# Feat recommendations (necromancer)*feats done now possesions?*



## Mystery Man (Jan 31, 2005)

I need recommendations for a good feat progression for a necromancer levels 1-20 please.
Also if specializing in necromancy, what two schools of magic would be best given up?
TIA!


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## Seeten (Jan 31, 2005)

Enchantment and Conjuration. You can duplicate much of Conj with Necro and Enchantment isnt very useful against undead. I like to keep illusion to make me and my minions look respectable.

I like: Arcane Disciple: Death to add death domain spells to my list early, Tomb Tainted Soul, Spell Focus: Necromancy, and from there I am torn on going with corpse crafter feats from Libris Mortis, or Crafting feats. I like both.


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## Lasher Dragon (Jan 31, 2005)

Seeten - what book is that Arcane Disciple out of?  Sounds cooooooool


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## Darkness (Jan 31, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Seeten - what book is that Arcane Disciple out of?  Sounds cooooooool



Complete Divine.

Mystery Man, what does your necromancer do primarily? Kill people with spells? Create undead? In any case, Libris Mortis has a lot of good stuff - especially to power up your undead.


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## Lasher Dragon (Jan 31, 2005)

Darkness - do you have the prereqs handy? I have a Pale Master that would just die (hehehe) to get his hands on some cleric Death domain spells.....


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## Mystery Man (Jan 31, 2005)

Darkness said:
			
		

> Complete Divine.
> 
> Mystery Man, what does your necromancer do primarily? Kill people with spells? Create undead? In any case, Libris Mortis has a lot of good stuff - especially to power up your undead.




He's going to have lots of undead and ghostly servants for the most part.


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## ivocaliban (Jan 31, 2005)

Seeten said:
			
		

> Enchantment and Conjuration. You can duplicate much of Conj with Necro and Enchantment isnt very useful against undead. I like to keep illusion to make me and my minions look respectable.




If you have _Libris Mortis_ you might not want to give up Conjuration. Summon Undead I-V spells are especially nice for a True Necromancer (PrC) with the Augment Summoning feat from the Player's Handbook 3.5e.


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## Mystery Man (Jan 31, 2005)

I have most WoTC books and just a few third party from rpgnow. So I'll stick with WoTC mostly.


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## ivocaliban (Jan 31, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> I have most WoTC books and just a few third party from rpgnow. So I'll stick with WoTC mostly.




_Libris Mortis_ is WotC...in case there was any doubt. It certainly goes a long way towards making a Necromancer more than a creepy guy who can cast a few deadly spells. I resisted buying the book at first, but now that I have it I can certainly say I wouldn't want to run a Necromancer (either as a DM or a player) without it.


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## Lasher Dragon (Jan 31, 2005)

Yes I have Libris Mortis and I must say if you plan on running ANYTHING the least bit necromantic - or even if you made a character specifically to fight undead - it is a must-own.


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## Darkness (Jan 31, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Darkness - do you have the prereqs handy? I have a Pale Master that would just die (hehehe) to get his hands on some cleric Death domain spells.....



Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, ability to cast arcane spells, alignment must match that of the deity who has the domain.

The save DCs and maximum spell level you can cast are based on Wis for these spells, BTW. You also can only cast one such spell per spell level per day.
You also don't automatically get the spells; they're just added to your class list, enabling you to learn them the normal way.

If you pick this feat more than once, you must choose another domain of the same deity; you can't choose a different deity.


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## Saeviomagy (Jan 31, 2005)

My first suggestion would be:

Don't specialize, it's just not worth it. You can be a far better necromancer by just focussing on necromancy than by giving up other schools of magic. Unseen servant and obscuring mist are just cool for a necromancer to have. Mage armour, grease, glitterdust. All are just too good to give up. Same goes for some enchantments (crushing despair?). And you exchange that for 1 more necromancy spell a day, and HALF your selected spells HAVE to be necromancy. Ouch.


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## Mystery Man (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm torn between keeping them all or chucking evocation and illusion, at high levels are less effective.


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## Felix (Feb 1, 2005)

Specialize in Divination, and only give up Enchantment.

Feats: Spell Focus (Necromancy), G. Spell Focus (Necromancy), Heighten Spell.

There is a useful divination spell for every level that any wizard should always have, so you will free up the universal slot you would have put that divination spell in, and instead put in another Necro spell. Works out to the same +1 spell per day.

Secondly, many Necromancy spells are Will/Fort negates. This means you want to push that saving throw as high as possible. Both Spell focuses and Heighten spell will allow you to do that.

Happy Creepy-Dead-Loving Gaming!


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## Mystery Man (Feb 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> Specialize in Divination, and only give up Enchantment.
> 
> Feats: Spell Focus (Necromancy), G. Spell Focus (Necromancy), Heighten Spell.
> 
> ...




Can't cast universal spells at all?



> Secondly, many Necromancy spells are Will/Fort negates. This means you want to push that saving throw as high as possible. Both Spell focuses and Heighten spell will allow you to do that.




True, good idea.


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## Felix (Feb 1, 2005)

> Can't cast universal spells at all?



By "universal slots" I mean the normal spellslots that the specialist can use to prepare any spell not from their banned schools. Of course you can cast Universal spells.


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## Mystery Man (Feb 1, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> By "universal slots" I mean the normal spellslots that the specialist can use to prepare any spell not from their banned schools. Of course you can cast Universal spells.





Ah, duh. Thanks, that makes sense.


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## Stone Angel (Feb 1, 2005)

True Necromancer is a great prestige class if you want pure spell power

Crushing Fist of Spite is an awesome 9th level spell from BoVD inflicting vile damage is great for a long term gring em down. Another one from LM is Bloodstar another good one for a grind.

As far as feats go you said that this guy will have lots ghosts and undead so the creation feats in LM are great for that. 

One of the best monster by the way either out of LM is the Entropic Reaper just plain cool.

Good luck

The Seraph of Earth and Stone


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## Jeff Wilder (Feb 1, 2005)

Man, what a kick in the crotch.

I've had _Libris Mortis_ for weeks now, sitting on my TBR shelf ("To Be Read").  It never occurred to me that it should be moved up in the priority order.

Why is that a kick in the crotch?

Because my PC is a 12th-level cleric (Wee Jas)/necromancer/mystic theurge.

God, I'm dumb sometimes.


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## Joker (Feb 1, 2005)

You also might want to look at the variant necromancer in Unearthed Arcana.  It gives several benefits in lieu of some of the things you would normally get.
It breaks down like this:

Skeletal minion
You gain a medium sized skeletal minion that has HD equal to your class level.  A bonus to natural armor equal to half your class level.  And a bonus to Strength and Dexterity to 1/3 your class level.  If it is destroyed you suffer no ill-effects and you can create a new one by performing the ritual again (24 hours + 100gp).  You permanently give up the ability to summon a familiar.

Undead Apotheosis 
5th level - +2 bonus on saving throws made to resist sleep, stun, paralysis, poison and disease.  The bonus increases to +4 at 15th level.
10th level - a +4 on saves to resist ability damage or drain or energy drain.
20th - Light fortification as per the armor ability.
You do not gain bonus feats every five levels.

Enhanced Undead
Any time you create an undead creature they gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity and two Hp's per HD.
You do not gain additional spells per day for being a specialist.


If your gonna use your minions as a buffer between enemies and you I would definately get the Corpsecrafter feat and the feats that depend on it.  Maybe you can talk to your DM about having the Enhanced Undead variant replace the Corpsecrafter feat so you can take all those other feats that depend on Corpsecrafter.  They give almost identical abilities (Corpsecrafter doesn't give bonus Hp's) so it would seem to make sense.

Hope it helps.


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## Yair (Feb 1, 2005)

I was going to recommend philip reed's excellent and free Forbidden Arcana: Necromantic Feats, but discovered it is no longer available for sale! Anyone know what's up with that?   
The work is based on *Encyclopedia Arcana - Necromancy: Beyond the Grave*, which I found to an excellent book although to be frank it's necromantic feats are it's best feature and reed's document has them in a more refined and expanded form.
The idea behind necromantic feats is that they are necromancy-related feats that are more powerful then ususal feats, but every time you use them you have a chance to be "tainted" with necromantic effects. The result, IMHO, is very cool.
N:BtG also has lots of other options for necromancers (such as more spells).


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## shilsen (Feb 1, 2005)

On the spell schools, I'd drop enchantment and evocation. The former doesn't affect undead much and blasting people is not as much fun (not to mention, not that effective in 3e) as making the spirits of the underworld eat their faces. Or maybe that's just me


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## Thanee (Feb 1, 2005)

Yeah, Enchantment is pretty much the most _opposed_ school to Necromancy and Evocation is the least useful school in general. Instead of Evocation, Illusion would also work, but I think it complements Necromancy nicely, so would rather keep it.


Conjuration!? You cannot really think about dropping Conjuration! 

 Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination and Transmutation are the four schools, which should never be dropped! 


As for feats, well Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in Necromancy sounds like a good idea for sure. Other than that... whatever you need for your PrC and Empower Spell (and be it for Ray of Enfeeblement and False Life alone). Chain Spell is also quite nasty with some Necromancy spells. Quicken Spell is good to have at higher levels in any case, as is Improved Initiative. Great Fortitude is also something a wizard can always use as is Greater Toughness.

Not sure, what kind of feats there are in Libris Mortis, but I'm sure there will be some useful stuff for a Necromancer.

Bye
Thanee


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## Darkness (Feb 1, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination and Transmutation are the four schools, which should never be dropped!



I think Divination is dropped least often anyway.



Spoiler



'cause it's not allowed.


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## Thanee (Feb 1, 2005)

But I'm sure some folks would try, anyways. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Seeten (Feb 1, 2005)

Conjuration summons stuff. Necromancy summons stuff. He's a necromancer, he can summon stuff, why summon more, different stuff, especially if he has 4 corpsecrafter feats? His Undead Minions will be +4 str, +2 hp/die, +4 turn resistance, 30' speed, etc, why summon anything weaker? 

Utility spells from conj? Well, I'd rather use Illusion, for the most part, but maybe thats just me.


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## Mystery Man (Feb 1, 2005)

Evocation and enchantment dropped.


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## Thanee (Feb 1, 2005)

Seeten said:
			
		

> Conjuration summons stuff.




See, Conjuration is _not_ just summoning stuff (as in creatures).

Conjuration includes spells like Mage Armor, Glitterdust, Web or Dimension Door, too.

For Dimension Door _alone_ it's worth to keep that school. IMHO, of course. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Darkness (Feb 1, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> But I'm sure some folks would try, anyways.



Yeah.

Silly player: "Can I drop Divination and Universal?"


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## Doug McCrae (Feb 1, 2005)

There's a combo with Vampiric Touch, Chain Spell (Complete Arcane) and Reach Spell (Complete Divine) which is worth doing. It'll net you something on the order of 140hp for one hour. Or a good deal more if Sudden Maximized.


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## fusangite (Feb 1, 2005)

I'll echo others that wizard specialization is not a good enough deal. However, if you're set on being a necromancer, the spell selection is such that you're going to be the wizard subclass most oriented to melee because your spells are especially geared to maintaining/increasing your hit points. Therefore, as one of those damage wizards, I would suggest that the schools you can most afford to drop are Enchantment and Illusion.

Given that a number of the key necromantic spells at low levels are melee touch spells and that _False Life_ and _Vampiric Touch_ easily replace lost hit points, I would build a character who was generally oriented towards touch attacks. Therefore, I would recommend the following feat progression:

1: Skill Focus (Concentration)
1: Weapon Focus (Touch)
W: Scribe Scroll
3: Weapon Finesse
W: Craft Wand
6: Blind-Fight
9: Spell Penetration
W: Spell Focus (Necromancy)
12: Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
15: Spell Focus (Evocation)
W: Greater Spell Penetration
18: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)


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## Mystery Man (Feb 1, 2005)

Well thanks, the recommendations helped. Now how about possesions? What's good for a level 26 necromancer to have?


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## Felix (Feb 1, 2005)

Level _26!?!_

Criminy... how about EVERYTHING? Seriously, just pick stuff you like that's flavorful and don't worry about the price.

I'd load up on Onyx gems though.


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## Lasher Dragon (Feb 1, 2005)

No kiddin and I thought _I_ was a power gamer LOL


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## Nebt Bhakau (Feb 1, 2005)

There's a ring in Manual of the Planes, Ring of Negative Protection or some such thing. You can't gain negative levels and you don't take damage from being on the neg. energy plane.

And while you can (and should) use Reach Spell (or the Archmage's High Arcana ability that bestows the same effect) on Vampiric Touch, you can't then go and Chain it. Chain Spell doesn't work on rays.

EDIT: BTW, can anyone explain to me the point of spending a feat on Arcane Disciple to get access to the Death Domain spells? Most of them are available to arcane casters anyway.


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## Mystery Man (Feb 2, 2005)

Felix said:
			
		

> Level _26!?!_
> 
> Criminy... how about EVERYTHING? Seriously, just pick stuff you like that's flavorful and don't worry about the price.
> 
> I'd load up on Onyx gems though.




Heh, and I haven't started with the templates _yet_.


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## Lasher Dragon (Feb 2, 2005)

My Pale Master adores his Spectral Hand spell for those "ranged" touch attacks


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## Mystery Man (Feb 2, 2005)

He's done. thanks!


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## Felix (Feb 2, 2005)

Googly moogly! 

I thought you were kidding when you said templates!


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## Mystery Man (Feb 3, 2005)

I never joke about templates man.


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## Hannibal Barca (Feb 3, 2005)

You should strongly consider _Fell Weaken_. It stacks with Ray of Enfeeblement.


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