# Heroes Season [Volume] 2 (#29)---10/29/07-'The Line'



## Truth Seeker (Oct 29, 2007)

*THE LINE*​


Writer:  *Tim Kring  * 

Star:  *Dana Davis (Monica Dawson),  Sendhil Ramamurthy (Mohinder Suresh),  Zachary Quinto (Sylar),  James Kyson Lee (Ando Masahashi),  Masi Oka (Hiro Nakamura),  Milo Ventimiglia (Peter Petrelli),  Adrian Pasdar (Nathan Petrelli),  Noah Gray-Cabey (Micah Sanders),  Ali Larter (Niki Sanders),  Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman),  Hayden Panettiere (Claire Bennet),  Jack Coleman (Mr. Bennet / HRG),  Dania Ramirez (Maya Herrera),  David Anders (Takezo Kensei),  Kristen Bell (Elle)  * 

Guest Star:  *Nicholas D'Agosto (West),  Stephen Tobolowsky (Bob),  Dianna Agron (Debbie),  Jimmy Jean-Louis (Mysterious Haitian),  Adair Tishler (Molly Walker)  * 

Peter goes on a search. West convinces Claire to stand up to someone. Hiro struggles with his feelings for Yaeko. Suresh has more problems with the Company. HRG tries to locate more of Isaac's paintings. Alejandro doesn't trust Sylar. ​


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## Cor Azer (Oct 29, 2007)

Off topic to the episode, but in the picture there, who's that in the middle doorway with HRG and Hiro?  It looks like the first season cast, and the only one I can't place is Tawny Cypress, but it doesn't really look like her to me.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 30, 2007)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> Off topic to the episode, but in the picture there, who's that in the middle doorway with HRG and Hiro?  It looks like the first season cast, and the only one I can't place is Tawny Cypress, but it doesn't really look like her to me.




If you squint it looks like her.  It's not the best portrayal though, and I'm not sure why she's at the door.  It's like they couldn't figure out where to put HRG, Hiro, and Simone.  Good picture though, what's it from TS?

So, we've moved on from Watchmen to The Stand?

Man, I hate West more and more with each passing episode.  I don't really care if Claire becomes a cheerleader again or not... it's just not interesting.

The Honduran Snooze Twins continue to live up to their name, despite Sylar's best intentions.

The rest of the episode was pretty good though.  I definitely think Suresh and Niki was set up on purpose, by HRG.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 30, 2007)

Didn't care for Claire/Flyboy, didn't like Sylar/Wonder Twins, Bennett's stuff was so-so, Peters was too short to judge. Hiro's stuff was okay, but it looks like he's locked into repetitiveness just like first season. (Looks like we might constantly see him breaking & fixing the Kensei timeline.)

I sort of think it's Mohinder & Jessica, but would prefer if it was Nikki, since I don't look forward to more repetition of the "Nikki finding strength" plotline. I was sort of hoping they'd hire Monica to be Mohinders partner.

Did Linderman not tell the Company about Micah perhaps? Or maybe they just don't care, like with Molly staying with Mohinder & Parkman.

The Catastrophe to thwart was a bit underwhelming for me, but we'll see how it plays out next week.


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## Alzrius (Oct 30, 2007)

It was pretty cool seeing HRG showing off his evil side again; it makes him a much more interesting character. He's the anti-hero of Heroes.

I was actually a bit surprised that not only did he find all the other paintings, but that Peter and Caitlyn got to Montreal so fast. Because of the Honduran twins are taking their time getting anywhere, I guess I was expecting the show to progress along at a similar frustratingly slow pace.

And Hiro, from now on RESPECT the space/time continuum!


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## Cor Azer (Oct 30, 2007)

So... when Kensai caught up with Hiro and the daughter... wow... that was pretty quick. They were all in the middle of the camp, and then Hiro teleported him and her out. It wasn't much longer before the kiss, yet Kensai got there in time to see.

Unless of course, Hiro's teleport also delayed their reappearance for a while.

Probably not a big deal, but it did catch my eye.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 30, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> (Looks like we might constantly see him breaking & fixing the Kensei timeline.)




I think that would be awesome - Hiro tried to change the timeline, and is forever condemned to having to fix it.  It's a very dark ending for Hiro, which contrasts nicely with his optimistic nature.  In fact, I'm all for that being how Hiro turns into Future Hiro, and not simply Ando's death.

My friend asked me why The Company didn't recruit Monica to be Mohinder's partner, considering her ability.  Vastly more useful than super strength, I think.

I was thinking about comments that were made last year, where the initial idea was to have a different group of heroes each year.  I'm beginning to think Claire was one of those people were weren't going to see again, given how banal and unmoving her storyline is.


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## Cor Azer (Oct 30, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> If you squint it looks like her.  It's not the best portrayal though, and I'm not sure why she's at the door.  It's like they couldn't figure out where to put HRG, Hiro, and Simone.  Good picture though, what's it from TS?




Fair 'nuff. I couldn't really get a good look at her.


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## Ed_Laprade (Oct 30, 2007)

I'm convinced that its Jessica, not Nikki, due entirely to Ali's acting. Agree with what has been said so far.

BUT... C'mon, Mr. Bennent tossing stuff around with his bare hands? Surely the company has his fingerprints, if no one else does. 

Gack! I almost liked Bob at the end there. And I *know* he can't be trusted!


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## Brown Jenkin (Oct 30, 2007)

Honduran Snooze Twins/Sylar: Thank you whoever coined the name. It would have been nice if the yahoos on the border had shot everyone in the car so we wouldn't have to deal with them anymore. But then Peter wouldn't have an epidemic future to teleport too.

Peter: I'm begnning to wonder if his girlfriend isn't a plant. I like amnesia Peter better than Emo Peter. Since he was on the Plaza with Parkman shouldn't he have mind reading as well.

Shuresh/Nikki/Jessica: Still around for his blood. Has morals but is really screwed and he knows it. Please take Molly and run. Plus why is Bob trusting Nikki/Jessica after she tried to kill him and break out.

Hiro: I love Hiro but I am getting anoyed that they are leaving him in the past. As much as I enjoy the stoyline it seems to have zero to due with the main plot. I am beginning to wonder if Hiro wasn't supposed to go with the cast change but then was too popular to get rid of so they wrote the trapped in the past stoyline to keep him out of the way.

Monica: She seems resolved. I am wondering where they are going with her.

Claire/Stalker Boy: I liked the trick but I would be willing to get rid of her to make the nightmare that is stalker boy go away.

HRG/Haitain: Fun in Russia. Good to know the Hatian can be more precice. As for HRG, way to go. Once more HRG shows just how ruthless he can be. I feel sorry for Matt and Suresh if he ever thinks that they betrayed him. Now if he can just find out about stalker boy and make him "dissapear".


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## Rystil Arden (Oct 30, 2007)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> I'm convinced that its Jessica, not Nikki, due entirely to Ali's acting. Agree with what has been said so far.
> 
> BUT... C'mon, Mr. Bennent tossing stuff around with his bare hands? Surely the company has his fingerprints, if no one else does.
> 
> Gack! I almost liked Bob at the end there. And I *know* he can't be trusted!



 Indeed.  I think the screaming, frantic, trying-to-escape one was Nikki, and the calm 'Nikki' Suresh saw afterwards in that episode was already Jessica again, and she is still Jessica now.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 30, 2007)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> So... when Kensai caught up with Hiro and the daughter... wow... that was pretty quick. They were all in the middle of the camp, and then Hiro teleported him and her out. It wasn't much longer before the kiss, yet Kensai got there in time to see.
> 
> Unless of course, Hiro's teleport also delayed their reappearance for a while.
> 
> Probably not a big deal, but it did catch my eye.




Plus, of course, the obvious problem of "when did Hiro put the scrolls in"....


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 30, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I think that would be awesome - Hiro tried to change the timeline, and is forever condemned to having to fix it.  It's a very dark ending for Hiro, which contrasts nicely with his optimistic nature.  In fact, I'm all for that being how Hiro turns into Future Hiro, and not simply Ando's death.




Well, my problem is, he fixes it correctly, then messes it up again, then fixes, then messes, ad nauseum and it'll get old real quick. (Especially if he ends up fixing stuff in the end and we've just watched the same legwork over and over again.)

It was odd to me that Hiro didn't just get a sword to the gut. I guess Kensei may have lost the combat and had to make a deal, but that doesn't make sense. I dunno.

The show doesn't seem to have a solid grasp on it's use of time-travel, and figuring out paradox & such. We'll see how it goes.


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## Blastin (Oct 30, 2007)

Agree with the general opinion in my dislike of Flyboy. Did notice one thing about him though: when he was trying to convince Claire about the trick he made a comment along the lines of :you are hot and have powers. You are inherently better than her. And the comment about "I can Fly. Makes parental supervision a non-issue". Both kind of "We are the superior race." Would be kinda cool if he went all Magnito and tried to take Claire with him.


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 30, 2007)

I feel sorry for Hiro.  It looks like uber Peter has stolen his shtick and he is no longer relevant to the plot. 

He should have spent more time DOING things for himself rather then acting like Kensai's Rail Roading GM.  Hell, history wouldn't know the difference.  If only he read more marvel or DC comic books or even watched wrestling and payed attention to those impostor storylines that pop up every several years.



Edit:  (an after thought)
Maybe History ISN'T Broke.  After all, the history we know might be a result of Hiro's actions.

  For instance, what if Kensai was one of White Beard's stooges who deserted and was to be murdered for his action BUT Hiro intervened and messed things up by making Kensai look like the hero that he wasn't.  This of course would make White Beard extremely pissed and send his men after kensai only to have kensai "reveal" that Hiro was impersonating Kensai and that it was he who was really killing White Beard's men. (This "reveal," of course, occurred after Kensai saw the kiss.)


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 30, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> Honduran Snooze Twins/Sylar: Thank you whoever coined the name. It would have been nice if the yahoos on the border had shot everyone in the car so we wouldn't have to deal with them anymore. But then Peter wouldn't have an epidemic future to teleport too.
> 
> Monica: She seems resolved. I am wondering where they are going with her.
> 
> ...




In my personal reality they are just figments of my imagination that Nightmare man created to ruin my viewing of Heroes.


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## Grog (Oct 30, 2007)

Meh. This episode didn't really hold my interest. It feels like the show's trying to do too much, and none of the characters and storylines are getting enough attention.

And, one thing I really didn't get - why did Claire yell at West after they pulled their stunt with the bitchy cheerleader? He showed her the mask - they had to have talked about what they were going to do beforehand, and presumably Claire agreed to it. So why was she angry with him? That didn't make any sense.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 30, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> Peter: I'm begnning to wonder if his girlfriend isn't a plant. I like amnesia Peter better than Emo Peter. Since he was on the Plaza with Parkman shouldn't he have mind reading as well.




He does, he read the brothers friends mind about betraying them after the heist. That is who Kristen Bell asks at the docks and he tells her where Peter is.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 30, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Plus, of course, the obvious problem of "when did Hiro put the scrolls in"....




During the last Hiro episode, the one where Ando found the scrolls, they showed Hiro putting them in the sword as he wrote them. So I think after writing a particular scroll, it gets shoved in the sword. That's why they stop at the kiss, because he got _knocked the @#$% out!_


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 30, 2007)

Blastin said:
			
		

> Agree with the general opinion in my dislike of Flyboy. Did notice one thing about him though: when he was trying to convince Claire about the trick he made a comment along the lines of :you are hot and have powers. You are inherently better than her. And the comment about "I can Fly. Makes parental supervision a non-issue". Both kind of "We are the superior race." Would be kinda cool if he went all Magnito and tried to take Claire with him.




I picked up on that comment as well.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 30, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Meh. This episode didn't really hold my interest. It feels like the show's trying to do too much, and none of the characters and storylines are getting enough attention.
> 
> And, one thing I really didn't get - why did Claire yell at West after they pulled their stunt with the bitchy cheerleader? He showed her the mask - they had to have talked about what they were going to do beforehand, and presumably Claire agreed to it. So why was she angry with him? That didn't make any sense.




If I am not mistaken when Claire was dropped and they panned the camera to her, there was some blood around her. How did she clean that up before the cops showed up. 


Just nit pickin


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 30, 2007)

With last nights episode I noticed a pattern between this season and last. A hero travels to the future and see the world destroyed, needs to travel back to the present and convince the other heroes to assemble to prevent that future from happening.

Now the virus outbreak in the future, is that Maya's black oil voodoo power, or is it the _cure_ that the company was working on that jumped to affect normal humans as Suresh said it could?


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 30, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> With last nights episode I noticed a pattern between this season and last. A hero travels to the future and see the world destroyed, needs to travel back to the present and convince the other heroes to assemble to prevent that future from happening.
> 
> Now the virus outbreak in the future, is that Maya's black oil voodoo power, or is it the _cure_ that the company was working on that jumped to affect normal humans as Suresh said it could?



My feelings, New York is doomed!  You can not change the the overall event but the details of the event.  Something bad happens in New York, that is the plot.  They keep trying to prevent an event, all they are doing is delaying or changing the details of it, in this case things got worse.  

I think it is the 'cure' that causes the mass extinction event because it was shown in one of Issac's paintings.  It will be interesting to see IF the Honduran Snooze Twins & Sylar are the saviors.   Also, Saylar as a romantic lead, oh my, the thoughts... 

Who the frell is Adam?


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## Grymar (Oct 30, 2007)

Blastin said:
			
		

> Agree with the general opinion in my dislike of Flyboy. Did notice one thing about him though: when he was trying to convince Claire about the trick he made a comment along the lines of :you are hot and have powers. You are inherently better than her. And the comment about "I can Fly. Makes parental supervision a non-issue". Both kind of "We are the superior race." Would be kinda cool if he went all Magnito and tried to take Claire with him.




My guess?  The original plan was for flyboy to scare the cheerleader and then have Claire there as a witness that there was nothing to see.  Then stalker-boy got all creative and decided to up the drama.


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## Grymar (Oct 30, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> With last nights episode I noticed a pattern between this season and last. A hero travels to the future and see the world destroyed, needs to travel back to the present and convince the other heroes to assemble to prevent that future from happening.
> 
> Now the virus outbreak in the future, is that Maya's black oil voodoo power, or is it the _cure_ that the company was working on that jumped to affect normal humans as Suresh said it could?




Good pickup.  We have two possible paths for the virus to start...The Company's work or Maya.  Either way, my gut feeling is that it is still her twin who holds the power to stop the virus.


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 30, 2007)

The best part, as it were, of tonight's episode was that it confirmed that a MAJOR SPOILER through to end of Episode 11 that leaked out on NBC's forums was, in fact, absolutely correct.

I'm not going to post any of that here - and do yourself a favor - don't chase it down. Really.

But as I now know the direction this season is now going to take, I'm very pleased with it and I expect most of the Heroes fans will be too.

At then end of last night's episode, we just moved into the Fast Lane


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## el-remmen (Oct 30, 2007)

I feel so alone in this thread.

I like both the Honduran Plague Twins (not "Snooze Twins" thanks ) and the Claire stuff.

Hiro's storyline is heartbreaking and awesome.


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## GlassJaw (Oct 30, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> I feel so alone in this thread.




I feel the same way.  I'm really enjoying the show and this season but when I come to read this thread, I feel like I should have hated it.  *shrug*  Maybe I don't analyze it as much as other people.


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## noretoc (Oct 30, 2007)

Rystil Arden said:
			
		

> Indeed.  I think the screaming, frantic, trying-to-escape one was Nikki, and the calm 'Nikki' Suresh saw afterwards in that episode was already Jessica again, and she is still Jessica now.




I think the attack on bob was a setup, so mohinder would trust Nikki.


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## redmagerush (Oct 30, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Who the frell is Adam?





My money is on it being Kensai.


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## Krug (Oct 30, 2007)

And the plot continues to move along by bits and pieces... and the last shot doesn't make me too optimistic.

[sblock]
Yet another avoid the apocalypse scenario? Isn't the avoid the prophecy thing that HRG is putting himself through bad enough?[/sblock]


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 30, 2007)

redmagerush said:
			
		

> My money is on it being Kensai.



Yea, that is a safe bet.


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## GoodKingJayIII (Oct 30, 2007)

I liked last night's episode.  Up until this point, something had been missing but I couldn't quite place my finger on it.  Then my g/f mentioned it and I think she's right:  it's the bomb.

Last season everyone had a single, unifying goal to get behind.  Not everyone agreed on the best course of action, but it was all focused around the explosion in NY and doing something with it.  Now Peter has been to the future and seen what will happen, and the purpose is beginning to unfold.

I like that there are hints of a grand plot, but I also don't want the show to become too formulaic.  I'm curious to see how things develop, and when Sylar gets his powers back.

Because you know he will.


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## WayneLigon (Oct 30, 2007)

Very good episode. I guess I'm alone in liking West; he's a good counterpoint to Claire, who wants to use her powers to help others while he sees his powers as making him better than others. Probably the only reason he isn't knocking over banks right now is that his power _is _ only flight; he'll have to think of creative ways to use it. I do expect Evil Cheerleader Gal to either commit suicide or manage to do something to Claire so that they have to run again. 

I don't mind the Hondurans either. I was very pleased at the scene with Sylar and Alejandro.

Yeah, I think that's Jessica in the last scene. She seems far too self-assured.

I'm glad Mohinder did what he did. Bob knows Mohinder is important to them, so I think that's why he backpedaled. He knows he can push Mohinder too far, now, too quickly. I'd love to see Monica become St. Joan and become the first person to put on a mask  (Joan of Arc -> Orleans -> _New _ Orleans -> Monica). 

OK, the Generations arc is the first part of this season; anyone know when the third arc begins? All I know is that Episode 8 is the 'Four Months Ago' show that shows how we got from Point A to Point B.


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## Grymar (Oct 30, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> I feel the same way.  I'm really enjoying the show and this season but when I come to read this thread, I feel like I should have hated it.  *shrug*  Maybe I don't analyze it as much as other people.




I really enjoyed the episode, and I actually like the twins.  Maybe their role is a bit of a rehash ever episode, but I like where they are going with it.  And the now-impotent Sylar going along with them is excellent.

West/Claire - I'm not writing this off yet.  It is fairly boring now, but I trust the writers have something in mind other than just Heroes 90210.  There is going to be something big happening there.

Finally, it just occurred to me who White Beard is that Hiro/Kensai have to fight!


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 30, 2007)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Very good episode. I guess I'm alone in liking West; he's a good counterpoint to Claire, who wants to use her powers to help others while he sees his powers as making him better than others. Probably the only reason he isn't knocking over banks right now is that his power _is _ only flight; he'll have to think of creative ways to use it. I do expect Evil Cheerleader Gal to either commit suicide or manage to do something to Claire so that they have to run again.



And you think using a ski mask was an accident.       Come to the dark side Claire!


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## megamania (Oct 30, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> I feel so alone in this thread.
> 
> I like both the Honduran Plague Twins (not "Snooze Twins" thanks ) and the Claire stuff.
> 
> Hiro's storyline is heartbreaking and awesome.





Try my situation-  I have no TV so I saw Heroes DVD and became hooked.  Now I read and listen and through in thoughts but will not see the show again until next September when I buy the DVDs for Season II.  Then people will want to talk about season III instead.   groan.... can't win.


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## el-remmen (Oct 30, 2007)

megamania said:
			
		

> Try my situation-  I have no TV so I saw Heroes DVD and became hooked.  Now I read and listen and through in thoughts but will not see the show again until next September when I buy the DVDs for Season II.  Then people will want to talk about season III instead.   groan.... can't win.




You can stream them on Netflix.  Or watch them at NBC.com, I believe.


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## DonTadow (Oct 30, 2007)

I liked the evil look of the female twin yesterday.  For the first time she wasn't crying and whining about her power, she was assertive.  Sylar must have a super high Charisma modifier.  I wouldn't be surprised if the brother didn't make it to the U.S. and Sylar is the sole person in position of the ability to stop her plague.  

Flyboy wasn't as bad either, I like the turning of Clair to the dark side.  I found the hiro stuff kinda silly. Hiro knows about the time continium.  Maybe I"m the kind of person who puts his duty above love.  I also don't know how Kensei got to "that" locaton so quickly.  Is Kinsei an impath?  Is hiro the dragon who takes the Kensei's heart (the princess.  Storywise I see the connection.  What if Kensei has been waiting until this moment to kill Ando, thus taking Hiro's heart and turning him cold.  

I'm surprised that they didn't explain the fast travel quicker by having peter accidently teleport them to Montreal.  now they've left a paper trail (passports, plane flights).  

The border scene was silly too. All those men can't break into the add placement car.  I want to buy one now.  No one thought to damage the tires.  

i wonder who Adam Morgan is.  What if peter was working with HRG and then went missing, forcing HRG to go with the more drastic plan b to take down the company.  Possible thought is that Peter had to locate the Hatian and the Hatian wiped him out like he did Mohinder.


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## F5 (Oct 30, 2007)

I have a theory about Peter's memory loss and the Haitian's involvement.  I couldn't figure out why Peter was wearing the Haitian's necklace.  There are dozens of good reasons why the Haitian might have mind-wiped Peter, but why leave behind the necklace, except to act as some kind of a message.

I think we'll have our answer when Pete catches up with Elle (Ellie?  Is that her name?  Veronica Mars/lightning girl, you know who I mean).  What if Peter was working FOR the company, and Ellie was his partner?  Possibly, the company's biggest enforcers were sent after the Haitian to bring him in and, obviously, failed.  Haitian wiped peter, and sent him back to the company with his necklace around Peter's neck, as a message: "You sent the best you had after me, and this is what you get back.  Leave me alone."

Why would Peter be working for the Company?  No idea.  Especially considering the note from "Adam", confirming that the Company was up to no good.  It's just a theory, after all...


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 30, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> During the last Hiro episode, the one where Ando found the scrolls, they showed Hiro putting them in the sword as he wrote them. So I think after writing a particular scroll, it gets shoved in the sword. That's why they stop at the kiss, because he got _knocked the @#$% out!_




I"m not sure if he "narrated" the kiss, but the attack was in the scrolls at the very start of the episode. So, at the least, he had time between kiss and betrayel to write the scrolls and stuff them in the sword he wasn't near.

The scrolls are neat in and of themselves, but it still leaves me with the "why doesn't he just time travel later and leave Ando some info instead of altering reality by adding scrolls to the sword". If Bill & Ted can remember "hey, lets go back in time later and leave the keys here", why can't Hiro?

I'm also reasonably sure katana's don't have note-holes.

I'm also reasonably sure a weaponsmith that crafted a legendary katana would have suggested they use something else to break the chains.

I'm not sure whether the katana COULD break the chains...


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 30, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Hiro knows about the time continium.  Maybe I"m the kind of person who puts his duty above love.  I also don't know how Kensei got to "that" locaton so quickly.  Is Kinsei an impath?  Is hiro the dragon who takes the Kensei's heart (the princess.  Storywise I see the connection.  What if Kensei has been waiting until this moment to kill Ando, thus taking Hiro's heart and turning him cold.



It's entirely possible Hiro is the dragon to which kensei gives his heart (princess) and gets it back, fits. What I don't like is the idea that he's "breaking history" with his actions, when the Kensei "history" is a legend with probably very little historical basis.




> The border scene was silly too. All those men can't break into the add placement car.  I want to buy one now.  No one thought to damage the tires.



I'm sure it'd be too "real world" to discuss, but since it was a copy of "minutemen" and they don't DO that, the entire scene was stupid to me. Since I'd have prefered Sylar to die last season (and though I've somewhat enjoyed Nathan, he should also be dead), the entire plotline is irksome to me.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 31, 2007)

The question: Will notes just appear, each one a small ripple in time, a change to the future!


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## Dire Bare (Oct 31, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> I feel so alone in this thread.
> 
> I like both the Honduran Plague Twins (not "Snooze Twins" thanks ) and the Claire stuff.
> 
> Hiro's storyline is heartbreaking and awesome.



I'm with ya!  I'm liking everything about Season 2 so far.


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## Dire Bare (Oct 31, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> I feel the same way.  I'm really enjoying the show and this season but when I come to read this thread, I feel like I should have hated it.  *shrug*  Maybe I don't *over*analyze it as much as other people.



Fixed it for you!


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## Dire Bare (Oct 31, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> My friend asked me why The Company didn't recruit Monica to be Mohinder's partner, considering her ability.  Vastly more useful than super strength, I think.



The company is more concerned with controlling Mohinder than making him more effective.

The company doesn't control Monica . . . yet.  They do control Nikki/Jessica . . . at least for now.


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## Dire Bare (Oct 31, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Plus, of course, the obvious problem of "when did Hiro put the scrolls in"....



Offscreen.  Easy.


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## Dire Bare (Oct 31, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> And, one thing I really didn't get - why did Claire yell at West after they pulled their stunt with the bitchy cheerleader? He showed her the mask - they had to have talked about what they were going to do beforehand, and presumably Claire agreed to it. So why was she angry with him? That didn't make any sense.



She just played a very mean trick on a person and scared the crap out of her.  Granted, the head cheerleader was a very mean, spiteful byotch, but still, Claire isn't fully comfortable with the direction West is leading her in.

I have a bad feeling about this . . . that stunt is going to turn around and bite Claire in the rear!


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## Dire Bare (Oct 31, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> The show doesn't seem to have a solid grasp on it's use of time-travel, and figuring out paradox & such. We'll see how it goes.



Solid grasp on time travel?  Heh, no such thing.  I do think they've been consistent so far, however.

All the talk about Peter and Hiro not using their time travel abilities wisely forgets one important fact and theme in this show . . . they are all still learning how to use their powers!  Even uber-competent Future Hiro, who had a much firmer grasp on time travel than Present-Day Hiro, made some serious errors in his effort to fix the future.

Hiro isn't bopping around space-time leaving presents and notes for Ando because he is unsure he can make it back to Feudal Japan.  He simply hasn't developed his powers to that degree yet.

Besides, if Hiro had everything down pat, the show would be boring!  "Oops, made a mistake!  That's okay, all I have to do is time-travel back a few minutes and I'll get that fixed right up!"  Hiro could resolve all the plot points in Seasons 1 and 2 with expert time-travel.  Booorrrrriiinnnngggg!


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## Dire Bare (Oct 31, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> I feel sorry for Hiro.  It looks like uber Peter has stolen his shtick and he is no longer relevant to the plot.



Yet.

I have a feeling that will change.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 31, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Solid grasp on time travel?  Heh, no such thing.  I do think they've been consistent so far, however.
> 
> All the talk about Peter and Hiro not using their time travel abilities wisely forgets one important fact and theme in this show . . . they are all still learning how to use their powers!  Even uber-competent Future Hiro, who had a much firmer grasp on time travel than Present-Day Hiro, made some serious errors in his effort to fix the future.
> 
> ...





It comes down to seeing what you want to see really. You see the show as being consistent, I don't. I don't think Hiro has shown the slightest trace of common sense in his use of time& space travel. For an intelligent person to decide "no, I will stay in the past and have fun!" rather than "yes, I will return to Ando, then come right back to here when I'm bored", it's just irksome to me.

Time Travel, IMO, is horridly portrayed and used. It's a massive plot device that does only what is needed for the plot, with no internal logic to it.

But, as I said, these things come down to opinion. If the ratings are still good, then I'd say the majority doesn't agree with me and the show should continue it's current direction. I can find other things to watch, or just play Halo3 until I kill another 360, the world moves on.


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## DonTadow (Oct 31, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> It comes down to seeing what you want to see really. You see the show as being consistent, I don't. I don't think Hiro has shown the slightest trace of common sense in his use of time& space travel. For an intelligent person to decide "no, I will stay in the past and have fun!" rather than "yes, I will return to Ando, then come right back to here when I'm bored", it's just irksome to me.
> 
> Time Travel, IMO, is horridly portrayed and used. It's a massive plot device that does only what is needed for the plot, with no internal logic to it.
> 
> But, as I said, these things come down to opinion. If the ratings are still good, then I'd say the majority doesn't agree with me and the show should continue it's current direction. I can find other things to watch, or just play Halo3 until I kill another 360, the world moves on.



I agree. Hiro has exceptional power of his powers, sure he can not stop parts of time, but he has proven that once he got over his sword fetish he can teleport and time travel pretty effiencently.  I don't get why he is not just beaming back and forth through time.  Plus he could easily have teleported the whole lot into the place, got the guns out, gut the smith out and warped back to tell Ando about it.  Time travel doesn't work as a good superpower.  That's why I limit it my M and M game. The goodguys will always win because the hero can just go back in time.  Vilians can only make minor victories becuase anything too major the heros could go back and change (ala hiro last season kept going back to see how he could change the nuclear blast). 

I had a thought last season that maybe Hiro was only suppose to teleport and somone thought it was a good idea to time travel as well.

Hey, what if peter and the irish woman cause the virus by traveling back to the present after being infected.


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## ThirdWizard (Oct 31, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I'm not sure whether the katana COULD break the chains...




Maybe. But, it would be _completely ruined_ afterward if it did. Well, really after the first blow it would be ruined either way.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 31, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I agree. Hiro has exceptional power of his powers, sure he can not stop parts of time, but he has proven that once he got over his sword fetish he can teleport and time travel pretty effiencently.




He still hasn't mastered his powers, I guess, but that's just another part of his confidence issues that became so repetitive last season for me.

It comes down to this;
There may be an underlying rule, drafted from the start, that governs what can be done to the timeline. Some folks assume this, I assume that they have basically only a very rough idea of a "time rule" and change it as the plot demands.

And, like I said, if Hiro isn't as smart as Bill & Ted when it comes to handling time travel...


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## Mistwell (Oct 31, 2007)

I am rapidly becoming bored with this season.  Which would have shocked my past-self by the end of last season.


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## Grog (Oct 31, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> She just played a very mean trick on a person and scared the crap out of her.  Granted, the head cheerleader was a very mean, spiteful byotch, but still, Claire isn't fully comfortable with the direction West is leading her in.



If Claire had problems with the stunt she and West were going to pull, the time to voice her objections was before they pulled it, not after. Yelling at West for doing something that she agreed to help him do beforehand just makes her look irrational.



			
				Dire Bare said:
			
		

> I have a bad feeling about this . . . that stunt is going to turn around and bite Claire in the rear!



Well, considering that West committed assault against that cheerleader, and Claire was his willing accomplice, I hope they suffer some consequences for it.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Oct 31, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> If Claire had problems with the stunt she and West were going to pull, the time to voice her objections was before they pulled it, not after. Yelling at West for doing something that she agreed to help him do beforehand just makes her look irrational.




Not that I'm a big fan of the whole Claire/West thing, but...

Have you never been talked into something by someone and then after, turned to them and said something along the lines of, "I can't BELIEVE you talked me into that!!" and then maybe even gone on to rant about how stupid it was?


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## Victim (Oct 31, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I agree. Hiro has exceptional power of his powers, sure he can not stop parts of time, but he has proven that once he got over his sword fetish he can teleport and time travel pretty effiencently.  I don't get why he is not just beaming back and forth through time.  Plus he could easily have teleported the whole lot into the place, got the guns out, gut the smith out and warped back to tell Ando about it.  Time travel doesn't work as a good superpower.  That's why I limit it my M and M game. The goodguys will always win because the hero can just go back in time.  Vilians can only make minor victories becuase anything too major the heros could go back and change (ala hiro last season kept going back to see how he could change the nuclear blast).
> 
> I had a thought last season that maybe Hiro was only suppose to teleport and somone thought it was a good idea to time travel as well.
> 
> Hey, what if peter and the irish woman cause the virus by traveling back to the present after being infected.




Actually, it seems to me that Hiro barely has any control over his time travel ability.  Time stops and teleports he controls with increasing skill.  But his uses of time travel have been fraught with problems and accidents.  He tries to go back to earlier in the day to save Charlie and ends up months off.  Even Future Hiro, who was using his time travel in a controlled fashion, spent massive amounts of effort to be able aim his power and then took great pains to minimize other impacts of his time travel ability.  

It seems basically like a GM controlled power in MnM.  Or perhaps only with a hero point.


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## PhoenixDarkDirk (Nov 1, 2007)

noretoc said:
			
		

> I think the attack on bob was a setup, so mohinder would trust Nikki.




My theory was that it was to make Mohinder willing to use the taser.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 1, 2007)

I wonder if this season, we will see Heroes falling to the "Dark Side"?

Maya (with some help of Gabriel) becomes more and more willing to use her abilities to get what she wants. 
Claire is tempted by West to disturb a (albeit stupid) cheerleader.
Kensei has turned against Hiro and working for White Beard.
HRG (not a "Hero"-hero, but at least a major character) returns back to his ruthless personality (if he ever changed it), and the Haitian is his willing accomplice.

To a lesser extent: 
Nikki might (or might not) be overcome by Jessicas personality and works for the Company.
Peter feels the temptation to just kill people who stand in his way (but still resisted).
Mohinder works for the Company and barely manages to resist his orders to test a serum on an innocent young woman.


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## Ilium (Nov 1, 2007)

Yes, the "dark side" seems like a pretty prominent theme.  I also like the idea that The Company may not be completely evil.  Bob talks about a "change in policy" (or something to that effect).  They do seem to be helping Nikki (maybe), etc.

Random theory of the day: Kensei has fast-healing powers.  He's English (i.e. white northern european).  I wonder if he's an ancestor of Claire's on her (blonde) mother's side?

Random theory of the day 2: Does it seem to anyone else that (at least sometimes) the heroes' abilities are activated by contact with another hero?  Two pieces of evidence: 
1) Monica did some minor stuff (the tomato) but after Micah hugged her it seemed like something happened and her power reached another level (and in fact the power was completely absent until Micah arrived).
2) Kensei can fast-heal.  Cool.  But in his time period and line of work, you'd think he would have noticed before.  I don't think he had the power at all until he met Hiro.

Discuss.  Throw rocks.


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## wolff96 (Nov 1, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> Random theory of the day 2: Does it seem to anyone else that (at least sometimes) the heroes' abilities are activated by contact with another hero?  Two pieces of evidence:
> 1) Monica did some minor stuff (the tomato) but after Micah hugged her it seemed like something happened and her power reached another level (and in fact the power was completely absent until Micah arrived).
> 2) Kensei can fast-heal.  Cool.  But in his time period and line of work, you'd think he would have noticed before.  I don't think he had the power at all until he met Hiro.




I'm not disputing your general theory -- they may be going for an "activation" effect.

Still, In Kensei's case...  He fought like a guerilla warrior.  He used distraction tactics to take foes by surprise and ambush bandits.  In the material that we saw, he never even drew the "Godsend" sword.  And keep in mind that he supposedly gained his powers after finding the sword in Hiro's memories of the legends.

I guess it comes down to how dangerous his life was until he met Hiro.  The impression I got from the episode was that Kensei was just starting out as a mercenary.  He had jumped ship and decided to become a travelling warrior, with the bandits being one of his first jobs.  Obviously, your mileage may vary.  But if what I got from the episode is what the writers intended, then it's quite possible that he was never seriously injured before the arrow volley.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 1, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> Yes, the "dark side" seems like a pretty prominent theme.  I also like the idea that The Company may not be completely evil.  Bob talks about a "change in policy" (or something to that effect).  They do seem to be helping Nikki (maybe), etc.
> 
> Random theory of the day: Kensei has fast-healing powers.  He's English (i.e. white northern european).  I wonder if he's an ancestor of Claire's on her (blonde) mother's side?



Despite the reason for superpowers presumably genetics, there is little evidence that suggests that the exact superpower manifested is actually passed on genetically. 
The only exception we have seen so far might be Matt and his father. But even that isn't entirely sure. Claire, her (real) mother, Peter and Nathan have totally dissimilar powers. Mica, DL and Nikki have totally unrelated power. 
Maybe Sylar and Peter indicate that everybody of them can have any power, but due to some outside circumstances, certain powers manifested earlier. Maybe there is some kind of trigger that activates the genes, and the trigger determines which powers a character gets. 
Nikki needed strength when her sister died, and she got it. DL needed to escape custody, and he could go through walls. Hiro didn't want to be where he was, and learned to teleport. Nathan needed to escape his car, and flew away. Claire needed to survive the fire that burned her home, and learned to regenerate. Candice didn't like her looks, and learned illusions. 



> Random theory of the day 2: Does it seem to anyone else that (at least sometimes) the heroes' abilities are activated by contact with another hero?  Two pieces of evidence:
> 1) Monica did some minor stuff (the tomato) but after Micah hugged her it seemed like something happened and her power reached another level (and in fact the power was completely absent until Micah arrived).
> 2) Kensei can fast-heal.  Cool.  But in his time period and line of work, you'd think he would have noticed before.  I don't think he had the power at all until he met Hiro.
> 
> Discuss.  Throw rocks.



That is possible, but it does not seem to fit everywhere. 
Nathan didn't seem near any superpowered individuals when he flew the first time. There seemed to be no superpowered around Hiro when the stopped time in his bureau or teleported in the bar's toilet rooms, or the subway. 
Kensei acted more like a coward (but a clever one) when we first met him, so maybe he avoided any actual injury that would make regeneration obvious.

Still, I think it is possible that having a hero around helps things.


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## Ilium (Nov 1, 2007)

wolff96 said:
			
		

> I'm not disputing your general theory -- they may be going for an "activation" effect.
> 
> Still, In Kensei's case...  He fought like a guerilla warrior.  He used distraction tactics to take foes by surprise and ambush bandits.  In the material that we saw, he never even drew the "Godsend" sword.  And keep in mind that he supposedly gained his powers after finding the sword in Hiro's memories of the legends.
> 
> I guess it comes down to how dangerous his life was until he met Hiro.  The impression I got from the episode was that Kensei was just starting out as a mercenary.  He had jumped ship and decided to become a travelling warrior, with the bandits being one of his first jobs.  Obviously, your mileage may vary.  But if what I got from the episode is what the writers intended, then it's quite possible that he was never seriously injured before the arrow volley.




True (and as Mustrum Ridcully points out, some people have manifested powers without being around others first...that we know of).  But in Kensei's case, the regular bumps and bruises of life should have made him realize.  That's how Claire figured it out, I believe.

Maybe it was the otherwise-fatal wound that triggered his power rather than Hiro, though.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 1, 2007)

Hiro's situation was strange since hiro seemed to be the only person that was actively trying to develop powers before he even knew he had them.   I wonder what other stories Kiato might have told hiro while he was young, or if Hiro might have witnessed something when he was brought to company a gathering.


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## F5 (Nov 1, 2007)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> That is possible, but it does not seem to fit everywhere.
> Nathan didn't seem near any superpowered individuals when he flew the first time. There seemed to be no superpowered around Hiro when the stopped time in his bureau or teleported in the bar's toilet rooms, or the subway.




Don't forget that both of them had parents who were probably powered as well.  Ma Patrelli was around Nathan the night he first manifested his powers, and presumably, Kaito was in the office when Hiro first stopped time.  We never actually saw any of their powers, but they had enough involvement with powered people that some kind of contact seemed inevitable.

I've been toying with another idea about how powers are activated.  Maybe it's not so much that you get the power you need, but that you get the power you're given by someone else?

*HRG wants, more than anything, to keep claire safe: she can regenerate any injury.
*Gabriel's mother wants her son to be Special: we get Sylar.
*Micah wants his dad back: DL can walk through walls
*Matt's wife wants him to know what she's thinking without having to tell him: we get Mindreader Matt.
*Hiro wants Kensai to stay alive: another regenerator
*Ma Petrelli wants a hero that can change the world: Peter.

It's maybe a bit of a stretch, but it seems that the power you get is partially the power you need, and partially the power that someone else needs you to have.


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## Fast Learner (Nov 1, 2007)

I just want to chime in that I also believe that Kensei is immortal, and that he is indeed this Adam character, and that the naming is no accident, that he is in some sense the progenitor of the powers.


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## Fast Learner (Nov 1, 2007)

(Duplicate post, delete me)


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## DonTadow (Nov 3, 2007)

I liked this episode, but now i worry about the future of the series. A thread hasn't made it here yet, but they canceled Heroes origin because Heroes ratings are down by 6 percent. I don't understand the tv business and how it has more to do with math than entertainment.


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## DonTadow (Nov 3, 2007)

F5 said:
			
		

> Don't forget that both of them had parents who were probably powered as well.  Ma Patrelli was around Nathan the night he first manifested his powers, and presumably, Kaito was in the office when Hiro first stopped time.  We never actually saw any of their powers, but they had enough involvement with powered people that some kind of contact seemed inevitable.
> 
> I've been toying with another idea about how powers are activated.  Maybe it's not so much that you get the power you need, but that you get the power you're given by someone else?
> 
> ...



I think there's a feint veil of that in an imaginary sence, but it has no baring on the plot.
Claire had her powers before she met HRG (the fire). 
Dl could walk through walls, and was known for it, before Micha wanted his dad back. 
All women want you to read their minds (dodges book).  
Kensai's story may have been kensais story without Hiro.  If hiro caused regeneration in Kenasai instead of some other power he's screwd history. 
Ma Petrelli wants Nathan to save the world, Peter she has given up on.


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## Richards (Nov 3, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Claire had her powers before she met HRG (the fire).



Say what now?  Claire was raised by HRG since she was a baby.  I don't think she could regenerate before she was adopted by the Bennetts as a baby, could she?

Johnathan


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## Fast Learner (Nov 3, 2007)

Richards said:
			
		

> Say what now?  Claire was raised by HRG since she was a baby.  I don't think she could regenerate before she was adopted by the Bennetts as a baby, could she?



It may be why she survived the fire, if there actually was one.


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## dravot (Nov 3, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> It may be why she survived the fire, if there actually was one.




Right.  We don't know for sure, but it was implied that may be the reason.


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## dravot (Nov 3, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I liked this episode, but now i worry about the future of the series. A thread hasn't made it here yet, but they canceled Heroes origin because Heroes ratings are down by 6 percent. I don't understand the tv business and how it has more to do with math than entertainment.




Noooooooooo


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## DonTadow (Nov 3, 2007)

dravot said:
			
		

> Noooooooooo



Yeah, check out the forums of circum( i thought that all the enworlders were on there too but its a different set of people)

People are complaining about how slow the season is (i thought it was going at the same pace as last)

About having too many characters (thought it had the same amount as last) 

How there are too many plots (i thought it was far more complicated last season in the beginning before you knew the characters)

I am starting to think that like all shows on broadcast television Heroes will end after 3 or 4 seasons.  It reminds me of the hype around battlestar galatica.  Strong start, then people get tired of thinking.


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## Krug (Nov 4, 2007)

There are too many things similar to last season. The painting thing, and now the 'destruction' thing, HRG's good/evil thing. I thought the introduction of Kristin Bell was a good start. Like any Superheroes story, you need more super villains!


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 4, 2007)

Why do I have a feeling that if Heroes survives to season 3, the big event that Hiro or Peter will witness happening in Future New York will be a super villain that can cause a natural disaster.  That or zombies or killer bees.


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## Cor Azer (Nov 4, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I liked this episode, but now i worry about the future of the series. A thread hasn't made it here yet, but they canceled Heroes origin because Heroes ratings are down by 6 percent. I don't understand the tv business and how it has more to do with math than entertainment.




I heard not so much cancelled, but put on hold due to the looming Writer's Guild strike - no writers, no episodes to film.

I think that's why so few series this season have been cancelled, even if they're not doing so hot - everyone is stockpiling episodes and using what they can before going into reruns.


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## LightPhoenix (Nov 4, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Why do I have a feeling that if Heroes survives to season 3, the big event that Hiro or Peter will witness happening in Future New York will be a super villain that can cause a natural disaster.  That or zombies or killer bees.




KILLER BEES!!!!


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## dravot (Nov 4, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> KILLER BEES!!!!




Or Zombie Killer Bees!

"Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you?" - H. Simpson


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## hafrogman (Nov 5, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Hey, what if peter and the irish woman cause the virus by traveling back to the present after being infected.



I kind of like this one.  We have an ultimate result, and a variety of ways to achieve that end.

Like in the first season, everyone assumed a bomb, then Ted, then Sylar, then Peter.  When one avenue of distruction is averted, things soon twist themselves to get things back on the track.  It takes a major event for the train to jump to an entirely new track.

Now we have a world wiped out by disease.

Is it Maya's power run rampant?
Sylar with Maya's power?
Peter with Maya's power?
The company's experiments with Shandi's disease?  The vial shown in the painting?
One of the vials broken by Mohinder in his fit of rage?
Infections carried by time travel?


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## Vocenoctum (Nov 5, 2007)

While we're at it, do any of Isaac's paintings matter since they changed the timeline and saved NY the last time? It seems we're supposed to take them as the future, but since the timeline has changed...

Heck, how could Isaac have predicted things like this anyway? He was dead before the  5 Years Later changed things again. Ah well, plot device it is.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 5, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> While we're at it, do any of Isaac's paintings matter since they changed the timeline and saved NY the last time? It seems we're supposed to take them as the future, but since the timeline has changed...
> 
> Heck, how could Isaac have predicted things like this anyway? He was dead before the  5 Years Later changed things again. Ah well, plot device it is.




Here's the most probable explanation that the writers will give:  Issac painted a lot of things that did not pertain to last years plot and the viral outbreak was supposed to happen 10 years into the future but unfortunately the timeline was pushed  forward when the disaster was averted.


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## Ilium (Nov 5, 2007)

So I saw an ad yesterday where they pretty much said the plague was/will be caused by the company's experiment (the image was Nikki/Jessica holding the syringe that Mohinder was supposed to use on Micah's cousin, and the voice-over said something like "all from a few drops of this").  They're really pushing the next 5 episodes as a self-contained arc that will be very eventful.  Is November a sweeps month?


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## Victim (Nov 5, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> So I saw an ad yesterday where they pretty much said the plague was/will be caused by the company's experiment (the image was Nikki/Jessica holding the syringe that Mohinder was supposed to use on Micah's cousin, and the voice-over said something like "all from a few drops of this").  They're really pushing the next 5 episodes as a self-contained arc that will be very eventful.  Is November a sweeps month?




I think it's because of the writer's strike.  They want to be able to wrap things up if the strike lasts a while.


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## DonTadow (Nov 6, 2007)

I also heard today that they will be filming an alternative season finale in case they end the season december 8th.


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## Brown Jenkin (Nov 6, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> While we're at it, do any of Isaac's paintings matter since they changed the timeline and saved NY the last time? It seems we're supposed to take them as the future, but since the timeline has changed...
> 
> Heck, how could Isaac have predicted things like this anyway? He was dead before the  5 Years Later changed things again. Ah well, plot device it is.




Issacs paintings all came true, it is mearly a matter of who's perspective you are looking at. The bomb exploded and NY was ruined in Hiro's Timeline. Hiro did see all of those things and still has memory of them, so what Issac painted did come true. Everything Issac (and now Peter) litterally come true, they just don't always show what you think they show when you look at them. In this season there is a man dead with a bullet through horn rimmed glasses. I fully expect this to come true, the difference is that the dead man may not be Noah but rather someone else wearing his or similar glasses.


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## Vocenoctum (Nov 6, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> Issacs paintings all came true, it is mearly a matter of who's perspective you are looking at. The bomb exploded and NY was ruined in Hiro's Timeline. Hiro did see all of those things and still has memory of them, so what Issac painted did come true.




I'm sorry, but that's simply besides the point. In the current timeline the bomb didn't go off and destroy NY, and therefor any other pictures aren't bound to this timeline either. If you believe these paintings become true in some alternate timeline, that's possible, but that doesn't really have any bearing for the reality we're being shown.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 6, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but that's simply besides the point. In the current timeline the bomb didn't go off and destroy NY, and therefor any other pictures aren't bound to this timeline either. If you believe these paintings become true in some alternate timeline, that's possible, but that doesn't really have any bearing for the reality we're being shown.





Then in other words, Issac's power is not really to paint the future BUT instead to paint a POSSIBLE future.   This would be inline with how prophecy works since half the time a prediction is made so that the events stated within it could be changed.


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## Brown Jenkin (Nov 6, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but that's simply besides the point. In the current timeline the bomb didn't go off and destroy NY, and therefor any other pictures aren't bound to this timeline either. If you believe these paintings become true in some alternate timeline, that's possible, but that doesn't really have any bearing for the reality we're being shown.




But Issac did not paint an alternate timeline, he painted the existing timeline. Unless you think that existing Hiro (and now Peter) are not part of our current timeline because they teleported to a alternate timeline and back. All of Issac's paintings have come true in our current timeline, the ones showing New York destroyed and Peter in the biohazard room both were painted before they lept to the future and saw those particular events. Once they did the paintings were true for our current timeline because someone in our current timeline experienced them (and remembers them) no matter what the real future holds. 

Too further demonstrate my point in the series of eight this year the picture of Peter in the biohazard room is sequentially before the painting that looks like HRG being shot even though the Peter painting painting is theoretically in the future. This is because Peter experiences that (and is true for him) before the HRG painting in the current timeline. 

Also last year Issac painted Peter exploding. Peter did explode but he did so far above NYC. Everyone assumed that because there was a painting of NYC destroyed by a nuke blast and one of Peter exploding that these were the same event. They were not, they were seperate events that happened to seperate people each happening at different points in the timestream.


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## Vocenoctum (Nov 7, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> But Issac did not paint an alternate timeline, he painted the existing timeline. Unless you think that existing Hiro (and now Peter) are not part of our current timeline because they teleported to a alternate timeline and back. All of Issac's paintings have come true in our current timeline, the ones showing New York destroyed and Peter in the biohazard room both were painted before they lept to the future and saw those particular events. Once they did the paintings were true for our current timeline because someone in our current timeline experienced them (and remembers them) no matter what the real future holds.
> 
> Too further demonstrate my point in the series of eight this year the picture of Peter in the biohazard room is sequentially before the painting that looks like HRG being shot even though the Peter painting painting is theoretically in the future. This is because Peter experiences that (and is true for him) before the HRG painting in the current timeline.




The point is that Isaac painted stuff, and that stuff is not currently in whatever timeline happened. Therefor anything after that is questionable. It's certainly not impossible for the stuff to happen, but not the sure thing folks figured it'd be for the NY Blast. He's painting times, not experiences. I'm not sure if the "dead Bennet" painting is 8 of 8, sinc the others were out of order. I'm not sure why Prophecy Paintings would paint "experiences", it invalidates the entire concept.

Either way, I think the answer is that they should have had another Prophet Painter, rather than "finding" unknwon works by Isaac.


----------

