# Three Cheers For Content Moderation!!!



## MichaelSomething

Three Cheers For Content Moderation
					

There is no one-size-fits-all pro-free-speech answer to the intractable content moderation paradox.




					www.thebulwark.com
				




Here's an article about how difficult but important it is to have content moderation.  Since talking about how moderation is done would count as talking about how these forums should be run.  Food for thought.


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## damiller

I've never spent much time on the "free speech" on social media issue (i include forums in that group). My thoughts have basically been this: To my understanding - In america, generally, free speech is not protected on private property. The social media companies are, as far as I know not public property (ie owned by the government). So I don't consider my first amendment rights as being infringed upon when content moderation occurs.


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## Snarf Zagyg

“Three Cheers For Content Moderation!!!”

_Given all the hype, I expected more. Since I can’t give it one and a half stars, I’ll give it one star instead. Also, I didn’t order the content moderation as I was full by that point. _
-Snarf, elite Yelp Reviewer.


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## aco175

It is my understanding that these large internet companies were given protections by the government to act as the "town square" for free speech.  This helps protect them from slander lawsuits because a poster said something.  

I like the moderation on this site and feel the mods are doing a good job.  I may not agree with some of their posts, but respect it.


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## Snarf Zagyg

L]


aco175 said:


> It is my understanding that these large internet companies were given protections by the government to act as the "town square" for free speech.  This helps protect them from slander lawsuits because a poster said something.




That's not quite it . A (very) brief explainer of Section 230 of the CDA (what you are referring to).

In essence, this section was crafted as a response to a court case (Stratton), which held that Prodigy (think of it as a ... forum, like this one) could be held liable for moderating its message boards.

This is a weird distinction, but traditionally _publishers_ are held to be liable for defamatory statements- not just the makers of the statements.  In book publishing, for example, the author isn't the only one liable for the defamatory statement- the publisher of the book is, as well. The Stratton case held that, by engaging in moderation (by removing offensive posts) Prodigy was acting like a publisher. Weirdly, if Prodigy had engaged in no moderation at all, then they would not be liable.

And that's the distinction of Section 230. It's the opposite of the "Town Square."* Section 230 was a rebuke to the idea that internet platform must be foreclosed from the possibility of moderation; instead, it allowed "providers of an interactive computer service" (websites, etc.) to moderate their content without fear of becoming liable as a publisher- the goal was to allow the platforms to develop their own, innovative methods of policing content as needed (while competition would allow the continued unfettered free speech).

For the most part, it appears to have been successful. In my time, I would say that speech is more robust than it was before- there is a greater diversity of opinions. Different platforms have different moderation policies- but very few have none at all (signal to noise issues and illegal content tends to shut those down quickly). In the end, it's always the same.

People seek out the platforms that they like, and then complain about the moderation that makes the platforms that they like successful. Plus ca change.


*In fairness, it creates a Town Square in aggregate. The mistake people always make is demanding that every single forum operate as their personal Town Square.


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## Deset Gled

MichaelSomething said:


> Three Cheers For Content Moderation
> 
> 
> There is no one-size-fits-all pro-free-speech answer to the intractable content moderation paradox.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thebulwark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an article about how difficult but important it is to have content moderation.  Since talking about how moderation is done would count as talking about how these forums should be run.  Food for thought.




Those who do not learn internet history are doomed to repeat it.  Anyone else remember the discussions of moderated vs unmoderated Usenet channels?  If you don't, blame Google and their terrible handling of the Deja News archive. Because all the discussions are still there, but we've lost the access to read them.


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## Snarf Zagyg

Deset Gled said:


> Those who do not learn internet history are doomed to repeat it.  Anyone else remember the discussions of moderated vs unmoderated Usenet channels?  If you don't, blame Google and their terrible handling of the Deja News archive. Because all the discussions are still there, but we've lost the access to read them.




_Repeatedly_ learned.

This is a great summary (posted when a certain someone took over a certain social media website) of the repetitive cycle that all people understand when it comes to content moderation.









						Hey Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run The Content Moderation Learning Curve
					

It’s kind of a rite of passage for any new social media network. They show up, insist that they’re the “platform for free speech” without quite understanding what that actua…




					www.techdirt.com


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## MichaelSomething

damiller said:


> I've never spent much time on the "free speech" on social media issue (i include forums in that group). My thoughts have basically been this: To my understanding - In america, generally, free speech is not protected on private property. The social media companies are, as far as I know not public property (ie owned by the government). So I don't consider my first amendment rights as being infringed upon when content moderation occurs.











						Free Speech
					






					xkcd.com


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## damiller

MichaelSomething said:


> Free Speech
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xkcd.com



I totally forgot about this cartoon. BUT it is basically where I got my stance from, I am sure I saw it a couple of months ago, and I thought, that is an argument I can get behind, because I really think the whole "cancel culture" thing is garbage. Thank you for linking to that, I am saving it to my computer!!!


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## Morrus

I don’t think we need a debate on the politics of free speech here, folks. There are plenty of places on the internet where you can do that. Thanks!


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## aco175

Push the shiny, red button of snarky comment or be nicer in 2023.


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## Snarf Zagyg

aco175 said:


> Push the shiny, red button of snarky comment or be nicer in 2023.




_What did we all agree on?_

To be kinder on the internet in 2023.

_And what did we do?_

....BUT SOMEONE WAS WRONG AND NEEDED TO BE PWNED!


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## Gradine

Snarf Zagyg said:


> ....BUT SOMEONE WAS WRONG AND NEEDED TO BE PWNED!




...but I can't come to bed right now! This guy keeps talking about creases! _*Creases! *_


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## Snarf Zagyg

Gradine said:


> ...but I can't come to bed right now! This guy keeps talking about creases! _*Creases! *_




Look, I demand hyperrealism in my fantasy programs. Don't get me wrong- I want attractive actors and actresses and them using shampoo and being well-lit and not dealing with disease or toilet facilities or even basic things that might make me feel squeamish like references to how women dealt with menstruation back then, because c'mon, that would be political.

But I am very concerned that my unicorn show features appropriate (albeit sexy!) garb, with no creases. Heck, creases are practically the same as leaving your Starbucks coffee on camera.


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## damiller

i oppose creases in all cases!! 
*crease de résistance!!!*


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## Snarf Zagyg

damiller said:


> i oppose creases in all cases!!
> *crease de résistance!!!*




I do the laundry and I see the light
We gotta ironing board, we gotta press clothes right
There ain't no danger, we can't go too far
We gotta start getting these clothes fit for a movie star
Crease is the word

They watch our show and they just complain
Why don't they understand that unpressed clothes cause shame?
Their lips are lying, only pressed is real
We start to find right now, in all times they are ideal

Crease is the word
Crease is the word, is the word that you heard
It's got groove, it's got meaning
Crease is the time, is the place, is the motion
Crease is the way we are feeling


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## Umbran

*Mod Note:*
Folks, dragging mockery and drama between threads is in poor form.  Please stop, or you will see content moderation in action.

Thanks.


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## MichaelSomething

Morrus said:


> I don’t think we need a debate on the politics of free speech here, folks. There are plenty of places on the internet where you can do that. Thanks!



The reason I brought this up is because moderation is an important step in maintaining a healthly online community. Enworld is a good forum in part because of good moderation that keeps the balance between stopping jerks from ruining it and giving people enough freedom to speak honestly.


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## Lanefan

Snarf Zagyg said:


> I do the laundry and I see the light
> We gotta ironing board, we gotta press clothes right
> There ain't no danger, we can't go too far
> We gotta start getting these clothes fit for a movie star
> Crease is the word



There's a deep-ish cut Pet Shop Boys tune called "I Need a Lover" the chorus of which rewords wonderfully to:

I don't dare mix up the lights and darks
I'm doin' laundry
I don't care about the static sparks
I'm doin' laundry tonight, tonight

Your rewording (quoted) brought this to mind.


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## Snarf Zagyg

Lanefan said:


> There's a deep-ish cut Pet Shop Boys tune called "I Need a Lover" the chorus of which rewords wonderfully to:
> 
> I don't dare mix up the lights and darks
> I'm doin' laundry
> I don't care about the static sparks
> I'm doin' laundry tonight, tonight
> 
> Your rewording (quoted) brought this to mind.




I have always been a huge fan of the Pet Shop Boys. 

_When I look back upon my life
It's always with a sense of shame
I've always enjoyed the worst games
For every edition of D&D I like to do
No matter when or where or with who
Has one thing in common, too

It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin
It's a sin
Every game I've ever done
Every game I ever do
Every game I've ever played
Even games I play with you
It's a sin ...

EnWorld commenters taught me how to be
So pure in framing and fiction and deed
.......They didn't quite succeed
For every edition of D&D I like to do
No matter when or where or with who
Has one thing in common, too

It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin
It's a sin
Every game I've ever done
Every game I ever do
Every game I've ever played
Even games I play with you
It's a sin ..._


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