# Off To War... Recriutment/Discussion



## HolyMan

The Treylor Empire is set to invade The Five Kingdoms of Borlim. The Great King of Borlim has sent out word to all the lesser kings to prepare for war. They in turn have sent word to their lords of the lands, all of the kingdoms brace for war.

The PC's will be part of a larger group setting out to join the army of the Great King. This way other player's can join or a player can run another character if they wish to play someone else. These characters are just people that were in the large encampment or whom you meet travelling.

There will be plenty of side adventures on the way to confront the Treylor.

Let me post this I'll add details in the thread.

Threads:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/258310-five-kingdoms.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/257898-rg-off-war.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-house-rules/258313-off-war-houserules.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258495-off-war-ic.html


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## HolyMan

*Details*

About me: I live in Maryland and have been playing D&D for (OMG!!) 25 yrs
has it been that long wow. I can post/check in everyday and am looking to add some great stories to those I already tell about my old PCs.

About the game: Will use D&D 3.5 rules PhB, DmG, and MM only to start. The game will be open to all noone will be turned away what I want to do is have like a campfire setting PC's sitting around talking then as a group forms I'll run a mission/adventure. Leftover Pc's or late comers will be on patrol/guard duty till mission is over or I'll run a related adventure or they could join up to replace characters who die or drop out.


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## Theroc

I can work on a character concept, but I need to doublecheck on a source with you.  I use The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org for my PHB and DMG, but there are items in there that are not included in those sources.  (I am not clear on which things are and aren't.  I know the Psionics weren't in it though.)

So, if I have whacky looking things on my character, just lemme know that those aren't in your sources.

Edit:
Couple questions:
Starting levels/wealth etc...?

And do you have any houserules we should make note of?


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## HolyMan

*Details II*

Characters:

1. I hate to do this but just to start everyone will have to be human since the Five Kingdoms are all human. As the group marches across the land they may be joined by other races as the move close to the dwarven mountains or elven forest.

2. Looking for character concepts more than stats and equipment at first (because I'm still debating on generation). I think everyone will need a trade or profession, now this doesn't mean you have to take ranks in Craft or Profession (but they won't hurt). Just want to know what the character was doing before being drafted off to war.

3. To help with concepts will let everyone know that The Five Kingdoms are just that five seperate kingdoms with a king each. They all have lesser lords of the land and the whole country is ruled by an Overking or Great King.


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## HolyMan

*Good Questions*

Character Generation :

So far I have this-

Starting lvl 1- The PC's are commoners/tradesmen not yet in the lords upper circle but through their exploits they may come to join or lead note:I am going to use a special system to reward xp based on roleplay posts, completed missions, and real time passed (as per LEW- Ilike that rule) So moving up levels will be faster than usually pbp.

Generation: 
1.Abilities- 35pts to buy abilities as per DmG pg 169 (The high points is two fold;1- Humans get know ability adjustment so this helps alittle and 2- the PC's will need to stand out in a crowd)
2.Class-Any
3.Race-Human (again sorry)
4.Skills- houserule please add 2pts to the base of the class you have chosen (i.e. Wizards base skill pts=4, Rogue base skill pts=10)
5.Feat- In addition to human bonus feat all players may select one +2/+2 feat for their charater (otherwise those feats will never be used and again the PC's need to stand out)
6.Equipment-Starting gold will be limited to the average listed for your class(pg 111 PhB). As the characters will be feed and provided for as they travel and when they are sent out on a mission they might recieve equipment from the quartermaster. houserule any character with ranks in Craft or Profession may make a skill check after starting gold is spent and then add that money to there leftover cash.


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## Theroc

Well, for concepts... is everyone here drafted i.e. forced to go?  Or are there volunteers.

Also, what's a +2/+2 feat?


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## HolyMan

It's up to you how you've "joined" the encampment, is your character a warrior who eagerly signed on or do you have a skill that will be useful to the upcoming campaign and were "drafted for the greater good", are you fleeing someone, seeking your fortune after years of work as a poor laborer, this is D&D it is limitless

A+2/+2 feat is one that gives you a +2 to two different skills:

Nimble Fingers- +2 Disable Device and Open Lock checks
Investigator-    +2 Gather Information and search checks

Have fun making a new character!


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## Rhun

I might be interested in playing a ranger (archer) type...perhaps a huntsman, pressed into service. I don't know anything about the Five Kingdoms, though.


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## HolyMan

*Background Info*

Here are some names of key people and places that are common knowledge.

The Great King of Brolim lives in the City of Siere, located at the heart of The Five Kingdoms it is a free city that has five gates each leading to the lands and holds of the other kingdoms.

The Five Kingdoms are:
1.Fanshaw- located out the south gate of Siere the people of Fanshaw are traders. They have coastal towns and are great merchants and sailors.
2.Norden- located out of the west gate of Siere the people of Norden are miners almost the entire kingdom can be found in the Goldhill Mountains.
3.Pesh (PC homeland)- located out of the northwest gate of Siere is mostly farmland in the Valley of Pesh with grazelands to the east and the Kingdom of Norden bordering on the south and east. the mountains extending around and to the north are inhabited by monsters kept at bay by the elven wood that makes Pesh's northern border.
4.Kurkland- located out of the northeast gate Kurkland is the largest kingdom of the five. They deal in horses and hops the wide open land suitable for both.
5.Reygur- located out of the east door of Siere this is the smallest of all the kingdoms and barely holds the name most of it's land to the south is swamp and most Reygurians don't do what is called honest work but those that do deal in dyes, inks, herbs, and whatever else they can harvest from the swamp.

Hope this helps alittle


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## HolyMan

Rhun said:


> I might be interested in playing a ranger (archer) type...perhaps a huntsman, pressed into service. I don't know anything about the Five Kingdoms, though.





Welcome aboard Ranger Rhun

This is a homegrown campaign I have been working on...oh about 8 hours now I just posted all the Five Kingdoms info a commoner of the land would know you'll need to take Knowledge skills to learn more (and I'll have to think up somemore too).


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## Rhun

HolyMan said:


> Welcome aboard Ranger Rhun
> 
> This is a homegrown campaign I have been working on...oh about 8 hours now I just posted all the Five Kingdoms info a commoner of the land would know you'll need to take Knowledge skills to learn more (and I'll have to think up somemore too).




Cool, cool. Unless you add more source books, I'll probably only take Ranger to level 2, and then progress as fighter or something. I dislike animal companions and spell casting rangers.


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## HolyMan

*hey you could help me*

Hey that's almost perfect I'm trying to make Fighter sub classes because not all fighters are ex-merchant guards or meat shields.

I've got ideals for woodsmen, exotic weapon specialist,and gladiators.

Basicly they are fighters but I changed out some feats for skill choices and different feats. example a woodsman wouldn't have heavy and medium armor proficiencies he gets the Track feat and survival and knowledge nature as class skills

Up to you if you'd like to try.


*RG *
http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/257898-rg-off-war.html


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## Rhun

HolyMan said:


> Hey that's almost perfect I'm trying to make Fighter sub classes because not all fighters are ex-merchant guards or meat shields.
> 
> I've got ideals for woodsmen, exotic weapon specialist,and gladiators.
> 
> Basicly they are fighters but I changed out some feats for skill choices and different feats. example a woodsman wouldn't have heavy and medium armor proficiencies he gets the Track feat and survival and knowledge nature as class skills
> 
> Up to you if you'd like to try.
> 
> 
> *RG *
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/257898-rg-off-war.html





I'll check it out tonight when I get home and let you know. Sound good?


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## HolyMan

*Woodsman*

Basicly a Woodsman is a fighter with the following changes:

HD: Go from 1d10 to 1d8; Gains +2 to base skill points
Class Skills same as fighter but add- Hide, Knowledge(geography), Know(nature), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Search, Spot, and Survival as class skills
Skill Points: 6+ Int Mod. (base 2, +2 from HD, +2 from houserule)
Weapons and Armor:loses heavy and medium armor prof. gains Track feat and 2 new class skills; shield prof changes to bucklers only gain 1 new class skill; prof in all martial weapons changes to prof only with throwing axe, handaxe, kukri, short sword, longbow(and composite), shortbow(and composite) gain 6 new class skills
Bonus Feats: progression the same choices different

Complete list- 
Alertness              Animal Affinity
Athletic                Blind-Fighting
Combat Reflexes     Dodge
Endurance            Great Fortitude
Iron Will                Lightning Reflexes
Mobility                Spring Attack
Point Blank Shot     Far Shot
Precise Shot          Improved Precise Shot
Rapid Shot            Manyshot
Shoot on the Run    Quick Draw
Rapid Reload          Run
Self-Suffient          Skill Focus
Stealthy               Toughness
Two-Weapon Fighting
Two-Weapon Defense
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus

There tell me what you think please.
Sounds great


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## Theroc

Your mentioning of a gladiator intrigued me.

The concept I've in mind currently was a sequestered monk learning martial arts which he would later ply in other situations to earn coin for his family.  Gladiatorial combat would showcase that well, and for his combat style, I was leaning more towards crowd pleasing and 'Battlefield control' such as trips and disarms and such to keep his opponent off balance.

Not sure if that sort of theme jives with your image of a gladiator though.

I'd also ask, if you're allowing us to work on things, if I could make a feat that would allow my character to crossclass between Monk and another class(either Gladiator or basic fighter or something), there are examples in Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel, I believe.  I could probably show you a few examples if you'd like, and come up with a similar homebrewed feat for your Gladiator idea, once I get a look at it.


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## HolyMan

*Custom Classes*

What I like to do with characters is let people "swap out" unused feats and skills to better customize their character. Example would be a cleric of Olidammara swamping out heavy armor prof to get Hide and Move Siently as class skills things that keep it balanced. So I have taken the Fighter class and changed things out to add a more gladiator feel to the warrior you could make. Still twinking that class you could help if you really want.


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## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> What I like to do with characters is let people "swap out" unused feats and skills to better customize their character. Example would be a cleric of Olidammara swamping out heavy armor prof to get Hide and Move Siently as class skills things that keep it balanced. So I have taken the Fighter class and changed things out to add a more gladiator feel to the warrior you could make. Still twinking that class you could help if you really want.




Well, being part Monk, armor is obvious something he wouldn't use(though typically, gladiator armor varies, generally light armor is what comes to mind)

So, I'd definitely be willing to swap out medium and heavy armor for something.

I'll take a whack at it tomorrow, when I'm not nearly passing out due to sleepiness.


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## Rhun

Theroc said:


> Well, being part Monk, armor is obvious something he wouldn't use(though typically, gladiator armor varies, generally light armor is what comes to mind)
> 
> So, I'd definitely be willing to swap out medium and heavy armor for something.





Right, traditionally gladiators wore little armor. And if you want monk abilities, armor is definitely what you want to sacrafice. Though it sounds more like you want to play a monk and add fighter abilities to that...


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## HolyMan

*Sleepy?? me too*

zzz...zzzz... huh?

Sorry little tired too will be getting off here before it's tommorrow'

Remember gladiator would be seperate from monk so you would probably have light and med armor as a gladiator specially if you play him as a straight class (a gladiator would wear a breastplate I believe)

Here's the question you need to ask are you a monk first who becomes a gladiator or do you want to be a gladiator who becomes a monk.


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## HolyMan

*Thanks Rhun*

Yeah you have the ideal Rhun a monk then go to fighter we switch out somethings defiently not need like heavy armor and give you class skills in perform and tumble. lose a greater part of the martial prof. to take some extra exotic weapons

Edit: you wouldn't be a typical gladitor fighting in the arena you would look like those Tao monks who dance about with sword and spear and you fight people about the camp to hone your skills and make some coin not to the death


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## Theroc

Rhun said:


> Right, traditionally gladiators wore little armor. And if you want monk abilities, armor is definitely what you want to sacrafice. Though it sounds more like you want to play a monk and add fighter abilities to that...




In essence, that's what I was doing.



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Remember gladiator would be seperate from monk so you would probably have light and med armor as a gladiator specially if you play him as a straight class (a gladiator would wear a breastplate I believe)
> 
> Here's the question you need to ask are you a monk first who becomes a gladiator or do you want to be a gladiator who becomes a monk.




I am aware they'd be separate classes.  I was planning multiclass to reflect his mixed training.

As for which came first: Monk training to ready him for the Arena/ anything else that came to hand.

Edit to reply to Holyman's edit:
Never saw the Tao monks, but yes.  Dazzling others with his 1337 skillz is how he planned to make his money.  If he had to pummel someone with it, that's just fine too.


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## HolyMan

*Duh??*

I'm so dumb!?

Rhun you could change out your animal companion and spell casting abilities That way you don't lose out on the other ranger abilities


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## Rhun

Theroc said:


> Edit to reply to Holyman's edit:
> Never saw the Tao monks, but yes.  Dazzling others with his 1337 skillz is how he planned to make his money.  If he had to pummel someone with it, that's just fine too.




Leet skills? He's only 1st level! LOL.



HolyMan said:


> Rhun you could change out your animal companion and spell casting abilities That way you don't lose out on the other ranger abilities




Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. Let me play around with it and see what I want to do.


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## HolyMan

The Tao they tied bright ribbions and scarves to thier weapons and dance about the forms and you wouldn't have to pummel to make any money disarm/incapacitate, little stunning fist action/subdual damage


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## HolyMan

but you have a great concept started a monk out the monastery
why? what are his goals? Not to fight the Treylir but he's caught up in that for now 

His "arena" is a circle of yelling men who want to see his blood the circle were he learns more about fighting


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## ghostcat

I am definitely interested in this. Unfortunately, or maybe even fortunately, my favourite classes have already been reserved. So I am going to have to look further afield.

Given that you are allowing variant classes, how about Hunter (Druid) from the SRD. The only thing is, the variant does not work as is, as the only distant weapon is a sling. Therefore, it either:

1.	Needs a bow weapon proficiency. Not sure what the trade off would be on this.

2.	Needs to allow Move Silently and Hide as Class skills. Change for Diplomacy and Swim.

What do you think?


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## Rhun

Kinda steps on the toes of the hunter/woodsman PC I was planning on building, though I certainly wasn't planning on using the druid as a base class.


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## ghostcat

Rhun said:


> Kinda steps on the toes of the hunter/woodsman PC I was planning on building, though I certainly wasn't planning on using the druid as a base class.




Sorry. I don't want to step on your toes. I was looking to provide some healing. Hence the druid base class as I have never liked Clerics. I'll leave the hunter to you and switch to a Battle Sorcerer


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## Rhun

ghostcat said:


> Sorry. I don't want to step on your toes. I was looking to provide some healing. Hence the druid base class as I have never liked Clerics. I'll leave the hunter to you and switch to a Battle Sorcerer




That's funny...I'm the opposite. I love clerics, don't really like druids much. I'd play a cleric here if I weren't already playing on in like 4 other games.


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## Theroc

Rhun said:


> Leet skills? He's only 1st level! LOL.




I never said he actually GOT those 1337 skillz yet.  Just that's his goal.

Anyways, Holyman, I'll try to work on that Gladiator class with you, if you'll show me anything you've already worked up since I don't wanna step on your toes if you've already worked something up.


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## wysiwyg

This sounds great! I actually love the racial limitation cos I hate when the sci-fi races are mixed into a traditional fantasy campaign. I guess I'm old fashioned. I also love a world at war setting.

It's also a good idea to not limit the number of participants as this usually the number of pitfall of all threads when not enough responses are given. If this thread becomes a success, you might even want to consider having another co-DM to bolster the number of posts.

Quick question: Do you plan on evolving into a long term campaign or will this be just a short term fling? I'm asking because I would like to join on a long term basis and I can also plan out the PC's progression better.

I have an idea for a variant class I'd be interested in - Bounty Hunter as follows:

*Bounty Hunter *(Modified version of the ranger class. Same as ranger except)
*Remove – *
1. Favourite enemy
2. Wild empathy
3. Animal companion
4. Woodland stride
5. Camouflage
6. Hide in plain sight
7. Spells
8. Skills: craft, concentration, handle animal, heal, know(dungeoneering, nature), use rope

*Add – *
1. Sneak attack as rogue of same level
2. Skills: bluff, disguise, gather information, intimidate, know (local), sense motive, use magical device.

*Change – *
1. Instead of the combat style bonus feat a combat feat of the player’s choice is taken

What do you think?


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## Rathan

I really don't need to be adding yet another game to my LONG list of ones I'm currently playing but a Knights Templar sort of character springs to mind.. some sort of crusading knight on his own personal agenda to fight the almightys war battles.... I'm thinking fighter into paladin at some point.... as you said we'd be commoners at first so I feel it makes no sense to start him off as a paladin... but working into it after a few levels would be ideal I think..... 

any suggestions on house rules for a fighter/paladin of this type HolyMan?

EDIT: Any suggested extra skills added as class skills like you suggested to someone earlier

EDIT EDIT: what kind of religious background do you have for your campaign? Is it Monotheistic like today.. or are you still using the PHB pantheon of Gods and Goddess'??


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## HolyMan

*Just got in from work*

Hello to everyone I am going to be posting answers to everyones questions seperatly so give me a few mins to answer everyone

And wow this is a great response let's keep this up tell al your friends about this campaign and thanks


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## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> I am definitely interested in this. Unfortunately, or maybe even fortunately, my favourite classes have already been reserved. So I am going to have to look further afield.
> 
> Given that you are allowing variant classes, how about Hunter (Druid) from the SRD. The only thing is, the variant does not work as is, as the only distant weapon is a sling. Therefore, it either:
> 
> 1.    Needs a bow weapon proficiency. Not sure what the trade off would be on this.
> 
> 2.    Needs to allow Move Silently and Hide as Class skills. Change for Diplomacy and Swim.
> 
> What do you think?




First off you can play any concept within the posted rules you and the archer/ranger will probably not go out in the same party.Let's say that there's a hunting mission for more food for the camp. I would post to seperate. threads to repersent the two parties going off to hunt in different areas. Think of the Off to War thread as a Big encampment fulll of different people all with one goal- Join with the army and beat the Treylir. I will be running offshots (mini/quick quests) from the main that will have a little bit to do with the major campaign. Hmmm an extra DM almost a must because not all off-shots have to deal with the main thread.

Now about your druid it's all about giving up something to get something.
Multi-class fighter usually being best for this. But trading skills for skills is fine. Maybe keep swim though and lose ride the ride skill is to be a great horseman but you can still ride I mean guide with knees is DC5. What about losing Spontaneous casting for Prof pick any one bow. your choice druid or druid/fighter.


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## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I never said he actually GOT those 1337 skillz yet. Just that's his goal.
> 
> Anyways, Holyman, I'll try to work on that Gladiator class with you, if you'll show me anything you've already worked up since I don't wanna step on your toes if you've already worked something up.




What I have worked up (not much) really my gladiator was a fighter that

Lost- heavy armor for perform/tumble (monk has both)
and limited his weapons that's it.  It was just a stlye of fighter and since he'd have access to weapons from all over he have different weapon choices chosen by the player based on what fighting stlye they want to play. I had a question for you are you a oriental, indie, or someother type of monk. Oh and Perform(mock combat) been looking at shaolin monks on youtube very kool. And I'm working on fighting circle rules.


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## HolyMan

*Welcome aboard wysiwyg!*

I'll try to cover all your questions:

1.I hate when the DM says that the country/world is mostly human and the party is a dwarf, a halfling , two elves and a human

2.Yep I agree it is one of the limits I see to pbp, and co-DM yeah that is like 99.9% likely just from the first day of feedback.

3.Why didn't you say you wanted your Rogue to be a swift tracker just say please and I'll let you. lol 

now I know his bab would not be high but a bounty hunter is just as likely to capture his mark and he diffently should out smart him so combat wouldn't be his main focus

Talk to you again soon.


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## HolyMan

*Welcome aboard Rathan*



Rathan said:


> I really don't need to be adding yet another game to my LONG list of ones I'm currently playing but a Knights Templar sort of character springs to mind.. some sort of crusading knight on his own personal agenda to fight the almightys war battles.... I'm thinking fighter into paladin at some point.... as you said we'd be commoners at first so I feel it makes no sense to start him off as a paladin... but working into it after a few levels would be ideal I think.....
> 
> any suggestions on house rules for a fighter/paladin of this type HolyMan?
> 
> EDIT: Any suggested extra skills added as class skills like you suggested to someone earlier
> 
> EDIT EDIT: what kind of religious background do you have for your campaign? Is it Monotheistic like today.. or are you still using the PHB pantheon of Gods and Goddess'??




Hey, it is no sweat if you don't hop in to this game right at first (xp is not going to be reward for every orc head you bash in) there will be plenty of places to join as the encampment marches across the land.

You won't need to be a fighter first if you really don't want to just play a paladin that doesn't know he's a paladin. He's devout and believes in his patron just doesn't know he his bleesed by them. The druid I just started doesn't know he's a druid he got his holy symbol from his grandfather and doesn't know that he can cast spells with it. He puts it in his belt pouch as a keep sake and after picking berries he puts some extra in his pouch later he has GoodBerries. And I take spells that don't make a great effect or a loud boom lol. Wait till he "accidently" wild shapes he'll go around for days saying he's cursed. But if you go the fighter first route then a true commoner wouldn't have heavy armor prof could gain two skills there and have the prof at lvl1 paladin same with martial weapon profs start without it gain some skills--- Fighter is the best class to "chop up".

No deities as yet have ideals but going to let players tell me the type of god they'd like to worship and build from there. Remember each deity has a champion/paladin to fight for their cause'


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## Rathan

I know spell casting isn't huge for a paladin anyways so I was wondering if I could give the spell casting part of the paladin up for some extra feats along the paladin progression.... one at 1st, 3rd, and 5th in place of his spell casting abilities and the ability to turn undead... I only ask this because I foresee this as a low magic kinda game.... and I could get way more use out of feats than magic and turning could ever give me.... then possibly limit myself to lance and longsword martial profs ONLY for an extra two skills as class skills.... I'd like to keep heavy armor as paladins are pretty well known for being front line well armored tanks heh.... not that I can afford heavy armor at the moment though LOL....


My Proposed Changes to my class.... (I would go strait Paladin if I got this....)

1- Give up what little spell casting and undead turning for 3 feats (1st, 3rd, and 5th...)

2- Give up all BUT Lance and Longsword martial weapon profs. for 2 extra class skills (Listen and Spot)

Thoughts HolyMan? Approval?


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## HolyMan

Just need to know what you mean by 1st 3rd 5th??

Edit:

If your going Knight type keep flail and heavy flail also. still get 2 new class skills

Keep turn undead gain positive energy ability.

And If you lost all spell casting I'd say 4 feats!! first at lvl 5 and then at 10th,15th, and lvl 20


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## HolyMan

*houserule#??*

Turn Undead:

The channeling of positive or negative energy can be used for more than turning undead. I give all my clerics an extra ability to take a turn undead attempt and use it in a way specific to their deity (I thought it was i before e except for their and deity lol).

Healing God- Change turn attempt into one max d8 in a cure spell
Strenght God- Change turn attempt to apply crit modifier on next successful hit even if not a crit.

Things like that because nothing is worse than having all those extra turn undead attempts leftover at the end of the day.

I have alot more houserules than I thought.


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## Rathan

I meant by the 1st, 3rd, and 5th as in I gain bonus feats at 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels by giving up the spell casting of the paladin class for bonus feats at those three levels....

I REALLY like the turning variant you just listed so if I can KEEP the turning part of my character.... but give up just spellcasting for those three feats I'd be VERY happy


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## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> What I have worked up (not much) really my gladiator was a fighter that
> 
> Lost- heavy armor for perform/tumble (monk has both)
> and limited his weapons that's it.  It was just a stlye of fighter and since he'd have access to weapons from all over he have different weapon choices chosen by the player based on what fighting stlye they want to play. I had a question for you are you a oriental, indie, or someother type of monk. Oh and Perform(mock combat) been looking at shaolin monks on youtube very kool. And I'm working on fighting circle rules.




I'm not sure really, it depends on your homebrew world if it has a monastic order which focuses on martial prowess.

Really, this character's motivation is collecting large sums of money to help his family out.  In other words, he's gone to seek his fortunes to give to his poor family.  Figuring he goes off and works for the kingdoms, chances are they'd pay decently if he got sufficiently skilled.

One of the reasons I wanted to mix a fighter-type class in was to level it enough to qualify (eventually) for the weapon specialization feats.


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## HolyMan

Rathan said:


> I meant by the 1st, 3rd, and 5th as in I gain bonus feats at 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels by giving up the spell casting of the paladin class for bonus feats at those three levels....
> 
> I REALLY like the turning variant you just listed so if I can KEEP the turning part of my character.... but give up just spellcasting for those three feats I'd be VERY happy




get the feats before the spell casting (if i had a finger icon to shake at you i would) ah..ah..ah.. shake shake shake check edit page two of this thread which i kept refreshing waiting to see responses lol


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## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I'm not sure really, it depends on your homebrew world if it has a monastic order which focuses on martial prowess.
> 
> Really, this character's motivation is collecting large sums of money to help his family out. In other words, he's gone to seek his fortunes to give to his poor family. Figuring he goes off and works for the kingdoms, chances are they'd pay decently if he got sufficiently skilled.
> 
> One of the reasons I wanted to mix a fighter-type class in was to level it enough to qualify (eventually) for the weapon specialization feats.




"Together, the Dungeon Master and the players make the game come alive."    -quote PHB pg4

Truer words never spoken. * Together * you and I will make this homebrewed campaign come alive.


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## Rathan

no no HolyMan.. these feats would be in replacement of spell casting all together for the paladin..... the feats will do me more good at lower levels as I can have a more well rounded character... My character would never get the ability to cast at all.... in place of this I wanted 3 feats one at 1st, 3rd, and 5th in place of it..... is this not suitable for you?


----------



## HolyMan

*Now lets get started*

You have a ton of questions to answer before you pick your first feat or spend your first skill point.

1.What was your trade/profession before the war started?
2.Not a monstary style monk is o.k. self taught to defend yourself how? why? watched circle fight,picked on by bullies, looking for motives to fight we know your good at it just how did it come about
3.From a monsatary? oriental monks in exile The Treylor Empire has conquered others you could be refugees from some far off place.
4.You have a family is it wife and kids or are your parents and siblings still at home?

And this is a scratch ask anything you want WE will get this done.


----------



## HolyMan

Rathan said:


> no no HolyMan.. these feats would be in replacement of spell casting all together for the paladin..... the feats will do me more good at lower levels as I can have a more well rounded character... My character would never get the ability to cast at all.... in place of this I wanted 3 feats one at 1st, 3rd, and 5th in place of it..... is this not suitable for you?




If you want the feats at start it would be fair to play fighter/paladin what happens if you want a prestige class or at 6th lvl you did want to take a level of fighter(wanting to get weapon specialization) then you only gave up 2 spells for 3 feats??

get the feats as you give up the spells


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## Rathan

so is there any way to get an extra feat at first level... I mean the paladin is REALLY lacking in feats you can actually CHOOSE rather than the normal progression of feats from level and not class.... I really would like a 3rd feat at first level and I'm trying to find a fair way to do it..... any ideas HolyMan?


----------



## HolyMan

Really as I look over the paladin class without the spell casting why would you need to progress past lvl 10??  As a knight Weapon Specialization would be very useful. smite and lay on hands are the only things that rely on paladin lvl let's keep working on this 

So far I think multi-fighter and lose the feats you already get for new class skills and some limited feats


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> You have a ton of questions to answer before you pick your first feat or spend your first skill point.
> 
> 1.What was your trade/profession before the war started?
> 2.Not a monstary style monk is o.k. self taught to defend yourself how? why? watched circle fight,picked on by bullies, looking for motives to fight we know your good at it just how did it come about
> 3.From a monsatary? oriental monks in exile The Treylor Empire has conquered others you could be refugees from some far off place.
> 4.You have a family is it wife and kids or are your parents and siblings still at home?
> 
> And this is a scratch ask anything you want WE will get this done.




1. Was thinking a basic 'farmer's boy' having struck out on his own to help his poor parents& siblings, perhaps one being chronically ill, hence his desperation enough to leave the farm.
2. If I go non-Monastery, what of the Lawful requirement?  (Just wondering as that particular restriction never sat well with me.  I always thought neutrality was more a monk's thing).  If I went this route, he'd most probably have watched circle fights, and practiced the manuevers based on what he saw until he entered them to earn coin.
3. I could do this as well, but I was leaning more towards a younger boy learning these techniques in a desire to quickly acquire wealth... so the non-monastery option seems more fitting.
4. Young man striking out to help his parents and siblings rise from their impoverished state.


----------



## HolyMan

Oh This is to easy just lose heavy armor prof you dont need it now you can get it back if you take a level of fighter limiting your paladin powers (fair) or taking it with a feat choice later also fair

you said it don't need heavy armor right now


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## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> 1. Was thinking a basic 'farmer's boy' having struck out on his own to help his poor parents& siblings, perhaps one being chronically ill, hence his desperation enough to leave the farm.
> 2. If I go non-Monastery, what of the Lawful requirement? (Just wondering as that particular restriction never sat well with me. I always thought neutrality was more a monk's thing). If I went this route, he'd most probably have watched circle fights, and practiced the manuevers based on what he saw until he entered them to earn coin.
> 3. I could do this as well, but I was leaning more towards a younger boy learning these techniques in a desire to quickly acquire wealth... so the non-monastery option seems more fitting.
> 4. Young man striking out to help his parents and siblings rise from their impoverished state.




let's run the 'farm boy' it's what you want the things about your family are all good remember supply lines for war time your father and uncles maybe working the farms to send food to troops

Lawful- as it deals to monks mainly was for the obeys their tradtions and codes for you it still applies LN would suit you acts by tradition and that means the farm thats been handed down over generations must be saved to be handed down/ order and organization are paramount what can be more orderly than a farm were chaos means nothing getting done


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## HolyMan

Will be going to bed in about 1/2 an hour back to work 9am
Back on EnWorld 5pm lol

So...

Rathan start a paladin losing heavy armor for your extra feat 
and think on your patron/deity concept

Theroc make a normal monk (although I don't see many farm boys using shuriken) don't forget Perform(mock combat)


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## Rathan

This is what I've got so far... again the info on his god his a bit short but it covers what it needs to for now....

[sblock=Jorin Renald]Jorin Renald, Faithful of Draminos the One True God

Male Human Paladin 1
Lawful Good
Representing Rathan

XP: 0
Next Level: 1000

Str	14	+2	(6 Points)
Dex	12	+1	(4 Points)
Con	14	+2	(6 Points)
Int	12	+1	(4 Points)
Wis	13	+1	(5 Points)
Cha	16	+3	(10 Points)

Size: Medium
Age 20
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 175
Skin: Tan
Eyes: Blue
Hair: shoulder Length Brown

Total HP: 12 / 12

Speed: 30

Armor Class: 17 (Base 10, +1 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Shield)
Touch AC: 11
Flat Footed AC: 16

Initiative Mod: +1 (+1 Dex)
Fortitude Save: +4 (+2 Class, +2 Con)
Reflex Save: +1 (0 Class, +1 Dex)
Will Save: +1 (0 Class, +1 Wis)
Base Attack Bonus: +1 
Melee Attack (Longsword): +4 to Hit for 1d8+2 Dmg
Ranged Attack (Light Crossbow): +2 to Hit for 1d8 Dmg
Grapple Check: +3 (+1 Base, +2 Str)

Carrying Compasity:
Light: 58 or less
Medium: 59-116
Heavy: 117-175
Lift over Head: 175
Lift off Ground: 350
Push/Drag: 875

Languages: Common, Orc

Specials: Detect Evil at Will

Skills: (Total = Ranks + Ability Mod + Misc) 

Diplomacy (Cha) 8 = 3 +3 +2 [Feat]
Handle Animal (Cha) 4 = 1 +3
Heal (Wis) 3 = 2 +1
Knowledge [Nobility] (Int) 3 = 2 +1
Knowledge [Religion] (Int) 3 = 2 +1
Ride (Dex) 4 = 3 +1
Sense Motive (Wis) 6 = 3 +1 +2 [Feat]
Spot (Wis) 3 = 2 +1
Listen (Wis) 3 = 2 +1


Feats: 3+1
Negotiator: +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks and Sense Motive checks.
Weapon Focus: Longsword
Power Attack
Cleave

Human Racial Abilities:

-Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
-Human base land speed is 30 feet.
-1 extra feat at 1st level.
-4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
-Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.
-Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.

Class Features:

Paladin: 
-Aura of good, 
-detect evil at will
-smite evil 1/day
-given up Heavy Armor Prof. for an extra feat at 1st level
-given up all but Longsword and Lance martial Profs. for two extra class skills (Spot, and Listen)

Jorins Equipment:

Longsword 15 gp
Lance 10 gp
Heavy Wooden Shield 7 gp 
Chainshirt 25 gp
Backpack 2 gp
Bedroll 1 sp
Blanket, winter x1 5 sp
Flint and steel 1 gp
Pouch x4 4 gp
Torches x5 5 cp
Waterskins x1 1 gp
Whetstone 2 cp

Money
Platinum: 0
Gold: 8
Silver: 9
Copper: 10

Draminos is a Monotheistic God in his followers eyes. His followers do not recognize or acknowledge other Gods or Goddess' of any other Pantheon. His followers tend to be very fanatic for this reason and see service to him as a form of repent of past sins. His domains are Good, Law, Protection, and Strength.[/sblock]


----------



## wysiwyg

*Extra Skill Points*

Since we're already creaating a homebrew setting, I'd like to add my 2c -

*SKILL POINTS*
Giving an extra 2 skill points might be used in a way that you don't neccessarily want it to be used. From what I gather, you want the PC's to actually have a more broad/professional oriented background. Take a look at the article that I have attached( *Going Beyond Class Skills: Education Skill System - *Taken from Asgard, March 2002).

*DEFENSIVE BONUS*
You might want to use the rules regarding defensive bonus from UA. This is quite a popular rule that has been adapted by many threads on Enworld (and rightfully so if I may say so myself). Here's the link: Defense Bonus :: d20srd.org

Let me know what you think...


----------



## wysiwyg

One more thing -
Since this thread is picking up quite a few post in a relatively short period of time, it's becoming very hard to isolate the posts that relate to rules or campaign setting or characters. You might want to create a few more threads for each of the above (and later another thread for the game itself of course).

In the meantime, I'm going to be working on a rogue (plain vanilla). He'll be a bored son of a middle class merchant from that coastal kingdom (can't remember the name right now - need to look it up in the earlier post).


----------



## wysiwyg

*Athos d'Mari*

*Appearance*
Athos is a tall, handsome, clean shaven male of about six foot in height and an athletic build. He has short cropped brown hair and steel grey eyes. He is dressed in plain traveller’s clothing and a dark blue cloak around his shoulders. He carries two short blades at his side and several throwing daggers looped between his shoulder and torso on a dagger belt.

*General*
*Race*: Human
*Gender*: Male
*Classes*: Rogue (1st)
*Alignement*: Chaotic Good

*Age*: 17
*Height*: 6”0
*Weight*: 160lb
*Hair*: Brown
*Eyes*: Grey

*STR*: 12
*DEX*: 16
*CON*: 14
*INT*: 13
*WIS*: 14
*CHA*: 12

*Defenses & Saves*
*HP*: 8

*AC*: 15
*Touch*: 13
*Flat Footed*: 12

*Fort*: +2
*Reflex*: +5
*Will*: +2 

*Combat*
*Initiative:* +3

*Short Sword (Standard): *+3 (1d6+1, 19-20/x2)*
*2x Short Swords: *+1/+1 (1d6+1, 19-20/x2)*
*5x Throwing Daggers: *+3 (1d4+1, 19-20/x2, 10’)

* Flanking: +2 attack; +1d6 to damage.

*Feats*
_Stealthy, _Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting Style

*Skills* 
*  Stealth:       *Hide +8, Move Silently +8, Disable Device +4, Open Locks +6
 *Athletic:      *Balance +6, Climb +4, Jump +4, Tumble +6, Swim +4
 *Awareness: *Listen +5, Spot +5, Search +4
 *Social:*          Gather Info. +4, Diplomacy +4, Sense Motive +5
 *Magical:       *Use Magical Device +4

_*Notes: 48* points._ _Each skill has 3 ranks (progression will be 3 points per 4 levels)._

*Abilities:*
Sneak attack +1d6, Trapfinding

*Equipement*
*On Body: T*ravellers’ outfit, 2x short swords, 5x throwing Daggers, belt pouch, leather armor

*In regular backpack: *bedroll, winter blanket, flint & steel, soap, torch, explorer’s outfit, 5x fishhooks , 2x waterskins, thieves tools, hemp rope, crowbar, iron pot, crowbar, soap, 


*Belt pouch:* 32gp, 9sp

*Mount:* Donkey

*Animals*
Donkey - carrying the backpack.

*Background*
_News of the coming war was my redemption. I had enough of sorting through accounting journals and trade agreements in order to appease my father, Orlando the renowned silk merchant of Grimstown. I am seventeen darn it! I need to see something of interest lest I die in this overcrowded town full of nothing but pure boredom. I told Silvia my twin sister of my intentions on the night that I slipped out of the family manor and joined the ranks of the enlisted. Even though the army has dragged the ruffians, thugs and scoundrels of society interested in nothing other than loot and pillage, there are still a few who like me, have joined for the thrill of adventure. It is their companionship that I seek. I feel as if every breath that I take has a taste of freedom that I have just recently discovered. It is sweet...oh is it sweet._

**Speaks in this color**


----------



## Rhun

I should hopefully have something posted for my variant ranger tonight. The weekend is always a busy time for me, and I see I have a lot of reading to catch up on in this thread.


----------



## Rathan

No game has EVER been hurt by giving the players a bit more on the skills end.... especially if this game is not all about combat and somewhat about role play and figuring things out via various skill rolls.... over time for a human that's 44 extra skill points by level 20.... at most.. that's 2 extra maxed skills at level 20 IF you put all those extra skill points in the same two skills.... not that bad if you ask me.. and if HolyMan wants to make sure we as players are more skills balanced rather than combat heavy... then why not right?


----------



## Rhun

I'm with Rathan...no game has ever been hurt by giving extra skill points.


----------



## wysiwyg

I agree (to some extent). You have to remember that the number of skill points, just like the avancement of BAB, is a class feature. You cannot just give it out without compromising some game balance. 

In any event, the attachment I have posted actually gives more skill points, but restricts them to those that would influence game balance the least and makes player characters more well rounded. Read the article first - I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


----------



## ghostcat

HM. I have decided to go with the Battle Sorcerer variant. Although I may decide to change to the Hunter / Druid later.

Here is the first draft of my character. Still need to flesh out his feline familiar. OK its a white and ginger cat called Mogins.

As far as equipment is concerned, I just have armor and weapons. I am assuming that everything else (camping equipment, supplies,etc.) will be supplied by the army.

[sblock="Trinham"]
Male, Human , Battle Sorcerer(1)
Chaotic Good

*Height:* 5' 10", *Weight:* 168 lbs., *Age:* 18
*Hair:*  Blond, *Eyes:* Brown, *Skin:* Fair

*Languages:* Common

STR 12 (+1) [base 12] {4 pts}
DEX 14 (+2) [base 14] {6 pts}
CON 13 (+1) [base 13] {5 pts}
INT 10 (+0) [base 10] {2 pts}
WIS 10 (+0) [base 10] {2 pts}
CHA 18 (+4) [base 18] {16 pts}

*Move:* 6 Squares,30 ft. ACP: 0
*Initiative:*  +2

*Armor Class:* 15 (10 Base, +2 Ability, +3 Armor)

*Hit Points:* 9 (1st Level: [8 +1(con mod)])
*BAB:* +0, Melee +1, Ranged +2, Grapple +1

*Fortitude:* +1 (+0 Base, Mod +1)
*Reflex:* +2 (+0 Base, Mod +2)
*Will:* +2 (+2 Base)

*SKILLS* (2 (Class) + 0 (Int Mod) + 2 (Bonus Skills) + 1 (Human Bonus))*4 = 20
Concentration +5 (4 Ranks, +1 CON)
-        Concentration (Cast defensively) +9 (4 Ranks, +1 CON, +4 Misc.)
Intimidate +8 (4 Ranks, +4 CHA)
Spellcraft +4 (4 Ranks)
Hide +4 (4/2 Ranks, +2 DEX)
Move Silently +4 (4/2 Ranks, +2 DEX)

*FEATS* 
Armor Proficiency (Light)
Combat Casting
Combat Reflexes
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longsword)
Self-Sufficient
Simple Weapon Proficiency

*SPECIAL QUALITIES*
Summon Familiar

Unarmed Strike +1 Melee (1d3+1, 20/x2)
Crossbow, Light +2 ranged (1d8, 80 ft., 19-20/x2)
Longsword +1 Melee (1d8+1, 19-20/x2)

*KNOWN SPELLS*
Sorcerer Level 0 Spells
-	Daze
-	Flare
-	Mage Hand

Sorcerer Level 1 Spells
-	Magic Missle

[/sblock][sblock="Equipment"]
	
	




		Code:
	

[b]Equipment                               Qty Weight Cost[/b]
Longsword                                1   4      15
Explorer's Outfit                         1   8      0
Studded Leather                         1   20     25
Light Metal Shield                        1   6     9

 
*Money:* 26gp
*Load:* 38 lbs. (Light)

*Light Load:* upto 43Ilbs
*Medium Load:* 44-86Ilbs
*Heavy Load:* 87-130Ilbs
*Maximum Load:* 130Ilbs
[/sblock][sblock=BACKGROUND]Trinham was the only son of Aliphons Wood, carpenter for the village of  Hazley Bottom. Although his father wanted him to follow in his footstep, Trinham had no particular aptitude for working wood and unlike his father, no particular love of working wood.

Trinham developed his stealth skills, to try to avoid his obnoxious chore.  However while he became reasonably successful at hiding, he always re-appeared come mealtimes and it did not take his father long to come up with a no-work, no meals rule. Therefore, as soon as the local lord started recruiting for the war, Trinham said good bye to his parent and went off to enrol in the army.

Shortly after Trinham had completed basic training, his barracks was subjected to strange poltergeist and ghostly apparitions. A short and speedy investigation concluded that Trinham was starting to manifest sorcerous powers. Trinham was placed under the tutelage of Archimedes, the lord's advisor.  Archimedes managed to teach Trinham how to control his powers. However, when he was returned to his unit, no one had any idea what to do with him or how to use him. [/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

*Hello to all*

Just got in and have read all the posts (but not the education system will read now so if I take awhile to respond I'm on just reading, and waiting for Merlin to start on t.v.)


----------



## HolyMan

have quoted then edited your character to help out

[sblock=Jorin Renald]Jorin Renald, Faithful of Draminos the One True God

Male Human Paladin 1
Lawful Good
Representing Rathan

XP: 0
Next Level: 1000

Str 14 +2 (6 Points)
Dex 12 +1 (4 Points)
Con 14 +2 (6 Points)
Int 12 +1 (4 Points)
Wis 13 +1 (5 Points)
Cha 16 +3 (10 Points)

Size: Medium
Age 20
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 175
Skin: Tan
Eyes: Blue
Hair: shoulder Length Brown

Total HP: 12 / 12

Speed: 30 (20' carrying lance) Add: ACP -2 (-3 carrying lance med. load)

Armor Class: 17 (Base 10, +1 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Shield)
Touch AC: 11
Flat Footed AC: 16

Initiative Mod: +1 (+1 Dex)
Fortitude Save: +4 (+2 Class, +2 Con)
Reflex Save: +1 (0 Class, +1 Dex)
Will Save: +1 (0 Class, +1 Wis)
Base Attack Bonus: +1 
Melee Attack (Longsword): +4 to Hit for 1d8+2 Dmg
Ranged Attack (Light Crossbow): +2 to Hit for 1d8 Dmg --- take all this out as you have no crossbow yet put none after ranged attack for now
Grapple Check: +3 (+1 Base, +2 Str)

Carrying Compasity: ADD: total weight: 65 w/lance
Light: 58 or less 55 w/o lance
Medium: 59-116
Heavy: 117-175
Lift over Head: 175
Lift off Ground: 350
Push/Drag: 875

Languages: Common, Orc

Specials: Detect Evil at Will

Skills: (Total = Ranks + Ability Mod + Misc) 
Add total skill pts = 24 4base+INT mod x 4 +4 from human traits
Diplomacy (Cha) 8 = 3 +3 +2 [Feat]
Handle Animal (Cha) 4 = 1 +3
Heal (Wis) 3 = 2 +1
Knowledge [Nobility] (Int) 3 = 2 +1
Knowledge [Religion] (Int) 3 = 2 +1
Ride (Dex) 4 = 3 +1
Sense Motive (Wis) 6 = 3 +1 +2 [Feat]
Spot (Wis) 3 = 2 +1
Listen (Wis) 3 = 2 +1
I have it that you spent 20 skill points you still have 4 left.


Feats: 3+1
Negotiator: +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks and Sense Motive checks.
Weapon Focus: Longsword
Power Attack
Cleave

Human Racial Abilities:

-Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
-Human base land speed is 30 feet.
-1 extra feat at 1st level.
-4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
-Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.
-Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.

Class Features:

Paladin: 
-Aura of good, 
-detect evil at will
-smite evil 1/day
-given up Heavy Armor Prof. for an extra feat at 1st level
-given up all but Longsword and Lance martial Profs. for two extra class skills (Spot, and Listen)

Jorins Equipment:

Longsword 15 gp
Lance 10 gp
Heavy Wooden Shield 7 gp 
Chainshirt 25 gp Chainshirt cost 100gp
Backpack 2 gp
Bedroll 1 sp
Blanket, winter x1 5 sp
Flint and steel 1 gp
Pouch x4 4 gp
Torches x5 5 cp
Waterskins x1 1 gp
Whetstone 2 cp
list free clothing choice

Money I have your money as this
Platinum: 0 0
Gold: 8 9
Silver: 9 3
Copper: 10 8

Draminos is a Monotheistic God in his followers eyes. His followers do not recognize or acknowledge other Gods or Goddess' of any other Pantheon. His followers tend to be very fanatic for this reason and see service to him as a form of repent of past sins. His domains are Good, Law, Protection, and Strength.[/sblock]


Like the monotheistic hook will will run with it humans started out worshiping a god for just about everything but they have been starting slowly to come under one god we will play a little of this out


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> Since we're already creaating a homebrew setting, I'd like to add my 2c -
> 
> *SKILL POINTS*
> Giving an extra 2 skill points might be used in a way that you don't neccessarily want it to be used. From what I gather, you want the PC's to actually have a more broad/professional oriented background. Take a look at the article that I have attached( *Going Beyond Class Skills: Education Skill System - *Taken from Asgard, March 2002).
> 
> *DEFENSIVE BONUS*
> You might want to use the rules regarding defensive bonus from UA. This is quite a popular rule that has been adapted by many threads on Enworld (and rightfully so if I may say so myself). Here's the link: Defense Bonus :: d20srd.org
> 
> Let me know what you think...




actually I do like the education skill system just don't like the paperwork it will create it is trying to do the same thing I am just it is more advanced
I want the same classes to take different skills not every fighter have swim and climb only or evevry rogue to pick the same seven skills leaving only one or two different. and it's easy just add two to the class base so let's go with that for now everyone just add two to the base skill points of thier class

DB: I like how it talks about not running around in plate everywhere you go. I don't like it because it can give a 1st lvl fighter an AC better than over 1/2 of the armor he could buy. running around camp it's right to say that you should have a suit of light armor not right away but eventually


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> One more thing -
> Since this thread is picking up quite a few post in a relatively short period of time, it's becoming very hard to isolate the posts that relate to rules or campaign setting or characters. You might want to create a few more threads for each of the above (and later another thread for the game itself of course).
> 
> In the meantime, I'm going to be working on a rogue (plain vanilla). He'll be a bored son of a middle class merchant from that coastal kingdom (can't remember the name right now - need to look it up in the earlier post).




How many threads can you make for a game? And where I had to put the RG in plots and places This is the discussion thread so let me know what other threads we will need and where to put them

and thanks for the help


----------



## HolyMan

*Athos d'Mari*

*Appearance*
Athos is a tall, handsome, clean shaven male of about six foot in height and an athletic build. He has short cropped brown hair and steel grey eyes. He is dressed in plain traveller’s clothing and a dark blue cloak around his shoulders. He carries two short blades at his side and several throwing daggers looped between his shoulder and torso on a dagger belt.

*General*
*Race*: Human
*Gender*: Male
*Classes*: Rogue (1st)
*Alignement*: Chaotic Good

*Age*: 17
*Height*: 6”0
*Weight*: 160lb
*Hair*: Brown
*Eyes*: Grey

*STR*: 12
*DEX*: 16
*CON*: 14
*INT*: 13
*WIS*: 14
*CHA*: 12

*Defenses & Saves*
*HP*: 8

*AC*: 17
*Touch*: 13
*Flat Footed*: 14

*Fort*: +2
*Reflex*: +5
*Will*: +2 

*Combat*
*Initiative:* +3
Short sword standard attack  +3 (1d6+1,19-20x2)
*2x Short Swords: *+1 (1d6+1, 19-20/x2)*  should read +1/+1
*5x Throwing Daggers: *+3 (1d4+1, 19-20/x2, 10’)

* Flanking: +2 attack; +1d6 to damage.

*Feats*
Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting Style list stealthy

*Skills* 
(1) Move Silently +9, Hide +9 _(+2 each for Stealthy feat)_
(2) Balance +6, Climb +4, Disable Device +4, Gather Info. +4, Listen +5, Open Locks +6, Spot +5, Search +4
(3) Diplomacy +3, Jump +3, Sense Motive +4, Tumble +5, Swim +3, Use Magical Device +3

_*Notes: 44* points._ (_1) 4 ranks each; (2) 3 ranks each; (3) 2 ranks each_
I have you at 48 points 10 base + 1 INT mod x4 (+4 human bonus)
*Abilities:*
Sneak attack +1d6, Trapfinding

*Equipement*
*Here you spent a little to muchh your starting gold is 125gp enough only to get what is on your body*
*On Body: T*ravellers’ outfit, 2x short swords, 5x throwing Daggers, belt pouch, chain shirt

*In regular backpack: *bedroll, winter blanket, flint & steel, soap, torch, explorer’s outfit, 5x fishhooks , 2x waterskins, thieves tools, hemp rope, crowbar, iron pot, crowbar, soap, 


*Belt pouch:* 17gp, 9sp

*Mount:* Donkey

*Animals*
Donkey - carrying the backpack.

*Background*
_News of the coming war was my redemption. I had enough of sorting through accounting journals and trade agreements in order to appease my father, Orlando the renowned silk merchant of Grimstown. I am seventeen darn it! I need to see something of interest lest I die in this overcrowded town full of nothing but pure boredom. I told Silvia my twin sister of my intentions on the night that I slipped out of the family manor and joined the ranks of the enlisted. Even though the army has dragged the ruffians, thugs and scoundrels of society interested in nothing other than loot and pillage, there are still a few who like me, have joined for the thrill of adventure. It is their companionship that I seek. I feel as if every breath that I take has a taste of freedom that I have just recently discovered. It is sweet...oh is it sweet._

**Speaks in this color**

Great character concept i hope he relizes what he's getting himself into campaigning isn't the easy life i have noted some changes in red to help get him ready for the RG


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> I agree (to some extent). You have to remember that the number of skill points, just like the avancement of BAB, is a class feature. You cannot just give it out without compromising some game balance.
> 
> In any event, the attachment I have posted actually gives more skill points, but restricts them to those that would influence game balance the least and makes player characters more well rounded. Read the article first - I'm sure you'll enjoy it.




I did read and enjoyed it thanks wysiwyg, any other articles on rules you believe need a going over as they arise please feel free right now I just don't want the extra work could be added if we feel that skills are a big part of the campagin you know we change over at lvl 10 or something after characters are really educated. And I want the balance off a little the PC's gain the +2 to base skill points not npcs the Pc's need to stand out in a big crowd.


----------



## HolyMan

I am going to allow this variant mainly do to your great background work i see nothing wrong with a magic missile throwning average swordsmen 

*BUT*, you will have to do all this math for me please... Just take and make a new game rule information sheet for me. And not a loses this gains that, in note pad list everything like in the PHB; HD, class skills, weapon and armor prof. and two new with the modified numbers a Spells Known and table 3-16 (phb pg 52) with the new BAB/spells per day/ and saves listed to lvl 20 sorry for the work but it will make easier reference for me as Iplot ahead

HM. I have decided to go with the Battle Sorcerer variant. Although I may decide to change to the Hunter / Druid later.

Here is the first draft of my character. Still need to flesh out his feline familiar. OK its a white and ginger cat called Mogins.

As far as equipment is concerned, I just have armor and weapons. I am assuming that everything else (camping equipment, supplies,etc.) will be supplied by the army.

[sblock="Trinham"]
Male, Human , Battle Sorcerer(1)
Chaotic Good

*Height:* 5' 10", *Weight:* 168 lbs., *Age:* 18
*Hair:* Blond, *Eyes:* Brown, *Skin:* Fair

*Languages:* Common

STR 12 (+1) [base 12] {4 pts}
DEX 14 (+2) [base 14] {6 pts}
CON 13 (+1) [base 13] {5 pts}
INT 10 (+0) [base 10] {2 pts}
WIS 10 (+0) [base 10] {2 pts}
CHA 18 (+4) [base 18] {16 pts}

*Move:* 6 Squares,30 ft.   ACP: 0
*Initiative:* +2

*Armor Class:* 15 (10 Base, +2 Ability, +3 Armor)

*Hit Points:* 9 (1st Level: [8 +1(con mod)])
*BAB:* +0, Melee +1, Ranged +2, Grapple +1

*Fortitude:* +1 (+0 Base, Mod +1)
*Reflex:* +2 (+0 Base, Mod +2)
*Will:* +2 (+2 Base)

*SKILLS*
Concentration +5 (4 Ranks, +1 CON)
Concentration (Cast defensively) +9 (4 Ranks, +1 CON, +4 Misc.)
Intimidate +6 (2 Ranks, +4 CHA)
Spellcraft +4 (4 Ranks)
List the number of skill points I have you at 20 points but you only spent 14 i may be wrong
*FEATS* 
Armor Proficiency (Light)
Combat Casting
Combat Reflexes
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longsword)
Self-Sufficient
Simple Weapon Proficiency

*SPECIAL QUALITIES*
Summon Familiar

Unarmed Strike +1 Melee (1d3+1, 20/x2)
Crossbow, Light +2 ranged (1d8, 80 ft., 19-20/x2)
Longsword +1 Melee (1d8+1, 19-20/x2)

*KNOWN SPELLS*
Sorcerer Level 0 Spells
-    Daze
-    Flare
-    Mage Hand

Sorcerer Level 1 Spells
-    Magic Missle

[/sblock][sblock="Equipment"]
	
	




		Code:
	

[B]Equipment                               Qty Weight Cost[/B]
Longsword                                1   4      15
Explorer's Outfit                        1   8      0
Studded Leather                          1   20     25
[COLOR=red]Your starting gold is 75gp use it however you want you may want to by a shield not that you'll use it but it is part of your starting equipment from your old barracks just for flavor[/COLOR]

 
*Money:* 0
*Load:* 41 lbs. (Light)

*Light Load:* upto 43Ilbs
*Medium Load:* 44-86Ilbs
*Heavy Load:* 87-130Ilbs
*Maximum Load:* 130Ilbs
[/sblock][sblock=BACKGROUND]Trinham was the only son of Aliphons Wood, carpenter for the village of ?(village of ? insert any name you want this is our game) Although his father wanted him to follow in his footstep, Trinham had no particular aptitude for working wood and unlike his father, no particular love of working wood.

Therefore, as soon as the local lord started recruiting for the war, Trinham said good bye to his parent and went off to enroll in the army.

Shortly after Trinham had completed basic training, his barracks was subjected to strange poltergeist and ghostly apparitions. A short and speedy investigation concluded that Trinham was starting to manifest sorcerous powers. Trinham was placed under the tutelage of Archimedes, the lord's advisor. Archimedes managed to teach Trinham how to control his powers. However, when he was returned to his unit, no one had any idea what to do with him or how to use him. [/sblock]

Love the background I can't wait to make Archimedes Stat block lol


----------



## Deskjob

*New Guy*

This sounds like fun.  I'm definitely interested in joining.

I'd like to go with Fighter class PC, as I generally enjoy a good sword fight.  Hmm, background...  Okay.  His occupation before the war was as a basket weaver.  Commonly making fishing baskets and sandals for farmers.  He has received schooling because his father held a minor office in local politics and his twin uncles where teachers.  He has receiving education in reading, writing, mathematics, horsemanship, fencing, and shoemaking.  Due to the early death of his father his family invites him to enlist and gain political office through military service.  He would be in his early 20's.

Tell me what ya think HolyMan.  I love the characters presented by everyone else too!


----------



## HolyMan

*Welcome aboard Deskjob*

So your family has a military history you could take knowledge(history) a rank or two learned from stories told by your uncles. So go for it will try to help you along but Merlin is on so I may be slow. in replying for a little bit

Edit:  Heading out want to let those who have posted characters too make their changes and then post them in the RG


----------



## wysiwyg

Wow holyman, I see you've been busy. 

OK:
1. I've updated my pc sheet with the changes (only slightly changed the skill point allocations & changed my armor to leather for the extra cash). I'm perfectly ok with a +2 to skills points to simplify the game mechanics.

2. As far as I know, you can have as many threads as you want. It's nice to have a "main menu" thread with links to the following sub-threads:

World At War
Campaign Setting (DM only)
Game Rules (DM only including all variant classes allowed + new rules)
The Players (Each player gets one post for his PC)
The Game (where the game actually takes place)
Discussions (out of game forum)

3. If you're interested, take a look at the following article (also by Asgard) regarding professions. Just to give players a bit more background if they want it. BTW, the other article regarding educational skills could be simplified as follows:
Each PC has a number of skill points as usual PLUS 2+int bonus for craft, perform, profession, knowledge & languages skills (only). 
_(At this point, my PC sheet has the +2 skill points added to the normal)_

4. Regarding Defensive Bonus. It's true that the average fighter might get a free AC bonus without paying for it. However, if he wants a higher AC bonus he will need to buy armor. Also, don't forget about magical armor and shields as well as those that give some ability or resistance. You could also make a new rule that each armor grants the wearer damage reduction of say half the armor bonus to make it more attractive for fighters to wear even if they could get the same DB without it (and the normal ac bonus of course). BTW, the purpose of armor in the first place is not to avoid being hit, but rather to absorb and lessen the damage. Your call of course. I just thought of something else...Flat footed AC would always be 10 for everyone without armor...am I right?


----------



## Deskjob

*enter Shinn*

Sweet, ok so here's what I've got for Shinn.  I'll be waiting on the thumbs up.

[sblock=Shinn]     [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Shinn[/FONT] 

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]General[/FONT]*
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Human,Male,Fighter,Good[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]20's, 5'10', 152', black hair[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif](16,14,14,  12,14,10)[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Combat[/FONT]*
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]HP: 12[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]AC:  18  (10,4,2,2)[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Touch:  12[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Flat:  16[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Fort: 4[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Reflex: 2[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Will: 2[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Intv:  6[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Spd:  20[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Shortspear +1 (1d6+3, 20/x2)[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Feats[/FONT]*
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Dodge,Mobility,Improved Intv,Animal Affinity.[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Skills[/FONT]*
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ride +8  (4ranks,feat)[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Handle +6  (4ranks,feat)[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Craft +5  (4ranks)[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Appraise, History +2  (2ranks)[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Swim +1  (4ranks,-6check)[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Climb, Jump -1  (2ranks,-6check)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]24points.[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Equipment[/FONT]*
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Scalemail, heavy shield, shortspear, travlers outfit.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Backpack, bedroll, waterskin, x2 beltpouch, artisans tools.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Donkey.  58g.  65'.[/FONT]
[/sblock][sblock=Background]Hmm, background... Okay. His occupation before the war was as a basket weaver. Commonly making fishing baskets and sandals for farmers. He has received schooling because his father held a minor office in local politics and his twin uncles where teachers. He has receiving education in reading, writing, mathematics, horsemanship, fencing, and shoemaking. Due to the early death of his father his family invites him to enlist and gain political office through military service. He would be in his early 20's.
[/sblock]


----------



## Rhun

Hey Holyman, I think I'm going to bow out of this game. I've got way too many other games going on here right now, and if I want to add another to my DM repetoire, I need to think about limiting what I'm doing.

It sounds like a blast, though. I hope you guys have a great time!


----------



## Rathan

Yea I'm going to have to agree with Rhun on this one and follow suit.. I literally got soo frustrated before work today just trying to post and keep up with the games I'm already in.... I REALLY want to play this character concept.. but I just don't have enough time to spare as I go into my busy LARP schedule as well for the summer... maybe if this was mid winter I'd consider staying.. but I just can't risk shaving off valuable time I owe to my current games to work this one into my busy schedule... again.. sorry I wasted your time :/


----------



## Walking Dad

I have some ideas for a character. Saw '300' again 

Perhaps Fighter, giving up all armor prof. The ability to use a longspear one handed (and throw it). Gain Cha to AC if using no armor but shields. Thoughts?


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> *BUT*, you will have to do all this math for me please... Just take and make a new game rule information sheet for me. And not a loses this gains that, in note pad list everything like in the PHB; HD, class skills, weapon and armor prof. and two new with the modified numbers a Spells Known and table 3-16 (phb pg 52) with the new BAB/spells per day/ and saves listed to lvl 20 sorry for the work but it will make easier reference for me as Iplot ahead




OK. Probably have something sometime tomorrow. Any suggestions how to get it to you?


----------



## wysiwyg

ghostcat said:


> OK. Probably have something sometime tomorrow. Any suggestions how to get it to you?




Why don't you attach it (see my posts).


----------



## HolyMan

Hey guys I'm online and about to answer all the new postings but real quick I can tell ghostcat that wysiwyg is right just do the charts on notepad or something and attach the file to a post please. And when you've updated your character post him here http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/257898-rg-off-war.html
 You to wysiwyg go ahead and put Athos in the RG and let me know here.


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> Wow holyman, I see you've been busy.
> 
> OK:
> 1. I've updated my pc sheet with the changes (only slightly changed the skill point allocations & changed my armor to leather for the extra cash). I'm perfectly ok with a +2 to skills points to simplify the game mechanics.
> 
> 2. As far as I know, you can have as many threads as you want. It's nice to have a "main menu" thread with links to the following sub-threads:
> 
> World At War
> Campaign Setting (DM only)
> Game Rules (DM only including all variant classes allowed + new rules)
> The Players (Each player gets one post for his PC)
> The Game (where the game actually takes place)
> Discussions (out of game forum)
> 
> 3. If you're interested, take a look at the following article (also by Asgard) regarding professions. Just to give players a bit more background if they want it. BTW, the other article regarding educational skills could be simplified as follows:
> Each PC has a number of skill points as usual PLUS 2+int bonus for craft, perform, profession, knowledge & languages skills (only).
> _(At this point, my PC sheet has the +2 skill points added to the normal)_
> 
> 4. Regarding Defensive Bonus. It's true that the average fighter might get a free AC bonus without paying for it. However, if he wants a higher AC bonus he will need to buy armor. Also, don't forget about magical armor and shields as well as those that give some ability or resistance. You could also make a new rule that each armor grants the wearer damage reduction of say half the armor bonus to make it more attractive for fighters to wear even if they could get the same DB without it (and the normal ac bonus of course). BTW, the purpose of armor in the first place is not to avoid being hit, but rather to absorb and lessen the damage. Your call of course. I just thought of something else...Flat footed AC would always be 10 for everyone without armor...am I right?




1.See above post.
2.That is alot but think I'll start a houserules thread for my character generation style tomorrow, along with a campagin setting.
3.Another cool article, but for this game you didn't need a profession I just wanted to know for flavor( what the PC's life were like before the war started). I may use this for an urban campaign I'm thinking about, thanks.
4.Free AC bonus?!! they get a +6 at lvl1 plate armor is +8 I like the rule because I believe PC's would have a certain combat knowledge from all the combat they get involved in. Yes, I think I'll look into a DB for higher lvls that could also lower the amount of magic armor I have to give out LOL. Going to put this one on hold and bring it up again after we see a few more characters.


----------



## HolyMan

[sblock=Shinn] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Shinn[/FONT] 

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]General[/FONT]*
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Human,Male,Fighter,Good[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]20's, 5'10', 152', black hair[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](16,14,14, 12,14,10)[/FONT]
You only spent 34 pts you have 1 pt either 12-13 or the 10-11
*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Combat[/FONT]*
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]HP: 12[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]AC: 18 (10,4,2,2)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Touch: 12[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Flat: 16[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Fort: 4[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Reflex: 2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Will: 2[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Intv: 6[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Spd: 20[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Shortspear +1 (1d6+3, 20/x2)[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Feats[/FONT]*
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Dodge,Mobility,Improved Intv,Animal Affinity.[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Skills[/FONT]*
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ride +8 (4ranks,feat)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Handle +6 (4ranks,feat)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Craft +5 (4ranks) Should read Craft(basketweaver)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Appraise, History +2 (2ranks) Did you spend 2pts in appraise? if so your 4pts over[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Swim +1 (4ranks,-6check)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Climb, Jump -1 (2ranks,-6check)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]24points.[/FONT]

*[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Equipment[/FONT]*
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Scalemail, heavy shield,(wooden or steel) shortspear, travlers outfit.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Backpack, bedroll, waterskin, x2 beltpouch, artisans tools.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Donkey. 58g. 65'. I have you at 60gp 9sp left and what does 65' mean?[/FONT]
[/sblock][sblock=Background]Hmm, background... Okay. His occupation before the war was as a basket weaver. Commonly making fishing baskets and sandals for farmers. He has received schooling because his father held a minor office in local politics and his twin uncles where teachers. He has receiving education in reading, writing, mathematics, horsemanship, fencing, and shoemaking. Due to the early death of his father his family invites him to enlist and gain political office through military service. He would be in his early 20's.
[/sblock]

Not a bad start looks like your gearing toward spring attack I like that not many people use because of all the feats needed but this will be a long campagin so go for it. I have attach a character sheet used in LEW save it and use it to make your character just backspace the XXXX's and then fill the info back in. And note with 60gp left you could trade in scalemail for a chain shirt and have less of a ACP


----------



## HolyMan

*To Rhun and Rathan*

*And anyone else who thinks they do not have enough time to join another thread.*

I appreciate you guys posting into me to tell me that was way better than if you just stopped posting so thanks guys

Now if you have time I want to let you know my vision for this thread. I imagine a main IC thread were the characters are part of a large encampment say 250-500 men. Now I'd like 15-20 of them to be PC's (leaving alot of cannon fodder and packmules lol). But not all of these PC's will be playing at
the same time or their characters may not know half the others,though they could hear tales and rumors and the like. The only time all the Pc's in this thread will be playing the same game is at the end battle vs. the Treylor the two armies meet and your PC's are right there in the thick of it. Now as the main thread moves along I'd like to run mini games that will bring to life not only the characters(although the characters first) but the world around them the poltics, the people, the history. So all the players have to do is make a character they wish to play, post him in the RG, and whenever they have time come to the main thread to "talk around the campfire" when enough players are ready to start a new game (sub-mission that will relate to the main game) then we will play with those PC's only in that thread. Don't worry about xp it won't be based only on orc bashing and treasure finding but on post (nobody ask yet still working on it) but i know I want to reward xp every two weeks and if you only post once a month you won't fall to terrible far behind I hope. So think on it the campfire will be around whenn you have the time.


----------



## HolyMan

Walking Dad said:


> I have some ideas for a character. Saw '300' again
> 
> Perhaps Fighter, giving up all armor prof. The ability to use a longspear one handed (and throw it). Gain Cha to AC if using no armor but shields. Thoughts?




*Hey WD   Welcome to the War*

I have been working on the fighter subclass/Spartan but I want to know is do you want to play a spear weilding madman in a red cape and leather speedo(just kidding lol) or the combat style?? longspear/shield

because if it's the combat style I thought up this morning a spear weilding madman in soft leather (apache style) who hunts direboars in the mountains with his huge boar spear  just let me know what it was you were looking for character/combat style either works on my end


----------



## Deskjob

*Posted*

Thanks HolyMan.  Got the PC posted in the RG using your formatting.  Oh, and I love the leather bikini Spartan idea.  The rest of could just be; as Leonidas says "spirited amateurs."

(Used suggestions via post #86.  Peace!)


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks Deskjob I will check out Shinn and hit you back with what to do next.


----------



## HolyMan

*Update for deskjob*

ok lets see...

alignment change from good not using 4e alignments(yet) if you want good should be LG,NG, or CG

Spell Res:0
Spell save: n/a
Spell fail: n/a
not applicable to your character class

Combat area:             Attack
Shortspear (melee)        +4
Shortspear(thrown)        +3        and add range

abilities area could look like this:
Fighter :: d20srd.org


Races :: d20srd.org

sorry hard for me to get those links up storm here


----------



## wysiwyg

Posted Athos in the other thread.
Just reving to go...


----------



## Walking Dad

HolyMan said:


> *Hey WD   Welcome to the War*
> 
> I have been working on the fighter subclass/Spartan but I want to know is do you want to play a spear weilding madman in a red cape and leather speedo(just kidding lol) or the combat style?? longspear/shield
> 
> because if it's the combat style I thought up this morning a spear weilding madman in soft leather (apache style) who hunts direboars in the mountains with his huge boar spear  just let me know what it was you were looking for character/combat style either works on my end



It is more the combat style (but I also like the image of the red caped madman ) Would the 'apache' use a shield 

I will post also an alternative character (modifying classes is fun):
Some kind of a 'special ops' core class using the ranger with the assassin spell list and some monk instead of ranger abilities.


----------



## ghostcat

wysiwyg said:


> Why don't you attach it (see my posts).




I didn't realise you could do that. I thought you could only have a link to an external web-site.


----------



## HolyMan

Heading to work will be on tonight to check characters and post my South Mountain Man (barbarian/long spear&shield concept) WD is right modification is fun

and ghostcat just look at the manage attachments feature below the posting area

be back tonight around 6pmEST later


----------



## ghostcat

I have update my character to address your comments. Is this OK.

Still to do:

- Complete Equipment.
- Familiar Stats.

Finally, is the format OK or would you like me to use the LEW form?


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> Posted Athos in the other thread.
> Just reving to go...




Which brings up th equestion Starting Date?? 

I'm thinking July first (week from tomorrow) we have two-three characters ready and that is enough to start the around the fire concept. And I could throw in an NPC or two I'm aching for some roleplaying myself.

Everyone o.k. with this let me know.


----------



## Deskjob

*July 1st*

Sounds like a plan HolyMan.  I be bringin' the marshmallows for the campfire.


----------



## HolyMan

*For WalkingDad*

*Tamor Hunter:*

Men living in the south mountain region of Pesh learn from an early age how to fight the dangerous Tamor(direboars) that inhabit the area. These skills are not only used to provide food and hides for their families, but also to protect them from all the other monsters living in the area.

Sub class of Ranger with the following changes:

At lvl 1 a T-hunters 1st favored enemy must be animals, they lose the wild empahty ability and gain the Toughness Feat

BAB and saves are unchanged

Weapon prof. change to the following list: Prof. with dagger, club, shortspear, longspear, quarterstaff, spear, sling, throwing axe, hand axe, shortbow(and composite) Gain: Skill Focus (Intimidate) Feat and Weapon Focus (players choice) Feat

Combat Stlyes (add to archery/two weapon combat) Spear & Shield:
At 2nd lvl gain the ability to use a longspear or spear one handed as long as the other hand has heavy shield in it. Training in throwing regular spears helps with throwing a longspear, lets him throw a longspear with a -2 penalty unstead of -4.
At 6th lvl further spear throwing training brings the penalty down to zero. Gain the Improved Shield Bash feat.
At 11th lvl gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate Checks to _Demoralize Opponent _checks, when wielding a spear & shield. When setting a spear or longspear against a charge you deal triple damage on a successful hit.

Lose Animal Companion ability and gain Uncanny Dodge ability, because you don't want to be flat-footed when a dire boar breaks from the woods.

Loses spell casting ability and gain a bonus feat at lvls 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th. Feat to be approved by DM.

There you go. Let's twink this class and get it ready to go. and what i was saying about the apache was that the clothing are apache style soft leather, fringes, and bead work. But it could be anything that was more a peoples concept not a class concept.


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> I have update my character to address your comments. Is this OK.
> 
> Still to do:
> 
> - Complete Equipment.
> - Familiar Stats.
> 
> Finally, is the format OK or would you like me to use the LEW form?




Updated where ghostcat. Go ahead and post him in the RG and finish his edits you need a cat here you go.

Cat :: d20srd.org

just make sure to not changes for being a familiar


----------



## HolyMan

Deskjob said:


> Sounds like a plan HolyMan. I be bringin' the marshmallows for the campfire.




Smores mmmm... smores
Great Shinn is ready to go, I hate that you will have to sit on your hands for a week but you get the first roll of the campaign so get your Invisible Castle account warmed up


----------



## Theroc

Question: How do we determine HP values?


----------



## HolyMan

HP are like in the PHB max at 1st lvl + con modifier, feats 

You will be rolling your HP every character lvl starting at 2nd


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> HP are like in the PHB max at 1st lvl + con modifier, feats
> 
> You will be rolling your HP every character lvl starting at 2nd




Okay, I had been wondering if we'd be rolling or not.


----------



## HolyMan

Why rolling not popular?? I have been looking into the pros and cons of the LEW way I just thought rolling would keep the D&D feel most NPC's will have hp & stats out of the DmG which gives them half their max every lvl

Just keeping things simple but rather make them fun.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Why rolling not popular?? I have been looking into the pros and cons of the LEW way I just thought rolling would keep the D&D feel most NPC's will have hp & stats out of the DmG which gives them half their max every lvl
> 
> Just keeping things simple but rather make them fun.




Never said I have a problem with rolling, Holy... I just didn't know which way it would be handled, and just wanted to know.  Here's hoping my horrible luck doesn't manifest in my hit dice rolls.    If they do, I'll have to hide behind the group's fighters.  lol


----------



## HolyMan

LMAO:  Isn't it fun how sucky rolls seem to add to better role-playing?


----------



## Walking Dad

HolyMan said:


> *Tamor Hunter:*
> 
> Men living in the south mountain region of Pesh learn from an early age how to fight the dangerous Tamor(direboars) that inhabit the area. These skills are not only used to provide food and hides for their families, but also to protect them from all the other monsters living in the area.
> 
> Sub class of Ranger with the following changes:
> 
> At lvl 1 a T-hunters 1st favored enemy must be animals, they lose the wild empahty ability and gain the Toughness Feat
> 
> BAB and saves are unchanged
> 
> Weapon prof. change to the following list: Prof. with dagger, club, shortspear, longspear, quarterstaff, spear, sling, throwing axe, hand axe, shortbow(and composite) Gain: Skill Focus (Intimidate) Feat and Weapon Focus (players choice) Feat
> 
> Combat Stlyes (add to archery/two weapon combat) Spear & Shield:
> At 2nd lvl gain the ability to use a longspear or spear one handed as long as the other hand has heavy shield in it. Training in throwing regular spears helps with throwing a longspear, lets him throw a longspear with a -2 penalty unstead of -4.
> At 6th lvl further spear throwing training brings the penalty down to zero. Gain the Improved Shield Bash feat.
> At 11th lvl gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate Checks to _Demoralize Opponent _checks, when wielding a spear & shield. When setting a spear or longspear against a charge you deal triple damage on a successful hit.
> 
> Lose Animal Companion ability and gain Uncanny Dodge ability, because you don't want to be flat-footed when a dire boar breaks from the woods.
> 
> Loses spell casting ability and gain a bonus feat at lvls 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th. Feat to be approved by DM.
> 
> There you go. Let's twink this class and get it ready to go. and what i was saying about the apache was that the clothing are apache style soft leather, fringes, and bead work. But it could be anything that was more a peoples concept not a class concept.




Looks good. Only problem: I really hate the favorite enemy concept  Too strong vs. one enemy type, useless against the others.
Could I trade this for monk AC (but still usable with a shield)?


----------



## HolyMan

You may swap out anything you like how would you change the monk AC bonus ability to fit in with the character?


----------



## Walking Dad

Base


> When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
> These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.




to:


> When unarmored, the *Tamor Hunter* adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC.
> 
> These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the *Tamor Hunter* is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor or when she carries a heavy load.




Just deleting the passages about the bonus beside wisdom and loosing the bonus for using a shield. Also allowing for medium load (shield and spears weight something. Also looses light armor proficiency.

Would you also be ok to use this toughness feat (from Pathfinder):


> *Toughness* You have enhanced physical stamina.
> *Benefit*
> You gain +3 hit points plus 1 hit point per Hit Die. Every time you gain a level or gain Hit Dice, you gain +1 hit point.


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> *Tamor Hunter:*
> 
> Men living in the south mountain region of Pesh learn from an early age how to fight the dangerous Tamor(direboars) that inhabit the area. These skills are not only used to provide food and hides for their families, but also to protect them from all the other monsters living in the area.
> 
> Sub class of Ranger with the following changes:
> 
> At lvl 1 a T-hunters 1st favored enemy must be animals, they lose the wild empahty ability and gain the Toughness Feat
> 
> BAB and saves are unchanged
> 
> Weapon prof. change to the following list: Prof. with dagger, club, shortspear, longspear, quarterstaff, spear, sling, throwing axe, hand axe, shortbow(and composite) Gain: Skill Focus (Intimidate) Feat and Weapon Focus (players choice) Feat
> 
> Combat Stlyes (add to archery/two weapon combat) Spear & Shield:
> At 2nd lvl gain the ability to use a longspear or spear one handed as long as the other hand has heavy shield in it. Training in throwing regular spears helps with throwing a longspear, lets him throw a longspear with a -2 penalty unstead of -4.
> At 6th lvl further spear throwing training brings the penalty down to zero. Gain the Improved Shield Bash feat.
> At 11th lvl gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate Checks to _Demoralize Opponent _checks, when wielding a spear & shield. When setting a spear or longspear against a charge you deal triple damage on a successful hit.
> 
> Lose Animal Companion ability and gain Uncanny Dodge ability, because you don't want to be flat-footed when a dire boar breaks from the woods.
> 
> Loses spell casting ability and gain a bonus feat at lvls 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th. Feat to be approved by DM.
> 
> There you go. Let's twink this class and get it ready to go. and what i was saying about the apache was that the clothing are apache style soft leather, fringes, and bead work. But it could be anything that was more a peoples concept not a class concept.




Whoopy! I didn't know we had such a huge variety of modification choices. If that's the case I'd like to do change to a different class. Something similar to this but a different ranger sub class - The Soldier of the Kindgom.

Basically, there must be some type of professional soldier, i.e. someone who was raised and trained to be a soldier of the kingdom. He is trained in some basic survival skills that a soldier would need (tracking, survival skill, etc) - for this reason he is more associated withthe ranger than the fighter (just like the spartan above). I am taking almost everything that you gave WD with some exceptions, if you will allow them of course. Let's start: (my comments in red)

Sub class of Ranger with the following changes:

At lvl 1 a T-hunters 1st favored enemy must be an enemy of the kingdom, they lose the wild empathy ability and gain the Toughness Feat

BAB and saves are unchanged

Weapon prof. change to the following list: Prof. with whatever weapons are employed by the kingdom's army. Gain: Skill Focus (Intimidate) Feat and Weapon Focus (players choice) Feat

Skills: remove concentration, handle animal, know(dungeoneering/nature), use rope. Add balance, intimidate, know(architechture/local)

Combat Stlyes (add to archery/two weapon combat) sword & Shield:
At 2nd lvl gain a +1 to attack and damage rolls. This bonus increases by a further +1 every 5 levels (takes care of 6th, 11th, 16th level enhancements).
At 7th level: Lose woodland stride, and gain the ledership feat.

Lose Animal Companion ability and gain Uncanny Dodge ability, because you are trained to react swiftly to hostile situations.

Loses spell casting ability and gain a bonus feat at lvls 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th. Feat to be approved by DM.


----------



## HolyMan

going otu to run chores will be back on 5-6ish going to go over your class

I like the ideal of each of the five kingdoms having a different style of fighter to represent there homeland so will be taking this concept even further

be back tonight


----------



## wysiwyg

OK, I'll admit it, I have this fetish with DB! But I thought of another way to introduce it in a more moderate fashion. 

AC = 10 + AC bonuses due from dodge, dex, shield plus the BAB.
Armor will provide a DR equal to the AC bonus.

So a 3rd level fighter with a DEX of 14 (+2) and a large shield wearing chain mail will have - 
AC = 10 +2 (dex) +2 (shield) +3 (BAB) = 17
DR = 5 (chain mail)

What do you think?


Other rules that I found used quite often are:

1. Combining several skills into one skill - 
    a) Open lock = open lock + disable device
    b) Stealth = hide + move silently
    c) Perception = listen + spot
    d) Presence = intimidate + diplomacy
    maybe there are more examples?

2. Knowledge (local/geography) should be a skill that should not have the PC's expand their skill points on as it is gained through travel & exposure to new lands & cultures - something that they do automatically via their adventuring careers. Maybe they should have a score of 2 + level + int bonus w/o having to spend further skill points. You could say the same is true for spoken languages, but you need 3 points in order to learn a new language (spoken only).

Feedback please...and be gentle...


----------



## Theroc

wysiwyg said:


> OK, I'll admit it, I have this fetish with DB! But I thought of another way to introduce it in a more moderate fashion.
> 
> AC = 10 + AC bonuses due from dodge, dex, shield plus the BAB.
> Armor will provide a DR equal to the AC bonus.
> 
> So a 3rd level fighter with a DEX of 14 (+2) and a large shield wearing chain mail will have -
> AC = 10 +2 (dex) +2 (shield) +3 (BAB) = 17
> DR = 5 (chain mail)
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> 
> Other rules that I found used quite often are:
> 
> 1. Combining several skills into one skill -
> a) Open lock = open lock + disable device
> b) Stealth = hide + move silently
> c) Perception = listen + spot
> d) Presence = intimidate + diplomacy
> maybe there are more examples?
> 
> 2. Knowledge (local/geography) should be a skill that should not have the PC's expand their skill points on as it is gained through travel & exposure to new lands & cultures - something that they do automatically via their adventuring careers. Maybe they should have a score of 2 + level + int bonus w/o having to spend further skill points. You could say the same is true for spoken languages, but you need 3 points in order to learn a new language (spoken only).
> 
> Feedback please...and be gentle...




Anything that makes my Monk more agile/hard to hit, is something I support... seeing as not wearing armor kinda scares me as a melee combatant.


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Updated where ghostcat. Go ahead and post him in the RG and finish his edits you need a cat here you go.
> 
> Cat :: d20srd.org
> 
> just make sure to not changes for being a familiar




I am having second thoughts on having a familiar. I still like the idea of a familiar but don't feel its a good idea to take a cat to war.  Anyone any ideas how this might work?


----------



## HolyMan

*I'm back and reading post*

Walking Dad: The monk AC bonus ability I believe is a fair "swap" for favored enemy, but my question was a little vage. For cocept of the character why would they gain this bonus the favored enemy was because of the hunting (remember you get bonuses on skill checks as well as combat bonuses) and as they become better hunters they gain more benefit against the Tamor and then use these same skills on opponents they are just learning about i.e. a lower bonus vs. new favorites. So my qustion is why the AC bonus and why do they not wear armor -- i'd wear armor if i had to fight a direboar trust me lots of it.

And that feat I would change to this before I would allow it:sorry
Improved Toughness- prerequisite: Con 13 Toughness Feat
Gain +2hp and +1hp/Hit Die or character lvl. Whenever you gain a HD or character lvl gain 1 additional hp.


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## HolyMan

*O.k. whoses next...*

ghostcat: That's easy just trade in summon familiar ability for a feat. Why carry a toad around for +3 hit points just take toughness. and yes there could be a cat running around camp what better spy could you ask for??


----------



## HolyMan

*To Theroc*

Your puligest (how is that spelled?) could be a ranged combatant or wrestler or anyother style warrior. Heck you could balance all the above really. Just remember concept not stats are the important thing to start.

That goes for everyone


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## HolyMan

*And last but not least...*

wysiwyg,

where to start- I have played with skill links before : Notice instead of Listen and Spot, Persuasion instead of Diplomacy and Bluff but I believe the way a character notices something or persauades a gaint not to eat him defines him that is just about the time I was deciding on adding two skill points to the base of each class because I believed by doing so it would help not only stop each player from putting there points in the same skills but help build synergy bonus for PCs

Making skills linked make each character the same a ranger with a high notice or are you a sharped earred ranger or do your friends call you eagle eyes because you miss nothing

So if I could I d break the skills down even further to make characters more unique


----------



## HolyMan

*Db*

Lets see that same fighter at say lvl 15

AC= 10 + 3(dex) + 4 (shield) + 15 (BAB) = 32(34 ring +2)
DR= 8 (full plate)

hmmm... not bad we are on to something here it just looks alittle over balanced I like using your combat ability(BAB) to defened yourself ...parry, parry, strike 

Any other pros/cons people see??


----------



## HolyMan

*Soilder of the Kingdom*

I like it (all credit to wysiwyg) each sub class will be based on which kingdom a character is from as everyone is from:

Pesh- focus on skirmish/scouts/guerilla tactics
Norden- focus on infantry (heavy and heavier)
Fanshaw- focus artillery/crossbowmen/school of magic
Reygur- focus light infantry/pikemen/sabotage/assassins
Kurkland- focus on calvary both light and heavy

So as I've only been at this about 2 hours I don't have all these classes ready (don't have one done). Will do as someone wants to play a _concept _of a different type of fighter. So concepts/backgrounds if your interested.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Your puligest (how is that spelled?) could be a ranged combatant or wrestler or anyother style warrior. Heck you could balance all the above really. Just remember concept not stats are the important thing to start.
> 
> That goes for everyone




Well, pugilist implies hand to hand combat, which... generally, needs to be done in melee range.  I had been considering getting his hands on a polearm and later a spiked chain (to emphasize his flexibility in combat), to whirl around in semi-acrobatic manuevers.  Seeing as he's a 'fighter' whose main goal was to show off to earn money.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Well, pugilist implies hand to hand combat, which... generally, needs to be done in melee range. I had been considering getting his hands on a polearm and later a spiked chain (to emphasize his flexibility in combat), to whirl around in semi-acrobatic manuevers. Seeing as he's a 'fighter' whose main goal was to show off to earn money.




So he's a fighter for money (later maybe a touch of fame) who doesn't care about killing someone in one blow needs to entertain the crowd so the will throw coins or bet big on him. He'll need to change up his weapons people don't pay big for the same show they've seen before. I like him just need to start a fighter and break down what you need and don't need(i.e. lose heavy armor for an exotic weapon prof., lose medium armor for toughness etc.) submit what it is you want think ahead and we'lll get him ready.


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> Lets see that same fighter at say lvl 15
> 
> AC= 10 + 3(dex) + 4 (shield) + 15 (BAB) = 32(34 ring +2)
> DR= 8 (full plate)
> 
> hmmm... not bad we are on to something here it just looks alittle over balanced I like using your combat ability(BAB) to defened yourself ...parry, parry, strike
> 
> Any other pros/cons people see??




I thought of other factors that could come in (and will actually restrict the DB in some ways:

Firstly, ACP should be added (it's negative remember) to the AC bonus. A character wearing full plate is actually going to be easier to hit because of the lack of movement the armor imposes. So a first level charcter, not trained as well as a more veteran soldier, is not going to be very effective in his armor. He might gain the benefit of DR, but boy is he going to get smacked more often. As he progresses he becomes more versatile and his parrying skill will compensate for the ACP.

Size: is still a determining factor to AC. It does not really apply to us now because we're all human, but a halfling or a dwarf would gain from this.

You might want to create/modify some new feats to boost the AC score. For example:
Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Proficiency - As per usual. However, if the pc is already proficient in that armor, he becomes more profiecient ito negating the ACP. The amount it helps is up to us to decide +1? +2?
Dodge - Let it be effective against all enemies, and let it be cumulative to increase the AC bonus by 1 every time.


----------



## HolyMan

getting to be alot of paper work let's simplify it:

What do we want ? They ability for a warrior to protect himself when not in armor? I men fighting is different when in leathers than when in full plate(sometimes you would take a hit hoping the armor would absorb the blow) So let's reflex that the way you fight armored and with a shield is not the same as when your in your nightshirt with just a sword. DB should only be used when you have no armor or shield bonus, and shouldn't be a better bonus than an average character of the same lvl wearing armor. That would reflect the character using his fighting prowess both armored and unarmored but the armor adding some protection. 

If Iwere to keep it simple I would add a DB spot to table 3-1 and give a character the bonus as he lvls like BAB and saves and just add an unarmored spot to the character sheet. 

lets keep going this we be useful in night attacks when everyone was asleep oh did I say that oops gtg


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> DB should only be used when you have no armor or shield bonus, and shouldn't be a better bonus than an average character of the same lvl wearing armor. That would reflect the character using his fighting prowess both armored and unarmored but the armor adding some protection.
> 
> If Iwere to keep it simple I would add a DB spot to table 3-1 and give a character the bonus as he lvls like BAB and saves and just add an unarmored spot to the character sheet.




There are a couple of game balance problems that immediately pop to mind:

1. Classes that don't have armor proficiencies gain plenty, whereas those who do have armor proficiencies gain nothing at low and mid levels. The monk for example, now has his normal AC bonuses PLUS his BAB. The arcane classes also gain since they never wear armor. The rogues who do not wear medium or heavy armor because it restricts most of their class skills gain as well. The "tanks" will only really gain once their DBs are higher than the AC bonus provided by the armor and shield - REALLY high levels only. The way you're suggesting does not have equal/fair benefit to the armored classes.

2. Even at really high levels there is an anomaly. It seems a little strange that the armored class, who have been fighting in armor all of their lives, will one day say: "Hey, who needs this metal junk, I'm much better off without it!" The fact that some classes have better armor proficiencies than others, is supposed to give them an advantage throughout their careers. Especially as they have been advancing in their martial prowess with armor all of their lives. 

3. Logically, it does not make sense that the DB should not come into play even while wearing armor. The way we understand it, it is a parrying skill. A fighter who is wearing armor, even heavy-heavy armor, is still going to try to the best of his ability to dodge, parry and block. He doesn’t just stand there and say “OK. Give me your best shot buster.”

Sometimes keeping things too simple is not the solution. My suggestion is really not so complicated. Let me sum it up:

AC = 10 + Dex + Size + Shield + BAB + ACP
Touch = 10 + Dex + Size + BAB + ACP
Flat Footed = 10 + Size + Shield + ACP
DR = AC bonus of armor.
This way, all classes benefit proportionally and fairly, at each level.


----------



## Walking Dad

HolyMan said:


> Walking Dad: The monk AC bonus ability I believe is a fair "swap" for favored enemy, but my question was a little vage. For cocept of the character why would they gain this bonus the favored enemy was because of the hunting (remember you get bonuses on skill checks as well as combat bonuses) and as they become better hunters they gain more benefit against the Tamor and then use these same skills on opponents they are just learning about i.e. a lower bonus vs. new favorites. So my qustion is why the AC bonus and why do they not wear armor -- i'd wear armor if i had to fight a direboar trust me lots of it.
> 
> And that feat I would change to this before I would allow it:sorry
> Improved Toughness- prerequisite: Con 13 Toughness Feat
> Gain +2hp and +1hp/Hit Die or character lvl. Whenever you gain a HD or character lvl gain 1 additional hp.




The concept would be stealth over heavy armor. And if you don't have the armor and hunt the mighty tamor, you will develop an instinct how to avoid it's deadly charge.

The feat is ok. Reminds me of the imp toughness feat from complete warrior:
Improved Toughness- prerequisite: Fort save +2 (or higher)
Gain +1hp/Hit Die or character lvl. Whenever you gain a HD or character lvl gain 1 additional hp.


----------



## wysiwyg

Me again. On a different topic (I am capable of discussing non DB related stuff).

Since we're in the infancy stages of developing unique soldiers for each kingdom (rub my own chest, if I may), I am posting my ideas for them.

I've included the earlier posts before regarding the Pesh soldier (slightly modified). 

Here it comes...(next post)


----------



## wysiwyg

*Soldier of the Kingdom*
*Each kingdom has their unique resources, local and geographic topography and threats that challenge them. Because of this, their trained troops need to be trained in order to best defend their country in the best manner. Their unique fighting strategies and skills mirror the above. They are a base class of one if the warrior classes (Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger) with some modifications. They are also enlisted into the king’s army, entitling them to wages from the state coffers. If however, they are dismissed from their service, they may no longer progress as a soldier of their kingdom.*
All soldiers, irrespective of their origin have the following traits:

*Toughness*: A professional soldier’s life caters for dealing with harsh, strenuous and stressful situation that toughen him more than others. He is entitled to 2 extra HP at 1st level plus one extra HP for every soldier level thereafter.

*Trained*: Due to his military training, each soldier gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls with the weapons used by his army. These weapons however, are the only weapons that he is proficient with.

*Moral*: Moral is critical to the soldier. One who does not have the heart will flee at the first threat. The professional soldier is trained to cope better in the face of danger. He has a moral score equal to his soldier level +2. Moral is further modified by his Wisdom bonus. Moral is used to counter intimidation or fear effects of any kind.

*Presence*: The professionally trained soldier will have a reputation for his martial skills. This reputation grants the soldier Intimidate ranks equal to his level. He may add his Strength or Charisma bonus to his intimidation roll (whichever is higher). 

*Command*: Upon reaching 6th level, the soldier is recognised as a troop leader. He gains the leadership feat and is promoted to an officer in the king’s army.

Each kingdom soldiers is a modification or a base class of one of the core classes.

*Soldier of the Kingdom of Pesh (Focus on skirmish/scouts/guerrilla tactics)*
Men living in the south mountain region of Pesh learn from an early age how to fight the dangerous dire-boars that inhabit the area. These skills are not only used to provide food and hides for their families, but also to protect them from all the other monsters living in the area. Sub-class of the Ranger, with the following modifications:

*Weapon proficiencies*: dagger, club, short-spear, long-spear, quarterstaff, spear, sling, throwing axe, hand axe, short-bow (and composite).

*Level 1*: Favored enemy must be animals; lose the wild empathy ability.

*Combat Style*: Spear & Shield. At 2nd level gain the ability to use a long-spear or spear one handed as long as the other hand has heavy shield in it. Training in throwing regular spears helps with throwing a long-spear, lets him throw a long-spear with a -2 penalty instead of -4. At 6th level further spear throwing training brings the penalty down to zero. Gain the Improved Shield Bash feat. At 11th level when setting a spear or long-spear against a charge you deal triple damage on a successful hit.

*Level 4*: Lose Animal Companion ability and gain Uncanny Dodge ability, because you don't want to be flat-footed when a dire boar breaks from the woods.

*Other*: Loses spell casting ability and gain a bonus feat at levels 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th. 

TO FOLLOW: 
Norden- focus on infantry (heavy and heavier)
Fanshaw- focus artillery/crossbowmen/school of magic (maybe replace with school of magic with fencers)
Reygur- focus light infantry/pike men/sabotage/assassins (pike men seem out of place for sabotage/assassins)
Kurkland- focus on cavalry both light and heavy


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sorry for barging in like this and not reading the 7 pages of discussion. Two questions:

1. Room for one more?
2. Please?


----------



## HolyMan

*Welcome Aboard Myth and Legend*



Myth and Legend said:


> Sorry for barging in like this and not reading the 7 pages of discussion. Two questions:
> 
> 1. Room for one more?
> 2. Please?




One more?? with what I have planned room for 10 more so go ahead make a character and join in the fun we will start July 1 and most of what you need is in this thread please give some feed back on DB if you have a view point. And we try and short names in this thread o.k. to call you ML??


----------



## HolyMan

Walking Dad said:


> The concept would be stealth over heavy armor. And if you don't have the armor and hunt the mighty tamor, you will develop an instinct how to avoid it's deadly charge.
> 
> The feat is ok. Reminds me of the imp toughness feat from complete warrior:
> Improved Toughness- prerequisite: Fort save +2 (or higher)
> Gain +1hp/Hit Die or character lvl. Whenever you gain a HD or character lvl gain 1 additional hp.




Your good to go WD change out the Tamor hunters favored enemy for the monks AC ability and make your spear slinger.  We will start July 1 and do you haave any feedback on the DB talk?

The Improved Toughness Feat you posted didn't have Toughness as a prerequisite?? Then I would call that feat just Tough.

I am off to work be back tonight.


----------



## Theroc

Well, I just need to figure out how to balance trading some fighter features for monk/rogue features, I guess.  Mostly Monk unarmed and such.  Just trying to think of what things would be a fair trade.


----------



## Deskjob

*About Defense Bonus (DB)*

Cool idea.  But I hate DR.

Opinion:  Give everyone the perks of the A1 column from the DB srd20 page.  So, you take off your armor, you get a small perk that grows with you.

Downside:  Some Npc's and badguys can use it too.


----------



## Deskjob

*About Kingdom subclasses*

Very sweet concept.

Opinion:  Each kingdom gets a specific feat.  Pick that kingdom = get that feat at first lvl.  The feats will be smaller than most, and Npc's and badguys can gain them too.

Example:  proficiency with a specific weapon, +2 against poisons, +1 against an animal, or a +1 skill bonus.


----------



## Theroc

Okay, having trouble figuring out a balanced way to mesh Monk features into fighters for my exotic/showoff/pugilist Sub-class... lol

Monk Features that are relatively important to the concept:
Unarmed progression(beating a guy in full plate with bare hands has gotta earn him props)
AC bonus(He'll need to be agile to showoff)
Movement Speed bonus(Again, agile/athletic)

FoB and Ki Strike progression to get around DR would be nice, but I'm easily willing to let these two go, seeing as I can only lose so many feats and such.

Things I am thinking of losing:
At the very least, medium-heavy armor(Probably light too, if the AC bonus will still require no shields/armor)
Shield proficiencies
Will narrow martial weapon choices a bit
Some bonus feats throughout the progression

I'll probably see about getting him an exotic weapons in exchange for losing the variety of martial weapon availability, but that's probably because I really have no idea how to mix the stuff I want into a balanced class, as I have a horrible tendency to crunch stuff compulsively.


----------



## Deskjob

*Fighter/Monk Hybrid*

Sounds like you should just start as a monk and multiclass fighter around lv4 or 5.  Monks can keep there learned stuff even after they multiclass.  Ya just can't gain any more lv's in Monk after.

Or do you need all your abilities at lv1?  Haha, just kidding.  I know, I wish!  That would be awesome.  (ahem, ok... I'll just shut up now...)


----------



## Theroc

Deskjob said:


> Sounds like you should just start as a monk and multiclass fighter around lv4 or 5.  Monks can keep there learned stuff even after they multiclass.  Ya just can't gain any more lv's in Monk after.
> 
> Or do you need all your abilities at lv1?  Haha, just kidding.  I know, I wish!  That would be awesome.  (ahem, ok... I'll just shut up now...)




lol, I have a paranoid thing about leaving classes that have "You can never go back" clauses.  If I start one, I'd feel compelled to level it to 20 before leaving it, unless I took one of the "You can freely multiclass between X and Y" feats... which aren't Core... so, I'd have to do it the other way around, lol.

Edit: Also, Holyman just stumbled upon your accidental fork.

Forking is good for when you know what you'd be about to post in a thread would be a tangent not directly related to the thread itself, but something that turned up in the discussion.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Concept: Provided we are not allowed to use books like Complete Warrior, Unearthed Arcana etc... Here is a rough brainstormed draft of the character story:

Loreen (Lora for short), a young bright girl of age 17, with exceptional intellect, a sound dexterous body and a natural beauty. She has an older brother (23) who served in the local militia. When Lora was younger (age 14) she would regularly accompany her brother when she didn't have chores to do or help her parents on the farm and fields. A quick learner and naturally adept at anything she undertook, the girl followed trough with the basic militia training nicely, despite her frail age.

She was a happy and carefree child, until she caught the eye of one of the senior soldiers, who took her by force one evening as she was going home from practice (her brother had to sleep in the barracks). After the incident the man was whipped, removed from the militia and sent off to be trialed by the regional magistrate. Lora, however, was never quite the same. She locked herself in and became distant, silent and lost all desire to talk and play.

Still an able child, she would draw and bring fantastical landscapes and magical creatures to life on the canvas. Lora's parents and brother were thoroughly concerned for her however, and sought out the aid of a local wise woman. The woman was both a healer and alchemist, as well as (reputedly although not proven) a witch. She told them that nothing short of time would heal the wound, but offered the parents to take on Lora as an apprentice.

The girl reluctantly accepted, and for several years she learned much of history, religion, ancient texts, and even magic, for it turned out that the old wise woman was an able spellcaster.

Lora gradually became more open towards the world, as the memory of her trauma faded away, but never truly disappearing. One afternoon, she received a letter from her brother:

_"Dear Lora,

I have been conscripted along with much of the militia force, to go and defend our kingdom in the upcoming war. I wish you to be brave and obedient, and ask of you to take care of our parents. Do not worry yourself about me, for we shall see each other soon, baby sister.

Love, 
Arthur"

_Lora couldn't let him go off to war alone however, and so as soon as she got the letter, the girl packed her meager belongings and ran away from her tutor's house, leaving her a small note for her and Lora's parents...

Mechanics:

Wizard 1-5, Eldritch Knight 5-15 (provided we go that far).

I require you allow the Milita feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun - it gives full martial weapon proficiency, as this will allow me to enter Eldritch Knight without taking a level in a warrior class.

For craft/profession. Well Lora is a farm girl obviously, but her true talent is drawing (Craft: Drawing will be taken). She will also be getting various Knowledge skills, Spellcraft etc.

Sound good?


----------



## HolyMan

Deskjob said:


> Cool idea. But I hate DR.
> 
> Opinion: Give everyone the perks of the A1 column from the DB srd20 page. So, you take off your armor, you get a small perk that grows with you.
> 
> Downside: Some Npc's and badguys can use it too.




I was thinking of puting new column in AC spot : +1/2 BAB

Everyone would get a bonus not to high and it would be roleplay helpful the lowlvll fighter against the seasoned warrior

So lets go with that for now so we can get on to other topics/characters
and we could always play different missions with different houserules.


----------



## HolyMan

*Soldier of the Kingdom*

This sounds more like a prestige class to me I think we should use the list as a concepts guide line just to add flavor and you make your character up from there what i see is this:

Pesh(skirmish,gurellia tatics,scouts):
1.Barbarian base class- these Peshmen preform supply raids and rear defense for the army
2.Ranger base class- used as trackers and advance scouting
3.Rogue base class- focus on shortbows and ambushing from cover
4.Fighter base class- advanced lines/patrols traveling light and fast but can hit hard and run off
5.Sorcerer base class- multily uses do to spells/ spying(disguise self,charm person,) augment (cats grace,magic weapon) counterspell

The list goes on for every class just pick the stlye you like and twink towards your ideal class.

Player only note: It is weird that a kingdom that has gotten most it's protection from the horselords to the north would start to build an army using light infantry/pikes/and archers. You don't think with the upcoming war the DM would through alittle internal(five kingdoms) strife about. Naa the PC's will be busy enough with the upcoming war he wouldn't do that.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Okay, having trouble figuring out a balanced way to mesh Monk features into fighters for my exotic/showoff/pugilist Sub-class... lol
> 
> Monk Features that are relatively important to the concept:
> Unarmed progression(beating a guy in full plate with bare hands has gotta earn him props)
> AC bonus(He'll need to be agile to showoff)
> Movement Speed bonus(Again, agile/athletic)
> 
> FoB and Ki Strike progression to get around DR would be nice, but I'm easily willing to let these two go, seeing as I can only lose so many feats and such.
> 
> Things I am thinking of losing:
> At the very least, medium-heavy armor(Probably light too, if the AC bonus will still require no shields/armor)
> Shield proficiencies
> Will narrow martial weapon choices a bit
> Some bonus feats throughout the progression
> 
> I'll probably see about getting him an exotic weapons in exchange for losing the variety of martial weapon availability, but that's probably because I really have no idea how to mix the stuff I want into a balanced class, as I have a horrible tendency to crunch stuff compulsively.




Just take Monk class twink it to become Circle Warrior and then you can take ranks of fighter and go back to Circle Warrior it won't be the monk class anymore.


----------



## Myth and Legend

> Player only note: It is weird that a kingdom that has gotten most it's protection from the horselords to the north would start to build an army using light infantry/pikes/and archers. You don't think with the upcoming war the DM would through alittle internal(five kingdoms) strife about. Naa the PC's will be busy enough with the upcoming war he wouldn't do that.



Well it seems you are aiming for a somewhat accurate representation of medieval armies (with added magic). In which regard no one type of unit should dominate. Real armies in the middle ages had the bulk be raw conscripts/levies and other poor foot soldiers. Archer formations regularly had men-at-arms stationed in between ranks to help with melee battle, although the archers themselves frequently dropped their bows and charged (yes charged) in melee quite effectively. Spears, Pikes and lager Halberds were employed with great success versus mounted men-at-arms but a determined charge could not be stopped with ease. 

So an army had all the key "kinds" of soldiers, of course the rich nobility and successful professional soldiers making the core of the heavily armoured and well armed cavalry. An army also dragged a very large amount of smiths, fetchers, cooks, washers and all other manner of craftsmen/tradesmen and other civilians.. Oh don't get me started on this i can ramble on forever  My point is, if you are aiming for realism no one kingdom should be focusing on one kind of soldiers, and the other on counter soldiers - that's gaming talk, not realism.

Even if you try and give an example with the infamous and over-hyped English Longbow for example, a closer study on the battles in the hundred year war would show you that the English did not employ ONLY longbow men (although approximately 9000 were used at Crecy) and most of their victories were due to better leadership, tactics, terrain and morale. Ok i really need to shut up now


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Concept: Provided we are not allowed to use books like Complete Warrior, Unearthed Arcana etc... Here is a rough brainstormed draft of the character story:
> 
> Loreen (Lora for short), a young bright girl of age 17, with exceptional intellect, a sound dexterous body and a natural beauty. She has an older brother (23) who served in the local militia. When Lora was younger (age 14) she would regularly accompany her brother when she didn't have chores to do or help her parents on the farm and fields. A quick learner and naturally adept at anything she undertook, the girl followed trough with the basic militia training nicely, despite her frail age.
> 
> She was a happy and carefree child, until she caught the eye of one of the senior soldiers, who took her by force one evening as she was going home from practice (her brother had to sleep in the barracks). After the incident the man was whipped, removed from the militia and sent off to be trialed by the regional magistrate. Lora, however, was never quite the same. She locked herself in and became distant, silent and lost all desire to talk and play.
> 
> Still an able child, she would draw and bring fantastical landscapes and magical creatures to life on the canvas. Lora's parents and brother were thoroughly concerned for her however, and sought out the aid of a local wise woman. The woman was both a healer and alchemist, as well as (reputedly although not proven) a witch. She told them that nothing short of time would heal the wound, but offered the parents to take on Lora as an apprentice.
> 
> The girl reluctantly accepted, and for several years she learned much of history, religion, ancient texts, and even magic, for it turned out that the old wise woman was an able spellcaster.
> 
> Lora gradually became more open towards the world, as the memory of her trauma faded away, but never truly disappearing. One afternoon, she received a letter from her brother:
> 
> _"Dear Lora,_
> 
> _I have been conscripted along with much of the militia force, to go and defend our kingdom in the upcoming war. I wish you to be brave and obedient, and ask of you to take care of our parents. Do not worry yourself about me, for we shall see each other soon, baby sister._
> 
> _Love, _
> _Arthur"_
> 
> Lora couldn't let him go off to war alone however, and so as soon as she got the letter, the girl packed her meager belongings and ran away from her tutor's house, leaving her a small note for her and Lora's parents...
> 
> Mechanics:
> 
> Wizard 1-5, Eldritch Knight 5-15 (provided we go that far).
> 
> I require you allow the Milita feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun - it gives full martial weapon proficiency, as this will allow me to enter Eldritch Knight without taking a level in a warrior class.
> 
> For craft/profession. Well Lora is a farm girl obviously, but her true talent is drawing (Craft: Drawing will be taken). She will also be getting various Knowledge skills, Spellcraft etc.
> 
> Sound good?




Please post full description of Milita feat.

But with the detailed background explaining how she came about learning weapons and the sub Quest (+20xp it brought a tear to me eye) I believe it will be approved.

Post Lora in the RG when you have time Starting July1


----------



## HolyMan

*The armies*

I have wanted to keep some realism but what is listed is the core of each army their specialty. Norden(heavy infanrty) would have some crossbowmen and even calavry though not much only nobles most likely. But what i listed is over 50% of what they would deploy so characters would most likely be that style.

Love Lora's concept can't wait to see wht you come up with in the RG;
oh let me know when you post her.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sure, it does what i described, more or less:

[sblock=Militia (regional)]Your people rely on well-trained and well-armed militia to defend their land. You're no stranger to the use of weapons.

*Prerequisite:* Half-Elf (Aglarond), Halfling (Luiren), or Human (Altumbel, the Dalelands, Impiltur, Samarach, Thindol, Turmish)

*Benefit:* You gain proficiency with all martial weapons.

*Special:* You may select this only as a 1-st level character, You may have only one regional feat.[/sblock]

I'm glad you liked Lora's story. I wanted a deep, hard to RP character, and this concept just came to me. I will polish it and add some more detail in the RG post. Where is the RG link by the way? Also, can you please list all house rules in your first post on page 1? So far i know i have to be human and add +2 skills/level, and gain a free 2/2 feat. Anything else?


----------



## HolyMan

HolyMan said:


> Character Generation :
> 
> So far I have this-
> 
> Starting lvl 1- The PC's are commoners/tradesmen not yet in the lords upper circle but through their exploits they may come to join or lead note:I am going to use a special system to reward xp based on roleplay posts, completed missions, and real time passed (as per LEW- Ilike that rule) So moving up levels will be faster than usually pbp.
> 
> Generation:
> 1.Abilities- 35pts to buy abilities as per DmG pg 169 (The high points is two fold;1- Humans get know ability adjustment so this helps alittle and 2- the PC's will need to stand out in a crowd)
> 2.Class-Any
> 3.Race-Human (again sorry)
> 4.Skills- houserule please add 2pts to the base of the class you have chosen (i.e. Wizards base skill pts=4, Rogue base skill pts=10)
> 5.Feat- In addition to human bonus feat all players may select one +2/+2 feat for their charater (otherwise those feats will never be used and again the PC's need to stand out)
> 6.Equipment-Starting gold will be limited to the average listed for your class(pg 111 PhB). As the characters will be feed and provided for as they travel and when they are sent out on a mission they might recieve equipment from the quartermaster. houserule any character with ranks in Craft or Profession may make a skill check after starting gold is spent and then add that money to there leftover cash.




I believe that i am going to have to post a five kingdoms campaign thread and house rules thread as soon as i locate the right places and that is a weekend /day off job.
As long as Milita takes one of your feat slots it is alright as is.
use the above as guidelines and we will be adding the +1/2BAB to AC and you could use your +20 xp to scribe scrolls if you want

EDIT: opps for got this
http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/257898-rg-off-war.html


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## Myth and Legend

+1/2BAB to AC - this probably does not concern a Wizard right  Thank you for the bonus XP, I'm not sure what good will scrolls be, but i will think about it's use!

When i delve deeper in DnD and all the books, PrCs and rules i plan on running my own game, and will be rewarding roleplaying in a similar fashion 

On Lora and her entry in the adventure. She is reluctant to go in to a military camp where she will remember the nightmare, and be surrounded by men. Strong, armed men no less! She ran away but the girl is exceptionally smart, so she has not charged in witlessly. My plan for her:

Take 20 on a Forgery check to counterfeit an order granting her access to the military camp and demanding asssitance by any soldiers in the army under pain of severe punishment, signed .. (well whomever is doing the recruiting). For that she will need to get her hands on a recruitment poster or some similar thing. You know, the ones nailed around town "THE ARMY WANTS YOU!". If she can see one she can get a hefty bonus:_ To forge a document on which the handwriting is not specific to a person (military orders, a government decree, a business ledger, or the like), you need only to have seen a similar document before, and you gain a +8 bonus on your check_

The total will be 20+4(int)+8=32

So with this piece of paper she hopes to ward off any potential... suitors (provided they can read). And even extort aid if need be.

She will also take 20 on a Craft: Drawing to make a very good portrait of her brother (28 total check) to try and locate him in the camp.

What do you think about this?


----------



## wysiwyg

I seem to be missing the heavy updating times. That's what you get for being in a different time zone than everyone else.

I also love Lora. A really cool PC.

I think the +1/2 BAB is also a very simple & proportional feature given to all classes (and to the NPCs we'd be facing too...). Of course none of us have any AC bonus (yet) as our BAB cannot be more than +1, but it will improve. Good.

Holyman, I'm just concerned that some of the class modifications seem to overpower the PC's ito combat. A lot of class abilties that are not so frequently used and are not generally combat oriented are being exchanged for frequently used combat abilities. This makes the PC overly combat dominant. It's easy to build the ultimate warrior by discarding all the useless class abiltiies (some of them are really useless). But the question is: is it fair? The ranger and monk have 1001 class abilties, of which most/alot do not come into combat. Is it fair to replace them with combat modifiers?Also, how would you customize the fighter class for who has no class abilities to exchange? 

Gotta run. Be back later.


----------



## HolyMan

It will it is the parrying rule using the weapon in defense as much as your armor and nimbleness. So when you get up in lvl it will mean goblins will have a harder time getting that lucky hit in.

Heading to bed real world in the morning have fun making your character can't wait to see what you come up with.


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## Myth and Legend

Well I'm in the same time zone i think, i'ts 7.50 AM here and i'm going to bed too  Also, HolyMan, please see my previous post as i just edited it with another idea i had about Lora.


----------



## wysiwyg

I'm back (from the real world/work thingy).

Anyways, as I was saying, I feel too much tinkering will result in ultra powerful superheroes. I thought of a simple solution:

1. Each PC chooses a core class (without tinkering it). 
2. Choose 4 skills that will become background skills (chosen at 1st level only). These skills will always count as class skills. 
3. Gain a bonus feat and +2 on the background skills for his/her adolecent period. 

And that's it.

So the spartan/hunter for eaxample, can be a fighter, choose the tracking feat, and choose survival as a background skill (plus a few other skills). No extra HP, weapon focus bonus, AC bonus, uncanny dodge etc.

That's it for now. What do you think?


----------



## Walking Dad

I think no. I am/was interested in this game for it's mutability.

Your suggestion is nowhere near the character I had thought of.

And to get rid of superheroes, play E6 or ban all classes with a magic or supernatural ability.

Anyways, '3. Gain a bonus feat and +2 on the background skills for his/her adole*s*cent period' Is just bad. A ranger can get no bonus to the survival skill, but only classes who are not having the skill normally on their skill list?


----------



## wysiwyg

Walking Dad said:


> I think no. I am/was interested in this game for it's mutability.?
> 
> Your suggestion is nowhere near the character I had thought of.
> 
> And to get rid of superheroes, play E6 or ban all classes with a magic or supernatural ability.
> 
> Anyways, '3. Gain a bonus feat and +2 on the background skills for his/her adole*s*cent period' Is just bad. A ranger can get no bonus to the survival skill, but only classes who are not having the skill normally on their skill list?




There's big a difference between mutability and abuse. I feel that by overpowering the combat abilities the game balance is being compromised greatly. There is nothing worse than having a player dominate every combat.

In regards to the skills, you're right. But this could be easily changed to as follows: 
Gain 4 new background skills to add to your skill list. These will always be class skills.
Gain +2 bonus on any 2 skills in your skill list (not neccessarily the background skills).


----------



## Theroc

For the most part, I'm tinkering for flavor's sake... Monk is closest, but there are quite a few things that wouldn't fit a farmboy as far as I can tell.  I'm working on what those are, but I think chances are this may actually weaken the monk rather than make him stronger... but I'm not certain.

Holyman, how do you want me to present the 'Circle Fighter'(I'm thinking of trying to find a different name, since my character isn't restricted to the circle fighting to earn money.)

Do I just say what is traded, or do you want me to do the wordpad attachment with the details? (I'm not certain my format would be pretty)


----------



## ghostcat

I have posted Trinham to the RG thread.


----------



## Deskjob

*Trinham and Supra-heroes*

Hahaha.  I love it.  An overweight battlemage with an 18 cha.  So tight.

As for Supra-heroes, I love em'.  Nothin' like the fresh smell of free exp.  Haha, just say "Go get'em kid, I'll stay here and watch."  ...(10 mins later)
"Ouch, that looked liked it hurt.  Poor guy... oh well.  Who wants coffee?!"


----------



## Myth and Legend

I'm not thinking straight, i'll post the character over the weekend. The concept is good i don't want to mess it up.


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> There's big a difference between mutability and abuse. I feel that by overpowering the combat abilities the game balance is being compromised greatly. There is nothing worse than having a player dominate every combat.
> 
> In regards to the skills, you're right. But this could be easily changed to as follows:
> Gain 4 new background skills to add to your skill list. These will always be class skills.
> Gain +2 bonus on any 2 skills in your skill list (not neccessarily the background skills).




Remember all your changes are subject to player scruplation/DM approval why some changes may seem to add to the combat they should also add to the roleplay even the combat roleplay. You see were you list Gain +2 bonus skills in your skill list (not neccessarily the background skills) That s just getting the +2/+2 feat but were yours is just to seperste numbers were you need them the most, taking the feat defines your character- stealthy,agile,persuasive your not just adding bonuses your adding personality/character for lack of a better word so I believe.

The same is with swaping out you just don't switch this for something better you switch it to make your character more personal to a style concept your playing now somethings aren't switchable I forgot to mention this because it hasn't come up. Any class can get rid of a class feature for a feat /ability/bonus but some class features are only allowed in the base class example:

Rouge:
as base class has trapfinding 
if taken as base class may drop trapfinding for something else
if your base class is something else say fighter you may not drop a feat/ability to gain trapfinding

Almost every class has a few some have none will go over as need.

Character mutation should be fun you all get to play mad scientist.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> For the most part, I'm tinkering for flavor's sake... Monk is closest, but there are quite a few things that wouldn't fit a farmboy as far as I can tell. I'm working on what those are, but I think chances are this may actually weaken the monk rather than make him stronger... but I'm not certain.
> 
> Holyman, how do you want me to present the 'Circle Fighter'(I'm thinking of trying to find a different name, since my character isn't restricted to the circle fighting to earn money.)
> 
> Do I just say what is traded, or do you want me to do the wordpad attachment with the details? (I'm not certain my format would be pretty)




Just post him here let me know the base class and then what changes are mad and why you are thinking of making them

Any name you want your right circle fighter sounds like a prestige class


----------



## HolyMan

*ghostcat*

Take size out of AC area and change to DB

Add +1 to damage with a thrown dagger

Change explorer's outfit to weight 0lb

+5 misc bonus to move silently?

Add spells per day 

Could you list what is in your belt pouh/ backpack incase you lose one

have you with 33 gp
eye color?


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> I'm not thinking straight, i'll post the character over the weekend. The concept is good i don't want to mess it up.




o.k. ML (hope you didn't lose your job) take your time we start July 1 but it will be roleplay/ready for mission you'll still have a couple days

Edit:
I have created a few new threads (wysiwyg my ideals man keep them coming) the links are in the first post of this thread. They are both DM only threads one for character gen/houserules and one for the campaign setting. Everything posted there has been posted here so far so you may not need to take a look yet but i will be adding an XP post and later the campaign will contain rumors that relate to the adventure so they are easy to see again. Not have to go searching through posts to find them.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Well i'll know on Monday for sure.. In any event life goes on. So, tell me what do you think about my idea (i will repost it for your convenience):

On Lora and her entry in the adventure. She is reluctant to go in to a military camp where she will remember the nightmare, and be surrounded by men. Strong, armed men no less! She ran away but the girl is exceptionally smart, so she has not charged in witlessly. My plan for her:

Take 20 on a Forgery check to counterfeit an order granting her access to the military camp and demanding assistance by any soldiers in the army under pain of severe punishment, signed .. (well whomever is doing the recruiting). For that she will need to get her hands on a recruitment poster or some similar thing. You know, the ones nailed around town "THE ARMY WANTS YOU!". If she can see one she can get a hefty bonus:_ To forge a document on which the handwriting is not specific to a person (military orders, a government decree, a business ledger, or the like), you need only to have seen a similar document before, and you gain a +8 bonus on your check_

The total will be 20+4(int)+8=32

So with this piece of paper she hopes to ward off any potential... suitors (provided they can read). And even extort aid if need be.

She will also take 20 on a Craft: Drawing to make a very good portrait of her brother (28 total check) to try and locate him in the camp.

What do you think about this?


----------



## HolyMan

*to ML*

you do not need my o.k. to try something for your character go ahead and try it ... but you knew there was a but right. I would not allow you to start with the document remember taking 20 requires time because it assumes you have made mistakes while persuing your goal

So what I know of her background a hurried flight out and then joining up finding a document and then going threw drafts while every once and awhile working on your brothers portiat will take time so yes it is possible and i believe a good ideal adding more to the character or at least giing you more to roleplay with(always a good thing)

when you do equipment don't orget artisan's tools or it's a -2 on craft checks

Nite all 4 more days till we start!!


----------



## Myth and Legend

Posted Lora, with a slightly expanded background. Tell me if you want a specific mention of the Acrobatic feat (although i have praised her physical capabilities enough i think). 

Need help with deity (outlined it for you in the sheet) as this is a homebrew world.

Also, i was wandering which weapon to go for. We have enough archers as it is, so my Eldritch Knight build would be focusing on melee. I took Dodge to go for the Whirlwind Attack tree, and Glavie (although i was wandering weather this weapon suits her). Let me know if i should change anything.


----------



## Deskjob

*Lora <3*

I <3 Lora.

Simple as that!  She is gonna be the meanest greenest soldier in this whole dang army. Haha.  (...Lets not get jealous guys)  *wink wink

And glaive is perfect.  It sounds just like that weapon all the Japanese samurai women where taught to use; the naginata.  And!?  With whirlwind attack, it will be like... Kapow!!! 

...and everyone dead.

Oh, and WalkingDad.  I totally look forward to your badass hunter dude.


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> The same is with swaping out you just don't switch this for something better you switch it to make your character more personal to a style concept your playing now somethings aren't switchable I forgot to mention this because it hasn't come up. Any class can get rid of a class feature for a feat /ability/bonus but some class features are only allowed in the base class example:
> 
> Rouge:
> as base class has trapfinding
> if taken as base class may drop trapfinding for something else
> if your base class is something else say fighter you may not drop a feat/ability to gain trapfinding
> 
> Almost every class has a few some have none will go over as need




Here's my problem: You're assuming that class abilities are equivalent to a feat. In most cases abilities are not as powerful (note I did say most cases). Look at the ranger class. It has 13 class abilities in the first 11 levels, including spell casting. Would it be fair to allow a PC to take the ranger class and be able to replace them for 13 feats plus exchange his spell castings for another 2 feats as well (one given at 5th and one given at 10th), for a total of 15 feats! That’s 2.5 times more feats than a fighter of the same level – and feats are and the fighter class’ forte. Not to mention, that for WD you had even given him more feat-like abilities than the ones he has swapped. Some of those abilities are also other base class abilities (uncanny dodge, the monk's AC bonus), which according to you is a no-no. Some of the new abilities are super feats – the Tough feature gives (as opposed to the regular toughness feat) him as much HP per level as a fighter. 

The only thing WD class has in common with a ranger is the fact that they are hunters. In every other aspect, they are fighters. I feel that the class has given an inch and received a mile ito combat. Why not rather make him a fighter, let him take the tracking feat, swap one of his class skills for survival. 

I think you should look over the swap rule, and especially WD class features.


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> Here's my problem: You're assuming that class abilities are equivalent to a feat. In most cases abilities are not as powerful (note I did say most cases). Look at the ranger class. It has 13 class abilities in the first 11 levels, including spell casting. Would it be fair to allow a PC to take the ranger class and be able to replace them for 13 feats plus exchange his spell castings for another 2 feats as well (one given at 5th and one given at 10th), for a total of 15 feats! That’s 2.5 times more feats than a fighter of the same level – and feats are and the fighter class’ forte. Not to mention, that for WD you had even given him more feat-like abilities than the ones he has swapped. Some of those abilities are also other base class abilities (uncanny dodge, the monk's AC bonus), which according to you is a no-no. Some of the new abilities are super feats – the Tough feature gives (as opposed to the regular toughness feat) him as much HP per level as a fighter.
> 
> The only thing WD class has in common with a ranger is the fact that they are hunters. In every other aspect, they are fighters. I feel that the class has given an inch and received a mile ito combat. Why not rather make him a fighter, let him take the tracking feat, swap one of his class skills for survival.
> 
> I think you should look over the swap rule, and especially WD class features.



No you are correct you do get more but then if you didn't get alittle more why would you change anything. The change is to play the kind of character you want who plays an archer in full plate you want no acpp penalty to stalking and hiding. The class abilities do swap out for feats the easiest but that doesn't mean you get a combat feat I give skill bonus and other non combats just as much. So if he gets more feats they are character devlopment feats that are the extras. And not all class abilities are a "no-no" some abilities for monks its flurry of blows/strikes /body development/unarmed damage monk has the longest list because they have the most abilities. At my hiome game it was easy to switch there were just 5 of us and played the standards in this setting I can see alot more will be envolved to keep some balance. But balance doesn't mean 1-1 it means getting the style/character even if a 2-1 happens now and again. And you need to remember the extra s I give out will either be skill based or a feat nobody ever takes or uses(i.e. Improved Sheild Bash) Just kool to have but would you raather bash the bugbear or put the point of your spear through him? Now say the bugbear had info you need then bashings a good ideal lucky your pretty good at it. So hard on here to get a round table discussion bare with me please and keep an eye out for things you think or overdone. Look at the Tamor hunter again you'll find he's just a specialized fighter with some woodland skills, the reason i used ranger as a base class was because after breaking down a fighter to get a bunch of new class skills i found thatthey were all on the ranger list. Tough feat balances bad rolls and takes up two feat spots I can't say anything bad about that.

Note under my swapping out of spells you get to trade in the ability to cast 12+ spells PER DAY for 4 feats thats not even??

wysiwyg is offical co DM (hope he likes the job) duties to be posted as i figure them out right now he's job is to question things so i don't miss anything anyone may ask wysiwyg about a swap out from here on out if he allows it you can have it


----------



## HolyMan

*For ML*

In regards to Lora:

where you have added +2 skills per houserule coukld read
Skill points: 36 (4base + 4Int mod.)x4 + 4(human bonus)
Skill points per level: 9 (4base + 4Int mod. + 1human bonus)
Skill points max ranks: Class: 4  Cross-class: 2

list Wizard abilities Summon Familar(unused),Spellcasting,Spellbook,etc
weapon prof. are you prof with all simple weapons?

Starting gold is not 120 is 75 sorry

Background is great and make a deity it will be a lesser god/patheon there is not much of a Deities and Demigods done but the beauty of that is you will only know what your characters know instead of having you walk a dark temple (with the player knowledge it is deicated to a good diety)you ll only know what your characters now and you might not be so sure one of the reasons i'm liking pbp


----------



## Deskjob

*DM wysiwyg*

First your totally badass, now your co-DM.  Can you get much cooler?  No, I didn't think so...

HolyMan you get props.  No, not props... +20 exp.  Go ahead wysiwyg, give it to him!  Give HolyMan his +20(I freakin' rock)exp.


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry deskjob my charcter sheet doesn't have room for +20 exp (wish it did I'm so close to lvl 678,890 trillion- need 13 more pts.) By the way have you made the changes to Shinn so i can recheck i need to get an active characters posted in the RG you want to be first?

Edit: looks like all you need to do is lose size in the AC column and change to DB will be +0 for now


----------



## Myth and Legend

> where you have added +2 skills per houserule coukld read
> Skill points: 36 (4base + 4Int mod.)x4 + 4(human bonus)
> Skill points per level: 9 (4base + 4Int mod. + 1human bonus)
> Skill points max ranks: Class: 4  Cross-class: 2



added this



> list Wizard abilities Summon Familar(unused),Spellcasting,Spellbook,etc



 done, and chose Rat familiar 



> weapon prof. are you prof with all simple weapons?



added block - all simple and martial (due to the Milita feat remember?)



> Starting gold is not 120 is 75 sorry



 Oh well. Didn't know what to do with this much money any way. Removed the potion for 50 gp and the Bow so she can afford her own spellbook  I'm sure that a bow can be found somewhre later on.



> Background is great and make a deity it will be a lesser god/patheon there is not much of a Deities and Demigods done but the beauty of that is you will only know what your characters know instead of having you walk a dark temple (with the player knowledge it is deicated to a good diety)you ll only know what your characters now and you might not be so sure one of the reasons i'm liking pbp



added a deity.

I'm very happy that Lora is liked so much!  I'm sure i will enjoy playing her! Though, my fellow players should not expect her to be buckets of sunshine..


----------



## HolyMan

A rat familiar well I hope Ginger and Mogins get along well together.

Everything looks ready to go will be using Invisible Castle for rolling but for now when you have time check in on any discussions posted here and fell free to respond.

And invite a friend that goes for everyone.


----------



## Deskjob

*Char sheet changes*

Just finished swapping out Size for DB.  That was the last change to make.   Character sheet should be all fancy-shmancy and good-to-go.

I'm gonna go eat some ice cream now.  yum!  Keep on rockin' ppls!  Peace.


----------



## wysiwyg

Co-DM...is that like a 3-star general? Thanks for the promotion. I am only intending to be a secondary arbitrator/advisor, nothing more though.

I have attached the Tamor Hunter as it stands now in a neat format. I still feel that the class is unbalanced, but if you feel that it's not an issue, than it's not - this is your game after all. 

Some points to consider about the class:

I think there are too many bonus feats that were given at first level (he has 5!). There is no reason to give him so many. The ranger only had 3 abilities at this level. I think weapon focus & skill focus (intimidate) are redunctant extras that he can pay from his normal 1st level feats.

Also, I noticed that intimidation is something built into the class, even though it's not in the ranger's class skill list. I added intimidation at the cost of: ride, swim (it's a mountainous region that they come from) & handle animal (since mountainous people usually do not have much livestock to look after - unless they look after tamors ).

Is there a reason he needs the monk's AC bonus? The monk has it because of his kung-fu training - I doubt the T/H have that kind of skill. Why can just they not wear light armor instead? 

Favourite enemy must, I repeat must stay: The tamor's themselves! The whole class is named after this creature, for heaven's sake!! It might be that it's not the greatest class ability, but that's no reason to discard it, especially for the *TAMOR HUNTERS*.

Let me know how you feel, and whether I should redraft the attachment.

On a different note: I am actually in the process of immigrating. I am leaving SA on the 4th of July. I am hoping to have a phone line up and running sometimes between 7th-10th July. Instead of having a hiccup in my playing session, my PC (that I have not yet thought of) should maybe only be introduced after I am settled in. This way we won't have our first AWOL before the game even started.


----------



## wysiwyg

I thought of something to play. This is a variant of the monk class that uses one weapon (and one weapon only) to specialize in, instead of unarmed strikes. He loses all of his weapon proficiencies besides for one (of his choice). He gains light armor instead (that can be used in conjunction with AC bonuses). There are a few changes. see the attachment.

I have already included our +2 skill points to the class skills. Otherwise minor wordings have been changed, usually the words "unarmed strike" have been replaced by just plain "strike".

Feedback?


----------



## HolyMan

I forgot intimidate??
That was the whole tough enough to scare a direboar theme I was going for. It's why i need you co-DM (not a three star general but your plastic badge and lifetime supply of caffine is in the mail ) I am off to work just checking in be back 5-6ish est to go over things and let you know.

Oh and ask WalkingDad about the AC thing I just think he likes his characters running around in leather speedos(just kidding WD)


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Take size out of AC area and change to DB
> 
> Add +1 to damage with a thrown dagger
> 
> Change explorer's outfit to weight 0lb
> 
> +5 misc bonus to move silently?
> 
> Add spells per day
> 
> Could you list what is in your belt pouh/ backpack incase you lose one
> 
> have you with 33 gp
> eye color?




Changes made as requested.

+5 misc bonus to move silently consists of +2 from Stealty feat and +3 from Cat familiar. I suspect that its the familiar bonus that's confusing, so how would you like it shown?


----------



## Myth and Legend

HolyMan if you want to advertise your game and draw in more players, you can do so here  http://www.enworld.org/forum/talkin...rs-read-first-post-thread-updated-5-21-a.html.  Since a lot of people post in Talking the Talk every day, keeping track of new games popping up is somewhat hard.


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> Changes made as requested.
> 
> +5 misc bonus to move silently consists of +2 from Stealty feat and +3 from Cat familiar. I suspect that its the familiar bonus that's confusing, so how would you like it shown?




First off did you check out those pdfs??? Can i pick a co-DM or what? great work wysiwyg and just take your time getting settled in this thread isn't over till the 15lvl megabattle vs. the Treylor happens!!

To ghostcat:
just take and mark the +5 with a * and add this under your skills * +3 bonus from familiar-- there is a distance limit to that right hey help me out co-DM earn that caffine lol


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> HolyMan if you want to advertise your game and draw in more players, you can do so here http://www.enworld.org/forum/talkin...rs-read-first-post-thread-updated-5-21-a.html. Since a lot of people post in Talking the Talk every day, keeping track of new games popping up is somewhat hard.




I am posted in there:   http://www.enworld.org/forum/4833640-post631.html  are you allowed to post twice i may post again if the last page of that thread changes


----------



## Theroc

Still haven't gotten a good name for the class, but here's what I've got so far:
(Still no name for it yet)[Base Class Monk]
Swapping Concentration for Bluff, Knowledge: Arcana for Intimidate, Knowledge: Religion for diplomacy

Swapping Still Mind for another 2/2 feat (I'd just say a feat... but still mind really is weak, but since this class isn't based too much around mystical training, resistance to enchantments didn't make much sense)

Swapping Diamond Soul for a Bonus feat (Again, spell resistance doesn't make a ton of sense for a mundane combatant)

Swapping Empty Body for a bonus feat (Becoming ethereal... again... doesn't fit a showfighter without mystical training)

Swapping Ki Strike: Lawful for a bonus feat (This class has no alignment leaning, really.)

One thing I was hoping to change to suit better, was to key this classes AC bonus on Charisma instead of Wisdom(and hopefully stunning fist uses too), the reasoning being that this is more of a 'streetwise' character than one who has learned higher wisdom and such.

Trade Proficiency with Shuriken to proficency with Shortbows(Bows would likely be more useful(than crossbows) for hunting any sort of creature that may steal the families chickens or whatnot, and most farmer's don't see shurikens that much...)

Trade Proficiency with Siangham and nun-chucks for profiency with a great axe (Farmer boy cutting up wood for the family)

Trade proficiency with heavy crossbow and sai for Spiked Chain proficiency(Learned due to it's rarity making it more impressive to wield effectively).

I suppose this sounds like a lot of changes, but I tried to keep it more towards a more mundane(magicwise) theme and such.

Opinions?


----------



## Deskjob

*Tamor Hunter*

Holy Mother of *****!!!

Level1 = 12hp+con, Track, Weapon Focus, Wis AC bonus, High BAB, 2High Save, More points for less class skills, no buying armor needed, and Lv2 Reach w/ shield...

...Ranger be damned!!!  We got a winner!!!
(Ahem, on a more somber note... I like it...)


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> Co-DM...is that like a 3-star general? Thanks for the promotion. I am only intending to be a secondary arbitrator/advisor, nothing more though.
> 
> I have attached the Tamor Hunter as it stands now in a neat format. I still feel that the class is unbalanced, but if you feel that it's not an issue, than it's not - this is your game after all.
> 
> Some points to consider about the class:
> 
> I think there are too many bonus feats that were given at first level (he has 5!). There is no reason to give him so many. The ranger only had 3 abilities at this level. I think weapon focus & skill focus (intimidate) are redunctant extras that he can pay from his normal 1st level feats.
> 
> Also, I noticed that intimidation is something built into the class, even though it's not in the ranger's class skill list. I added intimidation at the cost of: ride, swim (it's a mountainous region that they come from) & handle animal (since mountainous people usually do not have much livestock to look after - unless they look after tamors ).
> 
> Is there a reason he needs the monk's AC bonus? The monk has it because of his kung-fu training - I doubt the T/H have that kind of skill. Why can just they not wear light armor instead?
> 
> Favourite enemy must, I repeat must stay: The tamor's themselves! The whole class is named after this creature, for heaven's sake!! It might be that it's not the greatest class ability, but that's no reason to discard it, especially for the *TAMOR HUNTERS*.
> 
> Let me know how you feel, and whether I should redraft the attachment.
> 
> On a different note: I am actually in the process of immigrating. I am leaving SA on the 4th of July. I am hoping to have a phone line up and running sometimes between 7th-10th July. Instead of having a hiccup in my playing session, my PC (that I have not yet thought of) should maybe only be introduced after I am settled in. This way we won't have our first AWOL before the game even started.





Those other feats came from limiting his weapon selection i think that's what I did yeah i'm sure (lose almost all martial weapons gain focus in a weapon I thought that was fair). I have not saved Tamor hunter yet think you could give them back swim(there are lakes its not rugged mountains kinda like the eastern US mountains were i live) but the rest is great 

To Walking DAD: Tamor hunter was just a sample of what you could do. You can prepose anything. It was the combat style that got me to base the new class off of ranger but nothing set in stone yet.


----------



## Myth and Legend

HolyMan if you are allowing such drastic changes to base classes why not allow other sources? I want to play a fighter/mage but going Wizard-Eldritch Knight is not the best choice. If you allow Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Complete Warrior, Unearthed Arcana etc. i could pick better classes.


----------



## Deskjob

*Blade Saint*

Wow...

Choose any weapon and get; Extra hits, extra attack, extra damage, extra AC, ignore-prerequisite feats, 3High Save, and Monk abilities.

Fight like a Fighter, evade like a Rogue, saves like a Monk, speed like a Barbarian, skills like a Ranger, dogma like a Paladin, and Abundant-Step like a wizard...

Haha, did I miss anybody?  Haha, I love ya wysiwyg!!! You're the freakin' man.


----------



## Deskjob

*How to design a Custom Class...  Deskjob style.*

Old friend taught me this.  

Step 1:  take an NPC class.  (not a PC class)
Step 2:  take a new concept.
Step 3:  add to the NPC class; feats, features, magic, etc.
Step 4:  make it complete
Step 5: make it under-powered
Step 6:  let your DM review it.  
Step 7:  let your DM increase its power until balanced.

(optional) Step 8: Tell your group that your class will pawn their class.  Because they are noobs.  Watch them commit seppuku in shame.


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> I thought of something to play. This is a variant of the monk class that uses one weapon (and one weapon only) to specialize in, instead of unarmed strikes. He loses all of his weapon proficiencies besides for one (of his choice). He gains light armor instead (that can be used in conjunction with AC bonuses). There are a few changes. see the attachment.
> 
> I have already included our +2 skill points to the class skills. Otherwise minor wordings have been changed, usually the words "unarmed strike" have been replaced by just plain "strike".
> 
> Feedback?




Going over Blade Saint I have a ton of comments but maybe this will help alittle more... Remember when you are doing this you have to taylor the class but still leave it open to progress in different directions someone should be able to take your class and taylor it to what they would like to play in that same style.. Why wouldn't a trained swordsman use med armor or a shield? switching the alignment to Any>? Someone who strives for perfection in a field/art can't be CN,CG, lawful is the means to follow a code or way of life not just the laws in general a LE charcter warps laws to suit them and only follows them when he must(and he must follow the way of the blade saint or not become one with his chosen weapon) whta else?? skills why does a weapon master have move silently?/ thats used to sneak away fom combat and to this class combat is the only way to aspire

I LOVE!LOVE! FLURRY OF STRIKES- (+20XP) great concept moving his blade so fast they can't defend themselves, react to the BS and this brings up my last point--- The Man and The Weapon this concept is a good one and you should have it figured out that at lvl 20 somehow they are one but the man without the weapon is what still gets AC bonus, special abilities?? I would say every ability is based around his weapon and without it in his hands he is defenseless and normal i.e. stilll mind a wizard starts to cast an enchantment on the BS he looks to his sword for support gaining confiedence that if this weapon gets in range that wizard is dead hence the sword gives th +2 bonus if its on the floor in another room why would he have a +2 bonus monks train to perfect themselves it s why so much "body" features:

I'm rambling but I have always loved the Kensai type characters lets work on this from the needs weapon perspective a little see what we come up with?

Little help everybody-- thanks ahead of time.


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> HolyMan if you are allowing such drastic changes to base classes why not allow other sources? I want to play a fighter/mage but going Wizard-Eldritch Knight is not the best choice. If you allow Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Complete Warrior, Unearthed Arcana etc. i could pick better classes.




Not using the books completely post the class you want for review but try to limit the books i would need to study on the class/feats/abilities

As you my notice i did allow the variant Battle Sorcerer


----------



## HolyMan

Deskjob said:


> Wow...
> 
> Choose any weapon and get; Extra hits, extra attack, extra damage, extra AC, ignore-prerequisite feats, 3High Save, and Monk abilities.
> 
> Fight like a Fighter, evade like a Rogue, saves like a Monk, speed like a Barbarian, skills like a Ranger, dogma like a Paladin, and Abundant-Step like a wizard...
> 
> Haha, did I miss anybody? Haha, I love ya wysiwyg!!! You're the freakin' man.




You gave it alot of PROS no CONS???


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Still haven't gotten a good name for the class, but here's what I've got so far:
> (Still no name for it yet)[Base Class Monk]
> Swapping Concentration for Bluff, Knowledge: Arcana for Intimidate, Knowledge: Religion for diplomacy
> 
> Swapping Still Mind for another 2/2 feat (I'd just say a feat... but still mind really is weak, but since this class isn't based too much around mystical training, resistance to enchantments didn't make much sense)
> 
> Swapping Diamond Soul for a Bonus feat (Again, spell resistance doesn't make a ton of sense for a mundane combatant)
> 
> Swapping Empty Body for a bonus feat (Becoming ethereal... again... doesn't fit a showfighter without mystical training)
> 
> Swapping Ki Strike: Lawful for a bonus feat (This class has no alignment leaning, really.)
> 
> One thing I was hoping to change to suit better, was to key this classes AC bonus on Charisma instead of Wisdom(and hopefully stunning fist uses too), the reasoning being that this is more of a 'streetwise' character than one who has learned higher wisdom and such.
> 
> Trade Proficiency with Shuriken to proficency with Shortbows(Bows would likely be more useful(than crossbows) for hunting any sort of creature that may steal the families chickens or whatnot, and most farmer's don't see shurikens that much...)
> 
> Trade Proficiency with Siangham and nun-chucks for profiency with a great axe (Farmer boy cutting up wood for the family)
> 
> Trade proficiency with heavy crossbow and sai for Spiked Chain proficiency(Learned due to it's rarity making it more impressive to wield effectively).
> 
> I suppose this sounds like a lot of changes, but I tried to keep it more towards a more mundane(magicwise) theme and such.
> 
> Opinions?




Name for the class can't help you I'm drawing a blank sorry. I'm glad everyone is using the monk as a base class makes it so much easier when you go over the same abilities   This is D&D you can explain anything away when your the DM just watch- A babies cry could be heard out in the other room, and the woman sitting in it sighed and started to rise. Suddenly the crying stopped and the old farmwife smiled and settled back down in her chair. "Cried himself back to sleep." she says slowly drifting off herself. In the babies room the Whillorn pixies take to the air again, Skultle returns from the other room a huge smile going from one huge ear to the other. He floats up to the group hovering above the babies crib, a little sleeping dust trailing from him still.  "Outs!, Outs! Mes' made her outs!" he cries. "Shh!," "Shh!," Comes from some of the others, as the look down at the baby. Skultle looks at the little human baby as it stares back up at the pixies flying over him.  "This the one?, the one?"  he asks skeptical. Just then the room begins to glow the shining coming from the air itself as to drive back the darkness from the beautiful Pixie Queen that flys to join the others.  "Yes, Skultle he is the one. The one who will oneday save us and his own race. We must help protect him he has a long hard road ahead."  "But he cants walk!, cants walk!,"  Skultle answers. The Pixie Queen just smiles, "Come, Skultle come everyone we have alot to do this night." The magic that was worked that night was said to be the greatest in the history of the pixie world, they had set out to make a champion of two peoples and stop an acient evil soon to awake.

Sorry guys been writing for the first IC post and getting carried away the point is anything can be explianed in D&D. So far your swaps are o.k. but try to make more generic like instead of spiked chain just say the get an exotic weapon feat remember someone else wants to play this class the might not want to be limited to one weapon. Great axe hmmm ok was going to say battle axe but you chop would with two hands so ok. Charisma is a better base for performing in the circle using intimidate, and gaing prestige and fame as a prize fighter so ok again. lawful did u see my post on alignment to wysiwyg if you follow a cod/disipline then lawful is the way you make this character then choose a chaotic alignment and you may have a conflict-- like with the rules for prize fighting.


----------



## shorty

*review my character please*

Name: Linky
User: josh
Class: Fighter
Level: 1
Race: Human
Alignment: CN
Deity: Kord
Size: 6ft
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Weight: 120
Eye: Light Blue
Hair: Brown
Skin: White

Stats:
Str: 16 (3)
Dex: 14 (2)
Con: 16 (3)
Int: 13 (1)
Wis: 13 (1)
Cha: 11 (0)

HP: 16
AC: 20

Initiative: (2) 

Saving Throws:
Fortitude: (5)
Reflex: (2)
Will: (2)

Base Attack Bonus: (1)

Grapple: (4)

Skills:
Climb (4)
Concentration (4)
Craft - Sword (2)
Gather Information (3)
Handle Animal (1)
Intimidate (1)
Jump (4)
Listen (2)
Ride (3)
Search (4)
Spot (2)
Swim (4)

Feats:
Toughness +3 HP
Power Attack
Clev
Investigator +2/+2 Gather Information/Search

Languages:
Common 
Elvin
Gnomish

Items:
Back Pack
Bed roll
50 ft. rope
Water skin
4 day trail ration
x2 torch
x1 cure light potion

Armor:
Brest Plate, Medium armor, (5) AC (3) Dex

Shield:
Large Steel Shield (2) AC

Weapon:
Long Sword (4) 1D8 19-20/x2

Money
gp: 150


----------



## wysiwyg

Right, time for feedback. 
What I basically did was create a new type of monk who does not specialize in hand-to-hand combat but rather in one specific weapon instead. I cut and pasted the monk, and edited text relating to unarmed combat. I did have the kensai concept in mind, but I didn't want to call him a kensai because of the oriental image. I have a kind of Achilles (aka Brad Pitt) from the Troy movie in mind. 
Now let’s start with the give and takes, i.e. the changes between my "kensai" and the monk:

*Alignment:* Should be lawful - I agree. I think it was a typo. I think...

*Weapons*: Lose all but one weapon of the PC's choice. Gain the choice for the weapon to be any weapon however.

*Armor*: Gain light armor and shields (btw, shields should be in). In light of the restrictions of weapons, I decided to allow him to be proficient in armor instead. The reason I did not give him medium and heavy armor is due to the fact that he is a very mobile-tactile combatant who cannot be hindered by armor (just like the monk). Again, this is compromise because of his lack of weapon selection.

*Skills*: Knowledge (arcana/religion) swapped to Knowledge (local/history). The arcana/religion I feel is based on the oriental monk. I don't know why TSR decided that you can have elvish monks and they have to be modelled after the Japanese. As far as game balance is concerned, nothing is affected. As far as image, a lot is eliminated. 

*Abilties*: 
Flurry of strikes replaces flurry of blows (change in name only)
Improved Strike replaces Unarmed damage. A weapon already has its own damage dice and doesn't really change. Whereas the monk's damage does. I had two options: (a) Make the damage of the weapon change to be the same as the monk's current unarmed strike, or (b) keep the weapon damage dice the same but increase the damage dealt as the PC progresses. Option (b) made more sense to me. So I gave him a much lower damage bonus (a 20th level monk gets 2d10 for his strikes, whereas my class only has +5 for my option. But to compensate, I gave him pluses to his attack roll. If anyone prefers, I could always just go back to option (a) instead.

Now, to respond to all the queries:


Deskjob said:


> _Wow...Choose any weapon and get; Extra hits, extra attack, extra damage, extra AC, ignore-prerequisite feats, 3High Save, and Monk abilities._
> 
> _Fight like a Fighter, evade like a Rogue, saves like a Monk, speed like a Barbarian, skills like a Ranger, dogma like a Paladin, and Abundant-Step like a wizard..._
> 
> _Haha, did I miss anybody? Haha, I love ya wysiwyg!!! You're the freakin' man._




I almost all of the above is really muted if you compare him to a monk
_Extra hits -_ There are no extra hits, 
_extra attack -_ no extra attacks, 
_extra damage -_ no extra damage (in fact quite the opposite is true), 
_extra AC -_ that's true (compromise for his lack of weapon choices)
_ignore prerequisite feats, 3High Save, and Monk abilities -_ Exactly because they are all monk abilities, and he is a variant monk.
_Fight like a Fighter, evade like a Rogue, saves like a Monk, speed like a Barbarian, skills like a Ranger, dogma like a Paladin, and Abundant-Step like a wizard... -_ Again, you could say the same for a normal monk...

(Q) Why wouldn't a trained swordsman use med armor or a shield? 
(A) A trained swordsman would. One who needs to be more mobile in combat would not. BTW, I could just take out the monk’s AC bonus and allow him to wear armor instead (both medium and heavy).

(Q) Why does a weapon master have move silently? That’s used to sneak away from combat, and to this class combat is the only way to aspire.
(A) I have never seen a rogue using Move silently to run away from combat. You need hide in plain sight for that. This skill is mostly used to get a good position of your enemy for a first strike. We could tailor the skills to be different than the monk (the Kensai class in Complete Warrior come to mind). I just wanted to do as few changes as possible. How about the following skills instead: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Jump (Str), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history/local/geography) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

(Q) The Man and The Weapon this concept is a good one and you should have it figured out that at level 20 somehow they are one; but the man without the weapon is what: still gets AC bonus, special abilities? I would say every ability is based around his weapon and without it in his hands he is defenceless and normal i.e. still mind a wizard starts to cast an enchantment on the BS he looks to his sword for support gaining confidence that if this weapon gets in range that wizard is dead hence the sword gives the +2 bonus if it’s on the floor in another room why would he have a +2 bonus monks train to perfect themselves it’s why so much "body" features:
(A) I hear it. The downside to what you are saying is that he is nothing without his weapon. A lot of the class abilities are not related to the weapon but rather to the way the character perfected himself (without it). Can he no longer ride a horse as well, or tumble or spot? Is his BAB/saves/HP any different? Of course not. He does not sleep and shower with his sword. He’s desire is to become the most competent warrior with his type of weapon (just as the monk is the ultimate unarmed combatant). There is no reason to penalize him. To so drastically limits the class; how would you compensate for it?




More feedback please...

BTW, speaking about bonus XP. I would like to give XP penalties for *bed spelin*! Your spelling make my eyes water. Please, for the love of everything that’s holy, please, please, please x200, use a spelling checker.

Now let e go over all the other posts, one by misspelled one...


----------



## Deskjob

*Blade Saint*

Yeah, your right.  Monks are just cool like that.  Why not a variant monk too right?  Makes sense.

Last thing though.  Why the improving attack and damage every 5 levels?  Can't you just enchant your weapon like the rest of us?  Monks can't enchant their fists so they get a damage bonus, right?  Or were we hoping for both; for a +10/+10/+Ki at lv20?

"Wow, you just crit...  So,..  I think he exploded?...  into outer space."


----------



## Walking Dad

wysiwyg said:


> Co-DM...is that like a 3-star general? Thanks for the promotion. I am only intending to be a secondary arbitrator/advisor, nothing more though.
> 
> I have attached the Tamor Hunter as it stands now in a neat format. I still feel that the class is unbalanced, but if you feel that it's not an issue, than it's not - this is your game after all.
> 
> Some points to consider about the class:
> 
> I think there are too many bonus feats that were given at first level (he has 5!). There is no reason to give him so many. The ranger only had 3 abilities at this level. I think weapon focus & skill focus (intimidate) are redunctant extras that he can pay from his normal 1st level feats.
> 
> Also, I noticed that intimidation is something built into the class, even though it's not in the ranger's class skill list. I added intimidation at the cost of: ride, swim (it's a mountainous region that they come from) & handle animal (since mountainous people usually do not have much livestock to look after - unless they look after tamors ).
> 
> Is there a reason he needs the monk's AC bonus? The monk has it because of his kung-fu training - I doubt the T/H have that kind of skill. Why can just they not wear light armor instead?
> 
> Favourite enemy must, I repeat must stay: The tamor's themselves! The whole class is named after this creature, for heaven's sake!! It might be that it's not the greatest class ability, but that's no reason to discard it, especially for the *TAMOR HUNTERS*.
> 
> Let me know how you feel, and whether I should redraft the attachment.
> 
> On a different note: I am actually in the process of immigrating. I am leaving SA on the 4th of July. I am hoping to have a phone line up and running sometimes between 7th-10th July. Instead of having a hiccup in my playing session, my PC (that I have not yet thought of) should maybe only be introduced after I am settled in. This way we won't have our first AWOL before the game even started.




Ok, I'm perhaps out. My initial concept was a 3300-Spartan like character. Not an apache with some of my most disliked abilities (I don't like to specific (not weak!) abilities: favored enemy, terrain, ... and extra characters class features (familiar, companion) ... heck, most is in the ranger class.)

Last straw: monk as base. Only 'monk weapons' spear, shield, slashing shortsword (stats like cutlass), unarmed. All weapons used by a monk do monk unarmed damage (only type (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing...) changes). AC feature allows for med load and shields, but looses static bonus for monk levels. Close to the base class enough?


----------



## wysiwyg

Walking Dad said:


> Last straw: monk as base. Only 'monk weapons' spear, shield, slashing shortsword (stats like cutlass), unarmed. All weapons used by a monk do monk unarmed damage (only type (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing...) changes). AC feature allows for med load and shields, but looses static bonus for monk levels. Close to the base class enough?





Hi WD. Why not look at my monk variant. It could very easily serve here. Just use his weapon of choice as the longspear. It's almost identical to what you have asked for.

(Can you post the stats for the cutlass)


----------



## wysiwyg

Deskjob said:


> Yeah, your right. Monks are just cool like that. Why not a variant monk too right? Makes sense.
> 
> Last thing though. Why the improving attack and damage every 5 levels? Can't you just enchant your weapon like the rest of us? Monks can't enchant their fists so they get a damage bonus, right? Or were we hoping for both; for a +10/+10/+Ki at lv20?
> 
> "Wow, you just crit... So,.. I think he exploded?... into outer space."




This is what I wrote to answer this question in my previous post:

*Abilties*: 
Flurry of strikes replaces flurry of blows (change in name only)
Improved Strike replaces Unarmed damage. A weapon already has its own damage dice and doesn't really change. Whereas the monk's damage does. I had two options: (a) Make the damage of the weapon change to be the same as the monk's current unarmed strike, or (b) keep the weapon damage dice the same but increase the damage dealt as the PC progresses. Option (b) made more sense to me. So I gave him a much lower damage bonus (a 20th level monk gets 2d10 for his strikes, whereas my class only has +5 for my option. But to compensate, I gave him pluses to his attack roll. If anyone prefers, I could always just go back to option (a) instead.

The standard monk is really like my monk (option a) but with unarmed strike as the chosen weapon. My variant-monk just uses a different weapon (and option b). I could always just switch back to option (a), but with a weapon that does incremental damage dice as levels are added. Then he'd be just the same. 

I just had a thought...a cunning thought that might even help WD and Theroc (and me). We cannot just give up abilities because the monk has so many and receive feats instead. What we might be able to do, is be able to choose what benefit we get for losing an ability (and still be in game balance mode). This can be applicable to all classes maybe. How about the following for trading an ability (or even an ability improvement):

Choose one:
a) +1 to hit (with one weapon)
b) +1 to damage (with one weapon)
c) +1 to parry bonus (effects AC & Touch but not Flat Footed)
d) Reduce ACP by 1
e) +1 to one save
f) +3 skill points
g) +2 HP
h) One extra spell that can be cast at highest level
i) +1 caster level for determining save DCs
h) proficiency in light armor (if you have none), or medium (if you already have light), or heavy (if you already have medium)
j) Increase your speed by 10.
?) Anything else? Please note that most of the above are weaker than feats.

Class abilities that improve can be exchanged the second (and third and so on) time as well. For example:
Rogues can exchange the +1d6 sneak attack and gain one of the above. He can do the same again when he gets the next +1d6 sneak attack.
The monk can do the same when his unarmed strike damage increases, or his ac bonus, or give up any of his other abilities.

You can choose the same option more than once (even for the same weapon, AC improvement). They will be cumulative.

This will be available to all classes of course. So a ranger, paladin, rogue could also swap one of their class abilities and gain one of the bonuses above every time they swap one of their abilities.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hmm it seems that several of the posters in this thread have registered June 09... It's either appealing to new players or someone has registered more than one account and is posting with them (which would be weird)


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> To ghostcat:
> just take and mark the +5 with a * and add this under your skills * +3 bonus from familiar-- there is a distance limit to that right hey help me out co-DM earn that caffine lol




Master and Familiar must be within 1 mile of each other.


----------



## Deskjob

*Blade Saint*



wysiwyg said:


> Option (b) made more sense to me. So I gave him a much lower damage bonus (a 20th level monk gets 2d10 for his strikes, whereas my class only has +5 for my option. But to compensate, I gave him pluses to his attack roll.




I got ya.  Just don't compensate by giving him +5 to his attack rolls.  Compensation not needed.  
Just enchant your sword to +5.  Then he gets +5/+10.  His damage is now similar to the monks 2d10 (both average 10 damage).  And, you walk away with a nice +5 to attack rolls that a monk doesn't usually get from any other feature.

Other than that...  I'd say you just made yourself a very badass class!  I can't wait to see it in action.  Kapow!  ...dead.


----------



## Deskjob

*to Walking Dad*

Dude, I love your monk idea.  Take Monk.  Change his weapon set.  And BANG!  ...you got yourself one-awesome-Spartan.

You should totally switch his high Will saves for High BAB progression & switch his high Reflex saves for Shield-Spear use.   And, I mean, hey...  What Spartan really needs "Tongue of sun/moon" anyways, right?  Just let your spear do the talkin'.

"See, I brought more soldiers than you did." -Leonidas


----------



## Deskjob

*Custom Commoner*

Edit: ooo, just found this custom class lying around.  will attach soon.

View attachment Custom Commoner.pdf


----------



## wysiwyg

Walking Dad said:


> Last straw: monk as base. Only 'monk weapons' spear, shield, slashing shortsword (stats like cutlass), unarmed. All weapons used by a monk do monk unarmed damage (only type (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing...) changes). AC feature allows for med load and shields, but looses static bonus for monk levels. Close to the base class enough?




I'm OK if you want to apply the monk's damage to a weapon. However I think you should choose but one weapon to apply this damage to as the monk only has Unarmed strike as special damage. You can use the other weapons on your list as normal (ie without any adjustments). Also, you should no longer have unarmed strike as special monk damage.

Also, maybe choose a weapon that normally deals 1d6 (the cutlass or the short spear is fine). It would be hard to explain why a master of this weapon does less damage with it than a normal warrior otherwise (for the first few levels). 

I don't understand what you mean by "AC feature allows for med load and shields, but looses static bonus for monk levels." Can you please explain (via example).

Otherwise, I think it's perfectly balanced. What do you think Holyman?

BTW, read my previous post and tell me what you think.


----------



## wysiwyg

Ouch! Spelling hurts! Ouch! (I hate being the red-penned teacher)

Name: Linky (Linky? What kind of name is Linky? Is he someone's dog?)
User: josh
Class: Fighter
Level: 1
Race: Human
Alignment: CN
Deity: Kord
Size: 6ft
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Weight: 120 (that's kg right? It's about 250lb for the Americans)
Eye: Light Blue
Hair: Brown
Skin: White

Stats:
Str: 16 (+3) (10 points)
Dex: 14 (+2) (6 points)
Con: 16 (+3) (10 points)
Int: 13 (+1) (5 points)
Wis: 13 (+1) (5 points)
Cha: 11 (+0) (3 points)
(too many development points. You have only 35. You created a PC with 39) 

HP: 16
AC: 19 (Touch: 12, Flat Footed: 17)

Initiative: +2

Saving Throws:
Fortitude: +5
Reflex: +2
Will: +1

Base Attack Bonus: +1
Grapple: +4

Skills:
Climb (4)
Concentration (4)
Craft - Sword (2)
Gather Information (3)
Handle Animal (1)
Intimidate (1)
Jump (4)
Listen (2)
Ride (3)
Search (4)
Spot (2)
Swim (4)
Can you show as the following example: Climb +6 [3 Ranks, Str +3, Misc +0]
You should have the following number of points at 1st level: 2(fighter) +1(human) + 1(int) +2(house rule) = 6x4 = 24 points
6 skill points to allocate thereafter.

Feats:
Toughness
Power Attack
Cleave
Investigator 

Languages:
Common 
Elvin
Gnomish (one too many. Your intelligence bonus is +1)

Items:
Back Pack
Bed roll
50 ft. rope
Water skin
4 day trail ration
x2 torch
x1 cure light potion (I doubt this will be affordable)

Armor & Shield:
Breast Plate (You don't have enough money for a breast plate - 200gp)
Large Steel Shield 

Weapons:
Long Sword +4 (1d8+3, 19-20/x2)

Money
gp: 150 (not any more) 


PS: Can you add something about his background & appearance.


----------



## HolyMan

*just in*

just got off work will be going over everythinbg and helping were I can I am so glad i 'm off tommorrow I will be ready to go wed!!


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> just got off work will be going over everythinbg and helping were I can I am so glad i 'm off tommorrow I will be ready to go wed!!






Did you get a chance to look over my proposal for my 'circle fighter' class?


----------



## HolyMan

*Repleying to post 188*

To wysiwyg:

I think your character is coming along fine. What I want to address is making the class more generic you said that you did not give it med/heavy armor "due to the fact that he is a more mobile-tactile combatant" so there are no blade saints running around with greatswords/power attack/and full plate? You mention Achillies and wanting to go that route so your character would be moblie quick lightly armored skills like dodge and mobility but what if someone want to make Ajax and become a blade Saint(maul)?? give it generics tehn change to the fighter type you want 

Question: Are we getting ahead of ourselves doing the changes up to lvl 20?? Why not pick a base class and make the first lvl swaps and then prepose swaps as we adventure/ lvl up. The adventure could explain some choices/changes better than explaining them all now.

Edit: forget bed spelin do to sausage fingers and lack of sleep sometimes I type with my nose as I nod off!
i try to go back and edit but then i ususlly take a nap.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Did you get a chance to look over my proposal for my 'circle fighter' class?




yes edited post on page 10? or 9?


----------



## HolyMan

Walking Dad said:


> Ok, I'm perhaps out. My initial concept was a 3300-Spartan like character. Not an apache with some of my most disliked abilities (I don't like to specific (not weak!) abilities: favored enemy, terrain, ... and extra characters class features (familiar, companion) ... heck, most is in the ranger class.)
> 
> Last straw: monk as base. Only 'monk weapons' spear, shield, slashing shortsword (stats like cutlass), unarmed. All weapons used by a monk do monk unarmed damage (only type (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing...) changes). AC feature allows for med load and shields, but looses static bonus for monk levels. Close to the base class enough?




AC feature you mean you would get the Wis bonus but lose the pluses to AC as you advance? which is really fair over fair what am I to do??


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> This is what I wrote to answer this question in my previous post:
> 
> *Abilties*:
> Flurry of strikes replaces flurry of blows (change in name only)
> Improved Strike replaces Unarmed damage. A weapon already has its own damage dice and doesn't really change. Whereas the monk's damage does. I had two options: (a) Make the damage of the weapon change to be the same as the monk's current unarmed strike, or (b) keep the weapon damage dice the same but increase the damage dealt as the PC progresses. Option (b) made more sense to me. So I gave him a much lower damage bonus (a 20th level monk gets 2d10 for his strikes, whereas my class only has +5 for my option. But to compensate, I gave him pluses to his attack roll. If anyone prefers, I could always just go back to option (a) instead.
> 
> The standard monk is really like my monk (option a) but with unarmed strike as the chosen weapon. My variant-monk just uses a different weapon (and option b). I could always just switch back to option (a), but with a weapon that does incremental damage dice as levels are added. Then he'd be just the same.
> 
> I just had a thought...a cunning thought that might even help WD and Theroc (and me). We cannot just give up abilities because the monk has so many and receive feats instead. What we might be able to do, is be able to choose what benefit we get for losing an ability (and still be in game balance mode). This can be applicable to all classes maybe. How about the following for trading an ability (or even an ability improvement):
> 
> Choose one:
> a) +1 to hit (with one weapon)
> b) +1 to damage (with one weapon)
> c) +1 to parry bonus (effects AC & Touch but not Flat Footed)
> d) Reduce ACP by 1
> e) +1 to one save
> f) +3 skill points
> g) +2 HP
> h) One extra spell that can be cast at highest level
> i) +1 caster level for determining save DCs
> h) proficiency in light armor (if you have none), or medium (if you already have light), or heavy (if you already have medium)
> j) Increase your speed by 10.
> ?) Anything else? Please note that most of the above are weaker than feats.
> 
> Class abilities that improve can be exchanged the second (and third and so on) time as well. For example:
> Rogues can exchange the +1d6 sneak attack and gain one of the above. He can do the same again when he gets the next +1d6 sneak attack.
> The monk can do the same when his unarmed strike damage increases, or his ac bonus, or give up any of his other abilities.
> 
> You can choose the same option more than once (even for the same weapon, AC improvement). They will be cumulative.
> 
> This will be available to all classes of course. So a ranger, paladin, rogue could also swap one of their class abilities and gain one of the bonuses above every time they swap one of their abilities.




I'm thinking that chart of swapping is very kool could even make it a little weaker if we needed to(worried about people taking a lvl of fighter for a free feat and a bunch of swaps). It would solve the problem of making full classes we just start at level one with swaps and when you go up you can swap features you don't like or don't fit with your character concept. Should we make it a house rule?  And why couldn't a Blade Saint's weapon damage go up as he advances level (everyone is forgetting were playing D&D) Someone who hones his skills and tactics would be able to inflict more damgage than say another class with the same weapon. Treat the damage if it's lower than the weapons normal damage as training only begun and not perfected. When the damage equals he has come to "learn" the weapon and when it excedes he has mastered it.


----------



## Theroc

Theroc said:


> Still haven't gotten a good name for the class, but here's what I've got so far:
> (Still no name for it yet)[Base Class Monk]
> Swapping Concentration for Bluff, Knowledge: Arcana for Intimidate, Knowledge: Religion for diplomacy
> 
> Swapping Still Mind for another 2/2 feat (I'd just say a feat... but still mind really is weak, but since this class isn't based too much around mystical training, resistance to enchantments didn't make much sense)
> 
> Swapping Diamond Soul for a Bonus feat (Again, spell resistance doesn't make a ton of sense for a mundane combatant)
> 
> Swapping Empty Body for a bonus feat (Becoming ethereal... again... doesn't fit a showfighter without mystical training)[For the bonus feats, perhaps the fighter list+ Proficiency-oriented feats in case a players want either more armored or different weapon proficiencies...]
> 
> Swapping Ki Strike: Lawful for a bonus feat (This class has no alignment leaning, really.)
> 
> One thing I was hoping to change to suit better, was to key this classes AC bonus on Charisma instead of Wisdom(and hopefully stunning fist uses too), the reasoning being that this is more of a 'streetwise' character than one who has learned higher wisdom and such.
> 
> Trade Proficiency with Shuriken to proficency with Shortbows(Bows would likely be more useful(than crossbows) for hunting any sort of creature that may steal the families chickens or whatnot, and most farmer's don't see shurikens that much...)
> 
> Trade Proficiency with Siangham and nun-chucks for profiency with a great axe (Farmer boy cutting up wood for the family)
> 
> Trade proficiency with heavy crossbow and sai for a bonus exotic weapon proficiency(Learned due to it's rarity making it more impressive to wield effectively).
> 
> I suppose this sounds like a lot of changes, but I tried to keep it more towards a more mundane(magicwise) theme and such.
> 
> Opinions?




Tweaked a thing or two, how's this?


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Tweaked a thing or two, how's this?




It looks the same?


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> It looks the same?






roflmao, that's kinda funny, since I just changed the things you mentioned, and even took it a step forward... rather than just saying "Bonus feat" I put an idea for the specifics of the Bonus feat, as well as switching Spiked chain proficiency in for "an exotic weapon proficiency"


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Hmm it seems that several of the posters in this thread have registered June 09... It's either appealing to new players or someone has registered more than one account and is posting with them (which would be weird)




actually I'm going around looking for new people who want to play I found shorty cooling his heels in the Red Dragon Inn.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> roflmao, that's kinda funny, since I just changed the things you mentioned, and even took it a step forward... rather than just saying "Bonus feat" I put an idea for the specifics of the Bonus feat, as well as switching Spiked chain proficiency in for "an exotic weapon proficiency"




missed those 6 words next time color the changes  thanks


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> Master and Familiar must be within 1 mile of each other.




ty ghostcat maybe should put into character what you have when familiar is within one mile and that way we will no what is lost without looking it up eah time


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> Ouch! Spelling hurts! Ouch! (I hate being the red-penned teacher)
> 
> Name: Linky (Linky? What kind of name is Linky? Is he someone's dog?)
> User: josh
> Class: Fighter
> Level: 1
> Race: Human
> Alignment: CN
> Deity: Kord
> Size: 6ft
> Age: 24
> Gender: Male
> Weight: 120 (that's kg right? It's about 250lb for the Americans)
> Eye: Light Blue
> Hair: Brown
> Skin: White
> 
> Stats:
> Str: 16 (+3) (10 points)
> Dex: 14 (+2) (6 points)
> Con: 16 (+3) (10 points)
> Int: 13 (+1) (5 points)
> Wis: 13 (+1) (5 points)
> Cha: 11 (+0) (3 points)
> (too many development points. You have only 35. You created a PC with 39)
> 
> HP: 16
> AC: 19 (Touch: 12, Flat Footed: 17)
> 
> Initiative: +2
> 
> Saving Throws:
> Fortitude: +5
> Reflex: +2
> Will: +1
> 
> Base Attack Bonus: +1
> Grapple: +4
> 
> Skills:
> Climb (4)
> Concentration (4)
> Craft - Sword (2)
> Gather Information (3)
> Handle Animal (1)
> Intimidate (1)
> Jump (4)
> Listen (2)
> Ride (3)
> Search (4)
> Spot (2)
> Swim (4)
> Can you show as the following example: Climb +6 [3 Ranks, Str +3, Misc +0]
> You should have the following number of points at 1st level: 2(fighter) +1(human) + 1(int) +2(house rule) = 6x4 = 24 points
> 6 skill points to allocate thereafter.
> 
> Feats:
> Toughness
> Power Attack
> Cleave
> Investigator
> 
> Languages:
> Common
> Elvin
> Gnomish (one too many. Your intelligence bonus is +1)
> 
> Items:
> Back Pack
> Bed roll
> 50 ft. rope
> Water skin
> 4 day trail ration
> x2 torch
> x1 cure light potion (I doubt this will be affordable)
> 
> Armor & Shield:
> Breast Plate (You don't have enough money for a breast plate - 200gp)
> Large Steel Shield
> 
> Weapons:
> Long Sword +4 (1d8+3, 19-20/x2)
> 
> Money
> gp: 150 (not any more)
> 
> 
> PS: Can you add something about his background & appearance.




thank you and don t pick on a his name I'm sure there is a great explanation for it.


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> I'm thinking that chart of swapping is very kool could even make it a little weaker if we needed to (worried about people taking a lvl of fighter for a free feat and a bunch of swaps). It would solve the problem of making full classes we just start at level one with swaps and when you go up you can swap features you don't like or don't fit with your character concept. Should we make it a house rule? And why couldn't a Blade Saint's weapon damage go up as he advances level (everyone is forgetting were playing D&D) Someone who hones his skills and tactics would be able to inflict more damgage than say another class with the same weapon. Treat the damage if it's lower than the weapons normal damage as training only begun and not perfected. When the damage equals he has come to "learn" the weapon and when it excedes he has mastered it.




Exactly what I had in mind. Realistically, no one really knows where his career path will truly take him. A character can decide level by level where he wants his skills to improve without the need to chart out the next 20 levels before hand.

I think we should definitely make it a house rule. With this WD, Theroc and I would go back and customize the monk/ranger (whatever) the way we would want to. Once we go through the list of abilities and check if they won't kill game balance, anyone will be able to customize which ever class they choose.

We should start working on my proposed list of swaps. We need to also add in other swap options, for example:
1) Lose spells: for every 2 spells slots, gain one of the abilities. Can only be done by minor spell casters (ranger, paladin, assassin, etc). Not by wizards, bards, clerics, druids, etc.
2) Add some more arcane/divine abilities to the list (more spells, turning abilities/modifiers, etc). It will really be quite a big list. I suggest compiling it as 4 sub-lists: (a) Combat modifiers (b) Arcane modifiers (c) Divine modifiers (d) General modifiers.

Some guidelines that must be adhered to: 

*Alignment*
A character that chooses a class that has an alignment requirement as a base class, cannot ignore the requirement. (Paladins, druids, monks, assassins, etc).

*Monk*
The monk's unarmed damage should not apply to more than one weapon. The player must choose at 1st level what weapon he will master and replace it with his unarmed damage. If the monk’s class is chosen, and the PC decides to wear armor, he would also have to swap out any monk abilities that do not work with armor (AC bonus, speed, etc).


----------



## Theroc

I'm not trying to be offensive at all here, but I'm starting to get baffled by all the mutating.

So... I'll let Wys and Holyman figure out the system, then try to figure it out again and see if I'll be able to work my original concept into it, or if a new idea strikes me.


----------



## HolyMan

*Ok heres the new swap rules:*

To start choice a class: non PhB must be approved

Then you may swap class features and abilities for either:
1) An approved feat (something that fits the concept )
2) Choose one:
a) switch one class skill for a cross-class skill
b) +1 to damage (with one weapon)
c) +1 to parry bonus (effects AC & Touch but not Flat Footed)
d) Reduce ACP by 1
e) +1 to one save
f) +1 skill rank in a class or cross-class skill
g) +1 HP
h) One extra spell that can be cast at highest level
i) +1 caster level for determining save DCs
h) present something of your own

I think we can skip worrying about giving up spell slots and other things for the moment. Just use the above list and when you send proposals please list what it is your dropping and what you want to replace it (i.e. fighter(woodsman) lose heavy armor for (h) add hide&move silently as class skills)

another note: IC thread will be up in less than 24 hours you may join in character there if you have the following minimum posted in the rogue gallery:

Name
Gender
Age
Height
Weight
Hair color
Eye color
Apperance (generlized eguipment or clothes only -left gear under a tree -along with facial/body type features)

Thats all you need to roleplay for the first couple days anyway.


----------



## wysiwyg

Excellent Holyman. Let me go first as an illustration (but for real also).

My PC will be an Achilles type character (see Troy movie for reference). He has the monk's base class. At first level the monk has the following class abilities:

1) Bonus feat
2) Unarmed strike
3) Flurry of blows 
4) AC bonus

This is what my PC swaps/chooses
1) *Bonus Feat *- Choose shield profieciency
2) *Unarmed strike *will be swapped for the gladius (exactly the same as a scimitar, but looks like a very sharp, double edged short sword). The damage dealt will be 1d6 (until 4th level). 
3) *Flurry of blows *will now only function when using the gladius
4) *AC bonus *is replaced with light armor proficiency.

And that's it.

BTW, point f) on your list - 1 skill rank in a class or cross-class skill. Maybe we should change it to +2 in a class skill or +1 cross-class skill.


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg said:


> Excellent Holyman. Let me go first as an illustration (but for real also).
> 
> My PC will be an Achilles type character (see Troy movie for reference). He has the monk's base class. At first level the monk has the following class abilities:
> 
> 1) Bonus feat
> 2) Unarmed strike
> 3) Flurry of blows
> 4) AC bonus
> 
> This is what my PC swaps/chooses
> 1) *Bonus Feat *- Choose shield profieciency
> 2) *Unarmed strike *will be swapped for the gladius (exactly the same as a scimitar, but looks like a very sharp, double edged short sword). The damage dealt will be 1d6 (until 4th level).
> 3) *Flurry of blows *will now only function when using the gladius
> 4) *AC bonus *is replaced with light armor proficiency.
> 
> And that's it.
> 
> BTW, point f) on your list - 1 skill rank in a class or cross-class skill. Maybe we should change it to +2 in a class skill or +1 cross-class skill.




Are you keeping the monk weapons?? or changing to suit: dagger,javelin, shortbow or others?

think on it either way I say approved 

on point (f) Think I would rather give out bonus ranks as they we could list it under skills as bonus ranks recieved (saves on math and paper work) and probably only used once in awhile easy way to get a rank in a trained only skill


----------



## shorty

You know you could be a little nicer about what you say, it's not always nice to just rag on some one for trying to get a character ready, and also i was trying to set thing's up right when i made my character.  I was looking at two character sheet's so thing's got a little messed up, but i don't always need to put a description of my character and a back ground.  I am still in the editing stage, so i can fix him up.  But if your just going to rag on me and call my character a dog because of his name then your just being rude.


----------



## HolyMan

*To Shorty*

wysiwyg i'm sure wasn't trung to be rude the things he posted in red were to show you where things needed changing. lets get your character finished for tomorrow. I have attached a notepad file save it then you can use it for here and for in LEW. Just backspace out all the XXXX's and fill in the blanks. Once you have that done just do the basics see above post about what you need to get into game. And then I'll help you with stats.

Wait wont let me do that becaus eI already have once before let me find a link.

HERE IT IS:  http://www.enworld.org/forum/4838082-post81.html


----------



## Walking Dad

wysiwyg said:


> I'm OK if you want to apply the monk's damage to a weapon. However I think you should choose but one weapon to apply this damage to as the monk only has Unarmed strike as special damage. You can use the other weapons on your list as normal (ie without any adjustments). Also, you should no longer have unarmed strike as special monk damage.
> 
> Also, maybe choose a weapon that normally deals 1d6 (the cutlass or the short spear is fine). It would be hard to explain why a master of this weapon does less damage with it than a normal warrior otherwise (for the first few levels).
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by "AC feature allows for med load and shields, but looses static bonus for monk levels." Can you please explain (via example).
> 
> Otherwise, I think it's perfectly balanced. What do you think Holyman?
> 
> BTW, read my previous post and tell me what you think.






HolyMan said:


> AC feature you mean you would get the Wis bonus but lose the pluses to AC as you advance? which is really fair over fair what am I to do??




As HolyMan said 

About choosing the special damage weapon: The longspear would give reach, so this would maybe require an extra feat.

but for the other weapons, there is a 3.5 feat in the player's handbook 2, Versatile Strike, that let's you change your unarmed damage type to slashing or piercing at will. Say he the class gives up to abilities for the equivalent of 2 feats?


----------



## wysiwyg

*Shorty*
Let me give a formal appology. I didn't mean to be offensive in any way. I'm sorry it came across like that. You can take that rolled newspaper and spank me - woof.

*Holyman*
I am going to change the weapons to Greek weapons (you know, short sword, dagger, hand axe, spear (long & short), sling, shortbow, quarterstaff, any more?). 
I just found out about the downside of the monk - starting money = 12.5 gp. I cannot even afford a backpack or a money pouch (which is OK caus I've only got 7sp left after buying my meager items). My few coins are hidden in my blanket. 
I've changed the character, so please read. 
After reading my background, are there any standard items the army gives (weapons/armor/backpack/rations/etc) that I can include in my inventory? What do they pay soldiers of our rank? I would recommend maybe 3sp/day/level. That's about 9gp per month for 1st level characters.

*Walking Dad*
Please read Holyman's post regarding what you can swap and gain. And create a monk/ranger PC based on that. I think Holyman would agree as it's his idea in the first place.


----------



## wysiwyg

*Walking Dad*

Why not make a ranger subtype (like you originally did) and apply Holyman's options. You have 3 abilities that you could exchange for any of the following:

1) An approved feat (something that fits the concept )
2) Choose one:
a) switch one class skill for a cross-class skill
b) +1 to damage (with one weapon)
c) +1 to parry bonus (effects AC & Touch but not Flat Footed)
d) Reduce ACP by 1
e) +1 to one save
f) +1 skill rank in a class or cross-class skill
g) +1 HP
h) One extra spell that can be cast at highest level
i) +1 caster level for determining save DCs

This gives you quite a bit of versatility. You can drop favorite enemy and wild empathy and gain +1 damage with spear, +1 AC (parry), and keep track (or replace it as well).


----------



## Walking Dad

I'm still hanging on the concept of no armor, but a shield...


----------



## wysiwyg

Walking Dad said:


> I'm still hanging on the concept of no armor, but a shield...




Using our system below, you can exchange your light armor proficiency and get a further +1 to your AC. If you trade your tracking ability as well, that's another +1 to your AC. So in total:

Exchange: light armor, tracking, wild empathy for +3 parry bonus.
Exchange: favorite enemy for +1 damage with long spear.

You already have a proficiency with a shield.
You can have an AC of: 10 + 2(shield) +3 (parry) + dex at first level.


----------



## HolyMan

Walking Dad said:


> As HolyMan said
> 
> About choosing the special damage weapon: The longspear would give reach, so this would maybe require an extra feat.
> 
> but for the other weapons, there is a 3.5 feat in the player's handbook 2, Versatile Strike, that let's you change your unarmed damage type to slashing or piercing at will. Say he the class gives up to abilities for the equivalent of 2 feats?




Is that suppose to say the class gives up two abilites for for the equivalent of 2 feats?

You could give up an ability to gain an ability (and we know the monk has plenty of those) I think you should somehow take the combat stlye: spear and shield concept at 2nd lvl monk you could give up the bonus feat,evasion, or fast movement. If you do give up an ability then at later lvls you would probably have to retake the early ability first (i.e. give up evasion at 2nd lvl you can't get improved evasionat 9th you just get evasion)


----------



## HolyMan

To wysiwyg: have checked over Athos and added him to the Roll Call

gave you +20xp for the background/journal very kool

the only things I see in the sheet are short sword damage should be (1d6+3) and spear melee should be added 

In the abilities section make note unarmed damaged changed from unarmed strike to short sword or did you not do that??


----------



## HolyMan

To shorty:

It wouldn't let me repost the Form but... I started the character changed the name and all you need to do is fill in the blanks


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> To wysiwyg: have checked over Athos and added him to the Roll Call
> 
> gave you +20xp for the background/journal very kool
> 
> the only things I see in the sheet are short sword damage should be (1d6+3) and spear melee should be added
> 
> In the abilities section make note unarmed damaged changed from unarmed strike to short sword or did you not do that??




I think I did. Let me check.

BTW, maybe let WD choose his own feats for his Ranger's combat style (if he chooses the ranger route). It will make him happy, and won't disturb the holy game balance.


----------



## HolyMan

can you be quiet I don't think I'd like it so keep on keepin' on lol

I think the Combat Style ability I'm going to expand further different styles but that is for another day. I think WD knows what he wants, just trying to get us to understand has been the problem. I have an IC thread to get ready-- HolyMan haven' fun all day long


----------



## HolyMan

Posting to Myth and Legend: Think we can us your doublepost in the RG to post NPC info let me know if that's o.k. with you.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sure just let me know what to post and i'll edit it in.


----------



## HolyMan

thank you and did you change your mind about your base class/prestige haven't heard anything else about it? just wondering 

1hour 45 min till IC thread boy i better get ready.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Umm there are some classes, like Dragonslayer, Spellsword etc. I'm not sure i have to do more reading (currently am reading this article). To make my decision i'd need you to estimate at what level can we expect to finish the adventure? For now i'm thinking i will need the Arcane Strike feat from Complete Arcane, it allows one to use up a spell to augment the melee attack of his weapon.

Oh and I want to wait for the IC thread but i have to sleep


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Umm there are some classes, like Dragonslayer, Spellsword etc. I'm not sure i have to do more reading (currently am reading this article). To make my decision i'd need you to estimate at what level can we expect to finish the adventure? For now i'm thinking i will need the Arcane Strike feat from Complete Arcane, it allows one to use up a spell to augment the melee attack of his weapon.
> 
> Oh and I want to wait for the IC thread but i have to sleep




I know that feat and will allow it in, it is not so over balanced. This campaign will climax at lvl 15 and end around lvl 20. IC thread in 25 min am copy pasting /changing colors / checking grammar will read article after I have the IC up

Sleep?? don t know what that is


----------



## HolyMan

*July 1!!!*

And we have started:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258495-off-war-ic.html

Anyone who has been posted in the Roll Call section of the RG pull up a log and have fun. Everyone else can come join in as they are ready.


----------



## Walking Dad

Because of change in workload and related stuff I will b e forced to reduce my games on ENWorld. This will mostly affect my 3. 5 games.

As I have not posted in an IC thread here, it would be more painless than leaving an existing game. Sorry.


----------



## HolyMan

NP Walking Dad that's why I made this any open campaign when your work load gives you the time or a game ends we will still be here and you can join in there are 500+ people in the camp I'm sure one of them can be your character just havn't met him yet. and this way anyone who starts doesn't have to drop just get lost in the crowd aliitle while. Sorry you have more work by the way.Good Luck.


----------



## wysiwyg

Hi Holyman.

I purposely did not post anything in the game thread as I will be out of touch for about 7 days. I'd rather introduce my PC when I have settled and ready to play (for real) and not have him disappear.

Enjoy while I'm off packing.
Wysiwyg.


----------



## HolyMan

No problem we will be here and may still be in introduction mode. Good luck on the move talk to you next week.


----------



## wysiwyg

Just checking up on the thread.

Welcome Erwinfoxjj.

Nice background. I just did a quick scan of your character.
Please read our character creation rules - 

You should have 35 points for stats (not 28)
More skill points
and a bonus +2/+2 feat.

Enjoy.


----------



## Erwinfoxjj

Whats a +2/+2 feat. And sorry, I was going by the book.


----------



## Deskjob

*Unresponsive*

Wow, is it just me or does this website go down every 24hours.  I get a network timeout error everytime.  Cross my fingers and hope this post goes through.

Anyone having similar problems? Pm Deskjob to commiserate.


----------



## HolyMan

*Welcome Ewrinfoxjj*

(Jacob??)

A +2/+2 feat is one that gives you +2 to two different feats like agile, nimble fingers, and the like.

To Deskjob: Yep getting on here was about as much fun today as getting my teeth pulled.

character generation can be found here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-house-rules/258313-off-war-houserules.html


----------



## HolyMan

*To ML:*

Ruling on taking 20 on a Forgery skill check:

Taking 20 uses up resources (paper, ink, sealing wax, etc.) as needed. It will take 1 sheet of paper/1oz. of ink/.10lbs sealing wax per 10min spent at the craft. If these things are not available you may take a usage out of your Artisan's Tools(writing/drawing)see below. The time needed is the 20 minutes for simple documents, or 1d4x20 minutes for more complex or longer documents.

Artisan's Tools(writing/drawing): This is a long narrow script has dozens of little pockets. It holds chalks, charcoal sticks, nibs, sealing wax sticks, and all the other items you would need to produce a piece of art or a letter/proclamation.  Total uses 10: Cost 5gp Weight 5lb.


----------



## HolyMan

*Help with Hralfgar*

Hope this helps you out: corrections/comments are in red



		Code:
	

Name: Hralfgar
Class: Fighter
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Lawfull Good [COLOR=red]one l in Lawful[/COLOR]
Level: 1
Hit Points: 12 [COLOR=red]13 hp due to +3 CON[/COLOR]
XP: 0
Age: 40 
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 220 lbs.
Str: 14 +2 [COLOR=red]Had 35 points to start you ony spent 28.[/COLOR]
Dex: 13 +1
Con:16 +3
Int:10 +0
Wis:11 +0
Cha:10 +0
Speed: 30' [COLOR=red](20' due to armor)[/COLOR]Initiative: +5 Grapple: +3
Base Attack Bonus: +1 [COLOR=red]list ACP: -6[/COLOR]
Base Armor Shield Dex Natural Misc
Armor: 17 = 10 4 2 1
Dmg (S)Dmg (M) Critical Range Increment Weight1 Type2
Longsword1d6 1d8 19-20/×2 __ 4 lb. Slashing
Base Mod
Fort: +5 = 2 +3
Ref: +1 = 0 +1
Will: +0 = 0 +0
Skills: [COLOR=red](skill point total is 20 at first lvl due to houserule you spent 12)[/COLOR]
Ride = 3 2 + 1
Handle Animal = 2 2 + 0
Craft (Brewery) = 4 4 + 0
Intimidate = 4 4 + 0 [COLOR=red](add +2 from persuasive feat total=6)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]List climb/swim/ as they have ACP penalties not standard ability check[/COLOR]
Feats: [COLOR=red](one feat short)[/COLOR]
Improved Initiative
Mounted Combat
Persuasive
Equipment/Cost:          [COLOR=red]Money: 44gp  4sp  7cp[/COLOR]
Scale Mail/50gp
Heavy Steel Shield/20gp [COLOR=red]List the cost and wieght for all items[/COLOR]
Longsword/15gp [COLOR=red]also list what is in your Backpack& pouch[/COLOR]
Bjorngard Helmet
Belt and Pouch
Back Pack
Blanket
Flask (Filled, water)
Fish Net
Flint and Steel
Waterskin (Filled, Water)
Spade
Bottle of Bjorngard Mead
Simple Travellers Garments
 
[COLOR=red]Add Total Wieght: 74.5[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]List carrying capacity: light/med/heavy/lift/push&pull I didn't list because you may up your strength. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]   [/COLOR]


----------



## Erwinfoxjj

Hey Jake, In am not too sure what you mean by 35 points. If you could kinda help me out with the corrections it would be nice.


----------



## HolyMan

Erwinfoxjj said:


> Hey Jake, In am not too sure what you mean by 35 points. If you could kinda help me out with the corrections it would be nice.




NP Jacob,

Point buying is listed in the DmG pg 169

basically all stats start at 8 and you spend your 35 points to bring them up using the chart provided


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hmm i thought i had posted this earlier but apparently my internet connection decided to act up. I changed it to take 10 which still yields an impressive DC of 26 

Also, point buy is available on IK here: Stat Buy


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Hmm i thought i had posted this earlier but apparently my internet connection decided to act up. I changed it to take 10 which still yields an impressive DC of 26
> 
> Also, point buy is available on IK here: Stat Buy




Then it would only take 1/2 the time (10 min) and 1/2 the resources (round a 1/2 sheet of paper up to 1) As I believe roleplaying at the campfire will take in-game time of 20-30 min you can introduce yourself there if you like. It will be getting dark soon and a little light to touch up the picture of your brother would be nice. Your call. Don't have to be right there (all those men yuck ) but like you to be nearby.


----------



## Deskjob

*Forgery*

Sounds like Lora has got herself a nice little forgery.  Expensive, perhaps;.. but lovely none the less.  Maybe I'll have to think up some way to get a fake paycheck too, hmm?  Just kidding, of course.  Hehe.

Hope to see Lora around the fire soon.  Night night.


----------



## Myth and Legend

I doubt HM's world uses paychecks, it's much too close to medieval Europe during the 100 year war  That being said, i don't think Lora's fogery attempt is that expensive - she has a whole vial of ink, several blank pages and artisan's tools. These things don't cost more than 10-15 gp and will last her a while unless she starts taking 20, which as HM pointed out was not necessary at the moment.


----------



## Erwinfoxjj

I got my character stuff fixed and adjusted, i think. ANyone minding checking it and letting me know if it still needs more work?


----------



## Myth and Legend

I think i finally made my build:

Wizard 6, EK 2, Dragonslayer 1, Spellsword 10, EK1. However it requires that you allow Dragonslayer (from Draconomicon) and Spellsword (from Complete Warrior) Another feat i will probably need a lot is Practiced Spellcaster (Complete Arcane). So... a lot of extra material  Let me know if you need more info on any of these. 

Basically i want a good Fighter/Mage based on an Int caster (Wizard).


----------



## HolyMan

Great job so far gang the IC thread is better than I ever would have believed!! I got alot of Out of Game stuff to do here then will post in the IC the beginings of a mission thread  

O.k. first to Erwinfoxjj : Will talk to you at work I'm off Friday(changed shifts) will be there sat,sun, and mon will finish your stats and round him out

To Myth and Legend: In the RG under your equipment list forged document it's DC and a link to the post it is in(# 11 IC). You lost 1 sheet of paper and not enough ink to make a difference. If you want the picture to be done will lose 1 piece of canvas and one in your tools.

Where's Ginger?? I 'm sure within one mile I hope not in the woods.

Can you post are first NPC in the RG please go ahead and sblock=Fallon him in
[sblock=Fallon]This old, thin man is of average height(5-10) and always has a ready grin. He is polite and curious of all those he meets 
taking the time to listen to their story. He is making his way as a camp follower and spends most his time cooking. With 
thick white hair to his shoulders, a hundred wrinkles on his face he looks nothing more than a wizen man who has seen a 
little of the world in his time.[/sblock]

Which brings me to the sblock on the IC great idea will re-post it in first IC post for new players and everyone current please sblock anything not related to roleplay in the IC

anything else can think of anything back to the game


----------



## Deskjob

*Huh?*

(in reference to post #15 in the IC thread)

"I be missin' an Outer?"  What the heck does that mean?  Hope someone can figure it out and come tell poor daydreaming Shinn...  I'm not gonna post until Ghostcat and ML do...  hehehe.


----------



## HolyMan

Done on purpose so you could ask that question in-character Deskjob and your not to faraway to hear Martomum's big mouth.


----------



## Deskjob

*Oh, kittens!*

Well, in that case.  Nevermind.  I'll just jump right in head-first.

Haha.  I laughed at the dwarfs rant about water.  That is something a knuckle-headed taskmaster would say.  Nice work HolyMan.


----------



## HolyMan

Thank you (bows deeply) I hope to flesh out the npc's but now there cast more to type. My first taskmaster was a human I wrote in my notes grizzly, wild black beard and hair, strict, dour, then went and scrathed out human and put dwarf.

Great interaction with the donkey (and adding Moggins in a post) 

Just waiting for a responses from Erwinfoxjj and will get a mission started. 
Also giving others time to jump in.


----------



## HolyMan

o.k. everyone ready to go on a little adventure?? This is how I'd like to see this work but ideals and thoughts are most welcome.

so we have about three-four players and are ready for a mission (will find a way to get you in ML and wysiwyg, that's what DM's do)

But before I get the thread up need to know everyone is ready and can post about once/twice a week for the next couple months

While on a mission you shouldn't post in the Off to War (IC) till i post you back in,  that's how I want to run it I'll use my placeholder to post you out and into the woods after the dwarf (all those who want to go) and post you back in returning.

The IC can still go on with those who didn't go on mission and new people who join up/finish there characters

So need to know who wants to follow the mad dwarf


----------



## Deskjob

*Follow the white rabbit, er dwarf*

I work from home.  So i should be able to post a few times a week, no problem.  Shinn is in.  (Wow, that rhymed!  Did ya see that!  No really.  "Shinn is in!"  Haha.  Say that three times fast.  "Shinn, is in!"  Woo!  Haha.  Yeah!  Haha.  Alrighty.)
(.. Okay)...
(... Yes sir)...
(.... Haha)...
(..... Mmm)...
(...... ???)...

Yeah, I'm good.


----------



## HolyMan

*One more thing*

Nearly forgot before you go on mission make sure your character sheet is done the way you want it. There will be no way to change after first mission you will be gaining/losing equipment and using your stat scores and skills so any last changes please look into now and let me know if you did make a change i got characters copy pasted to my notepads.

Shinn is in Shinn is in Shinn is in not to bad took me about five minutes.


----------



## Erwinfoxjj

Well I should be able to. I wouldn't mind running around with a mad dwarf. Although, I thought the game was the IC thread....


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hey HolyMan what about that Craft check for extra gold? I remembered just now


----------



## Erwinfoxjj

I added a few items which brought my total load up to a medium Load. Are we able to leave behind some stuff at the camp while we search for th lost outriders, or is this going to be going on while the army is moving? Just curious about the time passing and events in motion right now that we know.


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Hey HolyMan what about that Craft check for extra gold? I remembered just now




You spend your starting gold on equipment (and you don't have to spend it all) then you make a craft check adding the resukt to your money BUT you don't get to buy anything with the money at character generation have to wait till you are in the game


----------



## HolyMan

Erwinfoxjj said:


> I added a few items which brought my total load up to a medium Load. Are we able to leave behind some stuff at the camp while we search for th lost outriders, or is this going to be going on while the army is moving? Just curious about the time passing and events in motion right now that we know.




Will check out your sheet (change the stats yet??) Up to you if you want to leave it behind or not really your ACP is already at max so a med load is nothing

Remeber also leave something behind might not be there but let me now here if you do decice to leave anything (besides the donkey Deskjob)


----------



## Theroc

Btw, Holyman, sorry I've been so quiet here lately, was slightly confused with stuff, and stuff kept me away from the computer the past few days... so... I hadn't gotten around to actually writing up my character.

I'm not feeling particularly well tonight, so I'll see how I'm feeling tomorrow, and try to get it started if I'm feeling better tomorrow...


----------



## HolyMan

I am now ready for the side quest "Search in the Dark" just waiting for a go no go from ghostcat, and then I'll post in the Off to War thread with a link to the adventure.

Remember post here any equipment you are leaving in camp.

Will also still post in the IC for Myth and Legend & wysiwyg to bring them into the side quest


----------



## Deskjob

*Just leave it behind*

Yeah, I'll leave the mule.  I know, I know,...  your thinkin?  "How can he leave his Noble Stead behind?"  Well tough!  Its a rough world kiddos.  Gotta learn to play with the big boys.  No more Donkey!  No more Parfeys!  And, no more Onions!  

(stupid Shrek movies...)


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> ty ghostcat maybe should put into character what you have when familiar is within one mile and that way we will no what is lost without looking it up eah time




I've updated my character sheet. Hope all is clear. If not, I'll have another go.



HolyMan said:


> I am now ready for the side quest "Search in the Dark" just waiting for a go no go from ghostcat, and then I'll post in the Off to War thread with a link to the adventure.
> 
> Remember post here any equipment you are leaving in camp.
> 
> Will also still post in the IC for Myth and Legend & wysiwyg to bring them into the side quest




Sorry for holding things up. All ready and raring to go.


----------



## HolyMan

Alright real quick before I'm off to work.

1.) Deskjob I need an alert when you add something as kool as that picture of Shinn to the RG 
2.) Shinn should have a -8 ACP penalty to his Swim skill 

3.)For Trinham Move Silenty total should read +6/+9 (hope I got the color right)
4.)Lift= 260  Push=650
5.)When in combat mode should we list Spells per day like this
0= ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
1= ( ) ( ) ( ) 
So that when you use one you can just  "X" the bow (X).
Let me know if you have a different approach.
6.)No hold up my friend, we are posting faster than I ever excpeted so keep on keepin on.

I hope Erwinfoxjj is at work today  

O.k. off to work will have thread up tonight. Later.


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> 3.)For Trinham Move Silenty total should read +6/+9 (hope I got the color right)
> 4.)Lift= 260  Push=650
> 5.)When in combat mode should we list Spells per day like this
> 0= ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
> 1= ( ) ( ) ( )
> So that when you use one you can just  "X" the bow (X).
> Let me know if you have a different approach.




3 & 4 done.

5 is fine.


----------



## Theroc

Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Aidan Burke
[B]Class:[/B] Monk
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male

[B]Str:[/B] 12 +1 (04p.)     [B]Level:[/B] 1        [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]BAB:[/B] +0         [B]HP:[/B] XXX (XdX+XX)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (06p.)     [B]Grapple:[/B] +1     [B]Dmg Red:[/B] None
[B]Int:[/B] 13 +1 (05p.)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30'      [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0
[B]Wis:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +3        [B]Spell Save:[/B] +0
[B]Cha:[/B] 15 +2 (08p.)     [B]ACP:[/B] -0         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%

                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +0    +0    +3    +0    +0    +2    15
[B]Touch:[/B] 15              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10

                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      2    +2          =4
[B]Ref:[/B]                       2    +3          =5
[B]Will:[/B]                      2    +0          =2

[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/B]
Unarmed                   +3     1d6+1      20-20x2
Kama                      +3     1d6+1      20-20x2
Javelin(x3)               +3     1d6+1      20-20x3


[B]Languages:[/B] Common, (Elven or Halfling, whichever is more common in Pesh)

[B]Abilities:[/B]
Extra feat at first level
+4 extra skillpoints at first level
+1 skillpoint at every level
Extra +2/+2 feat
Adds Charisma bonus to AC
Flurry of Blows
Unarmed Strike progression


[B]Feats:[/B]
Acrobatic(Bonus +2/+2)
Stunning Fist[Keyed to Charisma](Bonus Monk Feat)
Combat Expertise(Level 1 Feat)
Weapon Finesse(Human Bonus Feat)



[B]Skill Points:[/B] 32       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 6/3
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Jump                       2    +1     +2    =5
Balance                    2    +2     +0    =4
Climb                      2    +1     +0    =3
Concentration              2    +2     +0    =4
Craft(Bowmaking)           2    +1     +0    =3
Hide                       2    +2     +0    =4
Knwdge(Geography)          1    +1     +0    =2
Bluff                      2    +2     +0    =3
Listen                     2    +1     +0    =3
Move Silently              2    +2     +0    =4
Sense Motive               2    +1     +0    =3
Spot                       2    +1     +0    =3
Swim                       2    +1     +0    =3
Tumble                     3    +2     +2    =7
Diplomacy                  2    +2     +0    =4



[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]
Kama                     02gp   02lb
Javelin(x3)              03gp   06lb
Backpack                 02gp   02lb

[B]Total Weight:[/B]10lb      [B]Money:[/B] 5gp 5sp 00cp

                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]               43   44-86   87-130   260   650

[B]Age:[/B] 18
[B]Height:[/B] 5'8"
[B]Weight:[/B] 120lb
[B]Eyes:[/B] Blue
[B]Hair:[/B] Black
[B]Skin:[/B] Farmer's Tan, clear complexion

*Appearance:* XXXX

*Background:* XXXX

Crunch Swaps:
Knowledge(Arcana) for Bluff
Weapon Proficiencies:
Crossbow (Light) for Shortbow
Crossbow (heavy) for Longbow
Nunchaku and shuriken for Spiked Chain Proficiency(Something to prove his skill at wielding... and more likely accessible to a farmboy)
Siangham for Greataxe (Farm tool, for firewood)
Shuriken and dagger for Scythe(Farming tool... why it's a martial weapon is beyond me)
Keyed Monk abilities (And stunning fist) to Charisma instead of wisdom

Will write up history and appearance in a bit... I know you like the concept first, but I gave the basic premise and I want to make sure I have a fairly good story for him rather than something just thrown down.


----------



## HolyMan

I am on so if anyone has any questions for me please ask I'll be back and forth posting the new thread and checking up the new character


----------



## HolyMan

Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Aidan Burke
[B]Class:[/B] Monk
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male
 [COLOR=red]Alignment??[/COLOR]
[B]Str:[/B] 12 +1 (04p.)     [B]Level:[/B] 1        [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]BAB:[/B] +0         [B]HP:[/B] XXX (XdX+XX)[COLOR=red]10 (1d8+2)[/COLOR]
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (06p.)     [B]Grapple:[/B] +1     [B]Dmg Red:[/B] None
[B]Int:[/B] 13 +1 (05p.)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30'      [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0
[B]Wis:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +3        [B]Spell Save:[/B] +0 [COLOR=red]change to n/a[/COLOR]
[B]Cha:[/B] 15 +2 (08p.)     [B]ACP:[/B] -0         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%  [COLOR=red]change to n/a[/COLOR]
                                          [COLOR=red]change Size to DB do to house rule[/COLOR]
                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +0    +0    +3    +0    +0    +2    15
[B]Touch:[/B] 15              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10
 
                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      2    +2          =4
[B]Ref:[/B]                       2    +3          =5
[B]Will:[/B]                      2    +0          =2
 
[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical           [COLOR=red]Range[/COLOR][/B]
Unarmed                   +3 [COLOR=red]+1*[/COLOR]   1d6+1      20-20x2        [COLOR=red]--[/COLOR]
Kama                      +3 [COLOR=red]+1*[/COLOR]    1d6+1      20-20x2        [COLOR=red]--[/COLOR]
Javelin(x3)               +3     1d6+1      20-20x3            [COLOR=red]30'[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]*see weapon finesse[/COLOR]
 
[B]Languages:[/B] Common, (Elven or Halfling, whichever is more common in Pesh)  
[COLOR=red]Halfling since they make great farmers[/COLOR]
 
[B]Abilities:[/B]
Extra feat at first level
+4 extra skillpoints at first level
+1 skillpoint at every level
Extra +2/+2 feat
Adds Charisma bonus to AC
Flurry of Blows
Unarmed Strike progression
 [COLOR=red]Unarmed Damage (1d6)[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]AC Bonus +0[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]Unarmored Speed Bonus +0ft[/COLOR]
 
[B]Feats:[/B]
Acrobatic(Bonus +2/+2)
Stunning Fist[Keyed to Charisma](Bonus Monk Feat)
Combat Expertise(Level 1 Feat)
Weapon Finesse(Human Bonus Feat)[COLOR=red]Not allowed do to +0 BAB[/COLOR]
 [COLOR=red]You could swap out a second lvl ability/feat[/COLOR]
 
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] 32       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 6/3 [COLOR=red]should be 4/2 at first lvl[/COLOR]
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Jump                       2    +1     +2    =5
Balance                    2    +2     +0    =4
Climb                      2    +1     +0    =3
Concentration              2    +2     +0    =4
Craft(Bowmaking)           2    +1     +0    =3
Hide                       2    +2     +0    =4
Knwdge(Geography)          1    +1     +0    =2
Bluff                      2    +2     +0    =3
Listen                     2    +1     +0    =3
Move Silently              2    +2     +0    =4
Sense Motive               2    +1     +0    =3
Spot                       2    +1     +0    =3
Swim                       2    +1     +0    =3
Tumble                     3    +2     +2    =7
Diplomacy                  2    +2     +0    =4
 [COLOR=red]Knowledge(geography)cc sholud read like that[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]Also I have you at 31 skill points spent[/COLOR]
 
 
[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]
Kama    [COLOR=red]sickle???[/COLOR]       02gp   02lb
Javelin(x3)              03gp   06lb
Backpack                 02gp   02lb
 
[B]Total Weight:[/B]10lb      [B]Money:[/B] 5gp 5sp 00cp
 
                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]               43   44-86   87-130   260   650
 
[B]Age:[/B] 18
[B]Height:[/B] 5'8"
[B]Weight:[/B] 120lb
[B]Eyes:[/B] Blue
[B]Hair:[/B] Black
[B]Skin:[/B] Farmer's Tan, clear complexion

*Appearance:* XXXX

*Background:* XXXX

Crunch Swaps:
Knowledge(Arcana) for Bluff
Weapon Proficiencies:
Crossbow (Light) for Shortbow
Crossbow (heavy) for Longbow
Nunchaku and shuriken for Spiked Chain Proficiency(Something to prove his skill at wielding... and more likely accessible to a farmboy)
Siangham for Greataxe (Farm tool, for firewood)
Shuriken and dagger for Scythe(Farming tool... why it's a martial weapon is beyond me)
Keyed Monk abilities (And stunning fist) to Charisma instead of wisdom

I think you should keep dagger prof. a very basic weapon. How do you like this for Aidan's weapon proficient list: dagger, sickle, club, quarterstaff, javelin, sling, throwing axe, handaxe, battleaxe, greataxe, scythe, long and short bows (but NOT composites), spiked chain. All the simple melee weapons can be used with the flurry of blow ability.


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Theroc,

Your charater has a great base to start so as he lvls up he should become a great circle fighter still need a new name huh?

I got nothing either sorry but it will come as we play.

Once you've made the changes please post him in the RG and you just need an apperance added to post in the IC. 

Don't worry that the side quest is about to start you can still get in.


----------



## Theroc

I hadn't changed kama proficiency, since a kama essentially was a sickle, but I suppose your weapons list is fine.

As for DB, I'm not sure what that is... It wasn't in your Houserules thread... and this is what, 15 pages or so to sift through?

I'd forgotten, I was going to swap out Knowledge: Religion for Geography.

I'll fix the rest, I knew it was too good to be true, getting WF already.

Not sure how you got 31 for my skills, when I had a 3 ranks and a 1, and the rest were 2's.


----------



## Theroc

Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Aidan Burke
[B]Class:[/B] Monk
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male
[B]Alignment:[/B] Chaotic Good (If I must stick to Lawful, that's fine, but it doesn't really suit the concept much...)[COLOR=red]

[/COLOR] [B]Str:[/B] 12 +1 (04p.)     [B]Level:[/B] 1        [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]BAB:[/B] +0         [B]HP:[/B] 10 (1d8+02)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (06p.)     [B]Grapple:[/B] +1     [B]Dmg Red:[/B] None
[B]Int:[/B] 13 +1 (05p.)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30'      [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0
[B]Wis:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +3        [B]Spell Save:[/B] N/A
[B]Cha:[/B] 15 +2 (08p.)     [B]ACP:[/B] -0         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] N/A
                                          
                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  DB   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +0    +0    +3    +0    +0    +2    15
[B]Touch:[/B] 15              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10
 
                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      2    +2          =4
[B]Ref:[/B]                       2    +3          =5
[B]Will:[/B]                      2    +0          =2
 
[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical      [COLOR=White]Range[/COLOR][/B]
Unarmed                   +1     1d6+1      20-20x2        [COLOR=White]--[/COLOR]
Sickle                    +1     1d6+1      20-20x2        [COLOR=White]--[/COLOR]
Javelin(x3)               +3     1d6+1      20-20x3         [COLOR=White]30'[/COLOR]

 
[B]Languages:[/B] Common, Halfling
 
[B]Abilities:[/B]
Extra feat at first level
+4 extra skillpoints at first level
+1 skillpoint at every level
Extra +2/+2 feat
Adds Charisma bonus to AC
Flurry of Blows
Unarmed Strike progression
[COLOR=White]Unarmed Damage (1d6)
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]AC Bonus +0
[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]Unarmored Speed Bonus +0ft[/COLOR]
 
[B]Feats:[/B]
Acrobatic(Bonus +2/+2)
Stunning Fist[Keyed to Charisma](Bonus Monk Feat)
Combat Expertise(Level 1 Feat)
Improved Trip (Bonus Human Feat)
 
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] 32       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 4/2
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Jump                       2    +1     +2    =5
Balance                    2    +2     +0    =4
Climb                      2    +1     +0    =3
Concentration              2    +2     +0    =4
Craft(Bowmaking)           2    +1     +0    =3
Hide                       2    +2     +0    =4
Knwdge(Geography)          1    +1     +0    =2
Bluff                      2    +2     +0    =3
Listen                     2    +1     +0    =3
Move Silently              2    +2     +0    =4
Sense Motive               2    +1     +0    =3
Spot                       2    +1     +0    =3
Swim                       2    +1     +0    =3
Tumble                     3    +2     +2    =7
Diplomacy                  2    +2     +0    =4

 
 
[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]
Sickle                     06gp   02lb
Javelin(x3)              03gp   06lb
Backpack                 02gp   02lb
 
[B]Total Weight:[/B]10lb      [B]Money:[/B] 4gp 5sp 00cp
 
                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]               43   44-86   87-130   260   650
 
[B]Age:[/B] 18
[B]Height:[/B] 5'8"
[B]Weight:[/B] 120lb
[B]Eyes:[/B] Blue
[B]Hair:[/B] Black
[B]Skin:[/B] Farmer's Tan, clear complexion

*Appearance:* XXXX

*Background:* XXXX

Craft Roll:
1d20+3=6/2=3g

Crunch Swaps:
Knowledge(Arcana) for Bluff
KNowledge(Religion) for Knowledge(Geography)
Weapon Proficiencies: dagger, sickle, club, quarterstaff, javelin, sling, throwing axe, handaxe, battleaxe, greataxe, scythe, long and short bows (but NOT composites), spiked chain. All the simple melee weapons can be used with the flurry of blows ability.
Keyed Monk abilities (And stunning fist) to Charisma instead of wisdom


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I hadn't changed kama proficiency, since a kama essentially was a sickle, but I suppose your weapons list is fine.
> 
> As for DB, I'm not sure what that is... It wasn't in your Houserules thread... and this is what, 15 pages or so to sift through?
> 
> I'd forgotten, I was going to swap out Knowledge: Religion for Geography.
> 
> I'll fix the rest, I knew it was too good to be true, getting WF already.
> 
> Not sure how you got 31 for my skills, when I had a 3 ranks and a 1, and the rest were 2's.




DB should be in houserules thread link posted first post of this thread

If you want to switch knowledges kool the one fits the concept better

No WF!?! Sorry, Aidan will become a great combatant of the circles he's just going to have to start small lol.

You might have forgot the houserule to add +2 skill points to the Base skill points for your class (again i have a non-15 page thread lol) So you should have skill points = 32 (6 base + 1 INT mod.) x4 +4 human 

And for everyone else the side adventure thread is here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258748-search-dark.html

Lets play some D&D


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> DB should be in houserules thread link posted first post of this thread
> 
> If you want to switch knowledges kool the one fits the concept better
> 
> No WF!?! Sorry, Aidan will become a great combatant of the circles he's just going to have to start small lol.
> 
> You might have forgot the houserule to add +2 skill points to the Base skill points for your class (again i have a non-15 page thread lol) So you should have skill points = 32 (6 base + 1 INT mod.) x4 +4 human
> 
> And for everyone else the side adventure thread is here:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258748-search-dark.html
> 
> Lets play some D&D




6+1=7
7*4=28
28+4=32
I used 32 skillpoints.  You said I only used 31.

As for your comment on the houserules thread, I'm looking at the page titled "Off to War Houserules" and I see NOTHING about DB at all... which is why I'm confused and didn't list it.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> 6+1=7
> 7*4=28
> 28+4=32
> I used 32 skillpoints. You said I only used 31.
> 
> As for your comment on the houserules thread, I'm looking at the page titled "Off to War Houserules" and I see NOTHING about DB at all... which is why I'm confused and didn't list it.




Think i was still counting Knowledge geography as a cross-class skill

Really?? not there then I have some work to catch up on sorry

Craft- just make a craft check 1d20 + total then divide by two the result is the total in extra gp you can add to your character sheet


----------



## HolyMan

And you are right Theroc!! I guess when I posted it here I thought I posted it there. I have posted the following in the houserules:

*Defence Bonus (DB)* 
We will be using a parrying type rule that will be avaiable to all characters. Your DB will replace the size spot in your character sheet, as all characters will be medium. 

Your DB is simply 1/2 your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) rounded down.

This number is then added to your AC and your touch AC but not your Flat-Footed AC.

As this rule has never been used that I know of we will workout any bugs as they should pop up.


----------



## Theroc

Is the rest of Aidan's stuff good, Holyman?


----------



## HolyMan

Yes indeed Theroc go ahead and post him to the RG


----------



## Theroc

I added a basic appearance and history for Aidan as well, in the RG version of his profile.


----------



## Deskjob

*Roll Call Update*

[sblock=HolyMan]HolyMan.  You wizard you.  Why dont you go ahead and add Theroc's monk to the Roll Call section of the Rogue's Gallery.  When you get a chance, of course.  No hurry. Peace out.[/sblock]


----------



## ghostcat

HM. I have updated Trinham's character sheet to reflect the Alertness feat. Sorry I forgot to do this earlier.


----------



## HolyMan

Deskjob said:


> [sblock=HolyMan]HolyMan. You wizard you. Why dont you go ahead and add Theroc's monk to the Roll Call section of the Rogue's Gallery. When you get a chance, of course. No hurry. Peace out.[/sblock]




Noticed I'm behind lol it's hard for me to get everything done over the weekends but I 'm off today will be catching up on everything

everyone can help by keeping an eye out for things like the Roll Call posting i could use the backup (I am getting old lol)


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> HM. I have updated Trinham's character sheet to reflect the Alertness feat. Sorry I forgot to do this earlier.




No problem ghostcat a note to all if you make a check I'll try and make sure to check invisible castle Not to keep you fair( that is really up to you) but to make sure you added all bonuses and rolled the correct check

\


----------



## Myth and Legend

Lora enters - stage left  Explanation on her CHA and appearance: Lora has only a CHA of 9 but i never regarded CHA as simply good looks. In fact it's mostly personality and radiance. So as far as appearance goes, she is pretty. But her demeanor, manners and overall "leave me the hell alone" type attitude lowers her CHA


----------



## HolyMan

O.k. will remeber that-- sweet face/ bitter dispostion

let me go see what you've posted in the IC


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Lora enters - stage left  Explanation on her CHA and appearance: Lora has only a CHA of 9 but i never regarded CHA as simply good looks. In fact it's mostly personality and radiance. So as far as appearance goes, she is pretty. But her demeanor, manners and overall "leave me the hell alone" type attitude lowers her CHA




I agree, though it always makes me want to make a hideous character with unbelievable charisma just for giggles.  Hm... maybe someday I'll find a game where I can make something like a Half-Troll with skyhigh charisma.


----------



## HolyMan

Half-Troll/Half-Ogre Mage  so you can be one hell of a sorcerer  

and hideous would be the mild description lol

Going to post in the IC be ready in about 10 min


----------



## HolyMan

*catching up on characters and posts*

been working at this the past couple hours will be trying to catch everything up:

First up Shinn/deskjob



		Code:
	

Name: Shinn
Class: Fighter
Race: Human
Size: M
Gender: M
Alignment: NG
Deity: none
 
Str: 16 +3 (10p.)     Level: 1        XP: 0
Dex: 14 +2 (06p.)     BAB: +1         HP: 12 (1d10+2)
Con: 14 +2 (06p.)     Grapple: +0 [COLOR=red](+4)[/COLOR]    Dmg Red: 0/0
Int: 13 +1 (05p.)     Speed: 30'      Spell Res: 0
Wis: 14 +2 (06p.)     Init: +6        Spell Save: n/a
Cha: 10 +0 (02p.)     ACP: -4         Spell Fail: n/a
 
                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex   DB   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:              10    +4    +2    +2    +0    +0    +0    18
Touch: 12              Flatfooted: 16
 
                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      2    +2          +4
Ref:                       0    +2          +2
Will:                      0    +2          +2
 
Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical
Shortspear                 +4     1d6+3      20/x2
Shortspear(thrown)         +3     1d6+3      20/x2    20'
 
Languages: Common,Elf
 
Feats: Dodge,Mobility,Improved Intv,Animal Affinity
 
Skill Points: 24       Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Ride                       4    +2    +2    +8
Handle                     4    +0    +2    +6
Craft(weaver)              4    +1          +5
History                    2    +1          +2  [COLOR=red](+3)[/COLOR]
Swim                       4    +3    -8    -1
Climb                      2    +3    -4    +1
Jump                       2    +3    -4    +1
 
Equipment:               Cost  Weight
[COLOR=red]missing your free outfit (clothing PhB pg. 131)[/COLOR]
Chainshirt              100gp   25lb
Shield (hv,stl)          20gp   15lb
Shortspear                1gp    3lb
Backpack                  2gp    2lb
Bedroll                   1sp    5lb
Waterskin                 1gp    4lb
x2 Beltpouch              2gp    1lb
Donkey                    8gp
Total Weight:56lb      Money: 15gp 9sp 0cp
 
                           Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift[COLOR=#ff0000]O.H./O.G[/COLOR]  Push
Max Weight:               76   153   230   230   460   [COLOR=red]1,150[/COLOR]
 
Age: 21
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 152lb
Eyes: green
Hair: black
Skin: white

 
o.k.that was the easiest one


----------



## Theroc

Myth, how similar do Arthur and Lora look?  Enough for a stranger to think of them as siblings?  Or dissimilar enough that other conclusions for why a young girl is entering a camp full of soldiers asking for one specific one?


----------



## HolyMan

*Trinham/ghostcat*



		Code:
	

Name: Trinham
Class: Battle Sorcerer(1)
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Deity: None
 
Str: 12 +1 (04p.)           Level: 1         XP: 0
Dex: 14 +2 (06p.)          BAB: +0         HP: 5 (1d4)+1 [COLOR=red](1d8+1) 9[/COLOR]
Con: 13 +1 (05p.)         Grapple: +1     Dmg Red: 0/0
Int: 10 +0 (02p.)          Speed: 30'       Spell Res: 0
Wis: 10 +0 (02p.)          Init: +2          Spell Save: n/a [COLOR=red]14 + spell lvl[/COLOR]
Cha: 18 +4 (16p.)         ACP: +0          Spell Fail: 0%
 
Base             Armor       Shld       Dex    DB   Nat    Misc   Total
Armor:10          +2         +0          +2     +0   +0    +0       14
Touch: 12            Flatfooted: 12
 
Base Mod Misc Total
Fort: 0 +1 +0 +1
Ref: 0 +2 +0 +2
Will: 2 +0 +0 +2
 
Weapon                       Attack Damage Critical
Dagger                        +1 1d4+1 19-20/x2
Dagger (Thrown)             +2 1d4+1 19-20/x2 10'
Longsword                   +1 1d8+1 19-20/x2
 
Languages: Common
 
Abilities: Summon Familiar, Alertness [COLOR=red]add this to feats in the color code[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]then add spellcasting to abilities[/COLOR]
 
Feats: Armor Proficiency (Light), Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes,
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longsword), Simple Weapon Proficiency, 
Stealthy. [COLOR=#ff0000]Martial weapon Proficiency = Prof with all light and one-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]handed martial weapons[/COLOR]
 
Skill Points: 20                        Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                              Ranks Mod Misc Total
Concentration                       4 +1 +0 +5
(Cast defensively) " "                    +4 +9
Hide[COLOR=red](cc)[/COLOR]                              2 +2 +2 +6
Intimidate                            2 +4 +0 +6
Listen[COLOR=red](cc)[/COLOR]                       0 +0 +0/+2# +0/+2
Move Silently[COLOR=red](cc)[/COLOR]             2 +2 +2/+5* +6/+9
Spellcraft                             4 +0 +0 +4
Spot[COLOR=red](cc)[/COLOR]                         0 +0 +0/+2# +0/+2
*Cat Familiar (+3 bonus to Move Silently)
#Cat Familiar (+2 bonus due to Alertness)
[COLOR=red]only spent 18 skill points [/COLOR]
 
Equipment:                        Cost Weight
Backpack                              2gp 2lbs
- Bedroll                                1sp 5lbs
- Blanket (Winter)                   5sp 3lbs
- Waterskin (Filled)                 1gp 4lbs
Dagger                          [COLOR=red](2gp)[/COLOR]1gp 1Ibs
Leather                             10gp 15lbs
Longsword                           15gp 4lbs
Explorer's Outfit                      0cp 0lbs
Pouch (Belt)                        1gp 0.5lbs
- Flint and Steel                     1gp 0lbs
- Sewing Needle                      5sp 0lbs
- Soap (Per Lb.)[COLOR=red](1lb)[/COLOR]                5sp 1lbs
- Whetstone                          2cp 1lbs
Shield, Light [COLOR=red]steel[/COLOR]                   9gp 6lbs
[COLOR=red]guess you just like carrying this cool shield because you[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]are not prof in it, have not listed it in AC/ACP/or spell failure[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] 
Total Weight: 33.5 lbs.[COLOR=red](42.5)[/COLOR] Money: 33gp[COLOR=red](30gp left)[/COLOR] 03sp 08cp
 
                                  Lgt Med Hvy Lift[COLOR=red]O.H./O.G.[/COLOR] Push
Max Weight:                  43   86   130    [COLOR=red]130[/COLOR]  260    650
 
Age: 18
Height: 5' 10"
Weight: 218 lbs.
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Blond
Skin: Fair


----------



## HolyMan

to wysiwyg: i found alot we need to go over let me know as soon as you are ready to help go over some things thanks

missing my co-DM


----------



## Deskjob

*Women in the army*

I'm sure there would be some females in the irregulars.  Woman can fill all the roles males can right?  (Disregarding the past three thousand years of male recorded history, of course.)  It probably ain't too strange to see a weapon weilding female around.  (Well,... maybe such a young one?)  

The fighting females probably wouldn't stand out as much as we'd think either.  I mean.  Female Dwarf stereotypes aside.  Hehe.

(Steven Tyler singing): "Ah! ah! Dude looks like a lady!  Ah! ah! Dude looks like a lady!"


----------



## Theroc

Deskjob said:


> I'm sure there would be some females in the irregulars.  Woman can fill all the roles males can right?  (Disregarding the past three thousand years of male recorded history, of course.)  It probably ain't too strange to see a weapon weilding female around.  (Well,... maybe such a young one?)
> 
> The fighting females probably wouldn't stand out as much as we'd think either.  I mean.  Female Dwarf stereotypes aside.  Hehe.
> 
> (Steven Tyler singing): "Ah! ah! Dude looks like a lady!  Ah! ah! Dude looks like a lady!"






Well, given the seeming simulation of Medieval times, I had simply assumed that women were not frequently given warrior roles, save the incredibly headstrong.  Additionally, I would certainly not expect such a young woman to be out by herself on such an endeavor.  Granted, I could be wrong, just the vibe I was getting from the setting.


----------



## HolyMan

*next is Hralfgar because he's in the woods*

Here from the Ole BE 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Hralfgar
Class: Fighter
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Lawful Good
deity could be none 
Level: 1
Hit Points: 12
XP: 0
Age: 40
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 220 lbs.
Languages: Common
Str: 18 +4
Dex: 13 +1
Con:14 +2
Int:10 +0
Wis:12 +1
Cha:10 +0
Speed: 20' Initiative: +4(+5) Grapple: +4(+5)
Base Attack Bonus: +1 ACP: -6 
Carrying Capacity: 
Light: >100 lbs. 
Medium: 101-200 lbs. 
Heavy: 201-300 lbs.
Lift O.H.: 300
Lift O.G.: 600
Push/Drag: 1,500
Base Armor Shield Dex DB Natural Misc
Armor: 17 = 10 4 2 1
Dmg(S) Dmg(M) Critical Weight Type don't really have to list small dmg
Longsword 1d6 1d8 19-20/×2 4 lb. Slashing
Handaxe 1d4 1d6 ×3 3 lb.Slashing
Base Mod
Fort: +4 = 2 + 2
Ref: +1 = 0 + 1
Will: +0 = 0 + 0 (+1) fromm WIS mod
Skills:
Ride = 7 4 + 1 + 2
Handle Animal = 6 4 + 0 + 2
Craft (Brewery) = 4 4 + 0
Intimidate = 6 4 + 0 + 2 
Perform (oratory) = 4 4 + 0
Bluff(cc) = 2 0 + 0 + 2

Feats:
Improved Initiative
Mounted Combat
Persuasive
Animal Affinity
Equipment/Cost/Weight: 
Scale Mail/50gp/30 lbs.
Heavy Steel Shield/20gp/15 lbs.
Longsword/15gp/4 lbs.
Bjorngard Helmet/heirloom/6 lbs.
Belt and Pouch/1sp/1 lb.
Money: 16gp 5sp 6cp  list at the bottom
Flint and Steel/1gp/ -
signal whistle/8s/- 
Back Pack/2gp/2 lbs.
Blanket, winter/5gp/3 lbs.
Flask (Filled, water)/3cp/3 lbs.
Fish Net/4gp/5 lbs.
Waterskin (Filled, Water)/1gp/4 lbs.
Spade/2gp/8 lbs.
Bottle of Bjorngard Mead/homemade/2 lbs.
Tent/10gp/20lbs.
10 torches/1s/10 lbs.
bowl, plate, mug, utensils(wood)/6gp/2 lbs.
Handaxe/6gp/4 lbs. 
Foreigners Garments/5gp/4 lbs. starting outfit is free and weights 0lb.
Total GP/lbs.:120gp 1s/ 125 lbs.


----------



## HolyMan

*Theroc your next*

For the man who is the whole reason I started this thread lets see what we got:

Name: Aidan Burke
Class: Monk
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Deity: again could be none, but you may develop one in the future?
who knows 
 Str: 12 +1 (04p.)     Level: 1        XP: 0
Dex: 16 +3 (10p.)     BAB: +0         HP: 10 (1d8+02)
Con: 14 +2 (06p.)     Grapple: +1     Dmg Red: None
Int: 13 +1 (05p.)     Speed: 30'      Spell Res: 0
Wis: 10 +0 (02p.)     Init: +3        Spell Save: N/A
Cha: 15 +2 (08p.)     ACP: -0         Spell Fail: N/A

                   Base  Armor Shld   Dex  DB   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:              10    +0    +0    +3    +0    +0    +2    15
Touch: 15              Flatfooted: 10

                         Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:                      2    +2          =4
Ref:                       2    +3          =5
Will:                      2    +0          =2

Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical      Range
Unarmed                   +1     1d6+1      20-20x2        --
Sickle                    +1     1d6+1      20-20x2        --
Javelin(x3)               +3     1d6+1      20-20x3         30'

Languages: Common, Halfling

Abilities:
Extra feat at first level
+4 extra skillpoints at first level
+1 skillpoint at every level
Extra +2/+2 feat
Adds Charisma bonus to AC
Flurry of Blows
Unarmed Strike progression
Unarmed Damage (1d6)
 AC Bonus +0
 Unarmored Speed Bonus +0ft

Feats:
Acrobatic(Bonus +2/+2)
Stunning Fist[Keyed to Charisma](Bonus Monk Feat)
Combat Expertise(Level 1 Feat)
Improved Trip (Bonus Human Feat)


Skill Points: 32       Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
Jump                       2    +1     +2    =5
Balance                    2    +2     +0    =4
Climb                      2    +1     +0    =3
Concentration              2    +2     +0    =4
Craft(Bowmaking)           2    +1     +0    =3
Hide                       2    +2     +0    =4
Knwdge(Geography)          1    +1     +0    =2
Bluff                      2    +2     +0    =3
Listen                     2    +1     +0    =3
Move Silently              2    +2     +0    =4
Sense Motive               2    +1     +0    =3
Spot                       2    +1     +0    =3
Swim                       2    +1     +0    =3
Tumble                     3    +2     +2    =7
Diplomacy                  2    +2     +0    =4
o.k. says you have 32 pts (good) but i count only 30 spent
maybe my math skills are finally gone lol see what you get

Equipment:               Cost  Weight
Sickle                     06gp   02lb
Javelin(x3)              03gp   06lb
Backpack                 02gp   02lb

Total Weight:10lb      Money: 4gp 5sp 00cp

                           Lgt   Med   Hvy  LiftO.H./O.G  Push
Max Weight:               43   44-86   87-130 130  260   650

Age: 18
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 120lb
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Black
Skin: Farmer's Tan, clear complexion


----------



## HolyMan

*last finally*

Sorry i had to put your character in a different form for me it was hard copy pasting it you don t have to change the way you have her in the RG just easier for me to help in corrections:



		Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Loreen Winmer
[B]Class:[/B] Wizard
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Female
[B]Alignment:[/B] Chaotic Good
[B]Deity:[/B] Sannaya
 
[B]Str:[/B] 14 +2            [B]Level:[/B] 1        [B]XP:[/B] 25
[B]Dex:[/B] 14 +2            [B]BAB:[/B] +0         [B]HP:[/B]  6 (1d4+2)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2            [B]Grapple:[/B] +2     [B]Dmg Red:[/B] 0
[B]Int:[/B] 18 +4            [B]Speed:[/B] 30'      [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0%
[B]Wis:[/B] 08 -1            [B]Init:[/B] +2        [B]Spell Save:[/B] 14+sp lvl
[B]Cha:[/B] 09 -1            [B]ACP:[/B] +0         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%
 
                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex   DB   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +0    +0    +2    +0    +0    +0    12
[B]Touch:[/B] 12              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10
 
                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      0    +2    +2        +2
[B]Ref:[/B]                       0    +2          +2
[B]Will:[/B]                      2    -1          +1
 
[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/B]
Glaive                     +2       1D10+2       X3    special:reach weapon
 [COLOR=red]I didn't see a combat area posted [/COLOR]
[B]Languages:[/B] Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Orc
 [COLOR=red]change Draconic to Magius as the wizard languages[/COLOR]
[B]Abilities:[/B] human racial abilities, summon familiar, spellcasting,
        spellbook, bonus feats
 
[B]Feats:[/B] Militia, Dodge, Scrbe Scroll, Acrobatic
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] XX36       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 4/2
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Concentration               4     +2           6
Craft(drawing)              4     +4           8
Knowledge(arcana)           4     +4           8
Knowledge(history)          4     +4           8
Knowledge(nobility/royalty) 4     +4           8
Knowledge(religion)         4     +4           8
Knowledge(local)            4     +4           8
Spellcraft                  4     +4           8
Tumble(cc)                  2     +2    +2     6
Jump(cc)                    0     +2    +2     4
 
[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]
[COLOR=red]missing starting clothing  cost 0gp weight 0lb[/COLOR]
Glaive 10 lb 8 gp
Backpack 2 lb 2 gp
Bedroll 5 lb 1 sp 
Blanket, winter 3 lb 5 sp 
Canvas (sq. yd.) x 10 5 lb 5 sp 
Case 1/2lb 1 gp
Artisan's Tools 5 lb 5 gp [COLOR=red]list uses left[/COLOR]
Ink (1 oz. vial) 8 gp
Inkpen 1 sp
Paper (sheet) x 5 2 gp
Pouch, belt 1/2 lb 1 gp
Rations, trail 5 lb 2 gp
Flint and steel 1 gp
Sewing needle 5 sp
Soap 1 lb 5 sp
Waterskin 4 lb 1 gp
Spellbook 3 lb 15 gp
Spell component pouch 2 lb 5 gp
_____
[B]Total Weight:[/B]45.5lb      [B]Money:[/B] 53gp 2sp [COLOR=red]is this what u spent or whats leftover?[/COLOR]
 
                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift      Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]           58    116   175   175/350    875


----------



## HolyMan

*Great Post*

That was a great post in the Search in the Dark thread deskjob I am still laughing.

Keep on with the great posting Shinn an officer hmmm.."Nots if in I 's can be helpn' it."

Hey you aren't suppose to post here.


----------



## Theroc

Holyman, did you need me to change that stuff in the RG?

As for the weight thing, I don't get it at all.


----------



## HolyMan

Yep those are changes to your character

The lift O.H./O.G. is your lift over head and lift off ground numbers

lift oveer head equals your max load
and lift off ground equals your max load x2


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Yep those are changes to your character
> 
> The lift O.H./O.G. is your lift over head and lift off ground numbers
> 
> lift oveer head equals your max load
> and lift off ground equals your max load x2




1. I Can keep my format, right?  I hate that "All along the side" format.  Drives me nuts.  I like these fancy tables.

2. I already have the "Off Ground" number listed, under lift.  I figured it was easy to assume that Off ground would be from max load to the aforementioned weight.


----------



## HolyMan

yes you can use any format i just 
	
	




		Code:
	

 them to make it easier for me to help add on corrections 
 
Didn't notice that about lift my bad


----------



## HolyMan

*To ML:*

I need some type of action posted before my reply are you following, jumped in front of the old man, grabbed his arm???

just will help thank you 

And did you answer Theroc's question above I like to know the answer also.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Well, assuming that the old man did not completely ignore Lora after briefly answering her question, she is simply standing there, about three-four feet away form him, waiting for an answer on who to talk to. If he walks away she will do so as well - Lora hates getting physical, and will just go and ask someone else.

edit: i re-read the DMs post, so it appears that he did in fact, leave Lora and the other lad behind. So then, Lora just leaves and goes looking around for someone else who might know something.

Arthur is older than Lora, an practically a man now. He has auburn hair (Lora's is black), but blue eyes just like hers, albeit somewhat lighter than azure blue. His nose is straight, his jaw wide and he is much taller than his sister. So, If Arthur is well shaved, and one is looking at both of them long enough they could catch the resemblance. But only a very very observant person would have remembered this one specific soldier and his features to such an extent as to assume they are siblings. If he has grown a beard (unlikely as a milita man but then again, one never knows), it would be practically impossible to tell, if you don't closely examine the eyes and the shape of the brows.

Good enough?


----------



## HolyMan

Yep good for me gives me a few ideals,

and if you could post the NPC Martomum for me I will finally be all caught up to date with posts and characters thanks:


[sblock=Martomum] Martomum Stonebreaker, son of the Eridor dwarves under the mountain Faslaw. Scout and warrior, but most recently quartermaster of Lord Bairan's encampment. And he was put both in charge of the Outriders and Irregulars just resently.

He wears a studded jerkin and padded pants all in shades of brown. A nose the size of a potato dominates his face and a dark beard streaked through with gray lays on his chest down too his stomach. The handle
of a large sword can be seen over one of his shoulders and his metal helm has two long horns on the sides.

He has all the traits of a typical dwarf dour, rude, and mean.[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

well spend three hours working on a map only to have it be to big to attach yeah a wasted day anyone know any good map designing places if not we might resort to coloring book dungeons lol

To ML: going to wait to see if Theroc wants to post in the Off to War IC before I contuine on don't want to post something that might force him to react a way his character wouldn't.


----------



## HolyMan

To Erwinfoxjj: Didn' t get your posted initative and my ruling on holdiing something in you shield hand is as follows:

 You may carry something in the same hand your shield is in. But the size/weight of said item will determine if you may still use the shield to full capacity.

A lit torch for example would not allow you to use the shield to full effect because you would want to keep the flame away from you. But an unlit torch would reduce your shield bonus by one because it still gets in the way alittle but you don"t care if it touches you.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Posted the NPC. Regarding shields: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdHo-1jbX1A"]Video 1[/ame], [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__mH8Xa7Sto"]Video 2[/ame]


----------



## Deskjob

*about shields*

omfg


----------



## Myth and Legend

Deskjob said:
			
		

> omfg



Deskjob care to elaborate? My point was that unless it's a buckler one can't use his shield hand for much else than holding and using the shield. Oh, and that's NOT ME by the way in case you freaked out or something


----------



## Galphanore

What happens when a kingdom, Norden for instance, decides that large scale mining is a good idea? You get someone like Damon Valnor, a Druidic Avenger walking into a recruitment center in Pesh and signing up. (More detail and stats to come if you're Ok with that variant


----------



## Myth and Legend

Galphanore said:
			
		

> What happens when a kingdom, Norden for instance, decides that large scale mining is a good idea? You get someone like Damon Valnor, a Druidic Avenger walking into a recruitment center in Pesh and signing up. (More detail and stats to come if you're Ok with that variant



 Well then, it's a very good concept IMO!  However, I would thnk that Norden is part of the Five Kingdoms alliance veruss the threat of the Treylor Empire.

Now one could say that for example, the Treylor Empire is deforesting acres and acres of forests to build siege weapons... So the sooner they are defeated the sooner the unchecked logging will stop.


----------



## HolyMan

*Whoa*

That was to kool no time to post(because i was watching the shield and shield and spear vids) but will be back after work around 8pm est later


----------



## Galphanore

Myth and Legend said:


> Well then, it's a very good concept IMO!  However, I would thnk that Norden is part of the Five Kingdoms alliance veruss the threat of the Treylor Empire.
> 
> Now one could say that for example, the Treylor Empire is deforesting acres and acres of forests to build siege weapons... So the sooner they are defeated the sooner the unchecked logging will stop.



Woops, works for me. I had only skimmed the game info when I wrote that  I'll put him together and toss him into the RG shortly. More backstory to come once I finish the 16 pages of info


----------



## Galphanore

Okie : http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/257898-rg-off-war.html#post4858784 Let me know what you think. It alright if I trade Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex) for Endurance? Seems a better fit with his background. Also, could I have a -2 penalty to non-wooden weapons and a +2 bonus to wooden weapons for my Craft (Weaponmaking) skill?


----------



## HolyMan

*A little help???*

does anyone know in which group i could start a new thread that would be called:

*THE GREATEST POST EVER!!!!! IS HERE...*

And then in the first post I would post a link to the shields post above.

Just where do you put it????


----------



## Galphanore

HolyMan said:


> does anyone know in which group i could start a new thread that would be called:
> 
> *THE GREATEST POST EVER!!!!! IS HERE...*
> 
> And then in the first post I would post a link to the shields post above.
> 
> Just where do you put it????



Right here : General RPG Discussion - EN World D&D / RPG News


----------



## HolyMan

*welcome aboard Galphanore*

here are a few things I found in your character sheet that need a little 
corrections need marked in red



		Code:
	

Name: Damon Valnor                      Age: 26
Class: Druidic Avenger                  Height: 6'4"
Race:  Human                            Eyes: Gray
Gender: M                               Hair: Red
Alignment: CN                           Skin: Tanned
Deity: none
 
Str: 16 +3 (10p.)               Level: 1          XP: 0
Dex: 16 +2 (10p.)               BAB: +0           HP: 10 (1d8+2)
Con: 14 +2 (06p.)               Grapple: +3       Dmg Red: 0/0
Int: 10 +0 (02p.)               Speed: 40' [COLOR=red](30')[/COLOR]  Spell Res: 0
Wis: 14 +2 (06p.)               Init: +3          Spell Save: n/a[COLOR=red]12+sp lvl[/COLOR]
Cha: 9  +0 [COLOR=red](-1)[/COLOR](01p.)           ACP: -3           Spell Fail: n/a
 
                        Base   Armor     Shld    Dex    DB    Nat   Misc Total
Armor:                10      +3         +0      +3     +0    +0     +0    16
Touch: 12            Flatfooted: 16
 
                      Base   Mod   Misc   Total
Fort:                  2      +2      0       +4
Ref:                   0      +3      0       +2
Will:                  2      +2      0       +4
 
Weapon                      Attack      Damage    Critical   Range
Shortspear                    +3            1d6+3     20/x2
Shortspear(Thrown)            +3            1d6+3     20/x2     20'
Spear                         +3            1d8+4     20/x3
Spear (Thrown)                +3            1d8+3     20/x3     20'
[COLOR=red]Club (melee)                  +3            1d6+4     20/x2     [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]Club(thrown)                  +3            1d6+3     20/x2     10'   [/COLOR]
Club, Shillelagh              +4            2d5+5[COLOR=red](1d8+5)[/COLOR]     20/x2
[COLOR=red]Club, Shillelagh(thrown)      +4            1d8+4      20/x2    10'[/COLOR]
 
 
Languages: Common, Druidic
 
Feats: Self-Sufficient,  Track,  Run,  Endurance
[COLOR=red]You may swap endurance for nature sense but[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]you have them both listed and the +2's in your skills?[/COLOR]
 
Class Abilities :  Rage 1/day, Fast Movement, Nature Sense, 
                   Wild Empathy (-4 Penalty)
                   [COLOR=red]Please list armor and wepon prof or link[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]         Druid/Druid Avenger here to find class abilities[/COLOR]
 
Skill Points: 28                                   Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                         Ranks    Mod    Misc    Total
Concentration                    4       +2       +0       +6
Intimidate                       4        +0      -1 [COLOR=red](-1 under Mod)[/COLOR]      +3
Knowledge (Nature)               4        +0      +2       +6
Listen                           4        +2      [COLOR=red]+0[/COLOR]       +6
Spot                             4        +2      +[COLOR=red]0[/COLOR]       +6
Survival                         4        +2      +4       +10
Craft (Weaponsmithing)           4         +0     +0        +4
[COLOR=red]Heal                             0        +2      +2        +4[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]You may take the -2/metal +2/wooden but should list seperate[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]Craft(W.S.-metal)            4       +0       -2      +2   like that :)[/COLOR]
 
Equipment:                            Cost   Weight
Hide                                    15 gp     25 lb
Spear x 3                                6 gp     18 lb
Shortspear x 3                           3 gp       9 lb
Club                                     0 gp       3 lb
Backpack                                 2 gp       2 lb
Bedroll                                  1 sp       5 lb
Waterskin                                1 gp       4 lb
Beltpouch            [COLOR=red](cost 1gp)[/COLOR]          2 gp       .5 lb  
Signet ring                              5 gp       0 lb
Explorer’s Outfit                        [COLOR=red]0 gp       0 lb[/COLOR]
 
Total Weight: 64 lb           Money: 18gp 35sp 40cp
                   [COLOR=red]have you at       16gp  9sp[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]if you made a craft roll please post it[/COLOR]
                                 Lgt    Med  Hvy   Lift[COLOR=red]O.H./O.G.[/COLOR]Push
Max Weight:                76    153     230    230[COLOR=red]/460[/COLOR]    460
 
[COLOR=red]Please list the Spells per day only [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]post memorized spells in with your first character post in the IC[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]incase you cgange mind after reading through posts[/COLOR]
Memorized Spells:
Level 0 (3 Spells)
 Create Water
 Create Water
 Know Direction
Level 1 (2 Spells)
 Shillelagh
 Goodberry

 
OK think that is it will go back over it before your first mission.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok thanks Galphanore hmmm looks like i need to edit that above post to make it neater lol

And that new thread is here

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/259001-greatest-post-ever-here.html

Hope everyone in enworld gets to see it and wait till I figure out how to take pictures of combats with my webcam no more stupid 2-d maps hah!!


----------



## Galphanore

HolyMan said:


> OK think that is it will go back over it before your first mission.



Ok, made those changes. Here's the craft roll : It would be a 9 instead of a 7 if he was doing wood weapons, but either way all he made was scraps.[sblock=Initial Craft Roll]1d20+4 → [3,4] = (7), Link[/sblock]



HolyMan said:


> Ok thanks Galphanore hmmm looks like i need to edit that above post to make it neater lol



Yeah, because of the odd formating the only way to get it to look right is to quote it and then copy it. Either way, it should be all fixed up. Including the removal of the effects and listing of nature sense. Hope you don't mind, but I had Damon wonder into the camp in the http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258495-off-war-ic-2.html thread.


----------



## Deskjob

*Galphanore's 1st post.*

That was probably the slickest first post I ever saw.  Walk in, grab food, and off we go...  Not one word spoken.  Wery nice, wery nice.


----------



## Galphanore

Deskjob said:


> That was probably the slickest first post I ever saw.  Walk in, grab food, and off we go...  Not one word spoken.  Wery nice, wery nice.



Thanks. Kinda expecting someone to say something about that IC too


----------



## HolyMan

No problems this end I haven't been to the IC yet but I saw you posted there so I wanted to getthe character twinked. recheck above post i had to change due to wielding a weapon two-handed

Will stop by the RG see what you got because i think craft(w.s.-wood) should be 1D20 + 6 but you rolled 1d20 + 4 

TO: deskjob wanted to tell you not to waste all your 20's at Invisible Castle on skill checks and initative save some for combat lol

and your edit send fixed spelling guess you wanted to change the very very right


----------



## Galphanore

HolyMan said:


> No problems this end I haven't been to the IC yet but I saw you posted there so I wanted to getthe character twinked. recheck above post i had to change due to wielding a weapon two-handed
> 
> Will stop by the RG see what you got because i think craft(w.s.-wood) should be 1D20 + 6 but you rolled 1d20 + 4
> 
> TO: deskjob wanted to tell you not to waste all your 20's at Invisible Castle on skill checks and initative save some for combat lol
> 
> and your edit send fixed spelling guess you wanted to change the very very right



Added those last couple fixes, and yes, I rolled d20+4 (Rolled it before I thought of the whole wood/metal thing)  With the original roll and the new mod the total would be 9. Oh, and HolyMan? Can Damon have noticed the signs of the passage of the other group as he was heading into camp? His roll if you want one for that :
[sblock=Survival Check]1d20+8 → [7,8] = (15) Link[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

O.k. checked posts both Rg and IC wonder if you made changes before or after I was there?

here's what I saw 

Ref total should be +3    (I missed this from the original posting lol)

club damage is 1d6 and range is 10'

Craft you have +2/-2 in Mod spot should be in Misc spot

new total for gold (with craft check=9) should be 20gp 14 sp

in abilities put (1d20-4) after Wild empahty it will change as you lvl up and maybe gain a better Charima Mod

Yep I like the post and nope you can't tell where the PC's are if you got anywhere near them you would have head them first but,

Your roll is good enough to know that there is a large pack of wolves out in the forest and nobody should really be out there

Going to post in IC and search in the dark....


----------



## Galphanore

HolyMan said:


> O.k. checked posts both Rg and IC wonder if you made changes before or after I was there?
> 
> here's what I saw
> 
> Ref total should be +3    (I missed this from the original posting lol)
> 
> club damage is 1d6 and range is 10'
> 
> Craft you have +2/-2 in Mod spot should be in Misc spot
> 
> new total for gold (with craft check=9) should be 20gp 14 sp
> 
> in abilities put (1d20-4) after Wild empahty it will change as you lvl up and maybe gain a better Charima Mod
> 
> Yep I like the post and nope you can't tell where the PC's are if you got anywhere near them you would have head them first but,
> 
> Your roll is good enough to know that there is a large pack of wolves out in the forest and nobody should really be out there
> 
> Going to post in IC and search in the dark....



You checked both before and after  All those are fixed now. Good to know about the wolves. BTW, your fix shows the Club, Shillelagh having 1d8 damage but the Shillelagh Spell increase the effective size category by two, not one. Should be 2d6. Also, the spell description says that the improvement is no longer in effect if it is not wielded by me, which I read as it not working if I throw it. Is that so or is throwing it still counted as "Wielding"?


----------



## HolyMan

Galphanore said:


> You checked both before and after  All those are fixed now. Good to know about the wolves. BTW, your fix shows the Club, Shillelagh having 1d8 damage but the Shillelagh Spell increase the effective size category by two, not one. Should be 2d6. Also, the spell description says that the improvement is no longer in effect if it is not wielded by me, which I read as it not working if I throw it. Is that so or is throwing it still counted as "Wielding"?




hmmm yep I got that damage wrong that was for small good catch and i would ask lora to cast enlarge person on you and see what that does to your Shillelagh???? lol anothe ruling it aint easy being green or the DM 

Ruling for Shillelagh Spell:

 Since the intent of wielding is to "use to do damage to an adversary" then the intent behind the throw would be the same to do damage and i would say that it keeps the effect till after the results of the attack are note (hit/miss and damage) returning to normal after it has done what you "wield it " for

It for me folks off to bed and will check back in before I head to work. Nite


----------



## Galphanore

HolyMan said:


> hmmm yep I got that damage wrong that was for small good catch and i would ask lora to cast enlarge person on you and see what that does to your Shillelagh???? lol anothe ruling it aint easy being green or the DM
> 
> Ruling for Shillelagh Spell:
> 
> Since the intent of wielding is to "use to do damage to an adversary" then the intent behind the throw would be the same to do damage and i would say that it keeps the effect till after the results of the attack are note (hit/miss and damage) returning to normal after it has done what you "wield it " for
> 
> It for me folks off to bed and will check back in before I head to work. Nite



Yep  Enlarge person + Shillelagh would treat it as Gargantuan and up it to 3d6, plus enlarge person would increase my str to 18. Combine that with Rage and it hits 22, so the damage would be 3d6+10 if wielded two-handed. Do I have a guess as to the size of the wolf pack beyond just "large"?


----------



## Myth and Legend

Regarding my shields post - glad you enjoyed it! I am on a crusade to educate gamers and roleplayers on real medieval weapons, fighting, armies etc. Their perceptions have been vastly twisted by games and DnD.. For example - Full Plate is heavy and one can't mount his horse without the aid of pulleys and ropes... A Zweihander or Claymore weighs 15 pounds.. etc. nonsense that has been portrayed in games and movies.

So far it has been very very hard  probably the best source of online information is the ARMA website, especially the forums. BTW there i saw a poster do very good research on real world shillelagh and the way one wields them - he went to Ireland and everything.

Now then, regarding Lora casting Enlarge Person - she *could*... But good luck making friends with the girl


----------



## Galphanore

Myth and Legend said:


> Regarding my shields post - glad you enjoyed it! I am on a crusade to educate gamers and roleplayers on real medieval weapons, fighting, armies etc. Their perceptions have been vastly twisted by games and DnD.. For example - Full Plate is heavy and one can't mount his horse without the aid of pulleys and ropes... A Zweihander or Claymore weighs 15 pounds.. etc. nonsense that has been portrayed in games and movies.
> 
> So far it has been very very hard  probably the best source of online information is the ARMA website, especially the forums. BTW there i saw a poster do very good research on real world shillelagh and the way one wields them - he went to Ireland and everything.
> 
> Now then, regarding Lora casting Enlarge Person - she *could*... But good luck making friends with the girl



Nice, reading it right now : Shillelagh Tread, almost looks like they fight with it using both quarterstaff moves and club moves and some others specifically used by it, kinda cool.


----------



## Galphanore

That's just cool, my next char is gonna have to be some kinda Irish stick fighter. Unfortunately it's not Damon's style, and he wouldn't have really had a chance to learn it.


----------



## Deskjob

*Invisible Castle*

[sblock=HolyMan]Dude, sorry about those d20's.  I seriously hate 20's.  I know it looks fishy and all...  But, seriously, thats totally legit.  Why would I even fake a 20 for intv.  Anyway, my bad.  Its just bad luck.  Freakin' 20s.  Freakin' A.[/sblock]


----------



## ghostcat

Sorry, I was a bit tardy, I have only just spotted your 7th July comments. 

CS updated as requested.

The story of the shield is that Trinham's training was interrupted before he was taught how to use a shield. However, as he had already been issued with his shield he couldn't leave it behind. He will accidently lose it when the opportunity presents itself. Until then he will just carry it around.


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> Sorry, I was a bit tardy, I have only just spotted your 7th July comments.
> 
> CS updated as requested.
> 
> The story of the shield is that Trinham's training was interrupted before he was taught how to use a shield. However, as he had already been issued with his shield he couldn't leave it behind. He will accidently lose it when the opportunity presents itself. Until then he will just carry it around.




I remember that boy how long/pages ago was that lol I am getting old

EDIT: And it looks like I have another NPC poster added to the RG lol


----------



## HolyMan

Deskjob said:


> [sblock=HolyMan]Dude, sorry about those d20's. I seriously hate 20's. I know it looks fishy and all... But, seriously, thats totally legit. Why would I even fake a 20 for intv. Anyway, my bad. Its just bad luck. Freakin' 20s. Freakin' A.[/sblock]




I'm not worried about cheating I 'm worried about you using up all your luck before the wolves attack. those 20's could have came in handy.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Regarding the map, have you tried uploading it to sites like imageshack.us, tinypic etc? Alternatively, you can upload it to picnik.com and reduce the size. As a last resort, send it to mythandlegend@abv.bg and i'll put it up for you!

DMs in these forums usually make ASCII maps using the text in the forums here, example:

=====================
===C=================
=======A=============
============+========
==========++=========
=======U*============

-------------------------------
C - Hero #1
A - Villain
U - Hero #2
* - Tree
+ - Large rock


----------



## Theroc

Myth, I need to find a way to give you+infinite XP.

>.>

<.<

I've seen so many roleplayers who really, really don't know how historical combat goes... and it's dismaying.  Not that I am an expert by any stretch, but I did take a fencing class until I lost my ability to reach the location.

Anyways, Holyman, sorry about the delay, if ya'll didn't see my reduced activity thread... I got royally nuked by a virus, and my own PC is unusable... borrowing my mother's.  Will try to reply at least once a week if not more... but no promises.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Myth, I need to find a way to give you+infinite XP.
> 
> >.>
> 
> <.<
> 
> I've seen so many roleplayers who really, really don't know how historical combat goes... and it's dismaying. Not that I am an expert by any stretch, but I did take a fencing class until I lost my ability to reach the location.
> 
> Anyways, Holyman, sorry about the delay, if ya'll didn't see my reduced activity thread... I got royally nuked by a virus, and my own PC is unusable... borrowing my mother's. Will try to reply at least once a week if not more... but no promises.




Hey no problem Theroc this is pbp and is not instanteous lol so we go with the flow and sometimes its slow sometimes fast post when u can i like good post its quality not quantity

Thanks for the sites will check them out tonight


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Theroc read your post in the IC 

Maybe the RNGs want you to ROLE play instead of ROLL play lol


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Hey Theroc read your post in the IC
> 
> Maybe the RNGs want you to ROLE play instead of ROLL play lol





But you prompted the roll!  >.<!  lol

I always have horrible luck with the dice, lol


----------



## Theroc

Holyman, I'm confused, IC has no space for campaign when rolling initiative and whatnot... what are you asking for?


----------



## HolyMan

Your right IC has no campagin but will have encounters at certain times.

for this one list it as Encounter1 OtW

so i can look up rolls easily


----------



## HolyMan

*catching up*

To Deskjob: your up first in the Search in the Dark thread currently prone and in total defense till you change that. Two wolves close enough to threaten you growl nearby.

To Galphanore: Since you posted yourself out of the IC thread please post yourself into the Search in the Dark thread (running through the woods) You should be able to pick up the parties trail easily as Martomum was marking it and the others took no care as they moved forward. Will need Init rolled and first run check [DC 10 Con check] don't forget endurance bonus

All for now  later


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Your right IC has no campagin but will have encounters at certain times.
> 
> for this one list it as Encounter1 OtW
> 
> so i can look up rolls easily




IC does not display a section for campaigns.  IC does not display a section for Encounters.  I do not have an account with IC... >.>

How do you want me to list it?


----------



## HolyMan

???? Invisible Castle ????

when u click roll dice it asks for character name and campaign

Put Aidan in the character name and Encounter1 OtW in the campaign slot

then IC will start a page listing all rolls for Encounter1 OtW


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> ???? Invisible Castle ????
> 
> when u click roll dice it asks for character name and campaign
> 
> Put Aidan in the character name and Encounter1 OtW in the campaign slot
> 
> then IC will start a page listing all rolls for Encounter1 OtW





IC does not ask me for campaign.  It tells me if I was signed in (as in, had a membership) that IC would ask me for campaign.


----------



## ghostcat

HM how do you handle combat? Do we all post our Round 3 actions and you arbitrate or do you want us to post in Init. order?


----------



## HolyMan

good question ghostcat 

been thinking we should go init order because you may want to know what someone did ahead of you but sometimes what you decide may not be affected by anyone else so you could list either:

a) list your actions with a if this happens i do this or 
b) we wait to do them in order

any suggestions ?/


----------



## ghostcat

I belive (a) is best as it keeps things moving., especially with people in different timezones. That said, I'm flexible and am happy to go either way.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok lets go with people posting their actions by round and NOT waiting on others but make sure to have alternate actions for the round posted and be clear list move/standard/ or a full round please 

i know the map is not great will try to keep peoples locations clear from here on out till i find something that works


----------



## Theroc

Holyman, since I'm not an Invisible Castle member, the Campaign section is not something I can use.  Should I simply add that portion to Aidan's name?


----------



## HolyMan

hmmm no don't mess up the name lookup go ahead and keep it blank if you have to

you know registration is free/unless it s different where u are

not sure new to this too


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> hmmm no don't mess up the name lookup go ahead and keep it blank if you have to
> 
> you know registration is free/unless it s different where u are
> 
> not sure new to this too




I'm trying to avoid signing up to every site I come across... >.>

Especially since my dad will be paranoid since the whole virus thing crashing my own computer... I'm operating off of his own PC atm. (I switch between using hers or his, depending who's online.)

edit: So, just list Aidan's name then?


----------



## HolyMan

understood- go ahead roll init and post surprise round actions in IC

we shouldn t need to roll to much this encounter least not enough that we have to look up lot of them

edit; yep just name


----------



## Theroc

Posted... question though: Does 'Intimidate' cost any kind of action for an interaction task rather than a demoralize in combat thing?  If so, I'd like to throw an intimidate check at the guy.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Posted... question though: Does 'Intimidate' cost any kind of action for an interaction task rather than a demoralize in combat thing? If so, I'd like to throw an intimidate check at the guy.




action varies: it says takes one min to change someones attitude but that is ten rounds so i would say make check and roleplay

 the "combat" may end after first round and i 'll have the check/your actions to base when to apply the effect


----------



## Galphanore

1d20+3 → [10,3] = (13)
Roll Lookup
Intimidate rollfor searching in the dark.


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM I suggest you do not show us the enemy stats up until it's time to post them in the RG (as in, NPC is dead).

Also.. holy CRAP! He is a level 5 fighter? How the hell are we supposed to beat that?


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> HM I suggest you do not show us the enemy stats up until it's time to post them in the RG (as in, NPC is dead).
> 
> Also.. holy CRAP! He is a level 5 fighter? How the hell are we supposed to beat that?




LOL your not suppose to beat him just "survive" the encounter and I thought that posting the basic stats would help with peoples post if you roll and don't know if you hit you cant post it or if you kill something you can"t go ahead and roll your cleave and post your awesome prowess.

 I know you don't have cleave yet but it would be kool to see you enlarge yourself and then take that huge glavie through a couple skulls 

And I want you the player to be scared of this guy so you can transfer that into your posting and sofar everyone is doing great!! I'm having fun


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience July1st-15th*



		Code:
	

Player                          XP
Theroc                        185
ghostcat                      180
Deskjob                       210
Myth and Legend               220
Erwinfoxjj                    185
Galphanore                    145

 
I will add this to the xp that is in th RG already so only the total will be there. And has anyone heard from wysiwyg????


----------



## Erwinfoxjj

HolyMan said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> Player                          XP
> Theroc                        185
> ghostcat                      180
> Deskjob                       210
> Myth and Legend               220
> Erwinfoxjj                    185
> Galphanore                    145
> 
> 
> I will add this to the xp that is in th RG already so only the total will be there. And has anyone heard from wysiwyg????




Hey brother, I got conflicting XP amounts. In RG it is 190, but here it says 185. I am just trying to figure it out so I can get it right on my sheet. Thanks man.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Yes, Lora also got +5 XP than what i thought she would have (20 base, 220 awarded here). Also, full name is Loreen not Lorenn


----------



## Deskjob

*Dont read this.  (That means you!)*

Yeah, I just heard from wysiwyg.  He said: "Deskjob, your such a swell guy.  I think I am going to give you this +5 vorpal longsword for free."  So I says: "Gee, thanks old buddy.  Its just what I wanted."  So he says:  "Anytime, ol' buddy ol' pal."  So I says: "Goly gee wysiwyg I wish I could give you something?" ...(Are you still reading this absurd post?), (Please stop!)...    So he says: "Dont even mention it.  What are friends for, right?"  So the villian says: "If it wasn't for you darn kids I would have gotten away with it too." ...(Ok, if you made it here then shame on you!  I said stop reading.)...    And the dog says: "Scooby Dooby Doo!!!"  Then everybody had a good laugh.  Ha ha ha.  The End.

(Boy, I sure could go for a sandwich right now. Can't you?)


----------



## Galphanore

Deskjob said:


> (Boy, I sure could go for a sandwich right now. Can't you?)



Me too, I think I'll buy one.


----------



## HolyMan

sorry i ve been away looks like you've had fun without me but got my connection problems solved 

Deskjob: keep on keepin on  

Myth and Legend: Soory about the name I never was anygood with names well get better promise and everyone got 5 xp for posting characters in RG
so you started with 25 i believe

Ewrinfoxjj: XP posted in RG is total the xp posted here is just what you have gotten since July 1 so if i give you 100 xp here on Aug 1 you would have 290 in RG I told u that at work 

Theroc: sorry about the big fighter but you'll get a chance at him again one day promise 

ghostcat & Galphnore: just wanted to say hey and not leave you guys out


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> sorry i ve been away looks like you've had fun without me but got my connection problems solved
> 
> Deskjob: keep on keepin on
> 
> Myth and Legend: Soory about the name I never was anygood with names well get better promise and everyone got 5 xp for posting characters in RG
> so you started with 25 i believe
> 
> Ewrinfoxjj: XP posted in RG is total the xp posted here is just what you have gotten since July 1 so if i give you 100 xp here on Aug 1 you would have 290 in RG I told u that at work
> 
> Theroc: sorry about the big fighter but you'll get a chance at him again one day promise
> 
> ghostcat & Galphnore: just wanted to say hey and not leave you guys out




No worries, Aidan will definitely relish a chance to teach the man manners later, if provoked again.  He wouldn't just beat him up in revenge though.  He was mostly trying to protect Lora more than anything.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> No worries, Aidan will definitely relish a chance to teach the man manners later, if provoked again. He wouldn't just beat him up in revenge though. He was mostly trying to protect Lora more than anything.




was thinking you might meet him again in a little circle 

that reminds me ghostcat would like to use your double post in the RG for antagonist/villian NPCs if ok with you


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> was thinking you might meet him again in a little circle




Works for me.


----------



## HolyMan

*Finally*

OMG

finally on anyone else part of the allowed 3,000 posters man this sucks
here's my e-mail if you need to get in touch jakeb2772 yahoo.com
add the @ anyone else out there will stat up right away if you are

HM


----------



## Galphanore

Yep, this officially blows. All games have ground to a halt.


----------



## Theroc

Yeah, Enworld seems really bad of late... I should be more active around Sunday, should Enworld be working, lol


----------



## HolyMan

Seems to be getting better i can post and move to different threads without getting the boot

we lost Deskjob need to know who else is still willing to play...

Roll Call (Damon's turn in Search and Adain's in OtW)

heres hoping we are back in busniess


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Seems to be getting better i can post and move to different threads without getting the boot
> 
> we lost Deskjob need to know who else is still willing to play...
> 
> Roll Call (Damon's turn in Search and Adain's in OtW)
> 
> heres hoping we are back in busniess




I posted as Aidan, then Myth posted as Loreen, and now I'm to post again?  We skipping the old man this round?


----------



## HolyMan

*To Theroc*

after 5 boots
8 this link appears to be brokens'
and twice i had a reply and sent but it didn't go through
this the third time-- it must be a charm lol

Answer: I believe Myth and Lengend's character was talking to your character and I was just standing back to watch the interaction can't an old man(aka fallon) have his fun lol

   -HM


----------



## Galphanore

Trying to post in search right now, it's "Loading".


----------



## Galphanore

Trying to post in search right now, it's "Loading".


----------



## HolyMan

yes I think that is the worst 

finally getting to EnWorld
Finally getting to the thread 
and finally writing a reply
and then it doesn't make it 

To quote a legend "URGHHHH!!!!" - Charlie Brown


----------



## Galphanore

Took five tries to get a reply through.


----------



## HolyMan

wow twice it is a good day 
lets see if this one makes it three posts

Great shot Galphnore forgot your character was still bezerk when did that happen two weeks ago??? man he can hold a grudge lol

Ghostcat your character is up and we could end the round great work


----------



## Galphanore

Hehe, yeah. Two weeks, two rounds same thing here  He's enraged for another 5 rounds after this one ends. Not that I think the wolves will last much longer.


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> wow twice it is a good day
> lets see if this one makes it three posts
> 
> Great shot Galphnore forgot your character was still bezerk when did that happen two weeks ago??? man he can hold a grudge lol
> 
> Ghostcat your character is up and we could end the round great work



Posted and missed (boo) on 23rd July (post 60). I haven't seen a move from the doggies since, so assume its still valid. 

Been in a non-US timezone means that the site is just usable. Still as slow as old boots though.


----------



## Theroc

~knocks on wood.~  East Coast USA here, and I'm not having too many problems, besides ENWORLD being mad slow, I can still get in and do stuff, it just takes like 5-10 minutes to load.

And Holyman, I can post, I was just a bit confused, as I'm very accustomed to post order being maintained on other boards.  It being changed is fine, so long as I am informed.


----------



## HolyMan

Yes east coast here as well 

sorry to here it is really tough for you ghostcat any tougher here and i would pull out what little hair i have so it must be bad for you(thanks for catching my blunder in the Search thread I miss read your post it did say round 12 attack)

Theroc I don't know about any post order am I doing something wrong I am still new to EnWorld and haven't gotten half the experience I think I need on here. Let me know how you like things ran I started this thread because when I first got on here there was nothing and I read that you were spending the day refreshing your screen so I though might as well start something for both of us lol.


----------



## wysiwyg

A flash of blinding light leaves an open portal shimmering between two ancient trees. A figure steps out, and as soon as it appeared, the portal vanishes. The figure falls to the ground exhausted after a month of travel, unpacking, more unpacking, and dealing with bureaucrats. He waves a fist in the air, and screams at the top of his lungs "I'm back!"

Now to catch up on all the posts for which I've been absent...


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> to wysiwyg: i found alot we need to go over let me know as soon as you are ready to help go over some things thanks
> 
> missing my co-DM




Missing you too buddy. I just got to his one so far...about another 100 more posts to read.


----------



## wysiwyg

A +5 vorpal long sword from me !?!
How about a +4 flaming keen spoon of speed. "Oh that soup went down quickly, burning right through and exploding in your bowels. Take 39 points of internal flame damage plus 3 points for the spicy chilli plus another 9 for the bad taste of army grub." 

Holyman, I jut read everything including the game session to date. Where do we go from here?


----------



## HolyMan

*Welcome Back!!*

Good to see you wysiwyg, where to start how about you chose you want to be out in the woods with a search party then meet up with the guys out there or do you want to be in camp where I can get you introduced to the players there. 

I am flexible comes with the job.

And watch out giving the DM ideals like the +4 flaming keen spoon of speed (hmm... who would have that?) you may want to use your own utensils from now on lol

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> sorry to here it is really tough for you ghostcat any tougher here and i would pull out what little hair i have so it must be bad for you(thanks for catching my blunder in the Search thread I miss read your post it did say round 12 attack)




Its not that bad here, just slow. Having got used a sites coming up instantly, waiting 1 or 2 minutes seems glacial.  Multi-tasking helps, that's the user not the computer.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Socially awkward Wizardress reporting!


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Socially awkward Wizardress reporting!




And great to see you ML been busy with all the EnWorld down time??

Me all I have been doing is cursing at my computer though I know he is not at fault. Glad you stayed I really hope deskjob comes back.


and how does this look:

============
====M=======
====E=======
==========PIT
==========TRA
============
===========


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Theroc I don't know about any post order am I doing something wrong I am still new to EnWorld and haven't gotten half the experience I think I need on here. Let me know how you like things ran I started this thread because when I first got on here there was nothing and I read that you were spending the day refreshing your screen so I though might as well start something for both of us lol.




Not wrong, Holyman, just different.  It's not a problem... and it's something I got used to from other forums, actually.


----------



## HolyMan

To:Theroc 

thanks for letting me know, and to make things easier I will post that I'm waiting in the ooc from now on they may help(actually i am waiting to see if you join Loreen and follow Fallon)

To: Myth and Legend

keep on making friends and I'll make you raise Loreen's Charisma at 4th lvl lol  The cost of the cream is minimal maybe it is better to go with a kit (beauty kit= soap/herbs for smelling good/skin cream/and anything else) that way if you think of somehing else it could be in the kit 
beauty kit= 2gp 2lb and ten uses 
now that isn't carved in stone I can edit you know let me know if you have a different approach

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> To:Theroc
> 
> thanks for letting me know, and to make things easier I will post that I'm waiting in the ooc from now on they may help(actually i am waiting to see if you join Loreen and follow Fallon)




No problem here.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Replaced soap with beauty kit, removed one use from artisan's tools, removed 1 sheet of paper and 1 canvas. Also, well i can't say Lora will be friends with everyone. It's not in her character and she has a long way to go before she can open up to everyone she meets.


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Replaced soap with beauty kit, removed one use from artisan's tools, removed 1 sheet of paper and 1 canvas. Also, well i can't say Lora will be friends with everyone. It's not in her character and she has a long way to go before she can open up to everyone she meets.




a long way good but if it makes for the great post reading I'm getting then that's O.K. by me

 also never did get the full story about your brother was I suppose to take up the quest and have you searching or were you going to add as you go and when you found him i was to npc him??

is finding him something that was to be quick or take a while just wanting to know how you would like to develop that part


----------



## HolyMan

*I'm sad*

darn such a great day should never end
was posting like crazy everything was back up to speed but i go to go 

Work week starts tommorrow and got nothing done while I was on here having a blast. So everything up to date just need the following

1- Damon's check results- if IC is down use dice they use to work in the old days lol
2-wysiwyg choice of adventure
3- Ewrinfoxjj to give a shout out if he doesn't I'll talk to him at work

ok don't want to leave but I must  bye EnWorld here's hoping your all better


----------



## Galphanore

PMed the rolls. I used Knokret Dice Roller since IC is still down :-(


----------



## Theroc

So... just reduced activity Holyman?


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> So... just reduced activity Holyman?





not following sorry ...if your asking if I want you to reduce activity the answer is no

ah you mean me to reduce activity is that it I don't need that i need to stop staring at my account page and refreshing every 5 mins lol

I am really only dming Off to War and the side quest
trying to get into other games is the hard part


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> darn such a great day should never end
> was posting like crazy everything was back up to speed but i go to go
> 
> Work week starts tommorrow and got nothing done while I was on here having a blast. So everything up to date just need the following
> 
> 1- Damon's check results- if IC is down use dice they use to work in the old days lol
> 2-wysiwyg choice of adventure
> 3- Ewrinfoxjj to give a shout out if he doesn't I'll talk to him at work
> 
> ok don't want to leave but I must  bye EnWorld here's hoping your all better




I meant this, Holyman, lol.  Does this just mean your activity won't be quite as high?


----------



## HolyMan

Ah thats a negative... negative on that

 i just wanted to get everyone caught up

i will be checking:
a)in the morning before work
b)during break at work (we have wifi now)
c)and on all night after work while i do real world stuff lol

so as to catch all the people with different time zones


----------



## Myth and Legend

Well i added the beauty kit and removed the stuff that was needed for the forgery and portrait, i hope it's all good with you. Anyway Arthur is part of Lora's story and her initial motivation for leaving. Weather or not she finds him or what happens is up to you, i will react to the story the way Lora should at the level of her character development.


----------



## wysiwyg

Sorry my posts are not as frequent - there are still many issues that I have to take care of in my new home.

Place me in the woods. Have to go back to my character sheet and see what I'm playing (memory not as good as it used to be).

BTW, you mentioned that there was some issues you wanted to discuss with me.


----------



## HolyMan

HolyMan said:


> to wysiwyg: i found alot we need to go over let me know as soon as you are ready to help go over some things thanks
> 
> missing my co-DM




hmmm... can't remeber I was doing characters at the time so it must have something to do with that

and i don't care if you post once a year (ok i care a little ) just glad you are back and posting at all


----------



## HolyMan

*found it*

looking over Athos and saw he had Weapon Focus feat which plays to the character as he is going the kensi like route but is not allowed at 1st lvl(need BAB +1)

but if you changed it out for the bonus monk feat that would be ok as prerequs are not required but then you would be short one feat

I am counting light armor/shield prof as good for losing monk AC ability
you give up adding wis modifier to AC and the progression by lvl both 
I mean the wis bonus would be +2( equals shield) and progression goes to +4 (equals chain shirt)

so i think u need to pick a feat i think i was trying to be cryptic and foreboding like there was bad news when there wasn't


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> looking over Athos and saw he had Weapon Focus feat which plays to the character as he is going the kensi like route but is not allowed at 1st lvl(need BAB +1)
> 
> but if you changed it out for the bonus monk feat that would be ok as prerequs are not required but then you would be short one feat




I didn't even know the weapon focus has a requirement. I'll take it at a later level. To be replaced with Endurance.




HolyMan said:


> I am counting light armor/shield prof as good for losing monk AC ability
> you give up adding wis modifier to AC and the progression by lvl both
> I mean the wis bonus would be +2( equals shield) and progression goes to +4 (equals chain shirt)
> 
> so i think u need to pick a feat i think i was trying to be cryptic and foreboding like there was bad news when there wasn't




Also, I already gave up my 1st level bonus feat for shield proficiency. Replaced with Diehard.

Changed my PC.

On the note of armor. Since my PC was in the army before hand, could he gain some basic military gear (for free) - i.e, armour & weapons, backpack, etc.


----------



## HolyMan

wysiwyg Athos will just have to talk to Martomum (good luck) he's quartermaster 

and Athos is in the search party just spotted by the group so if you are ready you can post in Search in the Dark just make a quick post to subscribe if you like 

and don't worry I believe I can get you some gear just not till I have you fighting unarmed/unarmored first lol I gots to have some fun


----------



## wysiwyg

I'll do. PS: I PM'ed you.


----------



## HolyMan

In the Search in the Dark thread does anyone else want to post a ready action before I continue on ??


----------



## Galphanore

I'm good.


----------



## Theroc

Holyman, I just realized I'd never posted Aidan actually RETRIEVING his javelin.(After his encounter with the jerkoff)

Shall we assume he does(I would think it'd make sense he'd do it, but it slipped my mind in the RP), or shall we assume he forgot to? (in which case I'll need to earn money for a replacement, lol)


----------



## HolyMan

No I'm sure with the javelin sticking there in the ground he saw it and scooped it up, he was thinking of the weapon.

But Theroc who had work, dishes, laundry, grocery shopping, 5+ other games to check in on forgot it. LOL 

ok that isn't Theroc's list that's my to do list today 

I believe that your characters will remember things like that even if you don't so don't sweat if you think I'll say, "Hey, he doesn't have a weapon YOU forgot to go retrieve it.". You may have forgot but believe me your character was thinking hard on it.

Why you asking thinking of using it on those soilders? lol


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> No I'm sure with the javelin sticking there in the ground he saw it and scooped it up, he was thinking of the weapon.
> 
> But Theroc who had work, dishes, laundry, grocery shopping, 5+ other games to check in on forgot it. LOL
> 
> ok that isn't Theroc's list that's my to do list today
> 
> I believe that your characters will remember things like that even if you don't so don't sweat if you think I'll say, "Hey, he doesn't have a weapon YOU forgot to go retrieve it.". You may have forgot but believe me your character was thinking hard on it.
> 
> Why you asking thinking of using it on those soilders? lol




Hopefully not, but you never know, and I wanted to mention it while I was still thinking about it.

Also, well, around that time, it sounded a bit appropriate, though laundry is something I never have to worry about, just yet.  Everything else there... I have to do sometimes.


----------



## wysiwyg

Hi HM.

I think you misunderstood my last post in the Search in the Dark thread.

_Text in italic without quotes represent what my PC is thinking._

*"Bold text in italic and with quotes represent what my PC is saying."*

Just look at my last post and you'll see that Athos had already addressed Martomum.


----------



## HolyMan

Got you but to keep it clear do me a favor and post an action like walking into the other parties torch light or the like so i know where u are 

thought you were muttering to yourself I will edit my post asap


----------



## wysiwyg

Gotcha.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks buddy and hey i have a little project for you to work on 

ready for it now or should I wait 

also changed post in search


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> Thanks buddy and hey i have a little project for you to work on
> 
> ready for it now or should I wait
> 
> also changed post in search




Yip. I noticed. What do you have in mind?


----------



## HolyMan

Planning some massive combats envolving two armies now these won't be 1000's of men but will be big enough. So i want a kind of battlefield awarness rule and it can only be developed by being on the battlefield hard to practice this at home. Now some will be naturals (maybe a bonus feat) and some may need to develop it like a skill. But when all this fighting breaks around you and fireballs are flying I need to have a system for it. Oh and a fog of war type thing how far you can see and still tell what's going on.

We have time but want to get it out there. Maybe a new thread somewhere and get some feed back. If you go that route post me a link so I can put in my two cents.


----------



## wysiwyg

I see. Well I would imagine that in most fantasy/medieval battles the army commanders were probably not on the battle field but rather on some vantage point were the could see the bigger picture. They would then communicate with the battle-line officers via flag waving (different flags for different instructions) or some other means of liasons (swift horsemen for instance, trumpet sounds, etc). I am not sure how much awareness the regular troop had once engaged in battle. I would image it was very little. There was probably one person for each division that would intercept the instructions from the generals and communicate to his fellow troops on the field with him.


----------



## Myth and Legend

The commander usually stays with the cavalry reserve, ready to strike at the flanks, guard the rear or as a last resort, fill in a spot where the lines broke. Usually, generals/lords/kings avoided fighting themselves when they were middle aged or older, but as young men they often participated for glory and more often to raise troop morale. They did pick their fights though, if they could, and charged in after the enemy had been softened up.

Communication happened trough horns/fanfares, which were then interpreted by the lower ranking commanders and translated in to verbal orders, such as "advance" "charge" "retreat" etc. Flag waving was usually used for morale purposes more than anything else, as the large battle standards were very heavy and mounted on T shaped poles. Flag signals could be used when making a silent ambush or attack however.


----------



## HolyMan

I do wish to keep it close to historic but with D&D we all know that is hard.

The rule I'm looking for is a kind of awarness, hearing the horns, seeing the signals, looking at a group fighting and know which side is winning. The PC's will find themselves in a little group fight inside the main battle and need a kind of heads up type rule so they know whats going on. Latter I hope the PC's take on a commander/unit leader role or specialized troop type. The war verses the main body of Treylor is many many lvls away but skirmishes could happen.


----------



## wysiwyg

HolyMan said:


> I do wish to keep it close to historic but with D&D we all know that is hard.
> 
> The rule I'm looking for is a kind of awarness, hearing the horns, seeing the signals, looking at a group fighting and know which side is winning. The PC's will find themselves in a little group fight inside the main battle and need a kind of heads up type rule so they know whats going on. Latter I hope the PC's take on a commander/unit leader role or specialized troop type. The war verses the main body of Treylor is many many lvls away but skirmishes could happen.




If it's awareness, then why not just have a different usage/style for spot, listen or gather information.


----------



## HolyMan

My questions are what happens to your spot, listen and other type abilities when your in a 300x300 yard clearing with 250 other people who are yelling, casting, dying all around you. Oh and fireballs/lightning bolts are blasting and arrows be landing at your feet. And maybe a few summoned Dire Bears for good measure.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> My questions are what happens to your spot, listen and other type abilities when your in a 300x300 yard clearing with 250 other people who are yelling, casting, dying all around you. Oh and fireballs/lightning bolts are blasting and arrows be landing at your feet. And maybe a few summoned Dire Bears for good measure.




I think Aidan would be suffering from Shellshock.

Edit: Though I am sorely tempted to multi-class him Sorcerer later and go into Dragon Disciple, but not sure whether it'll end up fitting the story later or not.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc he is your character and this is our game we will make it fit in 

Shellshock that may be a new condition I have to put in thanks Theroc


----------



## Theroc

Yeah, I wish Warlocks qualified for the Dragon Disciple, but RAW they don't, though we could probably work it out if you wanted.  

If you wanna take a look and aren't familiar with the class, I could give you some of the info, or direct you to it at least.  I mentioned Warlock because I think it's a slightly easier class to work with than a Sorcerer(or I just am more used to them)


----------



## HolyMan

A 3.5 warlock?? I know they have them in 4e But remeber the customizing rules you may not need to take another class to get what it is you need to play a DD


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> A 3.5 warlock?? I know they have them in 4e But remeber the customizing rules you may not need to take another class to get what it is you need to play a DD




Yeah, Warlocks are in 3.5.  I like them, alot.  They use Invocations(similar to spells, usually slightly weaker in effect).  Basically, they don't have a limit to how many times they can use their abilities, but they aren't as strong or flexible as a caster generally.  There is information on them at Crystal Keep - D&D and d20 System under basic classes... Crystalkeep also has a list of MOST of the invocations a Warlock can learn(but not entirely all).

In anycase, the reason the Warlock can't qualify for the Dragon Disciple PrC is because Warlocks don't cast SPELLS, so they can't cast arcane spells.  (Now, if we changed it to allow Warlocks to qualify, then that'd simplify things greatly.)

I wasn't sure whether you'd allow it, so I figured I'd ask.

Edit: Granted, this is still a ways away.  I plan to take a good number of my altered Monk Levels before having him manifest any 'supernatural' powers.


----------



## HolyMan

By the way did you ever read my The Pixies and the baby post??

will check out then carefully over the weekend and make a decision

is that ok i have work starting tommorrow and need to make some money for these stupid real world bills


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> By the way did you ever read my The Pixies and the baby post??
> 
> will check out then carefully over the weekend and make a decision
> 
> is that ok i have work starting tommorrow and need to make some money for these stupid real world bills





No problem man, and if there's a problem, we can always work on it.  As I said, I plan on Aidan being primarily a melee guy, with a bit of magic oomph at the end... and I figured it'd tie decently, since I did say he had noble ties(just so distant it didn't matter politically).

Plenty of time to think and deliberate.


----------



## Myth and Legend

If Aidan goes for a warrior/mage hybrid he'd appeal much more to Lora (who is on that same path, but as an Int based caster)


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> If Aidan goes for a warrior/mage hybrid he'd appeal much more to Lora (who is on that same path, but as an Int based caster)




That's always a plus.  Not sure on the specifics, but hoping the lock/monk mix will be approved or tweaked slightly, as I think a Warlock has less issues with low CL.


----------



## HolyMan

Darn everyone is ready for me and i need to put things off till tomorrow night. Wish i could think coherntly enough to post tonight but 10 hrs at work and having to go back in 9 hrs means all I have time for is this one post about....

EXPERIENCE: 

Yes it will be the 15th soon and I'm behind do to The Great EnWorld Hiccup. So I will be doing experience for the past month instead of two weeks posting it and then giving both the Off to War and Search threads a bump. Need anything before that let me know I will be checking in before work and then again after and then it will be experience time.

Oh remember the experience posted here will be added to that in the RG so the RG has your total to date XP 

laters HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

I have read much of the post of Off To War and am immpressed and interested in joining

Would a) warforged or b) hexblade be allowed?

Where in the Five Kingdoms is the battle front?


----------



## HolyMan

High Frozen Messiah,

I am sorry buy this early on a warforge isn't allowed, actually everyone has to be human to start. But I may allow hexblade I have let in other non-phb classes but I will need a pdf or attachment of the class to check first. Or using the custom rules you could make your own hexblade like character.

Just let me know if you are interested and then post a concept.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience July 16th-Aug 14th*

I'm actually a day early should have waited but no biggie I promised you guys so I don't want to let you down. Special Note looks like Theroc and Myth and Legend got massive xp due to roleplaying posts and probably being only two players those in the Search in the Dark thread shouldn't worry I believe once you complete your mission (find the Outrider) that bonus experience will equal things out nicely.



		Code:
	

Shinn          140xp
Trinham        270xp
Loreen         425xp
Athos          140xp
Hralfgar       265xp
Aidan          395xp
Damon          285xp

 
remember this is not your totals you can find them in the RG it is just what you have earned since July 15th

will post tommorrow morning early


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> High Frozen Messiah,
> 
> I am sorry buy this early on a warforge isn't allowed, actually everyone has to be human to start. But I may allow hexblade I have let in other non-phb classes but I will need a pdf or attachment of the class to check first. Or using the custom rules you could make your own hexblade like character.
> 
> Just let me know if you are interested and then post a concept.




I am quite interested just after reading all of the action in the camp and not even touching on what is happening in the forest

It's fine I just found inspiration in a movie to play a a human rogue with empahasis on being efficient in combat and finding his targets outside of combat


----------



## HolyMan

Will then Welcome Aboard Frozen Messiah,(may I all you FM or Froze? We try to be informal here)

If you need anything please ask and pst your character here first so we can give him a looks over before putting in the RG

have fun making your character


HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*Hunter of the Damned*

alright, I took a little time to build this with the rules of swapping out (if fav. enemy is to strong I'll switch it for feats)

[sblock]
Base Class: Rogue
Changes:
Trapfinding -> Favourite enemy (undead or evil outsiders)
Disable Device -> Knowledge(religion) (if chose undead) or Knowledge(planes) (if chose evil outsider)
Appraise -> Spellcraft
Armor proficiency -> Wis to AC
[/sblock]

I'm hoping for a Van Helsing feel to this but being stealthy and using what is at hand to finish the mission

FM is fine


----------



## HolyMan

*Why Rogue as Base?*

Do you want to play using your skills or your sword to defeat the enemies of the Prime material Plane?

I must let you know that the ability to search for traps is not a fair swap for a potential +10,+2,+2,+2,+2 sorry

And I don't believe I could let someone have both sneak attack and favored enemy in the same class have to dual class for some mega damage like that.

Hey just let me know what you are thinking the concept is good lets just get a kool character together.

What does your stat buy look like first?

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Erwinfoxjj, was wondering why your sblocks didn't work in the Search in the dark? 

very weird 

WOW this was my 400th post was wondering when that would happen lol


----------



## HolyMan

I have just gone over the warlock class at Crystal Keep and as a DM my reaction of course is...

WHAT THE...?

So are there DM's out there allowing people to take a character with a ranged Touch attack that allows no save or SR, is UNLIMITED? in uses, does untyped damage so no resistance, can't be countered since it's not a spell, does a little less damage then a fireball but you don't get a save for 1/2 or get to use evasion, can detect magic at will?? why??
 will have DR 1/ cold iron 4 lvls before a Barbarian, fast healing and energy resistance at higher lvls when most needed

I need to know the first person who thought up this class...
Wish I could have been there when he said "yeah this is just as balanced as playing a wizard or sorcerer"

Will it should go without saying I don't care for Warlock but I am know to be brought around better give some good reasons for allowing this in Theroc

I'm all ears  eyes.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I have just gone over the warlock class at Crystal Keep and as a DM my reaction of course is...
> 
> WHAT THE...?
> 
> So are there DM's out there allowing people to take a character with a ranged Touch attack that allows no save or SR, is UNLIMITED? in uses, does untyped damage so no resistance, can't be countered since it's not a spell, does a little less damage then a fireball but you don't get a save for 1/2 or get to use evasion, can detect magic at will?? why??
> will have DR 1/ cold iron 4 lvls before a Barbarian, fast healing and energy resistance at higher lvls when most needed
> 
> I need to know the first person who thought up this class...
> Wish I could have been there when he said "yeah this is just as balanced as playing a wizard or sorcerer"
> 
> Will it should go without saying I don't care for Warlock but I am know to be brought around better give some good reasons for allowing this in Theroc
> 
> I'm all ears  eyes.




1. Eldritch Blasts All allow SR, EXCEPT the Greater Invocation "Vitriolic Blast" Which changes the Eldritch blasts damage from "Untyped" to "Acid"
2. Yes, it's unlimited, because a Warlock doesn't have the flexibility to use other spells.  
3. Barbarians have d12 Hit dice.  Warlocks have D6 hit dice.  Barbarians DR cannot be pentrated.
4. All Warlock invocations allow SR, except those that do not effect opposing monsters (As I recall)
5. Warlock's power comes in stamina, not sheer pwnage power.  Yes, they can fire Eldritch Blasts all day.  A Wizard can hit more opponents and do about the same damage to a group of opponents in a single encounter.  Warlock's just don't have the same concerns about resource management, Wizard/Sorcerers still have the big guns.
6. Eldritch Blast grows slower than a Rogue's Sneak Attacks.

Do these reasons help at all?

Edit:
7. There is a Cleric/Druid spell in the Spell Compendium called Lesser Vigor(there are higher versions of it as well)  here it is.


			
				Lesser Vigor said:
			
		

> VIGOR, LESSER
> Conjuration (Healing)
> Level: Cleric 1, druid 1
> Components: V, S
> Casting Time: 1 standard action
> Range: Touch
> Target: Living creature touched
> Duration: 10 rounds + 1 round/level
> (max 15 rounds)
> Saving Throw: Will negates
> (harmless)
> Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
> 
> The subject gains fast healing 1,
> enabling it to heal 1 hit point per round
> until the spell ends and automatically
> becoming stabilized if it begins dying
> from hit point loss during that time.
> Lesser vigor does not restore hit points
> lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation,
> nor does it allow a creature to
> regrow or attach lost body parts.
> The effects of multiple vigor spells
> do not stack; only the highest-level
> effect applies.




That spell along with it's greater versions allows Clerics to beat out the Warlock's 1/day Fast healing for a few minutes, by applying it to anyone they touch, as well as being able to cast it multiple times in a day(if they prepare it multiple times)

I've tossed up a thread in the 3rd Edition rules section about Warlocks being broken or not as well, to get additional input as to whether they are or not.  

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/260698-warlocks-being-broken.html


----------



## HolyMan

ok lets see:

1.reread says no save, SR applies (thought it was saying no save no SR), but how many monsters/NPCs have an SR score so your still really saying no way to avoid it is a range attack why no evasion or save for 1/2(i.e. dropping out of the way or ducking behind someone/something)
2.it said that at 20th lvl they will have 12 invocations but it didn't list invocations or their uses per day (please say that they are not unlimited)
3.And everyone buys that cold iron longsword to keep just in case but the question is why the DR I got no flavor at Crystal Keep I'm assuming that a warlock is demon/devils related due to eldrith energy and cold iron vulnerability(and you can roll a 1 on a d12 as easily as a d6)
4.I definetly need to look at the invocations before offical ruling.
5.Not going to sell me on the unlimited uses unless you know another ability a class has that is unlimited-- rage is limited, bard song is limited , turn undead, wild shape, stunning fist, smite evil, lay on hands heck even the warrior is limited by weapons carried Why is it not a number of times per day +con mod type ability???
6.But the Rogue is a limited to the circumstances (flanking,surprise) he doesn't get it all the time if they did it would be way over powered and they are not using a touch attack (Red Dragon Great Wyrm touch AC:2 normal AC:41)

just don't see why the class is the way it is guess i need some background/fluff for my brain to wrap around stats


----------



## Theroc

Holyman, did you catch my edit?  Theres a thread I started seeking additional information regarding the reasons Warlock isn't broken.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/260698-warlocks-being-broken.html

Edit: Fluffwise, the Warlocks are tapping into a Font of magical power the came from some supernatural source, be it Fey(faeries, Nymphs, etc..) or Infernal(Demons), or Abyssal(Devils), or what have you.  I planned to reskin it as Draconic heritage to tie into the Dragon Disciple PrC.

Also, the Invocations are generally slightly weaker than spells, but have longer durations(some 24hrs) and yes... there is no limit to how many times a Warlock may cast them.

At Crystalkeep, the Invocations list is down by the PDF's with the spell lists.


----------



## HolyMan

Just caught the edit and will head over to thread should we continue this there?

What page in the pdf are these unlimitless powers I still don't see them.

And that little spell is definitely over powered for lvl1 who would take any cure serious or criticals? or any really that would be the only spell needed you don't have to worry about rolling to low


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Just caught the edit and will head over to thread should we continue this there?




We can continue here if you'd like.




HolyMan said:


> What page in the pdf are these unlimitless powers I still don't see them.




When you're at the webpage, before you click any of the PDF files, scroll down to the spell Index Files(Not the general Index files, where you found the class itself), where it lists the different spells by class, or by alphabetical order, etc... at the bottom is one called 'Warlock Invocations'

It's its own separate listing.



HolyMan said:


> And that little spell is definitely over powered for lvl1 who would take any cure serious or criticals? or any really that would be the only spell needed you don't have to worry about rolling to low



Well, the Vigor spells would DEFINITELY be the new Cure X Wounds, but I do see a time where those would be more useful.  If the person ended up getting near death and a monster was still hitting the player, you'd need a more abrupt boost to prevent a finishing blow.  However, for generic healing, the Vigor Line is far superior.


----------



## HolyMan

I saw a vigor like spell in Pathfinder I was thinking of allowing but no cleric character as of yet

checking thanks was still under classes pdf it listed some spells there


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> checking thanks was still under classes pdf it listed some spells there




Yeah, it's slightly counter-intuitive, but I think they did that because they wanted to explain a bit more about invocations, and didn't wanna clutter the listing with the classes.


----------



## HolyMan

can't make sense of the invocations as the when you get them and which you can take is in one area and the spells themselves are massed together in the other maybe sleep will help

also looked over Dragon Disiple:

1.Don't like that it forces people to take sorcerer or bard(or gnome lol) everyone should have a way to get every PrC (but the cast arcane unprepared is limited)
2.I would give the option to take and gain the ability to cast an arcane spell without prep instead of a feat choice or other ability or change the prerequiste like I said all class should beable to follow a PrC its just some have an eaiser road
3.And it looks that as you advance you take on dragonlike apperance but says nothing about mannerisms or the effects of age and other fluff stuff I like

I am getting old at this D&D used to just like crawling in dungeons and beating monsters up for their magic and gold.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> can't make sense of the invocations as the when you get them and which you can take is in one area and the spells themselves are massed together in the other maybe sleep will help
> 
> also looked over Dragon Disiple:
> 
> 1.Don't like that it forces people to take sorcerer or bard(or gnome lol) everyone should have a way to get every PrC (but the cast arcane unprepared is limited)
> 2.I would give the option to take and gain the ability to cast an arcane spell without prep instead of a feat choice or other ability or change the prerequiste like I said all class should beable to follow a PrC its just some have an eaiser road
> 3.And it looks that as you advance you take on dragonlike apperance but says nothing about mannerisms or the effects of age and other fluff stuff I like
> 
> I am getting old at this D&D used to just like crawling in dungeons and beating monsters up for their magic and gold.




1. I don't like that either, which was why I was hoping that it could be made compatible with the Warlock class.
2. That could work too, but a single spell once a day wouldn't really be worth a feat.
3. You're right, it doesn't.  I think that's my job to determine how it will affect my character (which will depend largely how the slow changes will affect those around Aidan, how they respond to him).

lol, well, I'm fine with that too, but getting stronger and doing cool things is part of my fun too.


----------



## HolyMan

Was not thinking a feat swap for a spell once per day but more like:

1+ cha/int/wis modifier per day caster lvl equals 1/4 your character lvl unless you have the spell on a class spell list then equals 1/2 your character lvl

Then when you get dragon disciple you could with the bonus spell effect:
a.Get an extra casting/day of a spell known or
b.Gain a new spell at once per day( no modifier for this new spell)

you gain limited casting which is ok from a feat/ability swap about the same depends on ability of course

oh and can't wait for the posts as Aidan changes:
Martomum: "Taught I's saw ye clip 'dem nails yesterdays? Why's the so longs again today?"

LOL will diffently be fun


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Hey Erwinfoxjj, was wondering why your sblocks didn't work in the Search in the dark?
> 
> very weird
> 
> WOW this was my 400th post was wondering when that would happen lol




Because he used a backslash \ instead of a forward slash /


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Do you want to play using your skills or your sword to defeat the enemies of the Prime material Plane?
> 
> I must let you know that the ability to search for traps is not a fair swap for a potential +10,+2,+2,+2,+2 sorry
> 
> And I don't believe I could let someone have both sneak attack and favored enemy in the same class have to dual class for some mega damage like that.
> 
> Hey just let me know what you are thinking the concept is good lets just get a kool character together.
> 
> What does your stat buy look like first?
> 
> HM




After reading what your ruling was on this I see that you are right but are all the other swaps alright?

What if trapfinding was swapped for the ability to sneak attack undead? or detect evil?

Here are my stats:

STR:11
DEX:14
CON:11
INT:15
WIS:16
CHA:13

I feel a more skilled based approach to this character, something like a trained group of inflitrators who can rat out evil within society.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Frozen Messiah have you checked the Hunter of the Dead PRC from Complete Warrior? It's what you are looking for i thing, well minus the sneak attack.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*Hunter of the Dead*



Myth and Legend said:


> Frozen Messiah have you checked the Hunter of the Dead PRC from Complete Warrior? It's what you are looking for i thing, well minus the sneak attack.





Ugh, had a D&D brain malfunction for not thinking about that

of course that would work and all I would have to do is to go paladin (with modifications) and everything will be hunky dory


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*Rebalanced paladin*

The Rebalanced Paladin! (Thread 2) - Wizards Community

if I were to play a paladin I would play this which brings it up to par with all other classes and is supposedly balanced, hope it's ok.

What I would like to do is take smiting arrow from crystal keep with a special mount to make a Hunter of the dead that hits hard and can chase down any fleeing enemies on horse.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok with going paladin but before going rebalanced do up a regular first and give me the where it would be different and why

just to start give me the new stats for the paladin and feat selection/1st lvl abilities from there we can see what to keep/delete lol

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*Ranged Paladin*

Str:9
Dex:16
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:16

Feats: Pont Blank Shot, Percise Shot

Abilities:
Heavy and medium armor -> Smite with bow
Smite evil 1/day
Detect evil
Aura of good

so here are the stats and feats and the abilites for my 1st level paladin (Claude des Tourneau)


----------



## Theroc

Btw, Holyman, did you get a look at that thread about Warlock Balance yet?  Just wondering.  Btw, for a second there when you posted the placeholder last night, I thought we were gonna get attacked or something, lol.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Btw, Holyman, did you get a look at that thread about Warlock Balance yet? Just wondering. Btw, for a second there when you posted the placeholder last night, I thought we were gonna get attacked or something, lol.




yes i did get a chance to see the others comments but they weren't looking at it from a DM stand point I believe--ask them if they would like one in the game they are running and see respondes lol bet they are a little (not much) but a little different

and soory for the scare this is a complex matter with Dellex and I want it to be fun and ??? I don't know but fun and it took me over an hour and lots of paper to get the post I just wrote done


----------



## HolyMan

Frozen Messiah said:


> Str:9
> Dex:16
> Con:14
> Int:10
> Wis:14
> Cha:16
> 
> Feats: Pont Blank Shot, Percise Shot
> 
> Abilities:
> Heavy and medium armor -> Smite with bow
> Smite evil 1/day
> Detect evil
> Aura of good
> 
> so here are the stats and feats and the abilites for my 1st level paladin (Claude des Tourneau)




Nice FM he will fit in nicely...

swaps for armor are more than fair and I liked the once per encounter use of smite I saw in the redone version.. so how about both armors and shield prof. to get smite with bow and smite 1+ cha mod/day I may just make that a house rule (after we play test it) to give future paladins appeal

you were missing your +2/+2 feat and we need to talk patheon/belief what is this guy a champion of and how will that play down the road when I put him in a pit of undead?


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> yes i did get a chance to see the others comments but they weren't looking at it from a DM stand point I believe--ask them if they would like one in the game they are running and see respondes lol bet they are a little (not much) but a little different
> 
> and soory for the scare this is a complex matter with Dellex and I want it to be fun and ??? I don't know but fun and it took me over an hour and lots of paper to get the post I just wrote done





The only thing that the few speaking from a DM standpoint said was annoying was the flying Warlocks and whatnot... (And with Dragon Disciple, I'd be doing that ANYWAY [Since tenth level gives me WINGS!]) so I figured the discussion fairly well covered why Warlocks are not OP.

Essentially, the only time a Warlock becomes a problem is if you REALLY love trying to make the party burnoff all their resources... and if you feel that way, just stick me in an Anti-magic Field.  >.> I don't think my Spell-Like Invocations would work in there, lol.


----------



## HolyMan

So stuck on playing a warlock?? Ok I know how to make it fit with the character concept but The rule for casting unprepared spells you may have to take a spell choice instead of a feat next o around 

But the only way you get warlock is if.....


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Nice FM he will fit in nicely...
> 
> swaps for armor are more than fair and I liked the once per encounter use of smite I saw in the redone version.. so how about both armors and shield prof. to get smite with bow and smite 1+ cha mod/day I may just make that a house rule (after we play test it) to give future paladins appeal
> 
> you were missing your +2/+2 feat and we need to talk patheon/belief what is this guy a champion of and how will that play down the road when I put him in a pit of undead?




More smiting sounds good to me, do you mean per day or encounter?

Indeed I did forget the +2/+2 feat, Animal affiinity or Alertness

What I've thought up so far he is some what like one of the three musketeres in his thinking pattern


----------



## HolyMan

Frozen Messiah said:


> More smiting sounds good to me, do you mean per day or encounter?
> 
> Indeed I did forget the +2/+2 feat, Animal affiinity or Alertness
> 
> What I've thought up so far he is some what like one of the three musketeres in his thinking pattern




That would be per day you would then get 4 smites/day sound good?

So you are following and ideal/way of living and not a diety per se
which is kool no rules but to have fun


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> So stuck on playing a warlock?? Ok I know how to make it fit with the character concept but The rule for casting unprepared spells you may have to take a spell choice instead of a feat next o around
> 
> But the only way you get warlock is if.....




~waits for it...~

Anyways, not so much stuck on Warlock as, "Don't want to end up having to choose his spells and make crappy choices, then run out of spells 2 rounds into an encounter and realize I needed them later, not earlier and be semi-useless"

Warlocks are much simpler IMO than a Sorcerer...


----------



## HolyMan

You are right but spells only shouldn't be the big thing when your caracter is in an encounter

 but you know how warlock will fit.....

Eldrith Blast comes out of the mouth i.e. breath weapon lol


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> You are right but spells only shouldn't be the big thing when your caracter is in an encounter
> 
> but you know how warlock will fit.....
> 
> Eldrith Blast comes out of the mouth i.e. breath weapon lol




Fine by me!  lol.

Man, no one will want Aidan to belch...


----------



## HolyMan

Ok Theroc I will look at revising the warlock to fit our need

 not to make him weaker (like I could) but to go along with the PrC

have a question first what is the build like lvl by lvl to see if I need a drastic change and to plan adventures/character growth i.e. the jerk who kneed you will come along before you have fangs,claws, and a mean dispotion lol


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> That would be per day you would then get 4 smites/day sound good?
> 
> So you are following and ideal/way of living and not a diety per se
> which is kool no rules but to have fun




That sounds fine to me, I don't see this campaign as being so combat intesive that I could need more.

Yes, he is an ideal not the idol sort of paladin with nothing else but his own moral code to guide him.

I plan on his back story being from a nobel family that has been broken up due to a potential coup years back and so he travelled the land trying to help the people that he had no contact with due to his upper class nature, very patriotic.

Any idea of what part of the knigdom he should come from?


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Ok Theroc I will look at revising the warlock to fit our need
> 
> not to make him weaker (like I could) but to go along with the PrC
> 
> have a question first what is the build like lvl by lvl to see if I need a drastic change and to plan adventures/character growth i.e. the jerk who kneed you will come along before you have fangs,claws, and a mean dispotion lol




Well, I'm not certain how many levels you intend for us to gain during this campain, or whether or not you intend it to be similar to the "Living Worlds" in that you'll maintain and persist the general campaign indefinitely or not, but I intended something like Aidan's Monk class 5/Warlock 3/DD 10/Warlock 2, depending how encounters turn out, I might realize I need more melee, and might not gain any further Warlock levels.

Probably not optimal by any stretch, but Aidan was basically going to be a melee fighter with a small bag of extra tricks and a load of RP potential with his obvious changes.


----------



## HolyMan

To FM: will link this in case you missed it http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/258310-five-kingdoms.html

But any kingdom but Reygur would suffice (not many good guys come out of there) and for your cope ideal could go Fanshaw maybe reveal merchant families or some such

To Theroc: Well 15th level is my min. plan after that it will be up to everyone what they wish to do... but it is also based on where the story is people are gaining experience at a good speed right now we haven't even started to march lol and it's a long way

So what if we base your warlock on the arcane principles and then you would qualifiy and i would be able to 
a. dispell or counterspell your limited list
b. not have to change to much 
c. and remeber you will always be party to a group so others need to cover an aspect of combat

main reason i'm game for this is the background/role play aspect so keep that fresh and fun and anything is possible

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> To FM: will link this in case you missed it http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/258310-five-kingdoms.html
> 
> But any kingdom but Reygur would suffice (not many good guys come out of there) and for your cope ideal could go Fanshaw maybe reveal merchant families or some such
> 
> HM




Reygur would be best, which also explains why he chose "of the wheels" as a new last name (this was so he couldn't be found by enemies of the family)


----------



## HolyMan

ok I guess one good apple in the bunch is resonable but most people will think you a scoundrel, assassin or up to no good on general purposes do to your nationality

can't wait to see you role play this...

whats next for the character ? skills? description? equipment?


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> ok I guess one good apple in the bunch is resonable but most people will think you a scoundrel, assassin or up to no good on general purposes do to your nationality
> 
> can't wait to see you role play this...
> 
> whats next for the character ? skills? description? equipment?




skills and equipement will come soon enough and have been cruising through elfwood for a portrit that would do him honour.

This is the closest I've come to yet:
Richard D´Avignon, Lydia R. G. Richardson, SciFi Fantasy Art


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> To FM: will link this in case you missed it http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/258310-five-kingdoms.html
> 
> But any kingdom but Reygur would suffice (not many good guys come out of there) and for your cope ideal could go Fanshaw maybe reveal merchant families or some such
> 
> To Theroc: Well 15th level is my min. plan after that it will be up to everyone what they wish to do... but it is also based on where the story is people are gaining experience at a good speed right now we haven't even started to march lol and it's a long way
> 
> So what if we base your warlock on the arcane principles and then you would qualifiy and i would be able to
> a. dispell or counterspell your limited list
> b. not have to change to much
> c. and remeber you will always be party to a group so others need to cover an aspect of combat
> 
> main reason i'm game for this is the background/role play aspect so keep that fresh and fun and anything is possible
> 
> HM




Well, the energy is arcane in origin, but I'm not sure what spells you'd use as a counterspell for alot of the stuff.  Aside from that, sounds fine for me.  And Aidan's a skirmisher-type.  He's definitely NOT the main tank nor the MAIN damage dealer.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*Paladin*

I have made a decision to forget undead as a focus and switch to inspiring the troops he will be fighting with by going Purple Dragon Knight (from Complete Warrior)

Is that fine with you HM?


----------



## HolyMan

is that a class or a PrC class FM?? remeber with the swap rules you can switch out things to form your own inspiring hero

anything is fine till you post in th RG and then with this style campaign characters could change later on there is options for that

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*Purple Dragon KNight*



HolyMan said:


> is that a class or a PrC class FM?? remeber with the swap rules you can switch out things to form your own inspiring hero
> 
> anything is fine till you post in th RG and then with this style campaign characters could change later on there is options for that
> 
> HM




A paladin perstige calss that gains abilities to help those around him like giving them bonus speed and bonus hp at the final level.

I do remeber about the swap system and I feel that the rebalanced paladin already does a portion of inspiring troops (to bad Wizards is down)

The base paladin swaps do not change at all it's more telling you where I'm going before I'm in


----------



## HolyMan

FM you were in at hello (you had me at hello lol)

Point here is to make a charcter you wish to take from 1st all the way to 30th so please don't play for numbers or feats but for concept and development and we will all have fun


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*More Questions???*



HolyMan said:


> FM you were in at hello (you had me at hello lol)
> 
> Point here is to make a charcter you wish to take from 1st all the way to 30th so please don't play for numbers or feats but for concept and development and we will all have fun




Sorry, been off for a while (at least from my point of view)

I have a perfect understanding of what you are tyring to accomplish and perstige classes are my way of having fun with very unique capabilties that allow my character to be as I see him.

little bit off topic but, will the party be gaining higher military rank as the campaign progresses? will this mean we could lead contingents of soldiers?


----------



## Theroc

HM, what say you on Aidan carrying Loreen a short ways?  By Raw he'd be forced to stagger around and such... due to his str score.

Just wanna know, because, I'd think Aidan would have a fairly good idea whether or not he could even do such a thing before attempting it.


----------



## HolyMan

To FM: Anything is possible and if leading is what you want I will let you remeber this is our game not my game you are playing.

To Theroc: I don't worry to much about weight till your tring to carry all 10.000gp in one sack by yourself or are running from the blue dragon with a gold staute over your shoulder, then we will number crunch. Long as you don't post that your carrying her effortlessly like a feather in a breeze it's all good.


HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> To Theroc: I don't worry to much about weight till your tring to carry all 10.000gp in one sack by yourself or are running from the blue dragon with a gold staute over your shoulder, then we will number crunch. Long as you don't post that your carrying her effortlessly like a feather in a breeze it's all good.
> 
> 
> HM




Alrighty.  I was basically going to say, "As difficult as it is, Aidan tries his best not to let the effort show.  After all, he wouldn't want to give the impression the girl was HEAVY..."


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*More more questions*

I'm a little taken aback by this sort of for the PC's DMing, it may be why I'm asking this amount of questions

Are we playing with age categories?

Edit: Ignore this, spur of the moment post


----------



## HolyMan

LOL Don't think of it as for the PC's more like for a good game we are doing this we still need to focus on balance and you best watch out I am a tricky DM basing things around your strengths and weaknesses just ask the group in Search in the Dark standing on the edge of a 80' cliff at night with no rope (to bad they woke up the assassine vine _before_ they started to climb down that would have been real fun)

So make your character something you really want to play and the answer is no not using the age rules they I believe are out of wack (would you give Arnold a -1 to Str for being 50??)


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> So make your character something you really want to play and the answer is no not using the age rules they I believe are out of wack (would you give Arnold a -1 to Str for being 50??)




Better example. Holyman... do you think Chuck Norris's roundhouse kick hurts any less than it did ten years ago?


----------



## HolyMan

Don't know and don't want to find out lol (they need a smiliy with a black eye lol) 

I see you and ML have been busy today( I like the devlepoments I will use this ?? bond ??) let me know when your done I 'll slip in returning to Fallon  when your finished


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Don't know and don't want to find out lol (they need a smiliy with a black eye lol)
> 
> I see you and ML have been busy today( I like the devlepoments I will use this ?? bond ??) let me know when your done I 'll slip in returning to Fallon  when your finished






Atm, Aidan is my easiest character to play(as in coming up with his responses), and Myth is a fairly frequent poster... and as I sit on Enworld and hit the 'refresh' tab for hours on end... (Yes, I realize it's not healthy, but my friends generally live too far away for frequent visits and I dislike most outdoors-y stuff... and jobhunting goes poorly) I have plenty of time to reply.

I have a couple character's I'd like to work up, but don't have the proper materials/information yet to truly begin.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> So make your character something you really want to play and the answer is no not using the age rules they I believe are out of wack (would you give Arnold a -1 to Str for being 50??)




I have finally finished a full character sheet for Claude Francois Grinard and will be posting it for a look over

thank GOD you are not using the age penalties (I hate how you can't have a grizzled old war veteran due to the penalties) this allows me to make his back story much more interesting. Why should all of the youngins get all the fun of adventuring?


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*Claude Francois Grignard*

[sblock]
Class: Paladin
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Lawful Good
Deity: None

Str: 9 -1 Level:1 XP: XXXX
Dex: 16 +3 BAB:+1 HP: 12 (1d10+2)
Con: 14 +2 Grapple:+0 Dmg Red: 
Int: 10 +0 Speed:30' Spell Res: 
Wis: 14 +2 Init:+3 Spell Save: 
Cha: 16 +3 ACP:-2 Spell Fail: 20%

Armor: 10 +3 +0 +3 +0 +X +X 17
Touch: 13 Flatfooted: 13

Fort: +2 +2  Total:+4
Ref +0 +4    Total:+4
Will: +0 +2   Total+2
Weapon Attack Damage Critical
Longbow +1 1d8+3 X3
Dagger +0 1d4-1 19-20 X2

Languages: Common

Abilities: light armor prof., Smite with bow, Smite evil 4/day,
Detect Evil, Aura of Good
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Percise Shot, Negotiator

Skill Points: 5 Max Ranks: 4
Skills:
Diplomacy 4 +3 +2 +9
Knowledge(nobility) 2 +0 +2
Knowledge(religion) 4 +0 +4
Ride 4 +3 +7
Sense Motive 2 +3 +2 +7 

Equipment:
Backpack 2gp 2lb
Studded Leather 25gp 20lb
Hooded Lamp 7gp 2lb
Signet Ring 5gp -lb
Mirror, small 10gp 1/2lb
Soap 5sp 1lb

Total Weight:29.5lb Money:33gp 2sp 8cp

Max Weight: Lgt:30lb Med:60lb Hvy:90lb Lift:90lb Push:450lb

[/sblock]

Does everything look up to code HM, don't want to post the sheet then be written up and have to pay a fine


----------



## HolyMan

To Galphanore: I needed a reflex save for Damon please DC 13 I take it the dive and drawing a spear were your suprise round actions. And this "attack" on the tree is Round 1 is this correct?

To Frozen Messiah: busy weekend at work will red mark your character tonight and get you into IC before my two days off are up.

Anyone else need anything ? Please let me know.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Anyone else need anything ? Please let me know.
> 
> HM





What is the plan for the Off to War thread?


----------



## Galphanore

Yep, and : 1d20+3 → [10,3] = (13)


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> What is the plan for the Off to War thread?




When you and ML are ready I will get you back to Fallon just a little more info till I have everyone off to bed to wake for the first day of marching to war. So you two decide, I think ML is waiting for you in the thread.

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

No need to rush HM, I am a patient man, deal with the people in game.

I forgot to add a horse and the type of clothing to the my costs on my sheet.

he would be wearing the Travellers outfitjust for money sakes.

would the military provide a horse for Claude? would they if he preposed to fill in where the lost outrider left of (never finished reading "in the woods")?


----------



## HolyMan

lots of things will be supplied if you took ranks in ride then you may become an Outrider but the give aways will equal close to gold/lvl don't want you to be to powerful to soon and you should go to http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258748-search-dark.html the group is about to face a nasty assassin vine should be kool to see what they do.

and am reviewing your character now or do you want me to wait till you add to it?

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

*a rider without a horse*



HolyMan said:


> lots of things will be supplied if you took ranks in ride then you may become an Outrider but the give aways will equal close to gold/lvl don't want you to be to powerful to soon and you should go to http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258748-search-dark.html the group is about to face a nasty assassin vine should be kool to see what they do.
> 
> and am reviewing your character now or do you want me to wait till you add to it?
> 
> HM




I think if I'm withiout a horse for the first few levels it's not the end of the world. 5th level I get a celestial mount so all I have to do is wait.

going outrider was more of a reason to stay (my character is a wanderer) and I believe he is capable, I don't expect to pull ahead off anybody: power wise.


----------



## HolyMan

[sblock]
Class: Paladin
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Lawful Good
Deity: None maybe a knightly code or something here

Str: 9 -1 Level:1 XP: XXXX 0
Dex: 16 +3 BAB:+1 HP: 12 (1d10+2)
Con: 14 +2 Grapple:+0 Dmg Red: none
Int: 10 +0 Speed:30' Spell Res: none
Wis: 14 +2 Init:+3 Spell Save: n/a
Cha: 16 +3 ACP:-2 -1 Spell Fail: 20% should be n/a you don't cast arcane spells
Base Armor Shield Mod DB Misc Total
Armor: 10 +3 +0 +3 +0 +X +X 17
Touch: 13 Flatfooted: 13
Base Mod Misc Total
Fort: +2 +2 Total:+4
Ref +0 +4 Total:+4 dex is +3 not +4
Will: +0 +2 Total+2
Weapon Attack Damage Critical
Longbow +1 1d8+3 X3 +4/+5 to attack
Dagger(melee) +0 1d4-1 19-20 X2 
list dagger thrown +4/+5 1d4-1 19-20x2
Languages: Common

Abilities: light armor prof., Smite with bow, Smite evil 4/day,
Detect Evil, Aura of Good
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Percise Shot, Negotiator

Skill Points: 5 actually 20 points Max Ranks: 4
Skills:
Diplomacy 4 +3 +2 +9
Knowledge(nobility) 2 +0 +2
Knowledge(religion) 4 +0 +4
Ride 4 +3 +7
Sense Motive 2 +3 +2 +7 sense motive is wis based so +2 for mod 

only spent 16 points total have 4 left 

Equipment:
list everything
Longbow 75gp 3lb
quiver 20 arrows 1gp 3lb
dagger 2gp 1lb
Backpack 2gp 2lb
Studded Leather 25gp 20lb
Hooded Lamp 7gp 2lb
Signet Ring 5gp -lb
Mirror, small 10gp 1/2lb
Soap 5sp 1lb

Total Weight:29.5lb have you at 32.5 for total double check my math though Money:33gp 2sp 8cp leftover money 22gp 5 sp

Max Weight: Lgt:30lb Med:60lb Hvy:90lb Lift:90lb Push:450lb

[/sblock]

Man thing is the description and history numbers will come around do me a favor and double check my math for money and weight and when you have changes made and a description post him in the RG and I'll go check on him there


HM


----------



## HolyMan

Looking good FM except I can't see him (in my head) without a description copy paste this then fill it out;

Age:
Height:
Weight:
Hair Color:
Eye Color:
Skin Color:
Apperance:

and a little background and you are set and I'll add u to Roll Call and let you post into the Off to War thread so we can get you some xp 

XP oh no!! 5 days already till next give out! darn I wanted Search to be over oh well this is pbp and no plan survives contact with the enemy.

HM


----------



## wysiwyg

There has not been any movement in the Search in the Dark thread for 2 days now. Come-on people, start typing.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Looking good FM except I can't see him (in my head) without a description copy paste this then fill it out;
> 
> Age:
> Height:
> Weight:
> Hair Color:
> Eye Color:
> Skin Color:
> Apperance:
> 
> and a little background and you are set and I'll add u to Roll Call and let you post into the Off to War thread so we can get you some xp
> 
> HM




I know, when I posted him it was getting late and my school begins in 4 days (3 now) so I need some sleep.

Do Reygurians have any sort of national look or am I free to build one? I had the thought of them being dark skinned and give Reygur a New Orleans sort of feel (vodoo and such)


----------



## HolyMan

that would work out great and we are building this world together so go ahead if you have time and make a look for the Reygurians 

the New Orleans feel will work they do have alot of marsh lands/swamps south of them and trouble with lizardfolk

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> that would work out great and we are building this world together so go ahead if you have time and make a look for the Reygurians
> 
> the New Orleans feel will work they do have alot of marsh lands/swamps south of them and trouble with lizardfolk
> 
> HM




That is a good thing because I made my character around that idea. I will begin doing some research on new orleans, crops, culture, and anything else that maybe useful

I have put in my backstory and apperance in, I am anxious about the meeting of Claude with the "Bear" and how he will take his story.


----------



## HolyMan

To: Galphanore 

Needing your knowledge check for Search in the Dark 

To: everyone else in Search if I don't hear from Galphanore by midnight I will NPC him 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Catching Up...*

ghostcat can you copy this into your extra post in the RG please:

[sblock=Loreen's suitor] a man of medium build, his face holds a scraggley beard and mustache, and his nose looks to have been broken several times. A scar rides his temple above his right eye back towards his right ear  his hands look like they were used to pound nails into boards and a short blade rests on his hip. [/sblock]



I would like to use that spot for antagonist, rivals and such.. ML has helpful NPC's

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Catching Up II...*

FM - after you get a chance for the description post that you are ready here i want to introduce you as one of the guys bring Shinn back in from the woods he isn't hurt to badly but you never know 

I am going to post xp then start the Search thread along and give Claude the last once over and I should be all caught up 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*A few words on XP*

O.k. before the hunderd questions:

1.) Why did you get 1/2 the experience points than what you got last time? Last time was for 4 weeks this time it is only 2 weeks.

2.) How did Myth and Legend and Theroc get such high XP they didn'e fight any monsters? XP are givin out for each rp post/time/completing quest and DM bonus XP are not givin out for killing monsters but DM bonus XP are givin for surviving an encounter and rp post get the most XP so plz try and rp those combat posts a little (example: He moved his sword in a manuver he had practiced till dark everyday that first month he was givin his own sword. And all the practice paid off as the goblin fell before the sharp blade.)<---- that is worth more xp than "He swung and hit the goblin killing it." Every little bit more we learn about your character adds to the xp and then latter if you keep to character even though it would be more advantageous not to then you get an even  bigger reward. And trust me I will make it very disadvantageous. 

3.) How are we to get to level 15+ with such low XP points every two weeks? Simple XP rewards are multiplied by your lvl so they will be greater the higher your level.

4.) My posts were better than his why did he get more this time? Sorry but I have final say and if I like a post it gets those DM bonus points don't forget and no you don't have to entertain me you just have to make this a good game for all.

5.) I'm only 90 points from leveling up come on give me those so i can level up now and not wait two weeks. (looks at ML) Tell you what it will probably take us two weeks to get your character ready for level up so go ahead and start and it will be offical in two weeks. also level up rules will be posted in houserules soon.

6.) What if I want to change characters or mine dies? Then the new character gets two thirds the xp you have for this one and your other becomes NPC and you can't go back to him.

ok I'm late posting XP any more questions please ask.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Points Aug 15th-Aug 31st*



		Code:
	

wysiwyg                          140
ghostcat                         155
Erwinfoxjj                       130
Galphanore                       120
Myth and Legend                  240
Theroc                           220


----------



## Myth and Legend

Don't worry HM i will level up when Lora gets the necessary XP I'm in no hurry  BTW good plot! The "eureka" moment for Lora was something unexpected! You are a good DM (and if you don't mind can you help me with reviewing the character sheets for my own thread? Or are you lacking book access?)


----------



## HolyMan

Would love to help but lack book access sorry, if you get any vanilla chasracters i will be glad to help. I play vanilla crunch but make up for it in RP 

HM

p.s. thanks for the complement I hope to make this a game to remember


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> ghostcat can you copy this into your extra post in the RG please:
> 
> I would like to use that spot for antagonist, rivals and such.. ML has helpful NPC's
> 
> HM




Done. 

I usually read the Off Topic thread. Just hadn't got around to it today.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks ghostcat just haven't seen you posting in here in awhile so thought you may have forgot us 

Thanks for the RG postings will be adding Dellex sometime soon will keep you posted.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Judging by Lora's Knowledge check hes probably Lawful Neutral, but still don't plop him in the RG until we can be certain of his true motives (with the "me posting good NPCs, Ghostcat posting the bad ones" division)


----------



## Theroc

>.> I didn't recall a mention of a beard at all, so the sudden lack confused me.  As for the wording, some noble's are just conceited and refer to themselves in third person, to make it more obvious WHOSE favor you'd just earned.

There's my excuse.  That, and Aidan's an ignorant farmboy, and knows nothing of nobility or royalty.  We're lucky he knows anything about geography.  lol


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> There's my excuse. That, and Aidan's an ignorant farmboy, and knows nothing of nobility or royalty. We're lucky he knows anything about geography. lol




You mean you weren't playing him ignorant of who he was talking to you really didn't know???? Then I may have to take back the bonus XP (jk) I know I told you I was taking my time with the enconter with Dellex so I thought you were playing in character was waiting for you to ask pointed questions though they never came. Hmm.. I am crafter than I thought who knew.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

> some noble's are just conceited and refer to themselves in third person, to make it more obvious WHOSE favor you'd just earned.



 I must say that i took this line exactly for "nobletalk", i (IRL) didn't suspect this was not Lord Bairan. Lora was thinking hard and also tried to seem humble (which takes an effort for the girl) so they don't get whipped.. or worse.


----------



## HolyMan

And you had me fooled that you didn't know LOL

I promise better communication in the future 

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> FM - after you get a chance for the description post that you are ready here i want to introduce you as one of the guys bring Shinn back in from the woods he isn't hurt to badly but you never know
> 
> I am going to post xp then start the Search thread along and give Claude the last once over and I should be all caught up
> 
> HM




Finally got down to that description/backstory, so I believe I am ready

I'm in my first week of school at the moment so I have to focus on that so I may not be posting as much

Just giving you a heads up


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks for the heads up I'll post you in around friday so you have this week but won't need you to post till your ready but you will be with the group.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Heads up to ML with that last post you will be hitting 2nd lvl come the 16th i am off to post lvl up rules so we can go over them and you may beable to have crunch done before and edit it in that very day we will see 

Will post link to lvl up rules in a few.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok heres where you may find the new house rule soon to be put in use.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-house-rules/258313-off-war-houserules.html

Please ideals, funny comments, anything let's debate/twik this before it's offical.


----------



## Theroc

Easiest name to spell, and you STILL spelled it wrong!   

Anyways, does shouldn't we just put an 'advancement' section in our original RG post, and have you clear each level up as we go, updating the main sheet once it's approved?


----------



## HolyMan

I spell evyting wrong (SEE) 

new I should have checked it first 

You will up date your sheets if thats what your asking just want to know what you did to update them and the one post on your character sheet to me seems... neater less clutter

but are you suggesting to do it like it is in ML game I went that route but again for neatness didn't want all that on the sheet also a good way to check for anything forgotten anything else (got any examples of other ways?)

HM


----------



## Theroc

I meant a seperate section of the post, before updating, similar to what ML's game had... also similar to how Living Enworld does it.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Well as a player i needed the level advancement tab to see if i had gotten the things "by the book" and not missed anything. Also it helps greatly with skill points when making a high lvl pc at the start of the game. And clutter is not an issue for me because of the neat sblock tab  The level up system seems fine, i will be a vanilla Wizard until levlel 5 or 6, so no worries.


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend Lora is anything (and everything) but vanilla

I would like to see there be a few posts in the RG..

-the crunch post with the numbers/skills/feats and all up to date
-the background/character history post (very important)
-the leveling up post to see where all the numbers feats and things came from
-and an equipment received/spent (so when you say I did so get that +4 dagger of NPC death it is somewhere i can see that yep i goofed) also latter on when PC's are higher lvl they may have thier on tents and some equipment/maps/books of a non combat but heavy roleplay possiblities

But if this is odd and people want everything in one post I guess it is ok but I thought links to the various others would work.

HM


----------



## Theroc

I don't understand HM.  Aidan's background is already in his original RG post, along with his crunch/skills etc...

For levelling up, you want to seperate these?


----------



## HolyMan

Your background will "expand?" as more things are learned about you and you develop your character more 

also a place to put your character history(what has gone from the background till now) like a journal type or story 

I believe this will help with character development/roleplay

I don't want to seperate them yet but as they grow(your lvl ups and background and if you change your personlity (do to who knows what?? this is D&D) then a progession should be recorded

something like "When Aidan first came to the irregulars camp he knew nothing about soildering but after months of drills he now knows all about flanks, dressing ranks, and other military talk." (But nothing so blah I gots to go to work so am hurrying) But we can all watch characters grow and see what caused a good or bad change in a character.

Laters

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Your background will "expand?" as more things are learned about you and you develop your character more
> 
> also a place to put your character history(what has gone from the background till now) like a journal type or story
> 
> I believe this will help with character development/roleplay
> 
> I don't want to seperate them yet but as they grow(your lvl ups and background and if you change your personlity (do to who knows what?? this is D&D) then a progession should be recorded
> 
> something like "When Aidan first came to the irregulars camp he knew nothing about soildering but after months of drills he now knows all about flanks, dressing ranks, and other military talk." (But nothing so blah I gots to go to work so am hurrying) But we can all watch characters grow and see what caused a good or bad change in a character.
> 
> Laters
> 
> HM




Oh, you want us to cover our adventures in our history?


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Oh, you want us to cover our adventures in our history?




Well as much of your history as you want but don't threads get deleted around here? After Search in the Dark is over I hate to just let it fall by the way side as "I remember we played a game looking for a lost rider guy, and a tree attack us and ... well I forget the rest."

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Well as much of your history as you want but don't threads get deleted around here? After Search in the Dark is over I hate to just let it fall by the way side as "I remember we played a game looking for a lost rider guy, and a tree attack us and ... well I forget the rest."
> 
> HM




Hm... didn't know they got deleted.  I know they're locked and such after around 1,000 posts, to avoid taxing something or other.


----------



## HolyMan

I have seen people post things like so ana so will be on vacation so no posting this week but they are gone in the Talking the Talk now and have heard others mention it

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I have seen people post things like so ana so will be on vacation so no posting this week but they are gone in the Talking the Talk now and have heard others mention it
> 
> HM






They get buried under new topics.  Betcha my away thread still exists somewhere.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> They get buried under new topics. Betcha my away thread still exists somewhere.




Nope don't see it on the 4 pages but I know there was five pages not two weeks ago and ML's thread is gone the one on maps so I think some history or what has gone before and definetly a post for equipment that you recieved and when so i don't say "I never gave you that... did I??"

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Nope don't see it on the 4 pages but I know there was five pages not two weeks ago and ML's thread is gone the one on maps so I think some history or what has gone before and definetly a post for equipment that you recieved and when so i don't say "I never gave you that... did I??"
> 
> HM




http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/258455-reduced-activity-few-days.html

Page 4.


----------



## HolyMan

ah I thought you were the 8/something to 8/ something post couldn't remember 

HM


----------



## Theroc

There's an option at the bottom for seeing older threads than the past month.  It can go back years.


----------



## HolyMan

YEARS IS RIGHT!!! I just posted in a game that had it's last post in 2002

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/7962-lets-start-game.html

Crazy that is

HM


----------



## Theroc

Saw that, lol.


----------



## HolyMan

So that means Search in the dark won't go away or any other side quest we do that is a load off.

As long as I have a link it will be easy to find and reference. Wonder why those old games aren't locked to prevent posting?

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> So that means Search in the dark won't go away or any other side quest we do that is a load off.
> 
> As long as I have a link it will be easy to find and reference. Wonder why those old games aren't locked to prevent posting?
> 
> HM






Probably because we don't have a problem with people necromancying posts here on Enworld.


----------



## wysiwyg

Theroc, if your PC is ready, why not start posting in the IC thread.


----------



## wysiwyg

Search in the Dark is falling behind. Who are we waiting for? The last post was 2 days ago...


----------



## Theroc

wysiwyg said:


> Theroc, if your PC is ready, why not start posting in the IC thread.




Waiting for inspiration to strike.  Also, I seem to be better able to get into Aidan's head AFTER Myth posts.


----------



## HolyMan

waiting on Erwinfoxjj he may not know he is up and right now I'm at work but he isn't yet when he gets here I will get him to post from my laptop

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok to FM are you ready i am about to put you into the Off to War thread 

after I post you can go at it

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Ok to FM are you ready i am about to put you into the Off to War thread
> 
> after I post you can go at it
> 
> HM




I'm good to go, whenever your ready HM

but not tonight need some rest for school will post tomorrow though


----------



## HolyMan

*Check, Check, Map Check*

l l l l l l l l l
l l l l l l l lAl
l l l l l lOlGl l
l l l l l lRlEl l
lRl l l l l l l l
lRlMl l l l l d l
l l l d lOl l l l
l l l l lHl l l l
l l l l l l l l l
l l l l l l l l l 
l l l l l l l l l


----------



## HolyMan

great post ML will have a few guys leave to their own site for you lol 6 days till lvl up and maybe for others as well has everyone decided on how we want to do this I need some feedback plz

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> l l l l l l l l l
> l l l l l l l l l
> l l l l l lOlGl l
> l l l l l lRlEl l
> lRl l l l l l l l
> lRlMl l l l l d l
> l l l d lOl l l l
> l l l l lHl l l l
> l l l l l l l l l
> l l l l l l l l l
> l l l l l l l l l




What's this?


----------



## HolyMan

sorry 

Map Key:

d= door (open)
R= dire rat
M= martomum
O= Orc
H= Hralfgar
A= Aidan (and he is in trouble lol)
Ogre= well an ogre of course

l= open
l= wall


What do you think an ok map oh right you aren't in the Search in the Dark
thats the kind of maps I may have to use

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> sorry
> 
> Map Key:
> 
> d= door (open)
> R= dire rat
> M= martomum
> O= Orc
> H= Hralfgar
> Ogre= well an ogre of course
> 
> l= open
> l= wall
> 
> 
> What do you think an ok map oh right you aren't in the Search in the Dark
> thats the kind of maps I may have to use
> 
> HM




Ah, I see.  I kept looking for Aidan on the map.


----------



## HolyMan

okay look again


----------



## Theroc

I can take 'em!  Put 'em up, put 'em up!


----------



## HolyMan

Ok then look for it in an adventure soon

I think you made lvl up you were 200 points away and everyone gets 100 points for time so u only need 100 so get your build done i know u will be busy the 16th when i post xp

HM


----------



## Theroc

Do you want me to post changes here, or directly into a new post in the RG?


----------



## HolyMan

We haven't decide on how to do that but how about you try doing the lvl up post in the RG and list all new changes and I'll review that

if we like it we will have everyone make one if we dont another NPC post(monster npcs) could come in handy

HM


----------



## Theroc

Not sure if what I'm about to post is what you wanted for advancement, but if not, I can incorporate this list into an updated full sheet for approval.


----------



## HolyMan

Looking it over everything looks great you listed everything even though you only need to list changes (AC doesn't change no need to know that)

You will be using this post for all your lvl ups so to keep it neat you should sblock all the info and what is a HR'ed Monk???


HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Looking it over everything looks great you listed everything even though you only need to list changes (AC doesn't change no need to know that)
> 
> You will be using this post for all your lvl ups so to keep it neat you should sblock all the info and what is a HR'ed Monk???
> 
> 
> HM




HR=House-rule
HR'ed= House Ruled

Aidan's got different skills and weapon proficiencies, and thusly isn't a standard monk.  I'll Sblock the thing once there's more than one.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Points Sept 1st-Sept 15th*



		Code:
	

Erwinfoxjj                  150
ghostcat                    175
wysiwyg                     155
Myth and Legend             210
Theroc                      205
Frozen Messiah              140

 
*CONGRATS TO THEROC AND MYTH AND LEGEND!!!!*
*CHARCATERS ARE LVL 2*


----------



## Myth and Legend

Yay! So how do we show this development in-game?


----------



## HolyMan

Totally up to the player there will be times I fast forward a couple days as the army is marching, or Lora could pick up her spellbook now and try to "recall" a few useful spells her mentor taught her (i.e. the two new spells you get at second lvl), Aidan already learned it's unwise to stand still even if your opponent is unarmed that he should always be ready to move or block (his +1 AC he will get later you don't need to always be training for the next lvl it could be one or two beyond that you do a little towards).


I hope to finish Search in the Dark up in a week or two then have everyone return, get some sleep, then start the big march Off to War....


HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok to those in Search in the Dark (Ewrinfoxjj, ghostcat, wysiwyg) you have found the Outrider so it is mission complete getting him back is really no "big" adventure my original plan was to find him and then end it there how you get back is of no big-deal, unless you all wish to play it out.


I could post a final clean up thread and then have you all come out of the woods then introductions can be "played out" and after, it would be off to bed and time to head out to the war front, but along the way I would have a few more side quests. Let me know what you would like to do .

HM


----------



## wysiwyg

I vote we end Search in the Dark sooner rather than later and have everyone posting together soon.


----------



## ghostcat

wysiwyg said:


> I vote we end Search in the Dark sooner rather than later and have everyone posting together soon.



[aol]Me Too[/aol]


----------



## HolyMan

ok then I will get on that and have everyone back in the Off to War by this weekend.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@ghostcat 







> I have deliberately not read the Off To War (IC) thread since we started Search in the Dark. Do I need to go back and read anything? [/qoute]
> 
> No, it is up to you if you want to or not nothing that happens while your away will effect your character but the stories will mix a little. I wasn't prepared for what happened in the Off to War thread I was thinking of using it as a leaping stone to adventures like Search in the Dark, but I like what has developed.
> 
> @Theroc
> WELCOME BACK ( really need you in Hall of the Dwarven Lord  )
> 
> HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> @ghostcat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Theroc
> WELCOME BACK ( really need you in Hall of the Dwarven Lord  )
> 
> HM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >.>  I told you all I was gonna be gone for a week!
> 
> Anyways, I'll try to get that druid for HoDL in the next day or so, just having issues deterimining the attributes for him, since PF's rules make spreading stats across a wider range more costly than standard 3.5 rules.
Click to expand...


----------



## HolyMan

*cricket,cricket*

Hmm... very quiet in the IC what would everyone like for me to do??

I could advance the night forward and start marching after which I have a campfire tale to tell. About Martomum/Fallon/Bairan/Dellex I also have an in the Off to War "mission" for a few members (guard duty for Hralfgar and a circle may form for Aidan) and another side quest ready. But you know you don't have to be a part of any of this to still be in campaign the whole reason for this "Style" of play, is to get lost in the crowd for a little bit till you have the time to commit to any part. 

Let me know this is OUR game and wants everyone to have a great time.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Hello all and HM. Thanks to your answers in our PMs, I've nearly got my character done...

I just want to know if flaws are allowed... Flaws are here.

If you say no, then I'll just knock off those two extra feats (Imp. Trip and Combat Reflexes, as marked)

[sblock=Jareth Kyras]
Name: Jareth Kyras
Player: Dragonwriter

Race: Human
Class: Duskblade (PH2)
Level: 1
ECL: +0 mod/total 1
XPs: 0 current/1000 next level

Patron God: None
Alignment: Neutral
=================================== 
Str: 16 (10 points)
Dex: 14 (6 points)
Con: 14 (6 points)
Int: 16 (10 points)
Wis: 11 (3 points)
Cha: 8 (0 points)
=================================== 
HP: 10 (d8+2)
AC: 15 (+2 Dex, +3 Armor)
Init: +2
Speed: 30 feet
BAB: +1
Mel: +4
Rng: +3
Fort: +2+2
Refl: +0+2
Will: +2+0
=================================== 
Special Abilities 
Race: Bonus Feat, Bonus Skill Point (x4 at 1st level)

Class: Arcane Attunement (6/day), Armored Mage (light), spellcasting

Other: 

=================================== 
Feats: Magical Aptitude (bonus HR) Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Combat Expertise, 

=================================== 
Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Orcish

=================================== 
Skills (8/level (2+2 HR+1+Int), x4 at 1st)
Trained or Untrained: +X (=Rank + Stat Mod + Other)
Climb +6 (=4+3-1)
Concentration +6 (=4+2+0)
Ride +6 (=4+2+0)
Sense Motive +4 (=4+0+0)
Swim +5 (=4+3-2)
Listen -4 (=0+0-4)
Spot -4 (=0+0-4)

Trained Only: +X (=Rank + Stat Mod + Other)
Decipher Script +7 (=4+3+0)
Knowledge (arcana) +7 (=4+3+0)
Spellcraft +9 (=4+3+2)
=================================== 
Magic Items (location, weight): None

=================================== 
Other Equipment:
Weapons: Spiked Chain +4 melee (2d4+4 piercing, 10 lbs, 25 GP)

Armor, Clothes: Studded Leather (+3 AC, +5 max DEX, -1 ACP, 20 lbs, 25 GP), Traveler’s outfit (free), Signet Ring on his left index finger (5 GP, 0 lbs)

----------------------------------- 
Container: Backpack

Contents: bedroll, hemp rope (50 ft.), 2 sunrods, 10 days of trail rations, 


Container: Belt Pouch 1

Contents: flint and steel, waterskin,

Container: Belt Pouch 2

Contents: coins

And a spell component pouch on his belt as well.

----------------------------------- 
Money 
PP: 6
GP: 13
SP: 10
CP: 0
Gems/Other: 0
----------------------------------- 
Load 
Light: 0-76 lbs.
Medium: 77-153 lbs.
Heavy: 154-230 lbs.
Current: ~65 lbs.
===================================
Magic 
Caster Level: 1 (DC 13+level)
Spells per day: 3/3
Lvl 0 Spells: Touch of Fatigue, Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Disrupt Undead
Lvl 1 Spells: Color Spray, Shocking Grasp
Lvl 2 Spells: 
Lvl 3 Spells: 
Lvl 4 Spells: 
Lvl 5 Spells: 
Lvl 6 Spells: 
Lvl 7 Spells: 
Lvl 8 Spells: 
Lvl 9 Spells: 
=================================== 
Description (include Age, gender, height, weight, physical description): 
Jareth is a young man, barely 19 years of age, standing at 5’10” and weighing about 115 pounds. His short red hair frames a soft-looking face, while his bright green eyes seem to always be searching for something. He cuts a reasonable figure, taut muscles in his arms and chest, a slim waist and all-around athletic build. However, his face is regularly scowling (no matter what he is thinking) and he has a tendency to hunch a little.
He generally wears his slightly-beaten suit of studded leather armor, and coils a vicious-looking length of spiked chain at his hip. The chain never leaves his side, though he does remove the armor at times. The strange weapon is not the only thing that tends to set him apart… A signet ring with the blazoning of a sword lying across a book can sometimes be glimpsed on his left index finger, though he usually wears gloves which cover the ring itself.
=================================== 
History:
Jareth was born the second son of four (and had two younger sisters) to Pesh’s ambassador to the elves. While he was a good kid, he was lazy, despite his parents trying to instill a work ethic in him. Much to their own detriment, his father tried to get young Jareth interested in the magic of the elves. The kid was too lazy for all that book-studying, though he did enjoy the results of magic. He preferred to play around, running, climbing and mock-fighting with his brothers. His father appealed to the elves (who considered him a friend). They watched the boy and learned more about him and his interests, then offered to train him in the ways of the elven warrior-mages, the Order of the Duskblades. The child (actually, by this time he was 12) was skeptical, but agreed to watch some of the members show what he might be able to learn.

The elven sword-wizards hugely impressed the boy, throwing small blasts of fire at each other and slicing expertly through the air with their razor-sharp swords, leaving glistening arcs of lightning in the air when they missed and vicious blasts of electrical discharge when they landed. He thrilled at the opportunity! Over the next six years, he demonstrated an uncanny knack for the art of the duskblades, even learning how to skillfully wield the unusual spiked chain (though his first try ended with him badly spraining his wrist). However, he didn’t care for his parents nigh-constantly pushing him to do more. He would occasionally lash out at them verbally, not thinking of what he would say. His training wasn’t quite done when his father was recalled by Pesh’s government to speak with the Treylor Empire, to try diffusing the slowly growing hostilities. The elves offered to keep the boy on and finish his training, then send him along to his father, to which they all agreed, though Jareth’s father left with some regret.

The next year saw Jareth finish his training, upon which his elven teachers presented him with a new chain to use as a weapon, one they said had been commissioned by his father as a gift for him when he was finished. The elves gave him a mount and directions to reach his father in Treylor. The young man, though, had different ideas. He rode back to Pesh, sold the horse and started working as a bodyguard for merchants and the like. Two months after his arrival, soldiers appeared at the small apartment he was staying in. They brought grim news… His father had been executed in Treylor as they mobilized for war, and of the rest of his family, there was no word. The soldiers handed him a consolation letter from the government and his father’s signet ring, then left abruptly. Jareth was stunned…

He sat there, ignoring hunger and the passage of time, simply in shock. Then he realized what he needed to do. His father had been the reason for his talents and his current work. He would use them against Treylor, would make Treylor pay in blood! He immediately went to the nearest army garrison, volunteering to head straight to the front lines…
[/sblock]

And Jareth is ready for an intro whenever you get around to it (since you've said the crunch isn't needed to be quite finished for an intro anyway).


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry Dragonwriter we aren't using flaws in this game I didn't know about them but if you want to develop a flaw over time and at the same time develop a feat well that might be cause for looking into. Goes for everyone!!  lets develop characters over time and see what we get.

will check your character today... so you can post him in RG and join us...

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Sorry Dragonwriter we aren't using flaws in this game I didn't know about them but if you want to develop a flaw over time and at the same time develop a feat well that might be cause for looking into. Goes for everyone!!  lets develop characters over time and see what we get.
> 
> will check your character today... so you can post him in RG and join us...
> 
> HM




No biggie. Figured I'd check (though I coulda sworn I gave you that link before, for the DCC #8 game...). Developing them doesn't make much sense to me (seeing as they're supposed to be something you start with and always have), but I'm willing to give it a try.

And to Myth, I applaud you for linking those YouTube videos. Not enough people realize just what the gear and actual fighting (and styles) were like.


----------



## HolyMan

Started this game in July didnt know of flaws then found out about them when I was trying to make a character for a game in Sept 

developed flaw-- missing one arm I'm sure I could help with that one lol

PMed you about swaping didnt know you were still on

And it says Duskblade [PH2] is that the same as this cyrstal keep one i have up????

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Started this game in July didnt know of flaws then found out about them when I was trying to make a character for a game in Sept
> 
> developed flaw-- missing one arm I'm sure I could help with that one lol
> 
> PMed you about swaping didnt know you were still on
> 
> And it says Duskblade [PH2] is that the same as this cyrstal keep one i have up????
> 
> HM




Rather not have that one... Spiked Chain needs two hands... 

Yeah, that's the same Duskblade, though Crystal Keep isn't always accurate... They have a distinct tendency to leave things out... Duskblades get Medium and Heavy Armor in addition to Light and all Shields (except tower shields). And the Duskblade spell list isn't on Crystal Keep... grrrrr...... But I only chose spells that are in the PHB to start with anyway.
EDIT: Also, Crystal Keep is wrong about the Quick Cast/day thing... It's 1/day at 5th level, then +1/day every 5th level afterwards (10, 15, 20).

I'd be okay with swapping several things out, since they don't really fit Jareth (med and heavy armor, any other kind of weapon). If you're okay with swinging trading medium and heavy armor and all shields for Dodge (and maybe Mobility?) I'm okay with that trade. And I'd be willing to trade Jareth's entire martial proficiency for Spiked Chain proficiency (though, in all honesty, that may be a bit imbalanced, since Spiked Chains are insanely good), or trade the martial proficiency for a bonus feat like Power Attack, Improved Trip, or Combat Reflexes.

EDIT: And I got your PM about my background. Changing things to Fanshaw instead.


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> Rather not have that one... Spiked Chain needs two hands...
> 
> Yeah, that's the same Duskblade, though Crystal Keep isn't always accurate... They have a distinct tendency to leave things out... Duskblades get Medium and Heavy Armor in addition to Light and all Shields (except tower shields). And the Duskblade spell list isn't on Crystal Keep... grrrrr...... But I only chose spells that are in the PHB to start with anyway.
> EDIT: Also, Crystal Keep is wrong about the Quick Cast/day thing... It's 1/day at 5th level, then +1/day every 5th level afterwards (10, 15, 20).
> 
> I'd be okay with swapping several things out, since they don't really fit Jareth (med and heavy armor, any other kind of weapon). If you're okay with swinging trading medium and heavy armor and all shields for Dodge (and maybe Mobility?) I'm okay with that trade. And I'd be willing to trade Jareth's entire martial proficiency for Spiked Chain proficiency (though, in all honesty, that may be a bit imbalanced, since Spiked Chains are insanely good), or trade the martial proficiency for a bonus feat like Power Attack, Improved Trip, or Combat Reflexes.





All those swaps seem reasonable-- go down to light armor only and get Dodge/Mobility and lose all martial weapon Profs for a feat

just be sure to note changes somewhere and I may need wysiwyg to check your character because I don't have PHB2 and do you want Tumble as a class skill???


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> All those swaps seem reasonable-- go down to light armor only and get Dodge/Mobility and lose all martial weapon Profs for a feat
> 
> just be sure to note changes somewhere and I may need wysiwyg to check your character because I don't have PHB2 and do you want Tumble as a class skill???




Sure, I'll take care of those on the sheet, with an extra sblock to track the changes.

And I wouldn't mind trading some class skills for Tumble at all. 

I can picture my character rolling right into the center of a group, lashing out with a vicious chain sparking with electricity, then sweeping their legs out from under them or just knocking them over with the force of the blow.


----------



## HolyMan

Sounds outstanding let me know when changes are complete I willcheck what I can.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

HolyMan said:


> *cricket,cricket*
> 
> Hmm... very quiet in the IC what would everyone like for me to do??
> 
> I could advance the night forward and start marching after which I have a campfire tale to tell. About Martomum/Fallon/Bairan/Dellex I also have an in the Off to War "mission" for a few members (guard duty for Hralfgar and a circle may form for Aidan) and another side quest ready. But you know you don't have to be a part of any of this to still be in campaign the whole reason for this "Style" of play, is to get lost in the crowd for a little bit till you have the time to commit to any part.
> 
> Let me know this is OUR game and wants everyone to have a great time.
> 
> HM




Just putting this on this page so nobody misses it. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Okay, here's Jareth with the changes we discussed.

[sblock=Jareth, v2]
Name: Jareth Kyras
Player: Dragonwriter

Race: Human
Class: Duskblade (PH2)
Level: 1
ECL: +0 mod/total 1
XPs: 0 current/1000 next level

Patron God: None
Alignment: Neutral
=================================== 
Str: 16 (10 points)
Dex: 14 (6 points)
Con: 14 (6 points)
Int: 16 (10 points)
Wis: 11 (3 points)
Cha: 8 (0 points)
=================================== 
HP: 10 (d8+2)
AC: 15 (+2 Dex, +3 Armor)
Init: +2
Speed: 30 feet
BAB: +1
Mel: +4
Rng: +3
Fort: +2+2
Refl: +0+2
Will: +2+0
=================================== 
Special Abilities 
Race: Bonus Feat, Bonus Skill Point (x4 at 1st level)

Class: Arcane Attunement (6/day), Armored Mage (light), spellcasting

Other: 

=================================== 
Feats: Magical Aptitude (bonus HR) Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Combat Expertise, Dodge (bonus trade), Mobility (bonus trade), Improved Trip (bonus trade)

=================================== 
Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Orcish

=================================== 
Skills (8/level (2+2 HR+1+Int), x4 at 1st)
Trained or Untrained: +X (=Rank + Stat Mod + Other)
Climb +5 (=3+3-1)
Concentration +6 (=4+2+0)
Jump +5 (=3+3-1)
Ride +5 (=3+2+0)
Sense Motive +4 (=4+0+0)
Swim +4 (=3+3-2)
Listen -4 (=0+0-4)
Spot -4 (=0+0-4)

Trained Only: +X (=Rank + Stat Mod + Other)
Knowledge (arcana) +7 (=4+3+0)
Spellcraft +9 (=4+3+2)
Tumble +5 (=4+2-1)
=================================== 
Magic Items (location, weight): None

=================================== 
Other Equipment:
Weapons: Spiked Chain +4 melee (2d4+4 piercing, 10 lbs, 25 GP)

Armor, Clothes: Studded Leather (+3 AC, +5 max DEX, -1 ACP, 20 lbs, 25 GP), Traveler’s outfit (free), Signet Ring on his left index finger (5 GP, 0 lbs)

----------------------------------- 
Container: Backpack

Contents: bedroll, hemp rope (50 ft.), 2 sunrods, 10 days of trail rations, 


Container: Belt Pouch 1

Contents: flint and steel, waterskin,

Container: Belt Pouch 2

Contents: coins

And a spell component pouch on his belt as well.

----------------------------------- 
Money 
PP: 6
GP: 13
SP: 10
CP: 0
Gems/Other: 0
----------------------------------- 
Load 
Light: 0-76 lbs.
Medium: 77-153 lbs.
Heavy: 154-230 lbs.
Current: ~65 lbs.
===================================
Magic 
Caster Level: 1 (DC 13+level)
Spells per day: 3/3
Lvl 0 Spells: Touch of Fatigue, Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Disrupt Undead
Lvl 1 Spells: Color Spray, Shocking Grasp
Lvl 2 Spells: 
Lvl 3 Spells: 
Lvl 4 Spells: 
Lvl 5 Spells: 
Lvl 6 Spells: 
Lvl 7 Spells: 
Lvl 8 Spells: 
Lvl 9 Spells: 
=================================== 
Description (include Age, gender, height, weight, physical description): 
Jareth is a young man, barely 19 years of age, standing at 5’10” and weighing about 115 pounds. His short red hair frames a soft-looking face, while his bright green eyes seem to always be searching for something. He cuts a reasonable figure, taut muscles in his arms and chest, a slim waist and all-around athletic build. However, his face is regularly scowling (no matter what he is thinking) and he has a tendency to hunch a little.
He generally wears his slightly-beaten suit of studded leather armor, and coils a vicious-looking length of spiked chain at his hip. The chain never leaves his side, though he does remove the armor at times. The strange weapon is not the only thing that tends to set him apart… A signet ring with the blazoning of a sword lying across a book can sometimes be glimpsed on his left index finger, though he usually wears gloves which cover the ring itself.
=================================== 
History:
Jareth was born the second son of four (and had two younger sisters) to Pesh’s ambassador to the elves. While he was a good kid, he was lazy, despite his parents trying to instill a work ethic in him. Much to their own detriment, his father tried to get young Jareth interested in the magic of the elves. The kid was too lazy for all that book-studying, though he did enjoy the results of magic. He preferred to play around, running, climbing and mock-fighting with his brothers. His father appealed to a half-elven friend, a skilled duskblade in his own right, to help him and find a path for his son. This friend, Tharivol Ilphunodel, watched the boy and learned more about him and his interests, then offered to train him in the ways of the elven warrior-mages, the Order of the Duskblades. The child (actually, by this time he was 12) was skeptical, but agreed to watch Tharivol show what he might be able to learn.

The half-elven sword-wizard hugely impressed the boy, throwing small blasts of fire at a simple dummy and slicing expertly through the air with their razor-sharp swords, leaving glistening arcs of lightning in the air when they missed and vicious blasts of electrical discharge when they landed. He thrilled at the opportunity! Over the next six years, Tharivol trained him in secret, though his own understanding and teaching was different from his own instructors, teaching Jareth a different fighting style. The boy demonstrated an uncanny knack for the art of the duskblades, even learning how to skillfully wield the unusual spiked chain (though his first try ended with him badly spraining his wrist). However, he didn’t care for his parents nigh-constantly pushing him to do more. He would occasionally lash out at them verbally, not thinking of what he would say. His training wasn’t quite done when his father was recalled by Pesh’s government to speak with the Treylor Empire, to try diffusing the slowly growing hostilities. Tharivol offered to keep the boy on and finish his training, then send him along to his father, to which they all agreed, though Jareth’s father left with some regret.

The next year saw Jareth finish his training, upon which his half-elven teacher presented him with a new chain to use as a weapon, one he said had been commissioned by his father as a gift for him when he was finished. Tharivol gave him a mount and directions to reach his father in Treylor. The young man, though, had different ideas. He rode back to Pesh, sold the horse and started working as a bodyguard for merchants and the like. Two months after his arrival, soldiers appeared at the small apartment he was staying in. They brought grim news… His father had been executed in Treylor as they mobilized for war, and of the rest of his family, there was no word. The soldiers handed him a consolation letter from the government and his father’s signet ring, then left abruptly. Jareth was stunned…

He sat there, ignoring hunger and the passage of time, simply in shock. Then he realized what he needed to do. His father had been the reason for his talents and his current work. He would use them against Treylor, would make Treylor pay in blood! He immediately went to the nearest army garrison, volunteering to head straight to the front lines…
[/sblock]

And here's a list of the changes/trades I made from the first sheet. Let me know if they're okay or if I should change anything else.

[sblock=Changes]Traded Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency and Shield Proficiency for Dodge and Mobility feats.

Traded Proficiency with all Martial weapons for bonus feat (Improved Trip).

Traded class skills Craft, Decipher Script, and all Knowledge except Arcana for Tumble as a class skill.

I also rearranged some skill points (removed 1 from Climb, Ride and Swim each, placed them into Jump) and swapped all the skill points that were in Decipher Script for Tumble (4 ranks).

And, I changed his background as requested. [/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

LOVE IT LOVE IT!!!

That background will fit nicely into what I have planned in the near future. +45xp and after I get someone to check your duskblade crunch you can post him into the RG. 

Remember that the last time you saw your mentor was almost a year before you signed on and play out that 8 cha you can get tips from ML 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> LOVE IT LOVE IT!!!
> 
> That background will fit nicely into what I have planned in the near future. +45xp and after I get someone to check your duskblade crunch you can post him into the RG.
> 
> Remember that the last time you saw your mentor was almost a year before you signed on and play out that 8 cha you can get tips from ML
> 
> HM




Wonderful. Thanks very much! 

I figure on playing him as kinda gruff/surly, though well-educated (semi-noble, high INT).

And I'll be ready and waiting for whenever he gets checked out.


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> *cricket,cricket*
> 
> Hmm... very quiet in the IC what would everyone like for me to do??
> 
> I could advance the night forward and start marching after which I have a campfire tale to tell. About Martomum/Fallon/Bairan/Dellex I also have an in the Off to War "mission" for a few members (guard duty for Hralfgar and a circle may form for Aidan) and another side quest ready. But you know you don't have to be a part of any of this to still be in campaign the whole reason for this "Style" of play, is to get lost in the crowd for a little bit till you have the time to commit to any part.
> 
> Let me know this is OUR game and wants everyone to have a great time.
> 
> HM



Fast foward to morning is fine by me. I actually had a post prepared yesterday where Trinham was going to sleep. However, yesterday was a bit hectic so it never got posted.

BTW. The Search in the dark crowd still has not been introduced to the stay at camp crowd in game.


----------



## Theroc

Will try to reply soon, was giving everyone else a chance to post and such too.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sorry for the wait HM, i have been busy and EN world came second :/ Anyway i leveled up Lora to Lvl 2. BTW how much gold did she get from Dellex? Also, were we not supposed to roll our craft checks to get extra gold? Also, IC is down, so i couldn't roll HP. Ah, and the two spells i want Lora to learn at lvl 2 are both from the Spell Compendium. I have listed the descriptions and details as they are in the book, i hope that's ok with you?


----------



## HolyMan

It's late and 

I have a date 

Will look at Lora

In the Mora(??)

HM


----------



## Theroc

HM, for Aidan's level-up, what remains to be done?  I did some before I left, but I think there was more I needed to get done.


----------



## HolyMan

@ Theroc and ML:

Aidan just needs hp (I could roll for both of you here at the house if IC is still down, but don't need them quiet yet) and he is ready

Lora needs hp and I find the spell chioces acceptable, and the one will come in handy in a mass combat type battle switching out wounded warriors for fresh

you only listed the 1st lvl spell gained you also get another 0-lvl making it 4/day then i think she is ready

both of you got 15gp in the small coin pouch as well as the brooch.
and craft checks are done at the end of the month (in game)to see what extra income you have generated (it hasn't even been one day lol in game)

[sblock=Level 2] Also could you put all your info in the post in an sblock like this so it is together and easily foindable later thanks [/sblock]


----------



## Myth and Legend

Oh yes the 4th cantrip - i had added that to the actual sheet but forgot to mention it in the lvl up post. All should be ok now.


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> I can picture my character rolling right into the center of a group, lashing out with a vicious chain sparking with electricity, then sweeping their legs out from under them or just knocking them over with the force of the blow.




Aidan and your character should do this in tandem to adjacent groups of enemies.  It'd be like a scene in a movie or something, lol.

Aidan is going to be a control fighter.  I planned on having him use a spiked chain for reach attacks and unarmed blows if they came adjacent.  Be a funny surprise.

Also, HM, IC is still down.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> Aidan and your character should do this in tandem to adjacent groups of enemies.  It'd be like a scene in a movie or something, lol.
> 
> Aidan is going to be a control fighter.  I planned on having him use a spiked chain for reach attacks and unarmed blows if they came adjacent.  Be a funny surprise.




Sounds like fun ! I'm setting Jareth up to do some trip-control, but also skirmishing with heavy hits (Spring Attack and will go for Whirlwind Attack eventually). He really wants to be on the front lines when the major fighting starts...


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hmm i was originally aiming for Lora to be a warrior/mage and getting to WW attack. However now i think she will not have enough feats..


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Hmm i was originally aiming for Lora to be a warrior/mage and getting to WW attack. However now i think she will not have enough feats..




Why is that?? you know you could take a lvl of another class and develop something just make sure you play it in game as well then it will be np for you to collect some extra feats

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Great!  We'll see how things go past lvl 6 Wizard. BTW the IC for Valley of the Dead is up, just so you know.


----------



## Theroc

Still not sure what I need to do to finalize Aidan's levelup.  Put the stuff in the second post in the main post, and put that in a spoiler as well?

Also, is IC running yet?  If not, HM, could you roll our HP's?


----------



## HolyMan

I heard IC is running now 

All you need do is change numbers in "main" post and put the spoiler in the "LVL UP" post.

And you should be good let me know when that's done I'll give your character sheet the once over.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok i didn't wait for you to let me know before I checked in on Aidan sorry here are some things I found missing in character post:

-Should say Level: 2
-Flat footed AC is 12 (CHA bonus applies)
-All attacks need BAB added to them (i.e. unarmed strike +2, sickle +2 etc.)
-total skill points is 39 and max ranks should read 5/2.5
-skill points spent I believe to be 38 (plz double check my double check)
-free outfit not listed in equipment (I think it should be peasant or monks)
-add 20gp to gold and bear headed brooch(still not appraised) to sheet

And I think Aidan will be set

EDIT: As I am looking over ML's character i noticed something amiss and I think it as on someone elses sheet also but under languages it would be more common to understand Gnoll than it would to have Orc so if anyone would like to make the switch go ahead and then let me know. thank you.

*Note to ALL XP will be givin out tomorrow night and I will be fast forwarding while I have the day off so any last minute questions/intros plz do in the next 36 hours thank you.*


HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> *Note to ALL XP will be givin out tomorrow night and I will be fast forwarding while I have the day off so any last minute questions/intros plz do in the next 36 hours thank you.*
> 
> 
> HM




I'm still hangin' around, waiting for someone to double-check my Duskblade (anyone with PH2 in this group?)... Though Jareth should be good for RP in the meantime... 

Seeing as I'd rather not just barge in (though Jareth might do that...), do you think you could give me an intro soon, HM?


----------



## HolyMan

Your intro will be in tommorrow nights set up for a new game DW yes as long as you have description and basics down you should be good.

I'm at the library right now they have a DMG2 for 3.5 but no PHB2 weird that is.

So sit tight and I will intro you into the group tomorrow night and you can start RPing on the 1st and thanks for the patience 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Your intro will be in tommorrow nights set up for a new game DW yes as long as you have description and basics down you should be good.
> 
> I'm at the library right now they have a DMG2 for 3.5 but no PHB2 weird that is.
> 
> So sit tight and I will intro you into the group tomorrow night and you can start RPing on the 1st and thanks for the patience
> 
> HM




Excellent, thanks very much!

And that is funny, but libraries are a tricky source for D&D references...


----------



## Myth and Legend

I have the PHB2... Need some help HM?


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Ok i didn't wait for you to let me know before I checked in on Aidan sorry here are some things I found missing in character post:
> 
> -Should say Level: 2
> -Flat footed AC is 12 (CHA bonus applies)
> -All attacks need BAB added to them (i.e. unarmed strike +2, sickle +2 etc.)
> -total skill points is 39 and max ranks should read 5/2.5
> -skill points spent I believe to be 38 (plz double check my double check)
> -free outfit not listed in equipment (I think it should be peasant or monks)
> -add 20gp to gold and bear headed brooch(still not appraised) to sheet
> 
> And I think Aidan will be set



Whoops, forgot the level, lol.
Somehow we missed the flatfooted during the original creation, lol.
Little confused on the total skill points.
Monk with the +2 bonus to skills you mentioned means Aidan started with 7(6+1) X4 skillpoints, which is 28.
Level two rolls around, it'd be 7(6+1)+1
28+6=34
For my skillpoints spent I have 37.  So, I'm definitely mixed up somewhere.
For free outfit, how much does a peasant outfit weigh?
For the brooch, how much does it weigh?


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> I have the PHB2... Need some help HM?




yes I do!! could you peek and DW's character on the pervious page and do a little number crunching in your free time 

Thanks in Advance 

HM

edit; almost forgot i was looking over Lora and need to know if you are done with the lvl up Invisible Castle should be up for hp


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Whoops, forgot the level, lol.
> Somehow we missed the flatfooted during the original creation, lol.
> Little confused on the total skill points.
> Monk with the +2 bonus to skills you mentioned means Aidan started with 7(6+1) X4 skillpoints, which is 28.
> Level two rolls around, it'd be 7(6+1)+1
> 28+6=34
> For my skillpoints spent I have 37. So, I'm definitely mixed up somewhere.
> For free outfit, how much does a peasant outfit weigh?
> For the brooch, how much does it weigh?




lets see where to start:
-yep missed at creation cuse I don't play monks much
-skill points = 6+1x4 + 4 = 32 at first lvl and 6+1 = 7 at 2nd lvl total 39 
-no weight for the outfit you wear
- brooch has no weight is like 3 ounces[sp?]

FOR ML:

didn't add the synergy bonuses for know(local),know(nobility),know(arcana),craft, and spellcraft 
and max lvls should read 5/2.5 and total skill points = 45
for money can't find your craft roll it is linked in sheet i have you at 20 gp 3 sp for leftover money and adding the 20gp you recieved  making gold on person 40gp, 3sp


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> lets see where to start:
> -yep missed at creation cuse I don't play monks much
> -skill points = 6+1x4 + 4 = 32 at first lvl and 6+1 = 7 at 2nd lvl total 39
> -no weight for the outfit you wear
> - brooch has no weight is like 3 ounces[sp?]



-lol, yeah
-Doh!
-Yay.
-Goodie.  Aidan can't carry much yet.


----------



## Myth and Legend

> didn't add the synergy bonuses for know(local),know(nobility),know(arcana),craft, and spellcraft



*slaps forhead* damn i always seem to be forgetting those



> and max lvls should read 5/2.5 and total skill points = 45



yep i neglected that part



> for money can't find your craft roll it is linked in sheet i have you at 20 gp 3 sp for leftover money and adding the 20gp you recieved making gold on person 40gp, 3sp



I didn't make any craft roll yet.. If gp on person are 40 than i'll use that. I suck at math honestly, I downright despise it 

BTW, Theroc, you went on a posting spree or what  And even a community supporter now. See that's why i say one should never discriminate against new players!


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> BTW, Theroc, you went on a posting spree or what  And even a community supporter now. See that's why i say one should never discriminate against new players!




Well, I'm a community supporter because I notified Morrus of a typo in his announcement regarding the changes to them.  I got an honorary month status for it.

As for a posting spree... well, I'm in... pfft... I don't even know how many games.

I'm almost always in at least five games, because this is my entertainment and what keeps me sane atm.


----------



## HolyMan

as soon as I have some extra cash I will be spending it here instead of on a new book (Don't have that many books anyway lol why try to add to it)

Congrats on the free month hope you continue to support EnWorld Theroc like you this is my relaxation/hobby as there are no RL games in my area (well one but that is Monty Hall to the Nth degree and I hated it)

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> as soon as I have some extra cash I will be spending it here instead of on a new book (Don't have that many books anyway lol why try to add to it)
> 
> Congrats on the free month hope you continue to support EnWorld Theroc like you this is my relaxation/hobby as there are no RL games in my area (well one but that is Monty Hall to the Nth degree and I hated it)
> 
> HM




Once I get a job, I'll definitely see about supporting Enworld.  As well as trying to slot money to collect splatbooks I'd like.  Primarily 3.5 books atm, since they are no longer in print, and 3.5 is what I started on, for the most part.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok i have counted this twice so i need someone else to help 


		Code:
	

[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Jump                       2    +1     +4    =7
Balance                    2    +2     +2    =6
Climb                      2    +1     +0    =3
Concentration              2    +2     +0    =4
Craft(Bowmaking)           4    +1     +0    =5
Hide                       2    +2     +0    =4
Knwdge(Geography)          1    +1     +0    =2
Bluff                      2    +2     +0    =3
Listen                     4    +1     +0    =5
Move Silently              2    +2     +0    =4
Sense Motive               2    +1     +0    =3
Spot                       4    +1     +0    =5
Swim                       2    +1     +0    =3
Tumble                     5    +2     +2    =9
Diplomacy                  2    +2     +0    =4

 
total ranks = 38 right???

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Ok i have counted this twice so i need someone else to help
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
> Jump                       2    +1     +4    =7
> Balance                    2    +2     +2    =6
> Climb                      2    +1     +0    =3
> Concentration              2    +2     +0    =4
> Craft(Bowmaking)           4    +1     +0    =5
> Hide                       2    +2     +0    =4
> Knwdge(Geography)          1    +1     +0    =2
> Bluff                      2    +2     +0    =3
> Listen                     4    +1     +0    =5
> Move Silently              2    +2     +0    =4
> Sense Motive               2    +1     +0    =3
> Spot                       4    +1     +0    =5
> Swim                       2    +1     +0    =3
> Tumble                     5    +2     +2    =9
> Diplomacy                  2    +2     +0    =4
> 
> total ranks = 38 right???
> 
> HM




Got 38 this time.  x.x apparently I have trouble counting in this format.


----------



## HolyMan

Same here lol guess u have one skill point to spend then you will be LVL 2 offically and I hope you are rdy for a little rp/circle fighting

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Same here lol guess u have one skill point to spend then you will be LVL 2 offically and I hope you are rdy for a little rp/circle fighting
> 
> HM





Hopefully I won't get taken out by one simple blow next time...


----------



## HolyMan

Nope but you have to admit it made for a great story almost like a movie you trying to defend and since your young the veteran got in a quick knee and down you went like IC knew what needed to be done lol

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Nope but you have to admit it made for a great story almost like a movie you trying to defend and since your young the veteran got in a quick knee and down you went like IC knew what needed to be done lol
> 
> HM




True, though I think Aidan kickin' his arse would have made for a good story too.  Maybe wouldn't have looked as good with Lora though.


----------



## HolyMan

catching up as tomorrow is a big day for Off to War but haven't heard from wyswiyg in IC 

You out there buddy??? Athos just sitting by the fire quietly adjusting to his new armor.

And FM I know has class and a RL but he will be around I am sure.

ok off to bed and tommorrow will kick the IC in the pants and start towards another sub quest and mini adventures for a few of you.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@Dragonwriter:

First thanks for the 5 parts on the totem warriors I'm sure that was not easy and I owe you one 

Second I am doing XP & checking the RG and would like you to post your character there as long as you have a description and background (which you do) then I will add you to the roll call and you can start earning XP this next go round. 

Also will be telling you a little via pm about what is going on in the IC up to you and your 8 cha to decide what you tell everyone else LOL

@Myth and Legend:

 If you have time to check DW's crunch for his character I will owe you one (boy i will owe a lot of favors) so he can take part in the up coming quest.

Also need a go-no-go on finishing my double check of Lora

@Theroc:

Need a go-no-go for Aidan (all i really need do is count those crazy skills lol)

@Everyone Else

Hello 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @Dragonwriter:
> 
> First thanks for the 5 parts on the totem warriors I'm sure that was not easy and I owe you one
> 
> Second I am doing XP & checking the RG and would like you to post your character there as long as you have a description and background (which you do) then I will add you to the roll call and you can start earning XP this next go round.
> 
> Also will be telling you a little via pm about what is going on in the IC up to you and your 8 cha to decide what you tell everyone else LOL




Not at all. 

And I'll post Jareth to the RG. I have read through the IC, so I know what's happened, though Jareth doesn't.


----------



## Dej Koosh

Hey I'm Jed and I'm kind of new to enworld but I've been playing D&D for a few years now and I would like to join this campagain.

I've got a couple questions though.
What is your starting gold?  Would I be aloud to make a cross class between the Ranger and the Scout (adventurer's handbook)? Maybe give the scout the Longbow, track, and a full progression BAB. Let me know what you think.  You can never have to much D&D.


----------



## HolyMan

Dej Koosh said:


> Hey I'm Jed and I'm kind of new to enworld but I've been playing D&D for a few years now and I would like to join this campagain.
> 
> I've got a couple questions though.
> What is your starting gold? Would I be aloud to make a cross class between the Ranger and the Scout (adventurer's handbook)? Maybe give the scout the Longbow, track, and a full progression BAB. Let me know what you think.



Welcome to EnWorld Jed,

A ranger would be useful for this upcoming quest and you may twik any class you like from the PHB. If you want a base class from somewhere else you will need to send me the info in some form. What I remember about scouts is they have a rogue type sneak attack damage. So you want a tracking, bow wielding, warrior who gets to deal extra dmg within thirty feet?

Also characters recieve their average gold for class as listed in the PHB pg 111 example: Barbarian 4d4x10(100gp) so your starting gold would be 100gp

Also Welcome to Off To War



Dej Koosh said:


> You can never have to much D&D.




true true stop in the new guy thread and say hello to everyone

HM


----------



## Dej Koosh

The scout has the skirmish ability which is similiar to sneak attack but instead of catching them flat footed, all you have to do is move at least 10 ft in that round.  This makes the scout a completely mobile character.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Sept 16th-Sept 30th*



		Code:
	

ghostcat                          360
Erwinfoxjj                        340
wysiwyg                           210
Myth and Legend                    70
Theroc                             90
Frozen Messiah                     65

 
*Congrats to ghostcat and Erwinfoxjj both who are now Level 2!!!*

I knew that the quest xp would even out the RP xp ML and Theroc got.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Dej Koosh said:


> The scout has the skirmish ability which is similiar to sneak attack but instead of catching them flat footed, all you have to do is move at least 10 ft in that round. This makes the scout a completely mobile character.





Hmmm so he can use it whenever so long as he moves hmmmm....

is there a max range for the damage to apply like the sneak attacks 30'??

I will help you get what you want just need to keep in balance 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Hmmm so he can use it whenever so long as he moves hmmmm....
> 
> is there a max range for the damage to apply like the sneak attacks 30'??
> 
> I will help you get what you want just need to keep in balance
> 
> HM




According to Crystalkeep:
"Skirmish +Nd6, +X AC – in a round where the Scout moves 10’ or more from his/her starting position, the Scout does +Nd6 damage with all melee attacks & all
ranged attack within 30’. Only creatures vulnerable to critical hits are vulnerable to the extra damage. Also, the Scout receives a +X Competence bonus to AC
in those same rounds. This class feature does not apply when mounted."


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> According to Crystalkeep:
> "Skirmish +Nd6, +X AC – in a round where the Scout moves 10’ or more from his/her starting position, the Scout does +Nd6 damage with all melee attacks & all
> ranged attack within 30’. Only creatures vulnerable to critical hits are vulnerable to the extra damage. Also, the Scout receives a +X Competence bonus to AC
> in those same rounds. This class feature does not apply when mounted."




Thanks Theroc, what do you think of this ability my first impersion is it does alot and with a minor draw back (for the campaign not much dungeon crawling) which leads me to believe the compensate by weakening the Scout in other areas. Would rather give a ranger sneak attack progression than give a scout better weapon selection/high BAB 

but that is just at a glance at 1:00 in the morning a little more info would be great.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Thanks Theroc, what do you think of this ability my first impersion is it does alot and with a minor draw back (for the campaign not much dungeon crawling) which leads me to believe the compensate by weakening the Scout in other areas. Would rather give a ranger sneak attack progression than give a scout better weapon selection/high BAB
> 
> but that is just at a glance at 1:00 in the morning a little more info would be great.
> 
> HM




Well, the distance means the scout must get in charging range... which means they are susceptible to being engage in melee combat, which would require the Scout to tumble around his opponent in circles to get his Skirmish bonus, but even then he doesn't wanna stay close, as a full attack would likely hurt badly when we start getting iterative attacks.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok a scout isn't much for melee but what if you gave this ability to a ranger something I have been missing with my homebrewed classes is giving things to classes that shouldn't have anymore abilities

the swap rule came about to help make different types of fighters at first then for clerics who would never use heavy armor to "swap" out that feat for something new 

and now I have a whole chart lol

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Ok a scout isn't much for melee but what if you gave this ability to a ranger something I have been missing with my homebrewed classes is giving things to classes that shouldn't have anymore abilities
> 
> the swap rule came about to help make different types of fighters at first then for clerics who would never use heavy armor to "swap" out that feat for something new
> 
> and now I have a whole chart lol
> 
> HM




I feel the Ranger should lose something.  Perhaps Favored Enemy?  Scouts are a skill-based class, and only have Cleric BAB.  Giving this to a Ranger would be somewhat similar to giving Sneak Attack to a fighter.

There would need to be some tradeoff, I'd say.


----------



## wysiwyg

Hi All,
I’m sorry for not posting. Life has been hectic with trying (and still trying) to get a mortgage, medical insurance, family arrangements etc. I am a passive reader at this point until I have a bit more free time on my hands. Very entertaining posts. Keep up the good PbP.


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM: I'll fix Lora's sheet later on today (i'm at work now). I will check over the Duskblade char as well.


----------



## ghostcat

Will try and provide IC justification for Trinham's levelling up.  Is Archimedes still around or did we leave him behind?


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> There would need to be some tradeoff, I'd say.




Yes that we be a definite just need to figure what (maybe a couple things?)



wysiwyg said:


> Hi All,
> I’m sorry for not posting. Life has been hectic with trying (and still trying) to get a mortgage, medical insurance, family arrangements etc. I am a passive reader at this point until I have a bit more free time on my hands. Very entertaining posts. Keep up the good PbP.




Good Luck on everything wysiwyg, wish I could say if you need anything give me a call but there's that big ocean in the way sorry.  You always have a spot here.



Myth and Legend said:


> HM: I'll fix Lora's sheet later on today (i'm at work now). I will check over the Duskblade char as well.




Take your time we have a little RPing to do so you have alot of time.



ghostcat said:


> Will try and provide IC justification for Trinham's levelling up. Is Archimedes still around or did we leave him behind?




Well you did have two weeks of drills, free days to practice the sword and all that casting you did in the woods. Archimedes hmmm... he is there in Bear's camp as an advisor which means it is hard to reach him other than by sending in a note he would come out to the irregular camp though o meet you on the free nights(he has to ride all day and isn't a young man lol)

Which leads me into the weeks passing anyone what to do anything during that time (Scribe Scroll, craft an item, etc.) let me know here in the OOC and then if it's ok (which it should be) then you can post the action or refer to it in th IC

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Equipment from IC*

*Posting the list of equipment here so you can quote this and mark what you want then the next person can quote you and so on...*

Equipment from Martomum:
Backpacks 2
Bedrolls 3
blanket,winter 1
crowbar 1
hammer 1
lantern, hooded 1
mirror,small steel 2
oil,(1 pint flask) 3
pitons 4
belt pouches 2
rations,trail 10 days
rope,hemppen (50') 2
sacks 3
spade 1
tents 2
torches 5
waterskins 3
whetstone 2
antitoxin 2
holy water 2
daggers 2
short swords 2
mace,light 1
crossbow, light 1
20 bolts
handaxe 1


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> *Posting the list of equipment here so you can quote this and mark what you want then the next person can quote you and so on...*
> 
> Equipment from Martomum:
> Backpacks 2
> Bedrolls 3
> blanket,winter 1
> crowbar 1
> hammer 1
> lantern, hooded 1
> mirror,small steel 2
> oil,(1 pint flask) 3
> pitons 4
> belt pouches 2
> rations,trail 10 days
> rope,hemppen (50') 2
> sacks 3
> spade 1
> tents 2
> torches 5 4
> waterskins 3
> whetstone 2
> antitoxin 2
> holy water 2
> daggers 2
> short swords 2
> mace,light 1
> crossbow, light 1
> 20 10 bolts
> handaxe 1



Shield (Light/Metal)

Trinham bags the crossbow plus 10 bolts and one torch. He will also donate a Shield (light/metal).


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> *Posting the list of equipment here so you can quote this and mark what you want then the next person can quote you and so on...*
> 
> Equipment from Martomum:
> Backpacks 2
> Bedrolls 3 - 2(Aidan took one)
> blanket,winter 1
> crowbar 1
> hammer 1
> lantern, hooded 1
> mirror,small steel 2
> oil,(1 pint flask) 3
> pitons 4
> belt pouches 2 - 1 (Aidan took one, if for nothing else but to store the brooch in)
> rations,trail 10 days
> rope,hemppen (50') 2 -1
> sacks 3
> spade 1
> tents 2 -1
> torches 5
> waterskins 3
> whetstone 2
> antitoxin 2
> holy water 2
> daggers 2
> short swords 2
> mace,light 1
> crossbow, light 1
> 20 bolts
> handaxe 1 -1




I suppose we update the RG with new gear?


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Equipment from Martomum:
> Backpacks 2
> Bedrolls 3
> blanket,winter 1
> crowbar 1
> hammer 1
> lantern, hooded 1
> mirror,small steel 2
> oil,(1 pint flask) 3
> pitons 4
> belt pouches 2
> rations,trail 10 days
> rope,hemppen (50') 2
> sacks 3
> spade 1
> tents 2
> torches 5
> waterskins 3
> whetstone 2
> antitoxin 2
> holy water 2
> daggers 2
> short swords 2
> mace,light 1
> crossbow, light 1
> 20 bolts
> handaxe 1




I plan on taking the 2 daggers, can never be to well armed


----------



## Dej Koosh

What if I take away the Ranger's spell casting ability, or I can just take the scout base class and use it's bonus feats to gain track and the human bonus feat to get the long bow?


----------



## Theroc

Dej Koosh said:


> What if I take away the Ranger's spell casting ability, or I can just take the scout base class and use it's bonus feats to gain track and the human bonus feat to get the long bow?




I think HM was leaning away from trading things you don't yet have for other things.  You don't get spellcasting until 4th level, so if you trade that off now, you're basically getting a free extra feature until after 4th level.  Additionally, not having to worry about spellcasting would reduce your MAD, making wisdom much less important allowing you to focus on your combat abilities after that.

Granted, spellcasting is always good, but I almost think losing it for something might be a benefit for the Paladin and Ranger classes(though I'm sure those who know the system better will disagree)


----------



## Dragonwriter

Dej Koosh said:


> What if I take away the Ranger's spell casting ability, or I can just take the scout base class and use it's bonus feats to gain track and the human bonus feat to get the long bow?






Theroc said:


> I think HM was leaning away from trading things you don't yet have for other things.  You don't get spellcasting until 4th level, so if you trade that off now, you're basically getting a free extra feature until after 4th level.  Additionally, not having to worry about spellcasting would reduce your MAD, making wisdom much less important allowing you to focus on your combat abilities after that.
> 
> Granted, spellcasting is always good, but I almost think losing it for something might be a benefit for the Paladin and Ranger classes(though I'm sure those who know the system better will disagree)




Perhaps having the skirmish ability start at 4th level would be workable? That was it isn't trading something for nothing early on. Say at every level the Ranger would gain a new spell level (4, 8, 11, 14), instead he gains part of the Skirmish class feature? I think it would be best to offer the choice of +1d6 damage or +1 AC, for customization purposes (and since giving both would make for a much stronger class).

[sblock=Opinion on Ranger Spells]And speaking as a casual optimizer, Ranger (and Paladin) spells are near-garbage, if you don't allow Spell Compendium (and even then, they're not so hot). They have very few uses, don't do much for the time they're active (which is generally pretty short, given that CL is 1/2 level), and are too few in number to be a real benefit. Generally, trading them for just about anything is better than they are.[/sblock]


----------



## Dej Koosh

If I take the scout strait up, I can get point blank shot and longbow proficiencies at lvl 1, take track at 3, and then start on things like rapid shot after at 4.  Just a thought to make things easier.


----------



## HolyMan

Dej Koosh said:


> If I take the scout strait up, I can get point blank shot and longbow proficiencies at lvl 1, take track at 3, and then start on things like rapid shot after at 4. Just a thought to make things easier.




Sounds like you already have the character build remember a charcter starts with nothing and then gains in power like what you have in the quote. If you want it to be "quicker" then you could take scout as base and lose some of its feats/other abilities - the swap chart is done lvl by lvl so you only need to know what you want your character to be in the end not at 1st lvl

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> *Posting the list of equipment here so you can quote this and mark what you want then the next person can quote you and so on...*



Equipment from Martomum:
Backpacks 2
Bedrolls 3 2
blanket,winter 1
crowbar 1
hammer 1
lantern, hooded 1
mirror,small steel 2
oil,(1 pint flask) 3
pitons 4
belt pouches 2 1
rations,trail 10 days
rope,hemppen (50') 2
sacks 3
spade 1
tents 2
torches 5
waterskins 3
whetstone 2
antitoxin 2
holy water 2
daggers 2
short swords 2
mace,light 1
crossbow, light 1
bolts 20 10
handaxe 1
Shield (Light/Metal)


ghostcat said:


> Trinham bags the crossbow plus 10 bolts and one torch. He will also donate a Shield (light/metal).






Theroc said:


> I suppose we update the RG with new gear?






Frozen Messiah said:


> I plan on taking the 2 daggers, can never be to well armed




Ha. ENWorld does not include quotes in quotes, so we are loosing what people have already taken. Here's the up-to-date list.  I have removed the QUOTE marks round the list so the next candidate can use it by quoting this post.


----------



## Theroc

ghostcat said:


> Equipment from Martomum:
> Backpacks 2
> Bedrolls 3 2
> blanket,winter 1
> crowbar 1
> hammer 1
> lantern, hooded 1
> mirror,small steel 2
> oil,(1 pint flask) 3
> pitons 4
> belt pouches 2 1
> rations,trail 10 days
> rope,hemppen (50') 2
> sacks 3
> spade 1
> tents 2
> torches 5
> waterskins 3
> whetstone 2
> antitoxin 2
> holy water 2
> daggers 2
> short swords 2
> mace,light 1
> crossbow, light 1
> bolts 20 10
> handaxe 1
> Shield (Light/Metal)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha. ENWorld does not include quotes in quotes, so we are loosing what people have already taken. Here's the up-to-date list.  I have removed the QUOTE marks round the list so the next candidate can use it by quoting this post.




Should only be one tent, Aidan took one.  Same with rope.


----------



## HolyMan

Backpacks 2
Bedrolls 3 2
blanket,winter 1
crowbar 1
hammer 1
lantern, hooded 1
mirror,small steel 2
oil,(1 pint flask) 3
pitons 4
belt pouches 2 1
rations,trail 10 days
rope,hemppen (50') 2 1
sacks 3
spade 1
tents 2 1
torches 5
waterskins 3
whetstone 2
antitoxin 2
holy water 2
daggers 2
short swords 2
mace,light 1
crossbow, light 1
bolts 20 10
handaxe 1
Shield (Light/Metal)

Updated glad i didn't leave us to select it in the IC would have been a mess LOL


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Backpacks 2
> Bedrolls 3 2
> blanket,winter 1
> crowbar 1
> hammer 1
> lantern, hooded 1
> mirror,small steel 2
> oil,(1 pint flask) 3
> pitons 4
> belt pouches 2 1
> rations,trail 10 days
> rope,hemppen (50') 2 1
> sacks 3
> spade 1
> tents 2 1
> torches 5
> waterskins 3
> whetstone 2
> antitoxin 2
> holy water 2
> daggers 2
> short swords 2
> mace,light 1
> crossbow, light 1
> bolts 20 10
> handaxe 1
> Shield (Light/Metal)
> 
> Updated glad i didn't leave us to select it in the IC would have been a mess LOL




lol, I missed it earlier, but in my post I took the handaxe too, which got lost in translation.


----------



## HolyMan

Hmm I fixed that in my above post next time i 'll figure a better way to divide up the "loot" but this will do for now

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Ok added the skill synergies for Lora - the tumble gives her synergies to Jump and Balance, so those on top with her free Acrobatic feat make for some nice bonuses.

I tired to RP in the skill increases, as the knowledges give her a bonus to gather information and diplomacy, and she is no longer in the negatives for those two skills 

She has not taken anything yet, but she would like to get 1 antitoxin, 1 Holy Water, 1 Mirror and a Tent (she really needs that). Also i will check over the duskblade today or tomorrow.


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Ok added the skill synergies for Lora - the tumble gives her synergies to Jump and Balance, so those on top with her free Acrobatic feat make for some nice bonuses.
> 
> I tired to RP in the skill increases, as the knowledges give her a bonus to gather information and diplomacy, and she is no longer in the negatives for those two skills
> 
> She has not taken anything yet, but she would like to get 1 antitoxin, 1 Holy Water, 1 Mirror and a Tent (she really needs that). Also i will check over the duskblade today or tomorrow.




lol, if Lora had missed out on a tent, Aidan likely would have given her his.  He's that kind of guy.


----------



## HolyMan

Backpacks 2
Bedrolls 3 2
blanket,winter 1
crowbar 1
hammer 1
lantern, hooded 1
mirror,small steel 2 1
oil,(1 pint flask) 3
pitons 4
belt pouches 2 1
rations,trail 10 days
rope,hemppen (50') 2 1
sacks 3
spade 1
tents 2 
torches 5
waterskins 3
whetstone 2
antitoxin 2 1
holy water 2 1
daggers 2
short swords 2
mace,light 1
crossbow, light 1
bolts 20 10
handaxe 1
Shield (Light/Metal)

Updated


----------



## Myth and Legend

> lol, if Lora had missed out on a tent, Aidan likely would have given her his.  He's that kind of guy.



 yes.. he will be the first one Lora will befriend methinks. That is, after she stops PMS-ing and is back to her normal bad mood


----------



## ghostcat

HM. Can we work out some sort of weight loss rules for Trinham. He started out grossly overweight but has been getting a lot of exercise of late.


----------



## HolyMan

I think by the time he reaches lvl 4 he should be trimmed down and you could give him a point in str, dex, or con to say he "got fit" but if you travel to Harkon and there is no attack for weeks and you just lounge around well all that marching may go out the window lol

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I think by the time he reaches lvl 4 he should be trimmed down and you could give him a point in str, dex, or con to say he "got fit" but if you travel to Harkon and there is no attack for weeks and you just lounge around well all that marching may go out the window lol
> 
> HM




O.O Does that mean if Aidan finds a library-type thing and starts studying, he can 'get smart'?  And just to be clear, I'm just wondering as I had planned on Aidan studying once he started showing strange traits anyway.


----------



## Dragonwriter

ghostcat said:


> HM. Can we work out some sort of weight loss rules for Trinham. He started out grossly overweight but has been getting a lot of exercise of late.






HolyMan said:


> I think by the time he reaches lvl 4 he should be trimmed down and you could give him a point in str, dex, or con to say he "got fit" but if you travel to Harkon and there is no attack for weeks and you just lounge around well all that marching may go out the window lol
> 
> HM






Theroc said:


> O.O Does that mean if Aidan finds a library-type thing and starts studying, he can 'get smart'?  And just to be clear, I'm just wondering as I had planned on Aidan studying once he started showing strange traits anyway.




Just to add my voice in here, that may be opening up a whole nasty can o' worms, balance-wise... Would it be possible, just flavor-wise, for you to just say Trinham loses some weight, rather than trying to devise rules for it? 

(And giving people ability bonuses like that could really throw things off... Without some serious limitation, it would be theoretically possible to have the 50 year old 1st-level Fighter with 30-some STR, if all he did was train and exercise. Not something that's a good idea to deal with... Anyway, just my take on it.)


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> Just to add my voice in here, that may be opening up a whole nasty can o' worms, balance-wise... Would it be possible, just flavor-wise, for you to just say Trinham loses some weight, rather than trying to devise rules for it?
> 
> (And giving people ability bonuses like that could really throw things off... Without some serious limitation, it would be theoretically possible to have the 50 year old 1st-level Fighter with 30-some STR, if all he did was train and exercise. Not something that's a good idea to deal with... Anyway, just my take on it.)




I was assuming that it'd be if anything a one time bonus, DW... otherwise, I'd agree with you.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Theroc said:


> I was assuming that it'd be if anything a one time bonus, DW... otherwise, I'd agree with you.




Hence me saying that if such a thing were to happen, it would need serious limitations.


----------



## Myth and Legend

I think HM meant for you to use your regular stat bonus at lvl 4 as a RPing justification for getting in better shape.


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> I think HM meant for you to use your regular stat bonus at lvl 4 as a RPing justification for getting in better shape.




Doh!  ~Missed the 'OR' and thought it was one to each~  Silly me.


----------



## ghostcat

I was thinking more of losing 2 or 3 Ibs a week and slowly finding his clothes don't fit him any more. I certainly wasn't looking for any tangible benefits.

IF HM has no objections I think losing 1d4 Ibs for a full week of marching / fighting and 1d3 weight gain for a week sitting around doing nothing.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Weight doesn't work like that IRL. Muscles weigh more than fat, and it's easier to stay the same weight (or slightly lower than your usual, unless you are a tub of lard) but get in better shape and _look_ more fit. Also, talk in months, not weeks. Losing anything more than 1-2 KG in a week is bad for your health.


----------



## ghostcat

Trinham is a tub of lard. His BMI is over 31 so he is Obese.  I deliberately started him that way so he would lose weight with all the marching. In the process converting a fat, lazy country boy to a hero.

BTW 1d4 Ibs is 0.5 to 2 Kgs.


----------



## HolyMan

Your right Dw i did open a can of worms 

And ML is right it would be RPing his new stat gain for a 4th lvl character

You may do anything you wish with your characetrs they are yours somethings will get RP in post some will have to be done like so: 

"In the four weeks Aidan spent at Harkon Manor he did not sit idley by, encountering a large library he spent his time reading histories, journals, and even studing a few books of arcane lore." 

You could then say when you level up as a caster you could justifie some of the skills you take but I won't make you beholden to that remeber you don't need to work on everything for the next level now you could be preping for two or even three levels ahead. Aidan could read now and two levels later "remember" what it was on.

And a note on weight ghostcat you are using this mainly as flavor as there are no D&D overweight rules that I know of.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> And a note on weight ghostcat you are using this mainly as flavor as there are no D&D overweight rules that I know of.
> 
> HM



Exactly. When I created Trinham, I felt that a lazy boy who enjoyed his food would probably have a "beer belly". I also, thought that all the exercise he gets from marching would quickly reduce his weight. So we get Lazy fat country boy to hero in 20 easy levels.


----------



## Theroc

Hey, Holyman, got a couple questions about the ring fighting, since Aidan would already know of them.

1. What does the 'ring' typically look like?  A series of 'poles' with a rope connecting them to keep people from aimlessly wandering in, and a dirt clearing?  How large is it?

2. What are the rules of the ring fighting?  For example, would it be 'illegal' to draw a weapon in a ring match?

3.  Anything else you find important about the ring that I should know?

4. Not really a question, but I hope you don't mind me playing up Aidan's agility/acrobatical type abilities.

An additional question for me to ponder in the future.  You've mentioned you like the Pathfinder feats.  Would some of the Monk-oriented style feats be an acceptable source for Aidan's feats?


----------



## HolyMan

@ Theroc soon as I know the rules you will too LOL lets try to do this a little together but I have a great way of telling so bear with me 

@ everyone in the camp (FM, DW, and ghostcat) you guys got quiet was it something I said???

@everyone xp in a little over two days so get your posts in for a little more XP 

Ok I think I'm caught up here heading to IC

HM


----------



## Theroc

Ya missed the last part of my previous post.  In the Mystery of the Drow thread you said you'd approve of Pathfinder feats.  Would you approve of them here, if I ran the individual ones past you as I wanted to take them?  (I am currently thinking on the monk-based unarmed strike styles to play up Aidan's skills.)  I'm not set on any of them, but figured I'd ask as some of them are pretty nice things to learn for an unarmed combatant.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Ya missed the last part of my previous post. In the Mystery of the Drow thread you said you'd approve of Pathfinder feats. Would you approve of them here, if I ran the individual ones past you as I wanted to take them? (I am currently thinking on the monk-based unarmed strike styles to play up Aidan's skills.) I'm not set on any of them, but figured I'd ask as some of them are pretty nice things to learn for an unarmed combatant.




I did respond it didn't go through (hate that) because i thought the question was answered but here goes today seems a good day.

ML has a non-PHB feat so I will allow feats after I have a look over them and you have the concept in mind not just a this is so powerful I need it 

BTW did you meet your oppenent in the IC???

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I did respond it didn't go through (hate that) because i thought the question was answered but here goes today seems a good day.
> 
> ML has a non-PHB feat so I will allow feats after I have a look over them and you have the concept in mind not just a this is so powerful I need it




I am an powergamer, but I'm a powergamer with a concept.  If something looks cool and seems like it would be advantageous, I'll look into it.  If it looks like it'd be cool but overally not worth anything to my character's build, I'll pass.

That said, I think these feats are nothing overpowering, though they do allow Aidan some ability to use his fists to apply debuffs besides Stunning fist as he gets higher in level.




			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> BTW did you meet your oppenent in the IC???
> 
> HM




Yes... yes I did.  David vs. Goliath.  Do you need me to roll initiative and post any actions, or just post?  ~was mid IC post as we speak~


----------



## HolyMan

post will keep rolling to minimum I know you don't have IC account we will figure out things.

Still need to get Fallon and Lora there so alittle DBZ stare down is in order.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> post will keep rolling to minimum I know you don't have IC account we will figure out things.
> 
> Still need to get Fallon and Lora there so alittle DBZ stare down is in order.





I can do rolls on Invisiblecastle just fine.  I simply do not have a "Campaign" category.

I can roll and link with it.  (See my more recent posts in Myth's game.  Alevyth Crit and pwned some dude who got aggressive with him while Ale was blind.)

But a staredown is fine.  Gives me a chance to roleplay Aidan's confidence in the face of what should be 'scary'.


----------



## HolyMan

Just read your IC post and it was great exactly what I meant by telling a little about your character as we go. And don't forget that people change over time I hope it is the way ML is leaning. Speaking of which I think I will wait for a post from ML and then continue I want things to be a litttle insync can you hold your adrenaline till then lol and how about an Initive roll edited in with a stat block (hp ac stunning fists and other specials also grapple will be big so escape artist or any othe rskills you think I will need) 

thanks in advance

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Just read your IC post and it was great exactly what I meant by telling a little about your character as we go. And don't forget that people change over time I hope it is the way ML is leaning. Speaking of which I think I will wait for a post from ML and then continue I want things to be a litttle insync can you hold your adrenaline till then lol and how about an Initive roll edited in with a stat block (hp ac stunning fists and other specials also grapple will be big so escape artist or any othe rskills you think I will need)
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> HM




Alright, I'll try to work up a stat block.  And yes, I can wait, though this part was something I've been waiting for.  (The DMG would likely classify me as a Slayer and something else, since I enjoy the other aspects too, but I like whooping up on things, lol)


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> @ everyone in the camp (FM, DW, and ghostcat) you guys got quiet was it something I said???
> 
> HM





Just looking for a reason, Claude is an old man and he needs his bed rest he can't be watching out for all the youngins all the time


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Oct 1st- Oct 15th*



		Code:
	

Dragonwriter                           370
ghostcat                               360
Frozen Messiah                         365
Myth and Legend                        470
Theroc                                 500
Erwinfoxjj                             210

 
Ok great RPing these last two weeks keep this up and be leveling up again soon LOL 

HM


----------



## Theroc

Woohoo.  Looks like that whole "Bruce Lee" warmup bit did some good!  Aidan learned how NOT to get himself psyched up in prep!


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Woohoo. Looks like that whole "Bruce Lee" warmup bit did some good! Aidan learned how NOT to get himself psyched up in prep!




yep and looks like you are 1/2 way to lvl 3 also not bad for Role-Playing and not Roll-Playing. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> yep and looks like you are 1/2 way to lvl 3 also not bad for Role-Playing and not Roll-Playing.
> 
> HM




And here people always get the impression I'm a 'powergamer'.

It usually depends how well I'm able to get into the mindset of a character and whether they have people to play off of well... and whether or not I'm nervous about doing it wrong.  (Because I have seen people feel that X or Y is the WRONG way to play Y or Z)


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM the last XP amount i have on my sheet is 1,120, when you add 470 that's 1,590 but at the top of the RG you have me put down as 1,660. Did i miss anything?


----------



## HolyMan

Holyman is very sick well will die soon someone cast res for me.

(Priest help theyself)

I have you now at 1,635 Xp can be found on the following pages.

19
23
26
29
32
35

PlZ double no triple check me 

HM


----------



## ghostcat

I make it Trinham has 1,490 XPs. If this HM agrees, I'll update his CS.


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> I make it Trinham has 1,490 XPs. If this HM agrees, I'll update his CS.




Actually going back through and adding again comes to 1,500 what is in the RG let me check.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok Jacob I posted maybe you missed it  here  and what is up with Halls of Darkness??? Talk about me (So yes, I got the message from Beverly LOL)

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Theroc am a little confused on your numbers Aidan has Improved Trip so he gets a +4 to Strength checks to trip an opponent. Here are your numbers

Roll Lookup

So I take it he rolled a 21 for the attempt going now to roll my trip see you in the IC


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Hey Theroc am a little confused on your numbers Aidan has Improved Trip so he gets a +4 to Strength checks to trip an opponent. Here are your numbers
> 
> Roll Lookup
> 
> So I take it he rolled a 21 for the attempt going now to roll my trip see you in the IC



Oh right!  I forgot the +4 from improved trip.
So, yeah, it'd be 21.  My mistake.

Edit: Hm... new question: Did this guy move out of reach of Aidan?  because if he did, unless he tumbled, he provoked an AoO?  Just checking.


----------



## Theroc

I'm confused Holyman, how is my action on hold AFTER I attacked?  Wouldn't my attack resolve and THEN he attempts the grapple?


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I'm confused Holyman, how is my action on hold AFTER I attacked? Wouldn't my attack resolve and THEN he attempts the grapple?




No he readied an action like saying he waited to see what you would do and saying actions are on hold is alittle wrong they didn't get to happen now for round 2 you will need to escape

when you ready an action you go right before the actions that trigger it

HM


----------



## Theroc

Does this guy have Improved Grapple, or do I get the Attack of Opportunity to attempt to stop the grapple?


----------



## HolyMan

he has improved grapple i would have rolled your attempt in so as to save time as i did with your opposed roll

HM


----------



## Theroc

Oh, so the entire grapple is already decided?  So, Aidan is grappled and injured now?


----------



## HolyMan

Yes didn't I post that as Rathmn's turn he started the grapple and established a hold(doing 6 pts dmg)

It is now Aidan's turn 2 still he just can't do what you wanted him to this round

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Yes didn't I post that as Rathmn's turn he started the grapple and established a hold(doing 6 pts dmg)
> 
> It is now Aidan's turn 2 still he just can't do what you wanted him to this round
> 
> HM




lol, man, ready-actions from an NPC seems complicated, since I went through all that rolling to find out I wasted it.  Ohwell.  Time for Aidan to make use of his thick famer's skull.


----------



## Theroc

I'm confused.  I didn't think you could use a move action if you used a 5' step.  Or is it just when you use your move action to MOVE that you can't?

Will fix my IC post if the former is correct.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I'm confused. I didn't think you could use a move action if you used a 5' step. Or is it just when you use your move action to MOVE that you can't?
> 
> Will fix my IC post if the former is correct.




the former is correct:

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. (PHB pg144)

move actions like drawing a weapon or standing up are allowed

HM


----------



## Theroc

Alrighty.


----------



## HolyMan

Just let me know when the IC is update thanks

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Just let me know when the IC is update thanks
> 
> HM




I posted in the IC hours ago, the update would only have been necessary if I COULDN'T roll away and stand up.


----------



## HolyMan

I saw that I'm thinking stare down till ML and FM post then... well i can't tell you what Rathman is going to do lol

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I saw that I'm thinking stare down till ML and FM post then... well i can't tell you what Rathman is going to do lol
> 
> HM




lol, well you COULD... it'd be Aidan's monk-ishness showing through, the prescient talents of the martial artist reading the moves of his opponent!


----------



## HolyMan

But that's what Rathman is doing LOL he is a 2nd lvl monk 

HM


----------



## Theroc

Anyone have any advice on this fight?  Because from what I am seeing, there's isn't a bloody thing I can do to even this up, aside from praying for good rolls, lol (and usually my prayers to the RNG gods fall on deaf ears).


----------



## Dragonwriter

I've been following the fight, and I can really only say you're evenly matched. If you can manage some trips, you might be able to take Rathman down, but I think he was stronger than you... And your luck seems to be a lot like mine (bad).


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Theroc said:


> Anyone have any advice on this fight? Because from what I am seeing, there's isn't a bloody thing I can do to even this up, aside from praying for good rolls, lol (and usually my prayers to the RNG gods fall on deaf ears).




I think I figured out a strategy, Claude will be getting the idea soon in IC and will give you a little bit of coaching.

There, Theroc the spoiler is a simplified version of the strategy, hope it helps.


----------



## HolyMan

O.k. on XP after readding everything for everybody (and all numbers coming up wrong) I remembered some people got bonus xp and evryone got +5 xp for posting a character so going through nd finding when and how much bonus xp i gave out I have finally finished and the RG should have all current points listed 

sorry for the delay in this although I have been home for almost 5 days 3 of those I was dying LOL

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@Theroc IC is down  so will have to trust me and my dice they can't do any worse for you was waiting on ML post but want to get others like DW back in the game so we are going to march on so as to start 

Spider's Path (add diabolical laugh here...)

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Good to know! I am still around... It's just that Jareth didn't have much to react to, and he doesn't have much to bother seeking out.

Also, good to see you're doing better, HM.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks I am feeling alot better also if you like a "dream" of Jareth's wouldn't go amiss in the IC a little insight into your character if you will. Hope to start Spider's Path this weekend because DCC#8 is starting in two days.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> @Theroc IC is down  so will have to trust me and my dice they can't do any worse for you was waiting on ML post but want to get others like DW back in the game so we are going to march on so as to start
> 
> HM




Yeah, I mean, I couldn't roll much WORSE.  ~knocks on wood~


----------



## HolyMan

I rolled worse for you and the NPC lol

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I rolled worse for you and the NPC lol
> 
> HM




Wow.  HM, as a question, the Stunning blow is in addition to the damage done by the strike (Improved Trip lets me hit Rathman after tripping him(or try to anyway), the Stunning blow has to be attached to THAT attack, as the trip isn't a direct attack.)  so, how much damage did Aidan do with the followup attack?

Edit: or is that secret DM stuff?

Edit #2: And so I don't just sound like a munchkin, I'll let you know that I'm very, very pleased with the aesthetic you produced there.  It produced a rather vivid scene in my mind of this round, and made me feel a little better for poor Aidan who seems to get hurt everytime he wanders around the camp...


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry for the abrupted[sp?] ending to your fight Theroc but thought it the best way to end it for now. Could have gone either way  

Thanks for ther above post I do try and paint as good a picture as i can and don't worry I think Aidan may get some grudging respect as he walks around camp from now on.

HM

EDIT: Almost forgot in MotM it's a module so i didn't make up Aedan's name LOL


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Sorry for the abrupted[sp?] ending to your fight Theroc but thought it the best way to end it for now. Could have gone either way
> 
> Thanks for ther above post I do try and paint as good a picture as i can and don't worry I think Aidan may get some grudging respect as he walks around camp from now on.
> 
> HM
> 
> EDIT: Almost forgot in MotM it's a module so i didn't make up Aedan's name LOL




I know, but the similarity was too close for me to pass it up.  As for the abrupt ending, I don't mind too much, though now that's gonna bug Aidan, as now just as he had the upper hand the fight ended, so people can downplay it or pretend they didn't see it, robbing him of the two things he valued from it.  Recognition(and the winnings from the bets).  After all, he joined up here to earn coin to pay for curing his father's illness.

So, needless to say he'll be less than pleased at the events.


----------



## HolyMan

Oh your coins are somewhere the halfling is just hiding for now lol

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Oh your coins are somewhere the halfling is just hiding for now lol
> 
> HM




 He managed to collect the winnings before the match was over!?  That's one slick little dude.  Remind me not to get on his bad side, or I might have my throat slit in my sleep while I'm still awake!


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM you are a lenient DM  I'd have let the PC get beaten to a pulp. Does that make me an evil DM?? Hmmm..


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> HM you are a lenient DM  I'd have let the PC get beaten to a pulp. Does that make me an evil DM?? Hmmm..




If you mean during the grapple, I was rather surprised HM DIDN'T do that, seeing how I got one hit KO'ed by Aidan's first adversary.  Though, I'll admit to being a sore loser, and getting repeated mollywhopped everytime I get into a fight, for a character created to show fancy prowess and do cool-looking stunts would be a bit discouraging.

If you meant interrupting the fight with the scatter-bit, well... at that point it could have gone either way.  Since I stunned and hit him decently hard during his stunned round, he'd either provoke an AoO standing up in front of me(potentially a bad idea) and attempt another grapple, or move away and stand up, which would let me get ready for him again, making it a rather 'even' match at that point.


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> HM you are a lenient DM  I'd have let the PC get beaten to a pulp. Does that make me an evil DM?? Hmmm..





Makes for a better story when Aidan and Rathman meet again. And I hope you aren't evil ML I like Kye keeping his skin whole lol 

@Theroc you know that betting works differently for circle fights you don't bet on who is going to win you bet on the entertainment factor. You give the "bet man" money for being entertained, is why all the flipping and "dancing". Remember we wanted this to be gladitoral like.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> @Theroc you know that betting works differently for circle fights you don't bet on who is going to win you bet on the entertainment factor. You give the "bet man" money for being entertained, is why all the flipping and "dancing". Remember we wanted this to be gladitoral like.




Well, lol, then it's not really betting.  It's more along the lines of WCW or RAW or whatever, where people pay to watch the fight, not bet on who wins.  I don't mind that demographic, though that makes my biography somewhat wrong, as winning or losing is irrelevant if you're fighting to entertain.  If someone loved seeing you get the snot kicked out of you, they'll pay up and you'll get paid... so success in the ring would no longer be relevant to the cashflow, which makes it strange that Aidan would have been so low on cash, unless the circles generally only bring in a few gold total in bets.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> Well, lol, then it's not really betting. It's more along the lines of WCW or RAW or whatever, where people pay to watch the fight, not bet on who wins. I don't mind that demographic, though that makes my biography somewhat wrong, as winning or losing is irrelevant if you're fighting to entertain. If someone loved seeing you get the snot kicked out of you, they'll pay up and you'll get paid... so success in the ring would no longer be relevant to the cashflow, which makes it strange that Aidan would have been so low on cash, unless the circles generally only bring in a few gold total in bets.





Ahh I thought of this and it is two fold, one people took advantage of Aidan not knowing the rules at first and two when you did "learn" a bet man is hard to come by at least one you casn trust not to run off with the winnings. 

edit: and you make money based on your perform skill (which you didn't take member i said perform:mock combat lol)

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Ahh I thought of this and it is two fold, one people took advantage of Aidan not knowing the rules at first and two when you did "learn" a bet man is hard to come by at least one you casn trust not to run off with the winnings.
> 
> edit: and you make money based on your perform skill (which you didn't take member i said perform:mock combat lol)
> 
> HM




I actually didn't remember you saying I needed the skill Perform: Mock Combat to earn money, but something to remember for level three I suppose.  Get some ranks in that and escape artist... 

And the reasoning you came up with is pretty good, hadn't thought of that myself.


----------



## HolyMan

Your right i didn't say you needed it to earn money i said it was a "useful skill in circle fighting"  hint hint,, I had this "betting system" thought of way back just didn't know who to collect the winnings till you stepped on Fickleberry LOL

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Your right i didn't say you needed it to earn money i said it was a "useful skill in circle fighting"  hint hint,, I had this "betting system" thought of way back just didn't know who to collect the winnings till you stepped on Fickleberry LOL
> 
> HM




lol, I figured being good at fighting counted a bit...   But yeah, I'll likely invest a bit in "Circle-fighting" or something.  Mock Combat sounds like the fight isn't real... when... it is.  It's just supposed to be a bit flashier than typical fighting.


----------



## HolyMan

My thought was doing both mock and real fighting adding the flashiness{is that a word?} to the circle you know unnessecary jumps ,flips and the like tumble and jump skills are useful but we will iron everything out for next time 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> My thought was doing both mock and real fighting adding the flashiness{is that a word?} to the circle you know unnessecary jumps ,flips and the like tumble and jump skills are useful but we will iron everything out for next time
> 
> HM




Well, it'd make more sense to flesh the thing out a bit before the next circle-match, rather than once it starts.

The problem with mixing the two is... what if I go to do a flashy manuever and the other guy just punches me in the face?  Sometimes those flashy things look nice but leave you open.  Would tumble or "Circle-fighting" mitigate that in some way?  Also, my general assumption was that most would not be doing flips and the like all that often(since not everyone is a monk, and most soldiers were more apt to be a Fighter or something, fighting armed in combat), and that Aidan was particularly flashy.  If everyone else is flashy, I'll definitely need to get some skills setup to emphasize this aspect of his character.  

Skills affecting the fake portions are good, we'd simply need to establish an explanation as to why one who shows off doesn't get wailed on just because the other guy chose not to play along.


----------



## HolyMan

No you wouldn't perform mock combat during the fight perse just a roll to see how much money you collect. Just need to add fluff to your regular combat, like Rathman letting go and flipping over you. 

The fighters will differ but the ones you face I thought should be more like your character you didn't want Rathman to say "Sword and Shield till first blood" for the rules did you? 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> No you wouldn't perform mock combat during the fight perse just a roll to see how much money you collect. Just need to add fluff to your regular combat, like Rathman letting go and flipping over you.
> 
> The fighters will differ but the ones you face I thought should be more like your character you didn't want Rathman to say "Sword and Shield till first blood" for the rules did you?
> 
> HM




Well, I was thinking more of, "No weapon restrictions, until submission or unconsciousness" as a rule if the weapons of the combatants differ.  Now, variation is fine, in fact I would prefer the opponents vary, just an observation.

Anyways, good to see you've thought through a lot of this, as I'd neglected to think over specifics as I have a nasty tendency to forget people don't think the same way I do... and make instant assumptions that take me time to assess, lol.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok in the IC everyone is abed but Claude and Fallon anything to add FM go ahead but tonight I will be taking the IC forward to the morning then linking in Spider's Path

Players for this side quest are:
ghostcat
Dragonwriter
Theroc
Myth and Legend
Frozen Messiah

Is this correct?

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Ok in the IC everyone is abed but Claude and Fallon anything to add FM go ahead but tonight I will be taking the IC forward to the morning then linking in Spider's Path
> 
> Players for this side quest are:
> ghostcat
> Dragonwriter
> Theroc
> Myth and Legend
> Frozen Messiah
> 
> Is this correct?
> 
> HM



Si Amigo


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Ok in the IC everyone is abed but Claude and Fallon anything to add FM go ahead but tonight I will be taking the IC forward to the morning then linking in Spider's Path
> 
> Players for this side quest are:
> ghostcat
> Dragonwriter
> Theroc
> Myth and Legend
> Frozen Messiah
> 
> Is this correct?
> 
> HM




C'est vrai mon ami


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Ok in the IC everyone is abed but Claude and Fallon anything to add FM go ahead but tonight I will be taking the IC forward to the morning then linking in Spider's Path
> 
> Players for this side quest are:
> ghostcat
> Dragonwriter
> Theroc
> Myth and Legend
> Frozen Messiah
> 
> Is this correct?
> 
> HM




Sounds good to me.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Yep  Oh and everyone: i am roleplaying Lora. Don't you start getting offended or something. I'm always roleplaying my chars in the IC threads. (i remember Jemal being offended at one of my chars, and confused player with character )


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Yep  Oh and everyone: i am roleplaying Lora. Don't you start getting offended or something. I'm always roleplaying my chars in the IC threads. (i remember Jemal being offended at one of my chars, and confused player with character )




Isn't that why "Myth always roleplays" is in your siggie?  

I generally assume it's the character doing things, not the player, unless it's something like, "Claude wakes up one morning, and decides to stab Rathman in the gut as the pass one another on the way to chow"  As it seems rather out of character for him to do such a thing.  At such a time, I might wonder if something is up OOC.

Now, that doesn't mean a character's actions might fluster/frustrate me... but don't confuse that with me getting mad at anyone OOC either.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Myth and Legend said:


> Yep  Oh and everyone: i am roleplaying Lora. Don't you start getting offended or something. I'm always roleplaying my chars in the IC threads. (i remember Jemal being offended at one of my chars, and confused player with character )




Personally, I find the way you RP her fantastic. (It's hard to offend me, as I am a die-hard Monty Python and Mel Brooks fan.)

And, by the way, the same is true for me with Jareth. (I'm still interested in just how Lora and Jareth will clash, as they're both rather sharp-tongued.)

Of course, that's a major reason why I try to make each character I play quite different from each other, personality-wise...


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Theroc said:


> I generally assume it's the character doing things, not the player, unless it's something like, "Claude wakes up one morning, and decides to stab Rathman in the gut as the pass one another on the way to chow" As it seems rather out of character for him to do such a thing.




yeah, that is totally not something he would do 

and about Claude vs. Lora, I'm don't have any problems with what your doing I just feel bad for Claude to be taking all the flak all the time


----------



## Myth and Legend

Well Lora isn't really a bitch, that attitude of hers is a defensive mechanism really. She can't open up to everyone she meets at the same time. She hasn't had the chance to see much of Calude, and since she revels in her intellect she sees his advice as a challenge she must take head on. She is an Aries, if you want to research the zodiac a bit 

Lora's appearance and parts of her character (not the bitchy parts though) are based on someone i know in real life.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Myth and Legend said:


> Well Lora isn't really a bitch, that attitude of hers is a defensive mechanism really. She can't open up to everyone she meets at the same time. She hasn't had the chance to see much of Calude, and since she revels in her intellect she sees his advice as a challenge she must take head on. She is an Aries, if you want to research the zodiac a bit
> 
> Lora's appearance and parts of her character (not the bitchy parts though) are based on someone i know in real life.




I expected and I think Claude understands this too (Lora has a low Charisma and Claude has a high sense motive) but not the reason why, he's a patient fellow though so he waits


----------



## Theroc

I don't know what Zodiac sign Aidan would be.  I've modelled his personality somewhat after myself, so perhaps Pisces.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Points Oct 16th-Oct 31st*

Sorry I'm behind these weeks are flying by and there was a big parade in this area last night  but here are xp RG has totals.



		Code:
	

Trinham                  +150
Lora                     +340
Claude                   +150
Jareth                   +90
Aidan                    +330

 
And did everyone go back and double check me on xp I don't remeber.


----------



## HolyMan

*Marching order...*

Martomum
Jareth
Lora
Aidan
Claude (FM you around haven't seen you post in http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/267151-spiders-path.html )
Trinham

Greyhay and the other tracker are scouting out of spot/listen range for characters.


----------



## Dragonwriter

I'll go ahead and add that to Jareth's sheet shortly. And my totals were fine (rather easy when you've only just joined).

The marching order looks good to me as well.


----------



## Theroc

I haven't doublechecked since I have always been very close to Myth as far as XP goes, and didn't see anything jump out at me.


----------



## ghostcat

We're moving on Monday, so my posting are going to be sporadic until my Internet connection catches up with me.

HM. I hope to be able to post enough to keep my end up, so to speak. If I can't don't hold the game up, can you just NPC Trinham. Trinham's tactics in the spider fight is to keep back and use his crossbow (he won't fire into melee) and spells. He will try up to two flares then magic missiles.


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> We're moving on Monday, so my posting are going to be sporadic until my Internet connection catches up with me.
> 
> HM. I hope to be able to post enough to keep my end up, so to speak. If I can't don't hold the game up, can you just NPC Trinham. Trinham's tactics in the spider fight is to keep back and use his crossbow (he won't fire into melee) and spells. He will try up to two flares then magic missiles.




Great thanks for letting me know what's up will NPC you if nesscesary as tonight I will move things along so if you have a chance check in and post. 

To everyone sorry for the slow down RL has been becoming fast tonight will update Spider's Path and give out XP so any last min posts you want to make in Spider's Path get them in before midnight LOL

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Points Nov1st - Nov15th*

Well a slow two weeks here in EnWorld but that is the nature of the beast I'm thinking. So XP are low and will make a promose that I will try and start NPCing actions to keep things moving faster when it comes to combat, as this seems to be one of the slower parts of pbp.



		Code:
	

ghostcat                            120xp
Frozen Messiah                       90xp
Dragonwriter                         25xp
Theroc                               40xp
Myth and Legend                      10xp

 
Will get the action rolling but Invisible Castle is down so breaking out the dice 

HM


----------



## Theroc

~brain 'splodes~

Okay, Now I'm confused on Aidan's XP.  I had him at 1600, but you have him at 1970.  (Since I don't know where the difference comes in, I'll happily go with 1970 though, since I know I was close to M&L but behind.)  So, going by what I had, it'd be 1640... but I think I'm obviously missing something in that assessment, given your 1970... so... yeah.


----------



## HolyMan

*Aidan's xp check:*

Experience givin-

Page 19- 185xp
Page 23- 395xp
Page 26- 220xp
Page 29- 205xp
Page 32- 90xp
Page 35- 500xp
Page 38- 330xp
Page 38- 40xp

And I now have him at a total of 1.965xp if this is what you get please let me know will change RG

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Experience givin-
> 
> Page 19- 185xp
> Page 23- 395xp
> Page 26- 220xp
> Page 29- 205xp
> Page 32- 90xp
> Page 35- 500xp
> Page 38- 330xp
> Page 38- 40xp
> 
> And I now have him at a total of 1.965xp if this is what you get please let me know will change RG
> 
> HM




From those numbers, I got the same thing you did.  I am baffled how I managed to get 1600 though... since by adding them up in the order you just did, I go from 1595 to 1925


----------



## HolyMan

You added an extra 5 points (1,595-1,600) just like I did (1,965-1,970) LOL 

I will defentily keep my caculator handy from now on.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Ruling*

@Theroc: Combat Expertise can only be used when you take a standard attack action or full-attack action in melee Sorry about that buddy 

@everyone else: back to combat!!

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> @Theroc: Combat Expertise can only be used when you take a standard attack action or full-attack action in melee Sorry about that buddy
> 
> HM




Whoops, well, just add one to my attack roll then.  lol.


----------



## Theroc

I missed with attack roll of 22!?  Was there concealment or something?


----------



## HolyMan

Whoa I might have made a mistake let me go back and check. It was 3:00 in the morning but I wanted to get it done.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Whoa I might have made a mistake let me go back and check. It was 3:00 in the morning but I wanted to get it done.
> 
> HM




lol, I'm not upset, just rather flabberghasted.  Sorta like when I rolled a touch attack of 23 or something in another game with a level 5 Gestalt warlock/cleric (And watched my opponent dodge!)


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM i rolled Lora's lvl 2 HP - 1 + 2 for CON, total of 9 HP for her now. It's in the level up post, i edited it.

Right now i want to see if the Sleep spell will be affecting the spider, before i post Lora's action.


----------



## Theroc

Hey, HM, you know Aidan has his sickle in his hand too, right?  Just asking as that wasn't in your summary.  He has a javelin in one hand, and a sickle in the other.  Just asking as that's vaguely important for when the spider gets into melee, which it did.


----------



## Theroc

HM, in Spider's Path, can you tell me which two spiders are sleeping?  The 'upper' two?


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> HM, in Spider's Path, can you tell me which two spiders are sleeping? The 'upper' two?




that is correct SA and SB are asleep.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Lora mounted her Glaive and targeted the closest sleeping arachnid, then methodically and mercilessly drove the blade of the heavy, forward balanced weapon, trough the spider's head. Her teeth were clenched, her eyes - cold, and the girl felt no remorse when taking a life.
> 
> [sblock] 5 foot step towards the closest sleeping spider if it is needed. The Glaive has reach after all. Coup de grace: Glaive 1d10 x 3 = 17. Also, other DMs here made the castings seem "instant", and your hero was on a one round "cool down", but the effect took place before the combat round for the PCs is out. I will know from now on that if i am low on the initiative roll i must be careful how i target the AOE since the targets are moving towards us.
> 
> Also on Sleep: A sleep spell causes a magical slumber to come upon 4 Hit Dice of creatures. Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first.     Among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell’s point of origin are affected first. So i have targeted one spider, it will definitely sleep as i centered the spell on it, no roll required, right? [/sblock]




Can you tell me more about this "instant/cool down when you have a few extra mins ML or send a link to a post it is used in. Just now finding that in pbp AoE need to either be streamlined or have people able to go back and redo what they want their character to do that round. What would have happened had you said I cast my fireball centered on spider SB  ouch!

On point of origin:
Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell effects. The point of origin is always a grid intersection. (PHB-pg175)

Something to remember.

 I put the point of origin in the top right corner of SB's square, so he as the closest and took up two HD. Then there was two HD left and 4 creatures all 5' away so I rolled random. And everyone gets a save even the spider (SB) who is the closest target if that's what your asking about here: "it will definitely sleep as i centered the spell on it, no roll required, right?" 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HM, I just realized, are we still playing with the BAB as a "Dodge bonus" houserule?  Because that's not calculated correctly for Aidan... he'd have an extra 1 AC and Touch AC if that applies.  (BAB 1 at level 2 monk)


----------



## Sphyh

hey im interested in joining... whats the current party comprised of? i dont wanna just stack another fighter or something if there is already like 3

also how far along into are you. would i draw my character up lvl 1 and go from there or are yall already significantly higher?


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> HM, I just realized, are we still playing with the BAB as a "Dodge bonus" houserule? Because that's not calculated correctly for Aidan... he'd have an extra 1 AC and Touch AC if that applies. (BAB 1 at level 2 monk)




We are still using that rule but it was writin' as Dodge bonus to AC + to 1/2 your BAB 

Next lvl you get a +1 dodge bonus to AC  use it wisely lol 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> We are still using that rule but it was writin' as Dodge bonus to AC + to 1/2 your BAB
> 
> Next lvl you get a +1 dodge bonus to AC  use it wisely lol
> 
> HM




Oh, 1/2 my BAB.



			
				Sphyh said:
			
		

> hey im interested in joining... whats the current party comprised of? i dont wanna just stack another fighter or something if there is already like 3
> 
> also how far along into are you. would i draw my character up lvl 1 and go from there or are yall already significantly higher?




Most PC's are level 2 at this point.  Holyman's set this up as a freeform campaign, so the 'current party' can vary.  At the moment, we have a Paladin, a Duskblade, a Monk, a Wizard, a Sorcerer, and... Dunno what else atm... it escapes me.


----------



## HolyMan

Sphyh said:


> hey im interested in joining... whats the current party comprised of? i dont wanna just stack another fighter or something if there is already like 3
> 
> also how far along into are you. would i draw my character up lvl 1 and go from there or are yall already significantly higher?





Martomum NPC Warrior??
Greyhay NPC Wilderness Warrior??
Unnamed Scout NPC any class (could be good way to add in a character is why I put him in for anyone who wished to join in)

Aidan HB-Monk
Lora Wizard
Jareth Duskblade
Trinham Battle Sorcerer
Claude Paladin (range combat)

Character gen rules are in Houserules thread link on page one anything else you like to know just ask here. 

@Theroc: Two misses in Spider's Path, so do you think IC  has it out for you?? Maybe they want you to finally sign up lol 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

HolyMan said:


> Martomum NPC Warrior??
> Greyhay NPC Wilderness Warrior??
> Unnamed Scout NPC any class (could be good way to add in a character is why I put him in for anyone who wished to join in)
> 
> Aidan HB-Monk
> Lora Wizard
> Jareth Duskblade
> Trinham Battle Sorcerer
> Claude Paladin (range combat)
> 
> Character gen rules are in Houserules thread link on page one anything else you like to know just ask here.
> 
> @Theroc: Two misses in Spider's Path, so do you think IC  has it out for you?? Maybe they want you to finally sign up lol
> 
> HM




ok ill start working on drawing up a charcter... i think ill go straight fighter for simplicities sake


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Martomum NPC Warrior??
> Greyhay NPC Wilderness Warrior??
> Unnamed Scout NPC any class (could be good way to add in a character is why I put him in for anyone who wished to join in)
> 
> Aidan HB-Monk
> Lora Wizard
> Jareth Duskblade
> Trinham Battle Sorcerer
> Claude Paladin (range combat)
> 
> Character gen rules are in Houserules thread link on page one anything else you like to know just ask here.
> 
> @Theroc: Two misses in Spider's Path, so do you think IC  has it out for you?? Maybe they want you to finally sign up lol
> 
> HM




No, it's Karma for Aidan's good attack roll, and a good attack/damage roll on Living 4th with my Warden.

2 misses for 2 hits.  At least it's not low attack/high damage.  Those always make me a sad panda.


----------



## HolyMan

Sphyh said:


> ok ill start working on drawing up a charcter... i think ill go straight fighter for simplicities sake




Great Sphyh Welcome aboard and Oh Great Avatar mine is Sturm but hard to see.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Unnamed Scout NPC any class (could be good way to add in a character is why I put him in for anyone who wished to join in)




Oh. And here's me thinking he was a "Red Shirt"


----------



## HolyMan

ghostcat said:


> Oh. And here's me thinking he was a "Red Shirt"




I never did describe him but if i was going to you can bet his tunic would have been red LOL 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

Take Two...

Onesimus
Male Human Fighter 1
Lawful Good
Representing Sphyh

Strength               17(+3)
Dexterity         12(+1)
Constitution     16(+3)
Intelligence     12(+1)
Wisdom                10(+0)
Charisma              10(+0)

Size: Medium
Height: 6' 0"
Weight: 195 lb
Skin: Light
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Dark Brown; Straight; Light Beard

Total Hit Points: 13
Speed: 20 feet [armor] 
Armor Class: 16 = 10 +4 [scale] +1 [buckler] +1 [dexterity] 
Touch AC: 11
Flat-footed: 15

Initiative modifier:+1= +1 [dexterity] 
Fortitude save:+5= 2 [base] +3 [constitution] 
Reflex save:+1= 0 [base] +1 [dexterity] 
Will save:+0= 0 [base] 

Attack (handheld):+4= 1 [base] +3 [strength] 
Attack (unarmed):+4= 1 [base] +3 [strength] 
Attack (missile):+2= 1 [base] +1 [dexterity] 
Grapple check:+4= 1 [base] +3 [strength] 

Light load:      86 lb. or less
Medium load:     87-173 lb.
Heavy load:      174-260 lb.
Lift over head:  260 lb.
Lift off ground: 520 lb.
Push or drag:    1300 lb.

Languages: Common, ______

ATTACKS:
Greatsword [2d6, crit 19-20/x2, 8 lb., two-handed, slashing]
+1 (BAB) + 3 (STR) + 1 (Weapon Focus) – 1 (buckler) = +4 
2d6 + 4 (STR x 1.5)

Spear [1d8, crit x3, 6lb., two-handed, piercing]
+1 (BAB) + 3 (STR) - 1 (buckler) = +3 (melee)/ 1d8 + 4 (STR x 1.5)
+1 (BAB) + 1 (DEX) = +2 (ranged)/ 1d8 + 3 (STR)

ARMOR:
Scale Mail [medium; +4 AC; max dex +3; check penalty -4; 30 lb.] 
Buckler [+1 AC; check penalty -1; hardness 10; hp 5; 5 lb.] 
Total Modifier: -5

Feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Weapon Focus: Greatsword
Alertness (+2/+2 Listen/Spot)


Skills – class skills in red
(Total Modifier = Ability + Ranks + Misc) 
Appraise..............                          - Int         1 = 1
Balance...............                             - Dex*  -4 = 1+0-5
Bluff.................                             - Cha         0 = 0
Climb................. - Str*        2 = 3+4-5
Concentration.........                 - Con         3 = 3
Craft_1............... - Int        1 = 1
Diplomacy.............                     - Cha         0 = 0
Disguise..............                           - Cha        0 = 0
Escape Artist.........                 - Dex*    -4 = 1+0-5
Forgery...............                            - Int        1 = 1
Gather Info...........              - Cha        0 = 0
Handle Animal(^)......        - Cha        0 = 0
Heal..................                               - Wis         0 = 0
Hide..................                               - Dex*    -4 = 1+0-5
Intimidate............ - Cha         4 = 0+4
Jump..................                - Str*       2 = 3+4-5 [speed 20]
Listen................                             - Wis         2 = 0+0+2
Move Silently.........                 - Dex*    -4 = 1+0-5
Prof: Blacksmith(^)...     - Wis         4 = 0+4 
Ride..................                               - Dex         1 = 1
Search................                             - Int        1 = 1
Sense Motive..........                  - Wis         0 = 0
Spot..................                               - Wis         2 = 0+2
Survival..............                      - Wis         2 = 0+2
Swim..................                               - Str**  -3 = 3+4-10
Use Rope..............                           - Dex         1 = 1
* = check penalty for wearing armor
(^) – denotes skill trade to class

Equipment:
49 lb - Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above)
2 lb - Backpack
5 lb - Bedroll
0 lb - Flint and steel
2 lb - Hammer
1 lb - Lamp (common)
1 lb - Oil flasks x1
4 lb - Rations (1 day) x4
10 lb - Rope (50', hempen) x1
1 lb - Torches x1
4 lb - Waterskins x1
1 lb - Whetstone
_____
80 lb Total
Gp – 27
Sp – 1
Cp - 7


----------



## HolyMan

Breaking out the red ink been awhile since I diid that 

Onesimus
Male Human Fighter 1
Lawful Good
Representing Sphyh

Strength 17 (+3)
Dexterity 12(+1)
Constitution16(+3)
Intelligence12(+1)
Wisdom10(+0)
Charisma10(+0)

Size:Medium
Height:6' 0"
Weight:195 lb
Skin:Light
Eyes:Blue
Hair: Dark Brown; Straight; Light Beard

Total Hit Points: 13
Speed: 20 feet [armor] 
Armor Class: 16 = 10 +4 [banded] +1 [buckler] +1 [dexterity] Says banded?? but wearing scale
Touch AC: 11
Flat-footed: 15

Initiative modifier:+1= +1 [dexterity] 
Fortitude save:+5= 2 [base] +3 [constitution] 
Reflex save:+1= 0 [base] +1 [dexterity] 
Will save:+0= 0 [base] 

Attack (handheld):+4= 1 [base] +3 [strength] 
Attack (unarmed):+4= 1 [base] +3 [strength] 
Attack (missile):+2= 1 [base] +1 [dexterity] 
Grapple check:+4= 1 [base] +3 [strength] 

Light load:86 lb. or less
Medium load:87-173 lb.
Heavy load:174-260 lb.
Lift over head:260 lb.
Lift off ground:520 lb.
Push or drag:1300 lb.

Languages:Common, Orc (Not much use for the Orc lang. after I see your background will give you a few to chose from)

ATTACKS:
Greatsword [2d6, crit 19-20/x2, 8 lb., two-handed, slashing]
+1 (BAB) + 3 (STR) + 1 (Weapon Focus) – 1 (buckler) = +4 
2d6 + 4 (STR x 1.5)
Since I have the Unnamed Scout listed in the game as having a spear copy/paste this to your sheet (no cost but do have to add to total wieght) 
Spear [1d8, crit x3, 6lb., two-handed, piercing]
+1 (BAB) + 3 (STR) - 1 (buckler) = +3 (melee)/ 1d8 + 4 (STR x 1.5)
+1 (BAB) + 1 (DEX) = +2 (ranged)/ 1d8 + 3 (STR)

ARMOR:
Scale Mail [medium; +4 AC; max dex +3; check penalty -4; 30 lb.] 
Buckler [+1 AC; check penalty -1; hardness 10; hp 5; 5 lb.] 
Add total check penalty here please: -5

Feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Weapon Focus: Greatsword
Alertness (+2/+2 Listen/Spot)

For the record I dislike this form of presenting skills, but to each is own. Could you for me at least color code some 
things to make them stand out, just highlight class skills and ranks really so they are easier to find. Also list the 
change you made to get Profession as a class skill at the end of the character sheet please.

Skills
Appraise - Int 1 = +1
Balance - Dex* -4 = +1 -5
Bluff - Cha 0 = +0
Climb - Str* 2 = +3+4-5
Concentration - Con 3 = +3
Craft_1 - Int1 = +1
Diplomacy - Cha 0 = +0
Disguise - Cha0 = +0
Escape Artist - Dex*-4 = +1 -5
Forgery -Int1 = +1
Gather Information - Cha0 = +0
Heal - Wis 0 = +0
Hide - Dex* -4 = +1 -5
Intimidate - Cha 4 = +0+4
Jump - Str*2 = +3+4-5 [speed 20]
Listen - Wis 2 = +0 +2
Move Silently - Dex* -4 = +1 -5
Profession: Blacksmith - Wis 4 = +0+4 
Ride - Dex 1 = +1
Search - Int 1 = +1
Sense Motive - Wis 0 = +0
Spot - Wis 2 = +0+2
Survival-cc - Wis 2 = +0+4 -should be listed as +2 ranks
Swim - Str** -3 = +3+4-10
Use Rope - Dex 1 = +1

* = check penalty for wearing armor

43 lb - Weapons / Armor / Shield (from above)
2 lb - Backpack
5 lb - Bedroll
0 lb - Flint and steel
2 lb - Hammer
1 lb - Lamp (common)
1 lb - Oil flasks x1
4 lb - Rations (1 day) x4
10 lb - Rope (50', hempen) x1
1 lb - Torches x1
4 lb - Waterskins x1
1 lb - Whetstone
_____
73 lb Total (I get 74lbs total; 80lbs w/the added spear)
Gp – 27
Sp – 1
Cp - 7


----------



## Sphyh

i edited my post above to the specifications.... i hope its better now lol


----------



## HolyMan

Looks like you are ready (he was ok the way he was before btw, thanks for the edit tho)

Copy/Paste him into the RG and give him a detailed background and you could earn some bonus XP

Speaking of which tomorrow is last day for this XP cycle so I will update IC and have you ready to start DEC 1 which is the first day of the next cycle 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

sounds good and will do.... 

what tags should i use when i post him in the rg to make it like a clickable button to expand out?


----------



## HolyMan

use sblock's 

take whatever you want to say and in front of it put [sblock]

and at the end put /sblock also surrounded by [..]


----------



## Sphyh

ok my char is up in the RG please look him over if u feel the need. all feedback is welcome


----------



## HolyMan

Your character looks good to go Sphyh i will be adding him to the Roll Call here in about 40 mins when I post XP And then will give you the go ahead after that to post in Spider's Path where you replace the Unnamed Scout now that we have a name for him

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Nov 16th-Nov 30th*

Ok here is XP for the past two weeks I have done no better speeding things up sorry about that folks. FM I wasn't suggesting NPCing your character the rest of the combat just for round 2 to hurry things along I will need to come up with a better combat medthod I guess. Sphyh you are clear to take over the Unnamed Scouts postion in the battle and if you wish to post in Spider's Path go ahead it is your round 3 btw, great background i will definitely be using it and your LG alignment to full DM advantage ( insert diabloic laugh here  ) You recieved +50 XP 



		Code:
	

Myth and Legend                              140
Theroc                                       110
ghostcat                                      90
Frozen Messiah                                80
Dragonwriter                                  95


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Sphyh just read your post, and am here to answer your questions

1) To get a word other than spoiler you need to make your [sblock] look like this [sblock=insert word here] then that word or words will appear

2) The unnamed scout never really got a chance to talk with the group as he was on rear guard most of the time, and only brought up close when the spider webbed forest was encountered. Now fighting for your lives and the lives of those around you i can see him "breaking out" of his quiet shell.

@ everyone else will wait till tommorrow afternoon for ML and does anyone know a way to speed combat I would like it to get to two posts per person a week if possible 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Hey Sphyh just read your post, and am here to answer your questions
> 
> 1) To get a word other than spoiler you need to make your [sblock] look like this [sblock=insert word here] then that word or words will appear
> 
> 2) The unnamed scout never really got a chance to talk with the group as he was on rear guard most of the time, and only brought up close when the spider webbed forest was encountered. Now fighting for your lives and the lives of those around you i can see him "breaking out" of his quiet shell.
> 
> @ everyone else will wait till tommorrow afternoon for ML and does anyone know a way to speed combat I would like it to get to two posts per person a week if possible
> 
> HM




NPC PC's that do not respond within 48 hours of each update.  That tends to speed things up.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @ everyone else will wait till tommorrow afternoon for ML and does anyone know a way to speed combat I would like it to get to two posts per person a week if possible
> 
> HM






Theroc said:


> NPC PC's that do not respond within 48 hours of each update.  That tends to speed things up.




That's also the only way I can think of... You can try making the request of folks to be on more regularly, but there's no guarantees with that approach. If you NPC them for the round, then that keeps things moving.


----------



## Sphyh

thanks HM - yea i def see him being a bit more vocal

i agree with dragonwriter... as for me i should be able to post at least daily with rare exceptions in which i will make yall aware of.


----------



## HolyMan

48hrs after my update post would work ,like what I did for FM but it seemed in his case he didn't know it was his turn up. So maybe I should work on how I run combat (still new though I have been posting since June this is only the fourth combat, I have ran)

So I will work on letting people know they are up and we will take it from there. (ML your turn  )

HM


----------



## ghostcat

Out of turn posting is a must but I believe we already have that.

Another technique I have seen used is multiple turns in a single post. Not sure I like it but its a thought.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, thanks for putting the creature's HP and AC in the statblock, but I think there's been a little mistake... You put the Ettercap's AC as 27 and HP as 14... I think (as in, pray) this is not the case...


----------



## Theroc

Dragonwriter said:


> HM, thanks for putting the creature's HP and AC in the statblock, but I think there's been a little mistake... You put the Ettercap's AC as 27 and HP as 14... I think (as in, pray) this is not the case...




Same.  We'd all need to crit to hit.


----------



## Sphyh

just wanted to make everyone aware im new to using IC so if yall could give me pointers and stuff to make that go smoother id appreciate it. i did my best : ) to post and add links and stuff. any critiques are welcome


----------



## Dragonwriter

For showing the numbers in your rolls, or describing it, you can just use the square brackets, like with sblocks. The code for the linking is "url=site" in square brackets, a description/number between, then "[/url]" to end it.


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> HM, thanks for putting the creature's HP and AC in the statblock, but I think there's been a little mistake... You put the Ettercap's AC as 27 and HP as 14... I think (as in, pray) this is not the case...




Sorry must have been in a hurry RL has been kicking my but (holidays) So I must have missed it and your welcome like I said i add HP and AC so you can post a hit and if you kill something you can write that in too

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

I got my post was delayed because I had to resign in and I was trying to help out Jareth get out of the webs which he managed to do by himself. Could I repost?


----------



## HolyMan

Sure FM That is a small problem with pbp but easily correctable it looked like to me you and DW were writing at the same time 

So edit the post, and then let me know here so I can go back and reread it.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hi  What'd i miss? Except from one round of combat that is.


----------



## HolyMan

Not much cuze I have been slow to figure out what to do  But I will have something figured out before next combat (I hope)

HM


----------



## Sphyh

even though i am caught in the web i can still attack if the spider approaches?

i figure i would just stayed webbed and continue to ready my attack if that follows the rules that is


----------



## HolyMan

You are right Sphyh, entangled characters may still attack just post your charater standing there ready to hack down the wicked spider. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Heads up all will finish round 5 before tommorrow night just need Theroc and ML to post but will NPC them if nessacary (though I really hope not).

Also a remind that XP are to be posted Tue night I think though not sure that a couple lvl one people are really close to lvl two (GOOD LUCK  )

HM


----------



## HolyMan

So I am alot behind SORRY ALL 

Thought I better get the round over with and it has taken me almost an hour and a half to do that. But it is finished next is XP but I am off to work so will post during my break (I hope so)

Bear with me all till the holidays are over alot going on with work/kids/and the gf's family.

HM


----------



## Sphyh

its all good HM family comes first 

ive got a question. while im entangled i read that i can move at half speed as long as what im entangled by is anchored to anything. is that the situation im in?

"The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity." - d20 srd

if thats the case i wanna take a 5ft step SE towards the ettercap (which is really like 10 feet with the half speed penalty) and then attack. 

does that sound ok?


----------



## HolyMan

Sphyh said:


> An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity." - d20 srd
> 
> does that sound ok?




That is correct you may move and attack (actual what I exspected you to do) and are at -2 AC due to DEX penalty.

I don't think the ettercap is a good tactian that's one of the reasons I had him charge in.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Dec 1st - Dec 15th*

Ok got this done (I am on break ) the experienceis a little high for the amount pf postings but I believe it to be my fought you all didn't get much chance to post. Everytime I was there with a recap you guys posted within a day or two, so if I could have kept it flowing there would have been more posts. Ok I need to get back to work see you all in the IC.



		Code:
	

Sphyh                         90
ghostcat                     120
DragonWriter                  75
Theroc                       110
Frozen Messiah                70


----------



## HolyMan

@Sphyh this is in answer to the language question you aske dplease choice on from tthe following:

Halfling - halflings own farms throughout Pesh
Nod-Ren - (native language of men of Norden, they are many great smiths from that area)
Gnome - most traveling merchants who aren't human are gnomish so dealings with them are common
High Common - not spoken by the common people but your form master may have spoke it so you could have picked it up (is the difference between American English abd European English, not much but still there)

Hm


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience  Dec 16th - Dec 21st*

Posting this a little early but I have big plans tonight (Happy New Year everyone). In Spider's Path if anyone posts today i will change there XP 



		Code:
	

ghostcat                                       120
Theroc                                          80
Dragonwriter                                   115
Sphyh                                           80
Frozen Messiah                                 100

 
*Congrats to Frozen Messiah whoses character is now Level 2*


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Thanks for the late Christmas gift HolyMan


----------



## HolyMan

NP FM,

you know to make a level up post in the RG with all your LvL 2 add-ons right?

Could you also post a link to that paladin variant in your character sheet for me thanks.

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

No problem holyman, I plan on geeting that done A.S.A.P


----------



## Myth and Legend

Umm sorry i missed the combat! Tham i'd have rolled a Knowledge check for the Ettercap and everything :/ Sorry for making you NPC Lora HM!

I shouldn's have taken advantage of your positive disposition towards her  So now what? Should i just post in the Spider's Path? I'll have to read everything i missed, can i get a rough explanation on who is where at the moment?


----------



## Dragonwriter

Everyone but Aidan and Martomum are at a little makeshift camp, about an hour past the spider webs. Trinham's unconscious due to some serious poisoning (though I think it was DEX poison) and several others are injured.
And the Unnamed Scout that started with us now has a name and player.

That's about it...


----------



## HolyMan

Nice wrap up thanks DW,

NP ML, I used Lora in a kind of support roll you know polearms in the back lol so she was aiding another mostly, I didn't cast any spells so your spell list should be the same from the last time you casted a spell.

Right about the poison it reduced Trinham's Dex to zero so he became immoblized, he can still talk and see and hear but he cannot move his arms and legs.

You all may role-play in the camp as you wait for Martomum and Aidan to return.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok FM couple questions and fiqured the best way to ask was to copy/paste your sheet here and red ink it to highlight what I have questions on.



		Code:
	

Class: Paladin
Race: Human
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Lawful Good
Deity: None (Paladin's code)
 
Str:    9  -1 (1p.)       Level: 1         XP: 0
Dex:   16  +3 (10p.)      BAB: +1          HP: 12 (1d10+2)
Con:   14  +2 (6p.)       Grapple: +0      Dmg Red: 0/0
Int:   10  +0 (2p.)       Speed: 30'       Spell Res: none
Wis:   14  +2 (6p.)       Init: [COLOR=red]+1[/COLOR]         Spell Save: N/A
Cha:   16  [COLOR=red]+2[/COLOR] (10p.)      ACP: -1          Spell Fail: N/A
 
               Base   Armor   Shld   Dex  [COLOR=red]Size [/COLOR]Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:         10     +3       +0     +3    [COLOR=red]+0[/COLOR]   +0    +0    16
Touch: 13              Flatfooted: 13
 
              Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:        +2      +2    +0     +4
Ref:         +0      [COLOR=red]+4[/COLOR]    +0     +4
Will:        +0      +2    +0     +2
 
Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical
Longbow                  +4       1d8[COLOR=red]+3[/COLOR]         20/x3
Dagger (melee)           +0       1d4-1      19-20/x2
Dagger (thrown)          +4       1d4[COLOR=red]+3[/COLOR]      19-20/x2
 
Languages: Common
 
Abilities: Light armor prof., Smite with bow, Smite Evil 
            4/day, Detect Evil, Aura of Good
 
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Percise Shot, Negotiator
 
Skill Points: [COLOR=#ff0000]20[/COLOR]       Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                   Ranks   Mod    Misc  Total
Diplomacy                  4      +2     +2    +8
Knowledge(religion)        4      +0           +4
Knowledge(nobility)        4      +0           +4
Ride                       4      +3           +7
Sense Motive               4      +2     +2    +8
 
Equipment:                    Cost     Weight
Longbow                        75gp      3lb
Quiver (20arrows)               1gp      3lb
Dagger (3)                      2gp      3lb
Backpack                        2gp      2lb
Studded Leather                25gp     20lb
Hooded Lamp                     7gp      2lb
Signet Ring                     5gp       --
Mirror, Small                  10gp    1/2lb
Soap                            5sp      1lb
 
Total Weight:34.5lb      Money: 22gp 5sp
 
                    Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push
Max Weight:  30lb   60lb  90lb 90lb  450lb

 
-Cha 16 so should be +3 
-Dex is 16 so Init should be +3 thought I mentioned that back when combat started?? maybe not some posts didn't take around then
-Size is not need but change to DB which is half your BAB (or +1)
-Dex mod for Reflex save is +3
-+3 damage with a bow ???
- Str penalty applies to thrown weapons
-According to your "new class" the skill points per lvl are 4 and it looks like they are adding two to every class that had only 2 points ler lvl so that should stay the same and not be adjusted for my houserule. But you already did that so wanted to let you know, that wasn't a mistake that needed corrected 


O.k. now the new lvl ups some things you can do for me if you please:

Lay on Hands:
Pool = 6
Usable = 2/day
Will save vs. Undead = 14
You could copy paste the above and add it to your sheet 

Under misc for your saves you get +2 for Divine Grace but at third level it will change to +3 so maybe list as +2(of 3) maybe 

Go ahead and lvl up on your sheet in the RG and let me know when it is done please. Heading to Spider's Path myself. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Theroc again glad you are back  I was going to keep the Aidan/Martomum posts quiet and have them come back when everyone was ready (after a little group role-playing) but since you are back sooner I will post something and then have Martomum and Aidan re-join the group.

Everyone else anything you want to do afore I have the party rest?

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Hey Theroc again glad you are back  I was going to keep the Aidan/Martomum posts quiet and have them come back when everyone was ready (after a little group role-playing) but since you are back sooner I will post something and then have Martomum and Aidan re-join the group.
> 
> HM




I dropped a nuke on whatever was on my PC.  No idea what it was, but it's mostly dead now.  Combofix owns at getting rid of things.  Anyways, I'm fine either way.  Sorry about the disappearance but it couldn't be helped.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

sorry I haven't been on at all lately the school year is getting hectic


----------



## HolyMan

NP FM I forgot you are a student  I will be pushing Spider's [ath ahead here in a sec I want to get ghostcat's character a couple points of dex before something scary comes out of the woods. (Opps did I type that outloud??)

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Ghost Sound - the poor man's Fear


----------



## HolyMan

LOL ML, I based their reactions on their total saves I think they got a 7, 4, 3, and a 1. So let's just say they were gullible,  great job with the spell btw.

HM


----------



## Sphyh

i think I could have taken em 

good job with spell... hopefully we can everyone back at camp before they come back lol


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Jan1st- Jan15th*

Extra XP given to everyone for the great inter-party RPing 



		Code:
	

Sphyh                         270
Frozen Messiah                260
Myth and Legend               440
Dragonwriter                  270
Theroc                        260
ghostcat                      270

 
*Congrats to Dragonwriter on gaining Level 2 *


----------



## Theroc

ghostcat said:
			
		

> "My plan is to wait until an an hobgoblin is





Methinks you mean Gnoll, unless your character is becoming delusional, or wants us to think he is becoming delusional...


----------



## Theroc

M&L's spoiler said:
			
		

> Well, sorry to be a rules nazi but: Daze "Components: V, S, M" But, i thought instead of pointing it out in the OOC this would be a nice opportunity to have Lora enter her usual _bitch mode_




Trinham was describing FLARE as a dazzle.  Bright light in the face.  Not Daze.  Just thought I'd point that out OOC, as Aidan simply doesn't know enough about magic to correct Lora's mistakes.


----------



## HolyMan

Unbelieveable 6 gnolls out of action in one round???? I was thinking it would go more like two and Martomum could come in and stop the fighting guess when the IC is going you alls way it likes you alot. 

So I am going to update before bed but going out to get pizza now just letting everyone know to be on the look out for a mad dwarf!! LOL

HM


----------



## HolyMan

ALIGNMENT CHECK!! ALIGNMENT CHECK!!

Kind of like saying red alert red alert LOL 

Sphyh I wouldn't have anything to say about your post if your alignment was anything other than Lawful Good.

Now you don't need to change your post if you want to think on changing your alignment. What I'm saying is how do you wish to play your character? I know it is hard to remember what "playing style" you have for a character because so much time goes by and there is no sheet in front of you. Totally up to you though my friend. If you keep the Lawful Good alignment you could say that the "bloodthristy" posts was in responds to getting struck, even good guys get mad.


----------



## Sphyh

I have no problem with my lawful good character killing the gnolls. These are evil creatures that attacked us, twice. The lawful part of my alignment wants to see these creatures punished, put to death as it were. The good side, like you said, is tired and mad and ready to be done with them 

does that make sense? i guess its hard to play a character thats truely lawful, while being "good" or merciful in some situations. there are contradictions. 

"A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished."


----------



## HolyMan

Hmmm... destroying evil is alright but killing defenseless creatures "even evil ones" doesn't feel LG to me, maybe if your character didn't suggest it but was alright with it being done than I would not say "Hey your lawful good stop them." 

But if your character suggested it be done than sat back and let others do it so he "didn't get his hands dirty" or took the knife across their throats himself I would have to think you tended towards another alignment. 

@ everyone: For the record I generally use alignment as a guide to playing your character, not a set in stone rule. If you decide to do something against alignment I am pretty o.k. with it but will question you about it (nobody can be LG everyday, so you are allowed a bad day) But what I really don't want is for you to go "off character" 

In this example, killing the "evil creatures" because everyone knows that all gnolls are evil, but later not killing in a similar situation and using your alignment as the excuse. 

There could be other factors as to why you don't do something typical for your character, my job right now is to learn what is typical so later on I can throw you into some really untypical situations and see how you worm your way out of them. (And besides it is also fun for me  ).

So as I said Sphyh I'm not trying to push you around with your alignment just getting the feel for your character.

HM


----------



## Sphyh

no i def understand HM. i def value the dms opinion  lol. 

i guess maybe this falls in that not typical situation. I mean if this was a band of human thieves who we just routed then yea tie em up and take em to jail or something. but these are evil, ruthless, creatures who, in my opinion, will prob try to kill us first opportunity they get if we let them live. idk i guess perspectives matter huh? 

I have a lawful good character. they attacked me so its lawful to kill em. their evil so my good side has no qualms with that either. so the question becomes is it LG to kill them while they are helpless? i guess the only factor i can tie into that is its only logical to kill them. kill or risk being killed later.


----------



## Theroc

Is Aidan still asleep?


----------



## HolyMan

Internal confilct Sphyh defiently what I am going for  but more importantly* character development *great post in the IC btw if I rememeber your character grew up a slave so his "old world" was black and white now he needs to learn that that is not always the case (this will be fun)




Theroc said:


> Is Aidan still asleep?




I think someone took the dwarves advice and woke you up and everyone sat around listening to the story.

HM


----------



## Sphyh

most def HM and thanks. it might be a slow progression away from LG as he learns that his high ideals might not be practical or safe in this "brave new world" (thought i throw a random literary illusion in there for good measure)


----------



## Theroc

It doesn't appear anyone woke Aidan in the IC, how long does Sleep last?


----------



## HolyMan

It's o.k. Theroc I'm sure someone did wake him before Martomum started his story, so Aidan would have been awake to hear it.  
Stuff like that would take way to long in a playong system that already takes way to long LOL 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

could someone give me the cliff notes of the readers digest of whats going on in the game as far as our mission goes? i just jumped in and their was combat and im lost lol.... what manor?


----------



## ghostcat

Sphyh said:


> could someone give me the cliff notes of the readers digest of whats going on in the game as far as our mission goes? i just jumped in and their was combat and im lost lol.... what manor?




Try here


----------



## Sphyh

thanks ghostcat  that would have taken forever to find on my own. 

HM what kind of amulet did i get? does my character know or is it not magical? im curious


----------



## HolyMan

LOL thought you might be curious at that:

For gaming purposes and to not keep you in suspence forever it is an Amulet of Natural Armor +1 now,

Onesimus will not know it is magical until someone tells him it is but I'm sure he will be keeping it for a while in anycase. 

I almost used Jareth to tell Onesimus that it was, he can detect magic but I don't think his character would have told you.

So for the record (on your sheet and all) Sphyh knows what it is but Onesimus does not. 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

awesome thanks HM  maybe i can talk one of my new comrades into figuring it out or next time were in town ill try and find out what it is.


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, due to Jareth’s level-up and your allowances concerning “tweaking” classes, I’d like to know if I could swap the Duskblade 2nd-level bonus feat “Combat Casting” for something else… I was thinking Power Attack, if that’s alright with you.

I will post the update and then alter the sheet later, probably after I get a full response on this. Thanks!


----------



## HolyMan

Swapping feats is allowed just make note in your advancments post. 

i.e. 2nd lvl Duskblade: granted, Combat Casting - swap for Power Attack

Glad to have you back and great post in the IC btw 

Will be moving things along shortly, I think everyone is ready.

HM


----------



## Sphyh

quick question. i use to have access to lots of material but its all gone now that my bro has moved out and took all the books with him. i use to have a weapon master prestige classed fighter and i was hoping to build my current fighter in that direction (idk if we will ever get far enough but regardless its a good build even without the class) does someone have sword and fist and could post the prerequisites for the class for me?


----------



## Theroc

Sphyh said:


> quick question. i use to have access to lots of material but its all gone now that my bro has moved out and took all the books with him. i use to have a weapon master prestige classed fighter and i was hoping to build my current fighter in that direction (idk if we will ever get far enough but regardless its a good build even without the class) does someone have sword and fist and could post the prerequisites for the class for me?




Sword and Fist is a 3.0 book, IIRC.  This is a 3.5 game.  You may want to double check with HM if he's allowing material from that book.  If that's already happened and I missed it, feel free to ignore me.


----------



## HolyMan

*from good ole google*

*Weapon Master*

*From Avlis Wiki*


Jump to: navigation, search
*Classes:* Barbarian | Bard | Cleric | Druid | Fighter | Monk | Paladin | Psion | Ranger | Rogue | Sorcerer | Wizard
*Prestige Classes:* Arcane Archer | Assassin | Dwarven Defender | Pale Master | Shadowdancer | Shifter | *Weapon Master*Image:Ir wm.gif
*Description*: (Prestige Class) For the weapon master, perfection is found in the mastery of a single melee weapon. A weapon master seeks to unite this weapon of choice with his body, to make them one, and to use the weapon as naturally and without thought as any other limb. 
*Hit Die*: d10 
*Proficiencies*: None 
*Skill Points*: 2 + NWN:Int mod 
*Skills*: Discipline, Heal, Intimidate, Listen, Lore, Spot 
*Selectable Class feats*: Ambidexterity, Deflect Arrows, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Proficiency (Exotic), Weapon Proficiency (Martial), Weapon Proficiency (Simple) 
*Primary Saving Throw(s)*: Reflex 
Image:Weapon Master.jpg 
*Contents*

[hide]

<LI class=toclevel-1>1 Requirements <LI class=toclevel-1>2 Special Abilities & Feats <LI class=toclevel-1>3 Epic Weapon Master 
4 Notes
*Requirements*

*Base Attack Bonus*: +5 
*Feats*: Dodge, Mobility, Expertise, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (melee weapon), Whirlwind Attack 
*Skills*: Intimidate 4 
*Special Abilities & Feats*


Level 1 Ki Damage, Weapon of choice
Level 5 Increased Multiplier, Superior Weapon Focus
Level 7 Ki Critical
Level 13 Epic Superior Weapon Focus
Image:Ife x2epwm.gif
*Epic Weapon Master*

*Hit Die*: d10 
*Skill Points*: 2 + Int mod 
*Bonus Feats*: 13, 16, 19, 22, 25, 28 
*Epic Bonus Feats*: Armor Skin, Blinding Speed, Devastating Critical, Epic Damage Reduction, Epic Toughness, Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Focus, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Overwhelming Critical, Superior Initiative, Weapon of Choice 
*Notes*


Requires Hordes of the Underdark.
It is not possible to create a Weapon Master with unarmed or a ranged weapon.
Because of the prerequisite feats associated with this Prestige Class, a Dexterity and Intelligence score of 13 is required.
Although unspecified in the manual or in the game description, it is possible to take a second Weapon of Choice at Weapon Master Level 13+. This is done as a bonus feat as long as you have Weapon Focus in the 2nd weapon thus fulfilling all the prerequisites.
Weapon Master and Shadowdancer are the only classes lacking the generic class skills craft weapon, craft trap, craft armor as well as concentration and Parry (all are cross-class skills).
Although the ultimate specialist in a single weapon, Weapon Masters cannot take Weapon Specialization and Epic Weapon Specialization without taking at least 4 Fighter levels. One Fighter or Champion of Torm epic level must be taken for Epic Weapon Specialization, leaving room for 29 Weapon Master levels. The last weapon master bonus feat and AB increase is at level 28, so not much is lost by going that route.
Retrieved from "http://wiki.avlis.org/Weapon_Master"
Categories: Prestige classes | Classes


----------



## HolyMan

Now I googled that up and found the requirements but to me that looks like a fast, light armored, hits alot but little damage fighter.

The build I see for Onesimus is heavy armored, heavy damage, hits you once and you know it.  (poor gnolls)

I have np with 3.0 stuff it will probably be weaker than 3.5 but I say we try and build different types of weapon masters (but keep the base) 

Weapon Master A: Weapon Focus, Combat Expertise
Weapon Master B: Weapon Focus, Power Attack
Weapon Master C: Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot

The types of warriors are endless of course it just has to be what you prefer.

Think on it, we can build a new prestige class as we go. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Okay, I'm finished with the level-up info. I posted my alterations in a second post in the RG, and I'm also putting them here for ease of access. Once I get the okay from you, HM, I'll update Jareth's sheet.

[sblock=Jareth Level 2 Changes]
Jareth Level-up

HP (d8+2): +10
BAB increases to +2.
Fort and Will saves increase to +3.
Gain one more 0-level spell per day (total 4/day) and one more 1st-level spell per day (total 4/day). Learn new 1st-level spell (Burning Hands).
Gain bonus feat Combat Casting. Swap Combat Casting for Combat Reflexes.
Gain 8 skill points (2 base +2 House Rule +3 INT +1 Human): Concentration +1 (total 7), Sense Motive +1 (total 5), Ride +1 (total 6), Swim +2 (total 6) Knowledge: Arcana +1 (total 8), Spell craft +1 (total 10), Tumble +1 (total 6). Skill increases grant a +2 on Spellcraft checks and a +2 bonus on Jump checks due to synergies (Know: Arcana and Tumble, respectively).
[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

All looks good to me DW, go ahead and fix your stats and add one more thing to your character sheet. Since I don't have all the books new things need to be included so if I NPC you I know what you can do so add this:

[sblock=Arcane Attunement]Starting at 1st level, a duskblade learns to use _dancing lights, detect magic, flare, ghost sound,_ and _read magic _as spell-like abilities. You can use these powers a combined total of times each day equal to three plus your Intelligence modifier. These powers don't count against your number of spells known or against the spells you can cast each day. [/sblock]

Thanks and 20 hp now hmmm.... 

HM


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## Dragonwriter

Okay, done. And I added the Arcane Attunement description in the post.

C'mon, now... Don't do anything too mean...  
Jareth is by no means a legit meat-shield. He's (at best) a skirmisher...

And it's one of the few times IC hasn't given me some crap roll...


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> C'mon, now... Don't do anything too mean...
> Jareth is by no means a legit meat-shield. He's (at best) a skirmisher...




Your asking this of the DM who tried to have an assassin vine encounter while the group was climbing down a cliff??? HUH?? (that would have been so sweet  )




Dragonwriter said:


> And it's one of the few times IC hasn't given me some crap roll...




I would take bad rolls for a month for max hp any day. Good luck in your next combat. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Hey ML glad you are around you could start a "Let's get going" post and see who follows LOL 

But as to your post 


		Code:
	

BTW FM I wouldn't recommend getting that Lay on Hands flavor thing. The math
speaks against it, and this is coming from a person who hates math :P
Lay on Hands can be used once per day to heal up to your Paladin level x your
 cha modifier. In Claude's case that would be 2x3 or a total of 6 HP. At level
 3, that would be 9 HP worth of healing. If you take the flavor ruling, you
 effectively halve your healing - out of 10 attempts at lay on hand, an 
average of 5 will succeed. In return you will get 2 or 3 points extra. 10
 attempts at lvl 3 = 3 x 3 x 10 = 90 points of healing. 5 attempts at lvl 3 +
 5 times the 3 HP flat bonus granted by the flavor = 3 x 3 x 5 + 5 x 3 = 60
 points of healing. at level 10 that would be (considering you leave your CHA
 at 16) 10 x 3 x 10 = 300 points of healing
 
10 x 3 x 5 + 5 x 10 = 200 points of healing. So, it's not worth it at both low
 and higher levels . Not to mention that if it fails in a critical situation but
 rolls the 50% in an off-battle healing attempt you'd be very annoyed.

 
I think FM is using an alternate Lay on hands ability, see the following:


		Code:
	

Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 
12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. She
 gains a pool of healing, which allows her to heal a total number of hit points
 of damage equal to her paladin level × her Charisma bonus. A paladin
 may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she
 doesn’t have to use it all at once.
 
 A Paladin may fill this pool with a full minute (10 rounds) of concentration and
 prayer. Refreshing the pool brings the Paladin's pool of healing back up to the
 maximum (Paladin level *Charisma Bonus). She may fill her healing pool a
 number of times per day equal to 1 + half her Charisma modifier (rounded
 down).
 
Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage
 to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful 
melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
 The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as
 damage after successfully touching an undead creature. The target may make
 a Will save(DC 10+1/2 Paladin Level+Cha) to negate the damage.
 
The paladin's Lay on Hands gains additional capabilities as she progresses in
 level as a paladin. The paladin may use all additional effects in conjunction 
with healing, as long as she spends enough points

 

No need to redo the math it might get really complacated.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

I have access to _everything_. So if someone needs a write up on a PrC/Class/Spell/Feat etc. just ask. BTW I now remembered that HM had asked for the Duskblade writeup. While i'm too lazy to write the whole thing over from the PHB2, i found a link that seems to be accurate. Here.

On Lora being leader: well she certainly is smart enough to make the right and logical decisions, and she is trying her best not to be ruled by emotions. However her low CHA and problems with communication will make it difficult for her.

[sblock=To HM]Damn it i think i messed up Lora's build. I took the Milita feat so that i could then get levels in Eldritch Knight, as that was my idea of a warrior/mage type hero with only DMG/PHB resources. However later on you allowed other sources, provided they were written here or otherwise made accessible to you. So, there are better options than spending a feat to get proficiency with martial weapons. For example, getting a level in Dragonslayer gets both all weapons and all armours, and armour is required for the Spellsword PrC that i ultimately want to get.

So now... I can continue with the Wizard/Spellsword/Eldritch Knight build but if you rule that Spellsword does not require all armour proficiencies (which sort of does not make sense, provided it ultimately allows one to cast in armour with up to 30% spell failure negated. 

Or you can rule that a level in Eldritch Knight grants them (i can get that past Wizard 6 with my Milita feat, and it would justify getting that feat.)

Or i can get a level in Dragon Slayer, but then i'd really need to swap Milita for Iron Will which is a prerequisite for the PrC.

Or... i don't know  What do you think?[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

I'm at work from 8am to 4pm

I'm out in the snow 4pm - 7pm because I got in a car accident. (I am ok)

I'm at dinner 7pm -9pm (cuze I was hungry)

And all the while my group is cozy and warm role-playing. Loved what I saw in Spider's Path. It was all great 

Except nothing from Theroc (he is having computer problems and his mom is not well correct??) even if there's no ready to go from him by tomorrow night I will be moving things forward after I do XP (yes it is that time again) and you all have done excellent. Spider's Path is almost done and the bonus XP for completing the quest should put some of you at lvl 3 and others (Sphyh) at lvl 2. 

But before that, well you will see tommorrow night... 

[sblock=To ML]
Hmm.. Not sure on the Spellsword class I looked it up and I can't see Lora running around the battlefield in full plate even if she did have a 0% chance of failure. What would be the ideal build if you say hit 15 lvl??
We can look at that and work are way back and see what we need. And like I told Sphyh we could create a new prestige class.

Note: I would like to see a character progress in armor than just get new abilities(prof) all of the sudden cuze they took a class. Always hated when someone took one lvl in fighter, and it didn't fit with what they did before gaining that lvl. [/sblock]


----------



## Myth and Legend

[sblock=HM]Well yes think that powergaming stuff - take one level of that, and two levels of this, and five levels of this, to make a mean meatgrinder/caster or whatever hurts roleplaying.

However Lora was intended to be a warrior/mage from the start. At that time i was in a game and was running a lvl 20 Wizard so i didn't want another full progression caster. Hence me taking Milita, Dodge, and investing in STR and DEX.

I think that by far the best warrior/mage would ultimately include 10 levels of Spellsword - the ASF reduction will indeed allow Lora to fight in a Mithral Full plate with 0% spell failure. That was always one of the goals for me - to have her sacrifice some caster levels to gain versatility and durability. I saw that one full attack at later levels can drop an unprepared caster, and since i didn't want to focus on save or die spells, and blasting later on becomes pointless, i decided that even i'm lacking 6 caster levels i can still haste and stoneskin her and throw her in to melee.

The Channel Spell ability also looks very interesting to me, delivering magic in a unique way o the battlefield. Here is the full write up on Spellsword directly from Complete Warrior:

[sblock=SPELLSWORD]The dream of melding magic and weaponplay is fulfilled in the person of the spellsword. A student of both arcane rituals and martial techniques, the spellsword gradually learns to cast spells in armor with less chance of failure. Moreover, he can cast spells trough his weapon, bypassing his opponent's defenses.

Despite the class's name, a spellsword can use any weapon or even switch weapons. "Spellaxe", "spellspear", and other appellations for this prestige class are certainly possible but not commonly used. The requirements for this presitige class make it most attractive to multiclass wizard/fighters or sorcerer/fighters, although bard/fighters can meet the requirements just as easily.

Feared by other martial characters because of his ability to use spells, and feared by spellcasters because of his ability to cast those spells while wearing armor, a spellsword often walks the world alone.

*Hit Die: 8*

*Requirements:* To qualify to become a spellsword, a character must fulfill the following criteria:

*Base attack bonus:* +4
*Skills:* Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks.
*Feats:* Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light).
*Spells:* Able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.
*Special:* Must have defeated a foe trough force of arms alone, without recourse to spellcasting.

*Class Skills

*The spellswords class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Knowledge (Int), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)

*Skill points at each level*: 2 + Int modifier.

*Class Features*

All of the following are class features of the spellsword prestige class.

*Spells per day:* At every odd-number level, a spellsword gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on), save for increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a spellsword, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

*Ignore spell failure (Ex):* Beginning at 1st level, a spellsword's hard work and practice at merging spellcraft with weaponry starts to pay off. As an extraordinary ability, he ignores a portion of the arcanse spell failure chance associated with using armor. This reduction starts with 10% and gradually increases to 30%, as shown on the class table. A spellsword subtracts the given percentage value from his total spell failure chance, if any. For instance, a character wearing scale mail and carrying a small shield normally has a spell failure chance of 30%, but this drops only to 20% for a 1st-level spellsword.

*Bonus Feat:* At 2nd level, a spellsword advances his art, gaining a bonus feat. This bonus feat must be either a metamagic feat or one drawn from the list of bonus feats allowed to a fighter (see Table 5-1 on page 90 of the _Player's Handbook_)

*Channel Spell (Sp)*: At 4th level, a spellsword can channel he can cast into his melee weapon. Using this ability requires a move action, and the spellsword uses up the prepared spell or spell slot just as if he had cast the spell. The channeled spell affects the next target that the spellsword successfully attacks with his weapon (saving throws and spell resistance still apply). Even if the spell normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target. The spell is discharged from the weapon, which can then hold another spell. A spellsword can channel his spells in to only one weapon at a time. Spells channeled in a weapon are lost if not used in 8 hours.

*Multiple Channel Spell (Sp)*: A 10th level spellsword can channel two spells in to his melee weapon, using a move action to channel each one. Both channeled spells affect the target the spellsword successfully attacks with his weapon, in the order the spells were placed in to the weapon. As with the _channel spell_ class feature, saving throws and spell resistance apply normally. Each time a spellsword uses _multiple channel spell_, two of his five _channel spell_ uses per day are expended.

Table 2-32: The Spellsword (can't make tables in ENWorld )
*
Level 1:* BAB +1, Fort +2, Ref+0, Will +2, Ignore spell failure 10%, +1 caster level.
*Level 2:* BAB +2, Fort +3, Ref+0, Will +3, Bonus feat
*Level 3:* BAB +3, Fort +3, Ref+1, Will +3, Ignore spell failure 15%, +1 caster level.
*Level 4:* BAB +4, Fort +4, Ref+1, Will +4, _Channel spell_ 3 /day
*Level 5:* BAB +5, Fort +4, Ref+1, Will +4, Ignore spell failure 20%, +1 caster level.
*Level 6:* BAB +6, Fort +5, Ref+2, Will +5, _Channel spell_ 4 /day
*Level 7:* BAB +7, Fort +5, Ref+2, Will +5, Ignore spell failure 25%, +1 caster level.
*Level 8:* BAB +8, Fort +6, Ref+2, Will +6, _Channel spell_ 5 /day
*Level 9:* BAB +9, Fort +6, Ref+3, Will +6, Ignore spell failure 30%, +1 caster level.
*Level 10:* BAB +10, Fort +7, Ref+3, Will +7, _Multiple Channel spell_[/sblock]

I really like everything about that class. My ideal situation at level 15 depends on certain things. If i know she will get past level 15, i will get 6 levels of Wizard to make use of the increase in saving throws they get at that level. If not, I'll aim for maximum levels in Spellsword. Also, there comes the problem with the lack of armor proficiency.

So, Ideally at level 15, Lora is a Wizard 6/Spellsword 9. At level 20, she is Wizard 6, Spellsword 10, Eldritch Knight 4.

If the armor thing is such a problem, I'd be happy if you allow me to take a different feat in place of the Milita feat (something to help Lora get to WW attack as that thing requires a boatload of feats). and just grab a fighter level. While normally that would make it a powergaming choice, a level in fighter in a war campaign seems adequate. 

So, if you allow me to swap Milita with something else as i get the fighter level (there are rules for feat retraining in the PHBII i can post them if you wish). Lora's build at level 15 can be such:
Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 8. At level 20 she will be Wizard 6/ Fighter 1/ Spellsword 10/ Eldritch Knight 3.

She will cast spells as a 13th level Wizard, but get to ignore 30% ASF, get to use that awesome _Channel Spell_ability, and have very a decent BAB of 17.

Honestly the Milita feat had two uses in my build:

1 - Justify Lora's beginnings as a warrior/mage, her ties to the military training, her brother and the whole rape scenario.
2 - save me a level of Fighter and thus granting Lora one more caster level (which as i see now is not that important as she can still cast level 7 spells at lvl 20 even with a level of fighter added)

Phew, that was a lot of writing  [/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Jan 16th - Jan 31st*



		Code:
	

Sphyh                         370
Frozen Messiah                490
ghostcat                      480
Myth and Legend               490
DragonWriter                  170
Theroc                        360

 
*Congrats to ML for reaching Level 3*

And looks like from the RG that Onesimus, Trinham, and Aidan will be leveling up the 15th of Feb  awesome

[sblock=ML]
Umm... A wizards BAB doesn't reach +4 till lvl 8 am I missing something? [/sblock]


----------



## Myth and Legend

Yay Level 3!  I leveled Lora up in the RG, she got max HP this time! [sblock=HM]Yes damn it here is why i had to take that ED level at CL7 now i remembered! I had written it like that initially but then changed it as i got distracted  So yeah, think of it as Wizard6/ED1/SS10/ED3  

 Also, I went for Mobility now. It seems she will indeed have enough feats to get WW attack, and soon! She will get a bonus Wizard feat at lvl 5 which will be Quicken Spell (to get those lovely Quickened True Strikes later on)

She will then get a regular feat at LVL 6 which will be Combat Expertise

She will get an extra fighter feat at CLVL 7 (first ED lvl) which will be Spring Attack since by then she will have 4 BAB.

She will then get a regular feat and a bonus feat at Clvl9 (2nd SS lvl) - The regular feat will be Arcane Strike, the other one - WHIRLWIND ATTACK WOOHOOO!  By the way I'm guessing you don't have anything against Arcane Strike? Or it working with a WW attack?[/sblock]


----------



## Theroc

Hm... I know the basic concept of Aidan, but am starting to wonder if I know the best 'mechanical' setup for him.

Basically, I plan on making him a 'warrior/mage' via Dragon Disciple and Sorcerer, but I'm not sure if I should supplement anything else in there, as my spells will be weak and I'll definitely be hurting my BAB.

lol

Anyways, not a big deal at the moment.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Wow we have 3 hybrid characters and a battle sorcerer already.. Why all the sudden love for sacrificing power for versatility  Theroc - you should read this article. I know i did


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Wow we have 3 hybrid characters and a battle sorcerer already.. Why all the sudden love for sacrificing power for versatility  Theroc - you should read this article. I know i did




I had ALWAYS planned for Aidan to slowly unlock magic in his blood.  It's why I mentioned he had distant ties to nobility.  My idea was that dragon blood was long passed through the nobility of the area, generally watered down.  Aidan happens to have enough of it to manifest supernatural gifts(or spells).

Oh, HM.  Aidan has no rations.  He was not prepared for traveling separated from the camp as none had told him to supply his own rations(militaries usually provide those for their men.)


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Theroc said:


> Oh, HM. Aidan has no rations. He was not prepared for traveling separated from the camp as none had told him to supply his own rations(militaries usually provide those for their men.)




Claude is in the same problem at the moment since I believed that we would be alongside a military force for the entire time, I think we will be all right though as long as Moggins keeps with the senseless killing of fuzzy animals


----------



## Myth and Legend

Well they can both complain to Lora, I'm sure she'd understand... Well maybe she won't  But she'd share some rations.


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> I had ALWAYS planned for Aidan to slowly unlock magic in his blood. It's why I mentioned he had distant ties to nobility. My idea was that dragon blood was long passed through the nobility of the area, generally watered down. Aidan happens to have enough of it to manifest supernatural gifts(or spells).
> 
> Oh, HM. Aidan has no rations. He was not prepared for traveling separated from the camp as none had told him to supply his own rations(militaries usually provide those for their men.)






Frozen Messiah said:


> Claude is in the same problem at the moment since I believed that we would be alongside a military force for the entire time, I think we will be all right though as long as Moggins keeps with the senseless killing of fuzzy animals




I knew you didn't have any food (lol) but your friends have a little extra go ahead and RP it guys. 

Also on builds, I will do my best to help accomidate 

HM


----------



## Theroc

I'm starting to think the biggest 'powergaming' problem I am having is the fact that Dragon Disciple does nothing with spellcasting.  Due to that, at the highest levels, Aidan will only be capable of casting 3rd level spells at best, which most certainly does not qualify as a true hybrid... granted, he becomes MUCH stronger physically, and can fly.

Armor would not really fit what I had in mind for Aidan, as he was meant to be more of an agile unarmored combatant who used his wits and such to get by.  So, I'm not precisely sure what would be good for him to pursue.  There is a Monk/Spellcasting PrC in Complete Arcane, but I could not pursue both it AND Dragon Disciple to their ends(both are 10 level PrC's).

HM, would there be some form of tradeoff I could get with Dragon Disciple to allow it to progress casting progression?  Perhaps losing the bonus spells and getting half (3 or 4) levels of casting progression?


----------



## HolyMan

Hmmm.... looking over the DD PrC we could weakin it and strengthin it at the same time.

Now this is just a real quick go over (I need to go make dinner) but I think we could take down all the ability boosts by 1, and decrease the natural armor bonus by one (so new max is +3), change the breath weapon dmg from d8s to d6s and for that you could change bonus spells to +1 existing arcane spellcasting level

Let me know what you think. 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Heheh i just remembered that Lora is still only human - and an 18 year old girl at that! Added some hormone induced mixed feelings, this will help her grow i think  

Oh, on an unrelated note, i decided to take that level in ED at CLVL 6 instead of going with six levels of Wizard. I don't think that a point in Will and Dex saving throws are better than +1 BAB and 4HD. So there 

Theroc if you need help with Aidan's planning i can look stuff up for you, especially if you are lacking sources.

HM, do you still need the full writeup on Duskblade from the PHB2?


----------



## HolyMan

Only when you find the time ML (and thanks in advance)

btw ML I'm guessing I didn't explain the level up post in the RG correctly as you put in another post but what I was looking for was a single post with all your level ups in it. And another post in the RG for character background (with links to these in your main character sheet.

So your lvl up post would look like this:

[sblock=Level 2] Upgrades and changes [/sblock]

[sblock=Level 3] Upgrades and changes [/sblock]

[sblock=Level 4] Upgrades and changes [/sblock]


And what I was talking to Theroc way back was another part of the RG where you list/talk about personality changes and why the character has a "new" trait, quirk or other chang from the original. Still a work in process this is. 

So if you could please put your lvl 3 changes in with your lvl 2 ones I don't want them scattered all over.

HM


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Heheh i just remembered that Lora is still only human - and an 18 year old girl at that! Added some hormone induced mixed feelings, this will help her grow i think




Heh, yeah, Aidan's not too refined yet.  After all, he was just a farmboy.




			
				M&L said:
			
		

> Theroc if you need help with Aidan's planning i can look stuff up for you, especially if you are lacking sources.




I'm not sure if I'd say I'm exactly lacking resources so much as a plan for how to maximize his build.  My sig shows my sources.  I basically can never access that rarely section, as they are at my ex-girlfriend's library which is like 80 miles away.

I had thought perhaps a mesh of Monk, Sorcerer, enlightened fist, and Dragon Disciple, but I'm not certain.  Aidan's meant to be a flighty skirmisher with a few tricks up his sleeve to handle a headon fight.  So far I'm trying to gauge whether he'll actually be of use in a fight, as he tends to get taken out pretty quickly.  Granted, makes decent character development as he is questioning his own ability to make his destiny.

So, yes I would say I need help.  

HM, your compromise is something I'd think on, but am not certain of yet, as he'd obviously take a huge hit on his ability scores(as well as still taking the BAB hit) while gaining more spellcasting.  Something to think on.


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM: edited the lvl up post as requested. Also, i have a Level Advancement tab that you can check as well. If you'd like me to, i can add in the reasons i've stated for Lora gaining new abilities.

Theroc: Let me look in to it. HM is agianst "dipping" in classes to gain powerful features i think. Otherwise you can't go wrong with 2 levels of Paladin for a CHA based caster.

[sblock=DUSKBLADE]Directly from PHBII

The duskblade blurs the line between spellcaster and warrior, marrying the power of magic with hand-to-hand combat prowess.

A student of ancient elven spellcasting techniques, the duskblade combines arcane spellcasting with the combat skills of a fighter. While the ability to cast arcane spells in armor originated with the elves, over the millennia the secrets of the duskblade have been disseminated to the other races, and today members of any race can become a duskblade.

If you find you can't choose between being an arcane spellcaster who zaps your enemies with powerful spells and a nimble, powerful front-line melee character who lays them down with a sword, the duskblade is the perfect class for you. Combining arcane magic with melee prowess, you're prepared in any situation. Enemies who underestimate you never get a second chance, since you don't even have to switch back and forth between hands-on combat and spellcasting; you can do both simultaneously.

*MAKING A DUSKBLADE*

The duskblade is a quintessential hybrid character, simultaneously a potent spellcaster and an effective melee combatant. The original duskblades were elite guardians in an ancient elf empire, duelmasters and arcane spellcasters beyond compare. Historical accounts vary on why they were called duskblades; some say the name is symbolic of how they combined swordplay and arcane magic - a night-and-day combination. Others contend that the duskblades earned their name when they were charged with preserving the elf race in the face of a tide of darkness and evil.

The most powerful dusklbades can duel a fighter to a stand-still and match a wizard spell for spell - for a while, at least. But the class really comes into its own when you embrace your hybrid nature, using a quick-cast spell to supplement you melee attacks or combining a touch spell with a devastating sword strike.

The duskblade is a good choice for players who know they want a  sword-wielding arcane spellcaster from the beginning. By contrast, multiclass fighter/wizard combinations and prestige classes such as the eldritch knight are better suited for characters who begin their careers as fighters or arcane spellcasters and only later contemplate embracing their opposite.

*Abilities:* Your Intelligence and Strength scores should be as high as possible, since your spellcasting and melee combat depend upon them. Your constitution is also important, because you need all the hit points you can get.
*
Races:* The duskblade class originated among the ancient elves, and to this day most duskblades are elves. However, some humans and half-elves also have proved adept at mastering the class's dual focus on combat and spellcasting. Halfings, gnomes, dwarves and half-orcs rarely enter this class.

*Alignment:* Since the duskblade class originated among the elves, those who undergo the intense training required to master the class abilities at the hands of an elf mentor often end their apprenticeship sharing the chaotic good alignment of most elves. However, dusklbades are highly individualist and can be of any alignment.

*Starting Gold:* 6d4x10 gp (150 gp).
*Starting Age:* As wizard (PH 109).

*CLASS FEATURES*

Your class features are simple to characterize: constant improvement in your spellcasting, a fighter's base attack bonus progression, and ever0increasing mastery of arcane magic in melee combat.
*
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:* Duskblades are proficient with all martial weapons, as well as all armors and shields (except tower shields).

*Spells:* You cast arcane spells, which are drawn from the duskblade spell list on page 98. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time. _(ML's note: I'm not going to include 10 pages of spells here. Should you need the writeup on a specific one, ask)

_To learn or cast a spell, you must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Int 10 for 0 level spells, Int 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against your spell is 10+the spell level+your Int modifier.

You can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Your base daily spell allotment is given on Table 1-3. In addition, you receive bonus spells per day if your have a high Intelligence bonus.

Each time you gain a new class level, you learn one additional spell of any level you can cast, chosen from the duskblade spell list.

Upon reaching 5th level, and at every subsequent odd-numbered level, you can choose to learn a new spell in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose access to the old spell in exchange for gaining the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. For instance, upon reaching 9th level, you could trade in a single 1st-level spell (two levels below the highest-level spell you can cast, which is 3rd) for a different 1st-level spell. You can swap only a single spell at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that you gain new spells known for the level.

You need not prepare spells in advance. You can cast any spell you know at any time, assuming you have not yet used up your spells per day for that spell level.

*Arcane Attunement (Sp):* You can use the spell-like powers _dancing lights, detect magic, flare, ghost sound,_ and _read magic_ a combined total of times per day equal to 3+your Int modifier. These spell-like powers do not count against your total of spells know or spells per day.

*Armored Mage (Ex):* Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster's gestures, which can cause spells to fail if those spells have a somatic component. A duskblades's limited focus and specialized training, however, allows you to avoid arcane spell failure so long as you stick to light armor and light shields. This training does not extend to medium or heavy armors, nor to heavy shields. This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.

At 4th level, you learn to use medium armor with no chance of arcane spell failure.

At 7th level, you learn to use a heavy shield with no chance of arcane spell failure.

*Combat Casting: *At 2nd level, you gain Combat Casting as a bonus feat.

*Arcane Channeling (Su):* Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell trough your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action  or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.

At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as a part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.

*Quick Cast:* Beginning at 5th level, you can cast one spell each day as a swift action, so long as the casting time of the spell is 1 standard action or less.

You can use this ability twice per day at 10th level, three times per day at 15th level, and four times per day at 20th level.

*Spell Power (Ex):* Starting at 6th level, you can more easily overcome the spell resistance of any opponent you successfully injure with a melee attack. If you have injured an an opponent with a melee attack, you gain a +2 bonus on your caster level check to overcome spell resistance for the remainder of the encounter. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level, to +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 18th level.

*Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level):* Climb, concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Jump, Knowledge (all skills taken individually), Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Swim

*Table 1-3: The Duskblade*

*Level 1:* BAB + 1, Fort: +2, Ref +0, Will +2, _Arcane attunement_, armored mage (light). *0 lvl spells:* 3 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 2/day

*Level 2:* BAB + 2, Fort: +3, Ref +0, Will +3, Combat Casting. *0 lvl spells:* 4 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 3/day

*Level 3:* BAB + 3, Fort: +3, Ref +1, Will +3, Arcane channeling. *0 lvl spells:* 5 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 4/day

*Level 4:* BAB + 4, Fort: +4, Ref +1, Will +4, Armored mage (medium). *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 5/day

*Level 5:* BAB +5, Fort: +4, Ref +1, Will +4, Quick cast 1/day. *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 5/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 2/day

*Level 6:* BAB +6/+1, Fort: +5, Ref +2, Will +5, Spel power +2. *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 6/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 3/day

*Level 7:* BAB +7/+2, Fort: +5, Ref +2, Will +5, Armored mage (heavy shield). *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 6/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 5/day

*Level 8:* BAB +8/+3, Fort: +6, Ref +2, Will +6, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 7/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 6/day

*Level 9:* BAB +9/+4, Fort: +6, Ref +3, Will +6, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 7/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 6/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 2/day

*Level 10:* BAB +10/+5, Fort: +7, Ref +3, Will +7, Quick cast 2/day, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 8/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 7/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 3/day


*Level 11:* BAB +11/+6/+1, Fort: +7, Ref +3, Will +7, Spell power +3, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 8/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 7/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 5/day

*Level 12:* BAB +12/+7/+2, Fort: +8, Ref +4, Will +8, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 8/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 8/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 6/day

*Level 13:* BAB +13/+8/+3, Fort: +8, Ref +4, Will +8, Arcane channeling (full attack) *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 9/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 8/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 6/day, *4th lvl spells:* 2/day

*Level 14:* BAB +14/+9/+4, Fort: +9, Ref +4, Will +9 *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 9/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 8/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 7/day, *4th lvl spells:* 3/day

*Level 15:* BAB +15/+10/+5, Fort: +9, Ref +5, Will +9, Quick cast 3/day, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 9/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 8/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 7/day, *4th lvl spells:* 5/day

*Level 16:* BAB +16/+11/+6/+1, Fort: +10, Ref +5, Will +10, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 9/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 9/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 8/day, *4th lvl spells:* 6/day

*Level 17:* BAB +17/+12/+7/+2, Fort: +10, Ref +5, Will +10, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 10/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 9/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 8/day, *4th lvl spells:* 6/day, *5th lvl spells:* 2/day

*Level 18:* BAB +18/+13/+8/+3, Fort: +11, Ref +6, Will +11, Spell power + 5, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 10/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 9/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 8/day, *4th lvl spells:* 7/day, *5th lvl spells:* 3/day

*Level 19:* BAB +19/+14/+9/+4, Fort: +11, Ref +6, Will +11, *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 10/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 9/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 9/day, *4th lvl spells:* 7/day, *5th lvl spells:* 5/day

*Level 20:* BAB +20/+15/+10/+5, Fort: +12, Ref +6, Will +12, Quick cast 4/day *0 lvl spells:* 6 /day, *1st lvl spells:* 10/day, *2nd lvl spells:* 10/day, *3rd lvl spells:* 10/day, *4th lvl spells:* 8/day, *5th lvl spells:* 6/day[/sblock]


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Theroc: Let me look in to it. HM is agianst "dipping" in classes to gain powerful features i think. Otherwise you can't go wrong with 2 levels of Paladin for a CHA based caster.




I'm actually not a fan of dipping myself either, simply because I can always see abilities I'd like to have later in a tree... which becomes problematic.  But I do see your point, particularly since almost everything unique about Aidan will be keyed on his charisma.


----------



## Theroc

HM, let me see if I understand your proposal for Dragon Disciple.

Instead of, at maximum level, gaining 8 strength, 2 con, 2 int, and 2 cha, he gains 6 strength, 1 con, 1 int, and 1 cha.  Instead of gaining +4 NAC, he gains +3 NAC, and his breath weapon (which can be used only once per day) is weakened from a d8 to a d6, his bonus spells become +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class?


----------



## HolyMan

Excatly on the stats (I did not know the breath weapon was once per day) maybe just lose a d8 on that let me check when I get home.

Now for the +1 exsiting lvl it wouldn't be in place of spells you would get it every lvl so a +10 caster lvls (some dragons are very good spell casters)

I'm at work so really can't give you a good accounting but that was what i was my line of thinking.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Excatly on the stats (I did not know the breath weapon was once per day) maybe just lose a d8 on that let me check when I get home.
> 
> Now for the +1 exsiting lvl it wouldn't be in place of spells you would get it every lvl so a +10 caster lvls (some dragons are very good spell casters)
> 
> I'm at work so really can't give you a good accounting but that was what i was my line of thinking.
> 
> HM




Hm... that does make it tempting.  I'll be asking about this on Enworlds 3 edition rules area for advice.

Though, one thing I fully intend on taking(if I can convince you to allow it) is a prestige class called Abjurant Champion.  The main reason being, it would allow Aidan to use magic as his armor very effectively(which I would flavor as his draconic aspect manifesting), as well as not losing BAB or spell levels in the process.

I can PM you the stuff in a bit once I've more solidified my current plan.


----------



## HolyMan

NP Theroc, hey did you notice like I did how everyone was posting away until Aidan piped up about what he saw and then everyone grew very quiet. I can almost see the party stop dead still on the path as the slowly look around to see what he is talking about.

@everyone else: sorry didn't mean to scare you just your characters 

HM


----------



## ghostcat

Well actually I was just about to post on Thursday evening when my ADSL went down and I was thrown off the net. 

I have only just been reconnected.


----------



## HolyMan

That's the new connection you got after moving ghostcat??

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

You guys need a write up on Abjurant Champion or something?


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> You guys need a write up on Abjurant Champion or something?




I do and thanks in advance.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> That's the new connection you got after moving ghostcat??
> 
> HM




That's the one. Although I do appear to have been upgraded from 6Mb/s to 10Mb/s in the process, whether I wanted to or not.


----------



## Myth and Legend

[sblock=ABJURANT CHAMPION]Directly from Complete Mage.

_"The true warrior disdains no weapon, no tool, that might win h im the day on the field of battle. And what is magic but another weapon hanging at your side, ready to be drawn and wielded when the need arises?"_

—Caspian LaMont, Guard-Captain of the Knights Ascendant

While the eldritch knight (DMG 187) strives to balance his m ystical and martial prowess, and the spellsword (_Complete Warrior_) uses weapons to channel his spells, the abjurant champion focuses his arcane abilities both to augment his personal defense and to hinder enemy spellcasters. Perfectly suited for martial stalwarts who dabble in magic, this class offers characters the ability to improve their combat skills in ways neither soldiers nor spellcasters can.

*BECOMING AN ABJURANT CHAMPION
*
Fighter/wizard and paladin/sorcerer are both common paths taken to become an abjurant champion, but given the requirements, any martial-oriented character can qualify by taking a single level of an arcane spellcasting class, from bard to wu jen. Single-classed hexblades _(Complete Warrior)_ or duskblades _(Player's Handbook II)_ can qualify but usually lack the abjuration spells that make this combination function best.

*ENTRY REQUIREMENTS*

*Base Attack Bonus:* +5.
*Feat:* Combat Casting.
*Spellcasting:* Must be able to cast 1st-level arcane spells, including at least one abjuration spell.
*Special:* Must be proficient with at least one martial weapon.

*CLASS FEATURES*

As an abjurant champion, your abilities are focused on melding arcane defenses and martial offense into a deadly alloy, a fierce combination of techniques that allow you to overpower or outlast your foes. You are also skilled in utilizing your abilities separately, casting spells or wielding weapons as other classes do.

*Spellcasting:* At each level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming an abjurant champion, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.

*Abjurant Armor (Su):* Any time you cast an abjuration spell that grants you an armor bonus or shield bonus to AC, you can increase the value of the bonus by your abjurant champion class level. Abjurant champions rely on mage armor, shield, and similar spells instead of actual armor.

*Extended Abjuration (Su):* You depend on your abjuration spells to protect you in combat. Double the duration of abjuration spells you cast, as if you had applied the Extend Spell feat to them (but without any change in level or casting time).

*Swift Abjuration (Su):* Beginning at 2nd level, you can cast abjuration spells as a swift action, as if you had applied the Quicken Spell feat to them (but without any change in level). The maximum level of spell you can quicken in this way is equal to 1/2 your class level (rounded up). 

*Arcane Boost (Su):* Beginning at 4th level, you gain the ability to burn arcane energy to empower your martial abilities. As a swift action, you can spend one of your uncast spells or spell slots to grant yourself one of the following insight bonuses for 1 round.

• Bonus on attack rolls equal to the spell's level. 
• Bonus on weapon damage rolls equal to twice the spell's level. 
• Bonus to AC equal to the spell's level. 
• Bonus on saving throws equal to the spell's level. 
• Resistance to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic equal to 5 x the spell's level.

*Martial Arcanist (Ex):* At 5th level, you master the art of combining your militant and mystical training. From this point on, your caster level in a chosen arcane spellcasting class is equal to your base attack bonus (unless it would otherwise be higher). For example, a 7th-level fighter/1st-level wizard/5th-level abjurant champion has a base attack bonus of +12 (and thus a caster level of 12th). You can apply this benefit to only one arcane class to which you have added spellcasting levels by your advancement as an abjurant champion.
*
TABLE 3 - 1 : THE ABJURANT CHAMPION 

HIT DIE : *D10*

Class Skills* (2 + Int modifier per level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Ride, Spellcraft, Swim.*

Level 1:* BAB +1, Fort +0, Ref+0, Will +2, Abjurant armor, extended abjuration, +1 caster level.*
Level 2:* BAB +2, Fort +0, Ref+0, Will +3, Swift abjuration, +1 caster level.
*Level 3:* BAB +3, Fort +1, Ref+1, Will +3, +1 caster level.
*Level 4:* BAB +4, Fort +1, Ref+1, Will +4, Arcane boost, +1 caster level.
*Level 5:* BAB +5, Fort +1, Ref+1, Will +4, Martial arcanist, +1 caster level.[/sblock]


----------



## Sphyh

Hey HM when we get a chance can we start hammering out details on the soldier prestige class i found. if we wanna start tweaking it or anything. just wanna make sure i start moving in the right direction when i level up.

one more thing. ill be in canada for the winter olympics for some mission work from the 12-20th... ill have internet access but i might not get to post as often or as in depth.


----------



## HolyMan

@ ML- Thanks for the right up I'll be able to give it the once over now that I am off the next two days. 

@ Sphyh- I still have the class linked in a PM will do that as well. And have fun at the olympics, and stay warm. We will all be fighting a hydra so you won't miss much. 

@ everyone else: remember you get xp for surviving not killing monsters. and a 5 headed hydra is only EL4 I think the gnoll encounter was EL6 or better not sure due to the adept class.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @ everyone else: remember you get xp for surviving not killing monsters. and a 5 headed hydra is only EL4 I think the gnoll encounter was EL6 or better not sure due to the adept class.
> 
> HM




Just being helpful here... Generally, NPC classes are level-1=CR for anything without racial HD. On anything with HD, the CR could be counted the same, if it's not doing too much for their own abilities. If it does give a good boost (and at low levels especially), +1 CR per level is more likely.

And as to the hydra being less tough than the gnolls... I have to disagree. The gnolls were numerous but weak. This hydra has 5 attacks, reach, a lot of HP and fast healing, plus a few of us are still recovering from poison. This thing will likely destroy anyone who stays and fights. The benefit is that we are faster, so running is a very good idea. Hence Jareth taking off.


----------



## Theroc

Unless we could all stab it to death in 1 round, I think it'd quickly overtake us due to fast healing and limited attack options at this level.  Which is why running is an awesome idea.


----------



## HolyMan

I think everyone posted that they are running and I will be posting a chase scene before bed.... but wait what is this? "the hill starts to slope down and to bend towards the creekbed. Ahead you see an arched stone bridge that crosses the creek but by it's height you are sure it will not keep you out of the gaining hydra's reach." 

Still working on it but you get the ideal there is the forest. 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Bad HM! You want us all to get eaten don't you  Humph, well if you want to meta game, a Banshee is CR17 in the MM2. Guess who was feeling benevolent?  Anyway, I feel like providing a picture of an Epic Hydra. And so here it is.


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Bad HM! You want us all to get eaten don't you  Humph, well if you want to meta game, a Banshee is CR17 in the MM2. Guess who was feeling benevolent?  Anyway, I feel like providing a picture of an Epic Hydra. And so here it is.




Progenitus; Alara Block of Magic: The Gathering.  Ridiculous card.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Oh really, i didn't know it was from MTG. Never played it, is it any good? Can i play the PC game instead of the real deal?


----------



## HolyMan

Haven't played MTG since '04 so that must be a new card, love the art work maybe if this hydra gets away he will 'grow up'.

CR17???? - glad we were just in roleplaying mode in VotD or someone could have got hurt 

actually you did more damage to Kye by proving to him he isn't godlike but still a man  there will be no living with him now.

HM


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Oh really, i didn't know it was from MTG. Never played it, is it any good? Can i play the PC game instead of the real deal?




You can play magic: the gathering online via some software or something of Wizards.  I looked into it enough to decide I couldn't afford such a thing when I prefer the real cards.  See, the online thing, you have to pay real money for virtual cards.  If at any point you decide you want the physical copies of the cards, Wizards can mail them to you, but at that point they are removed from your online roster.

And yes, Holyman, Progenitus is only a year or two old at this point.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Would anyone have any problems with luring the Hydra into the woods and lighting the forest on fire?

I think that might work, At least it might stall the damned thing for a bit


----------



## Sphyh

haha i agree frozen. im sure the hydra will have a hard time moving about in the woods compared to us. but who wants to rabbit that it chases into the trap?


----------



## Frozen Messiah

We could make fakes, the Hydra attacked a rock in a pound, I'm pretty sure it would bite.

I think Claude would go for it. We might be able to get Aiden on side by convincing him that it would save Lora. Trinham is pretty slow right now we might just be able to out run him


----------



## Theroc

Onisemus tends to obey orders well...


----------



## Myth and Legend

Guys have any of you actually tried to light a fire outside? In a fresh forest everything is green and damp. There are dry twigs on the ground, sure, but we are not at a picnic either, you know, there's a Hydra chasing us and all that.

There is a really nice second level spell in the Spell Compendium (that Jemal banned after i requested it in his game) called Combust. That thing could light a fresh, sappy tree trunk on fire. But i forgot to take it! hm... I'll be sure to do so next time.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

I have a solution, between you and Trinham you can distract the thing with magic, we only need enough time to gather a pile of wood together. At that point Jareth will use burning hands to light it up, since it's magical fire the pile of wood will light. If things are done properly, and if any one has any oil to add on to it just to speed things up feel free, it should start a quick blaze enough and large enough to at least get the thing off of our tails long enough fo us to get away.

It's a crazy plan but if it works it could just save our bacon and reserve a lot of our resources


----------



## Dragonwriter

Hmm.... But even if we get a nice big bonfire, it's not likely to spread very far. And the hydra might be able to work out "Hey, no fire there! Go there instead!"

And that fast healing 15 basically negates any damage we could do to it, so any kind of fight isn't really an option.

In my opinion, running is the best option right now... Maybe we can lead it away from the river, double back and get across. 
All of us at least match its speed, so at the very least, we can stay ahead of it on land. I think only Onesimus wears medium/heavy armor, though I'm not sure about that. But I think everyone else wears light or no armor, so we should be fine with the pace.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

This is true, I just like the idea of seeing this thing thrasing in an inferno.

On the note of movement I do believe Trinham is moving slower than all of us, but I don't exactly know if that is true


----------



## Dragonwriter

Thankfully, not according to the rules. Dexterity has no effect on your land speed, only your quickness. Speed is a set thing, done by race, and can only be affected by magical powers or class abilities after that. DEX deals with a bunch of other things, but not that.

...Otherwise it would be more like "I don't have to outrun the beastie. I just have to outrun you!" much more often.


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## HolyMan

There is no rule for lose dex/ lose speed but I was thinking you wouldn't be as graceful and stumbling alot might slow you down. But since Claude was helping him along I guess that could make the difference, and keep them both at the same speed no problem.

Later I may make a rule about that it seems to me it would only need to be if you were in the extreme negs (like Trinham is) but losing 5' per round would be possible.

Spider's Path updated take note to the severed and burnt head. 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

we have to run.... we could maybe do this if we all had full health and the proper spells prepared. yea i have medium armor on so im moving at 20 but i can still get the x4 for a full round run action. i think we should have our fastest guy (anybody above 30 or we have a spell that could help?) get the hydras attention and lore it away from us and get the rest of the party, including my slow self and the handicapped trinham across that bridge and we dont stop runnin till we get to the manor lol. 

hey we always could have the cat distract the beastie


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Why not try an illusion to distracte instead of a companion because i think that the hydra is dumb enough to fall for it. It's up to the spell caster though, and I think we could do some damage to it. We could at leats take on head out of the picture with a Sunder attempt by Oneisimus + Burning Hands + all of us taking attacks of opprotunity= decent chance of success, but running is still a better opprotunity.


----------



## Dragonwriter

If anyone else has illusion spells, then by all means, go for it.

But even if we had full health, no poison, etc, I don't think we could handle it. In order for us to actually close with it, we'd have to get within its reach (10 ft.), soak the AoOs (2 AoOs, 4 attacks each, unless HM goes lenient) and then keep it occupied. Each Sunder attempt provokes another AoO. And it would quickly heal any damage we could inflict on it otherwise... Hence my position of "RUN!"

Of course, this is just my opinion from looking at mechanics. If someone else has a good plan for dealing with it, go ahead and share. Until then, Jareth will be focusing on survival and escape.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Dragonwriter said:


> If anyone else has illusion spells, then by all means, go for it.
> 
> But even if we had full health, no poison, etc, I don't think we could handle it. In order for us to actually close with it, we'd have to get within its reach (10 ft.), soak the AoOs (2 AoOs, 4 attacks each, unless HM goes lenient) and then keep it occupied. Each Sunder attempt provokes another AoO. And it would quickly heal any damage we could inflict on it otherwise... Hence my position of "RUN!"
> 
> Of course, this is just my opinion from looking at mechanics. If someone else has a good plan for dealing with it, go ahead and share. Until then, Jareth will be focusing on survival and escape.




I had neglected AoO...yes, we definitly have no chance against it. So I will get the running shoes and you can get those nifty head bands, if you catch my drift.


----------



## HolyMan

Hydra = INT 2 so I will be palying it as such.

 Weird thing is it has 4 heads doesn't that equal four brains how do they get so dumb??

HM


----------



## ghostcat

Both Lora and Trinham have _Ghost Sound_. So we could try hiding and leading it away with illusionary noises.

The only trouble is that as a party we are not exactly quite, so as soon as we start running it will hear us. Still its so stupid it may dither for a round or two before starting after us.


----------



## Sphyh

good lets ghostsound it up and start runnin! idk what sound to make  but idc as long as it works


----------



## Myth and Legend

Lora didn't prepare ghost sound last night, she got dancing lights instead. Which IMO should do the trick with it's longer duration


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Hydra = INT 2 so I will be palying it as such.
> 
> Weird thing is it has 4 heads doesn't that equal four brains how do they get so dumb??
> 
> HM




My guess? It's because all the brains are focused on "FOOD!"


----------



## Sphyh

exactly! which why if this fails i vote we have  the thing chase mogins around while we escape and then the cat will, ideally , escape into the underbrush and catch up to us ltr


----------



## Theroc

Sphyh said:


> exactly! which why if this fails i vote we have  the thing chase mogins around while we escape and then the cat will, ideally , escape into the underbrush and catch up to us ltr




I would think the Hydra would be intelligent enough to realize that a cat wasn't a sufficient foodsource, then again, what sort of intelligence is an int of 2, anyway?


----------



## Myth and Legend

Enough to one-shot with a Ray of Stupidity spell  Well that spell is broken.. Imagine a maximized, empowered spell like that coming from a caster that had just used a quickened true strike - BAM! You are dead. No save.


----------



## Sphyh

hey guys. im vancouver at the winter olympics doin mission work. just NPC me for the week and ill back on around the 20th. thanks and good luck!


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience  Feb1st- Feb15th*



		Code:
	

Myth and Legend              445
Sphyh                        215
ghostcat                     310
Theroc                       260
Dragonwriter                 260
Frozen Messiah               380

 
*Congrats - ghostcat and Theroc for hitting Level 3
and to Sphyh for reaching 2nd Level*

[sblock=DW]
Tharivol's race?? Remember this is a high human enviroment but did we say he was a half-elf?? [/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Sphyh hope you are having a great time, you know you could have held the Winter Games here I think we have gotten more snow than Vancover. 

Will be looking up and finalizing that prestige class first thing tommorrow (first on the list anyway) So you know what direction to build towards it, as you level up.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

[sblock=HM]
Yep, he was half-elf. Also part of the justification that my duskblade's fighting style is so different from the standard.
[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

Ok checking the soilder prestige class again and I believe it is good to go, it will fit nicely in Off to War. And we can go back and remeber the day Onesimus signed up to kind of get that requestite out of the way. 

And speaking of Prestige classes-- Theroc your plan on Dragon Disiple still in the works?? I have been looking up things to help people along and for you I was thinking of someone teaching you about magic, to get you that Knowledge(arcana) 8 Ranks. What I need to know is progression (i.e. should I start now or do I have some time), but then again hanging around Lora, Trinham, and Jareth could justify at least 1 or 2 ranks in that skill for now.   Of course it is your character your call maybe he was really, really paying attention to all their talk of spells and such, or watching as Lora studied. (etc.)

Speaking Draconic now if you put a skill point into it instead of someone teaching you we could say it starts coming out of you in fits or someone says something in Draconic and you understand but don't know how or why.(A page out of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time [RIP])

Cast arcane spells unprepared guess you will just have to take a class lvl in something is that what Abjure Champ is for??

Ok I am off to bed big day of posting tommorrow as I am off and will be spending the day at the local coffee shop.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Ok checking the soilder prestige class again and I believe it is good to go, it will fit nicely in Off to War. And we can go back and remeber the day Onesimus signed up to kind of get that requestite out of the way.
> 
> And speaking of Prestige classes-- Theroc your plan on Dragon Disiple still in the works?? I have been looking up things to help people along and for you I was thinking of someone teaching you about magic, to get you that Knowledge(arcana) 8 Ranks. What I need to know is progression (i.e. should I start now or do I have some time), but then again hanging around Lora, Trinham, and Jareth could justify at least 1 or 2 ranks in that skill for now.   Of course it is your character your call maybe he was really, really paying attention to all their talk of spells and such, or watching as Lora studied. (etc.)
> 
> Speaking Draconic now if you put a skill point into it instead of someone teaching you we could say it starts coming out of you in fits or someone says something in Draconic and you understand but don't know how or why.(A page out of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time [RIP])
> 
> Cast arcane spells unprepared guess you will just have to take a class lvl in something is that what Abjure Champ is for??
> 
> Ok I am off to bed big day of posting tommorrow as I am off and will be spending the day at the local coffee shop.




I was planning on spells and the like coming naturally to him without his understanding of them initially.

I haven't planned out the whole build, but my current plan is taking a level in Sorcerer NOW... as for Kn: Arcana, I was planning on having Aidan ask Lora: "Why can I do this?" after he ends up casting a few times.   Sorcerer immediately qualifies a character for Spontaneous Arcane Casting.


Abjurant Champion was originally picked for mostly mechanical purposes as 'filler' that is very helpful and can easily fluffed to fit Aidan.  It's a full progressions PrC that would progress Aidan's BAB and casting so it wouldn't bog down either of his vital scores, as well as granting bonuses to some defensive spells(which I'd RP as his skin abruptly thickening or other dragon-like features)  Also; Kn: Arcana is a class skill for an Abjurant Champion, so Aidan would be able to progress that without spending crossclass levels on it.

As for Wheel of Time... Aidan was actually partially inspired in my mind by Rand Al'Thor, from the Wheel of time.  >.>  Simple farmboy... who gets magic powers... yeah.  Not a particularly new thing, but one of my favorite archetypes, as it enables me to be ignorant of a setting and remain in character!  

One thing I was wondering, HM.  Could I sacrifice my familiar to instead maintain parts of Aidan's Monk abilities or something?  Familiars make me paranoid about getting pwned and losing levels because something nailed my 'weak link'.  Bit rambly as it's late.  I have both strong roleplaying tendencies and powergaming tendencies... so I am always trying to strike a balance.  

I'm also curious what advice Myth might have for me with constructing Aidan mechanically.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Theroc tell me:

What is your ideal end-game situation? What do you want to emphasize on?

- a maximum BAB with less emphasis on spells?
- maximum caster lvl with less emphasis on BAB?
- somewhere in between (versatility) with lots of spells per day but not that many high-leveled spells?

Also, how important are saves, armor and HD?

Describe your ideal lvl 20 situation and i'll see what i can conjure


----------



## Theroc

Well, part of my plan was focusing my spell list on defensive type spells(probably taking some feats to flavor dragon-like, such as Draconic Breath from Complete Arcane[I'd be consulting HM on it before attempting to take it, obviously) so that the spells themselves can be converted into a breath weapon, as well as perhaps a reserve feat.

As for the end game, I was looking more for magic to amplify Aidan's natural abilities without sacrificing TOO much spellcasting.  The little plan I have in mind would leave Aidan with the equivalent of 18 sorcerer levels in casting.  I haven't gotten around to poking at how much BAB I'd have, though.

So, I guess the first thing on your list, possibly leaning a bit towards the third.  I don't want Aidan focusing primarily on magic, but I do want it to be somewhat important to him in some respect.

Importance of Saves/Armor/HD?
Well, DD has d12's for HD, and with HM's houserule it seems incredibly well suited to most of my plan for Aidan's progress... greatly boosting his staying power in a fight.  Saves... I don't want sleeped anymore... but by level 20, Aidan should be immune to sleep as a half-dragon anyway.  Armor -  I'd rather avoid getting hit too much, but I needn't be over the top.  Aidan is still primarily a 'monk' in my basic desire for him.

Edit:
My current class progression plan:
Monk 2/Sorcerer(whatevever gets me to 5 BAB)/Abjurant Champion 5/DD 10

Though, I just realized this plan has a fatal flaw: I won't get to BAB +5 with 3 sorcerer levels, which ruins that plan, so I will definitely need a bit of help, unless I can find a way to increase my BAB outside level progression(which isn't possible RAW)


----------



## Myth and Legend

One level of Dragonslayer grants you caster progression+bab+fear immunity, this is what i can think off the top of my head. 18 caster levels is hardly "not focusing on magic" though - you will get 9th level spells! I expect your BAB to suffer somewhat, i'll have to do the math though. D12 is great, and you will need to rely on spells for AC since you don't have any means to ignore ASF. But with spells like Greater Luminous Armor your Abjurant Champion class can really shine.


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> One level of Dragonslayer grants you caster progression+bab+fear immunity, this is what i can think off the top of my head. 18 caster levels is hardly "not focusing on magic" though - you will get 9th level spells! I expect your BAB to suffer somewhat, i'll have to do the math though. D12 is great, and you will need to rely on spells for AC since you don't have any means to ignore ASF. But with spells like Greater Luminous Armor your Abjurant Champion class can really shine.




I'm not entirely sure dragonslayer would be thematically appropriate for someone who is slowly becoming a half-Dragon.  >.>  Also, my monk stuff grants Cha to AC... so... by pumping my CHA for DC's and the like, I'm also increasing my AC.

And Abjurant champion was definite meant to shore up Aidan's inability to wear armor... since he's supposed to be able to mix it up in melee.  But, I definitely need to get Aidan's BAB up... since I need +5 for AB, and I have about 3 levels to get from 2 BAB to five.  I'm thinking I may need to sacrifice another level of spellcasting for a full BAB class.


----------



## HolyMan

I don't quite follow Why do you need a BAB of +5??

Dragon Disiple doesn't have a BAB requirement.

HM

EDIT: have you seen all you get for taking one more lvl in monk?? +1 BAB, Flurry becomes +0/+0, +10' movement, and more importantly +2 save vs enchanments(i.e. Sleep)


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I don't quite follow Why do you need a BAB of +5??
> 
> Dragon Disiple doesn't have a BAB requirement.
> 
> HM
> 
> EDIT: have you seen all you get for taking one more lvl in monk?? +1 BAB, Flurry becomes +0/+0, +10' movement, and more importantly +2 save vs enchanments(i.e. Sleep)




Holyman, Abjurant Champion has a BAB requirement.  It's a requirement of +5 BAB.  And yeah, I am thinking I might go with a third level now, but I'm not sure.  I wanted to start getting him some casting, but more monk stuff might help too, particularly the BAB/Flurry.


----------



## HolyMan

So your minimum lvl for DD is 6th because you need Know(arcana) 8 ranks, and AC only has 5 lvls (hope I am remembering that right).

You go Monk4/Sorcerer1/Dragon D.3/Abjure Champ5/Dragon D.7 

Not much faster as monk lvls 3 and 4 each give you a +1 BAB unless you can find a caster class that grants both a +1 BAB and Spell progression at first lvl (which I would most likely veto) but your build I was looking for how you wanted to explain away the getting knw(arcana) and speak draconic into your story.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> So your minimum lvl for DD is 6th because you need Know(arcana) 8 ranks, and AC only has 5 lvls (hope I am remembering that right).
> 
> You go Monk4/Sorcerer1/Dragon D.3/Abjure Champ5/Dragon D.7
> 
> Not much faster as monk lvls 3 and 4 each give you a +1 BAB unless you can find a caster class that grants both a +1 BAB and Spell progression at first lvl (which I would most likely veto) but your build I was looking for how you wanted to explain away the getting knw(arcana) and speak draconic into your story.




Hm... that could work.  However, my houseruled class has Arcana as a crossclass skill.  So, unless I find something to make it a class skill again, I won't have 8 ranks of Knw(Arcana) until later.


----------



## Theroc

Theroc said:
			
		

> One thing I was wondering, HM. Could I sacrifice my familiar to instead maintain parts of Aidan's Monk abilities or something? Familiars make me paranoid about getting pwned and losing levels because something nailed my 'weak link'. Bit rambly as it's late. I have both strong roleplaying tendencies and powergaming tendencies... so I am always trying to strike a balance.




Wasn't sure if you caught this question, HM.  I'm not fond of familiars, lol.  Too big a risk for me... for little reward AFAIK.


----------



## HolyMan

Nay that is to easy to explain away. Take it now as a cross class skill and get 3 ranks, just say you have been watching Lora and the others. Listening to them talk of spells and such in some down time here or there.

And take 5 ranks when you hit Sorcerer level 1. Again for the past like weeks or months you have asked questions saw spells at work. Encounter magical monsters etc. 

And you may change your familiar out for a like feat: Alertness, Toughness, Great Fortitude, anything a familiar would have granted you. Subject to approval of course.

Good luck deciding I know this is a big deal so take your time you may level up whenever you wish.

HM

EDIT: Should have been a but in there- but you won't get experience points past your next level because you may not level up twice.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> And you may change your familiar out for a like feat: Alertness, Toughness, Great Fortitude, anything a familiar would have granted you. Subject to approval of course.





Don't familiar improve as their master gains levels?  Or is that only for sorcerer levels?


----------



## HolyMan

They improve on like Natural AC, Intelligence, and HD, but the main benefit you get from them stays the same.

The easiest way is to take a feat and lose the ability to summon a familiar now or at later levels.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Your dm is really excited!!*

For a few weeks now I have been sad, I have been working on Harkon Manor. As I couldn't decide if i should make it walled or open, should I make it dark and gloomy or a happy place. All these questions and I was looking for a good manor shot because I knew I wouldn't be able to describe everything and get it across and today I found my inspiration 

Castle Eilean Donan (i.e. Harkon Manor) you can google some images I think you all wil love it as much as me. One pic below.

Ok now I have alot to do to finally start this next part of the Off to War story, and in that is my next problem. FORMAT 

Original my ideal was to have Off to War be the main thread (politics, RPing, and character development) and the sub-quest to be the action (combat, skill challenges, and such) But the Harkon Manor part is both. And along with that there are muiltple levels and areas in the keep, a new handful of NPCs, and when the threads merge (i.e. Lord Bairan arrives) , but I am ranting I will solve them some how. 

Now this is where all of you come in I need say this weekend and my two days off to get ready. Until then as not to terribly slow down Spider's Path before it finally comes to a close  I would like you all to RP the walk towads Harkon but away from the two NPCs if possible. They will be leading you from a little way ahead, so you can talk amongst yourselves.

I am very excited to start this next part (that I had thought about since we started all those months ago. Just didn't plan.) Certain questions will be answered and new ones will come forth. 

Any questions I will be on everyday (as always) and we need advancement for those who leveled up so i will be around for that. 

I am excited it's 1am I need some sleep before work, Nite all.


HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Since we are all talking about builds and what not I believe that I will be going for the perstige class Purple Dragon Knights. The class is meant to be a group of knights and I wonder if the Knights of Harkon could be the Purple Dragon Knights of this world?


----------



## HolyMan

Hmmm... I remember a little about them, so give me time to work something out. I will put a "purple knight type group" in this world. So you can work on your build.

I'm on an extended break- (due back on at 5pm) so I will be around for at least a little bit.'


HM


----------



## Sphyh

ok so im back. vancouver was awesome! im slowly getting caught up on reading and such in the threads im in and ill work on that lvl up post soon. still kinda jet lagging and have lots to do now that im back home but ill hopefully have it done tomorrow.


----------



## HolyMan

Welcome Back Sphyh, Glad you had a blast in Vancover take your time like I said before I need a little time this weekend to get on track.

Saw you posted in the RG I will give your lvl up the once over and see if we can't get you a step closer to being a soilder.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HM

I have started working on Trinham's level up. As it is mostly magic related and Archimedes is with the army's main body, Trinham really needs access to either a library or a tutor. I know there is always Lora but somehow I can't see that working


----------



## HolyMan

That would make for great RP lol 

I had already figured on both a library and "scholar" being at Harkon, it is one of the things I am working on.

Right now I am on break, but do your lvl up based on spending a day learning and after we get it RPed then you can go and add the upgrades to Trinham. 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

ok character leveling is done. ill take the endurance feat at lvl 3 (because its a general feat and not a fighter specific feat) and ill continue to add ranks to intimidate and i think that will cover all m perquisites. I think it will end up being taking 4 levels in fighter and then going prestige. sound good?


----------



## HolyMan

Sure Sphyh, go to get that weapon specialization (I would) also don't forget to add +1 DB (Defensive Bonus) to your level up post.

DB is a houserule we decided to add. It is half your BAB and is added to your AC (both normal and touch) 

Hmmm.. not sure about flat-footed AC I will look that up sometime soon.

HM


----------



## Sphyh

yea ill get that at lvl 4 (which i believe is the prerequisite for it) and ill go back and add that AC bonus now  how do you want me to handle my AC bonus for my dodge feat. (just specify who i want it to apply to in my ooc chat?)


----------



## HolyMan

Sphyh said:


> yea ill get that at lvl 4 (which i believe is the prerequisite for it) and ill go back and add that AC bonus now  how do you want me to handle my AC bonus for my dodge feat. (just specify who i want it to apply to in my ooc chat?)




You can just put it into your action sblock, like this:

Standard action: Attack gnoll #1
Dodge bonus vs. gnoll #2 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok everyone I have started are next adventure!! 

But before you go to it please go  here  to review a new houserule. 

Ok once you are done you may notice NPCs are up in the RG mainly for descriptive purposes.

And in Playing the Game there is this little thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/272541-battle-harkon-manor.html

So see you all over there and be looking for the bonus XP for completeing Spider's Path come the 1st of the month.

HM


----------



## Sunking

Im intrested in joining 
but not having read this whole tread (its to long), I have a few quistions which I hope havent been asked before

1) I see the classes have gone a little out of PHB so would warlock be a option.

2) what does the group mostly need (sneaky, trapfinding, a cook, a healer...)  not nessesary im gonna make it just to hear if anything might inspire me and its always nice to fill a needt position

3) can i get a summery of the gods or religions as far as i read in this tread they were posted all over the place (maybe put em into a post in *The Five Kingdoms* tread)

still not totaly convinced I should join (it looks great but do I have the time, but in the end I don't think I can resist)


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hokay, first post in the new thread. I was itching to write that after i saw Vance's initial words  Fortunately this is not 11th century Europe and women that can cast spells and wield a weapon do exist. Oh and to remind you all to only notice Lora's non-verbal signs (flushing of the cheeks, gripping the handle etc.) and not read her mind. I think sometimes players can confuse a character's thoughts and their words, happened in The Gray Mist (another game, most of you are participating there). Whenever i write in _italics_ it's to show thoughts.

Also, HM great post, I always assumed that players can use some NPCs to fluff around and advance non-important stuff, like ordering ale etc.


----------



## Theroc

Sunking said:


> Im intrested in joining
> but not having read this whole tread (its to long), I have a few quistions which I hope havent been asked before
> 
> 1) I see the classes have gone a little out of PHB so would warlock be a option.
> 
> 2) what does the group mostly need (sneaky, trapfinding, a cook, a healer...)  not nessesary im gonna make it just to hear if anything might inspire me and its always nice to fill a needt position
> 
> 3) can i get a summery of the gods or religions as far as i read in this tread they were posted all over the place (maybe put em into a post in *The Five Kingdoms* tread)
> 
> still not totaly convinced I should join (it looks great but do I have the time, but in the end I don't think I can resist)




1. HM hates warlocks.  He might allow them though... as I almost had him talked into letting me use a Warlock instead of a Sorcerer to qualify for Dragon Disciple.  I decided to just try out the Sorcerer stuff though, as I've never played a caster.

2. We have no rogue to my knowledge(no trapfinding/stealth), and no Cleric(no healing save a Paladin's Lay on hands).

3.  Each character has their own religion/agnosticism thus far.  Aidan... has no defined religion.  He's a simple farmboy.


----------



## Theroc

Ghostcat said:
			
		

> A few more nobles like these two and a 15th level Trinham will be leading a revolution instead of fighting the Treylor




Well, Aidan will probably be recognized as a noble by then, by virtue of his bloodline manifesting(not the D&D bloodline mechanic as interesting as that may have been, but his Sorcerer+Dragon Disciple levels).  As my concept behind his change was his distant ties to nobility.  

So, mayhap Trinham attempts to rally a rebellion around Aidan as the head?  That'd be funny.  "But I'm jus' a farmboy!"


----------



## HolyMan

Sunking said:


> Im intrested in joining
> but not having read this whole tread (its to long), I have a few quistions which I hope havent been asked before
> 
> 1) I see the classes have gone a little out of PHB so would warlock be a option.
> 
> 2) what does the group mostly need (sneaky, trapfinding, a cook, a healer...) not nessesary im gonna make it just to hear if anything might inspire me and its always nice to fill a needt position
> 
> 3) can i get a summery of the gods or religions as far as i read in this tread they were posted all over the place (maybe put em into a post in *The Five Kingdoms* tread)
> 
> still not totaly convinced I should join (it looks great but do I have the time, but in the end I don't think I can resist)




Welcome Aboard Sunking,

1) Warlocks .. yeah Theroc has it right although I would say loathe compared to hate, LOL  I believe them to unbalanced but please make any arguement you wish I will listen and debate with you if you really want to play one.

2) Party comp is as follows:

one heavily armed and armored warrior
one lightly armed and armored warrior
one holy warrior from an unholy land
one happy go lucky warrior-mage
one disgruntled warrior-mage
and one bossy warrior-mage

But all in all the party does get the job done  You may make anything you wish but Theroc is right again key roles in the scout/stealth and healing areas are missing.

3)There is no pantheon for The Five Kingdoms I am adding dieties as the are encountered in the story and people make religion checks. So you may play a cleric if you wish of any type of deity and we will just add him in. 

Character creation rules can be found here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-house-rules/258313-off-war-houserules.html

And if you have any questions please let me know.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

This is a character development post to justify Trinham's feats, skills and spell selections when levelling up. The thing is, I am not sure of the best place to put it.

[sblock]At last Trinham has a chance to relax without being interrupted. As he does, he realises that he is capable of learning another spell. Fortunately, Archimedes had taught him how to recognise this rather than him start to loose control again. 

A few moments thought on which spell to learn brings him to the realisation that his career is at a crossroads. He can either become a fighter with some spell casting ability or become a magician who can fight. Reviewing the last few days in his mind, Trinham shivered as he remembered the desperation of being totally paralysed in a camp under attack. he envisage this being a regular occurrence if he becomes a fighter and so starts down the magician's path.[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

Either you will be staying the night at the wayhouse (in the villiage) or in the manor. So I believe that when I call it a day and Trinham gets some time to himself what you wrote will work great.

Let me know when you have your lvl 3 sblock in the RG, thanks

HM


----------



## ghostcat

Theroc said:


> Well, Aidan will probably be recognized as a noble by then, by virtue of his bloodline manifesting(not the D&D bloodline mechanic as interesting as that may have been, but his Sorcerer+Dragon Disciple levels).  As my concept behind his change was his distant ties to nobility.
> 
> So, mayhap Trinham attempts to rally a rebellion around Aidan as the head?  That'd be funny.  "But I'm jus' a farmboy!"




Well Trinham is a chaotic. So he would not overthrow one ruling elite just to replace it with another. Its more likely to be some form of Anarchism.


----------



## Theroc

ghostcat said:


> Well Trinham is a chaotic.



So is Aidan.  Chaotic Good.  All that means is he as a ruler would definitely not have an ironfist.  I was pointing out that Aidan would be more akin to Bairan(as we have come to understand) than Dellex.



			
				Ghostcat said:
			
		

> So he would not overthrow one ruling elite just to replace it with another. Its more likely to be some form of Anarchism.




Possibly, but anarchy cannot sustain itself.  The anarchy Trinham would cause would simply win the war for the Treylor and all Trinham sought would be for naught.


----------



## Myth and Legend

This is a big controversy, maybe we should just stick to DnD to avoid massive arguments  I think Chaotic does not necessarily mean Anarchist. I view Chaotic people as those that would value their personal beliefs and judgment above rules, laws and traditions. They are rebels, discoverers, artists even. They can go against the conventional, the norm, the commonly accepted, when they see a better road. Frequently it is their ability to see that better road is that which makes them who they are.

That does not mean they cannot live in an organized society, follow rules or actually be on top of an organization. It means that they can question the system with much greater ease than other, more conventional people. I've given this some thought as Lora is indeed Chaotic, and i was wandering where to draw the line as far as orders, loyalty and chain of command were concerned. I decided that she can be loyal to the group and her entrusted task, but deep down she is doing it because she does not want to disgrace herself and betray Martoumum's and the other's trust, not because she cares about the laws in the army.

And IRL i would label myself as Chaotic I suppose, which is apparent when one follows my characters in ENworld. A lot can be learned about the poster if one bothers analyzing his characters and their actions. Theroc, for example, has somewhat of a Hero complex - a defender, a warrior, with iron principles and beliefs, those can describe all the characters i have seen him run


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> This is a big controversy, maybe we should just stick to DnD to avoid massive arguments  I think Chaotic does not necessarily mean Anarchist. I view Chaotic people as those that would value their personal beliefs and judgment above rules, laws and traditions. They are rebels, discoverers, artists even. They can go against the conventional, the norm, the commonly accepted, when they see a better road. Frequently it is their ability to see that better road is that which makes them who they are.
> 
> That does not mean they cannot live in an organized society, follow rules or actually be on top of an organization. It means that they can question the system with much greater ease than other, more conventional people. I've given this some thought as Lora is indeed Chaotic, and i was wandering where to draw the line as far as orders, loyalty and chain of command were concerned. I decided that she can be loyal to the group and her entrusted task, but deep down she is doing it because she does not want to disgrace herself and betray Martoumum's and the other's trust, not because she cares about the laws in the army.
> 
> And IRL i would label myself as Chaotic I suppose, which is apparent when one follows my characters in ENworld. A lot can be learned about the poster if one bothers analyzing his characters and their actions. Theroc, for example, has somewhat of a Hero complex - a defender, a warrior, with iron principles and beliefs, those can describe all the characters i have seen him run




Most games where I played characters differing from that paradigm died.  I was a self-serving assassin in one, a grumbling feral dwarf-warrior in another... heck, in one game I'm playing a Lolth-worshipping Cleric/Warlock.

But for the most part, I prefer playing characters similar to what M&L describes.  I wasn't attempting to get into the realworld politics, mind, just how I percieve such a thing happening in a D&D world.  

And I am 'Chaotic' IRL.  I question tradition if it makes no sense to me.


----------



## Sunking

well if the warlock have already been discused I see no reason to bring it up agein 

off the top of my head are these 4 concepts
1) A third born nobel son, trained in the best schools of war to bring honor to the famely throu service in the army (Marshal from minitures handbook)

2) A girl chased out of her birth town on acukations of being a witch, who must find herself and lern to control her powers (Druid)

3) a orphant selftaught thief who was taken in by a old hunter, when his adoptive father was found killed the people all blaimed the young trouble maker so he joins the army to get away from his rep. (rogue)

4) a novice who have resived a omen and interpetet it as a sign of her destiny lies with the army (cleric)

marshal is favorite right now if needet i can send the class to you HM, reason I asked for gods is It would be more fun if I could find a god the players already had heard about (which match rest of concept). 

what do people think and which sounds like they would fit nicely


----------



## HolyMan

I like them all Sunking, great brainstorming and just about anyone of them would be a help to the party.

Which reminds me your character will be starting in the army, which will put you in the Off to War thread to start. I kind of want to do a ... and meanwhile back in camp sort of posting then I will fast track you to Harkon Manor to be a messenger/updater for the party.

So I have no fav, please pick the character and class you like or the others think will help.

HM


----------



## Theroc

Marshal: I can definitely see some RP potential of a rivalry between the Marshal and Lora if he attempts to take command without some form of notice from Martomum and the like.  That's not necessarily bad.

Druid: I can see possible tension of a different sort there, depending on how the character would interact with Aidan and Lora.  Or none at all.  Depends there.

Rogue:  Haha, either Aidan would get along keen with him, or dislike him as he's a sneaky thief(depending who Aidan sees him stealing from.  )

Cleric:  Aidan would immediately begin asking the cleric about whether he could treat Aidan's father's illnesses, listing off any symptoms he could think of.

Just my little RP analysis.  For party mechanics:
We lack any healing or sneaking and trapfinding.  Those seem most vital, which seems to leave the Marshal out, but as your preference, you may not want to worry with it.  We have a couple healing potions if we're really in a fix.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Marshal: It seems a bit underpowered when compared to base classes like Druid or Cleric (you know, Druids, Clerics and arcane casters are broken even without PRCs) However, it really fits the campaign.

Lora.. Well it's not all about her, so don't take her in to account when you make your char 

Druid/Cleric: One gets Wildshaping, the othe gets slightly better end-game spells. Both are strong and needed. Spontaneous healing will be really useful in the thick of it however.

Rogue: If you go the sneaky and assassinating type, putting a blade in Dellex's kidneys or even one of the enemy's generals will prove invaluable. I don't think HM will throw lots of traps our way, but one never knows.

Oh, and welcome!


----------



## ghostcat

HM. Don't worry about Trinham starting a revolution. He is basically lazy and organising a revolution sound too much like work.


----------



## HolyMan

Doesn't like work huh?? That i will remember, LOL 

Wanted to ask you what was with the path of the warrior or the wizard is there something I'm missing in the Battle Sorcerer class? Or is that like fluff?

HM


----------



## HolyMan

INFO for the game...

Let's see there is 15gp in the pouch, which is about 10% the spending cap at the manor.

How many unidentified scrolls are there still, can't seem to find my notes. But I think it is one.

@ ghostcat: Vance is not the baron just wondering if you knew that I like the way Trinham thinks he is, just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page. List of NPCs and a link to descriptions in first post of adventure.  

Great Post Sphyh!! I want to see Lora play nice also, and read what's shes thinking while she does. 

And just waiting on FM to advance along, I think. If not I will defiently post something tommorrow night before doing XP.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hmm everyone wants to see Lora play nice but if eventually she does turn nice won't you guys miss her nasty temper?  Plus, these things don't get fixed overnight, and she is slow to give trust.

Read: more character development is needed


----------



## HolyMan

And is excatly why I am putting you in the postions I am. Lora will learn some new things and we will all get to grow with her. Not that I won't have her met a few men here and there that are not as nice as the PCs or Vance. Hmmm.. where did I leave Lora's suitor LOL 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Yes Vance is nice, if this was Abrielle, another character i was running, she would have jumped him on sight - a polite, heroic, handsome noble. Too bad Lora is more proficient with her glaive than with her eyelashes 

I was wandering actually, how many men in a medieval setting would be the rapist type, and how many would be the nice type like Vance and Aidan. I'm sort of thinking 7 to 3 would be accurate for a big cirty, army or some such, and 1 or 2 to 8 when we are talking a small community (like a village) or noble class vs noble class. Nobles vs commoners, well it's entirely up to the lord's whim.


----------



## HolyMan

Well I have been getting a jump on XP posts for posting tommorrow night and DW's posts about a murdered father and missing family had me saying what???

I had to go back and re-read your history and say to myself- oh yeah I remember now. 

Just a little fyi DW that was your best post (for me) to date. It is what I am looking for help from you to get my creative juices rolling. Now I know they should have rolled before- (probably did LOL) but reminders are the best way and make the best posts. Why do you think ML and Theroc get great XP (Well ML does post like 2-1 against everyone but that aside)

Keeping in character or to your background or adding something new (like ghostcat making Trinham a little paranoid after "the things he has seen"),as you develop your character, Aidan's self doubt (can't wait till he gets a crit on something LOL)

And completing quest I am sitting on a nice +400XP (+350XP to Sphyh, sorry you didn't start the adventure, but were close) for finishing Spider's Path.

Adding that to your time and posting XP should yield some nice XP this time around to everyone. Keep up the great work IC gang!!

HM


----------



## Sphyh

HolyMan said:


> INFO for the game...
> 
> Great Post Sphyh!! I want to see Lora play nice also, and read what's shes thinking while she does.
> 
> HM




thanks hm.... we get 15gp a piece or that was total? so ther is no chances of me buying some banded mail anytime soon? thats would give me +2 to my AC for only 250gp


----------



## Myth and Legend

> Let's see there is 15gp in the pouch


----------



## HolyMan

HA! ML you are no angel LOL  (trying to make it look like you didn't take any money haha).

No there was 15 gold only in the pouch and somewhere Lora found a money changer, I'm going to let it ride that you all gave here some here and there to change it so everyone gets 2gp and 5sp.

I know lame but I have reasons and armor and stuff will possibly be provided to everyone before the big fight. You don't need more armor for Onesimus he got a +1 DB, +1 dodge bonus and a +1 natrual armor bonus all in this adventure lol guess he will be the tank

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Just a little fyi DW that was your best post (for me) to date.




Thanks. About the other stuff, I just hadn't really seen a way to work it into Jareth's thoughts. He's been so focused on the job at hand (and given that he's trying to ignore his past) that I saw no reasonable way for him to think about any of his history.

I expect he'll get some more chances to deal with people like his father, which should be some interesting RP.

By the way, we stated in my background that Jareth's father was a diplomat... Would that be a governmental position, or a minor noble position? I wasn't completely sure, but Jareth does have the signet ring with his family's seal... I don't really care one way or the other, but would just like to ask before we're dealing with a bunch of the nobility.


----------



## HolyMan

It said your father was a diplomat to the elves and the elves live the other side of the river from Harkon. Your family probably lived somewhere similar just further south from where your character is now.

A place close to the elven/Pesh border, I would say that your father worked for the king of Pesh to help in relations with the elves and was called on by The Great King to try diplomacy with the Treylor. Let's say your family was well known as was their tragedy.

HM


----------



## Theroc

Hm... I'm rather undecided on what feat or feats to choose for Aidan for level 3.

I had considered Improved Grapple to reflect some lessons learned Aidan experienced from the large Reygurian, but it's been some time since then and Aidan's had no further practice...(and I'm not sure how often grappling would come into play).  I also considered Dodge, but I'm not sure whether or not 1 dodge is worth a feat and whether I need anything else in the chain.

Any suggestions that will fit Aidan will be appreciated, as I want to actually be able to gain XP soon.  >.>  I just don't wanna screw myself over for the future.  Reason I said feat or feats is I was considering swapping Still Mind... because Aidan's mind is anything but still... 

Edit:
Looking at a list of feats from crystal keep, I'm finding a few feats that fit Aidan that I would like to run past HM to review to help me decide if I should take Dodge, as they aren't PHB.  If HM is willing to look, of course.  Let me know, as I'm looking mostly to keep Aidan a mobile harassing type fighter who can lock down enemies.  Though, he may(if I decide to get improved grapple), also accept the chance to somewhat permanently lock down a single foe if it'll help the group.


----------



## Sphyh

HolyMan said:


> I know lame but I have reasons and armor and stuff will possibly be provided to everyone before the big fight. You don't need more armor for Onesimus he got a +1 DB, +1 dodge bonus and a +1 natrual armor bonus all in this adventure lol guess he will be the tank




needing more armor and wanting more armor are two totally different things


----------



## Myth and Legend

Theroc as I planned for a grappling Minotaur in one of CM's last games here (a grappletaur? ) I should advise you against improved grapple.

Grappling is the most effective when you are Large or bigger. Although Lora can cast Enlarge Person and later even make it permanent, it's not the same as a Minotaur or Ogre that get impossible STR scores. Things that make grappling effective, in order:

1. Large Size. 2. Lots of STR. 3. High BAB. 4. Rage 

Aidan has none of these. A full BAB build is essential for a grappling character. Also, there is a PrC - the Reaping Mauler, that is quite good and enhances the grappling, but it is too far off from your concept. And last but not least, a single lvl 4 spell - Freedom of Movement, negates any and all grappling attempts, which is just absurd but it's in the RAW.

Look if you are making a warrior/mage, you will definitely need Arcane Strike, but you can't take it now... Lora's going for WW attack (buld), but Aidan.. Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Dodge, Mobility, those are good. Spring Attack is nice for a skirmisher with high Tumble.


----------



## Theroc

I didn't plan on grappling big people.  I planned on putting Valorn in a headlock and giving him a nuggie if he annoyed Lora too much.  That and I wanted the bonus to escaping the grapple if I fight that Reygurian again.

But Dodge/Mobility might be good with Wolfpack tactics or exhausting defenses and such, making Aidan a good harasser.


----------



## Sunking

a few thoughts and quistions

firstly for the druid
can i replace weapon prof: 
dagger, scimitar, sickle with bows (it feels a little od that the remove all metal except those and remove somthing natural like the bow)
 
Then can i exchange Diplomancy and spellcraft for hide and move silently since it more fitting for what she is about. (It would be ok with me if this cost me the medium armor prof.)

then about a prc and two feats are they somthing you will allow or should i be looking other ways.

I am thinking about aiming for this PRC with the druid for more of her witch side.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm

Therefore I would need this feat to qualify 
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#wildTalent

And I the other feat was go I would also be interested in this one
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#speedOfThought

---
was very close in chosing the marshal when I heard the words underpowered but vent with the druid becaus of healing


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience Points Feb-16th to Feb-28th*

ok getting late and I have work early (took longer because I had to go through all th posts of both threads). Here's everyones XP with the bonus for completing Spider's Quest.



		Code:
	

[U]Player                                  XP  [/U]
Myth and Legend                        820
Theroc                                 685
ghostcat                               700
Sphyh                                  470
Dragonwriter                           530
Frozen Messiah                         510

 
Looks like Claude will be 3rd lvl soon.

@Sunking- your trades look good you could lose medium armor prof for hide and move silently as class skills. 

HM


----------



## Sunking

Tira
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Size: Medium
Age: 24
Height: 5'2"
Weight: 116lb
Hair: Bright Red
Eye:Emerald green 
Skin:bronze shine(outdoors alot)

[sblock=Apperance] Tira is fair of build and moves with the grace of a hunting cat, she wears light leathers that allow her to blend in with the woodlands and shadows. Tira keeps her hood up and keeps to the shadows, since she is not comfortable around lots of people and it can be seen in the way she is always trying to hide. [/sblock]

so i might start while finishing the charekter


----------



## HolyMan

Ok Sunking that is enough to get started RP and earning some XP 

Just post your character to  http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/272541-battle-harkon-manor.html thread (to subscribe) letting me know where it is you are starting.(i.e. woods or at the Manor itself).

What has me itching to type is ML's new signature is that Heliasillyel??? (might spell wrong going from bad memory) Great new look ML 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

It's the image i used in the RG for Heliasillyel yes  Although i did take it from elfwood.com, i take no credit for the original image. I just used some Photoshop to make the avatar and signature, after all, i did study design in college. Oh, and if you click the picture it takes you to my signature page  Anyway glad you like it HM! I like it as well, and I'm proud with it


----------



## HolyMan

Yes I did go to the signature it seems you are only in three games and I DM two of those. 

I am honored. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@ Sphyh two things 

Just read your post and it was great you have picked up on the Noble/Serf style I'm thinking of running (and without the slave collars LOL).

Harkon is out of the way and I was hoping for some character development for you as you haven't had alot of RP time. Now tommorrow  I will be at the library looking up info on the feudal system, and I get to post all day unlike tonight were I am getting off in a min. 

So alittle insight into Onesimus personal backgroud, reminise how are things the same how are they different. I'm here to help. 

oh and two: there is no counter this building is hard to describe in IC just picture a one lvl tavern with a carport over the front and tables and benches under the porch roof. There is a counter and tables inside so you could say you went in fpr a min and returned.

Thanks for the great post.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HM, depending on circumstances, Aidan may do something similar to Onesimus, if he comes to realize this girl needs money as much as he does(or if she does a particularly good job).  But, I'm not sure what would make it apparent to him, since he knows nothing of nobility at all, so he would be thinking this was a voluntary waive of charge, meaning they could afford it.

Edit: Also, still debating on feats.  Thinking Dodge... but not sure what to take as the other(Since I don't think still mind really fits him)


----------



## HolyMan

Still mind could be played off a number of ways. You decide to be more calm when combat erupts. Your dragon blood has an inate resistance to enchantments and has awoken after the spell that was cast on you.

Still mind will give you a +2 to save vs. Sleep LOL  sure that would be useful. 

HM


----------



## Sphyh

thanks for info HM. Any advice is readily welcomed. most of my tabletop experience for dnd was combat not rping focused.


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Still mind could be played off a number of ways. You decide to be more calm when combat erupts. Your dragon blood has an inate resistance to enchantments and has awoken after the spell that was cast on you.
> 
> Still mind will give you a +2 to save vs. Sleep LOL  sure that would be useful.
> 
> HM




True, except in 1-2 levels it won't work on me, and at level 20 I'll be completely immune... and I don't think I'll be allowed to swap the ability out then.


----------



## HolyMan

Sphyh said:


> thanks for info HM. Any advice is readily welcomed. most of my tabletop experience for dnd was combat not rping focused.




That should change here my friend LOL  It is you background so however involved you wish it. Like I have said add little tidbits that refer to what your life was like and when you do something now it could be due to this happening or that.



Theroc said:


> True, except in 1-2 levels it won't work on me, and at level 20 I'll be completely immune... and I don't think I'll be allowed to swap the ability out then.




Always lookimng ahead good ideal I better find somemore spell caters with sleep to confront the party brb LOL 

HM


----------



## Sunking

little detail

hair: Emerald green 
eyes: Bright Red

is wrong it was meant the otherway, im sorry and diden't catch the mistake before ML commendet on my strange green hair color.


----------



## Theroc

M&L: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4977402-post276.html

Lora already knows why Aidan is interested in Clerics, he told her after the run in with Rathman the Reygurian grappler, before the went to bed and took the Spider's Path.

If you want her to have forgotten, that's fine, I suppose... but Lora didn't seem the type to forget things like that.


----------



## Theroc

HM: I'd like to present a feat for your to review.

Defensive Throw (Complete Warrior)
Prerequisites - Dexterity 13, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike
Benefit:  If the opponent that you have designated to receive your Dodge  bonus to AC attacks you and misses, you can make an Attack of Opportunity against that opponent to attempt to Trip him.

I think this would fit Aidan, basically if his primary opponent attacks and misses, there's an opening for him to exploit to attempt to trip him up and throw him off kilter.


----------



## HolyMan

I like it Theroc it works well with Aidan's combat style and pentalies your enemies. 

HM (who is on break at work)


----------



## HolyMan

Theroc said:


> M&L: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4977402-post276.html
> 
> Lora already knows why Aidan is interested in Clerics, he told her after the run in with Rathman the Reygurian grappler, before the went to bed and took the Spider's Path.
> 
> If you want her to have forgotten, that's fine, I suppose... but Lora didn't seem the type to forget things like that.




LOL  To ML that post was over 3 months ago but to Lora it was 3 days 

One of the bad things about pbp but there are so many kool things I  guess everyone lives with the few bad

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

HolyMan said:


> LOL  To ML that post was over 3 months ago but to Lora it was 3 days
> 
> One of the bad things about pbp but there are so many kool things I  guess everyone lives with the few bad
> 
> HM



Exactly! Fortunately, we have an OOC thread to remind each other. I had forgotten that during Aidan's and Lora's "sharing & caring" moment he told her about his father


----------



## Theroc

Haha, I had to double check myself, I was like, "Didn't Aidan tell her already?  Well, I'll doublecheck to make sure."  So since i was already checking, I figured I'd link to refresh your memory too.


----------



## Theroc

HM, I believe Aidan's ready to be reviewed for level 3


----------



## HolyMan

Everything checks out Theroc oh and btw this:



> 4HP 1d8+2=4
> (Invisible Castle hates Aidan)




Not true not true IC just likes to keep things nice and rounded so it wanted Aidan to have 20HP total LOL 

Change your sheet and post a revelation or something to account for the level up. here is some inspiration-

Aidan had been quiet for the last day or so, spending most of his time berating himself. All those fights, the spiders, the gnolls, even that last one in the circle he had come away worse than he gave. What was he doing wrong? Why didn't he _move faster_ and keep moving, what if he just kept ducking and weaving? _Dodging _the blows till he could do that takedown move he saw. Trying to remember the manuver, it was a long time ago and Aidan had been young, but the way that fighter could _throw_ his opponents around.

Well you get the drift have fun. Laters.

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> Not true not true IC just likes to keep things nice and rounded so it wanted Aidan to have 20HP total LOL




If it wanted to keep it even, it could have rolled a 6 last level, giving Aidan an 8 total, putting him at 20, then rolled an 8 this level up, giving Aidan a total of 30 HP.  

That would have been even, and not evil to Aidan's ability to survive in melee.


----------



## HolyMan

I was remebering when Aidan had 10 hp at first lvl and Lora's suitor kneed him for excatly 10 knocking the wind out of him. (Has Aidan ever won a fight since we started playing??)

Hmmm and here I was going to make him feel a nobody next to Vance, maybe I should rethink that. I would hate for you to feel suicide was the only choice for your character. That would be too much. 

So I need Aidan to feel the hero I think he has been step on enough. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I was remebering when Aidan had 10 hp at first lvl and Lora's suitor kneed him for excatly 10 knocking the wind out of him. (Has Aidan ever won a fight since we started playing??)
> 
> Hmmm and here I was going to make him feel a nobody next to Vance, maybe I should rethink that. I would hate for you to feel suicide was the only choice for your character. That would be too much.
> 
> So I need Aidan to feel the hero I think he has been step on enough.
> 
> HM




Haha, if Vance made Aidan feel too much of a nothing, he may end up jeopardizing the mission.  In anycase, pretty much the only thing Vance could do that would really get under his skin would be getting into Lora's good graces.  That's why he doesn't like Vance already.   He figures Vance has everything Aidan doesn't.

Edit: I may not have backtracked Aidan's health accurately.  He's rolled a 4 total increase both levels.  >.<

Edit: To your parenthesized question - No, Aidan has miserably failed everytime he was needed to step up.


----------



## ghostcat

Trinham has been ready to level for ages. The only thing stopping me posting it, is that I am dithering about his new spell. Currently I am favouring _*Color Spray*_ But I am not totally convinced.

I am looking for an area effect, attack spell which will be effective beyond fifth level.

BTW. I only have access to the PHB.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sleep is by far the best offensive level 1 spell, followed by Magic Missiles. Colour Spray is nice but a bit random. Every mage worth his salt should have Mage Armor, Shield and Identify however. True Strike is awesome but not awesome enough to warrant the use of a standard action, and spontaneous casters must burn an extra feat to be able to quicken spells pre-epic levels.


----------



## HolyMan

Hey ghostcat you know we have so many mages in this game that you could go the utility route. Comp Langs, tenser's floating disc, or the like. But if you want combat spells again you could go helpful. Magic weapon, pro evil, and the like just a few ideals it is your character you know the direction you want to go. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

If it helps, the majority of Aidan's magic will probably be buffing magic for him, since I am intending on a feat which lets him convert spell slots into a breath weapon.  (Dragon Heritage feats, if I get a chance to start taking the feats, I'll let you know and submit them for approval, HM)


----------



## ghostcat

OK. My thinking goes something like this:

Battle Sorcerers are restricted in the number of spells they can learn. So every spell has to be useful for as long as possible. Although _Sleep_ is useful at the current levels, it becomes useless once we progress to fighting higher level enemies; unless they have lower level canon fodder (this only just occurred to me)

As a Battle Sorcerer, I can either:

- go the Fighter who can cast spells route. In which case defensive spells like _Mage Armor_ and _Shield_ are essential.; with his offensive capabilities handled by his sword.

- go the spell caster who can protect himself route. In this case defensive spells are not as useful as he can wear light armor, which will provide some protection, for when he can't avoid melee. This is the route I have selected, so am looking for an attack spell that won't become redundant as he levels up and encounters higher level opponents.

As for HM's suggestion of a utility mage. At the end of the day, he is a fighter. He just does not want to be a front line fighter.

Finally, writing this post has made me question my decision as to which route to take Trinham. Decision, Decision, so many decisions 

Anyway going out to dinner, so will be back later.


----------



## HolyMan

I was on break when I was answering your question ghostcat and was going to edit in this:

Part of my job as DM is to make encounters that play to your strengths as well as your weakness, so whatever you decide I will help to make it useful.

But I didn't have the time take whatever you will enjoy playing/posting and I have a question. Don't battle sorcerers get the ability to swap out known spells at a certain level like bards and sorcerers??? If not I will be amending that 

HM


----------



## ghostcat

He can. I'd missed that one. Problem solved. _Sleep_ it is.

I'll get the level update up this weekend.


----------



## ghostcat

Trinham's level 3 updates are now up Here

That ******* Invisible Castle gave me the second "1" in a row for his hit points.


----------



## HolyMan

You now have a +2 BAB don't forget to give yourself a +1 DB to AC

IC is just helping with your choice for following the wizards path, you could take Toughness to up your hp to 16.

Skill points easier if you list the points spent and not the total. At least easier for me to check.
You would have Spellcraft (1pt), Concentration (1pt), Intimidate (1pt), Know(arcana)-(2pts) then all I need then is make sure the rank doesn't take you over your max and such.

OK ghostcat looks good, except I don't see the scrolls listed you aren't carring one?


HM (who is headed back to work  )


----------



## Myth and Legend

Theroc did you miss my edit of this post? Lora made a promise to Aidan i think the boy would not simply ignore.

Sunking: Can you post your character in the RG thread? It's hard to find her in this one, and i need to see her CHA, appearance, clothes etc. Girls always notice the clothes and appearance of the people around them, and Lora is no exception.

HM: I am completely lost where we are exactly on a large scale. Perhaps more info in your World Details thread is due? I just went with North as a safe direction, but if it's not let me know so i can edit. Also, some info on the Treylor Empire in the WD thread would be nice as well.


----------



## Theroc

Myth and Legend said:


> Theroc did you miss my edit of this post? Lora made a promise to Aidan i think the boy would not simply ignore.




I didn't miss it so much as I was so damn tired I wasn't sure how much backtracking I should do in my post.  I've been kinda strained of late and did not want to read everything.  I'll go back and doublecheck and try to add in an appropriate response.  My first notion was Aidan was too busy watching Tira in case she was a threat that he simply did not hear, but I'm not sure if that would make sense either, since I forgot the order of events.


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> HM: I am completely lost where we are exactly on a large scale. Perhaps more info in your World Details thread is due? I just went with North as a safe direction, but if it's not let me know so i can edit. Also, some info on the Treylor Empire in the WD thread would be nice as well.




Large scale you are as far away as you can be from where the main Treylor army will attack. We started in western Pesh and started east, but turned and started heading north after leaving the kingdom into like a no-mans land. What Martomum called "Da Wilds". 

Then the group encountered the ruined villiage and the clue that it was a Treylor group that destroyed it. The army continued north discovering that the Treylor were headed that way also. But the only thing in that direction is the elven lands and Harkon Manor. So taking the Spider's Path (northwest) you cut the time getting to Harkon in half, as the armies must follow the "open-road" north/northeast then cut back west.

As for the Treylor I have been waiting to spring them on you since day two, so you are not going to get anything out of me. LOL I will give you some DC0 knowledge though:

Far to the east over the great Stone Sea mountains lies the Empire of Treylor. The only pass through the mountains is guarded on both sides and noone travels to or from the Treylor Empire. It is only known that they are a highly advanced society. (I have based them on the Roman Empire at it's height.)


----------



## HolyMan

XP to be givin out tonight so get any last minute posts in.

Looks like we are waiting for Sunking to respond and it's been almost 4 days. Hmm.. if nothing I will NPC him to move us forward after XP posting.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience March 1st - March 15th*



		Code:
	

Sunking                       170
Frozen Messiah                290   
Myth and Legend               135
Dragonwriter                   90
Theroc                        105
Sphyh                         110
ghostcat                      120

 

BIG congrats to FM for hitting the LEVEL 3 mark


Update and a big WOW about to drop in the IC!!


HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> BIG congrats to FM for hitting the LEVEL 3 mark
> 
> 
> Update and a big WOW about to drop in the IC!!
> 
> 
> HM





Alright, I will attempt to get it in A.S.A.P

Oh, I hope that Sunking isn't to bothered about sort of being pulled around so much


----------



## HolyMan

Kool FM,

I hope Sunking makes it back. When he started the You are all Gods ideal he was gone for like 10 days and then I started my thread. So maybe it's RL getting in the way.

Need him to help with his character 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Red hair and green eyes is my very first character on these forums - Abrielle  Oh and HM if you take notice - in VOTD the Dwarf shouts "ORC!" and now in your game the innkeeper shouts "ELF!" 

Also, Lora is very pissed at Claude, whom in her eyes is doing a worse insubordination than Jareth breaking formation at the sight of the Hydra. He went to chat up a comely lass and then suddenly decided to assume Lora was OK with letting her join the group and compromise the mission by sticking up for a complete stranger.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Myth and Legend said:


> Red hair and green eyes is my very first character on these forums - Abrielle  Oh and HM if you take notice - in VOTD the Dwarf shouts "ORC!" and now in your game the innkeeper shouts "ELF!"
> 
> Also, Lora is very pissed at Claude, whom in her eyes is doing a worse insubordination than Jareth breaking formation at the sight of the Hydra. He went to chat up a comely lass and then suddenly decided to assume Lora was OK with letting her join the group and compromise the mission by sticking up for a complete stranger.




Claude's mind has a list of most important:

1) Paladin Code (his own is basically you serve those who have nothing left and protect those that cannot protect themselves)
2) Orders given
3) Personal issues

This is one of the opprotunities where he will apologize for upseting her but not for what he did, It was not that that scenario worried him but more the fact that if she left what would happen.

Sorry if this caused a major amounts of trouble.


----------



## Myth and Legend

No trouble it's all good RPing


----------



## HolyMan

Yes good RPing I can't wait to read. 

Did not know about your first character ML I was refering to a more immediatly apparent character, check the RG. 

A little heated debt about the protection of innocents will be great and I get to play Vance excellent.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

IC Updated RP away. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

Hahaha, Aidan directly addressed Vance from his seat and was promptly ignored.  Oh well.  lol.

Btw, M&L about the edit.  I'm thinking about having Aidan bring it up again later, and just say he hadn't gotten a real chance to respond/bring it up at the time, with Tira and Vance and the Lynch mob and all.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sure no problem  I'm wandering how will Aidan react if Lora asks him to keep guard outside her door while she takes a bath.

By the way, if you guys want a visual aid, here is the girl that Lora was modeled after in appearance: gallery


----------



## HolyMan

@Theroc ??? you spoke to him ?? I must hve missed it I thought I had Vance indirectly let you know he has one eye on you

@ML thanks for the pics I couldn't picture in my head Lora smiling 


HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> @Theroc ??? you spoke to him ?? I must hve missed it I thought I had Vance indirectly let you know he has one eye on you






			
				Aidan said:
			
		

> "Oi, we've been on the road for awhile, so we ain't heard nothin' 'bout 'sassins 're war wit' elves. An' yer complainin' about me bein' ready ta fight if we're attacked? Whaddya want? I've been poisoned by giant spiders, put to sleep by gnolls and chased across a forest by a blinking multiheaded snakebeasty thing! If I wasn't ready for anything, I'd be a bloody fool!"





All of that was directly in response to Valorn mentioning Aidan seeming ready for a fight even while he was eating.


----------



## HolyMan

I just reviewed that and ignored it for a reason, it is in his nature. Saw your post after that, and that he will address. 

I'm headed to BaHM for a post before bed. 

HM


----------



## Theroc

HolyMan said:


> I just reviewed that and ignored it for a reason, it is in his nature. Saw your post after that, and that he will address.
> 
> I'm headed to BaHM for a post before bed.
> 
> HM





I figured you did for a reason, it just made me chuckle all the same.  I was just envisioning it, since that sort of thing happens in movies all the time.


----------



## HolyMan

Ok think we are ready for part two of BaHM So if you want to add anything before we head to speak with the Baron please add what you will.

I am about to clock in so I will update the thread tonight, sucks for me all these NPCs 

Also any questions ask away but I think my over all plot has gotten out finally. I wanted to wait till you were on the battlefield faceing an army of pointy eared Treylor. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience March 16th - March 31st*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                                 XP[/U]
 
Myth and Legend                     635
ghostcat                            470
Frozen Messiah                      530
Sphyh                               360
Dragonwriter                        360
Theroc                              335

 
OK gang was going to post the next day and start the ball rolling again but it looks like we need to catch up on our characters (kind of like me in a couple of my games). I haven't had a day of this week and we have a hoilday coming up so will up date Tue my day off till then no posts IC please. 

Please work on charaters I thought for sure I gave ghostcat the ok and I didn't know FM was done with his lvl ups till I saw them in the RG (mounted comabat?) hmm.. that reminds me FM I wish to change the name of the Purple Dragon Knights to Knights of The Purple Rose or Purple Rose Knights. Also I can't find the prequestise or abilities so I can give them to a few NPCs (Vance for one). 

What else oh... where are the magic items you all recieved I think Aidan and Claude each have a potion but no ideal where the scrolls are and can't Jareth read them at will? Said he would the next time he had a chance. 

Think a little breather to clean up and sharpen are wits, and we will be back at it. Oh wait...

ML you had a post come up the same time I did and it was a great piece about the day of your assault. Reading it am I to believe that "that man" is still out there? 

And ghostcat is it ok if I control your charater in my go to bed/wake the next morning post? I wish to pass on some of the feel of the manor and am thinking of having Trinham out walking the halls looking for Mogins and happen onto some info.

Alright I am done... I think. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> What else oh... where are the magic items you all recieved I think Aidan and Claude each have a potion but no ideal where the scrolls are and can't Jareth read them at will? Said he would the next time he had a chance.




Jareth can use Read Magic as a Spell-Like Ability (up to 6/day), so he can ID them at any time. (Arcane Attunement, as I outlined in his RG post.)


----------



## ghostcat

HM Go ahead and have Trinham look for Mogins. He does seem to have lost track of him, what with having balance problems and trying to avoid the notice of the nobility. You might also consider incorporating a midnight snack 

As far as updating my Character Sheet is concerned, I was waiting until I could update In-Character. However, as we are on a break, it seems the ideal time.


----------



## Myth and Legend

> ML you had a post come up the same time I did and it was a great piece  about the day of your assault. Reading it am I to believe that "that  man" is still out there?



Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. The assailant was sent off to trial, as far as Lora and her family know. He was part of the army proper and thus was not subject to local law. I have that in my story in the RG, FYI.


----------



## Sphyh

anything for me HM as far as updating or am i good?


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> Please work on charaters I thought for sure I gave ghostcat the ok and I didn't know FM was done with his lvl ups till I saw them in the RG (mounted comabat?) hmm.. that reminds me FM I wish to change the name of the Purple Dragon Knights to Knights of The Purple Rose or Purple Rose Knights. Also I can't find the prequestise or abilities so I can give them to a few NPCs (Vance for one).
> 
> HM[/quote]
> 
> Yes, Mounted Combat was the feat I choose because he was meant to be a horse archer so it is a necesary evil to get mounted archery.
> 
> [sblock=Purple Dragon Night]
> Requirements: Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good, Neutral
> BAB: +5
> Skills: Diplomacy or Intimidate 1, listen 2, Ride 2, Spot 2
> Feats: Mounted Combat, Negotiator
> 
> Purple Dragon Knight:
> BAB: Good Fort: Ref: Bad Will: Bad
> Skills: Climb, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Jump, Ride, Swim
> Prof: Tower Sheild
> 
> 1st: Heroic Sheild (+4 instead of +2 for aid another checks to armor class), Rallying Cry 3/day (a powerful shout that gives a +1 morale bonus on next attack roll and +5 feet of speed, free action)
> 
> 2nd: Inspire Courage 1/day (same as bard ability)
> 
> 3rd: Fear 1/day (can use the spell fear DC10+ Knight's class level+Charisma)
> 
> 4th: Inspire Courage 2/day, Oath of Wrath 1/day (free action, select a single opponent within 60 feet and gain a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and skill checks vs. chosen creature)
> 
> 5th: Final Stand 1/day (all allies in 10 feet gain 2d10 temporary hit points, only Knight class level + charisma mod can be effected)
> [/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

Sphyh said:


> anything for me HM as far as updating or am i good?





AC says 18 but everything equals 19 but since you have dodge you could list it 18(19)

Also the +1 Defensive Bonus (DB) that is 1/2 your BAB is added to your touch AC so that should be 12

And lastly could you put a link to the soilder PrC you wish to take will make it easier to check when you level up in that class and I can delete these PMs 

Thanks 
HM


----------



## ghostcat

HM. I have updated Trinham in the RG thread . 

Also,as I'd totally messed up Mogins' update, I updated the Level Up post. Hopefully, I've got him right this time.


----------



## Sphyh

HolyMan said:


> AC says 18 but everything equals 19 but since you have dodge you could list it 18(19)
> 
> Also the +1 Defensive Bonus (DB) that is 1/2 your BAB is added to your touch AC so that should be 12
> 
> And lastly could you put a link to the soilder PrC you wish to take will make it easier to check when you level up in that class and I can delete these PMs
> 
> Thanks
> HM




kk got it done.

if it comes to a point, and i more than likely will, where i need to update it again just let me know. thanks


----------



## HolyMan

OK guys really sorry no update tonight but am promising by tomorrrow midnight we will be rolling again.

Things to look forward to:

A) I know Theroc is out for the week but what I have planned for Adian is short and simple and very very important. So will start his and move it along at his pace.

B) I think Jareth & Tira should have a little warm light heart to cold stone heart talk.  You will find out the where abouts of Tharviol, a must for the next side adventure.

C) As for the rest of you it will be Mounted Combat time (thanks to FM) as we learn if the Treylor are out there and how many. I have been watching King Arthur and The Last Legion preparing for the mass combat to come.

So I will open with you all going to bed (Lora getting a bath) and Trinham out for a late night snack. In the morning most of you will be off on an early morning ride. 

Let me get back to my notepad to iron this out and we will be back in business.

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Since we are getting mounts I will most likely take this horse to be my special mount later on. I perfer to have the horse on the material plane and have the celestial energy come to it rather than it coming from the plane. It really doesn't effect the ability, it's more fluff than anything.


----------



## ghostcat

HM.

Logically, as Trinham has never ridden a horse in his life and is still suffering from the effects of the spider poison, he does not want to go horse riding. However, as a player, I don't want to miss any of the "fun"!

Can you have Vance insist that Trinham accompanies the party..


----------



## HolyMan

How about something IC to play it out, and Vance wil find you a calm old mare. 

I had something planned. Trust your DM 

HM


----------



## ghostcat

Don't worry, I was planning to play it out IC. Its just that Trinham is going to try to get out of going, so I just need to make sure that Vance is going to insist that he goes.


----------



## Myth and Legend

First of all, i wanted to show you guys [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYv9CHDc34w"]this funny video[/ame] by the same guy i posted videos of a couple of months ago. 

Secondly, I checked, and the Ride skill can be used without training. Also, mounting, riding and dismounting do not require ride checks. So relax


----------



## Myth and Legend

FM not to be a bother, but you can't just change an adult horse's name like that. If the animal has been trained for years and has gotten used to a name, you coming and calling it something else won't accomplish anything.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

it is meant to denote that ther is sme form of link that will come to complete itself when Claude gets the special mount ability, secondly I don't believe that they don't use the name of horses in training they will use simple vocal cues and physical ones to make the horse do what is wanted. This probably the first name that this horse has.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Horses are very intelligent, much more so than dogs. 







> I don't believe that they don't use the name of horses in training they  will use simple vocal cues and physical ones to make the horse do what  is wanted. This probably the first name that this horse has.



 It's not about what you believe, have you actually handled or ridden a horse? Do some research, they recognize their names. 

If you take a 6 year old German shepherd dog named Max, and start calling him Bart, it will take a long time for the dog to even acknowledge that the "bart" sound refers to it. And even later, if it's old master or another familiar voice calls "MAX!" it will still raise it's ears and look about.

Horses are quite intelligent, and while i haven't trained one, i have ridden horses and know people who breed them.


----------



## Sphyh

hey im from Texas and i know a thing or two about horses... there are 3 in pasture behind me house lol. horses can be trained and generalyl are to a name. other vocal cues seem to be better in most cases and physical cues the strongest... ie a salt lick will get the horse moving to you faster then calling their names. 

so renaming a military horse who was taught without using a name as a cue would be fine.... but however if it does know its name it could be difficult lol


----------



## Frozen Messiah

[sblock= @ M&L]


Myth and Legend said:


> It's not about what you believe, have you actually handled or ridden a horse? Do some research, they recognize their names.




My comment about horse training was not meant to make you look foolish or stupid all it was meant to do was state what i know about horse training, this is not meant to make you feel foolish or stupid either it is merely me responding.

I use believe as a way of saying "what I know about this is",this is not meant to offend it is just the vocabulary I choose to use. Now if this was the first time you encountered my writing than I would be much less likely to be as insulted because I would have chalked it up to a mistake but you are in another game with me. That means that you must have understood and choose your words with that understanding.

I am glad that you feel so strongly about this, I would ask you in the future to think about what you say and take emotions out of this because it really doesn't matter what or how I go about getting my special mount as long as HM has nothing to say about it.
[/sblock]



Sphyh said:


> horses can be trained and generalyl are to a name. other vocal cues seem to be better in most cases and physical cues the strongest... ie a salt lick will get the horse moving to you faster then calling their names.
> 
> so renaming a military horse who was taught without using a name as a cue would be fine.... but however if it does know its name it could be difficult lol




This was the point I was trying to make, there are far better ways to train a horse than to work with it's name. I am quite sure that it could learn it's name and react to it. I was also working on a mystical approach because the name that he gave the horse was the name that his father told him in his dream. This denotes that they are intrinsically tied and therefore the name is merely symbolic of this attachment.


----------



## HolyMan

First @ ML very funny vid 

And about horse I know nothing about training but I was going to have Vance say something like "How did you know his name?" remember this is D&D and anything is possible.

Ok as you may have seen I posted Aidan's little adventure in the Off to War IC figured it was a good place as he is back in camp and we could keep the story out of BaHM bad enough splitting it two ways. So you can keep up if you like or you may wait till Aidan tells you what happens. 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Oh come on FM you know this is me arguing, i meant no offense!  But see? I was right about the names... Erm, sort of


----------



## HolyMan

Writing to let you all know I am working on combat inbetween other works. Just very complex due to number of combants and most I control. 

Will let you know now I am invoking the DM privilege to "smudge" rolls or not roll and have the effect I wish to play out. This will not be a big factor verses PCs (except for the strength check Onesinus will autofail sorry, ) and will never get you killed. Just various fluff reasons you saw it happen when Kase failed his stay on horse check. It will be mostly cosmetic as the arrow thumping into him and sending him flying of his horse was a better post than "An arrow hits Kase in his shoulder and he roars in pain."

I have the ultimiate DM screen here and I intend to use it. 

Update and map tonight and I hope everyone can get one last post in before XP (I have a special reward to everyone for me slowing down the game. Trust me. )

HM


----------



## HolyMan

BaHM is updated and it was not fun. 

Ready for everyone to post round two but there will be no update till tomorrow night after XP.

I need to work on that now, LOL

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience  April 1st - April 15th*



		Code:
	

Myth and Legend                         495
Frozen Messiah                          730
Dragonwriter                            290
Sphyh                                   330
ghostcat                                445
Theroc                                  170

 
Ok here's what I did. I took and gave everyone 20% of the experience they needed to get to their next level (except for Theroc who got 10%) and added it to your post reward. Seems FM needed the most so he got the most, but it evened everyone out a little that is third lvl.

And it looks like DW may lvl up the end of the month, only needs 215 points. I am off to upgrade BaHM and then bed.

@ ML before I attack will let you know the big target will be getting the most attention from the guys in the forest. You posted that you were going to try and get out of range (which you(ML) believe to be max 110') but the listed range is only a range increment. A longbow (range 100') has a max range of 1000' or 333 + yards. So if you wish to change Lora's actions because you said you based them on info she knew but turned out that it was wrong let me know here and I will see what we should do. I'm not sure what is going to happen to Lora I'm on the way to Invisible Castle to find out.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Trying out my new mapper soon I hope to have a map of the Five Kingdoms.

Not to scale or anything just a way to get your bearings.

HM


----------



## Sphyh

well sad news guys. I dont think im really going to be having the time to play anymore 

thanks again for letting me game with all you. i had lots of fun but circumstances have changed. I started interning at my church which can be very time consuming... i working on transferring schools plus summer missions and on top of all that i got a girlfriend  so my time is EXTREMELY limited and something has to give.... (dont feel left out i wont be renewing my xbox live or WoW subscriptions either.)

So as far as onesimus goes hes all urs... feel free to npc him or kill him off or whatever. I vote an epic death that saves everyone in the party  but thats just me.

once again thanks for letting me play with yall and sorry i have to leave yall mid swing. 

grace and peace,
Paul


----------



## Frozen Messiah

But..but..but.. who will Claude have to shake his fist nagrily at the young people with... 

You made the right choice man. Good on ya for having so much to do this becomes a chore.

Best of luck with the GF and life in general

FM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Sphyh, good choice! Good luck to you 

HM: I know the Longbow ranges IRL, not sure about DnD. Let's just have Lora be wrong this once  Plus we can't leave Vance (Lora would really have everyone retreat back to Harkon, there's no gain in fighting here and risking our lives). So if we can't leave him and he's not going until he clears the guys in the grass, Lora charges on to aid him.


----------



## HolyMan

Good Luck to you Paul, and thanks for playing. Sorry but no dramatic death  my whole design reason around Off to War was so people could pop in and out. So Onesimus may get lost in the crowd as he soilders up and if after the summer you find the time we will be here.

@FM the design also leaves room for more youngins to join and a few vets to help ya shake fists.

@ML maybe in those quick two seconds she was thinking of a longbows best range the one that gives no penalty to attack rolls and wanted to move away to make it harder for the group to get hit. Oh and with Lora wounded Vance will not be chasing down no elves. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@DW good post because after the BaHM I do wish for the group to go into the elven lands, but I don't know to much about them. 

I'm thinking that there is two factions those who believe in human contact (that is why you and your family were there opening relations) and the xenophobes who believe in staying away from the world. Elves are kind of a community goverment with a little of their forebrothers (the Treylor) council style but no emperor. This elves are your typical wild elves living inconjuction with the land.

A lot I need to do but It is all part of the fun, the question is how much does your character remember from the little time he spent there I'm thinking you must have been really young, do to Tira's age and all.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

See, that's one of the issues I mentioned in our PMs when we were talking about Tira being older than Jareth. It somewhat damages his own backstory, as what I had written was that he and his family lived in the elven lands (where he was secretly taught by Tharivol) for some time before his father was reassigned to Treylor. I don't _really_ mind the change, but it does cause a few issues.


----------



## Deskjob

*The Deskjob*

Hello all,

This is Deskjob.  I hope to be able to rejoin your adventure soon as a new character.  I will take me awhile to catch up in my reading.  You guys are amazing!  Thanks.

(EDIT:  I have read as far back as March 1st.  I will stop here.  Thanks.)
(EDIT:  Skimmed IC, SpidersPath, and ManorBattle.  I will stop here.  Thanks.)

(EDIT:  Character Concept:  My life has changed alot since I dropped.  As have my taste in characters.  Lol.  I hope to keep the role of Shield Warrior the same.  A young man with Elvish influences who is a Leather-worker.  He joins the fight for family honor.  I would submit this class for consideration.  I hope to drop the spells though.  It should come as no surprise that I have become somewhat disenchanted with the Fighter class.  Haha.  Thanks Holyman.)

-Deskjob


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> See, that's one of the issues I mentioned in our PMs when we were talking about Tira being older than Jareth. It somewhat damages his own backstory, as what I had written was that he and his family lived in the elven lands (where he was secretly taught by Tharivol) for some time before his father was reassigned to Treylor. I don't _really_ mind the change, but it does cause a few issues.




Figured out a little (in D&D anything is possible) and it helps with the mystery I want to run in the next part of our game. Don't want to give to much away but we will make Tira 21 (2 yrs older) when you father first started tenative relations. And not to give to much away it was a 14 yr old Tira that was used to prove that humans shouldn't be allowed in the Elven lands when he was assigned a more permant postion. I will have it mentioned IC Tira would know the zeal of the xenophobes from her experiences with them.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

WB Deskjob, 

I have been giving the class the look over and it seems that it leans more Paladin than it does Fighter. Everything but the Special part is the same and at the special it just trades speciial abilities for different special abilities.

Of course a couple questions:

*Starting Gold 135gp?? not 5d4 or 2d6 or something similar.
*Might - the flavor says that these characters are masters of defense, so why the change are all White Guard big guys. I would think since you have it listed that they are Strength/Intelligence based they would have Combat Expertise
*Shield Bash - again masters of defense and this is an offensive ability
*Courage  - 4th lvl seems a little low to have so much bravo that you fear nothing and I think Taunt would be something that a White Guard would be doing almost from the start (but if it were me I would switch the level of thise two)
* Smite - gives the option for vs. good means there are Black Guard?? sell-swords maybe? bodyguards? But again an offensive ability and says all your attacks does this include spells?
*Mage Craft - gives the character 8 feats so long as he has spent 8 skill points in things like Craft:Alchemy, Craft:Weaponsmithing, or Craft:Jewler I believe that ability needs a lot more explaining.
*Guard Stance not a bad ability just has potential to be broken what if someone uses a reach weapon do they now have a 15' reach, it makes no mention of needing a shield so you could wield a two handed weapon and get the benefits of a shield by being in the stance. You get free ready action (movement only) and Combat Reflexes (no maximum), +2 to AC, an addditional 5' reach added to attacks, can't be flanked or sneak attacked by low lvl Rogues all for a -4 to hit and speed reduced to 5' (and it doesn't provoke AoO) I still think it a neat ability just needs balance.
*Cover finally a defensive ability but, makes no mention of where the ally needs to be. I would say in an adjacent square, and the White Guard should be weilding a shield.
* Bastion- Add to above "and better DR than a Barbarian" for -4 to hit and speed reduced to 5'
* Resist - defensive but why do you get it? Do you practice deflecting spells or get a divine boon, it says they cast spells as a Divine caster but nothing else mentions religion.
*Hope - That seems like a divine granted ability but it to is offensive.

Spells say divine but are based on INT instead of WIS, only thing I see here is having Identify on your spell list. 

Also chosing own class skills, (while I like that concept and would do it myself) not a standard in D&D except for commoner.

Ok after all that I still like the class but I think the Fluff is wrong, A White Guard (or change the name) is an idividual who has a guardian angel watching over them. These individuals always have a cause or goal and it is usually promoted by the being giving them the abilities (what is needed) to survive. They learn to watch everyone guage, their abilities and find a weakness to exploit, once they obtain greater knowledge they get better and better at defending/combating the many different types of encounters that plague a hero. They are aided in this by divine grace who wish to see them succeed in whatever venture as it in the long run furthers their own ends.

If I were to make a guy heavy on defense (the master of defense) he would have to always have a shield and would base abilities around that. Combat Expertise and save bonuses. 

Ok work to do  for now Deskjob we will playtest your class but be forwarned I will make his life miserable to compensate for his abilities. 

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

@HolyMan

[sblock=Response]Excellent.  The Shield-Wall will hold.  Muahahaha!  XD

I will be dropping his spells.  They are not necessary outside of the "Same Game Test" developed for playtesting new classes.  They will be removed.

The fluff can of course change to whatever you would like.  That is the ideal of D&D.  Excellent idea.

Response:

* *Starting Gold*:  This was a compromise between myself and two authors.  This is only a suggestion, not a rule.
* *Might*:  Makes Dex a dump stat.  Lost upon multiclassing.  Plays to your strengths.  Halt+Combat Reflexes is now dumped.  Ranged attack is dumped.  Light Armor becomes available for play.  Max Dexterity Penalties still apply.

...(_Sidenote_:  Your 4th level spells require an Intelligence score of 14 to wield.  Combat Expertise requires an Intelligence score of 13 to wield.  This is assumed upon creation.  However, I firmly believe that Class Features should exist outside of the world of "Just give em' a Feat".  Good Eye HolyMan...)

*  *Shield Bash*:  Encourages Shield use at early levels.  Increases DPS in melee.  Its a Job skill.
*  *Courage*:  Paladins gain this bonus at 3rd level.  This class gains it for the same reasons at 4th level.  Its a Job skill.
*  *Smite*:  Increases DPS in melee vs Aligned enemies.  Spells do not grant this bonus.  DPS = aggro = attention = doing your job.  Hehe.

...(_Sidenote:_  Yes there are Black Guards too.  However, creating an entirely new class based only of such a small change to this Class Feature seemed crazy.  Good eye HolyMan...)

*  *Mage Craft*:  This will be dropped.  Originally found in "Frank&K's Tomb Fighter Class".
*  *Guard Stance*:  Reach weapons past level 10 are mandatory for all Melee Fighters.  Beyond this level, a 10 foot range is not an advantage, it's just keeping up with the Monsters.  And because Dwarven Defender Stances suck...
*  *Cover*:  At 11th level no range is necessary.  You are the front-line, your wizard is the back-line.  Buff the back-line.  Adjacent just buffs your front-line armored-friends and keeps him from flanking.  Lose/lose.
*  *Bastion*:  Barbarian & Dwarf Defender gets permanent +3 at 13th.  You get conditional +3 at 12th.  Same idea you just have more Armor than he does.
*  *Resist*:  For spells which offer no saves.  Example:  Irresistible Dance and Enervation.  Without resistance, you are out of combat for 4-10 rounds minimum.  Your party will die long before that...
*  *Hope*:  Conditional buff at level 14+.  The range is controversial.  This was intended for your Melee buddies only.

Feedback:

Nice evalution HolyMan.  That makes you the millionth.  Haha.  I will loosen it for easier play.  Thanks.

*  Drop spells.
*  Drop Mage Craft.
*  Smite damage reduced to +2 every 5 levels vs. alignment.
*  Guard Stance offers only one Readied Action against movement.  Not several.
*  Reduce Bastion to +2 DR.
*  Reduce Hope range to 30'.[/sblock]

(EDIT:  I will be posting up a Character here soon with these changes in mind.  Thanks guys.)

[sblock=Marko, Custom Lv.1]
	
	




		Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Marko
[B]Class:[/B] White Guard 1
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] M
[B]Gender:[/B] M
[B]Alignment:[/B] NG
[B]Deity:[/B] none

[B]Str:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]Level:[/B] 1        [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)     [B]BAB:[/B] +1         [B]HP:[/B] 13 (1d10+3)
[B]Con:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]Grapple:[/B] +4     [B]Dmg Red:[/B] 0/0
[B]Int:[/B] 13 +1 (05p.)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30      [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0
[B]Wis:[/B] 14 +2 (06p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +0        [B]Spell Save:[/B] n/a
[B]Cha:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)     [B]ACP:[/B] -4         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] n/a

                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Str   DB   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +4    +2    +3    +0    +0    +0    19
[B]Touch:[/B] 13              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 16

                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      2    +3          +5
[B]Ref:[/B]                       0    +0          +0
[B]Will:[/B]                      0    +2          +2

[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/B]
Longsword                 +4     1d8+3      19/x2
Shield Bash               -7     1d4+3      20/x2

[B]Languages:[/B] Common, Elven.

[B]Feats:[/B]
Improved Shield Bash
Combat Expertise
Animal Affinity

[B]Class Features:[/B]
Might:  Trade Dex mod for Str mod to AC.  Armor Penalties apply.

[B]Skill Points:[/B] 24       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 4/2
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Ride                       4    +0    +2    +6
Handle                     4    +0    +2    +6
Craft (leatherwork)        4    +1          +5
Spot                       4    +2          +6
Swim                       4    +3    -8    -1
Sense Motive               4    +1    0     +5

[B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B]
Chainshirt              100gp   25lb
Shield (hv,stl)          20gp   15lb
Longsword                15gp    4lb
Backpack                  2gp    2lb
Bedroll                   1sp    5lb
Waterskin                 1gp    4lb
x2 Beltpouch              2gp    1lb
Travelers clothes


[B]Total Weight:[/B]57lb      [B]Money:[/B] 9gp 9sp 0cp (Craft Check Included)

                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]               76   153   230   230   460

[B]Age:[/B] 21
[B]Height:[/B] 5'10"
[B]Weight:[/B] 160lb
[B]Eyes:[/B] green
[B]Hair:[/B] black
[B]Skin:[/B] white


*Background:* Marko.  His occupation before the war was as a leather-worker. Commonly making boots, vests, and cloaks for local farmers. He has received schooling because his father held a minor office in local politics and his widowed aunt was a teacher. He has receiving education in reading, writing, mathematics, horsemanship, fencing, and shoemaking. Due to the early death of his father his family invites him to enlist and gain political office through military service.  He has also had the oppurtunity to learn the Elven dialect from his late father.

Marko was once married.  It was an arranged marriage to a girl named Lilith from his fathers village.  Marko was 18 and Lilith was 16 at the time of their marriage.  Not uncommon for his clan.  Sadly, she died of illness during their first year of marriage.  Marko has no children and feels he has lost the love of his life.  He still has trouble sleeping.

Marko joined the Irregulars to seek station as an Officer.  Hoping to retire from service into political office, as did his father.  He also hopes to rid himself of his grief and his troubled past.[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Deskjob just gave your character a glance over but so far...

How does having STR instead of DEX as a bonus to AC still giube you a Touch AC bonus and a Flat-Footed penalty. I would say your touch AC would be penalized as you don't dodge out of the way much (or put your shield up and get hit), with Flat-Footed you aren't penaltized because you use your STR to "take the hit" your class but I would say your Touch AC is 10 and your Flat-Footed is 19 again your class so your call.

Skills - need to know total list of class skills just list them all even if you have zero ranks in it. Still believe you should have them set not allowed to pick(standard D&D), but then again I believe every class should be allowed to pick their class skills. Not all fighters are the same, a dwarven cleric isn't the same as an elven cleric.

Biggest thing is background and race, Background I need for you to start in Harkon Manor please either a native, a visitor, or something else you can think of,being there in the wayhouse. Race you may choose elf (Nandirly). Either way I would like for you to be at the wayhouse because the PC's might need a translator soon. Also you know Vance, Brend, Kase and Robert they are paying for your stay at the wayhouse and you could say you have done odd jobs for them. If you choose elf you are being hidden in the wayhouse cellar. Alot Iknow but I need you with the group as the army and irregulars are far away.

About RG post your new character in a different spot please keep Shinn he was a part of our game.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

@ HolyMan

I understand.  Great ideas too.  I will post this Char in the RG in a new spot.  I will also make the changes you suggested to his AC, Skill List, and Background.  He will start in Harkon Manor as you suggested.  PM me any other changes as you see them.

Thanks guys, I look forward to joining you soon.

(EDIT:  Character posted.  I await how you would like me to join the group.  Thx.)


----------



## Myth and Legend

Hey, welcome back! I had given up on you and Shinn (first post in the RG). Perhaps you should edit your new character in that first post, rather than making a new one on page 2?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwvYuL2PMA"][/ame]


----------



## HolyMan

I told him to take a second spot I can always use Shinn's stats for a generic PC and he was a part of the campaign. If you were to make another character I wouldn't want you to post over Lora . 

Will see what I can do have been thinking on how to get you into the game just need to get the group back to Harkon.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@Myth:*  Thanks.  Good to be back.

*@HolyMan:*  I will just wait then and follow along with the BaHM plot.  No prob.  I did have quick question though.  I wanted this new char to have a Deity.  Who is the Deity of Travel in Pesh?  Thanks.


----------



## HolyMan

The god of Travel, Luck, and Commerce in the Five Kingdoms is the one you help me design. 

Make sure you have Knowledge(religion) to know anything past DC10 or you could just know what the average man knows. An we need list nothing more than the basics.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Goddess of Travel*

Okay, how about this.  I liked the idea of a tiny and whimsical goddess.

[sblock=Diety Cambi]
*Cambi*
_Cambiare Rotta:  Italian for "to change course, to change route"._

*Symbol*: A star above water.
*Domain*:  Travel, luck, and commerce.
*Align*: NG.
*Dogma*: Change is inevitable.  Luck favors the bold.  Avenge freedom and rescue liberty.
*Appearance*:  A female faerie riding a small fish.

*Overview*:The god of change, Cambi delights in freedom, trade, travel, and adventure.  Her temples are few in civilized lands, but her wayside shrines
appear throughout the world. Travelers, merchants, and all types of adventurers are drawn to her worship, and many people raise a glass in her honor, viewing her as the god of luck.

*Bardic Song:*
_She wears leaves in her hair to master the wind.
She wears a white robe for she never has sinned.
She holds a small fish to master the sea.
She holds a small smile for which to bless me.
She takes a small spear to master the beast.
She takes the first bite at every high-feast.
Love her or leave her is any man's guess.
But leave her a gift, for safety is best._[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

Very Very kool I will put her in the religion post in The Five Kingdoms. Guess you don't need my help that is sure enough to start.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM you have High Elven in your campaign? Then why the hell did i take Orcish for Lora at character creation?! 

Deskjob: there is no post order. Only the Force.


----------



## HolyMan

High Elves live almost 2,000 miles away  Marko was one of the lucky few Peshmen to recieve schooling in such an unknown language. I think it might have to do with professional tyes hoping one day they could trade to the west, but that was before they learned of the invasion by the Treylor.

Remember ML most of this is seat of my pants playing,  and that makes it the most fun.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*@HolyMan:*  Congrats on 3000 posts.  Woot woot!

*@Myth:*  Oh, I guess post order is just for Intv during combat?  My bad.  Hehe.  In that case, now I'll be spamming all of HolyMan's Npc posts.

Vance:  Lora will you please...
Marko:  Oh, oh, pick me! pick me!
Vance:  No Marko I'm talking to Lora...
Marko:  Oh, oh, pick me! pick me!
Vance:  Marko shut up...
Marko:  I love Dara Shadowtide!
Vance:  Um what?...


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks Deaskjob (almost made that post # 3,000 but I caught myself LOL)

real qiuck I want to talk to everyone about XP. I have been for a while now thinking on this and with Deskjob's return I need to make a ruling on it so here goes:

XP earned by the players stays with them carrying over if they have a character die, retire to NPCism, or a player is looking for a change.

The reason I'm thinking this is the XP earned are not based on your character beating up this or that monster but by the amount of time and effort you put into our game. And I don't ever wish for you to base a decision for your character on the fact that you don't want to start a lower level one. 

Thoughts please I think it won't be overly abused but everyone's take on this would be apperciated.

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

I don't mind that idea at all. I think that there should have to be some form of requirement, like having to write a something on what the old character does after they become NPC and a proper backstory/first post as new character to allow for the change.

Just my 2 coppers on this idea...


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

Case by case basis.  I certainly wouldn't object given my current situation.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience April 16th - April 30th*



		Code:
	

Myth and Legend                            460
Dragonwriter                               530
ghostcat                                   445
Frozen Messiah                             500
Deskjob                                    255

 
*LEVEL UPS!!  *

Looks like DW hit LVL 3(same as the rest of the party except one ) and ML hit a little spot known as LVL 4

CONGRATS TO YOU BOTH 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Woohoo! Now I finally get the Duskblade signature trick: Arcane Channeling. 

Here’s the level-up update, which I will add to the RG post and then to Jareth’s post, once I get the OK from you, HM.

[sblock=Jareth Level 3 Changes]
Jareth Level-up

HP (d8+2): +5.
BAB increases to +3.
Reflex save increases to +1.
Gain one more 0-level spell per day (total 5/day) and one more 1st-level spell per day (total 5/day). Learn new 1st-level spell (True Strike).
Gain Arcane Channeling class feature (see main character post).
Gain Knock-Down feat.
Gain 8 skill points (2 base +2 house rule +3 INT +1 Human): Concentration +1 (total 8), Knowledge (arcane) +1 (total 9), Spellcraft +1 (total 13), Tumble +1 (total 7), Ride +1 (total 7), Sense Motive +1 (total 6), Jump +2 (total 8). Gain synergy bonus from Jump on Tumble checks, raising Tumble to 9.
[/sblock]

And

[sblock=Arcane Channeling]
From Player’s Handbook 2, page 20

Arcane Channeling (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.

At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.
[/sblock]


----------



## HolyMan

Hey DW, congrats on LvL 3 (didn't know I was poet??) Also didn't know it was a "mile stone" for your duskblade. 

Your description didn't say what happebs if you miss your target, but still assumes you can hild the charge. It says " and deliver the spell through your weapon with *a* melee attack." 

It does say it has to be your next attack. Have you seen this in play before do you know any examples?

Just want to be sure of it your my first duskblade. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Hey DW, congrats on LvL 3 (didn't know I was poet??) Also didn't know it was a "mile stone" for your duskblade.
> 
> Your description didn't say what happebs if you miss your target, but still assumes you can hild the charge. It says " and deliver the spell through your weapon with *a* melee attack."
> 
> It does say it has to be your next attack. Have you seen this in play before do you know any examples?
> 
> Just want to be sure of it your my first duskblade.
> 
> HM




It's a milestone because of the signature trick, combining combat and magic in one fell swoop.

I hadn't caught that before... And there's nothing in the errata about what happens if you miss. I would think that if you miss, it is wasted, like a standard touch spell. Holding the charge just means you cast it and don't use it yet (which is not what Arcane Channeling is about).

I don't see where you are getting the "next attack" portion. Arcane Channeling uses "a melee attack" at 3rd level, because it is used as a standard action, granting only one attack. At 13th level, it can be used with multiple attacks (but that is a long ways off yet). (Also, I have seen a few people house-rule the Full Attack Arcane Channeling to only affect an opponent once per turn, which I would understand if you wanted to do. Being able to deal 2d4+x+15d6 from 3 Shocking Grasps (or more) against 1 enemy at 13th level could be a bit daunting. However, I could still channel it and attack multiple foes within range.)

Arcane Channeling is meant to be a single standard action at this point, using a melee weapon attack to deliver both the weapon strike and a magic spell. Basically, the duskblade uses his weapon instead of his hand (unless he's also a monk) to hit with a Touch spell.
An example: I channel Shocking Grasp into an attack against a gnoll. I make my attack roll. If I hit, I deal my normal damage and then add the Shocking Grasp damage to it.

At 13th, I would be able to use it as a full attack or standard action.


----------



## Myth and Legend

I do believe the 13th lvl ability works once per _target_ :



> At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as a part of a full  attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee  combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the  round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer  than 1 round.



 I think if you WW attack and hit 4 goblins, each one will be shocking grasped.

HM if you need the Duskblade writeup (or any other writeup i have provided) check out my blog.

On Lora getting to lvl 4: yay!  Soon she will finally take on the warrior-mage route herself. Umm I'm thinking she needs to do some research at the library though, as soon as she is patched up, changes her clothes and of course, all that after we are done with the prisoner.


----------



## HolyMan

Have been looking around reading posts on arcane channleing and it sems from some of them they believe you lose the spell on a miss and some say you can hold the charge. To late for ruilings but I will read up on touch spells and figure something out.

back to the game first 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Done with Lora's lvl 4 changes, let me know if it's OK before i factor them in the sheet. I also noticed that i haven't been updating my spells in the actual sheet, need to fix that.. And possibly select the spells i will prepare once Lora rests tonight.

There are so many excellent level 2 spells i just don't know what to take first. The magic tattoo thing i found just now (honestly, didn't know i'd find a use for Lora's drawing skill). Ray of Stupidity is awesome when empowered and combined with a quickened True Strike - bye bye mr. 4 Int Bear! (now don't make everyone a super genius to counter this though ) OR better yet: a regular True Strike + a regular Ray of Stupidity = bye bye mr. Hydra! Yes i do beleive Lora will be able to one-shot that pesky Hydra once she rests.

There's also Combust, true it's touch but it's 10d6 fire damage at CLVL 10 with no save plus a chance to set one on fire. There's Protection from Missiles of course, which Lora will need ASAP to avoid being turned in to a pin cushion . There's Blink, Mirror Image, Bull's Strength, Swift Fly, Balor Nimbus, Baleful Transposition (the "any target" variant of Benign Transposition) etc. etc. etc.... Most of those are from the SC though, but i will continue to provide writeup. 

My question is, Since we are Lvl 4, will we be getting the according wealth for lvl 4 characters any time soon? I really need to boost Lora's STR score and get her some scrolls for sure.


----------



## HolyMan

LvL up looks good ML also sorry I forgot about Lora speaking orc. Let's just say he grimaced as the human female started growling and grunting. It came as a shock to the elf and Brend jumped in so quick shs sure he heard but didn't understand. 

@DW not sure what to do with Jareth. Can you post him telling Rizella thanks amd leaving then head where you wish. Remeber Lora is still technically in charge of the group (which is falling away around her lol), so you must decide how your character treats his old companions. 

Update tonight which will entail ending the interrigation and some (equipment/researching time) I'm such a nice DM  

p.s. the gold per character lvl is not in use remember I have you take on crazy ELs all the time, but I am working on getting everyone something nice for their end of year 1 gift. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @DW not sure what to do with Jareth. Can you post him telling Rizella thanks amd leaving then head where you wish. Remeber Lora is still technically in charge of the group (which is falling away around her lol), so you must decide how your character treats his old companions.




Okay... I was waiting on you for an update. *shrug* (EDIT: See post 211 in BaHM.)

Is the level-up good, though? Because I still haven't changed his RG posts, as I have been waiting on the "go ahead."


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry have been reading on Arcane Channeling. There are plenty of forumns out there about it. And I looked up Touch spells in the PHB (not much there) I still would like to see some examples of it in use. 

What happens on a crit, why are range touch spells not usable (a touch spell is a spell with a range of touch, but I think some spells fit both catagories?? still looking into that though) and what are the effects of Special attacks - trip/disarm/etc. It says may cast as part of a standar melee ation which some of those are.

Everything is good other wise (just no go ahead because I didn't know what Arcane channeling did) so put you lvl 3's in the RG and change Jareth won't be long before the big mass combat and you can try out what you have learned.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Sorry have been reading on Arcane Channeling. There are plenty of forumns out there about it. And I looked up Touch spells in the PHB (not much there) I still would like to see some examples of it in use.
> 
> What happens on a crit, why are range touch spells not usable (a touch spell is a spell with a range of touch, but I think some spells fit both catagories?? still looking into that though) and what are the effects of Special attacks - trip/disarm/etc. It says may cast as part of a standar melee ation which some of those are.




Crit should be resolved normally, with the weapon dealing crit damage and the spell having its' effect. There could be an argument for a crit'ed Channeling dealing crit for weapon and spell (which I wouldn't mind ), but you could also consider the spell to be extra dice of damage, and therefore not subject to crit multipliers. Just to let you know, though, any spell that requires an attack roll can crit, according to the rules (specified in Complete Arcane, but there in PHB also). I'll abide with whatever you choose.

As for Trip/Disarm/etc... Those are attack actions, Arcane Channeling is its own standard action, so they cannot be combined. (Or, that is how I see it, anyway, and would rule if I were DM'ing.)




> Everything is good other wise (just no go ahead because I didn't know what Arcane channeling did) so put you lvl 3's in the RG and change Jareth won't be long before the big mass combat and you can try out what you have learned.
> 
> HM




Well, I'll edit the RG posts with the new info. I was mainly asking for the OK on his HP, skills, feat and all that. Arcane Channeling could take a while to use, since combat could be a some time away, with the posting rate. 

And do you want me to come up with something for Jareth to leave the luncheon, or could you just post something about the lunch ending and Rizella having to take care of her own duties/whatever? Despite being rather surly most of the time, Jareth would not leave a lady alone, after being invited by her to a meal. He was raised in semi-courtly surroundings, after all.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get any info from the bloody elf? I mean I thought about bringing in Jareth but I don't believe that he would be very receptive to the idea. I am totally out of ideas, anyone has any sort of spell that may help?


----------



## HolyMan

You already got the info you need,  I will be posting an update tonight with all of it and we will move forward.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

I personaly would try to reason with him and try to find some ways of communicating. Perhaps Lora's drawing skills could come in to play? Although she'd rather just throw him shoveling dung out of the stables 

Oh wow i read the reply. We were all deceived by Deskjob's posts of Marko hearing nothing but insults and raving i think.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

I was deceived myself.  Lolz.  I kinda thought the elf was just rambling on again...  Guess he wasn't.  Good thing HolyMan did that last post for me too.  I would have just translated Marko's perspective.

"What did he say Marko?"
"Uhh, that your Mom is an Orcish whore."
"Really?"
"Yep.  Thats about it.  Bag em' and Gag em'.  Looks like were done here..."


----------



## HolyMan

That's one of the things about reading the RP instead of being around the table alot can be missed (body language, facial experrsions, etc.) I will try and convey more emotion through my fingertips. LOL

@Deskjob   didn't anyone notice my good cop bad cop routine???

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Heh i noticed it but Lora rarely comments on things that are too obvious for her.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> @Deskjob  didn't anyone notice my good cop bad cop routine???
> 
> HM




I thought it was that but I had the nagging doubt in the back of my mind that this was not going to tiurn out well. More of a "put him in the dungeon" and then he is never seen of again rather than just killing him.


----------



## HolyMan

Acually I plan on letting him go Vance is a knight and Harkon rarely uses their little dungeon he may be forgotten down there. And his release will have a small impact on Claude I am note pading it all now and will post tonight.

@ Deskjob ok if I play Marko translating with the prisoner to speed things along, please 

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@HolyMan:*  Sure go ahead.  You like the "word-for-word" translations anyway.  I like the "keep-it-simple" transcriptions.  For forum posting, your way is probably better.  I'd hate to have a role a sense motive check for every sentence, lolz.  XD


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks Deskjob 

@DW go ahead and post Jareth arriving at the wayhouse (outside he will see Kase and Onesimus guarding and elf. and inside he will see everyone gathered around a table deep in conversation.

@ FM Vance is going to ask if he can have your bow would that be ok I'd rather play it through then post it and wait

Sorry all getting ready for this big fight and I really want it to be over by the year 1 end date (July 1st) a mile stone as we have been at this a year, and I am hurrying things sorry if it bothers anyone will resume same speed once you all go to the elven lands. 

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Thanks Deskjob
> @ FM Vance is going to ask if he can have your bow would that be ok I'd rather play it through then post it and wait




 It's okay to ask Claude is not going to give it to him though, he protects that bow as if it were his own child.


----------



## HolyMan

Drat,  I was going to have him trade bows with the elf's. It is part of an honor bound fighting angle I was working on.

And trying to find a way to upgrade Claude's bow to a masterwork weapon. 

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Drat,  I was going to have him trade bows with the elf's. It is part of an honor bound fighting angle I was working on.
> 
> And trying to find a way to upgrade Claude's bow to a masterwork weapon.
> 
> HM




What if Claude goes down to the dungeon to give the elf back his bow and when he gets down there the elf gives him his bow and in return Claude feels that he must give him something of equal importance and gives him his bow.

Same idea, and i was already planing on doing it anyways so it becomes win win, sound good?


----------



## HolyMan

Hmm something like that may work I think even though the elf is right outside and I plan on Vance going out and having him takin back to his people. Maybe a parting gift or Claude could be the one of the ones who goes with him (Marko is a diffenet). Will work on it I need to finish this war council LOL.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

Sounds good.  I'm a little confused though.  Would you like our next IC posts to be a few hours later or in direct response to Vance's commands?

It looked open ended so I was about to post Marko's response to Vance's order to accompany the elf a distance back to his camp?


----------



## HolyMan

You should still be at the wayhouse I will post up your trip and release after everyone posts what they do in responds to the orders givin.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:
			
		

> @DW go ahead and post Jareth arriving at the wayhouse (outside he will see Kase and Onesimus guarding and elf. and inside he will see everyone gathered around a table deep in conversation.




Sure, I'll get on that. (I tend to be out of the house on Wednesday nights, from about 5 PM Pacific to 10 or so, and then I'm too tired to post, usually.)


----------



## ghostcat

If anyone is interested, I have added a photo of Mogins to Trinham's character sheet


----------



## HolyMan

Nice ghostcat but why does he have the narrow eyed evil look doesn't he like his picture taken??

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Nice ghostcat but why does he have the narrow eyed evil look doesn't he like his picture taken??
> 
> HM




Because he's a cat. They all have that look.


----------



## Gondsman

*new*

Hi, while I'm not new to pbp gaming, it has been a little while and on a site that is vastly different in organization to this.  Deskjob is an RL friend of mine, i turned him on to pbp gaming and he has recently referred me here.

I am thusfar unable to fully decode how things work around here, but Deskjob suggested i might find some action here.

Thanks to my earlier experience i have data for a number of characters previously created that could be adapted to your rules (I've been looking over the homebrew stuff, getting familiarized) though i'm not sure how you guys set that stuff up so I'll need a little hand-holding.

so anyway i'm open to fill about any role that you guys don't have locked up so far, and play in any group (with deskjob or not)


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Nice ghostcat but why does he have the narrow eyed evil look doesn't he like his picture taken??
> 
> HM




He's just thinking about what he would like to do to Lora's rat


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Gondsman said:


> Hi, while I'm not new to pbp gaming, it has been a little while and on a site that is vastly different in organization to this. Deskjob is an RL friend of mine, i turned him on to pbp gaming and he has recently referred me here.
> 
> I am thusfar unable to fully decode how things work around here, but Deskjob suggested i might find some action here.
> 
> Thanks to my earlier experience i have data for a number of characters previously created that could be adapted to your rules (I've been looking over the homebrew stuff, getting familiarized) though i'm not sure how you guys set that stuff up so I'll need a little hand-holding.
> 
> so anyway i'm open to fill about any role that you guys don't have locked up so far, and play in any group (with deskjob or not)




Firstly,  Welcome to EN world 

Here are the people that are playing:
- Lora (Human wizard, Player: Myth and legend)
- Trinham (Human battle sorcerer, Player: ghostcat)
- Oneisimus (Human fighter, Player: Sphyh) (still in ?)
- Aidan (Human monk, Player: Theroc) (still in?)
- Jareth (Human duskblade, Player: Dragonwriter)
- Marko (Human fighter, Player: Deskjob)
- Claude (Human Ranged Paladin, Player: Me)

Now then down to buissnes, as of this point I think a ranger would be the most useful but really you can do what you want. There is a house rule where you can swap out class abilities for other proper abilities, you just have to clear it with Holyman.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Frozen Messiah said:


> Firstly,  Welcome to EN world




Yes, indeed. Welcome!



> Now then down to buissnes, as of this point I think a ranger would be the most useful but really you can do what you want. There is a house rule where you can swap out class abilities for other proper abilities, you just have to clear it with Holyman.




I would second that, but also I feel the need to point out that we are completely missing a Cleric or Druid. No offense, FM, but Claude's Lay On Hands just doesn't cut it. 
We need somebody with a little more healing power, especially with the evidence of Lora nearly getting killed by a couple of arrows.

Also, Gondsman, I would suggest you read the IC threads (you can find links to them all in HolyMan's signature). It would help to give you some info on the game itself and the characters... And learn not to take anything Jareth and Lora say personally.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

Yeah!  Welcome to the party Gondsman.  Glad you decided to give the site a try out.  Woot woot.

If you have any questions for me, stick to Facebook.  I only check this site once a day anyway.  Glad you could make it.

-Deskjob  (...also known as JayF, Will, Shaun, SquallFTW, and Count ChocoFF8.)


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Dragonwriter said:


> Yes, indeed. Welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> I would second that, but also I feel the need to point out that we are completely missing a Cleric or Druid. No offense, FM, but Claude's Lay On Hands just doesn't cut it.
> We need somebody with a little more healing power, especially with the evidence of Lora nearly getting killed by a couple of arrows.
> 
> Also, Gondsman, I would suggest you read the IC threads (you can find links to them all in HolyMan's signature). It would help to give you some info on the game itself and the characters... And learn not to take anything Jareth and Lora say personally.




that is true, maybe a druid that swaps out animal companion for the rangers weapon specialization and wild empathy for track?


----------



## Gondsman

tell you the truth i'm actually thinking a little more along the lines of a Mystic Theurge (cleric/wizard).  i'm looking it over to see if there's any customization i want to go for.  I'm thinking L1clr, l2wiz, L3-4clr, L5-6wiz.

my one request, home-brew wise would be to eschew the cleric's armor and shield proficiencies (basically 3-4 feats which with my wizard spells are useless)  for the ability to use bows (martial ranged) and toughness.

I basically see the character as the guy at the back shooting arrows and slinging spells.  once i get my familiar i can use it to deliver touch spells (healing) from a distance to keep my unarmored body safe.  I'll take a weasel (for stats but for purposes of appearance call it a black footed ferret [cuter]) when the time comes.  also just for the sake of argument from here, the phb does state that the familiars abilities and such are based on my character level not my class level so my cleric and theurge levels will count.  Personality wise, think Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory, just without the complete social ineptitude (average cha, and high wis should amount to me knowing how to deal with people just largely ignoring them or not caring)



if however it is meat you are looking for, i have another character that could fill the tank/heals role


----------



## Gondsman

I've posted a first draft character sheet.  a couple of notes.

I don't want the semi-eidetic memory as a game changer sort of thing, mostly just as part of who he is.  if that is too much of a risk for you i can take it out.

Another sort of personality thing is the ability to use prestidigitation even though he isn't a wiz yet.  the idea is he uses it up each morning so it won't have any effect on my gameplay.

also, i really don't have any idea what this campaign setting is, so i'm short on knowledge of Dieties, i kind of chose domains i wanted (which does include one from the Forgotten Realms) but i will grudgingly accept the need to change based on local dieties and such.

I'm looking at this character as a healer who makes a ranged contribution to the damage total.  you guys seem to have a fair amount of meat already and both your casters use melee weapons.

i was also hoping that i could pick up a healers kit as some kind of military issue as a field medic?

anyway, have a look over it and tell me what you think


----------



## HolyMan

Hey Gondsman Welcome to EnWorld and welcome aboard, I have been terrible busy at work and trying to catch up on other threads. 

But when I saw you posted in the RG I took a look just a couple things and I need to run off to dinner will be back tonight to catch up all the threads (and could put you in pretty quick if you if we get something hammered out).

Ok real quick.
1) I think you should at least keep light armor from cleric (at least you might find elven chain where the party is headed )
2) You don't want to run the 1/2 and 1/2 rules for character that would get you a little started on your wizard half (you would have a spell book) and make things easier.
3) There is no Pantheon per se there are plenty of things I have writin' down over the years and all but I first started this game I was going to list things about the gods as characters made religion checks or ran into this cult or that. So the god of magic is what we together can bring him out to be.
4) You have listed domains Spell and Magic but your powers are listed for Spell and Healing.
5) ok wasn't really quick but may give you something to work on, agaon glad you are here hope when can get you in by this weekend.

Will be posting messages for the rest of you shortly, have to eat hungry. 

HM


----------



## Gondsman

The reason i'm ditching the armor is to avoid the spell failure chance on wizard, even elven chain would have a high enough spell failure that i'd rather avoid it (and still spell makes spells higher level).  I figure between divine shield and mage armor(which won't stack with regular armor) i can stay fairly well protected. just think of me as a wizard with healing spells.  besides, the party does not seem to be at all lacking of meat shields

i'll fix the domains, it should be spell and healing

from what i remember that half-and-half rule basically left you with a bard, but even more useless.  The way i see it, i have a spellbook, i just haven't finished figuring out how to cast my basic spells reliably (except that prestidigitation i want for story reasons) which is sort of how i see spell progression working anyway when characters are without a library or other source on long journeys (the book is full of half mastered spells and the spells i get with each level are the select ones i have mastered).  if that doesn't work, i guess i could do the half thing but i'm presently without access to those rules (DMG2 right?)


----------



## Gondsman

I've managed to catch myself up on the situation by reading the threads.  i have an idea for being written in.  

Despite being landless, my history sets me up as noble born.  a writ of nobility should be enough to get me into the manor as a guest (I'm basing this a little heavily on A Knight's Tale, but i figure if a landless jouster looking to earn a little coin can be a noble with a Writ...Noble blood is noble blood) so we say I've set out to travel and have happened upon this place at this time, and I've basically spent some time here perusing the family's library and collected historical items, maybe assisting the family in a little scribe work, (and perhaps doing the same in town, the source of the profession check monies).  

I'm less sure on the exact happenstance that brings me to interact with the party...but I'm ready to interact as soon as possible



as sort of a side note, In the forgotten realms, characters start out knowing common (i think you are using a trade tongue) and a regional language.  I see Claude is Reygurian (and mumbles unintelligibly), so it seems there can be some variability on region, and he seems to speak a regional tongue.  I'll leave it up to you the best region to be from (someplace with more nobles than land or something) Fanshaw and Reygur look to me to be best, though i guess if I were Reygurian I'd be expected to know what the heck Claude is saying all the time.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Gondsman said:


> ... though i guess if I were Reygurian I'd be expected to know what the heck Claude is saying all the time.




Quick hint: Claude uses a smattering of French. You can always copy-paste the text into an online translator, if you need the help.


----------



## Gondsman

yes, i know it is french, i chose the word "unintelligible" for that very reason


----------



## Gondsman

yes, i know it is french, i chose the word "unintelligible" for that very reason.  Anything said in French isn't worth understanding


----------



## HolyMan

So Gondsman (hmm how to shorten that?) I think the half/half levels will be alright to start, Just take the following things now and when you reach level two you get the rest from both classes:

I tried dividing it up even but it leans heavily cleric-

Prof with all simple weapons (cleric)
Prof with Light Armors (still think this is a need at low levels.. you won't have to many wizard spells you will cast in combat being a diviner and you can save a slot not needing mage armor)
Prof with Shields - lose exchange for Prof Martial Weapons Longbow & composite
Arua (cleric)
Spontaneous Spellcasting (cleric)
Alignment Spells (cleric)
Summon Familiar (wizard)
Spellbook (wizard) - But you only know half the 0-lvl and 3 1st lvl spells the rest you will learn on your way to character lvl 2
Fort: +1 base (is hallf)
Reflex: +0 base (is normal)
Will: +2 base (is half from each)
HP: = 6 + con modifier and feat Is half of each and at second level we will have your hp go 8 + con modifier + feat + (1d4 + con modifier) at character lvl 2 you can roll your wizard hp and add them to your 1st lvl as if they were max + modifiers
Feats: normal for first lvl
Skills: each class gives you 4 + int mod, so go with that 1/2 are cleric and 1/2 are wizard but their class skills are so similar it shouldn't be a problem.
Spells: this is a tricky part palyed around so you would have the same number as a first lvl character:
Cleric-
0lvl: 2 1stlvl: 1
Wizard-
0lvl: 1 1stlvl: 0
Note you get to add your bonus spells to these and that should give you 2 1stlvl cleric and 2 1stlvl wizard
No domain access saving that for 2nd lvl

Also at 2nd lvl you will get you Turn Undead ability, Scribe Scroll and pretty much be a Cleric1/Wizard1

But was thinking at second level instead of getting the two useless armor prof feats from Cleric you could take Dodge and Mobility or something similar

Let me know what you think and to play you really only need your description and personality. I have XP to be awarded this Saturday and after that I would like for you to jump in for the next go around. See if we can't have a character ready by Sat. 

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Gondsman said:


> yes, i know it is french, i chose the word "unintelligible" for that very reason. Anything said in French isn't worth understanding




Je dit le meme chose de anglais! 

But yes Claude is speaking French (specifically Cajan but whose counting) because Reygur is meant to be very much like New Orleans or Louisiana. Choose whatvere region you want but Reygur may not be the best choice due to it being fairly remote and not well liked by the other knigdoms.


----------



## Gondsman

Okay, that seems a fair way to approach it, I'll work in the edits.  

Personally, I'd rather take the risk to ensure my artistic integrity on the armor thing, I just don't see Lurik in any way comfortable in any type of armor other than some future possession of bracers of armor.  I've read the previous threads, i understand the risk involved, part of wanting the archery skills anyway is the ability to stack up on protective spells at low level and still contribute.  Realistically I'm just as poor off to start as any sorcerer or wizard i just have a couple fewer spells (and a more effective ranged weapon, and more HP, and healing spells).  

you sort of mentioned the toughness feat, are you letting me have that and keep the light armor or making me use up a feat?  if so I'd like to trade so i can keep point blank and precise shot (feats which work just as well for spellcasting as archery) 

I went diviner to get the extra spell without losing so much in the way of options.  however the more i look at it I think I'll switch to evoker, and add enchantment to the restrictions.  once i have some wizard and cleric spell action going i see myself reserving my wiz spells for damage (and possibly mage armor) and use cleric spell slots for more utilitarian spells.  once i have the scribe scroll feat i envision myself investing in scrolls of mage armor (1 hour per level) (and perhaps shield of faith).  you specified no domain spell, same for specialist? You said 2 wiz spells so i'm assuming you mean to let me keep the specialist spell

i'm not sure how the cleric aura is affected by a neutral caster.  if i have to have an aura/spell alignment, lawful fits better than any of the others.



Also, can i go ahead and start interacting?  I have an idea to add to the brainstorming session that seems to be taking place.


----------



## HolyMan

np Gm  Your character go ahead and make that swap also and finish your character.

You wish to post ... well give me a min to introduce you tonight during updating and then you can start posting.

HM


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## Gondsman

K thanks, i think I've got the sheet pretty well finished, if there's anything you'd like me to re-format just let me know.

sorry to be such a pain.


----------



## HolyMan

Np use to it, here you don't just have a group of 5-6 friends around the table you have 20+ people you play with. I just want to make sure we have a good game, I can always take things like getting the feats you want out on you in the IC 

HM


----------



## Gondsman

I know, I've been in the DM's chair in these online pbp games and i know what it's like, though i dealt with a board much more strict in it's generation rules.  I had to deal with a lot of min/maxing, though i admit i never had a player try and forgo armor protection in favor of a "vision" of their character.


----------



## HolyMan

that's what makes it fun what won't be fun for you is having 11 AC in an anti-magic zone ouch sure you don't want the studded leather?? LOL

Ok you are introduced IC and I am giving your character the red ink. 

[sblock=Lurik, Clr/Wiz Lv.1(1/0)]
could just be sblock Lurik levels are listed elsewhere
*Appearance:* Lurik. You can tell right away that this guy doesn’t go out of his way to be friendly. Tall and thin, Lurik has a semi regal and unstoppable look to him, at least in that “Haughtier that thou” sort of way, with shoulder length hair, sideburns and a goatee, neatly trimmed and maintained. Mostly traveling bareheaded he dons a wide brimmed hat in rain or bright sun. For the most part Lurik views the world with a calm disinterest, except when there is something to learn or study that gains his interest, and he keeps his communications with companions to a minimum (maximum efficiency) and typically refers to himself in the third person and uses the noble ‘we’ instead of ‘I’ but somehow manages to do it simply as a statement of fact rather than a boast. While Lurik does see himself as better than everyone he meets he has no desire nor need for anyone else to agree with him on that point. Can't wait to see you play him in the IC



		Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Lurik
[B]Class:[/B] Cleric .5 / Wizard .5
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] M
[B]Gender:[/B] M
[B]Age:[/B] 24
[B]Height:[/B] 5’11”
[B]Weight:[/B] 165lb
[B]Eyes:[/B] Piercing Blue
[B]Hair:[/B] Brown
[B]Skin:[/B] Light Tan
[B]Alignment:[/B] N (with a bit of a Lawful streak)
[B]Deity: [/B]Diety of Magic [COLOR=red]Will make a name if you wish to worship the deity or[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]do you want to worship magic itself and your divine still comes from a deity [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]you just worship his porfolio stronger is all your character your call[/COLOR]
 
[B]Str:[/B] 10 +0 (2p.)      [B]Level:[/B] 1 [COLOR=red]should be .5/.5[/COLOR]          [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 13 +1 (5p.)      [B]BAB:[/B] +0            [B]HP:[/B] 11 (1d6+2+3)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (6p.)      [B]Grapple:[/B] +0        [B]Dmg Red:[/B] 0/0
[B]Int:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30          [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0
[B]Wis:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +1          [B] Spell Save:[/B] 13+Lvl
[B]Cha:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)     [B]ACP:[/B] 0             [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%
 
          [B]Base+Armor+Shld+Dex+DB+Nat+Misc=[COLOR=lime]Total[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]     10    +0   +0  +1  +0 +0  +0  =  [COLOR=lime]11[/COLOR]
[B]Touch:[/B] 11              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10
 
         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]     1     +2           +3
[B]Ref:[/B]      0     +1     +2    +3
[B]Will:[/B]     2     +3           +5
[COLOR=red]is the +2 from the weasel??[/COLOR]
 
[B]Weapon          Attack     Damage     Critical    Range[/B]
Longbow           +1[COLOR=red](+2*)[/COLOR]         1d8        x3        100ft       
Dagger            +0         1d4       19/x2
Dagger(thrown)    +1 [COLOR=red](+2*)[/COLOR]        1d4       19/x2      10ft
[COLOR=red]* target within 30 feet[/COLOR]
 
[B]Languages:[/B] Common, High Elven, Dwarven, Draconic.
[COLOR=red]better if you took elven also they bing more into magic than dwarves and their [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]being only one dwarf the group may ever meet and he is hard to understand as [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]it is.[/COLOR]
 
[B]Feats:[/B]
  (Toughness)
  Point Blank Shot
  Precise shot
  Magical Aptitude
[COLOR=red]need to list where the feats come from please example Toughness (HB exchage)[/COLOR] 
[COLOR=red]Point Blank Shot (human bonus) etc. especially when you get the bonus when [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]you hit 2nd lvl[/COLOR]
 
 
[B]Class Features:[/B]
Cleric Aura () [COLOR=red]No arua as you have a neutral alignment and worship a neutral [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]diety/aspect[/COLOR]
Spontaneous Casting (healing)
 
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] 32       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 4/2
[B]Skills                     Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
  Concentration *^           4    +2    +2    +8
  Decipher Script^           2    +3    +0    +5
  Heal*                      2    +3    +0    +5
  Know (arcana) *^           4    +3    +0    +7
  Know (history) *^          4    +3    +0    +7
  Know (the planes) *^       4    +3    +0    +7
  Know (religion) *^         4    +3    +0    +7
  Profession (scribe)*^      4    +3    +0    +7
  Spellcraft*^               4    +3    +4    +11
[COLOR=red]looks like you listed your domain bonus but you don't get them just [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]yet[/COLOR]
 
  *Cleric
  ^Wizard
[COLOR=red]good job here thanks[/COLOR] :)
 
 
[B]Equipment:             Cost   Weight[/B]
  Longbow              75gp    3lb
  Arrows(20)            1gp    3lb
  Dagger                2gp    1lb
  Spellbook            15gp    3lb
  Spell Comp pouch      5gp    2lb
  Holy Symbol (w)       5gp    --
  Backpack              2gp    2lb
  Bedroll               1sp    5lb
  Waterskin             1gp    4lb
  Beltpouch             1gp   .5lb
  Ink (1oz vial)        8gp    --
  Inkpen                1sp    --
  Scrollcase            1gp    .5lb
  Parchment(20sh)       4g     -- [COLOR=red]20 sheets has to weigh something you can't [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]carry that much paper and it not weight I think .5lb will be about[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]right[/COLOR]
  Whetstone             2cp    1lb
  Modified Scholars outfit
      [I]Robe with belt, wide-brimmed hat, boots and cloak[/I]
 
 
 
[B]Total Weight: [/B]25lb  [COLOR=red]paper makes this 25.5[/COLOR]    
  [B]Money:[/B] 13gp 7sp 8cp (125+9([URL="http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2513118/"][COLOR=#800080]prof check[/COLOR][/URL]) start)  
 
 
               [B]Lgt    Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]     33    66    100   100   200
 
 
[B]SPELLS:[/B]
 
[B]CLERIC[/B]
  [B]Domains:[/B] Spell, Healing
  [B]Domain Powers: [/B]
       Spell -- +2 Concentration / Spellcraft  (FRCS pg64)
       Healing – You cast healing spells at +1 caster level
  Spells/Day: 
  0/  1  /  2  /  3  /  4  /  5  /  6  /  7  /  8  /  9
  3/2
 
  [B]WIZARD[/B]
  [B]Specialist Evoker (give up enchantment/necromancy)[/B]
  [B]Spells Known[/B]: 0=8  1=3
   L0
    Resistance
    Acid Splash
    Detect magic
    Read Magic
    Ray of Frost
    Message
    Open Close
    Prestidigitation
   L1
    Burning Hands
    Mage Armor
    Magic Missile
 
 
  [B]Spell Books[/B]:
 
  Spells/Day:
   0/  1  /  2  /  3  /  4  /  5  /  6  /  7  /  8  /  9 
   1/1+1
 
  Caster Save DC 13 = 3 + Spell Lvl + Bonuses
 
[COLOR=red]I have no clue how you are doing spells LOL so I won't even begin I'll just [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]copy what I wrote before:[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=red]Cleric-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 2 1stlvl: 1[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Wizard-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 1 1stlvl: 0[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=red]So with bonus for high sats and specialization you should be casting:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Cleric-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 2 1st lvl: 2[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Wizard-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 1 1st lvl: 2[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Which is one more spell than a 1st lvl character very kool[/COLOR]
 
   [COLOR=black]Turning Check: 1d20+0[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Turning Damage: 2d6+ [/COLOR][COLOR=red]don't know why this is hiding here I can bearly see it[/COLOR]

*Background:* Lurik. Lurik is essentially a low born noble, far enough away from the family title so as to not have any chance of holding it, which works out since he has no desire whatsoever to take it. His relatively high IQ and moderate wealth of his family allowed Lurik to obtain a fine education and training as a scribe which gave him enough of an income to further his studies. Lurik benefits from a semi-eidetic memory, by which he remembers anything and everything he writes down, no small asset to his studies and scribing. Lurik’s only goal in life is to further his understanding of the arcane and divine.

Largely self trained in matters arcane, martial, and spiritual, Lurik approaches all facets of his life as art forms. He begins each day with a meditative routine similar to Yoga and Tai Chi in which he practices his meager martial training, prays, and studies his spells. His skills as an archer are reminiscent of Zen archery, facing perpendicular to his target and drawing the bow with a sideways motion. The archery step is the final part of his meditation, wherein he draws the bow several times a fires mental arrows, perceiving perfection to allow for such in battle. After this he uses Prestidigitation to wash up. While his approach to his studies carries a strong Lawful scent, his views in the world are solidly neutral, going with whatever benefits him most.

If you could go into a more detailed background maybe how you first discoveried magic and what reasons draw him in to learning more I will reward you some bonus XP (Not enough to catch Deskjob LOL but they will help) I'll give you till Sat night midnight EST as that is when I will be giving out XP and putting you in the Roll Call. 




		Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Cogs
[B]Race:[/B] Weasel (Black Footed Ferret)
[B]Size:[/B] Tiny
[B]Gender:[/B] M
[B]Alignment:[/B] N (with a bit of a Lawful streak)
 
 
[B]Str:[/B] 3  -4            
[B]Dex:[/B] 15 +2            [B]BAB:[/B] +0            [B]HP:[/B] 5  (11/2)
[B]Con:[/B] 10 +0            [B]Grapple:[/B] -17       [B]Dmg Red:[/B]  0/0
[B]Int:[/B]  6 -2            [B]Speed:[/B] 20          Climb 20ft
[B]Wis:[/B] 12 +1            [B]Init:[/B] +1          
[B]Cha:[/B]  5 -3            [B]ACP:[/B] 0             
 
          [B]Base+Armor+Shld+Dex+DB+Nat+Misc=[COLOR=lime]Total[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]     10    +0   +0  +2  +0 +1  +2  =  [COLOR=lime]15[/COLOR]
[B]Touch:[/B] 14              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 13
 
         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]     2     +0           +2
[B]Ref:[/B]      2     +2           +4
[B]Will:[/B]     2     +1           +3
 
[B]Weapon          Attack     Damage     Critical[/B]
Bite               +4         1d3-4      x3          
 
 
[B]Languages:[/B] 
 
[B]Feats:[/B]
  Weapon Finesse
 
 
[B]Special Attack:[/B]
  Attach
 
 
 [B]Special:[/B]
  Alertness
  Improved Evasion
  Share Spells
  Empathic Link
 
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] 5        Uses Master's Ranks When Better
[B]Skills                     Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
  Concentration *^           4    +0    +0    +4
  Decipher Script^           2    -2    +0    +0
  Heal*                      2    +1    +0    +2
  Know (arcana) *^           4    -2    +0    +2
  Know (history) *^          4    -2    +0    +2
  Know (the planes) *^       4    -2    +0    +2
  Know (religion) *^         4    -2    +0    +2
  Profession (scribe)*^      2    +1    +0    +3
  Spellcraft*^               4    -2    +0    +2
 
[COLOR=red]You can share skills I didn't know that?[/COLOR]
 
 
  Balance                    0    +2    +8    +10
  Climb                      0    +2    +8    +10   
  Hide                       1    +2    +8    +11
  Move Silently                 4    +2    +2    +8
  Spot                       3    +1    +0    +3
 
 
  *Cleric
  ^Wizard
 
               [B]Lgt    Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]    7.5    15   22.5  22.5    45
Tiny Quadruped (x.75)

 
[/sblock]

*Well that is all I can find at the moment I usually catch stuff in game as well. What I really would like is for you to make a homebrewed area on your sheet stating the swaps you made from your cleric class. that will let me know if a year from now I think why doesn't he have that I can't remember. Trust me it happens alot. *

HM


----------



## Gondsman

My comments/fixes in cerulean

[sblock=Lurik, Clr/Wiz Lv.1(1/0)]
could just be sblock Lurik levels are listed elsewhere
I figured on getting the nitty gritties at the start and using the other spot for character level (to help with effects like my familiar's abilities that don't discriminate between classes) I'll fix it if you don't like that idea.
*Appearance:* Lurik. You can tell right away that this guy doesn’t go out of his way to be friendly. Tall and thin, Lurik has a semi regal and unstoppable look to him, at least in that “Haughtier that thou” sort of way, with shoulder length hair, sideburns and a goatee, neatly trimmed and maintained. Mostly traveling bareheaded he dons a wide brimmed hat in rain or bright sun. For the most part Lurik views the world with a calm disinterest, except when there is something to learn or study that gains his interest, and he keeps his communications with companions to a minimum (maximum efficiency) and typically refers to himself in the third person and uses the noble ‘we’ instead of ‘I’ but somehow manages to do it simply as a statement of fact rather than a boast. While Lurik does see himself as better than everyone he meets he has no desire nor need for anyone else to agree with him on that point. Can't wait to see you play him in the IC



		Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Lurik
[B]Class:[/B] Cleric .5 / Wizard .5
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Size:[/B] M
[B]Gender:[/B] M
[B]Age:[/B] 24
[B]Height:[/B] 5’11”
[B]Weight:[/B] 165lb
[B]Eyes:[/B] Piercing Blue
[B]Hair:[/B] Brown
[B]Skin:[/B] Light Tan
[B]Alignment:[/B] N (with a bit of a Lawful streak)
[B]Deity: [/B]Diety of Magic [COLOR=red]Will make a name if you wish to worship the deity or[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]do you want to worship magic itself and your divine still comes from a deity [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]you just worship his porfolio stronger is all your character your call[/COLOR]
[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]the PHB actually refers to clerics without specific deities so I'm cool with a similar arrangement[/COLOR]
 
[B]Str:[/B] 10 +0 (2p.)      [B]Level:[/B] 1 [COLOR=red]should be .5/.5[/COLOR]          [B]XP:[/B] 0
[B]Dex:[/B] 13 +1 (5p.)      [B]BAB:[/B] +0            [B]HP:[/B] 11 (1d6+2+3)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (6p.)      [B]Grapple:[/B] +0        [B]Dmg Red:[/B] 0/0
[B]Int:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]Speed:[/B] 30          [B]Spell Res:[/B] 0
[B]Wis:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]Init:[/B] +1          [B] Spell Save:[/B] 13+Lvl
[B]Cha:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)     [B]ACP:[/B] 0             [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%
 
          [B]Base+Armor+Shld+Dex+DB+Nat+Misc=[COLOR=lime]Total[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]     10    +0   +0  +1  +0 +0  +0  =  [COLOR=lime]11[/COLOR]
[B]Touch:[/B] 11              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10
 
         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]     1     +2           +3
[B]Ref:[/B]      0     +1     +2    +3
[B]Will:[/B]     2     +3           +5
[COLOR=red]is the +2 from the weasel??[/COLOR]  [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]yes[/COLOR]
 
[B]Weapon          Attack     Damage     Critical    Range[/B]
Longbow           +1[COLOR=red](+2*)[/COLOR]         1d8        x3        100ft       
Dagger            +0         1d4       19/x2
Dagger(thrown)    +1 [COLOR=red](+2*)[/COLOR]        1d4       19/x2      10ft
[COLOR=red]* target within 30 feet[/COLOR]  [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]I'm used to applying those things as they turn up, but if you'd prefer...[/COLOR]
 
[B]Languages:[/B] Common, High Elven, Dwarven, Draconic.
[COLOR=red]better if you took elven also they bing more into magic than dwarves and their [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]being only one dwarf the group may ever meet and he is hard to understand as [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]it is.    [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]I thought I already did take elven as a language, are high elven and elven really different languages?[/COLOR][/COLOR]
 
[B]Feats:[/B]
  (Toughness) - [I]homebrew exchange[/I]
  Point Blank Shot - [I]level 1
[/I]   Precise shot - [I]racial bonus[/I]
  Magical Aptitude - [I]homebrew bonus[/I][COLOR=red][/COLOR]
 
 
[B]Class Features:[/B]
Cleric Aura (none) 
Spontaneous Casting (healing)
 
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] 32       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 4/2
[B]Skills                     Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
  Concentration *^           4    +2    +0    +6
  Decipher Script^           2    +3    +0    +5
  Heal*                      2    +3    +0    +5
  Know (arcana) *^           4    +3    +0    +7
  Know (history) *^          4    +3    +0    +7
  Know (the planes) *^       4    +3    +0    +7
  Know (religion) *^         4    +3    +0    +7
  Profession (scribe)*^      4    +3    +0    +7
  Spellcraft*^               4    +3    +2    +9
[COLOR=red]looks like you listed your domain bonus but you don't get them just [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]yet  [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]you said spells, can you see why I was confused[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]?[/COLOR]
 
  *Cleric
  ^Wizard
[COLOR=red]good job here thanks[/COLOR] :)
 
 
[B]Equipment:             Cost   Weight[/B]
  Longbow              75gp    3lb
  Arrows(20)            1gp    3lb
  Dagger                2gp    1lb
  Spellbook            15gp    3lb
  Spell Comp pouch      5gp    2lb
  Holy Symbol (w)       5gp    --
  Backpack              2gp    2lb
  Bedroll               1sp    5lb
  Waterskin             1gp    4lb
  Beltpouch             1gp   .5lb
  Ink (1oz vial)        8gp    --
  Inkpen                1sp    --
  Scrollcase            1gp    .5lb
  Parchment(20sh)       4g    .5lb [COLOR=red]20 sheets has to weigh something you can't [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]carry that much paper and it not weight I think .5lb will be about[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]right[/COLOR]
[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Oddly enough assuming standard copy paper of about 11x17 sheets at 10 grams a piece, half a pound is remarkably accurate, more accurate at least the the rules as written.[/COLOR]
  Whetstone             2cp    1lb
  Modified Scholars outfit
      [I]Robe with belt, wide-brimmed hat, boots and cloak[/I]
 
 
 
[B]Total Weight: [/B]25.5lb  [COLOR=red]paper makes this 25.5[/COLOR]    
  [B]Money:[/B] 13gp 7sp 8cp (125+9([URL="http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2513118/"][COLOR=#800080]prof check[/COLOR][/URL]) start)  
 
 
               [B]Lgt    Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]     33    66    100   100   200
 
 
[B]SPELLS:[/B]
 
[B]CLERIC[/B]
  [B]Domains:[/B] Spell, Healing
  [B]Domain Powers: [/B]
       [COLOR=Black]Spell -- +2 Concentration / Spellcraft  (FRCS pg64)
       Healing – You cast healing spells at +1 caster level[/COLOR]
  Spells/Day: 
  0/  1  /  2  /  3  /  4  /  5  /  6  /  7  /  8  /  9
  3/2
 
  [B]WIZARD[/B]
  [B]Specialist Evoker (give up enchantment/necromancy)[/B]
  [B]Spells Known[/B]: 0=8  1=3
   L0
    Resistance
    Acid Splash
    Detect magic
    Read Magic
    Ray of Frost
    Message
    Open Close
    Prestidigitation
   L1
    Burning Hands
    Mage Armor
    Magic Missile
 
 
  [B]Spell Books[/B]:
 
  Spells/Day:
   0/  1  /  2  /  3  /  4  /  5  /  6  /  7  /  8  /  9 
   1/1+1
 
  Caster Save DC 13 = 3 + Spell Lvl + Bonuses
 
[COLOR=red]I have no clue how you are doing spells LOL so I won't even begin I'll just [/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]copy what I wrote before:[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=red]Cleric-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 2 1stlvl: 1[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Wizard-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 1 1stlvl: 0[/COLOR]
 
[COLOR=red]So with bonus for high sats and specialization you should be casting:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Cleric-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 2 1st lvl: 2[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Wizard-[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]0lvl: 1 1st lvl: 2[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red]Which is one more spell than a 1st lvl character very kool[/COLOR]
  [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]that's what i have written.  I find your method condensed but hard to read.  we'll make it a separate addendum.[/COLOR]
   [COLOR=black]Turning Check: 1d20+0[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Turning Damage: 2d6+ [/COLOR][COLOR=red]don't know why this is hiding here I can bearly see it[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue] because like[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]the domains it doesn't exist yet[/COLOR]

*Background:* Lurik. Lurik is essentially a low born noble, far enough away from the family title so as to not have any chance of holding it, which works out since he has no desire whatsoever to take it. His relatively high IQ and moderate wealth of his family allowed Lurik to obtain a fine education and training as a scribe which gave him enough of an income to further his studies. Lurik benefits from a semi-eidetic memory, by which he remembers anything and everything he writes down, no small asset to his studies and scribing. Lurik’s only goal in life is to further his understanding of the arcane and divine.

Largely self trained in matters arcane, martial, and spiritual, Lurik approaches all facets of his life as art forms. He begins each day with a meditative routine similar to Yoga and Tai Chi in which he practices his meager martial training, prays, and studies his spells. His skills as an archer are reminiscent of Zen archery, facing perpendicular to his target and drawing the bow with a sideways motion. The archery step is the final part of his meditation, wherein he draws the bow several times a fires mental arrows, perceiving perfection to allow for such in battle. After this he uses Prestidigitation to wash up. While his approach to his studies carries a strong Lawful scent, his views in the world are solidly neutral, going with whatever benefits him most.

If you could go into a more detailed background maybe how you first discoveried magic and what reasons draw him in to learning more I will reward you some bonus XP (Not enough to catch Deskjob LOL but they will help) I'll give you till Sat night midnight EST as that is when I will be giving out XP and putting you in the Roll Call. i'll give it a shot, kinda wanted to remain mysterious and wasn't aware of a xp bonus




		Code:
	

[B]Name:[/B] Cogs
[B]Race:[/B] Weasel (Black Footed Ferret)
[B]Size:[/B] Tiny
[B]Gender:[/B] M
[B]Alignment:[/B] N (with a bit of a Lawful streak)
 
 
[B]Str:[/B] 3  -4            
[B]Dex:[/B] 15 +2            [B]BAB:[/B] +0            [B]HP:[/B] 5  (11/2)
[B]Con:[/B] 10 +0            [B]Grapple:[/B] -17       [B]Dmg Red:[/B]  0/0
[B]Int:[/B]  6 -2            [B]Speed:[/B] 20          Climb 20ft
[B]Wis:[/B] 12 +1            [B]Init:[/B] +1          
[B]Cha:[/B]  5 -3            [B]ACP:[/B] 0             
 
          [B]Base+Armor+Shld+Dex+DB+Nat+Misc=[COLOR=lime]Total[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]     10    +0   +0  +2  +0 +1  +2  =  [COLOR=lime]15[/COLOR]
[B]Touch:[/B] 14              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 13
 
         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]     2     +0           +2
[B]Ref:[/B]      2     +2           +4
[B]Will:[/B]     2     +1           +3
 
[B]Weapon          Attack     Damage     Critical[/B]
Bite               +4         1d3-4      x3          
 
 
[B]Languages:[/B] 
 
[B]Feats:[/B]
  Weapon Finesse
 
 
[B]Special Attack:[/B]
  Attach
 
 
 [B]Special:[/B]
  Alertness
  Improved Evasion
  Share Spells
  Empathic Link
 
 
[B]Skill Points:[/B] 5        Uses Master's Ranks When Better
[B]Skills                     Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
  Concentration *^           4    +0    +0    +4
  Decipher Script^           2    -2    +0    +0
  Heal*                      2    +1    +0    +2
  Know (arcana) *^           4    -2    +0    +2
  Know (history) *^          4    -2    +0    +2
  Know (the planes) *^       4    -2    +0    +2
  Know (religion) *^         4    -2    +0    +2
  Profession (scribe)*^      2    +1    +0    +3
  Spellcraft*^               4    -2    +0    +2
 
[COLOR=red]You can share skills I didn't know that?[/COLOR]
  [COLOR=Cyan]PHB says you use the familiar's ranks or the masters, whichever is higher[/COLOR]
 
  Balance                    0    +2    +8    +10
  Climb                      0    +2    +8    +10   
  Hide                       1    +2    +8    +11
  Move Silently                 4    +2    +2    +8
  Spot                       3    +1    +0    +3
 
 
  *Cleric
  ^Wizard
 
               [B]Lgt    Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]    7.5    15   22.5  22.5    45
Tiny Quadruped (x.75)

[/sblock]


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@Gondsman:*  Elven and High Elven are two separate languages in this campaign.  You might want to ditch Dwarven and just learn both.  Woot woot!  (I can't what for a taste of Sheldon Cooper RP.  Lolz.)


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, I was wondering about the “inheritance” thing going on with Jareth right now… I’ve been doing the whole “not a Lord” thing for a while, with your NPCs still calling me such and wanted to explain my position and ask a question or two.

In medieval Europe, title and lands were passed from father to first-born son and then down the first-born son’s line, to each of his sons. Jareth, being the second son, would have little to nothing of the family estate (as I recall, second sons typically joined the military). The second son would only inherit if the first-born son died without any heirs. I was just basing my character’s reactions on what I know of history. Do you want to handle things differently in your campaign world? I’m fine either way and just wanted to explain and check.


----------



## Gondsman

Okay, i've gotten a somewhat more in depth history, its the best i can do at this point.


----------



## HolyMan

@DW Vance is a second son as well and thinks himslf a lord I guess it all has to do with prospective. And if he keeps calling you lord long enough you may just become one (look at the character Perrin in The Wheel of Time series LOL).

@Gm background looks great will add 250xp to your Rg post (that's 255 to start) Also I would say you are from Fanshaw it is full of merchants and nobility and I like the tourneys you talked about that could be the national past time there. And thanks for the hombrewed sblock.

HM


----------



## ghostcat

DW.

I think you are confusing Title and Rank. 

Title is like Vance's brother been Baron Harkon.

Rank is a lot more complicated and has to do with being heir or younger son. Still Jareth is a noble and is most certainly entitled to a Courtesy title.


----------



## Dragonwriter

I never have read the Wheel of Time series... It's another one on my to-read list.  Somewhere after Pern and the Deryni and Thomas Covenant...

Honestly, Jareth doesn't really want the title of Lord, however cool I think it would be. He doesn't want to get all the special attention that tends to come with nobles, and he sees it as another connection to his father.



ghostcat said:


> DW.
> 
> I think you are confusing Title and Rank.
> 
> Title is like Vance's brother been Baron Harkon.
> 
> Rank is a lot more complicated and has to do with being heir or younger son. Still Jareth is a noble and is most certainly entitled to a Courtesy title.




Title and Rank come hand in hand. They were each connected to the inheritance, which went to the first son. A second son would only get recognition if his older brother died, without heirs. Courtesy titles were non-existent. We are talking about the Dark Ages, after all.  
(If you can show me something (non-fiction, of course) that the second son got something big when his older brother was still alive, and capable of taking the family's estate duties, go ahead and post it/let me know, as it would be much appreciated. Right now, I'm basing it off my old medieval studies and what I've learned with my historical recreation group.)

Jareth would be afforded some stuff growing up, as he would still be cared for as a noble's son, but apart from family connections, he really wouldn't be given anything afterward. On occasion he could get a favor from his brother, but that would not be common.


----------



## Gondsman

so do i add the xp to my own sheet and you just keep track in notes somewhere to keep me honest?


----------



## Myth and Legend

It is my understanding that the second, third and so on brother received his family name, the family crest and the opportunity to become the heir apparent of his noble house and estate. He does not, however, recieve any of the lands or estates unless so granted by the current head of the noble house.

Hence it was quite common for third or fourth sons to take up the knightly profession, as their nobleborn titles granted them both the funds to purchase good armour, weapons and horses, hire a squire and page, and of course, protect them in case of defeat (noble knights were almost always ransomed if captured as hostages, instead of simply put to the axe like the levy)

So the lord of Surrey is "My Lord Surrey" but his brother is still Ser James Surrey for example. And should he marry he would continue his family name.


----------



## HolyMan

Gondsman said:


> so do i add the xp to my own sheet and you just keep track in notes somewhere to keep me honest?




No I just need to remeber you have a base XP of 255 that I will add to this Sat should be no problem I am forgetful but not that bad. you should add your tital xp together after every XP posting which I do the 1st and 16th of every month.

@DW well remember also that having some lords stay at your home is an honor and Harkon being out of the way doesn't get that honor often. So he will lord you mostly because of in his eyes your are of noble blood and that demands respect.

Now when you get back to camp you will be regular old Jareth again. 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @DW well remember also that having some lords stay at your home is an honor and Harkon being out of the way doesn't get that honor often. So he will lord you mostly because of in his eyes your are of noble blood and that demands respect.
> 
> Now when you get back to camp you will be regular old Jareth again.
> 
> HM




Okay. That'll be just fine. And until then, Jareth will keep denying his family's title, since he doesn't believe/doesn't want to believe his older brother is dead.


----------



## Gondsman

Here's a question for you.  I've noticed in my experience with PBP that most people post their characters in third person, would anyone have a problem with me posting in 1st person?


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Gondsman said:


> Here's a question for you. I've noticed in my experience with PBP that most people post their characters in third person, would anyone have a problem with me posting in 1st person?




Not one bit, I just do it because it's the best way to stave off insanity


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience May 1st- May 15th*



		Code:
	

ghostcat                            380xp
Myth and Legend                     530xp
Dragonwriter                        470xp
Deskjob                             230xp
Gondsman                            110xp
Frozen Messiah                      410xp

 
Looks like at the end of the month we may have two new level ups, ghostcat and Deskjob.

Wow Deskjob 11 months to get to level two, hey wait that is actually better than most games I am in now. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

I'm confused Deskjob, (nothing new there ) in your post are you playing up still that you don't want the Treylor to know that you know their language?? Or did I not specifi well enough they were Treylor hmm... I did just say they were elves opps. 

Now that I think about it that will work. Let me go back and post.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

@HM:  The Treylor understand us, there was no reason to speak in their tongue.  The elven prisoner demonstrated his understanding of our language well enough.  When Claude suggested Marko speak to them in High Elven, Marko knew their was no need.  They understand him perfectly.

However, the Treylor don't know that Marko can understand them.  The prisoner was never alerted to this as of yet.  It could be a literal lifesaver should we get captured.  Lolz.

I can edit if needed.  -Deskjob


----------



## HolyMan

No sorry if it came off that the prisoner understood you (because he did not), he did understand the body language and such.

The Treylor have been out of contact with humans for over 600 years, and they think humans uncivilized barbarians it has kind of led to them not speaking common. At least not by the common soilder.

I took over Marko and had him speak to the elf for Vance also so he knows you know how to speak High Elven.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

@HM:  Ah, I misunderstood that.  Thanks for clarifying.  I will tweak Marko's previous response Claude to better facilitate this new relationship.  Good thinking.


----------



## Myth and Legend

OK long post but i've been away. HM, you have to approve my lvl 4 level up. OH, and LOL at the Elves surrounding the party with drawn bows  Here is why (i really like this guy):

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GHzSg5P-Jw]YouTube - Four more points about bows[/ame]


----------



## Gondsman

Lora's relevant rolls: Knowledge: History (16),  Nobility and Royalty (13), Local (9)

Craft: Drawing (18) - for the map.



ML, you may want to double check that +7 Modifier (same as me at L1 with 16 INT) i'm pretty sure they should be +11



Do we need to roll to see of Lora also read the Art of War while she was on posting vacation?  I hate to do this, but reading her background, I wonder where she got this.  barely city militia trained, and focused on arcana, it almost seems like she'd need a Knowledge (war) check or something.  anyway, that's my take on what the characters bring to the table, and I always gave bonus xp to people who played their character as designed without plugging in new stuff.




and cool vid by the way, but i was under the impression that this was Fantasy, not Reality.  It's like magic, one of the things these films always get wrong is magic, it doesn't really exist so i don't know why it is in there at all.

Childish yes, but i think i make my point.


----------



## HolyMan

think your approval is  here  I think (I know I do) people miss a post if more than one person posts by the time you get back around to checking.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@deskjob: Thanks sorry I will try harder to get what is going on across

@Gondsman: Lora has always been a tactician (since post one) I believe somewhere she poted she read lots of books and some had to deal with her milita training. 

And remmeber a PCs background can't have every detail, so new things will arrive and so long as they add to your character as a whole (and not make them little pieces glued together) it is all good.

ML has plans to go Eldritch Knight or some similar warrior/wizard combo so Lora nowing tactics is part of who she is.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

> Lora has always been a tactician (since post one) I believe somewhere  she poted she read lots of books and some had to deal with her milita  training.
> 
> And remmeber a PCs background can't have every detail, so new things  will arrive and so long as they add to your character as a whole (and  not make them little pieces glued together) it is all good.
> 
> ML has plans to go Eldritch Knight or some similar warrior/wizard combo  so Lora nowing tactics is part of who she is.



 *nods*

Also, the modifier... Umm yeah i haven't updated my skills in the RG i guess. 4 at lvl 1 + 3 from lvl 2, 3 and 4 and +4 INT modifier = 11. Hmm, I'll edit the correct stats accordingly.

There is no Knowledge: Military, otherwise i'd have taken it and would have had Lora get that +11 modifier to it. I have been accused in metagaming in the past, I simply view this as flavor. If i hadn't told you quys where the quote was from i _highly_ doubt you'd have guessed it. Again, as i have said before (but you haven't read every single post in the multiple threads of this year-long campaign for sure) - Lora doesn't have experience, she has just read books. It so happens that her tutor had various books on warfare apart from the arcane stuff. Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty and Knowledge: History both represent this. Reading battle reports for the combat during the Hundred Years War today IRL would count as researching history, no? Yet if you really liked reading these things, and suddenly ended up in medieval times, you could use that knowledge to your advantage, if you are smart enough.

The bows and fantasy - I like fantasy, I just don't like changing the laws of physics and when something backfires to just say "but it's fantasy!". Of course I'm not expecting everyone who posts here to have knowledge on medieval warfare and the like, hence i just point stuff out OOC or in Lora's thoughts, and you guys can use it as you will. For example, when she was looking at Claude leering over the stream, she though how if he got his bow wet it'd be unusable. I'm not expecting FM to know or think about this, but since Claude has the experience, he decided to use it his post later on and say he was careful not to get the weapon wet. So this has been working out great so far IMO.


----------



## Gondsman

Myth and Legend said:


> (but you haven't read every single post in the multiple threads of this year-long campaign for sure)




Actually I have at very least skimmed over every single post, yours are definitely more skim that read but then most of your posts have a lot of yelling at people and other stuff that i found irrelevant to the adventure.  



I can poke little holes in his logic all day.  I think it totally within the realms of fantasy and physics that you could hold a bow back for a little while if you did it often enough (physics also knows nothing of the physical capabilities of Elves), and yes magic does beat physics, that is what magic is.  My point is we don't play this game to correctly reenact the past, and corndogs and Rolexes at the renaissance fair don't bother me in the least.

and dang the fact that text doesn't carry emotion, I'm really not trying to rag on you here it's just my feelings on the matter.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@Myth:*  I really like these videos you find.  I feel smarter about history already.  Nice work.

*@Gondsman:*  Thanks for sharing your feelings.  It always helps to understand where someone is coming from.  Both, ooc and ic.

*@HolyMan:*  Thanks for clarifying HM.  I do my best to remember anything I write down in my posts.  Since you RP'ed Marko for a small time, I must not have made a mental-note of that conversation.  Hehe.  I add titles to all my posts so I can have an easier time backtracking to find specific topics.  Nice job.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks Deskjob I will be sending you translations soon as i find my notes,  

I try nd be historic as possible only for the simple reason it makes it easier to understand/picture. But tehn most of my history comes from movies and it seems they are wrong (at least about bows anyway LOL)

oh ML I hope that guy doesn't go see Robin Hood. 

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

> Actually I have at very least skimmed over every single post, yours are  definitely more skim that read but then most of your posts have a lot of  yelling at people and other stuff that i found irrelevant to the  adventure.




[sblock=Gondsman]As a matter of fact, all of my posts are quite relevant to the character i am roleplaying. I have not once strayed from the image of Lora i had conjured when i joined this game, nor have i stopped her growth in the intended direction. Every word, thought and action has been carefully considered from the heroine's POV.

Advancing the adventure is the DM's job, not mine. In fact, if you had not skimmed but bothered reading all those things you found irrelevant, you would see her growth and the mixed feelings she has been having. 

Trinham and Claude disliked Lora severely at first, and yet recently they both found merit in the girl, and that is testament that I'm not writing this character only for my won amusement and with a disregard to the story, as obviously the other players are enjoying her as well. I as a player enjoy FM's, Ghostcat's and Dragonwriter's characters as well, even though Lora is not going to stop yelling at them any time soon.

That is the last i will say on the matter.[/sblock]


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## Gondsman

i've moved my comments with ML to a more private forum. 


Note the gray _italic_ text is internal dialog for the benefit of the game not the characters.


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## HolyMan

So noted, but do you give away what you are thinking through facial expressions and body language?

i.e. where were your eyes when you wondered what Lora might be like in bed?? LOL

HM


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## Gondsman

the smirk is the only visual cue and my eyes are no-place in particular when it takes place.


btw, Myth, I really like the "slick" though it has nothing at all to do with how i imagined the character.


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> I try nd be historic as possible only for the simple reason it makes it easier to understand/picture. But tehn most of my history comes from movies and it seems they are wrong (at least about bows anyway LOL)




Uh, yeah, that's not such a great idea. 

Movies tend to get a lot of stuff wrong, as far as the actual methods go. Hollywood particularly likes the idea of a sword either being super-light and about one pound, or super-heavy at twenty pounds. Totally wrong. Same goes for most of their "armored knights." Heavy armor wasn't nearly as constrictive as movies make it seem. Yeah, it was heavy and tough, but if you fall over, you can get back up and keep fighting (unlike the "turtle effect" in movies, which is the case with _jousting_ armor, but not _fighting_ armor).

There are a few movies that get the stuff well, but most of them mess it up.


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## HolyMan

Thanks DW know how to make a guy feel dumb, LOL

I get most of my armor ideals from the old Excaliber movie (with Patrick Stewart before Star Trek but still bald?//go figure). They seemed to have the right of it. they moved around just alittle bit slowly.

HM


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@Frozen:*  Sorry if we posted together.  I didn't want to edit my post cause I figured it still worked well with yours.  No biggie.  I didn't even realize you posted at all for quite awhile.  But, hooray for placeholders!  

*@Gondsman:*  A more private forum for conversing with Myth?  I invite you to join a fun game and you start picking fights?  *tisk tisk*

Your making me look bad bro...  I hope your comments are only _jesting_ in nature.  If so, then just ignore this.  I approve of brotherly love in the form of teasing.  If not, then I will digitally slap you.  *slap slap slap*  (that third slap was just for fun...  Hehe...)


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## Myth and Legend

> btw, Myth, I really like the "slick" though it has nothing at all to do  with how i imagined the character.



 Hmm yes but that is how Lora is percieving him at the moment. She has a rather twisted view of strange men.

DW is totally right in the points he makes. Holy Man, if you want to do some off-the-clock reading to help with your gaming and DMing, go here.

This article is a good start. It has a link to the swords weight issue (point 6)


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Thanks DW know how to make a guy feel dumb, LOL
> 
> I get most of my armor ideals from the old Excaliber movie (with Patrick Stewart before Star Trek but still bald?//go figure). They seemed to have the right of it. they moved around just alittle bit slowly.
> 
> HM




Not my intent, I assure you.

Excalibur is one of the best for armored combat, though they are a bit on the slow side. 

A pretty good fight scene is also the last one in Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves (the fight between Costner/Robin and Rickman/Nottingham), though that is only with longswords, no armor. 

The work they did with Viggo Mortensen (Aragorn) in LotR is pretty good (but Legolas and Gimli's action is generally over-the-top, for realism).


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## Dragonwriter

Myth and Legend said:


> DW is totally right in the points he makes. Holy Man, if you want to do some off-the-clock reading to help with your gaming and DMing, go here.




Thank you. I should hope I'm right, as I do historical combat as a hobby. 

Good recommendation on the ARMA website. Those guys do a ton of research and are extremely well-versed on the subject of medieval warfare. I actually used them and their website as a source for a research paper I wrote on the evolution of weaponry through the Middle Ages.


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## Gondsman

Dragonwriter said:


> (but Legolas and Gimli's action is generally over-the-top, for realism).



Of course it's not realistic, they are an elf and a dwarf (which are not real) so how can we expect them to operate the same way humans do?


This is my philosophy on the matter, in full so you can see where i'm coming from.  This is not meant to be argumentative it is just the basis of the logic of my argument.  *Please do not take this as an attack on any of you.*

If you look at the Many Worlds Theory (basically every time a decision could have gone another way it did in another dimension) if you go to a dimension where the change was far back enough, the whole of human development has completely altered what we would perceive as normal.

We judge something like LotR as not behaving the same as our world, but their history is totally different.  They have had to deal with orcs, trolls, and evil magicians (if not far worse), they have had magic, elves, dwarves, all sorts of things that we have not had in our history.  At the very worst, we've had psychos, bears, alligators, and sharks.  This constant state of war has left them in what we would refer to as the medieval age for millenia (far longer than we experienced it), so they've had a lot of time to develop in and evolve to best suit that particular situation.  

We can't assume that Dwarves and Elves have the same musculature and limits that we do.  We can't assume that they make their bows and armor the same way we do just because our technology is better (modern science still can't recreate Greek Fire, yet we assume we are smarter than the people who did create it) the fact of the matter is that we aren't the masters of the physical universe _*yet*_ so we can only base our judgments on our own historical record (which often has huge chunks missing) and ability to recreate it in modern times (the above GF example relates how limited that can be)

Robin Hood is just a story, so it is really up to the director to decide to make it true to period or a true fantasy (with fantastic occurrences) If they try to tell you it is period or historical and it is not....then we have a right to complain, but if they chose to tell a fantasy story as a fantasy then complaining just shows your own ignorance to the concept of fantasy.

On the same note, LotR is not a period story, it is a story in a fantastic world that happens to have humans and a geographical location with Earth in the name.  If one wishes for it to agree fully with our recreation of our past, we must remove elves, dwarves, orcs, trolls, and magic as actual existing in the world, in which case it becomes the story of a LARPing group.



So, in short, because these worlds are not exactly like ours, and because our own picture of our history has flaws that are constantly being redefined, I see it as* plausible* that in the course of their development the world has changed, that the physical stature of people has changed and the nature of materials (think composites) has changed from what we understand them to be, and culturally people have not developed the same so words and meanings won't be the same as they were for us (if they really were what we thought they were).  This is my logical basis for allowing Fantastic occurrences in Fantasy worlds.


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## Gondsman

Cool website, by the way, thanks for the link


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## Myth and Legend

If you guys want good fighting scenes watch Rob Roy. Although the hero holds his 16th century claymore like a rake, the villain is quite good with the smallsword. His acting is superb as well - he was nominated for an Oscar for this role.

Gondsman i can see your point about LOTR, and in general yes i agree - if Elves can be immortal they can have stronger backs and shoulderplates due to thousands of years worth of archery, and not get deformed by it etc.

What i dislike in movies is the pompous Holywood flashiness and eyecandy, that completely screws up even basic historical accuracy to please fifteen year olds. I've read the LOTR books and there you get a lot more mythology, stories, songs and a lot less flashy action.

In general, when i see someone using two swords because it's so much "cooler", or wielding a huge double-bitted axe in combat, or cutting trough fullplate with a longsword, or drawing the bow using arm strength alone i just sigh and try to bear it. When the movie has too much of this though It just ruins it for me.

BTW a good historical medieval movie is The lion in winter. Although there's virtually no fighting there, the actors are good and the setting is very accurate as far as the medieval castle is concerned.


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## Gondsman

To tell you the truth i prefer the flashiness and eye-candy.  I hate to say it but my favorite "period" film is probably the worst offender ever, but they did it entirely on purpose.  The film is.....A Knight's Tale.  Their purpose was to present the situation in a way that better related to modern people.  Replacing music, clothing, even word choice to reflect just how cool the tournaments and their participants were at the time to the people of that time.  In my mind the Fantasy RPG world should in some way reflect that attitude, because for the most part, that Olde Timey stuff just isn't as exciting to us modern folk.

While I do appreciate effort put into historical accuracy, I can also appreciate the Artistic License of the director.  Doesn't mean I don't complain when I disagree with the Artistic Interpretation......


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## Myth and Legend

To each his own i guess.


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## Dragonwriter

Gondsman said:


> Of course it's not realistic, they are an elf and a dwarf (which are not real) so how can we expect them to operate the same way humans do?
> <snip>
> So, in short, because these worlds are not exactly like ours, and because our own picture of our history has flaws that are constantly being redefined, I see it as* plausible* that in the course of their development the world has changed, that the physical stature of people has changed and the nature of materials (think composites) has changed from what we understand them to be, and culturally people have not developed the same so words and meanings won't be the same as they were for us (if they really were what we thought they were).  This is my logical basis for allowing Fantastic occurrences in Fantasy worlds.




My point in marking their actions as over-the-top was to show that they are not a good basis for proper combat. Shoving an arrow through a bad guy's eyeball and pulling it back out, then shooting it (however AWESOME I think it is) doesn't work. Climbing up the Oliphaunt (again, however AWESOME I think it is) is an insanely stupid, crazy thing to do and would be much more likely to get you killed.

Personally, I do like big special effects and flashy moves, but when they're trying to be passed off as "proper" or used as an example of the same, I have a problem. In particular, spins, jumps and other "acrobatic" moves... get you killed, not win the fight. It may look really cool and fun, but it is not how to fight and live to fight again.


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## Gondsman

Dragonwriter said:


> Shoving an arrow through a bad guy's eyeball and pulling it back out, then shooting it (however AWESOME I think it is) doesn't work. Climbing up the Oliphaunt (again, however AWESOME I think it is) is an insanely stupid, crazy thing to do and would be much more likely to get you killed.




you mean get a Human killed right?  Tolkien's elves might as well be superman compared to humans.

i do have to ask though, how much actual sword fighting experience do you have killing people who do stupid acrobatic moves?  That is an interesting opinion.  I do agree that some of the fancier moves do occur in opportune moments for the opponent to simple skewer his foe...but to completely generalize that such moves have no place whatsoever in real battle?...

It's not that I'm saying i have better credentials that say it is good, it's just that I'm a little slower to put such things down when i don't have the credentials.


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## Dragonwriter

Okay, I’m just going to ditch the elves vs. humans angle, as that is going absolutely nowhere…

However, I have been a member of a historical group and taking part in their combat practices and tournaments and wars for nearly 3 years. And I fight with people who have been doing the same stuff for 15+ years, and know I can definitely rely on their expertise. 

I have seen plenty of people try spinning, jumping, etc. in both tournament and mass combat… It is almost a clean sweep of bad endings. Imagine, if you will, facing a single foe and each of you is armed with a longsword. Your opponent swings, you parry, and he tries to get more force into his strike by spinning around and throwing another attack. There’s a problem with his idea… He just turned his back on you and left it wide open. Dead.

Now that’s with a slash-oriented longsword. It’s even worse with the stab-oriented rapier. There are times when I nearly cringe at some of the moves I see in rapier combats in the movies. The Three Musketeers (in nearly all its movie incarnations) is a particular offender. They focus more on tumbling around the room and each other than actually stabbing the other guy. Sure, it looks cool, but you’re not doing anything constructive while you look cool.

Let’s move on to a battlefield. You are standing shoulder-to-shoulder (or very nearly) with rank upon rank of soldiers. For argument’s sake, let’s say everyone is armed with a sword (unlikely, as spears were far more common, but this is just hypothetical). You meet the enemy force, you try a spinning attack. You knock your allies’ strikes off, their weapon out of their hands, their helm, etc… All before actually getting to your original target.

Now, it _is_ possible to attempt these, more likely in a tournament setting where you wouldn’t be actually killed (most likely), but they’re much more likely to result in your own failure or demise.

And don't get me wrong, I like entertaining combats, but when people start thinking of some of the movie stuff as accurate, I have to speak up about just how wrong it is.


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## HolyMan

So what's the debate here?

realism in film vs making a buck?

Because you know that is the only reason they do what they do. Realism would be real boring as most sword fights take all of two swings to end.

Look at 13th Warrior the end fight was close to realism but they had to slow it down or it would have been over in about 3 seconds. LOL

Don't fault no one for making a buck and D&D is no different, why do you think they have the tumble skill and all, for dramatic combat so you can play out what you see on the big screen. So we will have to take what we can and keep it as real as we can, we might go LotR once in a Blue Moon. But I can promise you we will never go Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.  

HM


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## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

_"...But I can promise you we will never go Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon."
  --HolyMan_

Oh thank goodness.  You have no idea how happy that makes me.  *pats his brow*  Whew, dodged the bullet there didn't we...

*@Frozen:*  I was hoping Claude would post again before we returned to the manor.  I'm not waiting on Robert, thats for sure.  If not, thats fine too.  It makes sense Vance and Co. would have finished their conversation on strategy before we managed to get back.  ...Even riding as fast as we would have been.  Lolz.  XD.  I'm looking forward to getting back and setting up for the defense...


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## Gondsman

Okay, so you do have some experience on the matter, If these bad endings happen with people who are considered the masters of their fighting style I concede on all points.  However, the idea of a master toying with someone of less experience....sounds plausible (as far as the musketeers {who never actually fire a musket} goes)

And if most of that argument is simply settled on the idea that people thing it is accurate, I concede.

And that Crouching Tiger stuff is totally real okay


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## Myth and Legend

Hehe Dragonwriter basically said what i would have. As far as rapier combat is concerned, the guys over at ARMA seem to like a movie called The Duelist (although i can't seem to find it anywhere).

Real combat (as they say) is a lot more waiting, testing your opponent, measuring his reaction and reach etc. than blindly throwing attacks at him and doing flashy spins. And while we are on the subject of flashy spins, as Gondsman wanted to know why we are so sure they cannot be used in combat. It's a simple matter of expereince and quickness. A longsword has 16 angles of attack, being a double edged sword. Every earnest practitioner of WMAS i have talked to (that's basically ARMA guys) say they practice every day, and that they have a routine that usually starts with the basic cuts, thrusts and flourishes.

In the end, when you are in combat, you would want to use the simple, shortest line of attack that you have practiced hundreds of thousands of times (and thusly you can do faster, more accurately and rely on your spinal cord rather than your brain on reaction) than some fancy acrobatics that you have done far less times during practice.

Sure a master vs a newbie will be able to show off, but that's not the question here. When the opponents are of equal skill, every bit of advantage counts, so the quckest attack, coming from the most precise hand in the shortest amount of time.


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## Gondsman

Is this the movie?


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## Myth and Legend

Not sure, never saw it.. Might be though.

Wow, i'm so dumb, i didn't know copying spells took so long.. It's a full day of research per spell and then an additional 24 hours to copy it down in the book... Ch, HM Lora would obviously know this, should i edit my post or what?

BTW i did some reading here now that you let me know


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## Gondsman

don't forget the outrageous 100g/page cost, it's like buying potions


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## Frozen Messiah

Deskjob said:


> *@Frozen:* I was hoping Claude would post again before we returned to the manor. I'm not waiting on Robert, thats for sure. If not, thats fine too. It makes sense Vance and Co. would have finished their conversation on strategy before we managed to get back. ...Even riding as fast as we would have been. Lolz. XD. I'm looking forward to getting back and setting up for the defense...




I was planning on doing that right about now.


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## HolyMan

Looks virbatem what I read in the PHB (btw check out my status ) go ahead and edit your post Lora would know that she can't start right away.

he 100gp per page I will for go for let's say well I don't know yet you guys are behind on average gp/equipment and I am working on it (check out Jareth's new cloak )

The material (special inks, quills and such) will be supplied by Skazul for this so we can get you a few extra spells, and Lurik can get his other three.

HM


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> (check out Jareth's new cloak )




Not quite mine, remember?  Of course, it also would've been better if Jareth knew the meaning of "stealth." 

And congrats on the PHB2. Now you can finally see the whole text on what I'm playing. And I might be able to use some of those PHB2 spells, like Kelgore's Fire Bolt.


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## Myth and Legend

Grats on the books HM! Now if you only got Unearthed Arcana, Spell Compendium and Complete: Warrior, Arcane, Divine, Scoundrel and Mage... Oh and Races of Stone and Dragon Magic and... wait. There's no end to those books is there...  But seriously UA/SC/Complete* are the most important IMO.

And don't get Libris Mortis because... Well because i haven't given up on VOTD and i can't have you choosing a class that permannetly slays Undead can I?  (just kidding)


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## Gondsman

i have a question for you HM reguarding a possible other homebrew item (because i can't find a similar itemin books) for my character.  Rather than picking up Mobility at L2, how about a homebrew feat we'll call Divine Mage that allows me to stack cleric and wizard levels to determine caster level for spell effects and caster level checks.  I say this because if I do alternate levels up to 6th before moving on to the PRC I'll be L5 before i can cast a MagicMissile with two bolts, and it will decrease my healing contribution (at L6 CLW is still only 1d6+3)  Anyway, thought I'd present it now and give you a chance to mull it over.  I get the idea from feats like Ascetic Mage that allow you to stack monk/wizard levels to determine Unarmed attacks.  in the end it only amounts to a +3 bonus to my Caster level for each class


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## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> Not quite mine, remember?  Of course, it also would've been better if Jareth knew the meaning of "stealth."
> 
> And congrats on the PHB2. Now you can finally see the whole text on what I'm playing. And I might be able to use some of those PHB2 spells, like Kelgore's Fire Bolt.




Thanks and no way you are getting a d6/lvl instant hit save for half spell, think it needs tweaked to either a range attack no save, or ranged touch attack still with save. Some of the spells they come up with are truly bizzare. 

And the closk is only till I can figure out something else. and you better not let the elves catch you better stealth up. 



Myth and Legend said:


> Grats on the books HM! Now if you only got Unearthed Arcana, Spell Compendium and Complete: Warrior, Arcane, Divine, Scoundrel and Mage... Oh and Races of Stone and Dragon Magic and... wait. There's no end to those books is there...  But seriously UA/SC/Complete* are the most important IMO.
> 
> And don't get Libris Mortis because... Well because i haven't given up on VOTD and i can't have you choosing a class that permannetly slays Undead can I?  (just kidding)




I have UA as a pdf was trying for 1ste and got 3e instead.  And I plan on bring th collect back up somewhat but some of those books I never used at all. 

I just want to RP in VotD my build will not be heavy take on the bad guys that is why Thok is around.



Gondsman said:


> i have a question for you HM reguarding a possible other homebrew item (because i can't find a similar itemin books) for my character. Rather than picking up Mobility at L2, how about a homebrew feat we'll call Divine Mage that allows me to stack cleric and wizard levels to determine caster level for spell effects and caster level checks. I say this because if I do alternate levels up to 6th before moving on to the PRC I'll be L5 before i can cast a MagicMissile with two bolts, and it will decrease my healing contribution (at L6 CLW is still only 1d6+3) Anyway, thought I'd present it now and give you a chance to mull it over. I get the idea from feats like Ascetic Mage that allow you to stack monk/wizard levels to determine Unarmed attacks. in the end it only amounts to a +3 bonus to my Caster level for each class




You know what I was thinking what about the Divine Feats that let you trade in Turn Undead attempts for abilities like Sacred Healing. As a DM I should make encounters that give the players a chance to use all their abilities but I can't even promise every other encounter will have undead in it, so you may want to look for a way to get soem use out of those attempts you have first. And what about adding your ideal to the Mystic Theruge class as a bonus shouldn't they combine the abilities of both when you "ascend " to being one.

Class Ability: A 1st lvl Mystic Theruge adds +3 to his total caster lvl for any spell he casts. 

Or something similar.

HM


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> Thanks and no way you are getting a d6/lvl instant hit save for half spell, think it needs tweaked to either a range attack no save, or ranged touch attack still with save. Some of the spells they come up with are truly bizzare.




Uh, if that's the way you see Kelgore's Fire Bolt, I'd be interested in how you look at the more-powerful Fireball. Or even plain old Burning Hands. The "Fire Bolt" is single-target and can only deal 5d6, maximum. And they get a Reflex save for half... Which is generally not-as-good as a ranged touch attack. 

If you take a look at destructive/combat-oriented spells, you'll notice the parallel concerning attack/save; if you roll the attack, there is no save and if there's a save, you don't roll an attack. That's how it goes for the vast majority.

(By the way, if you think that is overpowered, don't buy Spell Compendium. Tons of stuff in there will make you go insane, in the bad way.)


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## Gondsman

If we make it a feature of the PRC then i still have the problem all the way through L6, not until L7 do i get that stuff.  Here's one thing to think about.  At L2 I'll be CL1 in both classes.  some spells i can cast from both classes, detect magic being one, but instead of now having double the duration, i have the same old lame duration.  while yes it would make sense for that to be a class feature, the lame part is working all the way to L7 being lame at both arcane and divine magic..

As for turning, with my charisma, turning is going to be lame anyway so maybe I should look at some of that.

in Complete divine they have the Practiced spellcaster feat that gives you +4(no more than HD) CL in a class.  If we split that between the two and then made the class feature to be +1 to each that would lessen the suck.


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## HolyMan

@DW: but at 5th lvl you can cast that spell how many times?? 5 or 6 at 5d6 each and fireball you only would have 1 or 2. I believe you should use spells like magic missile, burning hands, and fireball and the like as the base for all other spells. And see where a new spell falls into place.

Nothing is to overpowered it can't be changed to compensate, add a lvl, add an attack roll, or change the damage die. And you have a more balanced spell.

I feel they never play test these new spells at high lvls to see what would happened if a powerful caster had access to the spell and things like meta-magic feats and such. Cast a quicken firebolt and a regular one in the same round for auto hit 10d6, save for half?? just adding an attack roll makes that a little better.

@Gondsman: that feat you suggested and the change sound good, also you need to suck before you can be the ultimate caster  that's why I was saying lvl 7 to take that but the feat will give you something till you hit your PRC, but let's wait to get it till lvl 4 that way your max of +2 will be np because each class will be second lvl and it gives you something to look forward to. (just save one of those cleric swaps to use at lvl4)

hmmm... your turn undead is weak huh?? where is my elven vampire stats?? LOL

HM


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## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> @DW: but at 5th lvl you can cast that spell how many times?? 5 or 6 at 5d6 each and fireball you only would have 1 or 2. I believe you should use spells like magic missile, burning hands, and fireball and the like as the base for all other spells. And see where a new spell falls into place.
> 
> Nothing is to overpowered it can't be changed to compensate, add a lvl, add an attack roll, or change the damage die. And you have a more balanced spell.
> 
> I feel they never play test these new spells at high lvls to see what would happened if a powerful caster had access to the spell and things like meta-magic feats and such. Cast a quicken firebolt and a regular one in the same round for auto hit 10d6, save for half?? just adding an attack roll makes that a little better.




Fire Bolt is only slightly better than Burning Hands for damage, and it only affects one target (rather than Burning Hands‘ area effect). And my spells/day may beat out a Sorcerer (eventually), but my available choices are considerably less. I learn 1 spell/level, flat, from a very small list. Nothing more. A Sorcerer (never mind a Wizard) will always have more spell-based options than I. I can’t even channel Fire Bolt.
(By the way, I can’t quicken either. I cast spontaneously, so any Metamagic makes my casting time a whole lot longer. The only thing that comes close to Quicken is my Class Feature: Quick Cast, which is a limited number of times/day.)

[sblock=Quick Comparison between Fire Bolt and a few other spells]
If you want to compare Kelgore’s Fire Bolt to Burning Hands and MM (and I can‘t learn MM), like you mentioned, here’s an evaluation.

Vs. Magic Missile: FB is capped at 5d6 at level 5 (average damage 20) while MM is capped at 5d4+5 (average damage 17). FB can be halved by a Reflex save (or negated by evasion). MM can only be stopped by SR, and doesn’t even require an attack roll. MM can also be spread out among multiple targets.

Vs. Burning Hands: BH is capped at 5d4 (average damage 12), so it is weaker. At first glance. But BH can be used to catch several foes, increasing the damage dealt. Reflex save is a wash on this one.

Vs. Color Spray: Color Spray can completely disable targets, in an area. 5d6 damage is pitiful in comparison to ending the fight.

Quicken: A Wizard (and ONLY a Wizard) could quicken this, for a 5th-level spell slot. Waste of a slot. It would be much better spent on a buff like Mage Armor or an actual 5th-level spell. Never mind that Duskblades can’t quicken at all…

Then there are buff, debuff, and instant-kill spells, all of which leave this in the dust. For example: Polymorph, cast by a 7th-level Wizard, shared with his familiar to have BOTH of them become 7-headed Hydras. Even Enlarge Person (another 1st-level) could easily be more effective for/on Jareth, increasing his STR, reach, etc.

Honestly HM, if you’re concerned about balanced spells, just read through Core before you get scared of a little 1st-level 5d6 w/Ref half.
[/sblock]

Also, making it a ranged touch attack would actually favor me (high BAB, decent DEX, possibility of crit). Even a 20th-level spell caster can only get a 1st-level spell DC up to 25, at best, and that can still be beaten by a  negative Ref save on a natural 20. And Jareth isn’t going to focus like that.

…I’m sorry if this sounds like I’m getting a bit riled up. This just strikes me as a knee-jerk “no.”


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## Myth and Legend

At the later stages of the game, "blasting" (aka damage spells) becomes much weaker than control/save-or-die spells.

That being said, if one really wanted to buff these mediocre spells (IMO at least), then one can use Metamagic Rods + metamagic feats. At Epic levels one can quicken spontaneously (or "instaquicken") spells at no cost of sell slots. But by that time I'd rather do something like "Quickened Disintegrate + Heightened Disintegrate" rather than "Crappy damage spell+other crappy damage spell".

The reason being that most direct damage spells are capped for DMG D. But even the ones that are not cannot harm lategame targets quick enough.

In Jema'ls Legends my Wizardress used something along the lines of 2 or 3 Meteor Swarms, in conjunction with a Rod of Metamagic Empower + a very buffed (admixtured, thesis etc.) Cone of Cold, only to take about 1/2 of the HP of the lvl 20 Bear Warrior/Warshaper/Barbarian enemy.

She'd have been much better off to cast Gate + Bigby's something Hand and just throw him out of the battlefield. Or cast Imprisonment, or... you get my drift. Even for direct damage spells, Orbs are much better as they do not roll against SR.


----------



## HolyMan

I think we are looking at this from different perspective. Me as the DM and what I should allow in the game, and you the player what your character should be allowed to do. (oh and I forgot about Quicken as I have allowed sorcerers to take it in the past, I mean you give up a huge slot just to cast a 1st lvl spell quickly, but it works had a guy who played a magic missile machine gun once). 

If I allow Firebolt in as is then anyone else can take it (man I wish it were duskblade only, why don't they have spells all their own?). And then you encounter a basilisk and POW dead on turn two before it got to go twice, because two people casted firebolts at it to lossened it up for the others. 

The core rules are the bases and what you describe are your views it seems and of course there's something to be said for creative thinking (two 7 headed hydra's ouch), but I see nothing unbalanced there as they are the scale and other spells should be judged around them. How you use them is a reflection on you not on the spells themselves.

But these other books I feel throw in spells to fill up space without regard to what it does to the game long term. Once you can quicken at 5th lvl you could possible take out said basilisk by yourself on turn one. Not something I believe a 5th lvl character should be able to do automatically.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

Yeah, I might want to take the spell. There are others, but my spell list is rather limited, and more damage-dealing seems to fit Jareth’s style better than buff spells.

If you decide to nerf/ban the Fire Bolt, I can’t argue with that, but I’m trying to present information to show that it is fine, as-is. A better comparison for the Fire Bolt is a bad Shocking Grasp with a little range. 

Let me go back to your first comment on KFB…



			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> no way you are getting a d6/lvl instant hit save for half spell




Fireball is instant-hit, save for half, d6/level. Yes, I know it is higher-level (which you seemed to use as a basis for dismissing that argument), but it is the same principle. Burning Hands is instant-hit, save for half, d4/level. Both of those are area-based spells, hitting multiple people. Fireball can hit everyone in a 20-ft. _radius_. That's about 40 squares, all of which could be filled with people. Burning Hands could hit 8-9 people, dealing up to 5d4 to each. That could incinerate a group of conscripts on the front lines. And that's a Core 1st-level spell. In comparison, KFB is pathetic, since it can only hit one little person and they can dodge it. 

You have a point on the “ganging up on the monster.” But that is only if multiple people learn the spell, we actually get our spells off (which I might not bother to do, if I can get in close), the critter fails its’ save and we hit it hard enough to kill it. Not a good line of thinking, for us. And what's to stop us using a different spell? Scorching Ray or Magic Missile, perhaps? Even Burning Hands... They will have the same outcome.
(One more reason a group of weaker critters is better than one strong critter.)

And I strongly suggest you re-think that point of view on “Core=Balance/measuring stick.” Druids and Clerics can out-fight the Fighter and Barbarian ANY and EVERY day of the week. Wizards and Sorcerers can end a fight with a single spell, even at low levels (Sleep and Color Spray remain top-dog). The Polymorph example I pointed out is a clever use of the spell, most certainly, but it suddenly puts the Wizard as a combat beast, making the poor melee-oriented schmuck cry himself to sleep. The Cleric can cast Find Traps and suddenly, no need for a Rogue (Divine Power makes Fighter obsolete, also). The Druid can summon an army at any time of day, many of which have special abilities that will make the combat classes just sit in the corner and wait.
(By the way, each of these spells I mention is Core, and available at level 7 or less. Higher levels get worse, and it's only through some serious work that I'm able to actually challenge the 14th-15th level party for whom I DM.)
This is without even the slightest optimization. A little effort on the part of the person making the character and it becomes an even wider power gap. (I dare you to go look at the old threads on the WotC d20 Character Optimization board. Start a thread here on EnWorld, even. I won't comment, I promise. Just look at other people's opinions concerning this issue.)

And if you think PH2 has unbalanced content… Trust me on this, don’t buy any more books, because the power level only ramps upwards.


----------



## HolyMan

Dragonwriter said:


> Yeah, I might want to take the spell. There are others, but my spell list is rather limited, and more damage-dealing seems to fit Jareth’s style better than buff spells.




So you want to play a mage who can fight not a fighter who can cast?



> If you decide to nerf/ban the Fire Bolt, I can’t argue with that, but I’m trying to present information to show that it is fine, as-is. A better comparison for the Fire Bolt is a bad Shocking Grasp with a little range.




Not a comparison because shocking grasp can fail meaning 0 damage and you have to be in melee range and worry about a full attack back at you. You miss with the firebolt you get to do a little damage still and your opponent has to come to you before they can attack once, maybe even giving you an AoO to boot.



> Fireball is instant-hit, save for half, d6/level. Yes, I know it is higher-level (which you seemed to use as a basis for dismissing that argument), but it is the same principle.




Fireball is instant hit whomever is in the area, meaning no control and could hit your allies. It is lvl 3 making it that much more costly to empower and use other meta magic feats. At 5th lvl an average mage may take two fireballs (total 10d6) and must forgo all other spells he could have used that day. so if no combats for the day then he wasted the slots. But firebolt he would get to cast 9 times if he wanted (total 45d6). This is the reason fighters become obsolete. 



> Burning Hands is instant-hit, save for half, d4/level. Both of those are area-based spells, hitting multiple people. Fireball can hit everyone in a 20-ft. _radius_. That's about 40 squares, all of which could be filled with people. Burning Hands could hit 8-9 people, dealing up to 5d4 to each. That could incinerate a group of conscripts on the front lines. And that's a Core 1st-level spell. In comparison, KFB is pathetic, since it can only hit one little person and they can dodge it.




Not taking anything away here if the situation is right both those spells would excel over firebolt. 



> You have a point on the “ganging up on the monster.” But that is only if multiple people learn the spell, we actually get our spells off (which I might not bother to do, if I can get in close), the critter fails its’ save and we hit it hard enough to kill it. Not a good line of thinking, for us. And what's to stop us using a different spell? Scorching Ray or Magic Missile, perhaps? Even Burning Hands... They will have the same outcome.
> (One more reason a group of weaker critters is better than one strong critter.)




It would only take two people to have you at 5th lvl casting multiply spells to ruin an encounter quickly. Things like Burning hands make it so you have to have the right situation (not going to happen every time) And Scorching ray can miss = 0 damage, Magic Missile only gets stronger over time you have to be 9th lvl before you can use it to maxium effect. That is another part of my distaste it max's out early. 




> And I strongly suggest you re-think that point of view on “Core=Balance/measuring stick.” Druids and Clerics can out-fight the Fighter and Barbarian ANY and EVERY day of the week. Wizards and Sorcerers can end a fight with a single spell, even at low levels (Sleep and Color Spray remain top-dog).




WE need to have something as a base what do you suggest we use to see where a new spell lies in relation to others that have gone before it? I believe that is an untrue statement, you may be thinking Clerics and Druids and low level Wizards are good for at least one or two encounters but after that they are usually spent. And at first level sleep does rule but after those first two you better hope there is some fighters in the party. And find traps can a Cleric cast it in every room of a typical dungeon? I say typical but it seems here on the boards it doesn't run like that you should have between 7-8 encounters before retiring for the night.



> The Polymorph example I pointed out is a clever use of the spell, most certainly, but it suddenly puts the Wizard as a combat beast, making the poor melee-oriented schmuck cry himself to sleep. The Cleric can cast Find Traps and suddenly, no need for a Rogue (Divine Power makes Fighter obsolete, also). The Druid can summon an army at any time of day, many of which have special abilities that will make the combat classes just sit in the corner and wait.




Again you are thinking along the lines of a typical encounter and casters having full spells, then I would say yes to all the above but spells run out and a sharp sword and full plate do not. 



> (By the way, each of these spells I mention is Core, and available at level 7 or less. Higher levels get worse, and it's only through some serious work that I'm able to actually challenge the 14th-15th level party for whom I DM.)
> This is without even the slightest optimization. A little effort on the part of the person making the character and it becomes an even wider power gap. (I dare you to go look at the old threads on the WotC d20 Character Optimization board. Start a thread here on EnWorld, even. I won't comment, I promise. Just look at other people's opinions concerning this issue.)




No need for that we can work this out. I'm coming from the point of view that core is bases and all spells are made from them. The firebolt is not a fireball because it can only effect one person, you can't say it only has 5d6 max damage because a 10th lvl mage could cast up to 8 -10d6 fireballs or 16 - 5d6 firebolts so that is the same amount if damage. Just the fireballs give you more room for other spells. Now firebolt wouldn't be bad if it weren't so similar to a spell two lvls higher than it. Scorching ray is one lvl higher but with the chance to miss and not getting full effect till 11th lvl (instead of 5th), I can't see why this couldn't either be 2nd lvl or be made into a ranged touch attack?



> And if you think PH2 has unbalanced content… Trust me on this, don’t buy any more books, because the power level only ramps upwards.




I use to have things like complete arcane and complete divine but never used the spells within because there were better core spells out their. Now your case is a little different, being as how you have a limited spell list and about a 1/3 of each per lvl is not standard. You seem to like this inferior spell alot because you believe it is all you can get, which leads to my question:

Is the only reason you wish to have the firebolt is to have some ranged capablity when needed? Because if that's the case I would say take magic missile instead lot better spell  (I know it isn't on your list are we playing by the book?) It will also help out in game RP wise which I would find most enjoyable.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

This is going nowhere... So forget it. I'll just take a different spell at my next level. KFB was just the first that came to mind and fit Jareth's concept. And I like fire. 

If you want to alter it to a ranged touch spell, that's fine with me. Just bear in mind that changing it to be so would make the spell better, not weaker. Touch attacks are hard to miss. Saves are easy to beat.

Thankfully, there are other spells out there. KFB just fit Jareth best, from his list.


----------



## Gondsman

HM i hate to say this but I have to side with DW on this one. like you yourself said "spells run out."  Do you really expect us to believe that it is outside the power of the DM to create encounters that will challenge even the most min/maxed character?  If you are really so worried about him casting the spell 9 times (like catching 9 guys in a fireball) put a limit on it 2/day or something and if you find out that it is in fact impossible to manipulate the game (the very job of the DM) such that it remains a challenge then you make changes later.

Now part of my view on this game (which is the stance most emphasized by 4e) is that we are heroes.  Every once in a while we should get to just nail a monster to show off, that is what heroes do.

Let me introduce you to Nakor Han, Priest of Lathandar talk about an overpowered cleric.  I had all 9 levels of him in an adventure with one L5 a couple of threes and ones.  After Every battle he'd automatically heal everyone up to full.  And yet, he wouldn't cast an actual spell in battle (or use his /day items) even to save his life.  Drove me crazy, even verses undead that were too powerful to turn, all he did was try to turn them, when a searing light or two would have reduced them all to so much powder.

My point is, that you aren't the authority on how DW will play his character, he is.  He may get into a battle where he could blast away all 9 of those, but maybe he's smarter than you and actually realizes that "spells run out" and won't blow them all on one guy.  And if he does start to wade through people like that, blasting every enemy to ash, throw us a fire resistant baddy once in a while.  Just because you would abuse the spell doesn't mean he would, and just because you can doesn't make it smart.

I see no balance issue with the spell.  That's coming from the mouth of a DM who has dealt with munchkins on a regular basis.


----------



## HolyMan

@DW about that spell list it seems small to me. I hate things that make every other character of a class just like the other guy. All of them taking the same options and such, but will see what happens later.

@Gondsman good points but in pbp like I said before it is usually one encounter, RP, one encounter, RP/rest. Making it easy to use everything in one encounter but...


*I think we have dragged this out long enough, take whatever the book says I'm sure it has been properly playtested (like polymorphed hydras were) and should fit nicely into the norm. *

But remember you have options to switch out things and change the class, in this instance I was hoping for a change in the spell list so when you met some elven duskblades they would be like_ "That's not possible how can he do that, it must be his human blood. Maybe we were wrong to keep the secerts to ourselves they seem even able to surpass us."_

But I'll figure something else out.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

@deskjob: Great post very visiual and wrote quite well didn't know what to do about your character and Gondsmans' do to you not being "Heroes of the Western Woods" but you helped out there thanks

@DW good post I saw you keeping Jareth in character there. (good 'ol CHA 8  ) remember in the game you only gave the manor about a days notice that the Treylor were on their doorstep. But we have been playing this game for three months. So a quick plan seems right at this moment and time. 

@ghostcat were was Mogins during dinner LOL 

O.k. everyone we are on a last month of our first year starting tommorrow, and here's somethings I have been thinking of.

1) I'm going to have a last post for this OOC end of June and start a new Off to War OCC (Year 2) at that time.
2) The last post will try and be a recap of what went on before game wise and give some links to "key info" the group has learned.
3) This battle is going to be a major one and I am working on rules to put in the houserules for it. This is going to be the first in a series of like battles, and is one of the reasons I started this type of campaign.
4) Spliting the group - I am having a tough time thinking of a way to get Trinham, Claude, and Lora (or even a reason to go) into the elven forest. But I have noticed those three characters will all be lvl4 and the others will be about lvls 2-3 so was thinking of having one group return to the army when they arrive and having the others go ino the forest. This could change, I would like a few more new recurits of lvl 1 to join the forest group if I did split everyone up. 
5) PrC development: 
@ML - don't you need to face an enemy in combat and not use spells - this would be the time. 
@FM - Going to introduce you to the order soon (something major about to happen IC first ) and then will work on the RPing of getting into your PrC. 
@ Gondsman - when you take that feat a little RP as to the combining of your two spell like abilities?? I don't know maybe use the living force called magic or whatever you decide bring about this change in you.
@ anyone else who wants a PrC just let me know.

Other thoughts are out there just can't think on them now.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience May 16th - May 31st*



		Code:
	

[U]Player                                   XP[/U]
Gondsman                                365
Deskjob                                 285
Dragonwriter                            475
ghostcat                                655
Frozen Messiah                          385
Myth and Legend                         450

 
*CONGRATS Deskjob and ghostcat on your LVL ups *

ghostcat knows how this is done but Deskjob you will need to make a lvl up post in the RG and could you add a link to that character class in your character post for easy referal thanks.

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Could you explain exactly where everyone is positioned and the basic plan in OOC HM, please?


----------



## HolyMan

NP FM let's see:

on the left you would have Jareth and 10 men at arms.

the center would have Claude, Lora, Lurik, Marko, Trinham along with 30+ viliiagers.

And Robert and the other ten men at arms would be on the right.

Vance, Brend, Skazul, Kase, and Onesimus would be the advancing party.

Lot of people/NPC in this and is why I need to work on some postig rules to make this easy/speedy posting.

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> NP FM let's see:
> 
> on the left you would have Jareth and 10 men at arms.
> 
> the center would have Claude, Lora, Lurik, Marko, Trinham along with 30+ viliiagers.
> 
> And Robert and the other ten men at arms would be on the right.
> 
> Vance, Brend, Skazul, Kase, and Onesimus would be the advancing party.
> 
> Lot of people/NPC in this and is why I need to work on some postig rules to make this easy/speedy posting.
> 
> HM



  Thanks, so it is basically a pincer movement but in defensive style to attempt to flank the opposition. Alrighty then!


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## Gondsman

so just to be clear, we are holding the fort while the "advancing party" is the group going around to take out the leadership?


----------



## HolyMan

Frozen Messiah said:


> Thanks, so it is basically a pincer movement but in defensive style to attempt to flank the opposition. Alrighty then!




Yep and there will be two smaller (movable barricades) in front of the men at arms.

@Gondsman you have the right of it you stand and hold against the 100+ elves that will be marching towards you and the strike team will go and get all the glory. j/k LOL

HM


----------



## Gondsman

well guys, here's for hoping that these 100+ elves are 4e minion quality.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Gondsman said:


> well guys, here's for hoping that these 100+ elves are 4e minion quality.




WHERE IS YOUR SPIRIT!!! We few have been brought together for this moment. Whether it is consequence or fate it matters not but what matters are our actions this day, this bloody day. These elves are marching on to our land with the idea of combat, no massacre, and they expect us to be an easy fight. The elves have been around for a long time and know everything that has come before them but that doesn't matter when something new comes at them. They will come at us with bows and we will catch their arrows with ingenuity. They will come at us with sword, and we will break them with determination. They will come at us with spell, and we will walk through them with hope. This day we live the next we die, so let's show them something they will never forget... 

I think I may use that for the rousing speech how does that suit everyone’s fancy?


----------



## Gondsman

*snore*........huh! what? oh yes your suit is very fancy, yes.

lol


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Gondsman said:


> *snore*........huh! what? oh yes your suit is very fancy, yes.
> 
> lol




does that mean it is bad?


----------



## Deskjob

*Awww Yeahhh*

Oh no brotha'-bear.  Oh no brotha'-bear.  That be just the thing we need.  It will certainly solidify the "Heroes of the Western Wood" for the history books.  All we have to do is survive after a speech like that and we will be gooooood.  Awww yeahhhh...


----------



## Gondsman

I'd have to read it all the way through to comment on that.


----------



## Gondsman

I realize I'm finagling big time on the idea that I've heard about Lora making herself a bigger target through the grapevine, but I think it works with the rising competition between our personalities, Lora, intelligent, bossy and hot headed, and Lurik, intelligent and wise, cool, and largely uncaring.

If you wish HM I can do away with it.


----------



## Myth and Legend

You want more ammunition in the argument me thinks  Also, Lurlik doesn't seem very wise, wise people can empathize with others and understand why they act the way they do. At least in my opinion.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

I have no doubt Professor Lurik is _capable_ of empathy.  Perhaps he simply _chooses_ to disregard it in favor of a more...  unique personality.  A more argumentative personality.  Haha.

Whatever is happening IC.  I don't care.  I'm shelfing Marko until the next morning.  When the butt-kicking starts,  Yarrggghhh!!!

_*runs around the apartment making combat with the air*_

I'll let the more "interesed" people do that planning... "thing".  In my mind it is already done.

*Marko's Uber Battlefield Plan of Epic Victorious'ness'ness:*
*walk to field*
*take cover behind wooden thingie*
*wait until pointy-eared monkeys charge*
*smash pointy-eared monkeys*
*repeat step four until done*
*serve victory at room temperature*


----------



## Gondsman

Empathy is Charisma, IMO, Lurik is not strong in such

We have both created "know it all" characters with high opinions of themselves, there is going to be friction. 

And Marko, aren't you supposed to be the meat shield, not cowering behind the barrier like myself.  You are supposed to give me cover not the other way around


----------



## Myth and Legend

I'm sure HM won't really kill us off. Pretty sure... I mean he probably won't... Yeah.


----------



## ghostcat

HM:
I've put Trinham's Level 4 updates in the RG. HP roll double usual this time. Wow.


----------



## Gondsman

Okay, I'm going to put this all here since it's all OOC.

For the battle tomorrow I prepare

WizL1 Mage Armor

ClL0 2xcreate water (most likely to sacrifice as cure minor to save people dying)

ClL1  Bless, Magic Weapon

My strategy

The creation spell will last 8 hours so I will cast that as soon as we get to the spot we plan to defend from.

Just before the battle begins, Cast Mage armor (dur 1 hour)

1st round of battle cast bless (dur 1 minute)

2nd round cast magic weapon on my bow (dur 1 minute)

Then I start attacking.

other than the 2 CmW I'll rely on my Heal Skill.  Until I have full L1 complements of spells I can't really save anything for healing.


----------



## HolyMan

Gondsman said:


> I realize I'm finagling big time on the idea that I've heard about Lora making herself a bigger target through the grapevine, but I think it works with the rising competition between our personalities, Lora, intelligent, bossy and hot headed, and Lurik, intelligent and wise, cool, and largely uncaring.
> 
> If you wish HM I can do away with it.




Uncaring seems a bad trait for a healer, or is healing just a bonus ability not a key ability for Lurik?



Myth and Legend said:


> I'm sure HM won't really kill us off. Pretty sure... I mean he probably won't... Yeah.




Not the plan hope IC (invisible castle) got my memo. 



ghostcat said:


> HM:
> I've put Trinham's Level 4 updates in the RG. HP roll double usual this time. Wow.




Going to check which leads me to...



Gondsman said:


> other than the 2 CmW I'll rely on my Heal Skill. Until I have full L1 complements of spells I can't really save anything for healing.




I was thinking you could hit LVL 2 [1/1] the 15th i.e. (next week) and we probably won't be done with the armory/walk postings till about then. But you will need to post in the armory, or a little more as you head off to bed. Not sure how much you need but could possible get it before the battle which would be better than during... well maybe lvling up during it would't be bad either hmm....

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> I was thinking you could hit LVL 2 [1/1] the 15th i.e. (next week) and we probably won't be done with the armory/walk postings till about then. But you will need to post in the armory, or a little more as you head off to bed. Not sure how much you need but could possible get it before the battle which would be better than during... well maybe lvling up during it would't be bad either hmm....
> 
> HM




Chiming in here... Levelling during a fight is great for a combat-focused class (Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, or even Rogue), but terrible for your average spellcaster. Reason being, spellcasters need time to rest and study/pray/focus for their spells, while the warrior just gets his stats boosted automatically. Just a little food for thought there...


----------



## HolyMan

My thinking was leaning towards that "special energy" coming from deep within to give Lurik a cure spell when he really needed it or whatever channeling divine power he was looking at.

I think it would be hard for wizards and others to lvl up during a fight but a sdorcerer or duskblade finding thier hidin reserve would be visable.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Quote:* _"What can she say??? The DM just hopes she takes her year one gift."  -Holyman_

Oh snap!  I have the sudden urge to gender swap Marko for a little of Vance's I-Love-The-Ladies action.

*gender swap*

"...Why hello big boy.  Why don't you bring that lovely behind of yours over here and sit next to me.  Thats right.  Good.  Now look away for just one moment..."

*picks pocket*...
*picks other pocket*...
*steals sword*...
*steals armor*...
*dumps him in hydra lake*...

"...Oops!  Silly me. Tehehe"


----------



## Gondsman

Truthfully I like the idea of trying to survive this fight, we have a fair amount of might in the levels of the others, and with the cover (19AC) and other spells (bless+Magic weapon+PBS=Longbow +4  1d8+2) I think I can do well.

Also the more i think about it, if I were to replace the armor prof (light) with the Warmage ability Armored Mage (Light) and get me a chain shirt, possibly from the armory, i don't need the mage armor spell, and don't have to worry about spell failure....

However i see this maybe as being a "Lurik wakes up to the powers of the universe and his divine casting shows him how to modify his casting to ignore spell failure (divine casting has none) in the same battle where the first true application of divine and arcane magic occurs" sort of thing, and the actual fear of battle leads Lurik to wish he had more offensive magical might and real physical protection leading him to use armor


anyway just a thought




And you should be careful tempting the DM like that Marko, remember what I did to Dane's Character


----------



## Gondsman

Also I want to address this caring issue, when Lurik doesn't "care" it refers to the social interactions, the hubris of other characters, that sort of stuff.  Lurik does care about life, as that is part of the magical force of the universe, and logically understands the value of being able to knit the wounds of protecting companions.

If I had my way, however, the typical "a warmth spreads over your wounds leaving them feeling good and tingly" that you see as the description of healing magic would with Lurik be replaced with "you imagine you can feel the fabric of your body stretching and knitting together, an unpleasant though not particularly painful feeling that ends with your wounds closed and the pain gone" as Lurik has a neutral-cold-logic sort of thing going.

Lurik doesn't have to care about the suffering of his companions to care about their ability to function.

If it helps, think of Lurik more as a Mechanic for Human Bodies, and less a Nurse.


----------



## Deskjob

Gondsman said:


> And you should be careful tempting the DM like that Marko, remember what I did to Dane's Character




Haha.  I do.  Dayne my still be recovering from that very incident as we speak.  I still remember his uncaring attitude and mild amusement he held for said transformation.  _*tear*_ Poor little gnome...


----------



## HolyMan

One of the main things I love about RPing going back and reminiscing.  So is everyone ready to make some new stories to tell??

I think we are as ready as can be I'm going to post the  mass combat rules but remember they are untested/untried so let me know what you think here and any questions you may have. I'm not even sure I have finished them LOL but I need to get to work.  

Also before we start lets try and set up Stat blocks (post them here for a quick glance) and divide up the scrolls adding them to your block. I will be busy till mon nite but will try and check in I want to start this combat after XP are guvin out so WED afternoon. Hope everyone is ready.


----------



## Gondsman

I won't say I like or understand the rules, if-y on both, but I can't think of a better way.


----------



## Myth and Legend

HM a boar spear is meant to be thrown AFAIK. Also, no way in hell are you getting Lora to have anything to do with a betrothal 

However i'd like to express my concerns for the lack of gold in this game. Lora is now Lvl 4, by the DMG (page 135) standards this warrants her having 5,400 gp. worth of items. Sure a ROP +1 is nice but I'd rather have her purchase a Wand of Benign Transposition, the option to copy some spells for 50 gp x spell level (so she can get the ability score buff spells for lvl 2, as well as things like wraithstrike - a Wizard needs lots of spells to utilize his versatility). Are you keeping the campaing intentionally poor on gold/equipment?


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Combat Rules:
*
I think I understand.  We get allies and enemies assigned to us and we do the combat rounds ourselves.  Initiative determines which PC's go first.  No problem.

*Boar Spear:*

My boar spear features a cross-hilt near the spear-tip.  It is used to impale a charging pig and keep him from lunging up the haft to me as he dies.  I do not throw it.  Maybe Myth's boar spears are of different construction than mine are?

*Vacation:*

I'm on a beach in the Pacific until next Monday.  I have internet and my computer with me too.  I'll try to check in as often as I can.  I apologize in advance for any wait-time.


----------



## Gondsman

I can't find where but it sure seems to me like HM has stated at some point that he's at least keeping things low magic.  He's using a custom XP system, and the DMG suggested wealth per level is partly linked to using their stats, their xp system and such, so if he wants to balance us otherwise then...its just more work for him.  I do hope he keeps in mind that lowering our wealth lowers our ability to handle the CR's that WOTC has conveniently provided.



As far as boar spear's go, I imagine it depends on the culture of the ones doing the hunting.  I'm sure both exist, question is, which fits most closely to the group of people here.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Dang it maybe you guys were right, it says here that a boar spear is a melee weapon. But i'm certain i have the memory of some source stating that boar spears were heavier than regular ones and one would throw it at a charging boar and move away.


----------



## HolyMan

I just thought a boar spear is whatever spear you use to kill a boar LOL, guess I should have said they were chiavarinas.

And Deskjob got it right, my thinking is that if we do it with these rules it will speed up play. People not waiting for me to post and see what the badguys ae up to.

I will post stats for the Treylor and villiagers for you to use and I forgot to finish the morale rules part but in a nut shell:

Any Treylor or villiager reduced to 2hp or less will only withdraw from combat until they can get away and then try and get behind the "fighting line" and away from combat. Those that can't move out of combat will fight defensively.

Ok just need to divide up the scrolls and post yourselves off to bed if you wish. And I will start the dawn of the fight post tomorrow nite before posting XP.

[sblock=Gold] I will adress this after we get the fight rolling I really don't think you need 5,000gp in the middle of this just get in the way LOL. j/k no equipment is important but I think focusing on character development and abilities more rewarding than say a bunch of scrolls. I am working on catching everyone up to date on average equipment by lvl. But it is hard Claude missed out on getting his masterwork bow because he is a nice guy, and missed on the masterwork half-plate in the armory because he didn't go there. So I am trying, but I don't play that a charater can walk into a magic shoppe and by whatever they like. [/sblock]

EDIT: Don't forget Martomum had alot more gold than the little he gave the group he's just greedy as any good dwarf should be.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Wealth*

Might I recommend that you start taking lunch orders for equipment HolyMan.  The PC's could then gain this equipment via timelapse.  Not all of our adventures need be written out completely for them to have happened.  Just let 24 hours pass, we get the equipment, and we can fill in the blanks later when this adventure gets published.  Haha.  You don't actually need to "write-in" the allocation of gear.  The PC's can do that.

Just take the lunch orders and give the okay.  You da boss.


----------



## HolyMan

good ideal, Deskjob I would like to know what people want besides +1 weapons and such. Never knew Lora wanted a wraithstrike spell? But it all should be good ML forgot that her first encounter this campaign was a 5th LVL fighter, and she didn't have a single XP point even. I have been working on bring up equipment but you really don't need much. Lora will get some new spells from Skazul's library, the warriors will get equipment from this battle coming up, and I hope to have everything close to balanced.

btw Deskjob you didn't post once these past two weeks???  and did I ok lvl ups??

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Level ups*

I did the level up thing weeks ago.  If you missed it, you missed it.  Nothing has changed since though, so it should be an easy task.  If you have questions PM me.

*Posting Less?*

I didn't post because I didn't have too.  Marko did his thing and went to bed, a long time ago.  Soldiers are easy like that.  They do their job and go home.  If it means I get no Exp for the week, then so be it.  "Silence is golden."


----------



## HolyMan

But you still need to make your presence known you were there during the dinner or did you not go?

I did see your lvl ups and then my internet went down, I was going to ask if you have a link to your HP roll. Guess I saw them and have't gotten around to it (my bad ), I will be trying to check everyone before the battle don't want anyone missing anything.

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Dinner Drama?*

Marko was there.  When the baron finished his "tirade" Marko listened and watched everyones reactions, especially Claude's.  Then he left...  I wasn't about to stick around just to hear people bickering about commands and tactics.  Blah, blah, blah.  Marko is here for the butt-kicking.

I made that post and went to stand-by.  If you need me to make a post once every two weeks, I can do that.  Even if it is, _"...Marko watches everybody talking about stuff he doesn't seem to care about.  Marko decides to follow Mogin's example and take a nap.  The end."_


----------



## HolyMan

Yep something like that LOL, no it's just since your post. I have been at work (80+ hours), been to a barbecue, gone and seen three movies, and done a ton of other stuff. The posting about every other week is to help me remeber what is going on LOL. And I enjoy the great posts like your last one in BaHM (great stuff ). 

So I guess it's more a post to update. After two weeks of RL I get kind of lost as to who is where and what's what. Except for Mogins I pretty much can keep track of him.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

given the massive size of the OOC strategy posts so far, I thought I'd do mine here.  Not sure what FM means by a shell, and my barricade won't be maneuverable so I'm not getting references to that.  a key for FM's map would help, unless you have Marko using a multiply spell with 12 clones of himself I'm not sure what m means.  Also, remember that the plan is a formation that is concave toward the  elves not convex, if that is what the shell thing meant.

one question.  None of the people right now is actually armed with a crossbow? all of them were broken?  However it works I imagine I or another caster should have command of any ranged forces.  I'd like to be near the center of the formation to maximize the effect of the bless spell.  _

Cover only helps if you are closer to it than the attacker is (PHB 151 - low obstacles)_, so I need to be immediately behind it, Other than with the spears (reach weapons), i don't see the use of attacking from behind the barrier (if the front line is behind the barrier, and I'm behind them and I shoot the front line they have cover against me, and I don't get any cover)


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Gondsman said:


> given the massive size of the OOC strategy posts so far, I thought I'd do mine here. Not sure what FM means by a shell, and my barricade won't be maneuverable so I'm not getting references to that. a key for FM's map would help, unless you have Marko using a multiply spell with 12 clones of himself I'm not sure what m means. Also, remember that the plan is a formation that is concave toward the elves not convex, if that is what the shell thing meant.
> 
> one question. None of the people right now is actually armed with a crossbow? all of them were broken? However it works I imagine I or another caster should have command of any ranged forces. I'd like to be near the center of the formation to maximize the effect of the bless spell.
> 
> _Cover only helps if you are closer to it than the attacker is (PHB 151 - low obstacles)_, so I need to be immediately behind it, Other than with the spears (reach weapons), i don't see the use of attacking from behind the barrier (if the front line is behind the barrier, and I'm behind them and I shoot the front line they have cover against me, and I don't get any cover)




m means regular soldier or man-at-arms. You're not with my group so you shouldn't worry about what I am doing. I would have assumed the barriers would be able to be large enough that they would at least cover 2 squares behind them but I haven't been told anything about them . the barriers are meant to face the elves and block off shots from the sides without giving up any defense from the front.


----------



## Gondsman

Frozen Messiah said:


> You're not with my group so you shouldn't worry about what I am doing.





Frozen Messiah said:


> ______________
> /b b b b b b b b b
> /b Lmmm C mmmT b
> m m mmm m m




then might I ask who the L represents? _I_ shouldn't worry about the strategy you proposed for _my_ group?

I don't know what barriers you are erecting, I'm planning on the creation scroll, but that only gives us about 20ft (4 squares) of barrier, enough for me and a small number of crossbowman


----------



## Dragonwriter

Gondsman, the "L" in FM's plan is for Lora. (By the way, FM, I think you have command of the villagers, not the men-at-arms. At least, that's how I understood it...)

As for your idea about placing you closer to the wall/barricade, I'd figure it would be better for you to remain back, using your archery on enemies a little farther away. Archers in the front row doesn't turn out well. 

That said, if you insist on walking up in front, Jareth really can't _physically_ stop you (well, he could, but it would be a waste of time and energy and do a number on group morale), and I can't tell you how to play your character. This is just a rough plan and suggestions for tactics. Right now, I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation and get as many through as possible.


----------



## ghostcat

Just a quick note to say Trinham has his own crossbow. Which he intends to use.

Also FM. bear in mind that Trinham is a warrior-mage type. So wears leather armor and uses a sword. Otherwise, he is happy with any plan that you come up with.


----------



## HolyMan

*Experience June 1st - June 15th*



		Code:
	

Myth and Legend                    430
Frozen Messiah                     150
Dragonwriter                       290
ghostcat                           330
Gondsman                           155
Deskjob                             50

 
Hmm.. "No plan survives contact with the enemy." LOL that said all your plans are good but until the brracadies are erected there is no way to know the size. 

Battle starts tonight (I'm at the library ) so at least by 9pm EST LOL and once I post the opener you will have time to give orders/arrange people before the Treylor advance.

BUT most importantly where are the scrolls Lurik defiently has the minor creation one does he have all the others??? 

I got alot to do posting villiager stats and such but going to catch up to my 17 subsrcibed threads.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

Again why I asked for a map key, I'm still too new to this group to figure these things out for myself when people don't specifically state that their post isn't in response to the previous post.

When I had the idea to use the barrier for the archers, I never had any intention of the swordsmen covering behind it too, therefore I wasn't a front liner.  Archers don't have to move around to help other parts of the line, swordsmen do, and if they have to jump or go around a barrier, why were they behind it to start?  It would be one thing if we were defending castle walls, but this is the open field.  My plan is to create the wall for the archers/crossbowmen.  If anyone wants to hide behind me... that is their business.

While I support the men at arms taking cover until we can draw them close enough to engage with a charge rather than let them rain arrows upon us, I'm talking about once we have actually joined combat, and a 2'4" wall won't protect very many people, and will give fewer total cover.



so to HM, other than the scroll, what barriers are the nobility planning on, how many crossbowmen and who commands them, and how exactly are we all to be divided up?  If there is a post somewhere that already addresses some of this, please link it.


----------



## HolyMan

This  post  has the start of the discussion as how troops are to be divided. You can go from ther I think Jareth suggested seperating the group after that.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

It is historically accurate to have men-at-arms in the mix of your archers. Even the most famous "longbow victories" like Crecy and Agingcourt the English would mix the troops in and have the archers be supported when it came to melee. The archers themselves were not paper dolls like they are portrayed in video games and movies, but were capable melee warriors themselves, frequently using the hammers they used to drive their stake defenses in to the ground as weapons.

If Lora has a saying about the defense, it would be that caltorps be spread across the field to slow down the enemy's advance (stakes are of low usefulness versus a foot only force)


----------



## Dragonwriter

HM, I have a question... Why did you stat the men-at-arms and the Treylor soldiers as Fighters (d10)? Did you mean to do Warriors? (DMG recommends Warriors, due to NPC classes being easier and less training.)

This isn't meant to be pestering, just checking. It might reduce the workload in the future, too.


----------



## HolyMan

Opps my typo and I had just looked all that up and had it done too, LOL they are d8 will change.

Update I have the opening post in the editing stages and am looking to post the map/combat post seperately. So their will be a placeholder for that for a little while.

I didn't want to rush through but it seems everyone is ready *EXCEPT* for the *SCROLLS* please post what you have in you comabt stats post I guess.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Lora is taking Rainbow Pattern. Regroup, is that in the PHB2? Please state the sources if they are not SRD 

BTW if we have a blacksmith available and Vance tells him to pull out an all-nighter he can make a sufficient amount of caltorps.


----------



## Gondsman

we have caltrops?


----------



## HolyMan

No blacksmith was busy making nails and spikes and other things to help bind the barricades together.

Since this is a warm up battle to what I wish for this campaign Lora gets all the caltrops she wants next time, 

HM


----------



## HolyMan

Ok map is up and all I await is your init's and any prep you wish to do I think it will be fun to see everyone getting into postion and ready while the Treylor bare down on them. 

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

alright I have some questions...

1) So I have the villagers or men-at-arms?

2) Do I have barricades?

3) How much cover does the barricades give?

4) does anyone have ranged attacks and if they do will it make a difference?


----------



## ghostcat

HM. Just checking. Has Trinham's level 4 update been approved?


----------



## HolyMan

Myth and Legend said:


> Lora is taking Rainbow Pattern. Regroup, is that in the PHB2? Please state the sources if they are not SRD




regroup is PHB2 I thought it a good spell to have for this.



Frozen Messiah said:


> alright I have some questions...
> 
> 1) So I have the villagers or men-at-arms?
> 
> 2) Do I have barricades?
> 
> 3) How much cover does the barricades give?
> 
> 4) does anyone have ranged attacks and if they do will it make a difference?




1 & 2) You are in charge of the villiagers who will be behind the main barricade. 

3) the main barricade gives total cover to those directly behind it (about 24 people) and a normal +4 cover bonus to those not. add on total defense and a villiager could have a 19 AC.
The two small barricades give cover (+4 AC) and are portable, needing about 4 men to move them.

4) that will come in game as you get ready with the Treylor advancing. 



ghostcat said:


> HM. Just checking. Has Trinham's level 4 update been approved?




Yes Trinham is approved for LVL 4, sorry it took so long couldn't remember if I had approved or not. Question why didn't you trade out your _Sleep_ spell?? 

HM


----------



## ghostcat

HolyMan said:


> Yes Trinham is approved for LVL 4, sorry it took so long couldn't remember if I had approved or not. Question why didn't you trade out your _Sleep_ spell??
> 
> HM



Truthfully, It never occurred to me that I could do that. Is it too late to exchange _Sleep_ for _Color Spray_?


----------



## Gondsman

are we meant to be able to shoot and attack _through_ the barricades?  The way I read it, I'm behind the center 10' wall which gives me total cover from the elves by hiding _them_ from me.

and can I assume that they handed out Light crossbows?




Change of plan, I use the creation scroll to create a blanket of hemp cloth that covers/is attached to the front side of the center barricade, (10'x45'x.2133 inches thick) that should immediately be treated with water to prevent fire arrows from taking immediate hold, making it easier to put the fires out.

I will wait until the Treylor warriors have reached melee range and engage our melee fighters to cast the bless and magic weapon spells, in that order.

If i read the map right, I should be able to bless the entire army with  my 50' Radius (+1 Attack, saves v fear)


----------



## Gondsman

So I have the cure scroll and creation scrolls, Lora has rainbow pattern and regroup, and lets say Trinham takes the Color spray with Claude the hopefully mounted paladin taking the heal mount?


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Gondsman said:


> So I have the cure scroll and creation scrolls, Lora has rainbow pattern and regroup, and lets say Trinham takes the Color spray with Claude the hopefully mounted paladin taking the heal mount?




not going mounted, larger target  would get hit by more arrows. going on foot at this point.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Allied Units?*

Saw the map was empty of allied units.  It left me with little to work with in my recent post.  I figured the Treylor would be firing upon our scrambling workmen and broken formations.  But with Frozen's sweet speech, it sounds like all the allies are in place and ready.  (...and that I'm the only one in front of the wood.  Haha.)  Whatever.  All good.

*@Frozen:*  Nice speech.  You should do that more often.

*@Myth:*  Great presentation.  Loved the chewed mint.

*@Gondsman:*  She was lucky.  Just FYI... Lolz.  XD

*@Ghostcat:*  I love your cat.  I want one too.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Deskjob said:


> *Allied Units?*
> ...and that I'm the only one in front of the wood. Haha.




It's all good because you  are the only one out there you gain an automatic advantage over large groups of enemies...or else every japanese movie I have ever seen has lied to me.


----------



## Gondsman

Dragonwriter said:


> Okay, where is everyone ending up? This is what happens when no one  sticks around/pays attention to discuss troop layouts… I’m still going  to keep as much as possible to my formation plan posted a little  earlier.




sorry, no discussion here, all chiefs no Indians, all ideas and no follow-through, except Marko but he had his own plan anyway. Plan A "kill stuff" Plan B "kill more stuff", doesn't take any materials he doesn't actually have, and doesn't require anyone else to care/help.  Probably why Lurik has recently basically said "to heck with it" and just done what he wants to.  How's the quote go?  "We can die together, or some of us may live alone"


----------



## Gondsman

So from the RG and the map I'm going to assume that none of the villagers or men at arms have crossbows.

The map only shows the first 75' of my 100' range, can you let me know when the elves get into 100' range?

the new map side barricades are larger, 20' to a side making them closer to 30' length, is that more right than previous or less right?  Just FMI (orFYI)



btw, I'd waiting for a post from Claude since he has init, and I don't quite get how to post, especially with the elves at least 2 rounds away at a full run (1 round of full run into my arrow range) and my villagers being melee only.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

I hate to interrupt this discussion, but I was wondering if there was recruitment still going on for this game.  Sounds interesting, and I like the concept.  If this is the wrong place to discuss this, then apologies, and I will delete this post if needed.

Thanks!


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Lone Wolf?*

Sorry about the formation error.  Twas' a mistake.  Oh well.  Guess you gotta play cards with the hand you were dealt.  Oh, and Gondsman.  Never say "to heck with it".  Haha.  We got this in the bag.  We just work together and it is as good as done.  Oh yeah!

I plan on have Marko retreat when the ground forces advance.  He'll rejoin the line as soon as this arrow barrage lets up.

*Welcome Fangor*

Everyone gets in.  We look forward to you joining us soon.  HolyMan will speak to you about the process for joining.  Hope to see you posting soon.


----------



## HolyMan

@ Gondsman: there are three villiagers with crossbows but I thought it realistic to put them with Robert (Ranger/range combat), as he was the one to get them working. So a missile barrage will be coming from that side. The two small barricades should only be 20' long I know at that angle it seems longer (D&D rules it would take you 30' of movement, to get from one end to the other)

@ Fangor the Fierce, Welcome aboard  Deskjob has the right of it everyone gets into Off to War. This is D&D and anything can be explained away. 

Please just let me know what you would like to play givin' the guidelines on page 1, and we can work you in.

HM


----------



## HolyMan

I just went over to page one to make sure that the rules for Character gene were there and I noticed that I started this thread one year ago today. 

I want to thank everyone newbies and dropouts, and those who have been through all this from post one. All of you have made this an enjoyable game for me, And I thank all of you. And from what I have been planning we have only scratched the surface. 

To Fangorn the Fierce (may I call you FtF?? plz call me HM) the rules for charater gene and customization are  here 

Please make up anything you wish to play long term I plan on more years of Off to War. 

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> I just went over to page one to make sure that the rules for Character gene were there and I noticed that I started this thread one year ago today.
> 
> I want to thank everyone newbies and dropouts, and those who have been through all this from post one. All of you have made this an enjoyable game for me, And I thank all of you. And from what I have been planning we have only scratched the surface.
> 
> To Fangorn the Fierce (may I call you FtF?? plz call me HM) the rules for charater gene and customization are here
> 
> Please make up anything you wish to play long term I plan on more years of Off to War.
> 
> HM




A new body in the fray and a milestone to remeber and I got the pathfinder players guide, it is a good day


----------



## HolyMan

ML are we talking about the same things I was mentioning the DB (Defensive Bonus) all characters get for AC. It is 1/2 your BAB, so if Lora has dodge as well then you will have an AC 18/19 vs. one opponent.

Also ghostcat was address your color spray request but thiught a om would be better.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend

Ah ok then  Although clustered together we are actually more vulnerable to volley fire mind you.. BTW me and ghostcat are the only remaining players from the original ones? Theroc left, Deskjob made a 10 month or so pause, and FM and DW joined a few months later.


----------



## Gondsman

HolyMan said:


> @ Gondsman: The two small barricades should only be 20' long I know at that angle it seems longer (D&D rules it would take you 30' of movement, to get from one end to the other)




Not talking about d&d movement rules, I'm talking about trigonometry and the length of the hypotenuse of an isosceles right triangle with 15' or 20' legs.  the hypotenuse of the 15' legs is about 21' so 20' works to provide cover on that line, but with 20' legs it's 28' and you have 8' on the end that isn't covered, basically that whole last diagonal.

I'm an engineer, trig is my life.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Thanks for the welcome!  Question - I have only gone through the first 30 pages of this thread... man, I need a break, eyes hurting!  

On the character creation guidelines, it looks like it changed from basic PHB classes with allowable changes to any class, since I see a Duskblade in the Rogue Gallery.

So, when it says any class available, from what books is that referring to?  Core classes only, or classes from all WotC books?  Complete Series, Draconomicon, etc?

I have a few options, but wonder which characters are still in the game, as I like to make something that works well with the 'team'.  If they are all fighter-type/melee, then I would go with something that would compliment the group.

Looking forward to playing!


----------



## Myth and Legend

Welcome Fangor. Ummm you don't need to read this 100 page OOC thread man. Just read the IC theads - Off to War, Spider's Path and the current one should be enough.


----------



## Dragonwriter

Fangor the Fierce said:


> On the character creation guidelines, it looks like it changed from basic PHB classes with allowable changes to any class, since I see a Duskblade in the Rogue Gallery.
> 
> So, when it says any class available, from what books is that referring to?  Core classes only, or classes from all WotC books?  Complete Series, Draconomicon, etc?




It's not quite "any class." More like, "by request, and you have to provide info." I'm playing Duskblade because I asked and sent HM the info on it, which Myth also reproduced. HM also allowed Deskjob/Marko's class by request.



> I have a few options, but wonder which characters are still in the game, as I like to make something that works well with the 'team'.  If they are all fighter-type/melee, then I would go with something that would compliment the group.
> 
> Looking forward to playing!




The current group of active players is a wizard w/glaive (going for Eldritch Knight, I believe), battle sorcerer, archer-paladin (going for Purple Dragon Knight, if memory serves), sword-and-board soldier, wizard/cleric going for Mystic Theurge, and the duskchain p).

But there's no requirement you make something that we lack, it's much more of a "play what you want," since we are able to be separated and pursue other agendas.


----------



## Gondsman

*@FF*:  it helps a little to read the dialog and skim the flavor text, that's the only way I got through it all in 3 very lazy, do nothing but read the adventure threads, days.


----------



## HolyMan

Frozen Messiah said:


> A new body in the fray and a milestone to remeber and I got the pathfinder players guide, it is a good day




Great can I put you and FtF down for group two of The Forge of Fury adventure??



Gondsman said:


> Not talking about d&d movement rules, I'm talking about trigonometry and the length of the hypotenuse of an isosceles right triangle with 15' or 20' legs. the hypotenuse of the 15' legs is about 21' so 20' works to provide cover on that line, but with 20' legs it's 28' and you have 8' on the end that isn't covered, basically that whole last diagonal.
> 
> I'm an engineer, trig is my life.




Math and me don't mix, but for the sake of my brain not exploding let's just say that the two side barricades extend 20' (4 squares in D&D lingo )



Fangor the Fierce said:


> Thanks for the welcome! Question - I have only gone through the first 30 pages of this thread... man, I need a break, eyes hurting!
> 
> On the character creation guidelines, it looks like it changed from basic PHB classes with allowable changes to any class, since I see a Duskblade in the Rogue Gallery.
> 
> So, when it says any class available, from what books is that referring to? Core classes only, or classes from all WotC books? Complete Series, Draconomicon, etc?
> 
> I have a few options, but wonder which characters are still in the game, as I like to make something that works well with the 'team'. If they are all fighter-type/melee, then I would go with something that would compliment the group.
> 
> Looking forward to playing!




Yes I guess I never got around to changing that to non-core classes avaibale upon request. (Don't ask for a Warlock I hates 'em.) And you don't need to read all this thread I think once we got running it all is basic stuff about the IC game. So rest your eyes, LOL. All you really need do is figure on a charater concept, class and personality, and what you want them to do in combat.

But if your set on making a character to fit in we have never had a Rogue (or need for one, maybe I should look into that) in Off to War.



Myth and Legend said:


> Welcome Fangor. Ummm you don't need to read this 100 page OOC thread man. Just read the IC theads - Off to War, Spider's Path and the current one should be enough.




And really not those till you know where you may come in at. If you are in the main camp then Off to War will give you a feel for that. Or if maybe your a villiager or someone who was passing through you could be standing behind a barricade right now, and need only read BaHM. Kind of figure what things your charater might have learned through rumor and seeing the PC's once or twice.



Dragonwriter said:


> It's not quite "any class." More like, "by request, and you have to provide info." I'm playing Duskblade because I asked and sent HM the info on it, which Myth also reproduced. HM also allowed Deskjob/Marko's class by request.
> 
> 
> 
> The current group of active players is a wizard w/glaive (going for Eldritch Knight, I believe), battle sorcerer, archer-paladin (going for Purple Dragon Knight, if memory serves), sword-and-board soldier, wizard/cleric going for Mystic Theurge, and the duskchain p).
> 
> But there's no requirement you make something that we lack, it's much more of a "play what you want," since we are able to be separated and pursue other agendas.




DW has the right of the group and the fact that seprating is possible. I'm leaning towards a low level elven incursion with Jareth, Marko, Lurik, and Tira as the NPC going to rescue Tharivol. FtF's character could join that group.

While Lora, Trinham, and Claude rejoin with the main army, and deal with an upset Dellex. (With Aidan joining I hope.)

All this is based on survival btw, 



Gondsman said:


> *@FF*: it helps a little to read the dialog and skim the flavor text, that's the only way I got through it all in 3 very lazy, do nothing but read the adventure threads, days.




I hope it was a fun read Gondsman, we are trying to make it so anyone outside the game can follow/read it like a good story. 

HM


----------



## Frozen Messiah

HolyMan said:


> Great can I put you and FtF down for group two of The Forge of Fury adventure??




I'm up for just about anything, any info you can give me on that at the moment?


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Frozen Messiah said:


> I'm up for just about anything, any info you can give me on that at the moment?




Same for me.  I have a few ideas, need to hash them out a little.  I like the 'bardarian' type of character, but would need to rework it to fit this game.  Rogue, I have played plenty of, and would not mind that, but seeing as this is more of a war type game, it just doesn't have the feel for that type of character.

Barbarian type character with the ability to inspire his comrades in battle, with battle cries, short lines of epic battles, and simply there to dissuade foes if possible.  He's the one that you want on your side in a large army type combat, (near upper levels) as he can grant that little *umph* that is needed for those green recruits to go into battle against overwhelming odds.

He's an inspiring character, brings out the best in others, and is not afraid of being a focal point of the enemy...

something like that...


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Oh, and too late, already read through the 80+ pages of this thread.  I like the reading, as it helps me to understand the concept more.  How it began, how it was molded, and how it's being run today.  It helps.


----------



## Myth and Legend

> Same for me.  I have a few ideas, need to hash them out a little.  I  like the 'bardarian' type of character, but would need to rework it to  fit this game.  Rogue, I have played plenty of, and would not mind that,  but seeing as this is more of a war type game, it just doesn't have the  feel for that type of character.
> 
> Barbarian type character with the ability to inspire his comrades in  battle, with battle cries, short lines of epic battles, and simply there  to dissuade foes if possible.  He's the one that you want on your side  in a large army type combat, (near upper levels) as he can grant that  little *umph* that is needed for those green recruits to go into battle  against overwhelming odds.
> 
> He's an inspiring character, brings out the best in others, and is not  afraid of being a focal point of the enemy...
> 
> something like that...



Look into Skald, Dragon Shaman, Marshal or a Barb/Frenzied Berzerker that can inspire frenzy in his allies


----------



## Dragonwriter

Only look at Frenzied Berserker if you want us all to die. Frenzy is a bad move, unless we have something to mess with you until it ends (notice how when in a Frenzy, he attacks _everything_).

I strongly recommend Dragon Shaman. I'm playing one in an OpenRPG game (and have been for almost two years) and they are awesome support + front line (with that extra breath weapon *oomph*). You would not believe how many times the Vigor aura has saved my party members, even at levels 5+ (my DS is the longest-run member of the group, currently ECL 8). And HM has PHB2 now, so it will be easier for him to OK it.


----------



## Frozen Messiah

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Same for me. I have a few ideas, need to hash them out a little. I like the 'bardarian' type of character, but would need to rework it to fit this game. Rogue, I have played plenty of, and would not mind that, but seeing as this is more of a war type game, it just doesn't have the feel for that type of character.
> 
> Barbarian type character with the ability to inspire his comrades in battle, with battle cries, short lines of epic battles, and simply there to dissuade foes if possible. He's the one that you want on your side in a large army type combat, (near upper levels) as he can grant that little *umph* that is needed for those green recruits to go into battle against overwhelming odds.
> 
> He's an inspiring character, brings out the best in others, and is not afraid of being a focal point of the enemy...
> 
> something like that...




Why not play a Holy Liberator? you get some spells, a celestial companion, full BAB, some good saves, smite, and and aura I think (aura of courage?), and call your rage holy fervor (fluff change but if you want to look into changing it in crunch more power to you) and you have some sort of zealot that charges into the ranks of infidels with no fear.

as for some ideas on how to change barbarian to get what you want:
-see if HM will allow a change for the goad feat to be changed from bluff to intimidate. another feat tweak would be to take intimidating rage but make it so the check is being made to make you seem like such a large threat that they have to attack you.
- switch out trapsense for in-rage-only abilities (battle cries?) that would mimic: aura of courage, inspire courage, goad, marshal auras (all would be for a duration of 1 round+con modifier, non stackable)
- fast movment for a feat (goad, intimidating rage)

just some ideas...


----------



## Gondsman

I'd second the idea for the dragon shaman, as far as inspiration and front line stuff goes.  Another option of course, if you want to fulfill the rogue place and be a little more active in the battle is the Scout, from complete adventurer, though not a great one for jumping into this battle.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Skald - I like!  I have liked that concept for some time, which is what this concept was designed towards.

Frenzied Berzerker - Not my cup of tea.  Attacking everything, I would have to add Leap Attack, Power Attack, Monkey Grip, yeah... it would hurt everything, including me.

Scout - I don't really like it.  Again, personal flavor...

Marshal/Holy Liberator - Have not really looked into them much.  They were ok, but the whole religious concept was too constraining to me.  I would want it to have it's inspiration from history, not from religion.  Just a personal preference.

Dragon Shaman - What to say... I HEART DRAGON SHAMANS!  Unfortunately, I play a few of them, like, over half of my recent characters were Dragon Shamans.  I currently only have 1 left, which is a Gestalt Barbarian/Dragon Shaman.  This guy is CRAZY at level 5 already!

So, as you can see, Dragon Shamans are very tempting, as well as barbarian, but I would like something with flare.  Something that would work well in an 'army' concept.  Hence, a Skald-type character, which I have been itching to play.

Barbarian Concept with Things to keep - 
1st level - Rage 1/day, Illiteracy
2nd level - 
3rd level - 
4th level - Rage 2/day

Replace - 
1st level - Fast movement for ???
2nd level - Uncanny Dodge for Inspire Courage
3rd level - Trap Sense for ???
4th level - 

OR - Go with Dragon Shaman again, which I could do.  I would probably go with something besides Copper Dragon, as Spider Climb in an army would not come in handy as often as I would think...

(opening up the good old PHBII....)


----------



## Gondsman

I'd never play a scout either, Far easier to multiclass to get the front line edge with the trap-finding.


----------



## Myth and Legend

Warrior Skald in Races of Faerun is what i had in mind quite literally.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Yeah, I knew which one you were talking about M&L, I have the book right by me.  it's always been one of those classes that sounded good, but had to have the right campaign to make good use of it.


----------



## HolyMan

That's just it FtF, part of my job will be to help make it fit. 

Make sure you can just provide me with the rules for it and we can see. RIght now all you need is fluff and you can join the fight (just not take any actions).

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, Malaroc is now posted in RG.  He's still got work to do, such as Armor, Feats, and Equipment, but for the most part, the general concept is there for checking.

Let me know if something is amiss.

Thanks!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

put me in coach!  Lol, looks like they could use some dragon shaman assistance in the manor battle.  I just need to get some weapons and gear.  100gp starting, right?  Level 1?  Just need to make sure before I get weapons, armor and gear.


----------



## HolyMan

Yes FtF lvl 1 and starting gold for you is 100gp. You need to figure out why Malaroc is currently at Harkon Manor. Was he passing through? Did he sign on as an apprentice and has been working at the villiage? All this can be addressed in your opening post in Battle at Harkon Manor.

Please post there and I will add you to the map with todays update. Still take no actions yet just a flavor post till your charater is complete, plz.

yes that's right there will be an update today, 

HM


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Battle, Round 2.*

Alright for an update!  Kinda strange not to see Frozen posting.  Hmm.   I hope he jumps back.  Oh, and I was praying for those 1's HolyMan.  2 points of damage out of a possible 16 was just what the doctor ordered.  After rolls like that, Marko will be praying to his fish-riding goddess more often.  

Myth where do you want Marko?  I plan to have him retreat in my next post.  Let me know, okay Boss!


----------



## HolyMan

When you do post that Deskjob make note of the 20-40 arrows on the ground around Marko and that the barricade is so full of them that you can't see it.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, Malaroc is DONE!!  Geared up and ready to post!


----------



## Gondsman

HolyMan said:


> Trinham and everyone else with a missile weapon  let lose their own arrows and bolts, but fail to do any damage.
> 
> Third Lurik can get a shot off only if he is next to the wall where he  can find a spot to shot out from.




To the first part, the treylor did not satisfy any of my conditions for me to loose my arrow, so no I did not shoot with 'everyone else'  I will continue to hold my shots for what looks to be another 7 or 8 rounds.

To the second, I do remember asking you something about shooting over or through walls, looks like i now have an answer, so I guess i don't move away from the wall.


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*Fast Updates*

HolyMan I noticed you said you would update the battle every four days or so.  That seems pretty fast bro.  Can I request you move that out to every 5 days.  You know, a business week here in America.

If not, thats cool.  I just want to give myself enough time once a week to post.  I have no problem with you running Marko for one round or something.  Thanks.

Anyone else, feel free to chim-in here with your current schedules...


----------



## HolyMan

Sorry Gondsman I missed that question then, the large wall is such a hodge podge of wood put together that there are places for people to shoot out of.

Four days was so if I was late I still had a few days in the week to do an update, I was hoping that everyone would be done way before and I will update after everyone posts turns/ready actions. If a few more want five days that would be alright.

HM


----------



## Gondsman

personally i check this place like 4 times a day so...for me 4 seems high not low


----------



## Myth and Legend

I can't take sides. When i'm on, i'm on all the time. When i'm absent, I leave for several days. So...


----------



## HolyMan

I will update once everyone gives me a go ahead. But after four days I will update without a post for now and see what happens. I am thinking rounds 3-8 might go by quick with alot of holding actions.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, question.  Dragon Shaman gains proficiency with all simple weapons, light armor, medium armor and shields.  I purposefully removed/negated the proficiency with medium armor and shields on the character sheet to see what you all thought about losing them to replace with something else.

With going to the 2wpn fighting option, and 2wpn defense, shields are useless to me.  (yeah, unless you get him an animated heavy steel shield)  What options would be good to replace it with?  

Options I could see:
Proficiency with single martial or exotic weapon?  (Bastard Sword would be interesting!)
Extra Feat/s (Proficiency with Medium armor is a feat, as well as shields.  But, can't see being able to be granted 2 feats for losing medium armor and shields)

Ideas?


----------



## HolyMan

Can also make things fit a concept FtF so take what you like under the customization rules.

I will be reading up on Dragon Shamans this weekend (probably light reading while I'm on the bus to work). I hope there is a way to incorpate you, Marko, and Lurik into the side quest I am making tentively named "The Rescue of Tharivol". Also I need to figure out how to get the three newbies on Jareth's good side. 

I have been going over the Off to War IC mostly the encounter with Dellex as the others will have their own problems when the army arrives.

For now it is Claudes time to shine and see about an induction into The Knights of the Purple Rose. And for the rest of you to see your charaters in a major combat (all of them before this have been short, or Lora scared everyone away).  

Make sure you let me know some future plans for your charaters as all ideals are not in stone and flexible.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

Ok, here goes:

Thinking of going with a melee quick striker.  2 weapon fighting, with feats mainly aimed at group combat.  Opting to build this guy as a dual rapier wielding fighter, which would be very interesting to see how it works out.  

Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line would be put in if feasible.  So, in essence, this guy would be nearer to the center of the group, using his aura to help everyone.  If the foes get too close to the casters in the back, he would use his speed to deter them, AoO them while charging, etc.  If the front liners are having issues, then he will move up to flank and make use of his multiple attacks with rapiers.  He opts to go with light armor only, and no shields.  He's a weaponsmith by trade, so he will keep everyone's weapon in top shape as well as learn how to wield them properly.  (hone them to masterwork if possible, during nightly camping...)

He's going to probably be geared towards an 'assistant' type character, simply there to bring out the best in the others.  I mainly try to leave the character open to growth, and let the campaign point them in the direction they take.  I try not to plan too far ahead, maybe 2 levels, as the campaign dictates how the character grows, etc.

So, I want to drop Medium Armor Prof and Shield Prof for 2 feats:

Martial Weapon Proficiency (limited if needed)
Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (Able to dual wield rapiers without penalty!)


----------



## Deskjob

*Deskjob*

*@FtF:*

Drop Shields and pick up an Exotic Weapon.  Just my idea of a good time.  No reason to lose martial.  Of course, dropping proficiencies to gain feat synergies is fun too.

I'm using a custom class, so I kinda broke all the rules.  I hope you can fulfill your vision for your character just as I did.  Woot woot!

*Future Plans?*

Marko is a warrior seeking political office.  The higher, the better.


----------



## HolyMan

Yes Marko is going to be a General by the time the campagin gets to Genku Pass to stop the Treylor. Just hope he has figured out some saner tatics by then 

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter

HolyMan said:


> I will be reading up on Dragon Shamans this weekend (probably light reading while I'm on the bus to work). I hope there is a way to incorpate you, Marko, and Lurik into the side quest I am making tentively named "The Rescue of Tharivol". Also I need to figure out how to get the three newbies on Jareth's good side.




Dragon Shaman is a lot easier than Duskblade. 

And if it is too much work getting them involved in the side quest, then you can always just not send them. Jareth would be happier with that.


----------



## Deskjob

HolyMan said:


> Yes Marko is going to be a General by the time the campagin gets to Genku Pass to stop the Treylor. Just hope he has figured out some saner tatics by then
> 
> HM




*The Razor's Edge*

Heh, no such luck I'm afraid.  He lives for the front lines and the edge of combat.  He is only comfortable on the razor's edge.  Call me crazy, cause I've never actually had a character live past level 3.  If it wasn't for rez spells, I don't think me and D&D would get along very well.  Hehe.

Forget about that whole 5 days thing too.  I guess I just wanted everyone to post as much as possible, thats all.  But fast is good too.  Maybe Marko will make level 3 before July of next year?  Who knows?  Haha.  Nice work HolyMan.  I appreciate all you do.


----------



## HolyMan

Thanks Deskjob, I am trying my best. 

A few heads up:

This OOC will be ending come tomorrow night after I post XP and a recap. I think 80+ pages is quite enough. 

I do wish to seperate the group (by lvl) once the battle is over. 

a) because the higher lvl characters have had dealings with Dellex in the past so their's will be mostly RP furthering along a story arc I will start just as the Battle at Harkon Manor ends. Those characters will go back to the Off to War (IC) while...
b) the junior memebers (ye grennies) will get to go on an adventure based on your lvl. and I'm thinking that by the time the adventure is over and you rejoin the others you will be on compatible lvl. 
c) to many personality clashes seem to be in this little stew pot.

So I have more IC to read for my update just wanted you all to know what I am up to.

@FtF we need to talk (about Dragon Shamans) do you want to correspond through e-mail or make a discussion thread here??

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

whichever is best for you.  email works for me, or any messenger program.  I have most of them.


----------



## HolyMan

I am off to run chores but will be back on around 3pm EST if we can IM sometime tonoght that would be the quickest way. But if not will figure it out but first I need to finish checking Malaroc LOL then we can work on his Dragin Shaman stuff.'

HM


----------



## HolyMan

*Breaking out the red pen... LOL* 

Malaroc
Human
22 Years Old
5'10"
181 lbs
Sandy Colored Hair
Copper Eyes

An average appearing human at a glance, Malaroc is anything but when the time comes. A good looking male, his features are strong and he keeps in good condition; being well toned and up for hard work when needed. He keeps clean shaven, with mid length sandy brown hair and copper eyes that glint in the sun. He often is able to fill in where needed, though his strength is best used in melee combat. 

He is a weaponsmith by trade, barely starting out, but he longs for adventure and excitement. His innate powers seem to be manifesting, and he has learned to help out his nearby allies when the time arises. He keeps his weapons in top shape as well, knowing that he must reply on them for the most part. 

*I really wish to expand on this and add why Malaroc is a Dragin Shaman, and how this all will work in our world.*

Name: Malaroc 
Sex: Male
Race: Human
Class: Copper Dragon Shaman 1 

[sblock=Attributes]
	
	




		Code:
	

[B][U]Attributes[/U][/B]
Str: 14 (+2) (6POINTS)
Dex: 17 (+3) (13POINTS)
Con: 14 (+2) (6POINTS)
Int:  8 (-1) (0POINTS)
Wis: 10 (+0) (2POINTS)
Cha: 15 (+2) (8POINTS)
 
HP: 12hp
BAB: +0
Initiative: +3
Grapple: +2
Speed: 30'
 
            Base  Armor Shld   Dex   DB    Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:       10    +3    +1    +3    +0    +0    +0    +17      (+1 Shield from 2WpnDef)
Touch: 13 
Flatfooted: 14
ACP:  -1 
 
[B][U]Saves[/U][/B]
          Base   Mod  Misc  Total
Fort:       2    +2    +0    +4
Ref:        0    +3    +0    +3
Will:       2    +0    +0    +2
 
[B][U]Languages[/U][/B]
  Common

[/sblock]

[sblock=Feats/Skills]
*Feats*
Two Weapon Fighting (Reduced Penalties for fighting w/2 weapons)
Two Weapon Defense (+1 Shield AC w/ 2 weapons, +2 if Fighting Defensively)
Persuasive (+2 to Intimidate/Bluff)

**Trade out Proficiency with Shield and Medium Armor for 2 Feats at Second Level (Weapon Finesse and Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Due to BAB +1 Prerequisite)



		Code:
	

[B][U]Skills[/U][/B]:  (2Class Skill Points +2CampaignBonus -1 INT X4, +4 Human=16)
Skill Points: 16       Max Ranks: 4/2
Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total
 
Balance (cc)               0    +3    -1    +2
Bluff                      4    +2    +2    +8
Climb                      0    +2    -1    +1
Craft(Weaponsmith)         4    -1    +0    +3
Hide                       0    +3    +0    +3
Jump                       0    +2    -1    +1
Intimidate                 4    +2    +2    +8
Knowledge (Nature)         0    -1    +0    -1
Move Silently (cc)         0    +3    -1    +2
Search                     0    -1    +0    -1
Swim (cc)                  2    +2    -2    +2

 
*ACP penalty applies to hide checks*[/sblock]

[sblock=Dragon Shaman Abilities]
*Class Abilities*
Proficiency - Simple Weapons & Light Armor
Totem Dragon - Copper Dragon 
*Draconic Aura +1* (All allies within 30' affected)


		Code:
	

Energy Shield = Foes hitting you are ally w/ natural attack/nonreach weapon take 2 points acid dmg
Power         = +1 bonus to melee dmg
Vigor         = Fast Healing 1 if under half of max HP

[/sblock]

[sblock=Combat]
	
	




		Code:
	

[B][U]Attacks[/U][/B]
   Spiked Gauntlet    =  +2 to hit, 1d4+2dmg, x2, P
   Morningstar        =  +2 to hit, 1d8+2dmg, x2, B&P
   Dagger             =  +2 to hit, 1d4+2dmg, 19-20/x2, P-S
   Javelin            =  +3 to hit, 1d6+2, x2, 30', P
 
[U][B]Combat:[/B][/U]
Melee +2
Melee 2WpnFighting +0/+0
Ranged +3

[/sblock]

[sblock=Equipment]
	
	




		Code:
	

[B][U]Equipment[/U][/B]: 1gp 1sp 3cp[COLOR=red][B] have you at 34gp 1sp 3cp btu I didn't spend the money[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B] on materials but that 34 would be a good start to changing the spiked guantlets[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B] into Dragon Guantlets[/B][/COLOR]
Item                         Cost(gp)      Weight (lbs)
Studded Leather                25             20
Backpack                        2              2
Artisan Tools                   5              5
Morningstar                     8              6
Spiked Gauntlets x2            10              2
Dagger x2                       4              2
Javelin x2                      2              4
Belt Pouch                      1              .5
Chalk x5 (colored)              .05            0 
Rations x2                      1              2
Signal Whistle                  .8             0
Signet Ring                     5              0
Torch x2                        .02            2
Flint & Steel                   1              0
Artisans Outfit                 1              4
Waterskin                       1              4
Crafting Materials x2          12              2
Dragon Gauntlet                20              2
 
[COLOR=red][B]Artisan's outfit is free and weighs nothing so long as you are wearing it. [/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B]Also not sure about this crafting stuff something else we need to talk [/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B]about. You character should have time to finish the Dragon Guantlets [/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B]after the fight as there will be a little down time for some of you.[/B][/COLOR]
 
 
Current Total Weight = 57.5 [B][COLOR=red]have your wieght at 49.5 ([/COLOR][COLOR=red]but that is without [/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=red]                                                crafted materials)[/COLOR][/B]
 
Light Load Max = 58 lbs
Medium Load Max= 116 lbs
Heavy Load Max = 175 lbs
Lift off Ground = 350 lbs
Overhead = 175 lbs
Drag = 875 lbs

[/sblock]


----------



## Fangor the Fierce

HolyMan said:


> *Breaking out the red pen... LOL*



 Ok, I'll try not to cry too much...



HolyMan said:


> *I really wish to expand on this and add why Malaroc is a Dragin Shaman, and how this all will work in our world.*



 Agreed.  Dragon Shamans are mainly out to explore, thinking that dragons are the true power.  They were here before the other gods, and will be here long afterwards.  His journey is to seek out this dragon power, to find a true dragon and learn of his past heritage.  Perhaps a long forgotten ancestor had a dealing with a powerful dragon, and inherited an innate power.  One that was dormant in so many generations, but has manifested into Mal.  



HolyMan said:


> *ACP penalty applies to hide checks*



 I will update character sheet to reflect that.



HolyMan said:


> *Equipment*: 1gp 1sp 3cp* have you at 34gp 1sp 3cp btu I didn't spend the money*
> * on materials but that 34 would be a good start to changing the spiked guantlets*
> * into Dragon Guantlets*



  ok, math time... 25+2+5+8+10+4+2+1+.05+1+.8+5+.02+1+1+1+20 = 86.87 (86 gold, 8 silver, 7 copper spent out of initial 100gp)  That is without the crafting materials.  I have the crafting materials there for creating the second dragon gauntlet, so that he could have a pair.  The first one listed is at full price.  So, he is creating a 'replica' with personal embellishments on it.  Cost is 1/3 price of item, and I bought a little extra, in case he messes up on the crafting.  So, rounded to 12gold spent on the materials to 'craft' his second Dragon Gauntlets.

Item                         Cost(gp)      Weight (lbs)
Studded Leather                25             20
Backpack                        2              2
Artisan Tools                   5              5
Morningstar                     8              6
Spiked Gauntlets x2            10              2
Dagger x2                       4              2
Javelin x2                      2              4
Belt Pouch                      1              .5
Chalk x5 (colored)              .05            0 
Rations x2                      1              2
Signal Whistle                  .8             0
Signet Ring                     5              0
Torch x2                        .02            2
Flint & Steel                   1              0
Artisans Outfit                 1              4
Waterskin                       1              4
Crafting Materials x2          12              2
Dragon Gauntlet                20              2



HolyMan said:


> *Artisan's outfit is free and weighs nothing so long as you are wearing it. *
> *Also not sure about this crafting stuff something else we need to talk *
> *about. You character should have time to finish the Dragon Guantlets *
> *after the fight as there will be a little down time for some of you.*



  Artisan outfit is listed due to his 'trade' at times.  I forgot to put his entry that he normally wears an explorers outfit, so that was the 'free' outfit.  Artisans is not.

Crafting, I figured that was why he bought and 'used' the materials while here at the manor.  I figured he's about done, just needed a little motivation to finish up.  That's why I purchased more crafting materials, to show his attempts and even accounted for a crafting failure, where he had to buy more materials.



HolyMan said:


> Current Total Weight = 57.5 *have your wieght at 49.5 (but that is without *
> *                                                crafted materials)*



  Ok, more math:
20+2+5+6+2+2+4+.5+2+2+4+4+2 = 55.5 (again, without crafting materials AND adding in the weight of the artisans outfit.  add another 2lbs for them, and it's 57.5


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## HolyMan

Ok then it would check out didn't know that was a finished guantlet thought it was material for you to make one.

HM


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## HolyMan

*Experience June 16th - June 30th*

Well this is the last XP of the first year and I have givin out quite alot, over 30,000xp maybe I should rethink my guidelines LOL 



		Code:
	

Dragonwriter                    275
Myth and Legend                 250
Fangor the Fierce                95
Deskjob                         250
Gondsman                        160
Frozen Messiah                  145
ghostcat                        290

 
*Congrats to Gondsman for reaching 2nd LVL*

Now you don't need to implement all your level two bonus at once in the IC but maybe a gradual feel for the "universal magic". And did you decide on a divine feat?? I really think you should take one to get some uses out of your turn undead slots per day.

ok new OOC in a few.

HM


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## HolyMan

Okay everyone our new OOC is up and running and is here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/280281-off-war-always-recruiting-occ-year-2-a.html

It is almost like the first one but I like to copy/paste LOL.

So as soon as you are able stop in and subscribe lots to do to get this battle in full gear.

HM


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