# Considering a Clone Wars SAGA game



## fireinthedust (Sep 22, 2010)

This is to gauge interest in a Clone Wars SAGA edition Star Wars game.  I've got the books, may as well use them!  And I've had a campaign idea for some time, and no group to play in RL with.


The plot: you would be one member of an elite squad of special ops working for the Republic.  You could be Jedi, Clone troopers, Bounty hunters (misc), or Nobles.  Regardless, your group gets tough assignments most clone units can't handle alone, and you've got a wide range of expertise.  If you were in the 1980s you'd be the A-team meets GIJoe, but with Jedi and Star Wars tropes.

You work under a General, a Jedi Master; and you have access to vehicles, ships and squads of clone troopers when needed, and can even lead them into battle.  You also have access to the available resources of the cruiser you're on.

I think I'd like to start at level 3 or so, and move forward from there.  Between adventures, time and XP could happen; but the action might flow really fast between them, with one leading immediately into another with no break.  I don't know.  I'd like to focus on particular missions during the group's career, throw some wrenches into the group's expectations, and see what we can come up with.


I don't want to lead the group through every encounter.  I don't want players to feel like this is the GM show, but that they have things to do here as well.

What do you think?


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## Insight (Sep 22, 2010)

I call Hutt Jedi...


.... just kidding


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## Shayuri (Sep 22, 2010)

So...if we play a Jedi, are we doomed to die at the end?


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## Songdragon (Sep 22, 2010)

fireinthedust... Sounds most interesting. I would be up to joining in this. 

As to what I would want to play... I do have a gunslinger idea that I have been interested in. Not sure how much that would fit into a militarily minded group. Especially if I used the most recent gungan version. Not really interested in a jedi... Currently playing a force user (here on forums), that is fun.

What are you considering for character creation? Any house rules or alternative rules that you will be using? Also, what kind of posting are you looking at?

I will think on a few concepts and post back later in the day.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 22, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> So...if we play a Jedi, are we doomed to die at the end?





You mean Order 66?  Well, most Jedi did die, but others were hunted down later by the Empire, and still others survived in hiding; which you know.  So no, you won't be auto-killed by me if Order 66 does come up.  I might end the adventure, then start a new adventure thread to see if folks want to continue on from that point; or ask what their character would do.  Then break out the Dark Times book I have...

this is pbp, however, and my current 5-room dungeon game has been going for several months and we're only now at the end.  I have low hopes that pbp games will last; the best one I've ever seen had other players abandon the GM even after bonding, even at the last encounter of the game, in a way that stil baffles me.  The GM then left the boards, and I wish him well.  My game, oddly, is surviving, and is nowhere near as much pure fun as that one, so you never know.


Jedi:  no force wizards.  They're boring to GM.  I really want lightsabre battles with Sith, with some Force powers; but I had a wizard in the last game I tried to run pick up and pin the giant robot I'd attacked the group with, which kinda broke the game.  Ugh.  I do enjoy making up Darksiders, though, and I'd like to try out a Jedi battle at some point.


Gunslingers:  Um, would he be recruited by the Republic?  Then let's talk.


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## Insight (Sep 22, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Jedi:  no force wizards.  They're boring to GM.  I really want lightsabre battles with Sith, with some Force powers; but I had a wizard in the last game I tried to run pick up and pin the giant robot I'd attacked the group with, which kinda broke the game.  Ugh.  I do enjoy making up Darksiders, though, and I'd like to try out a Jedi battle at some point.




I'd like to submit an idea for a Jedi who's primarily a lightsaber duelist.  The Jedi is most talented with swordplay, which didn't sit well with the passivist Jedi Masters at the academy.  With all hell breaking loose in the Republic, the duelist Jedi now sees an opportunity to use his or her talents to their utmost.  The Jedi character sees joining a Republic strike force as a way to get into the heat of battle, rather than staying back and waiting for things to happen.


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## Padreigh (Sep 22, 2010)

I would also like to get a chance to try out SAGA. Got loads of the books at home, but never had a chance to try it out. 

But I wouldn't be able to come up with a character before Monday (my books and I are currently about 800 km apart).


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## Rainmar (Sep 22, 2010)

If there is a free place left I would be happy to join.

My idea is a Republic Commando with emphasis in stealth, disabling electronics and long range sharp shooting. Infiltration unit


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## fireinthedust (Sep 22, 2010)

Sounds great to me.

What do we think of levels?  I'd like to get a handle on the level of the game.  For my PF games I play E6 (ie: you level up to 6 and then get a feat at every 5000xp instead of levelling further); the idea is that they're within the realm of human achievement.  I don't scale DCs to the characters, I scale to the situation.

For PF and 3e, 6 is Epic level.  Aragorn might be 6th, ditto the knights of the round table.  

However: what is the average human capacity in SAGA?  I think it assumes the droids and clones are far lower in level than the Jedi; knights are at least 7th level, same thing with Bounty Hunters.  

Your thoughts?  we'll be playing together for several months, so let's start tlaking and thinking about it.  I will be scaling challenges to you, and I don't take it easy: common sense and problem solving are likely a part of the game, as well as tactics and adventure.  I don't make impossible scenarios, but they might not seem that way while in there.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 22, 2010)

Rainmar:  sounds great, let's see some ideas.  Are we thinking Clone trooper, or a non-clone military type?

Insight: brilliant.  There is a Jedi sub-culture of like-minded knights and masters who really like their swordplay; various forms and schools of such.  Perhaps your Jedi has a friendly rivalry or three?


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## Rainmar (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, that's some interesting rule setting you propose here and I'm fine with it, moreover I look forward to how it will look in practise.

Well, I would suspect that average human or alien(with regard to special race features) are lvl 1's. Then up with those with special training or those living in tough enviroments. Then specialists and then Jedi/Sith. About robots/androids its up to designer. Lovely C 3P0 is lvl 1 I think , and Destroyer(the one with force field bubble and twin blasters) is much more higher. Or meyby you would like to customize opponents regardless of lvl?

About my guy, well I imagined him to be specially made from lil for combat and covert ops. Something a line of Clone Trooper, but made without en masse thought like regular clone troopers, and designated for something of much greater lvl....elite . Also who knows, meyby he was  picked from mass of clone samples becuase he showed some special traits? Better eyesinght? Flawless hand-eye coordination? Abover average agillitiy? 

I envision him to be wearing some sort light power armor which would help him conceal himself(yeach, i admit, i like predator movies  and ghost's from Starcarft series too ), being trained in electronic warfare and cherry picking using long mean rifle...all you need when an big army is not enough to win 

I will think more about his history and stuff and post is when im done.

P.S. What kind of books are we using? I have some StarWars d20 somewhere....and recently found some supplememnts about Clone Wars SAGA d20, but Im not sure if thats it. Could you give me some general information what I should look for? Or meyby you have a link ready for such nOObish question?


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## fireinthedust (Sep 23, 2010)

Core is sufficient.   Scavenger's guide to Droids is good if you're going to own one: you'll be using the Droids as Equipment rules (ie: it takes some of your actions in combat to order a Droid to take an action).  

However, I want to keep the game basic, focus on standard stuff and characterization.  Core is the main reference document; the other stuff I'll add as needed, or we can hash out.

I plan on using all my books, but I don't expect sophisticated PCs using rules from all the books.  Ask me and I'll say if I have them (ie: if they're good to use).  

Cybernetics: I've always wanted to use the d20 Future rules for them.  You'll need to buy them after the game starts (you can start with a basic prosthesis arm if you'd like, but no extras like laser beams, etc.).  
     Which reminds me: I like the idea of losing a limb rather than dying in SW, if you're pummeled enough.  How do you (who'll live with this) feel about it?  I know the Jedi likely won't want this, so I won't force it on them (pun intended); but if anyone has any ideas speak up and let's work it out.


Equipment: let's stay Core for the first adventure, then branch out with special Predator gear.  I want to get a feel for the rules before going beyond the basics; but once we try out a few encounters, get used to each other, I'm all over special stuff that's part of the plot, and that we work on together.


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## Rainmar (Sep 23, 2010)

Ok, going slow from beginning to get a hang on it fine i think.

About core book, I have D20 Star Wars Core Revised...seems the other books I found are only supplememnts, I will try to dig up Clone Wars SAGA, in case I cant find it could you give me general info on whre to find it?

Cybernetics?  I also have d20 modern, hehe...I dont mind even being a full fledged cyborg, now I have to think if not start with some cyborgisation at all , its like cream on the top of the cake for me!


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## Blackrat (Sep 23, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Jedi:  no force wizards.  They're boring to GM.  I really want lightsabre battles with Sith, with some Force powers; but I had a wizard in the last game I tried to run pick up and pin the giant robot I'd attacked the group with, which kinda broke the game.  Ugh.  I do enjoy making up Darksiders, though, and I'd like to try out a Jedi battle at some point.




I'm in enough games as it is, but as a fellow SAGA GM, I'd like to offer you a suggestion. Especially for games where you want the jedi to be of the more martial variant rather than force wizards, I have found that rolling Block and Deflect talents and their relevant successors into one set rather than separate paths is good way to encourage the use of lightsaber.


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## Insight (Sep 23, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Your thoughts?  we'll be playing together for several months, so let's start tlaking and thinking about it.  I will be scaling challenges to you, and I don't take it easy: common sense and problem solving are likely a part of the game, as well as tactics and adventure.  I don't make impossible scenarios, but they might not seem that way while in there.




How do you get additional feats and talents?  Or do you just stop getting them at 7th level?

EDIT: OK went back and found the bit about feats.  Talents are every odd level, I believe.  How would we handle this?

Also, this seems to make the various paragon paths impossible to achieve.  Not that I have ever seen a PbP game last that long, but I thought I'd bring it up.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 23, 2010)

Blackrat said:


> I'm in enough games as it is, but as a fellow SAGA GM, I'd like to offer you a suggestion. Especially for games where you want the jedi to be of the more martial variant rather than force wizards, I have found that rolling Block and Deflect talents and their relevant successors into one set rather than separate paths is good way to encourage the use of lightsaber.





What do you mean?  Like have it be one Talent rather than two?  I was thinking that starting at level 3+ would help that.  Frankly, I can't imagine Jedi who *don't* have both of those Talents to start with, I wonder why they aren't part of the starting package.


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## Blackrat (Sep 23, 2010)

Yep exactly. Just one talent. And I agree with you in that it really should be part of the starting package. There are other solutions for this that I've seen, but I have found making them into one talent is pretty good on balance side too.

Other way to treat it that I've considered trying is to make part of the standard Use the Force list. Like Move Light Object.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 23, 2010)

Insight said:


> How do you get additional feats and talents?  Or do you just stop getting them at 7th level?
> 
> EDIT: OK went back and found the bit about feats.  Talents are every odd level, I believe.  How would we handle this?
> 
> Also, this seems to make the various paragon paths impossible to achieve.  Not that I have ever seen a PbP game last that long, but I thought I'd bring it up.




No, I don't mean we'll do SAGA E6!  Heh, good idea, though.  It's a 20 level progression game.

I meant what a good starting level for pbp would be.


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## Songdragon (Sep 23, 2010)

I am going to bow out for the time being. I am having computer issues (computer just up and is not able to locate the hard drive.) Until I have it fixed my only access is on my wife's computer. It will be hard enough to keep up with my current games until I can get things fixed.

Best of luck to all, looks like fun.


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## possum (Sep 23, 2010)

Anybody need an ARC Trooper?


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## Insight (Sep 23, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> No, I don't mean we'll do SAGA E6!  Heh, good idea, though.  It's a 20 level progression game.
> 
> I meant what a good starting level for pbp would be.




Oh yeah.  In that case, I would think 7th level would be a good place to start, especially if the Jedi characters are expected to be knights already.


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## Rainmar (Sep 23, 2010)

Ok, I didnt get what you said too , and already thought we are going SAGA E6.

Yes, lvl 7 is fine with me.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 23, 2010)

Lvl 7...  I have an idea.  5th level.

I want to break things up into several adventures over time.  I'll even re-recruit at the end of each one, so if you lot get tired of playing and leave me and, like, one guy, it's not the end of the world: we finish the scenario, and you can notch it on your belt that you *finished* a pbp adventure.

Each adventure I'll change the level and move the timeline along a bit.  It's a long Clone War.  

This first adventure let's do 5th.  I want to cover some basic ground, then see if we can't have all the Padawans come back as Jedi knights in round 2 (if it works out, we'll re-introduce the group a year later, say, or just walk in on the group after some more battles and space time).  

I'm leery about the stats for Stormtroopers, but I get the feeling that mass combat takes the edge off that: lots of attacks vs. PCs having only one each.



Let's see some 5th level PCs!

Stats:  (before adjustments)  16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 10.  Arrange to choice, then add racial modifiers.

Books: Core
Equipment/Credits: standard 1st level credits for your class.  We'll get more as time goes on (and I wrap my head around the commerce here); if you need something in particular, let's talk.


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## Rainmar (Sep 23, 2010)

DM-sama, I have changed my idea from before, mainly after reading core book. My PC will not come from genetic breeding like I thought before. He's gona be from Zebrak race, very resilient from living in harsh enviroment. I think there is a chance of him being drafted into a team because of need of scout and someone who knows things around. For example a planet is being atta...liberated from robots and clone trooper rush/orbital bomabrdment and such things will not lead to victory. There might be a object to retreive/destroy or we have to 'borrow' someone to be informant [preferably high ranking officer]. At such times natives might come with help. As I said my PC MIGHT have happened to be tha native(there might have been a Zebrak Tribe on such planet) and now is leading team thru jungle/wastes/lava lake . Later on he could have been drafted in because of his skill and trained to be a Soldier. And then become a Cover Operative and such...then some unlucky accident happens and cyborgisation! We dont want to loose our operative who costed us so much to train...right? Robocop 

Well that would be my ideas for now. Say a word DM and I will think of something else, if that wont go with your ideas. 

During character creation I have used a average roll to simplyfy rolls.

Khor Naruk, Zebrak, 5th lvl Scout

Str  10 (+0)         ######BAB: +3, Damage Bonus: +2, 
Dex 17 (+3)         ######HP: 26 + 26 = 52 hp
Con 14 (+2)         ######Force Points: 7
Int  14 (+2)         ######Fort:[1+1+2+5+10] +19
Wis 12 (+1)         ######Ref: [1+3+2+10+5+2] +23
Cha 10 (+0)         ######Will: [1+1+10+5] +17

Zebrak Species: Highened Awareness, Superior Defenses

Trained Skills:
STEALTH(Dex) [2+3+5+5= +15]
SURVIVAL(Wis) [2+5+1= +8]
PERCEPTION(Wis) [2+5+1= +8]
INITIATIVE(Dex) [2+5+3= +10]
ENDURANCE(Con) [2+5+2= +9]
CLIMB(Str) [2+5+0= +7]
MECHANICS(Int) [2+5+2= +9]

Feats:                                                                              #################Talents:
Shake it Off!                                                              #############Hidden Movement
Weapon proficiency(pistols)     ###Improved Stealth
Weapon Proficiency(Rifles)                         ####Total Concealment
Weapon Proficiency(simple weapons)
Skill Focus(Stealth)
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Carefull Shot

Equipment: Blast Helmet and Vest[500 cr.], Standard Targetting Scope[100 cr.], Utility Belt[500 cr.], Slug Rifle(2d8, S/A/, Piercing, 4kg)[300 cr.]

450 cr. left out of 1750 cr.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 23, 2010)

Looks great.  Keep him coming.


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## Padreigh (Sep 23, 2010)

Here my proposed character. Posted the Stats block, since as mentioned before, my books are some 800 km west of my current position (thank the Force for online character generators  )

Gareth Farstrider CL 5

Medium Human Jedi 4/scout 1
Init +10; Senses Perception +9
Languages Basic, Huttese

Defenses Ref 20 (flat-footed 17), Fort 18, Will 18; Block, Deflect, Evasion
hp 56; Threshold 17

Speed 6 squares
Melee by weapon +4
Ranged by weapon +7
Base Atk +4; Grp +7
Force Powers Known (Use The Force +12) Force grip, Force slam (2), mind trick, move object, surge

Abilities Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 10
Talents Block, Deflect, Evasion
Feats Force Sensitivity, Force Training (2), Skill Focus (Use the Force), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, pistols, rifles, simple weapons)
Skills Initiative +10, Knowledge (galactic lore) +8, Perception +9, Pilot +10, Stealth +10, Survival +9, Use the Force +12

Gareth was inducted into the Jedi order as a young child and went through the normal training period as a youngling. When his master picked him as a padawan, that normality ended. His master considered too much reliance on Jedi abilities to be a dangerous thing and therefore exposed Gareth to life at the "frontier" for a while before continuing with a more traditional education. Gareth picked up some tricks and is well able to survive on his own without having to resort to the force. He is taciturn and never really at ease when in the company of strangers. Having just returned to the temple after returning from a solo mission (a totally uneventful tour as bodyguard in the entourage of a senator), he discovered that his master has gone missing.

Edit: While the generator got the maths right, as far as I can tell, I will of course double-check everything as soon as possible. 

HP are not for level 5 though. Wasn't sure how to proceed there. Average, Max-2, Max, Random?


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## possum (Sep 24, 2010)

Here's what I have so far

Alpha-45 "Brynn"  CL 
Male Cloned Human (Jango Fett Template) Soldier 5

Destiny 05/05; Force 07/07; Dark Side
Init +10; Senses Perception +7
Languages Basic
***
Defenses Ref 10+1+3+? Fort 10+2+1+5 Will 10+5
HP ; Threshold
Immune
***
Speed 6 squares
Melee
or
Ranged Blaster Rifle +10 3d8+2 damage
Base Atk +5; Grp 
Atk Options
Special Actions
***
Abilities Str 14 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 15 Wis 10 Cha 10
Special Qualities
Talents Armored Defense, Battle Analysis, Improved Armor Defense, 
Feats Martial Arts I, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw
Skills Climb +9, Initiative +10, Knowledge (Tactics) +9, Jump +9, Perception +7
Possessions

Money (3d4*250=)


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## fireinthedust (Sep 24, 2010)

They're looking great so far.

Gareth:  Did you want a low-Cha Jedi?  Keep in mind that your Cha bonus is the bonus to your rolls, while the Wis bonus is how many powers you have.  Deflect and Block are both dependent upon Cha bonus as well.  The stats are descriptive more than anything else, but still handy to keep in mind.  A 14 would not be a bad stat to have, for example.

EDIT:  can you also link me to the character generator?

Alpha-45:  looks fine.  It should be 13, not 15, however.

In fact, you both have a 15 instead of another number.  Is there some other set of stats the generators seem to use?  Link me to them!


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## Padreigh (Sep 24, 2010)

I used this one:
Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible...

As far as I recall, characters got a +1 to two attributes of choice at 4th level ... or am I confusing that with one of the other d20 games?

Actually, now that you mention it I noticed that I made a mistake in creating Gareth, if what I mentioned above is true. I used 16, 14, 12, 12, 10, 10 instead of 16, 14, *13*, 12, 10, 10.

I'l edit the character a bit. And low Cha is on purpose. 
Gareth is not really a people person. And Jedi suffer from that same illness Paladin suffered from in 3e ... MAD (multiple attribute disorder) 

Dexterity is needed for fighting (so is Strength to a lesser degree). Wisdom give more force powers (always helpful), Constitution can save lives with that extra hitpoints, Intelligence also helps because you get skills (a weakness of the Jedi). Leaves Charisma ... that is good for Use the Force and the social skills. Honestly speaking, Nobles are way better in social environments than Jedi and Use the Force can be bolstered with Skill Focus, if need be.


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## Padreigh (Sep 24, 2010)

Two quick questions.

HP: What's the word now on HP? Random roll, average, max, max-2?

Equipment: I was wondering. In a Republican campaign, would Jedi actually "own" equipment? I would suggest that Jedi only have their lightsabre and their robes and the rest (survival kits, utility belts etc.) will be supplied on a mission basis.


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## Insight (Sep 24, 2010)

I won't be able to make my character until tonight, most likely.

Question: Since this is a Clone Wars era game, is the Clone Wars Campaign Guide available for use?  There could be some Force powers or feats in there (not sure, haven't looked yet).


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## possum (Sep 24, 2010)

The 15 is actually my 14 with one of my two points of stat upgrades thanks to my level.  Comparing the stats I have with yours, I've got it correct, unless I'm missing something.

The 16 went to my dex and was unchanged, the 14 went to Int and was improved on when I leveled, the 13 went to Str and improved when I leveled, the 12 and 10s went to Con, Wis and Cha.


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## Rainmar (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeh, I wanted to ask about equpiment too. Is it that we are a 'trainee' elite squad(or simply those who are expandable if mission goes awry? )and we will be deemed worthy after this mission and thus given access to better eq?

My PC is going to be a native so eq he has is well reflecting it. DM, do you accept idea of my PC's background and how can he be introduced into campaign? If not say so and I will try to do some adjustments.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 24, 2010)

let's go Average + Con for now.  If I find we need more HP, I'll increase to max.

Jedi are generally pretty sparse, I suppose.  I don't mind basic equipment, like a re-breather or utility belt; I won't rule that they can't load up, but why would they?

I have an idea for what I want to do for the first adventure or so.  I'll accept probably 6 or 7 players, accounting for the drop-off rate (tho if all 7 stay, that's great).  

I forgot about the stat increase!   But it's +1 to two different stats, right?


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## Padreigh (Sep 24, 2010)

+1 to two, yes, that is what I remembered. Average HP it is then.

And my character would be happy with the utility belt, a rebreather ... and maybe a blaster pistol if he can get away with it  (hiding it behind his back, when Yoda's doing an inspection )


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## Insight (Sep 25, 2010)

[sblock=Reith Oloor, Jedi]
*REITH OLOOR
HUMAN JEDI 5*

*ABILITY SCORES*
*STR* 12
*DEX* 17
*CON* 10
*INT* 10
*WIS* 14
*CHA* 14

*DEFENSES & HP*
*HP* 52
*FORT* 16
*REFLEX* 19
*WILL* 18
*Force Points* 9

*COMBAT*
*Attack Bonus* +5
*Lightsaber* +9 attack, 2d8 dmg
*Lightsaber - Rapid Strike* +7/+7 attack, 3d8 dmg

*TRAINED SKILLS*
*Acrobatics* +10
*Initiative* +10
*Use the Force* +14

*FEATS*
Force Sensitivity (from Jedi)
Force Training [3] (Jedi Bonus)
Rapid Strike
Skill Focus - Use the Force
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus - Lightsabers (Jedi Bonus)
Weapon Proficiency - Lightsabers (from Jedi)
Weapon Proficiency - Simple Weapons (from Jedi)

*TALENTS*
Lightsaber Combat - Block
Lightsaber Combat - Lightsaber Defense [2]

*FORCE POWERS*
Battle Strike
Force Disarm
Negate Energy

*EQUIPMENT*
Lightsaber
Jedi Robes
Utility Belt

[/sblock]


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## Padreigh (Sep 25, 2010)

Quick question regarding your character, if I may, Insight:

How do you get a +9 with your lightsabre? Can Dexterity be used for lightsabres without getting Weapon Finesse? That would be nice


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## Insight (Sep 26, 2010)

Padreigh said:


> Quick question regarding your character, if I may, Insight:
> 
> How do you get a +9 with your lightsabre? Can Dexterity be used for lightsabres without getting Weapon Finesse? That would be nice




That's my understanding.  I'll have to find a source for it.


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## Padreigh (Sep 26, 2010)

Please let me know when you find it. I could then exchange Weapon Finesse for something else.


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## possum (Sep 26, 2010)

I really doubt that my character'll be able to get some clonetrooper armor, but I have to ask.


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## Padreigh (Sep 27, 2010)

Insight said:


> That's my understanding. I'll have to find a source for it.




Finally reunited with my books. 

Unfortunately lightsabres use STR as well, since they are listed in the description of "Weapon Finesse"


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## Insight (Sep 27, 2010)

Padreigh said:


> Finally reunited with my books.
> 
> Unfortunately lightsabres use STR as well, since they are listed in the description of "Weapon Finesse"




I must have been thinking about a house rule.  So now Jedi need 4 decent ability scores to be any good.  Sheesh. Or take Weapon Finesse.  Pretty ridiculous considering a lightsaber weighs about as much as a flashlight.

I might just make a regular non force user.  Screw it.  Feat tax, it is!


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## Padreigh (Sep 27, 2010)

Insight said:


> So now Jedi need 4 decent ability scores to be any good. Sheesh. Or take Weapon Finesse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Insight (Sep 27, 2010)

Padreigh said:


> Insight said:
> 
> 
> > So now Jedi need 4 decent ability scores to be any good. Sheesh. Or take Weapon Finesse.
> ...




If the design goal for balance is to make Jedi suck at everything they're supposed to be able to do, then mission accomplished lol


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## fireinthedust (Sep 28, 2010)

Jedi are surprisingly not MAD, actually.  Well, there are three stats you need to power up if you want to dominate, but that keeps it fairly simple.

Dex:  is used for so much in SAGA it's not funny.  Every class needs it.  All combat is ranged, and Defense (AC) is based on DEX.  Add to that piloting for ships, and this stat is a must.  
     That Jedi use it for lightsabres through weapon finesse is actually a gift.  Consider that lightsabres can deflect blaster shots *and* carve through objects ignoring hardness, they're a heck of a utility gadget.  The damage from a high STR isn't the issue; it's nice, but no big deal.  It's even more of a hassle to use STR, as then you're lowering your DEX use for pilot, defense, and ranged attacks.  

Wisdom:  your range of jedi powers, if I recall.  handy, but doesn't have to be too big.  Consider that when you get force training, and bump up your wisdom another modifier slot, you get a pile more powers.  it adds up fast, so you can do a lot with even just a +1 or +2 modifier.

Charisma:  the other Jedi power score.  If you have a high Cha, and the Deflect and Block talents for your lightsabre, you're really hard to hit in combat.   Use the Force is an incredibly versatile skill that just gets better, and it's Cha-based.  Not only can you get through many social situations, you're also unhittable in combat; and you get successes on skills like jump and pilot and other force-related things.  Want to slam someone with a ship?  Charisma.

Int:  can be good, but don't forget that you can make up for particular skills with Use the Force.  Human Jedi get that bonus feat to cover the cost of Weapon Finesse, and they get a bonus skill, meaning INT is even less important (sadly).

Str:  a trap, when you consider how many other things DEX is used for.

Con: okay, good for HP, so I'd put it fourth on your list for stats.


Finally:  I'm basing the game on the assumption that 10 is the average human level for anything.  I could be STR 10.  If I'm even Dex 10 I'll be happy.  Charisma 10 means you have the average number of friends expected, people look at you as a normal person.  There's no modifier on it because it's a straight roll.  If you can do this in RL, you should be fine with a 10.

That said, if you've got a DEX 17, that's fantastic.  You're up there with olympic gymnasts, which is only natural: you're a hero.  Can you imagine how incredible a Jedi Knight (which your skill level is almost at) must be?  Ahsoka Tano, from the Clone Wars series, is only level 4.  Look at what she can do: you're a level higher than she is.



Clone Trooper armour:  that's fine.  You're on a ship filled with them.  If you can afford it, get it.  If you're a Clone Trooper, you have to get it.  Make sense?


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## fireinthedust (Sep 29, 2010)

Elite Squad:  assuming normal humans are fairly low level, you folks are really great.  You're not Yoda level, but you've got the qualities it takes to be the Arc Trooper-level characters who star in films.  So no, you're not Trainees.  

Even the Jedi here are good enough that they *could* go be Jedi Knights.  Instead, however, they're being groomed for the type of knights everyone knows they have the potential to be.  They're the kids at the top of their class in their fields every year running, that ma and pop put in charge of the soda store when they're going out of town, to watch the other kids.  They get "so when are you going for your testing?" a lot.  

Think X-force rather than just X-men.  You've been trained harder and longer than any other group.

Equipment you'll have to run by me, however.  I don't want any crazy stuff, but simple things like Clone Trooper armour I'm fine with.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 30, 2010)

I want 5 solid characters or I won't run the game.  Max 7.  If we start and I lose players and so have fewer than 4, I'll wrap up the adventure and call it a day. 

Though I'll hope to wrap up the scenario; I can't promise survival, as I'm making the encounters now (IE: not tailored to your characters; well, maybe assuming we'll have a Jedi).  If the Jedi leave, the Sith will still be there ready to fight the party.  If the pilot dies, the ship still needs a driver, and the asteroid belt you're in is still there.  DCs are set.  Rooms are there.  There is a Gundar chained in from of the Hutt's death ray controls.  etc.   (note: none of the above examples are from the scenario, they're illustrative of what *could* be in it, or not, or differently so, etc.)

I will finish this recruitment in 5 days.  If I don't get 5 characters, we don't play.


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## grufflehead (Sep 30, 2010)

OK, given that I've only seen 4 committed responses, and it would be a shame for this to not get going, I'll throw a hat roughly in your direction. 

Reasons for not letting me in:

- I slunk away from your last game like a big, fat baby. Waaaaaaah!
- I've been bitching and moaning to anyone who will listen about how much I've gone off D20 and this seems to be D20 based
- While I've watched all the movies, other than the obligatory man-crush on Princess Leia (when I was young enough to have known better) I've never read/watched/written about/pretended to be a character from the Star Wars universe
- I've only ever played about 3 sessions of SAGA edition, and I don't own any of the books
- Er, isn't that enough? 

Reasons for considering me:
- Books I can borrow; somebody I know must have them
- There are no Su...Su..., no I can't bring myself to say the word in SAGA, ergo I'm less likely to go into an splenetic and irrational rant
- If Insight and I get into another sci-fi game together, I'll be getting down on one knee with a ring (wait, maybe that should have gone in the first list...)
- Of the four ideas I've seen pitched, there's lots of manly testosterone, bro, but that's about all. What this group needs is a shifty droid who'll steal the hubcaps off your speeder as soon as look at you, then convince you otherwise. Can't shoot your way out of everything, boys (well, maybe you can, but where's the fun in that!?)
- You've stopped reading, haven't you?

So, I'll be your fifth (assuming said droid is acceptable) and I promise, on pain of being force gripped in the nads, not to leave this time.


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## fireinthedust (Sep 30, 2010)

Grufflehead:  sounds fine to me.  Stats are the same, and you'll need to follow the Droid PC rules as best you can.  What model are you thinking?  And, most importantly, what's your rationalization for killing the droid army?  

I recommend you watch the clone wars TV show, however.  I will be drawing heavily on it throughout the story.  In fact...

1)  watch Attack of the Clones (skip Phantom Menace, as it sucked; only Darth Maul happened).  
2)  Watch the Clone Wars movie, and the series.
3)  Watch Revenge of the Sith.  You can do this before the show, as it doesn't change anything, and everyone already watched it before they started the series.

also: surprisingly, the reason you left solved itself.  Oddly.  We're almost done that game.

Also also:  heh, if I advertise one more SAGA game with Insight playing, I'm in the same boat.


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## possum (Sep 30, 2010)

[sblock=99% Finished Character Sheet]
Alpha-45 "Chase"

Male cloned Human (Jango Fett template) Soldier 5

Destiny Destruction 5; Force 7; Dark Side 0
Init +10; Senses Perception +7
Languages Basic
***
Defenses Ref 22 (10 base +5 level +3 armor +1 class +3 ability) Fort 19 (5 level, 1 armor, 2 class, 1 ability) Will 15 (5 level)
HP 55/55; Threshold 19
***
Speed 6 squares
Melee Unarmed +7 1d6+4 dmg
or
Ranged DC-15 Blaster Rifle +8 3d8+2 dmg
or
Ranged DC-15 Blaster Rifle +6 4d8+2 dmg (Rapid Shot)
or
Ranged DC-15 Blaster Rifle +9 3d8+2 dmg (Point Blank Shot)
or
Ranged DC-15 Blaster Rifle +7 4d8+2 dmg (Point Blank Shot & Rapid Shot)
Base Atk +5; Grp +6
Atk Options Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
Special Actions Quick Draw
***
Abilities Str 14 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 15 Wis 10 Cha 10
Talents Armored Defense, Battle Analysis, Improved Armor Defense
Feats Armor Prof. (Light, Medium), Martial Arts I, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Weapon Prof. (simple, pistols, rifles)
Skills Climb +9, Initiative +10, Knowledge (Tactics) +9, Perception +7
Possessions DC-15 blaster rifle, comlink, Phase 1 clone trooper armor, kama.[/sblock]


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## grufflehead (Sep 30, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Grufflehead:  sounds fine to me.What model are you thinking?  And, most importantly, what's your rationalization for killing the droid army?




I'm going for a protocol droid, pretty much like C3PO. Except useful, obviously. And less of a dork. I've managed to borrow the core book, Scum & Villainy and 1 more but not the droid one (which my buddy didn't have). From a quick flick, I can assume the base 3PO chassis and then assign stats and have to take one of the basic classes? Scoundrel seems like the obvious choice and a level of Independent Droid.; I don't plan on getting my circuits dirty so any chance I can swap that Point Blank Shot feat for something useful? 

Why am I fighting the droid army? 2 reasons: my boss (I'm thinking that nice Senator Organa unless that screws up your plot?) asked me nicely, and because that Grievous guy's eyes are too close together. Shifty, if you ask me, and that's not becoming in a droid (unless it's me). 



fireinthedust said:


> I recommend you watch the clone wars TV show, however.  I will be drawing heavily on it throughout the story.  In fact...
> 
> 1)  watch Attack of the Clones (skip Phantom Menace, as it sucked; only Darth Maul happened).
> 2)  Watch the Clone Wars movie, and the series.
> 3)  Watch Revenge of the Sith.  You can do this before the show, as it doesn't change anything, and everyone already watched it before they started the series.




Think I've done 1 and 3 at some point. Will try and track down 2 for background purposes.

Need to work up stats but I think I know where I'm going. A bit surprised at the lack of non-combat feat choices, but a poor droid has to manage somehow...


EDIT: Going away for the first part of the weekend. There are a couple of games shops where I'm going so will look for the droid book. If I can't find it I'll make do with what I've got access to. Will have some stats up for approval by Sunday or Monday.


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## Blackrat (Oct 1, 2010)

Hehee... I'll say it up front, I'm a slow poster. Possum can testify on that . Regardless, I'm one of the geekiest SW geeks there is, and SAGA is my all time favourite game system. So, eventhough I said earlier that I'm already in enough games, if you are willing to accept one more who posts maybe a little too scarsely, I'd love in.


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## grufflehead (Oct 1, 2010)

Name: Z3R0
Designation: Protocol Droid
Class: Scoundrel 4/Independent Droid 1

STR 10
DEX 10
CON -
INT 16
WIS 16
CHA 16

Init: +0
HP: 33
Fort: N/A
Ref: 19
Will: 23

Feats: Skill  Focus: Use Computer (OK to swap this for Point Blank Shot?), Informer (use Perception in place of Gather Information), Skill Focus: Perception, Skill Focus: Deception, Skill Focus: Persuasion

Talents: Knack x2 (re-roll any D20 check 2/day), Etiquette (when using Persuasion to change attitudes, positive change is +1 category)

Skills: Persuasion +15, Deception +15, Stealth +7, Perception +17, Knowledge (Bureaucracy) +10, Use Computer +15, Mechanics +10

Gear: Magnetic feet, 1kg locked smuggling compartment, Translator Unit (DC15), Backup Processor, Improved Sensors (low light vision), Commlink

Tools: Lockpick, Welding Torch, Flashlight, Computer Interface, Grappling line, Laser cutter, Halon fire extinguisher

Languages: Basic, Binary, +3 TBA


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## fireinthedust (Oct 1, 2010)

Let's start with the CORE books.

Unless everyone in the group has access to another book, ask specifically which item/talent you want from another book and I'll take a look at it.  I don't want people to feel left behind.

And yeah, not many non-combat feats.  Keep in mind they were doing 4e while doing SAGA!

How many finished characters have we got?


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## Padreigh (Oct 2, 2010)

If you are okay with him, Gareth looks like this:

Gareth Farstrider CL 5

Medium Human Jedi 4/scout 1
Init +10; Senses Perception +9
Languages Basic, Huttese

Defenses Ref 20 (flat-footed 17), Fort 18, Will 18; Block, Deflect, Evasion
hp 56; Threshold 17

Speed 6 squares
Melee by weapon +4
Ranged by weapon +7
Base Atk +4; Grp +7
Force Powers Known (Use The Force +12) Force grip, Force slam (2), mind trick, move object, surge

Abilities Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 10
Talents Block, Deflect, Evasion
Feats Force Sensitivity, Force Training (2), Skill Focus (Use the Force), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, pistols, rifles, simple weapons)
Skills Initiative +10, Knowledge (galactic lore) +8, Perception +9, Pilot +10, Stealth +10, Survival +9, Use the Force +12

Equipment: Lightsabre, Utility belt, Jedi Robes (have seen better days), blaster pistol

I still keep Charisma low, because I like grumpy Jedi


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## fireinthedust (Oct 4, 2010)

Looking great so far.  

Everyone who's got a character finished and still wants to play, post your character today.  As soon as I've got 5 we'll start.  If I get enough, I'll post the opening of the game tonight.  If I have to wait until tomorrow, I can do that also.

I'm also looking for a link to a way I can post Star Wars crawls for the openings of these games.  Anyone know of one that works?


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## grufflehead (Oct 4, 2010)

OK, have amended sheet in post above. As far as gear goes, I had it in mind to have a number of 'things' in the end of his fingers - the end opens up to reveal the bit of gear in question. So I've got a light, a welding torch etc - OK with that?

Otherwise, I think I'm ready to go. I've got languages to select but am happy to be guided according to where we are as I'm not too familiar with the SW universe.

Description wise, Z3R0 is effectively C3P0 in looks (except he's more a metallic steel colour instead of shiny gold...), and talks in the same sort of way (but in a voice more closely resembling somebody like Chris Cooper). Outwardly, he is the classic helpful protocol droid, but as I assume the 'party' have either met before or been briefed on each others' abilities, so they'll know he has a number of other 'talents' in addition to acting as liaison for them.


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## fireinthedust (Oct 4, 2010)

those look fine.  Do we have all 5 characters yet?  (counts in head)  Wait, no only 3.  Unless Insight is still with us, at which point 4 is good enough.

Hmmm... you three want to give it a go anyway?


If so I'll post tomorrow.


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## Insight (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm still here.  My character was done a while back so I've been in lurker mode.  I'm ready to go.


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## possum (Oct 4, 2010)

Consider my 99% ready character in post #50, 100% ready.  I'm still in.


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## fireinthedust (Oct 6, 2010)

Here is the link to the game thread:
STRIKE HARD FOR THE ADAMANT!

When you post there we'll be using sblock to write OOC material.  

Please pick a color to post dialogue in.  Green is being used for Ram Kota for the first scene, but if you want it I don't mind (though if I ever play in one of your games I call dibs!)

You're in a room with everyone after a briefing on the mission at hand (discussed in the opening crawl and the main post).  I want you to describe yourselves and start interacting with each other.  Ask questions, sure, and then we'll jump into the action.  It'll be hard and fierce, so get ready for it.

Also: I don't like waiting on groups who won't post because they think I'm working with someone else.  Find something to do at all times.  This is PBP, not RL tabletop, so I can respond to everyone.  Just because one of you is talking to the guards doesn't mean the others can't have a look around the door; if one of you falls down the hole, don't wait for him to climb back up, work on getting him out of there.  

I mean, do you like waiting during Cut-scenes?  This is your game time; I can post to whoever i like, or move things along however I want.  If you want to move things along, do something, anything!

Anyway: the game is up!  Let me know what you think.


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## Padreigh (Oct 19, 2010)

Out of curiosity: How far into the war are we actually?


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## fireinthedust (Oct 19, 2010)

use the main thread; I almost didn't see this!

to answer:  fairly far into it.  I can't give you a precise timeline, but you've been at fighting for, let's say, five levels worth of experience.  (shrugs)   You've seen enough.  I don't personally know how long the war lasted, but you're well into the Clone Wars series at this point.


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## Insight (Oct 20, 2010)

Sorry, folk, but I'm dropping out of this game.  I'm just not "feeling it".  Nothing wrong with the game, the players, or the GM, it's just not exciting me enough to continue.  I can't really put my finger on it.  Maybe I'm just in too many games right now.

Anyway, good luck with the game!


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## perrinmiller (Jan 1, 2011)

Okay, I posted Sonja in the IC thread, but Fireinthedust hasn't answered my PM or OOC questions.  Maybe everyone is taking the holiday off, dunno.  I think he was going to say "no" to the alternative Jedi build I was asking about anyway. 

I posted here to bring the OOC thread back to the current pages.

I still have a question about whether Deflect and Block are being considered one Talent as discussed in this thread.


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