# Leif's DISCONTINUED GURPS Traveller Game, Recruiting Thread



## Leif (Jul 12, 2010)

So I'm giving serious thought to starting a GURPS Traveller game.  I have one potential player, Scotley.  Don't know how many more I would care to accept, but maybe 1-3 more.  Also not sure when the actual game could begin, as I am not even close to up-to-speed on the GURPS rules yet.  This thread is mostly just for discussion and brainstorming.  So far, it has been suggested that the party be comprised of at least one Zhodani, which is something of a departure from usual Traveller canon, to say the least, which usually places pcs  on the side of the Imperium and makes Zhodani default bad guys.  Should be interesting, to say the least.  

The Zhodani are feared/hated by the Imperium (Humaniti in game terms) because they support and encourage the psionic talents of their citizens.  The word is that they cannot be trusted because you never know when a Zhodani is reading your mind, or what he/she might force you to do against your will.  This is in line with the misunderstanding of psionics by Humaniti, but it may not be all that far from the truth?


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 12, 2010)

Serious thought you say? So if I said I haven't played GURPS more than once or twice (got a 3rd Ed book on my shelf though) and have managed to miss Traveller in 30 odd years of gaming, so am fairly oblivious to much of the setting, that's not a good start, right? Put me at #4 on your 1-3 list, and if you end up with a spare space give me a shout - cos you and Scotley are on my 'would like to get in a game with those guys sometime' list. Blame Mowgli


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 12, 2010)

I wuv me Traveller! And GURPS! That's the first system I ever played. I love it.

As for the filthy Zho...it could be interesting. Maybe some kind of ambassador, or fugitive from the Consulate? What sort of background for this lonely person do you have in mind?


----------



## Leif (Jul 12, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> I wuv me Traveller! And GURPS! That's the first system I ever played. I love it.
> 
> As for the filthy Zho...it could be interesting. Maybe some kind of ambassador, or fugitive from the Consulate? What sort of background for this lonely person do you have in mind?



Somehow, Shay, I had a vague idea that this thread might get your attention!  From our shared Babylon5 game I got the idea that you're fully down with sf gaming.    I just can't get into B5 that much.  I'd rather watch the tv show than play the game.  Too bad it's not available where I live..... 

About the 'filthy Zho' however, Scotley indicated that as his preference without really knowing anything about the race.  I just told him that the Zhodani ship plans looked the coolest to me, so that was what he said he prefferred for a character.  What I was thinking was that the party would be Zhodani merchants, soldiers, spies, whatever is the preference, maybe a combination of all of those and/or some additional ideas that spring up?  Clearly, you'll be the Old Hand at GURPS, so you might have to do some hand-holding to get the rest of us up to speed.   Can you handle that?

And as I think about it more, I suppose that you could all be Imperial subjects (you'll have to _earn_ citizenship, of course) who are in a Zhodani ship for some reason.  Let me know how you folk prefer to proceed, please? 



grufflehead said:


> Serious thought you say? So if I said I haven't played GURPS more than once or twice (got a 3rd Ed book on my shelf though) and have managed to miss Traveller in 30 odd years of gaming, so am fairly oblivious to much of the setting, that's not a good start, right? Put me at #4 on your 1-3 list, and if you end up with a spare space give me a shout - cos you and Scotley are on my 'would like to get in a game with those guys sometime' list. Blame Mowgli



 Wow, I'm flattered!  Actually, I have NEVER played GURPS yet, but the 3rd edition is what we'll be using.  I have 4th as well, but Traveller used 3rd.  2nd edition GURPS Traveller, 3rd edition (revised) GURPS rules.  Go figure.....


----------



## Leif (Jul 12, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> Blame Mowgli



Incidentally, GH, I blame Mowgli for almost EVERYTHING, anyway!


----------



## Leif (Jul 12, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> I wuv me Traveller! And GURPS! That's the first system I ever played. I love it.



So tell me, if we wanted to start a GURPS game with characters roughly the equivalent of 7th-8th level in D&D terms, how many character points are we talking about for the build?  Just based on my extremely limited experience, I would guess maybe 150-175.  Am I even in the ballpark?


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 12, 2010)

Sort of. Though in truth, it's hard to gauge in those terms. 

A GURPS character, in a non-supers game, isn't really much more durable with 200 points than with 100. They don't get harder to kill with experience, like D&D characters do...except in that their skills increase, which has cascade effects on defenses and so on.

So there's no easy common grammar between the games to use as comparison points. The best way I can think of is to say that a level 7 or 8 character in D&D is at the "mid-point" of his or her career, generally. In GURPS, a new character starts at 100-150 character points depending on campaign power level. In sci-fi especially, you can get away with less, because the equipment is better. So we'll say 100cp, plus up to 40 in disads...standard GURPS 3rd Ed starter characters.

Generally characters get 1-3 experience points per session, occasionally with bonuses for mission objectives, rp, etc... Say an average of 2, for a conservative estimate. So then, in theory, if we work out how many sessions it takes to get to level 8 in D&D, we can use that as a benchmark for how many cp to give beyond the initial 100.

I figure, in D&D, a level every 7 or 8 sessions is about right, yes? Well, tellya what, you can now tweak this however you want. If we assume 7 sessions per level, then we add 112cp to the normal starting level. 7 sessions per level, times 8 levels, times 2 cp per session total. Plug in whatever numbers seem appropriate to you.

I think, eyeballing this rough example, I'd start us at 200cp, plus 40 in disads. That's nice and even, and trades well with what I've played in terms of mid-level GURPS (as opposed to high level Supers games, which typically start at 400 or 500 and go from there ).


----------



## Leif (Jul 12, 2010)

disads?  Just guessing again, but you do mean "DISADvantage" character points, don't you? [SBLOCK=example for those who don't know GURPS] Like let's say my character has the disadvantage of being compelled to hold forth a great length on any subject that he thinks makes him sound educated, whether he knows anything about it or not.  This could really be a show-stopper in a play-by-post game, but disregarding that, this disadvantage might buy me about, what, 20 additional character points?  (Character points are what you 'spend' to 'buy' ability scores, skills, etc, etc.)  In practice, this looks very much like taking a disadvantage in HERO, too.[/SBLOCK]

Truthfully, I was thinking more along the lines that these characters would have very little need to take any disads.  I was hoping to avoid them altogether.

And, um, I guess that combat in GURPS Traveller is probably just as deadly as combat used to be in the old GDW Traveller, huh?  In other words, you really don't want to take any enemy on  unless you _know_ you've got a serious edge over him, preferably an edge that he doesn't know about!

And I pretty much want these characters to start out being butt-kickers and name-takers.  I don't want to mess around with piddling crap.  Life's too short!  I need some honest to goodness space opera (the genre, not the FGU game of the same name) and I don't have time to waste while the characters get all "grown up" and figure out who they are.  Is ya wid me???

And one more thing:  The whole image of some dude on his starship with his cutlass by his side is ...  quaint, true enough, but I want these folk to have the potential to be armed to the teeth, with weapons from GURPS Traveller, GURPS Space, and/or GURPS Ultra-Tech. (Oh, man!  GURPS Ultra-Tech has the best goodies of all, too!)  So maybe it's not so much Traveller as I led you to believe?


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 12, 2010)

It just means "disadvantages." 

As for including them...they're always optional. And you can always outlaw 'em. I find they're an entertaining part of the system, but they generally work kind of like alignments...the more you play, the less you actually need to use them. They're meant to provide a mechanical basis for roleplaying (in most cases, though some actually represent limits to the character's abilities, like blindness, or poverty).

Without disads, you might want to bump up the cp count a bit, to keep the power level where you're talking about...though again, in Traveller, a fair amount of your "power index" comes from your gear, not from anything you buy with character points.


----------



## Leif (Jul 12, 2010)

True, true.  But skills, and specifically spaceship skills, is more what I was thinking about instead of combat capability.

You better go back and take a look at my latest edits to post #8.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 12, 2010)

Heh, don't be deceived by the pictures. Traveller is quite futuristic. People don't generally use cutlasses in Traveller, unless they're from a primitive backwater planet. The Imperial Marines are issued cutlasses, but it's more of a Vilani tradition thing than a real combat weapon.

Your average military man will be toting around TL10 combat armor and high energy laser weapons. Well funded units, or space marines, will sometimes have 'battle dress' which is basically power armor, and be toting fusion projectors that can blow through a ship's hull.

Of course, those toys require funds that PC's rarely have access to. Also the Zhodani Consulate's Tech level isn't the same as the Imperium, though it's on par with it. 

Running a Zho crew in Imperium space will be a...challenge though.


----------



## Bluenose (Jul 12, 2010)

3rd or 4th edition GURPS? I have the former, though not the latter. I'll admit to not being the biggest fan of GURPS, but I love Traveller. 

As for dirty mind-ripping Zho characters, I'm fine with that. Been there, got the T-shirt. As a suggestion, rather than Imperial space where Zho ships aren't common and are usually on offical business, how about a trader crew in Vargr space. It's unstable enough that a perfectly normal trip into a relatively safe state could suddenly go wrong, forcing a crew to get out of the area while different bands of Vargr are all trying to sort out who the new 'top dog' is.


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 12, 2010)

Leif said:


> Incidentally, GH, I blame Mowgli for almost EVERYTHING, anyway!




And here was me thinking it was DeWar 

Conscious I'm not really contributing to the whole brainstorming thing - is there any reading that might be useful to get up to speed on the various factions or shall I just let Mr Google school me?


----------



## Scotley (Jul 12, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> And here was me thinking it was DeWar
> 
> Conscious I'm not really contributing to the whole brainstorming thing - is there any reading that might be useful to get up to speed on the various factions or shall I just let Mr Google school me?




Yeah, I thought DeWar was the official whipping boy too, but then we've known Mowgli a lot longer, so there's a history of blame there. 

As for resources:

Leif turned me on this one:
Library - Traveller RPG

and Steve Jackson games' site has a long list of links:

GURPS Traveller: Links

I'm new to GURPS as well, but I did play some Traveler 30 years ago or so.


----------



## Scotley (Jul 12, 2010)

I am the one that opened the Zhodani Pandora's box with a little help from Leif. 

I thought perhaps my character might be a Zhodani Intendant sent to make his way outside Zhodani space as someone in the government decided that the Zhodani should study other cultures with their liars and thieves in order to better understand them. To this end they sent out Zhodani to live in work in other areas and send regular reports back. Not terribly original, but it should make it easy to work with members of other races and go just about anyway the DM wants to run an adventure.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 12, 2010)

So basically, you want to be a Zhodani spy/sleeper agent? 

That's cool, actually. One question is whether or not the rest of the crew is in on it...are we all Zhodani, have you already begun the grand game of fitting in?


----------



## Scotley (Jul 12, 2010)

Given the honesty of Zhodani I can't imagine the rest of the crew isn't in on it. It would be up to you all if you want to be Zhodani or not I suppose. Leif suggested the following in an email:



			
				Leif said:
			
		

> ...you can feel free to pass along the report that I have been gifted today with some new inspiration, thanks to the interest expressed by Scotley, Shayuri, Grufflehead, and Bluenose.  You'll likely be the crew of a Zhodani ship involved in trade from Zhodani worlds across the border with Vargr worlds, and occasional forays to the fringes of the Imperium.  Tech levels of the various races are NOT equal.  The Zhodani lead the way in ship technology, the Imperium leads in cybernetics and other medical technologies, as well as weapons technology.  (Can you say, "Borg?")  The K'kree have made remarkable advances in agriculture.  The Vargr, while not generally overtly psionically endowed, have in recent times shown new signs of developing limited psi talents, namely, they seem to be becoming more and more prone to exhibit high levels of Empathic power with extremely long range.  The Zhodani are taking great interest in this new talent of the Vargr.


----------



## Leif (Jul 12, 2010)

I'm totally cool with the party being agents of the Zhodani.  Take that and run with it, if you wish!

On an additional note, let it be known that I fully intend to work in other settings and ideas from various GURPS offerings, to include Cyber World, Cyberpunk, and Ultra Tech for sure!  Also possibly Ground Forces, perhaps Martial Arts, and almost surely Technomancer at some point.  Is this cool with everyone, or would you prefer a more conventional Traveller game?


----------



## Leif (Jul 13, 2010)

And suddenly the thread fell quiet.  *crickets chirping*  Did I say something wrong?

RE:  "Whipping boy(s)" --Awww, do I have to be limited to just one??   (Actually, I wouldn't have nearly as much fun at ENWorld if Mowgli and DeWar weren't here.)


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 13, 2010)

Sorry, a couple of the haggises got out of their pens last night so I had to round 'em up and by that time it was late and I was tired...

I'm very happy to try some of those other GURPS books if you want to experiment. I might even be able to borrow some. Meantime, I'll fish out the rulebook and have a read - I'm reasonably familiar with HERO so apart from the numbers, the principle of point buy, skills, advantages/disadvantages etc shouldn't be too, ahem, alien. And I'll try that handy link to the Traveller wiki. 

Were you planning on having us ship based a la Farscape/Firefly/Blakes 7/Lexx etc - in which case will we need to fill all the standard pilot/engineer/medic type roles - or will we just book passage if we need to move about and most of the activities will be ground based (or at least on something large and solid like a space station)?

EDIT: WOW! That Traveller Wiki is incredible. I spent 5 minutes reading just the main Zhodani page, so I'd be old(er) and grey(er) before I got through all of it!


----------



## Scotley (Jul 13, 2010)

Per previous discussions, I'm good with a exploring more of the GURPS options with Traveler as the basis of the game.


----------



## Leif (Jul 14, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> Were you planning on having us ship based a la Farscape/Firefly/Blakes 7/Lexx etc - in which case will we need to fill all the standard pilot/engineer/medic type roles - or will we just book passage if we need to move about and most of the activities will be ground based (or at least on something large and solid like a space station)?
> 
> EDIT: WOW! That Traveller Wiki is incredible. I spent 5 minutes reading just the main Zhodani page, so I'd be old(er) and grey(er) before I got through all of it!



Yeah, I was thinking that you'd be on a ship that's basically yours for all intents and purposes, so having the necessary skills to be a starship crew would be a good thing.


Scotley said:


> Per previous discussions, I'm good with a exploring more of the GURPS options with Traveler as the basis of the game.



Cool, so am I!


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 14, 2010)

Alrighty, how would others take to having a Vargr engineer on the ship to fill the 'techie' role if we are trading into Vargr space and beyond?

Is there a racial 'package' of stats/modifiers for other races or just buy to suit based on racial info available?


----------



## Scotley (Jul 14, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> Alrighty, how would others take to having a Vargr engineer on the ship to fill the 'techie' role if we are trading into Vargr space and beyond?
> 
> Is there a racial 'package' of stats/modifiers for other races or just buy to suit based on racial info available?




[sblock=Something like this?] From Alien Races 1
CREATING VARGR CHARACTERS


Vargr characters can be created using the normal Basic Set system or the streamlined template system found in GURPS Traveller.

VARGR RACIAL TEMPLATE (0 POINTS]
So that players won't have to flip between two books. the Vargr racial template given on p. GT83 is repeated here, in slightly expanded formal. This template also codifies the earlier descriptions of Vargr physiology and psychology in game terms.

Attributes
ST -I [-IO points]: DX +1 [lO points]. Vargr are somewhat smaller than Humans, but have faster reflexes.
Advantages
Vargr are smaller than Humans, but have superior senses, faster reflexes and are belief short-distance sprinters. They possess natural weapons (claws and teeth) and protection (fur).
Acute Taste/Smell+3 [6 points].
Acute Vision + I [2 points].
Alertness +1 [5 points}.
Claws (+2 damage) [15 points].
Enhanced Move I (doubles Move, with the limitation that running fatigue begins after five seconds, -30%) [7 points].
Fur (DR 1, keeps wam) [4 points].
Teeth (1 d-1 bite in close combat) [5 points].
Disadvantages
Cannot Kick [•5 points). Due to their digitigrade posture, Vargr can't kick in close combat (unless a foe is prone and the Vargr standing, in which case they can stamp downward), This disadvantage's cost was set at -5 points. Canceling the 5 point cost that Vargr pay for having sharper than-normal teeth.
Chummy {-5 points). This is the famous Vargr gregariousness, a "pack mentality" that leaves them happiest when in groups they have come to find trustworthy, whether among Vargr or not.
Curious (-5 points]. Even more than Humans, a Vargr will go out of his way to investigate new things.
Easy to Read [-10 points]. Vargr find hiding their feelings an alien concept.
Even if the Vargr doesn't say what he thinks (which he usually will), posture. Facial expression, ruffled fur are all easy for other Vargr to read. These cues are also fairly obvious to  Humans, as Vargr are descended from canines
and Humans have been reading their dogs' body language for millennia (the correlation is not total, but  comes close enough).
Proud [-1 point). Vargr are always concerned with their own status within any individual group, and that group's status in society. They are also quick to take offense at racial slights.
Reduced Fatigue (-1 fatigue) [-3 point]. Vargr are good sprinters but lack the long-distance endurance of Humans.
Reduced Hit Points -1 [-5 points]. The lighter Vargr build, Thus, the average Vargr has HT 10 but only nine hit points.
Reputation -2 [-10 points]. Vargr have a universal reputation as chaotic, easily swayed and potentially disloyal.
Features
Vargr average 4" less than a Human of the same ST and weigh proportionally less.
Their hearing is in a higher range than that of Humans, as described under Senses on p. 65. And they react to Charisma, Rank, and Status in different ways than do Human - see the discussion of the appropriate advantages, below.

ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES
Although not required, these modifications are suggested when creating Vargr characters from scratch, or adapting existing GURPS Traveller templates for use with Vargr.
Appearance see p. 815
Decide what color the Vargr's fur will be: usually brown. black, or rust, or a mix of these shades. Some Vargr may have natural gray or white fur, hut these are much rarer.
Charisma see p. 819
The bulk of Vargr have no Charisma. About I in 4 have a +1 Charisma: maybe 1 in 20 have +2. 1 in 100 a +3. one in 500 a +4, and after that, the rarity increases exponentially. For realism and play-balance, GMs should forbid stating Vargr PCs (and possibly others) from having more than Charisma +5.
Vargr react to Charisma bonuses at double value, i.e.. +2 per level. As Charisma equates with dominance, GMs can optionally use a more complex set of rules:
A lower Charisma Vargr reacts to one with higher Charisma at +2 per level of difference between their Charisma.
A higher Charisma Vargr reacts at no bonus to a lower Charisma personage under normal circumstances. However, if that personage does anything that could he perceived as challenging the higher-Charisma Vargr's leadership or position, or acts in an overly familiar or presumptuous fashion (for example, interrupting him, or asking for an unearned favor) the Vargr will react al a penalty equal to  twice the level of difference between their Charisma.
An equal Charisma Vargr reacts at no penalty under normal circumstances, but if the other individual acts in a way that can be construed as challenging them, apply twice the challenger's full Charisma as a penalty.
Charisma and Race: GURPS officially assumes Charisma works across racial boundaries without penalty. For more realism, GMs can assume this is true, but the doubled Charisma bonus only applies when two Vargr interact, or when one of the aliens has a suitable advantage, such as Cultural Adaptability (p. CI23), or has lived among Vargr for some time and also makes a Xenology skill roll.
Challenges: When dealing with reactions and loyalties of a group of Vargr, GMs may also wish to reroll existing reactions whenever a situation changes to create uncertainly as to the relationship between dominant and subordinate Vargr. For example, if a leader's position is weakened by a bad decision, Vargr will reconsider their loyalty.
Variable: Charisma: A Vargr's charisma is closely lied to his self-confidence and his perception of the worth accorded him by others, especially other Vargr. Success or failure at important tasks can cause Charisma to fluctuate. In game terms, GMs should allow Vargr to buy added levels of Charisma with experience whenever they succeed at something that would boost a Vargr's se1f image, especially in public. Note that as a Vargr's Charisma rises, the magnitude of success needed also rises! Similarly, GMs should allow Charisma levels to drop from failure, especially in public. (In the later case. the GM should allow the player to regain such losses without paying any character points for them if subsequent actions make up for it.)
For example, suppose the group is in trouble, and unable to decide on a strategy. A Vargr character lakes command and leads them out of danger. If the Vargr were used to taking such a  leadership role, success wouldn't be worth an alteration in Charisma unless the party was much larger, the danger greater, or the task involved more important than usual. If the Vargr had never done this sort of thing before, his Charisma could certainly rise!
[/sblock]


----------



## Insight (Jul 14, 2010)

I don't know much about Traveller, but I know GURPS fairly well (both 3rd and 4th ed).  I've always wanted to check out Traveller, so I suppose if I threw in for this, it would give me an excuse to learn the setting.

Any opening for a drunk and somewhat lecherous ship's doctor?


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 14, 2010)

And there lies a pitfall of being Zhodani. Among the Consulate, mental deficiencies like addiction and lecherousness are as treatable as physical ailments are anywhere else. It seems like we'll need somewhat convoluted backstories to explain flavorful personality traits that aren't strictly positive in nature...


----------



## Insight (Jul 14, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> And there lies a pitfall of being Zhodani. Among the Consulate, mental deficiencies like addiction and lecherousness are as treatable as physical ailments are anywhere else. It seems like we'll need somewhat convoluted backstories to explain flavorful personality traits that aren't strictly positive in nature...




The crew could still be mixed, couldn't it?  Not having any mental disadvantages sounds kinda boring.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 14, 2010)

It could be. Probably no Imperials in the crew, but there are humans in the Vargr Extents that might work with Zhodani.

This is also EXACTLY the kind of mission Zhodani would put their few 'incorrigibly' antisocial citizens on. Extended space duty outside the Consulate. So if your character loves his flaws and refuses therapy and rehabillitation (a la Dr McCoy), this would likely be where he winds up.

Given those possibilities...I'm in. I'd like another shot at a spunky pilot.


----------



## Insight (Jul 14, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> So if your character loves his flaws and refuses therapy and rehabillitation (a la Dr McCoy), this would likely be where he winds up.




Done and done.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm thinking my character might be a sort of 'black sheep' of a noble family. Enough psionic potential that she can't just be ignored or kept out of sight...but too much scandal-potential to be given free reign. A sort of voluntary exile is worked out therefore. She doesn't have to deal with the Zhodani culture that she finds stifling...and they don't have to constantly waste time, money and influence cleaning up her rebellious messes.


----------



## Insight (Jul 14, 2010)

My initial concept is that my ship's doctor is a sort of twisted version of House and McCoy, though probably not recognizeably either.  If cybernetics exist, he's probably had his liver, spleen, and kidneys replaced (perhaps more than once) and maybe other parts as well.  Perhaps he's a talented cyber-surgeon whose hands became too shaky and he had to resort to taking mercenary work to survive.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 14, 2010)

Neither the Imperium nor Consulate use cybernetics a lot, though prosthetics and replacements for organsare are used.

But the Vargr are a lot less biased against that sort of tech, if memory serves. Might explain why he's out in the Extents...


----------



## Insight (Jul 14, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Neither the Imperium nor Consulate use cybernetics a lot, though prosthetics and replacements for organsare are used.
> 
> But the Vargr are a lot less biased against that sort of tech, if memory serves. Might explain why he's out in the Extents...




In that case, maybe Doc is a "pioneer" in cybernetics and maybe rubbed the medical community the wrong way.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 14, 2010)

Hahaa, that could lead to some sweet monologues.

"They called me MAD at the Imperial University, MAD! But *WHO'S MAD NOW?!?!"*


----------



## Insight (Jul 14, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Hahaa, that could lead to some sweet monologues.
> 
> "They called me MAD at the Imperial University, MAD! But *WHO'S MAD NOW?!?!"*




I am SO down with that.

BTW I plan to read Biotech, Cybernetics, and maybe Robots when I get the chance.

It's been a while since I made a 3rd ed character, so I also need to brush up on that.


----------



## Leif (Jul 14, 2010)

Insight said:


> I don't know much about Traveller, but I know GURPS fairly well (both 3rd and 4th ed).  I've always wanted to check out Traveller, so I suppose if I threw in for this, it would give me an excuse to learn the setting.
> 
> Any opening for a drunk and somewhat lecherous ship's doctor?
> My initial concept is that my ship's doctor is a sort of twisted version of House and McCoy, though probably not recognizeably either.  If cybernetics exist, he's probably had his liver, spleen, and kidneys replaced (perhaps more than once) and maybe other parts as well.  Perhaps he's a talented cyber-surgeon whose hands became too shaky and he had to resort to taking mercenary work to survive.



Welcome!!  Sounds great.



Shayuri said:


> This is also EXACTLY the kind of mission Zhodani would put their few 'incorrigibly' antisocial citizens on. Extended space duty outside the Consulate. So if your character loves his flaws and refuses therapy and rehabillitation (a la Dr McCoy), this would likely be where he winds up.
> 
> Given those possibilities...I'm in. I'd like another shot at a spunky pilot.



Welcome to you, too!



Shayuri said:


> Neither the Imperium nor Consulate use cybernetics a lot, though prosthetics and replacements for organsare are used.
> 
> But the Vargr are a lot less biased against that sort of tech, if memory serves. Might explain why he's out in the Extents...



Keep in mind, however, that what I said before about conventional Traveller canon not necessarily applying is very apropos in this situation, as regards Imperial tendencies.  It is likely that Zhodani still eschew cybernetics ordinarily.


----------



## Leif (Jul 14, 2010)

Let's make it official:  Recruiting is now closed, to all who have not yet posted to this thread.  Those who have not yet chosen a character type should feel no pressure to hurry, though.  Take your time, take your time!  I may need some more lead time to get us ready to start....

With Grufflehead as Engineer/Techie, Insight as Doc, and Shayuri as Pilot, that leaves Scotley and Bluenose who can still choose to play and wow us with their character concepts.  Scotley better play, since this is all his da** fault! 

btw, Insight, I LUVV me some House!  (and McCoy, too)  Also, I have no hang-ups about having more than one character fill any certain role, in fact, it might be wise for you all to at least cross-train a little in one or two other crew positions.  We could still use a weapons expert, a non-medical scientist, a navigator, a diplomat, a language expert, and on and on....  At least one back-up Pilot would seem to be almost a necessity.

What did I say for Character points at start?  I'm thinking 140, but let's go ahead and boost that to 150.  [Now considering 210 character points.]  And no disadvantages worth more than about 5-10 points!  (Yes, it's true, I am NOT an equal opportunity GM.  The ADA is right out!)


----------



## Insight (Jul 14, 2010)

Doc, being a cyber-surgeon (and probably building his own parts and perhaps growing bio-engineered parts), will almost certainly have the biological sciences and some engineering covered.  Probably not astrophysics and chemistry and stuff.


----------



## Leif (Jul 14, 2010)

Ooooh, I likes it!  I'm gonna have fun ruining your days, Insight!


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 15, 2010)

150? Hmm, okay. That's pretty well below the "7th-8th level" range, but it's plenty to start with. I'll have to see if I can dig up the rules for GURPS Traveller now...been ages since I had those books out.


----------



## Leif (Jul 15, 2010)

Ok, I thought you had told me before that it was about right. (Or did I say 160-180 before?)  What, then, would be closer to my stated goal?  200?  220?


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everybody hold fast on the 150 character points whilst I consult with our Resident Expert!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 15, 2010)

My post suggested a 'round' estimate of 200.


----------



## Leif (Jul 15, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> My post suggested a 'round' estimate of 200.



Sorry, then, musta missed that.  Let's go with 210 then.  Will that work?


----------



## Leif (Jul 15, 2010)

Insight said:


> Done and done.



Does this mean that you intend to play a Zhodani Doc?


----------



## Leif (Jul 15, 2010)

I have very little to offer in the way of input for character backgrounds.  Shayuri, Insight, and any other more Taveller-experienced players that we have are asked to please assist any of the others who may need a nudge or three.  I'd be first in line for a good nudging if I wasn't GM!


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 15, 2010)

Given that we're going lite-to-no disads, 210 is good. Reasoning follows:

Standard "novice" starting character is 100pts. 

An advanced non-super character is 300-350pts. This buys a highly skilled character who is elite at whatever they do. In the military, you're Spec-Ops. If you're a merchant, you live in Rekjavik, selling freezers and making a mint.

So it seems reasonable to say that 200ish points represents a midway point between those.

As for nudges, I'm always happy to help. With the caveat that everyone's take on the Traveller universe is somewhat unique to them, I consider myself knowledgeable in the core concepts of the game setting.

For example, our good doctor. I expect he is probably an expatriate of either the Imperium, or the Consulate...either works fine. He now works aboard a ship in the Vargr Extents, because there's basically no interstellar law in force there, giving him a free hand to experiment how he pleases, and develop what he wants.


----------



## Insight (Jul 15, 2010)

Leif said:


> Does this mean that you intend to play a Zhodani Doc?




He'll be human who knows "alien" physiology.  Is that OK?


----------



## Insight (Jul 15, 2010)

How are we going to handle disads and quirks, then?  I'm taking some no matter what, even if I don't any points at all.


----------



## Leif (Jul 15, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Given that we're going lite-to-no disads, 210 is good. As for nudges, I'm always happy to help. With the caveat that everyone's take on the Traveller universe is somewhat unique to them, I consider myself knowledgeable in the core concepts of the game setting.
> 
> [sblock=Our Doctor]For example, our good doctor. I expect he is probably an expatriate of either the Imperium, or the Consulate...either works fine. He now works aboard a ship in the Vargr Extents, because there's basically no interstellar law in force there, giving him a free hand to experiment how he pleases, and develop what he wants.[/sblock]



That's EXCELLENT, thanks!  I may not need as much nudging as I fear that I might.  It's gradually coming back to me, Traveller, that is.  I've never done GURPS before, but I've been reading some and it doesn't seem all that tough.  Now I gotta take on the ship-to-ship combat section!


Insight said:


> He'll be human who knows "alien" physiology.  Is that OK?



Hey, if you like it, then it just tickles the pi** out of me!  I only said what I did because you were talking about being in Zho space, or something.  I gotcha now, though -- our good Dr. Frankenstein uh Strangelove  hmmm, in Vargr territory, so Dr. Saw-wolf??  Anyway, I get the feeling he might be a wee bit on the lam from the Imperium?  Or for whatever reason he's left to pursue his science in ummm a less restrictive environment?  Am I sorta pretty close yet?


Insight said:


> How are we going to handle disads and quirks, then?  I'm taking some no matter what, even if I don't any points at all.



Take all the quirks you want.  Please try to hold yourself to disads with a value of 5-10 cp?  I'm really not looking to have a Captain Pike here.


----------



## Insight (Jul 15, 2010)

Leif said:


> Hey, if you like it, then it just tickles the pi** out of me!  I only said what I did because you were talking about being in Zho space, or something.  I gotcha now, though -- our good Dr. Frankenstein uh Strangelove  hmmm, in Vargr territory, so Dr. Saw-wolf??  Anyway, I get the feeling he might be a wee bit on the lam from the Imperium?  Or for whatever reason he's left to pursue his science in ummm a less restrictive environment?  Am I sorta pretty close yet?




Yes.  They just don't understand!

[sblock]My concept is that Doc is some sort of genius/lunatic when it comes to medicine, cybernetics, and biotech and went way off the deep end while in the Imperium.  His experiments and surgeries got the attention of the wrong sort of people and he was basically told to leave and not come back.  Some people still consider him a misunderstood genius, but he doesn't run into those people too often anymore.[/sblock]



> Take all the quirks you want.  Please try to hold yourself to disads with a value of 5-10 cp?  I'm really not looking to have a Captain Pike here.






I'll take 10pts of disads and some quirks and maybe some more disads for no points.  I have a good character concept in mind and I don't really care about the points.  Kinda wierd LOL


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 15, 2010)

As for my character, I was thinking perhaps...and this is just brainstorming...she is in possession of a dinky free trader type starship that does backwater trade between Vargr worlds and Zhodani fringe colonies. This is the 'exile' I spoke of earlier. The ship comes with strings though...she doesn't really own it. Her family does, and through them, the Zhodani Consulate. She's basically free to do what she wants with it, as long as she doesn't break any Consulate laws in Consulate space. She travels under an assumed name and is cut off from family resources in every way other than the starship.

I'm thinking that perhaps she lets Herr Doktorr rent some cargo space for his mobile laboratory, with the stipulation that he doesn't interfere with cargo or passengers she takes on. A little revenue stream always helps after all.

Then, if the Consulate wants a very low-key, under-the-radar investigation of increased examples of psionic activity among vargr, they just send their agent to rendezvous with the ship, with orders she can't ignore to take this guy where he needs to go and not ask any questions. If they're feeling very generous, perhaps they even pay some for it.


----------



## Leif (Jul 15, 2010)

That all sounds good.  But, actually, I was thinking of letting you have access to a much higher-end ship,  something like an Empress Marava 200-ton Far Trader with 10 staterooms, 49 cargo, and two turrets.  Makes 1.1G, so not that good at sub-light speeds, but it makes Jump 2, though.  Crew is:  Captain/Pilot, Navigator, sensor/commo guy, steward, and two engineers.

Or maybe a Lady of Shallot class or Vanderbilt class Yacht, but that's gonna require more crew than a comfortable-sized adventuring party.  Could use npcs though....

Or, you know, there is always the ship I told Scotley about that made him want to be Zho in the first place.  Hmmm, I'll have to look that one up later in the day today.


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 15, 2010)

Scotley hasn't chimed in with any character ideas yet. As it is *his* game (or at least his suggestion) then I'm going to hold off making any more developments so as to minimise the chance of stepping on any of his ideas. And if he was set on an engineer type, then I'll come up with another idea.


----------



## Insight (Jul 15, 2010)

In case anyone is interested - and this mainly just concerns my character - here's what GURPS Traveller has to say about cybernetics:
[sblock=GURPS Traveller Main Book]Prosthetics to replace damaged or defective body parts are common throughout the Imperium (where technology permits).  Prosthetics that enhance performance beyond Human norms are viewed as scandalous in most of the Imperium (especially those which do not resemble the body part replaced) and are illegal in many places because of their obvious potential for criminal abuse (many worlds still harbor what used to be called a "Frankenstein complex").  Most of the larger passenger starship lines require passengers with any prosthetics to register them before boarding (even some normal prosthetic replacements can interfere with ship systems - so it is claimed).  Free traders, of cours, are not always so picky.  As a rule, the more an implant resembles its biological prototype, the less likely its user is to be hassled.  An artificial hand covered in synthetic skin would be acceptable; a chain saw would not.

Another potential problem is if someone accumulates too high a proportion of cyberware in their body, they may be classified as a robot, and subjected to regulations which restrict robot-carried weaponry.  Robots are considered non-sentient beings in the Imperium (at least under current laws) and do not have the same rights as more meat-oriented citizens.

Imperial technology is fully up to the manufacture of body enhancements, and many Imperial Research Stations are undoubtedly secret factories for the manufacture of cyber implants for use by Imperial intelligence agencies. Megacorporations are also capable of making such devices, and undoubtedly do so more often than they care to admit publicly.  

Note that neural interfaces to computers are not forbidden by most worlds, but most such implants are designed to allow read-only access to public information databases (and they do not always work equally well everywhere).[/sblock]

... and Biotechnology:

[sblock=GURPS Traveller Main Book]The Vilani, for reasons explained elsewhere, were very backward in certain of the biological sciences. The Solomani, however, have made great advances in geneering (genetic engineering), especially cloning. The Solomani have genetically altered several Terran lifeforms to bring them up to sentience, including dolphins and simians (gibbons and orangutans).  While genetic alteration of Humans is frowned upon by most cultures of the Imperium, it has been known to occur (the minor races known as the Iziri and the Wuan, for example).  

Several worlds within the Imperium have created what are effectively minor races through manipulation of their genetic code.  Often, this was to adapt them to conditions on a specific world to make colonization easier; sometimes, the rationale was more unusual.  It is uncommon for these geneered minor races to be found more than a few parsecs from their homeworld in any significant numbers.

Some worlds take a different view and biotechnical regulations are not an uncommon feature of many local planetary law codes.  The only Imperial regulations deal with identity: no person may change their genetic makeup with the intent to commit a crime or defraud, and all present and past genetic codes must be noted in the Imperial identity document.[/sblock]


----------



## Insight (Jul 15, 2010)

Leif said:


> That all sounds good.  But, actually, I was thinking of letting you have access to a much higher-end ship,  something like an Empress Marava 200-ton Far Trader with 10 staterooms, 49 cargo, and two turrets.  Makes 1.1G, so not that good at sub-light speeds, but it makes Jump 2, though.  Crew is:  Captain/Pilot, Navigator, sensor/commo guy, steward, and two engineers.
> 
> Or maybe a Lady of Shallot class or Vanderbilt class Yacht, but that's gonna require more crew than a comfortable-sized adventuring party.  Could use npcs though....
> 
> Or, you know, there is always the ship I told Scotley about that made him want to be Zho in the first place.  Hmmm, I'll have to look that one up later in the day today.




As long as it has a bar or somewhere Doc can ply his Bartender skill, I'm fine with whatever!


----------



## Leif (Jul 16, 2010)

Insight said:


> In case anyone is interested - and this mainly just concerns my character - here's what GURPS Traveller has to say about cybernetics:
> [sblock=GURPS Traveller Main Book]Prosthetics to replace damaged or defective body parts are common throughout the Imperium (where technology permits).  Prosthetics that enhance performance beyond Human norms are viewed as scandalous in most of the Imperium (especially those which do not resemble the body part replaced) and are illegal in many places because of their obvious potential for criminal abuse (many worlds still harbor what used to be called a "Frankenstein complex").  Most of the larger passenger starship lines require passengers with any prosthetics to register them before boarding (even some normal prosthetic replacements can interfere with ship systems - so it is claimed).  Free traders, of cours, are not always so picky.  As a rule, the more an implant resembles its biological prototype, the less likely its user is to be hassled.  An artificial hand covered in synthetic skin would be acceptable; a chain saw would not.
> 
> Another potential problem is if someone accumulates too high a proportion of cyberware in their body, they may be classified as a robot, and subjected to regulations which restrict robot-carried weaponry.  Robots are considered non-sentient beings in the Imperium (at least under current laws) and do not have the same rights as more meat-oriented citizens.
> ...



Again, Insight and EVERYONE ELSE!! -- Typical Traveller canon regarding who can and cannot do what with technology may or may not apply in this game/world.  But, having said that, all of what you have quoted, Insight, sounds quite reasonable to me, or at least most of it.  If I contradict portions of that information later, it is not by accident, it's because I want some things to work differently. 


grufflehead said:


> Scotley hasn't chimed in with any character ideas yet. As it is *his* game (or at least his suggestion) then I'm going to hold off making any more developments so as to minimise the chance of stepping on any of his ideas. And if he was set on an engineer type, then I'll come up with another idea.



Scotley has mentioned something about this to me:


			
				Scotley said:
			
		

> Its all good. I'll try to chime in shortly. I guess I could fill the weapons officer/comm/sensor role in the crew. Since Shayuri is part of our Zhodani spy on the psionic Vargr contingent it makes sense for us to have someone with some advanced comm tech skills to send and receive secure messages with the Zhodani bosses. I guess he'd have to arrange regular shipments since long range comm doesn't really exist.



And about the 'no long range com' thing see my comments above to Insight and in previous posts to Shayuri.  But what Scotley says is probably accurate in general.   (Hmm, gotta dig out my old physics books and try to see what all will be necessary for a 'sub-space' communications array, and whether it is conceivable that they've gotten the size of such critters down to where they can comfortably be mounted on a ship....


----------



## Leif (Jul 16, 2010)

Insight said:


> As long as it has a bar or somewhere Doc can ply his Bartender skill, I'm fine with whatever!



For you, Doc, we'll "make it so!"


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 16, 2010)

Well, the problem with communication in Traveller is that you can't shine signals through jumpspace, and it's the only known way to get things faster than light.

If you want a "hard" science FTL comm, I'd suggest some kind of device using entangled pairs of particles. It would have an abysmal bandwidth...messages would basically have to be sent in binary, one bit at a time...but it would be absolutely, utterly secure and the transmission speed would be instantaneous at any range.

I'd suggest basing its size and weight on the size and weight of a particle beam weapon, and the cost would likely be astronomical.

Honestly, it might work better as Ancient tech. But if you need FTL comms for the story, a quantum entanglement comm has a certain Traveller feel to it.


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 16, 2010)

A question about Psionics then. I read the section in the GURPS 3rd Ed book. Can any of us be psionic? Did you only want 1, or none at all? I've got an idea for something but it's not quite like anything in the book that I can see, and Vargr are supposed to be capable of having abilities so it would theoretically be possible. Would that go against the background idea for the game (i.e. if the Zhodani are spying on Vargr with the talent, would having one on the crew be good/bad/stupid?).

On the brainstorming front, here's something a bit left field so ignore if it's not at all what you want, or tweak bits if it suits. So far our prospective character ideas are engineer, medic, comms officer and pilot. Given Leif suggested that we might be on a ship of a decent size (rather than something like Serenity) there would be more crew. 

So...what about having a (small) squad of marines on the ship - enough for at least one each (and a plot device to replace them if required). If one of our 'jobs' involves something a little more fighty than the crew would like, then we switch hats and play one of the marines. Build them on much lower points, but they potentially get lots of cool stuff from some of the other sourcebooks. If they get hurt, we've got a top doc (!) to put them back together/killed and we either need enough of a pool to replace, or a way of getting more. 

Or, and this might be more fun, to give it more of a Star Trek sort of vibe, maybe we can mix and match the party. I'm thinking this might work in an Ars Magica kind of way (if anyone is familiar with that) where rather than having a Magus and a bunch of 'grogs' (I believe they were called), we've now got a 'named character' or 'star', and 'supporting cast' or 'extras' each. 

If the situation warrants it, one of more of us can play our main PCs, and the others play extras - let's say the 'mission' is to recover a downed shuttle which has crashed on one of the Sword Worlds. We need muscle to fight our way to the base, the engineer to fix it, and the pilot to get us the hell off that lump of rock. 2 extras, 2 stars.

There will be some situations where we all play our main characters, and some where it's just a tear up and we load up the grunts with heavy weaponry and have at it.


----------



## Leif (Jul 16, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Well, the problem with communication in Traveller is that you can't shine signals through jumpspace, and it's the only known way to get things faster than light.
> 
> If you want a "hard" science FTL comm, I'd suggest some kind of device using entangled pairs of particles. It would have an abysmal bandwidth...messages would basically have to be sent in binary, one bit at a time...but it would be absolutely, utterly secure and the transmission speed would be instantaneous at any range.
> 
> ...



Very well then, we'll stick with the Accepted Traveller Canon that comm is ordinarily limited to light speed (c), but we'll also say that a device of the Ancients (quantum entanglement doo-hickey) has been discovered that has the potential to allow practically instantaneous comm across vast distances.  It won't be in common usage yet, but it's out there and some folk can get it.  (Gotta give you something to work for, don't I?)


grufflehead said:


> A question about Psionics then. I read the section in the GURPS 3rd Ed book. Can any of us be psionic? Did you only want 1, or none at all? I've got an idea for something but it's not quite like anything in the book that I can see, and Vargr are supposed to be capable of having abilities so it would theoretically be possible. Would that go against the background idea for the game (i.e. if the Zhodani are spying on Vargr with the talent, would having one on the crew be good/bad/stupid?).
> 
> On the brainstorming front, here's something a bit left field so ignore if it's not at all what you want, or tweak bits if it suits. So far our prospective character ideas are engineer, medic, comms officer and pilot. Given Leif suggested that we might be on a ship of a decent size (rather than something like Serenity) there would be more crew.
> 
> ...



Very cool ideas!  What do the rest of you think about this?  I tend to favor using one group or the other, not mixing and matching, but some may come to like the "extras" more than their first pc, so we could work it that way too so that everyone is playing his/her preferred character?  Ideas?  Comments?


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 16, 2010)

I was thinking the grunts would be just that - guys (possibly in power armour) who fire big weapons at people or blow stuff up. Admittedly if they survived, they would inevitably start to take on some personality, but if they were 100 pt characters instead of our 200 pt 'stars' then I wouldn't see the attraction of playing them in preference. 

Other advantages to having them would be - although they aren't completely expendable - if the situation warrants a big firefight, then there's less 'pressure' not to accidentally kill off a major cast member. Yes, that sort of thing adds drama, but this is one of the areas where I'm of the opinion that films/books/TV shows and the *games* of those settings diverge in that what is dramatic and memorable in the show, might require taking control out of the hands of the players, which is generally not done in rpgs. Rather than having the PCs 'always win', maybe this offers opportunities for heroic sacrifice and/or failure with less possbility of having the whole game disappear down the wormhole because some long terms plots or hooks that the GM has carefully crafted go with the character. 

Don't know, just braindumping now so feel free to ignore rambling


----------



## Insight (Jul 16, 2010)

Since Doc is next to useless in a fight, I wouldn't mind playing a "marine" or something if we have to do extended combat missions.  Or swapping back and forth.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 16, 2010)

Hmm. I rather liked the idea of a smaller ship and crew. Having a cast of redshirts (albeit ones that may become more) detracts from the thrill of the game.  Plus, it doesn't make sense for the premise. If you're going to send in a frigate or cruiser, loaded down with a full complement of Marines, why bother outsourcing? It certainly won't be subtle. Just make it an official project of the Consulate, fully backed by the military.

My impression was that we were supposed to be -quietly- poking around, looking for leads and such...and the Consulate's official position on the subject was essentially 'no comment.'

That said, if we decide we want a Space Marines game, I'm up for that too.


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm good with a smaller ship too. But there'll be 2 of us  (at least) who are non-combatant so if we get into a firefight we might be in trouble. I guess with 4, maybe 5 players, we're struggling to crew an entire ship - is 200 pts enough for us all to be multi-functional (not knowing enough about the game system)? 

I certainly had no plans of having any combat skills at all, and neither does the doc from the sound of it.


----------



## Insight (Jul 16, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> I'm good with a smaller ship too. But there'll be 2 of us  (at least) who are non-combatant so if we get into a firefight we might be in trouble. I guess with 4, maybe 5 players, we're struggling to crew an entire ship - is 200 pts enough for us all to be multi-functional (not knowing enough about the game system)?
> 
> I certainly had no plans of having any combat skills at all, and neither does the doc from the sound of it.




I've built Doc already, so I can tell you what I was able to do with 200pts.  

He can handle a gun, but he's not terribly skilled at it.  He can also fly a spaceship, but more for personal travel than big ships like ours.  He is very skilled in Physician, Surgery, Diagnosis, and so forth, which is pretty obvious given his role.  Due to his interests in cyberware and biotech, Doc is also very skilled in engineering, electronics, armory, and even biochem.  So, he covers some of the "science" backup.  He can also backup as ship's engineer, but I hope that never comes into play!  Especially if he's had a few shots of whiskey!


----------



## Scotley (Jul 16, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> Scotley hasn't chimed in with any character ideas yet. As it is *his* game (or at least his suggestion) then I'm going to hold off making any more developments so as to minimise the chance of stepping on any of his ideas. And if he was set on an engineer type, then I'll come up with another idea.




Don't let me hold anyone up. I'm thinking Zhodani with Psi powers and some communication and ships weapons skills for his crew duties since that niche seems unfilled at this point. He'll have some talent for computers as well. 

I've got a lot of studying to do to make this happen as my Traveller experience is 30 years out of date and my GURPS experience is virtually nil. I do have 60 GURPS and Traveller books to peruse and I'm making my way through them as fast as I can.


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 16, 2010)

Insight said:


> Doc is also very skilled in engineering, electronics, armory, and even biochem.




Care to define 'very skilled'?  I don't have much of a feel for levels of competence in a 200 pt game. Is 14- good enough or would you expect a specialist to be better than that?

What sort of engineering does Doc do? Looks like one that you have to specialise in so a potential points sink. 

As a matter of interest, who is our diplomat/negotiator as that seems like another niche we probably want to fill.

If I throw some ideas out can someone help me with the numbers if I'm struggling?


----------



## Insight (Jul 16, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> Care to define 'very skilled'?  I don't have much of a feel for levels of competence in a 200 pt game. Is 14- good enough or would you expect a specialist to be better than that?




I would say 14 or 15 would be considered "very skilled" or "expert".  Anything higher than that is likely to come with diminishing returns; the points spent on getting a skill higher than 15 isnt worth the slightly increased chance of making super-high rolls, if that even ever comes up.



> What sort of engineering does Doc do? Looks like one that you have to specialise in so a potential points sink.




Engineer-Cyberware and Electronics-Cyberware, mostly.  Oh, also Armory-Cyberware.  The specialist skills generally default to each other with some sort of penalty, so Doc _can_ do other things, just not as well.



> If I throw some ideas out can someone help me with the numbers if I'm struggling?




I'm certainly willing to help out if you need game-related assistance.


----------



## Insight (Jul 16, 2010)

By the way, Doc, despite being human, is well-versed in both Zhodani and Vargyr languages and physiologies.  I think that would make him a natural choice for this crew, despite that he probably sticks out like a sore tentacle.  Or whatever you wierdos have


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 16, 2010)

Hee. Zhodani are human too, actually. They look just like anyone else.

_One could be next to you RIGHT NOW._

@_@


----------



## Insight (Jul 16, 2010)

Hmm.  I didn't get that impression from reading GURPS Traveller.  I still need to brush up a bit more on the setting.  I guess that'll save Doc some points!

Do they have a separate language?


----------



## Scotley (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm up for having some sort of semi-pc grunts about if that makes things easier. They wouldn't have to official marines, maybe more guns for hire types to keep the non-combatants out of trouble. Just a thought. I'm really good to go either way. 

One thing on disads. I don't think Leif was saying we could only have 5 or 10 points worth. I think he was saying that we should have mild ones rather than extreme ones. In other words we could have several 5 and 10 point disads. (Please correct me if I'm wrong oh glorious GM!) Does that allow enough points for everyone to be able fight their way out of a recycled bio-degradable low acid paper bag or hit the broad side of a space tug hanger?


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 16, 2010)

Insight, yep.

The galaxy of Traveller is kind of Cold War-ish.

You have the Third Imperium, which is big and diffuse, founded on the principles of thriving capitalistic trade, and "the Emperor pretty much lets you do what you want, as long as you don't get in his way." Each planet in the Imperium has its own government, its own rules and laws, and its own economy. The laws of the Imperium supercede, but most Imperial law is focused on space, trade, and war. They don't usually mess with local affairs. The Third Imperium is dominated by humans, though it has other races in it as well. Because there are so many relatively independent planets, there are many languages within the Imperium. Fortunaely, the emphasis on trade has emphasized just a handful that a traveler really NEEDS to know.

It's the 'hero' of the milieu, if a rather dysfunctional one, and has a lot of parallels to the United States.

Then you have the Zhodani Consulate. The Zhodani are not ALL psionic, but they are a psionocracy, ruled over by a noble caste of psychically gifted men and women. These nobles are only hereditary insofar as that psionic potential itself is, and any child with psychic potential from any background can be elevated to noble or semi-noble "Intendent" status. Despite this political system, the Zhodani citizenry is well cared for and by and large, happy. Of course, this is because the Thought Police in the Consulate _really read minds._ Discontent is recognized and treated as if it was a disease. By our standards, the Consulate is a creepy, psionically-enforced utopia...maintained through the largest and most effective surveillance state possible. Conformity is prized in the Consulate, and community harmony is one of the highest social values. 

I think it's meant to evoke echoes of totalitarian communism, with a touch of sci-fi flair.

The Consulate is also human-dominated, but is culturally much MUCH less diverse than the Third Imperium. There are nonhumans among the Zhodani, but far fewer as well. The Consulate is also smaller than the Imperium, but not by much. Zhodani have two languages, if I recall right, High and Low. High Zhodani requires telepathy to fully utilize.


----------



## Leif (Jul 16, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Hee. Zhodani are human too, actually. They look just like anyone else.
> _One could be next to you RIGHT NOW._



That's not COMPLETELY accurate, Shay, but close enough for our purposes, I guess.  Zho do have a slightly different physiology from Terrans, but  I suppose they could easily be mistaken for humans from a lower-gravity homeworld.  (At least, that was what I gleaned from the GURPS Traveller material on them.)


----------



## Leif (Jul 16, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Insight, yep.
> 
> The galaxy of Traveller is kind of Cold War-ish.
> 
> ...



This is all good stuff!  Thanks for posting this. 
[I'd have granted ENWorld xp for your post if I was yet able to make another award to you.]


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 16, 2010)

OK, I have a backstory idea for critique/approval - explains quite *why* a Vargr mught be on a ship full of Zhodani, as well as filling my role in the party. If any of this is obviously wrong from the background, please pipe up.

The Zhodani have become aware that some Vargr are beginning to develop psi powers. Naturally, they want to find out more to see if this is a potential threat. They assign psi 'sniffers' (agents with abilities to detect the talent in others) to accompany merchants, diplomats and others who have legitimate reasons for dealing with the Vargr. One such agent encounters a Vargr while conducting routine business (details to be fleshed out if this flies). His spider sense goes off as he realises he has a latent psion on his hands.

Now, while the Zhodani could just nab a few Vargr on the QT and take them away for probing (and probably have!), when the agent in question reports back on his findings, his handler, a particularly cunning and resourceful individual, realises there is a perfect opportunity for a 'live trial' with a willing subject. It turns out the Vargr in question is a skilled mechanic (aside from whatever talent(s) he is capable of developing), but lives a life of relative poverty. So they offer him a job on a Zhodani ship, and say he'll be paid enough to allow his family to raise their standard of living. And of course, if he steps out of line...

The best bit? The Vargr in question is totally unaware of his own psi potential. He thinks he just fixes stuff, not realising that part of his talent comes from his latent ability which may or may not develop either naturally or through training.

I'll need a bit of a steer on his power, but essentially there are 2 ways I can go with it: either have an actual power that costs points (in which case I'm looking for some sort of psychokinesis that allows him to manipulate 'machinery') OR just have high enough ratings in the requisite skills and handwave the fact that the reason he is as good as he is comes from a mix of 'skill' and that little unconscious bit of psychic help. Either way, if there's some sort of equivalent to the HERO Disadvantage of 'No Conscious Control' so he's not aware he's doing it, I'd go down that route.

I'm also thinking of explaining part of his ability through selective Eidetic Memory - can you apply a limitation on a talent like that (you could in HERO with a bit of permission from the GM). What I have in mind here is that he has an incredible memory for devices and how they work, and Eidetic Memory would be one way to represent that. He only needs to see a diagram of a circuit once, ride in a vehicle once, see something out of the ship's window, and if he sees it again he remembers it (and probably knows how it works. And so can probably have a go a t fixing it).

Any thoughts or suggestion how to start putting some numbers on some of this?


----------



## Leif (Jul 16, 2010)

Sounds good to me, GH.  Shayuri or Insight, can you provide the requested assistance? Thanks!


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 17, 2010)

Leif said:


> That's not COMPLETELY accurate, Shay, but close enough for our purposes, I guess.  Zho do have a slightly different physiology from Terrans, but  I suppose they could easily be mistaken for humans from a lower-gravity homeworld.  (At least, that was what I gleaned from the GURPS Traveller material on them.)




I'm not sure what material you mean. GURPS Traveller hasn't changed any of the established Traveller lore on the Zhodani that I'm aware. of. Zhodani are human beings that were transplanted off of Earth during the Ancient epoch. The only differences between them and any other branch of Humaniti are the result of a few millennia of genetic drift...not really that long in evolutionary terms.

I seem to remember Zhodani being, on average, taller and kind of swarthy compared to your average Sylean or Solomani human. Furthermore, there's less variation of appearances among Zhodani...you're more likely to be able to recognize a Zhodani from appearance than you are one of the 'normal looking' human races (Vilani, for example, are immediately recognizable as such due to their altered appearances).

There's no reason you can't house-rule otherwise, of course, and go with the Star Trek "human except for the crinkly facial feature" paradigm.


----------



## Leif (Jul 17, 2010)

Ok, you're right.  But what I said earlier while working from memory wasn't that far off, either.  To quote *Alien Races 1*:



			
				Alien Races 1 said:
			
		

> "Though human in all respects, the Zhodani differ slightly in appearance from humans of Solomani or Vilani ancestry.  They tend to be tall and lithe, averaging close to seven feet tall and roughly 200 pounds.  Complexions are predominantly swarthy and hair color is usually black or brown.  Blond hair is uncommon, but a mutation that occurred on Zhdant in the last 10,000 years made prematurely gray hair twice as common as red hair.
> 
> Zhodani have 28 teeth (as opposed to Solomani and Vilani with 32) and the teeth tend to average a tiny bit larger.  This is not especially noticeable, but it does mean a brief dental examination can identify a Zhodani who has not been surgically altered.
> 
> ...




I'm not sure that they should have used the word "citizens" there, either.  "Subjects" would, perhaps been a better choice.  As I recall from years ago, Imperial Citizenship is something that is not that easy to achieve.  Do I misremember this?


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 17, 2010)

I...think you do. If you're born to Imperial citizens, you're an Imperial citizen.

Most people who live in the Imperium are Imperial citizens.


----------



## Leif (Jul 17, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> I...think you do. If you're born to Imperial citizens, you're an Imperial citizen.
> 
> Most people who live in the Imperium are Imperial citizens.



I _think_ you're mistaken:  most who live in the Imperium are Imperial Subjects NOT citizens.  Citizenship in the Imperium is like citizenship in the Roman Empire, it generally must be earned.  Birth makes you a subject, the way I remember it.  This really doesn't matter for us since the game is set in the Z. Consulate, but if someone wants to be an Imperial Citizen, the option is open.

This is just from my notoriously bad memory, however....


----------



## Leif (Jul 18, 2010)

Leif said:


> if someone wants to be an Imperial Citizen, the option is open.



At the start, I mean.  It's a character creation option.


----------



## Leif (Jul 18, 2010)

Ok, I'm planning to do some reading tonight about citizenship in Traveller. I expect to find that you're right Shayuri.   (Don't you ever get tired of being right ALL the time, about EVERYTHING?)


----------



## Insight (Jul 19, 2010)

Leif said:


> Ok, I'm planning to do some reading tonight about citizenship in Traveller. I expect to find that you're right Shayuri.   (Don't you ever get tired of being right ALL the time, about EVERYTHING?)




Is there something in game terms that states whether you're an Imperial Citizen or not?  I believe Doc will be a Citizen, but apart from Status or something, I'm not sure how else to represent it.


----------



## Leif (Jul 20, 2010)

Insight said:


> Is there something in game terms that states whether you're an Imperial Citizen or not?  I believe Doc will be a Citizen, but apart from Status or something, I'm not sure how else to represent it.



As far as I know there's not, but that doesn't really mean anything, now, does it?


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 20, 2010)

No, because Imperial citizens don't, in game terms, have any real advantages over visitors to the Imperium. Anyone can buy, sell, watch movies, fly ships...etc. Oh, I imagine there's a bit more red tape (depending on the planet), but a visitor to the Imperium can do most of the things a citizen can.

Status in the Imperium means you're a member of the peerage, and that carries certain spiffs.


----------



## Leif (Jul 20, 2010)

Ok, so now I'm having thoughts of making the game a more traditional Traveller thing, with the "party", "crew", whatever being in the Imperium, and currently working aboard a _Far Trader_, we'd pick up as you make planetfall somewhere in the Regina subsector, and you can stay on as crew with your current billets, jump ship and try to outfit your own vessel, or whatever.  I really don't know.  What say the players?  Which of the possibilities seems more interesting?  Or are there other ideas that someone would care to explore?


----------



## Insight (Jul 20, 2010)

Leif said:


> Ok, so now I'm having thoughts of making the game a more traditional Traveller thing, with the "party", "crew", whatever being in the Imperium, and currently working aboard a _Far Trader_, we'd pick up as you make planetfall somewhere in the Regina subsector, and you can stay on as crew with your current billets, jump ship and try to outfit your own vessel, or whatever.  I really don't know.  What say the players?  Which of the possibilities seems more interesting?  Or are there other ideas that someone would care to explore?




Not having played Traveller at all before, I wouldn't mind going the more traditional route, just to get more of a "this is what Traveller is all about" sort of introduction.  But I'm not too picky.


----------



## Shayuri (Jul 20, 2010)

Given that the vast majority of source material for Traveller is written from that perspective, it would probably make things a lot easier on you, as well as us.

That said, I'm good either way.


----------



## Leif (Jul 20, 2010)

Ok, we'll just do it the old fashioned way.  So far, we've had posts from

Shayuri
Insight
Grufflehead
Scotley
Bluenose

We haven't heard from Grufflehead or Bluenose for awhile, you guys still here and interested?  And for characters, so far, we've got these interests expressed:  Shayuri-pilot; Insight-doc; Scotley-engineer.  Everybody still good with those?  (I know Shayuri is!)


----------



## Insight (Jul 20, 2010)

If we're not going the Zhodani crew route, I'm going to re-work Doc Hannigan a bit to make him a little more useful in combat.  Not a LOT more useful, but somewhat.


----------



## Leif (Jul 20, 2010)

Very well, Insight, sounds good, although I'm not sure how much combat you will be seeing.  My brief scan of GURPS leads me to believe that combat is something that is best avoided, or at least conducted from a safe distance.


----------



## Scotley (Jul 21, 2010)

So does that mean I shouldn't play a Zhodani?


----------



## Leif (Jul 21, 2010)

*Recruitment Now Closed*



Scotley said:


> So does that mean I shouldn't play a Zhodani?



Play what sparks your interest.  You guys about ready for a Rogue's Gallery?  In other words, we'll call that a wrap on recruitment.  All who have posted to this thread up to today are accepted and welcome, and listed in Post #1 of the RG.   If any of you have changed your mind(s) about participation, that's ok, too, but please let us know in the OOC.

RG Thread

And:

OOC Thread


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 22, 2010)

Leif said:


> We haven't heard from Grufflehead or Bluenose for awhile, you guys still here and interested?




Sorry about that. I've been the lucky, lucky recipient of an all-in, no expense spared trip to the ER where I experienced such delights as needles, and tubes (oh god, the tubes *shudder*). Still feeling pretty weak, so obviously the first thing I do is log in to ENWorld...



Leif said:


> And for characters, so far, we've got these interests expressed:  Shayuri-pilot; Insight-doc; Scotley-engineer.  Everybody still good with those?  (I know Shayuri is!)




Hey, no fair! I thought *I* was playing the Engineer - did you not read my wonderful backstory?  Scotley was comms last time I looked...


----------



## Leif (Jul 23, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> Sorry about that. I've been the lucky, lucky recipient of an all-in, no expense spared trip to the ER where I experienced such delights as needles, and tubes (oh god, the tubes *shudder*). Still feeling pretty weak, so obviously the first thing I do is log in to ENWorld...
> Hey, no fair! I thought *I* was playing the Engineer - did you not read my wonderful backstory?  Scotley was comms last time I looked...



Ok, well, someone is engineer.  Sorry about that, and glad you're feeling better!


----------



## Scotley (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm thinking more Comm and Weapons for my character. 

Oh crap. I just realized, we've got a Scotsman for an engineer! How very Star Trek of us!


----------



## Leif (Jul 24, 2010)

Scotley said:


> I'm thinking more Comm and Weapons for my character.
> 
> Oh crap. I just realized, we've got a Scotsman for an engineer! How very Star Trek of us!



hahaha, that's classic!

ONCE AGAIN, I'm going to try to close this thread down.  At least unless we need to recruit more folks later.


----------



## grufflehead (Jul 24, 2010)

You two can stop that line of thought RIGHT THERE!  *mutter, mutter* racial stereotyping *mutter, mutter*

And whaddaya mean 'recruit more later'? Think we cannae handle it, cap'n?


----------



## Leif (Jul 24, 2010)

Grufflehead, I'm going to answer your post in the OOC.  Here's another set of links in case you missed them the first time.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/288494-leifs-gurps-traveller-game-ic.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/284271-leifs-gurps-traveller-game-ooc.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/284270-leifs-gurps-traveller-rogues-gallery.html


----------

