# [Character Creation] [VtR] nWoD Vampire Game



## Graf (Dec 2, 2007)

We're now in recruiting character creation stage. Still accepting alts.
Please post if you're interested in joining us.

*********
Playing in Tokiwong's (sadly discontinued) Werewolf game a while back made me appreciate that it's possible to get a good nWoD game going on EnWorld.

WtF is obviously not the same as Vampire the Requiem but I've had it in my mind to run a Vampire game for a bit. I thought I'd check to see if there was interest though before developing things.

The game would be Vampire the Requiem

General vision
It would be set in an unnamed city in the American mid-west.
The PCs are all recently embraced Neonates (newly created vampires) who are on effectively on probation (due to political stuff -- naturally, it's vampire).
Initially the character choices will be fairly restrained, over time it should broaden out depending on the actions of the group.
Once preludes are over the initial "sessions" would have an investigatory feel; after that the tone of the campaign will depends on the group's choices (of course it's vampire, so it won't ever be fluffy bunnies)

I'm envisioning an initial arc that would last about 6 months (real time).

-Is- there any interest?


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## Jemal (Dec 2, 2007)

SHINEY!  I'm in.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 2, 2007)

Count me in, but I do not have any of the requiem books.
Will that be a problem?


-Blood


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 2, 2007)

I havent played VtR in a while. Sounds like fun.


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## industrygothica (Dec 2, 2007)

I have never ever played any WoD game, but have always wanted to give it a shot. I do have the _the books_, but still might have to be walked through a bit when it comes to deciphering them and building a character.

So if you'd be willing to add a but of fresh meat to your frying pan, I'm happy to jump in and get burned.


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## Graf (Dec 3, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Count me in, but I do not have any of the requiem books.
> Will that be a problem?



Some folks didn't have books in Toki's game and it was fine. Hopefully some of the other players will help out a bit (I don't want to have to type out too much stuff) but I don't see that as a barrier to entry.



			
				industrygothica said:
			
		

> I have never ever played any WoD game, but have always wanted to give it a shot. I do have the _the books_, but still might have to be walked through a bit when it comes to deciphering them and building a character.
> 
> So if you'd be willing to add a but of fresh meat to your frying pan, I'm happy to jump in and get burned.



I'm very happy to have new players. I don't have complete mastery of the game rules, and I don't expect players to either.

The game is about newly (probably 3 months or so) embraced vampires. Your characters will be learning about their new existences as well, so not having a lot of experience with the game might be an advantage from a roleplaying standpoint.


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## Graf (Dec 3, 2007)

So I'll count four posts by pbp board regulars as "interest". Ideally I'd like to have one or more players but maybe we'll pick some more folks up as the game goes along.

Some off the cuff stuff

*I'm planning on discussing and planning this week. If that turns into a general (or specific) discussion of character concepts that's fine. Otherwise we'll start working on that next week. (I have a bit of a commitment this Saturday).

*While you can probably take anything from the VtR book there will be some restrictions on character creation. These aren't meant to be me spitefully removing options but simply a way to structure the game initially so that the group fits together somewhat and everyone can participate initially.

*I'm thinking about a soft deadline on replying to my posts. I.e. if I post something then you have x number of hours (24? 48? 72?) to respond. Otherwise I may excerise the right to "move the game along".
(This doesn't apply if  you've given me a heads up you'll be away. I'm just talking about 'disappearances')
What do people think? (good/bad/unfair/unnecessary)
If positive what sort of time period is reasonable?


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 3, 2007)

I'd like to express my interest as well. It's not too often a WoD game pops up here, so I'm always eager to get a piece of the action. While I wouldn't call Vampire my favourite, I certainly have a soft spot for it what with all the politics and intrigue.

The time limit for responses is a good idea. 24 hours seems good, with maybe some more leniency on weekends (assuming most forum goers visit less often during then).


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 3, 2007)

I agree with Festy_Dog. 24 hours seems fine to me, but weekends do have a tendancy to slow down to a crawl. I was wondering if Bloodlines would be allowed.


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## Graf (Dec 3, 2007)

24 hours was my initial thought as well.
But I'm amenable to changing things or talking about it further if people like.
Again it's more of an "escape clause" for me than something I'd want to enforce draconianly. 



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> I was wondering if Bloodlines would be allowed.



Allowed in what sort of sense? For Neonates? No. I can't really imagine how you'd wind up being in a bloodline after only a few months.

While I haven't looked at them extensively (or at all really) my impression is that they seem to be an easy way to get extra power more cheaply, or access to a new rare/powerful discipline.
None of that makes me especially keen to proactively work to include them.

I tend to think of them as being similar to prestige classes. I appreciate the advantages they provide in terms of short hand, (i.e. of being able to say "the prince's advisor is a Toreador") or the way that you can have useful-to-the-story game effects (having some sort of powerful NPC with a particularly debilitating weakness) but I am inclined to use them rarely, if at all.

Having said that, if you have some sort of interesting character idea or background concept that is significantly enhanced by the existence of some bloodline in the world then I'd probably be very open to including it. (Ex: A character whose sire is an "art apraiser" and was embraced to settle some sort of arcane and long running dispute between a bunch of particularly academic Toreador).


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## Graf (Dec 3, 2007)

I should probably say that I appreciate that someone who's very steeped in a game and played a lot usually enjoys playing characters that are more entwined in the rules, they have lots of specific merits and disciplines the player is very keen to tie together.
(My characters are often like this actually)
I understand that, in some cases, people feel that online games are a great way to test the system. I've been in (online) games where people say "I'd never play anything like this in my regular game (and/or my DM would never let me get away with this)". While weird/quirky/exploratory characters are great (so long as they're believable and interesting) I'm not so inclined to have ones who are designed to "maximize power" or "take advantage of design flaws in the system".

At the same time this is more of an introductory level game. I'd prefer to have characters that are fun to play together (obviously fun in vampire doesn't mean the same thing as fun in DnD but...)

How do people feel about developing their mortal characters first and then moving on to the embrace? I think that would be less intimidating for people who are still getting used to the rulesset.... (industrygothica? Blood?)


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 3, 2007)

I actually have a character that I used to play at table that I would love to put into this game if at all possible **warning** He's NOT evil, but he is definetly creepy and pissy. His name is Diego. I wouldn't mind starting out as a non-kindred or even letting you decide who his sire is. If that does happen, can I respectfully request not being ventrue or the like. I enjoy playing with social vampires, not being one lol. But as with everything in these games, it's up to the GM. I won't whine no matter what lol.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 3, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> How do people feel about developing their mortal characters first and then moving on to the embrace? I think that would be less intimidating for people who are still getting used to the rulesset.... (industrygothica? Blood?)



 I like this idea. What time period or we talking about 20's, 50's, 90's, current? I am always a sucker for 1800's to early 1900 time frame. Historian hobbist. 

-Blood


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## WarShrike (Dec 3, 2007)

I am also intrested. My experience with Vampire is limited to the PC games, so like Blood, i don't have the books, but i always wanted to try it.

WarShrike


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## Graf (Dec 3, 2007)

OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> I actually have a character that I used to play at table that I would love to put into this game if at all possible **warning** He's NOT evil, but he is definetly creepy and pissy. His name is Diego. I wouldn't mind starting out as a non-kindred or even letting you decide who his sire is. If that does happen, can I respectfully request not being ventrue or the like. I enjoy playing with social vampires, not being one lol. But as with everything in these games, it's up to the GM. I won't whine no matter what lol.



Generally speaking I have -no- problems with people importing character concepts or ideas they've successfully (in the sense of enjoyed) using in other games.
You should play what you like.

I'm also happy to have people create their sire's and ultimately dictate their clans/covenants.



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I like this idea. What time period or we talking about 20's, 50's, 90's, current? I am always a sucker for 1800's to early 1900 time frame. Historian hobbist.



While I enjoy historical games (playing in one 1920s game now) and I can appreciate the inherent coolness of a vampire game that stretchs over a longer period of time I don't think I want this game to be one. In addition to raising the bar to entry for new players they're a lot more work for DMs (esp. DMs who aren't up on the time period).
If it's alright with the group I'm thinking "undefined current"; i.e. like a couple of years ago.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

Six is about what I'm looking for. Since online games have a relatively high attrition rate (and we're still at the very early stages, I'll probably take one or two more) before closing the game.

Right now I have the following 7 people on my "list"
Ashburn
Blood
Festy_Dog
industrygothica
Jemal
OnlytheStrong
WarShrike

With regard to being good/evil/creepy my instinct is not to place a lot of restrictions on player character behavior. You're free to be a jerk to people, and they're free to torpor you and go dump you in a lake. While the first arc has character behavior fairly tightly circumscribed there's nothing requiring them to associate with you once that's done.
And having no friends (or what passes for them among the undead) isn't necessarily going to make your unlife easy.

But the degree of behavior that the group is willing to tolerate is something that needs to be discussed by the group as a whole. 
This is one area where I think a viable game needs to provide a veto-option.
*So feel free to post, or to PM me, if you have strong feelings/there is subject matter you'd prefer not come up. (no explanation necessary - just a general description/sketch of stuff you'd like to avoid).*


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

Blood
[sblock]I was going to PM/email you this but you've got all that turned off. Here's the message[/sblock].


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 4, 2007)

Diego is the sort of guy that has had a rough life. He pretty much had to raise himself and teach himself how to survive on the streets. Needless to say, he became quite good with blades. He developed a no nonsense attitude, thinking that respect is the key to relationships (both criminal and social). The worst thing a person can do is disrespect him, but that is also the last thing he will do to a person without cause. If a person does show him or someone close to him what he considers disrespect, their life is usually short. 

One note on him, his sense of respect is alittle bit off. He can take people threatening him, cursing, whatever. He will become angry when his friends are disrepected and when he views someone as a threat. He's a slightly complex character, but I'm pretty for sure you guys will get the hang of being around him.  He's a nice (and scary) guy.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

Looking forward to getting to know him better.

I -think- I've addressed all the questions brought up so far.
Are their any other questions or things people want to ask before we get started?


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## WarShrike (Dec 4, 2007)

Judging by the way Skyler dresses and talks, you'd think his role model was the Fonz. A hyperactive Fonz that just won't shut the hell up. As a human, he was a small time drug dealer, good with his fists and trusty brass knuckles, which he used primarily on junkies. Kind of an alpha dog thing going there. He was also an addict. Dealing in dark alleys, he's seen most of the worst humanity has to offer. Being sired didn't change much for him. He was already an addict, so the "drug" shifted from dope to blood, but the need was the same. And so was the rush. Now he's always eager to pop a new "blood bag", wether he feels the thirst comming on or not.

Considering the way he acts and his 'hot and cold running mouth', i'd see him best as sired by a Malkavian, although in those deep shadowy alleyways, he could fall prey to a Gangrel, or a Nosferatu as well.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 4, 2007)

In the new Vampire Malkavian has become a bloodline of the Ventrue. I haven't looked much at the new version of Malkavian myself, but as it's now a bloodline Graf may have some issues with it.

There are some differences in regards to clans from the latest Vampire PC games (as 'Bloodlines' kinda heralded Gehenna). In the new WoD there are now five base clans (and five political factions, although they're another issue); Daeva, Gangrel, Mekhet, Nosferatu, and Ventrue. You can still find many of the old WoD clans or equivalents but they're bloodlines, which are more or less correctly described by Graf as being equivalent to prestige classes.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

Just to address this.


			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> My experience with Vampire is limited to the PC games, so like Blood, i don't have the books, but i always wanted to try it.



I'm not familiar with the games, but I know that one of them (the most recent one?) was well regarded. So you'll have a generally good idea about the game.

The games were based on Vampire the Masquerade; this game will be Vampire the Requiem. There are some similarities (clans exist and define your weaknesses and strengths; most of the disciplines are the same; same sort of neo-feudal society with a prince and so forth) and a lot of differences . The differences include new things (Covenants) as well as changed stuff (lots of clans are missing*, most discipline powers are the same (i.e. four dots in Auspex is still Telepathy) but the mechanics are different, some new subsystems** have been added).

*= There is no "magic" clan, like the Tremere used to be. Instead you've got two different Covenants that dislike each other strongly and have their own versions magic. So Thaumaturgy is broken up, more widely spread around, each discipline is more limited and it's virtually impossible for someone to get access to both sides of the coin (and if they do and there are some other magic using vampires in the game somewhere, you can't just use their rituals).
**=The big 'new system' that springs to mind is the "predator's taint". Vampires recognize each other on sight and have a reflexive surge of aggression (i.e. they have to check for frenzy). It's not a tough roll but meeting new vampires is usually a tense affair.

There are other's we'll address as the game progresses.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> In the new Vampire Malkavian has become a bloodline of the Ventrue. I haven't looked much at the new version of Malkavian myself, but as it's now a bloodline Graf may have some issues with it.
> 
> There are some differences in regards to clans from the latest Vampire PC games (as 'Bloodlines' kinda heralded Gehenna). In the new WoD there are now five base clans (and five political factions, although they're another issue); Daeva, Gangrel, Mekhet, Nosferatu, and Ventrue. You can still find many of the old WoD clans or equivalents but they're bloodlines, which are more or less correctly described by Graf as being equivalent to prestige classes.



quoted for truth

I should point out that the new Malk bloodline is extremely specific. Like the Brujah (and the Toreador I suppose) they've really tried to winnow the archetype down very tightly. 

I don't have a "problem" with someone starting off as a Ventrue with a connection to the Malkavian bloodline (though they almost certainly wouldn't know about it as a "bloodline" per se) but you'd wind up with a very different experience than the we-are-all-members-of-the-transcendent-uber-mind-that-shows-the-true-reality type stuff you'd get from an oWoD Malk.
nWoD Malk is more like Pi . The best chance to "succeed" in the game involves drilling a hole in your head.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> Judging by the way Skyler dresses and talks, you'd think his role model was the Fonz. A hyperactive Fonz that just won't shut the hell up. As a human, he was a small time drug dealer, good with his fists and trusty brass knuckles, which he used primarily on junkies. Kind of an alpha dog thing going there. He was also an addict. Dealing in dark alleys, he's seen most of the worst humanity has to offer. Being sired didn't change much for him. He was already an addict, so the "drug" shifted from dope to blood, but the need was the same. And so was the rush. Now he's always eager to pop a new "blood bag", wether he feels the thirst comming on or not.
> 
> Considering the way he acts and his 'hot and cold running mouth', i'd see him best as sired by a Malkavian, although in those deep shadowy alleyways, he could fall prey to a Gangrel, or a Nosferatu as well.



Gangrel and Nosferatu are basically unchanged. (Nosferatu is slightly different in that you don't have to be horribly deformed. You can be deformed, but you can also just be inexplicably creepy.)

Both would work well.

For setting reasons I'm probably going to ask/recommend any Nosferatu take Clan Status 1 at the beginning of the game. [It won't be a requirement, per se. And you're free to change your mind about this stuff at any point up to when the game begins. -- Just thought I'd mention that up front.]


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 4, 2007)

I believe (but may be wrong) that Malk is in the Requiem book, but it's towards the back when they talk about cults, clans, and other stuff that can kill us. The way my old GM explained it (which means he probably just didn't want to deal with it) was that they were basically a dying race or had "evolved". 

Graf, I was curious as to whether we were starting as mortals, then being embraced in game. If everyone else wants to pick their clan or whatever, that's fine with me. I'd prefer not knowing exactly what was going on (if we are playing very recently embraced mortals). I believe Diego was a Mehket, but whatever you want him to be is fine with me.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> Graf, I was curious as to whether we were starting as mortals, then being embraced in game. If everyone else wants to pick their clan or whatever, that's fine with me. I'd prefer not knowing exactly what was going on (if we are playing very recently embraced mortals). I believe Diego was a Mehket, but whatever you want him to be is fine with me.



I'm of several minds about it.

On one hand prequels and roleplaying turning into vampires has a lot of appeal to me. It's a big deal for the character and roleplaying that out could lead to the sort of organic character growth is attractive to me. 
Also, the big impediments to doing this in a tabletop game (everyone else sitting around and waiting/"secret" stuff coming out) can be easily avoided in an online game.

On the other hand some people don't like it. If you want to play a powerful dynamic character and the character's embrace turns out to involve (either through miscommunication, or just sucky dice rolls) soul-crushing humiliation then that can be detrimental.

My current stance is this:
I want people to create mortals first because 1) you've only been embraced recently; while you've become _something_ else those mortal memories, that mortal life, is still your primary frame of reference 2) it'll be easier for the people without books/experience to follow along.

We can then talk about the embrace. I'll run preludes (before and after the embrace) for those who are interested and the game will start with everyone meeting at one point in time at a specific place.


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## WarShrike (Dec 4, 2007)

Sounds good to me.


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 4, 2007)

Just say when to start lol.


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## Ashburn (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi Graf, Ced here!

I have no experience with WoD. Hope no experience is needed! O.O"


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 4, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> Blood
> [sblock]I was going to PM/email you this but you've got all that turned off. Here's the message[/sblock].



 I like that. I think I will take that idea and run with. Just need to know what kind of characters the people are bringing to the table. I was thinking of something like a very successful weapons developer/smuggler for the Nazi’s during the Great World War. So important was he that he was targeted by the Allies’ vampire circle to bitten and then torpor’d. This action no doubt had a significant effect and ultimately changed the outcome of the War. Almost a hundred years later he has been brought back. But by whom and for what is unknown to him. Was he brought back to repent for his old sins or create new ones? Whatever the reason all he knows for now is that he must attempt to understand his new world and his new unlife.   Thoughts?

-Blood


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

Blood,

Generally the character concept sounds good to me. (i.e. a successful weapons smuggler, targeted and taken out of action).

I will say that generally speaking, what your understanding of the situation is, and what the actual situation was may be different in the details. 
I'll post about torpor a bit. 



			
				Ashburn said:
			
		

> Hi Graf, Ced here!
> I have no experience with WoD. Hope no experience is needed! O.O"



Great to have you on board. No experience needed. With that I think we're full. I'll take an alt or two (and there's one or two people I'd probably take anyway, like Toki, since he did such a good job when he was running a game a while back) but seven is about the max I think.



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> Just say when to start lol.



Heh. Fair enough. Please start making your mortal characters. (I don't think we need a new thread for this, do we?).
Note: Only go up to Section 4 of the character creation process (i.e.) before you apply the vampire template. Most merits are availible but I'll make a seperate post about that.
I don't suppose someone has something like an excel spreadsheet or an online database do they?


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

*About Torpor*

To sum it up in a sentence as vampires age they grow more powerful (their blood potency rises -- it's a stat in the game similar to generation, except that it rises over time and is a broad barameter of power level) eventually they can only feed on other vampires. 
The only way to reduce your blood potency is to rest in torpor, the more powerful you are the longer you need to wait before it starts to drop.

Torpor is hell.
You constantly relive your worst experiences over and over again.
If you spend any period of time in torpor when you awake your memories are _different_. Sometimes it's a little different. Sometimes it's not. You can't ever really tell. I mean, if you remember fighting a dragon two thousand years ago does it mean that there were dragons back then? Or was there just a dude who owned a lizard that you didn't like and time has warped your memories to make it something it wasn't. 

So there are old vampires wandering around but they all have wildly different memories about what happened in the 'nights of yore'.
Even a vampire who's rested for 30 or 50 years can awake with a very different set of memories of events than someone who's stayed awake the whole time (of course, that person could just be lying to you...)


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

*Character Creation Rules*

You can take anything from the WoD Core book and the VtR book, except...

Certain merits (primarly) Vampiric ones aren't going to be allowed (or rather, you're free to take them, but they don't cost anything and you won't get to use them (initially)).
If/when the game reaches the point when you'd have them available then you either pay the points for them or your character has lost access to that resource. 

A good example is Retainer, you're welcome to have a loyal manservant/killer ghouled attack dog/whatever in your back-story. You don't have access to it when the game begins. Depending on how things work you may be able to get access to the retainer and renew your relationship in the future. At that point either have to pay the points or the retainer decides they don't want to come back to you. I think it's a fair way to handle things.
The merits I think this would apply to would be Resources, Retainer, Mentor (Sire only, you can have non-Sires as mentors without restrictions) and (probably) Herd.

Also, as mentioned above, people who play Nosferatu will be asked to buy Clan Status 1.

That's it. Have fun. Don't be painfully abusive (I'm hopeful that the game isn't easily breakable  but I figured I'd mention it up front).


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

*Character Creation Guide (for people without the books)*

General outline of chracter creation.

This pdf presents a more/or/less complete set of rules for character generation (albeit in a slightly different order than the books). [Here is an html verison.]

Note: For both skills and attributes the "5th dot" costs double. So Academics **** costs 4 dots but Academics ***** costs 6 dots.

For attributes you 'rank' physical mental social as primary, secondary or tertiary (urg, can't spell right now).  You get 5/4/3 dots to add to your statistics in each catagory.
Each attribute starts at 1 (i.e. you get one dot free).

Skills (Physical, Mental, Social) are also ranked the same way (i.e. prioritized by catagory) but you get 11/7/4. All skills start off with 0 dots.

Generally speaking an attribute of 2 is normal, anything three or higher is good. So it's fair to call a PC with a strength 3 "strong".
And, as Only mentions in the post below skills in the 4 to 5 dot range are demonstrate a very high level of competence. 
Personally I'm inclined to waive rolls for people with those skills in certain circumstances; but I don't want to set a hard and fast system for it yet.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

*Differences from oVampire*

This section of the wiki is actually a very good summary of the differences between oVampire (or the computer game) and nVampire.

I should also stress that this game, keeping in the theme of VtR (and my own preferences) will be primarily a "local" game. [edit: I mean that there won't be much globe trotting; while the covenants and clans exist and are similar, or the same as the book, local personalities and politics will be very important as well. Just because you're Invitus and the Prince is Invitus doesn't mean he'll be having you over to nibble on his herd and talk about how he's ruling the city.]


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 4, 2007)

Was wondering about the skills and attributes. I'm not sure about the actual rules of the book (I have to borrow it from a friend), but I remember something about the use of the "dots." Basically only a certain number is allowed, given that someone with 5 in computers would be a computer genius. Since I don't have the book right now, I was wondering if you would enlighten me.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

Only, 

I've edited the post above to reflect. I'll keep doing that going forward as I pick up more info. I'd prefer not to type it out all by myself (especially since I'm sure it's on the net somewhere) but if that's what needs to happen that's what needs to happen.

People are also welcome to PM me stuff it they want to keep it things a suprise until the game.

And do hide things in spoiler blocks so the post doesn't become unweildy. (You can do that by typing [ sblock] and [ /sblock] without the spaces.)

For example:
See characters presented below for good examples.


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 4, 2007)

Ty kind sir. I will try to restrict myself to a 3 dot maximum  I really can't see a mortal in his 20's having 5 in weaponary anyways. lol


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

For people without the books feel free to post character ideas and talk about things. The rules stuff, as far as I'm concerned, is secondary.

Also, while the character ideas posted so far have been rough and tumble types don't feel restricted to that. So long as you find the character interesting we'll find a way to make it  work for the game.


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## Graf (Dec 4, 2007)

This PDF link includes rules for character creation. Skip the parts that refer to vampires (clan, covenant, disciplines, etc) for now.


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## WarShrike (Dec 4, 2007)

Found the VtR core book in PDF online, looks nice. Hopefully it will make me less of a burden. 

***EDIT: Ignore that. For a CORE book, its lame as hell. No skill lisrts, no stat descriptions, nothing.***

***EDIT AGAIN: Hey, some of those above links net me an error 404, do i hafta be using some special browzer to see them or something?***


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## WarShrike (Dec 4, 2007)

*Skyler*
Concept: Brawler/Street Fighter

[SBLOCK=Appearance]
Skyler dresses like the Fonz, bluejeans and leather jacket. He would have looked very _cool_ 40 years ago, now he looks kind of old fashionned. He has a well toned body, slim, yet heavily muscled. He stands 5' 10" tall, with dark brown hair and dark brown, almost black eyes.
[/SBLOCK]

[SBLOCK=Background]
As a human, Skyler was a small time drug dealer, good with his fists. As a kid, he took up martial arts. He wanted to put on some muscles and keep a fine figure. The last thing he wanted was to look like a goon. He particularly liked the rigorous trainning regemens of Kung-Fu. The discipline it brought was a welcome change from the chaos on the streets, and he kept with it ever since, even though he'd long since built up the body he'd wanted. The fighting techniques were priceless in his chozen profession. It was all about Turf, and those who wanted his. The junkies and whores weren't a threat, but he had to keep them in line. These alleyways were his kingdom, and they needed to remember it, and pay homage. He never used his techniques on them, just pummelled them into submission, or smacked em around a bit. But the more dangerous foes, rival dealers, street gangs, pimps, and the variety of hoods that wanted a piece of his turf, they required more dire persuasion. 

He was also an addict. Dealing in dark alleys, he's seen most of the worst humanity has to offer. Being sired didn't change much for him. He was already an addict, so the "drug" shifted from dope to blood, but the need was the same. And so was the rush. Now he's always eager to pop a new "blood bag", wether he feels the thirst comming on or not.
[/SBLOCK]

[SBLOCK=Game Stats]
Virtue: Fortitude
Vice: Gluttony

Size: 5
Health: 7
Defense: 2
Inits: 5
Speed: 11
Willpower: 6

*Attributes*

Primary: Physical....... STRENGTH**** DEXTERITY** STAMINA**

Secondary: Mental..... INTELLIGENCE** WITS** RESOLVE***

Tertiary: Social......... PRESENCE** MANIPULATION* COMPOSURE***

*Skills*

Physical: BRAWL**** STEALTH**** SURVIVAL***

Mental: COMPUTER** INVESTIGATION** MEDICINES** OCCULT*

Social: INTIMIDATION** STREETWISE**

*Merits*

Blood Potency 2 (***)
Brawling Dodge (*)
Kung-Fu (**)

After the Embrace:
Clan: Nosferatu
Favored Attribute: Strength
Disciplines (if ever) Animalism, Nightmare, Obfuscate.
Merits: Clan Status Nosferatu (* reserved), Haven 1.

[/SBLOCK]


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## Jemal (Dec 4, 2007)

I've got an idea I've been pondering... I was wondering if it'd be ok for my character to have been studying vampires and he sought them out, in an attempt to become one?


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 4, 2007)

Jemal, have your character study the occult. He can specialize in vampyres. I'm not sure if that is exactly what you wanted, but it seems to be able to work for what you had in mind. As far as seeking them out, it's possible. Hunters find vampires, so why can't you? 

I'm still working on Diego's backstory. I think I may change him alittle from his original form. I will have his background, appearance, and personalitly later today. 

I hope I didn't step on any toes by answering Jemal's question. Sorry if I did.


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 4, 2007)

[sblock=Personality]

Diego loves a good challenge, whether it’s a fight or some kind of compound that he thinks he can sneak into. Because of this, he has been in jail twice over the last 5 years of his life. He always seems to get off for good behavior, as he knows when to stop pressing his luck. He has a rather twisted sense of honor. Respect is a huge issue for him. He usually shows people respect as long as they return the favor. 
[/sblock]
[sblock=Appearance]

Diego stands 6’1’’ and weighs approximately 180lbs.  He’s not a muscle-bound guy, but still manages to have some definition to his body. He has darkly tanned skin, black hair, and brown eyes.  He typically wears some well worn combat boots, black jeans, a Metallica t-shirt, and a long black duster. Most people simply assume he’s some sort of goth, which is fine with him. 
[/sblock]
[sblock=Background]

Diego’s parents were average. His dad was in jail for armed robbery, and his mother worked 2 jobs to try to get Diego and his 2 sisters through life. At times, life was rough. Diego began shopliftiing and stealing whenever he could so that he could help feed his sisters. He didn’t get caught until he was 16. Apparently, people frown upon a 16 year old kid stealing a $300 bottle of scotch.  Diego spent a year on probation, which did nothing. He continued stealing when he could, even got bold enough to start breaking into things. He never did houses. He got caught breaking into a Porsche. It was his first time and honestly had no idea what he was doing. He spent the next year in jail. 

Diego was released when he was 17, almost 18 and almost immediately got caught stealing again. His own friend turned him in. Diego had pulled off a great job, breaking into a bank. He took over $250,000 (which was all he could carry) and had escaped before the police had arrived. He had learned enough to keep his head down, preventing the cameras from getting a decent look at his face. He had even managed through a bit of luck to prevent the alarm from going off immediately. 

He was lucky though, he was a minor. He got sentenced to 15 years still, but was deemed worthy to be let out after only 3 years. He returned to his mom’s house. No one was there. It looked like they had left it a long time ago. Diego simply shrugged it off and went on. He needed to find some place where he could stay, but first he needed money. Diego wrapped his jacket tightly about his and moved on. [/sblock]

[sblock=Character Sheet]

*Virtue:* Charity
*Vice:* Gluttony

*Attributes:*
Int** 
Wits***
Resolve**

Strength**
Dexterity****
Stamina**

Presence*
Manipulation**
Composure***

*Skills:*

Craft*
Investigations*
Medicine*
Occult*

Athletics** (specialty footchase)
Larceny**** (specialty Lockpicking)
Stealth***
Weaponary**

Persuasion*
Streetwise*** (specialty Black-market)
Subterfuge*** 

*Merits:*
Fleet of Foot **
Fighting Finesse **
Contacts***

*Disciplines*
Vigor
Obfuscate*
Nightmare**


*Size:* 5
*Defense:* 3
*Initiative:* 7
*Speed:* 13

*Health:* *******
*Willpower******

*Humanity:* 7
[/sblock]


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 4, 2007)

Is content from the Armory book available for characters?


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> Is content from the Armory book available for characters?



I have no idea what's in the armory book. What do you want to use? How do you think it'll add to the story?



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> I've got an idea I've been pondering... I was wondering if it'd be ok for my character to have been studying vampires and he sought them out, in an attempt to become one?



That is more than fine. I think it offers a relatively large number of character possibilties. Especially if joining the Damned doesn't measure up with what you thought it would be like.
If you're an academic you would know a lot about Vampires-as-humans-understand-them and occult-oddities-that-could-be-related-to-vampires/vampirism. Which can be useful very useful, but is different than being a walking encyclopedia of the modern-vampire world.
Your character would be familiar with all sorts of weird lore that most of the Damned aren't aware of (e.g. in sections of Eastern Europe legends suggest that vampires are dead werewolves who's bodies were not properly blessed).

You might, in the right situations, be able to figure out a lot more than other people, but you it wouldn't be like your character has read all the published White Wolf books and knows that (for example: The Malkavians are really a secret bloodline within the Ventrue).


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Only, WarShrike and Only,

Thanks for being so prompt. I'll make some time today to look over it and give feedback.



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> Haven't done equipment yet. Will add it to here when I get time to do it.



Don't bother too much. You won't have access to much in the way of gear when the game starts. I.e. feel free to have stuff in your background and you'll be able to carry around small personal effects (i.e. if you've got a favorite holy bible, or a picture or something) but you won't have much of what roleplaying gamers consider "gear".


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> Found the VtR core book in PDF online, looks nice. Hopefully it will make me less of a burden.
> 
> ***EDIT: Ignore that. For a CORE book, its lame as hell. No skill lisrts, no stat descriptions, nothing.***
> 
> ***EDIT AGAIN: Hey, some of those above links net me an error 404, do i hafta be using some special browzer to see them or something?***



Yeah. The core rules are in the World of Darkness Core book. It's counter intuitive but it "helps" in the sense that each of the books don't repeat the same information.

Sorry it's a frustrating process for you. I just checked again and all of the links work for me. Are you surfing at work? Some companies have some pretty aggressive firewalls.


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> I hope I didn't step on any toes by answering Jemal's question. Sorry if I did.



You didn't step on my toes, certainly. You made it clear you were speaking for yourself and were polite/sensitive to the fact that your suggestions were just that.

Personally I like/enjoy group interaction during character creation.

We're all going to be playing a game together, everyone has their own expectations things they like/dislike about gaming. This is the first step in a process of getting used to playing together.
So talk it up (politely of course, but you're doing that already).


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for the kind words Graf.

Okay, I'm looking for alittle help here. I ran into a slight problem when I made my character. I am going for the experianced thief aspect. I may change his skills in Brawl over to Firearms, but I don't know. Basically, what I'm asking is for ideas on how to make him a better thief without forcing him to become a one dimensional character. Thanks in advance.


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: Skyler*

I like the concept. It's simple and evocative.

Some follow up questions
What is your virtue? Your vice?
Why does he dress like the fonz? (is it just his thing?)
Why beat up junkies? They're easy targets but they rarely have money. Is it a self-loathing thing? Is it just reflexive (i.e. he beats up people around him)?
(To a certain degree this is explained by saying he-does-lots-of-drugs-and-is-weird but even junkies usually have internal explanations for things).

How did you learn Kung-fu? Why?

With a strength of 4 (soon to be 5) you're pretty big. It's not included in your description but I assume that you worked out a lot. With a base die pool of 9 plus brass knuckles plus whatever Kung-fu does for you're going to be extremely good at beating the **** out of things. That has advantages, and has the potential to have serious disadvantages.

I'd like it if you saved one of your beginning merit points -for- Clan Status Nosferatu. To keep things fair people who participate in preludes won't get any more xp than people who do.
You could bank one point in blood potency and make up the difference in xp (so you'd be blood potency two relatively quickly after the game starts).



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> *Skyler*
> And so was the rush. Now he's always eager to pop a new "blood bag", wether he feels the thirst comming on or not.



Does pop mean kill or beat up?
I feel obliged to warn you that repeatedly beating people up for fun is going to have extremely adverse effects on your humanity.
If you're a) superstrong b) high all the time you'll wind up killing people. As your humanity plunges you start to 1) go crazy (get derangements) 2) pick up unwanted attention from other vampires*.
(*=This applies a bit less to you if you're Nosferatu, why will become more clear as the game progresses. But it's not cart blanche immunity either.)


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: Deigo*



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> Thanks for the kind words Graf.
> 
> Okay, I'm looking for alittle help here. I ran into a slight problem when I made my character. I am going for the experianced thief aspect. I may change his skills in Brawl over to Firearms, but I don't know. Basically, what I'm asking is for ideas on how to make him a better thief without forcing him to become a one dimensional character. Thanks in advance.



It's a good question. I'm not sure that I have an easy answer. Personally Larceny 4 in a character 1) in his 20s 2) with no "training" or mentors suggests some kind of extreme natural skill. 

Personally I'd be inclined to say that you are naturally gifted but a stay in prison, listening to war stories and hearing people's secrets is what really got you that last dot.

By the book (I think don't have it with me right now) you can already pick pockets, hotwire cars, break into security systems., etc.

Generally speaking the game forces people to prioritize (especially during character creation). I see that as being a feature. It seems to me like your character concept is 'naturally' specialized. You're a high-school dropout with a natural gift in an area who's already been through the prison system twice. It doesn't seem abnormal for you to be good as good as you are, per se.

As for being "a better thief" I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would enhance your thieving abilities (other than more/different specialties). There may be some sort of merit that would help but nothing really springs to mind.

"one dimensionality" is a feature of roleplaying. If you play Diego as someone with a life, with interests, then I think you'll be able to afford it.

Some follow up questions about Deigo
He seems to be following in his father's footsteps. Is that conscious? How does he feel about his father? (does he look down on him for not being as "good" as Diego is)
Going through prision is a life changing experience, be it three years or thirty. How did it affect Diego? Who does he know? With his skills maybe he was involved in a smuggling racket (cigarettes, drugs, whatever)?
Who are your contacts? (people you know from prison? friends of your dads? a guy you when to school with who's now a cop?)
A young guy with good skills who knows how not to push too much probably got invitations about getting involved in the business on the outside. How did he react?
Why the goth gear? Does he like the style even if he's not part of the scene? Does he like metallica or does the T-shirt have some sort of other significance?
You also have Kung-fu.... Maybe you studied together with Skyler (OK. It's unlikely, but it would make for a weird/interesting character connection).


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## WarShrike (Dec 5, 2007)

I'll work the answers into my story and appearence where applicable.
As for the other stuff...



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> And so was the rush. Now he's always eager to pop a new "blood bag", wether he feels the thirst comming on or not.




It means to sink his teeth into a human, and guzzle down. Though not neccessarily killing (unless it's an enemy). He's a blood junkie always on the lookout for his next fix. He won't kill a human without good cause. It's not in his best intrests to wipe out his food supply (that's his view, he could care less what other vamps think).

Changed Merits to save one for Clan Status Nosferatu.

I'm not sure what the Merits and Vice/Virtue do. I'm not finding descriptions. For Merits, i went with whatever seemed best for barehanded style fighting. For Vice, i was thinking Gluttony, *IF* it means what i think it does, as in the quote above.

As for the links that wont work, it's those listed as PDFs, which is wierd, cuz i got Adobe installed, and got alot of PDFs. All the others work fine.


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 5, 2007)

The Kung Fu thing will disappear soon. I can't seem to explain it properly as I was hoping to. He will probably go with a firearm, as I honestly can't see him as a "slug it out" type. I was struck by how similar he turned out to his father as well. It was purely on accident to me. I will add to his personality and background the answers to your questions; but to be short about it I will also answer them here. 

Diego never meant to follow his father's way of life. He was simply trying to help feed his sisters and help out his mother. It's sort of how he can justify his stealing from places. He refrains from stealing from people, which is something his father did. 

Diego doesn't really care about his father one way or the other. He kind of resents that the man left his family (even though he was actually taken), but understands that he cannot hate the man for that. He is sort of cold about it.

Diego actually managed to stay out of serious trouble in prison. He did get to know some of the gangs pretty well, and managed to become "friends" with a couple of guards. He managed to make an agreement while in prison, his protection for him running supplies. This is how he managed to have ties with the black market and the drug world. He doesn't use drugs or even smoke, which the local gangs seemed to like. 

The inmates and even the guards turned out to be a valuable source of information. The jail gangs have their own "cells" on the outside, which is both great for information and dangerous. (Plot twist? lol) He never got contacted about becoming a part of the gangs, and he was glad of it. He figured they saw him as more of a "free cell" which he was fine with. It also gave him alittle bit of power to either accept or deny the gang's proposals. 

Diego's inmate contacts taught him some of the finer aspects of his life. By that I mean that they taught him tricks he never would of thought of by himself (like how to unlock his own cell).

The goth gear is part of his "blend in by sticking out" thoughts. It's proven helpful to him before, as most people who spot him tend to focus on his clothes before looking at his face. (Metallica shirt just because I like them and their shirts  )


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 5, 2007)

Warstrike.....

Vices and Virtues are ways to allow a person to recover spent Willpower. They do have a tendancy to put a person into danger though. Their descriptions are alittle different than what I would of assumed they would be just from their names. 

To use your vice, Gluttony (and mine to) as an example, it can be used as a vice for anyone who over indulges on anything. Gluttony for my character, is his need to steal. The vices seem to overlap some for me, but maybe I just view things different. I think the vices and virtues are on page 100 of the WoD core book. If not, then it's close to there lol.


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> It means to sink his teeth into a human, and guzzle down. Though not neccessarily killing (unless it's an enemy). He's a blood junkie always on the lookout for his next fix. He won't kill a human without good cause. It's not in his best intrests to wipe out his food supply (that's his view, he could care less what other vamps think).



Ok. Something like that is extremely reasonable. 
It's also worth pointing out that whenever you drink from someone on drugs you get their high.

Changed Merits to save one for Clan Status Nosferatu.



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> For Merits, i went with whatever seemed best for barehanded style fighting.



Fair enough. There are a lot of different fighting merits, I don't know what they all do. My image of the kung-fu merit as that it's more like kung-fu martial arts from movies. There's some kind of picture near the kung-fu merit that's like a comic book with one guy doing this fancy kick and then the other guy leaping from a crouch to knee him in the face (which sounds more like Muay Thai but anyway)
In my opinion taking a merit like that means you've studied. Probably at very serious dojo (or gym or whatever) with a teacher who took it very seriously.
It's easy to write into a background.



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> For Vice, i was thinking Gluttony, *IF* it means what i think it does, as in the quote above.



 It does and it would work extremely well in the context  of your character.



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what the Merits and Vice/Virtue do.



Fair enough. I'll post about Vice/Virtue below.

Merits = Feats. 
The staged ones (i.e. where you can take multiple dots) generally give you a staged bonus. So striking looks ** gives you a +1 to (certain) social rolls and striking looks **** gives you +2.

Fighting Merits are the exception. They're staged (i.e. you can take multiple ranks) but they're really more like Disciplines in that each one unlocks a new fighting technique you can use. (Which sounds like a video game I suppose but...)




			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> As for the links that wont work, it's those listed as PDFs, which is wierd, cuz i got Adobe installed, and got alot of PDFs. All the others work fine.



OK. It's the same as the HTML link next to it.


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

*Virtues and Vices*

BIt of an explanation so I don't have to do too much detailed work.

Basically they're a roleplaying tool to encourage characterization. If your character acts out their *vice *you get a willpower point. You can do this once a night (I think).

*Virtues *are similar except that if you manage to fulfill the requirements you get all your willpower points back (i.e. if you have 5 will power and you're down to one point you get 4 points).
(I need to double check, to my recollection Virtues are a bit tougher to hit. If your virtue is Hope it's not enough to just "act hopeful" and get your willpower points back. You have to do something; usually something that would put your character at a disadvantage.)


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

*Willpower Points*

Willpower is like action points in Eberron.

You have Willpower *dots* and _points_.
Your dots are the maximum willpower you have have.
Your points fluctuate. You can spend them to do stuff (see below).

It can be used to
*Enhance a roll (before it's made; you get three extra dice to roll -- certain rolls can't be affected by willpower)
*Add two dots temporarily to resist certain social or mental pressures (note: this is because you're not "rolling to resist", your resistance pool is just applied against your opponents pool -- reducing the number of dice they have available).
*Power certain powers (a lot of powerful discipline are "powered" by willpower points)
*Fulfill certain requirements (i.e. making a ghoul costs a willpower point, and another point each month that you keep feeding them; making a vampire costs a willpower *dot*)
Do other stuff (in certain circumstances you can spend points, or rarely, dots, to represent some kind of tremendous effort of will; including temporarily shaking off the effects of certain Majesty powers)


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

*Merits*

This isn't a complete list.

    * Allies - Influence within an organization, such as police, government, etc.
    * Barfly
    * Contacts
    * Brawling Dodge (you get defense+brawl instead of defx2 when dodging; doesn't work against guns)
    * Boxing - Fighting Style
       - Body Blow - if you do damage >=opponent's size they're stunned
       -- Duck and Weave - use higher of dex/wits for def vs brawling attacks
       --- Combination Blows - two attacks against one opponent; 2nd at -1 (lose defense)
    * City Status
    * Danger Sense
    * Direction Sense
    * Disarm
    * Encyclopedic Knowledge
    * Fame
    * Fast Reflexes
    * Fighting Finesse
    * Haven
    * Inspiring
    * Iron Stanima
    * Kung-Fu - Fighting Style
      -Focused Attack - penalty to hit called shots (brawl only) reduced by one
      --Iron Skin - armor 1 vs brawling attacks only
      --- Defensive Attack - maneuver: lets you take +2 def -2 attack
    * Language
    * Meditative Mind
    * Mentor
    * Resources
    * Striking Looks
    * Stunt Driver
    * Unseen Sense (mortals only)


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Warshrike,
Having looked at the book I think Skyler almost certainly has Fighting Style: Boxing instead of Fighting Style: Kung-fu. Boxing, as it's presented in the book, is really more about brutalizing people with your fists. Kung-fu seems to be more about making jabs to the throat and defensive fighting.


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## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Warstrike,

Last thought. If your character's an experienced drug user you might have a specialty in Street Drugs for your medicine skill. It would cover stuff like identifying drugs, knowing what they're called, what they're worth, what effects they have and who they're popular with, etc.


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## Jemal (Dec 5, 2007)

Allright, my roomate has the source material, but I've only made 1 character with the new book before, and he was a full-out human, so I may need a little assistance.

First offf, when you said make them human first, did you mean design a human character, and then AFTER that you'll tell us what to add for the vampires?

And as for my knowing vampires background, I was actually hoping to put a few points into various skills to account for him having a similar level of 'general vampire knowledge' to what I know (Keeping in mind that I don't really follow the WoD Storyline, so it's not going to be rules mechanics, etc).  IRL I'm a bit of a vampire freak.. Read the books (Fiction AND non-fiction), watch movies/documentaries, etc, and that's what I was thinking for the char in this case, as well.


----------



## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Only,

Great answers! I don't want to push forward too much further until I see what the other characters bring to the table.



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> The Kung Fu thing will disappear soon. I can't seem to explain it properly as I was hoping to. He will probably go with a firearm, as I honestly can't see him as a "slug it out" type.



Kung-fu requires explanation. People are welcome to take it if they want provided it fits with their character background.
There's nothing wrong with Brawl as a skill. Growing up in crappy neighborhoods means fights. Being in prison means fights. You can get a lot of fighting experience without looking for trouble.
(Not that I personally have any idea about it, but it's the world of darkness, so things can be pretty tough).

Two in a skill represents general facility in the area. 
For example (Just cause I was thinking about it): Skyler's Medicine of 2 doesn't mean he's tried to become a doctor. It just means that he's got some experience with healing up (himself and others) and maybe some experience with something else. If push came to shove could he try to stich up a wound? Sure.
Would it be a nasty mess? Oh yeah. But he'd be marginally better at it than someone who's never 

Firearms 
1) probably require some sort of training (unless you just want to have 1 dot) and/or a lot of practice shooting guns (growing up on a grazing farm out in the wilderness where they have wolves or in a hunting family) 
2) you almost certainly won't have guns at the start of the game (though you'll probably be able to get them with some time and the proper connections)


----------



## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Allright, my roomate has the source material, but I've only made 1 character with the new book before, and he was a full-out human, so I may need a little assistance.



No problem. We've got some (admittedly haphazard) stuff on the thread already.



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> First off, when you said make them human first, did you mean design a human character, and then AFTER that you'll tell us what to add for the vampires?



Basically yes. It just means, skip section 5, which involves "adding a supernatural template".
(of course if you want to buy supernatural merits like blood potency, or whatever, you need to save some merit points from section 7 for that)



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> And as for my knowing vampires background, I was actually hoping to put a few points into various skills to account for him having a similar level of 'general vampire knowledge' to what I know (Keeping in mind that I don't really follow the WoD Storyline, so it's not going to be rules mechanics, etc).  IRL I'm a bit of a vampire freak.. Read the books (Fiction AND non-fiction), watch movies/documentaries, etc, and that's what I was thinking for the char in this case, as well.



This is tough.
I think I have a solution. I'll PM email you.


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 5, 2007)

I came up with a totally new solution for Diego's fighting problem  Knives. I figure a knife is easy to conceal and everywhere in prison. I think it fits more than him being a brawler (low strength wouldnt' help him much). Anyway, I'm happy with the new decision. Lemme know what you think. 

Jemal, you playing yourself? I don't mean that in a bad way, the very first vampire I created was based off me. Except he had no grasp on the judicial system. Anyway, I like all the concepts and think it will be alot of fun playing with you guys.


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for clearing up the Merits & stuff, i understand a bit better now. I made some changes to my character, although the Kung-Fu remains. I think i've explained it rather well.

I do need some clarification elsewhere though. Thankfully, it just requires a Yes/No answer.

As it stands, im building this character on the premise that his skills/merits cannot go higher than their base stats/prereqs. 

Example #1: I have 4 Strength, so i took 4 Brawling, if i wanted 5 Brawling, i'd first have to raise my Strength to 5 dots.

Example #2: Kung-Fu prereqs are Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, and Brawling. I only took 2 dots in Kung-Fu because although my Strength and Brawling are each at 4 dots, my Dexterity and Stamina are each 2 dots. To get more dots in Kung-Fu, i must first raise both my Dex and Sta.

Am i doing this right?

Oh, and btw, my thoughts on Medicine were running paralel to yours. I took it thinking he would know about legal drugs, their effects, and most importantly, their side effects. This in order to cut his drugs with something else or make his own homebrew snort dust. So the specialty you mentionned does indeed appeal to me. 

Wait, cross out the smile, must remember, im the Fonz.


----------



## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Good suggestion regarding the knives. I'm really indifferent as long as it fits.

Glad to see we're on the same page regarding Medicine. With 2 dice and sub-par mental skills (even with the specialty) you're not going to be whipping up stuff in your bathroom (at least not stuff that anyone would want to buy) but you could do simple creation activites, identify purity/strength in a casual setting, make guesses as to who's high and what they're on, etc.



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> As it stands, im building this character on the premise that his skills/merits cannot go higher than their base stats/prereqs.



I don't believe this is a rule I've seen anywhere.
So you can, for example, be a complete social misfit (low social scores) but very functional on the street (high streetwise).

Personally, I have to say that having a really large pool of dice in combat is less useful in vampire than in other games*. It fits your character concept well, and I have no problems with it, and there will almost certainly be fights, but there will also be many situations where it will be neutral (i.e. won't help you) and/or could be a hindrance (indirectly, but a hindrance none-the-less).

The above is just a general statement. Neither meant to encourage or discourage any particular choice.

*=i.e. Werewolf, where a lot of social situations can basically be turned into combat situations by challenging people who disagree with you to a duel and then beating the snot out of them.
Then they have to agree with you. 

Vampire? Doesn't work like that.


----------



## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Just checked. Merits and skills are independent of their base stats.

Once you've fulfilled the prerequisites you can take as many dots as you like.

For fighting styles Boxing and Kung-fu are listed as specialties. I don't know if that means you need to have the specialty (in the skill) before getting the merit or just that you get the benefit of the specialty when making rolls with the merit (the latter seems like it makes more sense).

I'm still thinking Skyler would have FS: Box and not FS: Kung-fu.


----------



## Graf (Dec 5, 2007)

Going off line for about 14 hours. Have some rl stuff to get done.


----------



## Jemal (Dec 5, 2007)

No, not myself - I've played myself in campaigns before, And It's not as fun as it sounds, though it can be entertaining (Short term).  I just like the concept of a mortal who studies vampires and then tries to become one b/c he's become obsessed with them.


----------



## industrygothica (Dec 5, 2007)

Sorry I haven't been too active in the thread thus far; my schedule at the beginning of the week is horrible, but lightens up a bit on Wednesdays.

I've been thinking about a character, and I think I'd like to do something like a high school teenager--probably a loner from an abusive home or something.  Probably a female, and a stereotypical goth.

I've got a back story in mind, and will start on it this afternoon, but as far as vampire traits go, I'm completely at a loss.  Am I picking her clan or are you?  If I am, are there any suggestions?  She'll be more intelligent, less social, and faster than she is strong.  From the cursory glance I've given the different clans, I'm thinking Mekhet?

Input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 5, 2007)

I am going to try to put someting to gether within the next day or two. I am still not too sure if I am leaning towards smuggler or techie. 

If someone is creating a thief, my character could fill the role of a fencer. Knows who to talk to in order and where to go to get the best deals for 'acquired' goods. 

Just thought. 


-Blood


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 5, 2007)

A fencer would have pretty good social skills wouldn't they? Call me odd, but social vampires are scary as anything.


----------



## industrygothica (Dec 5, 2007)

*Beth Johansen*

[sblock=Background]They were fighting again, and their screams rang out through the night like a blast from a shotgun.

Beth stood in the driveway of their middle-class home, leaning up against the rear bumper of her mother’s SUV staring out into the empty street in front of her.  Black tears streaked down her face, ruining the gothic make-up she spent so much time on. 

“Figures,” she said to herself as she wiped it away, leaving an angry streak across her face and hand.  She’d gotten into the lifestyle a few years ago, enjoying the freedom that being a goth offered.  People stayed away from you, expected you to be weird and overemotional… suicidal.

She’d never do it, she knew.  She hated life, but was too scared to die, at least by her own hand.  She’d hoped for an accident, or even a disease to help her along, and engaged in the appropriate behavior to give it a kick start.  The only thing she got out of that was a nice new addiction: adrenaline.  Playing on the highway, walking on the ledges of the tall buildings downtown, or unprotected sex, if she wasn’t supposed to be doing it, she was.

And she kept on living.

The screams got louder, fiercer.  It would come eventually, the inevitable sound flesh to flesh-she never knew who’d be slapping who-and that’d be the end of it, just like that.  

Until tomorrow.

She gazed up into the stars, one final tearfall splattering on the concrete by her feet.  She didn’t say it, but her thoughts echoed louder than any words ever could have.

_God, take me._[/sblock]
[sblock=Stats]
	
	



```
Virtue: Hope
Vice: Lust

[b]Attributes[/b]

Intelligence.....***        Strength.........**         Presence.........***
Wits.............***        Dexterity........***        Manipulation.....**
Resolve..........**         Stamina..........**         COmposure........*


[b]Skills[/b]

[b]Mental (11)[/b]
Acedemics.....***
Computer......***
Occult........*** (specialty: witchcraft)
Science.......**

[b]Physical (4)[/b]
Athletics.....**
Stealth.......**

[b]Social (7)[/b]
Animal Ken....*
Empathy.......** (specialty: lies)
Persuasion....**
Subterfuge....** (specialty: lying)
-------------------------------------

[b]Merits[/b]
Common Sense....****
Eidetic Memory..**
Fleet of Foot...*

[b]Health:[/b] *******
[b]Willpower:[/b] ***
[b]Humanity:[/b] 7

[b]Age[/b] 17
[b]Size[/b] 5
[b]Speed[/b] 11
[b]Initiative[/b] 4
[b]Defense[/b] 3
```
[/sblock]


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 5, 2007)

Industrygothica, you're missing 1 Attribute dot. You've got 2 at 4 dots and 1 at 3 dots.


----------



## industrygothica (Dec 5, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> Industrygothica, you're missing 1 Attribute dot. You've got 2 at 4 dots and 1 at 3 dots.




Cool.  Thanks for looking it over for me.  I'm surprised that's all I missed, this being the first WoD character I've ever made.  Please, let me know if there's anything else.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 6, 2007)

Cool - another WoD game, after so long! 
I don't know of any others since the very-high-quality one years ago.

Festy!  Weren't you in that one with us?    
Has anyone else seen another vampire IC game on  ENWorld since this one, 5 years ago?
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=35038


----------



## Graf (Dec 6, 2007)

*Some stuff about Clans*

I'm actually still a bit swamped for the next 72 so my responses may get shorter (which may be like "becoming normal sized").

industrygothica
You character looks great. 


			
				industrygothica said:
			
		

> >Eidetic Memory..**



What a terrible merit to have if you haven't got any happy memories.



			
				industrygothica said:
			
		

> I've got a back story in mind, and will start on it this afternoon, but as far as vampire traits go, I'm completely at a loss.  Am I picking her clan or are you?  If I am, are there any suggestions?  She'll be more intelligent, less social, and faster than she is strong.  From the cursory glance I've given the different clans, I'm thinking Mekhet?



More than fair, you've come a brilliant distance so far. I think you're character is evocative but simple (while still having some nice depth and roleplaying opportunities).
Honestly I'm also happy that she's female (obviously gender isn't a massive factor in Vampire but it's nice to have a bit of diversity). (I'll take more diversity btw, if people have ideas that flow that way).

Here's how I see it:
Before the game "officially begins" the player and the ST (me) work together to make a character. We work until everyone comes to an agreement. The game offically begins -after- the characters are embraced. Choices, especially choices like clan, have a big impact on your character and their development (it's better than in oWoD, where it could be the overwhelming characteristic but it still can invalidate valid character choices).
Those choices I want you to have feedback on. Some people, have indicated that they're willing to let me pick but would prefer something (Warshrike prefers Skyler be Nos I think), some will take anything but would prefer not X (i.e. Diego doesn't work well as a Ventrue), some people will want to specify.
Some people have indicated they want to play preludes (i.e. roleplay before the game begins) that is something I'd like to do, I don't know if I can run seven of them at once, and still get the game going. I see that as part of the discussion between the player and ST about character development.

Mehket works well with your character concept and is a good clan to play. They have an excellent selection of extremely useful disciplines (Auspex especially).

If the group winds up being "balanced" with a range of abilities that is fine, but I really don't care. This isn't DnD, the dungeon doesn't require a careful combination of classes to advance.
The kinds of characters you choose to play will effectively decide how the game works out. If people are tricksy and sneaky the game will take on that sort of cast.

I should say that (I don't think this is going to happen) if the group winds up being composed mostly of combat monsters (i.e. people with no problem solving/deductive skills) you'd probably find yourselves in a lot of painful, unbalanced fights.
It's not a law or anything, but, if I run the game properly, there will be some layers.

Does that help?


----------



## Festy_Dog (Dec 6, 2007)

Hey reaper, it's been a while.

Since then there's been a few world of darkness games. A Masquerade game set in the 20s that never got off the ground was the most recent. Before that there were Tokiwong's games, a Mage one and a Werewolf one. Can't distinctly remember anything before that.


----------



## Graf (Dec 6, 2007)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> Has anyone else seen another vampire IC game on  ENWorld since this one, 5 years ago?
> http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=35038



Cool! Thanks for the link to that. I'll skim it over if I get a chance (i.e. sometime after next week).


----------



## Festy_Dog (Dec 6, 2007)

Graf, could I get your email for discussing some character ideas? Mine is festydog (at) gmail (dot) com.


----------



## industrygothica (Dec 6, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> What a terrible merit to have if you haven't got any happy memories.




I've tried to make her somewhat of a tragic character, so it seems fitting.



			
				Graf said:
			
		

> Mehket works well with your character concept and is a good clan to play. They have an excellent selection of extremely useful disciplines (Auspex especially).




Fantastic.  I'll do some more in-depth reading on them, then.



			
				Graf said:
			
		

> Does that help?




Absolutely!  Thank you.


----------



## Graf (Dec 6, 2007)

War,

I wanted to wait until I had a minute to check but the Nosferatu disiplines are Vigor, Nightmare and Ob. No animalism.
Each clan has one physical displine (except Daeva, who have 2). Other than the unique disciplines (of which each clan has one), and the Covenant disciplines, every discipline is possessed by two clans. (So Vigor is held by Nos and Daeva, Animal by Ventrue and Gangrel, Resilience by Ventrue and Gangrel, etc.)

Skyler is going to be stupidly strong.


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 6, 2007)

This is what I have going so far. 
Could use some help/advise with it as I am a bit lost..
I put down some merits that I thought would be in line with the character but I was not to sure on how many dots to put in. Plus I was not too sure if there were flaws that one could take to increase thier amount of merits. Finally I am wiery of what clan to be. Thoughts? Help [sblock=Background & Personality] Just as World War 2 began, I was one of the most success weapon smugglers for the Nazi regime. There wasn’t a factory in Europe that I didn’t have connections with and there wasn’t a armory I didn’t know about it. I was on a first name basis with over half of the commanding generals and the other half called me in for assistance at least once. Historians have only speculated on how the Nazi war machine was outfitted, while I know. Of course that was almost 70 years ago and it is strange to think that, for me, it all happened almost year ago. 

It took me sometime to adjust from the 1930’s to the new millennia. It wasn’t easy, especially since now one told me why I am the way I am and what I did to deserve it. But none the less, here I am, a walking corpse living the life I only use to hear in story books. However truth be told, my life today is only marginally different than my previous life. The only thing different is that instead of just smuggling weapons, I know handle all kinds of things. Its true what they say about life, the more things change, the more they stay the same. 

Personality: Here is more of a talker than a fighter. He has often boosted that he has had people do things against their better judgment all the while thinking it was their idea. He is not over confident or cocky and knows his when to quite while he is ahead. Even with his new abilities, he is constantly aware of limitations and makes it a point to stay well within them. Though if there is an item to be moved, or a job that needs a certain skill level, often then not he knows someone who can make it happen. For a price of course.[/sblock][sblock=Stat Block]
	
	



```
Character Name: Cole Braddock    Creature Type: Human
      Concept: Smuggler/Fencer         Virtue: Temperance 
      Apparent Age/ True Age: 25/95    Vice: Greed

          Physical (3)     Social (5)          Mental (4+1)
      Strength: O        Presence: OO        Intelligence: OO
      Dexterity: OOO     Manipulation: OOO   Wits: OO
      Stamina: OO        Composure: OOO      Resolve: OOOO

          Physical (4)     Social (11)         Mental (7)
      Athletics:         Animal Ken:         Academics: 
      Brawl:             Empathy:O           Computer: O  
      Drive:             Expression: O       Crafts: OO
      Firearms: OOO      Intimidation:       Investigation: OOO
                                                (Fruad & Counterfeiting)
      Larceny:           Persuasion: OOO     Medicine:
                            (Negotiating)
      Stealth:           Socialize: OO       Occult:
      Survival: O        Streetwise: OOO     Politics:
                            (Black Market)
      Weaponary:         Subterfuge: O       Science: O

              Disciplines (3)           Merits (7)
            Dominate: OO              Contacts: OOO
            Resilience: O             Allies: O
                                      Resources: O 
                                      Striking Looks: OO
 
    Crúac Rituals/Theban Sorcery/Coils of the Dragon/Devotions 

            Health: OOOOOOO            Humanity: OOOOOOO
            Willpower: OOOOOO          Speed: OOOOOOOOO
            Vitea:                     Defense: OO
            Size:                      Intiative: OOOOOO
```
[/sblock]
-Blood


----------



## Ashburn (Dec 6, 2007)

*More or less completed*... appreciate any advice. Thanks.
[sblock=Background]
Ash woke up drenched in a pool of blood. The first thing she remembered was the throbbing at her abdomen. Then came the coppery stench of the viscous blood. She could not remember how she got there or why or what happened. She had pale translucent skin. Jet black hair, long and silky straight to the waist, covering half her face. Thin frame. Terrible barbed-wired scars ran across her arms. She had no idea how she got the scars. The scars appeared fresh and recent. It was dull pink when she woke up, but sometimes it pulsates dark scarlet. 

~~~~~~~~~~
After the Embrace... Ash operated out of her haven, near a club where her herd are located. She did not know how she got the Cruac. Ash was like a gang head/cultist sort of figure. Her medicine* comes from pushing street drugs. Her firearms* comes from blackmarket arms business. The stay in business she relied a lot on her "social" skills.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Character Sheet]
*Virtue:* Fortitude (?)
*Vice:* Wrath (?)

*Clan:* Ventrue
*Covenant:* The Circle of the Crone

*Attributes:*
Int***
Wits***
Resolve**

Strength*
Dexterity***
Stamina**

Presence*** (Favored Attribute: Ventrue)
Manipulation***
Composure**

*Skills:*

Occult**** (Witchcraft, Magic)
Investigation** (Body Language)
Medicine*

Larceny***
Firearms*

Empathy***
Expression**
Intimidation***
Persuasion***

*Merits:*
Haven (Location)*
Haven (Security)*
Herd**
Natural Immunity*
Toxin Resistance**

*Disciplines:*
Cruac*
Dominate** (Clan Discipline)

*Size:* 5
*Defense:* 3
*Initiative:* 5
*Speed:* 9

*Health:* 7
*Willpower* 4

*Humanity:* ??
*Blood Potency:* *
[/sblock]


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 6, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> War,
> 
> I wanted to wait until I had a minute to check but the Nosferatu disiplines are Vigor, Nightmare and Ob. No animalism.




The link you pasted states that we must choose at least 2 of our 3 disciplines from the clan pool. The other is chosen at will, and subject to Storyteller approval, except the common ones: Celerity, Obfuscate, Vigor, Animalism, or Resillience.

Regardless, its fine by me. I also have annother character concept i will be tossing out, now that i understand the process better. Let me know which one you like better.


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 6, 2007)

Ok, character concept #2. Oh, and once again, unsure what these specific merits do, but they sounded real nice.

Name: Biggs
Concept: Ex-Marine Vampire Hunter

[SBLOCK=Appearance]
At 5' 4", Biggs isn't the most intimidating sight on the streets. That said, he doesn't get harrassed by the street scum either. With his customary camo pants, combat boots, long black leather overcoat, and crew cut, people tend to think he's either a skinhead or one of those gun worshiping revolutionary wackos. He has an calm and alert demeanor, and an inquisitive gaze that puts people at ease, yet informs them that he's always ready for whatever may come.
[/SBLOCK]

[SBLOCK=Backstory]
Biggs was an average youth, born into a military family, all he wanted growing up was to serve his country and do his part, as had his parents and older brother. He enlisted at age 19, but was assigned to the Army Reserve. Life went on for him, while he waited for a chance to prove himself. It took a few years, but eventually the Gulf War broke out and he was shipped off to the middle-east, and transfered into a Marine unit.

One day, his squad was reported missing, not having returned from a night-time wide patrol duty. He was found beaten to within an inch of his life, left for dead, and the sole survivor of a massacre. When he'd been nursed back to consiousness, all he could do was rave about comming across a man in the dark, and of claws and teeth that tore his squad apart. The military concluded that the shock of surviving what had to have been an enemy abush, and watching his friends die horribly must have been too much for him, and he just lost it. Rather than letting this turn into a media circus and having people back home wondering what kinds of drugs the soldiers were using over here, Biggs was honorably discharged, with a light compensation. As far as the military was concerned, the matter was filed and forgotten.

But for Biggs, it was like being reborn. He knew what he'd seen and knew what he had to do. He had to protect his countrymen from this threat. As a youth, he'd been obsessed with the military, so his knowledge of the horror genre was almost non-existant. Now that he knew vampires were real, he had to admit to himself that the other so called classic monsters might also. So began his schooling. He went to see every horror movie he could, and rented every B movie and classic horror video he could find. This wasn't entertainment, these were trainning ops. These lessons were often contradictory, and he had to find out what actually worked first hand. Of the few vamps he dusted over the next few months, he learned that garlic was useless, crosses were pretty iffy, silver only seemed to affect one vamp, so he had to wonder if it even had been a vampire. His sawed-off shotgun and 9mm automatic succeeded in bringing his foes down, eventually, but it was a long process. Then some more recent films suggested decapitation. He rather liked the idea as it worked for every other living thing that he knew of.

An axe would be too unwieldy and difficult to conceal. Thus began a new chapter of his mission, reasearching fantasy and martial arts movies. He was instantly bored with modern films. Everything was speacial effects and bull****. The movies made it look like the protagonists knew what they were doing with those swords, but he knew better. He was fascinated with the old black and white oriental movies depicting ninjas and samurais. Here were people who seemed to know what they were doing, and if some old folks in bronze pijamas could do it, why couldn't he? He settled on the Katana/Wakizashi combo. Although using both at once was very difficult, slowly but surely, his skill improved. He didn't always use them in tandem, but he had to if he ever expected to get really good at it.

Now, at 28 years of age, the mission continues. He's a Street-Samurai on the prowl, looking for his next victim, hoping he can one day purge the vampire menace from this city.
[/SBLOCK]

[SBLOCK=Game Stats]
*Biggs*
*Ex-Marine Vampire Hunter*

Clan: Gangrel
Attribute: Stamina
Disciplines: Animalism, Protean, Resilliance
Virtue: Justice
Vice: Wrath
Health: ******* (7)
Defense: ** (2)
Size: ***** (5)
Speed: *********** (11)
Inits: ****** (6)
Willpower: **** (4)

*MERITS:*
Ambidextrous ***
Fast Reflexes *
Fighting Style, Two Weapons **
Quick Draw *

*ATTRIBUTES:*

STR: ***
DEX: ***
STA: **

INT: **
WIT: **
RES: **

PRES: **
MANI: ***
COMP: **

*SKILLS:*

ATHLETICS: *
FIREARMS: * (SPECIALTY: MILITARY ISSUE)
STEALTH: *
WEAPONRY: ****

COMPUTER: *
INVESTIGATION: *
ACCADEMICS: ** (SPECIALTY: HORROR FILMS)

ANIMAL KEN: **
EMPATHY: ** (SPECIALTY: MANIPULATION)
INTIMIDATION: **
PERSUASION: ***
STREETWISE: **
[/SBLOCK]

***Edit: 3 Specialties it is, i'll leave em on the low dots. A description would be welcome Only, i'm just hoping Fighting Finesse = D&D Weapon Finesse.***


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 6, 2007)

One thing I noticed with a couple of character sheets is the specialties. You start with 3. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if/how you can get more specialties. The specialties give you a +3 to your roll, so they are something to be considered. 

Warstrike, those merits will fit him well I believe. I can give you a full description, but it would only be from the book  

Bloodweaver........that's up to the ST, but a very good question. I would have ur contacts be pretty high, because that pretty much is how you live. Allies may be important to, as that would make people think twice about hurting you. Graf will have to decide again on Herd. I'd say that was the least important of them though. I'd put it Contacts, Allies, Resources, Herd. but that's just me lol


----------



## Graf (Dec 7, 2007)

Ashburn said:
			
		

> *Incomplete*... appreciate any advice. Thanks.



Looks good to me! I know you're swamped but when you have a sec take at look the email I sent you re: the Circle.


----------



## Graf (Dec 7, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> The link you pasted states that we must choose at least 2 of our 3 disciplines from the clan pool. The other is chosen at will, and subject to Storyteller approval, except the common ones: Celerity, Obfuscate, Vigor, Animalism, or Resilience.



Right. I see your point.
I was under the impression that the 3 clan disciplines are still your clan disciplines; but yes you can of course allocate the final dot in character creation however you like.
You are more than welcome to take animalism.



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> Regardless, its fine by me. I also have annother character concept i will be tossing out, now that i understand the process better. Let me know which one you like better.



I like Skyler!
He's easy to write stories for. But you're free to play who you like. I'll take a look at the other character later this afternoon.


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 7, 2007)

I found a website that describes Merits. Not fully, but enough to get the basics. I'd appreciate a deeper desription of the Fighting Style, Two Weapons though, Only, if and when you have the time.   

Heres the link: http://www.wantonwicked.net/wiki/index.php?MeritList


----------



## Graf (Dec 7, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> If someone is creating a thief, my character could fill the role of a fencer. Knows who to talk to in order and where to go to get the best deals for 'acquired' goods.





			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> A fencer would have pretty good social skills wouldn't they? Call me odd, but social vampires are scary as anything.



OK. I confess. I thought people were talking about fencing. Like with a sword. I also thought that we were talking about Only's character.

I was like... "so he's a street kid, with a foil? but he needs to have good social skills? Isn't fencing weaponry?"
I'm glad I restrained from posting. I would have looked pretty dumb.



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> One thing I noticed with a couple of character sheets is the specialties. You start with 3. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if/how you can get more specialties. The specialties give you a +3 to your roll, so they are something to be considered.



You can acquire specialties in game; with xp (i'm sure I've seen it somewhere).
I thought specialties only gave you 9 again? (plus sometimes I'll let them stretch what you can do)
I'll need to check that.



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> Warstrike, those merits will fit him well I believe. I can give you a full description, but it would only be from the book






			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> Bloodweaver1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Blood. Glad you're back and keeping the concept. Contacts are tricky for a newly awakened character. But I think that Festy actually solved that problem for me (I can explain that more clearly in a bit).

Regarding Backgrounds "Social Merits" (such an irritating term, people who've played oVampire know what backgrounds are but it's basically stuff that's like your "connections" Allies, Contacts, Herd, Mentor, Retainer, Resources): Please see
this post noting especially



			
				Graf said:
			
		

> Certain merits (primarily) Vampiric ones aren't going to be allowed (or rather, you're free to take them, but *they don't cost anything* and *you won't get to use them (initially)*).
> The merits I think this would apply to would be Resources, Retainer, Mentor (Sire only, you can have non-Sires as mentors without restrictions) and (probably) Herd.




Re: Extra Merits
There are, thank god, no flaws in nWoD.
Generally the only way to get extra merit points is to say that you've experienced some kind of horrible horrible trauma (after you're embrace) and this baptism by fire has somehow enabled you to be extra good at stuff.*
Basically you sacrifice points of humanity in exchange for merits.
Honestly, I'm not a tremendous fan of the system.
It has the effect of making "tough guy/psycho" characters who are already top heavy with combat abilities even more top heavy.

*=It could also represent some sort of "experienced" character whose been alive undead for a long time and suffered the slow degeneration that all vampires experience. That's not an option in this game though.


----------



## Graf (Dec 7, 2007)

Blood,

I like the character. I think we're approaching 'done'-ness.
I'd like to run your prelude first actually, chronologically it will occur prior to everyone elses. It won't be that long, just a few scenes.

I can start around Monday but let me know what works for you.



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Finally I am wiery of what clan to be. Thoughts?



See this post about clans noting especially



			
				graf said:
			
		

> Choices, especially choices like clan, have a big impact on your character and their development.... Those choices I want you to have feedback on.



I should basically say "you should pick". 
I think WoD has done a good job of "divorcing" the clans and allowing them to fit any character concept.

Your character could be
Daeva -- he's a wild, self-centered sort of guy; he's got friends all over cause he's likable. Sure he sells guns to reprehensible people, but he's still great fun to drink with
Gangrel -- rough and tumble, you know men are beasts, so they're claws are made of steel and gunpowder now, so what? 
Mekhet -- the insightful sort, maybe he fell into the trade, or maybe he just did what he always does, sees something that other's missed and seized upon it
Nosferatu -- people may hate, you but they fear you. If they want to deal with you they bring cash, and no matter how profitable the deal was they're always anxious to be out the door
Ventrue -- very easy to imagine, but I haven't the time to write a pithy sentence.

Personally my first reaction was Ventrue, but any clan works.


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 7, 2007)

For the Fighting Finesse Merit, could i choose Swords, and use both the Katana and Wakizashi with my Dex? Or do i have to choose one specific sword, and in that case, would it be possiblt to take Fighting Finesse again at a later time?



			
				Graf said:
			
		

> You can acquire specialties in game; with xp (i'm sure I've seen it somewhere).



On that HTML sheet you posted on Page 2, lists cost for other specialties as well as new Merits.

***Edit: Ok, here it is: New Specialties cost 3xp. Merits cost 2xp x dot or for dots 1-5: (2/4/6/8/10).***


----------



## Graf (Dec 7, 2007)

*See you in 24*

I need to drop off line for 24.

I've got something I need to make a big push on. I should come back up Sunday with responses on Sunday and start the first prelude Monday (or as soon as Blood's ready).

Sorry about leaving responses on your second character option in limbo, War.


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 7, 2007)

Went with Ventrue and I believe the character sheet is done or at least close to it. 
I would be greatful for a second/third/forth pair of eyes. 

Whenever works for me. Monday is just fine. 


-Blood


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 7, 2007)

Warstrike, this is for Two Weapon Fighting. 

Prereq:  Dex*** and Weaponary ***

(with this and the Ambidextrous merit there is no -2 offhand penalty)

* Whirling Blades--your characters Dodge trait is not penalized by multiple attacks, until the number of attacks exceeds your weaponary skill. 

**Deflect and Thrust--your character gains +2 defense for his turn, but suffers a -2 attack penalty. He may move no farther than his speed when using this skill in a turn. 

***Focused Attack--your character can attack a single target twice in the same round. Your character cannot use his Defense in the same turn in which he intends to use this skill.

****Fluid Attack--your character can make a single attack against 2 targets in a single round. The targets cannot be farther apart than your speed trait. Your second attack suffers a -1 penalty. Your character cannot use his Defense in the same turn in which he intends to use this skill. 


pg. 112 of the Core book for anyone who wants to check it out.


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 7, 2007)

Okay Graf, I think we were both wrong (apparently I was using a house rule) anyways. Specialties are on page 54. They gain a +1 modifier in addition to any other modifiers that apply. Sorry for being dumb on this! lol


I think I will be in the Nos clan. If that's okay.


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## WarShrike (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks Only, i appreciate it.


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 7, 2007)

Anytime.


----------



## Graf (Dec 8, 2007)

Back but only quick answers.

War, will come back to you on the ventrue sword thing soon.



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> Okay Graf, I think we were both wrong (apparently I was using a house rule) anyways. Specialties are on page 54. They gain a +1 modifier in addition to any other modifiers that apply. Sorry for being dumb on this! lol



Got it. +3 seemed like a lot. I'll read up on it myself.



			
				OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> I think I will be in the Nos clan. If that's okay.



Sounds good to me.

Please pick a way in which you're creepy or unsettling to people around him (you can just be butt ugly, but even then a line about _how_ you're unattactive would be a big help to me).


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## Graf (Dec 8, 2007)

*'My World of Darkness" or Welcome to the CIty*

I think everyone knows and understand that different people see games differently. It's apparent to me that some people and I have divergent views on aspects of the world of darkness.

I invite you to consider the following possibilty.
That, certain things which may be true in the majority of the world of darkness are not true everywhere, in the location the game is set (the deliberately unammed City) are different. I don't think anything will be so radically different as to genuinely shock you. Some vectors upon which we may have divergent expectations

1. Degree of Darkness
2. Roll and function of Covenants in Vampire society
3. The generally rights of individual vampires; especially young ones
4. The various social roles Prince, Primogen, Sheriff, Harpy

I think preludes will clear up a lot of my views on this. -I- don't see my choices as being weird, per se but having seen people's backgrounds and so forth I am aware that I seem to have different interpretations.
Personally I feel that *No character is finalized until Preludes are done.* So you'll have a chance to make minor changes. On the other hand we do need to get characters locked down so we can start.

So if something bothers you I encourage you 1. mention how you feel to me and 2. to consider think of it as being trapped in a weird suburb of the World of Darkness that nobody goes to.


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## Graf (Dec 8, 2007)

*Initiative/Celerity/Tigger Conditions/Retractivity*

Online games are like a story that we all right together (in practice even if we think about it as a roleplaying game).

There is always, IMHO, tension between the DM and the player giving too much detail and going on too long and not enough.

Here's how I see it
I'm going to lean toward putting out too much detail. You'll arrive in a room and probably get a paragraph of text, some opening responces from people, etc etc.

I don't have any problem with pre-empting.

Example:


			
				Graf said:
			
		

> The group arrives.
> The room is fancy, blinds are drawn.
> Some people, x, y, z and their ghouls.
> X and Y keep talking.
> Z snears when the group approachs and says "too cool for you".




You can post that when your character first enter the room they do something that would change all that. If necessary we'll just edit the original post and "re-write stuff". So if PC ones says, as soon as I see y I frenzy, pull out my machine gun and open fire then I'll probably just go back and edit the first post, maybe even including the first round of the players actions.

On the other hand:


			
				Graf said:
			
		

> The group arrives.
> The prince is there. He smiles and says. I'm not who you think.
> The prince suddenly turns into a dragon and breaths fire on you!




I would look ascance at a player saying "Wait. The instant I see the prince I want to shoot him with my anti-dragon gun".
I don't think this would be a problem, but I thought I'd mention it now.

*Celerity*
Celerity includes a 'pre-empt' feature in VtR (similar I think to the one they had in live action). In a game that has no soak rolls the celerity defense bump can be a big deal. So I want to encourage people to use it.

Combined with the lag of playing on the internet and a desire to be fair there is potential for havok. I'd like to ask people with celerity to give me a one line sentence about their *celerity trigger*.
You can make it as broad as you like "i.e. any time I think someone is attacking me", however a particularly broad trigger could have false starts.
Basically you'll get Perception (Wits + Composure). You flub and you think you're being attacked when you aren't and trigger Celerity (paying the usual price).

The goal is to avoid situations where I need to stop the game too frequently to say "do you want to pre-empt?"


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

*On the creation of sires and character backgrounds more broadly*

I kind of fell into starting this game. As a result I created a few core NPCs to sort of play around however many members of the vampire community are not fully fleshed out.
I don't see this as an earthshattering problem because
1. NPCs can be easily adapted as the game progresses
2. the PCs won't know a lot of other kindred when the game begins (it's a game about neonates)
3. it gives people a chance to contribute to the creation of the world

So people who can contribute to the production of their own sires are a big help to me (and very much appreciated). 
At the same time it has to fit the city (see the My World of Darkness post above) and also, ideally, drive forward the various plots.

Please don't think that, if a character point you have is lost in the shuffle or some aspect of a character you've created winds up wildly different that it's meant to be some sort of comment on the depth/neatness/coolness of the idea, or the characer.

It isn't. I just want to get the game started, I have a bunch of NPCs, some intial story stuff and a desire to get the game started soon.


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

*Mechanics of Frenzy (Predators taint)*

How do people want to handle the Predator's Taint? I was thinking intitally that I would just indicate that someone was a vampire with a v when they first appear and people would roll themselves.

ie.







			
				A city scene said:
			
		

> You see three women walking down the street in front of you, a readhead (v), a blond and a brunette.



Now thought I'm thinking that since their blood potency "sets" the effect, and the fact that somebody frenzying really changes the whole scene that I should just roll.
(I mean... if the person next to you may screaming and attacking that person then you can't really post an action. Or else -everyone- gets preempted which is a big waste of time).

Of course, potentially it means that You could wind up with the first action in a scene where you meet a new vampire not having any choices really.

What do people think?

*******************
Obviously there will be times when we just finesse the whole predators taint thing so the story doesn't keep getting interupted. But as newly embraced vampires getting used to having to deal with your inner Beast is part of the roleplaying, no?


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

War, Biggs is very cool. His prelude will be 3rd.  I understand he's gangrel sorry about saying Ventue earlier.

I don't see Occult: Movie Lore as being particularly functional.

Movies themselves are pop culture, so something like Academics (Film) would be a normal specialy.
You could take Academics (Horror Films) and I'd consider you an very detailed on the subject (+2 dice).
If you wanted you could get Academics (Vampire Movies) and you'd be a living encylopidea (+3) on the topic.

Or you could just take Occult 2 (Supernatural creatures)  and say that your obessive and detailed focus on watching movies on that topic has given you some general insights.


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Went with Ventrue and I believe the character sheet is done or at least close to it.



Obviously Ventrue is a natural fit for your character. I can't seem to find your attributes and skills.
I need the attributes, at least, before Monday. Or a pointer to them, since I may just be an idiot and not finding them.

 As I mentioned before your Allies, Resources and Herd are "free" at the start of the game.
You'll get them, or the chance to buy them, later on.

You are welcome to "bank" those points (I.e. invest the points in those stats now; you'll get the merits for free when they become availible) or spend them somewhere else and buy them later.

I have generally recommended to people that they spend the merit points on stuff that will be availible when the game begins but it's up to you.



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Whenever works for me. Monday is just fine.



Basically prepped. 

Need your answer to the question in my next post before we begin.


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 9, 2007)

I was thinking about this little........nos trait...... for Diego. I have 2 concepts, you pick.

1) How about if he goes through a small transformation during gaps between feedings. The longer he goes without feeding, the more like a corpse he looks. The effect would be strictly visual and purely an illusion. 

2) He is seemingly out of focus. To describe it better, people would see him as if they had only caught him out of the corner of their eye. They can see him, but not the details of his features. The "odd" part would generally occur with non-kindred I would think. Especially when someone talks to him (is looking right at him) and still can't see him clearly.


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

*Preludes or keeping the pool clean*

I've spent a few days thinking about preludes.

Unlike Toki's game, the preludes aren't going to be like a pregame-game. They will be very guided. (An uncharitable person might say "railroady"). I can really only respond by saying that my primary goal is to get the game "launched". I can't run too many preludes, I can't run them for everyone, etc. etc.

I really do respect the right of players to do whatever they want, once the game begins. The trick with roleplaying is that I think you need to have a certain amount of information before you really have a choice about what you want to do.
If you walk into a room in a castle and there's a dead body you know (or have reason to beleive that) the room is a threat/there's a trap/someone is hiding there/whatever. If you wander into a room and the DM is like "a trap goes off, you get knocked out, and somebody takes your stuff and then you get sold into slavery" that's dirty pool.

Of course in Vampire they don't really leave obvious signs around like dead bodies around their "trapped rooms". (OK that's a dumb metaphor. I'll stop now.)

So the preludes are going to be about letting chracters and, the player characters as a whole, have a reasonable idea about what can happen to them in the world.

Plus you'll have some stuff happen that will give you (as individuals, if not as a group as a whole) some short term motivations. Stuff to do, people you know, etc. etc.

I need each of the people who're getting preludes (so far)
I.e. Warshrike, Blood and Festy to answer the following question:

You will have limited available set of choices. Would you prefer to 
Pick your chocies, which will make it like a choose your own adventure (some of you will have some craptacular choices to make)
Have it more or less dictated to you; you can post and roleplay but things will sort of progress on their own

Generally speaking the results of combats are decided (they're decided mostly because the fights are very lopsided)
Would you like to run those combats normally? (practice fighting, see if your character gets in a lucky shot, etc) -- this has some potential to change things, but it won't really change the "begining state" of your character.
Do you want me to run them? (i.e. more or less autopilot)
Do you want to gloss over it (i.e. Biggs jumps into the nest of vampires, but there are too many of them, he's quickly overwhelmed)?


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 9, 2007)

I'd go any way you want about it, it's fine by me. I can also see the pick choices option working, so as to set a sort of precedent fot his attitude. But either way, their fates are sealed, and no matter how lucky they get in battle, they are still going to be embraced.

Also, i will drop Fighting Finesse. I will drop DEX to 3 dots, raise STR to 3 dots, and take 2 more dots of merits, one of which will be Quick Draw.

I will also take Academics (Horror Films).


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 9, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> Obviously Ventrue is a natural fit for your character. I can't seem to find your attributes and skills.
> I need the attributes, at least, before Monday. Or a pointer to them, since I may just be an idiot and not finding them.
> 
> As I mentioned before your Allies, Resources and Herd are "free" at the start of the game.
> ...



Sorry about that. I must have only copied have the character sheet. The full sheet is now posted here.
I think I will keep the character as is and just bank the extra points until I can utilize them. 

To answer your questions:
- Running combat would be fun since I have no idea how to do it. 
- No autopilot and No glossing

-Blood


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 9, 2007)

Diego is finished. He's still on page 2 though lol


----------



## Festy_Dog (Dec 9, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> I need each of the people who're getting preludes (so far)
> I.e. Warshrike, Blood and Festy to answer the following question:
> 
> You will have limited available set of choices. Would you prefer to
> ...




Hmm, I'd be happy to go with the set of choices, and have combat glossed over.


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I think I will keep the character as is and just bank the extra points until I can utilize them.



Cool. Your choice.



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> To answer your questions:
> - Running combat would be fun since I have no idea how to do it.
> - No autopilot and No glossing



Got it. I don't know if I have any combat scenes set for you, but I'll keep the fighting request in mind.

We "need" skill specialities but why don't you just pick them after we finish the prelude and before the game starts. ("Need" = don't really need but it's technically required for your character to be complete).
Or else I've missed something.


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> I was thinking about this little........nos trait...... for Diego. I have 2 concepts, you pick.



I'm glad you've decided not to be butt-ugly. That's kinda boring.

Wow. Those are both cool and flavorful. Very creative.
Personally I think they're also a bit too magical. And the first one also can be avoided and or is something that all PCs go through. The "curse" really represents the "Nos weakness' (i.e. that ones detract successes and you never get 10 again). 
So it has to be general, but vague. it affects vampires and mortals and it's something that is a hinderance to your interactions without being easy to put a finger on.

How about this (it's a play on your second idea) sometimes, when people see you at the corner of your eye, they think you're making extreme hostile expressions. Glowering, snarling, predatorily licking your lips, sneering, rolling your eyes, whatever.
Of course when they glance over you aren't doing anything of the sort. It's the sort of thing that puts people on edge, makes them uncomfortable around you, but doesn't say "magic".

Your character may never know exactly what your curse is btw, you just know that people who seem cool with you at first suddenly turn cold, people don't like sitting next to you on the train, etc.

Feedback please.


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

War,

That works. I'm still building the structure of your prelude. I'll see what sort of interesting choices we can put in.


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> Hmm, I'd be happy to go with the set of choices, and have combat glossed over.



Understood.


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## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

Is it possible to keep rolls hidden on invisible castle? I.e. roll a spot check and only show it to people if it's a success?

(Sorry, I know my Keeper does something like this for his CoC game but not details of how it does it).


----------



## Graf (Dec 9, 2007)

*Invisible Castle*

We'll use a set format for rolling on Invisible Castle. 

Please put [VtR]CharacterName as your characters name (so I can to a search and pull all the rolls in for your characters at once).

I'll to the same thing for NPCs.

So Diego would be
[VtR]Diego
If you're rolling then please make sure to be specific about what it is (in the notes) so Total dice pool, what skills etc.


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 9, 2007)

That's a great one for me. If you wanted to, you could make it whatever you want without telling me. Those were just some ideas that popped into my head.


----------



## industrygothica (Dec 9, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> We'll use a set format for rolling on Invisible Castle.
> 
> Please put [VtR]CharacterName as your characters name (so I can to a search and pull all the rolls in for your characters at once).
> 
> ...





I don't know how the others feel, but for me and the interest of speeding things along, I'm perfectly comfortable with letting you handle all of Beth's rolls for me.  That way you don't have to tell me what to roll and then wait for me to do it; you can just do it all in the same post and carry on with the story.

As far as I'm concerned-if you chose to do it that way-you don't need to prove your rolls on Invisible Castle either.  I've always thought it a colossal waste of time getting everything logged, rolled, and formatted when it's so much easier just to drop a handful of dice and move on.

But hey, maybe that's just me.


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 9, 2007)

I'm fine either way. If if would be easier for you to roll, that's fine. 

Don't tell DarwinofMind though, I drive him crazy at our table games, cuz I am always rolling my dice.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 9, 2007)

Yea I have no idea what the specialities are so we can wait on those if you want.

I am cool with letting you make the rolls as well. 


-Blood


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 9, 2007)

Bloodweaver, I'd be willing to help you with specialties. Do you know what areas you want to specialize in? (in general of course) If so (and if you don't mind me offering advice) I will be more than happy to go through the book and give examples of specialties. Maybe you will like them, or maybe they will give you an idea. Up to you of course.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 9, 2007)

Onlythestrong - Sure I would greatly appreciate help. Like I said I have no idea how the 'specialties system works. Are there requirements to get one, are there limites to how many one can have..? ANd please by all means suggest away. 


-Blood


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## Graf (Dec 10, 2007)

Good to know how people feel about the rolls. I admit that in tabletop I find the fedishization of rolling a bit irritating. Usually I just have a printed out piece of paper with random numbers and cross things off. 

But we have a bit more time online, and I only actually have one ten sided die in real life.

I'll just do the rolling and link for now then. And we can come back to it later once the game gets started properly.

(Only, thanks for helping Blood with the specialties!)


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 10, 2007)

You start with 3 specialties. The only "requirement" starting out is that you have a dot in the skill. You can have all 3 specialties in one skill or spread them out. It's totally up to you. A specialty is basically something that your character has alittle extra experience at. With your characters set up, I would suggest (but by no means do you have to) place at least a couple of ur specialties in social skills. 

For example:   For the Persuasion skill you can use Fast-Talking, Inspiring Troops, Motivational Speeches, Oratory, Sales Pitches, Seduction, or anything else you can come up with. 


If you let me know what skills you think you would like specialties in, I can give you the examples from the book. The examples for the persuasion skill that I listed were listed in the book. I hope I helped out at least alittle.


----------



## Graf (Dec 10, 2007)

And Blood's Prelude has begun.

I'd forgotten about the profanity filter. This is going to make playing the game "Mighty ____ing interesting" as the Prince would say.


----------



## Ashburn (Dec 10, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> And Blood's Prelude has begun.
> 
> I'd forgotten about the profanity filter. This is going to make playing the game "Mighty ____ing interesting" as the Prince would say.




Good to hear, lets go!


----------



## Graf (Dec 10, 2007)

Blood,

Don't feel btw that you need to actually make a long post detailing everything that's ever happened to your character. Your memories prior to falling into torpor are jumbled (we'll address some of it in the next segment of the prelude).

You -can- just respond with 


			
				Sample said:
			
		

> "... and then I'm afraid must have gone insane. I remember being in Egypt but it's a mixed up jumble. And now I'm awake. Here with you.
> 
> <add whatever questions, etc. you'd like cole to make>




You wanted higher detail and the waking up scene seemed like the best place to start.


----------



## Graf (Dec 10, 2007)

Characters that I currently have are all up on the character page now.

Festy had everything written up but was some sort of computer failure and I know Jemal is working so I'm pretty bullish as to how we stand.

Now it's just a question of getting the preludes done and out so we can get launched.


----------



## Graf (Dec 10, 2007)

industrygothica,

We need to talk/think a bit about Beth's state at the start of the game. You could be similar to Ash and have little memory of how you got to your current state; personally I think that's tough to roleplay but I know some people find that easier.

What would you like to do?


----------



## Graf (Dec 10, 2007)

I think I actually have a way to include Beth in a mini-prelude, if that works for you industrygothica.

I'd also like to have a way to pm or email people. I don't know if that's too intrusive, but I have it set up that if my keeper messages me in another game I play it runs to my email and I think we've found it pretty convenient.
People I can already easily get in touch with are Festy, Jemal, Ashburn.

Thoughts?


----------



## industrygothica (Dec 10, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> I think I actually have a way to include Beth in a mini-prelude, if that works for you industrygothica.
> 
> I'd also like to have a way to pm or email people. I don't know if that's too intrusive, but I have it set up that if my keeper messages me in another game I play it runs to my email and I think we've found it pretty convenient.
> People I can already easily get in touch with are Festy, Jemal, Ashburn.
> ...




I can't see as an amnesiac.  I somehow pictured her as a loner, left to figure things out on her own, but I can adjust to whatever you have planned.  A mini-prelude is fine (at least I think; I guess I haven't really grasped that concept yet).  Let me know what you need me to do.

As for email, you're more than welcome to send me some whenever you need to.  Same name, at gmail.


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 10, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> I'd also like to have a way to pm or email people. I don't know if that's too intrusive, but I have it set up that if my keeper messages me in another game I play it runs to my email and I think we've found it pretty convenient.
> People I can already easily get in touch with are Festy, Jemal, Ashburn.
> 
> Thoughts?



 Works for me. 
r
i
k
u
s
(at)
y
a
h
o
o

-Blood


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 10, 2007)

OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> For example: For the Persuasion skill you can use Fast-Talking, Inspiring Troops, Motivational Speeches, Oratory, Sales Pitches, Seduction, or anything else you can come up with.



So I can pick anything for anything as long as it makes sense? Do you mind throwing out some more suggestions? I am still trying to understand the system. I get the concept just scketchy on the system.

-Blood


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 10, 2007)

Do you have any certain skill area where you think a specialty would help?


----------



## Graf (Dec 11, 2007)

ig,
blood,

You should both have emails in your boxes. (PS feel free to delete your addy's from the posts to avoid spam if you like).


----------



## Graf (Dec 11, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> So I can pick anything for anything as long as it makes sense?



Yes and provided it's not abusive but is useful. 
Which is a tricky line (for example since horror films is so limited i'll let  War roll 2 more dice when using his Academics (Horror Films).

I also tend to look at holistically. For example "military issue" as Biggs Firearms skill isn't listed as a possible specialty in the book. Specialties are usually something like "pistol" or "rifle". 
So I considered the following factors
1. Biggs only has a skill of 1. 
2. People with formal military training learn on a variety of specific weapons. It makes sense that he'd be much better with an M-16 than a AK-47; ditto the standard US Marine sidearm vs some-random-pistol.
3. Military issue gear isn't normally available to civilians and Biggs doesn't have access to the sorts of merits that would guarantee him automatic access. As the ST I can control or limit his access to tools that give him his bonus.

So it's got little chance of destabilizing the game, it makes sense for the character and on the off chance that it does have some sort of adverse impact it's easy for me to limit in the game (military is cracking down on smuggling, some drug dealers just bought up the local supply, whatever).



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Do you mind throwing out some more suggestions? I am still trying to understand the system. I get the concept just scketchy on the system.



Honestly it's better to think about things you want your character to be really good at and work from there. The number of possible choices approaches infinity.
You can also always just define them later after the game begins.


----------



## Graf (Dec 11, 2007)

Blood,

Your email gave me an error message. For now I'll post the content here.


----------



## Graf (Dec 11, 2007)

Beth's Mini-Prelude has also began. I'll try to get as many of these up and running as I can to speed up the process of getting to the game.


----------



## Festy_Dog (Dec 11, 2007)

Here's my finished character. It may be subject to a couple of changes but this should more or less be the finished product.

[sblock=Stats]
Name: Judas Archer
Apparent Age: Anywhere from mid-twenties to early forties.
Virtue/Vice: Temperance/ Apathy
Clan/Covenant: Mekhet/ Invictus
Willpower: 00000
Blood Potency: o
Humanity: ooooooo
Blood Pool: ?/10
Defence: 2
Health: 0000000
Initiative: 5
Speed: 9

*Attributes*

Mental: Intelligence ooo , Wits oooo , Resolve oo
Physical: Strength oo , Dexterity oo , Stamina oo
Social: Presense o , Manipulation ooo , Composure ooo

*Skills*

Mental: Academics (research) ooo , Computer o , Investigation ooo , Occult oo , Politics (conflicts) ooo , Science o
Physical: Firearms (pistols) oo , Larceny o , Stealth o
Social: Empathy oo , Intimidation o , Persuasion o , Socialise o , Subterfuge oo

*Merits*

Barfly o
Combat Marksmanship o
Mentor (sire) ooo
Technophile (firearms) oo

*Disciplines*

Auspex oo
Obfuscate o
[/sblock]

[sblock=Character Information]
*Appearance*
Judas is friendly on the eyes but utterly forgettable. He's fairly average when it comes to height and weight. He is just another white guy, and his quiet and unthreatening demeanour means he is easily looked over. To be more specific regarding his appearance; deep-set grey-blue eyes, short brown hair tinged with blonde at the temples, a well-trimmed coppery goatee and a warm smile. He usually changes his appearance to suit the venue he is going to be working at, but when he has a choice of what to wear he favours heavier, more conservative outfits in dull, earthen tones. Since his embrace, due to the gunshot wound to his neck, Judas has taken to keeping his neck heavily bandaged. The bandages are usually obscured by shirt collars, scarves or turtlenecks.

While Judas puts forward a reserved, almost librarian, appearance underneath his heavy apparel he possesses a number of tattoos. The largest is a six-armed crucifix that takes up a large portion of his back. Each of its six points has a Latin phrase written around it. The next is a tattoo of the Hanged Man tarot card on his upper right arm. The last is a yin-yang symbol over his heart. He still keeps hold of a pair of round-lens sunglasses that he used when he was alive. These nights he uses them in the presence of large quantities of artificial lighting, as being Mekhet he finds exposure to such unpleasant. Judas has an accent that defies origin, most assume his accent to be Canadian but it changes subtly now and then.[/sblock]


----------



## WarShrike (Dec 11, 2007)

We got xp? I missed that. And are we all Invictus?


----------



## Graf (Dec 11, 2007)

No. Festy has decided of his own free will that he wishes to give up humanity. 
After some discussion and thought I've allowed that since most of the stuff that he bought (being able to speak arabic, having an encycopediac knowledge of firearms) isn't what I would consider unbalancing.

I realize that I discouraged this choice in the thread and people have respected that and I do appreciate it. At the end of his prelude I should very much like to hear opinions as to whether people felt he made the right call.

If it's OK I'd like to wait until after his prelude is done before we talk about whether the situation is fair, etc etc. I think people will have more information and it will be easier to discuss then.


----------



## OnlytheStrong (Dec 11, 2007)

I know you said to wait, but I'm facing not have electricity for days here (ice storm). I personally don't care since I don't think it made anything unbalanced. The only problem I have is that you did tell us one thing, then allow another. Doesn't really effect me either way, since I wouldn't of done it lol


----------



## Graf (Dec 11, 2007)

No. No one else is Invictus, or part of any covenant now. That... privlidge is Mr. Archers.


----------



## Graf (Dec 11, 2007)

OnlytheStrong said:
			
		

> The only problem I have is that you did tell us one thing, then allow another.



I could see why that would be a source of frustration.
I hope you can also appreciate that I discouraged it mostly because it's a power thing. If half the group does it then basically it starts a bit of an arms race.
(not really of course, but in roleplaying games can be competitive)

It also, is a bit weird if everyone is ambidextrous with lots of dots in fighting styles AND has an edictic memory AND striking looks etc etc etc. (which is what tends to happen when you give people merits in a competitive setting, rare merits that are availible only at character generation are point magnets).
With 7 merits people have to chose one or two traits like that to define their character but their really forced to work on developing a personality.

For example: Right now one of Beth's interesting traits is that she has an edictic memory. it costs a lot to buy and it's a way that she's different and unusual. With 17 points (assuming everyone feels like they need to blow all their humanity playing "keep up with the joneses") there's a good chance that someone with an intellectual background will want to take the same merit.
Effectively the player is penalized for not playing someone with a psychotic disposition. Since my goal is to run a game where people struggle with not becoming evil monsters (instead of start out that way) I think it's a perverse incentive.

I'm not trying to stop debate, per se. 
I just want to talk about it a week or two once Festy's prelude is wrapped up. If, at the begining of the game, you feel like you want your character to be in the same position as Festy's we'll work it out.

I prefer to show and not tell (somewhat, though I think dicussion and direct opinion sharing is valuable too) and also as I've said before:. Characters aren't finalized until the preludes are over and the game is ready to begin.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 11, 2007)

That works for me, though I might change some of my merits around after Cole’s prelude is concluded. 

-Blood


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## WarShrike (Dec 11, 2007)

It's fine. I wasn't making a statement. Like i said, i don't have the books. I was just checking Festy's character to see if anything still needed doing and ran across his "1 xp unspent" statement.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 11, 2007)

It was meant to tie in with his background, and reflect a loss of mortal morality which was carried over into his vampiric state prior to concerns of humanity. I have no qualms however restoring his humanity score and undoing the changes tied to the exchange.

It was my intention for him to actually buy the humanity points back at a later time (to trade out humanity then buy it back actually ends up costing more). Theoretically, he would gradually try to improve himself upon realizing he's losing touch with mortals, just as something to use for a hook for future character development.


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## WarShrike (Dec 11, 2007)

As i said, it's fine. Just don't let Biggs catch you playing with your food. Becomming a vamp hasn't dulled his desire to wipe out the entire species one bit. It just made him more efficient.


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## Graf (Dec 12, 2007)

War, you're on deck.
I'd appreciate it if you could just run with some of the stuff (who's your source, the "target" not being a vampire, etc).

You've got any sort of gear that Biggs would reasonably have at that time (probably swords and maybe a cheap pistol).


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## Graf (Dec 12, 2007)

This was in a conversation with someone, since it's generally applicable I thought I'd share.


			
				Graf said:
			
		

> I do feel a bit bad about not doing preludes for everyone. But I just don't think it's feasible (for me) to try to run 7 different plots at once. I'll try to put work out something so that people who didn't get preludes get something else later (solo adventures?) to make up for it.
> I can't promise anything of course but...


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## Jemal (Dec 13, 2007)

Well, I must admit I'm a bit confused.. I thought we were making the characters as human, but going through the other sheets, I noticed they have disciplines..  

So, My character's almost done minus the Discipline's thing, should I just add them in or what's going on?  (feel like I must've missed an important post somewhere..)


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 13, 2007)

When I wrote in my Disciplines it was basically so I didn't have to do it when I was embraced. Graf said that Nos would fit fine for my character, so I wrote down the disciplines a Nosferatu would have. I image you could write down your disciplines and it won't be anything major. Just saves you from doing it in the very near future.


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## industrygothica (Dec 13, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Well, I must admit I'm a bit confused.. I thought we were making the characters as human, but going through the other sheets, I noticed they have disciplines..
> 
> So, My character's almost done minus the Discipline's thing, should I just add them in or what's going on?  (feel like I must've missed an important post somewhere..)





You didn't miss anything, we just had a secret meeting to which you weren't invited.  You should wait and see what else we have planned for you. 


-IG


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## Graf (Dec 13, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Well, I must admit I'm a bit confused.. I thought we were making the characters as human, but going through the other sheets, I noticed they have disciplines..
> 
> So, My character's almost done minus the Discipline's thing, should I just add them in or what's going on?  (feel like I must've missed an important post somewhere..)




Hm. I'm not sure if I properly addressed or explained it.

The one sentence takeaway is that: people will eventually be vampires. They'll get to pick their clan and they'll get to spend their discipline points. 

Leaving aside the fact that the preludes aren't actually occurring contemporaneously the group is about half mortal (Biggs, Beth) and half vampire (Cole, Archer). However only Cole actually knows any disciplines (since Archer was embraced less than 48 hours ago).

I'm happy to know what disciplines people plan on taking because it does have some repercussions. But don't feel like you absolutely need to make them up right now. You can pick them later.


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## Graf (Dec 13, 2007)

The original request was that people make mortals because I wanted to see
Biggs the vampire hunter, or Beth the troubled teen not Biggs the Gangrel or Beth the Mehket. 

Some characters, including yours probably won't appear onscreen as a mortal so you can just pick disciplines and be done with it.

I'm feeling a bit unfair about some people starting playing and some people not starting. I'm considering doing a bit of a rolling start. On Night 1 all the players are going to be at the same location. But nothing says (and, in fact, it's almost physically impossible) for everyone to arrive at the same time.

It occurs to me that people without preludes could probably actually just start playing and we'll have people "arrive" as they finish their preludes.
This would be Diego, Ash, Beth and <Jemal's character>.

Thoughts? 
(It would probably be more roleplaying than anything else).


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## Graf (Dec 14, 2007)

So the fight isn't really going how I expected. Some stuff, like Biggs fighting style with two weapons (or even using the Wakazashi), I just didn't worry about because I expected it to be a touch more lopsided.
[edit=the second dot of the two weapon fighting style looks like it would actually have made a pretty big difference. At least in so far as it would push WJ's attack pool down to 1 die. I beg forgiveness for some reason I thought there was only one dot in there but didn't really look it up.]

Not to worry though no-one (at least no PC) is going to die. It would be really dumb if someone died before the game began.


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## Graf (Dec 14, 2007)

I realize I've been emoting on behalf of PCs a bit. I assure you that I'm aware of it and it won't be a regular thing. My justification, such as it is, is that both Beth and Archer are in rather mentally altered states.

Showing Biggs appearance from Beth's standpoint seemed more narratively interesting to me. And it's a prelude. And I didn't really want to cut away from the action too much.

If you think anything is out of character we can just edit it.


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## WarShrike (Dec 14, 2007)

Not to worry, it's a learning experience, ans as you said, no one dies during the preludes. Those are some nasty dice WJ is rolling. I'm curious to see if Biggs can make a comeback, without divine intervention.


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## WarShrike (Dec 14, 2007)

I managed to get a hold of the new World of Darkness, and am going through it. Once the preludes are done, i will change out Fast Reflexes for Weaponry Dodge. It's alot better than i'd first thought.

***EDIT: Also, i'm curious. If at some point, i purchase specialties in Weaponry, (like Specialty: Swords), will those added dice go into weaponry dodge if im wielding swords?***


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## Ashburn (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi, I've been checking this thread out for a couple days now... hope I'm not missing anything. Understood that Ash'd not be taking part in Preludes. So... I'm here, I'm here.


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## Graf (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks for checking in Ash. As I said a few posts up I'd be happy to *start the game early* for people who don't have preludes.
In fact I'm starting to think it's a better and better idea. As people's preludes finish they'll enter the "main" thread.

From my standpoint Beth is virtually done and Biggs is over halfway there (though this fight has proven unpredictable).

I'd say Cole is maybe 40%, and Archer is 30%.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 14, 2007)

Two things.

First, how are these three Specialties? Persuasion (Negotiating); Streetwise (Black Market); Firearms (Dead Aim) 

And second, can I change around some of my charaters merits? I figure since the points are being banked for now that they are still subjected to being moved/changed around. No? 


-Blood


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## Graf (Dec 14, 2007)

*PCs, NPCs, Blood Bonds, and OOC/IC knowledge*

Now that Archer's blood bound I thought I'd start to bring something up. (This is obviously all my opinion I accept there are alternative possibilities. I'm bringing up for information and to discuss.) 

Now, I encourage people to create as much stuff as they can for their characters before the game starts. Festy's done a lot of that and, in addition to being one of the reasons why his prelude is a bit longer, it's given me a lot to work with, allowed him to introduce stuff into the game and given me information about what kind of game he wants to play.

At the same time when stuff comes into the game I feel a bit of an obligation to take a hard look at it. 

Ex: Celeste, Archer's sire, is not only Invictus, but a harpy. In the City, which doesn't have alot of people wandering around with formal titles, and where covenant membership isn't a default, and given her background (unsavory profession) and youth (less than a hundred years old) that suggests to me that she's very very focused on her status.
Her status in the city, her status in the covenant.

Just embracing without permission is forbidden, but for someone who's worked so hard to become so powerful the possibility of having it all wiped out in one fell swoop has to be fairly scary.

******************************
The other thing I want to point out is that this is a game about newly embraced vampires finding there way. You don't know much, if anything, that's in the books.

Your sires, the people around you, aren't necessarily going to say, "OK, you have one of five splats to choose from, three give you special diciplines, two give you discounts on certain merits". They're going to say "welcome to the Invictus, drink up".
And then you're blood bound.

I'm sure there are a range of possible options, and I'm sure that some of the books offer up cities where newly embraced vampires are given all the info and a choice to do whatever they want.
I don't really think that makes sense. 

I want to people to play a game they enjoy, and to ultimately be able to make choices that they want to make. But I also think those choices only become meaningful after the character has had to work a bit for things.

Don't know if that really makes sense. Please come back to me with thoughts/comments/opinions/etc.


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## Graf (Dec 14, 2007)

Blood,

As mentioned in previous posts characters aren't finalized until the prelude is over and the game begins. Provided the changes make sense (and don't contradict stuff that's already happened in the prelude) you're free to swap around until the game begins.

It's very tricky to make characters in a vacuum, I wouldn't really stress too much about your merits until you've finished your prelude (I can't honestly think of any that would have a big effect it anyway).


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## Graf (Dec 14, 2007)

Blood, 

Dead Aim means? Normal Firearms specialities are like, pistol. I'm not very keen on a speciality that's broad. If you want it to be a generally applicable ability buy another dot. Is it only supposed to apply if your using the Aim action?

For example: Festy's character Archer has a Firearm specialty called "short range". That seems extremely broad to me and also meaningless. (People are good at shooting at things that are closer to them it's a function of the human eyeball and physics).
[But if it's only within 5 feet, then that could be interesting to me. It depends on the details of what you want.]

Take a look at my post about Biggs' Firearms speciality for an idea about what I'll look at when considering whether a specialty is appropriate).

Honestly I'll be much more lenient if a specialty adds to the story, or is quirky or interesting (again see Biggs' Academics (Horror Films) speciality).

Since you can basically make up anything look at the specialities as a way to personalize your character.

For example: LB's Persuasion Speciality is "button-holeing". If he's one-on-one with someone and he can physically put his hands on you he gets a plus one bonus. Does the +1 really matter? No. (he averages 14 dice anyway) 
But it reminds me about the sort of person he is. Nobody but LB has that speciality. (And it's fairly limited, it doesn't help in formal settings, or with anybody who's out of reach or if there's more than one person).

Just stuff to think about.


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## WarShrike (Dec 14, 2007)

[SBLOCK=Graf]void[/SBLOCK]


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## Graf (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks for the quick responces. Invisible castle is down but once it comes up we'll be ready to roll (may be morning for me though, going to fade out soon. sorry)


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## industrygothica (Dec 14, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> Thanks for the quick responces. Invisible castle is down but once it comes up we'll be ready to roll (may be morning for me though, going to fade out soon. sorry)




Hadn't even noticed your location until now. That explains all the late night posting.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 14, 2007)

I figured that since he is/was a weapons smuggler by trade then he would have a better idea than most on they work/operate. Plus being in his profession one has to be able to use one. I wanted a specialty that would affect all types of weapons. Dead Aim, to me, would apply to only when he has taken his time to aim at something. It was either that or something to the lines of Quick Draw. One would have to quick on the draw if caught in hostile negotiations. 

-Blood


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## Graf (Dec 15, 2007)

Somethings wrong with IC. Gonna have to come up with another solution.



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I figured that since he is/was a weapons smuggler by trade then he would have a better idea than most on they work/operate.



Most in this sentence means?
Most normal people? Yes. Most normal people don't have dots in Firearms. You're better that most because you have a skill.

The arguement that "I sell guns, so I'm better with them than some other undefined group of people" doesn't make much sense to me.

You're better with something if you
1. Use it a lot 2. Practice with it a lot.

Selling something professionally suggests that you probably have basic facility with it, but I don't see why this would require you to have some sort of mastery. Are used car salesmen awesome drivers? Not necessarily.
(You could write up a character and give him five dots in drive and say that he's a driving freak and he works at a car dealership and every chance he gets he jumps into one of their cars and tools around. But it's not like arms dealer = awesome with guns).



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Plus being in his profession one has to be able to use one.



Again, reflected by possession of the skill dots. It's not like not having a speciality means you can't use it.



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I wanted a specialty that would affect all types of weapons



Again this is directly opposite to the point of specialities.
The point isn't for you to try to get something that affects "as many situations as possible".

Being broadly and vaguely good at something doesn't give your character an interesting facet.



			
				Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Dead Aim, to me, would apply to only when he has taken his time to aim at something. It was either that or something to the lines of Quick Draw. One would have to quick on the draw if caught in hostile negotiations.



I'll look at the books again and see if it seems feasible, but "when I take the time to properly aim at something I'm more likely to hit it" doesn't sound like a speciality. Everyone is better when they take the time to aim (that's why there's an aiming rule).

Improving your quick draw is a merit. I'd assume improving your aiming would also be a merit.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 15, 2007)

Point taken.

How about then Investigation (fraud and counterfeiting)? Something that would give him an edge for verifying the quality of goods. Making sure he is getting what he asked for and not getting swindled/cheated. Or does it need to be more specific?


-Blood


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## Graf (Dec 15, 2007)

Brilliant! 
Since it's fairly obscure you'll get  a 2 dice bonus if it comes up. Investigation seems like a reasonable skill to apply it to.


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## Graf (Dec 15, 2007)

Santa came early this year and gave me an iPod touch. Sorry if posting slows a bit.
(Honesty is the best policy, right?)


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## Jemal (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm sooo sorry I've been taking forever, guys.  Our connection REALLY sucks out here, I keep getting DC'd and taking several minutes to load the site.

Anyways, I'm gonna post my char. without the Disciplines (B/c frankly I only have the base NWoD book with me, no vampire, so don't even know which discipline to choose until I get back into town for xmas in a week).


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## Ashburn (Dec 16, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> Santa came early this year and gave me an iPod touch. Sorry if posting slows a bit.
> (Honesty is the best policy, right?)




Woooooo ^^"v
I just got a iPod Nano myself~ ^^"


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## Graf (Dec 16, 2007)

Ok. The next three posts are blocked out. But I have family coming in today.  Not sure whether I will be able to get the time to come through today 
Safest to just check back in 24.


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## Graf (Dec 17, 2007)

OK. I've changed my mind about something.

As I said in the previous post I've got a lot of the preludes blocked out. And i'd been thinking that I'd just rush through them and we'd be done and the game started.

But that's not fun for anyone, and it's odes produce anything interesting (see the most recent Archer post). So now I'm thinking that
1. Run the preludes properly. Short posts by me, more interaction (this is happening better with Cole and Biggs right now --I'm gonna cut down on the long one way conversations i'd been throwing at Festy.
2. We're going to have a *hard start for the main game Next Wednesday December the 26th* (I think that starting around christmas just isn't going to work which is why it's not in a week).

If the preludes don't make it by then then those characters will just arrive later.

Sound good? comments? thoughts?


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 17, 2007)

Works for me. 
Though I am at a loss as to what kind of response is expected from Cole. 
I made some presumations about people, was corrected, do you require a re-post or something?


-Blood


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## WarShrike (Dec 17, 2007)

Works for me. I've also been fiddling around with IC today, got a few rolls done on [VtR]Biggs, and just to note, in the description, it's specified "just trying it out, doesn't count gamewise".


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## WarShrike (Dec 17, 2007)

So, how does attacking with 2 weapons work?


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## Jemal (Dec 17, 2007)

well, here's the mechanics.. how's it look?

[sblock=James]
Virtue: Patience
Vice: Greed

Attributes:
Int ***
Wits ***
Resolve **

Strength **
Dexterity ***
Stamina **

Presence **
Manipulation **
Composure **

Skills:

Academics **
Computers **
Investigate **
Occult (Vampires) ****
Politics *

Brawl **
Drive *
Survival *

Persuassion (Seduction) ***
Socialize **
Streetwise (Rumours) **

Merits:
Strong Back *
Resources ***
Status **
X? *

Size: 5
Defense: 3
Initiative: +5
Speed: 10

Health: *******
Willpower ****

Humanity: 7
[/sblock]


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## industrygothica (Dec 18, 2007)

From email; 11:46 pm (GMT-6)...



			
				Graf said:
			
		

> Mass emailing everyone in vampire whose address i have.
> 
> Some family stuff has pulled of completely off the 'net.
> Can't see enworld at all.
> ...


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## Graf (Dec 19, 2007)

back, actually a bit sleep deprived. I'll hit the questions here first and then go over the prelude thread.

[edit= and thanks ig for posting that!]



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> So, how does attacking with 2 weapons work?



 I've been assuming that when you pull out your wakizashi you're doing the ** power. The * power hasn't come up yet (though in certain situations it could be very powerful I think).

Since a Katana is basically a two handed weapon (and the wakizashi isn't normally used to fight unless the Katana is lost somehow) I honestly haven't been able to imagine fighting handed with both of them. 
I've just kinda assumed Biggs developed his own fighting style.


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## Graf (Dec 19, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Works for me.
> Though I am at a loss as to what kind of response is expected from Cole.
> I made some presumations about people, was corrected, do you require a re-post or something?
> 
> ...



 Nope!

No corrections necessary.

You're response was already excellent in that you talked about the sort of things Cole wants to do.


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## Graf (Dec 19, 2007)

Jemal,

Looks fine. Will email you on something.

[edit=Your resources *** is "free" when the game begins, because you can't use it.
Or do you want to bank those points?
And get it "free" after the game advances to a certain point?
(banking is fine, and stress free, but you're out those merit points initially)]


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## Graf (Dec 19, 2007)

Coles and Biggs last posts were malformed (Cole's minorly, Biggs' severely).
They should be fixed now. Admittedly my "writing" (or whatever you call it) borders on the incomprehensible.

Just let me know if something is unreadable and I'll clear it up.


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## Jemal (Dec 19, 2007)

I made a few changes to my character to reflect his growing & Changing bio.
[sblock=New Updated Char Sheet]
Name: James Cale
Virtue: Patience
Vice: Greed

Attributes:
Int ***
Wits **
Resolve ***

Strength **
Dexterity **
Stamina **

Presence **
Manipulation ***
Composure **

Skills:

Academics *** (Law)
Computers *
Investigate **
Occult  **** (Vampires)
Politics *

Brawl **
Drive *
Stealth *

Persuassion ***
Socialize **
Streetwise ** (Rumours) 

Merits:
Resources ???
Status ** (Criminals)

Size: 5
Defense: 2
Initiative: +4
Speed: 9

Health: *******
Willpower *****

Humanity: 6-7
[/sblock]

I've been writing the biography on paper over the last few days, with my inability to get consistant net access, and I'm going to try to transcribe it now.
Hopefully, it'll help explain my character.

[sblock=Character biography]
WARNING: kinda dark.
My name is James Cale.
There's nothing special about how I was born or raised.  I went to school like any other kid, grew up in a normal house with normal parents, didn't even loose my virginity till my graduation.  But hell, what a grad... and it was worth the wait, SHE was worth the wait.

Gorgeous, Beautiful, Sexy, Smart, Funny.  -PERFECT- and all mine.

By my second year of law school, we were living together.  We married a month after I finished (Princeton for anyone who gives a damn).  I was hired straight ouf of college by a most prestigious firm, and immediately started my climb to the top.  For two years, I was the rising star, making connectiosn, making money, even ended up making a "little me" with the love of my life.
    She was 8 months pregnant when she was taken from me.  I knew, the instant I saw the house; cops, ambulance, everybody standing there... Some looked bored, others sickened.  I had to fight my way through to see the body (God, I still can't think of that.. butchered, brutalized, mutilated corpse as the woman I'd once loved.)

I spent he next year buried in work, 20 hours a day, I cut myself off from old friends, family, and made new contacts.  Ones who would help me find him, in exchange for certain favours which I happened to be in a position to grant.

My work never slipped, yet my employers became concerned with my new obsession.  Hmmf, screw them and their job, it didn't matter any more.  I'd found him.
The bastard thought I was his lawyer when I first approached him about being the prime suspect in the case, so I used it to my advantage.  I wrung every bit of info I could out of him, and what I learned sent me into a terrifying new world...

VAMPIRES.
WEREWOLVES.
And all those other Hollywood Blockbusters and things that go bump in the night.  He was a 'ghoul', sent to leave a message.  I still haven't found out what the exact meaning of it is, or why his 'master' hated me so much, but in the long years since, I've found out a lot of OTHER things.

My first step was in finding her.. Or maybe she found me.  For a decade, we were together, my vampiress and me, closer even than I'd been with my wife.  And yet, it wasn't love that brought us together, but something else.  A shared desire for power and knowledge which we both - somehow - knew could be gained by working together.  
(I still search for the vampire who ended my life and started me on the path I now follow, but I no longer know exactly what I'll do if.. when... I find him.  )

I've waited so long for my lady to bestow the gift(curse?) upon me, but it'll be worth the wait.

Power, Riches, Information, Beauty, Revenge.  -PERFECT- and all mine.
And this time, it'll be forever.
[/sblock]

[sblock= Questiosn for Graf]
Two questions I forgot to email you:
1 - Why will he have no resources at start?  Is it simply because you find it unbalancing, so I should delete it, or is there an actual reason?  What's the difference between free and banking?  Both mean I get it later, but one means I loose the merit points? huh?
2 - I was kinda hoping this vampire chick could play a fairly large role in my characters development (As she allready has, but continuing into him being a fellow vampiree)... Would taking points in Mentor or Allies be able to show that?  If so, how many would you like me to allocate?
[/sblock]


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## WarShrike (Dec 19, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> Since a Katana is basically a two handed weapon (and the wakizashi isn't normally used to fight unless the Katana is lost somehow) I honestly haven't been able to imagine fighting handed with both of them.
> I've just kinda assumed Biggs developed his own fighting style.




My bad. In other games i play, including D&D, Katanas are 1 handed, so i really inteded to fight with 2 weapons. So instead of bending the rules for me, i'll just switch to 2 Longswords once preludes are done. Longsword: Damage 3L, Size 2L, Durability 3, Cost **.

***EDIT: Are you sure Katanas are 2 handed? The Katana and Longsword have the same damage, size, and strength requirements. The Longsword is listed as a 1-hander, while nothing is said of the Katana. Also, the bigger swords (Greatsword, Zweihander) and polearms that are definately 2-handers are useable 1 handed if the character's strength is at least +1 over the base requirements (this from the Armory book).***

***EDIT #2: Also looked through the Armory book again and all the 2 handed weapons have a sort of cross at the end of their name, marking them as 2-handers. The Katana doesn't have one.***


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## Graf (Dec 20, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> ***EDIT: Are you sure Katanas are 2 handed? The Katana and Longsword have the same damage, size, and strength requirements. The Longsword is listed as a 1-hander, while nothing is said of the Katana. Also, the bigger swords (Greatsword, Zweihander) and polearms that are definately 2-handers are useable 1 handed if the character's strength is at least +1 over the base requirements (this from the Armory book).***



Sorry, I need to be more clear when I post.

What I meant was that "in all the japanese samurai movies I've watched people fight with one hand".
[_The style is similar to the sport Kendo, where you hold the sword with two hands and the lower fingers on the bottom hand are most essential. Supposidly anyway. That's where the whole Yakuza-finger-chopping thing comes from. It's not really (or not just) a painful way to humiliate someone. The more you've messed up (and the more joints you've lost) the easier prey you become if they have to kill you later._]

The katana and wakazashi were social signifiers in the country that invented them (Japan). They weren't part of a two handed fighting style.[_The swords have different functions really, the longer Katana was wielded, usually two handed for actual fighting, the wakizashi was a secondary weapon and also used for certain kinds of ritual activities, committing suicide being the most famous.
Mostly though the second sword was a sign that you were a member of nobility. Nobles wanted armed servants, so having one sword couldn't be a sign of nobility. IIRC non-nobles weren't allowed to wear a second sword; I think the penalty for impersonating a noble during the "closed country period" was death._]

So all I meant was that, since my own experiences with Katana/Wakizashi (experience here being stuff I learned in Japan, not actual skill/experience of course) meant that I wasn't really able to visualize how a two weapon fighting style with those two blades works, and so my descriptions may have been a bit vague.
[I -did- try to use it in terms of descriptions in the fight with Blackcoat though.]

At your next dot (***) you'll actually have some more real combat options.
The first two dots of TWF in WoD are defensive. The next two are offensive (but losing defense is a big deal in my mind so it's not a "straight bonus").

-Personally- I could easily see someone getting dots *** and **** just with a Katana or any other agile combat weapon. I suppose they stuck it in TWF because they couldn't think of something else?
Dunno.


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## industrygothica (Dec 20, 2007)

So, out of curiosity (and a good bit of boredom), I suppose I'll find out what happened to Beth at the start of the game - how she was changed, where she ran off to, etc.?


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

industrygothica said:
			
		

> So, out of curiosity (and a good bit of boredom), I suppose I'll find out what happened to Beth at the start of the game - how she was changed, where she ran off to, etc.?



This is a very fair question.

The answer is that "Beth doesn't know". The first "arc" will include attempts by some characters to find out the "whys". 

My first post indicated that there was an investigative component to the game and that's it.

You won't start off completely blind, of course.
I'll try to post Beth's starter post to give an idea about how it's going to being and we can talk about whether people feel like it's "enough" to have fun roleplaying.


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Two questions I forgot to email you:
> 1 - Why will he have no resources at start?  Is it simply because you find it unbalancing, so I should delete it, or is there an actual reason?  What's the difference between free and banking?  Both mean I get it later, but one means I loose the merit points? huh?



[_Edit:See lower down on the thread_]



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> 2 - I was kinda hoping this vampire chick could play a fairly large role in my characters development (As she allready has, but continuing into him being a fellow vampiree)... Would taking points in Mentor or Allies be able to show that?  If so, how many would you like me to allocate?
> [/sblock]



Will come back to you. Soonish.


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

War,

You said you'd been playing around with Biggs a bit. Do you like Invisible Castle? I use it because I'm used to it.

I edited fixed my post above to get it right (sorry for the spastic posting recently. my excuse is that I have a newborn around now and I'm running on a lot less sleep that usual. I'll get more focused I think once things even out)

The bottom line is that you're free to use the Katana/Wakizashi combo. *I was just making an offhand comment* that you'd probably developed/adapted your own fighting style instead of using one that was traditionally associated with Kendo style. Wasn't meant to be critical of our your choices which are fine/good/groovy/work well in the game/etc.
(I do appreciate you giving it thought though, and I'm sorry I wasn't in a position to react more quickly to your comments).


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

*Le Holidays*

I am aware that it's approaching christmas/holiday time.

For some people this means no free time and lots of stress.
For some people this means lots of free time and little stress.

Hopefully everyone will have a good holiday. While I'll continue to try to push forward and I do anticipate continuing with semi-regular posting and getting the game going on the due date. *Don't feel like there is any sort of 24 hour requirement.*

Family time is the most important time. Live it up. Post if it works for you.
We'll be here when you get back (or you want a bit of an escape).


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

*The final word (I hope) on why certain merits are banked/free*

So as I've said before certain merits are banked/free.
(I'll find the list but it's stuff like Mentor/Resources/etc).

The reason why is basically this

*0. You won't have access to them at the start of the game*
1. I've never run a game before online.
2. Vampire has some unusual elements.

In online games i've played time is weird. Sometimes people post for weeks and fill up pages of threads with one conversation while nothing is happening. Since vampire has a social element this is a distinct possibility.
I'm not sure how long the start of the game will last. 

It's possible people will hate that situation and we'll just blow through it. It's possible, with six PCs a bunch of NPCs and lots of questions (in and out of character) that it could take a while.
The decisions of the group, in the aggregate, will have an impact on how this affects things. So someone else's valid character decision* could wind up having and adverse impact on you're ability to use something you bought "fair and square".
*=I.e. a good, interesting in character choice

I don't want to have a situation where someone has lots of useful merits and someone else has no merits at all. I don't want to have a situation where someone's choices are effectively blocking you from enjoying the game.

Having said that, if you just want social merits, you want them soon and you want to spend xp trying to buy more social merits (or whatever) and * you're willing to be "meritless" (or "partially mertiless") for the start of the game * I don't want to deny people that choice.
The whole banking/free thing is just a way to let people choose and have a simple way for me to keep track of what's going on.

This may, btw, be *the stupidest thing ever* it's possible that we won't even be off the first page and a week of game time has passed and everyone's got most or all of their merits available to them.
I dunno.

[sblock=metadiscussion]
So at this point people may be asking "so what's with the start of the game" crap? I wanna play vampire, not DnD and I want to engage in social warfare, etc etc.

My answer basically is that with new players and a relatively inexperienced DM (that's me) I want to ease into things a bit. It's perfectly valid for a player character to have Allies (***** = My old biker gang). Then hypothetical biker mouths off to Biggs, Biggs kicks hypothetical bikers ass, hypothetical biker calls his buddies, they try to kill Biggs.

With an experienced crew I'd want to allow the first or second scene to be something like that. With newer players do I want my *first fight* to be a situation where *someone's merit is trying to kill someone else's character*?

Honestly?
No.
I don't want to deal with that initially.

I don't want people hiring bodyguards and going in hiding in some penthouse for the first character action.
I don't want someone saying "this city sucks" and hiring a private jet to leave. (And not just for the obvious reasons).

So that's the meta reason why.
I feel like giving people merits means "you can use them freely". We may debate about whether you can use resources *** to get a private jet, but saying "no you can't get to an ATM right now" is out-of-bounds.[/sblock]

Hope that makes things clearer.
If not let me know.


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

An addendum to the post above is that I want the game to unfold naturally.

So I don't want to feel like I need to "push the game forward" just to get everyone access to their powers (especially if it leads to some kind of choice for me like "let someone "kill" someone's merit or let a character die).

If people want to play for a few weeks in the initial situation then I want to allow that.


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## WarShrike (Dec 21, 2007)

I'm generally content about how you handled the fights, it's just that now and then, i'm gonna want to go all out attack and i wouldn't mind knowing how wielding 2 weapons works. Usually i will stick with the defensive wakizashi routine i think.

Like with Blackcoat. I knew there was no way i'd win, i just wanted to lose with style. I didn't call an all out attack because i figured the fight might last more than 1 turn and i'd need my defense.


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## WarShrike (Dec 21, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> War,
> 
> You said you'd been playing around with Biggs a bit. Do you like Invisible Castle? I use it because I'm used to it.




Yeah, i like it. It's the only online dice roller i've ever tried, and i think it works fine.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Dec 21, 2007)

I'll post a reply for Cole in a bit, came down with a nasty virus and I am still in a bit of recovery. 

-Blood


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> I'm generally content about how you handled the fights, it's just that now and then, i'm gonna want to go all out attack and i wouldn't mind knowing how wielding 2 weapons works. Usually i will stick with the defensive wakizashi routine i think.



Generally speaking it's very difficult (=impossible) to get multiple actions/attacks in a round. Having said that...

FS:TWF *** lets you attack _one_ person twice in a round. BUT you get no defense. And if you've -already- used your defense against an attack that round you CAN'T make two attacks.
(Period. So if someone attacks you and you've already used defense you can't use the double strike)
TWF **** lets you make two attacks against different opponents, with exactly the same restrictions as the *** ability.

In both cases the second attack is at -1 die.



			
				WarShrike said:
			
		

> Like with Blackcoat. I knew there was no way i'd win, i just wanted to lose with style.



I thought you did very well actually against her. At least for the first attack. 
The problem was really that she rolled well on her first response and that prevented you from taking your next action. FS:Box is surprisingly useful.


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## Graf (Dec 21, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I'll post a reply for Cole in a bit, came down with a nasty virus and I am still in a bit of recovery.
> 
> -Blood



 No problems. I hate being sick. Hope you're feeling better.

And I owe Archer and Jemal both responses right now anyway.
And Beth's sample preview.


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## WarShrike (Dec 22, 2007)

I enjoyed reading the NPCs conversation.


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## Graf (Dec 22, 2007)

WarShrike said:
			
		

> I enjoyed reading the NPCs conversation.



Then that's very cool. It popped into my head almost immediately after your first "want to play a vampire hunter". (sorta, I think it changed a bit but can't remember which parts)

This weekend is turning out to be basically impossible for me.
Will resume posting starting Monday sometime.

Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday weekend!


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## Graf (Dec 24, 2007)

OK. Another mini-crisis in RL came up.

Pushing back the "hard" (semi-solid?) start date to Friday.


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## industrygothica (Dec 24, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> OK. Another mini-crisis in RL came up.
> 
> Pushing back the "hard" (semi-solid?) start date to Friday.





Why is it that life always gets in the way of the important stuff?

Merry Christmas to everyone.


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## Jemal (Dec 25, 2007)

Hey all, been busy with the holidays, but I've finally gotten my Vampire book (yay), and am reading through it.  
Not meaning to rush you, Graf (Specially since I understand how hectic life can be, and with the holdidays, etc), but I was wondering if you've got any info/answers for me RE: my char?

(BTW, I've decided to just bank his resource merit points since you don't want them at the start.  I'd planned on him still having access to his past resources/etc b/c he's been planning this for over a decade, so it makes sense to keep them until you're ready for them to be available, I guess.


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## Graf (Dec 26, 2007)

I want to get one more post out on Archer's thread. Then I'll sit down with it.

My hunch is that you've deviated a bit from our original discussion. I'll probably need to have a good think to see what is going to fit in where.
Looks good. You're basically set up.

gain though I haven't read it yet.

Sorry. For some reason I thought it was longer. Will email you. Things look generally fine.


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## Graf (Dec 26, 2007)

*Humanity for XP*

OK. Now we can start to talk about the humanity -> xp swap.
I have a post but I think I should hold off to give people maximum chance to speak.

I would still like to get the game going by Friday. Now that Archer's prelude is probably around 80ish% done the next "big thing" is Beths pre-post.

(And Cole's prelude is still running, I'd say we're past the mid-point).


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 26, 2007)

Here's an email I've received from Graf that should be very relevant.



			
				email from Graf said:
			
		

> OK. Now that I've gotten most of Archer's prelude up we're in a position to talk more about humanity and xp.
> 
> Here's really how I see it, the Vampire book requires "heinous acts" to have been committed in order to swap out humanity for xp. This is an optional rule (again per the vampire book).
> 
> ...




Really, I don't mind the troubles my character has been through. He's ended up more or less exactly as I wanted him to be at game start, if not better due to the embitterment and contempt of things brought on by the treatment he received from his sire. I'll obviously need to revise the background I have posted for the character to include this but that's no biggie.

On the subject of humanity loss, I completely approve of what was done to him. You could say it helps build character  . On my part, within what I wrote for the character I had alluded to him doing some pretty awful things while he was mortal, but wasn't specific about anything, just giving a general description of what he used to do for a living and leaving it to the reader's imagination as to what kind of nastiness gets performed in the less reputable areas of that line of work. 

To provide a graphic example, one hypothetical job could be a client calling upon Archer's company to influence an election in some out-of-the-way country by any means necessary, preferring specified methods for personal reasons. A task force is assembled to fulfill the contract and Archer helps orchestrate the kidnap of children A, B, & C, in order to force the hand of politican A who is childrens' parent or close relative. Innocent blood is spilled, etc, etc. He isn't the guy whose job it is to pull the trigger on these jobs (as previously mentioned he's not a fighter), but he was helping to plan, perform and cover them up. He was essentially telling the guy responsible when to pull the trigger.


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## Jemal (Dec 26, 2007)

I actually hadn't read about the humanity-xp swap until just now, but I'd been planning on asking if my humanity could start 1 lower (6).  There's no single specific thing that he's done to deserve it, but a decade and a half of hell, turning your back on everyone, and seeking out the darkness wears at one's soul/heart, I think.


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## Graf (Dec 26, 2007)

Festy's post btw, is exactly the post I was preparing to send.

I've decided that when I'm bringing up something about peoples character's I'll try to give them a heads up first.



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> I actually hadn't read about the humanity-xp swap until just now, but I'd been planning on asking if my humanity could start 1 lower (6).  There's no single specific thing that he's done to deserve it, but a decade and a half of hell, turning your back on everyone, and seeking out the darkness wears at one's soul/heart, I think.



urg.

Here's my basic opinion. "Vaguely defined badness" does not equal "heinous acts". In fact I think it's the antithesis of the effect. Is there story value in the things that happened to Archer? I think so. When he smells gasoline, when he meets Celeste and/or Frank again, maybe even when he sees a pitcher of milk put out for the cat then his character will be affected (not hugely of course, but there's story stuff there).
Also, Archer's humanity loss is going to have repercussions for him, some obvious, some not. He acts as a good parable for other characters. For example: having social die pool maximums of 5 with humans is something that is going to affect Archer. People he knew before he interacts with now are going to think there's something wrong with him, he's less likable than he used to be, etc. etc.
For other characters that's not really much of a penalty.

Either way "My character was a bad person, I get more xp" doesn't really work for me. I know Festy suggested that initially at the top of the thread, and I can appreciate that the book seems to offer that up as a possibility, but I feel like some sort of strict interpretation is necessary.
[To put it another way I think that most people in the real world, however flawed they are are still "human" and have a reasonable humanity score (read: 7). I don't think that "being a dick" or "turning your back on people you know" is worthy of humanity loss.] 

*Festy has also offered to "roll back" his character. 
I feel like I need to reserve that as an option instead of winding up in a game where everyone has humanity 5 and has shot their mom to get some extra dots of merits.*


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## Graf (Dec 27, 2007)

Jemal,

You have "unspent" points from "banked" resources/etc. Why not use those if there is something else you want to buy?

Specifically, regarding your character. Obviously I think that the event in your life was extremely traumactic.  The general rule is that *your own actions* cause humanity loss.

OK. I didn't apply that rule to Festy, honestly at the time I wasn't as familiar with the rules as I am now and I thought/remembered that it was just "heinous stuff".

At the same time I am loath to make that a general rule. Sitting around and categorizing trauma, debating whose character is most tortured and how many experience points they get wouldn't be particularly fun for me.
(is someone's horrible home life work 5xp? Is it worth 10? No? what if I toss in sexual abuse? Can I get 10 then? Ok, what about physical and sexual abuse? Is it 10 yet?)

Honestly, I like where the characters are placed now. I like that people had to make some tough choices and focus on their characters are good at. And that even in those areas they aren't "perfect".
Biggs isn't a modern Miyamoto Musashi yet. He's good, but he's not at that level yet. with 5 xp he'd be close (weaponry 5 (Katana), TWF 4) and he'd really have no way to improve once the game began.
I just think it's a less interesting starting point. On the other hand Biggs is a very focused character and it would make perfect sense for him to start off that way in terms of his internal narritive. (I mean, he's not going to put his points into playing Yatzee).
It's just not were I want the game to begin.


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## Jemal (Dec 27, 2007)

Sorry if this sounds a bit rude, but I think you play with too many rules-munchers, b/c you're seeing everything as people trying to weasel the most power possible out of their characters, and you're doing everything in your power to prevent people from twinking.  Which is fine, but I'd rather you not assume that all the decisions I'm making are for the power (If you'll look, I have a rather UN-optimized character).
Also, if you'll recall, I'd wanted to start with a humanity of 6 BEFORE I heard about the XP thing.

If you don't want me to start at humanity 6 that's fine, however with a character like this, I will end up there fairly shortly, the only difference is that I'll have a chance of going insane (sooner).

(As a side note, I'd like to point out that commiting 'petty theft/shoplifting' forces a roll to loose humanity when you're at 7.  "heinous" is proportional to the starting humanity.)

Just so the point's not lost : I don't give a flying Duck about the XP, the humanity 6 was a CHARACTER choice, not a twinking choice.


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## Graf (Dec 27, 2007)

Fair enough. I'd misunderstood you. I apologize if you felt that my comments were a besmerchment upon your character. They weren't meant to be. And they were general.

Bah. This is going exactly where I thought it would. I don't honestly have the headspace to sit down and think about how optimized/un-optimized/deserving/undeserving each individual character is.
*
It's my bad for originally allowing the character. I'll apologize to Festy personally and ask him to dump the xp and push his humanity back up to 7.*

*The optional rule is permanently disallowed.*

You are free to "give up" humanity if you want to. I think that the advantages of having a higher humanity far outweight the possibilities picking up derangements. But... whatever. Sure. Start off with humanity 6 or 5 or whatever if you like.



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> (As a side note, I'd like to point out that committing 'petty theft/shoplifting' forces a roll to loose humanity when you're at 7.  "heinous" is proportional to the starting humanity.)



Obviously a valid point.
The humanity system is sorta flawed*. But like alignment in DnD I don't think we're going to get a better system (I.e. I'm not gonna write a new one).

I do feel obliged to point out that I was speaking in terms of the "swap" mechanic, which does specifically mention "heinous acts". It's not like I was making it up. It's in the book. And I (at least) was talking about swapping.
I understand that it's hard to read through the thread but it represents my context for conversations. If you bring up dropping humanity and we've had a bunch of posts about it already then that's the context from which I speak (however fair or unfair you might see it).

* This is the biggest problem for Diego actually. *I'm inclined to give certain kinds of circumstantial bonuses on the check.* If you're naked and stealing clothing from the discount bin at a superstore it's different from snagging something from a mom 'n pop shop where you know the owners.
[edit= I guess that what I'm saying is that I'd consider there being some sort of "professional bonus" maybe? But I wouldn't want that for all the acts.
Whatever.
We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.]



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> you're doing everything in your power to prevent people from twinking.



For the record I see this as a fundamental, inescapable part of the job description.

As for the people I play with?
Lets just say that my group can't meet anymore, but I do feel there are fundamental differences between how a group that has only met and played online shakes out vs. a group that's met every other week for years.


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## Graf (Dec 27, 2007)

OK.

I've hit a bit of a break point. We've spent all day on this and though the issue is resolved, at least in my mind. I haven't made any progress on getting reading for game start tomorrow.

And I'm a bit tired.

So I'm pushing game start back to Monday. *It'll either start Monday or we won't play.* I'm not going to keep futzing around.

I do assert (I realize without much evidence to point to yet) that I think we have the makings of a good game. I'll be fun. Some interesting stuff should happen. After the game starts (and a bit of time has happened) people will get to play in a sandbox type vampire game where you can do the sorts of stuff Vampire allows.

To do my best to make that happen *I'm not going to look at this thread and not going to read any (game related) email for the next 48 hours*. All my output will either be in the Preludes thread or in an IC thread which should go up Monday sometime.

Hopefully that works for people.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 27, 2007)

Graf said:
			
		

> It's my bad for originally allowing the character. I'll apologize to Festy personally and ask him to dump the xp and push his humanity back up to 7.




Fixed.


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## Graf (Dec 31, 2007)

New threads all around

IC
OOC

My current focus right now is continuing to get everyone into play; I'll address other issues only when I have time.


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