# LOST - Wednesday 11/9/05 {Spoilers for this ep and previous eps ONLY!}



## fett527 (Nov 9, 2005)

> Next Episode:
> Wednesday, Nov.9, 9/8c
> "Abandoned"
> Sawyer's wound becomes life-threatening as he, Michael and Jin make their way through the interior of the island with the tail section survivors. Meanwhile, Shannon is once again haunted by visions of Walt, and Charlie becomes jealous of Locke's interest in Claire.




It's back tonight! Wooooooooooooooooooot!!!!!!!!!!


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Nov 9, 2005)

OH yeah!!!


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## fett527 (Nov 9, 2005)

huh.  Looking at some LOST info and here's a tidbit I don't think I'd noticed before.  Nothing earth shattering, just interesting.



> Unnamed woman, a beautiful woman who is on a date with Sawyer who also later appears as the announcer of Hurley's winning lottery numbers. It has not yet been established if these are in fact the same character, but they are played by the same actress; given the creators' attention to details, many fans speculate that this constitutes some connection between the two characters. Appeared in Outlaws and Numbers. Played by: Brittany Perrineau


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 9, 2005)

Ready for it!


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## KaosDevice (Nov 9, 2005)

I'm completely ready. Got my recording tape set, the stuff to make chili dogs are a go (for some reason I've gotten into the habit of eating chili dogs if it is a new Lost episode.) and comfy chair ready!


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## Crothian (Nov 9, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> I'm completely ready. Got my recording tape set, the stuff to make chili dogs are a go (for some reason I've gotten into the habit of eating chili dogs if it is a new Lost episode.) and comfy chair ready!




I perfer wild boar and freshly caught fish


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## fett527 (Nov 9, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I perfer wild boar and freshly caught fish



with peanut butter.


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## Fast Learner (Nov 9, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> "Played by: Brittany Perrineau"



Related, perhaps, to Harold Perrineau, who plays Michael.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Nov 9, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Related, perhaps, to Harold Perrineau, who plays Michael.



 His wife, actually.


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## KaosDevice (Nov 9, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> His wife, actually.




And they have the same last name? _Creepy...._


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

What is this bit about a "secret scene"  ?


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> What is this bit about a "secret scene"  ?



It was advertised to be on Good Morning America tomorrow morning.


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## Dagger75 (Nov 10, 2005)

Was that Jack walking past the doctors when they are in the hospital.


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> Was that Jack walking past the doctors when they are in the hospital.




Ya, that was Jack


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> It was advertised to be on Good Morning America tomorrow morning.




can someone tivo it for those of us who won't be able to watch it


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

I guess the ended wasn't supposed to be funny....but I laughed


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

OK, Maggie Grace was looking hot all disheveled and stuff.  
Everyone see Jack walk by in the hospital in the first flashback?  I assume everyone knows from previous episode discussions that Shannon's dad was killed in the collision with Jack's wife-to-be.
Episode was kinda slow, I was a little disappointed. I perked up when the whispering started and the ending was a good cliffhangar- does Sawyer bite it?  Is Shannon dead?

What does everyone think of telling the other survivors story?  I personally think it is a great idea!


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## Dubya (Nov 10, 2005)

*I knew it!*

Heh, I thought Shannon was going to be killed.  I just didn't think it would be Anna that killed her.  Sayid is going to mess her up.

Dubya


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I guess the ended wasn't supposed to be funny....but I laughed



why?  I thought it was well done.


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> why?  I thought it was well done.




The Others we are told are scarey.  The Other we are told are all this other stuff.  But in the end, it is a suppossed good guy that shots her.  

Hopefully next week we will see the Others to deserve the reputation they seem to have.


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## CrusaderX (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> The Others we are told are scarey.  The Other we are told are all this other stuff.  But in the end, it is a suppossed good guy that shots her.




Right.  Great twist!


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## Silver Moon (Nov 10, 2005)

The episode didn't do anything for either me or my wife, we both felt it didn't even come close to living up to the hype.   Plus Shannon has always been our least favorite character.


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Right.  Great twist!




well, I wouldn't call it great....


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## Dubya (Nov 10, 2005)

*We will*



			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> Hopefully next week we will see the Others to deserve the reputation they seem to have.





Next weeks Ep. is to focus on the tail end survivors and what the others did to them.  So Maybe we will get to see the others.  I want to see MC Gainey again.

Dubya


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## Dubya (Nov 10, 2005)

*Shannon*

I think Shannon was a lot of peoples least favorite character.  There didn't seem to be any reason to let her live, what with Boone dying.  Now her death should push the Sayid character forward.

Dubya


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> Next weeks Ep. is to focus on the tail end survivors and what the others did to them.  So Maybe we will get to see the others.  I want to see MC Gainey again.




The preivews did show us we will see what happened to the tail end people. I just hope the Others actually live up to the hype.


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## Fargoth (Nov 10, 2005)

Can anyone tell me what Walt told Shannon when he appeared to her? I couldn't make out a bloody thing!


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## Banshee16 (Nov 10, 2005)

I noticed  earlier on that Shannon and Sayyid were wandering around in grass that looked an awful lot like the tail survivors were standing in.  I was sure it was Sawyer who was a goner.  I figured Shannon was going to locate the others while looking for Walt.  Looks like she found them....unfortunate for her.

Of course, there's always the possibility that she's not actually dead, and this is just a cliffhanger, and they'll  turn around and have her be saved in two eps.  Kind of weird to finally have an episode giving info on her past, and have her die in the same episode.

Banshee


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

Fargoth said:
			
		

> Can anyone tell me what Walt told Shannon when he appeared to her? I couldn't make out a bloody thing!




that's on purpose.  Some people think he's talking backwards but I haven't heard anyone confirm that


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## ThirdWizard (Nov 10, 2005)

My current theory is that Walt is the living manifistation of the Island itself.


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## The Human Target (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> that's on purpose.  Some people think he's talking backwards but I haven't heard anyone confirm that




He is. The first time she sees him he says either "Don't push the button, the button is bad" or "Push the button, no button is bad."


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## The Human Target (Nov 10, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> My current theory is that Walt is the living manifistation of the Island itself.




Basically, as far as i've been able to logic, the island is infected with a nanotech virus that got off the island, infected the main cast, and then guided them all back there. Walt is either psychic, in a closer connection to his nanovirus and thus able to subconsciously control it, or a combination of both.


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## The Human Target (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> that's on purpose.  Some people think he's talking backwards but I haven't heard anyone confirm that




http://www.pureposse.com/files/lostclip1_berkasize.mp3


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## John Crichton (Nov 10, 2005)

Comments and *SPOILERS*!  Could someone please edit the thread title?

First - I hate previews that give this stuff away.  "This week, one of the survivors will be lost... forever."  Just call it a can't miss ep and leave it at that.  The show already gets ratings through the roof.  Anywho...

The ep was a little slow until the last 10 minutes or so, but that's okay as I've come to expect it now.  The formula for this season certainly seems to be an interesting character background focus sprinkled with clues, small revelations and some kind of mirrored situation on the island connected to the past.

A few things we learned this week:

- Confirmation:  Sharon wasn't just seeing things.  Others can see/hear Walt as well.
- Speculation:  The whispering could be just that and not a sign that anyone is going nuts/getting "sick."
- Mr. Echo is cool.  

I got the feeling after the ep wore off that Sharon's journey is complete and getting shot was a side effect of why she is on the island in the first place.  She got what she had been searching for: someone who trusted and believed in her.

Overall, I was pleased and entertained by the episode.  The formula (intersplicing character history with current drama on the island and explaination for actions) is getting a tad worn but luckily the writing and acting is still good so I'm okay with it for now.  I did like cutting the action together with the spookyness of the Walt/Sayid reveal and the whispering.  Sharron getting shot was a nice and predictable twist.  It was only a matter of time before one of the survivors got plugged.  The only ones who seem to actually know how to handle a gun are Kate, Sayid and maybe Sawyer.

The Charlie/Locke/Claire/Aaron subplot was interesting.  I got the impression that they were going to do something to connect children to the Others/island but it turns out that it was simply about Claire's concerns with Charlie as the psuedo-hubby and Locke finding out about Charlie's new stash.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 10, 2005)

And so I ask...what happen to Cindy?  

I still think the 'others' are living underground in a tunnel system, the whispering is their voice/movements, that is how they seem to disappear and not be seen, the only time they come above is to cross to another system of tunnels and forage.  

Get the impression that the 'others' had their way with the tail section group, not just taking them but rape and other things from Texas Chainsaw; and while Goodwin did not appear to be ate, have to wonder.


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## CrusaderX (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> well, I wouldn't call it great....




I would.  And did!    This show isn't about The Others.  It's about the survivors and their relationships with each other.  The producers have said this numerous times.   Having Anna-Lucia kill Shannon creates much more character conflict among the survivors than having an Other kill her. 

The Others aren't the heart of this story.  The survivors are.  If you're expecting the interactions with The Others to make or break this show, rather than the interactions among the survivors, you're going to be disappointed.


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## mmu1 (Nov 10, 2005)

It's going to be interesting to see how things work out with Anna when the two groups meet... She wasn't exactly making any friends even before she shot Shannon - and didn't seem to be thinking about the fact that she was headed for ~40 of the friends of the people she was pushing around and threatening. If she doesn't end up in deep $%@&, at least initially, I'll be pretty dissapointed.


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 10, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> And so I ask...what happen to Cindy?



I agree. She just dissapeared while 10 feet from the rest of the group. No noise, no nothing.
Just gone. That's the freaky part, how these Others just seem to be anywhere. Also did any one else notice that when they did a recap of past episodes in the begining. The scene when Eku and Jin are hiding and the Others walk by. They walk like the ghost in Gothica. Sort of like a stutter step, it's not a fluid motion.


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## JoeBlank (Nov 10, 2005)

Good episode. Not great, but good. I was just about to start liking Shannon by the end, and I expect they did that on purpose. 

John Crichton, your comments on her journey being complete make sense. I like your thinking.

I expect the next episode will consist of Anna explaining her actions, which leads to her groups experiences on the island to justify her being so jumpy.


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## Silver Moon (Nov 10, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> And so I ask...what happen to Cindy?



I saw Cindy's disappearance as being just a plot device to put Anna on edge...which is why she shot the first person she saw (who could have just as easily been Cindy).


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 10, 2005)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> I saw Cindy's disappearance as being just a plot device to put Anna on edge...which is why she shot the first person she saw (who could have just as easily been Cindy).



Then again, could have been a mole...


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## Mazlo (Nov 10, 2005)

I think that Cindy is an Other.  The other survivors didn't have the plane manifest so they couldn't take a census and discover who had infiltrated the camp (Remember Ethan in S1).  But why are the Others trying to infiltrate the survivor camps? Why are they attacking them?  Hmm.


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## RedShirtNo5 (Nov 10, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> "This week, one of the survivors will be lost... forever."



 Shannon could live, since Cindy might fulfil the promo.  But I agree it is more interesting for Shannon to die and Cindy to be an Other.

-RedShirtNo5


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## satori01 (Nov 10, 2005)

I did not catch any hpye leading up to this episode, so being unaware that someone was supposed to be capped, made the ending unexpected.

I personaly dislike Shannon too, but in some ways think it is a shame if they kill her off.  Lets face it in a circumstance like being stranded with a group of strangers, someone will have a personality that bugs the hell out of you.

Her background flashbacks made her more sympathetic, and more rounded.  Girl has issues, no doubt about that, but she was to put in in technical jargon "screwed royally" by her step mother.

Flashbacks also revealed Boone for what he has always been, a lapdog,  lackey, and follower.
Anyone else think next episode is going to start with Jack having to make a decision whom to save?  Very intresting if the whole
Carlyle/Rutherford family is so to speak "Voted off the Island".


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## shaylon (Nov 10, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> Was that Jack walking past the doctors when they are in the hospital.




From msnbc.com story

Though we saw Shannon was close to her father, the details of his death remain fuzzy, and now she's not around to clarify them. Astute viewers remember that Adam Rutherford was not only her dad but the man Jack let die so he could save his future fiancée, Sarah. Shannon's death leaves unanswered whether she knew Dr. Jack made that fateful choice.

Dun Dun DUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!

Later,
Shay


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## WizarDru (Nov 10, 2005)

Fargoth said:
			
		

> Can anyone tell me what Walt told Shannon when he appeared to her? I couldn't make out a bloody thing!




"They're coming... and they're close."


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Nov 10, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> From msnbc.com story
> 
> Though we saw Shannon was close to her father, the details of his death remain fuzzy, and now she's not around to clarify them. Astute viewers remember that Adam Rutherford was not only her dad but the man Jack let die so he could save his future fiancée, Sarah. Shannon's death leaves unanswered whether she knew Dr. Jack made that fateful choice.
> 
> ...




Damn how did I miss that?

Great episode.  I really liked seeing Boone again and Shannon's backstory.  Hopefully Sayed shoots Anna.  I disliked her character from the start and she hasn't made me like her any more since.


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> Damn how did I miss that?
> 
> Great episode.  I really liked seeing Boone again and Shannon's backstory.  Hopefully Sayed shoots Anna.  I disliked her character from the start and she hasn't made me like her any more since.



I'm not sure since we've talked about it at length in previous threads and I've already restated it in a post earlier in this thread.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I'm not sure since we've talked about it at length in previous threads and I've already restated it in a post earlier in this thread.



 I don't read the Lost threads too close.  And you guys knew that Shannon's father was the guy who died in that accident before this week?


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Comments and *SPOILERS*!  Could someone please edit the thread title?



This has been talked about and I always expect there to be spoilers when any episode thread is started.  What I'm afraid of is people talking about future episode spoilers if we lable as such.  I'll try to label it clearly.


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> I don't read the Lost threads too close.  And you guys knew that Shannon's father was the guy who died in that accident before this week?



Yes.  When he is brought in to the emergency room they say his name.  We know previous to that that Shannon's father died in a car wreck and we know her last name.  Plus some of us do research on other sites to confirm these things.


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

RedShirtNo5 said:
			
		

> Shannon could live, since Cindy might fulfil the promo.  But I agree it is more interesting for Shannon to die and Cindy to be an Other.
> 
> -RedShirtNo5



I agree.  Shannon= dead.  Cindy= Other.  I like it!


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Yes.  When he is brought in to the emergency room they say his name.  We know previous to that that Shannon's father died in a car wreck and we know her last name.  Plus some of us do research on other sites to confirm these things.



 Ah I didn't remember the last name.


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## LightPhoenix (Nov 10, 2005)

I'm actually VERY disappointed that Ana shot Shannon.  Not because Shannon is dead... while it would have been interesting to see Shannon and Michael discuss her visions, she always felt kind of meh IMO.  I'm disappointed because it was Ana that shot her.  It really strikes me as a ham-fisted way to create even more drama between Ana's group and the other survivors.  Personally I think it would have been better for Cindy to do the deed, revealing her an an Other, making Ana's group realize they've been played, and actually strengthen the bond between the two groups.  There could still be drama, because they could still be blamed for not realizing Cindy was evil.


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## Arnwyn (Nov 10, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Personally I think it would have been better for Cindy to do the deed, revealing her an an Other,



But we're still not entirely sure that that is the Other's modus operandi.

I'm not convinced that they kill "just because" - and certainly not in the context/situation you describe.


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I'm actually VERY disappointed that Ana shot Shannon.  Not because Shannon is dead... while it would have been interesting to see Shannon and Michael discuss her visions, she always felt kind of meh IMO.  I'm disappointed because it was Ana that shot her.  It really strikes me as a ham-fisted way to create even more drama between Ana's group and the other survivors.  Personally I think it would have been better for Cindy to do the deed, revealing her an an Other, making Ana's group realize they've been played, and actually strengthen the bond between the two groups.  There could still be drama, because they could still be blamed for not realizing Cindy was evil.




Just thought you might like to know there are rampant rumors that Ana did NOT shoot Shannon.  Many are trying to say the shot sounded an awful lot like a rifle, not a handgun.  Plus we didn't actually see it happen, and well this is LOST and unless you see it, you never know.

EDIT: also a theory that the wound is from a knife, not a gun.  Screenshot:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1539/screencapsofshannonsdeath2ib.jpg


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 10, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> But we're still not entirely sure that that is the Other's modus operandi.
> 
> I'm not convinced that they kill "just because" - and certainly not in the context/situation you describe.



We ready do not know they kill do we, they take, mostly kids (are the women seen as breeding stock?).  Goodwin was dead in the forest, "remember what happen to Goodwin" was what Anna said, we do not know if the others killed him, he killed himself, or Anna's group killed him, he could have gone deliverance on everyone.

Note to self: was not one of the Drama goals dealing with the mind.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Just thought you might like to know there are rampant rumors that Ana did NOT shoot Shannon.  Many are trying to say the shot sounded an awful lot like a rifle, not a handgun.  Plus we didn't actually see it happen, and well this is LOST and unless you see it, you never know.
> 
> EDIT: also a theory that the wound is from a knife, not a gun.  Screenshot:
> 
> http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1539/screencapsofshannonsdeath2ib.jpg




Now that is interesting...


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Now that is interesting...



Also specualtion on shots of the "actual" shooter being left-handed and every time we see Ana with a gun it's in her right hand.

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=830


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> I would.  And did!    This show isn't about The Others.  It's about the survivors and their relationships with each other.  The producers have said this numerous times.   Having Anna-Lucia kill Shannon creates much more character conflict among the survivors than having an Other kill her.
> 
> The Others aren't the heart of this story.  The survivors are.  If you're expecting the interactions with The Others to make or break this show, rather than the interactions among the survivors, you're going to be disappointed.




wow, saying the twist wasn't great obviously revealed a lot more....wrongly I might add, then the words would indicate.


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## Aeric (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Just thought you might like to know there are rampant rumors that Ana did NOT shoot Shannon.  Many are trying to say the shot sounded an awful lot like a rifle, not a handgun.  Plus we didn't actually see it happen, and well this is LOST and unless you see it, you never know.
> 
> EDIT: also a theory that the wound is from a knife, not a gun.  Screenshot:
> 
> http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1539/screencapsofshannonsdeath2ib.jpg




Very interesting!  Although Ana definitely fired her pistol, since when you see her afterwards, the slide is back, and it was mentioned earlier that they only had one bullet....  But it is entirely feasible that Shannon was stabbed by a spear or something and Ana fired on the attacker.

I'm definitely interested to see what happens next week!  Surely there are some medical surprises in the Hatch!


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Aeric said:
			
		

> Very interesting!  Although Ana definitely fired her pistol, since when you see her afterwards, the slide is back, and it was mentioned earlier that they only had one bullet....  But it is entirely feasible that Shannon was stabbed by a spear or something and Ana fired on the attacker.
> 
> I'm definitely interested to see what happens next week!  Surely there are some medical surprises in the Hatch!




Yeah, the "one shot" thing is what people are refuting the "second shooter" theory with.


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## WizarDru (Nov 10, 2005)

I think she did shoot her; but I'm still not convinced that there aren't two groups of Others.  I expect next episode will give us a better idea.

The Others the tail-section survivors faced appeared like they've 'gone savage'.  This was completely different from Ethan, he of the combat-boots, martial-arts training and super-human strength.  I'm guessing Ethan is part of some weird Dharma Eugenics nastiness, that the boat Others were parts of.

Questions: How did a pregnant woman get away from her captors?  Why are kidnapping people?  Why did they gank the tail-section survivors so badly, but virtually ignore the larger center-section group?  How has Rosseau evaded them for so long?  Is  her son among them?   Ethan, the boat people and the lords of the jungle seem awfully different in behavior and abilities.  If there is just one group of Others, why are they so different in character?  Could this be related to the different stations?  

hmmm.....

Could the Swan be keeping them safe from the Others?!?


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## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

I don't think Ethan had super human strength, he was just a better fighter.


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## BastionLightbringer (Nov 10, 2005)

Did anyone notice the teddy bear in the coming attractions from last week? It appears it was from a tail end survivors. I wonder if the kid dragging it 2 eps ago was a tail end survivor.

And did the tail end survivors mention any of their missing being children. Kind of wierd Walt was the only survivng child.

Bastion


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

BastionLightbringer said:
			
		

> Did anyone notice the teddy bear in the coming attractions from last week? It appears it was from a tail end survivors. I wonder if the kid dragging it 2 eps ago was a tail end survivor.
> 
> And did the tail end survivors mention any of their missing being children. Kind of wierd Walt was the only survivng child.
> 
> Bastion



Yes, the bear was noticed.

Yes, it is asked of Echo/Eku if he saw any of the children.


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## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Next theory:  Libby is the Other's plant:



> ...First off, go to the tape. Libby's the last one to interact with Cindy. And Cindy's carrying a large blue knapsack. By the time they've climbed to the top, Libby's carrying the knapsack. You're telling me she took the knapsack from Cindy and then proceeded to forget all about her? This is a ridge, not K-2 — you don't just ''lose'' people like that. Also notable: Cindy hands Libby a walking stick of some sort, just before we lose track of her completely. As this handoff takes place, we see a cavelike opening in the background, right where Cindy's about to pass. And it looks as if there's some sort of shape inside.
> 
> But here's my best evidence of Libby's treachery: Tonight, she told Sawyer she's a clinical psychologist. Well, who appears to have designed this tropical house of horrors, according to a certain orientation video? A team of clinical psychologists, that's who. Coincidence? What do you think?...


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## John Crichton (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> This has been talked about and I always expect there to be spoilers when any episode thread is started.  What I'm afraid of is people talking about future episode spoilers if we lable as such.  I'll try to label it clearly.



 Yeah, there has been discussion aplenty about ENWorld spoilers and personal preferences but I can't keep up so I just try and play it safe while not going nuts with things.  My post was the first one to talk about specific plot and others have just been hinting or speculating pre-show.  Just CMA.  

And, thanks!


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## John Crichton (Nov 10, 2005)

RedShirtNo5 said:
			
		

> Shannon could live, since Cindy might fulfil the promo.  But I agree it is more interesting for Shannon to die and Cindy to be an Other.
> 
> -RedShirtNo5



It could have been Cindy, but why have the promo make a big deal over a character with 2 lines and about 5 minutes of screen time?  And BTW - Cindy is a Cylon, so that takes care of that.  *jeeze*


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## John Crichton (Nov 10, 2005)

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> John Crichton, your comments on her journey being complete make sense. I like your thinking.
> 
> I expect the next episode will consist of Anna explaining her actions, which leads to her groups experiences on the island to justify her being so jumpy.



Thanks.  I think the show is simpler than it seems sometimes.  Little victories, with plot and all that.  Keeps me watchin'.


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## BastionLightbringer (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Next theory:  Libby is the Other's plant:




I can never decide if things like the backpack are planned or editing/bad-writing gafs. I guess I should give them the benefit of the doubt.


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## WizarDru (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I don't think Ethan had super human strength, he was just a better fighter.




If he wasn't superhumanly strong, then he was exceptionally fit.  In "Homecoming" 1x15, he lifts Charlie off the ground _by his throat_ and then holds him aloft by holding him on his throat and his wrist, without breaking a sweat.  Maybe not super-human, but pretty damn strong, considering.


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## Banshee16 (Nov 10, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> If he wasn't superhumanly strong, then he was exceptionally fit.  In "Homecoming" 1x15, he lifts Charlie off the ground _by his throat_ and then holds him aloft by holding him on his throat and his wrist, without breaking a sweat.  Maybe not super-human, but pretty damn strong, considering.




Hey, whoever said Canadians weren't tough? 

Banshee


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Also specualtion on shots of the "actual" shooter being left-handed and every time we see Ana with a gun it's in her right hand.
> 
> http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=830




Just wondering how you could establish the shooter was left handed? What promted these speculations?


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Just thought you might like to know there are rampant rumors that Ana did NOT shoot Shannon.  Many are trying to say the shot sounded an awful lot like a rifle, not a handgun.  Plus we didn't actually see it happen, and well this is LOST and unless you see it, you never know.
> 
> EDIT: also a theory that the wound is from a knife, not a gun.  Screenshot:
> 
> http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1539/screencapsofshannonsdeath2ib.jpg




Maybe I am dense, but what is the deal with the no sleeves pictures?   :\


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Just wondering how you could establish the shooter was left handed? What promted these speculations?




This is from screenshots and theorizing from various other sites.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Maybe I am dense, but what is the deal with the no sleeves pictures?   :\




I don't know about the sleeves, more interested in the wound size and shape.


----------



## Dagger75 (Nov 10, 2005)

I just want to get something straight for myself.

Jack had to choose between his wife-to-be or Shannon's dad right?  Also didn't his wife-to-be cause the accident?  (I forgot her name)


----------



## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> I just want to get something straight for myself.
> 
> Jack had to choose between his wife-to-be or Shannon's dad right?  Also didn't his wife-to-be cause the accident?  (I forgot her name)




This is not an uncommon thing for a hospital that uis understaffed or overworked.  The doctor can only be in one place at a time and two patience need him.  The doctor would have no idea who caused the crash or anything like that.  He just has two critical patients in front of him.  He did what he could.


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Nov 10, 2005)

I think so.  I was kind of angry when I first watched it when he left the old guy to die to save the woman who caused the accident.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

OK, the prevailing idea with all this is that what we saw were two different scenes completely.  Sayid and Shannon did not actually run into the tail section group, it was just edited to look like they did.  We never see any of the characters together.  Shannon yells after Walt, Sayid yells after Shannon, Sayid stumbles and we hear a gunshot from his perspective, Shannon stumbles into Sayid, we see Ana lowering the recently fired gun, back to Sayid and Shannon (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=830), we see the incredulous faces of the other tail section people and Ana again, we see Sayid rise in apparent anger, fade to black.

Using this theory, Shannon is dead and was killed by someone with a sharp instrument and we do not know who Ana shot.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 10, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Maybe I am dense, but what is the deal with the no sleeves pictures?   :\



I don't get it either but the gun is in left hand and yet we see Anna has it in her right, you also have Sadyn looking at the person, we really can't say it is Anna and the group, may be another person.  We also do not really know if Sadyn has his gun, he takes it out and places it in the hut before Shannon sees Walt, does he pick it back up or did Walt or someone else.  The group, MAY be off the side of the picture and seeing a stranger...

Okay, that just is WAY out there but something to think about as Jack has been seen without sleeves...and is left handed...


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Here is a GIF image of the screen shot I have linked a couple times.

http://soulykeeper.proboards25.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=clues2&thread=1131647023

I am about 99% convinced Ana did not shoot Shannon.  We'll have to wait a couple weeks at least to find out.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

If its true it is a shame the show feels it needs to blantantly mislead the audience like that.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> If its true it is a shame the show feels it needs to blantantly mislead the audience like that.




I don't see it that way.  It's misdirection and is used all the time in TV and Movies- what you think you saw is not what you actually saw.  It's what made The Sixth Sense a fun movie.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I don't know about the sleeves, more interested in the wound size and shape.



The gunshot wound is the obvious one, I'm just wondering what the importance of the sleeves are?


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> The gunshot wound is the obvious one, I'm just wondering what the importance of the sleeves are?



I wouldn't get too hung up on it.  I haven't seen it discussed anywhere else at all.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 10, 2005)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> I think so.  I was kind of angry when I first watched it when he left the old guy to die to save the woman who caused the accident.



I thought the reason he let Shannon's father die, was because he had caused the accident. It seemed he had a look of anger on his face, then turned back and kept working on his soon to be wife.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

OK, last screen shot of this for me, I'm convinced.  Lightened screen shot of Shannon's killer:

http://home.mchsi.com/~capandhunny/wsb/media/973900/site1078.jpg


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I wouldn't get too hung up on it.  I haven't seen it discussed anywhere else at all.




But it's an intergral of the plot I tell you.  Mark my words this will came back to haunt us.  

Was that a bit over the top?


----------



## Crothian (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I don't see it that way.  It's misdirection and is used all the time in TV and Movies- what you think you saw is not what you actually saw.  It's what made The Sixth Sense a fun movie.




Sixth Sense I found an obvious movie.  But the show uses so much misdirection already that I feel this is just too much.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Sixth Sense I found an obvious movie.  But the show uses so much misdirection already that I feel this is just too much.




I can understand that.  I'm still enjoying it though.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 10, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> OK, last screen shot of this for me, I'm convinced.  Lightened screen shot of Shannon's killer:
> 
> http://home.mchsi.com/~capandhunny/wsb/media/973900/site1078.jpg



I don't know if I would say killer just let, if she was stabbed...that just may be another bystander.  

Sadyn will know the difference between a stab wound and a gun shot, so will Jack, so I say drama, fight, and misunderstanding for a bit.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 10, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I don't know if I would say killer just let, if she was stabbed...that just may be another bystander.
> 
> Sadyn will know the difference between a stab wound and a gun shot, so will Jack, so I say drama, fight, and misunderstanding for a bit.



True dat.  Can't assume she's dead from the episode.


----------



## KaosDevice (Nov 10, 2005)

Some observations:

-Look at that screenshot a little closer. The shooter looks to me to be holding the gun in both hands. The left one over the right one. If you watch earlier in the ep Anna Lucia stands in that classic two handed grip a couple of times. The character has obviously handled a weapon before.

-I kind of saw the whole Shannon being shot by Anna thing coming. It was pretty obvious to me the dog and Walt were leading them toward the tail section group. I hate to say but I found this episode pretty predictable. Which is something I never usually say about Lost.

-Cindy was totally expendable. I had her pegged as either a red shirt or an other since we first saw her. As for Libby, that is an interesting theory that she might be a plant as well. Let's find out her last name and see what it anagrams out to.


----------



## mmu1 (Nov 10, 2005)

I don't know - I'm not buying that's even a gun at all, just yet. Things look funny on camera sometimes, but this is all wrong in a number of ways.

1. You can see the first two knuckles of the hand (which seems to be folded into a fist, or at least have the fingers curled) - which means that if there was a gun in that hand, you should be able to also see some of the slide, and the "barrel" ought to be way farther to the left than it is in the picture.

2. It looks awkward as hell for a two-handed grip - I just tried, and I'm not physically able to reach the palm of my left hand with my right, when standing in that position, with the left elbow extended.

3. The thing projecting below the hand is clearly bent, which makes me think it's more likely to be a loop of fabric or a strap of some sort.

4. That's a lot of empty space between the inside of the elbow, the body, and what looks like it ought to be hip/upper leg area (or a shirt or something wrapped around the hips). If I had to guess, I'd say it was a woman.


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 10, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Sadyn will know the difference between a stab wound and a gun shot, so will Jack, so I say drama, fight, and misunderstanding for a bit.



You mean Sayid?


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Nov 11, 2005)

> I don't know - I'm not buying that's even a gun at all, just yet. Things look funny on camera sometimes, but this is all wrong in a number of ways.
> 
> 1. You can see the first two knuckles of the hand (which seems to be folded into a fist, or at least have the fingers curled) - which means that if there was a gun in that hand, you should be able to also see some of the slide, and the "barrel" ought to be way farther to the left than it is in the picture.
> 
> ...




LOL, you guys crack me up.  This is getting picked over like the Zapruder film.  "Shannon fell back and to the left.  Back and to the left.  Back...and to the left."

Gawd I love the intarweb.


----------



## Dagger75 (Nov 11, 2005)

Well I times the gunshot to when the bullet hit.  And using Sayid for a point of refrence I was able to accuratly calculate the distance between Shannon and "The Shooter".  With the type of gun shown and knowing the muzzle velocity of the bullet I was able to determine there were 3!!! yes 3 gunman.    They both shot from some grass knolls so to speak and both aimed in the exact same place.  Now it is very hard to tell which bullet from what gunman on the grassy knoll actually killed Shannon.


----------



## mmu1 (Nov 11, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> LOL, you guys crack me up.  This is getting picked over like the Zapruder film.  "Shannon fell back and to the left.  Back and to the left.  Back...and to the left."
> 
> Gawd I love the intarweb.




It's one of the joys of working in a bio lab... You have a lot of time to kill when you're working late and some stupid procedure you're running needs an hour and a half of incubation time.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Nov 11, 2005)

Isn't that Echo's arm in that picture?

I mean, he had spear-thingy.


----------



## BastionLightbringer (Nov 11, 2005)

Did anyone else see the useless "extra footage" on goodmorning america today?

Bastion


----------



## fett527 (Nov 11, 2005)

BastionLightbringer said:
			
		

> Did anyone else see the useless "extra footage" on goodmorning america today?
> 
> Bastion




I haven't seen anything about it yet.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 11, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> LOL, you guys crack me up.  This is getting picked over like the Zapruder film.  "Shannon fell back and to the left.  Back and to the left.  Back...and to the left."
> 
> Gawd I love the intarweb.




Me too!    If you couldn't tell I'm having a lot of fun with this.  You'd love some of the ridiculous crap on actual LOST boards.  We don't even scratch the surface of the paranoia and moronic theories.  I try to comb through them a bit and find the most believable.


----------



## fett527 (Nov 11, 2005)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> I don't know - I'm not buying that's even a gun at all, just yet. Things look funny on camera sometimes, but this is all wrong in a number of ways.
> 
> 1. You can see the first two knuckles of the hand (which seems to be folded into a fist, or at least have the fingers curled) - which means that if there was a gun in that hand, you should be able to also see some of the slide, and the "barrel" ought to be way farther to the left than it is in the picture.
> 
> ...




In my posts I thought I was clear that it is believed it is not a gun (in the screen shot of Sayid and Shannon on the ground and the assailant in the foreground).  It appears Shannon is stabbed, not shot.


----------



## David Howery (Nov 11, 2005)

what a bummer... they kill off the best of the eye candy on the show.  And just when you find out her life was screwed up by her evil stepmother.
On a completely different note, what the heck was the deal with that abysmal Xbox commercial... a bunch of kids having a massive water balloon fight, with "Daydream Believer" as the soundtrack?  OK, Xbox and video game commercials are in general weird, but this one just made me go "huh?"....


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Nov 11, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> It could have been Cindy, but why have the promo make a big deal over a character with 2 lines and about 5 minutes of screen time?  And BTW - Cindy is a Cylon, so that takes care of that.  *jeeze*




I agree with this sentiment- from the minute I saw "Cindy" in the previous episode, she practically screamed "red shirt!"


----------



## Steverooo (Nov 11, 2005)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> Great episode.  I really liked seeing Boone again and Shannon's backstory.  Hopefully Sayed shoots Anna.  I disliked her character from the start and she hasn't made me like her any more since.




Nah!  Rodriguez (the actress who plays Anna Lucia, as well as one of the Corporate Mercs in Resident Evil) is always a "tough guy".  In Resident Evil, her merc character was "one of the guys" (although she took orders a bit better).  Next week, we'll see her as tough, argumentative, and the kind to "take charge" and start barking orders when no one else knew what to do.

What I want to see is, what will she do when she encounters Jack & Locke?  Jack is the group's de facto leader, and Locke has always allowed that to happen (even encouraged it)!  Now, Anna Lucia, who is used to MAKING people follow her orders, is stepping into the mix...

And don't forget, we've already seen Locke loading one of the shelter's M-16s (or were they ARs?)...

Gee, I don't smell any trouble... DO YOU?!?


----------



## Steverooo (Nov 11, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> As for Libby, that is an interesting theory that she might be a plant as well. Let's find out her last name and see what it anagrams out to.




...Nidrob!


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 11, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> In my posts I thought I was clear that it is believed it is not a gun (in the screen shot of Sayid and Shannon on the ground and the assailant in the foreground).  It appears Shannon is stabbed, not shot.




It definatley looks like a stab wound. Although the assailant looks like he/she is holding a gun. I get that from the possition of the hand and that it looks like a barrel of a gun coming below the hand


----------



## mmu1 (Nov 11, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> It definatley looks like a stab wound. Although the assailant looks like he/she is holding a gun. I get that from the possition of the hand and that it looks like a barrel of a gun coming below the hand




Look - draw an imaginary line that passes through the elbow and the wrist of that hand (running along the center of the forearm) Then another one, along the barrel of the gun.

If there's a gun in there, the lines _have to_ intersect somewhere in the area of the left hand (since the wrist looks to be fairly straight), but where they actually meet is somewhere halfway up the forearm.

It still _might_ be a gun, but it certainly doesn't _look_ like it - on top of what I just mentioned, the perspective is also completely wrong. (the "barrel" would be in roughly the right place, perspective-wise, if this was the right hand of someone facing the camera, not the left hand of someone facing away from it)


----------



## dravot (Nov 11, 2005)

It's obviously a bayonette at the end of the pistol.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 11, 2005)

dravot said:
			
		

> It's obviously a bayonette at the end of the pistol.



Cross hilt of a sword, the upper part is being blocked by the arm and the blade by the body.  Yep, thats it.


----------



## shaylon (Nov 11, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> On a completely different note, what the heck was the deal with that abysmal Xbox commercial... a bunch of kids having a massive water balloon fight, with "Daydream Believer" as the soundtrack?  OK, Xbox and video game commercials are in general weird, but this one just made me go "huh?"....




Uh yeah, that was terrible!  Just terrible.

No hijack intended.

-Shay


----------



## Cutter XXIII (Nov 11, 2005)

Fett, many thanks for tightening the lid on Spoilers in these threads. Now I can actually participate!   



			
				fett527 said:
			
		

> OK, last screen shot of this for me, I'm convinced.  Lightened screen shot of Shannon's killer:
> 
> http://home.mchsi.com/~capandhunny/wsb/media/973900/site1078.jpg




Convinced that it's Ana Lucia? Or that it isn't?

It's all well and good to look at screencaps, but I think it's much easier to come to the conclusion that Ana didn't shoot Shannon if that's all you rely upon. I went back and watched the scene again on my DVR last night, pause, slo mo, all that good stuff.

Ana Lucia shot Shannon. Seriously. It's not two scenes edited together, the gunshot does NOT have the long fading echo of a rifle shot (it sounds like the crack of a pistol), and its apparent when you watch the full scene that Ana begins to lower the empty gun toward her left side. Then it cuts back to the screencap you linked, as that left arm arrives at her side. Also, look at the expression on Ana Lucia's face! It's not a "OH GOD I SHOT CINDY" look, it's the look of someone who doesn't know exactly what she's done, but she can tell it was a big mistake.

Without seeing the motion, how the whole thing is actually edited, screencaps are telling less than half the story.

I could be wrong, it is LOST after all, but I'm stating my belief now. Ana shot Shannon.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 11, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> Uh yeah, that was terrible!  Just terrible.
> 
> No hijack intended.
> 
> -Shay



[hijack] 
Did you see the jump rope commercial for X-Box 360. I think it was on a few minutes prior to Lost. That was only slightly better than the water baloon fight. Though some of the tricks they did were interesting.
[/hijack]


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 11, 2005)

You know this episode is going to make me crack and buy it off i-tunes, just so I can whatch it over and over and over...


----------



## KaosDevice (Nov 11, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Me too!    If you couldn't tell I'm having a lot of fun with this.  You'd love some of the ridiculous crap on actual LOST boards.  We don't even scratch the surface of the paranoia and moronic theories.  I try to comb through them a bit and find the most believable.





You aren't kidding! Some of the threads border on the schizophrenic. Every now and then though there is a good observation but wow, do you have to do a lot of wading to find one.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Nov 11, 2005)

I was just scared that they were actually going to kill of Sawyer (which, I guess they still *could*)... he has easily become my favorite character and an actor that I would *LOVE* to see do bigger things... and he's totally good looking.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Nov 11, 2005)

I couple more thoughts I had before I have to go to work.

First, I want to know how come every male character has longer hair in the past.    

Second, I'm really beginning to suspect that Boone and Shannon were meant to be semi-redshirts from the very beginning of the show.  They knew they needed to kill people to keep the suspense up, so they wrote in characters that they knew would get killed.  They weren't particularly likable so that it wouldn't be a big uproar when they died.  It's really kind of a shame, since I think they both had places to go.

Third, on a tangentially related note, I like the fact that we don't know all of Boone and Shannon's stories.  That's the way life works, you get hints, maybe you get a bit of story, but you never get the whole thing.

Finally, my big ol' speculation on the Tailies.  Personally, I think Ana killed Goodwin to keep the others in line.  Note that Ana said the Others _took_ the Tailies, not that they killed them outright.  Now that Eko, Libby, and Bernard know there are other people out there, they're rebelling against her.


----------



## WizarDru (Nov 11, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Personally, I think Ana killed Goodwin to keep the others in line.  Note that Ana said the Others _took_ the Tailies, not that they killed them outright.  Now that Eko, Libby, and Bernard know there are other people out there, they're rebelling against her.




Nah, I think she was a nice person who became a total stone-breaker to survive.  If she killed Godwin, it's because Godwin became one of the others.  I think they're cutting her a lot of slack because she's been the leader and kept them alive.  I don't think it was a coincidence that her pre-flight encounter was with Jack, the other natural leader.  I also agree with the previous idea that she has some experience with a gun.  She holds it like she knows how to use it, she was able to grab it from someone holding it and wield it almost instantly (and clearly entered the pit with that intention) and she shot Shannon dead-center when she appeared.  I'm guessing she was a cop, but we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Nov 11, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I'm guessing she was a cop, but we'll have to wait and see.




Maybe she was on the SWAT team!

Ugh.  I really didn't want her character to go in this direction.  She plays the same character in every film I've seen her in.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Nov 12, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> Ugh.  I really didn't want her character to go in this direction.  She plays the same character in every film I've seen her in.




I agree, although with the caveat that I suspect her backstory will be quite a 180 from the "tough girl" we're currently seeing. Which will be interesting, if so. (Kind of like Jin's backstory).


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 12, 2005)

She's actually a maid.  Maid/security guard.

Yeah.  That's it.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 12, 2005)

In case some of you tivo or tape the epidoes, this week's is going from 9-10:05 so you might need to adjust the times so you get it all.


----------



## spatha (Nov 12, 2005)

Ok here is my question.
Does anyone have the dvd's of the first season of Lost? If so in the episode where Boone has the vision of Shannon covered in blood what clothes is she wearing and what type of wound is it? Basically wondering if she is wearing the same clothes on this episode and if he had a vision of things to come.


----------



## Fast Learner (Nov 12, 2005)

Having rewatched this ep, I consider the "Ana didn't shoot Shannon" theory to be bunk. She's got a whole weapon thing attached to her belt on that side, and the strap hanging down is very likely from that.


----------



## TwistedBishop (Nov 13, 2005)

spatha said:
			
		

> Ok here is my question.
> Does anyone have the dvd's of the first season of Lost? If so in the episode where Boone has the vision of Shannon covered in blood what clothes is she wearing and what type of wound is it? Basically wondering if she is wearing the same clothes on this episode and if he had a vision of things to come.




The episode where Locke drugs him?  It's the same shirt.  Much different damage though.

EDIT:  Actually, no sorry, I was wrong.  Different shirt.


----------



## Crothian (Nov 13, 2005)

That's a real shame, it would have been cool if they would have coneected the two events like that.


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 13, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> In case some of you tivo or tape the epidoes, this week's is going from 9-10:05 so you might need to adjust the times so you get it all.



 Thanks for the heads-up.  TiVo always catches these changes for me (it's why I pay them) but now I can check the program guide just to make sure.


----------



## John Crichton (Nov 13, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> That's a real shame, it would have been cool if they would have coneected the two events like that.



 Shame, nah.  I thought you were sick of all the potential extra intrigue?


----------



## Crothian (Nov 13, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Shame, nah.  I thought you were sick of all the potential extra intrigue?




Only the bad kind.  This would have been something that only the audience would have seen and really show that the writers are planning things that matter in the future.


----------



## Nellisir (Nov 13, 2005)

I wasn't enthralled with this episode, but they can't be perfect every time.

1) I think Anna shot Shannon.
2) I hope Shannon's not dead, though I doubt it.  Watching a character hit bottom is only half the story -- watching them recover and climb back out is the other half.
3) I'm getting flashes of Peter Pan, of all things.  A hidden band of people with an underground hideout and a pirate ship?  I'd guess they kidnap children to recruit them, not eat them or something.
4) I want to see Locke vs Echo more than Anna vs Jack.
5) I still don't get what "the monster" is.
6) The supermagnetic anomaly is weird.  Bet it plays havoc with compasses around that island.


----------



## ThirdWizard (Nov 13, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> 5) I still don't get what "the monster" is.




Just remembered something. A while back I noted a strange sound I heard while the shadow thing was carrying Locke away. I figured out what it reminded me of: the sound you hear while a roller coaster is being pulled up that first hill. If anyone has the DVD and would check it, it would be great, as it was a long time between hearing it and thinking of what it reminded me of. It could have changed in my head between the two events. I'm pretty sure that's what it sounded like, though.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 13, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> 4) I want to see Locke vs Echo more than Anna vs Jack.




I don't think that will come to pass as both character don't appear to be the violent type. You have never seen Locke be agressive with any of they other survivors. And as for Eku his violenece seems to stem from survival.


----------



## Nellisir (Nov 13, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I don't think that will come to pass as both character don't appear to be the violent type. You have never seen Locke be agressive with any of they other survivors. And as for Eku his violenece seems to stem from survival.




I don't mean a physical confrontation.  I suspect they won't instantly be best buds, and there will probably be some rivalry.


----------



## Nellisir (Nov 13, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> Just remembered something. A while back I noted a strange sound I heard while the shadow thing was carrying Locke away. I figured out what it reminded me of: the sound you hear while a roller coaster is being pulled up that first hill. If anyone has the DVD and would check it, it would be great, as it was a long time between hearing it and thinking of what it reminded me of. It could have changed in my head between the two events. I'm pretty sure that's what it sounded like, though.




Yeah, that sounds right.  Some kind of cogs/geared thing.  Which addss another item to the weird Never-never-land comparison -- the monster with the distinctive sound.


----------



## WizarDru (Nov 14, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> I don't mean a physical confrontation.  I suspect they won't instantly be best buds, and there will probably be some rivalry.




Rivalry, nothing....she's an outsider, and a pretty unpleasant one, currently.  Jack's kept them alive for weeks, and while Locke and he don't see eye-to-eye all the time, there's no schism.  I thought there might be when Locked walked off on 'hatch night', but it didn't happen.  If she tries to push the mid-section survivors, they aren't going to follow her, but probably jump right behind Jack, if anything.

I expect Hurley will defuse any tension that does occur.  It's what he does.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 14, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> I don't mean a physical confrontation.  I suspect they won't instantly be best buds, and there will probably be some rivalry.



I see Eku and Jack as a good buddy combo (add Shyd {sp}), much like Jin and Micheal are (add Sawyer), Locke is a wildcard - he may support but he is a loose cannon doning what he feels.  The women, well, they complicate things, Kate has shown she will back Jack but mostly do her own things (be interesting to see what happens when her feelings for Sawyer come to light...she did not say good-bye), Shannon did not do much of anything, Sun has been much to herself but will follow Jin, Anna, I think will be the Jack love interest and work with him.  There is a lot of character interaction that can be played out; such as Kate vs Anna (bad guy vs cop (is that is Anna's background) and love interest.


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## Steverooo (Nov 14, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I expect Hurley will defuse any tension that does occur.  It's what he does.




"DUDE!!!"


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 14, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> "DUDE!!!"



It is almost amazing how much power with the group he really has, a quite leader...most of the nameless seem to follow his lead more than any of the major characters.


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## KaosDevice (Nov 15, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> It is almost amazing how much power with the group he really has, a quite leader...most of the nameless seem to follow his lead more than any of the major characters.





I was thinking that the other day as well. He seems to be able to corrall the other 'minor' castaways into all sorts of projects. He of course had to get to know everyone when he did the census that turned up Ethan Rom. I look forward to seeing how many of the tail section people are on the census.


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## Nellisir (Nov 15, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Rivalry, nothing....she's an outsider, and a pretty unpleasant one, currently.  Jack's kept them alive for weeks, and while Locke and he don't see eye-to-eye all the time, there's no schism.  I thought there might be when Locked walked off on 'hatch night', but it didn't happen.  If she tries to push the mid-section survivors, they aren't going to follow her, but probably jump right behind Jack, if anything.




I'm talking about Echo/Eku & Locke, not Anna vs Locke.  I don't think Locke & Anna will get along at all, though I could be 100% wrong about that.  Locke currently has his own agenda.  He backs Jack as a leader because he doesn't want the job, at all.  I'm not sure that he's "naturally" a loner, but he certainly wants to be.

Right now, Echo & Locke are the only two people we've seen that are probably capable of surviving the island, on their own, and coming anywhere close to the level of woodcraft the Others have.  Locke may not care about Echo; they might be instant allies (doubtful, given Locke's secretive nature); or they might be quiet rivals.  

I don't really care about Anna vs Jack -- Anna's "leadership" certainly doesn't seem to have helped the tail group any, and they are so few they'll just get swallowed up with the midsection survivors anyway.  They're not meeting as equal groups.  The tail survivors are in a run-or-die situation; they're supplicants for refuge.  So far, Anna just hasn't got any kind of power base to justify a try for overall leadership.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 15, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> I'm talking about Echo/Eku & Locke, not Anna vs Locke.  I don't think Locke & Anna will get along at all, though I could be 100% wrong about that.  Locke currently has his own agenda.  He backs Jack as a leader because he doesn't want the job, at all.  I'm not sure that he's "naturally" a loner, but he certainly wants to be.
> 
> Right now, Echo & Locke are the only two people we've seen that are probably capable of surviving the island, on their own, and coming anywhere close to the level of woodcraft the Others have.  Locke may not care about Echo; they might be instant allies (doubtful, given Locke's secretive nature); or they might be quiet rivals.
> 
> I don't really care about Anna vs Jack -- Anna's "leadership" certainly doesn't seem to have helped the tail group any, and they are so few they'll just get swallowed up with the midsection survivors anyway.  They're not meeting as equal groups.  The tail survivors are in a run-or-die situation; they're supplicants for refuge.  So far, Anna just hasn't got any kind of power base to justify a try for overall leadership.



Locke sometimes appears a villian in the look of a lacky/henchman - villian can be a good guy - he just gives me the impression he wants a side kick, I am Batman, you are Robin, thing going on.


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## WizarDru (Nov 15, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> Right now, Echo & Locke are the only two people we've seen that are probably capable of surviving the island, on their own, and coming anywhere close to the level of woodcraft the Others have.  Locke may not care about Echo; they might be instant allies (doubtful, given Locke's secretive nature); or they might be quiet rivals.




I'm not sure I take that as a given.  Most of the characters are survivors, specific wilderness lore or not.  Jack has good instincts; Kate is a natural survivor; Sayid has military training (and has survived on the island on his own already); Sawyer is a packrat and has natural cunning.  Several of the survivors have the capacity.  What Locke and Echo have that the others don't is specific survival lore.  However, without someone like Jack, the survivors are in a bad way...he's the only doctor they've got.  

I don't see any rivalry between Echo and Locke over skillsets....Locke goes his own path, even now.  He's shared his lore with several people...but he's studied it for years, clearly, since he lost the use of his legs.  It's not like the tribe depends on Locke; he's helpful but not essential.


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## KaosDevice (Nov 15, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> .  It's not like the tribe depends on Locke; he's helpful but not essential.




Aside from the whole feeding people thing he was doing for awhile there...


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## LightPhoenix (Nov 15, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Aside from the whole feeding people thing he was doing for awhile there...




Except we know that Jin was fishing, and that at least some other people were also hunting/gathering, per Arzt when he goes off on Hurley about the clique.  He was bringing in boar, which was good but not essential.


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 15, 2005)

Any guesses on whats going to happen tomorrow that they need an extra 4 mins?


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## WizarDru (Nov 15, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Aside from the whole feeding people thing he was doing for awhile there...




As LightPhoenix points out, Locke wasn't feeding the whole tribe.  He provided meat ONCE, as far as we know.  Remember there were several instances of "_...any luck catching more Boar, John?_"  Jin was fishing, Sun was planting and most of the rest were gathering; remember that the first time we actually talk to Ethan, he's gathering fruit, iirc.  Locke spent at least half of his time on the island on the hatch and we have no indication he's been hunting since, so no one's depending on him for much of anything.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 15, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Any guesses on whats going to happen tomorrow that they need an extra 4 mins?



cliff hanger ending...but I thought it was going to be more than four minutes, that just makes me think they are putting in as many commericals as they can and it is causing the show to run over its time slot, sneaky hobbits!


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## KaosDevice (Nov 15, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Locke spent at least half of his time on the island on the hatch and we have no indication he's been hunting since, so no one's depending on him for much of anything.





That's not a very nice thing to say about Locke.


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## Crothian (Nov 15, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> cliff hanger ending...but I thought it was going to be more than four minutes, that just makes me think they are putting in as many commericals as they can and it is causing the show to run over its time slot, sneaky hobbits!




THe cliff hanger already hpapened, the shooting of shannon.  Now, they are just going to give us an episode that covers something we probably don't need to know or at least couldn't guess what happened.  This way, they can carry the cliff hanger till the new year since I doubt we will get a new episode before the year is out.  But I haven't checked the schedule on that and might just be wrong there.


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## Nellisir (Nov 15, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I take that as a given.  Most of the characters are survivors, specific wilderness lore or not.  Jack has good instincts; Kate is a natural survivor; Sayid has military training (and has survived on the island on his own already); Sawyer is a packrat and has natural cunning.  Several of the survivors have the capacity.  What Locke and Echo have that the others don't is specific survival lore.  However, without someone like Jack, the survivors are in a bad way...he's the only doctor they've got.




I should've added Sayid to that list.  All the rest* might survive the island (people, quite frankly, are much harder to kill than they think they are), but probably not the Others.  That's the killer.

I think Jack, like Locke, is helpful but not essential.  Other people have medical training (Sayid), and you can survive alot with basic first aid.  Jack doesn't have the equipment and medicine doctors in 21st century facilities have, and without those, anyone to whom he's essential is pretty well screwed anyways.

Cheers
Nell.

*and, obviously, by "rest" I mean those we know anything about.  Maybe there is a professional hunter or logger or Navy Seal or something mixed in there, but no one has told us yet.


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## Fast Learner (Nov 16, 2005)

By "the rest," I assumed you meant it as in "and the rest," the poor phrasing that was replaced after the first season with "The Professor and... MaryAnn...."


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## Fast Learner (Nov 16, 2005)

It appears there will be new episodes throughout the month (3 more), then on in mid-December, then starting up again in mid-January. Though I'd guess that schedule isn't completely firm.


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 16, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> THe cliff hanger already hpapened, the shooting of shannon.  Now, they are just going to give us an episode that covers something we probably don't need to know or at least couldn't guess what happened.  This way, they can carry the cliff hanger till the new year since I doubt we will get a new episode before the year is out.  But I haven't checked the schedule on that and might just be wrong there.




I would think they would give us more than two episodes before going back to repeats.


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## WizarDru (Nov 16, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> I think Jack, like Locke, is helpful but not essential.  Other people have medical training (Sayid), and you can survive alot with basic first aid.  Jack doesn't have the equipment and medicine doctors in 21st century facilities have, and without those, anyone to whom he's essential is pretty well screwed anyways.




Not essential?  I don't agree.  How many people can even diagnose an illness?  Being able to do triage work is good...but Jack's the only one who can even attempt surgery.  He's not at peak efficiency...but Sun's rememdies wouldn't help if Jack hadn't identified the problem.  As supplies run out and different issues start to crop up, Jack will become more valuable, not less.  He'll have to become more creative, but he's the only doctor the survivors have...and if the early episodes are any indication, Jack's skills healed a lot of problems (mostly off-camera, but it's implied).  He's not irreplacable, but he's extremely valuable.  I'm willing to bet Sawyer's life is depending on him, right now.


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## KaosDevice (Nov 16, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> He's not irreplacable, but he's extremely valuable.  I'm willing to bet Sawyer's life is depending on him, right now.




Not to mention having that whole natural leader/organizer thing going on.


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