# +? to Skill magic items. Does a method exist?



## a-d (Apr 19, 2011)

Creating magic items that give bonuses to skills.
Does anyone know if there are any actual rules about it?

I came across this on "Wizards of the Coast" "Dungeons and Dragons" " Rules of the game" "Making magic items, Part 7:"



> *Bracers of Brachiation:* The slim _bracers of  brachiation_ grant the wearer a climb speed of 20 feet in forested  areas. The user gains a +8 racial bonus on all Climb  checks, and it can always choose to take 10,  even if rushed or threatened while climbing. In addition, while using  its climb speed to move in forested areas, the creature gains a +2  insight bonus on initiative  checks and Reflex  saving throws.​ Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, _spider  climb,_ creator must have at least 10 ranks in Climb; Price 18,400  gp; Weight 1 lb.​ The items were priced as follows:​ +8 skill bonus = 6,400 (bonus squared x 100 gp). The  skill bonus is limited to forested areas, and that would argue for a  reduction, but the bracers also grant a climb speed of 20 feet in  forested areas, so we'll leave this price alone.​



It seems to say that +1 to ? skill would be: (1x1)x100=100gp
With a building speed of 1,000 gp a day I could make something hold 10 different +1's.

Source: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a
List it came from: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg


Is this true?
If not, is there an actual one?

Additionally, if it's possible to raise stat points like intelligence to +5 using the spell Wish, how far could Wish raise a skill?


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## Wyvernhand (Apr 19, 2011)

This source suggests (bonus)^2 * 100g for skills.  Existing items like Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind collaborate this.

And no, the cap on inherant bonuses is +5.  From Wish:


			
				Wish said:
			
		

> _Note:_ An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.


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## Centaur (Apr 19, 2011)

The cost of adding mulitple little bonuses into a singel item would be a little more.  Technicaly each bonus would be 1^2*100gp but for each enchantment beyond the first added to an item, the costs are doubled.  so the items with 10x +1 skill bonuses would be 100gp + 2x9x100gp = 1900gp.

Of course this does not take into accout body part affinity, so best to keep all those 10 skils related if you don't want the cost of ballon further.


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## a-d (Apr 19, 2011)

It says it can not exceed +5 on an ability score.
Granted, it would take an ability score of +10 to grant +5 to a skill score, but the idea that a single wish is limited in adding an inherent bonus to a skill score in the same manner it is in doing so for an ability score seems...
Well it seems like it would be overkill for increasing a skill score since ability scores have a much wider impact on what you can do.

One Wish = +1 to Intelligence.
Five Wishes in quick succession = +5 to Intelligence.
Okay.

One Wish = +1 to Hide?
Five Wishes in quick succession = +5 to Hide?
Not seeing it.

But this is what the rules say?


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## Pergentile (Apr 19, 2011)

The bonus to the Skills would not be Inherent, and would not have a limit of +5, and would not be bonus' to ability scores, so disregard Wyvernhand's quote.

The real problem with this would be determining the correct slot for each skill. I would assume they would follow the +Ability Score items. So any Charisma based skill that is boosted would be a Cloak of some kind. It would be a very nice little boost early on to have a Social Cloak (+X to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, UMD, etc.)


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## Hassassin (Apr 19, 2011)

There are rules for this in the DMG or the SRD. At least competence bonuses can go as high as +10.

To make an item with +1 competence to a skill the price is 100gp. To add another bonus you multiply the lower price by 1.5 and add them. So an item with +1 competence bonuses to 10 different skills would be 100gp + 9x150gp = 1450gp.

However, most of those are bound to be "uncustomary slot limitations" so the entire cost should be multiplied by 1.5 or by 2 if you want it entirely slotless.

So the cost would be below 3000gp, which is not a very good deal compared to +2 Dex or +2 Int at 4000gp giving you bonuses to many skills and much more.

A magic item that gives +1 (enhancement) to an ability costs 1000gp and for that you'd get an item that gives +3 (competence) to a skill (900gp), so +3 inherent might be a good ruling for Wishing skill in something. It also matches the bonus from Skill Focus, which is nice.

Edit: Actually I'd probably give the wisher the Skill Focus feat if I was feeling nice and it was carefully worded. Something casual like "I wish I were a better climber" may of course transform them to a spider or whatever...


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## a-d (Apr 19, 2011)

Except in my case an item with +1 to ten different skills isn't really to give  a bonus to an existing skill. Instead it's to gain access to a skill in which I have no ranks whatsoever.

However the requirement...excuse me, apparent requirement that the crafter have at least the same skill rank as the bonus they are attempting to place into the item in question means that the DM would have to allow assisted crafting for me to craft an item with a bonus to a skill which I've no ranks in.

Such as needing the assistance of someone with at least one rank in Knowledge, Planar to create an item which gives a bonus of +1 in that skill.

Whether this would count as trained or untrained is a bit of a puzzle to me, though the bonus cap being +10 seems to hint at Untrained.

Using Wish to gain ranks in a skill however seems like it would without question count as Trained.


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## Hassassin (Apr 19, 2011)

a-d said:


> Except in my case an item with +1 to ten different skills isn't really to give a bonus to an existing skill. Instead it's to gain access to a skill in which I have no ranks whatsoever.
> 
> However the requirement...excuse me, apparent requirement that the crafter have at least the same skill rank as the bonus they are attempting to place into the item in question means that the DM would have to allow assisted crafting for me to craft an item with a bonus to a skill which I've no ranks in.
> 
> ...




None of the skill items give you ranks, just bonuses. Such a bonus won't allow you to use say Disable Device without ranks. Crafting a multi skill item does require ranks in the skills, however, and that makes sense.

I see no reason why Wish should give you ranks. If you specifically asked to have training in a skill or whatever I'd just have the spell summon you trainer. But that's just me being an evil DM.


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## a-d (Apr 19, 2011)

Does a trainer allow you to gain ranks in skills outside of leveling? Even in ones where you had no previous ranks?

Then the only way I can see Wish not giving ranks in a skill, inherent or otherwise is if the claim is that while Wish does add to abilities, which have more wide ranging effects than skills, it requires that something be their upon which to add.
So someone with no ranks in a skill couldn't gain ranks in a skill because there was nothing to build upon. And even in those cases only those skills which can't be used untrained would probably have such a stipulation.


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## Loren Pechtel (Apr 19, 2011)

a-d said:


> Except in my case an item with +1 to ten different skills isn't really to give  a bonus to an existing skill. Instead it's to gain access to a skill in which I have no ranks whatsoever.
> 
> However the requirement...excuse me, apparent requirement that the crafter have at least the same skill rank as the bonus they are attempting to place into the item in question means that the DM would have to allow assisted crafting for me to craft an item with a bonus to a skill which I've no ranks in.
> 
> ...




You can have an assistant's help to create it and thus the lack of any points in it isn't a showstopper.

However, I would not allow such an item to grant you trained status.  You'll actually have to spend a point (or two if it's cross-class for you) to get that.


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## Jhaelen (Apr 19, 2011)

a-d said:


> Using Wish to gain ranks in a skill however seems like it would without question count as Trained.



How? The spell description is quite specific about what it can grant and what not. Anything beyond the listed options is strictly the DM's choice.

Allowing the circumvention of restrictions like this is generally not a good idea.


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## Arkhandus (Apr 19, 2011)

You can use the retraining rules in Player's Handbook II to replace some old skill ranks.  You cannot gain "free" skill ranks short of Wishes with DM judgment on how to handle it.  The standard rules for Wish do not include granting skill bonuses or skill ranks, so it would be up to the DM's judgment as one of the "greater" uses of the Wish spell.  Also, Inherant bonuses are only for ability scores, not skills (at least so far as the DMG and SRD are concerned).

If you want to Wish for great skill in, say, disarming traps and other devices (the Disable Device skill), it would be up to the DM to determine how many ranks you gained or how much of a bonus you gained (of course, if you didn't already have the skill, then the wording of the Wish ought to give you actual ranks in the skill).

And yes, there's an increase in cost when adding multiple effects to a magic item.  If the item takes up a normal magic item slot, such as an amulet or the like, then +10 to 10 specific skills would cost 100,000 GP, while a slotless item (like an Ioun Stone) performing the same function would cost 115,000 GP.  Not much difference.  The magic item cost guidelines are only guidelines, anyway, and the DM always has final say on what custom magic items can be created.


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## Deset Gled (Apr 19, 2011)

a-d said:


> Is this true?
> If not, is there an actual one?
> 
> Additionally, if it's possible to raise stat points like intelligence to +5 using the spell Wish, how far could Wish raise a skill?




Note that all pricing guidelines are only, well, guidelines.  There are no 100% reliable formulas for any item creation.  This is especially true for skills, because some skills are much more valuable than others.  For example, a bonus to Use Magic Device should be priced much higher than a bonus to Use Rope.

That being said, bonus^2 * 100 is probably a good starting point.

Granting a permanent bonus to anything other than an ability score is outside of the standard capability of Wish, and falls into the "dangerous" category.  Personally, I'm just not comfortable with idea of Wish granting permanent bonuses.  If I was DMing and someone wished for this, I would try one of the following options:

-Have Wish result in a Permanent version of a buff spell that grants the requested bonus
-Give the player a magic item with the skill boost they want
-Allow the player a one-time rearrangement of their skill ranks to raise the skill they want

Note that the first two options are explicitly allowed by Wish, the third is a house rule.


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## kitcik (Apr 19, 2011)

Trading the XP cost of a wish spell to get ranks in untrained skills and become "trained" seems like a fair, even potentially underpowered use of a wish, depending on ho far the DM lets them go. I would have no problem with it.

If you had a Planar Shepherd with unlimited wishes in Efreeti form or something, the problem would be in the unbalanced supply of wishes, not in their use for skill ranks.

Besides, once you're casting 9th level spells, how unbalanced could any skill be?


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## Pergentile (Apr 19, 2011)

Using a Luck Blade (+3) to get a boost to skill points? It would take an especially arbitrarily cruel DM to penalize such a decision. I wouldn't want to be a Player in such a DM's campaign. Two wishes that grant +2 to an ability score should be able to be used to gain +1 rank in all of that ability scores relevant skills instead without penalization, if not more.


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## a-d (Apr 20, 2011)

My reasoning that the Wish spell would give ranks in a skill is based upon it's effects upon the ability "Inteligence."

I'm not certain about this next bit, but here's what I've been going by so far.
If you use Wish to add a +5 to Strength then it's as if you gained a permanent buff of +5 that can't be dispelled or taken away and you are able to use normal buff spells or equipment with buffs on them to raise the ability by another +5. These buffs however, can be taken away.

Ditto for Dexterity.
Ditto for Constitution.
Charisma.

All of these gain their bonuses and those bonuses don't have any affect on what you did in the past. Even Constitution when raised backtracks over your past as a reference to raise your hp.

But not Intelligence.
If you raise Intelligence later in the game, you don't get skill points retroactively like you gain hp.
If you raise your intelligence using a buff spell or magic item before you level, you don't gain skill points for those points in Intelligence the buffing gives.

Granted, some DM's rule that if you've had a bonus to your Intelligence for more than a certain percent of the time it took you to level then you do gain those skill points, but by the rules as written (Hey, I just got that. (RAW.)) these method's don't give skill points when you level.

This means that Wish gives more than just a buff to stats that you can build on top of.

Now let's look at skills.
As far as I can tell, skills have three stages. Unusable, Untrained, and Trained.
If a skill is Unusable, then you can't use it. (Duh. But a single rank in the skill makes it Trained)
If a skill is Untrained, then you can only use it against DC checks of 10 or under. And a single rank in the skill makes it Trained.
If a skill is Trained, then the DC against which you roll is unlimited. Especially if it's on a project where your DM rules that you can have hundreds of hired workers using "Aid Another" to give you access to truly high DC rolls. (How many people can work on building a tank or battleship?)

Wish gives nothing more an irremovable bonus to a skill which you won't even be able to use until you put at least 1 skill rank in it?
Wish merely raises the skill into the Untrained category?
Or Wish gives an inherent bonus to the skill which is considered a rank or number of ranks and changes it to Trained.

I say that while skills can have a big impact on what you're capable of doing in-game, even more in a number of ways than an ability, it doesn't have the same level of wide spread application as ability scores.

And if you're worried about myself or others using this argument to claim you should also be able to Wish for Feats, remember that skills, like abilities are right there on the character sheet. Not separated from it like Feats are.


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## Pergentile (Apr 24, 2011)

*Shrugs*
Wishes are powerful. For a DM to say giving you ranks is overboard would be slightly arbitrary of them, since it would be a mechanically sound and balanced use of the powerful spell.


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