# Heroes #13:Duels/Dec.2008



## Truth Seeker (Dec 15, 2008)

*Duels*

Writers:Jeph Loeb

Stars: Dania Ramirez (Maya Herrera)
Jack Coleman (HRG/Noah Bennet)
Cristine Rose (Angela Petrelli)
James Kyson Lee (Ando Masahashi)
Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman)
Masi Oka (Hiro Nakamura)
Sendhil Ramamurthy (Dr. Mohinder Suresh)
Ali Larter (Tracy Strauss)
Hayden Panettiere (Claire Bennet)
Zachary Quinto (Sylar/Gabriel Gray)
Adrian Pasdar (Nathan Petrelli)
Milo Ventimiglia (Peter Petrelli)

Recurring Role:Ntare Mwine (Usutu)
Robert Forster (Arthur Petrelli)
George Takei (Kaito Nakamura)
Brea Grant (Daphne Millbrook)
Jessalyn Gilsig (Meredith Gordon)
Jamie Hector (Benjamin 'Knox' Washington)
Blake Shields (Flint)

Guest Star: David H. Lawrence XVII (Eric Doyle)
Chad Faust (Scott)

Nathan and Peter face off, and Nathan makes a move with far reaching consequences. Sylar takes desperate measures at Primatech and the fates of several heroes hang in the balance. Ando, Matt, and Daphne continue their quest to save Hiro​


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## fba827 (Dec 15, 2008)

I recognize all but the last name on the list.  Do we know that character, Scott, from before? Or is that someone entirely new?

Also, no Ma Bennet or Lyle.. 

Ah well, we shall be seeing how this volume's show-down closes out.

Although, admitedly, I already know a couple spoilers from volume 4, so I have a vague idea of a couple things.  But, not the exact particulars, so anyway should be fun to see ...


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 15, 2008)

Appearantly Scott is the super soldier guy.


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## Phoenix8008 (Dec 15, 2008)

Is this on tonight? I thought last weeks episode was the last new one for awhile...


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## fba827 (Dec 15, 2008)

Phoenix8008 said:


> Is this on tonight? I thought last weeks episode was the last new one for awhile...




Yeah, it's on tonight.  Tonight is the last episode of the volume.

After tonight, the next new episodes (and the start of volume 4: Fugitives) starts Feb 2


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 15, 2008)

Phoenix8008 said:


> Is this on tonight? I thought last weeks episode was the last new one for awhile...




Nope.  They only hyped last week's episode because they knew people were losing interest.


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## Brown Jenkin (Dec 16, 2008)

Real time commentary

[sblock]

9:00: Finally the pain will end

9:01: Mohinder's not narating. Off to a good start.

9:02: So the circumstances around Arthur got retconned. Not a good start.

9:03: And now for the magical Sylar. I can't wait for this to end.

9:05: Comercials and a thought. So far this episode does not seem to track with last episode. I hope I can make all 55 minutes.

9:08: Shooting doesn't work. Come on people.

9:10: Lets see how they mess with Hiro now.

9:11: If only Mohinder will die. They have reconned the super soldier as I predicted.

9:12: Just shoot hm and be done with it. Blue flame guy will do as well.

9 Scott was easy.

9:14: Cool, Ando the Ettin. If only.

9:15: So Hiro waits a long tiime to crawl back. Why?

9:16: Maybe past Hiro hasn't pissed off the writers.

9:17: Ooooo, Kinky Claire.

9:18: Boring. I don't care about Claire v. Sylar. And another fakeout.

9:19: Comercials and a thought. For a finale this has nothing to do with the last few episodes. This could almost be a Bobby Ewing is dead season.

9:23: Oh Great, Feed Sylar more powers.

9:23: That still makes Peter better than Mohinder.

9:24: Ando and the super passing out power. This at least holds what little promise there is.

9:25: Red Lightning, how surprising. Not! Doesn't Ando paw attention anymore?

9:26: Because Sylar needs manipulation Powers.

9:27: At least they have fewer powered to worry about.

9:28: When this is all over Claire and everyone else will be cheering. 

9:30: Commercials and a thought. All Hiro has to do is fix the past and this can all go away. There is major cleanup required after this episode. If only I trusted the writers to actually make major changes. But no, the only speculation is how they will write a dues ex machina reset.

9:32: Nobody backs Peter. And boy is Nathan stupid. 

9:33: At least one more pointless hero is dead.

9:34: So Ando's power is strange. Wow something new.

9:35: Fakeout proved. Ma Patrelli is one of the untouchables.

9:37: Bullet proof, but not flesh proof. That was stupid.

9:38: Comercials and a thought. Only 2 more acts to go. I hate to say it but this needs more time to play out properly. I am dreading the last minute fix coming.

9:42: This is eminately deniable. Come on Nathan. Plus fly supersonic and alibi given.

9:44: Ando and daphne. This could be interesting.

9:45: Masi Oka realy pissed off the writers.

9:46: Thats right give Hiro a chance to screw up again.

9:48: Peter hanging out with Mohinder sure does pick up his super-stupidity.

9:48: Huh?

9:49: Commercials and a thought. So what is the point of this episode? Only 10 minutes till the pain ends.

9:52: No Peter killed Arthur.

9:53: Please stop thiis pointlessness. If only they would kill Sylar.

9:55: At least Sylar isn't another Patrelli.

9:55: Yea, Claire. 

9:56: What. Why is the building coming down? Why won't mom leave?

9:57: What a surprise. Not.

9:57: Why is Mohinder narrating again. Why do the writers love him and not Hiro.

9:58: The preview isn't bad at least.

[/sblock]

For finally ending I give it a 7/10. For the episode itself I give it a 3/10. 

Edit: Edited in real time.


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 16, 2008)

Retconned in the first five minutes!?!?  My lord...


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 16, 2008)

Overall I thought it was pretty good... I don't particularly have any complaints.  Three stories, plenty of time for each one.

First off, the totally nitpicky thing out of the way first, so people can slam me on it.    The bottom of a vacutainer (the tubes the formula was in) is blunt and pretty resistant to breakage.  I know this because I was a med tech for a while, and had daily contact with them.  I almost died laughing when Ando "stabbed" himself with one.

Daphne, Matt, and Ando are comedy gold.  They have great chemistry together, and definitely need to be in more scenes with each other.  Most of all I liked the actual _thought_ put into the scene... Daphne's WTF as to time travel and Matt's sciency explanation.

Ando's power is neat, and it looks like wolff96 got his/her wish.  However, god help them if they ever put Ando and Peter together.  My hope is that Ando's power doesn't work on Peter, because it requires Peter to know the person.

I know in the beginning the producers said they weren't good at horror.  I disagree, and point to the Sylar storyline here.  Excellent acting by Coleman, Rose, and Gilsig.  Christine Rose in particular deserves a lot of credit for a job well done.

Claire, on the other hand, sucked.  Part of the problem IMO is that Hayden simply can not act badass enough for the stuff they're giving her.  I think she's an okay actress, but the writers really need to write to her strengths.  That said, I liked how she got revenge on Sylar in the end.  She caught him monologuing.    So Sylar is disabled but not dead... presumably he survived the fire and explosion.

Also, it's entirely possible Meredith and Flint (may as well throw him in here too) are both still alive.  They can't be burned, and they may have survived building collapse.  I'm not sure why HRG didn't knock her unconscious though - that presumably would have stopped her power in the same way it stopped Ted.  That bugged me a bit.

Peter, again, way too trusting... but that's his character.  He is the quintessential Lawful Good character on the show.  I said to my friend after he injected the formula, "I hope we get a scene about how hypocritical that was."  Did not disappoint.

I like Evil Nathan.  I wish we had gotten more of a path from them being close to Nathan pulling a total 180.  I mean, I see all the road signs, but they could have been linked together better.  Specifically, I wanted to see a scene where Nathan is jealous Peter is _still_ a hero even without his powers, let alone with the most powerful of abilities.

I knew as soon as Mohinder was doused in the formula he was cured.

I liked how they killed off a bunch of minor characters.  I'm a little sad to see Knox go, as I thought he was the coolest of the actual villains, but it was a cool scene.

They acknowledged Micah!  Always makes me happy.  My guess as to the two hands we saw were Micah and Monica.

They do know how to make a promo, that's for sure.  These last two episodes were, IMO, a good way back towards what I believe to be a good show.  Hopefully they can keep it up.


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## Mark (Dec 16, 2008)

Spoiler



"How do you know so much about Einstein, Einstein?"


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## Mort (Dec 16, 2008)

Not that I was expecting the writers to, but: 
[sblock] How about at least pretending that HRG was smart enough to check that Sylar actually died in the fire and/or otherwise making sure he's dead or mostly incapacitated? At this point it won't be a fakeout - it's par for the course [/sblock]


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## Felon (Dec 16, 2008)

Satisfactory.

/Nuff said.


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## Hand of Evil (Dec 16, 2008)

A lot happened but in the greater scheme of things, nothing happened.  Yea, bunch of secondary villians/heros died, who really cares.    

Nathan is getting more powerful, not with powers but just because that is what he does and we know what that means, plus power, minus inteligence! 

Peter, at least he is constant dumb. 

Suresh is an idoit, who cares.

Ando - wow, a plot enhancing power!  So, did you really kill Heiro in that future?  

Nicki/Tracy/etc, is a gold digging slut, who cares.

Claire Bear, just dress her in a school girl outfit and go anime with her.  Blood, gore, good, bad, sociopath and always cute, sort of a vorpal bunny.  

Sylar!  Figure you are a child from the future, your ma and pa right in front of you.   

Rating: 6/10


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## Felon (Dec 16, 2008)

Hand of Evil said:


> A lot happened but in the greater scheme of things, nothing happened.  Yea, bunch of secondary villians/heros died, who really cares.
> 
> Nathan is getting more powerful, not with powers but just because that is what he does and we know what that means, plus power, minus inteligence!
> 
> ...



Well, Sylar's father has been cast as 



Spoiler



John Glover (Lionel Luthor from Smallville)


. 

And Peter...man, I don't know what to think. I thought they were trying to fix that character, then they went and re-empowered him with (apparently) the same old powers.


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## fba827 (Dec 16, 2008)

When the three were released from their prison to help get Sylar, I recognized two: Doyle (the puppetter) and Echo (from the 3-part webepisode), the third guy (with the beard) looked vaguely familiar but I have no idea who it was....   have we seen him before? If so, what was his power?


Edit: OOOOH was he the guy that Claire's bio-mom (fire girl) and HRG went to go see in that homeless area (in the past when fire girl was just joining the company), the one who turned his arm in to metal (or some such) ?


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## Steel_Wind (Dec 16, 2008)

From the interview concerning the return of  Bryan Fuller, it appears that we won’t really see too many changes with the underlying problems concerning the structure and emphasis of the show’s writing  until Episode 19/20, in mid to late March of this year.

I am also not too sure that the “end” of Volume is all that significant a line in the sand here. I expect we will be seeing significantly more continuity in episode #14 than many might prefer to see.

There are a few resets here concerning the abilities of the uber_powered that many here have complained of. To whit:

*Peter Petrelli:*  As we all assumed, Peter regained his chameleon emo power back, but I suspect that, like Sylar’s, it has been reset. Peter starts with flight, but is no longer a time traveller. That’s not a small development.  I do not think the writers of the show will be putting Peter and any (restored) Hiro back into any scenes together any time soon.

*Hiro Nakamura: * Hiro has lost his power. I’m not sure where they are going with this. It may be that there is some small residue of power left in him, which on its own is too small for significant time travel. However, amped by Ando, together, he and Ando might accomplish _some_ space time continuum disruption, but on a smaller scale. Teleportation and time freeze, without extensive time travel abilities. I think it’s pretty clear given how they have deliberately nerfed Hiro’s power for pretty much all of Vol III that the writers have become uncomfortable with the implications of Hiro’s time travelling power and have decided that  - for now at least – nerfing most of what he can do is in the best interest of the plot continuity of the show.

*Ando: *The more subtle problems that can crop up when a new power is created on the show lurks beneath the surface of Ando's new Power Amplification gig. He can’t do anything on his own, but the implications of his ability to uber up others is pretty significant and potentially troublesome for the writers in the long term.  And it seems to me that these writers have demonstrated pretty clearly that they don’t write think when they are writing one hour drama on a  long term basis. 

*Sylar: *As we all know, there is no way that Sylar is actually dead. We’ll come back to him in an episode or two.  The quest for his real parents will dominate his “A “ story in Vol. IV, I expect. 

*Meredith*: Both Meredith and her brother have probably survived the collapse of the building as well...but that result was suitable sketchy in the finest comic book tradition – so I’m okay with that.

*Nathan Petrelli:* Odd thing is, Nathan’s pursuit of his father’s plan was pretty hard to justify.  But his new spin – to be part of a Federal government plan to Gitmoize the uber_powered, is actually not  that far a stretch. I’m not even sure it is “evil”. The control and containment of the Powered has been, essentially, the role of the Company to date.  With both the Company and Pinehearst destroyed, we are moving to a less tolerant, more X-Men like governmental enemy of the uber_powered. A faceless force that threatens both the Heroes and Villains.

Nathan pursuing Arthur Petrelli’s plan might have been evil, given the foreknowledge of how it worked out.  The  new Gitmo containment protocol for the uber_powered, on the other hand, is not necessarily an evil plan. Indeed, it can be defended as a *rational* plan.

*HRG: *Does it not make sense that HRG would be the key recruit of Nathan Petrelli’s new Organization With Initials? That he joins it, conflicted, to protect Claire and his family from Sylar et al and from Nathan too?

Seems a natural fit to me. And HRG remains probably the best damn thing about the show.  His comfortableness with morally gray, and dogged determination to save his family would work. It would give then a stable base to work from in terms of the OWithI....in theory.  

*Mohinder: *I actually like Mohinder from season  1 and 2 and saw his humanity as the window of the normal’s view into the Heroic world.  He seemed ethical at the time. It’s the Mohinder from Season III, post injection I wasn’t much of a fan of. Still, he’s not only been cured – he’s ALSO been uberfied now. We don’t know exactly what this change will bring to us, but we do know that it will be something.  I expect they will be dragging that one out for a little while, to give us a new “Origin/Discovery” tale during Vol IV.

*Tracy: *They have not given us the third incarnation of Nikki yet, but the way Tracy is going, that can’t be long as it seems that Tracy is quickly overstaying her welcome.  It might be in everyone’s interest if they just let Ali Larter go on her merry way to some other program.

* Matt and Daphne: *The one bright spot in the show this Vol III has been that these two have worked out pretty well. Let em be and don’t burden them too much with the travails of normalcy.


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## Staffan (Dec 16, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> *Tracy: *They have not given us the third incarnation of Nikki yet,



Wouldn't that have been Jessica?


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## Pseudonym (Dec 16, 2008)

Staffan said:


> Wouldn't that have been Jessica?




When Tracy visited the doctor who gave her and her sisters powers, he said there was a third triplet named Barbara, IIRC.


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## Truth Seeker (Dec 16, 2008)

Wow, that was a crazy ending. And the next volume will be more crazier, from the looks of things.


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## Shayuri (Dec 16, 2008)

Here's a shakedown of my thoughts on Heroes after Season 3:

[sblock]Good: 
Hiro depowered. I like Hiro's character, but his powers were playing havoc with any kind of believable storyline. If it was just teleporting and freezing time, that'd be okay. Time travel moves it from "powerful ability" to "you ALWAYS have to account for this in any plot." In any given situation, there was this dangling question; why doesn't Hiro just stop this? I dunno where they'll take him now, but at least the constant time traveling has ended. Arthur had it, but died. Peter had it, but lost it. Now the power's gone. Gone gone gone.

Syler evil again. As many have noted, Syler doesn't work as a dark hero. His moral quandry is okay as a sort of background element, but he works best as a villain, and this episode (indeed, this season) proves it. Indeed, in some ways he's even MORE of a villain now, since he's embraced that wholeheartedly and isn't just about stealing powers now. This could be good, IF they develop a good villainous agenda for him...searching out his parents won't last long, but could be good development. Sooner or later though, he needs to start diabolical schemes if he's really going to wear the Iron Mask of Doom.

Daphne. I like her. She's the sort of hero I'd play in a Heroes RPG.  She seems a bit young for Matt...but not scandalously so. They seem good for each other too, and it's NICE to have a relationship that's not tainted with hideous deception and betrayal and angst. I hope to see much more of them in Fugitives.

Nathan as bad guy. In season 1, we saw Nathan as someone who was willing to say the ends justify the means. That got lost in the hurlyburly in season 2, and I think season 3 sort of botched Nathan's twist from good to bad...but I think it's cool he finally got to where he is. This is a good place for him, dramawise. They need to develop him as this sort of sympathetic villain (contrasted with Syler's pure malevolence) in the vein of Magneto, perhaps. The bad guy you can't just kill.

Bad:
Angst Clair. It is my HOPE that Claire ends season 3 having matured and perhaps having lost her 'innocence' as far as people go...but not having become the 'harcore Claire' we saw in the various glimpses of the future. I can't buy hardcore Claire. Maybe it's not too much to ask of me...but I just can't square "badass soulless killer" with Hayden's adorable face. She does okay acting it...but even with slicked back hair and makeup, she is physically incapable of being intimidating.

Tracy/Nikki/Barbara. Admittedly, Barbara's an unknown quantity here, but frankly, none of these characters has ever really added anything to the plot of any season, IMO. It's not Ali's fault. The writers just keep including her even though her stories are essentially irrelevant and expendable. They need to either make her a -real participant- in the events, and not just an occasional throwaway presence...or stop using her.

The Uncertain:
Ando with powers. I'm not so sure this has the wreckage potential of time travel (I suspect not, but I may be surprised), but it concerns me for a couple of reasons. One, it means Hiro/Ando isn't being written out, most likely...which makes it increasingly likely Hiro will be repowered. Two, no cast thinning and another storyline to keep up with. Three, super-boosting other people's powers -does- have some breakage potential... Now, it has drama potential too (Syler kidnaps Ando to use him as a booster anyone?) and the idea of reversing the dynamic between Ando and Hiro...with Hiro now being Andi's normal sidekick...has some entertaining possibilities. For a little while. I just hope they don't obsess on it.

Peter with powers. It's been reset, it seems...which is good. He'll quickly regain his status as "the guy who can try to fight Syler," I expect...but someone has to be that guy. At least he won't be getting invisibility or time travel again. No Elle-Lightning either. Might work out. [/sblock]


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## drothgery (Dec 16, 2008)

Is there any possibility at all that Sylar stays dead? Because he really ought to this time. He's unconscious, can't regenerate, and in a burning building. He's not getting out on his own, and neither Meredith nor her brother would even consider rescuing him. It's hard to think anyone would, in fact.


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## Brown Jenkin (Dec 16, 2008)

drothgery said:


> Is there any possibility at all that Sylar stays dead? Because he really ought to this time. He's unconscious, can't regenerate, and in a burning building. He's not getting out on his own, and neither Meredith nor her brother would even consider rescuing him. It's hard to think anyone would, in fact.




Ma Patrelli would.


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 16, 2008)

drothgery said:


> Is there any possibility at all that Sylar stays dead? Because he really ought to this time. He's unconscious, can't regenerate, and in a burning building. He's not getting out on his own, and neither Meredith nor her brother would even consider rescuing him. It's hard to think anyone would, in fact.




Hopefully so..  But we all that Zachary Quinto has been seen on set of Volume 4.  This means A) Sylar has a twin/clone and is dead.  B)  Sylar is alive or C) Sylar has a twin/clone AND is alive.


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## Steel_Wind (Dec 16, 2008)

Shayuri said:


> Peter with powers. It's been reset, it seems...which is good. He'll quickly regain his status as "the guy who can try to fight Syler," I expect...but someone has to be that guy. At least he won't be getting invisibility or time travel again. No Elle-Lightning either. Might work out. [/sblock]




Not really...for the very reason you state. Peter is the counter to Sylar, the one Hero strong enough to fight Sylar on his own terms (Hiro aside, perhaps).

And just as that result will mandate some confrontation between the two, the moment Peter comes into contact with Sylar, he will absorb Sylar's powers. Most of those powers he does not know about and so cannot easily access them...

But a few of them he does know about and will be able to access instinctively. Telekinesis, Lightning, and Superhealing at a minimum, will return to Peter's instant power repertoire.

(My guess is that they will conveniently forget that Peter knows "how to fix a watch", too. They won't reactivate the hunger in Peter Petrelli.)

That's the nature of Peter Petrelli. He's just monstrously powerful if you let him get out of control. The show has constrained those powers by:

1 - making him emo stupid, rather than intellectually clever;
2- hobbbles him by making it difficlt for him to access the powers he has abosorbed that require some sort of focus to open up the acquired power to ordinary use; 
3- Seems to prevent him from using most of his acquired powers well, or at the least, multiple powers at the same time (there are exceptions to this, clearly);  and
4- Places moral constraints upon the exercise of his powers

All of this works together to achieve the same result: prevent Peter;s power from breaking the show.  

I think the one power they have realized is becoming increasingly difficult to deal with in terms of plot pacing and writing is time travel.  That's a power and plot element they want to de-emphasize (for a while, at least).


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## Xath (Dec 16, 2008)

Has anyone considered that Peter might not actually be "reset?"

My theory is that the serum gave him the power of flight.  We've seen that power types can run similarly in bloodlines.  Nathan was different because his powers were fake.  Now that Peter's powers are fake too, perhaps he was just gifted with the same power as his brother.  So instead of being set up as a foil for Sylar, Peter is instead being set up as a foil for Nathan.


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## drothgery (Dec 16, 2008)

Relique du Madde said:


> Hopefully so..  But we all that Zachary Quinto has been seen on set of Volume 4.  This means A) Sylar has a twin/clone and is dead.  B)  Sylar is alive or C) Sylar has a twin/clone AND is alive.




Can I at least hold out hope for
D) Flashbacks and dream sequences
E) Time travel
or
F) A shapeshifter or illusionist pretending to be Sylar?


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## drothgery (Dec 16, 2008)

Brown Jenkin said:


> Ma Patrelli would.




She's been burned twice attempting to manipulate Sylar. I don't think she'd try three times.


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## DonTadow (Dec 16, 2008)

Good episode and seems a strong indication that things are fixing.  The stories were nice, but nicer was the fixes.

The writers didn't want to 100 percent get rid of time travel, that's cool.  But they did want to seriously nerf it.  The fact that it takes two people to travel through time works for me.  Its someting they don't want to risk too often.  

Hopefully peter's power has been nerfed as well. I'd like it if he can only manifest a power of someone he is near.  

I hated Knox's death, but it was the strongest indication that this fixes the future.. or at least makes the future uncertain again.  That works as we.

I am not sure if Sylar got the puppet guys power, he killed him before cutting his head open.  

I hope suresh returns to season 1 suresh... before he first tried to kill sylar and just didn't put a bullet in him.  

NOw, if season 3 is going to end good, it has to end with sylar's death.


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## FoxWander (Dec 17, 2008)

Well I don't have much to add that hasn't already been mentioned. They reset the most plot-breaking powers and thinned the herd a bit, so I'm hopeful for next season. I just popped in to correct someone's nitpick...



LightPhoenix said:


> First off, the totally nitpicky thing out of the way first, so people can slam me on it.    The bottom of a vacutainer (the tubes the formula was in) is blunt and pretty resistant to breakage.  I know this because I was a med tech for a while, and had daily contact with them.  I almost died laughing when Ando "stabbed" himself with one.



 Those weren't vacutainers holding the formula, they were autoinjectors. The military uses them for injecting chemical weapon counter agents (atropine and such). Being in the Air Force I actually thought it was a nice bit of verisimilitude as they were intending to give the formula to soldiers. 

Anyway, that's all- at least LightPhoenix can go back to thinking the ep was pretty good and now nitpick free!


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## Pseudonym (Dec 17, 2008)

drothgery said:


> Is there any possibility at all that Sylar stays dead? Because he really ought to this time. He's unconscious, can't regenerate, and in a burning building. .




Well, he's "dead" with a piece of glass in his neck which is preventing him from regenerating.  Eventually it will get hot enough to melt the glass or he'll fall through the burning floor and the glass will get knocked out or a coroner cleaning up the scene will pull it out and he'll start regenerating again.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 17, 2008)

FoxWander said:


> Anyway, that's all- at least LightPhoenix can go back to thinking the ep was pretty good and now nitpick free!




Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  

I assumed they were the lavender top vacutainers that were sitting on the shelf.  My bad.

On another Matt/Daphne/Ando note... I like that Matt pointed out how powers were related to condition.  It makes a lot of sense that Ando has always wanted to help powered people (Peter, Hiro, Matt/Daphne), and so his power is a reflection of that.


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## Steel_Wind (Dec 17, 2008)

Xath said:


> Has anyone considered that Peter might not actually be "reset?"
> 
> My theory is that the serum gave him the power of flight.  We've seen that power types can run similarly in bloodlines.  Nathan was different because his powers were fake.  Now that Peter's powers are fake too, perhaps he was just gifted with the same power as his brother.  So instead of being set up as a foil for Sylar, Peter is instead being set up as a foil for Nathan.




I think that's a pretty seriously large departure for the show. I doubt it.

The mythos of the series is that the hero serum gives you a power that is already encoded in your genes. You get what your latent dominant power is. 

Peter's dominant power of absorption is already present; ergo, that's what he gets. Peter's immediate power of flight in the presence of Nathan is certainly consistent with that - though it does not rule out a redirection. What you suggest is possible I suppose. But...

I doubt that the writers will let go the possibility of nerfing Peter's powers with this reset though.  They seem to go to great efforts to nerf them otherwise throughout the arc of the series.

It is possible, however, that they don't go that route. "We'll see".

The big surprise was leaving Hiro without his powers. We'll see how that works itself out. My guess, as stated earlier, is that there is some vestigial power left, but without Ando there, it's not enough to manifest. Alternatively, Vol IV is a quest for the return of Hiro's power. (Or both).

We do know that the formula has existed before and was used on at least Nathan and Nikki/Tracy/Barbara.  Samples from that original formula may well be locked up in the Company's Vault in Odessa as that seems to be where they kept the  other dangerous viral samples.  That Vault was not disturbed by the fire outside NYC, so presumably it's still there - and would allow Hiro to get his full powers back at some point.


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## Merkuri (Dec 17, 2008)

_(By the way, spoilers aplenty in this post and I ain't bothering to cover them up.  I'm assuming that if you're this far through this thread that you've seen the episode already.)_

I feel almost cheated by this season.  It was enjoyable, but I feel like they set up a lot of prophesies and we saw not one of them come true.  Not even a little.  I was waiting to see little hints or signs or warnings that we were coming up on the future that everyone wanted to prevent, but we didn't even get close.  I got a little excited when Peter got slashed across the face, thinking "scar!" but then I realized it was in the wrong place.  

It's like they prevented that future so early in the season that the rest of it wasn't even worth going through.  I'm hoping that maybe they'll pull some of that forward into next season, but doubt it.  

The first season (by far the best - they could've ended it there and I would've been happy) felt very circular.  It was complete.  I saw the ending coming from a mile away (Peter exploding and Nathan carrying him up to where he couldn't hurt anyone) but felt... I guess the best word would be "fulfilled" to see it come through.  Nothing like that in this season.  It's like they didn't even make an effort to close the loop this time - like there was no thought for the ending when they started writing the beginning.

Regarding Ando's powers: I will bet money that in the next season we see Hiro being jealous of Ando having powers.  It's a complete turnaround for the duo, with Hiro powerless and Ando powered-up.  That's bound to come up at some point, at least once.

Regarding future use of the formula: The catalyst seems to be gone.  I doubt that even if Hiro hadn't torn up the formula (and somebody get a lighter, please! tearing up a piece of paper does not make it unreadable) that it could be used again simple because the catalyst died in Pa Patrelli.

Oh, and about Peter getting his powers back and them being reset... did anyone else notice that at the end of the episode when Nathan and Peter were talking in the forest (or wherever that was) that Peter's cheek wound was no longer visible?  Was that just the lighting, or did he heal it?

Just out of curiosity... why does everybody keep referring to Noah Bennet as HRG?  It's been a very long time since he's been the mysterious man in the horn-rimmed glasses.  It actually took me a while reading these threads to figure out that HRG=Noah.


----------



## Staffan (Dec 17, 2008)

LightPhoenix said:


> On another Matt/Daphne/Ando note... I like that Matt pointed out how powers were related to condition.  It makes a lot of sense that Ando has always wanted to help powered people (Peter, Hiro, Matt/Daphne), and so his power is a reflection of that.



It was Daphne who said it, not Matt. And I've been saying that powers are linked to desires since season 1.


Niki is being beaten by her dad, so she develops super-strength to defend herself.
DL was in prison and needed to get out.
Nathan was in a car being chased by thugs, and needed to get out.
Matt's a cop and wants to know other people's secrets (though in his case we also have the bloodline thing).
Hiro, from what I can tell, just wanted to manipulate time and space.
Micah was interested in tech stuff.
Claire was trapped in a burning building as a baby and needed to survive.
Mohinder talked about how his formula could give him wondrous abilities like strength or speed, and those were the abilities he got (together with some side effects).
Maya hated her brother's wife and wanted her dead dead dead.
I'm still thinking that other supers in the series could probably expand their powers as well, but Syler and Peter (and now Arthur) are the only ones who have developed an ability that lets them do so on a somewhat intuitive level. Peter has the empathy thing going, and Syler has the ability to figure out how things work.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Dec 17, 2008)

Merkuri said:


> Just out of curiosity... why does everybody keep referring to Noah Bennet as HRG?  It's been a very long time since he's been the mysterious man in the horn-rimmed glasses.  It actually took me a while reading these threads to figure out that HRG=Noah.




Because Noah turns into HRG when he enters into butt-kicking mode. It's like his alternate identity.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 17, 2008)

I actually do not assume that Peter was reset. But I might be wrong.


----------



## Merkuri (Dec 17, 2008)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I actually do not assume that Peter was reset. But I might be wrong.




It makes sense for his powers to be reset.  In the "science" of the Heroes universe the formula was supposed to give you your innate power.  Peter's innate power was being able to mimic the powers from others.  There was nothing innate about his ability to fly, or heal, or shoot lightning, or telekinesis, or any of the powers he picked up along the way.  So logically it should only give him his mimic ability back and he'd need to pick up a new repertoire of other powers.

Like other people have said, it seems like the writers are always looking for ways to nerf the time traveling angle.  From that point of view it also makes sense for Peter's powers to be reset because it means that no major character has time travel powers anymore.

Edit: One thing I wondered, though... and I feel like I had this same thought earlier in the series... why didn't Nathan fly himself?  Those flames obviously didn't reach the ceiling.  He really has no instinct for when to use his abilities.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Dec 17, 2008)

Merkuri said:


> In the "science" of the Heroes universe the formula was supposed to give you your innate power.




Except for the whole eclipse angle. But then I find things go better when I start ignoring large chunks of Volume 3 and especially anything to do with the eclipse episodes.


----------



## arnon (Dec 17, 2008)

> did anyone else notice that at the end of the episode when Nathan and Peter were talking in the forest (or wherever that was) that Peter's cheek wound was no longer visible? Was that just the lighting, or did he heal it?




First thing I looked for when they showed his face: the cut/wound was there. No healing for Peter... yet.


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## fba827 (Dec 17, 2008)

Slight threaddrift -- but did anyone watch the webisode that just started on nbc's website, "The recruit" that partially takes place at the same time pinehurst is getting blown up?

While the power shown isn't necessarily new for the show, the implementation had a cool factor ...
[sblock]
Nightcrawler style "Bamf!" and smoke cloud
[/sblock]


----------



## wolff96 (Dec 17, 2008)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I actually do not assume that Peter was reset. But I might be wrong.




What I would *really* like to see is a division between "Natural" and "Synthetic" abilities.

So Peter was an Empath naturally (hero parents) and could vaccuum up powers, using them at any time.  But then his father permanently drained his abilities and he resorted to the formula to save his brother.

His new, synthetic ability is weaker -- so he can only use the powers of those around him, not access the full suite (except when Ando super-charges him, perhaps...)  That *still* allows him to face Sylar, since he would automatically have all the same tools at his disposal in a showdown.  It also means that no matter how much they power Sylar up or down, Peter could STILL always match him toe-to-toe.

They could do the same thing to Hiro -- give him back his power, but no Time Travel without help from Ando.  Then he could just teleport and slow time to a crawl... which is still ridiculously useful.

I doubt it will happen, but that's what I would LIKE to see.  And since I got part of my wish about Hiro, maybe I'll luck out.    I still think it would have been great to see him show up in the future, when Ando is discovering his new "Super-Charge" ability, as bad-ass Hiro 16 years older (and with the formula in hand).

-----------------------------------

One last thought:  Someone up-thread mentioned that Peter couldn't get invisibility back if his powers were reset.  Umm...  Why not?  Nothing has happened to Claude other than he went (deeper) into hiding.  

They proved last season you could find him with Infrared goggles and he only bent visible light...  Peter could theoretically find him again if he needed to do so.


----------



## Staffan (Dec 17, 2008)

Merkuri said:


> Edit: One thing I wondered, though... and I feel like I had this same thought earlier in the series... why didn't Nathan fly himself?  Those flames obviously didn't reach the ceiling.  He really has no instinct for when to use his abilities.



If you're in an enclosed space, you generally don't want to be directly above the flames. Heat tends to rise upward, and oxygen tends to flow downward (since it's heavier than air).

Not that that would matter all that much if you're flying at the speeds Nathan is capable of.


----------



## Merkuri (Dec 17, 2008)

Staffan said:


> Not that that would matter all that much if you're flying at the speeds Nathan is capable of.




I guess my point was, "Why didn't Nathan do what Peter did?"  Theoretically they both have the same power and actually Nathan should have the better grasp of his power since it's natural to him (they've showen that Peter sometimes has trouble controlling his powers).  It really should have been Nathan flying out of that room, not Peter.

Unless they're trying to play the angle that Nathan really wants to be normal to the point where he doesn't remember he has his power in a life-and-death situation.


----------



## Mark (Dec 17, 2008)

Maybe the point is that Nathan doesn't react as quickly as Peter or that he is less aware or perceptive.  Maybe they just wanted to even the score for the save-by-flying during the saving of NY.  They're even, now.


----------



## fba827 (Dec 17, 2008)

remember that nathan still somewhat rejects his power, while peter accepts and embarces it as part of his being.  while peter always first opts for the powered solution (when attacked, he'll first try and use his powers, etc), nathan has in fact always opted for the "mundane" response (talking, running, swinging) and only resorts to his power when push comes to shove, that could explain some hesitation on nathan's part.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 18, 2008)

Or, more thematically: Peter is the hero, Nathan is not.  Helping people comes instinctively to him; it's part of his empathy.  He'll use the tools at his disposal to save people, which in this case was the formula.


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## RangerWickett (Dec 18, 2008)

Alternately, the writers didn't care to spend the 30 seconds it would take to write, "Something falls on Nathan's head, knocking him out, so only Peter can save him." Or heck, "Nathan starts to walk down the fire escape, Peter asks why he doesn't fly away, and Nathan replies that he is a real human, just like everyone else, and he doesn't cheat. So Peter sighs, grabs him, and flies away."


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 18, 2008)

In terms of Nathan leading a gitmo thing... wouldn't someone eventually 'narc' on him?

"Crap, you can fly! In with the rest of 'em."


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 18, 2008)

JoeGKushner said:


> In terms of Nathan leading a gitmo thing... wouldn't someone eventually 'narc' on him?
> 
> "Crap, you can fly! In with the rest of 'em."




Problem is how can you prove he could fly when his having powers was not genetic?  The only way they could do it would be to drop him from a plane (or building) and see what happens.


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## delericho (Dec 18, 2008)

Once again, the Heroes writers crammed too much into the final episode of their arc. Last year it was at least excusable, what with the strike, but this time out it just wasn't. It was a very poor episode.

Five things particularly annoyed me:

- Daphne goes and gets the formula to power-up Ando, and picks up one dose. Because obviously they only need one dose - it's not like there's anyone else they know who could benefit from getting his powers back.

(Besides, this show needs some 'normal' characters in principle roles to act as contrasts to the heroes. HRG, Ando and Mohinder, in particular, should never be given powers. That 2 out of 3 now have is a very bad thing.)

- Matt gives the techno-babble explanation about Daphne being able to run backwards through time. The problem with this is that, back in the first season, Matt was introduced as being a nice guy, but not very smart. He has failed the exams to become detective on several occasions, and he can't read. He was the wrong person to give that explanation - it should have come from Ando. (This, unfortunately, gives Matt nothing to do in that scene but take up space, but that's better than breaking his character like this.)

- Besides, if Daphne runs fast enough, she can travel _backwards_ through time. How exactly is she supposed to get back? Gosh, if only they knew a time-traveller, and had some means to restore his powers...

- And then there's poor Hiro. I can forgive them leaving him de-powered, although it makes me not want to watch any more. What is particularly annoying, though, is that he's faced with his father, one of the few people who actually would understand the truth, and his father is giving him an opportunity to explain who he is and why he's trying to steal the formula... so he doesn't.

Of course, if Hiro did destroy the formula in the past, that would have compelled a Reset Button ending, which would have been absolutely disasterous. And yet, I think it would probably have been the best possible ending this time out. I for one wish I could wake up and find this volume was just a dream.

- Finally, there's the end of the Sylar arc, for the moment at least. Leaving aside the annoyance that he _still_ isn't dead, when he should have died at the end of the first season, there's the problem that Claire snuck up on him. The problem here? Sylar has had super-hearing for quite some time. The writers conveniently forgot this (for the second time this season). They might even have gotten away with it, had the plague in season 2 acted as a reset for Sylar's ability, but it didn't - he retained the telekinesis he picked up as his first supplemental power.

Anyway, I'm afraid that's it for me. The "mutant registration" storyline has been done before, and Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan are better actors than (almost) anyone on Heroes.


----------



## Dire Bare (Dec 18, 2008)

delericho said:


> Matt gives the techno-babble explanation about Daphne being able to run backwards through time. The problem with this is that, back in the first season, Matt was introduced as being a nice guy, but not very smart. He has failed the exams to become detective on several occasions, and he can't read. He was the wrong person to give that explanation - it should have come from Ando. (This, unfortunately, gives Matt nothing to do in that scene but take up space, but that's better than breaking his character like this.)



I'd have to rewatch Season 1, but I'm pretty sure Matt was never portrayed as "not too bright" but rather he is dyslexic . . . which does not equate to stupidity, but it does make it harder to succeed in school and on tests of all sorts, and dyslexics often grow up feeling stupid and not too bright.  Besides, if Matt was any sort of dork growing up, it's perfectly reasonable for him to perk up and pay attention to nerdy stuff like relativity and the theoretical possiblity of time travel.  And he didn't give a "technobabble" explanation of it, he just mentioned he heard it's possible in school.


> Finally, there's the end of the Sylar arc, for the moment at least. Leaving aside the annoyance that he _still_ isn't dead, when he should have died at the end of the first season, there's the problem that Claire snuck up on him. The problem here? Sylar has had super-hearing for quite some time. The writers conveniently forgot this (for the second time this season). They might even have gotten away with it, had the plague in season 2 acted as a reset for Sylar's ability, but it didn't - he retained the telekinesis he picked up as his first supplemental power.



 Sylar was a bit distracted with the woman he wants to be his mom.  Claire could have rolled into the room in a tank and surprised him.


----------



## Arnwyn (Dec 18, 2008)

Well... if nothing else, I thought the very end was pretty good (and no, not just because it was ending, haha!).

AFAIC, I hope everything from Vol 4 on just 'forgets' what happened during Season 3. If I never hear about that idiot future with the big black thing (WeverTF that was) again it'll be a good thing. (Yeah, I doubt that it'll happen, but I'll still hope.)




delericho said:


> The problem with this is that, back in the first season, Matt was introduced as being a nice guy, but not very smart. He has failed the exams to become detective on several occasions, and he can't read.



I thought he was supposed to be reasonably smart, just dyslexic.


----------



## rowport (Dec 19, 2008)

delericho said:


> - Daphne goes and gets the formula to power-up Ando, and picks up one dose. Because obviously they only need one dose - it's not like there's anyone else they know who could benefit from getting his powers back.
> 
> (Besides, this show needs some 'normal' characters in principle roles to act as contrasts to the heroes. HRG, Ando and Mohinder, in particular, should never be given powers. That 2 out of 3 now have is a very bad thing.)
> ...
> - And then there's poor Hiro. I can forgive them leaving him de-powered, although it makes me not want to watch any more. What is particularly annoying, though, is that he's faced with his father, one of the few people who actually would understand the truth, and his father is giving him an opportunity to explain who he is and why he's trying to steal the formula... so he doesn't.



A few thoughts:
1. Does anybody recall (or care enough to check) what the special effect looked like in the future where Ando "attacked" Hiro?  I wonder if what looked like him attacking was in fact his "jumpstarting" Hiro's powers back in action.
2. I am actually fine with Ando and Hiro trading the power/sidekick roles.  Both actors are really solid, with good chemistry between them.  While the storyline to get there is rather thin the outcome is OK with me.  It certainly would be a "beefier" role than acting like you are ten years old for three or four episodes...!
3. I do agree that keeping "normals" in the mix is really important for character development.  Frankly, I wish there was no reference to "artificial" powers at all (although I realize that is now a crucial plot point for lots of stuff on the show).


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## Merkuri (Dec 19, 2008)

rowport said:


> 1. Does anybody recall (or care enough to check) what the special effect looked like in the future where Ando "attacked" Hiro?  I wonder if what looked like him attacking was in fact his "jumpstarting" Hiro's powers back in action.




I don't remember what the effect looked like, but they were definitely fighting.  I seem to recall that one of them had the formula and the other one wanted to take it.  There was no chance it was a power-up from what I remember.


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## Steel_Wind (Dec 19, 2008)

Yes, Ando was hitting Hiro with his "red lightning power-up". He then took the formula. No, it is obvious Ando was not trying to hurt Hiro. He seemed exasperated by Hiro's resistance to handing over the formula.

That does not mean that And owas trying to power up Hiro. I think Ando knows that a quick power up to the non-suspecting can overwhelm them.


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 19, 2008)

Relique du Madde said:


> Problem is how can you prove he could fly when his having powers was not genetic?  The only way they could do it would be to drop him from a plane (or building) and see what happens.





This assumest that there are zero changes to a person's physical biology outside of the 'super power'.

Which would mean anyone who was given the old shots would be able to pass it no? We know of at least two others still out there (the living two of the tripplets.)


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## Felon (Dec 19, 2008)

delericho said:


> - Matt gives the techno-babble explanation about Daphne being able to run backwards through time. The problem with this is that, back in the first season, Matt was introduced as being a nice guy, but not very smart. He has failed the exams to become detective on several occasions, and he can't read. He was the wrong person to give that explanation - it should have come from Ando. (This, unfortunately, gives Matt nothing to do in that scene but take up space, but that's better than breaking his character like this.)



"He can't read"? I doubt Matt got as far as he did being completely illiterate. He's got some dyslexia. At any rate, I doubt that the detective exams covered the theory of relativity. Knowing a few science facts isn't exactly recasting the character as an egghead. Non-issue here.



> - Finally, there's the end of the Sylar arc, for the moment at least. Leaving aside the annoyance that he _still_ isn't dead, when he should have died at the end of the first season, there's the problem that Claire snuck up on him. The problem here? Sylar has had super-hearing for quite some time. The writers conveniently forgot this (for the second time this season). They might even have gotten away with it, had the plague in season 2 acted as a reset for Sylar's ability, but it didn't - he retained the telekinesis he picked up as his first supplemental power.



Yeah, it reminds me of the Highlander TV series, where McLeod should've become the most awesome warrior in the world (not to mention a master of pretty much every skill) within a few seasons of chopping off one or more heads per episode, but instead he was unchanging. Yet people forgave and the show endured, what, eight repetitive seasons?

The only way for them to explain this is to come out and say that not all of Sylar's powers "stick". Sometimes he reads a brain, keeps the power for a little while, then eventually his ability to use the power atrophies as his hunger drives him to keep grabbing more and more powers. He either loses the understanding (like most people forget what they learned in high-school French class), or he has a physical buffer like the X-Men's Mimic. 

This would explain all of the many, many powers he's acquired and the very few he's actually hung on to, just like he'll soon forget to be a lie detector.


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## delericho (Dec 19, 2008)

Arnwyn said:


> I thought he was supposed to be reasonably smart, just dyslexic.




You (and Dire Bare) might well be right.


----------



## satori01 (Dec 19, 2008)

Arnwyn said:


> AFAIC, I hope everything from Vol 4 on just 'forgets' what happened during Season 3.




Funny that is what people said this season about Season 2.  So if we forget Season 2 and Season 3,  we are left with 1 good season out of 3....methinks if we Forget another season, show is dead.

I really did not like this episode.  It felt flat.  It highlighted what are to me the three problems of the show:

1) inconsistent Characterzation and execution.  I loved Nathan in Season 1 but it seems clear to me he should have died in the Peter blast.  Ambitious, intelligent, some what self centered, the chosen boy by his patrician family, and very much trying to make his own name, and loving of his brother.

Season 2 he was a whinny meatloaf, and now he resents Peter.   Brother vs Brother is a good idea, but the character execution has been horr-i-ble.

Surresh is so laugh able it is a joke.  Good thing about this season is we learned why Adam was locked in a cell.....apparently super healing makes you super annoying.....Claire has to go.  The show has demonstrated the hardway that "Defensive "powers  Healing, Flight....just are not that useful.

2) The scope and progression of the powers moves at the speed of plot.  One of the things I liked about Season 2 is we saw that powers and their applications improved w/ experimentation.   Matt became more than a mind reader, but also able to implant thoughts.   At the early part one had to wonder, was their a limited set of powers, with different expressions being the result of different skill level....or not having learned that application.  Alas no.....w/ the show in constant "save our ass, save our jobs" mode...any systematic explanation is gone....which the geek in me laments.

3) No plan.  The great shows on TV have to have very well thought out multi year plans.  Network shows are competing against Basic and Subscription Cable shows which the very best are willing to break the rules and have very tight scripting.  Lost and Alias for the first 3 years are Network shows that compare favourably to shows like True Blood,  6 feet under, and The Shield.

It is well publicizied that "regulars" where not intended originally.  The show has lost the confindence.  It was a great low level adventure, that is now stumbling in the mid levels.


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## Elodan (Dec 19, 2008)

delericho said:


> ...
> The "mutant registration" storyline has been done before, and Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan are better actors than (almost) anyone on Heroes.




I have to say while I enjoyed this episode a lot, this thought crossed my mind as well when I saw the preview of the next chapter.  I'll give it an episode or 3 and see where it goes.


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## Arnwyn (Dec 19, 2008)

satori01 said:


> Funny that is what people said this season about Season 2.  So if we forget Season 2 and Season 3,  we are left with 1 good season out of 3....methinks if we Forget another season, show is dead.



Yep. That sounds like Season 2 and 3 of Heroes to me. (And, it turns out, I loved Season 2 when compared to S3. Yeah, I said it.)

It didn't help that S3 took on some of the (dreadful) story of S2.


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## Richards (Dec 21, 2008)

delericho said:


> - Besides, if Daphne runs fast enough, she can travel _backwards_ through time. How exactly is she supposed to get back?



This bothered me as well.  It instantly reminded me of Calvin and Hobbes, when they're trying to fly into the future and end up instead in the far distant past, being menaced by dinosaurs, simply because Calvin "drove" his time machine cardboard box in the wrong direction.  So, after having gone backwards in time to rescue Hiro, did Daphhne and Ando simply run in the opposite direction to get back to the present?

That's just silly, even by _Heroes_ "science."

Johnathan


----------



## Krug (Dec 21, 2008)

Mark said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> "How do you know so much about Einstein, Einstein?"




I almost puked on that one.


----------



## Blastin (Dec 21, 2008)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned President "Worf" yet.....


----------



## Mark (Dec 21, 2008)

Blastin said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned President "Worf" yet.....





Is Heroes replacing Stargate as the series to cast out of work Sci Fi TV talent?


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## delericho (Dec 22, 2008)

Blastin said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned President "Worf" yet.....




I don't think it's realistic to think America could ever have a president that isn't an old rich white guy. 

(I hope that doesn't stray into "no politics" land. I was just kidding.)

Seriously, he should be good in the role, but there really wasn't anything more than the slightest of teasers there.


----------



## DonTadow (Dec 22, 2008)

Richards said:


> This bothered me as well.  It instantly reminded me of Calvin and Hobbes, when they're trying to fly into the future and end up instead in the far distant past, being menaced by dinosaurs, simply because Calvin "drove" his time machine cardboard box in the wrong direction.  So, after having gone backwards in time to rescue Hiro, did Daphhne and Ando simply run in the opposite direction to get back to the present?
> 
> That's just silly, even by _Heroes_ "science."
> 
> Johnathan




So, cross fingers, hopefully they will explain it like this, hiro still has his powers, limited teleport, with ando he can fast forward through time.  daphne has speed and can go backwards.


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## Mark (Dec 22, 2008)

Richards said:


> This bothered me as well.  It instantly reminded me of Calvin and Hobbes, when they're trying to fly into the future and end up instead in the far distant past, being menaced by dinosaurs, simply because Calvin "drove" his time machine cardboard box in the wrong direction.  So, after having gone backwards in time to rescue Hiro, did Daphhne and Ando simply run in the opposite direction to get back to the present?
> 
> That's just silly, even by _Heroes_ "science."
> 
> Johnathan






Since Hiro lost his powers in the past they could conceivably go back even further to the time before he lost the powers and have that Hiro bring them all forward.


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## Krug (Dec 22, 2008)

Well I've decided to give up. And I want all the time I put in this season back. Season 2 was forgivable; this season was definitely not.


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## Mark (Dec 22, 2008)

Krug said:


> Well I've decided to give up. And I want all the time I put in this season back.






There's only one person who can help and he is currently 16 yrs in the past without his powers.


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## Blastin (Dec 22, 2008)

delericho said:


> I don't think it's realistic to think America could ever have a president that isn't an old rich white guy.
> 
> (I hope that doesn't stray into "no politics" land. I was just kidding.)
> 
> Seriously, he should be good in the role, but there really wasn't anything more than the slightest of teasers there.




heh....I just thought it was funny. As soon as I heard his voice I thought, "Cool, now Syler is in trouble. Even he can't stand against a Kilngon!"


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 23, 2008)

delericho said:


> I don't think it's realistic to think America could ever have a president that isn't an old rich white guy.
> 
> (I hope that doesn't stray into "no politics" land. I was just kidding.)
> 
> Seriously, he should be good in the role, but there really wasn't anything more than the slightest of teasers there.



But doesn't a frigging Klingon sound still too unlikely?!


----------



## Blastin (Dec 24, 2008)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> But doesn't a frigging Klingon sound still too unlikely?!




not in the heroes 'verse


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 24, 2008)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> But doesn't a frigging Klingon sound still too unlikely?!




Maybe that's what Mohinder was trying to change himself into.


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## Steel_Wind (Dec 24, 2008)

Was that Michael Dorn? I didn't even notice WHO the actor was (as he was shot with a half face shrouded in shadow).  It seemed to me that the camera direction was trying to reach for an Obama-likeness to the President.  I was marvelling at this audacity so much that I didn't pick up that the actor in question was Michael Dorn as the President.

My bad.   

(And assuming it was Michael Dorn....*cool*.)


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## stonegod (Dec 24, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> (And assuming it was Michael Dorn....*cool*.)



It was. I noted him in the credits at the beginning and was trying to figure out who was going to be. I figured a grunt...


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 24, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> I didn't even notice WHO the actor was (as he was shot with a half face shrouded in shadow).  It seemed to me that the camera direction was trying to reach for an Obama-likeness to the President.  I was marvelling at this audacity so much that I didn't pick up that the actor in question was Michael Dorn as the President.
> )




Heh heh  I thought that was funny since it showed me that NBC had guts.  I mentioned this earlier (on page one of the thread), but my post was devoured by ENWorld.


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## Arnwyn (Dec 29, 2008)

Blastin said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned President "Worf" yet.....



Not explicitly, but that's what I was implying when I said (a page ago):



			
				Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Well... if nothing else, I thought the very end was pretty good


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## Fast Learner (Jan 2, 2009)

Daphne+Ando could theoretically move through time both ways, I think (though my relativity is very weak): she travels faster than light and moves backwards in time, she travels just shy of the speed of light and moves forward in time. No?


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## drothgery (Jan 3, 2009)

Fast Learner said:


> Daphne+Ando could theoretically move through time both ways, I think (though my relativity is very weak): she travels faster than light and moves backwards in time, she travels just shy of the speed of light and moves forward in time. No?




Well, effectively; if you're moving at an appreciable percentage of the speed of light, then time slows down for you relative to the rest of the universe. So she could go fast enough that sixteen years to the rest of the universe would be only seconds to her. That's the easy part. 

Going back in time is trickier, because it requires infinite energy for something with a rest mass to reach _c_, let alone exceed it.


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## Krug (Feb 2, 2009)

At least their NFL spot was entertaining: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNKP0KLwbE]YouTube - NBC commercial Heroes VS NFL (Super Bowl XLIII 43 2009)[/ame]


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