# World in Flames



## Edgewood (Jun 15, 2010)

I'm just starting to get into this mother of all WWII boardgames. A friend of mine invited me over to try the game which he had set up and I could not believe the extent that this game goes to simulate world war II. Any players of this game on these boards? 

I'm new to the game and would like to discuss tactics and ideas as I'm at a disadvantage not knowing the rules a well as my friend does and I'm still in the process of absorbing the extensive ruleset as it is.


----------



## MerricB (Jun 16, 2010)

I doubt there are that many WIF players here; certainly it's a game I've never played (though I've heard of it).

However, if you wander over to World in Flames | Board Game | Board Game Geekdō you'll find a few WIF players happy to give you advice. 

Another place to visit would be consimworld: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?13@797.ttkhbiSBbKe.38@.ee6b55a/3064 (although they have a poxy interface).

Cheers!


----------



## Edgewood (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks a lot Merric. I tried to give you XP but it won't let me for now. I checked out GBG.com before and have chatted with a few people about it. This game is a beast with over 4200 counters in the new edition coming out in 2011. But it's a ton of fum though.


----------



## Celisasu (Jun 16, 2010)

4200 counters?  Damn, it sounds like something delicious to play but seeing how we can't even find time to play Twilight Imperium yet(it sits in my shelf taunting us), I'm not sure we'd ever find time for this.  Yeah, it's probably meant to be left sitting in the game room for weeks on end or the like but with little ones running around, we just can't do that.


----------



## Jan van Leyden (Jun 16, 2010)

Celisasu said:


> 4200 counters?  Damn, it sounds like something delicious to play but seeing how we can't even find time to play Twilight Imperium yet(it sits in my shelf taunting us), I'm not sure we'd ever find time for this.  Yeah, it's probably meant to be left sitting in the game room for weeks on end or the like but with little ones running around, we just can't do that.




I knew a group of cosim-gamers a long, long time ago who had a special game room where they deployed a game of World in Flames or Empires in Arms and met once per month for years on end to play.

Image my bouts of hilarious laughter when I read the strip "Guns of August" in Bundle of Trouble.


----------



## Edgewood (Jun 16, 2010)

Celisasu said:


> 4200 counters?  Damn, it sounds like something delicious to play but seeing how we can't even find time to play Twilight Imperium yet(it sits in my shelf taunting us), I'm not sure we'd ever find time for this.  Yeah, it's probably meant to be left sitting in the game room for weeks on end or the like but with little ones running around, we just can't do that.




Like I said the game is a monster. Every possible unit is represented as well as each and every ship (not including merchant and convoy ships) that took place in both the European and Pacific theaters of war. Although the war starts in Sept 1939 with Germany invading Poland, things from there can and do take a stark departure from history.

You have to track everything from escorting convoys from North America to ensuring that your units are in supply, that you are taking the right course with your production, to weather, and everything else in between.

The drawback to the game is the length of time to play. We started the war last night and played from Sept 1936 to March 1940. We started at 7:00 PM and ended at 1:00 AM. (Six sold hours of gaming.) You can spend days and days playing this game out. And every country is represented.

The game just boggles the mind in it's scope....


----------



## Croesus (Jun 17, 2010)

WIF is, hands down, the best grand strategic game of WWII made. Third Reich is perhaps better known, but WIF is better balanced and more challenging. Axis and Allies is a fun beer and pretzels game, but has nowhere near the depth of WIF.

One of the best features is that the game resists "perfect" plans. Units have variable strengths and are drawn randomly - maybe you'll get the best 3 armor units in your initial draw, maybe you won't. Kind of difficult to plan the perfect opening move when you aren't certain what units you'll have. The same issue with building units - you don't know the exact stats until it is ready to place on the board.

In addition, turns are played in impulses, but the number of impulses in a given turn is uncertain. Generally clear weather turns have more impulses than poor weather turns, but I still remember one game where the first two turns of Barbarossa ended with the minimum number of impulses. Huge benefit to the Soviets (who really needed the help, having gotten bogged down in Turkey - don't ask...)

One thing to keep in mind is that there are different editions of the game. I'm most familiar with 4th and 5th edition, but Final Edition is the current one. There are also numerous add-ons, such as Planes in Flames, Ships in Flames, Convoys in Flames, etc. Each adds expanded gameplay, but at the expense of addtional counters and rules.

That's the one drawback of this game. It's truly a monster game and while a 60 page core rulebook may not seem like much compared to an RPG, compared to the typical wargame, it's a lot to keep up with. If you can play Squad Leader, you can play WIF. But if you want something quick and easy, Axis and Allies this ain't.

If you haven't heard, Matrix Games is producing a PC version of Final Edition. It's still got a ways to go, but it looks good so far. Here's the link to the forums:

World in Flames

BTW, I'm envious. I haven't been able to find a WIF group for some time now and need my fix.


----------



## MerricB (Jun 18, 2010)

Yeah, "monster games" were something that I wanted to play in my youth; now I'm more happy to play games that I can finish in a sitting.

Games like Twilight Struggle, Successors, Advanced Squad Leader, Washington's War...

I'm hoping to get Here I Stand to the table soon. 

Cheers!


----------



## Celisasu (Jun 18, 2010)

Edgewood said:


> Like I said the game is a monster. Every possible unit is represented as well as each and every ship (not including merchant and convoy ships) that took place in both the European and Pacific theaters of war. Although the war starts in Sept 1939 with Germany invading Poland, things from there can and do take a stark departure from history.
> 
> You have to track everything from escorting convoys from North America to ensuring that your units are in supply, that you are taking the right course with your production, to weather, and everything else in between.
> 
> ...





Yeah, it sounds great and our group does want to do a WWII counter game but we need something that doesn't require quite that much time.  Six hours is our normal max although we are hoping to pick a day later on where we can do something longer(current plans being that aforementioned Twilight Imperium that's been taunting us).


----------



## Croesus (Jun 18, 2010)

It hasn't been released yet, but you might consider WIF Blitz - only one map sheet, 600 counters. Estimates are 3 hours playing time for Barbarossa scenario, 15 hours for the entire war. Once 1,000 pre-orders (I'm one) have been received, the game will be printed and shipped.

ADG's Official Site - latest update Jan 2010


----------



## Edgewood (Jun 19, 2010)

Croesus said:


> It hasn't been released yet, but you might consider WIF Blitz - only one map sheet, 600 counters. Estimates are 3 hours playing time for Barbarossa scenario, 15 hours for the entire war. Once 1,000 pre-orders (I'm one) have been received, the game will be printed and shipped.
> 
> ADG's Official Site - latest update Jan 2010




Yeah I saw that. It looks really good. I'm also looking forward to the PC version to be released by Matrix.


----------



## Celisasu (Jun 21, 2010)

Croesus said:


> It hasn't been released yet, but you might consider WIF Blitz - only one map sheet, 600 counters. Estimates are 3 hours playing time for Barbarossa scenario, 15 hours for the entire war. Once 1,000 pre-orders (I'm one) have been received, the game will be printed and shipped.
> 
> ADG's Official Site - latest update Jan 2010




Hmm...interesting.   Do they have a clicker saying "X preorders to go"?  It'd be nice to know where things stand.  I hate the idea of preordering something that'll be vaporware as nobody is preordering.


----------



## MerricB (Jun 21, 2010)

Celisasu said:


> Hmm...interesting.   Do they have a clicker saying "X preorders to go"?  It'd be nice to know where things stand.  I hate the idea of preordering something that'll be vaporware as nobody is preordering.




Hmm...

Here's the thread announcing it on BGG:
New World in Flames products now available for pre-order | World in Flames | Board Game Geekdō

It seems you'll only be charged when they are printing it.

Cheers!


----------



## Edgewood (Jun 21, 2010)

Celisasu said:


> Hmm...interesting.   Do they have a clicker saying "X preorders to go"?  It'd be nice to know where things stand.  I hate the idea of preordering something that'll be vaporware as nobody is preordering.




If you're referring to the PC game, well there's is no such thing yet. In fact there is no release date concerning the game. But there is an active forums site where the developers reveal all of the steps they are taking to get the game right. It's been in development since 2006 under Matrix Games, and although it's been four years in the making, the screen shots and the fact that the developers are sharing their work thus far and accepting input from the fan base, only shows how much they care for the product in my opinion. 

Here's the link to their forums.
World in Flames


----------



## Croesus (Jun 21, 2010)

Celisasu said:


> Hmm...interesting.   Do they have a clicker saying "X preorders to go"?  It'd be nice to know where things stand.  I hate the idea of preordering something that'll be vaporware as nobody is preordering.




It's been suggested and someone from ADG said they would check into it. As you can see, they haven't added such a counter yet.

Personally, I'm of two minds about a counter: I'd love to know how close we are to getting this, but if the current number is too low, it might turn off sales, meaning we might never see the product. 

Best I can do is keep my fingers crossed that there are at least 1,000 WIF'ers willing to order WIF Blitz sometime this year.


----------



## Celisasu (Jun 21, 2010)

Croesus said:


> It's been suggested and someone from ADG said they would check into it. As you can see, they haven't added such a counter yet.
> 
> Personally, I'm of two minds about a counter: I'd love to know how close we are to getting this, but if the current number is too low, it might turn off sales, meaning we might never see the product.
> 
> Best I can do is keep my fingers crossed that there are at least 1,000 WIF'ers willing to order WIF Blitz sometime this year.



Yeah, I can see the argument either way.  I lean towards the "I want a counter" mostly because I'm curious as opposed to a dedicated fan meaning I don't want to commit too early and then a year down the line have a group that's no longer interested in trying it.


----------

