# A Merc's Life [OOC 02]



## Maidhc O Casain

Our official OOC is finally in the 'Talking the Talk' thread!

Metagame discussion continues here . . .


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## Leif

Mowgli said:


> Our official OOC is finally in the 'Talking the Talk' thread!



Yayyy!  [And the people feasted upon the badgers, and the toadfrogs, and the wildebeests....] 
[This thread is in the 'Talking The Talk' FORUM, btw...]


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## Scotley

Found it! I guess they lost the 'fork thread' button in the updates they've been doing.


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## renau1g

Too many changes, making my poor head spin


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## Scott DeWar

just checkin in boss.


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## Maidhc O Casain

"You chose . . . wisely."

Experience for the encounter with the lower plane familiar (and by extension, his master) is enough to put you all to third level.

Kindly make your choices for leveling and let me know here what they are.

You may update your OP sheets yourself or I'll do it (just let me know which you desire so they won't be updated twice . . .)


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## Leif

Houwlou will go to 3rd level ranger.  Please update him for me?  He will continue to progress in the same skills.


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## Maidhc O Casain

He gets a favored terrain. I'm guessing desert? Or possibly mountains . . .


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## Leif

Desert sounds good, I guess?


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## Scotley

Whoo Hoo! Yikes, the master must be some fun huh? Glad we moved on.


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## Leif

I have an idea that we aren't totally through with his nasty butt anyway....


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## Scotley

As DeWar is so fond of saying, 'don't give the DM ideas!'


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## Leif

Oooops.


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## mleibrock

Mikey,

Work is really bad for me right now and I want to look over my options carefully.  I'll get to updating Tsadok over the weekend. 

I guess I was wrong, from the way that head was acting, I thought he was bluffing.  With XP like that, I think we made the right choice.


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## Scotley

Keeland gains a level as a Bard. He gains: 

Inspire Competence  (Su): A bard of 3rd level or higher 
can use his performance to help an ally succeed at a task. 
That ally must be within 30 feet and be able to hear the 
bard. The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as she continues to hear the bard’s performance. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the bard has attained beyond 3rd (+3 at 7th, +4 at 11th, +5 at 15th, and +6 at 19th). Certain uses of this ability are infeasible, such as  Stealth, and may be disallowed at the GM’s discretion. A bard can’t inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence relies on audible components.

He gains +1 to BAB and Fort Saves
Can cast one additional 1st level spell per day and now knows Resistance and Confusion, Lesser
Add skill ranks in Linguistics, Perception, Perform (3 different ones), Spellcraft, Knowledge (religion and geography)

Feat--Rapid Shot


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## renau1g

I'll gain access to 2nd level prayers. Do I need to wait until a good night's rest to have access to them?

BAB & Ref saves are +1
CHannel Energy is bumped up, and we gain a feat right? If so, I'm leaning towards Shield Focus


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## Maidhc O Casain

Yes, you do get a feat. Shield Focus is a nice one.

Yes, you'll need to pray and get a good night's rest before gaining access to new spells/prayers/etc. Other benefits (HP, BAB, Feats, etc.) you have access to as of now.


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## Leif

Is that another feat in addition to any Ranger Bonus Feat?   If so, Houwlou will take Combat Expertise.

[12K posts!! ]


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## renau1g

Cool, thanks Mowgli. I'll try and update the CS tomorrow. Today's going to be crazy here, I've got a client meeting in an hour or so until lunch and then a "fun" conference call with CRA to discuss an ongoing audit. Ah.... corporate tax audits... so much fun...it hurts. Shield Focus seems like it would fit a dwarven mentality so that's what I'll likely go with. 


Oh, kind of funny story. Yesterday I was hanging out with my boys and they were playing with their trains, so I was flipping through the module. Jude saw it and ran over to me, pointing to the front cover and then saying "rawr, rawr". He loves Monsters, Inc. and so I thought I'd go through the various illustrations in the book and explain them to him. He now knows about trolls, dragons (not in the module, but they look like one), and barghests (who they called "woof-woofs"). My wife came down as I was explaining the monsters to the boys and just shook her head. Then Jude proceeded to take the book from me and take it to my wife saying "Dragon....rawr,rawr" as he chased her around with it...ahh...good times... now I just need to get them rolling dice as opposed to trying to eat them. My wife insists 2 years old is too young for it still...


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## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:


> Is that another feat in addition to any Ranger Bonus Feat?   If so, Houwlou will take Combat Expertise.
> 
> [12K posts!! ]




Congrats! Yes, one of the things I like about PF is that you get a feat at every odd numbered level.


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## Scotley

I choose Rapid shot--double the fun from that spiffy bow we dug up.


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## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> As DeWar is so fond of saying, 'don't give the DM ideas!'




To lief:

What he said.

To Mowgli:
I have some real life stuff going on right now and I will try my best to be expediant about the update.


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## Maidhc O Casain

No hurry - I've been making some medical arrangements and taking care of a sick child so posting's been catch-as-catch-can.

I'll get character sheets updated as requested and be ready to move forward soon, though.


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## Scotley

Mowgli said:


> No hurry - I've been making some medical arrangements and taking care of a sick child so posting's been catch-as-catch-can.




Nothing serious I hope? 

No rush on the sheets. I expect I can play just fine without an updated sheet the changes just weren't that exotic for my character.


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## Leif

Come on, already, Mowgli!  Time to get your priorities into their proper order!


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## Scott DeWar

yeah Mowgli, get your family on the right program here! tell that sick child the just buck it up alread!!

( for the record: Just kidding, really really just kidding.)


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## Scott DeWar

The following is a propsed update of Harnrey for level 3:

level up info for level 3:
hp: =+4 1d6+3=4 

or do over for rolling a 1: +7
1d6+3=7 
Spells: summon Monster II, Bull's strength
Feat: Arcane Armor Training ( - 10% to Arcane casting failure chance )
+1 to following skills: Appraise; Craft: weaponsmith; Knowledge: arcana, Dungeoneering, geography; Perception; Spellcraft; stealth

+1 to fort save and reflex save 

The above information is not implemented to the character sheet


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## Maidhc O Casain

Updated Aodhán, Harnry and Houwlou on OP (Sorry r1g, I missed your post about updating yourself).

r1g, I didn't know what you wanted for skills or for your second level prayers, so those parts of the sheet/stat block are not updated.

I know MikeL prefers to update his sheet himself, and I didn't have info for Keeland other than his feat so I haven't touched those sheets.


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## mleibrock

*Update*

Hey guys.  Just wanted to say I'm still here but work is very busy and my fam is coming to town this weekend so I'm not entirely sure when I'll get to update Tsadok.

Mike, if you don't mind,  would you update the HPs and any BAB so that I have those benefits and I'll get to the other stuff as soon as I can?  Thanks!


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## Scotley

Mowgli said:


> and I didn't have info for Keeland other than his feat so I haven't touched those sheets.




Actually, it is on the previous page. I was first to chime in.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/275316-lof-mercs-life-ooc-02-a.html#post5158883

Let me know if you need more.


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## Maidhc O Casain

Oh, yeah - now I remember! That should do it, Scott! And I don't mind updating Tsadoks BAB/HP/etc. at all.

Probably be this afternoon/evening sometime.


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## renau1g

I'd like to go with 1 rank in heal, 1 in religiion, & 1 in Diplomacy. If you have time, if not I'll do it. Thanks Mowgli!

I'll wait until we rest to use the 2nd level spells.


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## Scotley

Hmm, I suddenly wish I'd taken some ranks in swim...


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## Leif

Speaking of swimming, it seems to me like Houwlou should have a racial ability to 'dog paddle.'


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## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Speaking of swimming, it seems to me like Houwlou should have a racial ability to 'dog paddle.'



you would like to think that!

by the by Mike, do you like the feat I chose?


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## Maidhc O Casain

Excellent choice - now we don't have to keep up with that pesky Arcane Failure chance 

I do need to know which of your new second level spells you'll prepare (after a good night's sleep, of course).


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## mleibrock

*swim*



Scotley said:


> Hmm, I suddenly wish I'd taken some ranks in swim...




Funny I picked swim (one of those feats that relates more to me personally than as a PC finally paid off - unless of course IC decides to drown me.)


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## Scott DeWar

after a good night slee[ Harnrey will get 2 lv 2 spells (bonus 1 frm INT) so he will memorize one of each


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## mleibrock

May the 4th be with you.


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## Maidhc O Casain




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## Scott DeWar

He who takes a fifth on the forth may not come forth on the fifth.


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## Scotley

mleibrock said:


> May the 4th be with you.




Ah yes, it is Star Wars day isn't it?


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> He who takes a fifth on the fourth may not come forth on the fifth.



Clever!  Leif Likes! (sorry, couldn't resist correcting your spelling)


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## Maidhc O Casain

Oops - I guess it's my turn, and y'all are waiting on me!

I'll get things moving again this evening.


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## Maidhc O Casain

That would be me . . . oops!


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## Scotley

Um, I think perhaps one of us is in the wrong thread.


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## Leif

But which one?  All of us??


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## Scott DeWar

would that make this a web of confusion and deception?


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> would that make this a web of confusion and deception?



That was actually quite clever and amusing, DeWar!!  [sblock=Reality]Somebody wrote that post for you, didn't they? [/sblock]


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## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> That was actually quite clever and amusing, DeWar!!  [sblock=Reality Somebody wrote that post for you, didn't they? [/sblock]




you would like to think that, huh?


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> you would like to think that, huh?



Who???  Little ol' me?? Why surely not!


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## Scott DeWar

i would say so, and don't call me shirley


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## Leif

Lmao!


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## Scotley

Scott DeWar said:


> i would say so, and don't call me shirley




Leslie Nielsen wrote this post for you, but it was funny!


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## Scott DeWar

what can I say, airplane flashback!


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## Leif

"*Roger*, Roger, what's our clearance, Clarence?"


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## Scott DeWar

Intros:

Over, Rodger, Rodger, over.


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## Leif

*sigh*  If only our wizard had a _knock_ spell!


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## Scott DeWar

knock is 2nd level and I have not had the time to memorize any new spells, not to mention that I am not sure I have that on his list. not to mention I dont have that spell in my book


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> knock is 2nd level and I have not had the time to memorize any new spells, not to mention that I am not sure I have that on his list. not to mention I dont have that spell in my book



Hence my sigh.  *sighhhhhh*


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## Leif

If either Keeland or Aodhán is able to open this thing, Houwlou will never be able to live it down.  But I still hope that they succeed.


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## renau1g

Not Aodhán, he just about threw his back out just now


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## Scotley

Leif said:


> If either Keeland or Aodhán is able to open this thing, Houwlou will never be able to live it down.  But I still hope that they succeed.




Just did my best. Maybe you can save a little face with an Aid Another check?


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## Leif

renau1g said:


> Not Aodhán, he just about threw his back out just now



Don't look at Houwlou for a massage!  You ain't EVEN pretty enough to be one of his bi****s!


Scotley said:


> Just did my best. Maybe you can save a little face with an Aid Another check?



Trying to do just that now, thanks.


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## renau1g

Leif said:


> Don't look at Houwlou for a massage!  You ain't EVEN pretty enough to be one of his bi****s!




Pfft.... just cuz Mowgli forgot about Comeliness doesn't mean it's not there

3d6.minroll(6)=18 <- yup an 18...that's what I thought... Aodhan's like the Brad Pitt of dwarves ... which isn't saying much. 

(I may or may not have fudged those rolls )


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## Scott DeWar

you mean the phrase ' minroll6 ' ?


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## Leif

"The Brad Pitt of Dwarves."  Hmmm, does nothing for Houwlou at all.   Now, if you want to talk about the Cindy Crawford of Dwarves, well, that just might be another matter, entirely.  I guess you probably don't want Houwlou to hump your leg, though, do you?


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## Scott DeWar

what about the piper perabou of dwarves?


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## Leif

which?  (Or should I say "witch?" The only Piper I know is the hot witch chick from that tv show, what was it called?)


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## Scott DeWar

Scott DeWar said:


> what about the piper perabou of dwarves?






Leif said:


> which?  (Or should I say "witch?" The only Piper I know is the hot witch chick from that tv show, what was it called?)




Piper  that I am thinking of is in the tnt show covert affairs.

The Piper that you are thinking of is called Charmed I think.


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> The Piper that you are thinking of is called Charmed I think.



Yes!  "Charmed."  Thank you.  I still like MY Piper better, mmm, she's a hottie!


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## mleibrock

*Piper*



Leif said:


> Yes!  "Charmed."  Thank you.  I still like MY Piper better, mmm, she's a hottie!




Agreed, Leif.  I've always been partial to piper too.  Though Alissa Milano ain't bad either.


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## Leif

mleibrock said:


> Agreed, Leif.  I've always been partial to piper too.  Though Alissa Milano ain't bad either.



Well, if the truth be known, I'd be hard pressed to refuse any of the Charmed Ones, but Piper is still my first choice.  Maybe because she's the oldest and that makes me feel like a little less of a dirty old man?  Her name is Actually Holly Marie Comb, too.


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## mleibrock

*Lerissa*



Leif said:


> Well, if the truth be known, I'd be hard pressed to refuse any of the Charmed Ones, but Piper is still my first choice.  Maybe because she's the oldest and that makes me feel like a little less of a dirty old man?




  I think we are all dirty old men!


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## Leif

And I just learned from the internet that Piper didn't start out as the oldest, either.  She started out as #2, but was somehow "promoted" later?  Maybe I misunderstood, cause that's just weird.


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## Scott DeWar

I still like Piper Peribou.


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> I still like Piper Peribou.



No accounting for taste, I guess.


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## Maidhc O Casain

If I'm not mistaken, DeWar's Piper (Perabo) was also the lead in the movie 'Coyote Ugly.'


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## Leif

Was she the 'title character'?   Maybe I need to see about checking this chick out? Ok, I saw her.  Not bad, not bad, but I still like Holly Marie Comb better.


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## Scott DeWar

not accounting for taste, I guess. LOL


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## Maidhc O Casain

*Considering a House Rule*

Springing from discussion in another game thread, I'm considering adding a house rule regarding Detect Magic. I wanted some feedback from my players before I jump in, as it does affect players in both of my current games.

It was suggested that unlimited Detect Magic takes something away from the game - specifically, the whole "wait until we've got a pile of loot and then cast one big detect magic on all of it to separate the wheat from the chaff" thing. Now, I've got no problem with this, actually. You're gonna find out anyway, and this particular 'flavor' aspect just seems to get cumbersome to me.

However, it started me thinking about the utility of Detect Magic for locating potential magic traps - spend a few rounds in any given area, locate all the sources of magic, any that look likely for traps you 'take measures' on, rinse and repeat.

WalkingDad suggested that Detect Magic could be house ruled into a 'sense,' requiring a Perception check to actually detect the magical emanations of items that were purposely hidden. So a magic sword in the middle of an armory wouldn't require a check - it's just sitting there and no effort was made to disguise it. But the caster who trapped that door with the fireball plainly didn't want it noticed before it went off, so that one would require a Perception check to notice.

Assuming the person detecting the magic spent the time to determine aura strength, I'd make the DC to find the magic traps easier the stronger the spell on the trap (harder to hide a Fireball spell than it is to hide a Magic Missile).

If I went this route I'd also remove the 'cone' area on the spell; anything one could perceive with one's other senses could also be perceived with the Detect Magic.

Anyone have any thoughts about this? Throwing up of arms in protest, or enthusiastic endorsement? Just don't care one way or the other?


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## renau1g

Seems fine to me. Otherwise magical traps are too easily found and if every low-level arcanist (and divine PC) has access to it in the world, you'd think that someone would develop a method to make things harder to find?


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## Scotley

The perception skill clearly says that you use it to find magical traps based on the DC of the trap. Nothing in Detect Magic spell description directly addresses magical traps. I'd agree that even with the spell you'd need to make the perception check. You might consider giving a +2 favorable conditions bonus to the check. An example of a favorable condition is bright light. I would think a detect magic would provide a similar benefit when looking for a hidden magical trap.


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## Scott DeWar

i am ok with the rulling of 'percption ' cheeck to find magical trap. no real thoughts on it right now.


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## mleibrock

*Hmmm*

OK, first...let me say, I never play magic users because it all really sucks so I am pretty much just throwing out my opinion but don't really care since it doesn't affect me and never will.

I am a little confused... is this because it's a "magical" trap?  Trap being the prominent word, and traps being a perception check?  If you go with your idea, it should at lest be a passive perception check.  If you are a magic user type maybe you get two checks (or chances to see the trap - a magical check and a trap check).


That said, part of the "fun" happens when our characters kick butt or are very useful.  We are "Heros" after all and this feels like an attempt to limit us.  I know you are very much by the book when it comes to things we want to do and I kinda feel if it's written to have unlimited detect magic spells then there is a reason they decided to do it that way.  I know for me nothing is more stifling than to come up with a really unique idea merely to have to squashed because it's not addressed in the rules (not that this case has anything to do with that - I guess I'm just saying it's not the players against the DM.  I sometimes get the feeling you are upset when we tear through bad guys?  I know you've said you feel someone should come close to dying in a fight or it's not a good fight.  I don't know about the others but I don't feel that way.  My favorite fights are when the party works well as a team and kicks the crap out of a bad guy and we are emerge unscratched - or nearly so.

I'm not saying I don't want challenges, as they are great character builders (figuratively and literally), but I'd like to stick with what's written in the player's guide - if we go by the book, everyone (DM and players) knows what to expect and knows how to get around certain things to bring realism into play.

As I prefaced, I don't really care either way but if we go with your change, you might shoot Pazio an e-mail about the reason you are deviating from the rules and see what they come back with?

Hope this came across they way I intended,  It's late and I'm pretty tired but I did want to weigh in.  If it sounds short, please excuse, it's not intended that way.


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## Leif

Mowgli said:


> It was suggested that unlimited Detect Magic takes something away from the game - specifically, the whole "wait until we've got a pile of loot and then cast one big detect magic on all of it to separate the wheat from the chaff" thing. Now, I've got no problem with this, actually. You're gonna find out anyway, and this particular 'flavor' aspect just seems to get cumbersome to me.
> WalkingDad suggested that Detect Magic could be house ruled into a 'sense,' requiring a Perception check to actually detect the magical emanations of items that were purposely hidden. So a magic sword in the middle of an armory wouldn't require a check - it's just sitting there and no effort was made to disguise it. But the caster who trapped that door with the fireball plainly didn't want it noticed before it went off, so that one would require a Perception check to notice.
> 
> Assuming the person detecting the magic spent the time to determine aura strength, I'd make the DC to find the magic traps easier the stronger the spell on the trap (harder to hide a Fireball spell than it is to hide a Magic Missile).



Coupla picky things: 1.  How, exactly, does a caster "take steps to conceal his magic" to require a Perception check to notice it?
2.  The only reason I can see for Fireball being easier to detect than Magic Missile is because it's a higher level spell.  There's also the whole area of effect vs targeted spell, but that gets unnecessarily complicated, IMHO.  I think an adjustment to the Perception check based on the level of the spell involved would be a very nice, logical next step to take, say, another +1 for every 2 or 3 spell levels of the spell used in the trap?


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## Scotley

Mike makes some valid points (though we'll have to agree to disagree on the idea that 'magic users because it all really sucks' business   ) and I agree we should follow the rules as written, but having reviewed the rules in the book, I for one could not find a definitive answer to the issue of magical traps. While there are some rules about aura's and such, I can't find anything about detect magic and magical traps. The only clear information on magical traps is the note that you must make a successful perception check against the DC of the trap to find them. So, a strong argument can be made for our gamemasters ruling that you need a successful perception roll to find magical traps, not just a use of the effectively unlimited 'detect magic' spell being by the rules as written. 

Regardless, of the final ruling on this, I strongly agree that often times the heroes need to be heroic and that means kicking the crap out of some bad guys and being savvy enough to avoid many traps.


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## renau1g

Scotley said:


> Regardless, of the final ruling on this, I strongly agree that often times the heroes need to be heroic and that means kicking the crap out of some bad guys and being savvy enough to avoid many traps.




Unless you're in the Tomb of Horrors... then you are to be grinded into pulp by the bad guys traps


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## Scotley

Leif said:


> Coupla picky things: 1.  How, exactly, does a caster "take steps to conceal his magic" to require a Perception check to notice it?
> 2.  The only reason I can see for Fireball being easier to detect than Magic Missile is because it's a higher level spell.  There's also the whole area of effect vs targeted spell, but that gets unnecessarily complicated, IMHO.  I think an adjustment to the Perception check based on the level of the spell involved would be a very nice, logical next step to take, say, another +1 for every 2 or 3 spell levels of the spell used in the trap?




Interesting thought. I wonder if that's already figured into the DC of the trap? The trap rules in the Pathfinder book are pretty limited. I expect there will be more information in the upcoming DM's supplement.


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## Leif

Scotley said:


> Interesting thought. I wonder if that's already figured into the DC of the trap? The trap rules in the Pathfinder book are pretty limited. I expect there will be more information in the upcoming DM's supplement.



Amazon.com is scheduled to ship my copy to me on or about July 19, 2010.  That's a pretty long while to have to wait for any traps that we face, say, now?


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## renau1g

Naw... we just won't face any traps 

I just got my 4th kingmaker volume today. Looks like fun...


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## Leif

renau1g said:


> Naw... we just won't face any traps



Sounds peachy to me, think Mowgli will go for it?


renau1g said:


> I just got my 4th kingmaker volume today. Looks like fun...



Coolnesseseses!


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## Maidhc O Casain

Scotley said:


> Interesting thought. I wonder if that's already figured into the DC of the trap? The trap rules in the Pathfinder book are pretty limited. I expect there will be more information in the upcoming DM's supplement.






Leif said:


> Amazon.com is scheduled to ship my copy to me on or about July 19, 2010.




I've got my copy but have only been able to glance through it. It's way cool, but as far as I can tell it's not primarily about adding rules or clarifying those already in existence. There's some good stuff about making sessions run more smoothly, how to handle different player styles and keep the game fun. And - the 'meaty' part - lots of convenient ways to make session and game prep easier. Tables for generating all those little things that add flavor to the game but are generally too much trouble to prepare in advance unless they're gonna be a featured aspect. But as I said, I've only had a chance to leaf through it quickly.



Leif said:


> That's a pretty long while to have to wait for any traps that we face, say, now?





renau1g said:


> Naw... we just won't face any traps




I'm afraid the cat's already out of the bag on this one - it's plain as day those statues are trapped, and I'm nowhere near mean enough to retroactively effect a house rule that limits the party.


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## Maidhc O Casain

So, I looked at the discussion - some excellent points by everyone, and thanks for you input! - and did some more reading and thinking.

I found some other info that might shine some light on the writers' intentions here:

_Detect Snares and Pits_ is a first level Druid/Ranger spell that detects 'simple' traps, and specifies that it's useless for detecting anything other than a basic snare, deadfall, potentially collapsing wall etc. It _will_ detect magical traps, but only of the types mentioned above (the _Snare_ spell was mentioned specifically).

So I'm thinking that if a _first_ level spell _intended_ to detect traps and _only_ available to two classes allows detection only of a limited sort of mundane _or_ magical traps, a _zero_ level spell that is much more general and available to every casting class probably isn't supposed to detect whatever magical traps are in the area.

So, from this point forward the ruling is this:


Rather than forcing the caster to specify each time he faces a different direction with his 'cone,' Detect Magic will be considered a '360' Sense. This is the only part of my ruling that directly goes against the RAW, but it cuts down on the most cumbersome aspect of the spell (especially in PbP) and on the opportunities for me to screw with you guys if I'm having a bad day ("You didn't specifically state you were facing North by Northwest, so the magic never showed up!")
Detect Magic will _not_ automatically detect magical traps - trap detecting is a 'specialty skill' of the Rogue class and one of their primary contributions to the party, so we're gonna let them shine in this area.
Using Detect Magic _will_ grant a +2 'favorable conditions' bonus to the caster's Perception check to detect magical traps.

This seems to me to strike the best balance between 'autodetect' and 'worthless for detecting,' and takes into account the fact that Perception checks for detecting magical traps are specified in the rules as written, while detecting them with Detect Magic is not.


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## Leif

Works for me, Oh, Wise DM, uhhhh, GM


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## mleibrock

Mike,

For clarification,  can Tsadok not discern the trapped statues with his passive talent?


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## Maidhc O Casain

Yep - if he makes his Perception roll. The Perception DC on these traps is 26. Since it was his 'Passive Detection' shtick - something Tsadok would have known without you specifying an action - I resolved it in the background.

Since his 'Take 10' Perception wasn't enough to spot them I rolled for him back on the 23rd (Perception (Trap Finding) (1d20+10=19)). That didn't do the trick either. If it had, I'd have let you know that the traps on the statues set off Tsadok's Spider Senses (and the location of the traps as well)!

If you'd posted that Tsadok was actively searching for traps before Keeland found them I'd have rolled another check for him, and let you know either that he found some (and the locations of the ones he found) or that he didn't.

Technically I should've made the roll for Keeland as well since this is one of those cases where knowing the result of the roll could influence actions. But in this case the cat was pretty well out of the bag with the whole 'Detect Magic discussion' anyway.


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## mleibrock

Wouldn't you make rolls for each trap?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Should have - that was my mistake, but I only realized it as I went through it on my last post.

We'll make it all tidy and fair : Keeland finds the trap on the Baboon Headed statue, and Tsadok's finely tuned senses alert him to traps on the two Pharoahs. Neither of you detects a trap on the figure shrouded in cloth - but it makes a certain amount of sense that one is there . . .

Trap Spotting (1d20+10=29, 1d20+10=30), Trap Spotting (Final Statue) (1d20+10=21)


----------



## mleibrock

*beating a dead horse*

OK, I'm really trying hard hear to let this go but I still want to be sure I understand for next time.

You said if I'd have specifically stated I was searching for traps, I would have a second roll opportunity.  If Tsadok's trap sense alerted him to something abnormal, he would of course, search more intently.  So does this mean he'd have another opportunity at the one the missed?  As a sidenote if we logically suppose the last statue is trapped, does that give any kind of DC bonus?

Part of the issue here is my late posting (so sorry about that).


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

You have it right - the rolls I made are for Tsadok's passive ability. Once you tell me you're searching actively - and where you're searching - I'll make another roll. Since it would make sense that the fourth statue is also trapped you would get a +2 favorable circumstance bonus to find what's there.


----------



## Scotley

Mowgli said:


> Technically I should've made the roll for Keeland as well since this is one of those cases where knowing the result of the roll could influence actions. But in this case the cat was pretty well out of the bag with the whole 'Detect Magic discussion' anyway.




I figured the same and just made a roll. So do any of us have the skill to disarm said traps now that we know where they are?


----------



## Scott DeWar

third level spell Dispell magic!

other wise maybe a counter spell?????


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Rogues - and only Rogues - can disarm magical traps. They can even 'bypass' the traps so that they and the party are not affected but the trap is still active.

DC is 25 + Spell Level used to create the trap, and the character will roll this one as it'll be obvious whether or not he succeeds (Fail by 4 or less and the trap is still active but the Rogue may try again; fail by 5 or more and the trap is sprung).


----------



## Scotley

I figured as much. Isn't Tsadok a Rogue?


----------



## mleibrock

*request*

Mikey,

I have a request.  After we've missed finding a trap, would you please post our rolls?  I know it's a passive thing so you want to roll so we don't have to worry about not allowing our characters to search more in depth, but I'd like to see the missed rolls.

I don't know about the others but I like rolling for myself but I understand why you want to do it this way.  Either way, it would be nice to have it all documented.

Thanks


----------



## Leif

Come on, now, Mike L.!  We've got to let him have his little secrets from us! It makes him feel so powerful and untouchable, you know.  Just remember that all of our characters are only alive because of the benevolence of our gracious GM.  Like the old saying goes, 'He brought us into this world, and, by God, he can take us out if he wants!'


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

mleibrock said:


> Mikey,
> 
> I have a request.  After we've missed finding a trap, would you please post our rolls?  I know it's a passive thing so you want to roll so we don't have to worry about not allowing our characters to search more in depth, but I'd like to see the missed rolls.
> 
> I don't know about the others but I like rolling for myself but I understand why you want to do it this way.  Either way, it would be nice to have it all documented.
> 
> Thanks




I was waiting for this question from you . . . 

It is all documented, and I'll be happy (in the case of traps) to post the results after the encounter is over. As long as you've sprung the trap. If you missed finding it but didn't spring it, you might spring it on the way out.

However, in this case Tsadok's passive detection didn't even kick in. This particular trap (as written in the adventure, not made by me) is triggered from 10' away by anyone who is not a worshiper of Nethys. Your detection is only good from 5' or less.

Harnry was the only one who actually specified he was looking. I gave him a roll even though he didn't specify that he was searching for traps. I even gave him the +2 for using Detect Magic and didn't give him any negative modifiers in spite of the fact that he's 35 or 40 feet away. He didn't see it.

I sort of feel like I need to correct a misunderstanding about my motives. I in no way think of this as 'GM vs. Players.' I don't jump up and down and do a victory dance when you miss a trap or get hit by a critter. And I do believe that you should - at least occasionally - kick some righteous ass. (In fact, this group's walked through almost every fight in the adventure with hardly a scratch, must less a true test of your mettle. Which is fine with me, because I know the encounters have been run the way they were supposed to be - the way they were written - and your successes have been earned rather than given away.)

I _want_ the party to succeed for two reasons: because it's no fun to fail all - or even most of - the time, and because that's the only way the game continues. But I also believe that success shouldn't be a foregone conclusion. If it is, why bother to set up the encounters or roll the dice at all? And I believe that the players (and characters) should be challenged and tested, and that their resources should be used - and even used up. Otherwise why bother to place any limits on the creation process? Why not just let them have whatever stats, abilities and equipment they want from the start? (There are games that do that, but even they present the chance of failure - see the _Wushu_ rules in my 'RPG Repository' if you're interested in reading about one such).

Does all that make sense? 

PS:  In many cases I will _not_ give you the actual result of Perception rolls, or Knowledge rolls, etc. because doing so would defeat the purpose of making those rolls myself. For example: Tsadok examines a document using his Linguistic skill. The skill check is a natural one, which is actually bad enough that not only is he not able to interpret it he makes a mistake - he _thinks_ he interpreted it correctly but he's actually drawn a faulty conclusion from it. Knowing the roll result would clue you in to that. Similarly, knowing you didn't roll high enough to find anything in a room or to locate a secret door is an indication to the player that you should check again. Your characters would have no idea whether they didn't find anything because there's nothing there or because they just didn't do a good enough job of searching. But knowing you rolled a 1 on the check means "OK, try again!"


----------



## Scotley

*Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.*

This DM thing is tough. It is always a challenge to maintain the veil of willing disbelieve and reveal the mechanics underneath. I personally don't mind if we never know the results of the rolls, but I do understand that many players do want to know.

I usually let the players roll even when it gives them unfair knowledge of the situation. In play by post especially, it seems to me to be more important to maintain a rapid flow of information rather than maintain the secret. That's why I often post a tree of results and trust to the players not to peek at the results higher than they rolled. If they choose to look and find out things their characters would not know I figure they just spoiled some of the fun for themselves. Maybe someday they'll realize it is more fun to wait and see. I don't think it hurts the game much given that one of their fellows will reveal the info soon enough anyway. 

That's my two coppers worth.


----------



## mleibrock

*Yep*



Mowgli said:


> I was waiting for this question from you . . .
> 
> It is all documented, and I'll be happy (in the case of traps) to post the results after the encounter is over. As long as you've sprung the trap. If you missed finding it but didn't spring it, you might spring it on the way out.
> 
> However, in this case Tsadok's passive detection didn't even kick in. This particular trap (as written in the adventure, not made by me) is triggered from 10' away by anyone who is not a worshiper of Nethys. Your detection is only good from 5' or less.
> 
> Harnry was the only one who actually specified he was looking. I gave him a roll even though he didn't specify that he was searching for traps. I even gave him the +2 for using Detect Magic and didn't give him any negative modifiers in spite of the fact that he's 35 or 40 feet away. He didn't see it.
> 
> I sort of feel like I need to correct a misunderstanding about my motives. I in no way think of this as 'GM vs. Players.' I don't jump up and down and do a victory dance when you miss a trap or get hit by a critter. And I do believe that you should - at least occasionally - kick some righteous ass. (In fact, this group's walked through almost every fight in the adventure with hardly a scratch, must less a true test of your mettle. Which is fine with me, because I know the encounters have been run the way they were supposed to be - the way they were written - and your successes have been earned rather than given away.)
> 
> I _want_ the party to succeed for two reasons: because it's no fun to fail all - or even most of - the time, and because that's the only way the game continues. But I also believe that success shouldn't be a foregone conclusion. If it is, why bother to set up the encounters or roll the dice at all? And I believe that the players (and characters) should be challenged and tested, and that their resources should be used - and even used up. Otherwise why bother to place any limits on the creation process? Why not just let them have whatever stats, abilities and equipment they want from the start? (There are games that do that, but even they present the chance of failure - see the _Wushu_ rules in my 'RPG Repository' if you're interested in reading about one such).
> 
> Does all that make sense?
> 
> PS:  In many cases I will _not_ give you the actual result of Perception rolls, or Knowledge rolls, etc. because doing so would defeat the purpose of making those rolls myself. For example: Tsadok examines a document using his Linguistic skill. The skill check is a natural one, which is actually bad enough that not only is he not able to interpret it he makes a mistake - he _thinks_ he interpreted it correctly but he's actually drawn a faulty conclusion from it. Knowing the roll result would clue you in to that. Similarly, knowing you didn't roll high enough to find anything in a room or to locate a secret door is an indication to the player that you should check again. Your characters would have no idea whether they didn't find anything because there's nothing there or because they just didn't do a good enough job of searching. But knowing you rolled a 1 on the check means "OK, try again!"




I understand why you run the campaign the way you do, Mike, and I don't really think you are out to get us.  It just feels like we are not in control of our character's destiny as much as in some other games.  Guess that's just something the players deal with if they want to play in your game.  All good.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I am good either was as I see the merits of both sides of this discussion. I _personally_ prefer that I don't know as it ads to the mystery of the game. that is my two platnium pieces


----------



## renau1g

Scott DeWar said:


> that is my two platnium pieces




You're moving up in the world, are you now?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Scott DeWar said:


> I am good either was as I see the merits of both sides of this discussion. I _personally_ prefer that I don't know as it ads to the mystery of the game. that is my two platnium pieces






renau1g said:


> You're moving up in the world, are you now?




I didn't have change.


----------



## renau1g

Ah I see, I just thought your thoughts were more valauble.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> I didn't have change.



lmao!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott DeWar said:


> I didn't have change.






Leif said:


> lmao!




Me too.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I forever endever to entertain!!


----------



## Scotley

Scott DeWar said:


> I am good either was as I see the merits of both sides of this discussion. I _personally_ prefer that I don't know as it ads to the mystery of the game. that is my two platnium pieces




That's why I like to keep in spoilers. Empower the player!

The 'didn't have change' line was priceless.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> The 'didn't have change' line was priceless.



Well, give him xp for it!  Any post will do, since I already gave him some on that post


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> Well, give him xp for it!  Any post will do, since I already gave him some on that post




I did it


----------



## Leif

Good. I'm glad somebody loves the old Grognard.


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> Ah I see, I just thought your thoughts were more valauble.




That would be huberus, arrogance even, on my part. Since I am the most humble man in the world I cannot delve into such thoughts. Furthermore, I am quite proud of being the most humble man in the world thank you.

And thank you every one for the XPeeezzz !!!!


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Well, give him xp for it!  Any post will do, since I already gave him some on that post




I've been remiss in spreading Exp around and cannot yet offer him any.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> I've been remiss in spreading Exp around and cannot yet offer him any.



*sigh* You're falling down on the job, man!


----------



## Scotley

I can barely find time to make my own posts much less comment on someone else's. Damn, this responsible adult gig is time consuming.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> I can barely find time to make my own posts much less comment on someone else's. Damn, this responsible adult gig is time consuming.



 ppbbbbbt!  The others might buy that cheap-a** line, but you're NOT fooling me!


----------



## mleibrock

*out of town*

I will be unable to post until Tues or wed night.  Headed to Mexico!  Yay!  If you can get by without Tsadok, please do, otherwise...Mike please take care of him.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

mleibrock said:


> I will be unable to post until Tues or wed night.  Headed to Mexico!  Yay!  If you can get by without Tsadok, please do, otherwise...Mike please take care of him.




Have a great time! Internet access has been VERY spotty at the condo, So I haven't been able to do much here - we're moving even slower than usual.


----------



## Scott DeWar

enjoy Mexico!

 Pacific or gulf side?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> enjoy Mexico!
> 
> Pacific or gulf side?



The 'Donkey Show' side. 

For Ryan:


----------



## mleibrock

*Mexico*



Scott DeWar said:


> enjoy Mexico!
> 
> Pacific or gulf side?




Absolutely beautiful here!  I'm in Riviera Maya so Gulf side.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'm jealous; we're about to start packing up for the long drive back to J'Town - our week in Destin is drawing to a close


----------



## renau1g

I'm jealous of both of you. Our big vacation this year is going to an indoor "splash village" with the boys for a weekend. Gotta save our moneys for the new little one with the wife going on Unemployment it hurts our cash flows...

Frankenmuth Hotels -- Zehnder's Splash Village


----------



## Scotley

Actually, Zehnder's sounds pretty cool too. We're off to the Big Easy on the train week after next for a short trip. Like most 6 year old boys, Flynn likes train travel, so the ride is a big part of the trip. We're not doing anything too elaborate this summer as we're saving up with an expectation of going to Disney World in the spring.


----------



## renau1g

Yeah I think we'll have fun, but this is the first year that the wife & I haven't gone somewhere for a week or so since our second year of dating (about 7 years ago).


----------



## mleibrock

*You're old*

Happy Birthday Leif!!


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> Happy Birthday Leif!!



Thanks, Mike and Ryan!  Ya whippersnappers!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Ah but the tides have turned, eh young apprintice?


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Ah but the tides have turned, eh young apprintice?



Touche, Old Timer!


----------



## Scott DeWar

I am vindicated!


----------



## Leif

Enjoy it while you can, ya GEEZER!


----------



## renau1g

Soon enough you guys can have wheelchair races  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EwZmPLrhI&feature=related]YouTube - Old People Racing[/ame]


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Soon enough you guys can have wheelchair races



And we'll take turns beating you about the head and shoulders with our canes.


----------



## Scott DeWar

and of course I will win the races!!


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> and of course I will win the races!!



In your dreams, Gramps!


----------



## Scott DeWar

I have some pretty vivid dreams!!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

AND . . . that's probably about as far as we want to go down that particular road!


----------



## renau1g

Speaking of dreams, I saw Inception last night. So good... I think even better than Dark Knight...


----------



## Leif

scott dewar said:


> i have some pretty vivid dreams!!






mowgli said:


> and . . . That's probably about as far as we want to go down that particular road!



rats!!!


----------



## Scott DeWar

so many secrets, so little time.


----------



## Scotley

I will be out of town and not posting until Friday at the earliest. Please NPC my character as needed.


----------



## mleibrock

Family vacation, Scott?  Have a great time.  Where u headed?


----------



## renau1g

I'll assume this holds true for my 4e game? Which is moving at a snail's pace...


----------



## Scotley

mleibrock said:


> Family vacation, Scott?  Have a great time.  Where u headed?




Yep, taking the whole gang on a little train ride down to New Orleans for a brief trip before school starts. Just gonna go down and relax with a little cajun music and a lot of cajun food.


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:


> I'll assume this holds true for my 4e game? Which is moving at a snail's pace...




Yes it does. I'm working my way through all the ooc threads and making a little notice.


----------



## Scott DeWar

enjoy your mini vacation!


----------



## Leif

Eat a crawdad in our honor, Scotty!


----------



## Scott DeWar

I want to hear details when you get back too! with your kids there it sould be nice and g rated.


----------



## Scotley

It was quite 'g' rated with the kids and in-laws along. But we had fun. Train rides, cajun food--no crawdads, but crab cakes, soup and claws, shrimp several ways, muffalata sandwich and bread pudding as well as pralines and french pastries, zydeco music, jazz, street cars, limos, street performers, Aquarium, IMAX, Riverwalk, Garden District, River bend, French Quarter, but only the briefest of passing glances at Bourbon street. Stayed at Harrah's, but didn't gamble. Wanted to get to the World War II museum, but didn't have enough time. A good time was had by all. Of course Amtrak managed to take one of our bags on to Chicago, but other than that it was a good trip. Now, back to my regularly scheduled posts, but perhaps a good nights sleep before I get to all my games.


----------



## Scott DeWar

awsome on all of it except the lost bag . . .  although that sounded like an adventure for the future of your family? chcagoland next?!


----------



## Scotley

Chicago is great fun too, but in this case they are sending the bag back down on the next train. Should be back in Memphis early tomorrow morning. Of course it is at least an hour round trip to the Amtrak station from my house, so that's a bit of journey.


----------



## renau1g

They couldn't even Fedex it to you? That sucks.


----------



## Scotley

I was a rather large bag and heavily laden. I suspect the cost of fedex from Chicago would be more than the train ticket to NO.


----------



## Leif

BTW, Scotley, remind me what "caro putridas es" means again?  I figure it means something is "stinky" or some such, but I've never heard light syrup described that way, so I think I must be off by a wee tad.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> BTW, Scotley, remind me what "caro putridas es" means again?  I figure it means something is "stinky" or some such, but I've never heard light syrup described that way, so I think I must be off by a wee tad.




I put that one up for Rhun. His current status is roughly 'a cliff before me, wolves behind me'. So mine translates 'you're dead meat.' Or maybe 'dead meat is you'.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> I put that one up for Rhun. His current status is roughly 'a cliff before me, wolves behind me'. So mine translates 'you're dead meat.' Or maybe 'dead meat is you'.



The 'dead meat is you' thing may be a more literal word-for-word translation, but the sense of the phrase is "You're dead meat," I believe.  I suspect that a more accurate translation of _caro putridas es_ may be something like "You're spoiled meat," or something.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

[sblock=OOC]Trying a spoiler in a different thread.[/sblock]

Spoilers aren't working for me - ignore the one in this thread (I'm trying to track down the problem).


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scotley, your stat block posted here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/5282895-post850.html isn't opening for me either . . .


----------



## renau1g

Didn't open for me either 

[sblock=ooc]
Test can you read this? [/sblock]

I'll post something in Meta


----------



## Leif

If you guys just HAVE to see inside an sblock, QUOTE the message with the sblock in question like you're making a new post.  When the screen comes up for your new post, you'll be able to see all the hidden text like always.  Then, when you're finished, just CANCEL the post and you'll be taken right back to the thread just like it was when you found it.  Easy, peasy, Greasy!

See, that's how I saw that Ryan put "Test Can you see this?" in the sblock in post #169


----------



## Scott DeWar

or just hit the back button


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:


> Didn't open for me either
> 
> [sblock=ooc]
> Test can you read this? [/sblock]
> 
> I'll post something in Meta




Nope, can't read it except by using the 'quote' trick. I'll add my voice to your meta post.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

It's the Mercs' turn over in the IC.


----------



## renau1g

Go mercs! Wow it is a good thing I had that copy cat around... he would have hit me... and he hits hard. I was waiting as Aodhan's last in the init, or I should say last before the bad guy goes. I'll post something this morning though as I'm going away this weekend.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I will be home after 630 Cent time, so I will post when I get home.


----------



## mleibrock

Leif I think we are awaiting Houwlou's action.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Just need Aodhán to wrap the round.


----------



## renau1g

Ahh....sorry about that, I've been hooked on Shining Force II Rom that I DL'd... such a fun game.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Kids now days.


----------



## renau1g

Actually the boys sat with me yesterday as I played for a few minutes as they didn't want to go to bed. Mom was out shopping and so I told them they could stay up for 10 minutes but only if they sat with me. They watched as daddy "beat the monsters" and shouted such motivational phrases as "Bad Monster" "Not Nice Monster" at the screen.... ahh....good times.


----------



## Scott DeWar

must have been super fun for you!


----------



## renau1g

I am doing what i can to bring them up as geeks like good ol' dad & mom...


----------



## Scott DeWar

geekman, to the recue!


----------



## Scotley

Hey Mike,

I have no problem with the way you are playing Tsadok's pacifism. I just figured after getting his guts handed to him by this Werecat Keeland is feeling a little testy. Seemed like a good time for a little roleplay crisis.


----------



## mleibrock

Scotley said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> I have no problem with the way you are playing Tsadok's pacifism. I just figured after getting his guts handed to him by this Werecat Keeland is feeling a little testy. Seemed like a good time for a little roleplay crisis.




Thanks Scott,  I think it's funny how in RL we would never think of killing like this but in the games it's pretty much second nature.  I know exactly where Keeland is coming from and Tsadok will bend where needed, he just needs to be pushed.  

Btw,  well said IC


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Yeah, it's kind of a 'wild west' environment. In RL even folks who've demonstrated their wickedness beyond a shadow of a doubt can't be killed out of hand; but in-game it's nothing for even a good aligned party to play judge, jury & executioner even when the baddie is already bound and helpless.

I begin to hope that we'll have a long running campaign with a 'code-against-killing' character who makes it all the way through. That would be really cool! Y'all keep up the good work!


----------



## mleibrock

The game ends?


----------



## Scotley

Yeah, even Keeland with his current wounds is only tossing out the idea not actually acting on the urge to kill this guy. He's not likely to kill a helpless prisoner.


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> The game ends?



He did seem to imply as much, didn't he, Mikey?


----------



## Scotley

Um not to spoil it for you guys, but Mike is running an adventure path with a finite number of adventures in it.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> Um not to spoil it for you guys, but Mike is running an adventure path with a finite number of adventures in it.



Oh, yeah..  Well, he _could_ get energetic and creative after that and homebrew us some adventures.  Or even start us down a different AP geared for the appropriate levels.

[or not]


----------



## renau1g

mleibrock said:


> The game ends?




Wait....you mean you've never beat D&D? Man alive, I thought you guys have been playing for years.


----------



## Leif

Sadly, we're usually on the receiving end of that beating.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

You guys should be around level 16 to 18 by the end of the AP. It's entirely possible that in the 10 or 12 years it'll take us to get there I'll be able to come up with an adventure and competently GM a game for that level. Of course, I've got to learn to competently GM a game for level 3 characters first . . .


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> ... I've got to learn to competently GM a game for level 3 characters first . . .



Don't we all??  [Scotley excepted, of course.]


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Don't we all??  [Scotley excepted, of course.]


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


>



Don't even TRY the modest act, dude!  Just revel in your glory.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*New Text Tags*

OK, on the topic of the new text tags:

 This one is fine to use or not, as you wish. Whether you use it or not, I still would like for you to put your spoken words in quotes and your thoughts in italics. 









*OOC:*


This one I don't like. The IC thread should be for IC stuff almost exclusively. Occasional OOC comments that relate to what the group is doing are appropriate, but this tag completely overshadows the other stuff in the post. If it's important enough that it needs this, just put it in the OOC thread set aside for the purpose.







        *GM:*  This one I'll use - I can see it being very handy.


----------



## renau1g

/agree


----------



## Leif

Sounds like a reasonable approach, Mowg!


----------



## Scott DeWar

looks like you are having fun eh?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*Housekeeping*

*Now that we can 'streamline' the dice roller display, let's start using it!* (Instructions for streamlining are below in case you haven't found it on your own yet - PLEASE 'streamline' the display!).

[MENTION=49929]Scott DeWar[/MENTION] This means you, too! I know how oppositional you can be ! (Also, I _still_ don't like the new 'OOC' tags - they overwhelm the IC stuff in the post. PLEASE don't use them . . . if you must make an OOC comment in the IC thread, just put it in a spoiler block or color it gray.)

(Not a rant, just trying to make sure you notice the post as you seem to have missed the earlier one )

*Instructions for 'Streamlining' the Dice Roller*

Click the 'Settings' link toward the top left.
Click the 'Edit Options' link in the left sidebar.
Scroll down to 'Thread Display Options.'
Click the 'Streamlined' radio button under 'Dice Roller Display.'

Easy Peasy!


----------



## renau1g

Ok, let's try this bad boy out...

So, I like that it's less obtrusive, but I still am not a fan of not knowing how the roll is when describing actions. i.e. if I roll a 1 on IC I know to describe an epic miss, or on a 16 I am fairly certain that's a hit, so I can add that description in. Also, IC has a history that I can easily check. I'll give it a whirl, just bringing up a few things.


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:


> Ok, let's try this bad boy out...
> 
> So, I like that it's less obtrusive, but I still am not a fan of not knowing how the roll is when describing actions. i.e. if I roll a 1 on IC I know to describe an epic miss, or on a 16 I am fairly certain that's a hit, so I can add that description in. Also, IC has a history that I can easily check. I'll give it a whirl, just bringing up a few things.




Yeah, using this die roller effectively could involve multiple edits. I expect we'll figure out the best way to do it with a little practice. In that spirit, here's a test roll.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

If we try the ENWorld roller for a while and end up not liking it, I'm not averse to changing back to IC. I do like having the rolls right here rather than having to click through to them, but it's a minor thing.

I've experimented with putting up a mostly empty post first (keeping my planned actions for the round in mind), then rolling the dice before writing the post. It's worked fairly well, but then I do almost the same thing when using IC - plan the actions, roll the dice, then describe the results.

Anyway, we can try this for a few encounters and if we decide we like IC better we can switch back.


----------



## renau1g

Sounds like a plan, definitely like not having to open up another tab.


----------



## Leif

Here goes my attempt to streamline.  I still prefer IC though, for what it's worth. (No comment is necessary, renau1g & DeWar & the rest of you a*******)

*eesh*  renau1g and DeWar in the same category.  :"> Sorry, renau1g, my bad.  REALLLLY BADDD!!


----------



## Leif

no luck, trying again
1d20+7;1d8+5 is what I'm going for

Took me four tries, but I finally got it, sorta


----------



## Scott DeWar

ok, I will give this a try, then.

wow, big difference!


----------



## Leif

Hey, Mowgli, been reading your house rules on OP.  Sounds like you've put some work into these, and they look very cool to me.  I like the way you've done firearms, too.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Thank you sir! I've been trying to keep up as I run across things that seem like they could use a little clarification.

The firearms I can't take any credit for - they're straight out of the Golarion Campaign Setting. I put 'em up on the OP site so the folks in my game who don't have the sourcebook will be able to use them if they wish. I'm with you, though . . . I like 'em!


----------



## Leif

One small erratum, though:  you left the Olcán race off of your racial hp list.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Now corrected, and I thank you!


----------



## Leif

You're most welcome.  I guess it's really not your fault, anyway, the Olcán was busily hiking his leg on the Gnome when you were looking for him the first time.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'm making a slight change to the way we do initiative. This should smooth things out a bit and make combat move a _little_ faster.

Surprise rounds work per RAW (Rules as Written). Initiative will be determined by taking the best roll of the party vs the best roll of their opponent. Actions will be taken in the order in which they are posted. This should help keep ret-conning posts to a minimum.

For Example:
_Aodhán rolls a 12, Harnry rolls a 15, Houwlou a 7, Keeland a 16 and Tsadok an 18. The Chokers roll a 9, 10 and 16. The party would go first, but if Leif posts for Houwlou before David posts for Harnry, then Houwlou's action comes before Harnry's in spite of the fact that Harnry rolled better on his initiative.

This way you can post whenever you're ready rather than waiting for your initiative turn, which should speed up posting somewhat. And anyone who's posting can just look at the actions that come before theirs and choose their own actions accordingly, rather than having to go back and revise their actions if a party member with a higher initiative count posts after them and their actions invalidate something the lower initiative count did._

This system will favor the group with the highest number of people. That's fine with me, as 1) the party typically has more numbers than their opponents and 2) it only makes a difference in the first round (after that we alternate party/enemy anyway).

This rule is reflected in the House Rules/Game Play section of my OP site.


----------



## Leif

Sounds like a plan to me.  BTW, DeWar's post reminded me that I didn't roll init. for Houwlou, so I went back and added that roll to my previous post from last night that already had H's attack and damage rolls.


----------



## Scott DeWar

So, Inititive time, eh?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

It is. You gonna roll one or just jaw about it?


----------



## renau1g

Ha! Sucka!


----------



## Leif

Hey!  Be nice to OLD Jaws, er, DeWar!


----------



## Scott DeWar

actually it is a done deal a long time ago! pffffft!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Just need actions for Harnry and Aodhán over in the IC. I know both those guys are busy in RL right now so if we've not heard from them by tomorrow (probably evening) I'll get something up for them.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I gots a break for now. will get you an action in a bit!!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Congratulations! The extra experience for bringing Haidar in alive put you just over the line for level four! (*E*ncounter *L*evel 5 for killing him, EL6 for preserving his life).

Please update your characters over on the site. Also, as you're getting high enough level to have more tools it's getting harder for me to keep up. If you wouldn't mind, post a summary of the changes in this thread for me.

I've also added his gear to the end of the Swag List on OP. I put it under a separate heading as I wasn't sure if you wanted to allow him to keep it, to take it for yourselves, or to leave it up to Almah.


----------



## renau1g

Wunderbar! More spells... now that we got time to rest that is  

Ok BAB +1, Fort and Will Saves bump up by 1, 1 additional level 2 spell, hit points (+2 Con, +1 favoured class) (1d8+3=9). 1 skill point in Know (religion), 1 in Sense Motive, 2 in Spellcraft. Only thing I'm not sure is my stat bump... if I put it in Con, that would bump up hp and Fort save, but if I go with WIS, and wait until 8th that would help out more with the spellcasting...

I'll update it soon-ish.

re: Haidar's gear, if we just take it I can foresee problems with our employer. If either Haidar or Almah offer it as part of our commission, cool, if not, well we can't use the punching dagger anyway, except maybe Tsadok?


----------



## Leif

Re: Haidar's gear -- I completely agree with renau1g, believe it or not!   Will get Houwlou leveled-up soon, I hope.


----------



## Scotley

Ah new fun stuff. Let's see, +1 Cha, +1 to BAB, +1 to Will and Reflex saves, two new second level spells--Glitterdust and Cat's Grace.

8 points of new skills a rank of swim makes sense, one each in perform sing, dance and string, one in perception, one in acrobatics, one each in knowledge nature and knowledge dungeoneering. 

The rules for hit points baffle me its d8 right? Are we rolling? Since bard is my favored class I can take +1 hp or skill point. I think hit point would be best. +2 for a 15 con as well.


----------



## mleibrock

renau1g said:


> Wunderbar! More spells... now that we got time to rest that is
> 
> Ok BAB +1, Fort and Will Saves bump up by 1, 1 additional level 2 spell, hit points (+2 Con, +1 favoured class) (1d8+3=9). 1 skill point in Know (religion), 1 in Sense Motive, 2 in Spellcraft. Only thing I'm not sure is my stat bump... if I put it in Con, that would bump up hp and Fort save, but if I go with WIS, and wait until 8th that would help out more with the spellcasting...
> 
> I'll update it soon-ish.
> 
> re: Haidar's gear, if we just take it I can foresee problems with our employer. If either Haidar or Almah offer it as part of our commission, cool, if not, well we can't use the punching dagger anyway, except maybe Tsadok?




I also agree.  Unless Almah offers the gear to us, I think we should just leave it where it is.  She has been good to us thus far and I see no need to get greedy.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Roll for HP - either here or on IC. Pathfinder ties HD to BAB. Poor BAB = d6, medium BAB = d8, good BAB = d10 (Barbarians still get d12).

Your confusion may stem from the racial bonus I gave at first level. That was a one time bonus only.


----------



## Scotley

Mowgli said:


> Roll for HP - either here or on IC. Pathfinder ties HD to BAB. Poor BAB = d6, medium BAB = d8, good BAB = d10 (Barbarians still get d12).
> 
> Your confusion may stem from the racial bonus I gave at first level. That was a one time bonus only.




Thanks, added the roll to my post above. Not too shabby.


----------



## Scott DeWar

OK, Harnrey's upgrade . . . +1 lvl (duh)
+1 BAB, +1 Wis, +8 hp (5+3 con),

+1 rank to :
Appraise, Craft (Weaponsmith), Knowledge (Arcana), (Engnrng), (Geography), 
perception, Spellcraft and Stealth



new spells in book:Acid Arrow, Continual Flame


***(Wis: 18 +4 (added +1)   Level: 04   BAB: +1 (Now +2)    
HP: 36 (18 + 3*4 (CON) + 6 Race/FC)
CMB: +3  CMD: 15

saves:
Will: +08 =    base: +4   wisdom: +4

Attack:
Battle Axe               +3      
Dagger (Thrown)          +3 (+4)
Crossbow (Launch Bolt)   +4   )***

Skill Points:  (8 Base + 4 * 4 (INT Mod/Lvl) +2 Pt GM Bonus, + 1*4 Fav Class, + 1*4 (race))
total: 34 =   (8+16+2+4+4)




wisdom bonus increase affects heal, perception, profession, sense motive and survival

skills should now read as following:


		Code:
	

Skills                   Total   Rank     CS   Ability  Misc
Acrobatics                 2                      2     
Appraise                  11       4       3      4     
Bluff                      1                      1     
Climb                      1                      1     
[b]Craft (Weaponsmith)       11       4       3      4     [/b]
Diplomacy                  1                      1     
Disable Device                                    2     
Disguise                   1                      1     
Escape Artist              2                      2     
Fly                                               2     
Handle Animal                                     1     
[b]Heal                       4                      4     [/b]
Intimidate                 1                      1     
[b]Knowledge (Arcana)        11       4       3      4     [/b]
Knowledge (Dngnrng)       10       3       3      4     
[b]Knowledge (Engnrng)       10       3       3      4     [/b]
[b]Knowledge (Geography)     11       4       3      4     [/b]
Knowledge (History)                               4     
Knowledge (Local)          8       1       3      4     
Knowledge (Nature)                                4     
Knowledge (Nobility)       8       1       3      4     
Knowledge (Planes)                                4     
Knowledge (Religion)                              4     
Linguistics                                       4     
[b]Perception                 6       2              4     [/b]
Perform                    1                      1     
Profession (Mercenary)     9       2       3      4     
Ride                       2                      2     
[b]Sense Motive               4                      4  [/b]   
Slight of Hand                                    2     
[b]Spellcraft                11       4       3      4     [/b]
[b]Stealth                    4       2              2     [/b]
[b]survival                   4                      4  [/b]   
Swim                       1                      1     
Use Magic Device                                  1


----------



## renau1g

Do we get Hero points when we level?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

You do, but the maximum you can carry is 3.


----------



## mleibrock

So if we have 0, it would go up to 3?  How many do we get each level up?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

One per level, one for IC stuff that your benevolent GM considers particularly heroic or outstanding.

So Tsadok will get one to replace the one he used in the fight with Haidar. Everyone else still has the 3 I awarded when the APG came out.


----------



## renau1g

Aodhan used one before I think. He'll be back at 3 again.


----------



## renau1g

Ok, made the changes. Went with Wis for my Ability Point


----------



## renau1g

[sblock=Stat Block]
	
	




		Code:
	

   HP: 45/45     AC: 20   AC(T): 12   AC(FF): 18
 Init: +02    ST(F):+06   ST(R):+03    ST(W):+09
  Per: +05                        HERO Points: 03

  BAB: 03       CMB: 05     CMD: 17

Weapon                  Attack    Damage      Critical     Special
Dwarven WarAxe          +6        1d10+2         20/x3     +3 Damage (2H)
Javelin                 +5        1d6 +2         20/x2     

Domain Powers:
    Travel                                Trickery
    * Agile Feet (8x/Day)                 * Copy Cat (1 Rnd/Lvl, 8x/Day)

Spells:
    Orisons (4)                           First Level (5+1)
    * Create Water                        * Bless
    * Detect Magic                        * Cause Fear
    * Light                               * Longstrider (Domain Spell)
    * Mending                             * Lonrach's Favor
                                          * Protection from Evil (x2)

    Second Level (4+1)
    * Weapon of Awe
    * Bull'S Strength
    * Shatter
    * Invisibility (Domain Spell)

[/sblock]


----------



## mleibrock

Tsadok's upgrade . . .

Str: 18 +4 (added +1)   Level: 04  
HP: was 26, now a 34 rolled a 6 on a d8 (plus the 2 con bonus)
CMB: +7  CMD: 20

saves:
reflex save increased by 1 to +7

Damage increased by +1 due to strength increasing.


increased several skills, can't remember which ones now that I've already changed everything.

Took (Enforcer and Improved Grapple) as his new feats.

Pretty straight forward level up, but I am stoked to try out the new enforcer feat, I think it will really help the party during combat.

Everything has been updated over on the OP site


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

How'd he get two feats? Should just be the one for his Rogue Talent I think.


----------



## mleibrock

Just filling in the Portfolio you gave me in Hero lab.  Take a look at the file I sent you and see if it's good to you.  I also need to find a  way to put in Veiled Vileness under the Racial abilities (it's not in the drop down menu and as a result, my will save is not right).

Just realized... maybe viled veilness is the feat I am missing?  If that is the case, I'm gonna drop improved grapple in lieu of enforcer.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Just sent you an e-mail that the portfolio you sent is missing the Veiled Vileness feat - you ninja'd me!

I put your upgrades into my version and sent it back to you. Let me know if the Wisdom racial bonus and the Veiled Vileness feat come through?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I haven't forgotten about you . . . working up the intro to the next session.


----------



## renau1g

Cool. Just a note about the upcoming holidays. I'll be out of the office from 12/22 or 12/23 until 1/4 or so. Expect posting to be at a crawl during this time. Can't wait to spend time with the family. The twins are so excited for Christmas this year and they now understand presents & Santa (although they're a bit scared of him). We also have our advent prayer time each night and they've finally agreed that it is also Jesus' birthday as well. They now want to bring presents to him... we have a church about a block from our house, that they call Jesus' house, so they've decided they want to bring him a gift.


----------



## Scotley

Fun Times! My 6 year-old is quite excited about Christmas this year too. I expect to have a little craziness the rest of the week what with going to rescue my daughter from the snow and ice and bring her home from college (an eight hour round trip when the weather is good) for the holidays tomorrow and then office Christmas party off-site the next day and finding some spare time to finish up my shopping. I'm taking a couple of days off the week after Christmas and sending all the kids away so my wife and I can just relax. Of course her definition of relaxing will no doubt include packing up all the X-Mas stuff and toting it up to the attic, cleaning house and engaging in various honey-do's. I don't expect to post much for those days.


----------



## Scott DeWar

changes are all done finally.



Scott DeWar said:


> OK, Harnrey's upgrade . . . +1 lvl (duh)
> +1 BAB, +1 Wis, +8 hp (5+3 con),
> 
> +1 rank to :
> Appraise, Craft (Weaponsmith), Knowledge (Arcana), (Engnrng), (Geography),
> perception, Spellcraft and Stealth
> 
> 
> 
> new spells in book:Acid Arrow, Continual Flame
> 
> 
> ***(Wis: 18 +4 (added +1)   Level: 04   BAB: +1 (Now +2)
> HP: 36 (18 + 3*4 (CON) + 6 Race/FC)
> CMB: +3  CMD: 15
> 
> saves:
> Will: +08 =    base: +4   wisdom: +4
> 
> Attack:
> Battle Axe               +3
> Dagger (Thrown)          +3 (+4)
> Crossbow (Launch Bolt)   +4   )***
> 
> Skill Points:  (8 Base + 4 * 4 (INT Mod/Lvl) +2 Pt GM Bonus, + 1*4 Fav Class, + 1*4 (race))
> total: 34 =   (8+16+2+4+4)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wisdom bonus increase affects heal, perception, profession, sense motive and survival
> 
> skills should now read as following:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Skills                   Total   Rank     CS   Ability  Misc
> Acrobatics                 2                      2
> Appraise                  11       4       3      4
> Bluff                      1                      1
> Climb                      1                      1
> [b]Craft (Weaponsmith)       11       4       3      4     [/b]
> Diplomacy                  1                      1
> Disable Device                                    2
> Disguise                   1                      1
> Escape Artist              2                      2
> Fly                                               2
> Handle Animal                                     1
> [b]Heal                       4                      4     [/b]
> Intimidate                 1                      1
> [b]Knowledge (Arcana)        11       4       3      4     [/b]
> Knowledge (Dngnrng)       10       3       3      4
> [b]Knowledge (Engnrng)       10       3       3      4     [/b]
> [b]Knowledge (Geography)     11       4       3      4     [/b]
> Knowledge (History)                               4
> Knowledge (Local)          8       1       3      4
> Knowledge (Nature)                                4
> Knowledge (Nobility)       8       1       3      4
> Knowledge (Planes)                                4
> Knowledge (Religion)                              4
> Linguistics                                       4
> [b]Perception                 6       2              4     [/b]
> Perform                    1                      1
> Profession (Mercenary)     9       2       3      4
> Ride                       2                      2
> [b]Sense Motive               4                      4  [/b]
> Slight of Hand                                    2
> [b]Spellcraft                11       4       3      4     [/b]
> [b]Stealth                    4       2              2     [/b]
> [b]survival                   4                      4  [/b]
> Swim                       1                      1
> Use Magic Device                                  1


----------



## Leif

Leveling Houwlou now

Eeeek!  He got boned on the new hp roll! Houwlou's hp for 4th level, hd+con+fc (1d10+2+1=4)
c'est la vie!!

*Note that I didn't add anything to H's Hero points, so if we're supposed to get one, H still has one coming.

[sblock=Houwlou's sheet] 
 Name: Houwlou Groulenas     Age: 20
 Class: Ranger             Height: 6'
  Race: Olcán              Weight: 190 lbs
  Size: Medium                Fur: Black/Brown
Gender: Male                 Eyes: One Brown, One Gray
 Align: Chaotic Good
 Deity: Panthiest     HERO Points: 03

Str: 16 +3            Level: 04             XP: 3300
Dex: 13 +1              BAB: +4             HP: 40 (19 + CON + 10 Race/FC) 
Con: 15 +2              CMB: +7            CMD: 18
Int: 16 +3            Speed: 30'       Dmg Red: 0/anything
Wis: 18 +4             Init: +1      Spell Res: None 
Cha: 15 +2              ACP: -2     Spell Save: 14+SL


    AC:     Total  Base  Armor  Shld   Dex  Size   Def   Nat  Misc
              17    10    +4     +2    +1    +0    +0    +0   

                  Touch AC: 11              Flatfooted AC: 16


                Total  Base   Mod  Misc   Special
Fort:            06     4     +2          
Ref:             05     4     +1          
Will:            05     1     +4     


Weapon                  Attack    Damage      Critical     Special
Longsword (MW)          +6        1d8+3       19-20/x2     +1 TH Gnolls
  Dagger +1             +5        1d4+2       19-20/x2     +3 TH/Damage
Longsword (MW)          +4        1d8+3       19-20/x2        (Undead)
  Longsword             +3        1d8+1       19-20/x2     
Javelin                 +4        1d6+3          20/x2     


Languages: Common, Olcán


Olcán Traits:
    * +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 DEX
    * Wolf-Lope: Move +10' when on all fours (Light/No Armor)
    * Wolf Sight: Low Light Vision
    * Keen Senses: +2 Perception Checks (Smell/Sound)
    * Hardy: Bonus Feat (Endurance)
    * Wilderness Expert (+2 Survival, additional +2 Tracking)
    * Hatred: +1 TH vs. Gnolls
    * Read Body Language: +2 Sense Motive Checks

Background Trait:
    * Devotee of the Green: +1 KS (Geography/Nature). KS (Geography) is CS

Ranger Abilities:
    * Proficiencies: Simple and Martial Weapons; Light Armor & Shields
       (Not Tower Shields)
    * Fighting Style (Two Weapon Fighter)
       Two Weapon Fighting Feat
    * Favored Enemy: Undead (+2 Bluff, Perception, Sense Motive, Survival,
        To Hit/Damage)
    * Tracking (+½ Lvl (Min 1)) to Survival: Tracking checks
    * Wild Empathy
    * Favored Terrain: Desert (+2 Initiative, KS: Geography, Perception, Stealth, Survival)
    * Hunter's Bond: Companions (grant half favored enemy bonus (+1) to companions)
    * Spells: Beginning at 4th level, Houwlou can cast bonus druid spells for his 17 wisdom-3/day
              (spells customarily prepared @L4:  Det. Magic, Det. Magic, Flare, Light) 

Feats:
    * Endurance: +4 CON Check vs. Non-Lethal Damage; Sleep in Light/Medium Armor
       (Racial Bonus)
    * Weapon Focus (Longsword): +1 TH
    * Two Weapon Fighting (Ranger Fighting Style)
    * Combat Expertise


Skill Points: 27 (6 + INT Mod/Lvl)

Skills                Total   Rank     CS   Ability  Misc
Acrobatics             -5                      1     -6
Appraise                4       2              3     
Bluff                   4       1              2     +2*
Climb                   2       2       3      3     -6
Craft                   3                      3     
Diplomacy               3                      3     
Disable Device                                 1     
Disguise                3                      3     
Escape Artist          -5                      1     -6
Fly                                            1     
Handle Animal           9       3       3      3     
Heal                    8       1       3      4     
Intimidate              3                      3     
Knowledge (Arcana)                             3     
Knowledge (Dngnrng)                            3     
Knowledge (Engnrng)                            3     
Knowledge (Geography)                          3     
Knowledge (History)                            3     
Knowledge (Local)                              3     
Knowledge (Nature)      9       3       3      3     
Knowledge (Nobility)                           3     
Knowledge (Planes)                             3     
Knowledge (Religion)                           3     
Linguistics                                    3     
Perception             12       5       3      4     +2*,+2*
Perform                 3                      3     
Profession (Guide)     10       3       3      4     
Ride                    3       2              1     
Sense Motive            7       1              4     +2, +2*
Slight of Hand                                 1     
Spellcraft             11       5       3      3     
Stealth                 2       5       3      1     -6
Survival               10       3       3      4     +½Lvl*,+2*
Swim                   -9                      3     -12
Use Magic Device                               3     

     * Situational Bonus not included in Total


Money
PP: 00     GP: 16+26+796     SP: 05     CP: 06

Equipment                      Cost    Weight
Explorer's Outfit                         
Chain Shirt                    100 gp   25 lb
Heavy Wooden Shield              7 gp   10 lb
Longsword (MW)                           4 lb
Javelins (2)                     2 gp    4 lb
Dagger, +1
Daggers (2)                      4 gp    2 lb
Belt Pouch                       1 gp    ½ lb
Puddin' (Mule)                   8 gp
  Pack Saddle                    5 gp   15 lb
  Javelins (6)                   6 gp   12 lb
  Small Traps & Snares
  Tent                          10 gp   10 lb
  Bedroll                        1 sp    5 lb
  Winter Blanket (5)            2½ gp   15 lb
  Rope (Hemp, 50')               1 gp   10 lb
  Backpack                       2 gp    2 lb

                        Total Weight:  45½ lb

            Light  Medium   Heavy
Max Weight: 0-76   77-153   154-230
[/sblock]


----------



## Scott DeWar

I now have the op Harnrey updated, I hope


----------



## renau1g

It's bad when the cleric has 12.5% more hp than the melee warrior-type


----------



## Scott DeWar

I see that the rogue and wizard are with-in 2 hp of eah other.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> It's bad when the cleric has 12.5% more hp than the melee warrior-type



Like I said, Houwlou got _boned_ on the roll.  He has no problem whatsoever cowering behind Aodhan!!


----------



## renau1g

I think he's gotten boned on at least the last two hp rolls...


----------



## Leif

Actually, it was his 2nd level roll that was the other bad one, if memory serves.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Sounds right. you complined that the wizard had more HP then the ranger


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I thought maybe you were looking at the area map rather than the map of Kelmarane, so I put it on top. Here's the link for quick reference:

Kelmarane



mleibrock said:


> OOC - I want to be clear to be sure I have this right:
> 
> Orientation:
> If you start following the road at the bridge it makes its way past several buildings on the right. These buildings back up against the hill. The southernmost of these buildings is the one to which the meat is being delivered thrice daily.
> 
> I'm not clear which row of building you are speaking of.  Are you talking to the E or W of the river and headed which direction on the trail?




There's only one bridge on the map. The trail goes SW leaving the bridge and winds around the hill. To the left of that trail (S/SE) are a bunch of ruins and a couple of building that are mostly intact. To the right (N/NW), almost all of the buildings are intact (there are six of them). The building to which the meat is being delivered is the last one in that line, with the western wall crumbled. This building is now indicated with 'Meat goes here' on the map.




mleibrock said:


> The mill to which the goat is being delivered every other day is the building just east of the bridge.
> 
> Same here.  Unsure which building you are speaking of.  Can you color code the building you are speaking of.




Again, there's only one bridge on the map, it's on the east side. There's only one building to the east of the bridge on the map. This building is now indicated with 'Goats go here.'


----------



## mleibrock

Thanks Mikey.  I got it now.  Headed to work so I wont be able to post until later tonight.  Have a great day.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

[MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION]: Just a few things to tidy up now:

Looks like you forgot to bump one of your ability scores (4th Level!)
Unfortunately, Rangers don't get 0 level spells -  at this level Houwlou can cast 1 first level spell. Also, Light isn't on the Ranger spell list.  (Don't forget to check the APG - there are some very cool Ranger spells in there as well).
In PF you can never have more ranks in a skill than your HD; you've got a few listed at 5 ranks, so I need you to redistribute those to other skills.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

mleibrock said:


> Thanks Mikey.  I got it now.  Headed to work so I wont be able to post until later tonight.  Have a great day.




NP! And no worries on the posting - I've got a TON of catching up to do from the last couple of days.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

For ease of record keeping and finding old threads later in the game, and to suit my own odd sense of organization, I've changed the name of the IC thread to 'A Merc's Life: Howl of the Carrion King.'

This is the name of the first installment of the Legacy of Fire adventure path. Once we start into the second installment we'll move to a new IC Thread titled 'A Merc's Life: House of the Beast.'

The OOC threads will be named 'A Merc's Life [OOC ##]'

Sorry if there's any confusion from this . . .


----------



## Scott DeWar

none here


----------



## Scott DeWar

> There's only one bridge on the map. The trail goes SW leaving the bridge and winds around the hill.



as this trail winds around the hill, is there a good place to recon from up there? or a probable place where a lookout would be looking for the likes of us?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

[MENTION=11520]Scotley[/MENTION]: I have Keeland's gear at 51 lbs, giving him Medium encumbrance - you might want to put a couple of torches on Puddin' to drop him back to Light.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott DeWar said:


> as this trail winds around the hill, is there a good place to recon from up there? or a probable place where a lookout would be looking for the likes of us?




There are plenty of places to hide among the ruined buildings - both for you as you infiltrate and for the inhabitants as they watch.


----------



## Scott DeWar

but i don't want them to watch!

Also I saw you had 'altered' harnrey earlier to day, What did i do wrong? (this was on the OP)


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> [MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION]: Just a few things to tidy up now:
> 
> Looks like you forgot to bump one of your ability scores (4th Level!)
> Unfortunately, Rangers don't get 0 level spells -  at this level Houwlou can cast 1 first level spell. Also, Light isn't on the Ranger spell list.  (Don't forget to check the APG - there are some very cool Ranger spells in there as well).
> In PF you can never have more ranks in a skill than your HD; you've got a few listed at 5 ranks, so I need you to redistribute those to other skills.



Ok, thanks.  I'll try to get these straightened out asap, maybe tonight?  So Houwlou can cast his OWN Cure Light now?  That is sooooo cool!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott DeWar said:


> Also I saw you had 'altered' harnrey earlier to day, What did i do wrong? (this was on the OP)




Nothing wrong, I was just lining up some of the columns and cleaning up the spelling a little.


----------



## Scott DeWar

'K.

[MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION]: yeah, Houlou needs to be able to cure himself, as he is so low on HP!


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> [MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION]: Just a few things to tidy up now:
> 
> Looks like you forgot to bump one of your ability scores (4th Level!)
> Unfortunately, Rangers don't get 0 level spells -  at this level Houwlou can cast 1 first level spell. Also, Light isn't on the Ranger spell list.  (Don't forget to check the APG - there are some very cool Ranger spells in there as well).
> In PF you can never have more ranks in a skill than your HD; you've got a few listed at 5 ranks, so I need you to redistribute those to other skills.






Scott DeWar said:


> 'K.
> 
> Leif: yeah, Houlou needs to be able to cure himself, as he is so low on HP!



Bite me, DeWar!   It's not my fault!!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Ewwwwwww!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:


> Actually, it was his 2nd level roll that was the other bad one, if memory serves.




This is Houwlou's first really bad HP roll. Second level was a 4 and third level was a 5, so (until now) he was just a little behind the curve. On the other hand, with the racial bonus your beneficent GM gave out, he's still averaging 10 HP/Level, so he's prob'ly gonna be OK .

Harnry rolled a 1 last level, and Tsadok got 2's at second and third level both.


----------



## Scotley

Mowgli said:


> [MENTION=11520]Scotley[/MENTION]: I have Keeland's gear at 51 lbs, giving him Medium encumbrance - you might want to put a couple of torches on Puddin' to drop him back to Light.




Good plan, especially since he's been using light cantrips instead of torches anyway.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

You wanna hang on to one, or should I move them all three to the mule?


----------



## Scotley

Taking the optimistic view that I'll need all the room I can get for treasure. I'll put all the torches on the mule.


----------



## Leif

That's it!  Load 'er up!  Punkin' can take it!


----------



## renau1g

Leif said:


> Ok, thanks.  I'll try to get these straightened out asap, maybe tonight?  So Houwlou can cast his OWN Cure Light now?  That is sooooo cool!




Damn .... I liked having that over him


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Damn .... I liked having that over him



Don't worry, you still do.  He can't cast as many CLWs as he is likely to need on a given day.


----------



## Scott DeWar

thunder storms right now!!! ach!


----------



## mleibrock

Have we abandoned this game?  Just kidding but I feel we could at least post once every day or two?   You know it's slow if *I'm* saying I'd like to post more.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

How you guys go about clearing Kelmarane is up to you . . .  Just waiting for you guys to tell me what you're doing.


----------



## mleibrock

Mike,

Scott and I had some questions of the NPC.  Were we able to ask these or did he just say his bit and take off?

Oops.  For some reason I thought Scotley also posed a question but it seems Tsadok was the only one.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Sorry - completely missed that one!

He excused himself just after giving you the skinny, but had he stuck around to answer you questions he'd have told you that one Gnoll looks just like another to him - especially from this distance - and that it's possible the meat is cut up goat; the difference being that in one case the meat is already butchered and in the other it's a live goat being led in.


----------



## mleibrock

. Ok... I get it... Nothing more to learn from him.


----------



## Scott DeWar

consider this a time that Harnrey has been drawing a map of known inforation from the mercs and from the guard.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> consider this a time that Harnrey has been drawing a map of known inforation from the mercs and from the guard.



And Houwlou has been criticizing the map and correcting it where necessary!


----------



## renau1g

Aodhan's been meditating, thinking about his family...

sorry for the delays, been having too much fun away from the computer (and playing a bit of Civ 5...)


----------



## Scott DeWar

re: Houwlou
putting your dirty filthy paws on MY map?!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Question:
according to the map, it looked like we were near a short length ridge that was to our north (dark area from north of the bee's head to the north west for a few feet then directly north tapering down as it arrives to the southern tip of the ruins.)

Would that be correct?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

That would be correct. Basically, Kelmarane is built on a hill. You're at the lowest point, the Battle Market is the highest.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I will be asking a lot about the map here, just to let you know. 

*to our north is a building with a small dome. It is about 240-265 feet away from the Bee. What can Harnrey make of its details. (15 feet/ square)
*I see paths on the map as well, are those the pathes of the patrols?

vvVV Here is a perceprtion for you if you need it. damn, its a 1. VV vv


----------



## Leif

Did I forget to tell you guys how much I HATE Perytons??  I mean, what do you do if one of those big, honking things flies over and craps on you??


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

[MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION] Did you ever decide whether or not you were going to channel?


----------



## renau1g

Sorry all, the twins were sick all last week, now it spread to the baby and wife, plus I've been working around 50-55 hrs the last few weeks ensuring all my client's tax whom have July 31, 2010 year ends are filed by Monday (which my largest client's all have that year end). Good news is that I got them all done, signed, and filed yesterday, so things should be quicker going forward.

Sadly the wait was certainly not worth it with Aodhán's spectacular roll


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

NP Ryan - just making sure you hadn't forgotten about us!


----------



## Scott DeWar

and sorry to hear your fam is sick.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

That too!


----------



## renau1g

Thanks guys. Luckily everyone's pretty good even through the illnesses, even the baby, she just needs lots of time being held.

I felt my throat super congested this morning, but some NeoCitrin has me donig better. Just need to cross my fingers...don't want to catch it myself


----------



## Scott DeWar

Oh so terrible: "forced" to hold your baby. I see where you are going with this. Bonding with the daddy while mommy is not well. Uh huh.

OR FOR THE TIME I FORGOT ALL THOSE CAPS, JUST FOR YOU .. .. .. ..

OH SO TERRIBLE: "FORCED" TO HOLD YOUR BABY. I SEE WHERE YOU ARE GOING WITH THIS. BONDING WITH DADDY WHILE MOMMY IS NOT WELL. UH HUH.


----------



## mleibrock

*fighting defensively*

OOC - Thanks Leif!  I did a little more searching this morning and found the section you refereed.  However it seems, total defense is a standard move action and does not provoke an AoO so I'm wondering where you saw I could not combine a 5' move.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I would think you should be able to get a 5 ft move. Hmmmm.

Byt eh way, i wam wearing my bi-focals and I could have sworn the title said fishing defensively.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

The main reason I can think of that you would _want_ to be able to take a 5' step then a move (but wouldn't be able to) would be to back up w/out drawing an AoO then run away.


----------



## mleibrock

Mowgli said:


> The main reason I can think of that you would _want_ to be able to take a 5' step then a move (but wouldn't be able to) would be to back up w/out drawing an AoO then run away.




Understood.  I'll keep it in mind.  I've thought about having him run away as we shouldn't have been in here to begin with but with the doors off, He wouldn't want to allow this thing free on the city folk.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Tactical withdrawl works better. full round action, let me look and find it.

And yes, the old man is still wearing the bifocals. (Mleibrock, thanks for the xp!)

found it. From the pfrpg ogl srd:
[sblock=withdrawal action]
Withdraw
Withdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action.
When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed.
The square you start out in is not considered threatened by
any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do
not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move
from that square. Invisible enemies still get attacks of
opportunity against you, and you can't withdraw from
combat if you're blinded. You can't take a 5-foot step during
the same round in which you withdraw.
If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a
threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies
get attacks of opportunity as normal.
You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which
you don't have a listed speed.
Note that despite the name of this action, you don't actually
have to leave combat entirely.

[/sblock]


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> OOC - Thanks Leif!  I did a little more searching this morning and found the section you refereed.  However it seems, total defense is a standard move action and does not provoke an AoO so I'm wondering where you saw I could not combine a 5' move.



Ok, sorry then, I thought Total Defense was a full round action instead of a move action.  My bad!


----------



## Leif

The PRD does, in fact, specifically say that fighting defensively is a full round action, BUT, it can also be done as a standard action giving a different TYPE of bonus to AC.  But it just looks like the full-round action makes the bonus to AC a Dodge bonus but the standard action gives an untyped bonus to AC, which is probably better, anyway.  Very weird discrepancy here, it seems to me... I don't understand this difference at all.

To quote the PRD,

"Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 to AC for the same round.

Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action: You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round."

Pease go to the PRD and search for "fighting defensively" and explain this difference to me, someone?


----------



## mleibrock

Leif said:


> The PRD does, in fact, specifically say that fighting defensively is a full round action, BUT, it can also be done as a standard action giving a different TYPE of bonus to AC.  But it just looks like the full-round action makes the bonus to AC a Dodge bonus but the standard action gives an untyped bonus to AC, which is probably better, anyway.  Very weird discrepancy here, it seems to me... I don't understand this difference at all.
> 
> To quote the PRD,
> 
> "Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 to AC for the same round.
> 
> Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action: You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round."
> 
> Pease go to the PRD and search for "fighting defensively" and explain this difference to me, someone?




Leaf,

I agree, doesn't make any sense to me either.  I also see a Total Defense:

"You can defend yourself as a standard action,  You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round.  Your AC improves at the start of this action.  You can't combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat.  You can't make attacks of Opportunity while using total defense."

All this seems very confusing.  Mike,  could you clarify how you'd like to deal with these and post to your house rules for future reference?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

The difference is the number of actions you're using, maybe? If you're doing it as a standard action you're only taking one attack, leaving yourself free to take other actions as well (move, swift, 5' step). The bonus is untyped.

Using it as a full-round action means you're using all of your attacks so you can't take the other actions. So the bonus is specified as Dodge.

Just a guess - I'm no rules guru. However, I have to say that since Dodge bonuses stack anyway they might as well have just said 'you can combine either a standard action or a full-attack with fighting defensively.'


----------



## Leif

The difference there is that with Total Defense, you get a +4 bonus to AC, but you can't attack, while with Fighting Defensively you only get +2 to AC but can still attack.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Right, but your previous post wasn't about Full Defense. It was about Fighting Defensively either as a full-round or as a standard action.

Total Defense is a horse of a different color, and can't be combined with Fighting Defensively.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> Right, but your previous post wasn't about Full Defense. It was about Fighting Defensively either as a full-round or as a standard action.
> 
> Total Defense is a horse of a different color, and can't be combined with Fighting Defensively.



Yes, you are, of course, totally correct, Noble GM!  mleibrock brought up Full defense, though, so I just wanted to address his point.


----------



## Scott DeWar

ok, guys. i am in the pdf-srd and this is what i found. 
1)
Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can
choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you
take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 to AC
for the same round.

2)Total Defense
You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4
dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at
the start of this action*. You can't combine total defense with
fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat
Expertise feat. You can't make attacks of opportunity while
using total defense.*

So they are both Standard actions that do not draw AOO. one ids a +4 and can attack back with -4 att, the other is deffense only.

the underlined portions is the other differences.
Neitherr is a full round action. I guess that it is that way so you can still use it while you are at 0 hp or something like that.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> ok, guys. i am in the pdf-srd and this is what i found:



"Portable Document Format System Reference Document?  huh?


----------



## Scott DeWar

I have core rules on pdf (waterrmarked) that I got from the thPiazo sight for free. I usually look at that when thigs are confusing on the d20 prd.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Wow, that felt like a thread killer.

On an aside:

I was wondering how the Rules are to be on a couple of things.
1) if a feat does not say you can stack, but does not say you cannot stack, can you stack?
Augment Summoning:
Benefit: Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.

2) Crafting: how much per day?
if you have a potion or scroll that costs more then 1000 gp, the it takes more then one day (1 day per 1000 to be exact).
But, what about if it costs less then 1000, such as a second level spell as a potion: 300 base cost. Can you brew 3 of these in one day? (provided you have the coin to do it of course)


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'm not sure what you're trying to stack here so I can't be certain, but I _think_ the answer is no. The bonus granted by the feat is an enhancement bonus, which does not stack with other enhancement bonuses.
TBH, I _hate_ the crafting rules for making magic items - I think they are far too easily exploited to  _completely_ throw off the party balance by throwing the expected wealth by character level all out of whack. So I'm going to be very conservative in what I allow in this regard and will need meticulous die rolling and record keeping for crafting items. In regards to this particular question, you can likely guess - 1 day for every 1000 gp or fraction thereof.

(One difficulty with using Crafting in PbP is the very nebulous keeping of time outside of combat).


----------



## Scott DeWar

A thought for the crafting idea is to make it cost the same wheather you bought it or made it.

As for the time thing, I wanted to ensure a clean slate and clear rule before I ever get a chance to do this.

Dice rolling for potions and scrolls not necessary, but some thing like a MWK weapon is understood.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'd thought about that solution for the crafting, but was still pondering whether I wanted to impose that rule after the fact - I didn't know if you'd built your character with the idea of making a bunch of stuff.

However, if you're amenable to it I'll say that crafting costs the same as buying - that neatly gets around the problem of PCs gathering up twice as much magical gear as would normally be allowed.

The checks will ensure that you can't just automatically make items you're unable to find in the shops.


----------



## Scott DeWar

As far as I know I have made nothing. The battle ax I have was bought from our coustomer. After the pugwumpi destroyed my family Heirloom!


----------



## mleibrock

Mowgli said:


> I'd thought about that solution for the crafting, but was still pondering whether I wanted to impose that rule after the fact - I didn't know if you'd built your character with the idea of making a bunch of stuff.
> 
> However, if you're amenable to it I'll say that crafting costs the same as buying - that neatly gets around the problem of PCs gathering up twice as much magical gear as would normally be allowed.
> 
> The checks will ensure that you can't just automatically make items you're unable to find in the shops.




Not that I'll probably ever play a magical type but it seems to me that the time required to create the item needs to be offset by cost, otherwise, why would you pay full book price and have to invest the time to create the item (save creating exactly what you want)?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Just to make sure I understand you ML, You are saying that before it was cost of 1000 to magic a sword, base value 2000 and takes two days to do it, now we are looking at 2000 to craft/create/magic the sword and still at two days.

You may be suggesting that maybe reduce the time to 1/2 to offsset the now full cost of what use to be 1/2 cost. 

Right?


----------



## mleibrock

*crafting items*

It's Mike's game so it is certainly his and the magical player's decision but I personally think it needs to be less expensive to compensate the player's time.  

However, I do agree with Mike in that meticulous time records should be kept to keep things honest.  It would be very difficult to create these items in the field and I think that might be a big equalizer.


----------



## renau1g

As a DM of 4e I can't tell you how happy I am that they got rid of crafting discounts. Now you can craft items, but the cost is the same as "buying" them....


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

You can't really craft items 'in the field' - meaning during an active dungeon delve, etc. So using this game as an example, even if you took time off from the siege of Kelmarane it's unlikely that Almah would have the raw materials needed to make anything of real value.

In PbP the time between adventures is typically hand-waved, so the time factor becomes pretty much moot. It's just as easy to say 'two weeks pass' as it is to say 'two days pass.'


----------



## mleibrock

Mowgli said:


> You can't really craft items 'in the field' - meaning during an active dungeon delve, etc. So using this game as an example, even if you took time off from the siege of Kelmarane it's unlikely that Almah would have the raw materials needed to make anything of real value.
> 
> In PbP the time between adventures is typically hand-waved, so the time factor becomes pretty much moot. It's just as easy to say 'two weeks pass' as it is to say 'two days pass.'




I agree with these points, Mike.  Maybe you could require those wanting to create items to state that before the extended breaks?  And in those cases give some financial discount.  The other party members would be able to "work" or rest and it really seems that those characters ambitious enough to make their own items should be able to do so at some sort of a discount.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

That brings us back to the 'character wealth by level' thing.

Encounters are assigned their challenge ratings - estimates of how well a party of a given level and size will fare against a particular encounter. But one of the assumptions that's made is that parties will have only a certain amount of 'wealth' in the form of equipment (magic items, in particular).

This is where the crafting rules are broken. Allowing players to craft their own items - to any great extent, anyway - at a discount meant that those characters have more than the assumed magic items for their level (roughly twice as much if the crafter is really ambitious).

There's a good reason 'official' games like Pathfinder Society dis-allow the crafting rules entirely: you can't keep the game balanced.

Making the crafting cost equal to the buying cost doesn't make sense from a 'realism' perspective, but it does from a game balance perspective. The compensation here, rather than the monetary discount, will be the fact that the crafter will be able to make whatever item he wants and can afford rather than having to settle for what's available in the stall and shops in town, or having to wait to find the item he wants in a dungeon. I don't _really_ like that either (see my mini-rant below ) but it's better than allowing the crafting at a discount.

(Mini-Rant: This brings up for me the fact that allowing crafting for PCs at all tends to completely devalue the cool stuff one finds while adventuring, and thus removes one of the staples of fantasy roleplaying.  Why would Bilbo and Frodo ever have settled for Sting, if they could have just custom ordered something 10 times better from their friends the dwarves, the elves, or Gandalf? And then where would the _story_ have been, without that cool sword that helps tie the whole thing together?

Once you allow crafting of magic items, and once the players get to the level they can make them, you might as well stop putting anything cool into the dungeons in the way of treasure and just put in piles of gold, 'cause for the most part all the players will want to do is sell what they find so they can make something tailored to their exact specifications.

Well, maybe not quite that extreme, but it makes my point.)


----------



## mleibrock

I feel like I'm playing Devil's advocate here and that is surely not my intent, Mike.  As I said earlier, it is your game so it is completely up to you and those magic user characters to decide how you want to handle it.

However, I do feel it might be a bit easier to just stick to what is written.  Pazio is pretty good about staying on top of things.  I think if there are too many house rules, it's not really pathfinder at all.

I think creating magic items is a very powerful ability and it is ultimately up to the GM to limit it.  Who says the creator can always find the raw materials easily.  Heck, at all for that matter?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Advocate away! I like a good debate . . . er . . . argument . . . umh . . . discussion! 

Looks like DeWar is fine with making the crafting of objects cost the same as buying them, and leaving the rest 'as-is.' This suits me as well, so for now at least that's what we'll do.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I wish otherwise, but in the intrest of keeping the game balenced, I will concede to the cost of create=cost of buy.

off topic: were you aboe to be in my homebrew game i have starting Mowgli?


----------



## renau1g

Personally I agree 100 per xent about the crafting removing a lot of the thrill of finding items. I like the new magic item rules in 4e. Youu can buy common items (like a +1 sword) but not an uncommon or rare item (like flametongue). Anyway I'm good either way.


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Anyway I'm good either way.



You're not _that_ good, Ryan.  Sorry to burst your bubble.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> You're not _that_ good, Ryan.  Sorry to burst your bubble.




Drat, can't give you XP for this one yet.


----------



## Scotley

I'm going to respectfully disagree with your assessment of the crafting rules. Note that I have not studied the Pathfinder rules, but assuming they bare some resemblance to the 3.5 rules you are ignoring a big part of the cost. 

First, there are specific spells required which may not be particularly useful outside of crafting, which seriously limits its effective use by classes with limited slots like Sorcerers and Bards. 

Second, the time requirement, which as you say is often hand waved.

Third, XP cost. So while you may have more wealth effectively than the rules for your level, if you get serious about crafting you'll also be lower level. That's a bid cost. 

Finally, you have to invest feats. To really do a lot of crafting you'll need more than one so you can make say Armor, Weapons and rings. Wizards can get them as bonus feats, but at the expense of meta-magic feats. For most other classes this is a huge cost. Clerics and Druids, who are the most likely crafters after Wizards will have to give up some really cool wildshape and turning feats or combat bonuses to get the crafting feats. I've never played a cleric without wanting for more feats. 

Now as a wizard, I can't really wear armor and most characters only use one weapon most of the time. So if I invest in those two feats and make myself two rings a missile weapon and a melee weapon am I really all that much more badass than a wizard who takes a couple of metamagic feats and is a level higher than me, has maybe a third less total equipment than me and who had more freedom to select his spells and greater downtime to invest in solo adventures, building contacts, researching spells or otherwise having fun?  

Like any system in this game if you are bound and determined to milk it for all its worth and abuse it you can probably eke out a small advantage from crafting. But I don't think it is the game breaker you make it out to be.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Pathfinder eliminated the xp cost (point 3)

for example: from the pf rpg ogl srd (plain text version)
Ring of Chameleon Power
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot ring; Price 12,700 gp; Weight —
Description
As a free action, the wearer of this ring can gain the ability to
magically blend in with the surroundings. This provides a
+10 competence bonus on her Stealth checks. As a standard
action, she can also use the spell disguise self as often as she
wants.
Construction Requirements
Forge Ring, disguise self, invisibility; Cost
6,350 gp

a feat with a pre requ. of caster level 7
a first level spell and a second level spell
 and gold in this case = to 1/2 the 'fair market value'


----------



## renau1g

Gotcha covered Scotley


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

[MENTION=11520]Scotley[/MENTION] (Sorry for the delay - I need to get this worked out before proceeding, and Scotley may want to change Keeland's action based on the result.)

In re-reading the Confused condition, it seems I was playing it wrong during the last fight. It looks to me as though even if the Peryton is confused it's still going to attack - probably Houwlou since he'd have hit it last. The main effect would be that it would focus all of its attacks on the wolfkin rather than splitting them as I've had it doing.

Could you read the text of the condition (I've got it pasted below) and give me your take? I've put the text that gives me this interpretation in bold.

*Confused*
A confused creature is mentally befuddled and cannot act normally. A confused creature cannot tell the difference between ally and foe, treating all creatures as enemies. Allies wishing to cast a beneficial spell that requires a touch on a confused creature must succeed on a melee touch attack. *If a confused creature is attacked, it attacks the creature that last attacked it until that creature is dead or out of sight.*

Roll on the following table at the beginning of each confused subject's turn each round to see what the subject does in that round.



		Code:
	

d% 	Behavior
01–25 	Act normally.
26–50 	Do nothing but babble incoherently.
51–75 	Deal 1d8 points of damage + Str modifier to self with item in hand.
76–100 	Attack nearest creature (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject's self).


A confused creature who can't carry out the indicated action does nothing but babble incoherently. Attackers are not at any special advantage when attacking a confused creature. *Any confused creature who is attacked automatically attacks its attackers on its next turn, as long as it is still confused when its turn comes.* Note that a confused creature will not make attacks of opportunity against anything that it is not already devoted to attacking (either because of its most recent action or because it has just been attacked).


----------



## Scott DeWar

was that before the condition started or after? I would figure it will fall into the catagory of atticking last attacker if that happens while it is confused as the result of the spell compelling it to do.

but that is just me.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Right, but Keeland actually acts first (among the PCs) in the round. So Peryton attacks (done). Keeland fires off his spell, then the rest of you attack. Houwlou will be the last to attack the Peryton before its next action, so the way I read the spell it would then focus all of its attacks on Houwlou. This might actually be a desirable outcome, as it would draw the attacks to a higher AC character with more HP.

Just wanted to make sure I have the spell effect right and that this is what Scotley's expecting before I wrap the round.


----------



## mleibrock

*Confusing indeed*

The wording of this spell is very confusing.  So is what you are saying is being attacked takes precedence over anything else.  If he is attacked, he would not even roll to see if there is another effect?  I realize we need to clarify and move forward but I do not think this I what occured when we fought that were-beast.  Is it?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

It's not what I did in the fight with the were-leopard, which I recognized (and acknowledged) in the original question.

And you're right - the wording is confusing because even though it reads like the attacking an attacker takes precedence (it does say 'automatically') it doesn't specify this in the description of the rolling to determine actions.


----------



## Scotley

So basically if we read the spell that a confused creature will attack his/her attacker, then all the spell does in combat is make the creature attack regardless of its preference. That means the spell is only really useful when you want to avoid combat and it gives you like a 50/50 chance to do so per round. Not really a particularly functional spell. 

Interpreting it as if the language about attacks only applies after you make the roll for effect each round puts it on par with spells like blur and displacement that give a mischance only the creature gets a save, hence the lower level. To my way of thinking that makes more sense. Of course, as the player in this situation I might be biased.  

I'll hit the Paizo forums and see if I can find anything.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Thanks, Scott; for some reason I have the hardest time finding anything I want on their boards.

The additional functionality (besides avoiding combat) would be determining which party member the foe will attack by holding actions to change the initiative order. A very cool idea for the tactically minded group, but of limited use in most situations (this one being one of the exceptions - pardon me for putting Houwlou 'on the block' Leif ).


----------



## Scott DeWar

how, er, well,  .. .. .. .. confusing.


----------



## Scotley

Okay, I think after a little reading, the proper use of confusion is to cast it on a member of a group of foes and then not attack it. It isn't nearly as useful in a solo situation. Except that in this particular cast the bad guy is focused on the toughest target, which is good for us. So I guess we'll let it stand.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> pardon me for putting Houwlou 'on the block' Leif ).



Yeah, sure, when all else fails kick the damn dog, uh, wolf!


----------



## Scott DeWar

I will not kick the damn dog. I rolled a 1 on the acide dart attack, so I have no room to talk.

On that note, that dart had to have gone SOMEWHERE and hit SOMETHING, and being acid it will damage what ever it hit, so I will let this fluff go to the dm!

sorry guys, only the air elemental hit.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Oh, goody! Go ahead and roll to hit again - if you miss it'll be a critical . . .

You can just attach it to the same post as your other rolls.


----------



## Scott DeWar

*shudder* *sob* * shudder* ** rolls d 20 .. .. .. .. it is a 13. for a touch attack. Just checked and a 13 is exactly a touch attack. Made it. Just!


----------



## mleibrock

*posting frequency*

I have a friend coming in town today so my posting will be slow if at all until monday.  Sorry guys...it's just getting good.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I just started a new job and i have been given an electrical job on top of that. I will do my best to keep up, but it will kind of depend on a lot of issues.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Seems like you guys are stuck on what to do with the wicked, evil Peryton over in the IC thread. If it helps, he's quite insane (as are they all) and though he speaks it's only in Ancient Azlanti - which none of you understands - and his ravings would make no sense anyway. The creature is beyond redemption, and the Gnolls were simply keeping it fat and happy so it would be a nice trap for anyone trying to move in on the town.


----------



## mleibrock

Thanks Mike,  I was really struggling with what to do with him.

However Tsadok, will not be able to finish him off, you guys will have to give him some help and probably convince him it will be the best thing for everyone.


----------



## renau1g

Aodhan has little/no knowledge of the arcane, planes or natural world, this creature is not undead right? Assuming not, he'd defer to those whom know more about these areas to provide the convincing. He would have no problem dropping the axe, but without a good explanation it may lead to another scrum with our rogue and I've no interest in repeating that. I am sure I couldn't count on the dice to cooperate again to push Tsadok over again (got lucky that time)


----------



## Leif

Mr. DM, is the peryton basically defenseless and we are just waiting for someone to administer the _coup de grace_?  If so, Houwlou would be more than happy to oblige.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

That is basically the case, though I think Mike L wants a little RP to convince Tsadok.


----------



## Leif

Yeah, I already took a shot at that in the IC.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Would Harnrey know that the creature is insane and totaly beyond help?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Keeland would know for sure, but I didn't roll well enough for anyone else to know much about it.


----------



## Scott DeWar

got it. Just trying to operate on character knowledge. Kinda frustrating right now.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

And I appreciate it! Sorry you've hit a snag here, but it's one of the things that makes playing your character challenging/fun . . .


----------



## Scott DeWar

gerrr!!

gerrrrrr!!!

GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

At least with PBP you can walk away and think about iit for a while.


----------



## renau1g

Scott DeWar said:


> At least with PBP you can walk away and think about iit for a while.




or punch the screen when you're frustrated


----------



## Scott DeWar

This is my laptop. That would destroy it.


----------



## renau1g

Ah, then you'll have to go to a library first...then run quickly


----------



## Scott DeWar

We got more ice and snow since yesterday. about 3 inches worth. Kind of hard to run in that slippery skid stuff.


----------



## renau1g

Interesting thing I saw today in a preview for an upcoming Monster Vault for 4e...The Peryton!








and the Penanggalan


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Sweet pic! Better than the one in the PF Bestiary.


----------



## Leif

Very cool Peryton pic!  But the Penanggalan is just ICKY!!  Bleccch!


----------



## Scott DeWar

*shudder*


----------



## Scott DeWar

good thing I ain't a Penanggalan.


----------



## Leif

Dude, you sure said a mouthful there!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Geez, I even put it in bold!



Mowgli said:


> *GM:*  Everyone gets one (*and only one*) post before I move forward.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Sorry, i was a little pissed to see that my post was totally negated by the coup de grace.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott DeWar said:


> Sorry, i was a little pissed to see that my post was totally negated by the coup de grace.




Yeah, I figured . Probably cause no end of trouble with Tsadok, too!


----------



## renau1g

I'm back  Got some catching up to do though. (yowzers! 4 pages in less than a week...)


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Yeah, we've been moving right along! I didn't do anything crazy with Aodhán. Kept him throwing javelins and out of the caltrops.

Glad you're back!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Yup caaltrops were a good idea on moving soldiers, but they stopped at the frickin door!


----------



## Leif

It was still a good idea if what you wanted to do was impair _our_ mobility!


----------



## Scott DeWar

I was trying to impair their mobility.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I've been playing with a few folks - and GMing some of them as well - who are much more tactically minded than I. I'm trying to learn from them, and where the bad guy's intelligence and combat skill allows for it to play your enemies 'smarter.'

Paizo adventures have a reputation for being extraordinarily tough, and with the exception of a few fights where I had some good rolls you guys have been walking through this one pretty well.

Tsadok's been down but not out a couple of times so he's really been feeling some punishment; but his character's pretty 'squishy,' and he's playing him like a front line fighter (which I find very cool because it's very much in character, but it's led him into a couple of tight spots). I've barely managed to touch the rest of you.

Part of that's been because I haven't been using the bad guys to their full potential - I missed a LOT of opportunities in the fight with Hadar the Katapeshi Wereleopard, for example.

Part of it has been a pacing issue. Too much time to rest and regroup has meant that I haven't been able to make you use up your resources, and you've been able to hit almost every major fight with all of your spells, etc. at your disposal.

This last series has been a little better. First, the pacing is a little more stressful - this will be the third encounter without a real break.

I couldn't do much with the Peryton, because 1) though he was smart his playing field was limited and his strategy was set by his madness and 2) Tsadok was slamming him every single freakin' roll. But he did suck up a lot of HP, and by extension used up some resources in the form of spells and energy channels.

The Gnolls I played somewhat smarter. They set up where they couldn't be flanked, gave their archers cover and were patient. Harnry's caltrops could've been bad for them - it was a great idea, but I was able to use that second row against you. I couldn't catch a break on my attack rolls, so I never actually managed to damage you at all in that fight. But again, it sucked quite a few of your resources because the set up forced your wizard to play like a wizard instead of a fighter. Also, Houwlou's out of javelins .

Finally, the Gnoll's were smart enough to send for reinforcements, which leads nicely into your third encounter . . .

I've still got a lot to learn about playing combats smarter, but I'm getting there. And while I don't want to kill your characters, I do want to do a better job of challenging _all_ of you as a group rather than just trying to kill off Tsadok .


----------



## Leif

I fail to see how Houwlou being out of javelins is a detriment to the party.   He has been singularly ineffective with his missile fire every time that he has used them before. [You DON'T have to agree so readily, Scott!]


----------



## Scott DeWar

A pep talk before the next encounter? Yee gadz, what are we up against?!


----------



## mleibrock

*Leif*

Nice roll buddy.  Roll that crit check!!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

OOC: Update later this AM - Had a very busy weekend, then got sick Sunday evening. Spent most of the day yesterday either in bed or at the doctor's office. I'll be home today as well, but I'm feeling better - I'll start playing catch up after I get the wife off to work and our daughter off to school.


----------



## Scott DeWar

ooc: wow, sick and still able to play as mr. mom.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

[MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION] Just need Aodhán's action over in the IC and I can move it forward.


----------



## renau1g

Just a note I'll probably be slow posting this weekend as the weather is expected to be nice here so we might be spending a lot of time outdoors with the boys to burn off their pent-up energy from our winter semi-hibernation. 

If I'm holding things up, I'd want to try and get a CMW cast on Tsadok, burn invisibility to cast it.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Gotcha - thanks for letting us know!

(BTW, does the different color on your name mean you sprang for the Silver Membership?)


----------



## renau1g

Yeah, I'm a high-roller now  

I just really want the Zeitgeist AP, I'm a sucker for steampunk. I liked the 4e conversion for Burning Sky, but I'm sure they'll do a much better job balancing encounters after some experience with the system. I do want to run a RL game again... having an AP is great and there's even companion characters built in as part of the story I can run as an extra PC to shore up a missing role (like healer)


----------



## Scott DeWar

you should try running pathfinder. it is a MUCH BETTER system!


----------



## renau1g

If only I could agree with you on that we'd have a lot more games together I think


----------



## Scott DeWar

All you have to do is say, "Why yes David, You are totally correct!"


----------



## Leif

Why yes, David, you are totally correct, Pathfinder is far superior!

Why yes, Ryan, you are totally correct, 4E is clearly the best choice!

[What can I say?  I like both!  ]


----------



## Scott DeWar

Couldn't have been better lawyerized by a better person!!


----------



## Leif

As if you could even hope to find a better person who _could_ lawyerize it! 

Well, okay, maybe Lou, but then again maybe not so much.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*OOC Tactics, Retconning and Initiative Count*

Great fight! Nobody died, but the Schir tested you hard . . . excellent!

In this case the retcon of Leif's actions is fine - Tsadok's initiative was before Houwlou's, so it all worked out.

I _would_ prefer to keep discussions of tactics IC. In this case I put Mike's thoughts into an instruction by Tsadok to give an example. The PC's can't read each others minds, after all . . . 

To cut down on the retconning, I'd also like to try keeping combat posts in order of the initiative count. After over two years of adventuring, we're not in a hurry and this party is small enough that it shouldn't be hard to keep up with who's turn it is. The Combat Status Blocks are always posted in initiative order, so that will help.

So to sum up, for future combats I'd like to keep to the initiative count and post IC instructions rather than OOC discussions of tactics.

(Note that I'm not at all unhappy with the way this fight went! I pushed you guys hard and you did well - good drama there!)


----------



## mleibrock

Mikey,

Agreed!  Great fight and I for one was not expecting another big fight right after the first one and then the guard.  That was definitely set up to try us.

Sorry about the reneging.  I've been very busy with working both jobs and finding a new house (did you get my email?), so my posting has been slow and untimely.  That, combined with Leif's ambitiousness to be a timely poster, caused this situation.  I'll make sure I have my characters verbalize things like this in the future.  I would not have done this if Tsadok would not have gone first.  Thanks for letting it stand!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

mleibrock said:


> Mikey,
> 
> Agreed!  Great fight and I for one was not expecting another big fight right after the first one and then the guard.  That was definitely set up to try us.
> 
> Sorry about the reneging.  I've been very busy with working both jobs and finding a new house (did you get my email?), so my posting has been slow and untimely.  That, combined with Leif's ambitiousness to be a timely poster, caused this situation.  I'll make sure I have my characters verbalize things like this in the future.  I would not have done this if Tsadok would not have gone first.  Thanks for letting it stand!




Not a problem . Since Tsadok went first that's likely how it would have played out anyway.

Man, that house is SWEET! I hope that's not y'alls furniture in it though . . . if the baby crib's yours I'll be very disappointed you didn't say anything to me earlier!


----------



## mleibrock

Mowgli said:


> Not a problem . Since Tsadok went first that's likely how it would have played out anyway.
> 
> Man, that house is SWEET! I hope that's not y'alls furniture in it though . . . if the baby crib's yours I'll be very disappointed you didn't say anything to me earlier!




LOL - You know I would have said something sooner.  Nope, looks like my genepool is gonna die with me.


----------



## Scott DeWar

mleibrock said:


> Mikey, Sorry about the reneging. Leif's ambitiousness to be a timely poster caused this situation.



AHA! I knew It was Leif's fault!!


----------



## Leif

Sure, sure, everybody Olcan-pile the ranger.


----------



## renau1g

It's ok, I'll heal all those wounds to your soul good ranger...


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Sure, sure, everybody dog-pile the ranger.




all in good fun!


----------



## Leif

Leif said:


> Sure, sure, everybody Olcan-pile the ranger.





Scott DeWar said:


> all in good fun!



Sure!  That's what we're here for, isn't it?  But nobody saw fit to comment on my choice turn of phrase?

Well, _I_ think it's funny, anway.


----------



## Scott DeWar

but I DID make a comment! see? :



Leif said:


> Sure, sure, everybody _*dog-pile*_ the ranger.


----------



## Leif

OOPS, Houwlou didn't have a _cure light wounds_ prepared, did he?  I removed his reference to it speaking to Tsadok.    Gee, I really thought he prepared one of those!  Game-Tomorrow, for sure!


----------



## Scotley

Yes, excellent fight. I shall endeavor to adhere to the initiative order in future.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> Yes, excellent fight. I shall endeavor to adhere to the initiative order in future.



Call me crazy, but I thought the fight SUCKED!  I mean, Houwlou gots a boo-boo!


----------



## renau1g

And somehow Aodhan escaped with nary a scratch.... maybe next time I should bring the coward to the front and keep the wizard behind me


----------



## Scott DeWar

Well, I was out of range of the combat untill the BBEG leaped over ever every one and landed next to Harnrey. That guy would have gotten to me no matter what.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> Call me crazy, but I thought the fight SUCKED!  I mean, Houwlou gots a boo-boo!




If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Call me crazy, but I thought the fight SUCKED!  I mean, Houwlou gots a boo-boo!




You are not the only injured one in the fight. Tsadock almost died!


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.



Watch it, bub, or I'll hike my leg on you!


Scott DeWar said:


> You are not the only injured one in the fight. Tsadock almost died!



He might agree with me, too, about the sucking part.  But probably not.  Mikey's kind of a masochist.


----------



## mleibrock

Leif said:


> Watch it, bub, or I'll hike my leg on you!
> 
> He might agree with me, too, about the sucking part.  But probably not.  Mikey's kind of a masochist.




Hehe,  you know me too well.  Why else would I be contemplating a third marriage?


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> Hehe,  you know me too well.  Why else would I be contemplating a third marriage?



SEE?? I rest my case!  

Mikey, Son, ya got balls as big as church bells!  Here's hoping that it works out this time, if you do sign on for a third hitch.


----------



## mleibrock

*Patterson....Patterson...Patterson*

Calling Mike Patterson...are you in class today?


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> Hehe,  you know me too well.  Why else would I be contemplating a third marriage?



Hey, I just remembered:  THIRD?  Guess I totally missed #2.


----------



## mleibrock

LOL!  I wish I would have


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> LOL!  I wish I would have



I knows JUST how ya feel, bruthah!  My own number 2 was horribly ill-advised!


----------



## renau1g

FYI - I'm just getting over a terrible flu that had me on my A$$ for the better part of the week...ugh...


----------



## Scott DeWar

Don't pass it on to the kids!


----------



## renau1g

They passed it to me...good ol' daycares aka germ factories


----------



## Scott DeWar

oh. Are they ok? Is the wify got her hands full with you all? These are the times I bet you are glad to have her, HUH?!

just get well man!


----------



## renau1g

She got sick too. The boys got sick on Monday night and through Tuesday, I was sick on Tuesday through yesterday, my wife got sick on Tuesday night and is feeling better today... only the baby escaped the sickness. Luckily the boys were able to keep down liquid the second day so we avoided a trip to the hospital for dehydration again.


----------



## Scott DeWar

OI! All of you get well soon! I never lost a day to the flu for the last 3 years or so.


----------



## mleibrock

Hey guys,

My week just got really busy.  I'm headed to the Minneapolis Zoo tomorrow to troubleshoot some of their filtration for their new penguin exhibit which is opening tomorrow so I will not have any time to post for the next few days.

Mike, can you please take over Tsadok until you hear from me?  I dont want to hold things up but I expect it'll only be 2 or 3 days until I can post again if you guys can wait.


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> I expect it'll only be 2 or 3 days until I can post again if you guys can wait.



HE** NO!!!!  GET YOUR BUTT BACK HERE AND POST!   Penguins have done just fine without you for MILLENIA!  Do you expect us to believe that it was YOU who made them so danged cute?

kidding, kidding.  Well, mostly.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Yeah, It was I who made them them so danged cute, not M.Lleibrock.


----------



## mleibrock

Leif,  you are cracking me up.  At Chicago airport now waiting on my flight. I would be posting if AT&T weren't so danged greed but as it is I can not tether my phone any longer as I'll lose my unlimited data plan.  Grrrr.  

As far as the penguins go.  Live penguins are much cuter than dead ones.  (at least in my opinion).  Though they both smell terrible.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

We'll struggle on without you somehow for the next couple of days . . .   I don't expect you'll miss much, though Tsadok's situation right now is a little more dire than Lerissa's!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Haernrey ain't lookin so hot either.


----------



## renau1g

mleibrock said:


> As far as the penguins go.  Live penguins are much cuter than dead ones.  (at least in my opinion).  Though they both smell terrible.




Not sure I agree with you on that one...











are way cuter than:


----------



## Scott DeWar

Gaaaaahh! zombie penguins?! what fowl minded fiend would do such a thing?


----------



## Scotley

He did say dead, not undead. There is a distinction.


----------



## Scott DeWar

*epic channel energy* BLAM! now they are dead.


----------



## Scott DeWar

ok, a serios question:

[from the pathfinder srd pdf page 560]
[sblock]
Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal
damage directly to your ability scores. 
***blah blah blah***

Constitution: Damage to your Constitution score causes you to take penalties on your Fortitude saving throws.

* In addition, multiply your total Hit Dice by this penalty*[/b]

 and subtract that amount from your current and total hit points. Lost hit points are restored
[/sblock]

edit note: much edited for relevancy. i just hope Zi didn't remove the answer to my question!

the question per the emphasized line:
when it is talking about the penaly, is it saying that the oenalty is 1 point drain = i point penalty?
or
is it saying that if the effect of 1 point drain brings it to the next number back you take a penalty of 1 on ability  effects?

ex for #2: going from 14 con to 13 con will cause a penalty of 1 on fort and hp, but going from 15 to 14 would have on effect as those numbers have the same +X bonus.

Question 2:
quote: Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. 

does this mean that the over night rest just done would heal the one point of drain? or would this have to be comple whole day of rest?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I think you didn't read quite far enough. We're talking about two different conditions:

Ability Score *Damage* doesn't actually lower the ability score. It only applies a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that score. This penalty is -1 for every two points of Ability Score Damage. Ability Score Damage is healed at the rate of 1 point of Damage per day.

Ability Score *Drain* is much more serious. It actually reduces the affected ability score, affecting all relevant statistics. It can only be healed by magical means such as a _Restoration_ spell. So Harnry's 1 point of Constitution Drain lowers his Constitution from 16 to 15, and it will stay that way until cured by a magical effect at least as strong as a _Restoration_ spell.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Which not reading enough was what I was afraid i would do. drain - found the paragraph, and i see it only mentions restoration as the means to counter it. no way of rest. Am I reading that right?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Yep.


----------



## Scott DeWar

'K

Now I need to go the ic and find out what 2 fails did to me. *shudder*


----------



## Scotley

Scott DeWar said:


> 'K
> 
> Now I need to go the ic and find out what 2 fails did to me. *shudder*




Um, yeah, can't be good.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> Um, yeah, can't be good.



He probably deserves it, though.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Just need Tsadok's saves, and I'll put both results up in the IC.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> He probably deserves it, though.




[innocent whistling] huh? what ever did I do?[/innocent whistling]


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Hope to update and get things moving again this evening.


----------



## Leif

"Gopher Wood" for Scotley?

GEICO Woodchucks


----------



## Scott DeWar

they are still chuckin that wood eh?


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> "Gopher Wood" for Scotley?
> 
> GEICO Woodchucks




Well, now that the river has crested I guess I can stop bidding as I won't be needing that Ark after all.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> Well, now that the river has crested I guess I can stop bidding as I won't be needing that Ark after all.



I dunno.  You should be able to "land" that Ark without too much more bidding now.  You'll probably be needing it again next year.


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> I dunno.  You should be able to "land" that Ark without too much more bidding now.  You'll probably be needing it again next year.




Well the river hasn't been this high since 1937, so maybe by the time it floods this bad again I'll be long gone.


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> Well the river hasn't been this high since 1937, so maybe by the time it floods this bad again I'll be long gone.



No way!  Scotley has to live FOREVER!!


----------



## Scott DeWar

I heard the surge is making its way to New Orleans.


----------



## renau1g

Scotley's a lich?!?!? uh-oh...


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> Scotley's a lich?!?!? uh-oh...




If he is a lich, I am a Solar.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> I heard the surge is making its way to New Orleans.



New Orleans?  But that would mean that the surge is moving DOWNSTREAM!  Oh, yeah.  That's what rivers do, ordinarily.


----------



## Scott DeWar

that surge \has been moving for several days now. That is what I am saying. hardly north of N.O. and it is still trying to make its way down there.

During the flood of '93 there would be a surge in KC and it would be at the boot heel within 36 hours.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> that surge has been moving for several days now. That is what I am saying. hardly north of N.O. and it is still trying to make its way down there.
> 
> During the flood of '93 there would be a surge in KC and it would be at the boot heel within 36 hours.



Jonesboro is about 20 miles from the southern tip of the bootheel.  Luckily, it's on a ridge, though.


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:


> Scotley's a lich?!?!? uh-oh...




I may need a new avatar.


----------



## Scotley

Hey renau1g, no offense to your swanky new ride (I am envious), but isn't an Enclave a place? Seems like a funny name for something you use to get around in. What do I know, my ride's name isn't even a real word, and they don't make them anymore. 

I really wish I had the 42k to spring for a new Boss 302 Mustang.


----------



## renau1g

Enclave - A portion of territory within or surrounded by a larger territory whose inhabitants are culturally or ethnically distinct. Maybe the road is the larger territory? Yeah, I got nothing.

Funny enough, the Buick Lacrosse is called the Buick Allure here in Canada because "la crosse" means 'self love' in Quebec French slang. Whoops...

Like the Chevy Nova. GM's not known for their terrific names. Nothing iconic like the Mustang.

Edit: One thing Scotley, you mention that you really wish you had $42k for that car? Are you not an American? You do the reputation a disservice. Why don't you just borrow the money against your mortgage (even better if you have an interest only one) and then you get to write off the interest against your taxes. Everyone wins


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> Enclave - A portion of territory within or surrounded by a larger territory whose inhabitants are culturally or ethnically distinct. Maybe the road is the larger territory? Yeah, I got nothing.




Its a rolling man cave guys! Dont ya get it?

My wheels are the same as a super cool RPG  (Nissan) Pathfinder.


----------



## Leif

I'm kinda partial to my Hyundai Santa Fe.  Guess that's why I picked it out and bought it, huh?  But I still think the name of the make looks like it ought to be pronounced "Huh-Yoon-Die."


----------



## Scott DeWar

i have good things about Santa Fe's


----------



## Leif

My 2005 Santa Fe is still going strong.  Almost as good as new.


----------



## Scott DeWar

engine and drive train running good, frame rusted beyond economical repair- it is a 1993 with 253,XXX miles on it.


----------



## renau1g

My first car was a 1991 Toyota Corolla. I drove it from high school until university was done. It ended up with over 320k km's on it (just shy of 200k miles). Sadly, the engine was starting to have some major problems (well, that and I got a job at GM...not the best to roll in with your #1 competitor's product)


----------



## Scott DeWar

*a quick game related question*

can you make things like scrolls and potions while being sick as a dog?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

What's this? A game related question in the discussion thread? Surely _that_ doesn't belong here! 

I know of no ruling that would keep you from making scrolls and potions while ill, though it sort of goes against the grain. Anyone else know of anything preventing it?

For sure if you're trying to recover from damage such activity would not count as 'restful.'


----------



## Leif

I don't know of any specific rule to prevent it, but I agree, Mowgli, that it doesn't sound overly restful.  Hmmm, the strongest argument that I can think of against the idea looks at the situation from an RP standpoint:  A really sick character would probably not feel like mixing potions and scribing scrolls, would he?  (Not to even mention that he might wind up blowing his nose on his scroll vellum.)  

To be totally fair, however, this does remind me of something that one of your characters would try, Mowgs.


----------



## Scott DeWar

the potion thing would not be too restful, but scribing a scroll? . . . .

and Harnrey can only scribe a scroll-no brew potion feat at this time.


----------



## Leif

I've edited my previous post since you made your posting, I think, DeWar.  And I also think that scroll scribing is supposed to require more effort and mental energy than just making out a shopping list.


----------



## renau1g

I might apply a penalty to the check to either make the scroll or the next saving throw?


----------



## Scotley

Perhaps a time penalty? Maybe get half normal value for time on scribing while healing?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Need to know how much loot you've got on hand? Take a look at the Swag List on Obsidian Portal!

I think to keep things simple we'll just say that you cannot heal any damage naturally if you're scribing scrolls, brewing potions, or otherwise doing anything beyond simple everyday activities.


----------



## Scott DeWar

such as 500 gp per day instead of 1000,  and 125 for a quarter day?


----------



## mleibrock

Hey guys!  I'm partying it up in Vegas this weekend but wanted to chime in on this.  I agree is goes against the grain a bit and maybe if you want to role-play it correctly you wouldn't attempt this but if the rules are not disallowing and you want to, go for it.  Our gracious GM knows the rules pretty well and he is not telling you no.  Think of it evening things up after the were-wolf confusion spell think didn't go quite right.

I'll get a post up IC tomorrow night


----------



## Scott DeWar

I think this should be under the dm's call then.


----------



## Scotley

I would be willing to contribute a share to getting healing for our comrades. 

Can anyone use the +1 halberd? That might be a good item to trade for credit. We could get the scroll and leave the balance on account with Almah as other expenses arise. Keeland needs to spend a gold piece refilling his quiver. 

I should also mention that Tempest should be placed on the distributed treasure list for Keeland. 

Keeland will also take the down time to examine the items we've so far ignored like the leather armor, Nethys mask and bronze scarab both for value and magic. 

What's the deal on the formulas on the list? Is this something we can make ourselves or something that might be a good item to trade with Almah?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

The leather armor is Fortified, but not magical. The value of the bronze Nethys Mask is as listed. The Bronze Scarab functions as a wand of _Open/Close_, currently with 14 charges.

The instructions for the creation of the ointment and pigments are of little personal worth to you, but could bring 150 gp each to a professional alchemist.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

What did you all decide about Haidar's equipment? I can' remember if you returned it to him (via Almah) or kept it for yourselves.


----------



## mleibrock

Mowgli said:


> What did you all decide about Haidar's equipment? I can' remember if you returned it to him (via Almah) or kept it for yourselves.




I think we left it with him.  Tsadok would not feel comfortable taking his employer's father's stuff.  But I'm sure she would understand either way.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I think we left it with the cleric that was going to treat him.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Fair enough - I'll delete it from the OP Swag List.


----------



## renau1g

Agreed. _I_ wanted to keep it, but _no_ those of morally stronger stuff than our cleric didn't want to take it...


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> Agreed. _I_ wanted to keep it, but _no_ those of morally stronger stuff than our cleric didn't want to take it...












*OOC:*


There is something strangely amiss with that statement .. .. .. ..


----------



## renau1g

Aodhan ain't no namby-pamby cleric, he's a dwarf for Lonrach's sake, not some elf, or halfling, or (even worse) a gnome. Dwarves are certainly known for their avariciousness, heck they even have a racial trait called Greedy!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

"You must spread some experience around before giving to renau1g again!"


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Aodhan ain't no namby-pamby cleric, he's a dwarf for Lonrach's sake, not some elf, or halfling, or (even worse) a gnome. Dwarves are certainly known for their avariciousness, heck they even have a racial trait called Greedy!



True enough, I suppose, but he's still got a ways to go before he approaches the Ultimate Cool of Houwlou.


----------



## Scott DeWar

*this is not a spam!*

Sorry, but, I am trying to get the attention of Leif- Your E-presence is requested by JTA in the four lands forums. Thank you for allowing this incursion.

Scott DeWar


----------



## renau1g

This last post has been reported for spam. Hopefully that poster will receive the thread ban hammer


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> This last post has been reported for spam. Hopefully that poster will receive the thread ban hammer



GOOD!  Little bugger won't leave me alone!


----------



## Scott DeWar

well go see what JTA has been mentioning you about!!


----------



## Leif

DEWAR is the one who's been mentioning me.   I've posted to JA's OOC, so we'll see what happens next.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Just need to know (over in the IC) what you guys plan to do next. To recap, Tsadok and Harnry have contracted some sort of disease, a very tough one to shake. You have the means available to combat the illness, but it'll cost.

If you plan to buy Almah's scroll, I just need to know how you'll pay for it. If not I'll be needing saving throws (two each from Harnry and Tsadok, FORT saves DC 18) and actions for the next day.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I recommend waiting one more day and see if we make it then. If not-the scroll.


----------



## renau1g

Sounds good. Aodhan again will try to help as much as he can. Prepare 2x lesser restorations to help out with ability damage


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> DEWAR is the one who's been mentioning me.   I've posted to JA's OOC, so we'll see what happens next.




Actually Lou mentioned you twice and scotley once before I ever mentioned you.


----------



## Leif

I concur with DeWar and renau1g.


----------



## Scotley

I had suggested trading the halberd in party treasure for the scroll and leaving the rest on account for future use, should we decide to buy the scroll. 

Keeland will cast Resistance as many times as needed to give +1's to all saves vs. the disease.

You might also consider buying some antiplague from the advanced players guide

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services#TOC-Antiplague


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> I had suggested trading the halberd in party treasure for the scroll and leaving the rest on account for future use, should we decide to buy the scroll.



Now, THAT sounds like a fine idea right there!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Selling that halberd is a great idea i concur with Leif.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> I concur with DeWar . . . . .






Scott DeWar said:


> .. .. .. .. i concur with Leif.




wait, the world is spinning- i hear a word- cathuluhu cathuluhu cathuluhu 

is this the end of the world because we concurred with each other?!?!?!?!?!? Arrrgh!!!!


----------



## renau1g

Ah, yes, regardless of the need of the scroll, I believe the best use of the waepon is for sale as none of us are especially proficient in it.


----------



## mleibrock

*Tsadok*

As one of those who is costing the party a large share of its treasure, Tsadok will do whatever the party likes.

He does ask, if we purchase the scroll, does it have a limited?  In other words:  Can we continue to decline to see if we might get better?  If not and we use the scroll, will it fully heal us?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

The scroll has four copies of the spell _Restoration_. Each use will completely heal the ability drain for one ability score (there are other uses as well; although none pertain to the party you might want to read the description of the spell in the Core Rules).


----------



## mleibrock

Good morning Mikey.  Hope the weather is not causing you and headaches or heartache.

So, what you might as well use the scroll as we can not heal all of this damage naturally anyway and it will heal one ability completely.  Correct?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Your only other options are to wait and hope you find potions or scrolls of Restoration in your adventures or to wait 'till Aodhan can cast 4th level spells.


----------



## Leif

renau1g, why don't you dash off and gain a couple more levels for the cleric while we lounge here and eat grapes.


----------



## renau1g

Sounds good, too bad I can't get Bonus XP like in the good ol' days

Priest:
Per successful use of granted power 100 XP
Spells cast to further ethos 100 XP/spell level


----------



## Scott DeWar

for considering keeping the equipment: -400 xp


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'll be leaving for the Internet Dead Zone later today or early tomorrow, and won't be able to post until Monday AM.


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:


> Sounds good, too bad I can't get Bonus XP like in the good ol' days
> 
> Priest:
> Per successful use of granted power 100 XP
> Spells cast to further ethos 100 XP/spell level




Or even XP for treasure!


----------



## mleibrock

Happy Birthday, Leif!  and Happy Friendship day to the rest of ya!


----------



## Scott DeWar

yea Leif, I done facebooked ya, so happy birthday dude!


----------



## Scotley

Happy Birthday Leif!  You should get a hell of a wish out of all those damn candles.


----------



## renau1g

Hmmmm.....maybe our fearless DM can grant you (or Houwlou rather) an actual _Wish_ on this special day.


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> Happy Birthday, Leif!  and Happy Friendship day to the rest of ya!





Scott DeWar said:


> yea Leif, I done facebooked ya, so happy birthday dude!





Scotley said:


> Happy Birthday Leif!  You should get a hell of a wish out of all those damn candles.





renau1g said:


> Hmmmm.....maybe our fearless DM can grant you (or Houwlou rather) an actual _Wish_ on this special day.



Thanks, guys!  Didn't go all the way with the candles -- just put _one_ box-full and quit.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Happy Birthday, my friend!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Thanks, guys!  Didn't go all the way with the candles -- just put _one_ box-full and quit.




Yeah, if you use one candle per year, you can take all the raw ingredients, stick the candles in and light them. The heat generated will be able to cook the cake right then and there. Either that  or you can sent the cake to Japan as a  new nuclear reactor!


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> Happy Birthday, my friend!



Muchas Gracias, Senor Pepe!


----------



## Scott DeWar

*A Thought expirament*

Creature summoned Advanced dire gorilla with a level of barbarian.


Dire Ape, advnced, _*barbarian 1*_ (Gigantopithecus) *CR 4 XP XXX* N Large animal
Init +4; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +1

Defense
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 15; (+4 Dex, +6 natural, –1 size)
hp 40 (5d8+20)
Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +6

Offense
Speed: 30 ft., climb 30 ft.
Melee: bite +9 (1d6+6), 2 claws +9 (1d4+6)
Space: 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks: rend (2 claws, 1d4+8)

Statistics+4 to all
Str 23, Dex 19, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 16, Cha 11
Base Atk +4; CMB +11; CMD 25
Feats: Iron Will, Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Climb +20, Perception +12, Stealth +6, Linguistics +1 (Common)

Known to many scholars as the gigantopithecus, the dire ape is a much more dangerous and bestial creature than the relatively peaceful gorilla. An adult male dire ape stands 9 feet tall and weighs 1,200 pounds. The dire ape attacks anything that intrudes on its territory, including other dire apes not of its troop, and does not break off the attack until the trespasser is dead or runs off.

A dire ape makes no displays of toughness or warnings before it attacks—it simply leaps into action with little or no provocation, tearing at its opponents with claws and teeth. If a dire ape is stymied by a heavily armored foe, it attempts to grapple its foe, pin it to the ground, and rend it.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott DeWar said:


> Creature summoned Advanced dire gorilla with a level of barbarian.




Summon Monster V (though it's not on the official list, of course, so I'd have to look at it again when we get a little closer to 9th level).


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Also, it's still an animal so it's intelligence will be 2 even with the advanced template. Can an creature with animal intelligence take class levels?


----------



## Scott DeWar

See, that is what i am needing-some sort of way to advance an anthro-whatever


----------



## Scott DeWar

another question: does a creature with a low or higher Int increase the cr by 1 if the creature gets a class level?

example: small earth elemental with barbarian 1.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

For characters with class levels, CR is Level -1 (CR½ for level one characters). I'm not sure what RAW says about adding class levels to creatures, but I'm gonna say for my games that it will increase the CR by 1 per class level added. I can't see giving a Dire Ape an extra HD, the ability to Rage and access to Martial Weapons, Armor and Shields without also bumping the CR, for example (not a good one, as it's still animal intelligence).


----------



## Scott DeWar

Well, the dire ape thing aside, how about the small earth elemental with a level of barbarian


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Summon Monster III


----------



## Scott DeWar

*smile* can you picture this creature?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

OK, folks . . . we're languishing here, so I need to know the group's desire. Is this a matter of loss of interest? RL interference? Lack of purpose or uncertainty of how to proceed? Some combination of the above, or something completely different?

If you're interested in continuing, I'm fully ready - my intention to run all 6 installments of this thing still holds. What can I do to help you get back into it?


----------



## Scotley

In my case it is just a bit of real life overload. I spent a week without internet access and then came back to do my regular work, plus all the crap I missed the week I was on vacation and the first week back in school for the youngest. I should be back to my usual slow, but mostly regular posting now.


----------



## Leif

I have no gripes, either.  In fact, I hadn't really noticed any 'languishing' happening.


----------



## mleibrock

Sorry Mike,

For me, it's been a welcome pace as I've been so busy with work (a good thing when you are self-employed I guess) and moving and unpacking into a new house.  I think I've got a hold of most things though and will be able to post daily again.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

My main concern is that you guys don't get bored DUE to the pace, or lose the storyline. If the pace is OK with you all, I've got plenty of other stuff going to keep me from getting bored.

I just don't want the game to drop because we're not moving fast enough.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> My main concern is that you guys don't get bored DUE to the pace, or lose the storyline. If the pace is OK with you all, I've got plenty of other stuff going to keep me from getting bored.
> 
> I just don't want the game to drop because we're not moving fast enough.



Yeah, well, we haven't heard from DeWar and renau1g yet.  They still could set up a chorus of bitches that deafens us all.

Or not....


Hmm, "chorus of bitches."  Imagine the possibilities....


----------



## Scott DeWar

no gripes, just real life


----------



## Leif

Say, while I'm thinking about it, does ENWorld look strange today and yesterday to anyone besides me?  It's all white where it used to be black. Still works fine, as far as I can tell, but it's just looking kinda weird and freaking me out.


----------



## renau1g

Yeah morrus was goofing around with the settings from what I heard. Anywhoo, I've been super busy with work this summer after vacation, which is a far cry from the normal summer break us tax folks normally get... no bitching from me. I'm still good with the pace, theres still no problem remembering the story, etc. Leif may have a problem, what with old age and all .

Edit: http://www.enworld.org/forum/meta/310429-help-new-blinding-look.html here's the link to the thread


----------



## Leif

renau1g said:


> Yeah morrus was goofing around with the settings from what I heard. Anywhoo, I've been super busy with work this summer after vacation, which is a far cry from the normal summer break us tax folks normally get... no bitching from me. I'm still good with the pace, theres still no problem remembering the story, etc. Leif may have a problem, what with old age and all .



Heh!  Be careful, my Canucky Friend -- there are three in this game who are older than I am, _including_ the GM!


----------



## Scott DeWar

like me!


----------



## mleibrock

Scott DeWar said:


> roflmao-FIfy!




LOL - yep, that is what I meant.  Fun stuff!


----------



## mleibrock

"as he imagines this gnoll impaled on a spit and slowly roasting over a fire of gnoll bitches and young ones."

Well now, isn't that a nice image.


----------



## Scott DeWar

harnrey is picturing the gnoll being grappled by an air elemental, flowen to 200 feet and dropped.

*SPLAT*


----------



## Leif

blehhh.


----------



## mleibrock

Patiently awaiting the gnoll's response.  (OK not so patient )


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Headed to the lake all day tomorrow to winterize the trailers and the boat. I'll try to get us going again either tomorrow night or Sunday. Hang in there!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

. . . and here it is Wednesday morning and I've still not updated! My most sincere apologies, and I'm about to head over to make what'll end up being a short response that I should have taken care of days ago.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Madeline87st said:


> Too many changes, making my poor head spin




The above person quoted has been reported as a spammer. There are hidden links in their post that occur when you quote the person.


----------



## Scott DeWar

As time heals my left arm, I will be returning to my games, one by one.

David J


----------



## mleibrock

So glad you are on the mend and that u will be rejoining us!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Nerves are slow to mend, most regrettably.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Got your poke, Mikey! Working on a couple of things for this one, mainly trying to figure out how to move the action forward in such a way that I don't end up with a TPK; may have to roll the dice and take some chances with it. IIRC everyone's got a Hero Point or two that I need to bleed out of you . . . 

Also trying to figure out what Tsadok, that lover of life, is going to do with a substance pretty much guaranteed to make someone's life hell on earth .


----------



## mleibrock

Mowgli said:


> Got your poke, Mikey! Working on a couple of things for this one, mainly trying to figure out how to move the action forward in such a way that I don't end up with a TPK; may have to roll the dice and take some chances with it. IIRC everyone's got a Hero Point or two that I need to bleed out of you . . .
> 
> Also trying to figure out what Tsadok, that lover of life, is going to do with a substance pretty much guaranteed to make someone's life hell on earth .




I wasn't sure either.  I thought though that the less there is out there for others to buy the better...at least that was my thought.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

mleibrock said:


> I wasn't sure either.  I thought though that the less there is out there for others to buy the better...at least that was my thought.




Hmmm. Tsadok's own personal war on drugs! It's highly likely you don't have much money, but you should have at least some - you guys have found gear and some magic you've decided to sell. I'll do some research, but in the meantime I think I recall putting a 'Loot' page on OP, along with a page for characters to list what they've taken from the loot page. Try looking in the Index Bar on the Wiki tab.


----------



## mleibrock

I'm leaving town for a weekend getaway.  I might be able to post a little but no promises.


----------



## Scott DeWar

*boink* to page 1


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> *boink* to page 1



Hey!! Quit boinking li'l' Mikey in here!  You're gettin' the thread all sticky!


----------



## Scott DeWar

ewwwwwwwwwwwww!


----------



## Leif

Sorry 'bout that


----------



## Scott DeWar

FYI I will be in KC this weekend


----------



## Leif

This is too funny!  Check it out at once!

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/324553-d-d-turned-up-11-a-2.html#post5938989


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Sorry guys - I know I've been lagging here. I've got a busy few days headed into the new school year, and then hopefully I'll be able to pick up the pace once more.

The task before you is to actually do something to take this town back for Almah. Either an all out, full frontal assault or some guerrilla action to take the majority of the Gnolls down piecemeal before the final confrontation . . . but Kardswann and the Gnolls are pretty well happy as things are and won't come to you.


----------



## Leif

Would it be possible to get either a post of a map of the town or, if there has already been one posted recently, the number of the post where it can be found?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I'll always try to keep a map of your current area in the "Current Tasks" link from the "Wiki" tab on OP. And there's a link to that site in my sig (last link in the first line, labeled "A Merc's Life").

Here's a direct link: Current Tasks

(There's a map of Kelmarane and a map of the surrounding area on that page)


----------



## Scott DeWar

we are still on with the gorilla tactics, right?


----------



## Leif

Sorry, Mowgs, forgot about that link to the maps, eesh.

"Gorilla" DeWar?  I think some orangutan tactics suit you better.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:


> Sorry, Mowgs, forgot about that link to the maps, eesh.
> 
> "Gorilla" DeWar?  I think some orangutan tactics suit you better.




No problemo, amigo! I haven't been doing a very good job of keeping this moving, and sigs sort of disappear from the conscious mind after a few hundred posts of seeing the same one over and over.

Also, since we haven't been progressing much there haven't been any updates to the OP site, so there've been no e-mail reminders that it's there.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> No problemo, amigo! I haven't been doing a very good job of keeping this moving, and sigs sort of disappear from the conscious mind after a few hundred posts of seeing the same one over and over.



_Merci, mon ami!_  Truly, I hadn't noticed any misfeasance on your part, so don't sewat it, big guy!


Mowgli said:


> Also, since we haven't been progressing much there haven't been any updates to the OP site, so there've been no e-mail reminders that it's there.



I turned off the email reminders as soon as I joined OP, just like I did with the ENWorld email reminders!   Yikes!  I have inbox overload without inviting ten tons of daily spam!  Well, technically, I guess it can't be truly spam if you invite it, but ten tons of purely throwaway email, anyway.


----------



## renau1g

Just dropping by to say hi. I'm glad this (and Merc's Life) is still going on. 

Great job Mowgli.


----------



## Scott DeWar

renau1g said:


> Just dropping by to say hi. I'm glad this (and Merc's Life) is still going on.
> 
> Great job Mowgli.




Ahhhh! deserter! 

Desertion during war is punishable by death!!


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Ahhhh! deserter!
> 
> Desertion during war is punishable by death!!



What? Where?  I didn't hear anything except some little buzzing.


----------



## mleibrock

Scott DeWar said:


> we are still on with the gorilla tactics, right?




Yep, That's Tsadok's vote.


----------



## Scotley

renau1g said:


> Just dropping by to say hi. I'm glad this (and Merc's Life) is still going on.
> 
> Great job Mowgli.




Glad to see you are still about.


----------



## Scotley

I'm still good with the <insert primate of choice> tactics.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> I'm still good with the <insert primate of choice> tactics.




chimp change tactics?


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> I'm still good with the <insert primate of choice> tactics.



Heh!  I still am, too, ya know.


----------



## mleibrock

Is Tsadok's Demon Fever healed?  I think the group paid for a scroll or something but I still had it in hero lab.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Sure - call it all healed up. It's been, like, a year since he contracted it after all .


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> Sure - call it all healed up. It's been, like, a year since he contracted it after all .



A YEAR???  Ok, Rip Van DM!!


----------



## Scott DeWar

So that happened b4 i went into the hospital?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Bumping this for general principles


----------



## Scott DeWar

Ok, I need a memory refresher here. the home town of the characters is Saor Ghabháltas, right?

that is the only map I see on the Obsideon portal map tab. You said there is an updated map, but this simple electrician isn't navigating to the right spot.

HELP!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

The Map Tab on OP is almost useless for me - limited number of maps, and difficult to upload a map to it.

For pretty much everything on the OP site for my games, your starting point should be the Wiki tab. I put a sidebar up there with links to all the good stuff. Maps of the area you're currently exploring can be found under the Current Tasks link in that sidebar.

I put the link to "Current Tasks" (and the map) in the text of my last IC post. Here it is again:

MAP


----------



## Scott DeWar

I was just reading up on _*HERO POINTS*_ when I saw this phrase:

"You can use a hero point to grant this bonus to another character, as  long as you are in the same location and your character can reasonably  affect the outcome of the roll (such as distracting a monster, shouting  words of encouragement, or otherwise aiding another with the check)."

what came to mind was hollering out : _*"GO FOR THE EYES BOO! GO FOR THE EYES!!"*_

bua ha ha ha ha ha! *ahem* sorry guys.


----------



## Scott DeWar

on an aside, that broken down part of town in the SE corner would make for some excellent ambush effects with wilderness type traps.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Hmmm. Yeah! If only you guys had a Ranger or a Rogue with some trap crafting ability . . .


----------



## Leif

I _know_ you ain't a-talkin' to me!


----------



## Scott DeWar

do you know that for sure?


----------



## Leif

Uhhhhh, no?


----------



## Scott DeWar

i would have burst in gales of mirth, had it not been 0329 hrs local.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Happy New Years!

I've decided to make my GMing a part of my New Years changes this year, in an effort to renew focus and revitalize this game.

I've given up my Serpent's Skull game - still in it's infancy after over a year of play due to a combination of my slackardly ways as a GM and several player changes that made continuity difficult.

I've abandoned my hopes to use RPGWithMe - the site's got great potential, and I love the integration of the character sheets, but it's doesn't seem to be a good fit for this group or this game.

I've also given up my Obsidian Portal paid subscription, and will be moving the repository for this game to a Google Site that seems to be *much* easier to use - both for me and for you guys.

The new site is linked in my sig (it's the "Legacy of Fire" link). Take a look at it - I'm pretty proud of what I've done so far. I'm still tweaking the layout of the character sheets, so please don't make any changes yet. Once I've got them laid out to my satisfaction I'll take care of putting in the initial information, and then you guys can make changes as your characters develop.

I'm also planning to let the "Mercenary" aspect of the game fade into the background - the AP has plenty going on, and it's becoming awkward to keep that going.

Look for the pace to pick back up here in a week or so, depending on how my "back to work" goes this week.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Just remembered I'll actually have to "share" the Google site with you guys. I've got it set up only to share with invited folks so that I can use some Paizo artwork and maps without violating their use policies.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

OK, you guys should all be getting e-mails inviting you to share the site. Leif, I _think_ the invite will be sent to your Yahoo address, but you may (or may not) have to log on to the site through your gmail account (clhpup67@gmail.com). Let me know whether or not it works for you, and if you want me to try to set it up differently.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

A request - I have a detailed background for Tsadok. At some point in all of my switching around and tinkering with the OP site, I've managed to lose track of the back stories for the rest of you.

If you have those in your notes somewhere, I'd appreciate it if you'd send them my way so I can put them on the site. If you don't, it would be all sorts of awesomeness if you'd write a backstory (as much or as little detail as you wish) for me. If you've got your original backstory but want to change it up that's fine as well.

I've got Scott's invite re-sent to his gmail address/account, and I know Leif is already in under his. I'm guessing Mike is in as well, but not certain. David, if you and Mike need me to send the invitation to the Google site to a different address just let me know and I'll change the permissions accordingly.


----------



## Scott DeWar

did you get the message about my Google acct?


----------



## Scott DeWar

FYI: no backstory was ever made for Harnrey. I will need to make one. "H. Drextin - Wizard, Battle conjurer"


----------



## Leif

I don't remember Houwlou's history, but I'm pretty sure that he had one.  Have to get back to you on this one.


----------



## mleibrock

I guess I need you to send it to my google address.  swimmer0049@gmail.com

I can't seem to access it from the hotmail address.


----------



## Scotley

I'm sure I had one for Keeland. Let me see if I can track it down.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Scott DeWar said:


> FYI: no backstory was ever made for Harnrey. I will need to make one. "H. Drextin - Wizard, Battle conjurer"






Leif said:


> I don't remember Houwlou's history, but I'm pretty sure that he had one.  Have to get back to you on this one.






Scotley said:


> I'm sure I had one for Keeland. Let me see if I can track it down.




When y'all find (or write them), e-mail 'em to me, por favor 

Making pretty good progress on the Google Site. I've still got to enter everyone's characters into the sheets, which keeps getting delayed because I keep finding ways to tweak the template. Also working on the "prettiness" of the site - changing the fonts on the headings and such to better reflect the Middle Eastern feel of the game, changing the layouts a little. Mostly just learning about how Google Sites works and improving my HTML skills (very slightly).

Getting excited about the game again at the same time.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I seem to recall some sort of bit and piece of H.'s history. i'll get some sort of something going here shortly . . . .


----------



## Leif

Mowgs, I recall now some story about Houwlou's brother who became 'chief' of their pack becauise his mother was their father's favored consort, and Houwlou's mother was more of a concubine sort of bitch.  Still, Houwlou and this brother were quite close and got along well.  I just can't remember his name to save my life.  I'm hoping this may spur your memory?


----------



## Scott DeWar

Harnrey Drextin - Battle Conjurer.

Born of a father who was a man of the blade and mother, an assistant court magician, he was taught the ways of war and the ways of wizardry. He was taught to use many weapons, but only one really was learned: A battle axe, one that was taken by hos father as a prize from a war in his father's early years. It was a hard win that almost cost Harnrey Sr.'s life, so he claimed it as his, with the permission of his captain for fighting so valiantly. His mother taught hm how to cast spells in battle as she commanded a unit of dweamor knights. He now has taken to the field of battle to earn  a name for himself, which bring us to our young hero's day and time .. .. .. .. .. 

Will this work for you Mowgli?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Leif said:


> Mowgs, I recall now some story about Houwlou's brother who became 'chief' of their pack becauise his mother was their father's favored consort, and Houwlou's mother was more of a concubine sort of bitch.  Still, Houwlou and this brother were quite close and got along well.  I just can't remember his name to save my life.  I'm hoping this may spur your memory?




Ah, yes! Harrgras Groulenas was his brother, now the alpha of his old pack. Not being chosen by his father as "alpha in training" let to bad feelings and Houwlou's leaving the pack. For a few years now he's been making his way as a guide in the Katapeshi wilderness. But Olcán are pack creatures, and Houwlou's been in search of a new "pack" to fill that void. The current group is his new family. I don't remember any more details - feel free to fill them in as you will.



Scott DeWar said:


> Harnrey Drextin - Battle Conjurer.
> 
> Born of a father who was a man of the blade and mother, an assistant court magician, he was taught the ways of war and the ways of wizardry. He was taught to use many weapons, but only one really was learned: A battle axe, one that was taken by hos father as a prize from a war in his father's early years. It was a hard win that almost cost Harnrey Sr.'s life, so he claimed it as his, with the permission of his captain for fighting so valiantly. His mother taught hm how to cast spells in battle as she commanded a unit of dweamor knights. He now has taken to the field of battle to earn  a name for himself, which bring us to our young hero's day and time .. .. .. .. ..
> 
> Will this work for you Mowgli?




It works for me if it works for you. My main goal is to renew the sense of the characters as whole people - with personalities, goals and quirks - rather than collections of numbers and stats that are of no use other than in a fight.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> Ah, yes! Harrgras Groulenas was his brother, now the alpha of his old pack. Not being chosen by his father as "alpha in training" let to bad feelings and Houwlou's leaving the pack. For a few years now he's been making his way as a guide in the Katapeshi wilderness. But Olcán are pack creatures, and Houwlou's been in search of a new "pack" to fill that void. The current group is his new family. I don't remember any more details - feel free to fill them in as you will.



Harrgras's mother was more favored than Houwlou's, so he ascended above Houwlou in the pecking order, even though he is slightly younger than Houwlou., to say nothing of Houwlou's far superior hunting and tracking skills.


----------



## Scotley

I haven't been able to find a copy of Keeland yet. Got one more place to check this evening. You would not believe how many characters I have created over the years. Just the ones for Pathfinder. Dozens.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I literally woke from sleep remembering the bit about the axe.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*Progress Update*

Double Post.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*Progress Update*

Work's coming along nicely on the Google Site. Got the "Supporting Cast" and "Notable Villains" pages finished up, as well as the "Party Loot Log."

"The Players," "Journals" and "Library" are also complete, with currently used maps and my House Rules in the Library.

I've also finished entering Harnry and Houwlou's characters. To keep the character sheets simple, I'm listing weapons by type (Longsword, BattleAxe, etc) with a notation in the "Other" column to indicate what variations (+1, MW, etc) the character has. Numbers for attack, damage, etc. do *NOT* include modifiers for these variations.

One of the cool things about this template is that there are a LOT of useful links to specific pages on the d20PFSRD site - check the bottom of the sidebar for these. They make a very handy way to reference some commonly used rules (such as you'd find on a GM Screen) quickly.


----------



## Scott DeWar

I only have two things. so far . . . . . 

1. Could you add under weapons: [Ranged touch attack +4/ damage varies] ?

2. I thought you told Mike l. that the con drain was gone via spells, and I saw Harnrey still had his. Shouldn't his be cured by now too?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I could, or you could. I've set the permissions for each of you to be able to edit your sheets (so you can make the changes at level up). Just click the little pencil button at the top right of the page, put your cursor in the box and type.
That's entirely possible. Now that you mention it I do think I recall you guys buying some scrolls to take care of it.


----------



## Scott DeWar

1. Done

2. done


----------



## Scott DeWar

*question for all*

Next thought: Can Harnrey claim the Brooch of shielding?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I followed up on the Conditions - took the temporary score from the stats box, changed the CON modifier and added HP and Fort Save back in (on both Harnry and Houwlou).

Rather than call out Ranged Touch Attack specifically, I added "Basic Melee" and "Basic Ranged" attacks to both Harnry and Houwlou's weapons blocks.



Scott DeWar said:


> Next thought: Can Harnrey claim the Brooch of shielding?




That, of course, is entirely between you and your fellow party members .


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> That, of course, is entirely between you and your fellow party members .



The Brooch of Shielding of no use to Houwlou, but he would appreciate a similar consideration from Harnrey in the future.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Next thought: Can Harnrey claim the Brooch of shielding?





Mowgli said:


> That, of course, is entirely between you and your fellow party members .



It is of no use to Houwlou, but he would appreciate a similar consideration from Harnrey in the future.


----------



## Scotley

Scott DeWar said:


> Next thought: Can Harnrey claim the Brooch of shielding?




Keeland has no objection.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> It is of no use to Houwlou, but he would appreciate a similar consideration from Harnrey in the future.




Dont you have 2 magic weapons worth 4600 and a bit together? A dagger and a long sword? I see this as a form of  . . . . .armor.


----------



## mleibrock

FYI, I just landed another huge account that will most likely affect my posting come the beginning of Feb.  I'm not sure how much it will affect me yet so I don't want to bail but just a heads up, that might be necessary.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

No more bailing allowed! I know, we're moving at such a rapid pace you're already having trouble keeping up . . . suck it up, brother, and hang in there!

(Congratulations, though! New money coming in is awesome these days!)


----------



## Leif

Congrats.  Gotta get your priorities straight, however -- D&D and ENWorld are FIRST, then women, then food and beer (these two are interchangeable, depending on whether you're hungry or thirsty), THEN work.  And "Account?"  More dolphins to swim with?  More swimmers to coach?  More algae to clean off tanks?  More bikini babes to save from those hellacious riptides on Lake Michigan?


----------



## mleibrock

I Know...  unfortunately it's not bikini clad babes, and this "Account" is gonna make me a LOT more dough to support those other habits of bourbon, food and women, all of which I like to partake.    Good thing Todd is not around to hear me, he would be disgusted.  



Leif said:


> Congrats.  Gotta get your priorities straight, however -- D&D and ENWorld are FIRST, then women, then food and beer (these two are interchangeable, depending on whether you're hungry or thirsty), THEN work.  And "Account?"  More dolphins to swim with?  More swimmers to coach?  More algae to clean off tanks?  More bikini babes to save from those hellacious riptides on Lake Michigan?


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> I Know...  unfortunately it's not bikini clad babes, and this "Account" is gonna make me a LOT more dough to support those other habits of bourbon, food and women, all of which I like to partake.    Good thing Todd is not around to hear me, he would be disgusted.



What do you mean??  Todd likes money as much as anybody, and more than most!


----------



## mleibrock

LOL


----------



## Scott DeWar

Well, saving bikini babes is rather high on the list. Above beer and food, I would say.


----------



## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> Well, saving bikini babes is rather high on the list. Above beer and food, I would say.



Valid point, sir!


----------



## Scotley

I heard a rumor Todd will be rejoining us some time today. So maybe he will comment.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

*State of the Game Update*

Got all of the character sheets completed on the Google Site (w/ the exception of a back story for Keeland).

I've been reading through the adventure again to "reconnect." I've also been trying to figure out exactly what our sticking point is. I _think_ I've got it, but I'm not sure. I think I haven't been very clear about the tactical situation, and about what I need from y'all.

You guys want to set up some ambush points (one after another, if I understand correctly, until either the patrols are gone or they're all coming after you _en masse_). The problem is that I can't just take a vague "look for a good place to set up an ambush" statement and move forward. There's a reasonably good map in the Library on the Google Site. Here's a direct link (that should work) for your convenience. It's the same one from the OP site, but I've added a few labels of places Houwlou and Tsadok _might_ have noted in the scouting expedition. I need for you guys to pick a spot on the map for your first ambush site, or a specific area or building to explore with an eye to setting up the ambush - as you'd expect, some of them have encounters already set. The map shows you pretty much exactly what you can see from the temple using Almah's spyglass, so you can be reasonably sure the areas with walls but no ceilings are empty. The buildings with intact roofs you don't know about.

It's not a jam packed city with alleyways and cul-de-sacs - every building in the city is on the map. So let me know specifically where you want to go and what you want to do, and we'll get you there and see what happens.


----------



## mleibrock

Mike,

There is a building just north of the one labeled Peryton.  It's on the east side of the river.  Can you describe the exterior and surroundings?   I don't think we wanted to go into the city just yet.  The plan is to pick off some of the patrols out here where we might have numbers on them.

I tried to save the image to put some markings on the image but I can't seem to save the image as a true jpg from the google site so I have to describe it.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Have to head out for work in a minute, but I'll get you a description of the exterior and surroundings sometime today or this evening. You won't know what's inside until you actually go in . . .

Don't be scared to use the areas where there are just walls, either. Well, be a little scared - you've seen something flying around a few times a day, but you don't know what it is; it's possible it would see you and alert Kardswann to your presence. Or it may be just a critter living in the town and not Kardswann's ally . . .


----------



## mleibrock

Hey,  What happened to that description?    The night free to myself and I can't even game?  Pshaw!


----------



## Leif

What's the definition of 'pshaw' anyway?


----------



## mleibrock

Not really sure there is one.  It's from a novel I read in H.S. - The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.  Best I can tell it's a word expressing exasperation. 


Leif said:


> What's the definition of 'pshaw' anyway?


----------



## Leif

mleibrock said:


> Not really sure there is one.  It's from a novel I read in H.S. - The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.  Best I can tell it's a word expressing exasperation.



I remember _The Heart is a Lonely Hunter_ by Carson McCullers!  That is not where 'pshaw' originated , though.  I've seen it in numerous other places, and I was just joking around, anyway.  "Exasperation" is the essence of "pshaw," I believe, so you're absoluely right!


----------



## mleibrock

Well... In my little world, it's where it originated.  .


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

I think I remember pshaw from _To Kill a Mockingbird_. But I could be wrong - that was a LONG time ago 

Working on the description now. Sorry - got busy at work, then after got busy as well.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

In the meantime, here's a picture of Kelmarane that might give a little better understanding of the layout, when combined (in your minds) with the map. It shows the elevation change along the road winding up the hill from the south.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> I think I remember pshaw from _To Kill a Mockingbird_. But I could be wrong - that was a LONG time ago




Google revealed this:

pshaw  /(p)SHô/

Exclamation

An expression of contempt or impatience.

Verb

Utter such an exclamation: "when I suggested that free trade might dilute Canadian culture, he pshawed".


----------



## Scotley

Hmmmm, looks like we should stash some barrels we'll padded with straw near the center of town. If we get into trouble we could jump in and roll our way to freedom. Might be a little bumpy, but I can't think of a faster escape until we get to _Teleport_ levels.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> .. .. .. .. .. Might be a little bumpy, but I can't think of a faster escape until we get to _Teleport_ levels.




[ooc[hmmm teleport is conjuration, Harnrey is a conjurer .. .. .. .. ..[/ooc]


----------



## mleibrock

Beautiful artwork!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

mleibrock said:


> Beautiful artwork!




Yeah, Paizo hires some great artists for their stuff. It took me several looks to get the elevation changes in my head when viewing the overhead map - hope this helps!


----------



## mleibrock

It's definitely helpful.


----------



## Scott DeWar

love it!


----------



## Leif

Mowgli's first IC post today, Saturday, March 2, 2013, was made entirely too bleeding early for a Saturday morning.  I think the big guy needs a vaction.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Ah, but posting IS my vacation . . .

Couldn't sleep last night - by the time I made that post I'd been up for almost two hours .


----------



## Scotley

I will be traveling this weekend to compete in my other favorite game (Bridge) and I will not be posting until early next week. Please npc Keeland as needed. Hope everyone has a great weekend.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Thanks for the heads up, and good luck!


----------



## Scott DeWar

Please take note, I will be AFK pretty much all day tomorrow as I will be in surgery. Thank you.

Scott DeWar


----------



## Leif

Tsadok and Harpy sittin' in a tree
k-i-s-s-i-n-g


----------



## mleibrock

LOL.

Thanks Leif, that humor made my morning!



Leif said:


> Tsadok and Harpy sittin' in a tree
> k-i-s-s-i-n-g


----------



## Leif




----------



## Scott DeWar

That was hilarious!


----------



## Scotley

I am off on a little fall break um break, so I won't be posting much until next weekend.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Well,  THAT'S gonna slow us down


----------



## Leif

Don't you just love a sensitive GM?


----------



## Scott DeWar

down to the speed of a sprinting slug. Oh wait, That's a speed increase!


----------



## Leif

What gives, Mowgs?  We gonna play here, or what?  I know, I know, I have no room to talk, my Whirtlestaff's game is also languishing.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

We are *absolutely* gonna play here! I've actually been thinking about this game quite a bit lately. Not doing anything with it, mind you, but thinking about it. I have *no* intention of abandoning the brave mercenaries in the gnoll infested town of Kelmarane! I've just got to get that jump-start from thinking to doing.


----------



## Scotley

I am here and ready to continue when you make the transition from thinking to doing.


----------



## Scott DeWar

tap tap tap tap . . . . . I never left.


----------



## Leif

Did I understand you correctly, Mowgs, that you're going to have a Kickstarter to rejuvenate this game? 

Ehh, kickstarter, jumpstarter, is there really a difference?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Hmmm. I wonder if I could run a Kickstarter and make enough money to live on for a year or so in order to devote 40 hour work weeks exclusively to "A Merc's Life?"


----------



## Scotley

Unless my fellow players have suddenly come into money, I fear you are gonna need to expand the game significantly just to get to minimum wage. I think our average contribution split five ways would be somewhere around 3k. I expect you are going to have difficulty keeping the baby in diapers at minimum wage anyway. In other words, don't quit your day job.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> - lots of words -  In other words, don't quit your day job.



what he said!


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Dang! What a bunch of "Debbie Downers!"


----------



## Scott DeWar

Nope, just bluntly honest.


----------



## Leif

Mowgli said:


> Dang! What a bunch of "Debbie Downers!"



at least we're not "Betty Buttkissers!"


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Yep, that would be worse fer sure!


----------



## Scott DeWar

So, would the opposite be utopiac uppers?


----------



## Leif

*Houwlou*

I'm trying to get H all copied-over to M-W, but I can't seem to find a character sheet for him on ENW!  Horrors!


----------



## Scotley

Leif said:


> I'm trying to get H all copied-over to M-W, but I can't seem to find a character sheet for him on ENW!  Horrors!




We are on www.obsidianportal.com for this one. Our estimable DM is always looking for interesting alternatives.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Yeah, we started on OP. They've made significant changes to their site layout, and screwed up a lot of my hard work with formatting so I ended up dropping my paid membership there.

One reason for my desired switch to MythWeavers is their "one-stop-shopping." Integrated character sheets and dice roller, a good organizational system, and an integrated wiki. The site stability didn't hurt either. My hope is to move everything related to this game there and eliminate having to look in different places for different things.


----------



## Scott DeWar

Everything at one stable place is a big plus.

+​


----------



## Scott DeWar

oh, hey. can you link me to Harnrey? I can' na fine him uny where.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Yessir. I'll put the links in the OOC thread on "that other site (MW)."

We need to move discussions over there, I think, as it seems a little tacky to talk here about our game over there.


----------



## Leif

I need some help, too, Mowgs.  Seems I can't recall the proper log-in info for OP.  I tried to log-in with my facebook account, but that wasn't working right either, and I know that I remember the proper log-in for that site!


----------



## Scotley

If you can remember your google password Mike did a set up on a google site too. He's nothing if not through. 

https://sites.google.com/a/clanpatterson.net/a-merc-s-life---legacy-of-fire/the-par/party-loot-log


----------



## Scott DeWar

I had to reset my password. All I needed was my login name and the registered e mail.


----------



## Maidhc O Casain

Mowgli said:


> We need to move discussions over there, I think, as it seems a little tacky to talk here about our game over there.




A Merc's Life OoC Main Thread


----------



## Leif

Scotley said:


> If you can remember your google password Mike did a set up on a google site too. He's nothing if not through.
> 
> https://sites.google.com/a/clanpatterson.net/a-merc-s-life---legacy-of-fire/the-par/party-loot-log






Scott DeWar said:


> I had to reset my password. All I needed was my login name and the registered e mail.





I have responded in the OOC on M-W.


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## Scott DeWar

https://mercenaries.obsidianportal.com/characters/harnry-drextin

http://www.myth-weavers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29375&tg=42347

I have put this here temporary for records.


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## Scott DeWar

Soooo, . . . .  Myth Weavers?


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## Maidhc O Casain

Nope - not any more. Game was archived for lack of posting, and I gave it up. Just didn't seem like anyone was very interested, or had much time. I took too long getting it going again, I think, and folks (including me) lost their way.


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## Scott DeWar

Sooooo, . . . .  does it still have a spark of life in it?


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## Maidhc O Casain

I'm thinking not, at this point. It's gasped its last.


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## Scotley

Yeah, I liked the adventure and my character, but we let a lot of time pass and moving over to Mythweavers didn't make it any easier for me. Nothing wrong with the site, but having to learn to a different way to do things was just one more reason to put off posting. The fact that life got so busy for me about that time didn't help. But I'm happy to say that things are settling back into something like normal. This week has been pretty good for posting so far. Aside from the usual holiday bustle I expect to be back to something like a regular posting rate. Start something new and I'll be there.


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## Scott DeWar

me too. At least if it is pathfinder, a definite. others are 80-99% sure.


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## Maidhc O Casain

Even if it's on MythWeavers ? I do really like the setup over there for running a game. I'm not likely to run anything other than Pathfinder.


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## Scott DeWar

80-99%


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## Leif

I'll be there on MythWeavers, just send me an invitation.  Seems a shame to consign another game to the scrap heap.  But, ultimately, that's the GM's call to make.   Unless .... _YOU_ want to take over GM duties, DeWar, and let Mike play a character in his own game.


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## Scott DeWar

Sorry, trying to get employed, and not get hurt, and heal up from present injuries.

Indecently, wirttlestaff's heroes is still going, right?


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## Leif

Whirtlestaff's???  Uhhh, hasn't moved in a month or more, I think, but I guess it could go.


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## Scott DeWar

I am not quitting on it, not sure about the other two.


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## Scotley

I can give Mythweavers another shot. I just didn't have the time to devote to figuring it out and so each post was a bit of a chore. With more time I have no doubt I can learn to adapt. I'm certainly good with Pathfinder or 3.5 or 5e. My personal preference is not to start a 1st level. Progress is so slow in play by post being first level for a year or three real time is just too frustrating. It's not a deal breaker, but I thought I'd throw it out there.


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## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> My personal preference is not to start a 1st level. Progress is so slow in play by post being first level for a year or three real time is just too frustrating. It's not a deal breaker, but I thought I'd throw it out there.




agree


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## Leif

I'll go ahead and go on the record as agreeing with this sentiment.  However, I do really like to play a character from 1st level on, letting relationships and personalities develop naturally over time.  

My own idea was to begin a game at first level, play for a few months, through a short dungeon or something, and then skip ahead to third or fourth level, play some more, and then skip ahead again.  Sadly, the idea never became anything more than just an idea.


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## Scott DeWar

Scotley said:


> I can give Mythweavers another shot.




I just went o the mythweaver's sight and It looks like it is up for sale.


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## Maidhc O Casain

I think you must've typed the wrong URL. Or I'm totally in the dark. Haven't seen or heard anything about that, and I'm on over there at least a few times a week.


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## Scotley

Scott DeWar said:


> I just went o the mythweaver's sight and It looks like it is up for sale.




Yeah, you got the addy wrong I'm thinking. Its www.myth-weavers.com if you left out the dash or went to .org you might have gone to an unused URL and thus gotten a message it was for sale.


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## Scott DeWar

forgot the hyphan


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## Maidhc O Casain

Got a decent idea for a campaign floating around in my head and partly on "paper." I'm thinking I'll probably run an advert on MW, with a short application period and a planned start date of January 1. I'll let you guys know and give you a link to the ad when I get it up. If I really get after it I can have the ad up Thursday or Friday, take apps until the 28th and use the last few days of December to decide on a party.

(What the heck am I doing? I'm a _player_, not a DM . . .)


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## Scott DeWar

Any clues on the type of setting?AP or home brew / neutral to good or neutral to evil  city-wilderness -city&wilderness . . . . .


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## Maidhc O Casain

Set on Golarion. I'll set up a pretext for the characters to be together, and run a series of adventures - likely a combination of published stuff and originals. It should run like a TV series - a campaign long story arc for the entire campaign that runs in the background/weaving through the "episodes."


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## Leif

Sounds neat, Mowgs!  i'm excited!  

Yeah, DeWar, those pesky hyphens will get you every time.  Here's the link to M-W, for what it's worth:

www.Myth-Weavers.com


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## Scotley

Sounds like a plan.


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## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> Sounds neat, Mowgs!  i'm excited!
> 
> Yeah, DeWar, those pesky hyphens will get you every time.  Here's the link to M-W, for what it's worth:
> 
> www.Myth-Weavers.com




yup, scotley gave me the same on post 698


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## Maidhc O Casain

I've got the game forum started, though it's still marked "Private" as I'm still working to get it set up the way I'd like.

Once I get it finished I'll make it "Available" and post the advertisement. I'll probably advertise for 6 spots, planning on the three of you taking half of those - but there's a caveat. I'll be posting some expectations in the ad that I'd like for you to look at before you commit. (That sounds somewhat ominous on re-reading . . . they're not that bad, really).

I've been doing some thinking and discussing about things that help games run smoothly and keep their momentum, and about things that make me somewhat less stressed as a GM and keep running the game from feeling like homework. Posting rate and content for the first part, and indulging my need for organization and neatness for the second are the main things I've come up with.

Shout out to   [MENTION=29548]mleibrock[/MENTION]: I haven't mentioned you earlier, but you are surely welcome to this game as well! However, I know how busy you are, and how time consuming this will be (_especially_ at first), so please don't feel pressured or obligated to join us. We're playing in Carrion Crown, and I'm in both your Council of Thieves and your Wrath of the Righteous game so we've got our gaming contact well in hand.


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## mleibrock

Thanks Mike, but you have me pegged correctly right now.  I don't want to commit to another game and not have time for it - so a pass for now.


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## Maidhc O Casain

That's what I figured - no worries! I'm still wondering if I'm crazy, starting another one.


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## Scotley

Mowgli said:


> I've got the game forum started, though it's still marked "Private" as I'm still working to get it set up the way I'd like.
> 
> Once I get it finished I'll make it "Available" and post the advertisement. I'll probably advertise for 6 spots, planning on the three of you taking half of those - but there's a caveat. I'll be posting some expectations in the ad that I'd like for you to look at before you commit. (That sounds somewhat ominous on re-reading . . . they're not that bad, really).
> 
> I've been doing some thinking and discussing about things that help games run smoothly and keep their momentum, and about things that make me somewhat less stressed as a GM and keep running the game from feeling like homework. Posting rate and content for the first part, and indulging my need for organization and neatness for the second are the main things I've come up with.
> 
> Shout out to   [MENTION=29548]mleibrock[/MENTION]: I haven't mentioned you earlier, but you are surely welcome to this game as well! However, I know how busy you are, and how time consuming this will be (_especially_ at first), so please don't feel pressured or obligated to join us. We're playing in Carrion Crown, and I'm in both your Council of Thieves and your Wrath of the Righteous game so we've got our gaming contact well in hand.




I shall eagerly await your terms sir.


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## Leif

Scotley said:


> I shall eagerly await your terms sir.



As shall I.



Mowgli said:


> That's what I figured - no worries! I'm still wondering if I'm crazy, starting another one.



I could chime in here, but it probably wouldn't be advisable for my character's health.


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## Scott DeWar

Leif said:


> I could chime in here, but it probably wouldn't be advisable for my character's health.




You choose  . . . . wisely, grasshopper.


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## Leif

You forgot to call me "Grasshopper."

Now that's what I call responsive!


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## Scott DeWar

fixed it.


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## Maidhc O Casain

OK,     [MENTION=11520]Scotley[/MENTION],     [MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION] and     [MENTION=49929]Scott DeWar[/MENTION] - the ad for my Pathfinder game on MythWeavers is up:

*Fixers, Inc.*

Feel free to pop over and check it out, and if you're still interested after reading it put in an application!


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## Leif

*Mowgs...*

Ok, I am still checking out the char gen procedures for Fixers, Inc., but so far, can I just say --

WOW!

This is NOT your father's PBP!  I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it, yet, but I'm planning to do _some_thing.


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## Scott DeWar

Oh, hey. Been scrawlin over on kahnacadamy.org to get my brain working better. I will now go take a looky look.

example: combine the following:

(-2y^7 - 3y^5) - (3y^5 + 3y^4) + (-4y^4 - 7y^3)

which comes out to :

-2y^7 - 6y^5 - 7y^4 - 7y^3

and that is a simple one.


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## Scotley

I've been cranking away at a character and should have a good draft up by mid-week. I believe I can meet the stringent requirements of posting.


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## Scott DeWar

I am still working on my character. I have had a moment of thought. I am not sure if I want a two weapon fighter or a two handed weapon. Both are really nice difference of choices.


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## Leif

I, on the other hand, am sure that I want a "sword and board" style fighter.


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## Scott DeWar

As I know you guys know I will do as I want anyway, I am curious to know what you guys think.


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## Scotley

Scott DeWar said:


> As I know you guys know I will do as I want anyway, I am curious to know what you guys think.




By two-handed weapon do you mean like a Halberd or Greatsword or a double weapon like a Gnome Hooked Hammer or Dwarven Urgosh? I had a dire flail wielder once that I thought was pretty cool. 

From a pure max damage stand point I gather from what I've read that a two handed weapon with optimal feats wins out. The big burly damage dealer can be fun but feels like a bit of one trick pony to me after a while. This is the easiest to design and implement.

Two-weapon stuff is a little trickier. Using the same weapon in each hand ala Dirztz (sp?) Drow of the twin scimitars gets you the most bang for your feat buck; although, I think Pathfinder doesn't really support a non-light weapon in the off hand perhaps in an intetional slight of one of Wizard's post popular and iconic NPC's? I like the twin short swords myself and have found it quite efficacious. By 4th level you can get the boost of weapon specialization in each hand which more than makes up for the slightly less optimal of the base weapons. Feat costs are always gonna be your biggest problem. You can have a damn fine double dagger wielding rogue if only you can afford the feats to be effective in both melee and ranged while boosting sneak attack damage to the max. Long about 5/6 fighter rogue is the sweet spot for that build when you add specialization, 3d6 sneak attack with special features and improved crit to the mix. Starting at 3rd level in a play by post that's never gonna happen.

I was having an interesting experiment in your ill-fated game with Gorgol the Scourge who fights with a scorpion whip and a long sword. He could do the standard two weapon routine or try using the whip a little further out or to trip. I thought it had potential even thought the second weapon damage was kinda weak if only because he had interesting options. If that game had continued until Gorgol could add weapon specialization and improved two weapon fighting as well as a couple d6 sneak attack he'd have been an ass kicker to be proud of. I don't think Mowgli wants us to reveal too much about our characters for this game, but I will say with cryptic quotation marks that my submitted character will have the option of using two 'weapons'. If you are willing to lay out the feats for an exotic weapon two-weapon fighter the Aklys has some interesting potential, it is a light weapon that can be used at range and does a very respectable d8 damage as well as being a trip and perform weapon. No other standard weapon can match it, some Kobold tail attachments do a d8, but that's pretty limited in application. It also offers the ranged trip. A brawler using kicks or elbows as his primary and the Aklys as his off-hand could have his primary hand free to help retrieve with weapon with its cord (a move action) between attacks. Tripping foes in the second rank could be great fun in those fights were spell casters or archer are protected by a row of melee guys. Indeed, you may well see such a fellow as a villain used against PC's in one of the games I run at a future date. But it would be feat intensive build. You'd need exotic weapon, two-weapon and improved trip as the price of entry. Arguably, the Brawler or monk would not need two weapon. Still, you would want lots of feats to optimize the ranged, two-weapon and melee aspects of the build. Might not be suitable for such a low level game, but long about 8th or 9th level this could be great fun with lots of attacks a round with one ranged and/or trip each round. 

Avoiding exotics you could likely do something interesting mixing say a flail (with the potential for trips and disarms) with a Battle Aspergillam for that splash of special sauce. Add in some light hammers or star knives for the superior range in an off handed throwing weapon (hammers fly better than daggers, clubs or axes? Seems counter intuitive) once you've exhausted your splash.  

So many of the interesting builds are just too feat intensive to be much fun at a game of this level. A human fighter or a fighter of one of the races that gets an exotic double weapon as a martial weapon is about the only way you can make the double weapon thing work and not feel sub-par. The limit of only one trait doesn't help. I've never built a character than I can remember around a double weapon other than the dire flail wielder. I think he was a 3.5 or maybe even 3.0 build. So, my memory is fuzzy at best. I won't say that a cool double weapon dude can't be build I just don't have any real experience with it. It will be all about the feats. I guess you do get the benefit of applying feats like weapon focus and weapon specialization to all your attacks, so there is potential there. 

Even Leif's humble sword and board fighter is gonna be wishing for extra feats when you consider the fun he could have with a highly optimized shield bash and the extra damage of an exotic one handed weapon like a bastard sword or Dwarven war axe. Even without the bash there are a ton of cool shield feats. Especially if he finds a buddy to do some teamwork feats with. 

Anyway, that's likely way more than you were looking for. I should really be working on my own character...


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## Scott DeWar

Great sword or great axe is what I was thinking . . . . now to finish your post . . . .

I am thinking big dude with a big weapon and maybe intimidate to scare someone staring at a very messy ending.


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## Scotley

There are feats that give a free intimidate check when you whack folks, insult them or put on a show that you should check out. Okay, most of these require you to be higher level or specific races and classes, but the names are so evocative I just had to post the whole list. 

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/call-out-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/demoralizing-lash-combat-hobgoblin

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/destructive-persuasion-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dreadful-carnage-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/enforcer-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gory-finish-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gruesome-slaughter-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/intimidating-prowess-combat---final

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/killing-flourish-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/terrorizing-display-combat-hobgoblin

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/warning-shot-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/bullying-blow-combat-orc

Should you chose to focus on Intimidate here is a trait that you might find helpful, most of these would be easy to build a nice back story for the requirement:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/steel-skin

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/omen

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/unnatural-presence-old-cults

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/bruising-intellect

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/bully


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## Leif

Very nice, Scott!  Thanks for the advice, information, and links.  And you sorta read my mind about my fighter, er, or whatever he may really be....


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## Scotley

Leif said:


> Very nice, Scott!  Thanks for the advice, information, and links.  And you sorta read my mind about my fighter, er, or whatever he may really be....




If you want to be a basher you gotta have two-weapon fighting, improved shield bash and at least a 15 DEX (17 is better as you'll want improved two-weapon fighting some day) and at least a 16 STR. Maybe an exotic weapon for the main hand for that extra bit of damage. You have to use a light shield or the penalties for two weapon fighting are pretty onerous. Do check out the quickdraw shield and of course shield spikes. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/quickdraw-shield

If you want to use the shield just as a shield the feat costs are lower and you can really max out AC. Then you'll want traits, feats and class/race features that make opponents attack you. You'll be doing less damage, so your best contribution to the party is to let the bad guys waste all their attacks against  your insanely high AC.

Be sure to check out Missile Shield http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/missile-shield-combat


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## Scotley

Oh and note that in the Ultimate Combat book you will find the option to add the 'throwing' feature to your shield for an extra 50 gp. But you have to take an exotic weapon proficiency in it to use it effectively. I can't imagine this as a particularly good use for an oh so valuable feat. I guess somebody over at Pathfinder went to see the Captain America movies.  You would take a non-proficiency penalty of -4 if throwing your shield without the exotic weapon feat, but hey, for 50 gp it might be worth having the option in a pinch. You never know when having a chance of hitting someone who is otherwise just out of reach could be worth taking a shot even at -4. It is a better missile weapon than a dagger with twice the range and a notch higher damage. You should have a high enough dex and bab as well as the masterwork bonus so what the hell. If you can spare the coin I'd say go for it.


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## Leif

Scotley said:


> If you want to use the shield just as a shield the feat costs are lower and you can really max out AC. Then you'll want traits, feats and class/race features that make opponents attack you. You'll be doing less damage, so your best contribution to the party is to let the bad guys waste all their attacks against  your insanely high AC.



This is what I was thinking.  What traits/feats/features do you suggest?  My plan was to be a human fighter....


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## Scotley

Antagonize http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize is the feat to start with. Any of those traits that boost intimidate that I posted above will then be useful or you can look at ones for diplomacy too. Between those two groups I suspect you'll find one that will give you the roleplay/backstory requirements Mowgli is looking for. If not there might be a shield related trait or two out there though I don't know of any off the top of my head.

Look at stand still http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/stand-still-combat---final which will allow you to jump out in front of the group and limit enemies ability get past you. It does require Combat Reflexes http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-reflexes-combat which you'll likely want anyway if you go for this type of build. 

Combat Patrol http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat will kick in at level five. It basically allow you to threaten a much bigger area which makes Stand Still even more fun. 

Pin Down http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pin-down-combat is great for forcing the bad guys to stay by you, but sadly it doesn't come until 11th level.

There are feats that boost Intimidate and Diplomacy, but I don't think you'll have any to spare for that until later on. 

There are some fighter archtypes to consider too. Armor Master gives up a good bit, but you get some cool abilities from it. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...types/paizo---fighter-archetypes/armor-master

There is also Shielded Fighter http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...s/paizo---fighter-archetypes/shielded-fighter which is arguably more useful if you are going the basher route. 

You should look at Phalanx Soldier http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...es/paizo---fighter-archetypes/phalanx-soldier too. Using a pole arm or a spear as a one handed weapon along with your shield is pretty cool. It gives you a significant damage boost without using a feat on an exotic one handed weapon. Sword and Board is cool, but Halberd and Board is a whole other level of whoop @$$. This guy should carry a reach polearm too. Check out the Lucern Hammer's bonus to sundering the bad guys armor. Reach out and knock somebody's plate mail off before they get close enough to uselessly whack at your shield.   Of course for that you'll want improve sunder, but that's not a bad thing given that it not only makes you better at breaking their stuff, but also makes it harder for them to break yours. It requires Power Attack, which you'll probably want anyway.


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## Scott DeWar

I am going two handed warrior archetype, maybe use great sword with a great axe as a back up, heavy flail and compound long bow for [other weapon needs].


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## Leif

Scotley said:


> Antagonize http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize is the feat to start with. Any of those traits that boost intimidate that I posted above will then be useful or you can look at ones for diplomacy too. Between those two groups I suspect you'll find one that will give you the roleplay/backstory requirements Mowgli is looking for. If not there might be a shield related trait or two out there though I don't know of any off the top of my head.
> 
> Look at stand still http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/stand-still-combat---final which will allow you to jump out in front of the group and limit enemies ability get past you. It does require Combat Reflexes http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-reflexes-combat which you'll likely want anyway if you go for this type of build.
> 
> Combat Patrol http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat will kick in at level five. It basically allow you to threaten a much bigger area which makes Stand Still even more fun.
> 
> Pin Down http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pin-down-combat is great for forcing the bad guys to stay by you, but sadly it doesn't come until 11th level.
> 
> There are feats that boost Intimidate and Diplomacy, but I don't think you'll have any to spare for that until later on.
> 
> There are some fighter archtypes to consider too. Armor Master gives up a good bit, but you get some cool abilities from it. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...types/paizo---fighter-archetypes/armor-master
> 
> There is also Shielded Fighter http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...s/paizo---fighter-archetypes/shielded-fighter which is arguably more useful if you are going the basher route.
> 
> You should look at Phalanx Soldier http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/cor...es/paizo---fighter-archetypes/phalanx-soldier too. Using a pole arm or a spear as a one handed weapon along with your shield is pretty cool. It gives you a significant damage boost without using a feat on an exotic one handed weapon. Sword and Board is cool, but Halberd and Board is a whole other level of whoop @$$. This guy should carry a reach polearm too. Check out the Lucern Hammer's bonus to sundering the bad guys armor. Reach out and knock somebody's plate mail off before they get close enough to uselessly whack at your shield.   Of course for that you'll want improve sunder, but that's not a bad thing given that it not only makes you better at breaking their stuff, but also makes it harder for them to break yours. It requires Power Attack, which you'll probably want anyway.



That _would_ be a neat trick to use a halberd one-handed!  (I think Mowgli is probably limiting us to size M PCs...)


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## Scotley

Leif said:


> That _would_ be a neat trick to use a halberd one-handed!  (I think Mowgli is probably limiting us to size M PCs...)




No it is a feature of that Phalanx soldier build. A human can do it. You give up some stuff, but might be worth it.


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## Scotley

Turns out my intent of having my character done by mid-week was optimistic. I got the nuts and bolts up, but still have to write up the background stuff and buy minor equipment.


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## Leif

Scotley said:


> No it is a feature of that Phalanx soldier build. A human can do it. You give up some stuff, but might be worth it.




cool!


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## Scott DeWar

Sorry, I have let myself get completely en-wrapped with Kahn Acadamy dot org. Will work on it over the weekend.


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## Maidhc O Casain

No worries.


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## Scotley

Okay, I have completed my application and marked it 'done' for your review.


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## Leif

I tried to mark mine 'done' but I couldn't figure out how to change the name of the thread.  Marquan Vissel is pretty much ready to go, though.


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## Scott DeWar

mine is ready too


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## Scott DeWar

Mowgli, I was thinking of this pic for my character:


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## Scott DeWar

But I am thinking this is a better choice:

by the way, the concept of a weapon across the back is really a misnomer. You caannot efficiently draw a weapon that way.


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## Scotley

Leif said:


> I tried to mark mine 'done' but I couldn't figure out how to change the name of the thread.  Marquan Vissel is pretty much ready to go, though.




When you are editing at the bottom select 'go advanced' and the line with the thread name will be available for editing. That works just like over here. I'm still figuring out navigation over there. I finally figured out how to subscribe to the forum rather than just threads. I didn't subscribe to the 'announcements' bit until tonight, so I missed some stuff until just now.


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## Leif

Thanks, Scotley!  I don't know why I couldn't figure that out!

Ok, I did that, and it changed the title in the first post, but back in the Forum page, it's still the old title. :-(  I'm hoping that it will eventually catch up?


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## Maidhc O Casain

Turns out the GM is the only one who can edit the actual thread name.

Thanks for the pic, DeWar - I'll make it a suitable size and put it in your thread. I'll also e-mail you a copy. And yes, I was aware that weapons can't be drawn efficiently over the shoulder. Actually, the weapons most folks put over the shoulder are two handed swords, which can't be drawn at all that way unless you're Mr. Fantastic. Most who used two handed weapons just carried them in their hands, I think.

Scotley, I know you got your character sheet filled in - Leif and DeWar, were you guys able to find the link and get that done as well?

I'm going to try to walk the line between being rational and being a format nazi in the posting, because having all of the posts follow the same guidelines makes it MUCH easier for me to tell what's going on at a glance. Easiest way I've found is to just quote your last post rather than starting a new one each time you're posting. Change what needs changing, and carry on.

EDIT: OK, I got your pictures resized and inserted into your applications (Leif and DeWar). Both of them are pretty damn cool! I still need at least a LITTLE something on each of your personalities, though you can leave much of it to figure out as you play.

Leif, I still need a background for Marquan - a couple of short paragraphs about how he got where he is with some explanation of how he got the trait you chose, how he met Moyra and why he's loyal to her.


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## Scotley

*Sabri*

I found an okay pic for my character.


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## Scott DeWar

is that a Damascus steel blade?  I will think on the personality. I have been thinking on it as a bit of a gritty attitude toward ogres and giants. He would not take t to a racial hatred as he hopes to find those who are not blood thirsty animals, but is not naive to be guarded against them. that is a foundation for a personality, anyway.


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## Leif

I thimk I  got it all done now.

Cool picture, Scotley!

DeWar, my dude, Marquan Vissel, also hates giants -- comes from his service in the Angry Giant Wars, where he was a junior officer.

Mowgli:  I forgot to choose a trait!


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## Scott DeWar

Mowgli, are we allowed to talk about specifics on our characters? Is there a specific reason for those separate threads? I ask this before I mention something I shouldn't about my character.


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## Maidhc O Casain

The pregame threads are for players to start getting a "feel" for their characters, and for me to have more information about writing styles, ability to interact with others, leave conversation hooks, etc. I've got them separated to keep them from becoming too much of a jumbled mess - I've got 39 completed applications (counting you three), and there'd be no way to keep track of who was talking with whom if I lumped everyone into one thread. I also had some vague notions of putting all of the similar character concepts into the same thread and choosing one from each thread, but that's not going to work out due to the way the apps are playing out.


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## Scott DeWar

*39 APPS!?!?* wow. ok, then

Leif, My character is a just a plain fighter with the 2 handed warrior archetype. He is from the highlands where our commander was fighting giant types when my character was still young. His parents ran a local hunt guide/farm that was over run by the aforementioned giant types but not with out going down with out a fight. The commander could not reach the farm in time but was able to save my character after both parents were killed. She took him under her wing teaching him in the way of the company to eventually join and become one of her fixers.

I have given him good strength and put some points in survival, stealth and perception to show his training in being a hunting guide. other skills he learned from previously experienced adventures with the rest of the fixers include quite a variety, but as a scout type of group, I put a lot of effort in the stealth. I have a +12. sound good?


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## Leif

Sounds good to me, DeWarski (greetings to Hutch, BTW).  I think our two fighters may just be different enough that we could possibly both make the cut, if we're lucky.  My guy is a sword-and-board kind of fighter.  A BIG OL' board, at that.  I've never played a character who uses a tower shield before, so this is new for me.  I also referenced The Giant Wars in my guy's background -- my dude was an officer in them and developed a bit of a reputation as a butcher for his unwillingness to retreat*.  He was only doing what he saw as his job, however.  He has a +DiddleySquat for Stealth, but he's pretty much he**-on-wheels with a bastard sword, and hard as he** to hit, too, behind a breastplate and tower shield, both enchanted mildly.

* Why would he retreat if the enemy was unable, mostly, to lay a grubby finger on him?


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## Leif

Is recruitment still open, Mowgs?  No telling how many you'll get before it's all over.  Your separate threads method keeps anyone from becoming discouraged by the number of applications, which was, I guess, your plan all along.  Pretty smart.  Kudos to you!  On the other hand, you may have to cut recruitment off shortly to maintain your tenuous grip on sanity.


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## Leif

DeWar, I have dubbed the giant wars our characters were involved with the Angry Giant Wars, if that's acceptable to you.  If you have something better, I'll happily change over to your name for it.

Not sure what you're thinking -- did our characters serve together in the wars?  Was your fighter a soldier under my character's command?  Or was my character a junior officer under your character's command?  Did we originate in the same town or whatever?  Have we gone from the wars straight to Moyra's Mavens, or was there some 'downtime' in there between the two?  I figure my dude stayed in the army for some downtime (if there was any), until he got fed-up and headed to the Mavens.


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## Leif

DeWar, FYI:  My character, "Sword Lieutenant Marquan Vissel, became known as something of a butcher in the Angry Giant Wars when he refused to allow his soldiers to retreat in the face of a clearly superior force of Stone Giants led by a Fire Giant.  His unit was on the extreme right flank, and he knew that if his force was routed, the Giants would turn the flank of the army and so ensure their victory that day.  His action resulted in very high casualties among his force, but the line held and the humans carried the day.  Still, to some in under his command, Lieutenant Marquan Vissel gained the title of "The Butcher" that day.  Marquan is understanably sensitive about this, and hates to be called The Butcher.  He refused the award of a medal for his action that day."

      [MENTION=29558]Mowgli[/MENTION], I'd like for you to please add this [in quotes above] to the Myth-Weavers post for Marquan, preferably nested in another spoiler ["The Butcher"] at the end of his Background information?  Pretty please?


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## Scott DeWar

I was thinking My character, Jaque . . .  Aw heck, here's what I have:

In his home was a variety of things: farm implements, mountain climbing equipment, hunting equipment. These were all tucked away in a mountain cavern where their home was built at the entrance. The ranch raised sheep and cattle, that is the main stay of the family. However Jaque and his father were hunters, hunting food creatures and hazards alike.

There was an incursion of ogres in the highlands that were being watched by his father and he. They were also being monitored by the mercenary company as well. it was during an attack of these strangely unified creatures that the parents were killed, regretfully.

The boss had just liberated a patrol of their unjust gains while the ogres were attacking a farmstead owned by a local hunter. he had fought valiantly to protect his wife and 10 year old son, but the boss's scrimish line could not break through and save the parents. His last dying words were to raise his son to fight for her, His only available payment for trying to save the family. What the ogres had not destroyed she payed in Jaque's training and equipment. The boy became a young man and continues to fight for the mercenaries.

 . . . . .Basically, he was young, 7 years in the past. I am not sure He would have been in a unit such as "Butcher's boys"


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## Maidhc O Casain

Forty one completed apps, another 20 to 25 that have been started and may or may not be completed by Thursday. I'm still getting a few new ones trickling in daily. I'm obligated by forum etiquette to leave the applications open until my originally stated date - others have closed recruitment early, but that seems like bad form to me and I think I read in the forum rules that it's frowned upon. There are a lot of really good ones too - gonna be hard as heck to choose.

Yeah, keeping the applications private served a few different purposes. The major two were keeping folks from getting discouraged by looking at the ad and seeing a bazillion applications, and getting folks to apply with what they want to play, rather than trying to play the numbers game and just apply with a class that there weren't too many of already.

The pre-game IC threads should give me a good idea of who can follow posting etiquette and my format-Nazism, and which characters will drive me crazy if I have to read them every day. Should also give me an idea about who can post a conversation that allows others to play as well by putting in conversation hooks, etc.

I still need a couple of things from Leif and DeWar - 

First, SDeWar - what the heck is your character's name?

Second, I'll need both of you to click on the "Sheets" tab at the top of any MW forum page you visit and fill out a character sheet. Once you get them filled in, go down toward the bottom to the "Stat Block" section. If you hover over the black border you'll see it turn to "Generate Statblock." Click it, and your characters stat block will be inserted there. Copy that in it's entirety, and post it into the "Stat Block" spoiler in your application. There'll be a link in that stat block back to your sheet.

I did go ahead and mark your applications done and assigned you to pre-game IC threads so you can go ahead and start some interaction.


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## Scotley

I got a post up. Hope I got the formatting down. I did manage to include a pic.


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## Leif

Planning to get my character sheet filled soon.  I was going to do it just now, but I got distracted by posting again, trying to prevent more bloodshed in The Quiet Woman.


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## Scott DeWar

almost done with my block of math in Kahn Acadamy

By the way, my character's first name is Jacques. Never came up with a last name yet. He might choose the name of someone with in the unit who was a father figure to him.


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## Scott DeWar

interesting question on this math thing I am doing: a dollar bill is .0001 meters thick. the national debt is 16 trillion dollars. how high would a stack of dollar bills be. answer in scientific notation
(.0001) = 1 * 10^-4; 1 trillion is 1 * 10^12 so, 
(1*10^4 ) (1.6*10^13) = a stack of bills 1.6 * 10^9 meters tall. That is our national debt.
1.6*10^9 meters = 1.6 * 10^6 Km; 1 Km = .62 miles or 6.2 * 10^-1, so
1.6 * 10^6 / 6.2 * 10^-1 = .258 * 10^7 miles or 2.58 * 10^6 or 

2,580,645 miles tall stack of $1.00 bills

if I did it right


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## Leif

Scott DeWar said:


> almost done with my block of math in Kahn Acadamy
> 
> By the way, my character's first name is Jacques. Never came up with a last name yet. He might choose the name of someone with in the unit who was a father figure to him.



Or you could give a nod to masonic tradition by naming him Jacques DeMolay!  You might find a horse's head in your bed if you do so, though....


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## Scott DeWar

Well, I know nothing of the people of the Illuminati or free masons.


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## Leif

I know just enough to possibly get myself into trouble.


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## Scotley

Wasn't DeMolay a Templar? Or am I getting my history confused? The free masons claimed some connection to the Templars didn't they? Is that the reference you are making?


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## Leif

Scotley said:


> Wasn't DeMolay a Templar? Or am I getting my history confused? The free masons claimed some connection to the Templars didn't they? Is that the reference you are making?



1. Possibly, or rather, probably.  
2, No.  
3. Yes.  
And, 
4. Yes, well, one of them.

This all gained widespread popularity when Tom Hanks made his movie "The DaVinci Code" and its sequel(s), "Angels and Demons" and so forth.  Before that, it was a bit more obscure, but a college buddy of mine (Shane) turned me on to a previous book, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," written in the 1970's by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln.  Lincoln or Leigh (not sure which one) appears in the History Channel's program about The Davinci Code -- he's the old, fat guy who chain smokes, much like the aforementioned Shane, and there is a disturbing amount of resemblance there.  "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" reads more like a history text, which it basically is, but it tells generally the same story as "The DaVinci Code" without all the modern-day characters and plot, which is to say that it's a decidedly uninteresting DaVinci Code.  However, history majors like me eat that s**t up.


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## Scott DeWar

Ok, I am going to get to the Myth weavers game tonight. Right after Person of interest. 

for starters, a last name for Jack, er I mean Jacques, and no, Custoe is not going to be it. Maybe De Monet, as in Count De Monet. ok, simple name: Jacques Skillington, Highland big game hunter. Special needs task force.



> The pre-game IC threads should give me a good idea of who can follow posting etiquette and my format-Nazism, and which characters will drive me crazy if I have to read them every day. Should also give me an idea about who can post a conversation that allows others to play as well by putting in conversation hooks, etc.
> 
> I still need a couple of things from Leif and DeWar -
> 
> First, SDeWar - what the heck is your character's name?
> 
> Second, I'll need both of you to click on the "Sheets" tab at the top of any MW forum page you visit and fill out a character sheet. Once you get them filled in, go down toward the bottom to the "Stat Block" section. If you hover over the black border you'll see it turn to "Generate Statblock." Click it, and your characters stat block will be inserted there. Copy that in it's entirety, and post it into the "Stat Block" spoiler in your application. There'll be a link in that stat block back to your sheet.
> 
> I did go ahead and mark your applications done and assigned you to pre-game IC threads so you can go ahead and start some interaction.




and now for the rest. . . . . .


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## Scott DeWar

Mowgli, I am reading the ic thread and filling in a player sheet, just so you know. I had to take a break from the Kahn Acadamy. iI was getting a nasty headache from reading and thinking so hard. The math skills work has been good for me, but I needed a rest from reality.


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## Scott DeWar

Well, I made my entrance, and I am working on on the character sheet still.


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## Maidhc O Casain

Fair enough, DeWar. I just closed recruiting at 45 completed apps. One app outstanding that looked finished but whose author didn't let me know. I'm giving him a chance to let me know before I lock his app and archive it.

Now I start wading through apps for mechanics, and reading along on IC threads. Trying to "Pick 6."


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## Leif

Sorry Mowgs, I've still got to do the M-W sheet.  I just forgot about it today.


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## Maidhc O Casain

Well, you've got a little time, sir.


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## Leif

Almost got it done last night.  Gotta buy rest of gear and spend skill points.


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## Leif

Ok, Marquan Vissel is all skilled-up, his character sheet of M-W is completed, complete with pic, and all that's left to do is buy everything except armor and shield.  I had his AC wrong -- turns out that a tower shield is the only shield with a max dex.


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## Leif

Scratch that -- max dex for a tower shield is +3, which is all that Marquan has, so he's back to his former AC.


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## Scott DeWar

Mowgli, just to let you know: I have exited the tavern.


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