# What is your favourite Trek series, and why?



## Eternalknight (Jun 9, 2002)

Well?


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## RangerWickett (Jun 9, 2002)

The next generation had the ingenious explorative impulse of the original series, but it was far more developed and mature.  After the first season, Next Gen became a great series.  The actors were uniformly excellent, with enough diversity to have a huge array of episode styles (Data, Riker, and Picard are all very different), and a chemistry that just worked better.  I loved every character in The Next Generation, but only about half on DS9, and . . . two on Voyager.  The original series was too immature . . . too Roddenberry . . . to really compete.

Never saw the animated series much, but I imagine it'd be a lot like the original series.


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## TBoarder (Jun 9, 2002)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> *I loved every character in The Next Generation, but only about half on DS9, and . . . two on Voyager.  *




Two on Voyager?  That seems like two too many to me.


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## Crothian (Jun 9, 2002)

TOS was good, but I wasn';t around for the original run and thus could enjoy it in that context.  

TAS was just wierd.  I was never a big fan of it at all.  

TNG was excellent, my favorite.  Good acting, good stories and still creative.

DS9 I liked as well.  THe characters and stories were not as strong as TNG, but I really like the continued story line they did. 

Vayager was blah.   They had a few good episodes and some good characters, but when they added 7 of 9 and made her the most important character on the show, I started to like it even less.  

Enterprise has been hit and miss.  Some creative shows and good writing, but the characters still need to be fleshed out more.  And I'm not sure what to think of the meta plot.  We shall see.


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## Flinx (Jun 9, 2002)

Kind of a tough call for me between the original and TNG with the edge going to TNG.  As a kid I loved the original series and was one of those who saw every episode several times (although was not a full fledged Star Trek geek in that I didn't memorize every little detail and never went to a convention, I just enjoyed the show).  It was innovative, introduced many ideas which are still used today, addressed a lot of social issues which was different for a sci fi series, and was exciting. I still catch the occasional rerun on SciFi Channel and they hold up well.  

TNG meets all of the above criteria but also has (much) better acting and better special effects.   

DS9 didn't really get that good until after Worf joined the show.  After that it was great.  It comes in third so far.

I agree that Enterprise has been hit or miss but both TNG and DS9 didn't really take off until after the first season so only time will tell.  I do think that the show has a lot of potential.  

Voyager lost me after the first couple of seasons.  I tried to like it but just couldn't get into it.  

I don't remember much of the animated series.  I don't think it lasted more than one season.  I don't remember it being very good.


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## njrpg (Jun 9, 2002)

Deep Space 9 is my favorite for several reasons.  I love the continuity and the gradual buildup.  The Dominion War was awesome and all of the characters very interesting.  Even Dr. Bashir became interesting once we learned he was genetically enhanced.  I like the fact the Sisko was not afraid to break protocol and take risks.


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## Ranger REG (Jun 9, 2002)

Gotta agree with njrpg above, although I have been trying to grasp the half-prophet thing. Fortunately, he didn't have any exceptional powers until the end, when he "ascends" to the Celestial Temple and going to study there for a "while."

The stories were well-written especially when they used the Dominion War story arc, most of the episodes were well-directed and well-acted. We got to explore more on the Klingon culture (of which I am a fan of). They make the Ferengi more decent than _TNG_ version. Brought the Romulans into a temporary alliance against a common enemy. Despite his end, Gul Dukat makes an interesting antagonist, which is not necessarily villainous ALL THE TIME.

_DS9_ focuses not just the Bajorans but the Cardassians. We also get to know more about the symbiotic worm/host of the Trills. And of course, Odo's species, the shapeshifting Founders of the Dominion.

You know, for a space station that don't go anywhere but stay in such a volatile frontier space, it makes for an interesting stage.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. It took me a while, but I have come to love that "tough little ship" (as Wil Riker once remarked in _Star Trek: First Contact_) despite my initial rejection of a new starfleet ship design. ("What?!?!!! The warp drives are tucked in?!?!!!)


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jun 9, 2002)

Since Enterprise hasn`t started yet in Germany, and I never saw the Animated Series, I am a bittle more limited in choice.

1.) Deep Space Nine.
At first, it was difficult the differences with DS9 - it was a Space Station, not a starship, and that made many things at the series unlike the earlier two series. But the storyline became interesting - there WAS a storyline, and several old Startrek traditions seemed to be broken (the good federation had some darker parts, and not everything went well and fair... )
After I read a book about the Making of Deep Space Nine, that was really well written, i liked DS9 even more. 
2.) Startrek The Next Generation is the close second.
The atmosphere was a bit more... sterile, as in DS9 - basic Startrek, so to say - but it had many good stories, and the actors were good. (Patrick Steward is great.  )
The movies were so-so. Generations had many plot holes. First Contact was great Action movie and involved the borg. 
Startrek IX is not my favorite movie, but it is still good.
3.) The Original Series. 
The Classics. I liked it. My first real Science Fiction Experience. 
The movies II, III, IV and VI were good (IV and VI my favorites...)
The novels that are written in that era are also very interesting.
4.) Voyager.
Voyager is not really bad, but it never was really good. I watched (or at least tried to) every episode, and there were some highlights. But to get really well, the had to use plot devies like borg or Species 8742 (I liked the scene where we see them destroying several borg cubes at once.  There is always a bigger fish in the sea). But I did not feel sad when the series ended, unlike TNG or DS9. 
(Hehe. Or even the end of a buffy season  )


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## Turlogh (Jun 9, 2002)

The original series. The Kirk/Spock McCoy trinity had a comradeship not seen in any of the other series.

DS9= boring
TNG had the worst characters ever (The Crushers) mixed with some average (Picard, Riker, Troi) and some really good Worf Data and Jordi. A mixed bag for me all in all.
Voyager seemed scattered and rather directionless ( kind of ironic in that)
Enterprise haven't seen enough of to judge yet.


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## Doc_Subtlety (Jun 10, 2002)

I voted for DS9.
IMO:

TOS:
The Original Series shouldn't be in the same category with the other shows.  Apples and oranges, as far as I'm concerned.  That said, I'd still rather watch "Trials and Tribble-a-tions" than "The Trouble With Tribbles." 

TNG:
This was a good, solid show.  I loved most of the characters - even the Crushers and Troi eventually grew on me.  (Doc Crusher taking command of the Enterprise in "Descent" was excellent, as was Troi's bridge officer test.)

The only thing that really bugged me about it was that it was too formula, and not enough arc.  I loved episodes that actually connected to each other.

DS9:
This had everything I liked about TNG, except specific characters, but it also had more unusual stories, and it had an overall arc.  Plus, the show itself was gritty - I really liked seeing the Trek universe from someplace *other* than the bridge of a Starfleet flagship. 

Plus, it had my favorite episode of all time: "In the Pale Moonlight."  It's the one where Sisko allowed a Romulan ambassador to be assassinated, in order to turn the war around?  One of the finest hours of TV I've ever seen. 

So, DS9 wins. 

(I did have a few complaints about the show: the prophets started out really cool, but ended up lame in the final season, and Gul Dukat turned from a complex, layered villain to a comic book freak...but the show accomplished so many other things that those are forgivable flaws.)

Voyager:
This show was garbage.  It had a few really good episodes.  It did.  I actually liked the adventures of Captain Proton (sue me  ), and I really liked "Timeless."  

But overall, it was just garbage.  Among other flaws: 
- They ruined the Borg. 
- Captain Kirkina - I mean, "Janeway," was criminally insane.  (This is what happens when a loose cannon like that doesn't let off steam with green alien space babes - the frustrations makes them blow *everything* up, instead of just Klingons.  )
- They killed Kes!  (Those bastards!)
- It didn't just lack story arc.  It lacked continuity entirely.

I could go on, but...meh.

Enterprise:
I've watched 2 whole episodes.  (Sat down for 4, but I hit reruns twice.  Bad omen.  )

It's okay.  Definitely better than Voyager - from what little I've seen, the show is at least internally consistent.  But it really just felt like a rehash of other shows, so it couldn't hold my interest.  Same old aliens (even Ferengi), same old plots, same old bridge crew.  

I wish they'd done something creative, this time around.


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## Shadowdancer (Jun 10, 2002)

I voted for TNG over DS9, but just barely. I found the quality of the TNG episodes to be more consistant than DS9. When DS9 was good, it was really good, but when it was bad, it could be awful.

I never really liked the original series. I saw some of it in its original run as a kid, and saw just about every episode in syndication, also as a kid. One of my sisters loved it and we had to watch it every afternoon after school. Back in the days before cable TV, we only got two stations, and only had one TV, so we didn't have a lot of choices. I watched the original Star Trek, but never really liked it.

The animated series was a little bit better than the original series.

I never got into Voyager. The episodes I saw didn't impress me.

I like Enterprise so far. I think it has a lot of potential. It ranks third in my voting.


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## Tempuswolf (Jun 10, 2002)

It was a hard choice between good old *Star Trek*, *Star Trek* the Sat. morning animated show (remember the Kzintis & slaver weapons!), and *Star Trek: Deep Space Nine*, but I've got to give it to *DS9*.

I whole heartedly agree with Doc Subtlety, the episode *"In the Pale Moonlight"* should have been recognized with an Emmy nomination.  Seeing Benjamin Sisko, a good man, struggle with his conscience over a desperate, evil act to bring the Romulans into the Dominion war was just damn good television.

Besides having a great stable of regulars who played off each other superbly (Miles & Julian, Julian & Dax, Dax & Benjamin, etc.), I really loved the supporting characters: Kai Wynn, Vedic Berail, Keiko O'Brien, The Female Changeling, Wayoun, Sloan.  My favorite character would have to be Garrick, his acerbic wit and urbane veneer thinly veiled his essential dangerousness.  He was a great foil for the Federation mind set.


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## Jaws (Jun 10, 2002)

*I like Enterprise*

I watched the original Star Trek as a kid. It was fun then. Every Sunday before church. You couldn't ask me to watch it now.

I didn't get back into Star Trek until near the end of The Next Generation. I was on vacation in San Jose, Ca for three weeks when one the cable stations out there had a TNG marathon. Shown most of the ones where Data was the main character.
You could watch Star Trek practicully anytime out there with all the cable stations that was showing them. 

Deep Space Nine I rarely watched. I didn't like any of the characters except Worf. And my opinion was already made before he came along.

I thought Voyager had a good start but then went downhill. 7 of 9 was cool at first but got old fast.

I have seen every episode of Enterprise (I Think). I really like all the characters and I'm a fan of Scott Bakula. Loved Quantum Leap. The cliffhanger at the end of the season has me skeptical though. I hope they don't mess this up.

I have never seen the animated series that I can remember.

1. Enterprise
2. The Next Generation
3. Star Trek
4. Voyager
5. Deep Space Nine

Peace and smiles 

j.


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## Wolf72 (Jun 10, 2002)

RangerWicket old pal ... you need to re-watch the pilot episode and first season of ST:tNG  ... Worf's growl is almost literally saying "GRRRRRRR" ... 

and yet I can remember liking it the first time I saw it too

My vote is for Enterprise, the original series shouldn't even count ... as the first it's got a special place no matter which series you like best.


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## KnowTheToe (Jun 11, 2002)

The Next Generation was probably the best, but 7 of 9, wow!  I had to vote for Voyager.  Sorry for the shallowness of the post, I will blame it on hormonal imbalance or my parents, you choose.


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## Purple (Jun 11, 2002)

I too went with DS9.  While I enjoyed TNG quite a bit, and have really started to get into Enterprise, DS9 to me shows the universe of Star Trek the best.  Not just Starfleet, but Bajor and Cardassians all around.  

It also had some of the best supporting characters - Gul Dukat (the first ~4 seasons), Garack and Kai Winn.  She is the only character on any show that I can actively remember hating every time she was shown.  Shame she didn't have a worse end. 

-Purple


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## Tempuswolf (Jun 12, 2002)

Purple said:
			
		

> *...Kai Winn.  She is the only character on any show that I can actively remember hating every time she was shown.  Shame she didn't have a worse end.
> 
> -Purple *




 She burned _too_ fast for your liking, huh?  Flash fried was too good for her?   I think she got her turn on the karmic wheel when she found out that she had been sleeping with Ducat.


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## Doc_Subtlety (Jun 12, 2002)

Leaping back in to agree with the people who mentioned Garrick.  That "simple tailor" was my favorite character in Trek history.  

(Although Picard, Sisko, Kira and Odo all deserve honorable mention.)


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## Storminator (Jun 22, 2002)

I voted for TOS, as the classic and innovative in so many ways. TNG was obviously of higher quality, but was much less daring. 

Voyager was such a disappointment. As a concept it had such promise, but the execution was so abyssmal. One of the central ideas of Star Trek is the ultra civilization of the Federation. Problems of crime, poverty, and simple human failings are largely absent from society as a whole. Voyager should have played on the theme of gentle drift from that ideal. Forced to survive on their own, the crew should have degenerated into a desperate band of thugs, losing original (and by implication upstanding) crew members and replacing them with locals (naturally the riff-raff of space).

By the time Voyager returned to Federation space, they should have been a bunch of barbarians the Federation was appalled to call their own.

But nooooooooo.

PS


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## Fyrie (Jun 22, 2002)

Enterprize: Why? The song baby, the song!


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jun 22, 2002)

I heard that in Startrek X (Nemesis), Captain Picard will meet Admiral Janeway!

That is not fair! 
The Captain of one of the best shows is still only Captain, while Janeway, the Captain of the worst Startrek show became an Admiral. 
And probably Riker is still just a Commander... 


Mustrum Ridcully


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## Viking Bastard (Jun 22, 2002)

Picard was offered Admiral-ship twice, but turned it down both times.

And remember that discussion between him and Kirk in GEN?

Kirk pretty much says: "Don't get promoted, it's BORING!"


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## Ranger REG (Jun 22, 2002)

Twice? I thought he was offered once. The other time, he was offered the position of Commandant of Starfleeet Academy.

Riker has turned down 3 command assignments with captaincy.

Nah, I'm glad they promoted Janeway to a desk job, even though she can order subordinate Captains to any task ... just as long she remain behind the desk and not in the Captain's Chair.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jun 23, 2002)

So, from this point of view, it is okay. That is true... Maybe it is really better this way. 
But, on the other side - as a captain, Janeway lost dozens of shuttles. What will she lose as an Admiral?


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## Ashtal (Jun 23, 2002)

TNG rocked da house.

Why?  Besides being a strong show, with a diverse and interesting cast, I have one word to say:   DATA.

Cutest Android Ever.


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## Ranger REG (Jun 24, 2002)

*BADA-BOOM!*

OIC. You have a thing for animate object with no emotion, like a battery-operated se-, ... um, massager.  

Just Kidding.

_* ducks for cover *_


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jun 24, 2002)

Every Startrek show needs a Spock/Data/Odo/HoloDoc.


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## LightPhoenix (Jun 24, 2002)

I voted for DS9, without hesitation.  Why?  

(Warning, this is primarily justifying DS9 over TNG.  TOS and Voyager just blew, IMO, and Enterprise hasn't been on long enough)

1) The supporting cast on DS9 was better than any of the others.  Not that the others had much of a supporting cast, but the very nature of DS9 being on a space station allows for more of one.

2)  The arc.  I would have liked TNG a lot more if there was a point to it.  Conversely, it's exactly why I hated Voyager so much - they had a very interesting premise and destroyed it.  No, DS9's arc wasn't that original (or original at all, if you believe in the DS9/B5 ripoff), but at least teh show had a direction.

3)  Avery Brooks is the man.  He's what I imagine when I think of a captain.

4)  I found the characters to be a little more interesting than TNGs, and a little more realistic I think.  I just don't see a man turning down captain-ship three times because he likes where he is.  Everyone was a little too goody-two-shoes for me on TNG.

-1)  On the other hand, I hated the Ferengi and Holodeck episodes.  Especially the Ferengi ones, which made them more slapstick than the greedy, coniving little bastards they usually are.


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## beta-ray (Jun 25, 2002)

I picked DS9...

Although I have to applaud TOS for starting it all and having some of the best comraderie of all the series so far, I couldn't pick it as #1.

I loved TNG for what it did to TOS... it took it (and in its third season) matured it and gave it some volume. Picard and Data are great characters...

DS9 really put a spin on Trek. Now trek was responsible. No longer just go to a planet, mess it up and go away, DS9 had to live with consequences. TNG at times got preachy and DS9 explored those themes. Although not all of its episodes were great, overall the show stayed consistent. Plus it wasn't just a couple of characters in the show that were interesting, ALL of the characters (to me) were interesting... EVEN the side characters. My favorite quote from DS9 "It's easy to be a saint in paradise".

Voyager... well... there were a couple of okay episodes in Voy, but it never lived up to its potential. They had the blandest characters (I liked the doc) of any of the series thus far. What normally would happen is that they'd have a pretty cool premise and beef it up with action and then totally blow it with a crappy resolution. Besides Janeway was NUTS.

TAS was okay, but amusing at best I think. Maybe yesteryear and the slaver weapon was cool.

Enterprise.... not a bad start... most of the characters are somewhat bland, but it's okay so far.

All just my opinion of course.


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## Ashtal (Jun 25, 2002)

*Re: BADA-BOOM!*



			
				Ranger REG said:
			
		

> *OIC. You have a thing for animate object with no emotion, like a battery-operated se-, ... um, massager.
> 
> Just Kidding.
> 
> * ducks for cover * *




HEE!

No ... okay, yes, he's damn cute, but most of the time I was rooting for him to get his emotion chip in.    I dunno ... there was something about the way Data was always trying to be more human that I thought was more compelling than Spock's aloofness, 7 of 9's scorn, and Odo's arrogance.   He seemed so sincere and genuine and I identified with the way he was always trying to connect with people, to understand why they were doing what they were doing.

Granted, I still love Spock, and Odo to a lesser extent, though it does get annoying when I watch the Trek Monolith continue to recycle the "what does it mean to be human" motif - now with T'pol.   At least they've gone to lengths to give it a different spin each time, although personally I thought 7 of 9 was the weakest permutation.  She was mostly there because of other ... 'assets' that I think in some ways got in the way of telling her story.  Then again, Voyager's cast never seemed to gel the way the others did.

And I do regret not keeping up with DS9.  It seems that near the end, they finally got it in there head that ongoing storylines that change things over time is a GOOD thing, but by then, I could never catch it regularly and I was missing a ton of backstory.


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## hong (Jun 25, 2002)

Somehow it seems appropriate to mention my Cyborger result again:








Hong "Data has nothing on me" Ooi


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## Aaron L (Jun 25, 2002)

Close tie between TNG and DS9, but DS9 finally won out.  TNG was amazing, but the first season, and much of the second, was really horrible!   DS9 had a much more consitently good career.  TOS was way to sporadic, with some episodes being so good as to be classic, and some being... well, Spocks Brain.



Watch out, what's this?
M.O.R.R.U.S.: 
Mechanical Organism Responsible for Repair and Ultimate Sabotage


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## Scribe Ineti (Jul 1, 2002)

*DS9 all the way*

For so many reasons, but especially for this one...

(paraphrasing Ira Steven Behr)

TNG showed us what a Paradise the Federation is, but DS9 showed us how hard it is to maintain that Paradise.

DS9 had the strongest supporting cast and some of the best Trek writers.  It detailed the Cardassians and the Bajorans.  It's one of the few TV shows that featured a strong father-son relationship (and even more rare that it was a black* father and son).  Aaand, the series lead and captain was also a religious figure.  How often do you see that on TV?

The continuity from show to show is unique among Trek series (though Enterprise is working on it).  And, the writers  _had guts._  The second season opened with a three-parter, the sixth season opened with a six-part arc, and the seventh season closed with a monster multi-episode arc (I think it was 8 or 9 episodes).  That's TV story-telling at its best.

----------------------------
* - Please note that no disrespect is intended by this term.


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## Miho (Jul 28, 2002)

Hmm... Tricky one...

The original series was fantastic - predictable, but fantastic. It was certainly more action orientated than any following series.

Next Generation I grew up watching and so will always be good. Much more character orientated, with depth to all of the people and plots.

Deep Space Nine I also really enjoyed. I liked the overall story arc in it, it had new interesting ideas. It was a grower - took me a good few episodes to get into when it first started but once I did I was hooked.

Voyager - obsolute load of tosh. Can't stand the characters, can't believe they made the first female captain on Star Trek sooo irritating (at least she didn't command The Enterprise), no really good aliens species, infact the only redeming feature was the holodoc. I found him really interesting - but maybe that was because he's very like Data and I LOVE Data.

Enterprise has only had two episodes on terrestrial tv over here so I can't comment on that yet - but I like it so far. I'm a big Scott Bakula fan, he just has pure charisma!

I've never seen the animated series either.

So who gets my vote.....

It just has to be The Next Generation!! Picard and Data every time!


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## gamecat (Jul 28, 2002)

TOS.

The only thing Voyager proved is that women SHOULD NOT DRIVE.


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## LostSoul (Jul 29, 2002)

I'm surprised that so many people like The Next Generation.  I've been watching reruns lately, and I can't tell the characters apart.  They all seem to act the same way (that is, in the "Starfleet Approved" way) every time they face some kind of conflict.  Sometimes they don't, and it doesn't make any sense at all.

Star Trek (the original series) dealt with mature issues, especially for the time.  I don't think any of the other series were as risky, considering the day and age.


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## Black Omega (Jul 29, 2002)

1.  TNG.  Part nostalgia, I suppose, but it made me like Trek.  I liked Picard, Data, Worf, and Riker did get better...  It had it's glitches and continuity issues but captured the spirit of Trek well.

2.  DS9.    I missed alot of it after the first season totally lost me.  But it did get much better, though using many of the same things I thought B5 did better.  And it had Worf, so I can't say anything bad about the show.

After that it goes downhill quickly.  TOS is hard to rate because for the time it was groundbreaking, daring.  And for someone who wasn't even born when it was being all daring, it's not all that groundbreaking and daring anymore.  I liked it at the same time I liked Dark Shadows, another show I have difficulty watching now.

Voyager was just bad.  As was TAS, from what little I saw.  Enterprise has just been boring me, but even when I like something he's in I tend to dislike Bakula's acting.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 29, 2002)

In defense of _TNG,_ the series also tackles social issues of our time as well as moral issues, such as one society selling "addictive" medicine to another society, the right to die, challenging the Prime Directive, the mistreatment of prisoners of war, etc.


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## Miho (Jul 29, 2002)

I never reaslised Voyager was so unpopular before. I always thought it was just me who thought it was crap. Nice to see it's not


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## uv23 (Jul 29, 2002)

The power of the relationship between the characters of TOS will never be matched by any other show, let alone any other star trek series.

TNG started off crap but became enjoyable enough. I never watch the reruns though.

Voyager was absolute e. Enough romance and self-gratifying good deeds to make even a paladin squirm.

DS9 had its moments and I enjoyed some of the grit, but the whole wormhole aliens thing was bogus and again, way too much in the harlequin department.

Enterprise started off on the right foot, then quickly stumbled and proceeded to hobble onto its left foot, becoming so much more romantic intrigue, lawful stupidity, and becoming entangled in its own bogus time travel theme (down with time travel.. down with holodecks.)


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## Heretic Apostate (Jul 30, 2002)

*Star Trekking*

(a funny song for T.O.S.)

Chorus: Star Trekking, across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise, under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekking, across the universe,
Only going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse. 


Lt. Uhura, report!

Uhura: There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow,
starboard bow.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow, [again].


Analysis!, Mister Spock!

Spock: It's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it,
not as we know it.
It's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it, Captain.


Uhura: There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow,
starboard bow.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow, again.


Chorus: Star Trekking, across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise, under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekking, across the universe,
Only going forward, still can't find reverse.


Medical update, Doctor McCoy

McCoy: It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim.
Dead, Jim.
Dead, Jim.
It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim.
Dead, Jim, Dead.


Spock: It's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it,
not as we know it.
It's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it, Captain.


Uhura: There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow,
starboard bow.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow, Jim!


Starship Captain, James T. Kirk

Kirk: Ha-ha! We come in peace, shoot to kill,
shoot to kill,
shoot to kill.
We come in peace, shoot to kill,
shoot to kill, men.


McCoy: It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim.
Dead, Jim.
Dead, Jim.
It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim.
Dead, Jim, Dead.


Spock: Well, it's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it,
not as we know it.
It's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it, Captain.


Uhura: There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow,
starboard bow.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
scrape 'em off, Jim.


Chorus: Star Trekking, across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise, under Captain Kirk!
Star Trekking, across the universe,
Only going forward, and things are getting worse!


Engine room, Mister Scott

Scotty: Ye canna change the laws of physics,
laws of physics,
laws of physics!
Ye canna change the laws of physics,
laws of physics, Jim!


Kirk: Oh, we come in peace, shoot to kill,
shoot to kill,
shoot to kill!
We come in peace, shoot to kill,
Scotty, beam me up!


McCoy: It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim!
Dead, Jim!
Dead, Jim!
It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim!
Dead, Jim, Dead!


Spock: Well, it's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it,
not as we know it.
It's life, Jim, but not as we know it,
not as we know it, Captain.


Uhura: There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow,
starboard bow.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow,
starboard bow, aaagain!


Scotty: Ye canna change the script, Jim! Och, the engines 
McCoy: It's worse than that, it's physics, Jim! 
Kirk: Bridge to engine room, warp factor nine! 
Scotty: Ach! If I give 'er any more she'll blow [, Captain]! 


<< boom >>
Na..na..na..na..na..na..na..na..na

Chorus: Star Trekking, across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise, under Captain Kirk!
Star Trekking, across the universe,
Only going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse!

Star Trekking, across the universe,
On the Starship Enterprise, under Captain Kirk.
Star Trekking, across the universe,
Only going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.


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## evildmguy (Dec 16, 2002)

*Enterprise by far*

Okay, this is going to start something but I want to preface this by saying this is all my opinion.

As someone else said, TOS stands alone.  It has affected us culturally more than many other shows and has stood the test of time.  I might not like watching some of the acting but it opened up so many doors for so many other good things.

So, sticking to the "current" shows:

#4 Voyager - I watched the first two seasons before I was completely turned off by this show.  Completely.  My issues were mainly continuity.  This show should have had the most continuity of any show but had less than TNG.  I also got sick of Janeway's preachiness.  I kept feeling as if she knew they were going to get home, which wasn't certain as per the finale, and so that's why she clung to the Starfleet ideals.  Starfleet has great ideals but if it is going to take 70 years to get home, those ideals just might be lost.  It tried but it just didn't work for me.  

I have more issues but I will leave it at this.  

#3 DS9 - Okay, this is third because I watched it more than Voyager and I did watch the finale but it lost me after three or four seaons.  I LOVE B5.  B5 had a plan from day 1.  DS9 did not.  I didn't appreciate that they claimed to have had a plan, that strangely ended up being nearly exactly like B5s, in the Trek universe, AFTER B5s plots were known.  I also have issues with the Sisco and Worf characters.  

This is a good show, though.  I like O'Brien, Bashir and Kira.  I liked Gul Ducat as a villain.  I liked the tailor Cardassian.  (name?) I liked Kai Win for how irritating she was in doing what she thought best.  They had some excellent episodes with her.  I liked the development of the Bjorans and Cardassians, rather than coming up with new species.  I also liked the Defiant.  All in all, a good series.  

#2 TNG - Okay, season one is painful to watch.  (And my wife and I recently did on DVD.)  After that, this series gets it right and keeps going.  I have to complaints about them.  Again, no continuity.  (I heard that DS9 was better about this but I don't know as I never saw the Dominion Wars.)  They did have some continuity but sometimes it is so subtle.  It is only by seeing them in a row that you can even see the continuity.  

Good characters.  Riker, Data, Geordi, Picard, Barclay, Q are all reasons to watch the show.  Also, I loved how they finally started doing multiple plots as well as side things such as the poker games.  (Watch Season 1 and how each episode is only about ONE thing.  I think it took until mid way season 2 before they stopped doing that.)  Stories were interesting but again sometimes some follow up would have been nice.  

#1 Enterprise - Okay, complete continuity here.  In one episode, they are traveling towards a planet.  It takes them two more episodes to get there and it is talked about the entire way.  Well done!  An over-arcing theme is much better, imo, than individual episodes where you forget that you just lost your best friend just yesterday, as happened on the other shows.  

Enterprise is also unique in that it gets to make excellent references.  It does assume knowledge but no more than most people probably have due to TOS.  For example, when they first encountered the Romulans, that was excellent.  As they talk about technology or any developments, it is interesting knowing what will happen.  Great things there.

I think the thing that has won me over, though, is that I like, or at least don't dislike, all of the characters on Enterprise.  There is no sub plot or character development that I don't like to see.  Therefore, all of it is interesting.  

That's just my two gold pressed latinums worth.  

edg


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## Hand of Evil (Dec 17, 2002)

Being of an age where I saw Star Trek when it first came out... 

TOS - it was a time of thinking about what the future would bring.  About reaching for the stars and travelling to places only heard about.  Science fiction was at the threshold of becoming science fact and you knew it.

Star Trek: OS capture that feeling.  

I guess you have to have grown up during that time, JFK, MLK, freedom, peace corp, moon landing, hippies, and all the other stuff, it was in the background of your life.  As a kid you don't realize the impact that those events play but they are part of things, STOS touched on them and related to them and I related to it.


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## Eternalknight (Dec 17, 2002)

Wow.  How in heck did this old thread get dug up?


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## John Crichton (Dec 17, 2002)

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> *Wow.  How in heck did this old thread get dug up?  *



Good question.    I will however, add my 2 cents...

TOS, before my time but I am a big fan of it.  However, not my favorite (it's an age thing).  However, the movies with that crew are FAR better than the 3 Nex Gen movies I have seen (I have yet to see Nemesis).

TNG was great.  I even dug the first season which had some very strong eps.  It had the best series finale I have ever seen as well in "All Good Things."  The final realization of the Q/Picard relationship and tying things to the beginning of the journey was classic.

DS9 was great as well.  I didn't start to really like it until Worf came aboard.  I never loved his character but about that time the plot really started to kick in.  I agree with previous posters about the cast and supporting members (esp. Garrack).  Strong all around as was the story.  However the final episode still leaves a a sour taste in my mouth which dampens the entire series just a tad.  I can justify everything that happened there, but it still never felt right (Odo's choice, etc.).  I think that maybe they needed another year (or just a few eps) to truly finish things but oh well...

Voyager was dreck.  I didn't watch (or finish) many eps at all.  Was simply not entertaining.  There were one or 2 eps that I liked and the only interesting characters were Seven (I thought she was the best actor on the show, see Boston Public) and Tuvok.  The captain was uninteresting and brought the show down considerably.  Shows how important the captain is to the overall success of a Trek series.

Enterprise is fun.  I like the entire cast, Bakula isn't Kirk or Picard but I like him as an actor.  I think he will get better with time.  The 1 1/2 seasons so far have shown promise.  Honestly, I didn't expect to like it at all after and during the Voyager disaster.  I had given up on the Trek franchise.  So take what you will from that.


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## Villano (Dec 17, 2002)

First off, I don't get UPN, so I can't judge Enterprise.  I'm very curious about it since I've seen such mixed reviews of it.

That said, I'd go with DS9.  The characters had much more depth than on any of the other Trek shows I've seen.  This is probably the result of having an actual continuity as opposed to relying on stand alone episodes.

However, even its stand alone episodes were good.  One of my favorites was when Quark's brother (Nog?) tried to oganize a union.

Granted, the show wasn't perfect.  In some respects, it seemed as if it was trying to follow in the trail of B5.  Also, I wasn't thrilled with the way they ended it.

I really loved Next Gen when it originally aired, but I find that the reruns don't hold up quite as well as TOS.  About the only episodes I watch are the ones with the Klingons (I love the Klingons...When are we going to get a series just about them?).

OTOH, I don't think any of the series produced an episode as good as the one when Picard was tortured ("I see FOUR lights!").

The cartoon was blah.  Typical Filmation crap with (very) limited animation and forgetable stories.

Voyager was the Anti-Christ of Star Trek.  God, how I hated that series.  As soon as the pilot began, I began to loathe it.  I forced myself to watch the whole thing and, I think, I made it all the way through the first season before turning it off.

For a time, I lived in NYC in an apartment without cable, so I saw a handful of more episodes, but that was due to having literally no other choice.  Those were all just as bad.

The only characters I could stomach were the doctor and the half-klingon girl.  I wanted the captain to die a long, slow, horrible death. 

I wanted the series to end by having the crew turned into Borg.


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## Mr Fidgit (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: Enterprise by far*



			
				evildmguy said:
			
		

> * I liked the tailor Cardassian.  (name?)  *



Garek (Garrak, Garak, Garrack? - you get the idea )


			
				Villano said:
			
		

> *Quark's brother (Nog?) *



Rom, Nog was Rom's son

yep, i voted DS9


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## Orius (Dec 20, 2002)

Here's how I break them down:

1: DS9
2: TOS/Enterprise (tied for second place)
4: TNG
5: Voyager


Deep Space Nine comes in first, because it has the best characters and best plots overall.  Sure, the series started out slow, but there was real character development that seemed believeable.  And of all the Trek series DS9 had the most in-depth exploaration of the Trek universe.  The other series for the most part explores a planed or race in a single episode, or a small handful f episodes at most, and then never returns to them.  That's a very broad, but shallow exploration.  DS9 has a lot of broad exploration as well, but we also explore a number of cultures more deeply throught the run of the series: the Klingons, the Ferengi, the Cardassians, the Bajorans, and the major players in the Dominion.  The Romulans and Trill get some exposeure too, but not as much.  (The Romulans really seem to get shafted throughout Trek.  They have some of the greatest potential as villains, yet it doesn't get tapped as it should.)

TOS is the original.  It was at times, thought provoking, and challenged a lot of perceptions of the time.  But in some ways, it seems dated.  And for every good episode like "City on the Edge of Forever", you get crap like "Spock's Brain" or "The Way to Eden".  Then there's classical Trek silliness that makes it hard to take seriously: red shirts, "I dinna know how much more she can take Captain!", "I'm a doctor, not a...".  Still without TOS, none of the other would even exist.

Enterprise is still relativly new, so it's not as easy to judge.  But it has a number of good points.  It pays homage to TOS a lot more than the others did.  There's good characters, and we see some good relationships turning up: Archer-T'Pol-Trip mirroring the classic Kirk-Spock-McCoy trio, yet with its own unique dimension (such as the sexual tention between Archer and T'Pol).  You have Trip an Malcom's friendship, which is vaguely reminiscent of O'Brien and Bashir's friendship in DS9.  T'Pol playing a sort of mentor role towards Hoshi.  Having good relationships like this give the show something to build upon.  There's Phlox, who's sort of and outsider, but with character quirks that make him interesting without being too weird.  A few disappointments; the plots tend to be a bit cliched even for Trek, the Suliban storyline doesn't get a lot of airtime, and Travis seems very undeveloped in comparison to the rest of the crew.

TNG may have been the most popular and respectable of all the Trek series, and I give it credit for that.  But it has a lot of boring episodes.  Also, it seems to ignore the existance of TOS at times, and when it does reference it, it often doesn't do it well.  The show in many places seems pompous and takes itself _way_ too seriously.  Also, especially in the earier episodes, it's beginnig to show its age.  Character development was erratic.  Picard got to be likeable.  Riker started off well, but degenerated into a buffoon.  I never found Crusher and Troi's branching off into command responsibilities to be convincing.  Data was alright, but his quest to become more human started wearing thin near the end.  Worf, who was added to the cast as and afterthought by Roddenberry, evolves into a pivotal character.

Voyager "wins" last place easily.  The concept itself was bad.  I have a hard time imagining that the Maquis wouldn't eventually mutiny.  Janeway was horribly portrayed.  I believe that's because the producers seemed to think a strong female character = an independant female character.  It didn't work.  Janeway is not a team player, yet Starfleet captains need to be team players, and all the other captains are, though in different ways.  She's got a huge ego, and makes very bad tactical decisions.  I can only conclude that Starfleet doesn't have psychological evalutations for command personnel, because Janeway would likely have failed them (I would love to see how badly she botched things in the Kobayashi Maru, though <eg>).  The Doctor ripped off to many of McCoy's mannerisms, and there were way too many episodes with him towards the end.  The same with Seven of Nine.  She wasn't a bad character, but she got overused.  I hated Neelix's overly cheerful attitude.  The other characters were boring and never got any development. How could they with Janeway's huge ego browbeating them and Seven and the Doctor hogging the spotlight?


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## Orius (Dec 20, 2002)

Purple said:
			
		

> *It also had some of the best supporting characters - Gul Dukat (the first ~4 seasons), Garack and Kai Winn.  She is the only character on any show that I can actively remember hating every time she was shown.  Shame she didn't have a worse end.
> *




I was disappointed with how they handled Winn.  I didn't like that they simply turned her into another villain.  Dukat ended badly as well; we went from being a sort of Cardassian patriot to an "I'm evil now I'm going to destroy the world" villainous lunatic.


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## Orius (Dec 20, 2002)

Tempuswolf said:
			
		

> *
> 
> She burned too fast for your liking, huh?  Flash fried was too good for her?   I think she got her turn on the karmic wheel when she found out that she had been sleeping with Ducat. *




I like how she treated Dukat after he went blind by trying to read the evil scriptures -- she kicked him out onto the street so he could make his way by begging.


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## Orius (Dec 20, 2002)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> *Twice? I thought he was offered once. The other time, he was offered the position of Commandant of Starfleeet Academy.*




I think Section 31 has something to do with that.  Remember at the end of "The Pegasus" when he revealed the secret Fed.  cloaking device to the Romulans, and Admiral Pressman says something about having friends in high places?  Gee, I wonder who those friends could be?  There's evidence that Section 31 goes all the way up to the top brass in Starfleet.

And this probably isn't the first time Picard did stuff like that.  They probably won't promote him as punishment.  Remember that when he was offered to head up Starfleet Academy, a lot of the top brass were under the control of those alien parasites.



> *
> Riker has turned down 3 command assignments with captaincy.
> *




That's 'cause he turned into a huge wuss as the series progressed.


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## Orius (Dec 20, 2002)

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> *Wow.  How in heck did this old thread get dug up?  *




Tell me.  I submitted my own response, and responded to some of the messages before noticing the thread dated back to June. (I should have guessed it from some of the messages that talked about the Enterprise cliffhanger.)   Ugh.  I generally don't like to participate in old discussions that have generally died down.  Oh well.


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## Eternalknight (Dec 20, 2002)

Orius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Tell me.  I submitted my own response, and responded to some of the messages before noticing the thread dated back to June. (I should have guessed it from some of the messages that talked about the Enterprise cliffhanger.)   Ugh.  I generally don't like to participate in old discussions that have generally died down.  Oh well. *




Ah well.  It's all good


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## Alzrius (Dec 20, 2002)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> *The Next Generation had the ingenious explorative impulse of the original series, but it was far more developed and mature.  After the first season, Next Gen became a great series.  The actors were uniformly excellent, with enough diversity to have a huge array of episode styles (Data, Riker, and Picard are all very different), and a chemistry that just worked better.  I loved every character in The Next Generation, but only about half on DS9, and . . . two on Voyager.  The original series was too immature . . . too Roddenberry . . . to really compete.*




Testify! I could not have said it better myself!


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## evildmguy (Dec 20, 2002)

*If I may*

Without being defensive, as everyone is allowed their opinion, I think that TNG had more obstacles than even TOS and did as well as it could for its time.  

Let me explain where I am coming from and why I think that.  

TV is an evolution.  Today, things are aired that would have gotten X ratings 50 years ago.  They wouldn't have been suitable for TV.  For example, congress, hot on the heels of McCarthy, actually passed a decency act about what could be shown on TV.  That's why no parents in the 50s shows ever slept in the same bed!  

TV, especially non SciFi, also has NEVER accurately depicted real life.  Ever.  While it is good fantasy, I think people forget that TV *doesn't* try and be real.  In some cases, it is because real life is too strange to accurately show.  In other cases, its because life is too complicated to show.  

I say that non SciFi only because in SciFi, usually there aren't unrealistic love triangles or everyone sleeping with everyone that you get in dramas.  While there might be tension, usually SciFi doesn't cross that boundary.  (And when they do, X-Files, is usually when the show "jumps the shark".)  

The other thing to remember is that TV is what Marx would call the opiate of masses today.  It is the Roman equivalent of the arena.  It keeps most people, myself included, entertained and happy.  In including myself, though, I try and stay away from garbage.  Entertaining SciFi and character developing series are what draw me to TV.  Not mindless banter that some Exec thinks is good TV.  ("People watch the crap on TV for the same reason that Eskimoes eat blubber.  *It's the only thing on the Arctic buffet.*"  Dennis Miller, ranting about how TV is bad because, in his opinion, that's what execs think people want.)

Anyway, I mention all of that as background because I think that TNG had to fight a LOT more.  What we don't realize is that the 40s - 60s was actually TVs infancy.  Especially the late 50s and the 60s.  It wasn't until then that TVs were household things.  During this time, there were little controls, until Congress came along.  

So, Trek in the 60s had to worry about how they did what they did but they could still get away with a lot, especially in terms of social commentary.  

When we jump ahead to the 80s, TV is even more regulated, although we are still several years from the TV-14, MA, etc. ratings that are now common, there were more controls.  (Ed Meese, anyone?)  So, the new Trek series has to work within the framework of the 80s.  

The new Trek also has a double bladed sword to contend with, the fans.  The fans were starved for Trek, as the movies showed, but they also wanted a good show in Trek.  So, TNG was a sure thing that would also get more criticism than anything else.

I use that to explain the first season.  The first season is so similar to TOS in how they structured the shows.  This is because I think they wanted to go with a "tried and true" concept that TOS had.  The format is just too close to TOS and in that way, that is how TNG pays homage to TOS.  

There are many other factors, of course.  Since it was syndicated, there is a LOT of pressure from the parent company to make independent shows.  That allows a viewer to start watching at any time and not feel as if they missed something.  (If you have ever heard any commentary on TNG or even B5, there is a LOT of pressure to have stand alone shows.)  

Now, as we have seen TV evolve (and it would be a very interesting thing to argue how things evolve.  Could we have had the TV we have now in the 70s?  Or does what we have now represent the evolution that had to occur to be where we are now?  And of course, this can go to many different areas.)  we are seeing shows do very different things.  

In that regards, this is possibly the one area that Trek was not the first show to do that kind of continuity.  B5 was.  I think, more than anything else, that B5 was the show that showed that a series can be successful, even if a viewer can't jump in to a late season and follow what is going on.  

IIRC, I don't think that DS9 had this continuity until after two or three seasons.  At least, I don't remember it from the seasons that I watched.  It certainly wasn't better or worse than TNGs.  From what I have heard, it got much better in the later seasons.  

So, to finally end this rave on TV, as I like the progression and I like that shows have continuity now, the reason that I don't like Voyager is because it could have had the best continuity and it had the worst.  TNG didn't have the best, I agree, but as I hoped I have explained, I don't think the times were ready for that kind of show.  

Therefore, Enterprise wins with me because it is following that trend of having strong continuity while also honoring TOS and the other shows while still being its own show.  Although, I too want to see more with the "myth" episodes of the Suliban and find out what is going on.  I was hoping they could deal with the temporal cold war more in the second season than they are.  

I know that I am probably making things more complicated than they are.  I don't see conspiracies in everything but I do see an interconnected-ness that does affect how things like TV series develop.

Sorry for being so long winded and preachy.  That wasn't my intent but I really like this discussion.

btw, it was my fault this was resurrected.  I found a link to it from somewhere else and just had to respond.

Thanks!

edg

opiate


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## Ranger REG (Dec 20, 2002)

Sorry, but that is laughable, especially when there were many interviews by Brannon Braga expressing about his feeling toward "continuity," which is something he don't embraced.  

AFAIC, this _ENTERPRISE_ series do not take place in the known _Trek_ universe or reality but one of the alternates. That's the only way I can and will enjoy this show ... if I ever feel like watching it. Although it would be nice if they did that mirror universe version, but that wouldn't sit well with the philosophy and format of _Star Trek_ embraced by the majority of _Trek_ fans.


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## KenM (Dec 21, 2002)

Babylon 5 is the greatest sci-fi show ever. End of story. They accually cared about continuty, something I have NEVER seen in a trek show. 
Example, in TREK:TOS "a piece of the action" (the one with the gansters) Kirk has them set the SHIPS phasers to stun, they fired and a bunch of people on the ground went down stunned. They NEVER use this again, you know how many riots, conflicts, LIVES they could save if they did this instead of fighting?


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## John Crichton (Dec 21, 2002)

KenM said:
			
		

> *Babylon 5 is the greatest sci-fi show ever. End of story. They accually cared about continuty, something I have NEVER seen in a trek show.*



That's a bold statement, man.  But it's all good.  I never really cared much for B5 but more power to those who did.  Everyone's got an opinion.  All time best sci-fi series, tho?  Personally, I think there are many shows that are great but the only one that is the best is whatever I am enjoying most at a given time.  

TOS was important because it allowed other shows to be made after it.  Unfortunately, the creator is dead and some other folks are in charge who really don't know what to do with the material.  They are hit and miss.  Except with their movies:  they all have missed....


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## Ranger REG (Dec 21, 2002)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> *
> Except with their movies:  they all have missed.... *



I beg to differ. _TWOK_ is the most memorable, using the same villain from _TOS_ hell-bent on revenge. _TVH_ was a sign of the time, when Earth Day and saving the environment was a big thing. It harkens back to the successful formula of focusing on social issues. _TUC_ is another great movie that focus on beginning of a fragile yet friendly relations between the Federation and Klingon Empire. _TFC_ is almost a mirror of _TWOK_ (character development) by focusing on Picard's obsession and his personal demon regarding his captivity with the Borg, and the guilt of becoming Locutus and aiding the Borg in the near-destruction of the Federation.

They're not misses.


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## John Crichton (Dec 21, 2002)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> *
> I beg to differ. TWOK is the most memorable, using the same villain from TOS hell-bent on revenge. TVH was a sign of the time, when Earth Day and saving the environment was a big thing. It harkens back to the successful formula of focusing on social issues. TUC is another great movie that focus on beginning of a fragile yet friendly relations between the Federation and Klingon Empire. TFC is almost a mirror of TWOK (character development) by focusing on Picard's obsession and his personal demon regarding his captivity with the Borg, and the guilt of becoming Locutus and aiding the Borg in the near-destruction of the Federation.
> 
> They're not misses.   *



Oh, no no no no....  I must have mispoke!  I loved the TOS movies (even the bad ones!).  I have greatly disliked the the Nex Gen movies.  I have found them uninspired and generally bad.  Treks 2, 4 & 6 were some of my all time favorite films...  

First Contact was okay, but the rest of the NexGen flicks have been bad in comparison...


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## Orius (Dec 22, 2002)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> *Sorry, but that is laughable, especially when there were many interviews by Brannon Braga expressing about his feeling toward "continuity," which is something he don't embraced.  *




Since when does continuity have anything to do with Star Trek?


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## Welverin (Dec 22, 2002)

Orius said:
			
		

> *Since when does continuity have anything to do with Star Trek?   *




DS9 took a stab at it for a while. Um, lets see Voyager was pretty consistent in showing 7 of 9 had nanomachines to fix any problem, that count?


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