter. Since this is just a first impressions post I will not yet go into the details of what worked and what didn't...not only that I have to play with it more.    Oddly enough im starting and Adventure here soon and plan fully on utilizing RPM for this.  This will be my first RPM used adventure.  Im looking forward to it.

Regards,
Shane
p.s. more to come in a more thourough matter...


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## CRGreathouse (Apr 11, 2002)

Wow.  I have to say, the GUI have improved immensely.

I noticed many of the fixes that have been in the queue to be fixed have been addressed now.

I'll give the program a better look and post tomorrow in detail, finding all the minutia that need fixing.  So far, though, there's been nothing to see.  Great!


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## Luke (Apr 11, 2002)

*Next pre-beta release*

Thanks Guys,

This is going pretty well. Much more focussed than the usual feedback turn-around.

I'll make a pre-beta update available in a couple of days, so if there's any new issues you have before then, let me know.

Issues raised that I'm fixing, or have fixed, are:

Stability Issues: 
- Fixed bug to "Update Classes" when you edit class levels for spells. 
- Issue with "Jamis NPC Generator" import fixed. 
-Issue with rebuilding the database fixed. 
-Creating database objects (creatures items). An important fix. The system used to easily become unstable if you killed the program, or imported other people's data. 
- "Groups" and "players" now included as part of adventure import/export. 
- The combat tutorial has been updated to be easier to follow. 
- Critical damage rolls fixed. 
- Automatic initiative sorting for all cases ( start of round, and skipping defeated creatures ). 
- Racial subclasses get properly cleared if you change the race in character/creature generation. 
- Registration of RPMnetworkPrj.ocx on startup (not important anyway). 
- When you create a wand, you can select the spell effect and caster level for it now. 
- "Auto-complete" optional button for attacks and damage. 

BattleMap features: 
- Eliminate "jerkiness" when clicking/moving  creatures. 
- Show distance moved as you move creatures, and update stepped/moved. 
- Show important status info (active, can act, can act full, stepped, moved...). 
- "Missing File" issue addressed.
- As you move creatures, the total distance is displayed. Helps limit a 5' step to 5'.

Working my way through a good play tester recommendation now... 

Thanks,


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## Raz0rwyre (Apr 11, 2002)

*Battlemap Wish-list*

After playing with the Battlemap some, here are some changes/additions/enhancements I'd love to see:

- Ability to move a character one square at a time, perhaps with the keyboard arrow keys, limiting their movement to what they are capable of on their character sheet.  Of course, this could be overridden by dragging the character with the mouse (for teleports, flying spells, etc.).

- Instant random-ish battlemaps.  Example: my party is currently in a snowy mountain area.  Mostly it's all the same terrain... a snow-covered, rocky area with a couple dead trees and lots of boulders.  To generate a random encounter, I just take a handful of dice and drop them on the battlemap...wherever they land is where trees and boulders are.  This kind of randomly generated battlemap would be fantastic in RPM!

- Ability to 'snap' characters to squares, again so they follow more accurate movement rules.

- On-map diagrams to show the effects of grenadelike weapons, radius-bases spell effects, cone effects, etc. etc.  You get the picture.


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## nickT (Apr 14, 2002)

*Pre Beta discussion*

And after all that I post it to the wrong thread!!!!!

Hi, 
Just thought I would get something on screen to show that I am awake. I have played with RPM and must admit to being favourably impressed, I am in the process of writing a similar piece of software for my Gurps Campaign, and I am painfully aware of how the computer can get between the GM and the players. Because of this I have not yet used RPM in my D&D campaign, (first impressions are important, and I didn't want my players to see me struggling with RPM, since this would build up resistance to my employing it later). Having said this I hope to use it next Friday, assuming I have time to get the controls under my belt. I have done a small amount of testing using the tutorial, and have noticed a couple of points, some of which I think have already been addressed :- 

Skills input. 
why do you disallow 1/2 points in skills? If I am attempting to mirror a PC in RPM, I can see the possibility of an odd half point hanging around waiting for their next level advance. 

Subtype not clearing if creature type is changed. 

Printing option. 
If you click the right-arrow when on the last item of a creature list, then attempt to print , you will get a blank page displayed, (problem does not appear to occur when trying to print the item before the first creature on the list. 

Bonus's for Masterworks/magical weapons. 
The Player's Manual (very end of page 114) specificly states that the Masterwork bonus does not stack with Magical bonuses, (yes I know, I think that stinks as well, paying 2000GP just to gain +1 damage!)
Damn, I knew there was something I forgot! 

I am not sure whether I mentioned this before, but as a personal wish list entry I would LOVE the ability to extensively layer the battlemaps, 
I now use PSP for my maps on screen during play, and the ability to show the players new bits of map as they turn corners or open doors, greatly improves the suspense of the game, and adds to the feel of exploring a hitherto unknown realm. 
What do you think? is that a possibility for a later enhancement? 
NickT

Things spoted since I discovered that this had not been added to the thread

1. Point blank skill should not give +1 damage when using a net

2.When you add a creature using the wizard, on the classes screen you do not appear to be able to input a level for the class in the input box at the bottom of the screen

3.How would I set up a new feat of ' Extra Rage' for a barbarian?

4.When attempting to add a skill, spell or racial template in the maintainance section I get the following errors respectively :-

tabConfig field idskill not found
tab Config Field isSpell not found
and
tabRace Dataset not in edit or insert mode.


I love Beta Testing you can spend all your time complaining and be able to justify it!

I like the Combat system, I still get lost in it occassionally but it shows great promise.

NickT


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## Luke (Apr 14, 2002)

*Re: Pre Beta discussion*



			
				nickT said:
			
		

> *
> I love Beta Testing you can spend all your time complaining and be able to justify it!
> 
> I like the Combat system, I still get lost in it occassionally but it shows great promise.
> ...




Check the other thread to see most of your questions already answered.

I'll check into these issues you mention, but the main thrust of the pre-beta is too get feedback on the new combat model (as per the supplied tutorial). I need to have confidence in the combat model before proceeding to code out the other stuff you mention.
Any comments on the combat tutorial yet? Ideas for improvement?

Thanks,


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## nickT (Apr 15, 2002)

*Battle map queries*

I have a terrible habit of writing replys to messages before I have finished reading the thread, the number of times I discover the answer to my question later on, or find I am just repeating what someone else has said more elequently, sigh  

Battlemap suggestions:-

1. when you press 'start first round' automatically order by initiative.

2. can you use different icons for the different groups involved in an encounter? ( the party and monster icons for the creature list would be fine).

3. can you use different icons(or colouring of icons), for creatures that are not active, ie dead/dying/unconcious.

4. can you highlight the creature with the highest current initiative, (this means that if you move to someone else to do a AOO you can go back to the right creature without having to check on the creature list)

5.I expected to see code for checking if a creature was in range for a melee attack etc.  Personally I see this sort of checking of moves and ranges as crucial  for any battlemap implementation, but I do accept that the coding of such is an absolute nightmare.
Are you planning anything of that type, or have I just missed the appropriate controls.

As an experiment I tried running a combat simulation with the Display options set to ' order by name', (That way I could name my creatures so that members of the party appeared together!) as far as I can make out this totally screws up the 'current creature initiative completed' code.

Am I right in thinking that the magic options have not yet been coded?

Someone suggested a list of what had been implemented and what has not, this has my vote, if nothing else it would stop me bothering you, telling you about 'bugs' that exist because the code isn't written yet!

By the by, I am very impressed with the speed with which you reply to my ramblings, I wish I could manage that sort of turn around! 

Keep up the good work
NickT


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## Luke (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Battle map queries*



			
				nickT said:
			
		

> *
> 1. when you press 'start first round' automatically order by initiative.*



Done.



> *
> 2. can you use different icons for the different groups involved in an encounter? ( the party and monster icons for the creature list would be fine).
> 3. can you use different icons(or colouring of icons), for creatures that are not active, ie dead/dying/unconcious.
> *



For the BattleMap you mean? Yes, but will need extra stability tests. Will delay till after the next update.



> *
> 4. can you highlight the creature with the highest current initiative, (this means that if you move to someone else to do a AOO you can go back to the right creature without having to check on the creature list)
> *



Done. There's an extra-wide marker underneath the currently selected creature (usually the "current initiative").



> *
> 5.I expected to see code for checking if a creature was in range for a melee attack etc.  Personally I see this sort of checking of moves and ranges as crucial  for any battlemap implementation, but I do accept that the coding of such is an absolute nightmare.
> Are you planning anything of that type, or have I just missed the appropriate controls.
> *



I think it's a bit early in RPM's evolution for that. I want a better indication of how well people even take to the combat model first. The BattleMap is optional after all, so the code wouldn't even necessarily be used.



> *
> As an experiment I tried running a combat simulation with the Display options set to ' order by name', (That way I could name my creatures so that members of the party appeared together!) as far as I can make out this totally screws up the 'current creature initiative completed' code.
> *



Simply can't switch to "by name" if you want initiative managed properly. Why do you want to see the characters listed together. From the icon pictures, it's pretty obvious which is which.



> *
> Am I right in thinking that the magic options have not yet been coded?
> *



Do you mean code scriptlets for all the various spells?



> *
> Someone suggested a list of what had been implemented and what has not, this has my vote, if nothing else it would stop me bothering you, telling you about 'bugs' that exist because the code isn't written yet!
> *



Yeah. I've started to manage a Task list in Microsoft Outlook, and am thinking about how to mail that to pre-beta testers in updates.



> *
> Keep up the good work
> NickT *




Thanks Nick!


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## nickT (Apr 15, 2002)

I am amazed at how fast you respond to these threads, you must have started composing your reply to my last missive before I had sent it  



> 4. can you highlight the creature with the highest current initiative, (this means that if you move to someone else to do a AOO you can go back to the right creature without having to check on the creature list)




As you correctly guessed points 2 and 3 refered to the battle map 
but I managed to fox you with point 4, that is also refering to the creatures on the battlemap

My feeling is if you are using a battlemap at all, it should effectively be to replace the 'Creature list' screen, while it doesn't have all the functionality of that screen you should be able to pick up all the info you need to run the combat from the Battlemap, 'execute action' screen and the log screen. There will be times that you need to check something on the 'creature list' or 'creature view' screens, but these should be kept to a minimum.

I would tend to use the battlemap as a visual aid to my players, so I would  fill as much of my screen as possible with it, to allow players the far side of the room to see. One useful addition could be large font name banners that flash up when the mouse travels over a creatures position to enable distant players to see who was who.


I  suggest disabling the 'current creature initiative completed' button when ordering by name, this could save some confusion.





> Do you mean code scriptlets for all the various spells?




yes thats right, any idea when that will be implemented, (any time you have a couple of spare months I expect  )

I will give you a little time to do some coding, answer other messages,eat sleep, work etc now and see what other pearls I can dig up
 

NickT


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## Nunya (Apr 16, 2002)

*Bugs n stuph*

Bad news,

I couldn't test the combat features of RPM this weekend because I couldn't even create the 5 characters I wanted to test with.  Most of the problems stem from a bug while adding items to a creature.  I'd be going along merrily adding items to a character when I'd start getting a message that an item couldn't be added because it already existed.  At this point the program would become extremely unstable and I suspect the DB was corrupt.

Another bug noticed was that when creating a creature with the wizard it would default to the race of the currently selected creature.  If this happened to be Elf, then the sub-race field would have "High" selected(even after changing the race to Human).  When I click "Next" to go to the next screen I get a message asking me if I want to quit to protect the DB(even if I cleared the sub-race field).  A script window would be popped up behind the other windows.  Even if I closed RPM, this partial character would be in the DB because I can never create him again(Key Violation.  Must be generating the same ID as the partial in the DB, maybe the ID generator table was rolled back while one of the others wasn't).

I tried creating each character using a fresh DB and exporting it.  I then started from a clean DB and imported all of them, but strangeness would start occurring.  The last straw for me was when 75% of the items from one of the characters disappeared after importing the last creature(again I couldn't re-add the items due to the "already exists" message).  I don't know if this was caused by the import or something different.  Another bug is that after importing a creature, I have to re-select my adventure to get them to appear in the list screen or creature screen.

Anyway, my opinion is that RPM is a bit farther away from a Beta than we thought.  If I can't enter a bunch of characters and have them work just for character management, then I can't use any of the other features either.


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## Luke (Apr 16, 2002)

*Re: Bugs n stuph*



			
				Nunya said:
			
		

> *Bad news,
> ....
> If I can't enter a bunch of characters and have them work just for character management, then I can't use any of the other features either. *




It's annoying, but not necessarily that disheartening.
Once you got in into the position of the item adding problem, you were stuck, and further playing only serves to reinforce that negative state.
The reason I made the tutorial, and made it specific, was to "keep you away" from things that could get you into trouble. The idea was to play with other features (especially import/export) after trying the combat tutorial. Those that followed the tutorial from the start without playing around, seemed to do really well.

Don't confuse a "pre-beta" stability with "beta" readiness. This is about a set of very new features that will need an entire stability regression test. As is typical with software, round 1 is about finding out if the basic idea behind the features is what's required, and then comes the stability fixes. 

On the good side, I did get e-mails of this nature early on, and have already tackled the problems. You should have already recieved an e-mail, or seen messages, about these getting fixed. 

Regards,


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## Luke (Apr 17, 2002)

*PreBeta 2 available for testers*

I've been hard at work, and the pre-beta testers are being e-mailed with a link to the latest release. I've packed all requests as reasonably as I could at this stage. There are other feature requests, but I'm a day late on my update promise already:

*Key Stability fixes:*
- You used to be able to sometimes get yourself into a broken state with adding new items/creatures, if you crashed out, or did an import. Major fix.
- Certain abilities used to cause problems with some creatures, where you couldn't move onto them in the list. Major fix.

*BattleMap*
- Action window has a "Grab BattleMap" option to merge the 2 windows together for combat. They work very well off each other this way.
- Creature colouring is done by party, so combats are far more obvious.
- A short name default makes the BattleMap much more readable now.
- !!! You can double-click on the map now to add creatures directly to that spot. If you add multiple creatures (eg: via the "List Grid"), they will be spread in a group around the spot.
- The currently selected creature is now obvious, with a white surrounding circle that shows 5' reach.
- A "Center on creature" option make the BattleMap automatically zoon in on the currently selected creature.
- As you move creatures on the map, you are told how far they've moved. Movement will result in either a "Step", or a "Movement" action, depending on how far you move.

*Action/Combat*
- Fixes with enabling the "Next" on creature actions.
- Dying creatures try to stabilize with popups where you can override the dice roll.
- Initiative/Actions buttons have been re-arranged to be more obvious, and flow more smoothly.

*General*
- CharGen: Fix of con modifiers for certain situations
- CharGen: Adding classes by "List Grid" is now case-insensitive.
- Better auto-updating between windows (List, BattleMap etc), as changes happen (create or delete creatures).

*Summary*
- Apologies to those caught out with stability issues. I've been dogged by 2 bad ones ("bad" meaning you're pretty much stuck), and I think they're fixed now.

- I'm glad there was a general call for expansion of "BattleMap" features. I wasn't sure how much peopl would use it, but the effort is well worth it.
I'm starting to see how very, very quickly encounters can now be created, visualized and played out.

** In particular, I'm very happy that masses of game rule detail is instantly available as you need it, yet it only takes a few mouse-clicks to work your way through it, whilst correctly following the game rules.
This is, to me, the most important thing about designing software to help out at the gaming table.

Regards,
Luke


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## Nunya (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: Bugs n stuph*



			
				Luke said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It's annoying, but not necessarily that disheartening.
> Once you got in into the position of the item adding problem, you were stuck, and further playing only serves to reinforce that negative state.
> ...




Heh, sorry if my post sounded a bit aggressive.  I was quite frustrated at that point because I really wanted to try it under a "real" situation last weekend.  Being a developer myself I understand what you were trying to do.  I've tried to do the same with my testers and, of course, it was kind of nice being on the other side. 

Anyway, prebeta 2 let me import the characters and I was able to start adding items to the broken guy.  Now I can run a combat.  It's just much easier working with characters I know well enough to spot problems in the proggy.

One other thing.  Your response ranks at the top as far as I'm concerned.  There are few in this industry(software) that respond as quickly as you do.  Now I know 2(no, the other one is not me).


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## CRGreathouse (Apr 18, 2002)

I'll try to do some testing and do a nice write-up for you (longer than my last one).  As you may and may not know, I'm helping Morrus with data entry - it's extremely time-consuming.  Added to working on the ENnies (not to mention the real world ), it's tough to do a good solid test.


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## Cergorach (Apr 18, 2002)

About the tutrial:
Well written, and pretty clear (i'm talking about usability, i suck at grammer, thus i don't know much about that part).
1.) Setup and screen setup is pretty simple and straightforeward. Pretty usefull to give the hotkey ith each action. I want to have a list of all the hotkeys, this would be very usefull!
2.) Quick and dirty creation of two opposing forces, everything goes smoothly. The Grid i a beautifull tool for the quick generation of an encounter, wish i had found it earlier...
3.) Combat:
	a.) Skill check: Had some trouble with this one in the first prebeta, now it works pretty well (i see you changed the layout of the Execute Action screen, looks good). I really like the ability to select multiple opponents and use the Don/Next button to quickly go through them all.
	b.) Initiative: Works well, just wish i could edit it a bit more quickly with just using the keyboard (i think tht's reallyimportant because a lot of us really hate using a mouse on your upperleg, and touchpads are not really great IMHO).
	c.) Attack: Works excellent, but how do you use Concealment and particulary Cover for AC? How do i confirm a critical? Do i have to do that manually? Any ideas to do that automatically?
4.) Battlemat: Works reasonably well for keeping track for where everyone is. But i would like to have a square grid (5'x5', or 10'x10', or larger depending on zoom), it's now 5'x10', very annoying...
5.) XP: Looks good for standard play, but we use FRCS experience rules, any idea if something like that can be implemented?

I still get some errors across the entire app, but i will have to play a bit more with it before i can say that they are persistent errors or just incidents. I'm very happy with the stability increase with this version, keep up the good work!

Things you don't want to hear but did come across:
1.) Can't seem to generate a new adventure in In-Game (it doesn't assign an ID), although  this does seem logical, it took me a few minutes to figure out. Maybe it's a good idea to  make it impossible to do certain actions in the different modes, maybe even hide the things  you can't do in each mode?
2.) HD is acting up in the Creatures Tab, it seems to count levels double (added five levels  of a prestige class to a character, Paladin 8), it read 8D10+5D10+5D10. When edited  manually, it stays good...
3.) Finally, BAB is editable! Can finally recalculate the correct BAB (for the same reason  as stated above (added the the BAB increase from the Purple Dragon Knight twice).
4.) Somehow RPM is convinced that i added the Prp twice, but the class screen only shows it  once. Deleted the entry, added it again, now works ok...
5.) Special magical weapons don't seem to have any special abilities, i took a Sunblade and  equipped it to the Paladin, it didn't have any plusses or other abilities. Had to make it  magical the normal way, but couldn't add any magical abilities for weapons (there weren't  any available to choose from).
6.) Magical abilities for magical weapons, are actually special abilities for armor.
7.) Paladins don't have Lvl. 0 spells, i adjusted the spell prograssion table in Class maintainance. I needed to restart RPM before the Update function would work for the Paladin in the Creatures window.

Lot's more to come...


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## warhookdm (Apr 19, 2002)

*Pre-Beta BattleManager Tutorial*

Luke,
     Disregard complaint 4 in my E-mail.  I found it.  After some thought , and a review of other posts... every time 1 of my PC's rolled in the threat range for a critical, they got the critical!  I will monitor this, but I suspect a bug... at low levels, most critical threats should NOT actually score a crit...also, I think it was rolling 3d8 for the longsword crits too...Now, I KNOW that's a minor bug, but it's in there...
     Again, so far this thing is MOST impressive!
                                           warhookdm


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## Luke (Apr 21, 2002)

*Progress, and EL*

Thanks to those participating in the pre-beta release!

Some testers have done an absolutely fantastic job with their reponses - even updating and correcting the supplied tutorial!

I'm getting much more focussed progress happening this way! I'm getting very, very encouraging feedback. 

I'm hard at work on PreBeta 3, which I hope to release soon. 

In particular, I'm calculating and displaying the Encounter Level (EL) for groups, so you get a much better idea of what's an appropriate encounter for your players! This is using a much more exacting and inclusive formula than you can possibly get from the books!

Regards,


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## nickT (Apr 23, 2002)

*Test with Players!!!*

Hi Luke,
            Sorry it was so long before I got back to you. I did a test of RPM last Friday, and decided to give it a real going over! I had 7 PCs, 3 NPCs on the players side fighting 15 creatures, (Ghouls) added to this I ran it on a slower machine, (500M). 
     The result was unfortunately unplayable, the screen refresh took several seconds, and I eventually had to pack it in and run manually since I had players sitting about twiddling their thumbs, waiting for the chance to attack the baddies. The situation was made worse by my use of the mouse  rather than hotkeys. However it does emphasise the need to streamline the program. My biggest concern with RPM has always been how it performed in front of a group of players, and this experience confirms the importance of just that.
All that sounds very negative, (and lets be honest it is)  but I hope that you can improve some of these points in later releases, because I still believe that RPM has the potential to be 'a really useful program'  here are some of the other points that I noticed while testing:-

1. Grab Battlemap sometimes causes the program to fall over if the map is not displayed on the screen.

2. Sometimes the weapon used field is not cleared properly, and you end up with a PC supposedly using a bite/claw attack.

3. you need a multiple targets option on the Battlemap ,(acleric was attempting to turn the ghouls)

4.When in combat you need some system to indicate if the currently displayed character has attacked and if so how many times, I found that when I was distracted, I could not determine if the creature on the screen had already attacked.

5. A warning if you are attacking a creature already dead/unconcious.

6. I found that I had to keep reinputing weapons and target information for the players, because I lost it all when they had to make a saving throw against paralysation.

7. You can attack without having a weapon/attack chosen, this will register a hit but do no damage, this is especially irritating with point 6.

Lots more to add but I have to get the kids to school.

Keep up the good work I know you will get this licked!

NickT


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## Luke (Apr 23, 2002)

*Re: Test with Players!!!*



			
				nickT said:
			
		

> *the screen refresh took several seconds*
> I have been able to identify several bottlenecks and greatly sped them up. It should make a particular difference on your slower machine.
> There will also be certain optimizations that I will probably leave right until the full beta, when features are nailed down.
> 
> ...


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## nickT (Apr 23, 2002)

Crumbs Luke don't you ever sleep!

Whatever time I send a message, you seem to reply in minutes, I thought the 12hr time difference would have had much more affect on response times by you 



> Everything is optional, but if you use the Initiative/round buttons correctly, you don't need to remember anything. The "Start First Round", "Select Current Initiative Creature", "Current Creature Done", and "Next Round" buttons do all that you need.




I am fairly obviously doing something wrong then! I will look into it.

Back from taking kids to school, so on with my list.

1. Distance moved should give a cumulative value, (with the option of resetting/zeroising), to allow you to move round objects on the map. (i.e.  15ft to the corner and then a further 5ft along the corner.)

2. Heal option. Is this fully implemented yet? note the mispelling
Teat Calthrop wound, (Very freudian  )

2. Tried to add item to Jamis created Character ands sometimes got 'Couldn't add Item already exists?' message.  (Sometimes! that word is the bane of a programmer's life)

3. Could you implement a 'right click' option on  creatures on the battlemap, to display hitpoints and status. I had a situation where a halfling bowman was looking for the weakest ghouls to pick them off, and I had to check a creatures number and refer back to the list to determine how injured they were.

4.When clicking to select a  target it is possible to move it accidentally.

5. You will need some option of altering the creature colours on the battlemap to avoid colour clashes with the background.

6. option of other picture formats in addition to BMP, especially JPEG and GIF.

7. Give the saving throw screen the option of calling the condition set up screen, so I can attempt a saving throw against paralysation and then set up the condition if I fail. Also allow the setting of the rounds timer on conditions. (I don't know whether the last has been done, but I couldn't work out how to set the number of rounds paralysed if it has!)

8. Maintainance.
      I was in the Maintainance 'Players' section, and highlighted all the players in preparation to deleting them, but when I clicked on the delete key I only managed to delete the last player selected.

9. After exporting the creature list, I found that I was now listing all creatures, while the display options stated that I was displaying only those in the current adventure. clicking on the current adventure option and reapplying it solved this problem. but I have found a similar fault with the display options in several different places.

10. Having used the program with players I feel the need for marking 'Dead/unconcious' creatures on the map even more keenly, if you could use transparency to give them a ghostly look, it would be terrific.

I am glad that my last message full of doom and gloom did not dishearten you, I was quite worried that you would read that and decide to 'jack it all in'. I feel that it would be a great loss if you didn't carry on with RPM.

I will go over my previous notes and make a list of things I have pointed out that are still outstanding, I realise that some of them, will not be implemented in the near future, (some of them most likely never) , but if I do that I can keep straight what I have said and we won't overlook a bug we have already identified.

Cheers NickT


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## Luke (Apr 24, 2002)

nickT said:
			
		

> *Crumbs Luke don't you ever sleep!
> 
> Whatever time I send a message, you seem to reply in minutes, I thought the 12hr time difference would have had much more affect on response times by you
> *



Is this better? Night-time is when I get to program on RPM.

*



			1. Distance moved should give a cumulative value, (with the option of resetting/zeroising), to allow you to move round objects on the map. (i.e.  15ft to the corner and then a further 5ft along the corner.)
		
Click to expand...


*You people really do want everything for nothing! 
What you're asking for would require me to work out the cumulative distance for each mouse movement. It would be useful, for skirting around areas, but it's a "future" feature that I wont do for a while.

*



			2. Heal option. Is this fully implemented yet? note the mispelling
Teat Calthrop wound, (Very freudian  )
		
Click to expand...


*Yep. A successful heal now automatically changes the target's "Dying" condition to "Stabilized".

*



			2. Tried to add item to Jamis created Character ands sometimes got 'Couldn't add Item already exists?' message.  (Sometimes! that word is the bane of a programmer's life)
		
Click to expand...


*Known issue. Think it's been fixed now.

*



			3. Could you implement a 'right click' option on  creatures on the battlemap, to display hitpoints and status. I had a situation where a halfling bowman was looking for the weakest ghouls to pick them off, and I had to check a creatures number and refer back to the list to determine how injured they were.
		
Click to expand...


*Still clunky. I'm currently experimentting with a status window that simply updates the name/Active/Hp as you move the mouse over creatures.

*



			4.When clicking to select a  target it is possible to move it accidentally.
		
Click to expand...


*Will look into it.

*



			5. You will need some option of altering the creature colours on the battlemap to avoid colour clashes with the background.
		
Click to expand...


*So you're using proper maps with this? This gets hard. I'll think on it some.

*



			6. option of other picture formats in addition to BMP, especially JPEG and GIF.
		
Click to expand...


*Pthffft!!!
Have you tried simple cut and paste? Windows already knows how to convert these. If you [Ctlr-C] on your JPEG/GIF/whatever, then "paste" into the map, it should work.

*



			7. Give the saving throw screen the option of calling the condition set up screen, so I can attempt a saving throw against paralysation and then set up the condition if I fail. Also allow the setting of the rounds timer on conditions. (I don't know whether the last has been done, but I couldn't work out how to set the number of rounds paralysed if it has!)
		
Click to expand...


*Hmmm. Somebody's thinking! That save idea sounds good.
The timer stuff is basically all there, but unfinished. I think it's got a pretty good design design behind. The acid test I have to date is that a monk's stunning blow must deliver the "Stunned" condition to the target, until _the same initiative point in the next round_.

*



			8. Maintainance.
      I was in the Maintainance 'Players' section, and highlighted all the players in preparation to deleting them, but when I clicked on the delete key I only managed to delete the last player selected.
		
Click to expand...


*Correct. There is no general ability to multi-select items in a list, then delete them. The Multi-delete on the Creature List is a special right-click option.

*



			9. After exporting the creature list, I found that I was now listing all creatures, while the display options stated that I was displaying only those in the current adventure. clicking on the current adventure option and reapplying it solved this problem. but I have found a similar fault with the display options in several different places.
		
Click to expand...


*Will look into it.

*



			10. Having used the program with players I feel the need for marking 'Dead/unconcious' creatures on the map even more keenly, if you could use transparency to give them a ghostly look, it would be terrific.
		
Click to expand...


*But them you'll confuse them with ethereal creatures. Seriously, It is important, and I'll probably start drawing "Inactive" creatures in blue.

*



			I am glad that my last message full of doom and gloom did not dishearten you, I was quite worried that you would read that and decide to 'jack it all in'. I feel that it would be a great loss if you didn't carry on with RPM.
		
Click to expand...


*Ho ho ho! I've put a year into this so far, and in the big picture, the points you mention are really quite minor. Whilst there's always the chance that life's priorities may change, and I decide that spending so much time on something that 95% od downloaders never bother to provide feedback on isn't worth it, I'd like to see it "finished".

Regards,
Luke


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## Ds Da Man (Apr 24, 2002)

Just wanted to give feedback and say I cant wait till finished project complete. You have an awesome program, friend!


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## toe (Apr 25, 2002)

*Downloading*

Thanks Luke for letting me test this program, i'm currently downloading it. 

Just wondering does this prog allow home made classes. or other 2nd ed classes ie arcane archer.

we are using three non 3rd ed classes in our two games now.

i'll get back on and post a few questions more once i get in and have a go.

Tony.


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## kilthar (Apr 25, 2002)

*Weapon Creation*

Only had a brief look at program thus far....

I noticed when creating weapons, there was no selection for weapons made with special materials. i.e. Silver, Adamantine, Mithral, Darkwood etc.

I don't know if this has been discussed at all (my apologies if it has)


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## bloodymage (Apr 27, 2002)

*RPM Pre-Beta*

Just downloaded the Pre-Beta a coupla days ago. Played around with it yesterday, started going thru the tutorial since you specifically want feedback on that (though I don't use a computer in-game). Got to the Spot check for Elf 3 and got stuck. Following the tutorial, the Done/Next button wasn't active. Also I couldn't make sense of which hobgoblin was supposed to be making a Hide roll. I tried half a dozen times to get it to work like the tutorial and couldn't. I got it to work (still couldn't figure out the hobgoblin thing), but didn't really know what I was doing! Luke, I think I warned you. You've got a tester here who learns by being hit over the head with a stick and trial and error (mostly error!). I got brains, but I ain't no computer guru! I'll set it up again tomorrow and see if I can fumble through it.

Aside from that, I'm still anxious to learn how to set up my campaign, adventures and encounters with RPM. Even if I don't use it in-game, the planning features are invaluable to me.


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## Luke (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: Weapon Creation*



			
				toe said:
			
		

> *Just wondering does this prog allow home made classes. or other 2nd ed classes ie arcane archer.
> *



Very definitely. I've gone to great pains to ensure that everything is configurable in RPM. Adding your own classes, items, spells, races etc etc is all part of that. I recommend you create your own "source" category, and file your campaign-specific stuff under it.
You actual script that drives the core rules is modifyable as well.



			
				kilthar said:
			
		

> *I noticed when creating weapons, there was no selection for weapons made with special materials. i.e. Silver, Adamantine, Mithral, Darkwood etc.*




As per the DMG, variations for these material types are available under the item categories of specific armor and specific weapons.



> _Originally posted by nickT_
> *the screen refresh took several seconds
> B]*



*
Nick, you should see quite a speed increase with the new release *


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## Luke (Apr 28, 2002)

*PreBeta update 3 available!*

PreBeta update 3  (PreBeta v1.2) is being released to the PreBeta testers.
Thanks again guys for your feedback, and the very positive comments.

You should find that basically any bugs reported to me are fixed, and most feature requests have been implemented. In short, expect to see it working faster and better, and if you had a problem, expect to see it fixed. Otherwise... let me know !

There are many little fixes, but, in summary, the main points are:

*Speed*
There were a couple of complaints where slower machines were used. This related primarily to creating creatures and preparing an encounter round. I've managed to get a *significant speed* increase.

*BattleMap*
A little update window displays the name and status of creatures as you move the mouse over them, as requested. Also, we now use a color coding ( green=party, red=opponent, blue=diasabled/dead ).

*Combat Management*
Minor issues that caused headaches have been fixed. Working your way through the rounds is now pretty slick and quick. Work has been done for proper sorting and selection of the next initiative creature, selecting and processing actions, confirming critical threats, rolling correct critical damage, and successful heal checks now turn "Dying" creatures "Stable" (a window also pops up confirming their own chance to stabilize between rounds, or lose 1hp).

*Groups*
A highly accurate and comprehensive algorithm now calculates the EL (encounter level) of groups. This works much better than the DMG table, which is very limited. Very useful when preparing an appropriately difficult encounter for the party!

*Top Recommendation*
Whether preparing an adventure, or playing in-game, get used to making double-clicks on the BattleMap to add creatures, and select "By List Grid". This offers unparalled speed for quickly creaturing large encounter groups for mixed races and classes. RPM will "randomly" spread them on the map, ready to go!
If necessary, from there you can go and tweak any special equipment, skill, feat or spell requirements.

Regards,


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## Squadleader (Apr 28, 2002)

dam ausome betea 3 update - had a quick look at it this morn

dam love the changes, and the import feature should be very usfull

i have been getting some errors - but will look at it more better when i get home from work.

sweet work Luke


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## Ranger One (Apr 29, 2002)

*Thanks*

Just recieved the link to download, so I just wanted to take a moment (and waste a wee bit of net space) to say thank you. I'll be reading and checking out the tutorial over the next few days and should have something concrete to report towards the end of the week.  
I'll admit, my primary interest is in the character and creature generation capabilities, but I know that this is not your priority so it will go on the back burner (at least partially) until I mess with the combat applications.
This ought to be fun.


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## bloodymage (May 1, 2002)

*Finally!*

I managed to get all the way through the tutorial and finish the the encounter. Pretty impressive (RPM, not me!  ). I do have a couple of improvements to suggest (more likely I missed something!). First, though, I'm going to check the thread to see if someone else has brought them up. Back in a few.  

OK, I'm back. After going over the posts again I just realized that I probably don't have the latest update installed correctly. Someone please get out the big teaching stick! I got not popup on the battlemap with a mouse hover and everyone was red. That color thing would've prevented one of my operator errors. It seemed to me that RPM allowed my deaders to attack! They came up on initiative and if I'm remembering correctly, did damage. May be a perception problem on my part, but I'd swear those dead hobgoblins took a swing! 

Perception was definitely a problem for me on the battlemap. When I finally discovered that my adversaries were too far apart to hit each other (RPM problem or my perception?) I moved them into range. Then I couldn't tell who was who. If I had had the colors I could have differentiated between elves and hobgoblins but the text scripts were overlapping making it impossible to tell which text went with what dot.

Well those are the things that reached out and grabbed me. Even in my ineptness I was truly impressed with what RPM could do (and wishing I could figure out how to do it!   ) I don't know how many times I said wow! as I was experimenting with it.


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## Luke (May 1, 2002)

*Re: Finally!*



			
				bloodymage said:
			
		

> *It seemed to me that RPM allowed my deaders to attack! They came up on initiative and if I'm remembering correctly, did damage. May be a perception problem on my part, but I'd swear those dead hobgoblins took a swing!
> *



You can't even trust a dead hobgoblin  Once a craeture is incapacitated, they'll turn blue on the map, and they will go to the end of the initiative list, where they won't even be considered for an action after the "Get Next Creature" initiative option.

*



			When I finally discovered that my adversaries were too far apart to hit each other (RPM problem or my perception?) I moved them into range. Then I couldn't tell who was who. If I had had the colors I could have differentiated between elves and hobgoblins but the text scripts were overlapping making it impossible to tell which text went with what dot.
		
Click to expand...


*In the latest version the elves should clearly be green and the hobgoblins red. You'll also find that the latest uses shortened names on the BattleMap to prevent screen clutter, with the mouse hover giving you the full name, race, classes and hitpoint story. If they're all red, possibly you didn't check "Party" as the encounter group for the elves when you created them. You can always press [Alt+E] to bring up the encounter management screen, and shuffle creatures between the party group, and the opponents group. You can also use it pull in creatures a number of ways (as a prepared group in the adventure is a popular one), but that goes further than the simple tutorial.

*



			I don't know how many times I said wow! as I was experimenting with it.
		
Click to expand...


*
Thanks. It's been a long, hard road to get it to this point.

Regards,
Luke


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## Max (May 3, 2002)

*Save a battle for later?*

Luke,

I'm half way through the tutorial, and need to leave it for a while.  This brought up the question:  can you save a combat so that you can return later and finish it?

Computers crash, people have to leave early, etc.  I'd hate to be half way through a huge battle, only to have my computer crash and lose all that information that was generated.  Or, the game time is up for the week, and the battle needs to be finished next week.

Is there a way to save your place in a combat that I am missing?  It appears that if I leave the program and come back, it retains some information but rolled new initiatives, at least.  I think it kept the hit point info though.  If you cannot save the entire battle setup, then this is my #1 feature request.

I'll save my specific interface comments until I get through the whole thing, but overall it has changed a lot for the better since I last saw it.

Max


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## nickT (May 5, 2002)

*RPM Version 1.2*

Hi Luke,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you!

here are some points I noticed with RPM 1.2
I have tried structure them so you can keep track of them rather easier, I have also sent a similar list with all my previous points to you, (with notes saying whether I think they have been addressed). Doubtless there are some points you have fixed that I have missed, or you have decided are unimportant, or for later implementation. If you could let me know which these are, I will stop nagging you about them,(Honest!)  
On with the current list, I am sure there will be more to follow, but this is just in case you were at a loose end
rolleyes: 

Function.  Combat with battlemap

Error.  Distance moved should be cumulative, (with the option of resetting), so you can move round things.
I may be missing a point but as far as I can see most of the coding is already there. You already calculate the distance when moving, which I would have thought was the difficult bit. You code a similar calculation onto a right-click, the only difference being that you add the results of each right click together, until you are informed that the ‘move’ is complete, either by  hitting an ‘end move’ key or making a left-click move. 

Current Situation  For later addition





Function  
Create Group (Version 1.2) 

Error
 Would it be possible to assign creatures to a group in the ‘group creation’ screen rather than going to the ‘show creature’ screen. 




Function  
Assigned Creatures to groups and then went straight into encounter ,(all flags set except flat footed and surprised

Error  
Came up with the database error screen,  ( Record lock failed), and I had to close and open program again. If I go via the Creature list screen it appears OK but the problem seems to be when I go directly from the ‘show creature’ screen.


Function 
 Battlemap

Error  
NPCs do not show up in the status box until clicked on once, thereafter they are visible. This problem ‘went away’ after a while, is it just during the first round? Or when they are flatfooted?



Function  
Battle Map

Error  
Paul, Kyte etc although they were flagged as not in the encounter, they still came up in the initiative list, after I hit ‘current creature completed initiative’ for a creature that appeared correctly appeared




Function  
Manage encounter screen

Error  
If you are clicking on a box (i.e.turning off flat footed) you are automatically sent to the top of the list , this is very annoying if you have a number of creatures that have to be scrolled down to, you end up going:- scrolldown ,find creature,click on box, forced to top of list, scrolldown to next creature,click on box, forced to top of list… etc.  




Function  
BattleMap

Error 
Need an easy option for creatures to swop sides halfway through a battle, presently you have to put each creature in an individual group to allow them to swap sides.




Function  
Encounter screen

Error  
is it possible to reduce the key depressions for the more used functions, (i.e. ‘current creature finished initiative ‘ from 3 (Ctrl Alt D) to just one (D)?




Function  
Battlemap

Error  Cleric did a successful heal on a ‘dying friend’ but in subsequent rounds that ‘friend’ was still dying.  If however if  you use the first aid option the patient seems to recover after a rounds delay. 





Function  
Battlemap

Error  
Once someone is stabalised  even if I go into the add damage screen and do more damage, they do not appear to be dying again.




Function.  
Creatures. Attacks

Error. 
Net  attack critical set as 21-20,0 . Is this just a ‘fix’ to avoid doing critical hits?




Function 
Add Creature wizard levelling up function. 

Error  
I am in the ‘Add creature’ screen, I input a class and level in the appropriate boxes, and then click on ‘Level up’, However the new screen needs to be refreshed before it accepts the class and levels I input on the previous screen.




Function  
Battlemap: Options: Colour


Error
  I have attempted to change the colour on this screen with no obvious result. What colour is it changing the creature or  the label?( I am assuming you mean the creature name is that right?) Neither changed! 
:

Have Fun 
NickT


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## Luke (May 9, 2002)

*Re: Test with Players!!!*



			
				nickT said:
			
		

> *Hi Luke,
> Sorry it was so long before I got back to you. I did a test of RPM last Friday, and decided to give it a real going over! *




No problem. I've got a response that also incorporates the other issues you e-mailed me:

Creature Print:
It seems to happen if you're on the last creature in the list. If you move backwards 1 and forward 1, it's then okay. I'll need to fix.

Racial Template Error:
Fixed. You making up your own class of Races?

Determining if creature has finished Round:
Basically "ToDo" is set false (already done), when you say so ( Ctrl+Alt+D ). The list auto-adjusts to that.

Recognising downed creatures:
If using Battlemap, they are Blue, plus you have the "mouse over" status showing hitpoints etc.
If no BattleMap, you use the "Targeting" list in "Execute Action", where you see the Hp and the status in the list.

BattleMap Multi-targeting:
Future feature. Use the "Targeting" list for now.

PC weapon loss for a bite attack:
Some bad mixups *used* to happen there.

BattleMap "Position" crashes:
Fixed

RPM to check range for melee attack:
Too involved for current version and usability.
You now have the big white circle to give you the visual for that.

No multiple delete in maintenance:
Correct. Not planned for a long while (and quite dangerous).

Do Saves without losing current action:
Still outstanding.

Strenous actions when staggered don't cause 1hp loss:
Still outstanding

BattleMap to calculate path moved for distance (rather than straight line from start to end):
Future enhancement.

Move reach circle with creature when moving:
Undecided about accepting this. You "lose" where you came from.

Spelling of "caltrop":
Stays. This is how it is in the official SRD.

BattleMap Colours:
Now green=party, red=opponents, blue = neutral/disabled

Tie the saving throw screen to condition set up screen:
Please explain.

Explain EL buttons:
Hints added.

Block assign creatures to group:
Future feature.

Some creatures don't update the status with "mouse fly-over":
Done. It's a good fix that also sorts out targeting actions against creatures that  aren't "fully loaded" (was a bigger problem - so thanks!!).

Complex grouping needed to swap which side a creature is on during a battle:
Esay solution. Use "Manage Encounter" to highlight any creature(s), and either press "Add to Players", or "Add to Opponents" button.

Can we reduce the key count for Alt keys in initiative?:
Not really. There is an established pattern for how keys are assigned, and the keys you'd like to change already do very established things. Remember that lots of people will use RPM for game preparation, and may never use initiative, since they don't bring a computer to the table. !Also, the "VCR" button equivalents are "everywhere".

Whilst the heal skill stabilizes the dying, Clerical healing doesn't:
You can add/delete any conditions through the Creature window's "Status" tab.
Remember that very few of the spells are currently coded to work automatically. There's only so much a single person can do!

What is the BattleMap colour for?:
The text color labelling creatures and locations.

Regards,


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## Dexter (May 10, 2002)

*First tests results*

Hi Luke,

I've tested your application a few times this week, but I will only review the features regarding your Combat Tutorial here, as you requested.

I did the tutorial 3 times, to make sure the bugs found are consistent. Ok, here we go now 

1. When you create a group of creatures with the list grid, the last CR of the creatures created doesn't show up in the grid, after the creation. No big deal, just a detail.

2. When you want to edit initiatives, it doesn't select the whole field when you click in it. This means you have to select it yourself, or click in, then delete the initiative with Backspace or Del. This is just a bit anoying and slows down the rythm.

3. When a popup window shows, like when a creature is trying to stabilize or when she threaten a critical, you cannot simply hit the Enter key to be done with it. You have to use the mouse to click on OK. This is just a bit anoying and slows down the rythm.

4. On the battlemap, creatures listed with number higher than 9 had an odd repetion of their last digit showing up. Example: number 10 to 15 showed up as 10 0, 11 1, 12 2, 13 3, 14 4, 15 5. No big deal, just a detail.

5. When selecting a target, it wont register correctly if you dont click in the left most grey area of the column. I would prefer being able to click anywhere on the line. 

Then if no target is selected, there is nothing to tell you. It would be great to see your selected target and its status more clearly on screen, as to prevent errors.

6. If you attack the next creature in initiative order and you kill it, you have to click twice on the Creature round done button to move to the next "good" creature (who is not actually dead).

That's it fo the combat tutorial! It is a very promising tool, that can help on many aspect of the game (like simulating some encounters to see if they are a match to your players. I tried to create my party players, but had trouble with level up features, skills and known spells upgrade. I'm not sure if those features are ready yet, anyway.

Keep up the excellent work. I'll wait anxiously for your next release!


----------



## Luke (May 10, 2002)

*Re: First tests results*



			
				Dexter said:
			
		

> I've tested your application a few times this week, but I will only review the features regarding your Combat Tutorial here, as you requested.




Thanks Dexter. Much appreciated.
Please feel free to report *anything*. I only ask that PreBeta testers follow the combat tutorial and report on that as a priority. Trying to come up with a quick and decent model to process 3rd edition efficiently, in all it's possible variations, is a major challenge. You can report on anything though.

1. Last CR not showing: Think it may be fixed now. I'm having trouble reproducing that.

2. Easy and quick. A quick double click will select the whole field. No need to delete or backspace.

3. Good point. There are a number of places where dialogs can pop up with a good default, so a quick enter continues immediately. 

4. Hmmm. Thanks. You've been creating some big encounters there. 

5. I can't really help the way the grid works (too easily). It's such a small inconvenience that I'll need to put it near the bottom of the list.

No Target selected: You do know if there's no target selected. if there is a target, the name is shown. If there's no target, no name is shown.
Incidentally, this is kind of deliberate. RPM doesn't *force* you to have both players and NPCs/monsters entered. You may use RPM as a DM with the players not entered, and you may use RPM as a player without the DM's creatures. In such cases, there are no targets. You can simply enter the target number in the bottom part of the Action dialog (a skill CR, an opponent's AC, an opponents opposed skill check), and still determine a result...

6. Will look into it.

If you're having issues with "Level Up", please feel free to e-mail me. Chances are I've already dealt with the issues that you'll get in the next update 

Looks like combat went pretty smoothly for you, if the issues are mostly about saving a keystroke or two (that is important though!).

Regards,


----------



## nickT (May 16, 2002)

Hi,
     I have done a brief test on my other  ,(slower), machine and there is a very definite improvement in speed.  It still needs to be tweaked a little but I suspect that it is now useable with players present, whereas previously it was so slow as to be useless. Over the next couple of weeks I will attempt to use RPM for a rather more futuristic scenario, so I will be attempting to create new monsters and weapons. Pushing the envelope of RPM to it's limits,(but hopefully not beyond!)

Let me know when RPM 1.3 is out I will be looking forward to seeing the changes you have made, it just keeps getting better and better!

NickT


----------



## Cergorach (May 16, 2002)

I encountered the following problem:

I added the following adventure: "Into the Underdark"
to the ones already present, but somehow it doesn't display in the Adv bar, i can select it in the pulldown though. It also doesn't want to display in Adventure under Creatures/Status. I've had this problem before, and i vaguely remember finding a way to work around it, but i forgot to write it down (Doh!).

[edit]
Ack!
Found out what i did wrong, but couldn't post it because the boards where bussy. I used the 'plus' in the Adventure tab to create a new adventure, this creates the problem i described above. When i use the Create Adventure option it works perfectly. Maybe a good idea to remove the 'plus' from the Adventure tab, because it doen't work correctly and i don't see any other use for it.
[/edit]


----------



## Imagicka (May 17, 2002)

*Excuse the Newbie But...*

Greetings... 

Now I am new here... so please forgive me if I mention something that has already been dealt with, or whatever...  If I should be sending to my comments to Luke directly, email and let me know, and I shall... 

I shall also include a copy of these comments in a text file attached to this message.  Now, on to the knitty-gritty. . . 

I assume that the Classes field in the Add Creatures - List Grid window will sooner or later have a drop down menu or generator to make a list of 'legal' level and class. Such as '2Ftr4,Clr5' to generate 2 fighters of level four, and one cleric of level five? Or say '3', so it would randomly generate classes which were all level three?   So, what happens when you put in no class... Does it determine the classes randomly as well, or give me an error? Oh...hmm...generates them, but now I've crashed the programme and can't get it running again, just hangs after it opens.  Let's reboot to see if that fixes the problem...Nope.

Had a problem where the Current Str and Con of a Hobgoblin I created had a Str of 11 and a Con of 13, however, their current ratings were at 31 and 33.  Attempts to remove their current value and save them...or set their value to their base value, and save the record still reset the current stat back to 31 and 33 respectively.  After deleting all the characters and starting over again, I wasn't able to duplicate the error.

Looking at the Creatures in Detail, and looking at their inventory... It would be nice if double clicking on the Item would go into the Item Details/Selected Item.  Also, it would be nice if it went to the item you had selected with the arrow, and not just the first item on the list. 

Perhaps a Right Click with not only Item Details and Magic Effects, but also Add Item and Delete Item would be a nice feature in here as well.  Also, being able to use the DEL key to delete the highlighted Item/Record would be a good idea too.  Perhaps Insert can be used to add an Item/Record.  Also, maybe even a 'Regenerate Items' so if your aren't happy with the items first listed, you can have it regenerated. 

Now, I'm not certain if you randomly determine inventory, giving the generated creatures armour and weapons, but I was thinking...What would be a nice feature is when you are generation creatures/encounters, that you can specify that each member of the group has all a particular weapon, or a particular armour.  

Also, I don't know how you generate the inventory, and the percentage chance of obtainment.  But I was also thinking that you might also want to be able to build 'availability tables'.  So you can specify that this group would have only a 5% chance of having long swords, or only a 10% chance of studded leather, and 50% of having hide.  Then you can save these availability tables, listed by say...race and location.  Elves in this geographical area would have this table, where Elves in this region would have this table.  

I know it would be a lot of work for determining random chances of possession of armour and weapons.  But I think it would be very useful for DMs who can make up availability tables for all their various regions and races, so they don't have to edit and change each encounter creature by hand.  I know from just looking at the random generated Hobgoblins I made to test out to the system...I wouldn't have them have access to what I consider weapons and armour that would be only available to what I consider to be civilized races in my gaming world, such as long swords and studded leather armour.

I keep running in bugs and flaws, but I never am able to duplicate the exact problem twice.  However, this was wasn't so lucky... I noticed that once you click on Add to Players, and Add to Opponents that is removes all the previous members in either Player Group or Opponent Group, depending on whichever button you press.  Add to Players removes all the existing members from the Opponent Group...and vice versa.  I hope this level of detail is something you don't mind...because if it is, just let me know...and I'll keep my opinions and comments down to just the aesthetics and the feel of the workings and not include bug comments or wishful thoughts on improvements, upgrades and new features.

Another thing I wouldn't mind seeing, are hot-keys for such things as arrow-keys for moving around the list of creatures, or using Shift/Ctrl in conjunction with the arrow-keys for selecting creatures in the list for deletions or whatever.  I noticed that the arrow-keys work in the list of races in the filter for when your adding creatures for the generator.  But perhaps it would be nice to be able to say hit E when your looking at the list of Races, and it takes you down to E's... Alphabetic Index Jumping Hotkeys.  Though I do like the idea of the Filter though...

Now, looking at the Execute Action form/window I amwondering why in the Targets field I have listed: "(4) Hobgoblin (3), Hobgoblin (4), Hobgob"  I assume it gets cut off for a reason?  Also, I'm wondering, does (4) Hobgoblin (3) mean anything?  But I do love the Expression Tab.  Are we going to be able to alter/change the code for Expressions later if need be?

I guess there isn't any method to remove Game Log entries/records right there and then, using say the Delete key, or a Right-Click delete eh?  I think it would be useful, in case you've made a mistake, or there is something you don't want to save into the log permanently.  Oh, a suggestion, on the Game Log, when you display Succeeded or Failed, you might want to make them into Bold, or perhaps even Green or Red text/font.  Just so they stand out a little more for quick viewing.  The same for damage, red for normal hitpoint damage, pink for subdual damage.  Or underlined...whatever you think looks best.  Also, I think I should mention here when you look back in the Game Log of the combat that you dind't include what type of attack it was be it slashing, piercing, blunt, whatever.  Nor do you mention if the attack was critical or not.  The only indication is the fact that you list two suffers damage amounts.  I think, for people who are going to run thorugh the combat quickly, then describe the combat to the players they are probably going to use the Game Log for this.  So, it would be good to mention what type of attack it was, and if the attack was critical or not.  Perhaps a 'verbose' mode might be good for this.  So you can configure the game log to list things like Criticals, Subdual/Normal Damage, and Highlighting of things like Success/Failure of attacks if wanted.

Now, when selecting the weapon, on the first round attack after targetting one of the opponents, I get a programme error: "Cannot focus a disabled or invisible window.  To protect the integrity of the database, It's recommended to quit not!"  This seems to only happen when I have the Execute Action window docked to the main form/window.

As for your comment about considering an "Auto" combat/action button.  I think that would be an interesting thing to see, and useful, and most likely wanted by users.

I noticed when a character/creature misses on his attack you have to hit the Current Creature Done button twice.

Like people mentioned before, a 'snap to' feature wouldn't be a bad idea.  Something you can turn off and on though. Also, perhaps a way to 'lock' it so that the grid lines always remain on a 5 foot increment, so they don't auto-adjust themselves.  I found when I wanted to zoom in, and look at the combat between two creatures, it would adjust so that my X-axis was 5-foot, but the Y-axis went to a 2-foot.  I found it a little hard to read.


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## Luke (May 17, 2002)

*Re: Excuse the Newbie But...*



			
				Imagicka said:
			
		

> *If I should be sending to my comments to Luke directly, email and let me know, and I shall...
> *



E-mail is easier for me to track, but you've included a text file, so fine.
I guess the question/response for items like this do mean a LOT of detail where people normally like to flick through messages. I've had a few people tell me they enjoy reading through these. Probably gives some people an idea on what goes on with a typical user/developer interaction.

*Adding Creatures via List Grid:*
- You'll see that there is an empty drop-down. I have this as a lower priority in case you forget class abbreviations.

- The level without class (to be randomly selected) is an interesting idea (not without issues).
- If no class(es) are specified, you simply get the race levels as per Monster manual. Your crash is surprising. I'll see if I can replicate it.
- HobGoblin ratings of 31 &33: Do you mean these are the Str & Con modifiers. A couple of testers mentioned this, and I couldn't reproduce. Assumed it was on a previous release. Will try some more. There is always the "ReCalculate (full)" option to fix anything like this.
- Individual equipment for group: I'll have my eye on this post release 1. The idea of adding by "List Grid" is to get you encounter groups *very* quickly. At some point of individual tweaking you're talking more the "Text/Jamis" form of entry, where you can list a whole bunch of creatures out with their full set of choices for skills, feats and classes.
What I could do is *copy* your List Grid info into the Text/Jamis import window, and let you hand-edit the results, before actually creating the creatures.
I can see that ultimately the Text/Jamis window itself would grow to have nice lists on a per creature basis. Then again, you reach a point where you select feats based on what you don't already have from your race and class features, so you may as well left it simple -> generate the simple list, then go hand-tune!
Different people will have different expectations on how much hand-tinkering is enough before doing the actual "create creatures".

*Creature Details*
- Double click for item "Details": There is a handy "Details" button, but I take your point that you do save some mouse movement between clicks  Like-wise for current item.
- Use of "DEL" key to delete records: Feel a bit uneasy about this one. Do it in one place, and I have to do it everywhere...
- Item Regeneration: This would wait on the "Generators" capability (see my website news). I don't know if you realize it, but automatically assigned equipment is as designated by the race and class. It's not about random generation.

*Generating Encounters*
- Adding to the Player or Opponent Group removed others: I think you'll find that the "others" were old data that had since being deleted, or that you were in fact (more likely) moving creatures between the two groups (ie. swapping sides).

*Generic User Interface*
Implement key-search in list grids: I am planning on this. Whilst Filter is great for doing detailed querying, a quick name search is often the most needed.

*In-Game Actions*
- Target list looks funny: Yes, there is a chopping of of space problem. The first number is the number of targets in the list. I should probably use square brackets to help distinguish it from other bracketed numbers. It's not really an issue, and you can alwayd flick to the "Targets" tab to see (or change) the targets.

-Is the Expression tag changeable? : Definitely!! You can change the way any skill, action, feat, item, spell etc etc works (not there though!). This is key to RPM being an open and extendable OGL/D20/D&D system. You can change the core rules if you want.

- Game Log features: It's fairly simplistic at the moment. I have plans to take that game log and optionally throw it into the Calendar/Planner in the long term. It'll give you the chance to browse your diary and pull out the exact details of anything you like. I've always thought that there should be a computer aid capable of keeping the full player history. Level of detail (such as amount of critical damage) is a future finesse.

- Narrating to players from Game Log: Like this idea! Also, using the type of damage (slashing etc) would help narration. I was going to say that you get that in the popup damage box anyway, but I plan on a "Full Auto" mode where you can whiz through combat (your choice - I wouldn't personally) without bothering about manual dice rolls, or reviewing windows. In such cases, the GameLog would just fill out with the detail. *Very* quick gaming.

- "Cannot focus" error: I'm beginning to wonder if your using an old release update, but I'll double-check it.

- Have to hit button twice when attack missed: Will look into it.

- "Snap-To" feature: Well, the computer gives you the automatic distance calculations that mean you don't need to restrict yourself to the artificial 5' square, but an option wouldn't hurt. I'll see how well the 5' grid can be locked down on the BattleMap component.


Handy Feedback! At least most of these should make it into the beta/realease1.

Thanks,


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## Imagicka (May 17, 2002)

*RPM Feedback*

Greetings...

Since you mentioned that people like to read these things... I'll include both a copy here and to your email, since I started writing it to you in email...

Well, your welcome... I'm more than happy to send you info and feedback on your programme. 
If you hadn't coded this thing... I know I would have.  I was starting to look into programming a VisualBasic programme for d20/OGL.  I was talking with a friend who is a gamer and programmer as well, who uses the d20 system of SpyCraft.  We were starting to snowball ideas on how we would design a system that we use primarily for D&D 3rd Ed.  but then later use it to build plug-in modules so we would have something we can use for any of our d20 game systems.  But you've definately beat me to it.  

Oh, I thought of something reading your reply.  Narrating to players from the Game Log.  Here's an idea... You might even want to have a 'Verbose' mode that would randomly generate messages from an expandable pool of descriptions.  The roll/game text would still be black on white...and if you've considered it, your 'Success' or 'Failure' message is green or red, with the damage being in bold.   

But based on the severity of success or failure in a combat situation.  You generate a sort narative in blue:
[Name] swings|slices|thrusts his [weapon] at [target], nearly|barely/successfully/decisively hitting|connecting|damaging him/her/it... etc...
So, you might have something like:
Hobgoblin (3) swings his longsword at Elf (3), just barely successfully hitting him.  Elf (3) receives a glancing blow from the slicing weapon. 

A friend of mine just for a lark once wrote a pool of adverbs, nouns, verbs and adjectives and used them in a combat simulator, which would just randomly generate messages.  It was surprisingly successful and diverse, and entertaining.   So, you would need a collection of Verbs for Slashing/Piercing/Blunt weapons, perhaps for even entangling... a list of adjectives for amount of success or failure of attack.  

It might be something cute to add in there at a later date for lazy DMs who can't think of colourful narrative of action in combat.  It might also be good for generating messages for fumbles and criticals...


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## nickT (May 24, 2002)

I produced a similar feature for a GURPS GM Helper, you need suprisingly few adjectives to make the system work. However you gain a lot if you can alter the order of the sentance as well!

(Attacker) aims a (type of hit) with (pronoun)(Weapon)which (decisiveness)(Victim)

Fred aims a slashing blow with his longsword which slices into George

(Victim) receives (Decisiveness) as (Attacker) (Possesive)(Weapon)(Type of hit) into (pronoun)

George receives a powerful blow as Fred's Longsword slashes into him

I had the added fun of critical hit location, (slicing into his left arm crippling it)

If you add enough variation to this, you can add it into the campaign diary with very little editing.

NickT


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