# The cost of diamonds



## Dandu (Jun 20, 2011)

Is the cost per pound of, say, diamonds given in any book? I ask because I want to change how the material components for spells like Raise Dead are handled; instead of diamonds costing a certain amount, it will be a certain mass of diamonds. 

This has the effect of bypassing ridiculous scenarios involving the party buying small diamond of poor quality off of a merchant for 5000 gp in order to quickly raise a dead comrade. Not that people rejoining is a bad thing, but having a spell function off of a component whose effectiveness depends on how much gold the party spends seems... stupid.


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## Herzog (Jun 20, 2011)

Are you asking real or D&D references?

Since REAL diamonds become more expensive as their weight increases (as in, more than linear) a 'weight to price' for diamonds doesn't exist. (see also Diamond Size: carat weight and price)

What you COULD do is select a typical diamond (not too common, not too rare), determine how many you would need to fulfill the spell component, determine how much the typical diamond would weight (karat to pound reference is in the link as well), and use the combination as a basis for how much 'generic' diamond you would need as a spell component.


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## anest1s (Jun 20, 2011)

Dandu said:


> Is the cost per pound of, say, diamonds given in any book? I ask because I want to change how the material components for spells like Raise Dead are handled; instead of diamonds costing a certain amount, it will be a certain mass of diamonds.
> 
> This has the effect of bypassing ridiculous scenarios involving the party buying small diamond of poor quality off of a merchant for 5000 gp in order to quickly raise a dead comrade. Not that people rejoining is a bad thing, but having a spell function off of a component whose effectiveness depends on how much gold the party spends seems... stupid.




So...if a party member sold a diamond to the cleric for 5000 gp it would still work?  Has this actually ever happened, or its just something that could happen in theory?


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## jlac (Jun 20, 2011)

Dandu said:


> ...This has the effect of bypassing ridiculous scenarios involving the party buying small diamond of poor quality off of a merchant for 5000 gp in order to quickly raise a dead comrade. Not that people rejoining is a bad thing, but having a spell function off of a component whose effectiveness depends on how much gold the party spends seems... stupid.




Is this really a problem in your games? I mean, do your players actually try stuff like this to the point where you have to change the rules? The value of 5000gp gives you a way to gauge the size/quality of the diamond needed, based on the economics assumed in the books. The players can say, "Will any of the diamonds we have work?" If none of them are the right size/quality then tell them no, and when they go buy the diamond they need, it costs them about 5000gp. Maybe they can get it cheaper if they buy it from someplace next to a diamond mine or whatever. But if they spend 5000gp on a crappy diamond, the spell's going to fail. Plain and simple. It's just a money sink to presumably provide the DM some balance against the benefit of raising the dead. That's all.

Slap down stupid ideas that just amount to rules abuse. Don't let your players bully you, if that's what's happening here. Just use common sense and try sticking to the spirit and intent of the rules rather than the letter. If you just like that level of detail or must have it for some reason, are you going to go fix the other components? How does that mage keep a live spider handy for his Spider Climb spell, anyways? Does it get an AoO when he pops it into his mouth to eat it live? Is death by spell component a possibility???


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## the Jester (Jun 20, 2011)

Two diamonds of the same weight are unlikely to have the same quality, so are unlikely to have the same value.

Re: Your players spending 5000 gp on a diamond worth 500 gp- I'd let them go right ahead. However, that doesn't make it a diamond worth 5000 gp; it makes them idiots who throw money away on crap diamonds. It wouldn't work as a component for anything other than a 500 gp diamond. And if a wizard pc bothered to ask me about it first, I'd happily let them know, but if they didn't, this is a metagamey-enough play that I'd let them live with the consequences of having tried it.


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## Dandu (Jun 20, 2011)

anest1s said:


> So...if a party member sold a diamond to the cleric for 5000 gp it would still work?  Has this actually ever happened, or its just something that could happen in theory?



Theory.

I'm trying to find a tidy way to address what happens if the value of diamonds somehow changes. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the way to do it, given how diamonds are apparently priced in the real world.


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## Empirate (Jun 20, 2011)

Have you considered that the price of gold may also vary wildly from place to place, and over time? Historically, the Spanish Empire went bankrupt basically because they brought over *too much *friggin' silver and gold from the New World.


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## Dandu (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes, that is also a problem with the D&D economy.

It seems like any attempt to make heads or tails of it is going to be a nightmare.


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## Empirate (Jun 20, 2011)

One of these, you mean.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 20, 2011)

> The value of 5000gp gives you a way to gauge the size/quality of the diamond needed, based on the economics assumed in the books.



Yep.



> Re: Your players spending 5000 gp on a diamond worth 500 gp- I'd let them go right ahead. However, that doesn't make it a diamond worth 5000 gp; it makes them idiots who throw money away on crap diamonds. It wouldn't work as a component for anything other than a 500 gp diamond.




Yep.

And the quirky thing is, unlike a rule whereby you had to have a certain quality of diamond, there are all kinds of diamonds that could fit the bill: a tiny, faceted red diamond would be just as effective as a crappy rough stone the size of a grapefruit.

Which, on a certain level, may make sense.  The Enterprise used refined dilithium crystals for power...but was able to make use of raw, unprocessed dilithium found in the necklace of a very naughty princess...

_*ahem*_

All in all, that Kirk...err...quirk in the D&D rules could lead players to think outside the box (in a non-metagamey way) with some gentle prodding.


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## domino (Jun 20, 2011)

Dandu said:


> Theory.
> 
> I'm trying to find a tidy way to address what happens if the value of diamonds somehow changes. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the way to do it, given how diamonds are apparently priced in the real world.



For a real world scenario, it's relevant, but in the actual game, how much of a difference does it make?  When people need the diamonds, they're probably not going to be thinking of carats or color or clarity or cut, but will be thinking in terms of how much they're going to need to pay for the diamonds anyways.


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## Sorrowdusk (Jun 21, 2011)

Dandu said:


> Yes, that is also a problem with the D&D economy.
> 
> It seems like any attempt to make heads or tails of it is going to be a nightmare.




Speaking of which.....

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/307272-economy-dnd.html


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## Tharkon (Jun 22, 2011)

Each gemstone just has a value, set my the DM.
Example values are given in a table in the DMG. If a player pays more for it because he's generous or made a bad appraise check that doesn't change its actual value.

At least that's how I understand it, just like paying 300gp extra for a longsword would not automatically make it masterwork.


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## Nebten (Jun 22, 2011)

On a bit of a side note, there is no random way to get a 10,000gp diamond for Resurection spells (at least from the DMG tables). It caps at 8k. I just thought it was funny. 

While all treasure is ultimatly up to the DM to give to his players, I let the tables & the dice do the talking for me. If something crappy shows up, too bad, if something awesome, OMG, WTF shows up, even better. So in the end, it is up to the DM if he really wants Resurection cast in his campaign . . . muwhahahah.


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