# Point Buy



## Falkus (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm planning on running this with Pathfinder (or a small chance of converting it to Fantasy Craft); and as someone who has never run Pathfinder before, my question is what would be the ideal number of points to provide for attribute purchasing for this AP?

Thanks!


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## RangerWickett (Jul 22, 2011)

Well, in 3.5 the default was 25 points. Did PF change how ability scores are bought? I'd figure you should use whatever is the default.

Then again, I think 1st level characters are insanely fragile in 3.5/PF, so maybe extra points would be a good thing. If I were running PF, I'd probably just give the PCs bonus HP. But I'm a softy.


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## Is_907 (Jul 22, 2011)

My group typically does 4d6 drop lowest... we're kind of throwbacks like that.

I'd do 28... maybe 32. Depends on how experienced your players are.
Bonus HP wouldn't hurt, though max HD + con mod is pretty generous in PF, as the HD went up for most classes between 3.5 and PF.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm just used to 4e's "add your Con score at 1st level" HP. When Rugult showed me the PF conversion, I was a tad surprised because I'd forgotten that one hit can drop a 1st level PC in PF. Even with crits, in 4e it takes at least 2 hits to drop a PC.

Then again, low-level combat lasts longer in 4e. It's a mixed blessing, because while you have more opportunities for tactics and teamwork, it's not really possible to just breeze through a combat in 15 minutes like I could with 3.5. Around middle levels the speeds seem to be the same in the two systems, but with very different character options.


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## Is_907 (Jul 22, 2011)

RangerWickett said:


> I'm just used to 4e's "add your Con score at 1st level" HP. When Rugult showed me the PF conversion, I was a tad surprised because I'd forgotten that one hit can drop a 1st level PC in PF. Even with crits, in 4e it takes at least 2 hits to drop a PC.
> 
> Then again, low-level combat lasts longer in 4e. It's a mixed blessing, because while you have more opportunities for tactics and teamwork, it's not really possible to just breeze through a combat in 15 minutes like I could with 3.5. Around middle levels the speeds seem to be the same in the two systems, but with very different character options.




Tangent... just the other night we were commenting, as we wrapped up a Pathfinder session, that we love how quickly we blow through un-important combat encounters in PF (as in, clearing out the tower's first floor) to leave time for story, adventure, traps, RP, and the big bad combats.

I just feel it's more flexible. I got so tired of hour-long combat to take out a band of tiny kobolds in 4e.



Anyway.... interested to see what the OP decides to do for point buy


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## Falkus (Jul 22, 2011)

It's been a long time since I played 3.5 too; and my experience with Pathfinder is rather limited as well. The main reason I'm choosing Pathfinder over fourth is because I just finished running a 4e campaign that lasted two and a half years; and I like to mix up the systems I run.

So far; my only access to the Pathfinder rules is through the online SRD; I'll be borrowing the rules from a friend at my Shadowrun game this weekend.

I'll probably be generous; and use 20 points for attributes.

Character Creation Outline - Pathfinder_OGC


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## Is_907 (Jul 22, 2011)

Falkus said:


> It's been a long time since I played 3.5 too; and my experience with Pathfinder is rather limited as well. The main reason I'm choosing Pathfinder over fourth is because I just finished running a 4e campaign that lasted two and a half years; and I like to mix up the systems I run.
> 
> So far; my only access to the Pathfinder rules is through the online SRD; I'll be borrowing the rules from a friend at my Shadowrun game this weekend.
> 
> ...




Sorry, forgot the point buy system changed a bit. 20 is good buy--your players will be pleased and their characters will be solid, but not 4th edition definition of "Heroic."


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## Rugult (Jul 22, 2011)

Falkus said:


> I'll probably be generous; and use 20 points for attributes.




I'd likely go for 25 points if you're making the campaign out to be the 'epic fantasy' style.  20 points is fairly standard for most campaigns and should work, but the PCs might opt to try and take more breaks and rests due to their power level.


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## Falkus (Jul 22, 2011)

Rugult said:


> I'd likely go for 25 points if you're making the campaign out to be the 'epic fantasy' style.  20 points is fairly standard for most campaigns and should work, but the PCs might opt to try and take more breaks and rests due to their power level.




Well then, 25 it is then! Thanks for the advice  My players will be pleased to hear it; I'm sure!


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## RangerWickett (Jul 22, 2011)

Is_907 said:


> Tangent... just the other night we were commenting, as we wrapped up a Pathfinder session, that we love how quickly we blow through un-important combat encounters in PF (as in, clearing out the tower's first floor) to leave time for story, adventure, traps, RP, and the big bad combats.
> 
> I just feel it's more flexible. I got so tired of hour-long combat to take out a band of tiny kobolds in 4e.




I just try not to have 'unimportant' combats. Either they should be mechanically and tactically memorable (fey in a hedge maze), or they need to develop the story.


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## Is_907 (Jul 23, 2011)

RangerWickett said:


> I just try not to have 'unimportant' combats. Either they should be mechanically and tactically memorable (fey in a hedge maze), or they need to develop the story.




(We may need to split this thread to pursue this tangent, haha.)

That must be the difference between you and the 4e DMs I played with. For them, combat was a way of life for PCs.

If you're ever in my area, I'd gladly play 4e with you. Unfortunately, the only people playing it around here are.... _*those people*_.


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## Mortagon (Jul 24, 2011)

The default for Paizo's AP's is 15 point buy and four players. Although then again, this isn't a Paizo AP .


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## Is_907 (Jul 24, 2011)

Mortagon said:


> The default for Paizo's AP's is 15 point buy and four players. Although then again, this isn't a Paizo AP .




Are you sure? That seems VERY underpowered. Pathfinder Society uses 20pt buy.

Or did you mean Paizo APs in 3.5 point buy?

I haven't really used many official Paizo APs... and when I do, I end up with whatever the DM says for abilities heh. So if you're right, I just have to say, wow!


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## Shisumo (Jul 25, 2011)

The default assumption for any of Paizo's adventures is indeed 15 pt buy.  20 pt buy seems to be rapidly establishing itself as the de facto standard, however, largely with PFS leading the charge.


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## Is_907 (Jul 25, 2011)

Shisumo said:


> The default assumption for any of Paizo's adventures is indeed 15 pt buy.  20 pt buy seems to be rapidly establishing itself as the de facto standard, however, largely with PFS leading the charge.




That's crazy. 15 point buy is a fun level of play, but in my experience the "average" D&D game is roughly equivalent to a 20 pt buy.

Again, my groups usually do 4d6 drop lowest... *shrug*


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