# Runesmith - Wizards in Fullplate



## xazil (Aug 13, 2004)

The Runesmith prestige class, from Races of Stone, can be entered into easily at 6th level with only one hard requirement for a dwarven wizard. Heavy armor proficiency.

The first level grants the ability to cast all wizard spells without a somatic component.  But requires an extra material componet.  

Has 3.5 gone so far that granting a wizard the ability to use the heavist of armors and shields doesn't really upset balance?

Because of the need for lots of hp and higher CR monsters having big to-hit bonuses, AC does matter a lot less in 3.5, but is this just too far for level 6?


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## The Souljourner (Aug 13, 2004)

You know, I'm thinking about it, and no, it's not really that big of a deal.  Wizards are more crippled by their low hitpoints than low AC.  With shield and mage armor, they can easily get the equivalent of full plate, without the max Dex restriction.  

Keep in mind that heavy armor proficiency requires a non casting class.  What other prerequisites and benefits does the class have?   If that's its major claim to fame, I don't think it's that big a deal.

-The Souljourner


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## two (Aug 13, 2004)

I think you underestimate the power of armor and shield.

I assume a Fighter1/Wizard6 build can qualify for the Prestige Class?  (I don't have it myself).

I think a dwarven Wizard6/Fighter1 running around with Full Plate +2 and a +2 large shield, giving an all-day +14 to AC, is yes a little too good.  Throw in a Tower Shield for silliness, and it's whacked.

Armor and Shield bonuses can't be dispelled usually, are active when flatfooted, and don't take up any actions to get up.    Etc.

I'd be a little wary.


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## Bauglir (Aug 13, 2004)

The wizard doesn't even have to give up a caster level - they can simply buy Heavy Armor Proficiency as a feat.


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## mikebr99 (Aug 13, 2004)

Bauglir said:
			
		

> The wizard doesn't even have to give up a caster level - they can simply buy Heavy Armor Proficiency as a feat.



Sure.. and 2 other armor feats before that.


Mike


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## Zweischneid (Aug 13, 2004)

> The wizard doesn't even have to give up a caster level - they can simply buy Heavy Armor Proficiency as a feat.




Not quite.. he'd have to by Light and Medium Armor proficiency first, so 3 Feats total if you really want to go that way.


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## Planesdragon (Aug 13, 2004)

Wizards aren't THAT much more powerful offensively than clerics--thus, an increased AC doesn't help them that much.

 Especially given that armor does nothing against grappling--a quick rogue or monk who moves next to an opposing armored wizard and grapples him effectively takes the wizard out of the fight.

 (To say nothing of the fact that armor does nothing for a wizard in a spell battle...)


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## dvvega (Aug 13, 2004)

Actually Wizards were always able to use full plate and shields from the beginning of 3.0 - of course they would suffer the chance of spell failure.

This was easily bypassed by a Craft Wand Wizard who stored all his spells in wands. In fact he was more useful in the long run since he'd have 50 charge wands of all his spells as opposed to only 2 or 3 per day.

So the Runesmith, from what I know of it, takes 6 levels to attain, and allows you to cast your spells in armour with extra material components. Are these components more expensive? What is the downside of this ability?

I'd prefer to be a "Wand Wizard" than wait to become a Runesmith.


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## Bauglir (Aug 13, 2004)

Zweischneid said:
			
		

> Not quite.. he'd have to by Light and Medium Armor proficiency first, so 3 Feats total if you really want to go that way.



Oops  

Even so, 3 feats might even be preferential to losing that all-important caster level.


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## Ramaloke (Aug 13, 2004)

Well, look at this

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Spellsword 4/Eldricht Knight 10, now assuming your going to level 20, and you take the practiced spellcaster feat, 

you have spells per day as a 16th level wizard, which means youve got 4 /4/4/4/4/4/3/3/2
You have a BAB of 17 (10 Eldricht Knight, 1 Fighter, 4 Spellsword, 2 Wizard)

If your armor is mithril and has the Twilight Ability from  BoED, then you can wear all armors and shield save for tower shield with a 0% chance of Arcane Spell Failure, tack on the Arcane Strike feat, and you are a pretty scary person, I think its kind of broken.


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## reanjr (Aug 13, 2004)

xazil said:
			
		

> The Runesmith prestige class, from Races of Stone, can be entered into easily at 6th level with only one hard requirement for a dwarven wizard. Heavy armor proficiency.
> 
> The first level grants the ability to cast all wizard spells without a somatic component.  But requires an extra material componet.
> 
> ...




I'm a stickler for game balance, but just today I created a prestige class for one of my players that includes armored spellcasting.  Granted it's not 6th level (you can get light armor by 5th and heavy armor by like 12th) but I don't think the armor thing is that big of a deal.  What equipment you are allowed to use isn't really a balancing issue.  It's more flavor.


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## Scion (Aug 13, 2004)

Still spell.

Take this feat, apply it to all spells that have a somatic component. Now you can wear armor without worry.

Since the alternative seems to be taking a level or two in levels other than primary caster anyway there is little difference in spell levels cast here. But the caster is still a primary caster and doesnt have to do it if they dont need/want to (for spells that arent somatic or wont be cast in combat) and so they are still ahead of the other build.

Even if arcane failure was gotten rid of completely I doubt there would be any issues. it just isnt a balancing point, merely flavorful.

In my games I have made everyone suffer from arcane spell failure.. unless they are proficient with the armor they are wearing and then there is no arcane failure at all. Effectively this simulates the game exactly as it is now, except the silly arcane failure can be gotten around with planning (taking a level of a fighting class, spending feats, whatever).


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## Saeviomagy (Aug 17, 2004)

two said:
			
		

> I think you underestimate the power of armor and shield.
> 
> I think a dwarven Wizard6/Fighter1 running around with Full Plate +2 and a +2 large shield, giving an all-day +14 to AC, is yes a little too good.  Throw in a Tower Shield for silliness, and it's whacked.




I think you overestimate the abilities of armour class when it applies to wizards. A +14 to AC is NICE, sure. But is it (at the cost of 9500gp+ no less) worth a caster level or 3 feats? Maybe.

Which just goes to show that the ability is balanced.


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## xazil (Aug 17, 2004)

Just to add a bit, the big thing before was an Eldritch Knight build could have BAB 16 and Caster level 17 along with a few bonus feats for about 40hp less on average at 20th level than a fighter.  A 20th level with 20 Con fighter is about 210, verus say 170 for a Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Runesmith 4/Eldritch Knight 10.

Runesmith fills the last gap the EK was missing, good armor.   The spell sword could be used to overcome that with the loss of more casting power, but now you can have both.  Perhaps although comparing it to a fighter isn't the best, the Runesmith now moves this build up into cleric comparison class.

Returns to pondering.


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## Shard O'Glase (Aug 17, 2004)

I personally think arcane spell failure should be removed, but this prestige class can be troublesome in the sense that every level gives spellcasting advancement, it gets the rune magic as an option, it gets at I think 3rd level the ability to put a rune spell on another persons items and they can then activate the spell.  It costs a spell slot of 2 levels higher.  And at 5th it gets an ability to put a rune on their body where they then give a spell slot permanently in order to cast a spell 2 times a day as a spell like ability.  It gets d6 hps per level which helps a smidge.


I don't know if this makes it unbalnced or not, it has a high entry cost likely  a loss of a spell level.


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## rangerjohn (Aug 17, 2004)

Unless you take the practiced spellcaster feat.


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## Misirlou (Aug 18, 2004)

In all honesty, wizards don't have terribly bad AC without armor anyway.

Since a wizard only needs Int to be at all functional, his next ability can easily be Dex.  By the time you have access to some magic items, 16 or 18 dex isn't at all unheard of on a wizard.

The key is Mage Armor.  1 hr/level.  A medium-level wizard can have this up perpetually at the cost of two low-level spell slots.  One, with Extend Spell.  And he can cast Shield if he ever needs a bit extra for a tough fight.

So, between Dex bonus and Mage Armor, he can have +8.  Full plate only allows +9 anyway.

Finally, a mithral buckler can be used without Spell Failure, and can be enchanted.


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## Teslacoil1138 (Aug 18, 2004)

I'd have to argue that Con is the most important attribute after Int for wizards, or Cha for a sorceror. +1 HP a level for 2 points of Con instead of a steady +1 Dex AC for 2 points of Dex? That's an easy choice to make... Combine a high-ish Con with Improved Toughness and a mage can make up for one of his major weaknesses: low HP.


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## Taluron (Aug 18, 2004)

I've read the class and don't have a problem with it per-se. But I'm not sure Eldritch Knight and Spellsword builds are where it can be most abused. I'd be more concerned about a Cl/Wz/Mystic Thuerge/Runesmith. The Runesmith removes one item that most point to as a large balancing factor to a mystic thuerge - they usually don't wear the clerics armor.

Not sure how big a problem this is, if any. But that would concern me more than EK or SS builds.


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## firefox7 (Jun 25, 2012)

Well, why not use armored mage class if your worried about the armor proficiency, which allows you to cast spells equally to your fighter level.


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## Sekhmet (Jun 26, 2012)

I <3 Necro.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 26, 2012)

Sekhmet said:


> I <3 Necro.



Ewww, necrophilia.


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## Empath Negative (Jun 26, 2012)

Wonder if any of these players have died...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 26, 2012)

> cookthomasd
> has no status.
> 
> Registered User
> ...



Reported


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## xigbar (Jun 26, 2012)

dannyalcatraz said:


> reported




constant vigilance!


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