# New Avatar tonight



## DMH (Sep 15, 2006)

Just a heads up since it has been a while since the last new one.


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 15, 2006)

Thank you, for the posting this. Yupe, one hour today folks.


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## JoeGKushner (Sep 15, 2006)

I'm waiting for the boxed set.


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 15, 2006)

Get it at Amazon.com...it is there soon to go.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Sep 15, 2006)

Truth Seeker said:
			
		

> Get it at Amazon.com...it is there soon to go.



Next Tuesday  

Here's to hoping that we get a few more weeks of new Avatar after tonight's double-feature.


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## Nightfall (Sep 15, 2006)

Don,

No...but we are getting a strip of Avatar eps starting the 25th.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Sep 16, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> No...but we are getting a strip of Avatar eps starting the 25th.



According to Nick.com's own TV schedule, there's a new Avatar ep on the 22nd at 8pm.

I remember the commercials for the reshowings of season 1 starting on the 25th, which would be nice and all, but by that point I'll have the box set.


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## Dog Moon (Sep 16, 2006)

Dang, missed 'em...


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## Donovan Morningfire (Sep 18, 2006)

Well, odds are good they're going to get repeated at some point.

Though it turns out Nick showed the "Fury of Aang" episodes and "Secret of FN" episodes back to back earlier today.


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## D.Shaffer (Sep 18, 2006)

Ah Sokka,
What you lack in bending talent, you make up for with the ladies.


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 22, 2006)

As long he is not Capt. James T. Kirk, me fine as he is.  


			
				D.Shaffer said:
			
		

> Ah Sokka,
> What you lack in bending talent, you make up for with the ladies.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Sep 23, 2006)

Another new episode last night.

As interesting as the whole "corrupt regime" angle for Team Avatar was, the fight between Jet and Zuko was a lot more enjoyable.  And undoubtedly proves that even without his firebending Zuko is one tough customer.

Considering we're coming into the last stretch of Season 2, I'm thinking the corrupt regime bit is going to play a major role in the season finale, and possibly pave the way for Zuko to join Team Avatar as Aang's firebending teacher; not sure about Iroh given that his original VA, Mako, passed away some months ago.


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## Dog Moon (Sep 23, 2006)

Crap, another new ep I missed?  Got to start remembering that it's on Friday nights...


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## Nightfall (Sep 23, 2006)

Dog,

Other than the fight between Jet and Zuko, trust me you didn't miss that much. That being said I am pleased by the return of a great villian VA in Clancy Brown. His Gorath and Lex Luthor were among the best villians I can recall in some time. This new one reminds me of Lex's subtle moves with Gorath's "cultural purity". I am looking forward seeing the next new one. And yeah we are into the home stretch. It is sad that Mako isn't among us any more...but maybe Jeong will instruct both Zuko and Aang instead of Zuko. (Zuko's fire bending skills aren't exactly stellar. But his fighting skills are truly impressive.)


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## Donovan Morningfire (Sep 25, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Zuko's fire bending skills aren't exactly stellar. But his fighting skills are truly impressive.



Considering that he's been able to hold his own against at least two other masters (beating Admiral Zhao twice and doing pretty well against Azula, who is considered a prodigy), I'd say you're selling Zuko short; he's come a long way through struggle and determination.  Besides, long before Katara was officially trained in waterbending she managed to teach Aang a fair amount, so it's quite possible that Zuko could do a decent job of teaching Aang, if it came down to it.

Jeong was good for a single episode character, but I don't think he'd cut it as a series regular.


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## bento (Sep 25, 2006)

Picked up the box set this weekend and re-watched the first episode last night.  Zuko is shown going through his exercises and getting lectured by Iroh on technique.  It will be interesting to see how his current predicament will end.  

Here's my bet on the season ending cliffhanger - Iroh becomes Aang's teacher for a short while and then dies or is killed defending the group.  Circumstances are unclear to everyone about this and Zuko renews his promise to take the Avatar down as revenge for his uncle's death.

For those of you who picked up the box set, I noticed that the DVD video quality on the first episode wasn't as great as when I watch the show via DBS.  Anyone else notice this?  I'm hoping it's just the first episode, or the first DVD perhaps.  Let me know your experience with it.

Thanks.


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## Nightfall (Sep 25, 2006)

Bento,

Nice theory but I think you're missing a good bit of what's already occured in Book Two. For one thing, even if Zuko does as you suggest, it won't help him that much. But your other theory certainly has merit. 

Eh maybe Don, but until I see it, I'm not sure I'll believe it.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Sep 30, 2006)

New Avatar tonight.

"Tales of Ba Sing Se"

A series of vignittes for each of the characters.

Including a very touching dedication to Mako at the end of Iroh's vignette.

I think I heard Zuko fangirls around the world cry at the end of his vignette.  Smooth operator the boy ain't, but you've got to give him credit for trying, especially towards the end.  I guess he's just too emotionally screwed-up right now.

Aang has certainly come a long way in terms of Earthbending.

And it would certainly appear that Sokka is definitely channeling essence of Kirk when it comes to the ladies after his impromptu performance at a haiku theater  

Next episode deals with where Appa has been these past few episodes.


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## Nightfall (Sep 30, 2006)

Don,

I must have missed the preview for the next ep. It was confirmed we'll get a new ep next friday? Cool!

*also loved the dedication to Mako in the Iroh vignette* That totally rocked.

He was channelling Kirk? I thought he was channelling Marshall "Eminem" Mathers's Eight mile there...


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## DMH (Sep 30, 2006)

There is not a new episode next week. IMDB does have a listing of when the remaining ones for season 2 are suppost to air.

I can't wait to see what Koh is going to do in the season finale.


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## Dog Moon (Sep 30, 2006)

Another new ep?  *cries*  I bet that ended at nine too...


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## Donovan Morningfire (Oct 2, 2006)

Dog Moon said:
			
		

> Another new ep?  *cries*  I bet that ended at nine too...



Amazingly, they got a lot done in only a half hour.

Nightfall,
Maybe he was channelilng both of them?  Eminem for the poetry (which is essentially what rap is, poetry set to music), and Kirk for getting the girls all giggly 

DMH,
I didn't think there was a new episode for this week; I remember seeing on the Avatar wiki page that it's scheduled for the 13th.


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## D.Shaffer (Oct 2, 2006)

He was channeling plenty of Kirk before this. This just confirms matters.  And just a bit of '8 mile' here.  I'd actually like to see the girl Sokka was 'haiku battling' with again.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Oct 3, 2006)

D.Shaffer said:
			
		

> He was channeling plenty of Kirk before this. This just confirms matters.  And just a bit of '8 mile' here.  I'd actually like to see the girl Sokka was 'haiku battling' with again.



Fair enough.

Though of the various new characters, I'd rather see Jin before the Haiku woman.  After all the crap that life has been handing him, he deserves a second chance, maybe when things aren't so "complicated."

"This was so much easier in my head."
- Aang on trying to move a bunch of zoo animals to outside one of the walls of Ba Sing Se.


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## DMH (Oct 13, 2006)

Another new one tonight.


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## Nightfall (Oct 14, 2006)

Yep this one entirely from Appa's PoV. Should be rather interesting to see what he has seen.


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## stevelabny (Oct 14, 2006)

Luckily, I scored a super nifty plushie Appa just last week in time for this episode.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Oct 16, 2006)

I really liked this one.

Highlight for spoilers: 



Spoiler



Maybe "Appa's Lost Days" could be seen as filler, but it really made you feel sorry for Appa.  I couldn't help but thinking that save for some off-kilter timing, he and the gAang would have been re-united a whole lot sooner.  And oddly enough, the only reason Appa is in Ba Sing Se is becuase that's where Aang when to find Appa.  And it did set-up a confrontation between the gAang and the Dai Li; I'm thinking the season finale will have Aang causing a lot of destruction in the Avatar state, possibly becuase of Aang finding that Appa has been severly mistreated.

I imagine that lots of fans went "squeee!" at the sight of chibi-Aang and chibi-Appa (I'm a male adult and I still thought that scene was cute).

The guru guy was kinda neat, especially how he just waited for Appa to fall asleep before getting up.

I didn't really care for Ty Lee's "prettier than you" remark during the fight, but since she's been shown to be a bit of a random bubblehead, I guess it sorta fits.  I was rather impressed that Suki was able to hold of Azula as long as she was able (I don't think she got killed, but I doubt she necessarily won either).


Spoiler end (I gotta figure out how to do the nifty spoiler box at some point)


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 16, 2006)

This was a great eps...!!!


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## Truth Seeker (Nov 17, 2006)

*BUMP!!!*  Tonight's Avatar is new, the theme...'The Earth King'.


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## Nightfall (Nov 17, 2006)

Truth,

Well hopefully now the kids get to fight Long Feng and the Dai Le. What concerns me more is the implications after this ep. Next up is the 2 part season finale featuring Azula trying something truly diabolic. (Man I hate that little sociopath. I mean I've had a few others I disliked but there's just something inherently wrong about that girl.) Plus the Guru probably starts handing out destinies. But most shocking (to me) Katara apparently hooks up with Zuko?! 
Dude...


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## Truth Seeker (Nov 17, 2006)

Yes, yes...there is so much 'wrong'. It's delicious


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## Dog Moon (Nov 18, 2006)

Truth Seeker said:
			
		

> *BUMP!!!*  Tonight's Avatar is new, the theme...'The Earth King'.




Oh whew.  Was like SWEET! when I saw the thread title, but then awwww, when I saw the dates, and the SWEET! again when I saw this post.  So much emotion in such a little time.


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## Nightfall (Nov 18, 2006)

Dog,

I know it's a long wait between eps, but I think Dec 1 will be a huge Christmas treat for Avatar fans. Especially if that teaser was any indication. 

But back to this ep. I knew when Sokka said "It's all smooth sailing from here!" something bad was going to happen. Little did I know how right I was. I figured Long Fei wasn't done, was only slightly surprised Toph got herself captured, but mostly was the end. Wow. I hated Azula before, but man she's damn devious! Make you realise just how well this show is written, that nothing is ever truly concidental. But I honestly didn't see that coming. I mean I figure we might see her but to have her show up like that...wow. Props Azula. No one can say you don't have conjones.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Nov 18, 2006)

Missed the first few minutes due to scheduleing kookiness on Nick's part (started at 7:50 or somesuch).

"Long Feng is long gone... I've been waiting to use that one."

This felt much like Episode 1-18 "Waterbending Master" from last year, with being a set-up for the two-part season finale.

I give Aang credit for trying to tell Katara how he feels about her (curse Sokka's timing), but I think she got the message   

As soon as the three Kyoshi warriors were mentioned, I suspected it was Ozai's Angels in disguise.  And Sokka asked the EK to give them the royal treatment too.

And I'm sure all the Zuko fangrrls were in their glory at seeing him shirtless for most of the episode, even if they were momentarily scarred by seeing a bald Zuko with an arrow on his head.

December 1st can't get here fast enough...


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## Nightfall (Nov 18, 2006)

Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> As soon as the three Kyoshi warriors were mentioned, I suspected it was Ozai's Angels in disguise.




Really cause that was the one that actually threw me. I mean I figured Long Fei and the Dai Lee weren't going to give up power that easily. Same with Toph getting captured. (I had thought it would be more like Mom showed up, tells Toph off and then has her daughter captured but eh...) But that whole thing Ozai's angels...never saw it. I hope though Suki's okay. It would suck royally if she was dead. 



			
				Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> December 1st can't get here fast enough...



Amen to that! I want to see Aang go off on Azula. I mean if only because she's such a you know what...and she deserved to be knocked down a peg.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Nov 20, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Really cause that was the one that actually threw me. I mean I figured Long Fei and the Dai Lee weren't going to give up power that easily. Same with Toph getting captured. (I had thought it would be more like Mom showed up, tells Toph off and then has her daughter captured but eh...) But that whole thing Ozai's angels...never saw it. I hope though Suki's okay. It would suck royally if she was dead.



Well, after "Appa's Lost Days" and seeing the Avatar's "fan girls" getting their butts whomped (Suki's the only one that was really able to put up a fight), and then the guy saying that exactly three Kyoshi Warriors showed up at the gate, I just thought it was too much of a coincidence.  As for Toph, I'm kinda glad that we might see some closure regarding those two bounty hunters.



> Amen to that! I want to see Aang go off on Azula. I mean if only because she's such a you know what...and she deserved to be knocked down a peg.



I thought Aang's already knocked her down a peg, after the events of "The Drill."  Like Mai said, they lost.  And it was due (from their point of view) to a twelve-year old bald kid.

What would really bruise Azula's ego would be little Zuzu defeating her, or even using Iroh's lightning redirection trick on her.


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## Dog Moon (Nov 20, 2006)

Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> I thought Aang's already knocked her down a peg, after the events of "The Drill."  Like Mai said, they lost.  And it was due (from their point of view) to a twelve-year old bald kid.




You know, it sounds bad to get beaten by a 12 year old and if it was just any 12 year old, yeah that would be bad, but he's the Avatar and when you're the Avatar, it doesn't really matter how old you are: you're still tremendously powerful.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Nov 20, 2006)

Dog Moon said:
			
		

> You know, it sounds bad to get beaten by a 12 year old and if it was just any 12 year old, yeah that would be bad, but he's the Avatar and when you're the Avatar, it doesn't really matter how old you are: you're still tremendously powerful.



But also bear in mind Azula's character.  She's a fourteen year old perfectionist that has always been "daddy's little angel," adored by countless members of the Fire Lord's court for being smart/powerful/cunning/etc.  The first two times she confronted Aang, he escaped by virtue of the assistance of others; Bumi in "Return to Omashu", the unexpected appearance of Zuko and Iroh in "The Chase".  But in "The Drill," it was Aang vs. Azula with nobody helping out, and Aang wasn't exhausted from running without sleep.

To someone with Azula's ego, getting bested by a twelve-year old boy has got to be pretty painful to swallow, Avatar or not.


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## Chaldfont (Nov 20, 2006)

I love this show. The last couple of episodes have had some great action scenes. I'm loving the big-scale earth bending.

So who's the poor earth bending janitor that has to go around and fix all this damage to the landscape? Maybe that's "Ole Sweepy's" job.


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## Nightfall (Nov 21, 2006)

Don,

Yeah well just because it happened didn't mean they couldn't have a) survived and b) gotten back to Ba Sing Sae to warn the capital about Azula's little outing. That being said, I honestly think Azula might be annoyed with Aang, but she might rationalize it better since he is the Avatar. But fighting Zuko...eh. She'll probably yawn and laugh. Which is why I think she might actually know fear if/when Aang truly comes into his powers. Remember folks we have no idea how the combination of the Avatar state might work in combination with any/all types of bending. Heck we could even see the birth of "Captain Planet Aang" type deal. Just saying.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Nov 21, 2006)

Chaldfont said:
			
		

> I love this show. The last couple of episodes have had some great action scenes. I'm loving the big-scale earth bending.
> 
> So who's the poor earth bending janitor that has to go around and fix all this damage to the landscape? Maybe that's "Ole Sweepy's" job.



I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Public Works department of Ba Sing Se, which is probably tied in part to the Dai Li (especially given the zookeeper's comment about how the Dai Li wouldn't give his zoo money because it wasn't attracting kids).

Ol' Sweepy would just be cleaning up all the excess dirt/dust.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Nov 21, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Don,
> 
> Yeah well just because it happened didn't mean they couldn't have a) survived and b) gotten back to Ba Sing Sae to warn the capital about Azula's little outing.



Given that this is airing on Nick, I doubt the Kyoshi girls are dead.  And it could very well be that Aang and Sokka are warned about Azula's litle disguise routine while away from Ba Sing Se.


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## Nightfall (Nov 22, 2006)

Don,

I doubt it as well but death can happen. Just not on screen. This isn't Naruto after all.   As for Aang and Sokka being warned...eh it's concieveable but I'm doubtful on that point.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Nov 22, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Don,
> 
> I doubt it as well but death can happen. Just not on screen. This isn't Naruto after all.   As for Aang and Sokka being warned...eh it's concieveable but I'm doubtful on that point.



I agree death can happen (Zhao anyone? or Monk Gyatso?), but considering Sokka's already lost one potential love interest (Yue at the end of Book 1), I don't think the writers are going to off Suki just yet.  Personally, I'd like to have Sokka pull off a daring rescue mission to save her, and get back the confidence he's lost since the Seige of the North Pole.

As for Aang or Sokka, it could very well happen.  Heck, it could happen to Aang when he's having his lessons with the Guru, as he gets a "spiritual insight" that the fox has snuck into the hen house.


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## bento (Dec 1, 2006)

BUMP!

Last episode of the season on tomorrow night, 7PM Central.

Looked at the guide listing on my DBS and Sokka to meet his father mentioned as well as the other anticipated goodies.

Can't wait - I even cancelled gaming night with the guys to stay home with the kids and watch.


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## Nightfall (Dec 1, 2006)

Bento,

Should be good since this is a two parter season finale. I can't wait to see Aang cut loose.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Dec 1, 2006)

From the preview clips and trailers that I've seen, we're going to see just about all the 'benders "cut loose."

- Katara using that Octopus water-bending stance from "Cave of Two Lovers"
- Iroh, aka "Dragon of the West," breathing fire  
- Zuko (hopefully) showing a greater control of firebending than he has in the past (perhaps his spiritual metamorphosis from "Earth King" will ease his vast inner turmoil).
- Aang "glowing it up" big time.  Last finale he bonded with an ancient elemental spirit and took out a whole fleet.

I wasn't disappointed with last season's finale, and given the overall jump in story quality for Season 2, this one shouldn't disappoint.


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## Truth Seeker (Dec 2, 2006)

I salute you for the game cancellation.

I salute you, that the kids and you, have something  in common.

SALUTE!  




			
				bento said:
			
		

> BUMP!
> 
> Last episode of the season on tomorrow night, 7PM Central.
> 
> ...


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## Nightfall (Dec 2, 2006)

Wow.

I mean the last 15 minutes of the show...wow. I salute Guru Palthick(sp) for his introduction of chakra (not just for Ninjas any more!  ), plus Iroh's fire bending skills. Wow.

But Zuko...and Aang...seriously some major, major developments I didn't foresee. 

This is so why I watch this show.


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## bento (Dec 2, 2006)

Zuko's choice at the end, that's what makes this much more than a kids show.   

DIdn't want to post until I saw the other episode that came before it.  Now that I'm all caught up on the story, it certainly gives you something to think about.  

I thought Aang's quick tutorial on chakras went too easily.  Most people struggle for years to open them up, but he IS the avatar right?  One little item that made me cringe was after going back to save Katara, he easily lied to Sokka that he completed his mission to the Eastern temple.  Ouch.

The ending should give the next season even more of an on-edge feel.  Where can they go to next - back to the South Pole?


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## Nightfall (Dec 2, 2006)

Bento,

I'm more interested if the Avatar Spirit/State is still viable or not. Cause without it, I think Aang and the gang are screwed. Location doesn't much matter so much as Aang's ability and what do about the Fire Nation.

Zuko's betrayal...wow. That was just unreal. I just can't believe he chose to side with Azula. I can understand why...sort of. But the fact is, if it had been me, I'd spit in Azula's face, gotten myself a real army and invaded the Fire Nation, THEN ruled with an iron fist. Dad and sister are just too crazy to be in charge.


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## Truth Seeker (Dec 2, 2006)

Just incredible, just insanely incredible.

The level of personal drama that went on.

I have to watch it again, just for the stuff to sink in.


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## The Blue Elf (Dec 2, 2006)

Well I saw Season Finally last night.


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## Nightfall (Dec 3, 2006)

Truth,

Agreed. That was just so much to see and it was truly...remarkable.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Dec 3, 2006)

I'll admit I was a bit surprised and disappointed in Zuko's decision at the end, especially afted he'd made so much progress throughout the season.  But Azula dangled just the right bait in front of him, kind of like dangling a bottle of quality scotch in front of a recovering alcholic.  Now I'm not sure if Zuko is going to "redeemed" as one of the good guys at the series' end.  But if he was waiting for the opportune moment to make the right decision, he missed it by a country mile.  I still think he's the most psychologically complex/interesting character in the series.

I loved Iroh's prelude about his being called Dragon of the West.  And it shows just how good-natured he is that he was willing to give Aang advice, even though previous circumstances had them on opposite sides.  Aang could do a lot worse than to have Iroh as his fire-bending teacher.

The Guru/Chakra scenes were neat.  It might also have been the fact that that particularly episode only had 30 minutes to deal with a whole lot of things in addition to Aang's meditations that cueball seemed to 'unblock his chakras' so quickly.  But then again, he is the Avatar, and has shown to be fairly spiritual (just not as informed about the spirit realm as he should be).  As for his lie to Sokka, it wouldn't be the first time that he's glossed over the truth.  And he did know what steps needed to be taken to unlock the Avatar State; he just hadn't taken them yet, so what Aang said was true, from a certain point of view   

Of course, now the question is "did Aang actually die while in the Avatar State?"  He could have just been gravely wounded, and were it not for Katara and the Spirit Oasis water would have died.  But there's also the bit that his arrow glowed briefly as he "came back."  From a writer's perspective, I kind of hope Aang's ability to access the Avatar State is damaged, since being able to draw on that kind of power at-will makes it really hard to challenge the group.  Kind of like having Hercules tagging along with a group of low-level heroes to raid an orc warren.

I'm wasn't too surprised that Toph is apparently the first earthbender to bend metal, since as the Guru explained metal is still tied to the element of earth, and Toph seems to be the top earthbender in the series.

Azula as an evil, manipulative little witch?  Check, especially with her speech to the Dai Li and her ending words to Zuko.  Ty Lee being ditzy with funny/weird/vapid lines?  Check.


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## Truth Seeker (Dec 3, 2006)

Watching again, today. 

UPDATE: After viewing, without commericals. This piece was well done, as a major shakeup point. I am totally floored at the pace and depth, on how it was done. A true masterpiece of the unexpected moments.

A sidenote:I have just learned, that the voice of _Uncle Iroh_, formerly done by *Mako*, will be giving to another, no names have been offered as of yet.


			
				Nightfall said:
			
		

> Truth,
> 
> Agreed. That was just so much to see and it was truly...remarkable.


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## Nightfall (Dec 4, 2006)

Truth,

Well it's not like they can bring back Mako. I think it's a wise choice that they get someone else after all. Avatar is a great series.

Don,

My hatred of Azula remains as hot as ever. My respect for her abilities however have gone up some with her coup of Ba Sing Sae. That was a pretty masterful stroke on her part.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Dec 4, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Don,
> 
> My hatred of Azula remains as hot as ever. My respect for her abilities however have gone up some with her coup of Ba Sing Sae. That was a pretty masterful stroke on her part.



I've seen on the AvatarSpirit.net message boards discussions regarding Azula's value as a villain; one-dimensional or fleshed-out?  I'd say the finale paints her as pretty well fleshed-out; she had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and she certainly made the most out of it, even going so far as to turn the Dai Le against their founder/leader without throwing a single fire blast.  As much as everyone raves about Mako's voice work for Iroh, I loved Grey Delisle's work for Azula.  Terrifying, yet inspiring at the same time   Be a heck of a femme fatale if the character wasn't underage.

Season 2 has proven to Avatar's "Empire Strikes Back."

Now just to hope that Sokka and Katara don't fight alongside a horde of fuzzy midgets at the end of Season 3.  Though I am still hoping for an eventual redemption of Zuko (let's just hope he doesn't have to pay the final price that Anakin paid).


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## bento (Dec 4, 2006)

Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> Season 2 has proven to Avatar's "Empire Strikes Back."



Bingo - my kids and I were comparing the two the day after.



			
				Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> Though I am still hoping for an eventual redemption of Zuko (let's just hope he doesn't have to pay the final price that Anakin paid).



Nope - I think he has to go through the ultimate sacrifice.  Even if he was to continue on, he's proven to be too fragile to be reliable.  If he was ever to grow a backbone and begin fighting the good fight, this was it.  From here on out he'll not only be a target for Aang & Co., but also Azula as she snipes at his back to further her own gains.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Dec 5, 2006)

bento said:
			
		

> Nope - I think he has to go through the ultimate sacrifice.  Even if he was to continue on, he's proven to be too fragile to be reliable.  If he was ever to grow a backbone and begin fighting the good fight, this was it.  From here on out he'll not only be a target for Aang & Co., but also Azula as she snipes at his back to further her own gains.



Oh I'm not saying his redemption has to be painless.  But I'd rather it be psychological as he finally owns up to the simple fact that he's caused so much pain by his actions, and not only to himself.  As a character, he's still growing.  I think it's a good sign that at the end of the episode, even after Azula gives him a comforting speech and shows him more affection (geniune or not is irrelevant) than anyone other than Iroh has ever freely given him, Zuko is still torn up inside about the consequences of his actions, and that he betrayed the one person that was always there for him (even if, as I kinda theorize, he felt that Iroh had "betrayed" him by going to the Avatar for help).  Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the writers of the show, but I can't see them tossing out a full season of character development just have Zuko's spiritual journey end on such a sour note.

Heck, for all we know, his aiding Azula was part of a very hastily formed plan to keep him and Iroh from being imprisoned/killed by her or the Dai Le.  And to him, if he could get him and uncle out of danger and maybe even salvage his "honor," then so much the better.  Too bad that old saying about a certain road and good intentions is all too often true.

Now that I've actually sat down and mulled the episodes over, I think Zuko acting the way he did will make for a much better story than him taking the expected path and leaping to Aang's side.  By his own admission, Zuko's always had to struggle in life, so why should his redemption be any different.  Though again, I'd like for him to survive it, unlike Jet, who managed to redeem himself but has (apparantly) paid the ultimate cost for his sins.


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## Victim (Dec 5, 2006)

Are there any reruns for this show?  I have alot of catching up to do.


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## Nightfall (Dec 5, 2006)

Victim,

Probably but I have no idea when. 

Don,

Grey has done a number of good characters, but you are probably right as this will stand out as one of her best. Sort of like comparing Mako's Aku, Mark Hammil's Joker, or even Ron Pearlman's Hellboy/Slade. (Tied in my opinion since both are excellent characters). 

I agree this season finale was definitely Empire Strikes Back end worthy. I also hope no furry bears warriors are used to fight against the Empire/Fire Nation. 

I honestly think Jet isn't dead. But then again I admit to being wrong here.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Dec 5, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Don,
> 
> Grey has done a number of good characters, but you are probably right as this will stand out as one of her best. Sort of like comparing Mako's Aku, Mark Hammil's Joker, or even Ron Pearlman's Hellboy/Slade. (Tied in my opinion since both are excellent characters).
> 
> I agree this season finale was definitely Empire Strikes Back end worthy. I also hope no furry bears warriors are used to fight against the Empire/Fire Nation.



That's some mighty impressive company, though given her performance in the finale, I can't really argue the point otherwise.  Just being included with Mako, who I think is awesome regardless of what role he's playing.

I think we've gotten enough furry bears in the form of the Earth King's pet bear (I still chuckle at the whole bear discussion from City of Walls & Secrets).


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## DMH (Dec 5, 2006)

Victim, it is on Nick at 6:30 and Nick Toons 2:30 and 10:00 (both PM and EST). They have different episodes on each channel.


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## bento (Dec 5, 2006)

Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> Oh I'm not saying his redemption has to be painless.  But I'd rather it be psychological as he finally owns up to the simple fact that he's caused so much pain by his actions, and not only to himself.  As a character, he's still growing.  I think it's a good sign that at the end of the episode, even after Azula gives him a comforting speech and shows him more affection (geniune or not is irrelevant) than anyone other than Iroh has ever freely given him, Zuko is still torn up inside about the consequences of his actions, and that he betrayed the one person that was always there for him (even if, as I kinda theorize, he felt that Iroh had "betrayed" him by going to the Avatar for help).  Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the writers of the show, but I can't see them tossing out a full season of character development just have Zuko's spiritual journey end on such a sour note.



I guess that's the thing - no matter how much we want a story to go in one direction, the creator, who has the ability to push things into another direction, with a bigger payoff.  To me though Zuko's final actions was like tossing out a half season of character development.  



			
				Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> Heck, for all we know, his aiding Azula was part of a very hastily formed plan to keep him and Iroh from being imprisoned/killed by her or the Dai Le.  And to him, if he could get him and uncle out of danger and maybe even salvage his "honor," then so much the better.  Too bad that old saying about a certain road and good intentions is all too often true.



I think there was no better time to get the edge against Azula than when she squared off against Aang and Katara.  The Dai Le was still in a state of hesitation, and if Azula couldn't pull off the fight against those three, I don't think they would have come in to give her a final push to victory.  But this is just one viewer's opinions and not the creators, right?



			
				Donovan Morningfire said:
			
		

> Now that I've actually sat down and mulled the episodes over, I think Zuko acting the way he did will make for a much better story than him taking the expected path and leaping to Aang's side.  By his own admission, Zuko's always had to struggle in life, so why should his redemption be any different.  Though again, I'd like for him to survive it, unlike Jet, who managed to redeem himself but has (apparantly) paid the ultimate cost for his sins.



No doubt - a pat ending where everyone wins would not truely be satisfying at this point.  Seeing the characters twist and turn more certainly raises the anticipation when the series kicks off again!


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## Donovan Morningfire (Dec 7, 2006)

Hey, I never said it was a good plan.  Zuko's never been one for strategy.

Heck, he may not have even fully decided until the very last moment.  After all, it was his intent to join Azula outright, he did have a pretty sweet shot at a totally unaware Aang.  But instead, he launched a fireblast to let everyone know that he was there.

Also, by that point I doubt the Dai Le were hesitating.  Not a that long prior, they had turned on their leader, whom just one episode prior the Dai Le had said they remained loyal to.  They were solidly in Azula's camp.  The only reason they were hanging back was because Azula, being as cocky and self-confident as she is, told them not to interfere until she gave a signal.  Heck, she may have even figured that she could handle Aang and Katara on her own (last time she fought Aang, he just barely squeaked out a victory).

As for Zuko, I don't see it as tossing out half a season of character development.  He had many years prior to the series to become the person he was when the show started, and having him change overnight would be disappointing.  He's still developing, the look of regret when it sunk in what the consequences for his choice to betray Iroh shows that he hasn't regressed back to his "angry boy" routine from the first season.  And again, Azula tempted him with the perfect bait, saying exactly what deep down inside he's been desparate to hear since his mother vanished.


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