# Monster vault: I has it



## Fiery James (Nov 1, 2010)

Hey everyone, I've got the Essentials Monster Vault in my hands.

I'm at work right now, and then off to celebrate my youngest daughter turning 8, but I'll be able to answer some questions later tonight.

So, pile 'em up.

- James


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## kilamanjaro (Nov 1, 2010)

Table of contents would rock, but for a short answer what dragons are in there?


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Nov 1, 2010)

Are there any new elementals in it?

Additionally, are there any monsters that are entirely new and not a adaptation/improvement/expansion of an existing MM monster or monster concept?  By that I mean, I'm not askign what new orks or beholders or whatevers there are, but monsters that we simply haven't seen in the 4th ed. MMs yet.


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## Klaus (Nov 1, 2010)

Spill them beans about the adventures. Counters, I got enough.


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## LostSoul (Nov 1, 2010)

What kind of human "monsters" does it have?


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## Aegeri (Nov 1, 2010)

I want to know _everything_ possible about the updated chromatic dragons.

_Everything_.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

kilamanjaro said:


> Table of contents would rock, but for a short answer what dragons are in there?




Table of Contents (abbreviated)
MONSTERS A-Z starts on page 4
Appendix: Animals on page 296
Glossary on 305
Monsters by Level 313

Page 64: DRAGON

Fledgling White Dragon
Young White
Young Black
Young Green
Young Blue
Young Red
Deathbringer Dracolich
Elder White
Elder Black
Elder Green
Elder Blue
Elder Red
Dracolich Doomlord


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Dr_Ruminahui said:


> Are there any new elementals in it?
> 
> Additionally, are there any monsters that are entirely new and not a adaptation/improvement/expansion of an existing MM monster or monster concept? By that I mean, I'm not askign what new orks or beholders or whatevers there are, but monsters that we simply haven't seen in the 4th ed. MMs yet.




ELEMENTALS: Lesser Air, Lesser Earth, Lesser Fire, Lesser Water.

There are 63 monster listings in the Table of Contents (obviously, each has several types or subtypes).  There are no entries that we haven't covered before, as far as I can see.  It's pretty much the usual suspects.


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## Vael (Nov 2, 2010)

Any dinosaurs ... sorry, Behemoths?


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Klaus said:


> Spill them beans about the adventures. Counters, I got enough.




Yeah, the "tokens" are pretty much useless to you and me.  I prefer the Claudio Pozas art.

The adventure is for 4th-level, called Cairn of the Winter King by Matthew Sernett.

10 encounters, 32 pages (including covers, map on the back).  I'll let you know more when I give it a read-through.

- JB


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## GMforPowergamers (Nov 2, 2010)

Do we have any good new 'PC' race monsters...

also what do the kobolds look like? do any of them have shifty?


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

LostSoul said:


> What kind of human "monsters" does it have?





Human Goon (Lvl 2 Minion), Common Bandit (level 2 skirmisher), Town Guard (level 2 soldier)


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Vael said:


> Any dinosaurs ... sorry, Behemoths?




Nope


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

GMforPowergamers said:


> Do we have any good new 'PC' race monsters...
> 
> also what do the kobolds look like? do any of them have shifty?




Nothing jumps out.  

There are 4 kobold builds, all can shift 1 as a minor, 2 shift as a triggered action, 1 can shift 3 as a move action.


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## Zaran (Nov 2, 2010)

Are there any Soldiers?  

How do the eHobgoblins compare to the cHobgoblins?


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Zaran said:


> Are there any Soldiers?
> 
> How do the eHobgoblins compare to the cHobgoblins?




Soldiers as in "Human, Soldier?" No.

Soldier as in "Monster Role?" Yes, about 68 of them.

5 kinds of hobgoblins:

Hobgoblin Beast Master (lvl 3 controller (leader) - moves enemies and allies around with his whip

Hobgoblin Battle Guard (lvl 3 solderi) Flail, phalanx movement, share shield

Hobgoblin Spear Solderi (lvl 3 skirmisher) Reach 2, longspear & javelin, phalanx movement, tactical withdrawl

Hobgoblin Warmonger (lvl 4 Artillery (leader) - mace, longbow, battlecry that gets allies attacking, phalanx movement

Hobgoblin Commander (lvl 5 soldier (leader) - grants attack bonuses to his allies when he hits you, spear, tactical deployment (shifts allies within 5), hobgoblin resilience (can make a save against a condition)

They look fun.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

That's it for tonight; I'm going to read the book a bit and crash.  More answers tomorrow after work.

- JB


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## Dragonhelm (Nov 2, 2010)

Just curious, does the Monster Vault offer enough to make it worth picking up if you already own the Monster Manuals?  Is it more of the same, or is there new content?

And did I hear correct that there's an adventure?  

Thanks in advance.


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## cavalier973 (Nov 2, 2010)

Does it have the Cockatrice?


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Dragonhelm said:


> Just curious, does the Monster Vault offer enough to make it worth picking up if you already own the Monster Manuals? Is it more of the same, or is there new content?
> 
> And did I hear correct that there's an adventure?
> 
> Thanks in advance.




There is a 4th-level adventure. If you don't care about the tokens, the book itself is sort of the highlights of MM1 but using the latest monster building ideas.  If MM1 is already working well for you, you could skip this.  It seems more necessary than the DM's kit, which was just reprints of stuff from the other books.  This, at least, has the same old monsters but created with more experience under their belts and designed in the MM3 style.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

cavalier973 said:


> Does it have the Cockatrice?




Not that I see.


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## SpydersWebbing (Nov 2, 2010)

How do damage and hp compare between MM1 and MV?


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## Dragonhelm (Nov 2, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> There is a 4th-level adventure. If you don't care about the tokens, the book itself is sort of the highlights of MM1 but using the latest monster building ideas.  If MM1 is already working well for you, you could skip this.  It seems more necessary than the DM's kit, which was just reprints of stuff from the other books.  This, at least, has the same old monsters but created with more experience under their belts and designed in the MM3 style.




Okay, thanks.  I'll have to think it over.  I'm not sure I pull out the Monster Manuals enough to make it worth it.

I'm not too terribly impressed with WotC's adventures.  Paizo knows how to do them better, and I'd rather spend the time to create a quick-and-dirty conversion so I can use their story ideas.  So the adventure is not a selling point for me.

Thanks for the info.


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## nnms (Nov 2, 2010)

If you took all the token pages out of the box and set them aside (say because you have better options ) and packed everything back inside the box and opened it up as if it was your first unboxing, would you feel the product is a good value?


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## w_earle_wheeler (Nov 2, 2010)

I am actually interested in what tokens are included

Since I already have two 4e Monster Manuals, the only thing that would interest me in regard to this product are the tiles, the adventure and the box!


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## Dragonhelm (Nov 2, 2010)

Can you put Monster Manuals I - III into the Monster Vault box?


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## Plane Sailing (Nov 2, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> ELEMENTALS: Lesser Air, Lesser Earth, Lesser Fire, Lesser Water.




I will be so pleased if there is a bit of a return to 'classic' elementals, rather than the (useless to me) 'fiery-stone water tempest elemental' kind of thing which cropped up in MM1


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## Maccwar (Nov 2, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> Yeah, the "tokens" are pretty much useless to you and me.  I prefer the Claudio Pozas art.




Still waiting for them to be in print again and available on this side of the Atlantic ocean.

Are there any monsters which have not been modified or is the all new or revised content?


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## Klaus (Nov 2, 2010)

Plane Sailing said:


> I will be so pleased if there is a bit of a return to 'classic' elementals, rather than the (useless to me) 'fiery-stone water tempest elemental' kind of thing which cropped up in MM1



Those are in the MM3.


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## Scribble (Nov 2, 2010)

Dragonhelm said:


> Okay, thanks.  I'll have to think it over.  I'm not sure I pull out the Monster Manuals enough to make it worth it.




Another thing you might want to consider is what seems like the amount of flavor in the thing.

Don't know if that interests you, but it's one of the things that's strongly pushing me towards getting this.


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Nov 2, 2010)

Plane Sailing said:


> I will be so pleased if there is a bit of a return to 'classic' elementals, rather than the (useless to me) 'fiery-stone water tempest elemental' kind of thing which cropped up in MM1




They already did that in MM3.


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## JoeGKushner (Nov 2, 2010)

ArcaneSpringboard said:


> They already did that in MM3.




How does that help if you didn't like MM1, heck, the original 4e, but wanted to give Essentials a try?


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## the Jester (Nov 2, 2010)

What oozes are in MV?


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## Dragonhelm (Nov 2, 2010)

Scribble said:


> Another thing you might want to consider is what seems like the amount of flavor in the thing.
> 
> Don't know if that interests you, but it's one of the things that's strongly pushing me towards getting this.




Actually, that's a huge selling point for me.  I bought the Pathfinder Bestiary for the flavor it contains, even though that's not my system of choice.

I might get the book as a travel version of the Monster Manual.


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## Aegeri (Nov 2, 2010)

JoeGKushner said:


> How does that help if you didn't like MM1, heck, the original 4e, but wanted to give Essentials a try?




This statement is daft, because there is literally no difference between using MM3 creatures in an essentials game and creatures from the monster vault. They are built _using the exact same rules and design principles_. MM3 creatures have no particular problems with essentials than MV ones do. Also the original MM1 is being updated with essentials to essentially be like MM3. Buying MM3 or MV makes no difference, both are fully compatible books and MM3 has tons of low level creatures in it as well.

Since the release of MM3 I rarely use monsters from other sources and still haven't run out of ideas for encounters.

Edit: It should be noted the core point is that if you didn't like MM3 the MV is not going to do anything different (but both are _substantially_ better than MM1 easily. By bounds in fact).


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

nnms said:


> If you took all the token pages out of the box and set them aside (say because you have better options ) and packed everything back inside the box and opened it up as if it was your first unboxing, would you feel the product is a good value?




Personally, I'd rather get just the book for $19.99.  The rest of the stuff - adventure and tokens - isn't work an extra $15 to me.  But, that's me and I already have 5000 tokens of every D&D monster ever, so these ones are a bit overkill.

I'd get Mosnter Vault before DM's Kit, though.


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## JoeGKushner (Nov 2, 2010)

Aegeri said:


> This statement is daft, because there is literally no difference between using MM3 creatures in an essentials game and creatures from the monster vault. They are built _using the exact same rules and design principles_. MM3 creatures have no particular problems with essentials than MV ones do. Also the original MM1 is being updated with essentials to essentially be like MM3. Buying MM3 or MV makes no difference, both are fully compatible books and MM3 has tons of low level creatures in it as well.
> 
> Since the release of MM3 I rarely use monsters from other sources and still haven't run out of ideas for encounters.
> 
> Edit: It should be noted the core point is that if you didn't like MM3 the MV is not going to do anything different (but both are _substantially_ better than MM1 easily. By bounds in fact).




Uh, did you read what I wrote?

If you picked up the MM1 and saw those crazy elementals and then gave 4e a pass, you wouldn't have picked up the MM3.

But then you hear about Essentials and ask, as this perosn did, what type of elementals are here.

Hopefully that's clearer.


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## Aegeri (Nov 2, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> Personally, I'd rather get just the book for $19.99.  The rest of the stuff - adventure and tokens - isn't work an extra $15 to me.  But, that's me and I already have 5000 tokens of every D&D monster ever, so these ones are a bit overkill.
> 
> I'd get Mosnter Vault before DM's Kit, though.




Is it really the case there are no Ancient Dragons in this book? I find that incredibly annoying if that's the case.

Also, did they redo Orcus?

And finally, what are the new dracoliches like? They aren't as horribly terrible as the ones in the original MM are they?


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Dragonhelm said:


> Can you put Monster Manuals I - III into the Monster Vault box?




Yes.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Scribble said:


> Another thing you might want to consider is what seems like the amount of flavor in the thing.
> 
> Don't know if that interests you, but it's one of the things that's strongly pushing me towards getting this.




That's a good point.  There's TONS more flavour text.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

the Jester said:


> What oozes are in MV?




Ochre Jelly, Green Slime, Gelatinous Cube, Black Pudding, Black Pudding Spawn (a pudding minion)


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Nov 2, 2010)

Seeing as how I started the elemental controversy in this thread, I might as well keep it going... 

How different are the various lesser elementals from their equivalents in MM3 (so, just comparing them to the weakest of each type in that book)?


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Nov 2, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> Soldiers as in "Human, Soldier?" No.




I've made a ton of them (using the new damage rules/formats), including a bunch of minions. But it's hard coming up with good encounter abilities.

I still need to do archers; gotta get back to work!


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 2, 2010)

Aegeri said:


> Is it really the case there are no Ancient Dragons in this book? I find that incredibly annoying if that's the case.
> 
> Also, did they redo Orcus?
> 
> And finally, what are the new dracoliches like? They aren't as horribly terrible as the ones in the original MM are they?




Just the Elders mentioned before, and no metallics at all.

No Orcus.

Demons: Dretch Lackey, Babau, Vrock, Abyssal Eviscerator, Hezrou, Marilith, Balor

Devils: Imp, Succubus, Chain Devil, Legion Devil Hellguard, Legion Devil Veteran, Ice Devil, Pit Fiend

Deathbringer Dracolich - Level 12 Solo Controller
 - removes daze, stun, dominate effects at the end of its turn
 - uses it's Mesmerizing Glance as a free action on it's init+10
 - Bite 2d10+9 ongoing 10 necrotic
 - CLAWS 3d6+9 per claw and slide 2
 - BREATH close blast 5, 3d12+8 necrotic, target is weakened, miss half damage and target is weakened until EONT
 - Mesmerizing Glance (minor) ranged 10, target is dominated, slides target 2 squares.  On a miss, if the target moves closer to the dracolich, target takes 15 psychic damage

Dracolich Doomlord - Level 22 Solo Controller
 - as above, PLUS
 - Aura 3 - enemies cannot regain hit points or gain temp hp
 - Bite, claws, breath all scale
 - Mesmerising Glance - doesn't have the miss condition.


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## Aegeri (Nov 2, 2010)

I was about to be somewhat angry but the Doomlords delicious statblock makes up for it. I guess I can make my own ancient dragons then and there is a hole that I can fill.

What are the succubus and Balor like? The original MM1 Balor is one of the saddest monsters in 4E.


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## Dragonhelm (Nov 3, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> Yes.




Score!


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## hung-low (Nov 3, 2010)

Are there any trolls in it. And if so, how are they different?


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## Obryn (Nov 3, 2010)

Aegeri said:


> What are the succubus and Balor like? The original MM1 Balor is one of the saddest monsters in 4E.



The Balor got a huge boost as of Demonomicon.  He was revised for one of the delves.

-O


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 3, 2010)

Aegeri said:


> The original MM1 Balor is one of the saddest monsters in 4E.




New Balor kicks the old Balor's a$$.

"Beheading Blade" is the name of one of it's close blast 3 powers.


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## TarionzCousin (Nov 3, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> New Balor kicks the old Balor's a$$.
> 
> "Beheading Blade" is the name of one of it's close blast 3 powers.



What level is the new Balor?


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## Aegeri (Nov 3, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> New Balor kicks the old Balor's a$$.
> 
> "Beheading Blade" is the name of one of it's close blast 3 powers.




I would be interested to know more about the Balor. Does that power kill enemies reduced to 0 HP (EG no death saves). I've been wondering about if we'll start seeing more of these effects at epic tier.


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## Evilhalfling (Nov 3, 2010)

Sounds cool, although I will be adding a lot of these critters by hand into the existing monster builder.


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## Pseudopsyche (Nov 3, 2010)

JoeGKushner said:


> If you picked up the MM1 and saw those crazy elementals and then gave 4e a pass, you wouldn't have picked up the MM3.
> 
> But then you hear about Essentials and ask, as this perosn did, what type of elementals are here.



Well, to answer the original question, the Monster Vault does seem to have the "pure" elementals.  Someone else merely pointed out that WotC had already designed these for MM3, so all that remained was to essentialize those elementals.  In other words, given the retro feel of Essentials and the fact that they had already created pure elementals, it would have been very surprising for them to include the hybrid elementals instead in the Monster Vault.


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## JoeGKushner (Nov 3, 2010)

Pseudopsyche said:


> Well, to answer the original question, the Monster Vault does seem to have the "pure" elementals.  Someone else merely pointed out that WotC had already designed these for MM3, so all that remained was to essentialize those elementals.  In other words, given the retro feel of Essentials and the fact that they had already created pure elementals, it would have been very surprising for them to include the hybrid elementals instead in the Monster Vault.




Nothing WoTC does these days surprises me.


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## Bungo_Underhill (Nov 3, 2010)

Are mindflayers there is so how many and at what levels? Are any of them Solos?

What is the lowest level Solo monster?


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## Scribble (Nov 3, 2010)

Just out of curiosity- 

Do the books inside the box have the shiny cover (like in Gamma World) or the flat cover (like the non boxed books.)


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## Fiery James (Nov 3, 2010)

Scribble said:


> Just out of curiosity-
> 
> Do the books inside the box have the shiny cover (like in Gamma World) or the flat cover (like the non boxed books.)




Shiny, like the DM's kit book as well.


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## Fiery James (Nov 3, 2010)

TarionzCousin said:


> What level is the new Balor?




Same as the MM1 version.  It's a lot like the revised version in Demonomicon, only with a few more tweaks.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 3, 2010)

hung-low said:


> Are there any trolls in it. And if so, how are they different?





TROLL

Troll (level 9 Brute), Battle Troll (12 Soldier), Bladerager Troll (12 Brute), Ghost Troll Render (13 Brute).

Attack roll and damge are beefed up from previous versions.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 3, 2010)

Bungo_Underhill said:


> Are mindflayers there is so how many and at what levels? Are any of them Solos?
> 
> What is the lowest level Solo monster?





MINDFLAYER Thrall Master (Level 14 Elite Controller (Leader))
Mind Flayer Unseen (invisible while it has a creature grabbed)
Concordant Mind Flayer
Mind Flayer Starship Captain*

Lowest level Solo is Fledgling White Dragon (level 1 solo brute)
Young White Dragon is a level 3 solo brute
Actually, the only solos up until level 9 are dragons.
Level 9 solo Artillery is Beholder
Hydra is level 10 solo brute

Highest level monster is Balor (level 27 elite brute)

* No, not really.  Just the 3 mindflayers.  It would be crazy if they had a starship captain.


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Nov 3, 2010)

Anyone getting the feeling they're starting to compress the monster levels a bit?  I'm loving the fact that the Beholder is only 9th level.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 3, 2010)

The List

Angel
Archon
Basilisk
Beholder
Bulette
Carrion Crawler
Cyclops
Death Knight
Demon
Devil
Displacer Beast
Doppleganger
Dragon
Dragonborn
Drake
Drider
Dryad
Duergar
Dwarf
Efreet
Elemental
Elf
Ettin
Gargoyle
Ghoul
Giant
Githyanki
Gnoll
Gnome
Goblin
Golem
Hag
Halfling
Human
Kobold
Lich
Lizardfolk
Lycanthrope
Manticore
Medusa
Mindflayer
Minotaur
Mummy

O-Z later, maybe.


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## zoroaster100 (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks for listing the first half of the monsters, Fiery Dragon, and for answering so many questions.  I have one question.  Are there no drow in the book, or are the included under "Elf"?


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## TikkchikFenTikktikk (Nov 4, 2010)

Does it have rules for creating monsters? Are those rules **anywhere** in Essentials? Has DMGp184 been recreated for this edition?


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## Klaus (Nov 4, 2010)

TikkchikFenTikktikk said:


> Does it have rules for creating monsters? Are those rules **anywhere** in Essentials? Has DMGp184 been recreated for this edition?



I *think* those rules will be in the DM's Kit, but I don't really know for sure.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

zoroaster100 said:


> Thanks for listing the first half of the monsters, Fiery Dragon, and for answering so many questions. I have one question. Are there no drow in the book, or are the included under "Elf"?




ELF: Elf, Eladrin, Drow


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

TikkchikFenTikktikk said:


> Does it have rules for creating monsters? Are those rules **anywhere** in Essentials? Has DMGp184 been recreated for this edition?




Not in this book.

In the DM's book, there's the stuff on building an encounter with monster roles and such, but doesn't look like there's any monster building guidelines.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

Ogre
Ooze
Orc
Otyugh
Owlbear
Purple Worm
Rakshasa
Roper
Rust Monster
Skeleton
Stirge
Tiefling
Treant
Troglodyte
Troll
Umber Hulk
Vampire
Wraith
Yuan-ti
Zombie


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## Nikosandros (Nov 4, 2010)

Klaus said:


> I *think* those rules will be in the DM's Kit, but I don't really know for sure.



The DM's Kit has rules for building encounters, but no rules for customizing or creating monsters.


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## Dice4Hire (Nov 4, 2010)

What is the quality f the book? Like the Heroes pair, or the DMG book? I have heard some troubles about it.


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## Zaran (Nov 4, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> Soldiers as in "Human, Soldier?" No.
> 
> Soldier as in "Monster Role?" Yes, about 68 of them.
> 
> ...





Yeah I guess i'm stuck on the soldiers.  Do the level 3 soldiers still have 20 AC (22 when next to an ally)?


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## Matrix Sorcica (Nov 4, 2010)

Fiery_Dragon said:


> TROLL
> 
> Troll (level 9 Brute), Battle Troll (12 Soldier), Bladerager Troll (12 Brute), Ghost Troll Render (13 Brute).
> 
> Attack roll and damge are beefed up from previous versions.



Are Troll hit points correct this time around? (all Trolls in the MM has too few hp - a Troll has 100 where it should have 120 and so on. And no, regeneration should _not_ affect this- just look at all other published regenerating monsters)


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## Matrix Sorcica (Nov 4, 2010)

Please tell me about the Roper.


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## RangerWickett (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks a ton James. 

I'm curious, have they managed to make the purple worm interesting?


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

Zaran said:


> Yeah I guess i'm stuck on the soldiers. Do the level 3 soldiers still have 20 AC (22 when next to an ally)?




Nope.  AC 19.

Triggered Action: Share Shield (At-Will)
Trigger: An adjacent ally is hit by an attack against AC or REF.
Effect (Immediate Interrupt) the ally gains +2 bonus to AC and REF against the triggering attack.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

Matrix Sorcica said:


> Are Troll hit points correct this time around? (all Trolls in the MM has too few hp - a Troll has 100 where it should have 120 and so on. And no, regeneration should _not_ affect this- just look at all other published regenerating monsters)




Troll hit points seem in line with others of their level/type.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

Matrix Sorcica said:


> Please tell me about the Roper.




He was replaced by the Furley.  (groan, lame joke)

IMPALING ROPER (level 10 lurker)
 - Melee 10 (one creature) +10 vs REF; 1d8+5; grabs target - roper gains resist 20 to all attacks from grabbed target
 - IMPALE - +13 vs REF (grabbed target) - target is pulled up to 10 squares, impaled for 4d10+5 and grab ends (MISS: half damage)

CAVE ROPER (level 12 Elite Controller)
 - roper can withdraw tentacles to disguise itself as a natural rock formation
- grabbed targets are weakened
- has a bite attack
 - can double tentacle attack at will

CRAG ROPER (level 15 elite soldier)
- aura 5 lashing tentacles (marks enemies in 5)
similar to Cave Roper, but has an immediate tentacle reaction against marked foes that don't attack it.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

RangerWickett said:


> Thanks a ton James.
> 
> I'm curious, have they managed to make the purple worm interesting?




Well, it can not only swallow you as before, but it can regurgitate you up to 4 squares away dealing 3d10+8 damage.  They've also given it a poison stinger and it can fling you around.  It also has an immediate thrash reaction when it's hit that damages and pushes anyone who gets to close.

Yeah, it's more interesting than it was.


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 4, 2010)

Dice4Hire said:


> What is the quality f the book? Like the Heroes pair, or the DMG book? I have heard some troubles about it.




Ready for this?

HEROES OF THE FORGOTTEN KINGDOMS, HEROES OF THE FALLEN LANDS, RULES COMPENDIUM... all PRINTED IN THE USA

DM'S KIT, MONSTER VAULT ... all PRINTED IN CHINA


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## Dice4Hire (Nov 5, 2010)

Well, if the quqlity has troubles that is one strike against me getting the set. 

Fiery James, how is your book holding up? Hopefully no problems yet.


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## SteveC (Nov 5, 2010)

James... I just wanted to say thanks for doing this thread. I'm in a bit of an anti-WotC mood at the moment, and threads like this remind me that they make a game and products that I really do enjoy. This thread was the pick-up that I needed, so thanks!

--Steve


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## Fiery_Dragon (Nov 5, 2010)

Dice4Hire said:


> Well, if the quqlity has troubles that is one strike against me getting the set.
> 
> Fiery James, how is your book holding up? Hopefully no problems yet.




I've had no issues as of yet.


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## Matrix Sorcica (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks for info on Trolls and Ropers (must spread xp)


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## Mengu (Nov 5, 2010)

Do wraiths still have incorporeal, regenerate, and weaken?


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## Bungo_Underhill (Nov 5, 2010)

Can you give us some info on the Rakshasa?

With essentials re-focus on some of the more old school D&D memes do the Rakshasa have any special interaction with holy crossbow bolts?


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## ObsidianCrane (Nov 5, 2010)

Thank you for sharing so generously of your time.

I woulld greatly appreciate the answer to these 2 questions:

Does the adventure carry on from the DM's Kit one or does it ignore it?

For example are the Iron Circle mentioned, or perhaps Lord Vhennyk?


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## ryanwood92 (Nov 5, 2010)

wat kind of huge monster are featured? and is there a hydra if so wat  levels?


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## Klaus (Nov 5, 2010)

My question is:

Is the Enorminator copyrighted to Doofershmirtz Evil Inc?


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## Peraion Graufalke (Nov 5, 2010)

Klaus said:


> My question is:
> 
> Is the Enorminator copyrighted to Doofershmirtz Evil Inc?




He has a copyright on the "-inator" suffix, so yes, yes he does.


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## Aegeri (Nov 5, 2010)

What is the MV Wraith like? Have they removed the stacking insubstantial on top of weakness stuff (which is the worst). Also, is the insubstantial negated by force damage?


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## DragoonLance (Nov 5, 2010)

Aegeri said:


> What is the MV Wraith like? Have they removed the stacking insubstantial on top of weakness stuff (which is the worst). Also, is the insubstantial negated by force damage?




Just got my copy today.  Wraith no longer weakens, it now can turn invisible when hit (if the hit wasn't radiant or force) and does extra damage when attacking if it's invisible.  It is still insubstantial (negated by radiant and force) but does not regenerate.

Wraith Lurker 5
Mad Wraith Controller 6
Wraith Figment Minion Skirmisher 6
Sovereign Wraith Soldier 8

Overall just glancing through the monsters are much better thought out with not nearly as many stacking defense modifiers, stunlocks or bad combos like the original wraiths.


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## SlyFlourish (Nov 5, 2010)

Any chance you can list out epic-tier monsters? I'm worried WOTC is focusing all its attention at heroic in this one.

Any chance you might describe the balor's attack and maybe describe the lich?


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## Jools (Nov 6, 2010)

Any Dragon-Mounted Githyanki in here? I'll wet myself if there are.


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## Greg K (Nov 6, 2010)

Does Angels cover the planetar, solar, astral deva, monadic deva, and movanic deva?


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## DragoonLance (Nov 6, 2010)

@ mshea: yes there really aren't that many epic monsters, there are a total of 12 with a level of 21+ and no named enemies, the Balor is the highest level monster in the book.  But what is in there is far better at being threatening than their MM1 counterparts.  I basically plan to use this book as a replacement for MM1, and I have plenty of good high level threats from MM2 and 3.  Probably not as useful if this book is the only one you plan to buy though.  Actually a lot of stuff that was high level in the first MM is actually lower in this one.  For example in MM1 the lowest level Ogre was 10, here there is one at 6.  Same with Beholders and probably several others, those are just the ones that I noticed right off the bat.

@ Jools, sorry, nope.

@ Greg K, no.  The angels are all "Angel of x" vengeance, protection, battle etc.  Pretty sure they left them generic on purpose.


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## DragoonLance (Nov 6, 2010)

Epic monsters are:
Fire Titan 21 ESo
Lich 22 A(L)
Hezrou 22 B
Efreet (3 total) 22/23 So,A,Sk
Dracolich Doomlord 22 Solo C
Elder Red Dragon 22 Solo So
Gargoyle 23 Sk
Marilith 24 E Sk
Pit Fiend 26 E So (L)
Balor 27 EB


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## Stalker0 (Nov 6, 2010)

DragoonLance said:


> Actually a lot of stuff that was high level in the first MM is actually lower in this one.




Did the reprint the swordwing at a lower level?

I could never get the concept of an epic level monster that forms hives with hundreds of epic level monsters. How does such a threat not take over the planet?


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## JoeGKushner (Nov 7, 2010)

mshea said:


> Any chance you can list out epic-tier monsters? I'm worried WOTC is focusing all its attention at heroic in this one.
> 
> Any chance you might describe the balor's attack and maybe describe the lich?




With WoTC dropping the DMG3 because they surveyed that no one was playing at those levels, and their magazine Dungeon, rarely has adventurers past the heroic level and rarely past the paragon, do you think it unusual that there would be little epic support?


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## Scrivener of Doom (Nov 7, 2010)

JoeGKushner said:


> (snip)  and their magazine Dungeon, rarely has adventurers past the heroic level and rarely past the paragon, do you think it unusual that there would be little epic support?




Actually, for several months now it would have been more accurate to replace what you typed with, "... and their magazine _Dungeon_ rarely has adventures. It has a few delves and, to recognise the lack of adventure content, will shortly be renamed either _Delve_ or _Orc & Pie_."


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## DragoonLance (Nov 7, 2010)

@ Stalker0: sorry, no non-epic swordwings exist anywhere that I know of.


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## Evilhalfling (Nov 7, 2010)

Picked up my copy, as soon as the FLGS had them on shelves - 

I really like the adventure _Cairn of the Winter King_ that came with the book, If you have a chance to play it, don't read it.  If your running a game near level 4 then see if you can slip it in. 

Lots of opportunity for RP, the first skill challenge is very cinematic and action packed. The main cairn is full of NPC's with competing goals, and the follow-up notes have suggestions for the long term effects of opening the winter king's caern.  

oh and the monster book is good to.


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## sc8rpi8n (Nov 9, 2010)

Can anyone tell me about the new death knight? Next session I have an encounter with one of them and I would like to use the updated version more or less.

Thanks


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## Flobby (Nov 10, 2010)

How about the art? Is it on par with MMI? (which I loved) From the previews it looks like they are small illustrations in little circles...


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## DragoonLance (Nov 10, 2010)

@ Flobby: Most of the art is the same as the MM, there is some new art too.  The small circle pics are with each monster entry so you can tell which pog it corresponds to.

@ sc8rpi8n:  gonna try this without breaking IP-
-AC/Will are -2, Fort and Ref are -1; attacks are -1 to hit
-HP +40 and lost second wind power
-Soulsword does +2 dice damage, lost the extra necrotic damage and crit bonus
-Containing Strike drops the second half of the power, but can attack two creatures, same damage as Soulsword, marks, plus slows on a hit
-Warriors Challenge does an extra die of damage and +7 static, lost the extra nec damage and can attack one or two creatures
-Unholy Flames lost the recharge but is the only power that gained a +1 to hit
-Combat Challenge works like the fighter's class feature now
-Implacable (new power) opportunity action: make a save against being marked, slowed, immobilized, dazed & stunned even if its not a save ends effect


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## Oulak (Nov 10, 2010)

Cailte said:


> Thank you for sharing so generously of your time.
> 
> I woulld greatly appreciate the answer to these 2 questions:
> 
> ...




+1 to this question, in case it was skimmed over. 

And to add a third, in what area of the Nentir Vale does the adventure take place?


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## Dalamar (Nov 10, 2010)

Any significant changes to the duergar? My group's facing some this friday, and I'd love to know if they're mostly okay as written.


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## DragoonLance (Nov 10, 2010)

Dalamar said:


> Any significant changes to the duergar? My group's facing some this friday, and I'd love to know if they're mostly okay as written.




Looking at the Guard and Scout, they are mostly the same with the errata adjustments to defenses and damage.  Scout's underdark sneak ability does twice as much damage now, and infernal quills also adds ongoing 5 poison (save ends both effects.)  Not huge changes though.


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## Retreater (Nov 11, 2010)

Don't like the layout at all. Also, there's no tactical suggestions or grouped encounter suggestions (such as, throw this necromancer in with a lich and skeletons, etc.) Also, I think it's an overall subpar selection of opponents for the game. There seems to be a lot missing that *should* be there. 

Overall, I'd say the MM is a better product for the money. 

Retreater


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## Aegeri (Nov 11, 2010)

Do you honestly need to be told a Lich should have skeletons? I mean, there is common sense and then there is the idea that a Lich has undead with it.

Your other point is spot on though. No ancient dragons is immeasurably disappointing and a very silly omission. The fact the book has virtually nothing in the epic tier is equally disappointing as well. It's like Wizards has decided that epic support is irrelevant these days and we've only had three good books (Both pre-essentials) that support epic tier well in monsters (MM3, Dark Sun: CS and Demonomicon). Looks like we're back to the good old ways of ignoring epic tiers existence. _Again_.


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## Retreater (Nov 11, 2010)

> Do you honestly need to be told a Lich should have skeletons? I mean, there is common sense and then there is the idea that a Lich has undead with it.




I don't. But a new DM - who is the target audience for Essentials products - might find it very helpful. A few sample encounters that are ready to go "on the fly" or as examples to show a well constructed encounter.

Retreater


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## Aegeri (Nov 11, 2010)

I think you are grossly underestimating peoples intelligence, when you think even a new DM won't grasp the concept of an undead necromancer (frequently) having undead with them being logical. Or when say, Orc warriors are found with Orc shamans/archers. I've always found those suggestions an absolute waste of time and page space - especially because some of them were particularly daft anyway (felt like random combinations of monsters of the same level).


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## DragoonLance (Nov 11, 2010)

Mostly going to have to agree on that.  At this point I don't have any real use for MM except for a tiny handful of corner cases like hellhounds.  MM3 covers epic tier far better, the epic monsters in MM were a joke from every account I've seen.  And a new DM is going to be better served by reading the included adventures in the MV and DMK and getting ideas for encounters from there.

Speaking of the adventures, I finally had a chance to read through Cairn of the Winter King.  I am generally the first person to bash WotC adventures for being boring grindfests, so I am very pleased with this one.  The start actually gives some decent RP suggestions for the citizens of Fallcrest, and the main part of the adventure feels like a good old school dungeon exploration adventure.  There is a bit of meh in getting from point A to B IMO, but overall it's far superior to the average adventure, I'd say about a 7 out of 10.  It could use a bit of adjustment to really catch the old school feel, but its an excellent attempt to recapture the feel of the old dungeon modules without having the bizarre "gotcha" traps and such.


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## Dice4Hire (Nov 12, 2010)

Aegeri said:


> I think you are grossly underestimating peoples intelligence, when you think even a new DM won't grasp the concept of an undead necromancer (frequently) having undead with them being logical. Or when say, Orc warriors are found with Orc shamans/archers. I've always found those suggestions an absolute waste of time and page space - especially because some of them were particularly daft anyway (felt like random combinations of monsters of the same level).




Well as it is the first MM a new essentials DM has ever seen, it would be nice to format out some encounters. Focusing on the necromancer and giving a page of 3-4 varied encounters nad the monster' strengths and weaknesses would be very nice for a new DM to have.

I find a lot of people forget what it was like to be a new DM. Propbably because it was a decade or two back in their past.


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## UngeheuerLich (Nov 12, 2010)

I guess the sample adventure(s) should be the guide for new DMs (not that I've seen them yet)


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## UnknownAtThisTime (Nov 12, 2010)

In case anyone has not seen it, I started a thread where a very kind soul posted all the Tokens in the MV.

When will the secondary market for token sheets open up?


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## TarionzCousin (Nov 13, 2010)

Jools said:


> Any Dragon-Mounted Githyanki in here? I'll wet myself if there are.






DragoonLance said:


> @ Jools, sorry, nope.



[MENTION=79607]Jools[/MENTION], what else can we do to help you with your "problem"?

We're here to help.


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## Funkenstein23 (Nov 13, 2010)

Around how many of the monsters have tokens to go with them? I'd hope it was all or at least most of them but you never know.


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## Stalker0 (Nov 14, 2010)

Aegeri said:


> I think you are grossly underestimating peoples intelligence, when you think even a new DM won't grasp the concept of an undead necromancer (frequently) having undead with them being logical.





I think you are overestimating people's industriousness. People want convienience in products like these.

Its not that a person can't figure out that necromancer should have skeletons, its that they don't want to. Its nice to have a couple of preencounters already there (ideally with page numbers), so I want to throw something out quick I can.


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## Aegeri (Nov 14, 2010)

Stalker0 said:


> I think you are overestimating people's industriousness. People want convienience in products like these.




I must not be "People" then because I still think it's taking space away from more important things. I mean my 4 step process for quick encounters is:

Step 1: Pick soldier/brute monster of X level
Step 2: Pick second artillery/skirmisher monster of X level
Step 3: Make sure there are 5 of them in total (any combination).
Step 4: Encounter!

Because that's all you need to do in 4E and that method above works really well a good amount of the time. If you have 2 wolves and 3 goblins you're not really doing anything different to the (often) random combination's of things in the MM anyway. I would far rather have more creatures, general fluff and such than the large amount of whitespace and area these things took up in MM/MM2.

I just can't see the point in a system where encounter building is already made so ridiculously easy. If I'm mixing together a lot of monster roles and creatures over different levels, then I usually am spending the time to engineer the encounter.


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## LostSoul (Nov 14, 2010)

Flavour matters.

I really like the Monster Vault's flavour.


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## Klaus (Nov 14, 2010)

LostSoul said:


> Flavour matters.
> 
> I really like the Monster Vault's flavour.



Because it's so British, it comes with an "u"?


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## ryanwood92 (Nov 14, 2010)

wat are the new hydras like?....n wats in the animal appendix?


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## fba827 (Nov 14, 2010)

LostSoul said:


> Flavour matters.
> 
> I really like the Monster Vault's flavour.




minty? fruity?  a little of both?


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## Aspeon (Nov 14, 2010)

Funkenstein23 said:


> Around how many of the monsters have tokens to go with them? I'd hope it was all or at least most of them but you never know.




All of them except for minion-only monsters and swarms. (Which use generic "minion" and "swarm" tokens- but only four of the former, which I thought a little odd. Think I might also use skeletons for the generic minions as well, since there are about six of them.) Each monster statblock has the picture of the token to go along with it- there's some overlap/reuse within monsters of the same type, but you won't have a level 7 ogre and a level 15 ogre in the same fight.


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Nov 14, 2010)

ryanwood92 said:


> wat are the new hydras like?....n wats in the animal appendix?




First off, they get free actions even if they're stunned or dominated.  This becomes important later.

Second, they start with 4 heads but lose one at each 25% of max hp damage.  However, if the PCs then don't hit the hydra with a certain damage type (and it changes with the different hydras), 2 heads regenerate at the start of it's next turn. 

It still has threatening reach.

As a standard action, it can bite with each head...but if it only has 2 heads, it gets a +5 to damage...1 head a +15 to damage.

Each bite does 3d10 damage.

But here's the nasty part.

On a trigger where an enemy ends it's turn within 2 squares of the hydra, as a free action it gets two bits on that enemy.  And because it's a free action, it can do that as many times as enemies trigger it.

Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow.  

I love it.


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## lutecius (Nov 14, 2010)

DragoonLance said:


> @ Flobby: Most of the art is the same as the MM, there is some new art too.  The small circle pics are with each monster entry so you can tell which pog it corresponds to.



which monsters get new art?


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## Bold or Stupid (Nov 14, 2010)

What levels are the hydras?


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## UnknownAtThisTime (Nov 14, 2010)

Funkenstein23 said:


> Around how many of the monsters have tokens to go with them? I'd hope it was all or at least most of them but you never know.




Read the post two above yours!

It references a thread with every token listed, and implies that many or most of the monsters have tokens.


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Nov 14, 2010)

Bold or Stupid said:


> What levels are the hydras?




10, 12 and 17.


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