# [OT]  Computer upgrades (was: RAM upgrades)



## Heretic Apostate (Sep 12, 2002)

What does upgrading your RAM do?  I'm currently at 128MB of RAM.  If I were to upgrade to 256MB of RAM, what could I expect?  Would things run faster, since there's more memory?  It's a cheap upgrade, I think, only about $60 or so.  But money's tight (I still have to replace the MS Office Pro that I lent out and never got back, dangit...), so if it won't make a major improvement, not much point.

(I'm considering adding another Hard Drive, but I only used 12 out of 27 GB of my 30GB hard drive.  As a side question, what happened to the other 3GB I paid for?)


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## Psionicist (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: [OT]  RAM upgrades*



			
				Heretic Apostate said:
			
		

> *What does upgrading your RAM do?  I'm currently at 128MB of RAM.  If I were to upgrade to 256MB of RAM, what could I expect?  Would things run faster, since there's more memory?  It's a cheap upgrade, I think, only about $60 or so.  But money's tight (I still have to replace the MS Office Pro that I lent out and never got back, dangit...), so if it won't make a major improvement, not much point.
> 
> (I'm considering adding another Hard Drive, but I only used 12 out of 27 GB of my 30GB hard drive.  As a side question, what happened to the other 3GB I paid for?) *




Do you multitask alot? That is do your run many programs open at the same time? If so, you WILL notice a difference. WinXP is very picky with RAM. You need around 512mb for total smoothness. W2k only need 256mb for the same feel...

I need 512mb:
http://psionicist.online.fr/stuff/merram.gif


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## Staffan (Sep 12, 2002)

More RAM makes things go faster. The reason is that when you run out of physical RAM, the OS swaps lesser-used portions of memory out to the hard drive ("virtual memory"). Reading and writing to the HD is *much* slower than reading/writing RAM. The more physical memory you have, the less swapping is needed which makes the whole thing run faster.


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## Morrus (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: [OT]  RAM upgrades*



			
				Psionicist said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Do you multitask alot? That is do your run many programs open at the same time? If so, you WILL notice a difference. WinXP is very picky with RAM. You need around 512mb for total smoothness. W2k only need 256mb for the same feel...
> 
> ...




Wow... are you (as a human, not your computer) actually able to deal with 16 applications/windows simulataneously?  If I have more than 3-4 open, I close 'em.


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## Tsyr (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: [OT]  RAM upgrades*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Wow... are you (as a human, not your computer) actually able to deal with 16 applications/windows simulataneously?  If I have more than 3-4 open, I close 'em. *




I run with 5+ open just as a BASELINE most times... a few explorer windows, Sysreset, ICQ, and Winamp.

Right now I have open:

Five IE windows
Two folders on my hard drive
Sysreset (An enhanced version of mIRC)
ICQ
JASC Paint Shop Pro
GetRight handeling 2 seperate downloads
Grokster
Winamp
StarOffice (For a school paper I should be writing but am not)
cGoban (Internet program for playing Go over the KGS network)


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## omokage (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: [OT]  RAM upgrades*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *Wow... are you (as a human, not your computer) actually able to deal with 16 applications/windows simulataneously?  If I have more than 3-4 open, I close 'em. *




I also tend to do about a dozen things at a time on the computer.


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## Psionicist (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: [OT]  RAM upgrades*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Wow... are you (as a human, not your computer) actually able to deal with 16 applications/windows simulataneously?  If I have more than 3-4 open, I close 'em. *




Yup. When it comes to multitasking, I am pretty femaleish.


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## Morrus (Sep 12, 2002)

Cripes.  If I was trying to deal with that many different tasks, I'd explode - never mind my computer!


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## Heretic Apostate (Sep 12, 2002)

Okay, few more questions.

From a computer games perspective (playing everything from old DOS games, some of which need MOSLO, all the way to new and upcoming games), what are the disadvantages from moving from WinME to WinXP?  I think I remember reading that MOO3, for instance, won't be supported on WinXP, but that just means they haven't tested it.

Next, anyone know of a reliable and reputable online dealer that offers academic discounts?  That's how I get most of my non-game software.   But it's been a few years, and I don't know of one any more.  It looks like I may have to buy MS Office Pro XP, since I can't find a cheap MS Office Pro 2000 from a dealer I'd trust.  (I'm bidding on one on eBay, but the guy has a 19 rating, so I'm not bidding much more than $80....)  I tried to buy one from Yahoo shopping for $150, but their supplier ran out of stock. 

How hard is it to upgrade a chip?  Right now, I have a P3 733.  What is the best upgrade I can do with the minimum of swapping out?  (For instance, I seem to recall that motherboards are rather specific to the type of chip.  I might be able to use the same motherboard for a faster P3, but I don't think I'd be able to upgrade to a P4, right?)

Argh.  Not that I can afford to buy much right now.   But after I get that job, I'm going to want to set my computer up enough so I don't have to buy a new one.  Or maybe, if the upgrades are too expensive, I'll just buy a new computer and ship the old one off to my sister, who's still runing on a 486-DX2.


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## Welverin (Sep 12, 2002)

Heretic Apostate said:
			
		

> *(I'm considering adding another Hard Drive, but I only used 12 out of 27 GB of my 30GB hard drive. As a side question, what happened to the other 3GB I paid for?)*




Don't bother with a new one if you're not even using half yet.

As for the missing 3GB's there my be more than one reason but part of it has to be fuzzy counting (a kb is not equal to 1000 b).



> *How hard is it to upgrade a chip?  Right now, I have a P3 733.  What is the best upgrade I can do with the minimum of swapping out?  (For instance, I seem to recall that motherboards are rather specific to the type of chip.  I might be able to use the same motherboard for a faster P3, but I don't think I'd be able to upgrade to a P4, right?)*




You right about not being able to upgrade to a P4 without a new motherboard, and you'll need to do some checking in order to find out if you can upgrade yourcpu at all.


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## omokage (Sep 12, 2002)

In my experience, there are no disadvantages in XP's support of games. If any program written for Win9x/ME has trouble in XP, it can be run in "Compatability Mode," which is MS slang for the fact that there is a Win9x/ME and a WinNT emulator. I have never had any problems with Compatibility Mode myself and have noticed only performance bonuses to using WinXP over Win98SE.

As Welverin said, most of the reason you're getting 27Gig for the advertised 30 is that there are 1024MB per GB, but it is usually rounded to 1000 in advertising. Also, some (very small) hard drive space is allocated to maintaining the file system--the database that dictates how information is organized on the drive.


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## Psionicist (Sep 12, 2002)

Heretic Apostate said:
			
		

> *(I'm considering adding another Hard Drive, but I only used 12 out of 27 GB of my 30GB hard drive.  As a side question, what happened to the other 3GB I paid for?) *




Harddrives and most permanent storage devices count 1 KB as 1000 bytes. This is however not correct. You have probably heard that 1 byte equal 8 bits (8 zeroes and ones)?. You cannot divide 1000 with 8 without having some extra bits you cannot use right? However, 1024/8 works just fine!

Anyhow, the base is not 1000, but 1024. Now
1 GB = 1024 MB = 1024*1024 KB = 1024*1024*1024 B = 1024*1024*1024*8 bits.
However, when it comes to harddrives, we use
1 GB = 1000 MB = 1000*1000 KB... and so on.

So, Your 30 GB harddrive is actually 30 (true) GIGA byte, but not 30 "computer-GIGA" bytes.

This is why your harddrive is smaller than it says...


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## Psionicist (Sep 12, 2002)

Heretic Apostate said:
			
		

> *How hard is it to upgrade a chip?  Right now, I have a P3 733.  What is the best upgrade I can do with the minimum of swapping out?  (For instance, I seem to recall that motherboards are rather specific to the type of chip.  I might be able to use the same motherboard for a faster P3, but I don't think I'd be able to upgrade to a P4, right?)
> 
> Argh.  Not that I can afford to buy much right now.   But after I get that job, I'm going to want to set my computer up enough so I don't have to buy a new one.  Or maybe, if the upgrades are too expensive, I'll just buy a new computer and ship the old one off to my sister, who's still runing on a 486-DX2.  *




I think you have a SLOT1 motherboard if that 733 proc is really a Pentium 3 and not a Celeron (or Xeon, hehe). If you open the case, what do you see? If the CPU is standing out from the motherboard it is most certainly a SLOT1 proc. If you can only see a heatsink and fan the proc is in a socket. But is should be in a slot. 

The next step is to find a faster SLOT1 P3. I am pretty sure it will work in your current motherboard. If you want to be sure, try to find out the model and manufacturer of your motherboard and go to their website (usually www.company.com.tw as www.abit.com.tw ) for more info.


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## omokage (Sep 12, 2002)

I apologize if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there are any Slot1 Pentium IIIs that are any faster than 733 if not 800MHz

Another option could be to get yourself a Dual-processor board and another 733 chip, that way you don't have to scrap your old one.


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## CRGreathouse (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: [OT]  RAM upgrades*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *Wow... are you (as a human, not your computer) actually able to deal with 16 applications/windows simulataneously?  If I have more than 3-4 open, I close 'em. *




At the moment, I have 14 windows open.  Two are really the same program, though, so I'm actually running 13.

This is a little on the high end for me, but I seldom have fewer than 6 simutaneous windows open at once.


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## CRGreathouse (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: [OT]  Computer upgrades (was: RAM upgrades)*



			
				Psionicist said:
			
		

> *Harddrives and most permanent storage devices count 1 KB as 1000 bytes. This is however not correct. You have probably heard that 1 byte equal 8 bits (8 zeroes and ones)?. You cannot divide 1000 with 8 without having some extra bits you cannot use right? However, 1024/8 works just fine!
> 
> Anyhow, the base is not 1000, but 1024. Now
> 1 GB = 1024 MB = 1024*1024 KB = 1024*1024*1024 B = 1024*1024*1024*8 bits.
> ...




That doesn't quite add up.  30,000,000,000 bytes is more than 27 GB - it's about 28.


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## omokage (Sep 13, 2002)

it is still less than 28GB and the OS generally rounds down when you see the Free Space vs Total Space.


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## Psionicist (Sep 13, 2002)

omokage said:
			
		

> *it is still less than 28GB and the OS generally rounds down when you see the Free Space vs Total Space. *




True.

OT: You should see my taskbar when I am actually _working_ while online. 4 rows, 20+ programs open is not uncommon. 3-5 instances of Word or Excel, Explorer, 5 or so instances of web browser, downloading files, FTP client, IRC client, then we have some notepad windows too, E-mail, a 3-5 instances of firstclass (a communications program. I study highschool/collage from home. Gotta love it!). Then we have ICQ, talking with friends, helping guys with their computer problems... Heh... The only program I actually close whenever I do not need it for the next few minutes is Photoshop. It slow things down... 

Doing everything at the same time. Man am I ever so pressure-tolerant sometimes.


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## Buttercup (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: [OT]  RAM upgrades*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Wow... are you (as a human, not your computer) actually able to deal with 16 applications/windows simulataneously?  If I have more than 3-4 open, I close 'em. *




When I'm at work, I usually have three browser windows open, word, excel, the e-mail client, and the staff client of our integrated system.  That's just the serious stuff.  I also most likely have EN World and CNN minimized too.


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## Heretic Apostate (Sep 14, 2002)

Yeah!  My computer's modem has been fixed!  That means I'm online again!

Boo!  I have to download everything again, as well as load all my software again.  (Also, since I STILL don't know what happened to my MS Office Pro 2000 software, I may have to shell out $100-200 to replace it, or stick with MS Office Pro 97.)

Even more BOO!  My car got rear-ended, AGAIN, on the way home.  And the guy who caused the accident (driving illegally on the wrong side of the road, on a narrow, twisty, hillside road, trying to get past a delivery truck that was going too slow...) drove off, leaving the guy who was tailgating me to take all the blame.

No major damage, it seems, but still another pain in the rear end.


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## Kibo (Sep 15, 2002)

Staffan said:
			
		

> *More RAM makes things go faster. The reason is that when you run out of physical RAM, the OS swaps lesser-used portions of memory out to the hard drive ("virtual memory"). Reading and writing to the HD is *much* slower than reading/writing RAM. The more physical memory you have, the less swapping is needed which makes the whole thing run faster. *




There is something of a caveat missing in there.  Adding more ram often increases the size of your swap file.  And depending on your hard drive and its state, this in some instances actually will decrease your performance.  Sometimes drastically.

Oh and wait till the new set of HD's come out, a nice 320 GB from Maxtor, that'll push prices lower, as will the switch to Serial ATA.


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## Psionicist (Sep 15, 2002)

Kibo said:
			
		

> *There is something of a caveat missing in there.  Adding more ram often increases the size of your swap file.  And depending on your hard drive and its state, this in some instances actually will decrease your performance.  Sometimes drastically.
> 
> Oh and wait till the new set of HD's come out, a nice 320 GB from Maxtor, that'll push prices lower, as will the switch to Serial ATA. *




That is not completely true. You can force most operatingsystems to use a fixed sized swap-file. Mine is set at 640mb and it works all right.

And why would anyone who don't even use 20GB need 320GB? I'd spend that money on a real SCSI-subsystem instead.


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## Kibo (Sep 15, 2002)

Psionicist said:
			
		

> *
> And why would anyone who don't even use 20GB need 320GB? I'd spend that money on a real SCSI-subsystem instead. *




...that'll push prices lower...

It's early for me too.

And yeah, SCSI is faster...but it's a whole lot more expensive.   But since I'm all about "that'll push prices lower", I'll just say it has its places.  For a desktop, IDE is fine.


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