# Weapon damage scaling



## javcs (Dec 15, 2008)

Okay ... I have a problem, I've got a weapon that does 2d10 damage when medium sized. I want to give it to the Huge and Large sized elites that the party will face.
The problem is that I can't find a weapon damage table that has a 2d10 entry to scale upwards.


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## Runestar (Dec 15, 2008)

Use the damage table provided by the improved natural attack feat in MM.



> *Improved Natural Attack [General]*
> 
> *Prerequisite*
> 
> ...





So 2d10 is 4d8 (twice of 2d8) when large and 6d8 when huge.


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## Jhaelen (Dec 15, 2008)

javcs said:


> Okay ... I have a problem, I've got a weapon that does 2d10 damage when medium sized.



I'm curious: What kind of medium-sized weapon does 2d10 damage? I want one!


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## akbearfoot (Dec 15, 2008)

or...what kind of normal 2-handed weapon does 2d10...thats still way over the top...evencompared to elvin thinXXXs and mercurial greatswords.


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## javcs (Dec 15, 2008)

Runestar, I considered that, but then I realized that the size increase and damage dice increase isn't consistent if you use a flat multiplier - ie a 1d4 weapon upsized once is 1d6, upsized again is 1d8, whereas a 2d4 weapon upsized twice is 3d6. 2d8!=3d6 => problem with that idea

Oh, I agree that it's almost certainly unnecessarily big - however ... the PC's aren't going to be able to use them (wrong size and non-proficient). 
Who said it was normal? Also ... a mercurial greatsword isn't particularly over the top.

It's a 2-handed Martial weapon according to the supplement I found it in; I'm making it a 2-handed Exotic weapon. It's in WotC's 3.0e Diablo2: Diablerie supplement for D&D. DMs be warned - don't let your players use that book.
Now, normally, I don't use that book - for anything. However, due to the nature of the campaign and the current opposition (invading forces from another Material Plane - something currently unknown to the party), I've decided that employing aspects from that supplement will help emphasize the fact that the party is facing foes that aren't from around here, even if they look kinda familiar.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 15, 2008)

Weapon sounds overpowered.  If you're using it anyway, I'd estimate 2d10 --> 4d6 --> follow 4d6 progression.

4d6 might be a bit low forthe next size increase, but...the weapon needs no help.


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## irdeggman (Dec 15, 2008)

From the Rules Compendium (pg 152)

medium damage = 2d10

1 size increase = 4d8
2 sizes = 6d8
3 sizes - 8d8
4 sizes = 12d8


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## frankthedm (Dec 15, 2008)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> Weapon sounds overpowered.  If you're using it anyway, I'd estimate 2d10 --> 4d6 --> follow 4d6 progression.
> 
> 4d6 might be a bit low for the next size increase, but...the weapon needs no help.



I'd say go from 2d10 to 3d8, then 4d8.


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## javcs (Dec 17, 2008)

irdeggman said:


> From the Rules Compendium (pg 152)
> 
> medium damage = 2d10
> 
> ...




Awesome. Thanks.

Feh ... Rules Compendium ... one of the few that I haven't read completely has exactly what I'm looking for. Figures.


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## akbearfoot (Dec 17, 2008)

If I were a player and a DM gave NPCs one of these weapons and used it against us, I'd force the group to save them and retire my character and bring in a Psionic warrior with an exotic weapon prof....If the NPCs can do it so can the PCs....if not, you need a reason that can't be overcome by a feat or an spell or enhancement that automatically grants proficiency.

I'd be perfectly happy rolling around 11d8s as base damage after around 11th level.  Eventually even more dice.


The DM can do plenty of things that the PCs can't copy...but deliberately using weapons from strange sources just to abuse dice progression is in that special place where PCs can say 'hrm...that sucked...our turn!'

I would expect most players to miss a dice progression abuse as a -hint- that the monsters were from some place else.


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## irdeggman (Dec 17, 2008)

akbearfoot said:


> If I were a player and a DM gave NPCs one of these weapons and used it against us, I'd force the group to save them and retire my character and bring in a Psionic warrior with an exotic weapon prof....If the NPCs can do it so can the PCs....if not, you need a reason that can't be overcome by a feat or an spell or enhancement that automatically grants proficiency.
> 
> I'd be perfectly happy rolling around 11d8s as base damage after around 11th level.  Eventually even more dice.
> 
> ...





I have a player running a goliath barbarian with a large goliath greathammer. He does 3d6 +7 damage (he has a 20 STR). He hasn't quite learned how to most effectively use his rage and Power Attack though. I have another player who keeps wanted to use his domain spell Enlarge Person to increase his size. I don't want to think of the damge he would do then. . .


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## frankthedm (Dec 17, 2008)

irdeggman said:


> I have a player running a goliath barbarian with a large goliath greathammer. He does 3d6 +7 damage (he has a 20 STR). He hasn't quite learned how to most effectively use his rage and Power Attack though. I have another player who keeps wanted to use his domain spell Enlarge Person to increase his size. I don't want to think of the damge he would do then. . .



You don't have to think about it. Goliaths are not people{Humaniod Type that is]. _Enlarge person_ *does not work *on Monnstrous humanids, Giants or anything else other than a humaniod.


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## irdeggman (Dec 17, 2008)

frankthedm said:


> You don't have to think about it. Goliaths are not people{Humaniod Type that is]. _Enlarge person_ *does not work *on Monnstrous humanids, Giants or anything else other than a humaniod.




Hmm I knew they weren't giant type - I messed up monstrous humanoid as being humanoid (monstrous) instead of a separate type than humanoid.

Good thing it hasn't really come into play yet.

The character running the cleric is playing an aasimar so I told him all of those "person" spells wouldn't work on him since he is outsider (native).


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## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 17, 2008)

Arguably, it's easier for a Human to get a huge weapon than a Goliath.  With the Strong Arm bracers in MIC an eventual steal at 6,000 gp and specifically not stacking with powerful build, the human can already get the same large weapon the goliath has.  Add in the longer duration and cheaper cost / wider availablity of enlarge person versus the expansion power (which WILL work on a goliath), and by level 6-8, it's probably easier for the human barbarian to have a huge weapon.

I suppose if he has the racial mountain rage variant that while raging he could use strong arm bracers (as powerful build is effectively superceded at that point -- he's actually size large, penalties to attacks and AC included), so there's always that.


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## frankthedm (Dec 17, 2008)

irdeggman said:


> Hmm I knew they weren't giant type - I messed up monstrous humanoid as being humanoid (monstrous) instead of a separate type than humanoid.
> 
> Good thing it hasn't really come into play yet.
> 
> The character running the cleric is playing an aasimar so I told him all of those "person" spells wouldn't work on him since he is outsider (native).



Yes, Goliaths  are immune to _enlarge person_, along with the other humanoid targeting "_Person_" spells. On the most part it is quite a boost since those "_Person_" spells usually hose PC bruisers, but in the case of _enlarge person_ it is a slight handycap. Indeed I suspect part of balancing the goliath was to make sure he could not benefit from the common buff of _enlarge person_.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 17, 2008)

frankthedm said:


> Yes, Goliaths  are immune to _enlarge person_, along with the other humanoid targeting "_Person_" spells. On the most part it is quite a boost since those "_Person_" spells usually hose PC bruisers, but in the case of _enlarge person_ it is a slight handycap. Indeed I suspect part of balancing the goliath was to make sure he could not benefit from the common buff of _enlarge person_.




Same with the Half-Giant, also a monstrous humanoid w/ powerful build.  And the Half-Ogre race in RoD that is size large for only +2 LA but is Giant for race.  I don't think there's any race/template combo to abuse (effectively) large size + enlarge person.  Barring the possibility of something broken from Savage Species, a book I don't even pay attention to.


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