# Heroes Reborn



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Feb 23, 2014)

Heroes TV show returns as a new mini-series with a new cast.


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## Kramodlog (Feb 23, 2014)

Never saw the first show.


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## The_Silversword (Feb 23, 2014)

New cast? No Sylar? New plotline? Im not sure how I feel about any of this. I hope they at least reveal what happened to Claire (and everyone else) after she revealed her power to the world. And did Peter ever get that one chick back from the alternate future that he dumped her in? 

I guess what im saying is, that they had so many dangling plotlines from the original series that if they dont address any of that, and are just starting anew, Im not really interested, I mean whats the point, yaknow?


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## The_Silversword (Feb 23, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Never saw the first show.




Its worth checking out, It was on Netflix. The first season is really good, after that it got really soap operay, with evil twins and what-not.


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## Kramodlog (Feb 23, 2014)

The_Silversword said:


> Its worth checking out, It was on Netflix. The first season is really good, after that it got really soap operay, with evil twins and what-not.



Any twincest?


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## The_Silversword (Feb 23, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Any twincest?




No, sorry to disappoint. It was done in typical soap opera fashion, one of the main characters was killed off, the same actress was brought back in next season as her twin that she didnt even know she had! dum dum duuummmmm!


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## Kramodlog (Feb 23, 2014)

Lame-o-rama!


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## Crothian (Feb 23, 2014)

It is one of the many shows that falls into the category of great idea but poor writing and execution.


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## SteveC (Feb 23, 2014)

I was a huge fan of the original show, and suggest checking it out if you've never seen it. As far as I am concerned, watch season one only, and stop with about a minute left at the end of the last episode. You'll have a completely resolved show that's really quite good.

I am surprised at how many shows have a complete plotline that gets resolved, and then the show keeps going on afterwards with less than satisfactory results.


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## Umbran (Feb 23, 2014)

SteveC said:


> I am surprised at how many shows have a complete plotline that gets resolved, and then the show keeps going on afterwards with less than satisfactory results.




As I understand things, writers often have to approach the first season of the show as if it will be the only season - it needs to be mostly contained, with a beginning, a middle, and an end.

They often don't learn whether they're going to get a second season until late in the process, and the terms of the second and following season are often mucked with by executives (like, "Don't kill that character", "change your core story in such-a-way", and so on).  Writers are then often left scrambling to find ways to continue.

Witchblade is an excellent example - the show was conceived as a simple 13-episode series, with a contained arc.  The network came back to them and said they'd pay a lot of money to have a second season.  BUT, the budget per episode was drastically reduced, and the main actress went into rehab.  There's glimmerings of a good second story n there, but all the signs of difficulty in executing on that story.


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## Herobizkit (Feb 24, 2014)

Also, there was a big writer's strike that cropped up around the mid-second season mark and the story just kinda... stopped.  The writing never got better after it.  

Most people hated the final season, but I kind of enjoyed it.  Season 1 was plain amazing and worth watching.


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## Kramodlog (Feb 24, 2014)

Funny, aside from the first two episodes (the TV movie), the first season was the weakest for me and the third the strongest. The Pegasus ark really helped the second season.


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## sabrinathecat (Feb 24, 2014)

Heroes annoyed me when they decided to nerf the power-copying character to just "the most recent other super he touched" and they took the character I hated and said, oh, she's no dead: she was one of triplets, each with a different power.
I did like that season 3 and 4 had two separate stories each, instead of an overblown season arc, but the stories were too weak and poorly thought out.

What they should do is have a 1st season worked out, and a rough idea for another 2-4 seasons planned in case the show gets continued. Each year should be self-contained so that the show can just end, but have enough follow-through that it can continue on the same threads if extended.

Yes, when shows are continued past their intended end, the results are usually very disappointing.


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## Man in the Funny Hat (Feb 24, 2014)

I thought the first season of Heroes was awesomesauce.  Well, the finale left much to be desired - the closer it got to the final episode the more apparant it was that the writers were struggling to get all the characters into the same place at the same time and to actually pay off on the premise, the catchphrase, "Save the cheerleader.  Save the world."  The final fight should have been a really cool knock-down drag-out but they later admitted that they simply ran out of time and money to do better.

After they resolved that first season arc they really had difficulty in finding something to DRIVE the show forward.  They introduced SO MANY new characters with really interesting powers - characters that could have featured in the stories in all kinds of ways and yet the ONLY thing they seemed to think they could do with them was to just kill them. Even without a constant stream of red-shirted new-power heroes the show had a l_arge _cast and they were going in a half-dozen utterly unrelated directions at once.

They brought back the BBEG for the rest of the series but every freakin' week it seemed that  the episode was being written by a different writer and NONE of them were following any kind of series writers guidelines.  He's a bad guy - no, he's a GOOD guy! - no wait, he's just kinda mean, no he's actually just misunderstood, no he's REALLY monstrously evilly bad, no wait he's good this week...  It was a dictionary example of sophmoric writing: "conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature."  They thought they knew what they were doing because the freshman season had succeeded so wildly but as a sophmore show they only proved they didn't really get it - they had simply lucked out the first year. The show bounced around with a few ideas of possible good directions to take things that were always abandoned or eviscerated after only a few episodes.

The biggest crime was that none of the writers seemed to have read a comic book in their life and after the first season had no clue how a neophyte super-hero should react to anything or what they should do.

I will be interested to see what they do and so I suppose I'll watch it.  New cast with just some cameos of original characters, and all new plot/story - it might work.  But I'm not holding my breath.  They had three seasons after the success of the first to get that show on track and they failed.  If all they're doing is applying the same "formula" of those three seasons to a new cast then it's doomed.


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## The_Silversword (Feb 24, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Funny, aside from the first two episodes (the TV movie), the first season was the weakest for me and the third the strongest. The Pegasus ark really helped the second season.




I thought you said you hadnt seen it? Did you do some binge watching? And Pegasus ark? I dont remember any pegasi in Heroes, are we talking about the same show?


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## Kramodlog (Feb 24, 2014)

I confused two threads about two shows, lol. Seems all shows are the same.


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## Hand of Evil (Feb 24, 2014)

Just need to get placed on a cable network that has no problem pushing the envelope.


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## Nellisir (Feb 24, 2014)

I'm interested, and new heroes/new villains is a plus to me. There ought to be room for more than one story in that universe.  I wouldn't mind seeing a few people come back (Hiro!), but Sylar was overused, Peter was overused, Claire was overused....


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## trappedslider (Feb 25, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> What they should do is have a 1st season worked out, and a rough idea for another 2-4 seasons planned in case the show gets continued. Each year should be self-contained so that the show can just end, but have enough follow-through that it can continue on the same threads if extended.
> .




Not everyone can or is willing to plan like Straczynski did..but even he kind of got screwed over towards the end of B5....


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## bone_naga (Feb 25, 2014)

I though season 1 was great, season 2 was decent but a bit disappointing, and then it was just going downhill.


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## sabrinathecat (Feb 25, 2014)

trappedslider said:


> Not everyone can or is willing to plan like Straczynski did..but even he kind of got screwed over towards the end of B5....




If you're not willing to put in the work, you shouldn't be in the position to do it. Someone else would be delighted to have the job instead.

Yes, Straczinski had always planned for 5 seasons, but there was no "cut" point where the show could have ended with seasons 1, 2, or 3. Cramming seasons 4&5 into 4 was a drawback.

On the other hand, Buffy could have ended at any point--there were no season cliff-hangers (unless you count the dieing bit). Each season ended, and then was continued.


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## Richards (Feb 26, 2014)

As I recall, the original plan for the "Heroes" show was that each season would feature a completely different cast of characters, each coming to terms with their own developing powers.  There might be a cameo or two from the previous season, but for the most part those heroes' stories would have already been told.

And then it became a big hit the first season, and the writers were told by the higher-ups at the network: "Scrap that idea - we want season two to be about the same cast of characters.  Make it happen."  So they kind of floundered around for the following seasons, trying to see what else they could do with Claire, Hiro, Sylar, et al.

This 13-part miniseries actually sounds like they're being allowed to go back to their original plan.  I'm willing to give it a shot.

Johnathan


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## sabrinathecat (Feb 26, 2014)

Yeah, one of the plot points of the later series that annoyed me is when they started saying "Oh, supers have been around for decades, if not centuries, and this is just the latest generation." um, then what was all that build up with the eclipse and such like about in season 1. That made it look like this was a world-changing awakening.

Oh well.

I'll give the new show a try. I hope is is good and succeeds.


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## trappedslider (Feb 26, 2014)

Richards said:


> As I recall, the original plan for the "Heroes" show was that each season would feature a completely different cast of characters, each coming to terms with their own developing powers.  There might be a cameo or two from the previous season, but for the most part those heroes' stories would have already been told.
> 
> And then it became a big hit the first season, and the writers were told by the higher-ups at the network: "Scrap that idea - we want season two to be about the same cast of characters.  Make it happen."  So they kind of floundered around for the following seasons, trying to see what else they could do with Claire, Hiro, Sylar, et al.
> 
> ...





You do do recall correctly,  it was also planned for the Shanti Virus to be released in the middle of Season 2. When the WGA strike cut the season short, the show runners decided that they didn't want to leave the virus arc unresolved. The ending of episode 11 was reshot to have Peter destroy the virus, and the cliffhanger ending was changed from Nathan collapsing from the virus during a speech thanking the people of Odessa for having the courage to quarantine themselves to Nathan getting shot during a speech intended to reveal the existence of super powers just before he was going to say that he can fly. Then there was also the planned Origins spin-off anthology series.


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## The_Silversword (Feb 26, 2014)

Your sig doesnt make alot of sense.


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## Viking Bastard (Feb 26, 2014)

My reaction #1: "What? Of all the shows to get relaunched, they choose Heroes? Seriously? The record holder for the quickest turn-around from awesome to craptacular? Where's frickin' Firefly? Or any other show that actually deserves it?"

Followed by reaction #2: "Well, maybe we'll get to see the original plans for season 2, which was the point it all went horribly awry."


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Feb 26, 2014)

Viking Bastard said:


> My reaction #1: "What? Of all the shows to get relaunched, they choose Heroes? Seriously? The record holder for the quickest turn-around from awesome to craptacular? Where's frickin' Firefly? Or any other show that actually deserves it?"



I don't think there is much of a chance of Firefly being relaunched what with Nathan Fillion finding success on Castle. Maybe if they relaunched it with a whole new crew? But would people really want to see it?


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## Viking Bastard (Feb 26, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I don't think there is much of a chance of Firefly being relaunched what with Nathan Fillion finding success on Castle. Maybe if they relaunched it with a whole new crew? But would people really want to see it?




No, I think it's probably too late for Firefly at this point. It was just such a typical example.


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## WayneLigon (Feb 26, 2014)

Viking Bastard said:


> My reaction #1: "What? Of all the shows to get relaunched, they choose Heroes? Seriously? The record holder for the quickest turn-around from awesome to craptacular? Where's frickin' Firefly? Or any other show that actually deserves it?"




The main problem for Firefly at the moment is getting everyone back on the same page. There was news this or last week of discussions in that direction, for something like mini-arc stories done with 'who we can get back', or something similar.


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## Zombie_Babies (Feb 26, 2014)

Didn't Joss say there's no way in hell he'd bring it back?


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## Viking Bastard (Feb 26, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> Didn't Joss say there's no way in hell he'd bring it back?




I'm pretty sure that was Dollhouse. Dollhouse is finished, no plans (or hope) for more.


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## sabrinathecat (Feb 27, 2014)

I believe the comment for Firefly was "At what point does CPR become Necrophilia?"
I'm curious if there was a plan to continue the story beyond what Serenity finished, or if the overall arc for several seasons got crammed into one 2 hour movie.


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## Kramodlog (Feb 27, 2014)

A comic book series continues where the film left off. Serenity: Leaves on the Wind.


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## trappedslider (Feb 27, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> I believe the comment for Firefly was "At what point does CPR become Necrophilia?"
> I'm curious if there was a plan to continue the story beyond what Serenity finished, or if the overall arc for several seasons got crammed into one 2 hour movie.




the materiel covered by the movie was meant to be season 2 and some of 3 and as pointed out there is a comic the keeps it going, it's currently issue 2 so you can easily get into it, it's called   Serenity: Leaves on the Wind and it's considered canon.

Also Capn' tightpants has expressed interested in buying the rights back from Fox in a number of interviews. Those rights being to the Firefly ident, since that's what is owned by fox.


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## Jhaelen (Feb 28, 2014)

Richards said:


> As I recall, the original plan for the "Heroes" show was that each season would feature a completely different cast of characters, each coming to terms with their own developing powers.



If only they'd done that! I enjoyed the first season quite a bit and didn't really get why they didn't do exactly what you are describing. Imho, this is a feature of all stories involving superheroes: the backstory is the most interesting thing. I think there's a reason we're seeing relaunches of popular superhero franchises rather than continuing their stories after the first 2-3 movies.


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## sabrinathecat (Feb 28, 2014)

Jhaelen said:


> If only they'd done that! I enjoyed the first season quite a bit and didn't really get why they didn't do exactly what you are describing. Imho, this is a feature of all stories involving superheroes: the backstory is the most interesting thing. I think there's a reason we're seeing relaunches of popular superhero franchises rather than continuing their stories after the first 2-3 movies.




I think it has more to do with the writers not knowing how to write a challenging villain for the hero, and the execs deciding that the villain should DIE every time. They always want to kill off the villains. Even superman, who is supposed to be about peace, JUSTICE, and the American Way (including that pesky thing called 'trial by jury').
So, rather than work on a continuation story, just reboot and redo the origin story again and again and again and again and again and again...

Don't get me wrong, backstory is good. But let's have some character development and showing off the super powers. I don't watch super man for angst (like smallville) or dopey laughs (Lois & clark). I want to see a guy flying around, stopping criminals, protecting the planet from aliens, and generally being heroic. (preferably without morals being pounded into my head with a sledge hammer).
This makes me think that the writers of Heroes got it, but the execs giving them orders had no clue what they should be doing.


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## GMforPowergamers (Mar 2, 2014)

I loved the series but always felt we were let down on the big peter sylar fight (I guess they didn't have the budget).

I think they messed up a little at the end of the 1st season, and the writer strike messed up the second season... and by the third season was just a mess


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## Gonozal (Mar 2, 2014)

trappedslider said:


> the materiel covered by the movie was meant to be season 2 and some of 3 and as pointed out there is a comic the keeps it going, it's currently issue 2 so you can easily get into it, it's called Serenity: Leaves in the Wind and it's considered canon.
> 
> Also Capn' tightpants has expressed interested in buying the rights back from Fox in a number of interviews. Those rights being to the Firefly ident, since that's what is owned by fox.




Wasn't that along the lines of what he'd do if he one the 100+ mil state lottery? I remember a quote from him where he said he'd buy back the rights to firefly and make the episodes available on the internet, but I don't think we should bet on that happening.

That being said, Nathan has said on a number of occasions that he'd be up for a reboot of firefly, even after castle took off.


However, even though I loved firefly and serenity I honestly think it's too late now. I don't think any revive of Firefly could come close to the expectations people have.


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