# Lost: Season Premier. Tonight



## Taelorn76 (Oct 4, 2006)

Just a friendly reminder to all. That the season premier will be upon us in 7 hrs


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 5, 2006)

just a bump 2 hours to go


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## EricNoah (Oct 5, 2006)

I think this is where the show either takes a "Matrix Reloaded" turn and the rabbit hole does not in fact go down all that much deeper, or it transcends that problem and we find we've barely scratched the surface.  *crosses fingers*


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## BlueBlackRed (Oct 5, 2006)

I really hope it's going to be good.
I'd hate to have another TV show die thanks to poor decision-making and taking the audience for granted.


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## Richards (Oct 5, 2006)

I didn't get to see last week's episode, but I understand it was just a "catch you up to date on the first two seasons" clip show.  Did they progress the story any, or was it all clips?

In any case, I'm really looking forward to tonight's episode.

Johnathan


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## EricNoah (Oct 5, 2006)

All clips -- you missed nothing.  Nothing!!


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## Crothian (Oct 5, 2006)

This is going to be great!! I just hope the storms to KO my cable!!


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## Crothian (Oct 5, 2006)

What a great episode!!  That was better then I expected and hoped!!


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## BlueBlackRed (Oct 5, 2006)

It was about par with last year's start.

The only complaint I would have is that it seemed to have more commercials than usual.


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## Crothian (Oct 5, 2006)

BlueBlackRed said:
			
		

> It was about par with last year's start.
> 
> The only complaint I would have is that it seemed to have more commercials than usual.




It felt to me like there were less comercial breaks but just as many commercials


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 5, 2006)

BlueBlackRed said:
			
		

> It was about par with last year's start.
> 
> The only complaint I would have is that it seemed to have more commercials than usual.




I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.  I'd love to know the actual run-time of the show.

It was okay... Sawyer was by far the best part, and I'm looking forward to more Tom/Sawyer interaction.  "The bears did it in two."  Heh.

Kate, eh.  Ben, who will always be Fenry to me, eh.  Juliet, eh.

Jack doesn't need any more flashbacks.  Seriously.  Of course, the only person that also doesn't need more flashbacks (



Spoiler



Sun/Jin


) gets them next week.  Grumble.

I'd give it a 5/10.  Not awesome, not awful.  Tom/Sawyer pretty much saved it from being a snooze fest.  Also, props to JJA for actually opening the door in the same scene it was mentioned.


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## BlueBlackRed (Oct 5, 2006)

Either they're breaking the law with too many commercials or...they've sucked me in again


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## EricNoah (Oct 5, 2006)

The opening before the credits did blow me away.  Everything else was pretty typical for Lost, which in my book means it was pretty entertaining.


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## EricNoah (Oct 5, 2006)

Oh hey -- did anyone catch what book was being discussed at the book club -- I noticed Stephen King's name, but no title.  Anyone have a good guess?  The only book I can think of that might somehow be an appropriate fit, themewise, is The Stand (sort of a society-in-a-bottle story).


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## Ambrus (Oct 5, 2006)

I loved the intro! It answered a question that I'd been asking since I first learned that Goodwynn and Ethan were others; did the others have people standing-by ready and able to leap onto the beach and pretend to be plane crash survivors at a moment's notice? The answer is a resounding YES! Wow, those guys are scary organized!   

Oh, and I hate Juliette! Anytime either Sawyer or Jack got within arms reach of her I wanted them to lunge out and kick her in the head. I felt a surge of excitement when Jack charged across the room and attacked her. Just a shame that he started dragging her about while trying to escape. I would have slammed her head into a wall and DEMANDED SOME FREAKIN ANSWERS!!! "NO I DON'T WANT YOUR CRAP-ASSED GRILLED CHEEZE SANDWICH! I WANT TO KNOW WHAT PLANET YOU WACKOS ARE FROM!!!"


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## Jamdin (Oct 5, 2006)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Oh hey -- did anyone catch what book was being discussed at the book club -- I noticed Stephen King's name, but no title.  Anyone have a good guess?  The only book I can think of that might somehow be an appropriate fit, themewise, is The Stand (sort of a society-in-a-bottle story).




The book appeared to be one of King's thin books. I would guess that the book is _Carrie_ since most of his books are pretty thick.


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## David Howery (Oct 5, 2006)

Okay, the series is getting seriously weird now.... as we've suspected, the Others aren't grimey refugees, but live in suspiciously modern surroundings... they have access to the outside world... so, the theory that the island is some kind of huge psych experiment seems to be gaining ground....


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 5, 2006)

There were several King books in evidence, but the book they were discussing was not named and it might not even be a King book. King is a fan of the show and the writers are a fan of King, s the books may have just been a shout out, so to speak. I thought the brief bickering was funny and probably a way the writers had of flipping off critics of the show.

The entire episode was an homage to _the Prisoner_; the village where all the participants leads a pseudo-normal life, the remains of a larger project around them, that so much of it is just a complicated psych-out for people. It just needed someone yelling “I'm not a number.”

I loathe the Others and Benry (Ben + Henry). They are nothing more and nothing less than a cult of personality who make everything they touch and do more complicated and painful that it has to be because they can and they justify their actions through misappropriating faith. Let every one of them die. Let every single Other be fed to their pet shark.

People keep telling Jack to “let go” when he or they face the least resistance. If he had done that a larger number of people would be dead, including Charlie. 

No word on Sayid, Jin, Sun, Locke, Hurley or the people back on the beach. Based on the commercials we learn about Sayid, Sun and Jin next week. We will have to wait for the week after that for more of Eko, Locke, Hurely and the people on the beach. Or for that matter an episode to reveal anything about what happened to Michael and Walt once they sailed about in the S.S. Minnow.

I still want my Vincent flashback.


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## Crothian (Oct 5, 2006)

David Howery said:
			
		

> Okay, the series is getting seriously weird now.... as we've suspected, the Others aren't grimey refugees, but live in suspiciously modern surroundings... they have access to the outside world... so, the theory that the island is some kind of huge psych experiment seems to be gaining ground....




Especially the way each of the three were treated.  It seems to be they are all going to be part of the experiment, and they probably have been for a while.


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## Crothian (Oct 5, 2006)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> No word on Sayid, Jin, Sun, Locke, Hurley or the people back on the beach. Based on the commercials we learn about Sayid, Sun and Jin next week. We will have to wait for the week after that for more of Eko, Locke, Hurely and the people on the beach. Or for that matter an episode to reveal anything about what happened to Michael and Walt once they sailed about in the S.S. Minnow.




Of course we will, it is the formula for the show.


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## Mimic (Oct 5, 2006)

Well at least they kept up the part where they made incredibly stupid decisions.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 5, 2006)

Build trust and build relationships or is that the other way around.  I also thought selective breeding program.  

Way too many interruptions, I think some of the commercial breaks lasted longer than the segments.


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## xmanii (Oct 5, 2006)

I liked it, except the part where she took Jack out, with one punch.


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## TwistedBishop (Oct 5, 2006)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.  I'd love to know the actual run-time of the show.





It was 42 minutes and change, same as the first episodes of season one and two (if you consider the series pilot was two episodes stuck together).


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## dravot (Oct 5, 2006)

TwistedBishop said:
			
		

> It was 42 minutes and change, same as the first episodes of season one and two (if you consider the series pilot was two episodes stuck together).




42 minutes is the standard run-time for a 'one hour' show.


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## fett527 (Oct 5, 2006)

Still watching.  I liked it except for Juliette laying Jack out with one punch.  Meh.


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## Richards (Oct 5, 2006)

xmanii said:
			
		

> I liked it, except the part where she took Jack out, with one punch.



Yeah, I saw that and said "Hey!  Sawyer's the one who always gets beat up by women, not Jack!"

The best line in the whole episode, though, was "It only took the bears two hours."

Johnathan


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 5, 2006)

Come on, Jack never saw that punch coming, he was already strung out, look how he looked when he went to the wall before he attacked her, then the water hitting him.  I would have been more surprised if he was able to take it. which brings up the question; are they pumping Jack with drugs to mess with his mind?


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## Sir Brennen (Oct 5, 2006)

Richards said:
			
		

> The best line in the whole episode, though, was "It only took the bears two hours."



And what kind of bears would those be? Polar, maybe? At least that's one other question answered.

But why were they let out? And the aquarium emptied of sharks and dolphins? And what would the animal studies have to do with the electromagneticism thingie from the blown-up hatch? So many questions, still...


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## Arnwyn (Oct 5, 2006)

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I loved the intro! It answered a question that I'd been asking since I first learned that Goodwynn and Ethan were others; did the others have people standing-by ready and able to leap onto the beach and pretend to be plane crash survivors at a moment's notice? The answer is a resounding YES! Wow, those guys are scary organized!



Exactly so. I'm glad this episode actually went and bothered to answer at least some questions, and gave appropriate hints so we could figure things out. For example, I knew very quickly that Jack was in some sort of underwater facility (especially when he licked the dripping water and spit it out - ah! That's salt water!), etc... along with confirmation that the shark we saw was indeed yet another Dharma genetic manipulation. Also nice to see the confirmation that the Others are (or rather, were) part of the Dharma Initiative, which all fell apart after the "disaster".

It also confirms what I specifically said for the past two seasons - for all the Lostaways know thanks to their lack of exploring, there could be a resort on the other side of the island (and there was a freaking village, with infrastructure [sidewalks, etc], power, and amenities).



> Oh, and I hate Juliette! Anytime either Sawyer or Jack got within arms reach of her I wanted them to lunge out and kick her in the head. I felt a surge of excitement when Jack charged across the room and attacked her. Just a shame that he started dragging her about while trying to escape. I would have slammed her head into a wall and DEMANDED SOME FREAKIN ANSWERS!!! "NO I DON'T WANT YOUR CRAP-ASSED GRILLED CHEEZE SANDWICH! I WANT TO KNOW WHAT PLANET YOU WACKOS ARE FROM!!!"



You, sir, win this thread in my eyes.

That's _exactly_ what I was thinking. _Exactly_.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 5, 2006)

My wife and I also thought there was more comercials, but we both liked the episode though.


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## Shayuri (Oct 5, 2006)

As for the one punch thing, I seem to recall Ethan at least being really manically strong and hard to take down. It's easy to forget now that the Others are talkin', but they may still have that Popeye-Spinach thing going...


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## Demmero (Oct 5, 2006)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> It also confirms what I specifically said for the past two seasons - for all the Lostaways know thanks to their lack of exploring, there could be a resort on the other side of the island (and there was a freaking village, with infrastructure [sidewalks, etc], power, and amenities).




I'm not so sure that the Others' little commune is on the Lostaways' island...I get the feeling that it's one island away.  When the Others came out to witness the crash of Oceanic 815, it looked like it went down off in the distance.  Also, remember where Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were last seen in season 2's finale--on a pier.  Maybe that was just so Michael and Walt could drive away in their boat...or maybe the Others and their captives had a little boat trip of their own to make.  My theory also would explain why the Others destroyed the raft when they abducted Walt even though there was no way the Losties could've used it to pursue them.

Also, if the Others have released the polar bears from captivity, it would make sense to put them somewhere else where they won't be a threat to attack them every time they leave their compound.

I'm getting the feeling that the Others have left the Hanso Foundation's goals and practices in the rearview mirror and now have their own agenda and ways of doing things.


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## Demmero (Oct 5, 2006)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> As for the one punch thing, I seem to recall Ethan at least being really manically strong and hard to take down. It's easy to forget now that the Others are talkin', but they may still have that Popeye-Spinach thing going...




Heh, maybe I'm over-analyzing, but Henry Gale's hearing was awfully good when they had him locked up in the hatch's armory.  In contrast, when Ana Lucia was in there interviewing Henry and Jack tried to listen in, he said something like "I can't hear a thing in there."

Maybe the Others _are_ a bit superhuman.


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## Brown Jenkin (Oct 5, 2006)

One down and 5 to go before I drop the show entirely. They had better work hard the next 5 episodes for me to start caring again.


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## Cor Azer (Oct 5, 2006)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> One down and 5 to go before I drop the show entirely. They had better work hard the next 5 episodes for me to start caring again.




I'm curious, is there a particular thing about the show's progress that's irking you?


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 5, 2006)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> I'm curious, is there a particular thing about the show's progress that's irking you?



I would guess, just how irrational the Lostaways are being.  Okay, here you are in the place where the answers are, you are not being hurt really, people are being nice other than holding you, you can sit back and learn.  You don't have to do a thing and just listen and wait but what happens?  Jack is off his rocker, Sawyer runs amock and Kate does what?    

While this seems to be in their character, you have to wonder IF they are not being treated for something.  

And let us look at Kate, did I miss something?  What happened between Henry and her and the time she was placed in the cage?


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## Ambrus (Oct 5, 2006)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> You, sir, win this thread in my eyes.
> 
> That's _exactly_ what I was thinking. _Exactly_.



Yay! I won the thread!

*Tra-la-la-la-la!*

You'll all have to excuse my exuberance; I don't often win threads and unfortunately prancing about and congratulating oneself is about the only reward involved AFAIK.


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## CrusaderX (Oct 5, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I would guess, just how irrational the Lostaways are being.  Okay, here you are in the place where the answers are, you are not being hurt really, people are being nice other than holding you, you can sit back and learn.  You don't have to do a thing and just listen and wait but what happens?  Jack is off his rocker, Sawyer runs amock and Kate does what?




I don't see that as irrational at all.  Jack, Kate, and Sawyer all know that the Others are lying, child-abducting murderers.  Why would Jack expect truth and kindess from them?  Sitting back and doing nothing as a captive of lying, child-abducting murderers would be alot more irrational here.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 5, 2006)

Demmero said:
			
		

> I'm not so sure that the Others' little commune is on the Lostaways' island...I get the feeling that it's one island away.  When the Others came out to witness the crash of Oceanic 815, it looked like it went down off in the distance.  Also, remember where Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were last seen in season 2's finale--on a pier.  Maybe that was just so Michael and Walt could drive away in their boat...or maybe the Others and their captives had a little boat trip of their own to make.  My theory also would explain why the Others destroyed the raft when they abducted Walt even though there was no way the Losties could've used it to pursue them.



No they are on the same island. When Benry ( for you Celt   ) sent Goodwin and Ethan out to the crash sites they mentioned something about getting there in an hour. Also remember when Anna Lucia called out Goodwin she stated that he came out of the jungle dry


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## Reynard (Oct 5, 2006)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> I don't see that as irrational at all.  Jack, Kate, and Sawyer all know that the Others are lying, child-abducting murderers.  Why would Jack expect truth and kindess from them?  Sitting back and doing nothing as a captive of lying, child-abducting murderers would be alot more irrational here.




Word.  There'a also the issue that they have been drugged and starved and kept in clausterphobic conditions.  Hardly "kind".


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## Demmero (Oct 5, 2006)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> No they are on the same island. When Benry ( for you Celt   ) sent Goodwin and Ethan out to the crash sites they mentioned something about getting there in an hour. Also remember when Anna Lucia called out Goodwin she stated that he came out of the jungle dry




Still not convinced; if anything, I think your example helps out my theory.  I still think the crash looked like it happened a decent distance away from the Others' commune.  And how long did it take Sawyer, Jin, Michael and the Tailies to walk back to the Losties' camp?  A lot more than an hour.  And with the island's hilly terrain, I think it'd take a lot more than an hour for Ethan and Goodwin to reach opposite sides of the island.

It seems more likely (to me anyways) that the Others hopped in boats and dropped off their infiltrators close to each crash site.

Oh, and I forgot to mention another tidbit that makes me think the Others are on a different island nearby--the previews for coming shows showed Henry Gale making a big deal about the Losties having found a boat of their own.  If the Others are on thier own island, they're pretty safe from the Losties...unless the Losties get their own boat or start building rafts.

The whole quarantine issue also makes me think that maybe the Dharma folk abandoned the Losties' island and set up shop somewhere else close by.  Just guessing, of course


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## Brown Jenkin (Oct 5, 2006)

It is the same island. Durring the opening they pulled the camera out showing first the village and then the village in a clearing and finally a good chunk of the island with one of the crash sites being just over some hills and around the corner on the beach from the valley with the village. It is definitelty one island.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 5, 2006)

Demmero said:
			
		

> Still not convinced; if anything, I think your example helps out my theory.  I still think the crash looked like it happened a decent distance away from the Others' commune.  And how long did it take Sawyer, Jin, Michael and the Tailies to walk back to the Losties' camp?  A lot more than an hour.  And with the island's hilly terrain, I think it'd take a lot more than an hour for Ethan and Goodwin to reach opposite sides of the island.
> 
> It seems more likely (to me anyways) that the Others hopped in boats and dropped off their infiltrators close to each crash site.[\QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 5, 2006)

Reynard said:
			
		

> Word.  There'a also the issue that they have been drugged and starved and kept in clausterphobic conditions.  Hardly "kind".



Just playing devil's advocate: 
..Drugged could be inculated.
..I did not see starved, I saw all three have food offered.  Sure Sawyer went for the fish biscuit but then I thought Zeke was surprised he did.  
..Clausterphobic?  Sorry, those cells were way beyond 6x6 in size.  
..Both groups have killed and the Lostaways were doing the whole lord of the fly thing, in fighting, torturing their own, etc. 
..Kid Napping.  Or protective custody from the sick and the lord of the flys?  

Yes, I don't trust them, nor do I feel they are nice people but things are not what they seem.  

I am rather sure it is the same island but the village looks to be in a protected valley, only may have tunnels and a waterway to get to it, say, cone of a volcano.  Think back to the food drop and no sound or lights from a plane, mmmmm.


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## Demmero (Oct 5, 2006)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I would say that the other just don't want people escaping the island and telling the world about their existance there. Benry is crazy enough that he does not want ot risk anything that will disrupt his little happy life. I think they are so far out that there is no way that Michael will find any help. And if Michael does follow those coordinates it will likely him to a Dharma facility where he will be a prisoner. Though we all know what is really going to happen. He will feel guilty and return to the island.




How do you explain Desmond's inability to escape the island?  He was in a race around the world...apparently a superb sailor...and yet he couldn't escape.  And I'm pretty sure that Benry said something to Michael that escape from the island by boat was next to impossible.  

Nah, I'm still convinced that there's something in the ocean nearby that the Dharma folks don't want the Losties to find.  (And remember Rousseau's cables running out into the water.)




			
				Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> The quarantine was on the inside of the hatch meaning the outside world was infected. And we know that is not true due the past two seasons.




Maybe it was.  Maybe it still is.  I wish I hadn't been nice and lent my season 1 DVDs to one of my sister's friends...anyone recall how long it took Rousseau's companions to 'get sick?'  And if the clues are to be believed, Rousseau's been living alone on the island for at least 16 years...and the orientation movie was made around 1980 or so, meaning that the original 'incident' occurred some time previously.  Depending upon the nature of the 'infection,' isn't it possible or even likely that the island's frequent heavy downpours might've washed away whatever the infection might've been?


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## ThirdWizard (Oct 5, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I would guess, just how irrational the Lostaways are being.  Okay, here you are in the place where the answers are, you are not being hurt really, people are being nice other than holding you, you can sit back and learn.  You don't have to do a thing and just listen and wait but what happens?  Jack is off his rocker, Sawyer runs amock and Kate does what?




Jack is being amazingly rational. He's being psychologically tortured, ala "There are FOUR lights!" Stop pulling the chain and she'll tell you about your friend. Sit in the corner and be good and she'll give you your food. It's conditioning. At first the requests sound reasonable, but that's only to break down your defenses. Then he tries to escape from his confinement by taking a hostage. He doesn't trust the Others and opens the door. Everything he did was perfectly reaonable.

Sawyer tries to escape. Now, maybe he shouldn't have trusted the other escapee and run a different way than told, but all that happened pretty quickly. He took off. A sane person would have sat in the cell and tried to James Bond his way out by seducing Julette and then pulling a Rambo? I don't think so. A sane person would run the heck away and try to get help!

Kate probably should have resisted more, but that would be less in character for her than other characters. She didn't get nearly as much screen time as the others. She took a shower, put on the dress instead of wearing the towel (leaving the clothes was a mistake in hindsight, but that's 20/20). It does, however, look like she didn't eat the breakfast she was offered in some defiance since she at the fish biscuit. Then she was thrown behind bars.

I'm not sure what you expect exactly.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 5, 2006)

It is interesting how many people seem to closely associate being moral and sane with acting like a sheep. That somehow resisting captors who go out of their way to be mysterious, trying to escape, refusing to be passive while one is abused and used, trying to fix bad situations and control your life all somehow become immortal and irrational in the eyes of many.

Me, I would have told Tom to go f*** himself, field tackled Juliet before she shot me with the taser and tried to make it out the door Benry used. I would see that they are going to try to brainwash/condition me into being another of Benry's minions and I would not cooperate any of the Others in the sad and sorry cult or personality. 

The Others have tried to use the Lostaways like a herd of sheep, picking off members when it suits them. This works for the Others but is a poor life for the Lostaways.


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## TogaMario (Oct 5, 2006)

I loved the episode last night  Lost never fails to impress with well written character backgrounds and the ever-elusive main plot. I think the Others are trying to break those characters spirits of bad habits or undesirable traits, possibly for inception into the Other - utopia. Maybe at their core, they have traits that the others need in their society, like a doctor, a conman (much like Ethan and Goodwin, who were able to lie well) and someone quite capable of murder if it suits her (and possibly a Fenry object of affection since he doesn't seem to be on good terms with Juliet).

Also, the kid in the other cage was probably put their by the others to help Sawyer escape, and get him caught / show him that they're gonna hurt whoever helps him escape. Now freckles is in the cage across the way, and if she gives him a chance to escape, will he think twice about it?


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## TwistedBishop (Oct 5, 2006)

Jamdin said:
			
		

> The book appeared to be one of King's thin books. I would guess that the book is _Carrie_ since most of his books are pretty thick.





The book was indeed Carrie.  You can see the title if you freeze-frame when the rumbling starts to hit.


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## TogaMario (Oct 6, 2006)

It's also pretty funny because Benry/Fenry also made a comment about Stephen King when he was being held in the hatch's gun room when they gave him reading material. "No Stephen King?"


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## Richards (Oct 6, 2006)

TogaMario said:
			
		

> Also, the kid in the other cage was probably put their by the others to help Sawyer escape, and get him caught / show him that they're gonna hurt whoever helps him escape.



Oh, I'm quite convinced the kid was a plant by the Others.  I figured they did it so that Sawyer would "bond" with the kid as "he's obviously on my side, since he's trying to escape, too."  Then, at a later time, they can use the kid as an inside plant to find out what Sawyer and the rest might be planning (or whatever).

Of course, that said, I was kind of surprised they didn't return him to his cage (perhaps with a better lock) after they "caught" him.  But I'm sure we'll be seeing him in the role of "captured prisoner, just like Sawyer" again pretty soon.

Johnathan


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## Richards (Oct 6, 2006)

That reminds me - that was a really sweet touch, having Sawyer toss his little fishy biscuit over to Kate, considering all of the effort and frustration he went through to get it.  I'll bet he made a bunch of "Kate points" with that simple gesture.

Johnathan


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 6, 2006)

Sawyer's joke about requesting the cell Kate was stuck in was also funny. Still, I wanted more resistance from the gang and for one of them to realize they are facing brainwashing.


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## Psionicist (Oct 6, 2006)

Am I the only one who thought the episode was _painfully_ bad? In season 1, the show was about a mysterious hole in the ground. Season 2 was about mysterious "others" in the forest. And now, we have a mysterious town on the island? Whats next, in the season 4 premier we will learn about the mysterioys loch ness monster living nearby, then at season 6 be introduced to another mysterious island? The formula is simply to introduce mysterious < noun >, add mysterious music when filming < noun > then repeat this for as many seasons as possible until the viewers don't care anymore and find another show.

Nah, I've had it with this serie.


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## RangerWickett (Oct 6, 2006)

Except that they've stated they only intend to have 4 seasons. From my knowledge, Alias -- J.J. Abrams' other series -- was good until the network told him he couldn't end it. I trust him to know how to properly end a show.


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## TwistedBishop (Oct 6, 2006)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> Except that they've stated they only intend to have 4 seasons. From my knowledge, Alias -- J.J. Abrams' other series -- was good until the network told him he couldn't end it. I trust him to know how to properly end a show.




I wouldn't know about Alias, considering I watched the first season and didn't fall in love with it enough to keep watching.   I do hope Abrams has a definite end in mind, that it's not too far off, and that ABC actually lets him do it (considering Lost's huge popularity, I fear this last condition will never happen).  

The flashbacks have always been a very limited time formula.  I truly don't want to see the characters become jokes as their histories become more and more ludicrous.


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## David Howery (Oct 6, 2006)

_*smacks forehead*_

The shark tank!  Okay, that's where the shark with the Darma logo came from.... I totally missed that when I was watching this episode.. duh...


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 6, 2006)

If the Abrams and Lindaloff (sp?) are able to end the show after four or five seasons, I think we will start getting answers of some kind soon, either directly or indirectly. In this episode, _A Tale of Two Cities_, we got a number of answers, but they were all indirect ones;

•	The Others are not hillbillies, but live in a well maintained community with contemporary technology.

•	The Others are also in contact with the outside world – they are getting clothing, books and information about the Lostaways.

•	Benry (Who I now think may be an incarnation of Randal Flagg) is the leader of the community. No one questions him. It seems he leads the group like Jim Jones led his own cult.

•	They are setting the Lostaways they are holding up for some brainwashing where they will (try) to make them think the Others and Benry are cooler than sliced bread.

No one “told” the Lostaways this information, we (the viewers) just had to pay attention.

So I expect we will learn more about the jabberwocky (i.e. the guardian smoke monster), the Dharma Initiative, the Others and so forth and so on. We will just have to pay attention.


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## Sir Brennen (Oct 6, 2006)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> •	Benry (Who I now think may be an incarnation of Randal Flagg) is the leader of the community. No one questions him. It seems he leads the group like Jim Jones led his own cult.



Though some seem to have doubts or other problems with Benry's rule... remember Julia's emotional moment in the first couple of minutes. Though her lack of reaction to being shut in to drown does show exactly how much control he has over the other Others.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 6, 2006)

Sir Brennen said:
			
		

> Though some seem to have doubts or other problems with Benry's rule... remember Julia's emotional moment in the first couple of minutes.



First, that could easily have been _because_ of Ben's rule, and second, if you don't break down in private now and then in such an incredibly insane situation then you're psychotic, and that's no help.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2006)

I am now thinking that LOST is more a remake of THE PRISONER - this is the ERUEKA for all those spys and master minds who wanted sharks with freaking laser beams.  It is their think tank or at least was at one time.


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## spacemonkey (Oct 6, 2006)

What was that comment Benry made at the beginning of the episode (right when the others were outside watching the plane after he started giving orders)?  Something like "Well, I guess I'm out of the book club now" or similar?

That sounded to me like what had just happened (either the crash or the orders he had given or both) had changed something about the heirarchy of the others' group - like he was just one of them (at least in name) until something went down, and he assumed (re-assumed?) control of the group...  Anyone else think that was a strange comment?


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## Elodan (Oct 6, 2006)

Paraphrasing: 
"Why Sawyer?  You said, what did you do with Sawyer and Jack.  Why Sawyer first?"

I thought that exact same thing 2 seconds before Benry said it.

I enjoyed the episode.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2006)

spacemonkey said:
			
		

> What was that comment Benry made at the beginning of the episode (right when the others were outside watching the plane after he started giving orders)?  Something like "Well, I guess I'm out of the book club now" or similar?
> 
> That sounded to me like what had just happened (either the crash or the orders he had given or both) had changed something about the heirarchy of the others' group - like he was just one of them (at least in name) until something went down, and he assumed (re-assumed?) control of the group...  Anyone else think that was a strange comment?




Interesting theory, but IIRC he looked down at the book in her hands before he said that.


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## Crothian (Oct 6, 2006)

Elodan said:
			
		

> Paraphrasing:
> "Why Sawyer?  You said, what did you do with Sawyer and Jack.  Why Sawyer first?"
> 
> I thought that exact same thing 2 seconds before Benry said it.
> ...




I think that's looking for something where they might not be something.  I've seen no evidence that Kate is actually that careful with her words that order would really matter.


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## spacemonkey (Oct 6, 2006)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Interesting theory, but IIRC he looked down at the book in her hands before he said that.




Did he?  I guess I missed that part.  The comment makes sense if he did though.





			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> I think that's looking for something where they might not be something. I've seen no evidence that Kate is actually that careful with her words that order would really matter.




I agree, but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to make her think about it, or worry about why he said it - I get the feeling the Others are good at that sort of thing     Or maybe Kate subconsciously thinks the order is important.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 7, 2006)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I think that's looking for something where they might not be something.  I've seen no evidence that Kate is actually that careful with her words that order would really matter.




I think you person would mention someone they cared about more first. And I think that is what Benry was getting trying to point out. It seemed like she was shy toward Sawyer after when they put her in the cage


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## Cthulhudrew (Oct 7, 2006)

spacemonkey said:
			
		

> What was that comment Benry made at the beginning of the episode (right when the others were outside watching the plane after he started giving orders)?  Something like "Well, I guess I'm out of the book club now" or similar?




I got the impression that he hadn't been invited to the meeting. That, plus the little exchange between him and Juliette at the end, leads me to believe there is some tension between the two of them. A power struggle brewing.

What I really found interesting was Ethan's presence at Juliette's house (seemingly). Were the two of them an item (which might cause some tension over the fact that he was killed by the Lostaways), or was he just helping fix something at her house out of a sense of communal goodwill?


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## TwistedBishop (Oct 7, 2006)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I got the impression that he hadn't been invited to the meeting.





No, he was part of the book club that we see meet in the opening.  One of the members there, when complaining about the book selection for that week, says:  "I can see why Ben isn't here.  Sorry Juliette, I know the host picks the book, but he wouldn't read this thing in the damn bathroom."


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 7, 2006)

TwistedBishop said:
			
		

> No, he was part of the book club that we see meet in the opening.  One of the members there, when complaining about the book selection for that week, says:  "I can see why Ben isn't here.  Sorry Juliette, I know the host picks the book, but he wouldn't read this thing in the damn bathroom."




I forgot about that reference.


As for Ethan being at Juliette's I thought of him as a handy man more than anything.


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## Cthulhudrew (Oct 7, 2006)

TwistedBishop said:
			
		

> No, he was part of the book club that we see meet in the opening. One of the members there, when complaining about the book selection for that week, says:  "I can see why Ben isn't here.  Sorry Juliette, I know the host picks the book, but he wouldn't read this thing in the damn bathroom."




I gathered that he used to be a part of the book club, but from his comments, it seemed clear (to me) that he hadn't been invited by Juliette, the hostess. If he had chosen not to be present, then why would he make a comment about being out of the book club?

As for the comment about "I can see why [he] isn't here," if Juliette hadn't invited Ben, and they were having difficulties between them, she probably wouldn't let anyone else know, and it would be an easy assumption by the others that Ben had chosen not to be present on that day.

His comment doesn't make sense any other way.


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## TwistedBishop (Oct 7, 2006)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I gathered that he used to be a part of the book club, but from his comments, it seemed clear (to me) that he hadn't been invited by Juliette, the hostess.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> His comment doesn't make sense any other way.




It came off to me as "looks like I'm about to get very busy with this plane crash hassle".  If she had really told him not to come to the meeting, why bring it up then?  They would have already spoken about it.  If she had simply not told him about it, the issue would have come up before then as well, since a meeting like tha is planned in advance.


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## RigaMortus2 (Oct 7, 2006)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> No they are on the same island. When Benry ( for you Celt   ) sent Goodwin and Ethan out to the crash sites they mentioned something about getting there in an hour. Also remember when Anna Lucia called out Goodwin she stated that he came out of the jungle dry




Which would not make any sense.  If you look at the pic of where the village is in relation to the tail section, it would take them longer than an hour to get to, it is so far away.  Remember, they are going through 95% jungle/forest/brush.

On the other hand, let's say it did take an hour.  This is inconsistant from when we first see Ethan.  We first see him emerge from the jungle as the tailies (I think Anna Lucia specifically) is just emerging from the water.  Do you think it took them 1 whole hour to get from the water to the beach?  I think it would have taken a lot less time than 1 hour to do that.  If it took an hour, they probably wouldn't have drowned.  Doesn't make sense.


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## Cthulhudrew (Oct 7, 2006)

TwistedBishop said:
			
		

> If she had simply not told him about it, the issue would have come up before then as well, since a meeting like tha is planned in advance.




Or she could have invited everyone else and not him. 

Recall the situation- everyone comes outside because of the shaking and the noise, Ben sees Juliette, looks meaningfully at the book she is holding, realizes she held the book club meeting without inviting him, and makes his comment.


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## RigaMortus2 (Oct 7, 2006)

There are two main things (answers) I am looking for in this season:

1) Information about the Valenzetti Equation (4 8 15 16 23 42)
(See a very interesting video here)

2) The smoke monster


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## RigaMortus2 (Oct 7, 2006)

Oh yeah, how do they have information on Jack's entire life???  Current theories I have heard:

1) They drugged Jack with a truth serum and asked all these questions in advance.

2) Walt has some sort of psychic abilities, and they gained all the info from Walt.  Remember at the end of Season 2 when they let Walt go, Henry makes a comment like (paraphrasing) "We got more from Walt than we ever expected" or something like that.  This is my current theory 

The other thing, when Julliete asks Jack what he wants to know about his wife, Jack asks "Is she happy" and she replies "Yes".  How would she know this?  Some people think they are keeping tabs on her.  My theory is simply that they have no idea and are full of BS and she only told Jack "Yes" because she felt that is what he wanted to hear.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 7, 2006)

The book club; my feeling is that Julliete and Benry had a relationship that fell apart, simple as that, they still have to work together but socialize is a bit much.  

As far as the information on Jack, again simple, they have contact with the outside world.  They would not have to drug him, everything about him would be on the news and internet soon after the plane went missing.  

The biggest question that I would like to see answered, why them?  Jack, yes, he was the leader.  Kate maybe to control Jack.  Sawyer is trouble.  Sure they create a void with the other lostaways but one that Locke, Syhid, or Hugo, could fill. Only thing I can think would be their skill sets.


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## Crothian (Oct 7, 2006)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> 1) They drugged Jack with a truth serum and asked all these questions in advance.
> 
> 2) Walt has some sort of psychic abilities, and they gained all the info from Walt.  Remember at the end of Season 2 when they let Walt go, Henry makes a comment like (paraphrasing) "We got more from Walt than we ever expected" or something like that.  This is my current theory




Assuming one believes that they knew his wife was happy, that was info Jack didn't know so Walt couldn't have known either.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 8, 2006)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> I think it would have taken a lot less time than 1 hour to do that...




I took it that Goodwin was huffing it on foot through trailless jungle over some distance. So, yeah, it would have taken at least an hour to get there.

The Others do not give a d**n about the Lostaways. Under the leadership of Benry, they just run them like a herd of sheep. 

I do have an issues with the show. The level of power Benry possesses and uses seems inconsistant. I have trouble believing Juliette could just dump him from the book club without reprisal.

How does he maintain the to-the-death loyalty of the Others without some negitive reenforcement?


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## Psionicist (Oct 8, 2006)

I have written about this before, but I think it deserves another post.

A TV-network is in the business of selling advertisement. Sure, we viewers pay a small fee to watch their shows, but the main income comes from selling ad space. It obviously follows that a small network with few viewers will make less money than a large network with popular shows and many viewers.

Now here's the trick. *It is not in the interest of the networks to air great shows, but good enough shows.*. A decent/good show is an investment for the network. If they find something people will like, they will earn more money seilling advertisement. On the other hand, if they only air bad shows, no one will watch, and the companies who pay for ads will pay less.

By the law of the least common denominator, it follows that the network will earn more money if they have 60 million viewers who find the show "good enough", instead of say 30 million who think the serie is "the best ever". TV-shows are not much different from Hollywood blockbusters. Think about it and why it makes sense.

If this is still unclear, lets take an example. As a geek, I think it would be cool to create a science and math show. Sort of like the shows on Discovery but geekier and more hard core. I start my TV network executive career by airing recorded lectures by Richard Feynman. The physics geeks will love me. I don't get as many viewers tho. I dumb-down the program. I lose my core audience, but at least got more viewers. My show is now "good enough", instead of "great". The geeks are disappointed.

This is why every single TV-show that becomes really popular will end in disappointment for those who find that "decent" is not good enough.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 8, 2006)

Psionicist said:
			
		

> It is not in the interest of the networks to air _great_ shows, but _good enough_ shows.[/b]




Great is a matter of taste. Further, one of the reasons the shows producers are trying to end it at four or five seasons it to end it when it it good rather than running it into the ground.


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## Crothian (Oct 8, 2006)

Psionicist said:
			
		

> This is why every single TV-show that becomes really popular will end in disappointment for those who find that "decent" is not good enough.




Not every single one.  There are some that ended and I was as happy with it then as I'd always been.


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## BlueBlackRed (Oct 8, 2006)

So I'm guessing Ethan was just strong in season 1 because he's just a normal freak rather than a special freak?

I hope the Stephen King book was The Stand. Personal preference, though several King books would fit into the semi-vague descriptions they gave during the book club.

And if the Others are really the "good guys" I'd say they're a Doctor Doom kind of good guy (they don't see themselves as evil) where they're fighting a potential Captain Tripps to save billions but they need subjects to test on. But that's just conjecture...


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## RigaMortus2 (Oct 8, 2006)

BlueBlackRed said:
			
		

> I hope the Stephen King book was The Stand. Personal preference, though several King books would fit into the semi-vague descriptions they gave during the book club.




It was already confirmed that it was the book _Carrie_


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 8, 2006)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> How does he maintain the to-the-death loyalty of the Others without some negitive reenforcement?



Think this was shown with the kid in the cage next to Sawyer's, that there are rules to be followed and the failure is extreme, you also had the fear Ethan had of failure with Claire's bady in the 2nd season.  Dracoian rules maybe.  

Unless the kid was a plant.


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## John Crichton (Oct 10, 2006)

Chiming in late here...

That premiere was excellent and exhibited everything the show is all about.  Setting the stage was something I was worried about and they did it nicely.  Great job not cutting back and forth with the rest of the group as far as storytelling goes.  Introducing new characters with 3 of the mains was the way to go.  Otherwise, info overload.

Looking forward to how things are going at camp and on the boat...


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 10, 2006)

I wonder if Jin dies or Sayid does cause I think someone will die in the second episode.


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## Phoenix8008 (Oct 11, 2006)

Wow, loved it. Well, a couple points. A friend told me that the actors names that play Michael and Walt are no longer in the opening credits. I didn't tape it so I can't confirm this. Doesn't mean they couldn't be back as guest appearences, but I think they kept Walt's actor's name in the opening credits all last season even though he was only there a little. Maybe others can confirm this from taped or Tivo'd rewatching.

Secondly, I think the reason that Benry would be nervous about the Losties having a boat is obvious. Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and maybe Hurley (not sure if he had left yet or not) were there on the pier when Benry told Michael to just follow compass heading 325 to escape the island! If Hurley was there and takes that knowledge back to camp, or if any of the three captives escape then the boat is sailing for freedom baby!

Overall, I liked it alot. Can't wait for more backstory on the Others and maybe some converted Tailies and such. I would also love to find out more about the smoke creature (if it still exists after the hatch is blown).

Theory: With the electromagnetic field gone, so might go the healing effect that fixed Locke's legs, Rose's cancer, and Jin's infertility. Maybe suddenly, or maybe with a slow fade. We'll see. But can't you just see Eko carrying Locke bodily out of the jungle and back to the beach cause his legs are useless again!?

Also, I really hope Desmond survived. I'd like to see more of him. Not to mention seeing what his girlfriend is gonna do now that she has a location!


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## RangerWickett (Oct 11, 2006)

My current theory is that Kate is Sidney Bristow, given plastic surgery and a set of altered memories so she could infiltrate the Dharma Initiative.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 12, 2006)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> My current theory is that Kate is Sidney Bristow, given plastic surgery and a set of altered memories so she could infiltrate the Dharma Initiative.





No, no, no...

She's Sidney's other sister. As compared to her Other sister. 
 

I wonder if there will ever be some kind of cross over.


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