# D&D General Example of what 20% looks like



## GMforPowergamers

Here is from another thread. IT is an example for everyone to see what WotC is REALLY asking for.



billd91 said:


> Small by what metric? Would the publisher of The Griffon's Saddlebag be a small publisher by your terms? Griffon Macauley hit a windfall of $1.2 million on his Kickstarter for volume 2. His goal: $15,000.
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> The Griffon's Saddlebag: Book 2
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> The anticipated sequel with over 500 game-ready magic items, player options, settings, and more for 5e. Give out better treasure!
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> www.kickstarter.com
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> Now, I don't know what margin he was budgeting per unit he's producing and selling, but clearly that Kickstarter went WELL beyond expectations, none of which included suddenly having to pay 20% of that to WotC if he's forced to shift to OGL 1.1 because WotC pushes that license before his delivery of the product.



thank you for providing an example... lets MATH...

$1,237,197
the first 750,000 is free so
$487,197 is going to be the 20%

let me google what kickstarter takes looks like 5%

so already kickstarter take $61,860
bringing this to $1,175,337
then WotC would take 20% or $97,440
bringing us down to $1,077,897


lets pretend instead of kickstarter it was a preorder (like say through your own web store) the end result is the same, you made over a mil $1,077,897 but for no work and to recoup any legal fees for this wotc took the full 25% so they would have just made just shy of 160k ($159,300)


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## FrogReaver

GMforPowergamers said:


> Here is from another thread. IT is an example for everyone to see what WotC is REALLY asking for.
> 
> 
> thank you for providing an example... lets MATH...
> 
> $1,237,197
> the first 750,000 is free so
> $487,197 is going to be the 20%
> 
> let me google what kickstarter takes looks like 5%
> 
> so already kickstarter take $61,860
> bringing this to $1,175,337
> then WotC would take 20% or $97,440
> bringing us down to $1,077,897
> 
> 
> lets pretend instead of kickstarter it was a preorder (like say through your own web store) the end result is the same, you made over a mil $1,077,897 but for no work and to recoup any legal fees for this wotc took the full 25% so they would have just made just shy of 160k ($159,300)



It's worse.  Your profits at the end of the day also factor in your costs.  Essentially that 20% of revenue over 750,000 might translate into 20-30% or more of your profits.


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## GMforPowergamers

FrogReaver said:


> It's worse.  Your profits at the end of the day also factor in your costs.  Essentially that 20% of revenue over 750,000 might translate into 20-30% or more of your profits.



oh yes this is revenue not profit...

in the above example it is possible that after that 5% and then that 20% over 750k that the profit is $0... in fact if you don't plan well and get a run away you could end up not being able to deliver because it would cost you more to make the product then you have.


I have not done the books for a kickstarter, but I have done the books for small businesses. I can tell you I have watched as year 1 and 2 of a start up runs in the red and year 3's catching up to black really means that the company made a few hundred dollars over the 3 years. I have watched GAME STORES multi go out of business pre covid because the owners were working 100+ hours unpaid while a spouse worked OT at a different job and still put 20ish hours into the store... and they were not making it. 

I have a friend I help with books in publishing (ha, books, publishing, I kill me) and he only keeps his little press around losing money sometimes because it allows him to keep his own out of print works and his friends out of print works IN PRINT... and in doing so if he makes money it's a bonus.


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## mamba

GMforPowergamers said:


> oh yes this is revenue not profit...
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> in the above example it is possible that after that 5% and then that 20% over 750k that the profit is $0... in fact if you don't plan well and get a run away you could end up not being able to deliver because it would cost you more to make the product then you have.



that is basically what Kickstarter said


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## GMforPowergamers

mamba said:


> that is basically what Kickstarter said
> 
> View attachment 271595



As a numbers guy I would say DON'T put out an OGL book on kickstarter or not with this... the risks are too high


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## mamba

GMforPowergamers said:


> As a numbers guy I would say DON'T put out an OGL book on kickstarter or not with this... the risks are too high



Yeah, I do not see much interest in the OGL 1.1. Maybe now two things finally get tested, 1) is the OGL 1.0a revocable, 2) what exactly is it that 3PPs could not do without it

From where I stand the 1.1 serves two purposes, revoke 1.0 and get everyone else to sign individual contracts or go away altogether. It is not really meant to be used. WotC might even be happy if it only manages to revoke the OGL 1.0 with it.


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## Zardnaar

mamba said:


> Yeah, I do not see much interest in the OGL 1.1. Maybe now two things finally get tested, 1) is the OGL 1.0a revocable, 2) what exactly is it that 3PPs could not do without it
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> From where I stand the 1.1 serves two purposes, revoke 1.0 and get everyone else to sign individual contracts or go away altogether. It is not really meant to be used. WotC might even be happy if it only manages to revoke the OGL 1.0 with it.




 Well I think they want to have smaller publishers doing adventures or whatever they can nuke at any time. 

 Or any books need to be 20% more expensive.


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