# [Meta] Story Hour Index (development)



## el-remmen (Aug 24, 2005)

So I was  browsing through the story hour forum as I usually do. . .

I only have a couple of stories I follow regularly, but I like to check in randomly on this one or that one - read the most recent installment or some random section and see if I like it and want to start from the beginning, and that was when I got the idea for some kind of ENWorld Story Hour Index.

I know at some point we had a page where people could upload pdf and word doc versions of their stories for download with a little description, etc. . .

But what I was thinking was a page with a listing of every story hour and some basic info about each, including (but not limited to): 



writer
setting
number of threads
start date
last update
average frequency of updates (we can do some math to figure this out)
Whether it is completed or abandoned
available as PDF or word doc?
link to rogue's gallery thread (if any)
brief description of style (epic, gritty, low-level, basic log, narrative style, first person, etc. . )
and perhaps a one or two line review by a regular reader.

How feasible is this?  Anyone willing to help collect the data?  Anyone think this kind of thing would be helpful?

If we get started I can ask Morrus to host it - or else I could always host it if we needed - and it can be updated twice a year or something.

I am just brain-storming here and throwing ideas out there - so feel free to do the same.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Aug 24, 2005)

I think that sounds like a very cool idea.  The only practical way to collect the data would probably be to have the authors submit it themselves...  Are you thinking of this  as something linked off of the main news page, or perhaps a stickied topic here in the Story Hour Forum...?


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## el-remmen (Aug 24, 2005)

Kid Charlemagne said:
			
		

> I think that sounds like a very cool idea.  The only practical way to collect the data would probably be to have the authors submit it themselves...  Are you thinking of this  as something linked off of the main news page, or perhaps a stickied topic here in the Story Hour Forum...?




I thought about authors doing it, but I was thinking of something more "complete" - i.e .compile a list of Story Hours and divide them up btwn those willing to help - so we are not waiting for the whim of the authors.

I was thinking of its own page linked somewhere - as opposed to a stickied thread - so that it formated nicely and the stories can be kept in alphabetical order. . .


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## Eeralai (Aug 24, 2005)

BardStephenFox did an index for all the Ceramic DM contests.  Would something like this be the idea with a little more detail about the story hours?   http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1719470&postcount=2


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 24, 2005)

I really, really like this idea. Though it sounds like it could be a huge amoutn of work considering the number of Story Hours out there. I might regret this, but I would be willing to help out with getting this working.

I do think a stickied thread would be a good idea, though could also double it and do it on its own page. But keeping it stickied is good so that it will be RIGHT THERE, even if stickies get ignored...


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## Piratecat (Aug 24, 2005)

They can be ignored in this case, but they'll be handy for quick reference.  That's the important thing!


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## el-remmen (Aug 24, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I really, really like this idea. Though it sounds like it could be a huge amoutn of work considering the number of Story Hours out there. I might regret this, but I would be willing to help out with getting this working.
> 
> I do think a stickied thread would be a good idea, though could also double it and do it on its own page. But keeping it stickied is good so that it will be RIGHT THERE, even if stickies get ignored...





Cool.  Okay, how many people do you think we need to get this done, and anyone want to suggest a method for going about it?  

Maybe start with asking authors to submit the info (once we settle on a format) at first and then go back to flesh it out and add whichever story hours authors did not submit something for?

As for the stickied thread, that can work, too. . . or maybe even a hack on the story hour forum page to add the link to the top. . .


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## Kid Charlemagne (Aug 24, 2005)

I'd start off by creating a page with links to the 20 (or so) Story Hours with the most views.  Possibly classify them as "ongoing," "complete," and "dormant."  I'd suggest a top-five in each category, then an alphabetical listing of all of them.


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## Enkhidu (Aug 24, 2005)

Kid Charlemagne said:
			
		

> I'd start off by creating a page with links to the 20 (or so) Story Hours with the most views.  Possibly classify them as "ongoing," "complete," and "dormant."  I'd suggest a top-five in each category, then an alphabetical listing of all of them.




I'm not sure that such a system would work for authors with one story though multiple threads (like el-remmen, for example).


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## Kid Charlemagne (Aug 24, 2005)

Enkhidu said:
			
		

> I'm not sure that such a system would work for authors with one story though multiple threads (like el-remmen, for example).




Hmmm.  Good point.  Maybe they should be listed alphabetically by Author?  That way all of any given author's SH can be gathered in one spot - Sepulchrave's stuff falls into this category.  Heck, I've got three story hours under my name.


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## el-remmen (Aug 24, 2005)

I figured each entry would have links to other self-contained story hours by the same author - but in the case of multiple threads for the same story it would count as ONE story hour.

I really don't want to rank people by views or posts because I don't want to make this into a competition, just a listing - though after this is all going we can think about maybe having a Story Hour of the Month spotlight listing at the top. . .


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## spyscribe (Aug 24, 2005)

Let me begin by saying I think this is a good idea, el-remmen.  I will also put my time where my mouth is and volunteer to help get an index on its feet.



			
				el-remmen said:
			
		

> I really don't want to rank people by views or posts because I don't want to make this into a competition, just a listing - though after this is all going we can think about maybe having a Story Hour of the Month spotlight listing at the top. . .




I think that's an excellent point, but... and I hesitate as I open this can of worms... there are more than 1,200 threads in the forum.  For perspective, of *that* number, more than 100 have zero replies.  Not all of those are story hours, but if the index becomes too large, and isn't searchable, then it becomes less useful as a tool for prospective readers.

So, should there be some criteria for inclusion?


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## el-remmen (Aug 24, 2005)

spyscribe said:
			
		

> So, should there be some criteria for inclusion?




Good point.

Any suggestions?

I think right off the bat any story hour that is older than X months with fewer than Y posts by the author should not make the cut.

As for searchable, while that might not be workable, it can be easily made into a few sortable versions (by author or by title) and divided up alphabetically, so you can just jump to the Ms, for example. . .

Oh and thanks spyscribe. . .


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## spyscribe (Aug 24, 2005)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Any suggestions?




Off the top of my head, what if thread inclusion was based on on some percentage of the overall forum? 

Such as the index will include all story hours in the top 25% of the forum by thread length (or views) and any others which have been deemed "complete" by the author even if they didn't meet that threshold.

I'm pulling 25% out of thin air here.  That's a lot of threads, but if readers can sort by some of the attributes you mentioned up top (genre, character level, frequency of updates) it's not an undoable number.  Or indexers can just start from the top and work down until the project becomes unweildly to continue or maintain.


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## howandwhy99 (Aug 24, 2005)

Hmmmm...

What about something akin to the 'review' database, but in miniature?
This way each author could potentially login, change details, and even add their own storyhour when starting out. They could even write their own blurb promoting their SH. 

I suggest this really to take the workload off the administrators who would otherwise have to rewrite the listing periodically. IME, that rarely works well in practice. This way you just need to browse every so often to see who has let their details lapse. (perhaps a finished thread?)

Plus, databases are the best option when dealing with multiple queries.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 25, 2005)

I like the reviews database-like idea for it...but wouldn't that throw more work on Michael Morris? Really think we should try to avoid that.

The hardest part is really determining what constitutes being listed in the Index. Do we list EVERYTHING? If not, what do we cut out? The problem with determining by views is that big name writers can have very few updates and a thousands of views...same with posts. Many of the posts in the 'big name' SHs, are not actually updates but instead outside comments.


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## Capellan (Aug 25, 2005)

How about separating things by "active" story hours (anything with an update in the last 4 weeks), "dormant" story hours (anything with an update in the last 4 months) and "closed" story hours (everything else).

I don't think inclusion should be based on thread length or view count, with the possible exception that an SH needs 10 actual updates before it gets listed, so someone isn't having to add every SH that only makes it to 2 updates and dies.


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## el-remmen (Aug 25, 2005)

Capellan said:
			
		

> How about separating things by "active" story hours (anything with an update in the last 4 weeks), "dormant" story hours (anything with an update in the last 4 months) and "closed" story hours (everything else).





Well, that info would be included in each story hour entry anyway, as opposed to separating it all up.  Though those categories could work.




			
				Capellan said:
			
		

> I don't think inclusion should be based on thread length or view count, with the possible exception that an SH needs 10 actual updates before it gets listed, so someone isn't having to add every SH that only makes it to 2 updates and dies.




Also, I was n't seeing this as something that would be constantly updated.  I was thinking once a twice a year, giving enough time for newer story hours to last long enough to meet whatever criteria we come up with (10 actual updates in whatever time period, or what have you) and for old er story hours to wrap up, spread over to new threads, or die off. . .


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## Lazybones (Aug 25, 2005)

Capellan said:
			
		

> I don't think inclusion should be based on thread length or view count, with the possible exception that an SH needs 10 actual updates before it gets listed, so someone isn't having to add every SH that only makes it to 2 updates and dies.



I agree that there needs to be an arbitrary cut-off in order to keep this manageable. Although using # of updates as the criteria might be abused.  I don't know if anyone would submit 10 1-paragraph "updates" to qualify, but I'm a notorious cynic; and some authors (e.g. Sepulchrave) update very rarely but post massively long updates when they do. Word count could work but it would require a bit more work on the part of the collater to judge (e.g. pasting into a Word doc and checking the count). I'd even go higher, and start with those authors (if we're grouping it that way) with >50 total updates/20,000 words to get things started, and then expand it as time permits. 

I know if I was starting this project, and I had 200 threads to categorize, I might be more than a bit intimidated. 


			
				spyscribe said:
			
		

> Or indexers can just start from the top and work down until the project becomes unweildly to continue or maintain.



Something like this to get the ball rolling...

I'd offer my help (I do a lot of this kind of stuff at work), but since Websense blocks ENWorld,   I defer to the other capable wordsmiths of the forum.


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## el-remmen (Aug 26, 2005)

Well, I have started on a sample entry, using my own story hour as a test case, seeing what info seems pertinent and how much work each one takes.

Right now I am figuring out my average post frequency.  I decided the most current thread (in multi-thread SHs) should be the one that is used (you might have been really eager and frequent in the beginning and slowed down, or vice versa) - but in my case since my most recent thread only just recently started, I decided to use the second to last thread as well.

It is actually quite interesting to see how often I posted, going thru noting down the dates of posts - but then again I love math and statistics and stuff (I'm a geek, go figure!).

One of the categories I came up with is Average Post Length - breaking it up into short, medium and long.  I don't know what criteria we will use to define those (probably word count) but I know my own tend to be much longer than say, Piratecat's, and some (like Sagiro) are in the middle.

Anyway, back to counting. . .


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## Lazybones (Aug 26, 2005)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Right now I am figuring out my average post frequency.  I decided the most current thread (in multi-thread SHs) should be the one that is used (you might have been really eager and frequent in the beginning and slowed down, or vice versa) - but in my case since my most recent thread only just recently started, I decided to use the second to last thread as well.
> 
> It is actually quite interesting to see how often I posted, going thru noting down the dates of posts - but then again I love math and statistics and stuff (I'm a geek, go figure!).



Heh, I did that a short while back, and it came out to an average of one update every 42 hours for the last 2 years. Of course, I a) have a fictional SH and b) have a very boring job with frequent slow spells.


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## spyscribe (Aug 26, 2005)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Right now I am figuring out my average post frequency...




Out of the blue, one of my readers just posted a tabulation of my average posting rate in my thread.

There must be something in the water.



			
				el-remmen said:
			
		

> One of the categories I came up with is Average Post Length - breaking it up into short, medium and long. I don't know what criteria we will use to define those (probably word count) but I know my own tend to be much longer than say, Piratecat's, and some (like Sagiro) are in the middle.




This could be tricky.  In my experience, what constitutes "short" and "long" tends to be subjective.  2,000 words that really fly by feels "shorter" than 500 less-apt ones.

*shrug* Word count might be the way to go, just as a gut-check for readers.  "Well, X-author doesn't update often, but when it comes, it's a doozy."  That sort of thing.


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## Shemeska (Aug 26, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> The problem with determining by views is that big name writers can have very few updates and a thousands of views...same with posts. Many of the posts in the 'big name' SHs, are not actually updates but instead outside comments.




I don't have a clue if I count as a 'big name' SH or not, but while I do tend to get a decent amount of commentary and chatter in my SH (and to a lesser extent my 2nd SH) thread, it gets a fairly large update almost every week. Perhaps a notation for rate of typical update might be useful?


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## el-remmen (Aug 26, 2005)

Lazybones said:
			
		

> I  have a fictional SH




Well, right there is an important category to make note of, whether a story hour is based on a game or "fictional" (they are _all_ fictional, thus the quotes   )


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## el-remmen (Aug 26, 2005)

Shemeska said:
			
		

> Perhaps a notation for rate of typical update might be useful?




That is exactly what we have been talking about the most. . .   It would certainly be one of the items.


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## Droid101 (Aug 26, 2005)

I don't have many readers, so I would like something like this to possibly get more people interested.


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## el-remmen (Aug 28, 2005)

So here is a sample entry using my own story hour.  

I am not too sure about the format, but it is justa basic idea to be tweaked.  So if people want to suggest changes or think I missed something or something is unclear, please say so. . . 

Oh, and feel free to post your story hour info in such a way, might as well start collecting _some_ data - or to post the info below in a different format you think would work better. 

Open to all ideas. . . 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Story Hour Title:* *Out of the Frying Pan*
*Author:* El-remmen
*Number of Threads:* 5 | *Links: * Book I | Book II (part 1) | Book II (part 2) | Book III | Book IV
*Setting:* Homebrew (Aquerra) – www.aquerra.com
*Started:* February 2001
*Overview:* Seeking to avoid conscription into the Kingdom of Herman Land’s civil war, the PCs flee to the Little Kingdoms, in the remote mountains of Derome-Delem, where they begin to learn that there are some things worse than war.
*Sample Reader Comment:*
_“Great characterization and tension, and the end of session 65 had that LotR:FotR feel. ‘Drums, drums in the deep! ....’”_ – Red Shirt No5  
*Status:* On-going (71 sessions of a 100 session campaign still in progress)
*Average Installment Length: * Moderate (Average Word Count: 2490)
*Average Frequency of Installments:*  Every 13 days
*Available for Download?* Books 1 & 2 in Word Doc form.
*Style: * Gritty “low magic”/low wealth presented in a narrative style with lots of dialogue. Adult themes.


*Special: * 
· “_Portal Thread_” (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=76999) provides links to all “Out of the Frying Pan” threads, and a glossary of NPCs.
· _Rogue’s Gallery Thread_ (out of date)
· “_The Story of Ratchis_” (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=50757).  Backstory for one of the PCs.
· “_The Promised Land_” (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=41733) now defunct Aquerra story hour by Rastfar.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 28, 2005)

I like the format except for one thing: The "Average Installment Length." 

Are you using certain word count lengths for each catagory? Also, it seems like another thing to add in to make it more difficult to compile if we're having to grab average word counts for all these SHs, too.


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## Funeris (Aug 28, 2005)

Good point with the avg. word count call, Ankh.  And if anyone actually had the inclination to delve through my SH trying to figure out my avg word count, well...good luck to 'em.  I can't keep track.  Some days its 600 words.  Some days its 4,000.  

I would like to know what ranges you're using for the Avg. Installment Length as well, El-remmen.  Aside from that, I think your format is kosher.

~Fune


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## el-remmen (Aug 29, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I like the format except for one thing: The "Average Installment Length."
> 
> Are you using certain word count lengths for each catagory? Also, it seems like another thing to add in to make it more difficult to compile if we're having to grab average word counts for all these SHs, too.




Well, I was just pulling something out of my ass.  

up to 2000 words = short
2000 to 5000 = moderate
5000+ = long

And for my own average I just used the last five installments I have made.  It might be better just to eyeball it - or ask the writer what they think.  It may not be a crucial category, though I know some people prefer shorter more frequent installments - so that might be a criteria by which they might choose to check out a story hour.


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## Funeris (Aug 29, 2005)

I think as long as there is a further description (i.e. saying approx. so many words per post), then that works fine.

Guess all I have to do now is send you my info 

~Fune


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 29, 2005)

Makes sense...catagories work, but its probably a good idea to post those in the first post so everyone knows the guidelines being used.

Of course, I have to say that I'm horrible at eyeballing something like that, and also way too lazy. And if I feel like that, at least a few others probably will, too...so I'm really just trying to give you a heads up. I know for my updates, I try to post at least a page(10 font, Times New Roman) every update. That kind of thing might be easier to judge than word count.


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## Funeris (Aug 29, 2005)

The problems with judging per page count are:

1.  Formats differ from person to person.  I use Times New Roman 12, double space in between every paragraph.

2.  If you're style is heavy on dialog, light on other detail...and you're double spacing between paragraphs, then you'll easily make a page without utilizing that many words.  So differences in style could throw that counting method off as well.

Personally, I think you're going to run into problems quantifing length using any method, but word count seems to have less inherent difficulties.

Just my 2 coppers.

~Fune


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## Herremann the Wise (Aug 29, 2005)

This is a really good idea. Perhaps what could be fine-tuned are the parameters for some of the variables.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Story Hour Title:* Thread Title
*Author:* Author's Name
*Number of Threads:* (example as before, each links to the actual thread in question) 5
*Links: * Book I | Book II (part 1) | Book II (part 2) | Book III | Book IV
*Setting:* Homebrew (Homebrew Name), or Printed Setting Name 
*Started:* Starting Date - Month and Year

****Number of Updates*: The total number of story updates (does not include commentary, must include actual prose).

****Overview/Teaser:* Provides a teaser of what's to come. An overview might be self-defeating for some readers.

*Sample Reader Comment:* Include any quotes and their author - up to a number of three?

****Subscribers:* A list of posters who follow the story or provide regular comments. For those few SH's cherished by so many, a simple "Enworld" the simplest description.

*Status:* Either "Ongoing", "Dormant", "Finished" or "Abandoned". Abandoned could be too negatively connotative? However it might be suitable as it is better to make the reader aware not to expect anything more from a particular thread. 

*Average Frequency of Installments:*  [Only to be included for Ongoing Story Hours]
Highly Regular (Daily), Very regular (A few times a week), Regular (about once a week), Somewhat Regular (about every fortnight to month), Infrequent (about once a month to three months). If something has not been updated for three months, it goes into the Dormant category above. If it has not been updated for a year, it goes into the abondoned category. When an author notifies that a thread is complete, it is put in the finished category.

*Average Installment Length: * This is somewhat subjective but can be easily estimated. Concise (consistently less than about 1000 words), Standard (consitently around the 1000 to 2000 word mark), Extended (consistently between 2000 and 4000 words), Highly Extended (consistently over 4000 words. I suppose the best approach is to look through the thread and see how many words an average update has.

*Available for Download?* Includes any downloadable files.

****Writing Style: * Choose one of the following styles: Character Log, DM Journal, Narrative (1st person), Narrative (3rd person, varying types which for the life of me I cannot remember; help please?). Additionally, it should be classed [general] if it is grandma suitable, [mature] if it has overt violence, swear words or adult themes. 

*Special: * EG: includes things such as:
· “_Portal Thread_” (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=76999) provides links to all “Out of the Frying Pan” threads, and a glossary of NPCs.
· _Rogue’s Gallery Thread_ (out of date)
· “_The Story of Ratchis_” (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=50757).  Backstory for one of the PCs.
· “_The Promised Land_” (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=41733) now defunct Aquerra story hour by Rastfar.

Any thoughts?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise


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## Funeris (Aug 29, 2005)

Hey Herremann,

Instead of "Abandoned", why not use "Hiatus".  Just like on TV, they may be back...but its doubtful.  I think it loses some of that negative connotation you fear.

And I love the idea of declaring the writing style.  I wouldn't want my (or your) SH read by those not interested/definitely offended by mature themes.

Also, I like your Post length description as well.  Good ideas all.

~Fune


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## Herremann the Wise (Aug 29, 2005)

Hi Funeris,

Hiatus is most likely too far at the other end of the spectrum, positively speaking. Part of me would wish to just call a spade a spade. If you haven't updated your SH in a year, chances are it's been let go. It might even encourage writers to say "hey, I'm still around, I'll update the thing so it doesn't cop the "bad tag".

"Discontinued" is perhaps the most neutral term I can think of at the moment.

And on a side note, boy you must have had some time off of work lately or a suddenly awakened condition of not needing sleep! If you keep it up, a new category of "prolific" will be required for the average frequency variable. I have printed out your story and so I'm trying to catch up but you are making it increasingly more difficult! I will provide a detailed post when I'm all caught up answering some of your writing queries. Good stuff so far though.   

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise


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## spyscribe (Aug 29, 2005)

Herremann, 

I like your qualitative measures for categories.  Neat and easy to interpret.  I have a couple comments I thought I'd throw in, mostly just trying to streamline.  (I'm quoting from your post because I like the way you structured it, not because I'm trying to pick on your comments.)



> ****Subscribers:* A list of posters who follow the story or provide regular comments. For those few SH's cherished by so many, a simple "Enworld" the simplest description.




With the reader comment(s) section as an opportunity to show-off a "back jacket" quote or two, does this become gratuitous?  Also, anyone can click on the "number of replies" link on the thread to see who has posted to the story hour and how many times.  *shrug*



> *Average Frequency of Installments:*  [Only to be included for Ongoing Story Hours]
> Highly Regular (Daily), Very regular (A few times a week), Regular (about once a week), Somewhat Regular (about every fortnight to month), Infrequent (about once a month to three months). If something has not been updated for three months, it goes into the Dormant category above. If it has not been updated for a year, it goes into the abondoned category. When an author notifies that a thread is complete, it is put in the finished category.




I like your cut-off points for dormant and discontinued, but your scale sets a high bar with a lot of different "grades" for someone browsing to keep track of.  

I'd say regular updates on at least a weekly basis probably qualify as "frequent."  "regular" for threads updating 1-3 times a month, and "irregular" for threads that either update less than once a month, or that tend to go in fits and starts.

As an aside, to try to make things easier on the indexers, what if certain statistics could be left for authors or a regular reader to submit if they choose?  Things like number, average length, and even frequency of updates.  

I mean, those are nice things to know, but they also take a lot of time to figure out, especially if you're not already a regular reader of the thread.  Outside indexers can fill in eventually for older threads whose authors might not be around the boards.



> ****Writing Style: * Choose one of the following styles: Character Log, DM Journal, Narrative (1st person), Narrative (3rd person, varying types which for the life of me I cannot remember; help please?).




Are you thinking 3rd person limited vs. 3rd person omniscient?

The only thing I might add to the listing would be a place to note game system.  I know that many readers scope through for modern, or science fiction, and finding those easily would seem to be useful.


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## Herremann the Wise (Aug 29, 2005)

spyscribe said:
			
		

> Herremann,
> 
> I like your qualitative measures for categories.  Neat and easy to interpret.  I have a couple comments I thought I'd throw in, mostly just trying to streamline.  (I'm quoting from your post because I like the way you structured it, not because I'm trying to pick on your comments.)



Hey, that's what this is all about.  
Thank el-remmen for the organisation. I just copied what he did. It's one big pot with everyone having a taste before deciding to add more ingredients or reduce the heat.



			
				spyscribe said:
			
		

> With the reader comment(s) section as an opportunity to show-off a "back jacket" quote or two, does this become gratuitous?  Also, anyone can click on the "number of replies" link on the thread to see who has posted to the story hour and how many times.  *shrug*



Good point. By the way, I did not know about the number of replies link so thank you. In hindsight, this is most likely overdoing it a little. It is pretty unnecessary.



			
				spyscribe said:
			
		

> I like your cut-off points for dormant and discontinued, but your scale sets a high bar with a lot of different "grades" for someone browsing to keep track of.
> 
> I'd say regular updates on at least a weekly basis probably qualify as "frequent."  "regular" for threads updating 1-3 times a month, and "irregular" for threads that either update less than once a month, or that tend to go in fits and starts.



Anything to simplify further is good. This would mean having the following description for update/status: Frequent, Regular, Infrequent, Dormant, Discontinued, Complete.



			
				spyscribe said:
			
		

> As an aside, to try to make things easier on the indexers, what if certain statistics could be left for authors or a regular reader to submit if they choose?  Things like number, average length, and even frequency of updates.
> 
> I mean, those are nice things to know, but they also take a lot of time to figure out, especially if you're not already a regular reader of the thread.  Outside indexers can fill in eventually for older threads whose authors might not be around the boards.



Good idea. When setting it up, perhaps a draft list could be put up for a few weeks with authors/regular readers requesting changes to be made. After this, updating is kept as a half-yearly event.



			
				spyscribe said:
			
		

> Are you thinking 3rd person limited vs. 3rd person omniscient?



They were the ones.   I just didn't have my dictionary handy at work. Are there any other writing styles that could perhaps expand this list?



			
				spyscribe said:
			
		

> The only thing I might add to the listing would be a place to note game system.  I know that many readers scope through for modern, or science fiction, and finding those easily would seem to be useful.



Good idea. While SHs could be broadly described as Fantasy/Science Fiction/Modern, I think some people would prefer to further stratify their specific world. How many different descriptions can you think of though to do this?
High Fantasy, Heroic Fantasy, Celtic Fantasy, Generic Fantasy, World Fantasy, Historical Fantasy, Low Fantasy, etc...    
There's a lot of categories if you try to dig around enough. Perhaps the way to do it is to describe this with first (a) the system used and (b)the specific style. For example, for my own story hour, it is D&D-High Fantasy. Again though, too many descriptions become redundant very quickly. Any thoughts?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise


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## Funeris (Aug 29, 2005)

Herremann the Wise said:
			
		

> And on a side note, boy you must have had some time off of work lately or a suddenly awakened condition of not needing sleep! If you keep it up, a new category of "prolific" will be required for the average frequency variable. I have printed out your story and so I'm trying to catch up but you are making it increasingly more difficult! I will provide a detailed post when I'm all caught up answering some of your writing queries. Good stuff so far though.




  I'll be waiting for your response, eagerly.  I'm not sure the updates will slow down...I've had a little extra time recently...due to a bit of a bout with insomnia....but in all actuality, I'm just trying to keep up with the likes of Ankh-Morpork Guard and a few other SH authors.  Those guys and gals that update once a day are impressive.  That's what I want to be.  

And um...as for other writing styles how about "stream of consciousness" as a type of first person?  I don't think I've seen any pure stream of consciousness on here, but you never know what will pop up...especially if I continue not sleeping  .


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## Shemeska (Aug 29, 2005)

*Story Hour Title:* Shemeska's Planescape Storyhour
*Author:* Shemeska
*Number of Threads:* Only 1
*Links: * Shemeska's Planescape Storyhour 
*Setting:* Planescape (including FR, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, others)
*Started:* Feb '04
****Number of Updates*: ... a lot?
****Overview/Teaser:* All is not well within the House of Baern. The rise of a new Oinoloth heralds upheaval within the planes of Conflict, the slaughter of the impure, and treachery and deceipt from the depths of the Pit to the highest of the Upper Planes.

So tell me... what is it you want? For you see, that is the question that drives us.

*Sample Reader Comment:*


			
				Ashy said:
			
		

> "Shemeska - I do not know HOW I've missed this until now, but consider the hook FIRMLY planted in my mouth...
> 
> I AM SO HOOKED!"




****Subscribers:* Shilsen, Gez, Ryltar, Dakkareth, demiurge1138, Fimmtiu, Primemover003, Clueless, Inconsequenti-AL, Zappo
*Status:* Ongoing
*Average Frequency of Installments:*  Regular (Weekly)
*Average Installment Length: * Highly Extended
*Available for Download?* Working on it
****Writing Style: * Narrative, *[mature]* Sweet Jesus this is not grandma safe. Violence, sex, occasional gore. Not over the top just to be over the top, but I don't water down the actions or psychology of the fiends in my campaigns.

*Specials:*

Baernaloths of The Demented

The Dire Shepherd, Tellura Ibn Shartalan

Severeth Na’Halastrian, The Wanderer

Tarsikus Ibn Meth’kultesh, The Book Binder

'The Blind Clockmaker', Harishek Apt Thul'Kesh

Jezifreth Na’Harsindrian: The Inquisitor

Daru Ib Shamiq, 'The Lie Weaver'

The Proselytizer, Koristal Il Palinthiin

Other campaign associated fiction:

'The Heart of Perdition', a tale of 'love' between yugoloths. Backstory for Helekanalaith and Larsdana.


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## LordVyreth (Aug 29, 2005)

This sounds like a good plan, though I recommend changing the of this thread into Story Hour Index Development or something, and then starting a second thread that serves as the actual index.  I'd be happy to contribute my own story hour once the criteria is finalized.  Assuming mine is large enough to warrant inclusion, send me an email or some and I'll add mine to the list.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 29, 2005)

Looking at Shemmy's post...I think we should limit it to one comment per SH. Too many makes it all cluttered and, truthfully, I just skim over that much. And, again, if I'll do it, you can bet at least a few others will, too.

And on that point, there's one other thing I want to kick in here. I like the terms used for the frequency of updates, however, I don't think they'd be the best thing to use. Wouldn't you rather read "Every day", or "Monday/Wednesday/Friday", or even "Once a Week" under updates instead of something so vague as "Frequent"? Sure, they'd be defined, but that means having to remember all these things when it'd be just easier to write the actual number of updates there with the SH itself.



			
				Funeris said:
			
		

> I'm not sure the updates will slow down...I've had a little extra time recently...due to a bit of a bout with insomnia....but in all actuality, I'm just trying to keep up with the likes of Ankh-Morpork Guard and a few other SH authors. Those guys and gals that update once a day are impressive. That's what I want to be.




Thanks for the compliment, but I've got to jump in and say that its extremely hard to update daily. I was good at it...but I've gotten so lazy lately. It ain't hard to keep up with us if we all get lazy like I am.


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## el-remmen (Aug 29, 2005)

Yeah, it certainly has to be limited to one _short_ reader comment.

As for the regularity, I still prefer and actual average because it gives a better idea (my average comes to about every 13 days - but even then I would be hesitant to say every two weeks - because a lot of times it ain't )

As for collecting data, once we figure out what exactl ywhat we want - we can assemble a team and have the info emailed to us to collate and format and edit.

I guess we can start with an excel file and keep all the info on there until we figure out the format for putting it online - or get our hands on someone willing to deal with an actual database.


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## el-remmen (Aug 29, 2005)

BTW, how can you tell who subscribes to a thread?


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## spyscribe (Aug 29, 2005)

Okay, taken what’s been said, how about something like this?

*Title:* Welcome to the Halmae
*Author:* spyscribe
*Number of Threads:* 1

*System:* D&D 3.x
*Setting:* Homebrew note 1

*Started:* February 2003
*Status:* Ongoing 
*Average Installment Length:* 1000-1500 words
*Average Frequency of Installments:* 1 per 4.062 days, (2-3 times per week)

*Available for Download?* No
*Style:* 3rd person narrative prose, with occasional winks to the underlying mechanics. note 2

*Overview:* The Halmae is a world where arcane magic has recently emerged and has not yet reached its full potential.  Some see this new power as a good thing; others are convinced it is an affront to the gods.  Although the party is usually faced with adversaries who are all too human, there are corners of the world where monsters and fey roam freely.  Characters began at 1st level and have (so far) reached 5th.  The campaign is ongoing. 

*Reader Comment:* _“The story itself is compelling, beautifully written, and wonderfully character-driven. The individual characters are great fun to read. And the campaign, in both plot and setting, is utterly exquisite… This Story Hour also makes me weep for the types of adventures I could run before my party could _teleport_, _wind walk_ and _plane shift_.”_ – Sagiro 

Special: 

Rogue’s Gallery Thread: Secrets of the Halmae, non-players only
The story hour thread also contains sidebars with additional information about the game world, its pantheon, etc.
The DM of this game (Fajitas) and player Wisdom Like Silence are former players from Piratecat’s “Defenders” game.

*********

note 1: I’ve omitted the name of the setting because it doesn’t mean anything to someone who doesn’t know the story hour already, something that’s probably true for most homebrews.  Aquerra would be an exception because this is a logical place to put the web link to further information, although that could also go under “special.”

note 2: I realize I’ve left off a [general] tag here.  Can we safely assume that anything not tagged “[mature] – XYZ content” is appropriate for a general board audience?

I’ve left off the “number of updates” entry on the theory that it is just another thing that would have to be updated continually.  Between the start date of the thread, the frequency of updates, and looking at the length of the thread itself, I’m guessing that most people can get a good enough idea how long a read they’re in for.  Maybe it would be appropriate to include for concluded or discontinued threads?

Also, I tweaked the order a bit so that summary and comments are together at the end of the entry, just so it’s a little bit easier to pick out all the nitty-gritty details in the “stat block” above.  What do people think of that, and of the summary style?  I’ve tried to keep it general and informative, rather than a hard-sell “tease,” as I know I start skimming pretty quickly over unfamiliar terms and proper names.

Thoughts?


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## el-remmen (Aug 29, 2005)

SS,

I really like the format, clean and to the point -and helped to remind me of things I've left out of my own example.




			
				spyscribe said:
			
		

> note 1: I’ve omitted the name of the setting because it doesn’t mean anything to someone who doesn’t know the story hour already, something that’s probably true for most homebrews.  Aquerra would be an exception because this is a logical place to put the web link to further information, although that could also go under “special.”




Recognizable or not, I still think the entry should read "Homebrew (Halmae)" or whatever, just because 1) it is informative, and 2) you never know when the name can be evocative or might have been mentioned somewhere else, as in. . . "Oh, this must be that story hour that so-and-so mentioned, the setting name is familiar" Or something.

*Another question is* how to do the index itself - I mean, part of me envisions links with the name of the story hour and its author that is clicked to pop-up the full entry or something like that - instead of a whole list of entries. . .


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## Shemeska (Aug 29, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Looking at Shemmy's post...I think we should limit it to one comment per SH.




Agreed, and I trimmed mine down to one comment.




> And on that point, there's one other thing I want to kick in here. I like the terms used for the frequency of updates, however, I don't think they'd be the best thing to use. Wouldn't you rather read "Every day", or "Monday/Wednesday/Friday", or even "Once a Week" under updates instead of something so vague as "Frequent"? Sure, they'd be defined, but that means having to remember all these things when it'd be just easier to write the actual number of updates there with the SH itself.




Have to agree here as well.


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## spyscribe (Aug 30, 2005)

Thanks el-remmen.



			
				el-remmen said:
			
		

> Recognizable or not, I still think the entry should read "Homebrew (Halmae)" or whatever, just because 1) it is informative, and 2) you never know when the name can be evocative or might have been mentioned somewhere else, as in. . . "Oh, this must be that story hour that so-and-so mentioned, the setting name is familiar" Or something.




Fair enough.



			
				el-remmen said:
			
		

> *Another question is* how to do the index itself - I mean, part of me envisions links with the name of the story hour and its author that is clicked to pop-up the full entry or something like that - instead of a whole list of entries. . .




Alas, with this I can help not at all. I think you mentioned sortable lists earlier, which I think would be great, but how to manage the data to do that?


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## Lazybones (Aug 30, 2005)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> *Another question is* how to do the index itself - I mean, part of me envisions links with the name of the story hour and its author that is clicked to pop-up the full entry or something like that - instead of a whole list of entries. . .



I like this idea; how about a small pop-up window, like what happens now when you click on the "Replies" header at the top of a list of threads on a forum page. Except bigger, so you don't have to do too much scrolling. Except I'd have two links, one to get the pop up, and one to take you directly to the thread. Maybe there's an abbreviated forum we could use in the main thread, 1-2 lines to pass on essential information (sort of like a stat block), and then a button to get "More Information" as a pop-up. With the name of the SH itself as a hotlink directly to the forum thread where the story begins. 

Not a coder by any means, but it's my understanding that you can do this without too much difficulty. You'd just need some sort of database to store the detailed entries.


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## The Grackle (Aug 30, 2005)

Just found this, and I think an index is a great idea.  



			
				el-remmen said:
			
		

> *Another question is* how to do the index itself - I mean, part of me envisions links with the name of the story hour and its author that is clicked to pop-up the full entry or something like that - instead of a whole list of entries. . .




I think a good way to do this is to have one post at the beginning of the thread that's just the names (and maybe the date of the last update) in alphabetical order.  Then have them linked to the post below where all the info is.  That seems like the easiest way to do it.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 2, 2005)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> *Another question is* how to do the index itself - I mean, part of me envisions links with the name of the story hour and its author that is clicked to pop-up the full entry or something like that - instead of a whole list of entries. . .




I like that idea, though I'm not exactly sure how this could be done. Are we wanting to use the message boards as is, or an outside site? I'm not sure asking poor Michael to do more coding is a good idea, as he's swamped as it is.

I could see it done with the boards, simply having the first post as the actual index and listed in some kind of order(not sure how though, will get to that in a second), and linking to all of the replies that contain the actual information.

However, the problem with this is that you're really just picking the SH based on name(or author) alone, which is essentially what we have now. I don't think the idea of a pop up or link would work, as it kind of defeats the purpose and makes the whole thing kind of useless. 

Of course, this really brings up the quest of HOW to organize things? Alphabetical by author and just list each of their SHs together? Or by genre? Or something that is escaping me as its 11:30 and I'm getting tired?


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## el-remmen (Sep 2, 2005)

Yeah, I am thinking perhaps a thread is the best way to do it. . .  Just trying to figure it out so that I don't end up doing all the work of maintaining it 

I figure it could be set up simply with a few posts at the top listing them with links to the posts below that actually hold the entry information in the format we have been talking about.

So, for example, we'd have a post listing story hours A thru G, and another of H thru N, etc. . . 

The advantage of this would be we would not have to post the entries in any kind of alphabetical order - we can post them as we get them and just have the contents at the top of the thread be in order with anchor links below. . .

Of course, we may want to try to put them in order anyway for the sake of browsing.


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## el-remmen (Sep 2, 2005)

As for order:

Alphabetically by story hour name, if the story hour is just named after the author (as in "Sagiro's Story Hour") then by the author name - It makes sense to list it by the actual name of the story hour as listed in the main thread. 

However, we could have mutiple listing in the index in the first post so Sagiro's could be listed, for example as both "Sagiro's Story Hour" and "Abernathy's Company". . .


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## spyscribe (Oct 27, 2005)

You know, since I suspect that this plan has stalled out due to technical difficulties, one thing that would be very simple to do, but still useful to browsing readers, is to encourage authors to put something along the lines of the index entry in the first post of their thread.

That way a reader who sees an intriguing title can find out story hour facts-at-a-glance, and the forum acts like its own index, no coding necessary.  Participation is completely voluntary, and all authors are in charge of maintaining their own information.

No muss no fuss.

Thoughts?


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