# Good Bard/Paladin build?



## Ry (Apr 18, 2007)

I'll be playing in a new campaign in a few weeks, and I was told a paladin would be a good idea.  I was thinking of taking my first level in Bard, though, to get the first song.  Besides taking Devoted Performer, does anyone have suggestions on a strong Paladin build?  I have 11 levels to play with.


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## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

You have a lot of excellent options available if the DM allows a variety of sourcebooks.  If not, I'm afraid your options are much more severely limited.

You may want to look at the divine bard, the prestige paladin, and the troubadour of stars.  Those can be combined: the divine bard means you cast divine spells, the prestige paladin advances existing divine casting, and the troubadour of stars is for exalted good bards.  For a more paladin-like focus, divine bard/prestige paladin/fist of raziel is good.

Divine bard, prestige paladin: UA
ToS, FoR: BoED


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## Legildur (Apr 18, 2007)

Human Pal11. Cha/Str/Con/Wis in that order (a 16 Wis would be nice to get the bonus 3rd level spell, but hardly necessary).

For a sword-and-board holy warrior take the option from PHBII where you sacrifice your special mount ability to gain double damage on a charge.

Feats:
1 - Power Attack
1 (human bonus) - Cleave
3 - Extra Smiting
6 - Divine Might
9 - Extra Smiting

Can now smite evil 7/day. Start mixing in the Divine Might, some Power Attack, and the double damage from a charge, and it gets pretty messy pretty quick.

I wouldn't bother with a level of Bard, but it could be interesting.


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## Monkey Boy (Apr 18, 2007)

How about this:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=795369

level 3 Bard, 17 Crusader. Works just fine through all levels. Buffer that the party will love and that can fight like a champ.


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## FireLance (Apr 18, 2007)

Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn allows you to expend one daily use of bardic music as a free action to get your Charisma bonus to hit with a slashing weapon you wield in one hand for a number of rounds equal to your ranks in Perform (dance). At 11th level, with Devoted Performer, you ought to have enough daily uses of bardic music to activate this at least once per fight, and enough ranks in Perform (dance) to maintain it for an entire encounter (you will be fatigued for the next 10 minutes after Snowflake Wardance). The only downside is that you can't use it when using a shield, or medium or heavy armor, or when carrying a medium or heavy load.


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## Ry (Apr 18, 2007)

I have access to most sourcebooks, notably not Tome of Magic, UA, and Book of 9 Swords.  The party has all the 4 basic roles covered, so I think they're looking for special abilities more than direct damage.  Still, I'd rather ditch the mount, or maybe take the riding dog attack-mount, since I don't anticipate tons of outdoor combat that isn't flying.


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## Darklone (Apr 18, 2007)

Go gnome riding dog paladin with bard levels. You don't have to care about the multiclass rule, can enjoy spiderclimb on your dog... and all the while pipe around with bagpipes or some other silly stuff. Totally earnest.

If you don't wanna ride, do bard7/pal4. Divine Might goodness and self buff bard spells. Gnome helps with hitpoints and you'll hit nicely, if someone grapples you, have your mount break the grapple


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## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> I have access to most sourcebooks, notably not Tome of Magic, UA, and Book of 9 Swords.  The party has all the 4 basic roles covered, so I think they're looking for special abilities more than direct damage.  Still, I'd rather ditch the mount, or maybe take the riding dog attack-mount, since I don't anticipate tons of outdoor combat that isn't flying.




I'd recommend divine bard/prestige paladin/fist of raziel, then.  You can inspire, you get the basic paladin aura, and you also get a permanent magic circle vs. evil.

The only problem is that the prestige paladin requires mounted combat.  You can always be elf and take Skylord for a flying mount later, though.


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## irdeggman (Apr 18, 2007)

You'd most likely need to be a lightly armored paladin since bards only have no ASF in light armors unless you took the battlecaster feat.


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## Trench (Apr 18, 2007)

Interestingly enough, I have a level 4 lizardman bard/paladin NPC I could use some help with as well.

Let me know if it's kosher to hijack the thread. I mostly need his skills looked at to make sure I accounted for the LA and racial skill points correctly.


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## szilard (Apr 18, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> I'll be playing in a new campaign in a few weeks, and I was told a paladin would be a good idea.  I was thinking of taking my first level in Bard, though, to get the first song.  Besides taking Devoted Performer, does anyone have suggestions on a strong Paladin build?  I have 11 levels to play with.




If you can, you might want to consider Marshall instead of Bard - the Auras are faster to enact, improve with your Charisma, and all of your abilities are usable in heavy armor.

-Stuart


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## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Trench said:
			
		

> Interestingly enough, I have a level 4 lizardman bard/paladin NPC I could use some help with as well.
> 
> Let me know if it's kosher to hijack the thread. I mostly need his skills looked at to make sure I accounted for the LA and racial skill points correctly.




I'd recommend posting a new thread and putting it in the Character subsection.


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## Ry (Apr 18, 2007)

szilard said:
			
		

> If you can, you might want to consider Marshall instead of Bard - the Auras are faster to enact, improve with your Charisma, and all of your abilities are usable in heavy armor.
> 
> -Stuart




Now there's an idea... hmm... marshall, eh?


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## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, if we're going to suggest other classes, he should technically look at sorcerer, dragon shaman, spellthief, and knight as well.


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## Trench (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I'd recommend posting a new thread and putting it in the Character subsection.





Will do. Thanks.


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## Ry (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I'd recommend divine bard/prestige paladin/fist of raziel, then.  You can inspire, you get the basic paladin aura, and you also get a permanent magic circle vs. evil.
> 
> The only problem is that the prestige paladin requires mounted combat.  You can always be elf and take Skylord for a flying mount later, though.




Yeah, I can't use UA at all, though.


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## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> Yeah, I can't use UA at all, though.




Oops; somehow I missed that.  Sorry!    The regular bard/regular paladin/FoR is still possible, though less optimal.

Paladin/Sorcerer is amusing for true strike and wraithstrike.  Some choose to mix it with Dragon Disciple, but that class is not widely held in much esteem.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 18, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> Now there's an idea... hmm... marshall, eh?




I've only had my Knight/Marshal in play for one session, and already it is one of my favourite classes. You have fewer buffs to choose from, but you have the bonus of having one (and starting at second level, two) always up so long as your conscious. And being able to give DR 1/- at second level (or third, for my guy) for every ally within 60' is pretty spiffy.

And even if you don't have the MiniHB, you can get it at the Wizard's site.


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## Darklone (Apr 18, 2007)

If you want a DR aura, go dragon shaman.


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## seans23 (Apr 18, 2007)

I assume alignment doesn't matter in your campaign?


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## StreamOfTheSky (Apr 19, 2007)

seans23 said:
			
		

> I assume alignment doesn't matter in your campaign?




No, he said he's taking the Devoted Performer feat.  That allows you to play a LG bard/paladin and also lets you freely multiclass between them.  Among other benefits.


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## Ry (Apr 19, 2007)

Well, the feat Devoted Performer lets you be in both as long as you're Lawful good.  So you can take Bard 1 as Neutral Good, switch to Lawful Good for Paladin 1, Paladin 2 take the feat and then freely multiclass back.


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## Darklone (Apr 19, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> Well, the feat Devoted Performer lets you be in both as long as you're Lawful good.  So you can take Bard 1 as Neutral Good, switch to Lawful Good for Paladin 1, Paladin 2 take the feat and then freely multiclass back.



Or you might talk your DM into allowing you to take the feat at level 1 without meeting all the prerequs. Yet it makes somehow sense.

A paladin/bard might make a great archer... Divine Might and Bards song both adds nicely to damage, the bard levels add haste and UMD... and you don't need many feats.


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## seans23 (Apr 19, 2007)

rycanada said:
			
		

> Well, the feat Devoted Performer lets you be in both as long as you're Lawful good.  So you can take Bard 1 as Neutral Good, switch to Lawful Good for Paladin 1, Paladin 2 take the feat and then freely multiclass back.




I'm not really into alignment changes unless a player roleplays it.  Otherwise it seems kinda munchkin... but I guess if you're starting out at 12th level it would be ok.  As long as there's a backstory.


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## moritheil (Apr 20, 2007)

seans23 said:
			
		

> I'm not really into alignment changes unless a player roleplays it.  Otherwise it seems kinda munchkin... but I guess if you're starting out at 12th level it would be ok.  As long as there's a backstory.




True, though with paladins there is an established archetype of having received a divine calling . . .


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## Ry (Apr 20, 2007)

Was a bard who revered Pelor.

Was convinced by other paladins that the best way to serve the good was through Law.


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## Wish (Apr 20, 2007)

Human male bard 3/marshall 1/paladin 7.

Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 20 (includes 2 level bumps and +2 cloak).  28 point buy.

Feats:
1) Power Attack.
H) Cleave (or whatever)
3) Devoted Performer
6) Song of the Heart
9) Divine Might
M) Skill Focus - Diplomacy

Marshall aura: Motivate Dexterity (+5 Init, Dex check, Dex-based skill checks)
Bard song 10/day (+2 hit and damage, +3 with Inspirational boost 3/day)

Skills: (36 bard, 14 paladin, 4 marshall = 54 total ranks)
Perform 8 ranks
Diplomacy 14 ranks (total should be around +28 or so)
Sense Motive 5 ranks
Bluff 5 ranks
Nobility and Royalty 5 ranks
Religion 14 ranks
Whatever 5 ranks


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## brehobit (Apr 20, 2007)

Wish said:
			
		

> Human male bard 3/marshall 1/paladin 7.
> 
> Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 20 (includes 2 level bumps and +2 cloak).  28 point buy.
> 
> ...




Nice build!  Some quick comments
Song of the Heart is an Eberron feat, and might not be allowed.  

I'd consider taking the aura that adds to flanking damage or perhaps to CHR-based rolls.  Makes the party a lot more frendly.  (And moves you up to +32 or so on diplomacy)

If you have more than 28 points, I'd try to get dex up to at least a 12, maybe a 14.

Mark


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