# Whirtlestaff's Wizards' Academy Revisited, OOC01



## Leif

This is the Out-Of-Character Thread for the original Whirtlestaffs Wizards Academy game, which is now being used for Whirtlestaff's Wizards' Academy, Revisited.  The original recruiting thread was called simply "The Wizards Academy."

"Welcome Wizards!!"  reads the banner above the door.


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## FreeXenon

Yea!


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## FreeXenon

I asked for that beginning didn't I?


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## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> I asked for that beginning didn't I?



Well, let's just say that you provided some much-needed inspiration to a very weary DM who basically had no idea how to start with some action. Thanks.  And thanks for offering up the sacrifice of your dwarf on the altar of Elvish PMS!!


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## FreeXenon

*gulp* Anything for the team, right? *gulp*


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## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> *gulp* Anything for the team, right? *gulp*



Sure...yeah...riiiiiiight     Actually, we'd better let Scotley have the last word on that subject.


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## FreeXenon

*Spells and the our Spell Books*

Are we free to put each other's spells in our books or....


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## Leif

*Spell Sharing*



			
				FreeXenon said:
			
		

> Are we free to put each other's spells in our books or....



No.  Do that in character, but in the OOC thread.  That way, if someone doesn't want to share a certain spell for whatever reason, he/she doesn't have to.  And if it's done in the OOC thread, then it won't get in the way of the story.

So, the politically correct, accepted way to proceed is for you to select one of your companions, and say something like, "Hey, buddy, I've got this really cool spell that you might like.  Want to do some spell trading?"

And we'll assume that this is all done outside the regular campaign timeline also, so you can have it done before losing access to Academy supplies.  (Unless, you just WANT to pay for it....)


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## FreeXenon

Gotcha...


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## FreeXenon

*Spell Trading...*

I am thinking that the three people that could pry spells from his book would be (and this would be under his full supervision). He's a little bit paranoid about his pimp'n spell book.

*Tylara*, because *A)* she's a girl and *B)* she is also a fellow conjurer

*Alexandra* because *A)* she's a girl and somewhat of an outcast. I am pretty sure I have really offended her at least once, especially about that thing that she is really sensitive about.

*Gregory* because *A)* he's a bit of an outcast and has had to struggle a little like him. For Durgeon that is all tempered by Gregroy's 'natural flair'.

This should be a good start since not everyone has full histories yet.


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## Scotley

For all her occasional icy demeanor and apparently ruthless bouts of PMS, Tylara is an eager knowledge seeker and would be of the you show me yours and I'll show you mine school of thought--at least as far as spells are concerned. All you who thought something more can just pick your dirty minds up out the gutter and clean them off right now. 

She'd be especially eager to see Durgeon's as a fellow conjurer and verbal sparing partner.


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## Leif

Tylara's and Durgeon's repartee is going to make me very slow to post.  I can't stop laughing long enough to decide what happens next!


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## Maidhc O Casain

Pandak is (or will be when I get him finished up - should be sometime this weekend) very affable for a Dwarf, and will be willing to share spells with whomever/whenever.

Sorry about the late start - I didn't get wind of the game until a few days ago, and work's kickin' my butt as the school wraps up for Christmas Break.


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## Leif

Mowgli said:
			
		

> Pandak is (or will be when I get him finished up - should be sometime this weekend) very affable for a Dwarf, and will be willing to share spells with whomever/whenever.
> Sorry about the late start - I didn't get wind of the game until a few days ago, and work's kickin' my butt as the school wraps up for Christmas Break.



Don't sweat it!  You're the third player out of eight to make an appearance, so you're well ahead of the curve.  Anyway, we can't all be as lucky as ME to be on vacation right now!  Today was my first day off and I don't go back until the 31st.    The vacation is why I was able to get the game rolling today.  I didn't really expect to do that today, and I think I almost gave FreeXenon a cardiac!  (I tried, anyway...   )


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## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Tylara's and Durgeon's repartee is going to make me very slow to post.  I can't stop laughing long enough to decide what happens next!




I can see I'm going to have great fun playing Tylara. At least until the other players get tired of her and drag her out of the dorm to toss her in an ice cold campus fountain in winter.   

I do have to attend to some other games now however. My own players are getting restless.


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## Voda Vosa

I'm confused... lol

No one wants to trade spells with the gnome.


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## FreeXenon

Nothing personal, but you're a _Gnome_.   
I think that you are perhaps too much gnome for Durgeon to stomach.   
I know, I know. Durgeon has issues.


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## Leif

Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> I'm confused... lol
> 
> No one wants to trade spells with the gnome.



Don't worry, SOMEONE will play nice with the gnome, OR ELSE!!!   

Get it, felas?

Good, thought so.


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## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> I can see I'm going to have great fun playing Tylara. At least until the other players get tired of her and drag her out of the dorm to toss her in an ice cold campus fountain in winter.
> I do have to attend to some other games now however. My own players are getting restless.



AHEM!  Well, as one of the aforementioned "restless players," you have my blessing.


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## FreeXenon

I am thinking that pretty much through a mesh network of trading that everyone will eventually have everyone elses spells. If there is just one popular person in the group that everyone trades with then that person will have collected all of the spells that everyone has, and since that person trades with everyone, then everyone will have everyone elses spells. 

We can save time by just skipping the intermediate steps since we already know the basic outcome - everyone will have access to everyones spells.

Whose on first?


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## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> I am thinking that pretty much through a mesh network of trading that everyone will eventually have everyone elses spells. If there is just one popular person in the group that everyone trades with then that person will have collected all of the spells that everyone has, and since that person trades with everyone, then everyone will have everyone elses spells.
> 
> We can save time by just skipping the intermediate steps since we already know the basic outcome - everyone will have access to everyones spells.



Well, we may have one more coming who wasn't on the original list.  I inadvertently snubbed him in the recruiting, so I'm trying to make nice now.  Had trouble getting a message to him, but think I finally got an IM to him on Yahoo.  Anyway, let's wait until the party is finally settled for sure.  And whoever has the BEST spells may decide that he doesn't want ANY of you slackers to have his spells!    That being said, I just KNOW that somebody wants to trade with the gnome, riiiiiight??  You do remember your DM's soft spot for gnomes, don't you? hehehehe


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## FreeXenon

Fair enough!


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## Scotley

I already noted that Tylara's thirst for knowledge would motivate her to trade with anyone who is willing to share. She even speaks Gnomish! She hasn't snubbed the little guy yet has she?

Since we aren't trading yet...I had one spell that I really intended to put on Tylara's list--Ice Knife from Spell Compendium. I'm thinking she has a thing for frost related spells and is a Conjuration. Any chance I can make that swap even though I've already posted my character?


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## FreeXenon

If you want I could have purchased scroll of it and just happen to have added it to my spell book.


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## Leif

*Tylara*

Yeah you can make the switch, or you can let your boyfriend, Durgeon, get it for you.  

And you can trade with those who are playing so far.  I just said that you couldn't go through the Rogue's Gallery and pick out whatever you wanted from the other character's spell lists without at least asking that character first.  At least, that's how I understood Durgeon's request.


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## FreeXenon

LOL!   
That spell would stand out in my spell book, since I avoid all of those touch and ranged touch spells. I have no Dex or BAB to speak of. AoE is what I prefer.


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## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> LOL!
> That spell would stand out in my spell book, since I avoid all of those touch and ranged touch spells. I have no Dex or BAB to speak of. AoE is what I prefer.



You will find, sir, that being so quick on the post may make you miss things from me, sooner or later.  I have an extremely annoying habit of posting, and THEN thinking, and deciding that I should have said more, or less, or something different, and then going back and editing the post.  Just be careful, that's all.


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## FreeXenon

Leif said:
			
		

> I have an extremely annoying habit of posting, and THEN thinking, and deciding that I should have said more, or less, or something different, and then going back and editing the post.



 I do the same thing.


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## Scotley

Not me, I always get it right the first time. Well okay, I usually get it right the first time. Well, sometimes I need to go back and change. No maybe occationally is a better word. I really...Um what were we talking about?  

Screw it, me too!

I'll make the change to Ice Knife, I wouldn't want Durgeon to have to go against his principles. Of course the good thing about Ice knife is if you miss you still get an area burst.


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## FreeXenon

Whew! That works.

*Voda Vosa:* Your character sheet has your wizard level at 2 and your HP for 1rst level, and your skill points for 2nd level.


... or something like that.


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## Leif

*Voda Vosa*



			
				FreeXenon said:
			
		

> *Voda Vosa:* Your character sheet has your wizard level at 2 and your HP for 1rst level, and your skill points for 2nd level.
> ... or something like that.



Also, there's an error on your spell list.  You have ONE spell called "Protection From Alignment."  There is no such spell.  Rather, there are FOUR SEPARATE spells:  Protection from Good/Evil/Law/Chaos.  So if you only want to devote one of your limited spellbook pages to the spell,then you have to choose which version you want.  Or, you can take all four spells, if you have enough spell choices available.  You should be able to find someone to trade with you now.  I SPOKE to Grumblebelly about his attitude!    hehehe


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## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Not me, I always get it right the first time. Well okay, I usually get it right the first time. Well, sometimes I need to go back and change. No maybe occationally is a better word. I really...Um what were we talking about?
> Screw it, me too!
> I'll make the change to Ice Knife, I wouldn't want Durgeon to have to go against his principles. Of course the good thing about Ice knife is if you miss you still get an area burst.



Yeah, and the area burst may actually do you some good, provided you don't horribly overshoot your intended target (or horribly undershoot and burst on your friends).


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## FreeXenon

Attitude? What attitude? You Low down, dirty, PC kill'n thug! Grrr.... I show you attitude.  
Did I say that out loud?


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## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> Attitude? What attitude? You Low down, dirty, PC kill'n thug! Grrr.... I show you attitude.
> Did I say that out loud?



Awww, what a sweet thing to say!  "PC killin'," gosh, and I didn't get you anything.   

Oh, and incidentally, I meant that Durgeon heard Tylara's voice AFTER he left the room and the door closed behind him.  (Wouldn't make much sense for her to call him back before he leaves, now, would it?   )


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## FreeXenon

I suppose so. 
Changing post in a little bit.


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## Leif

We are officially down to one dwarf now.  Pandak/Mowgli has withdrawn.

In other news, I have reviewed the monster manual stats for the Gray Elf (Tylara), and, yes, they really are as awesome as Tylara said that she was!    I will allow Scotley to continue with Tylara in her present form, but in my judgment, a significant xp penalty is called for, until the other pcs are of equal power.  Comments?  Observations?  

Ok, maybe I was wrong about this.


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## FreeXenon

Whoa! The only difference between the PHB Elf and thre Grey Elf is the addition of the -2 Str/+2 Int, especially give the 3E design considerations of Str having more weight. Since that more than balances a penalty should not be imposed.


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## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> Whoa! The only difference between the PHB Elf and thre Grey Elf is the addition of the -2 Str/+2 Int, especially give the 3E design considerations of Str having more weight. Since that more than balances a penalty should not be imposed.



No, there are other differences:  Gray elves of any class automatically get numerous proficiencies with martial weapons:  longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow.  For a wizard, these proficiencies alone are worth FIVE feats!  Plus, they get +2 racial bonuses on Listen, Search, and Spot, plus automatic checks to find secret/concealed doors, plus sleep/charm immunity and +2 racial bonus against any enchanment spells/effects.


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## FreeXenon

*Standard PHB Elf*

That is normal for every Elf straight from the PHB.   
Have you taken a look at dwarves?   
Not that I am trying to screw myself, here, but take a gander...


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## FreeXenon

*Weapon Proficiencies*

The weapon proficiencies don't mean quite so much because they do not have the skill to use them effectively, unless they take a martial class (and then they already get the proficiencies so they kind of go wasted).

I am pretty sure no one in their right mind is going to fear a wizard with a longsword, unless of course he is an Eldritch Knight. That would be a good reason to pause for quite a bit, other than that...   


'_Ooooh, scary a wizard with a sharp pointy thing._'


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## Leif

ok, ok, ok, I'm all better now.


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## FreeXenon

Don't let the sharp point thing frighten you.


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## Scotley

I think you are placing too much value on the elf abilities. Of course I am biased.   

How much better a warrior do they really make a character? You talk of 5 feats worth of weapons, but I'm only using two. How many character will actually use both a longbow and a shortbow in composite and regular versions? Or two different swords for that matter. The advantage of a long sword over a dagger is only the difference between a d4 and a d8 it is only slightly better than the quarterstaff's d6. The rapier only does a d6, though it is more likely to get a crit. I would counter that the loss of two points of str., which means I'm less likely to hit and will do one less point of damage balances that out. I will still be limited to the wizard's base attack bonus. That limited base attack bonus also waters down any advantage in crit ranges for the elf weapons. With the lack of armor and crappy hit points I rolled, I really think Tylara's sword will be more for show than use. 

Compared to a human the elf gets one less feat. I submit that the handful of martial weapons is at best marginally better than one feat in the end. A human could use that one feat to take simple weapons and get javelins, crossbows, spears, and the morning star as well as others. I submit that the weapons I took don't represent a significant advantage over that select. 

Let's talk skill bonuses. A third level human gets 6 skill points extra. The elf gets +2 on three skills or 6 points extra. And without the flexibility to put them on skills of my choice. The other elf abilities are largely balanced out over time as the human continues to get extra skill points at every level and has more flexible multi-class options. 

If I multi-class into pretty much any other core class, but sorcerer at any time during Tylara's career she will get extra weapon proficiencies largely making the additional weapons moot.

Anyway, is the elf good? Yes. Are the elf's abilities somewhat front loaded compared to a human? Yes, but by third level, where we started, the human has largely caught up. Is the Elf way better than a human or dwarf? I don't think so. I choose the elf mainly to differentiate her from the other characters in the party, who all have the same class. Did you really want to DM for 8 bearded pointy hat wearing male humans? By the time I got around to suggesting her we already had people pimping their humans, dwarf and Gnome. Given the short list of races, *which you gave us*, I don't think I have taken any unfair advantage. The only other race on the list was the half-elf, which by the way is widely regarded as the weakest of the Player's handbook Races. Dwarf is generally regarded as the strongest rather than the Elf. 

Lest we forget *you* actually suggested that I make Tylara a Grey Elf as opposed to a regular elf. But pretty much everything that seems to be in contention would be true of the regular as well as gray elf.  

Anyway, you asked for comments and observations, so there are mine. 

Scott


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## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Lest we forget *you* actually suggested that I make Tylara a Grey Elf as opposed to a regular elf. But pretty much everything that seems to be in contention would be true of the regular as well as gray elf.
> Anyway, you asked for comments and observations, so there are mine.
> Scott



  Are you quitting too??  Is everyone else ready to quit complaining and play some dnd??


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## FreeXenon

Alright people, lets all calm down a little bit. Please!   
We seem to be getting a little defensive. 

Breathe. Breathe.


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## Zurai

I'm sorry to say, but I'm going to withdraw from this game. 

Reason for withdrawing: I just don't like the choices the DM is making in dealing with the characters OOC. I won't enumerate them here because I don't want to start an argument; just suffice to say that I find myself shaking my head in real life way too much to be able to stay in character. Sorry again.


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## FreeXenon

Sorry to see you go, Zurai!


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## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> WTF EVER, dude!  Remind me to never ask for your comments again.     The way I remember it, I had nothing to do with ANYONE'S choice of race.  But, blame me if you must, that seems to be the favorite activity of the day.  Are you quitting too??  Is everyone else ready to quit complaining and play some dnd??




Fair enough, but you did ask, so I gave them. It was not my intention to place any blame, but to make it clear that throughout the character creation process I have adhered to the guidelines you set. Anyway, I am happy with my character and eager to continue the game.


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## Leif

Wanna just all throw in the towel?  I'm sure thinking about it seriously.


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## FreeXenon

* blink, blink *


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## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> Alright people, lets all calm down a little bit. Please!
> We seem to be getting a little defensive.
> 
> Breathe. Breathe.



A little???


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## Scotley

Smile its all part of the fun. 

Today was not a good day to ask for my input. All the catalytic converters were stolen off the company vans last night and I've spent the day arguing against various points in a monitor's report. My stress level has reached new highs. 

Anyway, I hope my comments did not offend. I was really just trying to have a civil discussion of the issues raised. I don't want to do anything to jeopardise the game. As you may have noticed, I've been having great fun with Tylara already.


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## Ryfte

*Later arrival...*

I'll be posting shortly... once I get approval from Leif and square away my inventory and final spell selections.

My .02, belatedly but there none-the-less, elves, and grey elves in particular are just set up to be excellent choices for wizard classed characters. Races aren't balanced against a single class... they're balanced across the spectrum of the base classes. We all chose our own races regardless of their strengths and weaknesses to play a character we wanted to. So who cares if the gray elf is front-loaded for a wizard? *shrug*

Imagine our class choices had all been relegated to barbarians... wouldn't the half-orc be front-loaded for that or even a dwarf? If I then chose to be a gnome should the elf be penalized for it?

Again... my .02 

~ Ryfte


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## Leif

Ryfte said:
			
		

> I'll be posting shortly... once I get approval from Leif and square away my inventory and final spell selections.
> 
> My .02, belatedly but there none-the-less, elves, and grey elves in particular are just set up to be excellent choices for wizard classed characters. Races aren't balanced against a single class... they're balanced across the spectrum of the base classes. We all chose our own races regardless of their strengths and weaknesses to play a character we wanted to. So who cares if the gray elf is front-loaded for a wizard? *shrug*
> 
> Imagine our class choices had all been relegated to barbarians... wouldn't the half-orc be front-loaded for that or even a dwarf? If I then chose to be a gnome should the elf be penalized for it?
> 
> Again... my .02
> 
> ~ Ryfte



Truthfully, I think your words are worth a lot more than the value claimed!     Where were you when Mowgli was having a crisis?


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## Ryfte

*Even funnier...*

double post...


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## Ryfte

*Even funnier...*

if you had allowed races books Leif.

The elf wizard substitution level grants:

+1 spell learned at each level including 1st
+1 additional spell slot of each level just as if you were a specialist but you can use it for any spell and don't actually have to specialize (this takes the place of the specializing ability)

Oh... and they get search added to their class list...

Now THAT really would have ruffled some feathers, eh?   

~ Ryfte


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## Scotley

Hee hee, yeah, with a few more books at my disposal I could have really created a monster. Anyway, I hope it is all water under the bridge now. Let's play a game and have a good time.


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## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Hee hee, yeah, with a few more books at my disposal I could have really created a monster. Anyway, I hope it is all water under the bridge now. Let's play a game and have a good time.



That's what I've been trying to do all along.


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## Scott DeWar

good morning all...posted a while back. woke up at 3 am central time and couldn't sleep. sorry about the delay. long cold day at work...and scottly, they took all of the catalytic converters? Wow! those have like platnium inthem if i recall correctly!!

never the less, Capizzio is inthe commen room and ready to make some spell trades...


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## Scotley

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> and scottly, they took all of the catalytic converters? Wow! those have like platinum inthem if i recall correctly!!




Four vehicles worth. I'm told they can get less than $50 dollars for the converter and pre-converter as scrap. They can get more for them as spare parts. Either way, we'll be out more than a thousand dollars (well insurance will likely cover) and the vans aren't really usable because the engine sensors are confused and they run really rough and the shift points are delayed. Of course getting them fixed right at Christmas is a major hassle too. 

People playing thieves in my games are gonna catch hell for a while!


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## Shayuri

Wow. I spend one day trying to get home for Christmas, and the game nearly tanks.

Yes. A whole day.

Flight delayed. THen canceled. Then rented car...drove until 1:30 in the morning.

...long story.

Still don't have baggage.


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## FreeXenon

Dude, that sucks. I hope that everything turns out OK.

Welcome back!


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## Leif

Yeah, I second F. Xenon's sentiment.  Hope you didn't have to share a toothbrush this morning!


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## KerlanRayne

Hey who, besides Tylara, would trade spells with me. Anyone can copy my spells, even if you don't offer anything in return. Kerlan likes to share knowledge.


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## Scott DeWar

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Hey who, besides Tylara, would trade spells with me. Anyone can copy my spells, even if you don't offer anything in return. Kerlan likes to share knowledge.





capizzio would trade with any and all within the cabal of friends...yes even grumblebelly!, but especiaaly with the gnome...call it the gee-nome chain!

just let me know if i can copy from you is all i ask...trade freely, right?


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## Shayuri

Re: Spells - Yes, Alex would have no reason not to share spells with anyone willing to share with her.

Re: Travel woes - THanks all, things are working out fine now...hopefully the baggage will be here soon. It's not lost, just delayed.   

Leif...I'd like to bring something up regarding a particular trend I've noted in your posts so far. You seem to have a tendency to include PC reactions and internal monologues in your narrations, even when the player of the PC in question hasn't posted anything remotely suggesting those responses. You did it to me once, then to another few later.

I hope it's just because you were, for some reason, just in a very big rush and didn't want to pause to wait for players to post. For the moment, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's why.

Regardless, and speaking only for myself, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my character's mouth, or tell me what she's doing or thinking. You tell me what's happening, I tell you how my character reacts. I don't mind if you inject asides where my character would reasonably have knowledge of something I don't, so long as it's a passive thing like "Alex knows that the touch of the Flaming Arseberry causes hemorrhoids," as opposed to, "Alex says, 'Don't touch it, that'll cause hemorrhoids!'"


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> capizzio would trade with any and all within the cabal of friends...yes even *Grumblebelly!*



You're a BRAVE Wizard!


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## Leif

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Leif...I'd like to bring something up regarding a particular trend I've noted in your posts so far. You seem to have a tendency to include PC reactions and internal monologues in your narrations, even when the player of the PC in question hasn't posted anything remotely suggesting those responses. You did it to me once, then to another few later.
> 
> I hope it's just because you were, for some reason, just in a very big rush and didn't want to pause to wait for players to post. For the moment, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's why.
> 
> Regardless, and speaking only for myself, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my character's mouth, or tell me what she's doing or thinking. You tell me what's happening, I tell you how my character reacts. I don't mind if you inject asides where my character would reasonably have knowledge of something I don't, so long as it's a passive thing like "Alex knows that the touch of the Flaming Arseberry causes hemorrhoids," as opposed to, "Alex says, 'Don't touch it, that'll cause hemorrhoids!'"



Ok, fair enough.  Yes, you're quite right, I have freely taken such liberties with NUMEROUS characters in this and other threads, and I now apologize for it profusely.  I'd ask each of you to forgive me, but there's no way that I could remember everyone that I've done this to.  I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing as a DM here, obviously.  Maybe Alex has a spell that will inflict hemorrhoids upon the DM?  I PROMISE that this would get my attention IMMEDIATELY. (ouch!)

Now, not telling you what Alexandra is thinking sometimes.... how exactly do I avoid that?  Ok, think I have it -- I give you the underlying memory or whatever, and let you draw the conclusion?  Ok, I can do that.  Thanks for the tip!  Please try to bear with me while I implement it, ok?


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## Scotley

Can we say that Kerlan, Capizzio, Alex and Tylara have shared spells?


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## Scott DeWar

i am willing to say that...i will look at ty's and alex's spells after my next cup of java....


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## FreeXenon

*Spell Trading*

I previously mentioned that Durgeon would have most likely traded with *Alexandra* and *Tylara* _(Because they are girls)_, and *Malfoy* because he is a little bit of an outcast and has had to struggle. 

It makes sense that he may trade with *Kerlan* because he knows when to shut up and is generally simple and friendly, as far as wizards go. And besides Ducks are cool!


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## KerlanRayne

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> It makes sense that he may trade with *Kerlane* because he knows when to shut up and is generally simple and friendly, as far as wizards go. And besides Ducks are cool!



1) It's Kerlan, not Kerlane. 2) Being a middle child of a large family, I see him more as a mediator. 3) Ducks? What's that mean? 

KerlanRayne


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## FreeXenon

1) My Bad
2) '..._took to it like a duck to water_...'


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## KerlanRayne

So what are Dalomock's, Gregory's, and Mikkanna's spell trading policies? Mikkanna doesn't seem to have finished listing her spells. She does, however, seem to be following the same path I had planned, into Geometer and then Loremaster. At least that's the plan for now. 


			
				FreeXenon said:
			
		

> 2) '..._took to it like a duck to water_...'



Of course.   

KerlanRayne


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## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> So what are Dalomock's, Gregory's, and Mikkanna's spell trading policies?



Gregory and Mikkanna will have to tell you their own policies, but I can speak for Dalomock -- he has withrawn from the game.


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## Voda Vosa

Eh? what do you mean? He went bed for some rest =P Or at least that was what I intended to say.

He is an illusionist and will trade his illusion spells, if ask correctly.


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## Scott DeWar

voda vosa, first of all, would it help if we were to make sure of our grammer and spelling to make translatiion easier for you? ( i speak mainly for my self on this as i know my grammer skills are reprehensable!)

second, if you are not sure of someone's post, mention what language you spead and what you do not understand. i would hpoe that none of us on this sight are zenophobes...after all, it is the _*world wide*_ web, not the web of the u.s.a.

and nobody get me wromg...i love my country. i wouldn't trade my 5 years in the military for nothing!


----------



## Voda Vosa

I understand mainly all... Just happen to miss little details.


----------



## FreeXenon

I've got 6 years of military, a Belarussian wife, and friends in about 5 different countries. 

I more than understand. Yea, if you want clarification just ask.


----------



## Leif

*for Voda Vosa*

I'm sorry for my misunderstanding!  I'm glad you are still playing.  If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language?  It may be that one or more of us can speak it,  and help you more.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> He is an illusionist and will trade his illusion spells, if ask correctly.



So Dalomock, I was wondering if you would like to share some spells between us. I have some that might interest you. Mirror Image for example.  

By the way I notice that your character is not up to date. You do realize that we are 3rd level now, right? 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Scott DeWar

Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> I understand mainly all... Just happen to miss little details.




i understand the need for closing the language barrier...my father was from a non english speaking country, as was his father..from yet another languaged country (indonesia and holland respectfully)

the little details in the english language will get you all the time...even for this english speaking person!!


----------



## Voda Vosa

I'm from Argentina, we speak Spanish here. 
I would love to trade.
I thought you could pick your level.

^_^


----------



## Leif

Voda Vosa, if you choose to be level 2 while everyone else is level 3, that's ok, if thats how you want things to be, and I'll try to take your lower level into account when I plan the adventures, but I'm also going to have to try to provide adventures that will challenge the level 3 characters, so you may be making life for you character more difficult that it needs to be. Still, like you said, it's your choice.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Voda vosa:
está mucho mejor (para ser/saber) nivel de habilidad magia de tres entonces dos para supervivencia.

[sblock=what i was trying to say: ]
it is better to be level 3 then 2 for survivability[/sblock]

had to dig way back in the old memory cells for that! i did get some help from alta vista's babal fish to be honest


----------



## Voda Vosa

Let me translate for you: Es mucho mejor ser nivel 3 que nivel 2, para la supervivencia.

Yeah I know, but the more hard, the more fun.


----------



## Leif

Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> Let me translate for you: Es mucho mejor ser nivel 3 que nivel 2, para la supervivencia.
> 
> Yeah I know, but the more hard, the more fun.



Si, Senor Dalomock!  But, I just now remembered that I also suggested that you might be level 2 starting out, if you used enough experience points making potions so that your experience point total dropped below the minimum for third level.  Is that what you did?  (If so, how many potions does that require, anyway?)  Or do you just want to be second level for purely masochistic reasons of your own?   hehe (Joke!!)

Que es "supervivencia", por favor?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Que es "supervivencia", por favor?




surviveability


----------



## Voda Vosa

Yes, its like saving you own ass.

AS for the potions, no I did not, but its an excellent idea, since my gnome is an alchemy oriented mage.


----------



## Leif

Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> Yes, its like saving you own ass.
> AS for the potions, no I did not, but its an excellent idea, since my gnome is an alchemy oriented mage.



You are free to do that.  Just try to have it finished and have Dalomock updated as soon as you can, ok?  My brand new shipment of ideas is arriving now, and I anticipate moving forward very, very soon.  So we don't need to have characters showing up with new potions and things in the middle of the action, you understand.


----------



## Scott DeWar

for the record, i am still needing to look at the other's spell books...i have recently alluviated my computer of its stubborn resistance to getting on the internet and i am now going to get serious with this thread.

Voda: you said my capixxio can look at you spell book? feel free to look at what i have in mine!!


----------



## Leif

Evidently the spellbook-copying thing is still in progress.  That's cool.  Guess I was too uptight and strict about that stuff.  My intention is that every character will have basically every first and second level spell in which he/she has any interest whatsoever, except, of course, for spells in his/her prohibited schools.  The spellbook copying guidelines were just a way to accomplish that.  That may or may not be the way things actually work out, though....


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> Evidently the spellbook-copying thing is still in progress.  That's cool.  Guess I was too uptight and strict about that stuff.



Well Ryfte hasn't posted anything since putting Mikkanna Raschika up about a week ago (which still seems to not be complete) and J. Alexander hasn't even posted on the OOC thread at all yet. So trading with Mikkanna and Gregory Malfoy is in limbo right now. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Well Ryfte hasn't posted anything since putting Mikkanna Raschika up about a week ago (which still seems to not be complete) and J. Alexander hasn't even posted on the OOC thread at all yet. So trading with Mikkanna and Gregory Malfoy is in limbo right now.



JA hasn't been posting lately in all of his own games, even.  But, I think that perhaps he forgets to check these things too?  I haven't specifically heard about any holiday travel plans that he had, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if he is currently away from home, as so many are.  Still, think Mikkanna might want to try to find the spells that Gregory has in someone else's book?


----------



## J. Alexander

*Trades*

Gregory will make arrangement with anyone who wishes to copy spells from his book.


----------



## J. Alexander

*Request*

Hey Guys

I have been observing the thread and following along and would like to make a small request...when the dm is presenting the party with a problem or setting up the adventure...please give everyone a chance to post or chime in...what happens is that the action gets advanced by the dm and other characters and if there is a delay in posting by other pc's they find when they sign back in that the course of action has already been decided on and or advacned to the point that what they may or may not have done becomes moot. Of course this does not apply to sidebars bewteen the dm and character or character to character but more in regards to actually actions.   Anyway thanks.


----------



## Voda Vosa

In that case I guess its the DM job to give everyone a chance, if he/she decides not, well, not.


----------



## Leif

My intention, usually, is to give everyone a chance to "chime in."  Within reason.  Now, when the group was trying to decide about where to go for supper, and things like that: First of all, deciding what to do about supper for the characters just doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things, and Second, I gave everybody a day or two to "chime in" and it seemed like all who wanted to had done so.  I will usually not be able to give everyone a full week to check on the thread, but I will do what I can.  If anyone is getting impatient and wants to move faster, then by all means, let me know.


----------



## Scotley

J. Alexander said:
			
		

> Gregory will make arrangement with anyone who wishes to copy spells from his book.




Tylara isn't afraid of Malfoy   , and will be happy to trade.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Hey, can I get a riding dog as a companion that can also be used in a "pack mule" type role. You talked about not wanting familiars so I wasn't sure how you'd feel. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Hey, can I get a riding dog as a companion that can also be used in a "pack mule" type role. You talked about not wanting familiars so I wasn't sure how you'd feel.



Yeah, sure.  And I'll probably reconsider about familiars in another level or two.  (maybe three?)

However, the beastie will not be permitted anywhere inside the Academy above the ground floor, and he/she will have to stay in the attached stable most of the time.  I'm not sure if this will fill your need for "companionship."  Maybe Kerlan needs a girlfriend?


----------



## Shayuri

Hee hee

Out of curiosity, why the ban on familiars anyway? It's no big deal...just seems unusual.


----------



## Leif

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hee hee
> Out of curiosity, why the ban on familiars anyway? It's no big deal...just seems unusual.



Good point.  That was just a way to streamline characters and keep the game as simple as possible while we were getting started.  Plus, I don't want Whirtlestaffs turning into a bloody ZOO, either.   But, having said that, perhaps I was too hasty in my prohibition.  Do I hear a Motion from the floor to allow familiars?


----------



## FreeXenon

I'm OK with it. I usually forget about the little buggers anyhow. We have a bonus feat for it, so I am happy!


----------



## Shayuri

I personally like familiars...though I can understand your concern about a wizarding school up to its ears in little animals.

Of course, the Potter wizards got to keep pets, and they weren't always underfoot. Maybe the school has a special spot for familiars while the students are busy. They can go visit them, even take them out for walks and such, but generally the familiars stay in the pen or something, unless you go off campus...


----------



## Leif

*RE-THINKING THE FAMILIAR ISSUE, or Unfamiliar Familiar Circumstances*



			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> I personally like familiars...though I can understand your concern about a wizarding school up to its ears in little animals.
> Of course, the Potter wizards got to keep pets, and they weren't always underfoot. Maybe the school has a special spot for familiars while the students are busy. They can go visit them, even take them out for walks and such, but generally the familiars stay in the pen or something, unless you go off campus...



I'm open to something like that.  How about a sort of "conservatory"-type room where the apparent inside dimensions don't match the outside dimensions.  Much like the way the holodeck works on Star Trek, but it is not an illusion.  Instead it's a kind of magical extradimensional effect, that allows an area of forest glade, meadow, and brook to be tucked away inside Whirtlestaffs, and where the familiars can run and play freely.  I'm thinking that it will function like Heward's Handy Haversack, in that when a wizard enters the conservatory (unless someone has a better name for it) his/her familiar will always be near the door.  And to make it even handier, the conservatory would have one entrance near the dormitories so wizards could get to their familiars quickly and easily from their personal rooms, but it would also have an exit to the attached stable area, so that you could pick up your familiar and take him/her/it with you for an outing without ever actually having the familiar in the parts of Whirtlestaffs reserved for people.  How does that sound?


----------



## Scotley

I am in favor of familiars. Your stable area sounds like and eminently practical solution to the problems of familiars and their droppings always being underfoot. I'd recommend a large staff of unseen servants man the stable. Perhaps casting and commanding such unseen servants and using lots of clean cantrips would be a common penance for students who commit infractions of the rules?


----------



## FreeXenon

Scotely, I completely missed your IC post. Crap. I have been waiting for it.   
I will get right on it.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> I am in favor of familiars. Your stable area sounds like and eminently practical solution to the problems of familiars and their droppings always being underfoot. I'd recommend a large staff of unseen servants man the stable. Perhaps casting and commanding such unseen servants and using lots of clean cantrips would be a common penance for students who commit infractions of the rules?



Oooh, I LIKE it!!  How about a corps of permanent unseen servants maintained by the faculty, with additional unseen servants provided by the students subject to punishment?  Given this cleaning crew, you could eat off the stable floor!  (If you were of a mind to do so, that is....hehe)


----------



## Scotley

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> Scotely, I completely missed your IC post. Crap. I have been waiting for it.
> I will get right on it.




No worries. I wondered if something was up, you've been posting very regularly and then just sort of dropped out of sight. I thought maybe Durgeon had passed out on the floor.


----------



## FreeXenon

I am glad you mentioned it otherwise I would have missed it. 
LOL! That would be the day! 19 con makes for a lot o'ale.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Oooh, I LIKE it!!  How about a corps of permanent unseen servants maintained by the faculty, with additional unseen servants provided by the students subject to punishment?  Given this cleaning crew, you could eat off the stable floor!  (If you were of a mind to do so, that is....hehe)




So can Tylara get a 'get out of pooper scooping free' card since I came up with the idea?


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> So can Tylara get a 'get out of pooper scooping free' card since I came up with the idea?



Sure!!  Here's how it will work:  The next time it's Tylara's turn to shovel out the stable, she will be free to skip it.  Her name will, however, remain at the top of the list.  So that means that it will be her turn again next week, and then there will be two weeks' worth of manure to remove!   

No, I'm just kidding.  Students aren't required to do things like that here.  If one just wants to help out with the odd spell here and there, sometimes, then that will be greatly appreciated, but it's not ever expected or required.  But that's a great way to rack up some major brownie points with the servant staff, if you ever want any for any reason....


----------



## Leif

So who here besides Voda Vosa is ready to go KILL something??!!!


----------



## FreeXenon

Me! Me! Me!


----------



## Scotley

Let's have some blood!

Has everyone agreed to allow their spells to be copied? Is it safe to say we've all had a shot at all the spells we want? If not from the original holder from somebody who traded?


----------



## FreeXenon

I'll need to look over again, but I should be close.


----------



## FreeXenon

Lets have a quick run down of who is trading with who. 

I mentioned Gregor, Tylara, and Alexandra would be the most likely to pry spells from his book.

As long as we have one person that is willing to share with everyone and that everyone will share with that person, we should be able to assume that everyone has access to everyone elses spells.


----------



## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> Lets have a quick run down of who is trading with who.
> I mentioned Gregor, Tylara, and Alexandra would be the most likely to pry spells from his book.
> As long as we have one person that is willing to share with everyone and that everyone will share with that person, we should be able to assume that everyone has access to everyone elses spells.



Well, to my knowledge, Durgeon is the only character who has even hinted that he might not trade with everyone.  Perhaps it would be simpler if all those who feel the same way Durgeon feels would indicate who can achieve access to their books?

And there is one more little quirk in your assumption, FX:  just because a person CAN access all of the party's spells, doesn't necessarily mean that that person WILL actually copy every single spell.  So, say this person doesn't want, for example, three spells.  And then say that there is someone else who is dying for those three spells, but the first person is the only one who will tade with this other person.  See?  

What you could also do is have every character make a "wish list" of spells that he/she wants that he/she doesn't have.  Then, someone who has one or more of those spells can say, "Ok, I'll give you spell x."  If you only focus on the spells that you are GIVING, instead of making everything a quid pro quo, then it should go more smoothly and everyone will have access to more spells, won't they?

And, incidentally, I've been reading through spots of the Spell Compendium lately, and there is some truly WICKED COOL stuff in there!!  Not to even mention Complete Argane and Complete Mage.  Complete Divine, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior and Complete Champion also have a few wizard spells, too....  LEAVE NO TERN UNSTONED!!  (Sorry, flashback to the bad jokes of my youth)

Oh, and it's Gregory, not Gregor.  It's my fault because we have an npc named Grygor.  Sorry, Gregory.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Well Ryfte still hasn't posted anything about Mikkanna Raschika. Do you want to check and make sure he's still in the game? Also, how are familiars working now? Do we have to take a feat to get them? Or have they not been replaced by that extra feat? 

KerlanRayne

PS - I've gotten spells from everyone (except Mikkanna). So everyone can look at my list for spells to copy.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Well Ryfte still hasn't posted anything about Mikkanna Raschika. Do you want to check and make sure he's still in the game? Also, how are familiars working now? Do we have to take a feat to get them? Or have they not been replaced by that extra feat?
> PS - I've gotten spells from everyone (except Mikkanna). So everyone can look at my list for spells to copy.



The post of Your message will come to Ryfte's attention as quickly as any method available to me, so.... Congratulations, you've already accomplished what you asked for!  Thanks for bringing that "feat deal" to my attention.  _Summon Familiar_ is just restored to its usual place as a bonus feat for all wizards, and no other feats that have been mentioned will be affected.  [At least, I guess not....does anyone have a problem with this?  Am I unintentionally slighting someone somehow?]


----------



## Scott DeWar

uh geeze...um i feel slighted by the overwhelming generosity of feats (just kidding!!!)


----------



## Scott DeWar

> Durgeon grunts and slugs Capizzio in the arm and says "You think you're a comedian, don't ya bone-chaser?




i laughed long and loud at this response...maybe there really is a bit o' sunshine in ol grumblebelly after all!!


----------



## Leif

"Bit o' sunshine?"  I don't know about that, but I think Durgeon really wants someone to help him make contact with his "inner Robin Williams/Richard Pryor."  Maybe a seance would do it?


----------



## FreeXenon

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> i laughed long and loud at this response...maybe there really is a bit o' sunshine in ol grumblebelly after all!!




I'm glad you liked it. It is hard to fit in any sort of real humor without it being caustic and have it fit.   It is difficult to play a character that is so negative all of the time.


----------



## Scott DeWar

grumble grumble...grumpy dwarves...grumble grumble...


----------



## Scott DeWar

*bump*

just putting this thread on page one


----------



## Leif

I have a question for many of you, Mikanna in particular.  I don't see where your character sheet records the spells that you have memorized for the current day.  I'd like this to be recorded in the RG thread.  That way everyone can coordinate their spells better, and I can see at once what everyone has and has left.


----------



## FreeXenon

*Memorized Spells*

My Memorized Spells are broken down into 2 lists:



		Code:
	

[B]Adventuring Spells Memorized[/B]
4      0  13/14  [*Caltrops],  RM, DM, Arcane Mark, Mage hand
1+2+1  1  14/15  [*Grease], Flaming Hands, *Grease, Mage Armor
1+1+1  2  15/16  [*SMII]     See Invis, *Web


[B]School Spells Memorized[/B]
4      0  13/14  [*Caltrops], DM RM, Presd, Mages Hand
1+2+1  1  14/15  [*Grease] Alarm, FD, Unseen Servant
1+1+1  2  15/16  [*SMII],   Fox's Cunning, Fox's Cunning

These have been posted in my character sheet in the RG.


----------



## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> These have been posted in my character sheet in the RG.



That's actually the way I'd prefer it to be done for everyone.  Thanks.


----------



## Shayuri

I hate to do this, but I've been having a lot of trouble with Alexandra...she's just not working out for me for some reason. I'm not sure why. Anyway, rather than belabor the point, I shall be withdrawing from the game before it crosses the point of no return, as it were.

My thanks for all of your patience...and best wishes for what I hope will be a fun and entertaining game!


----------



## FreeXenon

I am sorry to hear that.


----------



## Scotley

I can't believe Alexandra is abandoning Tylara with all these men! I do understand though. Girl Genus is great, but I always feel uncomfortable with a character that isn't completely mine. See you around some time.


----------



## Shayuri

No no, Alexandra is mine...in fact, I based her on a character I played in another game briefly...

Girl Genius was just a visual reference.

But...for some reason it isn't clicking this time. I can't get her right. It may just be I've finally hit my limit on games.


----------



## Leif

*Awwwww, Shayuri!!*



			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> I hate to do this, but I've been having a lot of trouble with Alexandra...she's just not working out for me for some reason. I'm not sure why. Anyway, rather than belabor the point, I shall be withdrawing from the game before it crosses the point of no return, as it were.
> My thanks for all of your patience...and best wishes for what I hope will be a fun and entertaining game!



Maybe a brief hiatus will change your mind?  The rest of the wizards can continue without you for now, we can say that you're pursuing some graduate study in the Academy, so that you can pick up where you left off (with a commensurate xp award, too, if it won't start a mutiny!)

And you are the one who's been patient with my feeble dming!  Sorry about that, I THINK I'm slowly getting the hang of it?  :\


----------



## Leif

*Capizzio, Mikanna, any others?*

I just noticed that Capizzio and Mikanna are children of librarians at the Academy.  One of them is the offspring of the Head Librarian.  That's fine.  Remember, though, there are several libraries located in the Academy, _that you know of_, and being the self-absorbed individuals that they are, certain professors favor certain libraries, and more than one professor could "appoint" a "chief librarian" for his favorite library.  So there is certainly not a shortage of Chief Librarians of Whirtlestaff's!

Also, I was looking over some character sheets and saw some spells that I didn't immediately recognize.  I know this may be a pain, but it would really be of great benefit to me if whenever your spellbook contains a spell that is not in the ph, you write down in (parentheses) immediately following the spell's name the book where that spell is found, whether it is CA, CM, SC, CC, CW, CA, or whatever.  And yes, Complete Warrior, Complete Champion, and Complete Adventurer do contain a few arcane spells as well, so don't forget them.  These books were not listed as an available resource at first because I had no idea that they did, indeed, have wizard spells stuck off in some Rogue book, for example.  Silly me, you would think that I would know after dealing with the way this company (by whatever their nom du Jour may be) does things!


----------



## Scott DeWar

> you would think that I would know after dealing with the way this company (by whatever their nom du Jour may be) does things!



there is a normality?


----------



## Scott DeWar

*Epiphany*



			
				Leif said:
			
		

> I just noticed that Capizzio and Mikanna are children of librarians at the Academy.  One of them is the offspring of the Head Librarian.  That's fine.  Remember, though, there are several libraries located in the Academy, _that you know of_, and being the self-absorbed individuals that they are, certain professors favor certain libraries, and more than one professor could "appoint" a "chief librarian" for his favorite library.  So there is certainly not a shortage of Chief Librarians of Whirtlestaff's!
> 
> Also, I was looking over some character sheets and saw some spells that I didn't immediately recognize.  I know this may be a pain, but it would really be of great benefit to me if whenever your spellbook contains a spell that is not in the ph, you write down in (parentheses) immediately following the spell's name the book where that spell is found, whether it is CA, CM, SC, CC, CW, CA, or whatever.  And yes, Complete Warrior, Complete Champion, and Complete Adventurer do contain a few arcane spells as well, so don't forget them.  These books were not listed as an available resource at first because I had no idea that they did, indeed, have wizard spells stuck off in some Rogue book, for example.  Silly me, you would think that I would know after dealing with the way this company (by whatever their nom du Jour may be) does things!




btw, where in this does it say that his either of his parents are a chief libarian?:

Hello. my name is Capizzio Del Collines, son of the professor del Collines, historian and seeker of antiquities for the wizard’s academy. My mother has a teaching position in the arcane studies of the academy as well.. they know I am a bit of a wild sort at heart, but they still keep tabs on me.


Edit:
also, i just had this thought...perhaps a master spell list showing all spells available to us from each other?  perhaps somewhere on the rg thread?


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> I just noticed that Capizzio and Mikanna are children of librarians at the Academy.  One of them is the offspring of the Head Librarian.  That's fine.  Remember, though, there are several libraries located in the Academy, _that you know of_, and being the self-absorbed individuals that they are, certain professors favor certain libraries, and more than one professor could "appoint" a "chief librarian" for his favorite library.  So there is certainly not a shortage of Chief Librarians of Whirtlestaff's!
> 
> Also, I was looking over some character sheets and saw some spells that I didn't immediately recognize.  I know this may be a pain, but it would really be of great benefit to me if whenever your spellbook contains a spell that is not in the ph, you write down in (parentheses) immediately following the spell's name the book where that spell is found, whether it is CA, CM, SC, CC, CW, CA, or whatever.  And yes, Complete Warrior, Complete Champion, and Complete Adventurer do contain a few arcane spells as well, so don't forget them.  These books were not listed as an available resource at first because I had no idea that they did, indeed, have wizard spells stuck off in some Rogue book, for example.  Silly me, you would think that I would know after dealing with the way this company (by whatever their nom du Jour may be) does things!




Most of the spells from the earlier complete books should be in spell compendium. However, Complete Mage, Complete Champion, and PH2 will not be in there. There were a few spells in the 'races of' books too. Cityscape has some spells and their may be some spells from heroes of horror that will appeal to Malfoy. ;-) Although, the summon undead spells did make it into a later source. 

Anyway, I have been remiss in putting down the spells from other books into Tylara's. I was about to go pilfering if the DM approves I can put the results of my search into an RG post.


----------



## Leif

*"If the DM Approves?"  --  AND -- Ryfte??*

What's there for me to approve?  I've already given my blessing and encouragement of spell sharing.  I generally wish that you wouldn't take spells from the "races of ...." books, or any books except ph, ph2, dmg, Spell Compendium, and the "complete..." books.  The reason for that is because I don't have them!  Well, ok, I've also got CITYSCAPE, but the only spell that I remember seeing in there is Summon Swarm, which is, I think, in Spell Compendium, anyway.  Or, maybe it's in one of the complete books.  No matter, I know I have it in some book besides Cityscape.  As always, if you want some spell that you have even a shadow of a doubt about, just ask.

Anybody seen Mikkana Raschika?  Hurry back, Ryfte!


----------



## J. Alexander

*Rogues Gallery*

I cant find the thread to the RG so here is what you requested.

OCC: I can understand his problem I am also having a hard time getting the grasp of Malfoy and the game and I dont know why. Perhaps is it due to me being distracted with other things....I am sure it will click in time


----------



## Scott DeWar

*bump* ing to first page


----------



## FreeXenon

*Rogues Gallery Link*

Rogues Gallery Link


----------



## Leif

Yeah, I understand about the lack of "clicks" with this game.  Hopefully, it'll begin to click for all of us when we start a real adventure.  It's just waiting for you now.....


----------



## Scott DeWar

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> *bump* ing to first page




re-bump


----------



## Leif

Do Da Bump, Da-Bump, Da-Bump


----------



## Scott DeWar

i seem to recall "da-bump" being a 70's dance move...does that give any indication of how old you are?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> i seem to recall "da-bump" being a 70's dance move...does that give any indication of how old you are?



Don't remind my decrepit old butt!


----------



## Scott DeWar

that's ok...when i was in the airforce we had pterradactles instead of planes.

by the way, thatnks for the clerification on the spells and scrolls...Capizzio is ready to do the exchange...just not sure if we are going to rp it or not.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> that's ok...when i was in the airforce we had pterradactles instead of planes.
> by the way, thatnks for the clerification on the spells and scrolls...Capizzio is ready to do the exchange...just not sure if we are going to rp it or not.



OOC:  LOL!
OOC:  No, we don't have to, just go ahead and help yourself!  Then let me know when you're all set to proceed.


----------



## Scott DeWar

i have a question reguarding holy water...

given: there is 25 gp worth of silver used to make it 
given: it costs 25 gp to buy it
given: that 25 gp of powdered silver weighs 5 lb as per the spell description that makes holy water (see bless water), 

...why does it only weigh 1 lb? 
what happened to the other 4 lbs, not to mention the water weight?


----------



## Scotley

It is converted to energy in a quantum state. That energy is drawn back to the game's three-dimensional universe from said quantum state when the water contacts an unholy being. Hence the damage to undead. It seems that a great deal of the energy is lost in the transitions to and from energy in a quantum state. Otherwise holy water would be as powerful as a thermonuclear explosion. Simple quantum physics really.


----------



## Scott DeWar

how very douglas adams-ish of you...just as much so as my post here: http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3902892&postcount=475


----------



## Scotley




----------



## Leif

*DM's Boo Boo*

I realized this morning that I have made a grave error in describing the layout of the area, vis-a-vis the relatioship of Whitlestaff's to the temple to the city, and all of that.  In Post #1 I said that Whirtlestaff's was IN the city.  So..... the upshot of all of this is that we will be returning to the vision of the world of Post #1.  The temple complex is also in the same city, and the "meadow", of course, is outside the city.  I REALLY gotta get a map done!  But, unfortunately, my computer at home has an inoperable tumor at the moment, so I am forced to use the computer in my office for this present post.  My scanner, however, is still at home, and will be staying there.  Hopefully I can get wunna dem rabid tech monkeys to come out and get me fixed tomorrow, but it may take a few more days.  Sorry, guys!  Thanks for bearing with me!


----------



## Scotley

I understand technical difficulties all too well. Mine usually stem from letting three kids use the computer at home. Sic the rabid tech monkeys on the gremlins!


----------



## Leif

The Appointment is made!  A rabid tech monkey is scheduled to appear at my door at 4:15 pm today.  Let's hope he can handily and rapidly dispatch the cyber -bugs!

And just to re-emphasize things:  both Whirtlestaffs and the temple are INSIDE the city, so that journey that we didn't play out was just a walk in the park, literally!


----------



## Scott DeWar

hmmm...a walk in the park, eh...better keep an eye on that dwarf and elf!


----------



## Leif

*Saga of a DM's Computer Woes*

The Bat-Winged Tech-Monkey did, indeed appear as if by magic, in a cloud of blue smoke.  He waved his wand and my computer was instantly spirited off to the Enchanted Mountain to undergo a diagnostic baptism and a ritual cleansing.  Unless the demons are able to breach the stronghold of the Enchanted Mountain, it should be returned to our service tomorrow or Thursday.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> The Bat-Winged Tech-Monkey did, indeed appear as if by magic, in a cloud of blue smoke.  He waved his wand and my computer was instantly spirited off to the Enchanted Mountain to undergo a diagnostic baptism and a ritual cleansing.  Unless the demons are able to breach the stronghold of the Enchanted Mountain, it should be returned to our service tomorrow or Thursday.



With no news on the issue we must only assume that their defenses were breached and the Enchanted Mountain has been overrun. Hopefully the computer is merely being held hostage and all we need is a brave band of adventurers to rescue it and return it safely, with all of it's afflictions cured. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Scott DeWar

perhaps the enchanted moutain stronghold is under siege by the E-forces of the deamon web pits!!! and still intact, though the defensive magics may be strained...


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> With no news on the issue we must only assume that their defenses were breached and the Enchanted Mountain has been overrun. Hopefully the computer is merely being held hostage and all we need is a brave band of adventurers to rescue it and return it safely, with all of it's afflictions cured.
> KerlanRayne



Your well-wishes and support are truly gratifying.  Thank you.  Unfortunately, the Windows citadel was where the breach occurred, and certain of the King's (cpu's) men-at-arms (files) were corrupted.  The bat-winged tech-monkey did not have in his bandolier of cds-ROM a full copy of Windows with which to replace the corrupted files.  (What an incompetent lout!)  At this point, the maitre-d'maison (c'est moi!) became quite irate and ran said bat-winged tech-monkey far away from the castle, and I refused to lower the drawbridge, so he had to swim the moat!      I'm using my computer at work at the moment, and my parents have offered to let me use theirs whenever I wish, so I'm still able to limp along somewhat.  I have a call in to someone who should be able to help me resolve the issue, but I have not heard back yet.  At worst, I'll just have to buy a new cpu and start from scratch. (But, damn!  Didn't I just do that last year??)

[Translation:  My computer is home again, but thanks to corruption of windows, I cannot access the internet at all.   ]


----------



## Scott DeWar

i don't know if this will help, but my comp. went on the fritz a couple of months back and woud not let me access the internet, eathernet or use the multi-player funtion on my diablo II game...i went to the screen with the ...oh lord, what are those called... the drivers ...and i hit the "refresh" button on that page.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Corrupted files sound like it might be a hard drive problem. Have you tried a program like Spinrite? It's really small so I could email you a copy I you need it. You would have to make a boot CD or a boot floppy (<- That means it's really small) You could leave it running overnight and see how it works. 

KerlanRayne

PS - We could talk about it more on IM. If you don't have the right program installed on the computer you're using, you could try Meebo.com. It's great.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Corrupted files sound like it might be a hard drive problem. Have you tried a program like Spinrite? It's really small so I could email you a copy I you need it. You would have to make a boot CD or a boot floppy (<- That means it's really small) You could leave it running overnight and see how it works.
> 
> KerlanRayne
> 
> PS - We could talk about it more on IM. If you don't have the right program installed on the computer you're using, you could try Meebo.com. It's great.



See, Kerlan, that's the whole problem, I can't get on the internet at all, so I can't IM you and I can't send email.  I emailed my cousin from work this morning.  Her husband is the programming whiz.  She said she was gonna make him help me, too!     So, a few more days, I should be back up and running.  If not, I'll probably get really frustrated and go out and buy a new system or something stupid like that.  Ahhh, WTH, it's only money, righhhht?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> See, Kerlan, that's the whole problem, I can't get on the internet at all, so I can't IM you and I can't send email.



Well I don't see what the problem is. If you can post messages on here without getting on the internet then you should have no trouble fixing it yourself.   Anyway, Meebo.com is an internet based IM website. There is no software to install. You just visit the site and log into your IM service. You can send IMs directly from your web browser. It's really cool. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Scott DeWar

i think he is posting from work or his parents' computer...i don't remember what he said earlier.


----------



## Leif

*hehehe*



			
				KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Well I don't see what the problem is. If you can post messages on here without getting on the internet then you should have no trouble fixing it yourself.   Anyway, Meebo.com is an internet based IM website. There is no software to install. You just visit the site and log into your IM service. You can send IMs directly from your web browser. It's really cool.





			
				Scott Dewar said:
			
		

> i think he is posting from work or his parents' computer...i don't remember what he said earlier.



Heh.  Yes, Scott is right on both counts, and I mentioned both surrogate computers earlier.  Hopefully, sometime in the next few days, I'll be able to get mine running again.  Keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## Scott DeWar

and cross your toes and eyes too!


----------



## FreeXenon

*Familiars*

I know that there was discussion about familiars, but what was the final result? 
Can we all have familars? Do we have them automatically? 
Do we have to pay for them (100gp) or  something else?


----------



## Leif

*Familiars*

You have them if you want them.  No pressure.  Completely up to individual choice.  There was discussion previously about the room in Whirtlestaffs where the familiars live and how it has a direct connection to the stables, because the Familiar Room is the only place in Whirtlestaffs where animals are permitted.


----------



## FreeXenon

That is what I was thinking.
Thanks.


----------



## Leif

Anytime!


----------



## Leif

*Back in the DM saddle...*

Yay!  I'm back online from home!  Turns out that I just needed a new ethernet card....


----------



## Scott DeWar

that is a reletively cheap fix too! congrats!!


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> that is a reletively cheap fix too! congrats!!



especially since I had a spare in my desk drawer!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> especially since I had a spare in my desk drawer!





niiiice!

btw...Lief, i sent you a privet message...if you do not get it let me know


----------



## Leif

Message received.  Reply in the works right now.  Please hang in there for me?


----------



## Scott DeWar

read the reply...hanging in there!

dewar's scotch...i'm not as thinking stink as you drunk i am osifer!


----------



## Leif

Thanks!  Now I'll have to be sure and make it well worth your trouble.


----------



## Leif

It is SOOO cool not to have to wade through the list of every game going on here to find the ones that really matter to me!


----------



## FreeXenon

*Excel Viewer*

*Scott DeWar* you can download the Excel Excel Reader (10MB) to be able to view it.

or if you are feeling really feisty this morning you can download Open Office (really big file)


----------



## Scott DeWar

big dummy me...xls = spreadsheet...thanks all, especially free Xenon, i can read that...


----------



## Scott DeWar

bipity, bapity bump...this thread now to the first go thump!


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> ]ooc[ If you trust me enough, I can just roll with real dice...otherwise, I am still having issues with the invisible castle web sight...
> 
> I could potentially use irony dice server (with your approval) and send the verification as e-mail to you (which is how irony verifies), since invisible castle is presently unreadable to my computer. I use irony with msn games (Adventures in role-playing).



If you use Internet Explorer to use the site you may want to try using Firefox. If you don't want to install it you can try using Firefox Portable. It will extract a fully usable Firefox browser, all in a single folder. It won't change any files on the computer and you can get rid of it just by deleting that folder. I have it on a USB drive and can use it on any computer.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Special announcement:

this is an early advance warning for a planned absense.

I will be visiting family and away from computer access from 20 march to 24 march...will repeat transmission at a time closer to the date of dissappearence...end transmission


----------



## Scott DeWar

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> If you use Internet Explorer to use the site you may want to try using Firefox. If you don't want to install it you can try using Firefox Portable. It will extract a fully usable Firefox browser, all in a single folder. It won't change any files on the computer and you can get rid of it just by deleting that folder. I have it on a USB drive and can use it on any computer.




interesting...i will have try that...


----------



## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> "Dust Off, Bone boy!" Durgeon sneers [to Cappizzio].



I thought "Bone Boy" was your name for Malfoy, not Capizzio??  I guess Durgeon sees a bone boy hiding behind every bush?  lol


----------



## FreeXenon

LOL!  I am sharing pet names. 

I will have to keep better track of that. Hmmm.....


----------



## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> LOL!  I am sharing pet names.
> 
> I will have to keep better track of that. Hmmm.....



You can always check Post #1 in the RG for a current list of the following information:   player handle, character name, race, and specialty (if any).

How do you think *I* keep up with that stuff??  Well, that's not strictly true anymore.  I've learned almost everyone by now.


----------



## Scott DeWar

are you suggesting that the grumpy dwarf called my character "bone boy"? shurely the surly one did not do that!?


----------



## FreeXenon

I hath done as such ..... Boneboy!    

Becarefull lest I taunt you a second time....


----------



## Scott DeWar

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> If you use Internet Explorer to use the site you may want to try using Firefox. If you don't want to install it you can try using Firefox Portable. It will extract a fully usable Firefox browser, all in a single folder. It won't change any files on the computer and you can get rid of it just by deleting that folder. I have it on a USB drive and can use it on any computer.




Kerlan, thanks for the lead on the firefox, but that sight was giving me the same troubles...over sized text. i thought, "self," (that is what i call my self is self...when i address me), "self maybe i need to open an account." ...so i tried...the lettering proble is still there.

"way to go self! that got us no where fast!"

By the way, i hope somebody out there laughs at how i put this

Update: Ok all...previous google searches were done by a computer half wit old man...i ...er, the old man now has a possible fix for the text prob and an announcement of the degree of success will be posted soon.

Updadte on oversized text problem:

AAARRRGGGGHHHH! tech fix didn't fix


----------



## KerlanRayne

Over sized text? Is it only on that site? The only two things I can think of are go in the "View" menu and change the "Text Size," either that or change the default font used. Other than that, I can't really help. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Leif

Just a note to let you know that my posting will be impaired for the next few days, due to illness.  I have the dreaded non-specific flu-like bug, but the test for flu was negative.

Leif

(Sorry about that.  Translation:  DM is sick!)


----------



## Leif

*For KerlanRayne*

Let it go, son, let it go.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Kerlan has strong ethical beliefs and just doesn't appreciate the condescending attitude. I'll have him drop the argument, but he won't forget how the professor has treated him. I want to make it clear, however, that I have no problems with you. This is an in character issue so there are no hard feelings between us. OK?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Kerlan has strong ethical beliefs and just doesn't appreciate the condescending attitude. I'll have him drop the argument, but he won't forget how the professor has treated him. I want to make it clear, however, that I have no problems with you. This is an in character issue so there are no hard feelings between us. OK?



The Professor didn't "treat" Kerlan badly.  Kobolds are snotty little, whiny EVIL lizard dudes!  They are responsible for more killing and destruction than could possibly be caused by wiping the entire species off the planet.  If Kerlan wants to have strong ethics then, hey, that's fine, and I'm all for it, but for goodness sakes, pick something besides kobolds for him to stick up for, ok?


----------



## Scott DeWar

hey leif, arn't you supposed to be getting well, as in resting?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> hey leif, arn't you supposed to be getting well, as in resting?



Yes, and you're point is???  Oh, my goodness!  You're right!  You're right!  Now I've gone and given myself an acute strain of the middle finger!  Ohh, woe is me!  It'll be weeks before I can properly shoot someone the bird now.


----------



## FreeXenon

I am going to have to withdraw from the game.
I apologize to everyone here.

 I have really enjoyed the characters and our interaction.


----------



## Scotley

Tylara will never be the same without Durgeon. I am sorry to see you go. I hope we'll have a chance to game together again some time.


----------



## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> I am going to have to withdraw from the game.
> I apologize to everyone here.
> 
> I have really enjoyed the characters and our interaction.



Can you give me a clue about why, at least??


----------



## FreeXenon

The disrespectful interaction between both the DM and players is not to my liking.


----------



## Leif

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> The disrespectful interaction between both the DM and players is not to my liking.



Nor is it to mine, either!  Hey, wait up!  I'll leave with you.  Would the last one here, please turn out the lights as you leave?  Thanks.


----------



## Scott DeWar

hey guys! wait up! 



> Now I've gone and given myself an acute strain of the middle finger! Ohh, woe is me! It'll be weeks before I can properly shoot someone the bird now.




hey leif...teach you right for flipping me the bird before you are well (heh heh heh!)


----------



## J. Alexander

"Gregory blows the laterns out thus dimming the room unti lit is almost dark and quitely exits"

Let me know when the lamps are relighted.


----------



## Leif

*Lamps*

Ok, let's get these things fired up again!  We've had some rough times lately, and had another round of desertions/defections.  Yes, I was pretty depressed about that for awhile, but life, as they say, goes on.  I've reached the only logical conclusion that those of us who are left, if there are any of us left besides me, are the truly dedicated players who have just the spunk and stubbornness to make this work.  So..... I'm open to suggestions at this point.  What are the wildest dreams of my wizard corps?  How do you want to spend your time?  As part of an army unit providing artillery support to cavalry and infantry?  As  dragonslayers extraordinaire?  As crafters of strange and powerful magic items?  The world, as they also say, is your oyster.  Tell me what you guys want to do, and we'll do it.

Oh, and, to those who are still determined to play this game,  THANKS!

And Scot DeWar:  I didn't flip my bird at you     I know enough not to flip the high, hard one to a wizard!  (You think I have a death wish?)


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> ....Oh, and, to those who are still determined to play this game,  THANKS!
> 
> And Scot DeWar:  I didn't flip my bird at you     I know enough not to flip the high, hard one to a wizard!  (You think I have a death wish?)




i am still here...as for what i want to t do? is there some community that has a mystery to be solved and or dungeon crawl?

Re death wish:


well now that you mention it...you do live in arcansaw, so i am not sure of you stability of sanity


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> i am still here...as for what i want to t do? is there some community that has a mystery to be solved and or dungeon crawl?
> 
> Re death wish:
> well now that you mention it...you do live in arcansaw, so i am not sure of you stability of sanity



Glad you're still here.  Hmmm, you might just be able to find something like a mystery to be solved or a dungeon to be crawled through, but I'd rather wait a bit more first and see what everyone's preference is.  You're the first repsonder.

Yeah, I do live in Arkansas, but it's not like I had a choice in the matter!  Of course, by now I could have left, I guess, but it is true that the crappy place that you know seems somehow better than the crappy place that you don't know.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> I want to make it clear, however, that I have no problems with you. This is an in character issue so there are no hard feelings between us. OK?



I hope you still feel this way.


----------



## J. Alexander

*Game*

Given that we are a brave band of wizards with some bang bang at our disposal there are numerous possabilities...so hereare my thoughts

1 al la Harry Potter, it could be cool to have a serious of adventures based on saving / protecting items of great power....or fighting against a cabal of dark wizards

2. How about questing for lost towers of magic or searching out old homes of wizards for unique spell books etc....

3.Assigned to a military unit as it's magical arm.....


----------



## Scott DeWar

I like J Alaxander's ideas one and two personally


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> I like J Alaxander's ideas one and two personally



Yeah, I like those as well.  So, looks like now we've dwindled down to just you, JA, and Scotley. *sigh*  Anyone else that I'm forgetting?


----------



## Voda Vosa

I like ideas number 2 and 3


----------



## Scotley

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been out of town. I like JA's one and two. I'm less thrilled about #3 but not completely averse to it. I'm not keen on crafting and will the prospect of Dragonslaying is very appealing, I'd say we have to earn some levels first. Mysteries are always good.


----------



## Leif

Well, since I am blissfully unaware of any military conflicts on the immediate horizon, I believe that it is safe to assume that any military action that might require the forcible drafting of any available wizards will not arise without at least some significant warning for any conscientious objectors, draft-dodgers, or other non-participants.

So let's see who we still have in the group now.  That should be:   JA, Scotley, Scott DeWar, Voda Vosa, and hopefullly, KerlanRayne.  Anyone else still with us?  I've invited Mowgli to re-join us, but I fear he may have missed the invitation, as it was added as an afterthought to a message sent to him regarding another game.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> I hope you still feel this way.



Yes, I'm still here. I'll go along with whatever the others decide. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Scott DeWar

that is five of us...still a good number!


----------



## Leif

Make that SIX!  Looks like Mowgli may be back, too.  Pandak Kaswitikan is otherwise occpied, however, so he'll be rolling a new wizard.


----------



## KerlanRayne

So, it looks like a lot of time has now passed in the game. How much has changed? Are we still 3rd level? What about money?


----------



## Leif

*Time...*

Let's say that about one year has passed.  Put yourselves 250 xp above the minimum for 4th level.  Money?  You've each managed to squirrel away about 2,500 gp over the lapse of time.  Spend it as you wish, and this will give everyone more time and resources for the crafting of magic items, as well.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> Let's say that about one year has passed.  Put yourselves 250 xp above the minimum for 4th level.  Money?  You've each managed to squirrel away about 2,500 gp over the lapse of time.  Spend it as you wish, and this will give everyone more time and resources for the crafting of magic items, as well.



Cool. Previously, you said that it would be hard to make an item found in the MIC, is that still true? If yes, would it be hard to just buy an item? Also, I was just curious about the low cash decision. It it just your style? Is it to compensate for all the magic we have? Maybe something else? I was just wondering, I'm not fighting it or anything. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Cool. Previously, you said that it would be hard to make an item found in the MIC, is that still true? If yes, would it be hard to just buy an item? Also, I was just curious about the low cash decision. It it just your style? Is it to compensate for all the magic we have? Maybe something else? I was just wondering, I'm not fighting it or anything.
> KerlanRayne



OOC:  Go ahead and make MIC items if you meet the prereqs.  About the low cash thing:  it's partially kinda unintentional, kinda my style, I guess, and, really, I just can't imagine what you could be wanting to spend that much money to buy.  You can make lots of magic, and you should have a little extra xp to play with in that respect, and you've got plenty of gold to buy the materials you need (I think?).  Plus, it's also because I'm not bothering to keep up with daily costs of life, or what income you have, either, for that matter.  And since when did Graduate Assistant jobs pay that well, anyway?     Anyway, mainly, it's because I just pulled those numbers out of my head this morning.  If somebody has a major problem with it, tell me what and why and we'll see......


----------



## Leif

*Again, the DM relents*

Ok, ok, ok, let's make it an even 5,000 gp instead of 2,500.  (That still may not be quite what would be expected, but it is a 100% increase, after all.


----------



## J. Alexander

*Since your Relenting*

Hmmmmm since your relenting  how about 5th level to match the 5000gp and you could add in three or four feats,,,a souped up familar and give everone a staff of the magi ..


----------



## Leif

*"Relenting" not "Rolling Over"*



			
				J. Alexander said:
			
		

> Hmmmmm since your relenting  how about 5th level to match the 5000gp and you could add in three or four feats,,,a souped up familar and give everone a staff of the magi ..



I think that I've already been more than generous, thank you very much, so let's NOT push it, shall we??  Anyway, the Staff of the Magi is now an item of Artifact status, so it is presumably now intended to be a one-of-a-kind thing.  The best you could reasonably hope for is, I think, a Staff of Power, but that may be an artifact, too, come to think of it.  And, anyway, even if it isn't, the answer is still a resounding NO!!!!!


----------



## Scotley

Cool, I'll get Tylara updated to 4th level and give her some new toys this weekend.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Just a small question. What about combining items? Can we do it as described in the MIC? It might alter my item decisions.

PS - 5,000 would bring us a tad over 4th level, which is exactly where we are. It's very appreciated.  

EDIT: Intelligence changes don't change skill points retroactively do they? (I mean in this game, I know they don't normally)


----------



## Scott DeWar

hmmm...the fifth level request was not administartively declined...maybe....


----------



## Scotley

You mention crafting magic items, but at this point we are still limited to potions and scrolls right? Are we going to be able to craft some and trade them for something nifty? Or are you giving us more feats and I missed it?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Kerlan took Craft Wondrous Item as his 3rd level feat.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Just a small question. What about combining items? Can we do it as described in the MIC? It might alter my item decisions.
> PS - 5,000 would bring us a tad over 4th level, which is exactly where we are. It's very appreciated.
> EDIT: Intelligence changes don't change skill points retroactively do they? (I mean in this game, I know they don't normally)



No, they don't change skill point totals retroactively.  Nice try, though.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> You mention crafting magic items, but at this point we are still limited to potions and scrolls right? Are we going to be able to craft some and trade them for something nifty? Or are you giving us more feats and I missed it?



Yeah, I was thinking of Kerlan and his craft wolndrous item feat.  Also applies to anyone else who happened to take additional crafting feats, fo course.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> hmmm...the fifth level request was not administartively declined...maybe....



....NOT!!


----------



## KerlanRayne

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Just a small question. What about combining items? Can we do it as described in the MIC? It might alter my item decisions.



What about this?


----------



## Leif

Guess I need more sopecifics to answer that.  Combining WHAT and WHAT?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> Guess I need more specifics to answer that.  Combining WHAT and WHAT?



Combining two magic items together that use the same slot. For example: Combining some Boots of Elvenkind with some Boots of Striding and Springing. The resulting item would cost 5,500 gp + (2,500 gp * 1.5) = 9,250 gp. Common items like stat boosters, AC bonuses, etc, don't cost extra. A +2 INT Headband and a Hat of Disguise would cost 4,000 gp + 1,800 gp = 5,800 gp. Any other questions?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> ....NOT!!




ok...that seems to be a "non aquiese" of our humble request...parlaiet over


----------



## Scotley

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Kerlan took Craft Wondrous Item as his 3rd level feat.




Ah, my ignorance is showing. For some reason I had it in my head that all the craft feats besides potions and scrolls required caster level five. A quick check reveals that I was mistaken. Guess Tylara will have to be content with potions and scrolls until we get our bonus wizardly feat.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Combining two magic items together that use the same slot. For example: Combining some Boots of Elvenkind with some Boots of Striding and Springing. The resulting item would cost 5,500 gp + (2,500 gp * 1.5) = 9,250 gp. Common items like stat boosters, AC bonuses, etc, don't cost extra. A +2 INT Headband and a Hat of Disguise would cost 4,000 gp + 1,800 gp = 5,800 gp. Any other questions?



No, I think this is getting a bit too far afield for now.  Maybe later it might be a suitable subject for research?


----------



## Scott DeWar

so, did i see the following to be correct:

5000 gp accumulated coin and bottom of level 4?

or was it bottom of level 4 plus the leftover exp bonus from the 750 from the start?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> so, did i see the following to be correct:
> 
> 5000 gp accumulated coin and bottom of level 4?
> 
> or was it bottom of level 4 plus the leftover exp bonus from the 750 from the start?



Earlier she said this: 







			
				Leif said:
			
		

> Let's say that about one year has passed.  Put yourselves 250 xp above the minimum for 4th level.



So that means we have 6,250 XP and +5,000 gp. 







			
				Leif said:
			
		

> No, I think this is getting a bit too far afield for now.  Maybe later it might be a suitable subject for research?



Oh well. Thanks for the answer.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> so, did i see the following to be correct:
> 
> 5000 gp accumulated coin and bottom of level 4?
> 
> or was it bottom of level 4 plus the leftover exp bonus from the 750 from the start?



Bottom of 4th L + leftover from the 750xp bonus after crafting potions & scrolls (and anything else that anyone has the proper Feat to craft)


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> Let's say that about one year has passed.  Put yourselves 250 xp above the minimum for 4th level.





			
				Leif said:
			
		

> Bottom of 4th L + leftover from the 750xp bonus after crafting potions & scrolls (and anything else that anyone has the proper Feat to craft)



So does that mean 6,000 xp + leftover from 750 xp bonus, or is it 6,250 xp + leftover from 750 xp bonus.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> So does that mean 6,000 xp + leftover from 750 xp bonus, or is it 6,250 xp + leftover from 750 xp bonus.



I leave that up to personal preference.


----------



## Scotley

I've started updating my character. What spells are we adding to the collective spell book if any? Tylara is willing to continue to share. I'll post my preferences this evening if anyone still wants to trade.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> I've started updating my character. What spells are we adding to the collective spell book if any? Tylara is willing to continue to share. I'll post my preferences this evening if anyone still wants to trade.



For now, there can't be any ADDED, per se, however, you are, of course, free to trade amongst yourselves for any that you missed the last time.  (But, if you really wanted them, then why wouldn't you have taken them the first time, eh?)


----------



## Scotley

I was refering to the new spells we get for advancing to 4th level.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> I was refering to the new spells we get for advancing to 4th level.



I see, said the blind man.  Well, then, that's a horse of an entirely different color, isn't it?  I thought that you would have already done all of that stuff by now for the advancement to 4th, but, if not, there's still plenty of time.


----------



## Scotley

Sorry for the delay. I'm having some difficulty deciding which way to go with magic items and spells.


----------



## Leif

No hurry whatsoever.  Take your time.  Be sure you like your choices.


----------



## Scotley

Tylara was thinking of taking the following 2nd level spells:

Seeking Ray (ph2)
Malevolent Miasma (sc)
Bear's endurance
Detect thoughts


----------



## Leif

Scotley, re-check Ty's skills -- I thought I saw one where you gypped her out of a plus 1...


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Scotley, re-check Ty's skills -- I thought I saw one where you gypped her out of a plus 1...




Cool, I am trying to figure out how to spend my skill points now.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Kerlan is looking at these: 

Arcane Turmoil (CM): Targeted Dispel Magic + target lose 1 spell. 
Cloud of Knives (PHBII): Daggers for 1d6+(1/3 lvls) dmg per round.
Earthen Grasp (SC): Arm made of earth and soil grapples foes.
Rope Trick (PHB): Extradimensional Space

Can we add any first level spells for the normal cost? (And if you must know, I didn't see it the first time around.) Are we still sharing spells? Free or normal cost?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> 1. Can we add any first level spells for the normal cost?
> 2.  Are we still sharing spells? Free or normal cost?



1.  Yes, normal cost for materials.
2.  Presumably, but you'd better ask the character in question.  And it will be normal cost for materials.


----------



## Scott DeWar

i am yes on two


----------



## KerlanRayne

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Kerlan is looking at these:
> 
> Arcane Turmoil (CM): Targeted Dispel Magic + target lose 1 spell.
> Cloud of Knives (PHBII): Daggers for 1d6+(1/3 lvls) dmg per round.
> Earthen Grasp (SC): Arm made of earth and soil grapples foes.
> Rope Trick (PHB): Extradimensional Space



Oops, already have Rope Trick. Here's what I have now: 

Arcane Turmoil (CM): Targeted Dispel Magic + lose 1 spell. 
Cloud of Knives (PHBII): 1d6+(1/3 lvls) dmg per round.
Earthen Grasp (SC): Arm made of earth and soil grapples foes.
Cloud of Bewilderment (SC): Nauseated in a 10 foot cube. 

I am also adding Wall of Smoke, a 1st level spell, to my spellbook. Kerlan is also open to sharing spells with anyone. The magic Items that I have chosen are: 

Headband of Intellect* +2, 2k gp 
Artificer's Monocle*, 750 gp (Detect Magic -> Identify) 
Arcanist's Gloves*, 250 gp (2/day +2 CL for 1st lvl spell)
Talisman of the Disk*, 250 gp (Create Tenser's floating disk, lasts 3 hrs)
Healing Belt, 750 gp (3 Charges/Day, Heals: 1 - 2d8, 2 - 3d8, 3 - 4d8)
Cure Light Wounds Eternal Wand, 820 gp (2/day Cure Light Wounds, 1d8+1)

It was very hard to narrow down my decision, magic has so many options. What about everyone else? Anyone need help?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Cure Light Wounds Eternal Wand, 820 gp (2/day Cure Light Wounds, 1d8+1)



I'm not immediately familiar with an "Eternal Wand."  That sounds like it has infinite charges.  Is that the case?  I've just looked all over several different srds and I can't find an item by that name.  I really want to read up on this item before I allow it in.  The price you give (820gp) is not that much more than a regular wand of a first level spell costs (750gp), so it doesn't seem like it should have infinite charges, even if you can only use it twice per day.  On the other hand, I'd like to read about it.  Who knows, I might be convinced once I read the description.....

I guess it must be in MIC?  If so, I'll read about it tonight, and get back to you (but I already pretty much allowed everything in MIC, didn't I, so I wouldn't worry much, assuming it's in there).


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> I'm not immediately familiar with an "Eternal Wand."  That sounds like it has infinite charges.  Is that the case? I guess it must be in MIC?



 Yes, you are correct on all counts. It's in the MIC, has infinite charges, and can only be used 2 times per day. Eternal wands can be made with up to 3rd level Arcane spells but are always the minimum caster level. I used the Bard's Cure Light Wounds. That's the only way a Wizard can use it, the spells have to be Arcane. It's basically for emergency healing. Any other questions?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Any other questions?



Just a comment:  _ARCANE CURE SPELLS ARE SOOOOO COOOOOOL!!_
(yay, Bards!)

Are there any known plans to get MIC on at least one of the current plethora of SRDs?


----------



## Leif

Ok, I read about eternal wands.  Yep, they're permitted -- EXACTLY AS WRITTEN IN MIC.  That means that CL can never be higher than the minimum necessary to cast the spell.  Boy, is THAT ever a bummer, eh?  I expect that a couple of consecutive days of bad rolls with your eternal wand of cure light, and you'll be ready to trade it in for a wand of Cure Serious.  But, for now, it looks pretty cool.


----------



## Scott DeWar

]OOC[ : in the recent past i have had trouble with the invisible castle sight...i have tried a number to attempts to fix my setting and nothing worked...however!...i don't have a clue why, but it is working just fine now...so i wont need anyone to roll on IC for me! ]/OOC[


and sorry about seeming like i am not here...worked more then 15 hours per week for the last two weeks for the first time in a year!

also: i see you guys are taking 4 spells...do we get 1 plus int mod?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> sorry about seeming like i am not here...worked more then 15 hours per week for the last two weeks for the first time in a year!



Wow, 15 hours a week, don't work yourself too hard.    I myself am unemployed and looking for a new job. 







			
				Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> also: i see you guys are taking 4 spells...do we get 1 plus int mod?



Normally you get 2 new spells each time you gain a level. Our bonus Collegiate Wizard feat, however, raises it to 4 spells. 

What about everyone else? What spells are you picking? How are you spending your cash? 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Leif

Glad to hear that IC is working for you now, S.DeWar!  And Kerlan already answered your question about spells, so my work here is through!  (For the moment...)  

Oh, one more thing, (and since I always have trouble finding it) the Collegiate Wizard feat is in the sidebar on page 181 of Complete Arcane.


----------



## KerlanRayne

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> What about everyone else? What spells are you picking? How are you spending your cash?



Hello? Anyone there?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Hello? Anyone there?



That's what I was wondering, too.
*sigh*


----------



## Scotley

Sorry, been traveling and then had a very busy weekend. Should be back up to speed tonight.


----------



## Leif

What's Scotley got to be sorry about?  No, I'm the one who's sorry.  I gotta tell you guys, I had the best of intentions when I started this game, but it's just not coming together for me.  It never fully mentally gelled for me, so I think it might be best to just call this quits.  Hopefully, some additional time will help the idea to set up properly and then I can try this again.  Of course, finding players who are willing to take another chance on me might be a problem, but I can't be worrying about that now.

Again, sorry guys!


----------



## KerlanRayne

It's over? :sigh: Oh well. If you ever start it back up, let me know, maybe on IM. I got your IM a long time ago but I guess you don't get on there much either.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> It's over? :sigh: Oh well. If you ever start it back up, let me know, maybe on IM. I got your IM a long time ago but I guess you don't get on there much either.



I admit, it's been awhile.  But I check my email (leif_hamman@yahoo.com) faithfullly every day.  So let me know your email, and I'll give you a buzz.  I'll probably be starting something not too different in the future, but this time, I'll develop the idea more before my typing fingers get away from me.  Sorry about this, again.  You've been the most interested, most dedicated player involved in this failed experiment, so, from the bottom of my heart, 
THANK YOU!


----------



## KerlanRayne

I have a Yahoo ID as well. I pretty much use KerlanRayne everywhere, so just send me an email there.


----------



## Scotley

Wow, you know I'll be there when you get ready to run again. Bummer. I really enjoyed playing Tylara.


----------



## J. Alexander

*Thread Ending*

Leif
Sorry i was remiss in getting Gregory updated..always meant to do it the next day and things just keep getting in the way of all the threads i am invovled with.....let me know when you restart........


----------



## Scott DeWar

wow...i finall have over 25 hours a week and miss a few days of posting and all the primes fall to the eternal abyss...bummer.

let me know when you restart. i believe you have my e-mal addie?


----------



## Leif

Let's see if this idea floats, or if it's just a floater, hehe.

The idea has recently occurred to me to try this game again with my new and improved wisdom score.  Is there still any interest among the players for this?


----------



## Scotley

I'm really glad to see you bringing this game back. Unfortunately, I'm overwhelmed right now by job duties  as well as family responsibilities and having trouble keeping up with my current games. I am even at the point of considering resigning from several games so that I can at least keep up with my DMing responsibilities. As I'm sure you've noticed I've been somewhat neglectful in that area of late. This is the first time in nearly four years of online gaming that I've had to withdraw characters from games due to lack of time to adequately participate. 

I would love to have you keep Tylara as an alternate who could rejoin when my life settles down some. You could send her on extended post-doc work or something. I really like this character and always enjoy your games. 

I suggest you contact the players via email where possible as they may no longer be following this thread.


----------



## Voda Vosa

I lost interest in this game, sorry. A great idea though.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Let's see if this idea floats, or if it's just a floater, hehe.
> 
> The idea has recently occurred to me to try this game again with my new and improved wisdom score.  Is there still any interest among the players for this?




[sblock=will save to survive reading this]

me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 
me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! 

i think you get the picture now

[/sblock]


----------



## Scott DeWar

Ps: i bumped the in character thread so as to make it easier to find


----------



## Leif

Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> I lost interest in this game, sorry. A great idea though.



Guess I can't blame you, VV, and I wouldn't even if I could!


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> [sblock=will save to survive reading this]
> 
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me! me!
> 
> i think you get the picture now
> 
> [/sblock]



So, does that mean that you're interested, or what?


----------



## J. Alexander

*Restart*

Count me in....i may tweak Malfoy a little by adding one level of cleric............with a necormatic bent..if that is acceptable.......to reflect his familes history and association with undead.........when are you looking at starting again..i should be able to get everthing done by next friday.


----------



## Leif

J. Alexander said:
			
		

> Count me in....i may tweak Malfoy a little by adding one level of cleric............with a necormatic bent..if that is acceptable.......to reflect his familes history and association with undead.........when are you looking at starting again..i should be able to get everthing done by next friday.



Yes, of course!  Tweak away!  Sounds like great fun, to tell you the truth.

I really hadn't got far enough to think of a tentative starting date, but next Friday sounds okay to me.  Shall we say, then, Friday, May 2, 2008? (If my mental calendar calculations are correct, that is...)


----------



## Scott DeWar

may second is a friday, but just to let you know, i have a doctor's appt on that day that includes a fast...and diabetes and fasts do not mix well. they mix like alcahol and driving : try all you want, still not a good idea.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> may second is a friday, but just to let you know, i have a doctor's appt on that day that includes a fast...and diabetes and fasts do not mix well. they mix like alcahol and driving : try all you want, still not a good idea.



Okay, so would Saturday, May 3rd work better?  (I guess it would have to be at least a bit better.)  If so, then that's what we'll shoot for.  That gives me 8 days to figure out what's going on....


----------



## Leif

The New, Improved Rogues Gallery is here:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=4186340#post4186340

The New, Improved IC thread is here:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=4185898#post4185898

We'll keep using this same OOC thread, I guess.

There are character creation guidelines in the first post of the new rogues gallery, and in this post.  Previously rolled characters will not be used.  Use the same name and personality if you want, but I was far too generous with stats last time, so we gots to tone it down to a 32 point buy.  Standard starting cash, but no magic item costing over 2,500 gp.  Permissible sources for initial character goodies:  dmg, ph, phII, complete arcane, complete mage, spell compendium.  No Magic Item Compendium items at the start.  If the book isn't on the list I just gave, then it's not allowed.  Prestige classes are permissible, if you can meet the requirements at or before 4th level.

Hopefully, I covered everything, either here, or in the first post of the new RG.  If it's not answered here, look there first, then ask me.


----------



## Leif

renau1g, your interest is much appreciated!  Submit a character using the guidelines posted in the OOC and RG threads,  We've always got room for ONE more (and, anyway, like I said, we've had some casualties, too).  Although, I must admit that I was probably overly ambitious last time regarding party size, so we might have more luck with a smaller group.  As cool as it sounds to split into two groups, I know beyond a glimmer of a shadow that there is no way I can pull that one off!


----------



## Leif

renau1g, when you submit a character, please just edit the post that you already made to the RG, instead of making another post, ok?  This is now impossible, because that RG was in the wrong forum, so a new one has been opened.


----------



## renau1g

Will do. Quick Question. Which books are allowed?


----------



## Leif

Okay.  That question has already been answered in a post made today, in this very thread, even (#288).  Also, the earlier RG was in the wrong forum by my mistake.  A new RG has been opened in the Plots and Places forum, and all pcs should be placed in that one, the CORRECT RG, found here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=224704

new IC thread is here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=224681

The setting for Whirtlestaffs is now Sword & Sorcery's *Termana*, a more specific location is yet to be determined.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Okay, so would Saturday, May 3rd work better?  (I guess it would have to be at least a bit better.)  If so, then that's what we'll shoot for.  That gives me 8 days to figure out what's going on....



may 3rd is fine with me!

so i now start making a new capizzio....



			
				Leif said:
			
		

> Okay.  ...editied ...
> The setting for Whirtlestaffs is now Sword & Sorcery's *Termana*, a more specific location is yet to be determined.




wait, sword and sorcery? what is that? is that still 3.5 / d20?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> may 3rd is fine with me!
> so i now start making a new capizzio....
> wait, sword and sorcery? what is that? is that still 3.5 / d20?



Yes, still 3.5 DnD.  The specific setting on the continent of Termana is tentatively going to be Kasiavael (The Skysight Realm), which has a population of 100,000 (72% elf, 15% human, 5% half-elf, 8% other races).  I've adjusted the racial make-up of the population to suit myself, which meant just reducing the elf pop by 8% and adding the "other" category.  I was hoping to find some maps online, but had no luck with that, so I guess I'll have to do some scanning sometime.  Kasiavael is ruled by an oligarchy (rulers are the Council of High Magi) of powerful elf wizards.  Whirtlestaffs is still mostly run by humans, but they are on very good terms with the authorities in Kasiavael.  One or more Council members may actually prove to be alumni/ae of Whirtlestaffs.....

Ok as to the starting potions/scrolls for pcs.  That was done originally to provide a soucs of healing to the cleric-poor pcs.  But now, other class levels have been permitted, so presumably the party could include one or more characters with cleric/bard levels, so the healing thing is not really necessary any longer.  The upshot of that is that potions and scrolls are now to be treated as all other magic items during the character creation process.  This may make some significant changes to Capizzio and the others.


----------



## Scott DeWar

is that 15% human and 5% half-elf?


----------



## Leif

Yes, it was supposed to be that way.  It is that way now.  Thanks.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

What's the method for HP generation?  Max at first?  How 'bout after that?

Also, what's the policy on delaying taking feats?  I'm thinking of waiting to take my first feat until Manny gets a +1 BAB but I don't know if there's an official D&D rule about that.  (I e-mailed you this one but then thought the others might have similar desires).


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:
			
		

> What's the method for HP generation?  Max at first?  How 'bout after that?
> Also, what's the policy on delaying taking feats?  I'm thinking of waiting to take my first feat until Manny gets a +1 BAB but I don't know if there's an official D&D rule about that.  (I e-mailed you this one but then thought the others might have similar desires).



Yes, max hp at first level.  Then, let's say 75% of max for succeeding levels, so d4 will get 3 per level, d6 will get 4 per level, d8 will get 6 per level, d10 will get 7 going up to odd numbered class levels and 8 going up to even numbered class levels, and d12 will get 9 per level.

Delaying taking feats?  Nope.  You either select a new feat at the new level when it is accrued, or you forfeit said feat.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:
			
		

> Delaying taking feats?  Nope.  You either select a new feat at the new level when it is accrued, or you forfeit said feat.




So noted!


----------



## Leif

Leif said:
			
		

> Yes, max hp at first level.  Then, let's say 75% of max for succeeding levels, so d4 will get 3/level, d6 will get 4 per level, d8 will get 6 per level, d10 will get 7 going up to odd numbered class levels and 8 going up to even numbered class levels, and d12 will get 9 per level.
> 
> Delaying taking feats?  Nope.  You either select a new feat at the new level when it is accrued, or you forfeit said feat.



Please note once again that you're very first level does not now have to be in the Wizard class.  The requirement is that the LAST level you earned before the game starts must be as a wizard.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Yes, it was supposed to be that way.  It is that way now.  Thanks.




not a problem. glad to be your *HUMBLE* servent. ( pay no attention to any heclkers that may contridict me in reguards to may humility!)

well i am working out capizzio on paper first, then i will make corrections in the rg thrread.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Glad to see the place holder for Tylara - I was afraid she wouldn't be returning!  So we're up to four submissions, counting Gregory?


----------



## Leif

That should be a more manageable party-size for me.    I have not been to outspoken oln EnWorld about the re-start, haven't listed it on the "master list" for recruitment, but I think it'll be ok.  We've had another past "Whirtlestaffer" return, Kerlan Rayne, and I have listed us amongst the new games now.

Oh, one more thing, while I'm thinking about it, Scott DeWar, my intention was for characters now to have standard numbers of starting spells, magic items, and gold for the stating level.  You can, of course, purchase scrolls and things with your starting gold, but your list and Mowgli's list both appear to have an inordinate number of scrolls, and I think that is a holdover from the last Whirtlestaff's non-starter game.  Please revise your character sheets accordingly.   Apparently this was wrong, too.   Gosh, those scrolls are CHEAP at book price!


----------



## KerlanRayne

What about me? Is there still room? I just happened to stumble across this today. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> What about me? Is there still room? I just happened to stumble across this today. KerlanRayne



Sure!  Just note the changes to character creation, and alter Kerlan accordingly.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:
			
		

> You can, of course, purchase scrolls and things with your starting gold, but your list and Mowgli's list both appear to have an inordinate number of scrolls, and I think that is a holdover from the last Whirtlestaff's non-starter game.  Please revise your character sheets accordingly.




Manny is actually a completely new character, but it's entirely possible I misread the cost of scrolls.  It looks like most of the first level scrolls are listed in DMG at 25 GP/scroll (Market Price), and I spent 'round about 500 GP (525) on them so that should be about right.


----------



## Leif

Ho-kay, my bad!!  I was just thinking that based on the sheer number of scrolls in his possession that something funny must be going on.  Never mind!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Yeah, it was a little startling to me, too.


----------



## Leif

*But Wait...*

Ok, Scott DeWar, but alll those spells you have listed are not scrolls, they're in your spellbooik!  I can't figure out how you got that many in your spellbook, considering that the ruling is standard spells at start, no trading before the game begins, and no learning spells from scrolls until you can make the rolls for it IC after the game begins.    What say you?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> Sure!  Just note the changes to character creation, and alter Kerlan accordingly.



So, is everything changed from the last game? No more free feats like Collegiate Wizard? What about crafting XP? 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Scotley

Mowgli said:
			
		

> Glad to see the place holder for Tylara - I was afraid she wouldn't be returning!  So we're up to four submissions, counting Gregory?




Yeah, I have no willpower.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> So, is everything changed from the last game? No more free feats like Collegiate Wizard? What about crafting XP?
> KerlanRayne



Good question!  I hadn't even thought about that.  Ok, everyone still has Collegiate Wizard as a free feat, but other feats will be handled as per ph.  Which means that everyone now has summon familiar instead of craft wand/whatever.

No excess xp for crafting at the start.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Thank you, kind sir!  Manny's character sheet has been adjusted accordingly!


----------



## Leif

I have just been corrected in another thread about Summon Familiar.  It is NOT a feat, but just a regular class feature for Wizards and Sorcerers.  Hmmm, still not really sure that I totally grok the exact difference there, but, whatever.  Anyway, the way that I hope this game shapes up will be that we have a much broader range of capabilities in the party, thanks to multiclassing, and that will make the party more self-sufficient and capable of handling a wider variety of really sneaky, devious challenges.  hehehe.  Kudos to Mowgli on figuring out a way around my new, more restrictive spellbook ruling, namely, buying lots of scrolls.  Since I'm giving you the Collegiate Wizard feat as a free bonus feat, just a little bit of judicious allocation of skill points plus that feat should give you almost a lock on making the Spellcraft rolls to learn spells from scrolls.  But that will need to be done once the game starts, of course, and links provided to invisible castle to substantiate your success on the rolls.  I'm thinking now of starting out by running a published adventure.  I have one that is supposed to take a party from 4th level all the way to 8th or 9th level, and that sounds just like what we need.  The only thing is that I'm not sure I can become familiar enough with it by Saturday to run it.  Hopefully, I'll be enough so to at least make a start, and, also hopefully, most of you will have other stuff to take care of around the academy for at least a little while.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:
			
		

> Hmmm, still not really sure that I totally *grok* the exact difference there, but, whatever.




Ten 'Brownie' points to you for using the word _grok_ correctly in a sentence.  Of course, humans (raised on Earth, at least) are incapable of _groking_, so we won't hold it against you that you fall a little short.   

(I'm not sure there is a difference, other than if it were a feat it would be available to more classes - such as any class capable of casting arcane spells, etc.)


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:
			
		

> Ten 'Brownie' points to you for using the word _grok_ correctly in a sentence.  Of course, humans (raised on Earth, at least) are incapable of _groking_, so we won't hold it against you that you fall a little short.
> 
> (I'm not sure there is a difference, other than if it were a feat it would be available to more classes - such as any class capable of casting arcane spells, etc.)



That must be it, thanks!  Hmm, Brownie Points from a brownie....  There's something a WEE bit odd about that, I think.


----------



## Scotley

Given the pacing of play by post games I really don't think it will be necessary to fully grok a published adventure to get it started. You'll have plenty of time for that later as long as you understand enough to get the players hooked and so that you don't give our any false or inside information.


----------



## Leif

That's what I'm going for.  I'm not trying to memorize the thing, but it is a very involved adventure that has lots of npcs in a town setting, so any of them may interact with the pcs at any time, so I need to at least have a working knowledge of them all, and how they relate to each other.  I made progress last night, but I wasn't able to do as much as I hoped.  I got conned into making an appt with a chiropractor for this evening, but I'm thinking now that I might just call and cancel it.  Flippin' witch doctors! -- It's officially canceled now.


----------



## Leif

Okay, I don't feel so bad now.  We only have 3 characters in the RG, and two of them are labeled as "works in progress."  Looks like our "house elf," or Brownie, is the only one who is ready, and that includes me.  I notice that no one so far has chosen to take advantage of levels in another class, too.  By that ruling, I was hoping to attract some melee class levels, at least a couple, and maybe a level here and there of cleric or bard to provide a little bit of healing.  Tell you what let's do:  let's postpone the start for a week, and I'll try to round up a little more interest in the recruiting thread........


----------



## Leif

*Fixed Hit Points*

Take note that we'll be using the fixed hp rule on p. 199 DMG.  Make the approporiate adjusments to your characters, please.  Also standard money and magic for 4th level.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Still max HP at first level, according to the 'Creating Characters Above 1st Level guidelines on pg. 199?

Also, while Manny didn't take a melee type (and with his strength he's _definitely_ not a fighter type) he did take advantage of the opportunity for a second class so he's marginally better off than a Wizard in a fight.


----------



## Scotley

The rule on p. 199 is not normally interpreted to supersede the max. at first level hit point rule from the ph.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:
			
		

> 1. Still max HP at first level, according to the 'Creating Characters Above 1st Level guidelines on pg. 199?
> 
> 2. Also, while Manny didn't take a melee type (and with his strength he's _definitely_ not a fighter type) he did take advantage of the opportunity for a second class so he's marginally better off than a Wizard in a fight.



1.  OF COURSE, Silly Goose!  What a question!
2.  Well, then, I guess that's *MARGINALLY* ok.....


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> The rule on p. 199 is not normally interpreted to supersede the max. at first level hit point rule from the ph.



Whoever accused ME of being nomal, though?   It's just a happy coincidence that this is also true in my game. (j/k, for all you enWorlders who don't know me!  I try to stay faithful to the rules in almost every particular, but I also say lots of silly things that strike me as funny at the moment.)


----------



## Scott DeWar

hi, i am sorry for the lack of posting. my computer is on the fritz. it won't let me open a window and find a sight. i get the "could not find sight" error. 

yes i am on right now, but i am using a friend's computer to do so, just in case there might be a smart alek out there. I am trying to get caught up at this time. please be patient as this is the most %##@!@$! frustrating thing my computer has ever done to me. i also apologize for the fact that Capizzio is not ready to post.

David


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Whoever accused ME of being nomal, though?   It's just a happy coincidence that this is also true in my game. (j/k, for all you enWorlders who don't know me!  I try to stay faithful to the rules in almost every particular, but I also say lots of silly things that strike me as funny at the moment.)




by the way, i would never accuse any of us of being normal




			
				leif said:
			
		

> But Wait...
> Ok, Scott DeWar, but alll those spells you have listed are not scrolls, they're in your spellbooik! I can't figure out how you got that many in your spellbook, considering that the ruling is standard spells at start, no trading before the game begins, and no learning spells from scrolls until you can make the rolls for it IC after the game begins. What say you?




see two post up. sorry. i have been trying to get my computer working this whole past week. i will be working on it today.


----------



## Leif

No sweat, David.  We're not going to be ready to start for almost a week.  I hope you have your problem resolved by then, but, if not, we'll work around it.


----------



## KerlanRayne

I was going to go with a Focused Specialist Conjurer, but I saw that Tylara was also a conjurer and was worried about overlap. What kind of focus will she have, summons? For that matter, what about everyone else? What kind of roles or focus does everyone plan to fill? 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> I was going to go with a Focused Specialist Conjurer, but I saw that Tylara was also a conjurer and was worried about overlap. What kind of focus will she have, summons? For that matter, what about everyone else? What kind of roles or focus does everyone plan to fill?
> KerlanRayne



Excellent questions Kerlan!  Come to think of it, I'd like to know that answer, too!  And don't worry too much about having more than one conjurer in the group.  There are many ways the Conjurers can differentiate themselves from each other, such as monsters customarily summoned, and just general spell selection.  Not all conjurations even have to do with summoning creatures!  (Isn't _Mage Armor_ a conjuration?)

And Kerlan, please put Kerlan in the new rogues gallery here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=224704, thanks.


----------



## Leif

So as near as I can tell, we have five people who are still interested:  J. Alexander, Scotley, Mowgli, Scott Dewar, and Kerlan Rayne.  We also heard briefly from renau1g, maybe he'll submit a character later this week.  All in all, that's a much more manageable party size, but I'd still like to see some of you take a few levels in other classes to boost the combat survivability of the party.  Still, if you guys are happy where you are, then I'm happy, too.  Actually, I haven't looked that closely at the RG yet, so you may have all added levels of Barbarian and I wouldn't even realize it yet!  My bad!

Scott Dewar:  Check Capizzio's hit points.  Looks to me like you only have 3 hit dice when you should have four.  Maybe I'm just blind?  Also we're using fixed hp for this game, see this post for details:  http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4202164&postcount=320.


----------



## Leif

Scotley:  I can't find what sort of animal Tylara's familiar is, but judging from the fact that it has "talons" I'm guessing it's a bird of some kind.  Please write down the species somewhere near the top of the familiar sblock for your poor, old dm?


----------



## renau1g

Sorry for the delay Leif, I'll put something together either today or tomorrow. I've been thinking about a good concept for this. I might try an elven fighter/wizard-> Arcane Archer ; Halfling rogue/wizard -> Arcane Trickster; or human cleric/wizard -> Mystic Theurge... I'll take a look at the RG to see what might best help.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:
			
		

> Sorry for the delay Leif, I'll put something together either today or tomorrow. I've been thinking about a good concept for this. I might try an elven fighter/wizard-> Arcane Archer ; Halfling rogue/wizard -> Arcane Trickster; or human cleric/wizard -> Mystic Theurge... I'll take a look at the RG to see what might best help.



All three of those sound good!  (Although, actually, come to think of it, the Arcane Trickster would probably cover some of the same ground as our Brownie Wizard, played by Mowgli.  But I'm sure there'll be roon enough for both of you at our feasting table, so if that's what you want to play, by all means, go for it!)  There's been no delay to apologize for, we won't be starting until sometime this Saturday, probably in the afternoon or evening, cdt.  I just never heard from you again after my snippy remark, so I was afraid that I had totally run you off!  I'm still expecting a couple more additions to the RG, from J. Alexander and Kerlan Rayne.  You'll be the sixth party-member, so that's gonna about get us all full-up!


----------



## renau1g

No worries, you didn't scare me off, I found it quite funny actually. It must be my sense of humour. .  I just wanted to bounce some ideas around in m head.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:
			
		

> No worries, you didn't scare me off, I found it quite funny actually. It must be my sense of humour. .  I just wanted to bounce some ideas around in m head.



Ahhhh, Most excellent indeed, Grasshopper!  You will go far in my games if you approach almost every post I make with a healthy dose of your sense of humor!


----------



## renau1g

Name: Xavier Zalev
Race: Human
Class: Enchanter 3/ Master Specialist 1
AL: CG

Hmmm... so I went in another direction entirely. None of the ideas I was thinking of. I was thinking Illusion & Evocation as my prohibited schools. I'll flesh it out probably tomorrow.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Roll: role: i still want the do an arciologist type, so i am running a rogue/wizard (generalist)


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'm pretty sure I'll be running Manny as posted in the RG - Brownie Rogue/Transmuter.  I don't really have any pre-conceived notions as to a party role - pretty much anything suggested by his class and size (he's only 15" tall).  If anyone sees anything I missed please let me know!  I was fairly general with his back story - I prefer to leave some room for fleshing out as the story progresses - so if anyone wants to tie in it's fine with me (just check it out with Leif, I suppose!).


----------



## Leif

Renau1g -  Looks good so far!  Feel free to go ahead and start a post in the RG, and finish his entry there as you get to it.

Scott DeWar - the archaeologist angle is very cool, and will potentially tie-in quite nicely with the first adventure.

Mowgli - I just have a couple of questions:  How much experience of the world outside of the Whirtlestaffs grounds does Manny have?  Was he born at Whirtlestaffs, or did his family move into the walls, attic, and basement during his childhood?  Has he ever been to a town or settlement of "Big Folk"?  How will he present himself to the Big Folk out in the wide world?  As a capable man of small stature, or as an object of curiosity that all the ladies fawn over?  Or somewhere in between, maybe, depending upon the usefulness of the fawning?

All - I'm not really expecting any more additions to the group, but I guess we'll think about accepting one or two more, if they present themselves.  I'm pretty happy with the grop as it is now.   So far, as I recall, we have:  Scotley, J. Alexander, Mowgli, Renau1g, Scott DeWar, and Kerlan Rayne.  I apologize if I am forgetting someone!  (As my dad says, "Getting old ain't for sissies!")


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:
			
		

> Mowgli - I just have a couple of questions:  How much experience of the world outside of the Whirtlestaffs grounds does Manny have?  Was he born at Whirtlestaffs, or did his family move into the walls, attic, and basement during his childhood?  Has he ever been to a town or settlement of "Big Folk"?  How will he present himself to the Big Folk out in the wide world?  As a capable man of small stature, or as an object of curiosity that all the ladies fawn over?  Or somewhere in between, maybe, depending upon the usefulness of the fawning?
> 
> All - I'm not really expecting any more additions to the group, but I guess we'll think about accepting one or two more, if they present themselves.  I'm pretty happy with the grop as it is now.   So far, as I recall, we have:  Scotley, J. Alexander, Mowgli, Renau1g, Scott DeWar, and Kerlan Rayne.  I apologize if I am forgetting someone!  (As my dad says, "Getting old ain't for sissies!")




Given that the folks at Whirtlestaff's have probably been familiar with Brownies and their 'requirements' not to be noticed by the folks they help, it's likely they've managed to keep the family around for awhile.  I took the liberty in his back story of stating that his family have been with Whirtlestaff's since its founding.  However, Manny is 250 years old and very adventuresome for a Brownie, so I figure he's been outside Whirtlestaff's fairly regularly - for supplies, for adventure, to deliver messages to other Brownie families, AA or NA meetings   , or just a break from the tedium of the family work.  I read Brownies as having a preference for one place, but not as being tied to it.  Also, I think they prefer not to be recognized for doing their good work but that doesn't necessarily mean they are shy.  I'm rambling a little, I know . . .  

Personality wise, Manny is not shy at all, and doesn't mind being noticed by the big folk - his family's discomfort with this is a big part of the reason he 'came out' into the open and enrolled in the Academy formally.  He considers himself very capable, and actually looks at his stature as being an advantage in most situations.  He'll flirt with women of any stature, but has no real attraction to those not of his approximate size.  However, he probably retains at least a portion of his cultural discomfort with being recognized for doing 'good deeds.'

As to the size of the group - whatever you feel comfortable with is cool with me.  I tend to prefer small groups, but I'm up for most anything!


----------



## Leif

I just heard from a guy who says he's getting back into DnD after a 30-year hiatus who wants to play.  Look at the new posts in the Recruiting thread, and you'll know as much as I do.  I told him we were pretty much full, but...... well, you can read that for yourself, too.  I dunno what to do!  I'm having as much trouble as Scotley saying "no" to people!  Aaaaauugggghhhh!


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Scotley:  I can't find what sort of animal Tylara's familiar is, but judging from the fact that it has "talons" I'm guessing it's a bird of some kind.  Please write down the species somewhere near the top of the familiar sblock for your poor, old dm?




An owl. I'll get that revised. I'm considering our healer void. I might take a level of druid.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> An owl. I'll get that revised. I'm considering our healer void. I might take a level of druid.



That would be a great idea.  And it would go so well with your Brew Potion wizard feat, too.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Mowgli said:
			
		

> I took the liberty in his back story of stating that his family have been with Whirtlestaff's since its founding.  However, Manny is 250 years old and very adventuresome for a Brownie, so I figure he's been outside Whirtlestaff's fairly regularly - for supplies, for adventure, to deliver messages to other Brownie families, AA or NA meetings   ,
> 
> As to the size of the group - whatever you feel comfortable with is cool with me.  I tend to prefer small groups, but I'm up for most anything!





AA= Adventurers Anonamous?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> AA= Adventurers Anonamous?



lmao

I guess NA is Nagas Anonymous, then


----------



## Scott DeWar

*Dr. Jones:* "Nagas, why does there have to be nagas?"

*Saul* "ooo, Nagas! very deadly ... you go first Dr. Jones"


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> That would be a great idea.  And it would go so well with your Brew Potion wizard feat, too.



What Brew Potion feat? I don't see it on her sheet and we don't get it as a bonus feat anymore, do we? 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Scotley

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> I was going to go with a Focused Specialist Conjurer, but I saw that Tylara was also a conjurer and was worried about overlap. What kind of focus will she have, summons? For that matter, what about everyone else? What kind of roles or focus does everyone plan to fill?
> 
> KerlanRayne




Hey, sorry for the long delay in responding. By all means go with a Conjurer. We can do a little trading and have a nice selection of Conjurations between us. Tylara will definately do some summoning, but I think the focus will be on ranged combat. She'll eshew illusion and necromancy. I'm going to make her first level druid to give the party some healing and broaden her abilities a little.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> What Brew Potion feat? I don't see it on her sheet and we don't get it as a bonus feat anymore, do we?
> KerlanRayne



Well, sunuvagun, you're right!  My bad.  The only bonus feat everyone gets is _Collegiate Wizard_ from a sidebar in Complete Arcane (I think, maybe C. Mage?).  Uhhh, I just meant IF Tylara chooses to spend a feat on Brew Potion, yeah, that's the ticket!


----------



## Leif

I haven't had a double post in MONTHS!  I thought I had beaten the curse, but alas...


----------



## renau1g

Curse you EnWorld and your slowness *Fist-Shaking*


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Well, sunuvagun, you're right!  My bad.  The only bonus feat everyone gets is _Collegiate Wizard_ from a sidebar in Complete Arcane (I think, maybe C. Mage?).  Uhhh, I just meant IF Tylara chooses to spend a feat on Brew Potion, yeah, that's the ticket!




Drat! I thought we were gonna get another free feat. Of course we could really use a few extra experience points to make it useful. Since you aren't giving us Brew Potion maybe you could let us have say 20 or 30 exp. to scribe a few scrolls? As wizards we do all have scribe scroll after all...


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Drat! I thought we were gonna get another free feat. Of course we could really use a few extra experience points to make it useful. Since you aren't giving us Brew Potion maybe you could let us have say 20 or 30 exp. to scribe a few scrolls? As wizards we do all have scribe scroll after all...



NOPE!!  If you want scrolls, you gotta use your starting gold to buy them just like every other character who starts out at 4th level.  The starting gold for characters above 1st level takes all that brewing and scribing and crafting into account, I beleve.  Even if it doesn't we're going to pretend that it does.  You'll have plenty of chances to squander your xp on scroll-scribing once the game starts. 

Incidentally, Mowgli did exactly this for Manny, and he has quite an impressive array of scrolls that he bought according to the standard rules with no help from the DM at all.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> *Dr. Jones:* "Nagas, why does there have to be nagas?"
> 
> *Saul* "ooo, Nagas! very deadly ... you go first Dr. Jones"




Now _I'm_ lmao!  Good one!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:
			
		

> Incidentally, Mowgli did exactly this for Manny, and he has quite an impressive array of scrolls that he bought according to the stadard rules with no help from the DM at all.




It's a little known fact that the term 'Brownie' actually originated when the gods grew tired of the tiny creatures' attempts to curry favor and stained their noses to . . . OK, I'm reaching a little with that one - it seemed like it might go somewhere when I started it, though.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> Dr. Jones: "Nagas, why does there have to be nagas?"
> Saul "ooo, Nagas! very deadly ... you go first Dr. Jones"





			
				Mowgli said:
			
		

> Now _I'm_ lmao!  Good one!



I'm embarrassed to admit how long it took me to get that one, so I won't.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Mowgli said:
			
		

> Now _I'm_ lmao!  Good one!




would changeing the name of my character to Doctor Indiana Jones or short round be a bit over the top then?


----------



## Leif

Excellent!  Looks like our Rogue's Gallery is nicely full already.  The only addition that might be made, I think, is J. Alexander's Gregory Malfoy, but I haven't heard from him much lately, so he may be too busy to participate.  Tell, you what, we'll assume that he is with you but sick or something, and if he decides later to join in, he will miraculously recover.

I've managed to get myself ready a bit early, too, so the fist IC post may go up sometime tomorrow.  (No guarantees, though.)  Heh, it went up today.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> And Kerlan, please put Kerlan in the new rogues gallery here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=224704, thanks.



Done. I've put up what I have so far. This was close to my original idea for the first game, but I also have an idea for an abjurer specializing in dispels and counterspells. 
By the way Scott, I can't read your SBLOCKs because of a problem with Firefox. If you put an SBLOCK in between COLOR tags, they won't open. It works fine in IE though.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Done. I've put up what I have so far. This was close to my original idea for the first game, but I also have an idea for an abjurer specializing in dispels and counterspells.
> By the way Scott, I can't read your SBLOCKs because of a problem with Firefox. If you put an SBLOCK in between COLOR tags, they won't open. It works fine in IE though.



Yes, I noticed just this morning Kerlan's arrival in the RG. 

And I was wrong about the RG being full, too.  We've got one more late addition to the party who'll be arriving soon!


----------



## Leif

Kerlan, your hp don't look right to me.  Remember, we're using the fixed hit point rule, so you shouldn't have gained 4 for any of your wizard levels, since you wisely took your Beguiler level first.  Your hp should be 6+3+3+3+con(8)=23 

(You only get max hit points for your first CHARACTER level, no many how many classes you have.)


----------



## Leif

*Annnd We're Off!*

The First Post is up in the IC thread.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:
			
		

> Kerlan, your hp don't look right to me.  Remember, we're using the fixed hit point rule, so you shouldn't have gained 4 for any of your wizard levels, since you wisely took your Beguiler level first.  Your hp should be 6+3+3+3+con(8)=23
> 
> (You only get max hit points for your first CHARACTER level, no many how many classes you have.)



That was what I rolled for HP in the last game. I'll update it. 

Hey, just a few things I noticed. Most of the sheets are still in progress, as is mine, so this is just a friendly reminder. Feel free to ignore me. 

renau1g: A Hail of Stone scroll will cost more than 25 gp due to the expensive material component. 

Scotley: I know your post says it will change, but you have a lot more spells than you are supposed to. You haven't paid to scribe any yet and we haven't shared spells yet. Your BAB should only be +1. I'm not sure you can craft a masterwork bow with only +8 bonus. You can't reach the DC 20 while taking 10. If we can, then I'll craft some stuff too. Also we can't use MIC items yet. I wish we could though, there are some great cheap items in there. 

Mowgli: I'm guessing that the blue spells on your list are the scrolls and are not in your spellbook. What is the M column for? Some spells have a 1 there and others, nothing. Also, I see you have a Spell like ability for Continual Flame. Uhhh, free continual torches for everyone!!!! Maybe? 

Scott DeWar: You also have way too many spells. Also, your ability scores need to be 32 point buy now, which will change just about everything else. 


Leif: So we'll be paying full price for everything? No free scroll scribing or free spell swapping? What about the craft skill issue with Tylara? 

KerlanRayne


----------



## renau1g

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> renau1g: A Hail of Stone scroll will cost more than 25 gp due to the expensive material component.




Thanks! I'll deduct the 5gp for the material component (that is how it works right?)


----------



## Scotley

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Scotley: I know your post says it will change, but you have a lot more spells than you are supposed to. You haven't paid to scribe any yet and we haven't shared spells yet. Your BAB should only be +1. I'm not sure you can craft a masterwork bow with only +8 bonus. You can't reach the DC 20 while taking 10. If we can, then I'll craft some stuff too. Also we can't use MIC items yet. I wish we could though, there are some great cheap items in there.
> KerlanRayne




As noted in my post, gear, skills and spells are from a previous iteration of the character and will be changed. 

As for the BAB, Druid level one is .75 and Wizard level three is 1.5 for a total of 2.25.


----------



## renau1g

I've finished Xavier's BG & appearance  Finally!


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> That was what I rolled for HP in the last game. I'll update it.
> 
> Hey, just a few things I noticed. Most of the sheets are still in progress, as is mine, so this is just a friendly reminder. Feel free to ignore me.
> 
> renau1g: A Hail of Stone scroll will cost more than 25 gp due to the expensive material component.
> 
> Scotley: I know your post says it will change, but you have a lot more spells than you are supposed to. You haven't paid to scribe any yet and we haven't shared spells yet. Your BAB should only be +1. I'm not sure you can craft a masterwork bow with only +8 bonus. You can't reach the DC 20 while taking 10. If we can, then I'll craft some stuff too. Also we can't use MIC items yet. I wish we could though, there are some great cheap items in there.
> 
> Mowgli: I'm guessing that the blue spells on your list are the scrolls and are not in your spellbook. What is the M column for? Some spells have a 1 there and others, nothing. Also, I see you have a Spell like ability for Continual Flame. Uhhh, free continual torches for everyone!!!! Maybe?
> 
> Scott DeWar: You also have way too many spells. Also, your ability scores need to be 32 point buy now, which will change just about everything else.



Wow....Dang.....Our Very Own Little Character Cop?   



			
				KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Leif: So we'll be paying full price for everything? No free scroll scribing or free spell swapping? What about the craft skill issue with Tylara?
> KerlanRayne



Characters will pay full price for everything that they have at the start.  No free scroll scribing or spell swapping before the game starts.  You can swap to your heart's content once we start.  As long as you pay for the ink and other supplies.  Same goes for crafted items -- you must pay the full gp price if you want them at the start.  (So, obviously, if you have craft item feats, you migt be well-advised to wait until we start, and then do your crafting.  You might want to wait until you gain some xp, though.)  As to Mowgli's spell list, He already has my approval.  I believe the "M" column is for how many times he has MEMORIZED the spell.  Some of those (maybe the blue ones?) are scrolls that he paid book price for.  This is perfectly ok.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> As for the BAB, Druid level one is .75 and Wizard level three is 1.5 for a total of 2.25.



Not according to MY ph!  Druid1 1 is ZERO.  Wizard3 is +1.  Tylara's total BAB according to the ph, is +1.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Mowgli: I'm guessing that the blue spells on your list are the scrolls and are not in your spellbook. What is the M column for? Some spells have a 1 there and others, nothing. Also, I see you have a Spell like ability for Continual Flame. Uhhh, free continual torches for everyone!!!! Maybe?




Manny will be happy to provide torches, etc.  We can be a very well lit party!  However, he's limited to one of each of those abilities per day, so it will take a few days to get one for everyone.

The 'M' column is for how many of each particular spell he has memorized (or in the case of scrolls simply a notation that it is a scroll.  However, now that I think about it - since the fact that it's a scroll and not a memorized spell is indicated by the blue print, I may change that notation to indicate the number of scrolls of that spell.  Of course, once Manny learns those spells, I'll have to use a different system anyway to keep track of scrolls of spells he's already learned.  Or something like that . . . I'm so confused . . . what day is it . . .


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*Book Learnin' 101*

Leif (or anyone else who knows right off hand, I guess):

Can Manny use some of his time on the boat to start transcribing those spells and learning them?  I don't know the requirements as far as time, materials, etc. since I don't usually play wizards, but I think I recall something about special inks/materials . . .


----------



## Leif

Ok, we can do some of that.  Anyone who wants to can copy spells while the journey is in progress.  Given the cramped quarters, the motion of the ship, and similar things, you can only complete two days' worth of work, however.  Supplies will have been bought before you leave, so that's not a problem.  Just figure the usual cost and deduct that amount.  By going slowly and carefully, and limiting yourself to two days' of copying, you can roll the spellcraft checks with no penalty.  If you want to get in a full 5 days' worth of work, there will be a -3 circumstance modifier to all spellcraft checks, due to the motion of the ship, poor lighting, and the annoying musty smell.


----------



## renau1g

Do you wish us to RP the discussion with other wizards in order to exchange some spells?


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Not according to MY ph!  Druid1 1 is ZERO.  Wizard3 is +1.  Tylara's total BAB according to the ph, is +1.




So what you are saying is that even though Druids are better in combat overall, Tylara will be giving up a combat bonus for taking a druid level over a wizard level? As a 4th level Wizard she would have a +2. That sort of silliness went out of the game years ago. Fractional bonuses are the only logical way to proceed. Are you going to insist that Tylara's bab is only +1 with her current slate of levels?


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> That sort of silliness went out of the game years ago. Fractional bonuses are the only logical way to proceed. Are you going to insist that Tylara's bab is only +1 with her current slate of levels?



SHEESH, Scotley!  Who peed on your cheerios this morning?  (Wasn't me, I promise!)  While you may claim that it's "logical", I see no rule for the fractional bonuses.  Got one for me?  Under the present state of my understanding of the situation, if I did relent and let you keep the +2 BAB now, then when Tylara's BAB would next go up a point, you would have to forego that point at that time to get her back on track.  In other words, unless you can show me a reason with good rules support, my ruling stands, but I will allow you to gain a point of BAB early, providing that if you take it now, you can't take it again later (since it's the same point after all).  3.5 Druids are just not melee machines, especially at low levels.  If it's BAB you're after, a level of fighter or ranger would work much better, and also provide more hit points, and weapon and armor proficiencies.  This ruling is dependent upon my present understanding of the rules.  If you tell me about a rule that allows the fractional bonuses in circumstances like this, then that will change everything.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:
			
		

> Do you wish us to RP the discussion with other wizards in order to exchange some spells?



Yeah, I'd like to see the character interaction.  But I don't want to clutter the IC thread with that kind of "housekeeping" chore, so just RP it here in the OOC thread.  Yeah, that's not really OOC is it?  But can't we make this one exception??


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> SHEESH, Scotley!  Who peed on your cheerios this morning?  (Wasn't me, I promise!)  While you may claim that it's "logical", I see no rule for the fractional bonuses.  Got one for me?  Under the present state of my understanding of the situation, if I did relent and let you keep the +2 BAB now, then when Tylara's BAB would next go up a point, you would have to forego that point at that time to get her back on track.  In other words, unless you can show me a reason with good rules support, my ruling stands, but I will allow you to gain a point of BAB early, providing that if you take it now, you can't take it again later (since it's the same point after all).  3.5 Druids are just not melee machines, especially at low levels.  If it's BAB you're after, a level of fighter or ranger would work much better, and also provide more hit points, and weapon and armor proficiencies.  This ruling is dependent upon my present understanding of the rules.  If you tell me about a rule that allows the fractional bonuses in circumstances like this, then that will change everything.




I'm not trying to pull some lame munchkin superpower out of my ass here. If Tylara were a 4th level wizard her bab would be +2. I'm only suggesting that Tylara's base attack bonus not be lower than it would be had she taken 4 levels of wizard rather than 1 level of Druid and three levels of wizard. I am only asking that she have the logical progression of a wizard not some extra bonus. As a Druid actually has better numbers than a wizard it seemed ridiculas that taking a level in that class should result in a lower net bab. As for a rule, it can be found below. Please see the accompanying spreadsheet for a full break down. 

The following is taken from a sidebar in Unearthed Arcana (p. 73)

FRACTIONAL BASE BONUSES
The progressions of base attack bonuses and base save bonuses
in the Player’s Handbook increase at a fractional rate, but
those fractions are eliminated due to rounding. For single-class
characters, this rounding isn’t significant, but for multiclass characters,
this rounding often results in reduced base attack and
base save bonuses.
For example, a 1st-level rogue/1st-level wizard has a base
attack bonus (BAB) of +0 from each class, resulting in a total
BAB of +0. But that’s only due to the rounding of each fractional
value down to 0 before adding them together—the character
actually has BAB +3/4 from her rogue level and BAB +1/2 from
her wizard level. If the rounding was done after adding together
the fractional values, rather than before, the character would
have BAB +1 (rounded down from 1-1/4).
The table below presents fractional values for the base save
and base attack bonuses presented in Table 3–1 in the Player’s
Handbook. To determine the total base save bonus or base attack
bonus of a multiclass character, add together the fractional values
gained from each of her class levels.
For space purposes, the table does not deal with the multiple
attacks gained by characters with a base attack bonus of
+6 or greater. A second attack is gained when a character’s
total BAB reaches +6, a third at +11, and a fourth at +16, just
as normal.
This variant is ideal for campaigns featuring many multiclass
characters, since it results in their having slightly higher base
save and base attack bonuses than in a standard game.
For example, in a standard game, a 5th-level cleric/2nd-level
fighter would have base save bonuses of Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +4.
In this variant, the same character would have Fort +7 (rounded
down from +7-1/2), Ref +2 (rounded down from +2-1/3), and
Will +5 (rounded down from +5-1/6).
Another example: A standard 2nd-level rogue/9th-level wizard
would have a base attack bonus of +5, +1 from rogue and +4
from wizard. Using the fractional system, that character’s base
attack bonus would be +6, +1-1/2 from rogue and +4-1/2 from
wizard, enough to gain a second attack at a +1 bonus.
—Andy Collins


----------



## Leif

Problem with your table:  the Average BAB actually goes DOWN by .25 from first to second level!  (As near as I can tell, avg. BAB for 2nd level should be 1.25.  That glaring mistake calls into question the entire table, imho.)  Good thing we're already above 2nd level, huh?  What does everybody else say?  Want to do it this way?

OH, and one more thing -- if we use this table, ALL fractions will be dropped once the final total is achieved.  (No rounding up from, say, 1.75 to 2).

And, Scotley, you should have asked me about this before you just used it.  _Unearthed Arcana_ was not on the list of allowable sources.


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'd like to see the character interaction.  But I don't want to clutter the IC thread with that kind of "housekeeping" chore, so just RP it here in the OOC thread.  Yeah, that's not really OOC is it?  But can't we make this one exception??




My thoughts exactly, I didn't want to clutter the IC, but I didn't want to just say ok Scotley I'll just grab a couple of your characters spells.


----------



## Leif

*Another Change -- MAX HP*

Everyone needs to adjust his character --  New rule is that all pcs get MAX hp for all hit dice.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Problem with your table:  the Average BAB actually goes DOWN by .25 from first to second level!  (As near as I can tell, avg. BAB for 2nd level should be 1.225.  That glaring mistake calls into question the entire table, imho.)  Good thing we're already above 2nd level, huh?  What does everybody else say?  Want to do it this way?
> 
> OH, and one more thing -- if we use this table, ALL fractions will be dropped once the final total is achieved.  (No rounding up from, say, 1.75 to 2).
> 
> And, Scotley, you should have asked me about this before you just used it.  _Unearthed Arcana_ was not on the list of allowable sources.




Whoa, sorry, transfering the data into excel from the book was a mistake. Excel saw the numbers in the book 1-1/2 not as 1 and 1/2, but 1 minus 1/2 or .5. I'll have to fix the table to match the book. Should have checked it.

As to the rule, while it is in a 'non-core' book that particular usage has fallen into common practice and I didn't even consider what book it was originally found in as I calculated the numbers. Anyway, in future I shall exercise more care in securing permission for rules use.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly....



Great Minds, and all that


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Whoa, sorry, transfering the data into excel from the book was a mistake. Excel saw the numbers in the book 1-1/2 not as 1 and 1/2, but 1 minus 1/2 or .5. I'll have to fix the table to match the book. Should have checked it.
> As to the rule, while it is in a 'non-core' book that particular usage has fallen into common practice and I didn't even consider what book it was originally found in as I calculated the numbers. Anyway, in future I shall exercise more care in securing permission for rules use.



"Common usage?"  By whose standards?  This is the first I've ever heard of the rule.  I don't think you could have known about it for too awfully long, or else you would have told me about it before, right?  Damn, son, keeping secrets from your co-DM?  Shame on you.

Anyway, when you get the table fixed, email it to me, please?  I'll look for UA this evening after work, but I'm not entirely sure that I'll be able to find it.  I think I remember seeing it available at Books-A-Million the last time I was there.......<shrug>  I needed a reason to spend some money for DnD this week, anyway.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Everyone needs to adjust his character --  New rule is that all pcs get MAX hp for all hit dice.




Whoo Hoo! Thank you sir!

The fractional bonuses table above has now been corrected so that it matches the progression in the book. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly, I didn't want to clutter the IC, but I didn't want to just say ok Scotley I'll just grab a couple of your characters spells.




By all means Tylara will share, but don't start picking yet. That list she has now represents a post full party sharing in a previous running of the character. I plan to have the correct and sadly much shorter version of her spell book up tonight. I don't plan on changing the memorized spells, so they should all be in the new book if you want to give those a look-see.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Whoo Hoo! Thank you sir!
> 
> The fractional bonuses table above has now been corrected so that it matches the progression in the book. Sorry for the confusion.




Don't thank me yet, it just means that the monsters will do lots more damage! 

And I was downloading the table, thinking that I would need to change it once I did so, but by the time I dowloaded it, you had already made the correction.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Don't thank me yet, it just means that the monsters will do lots more damage!
> 
> And I was downloading the table, thinking that I would need to change it once I did so, but by the time I dowloaded it, you had already made the correction.




I hope not too many more. I only got like 5 extra Hit Points out of the deal!


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> I hope not too many more. I only got like 5 extra Hit Points out of the deal!



Heyy, something else that this change will affect:  Now, there's no reason to take your level of druid as First level, since ALL levels get max hp now.  But I guess it will affect skills some.  Don't druids get a few more points than wizards?  So you'd still be better off taking the druid level as 1st level for the increased skill points.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I've never heard of the fractional bonus table either, but I'm perfectly willing to give it a try if that suits our esteemed DM - it really doesn't make sense that taking a level in a class better suited to combat would penalize one's BAB . . . unless of course you were ruling that spreading your talents and practice across multiple classes in some instances caused you to be less effective in both.

Even so, I say bring on the fractions!


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:
			
		

> I've never heard of the fractional bonus table either, but I'm perfectly willing to give it a try if that suits our esteemed DM - it really doesn't make sense that taking a level in a class better suited to combat would penalize one's BAB . . . unless of course you were ruling that spreading your talents and practice across multiple classes in some instances caused you to be less effective in both.
> Even so, I say bring on the fractions!



Okay, that's two votes for the change, none against, and one neutral (me).

And NO, I'm not ruling in the way that you describe.  Characters are not Peanut Butter:  they can't be spread too thin in that way.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Heyy, something else that this change will affect:  Now, there's no reason to take your level of druid as First level, since ALL levels get max hp now.  But I guess it will affect skills some.  Don't druids get a few more points than wizards?  So you'd still be better off taking the druid level as 1st level for the increased skill points.




Yes, there is some benefit in skill points (8) for making Druid the first level. More importantly, I thought it would make the most logical sense in Tylara's history as you'll see when I get it re-written. It was harder to explain why she would leave her wizardly studies, go play in the wood for a while and come back to wizardry. I'm going to play off the Druid thing as more of a teen rebelion against the parents who are both wizards. In the end of course she was much more suited to Wizardry than nature worship, so she ended up at Whirtlestaffs.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Okay, that's two votes for the change, none against, and one neutral (me).
> 
> And NO, I'm not ruling in the way that you describe.  Characters are not Peanut Butter:  they can't be spread too thin in that way.





As a player i am all for the advantage of characters and getting a better bab, however, i as a dm see that as a possible messy bookeeping requirement. to maintain dm sanity i would vote against the extra bookeeping aspect and would vote against.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> As a player i am all for the advantage of characters and getting a better bab, however, i as a dm see that as a possible messy bookeeping requirement. to maintain dm sanity i would vote against the extra bookeeping aspect and would vote against.



Garsh.  I'm not sure if I should be flattered because my players want my life to be easier, or if I should be upset that my players think that my poor brain can't cope with one more little piece of information.   Really, the bookkeeping consideration is not really a concern.  But, unless you change your vote, that makes it
2 for
1 against
1 neutral (me)

3 votes yet to come


----------



## renau1g

I'm ok with it, I don't really understand the fractional BAB, but the druid is a more martial character than the wizard and Scotley's giving up some stuff on the Wizard side by not being level 4, so there should be a cookie for him . My 2 coppers.


----------



## Leif

Hark!  What's that sucking sound? hehehe
j/k


----------



## renau1g

I am in one of Scotley's games.... I need to stay on his good side


----------



## Scotley

I think it is safe to say that Fin is gonna find more treasure than Harrison.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> As a player i am all for the advantage of characters and getting a better bab, however, i as a dm see that as a possible messy bookeeping requirement. to maintain dm sanity i would vote against the extra bookeeping aspect and would vote against.



Huh? How often is our DM going to be calculating our BAB? Never? That book keeping is taken care of by the user as far as I know. All he needs to know is the total. If anyone is worried about cheating, we can show the breakdown on our sheets. I'm for it. 

KerlanRayne


----------



## Scott DeWar

good point...maybe a capitulation is in order right now.



			
				Scotley said:
			
		

> I think it is safe to say that Fin is gonna find more treasure than Harrison.




oh yeah, definitely a capitulation is needed!! ...place me in the "for" catagory!


----------



## Leif

The DM declares that Scotley's Motion Passes!  We will calculate BAB as Scotley suggests for multi-class characters. 

Just do me a favor, Scotely:  DON'T RUN FOR DM OF THIS THREAD, OK?


----------



## Scotley

Hey, my poll numbers are lookin' pretty good these days. I could be the Barak Obama of this thread...

Here's another question for you mr. dm. How do you feel about players buying partially charged wands at pro-rated prices? 

I ask because, while I am willing to serve as party healer, I'm not keen on blowing nearly a sixth of Tylara's starting gold on a wand of cure light wounds. I'd be willing to pay 375 for a wand with 25 charges and spend the another 375 on an arcane spell of some sort that was also half full.


----------



## renau1g

Personally, I don't think that you should have to bear the cost of party healer, once we start adventuring we could set aside a share to cover these costs.


----------



## Scotley

It would be great it we could raise the funds to buy a full wand at some point in the near future, but I do expect to benefit from the initial wand myself and I don't mind making the upfront investment in our healing, I'd just prefer not to pay the whole 750 if I could get a deal on a slightly used wand...


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Hey, my poll numbers are lookin' pretty good these days. I could be the Barak Obama of this thread...
> Here's another question for you mr. dm. How do you feel about players buying partially charged wands at pro-rated prices?
> I ask because, while I am willing to serve as party healer, I'm not keen on blowing nearly a sixth of Tylara's starting gold on a wand of cure light wounds. I'd be willing to pay 375 for a wand with 25 charges and spend the another 375 on an arcane spell of some sort that was also half full.



Don't you mean the HILLARY CLINTON of this thread?? 

Partially charged wands at pro-rated prices are almost allowed: here's how it works:  pro-rate for the number of charges, and then add 50gp.


----------



## renau1g

Uh-oh.... Fight!!!  

I'm glad I live up here in Canada, no primaries up here


----------



## Scotley

A fair solution. Thanks.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> A fair solution. Thanks.



Of course it is.  What else would you expect from me?


----------



## renau1g

My dear Leif, you are ever the magnanimous GM/DM.

(See my kissing up isn't reserved for Scotley )


----------



## Scott DeWar

And so very humble too, I might add


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:
			
		

> My dear Leif, you are ever the magnanimous GM/DM.
> (See my kissing up isn't reserved for Scotley )





			
				Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> And so very humble too, I might add



Thank you, My Subservient Thralls! 
Killing your treasured characters will now give me that much more nefarious pleasure!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Thank you, My Subservient Thralls!
> Killing your treasured characters will now give me that much more nefarious pleasure!




gereeeaaattt....

still working on Capizzio. spell lists and scrolls  right now.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Of course it is.  What else would you expect from me?




Well, I could come up with several creative responses to this one, but in the interests of keeping Tylara alive I'll move on. 

In truth, I really expected nothing less.


----------



## rossrebailey

*Max, Monk/Wizard appears on the scene?*

Hi Leif,

Thank you for your patience while I put my character together.  Please let me know if I need to change anything to conform with the rules.  If the character meets your approval, where should I start?

Ross

*Description:*
Name: Max
Gender: Male
Race: Human
Size: Medium, 5'11" tall, 145 lbs, 26 yrs. old
Gray hair; Blue eyes; pale skin
Alignment: Lawful Good
Class: Monk 3, Wizard 1 (Divination School)
Speak Common, Sylvan, Celestial, Draconic

*Abilities:* Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 8
Hit Points: 32
AC 14 (10 + 2 DEX + 2 Monk AC Bonus)
Touch AC 14, Flat AC 12
Initiative: +6 (Improved Initiative)
BAB: +3
Speed: 30' + '10 unarmored
Carrying Capacity: 58 lbs, 116 lbs, 175 lbs
Weight Carried: ~40 lbs
AC Modifiers: Fight Defensively + 3, Total Defense + 6, Selected Oponent + 1, Mobility + 4 for attack of opportunity due to movement
Saves: Fort + 4 (+3 base), Refl + 5 (0 dmg on save for Evasion), Will + 8 (+10 against enchantment)

*Attacks:*
Melee, +1 Kama, AB +6, 1d6+1, crit x2, Flurry of blows AB +3/+3
Melee, Unarmed, AB +5, 1d6, crit x2, Flurry of blows AB +2/+2
Ranged, Light Crossbow, AB +5, 1d8, crit 19-20/x2, 80'
Shuriken, AB +5, 1d2, crit x2, 10', Flurry of blows AB +2/+2

*Skills (54 Ranks):*
Knowledge: 10 (7 ranks, 3 Int)
Knowledge: 10 (7 ranks, 3 Int)
Listen: 8 (6 ranks, 2 Wis)
Hide: 8 (6 ranks, 2 Dex)
Spot: 8 (6 ranks, 2 Wis)
Concentration: 7 (6 ranks, 1 Con)
Decipher Script: 5 (2 ranks, 3 Int)
Spellcraft: 7(+2 divination) (2 ranks, 3 Int, 2 arcane synergy, 2 for Divination spells)
Balance: 10 (6 ranks, 2 Dex, 2 Tumble synergy)
Tumble: 8 (6 ranks, 2 Dex)

*Feats:*
Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Initiative, Scribe Scroll, Collegiat Wizard

*Spellbook:*
1st level: Comprehend Languages, Identify, True Strike, Detect Undead, Detect Secret Doors, Shield, Ventriloquism, Sleep, Magic Weapon

*Equipment: * 
Wand of Shocking Grasp
Mage armor potion, 10 oz
Light Crossbow, 30 bolts
+1 Kama
10 Shuriken
1808 gp

*Appearance/Personality:*
Max's wiry frame reflects his physical discipline, but his prematurely gray hair betrays an inability to pull himself out of the books if a question takes hold of him.  His hooked nose, thick eyebrows and slight hairlip bestow an unfortunate self-consciousness that keeps him to himself.  His search for knowledge leads him into many quests, however, which is why he cooperates with others whose talents he recognizes.

*Background:*
Max was orphaned, his ancestry erased, and brought up in a  monastery that he still calls home, after a fashion.  In other words, the library and the arena are committed to memory.  He may never return home.


----------



## Scott DeWar

sorry i am not quite done yet. i was playing the table game yesturday and it went tempoarally ascew.

actualy it went ascew in more ways then just temporally. One of the party members joined the side of our adversaries.


----------



## Leif

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> Hi Leif,
> 
> Thank you for your patience while I put my character together.  Please let me know if I need to change anything to conform with the rules.  If the character meets your approval, where should I start?
> 
> Ross



Okay, looks good.  All I can see that you need to do is specify what types of knowledge your skills cover.  There's Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Engineering), and probably many, many others.  Decide what you want Max to know, choose the appropriate fields of knowledge, and assign fields to each of his 2 knowledge skills, and I think that should do it. Thanks.  Get Max put into the RG, too!

There's no problem with you starting now.  They just stepped off the boat and are headed for a tavern to get a brew.  We'll just assume you are with them, and that you have been extraordinarily quiet until now, ok?


----------



## renau1g

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> actualy it went ascew in more ways then just temporally. One of the party members joined the side of our adversaries.





I've had that happen in one game, it led to the most memorable game in my 7 years of gaming, the BBEG met with the groups wizard and offered him substantial gold & a minor magic item to switch sides. (The group was attempting to dismantle his criminal organization) Eventually it culminated in a battle royale with the two sides, the enemies won (due to some poison that the wizard slipped into the food) and the campaign ended with a TPK, but it was still something that we talk about now, hilarious finale, when the last PC was at 0hp, but took a standard action to attack the wizard, killing him with a critical bow shot, and dropping himself.


----------



## Scott DeWar

wow a tpk ... personally i hate tpk s.

i have been in one tpk and two almost tpks (one surviver)


----------



## Scott DeWar

hey all got a non thread question:

[sblock=Poll]
who amoung us is planning or has started using the pathfinder RPG?

[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

I didn't know Pathfinder was available yet.  I would certainly like to get a very good, long look at it!


----------



## rossrebailey

*Pathfinder*

I participated in a play test last Friday.  Here is a log:
Garden State Gamers Society Meetup - Pathfinder Alpha Play Test


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

OOC: Pathfinder?


----------



## rossrebailey

The link I posted has another link to the product.  I am just learning about it myself.  The company produced some modules and adventures for DnD 3.5, and now they want to create a set of rules that improve on 3.5, but not to the point where adventures written for 3.5 are incompatible.


----------



## Scott DeWar

i have the alpha  ogl down load and am considering running a game. i guess i am wanting some opinions on it...this is a table top game so it won't interphere with the fun games from pbp.


----------



## Leif

This is a quote by rossrebailey on the Paizo test-game site:

"Anyway, 'twere lots o' fun, playin' and gettin' to know y'all!"

But he claims to be from Parsippany, NJ.  

Now, I and all the other southern boys out there just KNOW that folks who were raised up in New Jersey just do NOT talk that-a-way!  So, tell us the REAL DEAL Mr. Bailey:  If you're really a jersey dude, who taught you how to speak southern, and if you're a southern dude, why....why in God's name...did you move to New Jersey??


----------



## rossrebailey

Leif said:
			
		

> So, tell us the REAL DEAL Mr. Bailey:  If you're really a jersey dude, who taught you how to speak southern, and if you're a southern dude, why....why in God's name...did you move to New Jersey??




This is a serious question, and deserves a carefully considered response.

1. I am from California, known for it's loose speech.  I am a chameleon of language and location by nature.
2. I married a southern girl, met while attending college in Utah.
3. We were happily ensconced in Virginia, but NYC called my stage-loving wife, and jobs were to be found for me nearby.  If she can make it there...
4. I happily dispell all NJ myths spawned by the armpit of Newark as I stroll the 3/4 mile garden between my home and office each day!


----------



## Leif

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> 1. I am from California, known for it's loose speech.  I am a chameleon of language and location by nature.
> 2. I married a southern girl, met while attending college in Utah.
> 3. We were happily ensconced in Virginia, but NYC called my stage-loving wife, and jobs were to be found for me nearby.  If she can make it there...
> 4. I happily dispell all NJ myths spawned by the armpit of Newark as I stroll the 3/4 mile garden between my home and office each day!



California, huh?  Okay, I'll buy that.     Hope you weren't offended by my "serious question."


----------



## Scott DeWar

calif. eh? where there dude? i was born in Los Angles and lived that area til 12.


----------



## Scotley

I'm definately intrigued by Pathfinder. I noticed that Monte Cook, writer of the 3.0 DMG and key developer of the current rules has signed on as a rules advisor for Paizo.


----------



## Leif

I just hate that we have to wait so long for the hardcopy of Pathfinder to come out.  Shoot, I may have to break down and dowload the thing! :-O


----------



## Leif

Kerlan Rayne said:
			
		

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Leif
> When you reach Pembrose, you leave the boat (it's not really a "ship," as someone said), and walk toward the Inn.
> 
> OOC: To Kerlan, it's a ship. None of the boats he's been on have been much bigger than a rowboat. He's seen and done a lot of new things since coming to Whirlstaff's, but he's still a farm boy.



Ok, sorry I didn't recognize the role play there at first.  But good job!


----------



## rossrebailey

Leif said:
			
		

> California, huh?  Okay, I'll buy that.     Hope you weren't offended by my "serious question."




Not a bit


----------



## rossrebailey

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> calif. eh? where there dude? i was born in Los Angles and lived that area til 12.




The "other California", Hayward, near San Francisco, born there and lived in the same house until I went to college.  Naturally, I view So. Californian's with a mixture of amusement and awe.


----------



## Leif

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> I happily dispell all NJ myths spawned by the armpit of Newark as I stroll the 3/4 mile garden between my home and office each day!



Well, it _is_ "the Garden State," after all......

I'm not sure which one is "the Armpit State," however.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar,  did you mean to buy m/w thieves' tools for Capizzio?  I wonder that because of the misc. +2 modifier you list for Open Locks and Disable Device.  Well, if that was your intention, you must have been using an invisible keyboard when you typed those tools, or ANY tools for that matter, on your equipment list.  In the altermative, perhaps I need to make an appointment with the optometrist immediately! (This is, unfortunately, entirely possible....)


----------



## Scott DeWar

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> The "other California", Hayward, near San Francisco, born there and lived in the same house until I went to college.  Naturally, I view So. Californian's with a mixture of amusement and awe.




yes, it is true. southern cal is like a whole nother world. as for the armpit state, i would vote for mississippi ... been there twice and , ... well ...*gag gag cough cough*

[sblock=Leif's eyesight]

I think yoour eys are playing tricks on you. either that or there were some things that i had not spent yet that i  had wanted to and they got spen...not that i would do that to you ...

[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

Two of you, who shall remain nameles (but their initials are Xavier and Capizzio), have totally overlooked the VERY GENEROUS rule that I posted in the first post of the RG about character hitpoints.  But, hey, if you're happy, I'm happy.  You can still make the change, and take full advantage of my ruling for now, but I'm not going to leave the option open forever......  So, if you want it, better get it!


----------



## Leif

And those of you who insist on wearing armor,please note your Arcane Spell Failure chance PROMINENTLY on your sheets, so that I can find it easily without having to look it up.  I thank you for your kind consideration.  (Ok, more of you have already done this than I first thought. :"> )

Mithral shirt?? HONESTLY, Capizzio....


----------



## Scott DeWar

light armor: can sleep in it without being fatigued

armor check penalty 0 : great for sneaking about

spell failure 10% chance: well can't have every thing


----------



## Scott DeWar

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> The "other California", Hayward, near San Francisco, born there and lived in the same house until I went to college.  Naturally, I view So. Californian's with a mixture of amusement and awe.




Amusement!? harumph!

i was staioned in the desert from '82 to '85. victorville area to be exact. *THAT* is a whole nother world there!



			
				Leif said:
			
		

> Two of you, who shall remain nameles (but their initials are Xavier and Capizzio), have totally overlooked the VERY GENEROUS rule that I posted in the first post of the RG about character hitpoints.  But, hey, if you're happy, I'm happy.  You can still make the change, and take full advantage of my ruling for now, but I'm not going to leave the option open forever......  So, if you want it, better get it!




do you mean this?: HIT POINTS: MAX for all dice, all the time.

from this edit?: Last edited by Leif : 05-09-08 at 10:46 AM.

that is an already done deal for me!!


----------



## renau1g

Fixed! Thanks Leif, apparently I can't see, I guess all those hours in front of spreadsheets have caught up with me


----------



## rossrebailey

Leif,

I created an entry in RG for Max for Spells Usually Memorized during Adventure.  Is there still time to memorize before we leave the Inn?

Ross


----------



## Leif

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> Leif,
> I created an entry in RG for Max for Spells Usually Memorized during Adventure.  Is there still time to memorize before we leave the Inn?
> Ross



Now what kind of a DM would I be if I didn't let my wizards memorize spells?  I think we can assume that spellbook study has become an integral part of everyone's morning routine, unless otherwise stated, barring unusual circumstances.


----------



## Leif

*Spell Preparation*

I'm assuming that you all attended to spell preparation before coming down to breakfast.  Once we get more into the action of the adventure, things like that will be much more important, but for this time, at least, I'm not going to worry too much about it.  Just don't go changing your memorized spells in the middle of a day unless you've taken the necessary time for rest and study.  But you all know that, don't you?


----------



## rossrebailey

Yep, understood


----------



## Scotley

Tylara will have memorized her standard selection of adventuring spells. 

She has a magical darkwood buckler which will give a 5% spell failure chance. In any non-combat situation she would slip it off before attempting a casting. I'll make that clear in the RG. 

If thistledown padded armor, an elven specialty from Races of the Wild ever becomes available Tylara would get a suit. No spell failure chance, but only 1 point of armor protection.


----------



## Scott DeWar

> Just don't go changing your memorized spells in the middle of a day unless you've taken the necessary time for rest and study. But you all know that, don't you?




of course we know that!  *RBG*

I left Capizzio's spells as is because i felt that was a good travel combo for him.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> She has a magical darkwood buckler which will give a 5% spell failure chance. In any non-combat situation she would slip it off before attempting a casting. I'll make that clear in the RG.



You can make it as clear as you want in the RG, but if you don't say, IC, that she is slipping it off when she had been wearing it, then she will still have the 5% asf chance.   Sorry, but that's not the sort of thing that you can cover with a blanket "but I said that she always does this" kind of statement.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> You can make it as clear as you want in the RG, but if you don't say, IC, that she is slipping it off when she had been wearing it, then she will still have the 5% asf chance.   Sorry, but that's not the sort of thing that you can cover with a blanket "but I said that she always does this" kind of statement.




Okay, fair enough. I thought it might be reasonable in non-critical situations, but I will be specific when the situation arises. I don't expect she would be wearing the buckler in the lab and such anyway. I will address the presence or absence of the buckler as needed. Thank you for the clarification.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Okay, fair enough. I thought it might be reasonable in non-critical situations, but I will be specific when the situation arises. I don't expect she would be wearing the buckler in the lab and such anyway. I will address the presence or absence of the buckler as needed. Thank you for the clarification.



Well, hey, I don't want to be a hard-ass about it.  Maybe it would make more sense to assume that T is not using the buckler unless you specifically say so?  Or, to ask it another way:  while creeping down a dungeon corridor, is default mode with or without buckler?  (Unless told otherwise, I'll assume that when in a town, in a library doing research, or in the laboratory, T foregoes the shield.  Is that cool witchyoo?)


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> Well, hey, I don't want to be a hard-ass about it.  Maybe it would make more sense to assume that T is not using the buckler unless you specifically say so?  Or, to ask it another way:  while creeping down a dungeon corridor, is default mode with or without buckler?  (Unless told otherwise, I'll assume that when in a town, in a library doing research, or in the laboratory, T foregoes the shield.  Is that cool witchyoo?)




That is perfectly cool with me. Tylara will keep the bucker hanging from her belt when out and about under relatively safe conditions and hanging on the wall in her room while at school. While in the inn such as last night she would not wear it, but she'll have it on her person while boating. If I want her to wear it on her arm I shall post such.


----------



## Leif

Gotcha!


----------



## Leif

*For Renau1g*

Just DM's curiosity:  Is Xavier pronounced "Zavier" or, in the Spanish fashion, "Ha-vee-air"??


----------



## Leif

still awaiting an answer from renau1g...... (?)


----------



## Leif

[sblock=Scotley/Tylara]Quick question: why is there no source listed for a +1 Darkwood Buckler?  Is that in DMG?  'cause I sure don't remember seeing it there!  And no spell failure chance for it?  Tylara does not have proficiency with buckler listed, either, nor does it appear to be figured into her AC.  So... it's just very confusing all the way around.  Boy, you let some people be a little bit trusted, and they pull all kinds a crap on ya! [/sblock]


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:
			
		

> [sblock=Scotley/Tylara]Quick question: why is there no source listed for a +1 Darkwood Buckler?  Is that in DMG?  'cause I sure don't remember seeing it there!  And no spell failure chance for it?  Tylara does not have proficiency with buckler listed, either, nor does it appear to be figured into her AC.  So... it's just very confusing all the way around.  Boy, you let some people be a little bit trusted, and they pull all kinds a crap on ya! [/sblock]




[sblock=Leif]Darkwood is a special material listed in the DMG under special materials along with Adamantine, Alchemical Silver etc. You can find the entry in the DMG just after magic items if memory serves or check out the basic info in the SRD here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#

The advantages of darkwood are a) it is wood and thus useful to a Druid who can't use metal shields or armor b) it is lighter than regular wood and c) it is as strong as metal. It is just regular +1 magical as well. As a Druid Tylara is proficient with wooden shields and non-metal armors. There is no particular extra advantage to the darkwood buckler over a regular buckler in terms of spell failure--it is still 5%. As we discussed earlier, Tylara will not be wearing it, unless I specifically say she puts it on. So at this point it is hanging from a hook on her belt. As all darkwood items are masterwork it has no armor check penalty--the masterwork quality negating the normal -1 Armor penalty for bucklers. When she wears it, she will improve AC by 2 and have the 5% spell failure chance. I'll go back to her sheet and make sure the spell failure chance is listed and make the AC clear as well. [/sblock]


----------



## renau1g

Is Xavier pronounced "Zavier":

Sorry for the delay Leif, I apparently missed these posts... maybe I was on drugs... or something.

Anyways, Zavier is the pronounciation.


----------



## Scott DeWar

ok, i am being a blind moron here ...  just how many spells should be in his book at second level of caster.

Edit: i have slashed a couple to prepare to get the right number of spells.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> ok, i am being a blind moron here ...  just how many spells should be in his book at second level of caster.
> Edit: i have slashed a couple to prepare to get the right number of spells.



Do you have the book with the Collegiate Wizard feat?  I think it's Complete Mage, but it might be Complete Arcane.  No, I'm almost positive that it's Complete Mage.  Anyway the feat Collegiate Wizard is in a sidebar on p. 181, that's not in the table of contents, so it's pretty easy to overlook.  It says:

[start of quote from srd]
Collegiate Wizard
You have undergone extensive training in a formal school for wizards.
Prerequisites: Int 13, wizard level 1

Benefit: You begin play with knowledge of six 1st-level spells, plus 1 per point of Intelligence bonus. Each time you gain a wizard level, you may add four spells to your spellbook. You gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (arcana) checks.

Normal: 1st-level wizards begin play with knowledge of three 1st-level spells, and add two spells per level to their spellbook.

Special: You can take this feat only as a 1st-level character.
[end of quote from srd]

  Actually, come to think of it, you may have already had the correct number, and, if so, my most abject apologies to you!  I was just stunned by the sheer number of spells, but that is what I asked for, I guess. 



			
				renau1g said:
			
		

> ....maybe I was on drugs



Shame on you for not bringing enough for the rest of the class!


----------



## Leif

Note the statement at the end of the description of the Collegiate Mage feat that says that you can only take the feat as a first level character!  That means that those of you who have another class, such as druid, or rogue, or monk, will not qualify to take the collegiate wizard feat, and so will only have the normal number of spells.  But, on the plus side, you have the abilities from your other class, not the least of which is the superior hit points, to make up for it.  Those without a class other than wizard are more than welcome to take the Collegiate Wizard feat, but I'm not going to twist your  arms or anything...


----------



## Scott DeWar

Complete Arcane page 181

Begin play with 6 first level spells plus 1 per int mod
Each level there after you gain 4
 therefor capizzio gets 6 + 3 + 4

i seem to have added his int mod on the second level here for a total of 16. I have checked every where and there is no allowence for int mod for second level and beyond on spells in the book, so i will remove three spells from the list and will annotate them by a slash through it. so sorry Leif.

An no, I was not no drugs. It was a brain fart, pure and simple.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Note the statement at the end of the description of the Collegiate Mage feat that says that you can only take the feat as a first level character!  That means that those of you who have another class, such as druid, or rogue, or monk, will not qualify to take the collegiate wizard feat, and so will only have the normal number of spells.  But, on the plus side, you have the abilities from your other class, not the least of which is the superior hit points, to make up for it.  Those without a class other than wizard are more than welcome to take the Collegiate Wizard feat, but I'm not going to twist your  arms or anything...




wow ... never thought about that fact that i started him as a rogue at first and second levels...thanks for letting us take it any way!


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> i seem to have added his int mod on the second level here for a total of 16. I have checked every where and there is no allowence for int mod for second level and beyond on spells in the book, so i will remove three spells from the list and will annotate them by a slash through it. so sorry Leif.
> An no, I was not no drugs. It was a brain fart, pure and simple.



Yeah int bonus only applies to spells at the start.  Good thought, though!  Maybe they'll work that change into 4e? hehehe

And I thought of a way that you can have druid/wizard collegiate Wizards!  Start as a wizard and take Collegiate Wizard.  When you earn xp for 2nd level, take it in the druid (or whatever) class.  Third level is at your discretion, but, as I said initially, FOURTH character level needs to be in the WIZARD class, whether that makes you a 4th level wizard, 3rd level wizard, or 2nd level wizard (technically, it could be your 1st level as a wizard, but, if so, you won't be eligible for the Collegiate Wizard feat).


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

OK, a couple of questions.

First, while the description does state you must take Collegiate Wizard as a first level character, it doesn't say you have to be a Wizard to take it.  It could be that one underwent 'extensive study' but happened to pick up a different class first (due to aptitude or some other reason).  It's a stretch, I know, but I thought it worth asking about.

Second (in case the First question doesnt work out), you very generously and magnanimously gave us Collegiate Wizard as a bonus feat, so if we didn't take Wizard as our first class do we get a different bonus feat to replace it?  Doesn't quite seem fair, otherwise . . .


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:
			
		

> First, while the description does state you must take Collegiate Wizard as a first level character, it doesn't say you have to be a Wizard to take it.  It could be that one underwent 'extensive study' but happened to pick up a different class first (due to aptitude or some other reason).  It's a stretch, I know, but I thought it worth asking about.
> Second (in case the First question doesnt work out), you very generously and magnanimously gave us Collegiate Wizard as a bonus feat, so if we didn't take Wizard as our first class do we get a different bonus feat to replace it?  Doesn't quite seem fair, otherwise . . .



Ok, I think we have both misunderstood something:  You must be a first level wizard to take Collegiate Wizard, but it doesn't have to be first CHARACTER level.  And, since it is awarded as a bonus feat, all characters are entitled to it when they enter the academy, regardless of whether they would normally have a feat coming then.  That should make everything work out right, shouldn't it?  If I am overlooking another problem, please tell me what it is, and we can talk about your proposal then.  'Zat cool wichu?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

EXCELLENT!  Saves my lazy butt from having to do all that thinkin' 'bout which spells to do away with - and since my butt's already overloaded from doing all my other thinkin' that makes it happy!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Oh great benevelant, generous and magnanimous one ...
zat ist cool vit me!


----------



## Leif

EXCELLENT!  I aims ta pleeze.


----------



## Leif

renau1g in the IC thread said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be sticking a wand of shocking grasp into my breeches . Sounds painful.



Hey, who are we to judge how Max gets his jollies?! 
Let's try to keep comments like this in the OOC thread, ok?


----------



## Scott DeWar

hey! I am an electrician, so i know shocking grasp first hand (pun intended) ! there are no jollies it that at all! (imho)

Edit (addendum) :


			
				Leif said:
			
		

> OOC:  Well, I never heard of a wand working like that before, but your idea does fit with the spell, and it's a pretty cool idea, so I'll allow it!  You might want to check with me first, next time, though...
> 
> Oh, and you need to modify your post to make it VERY CLEAR that you are spending a charge from your wand, as well.  If you had made that clear I probably wouldn't have been confused.  Using a wand takes more than just touching it, though.  There is a command word involved, and stuff.  You're post also doesn't mention a command word being spoken, but you can fix that in your edit.
> 
> BONUS RULING:  We'll say that when you use the wand in this way, you need to spend the spell energy you get from the wand within ONE HOUR, or the charge just dissipates.  As you say, it must be a melee touch, just shaking someone's hand won't cause the damage, unless, of course, that's how you WANT it to work.  In other words, the spell energy must be INTENTIONALLY discharged within one hour's time, or else it dissipates and is lost.




I sent you an e mail, Leif, reguarding this.

david


----------



## Leif

*The Great "Shocking Grasp" Controversy of 2008*

In regard to the Shocking Grasp/Holding the Charge controversy created and perpetuated by Leif's quirkiness, let me just say that I have been advised of the Official ruling on the question and how it differs from my personal preference.  I have presented the choice to the player whose character was at the heart of this question, and he said, he was cool with either way and he invited me to hurry up and make up my freaking mind about it.  (Ok, not in those words, or anything, I'm exercising a little Poetic License here.)  Anyway, before I do make up my mind I want to think about it more.  So I'm gonna sleep on it for at least one night.  Stay tuned...


----------



## Scott DeWar

... and any comments as to me being a rules lawyer i can only say this:

no comment.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> ... and any comments as to me being a rules lawyer i can only say this:
> no comment.



Well said, Counselor!   You definitely should sign up to take the LSAT at your earliest convenience! -- Leif, DM/lawyer


----------



## Leif

*Latest House Rule on "Holding the Charge"*

After more thought, here is what I propose:

When "Holding the Charge," you must voluntarily release the spell energy within 2 MINUTES per spell level, or the energy will dissipate.  This is much more restrictive than my previous ruling of a flat 1 hour for a spell of any level, but it still gives you 12 rounds within which to score a hit with a _Shocking Grasp_, which seems more than adequate to me.  I'm not totally committed to this latest ruling, and I am open to suggestions.  But I do like making the time allowed for discharge dependent upon the level of the spell (or maybe Caster Level).  But the way it is phrased here seems to me to be the best way to handle it.  Comments, anyone?

I have started a new thread in the House Rules forum to invite comments on this from other EnWorlders, and here's the link: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=4278707#post4278707 .   As I said, any/all comments are invited.

And I also added this new wrinkle, too:  If the character is touched by, for example, the character's melee opponent making a touch attack against the character, then the spell may be immediately discharged against the opponent touching the character as an Immediate Action, thus freeing the character in question to cast another spell on the character's next turn.  (Thanks to Thanee for the clarification that I meant an "Immediate Action" instead of a 'Free Action."  )


----------



## rossrebailey

I'm for it.


----------



## Scott DeWar

gee, you sound more of a lawyer then even I do *ducks as lightning bolt sail accross room*


----------



## rossrebailey

While we're putting this monk attack puzzle together, I just want to make sure I'm right about my chances of the tactic working. The ogre's touch AC is much lower than their normal AC, like 8 to touch and 16 to hit in melee, right?  Therefore, Max might succeed in delivering the shocking grasp even if he does no damage, correct?


----------



## Scotley

I'm comfortable with your 2 minute rule and would be happy to use it in our own games. I can picture few situations were 12 rounds wouldn't be enough to use the spell. Any more than that encourages wizards to walk around with a spell pre-cast and waiting for a fight. 

As to the last point raised about touch ac vs. regular ac. I've typically ruled that if you want to use a regular attack to do damage then that is the only one that counts. You would not get a chance to get the spell damage if your roll fell between the touch and regular ac in my game. I don't honestly know if that is a strictly correct interpretation of the rules.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:
			
		

> gee, you sound more of a lawyer then even I do *ducks as lightning bolt sail accross room*



Gosh, I wonder why I sound that way?? 

Scotley:  I don't understand exactly what you mean?  If a touch attack is all that is required by the spell, why wouldn't a hit against Touch AC be sufficient?


----------



## Scotley

The issue is getting both a touch attack spell and a monks physical attack both out of it. That's some pretty hefty damage. To make it balanced it should be all or nothing. If the character is going to try and get a full hit that does physical damage as well as the spell then that means making an attack vs. the full AC. If that attack misses then in my opinion there should be a full miss spell and all. If he wants to go for the more sure damage of the touch attack spell then he shouldn't get the chance to do the extra damage from a physical blow. My expectation is that there will be a lot occations where their is a significant difference between the full and touch AC. If he chooses to the take the safe bet and just use the spell then of course he can roll vs. touch AC as per the rules. I believe this is a correct reading of the rules, but I haven't doubled checked the reference.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

That seems to me to be the most 'realistic' way of doing things.  Think of it as the difference between trying to tag someone playing 'Freeze Tag' and trying to land a solid punch.  They're two very different actions, and being able to touch an opponent doesn't mean you can land a blow.  I'm not explaining it very well, but maybe well enough to get my point across . . .


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> The issue is getting both a touch attack spell and a monks physical attack both out of it. That's some pretty hefty damage. To make it balanced it should be all or nothing. If the character is going to try and get a full hit that does physical damage as well as the spell then that means making an attack vs. the full AC. If that attack misses then in my opinion there should be a full miss spell and all. If he wants to go for the more sure damage of the touch attack spell then he shouldn't get the chance to do the extra damage from a physical blow. My expectation is that there will be a lot occations where their is a significant difference between the full and touch AC. If he chooses to the take the safe bet and just use the spell then of course he can roll vs. touch AC as per the rules. I believe this is a correct reading of the rules, but I haven't doubled checked the reference.



Ahh, ok, I gotcha now!  The thing is, if the attack scored high enough to beat the opponents touch AC, but not enough to beat his full AC, then that should be good enough to zap him with just the _Shocking Grasp_, shouldn't it?  Obviously, that wouldn't be good enough to get the open-hand monk damage, too.  I don't see  why you have a problem with a partial success here:  seems pretty out-of-character for you, my friend!


----------



## Leif

Think of it this way, Scotley:  Imagine that you are a monk/wizard with an active _Shocking Grasp_ spell going, and you're making an open-hand attack against a goblin.  If you score sufficiently high on your attack to make contact with his metal breastplate, but not enough to, say, hit him in the throat, why shouldn't you have THE OPTION of discharging your _Shocking Grasp_ into his metal breastplate to zap his little goblin nipples off?


----------



## Scotley

Just trying to uphold the rules. I agree as a player it would be better for me to argue for the partial success. Tylara will almost certainly face a similar situation in the future. Further, there is sound logic to your nipple zapping arguement. I'm just not sure how allowing the partial success will effect game balance.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:
			
		

> Just trying to uphold the rules. I agree as a player it would be better for me to argue for the partial success. Tylara will almost certainly face a similar situation in the future. Further, there is sound logic to your nipple zapping arguement. I'm just not sure how allowing the partial success will effect game balance.



Ok, fair enough.  I think, for now, we'll go ahead and allow the partial success in a case like this.  I mean, come on, you guys need every edge in combat that you can get at this point!  I have a feeling that this fact is going to become PAINFULLY obvious to some characters in the very near future as we continue the Ogre battle....  

And, this whole game is something of an experiment, anyway, to see if a party of all wizards can really be successful!  So, I'm inclined to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, at least for now.


----------



## Scotley

Cool, believe me I won't complain about the extra edge, as you say we are gonna need it.


----------



## rossrebailey

I'm happy to get the ruling as well.  I don't like my odds against an ogre as it stands, so I'll take what I can get!


----------



## Leif

The problem is that these ogre are wielding big ol' clubs, so smashing a wizard who has an active _Shocking Grasp_ with a tree trunk will not discharge the spell.


----------



## rossrebailey

Could someone point me to an accurate reference on the bulletin board codes for hiding sections and other fancy stuff?


----------



## Leif

*Text Effects*

I don't know if there's a reference on the board or not.  There probably is, but I don't know it.  But let me tell you about the tricks I've learned:  I'll substitute the first Bracket with a Brace, so that you can see what I've done:
{color=red]text to appear in red.[/color]  See that syntax?  That's what is used for many things, "[text effect] text to be affected [/text effect].  Works for text colors, as above, italics {i],[/i], underline {u],[/u], *bold* {b], [/b], and strikethrough {s], [/s].  There may be others, but that ought to get you started.  Oh yeah, and to see the available colors, just look at the pull down menu in the Reply to Thread window, by clicking on the arrow.   NO SPACES BEFORE, AFTER, OR WITHIN A COLOR NAME!  So, Dark Slate Blue is entered as darkslateblue. 

If you see something that you don't know how to do, but want to learn how to do it, all you have to do is reply to the message and quote the message in your reply, and when the window opens for your reply you'll be able to see all the codes embedded in the original message.


----------



## Scott DeWar

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> Could someone point me to an accurate reference on the bulletin board codes for hiding sections and other fancy stuff?




[sblock=coding info]if this is what you were looking to know it is cakked a spoiler block. if you open with square brackes ([) type sblock and then close with square brackets (]) to start and do the sme  but with the /sblock then you have the spoiler block. if you have a particular thing you want to print with it, such as getting the dm's attention you would open the printing with sblock=hey leif! this is for you to see only and close with the normal /sblock all with the appropiate square bracketing then it would look like this:

[sblock=hey leif! this is for you to see only ]

this is only a test [/sblock]

[/sblock]
cheesy cheat tip:

somtimes i will hit quote just to see what was the coding text on someone's post ... hey! it works, ok?!


----------



## Leif

[sblock=rossrebailey]Scott DeWar gave you the same help that I tried to give you.  Maybe between both descriptions you can figure it all out? hehe[/sblock]


----------



## rossrebailey

*Re: bulletin board codes*

[sblock=Open for a Sign of Appreciation]Thank you both!   [/sblock]


----------



## Scott DeWar

no prob, but just to let you know,



			
				rossrebailey said:
			
		

> Could someone point me to an accurate reference on the bulletin board codes for hiding sections and other fancy stuff?




accurate reference  = just ask and we will help you freely!


----------



## Leif

Yes, we surely will!  (Assuming that we know the answer oursleves...)


----------



## Leif

Did I remember to tell everyone that ALL characters have Collegiate Wizard as a bonus feat?  I know that at least some of you have it listed, but I'm not sure everyone does.  If you don't have it yet, then you are going to need to choose a lot more spells for your spellbook.  The description of the feat is in a sidebar in Complete Arcane (I think, but I guess it could be in Comp. Mage?) but I don't know the page number offhand.


----------



## renau1g

You can also look at the RG, I've got the feat listed in my C/S. Saves time flipping through the books.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:
			
		

> Yes, we surely will!  (Assuming that we know the answer oursleves...)





I can always fake an answer...as for the collegiat wizard, it is only found in comp arcane as far as i know.


----------



## Leif

*For Mowgli:*



			
				Mowgli said:
			
		

> In some cases I wasn't sure which skill to apply, but Manny has all of the at +6 (except Arcana, which is +8) so I just took my best guess and applied the +6 modifier.



In my IC post, I told you which skills applied to each check.  If you have more than one skill that applies in a given case, then you should make a check for each applicable skill.  Make sense?  You have time to edit your post if needed.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:
			
		

> In my IC post, I told you which skills applied to each check.  If you have more than one skill that applies in a given case, then you should make a check for each applicable skill.  Make sense?  You have time to edit your post if needed.




Null Perspiration - Seems like we got the gist of all of it.  I only saw specific skills listed in about half the cases, but I think I muddled through OK.


----------



## Leif

I think that most of you should already know this from the other threads to which I post, but I wanted to make sure that everyone knows for sure:

I will be going out of town for a couple of days this Sunday evening.  So I won't be able to post from then until Tuesday night, or possibly Wednesday.


----------



## Scott DeWar

ah, thanks for the heads up...this is the first i have seen of it


----------



## Scotley

Leif--Have a safe trip!

Rossrebaily--Thanks for the treasure post, but skip the singing next time, it hurts Tylara's Elf ears.   

Seriously, thank you for keeping track of this. With luck it will soon be a huge hoard. Very creative finding a way to put some in character humor into a mundane task.


----------



## Scott DeWar

do aour characters want to spend a day or so after speaking with the constable to write spells or something?


----------



## Scott DeWar

if you are having troubles with your links, check this out:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4336930&postcount=181


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> do aour characters want to spend a day or so after speaking with the constable to write spells or something?



Ummm, you might want to go ahead and visit Crus, he IS a wizard himself, after all.....  But whatever you wish to do is ok with me.

Oh, and thanks, Scotley!  The trip was just peachy.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:


> if you are having troubles with your links, check this out:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4336930&postcount=181



Here's what the post says:







Bront said:


> FYI, A lot of links may be broken from inside the forum.  You need to add "forum/" to the url of any old forum links to get them to work.
> 
> example:
> Old: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=215439&page=12
> 
> New: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=215439&page=12



What you could also do is change your links to use the [thread] and [post] tags, instead of [URL] tags.

Hey Leif, have you checked out the new Groups and Blog features? I don't know if it would help any to have a Group setup for this game or not.


----------



## Leif

No, I haven't checked out the group thing.  Guess I'll go do that now!  Thanks. 

Found it!

Do you guys want me to form a group for this game?  Here are some sugestions for the group's name:

1.  Whirtlestaffs Alumni Society
2.  Wizards Anonymous
3.  ACES (Arcane Casters' Edification Society)

Any of these look good to anybody?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Do you guys want me to form a group for this game?



I'm not sure how it would help us with anything as I haven't really tried it out. Any ideas from anyone on how we could use it? If we do make one, I would go with Whirtlestaff's Alumni Society. It's not too generic and links it with this game specifically.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> I'm not sure how it would help us with anything as I haven't really tried it out. Any ideas from anyone on how we could use it? If we do make one, I would go with Whirtlestaff's Alumni Society. It's not too generic and links it with this game specifically.



Well, what I was thinking with the more generic names was that it seems to me that we should be willing to include others with similar interests.  Naming the group after Whirtlestaffs seems like it would have a pretty chilling effect on anyone who doesn't play in our game, even if they just lurrrve wizards!


----------



## Scott DeWar

fwi: yesturday there was a power outage in my neighborhood and i did not have poswer till midnight, at which time i had already crashed. sorry for any delays.

I will look into this(groups/blogs) after work today.


----------



## Leif

*rossrebailey*

Don't I remember correctly that Max used a charge from his wand of _Shocking Grasp_ in the battle with the ogres?  If I'm right about this, will you please note on his character sheet that the wand only has 49 charges remaining?


----------



## Leif

*Renau1g*

[sblock=For Renaulg ONLY]Do you want me to keep in mind the situation with Xavier's father, for purposes of a possible reconciliation further on down the line?  Or is Xavier flourishing and coming into his own now that he is out from under the old man?  You said that he has no desire to return home, but I was wondering if this feeling would always continue, you think?  What about if he had a chance to return home to throw his success at Whirtlestaffs in his father's face? [/sblock]


----------



## rossrebailey

Leif said:


> Don't I remember correctly that Max used a charge from his wand of _Shocking Grasp_ in the battle with the ogres?  If I'm right about this, will you please note on his character sheet that the wand only has 49 charges remaining?




Thank you for the reminder.  RG is updated.


----------



## Leif

*Scott DeWar*

[sblock=For Scott DeWar and others without familiars]On Capizzio's  character sheet, it says that 'Collegiate Mage" replaces "Summon Familiar."  That was the ruling for Whirtlestaffs I, but I think I just made Collegiate Mage a Bonus Feat for Whirtlestaffs II, because Tylara and Xavier have familiars.  I just checked (see the first post of the RG) and, yep, Collegiate Mage is a pure bonus feat.  Don't have a familiar unless you want one, but I thought you should know that the option is out there. [/sblock]


----------



## Leif

rossrebailey said:
			
		

> Thank you for the reminder. RG is updated.



No, no, no, thank YOU!!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> [sblock=For Scott DeWar and others without familiars]On Capizzio's  character sheet, it says that 'Collegiate Mage" replaces "Summon Familiar."  That was the ruling for Whirtlestaffs I, but I think I just made Collegiate Mage a Bonus Feat for Whirtlestaffs II, because Tylara and Xavier have familiars.  I just checked (see the first post of the RG) and, yep, Collegiate Mage is a pure bonus feat.  Don't have a familiar unless you want one, but I thought you should know that the option is out there. [/sblock]




thanks for the reminder...i never liked familiars anyway. I will update here shortly.


----------



## Leif

Updating is not that big a deal.  I was more concerned that you knew you could have a familiar if you wanted one.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Don't have a familiar unless you want one, but I thought you should know that the option is out there.



I did know about that but had Kerlan trade his familiar for the Abrupt Jaunt alternative class feature from the PHB2.


----------



## Leif

Cool.   Works for me.


----------



## Leif

Manny is unavailable until at least Sunday night.  He's been "lake-ified" for the 4th.  Thanks to Scotley for the scoop.


----------



## Scott DeWar

*Inn for the night*



Leif said:


> The Wizards decide that they've seen just about all of Twain that they can stomach for one night, and retire to the Hog's Head Inn.  The accomodations there are very rustic, to say the least, but comfortable and cozy.  Fairly reminiscent of sleeping over at your grandma's house.
> 
> ...
> 
> The night passes peacefully, and you all awake refreshed at whatever hour is customary for you.  (Unless some of your noisy comrades awaken earlier and decide to disturb you, that is.)




suddenly there is a terriffic KABOOM followed by capizzio's voice saying "oops, ..uh, ... sorry ... uh, good morning all!" he shows his face from the balcony, white teeth showing in a smile, and his skins is powdered with black soot and his hair is flashed out from his face. the charred remains of a scroll are still in his hands, smoking ...

just kidding every one!


----------



## Leif

*Holding the charge*

This just came up for real!  Renau1g, Kinem, in his Master of the Desert Nomads game made this ruling in reference to your character:

[sblock=Kinem's Ruling, NOT MINE]"renau1g, if you cast another spell, you can no longer hold the charge of a touch spell. This applies to your familiar holding a charge for you as well. Rajah would have known this so I will say that you did not go through with that plan." [/sblock]

Well, I don't think that I like that at all!  Anybody want to try saying that you can cast another spell, while your familiar is holding the charge of a different spell, with neither spell lost?  I agree with Kinem that if you are holding a charge yourself and cast a separate spell, then th held charge is lost, but using a familiar to deliver the held charge seems like a perfect solution and an excellent reason to have a familiar.  Opinions?


----------



## Scott DeWar

I have been playing d and d since A D and D , firsst edition. I seem to always get the hostage situation, that is the familiar is kidnapped, threatened and the wizard is co-erced into doing something he would never do normally ... one time it was summopn this elder being in to the world and he alone caused the total destruction of all on the serface ... not a pretty picture.  Still do not want a familiar.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:


> Well, I don't think that I like that at all!  Anybody want to try saying that you can cast another spell, while your familiar is holding the charge of a different spell, with neither spell lost?  I agree with Kinem that if you are holding a charge yourself and cast a separate spell, then th held charge is lost, but using a familiar to deliver the held charge seems like a perfect solution and an excellent reason to have a familiar.  Opinions?





Leif,

Check the Sorcerer's Familiar sidebar (pg. 53 of the PH).  'As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.'  I think this is in reference to the above question . . .  On the other hand, as with all RPGs - it's the DMs game, so do as thou wilt!


----------



## Leif

Yeah, as said, Kinem ruled the way that you said.  But I think we'll try it my way and see how it goes.  I may change my mind, later, but it doesn't seem like it would unbalance things too much, does it?  We'll try it the way I said for now.


----------



## renau1g

Arrgghhh! I just get back into the swing of things and then I have my master plan dashed...in another game (of course).

[sblock=Leif]
What about if he had a chance to return home to throw his success at Whirtlestaffs in his father's face?  
I think this would be a great RP thing to work towards...
[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Arrgghhh! I just get back into the swing of things and then I have my master plan dashed...in another game (of course).
> [sblock=Leif]
> What about if he had a chance to return home to throw his success at Whirtlestaffs in his father's face?
> I think this would be a great RP thing to work towards...
> [/sblock]



[sblock=renau1g]I thought that you might just think so!  We can definitely make that a goal, then.[/sblock][sblock=renau1g, "Master Plan"??]is the "master plan" you mentioned Kinem's defecation on Rajah's plan to have his familiar deliver a spell?  If so, you should be pleased to know that I've specifically made a ruling allowing a familiar to hold the charge of one spell while the master casts a different spell without affecting the charge that the familiar is holding.  As I've been saying in other posts, we'll TRY it that way for now as a House Rule, but I reserve the right to rescind this ruling if it skews the balance of the game.  I don't THINK that it will, though.  In fact, I think it's just a pretty darned cool idea.[/sblock]


----------



## renau1g

[sblock=Master Plan]
Indeed, I was referring to Rajah's actions. I've never really played a wizard and would like to see if it works out ok. Besides Xavier doesn't really have many touch spells. I'll be a little bit posting for Xavier, there's so many posts to read through 
[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> [sblock=Master Plan]
> Indeed, I was referring to Rajah's actions. I've never really played a wizard and would like to see if it works out ok. Besides Xavier doesn't really have many touch spells. I'll be a little bit posting for Xavier, there's so many posts to read through
> [/sblock]



[sblock=renau1g/Xavier/Rajah]You've never really played a wizard before, and now you're playing TWO!  I think I defiinitely got the better part of that deal over Kinem!  Rajah gives me the creeps!  hehehehe  Yeah, touch spells are a pain, anyway, aren't they?  Rays are so much more clean and convenient.  No hurry on posting.  Just get to it when you can! [/sblock]


----------



## Leif

*Experience Point Awards so far*

I don't think I've given out any experience yet, so I guess it's about time.  I believe that I said you started at the mid-point between 4th and 5th levels, someone please correct me if I'm mis-remembering this.

For the Ogre Battle, Travel from Pembrose to Twain, Role-Playing Awards, Story Awards, and Misc. every character receives a total of *874 X.P.*  Does that sound fair?  (BTW, if I have given out experience already, please let me know how much it was and when I did so.  This award may take the place of the previous award, or it may not, depending.)


----------



## Scotley

I have not recorded any exp. thus far. Halfway between fourth and fifth levels would give us a starting value of 8000 by my calculations so current total 8874.


----------



## rossrebailey

I updated RG with our XP in the same Reply that has our treasure.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

An excellent idea!


----------



## Scott DeWar

brilliant!!

for walking dad:

leuchtend !! (at least i hope that is right...)


----------



## Leif

Uhhh, WD is not in this game, btw.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> I have not recorded any exp. thus far. Halfway between fourth and fifth levels would give us a starting value of 8000 by my calculations so current total 8874.



  My calculations are the same as yours, Scotley.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Uhhh, WD is not in this game, btw.



so which game was it that we were talking about what country he is from?


----------



## Leif

As I recall, that was Kinem's Master of the Desert Nomads, but it may have been Scotley's Tomb of Horrors.  Come to think of it, you're not in Desert Nomads are you?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> As I recall, that was Kinem's Master of the Desert Nomads, but it may have been Scotley's Tomb of Horrors.  Come to think of it, you're not in Desert Nomads are you?



nope ...  had enough of deserts fron '82 to '85. it would have to be tomb of horrors (Scotley), where Harrison bentz just lost 5 gold to fin.


----------



## Scott DeWar

free xenon said:
			
		

> Are we free to put each other's spells in our books or....






Leif said:


> No.  Do that in character, but in the OOC thread.  That way, if someone doesn't want to share a certain spell for whatever reason, he/she doesn't have to.  And if it's done in the OOC thread, then it won't get in the way of the story.
> 
> So, the politically correct, accepted way to proceed is for you to select one of your companions, and say something like, "Hey, buddy, I've got this really cool spell that you might like.  Want to do some spell trading?"
> 
> And we'll assume that this is all done outside the regular campaign timeline also, so you can have it done before losing access to Academy supplies.  (Unless, you just WANT to pay for it....)




i would like to maybe start doing this, but as it costs 100 gp per level of spell being written, i was wondering where the swag list is to see if i have enough to start doing this?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar,

If you're talking about the running list of group treasure, it is the first post in the RG.  If you're talking about funky 60's hanging chain lamps, then I have no idea.

And that quote by Free Xenon was from an earlier incarnation of this game, but my answer still applies.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:


> i would like to maybe start doing this, but as it costs 100 gp per level of spell being written, i was wondering where the swag list is to see if i have enough to start doing this?



Well considering that our Ogre encounter netted us the equivalent of about 170 gp and has yet to be split up between us, I don't think it will help much. The post containing the treasure we have gotten is in the Rogue's Gallery, last post. 

By the way Leif. We are 1,126 xp away from next level, but we still have about 3,400 gp to gain as well, each. I'm assuming that most of it will come from the Hobgoblin adventure but I just wanted to make sure you knew about how much to give us. You could, however, always give us more. I'm sure we wouldn't mind.


----------



## Leif

Where'd you come up with that 3,400gp figure, Kerlan?  Treasure is (and always will be, imho) the province of the DM alone.  The only rough gauge for that is in the rules for creating characters above first level, but that is certainly not a hard and fast rule.  The treasure that you find depends upon the module, not me.  I do have some leeway here and there, though.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Where'd you come up with that 3,400gp figure, Kerlan?  Treasure is (and always will be, imho) the province of the DM alone.  The only rough gauge for that is in the rules for creating characters above first level, but that is certainly not a hard and fast rule.  The treasure that you find depends upon the module, not me.  I do have some leeway here and there, though.



Well, I did look at the wealth by level table to find it. I figured that it would be at least clost to that amount. I mean we started with wealth for 4th level characters but are almost 5th level and have only gained about 27 gold pieces. Of course the final say is up to you, but a group of wizards is very dependent on gold, even if for scribing costs alone.


----------



## renau1g

I'm very dependent on my spellcasting for survival...  just kidding, gold makes the world go 'round

I know I've run modules where the group has chosen different paths and ended up with less treasure than the suggestion from the DMG, but it all works out.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> Well, I did look at the wealth by level table to find it. I figured that it would be at least clost to that amount. I mean we started with wealth for 4th level characters but are almost 5th level and have only gained about 27 gold pieces. Of course the final say is up to you, but a group of wizards is very dependent on gold, even if for scribing costs alone.




Well, actually, your only combat so far has been the fight with the Ogre that was just a wandering monster.  Not sure about 3.5, but in 1ed. the rule was that wandering monsters never had any treasure at all, so by that standard you're already ahead of the game.  The thing to remember is that you have not even had one set/planned encounter with any of the monsters from the module yet.  So it's a bit premature to begin preaching to the dm about how stingy he's being.  (And I'm not certain about how evenly the treasure is distributed throughout the module, but I do know that, overall, you stand to come out pretty well.  But, again, in the interests of boosting player satisfaction, I won't delay the rewards until the end of the module.)

But, having said that, your prayers, pleas, and supplications have been heard.  Fear not, Gentle Flock, DM will take care of you.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> But, having said that, your prayers, pleas, and supplications have been heard.  Fear not, Gentle Flock, DM will take care of you.



Thank you (Dungeon) Master! We hear and obey! 

If I may ask, does the module entail everything that we heard in the rumors? Or is that several modules you have planned?

EDIT: Also, have you thought about whether you will change any treasure in the module? They are generally made for a standard party of four, not an all wizard party of six. It may be that some of the items are of no use to us. It's up to you however.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> [If I may ask, does the module entail everything that we heard in the rumors? Or is that several modules you have planned?



Hmmmm, you don't know about the accuracy of the rumors, do you?  Guess you'll just have to wait and see.  Nice try, though. 

And, uh, about the other thing, I have DMed before ya know.  I don't think it's necessary for you to try to hold my hand through the entire process.


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> I don't think it's necessary for you to try to hold my hand ...




At least until you get to know each other better...


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> At least until you get to know each other better...



No offense intended, but Kerlan just ain't my type.  Too many y chromosomes, not enough x's.


----------



## Leif

*Observed Weirdness to Ponder*

Scotley and I have been discussing the pluses/minuses of 3.5 v. 4.0 v. Pazo's Pathfinder lately, and I think we've both reached the conclusion that there's just no good substitute for 3.5.  But, having said that, there are, indeed, a few quirks about 3.5 that are just plain ........................ weird.

For example: Arcane casters get more of the cool spells, and Divine casters get more of the restorative spells.  But what about Bards?  They are, nominally at least, arcane casters, and yet they have access to cure spells.  This raises the question, in my mind at least, why, since Bards have obviously perfected an arcane _Cure Light Wounds_ (for example), couldn't wizards do likewise?  Gee, if only I knew of a group of wizards to do some research into this problem.......

And another thing:  If you find an arcane scroll or arcane wand of _Cure Light_, your Wizard supposedly can't use it (unless he uses the "Use Magic Item" skill) because the spell doesn't appear on his class spell list.  How cruddy!  But most bards don't have spare feats to waste on item creation stuff.  Also very weird.  (But NOT weird enough to make me like 4ed!)


----------



## renau1g

Hmmm...... well I can't say I agree with you 100% on the edition argument (and don't wish to start that debate here  ), but I always wondered why the CLW showed up on the Arcane spell list in the DMG.


----------



## Leif

Yep, that was where I first noticed it, too:  on the list of arcane scrolls in the DMG.  I thought, COOL, my wizard can cast cures now!  No such luck.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> For example: Arcane casters get more of the cool spells, and Divine casters get more of the restorative spells.  But what about Bards?  They are, nominally at least, arcane casters, and yet they have access to cure spells.  This raises the question, in my mind at least, why, since Bards have obviously perfected an arcane _Cure Light Wounds_ (for example), couldn't wizards do likewise?  Gee, if only I knew of a group of wizards to do some research into this problem.......
> 
> And another thing:  If you find an arcane scroll or arcane wand of _Cure Light_, your Wizard supposedly can't use it (unless he uses the "Use Magic Item" skill) because the spell doesn't appear on his class spell list.  How cruddy!  But most bards don't have spare feats to waste on item creation stuff.  Also very weird.  (But NOT weird enough to make me like 4ed!)



A Wizard and a Bard can work together to make wand of Arcane Cure Light Wounds. The Bard could provide the spell and the Wizard could provide the feat. 

We can get items to help with curing. A Healing Belt from the MIC for 750 gp, an Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds from the MIC for 820 gp, and a Magic Bedroll from the MIC which doubles healing while you sleep for 500 gp. These items are in my future plans for Kerlan. 

There are other options as well. Wizards can use the Arcan Disciple feat to add the Healing doman to their spell list, but they can only use each spell once a day. This will let them make and use cure Wands and Scrolls however. We could also buy a wand of Lesser Vigor for 750 gp. It would get us 11 hp of healing for each charge. It's usable by a Druid so we're good to go. An Amulet of Retributive Healing from the MIC for 2,000 gp will heal the wearer for the same amount of HP that they heal on someone else 3/day. If they use ant spell, ability or item to heal, say 15 hp, they get healed that same amount, 3/day. 

By the way, can we combine magic items? Maybe even Crus can give us a little insight into how it can be done, while we do all the actual work of course.


----------



## Leif

Interesting stuff, Kerlan.  These are all possibilities.

About the combining of Wizard and Bardic magic to make a cure wand -- hmmm, guess you'll just have to try and see, won't you? 

I recommend doing some exensive research before you spend much gold and xp, though.  But you already know a bard that you might be able to interest in the project, don't you?


----------



## Scott DeWar

> This raises the question, in my mind at least, why, since Bards have obviously perfected an arcane Cure Light Wounds (for example), couldn't wizards do likewise? Gee, if only I knew of a group of wizards to do some research into this problem.......
> 
> And another thing: If you find an arcane scroll or arcane wand of Cure Light, your Wizard supposedly can't use it (unless he uses the "Use Magic Item" skill) because the spell doesn't appear on his class spell list. How cruddy! But most bards don't have spare feats to waste on item creation stuff. Also very weird. (But NOT weird enough to make me like 4ed!)




just for the record, i have been runnign a pathfinder ogl alpha release 3 game and like it very very much. what i like most is that it is free. secondly is the fact that it is convetable to and from 3.5. i have moral objections to 4.0.

as for the research thing, i think that would require gold pieces, right?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> just for the record, i have been runnign a pathfinder ogl alpha release 3 game and like it very very much. what i like most is that it is free. secondly is the fact that it is convetable to and from 3.5. i have moral objections to 4.0.
> as for the research thing, i think that would require gold pieces, right?



Presumably, yes, it would.
What, exactly, are your moral objections to 4.0?  I need another reason to dislike it!


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> But you already know a bard that you might be able to interest in the project, don't you?



Uhh, I do? Who? 







KerlanRayne said:


> By the way, can we combine magic items? Maybe even Crus can give us a little insight into how it can be done, while we do all the actual work of course.



What about this? Would it require research? How much would it cost? The MIC lets you combine items with a +50% cost added to the less expensive item. For example, combining two different magic bedrolls, or two different amulets. Would that +50% include the research cost or would it be on top of that?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Presumably, yes, it would.
> What, exactly, are your moral objections to 4.0?  I need another reason to dislike it!




Danger! edition flame warning! do not read if you will be offened!
[sblock=flame on!]i believe in capitalism. not greed, capitalism. 4.0 was greed. 3.5 was too, but i had to capitulate to continue gaming with humans. the problem was that 3.5 needs fixing and not replacing. 4.0 was a replacement to sell new books for a new version that could have done just as good if it had been a forward and reverse compatable gaming system, like pathfinder is. further more the control freaks at wotc decided to make things difficult and sel the 4.0 ogl at a rather prohibitive price and discontinue the piazo contract just because they wanted it all. now they will get none of my money. if they had not been so greedy maybe i would have eventually went 4.0. now, i will forever resist them, verbally and electronically.
[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> Uhh, I do? Who? What about this? Would it require research? How much would it cost? The MIC lets you combine items with a +50% cost added to the less expensive item. For example, combining two different magic bedrolls, or two different amulets. Would that +50% include the research cost or would it be on top of that?



I think it was Max that made more of an impression on the bard back in Boris Stenker's Lonesome Drake Inn in Pembrose.  As best I recall, his name is Elwynn.

If the rules for this are already set in an approved book, like MIC, then you already have your answer, don't you?   Research should only be necessary for truly novel and untried things.  If there's already a price set in a published source, then that is a pretty good indication that it's been done before, and someone from Whirtlestaffs just probably had a hand in it, too.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Danger! edition flame warning! do not read if you will be offened!
> [sblock=flame on!]i believe in capitalism. not greed, capitalism. 4.0 was greed. 3.5 was too, but i had to capitulate to continue gaming with humans. the problem was that 3.5 needs fixing and not replacing. 4.0 was a replacement to sell new books for a new version that could have done just as good if it had been a forward and reverse compatable gaming system, like pathfinder is. further more the control freaks at wotc decided to make things difficult and sel the 4.0 ogl at a rather prohibitive price and discontinue the piazo contract just because they wanted it all. now they will get none of my money. if they had not been so greedy maybe i would have eventually went 4.0. now, i will forever resist them, verbally and electronically.
> [/sblock]




[sblock=happy smoldering]Thank you for putting into words my unspoken fears!  I wonder how much all of this was because of WotC being bought out by Milton Bradley, if it was at all?[/sblock]

[sblock=WotC Flame Warning]It's going to be funny watching WotC commit corporate suicide over the next ten years or so.  There has been, and is, such a backlash over 4Ed, and before that, WotC was the pretty much undisputed Champeen of the RPG industry.  Now, they have sown the seeds of the opening up of the market to new cotenders.  Perhaps this is all just a part of their cunning plan to spur the industry to reach new heights of profit and price through more robust competition?  I dunno, maybe not...[/sblock]


----------



## KerlanRayne

Hey! It's my Birthday. Today I am 30 years old. What, oh glorious DM, did you get me as a present? Gold pieces will work nicely.


----------



## Leif

Happy Birthday, Kerlan!!


*jingle, jingle* *shuffle* *jingle*


[counting out copper pieces]  ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR.......


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Happy birthday, Kerlan!


----------



## Scott DeWar

hmmm, 30 eh? I woinder if i can remember that far back...

well reguardless: Happy 30th birthday Kerlan!


----------



## renau1g

Happy Birthday!


----------



## rossrebailey

Hippo Birdie, Kerlan!!


----------



## Leif

*Attention wizards!*

Not to alarm anyone, but I just opened us a Campaign Thread in the Campaign section of invisible castle.  Feel free to register/log-in there and post to the thread.  We're not officially moving, or anything, at least not yet.  I'm not yet convinced that they can equal the tools here for things like attaching maps and stuff, and the appearance of ENWorld is definitely superior.  But I think it is nice to have a choice in these matters.  Just look for the Whirtlestaffs thread in the Campaign Section of Invis. Castle.  My user name there is "Yrel."

Whirtlestaffs thread is up and running at invisible castle now.  Note that passwords there are case sensitive!  (Gets me every time!)


----------



## renau1g

Done


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

renau,

Manny's text is Sandy Brown, but I'm not at all proprietary about it - if that's the color that suits your character, Manny's more than happy to share with a fellow wizard!


----------



## renau1g

Xavier\s is  regular brown... I just keep forgetting that.


----------



## Scotley

Tylara likes Teal


----------



## Scott DeWar

I seem to have a setting off somewhere on/in my computer, so everyone shows as black. y'll mind if i choose black?


----------



## renau1g

nope... and YAY enworld is back


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:


> I seem to have a setting off somewhere on/in my computer, so everyone shows as black. y'll mind if i choose black?



Umm, the background is black. We wouldn't be able to read it.


----------



## Leif

You guys have it so easy!  You just pick one color and stick with it.  I have to keep about a hundred npcs using consistent colors.  I may give up on that soon, and switch to a system where the FIRST npc is always the same color no matter who it is, the SECOND is always the same, and so forth.  That could get a bit confusing if the same two npcs were in two consecutive posts and they both spoke, but in the opposite order.  hmmmmmmm......


----------



## renau1g

You could always use *BOLD*... it's boring and confusing though if 2 NPC's are talking...


----------



## Leif

HEY!! That's a thought!  I could just have NPCs talk to each other ALL the time!  DnD without players! I'm a genuis!!  j/k


----------



## renau1g

Well... it would make sure they followed the adventure you had planned  

*shakes his fist at all those players of mine who ignore all those hooks I leave for them and instead decide a barfight is more of a good time than adventuring*


----------



## Scott DeWar

Well, the default must show up as black for me and white for you, so let me rephrase:

Mind if i use *default text color*?

also, renau1g,

Barfights are bad?


----------



## renau1g

Scott DeWar said:


> also, renau1g,
> 
> Barfights are bad?




No, I actually enjoy them, but as the PC's are supposed to be a cut above an average person, (especially in 4e) they can trounce any NPC they encounter (except for a few rare higher level ones). 

Also, they always pick the fights, for no other reason than to beat up common folks, despite their Good alignment and then chalk it up to Roleplaying.... 

Then the one who always starts the fights complains about the lack of XP, despite my repeated discussions with him that beating up an NPC is not enough of a challenge to really earn XP.... It is fun and we laugh a lot as I try to make the encounters interesting, but it can be frustrating that they ignore the adventure you spent hours on, which is why I mostly only use premade adventures (I'm running KoTS currently, which they started a fight there shortly after arriving in town, but do to their excellent diplomacy checks they managed to avoid getting tossed into the slammer )


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> (I'm running KoTS currently,  ... edit ...




what is KoTS?


----------



## Leif

KotS is Keep on the Shadowfell, the new 4ed module


----------



## KerlanRayne

If I want to talk to the other players about copying spells and making magic items, can I do that OOC or would you prefer that IC?


----------



## Leif

I presume that your question is in reference to my request early on in the game that all of those spell-trading things be done IC.  I still stand by that ruling FOR THE TIME WHEN IT WAS MADE.  But now I feel like I know the characters and players much better than I did at that time, so it's not as important that it be IC.

But, if you need supplies, ink, parchment, etc. for copying spells, then you need to obtain the supplies IC.  Once you have enough supplies, feel free to arrange the trades OOC, and we'll assume that you do all of the actual copying in your down time.  Don't forget to post your Spellcraft rolls, too!  Hey, your Collegiate Wizard Feat gives you a bonus on Spellcraft checks, doesn't it?  It should, anyway.


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> KotS is Keep on the Shadowfell, the new 4ed module




Yuppers, my group made the blind leap into 4e... it was fun the 1st session...mostly because all we did was RP (except the barfight  ), so I've yet to see the rules in RL action, although next game we'll see (Next weekend).


----------



## Leif

I'm interested to hear what your group's opinion of 4e is after you play it.  So far, just reading if hasn't impressed me too much, and I'm perfectly happy to keep playing 3.5/Pathfinder.  What's your character, renau1g?


----------



## renau1g

All of them...at least the NPC's  I'm DM'ing the game, we have Tiefling Paladin (played by my wife, great RP'er),a half-elven warlock, an elven ranger, focusing on two weapon fighting, and a TBD character who missed the first game and has yet to decide on a concept. 

I'll let you know my thoughts after the next session as they were just about to go and travel to the kobold's caves/hideout. I read through the module and it seems like there's a lot of emphasis on pushes, etc. in combat, forcing that point home.


----------



## Leif

Your wife.  Is one.  Of your players.  Too cool, man!  You must be the luckiest man on the planet!


----------



## KerlanRayne

I was thinking about making magic items for the other players at 75% of market price. If they could help me with an item by supplying something I don't have, they could get it at 50%. What do you all think?


----------



## Scott DeWar

KerlanRayne said:


> I was thinking about making magic items for the other players at 75% of market price. If they could help me with an item by supplying something I don't have, they could get it at 50%. What do you all think?



I like the idea. but first we may need to find a good hidy hole to set up a lab or something, right? or does 3.x ed do magic creation a bit looser then 2.x ed?


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> Your wife.  Is one.  Of your players.  Too cool, man!  You must be the luckiest man on the planet!




That's why I married her , but seriously she loves the game, she gets more into character than most of the guys I've played with for 10+years. 

The guys were hesitant at first because one of the others tried to bring his GF and it was a fiasco (she insisted on buying an axegun instead of a bow...WTF?), but it's worked out well. 

I ran a solo game with her controlling 2 PC's (A bard/fighter and a wizard) and I played an NPC cleric. We played through the Shackled City Adventure Path from Paizo together... it was a blast.


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> That's why I married her , but seriously she loves the game, she gets more into character than most of the guys I've played with for 10+years.
> 
> The guys were hesitant at first because one of the others tried to bring his GF and it was a fiasco (she insisted on buying an axegun instead of a bow...WTF?), but it's worked out well.
> 
> I ran a solo game with her controlling 2 PC's (A bard/fighter and a wizard) and I played an NPC cleric. We played through the Shackled City Adventure Path from Paizo together... it was a blast.




Hey, does your wive have any female rleltives or friends that are unmarried that are gamers like her? Preferably here in missouri?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> I like the idea. but first we may need to find a good hidy hole to set up a lab or something, right? or does 3.x ed do magic creation a bit looser then 2.x ed?



I don't know how 2.x worked, but in 3.5, you just need the appropriate Item Creation Feat and whatever spells are listed as necessary in the description of the item.  Well, that, plus a good workspace and plenty of money.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Hey, does your wive have any female rleltives or friends that are unmarried that are gamers like her? Preferably here in missouri?




Or in Arkansas, even?


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> I don't know how 2.x worked, but in 3.5, you just need the appropriate Item Creation Feat and whatever spells are listed as necessary in the description of the item.  Well, that, plus a good workspace and plenty of money.




Don't forget to bring your XP...


----------



## renau1g

Scott DeWar said:


> Hey, does your wive have any female rleltives or friends that are unmarried that are gamers like her? Preferably here in missouri?






Leif said:


> Or in Arkansas, even?




Unfortunately not, one in South Carolina, but I'm thinking it's too far away.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> I don't know how 2.x worked, but in 3.5, you just need the appropriate Item Creation Feat and whatever spells are listed as necessary in the description of the item.  Well, that, plus a good workspace and plenty of money.






			
				renau1g said:
			
		

> Don't forget to bring your XP...




money i understand, Xp i have read up on...what is required for workspace? in 2.x you needed a laboratory and libary of a minimum size each and both very very costly.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:


> money i understand, Xp i have read up on...what is required for workspace? in 2.x you needed a laboratory and library of a minimum size each and both very very costly.





			
				3.5 SRD said:
			
		

> The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items.



This is all is says as far as I know. Can anyone find something different?


----------



## Leif

*Item Creation Feats*

The description of each item creation feat also says what you need in the way of "raw materials," which are expressed as a cost in gold pieces.  For example, for Craft Wand, you need to spend one-twenty-fifth of the wand's gold piece value in XP, and "use up raw materials costing one-half of the base price."  Wands that store a spell requiring an expensive material component have an additional cost for this, also.  You have to use up one spell's worth of the component for each charge that the wand contains (50).

Aside from this raw materials cost, I see no other requirements in PH.  *BUT, the DMG (p. 282-283) says:*  "The creator also needs a fairy quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work.  Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making magic items."  During an item's creation, the creator may only work for 8 hours per day, but the days of an items creation need not all be consecutive.  So you can work on an item for awhile, take a break to explore a dungeon, then come back and pick up where you left off with the item.  And you can only create one item at a time.  If you are creating an item, and before you are finished you begin to work on a dfferent item, then all of the costs (both gp and xp) spent on the frst item are wasted.

So, yeah, Kerlan, you have it right.


----------



## Scott DeWar

sounds simple enough


----------



## Scott DeWar

Re: taking the keep back from the Hobgoblins

sorry all, i just need to let you all know this about capizzio and his wishes/wants/happy place

he is a free spirit. he would not want to receive a commision in the local army as part of payment. 

he is a rogue, a wizard and a former orphan. he is all for the idea of fighting off bullies, but the idea of owing allegence to any but the acadamy and his friends is way not his style.


----------



## renau1g

Agreed. Xavier has little desire to work as a regular in an imperial army, even if it a special commision. He would rather spend time on his own research efforts, than have to worry about being pulled away for a military invasion, or to repel invaders.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Re: taking the keep back from the Hobgoblins
> Capizzio is a rogue, a wizard and a former orphan. he is all for the idea of fighting off bullies, but the idea of owing allegence to any but the acadamy and his friends is way not his style.



"Former" orphan?? Did he outgrow it??


----------



## Leif

Cool new avatar, renau1g, is that a "Predator"??


----------



## renau1g

yeah.... I've been toying with what avatar to go with.... Ralph Wiggum was fun for a bit, and the "E3 makes me Sad" kitty was just ok (too small to read though).

Edit: Yeah Capizzio's a former orphan - he's part of the wizard family (our group  )


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> "Former" orphan?? Did he outgrow it??




technically he was adopted, but in his heart he will always remember the streets, the wrongs done to him and friends, allies himself with other orphans and outcasts (read wizards, thanks rena1g!), Ya know?


----------



## Leif

Yeah, I know.  It just seemed like it might be worth a yuk or two to give you a hard time about it today. *sigh* It wasn't satisfying at all, though! 

Anyway, getting back to the subject of a previous post about the need for a laboratory to create magic items, the SRD has this to say:

"Raw Materials Cost
The cost of creating a magic item equals one-half the sale cost of the item. 

Using an item creation feat also requires access to a laboratory or magical workshop, special tools, and so on. 
A character generally has access to what he or she needs unless unusual circumstances apply."  

So, I guess we'll assume that, for purposes of this campaign, the characters have received the training and tools necessary from the Academy.  (If you have the right item creation feat, that is.)


----------



## renau1g

I wonder what tools would let you make magical items? I can't envision a simple hammer or other mundane implements allowing the creation of a horn of blasting.... but then again wizards are just dripping with magical energies, maybe they don't need tools (besides their minds).


----------



## Leif

For a _Horn of Blasting_, I would imagine that all the usual metalworking tools would be needed, a furnace, perhaps molds for certain parts, and things like that.  That's just off the top of my head, though, so it may not be worth the electrons making up these letters on your screen!


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Re: taking the keep back from the Hobgoblins
> 
> sorry all, i just need to let you all know this about capizzio and his wishes/wants/happy place
> 
> he is a free spirit. he would not want to receive a commision in the local army as part of payment.
> 
> he is a rogue, a wizard and a former orphan. he is all for the idea of fighting off bullies, but the idea of owing allegence to any but the acadamy and his friends is way not his style.



So make Lord Kyle a Counteroffer?


----------



## rossrebailey

Leif said:


> For a _Horn of Blasting_, I would imagine that all the usual metalworking tools would be needed, a furnace, perhaps molds for certain parts, and things like that.  That's just off the top of my head, though, so it may not be worth the electrons making up these letters on your screen!




I recall (but can't get to source material right now) that magic armor and weapons must be of high-quality workmanship and concomitant price.  I would think the same would go for horns, etc.  Unless you want your character to be a jack-of-all-trades, I would assume you would start by finding someone to sell you a well-crafted, but non-magical, horn.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Items to be enchanted must be of masterwork quality to start with.


----------



## renau1g

Wands too? "I'll take 5 masterwork sticks please"


----------



## Scotley

Tylara will go with the group decision on the military commissions. She would accept left to her own devices, but I doubt she'd make a good officer.


----------



## Leif

I don't think there has been a GROUP decision yet, just two nays that I'm aware of.  Care to put it to a vote?


----------



## renau1g

I vote against it


----------



## Scott DeWar

I, as i am sure every one can guess, am against the military commission, and think we should get more gold and somone else with ranks in diplomacy should do the talking, not a hot headed 'blood thirsy' capizzio. i also think we should get at least 400 firm, maybe 100 as a town credit.


----------



## Leif

I have made an experimental change to my "Holding the Charge" ruling.  See,
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=229915.  Now, you may hold a charge until you either cast another spell, or prepare spells from your spellbook.  Either of these activities causes the charge to be released.  Comments?  Criticism?


----------



## Leif

*Holding the Charge*

And there's already been another change, thanks to suggestion from another EnWorlder!


----------



## KerlanRayne

Sorry about ratting out Tylara over the tattoo spell. I just happened to look at how much money everyone has while thinking about working together on magic items and scribing spells. Seems like Kerlan and Max are the only ones with enough money to do anything. 

Here are my thoughts on the raid. It might be best to take them on at night and possibly catch most of them asleep. Maybe shoot any sentries from afar with crossbows and sneak inside. We will be outnumbered so spells like _Caltrops _and _Web _will keep a lot of them busy while we take them out with crossbows. We don't have much in the way of area damage, but a _Web _+ Fire = damage to everyone inside. 

I had thought about buffing up Max with _Mage Armor_, _Shield_, and a quarterstaff with _Shillelagh_ on it. _Enlarge Person _would be nice but we don't have that spell. _Alter Self _would also be nice for any one of us, but we don't have that spell either. 

We might be able to use Tylara's familiar to scout out the place. It can look at any outside guards, maybe watch them in the courtyard if there is one. We could also get an Owl to scout for us usiong some Druid spells. _Charm Animal _and _Speak with Animals_ would work well. 

When we prepare for this we can memorize spells from each other's spellbooks. Doing so only requires a a Spellcraft check of 15 + spell level. Since we can take 10, we should succeed automatically. 

What does everyone think? Sorry about the long post.


----------



## renau1g

Only downside with the night attack is that we lack darkvision...and they have it (I think, but not sure if my PC would know that). I'm thinking a few protection from arrows spells would be great as well?  Grease and Glitterdust (I don't have it though) are also effective AoE spells. Also, Xavier's familiar is a Raven so it can help as well, and speak as well. 

I think it sounds like a good plan


----------



## Scotley

At least Tylara has low light vision, so she's not afraid of the dark. Her familiar would make an excellent scout for this. We do need some area of effect spells. Ice knife has some area effect, but not much.


----------



## renau1g

Xavier has web and grease, but no damaging spells. He has a scroll of Hail of Stone that we could scribe, but I think the damage is pretty low...


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Manny also has low light vision, and can make 'Continual Light' lanterns for all if we wait a few days (or could make just a couple - 1/day).  Don't know why I didn't specify he was doing that prior to now, as I recall someone suggesting that very thing early on in the game.

While he doesn't have the class levels everyone else does, he could also serve very well as a scout (Rogue class and Tiny size = +13 to Hide skill) either prior to moving on the keep or during our advance room to room.

Leif, I'll be making a slight change to his memorized spells - taking 'Expeditious Retreat' in place of 'Rouse.'  I'll make the change on the character sheet as well, but in case I don't get to it prior to engagement (or forget to do so) this is my intent.


----------



## Leif

So noted for Manny.


----------



## KerlanRayne

I didn't think about Darkvision. Well Xavier and Tylara can scout with their familiars. Go ahead and start that. Manny might even be able to ride on Tylara's eagle, the sizes are right. We need to look for total numbers, number of guards, anything similar to a shaman, and the general layout of the area. 

If we buff up Max he could be doing 3d6+4 damage minimum after _Enlarge Person _and _Shillelagh_, he can even flurry with it. Someone would have to scribe _Enlarge Person _into their spellbook, which Manny has a scroll of. Whoever scribes it can create a new scroll to replace it. If we can get _Alter Self _(maybe from Crus) then we can change into something with up to +6 Natural Armor. That plus _Mage Armor _and _Shield _would give Max an AC of 10 +6 NA +4 Armor +4 Shield +2 Monk = 26 AC. We could all do it together in one round and he would kick butt. It would only work if there is a courtyard to fight in though. 

Inside we could use _Web _to good effect. We use _Caltrops _to slow them down and get them to bunch up for the _Web_. A torch would do 2d4 points of damage to those inside. _Sleep _would help as well. I can memorize _Web _three times. 

The problem with spells like _Grease_, _Color Spray_, and _Glitterdust_ is that with the numbers we will be dealing with, we can't take out the disabled foes fast enough before more are on the way. 

Maybe Max can scribe _Enlarge Person _and I can scribe _Alter Self_. We have the money available and anyone who wants to memorize it can borrow our spellbooks for free. 

The low level characters can cast spells like _Mage Armor_ and _Sleep _which don't require a high caster level. 

Any other ideas? I know I'm repeating some of this, but I want to keep it all together. 

@Manny: If you don't plan on getting a familiar, you may want to try using the Immediate Magic Alternative Class Feature from the Player's Handbook 2. For Transmutation specialists it gives you a Fly, Swim, or Climb speed equal to your land speed for one round, INT Bonus times per day. Since we've just now started in the heart of the game Leif might still let you change it. Also, go ahead and make some Continual Torches. We need to scout out some and we should probably wait until Crus arrives before setting off.


----------



## Leif

Wow, you guys are some DEVIOUS wizards!  You're just going to spoil ALL my fun, aren't you?

Don't forget that the ph lists a Spellcraft DC specifically for memorizing a known spell from a "borrowed spellbook," so doing that is not a guaranteed success. 

I'll have to take a look at the Immediate Magic alternative class feature before I decide, but you've kinda waited AWHILE before asking.  And Mowgli still hasn't asked directly.  It's not like you've only had these characters for a week or anything......  (Still, I'm not slamming the door on the idea just yet.)


----------



## renau1g

Well... we wouldn't survive at Whirtlestaff's if we weren't devious no would we?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Wow, you guys are some DEVIOUS wizards!  You're just going to spoil ALL my fun, aren't you?
> 
> Don't forget that the ph lists a Spellcraft DC specifically for memorizing a known spell from a "borrowed spellbook," so doing that is not a guaranteed success.
> 
> I'll have to take a look at the Immediate Magic alternative class feature before I decide, but you've kinda waited AWHILE before asking.  And Mowgli still hasn't asked directly.  It's not like you've only had these characters for a week or anything......  (Still, I'm not slamming the door on the idea just yet.)



The spellcraft DC to memorize from a borrowed spellbook is 15 + Spell Level. That means that after taking 10 we only need a +7 max to succeed with a second level spell. 

As to the Immediate Magic idea, well it was just a suggestion. I said that you might let him but I know it's not a sure thing. It's the same alternative that I used, except that it's for a different specialization.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Disadvantage to not playing Wizards often (or only twice in a lifetime) - little awareness of options available.

Leif, if you would be so kind as to look at the Alternative package and let me know if it's available at this stage, I'm interested but not committed, as my original plan was to try and figure out a way to get a flying familiar large enough for Manny to ride.  You ruled that out early on for Manny as a first level wizard, but if you know of a way to do it somewhat later I'd still like to consider that option as well.

Manny will start cranking out Continual Lights (one/day) on whatever items party members wish them put on (just post a note here).


----------



## KerlanRayne

Mowgli said:


> my original plan was to try and figure out a way to get a flying familiar large enough for Manny to ride.  You ruled that out early on for Manny as a first level wizard, but if you know of a way to do it somewhat later I'd still like to consider that option as well.



OK, it was just a suggestion. You could possibly take Improved familiar to get a small Air Elemental at CL 5 which has a 100' perfect fly speed (COOL!). At CL 7 you might get an Air Mephit or maybe talk Leif into something similar. That's in core though, I'm not sure about other books.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Well... we wouldn't survive at Whirtlestaff's if we weren't devious now would we?



What makes you so sure that you will anyway??!!


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> Disadvantage to not playing Wizards often (or only twice in a lifetime) - little awareness of options available.
> 
> Leif, if you would be so kind as to look at the Alternative package and let me know if it's available at this stage, I'm interested but not committed, as my original plan was to try and figure out a way to get a flying familiar large enough for Manny to ride.  You ruled that out early on for Manny as a first level wizard, but if you know of a way to do it somewhat later I'd still like to consider that option as well.
> 
> Manny will start cranking out Continual Lights (one/day) on whatever items party members wish them put on (just post a note here).



Yeah, the alternative package thing slipped by us both.  WHOOOSH!  Sounds like you may have to make a choice between that and the flying familiar.  I remember, kinda, disallowing that at first level, but I'm not sure why.  I'll probably allow it now if you want to go that way.  And, like Kerlan said, if you take the alternative class feature, you can always select improved familiar as a future feat.  At this point, I can't get my brain around an air elemental beiing able to carry Manny (it just defies logic -- as if an ELEMENTAL doesn't do that anyway!), but the mephit thing is always a possibility.  But, regardless, we'll talk......


----------



## Leif

Mowgli:  Tell me again how you manage to cast _continual light_??  Starting level was 4, and Manny has a +2LA, and with a rogue level, that just makes him a first level wizard.  First level wizards can't cast second level spells.  Your intel. bonus 2nd level spell only kicks in if you can cast spells of that level anyway.  Am I forgetting something important?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> As to the Immediate Magic idea, well it was just a suggestion. I said that you might let him but I know it's not a sure thing. It's the same alternative that I used, except that it's for a different specialization.



I know.  It's all good.  Just messin' with you.


----------



## Scotley

I can't suggest much for flying familiars in the core rules or even the extended books by wizards before at least 5th level. Now if you can pitch Leif on the idea of a non-wizard's book--ENWorld publishing did what I consider to be a reasonable job on the subject, Dweomercraft: Familiars. That includes the following feat:

Summon Exceptional Familiar (General)
Prerequisite: Spellcaster 3rd level
The familiar represents a more unusual breed of animal that is not typical of familiars and may also grant benefits different than normal.
Familiars associated with this feat would be: Badger, Boar, Cheetah, Eagle, Leopard, Lizard, Monkey, or Wolf.

This would allow you to select a small flying animal such as an Eagle, Great Grey Owl or even a seagull. They offer only modest gains over regular familiars with the big advantages being that they are small rather than tiny so you could ride. This larger size gives them some advantages as well as disadvantages in combat.

The book includes much more advanced familiars as well, but they don't come until higher levels.


----------



## renau1g

Just followin' the status quo then eh?


----------



## Scotley

We could definitely make Max a monster if we all cast spells on him. We could do something similar with Tylara as an archer with arrow mind, targeting ray, guided shot, magic weapon, true strike, cats grace and various protective spells. 

However, I wonder if we might not be better served by letting Manny sneak in close and use sleep spells to take out the guards? I for one don't like the idea of storming a keep. Does anyone have invisibility?

Whelming Blast is decent area attack spell even though it only does non-lethal damage. It might be useful to share that one.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:


> Mowgli:  Tell me again how you manage to cast _continual light_??  Starting level was 4, and Manny has a +2LA, and with a rogue level, that just makes him a first level wizard.  First level wizards can't cast second level spells.  Your intel. bonus 2nd level spell only kicks in if you can cast spells of that level anyway.  Am I forgetting something important?





Yeah, one of the reasons Manny has a +2LA is because he can cast _Continual Flame, Dancing Lights, Mirror Image (3 images), Protection From Evil,_ and _Ventriloquism_ once/day each as a spell like ability.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> We could definitely make Max a monster if we all cast spells on him. We could do something similar with Tylara as an archer with arrow mind, targeting ray, guided shot, magic weapon, true strike, cats grace and various protective spells.
> 
> However, I wonder if we might not be better served by letting Manny sneak in close and use sleep spells to take out the guards? I for one don't like the idea of storming a keep. Does anyone have invisibility?
> 
> Whelming Blast is decent area attack spell even though it only does non-lethal damage. It might be useful to share that one.




sleep and whelming blast...those are giving me some tactile ideas... let me sleep on those.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scotley said:


> I can't suggest much for flying familiars in the core rules or even the extended books by wizards before at least 5th level. Now if you can pitch Leif on the idea of a non-wizard's book--ENWorld publishing did what I consider to be a reasonable job on the subject, Dweomercraft: Familiars. That includes the following feat:
> 
> Summon Exceptional Familiar (General)
> Prerequisite: Spellcaster 3rd level
> The familiar represents a more unusual breed of animal that is not typical of familiars and may also grant benefits different than normal.
> Familiars associated with this feat would be: Badger, Boar, Cheetah, Eagle, Leopard, Lizard, Monkey, or Wolf.
> 
> This would allow you to select a small flying animal such as an Eagle, Great Grey Owl or even a seagull. They offer only modest gains over regular familiars with the big advantages being that they are small rather than tiny so you could ride. This larger size gives them some advantages as well as disadvantages in combat.
> 
> The book includes much more advanced familiars as well, but they don't come until higher levels.




So these are basically regular familiars, but made from slightly larger versions of critters?  

What about it, Leif?  Could I take the alternative package for Wizard now, and take 'Summon Exceptional Familiar' at Wizard 3rd (or possibly wait for Wizard 6th and take Improved Familiar)?  A Great Grey Owl would be an excellent familiar for a Rogue type Wizard, I'm thinkin'.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Hey leif, I have noticed a slight problem with Capizzio's skills. I seem to have forgottent to put ranks in hide. could i take 1 rank from 3 skills and say he had that skill all along. there are some skills that he has not used that should be scavenged from, such as escape artist, balence and appraise?


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> So these are basically regular familiars, but made from slightly larger versions of critters?
> 
> What about it, Leif?  Could I take the alternative package for Wizard now, and take 'Summon Exceptional Familiar' at Wizard 3rd (or possibly wait for Wizard 6th and take Improved Familiar)?  A Great Grey Owl would be an excellent familiar for a Rogue type Wizard, I'm thinkin'.




I'd really rather that you didn't do the Exceptional Familiar, this time.  Not sure I want to adopt a rule like that.  Let's stick with stuff by Wizards for familiars, ok?  Waiting and taking Improved Familiar is cool, though.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Hey leif, I have noticed a slight problem with Capizzio's skills. I seem to have forgottent to put ranks in hide. could i take 1 rank from 3 skills and say he had that skill all along. there are some skills that he has not used that should be scavenged from, such as escape artist, balence and appraise?



Sure, go for it


----------



## KerlanRayne

Well I'm just putting out ideas, we don't have to use them. More ideas are welcome. 

I mentioned sneaking into the keep but I said at night, which might not be a good idea. We can try to sneak in during the day. I can use Sleep as well with my Beguiler spells. No one has invisibility yet. 

I have access to Whelm but not Whelming Blast yet. It seems pretty good as a 30' cone but the Will save negates kinda hurts. 

I don't think it's feasible to take them all alive. We would have to restrain them all with rope or manacles. Then we would have to figure out where to put them. I don't think we can just relocate them and I don't think Lord Kyle would want to put them in jail, he might not even have room.


----------



## Leif

OOC:  Ok, look, I'm sorry about the idea I've put in your heads that you need to be gentle with these hobgoblins.  It's just that I didn't want you to automatically assume that every opponent that you face is marked for instant death.  This isn't "Wild Kingdom," though, where you knock the hobgoblins out, tag their ears, and release them into the wild.

And if you show up with twenty hobgoblins in chains for Lord Kyle to take care of, he's NOT going to be a happy camper!


----------



## renau1g

Aww... but I just created all these tags.... 

Well I guess I can just kill them


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Aww... but I just created all these tags....




hehehe, well, if that's what you REALLY want to do....GO FOR IT!


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:


> Aww... but I just created all these tags....
> 
> Well I guess I can just kill them




Can't we re-purpose those ID tags as toe tags for the bodies?


----------



## renau1g

That's true... *whew* I didn't blow all those copper pieces we found for nothing than


----------



## Leif

Gosh!  Very many of those toe-tags and you'll eat through a significant portion of you total take from this excusion in no time! hehehehe


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## Scott DeWar

leif,

I have had an increase in work and i am in need of dropping a few games and i regret to inform you that of the two en world games that i am losing this is one of them. (I used invisible castle and assigned each game a number) <y table top game has suffered tremendoulsy as well and i need to do something drastic.

Perhaps capizzio sees someone from his past and later that night he is seen going to his room, but not coming out...not seen any where, not seen leaving...you know how rogues can be.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar,

I have a better idea.  (Just in case you are able to return at some point, and you will be very welcome to do so!)  Capizzio has been called back to Whirtlestaff's to take over immediately as assistant for a professor there.  He must leave at once!  Times a-wastin'!  No time for goodbyes or anything.  (We can make up something appropriate to explain his absence and later return if you decide to rejoin the game.)  

It's been great having you, man, and we all wish you the best!

Cheers,
Leif

ps-Honestly, though, any wizard worth his salt would have just whipped out a cantrip to affect the die roll on IC!


----------



## Scotley

Tylara is going to feel bad thinking it was the threat to Capizzio's toes that ran him off.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> Tylara is going to feel bad thinking it was the threat to Capizzio's toes that ran him off.



Yeah, that's it.  We'll all blame Tylara for this Wizard Attrition!


----------



## renau1g

Leif,

I know you mentioned that you were interested in my impressions of 4e after our groups first combats? 

That still the case?


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Leif,
> I know you mentioned that you were interested in my impressions of 4e after our groups first combats?
> That still the case?



ABSOLUTELY!! What's your verdict?


----------



## renau1g

Ok... so in a 2.5 hr. session we got through three encounters (keep in mind this is our first combat, outside of my limited experience here) I'll make 2 posts, 1 detailing the combats, and 2 with my thoughts.

Combat #1: Attempted ambush by a group of kobolds, including two dragonshields (fighter-types), 1 artillery, 1 leader (shaman), and 4 minions (1 hp each)

The elven ranger managed to roll a Natural 20 (this becomes a theme with him...) on his Perception rolls (which I like more than spot & listen as it speeds up the game slightly, I require each player roll one at a time, as I had some incidences of dice nudging, fudging by one of the players...).

The group (a ranger, warlock, and paladin) weren't surprised and the two strikers began lobbing ranged attacks at the enemies. The paladin charged forward to provide cover. They started off blowing out their encounter powers and destroyed the artillery kobold and damaging the shaman. The paladin was wielding a glaive, giving her reach and she used it to great effect (even though it doesn't threaten). The Paladin player struggled with why the at-will attacks were better than her basic attack, despite offering a minor bonus (in this case a -3 to foes attack rolls), but she quickly got the hang of things. They mowed through them pretty quick, despite the supposedly challenging battle.

We took a break, while I put the boys to bed, and they said that they found it interesting so far, but the warlock was upset because he kept missing...I recommended he try the powers that attack different defences (he kept using a power that hit against the kobolds Reflex)

Combat #2: 
This combat was just outside the kobold lair, behind a waterfall (and on a cliff) so the group was stealthy (except the Paladin) and they snuck to within striking distance. Again, they opened up with their encounter powers (and *2* Natural 20's in a row by the ranger) taking out the lookouts right next to the entrance.

The ranger then decided to try his blades out and the Warlock used his daily power during this encounter (to great effect) and used his ability to curse more often, gaining extra damage and temp. HP as a result. As well the Paladin fell more into her role and began marking the enemies, causing them to take damage if they avoided her.

***This point I was nervous about bookkeeping enemy statuses, in this case there were marked, cursed, on fire, and one was the ranger's quarry, but it was pretty easy, I keep track of enemy hp using Excel, so I just put a note next to them ***

Again, they were working pretty well together, but then the strikers stopped moving and were just hitting.... that's when things got bad... the ranger got ganged up on by a trio of kobolds (2 minions and 1 rogue) and very quickly fell unconscious (I also rolled 18's pretty consistenly for a while). Eventually he made his death save (Nat 20 again...... this time I checked the dice...just in case it was one of those cheating dice... but it was good), but it was tense as he failed it twice first and once more would've led to his death.

Combat 3: Inside the lair

This was the most difficult encounter and the group felt it as terrain came into great effect, with some pits, side entrances only small creatures could fit into. The group lacked any powers that could push enemies, so the terrain was pretty ineffectual and the last enemy had over 100hp. The Paladin hit him with his daily power and took out 1/4 of his hp, but after that and the encounter powers were done it fell into their at wills. 

The ranger continued his two attacks, the warlock used the same at-will, and the paladin the same...they won the day after a bit, and the paladin going unconscious.


----------



## renau1g

So in general, I like 4e, it's a nice change of pace and having those dailies in your back pocket to break out against a challenging foe is pretty nice. However, after using your encounter power (and action point to get a second attack) it quickly becomes an at-will battle, although the characters had 2 each, they leaned towards 1 more than the other.

I noted that movement is very important for the strikers to avoid getting surrounded and then pounded on. Minions are great fun because you can take on a dozen enemies so you feel more heroic, but it doesn't overwhelm them.

After the session the players & I spoke and we agreed that it was a good second adventure, but we wanted more time before we decided fully in support of it. They enjoyed that no one character seemed better than the other (as in 3e I found that the 1st level barbarian was more effective than the 1st level wizard in the average encounter)... as balance was a factor we were most looking forward to, it worked out.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Hey, are you still using Sylvanoptera? I know you talked about it the first game but I haven't seen anything after the restart. If not I need to add another language.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> Hey, are you still using Sylvanoptera? I know you talked about it the first game but I haven't seen anything after the restart. If not I need to add another language.



That's a very good question.  Yes, the language exists, and Whirtlestaff's is one of the few places around that teaches it (outside of the elvish commmunity, that is), but there is also the standard Draconic tradition of magic existing side-by-side with Sylvaoptera.  All students at Whirtlestaffs learn both methods/languages, so it's purely a matter of personal preference whether you use it or not.  For those who didn't play in the first Whirtlestaff's game, I suppose a word of explanation is in order, but you can probably guess the gist of it from this post.  Let me know what questions remain.


----------



## Leif

*Sylvanoptera*

Sylvanoptera is a language that is very closely related to archaic elvish.  While it developed about the same time as elvish, it was never in wide usage, but was, instead, reserved for use by Arcane Practitioners.  It fills the same basic role as Draconic as far as spells and such are concerned, but elvish arcanists use it instead of draconic as a general rule.


----------



## Leif

More Experience!

For your interaction with Lord Kyle and the other npcs of Pembrose, and for your making of plans to assault the hobgoblin keep, you each receive 180 xp.

That brings everyone's new total to = 9,054


----------



## Leif

Mowgli, not to complain or anything, but it is extraordinarily difficult for me to look at your character sheet that is saved as a .pdf.  I guess it's too much to hope for for you to be like most people and save your characters just as text on ENWorld?  Anyway, what I was wondering was, "just how big is Manny, anyway?"  Tylara is talking like having him on her shoulder is a neligible amount of weight, and I was thinking that he was a good 12-14 inches tall.  Seems like he'd weigh a good ten pounds at least.  Not heavy, by any means, but noticeable if sitting on your shoullder, or hanging from your arm.


----------



## renau1g

I wonder if Mike the Raven could carry him, if his weight is negligible , although with a STR of 1, even Bull's Str, wouldn't help.


----------



## Leif

Yeah, with _Bull's Strength_ cast on him, I bet Mike could soar all over the place with Manny aboard.  Might not be too secure, mind you.   Althought with a little creativity and ingenuity I'm sure that some wizards I know could devise a suitable saddle. 

And besides, Mike tells Xavier that he's not _about_ to try to take off with Manny aboard without _Bull's Strength_ being cast on him!


----------



## Leif

It just really sunk into my brain that we've only got four wizards who are actively playing now.  (Make that three and one-fifth.)  Capizzio, Kerlan, Tylara, and Manny.  Looks like Xavier and Max are MIA.  So that got me to thinking, would you guys possibly feel a bit better about taking on a keep full of hobgoblins if you had a meat shield or three along for the ride, too?  There are several ways we can handle this:  We can use npcs to help out, we can let one or more of you add a second pc or a cohort, or (and I'd really rather not do this last one) we can cast our net upon the ocean of ENWorld and recruit some.  Thoughts?  Ideas?  Whines?


----------



## Leif

I'm proably the last one to realize this, but:  INVISIBLE CASTLE'S back!!!!


----------



## renau1g

I'm MIA?

I just posted recently, I just can't post on weekends and had mentioned my two coppers a few times, I just didn't have anything to add.


----------



## Leif

Ok, sorry renau1g, yeah, I knew you were around, guess I had a brain cramp or something.  Actually, maybe I was thinking of someone else.  At any rate, sorry, dude!  Never minddd!


----------



## renau1g

Isn't it Capizzio who's left?

Edit: I wouldn't mind controlling another PC (if the others player's don't mind), and I'm indifferent about having an NPC help, but I just don't want to add more work for the DM.

I agree that recruitment might be the lowest on my desired response list.


----------



## Leif

Capizzio is one, but I would swear that we've been missing two latley.


----------



## Scotley

Can't speak for the others, but Tylara is still here. I'm up for whatever you'd like to do--co-horts, npc's second characters, new players or just taking our chances...


----------



## Leif

*That's One Vote...*

Okay, good!  This was kind of an experiment from the beginning, wasn't it?  Seems like it'd be kind of a shame to give up on it halfway through.  But, if there are other opinions, I'd still like to hear them.  What we could do is go ahead and try it with just wizards, and if you all die, we can write that off as a failed experiment, and if you still will even play with me at all, then we can roll-up a new party/use the same characters again, but with some muscle along for the ride next time.


----------



## renau1g

That sounds fun, and the most expedient method. Count me in!


----------



## Leif

This all got kinda confused/lost in translation, but the gist of what I got was that we're mostly all on board to take a stab at just having the wizards go it alone, and if that comes to a bad end, then we'll take stock and see where we are and where we want to go then.  So let's kill some hobgoblins!  I might not be able to do too much in that vein until the weekend, though.


----------



## KerlanRayne

I wouldn't mind controlling another character either. How many would we need? Would we be using the same books for them or expanded a little bit? We could also have you or someone else here take control of Max. rossrebailey hasn't been on in almost three weeks.

EDIT: Never mind. We are going to give it a shot first.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'm good to go as far as taking on the hobgoblins.  Since I really like Manny, my vote would be if we all die we use the same characters but beef up their levels a little.

About the .pdf's, I'm not sure I understand the difficulty.  The file should just open up for you, and the format of the sheet's just a modified version of all the other stock sheets out there.  Descriptions on the second page at the bottom - he's 15" tall and weighs in at a hefty 10 lbs.  It'd be a little like carrying a gallon of milk, so would indeed end up being a lot of work for a long walk.

Mike the Raven couldn't carry him - the mount's got to be at least one size category larger than the rider, and can carry only a light load while flying.  I think ravens are tiny (the same as Manny) and even a Bull's Strength would get his STR up only to 5 (light load of 8 pounds).

Thel could carry him, if both she and Tylara were willing and we had a saddle.

I actually have plans for an oversize owl familiar in the (hopefully) near future that should do the trick.  Doesn't help much right now, though . . .

Finally, thanks for the exp., oh great and benevolent DM!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'll be at the lake and out of touch from this afternoon through sometime Monday.  Y'all have a great weekend!


----------



## Leif

*Mowgliness*

Have a safe trip, safe boating or whatever, and lots of fun!  Oh, hey, I've been forgetting to tell you about this:  when we were all up there for the gaming retreat and we cleaned up after ourselves somewhat, I took one of those plastic wall-outlet safety stopper thingies out so that I could plug in the vaccuum sweeper.  I put the thing in my pocket for convenience.  And, llike a dummy, I forgot to put it back.  I think it's still on my dresser.

You know, seems to me now that I've told you all of this before.  I have the most peculiar feeling of deja vu.  I guess it's because you're always so danged nice that I feel the irrepressible urge to confess all of my failings to you.  Usually over and over and over again.  Hope you don't mind too much.


----------



## Leif

There are now pics of some of your Professors at Whirtlestaff's on my profile.  For those of you also in my/Scotley's Lauralie Summerhome game, yes, these same professors teach at the LCA.  (Ain't planar travel great?!)

Just touch each pic with your mouse icon to see the title of the pic.

And, in a separate album, there is a pic of Magus Crus.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Crus sighs and says, "Oh, all right then, Tylara, I'll teach you.  _This_ time.  Anyone else care to join the class?  Let's go upstairs and get to it then."
> OOC:  Anyone wishing to add _sleep_ to his/her spellbook can make a Spellcraft check with a +8 circumstance modifier.  If you already have _sleep_ and feel cheated by this, mention it to me in the OOC thread, and I'll make it right somehow.



Well Kerlan has _Sleep_ available from his Beguiler class but as a Wizard he has banned Enchantment spells. Being unable to learn _Sleep_ can I just pick another 1st level spell?
By the way how would this work? Would it be like scribing a spell without a scroll at just the 100gp cost? Or is it free?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> Well Kerlan has _Sleep_ available from his Beguiler class but as a Wizard he has banned Enchantment spells. Being unable to learn _Sleep_ can I just pick another 1st level spell?
> By the way how would this work? Would it be like scribing a spell without a scroll at just the 100gp cost? Or is it free?



It's free!  Pick out an alternate 1st level spell that you want, tell me in this thread, and we'll see about getting it done.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> It's free!  Pick out an alternate 1st level spell that you want, tell me in this thread, and we'll see about getting it done.



How about Nerveskitter from the Spell Compendium?


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> How about Nerveskitter from the Spell Compendium?



Sure, if that's the one that floats your boat!

Magus Crus will come by your room as soon as he finishes with Tylara.  You get the same +8 modifier to the Spellcraft roll to learn it the first time.  If you still don't succeed, all is not lost, just let me know.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> You get the same +8 modifier to the Spellcraft roll to learn it the first time.  If you still don't succeed, all is not lost, just let me know.



Well since the +8 bonus will give me a +21 to my roll, I don't see how I can fail. Here is my roll: Spellcraft roll to learn Nerveskitter (1d20+21=22). See, I rolled a 1 and still passed.


----------



## Leif

*Magus Crus*



KerlanRayne said:


> Well since the +8 bonus will give me a +21 to my roll, I don't see how I can fail. Here is my roll: Spellcraft roll to learn Nerveskitter (1d20+21=22). See, I rolled a 1 and still passed.



Crus is very pleased with Kerlan's facility with wizardry.  He saw Kerlan begin to misunderstand one of the Keys to the spell, but Kerlan's critical mind caught the error before in even landed on the page of his spellbook, and he quickly did some mental figuring and got the proper value for the Key.

"Ahh, if only I had such facile pupils back when I was a professor, then I might still be at Whirtlestaff's!  Very impressive, young man," says Magus Crus.

Crus is equally impressed with Tylara's demonstration of arcane aptitude.


----------



## Leif

OOC:  So that's one new spell for Tylara and one new spell for Kerlan.  Are we about ready to assault the Big Keep Full o' Nasties, then?


----------



## Scotley

Tylara is ready!


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scotley said:


> Tylara is ready!



Kerlan is ready too!


----------



## renau1g

Xavier is ready... I hope


----------



## KerlanRayne

renau1g said:


> Xavier is ready... I hope



Does Xavier want to learn _Sleep_ for free? I don't see it in his spellbook.


----------



## Leif

*Renau1g*

If Xavier doesn't want _Sleep_ for whatever reason, Kerlan has established a precedent for substiuting _Nerveskitter_ for it.  But you could also pick out a completely different first level spell if you want.  Crus is feeling generous at the moment.  You might want to take full advantage of it before someone curdles his ovaltine!


----------



## Leif

ha, ha, ha!!  renau1g took admirable steps to ensure that his wishes were followed:  he listed on his character sheet which spells Xavier ordinarily prepares each day.  So, if renau1g doesn't make an appearance on time, then we'll just assume that Xavier does indeed go with the party and that he has his usual spells prepared.  Problem solved!  And he still has one first level spell coming, too.


----------



## Leif

Hey Scotley, I just found out that gnome pcs are covered by  4e rules!  Look in the Monster Manual on page 276, and you'll see a section for making "monster" pcs.  Gnomes are the last entry on page 277.   Interestingly enough, 4e Gnomes have the same racial ability adjustments as Doppelgangers.  Go figure!  But these are not your Grandma's Gnomes:  4e Halflings are actually closer to 3.5 Gnomes than  4e Gnomes are.


----------



## Scotley

Yes, I've seen the Gnomes. As you say they aren't quite the same. But most of the other races aren't either. It will be interesting to see what the full write up looks like.


----------



## Scotley

Hey, I just noticed that 4e Living EnWorld is now open for business and you can play the MM races. So here's your chance to try a Gnome 4e style if you are interested. 

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talkin...ost-thread-updated-4-25-a-18.html#post4462122


----------



## Leif

Yeah, I know.  LEW was what prompted me to check our the 4e MM the other night.  I really thought about doing it, but I just don't think I'm ready for another new game right now.  Good idea, though, thanks.


----------



## renau1g

I'm back! and yeah gnomes are a lot more mysterious and shadow-y now... less inventive and curious, more like the eberron gnomes I found.


----------



## Leif

And 4e halflings are a bit taller than they were before, and truthfully, seem to be a combination of the gnomes and halflings of previous editions.  At least, that's the feeling that I get.


----------



## renau1g

Sleep sounds good to me, I'll updated Xavier's prepped spells and post here shortly.


Spells Memorized are:

0 - Daze*(x3), Detect Magic, Mage Hand
1st - Grease, Ray of Clumsiness, Charm Person*, Lesser Orb of Electricity, Sleep
2nd - Web, Glitterdust(x2), Tasha's Hideous Laughter*


----------



## Leif

Ok, I did a little snooping around...you'd be amazed what you can learn from going to a moderator's profile and reading his posts!  Anyway, there is evidently a "button" on the first page of a thread to nominate the thread for whatever this award dealy is.  More info will be provided as it is learned, I guess.  Stay tuned....

Yep, the Nomination Button is in the first (oldest) post of a thread.  It's the button in color in the lower right hand corner.  It doesn't say what it's for that I can tell, but it works.  I just nominated "Scotley's Tomb of Horrors" for whatever this is about.


----------



## Leif

Wow, I just read this entire thread again from the beginning.  I learned a few things:  1.  I need psychiatric help.  2.  My players in this game are the most magnanimous people on the planet for putting up with me.

Thanks, guys!


----------



## Scotley

I always figured playing this game was a substitute for going to a psychiatrist.


----------



## Leif

Nice thought.  Think it's working??


----------



## renau1g

You read the entire thread?!?! Impressive...


----------



## Leif

Ok, ok, I started out reading everything, but by the time I got over halfway up to the present, I started skimming pretty heavily.


----------



## Leif

*Metamagic Question*

Got a new idea to run by you guys:  Some Metamagic Feats (maybe all of them) seem to only affect ONE particular spell each time the feat is taken.  This seems very underpowered to me, seeing as how seldom feats are gained.  I think that having a feat affect EVERY spell is going too far the other way, but, maybe we could compromise and say that a metamagic feat will affect every spell in a given school of magic?  I may be wrong about the metamagic feats not affecting every spell, so please let me know if I am.

Just something to make you go, "Hmmmmm..."


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Nice thought.  Think it's working??




The fellows in white coats haven't come to take me away yet...


----------



## Leif

I just noticed that Capizzio/Scott DeWar hasn't been on ENWorld since: Last Activity: 09-14-08 03:54 PM.  Hopefully he'll be here soon?


----------



## renau1g

I hope so, three wizards will have some difficulties unless all of the hobgoblins roll low on their saving throws.


----------



## Leif

Is rossrebailey/Max still MIA?  Even so, with Capizzio also gone, that will leave you with FOUR wizards, not three.  Manny, Tylara, Xavier, and Kerlan.  Isn't that right?  Anyway, I still have faith in ol' David/Scott Dewar!  He was first in line to submit a character for this game.


----------



## renau1g

Whoops... my wizard addition skills aren't very good, I must've rounded Manny down 


P.S. Where'd the gnome go?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Easy enough to do - he's only a first level wizard, after all!  Pretty low level to be trying to fill all those big shoes the others are leaving behind.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Whoops... my wizard addition skills aren't very good, I must've rounded Manny down
> P.S. Where'd the gnome go?



Gnurl the Gnomish Wizard is hiding in my Profile Pic, and there are three pics of him in my so-called profile album.  I just needed a change of pace for a bit.  Hope you can forgive me.


BTW, "rounded down" the Brownie!!  BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott/Capizzio dropped from the game back around post 650 of this thread.  Did y'all forget, or did I miss him rejoining?


----------



## Leif

I guess I was just hoping he'd "COME HOME, SHANE!"


----------



## Leif

I just realized that the game has now dwindled to the standard party size of FOUR members.  Hopefully, it'll be stable at that number.  I do have some concerns about the ability of four wizards to make a successful go of it without some melee and/or clerical support.  Maybe Tylara's druidic talents will be sufficient.  The option to add cohorts/hirelings is always there, too.... but I'm happy with the way it is for as long as you guys are.  (And I have, at least, given you the advantage of maxing out your hit points, _patting myself on the back_.)


----------



## renau1g

Yes, let's do it! We should be at a level where we can at least compensate for some of our shortcomings. (i.e. summon monsters to provide cover, buffs to protect ourselves, etc.) but not yet high enough to 'go nova' as I believe high-level mages are wont to do.


----------



## Leif

And just what's wrong with going nova??  
(Personally, I was always kinda partial to it.)
(But, not to worry!  Scotley has taught me much about the virtues of monsters with Spell Resistance!  You know, like the demons who when you try to fry them with your 12-die _Lightning Bolts_, just calmly give you the finger. hehehe) (Or "the claw" as the case may be.)


Ooops, I'm showing my age, aren't I?  _Lightning Bolt_ has a 10-die max now, doesn't it?


----------



## renau1g

My games have never made it high enough to see that particular tactic utilized (and my players always *hate* playing wizards for some reason) I guess at low levels the 48 or so damage the half-orc barbarian can pump out in a single hit (1d12+4/x3) trumps the 5 of magic missile. Although Sleep and color spray are great equalizers


----------



## Scotley

I hope Tylara and company will at least survive to toss around some fireballs and such.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Manny's got skills!  Rogue ain't such a bad class for the combat.  Of course, he's highly skilled but VERY weak, so maybe the front lines aren't his cup o' tea . . .


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> I hope Tylara and company will at least survive to toss around some fireballs and such.




I'm counting on it, for sure!  You'll need them before this module is over, trust me.



			
				Mowgli said:
			
		

> Manny's got skills! Rogue ain't such a bad class for the combat. Of course, he's highly skilled but VERY weak, so maybe the front lines aren't his cup o' tea . . .



He needs a spell or a potion to make him BIGGER!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Headed to the lake this morning - be back sometime tomorrow.


----------



## Leif

renau1g, did you ever notice post #9 in the RG that is a comment addressed to you?  I just looked at your spell book, and I still don't see _Sleep_ listed there, so I guess maybe you didn't?

Oh, and everyone, looks like we need to nominate a new official treasure keeper, since rossrebailey seems to have dropped out of the Academy.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Headed off to internet deadzone for the weekend.  Back sometime Sunday.


----------



## Leif

Don't worry, Kerlan, Manny is npc'd along with Xavier.  Sheesh, that just leaves Kerlan and Tylara.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> OOC: I realized that none of the Web spell from the last room should have collapsed. No matter where I place the spell it has two anchor points, the ceiling and the floor.



Ok, good point.  I was thinking of the webs being concentrated in the lower portion of the room.  Won't make THAT mistake again! For at least a few more minutes, hehehe.  

Yes, the AoE is, basically, a 20' diameter sphere emanating from a designated point of origin, so ceiling and floor work well in the room in question.  Sorry about that.  Guess that's what I get for assuming that I know how a spell works.

Oh, and I do hope that renau1g puts in an appearance soon to reclaim control of Xavier, but, if not, he'll continue on as an npc.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Oh, and I do hope that renau1g puts in an appearance soon to reclaim control of Xavier, but, if not, he'll continue on as an npc.



Looks like he hasn't been on in a week. Hope we don't lose another one.


----------



## Leif

I suspect that something unforeseen has occurred in the life of renau1g.  He was very much into several games here.  This absence is unexpected, and I doubt if it's purely voluntary.

Guess we'll press onward soon, regardless.  Let me give our stragglers another day to post, ok?

[sblock=Mowgli and any other stragglers who may see this]See, dude, this is why you POST.  Even if you have nothing really super-constructive to add, it helps everyone know that you're still engaged in the game if you just post and say something like: 'Manny thinks hard about the situation and scratches his butt.'  If you don't do that, we don't know if you've read the current posts or not.   And, usually, if you try, you can come up with some sort of post that has some relevance for good role-play, if nothing else.  The more you tell me about how that little Brownie brain of his works, the easier it becomes to DM for Manny.[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

Ok, so I gave the stragglers a few more days instead of just one.  Maybe I don't feel quite as bad now.  Nahh, I still do, because I just completely forgot about it.  *sigh*  I'll move the story forward tonight, Lord willin' and the creek don't rise!

By the way, BUMP!!!


----------



## Leif

Good Grief, Guys!!  I'm really sorry this has taken so long.  I hope you guys are still with me....*GULP*


----------



## Scotley

I'll forgive you this time. Especially since I was too busy to check in for a couple days myself.


----------



## Leif

"This time," huh?  Mighty big of you there, Scotty!


----------



## Leif

I don't know if you wizardly types have noticed this or not, but all of the hobgoblins in this keep are WUSSES!  That may not be the case for the other, more nasty and fearsome, monsters that you face in this module.  (You did see that the current map has been modified to show a dungeon entrance, didn't you?)


----------



## Leif

I finally got around to making myself a copy of Xavier's sheet while he's being npced.  Hey, and somebody that we can count of sticking around (I think all 3 of the current players qualify) (didn't we start with 8??) needs to appropriate the treasure list and treasure keeping duties.


----------



## Scotley

One more for you to npc, I'll be out of touch for a few days. Hope to get a post up by Monday, but it may be Tuesday or even Wednesday, before I'm back to full posting.


----------



## Leif

Scotley and Mowgli, take a look at this new thread!

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/245051-return-northmoor.html


----------



## Scotley

I saw that this morning and was very intrigued. Only with great effort of will did I resist. You guys are already planning enough to keep my very busy.


----------



## Leif

Awww, come on, Scotley!!  Play 4e with me!  You might still be able to stake a spot if you hurry, but it's filling up quickly.


----------



## Leif

Come on, Scotley, Mowgli!!  DM says we're waiting for ONE more to join, so get busy and do that indian leg-wrestling thing to see which one of you gets it!  A word of warning Mowgli -- Scotley may have shorter legs, but he's w-i-i-i-ry!

Link to thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/245051-return-northmoor.html


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Sorry, man.  I just made arrangements to drop (temporarily) from The Colony game due to time constraints.  I'm trying to get my head back into my HERO game and having a serious itch to run a Pathfinder game in that same world, so between that and the games I'm playing in my online gaming slots are more than filled.  The thread does sound really cool, though . . . I wish I had the time.


----------



## Leif

It's cool.  I was just kinda amazed when I found the thread yesterday, so I wanted to share my find with you guys.  (I didn't want to be accused later on of hoarding the good games all to myself!  )  In the meantime, though, the game has pretty much filled up and we're now starting to move into the character generation phase of our communal world-building.  It's really a pretty cool deal, and the DM says that he's as surprised as we are at how things are turning out.

Poor JA!  First I temporarily drop The Colony, and now that I've come back, you (Mowgli) have dropped it!


----------



## Scotley

Yeah, you don't know how hard it was to resist. Let me know how this game turns out. I really like the collaborative elements of it, but that is also part of the reason I didn't try to join. I just couldn't devote the time time required to properly carry my weight in such a game. I've already had to slow the pace of my own games to a crawl. I can't really justify playing in even more.


----------



## Leif

Well, I'll let you in on a little secret, if you promise not to tell:  I don't think it's going to be that hard to carry my weight, because so many of the others are very gung-ho to do all the difficult design work.  I'm not anticipating needing to do much more than add a dash of flavor here and there, kinda like what I did with Lauralie Summerhome.   Truthfully, I don't even understand some of the things they've been talking about, but I figure if I act like I know what I"m doing, then I can fool at least some of them for awhile.


----------



## Leif

*Too funny!*

Here's a pic of Gandalf that I found on the web today.


----------



## Scotley

That's wonderful, not only funny but true!


----------



## Leif

I just checked renau1g's profile.  His last activity was on 7 October, 2008.  Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't I been npcing Xavier for much longer than that?  If you happen to see this, renau1g, I stand ready to give Xavier's reins back to you at any time, and will gladly do so and welcome you back to the game.  I didn't take over any of the other a.w.o.l.'s because you were the last to leave, and I felt like the drop from 4 down to 3 took us below critical mass to achieve success.  I really hope that you see this, and, if you do, please let us know something, no matter what your decision is, ok?

Thanks


----------



## Leif

*New Wizard!*

It looks like we may well be getting a new wizard shortly.  I've suggested to the new player that he take over Xavier, at least for the rest of the current adventure, but I probably won't hold him to that.  We'll work something out.  Regardless of whether he plays Xavier or not, when he joins the group, I"ll most likely stop NPCing Xavier.


----------



## Scotley

Excellent! We could use a little help.


----------



## Leif

Well, like I said, it probably will just be a wash for the party strength wise, because I'll most likelly stop NPCing Xavier when he joins.  But, on the other hand, our ol' buddy JA said at one time that he was interested in playing when he had more time.  I think he's been posting like he's got more time, lately, so you're welcome to see if he's about ready to jump into the mix with us.


----------



## Leif

Welcome Lou!  

I'm so very glad to have you take over Xavier that words simply fail me.


Yep, Lou is another one of our old f-t-f group from ancient history. (Scotley, Leif, Mowgli, Lou, J Alexander, mleibrock, plus maybe a couple of others)  Of course, if we had known Kerlan back then, he would have been welcome to join us as well! 

  Now that I've sent him all of the threads, he can even post his own Xavier in the RG and see all of my witty repartee in the OOC thread.


----------



## Lou

I'm here and caught up on the OOC thread. 

So the party has 9054 XP each, almost to the 10000 required for 5th level? See OOC Post #663

I'm still thinking about a change in character after this adventure.  I'll let everyone know.


----------



## Leif

Lou said:


> I'm here and caught up on the OOC thread.
> 
> So the party has 9054 XP each, almost to the 10000 required for 5th level? See OOC Post #663
> 
> I'm still thinking about a change in character after this adventure.  I'll let everyone know.



Oh, you'll make it easily.  In fact, you may already be just about there.  Once the current battle is over, I'll take stock while you have a look in the unexplored parts of the keep.  It may not be such a good idea for you to leave and come back to finish up later, but if that's your decision then I guess you'll have to live with it.  (You hope.) 

As a matter of fact, I've been toying with the idea of letting any who wish to do so roll up a replacement character of whatever class you want.  That could possibly do some damage to the overall character of the campaign, but, really, as long as we have a few Whirtlestaff's students in the party, we should be ok.  And my feeling is that Tylara, Manny, and Kerlan are all three going to be around for the long haul.  Since that's the ENTIRE party except for Lou, well, you can see where that leaves us.  Still, I could be wrong about T, M, and K, but you can let me know if that's the case.


----------



## Scotley

I fully intend to keep playing Tylara...assuming I can keep her alive.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Likewise - I've got big plans for little Manny!


----------



## Leif

Glad to hear (read) it guys!


----------



## Leif

I probably won't be able to post again until tomorrow evening, but I hope to do so then.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Yep, Lou is another one of our old f-t-f group from ancient history. (Scotley, Leif, Mowgli, Lou, J Alexander, mleibrock, plus maybe a couple of others)  Of course, if we had known Kerlan back then, he would have been welcome to join us as well! :d



Wow. I'm honored. This is the only game I play in right now. Most of the games I try for I either don't get picked or the game dies. I would love to join another game if any of you create one. Let me know if one comes up. Also, I'll be here for a while. I like this game. 

Kerlan


----------



## Leif

Be careful what you wish for, Kerlan!  We've all got games going.  And Scotley and I are co-dming one as well. J Alexander has NUMEROUS games in progress here.  BTW, thanks for your kind words about this game!  I can't imagine why you aren't selected more often.  You're one of the more enthusiastic players I've run across at ENWorld.

Ok, I'm outta here for REAL now until tomorrow evening.  Really.  See ya!


----------



## Leif

Kerlan:  Here's a link to Scotley's/My Constables of the 14th Ward game.  We're full-up at the moment, but we'll sure keep you in mind for the next vacancy that occurs, if you want -- http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/222793-constables-14th-ward-part-2-a.html

BTW:  SURPRISE!!  I made it back before evening!


----------



## Scotley

KerlanRayne said:


> Wow. I'm honored. This is the only game I play in right now. Most of the games I try for I either don't get picked or the game dies. I would love to join another game if any of you create one. Let me know if one comes up. Also, I'll be here for a while. I like this game.
> 
> Kerlan




Unfortunately, games die with disturbing frequency. A quick glance at my signature file shows the numerous games that started and promptly died I've joined in the past. One of our players in the Constables game has been silent for some time now. We had another player coming back in, but there could be an opening soon. My other games are full up just now, but I could kill off a couple of characters soon. It is an old school run through the Tomb of Horrors. It is a meat grinder almost sure to have some attrition. I've already lost and added several players.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> My other games are full up just now, but I could kill off a couple of characters soon.



PLEASE don't kill Gnurl???


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> One of our players in the Constables game has been silent for some time now. We had another player coming back in, but there could be an opening soon.



Hmm, I'm trying to remember who we haven't heard from lately, nope, not Thea she just posted.  Not Darius, he just posted today.  Not Rahvin, he withdrew, as did Moru.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Hmm, I'm trying to remember who we haven't heard from lately, nope, not Thea she just posted.  Not Darius, he just posted today.  Not Rahvin, he withdrew, and did Moru.




Jonas


----------



## Leif

Well, sunuvagun, you're right  We haven't seen our Urban Ranger for awhile, have we?  He's probably just out on an extended patrol somewhere in enemy territory.


----------



## Lou

Strangely enough, it is snowing quite heavily right now in Houston, Texas!  And it is starting to accumulate on the grass.  They are thick wet flakes.


----------



## Scotley

Snow would be a nice change. We've had enough rain to generate flooding, but it is just barely too warm for snow.


----------



## Lou

As it continues to cool off, the flakes are getting smaller and smaller.  It was sleeting just before the snow started.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> BTW, thanks for your kind words about this game!  I can't imagine why you aren't selected more often.  You're one of the more enthusiastic players I've run across at ENWorld.



The last game I applied for I made this really cool _Totem Rager_ using Incarnum. I had never used that system before and thought it would be really fun. I lost out because the DM needed a tracker in the group and my PC couldn't do it. It was a close call though. I would love to try the PC out in a different game.


----------



## Leif

I got the Magic of Incarnum book not too long ago.  I think I almost understand most of it, too.  There's an outside chance that Incarnum could possibly appear in this game at some future point.

(You know, in case I want to "Shake things up!" - this is only funny if you've seen the promos for "Bones" on USA Network, and maybe not even then.)


----------



## Leif

Lou, why don't you go ahead and copy Xavier's info into your own post in the RG.  We need you to have a sheet for him on which you can keep up with his stuff.  Feel free to make any changes to him you want, but big things like changing spells known should be done after you get back to civilization.  Spells memorized also need to stay the same for this day, but I'm sure you can make do.

BTW, Lou, KerlanRayne recently said that he'd love to play in more games, if you have an open slot in your game.  I don't know though, he might not be weird enough to play in yours!


----------



## Leif

Hey, Kerlan, Scotley and I did, in fact, lose the player that we were talking about here recently.  So, take a look at that thread and stuff and let us know if you're interested.  [See post 762 of this thread for a link.]  

A word of warning -- the addition of you to the game would bring the party back up to full strength -- 9 players, if memory serves.  Keeping up with 9 isn't easy sometimes, and you have to wait kind of a long time sometimes for your turn to come around again, but think about it anyway, ok?


----------



## Leif

Lou, Xavier's xp total should be 8874, which is what Scotley has down for Tylara.  Does anyone have a higher total than this?  If not, then EVERYONE should have 8874 xp.  (Gotta keep things even, ya know)

That is a correct total, isn't it Scotley?


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Lou, Xavier's xp total should be 8874, which is what Scotley has down for Tylara.  Does anyone have a higher total than this?  If not, then EVERYONE should have 8874 xp.  (Gotta keep things even, ya know)
> 
> That is a correct total, isn't it Scotley?




I believe it is correct.


----------



## Leif

cool!  Then you'll make 5th level easily after this fight.  The only question, then, will be whether you wait until after the dungeon is complete to level up, or whether you go back now and take care of that and then return later to finish up the dungeon.  Remember, this keep is not exactly right beside the town of Pembrose.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Lou, Xavier's xp total should be 8874, which is what Scotley has down for Tylara.  Does anyone have a higher total than this?  If not, then EVERYONE should have 8874 xp.  (Gotta keep things even, ya know)
> 
> That is a correct total, isn't it Scotley?



Actually, I have +180 xp for our roleplaying in Pembrose. This gives us a total of 9,054 xp. Kerlan also has 150 bonus XP. If you want, I can dig up some quotes from the thread for you.


----------



## Leif

XP REVISION

No, quotes are not necessary, Kerlan, but thanks for the offer. 

So, then, that makes the new xp total 9,054 for everyone but Kerlan, and 9204 for Kerlan. Did I get that right?


----------



## Scotley

Scotley said:


> I believe it is correct.




 Um, now it is correct at 9054.


----------



## Leif

Hehehe, that Kerlan is handy to have around, isn't he?

I may have forgotten to mention this (in fact, I'm sure that I did), but Thugler was fighting with a very nice looking, high-quality falchion.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Hehehe, that Kerlan is handy to have around, isn't he?




Yes indeed, thanks for the correction dude!


----------



## Leif

*Wizard Victory!*

Ok, whew!  You have emerged victorious from the battle with the hobgoblins.  Just some clean-up remains, and some searching of the keep.  Oh, there may be a few scattered fights left here and there, but nothing like the extended battle with the hobgoblins.  I'll get xp figured later today (I hope).  This would be a good point at which to take a break from the dungeon and level up.  And, Lou, it's at the "level-up break" when it would be easiest for you to trade Xavier Zalev for a character of your own, if you wish to do so.  You're more than welcome to keep Xavier, however, and if you want to do something of a re-build of Xavier, then you can do that when you level up, too.  (I mean changing things like skill allocation, feat selection, spell selection, weapon use, etc.)

When you finish up all of the Hobgoblin Keep, you will have completed the first portion of the adventure.  And,  oh yeah!, you haven't even found any clues as to what's going on yet!


----------



## Leif

What's Left, You Ask?

You have not yet explored either the southern or the eastern portions of the keep, and, let's not forget that mysterious stairway leading down that is to be found in the northern portion.  (See the most recent map.)

[sblock=Spoiler]OH YEAH!  And also, don't forget the hobgoblins that you left behind, trapped in the web!  You might want to get back up there and dispatch them while you still can, hint, hint.[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

*Brief Recap*

For Lou's benefit, here's a brief recap of what's happened so far:

After classes let out at Whirtlestaff's for the summer, the group was hanging around campus (a large tower) when Professor Daniel J. ("Jack") Claret asked you to run an errand for him to take something to his friend, Crus, in the little town of Twain, located at the eastern end of Quail Valley, up the River Wren from Pembrose (the largest town in Quail Valley).  (Pembrose is to be found at the confluence of the River Wren and the Quail River.)  You booked a brief sea passage across to the mainland, arriving at the town of Pembrose.  From there, you traveled by barge up the River Wren to Twain.  Upon your return back to Pembrose you were asked by the local Lord to clear out an infestation of hobgoblins in a small keep not far from Pembrose.  You are still in the process of that task.

(For a bit more detail, see the first post of the IC thread.)


----------



## Leif

*Role-Play Bunuses to XP*

Scotley/Tylara: 100 xp

Mowgli/Manny: 100 xp

Lou/Xavier:  100 xp

(That cuts Kerlan's lead to 50 xp, if memory serves. Kerlan previously received a 150xp role-play bonus wayyy back.) It was a good run, Kerlan, but you had to know that it wouldn't last forever, right?)

And, yes, this is done just to equalize xp among the party. I can live with Kerlan having 50 more than the rest of you, can't you also? From now on, I'll try to still award good role-play with bonus xp, but it will be added to the group's total, not individual awards. Therefore, the bonuses may be a bit larger so that you'll be able to notice the impact of the bonus that's been diluted among the whole party, and you'll still have plenty of incentive to WOW me with your awesome role-playing. Everyone is doing a fantastic job so far!


----------



## Scotley

"To be...or not to be, THAT is the question..." 

Just getting warmed up for some wowing roleplay.


----------



## Leif

"Alas, poor Yorick!  I knew him well."  [incorrect quotation.  See KerlanRayne's reply for the correct version. ]


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> "Alas, poor Yorick!  I knew him well."



"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio: a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy"


----------



## Leif

Yes, thanks, kerlan!


----------



## Leif

Mowgli,

I was just looking over Manny's sheet.  Did you cheat our little Brownie out of his racial hit dice, or what?  I looked through all the monster manuals but couldn't find an entry for Brownie, but now I remember that you found the template somewhere else.

Ok, nevermind -- I just looked at the Brownie Template in the RG.  But, if you didn't already add Manny's racial "hit point" in with his hp from his classes, then you can go ahead and do that.  (Hey, every little bit helps, and Manny is a "little bit," isn't he?)


----------



## Scott DeWar

Is that ragamuffin Capizzio del Collines, esq still welcome here?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Is that ragamuffin Capizzio del Collines, esq still welcome here?



Sure!  If you guys will pause on the way into the dungeon to check out Thugler's room thoroughly, then we can include Capizzio's return from his "personal business" in the woods.  (It was a DOOZY, too, that's why it took so long.  )  Another pair of eyes and another set of spells will be most useful to you guys, too!


----------



## Leif

Lou, is Complete Mage on your 'DVD of Holding' from Scotley?  I just realized that you may not have access to Xavier's 'Focused Specialist' class.  (As Xavier's sheet says, it's on page 70 of Complete Mage.)  But I think that Xavier's sheet already has pretty much all of the relevant stuff on it from that class.


----------



## Lou

Isn't Xavier a Master Specialist instead of a Focused Specialist?  Or is he both, with the Focused Specialist part of his Wizard levels?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Sure!  If you guys will pause on the way into the dungeon to check out Thugler's room thoroughly, then we can include Capizzio's return from his "personal business" in the woods.  (It was a DOOZY, too, that's why it took so long.  )



Well I think you'll have to come up with something more dignified than that. 


Leif said:


> Capizzio receives a message unexpectedly.  He excuses himself to his room, hurriedly packs his things, flings some coins at the innkeeper, and bids you all a fond adieu.  Seems he was summoned back to Whirtlestaffs at the urgent request of his advisor.  That professor is something of a needy sort, and it seems that his favorite teaching assistant suddenly disappeared.  (Might be something that you should look into when you get a chance and some free time....)  Capizzio's was the next name on the list.
> 
> Capizzio gathers his things together and just waits.  Momentarily, there is a loud bang and a cloud of smoke, in which stands said professor.  He sees Capizzio, greets him warmly, and then begins another casting, and they both vanish.



He probably came back, found out we had already left, and came to help. He arrived to find everything pretty much taken care of. Yay for us. Anyway, it will be good to have Capizzio back.


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> Well I think you'll have to come up with something more dignified than that.



hehehe, don't you think he deserves some loss of dignity for deserting us in the first pace?


----------



## Scotley

I don't think Capizzio was all that dignified to start with.


----------



## Leif

No coment.    We luvs ya S. DeWar!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> I don't think Capizzio was all that dignified to start with.




to scottley: ........* at you

but serious ( or as serious as you can be about an FRG) I was thinking he was called back to deal with a sudden appearance of undead in an archeological dig where his parents are working and he returns with a zombie's hand stuck in his armor on his back

picture this: he returns back, is asked what he has been doing. he says helping out the parents and then says, "do any of you smell any thing funny?"


----------



## Leif

Ok, S. Dewar, that works for me.


----------



## Lou

While understand the desire to have searches role-played, the SEARCH roll can provide either intensity of the search or luck for finding things.  In Xavier's case, the roll of 1 could mean that he gets so hung up laughing about Thugler learning to spell his name that he misses something on the desk in plain sight.


----------



## Leif

Lou said:


> While understand the desire to have searches role-played, the SEARCH roll can provide either intensity of the search or luck for finding things.  In Xavier's case, the roll of 1 could mean that he gets so hung up laughing about Thugler learning to spell his name that he misses something on the desk in plain sight.



Excellent idea, Lou!!  We'll do it that way from this point forward.  And I'm gonna go post that in the House Rules forum, too.  Don't worry Lou, I'll give you the credit for it.


----------



## Leif

New Thread opened in 3.5 house rules forum, and credit given to Lou for his creation.


----------



## Leif

It's now been rougly 2.5 hours since I opened the new thread about the Search skill.  No replies as yet.  *sigh*


----------



## Lou

Leif said:


> It's now been rougly 2.5 hours since I opened the new thread about the Search skill. No replies as yet. *sigh*




Just do what I did:  Subscribe to the thread with instant email notification and wait for a post.


----------



## Leif

Lou said:


> Just do what I did:  Subscribe to the thread with instant email notification and wait for a post.



When I posted there, I automatically subscribed to the thread,  But, I HATE those email notifications!


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar, I just realized that, in Scotley's Tomb of Horrors, my Logan does indeed have some scrolls of Resurrection, so he used one on Harrison.  Does that mean that you'll take Capizzio away from us again?  You'd better not!


----------



## Leif

Everybody who's ever been curious about the utility of the Search skill might enjoy taking a look at this thread, which I mentioned first below in post #804:

(Got some good replies, after all!)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3r...8241-new-approach-search-skill-d-d-3-5-a.html


----------



## Scott DeWar

Just to put you at ease, Leif, you have no worries about Capizzio dissappearing again. there is no connection between harrison and his deat and capizzio and his return. Life has gotten a bit less complicated for me and i thought to bring back capizzio as promissed.


----------



## Leif

EXCELLENT!  Good to have you back, S. Dewar!


----------



## Leif

For the ENTIRE battle for the Hobgoblin keep so far, from the slipping over the wall, to the interrogation of the kobold slaves, to battling all of the hobgoblins, the Wizards are hereby awarded:  2,040 xp each, which when added to the previous total of 9,054 xp means that everyone* has a new total of:

11,094 xp

Can you say Fifth Level?   But there are still some loose ends to tie up, like the dungeon level of the keep, and some poor searching habits that the wizards had during the first part of this battle.  (hint, hint)  Plus you're just pretty sure that Lord Kyle doesn't want his keep back with a gelatinous cube in the stable!

* By "everyone," I mean Tylara, Manny, Kerlan, Xavier, and Capizzio.


****DON'T LEVEL-UP JUST YET, THOUGH!!!!****


----------



## Scotley

Excellent! I am excited about 5th level. Tylara will continue as wizard.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> For the ENTIRE battle for the Hobgoblin keep so far, from the slipping over the wall, to the interrogation of the kobold slaves, to battling all of the hobgoblins, the Wizards are hereby awarded:  2,040 xp each, which when added to the previous total of 9,054 xp means that everyone* has a new total of:
> 
> 11,094 xp
> 
> 
> * By "everyone," I mean Tylara, Manny, Kerlan, Xavier, and Capizzio.
> 
> 
> ****DON'T LEVEL-UP JUST YET, THOUGH!!!!****




why would capizzio get any thing? he has not been any where near the keep this whole tim. I have been AWOL ...  there for in all fairness, my character should get zilch, nada, zero, nuthin, zip, nil. I am not being ingarataous, just honest.


----------



## Leif

I dunno, I just wanted to keep everybody even.  Any other comments?


----------



## KerlanRayne

Scott DeWar said:


> why would capizzio get any thing? he has not been any where near the keep this whole tim. I have been AWOL ...  there for in all fairness, my character should get zilch, nada, zero, nuthin, zip, nil. I am not being ingarataous, just honest.



Well, if you feel that way how about you just get the bare minimum for 5th level, which is about half what the others get. That way you are still the same level as everyone else. Capizzio was doing _something_ during that time. The experience could be from that.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I realize you didn't put it up for a vote, Leif, but you did ask for comments . I got no beef with Cappizio getting the same as the rest of us.  It's not like it hurts us for him to be caught up - in fact, it can really only help the party.  It makes life a little easier for our esteemed GM  which again - other than giving you more time to find devious ways to make us have fun playing our characters and getting them out of trouble - can only help us. And finally, it's not like we really 'earned' our points either. We're playing a game, and having a great time doing it . . . so I call the experience a consolation prize for having missed out on the fun while he was gone!


----------



## Leif

KerlanRayne said:
			
		

> Capizzio was doing something during that time. The experience could be from that.



Exellent point, Kerlan!  However, giving him a share of the party's xp does reduce by a little bit the amount of xp that the rest of you get.



Mowgli said:


> I realize you didn't put it up for a vote, Leif, but you did ask for comments . I got no beef with Cappizio getting the same as the rest of us.  It's not like it hurts us for him to be caught up - in fact, it can really only help the party.  It makes life a little easier for our esteemed GM  which again - other than giving you more time to find devious ways to make us have fun playing our characters and getting them out of trouble - can only help us. And finally, it's not like we really 'earned' our points either. We're playing a game, and having a great time doing it . . . so I call the experience a consolation prize for having missed out on the fun while he was gone!



Another excellent point!  Looks like at least some of the other players want you to share in the xp, S. Dewar.    See?  What do you say to THAT, eh?


----------



## Leif

Actually, I like for all pcs to have equal amounts of xp.  Capizzio will not be reducing by much what the others receive, anyway, so that's really not too much of an issue.  And besides, S. Dewar, you and Capizzio are FAMILY here, after all! 

And that's not to even mention the fact that if you don't take this xp Capizzio will be a level behind the rest of the party, and will thus become a liability for everyone, who will have to watch out for him to keep his silly butt alive.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Exellent point, Kerlan!  However, giving him a share of the party's xp does reduce by a little bit the amount of xp that the rest of you get.
> 
> 
> Another excellent point!  Looks like at least some of the other players want you to share in the xp, S. Dewar.    See?  What do you say to THAT, eh?




errr ... ummmm .... uh .... well .... gosh .... shucks ... thanks guys!



Leif said:


> Actually, I like for all pcs to have equal amounts of xp.  Capizzio will not be reducing by much what the others receive, anyway, so that's really not too much of an issue.  And besides, S. Dewar, you and Capizzio are FAMILY here, after all!
> 
> And that's not to even mention the fact that if you don't take this xp Capizzio will be a level behind the rest of the party, and will thus become a liability for everyone, who will have to watch out for him to keep his silly butt alive.




a same level party is definitely a lot better for other players and dm alike, so i will humbly accept your most gracious generosity. new xp will be noted in the rg thread with the note that he has not leveled up


----------



## Leif

Aren't they a bunch of sweethearts? 

Yes, no one should level-up quite yet.  Will you go back into the dungeon next, or would you prefer to take the rest of today off, go back to Pembrose, level-up, and maybe have a drink?


----------



## Scott DeWar

pembros, is that where the lord of this keep is? i am thinking that may be where we may want to go. ya know, to return that cool looking scepter ( now how to remove that emrald with no one looking....just kidding)


----------



## Leif

You may remember Pembrose, your characters surely do.  That's the first town you came to in Quail Valley back when you were on your way to Twain to see Magus Crus.  And you even had an audience with Lord Kyle at one point, which is how you knew to come clear out the hobgoblins from the keep.  And you're all getting paid a little bit of money from him for this in addition to the treasure you've found.  (He just said 250 gp each, I think.)

Is it all coming back now?
(I hope...)


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> For the ENTIRE battle for the Hobgoblin keep so far, from the slipping over the wall, to the interrogation of the kobold slaves, to battling all of the hobgoblins, the Wizards are hereby awarded:  2,040 xp each, which when added to the previous total of 9,054 xp means that everyone* has a new total of: *11,094 xp*
> * By "everyone," I mean Tylara, Manny, Kerlan, Xavier, and Capizzio.



So how does the bonus XP from earlier fit into this? Is it included in there and Kerlan has 50 more, or was it left out and everyone has 100 more with Kerlan at 150 more? and if Capizzio gets the same amount of experience as us it shouldn't come from the same pool. His XP should be separate from ours and not reduce our XP any.

Also, I don't think we should leave. If there are prisoners down there they won't be happy about being left alone for a whole day. If there are enemies down there, they will probably either flee or get reinforcements from the Underdark. We should take care of them now. Kerlan, Tylara, and Capizzio still have spells left to use.


----------



## Scott DeWar

KerlanRayne said:


> So how does the bonus XP from earlier fit into this? Is it included in there and Kerlan has 50 more, or was it left out and everyone has 100 more with Kerlan at 150 more?
> 
> Also, I don't think we should leave. If there are prisoners down there they won't be happy about being left alone for a whole day. If there are enemies down there, they will probably either flee or get reinforcements from the Underdark. We should take care of them now. Kerlan, Tylara, and Capizzio still have spells left to use.




I am playing Capizzio as lierally having just gotten back and knows nothing  of ehat you guys have done. what ever you tell him is what he will know.

Leif: as for what i remembered i remembered all of what you said except where we had met Lord Kyle. that verified what i needed to know. 

]aside from that[ I think if it is brought to Capizzio's attention that there are prisoners, he will not want to leave until they are free. if he is told that there are still more enemies  he likewise will not leave until they are dealt with...even more so is that they can have access to the under dark!!!!

]/aside from that[


----------



## Leif

Kerlan:  I don't know of a way to say it that is more straightforward and plain than what I already said:  *EVERYBODY's* new XP total is  11,094 xp.  What's not clear about that?  As far as the particulars of how a certain person got to this total, whatever anyone wishes that doesn't change the end result is fine with me.

And it makes me proud that Kerlan and Capizzio both want to keep going!


----------



## Scott DeWar

i saw you post for scotley as he is having internet issues, so do you know what he would have ty do?


----------



## Leif

If Kerlan ad Capizzio press onward, then Tylara will go along with them (at leat until Scotley gets back and says otherwise).  What say Xavier and Manny?


----------



## Leif

We have 946 posts in the IC thread as of now.  It occurs to me that it might make more sense to change threads at a logical place in the story, not just according to the post count.  So....... we might could start a new thread when you descend into the Dungeon of the Hobgoblin Keep.  What do you guys think?  (I'd hate to be accused of wasting those 44 posts!  )


----------



## Lou

I thought I already posted this....

Xavier is willing to go on to battle evil and rescue people in need.  I'm not quite ready to propose my new character yet....


----------



## Leif

If you did post it before, then I sure missed it.  But, thanks!  I'm still tickled to have you running Xavier, Lou!   (Or running whomever you wish to run, I should say.)  Will it be ok with you if Xavier finishes this adventure?  Then you can switch off at a good transition point.  And the more xp Xavier has, the more your new character will start with, too!   (Assuming, that is, that I give your new character my Official DM Seal of Approval! )

If you haven't seen them yet, char. gen. rules are in post #1 of the RG.


----------



## Lou

I posted just as you did, but the system ate it.  I'm having trouble with some sites like this one that use cookies to stay logged in.


----------



## Scott DeWar

when you log in klik the 'remember me button' then log in. it helps me in avoiding the dropped psot problem.

leif, by the way, you might want to chec you math. post 946 plus 44 unused posts equals 990 total. unless you wnat to total 990 instead of 1000


----------



## Lou

Scott DeWar said:


> when you log in klik the 'remember me button' then log in. it helps me in avoiding the dropped psot problem.




My anti-virus program keeps blocking the cookie. I've tried to "educate" it...


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> leif, by the way, you might want to chec you math. post 946 plus 44 unused posts equals 990 total. unless you wnat to total 990 instead of 1000




that's why I switched majors to History!


----------



## Scott DeWar

ah...in other words, you are decisively devious and deturmined that we would stop at 990!


----------



## Leif

Absolutely NOT!  I just make math mistakes.


----------



## Scott DeWar

i was giving you the benifit of the doubt


----------



## Leif

Oh, thanks, but hardly necessary.   My penchant for screw-ups is legendary.


----------



## Scott DeWar

QUOTE=Leif;4626246 Oh, thanks, but hardly necessary.   My penchant for screw-ups is are legendary. /QUOTE


----------



## Leif

What were you trying to say, DeWar?  OK, I got it now.  "Is" is correct.  It's the PENCHANT that is legendary, not the screw-ups.

BTW, before you descend into the dungeon, someone needs to give me a marching order.


----------



## Scotley

Tylara can do second rank with bow at the ready.


----------



## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Kerlan:  I don't know of a way to say it that is more straightforward and plain than what I already said:  *EVERYBODY's* new XP total is  11,094 xp.  What's not clear about that?  As far as the particulars of how a certain person got to this total, whatever anyone wishes that doesn't change the end result is fine with me.



Ouch. Don't bite my head off. It was just a question. You had just said some posts back that Kerlan was a little ahead of everyone else. If you decided to change that you didn't say anything about it. I was just making sure you took everyone's roleplaying XP into account. I don't have a problem with the total we can all be even if that's what you want.


----------



## Leif

Hehehe, no 'chomping' intended, Kerlan.  I really wasn't upset when I wrote that message at all, and I didn't intend for it to be taken that way.  Yeah, I did have Kerlan a little ahead for awhile, but then I closed the gap with rp awards to the rest of the party, and now I think it's time for everybody to be even again.  No offense intended, and no comment is implied about anything, I just like having everybody at the same xp total.  I thought when I said that everybody's total was the same number then that was the same as saying that Kerlan was no longer in the lead, but, you know, now that I think about it more, Kerlan and Xavier are both more powerful wizards than the rest of the party by a little bit, so maybe they'll be rewarded for that sometime.  For now, though, let's leave everybody equal, ok?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Capizzio will be at the first rank, Rapier in one hand, cross bow bolt (launch bolt spell) in the other


----------



## Leif

*This Order Superseded*

Kerlan gave us one!


----------



## Scott DeWar

post 842 shows tylara in second rank


----------



## Leif

Eeek!  Who peed on my cheerios???


----------



## Scotley

I can live with third rank. Thanks anyway Mr. DeWar.


----------



## Leif

My apologies to Mr. Dewar for my harsh words earlier.   It's not been a fun day.  Thanks for your contribution S. Dewar.


----------



## Lou

Xavier is fine in the back row, with his crossbow at the ready.  Feel free to move things forward after all players have chimed in.


----------



## KerlanRayne

How about this? 

10-Foot Corridor:
Capizzio-Kerlan
Manny
Tylara-Xavier

5-Foot Corridor:
Kerlan
Capizzio
Tylara
Manny
Xavier


----------



## Leif

Thanks, Kerlan!  We'll go with that for now, but it's easily changed later, if someone is unhappy.

Also, Kerlan, thanks for giving S. DeWar and Lou the 'quick and dirty' summary of events so far here at the Hobgoblin keep.  I should point out to Lou, however, that the assault of this keep is not exactly the first adventure of the game.  (And, Lou, that was back when Capizzio was still with us the first time around -- he was an original character here, but left temporarily due to RL issues, as you have no doubt noticed from reading the thread from the beginning?)  It is the first Dungeon, but there was a previous errand that was mostly travel, with some sparse coombat involved, too.  And, Lou, you may or may not know, or I may or may not have already told you, but you are clearing out this keep under a commission from Lord Kyle of Pembrose.  The pay from him is on the light side, but you also get to keep whatever you find here, even if it can really be traced back to property of the former garrison here.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I am good with the marching order via Kerlan.


----------



## Leif

Please note!  The IC thread has been FORKED!  New thread is here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/249118-whirtlestaffs-wizards-academy-revisited-ic-2-a.html

First IC Thread is here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/224681-whirtlestaffs-wizards-academy-revisited-ic-1-a.html

And this OOC thread is not going to last too much longer, it looks like!  [Yeah, Scotley, I know, I' 'chatty.'  ]


----------



## Scott DeWar

didn't you have this happen recently in the contables of the 14th ward thread? and didn't you get accused of being chatty there too? hmmmm..........


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> didn't you have this happen recently in the contables of the 14th ward thread? and didn't you get accused of being chatty there too? hmmmm..........



Actually, that was what I was referring to.  I figured I'd beat Scotley to the punch, this time.


----------



## Leif

Anyway, DeWar, whatchu know 'bout that "constables thread?"  You been spying on me or Scotley?


----------



## Scott DeWar

i ... um ... _accidnetly_ .... um...uh .... clicked ... on that thread, yeah, uh ... _accidently_. that's the ticket.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Anyway, DeWar, whatchu know 'bout that "constables thread?"  You been spying on me or Scotley?




Does having a stalker make us celebrity DM's?


----------



## Leif

I think our DM skills speak for themselves, so I really don't see how the "celebrity factor" will help us in that way.  But it could be good for our "ENWorld cred" I guess.  (We've seriously got to consider recruiting a higher class of stalker, though!  Sheesh!)

[joke! put the gun down S DeWar!]


----------



## Scott DeWar

roflmaogarb! 

I never really saw my self as a stalker, but if you want to see it that way, then go for it.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> I think our DM skills speak for themselves, so I really don't see how the "celebrity factor" will help us in that way.  But it could be good for our "ENWorld cred" I guess.  (We've seriously got to consider recruiting a higher class of stalker, though!  Sheesh!)
> 
> [joke! put the gun down S DeWar!]





just remember, I only know where the bodies are because i put them there.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> just remember, I only know where the bodies are because i put them there.



Don't worry, I will be discreet about it.  Just don't add my body to your "collection," please, Dr. Lecter!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Don't worry, I will be discreet about it.  Just don't add my body to your "collection," please, Dr. Lecter!




First of all, Dr Lecter is not one of my known associates.

I am a gardner, you see, and occasionally in need mulch. right nlw i have all of the _mulch i need _, so i will not need _you_ ... *for now*.

*minor organ chords played , with evil laughter echoing in background*


----------



## Leif

Cool.  I recommend that you buy a big dog.  Then, you'll have an endless supply of fertilizer, mulch, whatever.


----------



## Scott DeWar

actually dogs do mot make good "futilizer" to be used on gardens. horses, cattle and sheep feceas is much better and dead humans arn't too bad for corn growth according to the movie "the secret window". (oops, did i really type that?)


----------



## Leif

I certainly won't even try to match your s___ expertise, S Dewar!  You win!!


----------



## renau1g

I'm glad to see Xavier is healthy, and in good hands. Go Wizards!


----------



## Lou

You want him back?  I'm working on another character, his sister....


----------



## renau1g

That's Leif's call. I'd enjoy taking him on again, but only if the most FAMOUS, MAGNANIMOUS DM will have me back.  /end suck up


----------



## Leif

Well, it's YOUR call, too, renau1g.  Let's let Lou maintain the helm for the rest of this adventure, which is almost over anyway, and then, if you still want to play and have time and the spare energy to handle it comfortably, sure, your welcome to him.  (After Lou gets the 'sister' sorted out, of course.)

OOC:  Sister?  What sister??


----------



## renau1g

Definitely interested, keep me posted.


----------



## Leif

You got it!


----------



## Scott DeWar

well, it kinda sorta could be...

oops, wrong thread


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> That's Leif's call. I'd enjoy taking him on again, but only if the most FAMOUS, MAGNANIMOUS DM will have me back.  /end suck up



Anyway, renau1g, flattery is, I think, supposed to be at least believable.   I mean, really, FAMOUS??  For what??  Never mind, I don't want to know.


----------



## Scott DeWar

shouldn't that be _in-famous_ ?


----------



## renau1g

Well you have a stalker...  so you *MUST* be famous...


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> Well you have a stalker...  so you *MUST* be famous...




well I was thinking that he is a dm.

dm's are eeeevillll

evil= infamaous

thereby, Leif should be infamous.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Well you have a stalker...  so you *MUST* be famous...



You're officially my 'stalker' now?  Oh, dear!  Somehow, I always hoped that when I finally attracted a stalker it would be a beautiful woman with humongous.......... uh............. charms.  Sorry, renaul1g, but you're not much of a substitute for that.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> well I was thinking that he is a dm.
> dm's are eeeevillll
> evil= infamaous
> thereby, Leif should be infamous.



If you insist on continuing to call me evil, I may just feel compelled to show you up close and personal like just how freakin' evil I can be!


----------



## Scott DeWar

huge ... tracks of land?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> If you insist on continuing to call me evil, I may just feel compelled to show you up close and personal like just how freakin' evil I can be!




Iheard a rumor that said that any halo that you may have possessed was actually indeed stollan, and that is why it has to rest on the top of your horns to keep it there.

but that is just a rumor


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> huge ... tracks of land?



Aye!  That's just the ticket, laddie. 

SHE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!!  I got better....


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Iheard a rumor that said that any halo that you may have possessed was actually indeed stollan, and that is why it has to rest on the top of your horns to keep it there.
> but that is just a rumor



*whistling softly*
'No comment,' quoth the accused.


----------



## Leif

Guys, I just had a new thought, inspired by Scott DeWar's directing me to threads where the discussion regards spell abilities in Pathfinder.  Anyway, here it is:

It will be a new FEAT, available at 5th level and higher.  By taking this feat, you become sort of a hybrid Wizard/Sorcerer.  You still have a spell book where you can know, keep, and study an inifinite number of spells, but your spells per day just become SLOTS that can be filled spontaneously with any spells that you have PREPARED.  You can still prepare the same number of spells as a regular wizard, but this gives you a little more flexibility in using the spells, because you can use that 1st level slot you planned for Comprehend Languages to cast another Magic Missile, if that Orc doesn't cooperate and die quickly enough.

So, instead just spells known and spells prepared, it becomes a Three-Tier System:

SPELLS KNOWN, SPELLS PREPARED, and SPELL SLOTS TO FILL SPONTANEOUSLY.

[credit for inspiring this idea goes to Scott DeWar, for getting me involved in the Pathfinder discussion threads where some ideas were being discussed that got my bain turning in this direction. ]

Thoughts?


----------



## Scott DeWar

if the mush i call a brain is thinking right, then i think i understand what you are saying. if whay you are saying is what i think you are saying, then i think i like it. let me mull over it a bit. after all, I am an older old man then you.


----------



## Leif

No, rush, Pops.  You might need to sleep on it first, and then mull it over when you take your geritol tomorrow morning. 

But, just in case my explanation was unclear before, let me try again:

Using this new feat, Wizards still prepare spells in the same way and in the same number that they did before.  The difference is that prepared spells are not plugged in to specific spell slots.  Thus, a wizard with 4 first level spell slots could prepare four different first level spells.  Say, Magic Missile and three others.  But, if this wizard runs into more combat than he planned for, he could use all four of his first level slots to cast Magic Missile.  He wouldn't have to do this, but he would have the option.

Clear as mud?

ps-I'm open to suggestions about what to call this feat, too, btw


----------



## renau1g

[sarcasm] mmmm....ovaltine's rich choclate-y goodness...I bring it to games with my real life group  [/endsarcasm]

Well, I certainly love the idea of this feat and will aim to take it for Xavier, especially being an enchanter (either extremely useful, or useless, depending on enemy). 

Perhaps Arcane Flexibility or Adaptability?


----------



## Leif

Ooops, my bad.  I should have said, 'when s.d. takes his GERITOL,' instead of what I said about ovaltine.

And I like the name, but how about abbreviating it to ARCANAFLEX?

[sarcasm noted, but I still should have said Geritol, because I'm craving ovaltine now!]


----------



## renau1g

Note the edit to the above post.


----------



## Leif

*Arcanaflex*

Ok, this is going to be a totally new development in the world of wizardry that is just about to be perfected by a Professor at Whirtlestaff's (to be named more specifically later).  He's SURE to be awarded Tenure for this one, too!  Our wizards will hear about it soon enough in Quail Valley, from Magus Crus, who is in touch at times with Professor "Jack" Claret, among others.  So, I don't think you get a feat at 5th level, so this won't even be a problem now.  But, if you want to take this feat later, you'll need to return to the Whirtlestaff's campus, and learn it 'at the feet of a master' ('feat of a master,' quoth sd) as it were.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Note the edit to the above post.




Also note the edit to my reply to your response.


----------



## Scott DeWar

ovaltine was for kids, so yes geritol was it should have been.

how about 'adaptable arcanist'?



> learn it 'at the feet of a master' as it were




*gag choke cough hack*
[facishious] that was soooooo cute [/facishious]


----------



## Lou

I like Arcane Flexibility or whatever it gets called.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

At first glance, I like it if I'm playing a Wizard . . . not so much if I'm playing a Sorcerer or DMing the game.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it seems to me this is trying to have your cake and eat it too.

There are only three reasons to take a sorcerer (that I can think of at the moment).  The first - because you like the idea of a 'natural' spellcaster rather than a 'practiced' one - won't go away for much of anything but that's OK because it's only impact is role-play.

The second - a higher volume of spells to cast per day - is offset by the very limited number of different spells a Sorcerer can learn.

The third (and most important to my mind) is the flexibility the ability to cast spells from slots (without preparing specific spells ahead of time) gives the class.  Not only is this one offset by the very limited number of different spells a Sorcerer can learn, there are very specific rules limiting the Sorcerer's ability to change out one spell for another.  This feat would basically make the Wizard a Sorcerer who could change out his entire selection of spells every day, rather than waiting for his next level and only trading out _*one*_ spell then (and that one limited to two levels below the highest level spell the sorcerer can cast).

If I were playing a Sorcerer in a game where this feat was made available, I'd be wondering why I bothered to take all the limitations that come with the class so I'd be able to do what a Wizard could do with a simple feat and still get an unlimited spell selection.

I guess my two cents worth would be - if the restriction of learning specific spells each day chafes you should play a Sorcerer.  If you want the best of both worlds, you should take the worst of both worlds as well and multiclass.


----------



## Scott DeWar

he makes a goed point


----------



## renau1g

The other side of the coin is that sorceror's would still get many more "spell slots" than a wizard, especially of their highest level (and usually most powerful).


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

This is true, the sorcerer would still get to cast more spells per day.  Still limited to the very few different spells he's actually allowed to learn.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade - this could be something that would work for a particular DM or in a particular campaign.  It might even work in this one, and if it is available I'll surely consider it for Manny. Then again, there aren't any Wizard/Sorcerer multiclasses amongst the party (and not likely to be any, I think, though I did consider it at first).

I just wouldn't put it in my games because it seems to me it grants for the price of a feat an ability that makes an entire class unique.


----------



## Leif

Well, shoot!  Thanks, Mowgli, for raining so thoroughly on my beautiful parade!  I have to admit that you do have a point.  But, on the other hand, the whole idea of this campaign is to play Wizards.  I'm not even talking about anything that would extend beyond the borders of this specific game.  In fact, I'd limit it even further by limiting it to Wizards trained at Whirtlestaff's Academy.  But, what we could do, if it would make you feel any better at all, would be to make it take two feat slots, so if you put your 6th level feat towards it, you'd have to give up one of your earlier feats or else wait until you had two feat slots to spend on it.  Does that help at all?

(Anyway, I have great contempt for Sorcerers!  Well, maybe not....)

SD:  feats don't fail me now!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

You know me - rain is my specialty .

But I won't feel bad at all if you decide to put the feat (whatever it is eventually called) into your game - it _is_ your world, and I'm not (nor is anyone else right now) playing a Sorcerer so my proverbial toes aren't getting stepped on. (And I remember well your thoughts on Sorcerers from the development of the 'Southern Operatives' game - something like "Why in the world would anyone want to play a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard?") As I said, I'd surely consider taking it for Manny!

I was just offering my opinion, since you were kind enough to ask it.


----------



## Leif

Well, for that, I thank you, Sir Mowgli.  Keep practicing that rain dance, too.  You never know when it might come in handy.  The opinions are all appreciated, received, logged, and noted.  I may or may not (probably will in some form) make a version of this new feat avaialbe to you when you level up to 6th.  (At least, I _think_ that's your next regularly scheduled feat...)


----------



## renau1g

Ahh...I was thinking that for the 5th lvl bonus feat to wizards, maybe we could swap it out for this one.


----------



## Leif

So Wizards get a scheduled Bonus Feat at 5th, and a Regular Feat at 6th, is that right?  Then I guess we'll have to add another bonus feat at 7th. *sigh* You'll be getting a feat every level pretty soon!


----------



## renau1g

Like 4e ... I'll admit I'm spoiled by the gluttony of feats in that edition.


----------



## Leif

Gluttony of feats in 4E?  I hadn't noticed that.  I thought the feats were about like 3.5, but I guess Iwas wrong?  I'll have to look again.


----------



## Leif

*New Feat:  Arcane (Specialist) Adaptability*

Previously, I had used this wording:  "Using this new feat, Wizards still prepare spells in the same way and in the same number that they did before. The difference is that prepared spells are not plugged in to specific spell slots. Thus, a wizard with 4 first level spell slots could prepare four different first level spells. Say, Magic Missile and three others. But, if this wizard runs into more combat than he planned for, he could use all four of his first level slots to cast Magic Missile. He wouldn't have to do this, but he would have the option."


But now I think I'll make another change:

*Arcane Specialist Adaptability* is a feat avaiable to Speciallist Wizards of at least 6th level.  The feat works like this:  the wizard selects and prepares his spells for the normal number of standard and bonus spell slots as usual.  But, he has the option, instead of casting a prepared spell of another school, to spontaneously cast any spell he knows of his specialist school of the same level or lower. 

Now what does everyone think?


----------



## renau1g

well...by the time you get to 12th level you have 8 feats vs 4 in 3.5e, at lvl 20 you have 12 vs. 6 in 3.5e.

You get them at approx. every other level ( a little faster than that, 1/1.67 levels)


----------



## Leif

Yes, but your arithmetic does not include the bonus feats that almost every 3.5 class gets.  Fighters get a TON of bonus feats!


----------



## Leif

Actually, if I had been thinking, I would have also given Magical Aptitude and Expanded Spellbook to all of our wizards as bonus feats.  Oh, well, too late now!


----------



## Leif

Renau1g and Lou, you both have Xavier's xp listed wrong.  It should now be 11, 094 (I think?), or about that anyway.  Capizzzio and Tylara have the exact number down.  No big deal, I guess, but, well, nevermind.


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> Yes, but your arithmetic does not include the bonus feats that almost every 3.5 class gets.  Fighters get a TON of bonus feats!




Very true, but those are available to every class & aren't limited in what you can choose... if you really wanted to have a fighter pick up the Ritual Caster feat it's available.

I'll update Xavier's XP


----------



## renau1g

Does that mean we're 5th level?


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Does that mean we're 5th level?



It means that you will be 5th very soon!  Sufficient xp were gained in taking out the above-ground hobgoblins in the keep.  The general consensus of the party was to continue exploring the dungeon, finish the module, and THEN return to Pembrose (if Magus Crus is still there) or Whirtlestaff's and level up.


----------



## renau1g

Sounds good. Thanks for the update....I can't wait!


----------



## Leif

You're very welcome!  

And, if I may say so, if Lou has his character planned out, perhaps we could introduce "her"(?) now and let you take over Xavier immediately?   We could either have "her" appearance be a deus ex machina event, or slap together some 'plausible' story for it, makes no real difference to me.  There is not really much reason for Lou to even have full stats at this point.  Just a rough concept would do for now, and then he could finish "her" once the adventure ends, and level "her" up to 5th as well.


----------



## Leif

Please check out the Whirltestaff's Blog's new post today about the direction in which you want the game to go, and shower me with your many and varied opinions about what we should do next.  If you can't find the Whirtlestaff's blog, it's linked in my profile, but, really, "Whirtlestaff's" and "Blog" should lead a visually-impaired moron to it.   ("Moron" IS a politically correct term, isn't it?)


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> ("Moron" IS a politically correct term, isn't it?)





It is... how very PC of you.


----------



## Leif

So.  What is the deal?  Why haven't you blogged yet?  Are you  _trying_ to afflict me?


----------



## renau1g

I can't figure out how to reply to your blog...I'm technically impaired


----------



## Scott DeWar

lou said:


> ooc:  I'm here, just haven't been feeling well, must be getting old!






leif said:


> ooc:  Cool.  Hope you feel better soon!  Ic update coming ths evening.
> 
> Ooc:  Nah!  You're  not old.  Now, dewar, he's old!
> 
> [sblock=how old is he?]you're just, what, 43 now, bro?  I seem to remember you having a january birthday.  Am i even close to right?  Ooops!  Now i'm thinking maybe it's february, so that would mean you're almost 43, huh?[/sblock]




*ahem* i represent that remark, thank you!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> So.  What is the deal?  Why haven't you blogged yet?  Are you  _trying_ to afflict me?






renau1g said:


> I can't figure out how to reply to your blog...I'm technically impaired




dittos on that here too. can i talk you into copy/paste and e-mail it? I know i can open that up.


----------



## Leif

Ok, maybe the blog thing wasn't such a great idea after all.  I thought that anyone would be able to modify a blog, but maybe I was wrong.  Do you know about this stuff, Scotley?


----------



## Scotley

My understanding is that you can have your own blog, but you can't post to someone else's. So this is OOC thread is really the proper place for such a discussion. To quote from the blog:



			
				Leif said:
			
		

> Ok, the end of the adventure is in sight, sorta. Admittedly, 'closing' this door 'opens' five or six more, but, still, it's a good place to start a different activity if you want. I feel a little bit bad because I rooked most of you guys into this game with the promise that it would be a Wizard's Academy, but you have yet to spend even one measly day at the actual academy.
> 
> But, if you guys don't care about that, we can keep right ahead adventuring just like you're doing now. Hmmm, I might even change the name of the campaign eventually, if we do that.
> 
> Anyway, I'm interested to hear what you guys all think about this, or anything else. So get to blogging here!


----------



## Scotley

I feel no special need to return to the academy. I'm perfectly happy to continue with the threads we already have going. We have a Drow Wizard's tomb to find, an entrance to the underdark handy, a mystery door in the basement of an inn and some orcs with invasion on their minds. Any of that could be fun to explore. I was working from the assumption that the orcs would be the next challenge.


----------



## Scott DeWar

dittos t what scotley says.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'm perfectly happy either way. Adventure is the meat and bread of D&D, of course, but I trust our very creative DM to generate an engaging scenario for us no matter where we are.


----------



## Leif

Ok, great!  (And thanks for the too-kind words, Mowgli!)  Your list of options may be expanding sooner than you think, too.  The White Fist Orcs could be next, I suppose, but they certainly don't have to be. 

Let's wait to hear the opinions of Kerlan, Lou, and renau1g.  (Dang!  We're back up to a super-sized party again!  And for a little while there, it looked like it was going to dwindle down to NOTHING!)


----------



## renau1g

Huzzah! Better too big than too small in PbP (you never know when some jerk will just drop off without notice... *doh!*) . As for the Academy, I'm fine with not returning right away as there is much more opportunity for applied research and experimentation out here than at Whirtlestaffs


----------



## Leif

[Aside, while waiting for posts by Lou and Kerlan]  Lou, sounds like you'd better get to work on that alleged "sister" before too long.  If I tried, I suppose I could stretch the remaining dungeon out for another two weeks, but, if I did that, I'd have a player revolt on my hands and you'd be the only party member left!

And you don't have to stick with Xavier's sister unless you just want to do so.  I've got a way to get other Whirtlestaff's students written into the story any time now.   Speaking of which, I guess Xavier's sister is a Whirtlestaff's student, too?  Wow! A wizard family!  Just like the Weaselys!


----------



## Scott DeWar

However, let me take a rare moment and be the voice of reason and add that it would be very advantageous to level up soon.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> However, let me take a rare moment and be the voice of reason and add that it would be very advantageous to level up soon.



Not to worry, SD, I gotchurback.


----------



## Scott DeWar

as long as there is no knife back there as well...OUCH!


----------



## Leif

*Inspecting SD's back* -- Yep, sorry to report that there is one here!  Ooooh, it's a pearl-handled Bowie, too!  Hold still, and I'll pull it out for ya. 

Anyway, while you may not be able to actually edit my blog, I think you can post comments to my blog entries, which will basically serve the same purpose, which is to make it a vehicle for two-way communication.


----------



## Leif

I see that many of you (I assume it's you, anyway) have now viewed the blog.  No comments, yet, though, I also see.  So, just in case you can't figure out how to leave a comment, which stymied me at first, I've now posted instructions in the 3rd blog post on how to leave a comment.  Hopefully it'll work for you as well.  Please let me know if it doesn't?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> *Inspecting SD's back* -- Yep, sorry to report that there is one here!  Ooooh, it's a pearl-handled Bowie, too!  Hold still, and I'll pull it out for ya.




iiieeeeeeee! stop twisting it! 

arrrgh! and stop trying to push it through!!!!


are you trying to kill m ........

*kathump*


----------



## Leif

Hehehehe!!

Seriously,  would I ever even CONSIDER doing anything remotely like that???  I think not.


----------



## Scott DeWar

and like i said about that halo above your head...it is stolen


----------



## Leif

I think not.  Come 'ere and check the serial number. 

[sblock=serial number?]Actually, it has a CEREAL number -- I got it in a box of Cap'n Crunch! hehehe[/sblock]


----------



## Scott DeWar

[sblock=serial number] that is just bad...CEREAL number . well my halo was stolan ... by me ... no black market purchase here. now if you know womeone who might be interested in buying a slightly used halo, then i just might know someone who knows someone...[/sblock]


----------



## Lou

Leif said:


> [Aside, while waiting for posts by Lou and Kerlan] Lou, sounds like you'd better get to work on that alleged "sister" before too long. If I tried, I suppose I could stretch the remaining dungeon out for another two weeks, but, if I did that, I'd have a player revolt on my hands and you'd be the only party member left!
> 
> And you don't have to stick with Xavier's sister unless you just want to do so. I've got a way to get other Whirtlestaff's students written into the story any time now.  Speaking of which, I guess Xavier's sister is a Whirtlestaff's student, too? Wow! A wizard family! Just like the Weaselys!




I've tried to post 3 times, but each time the post disappears *poof*.

Xavier has the feat Fey Heritage. I was thinking about a Fey-touched or Half-fey or something or other half-sister Francheska Walova who was a Conjurer/Master Specialist (no enchantment or necromancy). Feats would be directed towards better summoning and better familiar. She is older than Xavier and has been studying at another school. She has decided that she needs to transfer to Whittlestaff to improve her training.


----------



## Scott DeWar

is that master specialist or focuwed specialist?

That is supposed to be focused. Speaking of which,I think I need to focus myself here and watch what I type.


----------



## Lou

Focused Specialist requires giving up a third school of magic, I think.  I don't want to do that. 

FYI-my first try at posting from my new Blackberry. I've already learned that I cannot see sblocks on here. 




Scott DeWar said:


> is that master specialist or focuwed specialist?
> 
> 
> That is supposed to be focused. Speaking of which,I think I need to focus myself here and watch what I type.


----------



## Leif

Lou said:


> I've tried to post 3 times, but each time the post disappears *poof*.
> 
> Xavier has the feat Fey Heritage. I was thinking about a Fey-touched or Half-fey or something or other half-sister Francheska Walova who was a Conjurer/Master Specialist (no enchantment or necromancy). Feats would be directed towards better summoning and better familiar. She is older than Xavier and has been studying at another school. She has decided that she needs to transfer to Whittlestaff to improve her training.



Sounds good, Bro.  Really good.  But just to save me a half hour of page flipping, why don't you clue me in to the book and page number of Master Specialist?  Or at least tell me what book it's in?


----------



## Leif

Lou said:


> I've tried to post 3 times, but each time the post disappears *poof*.



Well what do you expect in a game for Wizards?


----------



## Lou

Leif said:


> Sounds good, Bro. Really good. But just to save me a half hour of page flipping, why don't you clue me in to the book and page number of Master Specialist? Or at least tell me what book it's in?




Complete Mage p. 70

[sblock=old] Yeah, turned 43 last Sunday, flu and all.[/sblock]


----------



## Scott DeWar

one big advantage of pbp over table top gameing is that you dont catch viruses from your fellow players.

did you get your flu shot? you are over 40 now lou, so that shoud be a regular thing.


----------



## Leif

Lou said:


> Complete Mage p. 70
> 
> [sblock=old] Yeah, turned 43 last Sunday, flu and all.[/sblock]



thanks, Bro.  I knew I had seen it before.

(And, yes, SD, I got my flu shot last fall, too.  Not that you really even care.  )

Happy Birthday, Lou!


----------



## Scott DeWar

i figured that scotley would have been the one to remind you. after all, scotley being a diabetic means he gets asked 20,000,000 times and the he would have uwed that as an excuse to turn around and ask you 10, 000,000 times.


----------



## renau1g

I'm scared of the flu shot, last time I got it, the next week I caught the flu. Since then I've not caught anything... weird coincidence?


----------



## Scott DeWar

i wouldn't exactly say cowinkydink. the shot has to match the strain. if they guess the wrong strain, the shot has no effect. Even though i am high risk as being a diabetic, i generally fight off the flu when it sticks its goofy face around. it might jsut be an asian thing, or it might be that i am just that bull headed and stubborn (no comments from the peanut gallery, leifr and scotley)

any who, i dont take te shot either. but i am a bit of an anomaly.


----------



## Lou

I did not get the flu shot this year. I kept talking about it and not doing it. When I worked downtown, I got one there in the big cattle call for office workers.

The main flu strain going around Houston, where the flu season starts early, is not covered by this year's shot. The other bad thing around here is that many locally reported cases do not respond to Tamiflu, meaning if your physician doesn't treat for that, your trip to the doctor was for nought. It's been bad enough that the local paper had an article on it.

Thanks, Leif!


----------



## Leif

*The Peanut Gallery Responds*

Did I catch that right, SD?  You say that you're asian?  If so, cool!  I would never have guessed that, though.


----------



## Scott DeWar

My father was born in indonesia, ya know...where the tsanami hit in cristmans of 2007... his father was bornin holland, thus the germanic last name. i have a foto of me that should make you laugh. I need to send it to you. I am to understand that you are a lawyer for thoseof impaired lifves (for the lack of knowing a better descriptor.0 when you see said foto, consider if there is some sort of $$$$ assistance that i can get. E-mail on the way.....


----------



## Scott DeWar

ok, foto sent. i sent to all of the wirtlestaff's peeps, i think.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> My father was born in indonesia, ya know...where the tsanami hit in cristmans of 2007... his father was bornin holland, thus the germanic last name. i have a foto of me that should make you laugh. I need to send it to you. I am to understand that you are a lawyer for thoseof impaired lifves (for the lack of knowing a better descriptor.0 when you see said foto, consider if there is some sort of $$$$ assistance that i can get. E-mail on the way.....



I am a lawyer, yes, but I am working full-time for Abilities Unlimited of Jonesboro, Inc., and so I am not currently in private practice.  However, Lou is a lawyer in private practice, and he's ALMOST as smart as I am and has been a lawyer for almost as long.  (The funny thing is that he's older than I am, too!  )


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> ok, foto sent. i sent to all of the wirtlestaff's peeps, i think.



Cool.  I'll go and check it out.  "Peeps?"  Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Still haven't received it as of 12:58-9 something like that, by my computer clock.


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## renau1g

I haven't either, but I'm not sure if I'm a peep


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## Leif

??  Isn't a 'peep' a baby chicken?  Why would you want to be a baby chicken?


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## Leif

I just got an email from my friend David!  Alas, it was not the David in question here...


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## renau1g

'Cause I'd be Delicious... at least when I grew up...?

Anyways, I sent that stuff over to Rhun that you & I discussed, so he can decide ranger vs. rogue


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## Leif

*Whirtlestaff's Hold-Ups*

or -- 'Stop!  In the Name of Glove, Before You Break My Chart"

Ok, time to tell it like it is:  I haven't posted to the IC thread for so long because I am facing a mapping challenge the likes of which I have not before seen.  There must be a solution that will be not only helpful as a visual aid, but which will also measure up fully to the high, high standards set by all previous Whirtlestaff's maps.  <AHEM! HACK, HACK! BARF!>


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## Leif

renau1g said:


> 'Cause I'd be Delicious... at least when I grew up...?
> Anyways, I sent that stuff over to Rhun that you & I discussed, so he can decide ranger vs. rogue



THANK YOU THANK YOU!!  (Boy, SOMEbody is buckin' for some heavy duty brownie experience points!) 

[re:  Delicious -- Maybe so, but you'd have to bathe in boiling oil first! Personally, I'll pass on that.]


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## renau1g

Leif said:


> THANK YOU THANK YOU!!  (Boy, SOMEbody is buckin' for some heavy duty brownie experience points!)




Trying...I figured I was far into the negative's with the whole, you know, disappearing and all that.


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## Leif

Oh, Yeah!  And here I was about to forget all that.  Thanks for reminding me! Grrrrr!! 

fyi:  I may talk a pretty good game, but it's just not that-a-way.  I'm just tickled pink to have so many enthusiastic players.  See, in my f-t-f games, I always figured that everybody showed up for my games because I showed up for theirs.  ('Cept for Mowgli -- he didn't really DM much.  He just showed up because he didn't have anything better to do.  Especially if I had all the other local DMs playing in my game.)


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## Leif

See, there was Scotley, Mowgli, J Alexander, and me that were the Old Core Group.  Scotley and JA always had good games going.  Me, well, not so much.  Oh, I tried and tried, but I never could really hit my stride as a DM where I could keep a game going for more than a few months.  

Then came the real breakthrough:  Scotley and I were sitting around knocking around some ideas one night, and beforewe knew it, we had the seeds of a campaign.  That was the best time of my young D and D life, Co-DMing with Scotley, telling private jokes at the expense of our players behind the DM screens! (hehe,j/k Mowgli!)

So, it just seemed natural, when we started talking about our ideas for a new world a couple of years ago, that Scotley started the Constables of the 14th Ward thread here.  Well, it didn't seem natural to me.  I knew nothin' 'bout no ENWorld at that time!  But, later on, after my feet were thoroughly wet in the internet mire, it began to see perfectly natural.


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## Lou

Scott DeWar said:


> ok, foto sent. i sent to all of the wirtlestaff's peeps, i think.




I forwarded it on to Master Leif.  His email address was not on the TO: line like I had thought it was.


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## Scott DeWar

re: pic
I sent it to my self and got it. sent it to my brother and he got it. 

re lawyer:
I was aware you were a lawyer (trial type) at one time, before your mva. I had also heard you were a lawyer for mobility impaired(?) persons. I was making fun of my pic, wich you will under stand when you get it. ($#@#$%^%@!!! e mail system.

re peeps
short for people.

re: Renalg

I dont know if i have your email addie yet. i used the same ones from the discusson :wirtlestaff's wizards, bonus feats and the priceof tea in china. scottley, mowgli , Kerlan , lou and leif are those who i know i have the addies of. renalg i do not. sorry.

i have jsut noticed scotley has received the email and has suggested i get immediate medical attention, so i know he has gotten the foto.


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## Leif

Lou passed it on to me.  Thanks Lou.  I'm still a lawyer.  Once you're a lawyer, nobody else wants you, so you have to just remain a lawyer.  Unless you're unlucky enough to become a politician!  But, anyway, now I'm out of private practice, and a corporate lawyer for a company that serves the disabled.  What can I say?  It's a good fit!  But my biggest remaining disability issue is with my speech, and that has improved tenfold in the time since the mva.

So.. I'm not so much a lawyer for the mobility impaired as I am a Mobility Impaired Lawyer. 

And I think I sent you another email so you'll have my address now.  At least, I meant to do that.


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## renau1g

if you send it to my username @gmail.com it'll get to me.


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## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Lou passed it on to me.  Thanks Lou.  I'm still a lawyer.  Once you're a lawyer, nobody else wants you, so you have to just remain a lawyer.  Unless you're unlucky enough to become a politician!  But, anyway, now I'm out of private practice, and a corporate lawyer for a company that serves the disabled.  What can I say?  It's a good fit!  But my biggest remaining disability issue is with my speech, and that has improved tenfold in the time since the mva.
> 
> So.. I'm not so much a lawyer for the mobility impaired as I am a Mobility Impaired Lawyer.
> 
> And I think I sent you another email so you'll have my address now.  At least, I meant to do that.




I thought you threw away your cane? and for your addie, I sent it, I have a record of it. but for sme strange reason, no one else got it apperently except lou and scottley. could you pass it on to renaulg?

re: 







> Once you're a lawyer, nobody else wants you, so you have to just remain a lawyer.  Unless you're unlucky enough to become a politician!



there must be a lot of lawyers who are down on their luck in columbia and jefferson city then!!!


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## Scotley

Don't let Leif's humble bit fool ya, he ran some damn fine games back in the day even before our joint game madness.


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## Leif

Awww, Gee, thanks, Scotley   Yer makin' me blush!

Anyway, I got the thing from Lou and forwarded it on to renau1g.  Guess I should send it to Scotley now, too, huh?

Sorry I've been distracted for several hours.  Now I think it's about my bedtime, too.  You know how old geezers like myself and S Dewar are -- we likes to go to be with the chickens.  I mean about the same TIME as the chickens, not that kinky stuff you perverts are thinking!

Ok, got it sent to renau1g and Scotley.  SD, your fame is spreading like wildfire!

Gosh!  We're almost due for a second OOC thread here, too!


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## Scott DeWar

adtually i received a message back from scottley that he had received it. also its go to bed with the chicks, as in the babes! When you are as good lookin as I , well you know....


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> also its go to bed with the chicks, as in the babes! When you are as good lookin as I , well you know....



Hey!  You don't have to rub it in!  Please be mindful of your less fortunate DM?  PLEEEASE??


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## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Hey!  You don't have to rub it in!  Please be mindful of your less fortunate DM?  PLEEEASE??




*hands Leif a paper sack*

here ya go, will this help?


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## Leif

Actually, I was really hoping to "borrow" one of your babes for a little while.  I promise to return her in almost 'good as new' shape.


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## KerlanRayne

I can't comment on the blog entry either. I found something in the FAQ that might explain that, however. 







> *Allow comments to be posted*
> 
> The Allow comments to be posted option controls the commenting ability of your viewers. When this option is disabled, only you and blog moderators will be able to comment on the entry. If you are allowed to edit entries, you may turn this option on and off after an entry has been published to control the commenting ability as time passed.
> 
> You may set the default for this choice in the Blog Control Panel.



Look into that. Also, we can't post entries onto 'your' blog but you could make a new 'group' for the game and it would have a blog that all of us could post on. 

As for the current game, I hadn't planned on going much further. I was going to have Kerlan make sure that this was the way to the Underdark, and then try to block it off to keep others from using it any more, especially if there is anything else down there. We should probably go back to Pembrose and recharge because we still have a Gelatinous Cube to deal with, then we can look into the Underdark entrance.


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## Leif

Thanks, Kerlan!  I thought that I had allowed others to comment, but I'll double check that now. 

No, actually, I had the comments disallowed.  That's been fixed now.  Thanks again, K!


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## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Thanks, Kerlan!  I thought that I had allowed others to comment, but I'll double check that now.
> 
> No, actually, I had the comments disallowed.  That's been fixed now.  Thanks again, K!



I still don't see it. You might have only changed the default for new posts. Try editing the current entry and seeing if you can change the option there.


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## Leif

KerlanRayne said:


> I still don't see it. You might have only changed the default for new posts. Try editing the current entry and seeing if you can change the option there.



Will do.  Thanks again.


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## Leif

Kerlan, and everybody,

In order to comment on a blog post, first you must click on the title of the blog entry.  That will take you to a screen that has that blog entry, with a place for comments below it.  If that's what you did before, then I'm not sure what's going on.


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## KerlanRayne

Leif said:


> Kerlan, and everybody,
> 
> In order to comment on a blog post, first you must click on the title of the blog entry.  That will take you to a screen that has that blog entry, with a place for comments below it.  If that's what you did before, then I'm not sure what's going on.



I clicked on the title and got to the page with just that entry. It should have a link that says Post a Comment under the comments section, but I don't see it. 

Are you on IM right now?


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## Leif

I just made a new blog post after I allowed the comments, so see if you can comment on that one, ok?  I'll fire up my IM machine now!


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## Scott DeWar

here is a question.
Is there a rason why we cannot discuss what is on the blog here instead?

If there is so much trouble using the blog feature in a  group fasion, then perhaps the ooc thread will work?


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> here is a question.
> Is there a rason why we cannot discuss what is on the blog here instead?
> 
> If there is so much trouble using the blog feature in a  group fasion, then perhaps the ooc thread will work?




Sure!  You know, I kinda thought this same thing, for a minute, but I was having too much fun playing with the new 'toy' of the blog.   But, really, you're right, Sir.


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## Scott DeWar

By the way Leif, I would appricie the dispensing with the 'sir' bit, I was enlisted in the airforce, not officer.

Thank you in advance.


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## Leif

Ok, sorry.  Guess it's just a habit, from my own NCO days in the army reserve, SARGE!  (hehehe, does the USAF have the same saying as the army about that word?)


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## Scott DeWar

let me guess, SARGE is an acranym that means something raunchy, right?


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> let me guess, SARGE is an acranym that means something raunchy, right?



No.  According to my Drill Sergeants, a sarge is a fish that lives at the bottom of the sea and eats "turds," but they used a much more colorful word for their diet.


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## Scott DeWar

I have not heard that before


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## Leif

Well, consider yourself thoroughly enlightened!


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## Leif

FYI:  I have it from Moderators Darkness and Umbran that once you give out a sufficient number of xp to different people (he--Umbran, I think, believes the number to be 50) you can give a second point to someone that you've already awarded.  Then 50 more and you can give a third, and so on.  I've been giving out random xp to folks that I don't even know who have given me some small reason to approve one of their posts.  I should be nearing the 50 mark soon, I hope.


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## Scott DeWar

on another computeer, i have a list of those to whome i have given points to and the date i did it .That way I can cycle through when i get to 50.

that reminds me, i need to get on that list.


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## Leif

I wish that I had thought to do that.  But I figured that it wouldn't matter.  Oh, well.


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## Leif

Forking to new OOC thread.  This thread now closed.
(Yes, Leif's 'chattiness' apparently continues here as well. )

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talkin...staffs-wizards-academy-revisited-ooc-2-a.html


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## renau1g

last post


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## Scott DeWar

you just had to get the last word in, eh Renalg?


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## renau1g

always


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## Scott DeWar

ok, I will letya have the last one then.


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## Leif

Funny stuff, guys.  How about giving ME the last word here?  Can we stop this right here now?  Don't answer that!


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## Scott DeWar

Ok all, here it is...

I have been down with some diabetes complications for the last two weeks and am now geting better. As such I am needing to get caugt up on jobs in progress. On top of that I have got my self hooked into trying for a play.

What that means is iIam going to be working late (I hope) and if I get a part, I will be praticing for my part if I get one. It is for a local community theater, but one that prides itself in prfessionalism.I will still be active in pbp, but i amy be reducing to like a very serious once per day poswting frequency.

Just wanted togive a heads up.

Scott DeWar


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