# Dark Knight Rises (review and discussion) [major spoilers from second post onwards]



## Fiery James (Jul 19, 2012)

I was able to attend the Canadian premiere of Dark Knight Rises last night, and saw the movie in all of it's IMAX glory.  Definitely the way to see it - the movie is huge in scope, with lots of GIANT CITY shots.

I'll be pretty much spoiler-free and quick.  Any spoilers will be the same as if you've seen the trailer or know the cast.

I liked it.  I didn't come out in love with it, like I did with The Dark Knight.

This is not a sequel to The Dark Knight.  This is a sequel to Batman Begins, set after the events of The Dark Knight (nuance!).  It's a comic book movie, but not a super hero movie.  

I don't think it'll make more than The Avengers.  It's not a "fun" film, and I honestly don't know what my kids (10 & 12) will think.  Pretty sure they won't want to watch it again.

Tom Hardy as Bane is great.  The way that Heath Ledger inhabited the Joker's chaotic charisma and psychosis, Tom Hardy captures Bane's physical presence.  He's a tank, and he just moves with confidence and potential destruction at all times.  My favourite scene is something small - a scene where he confronts someone in authority, and he simply rests his hand on the guy's shoulder.  It's calm and casual, but just the way he does it is so intimidating and threatening.

Anne Hathaway is great as Selina Kyle.  She's tough, and brash, and smart, and inhabits that moral grey area.  Batman senses decency in her, I guess because she's cute, and he's just hoping to get lucky.

It's more comic booky than The Dark Knight.  There are some story nitpicks that can (and will) be made, but it has been made with such confidence that you let it carry you through them and only think about them after.  It's the same little things like in The Dark Knight (what happened with the Joker at Bruce Wayne's apartment after Batman jumped out the window?) kind of things - you can come to your own conclusions that aren't explicit in the film.  (How did Batman get from point A to point B?  He's Batman, that's all you need to know!)

Due to its size and scope, I found it a bit more difficult to connect with on a personal level than The Dark Knight.  You don't necessarily get the point of view of the "man on the street" with this one.  I'm going to need to see it again to really digest all that happened.

All in all, a decent conclusion to Nolan's Batman trilogy, wrapping up the storyline begun in Batman Begins.


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## Jemal (Jul 20, 2012)

*WARNING: This post contains Spoilers.*
*But you should know that considering this is a REVIEW AND DISCUSSION thread*


Just got home from the midnight release in Saskatoon, and I must say it was an absolutely fantastic movie as far as I'm concerned.

Definitely not as fun as the Avengers - And before anybody tries to say it's not competing or not to compare then, etc, etc, Just face it: There was never any chance that the two weren't going to be compared.  DC flag vs Marvel Flag coming out so close together in the same summer, Both having grand movie arc setups, both the culmination of several years of planning and multiple movies.  Both EXCELLENT Movies.  No way they weren't going to be compared, so lets just do it and move on. 

Anyways, that out of the way.. where was I?
Oh yes, not as much fun as the Avengers, but it was Epic in its own right - On a city-wide scale, more up close kind of Epic than the 'Norse God led alien invasion' type of Epic that Avengers had.  Less Humour, but I think a bit more depth.

It's kind of Ironic that I'm finally getting used to Bale's gravelly forced deep Batman voice on his final film in the role, but it didn't sound as forced this time around.  His Batman's about as good as it was in the others.  There's less Bruce Wayne fun bits, but they had a lot of story to tell, so that's to be expected.. Mildly unfortunate, I always thought he was better at Bruce than Bats, but he got the job done, and he actually had a bit of chemistry going with the cat.

Speaking of...

I was very impressed by Anne Hathaway's Selena Kyle, and I would definitely not mind getting to see more of her.
.. er.. as Catwoman..
... I mean in a movie you gutter minds!
And not that kind!
(Well, ok that kind too...)

*Ahem* Moving on..

Bane was an impressive powerhouse, but I had trouble understanding some of his speech, and though I understood most of it, It felt kind of lacking.  Sure he had this big grandiose plan, but his speeches and proclamations and quips didn't measure up to previous villains - Joker, Two face, or Ra's al Ghul.
Also the fact that he was basically just following Ra's's.. Ra's'.. Following Al Ghul's footsteps diminished him somewhat.  The cause wasn't really his own.

I was dissapointed at how little Alfred and Fox there was, but that's a minor gripe.  

The 'new cop' *cough* Blake, was a great character, and I was looking forward the whole movie to his payoff, though I expected it to happen sooner..

As far as twists - I'm sure most of us saw Talia coming, and I'm not so sure that character was required, didn't serve much of a purpose other than to 'be there' and be a twist...(ing knife).

And finally the ending - I *ALMOST* bought it, and the fallout and reactions of the various characters was very solid and well portrayed.  

Also, final note - That bit at the beginning, before the movie even started, when the entire theater spent a solid minute or two booing the Twilight preview.. Priceless.


[sblock=Spoiling the pit chant]
Fish, Fish, Pa-sta!  
Fish, Fish, Pa-sta!
YOU'VE HEARD IT, NOW YOU CAN'T _*UN*_-HEAR IT!!
[/sblock]


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## Joker (Jul 20, 2012)

*Spoilers also*

*Massive Spoilers*









I was entirely engrossed throughout the length of the film.  I choked up as I realized Bruce was going to sacrifice himself.  And then you have these happily ever after scenes.  It ruins the perceived sacrifice of Batman.  The whole movie was about sacrifice and finding something to fight, live and need be, die for.  But then, you get this cop out.  That whole sequence where he's decided he's going to take it out over the bay and flies off in the distance seems completely pointless.  Because there was no sacrifice in the end.
It really felt like someone going:  "And then Batman dies.  Not.  Haha"

As much as I love the Batman series I have to say that Nolan is terrible at directing large action sequences.  It's all too regulated, it feels like it's behind the scenes documentary footage for the dvd.

Sound in this movie is awesome.  From the gunshots to the quiet moments to the singing-the-star-spangled-banner-when-other-sounds-are-muted-so-you-know-sh*t's-about-to-get-real.  It was all very well done.

Bane is cool.  I love his little quips, the way he can exude power with words and minor gestures.

The humor, while sparse, is pretty clever.  I especially liked the scene where Batman talks to Catwoman and he turns around while talking.  He then turns back to find her gone and says to himself: "So, that's what it feels like".

And finally with regards to Talia:  Worst.  Death scene.  Ever.


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## Ahnehnois (Jul 20, 2012)

It wasn't The Dark Knight.

At no point was it as gripping, as real, or as important as it predecessor. It many ways it regresses back to the feel of Batman Begins, albeit with a lot more stuff jammed in there and a lot of money spent on it. However, BB was a good movie, and I can't really say that TDKR is bad so much as it was disappointing. Better than Avengers? Yes. Okay with it as an end to Batman's story? Yes. An enjoyable movie? Yes.

I think it suffers from trying to cram too many things in. Bane, Selina Kyle, and Tate are all excellent; Blake didn't really grab me as much but still wasn't bad. But I don't think any of them was established well enough. I need more time to see Bane as a threat, more understanding of the Catwoman backstory and character, and a lot more time to explicate the state of Gotham during the revolution. These were all interesting elements, but the film didn't take enough time to sell them, for lack of having enough time in one movie.

Most audiences will forgive a few things, but I was not a fan of the nonsensical tunnels that go everywhere whenever needed, or Bruce Wayne teleporting across the world with no explanation (his movements are rather well documented in the previous film), or the nuclear macguffin, which never made sense to me (Only one person can shut it off? It's about to blow but a car crash doesn't do anything to it? Only one person can set it off?). No movie is free of these things, but there was enough to take me out of it.

I was rather pleased to see the Scarecrow back, though the major female characters were good in their roles, and thought there were some good dialog scenes, decent gags, and fun action. I thought the end for the character was a good one, though the scene in the cafe hit the nail on the head a bit too hard.



			
				Joker said:
			
		

> It really felt like someone going: "And then Batman dies. Not. Haha"



Oddly, this is essentially the same thing as happened recently in the series finale of House.

I thought that gag was kind of cheap; this movie felt comic book-y more than the first two because of this and similar things. And I agree that I did want there to be a true sacrifice. OTOH, I also was sold on this idea by Alfred. I wanted to see him have a life after Batman. I'm kind of torn on it, really.


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## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Jul 20, 2012)

I took the final scene, so to speak, as something similar to the final bit from Pan's Labyrinth. One the sad fantasy of a dying girl. The other the sad fantasy of a lonely old man. But still a pair of fantasies and thus hollow and self indulgent.


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## Crothian (Jul 20, 2012)

It was good.  I figured out who was Talia a little quicker then I would have liked.  I was hoping to see someone else take up the Batman suit since Wayne seemed to be stressing so often that Batman could be anyone.  I liked the heavy influences from No Man's Land and Knightfall.


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## Mark CMG (Jul 20, 2012)

I enjoyed it and didn't see the ending twists coming.


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## Fiery James (Jul 20, 2012)

Now that the film is released, and we're getting into spoiler territory, I thought the movie was an A-, but could have been an A+ with some tightening of the screenplay.  Here are a few thoughts:

Selena Kyle’s story: She’s after the mythical “Clean Slate” program – a software virus that has the ability to remove your identity and history from the world-wide record.  Batman needs to find out midway through the movie that Selena is after this to save her friend Holly, who is the last surviving witness that can end some criminal empire, or possibly take down some corrupt politician or big business honcho.  

This is why Batman believes she’ll fight for Gotham – she’s been doing these jobs to save her friend, not herself.  Selena betrays Batman to Bane because Bane’s informed her that HE has the Clean Slate program and has promised to remove Holly from the grid.  After Bane and Batman fight, Selena finds that Holly has been murdered by Bane’s people, which is, of course, his Clean Slate program – permanent removal.  

When Batman later returns with the thumbdrive and the software as payment for Selena helping him, she informs him that it’s too late and Holly is dead.  BUT – she helps him out in the end anyway, not because she wants the reward, but because it’s in her true nature to help the unfortunate and stand against oppressors.  After the climax, we see that Bruce and Selena use the Clean Slate virus to remove their identities and escape to a new life.

Bane’s Story: When in the prison, Batman is told that he’ll never beat Bane because it’s clear that Batman doesn’t fear death.  The absence of fear is not what gives Bane his power – it’s his ability to overcome his fear.  Bane uses extreme fear to keep himself honed to perfection at all times.  The device built into his mask not only keeps the terrible pain from the doctor’s botched surgery under control, but it also CONSTANTLY feeds Bane the fear gas that the Scarecrow used in Batman Begins.  Remember, the plant extracts that the Scarecrow used to create the toxin were grown and harvested by the League of Shadows, the very people that trained Bane.  

Bane has mastered his fear to the point that he exposes himself to the toxin constantly and instead of being afraid, is supremely in control and capable of terrible actions.  It’s not Venom, as it is in the comic, but it’s something that gives him an edge and makes him more than human.  When Batman confronts Bane at the end and begins smashing his mask, the fear gas begins to dissipate, and Batman gains the upper hand as Bane loses his edge.

Gotham’s Story: The movie was long, but I could use some extra scenes showing how the citizens of Gotham react to all that’s going on.  I would love to see snippets of Gotham under Bane’s rule.  Is everyone happy that the “revolution” has hit and the 99% have risen up?  Who joins the criminals in the looting, and who tries to retain some order in the chaos?  

I want to see desperate people trying to confronting the military at the bridge, begging to escape, and have it clear that it’s a daily ritual.  And maybe the soldiers have seemed willing to let them cross, only to have Bane’s people pop up and remind them of the terrible threat.  I know we saw some community gatherings, but I’d like to see citizens sharing food and finding ways to create new infrastructure.  It certainly looked like they’d kept garbage collection running – maybe showing people carting off waste and having some areas working together to maintain living conditions.  

I’d like to check in with the trapped police a few times, and see how they managed to survive underground for three months (and keep their uniforms so tidy).  I’d like to see Joseph Gordon Levitt working at night, patrolling the streets and keeping the decent citizens of Gotham from coming to harm at the hands of Bane’s thugs and criminals (and foreshadowing his new role in the end).  

I think those are the three main tweaks that could have been made to bump the movie up a grade point or two for my taste.  

The Selena stuff just helps us understand her character, and gives Holly a reason to exist other than just being in the background of those scenes… and then disappearing from the film.  

The Bane stuff isn’t necessary, but ties his mask into his abilities and back into the League of Shadows (“Why does he wear the mask?” seemed like an important question to shout in the first minutes of the movie… finding out that it’s just the result of bad surgery is a bit of a let down.)  

Checking in with the citizens of Gotham could have showed the decency that has come to exist in some quarters and is worth fighting for, and the darker criminal element a new Batman would have to work against.  It would show the fear that the people are living with, and then how brave they’d have to be at the end (when Matthew Modine puts his uniform back on).  You’d get a sense of what Bane had wrought.


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## Fiery James (Jul 20, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> I enjoyed it and didn't see the ending twists coming.




It's funny, because Marion Cotillard was rumored to be playing Talia right from the point she was cast, but Nolan's camp denied it.  And I knew that a young girl had been hired to play young Talia... but somehow, I forgot all of that when the movie was on and let it deliver the twist.

When they implied that Bane was the child, the son of Ras Al Ghul, I was like, "uhhh, ok. I'll go with that.  It's different, but I'll accept it."  But, ha!  joke's on me.  

Nolan just directs the movie so confidently, I just accept what I'm watching and don't think about it until after.  He's a magician.


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## Fiery James (Jul 20, 2012)

Crothian said:


> It was good.  I figured out who was Talia a little quicker then I would have liked.  I was hoping to see someone else take up the Batman suit since Wayne seemed to be stressing so often that Batman could be anyone.  I liked the heavy influences from No Man's Land and Knightfall.




Yeah, I liked the ending, but wouldn't it have been amazing if you see JGL find the Batcave... and then Gordon with the new Batsignal.  And then he fires it up, and we just catch a shadow with a cape on the roof beside him when the screen goes black?


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## GMforPowergamers (Jul 21, 2012)

I loved it. I saw talia comeing in the rain storm.  I really expected the cop to become robin, but replacement batman was cool. I felt the whole prison escape was great, and in a city underseiged I do feel the batman needs an explanation how he got home.

Like Dark Knight, this is a difinitive batman movie. I felt that the bat is very much like batman beyond batmoble.

Catwoman felt she walked right off the comic page. Hathaway won me over right from the start.

All in all 8.5 out of 10


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## RangerWickett (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm quite happy with the final scene being the new dark knight literally rising atop that platform. Smashcut to black. The Dark Knight Rises.

I see what you did there, Nolan.

James, I like some of your flavorful additions. Maybe they could have fit that in if they'd made the movie 2 hours and 50 minutes, instead of 2:44 (like we'd know the difference).

The only thing that caught me by surprise was that Ra's al Ghul was _really_ dead. I figured he'd come back again.

Yes, logically a bomb that will go off in exactly 5 months, to the point that you can have a countdown, all based on some sort of containment decay or something, doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Probably would've been better if they'd had the bomb not have a countdown normally, and Talia's device would just start a 15 minute countdown, long enough for them to get out of the city.

I liked it. And hell, I liked the cheesy happy ending. Nolan directed The Prestige, and you can't make something disappear and end up with a happy audience unless you bring it back again.

"You realize I have to kill you now? You're just going to have to _imagine_ the heat."

Great lines from Bane.


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## GMforPowergamers (Jul 21, 2012)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> "You realize I have to kill you now? You're just going to have to _imagine_ the heat."
> 
> Great lines from Bane.



"about that gun thing, I may not feel as strong about it as you"


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## Azgulor (Jul 21, 2012)

Great movie! Finally an accurate portrayal of Bane as a character.

A spectacular finale to a trilogy that understood that the best Batman stories aren't about focusing on Batman exclusively, but that it's the characters and their inter-personal dynamics with each other that are an equal share of Batman's mythos & appeal.

I also give extensive props to the number of instances of Batman-lore from the comics that are given homage in one form or another throughout the film.

And while I had my reservations about Hatthaway as Catwoman, the lady nailed it. THAT'S the best Selina Kyle I've seen outside of the comics (& Arkham City), period.

As the OP, said, this was a comic-book movie, and as such it was the best comic-book movie (or movie period) I've seen this year.  Avengers, however, was the best superhero movie I saw this year.  A quibble, I know.

It was an epic finish to the trilogy.  It wasn't better than the Dark Knight, but then I don't think it could have been -- it had a different role to play.  Batman Begins began Bruce's story, DK Rises brings the epic conclusion.  The Dark Knight, however, was classic Batman in all its glory against his archnemesis.

As I told my son, who was grappling with the "which one was best?" question, in The Dark Knight Rises, you knew Bane was coming -- you knew Bruce was going to have to come back and take him down.  In contrast, with the Dark Knight, while you knew Batman would win, everything else was largely up for grabs if for no other reason than trying to piece together the chaotic insanity of the Joker.

Great movie.  Fantastic series.


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## Mark CMG (Jul 21, 2012)

Fiery James said:


> It's funny, because Marion Cotillard was rumored to be playing Talia right from the point she was cast, but Nolan's camp denied it.  And I knew that a young girl had been hired to play young Talia... but somehow, I forgot all of that when the movie was on and let it deliver the twist.
> 
> When they implied that Bane was the child, the son of Ras Al Ghul, I was like, "uhhh, ok. I'll go with that.  It's different, but I'll accept it."  But, ha!  joke's on me.
> 
> Nolan just directs the movie so confidently, I just accept what I'm watching and don't think about it until after.  He's a magician.





I'm not very familiar with the comics and avoided casting spoilers so I was a fresh audience. That he also managed to keep some true fans like yourself off balance, says even more about the direction.  Very impressive!


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## Joker (Jul 21, 2012)

Ahnehnois said:


> or the nuclear macguffin, which never made sense to me (Only one person can shut it off? It's about to blow but a car crash doesn't do anything to it? Only one person can set it off?)




Nukes aren't particularly unstable.  They're complicated devices which can survive falls from planes.  Usually if a nuke is damaged it will be disabled, i.e. it won't blow up.


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## Jemal (Jul 21, 2012)

GMforPowergamers said:


> I really expected the cop to become robin, but replacement batman was cool.




Technically he was.. Did you catch the part where he's grabbing his gear right before spelunking and the clerk says he should use his real name 'robin'?

I was also one of those hoping through the whole movie that he'd take up the mantle before the end and we'd get to see him in the suit.


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## GMforPowergamers (Jul 21, 2012)

Jemal said:


> Technically he was.. Did you catch the part where he's grabbing his gear right before spelunking and the clerk says he should use his real name 'robin'?
> 
> I was also one of those hoping through the whole movie that he'd take up the mantle before the end and we'd get to see him in the suit.




I actually ment full cuostume (most likely more like red robin) to be a bright shining day light defender. A replacement during the no mans land then when batman came back become partners


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## Ahnehnois (Jul 21, 2012)

Joker said:


> Nukes aren't particularly unstable.  They're complicated devices which can survive falls from planes.  Usually if a nuke is damaged it will be disabled, i.e. it won't blow up.



Even if it's a minute from detonating? To be fair, I don't really understand how these things work, and it may very well be scientifically accurate, it just bothered me watching it.



			
				Fiery James said:
			
		

> It's funny, because Marion Cotillard was rumored to be playing Talia right from the point she was cast, but Nolan's camp denied it. And I knew that a young girl had been hired to play young Talia... but somehow, I forgot all of that when the movie was on and let it deliver the twist.



I thought it a fine piece of acting; despite having every reason to suspect her as being the bad guy, she sold a lot of us on the contrary.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 21, 2012)

When an atom of a radioactive element is hit by a neutron, it can split into two smaller atoms, and shoot off more neutrons, which can then hit other atoms. Usually, in nature, there aren't enough radioactive atoms together in one place for this to keep happening; the neutrons go flying off and hit non-radioactive matter.

But if you have a high enough density of radioactive atoms (a critical mass), what happens is that one atom decays, which spits out neutrons that hits others and makes them decay, on and on and on in a cascade. Each of these reactions releases energy, and if you've got enough, it'll explode.

Now, if you just stick one 'sub-critical' lump of plutonium next to another 'sub-critical' lump, together they can 'go critical,' and you'll kill everyone nearby with radiation. What most nuclear weapons do is have a sub-critical quantity of uranium or plutonium, then use external explosives to compress that mass into a smaller volume. Like if you take a marshmallow and squeeze it into a tiny ball, only you've got something already quite dense and you're compacting it more.

This sets off a massive chain reaction, which explodes. 

(Modern nuclear weapons use a fission bomb like this to trigger a fusion reaction, but I understand that less well.)

Now, this is a movie, and they're talking about some sort of fusion energy device. Their device looks to be WAY smaller than any fusion reactor I've ever heard about, outside of maybe Battletech. I assume it was designed with Hollywood science (i.e., bullsh*t). If I followed the exposition correctly, the reactor had some sort of core that could be modified into a bomb, that could be triggered at any moment. Fair enough.

Then, for a bit of (in my opinion) unnecessary extra tension, they tossed in the fact that, if removed from its housing, this bomb becomes unstable . . . but a very precise sort of unstable, so you can predict when it will go off, to the second, 5 months from now.

Again, I think it would have made more sense if they'd just left that out. Instead, have the bomb have both an immediate trigger and a countdown. The villains could be waiting to watch Gotham fall apart, and then will cap things off by blowing up the city as they get away. When Batman gets back, he could have led the effort to free the city, and things could have gone exactly the same. 

Talia, like, has the control device and presses button 1 to prime the bomb, which starts the countdown. Then when she pressed button 2 to actually set it off, the jammer stops that. Realizing Batman and company are going to try to disarm the bomb, she decides to martyr herself for the cause, and stays in the city so she can keep control of the bomb until it explodes.

But that's just a small nitpick. Overall I loved the movie.


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## CAFRedblade (Jul 21, 2012)

While I definitely enjoyed the movie, I think the first two were better overall.

The bait and switch with Talia/Bane was nicely done, I was cluing in that the child of Ras, would still be Talia just before the reveal.  

They pulled in the arc that Bane worked for the League of Shadows.  

The performance of Hardy as Bane was wonderful.  Even without his (the characters) trademark Venom.  The dub to make his voice more clear was decent, although perhaps I could have done with a little bit of a muffling/audio cue that he was speaking through the facemask.  It was almost too clear at times. 

Batman was kept off balance nicely throughout the movie.  

My only question as of plot hole is, if Talia had set the reactor to flood if anyone reactivates it, like she did, and it did, why would she go after the bomb to "protect" it.  ... actually, the one thing she wanted to do is keep the bomb on the streets, the reactor core area would probably be able to contain the explosion even if they couldn't shut it down... nm just answered my own question.  

Although I was hoping she would escape, while being pregnant with Bruces' child... although it is unclear if she died from her injuries or merely passed out...


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## Ebon Shar (Jul 22, 2012)

CAFRedblade said:


> Although I was hoping she would escape, while being pregnant with Bruces' child... although it is unclear if she died from her injuries or merely passed out...




I thought her death was so over-the-top pathetic and hammy that it had to have been faked.  Then again, why would she fake her death when she fully believed she would die in the nuclear blast?  That's the one scene that really bothered me.

I have to admit, I cried at the end.  Maybe I'm just a soft, sappy geek, but I did cry.  It made me feel a little better that my wife cried as well.


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## fanboy2000 (Jul 22, 2012)

RangerWickett said:


> Then, for a bit of (in my opinion) unnecessary extra tension, they tossed in the fact that, if removed from its housing, this bomb becomes unstable . . . but a very precise sort of unstable, so you can predict when it will go off, to the second, 5 months from now.
> 
> Again, I think it would have made more sense if they'd just left that out. Instead, have the bomb have both an immediate trigger and a countdown.



Actually, this is something I really liked. The idea that the bomb would blow simply as a consequence of not being attached to the fusion rector was a good choice.

First, had it been a typical hollywood countdown, then instead of a race to get it to the rest of the reactor, it would have been a typical "defuse the bomb scene."

Second, it also created a point in the move where defusing it was automatically not a possibility, but with a few minutes still remaining. Thus requiring it to be detonated out in the open ocean.

Lastly, it gave the protagonists a chance to figure out that it was really a kind of time bomb on their own, through their own deductions. Remember, Bane was representing that the bomb would be fine and undetected so long as everyone co-operated.

Bane and Talia's plan was always to blow-up Gotham, and they wanted a full-proof way to make sure that the bomb was going to blow up. And a I think this bomb does a better job of insuring that it detonates than a typical hollywood time bomb.

Yeah, the science is crap, but fusion is one of those keywords that lets you know that everything they say is crap. IIRC, nuclear fusion isn't feasable right now (maybe not ever) because it takes more energy to create a fusion reaction than the energy you get out of it. So, like faster than light travel, I give hollywood writers a pass when talking about fusion.


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## Stalker0 (Jul 22, 2012)

So my take.

A good movie, not a great movie.

1) I actually felt like the first hour dragged a bit. Not for lack of stuff going on (there was a ton of things happening), but it felt like too much buildup without enough payoff.

2) I liked the Selina character, but I think it would have worked out better if they had given her a motivation other than (I like stuff). The clean slate thing didn't really work for me. For example, if she hated the rich because you had been abused as kid or something traumatic had happened to her I would have liked it better.

3) Bane was my favorite part of the movie. I did not think I would like him from the trailers, but he did an excellent job. Such a strong physical presence on the screen that really made it work.

4) I hated Talia, her character seemed dropped in to the whole story. Ok, Bruce knows her from a few years back, trying to save the world. Ok, now he's trusting her with these big secrets. Ok, now they are lovers. I didn't see them together enough to get the payoff, there relationship never made sense to me.

5) I liked Batman's death scene, because it really was the death of Batman. To me Alfred got his wish, Bruce was finally able to let the Bat go and start a real life.


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## Joker (Jul 22, 2012)

How cool was the plane scene though?  I would love to see the behind the scenes footage on how they did that.


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## Herschel (Jul 22, 2012)

Now that was a great movie. There was just so much going on and the depth was a really nice change after so much fluffier summer fare. 

1. The opening scenes were interesting. MNaybe they could have been a bit tighter, but there was so much going on and really helped sink in that Bane was the central "bad guy". Nolan misdirection at work. 

2. After it was rumored that Marion Cotillard was cast as Talia even before the plot was known it planted that seed and then when the plot was revealed it made sense that Talia would be involved, so her reveal was not a surprise to me but it still worked well. It was especially telling when she honed right in on the "re-awakened" Bruce while trying not to seem like she was. I thought she played that very well. It also explains their "romance".

3. Alfred's such a good supporting character. The scene when he left was done very well by both actors where Bale looked like he could explode or cry and didn't know which. 

4. Morgan Freeman was his usual self, but he had very little screen time. I suppose at 2:44 they felt they were still really pushing it though. 

5. Anne Hathaway was very good. She had some nice scenes with Bale that added not only depth but bits of humor too. I would have liked a little more of her backstory but the film was 2:44, so I'll wait for the Director's Cut for that bit. 

6. The climactic battle was tremendous in that it really felt "human" with the cops charging the thugs and the forces trying to keep the people in the city. Unlike the Transformers, erm, Avengers big battle that one brought it home and made it feel more personal. 

7. The ending was also tremendous. It kind of wrapped up the trilogy but was also left WIDE open. Should they want to do another without Bale, they have "John Blake's" Batman, but should Bale return, there's Robin. One tidbit that really sticks in my mind: Neison's line in the first film about how 'The world is too small for Bruce Wayne to disappear.' I also loved the climbing kit and the Pearl Necklace bit from the will. I also liked that he was able to let Alfred, Lucious and Jim know he had survived.

8. The time passages were a bit ..."tough" to follow except the cut to Winter. At times a month or more had passed but it took a bit to realize that had just happened, like Bruce didn't get back to Gotham by hopping the next flight once he escaped, it took him weeks. There I thought maybe the editing was a bit too tight or ..... something.


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## Richards (Jul 22, 2012)

I just saw it this afternoon, and it was better than I expected - but then, based on the trailers, I really wasn't expecting all that much.  Of the three Nolan Batman movies, this was the one that I had the least excitement about going to see.

And now that I've seen it, I have to say that overall I'm a bit disappointed in Bale's Batman.  He's a quitter.  Let's review the history of his Batman:
In _Batman Begins_, we get his origin story and he fights Ra's al Ghul and the Scarecrow.

In _The Dark Knight_, he fights Joker and Two-Face.

In _The Dark Knight Rises_, we find out that he's been lounging around in his mansion for the past eight years (!), retired as Batman because he doesn't want to let anyone know that District Attorney Harvey Dent was actually Two-Face.  Then he's more or less "forced" out of retirement to deal with Bane and Talia, at the end of which he finds a way to fake his death and make it look like Batman was killed saving Gotham City.  Now he's off the grid: the world thinks he's dead, so he can go party off around Europe with Selina Kyle - who, by the way, he knows got her money through theft.
I'm a long-time comic book fan (and collector) since 1979.  I've always been more of a Marvel guy than a DC guy, but Batman has always been my favorite DC superhero.  And this, alas, is not a very flattering portrayal of the Batman I'm familiar with from the comics.  My Batman realizes that fighting crime is something that will consume his whole life.  My Batman is still scarred from the death of his parents, and has vowed that he will fight crime - and criminals - until his dying breath.  My Batman doesn't putz around in his mansion like a hermit for 8 years, and then find a way to sneak off and abandon his self-appointed lifetime duty to go party with a jewel thief.

I was similarly disappointed with _The Amazing Spider-Man_, so I'll do with _The Dark Knight Rises_ as I did with that one - recognize that it's an alternate universe version that has nothing much in common with the "true" (i.e., comic book) version of the character other than the same name and similar abilities. 

And at least this year I got _The Avengers_, which got so much right that I'm not going to quibble with the small stuff that was changed.

Johnathan


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## GMforPowergamers (Jul 22, 2012)

Richards said:


> [*]In _The Dark Knight Rises_, we find out that he's been lounging around in his mansion for the past eight years (!), retired as Batman because he doesn't want to let anyone know that District Attorney Harvey Dent was actually Two-Face.  Then he's more or less "forced" out of retirement to deal with Bane and Talia, at the end of which he finds a way to fake his death and make it look like Batman was killed saving Gotham City.  Now he's off the grid: the world thinks he's dead, so he can go party off around Europe with Selina Kyle - who, by the way, he knows got her money through theft




We have a very real look into a unrealstic chracter. 

I like that batman got happy ending. In fact this is, in my own mind, the best "end of batman"


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## RangerWickett (Jul 23, 2012)

Even firefighters retire.

Dude saved a city twice and ended up inspiring a lot of people. His legend will be fighting crime well after his dying breath. Plus, you know he was all like, "Hey, Selina, so . . . my butler, I want to make him happy. Can you tell a tiny little lie for me? He's an old family friend, and he's got this unrealistic notion that I'm going to settle down and get married."

"You want me to pose as your wife?"

"Just for a lunch. I'll even take you to Paris. . . . You might need to steal some money so I can afford it, though."

"Hm. Let me keep the pearls and we'll call it even."


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 23, 2012)

I was not a fan, did not like the Sean Connery voice (as it sounded to me) for Bane and it just sounded like SNL Jeopardy...Alex, I take Batman and your mother.  

New York just is not the city of Gotham.  

Give it 7 out of 10


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## Joker (Jul 23, 2012)

Hand of Evil said:


> New York just is not the city of Gotham.




Funny, given that Gotham is slang for New York.


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## Mark Chance (Jul 23, 2012)

My mini-review:

The movie was adequate. I won’t toss out any spoilers here, but will say that the storyline was muddled, Bruce Wayne was whiny, and Bane’s voice often unintelligible. At one point in the film, I swear Bane threatened to reduce Gotham City to “asses”. _The Dark Knight Rises_ is in no danger of being lauded as the Nolans’ best movie.


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## Herschel (Jul 23, 2012)

The one thing really making this not your standard summer fare was with so much going on, if your attention lapsed you were in serious danger of missing important details. In most summer movies if you run to the bathroom all you probably miss is another explosion or fart joke.


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## Krug (Jul 24, 2012)

Can't say I liked it much. Too many other mildly interesting supporting characters. I know the Batman movies have been more than about Batman, but this was pulled all over the place. I didn't like the obvious political messages that got shoved along with the story. Yes, it is a super hero story trying to be more, but it just felt forced.

The action sequences weren't as well handled as they could be. Who started the attack in the plane? Did I miss something about the blood transfusion? What happened to the rest of the guys on the plane? 

It was obviously just a matter of time before Batman could drag himself out of the pit, and that time away from Gotham really hurt the story. 

The ending with BW not being dead was a bit of a letdown. Would have sufficed to see BW walk away without ever turning around and leaving things open. 

Overall 6/10.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 24, 2012)

Joker said:


> Funny, given that Gotham is slang for New York.




True but Nohan has provided us two other movies, the first, heavy CGI, that gave us a different atmosphere and look.  That was taken away in this one and yet this movie had ties to that first one, did not come across well.


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## Herschel (Jul 24, 2012)

Krug said:


> Can't say I liked it much. Too many other mildly interesting supporting characters. I know the Batman movies have been more than about Batman, but this was pulled all over the place. I didn't like the obvious political messages that got shoved along with the story. Yes, it is a super hero story trying to be more, but it just felt forced.




Bane and Talia glommed on to a political message to make Ras' original plan seem more palatable, get things moving the way they wanted and less like it really was. That was very good use of real world current events.


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## Mark Chance (Jul 24, 2012)

Herschel said:


> That was very good use of real world current events.




That wasn't a good use of current events. It was the Cliffs Notes summary of _A Tale of Two Cities_.


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## Herschel (Jul 24, 2012)

It wasn't that original, but it was topical. Sheesh, I swear some groups try to be offended.


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## Mark Chance (Jul 24, 2012)

Well, you don't have to be offended, Herschel, by my observation. It was just an observation, expressed without rancor or judgment. If you read those things in what I wrote, it's your inference rather than my implication.

IIRC, Christopher Nolan himself has said that Dickens was more of an influence on the film's story than, say, CNN.


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## Krug (Jul 24, 2012)

Mark Chance said:


> That wasn't a good use of current events. It was the Cliffs Notes summary of _A Tale of Two Cities_.




Agreed. Like the scene where they break open the prison.. just do it already.


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## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Jul 24, 2012)

I still say what Alfred saw at the end was just the fantasy of a lonely old man. Bruce died and Selina went away alone. That is all.


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## Mark Chance (Jul 24, 2012)

RobertSullivan said:


> I still say what Alfred saw at the end was just the fantasy of a lonely old man. Bruce died and Selina went away alone. That is all.




If it wasn't, how could a famous billionaire whose last public activity was losing his fortune and control of a megacompany manage to stay in cognito for any length of time anywhere that has the Internet? It was a silly ending.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jul 25, 2012)

RobertSullivan said:


> I still say what Alfred saw at the end was just the fantasy of a lonely old man. Bruce died and Selina went away alone. That is all.




Though since Alfred didn't see Bruce and Selena reconcile, why would he have imagined them together?  Why not Bruce and whats-her-face from Dark Knight?


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## ssampier (Jul 25, 2012)

RobertSullivan said:


> I still say what Alfred saw at the end was just the fantasy of a lonely old man. Bruce died and Selina went away alone. That is all.




I thought that, too. It all depends on who writes/directs the next Batman.

It should be interesting if Warner Brothers does make the rumored Justice League movie.


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## Herschel (Jul 25, 2012)

Mark Chance said:


> If it wasn't, how could a famous billionaire whose last public activity was losing his fortune and control of a megacompany manage to stay in cognito for any length of time anywhere that has the Internet? It was a silly ending.




Because every trace of Bruce and Selena was erased FROM the internet. Thats what the "Clean Slate" program was for. Someone, somewhere may recognize him but they'd be going from memory or physical records.


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## Joker (Jul 25, 2012)

Herschel said:


> ... or fart joke.




It's subtle but it's in all the Batman movies.  Everytime he leaves when someone's talking to him he actually just cut the cheese.
It all culminates to the point where Selena leaves while he's talking and he says to himself: "So, that's what that smells like."


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## Mark Chance (Jul 26, 2012)

Herschel said:


> Because every trace of Bruce and Selena was erased FROM the internet. Thats what the "Clean Slate" program was for. Someone, somewhere may recognize him but they'd be going from memory or physical records.




Or all of the ongoing news reports that would pop up about how Bruce Wayne was mysteriously erased from the Internet, possibly with someone noting that wanted criminal Selina Kyle was erased at the same time. Like I said: A silly ending.

I think the Nolans came close to just phoning this one in.


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## Herschel (Jul 26, 2012)

Yeah, because someone as smart as Bruce and his crew are going to be dumb enough just to bludgeon erase and then not have an ongoing sweep.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 26, 2012)

Selina Kyle disappeared with the Clean Slate. Bruce just faked his death the classic way. If anyone saw him, they'd either be dismissed, or folks would assume he just ran away after losing his fortune.

Plus, he disappeared before, in the prologue to Batman Begins.


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## drothgery (Jul 26, 2012)

RangerWickett said:


> Plus, he disappeared before, in the prologue to Batman Begins.



And really, Bruce Wayne does not look unusual enough that anyone who sees him (at least, in a country where dark-haired white guys are not uncommon) is going to immediately think "hey, that's Bruce Wayne!".


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 27, 2012)

drothgery said:


> And really, Bruce Wayne does not look unusual enough that anyone who sees him (at least, in a country where dark-haired white guys are not uncommon) is going to immediately think "hey, that's Bruce Wayne!".




Plus, Bruce did not get out much any more, from movie 2 and this one, as long as he kept out of Gotham.  It would be like Bill Gates, sure I know what he looks like but I would not recognize him on the street but if it was Donald Trump, he I would.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jul 30, 2012)

The world assumes Bruce Wayne is dead - it's not quite established why, but considering what was going on in Gotham City for 5 months, and he basically never showed up in that time, it would seem likely that he was just one of the first victims.

Any sightings of him would be like sightings of Elvis. A myth that pertains, but ultimately it doesn't really make sense that some ex-billionaire playboy turned hermit would fake his own death - what would he have to gain? It's not like he's some costumed crime fighter or anything, right?

---

I wonder what drives a woman to sleep with the man that killed her father, but then, what drives an large group of people to blow up a corrupt city with themselves...


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## Mark CMG (Jul 30, 2012)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I wonder what drives a woman to sleep with the man that killed her father





Have his baby, make it into a monster.  Ultimate revenge.


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## Herschel (Jul 30, 2012)

Yeah, that's a fairly standard revenge situation in fiction. Get in to his head and then x.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 30, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> Have his baby, make it into a monster.  Ultimate revenge.




It was for the movie goers, it builds trust...like having a guy with a white hat and a dog...cheap screen writing; bait and switch.


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## Plane Sailing (Aug 7, 2012)

Saw it today, thought it was an OK film. Bane was much better than I thought he would be.

A couple of things didn't make much sense to me though - did batman get his back broken, but it 'got better' in prison through doing press-ups and stuff ?!? That didn't make lots of sense to me.

The other thing is that - since duking it out fist to fist with Bane worked so appallingly badly the first time, why on earth did batman think it was going to work better this time? Would it not have made sense to use, I dunno, something significant from his utility belt? A bit of outthinking or gadgetry this time to get an edge? It just didn't ring true to me there.

Cheers


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## Iosue (Aug 7, 2012)

Plane Sailing said:


> A couple of things didn't make much sense to me though - did batman get his back broken, but it 'got better' in prison through doing press-ups and stuff ?!? That didn't make lots of sense to me.



His back wasn't broken.  I don't remember exactly, but the inmate who helps says something about a vertebra sticking out, suggesting a subluxation or dislocation.  He gets Bruce into the sling, slams the vertebra back into place, and tells him to hang there until he's strong enough to stand on his own.  After he can stand again, then Bruce starts on the push-ups and sit-ups.



> The other thing is that - since duking it out fist to fist with Bane worked so appallingly badly the first time, why on earth did batman think it was going to work better this time? Would it not have made sense to use, I dunno, something significant from his utility belt? A bit of outthinking or gadgetry this time to get an edge? It just didn't ring true to me there.



I, too, thought going for some bat-gadgetry would have been very in-character.  But he wasn't exactly making the same mistake this time.  Before he fought Bane just like any other criminal, not knowing that Bane's mask was pumping him full of painkillers, letting him shrug all of Batman's blows.  The second time around, he knew about the mask, and targeted it during the fight.


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## Bullgrit (Aug 7, 2012)

I went to this movie last night. I'd been wanting to see it earlier, but just didn't get the opportunity.

I walked out of the movie a little after half-way through it. I was not entertained. At all. I was shocked that I didn't like it. I was left completely "meh." I decided going home and going to bed was a better use of my time than staying and seeing the rest of the movie.

Some things that just killed it for me:

Bane's genius plans relied on the good guys doing completely insane-stupid things. 

In the very beginning, the CIA agent took on the hooded captives *without taking off their hoods* first! WTF? If the agent wasn't a complete idiot, Bane's plan wouldn't have worked.

The entire police force went into the sewers to get Bane's army? WTF? Really? Sending an *entire city of just beat cops* into a tunnel complex to engage a mercenary army? That's completely idiotic. And Bane's plan depended on that idiocy to work.

I wouldn't even call the above "mistakes." Trusting a potentially corrupt law official in another country is a mistake. Failing to remove unsecured hoods from three men you're taking into custody is not a mistake, it's friggin' insane.

And then the "prison doc" set Bruce's spine with a back slap? WTF?

It was right after the back slap that I decided this whole thing was too stupid for me. I got up and left the theater.

I don't get bothered by little stupidity here and there in movie stories. People do stupid things sometimes. But when the whole plot -- when the bad guy's "genius" is planned on the good guys repeatedly doing completely moronic things -- relies on stupid things, I loose interest.

Bullgrit


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## Mark CMG (Aug 7, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-GkQihKYvM]The Dark Knight & 60's Robin - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tc92UM2Kyk]Extremely Dark Knight - YouTube[/ame]


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## Janx (Aug 7, 2012)

I never read the original dark knight batman, though I heard the tale from my Batman fan friend on the drive through Iowa.  The comic book story motivation for Bane sounded dumb then, and the movie's version is only slightly better.

First, off, kudos to Sean Connery for playing Bane and being so buff.  For an old guy, he can sure move.  Funny how a guy raised in a South American prison gets a scottish accent.

Next off, how does somebody raised in a prison to serve their father's sentence not cause you some daddy issues.  I'm sorry, but my evil plan would involve shanking daddy for not rescuing me, rather than taking it out on some stupid city in the US.

Now this movie had a lot of character building for people like Blake the hothead cop, and the stupid bossy cop, and the leader cop who let somebody take the blame.  It also had a cameo by Batman.  I hope you didn't miss the scene where he showed up for a moment.  It was pretty cool.

I think the surprise ending was a little inconsistent.  Yes, the auto-pilot doesn't work.  he even says so as he climbs in.  Why would he lie about something so important to people who are obviously concerned about his safety during this last ditch effort to save the city.  He even pilots it out of the city, because we saw him pilot it out of the city.

Somehow, in between cut-scenes, he manages to eject while still being out of range of the NUCLEAR explosion.   Pretty impressive.  I can see a world where Bruce Wayne sees a chance to let the Batman die/end heroically, so he'll lie now to setup his exit.  But there's some serious logistical problems in pulling this trick off on a spur of the moment.

Perhaps Michael Kane helped him with it, after all, he did once work for an Illusionist.


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## renau1g (Aug 7, 2012)

Well I enjoyed the movie, too bad you didn't Janx, although going in thinking that the main antagonist is stupid probably isn't going to lead to a good experience. 

Did I like it as much as TDK? No, Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker was incredible, I felt he actually gave some realism to what I consider one of the most challenging villains in the Batman universe to portray. 

I actually liked that there was some focus on the other characters, including Robin, & the Commish (I do enjoy him). I do wonder though if the batcopter had those guns on it, why Batman didn't just mow down Bane's thugs (along with him) from the air? 

As any movie, you can pick apart continuity or minor issues all day, but I felt overall the movie was a very enjoyable experience, my top 2 this year along with Avengers.  The length didn't seem bad, I was hoping for more actually, more Selina Kyle development, or a longer fight scene with Bane at the end, etc. Hopefully there's some additional footage in an Director's Cut (like the LOTR Extended editions).


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