# Wild Shape duration?



## Zerovoid (Jan 22, 2003)

When a druid or shifter uses the wild shape ability, how long does it last?  I had always assumed that the maximum duration was as a polymorph self spell cast at the druid's level, but the description of the ability just says that the druid can transform, and change back once per day.  This could mean that the ability has unlimited duration.


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## whatisitgoodfor (Jan 22, 2003)

Wild Shape lasts as long as the Druid wants. 

The text about changing back is simply to clarify that it doesn't require a use of the Wild Shape ability to change back into your natural shape.

BTW, it isn't necessary for the druid to change back to native form before WSing into another animal form, but it does use up another of his daily uses.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 22, 2003)

whatisitgoodfor said:
			
		

> *BTW, it isn't necessary for the druid to change back to native form before WSing into another animal form, but it does use up another of his daily uses. *




I have yet to see a Druid of enough level to Wildshape in my gaming, but I thought that the number of times/day refer to new animal forms, not to reverting into the native form, isn't it?

So, if a Druid wildshapes into wolf and back to native form, she has used 1 daily use of WS.

If she wildshapes into wolf, then into eagle and back to native form, she has used 2 daily uses of WS.

If she wildshapes into wolf, back to native form, then into eagle and back to native form, she has used 2 daily uses of WS.

Why should it count against daily limit to revert into native form? After all, it is quite like dismissing oneself's spell. 

edit: now that I re-read your post, I think you were saying the same thing 

I think we can easily say, if we wish, that WS has a permanent duration, and it is dismissible at will.


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## Dark Dragon (Jan 22, 2003)

Zerovoid said:
			
		

> *When a druid or shifter uses the wild shape ability, how long does it last?  I had always assumed that the maximum duration was as a polymorph self spell cast at the druid's level, but the description of the ability just says that the druid can transform, and change back once per day.  This could mean that the ability has unlimited duration. *




A druid's wildshape has become an ability that isn't related to _Polymorph self_ anymore (see MotW). So, no HD cap, no duration limit, and all "Ex" abilities and racial boni are gained.

A wizard / shifter still has a HD cap (as both _Polymorph self_ and Greater Wildshape have), but the duration of GWS is unlimited unless the native form is regained.

The sage ruled that a druid / shifter also has a HD cap for GWS (although it is contrarious to the GWS description... )


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## Silver Griffon (Jan 22, 2003)

*Re: Re: Wild Shape duration?*



			
				Dark Dragon said:
			
		

> *A wizard / shifter still has a HD cap (as both Polymorph self and Greater Wildshape have), but the duration of GWS is unlimited unless the native form is regained.
> 
> The sage ruled that a druid / shifter also has a HD cap for GWS (although it is contrarious to the GWS description... ) *



I look at it like this: Think of the HD limit on GWS as part of the ability. Likewise, the distinction between dire and normal animals is part of the WS ability. Just because you can mix and match the sizes and types of forms that are available to you to your best advantage doesn't mean it changes the GWS or WS ability itself. I rule IMC that a druid/shifter does not have HD limits for forms he can turn into using the druid's WS. That's because WS is not limited by HD, only by size and the artificial distinction between dire and normal animals even though they have the same type. For example, a druid8/shifter2 has WS(small,med,large animal-not dire) and GWS(small or med, humanoid,animal,monst humanoid). This char can become an animal (not dire) of size S,M, or L of any HD because he can use WS while "freely mixing the benefits of both abilities". Also, he can become a dire animal of size S,M, or L while using GWS but is limited to 10HD by the nature of his GWS. His humanoid and monst humanoid forms are limited to small or medium-sized and 10HD. 
Does this make sense? Do I need to work on my communications skills?


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## Dark Dragon (Jan 23, 2003)

Well, it's your campaign, so, rule GWS as you like it to be ok. 

But you said "freely mixing the benefits of both abilities" (which is quite similar to the GWS description in MotW)... from my point of view, this wording removes the HD cap for the drd / shi combo.

BTW, a druidic shifter is only as powerful as the monsters he encounters (and he can study). So it depends on the DM what forms are available to the shifter. 
Second, a druidic shifter taking undead forms (unless there are no other options to handle a situation) isn't so close to nature as he should be, IMHO. And when he could take the form of a planetar (CR 16, 14 HD) or a Hellfire Wyrm (CR 26, 20 HD), he should be in an appropriate level (13 at least for the planetar and 23 (epic!) for the wyrm, IMO).
One shouldn't forget that a shifter does not advance in spell casting, he must rely on his shapechanging powers to handle an encounter...


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