# BtVS Spoilers (11/25/02)



## myrdden (Nov 26, 2002)

Holy...great ending to the episode!

I have to admit...I was a bit underwhelmed by the show so far.  But now that the BB has made its move...

I'm not sure if I can wait until January!

Two thumbs up for this episode.

Myrdden


----------



## Crothian (Nov 26, 2002)

Wait till January?  I've got to wait till tommorrow to see the darn thing!!  So not fair people get to see it before me!!


----------



## myrdden (Nov 26, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *Wait till January?  I've got to wait till tommorrow to see the darn thing!!  So not fair people get to see it before me!!   *




That's what I thought too until I was the one who got to see it before others.

The power is intoxicating.

Myrdden


----------



## Nightfall (Nov 26, 2002)

Alright Spoil it for me. I don't get to see it PERIOD. (No freaking UPN station here.) So far all I know is the First Evil has been impersonating dead or close to dead people. What did it do now?


----------



## Crothian (Nov 26, 2002)

At least it's good.  I hate to wait for something and have it turn out to suck.  20 hours and counting till I get too see it.


----------



## coyote6 (Nov 26, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *At least it's good.  I hate to wait for something and have it turn out to suck.  20 hours and counting till I get too see it.   *




Bah! 

It won't air locally for 116 hours. One HUNDRED and SIXTEEN hours. That's nearly four full days after you. Four days of desperately avoiding this forum, sjgames.chatter.tv, the SpoilerSlayer email list, and who knows what else, trying to resist the temptation to just find out what happened!

Argh!


----------



## myrdden (Nov 26, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Alright Spoil it for me. I don't get to see it PERIOD. (No freaking UPN station here.) So far all I know is the First Evil has been impersonating dead or close to dead people. What did it do now? *




SPOILERS AHEAD!







Just a rough outline of the plot as I don't have much time:

Buffy is intent on redeeming Spike, but the First Evil isn't finished with him yet.  Andrew runs into Willow and gets captured by the Gang.  The First Evil (FE) uses Spike to try kill Andrew before he gives away any information, but fails.  So it tries a new tactic.  It sends his flunkies to the Summer home and captures Spike.  It uses Spike's blood to finish opening the seal (apparently Jonathen didn't have enough blood...too small).  The seal opens and some big vampire emerges (the credits call him the UberVampire).

We don't see anything about Giles, but we do get to see the Watcher's Council.  They are trying to find Giles and are concerned about the loss of their "operatives".  During the episode, the council is ransacked by the FE's minions.  This stirs the Council to action and they plan to bring in all their remaining operatives and visit the Hellmouth.

And then the FE blows up their building.  

There are other details I know I am forgetting, but that is the gist of the episode.

Myrdden


----------



## myrdden (Nov 26, 2002)

*More Spoilers*

ONE MORE SPOILER TO ADD...









The Principal walks into the basement and finds Jonathen's body on the seal.  The walks in as if he knows what's down there.  He takes the body and disposes of it near some oil wells.

Is he good or with the bad?  Can't tell by his actions but he definitely is involved.

Myrdden


----------



## Nightfall (Nov 26, 2002)

Perhaps Mister Wood IS the first evil! 

But sounds like a great espidose, especially the blowing up stuff.


----------



## uv23 (Nov 26, 2002)

Personally, I was dissapointed. After the dark and epic year's end episode of Angel, I found this episode of Buffy to be really campy and fromage. The acting was weak, the special effetcs were weak, and the whole things just felt.. well, I dunno.. weak. That whole scene with the Watchers at the end had all the energy of a hand blender.


----------



## KnowTheToesToe (Nov 26, 2002)

Give me a break...NOT the pricipal again!!!  GEEEEZZZ!!  Enough with the evil principal...I know that the Hell Mouth is under the school, but this story line has been done...to death (pun intended).  How about an evil janitor, lunch lady...someone else.


----------



## Nightfall (Nov 26, 2002)

We already had the evil lunch lady. Remember before the mayor's transformation?


----------



## Crothian (Nov 26, 2002)

We have no proof that the principal is evil, so I think we can hold off on that one for a little while.  And Snider wasn't evil, he was there to control the school to make sure certain things were covered up.


----------



## Nightfall (Nov 26, 2002)

True but he was a fairly large SOB by many people estimatations. Even if he wasn't demonic evil.


----------



## myrdden (Nov 27, 2002)

KnowTheToesToe said:
			
		

> *Give me a break...NOT the pricipal again!!!  GEEEEZZZ!!  Enough with the evil principal... *




I agree, it has been done already to a certain extent.  But his actions in the show could be interpreted as being evil or not...uh...evil. (I can't really say good as he did bury the body in anonymous  grave in the middle of nowhere.  Not exactly a shining example of good.)

Myrdden

_edit: bad speller...bad speller..._


----------



## Enchantress (Nov 27, 2002)

I feel your pain, Nightfall, I have no UPN either. I did, however, find out from a comercial that they were doing a Thanksgiving special where Spike goes cold turkey. ( their intended pun, not mine!) Anyway, You lucky people who do have UPN are going to have to keep me updated on Buffy. Kay? Another reason is because I have the hots for Spike big time! You can go ahead and make fun of me for it as long as you still tell me about the episodes.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 27, 2002)

Pretty good episode.  I was happy that when Spike went after Andrew Buffy stepped in and was able to deal with him easily.  However, when the Harbingers attacked she was about as successful as any of the others.  I'd just like them to once show her in her fighting glory.  Zander and Buffy should be having the same amount of success aginst similiar foes.


----------



## Angelsboi (Nov 27, 2002)

Bob Flutie wasnt evil, Sneider was.  We have had an evil Lunch Lady and a couple evil teachers.  i dont think woods is evil.

I thought it was a great episode.  The Council is gone, Giles is MIA and we're facing the First Evil.  The very first vampire Giles talked about in season 1 episode 1.  

I KNEW it was them when i saw they had no eyes.

Its going to be the best season yet.  And i loved how Willow intimidated Andrew and she didnt resort to magic.  Shes trying


----------



## DanMcS (Nov 27, 2002)

I don't get it.  Buffy said she'd seen those guys with no eyes before, but I don't think I recognize them.  Where are they from?  I can't even remember the season they were in.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 27, 2002)

DanMcS said:
			
		

> *I don't get it.  Buffy said she'd seen those guys with no eyes before, but I don't think I recognize them.  Where are they from?  I can't even remember the season they were in. *




Season 3, the episode is called Amends.  The first Evil is torturing Angel and Buffy runs into those guys underground, under the Christmas Tree Lot.


----------



## Angelsboi (Nov 27, 2002)

It manifested as Jenny Calender.  I bet we see her agan this season


----------



## tabrumj (Nov 27, 2002)

Yes yes yes,
I knew it was the first evil ever since the visitations episode. I love it when a show is so consistent in style that you can tell a villain from their MO.

All in all I htought this was a completly rocking episode, it was really great at ratcheting up the tension and revealling more of the plot without even really telling us what is going on. I am sorry they blew up the council though, I wanted to see Sunnydale invaded by the tea and crumpet brigade armed to the teeth.

My only real complaint is that they still haven't shown us what happened to Giles, darn it.

<raving fan boy mode off>

On more detailed analysis did Xanders monlogue about having his heart  ripped out and replaced with darkness strike anyone as just a bit bad? How do we know that something more isn't  going on with him? Especially given the fact that they have done nothing to show the FE messing with him.

Also what do you think is up with the vampire that was freed from the seal. It looke similar to the master but I am more than willing to attribute that to the effects that vamps suffer from age. The real question is how old is it and what was the first evils motivation in raising it?


----------



## tabrumj (Nov 27, 2002)

Angelsboi said:
			
		

> *It manifested as Jenny Calender.  I bet we see her agan this season *




Yhat's more than a fair bet, assuming that the first evil can find a use for her image. The only one that is really likely with is Giles. Hm, I really hope we end up seeing her.


----------



## Angelsboi (Nov 27, 2002)

Jenny was a great character and i cried when she died and what Angelus did to Giles.

And yes, he did look like the Master but i have found one fault.  Kakistos.  Or as Buffy called him, Taquitos.  He was so old and ancient, he had cloven hooves.  How come this first evil vampire that Giles spoke about doesnt?


----------



## Welverin (Nov 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tabrumj _*On more detailed analysis did Xanders monlogue about having his heart  ripped out and replaced with darkness strike anyone as just a bit bad? How do we know that something more isn't  going on with him? Especially given the fact that they have done nothing to show the FE messing with him.*




Huh? I just saw as him going off a bit about how he feels, did you see it as something more?


----------



## LostSoul (Nov 27, 2002)

tabrumj said:
			
		

> *On more detailed analysis did Xanders monlogue about having his heart  ripped out and replaced with darkness strike anyone as just a bit bad? *




I thought he was talking about his feelings about Anya.


----------



## kreynolds (Nov 27, 2002)

Honestly, I barely found this episode interesting at all. The dialog between Buffy and Spike (in the chair) seemed forced, though the bit where she says she sees a lot of good in him, and believes that he can be a good man, was very touching.

The black robe guys actually had trouble fighting Xander?! What the heck is that all about? They kill potential frickin' slayers, and their watchers, for a living!!!

The watchers council gets blown up (totally uncreative and unimaginative). Like they ever do anything anyway.

Oh, and of course there was the lame as heck so called "big bad". Master vampire, huh? Been there. Killed that. I enjoyed the "big bad" more when I though it was the shape-shifting thing-a-ma-bob. Heck, even Blade II did a better job with the Reapers than they did with the makeup on this BB master vampire.

The only thing I liked about this episode was the scenes with Anya and Xander. Those were funny as hell.


----------



## kreynolds (Nov 27, 2002)

LostSoul said:
			
		

> *I thought he was talking about his feelings about Anya. *




He was. I found it pretty damn entertaining too.


----------



## Welverin (Nov 27, 2002)

kreynolds said:
			
		

> *Oh, and of course there was the lame as heck so called "big bad". Master vampire, huh? Been there. Killed that. I enjoyed the "big bad" more when I though it was the shape-shifting thing-a-ma-bob.*



Maybe we'll get lucky and the "shape-shifting thing-a-ma-bob" is the big bad and not mr-lame-ass-wanna-be-bad-ass vampire man.


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 27, 2002)

Very entertaining episode.  Answered a few questions but brought up twice as many more.  I still don't think we are getting the full story.  Yeah, the First Evil is involved but I believe there is more to it than that.  Count on it.  

I liked the whole thing with the Watcher's Council.  I liked Buffy & Spike's coversations.  The Andrew/Willow, Andrew/Anya/Xander & Wood/Dawn interactions were great, too.  Easily one of the best eps of the season.  I think we are getting a total of 2 new Buffy's over the next 2 months.  Doh.


----------



## sotmh (Nov 27, 2002)

I thought the thing with the Watcher's Council was funny.  It was like: "We've decided that we're finally going to do something!" boom. The FA probably did Buffy a favor by keeping those guys out of her hair. 

The Anya and Xander stuff was hilarious, not to mention Willow trying to be all scary.  I'm sorry, but without the veiny black hair magic badness she just seems like such a creampuff. 

No Giles - 

Spike and Buffy was ho hum until Buffy revealed why she spared Spike.  That was quite touching and shows how much of a hero she really is. 

I just hope that Andrew lives long enough to get thrown in prison for murdering Jonathan.  

sotmh


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 27, 2002)

I think Woods is a watcher, some one informed them that the first evil was roaming about. 

Are the Watchers gone?  Or was that explosion set off by them to cover their tracks as they head for the Hellmouth?  

Love the stuff with Andrew, the pig killing was very well done. 

Xander - we see what he has been keeping bottled up in this one.  He has not forgot or forgiven the actions of Anya or Buffy.  I also think it shows him moving away from the scoobies in maturity.  My money is on him killing Spike (either one).  He also shows him getting stronger and tougher, he is giving as much as he gets now, he can hold his own.  

Anya was hot in this one (has she lost some size) but she also showed what was bottled up when she slapped Xander.  Did you see the looks on their faces!   

Willow has come a long way, she did not even get rough and mean beyond the Willow way on Andrew.  

An interesting episode.


----------



## Pielorinho (Nov 27, 2002)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *Love the stuff with Andrew, the pig killing was very well done.
> *




"THAT'LL DO, PIG!!!"

bwahahahahahaha

Daniel


----------



## Bill Muench (Nov 27, 2002)

Welverin said:
			
		

> *
> Maybe we'll get lucky and the "shape-shifting thing-a-ma-bob" is the big bad and not mr-lame-ass-wanna-be-bad-ass vampire man. *




Personally, I'm guessing that the vampire the FE released is more of a distraction than anything else. Not to say he'll be easy to kill, but I think the FE is just trying to use other people/creatures to reach her goals.


----------



## Hand of Vecna (Nov 27, 2002)

that's my guess, to, that Uber-Vamp is some sort of Uber-Minion.


----------



## myrdden (Nov 27, 2002)

Bill Muench said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Personally, I'm guessing that the vampire the FE released is more of a distraction than anything else. Not to say he'll be easy to kill, but I think the FE is just trying to use other people/creatures to reach her goals. *




That's my thought too.

Myrdden


----------



## Angelsboi (Nov 27, 2002)

*SUPPOSEDLY*
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Yeah the singer Ashanti is going to be some sort of priestess and they have signed on three girls to be Slayers IN Training for the next episode WHICH one will not survive.

Also, we will have an asian, brittish speaking slayer in training soon as well.  Shes going to be a big part of it as will Faith when she returns to Angel for three episodes and then to Buffy for the last 5


----------



## Storminator (Nov 27, 2002)

Hand of Vecna said:
			
		

> *that's my guess, to, that Uber-Vamp is some sort of Uber-Minion. *




I thought that as well. The FE was standing there as Spike as the UV came out. Why would you be gloating and shapeshifted as you watch YOURSELF get released. Doesn't make sense.

And I thought the Master looked the way he did as a concious imitation of the first vampire, so it made a lot of sense that this guy looked like him. (I think that sentence is too convoluted even for me...)

PS


----------



## Lady Mer (Nov 27, 2002)

On another note, it seems to me that whatever was trying to prevent Dawn's encounter with Joyce wasn't the FE. The FE could not physically act, merely manipulate, and whatever was trying to stop Dawn certainly had physical effects. (For instance, the living room.) Which doesn't answer the question of whether it was really Joyce or the FE, and does raise the question of what it really was, but it is an interesting thought.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, too.


----------



## KnowTheToe (Nov 27, 2002)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Anya was hot in this one (has she lost some size) *




I think she has got grossly thin.  I have not seen this episode yet (tonight hopefully), but in the last few she looks like a skeleton.  Yet another attractive starlett starving herself. 

I wish hollywood would watch out for each other more rather than watching people destroy themselves and then talk about what a shame it was on E! True hollywood Story.


----------



## KnowTheToe (Nov 27, 2002)

Oh, i forgot to ask, is there another LAME musical act highlighted in the show.  I hate it when writers can't flesh out an entire episode so they throw in horrible cover bands.  In at least the last three episodes they have had sucky bands highlighted during the show.  What is this, frigin BH 90210?


----------



## Crothian (Nov 27, 2002)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> *Oh, i forgot to ask, is there another LAME musical act highlighted in the show.  I hate it when writers can't flesh out an entire episode so they throw in horrible cover bands.  In at least the last three episodes they have had sucky bands highlighted during the show.  What is this, frigin BH 90210? *




It's a through back to first season.


----------



## Angelsboi (Nov 27, 2002)

Anya being skinny is for her role in an upcoming movie Darkness Falls - a horror due out in 2003 about a Tooth Fairy.  Its a dark horror.  good D20 Modern =)

Anwho, yes, its a throwback to 1st season.  It all comes back tot he 1st season.  1st slayer, 1st evil, its all coming wheel full first.  And Willow will pay for what she did to Warren last season.  Joss said it will happen.  And it will.  Everyone is going to feel reprecussions of their actions this season and i am for one am excited


----------



## KnowTheToe (Nov 28, 2002)

I would be more excited without the lame music wasting time.  Maybe they need it to keep the younger crowd interested.


----------



## WizarDru (Nov 28, 2002)

Heh.  Except that Aimee Mann is hardly that young.  You might remember her from the group 'til Tuesday (as in "Hush, keep it down now, voices carry").  Some folks like the music as much as you don't...though I could take it or leave it, personally.


----------



## Bamphalas (Nov 28, 2002)

*Emma in Darkness Falls*



			
				Angelsboi said:
			
		

> *Anya being skinny is for her role in an upcoming movie Darkness Falls - a horror due out in 2003 about a Tooth Fairy.  Its a dark horror.  good D20 Modern =)*



Darkness Falls wrapped shooting late last year.  So her recent thinness _should_ be unrelated. Originally due out this year, the movie's current release date is January 24, 2003. (The day after my birthday. )

_Side note:_ Darkness Falls has gone by at least five different titles, including Don't Peek, Fear of the Dark, The Tooth Fairy, The Ghost of Matilda Dixon, and a number of variations thereof.  It's odd that they would finally choose the same title shared by a movie that was just released 1999.  You'd think they'd want to avoid confusion.

I don't think she looks particularly thin in this promo shot for DF. (Just hot as always):





If the image doesn't show, go here.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 28, 2002)

It's good to see her get some work.


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Emma in Darkness Falls*



			
				Bamphalas said:
			
		

> *
> I don't think she looks particularly thin in this promo shot for DF. (Just hot as always):
> *



Gotta agree.  Looks good and healthy to me.  Of course it is a promo shot so it's probably touched up a tad.


----------



## KnowTheToe (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Emma in Darkness Falls*



			
				John Crichton said:
			
		

> *Gotta agree.  Looks good and healthy to me.  Of course it is a promo shot so it's probably touched up a tad.   *




Looks good in the promo shot, but how much of any promo shot is real?  It was the two episodes prior to this one she looked real thin.  In one she wore a translucent shirt and you could see the sticks, I mean arms, and bones were popping out of everywhere and she had no hips for her jeans to rest on.

Anyway, if people want music they have MTV and the radio, I can't believe anyone ever watches Buffy because of some hack band has a minute of play time.  I mean between the last week on Buffy and the music scenes, you lose 5 minutes of show which is about 15%.  

I just finished this weeks and I don't think there was any music scenes


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Emma in Darkness Falls*



			
				KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Looks good in the promo shot, but how much of any promo shot is real?  It was the two episodes prior to this one she looked real thin.  In one she wore a translucent shirt and you could see the sticks, I mean arms, and bones were popping out of everywhere and she had no hips for her jeans to rest on.*



Well, I did say it was probably touched up.  

She still looks more healthy than SMG (who really needs a sandwich and a slice of pie).  Watching the Season 2 DVD's I really saw how much thinner she is now.  SMG was much better looking back then.


:: edited to make sense ::


----------



## Nightfall (Nov 28, 2002)

I'm looking forward to seeing Faith on Angel. Should be interesting. She fights one Big Bad on Angel, and comes back to Sunnydale to fight the last one!  I also wonder how Wes will react to all this. They didn't exact part on good terms...


----------



## Crothian (Nov 28, 2002)

I think most of the females on Buffy and Angel can use at least an extra real meal a day.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 28, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *I'm looking forward to seeing Faith on Angel. Should be interesting. She fights one Big Bad on Angel, and comes back to Sunnydale to fight the last one!  I also wonder how Wes will react to all this. They didn't exact part on good terms... *




I'd just like to see that episode when she was on Angel.  I never got a chance to see that.  We need those on DVD.


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 28, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *I think most of the females on Buffy and Angel can use at least an extra real meal a day. *



Come to think of it, Willow did look a tad skinnier than usual.  The one exception I would make would be Michelle Trachtenberg, she actually looks naturally thin.

And on a totally separate note I just realized that there are only 2 male regulars left on Buffy (Xander & Spike).  Bygones.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 28, 2002)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> *Bygones. *




Wow, you must be that other male that watched that show.  I never thought I'd actually meet him.


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 28, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *Wow, you must be that other male that watched that show.  I never thought I'd actually meet him.   *



Loved it.  I have actually only met one other guy who has watched it of his own freewill.  

The only season I didn't watch was the final season (too much work for me).  The odd thing is that I actually started watching it because Flockhart looked oddly like a skinnier version of SMG.    There was some really good writing for that show I have to say.


----------



## Welverin (Nov 28, 2002)

Angelsboi said:
			
		

> *SUPPOSEDLY
> .
> .
> .
> Also, we will have an asian, brittish speaking slayer in training soon as well.*





She named Bettsy?


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 2, 2002)

Kind of doubt. I've had some time, since my non exactly self-imposed exile gave me some ideas/insight.

Perhaps what has to happen is, Faith and Buffy HAVE to duke it out again, because this time the First Evil is manlipulating the situation to the degree that, much like the Master, he's planning on opening a gateway INTO it's reality. Though the First can touch ours, it's too powerful or confinded to actually DO anything. So it needs Dawny, the Hellmouth and Buffy to open a controlled dimenisional rift into it's reality. Dawn, (being the Key) is the power source, the Hellmouth is the road way, Buffy is the impetus for controlling the WAY which the Key can be channelled INTO the Hellmouth and thus open a controlled rift into the First's realm. 

Comments, Ideas, questions for anyone?


----------



## Crothian (Dec 2, 2002)

Another though: Since Dawn can't trust Buffy perhaps Dawn will turn to Faith.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 2, 2002)

There's possibly that. Course I wonder how much Dawn will trust Faith. I mean Dawn is still part Buffy too. They both remember what went down between Faith and Buffy.


----------



## DanMcS (Dec 2, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Dawn, (being the Key) is the power source...
> 
> Comments, Ideas, questions for anyone? *




I'm pretty sure Dawn isn't the key anymore.  Just a girl.  She was the key, but that magic gate has been opened and closed, and Buffy fell through it and died, so it's closed for good.  No more key-ness.  That was the only gate she was good for.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 2, 2002)

You sure? Perhaps even though her Keyness might be a little faded, she's still got in her. It's not like it went Poof or someone cast a spells and it's gone.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 2, 2002)

I tend to think she's still the key.  They really haven't said or mentioned anything that would make me beleive otherwise.


----------



## KnowTheToe (Dec 2, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *I tend to think she's still the key.  They really haven't said or mentioned anything that would make me beleive otherwise. *




Yep, she is still the Key.  Only now we don't think anyone is looking for her.


----------



## DanMcS (Dec 2, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *You sure? Perhaps even though her Keyness might be a little faded, she's still got in her. It's not like it went Poof or someone cast a spells and it's gone. *




Yeah, but they implied that was the only available time for Glorificus's hellgate to be opened.  And that was definitely the only gate she was good for- if keys were transitive, Glory would have found a different one.  They've made a big deal out of how she was a real girl, in addition to being the key, but since there's nothing left for her to be the key /to/, I think she's just a girl now.


----------



## KnowTheToe (Dec 2, 2002)

Could be, but is the gate Glory opened not still in exisitance?  I figured she was still the key, but the portal was closed and locked again.  I don't  know if they addressed it, if so, I did not pay too much attention.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 3, 2002)

Okay admittedly I'm not certified in quantuam theory or anything remotely relating to such physics, BUT if dimenson CAN connect, and such powers can open portals (eg the Key), maybe the reason the key had to be opened at a certain time MIGHT be because of the harmonic/natural sympathic energies involved. Perhaps Dawn's "keyness" is related more to certain portals WHEN they are receptive to such energies. Perhaps now the Hellmouth WILL be receptive because it's opening at a certain time. 

(btw agrees with Crothy that they couldn't just blam, take away her Keyness without some serious stuff being mentioned)

Perhaps the Key opens a portal, but it's only when the portal is at a certain energy peak. Much like tidal forces. The key itself doesn't open the portal, merely acts as a insert for a tumble lock. Meaning to open the RIGHT portal, you need the right things in place. Thus Dawn's keyness isn't lost, merely less accentuated.


----------



## Angelsboi (Dec 3, 2002)

umm im a guy who freely watches the show.  Ive been watching for 7 years now.  Or do i not count =)


----------



## Whodat (Dec 3, 2002)

It looks as though the FE appears to it's agents in the form of people who have died - including when it appears as Spike and Buffy.  

So I’m wondering if Giles will return to the show… as a doppelganger.

And what better way to undermine the Scoobies than to appear as someone they trust above all others?

Anthony Stewart Head has said (in more than one interview) how he would like Giles to have more of a dark edge to him, maybe even go bad. Hmm. Maybe he finally got his wish.

Sorry, but I just can’t see Giles surviving a blow like that – unless he had some kind of protective barrier.


----------



## KnowTheToe (Dec 3, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Okay admittedly I'm not certified in quantuam theory *





Then why are you posting here????  I thought everyone was pre-qualified as quantuam theorists.  I will have to talk to Morrus.


----------



## WizarDru (Dec 3, 2002)

Whodat said:
			
		

> *Sorry, but I just can’t see Giles surviving a blow like that – unless he had some kind of protective barrier. *




You're not supposed to, of course.  Otherwise his reappearance, whenever it is, wouldn't be so much of a suprise. 

Personally, my theory is that he had a shielding spell up, having gotten some power from the coven.  I could be wrong. 


As for the Principal, I suspect he's a government agent...but after the whole 'Jonathon' thing...well, that's beginning to feel more and more like a looney theory.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 3, 2002)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> Then why are you posting here????  I thought everyone was pre-qualified as quantuam theorists.  I will have to talk to Morrus. *




Because I'm the Sage of the Scarred Lands and it's Evangalist!


----------



## Crothian (Dec 3, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Because I'm the Sage of the Scarred Lands and it's Evangalist!    *




Unnofficial that he may be.  

So, do we know when the new shows are going to start back up yet?


----------



## coyote6 (Dec 3, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *So, do we know when the new shows are going to start back up yet? *




There will be a new episode on December 17th, "Bring On the Night." The description is up at TVGuide.com.

I don't think that's the start of a new run of new shows, however, especially since the next two Tuesdays are Christmas & New Year's Eves. So beyond that, I'd expect sometime in late January, possibly not even until February (which will of course have all new episodes, since it's sweeps).


----------



## KnowTheToe (Dec 3, 2002)

excellent.  I can watch Buffy and then get ready for a midnight viewing of The Two Towers.  I have never gone to a midnight viewing of anything but horror movies and am looking forward to the experience.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 3, 2002)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> *excellent.  I can watch Buffy and then get ready for a midnight viewing of The Two Towers.  I have never gone to a midnight viewing of anything but horror movies and am looking forward to the experience. *




Midnight shows are great.  As are 24 hour movie marathons.  I miss the days I was able to do this.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 3, 2002)

coyote6 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> There will be a new episode on December 17th, "Bring On the Night." The description is up at TVGuide.com.
> *




They actually have an actress I've heard of as one of the slayers in training.  It's just nice to reconginize names of people on a great show


----------



## uv23 (Dec 3, 2002)

Excuse the tangent, but if there's a new Buffy episode on Dec 17th does that mean that we'll also see a new Angel episode? Or is that still not going to happen until the new year? Cheers.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 3, 2002)

Seems like we don't get any new Angels shows for a while.


----------



## DanMcS (Dec 4, 2002)

Watching the rerun now, didn't figure it was worth its own post.  I kinda missed the beginning of this one the first time it was on, so I'm glad to see it.

Heh.  "And when exactly did your sister get unbelievably scary?"


----------



## coyote6 (Dec 4, 2002)

uv23 said:
			
		

> *Excuse the tangent, but if there's a new Buffy episode on Dec 17th does that mean that we'll also see a new Angel episode? Or is that still not going to happen until the new year? Cheers. *




Not until January 8th, from what I've read. That's a Wednesday, BTW -- Angel is apparently moving from Sundays to Wednesdays, replacing Birds of Prey.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 4, 2002)

Nice to see the WB rewarding a good show with a better day than Sunday.


----------



## kreynolds (Dec 4, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Nice to see the WB rewarding a good show with a better day than Sunday. *




You ain't just whistlin' dixie! Besides, Angel was getting in the way of Alias.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 4, 2002)

I know. Last night was the first time in a while I got to watch Alias again. I feel a little lost but at least I could follow the conflict between Sydney, her dad and her mom.


----------



## DM_Matt (Dec 4, 2002)

Angelsboi said:
			
		

> *umm im a guy who freely watches the show.  Ive been watching for 7 years now.  Or do i not count =) *




I think they mean Ally McBeal, the source of the catch phrase 'bygones.'  

My parents watched it so I caught some of it.  I was a guy who watched it voluntarily, but incidentally.  i.e. If the family was watching it, I would occasionally join in.


----------



## Hand of Vecna (Dec 4, 2002)

re: the Uber-Vampire released at the end of the last new ep -- is it possible this Uber-Vamp is the FIRST Vampire?

True, Kakistos (Taquitos?) was a vampire so long that his feet had become cloven hooves (thus showing the demon within warping his body more and more) but who says all the vampire-demons are hooved?  And did we ever get to really see the Uber-Vampire's feet?  The Uber-Vampire looked quite fiendish to me, morseo than The Master, so maybe it is The first Vampire (fittingly raised by The First Evil).

anywho, just a thought...

oh, an re: Dawn's "Key-ness," here's a truly frightening thought -- _Buffy: the Vampire Slayer_ meets _Sliders_.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 5, 2002)

LOL!  Yeah only in this, we don't have to worry about her fighting Crogmags.  Just demons.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 5, 2002)

Buffy would waste the Cromags.  Heck, she could go and rescue Wade.


----------



## John Crichton (Dec 5, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *Buffy would waste the Cromags.  Heck, she could go and rescue Wade. *



Yes, from the evil producers holding her hostage at *Continental Corp*.  



> _Hand of Vecna_
> *oh, an re: Dawn's "Key-ness," here's a truly frightening thought -- Buffy: the Vampire Slayer meets Sliders.*



And let this be the last time we speak of it, for it may come true if we continue to speak this Evil's name!


----------



## Crothian (Dec 5, 2002)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> *Yes, from the evil producers holding her hostage at Continental Corp.
> *




It's not like that show lasted that long either.  Wasn't she also on a short lived sitcom after that?  But Sports Night was by far the best of three.


----------



## John Crichton (Dec 5, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *
> It's not like that show lasted that long either.  Wasn't she also on a short lived sitcom after that?  But Sports Night was by far the best of three. *



True, but I thought it was the best one I've seen her on.    I wasn't aware that she was on anything else after that.  But she may have been.


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 9, 2002)

Okay, for those of us who need anger managment because we don't have no stinkin' UPN, WHO THE HECK IS WADE?????????


----------



## Lady Mer (Dec 9, 2002)

Wade was the original female character on Sliders. After that, she was on Sports Night, a wonderful show that no one watched.


----------



## DanMcS (Dec 9, 2002)

Wade was great.  They replaced her with that army girl, who was cute but lacking in the character department.  They just started swapping all the characters around and finally the show fell apart, what a shame, it had such a good beginning.  I didn't really like the cromag plot, but it was creative.

And, on a Buffy note, 
http://www.stanford.edu/~bthomas/vamp/vampecology.htm

Hehe.  Apparently even phd students occasionally have spare time.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 9, 2002)

Lady Mer said:
			
		

> *Wade was the original female character on Sliders. After that, she was on Sports Night, a wonderful show that no one watched. *




But now both seasons are on DVD in the same set, so I can sit back and watch all 45 episodes whenever I want


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 10, 2002)

I hated the last season. At least with Quinn and his bro, there was some character to it. (Though you are right Dan, the replacement gal sucked. It's too bad they couldn't have kept the great John Rhys-Davies on a little longer. But I guess even HE had enough of them sliding around the multi-verse with little or no purpose.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 10, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *I hated the last season. At least with Quinn and his bro, there was some character to it. (Though you are right Dan, the replacement gal sucked. It's too bad they couldn't have kept the great John Rhys-Davies on a little longer. But I guess even HE had enough of them sliding around the multi-verse with little or no purpose. *




Well, the show really changed when it went to the sci fi network.  I like that they gave it a chance to continue, it's just a shame they couldn't do anything with it.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 10, 2002)

Sci-fi can NEVER do anything with any shows given to it. Same thing happened with Babylon 5, the Invisible Man and the Chroncile.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 10, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Sci-fi can NEVER do anything with any shows given to it. Same thing happened with Babylon 5, the Invisible Man and the Chroncile. *




I didn't think Bab 5 was ever Sci Fi's.  Sci Fi ran the show in rerun, but I thought the original episodes were always on another station.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I could be wrong..but I thought for sure Bablyon 5's 5th season, they ran on Sci-fi.


----------



## WizarDru (Dec 10, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Well I could be wrong..but I thought for sure Bablyon 5's 5th season, they ran on Sci-fi. *




You are quite wrong.  B5 was in syndication for seasons 1-4, originally part of WB's syndication package, then on local WB stations (often thrown in vicious spots to hide it, such as 2AM for my local station, during some of it's best seasons) and then finally was moved to TNT for the final season.

TNT tried everything in their power to mess with it, although they produced a series of reasonable tv-movies.

TNT then majorly messed with B5: Crusade, which was a fantastic show done a major disservice.  TNT, for example, demanded a new pilot (as opposed to the far superior one, which appears as 6th or 7th) that oppened with a fist fight, and a lengthy episode-long explanation for the slower members of the audience of what the story was about.  

Sci-fi merely rebroadcast the show in syndication, and then repackaged it with a widescreen presentation (although they sometimes messed it up, that was WB's fault).  They did produce B5:Legend of the Rangers, but chose not to make it a series, despite good ratings.  But, well...talk to Farscape fans about that.


----------



## Tiberius (Dec 10, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Well I could be wrong..but I thought for sure Bablyon 5's 5th season, they ran on Sci-fi. *




Nope, Sci-Fi got the reruns.  Season 5 and the half season or so of Crusade ran first on TNT.

-Tiberius


----------



## Hand of Evil (Dec 10, 2002)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *
> 
> TNT tried everything in their power to mess with it, although they produced a series of reasonable tv-movies.
> 
> ...




Don't forget TNT wanted more SEX too on Crusade.


----------



## WizarDru (Dec 10, 2002)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Don't forget TNT wanted more SEX too on Crusade. *




Oh, but I try.  I try very hard.  As I recall, they wanted an alien female who was 'addicted to sex', or some such nonsense.

Honestly, if they wanted Lexx, why didn't they just buy that, instead?


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 10, 2002)

Okay guys my bad. In any case, I still don't trust Sci-fi to do anything right with an existing series that changes networks. I will say I do agree, TNT majorly screwed over Crusade. However I do wish they had had some balls and kept Witchblade going. Season two had some really FINE moments to it, regardless of Miss Butler's habits.


----------



## John Crichton (Dec 10, 2002)

Wow, this topic (with help from me, doh!) has skidded horribly off-topic.  LOL  As for the SciFi Channel, I will never watch anything they broadcast again unless they bring back Farscape for a 5th season.   

Er, well I'll watch the last part of Farscape's 4th season but after that....


----------



## DanMcS (Dec 11, 2002)

Oh!  Just saw the preview for next week's buffy- it was on after the rerun tonight.

SPOILER

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

Giles is in the next episode.  He shows up at Buffy's door with three slayers in training.  Looks like he dodged the axe after all, too bad they had to leave us in suspense for WEEKS.

Unless he died, and it's the First Evil impersonating him, how evil would that be?  EVIL.  But that's what we like in our evils, some good wholesome disturbing evil.

E
N
D

S
P
O
I
L
E
R


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 11, 2002)

I'm HAPPY! Just got a new T.V that actually has UPN! In fact, I just got done watching Buffy!
*Does a victory dance*


----------



## Crothian (Dec 11, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *I'm HAPPY! Just got a new T.V that actually has UPN! In fact, I just got done watching Buffy!
> *Does a victory dance* *




Excellent, glad to hear that.  Willow's homecoming was a good episode, nice and creepy.


----------



## Hand of Vecna (Dec 11, 2002)

"Are you alone?  The wind talks to you when you're alone...."


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 13, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Excellent, glad to hear that.  Willow's homecoming was a good episode, nice and creepy. *




I liked it too. Creepy first, then more emotional. By the by, because I have been left in the dark so long, Why was Spike (one of the hottest guys in existence) insane?


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 13, 2002)

You too might be a little nuts especially if you had to put up with Drusicalla and her nonsensical chatter.


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

You're just jealous because the voices talk to her and not you.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 14, 2002)

Spike's insane because he has his soul back and cannot deal with the great evils he has commited.


----------



## Ds Da Man (Dec 14, 2002)

BTW.....I'm a 29 father of 2 (4 and 7), and started watching BtVS because my wife and daughter liked it. Now, I'm an addict! It peeved me off so bad when FOX (cable) just showed last seasons episodes, and the main geek had just shot Buff and Tara. Then, nothing.................WTF??? I don't get UPN and am seriously hating it! I wish the sex would be a little less though! A little girl watching the show, and I have to cover her eyes.

 I think it is the combination of humor, and action that sells it for me. I really like the cast, and though some of the stories are lame, I STILL WATCH, even rereruns!


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

Ds Da Man said:
			
		

> *BTW.....I'm a 29 father of 2 (4 and 7), and started watching BtVS because my wife and daughter liked it. Now, I'm an addict! It peeved me off so bad when FOX (cable) just showed last seasons episodes, and the main geek had just shot Buff and Tara. Then, nothing.................WTF??? I don't get UPN and am seriously hating it! I wish the sex would be a little less though! A little girl watching the show, and I have to cover her eyes.
> 
> I think it is the combination of humor, and action that sells it for me. I really like the cast, and though some of the stories are lame, I STILL WATCH, even rereruns! *




you're right. It can get a little rowdy sometimes. And the characters are what drew me to the show to...namely Spike...


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

P.S. I am trying unsuccessfully to find a btvs site. Does anyone know of any besides upn.com?


----------



## Crothian (Dec 14, 2002)

http://www.buffyguide.com/


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

Thanx.


----------



## Nightfall (Dec 14, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *You're just jealous because the voices talk to her and not you. *




Nooo. I got voices. I just think mine are more interesting.


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

Point taken.


----------



## nHammer (Dec 15, 2002)

Hand of Vecna said:
			
		

> *"Are you alone?  The wind talks to you when you're alone...." *




Well now that's just creepy....


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 15, 2002)

Most fo us are.


----------



## Crothian (Dec 16, 2002)

Isn't that the fun of it all though?


----------



## Henry (Dec 16, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *P.S. I am trying unsuccessfully to find a btvs site. Does anyone know of any besides upn.com? *




I'll also tout www.scoopme.com here, because it's discussion forums are some of the best discussion forums on the net - the posters are generally very insightful, and easily quality-on-par with the discussions on our own boards here.


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 21, 2002)

Henry said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'll also tout www.scoopme.com here, because it's discussion forums are some of the best discussion forums on the net - the posters are generally very insightful, and easily quality-on-par with the discussions on our own boards here. *




Let me correct myself. I am trying to find a website with pics of the episodes for the 6 season.


----------



## Jemal (Dec 22, 2002)

Buffy sites?  Type it into a search engine and you'll find a few hundred.

here are a few I bookmarked.
http://www.pure-evilness.com/buffy/frameset2.htm
http://www.buffysearch.com (awesome site, lotsa links)
http://www.buffyworld.com (my personal fave)
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/rampling/271/index.html
and, for those out there who, like me, think Spike is the best thing before OR since sliced bread:
http://www.geocities.com/shortee_82_1999/spikesslavesmain.html

oh, 1 note to Enchantress: I like the sig... Seems familiar for some reason.


----------



## Enchantress (Jan 5, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> *oh, 1 note to Enchantress: I like the sig... Seems familiar for some reason.  *




Yeah, well...I noticed the same thing on a dif. thread and raved at you, but I feel better now. Maybe great minds think alike.


----------

