# What does D&D mean to movie goers?



## payn (Jul 9, 2021)

Greetings,

I recently read some thoughts shared by Sean Astin about LotR film back in 2001. Sean and cast were worried that the studio was marketing it like "Dungeons and Dragons". Now im not sure if Sean is referring to the 1999 film, which was still recent at the time, or if he thinks there is something less serious about Dungeons and Dragons itself? An interesting distinction because im curious what people today, in 2021, will expect of a Dungeons and Dragons movie? (By people, I dont mean D&D players and fans, but movie going public in general) 

Could this dynamic end up flipped and folks now expect a "classical feel" similar to LotR or even Game of Thrones? The writers have indicated they are aiming for a Guardians of the Galaxy feel. How important will the marketing be to the success of the upcoming D&D film? 

-Cheers


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 9, 2021)

Geek culture was not yet dominant in 2001. Lord of the Rings is part of what flipped that around and then the Marvel Cinematic Universe kicked down the wall and took over pop culture.

Among the general audience that watches the Witcher or MCU films, I don't think it's going to be tough to sell the D&D film at all. Even the previous D&D films aren't an obstacle -- the Roger Corman Captain America and Fantastic Four films were _awful_ (worse than the D&D films) and in no way slowed Marvel down with their films.

I think everyone who follows Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings on Facebook is likely to get a lot of D&D movie ads shoved at them. Heck, if Hasbro was smart, they'd be pushing the D&D Live ads at them now.


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## aco175 (Jul 9, 2021)

I'm wondering what people are expecting from a D&D movie.  I would want more LotR/ GoT instead of Witcher or something more Dark Sun and Eberron.  Not sure if the old middle ages England troupe is what is expected.  

I guess if the story and characters are relatable, it will be a good movie even if not what I want.  My wants and your wants may be far apart.


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## ScYork (Jul 9, 2021)

Yes more LOTR/GOT,  take D&D more serious with a great story line and more believable characters and you could have a potential series of movies on your hands. I want something well done to make me want to return for a second and third movie.


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## Zardnaar (Jul 9, 2021)

I kind of associate it with D&D video games. 

 Basically probably gonna be awful and wait for reviews/word of mouth.


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## payn (Jul 9, 2021)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Geek culture was not yet dominant in 2001. Lord of the Rings is part of what flipped that around and then the Marvel Cinematic Universe kicked down the wall and took over pop culture.
> 
> Among the general audience that watches the Witcher or MCU films, I don't think it's going to be tough to sell the D&D film at all. Even the previous D&D films aren't an obstacle -- the Roger Corman Captain America and Fantastic Four films were _awful_ (worse than the D&D films) and in no way slowed Marvel down with their films.
> 
> I think everyone who follows Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings on Facebook is likely to get a lot of D&D movie ads shoved at them. Heck, if Hasbro was smart, they'd be pushing the D&D Live ads at them now.



What I believe Mr. Astin was getting at is that LotR isnt geek culture. Its a classical epic like The Iliad and thats the type of film they were making. However, the studio was marketing it like a Dungeons and Dragons movie which is geek culture. Whether you agree with that or not isnt material to the what im after. Lets say the next D&D film is supposed to be like an MCU film. How can the studio market it correctly, not to you, but to general movie goers?


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## Umbran (Jul 9, 2021)

payn said:


> What I believe Mr. Astin was getting at is that LotR isnt geek culture. Its a classical epic like The Iliad...




That seems to me to be a false dichotomy, and that has become clear in the two decades since.



payn said:


> Lets say the next D&D film is supposed to be like an MCU film. How can the studio market it correctly, not to you, but to general movie goers?




Well, if it is like an MCU movie, you market it like one.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 9, 2021)

payn said:


> What I believe Mr. Astin was getting at is that LotR isnt geek culture. Its a classical epic like The Iliad and thats the type of film they were making. However, the studio was marketing it like a Dungeons and Dragons movie which is geek culture. Whether you agree with that or not isnt material to the what im after. Lets say the next D&D film is supposed to be like an MCU film. How can the studio market it correctly, not to you, but to general movie goers?



I think everyone who follows Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings on Facebook is likely to get a lot of D&D movie ads shoved at them. Heck, if Hasbro was smart, they'd be pushing the D&D Live ads at them now.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 9, 2021)

payn said:


> Could this dynamic end up flipped and folks now expect a "classical feel" similar to LotR or even Game of Thrones?



Nope, one thing most people people expect from D&D is "it's much less serious than Lord of the Rings".


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## Yora (Jul 9, 2021)

When I hear Dungeons & Dragons movie, I am expecting something like a shonen anime style B-movie with a big budget. No idea if that's still justified, but that's what I assume it would be.

Cardbord cutout chracters by actors making poor performances because if the lack of direction and a brainless script, fighting generic dark lords and dragons in cheap CGI environments, while appearing to be under the delusion that it's deep and dramatic cinema.
Like a DC superhero movie or Fast & Furious.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 9, 2021)

Yora said:


> Like a DC superhero movie



They tend to suffer from taking themselves far too seriously - something I wouldn't expect from a D&D movie.

F&F is a much better comparison.


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## Blue Orange (Jul 9, 2021)

"So it says the treasure is in the eye of the beholder. So this chest looks different to everyone, I guess? I see a brown chest with silver bands, what do you see?"

"Same thing. Maybe it means everyone can use it differently and has a different opinion about it. Or maybe it--oh, _crap_..."


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## Ryujin (Jul 9, 2021)

Yora said:


> When I hear Dungeons & Dragons movie, I am expecting something like a shonen anime style B-movie with a big budget. No idea if that's still justified, but that's what I assume it would be.
> 
> Cardbord cutout chracters by actors making poor performances because if the lack of direction and a brainless script, fighting generic dark lords and dragons in cheap CGI environments, while appearing to be under the delusion that it's deep and dramatic cinema.
> Like a DC superhero movie or Fast & Furious.



And utterly devoid of interesting dialogue, because the translations simply won't work for the massive Chinese audience that they'll want to pull in.


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## Neonchameleon (Jul 9, 2021)

The problem is twofold:

There are no real iconic Dungeons & Dragons characters truly recognised by everyone as other than names (generally of spells) so there's little other than the banner name
Almost anyone drawn in by the name D&D will be drawn in by just about any major fantasy property.


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## aco175 (Jul 9, 2021)

If they are not going for the whole thing and make a serious LotR style movie, I would like a more lighthearted *Princess Bride* type with some funny one-liners.  I think movie-goers want to be entertained (*Gladiator*) but want to root for the underdog (*Rocky*) while bringing your kids and still have a few adult moments (*Aladdin, Little Mermaid)*.


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## Wolfram stout (Jul 9, 2021)

I don't know what "most people" are going to assume about a D&D Movie.  I need to ask my Bro-In-Law as he is probably a pretty good test case (loves movies but is not in the gaming space at all--no TTRPG, no video games, etc.).  I suspect his assumption would be a mash up of GOT, Witcher and Lord of the Rings.

So Marketing (including the official title of the movie) will be paramount.  I don't worry at all the movie will be like the first D&D movie, I do worry that the Marketing will mess it up.  If the marketing is as bad as for John Carter (how do you not include the word Mars in the title in some way?) it could be doomed regardless of how good it is.  But I am overstating that....right?

As long as the marketing accurately conveys the tone of the movie, I think all will be good.  And surely, in today's age they can't mess that up too much.....can they?


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## hopeless (Jul 9, 2021)

Depends where they're planning to go with this and whether their script is any good.
Even Star Wars actually only worked because of the editing and the support helped maintain that quality into the following movies that make up the OT.


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## payn (Jul 9, 2021)

Umbran said:


> That seems to me to be a false dichotomy, and that has become clear in the two decades since.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if it is like an MCU movie, you market it like one.



We know that now that the Marvel brand has been built. How do you do it from scratch and for D&D?


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## hopeless (Jul 9, 2021)

Ideally have them re-release the classic D&D cartoon series and maybe Thundarr the Barbarian series if they can to promote interest.
Maybe a few articles on d&d beyond to highlight it so they can have articles to point towards that as it gets gradually filtered out until they're ready to actually release the teaser trailer.
And absolutely no **** agenda for god's sake!


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## payn (Jul 9, 2021)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I think everyone who follows Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings on Facebook is likely to get a lot of D&D movie ads shoved at them. Heck, if Hasbro was smart, they'd be pushing the D&D Live ads at them now.



I dont think its instantly smart at all. Did they market World of Warcraft to LotR and GoT folks? I think folks are thinking geek is in so its no fail and will find an audience. Though, folks are forgetting there have been a number of fantasy flicks in the last 20 years that were quickly forgotten. Either they were bad movies or not marketed well. D&D is no sure bet even with Pine and Grant.


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## Yora (Jul 9, 2021)

How many non-children fantasy movies are there really that are considered "great movies"?

All I can think of is Conan the Barbarian and Lord of the Rings.

While science fiction has had a number of very successful well regarded movies, fantasy movies are still generally a pretty trashy thing.


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## Umbran (Jul 9, 2021)

payn said:


> We know that now that the Marvel brand has been built. How do you do it from scratch and for D&D?




In this case, quite possibly you start not based on "D&D", but on the cast name recognition.  

Chris Pine - Wonder Woman and Star Trek
Michelle Rodriquez - Fast & Furious movies
Sophia Lillis - It
Regé-Jean Page - Bridgerton
Hugh Grant - too many things to list

The film is loaded with names the target audiences are going to recognize.  Get people in the seats to see the actors, and if the film uses their talents, it'll be viewed positively.


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## Ryujin (Jul 9, 2021)

I think that it's pretty hard for folks on this forum to put ourselves in the shoes of the "general public." We don't have the same experience that they do, when it comes to tabletop role playing. I think that the 'average' person on the street will have an impression based on what they saw in "Big Bang Theory" and "Community" which is decidedly... not good.


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## Cadence (Jul 9, 2021)

Hopefully not accurate memories of the cartoon!


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## hopeless (Jul 9, 2021)

Cadence said:


> Hopefully not accurate memories of the cartoon!



Some were actually good or do you remember the D&D movies so far?
I'm not arguing I just think they would make a better advertisement.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 9, 2021)

Yora said:


> How many non-children fantasy movies are there really that are considered "great movies"?



1) It's not aiming for "great", it's aiming for "popular". Like the game.

2) It's not aiming for "adult" either. Hasbro are keen to promote a family friendly image for D&D.


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## payn (Jul 9, 2021)

Umbran said:


> In this case, quite possibly you start not based on "D&D", but on the cast name recognition.
> 
> Chris Pine - Wonder Woman and Star Trek
> Michelle Rodriquez - Fast & Furious movies
> ...



This is definitely the way. In fact, its how they sold Horrible Bosses and Game Night.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 9, 2021)

Umbran said:


> In this case, quite possibly you start not based on "D&D", but on the cast name recognition.
> 
> Chris Pine - Wonder Woman and Star Trek
> Michelle Rodriquez - Fast & Furious movies
> ...



You forget poor old Smith, and his electric rat.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 9, 2021)

payn said:


> This is definitely the way. In fact, its how they sold Horrible Bosses and Game Night.



It's how they always used to sell movies, before franchises became the big thing.


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## ART! (Jul 9, 2021)

Most people will expect it to have a similar tone to the LOTR movies, maybe GoT, and might expect it to be a little lighter in tone than either of those. 

If they are indeed going for a GotG feel for this movie, one can only hope the first trailer sets expectations as well as the first GotG trailer did.


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## Cadence (Jul 9, 2021)

hopeless said:


> Some were actually good or do you remember the D&D movies so far?
> I'm not arguing I just think they would make a better advertisement.




Just watched the cartoon series last year with my 11yo (I had seen much of it back when it first broadcast).  I thought the animation was mediocre, the plots were quite variable, and they sure walked through a bunch of desert and swamps a lot.  (Haven't seen them in ages, but my memories of the old Hobbit and LotR cartoon were significantly better). My son thought they were ok, but certainly not Ninjago, Power Rangers, Pokemon, Yugio, She-Ra, or random You-tuber level of rewatchable. I never saw any of the previous D&D movies.

That being said, I'm said Uni wasn't on one of the cards in the D&D secret lair that's coming out for MtG.


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## hopeless (Jul 9, 2021)

Cadence said:


> Just watched the cartoon series last year with my 11yo (I had seen much of it back when it first broadcast).  I thought the animation was mediocre, the plots were quite variable, and they sure walked through a bunch of desert and swamps a lot.  (Haven't seen them in ages, but my memories of the old Hobbit and LotR cartoon were significantly better). My son thought they were ok, but certainly not Ninjago, Power Rangers, Pokemon, Yugio, She-Ra, or random You-tuber level of rewatchable. I never saw any of the previous D&D movies.
> 
> That being said, I'm said Uni wasn't on one of the cards in the D&D secret lair that's coming out for MtG.



How about Dragon Prince or the Avatar the Last Airbender series?


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## Cadence (Jul 9, 2021)

hopeless said:


> How about Dragon Prince or the Avatar the Last Airbender series?



He loved Airbender.  Also watches How to Train your Dragon.  Not sure on Dragon Prince.


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## hopeless (Jul 9, 2021)

Cadence said:


> He loved Airbender.  Also watches How to Train your Dragon.  Not sure on Dragon Prince.



I'd ask about Stormhawks and the various Conan the Barbarian, He man and other series like the Legend of Zelda or that Captain Z animated series, but I think that's just as dated as the 80's animated series...


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## Cadence (Jul 9, 2021)

hopeless said:


> I'd ask about Stormhawks and the various Conan the Barbarian, He man and other series like the Legend of Zelda or that Captain Z animated series, but I think that's just as dated as the 80's animated series...



I refuse to believe Thunder Cats is dated, and Inspector Gadget will always be classic.  

He-man felt dated when it came out


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## hopeless (Jul 9, 2021)

Both versions of the Thundercats?


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## Cadence (Jul 9, 2021)

hopeless said:


> Both versions of the Thundercats?




I only ever saw the original.

I have seen the newest Scooby Doo and Inspector Gadget and thought they were both reasonable (11 yo likes them too).


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## Morrus (Jul 9, 2021)

Lord of the Rings is a story. D&D is a ruleset for building stories. They're not really comparable. 

Lord of the Rings might be comparable (in terms of them both being a story) with various D&D adventures or novels. But those don't have the brand name recognition that D&D has.


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## Undrave (Jul 9, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> I think that it's pretty hard for folks on this forum to put ourselves in the shoes of the "general public." We don't have the same experience that they do, when it comes to tabletop role playing. I think that the 'average' person on the street will have an impression based on what they saw in "Big Bang Theory" and "Community" which is decidedly... not good.



There's also Stranger Things. 


Cadence said:


> I refuse to believe Thunder Cats is dated, and Inspector Gadget will always be classic.



Thundercats only looks good in the opening and in stills. The rest of the show is very stiff and the acting falls short of He-Man and other Filmation production. Scripts were better than He-Man though. 

Inspector Gadget, in its first season, had some impressive animation for the time. Well above its simple stories. A lot of it being done by TMS in Japan with Nelvanna picking up the slack for the rest. The entire show is available legally on Youtube BTW. And the comedy in that first season still works super well. Season 2 with Capeman is... a downgrade (and also a downgrade in animation).

Of that era, I feel like Bravestarr holds up surprisingly well. Also has an official Youtube channel.


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## aco175 (Jul 9, 2021)

Snarf, Snarf, Thundercats- Snarf...  

Hope that doesn't make the cut.  Similar to the penguin things in the last Star Wars movies.


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## Ryujin (Jul 9, 2021)

Morrus said:


> Lord of the Rings is a story. D&D is a ruleset for building stories. They're not really comparable.
> 
> Lord of the Rings might be comparable (in terms of them both being a story) with various D&D adventures or novels. But those don't have the brand name recognition that D&D has.



From that standpoint their best bet might be to rip off one of the existing indie movies/Youtube series like "The Gamers" and intro the movie by showing the players, then move into the fantasy world from there. At least then the viewers would have some idea of what it's all about.


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## Ryujin (Jul 9, 2021)

Undrave said:


> There's also Stranger Things.



The "Stranger Things" connection might work for some. For others it would be "a silly kids' game."


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## Morrus (Jul 9, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> From that standpoint their best bet might be to rip off one of the existing indie movies/Youtube series like "The Gamers" and intro the movie by showing the players, then move into the fantasy world from there. At least then the viewers would have some idea of what it's all about.



You don't have to know about something before you watch it. Plenty of franchises get launched from nothing, or from little known characters. You just have to market it well.


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## Ryujin (Jul 9, 2021)

Morrus said:


> You don't have to know about something before you watch it. Plenty of franchises get launched from nothing, or from little known characters. You just have to market it well.



True enough but I was coming at it from the "building stories rather than telling stories" aspect that you mentioned.


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## Ralif Redhammer (Jul 9, 2021)

And that's no small number of people that would've heard the name D&D as part of the show, seen a d20 get rolled, heard them talk about the Mind Flayer. Within the first four days of season 3's release, over 40 million Netflix accounts streamed at least some of it. D&D brand recognition is probably higher than ever.

Not that that translates directly into people that will go see the D&D movie. While current pop culture is pretty well-meshed with geek culture at this point, so much of the hits have the muscle of the MCU, Pixar, Star Wars (So, Disney), DC, and so on behind them. What was the last successful Hollywood (western) fantasy movie that didn't belong to one of those?

My wife loves LOTR, Stranger Things, GoT, MCU, Pixar, Studio Ghibli, but it's even odds on her watching the D&D movie with me or not. She might try it based on Regé-Jean Page, Sophia Lillis, and Hugh Grant being in it, but she might just tell me "why don't you watch it with your brother?"



Undrave said:


> There's also Stranger Things.


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## Umbran (Jul 9, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> True enough but I was coming at it from the "building stories rather than telling stories" aspect that you mentioned.




I think his point is that you can market LotR as "Here's the story of LotR."  You can't market D&D that way.  That _does not_ mean you need to start with a story that's already been established - just that the marketing has to be different.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 9, 2021)

payn said:


> I dont think its instantly smart at all. Did they market World of Warcraft to LotR and GoT folks?



I believe they did, yes.

Targeted Facebook ads are relatively inexpensive and you can refine them with multiple qualifications as needed. (Every nation's political leadership shows this works.) Maybe you don't just advertise to someone who likes LotR, GoT or the Witcher, but you market to the people who like all three, showing that they're not just hot for Jon Snow.


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## Snarf Zagyg (Jul 9, 2021)

Yora said:


> How many non-children fantasy movies are there really that are considered "great movies"?
> 
> All I can think of is Conan the Barbarian and Lord of the Rings.
> 
> While science fiction has had a number of very successful well regarded movies, fantasy movies are still generally a pretty trashy thing.




It really depends on your definition of fantasy. For example, we tend to use an expansive definition of "science fiction" but, mentally, our image of fantasy movies tends to get stuck on "Sword & Sorcery" (Conan) or "High Fantasy" (LoTR), and there aren't a lot of those.

But fantasy is a fairly expansive genre.

Depending on the exact boundaries, you would need to include Pan's Labyrinth, Wizard of Oz, the Harry Potter Series, the Princess Bride, Mary Poppins, and ... heck, you could probbly put in the Oscar-winning Shape of Water as well! 

What about Tim Burton? Edward Scissorhands, Sleepy Hollow, Corpse Bride, Beetlejuice etc. 
What about Gilliam? Time Bandits, Baron Munchausen etc.

Then there's the animated - Coraline, some of the output of Miyazaki (Spirited Away etc.), Shrek, Fantasia, Onward, etc. 

And then ... what about some of the MCU movies and other superhero movies? Thor and Dr. Strange arguably. The Hellboy movies?


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## Undrave (Jul 9, 2021)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> My wife loves LOTR, Stranger Things, GoT, MCU, Pixar, Studio Ghibli, but it's even odds on her watching the D&D movie with me or not. She might try it based on Regé-Jean Page, Sophia Lillis, and Hugh Grant being in it, but she might just tell me "why don't you watch it with your brother?"



Maybe if they come out with a rocking trailer.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 9, 2021)

Undrave said:


> Maybe if they come out with a rocking trailer.



They will come out with a rocking trailer.

Trailers nowadays are amazing compared to even just a few years ago. The specialists who assemble the good ones are insanely good at their jobs, even if the movie itself is a turkey. And they turn out a ton of variants so they can target every one of them. I think we can count on a version highlighting Regé-Jean Page that will be put in front of Bridgerton fans who also like fantasy.


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## Ralif Redhammer (Jul 9, 2021)

I laugh, because my wife hates trailers! She will give them just 30 - 60 seconds, because anything more and she feels they're spoiling the movie. I kinda agree with her on that. 



Undrave said:


> Maybe if they come out with a rocking trailer.


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## Zardnaar (Jul 9, 2021)

Umbran said:


> In this case, quite possibly you start not based on "D&D", but on the cast name recognition.
> 
> Chris Pine - Wonder Woman and Star Trek
> Michelle Rodriquez - Fast & Furious movies
> ...




 Chris Pine often makes lists of over rated/paid movie stars. 

 I think if you leave out a couple of his movies most of them make little money. 

 Essentially people went to see Trek because it's trek not because it's Chris Pine in it.

 He's not really an anchor type actor unlike say The Rock who can do any crap movie and it will make hundreds of millions.


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## Umbran (Jul 9, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Chris Pine often makes lists of over rated/paid movie stars.




So does every highly-paid actor, I expect.



Zardnaar said:


> I think if you leave out a couple of his movies most of them make little money.




Yes, well, if you only allow data that supports your conclusion, then you'll feel your conclusion is supported.  But cherry picking doesn't make a convincing argument.



Zardnaar said:


> Essentially people went to see Trek because it's trek not because it's Chris Pine in it.




Sure.  But then, you also missed the point.



Zardnaar said:


> He's not really an anchor type actor unlike say The Rock who can do any crap movie and it will make hundreds of millions.




Nope. But then, I didn't say he was, so this is arguing against a strawman.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 9, 2021)

It's going to be weird having many people on this board disappointed if the D&D movie turns out to be decent and does well commercially.


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## Cadence (Jul 9, 2021)

It feels like as popular as it is, D&D has a built in huge group of people who will at least look at the previews... and talk it up and see it if it actually looks like a decent movie.  And then if it is actually decent and rotten tomatoes agrees with the word of mouth, shouldn't that give it some legs?


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## Zardnaar (Jul 9, 2021)

Umbran said:


> So does every highly-paid actor, I expect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You were the one name dropping these actors. 

 None of them have been in big movies under there own star power. 

 Hugh Grant maybe in the 90's. That was over 20 years ago.

 The D&D name I highly doubt can carry a movie by itself, it can't carry a video game. 

 So what are we left with? Probably a generic fantasy film that may or may not be good?


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## Zardnaar (Jul 9, 2021)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> It's going to be weird having many people on this board disappointed if the D&D movie turns out to be decent and does well commercially.




 More mildly surprised.


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## Cadence (Jul 9, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> More mildly surprised.




Hollywood already gave me decent movies for the Avengers, LotR, and Watchmen... anything is possible.


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## hopeless (Jul 10, 2021)

And since then?
In recent times they have grown somewhat unable to recognise decent writing and seemed more intent on something that really isn't profitable.
But yes mildly surprised, I'd be happy if they didn't have that particular problem.


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## Blue Orange (Jul 10, 2021)

They could get Vin Diesel, and drop hints it's in the Fast and Furious universe.

"It's all about _family_!"

"Yeah, but these guys are more like the Do'Urdens."

After they win they sit down for a game. If it does well the next Fast and Furious movie will have them playing D&D while driving.


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## hopeless (Jul 10, 2021)

I could see Vin Diesel inviting them around for an impromptu game!

I'm not sure if that would count as a movie, but I suspect it could be streamed!


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## ART! (Jul 10, 2021)

Cadence said:


> It feels like as popular as it is, D&D has a built in huge group of people who will at least look at the previews... and talk it up and see it if it actually looks like a decent movie.  And then if it is actually decent and rotten tomatoes agrees with the word of mouth, shouldn't that give it some legs?



One of the marketing things that Marvel Studios relies on and does really well is create buzz that gets the in-the-know fans excited. Dropping some quintessential D&D-isms in a teaser trailer would be a way that this movie could do that. If there's a Beholder in the movie, tease that, for example. Show a wizard casting what could only be Magic Missile. Etcetera.


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## Ryujin (Jul 10, 2021)

ART! said:


> One of the marketing things that Marvel Studios relies on and does really well is create buzz that gets the in-the-know fans excited. Dropping some quintessential D&D-isms in a teaser trailer would be a way that this movie could do that. If there's a Beholder in the movie, tease that, for example. Show a wizard casting what could only be Magic Missile. Etcetera.



If they try to play into that then I would expect there to be a little "leveling up" at some point. It would be interesting to see how they handle it.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 11, 2021)

hopeless said:


> And since then?



Avengers Endgame came out in 2019. I think we can't really count what few movies came out in 2020, my man.


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## Undrave (Jul 11, 2021)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Avengers Endgame came out in 2019. I think we can't really count what few movies came out in 2020, my man.



Marvel is kind of the big exception... Everybody that tried to imitate them has kinda floundered around and gotten, at best, mild success. Marvel has their formula down pat after over a decade of working it out. 

no one has come close to that well oiled machine...eacept maybe the Fast franchise and the Mission Impossible franchise?


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Undrave said:


> no one has come close to that well oiled machine...eacept maybe the Fast franchise and the Mission Impossible franchise?



Definitely both of those. They're easy to ignore if you don't seek them out, but they are almost perfect movies in that they deliver exactly what their audiences are looking for.


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## Undrave (Jul 11, 2021)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Definitely both of those. They're easy to ignore if you don't seek them out, but they are almost perfect movies in that they deliver exactly what their audiences are looking for.



Marvel, Fast and M.I. have all been at this for quite a while now... But since Marvel made it big in the late 00's, heck, since Harry Potter and LOTR made it big, there's been a ton of failed franchises. Even then, LOTR and HP both tried to create another successfuly set of movies and pretty much failed their fans... and we shall not mention the other 'Star' franchise other than to say they also stumbled when trying to leverage their brand into a sucessful run of movies. 

I have a hard time trusting Hollywood, who gave us five frickin' Michael Bay Transformers movie, when it comes to adapting IPs. 

I'm hoping for something that can AT LEAST be as competant as Sonic the Hedgehog.


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## Aging Bard (Jul 11, 2021)

There already exists a great D&D movie, It's not a great _movie_ (far from it), but it hits every required beat for a D&D movie.

It brings a party together. It has recognizable classes: 2 barbarians, a fighter, a thief, a magic-user (perhaps even a wu jen), and a patron assigning a magical NPC to guide the party. There is a hexcrawl, city crawl, two dungeon crawls, and a fantastic finale where everything is upended. Magic items must be found and retrieved. The fate of the world is in the balance! Seriously, a picture perfect D&D one shot.

And what is this movie? _Conan the Destroyer_, the clearly inferior sequel to _Conan the  Barbarian_, but absolutely the better D&D movie.


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## Ryujin (Jul 11, 2021)

Aging Bard said:


> There already exists a great D&D movie, It's not a great _movie_ (far from it), but it hits every required beat for a D&D movie.
> 
> It brings a party together. It has recognizable classes: 2 barbarians, a fighter, a thief, a magic-user (perhaps even a wu jen), and a patron assigning a magical NPC to guide the party. There is a hexcrawl, city crawl, two dungeon crawls, and a fantastic finale where everything is upended. Magic items must be found and retrieved. The fate of the world is in the balance! Seriously, a picture perfect D&D one shot.
> 
> And what is this movie? _Conan the Destroyer_, the clearly inferior sequel to _Conan the  Barbarian_, but absolutely the better D&D movie.



The "Mythica" series does that and even adds in the tavern. It's indie budget though.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Aging Bard said:


> There already exists a great D&D movie, It's not a great _movie_ (far from it), but it hits every required beat for a D&D movie.
> 
> It brings a party together. It has recognizable classes: 2 barbarians, a fighter, a thief, a magic-user (perhaps even a wu jen), and a patron assigning a magical NPC to guide the party. There is a hexcrawl, city crawl, two dungeon crawls, and a fantastic finale where everything is upended. Magic items must be found and retrieved. The fate of the world is in the balance! Seriously, a picture perfect D&D one shot.
> 
> And what is this movie? _Conan the Destroyer_, the clearly inferior sequel to _Conan the  Barbarian_, but absolutely the better D&D movie.



I see you and raise you Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which has a magical sword and a great barroom brawl.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 11, 2021)

The point of the reference to Conan the Destroyer is not to suggest it is the only D&Dish movie. The point is, D&Disms like those in CtD are incompatible with very serious epic fantasy. You want to get serious, you need to cut out the familiar D&D tropes that make people smile with recognition.


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## ccs (Jul 11, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Chris Pine often makes lists of over rated/paid movie stars.
> 
> * I think if you leave out a couple of his movies most of them make little money.*
> 
> ...



They must make enough $ for the studios to consider it worth paying his asking price next time....


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## hopeless (Jul 11, 2021)

Would Hawk the Slayer count too?

I have the Mythica series along with Conan the Destroyer and thoroughly agree about the Conan sequel being a fine d&d movie!


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## Zardnaar (Jul 11, 2021)

ccs said:


> They must make enough $ for the studios to consider it worth paying his asking price next time....




 No idea. Someone linked his movies here once upon a time. Ignoring Trek (because he probably isn't the main reason people go to see those films) most didn't pull in that much. 

But I don't think he is a super expensive actor like the old 20 million 90's club.

 He has some name recognition but doesn't seem to have the star power to anchor a movie/franchise.

 At least to any great extent in terms of box office. He's not a bad actor by any means.


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## hopeless (Jul 11, 2021)

I still haven't watched WW84, but agree he's been good in the movies I have watched that he's been involved in.


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## Zardnaar (Jul 11, 2021)

hopeless said:


> I still haven't watched WW84, but agree he's been good in the movies I have watched that he's been involved in.




 Yeah they've got a decent cast skull wise. 

 So if the movie is bad look at the writers and directors.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 11, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> The point of the reference to Conan the Destroyer is not to suggest it is the only D&Dish movie. The point is, D&Disms like those in CtD are incompatible with very serious epic fantasy. You want to get serious, you need to cut out the familiar D&D tropes that make people smile with recognition.



Again, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is an extremely D&D movie, minus catacombs.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 11, 2021)

hopeless said:


> I still haven't watched WW84, but agree he's been good in the movies I have watched that he's been involved in.



All the actors are good in that. It's the script that lets that one down.


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## Aging Bard (Jul 12, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> The point of the reference to Conan the Destroyer is not to suggest it is the only D&Dish movie. The point is, D&Disms like those in CtD are incompatible with very serious epic fantasy. You want to get serious, you need to cut out the familiar D&D tropes that make people smile with recognition.



This is a very wise comment. I do think a "serious" D&D movie is possible, but I agree that such a movie must omit many gonzo D&D tropes.


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## Aging Bard (Jul 12, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> The "Mythica" series does that and even adds in the tavern. It's indie budget though.



Adding the tavern is a serious cliched plus. Hackneyed as hell.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 12, 2021)

Aging Bard said:


> Adding the tavern is a serious cliched plus. Hackneyed as hell.



To D&D players. To first timers, it's new and fresh.

I've had great success using polished versions of tried and true tropes with D&D newbies and they never fail to love them, partly because, at this point, you have so many choices for each of them that you can pick true gems for each of them.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 12, 2021)

Aging Bard said:


> This is a very wise comment. I do think a "serious" D&D movie is possible, but I agree that such a movie must omit many gonzo D&D tropes.



If you omit the D&D tropes what is there left to make it a D&D movie?

And it's not a matter of them being gonzo, it's a matter of the being familiar. And some have entered popular culture without people knowing the origin. Look at the things referenced in the D&D MtG cards.

If the audience response is "I understand that reference", then they are going to be amused. You have to make it clear that is deliberate, so they are laughing with you, not at you.

If you want to make a very serious fantasy film you need to use very serious literary source material. And that aint D&D.


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## Paul Farquhar (Jul 12, 2021)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> To D&D players. To first timers, it's new and fresh.



Meeting in a tavern is part of British culture. Before COVID we used to meet in a tavern to play D&D. It entered D&D via the Prancing Pony, which came from the Inklings, who used to meet in a tavern.


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## Undrave (Jul 12, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> If you want to make a very serious fantasy film you need to use very serious literary source material. And that aint D&D.




I don't get the fans who insist on a serious D&D movie... when is D&D ever serious? When is it not a Gonzo Goofy Farcical mess of dwarf tossing, horny bards, self-righteous paladins, edgy grim dark rogues and Boblin the goblin?! You try to make a LOTR story but you always end up back at Monty Python in one way or another. 

To strip those D&D-isms is to strip D&D of its nature and make it bland. 

I think the REAL difference, however, is if the characters treat it seriously. If it has to be funny, I want to be like the Naked Gun series, or Top Secret or Airplane! A story played completely straight, despite all the ridiculous elements. I don't want 'smirk at the camera' ironic comedies, or comedies that feel the need to have a character points out all the stupid jokes and decrying "That makes no sense!" every thirty seconds. 

I want a script filled with silly gonzo D&Dism, but everyone is acting like they're in the best seasons of Game of Thrones.


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## J.Quondam (Jul 12, 2021)

Undrave said:


> I don't get the fans who insist on a serious D&D movie... when is D&D ever serious? When is it not a Gonzo Goofy Farcical mess of dwarf tossing, horny bards, self-righteous paladins, edgy grim dark rogues and Boblin the goblin?! You try to make a LOTR story but you always end up back at Monty Python in one way or another.



I'm seeing a vision... of something... _truly awful_....

National Lampoon's Forgotten Realms Vacation
.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 12, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Meeting in a tavern is part of British culture. Before COVID we used to meet in a tavern to play D&D. It entered D&D via the Prancing Pony, which came from the Inklings, who used to meet in a tavern.



The Brits are a very small part of the potential audience for this film. And if any of the Inklings make it to a showing, it'll be big news.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 12, 2021)

Undrave said:


> horny bards



Redundant.


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## Undrave (Jul 12, 2021)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> The Brits are a very small part of the potential audience for this film. And if any of the* Inklings* make it to a showing, it'll be big news.



Woomy?


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