# So Cyberpunk 2077



## TerraDave (Dec 10, 2020)

So the RPG that is getting a huge, AAA, globally marketed, biggest media inspired by a table-top game ever, is....

...Cyberpunk. 

I mean, its a great game, though I haven't played it in a while. 

Still, seems like another game (or actually a couple of others) would have got there first.


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## trappedslider (Dec 10, 2020)

You're just NOW learning about this? It was first announced 7 yrs ago. each delay made news, the Crunch time made news...a little late to the party there buddy lol


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## Umbran (Dec 10, 2020)

TerraDave said:


> Still, seems like another game (or actually a couple of others) would have got there first.




They did.  In their day, Baldur's Gate games won how many awards?


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## Gradine (Dec 10, 2020)

Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 is coming down the chute in 2021 too.

But then, so is Baldur's Gate 3. Though I suppose not having simultaneous console release is probably going to hurt sales/cachet in that case.

In either case, enjoy Cyberpunk, but make sure to watch out for seizures!


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## LuisCarlos17f (Dec 10, 2020)

I only want to say this videogame for one day has made more money than the original TTRPG publisher for a decade. Am I wrong? Then the future of lots of IPs from the TTRPG industry are the videogames adaptations.


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## trappedslider (Dec 11, 2020)

My V


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## CleverNickName (Dec 11, 2020)

A friend of mine is playing it on XBox, and he's pretty frustrated with the glitches and performance.  Another friend of mine is playing on PlayStation, and he had to restart his game twice because of updates trashing his save file.  I haven't heard from any of my friends who are playing it on PC, but apparently the PC version is the most stable of the three.  No surprise there, I guess.

There was a patch _on release day_, and another stability patch released today.  I know this is becoming common practice in the gaming industry, but...seriously?  Two major stability patches in less than 24 hours? After spending more than _seven years _developing it?  And this is somehow _common practice_ in the industry?!

That's an expensive and overhyped Early Access game, not an official release.  They should be honest about that.  Most hardcore fans would buy it anyway and grit their teeth through the multiple patches, updates, bug fixes, and game crashes.  As tired as we are of waiting, plenty of us would prefer to wait another six months for a stable, complete, and you know, _finished_ version.


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## billd91 (Dec 11, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> A friend of mine is playing it on XBox, and he's pretty frustrated with the glitches and performance.  Another friend of mine is playing on PlayStation, and he had to restart his game twice because of updates trashing his save file.  I haven't heard from any of my friends who are playing it on PC, but apparently the PC version is the most stable of the three.  No surprise there, I guess.
> 
> There was a patch _on release day_, and another stability patch released today.  I know this is becoming common practice in the gaming industry, but...seriously?  Two major stability patches in less than 24 hours? After spending more than _seven years _developing it?  And this is somehow _common practice_ in the industry?!
> 
> That's an expensive and overhyped Early Access game, not an official release.  They should be honest about that.  Most hardcore fans would buy it anyway and grit their teeth through the multiple patches, updates, bug fixes, and game crashes.  As tired as we are of waiting, plenty of us would prefer to wait another six months for a stable, complete, and you know, _finished_ version.



This has been standard practice in the industry for decades. And it's crap. They set a release date, get the buzz going in their pre-orders, and then rarely shift the release date - particularly as Xmas gets closer. Getting the product through the physical product generation and packing takes enough time that they have to have the base release ready well ahead of ship and release dates - knowing full well that it's still ferociously buggy. They count on that time lag between their official base release packing and the street date to generate downloadable patches to save the playability of the game when people actually install it on their consoles/PC hard drives.

This is one significant reason why there are people who never buy the .0 version of any software and why I usually wait to buy computer games for either my X-Box or iMac until many months after release (and when the prices go down).


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## TerraDave (Dec 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> They did.  In their day, Baldur's Gate games won how many awards?



A good game. Considered a classic. AAA? 

It is 15 on this list:









						Video Game, Released between 1998-01-01 and 1998-12-31 (Sorted by Popularity Ascending) - IMDb
					

IMDb's advanced search allows you to run extremely powerful queries over all people and titles in the database. Find exactly what you're looking for!




					www.imdb.com


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## Gradine (Dec 11, 2020)

This is why you always wait a few months after release to pick up AAA games.


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## CleverNickName (Dec 11, 2020)

Gradine said:


> This is why you always wait a few months after release to pick up AAA games.



It's also a reason to give AAA games a miss altogether.  I don't want to sound like a typical Portland hipster here,  but AAA studios are highly overrated.  Indie studios like Supergiant Games, Team Cherry, Klei, and Unknown Worlds (to name a few) are putting out some awesome games too, usually at lower cost and higher quality.


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## Tonguez (Dec 11, 2020)

Gradine said:


> This is why you always wait a few months after release to pick up AAA games.



I wait a year or so, when it goes into the clearance bin


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## trappedslider (Dec 11, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> It's also a reason to give AAA games a miss altogether.  I don't want to sound like a typical Portland hipster here,  but AAA studios are highly overrated.



Too late


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## CleverNickName (Dec 11, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> Too late



My point stands.


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## ruemere (Dec 11, 2020)

The game is apparently a glitch fest on older consoles and some PC setups.

I got lucky apparently (Nvidia card/Ryzen) on my modest PC - no bugs in sight. Still, there will be more patches, so everyone will get to play eventually.


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## trappedslider (Dec 11, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> My point stands.



And it's the same thing that gets told every time there's a fall on your face release from any of the big name publishers.


ruemere said:


> The game is apparently a glitch fest on older consoles and some PC setups.
> 
> I got lucky apparently (Nvidia card/Ryzen) on my modest PC - no bugs in sight. Still, there will be more patches, so everyone will get to play eventually.



I've only had the game crash on me twice so far, and other than some lag it's been fine. I've been having fun so far, I'm playing on my xbox one.


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## MarkB (Dec 11, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> I've only had the game crash on me twice so far, and other than some lag it's been fine. I've been having fun so far, I'm playing on my xbox one.



Pretty much the same experience on PS4. Yes, the crashes are annoying, but the game autosaves every few minutes so I haven't lost significant progress.


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## Imaculata (Dec 11, 2020)

I'll wait a few months till more bugs are fixed... and then I have to see if my pc can even run the thing. It is a heavy game. I am eager to play it though.


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## trappedslider (Dec 11, 2020)

Imaculata said:


> I'll wait a few months till more bugs are fixed... and then I have to see if my pc can even run the thing. It is a heavy game. I am eager to play it though.









the minimum is created with Low settings and 1080p gaming in mind and Recommended with High and 1080p. Cyberpunk 2077 System Requirements — Cyberpunk 2077 | Technical Support — CD PROJEKT RED


MarkB said:


> Pretty much the same experience on PS4. Yes, the crashes are annoying, but the game autosaves every few minutes so I haven't lost significant progress.



I also do a manual save


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## CleverNickName (Dec 11, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> And it's the same thing that gets told every time there's a fall on your face release from any of the big name publishers.



Imagine that: a highly-anticipated release turns out to be glitchy, unstable, and incomplete, and people complain about it.

So wouldn't the best solution be to insist on better releases from big name publishers?

It's not too much to ask.  Other studios do it, with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.


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## billd91 (Dec 11, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> So wouldn't the best solution be to insist on better releases from big name publishers?



Sure - but the only way to get them to stop (other than some kind of class action lawsuit over their defective products) is for people to stop ponying up to buy the games as preorders. If people waited for stability, we'd get more stable output.


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## GMMichael (Dec 11, 2020)

billd91 said:


> Sure - but the only way to get them to stop . . . is for people to stop ponying up to buy the games as preorders. If people waited for stability, we'd get more stable output.



Exactly.  If you pay for it, they'll keep doing it.



trappedslider said:


> the minimum is created with Low settings and 1080p gaming in mind and Recommended with High and 1080p. Cyberpunk 2077 System Requirements — Cyberpunk 2077 | Technical Support — CD PROJEKT RED



RT settings are...ray tracing?  I wouldn't be worried about performance if I were getting the PC version.  But for now, I'm happy to watch actual play videos on Youtube.


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## trappedslider (Dec 11, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> Imagine that: a highly-anticipated release turns out to be glitchy, unstable, and incomplete, and people complain about it.
> 
> So wouldn't the best solution be to insist on better releases from big name publishers?
> 
> It's not too much to ask.  Other studios do it, with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.



Lesser known studios unless you going looking or already aware of them.......

it's a cycle Ubisoft was hated on for the disastrous launch of Unity, EA for it's mess with SW, Beth with Fallout 76,Ubisoft again with Legion,and when The Witcher 3 was released it was barely playable from my understanding, once the game is stabilized and folks get past the issues currently hurting the game, the only time this will be brought up is the next release from cd projekt red or the next big name title that has a crappy launch. (Remember when X launched? etc) I honestly can't remember the last big triple A game that didn't require a day one update or patch. The last game i played that wasn't from a big name company was some mystery taxi driver game,i quit after about 2 hours..it wasn't that interesting.

And honestly, the whole thing just feels like an excuse for some gamers to show off smugness....


GMMichael said:


> Exactly.  If you pay for it, they'll keep doing it.
> 
> 
> RT settings are...ray tracing?  I wouldn't be worried about performance if I were getting the PC version.  But for now, I'm happy to watch actual play videos on Youtube.



Yeah, when the specs were originally released it was just a list of hardware for minimum and recommended, but the community wanted to know what hardware was required to play at 4k etc,and since the new big thing graphics wise is ray tracing.....


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## Umbran (Dec 11, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> Imagine that: a highly-anticipated release turns out to be glitchy, unstable, and incomplete, and people complain about it.
> 
> So wouldn't the best solution be to insist on better releases from big name publishers?
> 
> It's not too much to ask.  Other studios do it, with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.




Some other studios do it with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.  Others _fail_ to do it with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.  Being smaller is not a free tricket to higher reliability of release - we simply _don't care_ if a smaller project craps out, and don't generally hear about them.  So, our perceptions are open to a selection bias here.


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## CleverNickName (Dec 11, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Some other studios do it with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.  Others _fail_ to do it with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.  Being smaller is not a free tricket to higher reliability of release - we simply _don't care_ if a smaller project craps out, and don't generally hear about them.  So, our perceptions are open to a selection bias here.



This is also true.  Larger AAA studios can (and have) put out good first-release products.  Not all AAA studios are problematic, and not all indie studios are flawless.  But marketing for both will never be equal, so product visibility will never be equal.  I don't know about selection bias, but it certainly creates consumer expectations that can be difficult or impossible to deliver.

And all else being equal, overpromising seems to be more of a problem in AAA studios with huge marketing departments.  It's so common nowadays that people expect it and plan accordingly (just read the comments upthread).  It shouldn't be this way, but alas.


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## Gradine (Dec 11, 2020)

The best solution is actually for video game workers to be able to unionize. And for publishers to get more realistic about release dates. 

That said, the last few AAA games I've bothered to get have all been great fun, and that's been true for a while, even with early release bombs like the Thief reboot. I haven't played a bad AAA game since like... Final Fantasy XV. And before that Assassins Creed 3. Not that there haven't BEEN bad AAA games; it just becomes easier to tell a few months after the hype and glitches work themselves out.


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## Gradine (Dec 11, 2020)

Oh and seriously, if you are playing this yourself right now, do be careful of the part of the game that deliberately causes seizures. Stay safe


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## Sacrosanct (Dec 11, 2020)

I remember Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall.


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## CleverNickName (Dec 11, 2020)

Remember Microsoft Flight Simulator?  Ooof.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 11, 2020)

Sacrosanct said:


> I remember Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall.




 Anything by that studio. 

 Skipped Fallout 76 preorder loved 4. 

 Glad I did just gonna skip 76 altogether. 

 Never pre order or by a new console on release.


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## ruemere (Dec 11, 2020)

Also, I need to stress one thing. The detail level of the design of Cyberpunk 2077 is staggering. Whoever was behind it, they are a genius of hard work.
That's my char and my car near the beginning of the game. Note the bottles near the canisters.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 11, 2020)

ruemere said:


> Also, I need to stress one thing. The detail level of the design of Cyberpunk 2077 is staggering. Whoever was behind it, they are a genius of hard work.
> That's my char and my car near the beginning of the game. Note the bottles near the canisters.
> 
> View attachment 129977




 Reminds me a bit of GTAV that screenshot. Up near Trevor's place.


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## MGibster (Dec 11, 2020)

I don't typically purchase games when they're new but I just couldn't pass up on Cyberpunk.  I'm running it on a PC and other than a few graphical glitches it's running fine.  Sometimes when I'm in buildings I can see trees through the walls which is weird.  So far, it's a pretty good game.  I'm sad to say it beats any Cyberpunk campaign I ever ran back in the day.


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## MarkB (Dec 11, 2020)

Patch version 1.04 is out now. 17.7GB download for the PS4. I'll let it download rather than continuing tonight.

Looks like mostly some quest fixes and ease-of-life stuff, plus stability fixes. They've also turned down the flashing on the BrainDance sequences.


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## GMMichael (Dec 12, 2020)

17.7 GB!?  I've seen the PS4 version.  I hope there are higher resolution textures in there.


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## trappedslider (Dec 12, 2020)

GMMichael said:


> 17.7 GB!?  I've seen the PS4 version.  I hope there are higher resolution textures in there.



Here is the list of changes:


Spoiler



Quests
Fixed an issue with completing the final objective in Gig: Freedom of the Press.
Fixed an issue with starting conversation with Johnny at the end in Life During Wartime.
Corrected a rare issue with NPCs no longer calling V if A Like Supreme quest was abandoned mid-way.
Fixed an issue with Nix not going into his default state in Spellbound and KOLD MIRAGE.
Fixed issues blocking progress in I Fought The Law if the quest area is left.
Fixed inability to find Delamain in Epistrophy.
Fixed issues related to remaining in the second phase of the quest after finishing Pacifica fight with Ozob if played after Finals.
Fixed an issue with Nomads no longer present if V leaves the quest area mid-combat in With a Little Help from My Friends/Queen of the Highway.
Adjusted mappings and re-enabled quest tracker in M'ap Tann Pèlen/I Walk the Line/Transmission.
Fixed constraints on freedom to get up and sit down if neither blueline condition is met in Violence.
Fixed issues with time and space resulting from leaving the quest area or abandoning the quest in Following the River.
Fixed an issue with conversation with Johnny not starting after leaving the hotel in Tapeworm.
Fixed an issue with quest being blocked upon leaving the quest area before climbing the hill in Following the River.
Fixed the objective “Go into booth 9” not completing if the room’s entered too fast in Automatic Love.
Fixed Jackie’s issues with sitting still in The Ripperdoc.
Other quest fixes


Gameplay
Fixed the preview in weapon crafting.


Visual
Reduced vehicle appearance pop-in.
Speeded up switching first person perspective to third person perspective in a vehicle.
Fixed issues with animations missing from important quest NPCs during cinematics.


Performance & Stability
Improved stability, including various crash fixes.


Miscellaneous
Modified the flashing effect on braindances to reduce the risk of inducing epileptic symptoms. The effect has been smoothed out and the flashes reduced in frequency and magnitude.
Removed copyrighted songs incorrectly present in the game with "Disable Copyrighted Music" feature toggled on.


PC-specific
Switching language to default in the in-game settings now correctly sets it to the language of your Steam client.


Console-specific
Improved reflections quality on Xbox One and PlayStation 4 to eliminate the smudge effect.
Fixed “The Wasteland” achievement being stuck on 97% after completing all relevant missions in The Badlands on Xbox.
Fixed an issue with missing PT-BR VO for Xbox players in Americas.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 12, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> Imagine that: a highly-anticipated release turns out to be glitchy, unstable, and incomplete, and people complain about it.
> 
> So wouldn't the best solution be to insist on better releases from big name publishers?
> 
> It's not too much to ask.  Other studios do it, with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.



Well, at first people complain about delays: "But you said X! Then it was X+2 Months. Now it'S X +4 Months! We hate you!" In the mean while, pre-orders go up.
Then they release: "But this is just an alpha release at best! We hate you!" In the mean while, game breaks concurrent game logins on Steam.

Yeah, the game has technical problems. But fact is, a lot of people can finally play it and enjoy it and that's worth something to them. And they can still do that after a few free DLC releases and patch updates.

From a business perspective it's pretty obvious that people overrate "bug-free". That's important if you build controls for a nuclear reactor or a plane, because if things go side-ways, it will be really, really costly in terms of money and lives. For a game or other consume software, it really just needs to be good enough, the rest can be fixed later, while you have the product out, start earning money from it already, and have some people be happy because they can finally play it.


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## GreyLord (Dec 13, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> the minimum is created with Low settings and 1080p gaming in mind and Recommended with High and 1080p. Cyberpunk 2077 System Requirements — Cyberpunk 2077 | Technical Support — CD PROJEKT RED
> 
> I also do a manual save



Interesting.  It actually runs on a GTX 780 or a Radeon RX 470.

I had refrained from getting it on PC because I thought my gaming rig just barely met the minimums (I7, ([actually turns out it is 16] Gigs RAM, Nvidia 2060) and that my other backup Rig (I5, 8 GIG RAM, 1650) wouldn't run it at all.


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## trappedslider (Dec 14, 2020)




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## Istbor (Dec 14, 2020)

If you think this game is problematic and frustrating, don't play Star Citizen...


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## Sacrosanct (Dec 14, 2020)

Incidentally, everyone I know who has tried to return it with digital purchases are being told by Sony that they won't do it because it's been downloaded.  So it looks like you're screwed.

Incidentally, my biggest issue is the menu interface.  A floating curser is the worst thing you can do to navigate menus on a console.  Breakpoint did that and it was awful.  Same here.  On consoles, you should be able to tab through menu options via a button, not a free floating curser


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## MarkB (Dec 14, 2020)

Sacrosanct said:


> Incidentally, everyone I know who has tried to return it with digital purchases are being told by Sony that they won't do it because it's been downloaded.  So it looks like you're screwed.
> 
> Incidentally, my biggest issue is the menu interface.  A floating curser is the worst thing you can do to navigate menus on a console.  Breakpoint did that and it was awful.  Same here.  On consoles, you should be able to tab through menu options via a button, not a free floating curser



I agree, but they do at least enable D-pad selection on some of them.

It's very much not a finished game. It's a very good game, and I'm enjoying it, but it's not finished.

My own biggest frustration is that, when driving, the minimap is too low-scale to show you the upcoming turns ahead of time, so you wind up having to constantly split your attention between the map and the view ahead. They need to either zoom out the minimap when driving so that you can just glance at it occasionally to see when the next turn is coming up, or else put some navigation indicators onto the main HUD.


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## payn (Dec 14, 2020)

Warning, my bug experiences have quadrupled after the massive 1.04 update. 

Im 8 hours in and here are my thoughts on CP2077
Not as good a city crime sim as GTA
Not as good a body aug sim as Deus Ex
Story is not quite as good as either of those.
CP2077 is a fun game, but doesnt really impress. It's fun, but not the cyberpunk game of your dreams.


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## Imaculata (Dec 14, 2020)

I remember what Shadow of Mordor was like on PS3; one of the worst ports to an older generation console I have ever seen. It was unplayable, stripped of half its content, crashed constantly, and never ran at an acceptable framerate. I imagine Cyberpunk on PS4 is a lot like that. If I get the game, it will be either on pc, or on PS5... if I get my hands on a PS5 first.


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## MarkB (Dec 14, 2020)

Imaculata said:


> I remember what Shadow of Mordor was like on PS3; one of the worst ports to an older generation console I have ever seen. It was unplayable, stripped of half its content, crashed constantly, and never ran at an acceptable framerate. I imagine Cyberpunk on PS4 is a lot like that. If I get the game, it will be either on pc, or on PS5... if I get my hands on a PS5 first.



One of the nice things about the game is that they did make it very clear ahead of time that if you buy it on PS4, then upgrade to PS5, you can then use the game on PS5 without buying it again. But yeah, actually getting your hands on a PS5 is the tricky part at the moment.


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## trappedslider (Dec 14, 2020)

I swear i had nothing to do with that parking job or the flames...


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## trappedslider (Dec 14, 2020)

Sacrosanct said:


> Incidentally, my biggest issue is the menu interface.  A floating curser is the worst thing you can do to navigate menus on a console.  Breakpoint did that and it was awful.  Same here.  On consoles, you should be able to tab through menu options via a button, not a free floating curser



I play on my xbox, but I'm used to using the R-stick like a mouse basically. Unlike The Sims 4 or Cities: Skylines, it feels natural and easy to use at least for me.


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## embee (Dec 14, 2020)

I'm not getting it for a variety of reasons.

1) Yeah - pissing off the LGBTQ+ crowd. My sib is TG. They were excited for the game until they heard about (a) the transphobic billboards ingame and (b) that a game set in a genre all about transhumanism, the gender options aren't there. Representation matters. 

They had their wallet open. And this made my sib close their wallet.

2) Piss-poor optimization. Recommending a 30xx series for RT in this game is absurd. The first 30xx card didn't come out until this September and immediately sold out. You can't buy them for anything approaching a reasonable cost. 

Just don't bother with the "feature" at all and focus instead on getting it to run smoothly on anything else.

3) Glitches galore. It took CDPR ages to iron out Witcher 3 for the PC. It'll take ages for this one too. Because sometimes past performance is an indicator of future performance. And shafting the last (or current depending on your POV) is supremely effed up. The PS5 came out a month ago. PS5 and XBX are having supply chain difficulties. So, realistically speaking, the only way to play on console is on PS4 or XB1-whatever. 

What's the point of punishing your coders with crunch if its still going to be buggy AF on release day?

4) Seizures. They literally put the exact light pattern used by neurologists to induce seizures into the game. Not cool. I say that as someone who's brother died from a seizure. 

Sorry but this game is a hard pass for me. I'll just have to settle for playing Cyberpunk Red on tabletop.


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## CleverNickName (Dec 14, 2020)

@embee Yikes.  I had heard some noise online about #1 on your list, but I didn't know it was that prevalent.  Billboards, seriously?  (To your second point, I agree, representation matters.)  And #4 is inexcusable, especially if it was deliberate...photosensitivity seizures are not new in the video game industry.  It's hard to believe that a studio of that size would do something that dumb, on purpose.

But it was #2 and #3 that made me pump the brakes on getting this game.  I'd rather have multiple delays and reschedulings for a complete product, than deal with multiple bug fixes and patches for a rushed one.  Maybe I'm just old-fashioned (or just old), but that's how I prefer to do business.

(Knowing more about #1 and #4 isn't helping, either.)


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## embee (Dec 14, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> @embee Yikes.  I had heard some noise online about #1 on your list, but I didn't know it was that prevalent.  Billboards, seriously?  (To your second point, I agree, representation matters.)




Last year, they pissed off a lot of people with the ChroManticore ad, which commoditizes and fetishizes trans people. And the only way to have a character with a "female" voice is to choose the "female" body (and vice-versa for "male"). Again, one of the central aspects of cyberpunk is transhumanism. So to lock down gender like this is tone-deaf to say the least.


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## trappedslider (Dec 14, 2020)

embee said:


> Last year, they pissed off a lot of people with the ChroManticore ad, which commoditizes and fetishizes trans people. And the only way to have a character with a "female" voice is to choose the "female" body (and vice-versa for "male"). Again, one of the central aspects of cyberpunk is transhumanism. So to lock down gender like this is tone-deaf to say the least.



huh, i could have sworn that my voice choice was independent of body during character creation....


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## embee (Dec 14, 2020)

Only deep-voiced characters can be identified as male, while higher-pitched characters are identified as female. The pronouns are tied to the voice, not your actual gender selection.


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## trappedslider (Dec 14, 2020)

Then I misunderstood what you meant


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## Imaculata (Dec 14, 2020)

I've seen a few people play through the start of the game, exploring each of the life paths. In every one of those playthroughs there were glitches. Not gameplay or progression breaking bugs, but immersion breaking ones. It would seem you don't have to play long at all to encounter them, you run into npc's stuck in T-pose quite early into the game. That is just sloppy, but they decided to ship the game in that state anyway. Inexcusable.


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## Janx (Dec 14, 2020)

imagining a future where bugs get fixed, I'm looking at my wife's 3 year old gaming machine and her desire to play CP.

She's got a Nvidia GTX 1060 on a 1080P television (biggest screen in the house).  Good news is, we don't need higher resolution, so a weaker card just needs to deliver frames at an easier screen size.

Will that card be enough?

What card would be enough?  I've seen the GTX1660 (super or non?) is the spiritual successor, but it ain't a hundred bucks if you know what I mean.

Recommendations?


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## CleverNickName (Dec 14, 2020)

@Janx, the "Recommended" specs for CP2077 are a resolution of 1080p, and a GTX 1060 video card...so your television and graphics card should be good enough for the recommended settings.  (source)

Apparently having a solid state hard drive makes a huge difference in performance, too.


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## Gradine (Dec 14, 2020)

Have they fixed all the glitches where the player's, err... _parts_ keep clipping through clothes?


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## MarkB (Dec 15, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> I swear i had nothing to do with that parking job or the flames...View attachment 130123



When I called my car in the parking lot outside a Badlands motel, it drove up, phased halfway through one of those concrete barriers, and stopped.

Then I walked up to it, and the game suddenly remembered that the barrier was a physics object. My car flipped over, landed on its roof on the barrier, then a few seconds later it exploded.


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## trappedslider (Dec 15, 2020)

MarkB said:


> When I called my car in the parking lot outside a Badlands motel, it drove up, phased halfway through one of those concrete barriers, and stopped.
> 
> Then I walked up to it, and the game suddenly remembered that the barrier was a physics object. My car flipped over, landed on its roof on the barrier, then a few seconds later it exploded.



I wasn't sure if cars could explode, but after numerous hours in this game and GTA online, i can conclusively say i suck at driving lol


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## trappedslider (Dec 15, 2020)




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## Janx (Dec 15, 2020)

MarkB said:


> When I called my car in the parking lot outside a Badlands motel, it drove up, phased halfway through one of those concrete barriers, and stopped.
> 
> Then I walked up to it, and the game suddenly remembered that the barrier was a physics object. My car flipped over, landed on its roof on the barrier, then a few seconds later it exploded.



Your car was hacked. Just be glad you weren't in it


----------



## Umbran (Dec 15, 2020)

MarkB said:


> ...then a few seconds later it exploded.


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 15, 2020)

embee said:


> Only deep-voiced characters can be identified as male, while higher-pitched characters are identified as female. The pronouns are tied to the voice, not your actual gender selection.



I'm on PS4, and when I got the game and started on 12/11, it allowed me to scroll through options of a male body with a vagina and a feminine voice.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 15, 2020)

Sacrosanct said:


> I'm on PS4, and when I got the game and started on 12/11, it allowed me to scroll through options of a male body with a vagina and a feminine voice.



not just one choice for the vagina, but i think the bigger and more important issue is the that you can't choose which pronouns are used.


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 15, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> not just one choice for the vagina, but i think the bigger and more important issue is the that you can't choose which pronouns are used.



As an aside, I thought it odd that you could choose your genitalia style, but you can't adjust your body size or mass.


----------



## Imaculata (Dec 15, 2020)

MarkB said:


> When I called my car in the parking lot outside a Badlands motel, it drove up, phased halfway through one of those concrete barriers, and stopped.
> 
> Then I walked up to it, and the game suddenly remembered that the barrier was a physics object. My car flipped over, landed on its roof on the barrier, then a few seconds later it exploded.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 15, 2020)

Sacrosanct said:


> As an aside, I thought it odd that you could choose your genitalia style, but you can't adjust your body size or mass.



personally, i would have liked fallout 4's ability to shape your face etc, but then I think we'd see all kinds of Keanu and other cyberpunk versions of celebrities lol.


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> A friend of mine is playing it on XBox, and he's pretty frustrated with the glitches and performance.  Another friend of mine is playing on PlayStation, and he had to restart his game twice because of updates trashing his save file.  I haven't heard from any of my friends who are playing it on PC, but apparently the PC version is the most stable of the three.  No surprise there, I guess.
> 
> There was a patch _on release day_, and another stability patch released today.  I know this is becoming common practice in the gaming industry, but...seriously?  Two major stability patches in less than 24 hours? After spending more than _seven years _developing it?  And this is somehow _common practice_ in the industry?!
> 
> That's an expensive and overhyped Early Access game, not an official release.  They should be honest about that.  Most hardcore fans would buy it anyway and grit their teeth through the multiple patches, updates, bug fixes, and game crashes.  As tired as we are of waiting, plenty of us would prefer to wait another six months for a stable, complete, and you know, _finished_ version.



I think you underestimate the incredible complexity of a modern AAA game. 

This isn’t some lazy developers decision being made, it’s the result of insanely complex systems that just aren’t going to show all their faults without an amount of testing that no studio can afford to do before launch.


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

Gradine said:


> And before that Assassins Creed 3



What!?

AssCreed3 is one of the best in the series.


----------



## Gradine (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> What!?
> 
> AssCreed3 is one of the best in the series.



I loved the first four games, but AC3 completely killed my interest in the series. The historical moments felt so forced and hackneyed, Conner was boring, the final confrontation was a total letdown. I just didn't enjoy any of it. 

The ships were fun though


----------



## billd91 (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> I think you underestimate the incredible complexity of a modern AAA game.
> 
> This isn’t some lazy developers decision being made, it’s the result of insanely complex systems that just aren’t going to show all their faults without an amount of testing that no studio can afford to do before launch.



No - what no studio *will choose to afford* before launch. But then, from too many development managers' points of view, quality cuts into the bottom line.


----------



## billd91 (Dec 16, 2020)

Gradine said:


> I loved the first four games, but AC3 completely killed my interest in the series. The historical moments felt so forced and hackneyed, Conner was boring, the final confrontation was a total letdown. I just didn't enjoy any of it.
> 
> The ships were fun though



You sure you're not thinking of AC4: Black Flag? AC3 was the one set in the colonial US. 
And AC4 was the one that sold me on AC in the first place. AC3 is, by comparison, not grabbing me at all.


----------



## CleverNickName (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> I think you underestimate the incredible complexity of a modern AAA game.
> 
> This isn’t some lazy developers decision being made, it’s the result of insanely complex systems that just aren’t going to show all their faults without an amount of testing that no studio can afford to do before launch.



I think it's more about how much they feel they can get away with...you know, how many bugs and patches are their fans willing to forgive in exchange for a $60 purchase price and a "before Christmas" release date.  Makes me wonder what percentage of a AAA game's budget gets spent on playtesting, and what percentage is spent on marketing.

Some fans are extremely forgiving and others, not so much.  And as long as the former are louder than the latter, it probably won't change.


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> I think it's more about how much they feel they can get away with...you know, how many bugs and patches are their fans willing to forgive in exchange for a $60 purchase price and a "before Christmas" release date.  Makes me wonder what percentage of a AAA game's budget gets spent on playtesting, and what percentage is spent on marketing.
> 
> Some fans are extremely forgiving and others, not so much.  And as long as the former are louder than the latter, it probably won't change.



That is an incredibly cynical point of view. Far more likely, is it just isn’t feasible to take extra years to test an effectively complete game that you’ve found all the obvious bugs in, especially when a few hundred thousand fans will find the same bugs in hours that would take a small team of play testers months, at least, to find.

It’s likely that the games that launch without any meaningful bugs or issues are simply lucky.


----------



## Gradine (Dec 16, 2020)

billd91 said:


> You sure you're not thinking of AC4: Black Flag? AC3 was the one set in the colonial US.
> And AC4 was the one that sold me on AC in the first place. AC3 is, by comparison, not grabbing me at all.



Yes, I am thinking of AC3. I heard good things about Black Flag but I never ended picking it back up


----------



## Imaculata (Dec 16, 2020)

I work in game development, and how it usually works is this:

The producer and game director make sure development remains on schedule, and decide when certain milestones should be reached. Once the game nears completion, a deadline is set, and a certain amount of time is set aside for QA testing and bug fixing. The amount of time set aside for this is mostly a financial decision, because the producer has a release date in mind (such as, before xmas, or before half the team goes on holiday).

During the final phase, game breaking bugs and progression blocking issues are fixed first. It is extremely rare to ship a game without any bugs, but at the bare minimum, the game should not crash, and it should be playable from beginning to end.

It seems to me that CDProject Red understandably wanted to make the xmas deadline, and capitalize on the release of the new generation of consoles. They had already pulled some crunch to finish the game, and now it had to be released, no matter what state the game was in. It is unfortunate that they didn't push the deadline into next year, to fix some of the bugs a lot of players are running into now.

I know what it is like to fix bugs during the final crunch period of game development. Lots of employees pull all-nighters to get it all done, and you know you won't be able to fix everything. I don't presume malice here. As people are tired and stressed out, sometimes someone will submit the wrong build of the game, or accidentally reintroduce a bug that was fixed. Eventually you run out of time to retest everything again. Some bugs may only occur on ps4, ps5 or xbox. Plus every new build has to be submitted to Sony and Microsoft first, who then also have to approve it. It is not a matter of simply pushing out a fix. There are lots of steps in between. Compiling the game in between submissions costs a lot of time, and baking the levels every time someone makes a change costs a ton of time too. Bug fixing is tiresome and time consuming. You can't spend another year on fixing every bug, and you hope to fix most of the worst bugs before release. But as people do crunch, they get tired, and become more prone to making mistakes, which again costs more time. At some point you just have to ship the game, no matter what state it is in.

What they attempted to do here is make a really complex game, and it turned out to be more work than they anticipated. This is not some greedy cash grab. I know some of the people that worked on this personally. This is the final product after months of stress, hard labor and passion. It is a shame that many players are frustrated and won't see it that way. I'm sure the developers are equally disappointed. The last thing they wanted was for players to experience the game like this.


----------



## Umbran (Dec 16, 2020)

billd91 said:


> No - what no studio *will choose to afford* before launch. But then, from too many development managers' points of view, quality cuts into the bottom line.




Not in my experience.  When software is buggy, the first person to take crap for it is.. the dev manager.  If there's a decision to skimp on QA for time/money's sake, that's generally forced on the Dev Manger, not originating from them.


----------



## payn (Dec 16, 2020)

Any reasonable person understands that games, particularly complex ones, are going to have launch bugs. Bugs are annoying but if you can get past the irritation you can still see the game for what it its and have a fair perspective on it. That said, CP2077 has more bugs than I have experienced from any launch of a AAA title. I understand the devs worked hard on this, im not giving them any hell over it, but its clear this launch wasnt ready for primetime. A decision I doubt the devs had any control over.


----------



## Janx (Dec 16, 2020)

Umbran said:


> Not in my experience.  When software is buggy, the first person to take crap for it is.. the dev manager.  If there's a decision to skimp on QA for time/money's sake, that's generally forced on the Dev Manger, not originating from them.



Pretty much.  Unless they're blind, everybody on the inside a project  can see the bug lists and problems when they run it.  They all would like more time to work on it. Up to and including infinite time (you can fix bugs forever, it turns out).

It's the people outside that circle who want to make money, pay the bills who say "No, we need to ship it and make some money." Executive types make that call.

CD Project Red hasn't released anything big since The Witcher 3.  Maybe the Gwent game made them some easy coin, but they were probably bleeding cash to make CP. Exactly the kind of pressure to release a game before its really ready.


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 16, 2020)

Imaculata said:


> I work in game development, and how it usually works is this:
> 
> The producer and game director make sure development remains on schedule, and decide when certain milestones should be reached. Once the game nears completion, a deadline is set, and a certain amount of time is set aside for QA testing and bug fixing. The amount of time set aside for this is mostly a financial decision, because the producer has a release date in mind (such as, before xmas, or before half the team goes on holiday).
> 
> ...



I don't work in game development, but I do work in software development for a large company (I used to be a tester for years, but my current role is a Product Owner for an Agile scrum team), and my experiences pretty much align with this.  We just finished a project on 12/8.  Deployment date?  12/10.  That's unheard of to be working on code that late into the game.  Technically we were past hard code freeze date, but you do what you gotta do for high profile projects.

There is never enough time for testing.  Ever.  And you will always be scrambling to meet deadlines.  High sev show stoppers get the attention, and the rest may go out with the final deployment.   I've heard that in the gaming industry, the environment is even worse for testers and devs to get things done, and they are often treated poorly.


----------



## MarkB (Dec 16, 2020)

Janx said:


> Pretty much.  Unless they're blind, everybody on the inside a project  can see the bug lists and problems when they run it.  They all would like more time to work on it. Up to and including infinite time (you can fix bugs forever, it turns out).
> 
> It's the people outside that circle who want to make money, pay the bills who say "No, we need to ship it and make some money." Executive types make that call.
> 
> CD Project Red hasn't released anything big since The Witcher 3.  Maybe the Gwent game made them some easy coin, but they were probably bleeding cash to make CP. Exactly the kind of pressure to release a game before its really ready.



Plus it was literally the most anticipated game of the year by a wide margin, which means that they were also under enormous pressure from the retailers and the general public.


----------



## MGibster (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> That is an incredibly cynical point of view. Far more likely, is it just isn’t feasible to take extra years to test an effectively complete game that you’ve found all the obvious bugs in, especially when a few hundred thousand fans will find the same bugs in hours that would take a small team of play testers months, at least, to find.



Given the abominable behavior of many game companies that includes microtransactions, introducing problems to the game you can solve by making micro purchases, gambling in the form of loot boxes, the abhorrent treatment of their employees, and their habit of releasing broken software, I'd say the cynical point of view is quite reasonable in this case.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 16, 2020)

payn said:


> That said, CP2077 has more bugs than I have experienced from any launch of a AAA title.



Missed AC: Unity or Fallout 76 then? lol


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 16, 2020)

Cyberpunk 2077 publisher says it took the ‘wrong approach’ with PS4, Xbox One versions
					

Studio executives answered investor questions during a conference call




					www.polygon.com
				





Cyberpunk 2077 publisher says it took the ‘wrong approach’ with PS4, Xbox One versions​
Studio executives answered investor questions during a conference call


Top executives at _Cyberpunk 2077_ developer CD Projekt Red spoke to investors Tuesday to address the game’s recent rocky release. CD Projekt co-CEO Adam Kiciński told the group that the company’s management board was “too focused on releasing the game” and underestimated the scale of _Cyberpunk 2077_’s problems, according to a transcript of the call.

“We ignored signals about the need for additional time to refine the game on the base last-gen consoles,” Kiciński said. “It was the wrong approach and against our business philosophy.”


_Cyberpunk 2077_ was released on Dec. 10. Reviewers, including Polygon, were issued early release codes ahead of launch — but only on Windows PC, where the game runs best. Reviews were mixed, but many cited a large number of bugs even on Windows PC. Those bugs, however, were little compared to how the game ran on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. Problems run the gamut from unplayable, game-breaking issues to silly bugs.

Michał Nowakowski, CD Projekt’s senior vice president of business development, reiterated that the management team didn’t address last-gen console issues well enough. When asked about how _Cyberpunk 2077 _got through Microsoft and Sony’s console certification process, Nowakowski said he assumed that the two companies trusted CD Projekt Red would fix the game ahead of launch.

“Obviously, that did not come together exactly as he had planned,” he added. Nowakowski said updates will come in December, January, and February — with the “larger improvements” slated for the latter two months. Players shouldn’t expect the console versions to look or run like the Windows PC version, however: “That definitely isn’t going to happen,” Nowakowski said.

“I’m not saying it’s going to be a bad game — but if you’re [_sic_] expectations regarding, say, visuals or other performance angle, are like this, then we’re openly stating that’s not going to be the case,” he said. “It will be a good, playable, stable game, without glitches and crashes, though. That’s the intention.”


Co-CEO Marcin Iwiński added that he hopes players will be able to enjoy the experience on consoles “by Christmas,” noting that the major updates are coming after that.

On Monday, CD Projekt Red apologized to players on Monday for not showing last-gen console footage — “not allowing [players] to make a more informed decision about [their] purchase.” In that note, published on Twitter, CD Projekt Red said players can get refunds for their game by contacting Microsoft or Sony. Some players have reported that the console makers are denying refunds. Some believed that CD Projekt Red’s message implied that refunds would be guaranteed, but the developer clarified in Tuesday’s conference call that it has no special arrangement with Microsoft or Sony regarding refunds. To get a refund on a purchase, it must meet the requirements set up via the particular storefront. For instance, Sony’s policy is that players can get a refund on purchases made within 14 days, _if_ the software hasn’t been downloaded. Valve’s Steam storefront is similar — refunds are available for games purchased within a 14-day time frame, though it allows for two hours of play time.

During the call, CD Projekt Red did not address criticism of the developer’s mandatory “crunch” period, nor did it comment on ongoing accusations of transphobia. The full transcript of the call is available online.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 16, 2020)

On my way to perform a hostile takeover


----------



## embee (Dec 16, 2020)

CleverNickName said:


> Imagine that: a highly-anticipated release turns out to be glitchy, unstable, and incomplete, and people complain about it.
> 
> So wouldn't the best solution be to insist on better releases from big name publishers?
> 
> It's not too much to ask.  Other studios do it, with fewer people, shorter schedules, and smaller budgets.




But then you would probably have to increase the price. And the first rule of video games is that "No video game shall ever have a base price of more than $60."

(_And don't you_ *DARE* _bring up the fact that using CPI Inflation, a game that in 2000 cost $60 should, today, cost more than $90!_)


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

Gradine said:


> I loved the first four games, but AC3 completely killed my interest in the series. The historical moments felt so forced and hackneyed, Conner was boring, the final confrontation was a total letdown. I just didn't enjoy any of it.
> 
> The ships were fun though



Damn. Conner was boring, to you? The final confrontation was a letdown!? 

I can't even imagine how someone could play the same game I played and have this experience, its so very much the opposite of my own experience. 

Conner was perhaps the only likeable, interesting, genuinely sympathetic, protagonist of any AssCreed I've played, having lost interest trying to finish Black Flag, which was only worth playing for a couple side characters and the ship combat. 

The final confrontation was worthy of the series finale of a really good dark HBO drama. The gameplay wasn't the focus of it at all, but I was fine with that, having invested in the conflict between the characters. 

The weak point of the game was, as is usually the case with these games, the historical characters. But the game showed the founder's hypocrisy and dishonesty better than any media concerning the revolution that I've ever seen. 

The only thing that was disappointing to me in the game was the parkour, due to the architecture of the setting. The trees help a bit, as does going through buildings, but yeah, AC2 had the best parkour, by far. 

Ah, well. We all experience things differently. To me, AC3 is the only one of the Desmond AC games that tells a truly compelling story, rather than just a decent story that moves the fun parkour assassin game forward but doesn't do much else.


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

billd91 said:


> No - what no studio *will choose to afford* before launch. But then, from too many development managers' points of view, quality cuts into the bottom line.



The market won't bear price increases, and QA testers get paid. It's not a real choice, because there aren't multiple viable options.

Most AAA games today require thousands upon thousands of people-hours of playtesting to find all the potentially broken system interactions, which simply cannot be completely done pre-launch.

Not to mention, there is nothing _wrong_ with how things are. This isn't 1992. You aren't buying a disk that is the state of the game as it will always be unless you purchase a second copy in the form of a game of the year or special edition version.

The bugs tend to be worked out within a week of launch. Whining about that is...unreasonable.

EDIT: okay, there is plenty wrong with the video game industry. this just isn't an example.


----------



## MGibster (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> The bugs tend to be worked out within a week of launch. Whining about that is...unreasonable.
> 
> EDIT: okay, there is plenty wrong with the video game industry. this just isn't an example.



I think the complaints are valid.  But so long as people keep buying games pre-order or at launch they've got to accept the awful truth that they're part of the problem.  I don't typically purchase games at launch but I did Cyberpunk.  While it's not a horrible game, I don't think it would have hurt me to have waited.


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

MGibster said:


> I think the complaints are valid.  But so long as people keep buying games pre-order or at launch they've got to accept the awful truth that they're part of the problem.  I don't typically purchase games at launch but I did Cyberpunk.  While it's not a horrible game, I don't think it would have hurt me to have waited.



I personally won't be purchasing AAA games until things like mandatory crunch time and other worker abuses end, but I disagree on this. The purchasers aren't part of why games are released with bugs. It happens because the game has to come out at some point or it becomes a loss, and AQ testers are costly.


----------



## Imaculata (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> Most AAA games today require thousands upon thousands of people-hours of playtesting to find all the potentially broken system interactions, which simply cannot be completely done pre-launch.



This is true. Most triple AAA videogame companies outsource a chunk of the QA testing, while also doing a ton of internal QA testing themselves. Towards the final crunch, coders and artists may be asked to jump in and test as well, and even then it can be hard to find and fix everything before the deadline. I have been in that position myself, where me, one of the artists, and a coder were testing deep into the night. It was around midnight when we all went home. It wasn't a horrible experience though, since everyone was passionate about what they were making. Being so close to completion of a game you've worked on for years is very exciting. I can only imagine the disappointment the team at CDPR is feeling right now, after all that hard work.

Of course that doesn't excuse the poor PS4 and Xbox versions of the game, but that is on upper management, not the development team.


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

Imaculata said:


> This is true. Most triple AAA videogame companies outsource a chunk of the QA testing, while also doing a ton of internal QA testing themselves. Towards the final crunch, coders and artists may be asked to jump in and test as well, and even then it can be hard to find and fix everything before the deadline. I have been in that position myself, where me, one of the artists, and a coder were testing deep into the night. It was around midnight when we all went home. It wasn't a horrible experience though, since everyone was passionate about what they were making. Being so close to completion of a game you've worked on for years is very exciting. I can only imagine the disappointment the team at CDPR is feeling right now, after all that hard work.
> 
> Of course that doesn't excuse the poor PS4 and Xbox versions of the game, but that is on upper management, not the development team.



Yeah the console situation is just bad. Jeeeez.


----------



## MGibster (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> I personally won't be purchasing AAA games until things like mandatory crunch time and other worker abuses end, but I disagree on this. The purchasers aren't part of why games are released with bugs. It happens because the game has to come out at some point or it becomes a loss, and AQ testers are costly.



I don't necessarily mind a few bugs.  Even after a few years, Witcher 3 _still_ has bugs. But when the bugs are so bad your company's value plummets and people are demanding refunds it's indicative of a problem.


----------



## Gradine (Dec 16, 2020)

CDPR's storefront Good Old Games stepped in it today when they said they were going to post for sale the Taiwanese game *Devotion*, and then almost immediately retracted it, presumably due to pressure from the Chinese government.


----------



## billd91 (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> The market won't bear price increases, and QA testers get paid. It's not a real choice, because there aren't multiple viable options.
> 
> Most AAA games today require thousands upon thousands of people-hours of playtesting to find all the potentially broken system interactions, which simply cannot be completely done pre-launch.
> 
> ...



No, this is very much an example of what's wrong with the game industry. QAers are badly exploited. There are horror stories galore. AAA producers have been saddling early buyers with buggy product for years, even to the point Motley Fool was warning investors about EA back in 2014 because of their QA issues and buggy releases.

Examples:








						Inside Rockstar Games' Culture Of Crunch
					

In the final year of development on Red Dead Redemption 2, the upcoming Western game, the top directors decided to add black bars to the top and bottom of every non-interactive cutscene in hopes of making those scenes feel more cinematic, like an old-school cowboy film. Everyone agreed it was...




					kotaku.com
				











						What It’s Really Like to Be a QA Tester - EGM
					

QA is one of the most vital jobs in game development. For many workers, it’s also the worst.




					egmnow.com
				











						Quality Assured: What It’s Really Like To Test Games For A Living
					

There’s an old commercial for Westwood College that’s become something of a running joke in the video game world. Two young men sit at a couch, hammering away at PlayStation controllers. A woman walks in. “Hey guys, finish testing that game yet?” she asks. “I’ve got another one I need designed.”




					kotaku.com
				











						Why are so many video games broken at launch? | Engadget
					

Allow me to begin with my very best Andy Rooney impersonation: When I was growing up, there was no such thing as a "day one patch." I went to Video Station on Saturday with my parents -- if I was lucky -- and came home with a single rented game for the weekend.




					www.engadget.com
				











						Buggy games deserve much harsher treatment
					

Recently, my smartphone started acting up. I think the battery is on the way out; it does bizarre things, like shutting…




					www.gamesindustry.biz
				




The fact that this isn't 1992 shouldn't really matter. But the game companies are counting on the ability to deliver day one patches to shore up their games' playability and the company's reputation (not to mention profit margins and stock prices). And a better QA process that includes more time/less crunch and more stakeholders as QAers rather than contractors as well as consumers willing to demand better rather than pony up the cash for the preorder


----------



## doctorbadwolf (Dec 16, 2020)

billd91 said:


> No, this is very much an example of what's wrong with the game industry. QAers are badly exploited. There are horror stories galore. AAA producers have been saddling early buyers with buggy product for years, even to the point Motley Fool was warning investors about EA back in 2014 because of their QA issues and buggy releases.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> ...



You're conflating two separate issues. Ending the poor conditions for QA testers wouldn't create a situation wherein games are released in comparable time frames with fewer bugs at the same cost to the consumer. AAA games as we expect them today would either stop being a thing, get much more expensive, or become rarer because only a few studios can afford to take twice as long to make a game. 

The QA process cannot reliably find all the potential catastrophic system interactions (what cause bugs) that exist in a game as complex and enormous as most AAA games, in a financially viable amount of time. That is not a result of the abuses of the game industry, which I need no lesson on, thanks.


----------



## Deset Gled (Dec 16, 2020)

doctorbadwolf said:


> The market won't bear price increases, and QA testers get paid. It's not a real choice, because there aren't multiple viable options.
> 
> Most AAA games today require thousands upon thousands of people-hours of playtesting to find all the potentially broken system interactions, which simply cannot be completely done pre-launch.
> 
> ...




From the POV of the individual consumer, I understand and relate to what you are saying.

For the major game publishers who claim these things, this reminds me of Erik Cartman explaining Crack Baby Basketball: "I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down."


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 16, 2020)

*MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD ABOUT THE GENERAL STATE OF THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY*

So, there's a bike in the game that's modeled on Kaneda's bike in Akira and it's named Motoko Kusanagi as in the Major from GitS. ^_^ There's also a data shard called Cyberpunk 2020 Rulebook,but it's just a paragraph taken from the game.


----------



## Umbran (Dec 17, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> *MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD ABOUT THE GENERAL STATE OF THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY*




*Mod Note:*

I'm sorry, but topic drift happens.  Shouting at people about it isn't appropriate.


----------



## MGibster (Dec 17, 2020)

Johnny Silverhand is an naughty word.


----------



## Imaculata (Dec 17, 2020)

My pc spend two days downloading Cyberpunk via Steam. Today I finally get to play it... CRASH! Didn't even make it to the main menu.

Apparently there is currently an issue on the Steam version of the game, where the game will flatline due to one problematic file. You can make Steam verify the file cache of the game, to hopefully fix the issue. However, this is a very slow progress, and the game will need to redownload a 7gb file. And for the record, this solution did NOT fix the issue for me... the game still crashes immediately.


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 17, 2020)

Imaculata said:


> My pc spend two days downloading Cyberpunk via Steam. Today I finally get to play it... CRASH! Didn't even make it to the main menu.
> 
> Apparently there is currently an issue on the Steam version of the game, where the game will flatline due to one problematic file. You can make Steam verify the file cache of the game, to hopefully fix the issue. However, this is a very slow progress, and the game will need to redownload a 7gb file. And for the record, this solution did NOT fix the issue for me... the game still crashes immediately.




That's what happened to me with Sword Coast Legends when it came out.  My Steam version would always crash after the title loading.  It's incredibly frustrating.


----------



## Morrus (Dec 17, 2020)

I’m a couple hours in on PS4 and haven’t seen any issues yet.


----------



## payn (Dec 17, 2020)

MGibster said:


> Johnny Silverhand is an naughty word.



I know, I love it!


----------



## Sacrosanct (Dec 17, 2020)

Morrus said:


> I’m a couple hours in on PS4 and haven’t seen any issues yet.




I'm only about 3 hours into PS4 and have only seen minor issues.  Non lootable objects that should be (items, weapon drops, etc).  So nothing major.

Apparently Adam Czinski (sp) made a statement about how management didn't fully understand the scope of the issues.  As a former test and now a product owner in testing, I call BS.  I'm sure @Imaculata will probably back this up, but I _guarantee _you that management were told of these issues and concerns and just ignored the testing and dev team.


----------



## Imaculata (Dec 17, 2020)

Oh yes, they knew.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 17, 2020)

I am playing the game on a PC (not right now, obviously, for some inane reason I needed to visit EN World before I launch the game today, i should be playing!) with i7-7700, an SSD and GeForce GTX 1070. Seems to be running fine. Some glitches, but no crashes. I think the biggest issues are really reserved for the consoles in that regard, the challenge on PC is certainly how up-to-date you are and what frame rates or resolution/effects you can still run toenjoy the game. I have not adjusted the settings much, but I suspect the frame rate could be better. But I prefer the looks over FPS.

It's an awesome game. Atmosphere, storytelling, character interactions are just brilliant.

One of the most fascinating things I realized is that the dialogs in the game basically help you decide who your character really is. Particular early hightlights (38 hours of play time, but I barely advanced the main plot) is the talk with an AI "operated" prostitute and a talk with one of the regular NPCs during a recon/stakeout style mission.


----------



## MarkB (Dec 17, 2020)

Although I experienced a couple of crashes on day one, and another after the big patch, I haven't actually experienced anything that major in the lots of hours I've been playing since then.

The one thing I really wish they'd fix is that the game doesn't consistently remember the custom settings you choose. Some days when I boot it up it's kept them all as I set them, others they're all back to default.


----------



## Deset Gled (Dec 17, 2020)

Sacrosanct said:


> Apparently Adam Czinski (sp) made a statement about how management didn't fully understand the scope of the issues.  As a former test and now a product owner in testing, I call BS.  I'm sure @Imaculata will probably back this up, but I _guarantee _you that management were told of these issues and concerns and just ignored the testing and dev team.





Imaculata said:


> Oh yes, they knew.




Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 17, 2020)

Morrus said:


> I’m a couple hours in on PS4 and haven’t seen any issues yet.



tip: Don't pick the scrapper perk, as some of the junk items are worth a lot of money.


----------



## Gradine (Dec 18, 2020)

LOLOL Sony is pulling the game from the PS4 store


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 18, 2020)

Always follow Zard's advice with gaming. Never preorder or buy a console on release. 

 Just wait usually cheaper and more reliable/stable.


----------



## Deset Gled (Dec 18, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Always follow Zard's advice with gaming. Never preorder or buy a console on release.
> 
> Just wait usually cheaper and more reliable/stable.




I don't think anyone is blaming early versions of the PS5 for the Cyberpunk problems; it's all software issues.  And if you didn't pre-order a PS5, it's likely you're not getting one for Xmas.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 18, 2020)

Deset Gled said:


> I don't think anyone is blaming early versions of the PS5 for the Cyberpunk problems; it's all software issues.  And if you didn't pre-order a PS5, it's likely you're not getting one for Xmas.
> 
> Only a Sith deals in absolutes.




 Yeah but what use is a PS5 right now? Any triple AAA games on it worth paying a premium for? 

Remember red ring of death on Xbox, didn't PS4 have some sort of problem early in? 

 If you wait you pay less, avoid the risk of any manufacturing problems and usually get a bundle. 

 I might break that rule for a Nintendo console launching with Zelda.


----------



## embee (Dec 18, 2020)

Gradine said:


> LOLOL Sony is pulling the game from the PS4 store




CDPR really shat the bed. From $31 on 12/4 down to $19 right now. That's an expensive lesson in not releasing poorly-optimized games.


----------



## Deset Gled (Dec 18, 2020)

embee said:


> CDPR really shat the bed. From $31 on 12/4 down to $19 right now. That's an expensive lesson in not releasing poorly-optimized games.



I find it oddly refreshing that it's coming back to bite them so fast.  When this has happened in the past (e.g. Sim City 4, Fallout 76, etc), it sucked for players, but the game companies essentially got to profit from the fall.  Publishers kept the pre-orders and made people request individual refunds, which lessened the financial blowback and essentially let publishers forge ahead until the games were at least playable.  With Sony shutting Cyberpunk out of the PS store and other online retailers pushing back against them and offering easy(ish) refunds, CDPR is going to feel the response immediately.  I like it.


----------



## Gradine (Dec 18, 2020)

Their response is "we hope to resolve this as quickly as possible" which... is kinda what put them in this mess in the first place?


----------



## MarkB (Dec 18, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Yeah but what use is a PS5 right now? Any triple AAA games on it worth paying a premium for?



Well, any game should benefit from the much-improved loading times, and Spider-man Miles Morales reportedly makes at least some use of the new controller functionality, which is its other major selling point.


----------



## Imaculata (Dec 19, 2020)

The only game I am really looking forward to on PS5, is the Demons Souls remake. But right now, even if I could get my hands on a PS5, it would be silly to get one just for that one game.

I got Cyberpunk on pc, because I figured it would be more stable, and of course future mod support. I was wrong about it being more stable.


----------



## Zardnaar (Dec 19, 2020)

Oops.









						'It's definitely appropriation': Use of tā moko in Cyberpunk 2077 video game
					

The inclusion of tā moko in the video game has "shocked" one design consultant and a TVNZ broadcaster has labelled it "absolute ignorance".




					i.stuff.co.nz


----------



## MGibster (Dec 20, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Oops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The game is chocked full of appropriation from the various gangs to the big bad Japanese corporation Arasaka.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 20, 2020)

I'm still having tons of fun, finished two of the relationship quest. I'm already thinking about my next play through.


----------



## MarkB (Dec 24, 2020)

Still really enjoying the game. I've specialised my character in hacking, and it's just crazy how effective it gets at higher levels. He's carrying guns he's never fired because he can basically clear an entire building using his cyberdeck. Before he even walks into it.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 24, 2020)

MarkB said:


> Still really enjoying the game. I've specialised my character in hacking, and it's just crazy how effective it gets at higher levels. He's carrying guns he's never fired because he can basically clear an entire building using his cyberdeck. Before he even walks into it.



I've done all but the secret ending,which  requires a dialogue choice made during a side job. So i'll do that on my second playthrough. I just haven't made up my mind on do i wanna go male V and romance Paname or another female V and stick with Judy and which life path do i choos. I went with corpo. I've already decided to specialize in a sword/pistol combo build.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 25, 2020)

My two Vs or would that be ten or W?


----------



## MarkB (Dec 27, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> My two Vs or would that be ten or W?



My only V so far. Nomad life path. Getting close to the end of the main plot, but still lots of side missions to explore.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 27, 2020)

I picked street kid for my male V,pro tip don't get the scrapper perk. Cyberpunk 2077 Mantis Blades: how to get Legendary Mantis Blades


----------



## MarkB (Dec 31, 2020)

After 111 hours I've finished my first play-through of the game, going with the Aldecaldos ending - full circle for my Nomad.

I'll be playing a female street kid next playthrough, and try to specialise more in strength/reflexes - specialising in hacking is very effective, but it really trivialises most encounters from the mid-game onwards.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 31, 2020)




----------



## MarkB (Dec 31, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 130754



Definitely the best way to travel. I love the way you can pop the bike into a 90-degree slide with a touch of the brakes - makes up for the short warning time you get for turns when following the minimap.


----------



## trappedslider (Dec 31, 2020)

MarkB said:


> Definitely the best way to travel. I love the way you can pop the bike into a 90-degree slide with a touch of the brakes - makes up for the short warning time you get for turns when following the minimap.



the inspiration for the look of the bike



Spoiler








 while the bike's name is Kusanagi and is a shout out to Ghost In The Shell.


----------



## MarkB (Dec 31, 2020)

trappedslider said:


> the inspiration for the look of the bike
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only thing missing from the game version is the light trails from the tail lights.


----------



## chuckdee (Jan 1, 2021)

Sacrosanct said:


> I don't work in game development, but I do work in software development for a large company (I used to be a tester for years, but my current role is a Product Owner for an Agile scrum team), and my experiences pretty much align with this.  We just finished a project on 12/8.  Deployment date?  12/10.  That's unheard of to be working on code that late into the game.  Technically we were past hard code freeze date, but you do what you gotta do for high profile projects.
> 
> There is never enough time for testing.  Ever.  And you will always be scrambling to meet deadlines.  High sev show stoppers get the attention, and the rest may go out with the final deployment.   I've heard that in the gaming industry, the environment is even worse for testers and devs to get things done, and they are often treated poorly.



Former game QA, current software developer here.  Can also vouch for this.  And the release windows are very uncompromising with retail and the holiday seasons.  I remember working on a game doing 36/12s for a few weeks (36 hours on/12 hours off) to get a master out the door in time for it to be in stores for Christmas.  On the day that the master went out, we were still fixing things, and honestly, still finding things.  The digital release was a bit better, but those poor blokes that bought in the store were in for a massive patch.

Glad I got out of game development.  Even though I miss working on the cool stuff, the stress wasn't worth it.  And I get paid a lot better for working on financial stuff than I ever did in game development.


----------



## chuckdee (Jan 1, 2021)

Umbran said:


> Not in my experience.  When software is buggy, the first person to take crap for it is.. the dev manager.  If there's a decision to skimp on QA for time/money's sake, that's generally forced on the Dev Manger, not originating from them.




Not in my experience.  It's the scrum team.  We have to go before kangaroo courts (not really courts, but higher ups) that judge everything wrong and the resposibility and how we will make it not happen again.  We go to them for errors in delivery, late delivery, not meeting agile metrics... basically if anything is wrong.  It sucks, and tends to make teams underpromise so that they can overdeliver.


----------



## Umbran (Jan 1, 2021)

chuckdee said:


> Not in my experience.  It's the scrum team.  We have to go before kangaroo courts (not really courts, but higher ups) that judge everything wrong and the resposibility and how we will make it not happen again.  We go to them for errors in delivery, late delivery, not meeting agile metrics... basically if anything is wrong.  It sucks, and tends to make teams underpromise so that they can overdeliver.




Speaking as a scrummaster myself, that does not sound like a well-run scrum, and I'm sorry you have to work that way.


----------



## Sacrosanct (Jan 1, 2021)

chuckdee said:


> Not in my experience.  It's the scrum team.  We have to go before kangaroo courts (not really courts, but higher ups) that judge everything wrong and the resposibility and how we will make it not happen again.  We go to them for errors in delivery, late delivery, not meeting agile metrics... basically if anything is wrong.  It sucks, and tends to make teams underpromise so that they can overdeliver.



Yep. The dev master is just part of the scrum team and doesn't make those sorts of decisions. That all comes from the value stream leader and upper leadership.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 1, 2021)

MarkB said:


> The only thing missing from the game version is the light trails from the tail lights.



There's also the way you sit,but that's okay


----------



## chuckdee (Jan 2, 2021)

Umbran said:


> Speaking as a scrummaster myself, that does not sound like a well-run scrum, and I'm sorry you have to work that way.




Well, we're supposed to be moving to SAFe.  Hopefully that's better.  But what I've seen doesn't make it seem like it will be so.  That planning at the beginning of the iteration is rough.


----------



## Umbran (Jan 2, 2021)

chuckdee said:


> Well, we're supposed to be moving to SAFe.  Hopefully that's better.  But what I've seen doesn't make it seem like it will be so.  That planning at the beginning of the iteration is rough.




The Scaled Agile Framework is good at what it does.  But, while I am not there, it sure sounds like you have some upper management issues that it won't solve.  I'm happy to discuss, but we should probably take it to private message, rather than a thread about a game.


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 3, 2021)

MarkB said:


> Still really enjoying the game. I've specialised my character in hacking, and it's just crazy how effective it gets at higher levels. He's carrying guns he's never fired because he can basically clear an entire building using his cyberdeck. Before he even walks into it.




I went the other way. I maxed out Reflexes/ Cool/ Tech and played as a Solo gun freak.

Maxed out Assault and Handguns now, plus 14+ in Cold Blood, Stealth and Crafting (and the obligatory few ranks in Body for the HP). Packing a one shot silenced Power sniper rifle, a Legendary silenced power pistol, and a Legendary Ajax assault rifle.

Found me a Militech Mk5 Legendary Sandivestian Reflex booster mid game, and swapped that in for the Cyberdeck for that and havent looked back.

It nearly broke the game for me. Am basically cruising about town on my bike, and the instant I see a highlighted enemy or whatever, I hop off the bike, double jump lin the middle of a horde of enemies, activate the Sandivestian, and have nearly 20 seconds of frozen time murder to get to work. I can usually kill 6-12 enemies before they know what hit them.

Pro tip, play the game on at least Hard mode. Im really regretting not playing it on the level above that (Very Hard??). I'm absolutely creaming missions now.

If I had my time again I'd play it on Very Hard at a bare minimum.

The inventory management system is an absolute joke. You can carry way too much naughty word, you always look like an total idiot due to basically needing to wear clothes with the most mod slots to cram them full of Armadillo mods, food and drink is totally pointless (and quickly starts to take up precious encumbrance) and takes forever to sell, medkits are literally everywhere, getting Crafting to 20 looks like it will take weeks of stripping and then crafting the same items over and over, and the GPS doesnt zoom out when you're driving meaning you miss most turns (and driving anything other than motorbikes makes it impossible to see over the dash).


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 3, 2021)

trappedslider said:


> I picked street kid for my male V,pro tip don't get the scrapper perk. Cyberpunk 2077 Mantis Blades: how to get Legendary Mantis Blades




Armadillo Mods.

All my gear is packing multiple Armadillo mods and my Armor is well over 2000.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 3, 2021)

Flamestrike said:


> Armadillo Mods.
> 
> All my gear is packing multiple Armadillo mods and my Armor is well over 2000.



I'm doing that this play through,but i'm also going towards the "(Don't fear) the reaper" ending in which you do a lone attack on arasaka.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 4, 2021)

One's a suspended cop and the other's a merc: Together they fight crime!


----------



## MGibster (Jan 4, 2021)

Because I constantly have to take the gear I'm give, my character looks really stupid and it's a blessing I can't see him most of the time.  Most of the head choices are just plain terrible!


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 4, 2021)

MGibster said:


> Because I constantly have to take the gear I'm give, my character looks really stupid and it's a blessing I can't see him most of the time.  Most of the head choices are just plain terrible!




Just wear what looks cool and screw the numbers. Style over Substance man. Its the cyberpunk way.

Armadillo mods literally spam your Armor well over 2000 pretty easy from even mid levels, so just roll with whatever you want.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 4, 2021)

MGibster said:


> Because I constantly have to take the gear I'm give, my character looks really stupid and it's a blessing I can't see him most of the time.  Most of the head choices are just plain terrible!



I completed my first play-through yesterday, and I managed to find some neat looking stuff for my V, mostly by visiting clothing shops often, and sometimes safe-scumming (before you enter the shop, store, then look at the inventory, if it sucks, load again.) The other part of the "strategy" was crafting Armadillo mods. When you craft them, they will be at your level. I think you need good crafting skill to also get  Epic mods, but I think it doesn't actually matter much (and getting good at crafting require spending a lot on Technical Ability and crafting a lot of crap. I think the crafting system is crtainly not the game's strong points...)


----------



## MarkB (Jan 4, 2021)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I completed my first play-through yesterday, and I managed to find some neat looking stuff for my V, mostly by visiting clothing shops often, and sometimes safe-scumming (before you enter the shop, store, then look at the inventory, if it sucks, load again.) The other part of the "strategy" was crafting Armadillo mods. When you craft them, they will be at your level. I think you need good crafting skill to also get  Epic mods, but I think it doesn't actually matter much (and getting good at crafting require spending a lot on Technical Ability and crafting a lot of crap. I think the crafting system is crtainly not the game's strong points...)



Yeah, the crafting system could definitely use some work - especially batch-crafting for upgrading components. And some of the requirements are really out of whack.

I wound up wearing a basic Common jacket for around the last quarter of my first playthrough, simply because it was the only one that went well with both my hat and trousers. Never did find anything that looked nearly as good and had mod slots, despite a lot of shopping around.


----------



## TerraDave (Jan 5, 2021)

Well, this has been interesting.

Who would think, an RPG (turned video game) getting regular coverage in the Financial Times and Wall Street Journal?

Anyways. A big media property linked to an RPG being somehow really messed up does fit the longstanding paradigm. 

It has meant vast publicity. I am glad many people still like the game. They will probably fix the bugs.


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 5, 2021)

What really irks me is how they simply re-did the inventory management, crafting, and 'bullet sponge' enemies from Fallout (which is that games weakness) and slapped on a Tiered equipment section as well.

I would have loved to have seen a much more realistic inventory management system (at any one given time you're literally hauling around 20 guns, 6 different outfits, 3 weeks groceries, a few bags of trash, and 4 dozen grenades).

And speaking of those groceries, what's the point? I cant see anyone bothering to eat or drink in the game.

Ditto the Cyberware. It's just a little too fiddly. Having different cybereyes change your HUD and so forth would have been a nice touch. Plus also there being some kind of trade-off for your cyberware (which is a key theme of the transhumanism of the genre as well).

Also the driving. A missed opportunity for some cyber-controleled cars... and drones.

It's a good game, but if they had have pared that stuff back and focussed simpler but stronger inventory management, cyberware and gear, it could have been a really great game.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 5, 2021)

Flamestrike said:


> What really irks me is how they simply re-did the inventory management, crafting, and 'bullet sponge' enemies from Fallout (which is that games weakness) and slapped on a Tiered equipment section as well.
> 
> I would have loved to have seen a much more realistic inventory management system (at any one given time you're literally hauling around 20 guns, 6 different outfits, 3 weeks groceries, a few bags of trash, and 4 dozen grenades).
> 
> ...



Why are you hulling all that around? At most, I'm carrying my primary weapon and maybe a secondary weapon and what ever i'm currently wearing. I either sell or scrap anything beyond that. The different cyberware have mod slots that can be fitted with mods that do different things.


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 5, 2021)

trappedslider said:


> Why are you hulling all that around? At most, I'm carrying my primary weapon and maybe a secondary weapon and what ever i'm currently wearing. I either sell or scrap anything beyond that.



But you're constantly hauling it around, selling it, then killing more guys to get more stuff, to haul around, sell and so forth. The only time my inventory is empty is immediately after hocking off the stuff I acquired in the 10 minutes of murder since I last sold off a ton of crap.

I only recently stopped doing it (at 50th level no less) when I figured out that you can sell the painting that drops from space at drop boxes for 4 grand, log out of the box, and then buy it back for 5 EU, log out and sell it back for another 4 grand, rinse and repeat.

I now have over a million EU from doing this for a few hours.

I also now scrap everything I find because I effectively now have infinite wealth.



> The different cyberware have mod slots that can be fitted with mods that do different things.




I'm aware of that. I've been packing legendary Mantis blades and  legendary Subdermal armor, and a Legendary Militech Mk5 Sandivestian for ages now, the blades and Sandivestian are modded up to the hilt. Ditto my Epic Kiroshi eyes and other odds and ends.

When I waltz pass a group of guys with a bounty (gangers) or a crime in progress, I leap in the middle of them with the cyber legs, activate the Sandivestian and can usually kill 6 or more guys in bullet time with the blades or my Legendary guns before they even start firing back and time goes back to normal.

I actually feel sorry for them. Im now just a random Cybercpsycho millionaire who rides around NC in his Bike, leaping from it to murder people by the score.

An insane murderous Batman if you will.

It's just unnecessarily fiddly is my point. I like how they baked class into your Cyberdeck slot (Netrunners need Cyberdecks, Solos need Sandivestians and Melee types go with Beserk) but they really could have stripped the system back somewhat, removed the needless complexity, and made it more in line with the genre (a trade-off for going borg).


----------



## MGibster (Jan 5, 2021)

trappedslider said:


> Why are you hulling all that around? At most, I'm carrying my primary weapon and maybe a secondary weapon and what ever i'm currently wearing. I either sell or scrap anything beyond that. The different cyberware have mod slots that can be fitted with mods that do different things.



It's easy to become overburdened with loot though there are plenty of convenient places to sell it.  I find the loot management system to be a terrible disorganized mess.  But most console RPGs have terrible inventory systems for some reason.


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 5, 2021)

MGibster said:


> It's easy to become overburdened with loot though there are plenty of convenient places to sell it.  I find the loot management system to be a terrible disorganized mess.  But most console RPGs have terrible inventory systems for some reason.



The game relies on weight which is a terrible way of doing encumbrance. Rarely will weight be the deciding factor over bulk when it comes to how much you can carry..

A number of 'Slots' equal to (say) 5+ (Body), with each item taking a number of 'slots'. 

Maybe a mod (Plate carrier and chest rig etc) that lets you carry more.

Or even a number of fixed slots (holster, long-arm, backpack, melee etc). You start with a utility belt that contains a holster, 4 'ready' pocket slots, plus a backpack, gain more 'ready' from a chest rig, more from a  rifle sling, more from a back-scabbard, can get a second holster etc).

Backpacks hold more, but getting stuff out of a backpack triggers an animation where you drop to one knee, place the pack down in front of you and rummage around in it for a few seconds to get the thing out. Holstered, slung, pocketed and chest rig items are 'ready' and are drawn more or less straight away as normal.

Basically let you customise your gear load out, and carry as much (or as little) as you like.

Id also be tempted to back in the 'Style over substance' nature of Cyberpunk (this was another missed opportunity). Walking around in a plate carrier and chest rig and combat helmet automatically triggers police action and negative NPC reactions (in some cases when intimidating NPCs it might even help!). Wearing expensive corporate clothes might give an advantage with NPC interactions. 

Your style should affect game play. At present most V's are running around looking like something out of a Circus, carrying a billion guns from one drop box to the next. Its incredibly immersion breaking for mine.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 5, 2021)

Flamestrike said:


> It's just unnecessarily fiddly is my point. I like how they baked class into your Cyberdeck slot (Netrunners need Cyberdecks, Solos need Sandivestians and Melee types go with Beserk) but they really could have stripped the system back somewhat, removed the needless complexity, and made it more in line with the genre (a trade-off for going borg).



I haven't used anything beyond the cyberdeck, I also stopped using the mantis blades for my melee and stay with my katana. Our experiences and apparently play styles are very different. lol


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 5, 2021)

trappedslider said:


> I haven't used anything beyond the cyberdeck, I also stopped using the mantis blades for my melee and stay with my katana. Our experiences and apparently play styles are very different. lol




Man I didnt even know Sandivestians were a thing. I upgraded my Cyberdeck once, and then at around 20th level, stumbled on a Legendary Mk 5 Militech Sandivestian.

When I read what it did, I was like... WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE!!

At that stage I was all Assault, Stealth and Cold Blood (was shooting my way through my problems with Fenrir) so the swap was logical.

I can scan stuff now. That's it. I have to shoot out cameras. I basically see an enemy, and either take them out at range (silenced power sniper rifle that one shots anything) or just double jump in, activate the Sandivestian and murder every red dot on the map I can see in bullet time before they can react.

When you absolutely positively need to kill everything in the room, accept no substitute.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 5, 2021)

Flamestrike said:


> Man I didnt even know Sandivestians were a thing. I upgraded my Cyberdeck once, and then at around 20th level, stumbled on a Legendary Mk 5 Militech Sandivestian.
> 
> When I read what it did, I was like... WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE!!
> 
> ...



I just take out one or two with system reset and then slice and dice lol.


----------



## MarkB (Jan 5, 2021)

Flamestrike said:


> When you absolutely positively need to kill everything in the room, accept no substitute.



Except for Legendary Ping and Contagion, which will do it in a lot less than 20 seconds, before you even enter the room.


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 5, 2021)

MarkB said:


> Except for Legendary Ping and Contagion, which will do it in a lot less than 20 seconds, before you even enter the room.




I have a Legendary System Reset quick hack (knocks enemies out). When paired with the right Cyberdeck it can literally knock out (without raising an alarm) 6 different enemies at once.

With talents it can be even more devastating.

13 RAM.

However...


----------



## MarkB (Jan 5, 2021)

Flamestrike said:


> I have a Legendary System Reset quick hack (knocks enemies out). When paired with the right Cyberdeck it can literally knock out (without raising an alarm) 6 different enemies at once.
> 
> With talents it can be even more devastating.
> 
> ...



Fair. The high-level hacks really do make the game easy-mode - every encounter is essentially over before it begins. I'm using a Sandestivan on my second playthrough, and specialising in pistols with a bit of blades, and it's certainly working well.


----------



## Flamestrike (Jan 5, 2021)

MarkB said:


> Fair. The high-level hacks really do make the game easy-mode - every encounter is essentially over before it begins. I'm using a Sandestivan on my second playthrough, and specialising in pistols with a bit of blades, and it's certainly working well.




It totally changes the way the game is played.

I dont use 'scan vision' now for anything else other than loot detection.


----------



## MarkB (Jan 5, 2021)

Flamestrike said:


> It totally changes the way the game is played.
> 
> I dont use 'scan vision' now for anything else other than loot detection.



That's still taking some getting used to, and I do use it to identify which faction the foes are (usually doesn't matter, but in my first playthrough one of the Assault in Progress locations had some Aldecaldos there and I was heavily allied with them, so I let them be). But yes, I tend to rely on the minimap to point me towards unseen foes rather than highlighting them in advance.

The nice thing is that I actually get a good look at them now. In my first playthrough, most enemies I was actively fighting were human-shaped red swirls thanks to the slightly over-enthusiastic highlighting system.


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## Parmandur (Jan 5, 2021)

Tonguez said:


> I wait a year or so, when it goes into the clearance bin




He'll, I just started Skyrim for the first time on my Switch this past week.  No major bugs after 9 years.


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## Parmandur (Jan 5, 2021)

billd91 said:


> This has been standard practice in the industry for decades. And it's crap. They set a release date, get the buzz going in their pre-orders, and then rarely shift the release date - particularly as Xmas gets closer. Getting the product through the physical product generation and packing takes enough time that they have to have the base release ready well ahead of ship and release dates - knowing full well that it's still ferociously buggy. They count on that time lag between their official base release packing and the street date to generate downloadable patches to save the playability of the game when people actually install it on their consoles/PC hard drives.
> 
> This is one significant reason why there are people who never buy the .0 version of any software and why I usually wait to buy computer games for either my X-Box or iMac until many months after release (and when the prices go down).




It's common practice, but it's not universal. Nintendo, for first party releases at least, will delay games for years if needed, and they are always good to go day one.


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## trappedslider (Jan 8, 2021)

Corpo                                                                     Streetkid                                                              Nomad


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## MarkB (Jan 9, 2021)

I've criticised the poor route guidance provided in the game when driving a couple of times in this thread, but I was willing to cut the developers some slack on the grounds that they just didn't have time to prioritise a decent HUD system for it.

Until today I finally got round to starting the street-racing missions (I'd skipped them in my first playthrough) and found that these come with a comprehensive visual interface that guides you along a chosen course in your main view, rather than just in the minimap. So it's not that they didn't have a system in place, it's just that they decided it wasn't worth implementing for regular day-to-day driving.


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## trappedslider (Jan 13, 2021)

this was a cool historical in joke


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## MarkB (Jan 13, 2021)

Well, they've issued an official statement.


Their explanation of how things looked from their side is rather damning, and not entirely convincing. They basically admit that they were optimising for PC and next-gen consoles first, and effectively just hoping they might optimise things enough for the older-gen consoles by the time they hit the release date.


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## trappedslider (Jan 13, 2021)

next update is out in ten days,so that's good.


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## chuckdee (Jan 14, 2021)

MarkB said:


> Their explanation of how things looked from their side is rather damning, and not entirely convincing. They basically admit that they were optimising for PC and next-gen consoles first, and effectively just hoping they might optimise things enough for the older-gen consoles by the time they hit the release date.




Not sure why damning or not convincing, but then I've seen how it works on the inside.  I've seen where something is working on one platform, so they use it for reviews and media, with the assumption that the other platform will 'get there'.  And it can seem quite plausible, though it's never as certain as they think it is in my experience.


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## trappedslider (Jan 14, 2021)

so,while driving around randomly i came upon a battle between miltech and some guards, i decided to end the battle.


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## MarkB (Jan 14, 2021)

chuckdee said:


> Not sure why damning or not convincing, but then I've seen how it works on the inside.  I've seen where something is working on one platform, so they use it for reviews and media, with the assumption that the other platform will 'get there'.  And it can seem quite plausible, though it's never as certain as they think it is in my experience.



The damning part is their admission that, despite last-gen consoles (which, bear in mind, were current-gen up until literally weeks before the game's launch) being almost certainly the game's largest user base, they were optimising the game for PC first, current-gen consoles second, and last-gen consoles a distant third.

The not-convincing part is the assertion that they had any real expectation of being able to finish optimising the game for last-gen consoles by the time the game launched.


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## chuckdee (Jan 14, 2021)

MarkB said:


> The damning part is their admission that, despite last-gen consoles (which, bear in mind, were current-gen up until literally weeks before the game's launch) being almost certainly the game's largest user base, they were optimising the game for PC first, current-gen consoles second, and last-gen consoles a distant third.
> 
> The not-convincing part is the assertion that they had any real expectation of being able to finish optimising the game for last-gen consoles by the time the game launched.



Optomization is done last.  That is a standard practice.  You build for it, but you do optimizations and performance testing last.  He said that they saw that the PC was close to their numbers and they were seeing improvements when they announced release.  Some time between that announcement (which already saw blow back) and the final days, the curve of improvements changed.  That happens.  It's bad decision making in my opinion to rely on that, and I think that decisions should be made on what's in front of you- but I've been bitten by it before, and in my case, the CEO was breathing down our necks to get it fixed and cleaned up rather than owning up to the fault that it was his own management and himself that allowed it to happen.


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## MGibster (Jan 15, 2021)

Is it just me, or does it seem like they were developing a whole story line involving Holt using cyberpsychos to assassinate the mayor and at some point they just dropped it?


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## MarkB (Jan 15, 2021)

MGibster said:


> Is it just me, or does it seem like they were developing a whole story line involving Holt using cyberpsychos to assassinate the mayor and at some point they just dropped it?



A lot of the stuff around the mayoral race seems partially developed. The Dream On quest line with the Peralezes, as disturbingly compelling as it is, eventually just fizzles out. I'm thinking maybe they'll expand upon this as a set of DLC quests involving a larger corporate/political conspiracy.


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## trappedslider (Jan 15, 2021)

MarkB said:


> A lot of the stuff around the mayoral race seems partially developed. The Dream On quest line with the Peralezes, as disturbingly compelling as it is, eventually just fizzles out. I'm thinking maybe they'll expand upon this as a set of DLC quests involving a larger corporate/political conspiracy.



I don't remember at which point but if you look around, you'll see Mr. Blue hands who appears in one of the endings offering you a job dealing with an orbital casino.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 15, 2021)

I found the statement interesting because it goes into a bit more on what is behind the issues. A lot of it seems to be related to their "streaming" system that allows them to more or less seamlessly load parts of the map. They probably have to make compromises for available memory, but another factor is the speed of the hard drive. Today I learned that some of the "lastgen" consoles actually can be equipped with an external SSD and that can boost the performance of the game considerably. So if you intend to stay with your console and worry about running out of hard disk space anyway, consider that as an option,it will probably help you for many games.

I play on a PC with an SSD and all, so it's not really an issue for me. I think the bugs I see are not that much related to performance, a

I am on my second play-through, this time on a male V with a Nomad origin. It took quite some time until I got used to the voice actor.  Fun thing is you can get your Nomad car from the intro back at some point. It's fairly decent, good speed (but other cars are faster). I always try to take it now when I am heading to Panam. On my female V, I really fell in love with the Nomad version of the Quadra-66. Good handling and one of the fastest car in the game IIRC, and it would have been a natural fit for this V, too, but that would be boring.


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## TheAlkaizer (Jan 15, 2021)

I cannot in good conscience trust most of what he says.

I work in video games development. He said that they were the final decision makers but never intended for anything that happened to happen. They either tested their game at least once in the last few months themselves and saw that it was unplayable for older consoles, or they didn't. In both situations, making the decision to release the game was inevitably lead to a huge mess. Nobody will convince me that it wasn't an economically motivated decision.

I also read somewhere that he said that the testers hadn't reported all the bugs that happened on launch. The thing is that we are not talking about some obscure bug. Anyone that can pickup the controller and play for twenty minutes would have been that the old generation version is unplayable and the new consoles is really not top notch.

And when he says "we're working very hard" what he means is "the team that worked on this project for over seven years, crunched for months and had little say in release the game in such a broken state will continue crunching to fix our mistake".

This whole affair makes me very sad. Not only I like CD Projekt Red as a developer, but this whole fiasco is very, very bad for an already cynical industry when it comes to consumer-developer relationships.


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## MarkB (Jan 15, 2021)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I found the statement interesting because it goes into a bit more on what is behind the issues. A lot of it seems to be related to their "streaming" system that allows them to more or less seamlessly load parts of the map. They probably have to make compromises for available memory, but another factor is the speed of the hard drive. Today I learned that some of the "lastgen" consoles actually can be equipped with an external SSD and that can boost the performance of the game considerably. So if you intend to stay with your console and worry about running out of hard disk space anyway, consider that as an option,it will probably help you for many games.



Yeah, I've got a standard PS4, and you can really see the streaming issue kick in when you use a fast vehicle. I gave up using the Caliburn because it would literally drop through the world sometimes - the road would be loaded in visually, but the physics engine didn't know it was there.

Even just riding a fast bike, if I drive directly to an interior mission location, I have to wait for about ten seconds after I dismount for the door to load in, in stages - first, the basic panel, then the glass, but black, and finally the translucent view of the interior. Then I can open it and walk in.

I'm not _planning_ to stick with my PS4 - I just haven't had an opportunity to purchase a PS5 yet.


Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I am on my second play-through, this time on a male V with a Nomad origin. It took quite some time until I got used to the voice actor.  Fun thing is you can get your Nomad car from the intro back at some point. It's fairly decent, good speed (but other cars are faster). I always try to take it now when I am heading to Panam. On my female V, I really fell in love with the Nomad version of the Quadra-66. Good handling and one of the fastest car in the game IIRC, and it would have been a natural fit for this V, too, but that would be boring.



That was my first playthrough, and while I eventually switched to motorbikes for urban travel, I still always broke out the starter Nomad car when out of town. It's a very competent ride - agile, fast enough, and it handles reasonably off-road.


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## trappedslider (Jan 15, 2021)

MarkB said:


> Yeah, I've got a standard PS4, and you can really see the streaming issue kick in when you use a fast vehicle. I gave up using the Caliburn because it would literally drop through the world sometimes - the road would be loaded in visually, but the physics engine didn't know it was there.
> 
> Even just riding a fast bike, if I drive directly to an interior mission location, I have to wait for about ten seconds after I dismount for the door to load in, in stages - first, the basic panel, then the glass, but black, and finally the translucent view of the interior. Then I can open it and walk in.



huh, I haven't had that issue with cars or bikes...my only issue with vehicles has been hitting stuff that I see and don't avoid lol and going flying off the bike lol. There was on spot on an onramp, I hit the side wall and went flying half way into the next section of night city...lol


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## chuckdee (Jan 15, 2021)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I play on a PC with an SSD and all, so it's not really an issue for me.




I play on PC without an SSD and it's not an issue for me.


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## chuckdee (Jan 15, 2021)

TheAlkaizer said:


> I work in video games development. He said that they were the final decision makers but never intended for anything that happened to happen. They either tested their game at least once in the last few months themselves and saw that it was unplayable for older consoles, or they didn't. In both situations, making the decision to release the game was inevitably lead to a huge mess. Nobody will convince me that it wasn't an economically motivated decision.




I worked in the video game industry, and yeah... we had one project with performance issues all the way up until the end.  They delayed once, then 'couldn't delay again because of release windows'.  We were continually improving, but there just wasn't enough time.

I don't believe the didn't know that there were problems, but I do believe that they deluded themselves into thinking that they could get them done by the day zero patch.  It's madness.  We were able to do it in my case, but it was a very close thing, and the patch was laughably large because we had to rewrite some low-level code.  Even with that, we advised not to release it at that time, because we hadn't had the time to put it through the paces.  But they released it anyway.  Thankfully, there were only a few problems in the new optimizations, but it could have gone a _lot _worse.  

This seems like a case where the Dev/QA were not able to pull off the last minute miracle that they were counting on.  It should be a cautionary tale, but from experience, it won't be.


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## MarkB (Jan 15, 2021)

trappedslider said:


> huh, I haven't had that issue with cars or bikes...my only issue with vehicles has been hitting stuff that I see and don't avoid lol and going flying off the bike lol. There was on spot on an onramp, I hit the side wall and went flying half way into the next section of night city...lol



The funniest incident I've had with vehicles was with Jackie's Arch. You know how when the bikes autopilot to you, they pop up on their front wheel when they brake to a halt? One time, the Arch managed to actually literally flip itself upside down.

I got on, thinking it would right itself. Instead, I was sat upside down on the bike with my torso and head under the road surface, looking at the underlying terrain. When I dismounted, I fell all the way through the road and onto the ground, but was trapped 'inside' the roadway with no way to get out. Fortunately the game had autosaved shortly before I called the bike.


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## trappedslider (Jan 16, 2021)

MarkB said:


> The funniest incident I've had with vehicles was with Jackie's Arch. You know how when the bikes autopilot to you, they pop up on their front wheel when they brake to a halt? One time, the Arch managed to actually literally flip itself upside down.
> 
> I got on, thinking it would right itself. Instead, I was sat upside down on the bike with my torso and head under the road surface, looking at the underlying terrain. When I dismounted, I fell all the way through the road and onto the ground, but was trapped 'inside' the roadway with no way to get out. Fortunately the game had autosaved shortly before I called the bike.



Along the bike not stopping,i've also had it hit me lol


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 16, 2021)

chuckdee said:


> I play on PC without an SSD and it's not an issue for me.



It's probably not as much a problem if your other hardware components (like graphics memory and RAM) are better than whatever PS4 or X-Box One have by default (got more memory, the stuff doesn't even need to be streamed from disk, because it's already in memory). But on consoles, the only thing you can upgrade is probably an external hard drive...


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## trappedslider (Jan 16, 2021)

I found skippy the gun with a sassy AI


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## chuckdee (Jan 17, 2021)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> It's probably not as much a problem if your other hardware components (like graphics memory and RAM) are better than whatever PS4 or X-Box One have by default (got more memory, the stuff doesn't even need to be streamed from disk, because it's already in memory). But on consoles, the only thing you can upgrade is probably an external hard drive...




The only thing I have that's above spec is the RAM... I have 48GB.  But everything else is pushing recommended.  But I can see what you mean.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 19, 2021)

I shouldn't have activated the nVidia FPS counter. Now I want a new graphic cards. And you almost can't get any.


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## chuckdee (Jan 20, 2021)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I shouldn't have activated the nVidia FPS counter. Now I want a new graphic cards. And you almost can't get any.




Yeah... I go by feel instead of stats for this reason.  I was able to justify a small jump in my card for the game, but I can't go any higher right now.  It feels good in play to me, which is enough.


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## trappedslider (Feb 8, 2021)

(doing an in character diary thing)







So, 6 months ago I was backstabbed by my bosses at Arasaka after being used as a pawn by my boss. I was able to land on my feet with help from my choomba Jackie. We did jobs here and there, while i earned enough to move out of his place with his mom. Now we've hit the big time or at least one step closer, or so says Jackie. Jackie landed us a job from Dexter Deshawn, after having what felt like an actual job interview with the guy (surprised he didn't ask for work history), he gave some details on the gig. It looks like there's two parts to it. One is getting a military drone and possibly dealing with the person who lost it, and the other is meeting with the person who gave out the job.


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## trappedslider (Feb 10, 2021)

So, it turns the one who put out the job is named Evelyn Parker, I went and met her at Lizzie's. That brought back a lot of memories, since it was the place where I lost everything that mattered to me at the time. She had me look over a BD she scrolled during a night with  Yorinobu Arasaka. He apparently took the Relic out from under his dad's nose. Also met a friend of hers ,a girl named Judy. She's got that troubled past tom boy look and it's a good look. 
The other part was a but more dicey. The corpo who lost the drone, Meredith stout after wanting to kill me gave me a spiked credit chip to give to the  Maelstrom to pay (again) for the drone that Dex already paid for. Turns out that was a bad idea, since their software detected it and both me and Jackie had to fight our way out. Once we made it out, we found Meredith and Miltech waiting for us. 

I wouldn't mind seeing either Judy or Meredith again, maybe even with some drinks or a bite to eat. 

Once we got everything we need, we headed to the afterlife. It's a bar that's housed in what used to be a morgue way back. It's a place where deals and details are figured out over drinks. We met with Dexter and T-bug (the netrunner side of the op) in person. Turns out we're going to be going into Yorinobu's pent suite at kenplenke plaza. The plan is to knock out the in house netrunner, make our way to his pad and steal the biochip, then get out. Sounds like a perfect chance for some good old revenge or maybe a way to buy myself back into Saka.
(Comments, complaints ,suggestions?)


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