# Zaratan - A Giant Turtle - Where to find it?



## comareddin (Sep 12, 2005)

In AD&D 2nd edition monstous manual there was a creature named Zaratan. The said creature was a giant turtle carrying an entire island on his back. I looked through the 3rd edition book books MM 1, 2 and 3 but couldn't find it. Does anyone know if this creature was published in a 3 or 3.5 edition book, or was its conversion to the current rule system was done by someone? If so could you please point me in the right direction. If someone has manually converted the zaratan could s/he please post the stats and the abilities.

Com


----------



## Crothian (Sep 12, 2005)

EN World has everything

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/beast/zaratan.htm


----------



## demiurge1138 (Sep 12, 2005)

If you were interested in an "official" conversion, the zaratan made its way into Arms and Equipment Guide, of all things.

Demiurge out.


----------



## HeavyG (Sep 12, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> EN World has everything
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/beast/zaratan.htm




Cr 25 ? Our 19th level party could kill it in one round !  :\


----------



## Crothian (Sep 12, 2005)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> Cr 25 ? Our 19th level party could kill it in one round !  :\




Not with me running the show      

But I didn't do the conversion.  What is the CR in the equipment book?


----------



## HeavyG (Sep 12, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Not with me running the show




I'm not sure what you mean by this, exactly. 

But we're talking about a living island, here. Look up how many hit points a small section of stone wall has and tell me these kinds of stats make sense !

This creature should be treated more like scenery than like a typical monster, IMO.

(I was exagerrating a little for dramatic effect, though. We could probably only remove half of its hit points or so the first round.)


----------



## Crothian (Sep 12, 2005)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what you mean by this, exactly.




That I feel I can run a battle with one of these in my campaign and have it destroy a 19th level party, but that's neither here nor there.


----------



## comareddin (Sep 12, 2005)

Oh god, it really is considered an equipment now, and I was considering of including it in my plot as an island, being asleep for centuries. 

The version in the A&E Guide is CR 20 with 554 hp, 32 AC and minimal combat abilities.

Com


----------



## HeavyG (Sep 12, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> That I feel I can run a battle with one of these in my campaign and have it destroy a 19th level party, but that's neither here nor there.




You're really impressing me here, C. I mean, taking a creature with one weak attack, a super low AC, low intelligence and no mobility and challenging a high level group with it. Wow.  Are you going to start a Bothered About Disposable Zaratan group or what ?


----------



## Crothian (Sep 12, 2005)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> You're really impressing me here, C. I mean, taking a creature with one weak attack, a super low AC, low intelligence and no mobility and challenging a high level group with it. Wow.  Are you going to start a Bothered About Disposable Zaratan group or what ?




No, I was just going to drop it on them


----------



## HeavyG (Sep 12, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> No, I was just going to drop it on them




Ah. 

(I actually thought about that - it was my next question . But we might survive it. How much damage would that do, approximately ?)


----------



## Crothian (Sep 12, 2005)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> Ah.
> 
> (I actually thought about that - it was my next question . But we might survive it. How much damage would that do, approximately ?)




Depends on the wieght...there is a table for dropping things on people, though I don't recall where it is.


----------



## Jack Simth (Sep 12, 2005)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> Ah.
> 
> (I actually thought about that - it was my next question . But we might survive it. How much damage would that do, approximately ?)



Fatal.  Let's see... you are crushed by something weighing in at ... what?  A few million pounds?  That's hard as granite, and all it needs to get dropped on you is a mage, friendly to it, near enough to it to cast Dimension Door (perhaps Teleport, or Greater Teleport) to raise it up just high enough to be above you.  After all, for all it's size, it's still a single creature....

Of course, for that CR, it's got a horrid will save.....


----------



## HeavyG (Sep 12, 2005)

Jack Simth said:
			
		

> Fatal.  Let's see... you are crushed by something weighing in at ... what?  A few million pounds?




Yeah, but a colossal dragon that falls on you only inflicts 4d8 dmg (plus STR bonus, I guess).


----------



## Jack Simth (Sep 12, 2005)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> Yeah, but a colossal dragon that falls on you only inflicts 4d8 dmg (plus STR bonus, I guess).



 Yes... but dragons don't usually get confused, over very long periods of time, for big chunks of rock.  This thing is called Colossal, not because it takes up a .... what, an 8x8 area on the combat grid?  But because they lack a sufficiently larger size descriptor.  You're talking an island several miles across; I suppose "millions" doesn't cover the sheer weight involved.  Perhaps "billions" or "trillions" of pounds.  Hmm... at 1 square mile, 100 feet thick, you are talking 2787840000 cubic feet .... that much distilled water weighs in at ... 77,466,416.91817322 tons, or 173,516,904,153.6535 lbs.  If it's bigger - say, half as thick as it is wide - then you are talking half a cubic mile of flesh - 8,586,756,000 cubic feet, 534,445,060,635.7642 lbs (assuming the density of distilled water).(Nifty Website for densities)


----------



## Crothian (Sep 12, 2005)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> Yeah, but a colossal dragon that falls on you only inflicts 4d8 dmg (plus STR bonus, I guess).




That's special crush dragon damage...not object falling on you damage though.


----------



## Alzrius (Sep 12, 2005)

I thought there was a ruling of some sort that the most a falling object could do to you was 20d6.


----------



## Crothian (Sep 12, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> I thought there was a ruling of some sort that the most a falling object could do to you was 20d6.




falling damage has a cap, but not a falling object hitting someone that I have seen


----------



## Testament (Sep 12, 2005)

Use the improvised weapons rules from the Complete Warrior.  That's how Hulking Hurlers are able to shatter planets, after all.


----------



## comareddin (Sep 12, 2005)

Well, falling objects  should have damage cap as well. It is all about terminal velocity actually. More air resistance applies as you increase velocity. When you reach that terminal velocity the air resistance is equal to the force applies by gravity so your speed does not increase, thus the term terminal velocity. It is dependent on the aerodynamics of the particular object and each object has its own coefficient depending on its shape. I doubt a giant turtle carrying an island on his back would have superior aerodynamics. But who knows, if you dropped it upside down with that pointy mountain looking down at the players, you might reach really high speeds.

Com


----------



## Jack Simth (Sep 12, 2005)

comareddin said:
			
		

> Well, falling objects  should have damage cap as well. It is all about terminal velocity actually. More air resistance applies as you increase velocity. When you reach that terminal velocity the air resistance is equal to the force applies by gravity so your speed does not increase, thus the term terminal velocity. It is dependent on the aerodynamics of the particular object and each object has its own coefficient depending on its shape. I doubt a giant turtle carrying an island on his back would have superior aerodynamics. But who knows, if you dropped it upside down with that pointy mountain looking down at the players, you might reach really high speeds.
> 
> Com



Ah, but there's a catch with TV - it's not just aerodynamics - air resistence scales with area (fa(x) = x^2), while weight (and thus force from gravity) scales with volume (fv(x)=x^3) - so if an object that just barely fits inside a 1 inch cube has a TV of Y, then a scaled up version of that object that just barely fits inside a 2 inch cube has a TV of 2Y (Y*(Fv(2)/Fa(2))/(Fv(1)/Fa(1))).  An object 12 times the size in each direction has 12 times the TV.  An object 1000 times the size .... well.... that's why large meteorites tend to leave very big craters.....


----------



## Ideamaster_1 (Jul 11, 2021)

I could get into the science, but let's keep it simple. A book hits you falling at 5 miles per hour. Very painful, could POSSIBLY kill you depending on a few factors. Now a car hits you falling 5 miles per hour. You are dead, period. And both these objects could fall much faster and we all know that, so aerodynamic or not, a Zaratan falling would be certain death. Does that mean that it would still have a terminal velocity? Yes. The damage cap is a reference for the average human, it is not taking into consideration the weight of something significantly heavier, LIKE A LIVING ISLAND!


----------



## Ideamaster_1 (Jul 11, 2021)

In other words. You are over simplifying the rules.


----------



## dave2008 (Jul 13, 2021)

Ideamaster_1 said:


> I could get into the science, but let's keep it simple. A book hits you falling at 5 miles per hour. Very painful, could POSSIBLY kill you depending on a few factors. Now a car hits you falling 5 miles per hour. You are dead, period. And both these objects could fall much faster and we all know that, so aerodynamic or not, a Zaratan falling would be certain death. Does that mean that it would still have a terminal velocity? Yes. The damage cap is a reference for the average human, it is not taking into consideration the weight of something significantly heavier, LIKE A LIVING ISLAND!



Just and FYI - this thread is 16 years old.  You a probably not going to get much traction on your response. Nice necro though!


----------

