# [d&d 3.5] Bonus Language Lists for Races



## theoremtank (Feb 7, 2003)

In light of coming d&d 3.5 revisions...

What are your thoughts (everyone) on bonus language lists for different races?  That is, do you think it makes sense for the Players Handbook to outline what languages a race can or cannot choose, given a high enough intelligence?  I am interested in getting a conversation going as to the pros and cons of this concept.

I personally think that bonus language restrictions are not an important enough game mechanic to keep around.  I have only found them to be restrictive toward roleplaying unconventional characters.  Besides the language restrictions given in the Player's Handbook are too specific to the Greyhawk world.  I believe the Player's Handbook should move towards more campaign setting ambiguity.  Getting rid of language lists for races would be a move in this direction.


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## Dr. Zoom (Feb 7, 2003)

It's possible the lists will be cut in favor of choosing any language, but I doubt it.  I just rule 0 it and let the PC choose a language not on the list if it fits his character.


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## Dungannon (Feb 7, 2003)

theoremtank said:
			
		

> *I believe the Player's Handbook should move towards more campaign setting ambiguity.  Getting rid of language lists for races would be a move in this direction. *



I agree with this, initial language options should be determined by the specific campaign world & DM, not by a "master list".  Of course, most DMs already ignore or modify the initial language list, so....


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## Droogie (Feb 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: [d&d 3.5] Bonus Language Lists for Races*



			
				Dungannon said:
			
		

> *Of course, most DMs already ignore or modify the initial language list, so.... *





This is one of WotC's main criteria for revising rules. If everyone ignores a rule or they house-rule it to dust, then eventually it gets chucked in a later revision, I suppose.

They've said that this revision will be all about options and not restrictions, so hopefully we'll see an official end to the language barrier.


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## niteshade6 (Feb 7, 2003)

Well you do realize that if you spend 2 skill points you can take any language you want, not just ones on your bonus language list. That list just reflects skills you can be expected to pick up while you were growing up, not what languages you can learn later on. As a result, I think it's quite reasonable.


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## Nightfall (Feb 7, 2003)

Considering the fact that in the Scarred Lands we have around 8-10 version of common, trolls orcs and harpies all speak the same language (generally), and the fact draconic is rarely used...well language changes are not something I'm going to wrap my head around too hard in this revision.


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## darkbard (Feb 7, 2003)

i think the language restrictions aren't a bad thing when considered as a baseline for how the various races interact in generic terms.  so, as a guideline they have utility.  as a restriction, on the other hand....


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## Ranger REG (Feb 7, 2003)

IMHO, there should be default automatic language and bonus language lists for nonhuman races.


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## theoremtank (Feb 7, 2003)

niteshade6 said:
			
		

> *Well you do realize that if you spend 2 skill points you can take any language you want, not just ones on your bonus language list. That list just reflects skills you can be expected to pick up while you were growing up, not what languages you can learn later on. As a result, I think it's quite reasonable. *




I agree, except for the fact that language lists are setting specific.  Languages a paticualr race in a given campagin can expect to encount growing up varies from what that same race can expcet in another setting.

I just feel that if a concept is important enough to make a rule about then there should be one, however this rule is only restrictive and adds nothing to game mechanic balancing or rolep-playing.


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## Ranger REG (Feb 7, 2003)

Let me see...

*Automatic Languages* are those that a particular race or culture knows, like their native tongue. They are free and DO NOT count toward the number of language the character knows based on Int bonus.

*Bonus Languages* are those that a particular race or culture learned during the course of growing up, like learning the enemy's tongue or by having friendly relations with neighbors and in constant contact. They are free and DO count toward the number of languages the character learned based on Int bonus.

Beyond that, the character can add more languages by spending 1 or 2 skill points. He or she is NOT LIMITED to the languages in the list above. IOW, he or she can choose any language, of course within reason (DM's discretion, but usually because the PC is exposed to the language constantly or willing to pay for a formal lesson).

AFAIC, it is not restrictive. It does provide formats for game designers who wants to establish race's language list based on their own game world, if it differs from the default _D&D_ rules.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Feb 7, 2003)

The only problem with the automatic language is: who defines the list? Is the list sensible for most characters in most settings? If it isn`t, why bother with it as a rule - just state in the flavour text that automatic languages are languages learned during "growing up"...

Mustrum Ridcully


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## el-remmen (Feb 7, 2003)

Personally, I find the idea of bonus languages all together silly and did away with them - want extra languages?  Spend skill points. . .  

Otherwise you get Common and your racial tongue and that's it. . .


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## Ranger REG (Feb 7, 2003)

Your Campaign, Your Rules.

Still, I prefer the default use of automatic and bonus languages.


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## jester47 (Feb 7, 2003)

I think the literacy rules are inane.  Every character should start out illiterate (even in thier native language.)   Everyone can Speak a native language and common.  Thats it.  Want to read or learn more languages, thats what the intelligence bonus is for.  Here it is straightened out:

Free language:  Speak Native, Speak Common

Speak Language costs 1 skill point
Literacy in language costs 1 skill point

Int bonus gives you a language bonus = to that bonus.

So if its +2  you have 2 virtual skill points (language only) to mess with.

Negatives = 0 for this. 

But then again you don't get the wizard that knows all sorts of languages this way.  But then again everyone else does know these languages.

Still going with the old way, some points:

I think the lists should be rewritten as suggestions basedon stereotype.  An elf might take blah blah blah...

It works better if you roll your stats in order.  When you do that you don't get a party thats a walking feast for intellect devouerers.


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