# Meta-Mechanics Worth Stealing



## mmadsen (Jan 30, 2007)

A number of games introduce a cool mechanic (or meta-mechanic) that can be used in other games without too much work.

For instance, _Ars Magica_ introduced the notion of *troupe play*, where each player has multiple characters of different power levels and plays one of them each session.

_Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ took the idea of *drama points* and added a twist: weaker, "supporting cast" characters get more drama points than powerful characters like the Slayer.

_Pendragon_ introduced stats for personality traits, in opposed *trait pairs*: Chaste / Lustful
Energetic / Lazy
Forgiving / Vengeful
Generous / Selfish
Honest / Deceitful
Just / Arbitrary
Merciful / Cruel
Modest / Proud
Pious / Worldly
Prudent / Reckless
Temperate / Indulgent
Trusting / Suspicious
Valorous / Cowardly​These stats can be used _descriptively_, to reflect how a character has acted, or _prescriptive_, to determine how a character should act.  Characters with high (or low) enough scores in the right traits can gain bonuses for being, for instance, a good Christian knight.

Also, between adventures, _Pendragon_ characters go through a *winter phase*, during which they age, advance their personal lives (court a lady, marry, sire heirs), maintain their lands, etc.

_Champions_ introduced the idea of separating *special effects* from game mechanics.  It doesn't matter what kind of _energy blast_ your superhero uses -- fire, mutant eye beams, magical bolts -- under the hood, the game relies on the same basic mechanics.

_Feng Shui_ espouses the notion that the game should encourage, rather than discourage, "cool" actions, so *stunts* suffer no penalties for difficulty.

_Feng Shui_ also suggests plotting your game to include *three action sequences* in "awesome" locales and to  think up a short list of *cool things that could happen* at each location -- bits of the scenery that might explode, good spots for people to fall down from, stuff that can be picked up and thrown, etc.

_Sorcerer_ recommends that every character start with a *kicker*, something that just happened (before the start of play) to kick the character into action.

In _The Shadow of Yesterday_, characters have *keys* -- motivations, problems, connections, duties, and loyalties -- and are rewarded (with experience points) for acting on them. Further, a character can earn a particularly large one-time reward with a *buyoff* -- acting opposite the key and giving it up forever.

In _D&D_, a player can *Take 10* on a d20 roll, automatically succeeding at easy enough tasks without risking a die roll.  Also, a player can *Take 20* on a d20 roll for an action with no negative consequences, rather than rolling the die repeated until a natural 20 occurs.

In _Stormbringer_, each character begins play with a single *trinket of personal significance*.

_Unknown Armies_ introduces multiple *madness meters* -- Violence, Unnatural, Helplessness, Isolation, and Self -- for different kinds of mental trauma.  Failing a _stress check_ forces a character to _fight_, _fly_, or _freeze_ while accumulating a _failed_ point on that meter; 5 failed points means temporary insanity.  Succeeding at a stress check forces a character to accumulate a _hardened_ point; 10 hardened points mean the character has become a cold-blooded sociopath.

In _7th Sea_, disadvantages grant bonuses only when triggered, not at character creation.


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## mmadsen (Jan 30, 2007)

Can you recommend any similar "meta-mechanics worth stealing" for your own game?  Have you used any of these in your own game?


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## Thanee (Jan 30, 2007)

The d6 System Wild Die

Bye
Thanee


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## iwatt (Jan 30, 2007)

True20 has the *Take 5* mechanic Similar to the take 10 rule, but it can be used even during stressful situations. You're just that good.


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## MoogleEmpMog (Jan 30, 2007)

The character creation system from _Spirit of the Century_; each player creates a character by coming up with some basic genre-appropriate traits (similar to Shadow of Yesterday's keys) and then fleshes out his character by coming up with the title and premise of a pulp novel the PC starred in - as well as guest-starring in other PCs' books or series prior to the start of the game.

*Patience*, from _Super Console_, is a *brilliant* metagame mechanic.  Basically, each player starts with a pool of Patience and may expend it to achieve a variety of effects (such as searching every nook and cranny of cleaned-out dungeon, fighting a no-threat mook battle, or solving a puzzle) that would otherwise take time with little gameplay component; in SC itself, it actually allows you to level up, but that's because it's a 75-level system rather than 20-level like d20.  Not only does it speed up gameplay, it tells you exactly what the players are/aren't interested in!

Also, I don't really think you can call _Champions_' effects-based mechanics a 'meta-mechanic' in the same sense as these others.  It's a design philosophy that has to be implemented from the ground up, not something you can bolt onto an existing system.

Another that would be hard to bolt on after the fact, though less so than the principles of the HERO system, is the way conflict is escalated in _Dogs in the Vineyard_: the player chooses how much risk he wants to put his character in/how important a given conflict is to him, but gets greater effects if he 'bids' higher consequences.

EDIT: Removed redundant bits, added more.


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## howandwhy99 (Jan 30, 2007)

Background - almost everything you listed and any imaginable number of other mechanics fit right into a background.  They can be as simple as the "cool starting weapon with history and mystery" to a split personality character where some stats are different depending on the personality currently in control.


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## Frostmarrow (Jan 30, 2007)

Of course you have the dreams, foreshadowing, past events, and so on which you play with expendable characters to flesh out the story in Vampire The Masquerade.

The swashbuckling cards courtesy of Scratch Factory (and us, apparently) adds immensly to any game. (Used them in CoC last night. "Drop your weapon..." saved my character from being eaten by a byakhee. Just so you know. )


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## Someone (Jan 30, 2007)

> Feng Shui espouses the notion that the game should encourage, rather than discourage, "cool" actions, so stunts suffer no penalties for difficulty.
> 
> Feng Shui also suggests plotting your game to include three action sequences in "awesome" locales and to think up a short list of cool things that could happen at each location -- bits of the scenery that might explode, good spots for people to fall down from, stuff that can be picked up and thrown, etc.




I've used those two in D&D with some success.

Also, Feng Shui gives some good advice on how to handle mooks - enemies that can't dream on scratching the PCs, and who are expecting to die (or maybe it wasn't the book, but a web page with advice on how to run feng shui games)


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## Mishihari Lord (Jan 30, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> In _The Shadow of Yesterday_, characters have *keys* -- motivations, problems, connections, duties, and loyalties -- and are rewarded (with experience points) for acting on them. Further, a character can earn a particularly large one-time reward with a *buyoff* -- acting opposite the key and giving it up forever.




That sounds really interesting.  Can you give some more detailes on how it works?


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## Mark Hope (Jan 30, 2007)

Torg's Drama Deck.  Players are given cards that they can play to get bonuses on different types of action, or play them to introduce subplots into the game.  DMs use the cards to moderate the flow of combat and resolve large-scale dramatic skill resolution.


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## soulforge (Jan 30, 2007)

*Riddle of Steel*

Riddle of Steel has spiritual attributes.  Spiritual Attributes are basically character motivations.  They are activated when a character does an activity that would trigger that Spiritual Attribute.

ex.)  I'm a cleric of BaJebus.  I'm walking down the hallway with a higher cleric of BaJebus.  An assassin jumps out to kill the higher cleric.  I have a spiritual attribute in my religions w/ x number of dice.  Riddle of Steel uses a dice pool system.  Now when I pull my mace and move forward to battle the assassin I've activated my Religion Spiritual attribute.  It gives me x number of dice extra in my pool.


The system works well in RoS where combat is always deadly.  The SA system sorta forces your hand so that your unlikely to enter into combat unless your character really believes in it.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Jan 30, 2007)

The Grim Tales 'fight or flight' mechanic.  When faced with something that provokes a horror check, characters have a choice -- flee, and then face an easier check, or stand their ground and risk the consequences.  The kicker is that each player decides in secret, and everything is revealed at once.  Watching one guy stand his ground while his comrades flee is just priceless.


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## mmadsen (Jan 30, 2007)

Mishihari Lord said:
			
		

> That sounds really interesting.  Can you give some more detailes on how it works?



Fortunately, the entire list of keys (and secrets, which are like feats or special abilities) is available on Clinton R. Nixon's The Shadow of Yesterday site.  Some examples: *Key of Bloodlust*
Your character enjoys overpowering others in combat. Gain 1 XP every time your character defeats someone in battle. Gain 3 XP for defeating someone equal to or more powerful than your character (equal or higher combat skill.) Buyoff: Be defeated in battle. 

*Key of Conscience*
Your character has a soft spot for those weaker than their opponents. Gain 1 XP every time your character helps someone who cannot help themselves. Gain 2 XP every time your character defends someone with might who is in danger and cannot save themselves. Gain 5 XP every time your character takes someone in an unfortunate situation and changes their life to where they can help themselves. Buyoff: Ignore a request for help.

*Key of the Coward*
Your character avoids combat like the plague. Gain 1 XP every time your character avoids a potentially dangerous situation. Gain 3 XP every time your character stops a combat using other means besides violence. Buyoff: Leap into combat with no hesitation.​


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## Voadam (Jan 30, 2007)

I like the nature/demeanor rules in VtM 1e and 2e (the only versions I played).

A bunch of archetypes. Pick one to describe how you act outwardly. Pick one to describe your true inner nature and motivation. Anytime a condition matches your true nature you regain a willpower point (will power points can be used to gain an autosuccess on a roll, or resist certain forced conditions temporarily (such as charms) action points would be similar in D&D/D20).


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## mmadsen (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanee said:
			
		

> The d6 System Wild Die



Could someone explain the _d6 System_ *wild die*?


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## Pbartender (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm really fond of Instincts and Beliefs from _Burning Wheel_ as roleplaying guidelines for characters.


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## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2007)

MoogleEmpMog said:
			
		

> *Patience*, from _Super Console_, is a *brilliant* metagame mechanic.  Basically, each player starts with a pool of Patience and may expend it to achieve a variety of effects (such as searching every nook and cranny of cleaned-out dungeon, fighting a no-threat mook battle, or solving a puzzle) that would otherwise take time with little gameplay component....  Not only does it speed up gameplay, it tells you exactly what the players are/aren't interested in!



That is an _excellent_ mechanic for dungeon crawls -- maybe even better than wandering monsters.


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## DeadlyUematsu (Jan 31, 2007)

I like the madness meters and fear/nobility/rage traits from Unknown Armies. Along the same lines, I also like Beliefs and Instincts from the Burning Wheel. Finally, I like the idea of Edge from Marvel SAGA.


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## Victim (Jan 31, 2007)

The River mechanic in Weapons of the Gods lets a player store up good die rolls to use later, thus promoting the kind of "get beat up early, win in the end" fights common in media.


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## Ry (Jan 31, 2007)

I tried something in my campaign that was a HUGE HIT.

Huge.

Anyway, it's an action point mechanic that is totally unambiguous in what it does.

*Conviction (i.e. Action Points):*

You get Conviction = to half your level +4.
Conviction Resets daily.
Conviction is used as below.

*1 Conviction:*
Add 1d6 to a roll (declare before you roll)
Add 1d6 to AC, or the DC of the action where you resist (like Spell resistance) (before opponent rolls)
Take an extra move-equivalent action

2 Conviction 
Add 2d6 to a roll for an action you take (declare before you roll)
Add 2d6 to a DC or AC of an action you resist (declare before you roll)
Take an extra standard action (declare before you start acting)

*X Conviction:*
If you still have conviction left when your character would die, you can spend whatever Conviction you have left to reduce the damage you've taken by 1d6 per Conviction poitn spent.  If this brings you above zero you are still unconscious.


I give villains, boss monsters, and PCs Conviction, minor NPCs and lesser monsters don't get it.


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## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2007)

Frostmarrow said:
			
		

> Of course you have the dreams, foreshadowing, past events, and so on which you play with expendable characters to flesh out the story in Vampire The Masquerade.



I wasn't aware of that one.  Vampire recommends that you play out clairvoyant dreams with expendable characters?  I may have to give that a go...


			
				Frostmarrow said:
			
		

> The swashbuckling cards courtesy of Scratch Factory (and us, apparently) adds immensly to any game. (Used them in CoC last night. "Drop your weapon..." saved my character from being eaten by a byakhee. Just so you know. )



How did a "Drop your weapon..." card save you from being eaten by a byakhee?


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## fuindordm (Jan 31, 2007)

I've always liked the idea of exploding dice for damage and certain other things. 
(If you roll the maximum number, you reroll and add to the total, ad infinitum.)

The Patience idea is very good indeed.


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## Ry (Jan 31, 2007)

Players roll all the dice from ... well, any system where players roll all the dice.

I am so sick of going back to the table all the time.  I'm usually standing when I GM, moving a lot, gesturing a lot.


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## Ry (Feb 1, 2007)

I like keys, but I think they're better when they give everybody xp instead of just one player.  Ties the players' goals together, so even the combat-monkey wants to go back to town and be "supporting cast" for the social stuff that will also get xp.


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## Psion (Feb 1, 2007)

Another *Feng Shui* bit ripe for plundering... instead of working everything together with lots of backstory, you start with your characters about to get into a fight, and then the players explain why they are about to get it a fight.


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## mmadsen (Feb 1, 2007)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> The Grim Tales 'fight or flight' mechanic.  When faced with something that provokes a horror check, characters have a choice -- flee, and then face an easier check, or stand their ground and risk the consequences.  The kicker is that each player decides in secret, and everything is revealed at once.  Watching one guy stand his ground while his comrades flee is just priceless.



I like it.  Sometimes adding realism adds fun.


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## mmadsen (Feb 1, 2007)

Voadam said:
			
		

> I like the nature/demeanor rules in VtM 1e and 2e (the only versions I played).
> 
> A bunch of archetypes. Pick one to describe how you act outwardly. Pick one to describe your true inner nature and motivation. Anytime a condition matches your true nature you regain a willpower point (will power points can be used to gain an autosuccess on a roll, or resist certain forced conditions temporarily (such as charms) action points would be similar in D&D/D20).



Another excellent meta-mechanic -- like keys, spiritual attributes, etc., but with the twist of a true inner nature versus an outward demeanor.  I found a list of archetypes, for anyone interested.  A few examples: *Analyst*: Anything can be explained rationally, and you will explain it. Regain willpower when your rational/scientific method helps solve a major problem. (A)

*Architect (aka Maker and Builder)*: You desire to leave a legacy, tangible or intangible. This could be anything from an artistic masterpiece to a successful organization you founded to a new tradition you started.. Regain Willpower when you create something of great importance and/or lasting value (G, WPG2).

*Autist*: You live inside your shell. Revealing the 'real' you could be the worst thing that could ever happen. Regain Willpower when you manage to keep someone entirely out. (WPG)

*Autocrat*: You must be in control in all times of all situations. RegainWillpower when you maintain control during a situation and success is guaranteed. (VPG2)

*Avant-Garde*: You must be the first to know everything. Nothing is established, no gossip is spread without you having known it first. A good nature for irritating Torries. Regain Willpower when you make an exciting discovery regarding the society in which you're involved. (VPG2)​


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## DeadlyUematsu (Feb 1, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> I like keys, but I think they're better when they give everybody xp instead of just one player.  Ties the players' goals together, so even the combat-monkey wants to go back to town and be "supporting cast" for the social stuff that will also get xp.




"Group Keys"? That's a really cool idea! Why couldn't I have thought of it?


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## Ry (Feb 1, 2007)

The keys are still on each individual player's character sheet, but yeah, they work for the group.

ANd that list of Archetypes is a BADASS list of keys.


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## mhensley (Feb 1, 2007)

Pbartender said:
			
		

> I'm really fond of Instincts and Beliefs from _Burning Wheel_ as roleplaying guidelines for characters.




Yep, me too.  I used these ideas to get my players to round out their wfrp characters in my present game.  BW is a goldmine of gamemaster theory.


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## mmadsen (Feb 2, 2007)

mhensley said:
			
		

> Yep, me too.  I used these ideas to get my players to round out their wfrp characters in my present game.  BW is a goldmine of gamemaster theory.



Could someone explain *beliefs* and *instincts* from _Burning Wheel_?


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## painandgreed (Feb 2, 2007)

I like GURPS quirks.


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## Jeph (Feb 2, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Could someone explain *beliefs* and *instincts* from _Burning Wheel_?




*Beliefs* are exactly what they sound like. Write down three things that your character believes. Typically, you have one representing your character's past, one tying you into the situation at hand, and one to act as a flag for how you want the story and your character to develop. When your beliefs cause interesting things to happen -- for instance, if your "I am the rightful heir to the throne" belief leads you to throw down in a duel against another contender -- you get Artha, which is kinda analogous to Action Points in some d20 games.

*Instincts* are three things that your character does, even when you don't specify them. You don't have to tell the GM your character is doing their instinct. It is assumed that they always do. Examples: "I always carry enough coin to buy room and board for a few nights at a good in," "I always start combat in aggressive stance," or "if I'm surprised, I cast Blade Bind at the enemy." They're usually I Always, I Never, or If/Then deals. They can also help you get around roadblock actions in combat. For instance, if an instinct says that you draw your sword whenever you detect a  threat, you don't need to spend an action getting out your weapon. When Instincts make trouble for you -- say, you end up casting Blade Bind on the maid when catches you off guard and the master of the house kicks you out as a result -- you get a slightly-less-kickass type of Artha.


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## Wik (Feb 2, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Could someone explain the _d6 System_ *wild die*?




Sure.

When a player rolls his skill dice, one of his dice is the wild die.  It's usually a different colour.  If that roll comes up as a 1, the player either a) takes away the highest die result he rolled, or b) some sort of critical fumble has occured.  If the result is a 6, you get to roll another wild die (but these new wild dice cannot roll critical fumbles, only critical successes).  In essence, the wild die means that 1/3 of all die rolls result in some sort of critical element, bringing a healthy dose of "the dice are out to kill me" to the table.


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## Wik (Feb 2, 2007)

I like the "Keep the players in the game" mentality found in a lot of the new D&D rules.  

Reserve Feats allow wizards to make actions every round.  Dragon Shamans can keep the group at least partially healed for every encounter - there's no limit to how often they can do it.  Marshalls have boosts that are always in effect.  Warlocks have unlimited spells.  

I love the idea behind these, because they function to keep the players into the game - whereas a wizard might only have a handful of "top-notch" spells that he has to save for what he figures will be the "Big" encounter. Any mechanic designed to keep the action of the game high is all aces in my book.

***

DARK SUN had the character tree variant, which had players roll up 4 different characters that were connected in some way.  Thus, when a character dies (which happens often on Athas), a player can rather quickly have a new character that is already grounded in the campaign as opposed to the "you meet a new adventurer in the tavern a day later who shares the exact same goals as you" syndrome.

***

SHADOWRUN awarded XP for players who made the tabletop experience fun, even if their characters were absolute rubbish.  It's one of the few games I can think of that says "A player who makes the game more fun to play deserves an extra point or two"


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## Slife (Feb 2, 2007)

Can't remember what RPG it was from, but...

If an opposed check between a PC and a NPC is a tie, the PC wins it.


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## GreatLemur (Feb 2, 2007)

MoogleEmpMog said:
			
		

> Also, I don't really think you can call _Champions_' effects-based mechanics a 'meta-mechanic' in the same sense as these others.  It's a design philosophy that has to be implemented from the ground up, not something you can bolt onto an existing system.



I disagree.  By it's very nature, it's an idea that's separate from--and thus can work independent of--a system's mechanics.  You can easily apply the same idea to D&D, and let a character's throwing axes be awesome, African-style throwing irons, or let a Sorcerer's powers be the result of weird, techno-magical implants instead of a draconic heritage.  A _magic missile_ can look like a little flying demon that shrieks through the air towards its caster's target, if a player wants it that way.  Whether you call this a meta-mechanic or a design philosophy, it's definitely something that can be applied to other games.


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## mmadsen (Feb 2, 2007)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *Beliefs* are exactly what they sound like. Write down three things that your character believes. Typically, you have one representing your character's past, one tying you into the situation at hand, and one to act as a flag for how you want the story and your character to develop. When your beliefs cause interesting things to happen -- for instance, if your "I am the rightful heir to the throne" belief leads you to throw down in a duel against another contender -- you get Artha, which is kinda analogous to Action Points in some d20 games.



Thanks, Jeph, for explaining the meta-mechanic (and thanks to everyone else who has done likewise).

So the interesting twist is that _Burning Wheel_ has the player define three *beliefs*: one _past_, one _present_, and one _future_.  I like it.


			
				Jeph said:
			
		

> *Instincts* are three things that your character does, even when you don't specify them. You don't have to tell the GM your character is doing their instinct. It is assumed that they always do. Examples: "I always carry enough coin to buy room and board for a few nights at a good in," "I always start combat in aggressive stance," or "if I'm surprised, I cast Blade Bind at the enemy." They're usually I Always, I Never, or If/Then deals. They can also help you get around roadblock actions in combat. For instance, if an instinct says that you draw your sword whenever you detect a  threat, you don't need to spend an action getting out your weapon. When Instincts make trouble for you -- say, you end up casting Blade Bind on the maid when catches you off guard and the master of the house kicks you out as a result -- you get a slightly-less-kickass type of Artha.



This is _perfect_ for D&D.


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## Pbartender (Feb 2, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Thanks, Jeph, for explaining the meta-mechanic (and thanks to everyone else who has done likewise).
> 
> So the interesting twist is that _Burning Wheel_ has the player define three *beliefs*: one _past_, one _present_, and one _future_.  I like it.




I'd forgotten about that...  I'll have to remember it for next time.

Here's an example from one of player-characters from my current Iron Heroes game:



> *Mirzah The Thief, aka "Arshama the Spice Merchant"*
> 
> Adjectives*:
> sly, devious, extravagant, witty, adaptable, resourceful, easygoing
> ...





*I also have the players list seven adjectives that fundamentally describe their character.  The idea is that with those seven adjectives, the beliefs and the instincts anybody should be able to roleplay this character true to form.


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## Ry (Feb 4, 2007)

Totally worth a *bump*


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## Jeph (Feb 4, 2007)

My favorite meta-mechanic is the 'currency' bonus from Sorcerer. It's a dice pool system where a successful roll results in one or more victories (think Successes from a white wolf game and it's pretty much the same thing). Your victories from one roll can become bonus or penalty dice on any related roll.

So say you're playing a thief, and you're trying to lift a key from the pocket of an NPC clerk. You roll your test and just fail -- the NPC wins with one victory. So when you try to save your hide by distracting the clerk ("what in the world could that be?!"), he'll get one bonus die to not be fooled. But say you win that test with two victories: then _you'll_ get two bonus dice on your attempt to beat it and lose him in the crowd.

You can port it over into nearly any system. It's easiest with dice pools like nWoD, but you can also do it with d20. A +2 bonus, with another +2 per 5 full points of your margin of success, seems balanced for D&D.


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## Thomas D (Feb 4, 2007)

One I like that I haven't used yet is _Burning Wheel_'s *Duel of Wits*, available free at the Burning Wheel wiki.  You know how a game session can just bog down because two or three players have different ideas of what actions to take and you spend an hour debating what to do?  With Duel of Wits, you all script out debate maneuvers like Dismiss, Avoid the Topic, and Point to do social damage to each player's position.  In-game debates are resolved by the characters using the character's skills at negotiation, debating, and persuading instead of by whichever player can argue the best (or loudest/longest).

I've used _Donjon_'s *Provisions* to great effect.  It cuts down on a lot of the shopping/equipping that slows down games.  During the game session, if you need something that's not on your standard gear list, you just make a Provisions roll or spend a Provisions point to get the thing you need.  You make the roll, you've had it all along.

While not a mechanic, I've stolen props of a sort from _Primetime Adventures_' *Fan Mail*.  In games where the PCs have Hero Points or Fate or Karma or whatever you call them -- you know, spend a point and get some sort of bonus or game effect to help your character -- use tokens.  Poker chips, coins, glass beads, whatever.  If you have a stack of poker chips in front of you, you're going to remember to use them more than if it was just another scribble on a character sheet.  Plus it just feels good to toss a physical object onto the table -- PLUNK.  "I get to add 10 to that roll."


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## LostSoul (Feb 4, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> So the interesting twist is that _Burning Wheel_ has the player define three *beliefs*: one _past_, one _present_, and one _future_.  I like it.
> This is _perfect_ for D&D.




Hmm, that's not how we're playing it.  We're using beliefs as goals that drive play.  (Also left out, I think, is that if you act against a belief you get some Artha/"action points".  Which makes it really good mechanically to have beliefs that conflict each other.  It also makes for good drama.)

If you were going to do a dungeon-crawl Burning Wheel game, you might have a belief like "My temple needs cash to fight against the onslaught of evil.  I will go into the Caves of Chaos and take their ill-gotten loot."  Then you get some Artha when you loot guys, and if you clear out the Caves of Chaos you get better Artha.

People have played that dungeon-crawl Burning Wheel.  Here's one guy's beliefs:


> - There's too much evil in this world to sit idle in a temple and not bash in its head! God demands action!
> - By assisting me against the evil, my companions earn the grace of God. I will make them realize this and join me in celebrating His name.
> - This castle is just the tip of an evil iceberg. I will vanquish it in God's name and expose further plots of wickedness.


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## jdrakeh (Feb 4, 2007)

The Demeanor/Theme wheels in _The Chronicles of Ramlar_ are neat, as they cut down on the bookeeping where XP is concerned, while allowing players to work toward both meta-goals (e.g., raising an attribute rating) and story goals (e.g., aquiring the rank of Captain in the Elven army). Also, the resulting progression is organic (i.e., natural in terms of the game setting) as opposed to artifical (i.e., there are no overnight growth spurts). 

Also, the Supreme Bull!@$! Action rule from the fan-created _Orange Road_ game is a very easy way to inject "anime" into your games -- once per game session a character can do something that totally smashes the fourth wall and shreds the game setting's standard physics something awful. For example, your charcter may do some crazy Jet-Li wire-fu and walk across a battlefield atop moving arrows (i.e., arrows in flight).


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## Matrix Sorcica (Feb 4, 2007)

_Let It Ride_ from Burning Wheel.


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## eyebeams (Feb 4, 2007)

Jeph said:
			
		

> My favorite meta-mechanic is the 'currency' bonus from Sorcerer. It's a dice pool system where a successful roll results in one or more victories (think Successes from a white wolf game and it's pretty much the same thing). Your victories from one roll can become bonus or penalty dice on any related roll.
> 
> So say you're playing a thief, and you're trying to lift a key from the pocket of an NPC clerk. You roll your test and just fail -- the NPC wins with one victory. So when you try to save your hide by distracting the clerk ("what in the world could that be?!"), he'll get one bonus die to not be fooled. But say you win that test with two victories: then _you'll_ get two bonus dice on your attempt to beat it and lose him in the crowd.
> 
> You can port it over into nearly any system. It's easiest with dice pools like nWoD, but you can also do it with d20. A +2 bonus, with another +2 per 5 full points of your margin of success, seems balanced for D&D.




It's a good system; magic rules in Mage: The Ascension also uses this kind of porting principle. The thing you have to be careful of is compromising niche protection, since it's otherwise possible to have a guy be good at everything for the price of successive arguments about serial applicability. That's why other iterations of this sytem introduce diminishing returns or a cap on stacking. It also accentuates differences in ability, which is great in some situations but kind of sucks for the underdog.


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## eyebeams (Feb 4, 2007)

Sorcica said:
			
		

> _Let It Ride_ from Burning Wheel.




Ugh. I can't stand Let it Ride. It was designed with good intentions (rolls should be meaningful, GMs shouldn't call for rerolls when they don't get what they want), but in execution it's actually kind of brutal to players. Even the example in the book goes from saying how the rule will protect players from GM arbitrariness, to an example of play where the GM uses it to arbitrarily hose the player by denying a new roll to track. Generally, when the example of play is the opposite of the stated design goal, that's no good.

I think a rule that works much like this, where the initial roll is the baseline for deviations using similar rolls of that type, would be a step up. In other words, rolling well means future rolls in that series will usually also do well, but not *exactly* as well as the first roll.


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## eyebeams (Feb 4, 2007)

My nomination: The d20 Diplomacy skill and attitude rules. They're clean, applicable to multiple games and serve as a way for the DM to submit NPC reactions to player intervention without just making a snap ruling. Attitude stages can also be scaled up to large groups pretty easily.

Oh yeah -- also, descriptor-based traits as found in Over the Edge, FATE, etc.


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## roguerouge (Feb 4, 2007)

*interesting developments*

I've always liked how essential d20Modern made the starting occupation and its level dependent action points kick ass.


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## Matrix Sorcica (Feb 4, 2007)

eyebeams said:
			
		

> I think a rule that works much like this, where the initial roll is the baseline for deviations using similar rolls of that type, would be a step up. In other words, rolling well means future rolls in that series will usually also do well, but not *exactly* as well as the first roll.



Not a bad idea at all.


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## Aus_Snow (Feb 4, 2007)

* Virtue & Vice (True20).
* Nature & Demeanour (oWoD).
* Lifepath (CP2020 and others).
* Attack/Defence, Magical Attack/Magical Defence, Stealth/Perception, Speed/Evasion (Dragon Warriors).
* Noun/Verb magic [and kindred subsystems] (Ars Magica, Changeling and various others).


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## LostSoul (Feb 5, 2007)

eyebeams said:
			
		

> My nomination: The d20 Diplomacy skill and attitude rules. They're clean, applicable to multiple games and serve as a way for the DM to submit NPC reactions to player intervention without just making a snap ruling. Attitude stages can also be scaled up to large groups pretty easily.




Ugh.  I can't stand the d20 Diplomacy rules.  In practice, the roll rarely does anything - the vague nature of the attitudes means that the DM just has his NPC do whatever he was going to do anyway.


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## Henrix (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm surprised that nobody has nominated any form of scene framing rules - like in My Life With Master, Burning Empires, Primetime Adventures (although I haven't seen those), etc.

Rules for how scenes are built, who can have one, etc.

I have managed to use really good MLWM style scenes in D&D when the characters were in a big city (Greyhawk). Basically they all got to have a scene, involving just them and, if they wanted, other characters, in the order they sat around the table.

By cutting aggressively, and keeping scenes short, all got to have their scenes without being bored. All got to do what they wanted, no need to keep the party together.

I'm not sure how to implement scenes as a limited resource (as in Burning Empires) in D&D without leaving standard D&D adventures altogether, yet.


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## Greg K (Feb 5, 2007)

eyebeams said:
			
		

> Ugh. I can't stand Let it Ride. It was designed with good intentions (rolls should be meaningful, GMs shouldn't call for rerolls when they don't get what they want), but in execution it's actually kind of brutal to players.




Wow   . In my years of experience it is the players calling rerolls when they don't get what they want


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## mmadsen (Feb 6, 2007)

Aus_Snow said:
			
		

> Virtue & Vice (True20).
> Nature & Demeanour (oWoD).
> Lifepath (CP2020 and others).
> Attack/Defence, Magical Attack/Magical Defence, Stealth/Perception, Speed/Evasion (Dragon Warriors).
> Noun/Verb magic [and kindred subsystems] (Ars Magica, Changeling and various others).



Would anyone like to explain any of these?


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## Herse (Feb 6, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Would anyone like to explain any of these?




Noun/Verb magic system

Briefly, in Ars Magica the magic system is comprised of 15 Arts divided into 5 Techniques and 10 Forms. The Techniques are what one does (verb) and the Forms are the objects one does it to or with (noun). By combining one Technique with one Form you generate spell effects. Characters have skill levels in these Arts. The Arts are named in Latin.

The Techniques are named after the corresponding first-person singular present tense indicative mood Latin verb.

Creo: "I create"
Intellego: "I understand" 
Muto: "I change"
Perdo: "I destroy"
Rego: "I rule or control"

The Forms are named after the corresponding singular accusative Latin noun.

Animal: "animal"
Auram: "air"
Aquam: "water" 
Corpus: "the (human) body" 
Herbam: "plant" 
Ignem: "fire" 
Imaginem: "image" i.e., senses and perception
Mentem: "mind" 
Terram: "earth" 
Vim: "pure magic"

Technique + Form makes for a spell. E.g., Creo Ignem creates fire.

Also, you can cast stronger formulaic spells with set effects or weaker spontaneous spells whose effects are invoked on the fly. Awesome stuff.


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## painandgreed (Feb 7, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Would anyone like to explain any of these?




Nature & Demeanour (oWoD)

Every character had a Nature and a Demeanour. Nature was how you really were and Demeanour was how you appeared to others (or was it the other way around?). Choices were listed in the books and could both be the same thing. They were part of the Willpower system for the game. Most mind control abilities worked against the targets Willpower, some magic worked via the users willpower. You could use willpower to get an automatic success if you stated you wanted to do so before the role (you can get multiple success in the WoD systems and it was sometimes required in oWoD). Some powers also used up Willpower to use. Thus, the more you used your willpower, the easier you were to mind control to other creatures. When you fullfilled the conditions of your nature or Demeanour during role play, you got back a willpower point (up to your max).

Examples of Nature and Demeanour (not actual examples from book)

Martyr - get back a willpower point anytime the character puts herself at a disadvantage to benefit somebody else

Bon Vivant - get back a willpower point anytime the character is enjoying themselves, such as at a party

Builder - get back a willpower point anytime the character creates something that will outlast his current efforts

Leader - get back a willpower point anytime the character gives orders and others follow them

Sadistic - ...anytime the character causes another person pain

caregiver - ...anytime the character aids another person without benefit to himself

Neat idea, but in actual play, I've seen very few Storytellers or players remember to get back willpower even if they fullfilled the requirements except for the occational player who was always doing so


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## Aus_Snow (Feb 7, 2007)

Yep. Of course, oWoD is by far not the only place that kind of thing has cropped up.

Dark Metropolis, for example, gave cyberpunk in-modes and ex-modes (i.e., natures and demeanours). . . plus some other quite interesting stuff, actually.

But anyway, no opportunities for scoring some Willpower there, just flavour.


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## painandgreed (Feb 8, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Would anyone like to explain any of these?




Lifepath (CP2020 and others)

Basically, a system as part of character creation that allowed you to come up with your character's history up to that point. A flowchart with lots of rolling to come up with lots of complex histories. What was your parents social standing? Were you an only child? Are they still living? If not, how were they killed? How good is your education? How have you been living up till then? Do you have nay enemies? if so, why are they your enemies? Who is your best friend? Are they still alive? If not, what horrible life scarring tradgedy happened that caused their death? Do you have nay friends? Why do they like you? Do you have any lovers? Etc. Etc. Usually including character appearance. 

really neat, especially if you don't have a clear idea of what you want for your character. With just a few minutes of rolling you can have a very detailed background.

The first time I saw this, it was in an anime RPG (Mekton?). I loved it so much I bought a copy just so I could use it for my D&D characters.


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## Raloc (Feb 8, 2007)

I didn't read the thread to see if anyone has posted it yet, but Fate Points from Spirit of the Century would be cool.  I don't know if the Harping Monkey podcast guys were using them correctly, but IMO linking the characters to certain nemeses and giving them points to directly narrate part of the game is very cool.

Okay, just read through and it looks like SotC was mentioned but not this particular part (or at least, how the HM guys used it ).  Essentially in some situations where the character's nemesis is encountered, the player gets a fate point.  They can use these to essentially influence part of the narrative scene directly (within reason, pretty much depedent on GM judgement the way they're using it):  The nemesis' henchmen run because of the fearsome sight of <character> and his allies charging down on <nemesis> in righteous fury.  I really see it being good for climactic times in battles when the players want to do something beyond the scope of their characters' abilities.


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## I'm A Banana (Feb 8, 2007)

#1: This is a wonderful thread.

#2: I am apparently a shameless shill. 

* The Wealth Bonus from d20 Modern: you don't need to track your individual assets, instead you get a bonus that increases with level. Saves on a lot of bookkeeping.

* Character Concepts from FFZ: When making a character, your choice of your first-level feat ties into your character's archetype somehow. For instance, characters who act independent and disloyal gain a feat that improves their saves against being magically compelled.

* The Gates of Planescape: Basically, you stepped through a doorway and were teleported to basically where you need to be. You didn't need to take a long, wearying journey to jump into adventure into some far away land -- it removed the dull "walk for days, random encounter, walk for some more days, now we can get back to the fun part" element from a lot of the game.

* The Ensemble system from FFZ. Characters stay at a base, to which you can return and switch characters. So this week, you play the crafty sneak-thief who goes on the dungeon raid, and next week you play the noble dragoon who quests for his god and country. 

* The "Pool" system from Iron Heroes. As you take actions that make sense for the class you've chosen, you gain points, and these points are spent to power your abilities. It's much cooler than an X/day kind of mechanic, because it gives you a way other than "8 hours of rest" to power up your character with.

* The Loot system from FFZ: The monsters you kill give you "loot," items that you can exchange for various awards. These awards are relevant to the monsters you killed, making your experiences shape your character. If you fight a lot of undead, your awards will include things that are good at fighting, controlling, influencing, and dealing with undead, for instance. If you are dealing with a lot of humanoids, your awards will be things that help against humanoids. It really makes the treasure you get mesh up with the type of campaign the GM is running.

* Action Points/Drama Points/Karma/Etc. from Various Games: Everyone loves to add to their die rolls. Giving out points for cool RPing that give you direct bonuses are nice.

* The Speed system from FFZ: Initiative management becomes key. Basically, each roll of initiative gives you points that you can spend on your actions (each action takes a certain number of points). Those with higher points get to act sooner and more often, and if you blow all of your points, you may find yourself vulnerable later.


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## mmadsen (Feb 8, 2007)

Has anyone put together a *lifepath* system for _D&D_?  (I assume they have...)


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## Mark Causey (Feb 8, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Has anyone put together a *lifepath* system for _D&D_?  (I assume they have...)




Burning Wheel has this for character creation as well. It's a choice of jobs/roles in your life, and it helps determine your age and stuff like that.


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## Mark Causey (Feb 8, 2007)

Conspiracy of Shadows has a neat mechanic called a Doom Counter. Basically, any player can up their counter by 1 to not have to roll to have something come into play. They have to describe how it adds to their oncoming Doom, however. At a predetermined number (default is 6 I think), that character is now up for death by their Doom. That is, if you want your character to live no matter what, you have to take what the game is giving you. But if you want to change things, you can do so up to a point. After that point, your luck has run out!


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## LostSoul (Feb 8, 2007)

Any game where the outcome of a roll is dependent on the explicitly stated intent of the player.  (Not the number that you roll, but what happens in the game.)


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## Land Outcast (Feb 8, 2007)

Herse said:
			
		

> Noun/Verb magic system
> 
> Briefly, in Ars Magica the magic system is comprised of 15 Arts divided into 5 Techniques and 10 Forms. The Techniques are what one does (verb) and the Forms are the objects one does it to or with (noun). By combining one Technique with one Form you generate spell effects. Characters have skill levels in these Arts. The Arts are named in Latin.
> 
> ...



anyone interested in this should check it out at http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=AG0204 where Ars magics 4th ed is available for free.


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## The Grackle (Feb 9, 2007)

I was thinking about this other day while reading this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=187237

In Earthdawn any time you needed to roll to affect a large group, you'd roll against the one person with the highest opposed skill, +1 for every extra person.  That way you could sneak past a group of seventeen gaurds w/o having to roll seventeen times.


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## Larcen (Feb 9, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> I tried something in my campaign that was a HUGE HIT.
> 
> Huge.
> 
> Anyway, it's an action point mechanic that is totally unambiguous in what it does...




Er, of course a system that gives players gobs of free bonuses would be a huge hit.   I can't imagine the players saying "Nah, we dont want all those free bonuses..."    

Contributions to thread:  

FATE's pyramid scheme for skill building.  The rules for this are free and easy to find, so I'll leave it at that...

Fantasy Wargaming's (anyone remember this?) Bogey table during character creation.   Gives your character interesting quirks, such as "homophobic".  Seriously.

Fantasy Wargaming's (yep, again.  why did this awfully laid out game have such good ideas?) spell system.  Allowed you to build any spell you wanted, from scratch, and have a definate spell difficulty level when you were done.   And the range of affects was huge!  No spell lists needed, though a sample one was provided.  Don't think that sort of detailed Build-your-own-spells system ever been done before, or since.

Fantasy Wargaming's (yeah, again) Clerical Appeal system.  Clerics did not cast spells, they requested Miracles through prayers.  The chance of success depended on how many times you have asked for help recently, your current Piety rating, and the power of the request.  This was cool because it made cleric's generally weaker than the wizards most of times... but with the potential to be REALLY kickass when the moment was right.  Also made for clerical magic to be really different that wizardly magic, as it should be.


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## HellHound (Feb 9, 2007)

I've been thinkign from a design perspective of how to make the Lifepath mechanic REALLY hook players into a new game.

My goal is to write up the history for the setting, and then when rolling your lifepath, you roll to see how you were involved in specific major events in the timeline. This way, even newbies will know SOMETHING about the game world just because they rolled up that they were involved in such and such a battle, or witnessed it, or their friend died there, etc.

The other meta-rule I LOVE that hasn't been mentioned so far was Underground's "Changing the World" mechanics.

Of the ones mentioned, the oWoD Nature & Demeanor were great.


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## Aus_Snow (Feb 9, 2007)

HellHound said:
			
		

> My goal is to write up the history for the setting, and then when rolling your lifepath, you roll to see how you were involved in specific major events in the timeline. This way, even newbies will know SOMETHING about the game world just because they rolled up that they were involved in such and such a battle, or witnessed it, or their friend died there, etc.



Yep, that's an excellent way of going about it.


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## Master of the Game (Feb 9, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Has anyone put together a *lifepath* system for _D&D_?  (I assume they have...)



Funnily enough I'm working on this in another window...


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## Land Outcast (Feb 9, 2007)

> Funnily enough I'm working on this in another window...



Care to share? here (when finished), or at a thread at House Rules (no matter the stage it is in, you can finish it there... maybe even get suggestions)


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## Land Outcast (Feb 9, 2007)

Hellhound said:
			
		

> The other meta-rule I LOVE that hasn't been mentioned so far was Underground's "Changing the World" mechanics.



Oh... someboy explain?


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## Frostmarrow (Feb 9, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> I wasn't aware of that one.  Vampire recommends that you play out clairvoyant dreams with expendable characters?  I may have to give that a go...
> How did a "Drop your weapon..." card save you from being eaten by a byakhee?




Sorry about that, but the Drop your weapon-card gives you a take 20 intimidate check opportunity. I yelled at it and it hesitated for a moment allowing me to escape into a crown. The Byakhee was content with eating some random guy instead...


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## mmadsen (Feb 9, 2007)

HellHound said:
			
		

> My goal is to write up the history for the setting, and then when rolling your lifepath, you roll to see how you were involved in specific major events in the timeline. This way, even newbies will know SOMETHING about the game world just because they rolled up that they were involved in such and such a battle, or witnessed it, or their friend died there, etc..



_Roll, roll, roll._  "Apparently my father died in the Clone Wars..."


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## Pbartender (Feb 9, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> _Roll, roll, roll._  "Apparently my father died in the Clone Wars..."




_Roll, roll, roll._ "Nice! I inherited a magic ring from my uncle!"


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## mmadsen (Feb 9, 2007)

Pbartender said:
			
		

> _Roll, roll, roll._ "Nice! I inherited a magic ring from my uncle!"



Hehe.  Yeah, this sub-thread could quickly spiral out of control.  Suffice to say, I love the idea of a life path with game-world history built into it.

(Addendum: I spawned a new thread for amusing life paths.)


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## HellHound (Feb 9, 2007)

I got the idea from the new version of Pendragon, where characters roll to see what their father did in each year to determine when he died, and how much honour he had at the time.

The lifepath gives you a nice little history lesson about the conflicts in the region in the past 40 years, and helps the character feel attached to his family and fiefdom. 

I just figured moving that over to the character proper instead of dear old dad would work well. Especially for a cyberpunk / futureshock RPG where the players start out knowing tragically little about the setting.


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## Pbartender (Feb 9, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Hehe.  Yeah, this sub-thread could quickly spiral out of control.  Suffice to say, I love the idea of a life path with game-world history built into it.




Incidentally, T20 Traveller has a prior history system designed for D20 that would be pretty easy to adapt to other games and settings.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Feb 9, 2007)

Pbartender said:
			
		

> Incidentally, T20 Traveller has a prior history system designed for D20 that would be pretty easy to adapt to other games and settings.




_roll, roll, roll:_  "I'm dead!?  WTF?"


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## mmadsen (Feb 9, 2007)

HellHound said:
			
		

> I got the idea from the new version of Pendragon, where characters roll to see what their father did in each year to determine when he died, and how much honour he had at the time.
> 
> The lifepath gives you a nice little history lesson about the conflicts in the region in the past 40 years, and helps the character feel attached to his family and fiefdom.



Yes, that's an excellent element of _Pendragon_.  It's a bit more work to port over than many of these meta-mechanics, but I think it would be worth it.

Another _Pendragon_ meta-mechanic worth borrowing is rolling on a random table -- which table depends on  your character's background -- for some lucky boon: an heirloom sword, a fabulous charger, a magic potion, etc.  (Again, _"Nice! I inherited a magic ring from my uncle!"_)


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## HellHound (Feb 9, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Yes, that's an excellent element of _Pendragon_.  It's a bit more work to port over than many of these meta-mechanics, but I think it would be worth it.
> 
> Another _Pendragon_ meta-mechanic worth borrowing is rolling on a random table -- which table depends on  your character's background -- for some lucky boon: an heirloom sword, a fabulous charger, a magic potion, etc.  (Again, _"Nice! I inherited a magic ring from my uncle!"_)




Background table rolls. They were used extensively in MERP and Rolemaster. Weaker races got more rolls on the background tables.


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## Seeten (Feb 9, 2007)

We didnt roll for our background options, we picked them, much like feats. We also used the "High ability score special abilities" from RM Companion 3.

Stuff like a +30 presence score allowing you to indimidate better, +30 strength giving you bonuses with weapon types, etc.


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## Wik (Feb 14, 2007)

I just remembered a few metamechanics I love.  Both come from FASA.

In Shadowrun, characters get a number of skill points to spend on knowledge skills.  These represent areas of knowledge that may not come in handy very often during the game, but help define the character... there are no specific skills, so that the player has to dream up whatever knowledge skills make sense for his character (skills like basketball statistics, drug culture, and smuggling rings).

In Earthdawn, there's a similar mechanic regarding artistic skills.  Since all mortals in Barsaive practice a craft (it shows that they are not touched by the horrors), all PCs pick up a rank in some sort of craft skill (again, defined by the player) that fits the character.  I always went with storytelling.

I think Earthdawn also had a knowledge system somewhat similar to shadowrun, but I'm not sure.

Both systems are great, and I think they'd be really easy to port over to D&D.  In fact, I'm considering it as we speak.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Feb 14, 2007)

In _Nobilis_, the player characters are in charge of a *Chancel*, which is essentially like their own little demesne.  They can spend Chancel Points to give their area associated benefits, such as borderguards, as well as taking away points with disadvantages like being actively hated by the populace -- but it's a zero sum game.  A significant part of the character creation process often involves putting together the Chancel, which can literally be almost anything -- my last group had a Chancel created from separating the London Underground from reality.

Fundamentally it's like letting the players create the campaign setting, and it tends to yield very good results, in my experience.


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## ZeroGlobal2003 (Feb 16, 2007)

This is an absolutely awesome thread.


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## Someone (Feb 17, 2007)

Ars Magica also has the concept of Covenant, a group of mages and mundanes working together. In a way, the covenant is the campaing's (or _saga_) main character, and is created much like a character would. While player characters may come and go, the Covenant stays and evolves, providing a framework for wildly diferent people to work together


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## jeffh (Feb 17, 2007)

LostSoul said:
			
		

> Hmm, that's not how we're playing it.  We're using beliefs as goals that drive play.



I think you're doing it correctly.

One thing mmadsen hit on the head, though, is that Instincts (a seperate though related aspect of Burning Wheel) are perfect for D&D. How many times have you gotten hosed becasue someone forgot to say "I check for traps first"?


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## Master of the Game (Feb 23, 2007)

Land Outcast said:
			
		

> Care to share? here (when finished), or at a thread at House Rules (no matter the stage it is in, you can finish it there... maybe even get suggestions)



Sure, sorry it took me so long to remember this.

The system isn't complete, and it's much to long and jumbled to post as it is, but I posted an example here.  That'll give you an idea where I'm taking it (most of which is stolen from T20), and I can post a full version of it once it gets cleaned up a bit.


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## Plane Sailing (Feb 23, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Has anyone put together a *lifepath* system for _D&D_?  (I assume they have...)




Well, I used to use one in the late '70s that was published in Dungeoneer... One of my PCs was the sole surivivor of a decimated army... three times!


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## Plane Sailing (Feb 23, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> For instance, Ars Magica introduced the notion of troupe play, where each player has multiple characters of different power levels and plays one of them each session.




Funny, because for years and years this was the only way that we'd play D&D. We never had ongoing campaigns, we each had a 'stable' of characters, and each week one person would DM and say 'its a 6th level adventure' and we'd thumb through and bring out our appropriate level characters!


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## eyebeams (Feb 23, 2007)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> Funny, because for years and years this was the only way that we'd play D&D. We never had ongoing campaigns, we each had a 'stable' of characters, and each week one person would DM and say 'its a 6th level adventure' and we'd thumb through and bring out our appropriate level characters!




That's not really how Ars' troupe play works, though. In ArsM, you have three character types: Magi, Companions and Grogs. Everybody has a Companion and Magus and there are a pool of grogs, and they all live in the same Covenant (wizards' settlement).

An adventure will be 1-2 magi, some companions and a few grogs to round things out. Grogs are disposable fighter types fleshed out on the fly. The idea is that the magi are "main characters" with more power and centrality, but they can't do everything alone.

Furthermore, in Ars, magi who aren't on the adventure are still acting in the background because of the rules for research.

Unfortunately, later editions have downplayed the troupe concept a bit.


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## Land Outcast (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks for that, Master


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## DarkKestral (May 7, 2008)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> * The Wealth Bonus from d20 Modern: you don't need to track your individual assets, instead you get a bonus that increases with level. Saves on a lot of bookkeeping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Wolf1066 (Jul 7, 2010)

Excuse the Thread Necromancy but this is a cool thread.

Some of my favourite ideas have already been mentioned (such as Nature/Demeanor (or in-mode/out-mode if you prefer)).

Advantages and Disadvantages spice things up and make for more "interesting" characters - easily modified for the world/time you're in (some are timeless like "Tough" or "Lame", others are genre/era-specific like "Vehicle Zen"/"Flying Ace"etc.)

Saw weapon cards for the first time in the Serenity RPG and adopted them for my Cyberpunk game - the checkboxes to tick off expended ammo seemed like a fantastic way to ensure players kept track of how many times they'd fired and when they'd need to reload (or run like Hell because they were out of ammo...)

Quite liked the Insanity options in Palladium (despite my Wolfen becoming a Transvestite because of them...) and the Stress/Fatigue system from Ianus Games.


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## TarionzCousin (Jul 7, 2010)

Wolf1066 said:


> (despite my Wolfen becoming a Transvestite because of them...)



Feature, not a bug.

Personally, I like the fact that when I roll a natural 20 on a Save in Star Wars Saga Edition, I get a Force Power recharged (or something like that--it's been too long). I think a natural 20 should always be rewarded.


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## Wolf1066 (Jul 7, 2010)

TarionzCousin said:


> Feature, not a bug.



True, but I did use up most my loot from the adventure getting my breastplate not merely repaired but re*shaped* as well...


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## Pbartender (Jul 7, 2010)

I've recently been thinking that _Spirit of the Century's_ Aspects would be easy and fun to merge with D&D 4E's action point rules.


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## Votan (Jul 7, 2010)

mmadsen said:


> _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ took the idea of *drama points* and added a twist: weaker, "supporting cast" characters get more drama points than powerful characters like the Slayer.




This basic idea, which I wish I had encountered earlier, is really interesting.  It creates a nifty way to try and balance the high/low power dichotomy that is often seen in literature.  After all, Frodo and Batman both seem to drive the plot more than Superman and Gandalf.  I think that this could be a really cool way to make these types of parties work.


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## Krensky (Jul 7, 2010)

Fantasy Craft's cheating death rules. Basically, if a PC (or very, very few NPCs) die, they can try and cheat death by coming up with a plausible, entertaining story about how it happens. The key here is plausible, since the GM has to allow it, and entertaining. An entertaining story is crucial, because after it's done, the other players get to score it based on how cool an idea it is. Then you roll, using the score as a modifier. The better the final result, the smaller a price (nightmares, permanent injuries, hauntings, etc) you pay to have cheated the man on the pale horse.


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## Fanaelialae (Oct 30, 2011)

A lot of inspiring mechanics have been mentioned.  Great idea for a thread!

I love Enlightened Grognard's idea of representing temporary bonuses and penalties with pools of tokens. (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/299297-introducing-enlightened-grognard.html)

I also like EG's approach of granting most class abilities via feats grouped by type.  Classes receive greater or lesser access to these groups, akin to 2e's clerical domains.  It offers a good compromise between numerous character options, class niche protection, and ability reuse.

From an old-school perspective, there's a lot that I feel The Arcanum does right.  I really wish I'd known about this supplement as a kid.  For example, despite being a point buy system, you only have a 10% chance to purchase your racial maximum; otherwise you're stuck at one point lower.  An interesting solution to the complaint of "all fighters have 18 strength" common to point buy systems.

WFRPG's stance and party cooperation meters are also really interesting mechanics.  The first rewards characters differently depending on whether they take an aggressive or defensive stance in combat.  The second rewards a party for cooperating.


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## mmadsen (Oct 31, 2011)

Fanaelialae said:


> WFRPG's stance and party cooperation meters are also really interesting mechanics.  The first rewards characters differently depending on whether they take an aggressive or defensive stance in combat.  The second rewards a party for cooperating.



It sounds like _The One Ring_, the latest _Lord of the Rings_ RPG, borrowed some ideas from _Warhammer 3_.  In combat, characters choose a _stance_: high-risk, high-reward _forward_ stance, _open_ stance, _defensive_ stance, through _rearward_ stance.  The party also has a shared pool of _fellowship points_ that any player can use with a majority vote.

Also, _The One Ring_ borrowed and built on _Pendragon_'s notion of a Winter Phase between adventures.

One simple idea from _The One Ring_ that other games could use almost immediately is its philosophy on encumbrance.  It's not that some classes can or cannot wear heavy armor, or that everyone has a specific amount they're allowed to carry.  Instead, _hit points_ have been redubbed _endurance_, and when your _endurance_ drops below a certain threshold, based on your encumbrance, you become _weary_, with various disadvantages.


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