# Best race overall for a fighter



## Eternalknight

G'day all 

Whereas my other 2 polls ask for melee and ranged fighters, this is for an all-round fighter.  My opinion of the best all-round fighter race is the elf.  The dwarf is good for melee, the halfling for ranged, but overall the elf would be my pick.  Reason is the +2 Dex.  It allows them to be good at ranged, and use weapon finesse (with a greater range of weapons thatn a halfling).

What do you think?


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## Elder-Basilisk

Dwarf. Humans make better fighters at low levels but once you get to high levels, that extra feat doesn't make too much of a difference.

On the other hand +2 con makes a big difference.

The dwarven save bonus against magic helps to make up for the fighter's weakness against mind effecting magic.

The dwarf's bonus to poison saves really helps whenever you face poison.

The dwarf's AC bonus against Giants comes in really handy when facing giants--and giants are one of the most common enemies PCs face (and cover all CRs)

Darkvision is also a very useful ability.

Dwarves are weak in the movement department but any fighter wearing heavy armor will be weak there too. 15 feet (dwarf in full-plate) isn't too much worse than 20 feet (other medium races in full-plate) and magic (boots of Striding and Springing) can make up for it anyway.

For ranged combat, dwarves are surprisingly effective. They can use mighty composite longbows (thus gaining the most out of their strength) and don't have a dex penalty. The only race that makes better archers is elves but the elvish con penalty is a real killer for any fighter--even a ranged one. Darkvision also helps here: dwarves and half-orcs are the only races that don't need light in order to engage in ranged combat.

Finally, the dwarf's favored class is fighter. This allows dwarves to add multiple multi-classes in order to fit the particular fighting role the dwarf desires without having to worry about taking experience penalties due to having more levels of fighter.


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## Gez

Look at the two other threads for a more complete reply. Basically, since only the Dwarf and Human show up in my Top List (Dwarf, Elf, Halfling and Human in distance, Dwarf, Half-Orc and Human in melee), I would vote Dwarf and Human as overall best.


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## Malin Genie

My reasons for picking halfling:

+2 AC (effectively; +1 due to DX bonus, +1 due to size)
+2 to hit with ranged weapons (or +3 with thrown) 
No penalty to attack with melee weapons (-1 ST, +1 Size) OR
+2 attack bonus with a finesse weapon (+1 DX, +1 Size)
-2 damage on average, due to lower ST and smaller weapons
+1 to all saves, extra +2 vs fear
Skill bonuses (depending on subrace)
Low-light or darkvision (depending on subrace)

In melee, using a finesse weapon and power attack for 2 points, the halfling is even with a human fighter on attack and damage, but for +2 AC.  

Obviously they make the best ranged weapon users with the above stats.

They are highly survivable, with best AC, no CN penalty, and good saves.

The low movement is the biggest drawback, but see above poster's analysis of dwarf as to why it's not so bad....


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## Plane Sailing

My vote goes for human because that extra feat is always useful - it gets you a step ahead in useful feat chains.

The penalty for slow movement shouldn't be underated - in any occasion where tactical movement is necessary, slow movement can be a real killer.


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## Eternalknight

Malin Genie said:
			
		

> *My reasons for picking halfling:
> 
> +2 AC (effectively; +1 due to DX bonus, +1 due to size)
> +2 to hit with ranged weapons (or +3 with thrown)
> No penalty to attack with melee weapons (-1 ST, +1 Size) OR
> +2 attack bonus with a finesse weapon (+1 DX, +1 Size)
> -2 damage on average, due to lower ST and smaller weapons
> +1 to all saves, extra +2 vs fear
> Skill bonuses (depending on subrace)
> Low-light or darkvision (depending on subrace)
> 
> In melee, using a finesse weapon and power attack for 2 points, the halfling is even with a human fighter on attack and damage, but for +2 AC.
> 
> Obviously they make the best ranged weapon users with the above stats.
> 
> They are highly survivable, with best AC, no CN penalty, and good saves.
> 
> The low movement is the biggest drawback, but see above poster's analysis of dwarf as to why it's not so bad.... *




My only problem with some of your reasonings is this:

Although they get use out of weapon finesse, they can only use it with tiny weapons, wheras an elf can use it with small and tiny weapons.  Plus, a halfling gets -2 Strength penalty.


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## Darklone

*Well humans*

I disagree with the dwarf fighters. That slow movement is a real killer as long as you don't defend your position. Con bonus does not help that much either.

As for dwarves as ranged fighters: I consider it very bad style for them to use composite longbows. But well... 3rd edition didn't want to give them the shaft.

Halflings: Slow. less damage. They are cool, ok. But nothing else.

Human fighters OTOH ... Those extra skillpoints rock. The extra feat doesn't matter that much though. That's why I voted for humans. They simply don't have disadvantages and several versatile advantages.

As for darkvision or low light vision... Usually darkvision with it's ridiculous range of 30 or 60ft is useless for ranged combat. (since at a longer distance you don't see better than a fighter).

If you want a good ranged fighter, go with halfelves. No con penalty and lowlight vision plus  spot bonus. And a level sorcerer with true strike really makes your day.


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## Rashak Mani

Dwarves +2 vs Spells and good Con and Cha penalty make him perfect for a fighter.  Darkvision needless to say is a big bonus.


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## Garmorn

*Human*

I go with human.  That first level feat puts you as much as 3 levels ahead of other fighters in the feat chains (but mostly on 2 levels).  The extra four skill points at first level and then additional  1 per level is one skill maxed out that a fighter of a different race with the same stats won't even have.  That can be quite important.  If you don't go with fighter concept that requires skills it still alows a higher spot and or other important skill for the same state.


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## Tom Cashel

I see your point about humans, but...

DWARVES RULE!!!


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## Henry

Since I see little defense of the half-orc, I will add my own:

Half-orcs make the best melee fighters of all.

+2 to STR
Darkvision
The penalties to Charisma and Intelligence mean little to a half-orc fighter: they affect neither Fort, nor Will, nor Reflex saves, and a fighter usually does not depend on any of his skills anyway, particularly when wearing heavy armor.

A high STR is everything to a melee fighter.

I have known very useful Half-orc rangers put into play in the past. For a really fun experience, take a half-orc, and devote roughly 20% of his levels into Ranger, then 20% of his levels into Rogue, 10% of his levels into Barbarian, and the other 50% into the Tempest class from Masters of the Wild. Fight with either Long/short sword, or two short swords(saves a feat), and you make one of the nastiest fighters in the land. If paired with a partner to get flanking (which is very doable with a barbarian's speed and the rogue's tumble), you can Rage if you need to, STILL get the Rogue's sneak attack damage (anywhere from +1d6 per hit to +3d6 per hit), and at high levels have something like 8 attacks with no penalty from 2-weapon use. Now imagine something like 8 attacks, all with the potential for sneak attack damage, and backed by rage and an already high strength to offset the -5 iterative penalty from attacks!

This guy doesn't quote Shakespeare (or Alaundo of Candlekeep), but he can defend a territory very well, and he does a GREAT Tasmanian Devil Impersonation.


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## Vaxalon

*Depends...*

Human 

Best for many multiclass fighters, and for those where the extra feat comes in handy, such as double-headed weapons.

 Dwarf 

The CON bonus is best for the 'never say die' fighter that just keeps on going.  "Meat Shield".

 Elf 

Hard to beat the dex bonus for archers or finesse-based fighters.

 Gnome 

If you're up against giants, gnomes have some nice bennies.  Overall though, weaker than the other races.

 Half-elf 

Most of the benefits here, compared to the human, are not combat-related.  I wouldn't take this race for pure fighting gusto.

 Half-orc 

Great for a very high strength two-handed-weapon powerhitter.  Power attack!

 Halfling 

For a stealthy skirmisher, halflings are pretty good.


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## buzzard

Humans are IMHO best. The extra feat and extra skill points are extremely important. A fighter is a feat machine and every feat counts. 
Also unless you are going to be just a side of beef swinging a weapon, you better get that skill point bonus or you will be useless outside of combat. Sure a 1/2 Orc will hit hard, but between combats he will be dead weight. He won't see anything comming, and had better keep his trap shut because he can't talk his way out of a wet paper sack. He won't even have a dream of getting enough sense motive to not be raped by feinting. Skills are far to important to live with only 2 points per level when most skills are going to cost 2x. 

Buzzard


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## Henry

the only problem with trying to bulk up your skill points as a fighter is that the fighter will NEVER be good at skills, except for the class skills, which do not include sense motive, bluff, spot, listen, etc. Even if you are a human with an 18 INT. 2+1+4 = 7 points? and you've sacrificed your best score for improving one of the fighter's weakest areas. For RP purposes, it's dandy, but for being effective in the field you have chosen, it is a gross underutilization of your chosen path.

However, adding levels in classes that contain those needed skills (such as ranger, rogue, and barbarian), will net you far more in those needed skills than bolstering your intelligence. Is it really going to matter if the Half-orc has 1 or 2 skill points?

If you play a ranged fighter, halflings and elves (elves especially) will excel at it. If you wish to be a stone statue and a pretty good fighter, Dwarf is the choice. Humans and H-orcs make the best straight-up melee fighters, with humans being better for "finesse" fighters.


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## Wild Karrde

I'm also a fan of the human fighter.  Extra Feat really tips the scale early on.  And while it's true that perhaps later on in their adventuring career that extra feat isn't as important, I have a hard time dealing with the slower movement of a Dwarf.

In my group we have only one fighter and it is a dwarf.  Whenever there is distance to be covered to get into melee the Monk and Barbarian are always there way ahead of everyone with the ranger close behind and anyone with ranged weapons firing from a distance.  That stubby Dwarf gets there eventually bus sometimes it's over before he even gets started.  Unless he runs or double moves and then just stands there to get whacked.


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## Nail

We're talkin' about core races, I suppose.  PH only, eh?

For an all-'round fighter, one that can use th' ole boot leather an' still be versitile enough t' be called an' "adventurer", I'd have t' go wit' th' human.  Don' like 'em, personally, but the extra skill points an' feat, combined wit' their multi-class prowess, makes 'em th' best.

.....'Course, they're even better slow-roasted........

-Nail


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## Ridley's Cohort

I am with Elder-Basilisk on this one.

At very low levels, there is something to be said for that extra feat.  But in the long haul, Darkvision and +2 against magic is better than just one feat.

If you wear armor, both humans and dwarves are going to need magic to boost their movement in the long run anyway.

Giants do appear, at every level of play.

And the Con +2 will help you live.

Humans are better for some concept Fighters.  The extra feat and skill points are useful, say, if you are trying to put together a 5th level knight who is both deadly on a horse and still useful in a dungeon.

The extra feat starts looking good when you are multiclassing.  It is not important for someone picking up mostly Fighter levels.


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## Ace

Actually all races are good in one or more ways as fighters.
I can't choose.

A tip though, if you are playing a Dwarf a wonderfull Min Max is to take a level or two of Barbarian.

The increased speed is a huge asset and will work with tanks as long as the full plate is magic.
 Move 25 in full plate, not bad

If you arent going with tank then go with two levels for that awesome uncanny dodge.

 The extra fortitude save ,an extra +2 or +3 right of the bat, is really nice a third level Dwarf with a +11 Fortitude save is pretty easy to get .

Oh yeah and two extra hitpoints and rage and well.....


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## Rashak Mani

Give your Dwarf a level of Barbarian and he will go much faster... or Boots of Springin and Striding.  Or like myself get mounted and barbaric at the same time... Warpony good to go faster.


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## Number47

I voted halfling as well. Tough to hit, tough to magic, hard to defend against. Oh, and can anybody say "mounted indoors"? The human may have an extra feat, but that is never going to equal extra AC plus extra to-hit bonuses.


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