# Can you grapple multiple targets?



## Bagpuss (Jan 23, 2007)

How many opponents can you grapple at one time? If you have multiple attacks, can you grapple two or more opponents?


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## frankthedm (Jan 23, 2007)

*Multiple Grapplers*_
Several combatants can be in a single grapple. Up to four combatants can grapple a single opponent in a given round. Creatures that are one or more size categories smaller than you count for half, creatures that are one size category larger than you count double, and creatures two or more size categories larger count quadruple.

When you are grappling with multiple opponents, you choose one opponent to make an opposed check against. The exception is an attempt to escape from the grapple; to successfully escape, your grapple check must beat the check results of each opponent._


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## Bagpuss (Jan 23, 2007)

That doesn't answer my question, in fact I read that first before asking.

That covers many onto one, I asking about one onto many.

Like an giant octopus for example, as written it doesn't seem clear too me if it can grab only one opponent or eight.


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## Hussar (Jan 23, 2007)

Hrm, I would think that since you no longer threaten around you, you couldn't actually reach out and attack someone else.  To do so, you  would have to take -20 on your grapple check to be treated as not grappling.


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## phindar (Jan 23, 2007)

That is my understanding as well.  I'd be tempted to make an exception for certain creatures like giant squid and krakens, which seem to be made to grapple with multiple opponents.  I'd be tempted to make each tentacle it's own grappler, most likely considering each tentacle a Medium creature (or two sizes smaller than the base creature).


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## Bagpuss (Jan 23, 2007)

I think as written you can only grapple one opponent and once you've grappled them you can't attack (and therefore can't grapple) anyone else, you can only attack the opponent you have grappled. 

But there are countless examples of creatures that seem to break the grappling rules without any special rules to say how or why.



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Grappling Consequences
> 
> While you’re grappling, your ability to attack others and defend yourself is limited.
> No Threatened Squares
> ...




Yet the Octopus, Giant discription states.



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> An opponent can attack a giant octopus’s tentacles with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A giant octopus’s tentacles have 10 hit points each. If a giant octopus is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its *attack of opportunity* against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a giant octopus’s tentacles deals 5 points of damage to the creature. A giant octopus usually withdraws from combat if it loses four tentacles. The creature regrows severed limbs in 1d10+10 days.




But if it's grappling it doesn't threaten so can't make an attack of opportunity.   

Technically while an octopus has 8 tentacles, as soon as it successfully grapples someone with one of them he can only attack that person, since the list of actions available while grappling only list attacks on grappled opponents, not other enemies.

This doesn't really fit with the traditional fantasy view of a giant octopus attacking a ship.


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## Legildur (Jan 23, 2007)

Hussar said:
			
		

> Hrm, I would think that since you no longer threaten around you, you couldn't actually reach out and attack someone else.  To do so, you  would have to take -20 on your grapple check to be treated as not grappling.



That's exactly what I had in mind.


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## irdeggman (Jan 23, 2007)

I'd say only 1 opponent at a time.

Because when grappling (regardless of who started the grapple the actions that can be taken are limited to the following):




> If You’re Grappling
> When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.
> 
> *Activate a Magic Item:* You can activate a magic item, as long as the item doesn’t require a spell completion trigger. You don’t need to make a grapple check to activate the item.
> ...





Now a creature might have a special ability that allows more than 1 creature to be grappled at a time, but that is a special ability and not part of the normal grapple rules.


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## Hussar (Jan 23, 2007)

In the case of the Giant Octopus, since it's specifically called out, I would say that it exists as an exception, not a rule.  Giant Octopi can make multiple grapples, whereas, say, a Stone Giant cannot, unless the Stone Giant takes -20 on its attacks.  Considering that the Octopus' tentacles can be targetted, making it very much an exception, I would consider it a sort of hydra rather than a standard monster.

Granted, I am not backing this up with RAW, just my own observations, so, if someone knows better, feel free to correct me.


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## irdeggman (Jan 23, 2007)

Hussar said:
			
		

> In the case of the Giant Octopus, since it's specifically called out, I would say that it exists as an exception, not a rule.  Giant Octopi can make multiple grapples, whereas, say, a Stone Giant cannot, unless the Stone Giant takes -20 on its attacks.  Considering that the Octopus' tentacles can be targetted, making it very much an exception, I would consider it a sort of hydra rather than a standard monster.







Nope Giant Octopus doesn't specifically list that it can grapple more than one opponent at a time.  Remember that it is only a "large" creature and not a Huge or bigger one, unlike the movies.




> OCTOPUS, GIANT
> *Large* Animal (Aquatic)
> Hit Dice:	8d8+11 (47 hp)
> Initiative:	+2
> ...








> Granted, I am not backing this up with RAW, just my own observations, so, if someone knows better, feel free to correct me.




I listed the RAW on what can be done while grappling. Now you can make more than one grapple attempt, until considered grappling though. But once grappling (that is the defender lost on the opposed grapple check) .  Both parties are considered "grappled" and are now limited in their choices of actions until the "condition" changes.


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## sam500 (Jan 23, 2007)

I have also wondered about this.  There are numerous examples of monsters that seem to be meant to grapple multiple opponents (many of them plants). 
Take the Behir for example. So many limbs, and can swallow whole. 
I actually play a aberrant wild shaping druid who turns into an observer beholder which gets 8 tentacle attacks each of which have improved grab.... how many opponents can I grapple?


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## MountedCombat (Feb 12, 2016)

Actually, I'm looking at the rules as listed on D20pfsrd.com, and there is nothing about the grappled condition keeping you from initiating another grapple. In fact, there is a style, "Grabbing Style," the final feat of which says "When you are grabbing two opponents while using Grabbing Style, you can use your grapple to move or damage one or both opponents you are grappling, instead of just one."


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## Dandu (Feb 13, 2016)

I do not believe Pathfinder existed in 2007, or that it uses the exact same rules.


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## GMMichael (Feb 13, 2016)

The flaw in the thinking here is that monstrous octopi don't grapple; they entangle.  Grappling rules are for characters that, anatomically, can wrestle.

Rulings, not rules.

By the way, I highly doubt that non-monstrous octopi will attack multiple opponents.  They'll either try to eat a single opponent, or ink and flee.

For some bad action music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HNZePQosxU


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## Hussar (Feb 14, 2016)

Heh, 2007 and I was doing "rulings not rules".    Why was this necro'd?


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## Dandu (Feb 14, 2016)

So that you would have a chance to face your sins.


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## Imaculata (Feb 14, 2016)

You have to pay attention to the size category of the monster. If it's only large, then it would probably need more than one tentacle to grapple an opponent and hold him in place. This is why I always assumed grappling an opponent requires two hands, so a normal humanoid can only grapple one person at a time. Its like a wrestling match. Plus, how many people can you really focus on at a time?

If the monster is huge however, then it would probably need only one tentacle to grab a person, thus allowing him to grapple as many opponents as he has tentacles. But if this is the case, it is listed among his special abilities.


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