# DDO is dead!



## MarauderX (Mar 13, 2007)

I logged on to D&D Online last week in the morning and there were 12 people on my main server.  Including me.  So I checked another server: 13 people.  
Last night I logged in and there were only 13 people around the same levels to adventure with.  Ouch.  

So it is with much sadness that I declare that D&D Online is dead.  

With dwindling numbers, Warhammer Online about to start up, and WoW being such a big community, DDO has taken too many hits to keep going.  Perhaps they started it too early without all the kinks worked out.  Perhaps they didn't think about adding Drow as a playable race before Half-orcs.  Perhaps it was Turbine working on other projects, within the same genre.  Perhaps it was Turbine suspending people for minor infractions.  

FYI, overall, the class I liked the best: *Bard*.  

Fascinate is the most powerful method of crowd control in the game, and only Bards have it.   Add on other controling spells, healing, and buffs, and they can do almost anything from ranged to melee, casting, wands, staves, and everything in between.  The only thing they couldn't do was find traps - still needed a rogue for that.  

Is anyone still online?  I'm a week away from dropping my account like a rock.  How about you?


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 13, 2007)

Unfortunately, Turbine -- which is the most prominent publisher of MMORPGs that have gone belly-up -- tried to sell everyone half a loaf.

The D&D players got something that wasn't quite D&D.

The former D&D players got a setting they didn't recognize and that didn't fit the tropes they remembered from back in the day.

The MMORPG players got something that didn't really work the way they wanted an MMORPG to work.

The IP is so good, it'll be back. Hopefully the developers will know who their audience is, instead of trying to compromise and get _everyone_, which usually succeeds in getting very few people at all.


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## GlassJaw (Mar 13, 2007)

Grossly exaggerated.


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## MarauderX (Mar 13, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Grossly exaggerated.




I'm guessing you don't play DDO.  Try it, you'll like it!  Then try to find others to group with that aren't level 12...

Edit: This AM there were 56 on.  1/2 hour later it dropped to 32.


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## GlassJaw (Mar 13, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> I'm guessing you don't play DDO.  Try it, you'll like it!  Then try to find others to group with that aren't level 12...
> 
> Edit: This AM there were 56 on.  1/2 hour later it dropped to 32.




I play.  A lot.

What server are you on?  Yes, some of them are much quieter than others.

Playing in the AM?  What do you expect?

A lot of people run invisible nowadays so they won't show up in the Who panel.  Most people are in guilds now too so pick-ups can be difficult at times.

I'm not saying that DDO is on the WoW level (far from it, but so is everything) but rumors of its demise have been greatly exaggerated.  The game was packed last week for the loot/XP weekend.  They also just came out with a new enhancement system (which will be great for the game in the long-run) and they'll have a paid expansion later this year with monks and half-orcs.

The game is better now than it ever has been.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Mar 13, 2007)

Most MMOs hit a maturity level in terms of population and stay relatively stable.  DDOs numbers are low, but I think it's past the make-or-break stage.  Now, if LotR On-line turns into a breakaway hit, Turbine might reconsider whether or not the resources are worth it, but I think DDO is stable.

Monks and half-orcs, though, are so not going to get me back into it.  Monks and drow are two/thirds of the unholy D&D triumvirate for me.

MarauderX was right, though -- I enjoyed the hell out of playing my bard.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Mar 13, 2007)

All my DDO playing buddies are looking for new games lately.  I'm working on switching them to WoW. 

I would have played DDO, but it wasn't D&D, and playing in Eberron is not for me.  I hope it dies soon so a new D&D game in the FR or Greyhawk can get started.


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## Grog (Mar 13, 2007)

If DDO is in trouble, it doesn't surprise me in the least. The game was pretty obviously rushed to market, which is the absolute worst thing you can do with an MMORPG. At launch, you could only go up to level 10 and it didn't even have all the core classes, let along PrCs and such. It always struck me as being a pale shadow of what it could have and should have been.


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## GlassJaw (Mar 13, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> If DDO is in trouble, it doesn't surprise me in the least. The game was pretty obviously rushed to market, which is the absolute worst thing you can do with an MMORPG. At launch, you could only go up to level 10 and it didn't even have all the core classes, let along PrCs and such. It always struck me as being a pale shadow of what it could have and should have been.




Blame that on Atari.  It's pretty obvious that Turbine bore the brunt of Atari's piss-poor management and draconian timelines.

In Turbine's defense, while they've made some blunders along the way, have really done a good job bringing DDO closer to PnP.


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 13, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Blame that on Atari.  It's pretty obvious that Turbine bore the brunt of Atari's piss-poor management and draconian timelines.
> 
> In Turbine's defense, while they've made some blunders along the way, have really done a good job bringing DDO closer to PnP.




No. You are absolutely incorrect on this one. The only mistake of Atari was giving the title to Turbine in the first place.   

Turbine self-financed DDO, such that Atari had very little control over the project. And Turbine didn't have enough money to do it. They were not pressured by Atari to release - they ran out of their own dev cash and vastly underestimated what it would take to do DDO.

Sorry. Not everything is Atari's fault.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Mar 13, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> If DDO is in trouble, it doesn't surprise me in the least. The game was pretty obviously rushed to market, which is the absolute worst thing you can do with an MMORPG. At launch, you could only go up to level 10 and it didn't even have all the core classes, let along PrCs and such. It always struck me as being a pale shadow of what it could have and should have been.




I disagree.  DDO had a smoother launch than any other MMO I've played (and I've played pretty much all of them at release -- UO, WoW, EQ1 and 2, AO, AC1 and 2, DDO, Vanguard, City of Heroes).  Going up to level 10 (and it was really level 40, if you count the sub-levels) and not including all base classes and races was a reasonable design decision if you were looking at the long-term growth of the game.  If they'd included it to begin with, it wouldn't have made any difference, and it would have taken away potential expansions down the road.

The biggest mistake they made was in not having enough content, and there being no randomization, so that every session became a by-the-numbers adventure where everyone knew where all the traps were, what the mobs were vulnerable to, etc.

And, frankly, given how badly Atari has botched almost everything associated with the D&D license, I have no problem tarring and feathering them with this one, too.


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## GlassJaw (Mar 13, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> No. You are absolutely incorrect on this one. The only mistake of Atari was giving the title to Turbine in the first place.
> 
> Turbine self-financed DDO, such that Atari had very little control over the project. And Turbine didn't have enough money to do it. They were not pressured by Atari to release - they ran out of their own dev cash and vastly underestimated what it would take to do DDO.
> 
> Sorry. Not everything is Atari's fault.




Well we can agree to disagree on this one.


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## Troll Wizard (Mar 13, 2007)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> I disagree.  DDO had a smoother launch than any other MMO I've played (and I've played pretty much all of them at release -- UO, WoW, EQ1 and 2, AO, AC1 and 2, DDO, Vanguard, City of Heroes).  Going up to level 10 (and it was really level 40, if you count the sub-levels) and not including all base classes and races was a reasonable design decision if you were looking at the long-term growth of the game.  If they'd included it to begin with, it wouldn't have made any difference, and it would have taken away potential expansions down the road.
> 
> The biggest mistake they made was in not having enough content, and there being no randomization, so that every session became a by-the-numbers adventure where everyone knew where all the traps were, what the mobs were vulnerable to, etc.
> 
> And, frankly, given how badly Atari has botched almost everything associated with the D&D license, I have no problem tarring and feathering them with this one, too.




As Steel Wind said above Atari had nothing to do with it.  Turbine paid Atari for the license to make DDO, but otherwise self financed it themselves.  They wanted as much self-control as possible for design reasons.  Of course that means when the money runs out, they have to deliver what they have completed ready or not, as they are still liable to their outside investors. Turbine did let WOTC review and approval some of their changes to the core rules.  Some I understand due to technical reasons and some of course were to financial reasons.

IMO DDO failure was that they tried to appeal to D&D players and  regular MMO players.  I enjoyed it immenseily from Beta 2 thru the first three months. But once they started committing more and more resources to non-D&D elements (solo play and PvP) instead of new adventures, classes, feats, spells, skill uses, etc. they lost me and my 2 friends.  In the beginning it was easy and great fun to quickly assemble parties, and the best quests required a good mix of classes to successfully complete it and all the optional goals within that adventure.   The constant ramp up of PC power with the uber level enhancements and monty haul of magical treasure also turned me off.  They explained it of, as their "house-rules;" Turbine being the DM.  Which is fine, I decided then to find another DM.


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## TogaMario (Mar 13, 2007)

I have pages and pages of a design doc I've written that (for the obvious legal reasons) I don't call "DnD" ... but is pretty much exactly how I'd like a DnD MMO to function. I wonder if the next game dev company will be open to suggestions  I just want a good MMO from DnD's IP, because I know the license is ripe for it. "Unlimited Advertures" doesn't exactly describe the world we got in DDO, but it's what I would've expected. 

I enjoy the mess out of WoW, but what I'd want in a DnD MMO would stray pretty far from it's play mechanics. If I had the money, I'd be seeking council with WotC on how to obtain IP rights to develop with the license. Unfortunately, I'm far off financially from even starting my own development studio. A man can dream, though.


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## MarauderX (Mar 14, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> I play.  A lot.
> What server are you on?  Yes, some of them are much quieter than others.
> Playing in the AM?  What do you expect?
> A lot of people run invisible nowadays so they won't show up in the Who panel.  Most people are in guilds now too so pick-ups can be difficult at times.
> ...




In the AM, Eastern time, Riedra server.  With other MMOs there are usually those who pop in to play in the AM in different time zones.  I expect higher numbers.  I also expected faster results on the development.  
Most of my characters are in guilds.  I am aware of running invisible, but doubt many do since it's hard enough to pull a good (let alone balanced) team together anymore.  Last team we had 3 rangers, 2 bards and a barbarian.  
Perhaps not demise, but certainly not lively.  The enhancement weekend was nice, as everyone was on for the quick payoff.  50% XP and bonus loot was nice, but now everyone has a hangover from the whole thing.  And the enhancement changes were a little shocking... what major mechanic is going to change next?  Mana?  Oh, that was tagged too...
The game may be better now, but it's always been getting better, slowly.  We're getting orcs finally, and half-orcs as a PC race... a year after the game has been released.  And two of the core classes are still missing.  Monks are coming... when might we see druids?  For comparison EQ2 had morphing druid-types when they released.  Until then I'll just complain, join my buddies on WoW and perhaps Eve, and check it out again in another year.  
Meow, meow, king friday, meow.


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## MarauderX (Mar 15, 2007)

DDO's latest lure: another 50% XP and loot bonus weekend!  When?  Only 2 weeks after the last one!  Sounds something like a desparate, clingy girlfriend.


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## GeorgeFields (Mar 15, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> So it is with much sadness that I declare that D&D Online is dead.




Is that a bad thing?


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## Nifft (Mar 15, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> DDO's latest lure: another 50% XP and loot bonus weekend!  When?  Only 2 weeks after the last one!  Sounds something like a desparate, clingy girlfriend.




You get loot and XP from your girlfriend?! Mine just seem to take loot. 

 -- N


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## GlassJaw (Mar 15, 2007)

GeoFFields said:
			
		

> Is that a bad thing?




To those that are still enjoying the game, yes, it would be.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Mar 15, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> DDO's latest lure: another 50% XP and loot bonus weekend!  When?  Only 2 weeks after the last one!  Sounds something like a desparate, clingy girlfriend.




That's what I told my buddy last week to annoy him.


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## xmanii (Mar 15, 2007)

Sounds like Turbine.


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## GoodKingJayIII (Mar 16, 2007)

It's such a shame.  There are so many MMOs out there I'd love to try.  Unfortunately my machine is so archaic WoW is the only one that runs with any stability.  But I've played the bejeesus out of that game.  It's fun, but I realized the sense of wonder is just gone, and that's always something I want from an MMO.

DDO was one of those games I wanted to try.  I picked up a few trial runs, but it never quite grabbed me.  I got the sense that it could've been a lot more than it really was.  And I liked the idea of an all-instanced game.  It works for Guild Wars.  But then, I didn't have to pay monthly for that, either.


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## MarauderX (Mar 21, 2007)

Alright, after that much griping, I will be switching DDO servers to find a more populated one.  Does anyone know if one of them has more than 200 people on it in the evenings, on average?  Riedra seems to have been between 100-200 at any given time, with most at level 12, and most are already teamed.


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## GlassJaw (Mar 22, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Alright, after that much griping, I will be switching DDO servers to find a more populated one.  Does anyone know if one of them has more than 200 people on it in the evenings, on average?  Riedra seems to have been between 100-200 at any given time, with most at level 12, and most are already teamed.




For what it's worth, I think Riedra is considered one of the least populated servers.  Anything would probably be an upgrade.


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## Darth K'Trava (Mar 30, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> If DDO is in trouble, it doesn't surprise me in the least. The game was pretty obviously rushed to market, which is the absolute worst thing you can do with an MMORPG. At launch, you could only go up to level 10 and it didn't even have all the core classes, let along PrCs and such. It always struck me as being a pale shadow of what it could have and should have been.





It's called competition. To get your product out on the shelves before your competitor does. Which usually results in buggy, crapola product.


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## Neo (Mar 30, 2007)

I was one of the Beta Testers for DDO and I have to say as a D&D player I found it a great disappointment.  The earlier comment someone made about it being something but not quite what was expected by either roleplayers, MMORPGers and Eberron fans is spot on imo.  It touched just enough of all three things to say yes we are those things but not enough  D&D or Eberron to feel like it was properly either.

The upcoming LOTRO Shadows of Angmar is a far better effort imo, and provided they can handle some of the perofrmoance issues and a few silly changes they implemented in the last patch back to either how they were or more sensibly altered then I imagine that game will be very successful and a worthwhile competitor for WoW.  And it very MUCH does have the look and feel of Middle Earth (though I still wish they'd gotten permission to use the Howard Shore music for the game, as the music used is sadly not so middle earth ambient).

I think the last two major D&D related games (DDO and NWN 2) were both something of a disappointment personally, but thats just my take.


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## MarauderX (Apr 9, 2007)

Neo said:
			
		

> I was one of the Beta Testers for DDO and I have to say as a D&D player I found it a great disappointment.  The earlier comment someone made about it being something but not quite what was expected by either roleplayers, MMORPGers and Eberron fans is spot on imo.  It touched just enough of all three things to say yes we are those things but not enough  D&D or Eberron to feel like it was properly either.




The release was horrible.  The changes that have been added since make me think that they pushed to release too soon.  You should try it now, it's much better than even 6 months ago.  

In other news, there were less than 60 (not including anonymous) on the Riedra server for the last ~2 hours.  I had the only 7th level character for about 1/2 hour of that.  

LotR is supposed to be a big, flashy wow kinda thing, but which MMO doesn't try to market it that way?


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## GoodKingJayIII (Apr 9, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> LotR is supposed to be a big, flashy wow kinda thing, but which MMO doesn't try to market it that way?




I was in the Beta, and I was really disappointed by how much of a WoW clone it was.  Tried a few characters but I really couldn't get past it.

I still hope it succeeds, I just wanted something different than what I got from the game.


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## GlassJaw (Apr 10, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> The release was horrible.  The changes that have been added since make me think that they pushed to release too soon.  You should try it now, it's much better than even 6 months ago.




And getting better with each release IMO.  I almost left the game about two months ago but the new enhancement system brought me back.



> In other news, there were less than 60 (not including anonymous) on the Riedra server for the last ~2 hours.  I had the only 7th level character for about 1/2 hour of that.




I thought you were going to switch servers?  I recently left the guild I was in but I've had no problems finding groups.  In fact, there are more LFM's up on Xoriat at times than I can ever remember.


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## MarauderX (Apr 10, 2007)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> I was in the Beta, and I was really disappointed by how much of a WoW clone it was.  Tried a few characters but I really couldn't get past it.
> 
> I still hope it succeeds, I just wanted something different than what I got from the game.




A WOW clone?  Really?  Didn't come across that way at all to me... everything is instanced, for example.  
Today's AM report: 37 people low, 96 high.


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## stonehill_troll (Apr 10, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> A WOW clone?  Really?  Didn't come across that way at all to me... everything is instanced, for example.
> Today's AM report: 37 people low, 96 high.




He's talking about LOtR Online, not DDO.


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## GoodKingJayIII (Apr 10, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> A WOW clone?  Really?  Didn't come across that way at all to me... everything is instanced, for example.
> Today's AM report: 37 people low, 96 high.




Yeah sorry, that was an LotRO tangent.  Should've distinguished a little more clearly.

I played a few 10-day trials of DDO.  I thought the gameplay was interesting, but it didn't grab me the way I expected it to.  Just a little bit more haphazard than I would've liked.  Couple that with never being able to find a group during that period (and I often played during peak hours) and I was a little disheartened by the whole experience.

I have heard subsequent patches have made the game better.  I'd be willing to give it another go, but not before I get a better machine.


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## -SIN- (Apr 11, 2007)

Sorry to de-rail, but whom would have been more interested in a Forgotten Realms MMO - INSTEAD of an 'Everwrong' setting?...

That is what destroyed DDO for me. I was expecting a high-magic, fantasy of fantasies kinda setting, and was sorely disappointed that they chose a 'steampunk/fantasy' mongrel, hybrid setting. I don't get it. All the FR setting games have been top sellers - even back in the days of 'eye of the beholder' and alike, so why change to a different setting for your BIGGEST game? I wouldn't mind if it were a Baldur's Gate style game, I'd just not bother with the sequal, but an MMO - a continuous, ongoing world that you costs money every month?

I'm no businessman, but common sense says FR would have been a bigger and better success - with all of the fluff material available, like the 'grand histories' coming out, the level of immersion would be fantastic!


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## stonehill_troll (Apr 11, 2007)

-SIN- said:
			
		

> Sorry to de-rail, but whom would have been more interested in a Forgotten Realms MMO - INSTEAD of an 'Everwrong' setting?...
> 
> That is what destroyed DDO for me. I was expecting a high-magic, fantasy of fantasies kinda setting, and was sorely disappointed that they chose a 'steampunk/fantasy' mongrel, hybrid setting. I don't get it. All the FR setting games have been top sellers - even back in the days of 'eye of the beholder' and alike, so why change to a different setting for your BIGGEST game? I wouldn't mind if it were a Baldur's Gate style game, I'd just not bother with the sequal, but an MMO - a continuous, ongoing world that you costs money every month?
> 
> I'm no businessman, but common sense says FR would have been a bigger and better success - with all of the fluff material available, like the 'grand histories' coming out, the level of immersion would be fantastic!




Not a fan of FR myself, but I do know that they Turbine borrowed $23 million for DDO, which is only about 1/2-1/3 what Blizzard spent on WoW.  Turbine spent a big chunk of that on coding for 3.5 rules and on stormreach city.  There were a couple of other small villages/towns, but very little open area.  

The basic problem with FR is exactly what you mentioned - all the books (novels and sourcebooks) - way too much detail.  Aside from the fact the FR license probably cost a lot more than Eberron, I highly doubt that Turbine would have been able to create just one city like Waterdeep with any meaningful detail.  This was greatly discussed on Turbine's boards.  People who wanted FR, wanted the detail, wanted the taverns, temples, etc. in the exact spot,with correct color.  They wanted lots of people (huge bandwidth problems) walking around.  Turbine would have had to spend a significant chunk of money on models and texture to get the FR look.  That would have significantly cut down the amount of money for coding of classes, feats, and other rule implmentations (which was already cut down due to budget limits)

High magic?  Christ I guess you did not play at all, my 1st level PCs often left the harbor area quests with several magic items.  By 5th level my PCs were routinely selling +1, +2 magic items to make room for new magic items.  There was way too much magic, and I assume its actually gotten worse.

Eberron was chosen for several reasons, the number two reason (after cost) was that there was no massive legacy of back history that had to be followed.  This granted more creative room for Turbine's designer.  I don't care for their implementation of 3.5 rule set, but I had no problem with their vision of the Eberron setting.

I figure that with computer's technology advancing, it might be possible to create a close approxmation of Waterdeep with all the buildings and adventure possiblities in about 5 years and with $100 - $150 million dollars.  Though I would bet that they would still have to cut features to stay under budget, before the end.


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## GlassJaw (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that WotC basically required Turbine to set DDO in Eberron.  I definitely agree on the issue of detail.  If they set it in FR and didn't hold true to the years and years of established cannon, there would have been some backlash.  

With Eberron, they have a little more flexibility, although with each new update, they are certainly delving into more of the Eberron background.  As Eberron goes though, they have definitely done it justice and held true to the setting.


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## GlassJaw (Apr 11, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Today's AM report: 37 people low, 96 high.




You list your location as Virginia - EST.  For starters, the AM time frame is always going to be the least populous.  Plus, at that time, the West Coast people aren't on yet.  On top of that, you are playing on one of the least populated servers.

Again, I'm not saying DDO has a huge player base but in the evening, especially after 9:00 PM EST, on a good server, the population has been solid.  If anything, it's probably increased over the last couple of months.

I think DDO would really benefit from a paid expansion at this point to sort of reintroduce the game.  The game right now is 100% different than what it was at launch.


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## werk (Apr 11, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> DDO's latest lure: another 50% XP and loot bonus weekend!  When?  Only 2 weeks after the last one!  Sounds something like a desparate, clingy girlfriend.




I still play DDO, a lot, never at the times that are posted.  I have mostly lvl 12s because that's where the cap is and I'm very active in guild.  Due to this, I also have 'static' characters at lower level milestones that I can use to assist lower level people, specifically clerics and rogue-types.

I think the bonus weekend was part of a chest table revamp lowering the loot tables overall and obfuscating by using rasacking and announced manipulation.  Basically, people won't realize that chests were lowered one point after everything.  I think it's also in response to the sound nerfing that most everyone experienced with the enhancement revision.

I think DDO is maturing quite well.

Anyone know when Shadowrun MMO is due out?


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## werk (Apr 11, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Alright, after that much griping, I will be switching DDO servers to find a more populated one.




XORIAT!

XORIAT!

XORIAT!

XORIAT!

XORIAT!

XORIAT!

I've heard it is most populaced, oldest, least friendly, and was at one time suggested as the ENWorld server (I know several folks from here are there, I see them all the time.)

Saviors of Stormreach is a right fine guild if you don't mind casual players and people that are not complete type-A personalities ransacking dungeons as quickly as possible ('professional' MMORPGers really annoy me, personally)...and some flirtacious banter (almost half members are women.)  Almost always has fellows online, weekends we 30 or more at one time.  We've done simultaneous dragon or DQ raids.  We try to pick-up one or two slots in our groups, so we get a lot of exposure as a guild and are recognized as 'helpers'.


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## GlassJaw (Apr 11, 2007)

werk said:
			
		

> Anyone know when Shadowrun MMO is due out?




Shadowrun isn't an MMO, just an online FPS.  You might be thinking of Huxley, which will be a FPS MMO.


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## Anand (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm a WoW player for one year and a half, and I also just tried DDO. I liked the quests concept, but I just couldn't stand the way the fights are. The monsters moved too weird in my opinion. I didn't like it. I also found the UI a little too complicated for a beginner.


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## Troll Wizard (Apr 12, 2007)

Anand said:
			
		

> I'm a WoW player for one year and a half, and I also just tried DDO. I liked the quests concept, but I just couldn't stand the way the fights are. The monsters moved too weird in my opinion. I didn't like it. I also found the UI a little too complicated for a beginner.




The fights were the best part.  You could actually form shields with the fighter, paladin, and cleric, go full defense, raise your to block mode and hold a corridor, then have the other three party members rain downs arrows or spells on your enemies.

There was a couple of cave-volcano adventures where you could find a passage to a ledge above your enemies to rain down arrows on them or find yourself under them taking a rain of arrows.

There was a pirate infested island, where you had to wipe all their encampment and blow up their ship.  Taking out the encampment was tough for a level 2-3 party, but easy for a level 4-5 party.  Obviously the level 2-3 party got the most xp and was the right level for it, but man was it tough.  There were roving patrols and if you run away for some reason, it was easy to get spotted by another camp and soon another band of pirates would be chasing and it was all down hill from there.  To bring down a campsite, most often we used archery to pull one or two, but often we ended up getting most of them charging at us.  The priority then became to find the cleric and nail him quickly, else he would hold person or daze our tanks, which were trying to hold back the charging hobgoblin warriors or ogre.  Grease was a good spell to throw in the middle of encampment and would keep a few occupied for a bit, but it worked on our toons as well and some people did not like being able to charge right in.  I preferred to stand and rain down arrows and then go sword and shield we they charged us.
My favorite part which did come out to final release was the ogre archer on the hill top, who rained arrows as we moved around.  Most times you could avoid him, but sometimes somebody in the party moved too close to the center of the island and agro'd him, thereafter we were rained down upon if we moved anythere that hill.  Which was camp we saved until near last.

There are other features like, you could flank an enemy for the +2 to hit, shield block or shield bash, trip and they trip you, it was funny seeing dwarven barbarians tripping giants.

I would have kept playing, but did not care for Turbine's design and future direction of the game.


----------



## -SIN- (Apr 12, 2007)

The fights give DDO an edge. WoW combat is lame, click on yer target an' off you go, make a cuppa tea, get a munch, then come back - and look, he's still fighting with his robotic-style swinging.

DDO does little for me, mainly because I could never get into Eberron. I think the city sucks - it's a frickin' maze!!, the NPC's suck, have no flavour and were boring, there's no monk class - WTF, the overall land mass & free roam is pretty poor - for an MMO. 

What I did like was the adventures/quests and the fact that party play was good most of the time, and it had a 'rule set' that one can understand and worked pretty well


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## werk (Apr 12, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Shadowrun isn't an MMO, just an online FPS.  You might be thinking of Huxley, which will be a FPS MMO.




http://www.shadowrun-online.com/sro/


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## cignus_pfaccari (Apr 12, 2007)

-SIN- said:
			
		

> The fights give DDO an edge. WoW combat is lame, click on yer target an' off you go, make a cuppa tea, get a munch, then come back - and look, he's still fighting with his robotic-style swinging.




Lemmeguess, you played a paladin?

Combat style pre-TBC was Seal, Judge, Seal (flip over to ENworld, read a thread for ~25 seconds), Judge, Seal again if necessary, repeat.  For many, it's still the same, but Retadins have to spam Crusader Strike every 10 seconds, which cuts down on the websurfing.

Strangely, when I did flip over to read something, I'd wind up with more health at the end of the fight than if I watched or interacted.

Brad


----------



## frankthedm (Apr 12, 2007)

Nifft said:
			
		

> You get loot and XP from your girlfriend?! Mine just seem to take loot.



When you try getting rid of one that does not want to be gotten rid of, they often change thier tune... temporarily.


----------



## Kanegrundar (Apr 13, 2007)

I beta-tested DDO and didn't enjoy it.  I even checked it out a few months ago and still didn't enjoy it.  It didn't really feel like D&D to me.  Anyone complaining about Eberron being the setting hasn't played it in the least.  Beyond Warforged, there's very little in the game that even makes me think of Eberron.  

It's great that there are still people playing it and loving it, but I dearly wish that a better version will come out in the future.


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## werk (Apr 13, 2007)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> ...I dearly wish that a better version will come out in the future.




I think everyone will agree with that!


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## MarauderX (Apr 13, 2007)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> Anyone complaining about Eberron being the setting hasn't played it in the least.  Beyond Warforged, there's very little in the game that even makes me think of Eberron.




Are you kidding??  The whole setting is around Eberron, and Eberron around it!  For the setting they don't do one without consulting the other!  The whole thing is so deeply Eberron I can't even stand to read all of the adventure text and how it relates to Eberron as a whole!  

And I have played it, PnP style.  Still don't like goofy robots and 'artificers' (c'mon, just call 'em tinkers), but the setting does have plenty of good takes on the old to keep it distinct from FR and Greyhawk.

As the servers get worked on, yet again, I await to get another dragonshard.  

Who here has reached the level 14 level cap yet?  Not me, not even close.


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## edge3343 (Apr 13, 2007)

I was 50/50 on DDO. I liked the game play. Instanced quests that actually mean something instead of kill x number of wolfs and report back to soandso. I also liked the combat system.

I _*HATED*_ Eberron. And I _*HATED*_ the character models especially the dwarves. And I hate games where every player ends up with a Uber glowing/flaming weapon.

I am currently in the LotRO Open Beta and it's growing on me. The client is still buggy with tons of memory leaks and graphics lag. But I love the setting. I love the dwarf models. And no glowing/flaming weapons....(yet). Low magic setting FTW!!


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## Kanegrundar (Apr 13, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Are you kidding??  The whole setting is around Eberron, and Eberron around it!  For the setting they don't do one without consulting the other!  The whole thing is so deeply Eberron I can't even stand to read all of the adventure text and how it relates to Eberron as a whole!
> 
> And I have played it, PnP style.  Still don't like goofy robots and 'artificers' (c'mon, just call 'em tinkers), but the setting does have plenty of good takes on the old to keep it distinct from FR and Greyhawk.
> 
> ...



 The look of the game doesn't scream Eberron to me.  If you take away the Warforged and the quest text, the game would look much like any other generic game running.  Nothing in it made me think of the artwork from the Eberron CS.  None of it.


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## edge3343 (Apr 13, 2007)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> The look of the game doesn't scream Eberron to me.  If you take away the Warforged and the quest text, the game would look much like any other generic game running.  Nothing in it made me think of the artwork from the Eberron CS.  None of it.



I personally hate crap like levitating Inns and stuff. I just hate high magic worlds as a rule.


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## -SIN- (Apr 14, 2007)

No, never played as a paladin, ever - only in pnp games.

I just think it would have been better if they'd either just gone down the 'Generic' setting path and just created a new setting 'on-the-fly', or done a better known, better loved and better respected setting, like greyhawk, darksun, FR, etc, etc...

Or they could have just added loads of lesbians. Either way, I'd be happy! ;D


----------



## Kanegrundar (Apr 14, 2007)

-SIN- said:
			
		

> No, never played as a paladin, ever - only in pnp games.
> 
> I just think it would have been better if they'd either just gone down the 'Generic' setting path and just created a new setting 'on-the-fly', or done a better known, better loved and better respected setting, like greyhawk, darksun, FR, etc, etc...
> 
> Or they could have just added loads of lesbians. Either way, I'd be happy! ;D



 Eberron has a large following as well, and to many gamers it didn't matter what setting the game is in as long as it was D&D at the core.  Sure, it's the new kid on the block and it's not a setting for everyone, but it's what was chosen so there's no going back now.  

My main gripe with DDO was *almost* everything was set in Stormreach.  One of the things I enjoy most about MMO's is exploring the world.  Just running around from instance to instance bored the hell out of me.  If another D&D-based MMO ever comes out (which I'm sure there will be), I would like less of a reliance on instances, or at least let me travel across wide and varying lands to get to those instances.


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## ssampier (Apr 14, 2007)

edge3343 said:
			
		

> I personally hate crap like levitating Inns and stuff. I just hate high magic worlds as a rule.




Does Eberron even have floating inns? I don't have the CS book, obviously.

Return to your scheduled PC game duel.


----------



## GlassJaw (Apr 16, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Who here has reached the level 14 level cap yet?  Not me, not even close.




Got to level 14 with my cleric this weekend.  Not capped yet though.  The new module is AMAZING.  Let me repeat - AMAZING.

I'll be the first to admit that it took Turbine a while to catch up with content but the stuff they are putting out is awesome.  The new quests are great and their art design of the new areas is gorgeous.  Plus, they are fixing a lot of the rules to bring them closer to PnP, which is great IMO.


----------



## MarauderX (Apr 21, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> I'll be the first to admit that it took Turbine a while to catch up with content but the stuff they are putting out is awesome.




This has been the ongoing theme, it seems.  From gamers I meet that have quit did so ~6 months ago or more. (well before the X-mas adverts were out)

Good to hear about the new material too.

As for Eberron: I have an extreme dislike for the entire setting.  Robots?  Changelings?  Shifters?  Artificers?  Dragonmarks?  No thanks.  I also have no like for high magic settings, magic shops on every street corner, and that by 2nd level you can have a +1 flaming greataxe.  DDO is also missing a lot of what many players consider key for the game; missing classes and races from the setting take away from the 'completeness' of the Eberron setting, no matter how goofy Keith Baker's ideas are.  
However the adventures are what I am in the game for, not the uberness of my character or what the game is lacking.  I have fun with it whether my fighter has a 16 or 26 Str at 4th level.  If my cleric's spell points are less than the bard's I could care less.  We are running as a team, and if we happen to have a guy that thinks he is the Michael Jordan of the adventure, then that's his thing.  I'm there for the quests.


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## Schmoe (Apr 27, 2007)

This is an interesting thread.  I was just trying to browse the DDO forums to get an idea of what the game is like, but they're down right now  :\ 

I've been thinking about starting DDO.  I just got WoW at the advice of some friends.  It's fun, with a great character progression, amazingly expansive and varied world, and cool instances.  The combat is fun and flashy with neat abilities, even for warriors.  There's a large player base, enough to maintain an actual economy on the auction halls.  It's also getting kind of boring.  Quests are mostly solo.  The vast majority of players have capped out at level 70, so trying to get a group at lower levels is difficult and frustrating.  It feels like the only thing to do is try to level your character so that you can walk around without fear of being ganked at a moment's notice.  People talking about "farming" the instances really turns me off.

So, how does DDO compare?  How is the gameplay (combat, movement, grouping)?  How is the world?  How is character advancement?


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## -SIN- (Apr 30, 2007)

It looks nice. Better than WoW IMO - WoW captured the LotR style colossal statues, massive waterfalls and alike, but everything came across to me a slightly cartoony. DDO looks crisp & clean. Armour looks fantastic... Better than WoW's 1980's style shoulderpads!...

Quests in DDO have 4 difficulties on average (Solo, Normal, Hard & Elite) allowing for re-playability, and each step is usually quite a significant one. Again, the quests range from quick ones that take only 2 minutes, to ones that'll keep you busy for at least an hour.

Combat. WoW doesn't have combat. You click a button and wait. I think a lot of WoW's success is due to it's combat system's compatibility with people - it's so easy it's, well like I said, pretty non-existant. DDO involves at least a little skill. Even catching those Kobold Shamans is tricky! You're having to move, swing & use spells, feats, skills and items at the same time. YOU actually feel as though you've done something, not just let the computer do it. (For those who defend WoW's combat -would you play a fighting game -Tekken say - if all you had to do is select your enemy and click 'attack'?

Levelling - DDO takes a long while to level. Each level has 5 sub levels. It CAN be a long process, depending on play-style & how much time you invest. I believe WoW was easier to level in - actually I know it was. It took less than a few days to rank up to level 6... My highest level DDO character is level 6 now. I have had the game since release - AND hated it. I literally got bored about a month ago and gave it another go - and was shocked my how much it has improved!!

DDO's downside it grouping - and for me, stormreach's layout. Travelling from area to area can be quite a mission, the city is a maze and is easy to get lost in - and due to this you can have a 15 minute wait on your hands before everyone gets to the mission. There also seems to be lots of high & low level players about, but few mid. If you want to be popular - make a cleric... There is a lack of them, and a party heavily relies on one.

HUD is simple enough. Auction house I only buy from, not sell - I'm lazy! Farming doesn't really exist that much in DDO, not to the extent of WoW anyway. DDO is a lot more based on the fact you're AN ADVENTURER, NOT A CRAFTSMAN! 

I think DDO has a much more solid foundation (from the PnP) as well as a lot more options available in the future. Remember WoW was based of a basic pc game (how many different classes/unit types? - compaired to D&D's 'OFFICIAL' 170 something classes and thousands of monsters! DDO is based on a very indepth & detailed game with hundreds of rules, feats, skills, magics etc, etc. So in theory, if they got it all balanced and all included, it'd be truely a mind-blowing game. But until then, we'll have to wait!


----------



## Kanegrundar (May 1, 2007)

Comparing DDO to WoW is like comparing apples to oranges.  Sure they're both fruit, but they give totally different experiences in terms of taste.


----------



## TogaMario (May 1, 2007)

You may not be able to compare WoW to DDO directly, but you can certainly tell the spots in DDO's design that don't make for good gaming as a general rule (that WoW got right, consequently, so I suppose it's just easiest to compare it like that) The level and achievment scaling is one thing that annoyed me highly. Dungeons and Dragons PnP leveling system doesn't scale well to MMOs because people are used to having a few levels fairly quickly, regardless of how long it might take them to reach "the top". While it works for the pace of a typical DnD PnP, the players don't have to wait for their round, roll dice, or wait for the DMs descriptions and other tasks.

I don't like the cheesy idea of flaming uber swords, but I would expect a lot more variety and individuality from what should be a diverse world. I guess that's why they're adding the content now, but I just hate that I was turned off to the whole game before they did it.


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## AspieKenM (May 3, 2007)

I tryed DDO. IMO it was not DnD, they totally changed the way XP works.  That was a fundemental part of the DnD system and when they changed that, its no longer DnD.


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## GlassJaw (May 3, 2007)

AspieKenM said:
			
		

> I tryed DDO. IMO it was not DnD, they totally changed the way XP works.  That was a fundemental part of the DnD system and when they changed that, its no longer DnD.




I don't even know what this means.


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## MarauderX (May 8, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> I don't even know what this means.




Heheh... me either.  I think the translation is:

"I want to level faster!  XP takes too much wurk!"


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (May 8, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> I don't even know what this means.



 Looking at the user name...I believe its a tasteless joke.


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## Kanegrundar (May 8, 2007)

It wasn't.  However, I've heard it's been dealt with and won't happen again.


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## GlassJaw (May 8, 2007)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> It wasn't.  However, I've heard it's been dealt with and won't happen again.




What's been dealt with?  I still don't know what this is referring to.  The XP system in DDO has been largely unchanged and it's actually a pretty cool system.


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## MarauderX (May 8, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> The XP system in DDO has been largely unchanged and it's actually a pretty cool system.




Agreed.  Perhaps we're just play testing D&D 4.0 years before its release... 

...or perhaps not.


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## jcfiala (May 8, 2007)

Schmoe said:
			
		

> I've been thinking about starting DDO.  I just got WoW at the advice of some friends.  It's fun, with a great character progression, amazingly expansive and varied world, and cool instances.  The combat is fun and flashy with neat abilities, even for warriors.  There's a large player base, enough to maintain an actual economy on the auction halls.  It's also getting kind of boring.  Quests are mostly solo.  The vast majority of players have capped out at level 70, so trying to get a group at lower levels is difficult and frustrating.  It feels like the only thing to do is try to level your character so that you can walk around without fear of being ganked at a moment's notice.  People talking about "farming" the instances really turns me off.




Actually, I've not had that experience on either of my servers - both of them have a large number of lower-level folks to team up with.  One of them - and I'm blanking on the name - is a very new server, and so there's very few high-level folks around.

OnTopic: DDO sounded interesting when it came out, but then I wasn't playing DDO.  Right now, it would be a possibility, but my wife and I are already playing WoW, and playing DDO would involve us having to buy (and pay for) two additional games.  If it's still around in a year or two, or if I get tired of WoW, I may try it.


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## Kanegrundar (May 9, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> What's been dealt with?  I still don't know what this is referring to.  The XP system in DDO has been largely unchanged and it's actually a pretty cool system.



 AMG was thinking that AspieKenM was an alt made as a sick joke, but it wasn't.  I really was KenM, but now he's been permabanned, hence it's been dealt with.  

As to what Ken was talking about, I wouldn't dwell on it too much.  Chances are he didn't have much of a point to make.


----------



## GlassJaw (May 9, 2007)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> AMG was thinking that AspieKenM was an alt made as a sick joke, but it wasn't.  I really was KenM, but now he's been permabanned, hence it's been dealt with.
> 
> As to what Ken was talking about, I wouldn't dwell on it too much.  Chances are he didn't have much of a point to make.




Yeah, good call.  Shame on me for even trying to find some logic in there.


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## MarauderX (May 10, 2007)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> AMG was thinking that AspieKenM was an alt made as a sick joke, but it wasn't.  I really was KenM, but now he's been permabanned, hence it's been dealt with.
> 
> As to what Ken was talking about, I wouldn't dwell on it too much.  Chances are he didn't have much of a point to make.




Wow, and KenM was the only guy I had on my ENWorld ignore list.  Now who shall take his place?  

I am finding a lot of people have the approach of not leaving WOW because they are already there, have a guild, know some people to run quests with, and just don't want to invest in something else.  It's hard to give up one MMO for another when the commitment has been made, which is probably in the best wishes of the MMO owners.


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## Kanegrundar (May 10, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Wow, and KenM was the only guy I had on my ENWorld ignore list.  Now who shall take his place?



I wouldn't worry about it.  If you look around hard enough, there are plenty of people worthy of ignoring!


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## Anand (May 16, 2007)

-SIN- said:
			
		

> It looks nice. Better than WoW IMO - WoW captured the LotR style colossal statues, massive waterfalls and alike, but everything came across to me a slightly cartoony. DDO looks crisp & clean. Armour looks fantastic... Better than WoW's 1980's style shoulderpads!...




The games have a really diferent graphics style, that's for sure. I really liked the characters and NPCs, and the outside views. Inside views, on the other hand, I think it is better in WoW, more polished. Sometimes the dungeons in DDO looks like the generic tiles of NwN.



			
				-SIN- said:
			
		

> Quests in DDO have 4 difficulties on average (Solo, Normal, Hard & Elite) allowing for re-playability, and each step is usually quite a significant one. Again, the quests range from quick ones that take only 2 minutes, to ones that'll keep you busy for at least an hour.




That is really good. The short solo quests are awesome when you're short of time. And (usually) more fun then the kill 10 boars WoW quests.



			
				-SIN- said:
			
		

> Combat. WoW doesn't have combat. You click a button and wait.




I have to disagree here. Maybe the generic boars and bats are like that, but the simple mobs in DDO appear very simple too to me. Inside instances of WoW, a lot of mobs and bosses require good timing, mobility, and knowing your abilities. If you want to just push a button, you can even level to 70, but you'll miss the best parts of the game.



			
				-SIN- said:
			
		

> Levelling - DDO takes a long while to level. Each level has 5 sub levels. It CAN be a long process, depending on play-style & how much time you invest. I believe WoW was easier to level in - actually I know it was.




It took me six months to level my first char in WoW to level 60, then two to 70 when the expansion come. I'm a casual player, and I play around 10-12 hours a week. You can compare the level 6 of DDO with WoW's level 6. You can level a char in WoW to level 6 in less then an hour. But to level 30, the more aproximate equivalent number, quite more time.



			
				-SIN- said:
			
		

> DDO's downside it grouping




Well, most of MMORPG have problems in that point. In WoW, to have a good grouping experience you must belong to a guild. I'm not sure in DDO, I made some few successful groups, but only to low level quests.



			
				-SIN- said:
			
		

> I think DDO has a much more solid foundation (from the PnP) as well as a lot more options available in the future.




I think the system of DDO is bit clunky to a MMORPG. Those are nice PnP rules, but for realtime combat and character interaction, maybe not so much. The Eberron setting was very nicely implemented, IMHO. But WoW have a nice lore, with some really nice written quests.

Sorry about my messy English. Cheers,


----------



## MarauderX (May 19, 2007)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> I wouldn't worry about it.  If you look around hard enough, there are plenty of people worthy of ignoring!




Did you say something Kane?  Oh, wait, let me take you off my ignore list... I thought you were volunteering!


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## MarauderX (May 19, 2007)

Anyone finding LotR Online to be a better version of DDO?  I understand most of the graphics and quest/world layouts are pretty similar, with a different set of rules that are already worked out... How would you compare the two?  
Perhaps it's time to drop DDO (yes, even the Xoriat server) and get on with something new.


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## Kanegrundar (May 19, 2007)

Could someone please quote MarauderX?  

Seriously though, I thought more of WoW in the playstyle of LotRO when I was in beta than I did DDO.  The look is a lot like DDO, but it felt like they were copying the format of WoW to a certain extent.  All in all LotRO is a fun game, but I'm not going to be a subscriber until they get some more content out there.  Plus, I'd like to see them change the way Monsters are played.  That just didn't grab me at all.


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## GlassJaw (May 20, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Anyone finding LotR Online to be a better version of DDO?  I understand most of the graphics and quest/world layouts are pretty similar, with a different set of rules that are already worked out... How would you compare the two?
> Perhaps it's time to drop DDO (yes, even the Xoriat server) and get on with something new.




I haven't played LotR yet (but I might give it a try) but from what I've heard from those that have, it's been described to me as a LotR-skinned WoW.  So the players that like DDO because it's different than WoW don't seem to like LotR very much.  The people that played WoW for a long time but got burned out on it seem to be sticking with LotR.


----------



## Hjorimir (May 21, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Anyone finding LotR Online to be a better version of DDO?  I understand most of the graphics and quest/world layouts are pretty similar, with a different set of rules that are already worked out... How would you compare the two?
> Perhaps it's time to drop DDO (yes, even the Xoriat server) and get on with something new.



I don't find LotROnline reminding me of DDO at all, actually. LotRO sits somewhere beteween EQ and WoW as far as gameplay is concerned. The mechanics feel a lot like WoW, but the game seems less forgiving (edgier, if you will). I guess I'd say LotRO is like a more challenging WoW and that suits well with my tastes.


----------



## Hjorimir (May 21, 2007)

werk said:
			
		

> http://www.shadowrun-online.com/sro/



Microsoft pulled the plug on SROnline.


----------



## MarauderX (Jun 6, 2007)

Just got booted from DDO so they can do another hot fix.  

Does anyone know or have a tally of how many hours the game has been down or unavailable since it started?

FYI they booted about 18 of us just now.  It was a virtual riot.


----------



## DaveMage (Jun 6, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Just got booted from DDO so they can do another hot fix.
> 
> Does anyone know or have a tally of how many hours the game has been down or unavailable since it started?
> 
> FYI they booted about 18 of us just now.  It was a virtual riot.




I'm sure they will credit your account for the downtime....


----------



## Wulf Ratbane (Jun 6, 2007)

Downtime on DDO is extremely rare, and almost always announced well in advance.

Today's downtime is a scheduled hotfix announced yesterday, maybe Monday.

I can honestly think of no time, EVER, that the DDO servers have gone offline unexpectedly. My own client has crashed, perhaps, twice.

While downtime is usually scheduled server maintenance, today's hotfix smacks of an "OOPS!" I am guessing that today's hotfix is going to fix an unexpected "bug" where Holy Smite stuns all evil opponents for 1 round, with no save. Those Holy Smite wands have been sellin' like hotcakes.


----------



## Felon (Jun 6, 2007)

-SIN- said:
			
		

> Combat. WoW doesn't have combat. You click a button and wait. I think a lot of WoW's success is due to it's combat system's compatibility with people - it's so easy it's, well like I said, pretty non-existant. DDO involves at least a little skill. Even catching those Kobold Shamans is tricky! You're having to move, swing & use spells, feats, skills and items at the same time. YOU actually feel as though you've done something, not just let the computer do it. (For those who defend WoW's combat -would you play a fighting game -Tekken say - if all you had to do is select your enemy and click 'attack'?



I don't play WoW anymore, but I have to say that you're being somewhat unfair. It sounds like you're imploying that there's no combat just because combat is fairly static, with opponents in melee just charging up to each other and standing in that one spot chopping away until someone is dead. While that can be unsatisfying for some, that doesn't really mean that it's on auto-pilot. If you're playing a rogue, for instance, you have to chain up your sneak attack combos. If you just click a button and hope for the critter to drop eventually without any further action from the player, you're dead. 

But you have touched upon my big beef with MMORPG's. A traditional computer RPG has a heavy emphasis on exploration, surprises, and problem-solving. A good RPG has easter egs aplenty. MMORPG's seem to feel compelled to go in the exact opposite direction; everything has to be linear, predictable, and most importantly, repeatable. You run through a dungeon and use the same tactics to take down one group of mobs after the next. Surprises are bad for some reason.  

I would love to see dungeons in WoW where you face foes in different locations every time you go in, and the boss might be completely different every time. But see, many folks would hate that in WoW because they want to be able to build the perfect team with the right spells and tactics prepared to take down the boss.


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## Felon (Jun 6, 2007)

So, I only played DDO briefly near its initial release. Let me ask some questions.

Is there enough variety that folks aren't just repeating the same handful of quests due to clear-cut flaws in the time-investment/reward ratio? In my day, it was Waterworks and some other higher-level quest.

Are some skills still useless? I remember Spot and Listen helped you find traps, but since dungeons aren't dynamic, the traps are always in the same place. Tumble did not seem to do anything other than look funny, and stupidly enough there was some backflip maneuver you could do, but it required such high ranks that it was only possible when a wizard cast a a Tumble-buffing spell on you.


----------



## GlassJaw (Jun 7, 2007)

Felon said:
			
		

> Is there enough variety that folks aren't just repeating the same handful of quests due to clear-cut flaws in the time-investment/reward ratio? In my day, it was Waterworks and some other higher-level quest.




It's definitely not as bad as it once was.  There are still some clear-cut winners though.  I think there's more of a problem with quests that no one runs unless they need it for favor rather than only a few quests that people run all the time.



> Are some skills still useless? I remember Spot and Listen helped you find traps, but since dungeons aren't dynamic, the traps are always in the same place. Tumble did not seem to do anything other than look funny, and stupidly enough there was some backflip maneuver you could do, but it required such high ranks that it was only possible when a wizard cast a a Tumble-buffing spell on you.




Yes, there are still some skills that are essentially useless, and Listen is definitely one of them. Spot is still useful because some of the traps are random now.

I took a break from DDO a few weeks ago, mostly because there are a lot of other games I wanted to play and I just got tired of the constant changes.  I completely expect things to change but Turbine will completely rewrite entire mechanics without provocation.  I also just tired of the grind and the horrid raid loot mechanic.  Not sure if I'll go back.  I still want to check out LotRO for a while too.


----------



## MarauderX (Jun 7, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> Downtime on DDO is extremely rare, and almost always announced well in advance.
> 
> Today's downtime is a scheduled hotfix announced yesterday, maybe Monday.
> 
> ...




The DDO servers were all down over a weekend earlier this year.  They credited everyone by giving every single PC a dragon shard.  I still haven't used any of mine, but I guess I'll wait until I feel like using a dragon mark or something.  It was unexpected and lasted days.  The messageboards were then swamped and went down for a time too.   

Too bad I didn't get my hands on a smite wand, would have been nice to go along with a vorpal toothpick.


----------



## MarauderX (Jun 7, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Yes, there are still some skills that are essentially useless, and Listen is definitely one of them. Spot is still useful because some of the traps are random now.




I think you mean search.  I never bothered with Spot or Listen, as in the beginning foes could just materialize whether your scores were high or not.  Now that I am playing a ranger it makes a big difference.  I went back to a high level fighter with 0 in each and got backstabbed by assassin duergar so many times I wish I had at least a boosting item.


----------



## GlassJaw (Jun 7, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> I think you mean search.




Nope, I meant Spot. 

In DDO, Spot is used for spotting hidden foes and determing the general location of a trap.  Some of the traps move around now so you can't just memorize their location.

Once you know the basic location of a trap, you use Search to find it (and make the box appear).

I'm also pretty sure they narrowed the range that Search will work, making Spot more useful.


----------



## Felon (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks for the info.

So, how about Tumble? Can characters now execute the uber-flip without arcane buffs?


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## MarauderX (Jun 9, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Nope, I meant Spot.
> 
> In DDO, Spot is used for spotting hidden foes and determing the general location of a trap.  Some of the traps move around now so you can't just memorize their location.
> 
> ...




Ahh I see.  Since I often am in quests where someone knows where the traps are, enough to set off their trapsense, I didn't think spot was used for that.


----------



## MarauderX (Jun 9, 2007)

Felon said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info.
> 
> So, how about Tumble? Can characters now execute the uber-flip without arcane buffs?




Well, yes, but with most skills you often need to hit a certain skill level to even make it worth trying.  Buffs & items make it happen that much faster.


----------



## MarauderX (Jul 27, 2007)

*Servers merging!  Beginning of the END?!?*

Per the DDO website, the developers are merging servers.  It's basically a 2 merged into 1 thing, explained as the need for players to find groups more easily.  \

No one will lose any characters, even if they've maxed out both of the servers that are going to be merged.  They just won't be able to make any new characters.  

Anyone still out there?


----------



## Kael Trask (Jul 30, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> I'm guessing you don't play DDO.  Try it, you'll like it!  Then try to find others to group with that aren't level 12...
> 
> Edit: This AM there were 56 on.  1/2 hour later it dropped to 32.




I tried it, hated it, now I don't play it.  It was NOT D&D as we know it, and it did a bad job of twisting the rules, and strangling character generation and creativity.  

My advice: Stick with WoW if you like that, CoH and CoV are still MY faves.

-Kael


----------



## werk (Jul 30, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Per the DDO website, the developers are merging servers.  It's basically a 2 merged into 1 thing, explained as the need for players to find groups more easily.  \
> 
> No one will lose any characters, even if they've maxed out both of the servers that are going to be merged.  They just won't be able to make any new characters.
> 
> Anyone still out there?




There were definitely not enough people playing on our server, Xoriat, so the merge should be good.  Could be the beginning of the end, but people have been crying it's the end since before it went live.  Same as people crying about downtime, this game has less downtime than any MMO I've ever played.

They lost a lot of people with the enhancement *cough*NERF*cough* revision.  It didn't bother me too much because I thought the PCs were rediculously over-powered at launch.

It's just not a game like WoW, which is evident by the nine characters I have on one server on one account, five of them capped on xp and over 1750 favor.  It's much more like a closed NWN begging for more content.  A lot of players start, and basically run out of material after a couple months.


----------



## edge3343 (Jul 30, 2007)

DDO gameplay is fantastic! It is a great diversion from the normal MMO formula. I'm not sure why it is dying. Maybe just because the MMO market is so overwhelmed with games. The only beef I have with DDO is the setting and art direction. I think the game looks terrible. I HATE the dwarf models and I HATE Eberron. I seriously HATE it. But once you get into a dungeon with a good group DDO is a great experience (even if Gary's voiceover skill leave a little to be desired   ).

I know on Fernia, on friday night, I couldn't find a group with my lvl 7 Clr. WTH is up with that. I am hoping the server merge will help A LOT!


----------



## werk (Aug 3, 2007)

Well, after the merge there are A LOT of people online anytime I check.  At 5pm central last night there were over 400 people on the who that were not anonymous.

But also the LAG is worse than a bonus XP weekend.  Some people were waiting MINUTES for attachments to show up on opened mail.  I ran stormcleave, which is notorious for have bugs sometimes, and didn't even get credit for finishing the quest while the rest of the party did.  I attribute that to the lag and freshly overloaded servers.


[deathrattle]


Age of Conan?


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## MarauderX (Aug 5, 2007)

While I have dislike the Eberron setting since the start, they have kept a lot of the parts I detest from DDO.  Mostly it's the shifters, changlings, and other goofy crap but it's beginning to develop now.  Dragonmarks are the beginning, but you have to give a few toys & trophies out to the hard-core players versus the casual guys like myself.  

I'm guessing LotR is stealing away some of the DDO fans, as the server merge is only a few months after LotR's release.  

Perhaps we should get something more gritty, dirty, and gruesome... when is Warhammer online coming and does it fit that bill?


----------



## darkseraphim (Aug 6, 2007)

The game deserved to die.  Ignoring 30 years of IP, no Forgotten Realms, no Greyhawk, no PvP until their arms were twisted, not enough content ... yeah.  Total mess.  Hopefully another company will try again and make a decent game.  LotRO isn't bad, however.


----------



## werk (Aug 7, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Perhaps we should get something more gritty, dirty, and gruesome...




Age of Conan.  All that you are talking about, with a mature rating.



			
				MarauderX said:
			
		

> when is Warhammer online coming and does it fit that bill?




No, and who cares?  so far the reviews have been lack-lustre and complain that it is buggy.  The whole thing is largely based around pvp, unlike Conan, where pvp is well integrated with other MMO standards.  And it keeps getting pushed back...

Conan Oct 30th 2007  (or so they say)


----------



## ControlFreak (Aug 8, 2007)

Regarding Warhammer Online:


			
				werk said:
			
		

> No, and who cares?  so far the reviews have been lack-lustre and complain that it is buggy.  The whole thing is largely based around pvp, unlike Conan, where pvp is well integrated with other MMO standards.  And it keeps getting pushed back...



Reviews? It's due out in like a year! What are they reviewing? The building where the developers work?

Both games are pvp/rvr-centric, so I expect a lot from both of them in that respect.

Warhammer has been pushed back because Mythic won't release it until it's ready. I have Conan pre-ordered at EB, but I expect that when we get that game you'll understand why it's better to push back a game than release it prematurely.


----------



## jeffh (Aug 12, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> I hope [DDO] dies soon so a new D&D game in the FR or Greyhawk can get started.



What makes you think the former would make the latter _more _likely, rather than less?


----------



## Silverblade The Ench (Aug 12, 2007)

1) I hate Ebberon, it's dead, no "soul", so that was a bad start.
2) In built voice made a HUGE difference! faster, more fun, actually "meeting" folk in a more recognizable manner was superb.
3) Dungeons, basic gameplay deisgn is excellent.
4) Turbone made a TOTAL mess otherwise.
6) Grossly too much/powerful loot, ugh. I like high magic in Spelljammer etc, but "vorpal swords for everyone" is STUPID! 
7) Mobs hit points and savesa re through the roof, skill DCS are crazy, forcing folk into munchkin builds to be able to do stuff, which is so very bad.
8) They added "Enhancements"..worst...idea...EVER. Adde dmore pwoer to players, so mobs were beefed up...you get the idea, nuclear arms race a 3rd year DM learns to avoid, for pity's sake!
9) Turbine need sshot for putting out so little content, it's beeyond a joke, 4-8 dungeons a MONTH. Hello, we go through that in 1 week!

All in all it's basically a very good game, but Tubine made a mess of it


----------



## Draxo (Aug 14, 2007)

I wanted to love DDO, but there were too many problems with it that i couldnt get to grips with.

1, Eberron.  In and of itself not too bad, as much as I would have prefered a different setting.

2, Set confined in a city:  When I play an MMO I want freedom to explore and adventure.  Very restrictive.

3, The races:  They didnt even finish the basic set before they came out with Drow for the Drizzt fanboys.  And really.. there was nothing for all of us who like to play non human-like races.  I wanted something like.. Kobolds.  I would have adored Kobolds!  And in Eberron it kinda works too.  

4, I didnt feel like a Hero.  I was on a Kobold Genocide (and i love Kobolds).  I felt like a villain really.. in some of the quests you were walking into the private homes of law abiding Kobolds to either kill them to take back something they legally bought because the merchant wants to sell ir on or.. you heard about the home of some Kobolds who had something and you decided to go, murder them and their friends and steal it?  Sorry.  I would have lost my Paladinhood.  Thats not heroic at all.

5, The deviation from the D&D system.  I'm sorry but they advertised it as D&D, what we were given wasnt D&D.  It just had a few.. D&Dish.. references and spell names.

6, Worst of all.. the party reliance on certain classes.  I couldnt play most times.  When I got a good group with a healer then all fine and dandy.  Wasnt always the case.. after sitting there for two hours LFG for the second day running I just left.  Cancelled my subscription, havent thought about it too much since.


----------



## MarauderX (Aug 19, 2007)

*4e...*

So I'm guessing that there will be no changes to DDO with the release of 4E.  With only 5 servers, groups are easier for the most part, but I'm wondering if content and other input will slacken.


----------



## Green Knight (Aug 22, 2007)

I played DDO for a while, but I also got sick of it after a while. A couple of my complaints... 

1) There's nothing wrong with Eberron as a setting, but if they're gonna make a D&D MMORPG, then it really should've been set in a setting which is more quintessentially D&D, like Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms. I don't know about anyone else, but when I think of D&D, Eberron isn't what my mind comes up with. It feels a bit to sci-fi, what with the Warforged and all. 

2) Setting everything in just the one city. It felt claustrophobic. Like playing World of Warcraft in just Stormwind. Sure, it's bigger then Stormwind, but the game world is nowhere near as big as WoW. Not to mention that all the wildernesses were instances, which also made it feel lonely. You never ran across anyone else, there. 

3) I didn't like the lack of mounts/pets/etc. A Druid's and Ranger's Animal Companions are pretty important things, as is the Wizard and Sorcerer's Familiar, and the Paladin's Special Mount, yet none of these were in the game. I wanted to see Druids padding around with a whole menagerie of animals behind them, but no such luck. And of course, thanks to the claustrophobic nature of the game world, there really wasn't much of a use for mounts, which would've been nice. Not to mention mounted combat. They could've done something which most other MMO's, as far as I know, don't have. Mounted combat. But they decided to pass the buck on that one (Fortunately Age of Conan will deliver in that regard). 

4) It would've been nice if it allowed more solo play. When I first started playing, it was great for solo play. But as I started levelling, it was harder and harder finding a quest that I could successfully solo. I don't mind teaming, but I don't like feeling like I have to team in order to progress in the game. Because if I can't find a team, then I'm stuck, and unable to do anything else in the game until I do find a game. If a DM wanted to, he could run a one player campaign. I'd like the same in D&D Online. Have a real option for solo play in all levels. 

5) The avatars weren't as detailed as I would've liked. I was looking forward to getting my first magic cloak, but you can imagine my disappointment when I finally got one only to find out that cloaks don't appear on the character. Neither do any magic boots, gloves, belts, or anything else your character wears. The only thing that appears is his armor, helmet, and weapons. That's it. While I like that the weapons look a lot more realistic and reasonable than the weapons in WoW, they could really do to take a page from WoW and model all those items so that they appear on the character, as they do on WoW characters, where even Bracers show up on the character, nevermind Boots, Gloves, etc. Oh yeah, and options for regular clothing would've been nice, too. Mundane cloaks, shirts, boots, etc, would've all been nice. 

6) It also would've been nice if they'd found a use for Detect Evil. I want to see how that power would look like. How does the Paladin see people when he uses Detect Evil? That's a question that could've been answered had they done something with Detect Evil and similar Detect Alignment powers, but instead, they decided to just skip over that stuff (Even though they did include Alignment). 

7) Where were the Prestige Classes? 

There were some good things about it, like built-in voice chat, and more intelligent monsters who don't run at you in a straight line and just stand there. But overall, I thought it was a pretty disappointing experience. If it were up to me, they'd make a new DDO, and this time base it around Forgotten Realms. It'd include the following: 

- Expansive game world which stretches from Waterdeep to the Vast. Zones would include: Waterdeep, Undermountain, The North, The Silver Marches, Silverymoon, The High Forest, Anauroch, The City of Shade, The Western Heartlands, Cormyr, Suzail, The Dalelands, Shadowdale, Myth Drannor, Sembia, The Ride, The Moonsea, Zhentil Keep, The Vast, Raven's Bluff. As they expanded, they'd add more areas like the Moonshaes and Evermeet, as well as adding in more cities, like Tantras, Mithral Hall, and so on. 

- With an expansive and wide-open game world, they've have mounts so people can better get around the world. The mounts would range from horses, warponies, and riding dogs, to griffons, dire lions, pegasi, and unicorns. With horses and the like being relatively easy to procure, while the rarer animals are a bit harder to get, especially the flying mounts (With the exception of classes like the Paladin, which would simply be able to designate such mounts as their Special Mount). Mounted combat would also be included, from mounted melee to mounted archery, and we'd also have lances and the like. We'd be able to give our mounts barding and other protection, and they'd function as a pet and fight when mounted or dismounted (Not in all cases. Only with some mounts, like Warhorses. Riding Horses and Ponies wouldn't fight), but of course, you run the risk of them getting killed and having to get a new mount. 

- There'd be roving monsters in all the zones, so not all encounters would be restricted to only instances. 

- Avatars would be more indepth, like WoW, showing all the various articles of clothing you're wearing, from cloaks and tabards, to boots, gloves, bracers, belts, and so on. There'd also be an option for changing the physique of the player, to make them short or tall, skinny or fat, as well as a lot more options for modelling the face and hair then what WoW provides. 

- Aside from mounts, there'd be other pets, like Familiars and Animal Companions. 

- Prestige Classes would be included, including setting specific ones. 

- Crafting would be included from the start. So Wizards/Sorcerers would be able to start making Potions and Scrolls pretty much from the word go. 

- There would be in-game games, like going to a tavern and playing Three-Dragon Ante, or Dragon Dice with other bar patrons. 

- Every instance would scale up or down depending on the strength of the players taking it on. So if there's a group of six, then it'd be a fair challenge for them. But against a group of three, it'd scale down to be a more appropriate challenge for them. And it'd scale down even further when it's just one player soloing it. 

- Players would have the option of playing any alignment, from Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil, and PVP would be allowed, although there'd be an option for players to avoid PVPing if they don't like it. Either by making PVP servers or giving a player the option to turn PVP on or off at will. Players would also be able to join both good and evil organizations, like the Harpers or the Zhentarim (Possibly through Prestige Classes and the like). 

Just a couple of ideas, of course. One can only hope, though, that they one day do release a good D&D MMO.


----------



## MarauderX (Aug 24, 2007)

Well, I'm still plugging away on DDO.  I gave WoW another spin, as well as a little of Guild Wars.  I came back as I have already forged my way through Stormreach and environs and I know my way around without problems.  I forgot that I like to steal some of the things out of the game for my own PnP game too.

I agree that Stormreach is pretty much a locked location.  Even EQ2 knew that they should provide a second cool setting at the start, but I think with Stormreach the idea was to keep building upon what was already there as a city, and have separate sub-zone towns with zones of their own too.  Some of the problem is I can't just walk across a wilderness zone to get to it, I just talk to someone and they take me there.  Even with the one adventure where you have to fight to defend the caravan in order to get to the zone doesn't encompass the feel and commitment of traveling.  Imagine... wandering monsters to stir up your little jaunt from Stormreach to Gianthold...

I agree that I would have gone with a different setting for DDO, but Eberron was the big push.  Now that FR is going to be the first to go into 4E, I am glad that Eberron and the rest of Keith Bakers goofy ideas are staying in 3.5 for a while.  

The problem not really solved by the server merge has been ease of gathering a party at low-mid level.  Though I haven't kept track, it seems most postings are running in the 10+ levels again.  I hope that Turbine decides to give accounts more characters more easily to keep players interested in starting new PCs to keep the population across levels a little more even.


----------



## AKM (Aug 25, 2007)

DDO is dead? You mean... it was alive at one point?

I was in the beta, and I nearly cried. The only thing that was really D&D in it... was the name. I was so looking forward to it, but the ultimate result... ugh... *goes to dust off Baldur's Gate*


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## MarauderX (Aug 27, 2007)

AKM said:
			
		

> DDO is dead? You mean... it was alive at one point?
> 
> I was in the beta, and I nearly cried. The only thing that was really D&D in it... was the name. I was so looking forward to it, but the ultimate result... ugh... *goes to dust off Baldur's Gate*




Well, there was Baldur's gate that had nearly everything, but even then there was dissent because you couldn't do *anything*.  DDO is live, real-time action, and translating that from a turn-based game can't be easy.  

Perhaps Age of Conan will be an experience point buy system, allowing you to mingle sorcery with swords...


----------



## Man in the Funny Hat (Aug 28, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> DDO is live, real-time action, and translating that from a turn-based game can't be easy.



...Nor is it even a GOOD IDEA.

D&D is a _turn-based game_.  Making it into an MMO or RTS _could_ result in a decent game - but NOT a decent D&D game.  Not ever.  JMO


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## Rhone1 (Sep 5, 2007)

I met one a former Turbine devloper at Gen Con a few weeks ago, here's what he said..."Turbine tried to self finance the project and ran into financial issues (didn't put enough money into the project).  DDO was rushed along (the just got it out there before there was enough content) was too fast.  They butchered the essence of D&D by having non-D&D er's make/develop the game."  He also felt that D&D would make a come back at some point to the mmo arena with something different when DDO died.

For those of you that haven't played the game, it really is beautiful to look at (visually) and Eberron could be a excellent setting, but there were probably too many hurdles for this game to overcome.


----------



## Brewhammer (Sep 9, 2007)

Rhone1 said:
			
		

> He also felt that D&D would make a come back at some point to the mmo arena with something different when DDO died.




I surely hope so.  Someone sorely needs to capitalize on FR as an MMO setting.  I remember thinking, every time I walked into Stormwind in WoW or Qeynos in EQ2... "Damnit, this should be Waterdeep."


----------



## MarauderX (Sep 25, 2007)

DDO is a little livelier this morning.  It looks like the server merge didn't quite solve the problem of finding groups, but at least there are ~120 people online at a normally slow hour.  

I'm still disliking Eberron after doing a one-shot game.  Thankfully DDO doesn't have shifters, changlings, or goblins.  The supplement books to Eberron are more over the top than DDO to me, so maybe Turbine was just following orders - Welcome to Eberron, here's your vorpal holy avenger.


----------



## werk (Oct 1, 2007)

The 5th module really fixed some nagging problems, made some functional and attractive upgrades to the UI, and improved engine and connectivity performance.

DDO is almost to a point that I would not be embarassed to release it for sale.

FYI


----------



## Ghostwind (Oct 2, 2007)

I just started playing and I'm trying to like it. There doesn't seem to be very many people playing when I do (during the day) so finding someone to group with is probably going to be a challenge.


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## MarauderX (Oct 9, 2007)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> I just started playing and I'm trying to like it. There doesn't seem to be very many people playing when I do (during the day) so finding someone to group with is probably going to be a challenge.




I feel your pain.  It seems most of the players are in the USA and finding a group late at night or during a work day is kinda tough, even now after the server merge.  This morning there was a rough count of about 100 or so online.  

The updates are pretty nice.  The big things that I like are the percent chance of using a wand and AC calculations for armor.  I don't think I'd be embarrassed any more as a DDO player, except that you have to fight the reputation it already has.


----------



## werk (Oct 9, 2007)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> I just started playing and I'm trying to like it. There doesn't seem to be very many people playing when I do (during the day) so finding someone to group with is probably going to be a challenge.




Must find a guild that is active at those times.  It's hard, but a comment in your Who player comment field may get some response.

If you are on Thelanis, our guild is active pretty much anytime the servers are up.  You may not get a full guild group, but you can find a couple of people that you can count on not sucking so bad that you scream and throw things (PUGs make me do this).


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## MarauderX (Oct 18, 2007)

werk said:
			
		

> you can count on not sucking so bad that you scream and throw things (PUGs make me do this).




Most of the pick up groups I'm in are pretty good now.  I think a lot of the clueless fighter-clerics (for example, 10th level cleric WITHOUT raise dead, but somehow thinks casting bless makes up for it) have decreased.  

I agree that during off-peak hours it can be really quiet for grouping, but then I get some hope when I see that there are still 100+ people logged on and less than 50% are 14th level.


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## MarauderX (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok, so the DDO and the LotR servers have been down for a while...

I guess we'll get another shard for our wait.  

In the meantime, how many have given the dragon at the end of VoN5-6 a beatdown?  And how many times did it take before you could do it?


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## werk (Nov 27, 2007)

MarauderX said:
			
		

> Ok, so the DDO and the LotR servers have been down for a while...
> 
> I guess we'll get another shard for our wait.
> 
> In the meantime, how many have given the dragon at the end of VoN5-6 a beatdown?  And how many times did it take before you could do it?




Yeah, something about the authentication server upgrade going kaput...

I've killed Velah the dragon more times than I know, and was successful right from the start, at lvl 10.  The best strategy, still, is to run up as a group behind her right front leg, spam mass heals, and beat the piss out of her.  It works like a charm as long as eveyone goes together and stays tight.  

Everytime I've tried to run it differently we've failed.

Failure has happened when people try to 'break' it by hiding in safe spots or splitting up or somesuch (gets the whole group that follows direction melted) or when we fail at simultaneously falling the pillars and run out of time trying to run around the ele's.  

Same with the DQ and Reaver, with the reaver being easiest due to it's insta-reset raid quality.  At this point I really don't run the dragon...I can get better items looting the orchard rares or GH quests.  

And I hate the current raid loot system.


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## MarauderX (Nov 29, 2007)

*Candy Canes*

Yay.  A reward for a prolonged downtime is a 30-charge candy cane for each character.  A healer burns that up in one adventure, let alone one day.  I guess I should be happy we got anything at all.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Dec 1, 2007)

Well heck, I just downloaded it to run on my iMac with Windows Parallels, and it WON'T load! i get some strange message: "corestrings.dll is missing string ID 131>[131]

Grr. I've got a message into tech support, but this may be the end of my DDO experiment.


----------



## Man in the Funny Hat (Dec 1, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> Well heck, I just downloaded it to run on my iMac with Windows Parallels, and it WON'T load! i get some strange message: "corestrings.dll is missing string ID 131>[131]
> 
> Grr. I've got a message into tech support, but this may be the end of my DDO experiment.



You'll thank yourself later.  I mean - what were you thinking?


----------



## Remus Lupin (Dec 1, 2007)

I was thinking I'd like to take a look.


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## Man in the Funny Hat (Dec 3, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> I was thinking I'd like to take a look.



Nothing to see here.  Move along...  Move along...  

I personally set City of Heroes aside for the first time in months and started up WoW again.


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## haakon1 (Dec 3, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, Turbine -- which is the most prominent publisher of MMORPGs that have gone belly-up -- tried to sell everyone half a loaf.
> 
> The D&D players got something that wasn't quite D&D.
> 
> ...




Exactly.  One of my friends (a long-time D&D player who I've never gamed with) and his 8 year old son showed me DDO, but I was not much interested, because it just wasn't D&D.  The 8 year old was having fun, but only fairly limited amounts of fun.  The elements that, to me, sucked, were the elements of non-D&D:
-- no encumbrance limited, so lots and lots of gear
-- PvP arena with respawning
-- automatic healing for walking around
-- act by yourself, instead of in teams
-- what you do doesn't matter to the universe -- everything resets after you leave.
-- uninspired setting with no "historical" value
-- rules sort of sound like D&D, but aren't.

Perhaps some of these issues (no parties and resetting universe) are inherent to MMORPG's, but the least they could do is follow D&D rules.

What's interesting from all this is whether WOTC will take its clue from the failed DDO in WoWing up D&D, or if it will realize that "new Coking" things is bad for business.  We'll see.


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## haakon1 (Dec 3, 2007)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> And, frankly, given how badly Atari has botched almost everything associated with the D&D license, I have no problem tarring and feathering them with this one, too.




As a former shareholder, I gotta say Atari . . . well, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, but dump the shares, like I did.  Hopefully somebody more competent will buy the name.


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## Remus Lupin (Dec 4, 2007)

Man in the Funny Hat said:
			
		

> You'll thank yourself later.  I mean - what were you thinking?




OK, I give. Tech support was no help, and it's not worth the tsoris just to play a game that's getting so widely panned.


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## Green Knight (Dec 4, 2007)

I was recently invited to play in an Eberron campaign, so I thought I'd give DDO another try, just to get myself into an Eberron mood. But man, this thread killed that desire quite nicely. Thanks for saving me $15.


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## MarauderX (Dec 8, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> OK, I give. Tech support was no help, and it's not worth the tsoris just to play a game that's getting so widely panned.




Sorry, it probably something to do with playing on a MAC.  I don't think Turbine is investing the depth to get the MAC players on board.


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## MarauderX (Dec 8, 2007)

haakon1 said:
			
		

> The elements that, to me, sucked, were the elements of non-D&D:
> -- no encumbrance limited, so lots and lots of gear
> -- automatic healing for walking around
> -- act by yourself, instead of in teams
> -- what you do doesn't matter to the universe -- everything resets after you leave.




A few things that are included:  
Encumberance, so you think twice about picking up a set of plate mail just to sell it in the market.  And you don't have lots and lots of gear as you need to quest to gain backpack slots.  
Healing for walking around is slow, but met a wide-spread demand for it as an MMO.  And you don't heal this way when you are in zones where nasties can show up.  
As with all MMOs, you need to be able to do some quests solo, as many players like to solo through the game.  
A fair number of quests and quest givers allow you to gain status, items, and access to new quests.  It is an MMO, so the whole game world isn't rocked by your 14th level bard failing to kill the CR 18 dragon.


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## MarauderX (Dec 30, 2007)

*Mod 6 Preview*

I gotta hand it to Turbine at least keeping the plots & writing top-notch.  With the servers melded down to 5 there are a lot more gamers, and almost every pick-up group is filled with quality team players.  

Mod 6 is coming out soon, and here  is a preview.


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