# Liriel Baenre?



## Lurks-no-More (Nov 12, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Liriel dosen't belong in RAS's novels, just as Drizzt dosen't belong in EC's novels.
> 
> As for my feelings on Liriel, that's another topic for another thread.




Okay, I'm curious!
What are your feelings on Liriel?

Personally, I find her (based on Daughter of Drow and Tangled Webs) less angsty than Drizzt (always a plus), and given that she's ostensibly CN, is a more likely than another good drow. Though I didn't like the whole "rune magic" thing, or the way EC bundled her up with that Rashemeni berserker so quickly.


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## Berandor (Nov 12, 2003)

I didn't like she and the Berserker becoming lovers. But other than that, I really like her, because she's really CN and not another good drow.  Somehow, she's more sympathetic than goody Drizzt.

B


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## JacktheRabbit (Nov 12, 2003)

I find her to be a rather annoying wankfest by a fanboy author who loves all things drow.

1. Who makes the strongest drinks? Drow of course.

2. Who are more devious by 10 then any other race? Drow of course.

3. Who can create wands that turn the wielder into a Lichdrow? Drow of course.

4. What are the most powerful lich of all? Drow of course.

5. What are of course more evil and powerful than any Banshee? a Drow banshee of course.

The more you read the more you can hear the author m********* in the background.


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## diaglo (Nov 12, 2003)

made sense to me why she and the barb hooked up. i just don't see it as long term. love 'em and leave 'em.


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## diaglo (Nov 12, 2003)

DocMoriartty said:
			
		

> The more you read the more you can hear the author m******** in the background.





i think *Elaine* would take offense to this.

as do i.


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## JacktheRabbit (Nov 12, 2003)

diaglo said:
			
		

> i think *Elaine* would take offense to this.
> 
> as do i.





Good for you. Too bad I do not care what your opinion happens to be. 

As for Elaine maybe she should write a little less of the fanboy genre and I will be a little more polite when describing her books.


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## Eridanis (Nov 12, 2003)

Doc -

Check your email, please.

Strike that; my email to you bounced. I've taken the liberty of editing your post for you.


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## JacktheRabbit (Nov 12, 2003)

Eridanis said:
			
		

> Doc -
> 
> Check your email, please.
> 
> Strike that; my email to you bounced. I've taken the liberty of editing your post for you.





If you felt that needed to be edited then thanks for the effort. I stand by what I said. She is no better as an author than Salvatore both of which write little more than massive fanboy fanfics.


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## Eridanis (Nov 12, 2003)

DocMoriartty said:
			
		

> I stand by what I said. She is no better as an author than Salvatore both of which write little more than massive fanboy fanfics.




While I enjoy Elaine's Elfsong novels (on a there's-nothing-else-to-read-so-I'll-read-a-Realms-novel level), I think Salvatore's writing is pretty bad. I think he single-handedly turned me off to drow. Thus, I haven't even touched any of Cunningham's drow novels.


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## JacktheRabbit (Nov 12, 2003)

Eridanis said:
			
		

> While I enjoy Elaine's Elfsong novels (on a there's-nothing-else-to-read-so-I'll-read-a-Realms-novel level), I think Salvatore's writing is pretty bad. I think he single-handedly turned me off to drow. Thus, I haven't even touched any of Cunningham's drow novels.




The concepts in the books are very simple. Basically use every other sentance to talk about everything Drow is bigger, meaner, stronger, more evil, darker, etc etc etc than anything else anywhere.

Now mix in the female drow equivalent to a spoiled teenager from the suburbs and you have Elaine's books on the drow.


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## Sirius_Black (Nov 12, 2003)

Okay DocMoriartty...which authors have written about drow within a novel that met to your satisfaction?


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## JacktheRabbit (Nov 12, 2003)

Sirius_Black said:
			
		

> Okay DocMoriartty...which authors have written about drow within a novel that met to your satisfaction?





Cannot say that there is one that I have read. Cunningham and Salvatore both heroworship fanboy the drow throughout their books and I have not read any others.

If someone could suggest one I would pick it up but since Fantasy Novels are so hit and miss I have pretty well stopped reading them.


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## Dark Jezter (Nov 12, 2003)

DocMoriartty said:
			
		

> The concepts in the books are very simple. Basically use every other sentance to talk about everything Drow is bigger, meaner, stronger, more evil, darker, etc etc etc than anything else anywhere.
> 
> Now mix in the female drow equivalent to a spoiled teenager from the suburbs and you have Elaine's books on the drow.




Exactly.  In Elaine Cunningham's novels, elves (and drow in particular) are the best at everything they do.  Her novels read like they were written by a fanboy (or fangirl, rather) elf player.

As for Liriel, she does act like a spoiled teenaged girl.  You took the words out of my mouth, Doc. 

I really enjoy R.A. Salvatore's novels, but can't stand Elaine Cunningham's novels, despite the fact that they both write about drow.


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## takyris (Nov 13, 2003)

Interesting.  I'm torn between thinking that DocMoriarty is being rude and abrasive and finding myself forced to agree with him.  Which, let me tell you, is uncomfortable.

I haven't read Salvatore in awhile, pretty much for the same reasons that people have mentioned -- the goodness of the simple story held together by a bunch of fun fight scenes got overwhelmed by the badness of "drow are cool and evil" with occasional helpings of "dwarves are comic relief".

I like Cunningham's other stuff -- the fun and quirky romance of Danilo and Arilyn is good romantic-comedy-adventure fodder on a Sunday afternoon -- but the Liriel stuff never caught on with me.  I read the first novel and one of the short stories in some anthology, and never bothered with anything else.  It just wasn't doing it for me.


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## John Crichton (Nov 13, 2003)

I'm a huge RAS fan and his drow stuff goes from average to great for me, so I won't even get into that.

I did read the first 2 by EC and I think I enjoyed them at the time.  However, I remember next to absolutely nothing of what happened.  I recall liking the main character and the way she used magic and something about going to the surface but other than that, nada.  I guess that means that they may not have been very good for them to not stick into my memory at all.

Maybe one day I'll re-read them as I own both.  In hardcover no less....

*shrugs*


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## Alzrius (Nov 13, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> In Elaine Cunningham's novels, elves (and drow in particular) are the best at everything they do.




For the most part, I read this as being somewhat in-character, since in the Realms elves tend to usually be completely in love with themselves as a culture. On the other hand, I really hated that whole _wand of lichdrow_ thing...that part really bothered me from a gamer's point of view.



> _You took the words out of my mouth.
> 
> I really enjoy R.A. Salvatore's novels, but can't stand Elaine Cunningham's novels, despite the fact that they both write about drow._




Ironically, Jezter, you took the words right out of my mouth here.


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## Sirius_Black (Nov 13, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> I really enjoy R.A. Salvatore's novels, but can't stand Elaine Cunningham's novels, despite the fact that they both write about drow.




And I'm the exact opposite. I look at R.A. Salvatore's writings with...well let's just say I sent the last R.A. Salvatore novel to a foreign country very quickly after I read it. Besides wanting to send it to a service member I had befriended on the WOTC message board, I figured I'd be safer with as much distance between myself and that book as possible.  

Kinda like those guys in the decon suits on last night's 24.  Only picture instead of a virus, a typical Drizzt novel.  I can see the scene now.

Jack Bauer: "Tony! The book is loose. I repeat, the Salvatore book is loose."

Tony: "Copy Jack. We're tracking it right now. Moving in to intercept, but we're being delayed by a couple of fat guys dressed up like Neo from the Matrix in long black trenchcoats."

Jack: "Damn it!"

Tick tock..tick tock..tick tock..tick tock.


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## Sirius_Black (Nov 13, 2003)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Maybe one day I'll re-read them as I own both.  In hardcover no less....*shrugs*




How did you get the first two Liriel books in hardcover? They were only released in paperback. What powers do you have Mr. Crichton? Or is that your real name?


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## John Crichton (Nov 13, 2003)

Sirius_Black said:
			
		

> How did you get the first two Liriel books in hardcover? They were only released in paperback. What powers do you have Mr. Crichton? Or is that your real name?



Untrue.  I bought them the day they came out in Waldenbooks.

The original covers can be seen here:

http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/novels/8553.htm

http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/novels/8557.htm

I have the power of Google.  Fear me.


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## Celtavian (Nov 13, 2003)

*re*

Some of you are a little hard on the Realms writers. I read _Daughter of the Drow_. I didn't think it read like fan fic. It was a drow centric novel, and the main characters barely had any contact with other races. Kind of hard to see how the drow stand up to other groups, and of course the drow think they are the best.

To answer the question, I thought Liriel was an interesting character. She wasn't particularly evil or good. She wasn't angst-ridden. Just a young adventurous drow girl wandering the world looking for a different life from the one she was supposed to have. Enjoyable read.


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## diaglo (Nov 13, 2003)

takyris said:
			
		

> Interesting.  I'm torn between thinking that DocMoriarty is being rude and abrasive and finding myself forced to agree with him.  Which, let me tell you, is uncomfortable.






i am in complete agreement. i don't necessary dispute what Doc said just his choice of words.




> I haven't read Salvatore in awhile, pretty much for the same reasons that people have mentioned -- the goodness of the simple story held together by a bunch of fun fight scenes got overwhelmed by the badness of "drow are cool and evil" with occasional helpings of "dwarves are comic relief".
> 
> I like Cunningham's other stuff -- the fun and quirky romance of Danilo and Arilyn is good romantic-comedy-adventure fodder on a Sunday afternoon -- but the Liriel stuff never caught on with me.  I read the first novel and one of the short stories in some anthology, and never bothered with anything else.  It just wasn't doing it for me.





i read all of the novels. but that may just be out of habit. or to see where WotC/TSR will go with the game stuff. don't for one minute think that stuff in the novels doesn't leak into the game source material and vice versa.


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