# Character Wealth by Level chart for level 20+?



## poilbrun (Feb 22, 2002)

I think I remember seeing once the chart or at least guidelines for character wealth above 20th level (I believe it was in a preview for the Epic Level Rules by WotC). However, as you probably already understood, I didn't save it and can't find it anymore. Does anyone know where it was? Alternatively, if I've dreamt it but never saw it p), could you tell me how you do in your own campaign (if it goes to high-level).

I'm creating a campaign that will lead my players from level 10 to very high level and ultimately godhood to use the upcoming rulebook by Upper_Krust about which you can read in this thread : Immortals Handbook.


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## kreynolds (Feb 22, 2002)

That table applied only to NPC's but here it is anyway.

Level 	Gear GP
20th	220,000
21st	290,000
22nd	370,000
23rd 	480,000
24th 	630,000
25th	820,000
26th 	1,100,000
27th 	1,400,000
28th	1,800,000
29th	2,300,000
30th	3,000,000
31st	3,900,000
32nd	5,100,000
33rd	6,700,000
34th 	8,700,000
35th	11,000,000


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## poilbrun (Feb 22, 2002)

THat's not too far from what I had created... You may take a look at my guessing in the Immortals Handbook thread, but I'll repost it here :

Level 2 : 900 
Level 3 : 2.700 (+1800) 
Level 4 : 5.400 (+2700) 
Level 5 : 9.000 (+3600) 
Level 6 : 13.000 (+4000) 
Level 7 : 19.000 (+6000) 
Level 8 : 27.000 (+8000) 
Level 9 : 36.000 (+9000) 
Level 10 : 49.000 (+13000) 
Level 11 : 66.000 (+17000) 
Level 12 : 88.000 (+22000) 
Level 13 : 110.000 (+22000) 
Level 14 : 150.000 (+30000) 
Level 15 : 200.000 (+50000) 
Level 16 : 260.000 (+60000) 
Level 17 : 340.000 (+80000) 
Level 18 : 440.000 (+100000) 
Level 19 : 580.000 (+140000) 
Level 20 : 760.000 (+180000) 

I have then considered that you gained 20k more gp at each level. Thus : 

Level 21 : 960.000 (+200000) 
Level 22 : 1.180.000 (+220000) 
Level 23 : 1.420.000 (+240000) 
Level 24 : 1.680.000 (+260000) 
Level 25 : 1.960.000 (+280000) 
Level 26 : 2.260.000 (+300000) 
Level 27 : 2.580.000 (+320000) 
Level 28 : 2.920.000 (+340000) 
Level 29 : 3.280.000 (+360000) 
Level 30 : 3.660.000 (+380000) 

I reckon that I must be a bit of, because, normally, the progression shouldn't be that linear.


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## SpikeyFreak (Feb 22, 2002)

The last few levels of published wealth increase by 40,000, but you only increased the levels after that by 20,000?  Am I reading that right?  If I am is doesn't make much sense.

I would think it would keep increasing, not going up linearly.

--Rich Spikey


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 22, 2002)

SpikeyFreak said:
			
		

> *The last few levels of published wealth increase by 40,000, but you only increased the levels after that by 20,000?  Am I reading that right?  If I am is doesn't make much sense.*




No, increased the increase by 20,000.  His total formula is quadratic: 10,000x^2-210,000x+960,000.


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## kreynolds (Feb 22, 2002)

Actually, if you use the Character Wealth by level charts, you will find that there is no set linear formula. Wealth by level is determined by the average treasure gained from average encounters from that average level. That's why WotC will be releasing a new treasure chart. It doesn't scale up like you would think. At least, not as far as I can tell. CRGreathouse, is there a forumla you can use for character wealth? Did WotC use it too?


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't know if there's a formula for baseline PC wealth.  I do know that if there is a formula, it's not qadratic - it's exponential.

I'll look into it.


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 22, 2002)

Interesting... it's not what I expected, but here's a workable formula.  Note that this is only a rough approxamation for higher-level wealth; while close, it's certainly not exact.

W=3256*1.314^L

where W is wealth and L is level.  Sample values:

```
Level     Formula value    Book value
 10                  50                    49
 15                 196                   200
 20                 767                   760
```

It's rather closer than I expected.  Extrapolated baseline (millions of gold pieces):
21 1.01
22 1.32
23 1.74
24 2.29
25 3.00
26 3.95
27 5.19
28 6.81
29 8.95
30 11.8
31 15.5
32 20.3
33 26.7
34 35.1
35 46.1


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## green slime (Feb 22, 2002)

Somehow, i'm not comfortable with the fact that wealth just keeps on accumulating exponentially... Sooner or later i'd have thought that it would've started to flatten out...


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## kreynolds (Feb 22, 2002)

I have also noticed on the Character Wealth chart in the DMG, that you will gain, say, 20,000 in wealth for 2 or 3 levels, then all of the sudden, it will double to 40,000. You will stick with that for another couple of levels and then it will double again, this time to 80,000. I tried reversing the chart and doing it backwards but it doesn't work at all at low levels. Besides, when I followed the "so called formula I had figured out", I knew something wasn't right because I was figuring that a 30th level character would have something around 35,000,000 gp in wealth. Worse, was a 50th level character, who had roughly 445,000,000 gp in wealth. I have no idea how they figured up that chart.


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## Upper_Krust (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi CRGreathouse mate! 



			
				CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Interesting... it's not what I expected, but here's a workable formula.  Note that this is only a rough approxamation for higher-level wealth; while close, it's certainly not exact.
> 
> W=3256*1.314^L
> 
> ...




Interesting results.

Could you explain how that formula works please...in lay terminology. 

W=3256*1.314^L 

where W is wealth and L is level.  

Essentially the '*' and the '^' are puzzling me.


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## 'o Skoteinos (Feb 23, 2002)

> W=3256*1.314^L
> 
> where W is wealth and L is level.
> 
> Essentially the '*' and the '^' are puzzling me.




I don't know the right words in English, but I'll give some examples:

2*0 = 0
2*1 = 2
2*2 = 4
2*3 = 6
2*4 = 8
2*5 = 10

2^0 = 1
2^1 = 2
2^2 = 4
2^3 = 8
2^4 = 16
2^5 = 32

I hope you can figure out what the "*" and the "^" mean now...


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## Upper_Krust (Feb 23, 2002)

Hey there! 



			
				'o Skoteinos said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't know the right words in English, but I'll give some examples:
> 
> ...




Yes I can get it now easily enough...

The '*' is multiply and the '^' is squaring itself.

It definately seems the most accurate formula so far, but incredibly long-winded especially at higher levels. As such it favours an extended table format rather than a mere formula listing.

Thanks very much 'o Skoteinos!


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## WaterRabbit (Feb 23, 2002)

Upper_Krust said:
			
		

> *Hey there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"*" does mean to multiply as in 4 times 6 = 24
"^" means to the power of as in 3 to the power of 4 is equal to 3*3*3*3 = 81

I don't understand what you mean by "long-winded especially at higher levels".  You will need a calculator with a y^x function.  However, it can increase rapidly, for example at 100th level you get

W=3256*1.314^(100) or 2.36 x 10^15 or
= 2,360,000,000,000,000 gold or 2,360 trillion gold which is in the neighborhood of the US economy if 1 gold = $1.

Does that mean that Bush is a 100th level politician ?


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 23, 2002)

Here's a big chart of wealth, extrapolated from the DMG:


```
Level	Millions of gp
21	1.0
22	1.3
23	1.7
24	2.3
25	3.0
26	3.9
27	5.2
28	6.8
29	9.0
30	12
31	15
32	20
33	27
34	35
35	46
36	61
37	80
38	105
39	137
40	181
41	237
42	312
43	410
44	538
45	707
46	929
47	1,221
48	1,604
49	2,108
50	2,770
51	3,640
52	4,782
53	6,284
54	8,257
55	10,850
56	14,257
57	18,734
58	24,616
59	32,345
60	42,502
61	55,847
62	73,383
63	96,426
64	126,703
65	166,488
66	218,765
67	287,458
68	377,719
69	496,323
70	652,169
71	856,950
72	1,126,032
73	1,479,606
74	1,944,202
75	2,554,682
76	3,356,852
77	4,410,903
78	5,795,927
79	7,615,848
80	10,007,224
81	13,149,492
82	17,278,433
83	22,703,861
84	29,832,873
85	39,200,395
86	51,509,319
87	67,683,245
88	88,935,784
89	116,861,620
90	153,556,168
91	201,772,805
92	265,129,466
93	348,380,118
94	457,771,475
95	601,511,718
96	790,386,398
97	1,038,567,727
98	1,364,677,993
99	1,793,186,883
100	2,356,247,564
101	3,096,109,299
102	4,068,287,619
103	5,345,729,932
104	7,024,289,130
105	9,229,915,917
106	12,128,109,515
107	15,936,335,903
108	20,940,345,377
109	27,515,613,825
110	36,155,516,566
111	47,508,348,768
112	62,425,970,282
113	82,027,724,950
114	107,784,430,584
115	141,628,741,788
116	186,100,166,709
117	244,535,619,056
118	321,319,803,439
119	422,214,221,719
120	554,789,487,339
121	728,993,386,364
122	957,897,309,682
123	1,258,677,064,922
124	1,653,901,663,308
125	2,173,226,785,587
126	2,855,619,996,261
127	3,752,284,675,087
128	4,930,502,063,064
129	6,478,679,710,867
130	8,512,985,140,079
131	11,186,062,474,064
132	14,698,486,090,920
133	19,313,810,723,468
134	25,378,347,290,638
135	33,347,148,339,898
136	43,818,152,918,626
137	57,577,052,935,074
138	75,656,247,556,687
139	99,412,309,289,487
140	130,627,774,406,386
141	171,644,895,569,991
142	225,541,392,778,969
143	296,361,390,111,565
144	389,418,866,606,596
145	511,696,390,721,067
146	672,369,057,407,483
147	883,492,941,433,432
148	1,160,909,725,043,530
149	1,525,435,378,707,200
150	2,004,422,087,621,260
151	2,633,810,623,134,330
152	3,460,827,158,798,520
153	4,547,526,886,661,250
154	5,975,450,329,072,880
155	7,851,741,732,401,770
156	10,317,188,636,375,900
157	13,556,785,868,198,000
158	17,813,616,630,812,100
159	23,407,092,252,887,100
160	30,756,919,220,293,700
161	40,414,591,855,465,900
162	53,104,773,698,082,200
163	69,779,672,639,280,000
164	91,690,489,848,014,000
165	120,481,303,660,290,000
166	158,312,433,009,622,000
167	208,022,536,974,643,000
168	273,341,613,584,681,000
169	359,170,880,250,270,000
170	471,950,536,648,855,000
171	620,143,005,156,596,000
172	814,867,908,775,767,000
173	1,070,736,432,131,360,000
174	1,406,947,671,820,600,000
175	1,848,729,240,772,270,000
176	2,429,230,222,374,770,000
177	3,192,008,512,200,450,000
178	4,194,299,185,031,390,000
179	5,511,309,129,131,240,000
180	7,241,860,195,678,460,000
181	9,515,804,297,121,490,000
182	12,503,766,846,417,600,000
183	16,429,949,636,192,800,000
184	21,588,953,821,957,300,000
185	28,367,885,322,051,900,000
186	37,275,401,313,176,200,000
187	48,979,877,325,513,500,000
188	64,359,558,805,724,800,000
189	84,568,460,270,722,400,000
190	111,122,956,795,729,000,000
191	146,015,565,229,588,000,000
192	191,864,452,711,679,000,000
193	252,109,890,863,146,000,000
194	331,272,396,594,174,000,000
195	435,291,929,124,745,000,000
196	571,973,594,869,915,000,000
197	751,573,303,659,068,000,000
198	987,567,321,008,016,000,000
199	1,297,663,459,804,530,000,000
200	1,705,129,786,183,160,000,000
```


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## kreynolds (Feb 23, 2002)

That chart can't be right. A 35th level NPC, acording to WotC, should have roughly 11,000,000 gp in wealth. But 46,000,000 gp in wealth seems (insert playful sarcasm here) just a bit too high for a 35th level PC.


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 23, 2002)

Break one thousand gp on level 3, one million on level 20, one billion on level 47, and one trillion on level 72. (US units)


Assuming 1 gp = $100 and $9.963 trillion as the US GDP, a 64th-level character's net worth is greater than everything produced in the US in a year.


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 23, 2002)

kreynolds said:
			
		

> *That chart can't be right. A 35th level NPC, acording to WotC, should have roughly 11,000,000 gp in wealth. But 46,000,000 gp in wealth seems (insert playful sarcasm here) just a bit too high for a 35th level PC. *




It's just continuing the pattern in the DMG.  Just think - if you had only seen the PC wealth up to 10th level but the NPC wealth up to 20th, and you saw that an NPC had 220,000 gop and I told you that a PC had 760,000 gp, wouldn't you think something fishy was going on?  11M isn't that far from 46M, just as 220k isn't that far from 760k.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Feb 23, 2002)

In all seriousness, what is the point of gold when you are a god?

Can't Pelor create permanent gold at will? Does he lose XP when he does so?

I would think that there would be a different 'god currency' at such high levels. So many gold pieces is a nightmare...(can't stand accounting).

I hope the Epic stuff takes this into account.


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 23, 2002)

In my campaign, there are more expensive types of coins: platinum and mithril (note spelling).  Platinum coins are worth 10 gp each, and mithril pieces are worth 1000 gp each. They're found in ancient treasure hoardes (with unusual morkings) and used for transfers of wealth between kingdoms and empires.  Few people even recognize their worth.


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## Upper_Krust (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi there! 



			
				WaterRabbit said:
			
		

> *I don't understand what you mean by "long-winded especially at higher levels".  You will need a calculator with a y^x function.*




You will *always* need a calculator.

If you were to present the idea in a rulebook it would be better served in a table than as a formula, I think.



			
				WaterRabbit said:
			
		

> *However, it can increase rapidly, for example at 100th level you get
> 
> W=3256*1.314^(100) or 2.36 x 10^15 or
> = 2,360,000,000,000,000 gold or 2,360 trillion gold which is in the neighborhood of the US economy if 1 gold = $1.*




1gp is typically regarded as equalling $10 (If I  remember correctly from a Dragon Magazine article years ago).



			
				WaterRabbit said:
			
		

> *Does that mean that Bush is a 100th level politician ?
> *


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## Upper_Krust (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi CRGreathouse mate! 



			
				CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *Break one thousand gp on level 3, one million on level 20, one billion on level 47, and one trillion on level 72. (US units) *




I loved the big list.! 

But to be honest I think it inherantly points out the flaws of WotCs Wealth Tables. 

As someone who roleplayed a character from 3rd-level to 117th-level (a character that converts to 83rd-level in 3rd Ed.) I can guarantee that there is no way we ever came close to 22 trillion gp! (and thats using the 3rd Ed. converted levels as a guide, otherwise it would be 244 quodrillion gp!!) These are just insane figures, trust me!

On the Immortals Handbook thread in the House Rules forum I suggested having:

Level x Level x Level x 100 for PC Wealth.
(NPCs treated as -5 Levels)

Using that method an 83rd level character would have just over 57 million gp wealth. To be honest this is roughly close to being accurate within our campaign - certainly much closer than a figure of 22 trillion!

It was pointed out that this scales after 20th level noticably different from WotCs method - but I have to reiterate how insane things get with that method.


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## CRGreathouse (Feb 23, 2002)

These guidelines are about the only way to go, but they assume a game in which +2 levels = x2 power.  Since you've thrown that out, you should use it as a "Wealth by CR" table - so a level 50 character would have 20,000,000 gp instead of 2,770,000,000 gp.


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## Upper_Krust (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi there! 



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *In all seriousness, what is the point of gold when you are a god?*




Lots of reasons, though I suppose it depends on your definition of gods in D&D.



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *Can't Pelor create permanent gold at will? Does he lose XP when he does so?*




Under my auspices he would expend worship points doing so. But thats just me! 



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *I would think that there would be a different 'god currency' at such high levels. So many gold pieces is a nightmare...(can't stand accounting).
> 
> I hope the Epic stuff takes this into account.  *




Well firstly, extrapolating the wealth table in the DMG becomes insane, fast.

Regarding divine transactions magic items and gems would be more frequently used currencies.


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## Upper_Krust (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi mate! 



			
				CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *These guidelines are about the only way to go, but they assume a game in which +2 levels = x2 power.  Since you've thrown that out, you should use it as a "Wealth by CR" table - so a level 50 character would have 20,000,000 gp instead of 2,770,000,000 gp. *




I agree. Wealth by Challenge Rating is more appropriate. I'll have to stipulate that means CRs before they are revised in my system. Since a 50th-level character is effectively considered CR32 therein.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Feb 23, 2002)

"In my campaign, there are more expensive types of coins: platinum and mithril (note spelling). Platinum coins are worth 10 gp each, and mithril pieces are worth 1000 gp each."

This is a good idea, but I guess what I mean is, when you are level 37, do you care about money at all? Do you sit around with Bahamut and Vecna playing cards with Mithral pieces? Is there a 'god market' where a god can go to buy and sell worshippers?

I guess even more so, can Corellon create mithral from nothing? Can Moradin?

I suppose we first have to know what these gods can do before I first make these statements...they can't be much more powerful than a Solar, who are the "close attendants to a deity" and "other than demon princes, archdevils, and deities, nothing else in the multiverse approaches them."

I feel at some point, the value of power, magic or otherwise, cannot be described in monetary terms.


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## Upper_Krust (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi ConcreteBuddha! 

Incidently if you wanted a quote for your sig (?) how about:

"You can't compete...with concrete!" 



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *"In my campaign, there are more expensive types of coins: platinum and mithril (note spelling). Platinum coins are worth 10 gp each, and mithril pieces are worth 1000 gp each."*




Nice idea! 



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *This is a good idea, but I guess what I mean is, when you are level 37, do you care about money at all?*




Yes, trust me! 



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *Do you sit around with Bahamut and Vecna playing cards with Mithral pieces?*




I remember reading in an article about the Suloise Orbs of Dragonkind (Dragon #230 I think); that Zagyg had bet one in an intercosmic game of poker! 



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *Is there a 'god market' where a god can go to buy and sell worshippers?*




There are certainly extraplanar slave markets where you could buy and sell all types of slaves. Wouldn't necessarily make them worshippers though unless they worshipped the deity of their own free will.



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *I guess even more so, can Corellon create mithral from nothing? Can Moradin?*




Yes. But something can't come from nothing. Doing these things expends a portion of the deities energy. The fraction of their power this would represent would be dependant on the deities status.



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *I suppose we first have to know what these gods can do before I first make these statements.*




What do you want to know!? 



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *...they can't be much more powerful than a Solar,*




Personally I would regard Solars as Quasi-deities; the least powerful measure of divinity on the scale.



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *who are the "close attendants to a deity" and "other than demon princes, archdevils, and deities, nothing else in the multiverse approaches them."*




An unfortunate hasty generalisation on the part of Skip Williams who went on to contradict himself even within the Monster Manual itself by having Solars CR19 (utterly incorrect already, should be more like CR24) and therefore inferior to a number of Dragons and supposedly Titans and the Tarrasque as well.



			
				ConcreteBuddha said:
			
		

> *I feel at some point, the value of power, magic or otherwise, cannot be described in monetary terms. *




I don't think wealth in the D&D multiverse as closely parallels power as it does in the real world.


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## Ace32 (Mar 19, 2002)

How in the world would you spend that much GP???


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## BluWolf (Mar 20, 2002)

Outstanding math. However this represents a formula in a vaccum.

It completely ignores any sense of a economic system. GPs are not infinte. There is a ceiling to ANY wealth one can earn in ANY system, medieval or otherwise.


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## Cullain (Mar 20, 2002)

BluWolf said:
			
		

> *Outstanding math. However this represents a formula in a vaccum.
> 
> It completely ignores any sense of a economic system. GPs are not infinte. There is a ceiling to ANY wealth one can earn in ANY system, medieval or otherwise. *





Well, true, but D&D doesn't exactly have a flawless default economic system(just imagine the hyper-inflation adventurers would bring to the world's economy)

The wealth at that levels is probably not so much gold, as artifact level magic items that typically are listed as priceless.  Otherwise, the existence of people with that much money would cripple any sort of economic system.

Cullain


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## CRGreathouse (Mar 20, 2002)

BluWolf said:
			
		

> *Outstanding math. However this represents a formula in a vaccum.
> 
> It completely ignores any sense of a economic system. GPs are not infinte. There is a ceiling to ANY wealth one can earn in ANY system, medieval or otherwise. *




Yes... and no.  A basic assumption of 3E D&D is that +2 levels = *2 power; while wealth should not be directly dependant on this (for reasons you state), it should have something similar.

There are a limited number of gold coins, but wealth at high levels isn't measured in coins.  How many 20th-level NPCs do you see with even 110,000 gp (half their wealth) in coin?  It's simply represented other ways: strange coins, magic baubles, land, nations and principalities, etc.


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## BluWolf (Mar 20, 2002)

Character wealth in 3E is tightly tied to the whole CR system. It assumes that charcters have access to massive amounts of magical items, spells, potions and scrolls. So yes, the majority of any characters wealth is usually not in free flowing coin.

I'm of the opinion that once campaigns pass the 12th mark they should be well on their way to differnet forms of wealth.

Primarily holdings such land, economic engines and power capitol.

I have tried to use these concepts in my game to broaden adventures and also maintain a power level that is more appealing to our style of gaming.

Our group is not big fans of the high level fighter walking around with "golf bag" o' magic swords.

Our current system is mostly developed  but still in play test. We're hoping to make it an attractive crunchy bit for the Earth 1066 system.

PS. The outstanding math comment was not sarcastic. I'm genuinely jealous of people with advanced skill in math.


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