# Ms Marvel trailer



## pukunui (Mar 16, 2022)

Hey all,

Just discovered that Ms Marvel has a trailer now. Looks pretty good.


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## Hex08 (Mar 16, 2022)

I'll watch it because I am an uber-comic geek and happily give it a chance to surprise me, but this is the first MCU outing that I have no real interest in. Nothing against the show but it just looks like it's targeting an audience younger than a 53-year-old dude.


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## pukunui (Mar 16, 2022)

Hex08 said:


> I'll watch it because I am an uber-comic geek and happily give it a chance to surprise me, but this is the first MCU outing that I have no real interest in. Nothing against the show but it just looks like it's targeting an audience younger than a 53-year-old dude.



Fair enough. It's definitely got a high school melodrama vibe.

As an aside, I was so sure the music playing in the trailer was an actual 80s song, but apparently it's just a song by the Weeknd that is inspired by 80s music (but isn't actually copying / sampling any specific song).


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## JEB (Mar 16, 2022)

Hmm. Dunno what I think about the change to her powers. Guess it works better on a TV screen than stretching and shapeshifting, though.


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## pukunui (Mar 16, 2022)

JEB said:


> Hmm. Dunno what I think about the change to her powers. Guess it works better on a TV screen than stretching and shapeshifting, though.



I suspect they also wanted to give her a more cosmic vibe for her appearance alongside Monica and Carol in the upcoming Marvels movie.


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## Thourne (Mar 16, 2022)

Likely, some avoiding stepping on the inevitable Mr Richards arrival by mirroring his abilities as well.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 16, 2022)

pukunui said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just discovered that Ms Marvel has a trailer now. Looks pretty good.




This seems like it has a great feel good energy. Will be watching!


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 16, 2022)

JEB said:


> Hmm. Dunno what I think about the change to her powers. Guess it works better on a TV screen than stretching and shapeshifting, though.




I noted that too, but, well, its really hard to not make stretching look goofy (though Marvel is going to have to engage with it at some point).


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## DeviousQuail (Mar 16, 2022)

I'll certainly check it out. I'm new to the character so not sure what to expect. The trailer makes it seem like something I might not watch right away when new episodes come out unlike the other Disney+ shows. But Marvel has a solid track record so I'm sure I'll watch it all at some point.


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Mar 16, 2022)

Hex08 said:


> I'll watch it because I am an uber-comic geek and happily give it a chance to surprise me, but this is the first MCU outing that I have no real interest in. Nothing against the show but it just looks like it's targeting an audience younger than a 53-year-old dude.




So that means you don't like any of the Spider-Man films either? Set in high school, after all. Or is it because they actually chose an actress who is close to her character's age, rather then being 8-12 years older than the character?


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Mar 16, 2022)

pukunui said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just discovered that Ms Marvel has a trailer now. Looks pretty good.




Yep, it was announced Tuesday morning with a trailer and a poster and the official start date of June 8th. That also means for the first time we will have a Star Wars series, Obi-Wan with a start date of May 25, and a Marvel series going at the same time on Disney+. That will be two new episodes on Wednesdays during most of June.


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## Khelon Testudo (Mar 16, 2022)

I'll sure have a look at it.

If I bounce, likely because I'm not the intended audience. Which is ok, and not a dis. Not every show has to be my cuppa tea.


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## Benjamin Olson (Mar 16, 2022)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> So that means you don't like any of the Spider-Man films either? Set in high school, after all. Or is it because they actually chose an actress who is close to her character's age, rather then being 8-12 years older than the character?



This seems much more High School-centric than the Spiderman movies I've seen (which, admittedly, I think is less than half of them these days). Spiderman certainly doesn't spend a lot of screen time navigating High School in the Sam Raimi movies. I don't remember any of the other movies well enough to opine.

To be clear, having it be more about the impact of superpowers on life in High School than about the actual superheroic adventures is the most compelling part for me. I won't say I'm tired of all superheroic action, but I think I've seen every variation of CG characters fighting with CG powers I need to see, while there's probably still some variations on the life drama of being a person with superpowers that haven't been done to death for me yet.

That said there's media _about_ High School students and there's media _for_ High School students, and I have a much higher tolerance for the former than the latter.


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## pukunui (Mar 16, 2022)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Yep, it was announced Tuesday morning with a trailer and a poster and the official start date of June 8th. That also means for the first time we will have a Star Wars series, Obi-Wan with a start date of May 25, and a Marvel series going at the same time on Disney+. That will be two new episodes on Wednesdays during most of June.



Interesting. So much for the original plan of "one show after another with no gaps or overlaps". Also interesting that they'll both be coming out on the same day. (Not that I'm complaining, mind you.)


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## Paul Farquhar (Mar 16, 2022)

Hex08 said:


> I'll watch it because I am an uber-comic geek and happily give it a chance to surprise me, but this is the first MCU outing that I have no real interest in. Nothing against the show but it just looks like it's targeting an audience younger than a 53-year-old dude.



Speaking as another 53 year old dude, I feel like that about Moon Knight. I'm too old to have met the character in comics or cartoons and so have no affection for it. Ms. Marvel is also a new character to me, but at least its not trying to be dark and edgy, which is so 90s.


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Mar 16, 2022)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Speaking as another 53 year old dude, I feel like that about Moon Knight. I'm too old to have met the character in comics or cartoons and so have no affection for it. Ms. Marvel is also a new character to me, but at least its not trying to be dark and edgy, which is so 90s.




Moon Knight debuted in 1975.


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## Paul Farquhar (Mar 16, 2022)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Moon Knight debuted in 1975.



According to Wiki it was 1990. I certainly never came across the character when I was comic-reading age.


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## Staffan (Mar 16, 2022)

JEB said:


> Hmm. Dunno what I think about the change to her powers. Guess it works better on a TV screen than stretching and shapeshifting, though.



They seem to be giving her Quasar's armbands instead of making her an inhuman. And that's something I can respect, because the Inhumans TV series was *dreadful*, and now Marvel has the movie rights to X-Men back and no longer need to try to make Inhumans happen. And I say that as someone who is generally easy to please with superhero stuff.

Plus, as was pointed out, while Kamala Khan is a great character, she's not exactly in the same power league as Carol Danvers or Monica Rambeau, so if they're going to be in the same movie she could use a power-up.


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## Thourne (Mar 16, 2022)

Paul Farquhar said:


> According to Wiki it was 1990. I certainly never came across the character when I was comic-reading age.



It's entirely possible the wiki you looked at was for a particular run of the comics.
He originated in the 70s in Werewolf by Night #32 .


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## Rabulias (Mar 16, 2022)

Staffan said:


> They seem to be giving her Quasar's armbands instead of making her an inhuman.



I wonder if the armbands are related to Shang-Chi's rings?


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## Rabulias (Mar 16, 2022)

Thourne said:


> It's entirely possible the wiki you looked at was for a particular run of the comics.
> He originated in the 70s in Werewolf by Night #32 .



Yeah, and I remember he got his own comic in 1980.


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## embee (Mar 16, 2022)

Hex08 said:


> I'll watch it because I am an uber-comic geek and happily give it a chance to surprise me, but this is the first MCU outing that I have no real interest in. Nothing against the show but it just looks like it's targeting an audience younger than a 53-year-old dude.



Yeah. It's really annoying when Marvel tries to engage audiences that aren't always placed front and center in every single other movie. 

A girl superhero? Ugh...

And she's a POC? Like I would ever care about that.

And she's Muslim too?! 

Great... they're probably going to shove the whole "Muslim people are people and shouldn't all be thought of as terrorists building bombs in caves" thing down our throats. 

HARD PASS!! 

As a 47 year-old dude, I only want to see heroes that are amiable middle-aged dudes like me. Superman, Batman, Iron Man, Bruce Banner. I'll even give Spidey a chance because they're all played by guys in their 30s.


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## Morrus (Mar 16, 2022)

embee said:


> Yeah. It's really annoying when Marvel tries to engage audiences that aren't always placed front and center in every single other movie.
> 
> A girl superhero? Ugh...
> 
> ...



OK, this aggressive sarcasm--and the accusations of misogyny and racism--are not warranted or fair. The guy just said he wasn't interested in a film, that's all. Cool it, please.


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## Mallus (Mar 16, 2022)

This looks great. The trailer has a candy-colored slightly Edgar Wright directing Scott Pilgrim kinda vibe. Plus, it's set in my semi-beloved homeland, North Jersey.

Question: her powers are obviously different from the comic & the word 'cosmic' cropped up. Is this version of Ms. Marvel channeling the Power Cosmic, ie are they setting up Galactus?


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## Staffan (Mar 16, 2022)

Mallus said:


> This looks great. The trailer has a candy-colored slightly Edgar Wright directing Scott Pilgrim kinda vibe. Plus, it's set in my semi-beloved homeland, North Jersey.
> 
> Question: her powers are obviously different from the comic & the word 'cosmic' cropped up. Is this version of Ms. Marvel channeling the Power Cosmic, ie are they setting up Galactus?



The power being connected to armbands, the cosmic stuff, and the fact that it seems to express itself as creating energy constructs points toward them mixing the person Kamala Khan with the Quantum Bands used by Quasar.

(At least based on a few seconds of trailer footage, which of course can be me jumping to conclusions.)


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## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 16, 2022)

That's what I figured as well. Though really, there are so many stretchy supers out there. Marvel comics alone has at least a dozen. But Mr. Fantastic is probably their signature stretcher, so I get tweaking her powers for television, since that's a much smaller field of superheroes than the comics.



Thourne said:


> Likely, some avoiding stepping on the inevitable Mr Richards arrival by mirroring his abilities as well.




I'm pretty excited about her coming TV show. The comics are great, and I enjoyed her parts in The Avengers videogame. The importance of representation with her character matters a whole lot, too.


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## darkwillow (Mar 16, 2022)

embee said:


> Yeah. It's really annoying when Marvel tries to engage audiences that aren't always placed front and center in every single other movie.



At least you provide a great example of everything wrong with politicizing tv/movies today.   Just because you didn't like a movie or tv show, doesn't automatically mean you are racist.

I have little interest in watching the show, its not for my demographic, but am pleased and proud that marvel is making content for Everyone, especially with Disneys history in Florida.

But damn your kind of comments and attitude really make us liberal swing voters consider voting republican just to teach you a lesson of humility.


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## qstor (Mar 16, 2022)

Looks good!


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## MarkB (Mar 16, 2022)

I'm wondering to what extent the character being always lost in daydreams may tie into her powers. Like, will she have shades of Green Lantern style "your powers are as strong as you imagine them to be" abilities, or will they be a fixed power set?


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## Morrus (Mar 16, 2022)

darkwillow said:


> At least you provide a great example of everything wrong with politicizing tv/movies today.   Just because you didn't like a movie or tv show, doesn't automatically mean you are racist.
> 
> I have little interest in watching the show, its not for my demographic, but am pleased and proud that marvel is making content for Everyone, especially with Disneys history in Florida.
> 
> But damn your kind of comments and attitude really make us liberal swing voters consider voting republican just to teach you a lesson of humility.



Keep the politics out of it, please.


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## Paul Farquhar (Mar 16, 2022)

MarkB said:


> I'm wondering to what extent the character being always lost in daydreams may tie into her powers. Like, will she have shades of Green Lantern style "your powers are as strong as you imagine them to be" abilities, or will they be a fixed power set?



It certainly looks like it helps to be creative with those powers, we see air steps and a shield as well as the signature big fists.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 16, 2022)

Staffan said:


> The power being connected to armbands, the cosmic stuff, and the fact that it seems to express itself as creating energy constructs points toward them mixing the person Kamala Khan with the Quantum Bands used by Quasar.
> 
> (At least based on a few seconds of trailer footage, which of course can be me jumping to conclusions.)




That seems at least a reasonable guess.  What little I saw certainly had a kind of Green Lantern vibe, and the Quantum Bands sometimes leaned in that direction.


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## Cadence (Mar 17, 2022)

My 12.5 yo (who misses on the other obvious demographics besides being young) thought the trailer was spectacular.

I'm sure hoping the three of us watch it as a family


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## pukunui (Mar 17, 2022)

Cadence said:


> My 12.5 yo (who misses on the other obvious demographics besides being young) thought the trailer was spectacular.
> 
> I'm sure hoping the three of us watch it as a family



My teenagers (13 and 16) both liked the look of it. I expect my 10 yo will want to watch it too.


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## Hex08 (Mar 17, 2022)

embee said:


> Yeah. It's really annoying when Marvel tries to engage audiences that aren't always placed front and center in every single other movie.
> 
> A girl superhero? Ugh...
> 
> ...



Woah, I am pretty sure I said none of the things you seem to be accusing me of, you may want to go back and reread my post. I specifically said I was willing to give it a chance and that I am hoping to be surprised by it, just that I didn't feel like I was the target audience for the show. I didn't once say anything about the character's gender or religious beliefs or that I was going to hard pass on it nor did I imply any of that.


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## Hex08 (Mar 17, 2022)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> So that means you don't like any of the Spider-Man films either? Set in high school, after all. Or is it because they actually chose an actress who is close to her character's age, rather then being 8-12 years older than the character?



Nope, I loved of the Spider-Man films and your assumptions are way off base and not justified by my post. I can't believe this is becoming a thing. The film style, at least based on the trailer, is done in a style much different than any prior MCU movies/TV shows and, from my perspective, that style seems to be geared towards a young audience. The Spider-Man movies are straight forward superhero flicks following the tried-and-true MCU method (which is honestly becoming stale). Ms. Marvel is obviously done with a different aesthetic and good for it. Just because something doesn't appeal to me doesn't mean it's bad nor did I say I was. I hope the show finds an audience and that they love it as much as I loved Iron Man, The Winter Soldier, Captain Marvel and Hawkeye.

Did you catch the part of my post where I said I would give it a chance?


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## Hex08 (Mar 17, 2022)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Speaking as another 53 year old dude, I feel like that about Moon Knight. I'm too old to have met the character in comics or cartoons and so have no affection for it. Ms. Marvel is also a new character to me, but at least its not trying to be dark and edgy, which is so 90s.



Cool, more power to you. Watch what you enjoy, no big deal. I'm a huge Moon Knight fan and am looking forward to the show. She-Hulk too for that matter. 

FYI, I was getting issues of Moon Knight in the mail via a Marvel subscription in the early 80's so he has been around a bit longer than you claim. He did have a resurgence in popularity in the 90's when Stephen Platt was drawing him although I wasn't reading the book then.

Check here: Wiki


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## trappedslider (Mar 17, 2022)

Mallus said:


> Plus, it's set in my semi-beloved homeland, North Jersey.



I'm sorry to hear that 

I'll watch it because I'm a sucker for marvel


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## GreyLord (Mar 17, 2022)

I was annoyed at how much they were pushing here in video games, but BECAUSE of the video game push, it made me familiar with her (and if the games are right, with her story as well, though it was covered more in Avengers than X-men and others).  She's not a bad hero in them, just too much of a major fan of other superheroes and then becomes one...

It did it's job though.  I'm familiar with the superheroine now, and I'm inclined to be interested in something that actually portrays her story in an interesting way.

The trailer does a good job.  I haven't been interested in a ton of the new Disney shows, but this one actually looks interesting to me.


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Mar 18, 2022)

I know some people here are not sure about this show, but just remember that after this, Ms Marvel will be a bigger part of the MCU, costarring in the next Captain Marvel movie, and who knows what else besides that. So better to watch this and get used to her now.


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## Ixal (Mar 18, 2022)

I wondered at first why they would replace Brie Larson before realizing that its not Captain Marvel but Ms Marvel. That is one too many Marvel (Luckily we don't also have a DC Marvel).
And the change in powers certainly didn't help. 

As for watching it, I ended my superhero cinema experience with Endgame (partially because of Covid) and don't see a reason yet to hop on again. Endgame was imo a perfect finish for a long story arc.


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## Staffan (Mar 18, 2022)

Ixal said:


> I wondered at first why they would replace Brie Larson before realizing that its not Captain Marvel but Ms Marvel. That is one too many Marvel (Luckily we don't also have a DC Marvel).
> And the change in powers certainly didn't help.



In the comics, Carol Danvers started as Ms Marvel when she got her DNA scrambled with some of Captain Marvel's. After some time, she was ambushed by Rogue, who was at the time part of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, which resulted in her powers and memories being drained permanently. Xavier managed to rebuild most of her memories but they were more like the memories of someone else to her, with no emotional context. She hung out with the X-Men for a while and got dragged into their Brood Saga space adventure, where the Brood (basically, Alien knockoffs) experimented on her and noted that she still had potential for powers, and reawakened her abilities at a much higher level than before – in addition to being a typical brick, she could now also control and emit immensely powerful energy, and took the name Binary.

After hanging out with the Starjammers for a while, her powers mostly receded back to her Ms Marvel levels, and she rejoined the Avengers and changes her code name to Warbird. Then, in the House of M alternate reality crossover, she was Captain Marvel in her own right, and was considered that reality's "greatest hero". Some time later, she decided to switch to Captain Marvel in the 616 as well.

That's a whole lot of backstory, and a bit too complex for one movie, so in the movies she went straight to the Captain Marvel name.

Kamala Khan, on the other hand, started out as a fangirl of Danvers', and when she got her own powers she modeled her suit off the original Ms Marvel's (although significantly more modest).


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 18, 2022)

Staffan said:


> In the comics, Carol Danvers started as Ms Marvel when she got her DNA scrambled with some of Captain Marvel's. After some time, she was ambushed by Rogue, who was at the time part of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, which resulted in her powers and memories being drained permanently. Xavier managed to rebuild most of her memories but they were more like the memories of someone else to her, with no emotional context. She hung out with the X-Men for a while and got dragged into their Brood Saga space adventure, where the Brood (basically, Alien knockoffs) experimented on her and noted that she still had potential for powers, and reawakened her abilities at a much higher level than before – in addition to being a typical brick, she could now also control and emit immensely powerful energy, and took the name Binary.
> 
> After hanging out with the Starjammers for a while, her powers mostly receded back to her Ms Marvel levels, and she rejoined the Avengers and changes her code name to Warbird. Then, in the House of M alternate reality crossover, she was Captain Marvel in her own right, and was considered that reality's "greatest hero". Some time later, she decided to switch to Captain Marvel in the 616 as well.
> 
> That's a whole lot of backstory, and a bit too complex for one movie, so in the movies she went straight to the Captain Marvel name.




Honestly, its one of those overly-baroque character development lines that wouldn't even work in multiple movies.  Usually something like that is the sign of multiple writers and editors pulling a character around in different directions, though I think a big part of that was just Chris Claremont's fault.


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## Cadence (Mar 18, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Honestly, its one of those overly-baroque character development lines that wouldn't even work in multiple movies.  Usually something like that is the sign of multiple writers and editors pulling a character around in different directions, though I think a big part of that was just Chris Claremont's fault.



The late night emergency rewrite (apparently) that led to Avengers 200 kind of set things in motion for Claremont and Avengers Annual 10...


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## le Redoutable (Mar 18, 2022)

As I remember, Chris Claremont had projects for Wolverine's Origins ...


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## Staffan (Mar 19, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Honestly, its one of those overly-baroque character development lines that wouldn't even work in multiple movies.  Usually something like that is the sign of multiple writers and editors pulling a character around in different directions, though I think a big part of that was just Chris Claremont's fault.



A lot of that was Claremont, but I think that was an effort to "reset" Carol after some more dubious plotlines that happened before she got attacked by Rogue. I didn't include that because it wasn't directly relevant to the name stuff.

But honestly, a big part of it is just that she's been around since what, the early 70s? That's like 50 years of character development, so there's going to be a lot of it. But it's only relatively recently that she's become an A-lister – post House of M, really.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 19, 2022)

Staffan said:


> A lot of that was Claremont, but I think that was an effort to "reset" Carol after some more dubious plotlines that happened before she got attacked by Rogue. I didn't include that because it wasn't directly relevant to the name stuff.
> 
> But honestly, a big part of it is just that she's been around since what, the early 70s? That's like 50 years of character development, so there's going to be a lot of it. But it's only relatively recently that she's become an A-lister – post House of M, really.




Yeah, but even at Marvel you didn't routinely see characters jerked around that much over that much time back then (now--from things I've heard--might be a different story).  Carol got particularly erratically and mis-handled.


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## Cadence (Mar 19, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Yeah, but even at Marvel you didn't routinely see characters jerked around that much over that much time back then (now--from things I've heard--might be a different story).  Carol got particularly erratically and mis-handled.



It was the Avengers thing for a while, Hank Pym and the Maximoff's both had issues around then.  Later the Vision and Wondeman.


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## billd91 (Mar 19, 2022)

Cadence said:


> The late night emergency rewrite (apparently) that led to Avengers 200 kind of set things in motion for Claremont and Avengers Annual 10...



Yeah, Claremont delivered a much needed smack down with that Annual.


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## Staffan (Mar 19, 2022)

Cadence said:


> It was the Avengers thing for a while, Hank Pym and the Maximoff's both had issues around then.  Later the Vision and Wondeman.



One of the advantages of a team book is that you're more free to jerk around individual characters, while the team as a whole goes on.

X-Men didn't have quite as much* of that sort of stuff, perhaps because it always (or at least since Claremont took over) had a pretty strong soap opera thing going. And probably because the X-Men always had pretty big external pressures. But generally speaking, if an X-Man goes bad, it's probably because of mind control or something of that sort.

* Which does not mean "none" – Dark Phoenix is a pretty big face-heel-turn...


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## Maxperson (Mar 19, 2022)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> So that means you don't like any of the Spider-Man films either? Set in high school, after all. Or is it because they actually chose an actress who is close to her character's age, rather then being 8-12 years older than the character?



Maybe it's not your false dichotomy, but rather because the tone of the preview was very teenage Disney show.


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## MGibster (Mar 19, 2022)

Paul Farquhar said:


> According to Wiki it was 1990. I certainly never came across the character when I was comic-reading age.



Moon Knight first appeared in the series _Werewolf by Night _in 1975.  According to Wiki, his first solo series was in 1980.  I remember having stats for Moon Knight in TSR's Marvel superheroes game in the 80s.  Though, honestly, I can't remember ever reading a Moon Knight comic in the 80s though he appeared in some other books I read.


Enevhar Aldarion said:


> So that means you don't like any of the Spider-Man films either? Set in high school, after all. Or is it because they actually chose an actress who is close to her character's age, rather then being 8-12 years older than the character?



It looks to me like Ms Marvel is aimed at a younger audience which isn't a bad thing.  I think it looks pretty good too, but I don't think it's going to be a show for me.  Which, again, is fine.  I think it's great their producing a good superhero show for younger viewers.  But I'm one of those weirdos who can be happy when I see others enjoying something I'm not into.  But I'm going to watch a few episodes at some point I'm sure.  Without exception, the Marvel shows have been top notch.


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## Hex08 (Mar 19, 2022)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> I know some people here are not sure about this show, but just remember that after this, Ms Marvel will be a bigger part of the MCU, costarring in the next Captain Marvel movie, and who knows what else besides that. So better to watch this and get used to her now.



Seeing her in The Marvels is where I am most excited to see Ms. Marvel. Captain Marvel is a longtime favorite of mine from the comics, so I always look forward to her appearances and I really like Brie Larson in the role. I am also curious, after seeing Monica Rambeau in WandaVision, where they take her character.


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## Hex08 (Mar 19, 2022)

Cadence said:


> The late night emergency rewrite (apparently) that led to Avengers 200 kind of set things in motion for Claremont and Avengers Annual 10...



I read Avengers 200 when it originally came out and since I was just a kid I didn't see any of the problems with the story that my adult-self now finds painfully obvious. Thankfully, Claremont did his best to address it in his Avengers annual. However, the George Perez art in Avengers 200 is still awesome.


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## Maxperson (Mar 19, 2022)

MGibster said:


> Moon Knight first appeared in the series _Werewolf by Night _in 1975.  According to Wiki, his first solo series was in 1980.  I remember having stats for Moon Knight in TSR's Marvel superheroes game in the 80s.  Though, honestly, I can't remember ever reading a Moon Knight comic in the 80s though he appeared in some other books I read.



He was my friend's favorite hero in the 80's and he had his own comic from 1980 to I want to say the mid to late 80's.  Hard to remember after all this time.


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## Tonguez (Mar 20, 2022)

Thourne said:


> Likely, some avoiding stepping on the inevitable Mr Richards arrival by mirroring his abilities as well.



Yeah I understand why they changed it - undercutting Reed Richards schtik, better link with the “Captain Marvel set” and stretching looks kinda dumb on screen. But it does seem that with the energy constructs they have inadvertently undercut Sue Richards since I recall her doing the air walk trick with her ‘invisible force fields’ too  
Then of course the Green Lantern parralels (sux to you WBDC)

it looks to be aimed at the younger Nickolodean demographic, which is cool - I love the MCU for its abity to adapt different genre to the Supers trope (that seems backwards). I’ll give it a watch, they might surprise us


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## Hex08 (Mar 20, 2022)

Tonguez said:


> Then of course the Green Lantern parralels (sux to you WBDC)



I'm thinking since it's a Marvel character, especially since there are arm bands reminiscent of his Quantum Bands, that comparisons to Quasar are more appropriate than Green Lantern.


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## Tonguez (Mar 20, 2022)

Hex08 said:


> I'm thinking since it's a Marvel character, especially since there are arm bands reminiscent of his Quantum Bands, that comparisons to Quasar are more appropriate than Green Lantern.



Yeah maybe, but Quasar is really obscure and has never been referenced in the MCU - we havent even got Nova, despite the Nova Corps being a thing, so I dont think Quasars on the radar. If they have made Kamala the Quasar proxy then I’d be sad…

My first thought regarding the bands was that Shang-Chi‘s ring were already turned into bands, so these bracelets would fit that model too (Scorcerers have been shown with energy bands around their wrists too, so it seems to have become an MCU motif)


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## Umbran (Mar 20, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Usually something like that is the sign of multiple writers and editors pulling a character around in different directions...




It is the sign of a character that's been around since 1977.  A four decade history will sound complicated when you cram it into a paragraph.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

Umbran said:


> It is the sign of a character that's been around since 1977.  A four decade history will sound complicated when you cram it into a paragraph.



Usually during that period characters didn't go through quite that many backflips, though (in the last decade or so, this appears to be less true).


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## Umbran (Mar 21, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Usually during that period characters didn't go through quite that many backflips, though (in the last decade or so, this appears to be less true).




I... totally disagree.  Comics have always been a freakin' soap opera.


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## ART! (Mar 21, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Usually during that period characters didn't go through quite that many backflips, though (in the last decade or so, this appears to be less true).



I think you're right. It's the lesser characters who suffer this the most; because they have less presence in the public eye and less prominence on (in this case) Marvel's roster, creators continue to mess with different approaches to the character. 

With Moon Knight, a big factor that feeds this is the supernatural part of his background. On top of that, he has some kind of disassociative identity disorder. Given all of that, it's not surprising he's been through more interpretations than a lot of other characters.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

Umbran said:


> I... totally disagree.  Comics have always been a freakin' soap opera.




Its not the soap opera I'm talking about.  As you say, that's often been true.  But a major character going through that much "lose power, gain new powers, cut back the new powers" tango for an extended period was _not_ typical of the time.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

ART! said:


> I think you're right. It's the lesser characters who suffer this the most; because they have less presence in the public eye and less prominence on (in this case) Marvel's roster, creators continue to mess with different approaches to the character.




I'm not sure even team book members tended to go through that many cycles of change during the period.  At least no others come to mind.  You had the case of Captain America doing some identity changes, but barring the presence or lack of the shield, he didn't change abilities much.  Iron Man changed power sets somewhat, but it was almost always an upward trend, and part of his gig was "the guy who makes his own powers and is always working on them."  The next closest I can think of (and its probably not a surprise this is a big part of where Carol's swings went) were a couple people in the X-books.



ART! said:


> With Moon Knight, a big factor that feeds this is the supernatural part of his background. On top of that, he has some kind of disassociative identity disorder. Given all of that, it's not surprising he's been through more interpretations than a lot of other characters.




Moon Knight was always at the periphery of my reading experience, so I don't feel qualified to comment.


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## billd91 (Mar 21, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Its not the soap opera I'm talking about.  As you say, that's often been true.  But a major character going through that much "lose power, gain new powers, cut back the new powers" tango for an extended period was _not_ typical of the time.



I think the Fantastic Four, particularly Mr. Fantastic and the Thing, might have something to say about that. So might Banshee, Storm, and Ant-Man, (or Giant Man, or Yellowjacket)?


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

billd91 said:


> I think the Fantastic Four, particularly Mr. Fantastic and the Thing, might have something to say about that. So might Banshee, Storm, and Ant-Man, (or Giant Man, or Yellowjacket)?




I don't recall either Reed or Ben changing powersets much during the period I'm talking about (unless you're talking about the incessant "We've cured Ben!  No we haven't!" cycle).  Hank Pym never so much changed his power sets as went through periods of emphasizing different parts of it, and some machinations to explain why (though Yellowjacket was the only version that did the Wasp wing thing); he had both shrinking and growth pretty early, and they just decided to either limit him to one or the other for some periods (and of course with the growth how big exactly he could do) for various reasons, but he was still within the same broad power set from day one, and he never lost access to them completely except when he sat out doing it for a while (and then he could have gone back to one or the other at any time he felt like it).

The X-book characters I'll give you, as I note above; it wouldn't be the first time that substream of Marvel worked on quite different general habits than the rest of the Marvel Universe.


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## Umbran (Mar 21, 2022)

billd91 said:


> I think the Fantastic Four, particularly Mr. Fantastic and the Thing, might have something to say about that. So might Banshee, Storm, and Ant-Man, (or Giant Man, or Yellowjacket)?




Beast can be added to that list.

And Jean Grey/Phoenix/Madelyn Prior/Goblin Queen.  I mean, really.

And, shall we talk about the Grey Hulk/Green Hulk/Joe Fixit/Red Hulk/Gravage Hulk/Professor Hulk/Immortal Hulk?


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## billd91 (Mar 21, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> I don't recall either Reed or Ben changing powersets much during the period I'm talking about (unless you're talking about the incessant "We've cured Ben!  No we haven't!" cycle).



It was less that they changed powers as much as lost them for substantial periods of time or had times when they were unreliable. In the mid-70s, Ben got his powers from a worn exoskeleton and Reed lost his powers for over a year's worth of issues.


Thomas Shey said:


> Hank Pym never so much changed his power sets as went through periods of emphasizing different parts of it, and some machinations to explain why (though Yellowjacket was the only version that did the Wasp wing thing); he had both shrinking and growth pretty early, and they just decided to either limit him to one or the other for some periods (and of course with the growth how big exactly he could do) for various reasons, but he was still within the same broad power set from day one, and he never lost access to them completely except when he sat out doing it for a while (and then he could have gone back to one or the other at any time he felt like it).



Oh, yes he did, albeit at an earlier time frame than Ms. Marvel's trouble in the 80s. He did have his growth powers curtailed, then he left them because of his health (and so Hawkeye became Goliath for a significant stretch of time), and in the 80s he shifted from shrinking/growing himself to doing it to other objects and being more of a gadgeteer. 

The point is - there are times when a number of  characters have gone through changes/power loss and regain/identity changes. It's nothing new. It may well be that Carol Danvers has gone through it more than some, but she's really not that big an outlier.


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## Staffan (Mar 21, 2022)

Umbran said:


> Beast can be added to that list.



Beast has mostly changed *appearance*, but his powers have been fairly constant: agility, prehensile feet, low-level super-strength, animal traits (claws, scent).


Umbran said:


> And Jean Grey/Phoenix/Madelyn Prior/Goblin Queen.  I mean, really.



Jean's power set has been fairly constant as well: telekinesis and telepathy. Originally she only had telekinesis, but it didn't take long for the telepathy to re-develop. Same thing once she came back from the Phoenix retcon: only TK for a while, but that didn't last. She has fluctuated a lot in power level, particularly depending on how chummy she is with the Phoenix Force, but the powers themselves have been fairly constant.

Now, if you want X-Men with complicated relationships with their powers, there's always Betsy Braddock...


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## Umbran (Mar 21, 2022)

Staffan said:


> Beast has mostly changed *appearance*, but his powers have been fairly constant: agility, prehensile feet, low-level super-strength, animal traits (claws, scent).
> 
> Jean's power set has been fairly constant as well: telekinesis and telepathy. Originally she only had telekinesis, but it didn't take long for the telepathy to re-develop. Same thing once she came back from the Phoenix retcon: only TK for a while, but that didn't last. She has fluctuated a lot in power level, particularly depending on how chummy she is with the Phoenix Force, but the powers themselves have been fairly constant.
> 
> Now, if you want X-Men with complicated relationships with their powers, there's always Betsy Braddock...




Carol Danvers in the comics started with :  superhuman strength, endurance, stamina, physical durability, a limited precognitive "seventh sense" and flight.

As Binary, she had all those things (from a different source), and energy absorption and massive energy projection powers.

Currently, her powers are roughly the same, but she can only maintain the massive scale she had as Binary for short periods with an infusion from some energy source.

Which seems pretty much the same quality of changes as seen with Jean Grey.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

Umbran said:


> Beast can be added to that list.
> 
> And Jean Grey/Phoenix/Madelyn Prior/Goblin Queen.  I mean, really.
> 
> And, shall we talk about the Grey Hulk/Green Hulk/Joe Fixit/Red Hulk/Gravage Hulk/Professor Hulk/Immortal Hulk?




Notice the time frame I've been talking about.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

billd91 said:


> It was less that they changed powers as much as lost them for substantial periods of time or had times when they were unreliable. In the mid-70s, Ben got his powers from a worn exoskeleton and Reed lost his powers for over a year's worth of issues.




Really?  I don't remember any of that, and that was in kind of the start of my peak Marvel reading.



billd91 said:


> Oh, yes he did, albeit at an earlier time frame than Ms. Marvel's trouble in the 80s. He did have his growth powers curtailed, then he left them because of his health (and so Hawkeye became Goliath for a significant stretch of time), and in the 80s he shifted from shrinking/growing himself to doing it to other objects and being more of a gadgeteer.




That latter seems a lot different than "exterior forces take your powers from you to me" (the health thing is closer, but there wasn't anything stopping him from doing his shrinking thing still during that period).



billd91 said:


> The point is - there are times when a number of  characters have gone through changes/power loss and regain/identity changes. It's nothing new. It may well be that Carol Danvers has gone through it more than some, but she's really not that big an outlier.




Still seems to me outside the mutant books she was at the time.


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## Umbran (Mar 21, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Notice the time frame I've been talking about.




I don't know what you mean by that.  All the characters I'm talking about have 40+ year histories, and the changes I'm talking about are spread across that entire timeline - rather like Carol Danvers.  You have suggested that the past decade has been different, but my examples go farther back than that.

Ultimately, think what you want.  I don't think the history really supports you, but... big fat hairy deal.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

Staffan said:


> Beast has mostly changed *appearance*, but his powers have been fairly constant: agility, prehensile feet, low-level super-strength, animal traits (claws, scent).




Depends how far you go back; pre-blue Beast had a signficantly less well developed power set. 

But again, the mutant books are the area I will accept you've had that sort of thing almost from day one.


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## Staffan (Mar 21, 2022)

Umbran said:


> Carol Danvers in the comics started with :  superhuman strength, endurance, stamina, physical durability, a limited precognitive "seventh sense" and flight.
> 
> As Binary, she had all those things (from a different source), and energy absorption and massive energy projection powers.
> 
> ...



Good point. I was mixing the personality/plot twists up with the power changes, and Jean's probably even with Carol there too.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 21, 2022)

Umbran said:


> I don't know what you mean by that.  All the characters I'm talking about have 40+ year histories, and the changes I'm talking about are spread across that entire timeline - rather like Carol Danvers.  You have suggested that the past decade has been different, but my examples go farther back than that.




Note the phrase was "past decade _or so_". That's about the point I stopped reading, and I'll note none of the Hulk plotlines but one had happened by that period.



Umbran said:


> Ultimately, think what you want.  I don't think the history really supports you, but... big fat hairy deal.




I think it supports me pretty well before about 2000, but as you will.


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## Umbran (Mar 22, 2022)

Thomas Shey said:


> Note the phrase was "past decade _or so_". That's about the point I stopped reading, and I'll note none of the Hulk plotlines but one had happened by that period.




I have no freaking clue what you are talking about at this point.  I was establishing the fact that Marvel characters have been yanked around for 40+ years, that this is nothing new, nor anywhere specific to Captain Marvel.  

I have no idea what "the past decade or so" has to do with that.


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## Thomas Shey (Mar 22, 2022)

Umbran said:


> I have no freaking clue what you are talking about at this point.  I was establishing the fact that Marvel characters have been yanked around for 40+ years, that this is nothing new, nor anywhere specific to Captain Marvel.
> 
> I have no idea what "the past decade or so" has to do with that.




I guess at this point I'm simply disagreeing that what happened to Carol was typical for what was done before 20 years ago.   If people think otherwise, that's as it is, but referencing things that took place more recently than that has nothing much to do with _my_ point.


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## Ryujin (Mar 22, 2022)

Well, in DC, Superman went from a high jumping, tough, and strong guy to virtually invulnerable and with only two real weaknesses of any import (magic and Kryptonite), to a less invulnerable and sun-powered character over the years. In Marvel anything that got near Apocalypse got a big tweak. Warren Worthington, to Angel, to Death, to Archangel...


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## Older Beholder (Jun 9, 2022)

First episode was a lot of fun. 
I really like the superfan element and the playful visuals / directing.


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## Mallus (Jun 9, 2022)

From the trailers I got an almost Scott Pilgrim movie vibe, but the first episode was much more Muslim Lin-Manuel Miranda directing a superhero joint.

That’s the highest praise I can deliver. Absolutely delightful.


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## trappedslider (Jun 9, 2022)

Mallus said:


> From the trailers I got an almost Scott Pilgrim movie vibe,



Guess what movie she's watching at one point lol


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## Rabulias (Jun 9, 2022)

FYI, there is a thread for the show itself now: Ms Marvel (spoilers)


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