# The Theory of Everything (trailer)



## Kramodlog (Aug 6, 2014)

Love. Love is the unifying force in the universe. /roll eyes

[video=youtube;Salz7uGp72c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Salz7uGp72c#t=73[/video]


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## Crothian (Aug 7, 2014)

Of course it is. Is this not what the 60's taught us?


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## Umbran (Aug 7, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Love. Love is the unifying force in the universe. /roll eyes




Somewhere, someone came up with the idea that cynicism and jadedness were cool.  Whoever that was did a great disservice to the human race.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 7, 2014)

Umbran said:


> Somewhere, someone came up with the idea that cynicism and jadedness were cool.  Whoever that was did a great disservice to the human race.



Over used and false trope, is over used and false, it is a simple fact.


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## Mercurius (Aug 7, 2014)

Umbran said:


> Somewhere, someone came up with the idea that cynicism and jadedness were cool.  Whoever that was did a great disservice to the human race.




You deserve uber-XP for this, Umbran, but evidently I must spread the love around.

What you say is almost a cultural epidemic, especially among Gen X and Yers, related to what I've called "hipster apathy." I see it ranging across cultural spheres and forms of media, where if art isn't gloomy and dark then it must be shmaltzy and saccharine. 

I find this particularly irking in fantasy fiction, where the classic secondary world quest fantasy has been subsumed by the "grimdark" movement. I think this especially took hold when _A Song of Ice and Fire _became popular in the late 90s, but then blossomed in the 00s. Now it is hard to find a good old farmboy-to-prophecied quest fantasy that doesn't involve torture porn or sado-masochism of some kind. 

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of grim-and-gritty fantasy, such as ASoIF, Erikson's Malazan, Bakker's A Prince of Nothing, etc. But I miss the days of fantasy that wasn't so fixated on the darker side of life. There are still a bunch of authors in this vein, but they seem the minority these days.


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## Scott DeWar (Aug 7, 2014)

Mercurius said:


> You deserve uber-XP for this, Umbran, but evidently I must spread the love around.




I took care of it for you.


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## Janx (Aug 8, 2014)

Umbran said:


> Somewhere, someone came up with the idea that cynicism and jadedness were cool.  Whoever that was did a great disservice to the human race.




I guess the question is, are people who are positive and all hippy dippy more successful than the negative nancies?

I suspect the negative movement became cool because it was easier to single out the happy people and make fun of them as being "unrealistic" when it was more a matter of the hipsters were failing to achieve the same level.

I think the key meaning to Umbran's statement is that if we lived in a world where folks didn't think being negative was cool, and hippy dippy stuff was unattainable, our world would actually be a better place.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 8, 2014)

Mercurius said:


> You deserve uber-XP for this, Umbran, but evidently I must spread the love around.
> 
> What you say is almost a cultural epidemic, especially among Gen X and Yers, related to what I've called "hipster apathy." I see it ranging across cultural spheres and forms of media, where if art isn't gloomy and dark then it must be shmaltzy and saccharine.



Yeah, cause cynicism is a new thing kids are into these days. Back in the day it didn't exist. Damn beatniks!



> I find this particularly irking in fantasy fiction, where the classic secondary world quest fantasy has been subsumed by the "grimdark" movement. I think this especially took hold when _A Song of Ice and Fire _became popular in the late 90s, but then blossomed in the 00s. Now it is hard to find a good *old* farmboy-to-prophecied quest fantasy that doesn't involve torture porn or sado-masochism of some kind.



Bolded the key word. That is the problem right there. People get tired of the same old crap. Love is superdoubleplusgood is overdone. 

Especially considering that Hawking divorced twice and was abusive. 



> Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of grim-and-gritty fantasy, such as ASoIF, Erikson's Malazan, Bakker's A Prince of Nothing, etc. But I miss the days of fantasy that wasn't so fixated on the darker side of life. There are still a bunch of authors in this vein, but they seem the minority these days.



It is just that there is more diversity nowadays. The audience is fragmented, so the books out there will reflect that. It is not a dichotomy between two styles.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Aug 8, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Especially considering that Hawking divorced twice and was abusive.



What did he do? Run his wheelchair into his wives's feet?


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## Umbran (Aug 8, 2014)

Janx said:


> I guess the question is, are people who are positive and all hippy dippy more successful than the negative nancies?




And, before we do that, define "success".  



> I think the key meaning to Umbran's statement is that if we lived in a world where folks didn't think being negative was cool, and hippy dippy stuff was unattainable, our world would actually be a better place.




The idea that good things are unattainable is self-fulfilling prophecy - if you don't believe it can happen, you certainly won't try to make it happen.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 8, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> What did he do? Run his wheelchair into his wives's feet?



I'm guessing psychological, but hoping sexual.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 8, 2014)

Umbran said:


> The idea that good things are unattainable is self-fulfilling prophecy - if you don't believe it can happen, you certainly won't try to make it happen.



Sure you can, people are full of contradictions.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Aug 9, 2014)

goldomark said:


> I'm guessing psychological, but hoping sexual.



I bet that's what he was hoping for. Now both of you can be disappointed together.


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## Umbran (Aug 9, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Sure you can, people are full of contradictions.




To spring off the thread title, yes, in theory, you can.  Technically, it is possible.

In actuality, as a practical matter?  Not in general, no.  Historical precedent is on my side, here - once people stop believing in a thing, they stop working for it.


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## Mercurius (Aug 9, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Yeah, cause cynicism is a new thing kids are into these days. Back in the day it didn't exist. Damn beatniks!




Did I say that cynicism is new to the last few decades? No. I think it has just been more institutionalized. Part of it is intelligence - less naivete, perhaps. But a lot of it is hipster apathy and a kind of "dark is cool" chic.



goldomark said:


> Bolded the key word. That is the problem right there. People get tired of the same old crap. Love is superdoubleplusgood is overdone.




Shmaltzy love, sure. But love will never be overdone. 



goldomark said:


> It is just that there is more diversity nowadays. The audience is fragmented, so the books out there will reflect that. It is not a dichotomy between two styles.




I agree that there is more diversity, which is a good thing. But I do think the kind of epic quest fantasy that I'm talking about is at a low point, at least since the boom of the 80s - and over-shadowed by the grim-n-gritty stuff. I think it will rise again, though.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 15, 2014)

Hmm. Seems it is goes into more of Hawkings like than Benedict Cumberbatch's "Hawking". (The latter only went into the first two years or so of his disease). 

It seems to ignore that Hawking divorced however. (Hawking did only cover the first 2 or so years of his disease, so it did not come up in that show, though I think it was mentioned in the credits).

Though I do not think that makes him a horrible person or devalues what he achieved in his scientific career, or what he had to go through. But I think it devalues a movie a bit if it spins a fairy tale out of a real person's life. That has little to do (to me), with "hipster apathy" - I think it could actually make an interesting story to really learn how they fell into love, married, but then grew apart, him founding new love. But on the other hand - maybe it is not a story you can really tell with a man suffering from a rare disability that also happens to be a scientific genius. It could be a bit ... overloaded in terms of story.

If Hawking didn't exist and someone wrote a story about such a man, no one would believe it. It stretches the disbelief suspenders too much. "So, you tell me, this guy suffers from a disease that kills you after 2 years or so normally. But he lives to old age. And he speaks via a computer. And despite being paralysed, he has multiple children and wives. Oh, and he's a genius and  a successful author. Too bad he doesn't fight crime, you could probably sell this to Marvel."


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## WayneLigon (Aug 15, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Bolded the key word. That is the problem right there. People get tired of the same old crap. Love is superdoubleplusgood is overdone.




That people keep seeing movies about the power of love, and reading books about farmboys who become famous, would seem to indicate that they don't in fact get tired of the basic story framework - just when it's done poorly.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 16, 2014)

WayneLigon said:


> That people keep seeing movies about the power of love, and reading books about farmboys who become famous, would seem to indicate that they don't in fact get tired of the basic story framework - just when it's done poorly.



People see it because they like it or because that is what is offered? Take TV and movies, producers are afraid to try new stuff, they prefere to make stuff that they know was popular.


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## calronmoonflower (Aug 17, 2014)

Ah, forty two?



goldomark said:


> People see it because they like it or because that is what is offered?



Because they like it. Tropes are devices that writers can reasonably rely on to recognize and respond to.



> Take TV and movies, producers are afraid to try new stuff, they prefere to make stuff that they know was popular.



Gosh, it is like they want to make money or something. As it is, if you break things down far enough, even widely different movies often follow very similar formulas and noting can really said to be 'new'. If you don't then new stuff it presented regularly along with rehashed stuff.

The Hero's Journey
Ten Movie Plots
The Seven Basic Plots


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## Kramodlog (Aug 17, 2014)

calronmoonflower said:


> Gosh, it is like they want to make money or something.



Something that can be done with by using something else than the ubiquitous "love is all", especially considering it is not true.


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## calronmoonflower (Aug 17, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Something that can be done with by using something else than the ubiquitous "love is all", especially considering it is not true.



Actually it doesn't, based on the trailer. It looks more like a reference to the concept of a grand unified theory than to love.


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## Kramodlog (Aug 18, 2014)

calronmoonflower said:


> Actually it doesn't, based on the trailer. It looks more like a reference to the concept of a grand unified theory than to love.



Well we all know about your troubled relationship with emotions and reading between the lines.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 18, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Especially considering that Hawking divorced twice and was abusive.



By the way, the only thing I found about that is that his first wife felt as citizen 2nd class in the conservative Oxford, and she has called him a house tyrant. But they seem to be on better terms now.
But he may also have been a victim of abuse by his second wife and former nurse. (Source is a German article: http://rollingplanet.net/2012/01/09...vatleben-mit-viel-stoff-fur-ein-groses-drama/)


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## Kramodlog (Aug 19, 2014)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> By the way, the only thing I found about that is that his first wife felt as citizen 2nd class in the conservative Oxford, and she has called him a house tyrant. But they seem to be on better terms now.
> But he may also have been a victim of abuse by his second wife and former nurse. (Source is a German article: http://rollingplanet.net/2012/01/09...vatleben-mit-viel-stoff-fur-ein-groses-drama/)



Love conquers all.


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## calronmoonflower (Aug 20, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Well we all know about your troubled relationship with emotions and reading between the lines.



Your response is highly illogical.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 1, 2014)

calronmoonflower said:


> Your response is highly illogical.



Are you Old Sporck or Young Parallel Universe Sporck?


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## Jack7 (Sep 1, 2014)

*Oh, modern man...*

*I SAW THE CYNIC
*
The modern man thinks cynicism a wondrous form of strength
Everything to him is trope, a bitter truth, the length
Of his shortened rod by which he whips out at the world
If only his so little rod were not so inward curled

But cynic odd, or love be damned, the fulsome of it all
Seems to flee out of his mouth as if he juggled balls
Like a jongleur of old times who loved a bit too much
To hear himself recount the tale of H.R. Puffnstuf

How can love, or hero-stuff lead to better lives?
I don’t know, I just work here, I’ll have mine with chives
For turtle soup is this day’s catch, or maybe not so fast
What the hell is this about, Odysseus at last?

Look here comes the Jabberwock to bundersnatch us up
For if you’re selling your despair we’ll all just have a cup
So drink up lads, and drink it deep, nothing really cures
Epicurus had his day, ‘gainst that we’re all inured

Yet maybe still they hope to sneak like vipers in the grass
Some little thing to give us joy or even make us laugh
None of that – now off with you, you’ll not breed hope round here!
I’ll be damned before all that – you think me insincere?

Oh modern man, oh modern man, to hear the siren’s wail
Satire’s anchor caught below, eight bells and all is well
I saw the Cynic with a lamp, Diogenes his name
He sought a man he never found, that loss his only fame

Yet we’ve done better haven’t we? Now everyman is him
We’ve no lamps to light our way, but Hell we’re in the trim
So cynic this and whine of that and wail to weeping skies
I see the cynic everywhere, his mask is no disguise


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## calronmoonflower (Sep 1, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Are you Old Sporck or Young Parallel Universe Sporck?



Well, it is Spock (no r), from the TV series.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 2, 2014)

calronmoonflower said:


> Well, it is Spock (no r), from the TV series.



Nope. [video=youtube;OTfBH-XFdSc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTfBH-XFdSc[/video]


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## calronmoonflower (Sep 3, 2014)

*But very Vulcan like.*



goldomark said:


> Nope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTfBH-XFdSc



Your confusion of a joke with facts is illogical.


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## Kramodlog (Sep 3, 2014)

calronmoonflower said:


> Your confusion of a joke with facts is illogical.



Hello kettle!


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## calronmoonflower (Sep 4, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Hello kettle!




"Oho!" said the pot to the kettle;
 "You are dirty and ugly and black!
 Sure no one would think you were metal,
 Except when you're given a crack."
 "Not so! not so!" kettle said to the pot;
 "'Tis your own dirty image you see;
 For I am so clean – without blemish or blot –
That your blackness is mirrored in me."


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