# Epic Game



## Wynter Wolf (Feb 16, 2004)

I am Interested in playing in an Epic lvl game. I am currently running an Epic game but would like to play in one also i am sure there are others interested also after the fast response to my game thread when i started mine.


Anyone interested??


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## Wrahn (Feb 16, 2004)

I am interested in playing if there is someone interested in running.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 16, 2004)

I.
Want.
To.
Play.


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## Velmont (Feb 16, 2004)

I would like to try a concept in an Epic Game, so if something start, I would like to join.


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## Jemal (Feb 16, 2004)

JUMPS up and down waving frantically
"OOH, OOH, pick me, pick me!!!"

Epic games rarely get started and even more rarely keep going, but if we get a good DM, looks like we got some good players allready.


Hmm.. now to find a good dm....


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## Mithreander (Feb 16, 2004)

Am I good enough?


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 16, 2004)

Mithreander said:
			
		

> Am I good enough?



Woot! Game on!
I get the Flintstone Phone!


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 16, 2004)

Common sense has been beaten down, so I am going to volunteer to DM this game.  Is there a particular genre/campaign that anyone specifically wants, or should I let my imagination run free?


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 16, 2004)

Myth I think you would be great actually. Give us a Level and premise and we can get started.


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## Mithreander (Feb 16, 2004)

I see that Paxus also wants to DM a Epic thread (though he already has a very successful epic thread going right now). He has more experience with running an epic game as a pbp game, so perhaps you should let him DM... and if he's going to, then perhaps I can be the 6th player.



			
				Paxus said:
			
		

> Is there a particular genre/campaign that anyone specifically wants, or should I let my imagination run free?




I've been wanting a campaine where the players are thrown into our timeperiod (their future) so that they can 'do' something to restore the balance of magic that had been 'shutdown' for so long that the past that the characters know have all been discounted as mythe. 

I'd like to see the 'primitive' characters face our law choked world and face the consequences of their actions based on todays mentalities. 

Just a thought, and what I was thinking about running, but much rather play in.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 16, 2004)

Mithreander said:
			
		

> I see that Paxus also wants to DM a Epic thread (though he already has a very successful epic thread going right now). He has more experience with running an epic game as a pbp game, so perhaps you should let him DM... and if he's going to, then perhaps I can be the 6th player.
> 
> I've been wanting a campaine where the players are thrown into our timeperiod (their future) so that they can 'do' something to restore the balance of magic that had been 'shutdown' for so long that the past that the characters know have all been discounted as mythe.
> 
> ...




I honestly didn't realize that you were volunteering to DM, not as player 6; it's still too early in the morning for me.  That's an interesting campaign idea, but I'm not sure how well I could run it.  If everyone else wants it, I can give it a try.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 16, 2004)

As Epic levels... as I've never been in an Epic campaign, I have no ideas what to expect, so can't offer ideas.


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 16, 2004)

myths idea seems interesting. But hey as long as you dont tell me i need d20 modern i can find it interesting. Tho more traditional appeals to me as well.


What about levels?? I think mid 20's


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## Jemal (Feb 16, 2004)

Mith's idea sounds really good, I like it...  

I was going to suggest something based around the premise of a war, and offer ideas for that, but I think I like the time-travelling more...

Hmm, the epic character I had in mind would be VERY interesting in a campaign like that.. *L* It's freaking DBZ!

(I was thinking Monk/Sorc.... lets see: flying, fighting, shooting balls/bolts of explosive energy, all in the Modern time?  Yep, official, I'm Vegeta. lol)

hmm, actually I might stick straight sorc, depending on lvl.


Also we want 3.0 or 3.5?


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 16, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Mith's idea sounds really good, I like it...
> 
> I was going to suggest something based around the premise of a war, and offer ideas for that, but I think I like the time-travelling more...
> 
> ...




I prefer 3.5 and was thinkin Paladin can you see the stir from being able to cure any disease id be famous quickly.


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## Wrahn (Feb 16, 2004)

When I first read the epic level handbook, I thought the monsters in there were way out of bounds.  As my Real Life campaign has just entered epic levels, I am begining to thing that perhaps they didn't go far enough.

Coming to the modern world in the situation where magic worked and we were epic level characters would give us an edge of terrific proportions.  Coming to  the future with epic characters where magic did not work, would limit the characters we could functionally use.  (Mostly rogue and fighter types)  I am game for whatever though.


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## Mithreander (Feb 16, 2004)

I also would prefer 3.5. As to the campaine, I was thinking over my notes about the last time I played a simular campaine (more then 5 years ago) and I think that Modern D20 would just... complicate things to much. Stick with the basics, is what I was planning. Armor piercing bullets? Okay, armor and natural armor are not taken into effect. Gernade? 10d6 fireball, with 50% of damage physical sound good? Small nukular warhead? 200d12+400 fireball with 50% physical damage, reflex for half, ignoring improved evation, cover offers protection based on logic (hopefully we will NOT have to face one of these!)

As to magic, the question is will any of it work in the future until the characters make it available? I say no, so your sorceror may be a little... helpless, though his charisma should carry him through (Hitler anyone?)

As to Devine powers... are their gods still available to grant thier spells? And if so, how powerful are they now that their gods are so weakened from lack of worshipors?

If a paladin can cure desease, be carefull, for every prophit and holyman to do so in the past has benn killed and persecuted!

Lot's of things for the DM to think of!


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## Mithreander (Feb 16, 2004)

I'd also say that the character should not KNOW if magic will work or not for them... but should leave it to their own imagination: 

[story]Divine being sends a celestial messenger to character: "My lord, your god has asked you to partake in a divine quest: to restore magic to the future."

Character thinks: _Wow, being a mage in the future with no magic would be very limiting, but the rewards for carrying out the gods perposed quest would be great indeed!_ Or, _Will my meer presence be enough to reawaken magic in the world? If so, then hat a School I could start: the first of mages!_


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 16, 2004)

Truth be told, I'm not sure if it's possible to challenge epic characters with non-magical means.  Sure, a tac-nuke will kill everyone who's in the blast radius, but divination means never being where the atomic weapons are.  Between Teleport and Scry alone, nothing can hide from you, and Nondetection makes you invisible to spysats and bugs.  As Wrahn points out, magic gives you a titanic edge; conversely, a 30th level wizard with no magic is an old man in funny clothing.  Sure, he's got a +15 BAB and some 70 hit points, but that doesn't stand up to a SWAT team, or even a drive-by.  Something more traditionally epic might be easier to manage.


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 16, 2004)

then maybe something more traditional.


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## Mithreander (Feb 16, 2004)

Personally, what I would have been planning for the characters, is that Magic would not work in the future, except for very low level magic, and those only with the aid of an item that was given to them on the outset of the quest. 

Further, magicitems would also not work. 

They would work in the vesinity of the 'locks' that kept magic to a minimum in the future, and those locks being guarded by many nasties that would chellange the group. 

That, and the interplay of the characters through everyday life would be a blast. 

Of course there WOULD be advesaries from this time who could challenge the characters, mainly God himself, or Satan, depending on what twist you place on the fundemental laws of magic (biblical or otherwise).


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 16, 2004)

Mithreander said:
			
		

> Of course there WOULD be advesaries from this time who could challenge the characters, mainly God himself, or Satan, depending on what twist you place on the fundemental laws of magic (biblical or otherwise).




I try to avoid using real-world religion too much in fantasy games; I'm quite likely to offend someone mightily.


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## Velenne (Feb 16, 2004)

This sounds like tons of fun!  I'll sign on if you've still got room when it falls into place.  I've always wanted to see what an Epic rogue could do.

However, I'm assuming we'd be playing Humans only.  I don't have a problem with this, but if not things would certainly be made more interesting.  

I remember reading the Ultimates comics and absoultely loving their take on a modern super-hero team.  That one had so much promise...


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 16, 2004)

Velenne said:
			
		

> This sounds like tons of fun!  I'll sign on if you've still got room when it falls into place.  I've always wanted to see what an Epic rogue could do.
> 
> However, I'm assuming we'd be playing Humans only.  I don't have a problem with this, but if not things would certainly be made more interesting.
> 
> I remember reading the Ultimates comics and absoultely loving their take on a modern super-hero team.  That one had so much promise...




Actually, I'm tending towards a more traditional epic game, though I'm still open to suggestions.


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## Velenne (Feb 16, 2004)

I guess I'm confused.   Are both Mithreander and Paxus running Epic games soon then???


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 16, 2004)

Velenne said:
			
		

> I guess I'm confused.   Are both Mithreander and Paxus running Epic games soon then???





I believe Paxus is running it. 

Regarding running the game how about some info.

I am ready to make my character tho i have lots of ideas.


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## Mithreander (Feb 16, 2004)

Yup, this ones, Paxus' game! 

As to the real religion thing, you're probably right for being careful anyway.

Just a thought in anycase (almost a spawn idea forming there... nevermind).

Yes, game/character creation rules good!


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## Pyrex (Feb 16, 2004)

Is there any space left?  If so I'd really like to join in.


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## Mithreander (Feb 16, 2004)

Pyrex, you'd be the seventh to show interest. I'm not sure howmany the game will be open to, or if this will be the thread that opens it. This was just a request for a game... that's all up to Paxus.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 16, 2004)

Epic Lower Planes?



Dear adventurers, you're trapp on the 931st layer of the abyss. You each have a divine rank 10 permanent _dimensional anchor_ placed upon you. If you can get out, you live.

What do you do?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 16, 2004)

I've come to the conclusion that I just don't have enough material to run the game Mithreander proposed.  Here's what I'm going to do for character creation:

30th level, 28 point-buy.  All core 3.5 material is acceptable, with the exception of three prestige classes: the Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, and Mystic Theurge.  Additional WotC material is probably acceptable, but I'll want to look at it first.  Non-Wizards material is more iffy, but I'm willing to look.  Starting EQ is 4.3 million gp, no item more than 1.1 million, and no more than three items more than 430,000.

The setting:  A moderately generic fantasy setting (you can make up details in your backstories), which is in the middle of a war between pantheons.  It is up to the party, the most famous and powerful group of adventurers on the planet, to preserve the world by whatever means they deem necessary.  You will have adventured together since 20th level, if not earlier, so I'd like characters to mesh well.

Edit: Everyone who has so far expressed interest is in.  That's about all there's room for.


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## John E Smoke (Feb 16, 2004)

Cripes.  A few hours too late, it would seem.


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## Mithreander (Feb 17, 2004)

SO, is a certain ring of protection a possibility?


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 17, 2004)

Can we know which pantheons are involved directly? If we're preserving the world, it'd be best to be be directly involved in the war.


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## Mithreander (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm looking at an epic level Dwarven Defender: Cleric 10 Dwarven Defender 20. Would that work?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> Can we know which pantheons are involved directly? If we're preserving the world, it'd be best to be be directly involved in the war.




At the moment, only two are involved, the Norse vs. the Egyptians, but rumblings warn that others may not be far behind; the Seldarine are frequently mentioned, and the priests of Yeenoghu are getting noiser.



			
				Mithreander said:
			
		

> SO, is a certain ring of protection a possibility?




I'll allow any item to provide any bonus that is allowed in Core rules, except for the specifically disallowed dodge bonus, and following the formula whereby any but the most common costs twice as much, and all but the most expensive secondary function on an item costs twice as much as normal.  So yes, you can build yourself a Ring of Broken AC.



			
				Mithreander said:
			
		

> I'm looking at an epic level Dwarven Defender: Cleric 10 Dwarven Defender 20. Would that work?



It would indeed; just be warned that Moradin and Odin are drinking buddies, so there's a possibility of getting conflicted loyalties.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 17, 2004)

Any problem with Druid 10(core)/Shifter 10(MotW)/Warshaper 5(CW)/Nature's Warrior 5(CW)?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> Any problem with Druid 10(core)/Shifter 10(MotW)/Warshaper 5(CW)/Nature's Warrior 5(CW)?




I'm afraid that the shifter class as written is amazingly unbalanced, as is the Warshaper.  If there's a 3.5 errata which brings the shifter into line, I'll allow it, but playing a Warshaper myself, I can attest that it's just not right.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 17, 2004)

Ok, idea #2. I require clarification from the DM for the Windrider PrC (MotW):
"This creature many not be the bonded companion (such as a familiar, paladin's mount, or animal companion) to anyone else at the time..."

The specific wording includes *to anyone else*. What if it's already bonded to that specific character... it wouldn't be bonded to anyone else.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> Ok, idea #2. I require clarification from the DM for the Windrider PrC (MotW):
> "This creature many not be the bonded companion (such as a familiar, paladin's mount, or animal companion) to anyone else at the time..."
> 
> The specific wording includes *to anyone else*. What if it's already bonded to that specific character... it wouldn't be bonded to anyone else.




You will note under the table that it specifically notes "If the chosen mount is a paladin's warhorse, the rules in the Paladin's Mount sidebar supersede those given here," so it seems clear that you may, indeed, have your own bonded companion as a mount.  I'm not sure that I see the necessity of disallowing these abilities to stack, so I will tentatively allow you to stack any one other bonded companion's abilities with those of the Windrider.  If you have the Draconomicon, you might also want to look at the Draconic Cohort feat.


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## Wrahn (Feb 17, 2004)

Okay dokey.

My real life game I play a shifter, I can attest that with things like the Pit Fiend and the bone ooze out there, the Shifter is WAY out of balance.  It may not be as bad at 30th level though.  I will give my character some thought.

Do you own the Unearthed Arcana?  Any rules that you will be using out of there?

When you say any WotC product for 3.5, do you mean 3.0 as well?  If not, you may want to caveat the epic level handbook as that is 3.0 as well 

In anycase I am pretty flexible, I am comfortable playing nearly anything.

What precisely are the gods fighting over and what general alignment should we orient our characters toward?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Do you own the Unearthed Arcana?  Any rules that you will be using out of there?
> 
> When you say any WotC product for 3.5, do you mean 3.0 as well?  If not, you may want to caveat the epic level handbook as that is 3.0 as well
> 
> ...




I do not own Unearthed Arcana; if there are any rules you think are appropriate, I can take a look at those as well.  Only the core rules and, yes, the Epic handbook are automatically allowed; other 3.0 material may be acceptable, like the Windrider.

No one knows exactly why the gods are fighting; even at your power level, (and there's no one out there bigger) they aren't in the habit of explaining themselves to mortals.  Some of it may be a metaphysical territory dispute.


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## Jemal (Feb 17, 2004)

> I'll allow any item to provide any bonus that is allowed in Core rules, except for the specifically disallowed dodge bonus, and following the formula whereby any but the most common costs twice as much, and all but the most expensive secondary function on an item costs twice as much as normal. So yes, you can build yourself a Ring of Broken AC.




Actually, I'm not certain but I think he MAY have been refering to the 'ring of universal elemental immunity'  (If not, then I'M asking about it.)

Anyways, i have lots of Q's. (Nothing permanent in mind yet, though I'm leaning towards the Epic Sorc/Archmage. just gathering info for myself and others.)

You said splat-books allowed on a case-by-case basis, right?  K, the ones I wanna know about are Forgetten Realms and Mongoose's Quintessential series.  

Will this be the ooc/char creation thread or are you starting a new one?  (I think this one'll work fine)

Are we siding with either Pantheon?  If so, which one?
(If it's up to us players, then this Q is directed to the other players.  Personally, I favour either remaining neutral or siding with the Norse.)

As for Magic Items, are we allowed to use the tables in the DMG to make special/combo items?  (Within reason, of course.)

How're we doing HP?  

*Bonus Joke question: Any reason Mystic Theurge is banned? (Other than it's extreme brokennes? *L*)


Well that's all I can think of right now, will think of more later probly.


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## Jemal (Feb 17, 2004)

Double-trouble.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Actually, I'm not certain but I think he MAY have been refering to the 'ring of universal elemental immunity'  (If not, then I'M asking about it.)
> 
> You said splat-books allowed on a case-by-case basis, right?  K, the ones I wanna know about are Forgetten Realms and Mongoose's Quintessential series.
> 
> ...




He was referring to an item my character uses in Wynter Wolf's epic game, which is perhaps somewhat more powerful than desired by the game's creators.

Much of FR is allowed, but some, notably the Incantatrix, isn't.  I don't have all that much Mongoose, though I do have Wizard; the only book I found well-done was the Monk.

This will be the character creation thread, and the OOC thread until it's too big.

The intent was that you would not side with either pantheon.  You want the war stopped, because you happen to like the land without any city-sized craters in it, thank you very much.

You can create any item within reason; instantaneous or rd/level spells are unlikely to be allowed on non-charged items.

HP will be 75% percent of maximum for every hit die after first.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 17, 2004)

Y'ok, looks like we'll try a Figher 2(core)/Paladin 17(core)/Windrider 10(MotW)/Contemplative 1(DotF) of Athena, unless you'll let me take that Sun god mythos near the back of Deities... just some stuff:

I don't know how a prestige domain works with a non-cleric. Would I get a spell per paladin level, just the 1st level spell, or just the domain power? For the record, I was going to choose Mystism as my domain.

Can I take the combined cost of _rhino hide_, and add that cost to give just the charging effect to any other armor? Reverse building makes the actual power about 900gp, but that's way undercosted.

And if it matters, choosing a pegasus as a mount. Unless somehow I can get a good-aligned nightmare at equal paladin level


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> Y'ok, looks like we'll try a Figher 2(core)/Paladin 17(core)/Windrider 10(MotW)/Contemplative 1(DotF) of Athena, unless you'll let me take that Sun god mythos near the back of Deities... just some stuff:
> 
> I don't know how a prestige domain works with a non-cleric. Would I get a spell per paladin level, just the 1st level spell, or just the domain power? For the record, I was going to choose Mystism as my domain.
> 
> ...




The prestige domain will, in fact, give you a bonus spell at each level.  The cost of rhino hide as list would actually be 1500, but since, as you say, that's far too cheap, I'll call it a +1 bonus equivalent.  The pegasus is fine.


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## Pyrex (Feb 17, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> All core 3.5 material is acceptable
> 
> ...
> 
> Edit: Everyone who has so far expressed interest is in.  That's about all there's room for.




Woo hoo!  Just made it in!

Paxus, what do you think of the Book of Exalted Deeds?
It may be asking for a world of hurt, but I've got an Exalted Paladin concept kicking around my brain.  I've been pondering the ramifications of Vow of Poverty and believe (but cannot prove) that in epic levels it's not broken.  (though I don't yet have an epic progression for it to propose)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Woo hoo!  Just made it in!
> 
> Paxus, what do you think of the Book of Exalted Deeds?
> It may be asking for a world of hurt, but I've got an Exalted Paladin concept kicking around my brain.  I've been pondering the ramifications of Vow of Poverty and believe (but cannot prove) that in epic levels it's not broken.  (though I don't yet have an epic progression for it to propose)




I have mixed feelings on the BoED.  I think I will allow Vow of Poverty with the number of bonus exalted feats decreased to 1/4 levels, rather than 1/2 with one at first.  Everything else seems to match up with what a character of that level should have (the +8 enhancement is a bit high, but you do pay two feats for it), but the 11 bonus feats is too much.


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## Phoenix (Feb 17, 2004)

I like the idea, I've always wanted to try a fantasy/future game...but at Epic levels the concept of industrialized high magic becomes a difficult tackling point for PCs and DMs alike.  I'd be interested in playing, and in watching how it develops as well...


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 17, 2004)

Ick... 2 paladins


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 17, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> Ick... 2 paladins




Lol i was goin to play a paladin also now i gotta change that.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 17, 2004)

No no... play the paladin, just play him differently. 

My paladin is gonna be a womanizer, and likes to pick fights. (Based on Michael from the movie of the same name)


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 17, 2004)

I think i am going to make a Wizard in stead so i can soften up your targets


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## Pyrex (Feb 17, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I have mixed feelings on the BoED.  I think I will allow Vow of Poverty with the number of bonus exalted feats decreased to 1/4 levels, rather than 1/2 with one at first.  Everything else seems to match up with what a character of that level should have (the +8 enhancement is a bit high, but you do pay two feats for it), but the 11 bonus feats is too much.




Keep in mind that even though the VoP grants high enhancement bonuses, the character most likely won't have nearly as many inherent bonuses as the rest of the party.

Also, the character concept I had in mind calls for taking the VoP later in his career (around lvl 12 or 15) so he won't have quite as many bonus feats anyway.


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## Velmont (Feb 17, 2004)

It is sure I will want to play a Wizard or Sorcerer.

Just a concept I would have liked to try just to see how broken it is:
Nymphe: Sorcerer 7/Mystic Theurge 10 (That would make a 30th level character) What would you think of that?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Velmont said:
			
		

> It is sure I will want to play a Wizard or Sorcerer.
> 
> Just a concept I would have liked to try just to see how broken it is:
> Nymphe: Sorcerer 7/Mystic Theurge 10 (That would make a 30th level character) What would you think of that?




Well, I did outlaw the Mystic Theurge, so that's a no go.


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## Wrahn (Feb 17, 2004)

What do you think of the epic level ECLs?  I have an idea for an Infernal (Half fiend/half god) character.


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## Pyrex (Feb 17, 2004)

With 2 paladins in the party?  I don't think that'll work so well...


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## Wrahn (Feb 17, 2004)

Bah, one is a drunk womanizer, all I need to do is distract him with pretty women...

It is an issue, but I think I can circumvent it with a brilliant history that includes me not being evil (any more).

Before I start on said brilliant history, I should probably know if it is even a possibility.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 17, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Bah, one is a drunk womanizer...



... and _likes to pick fights. _Which to I like more? 

As for not being evil... let me detect here for a second...


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## Wrahn (Feb 17, 2004)

Well me, I am evil, my character may be less so.


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## Mithreander (Feb 17, 2004)

I'll have the preliminaries of my character up today.


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## Pyrex (Feb 17, 2004)

Paxus, here's what I was thinking for the epic progression of the Ascetic template (from the VoP).

(easy part)
Armor: Continues to increase at +1/3lvls
Exalted Strike: Continues to increase at +1/5lvls
Deflection: Continues to increase at +1/6lvls
Natural Armor:  Continues to increase at +1/8lvls

(hard part)
Ability boost:  +2 to two scores @ 23rd and every 4lvls thereafter.
Bonus Exalted (or Epic Paladin) feat @ 24 & every 4lvls.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 17, 2004)

Well I only counted 50 posts during the first day...  

I'm always shocked at how many people bash epic level games and then turn around to see how quickly they fill up. 

Anyhow, I'm not here to play as a poked and prodded my way into PA other epic game but only wanted to share the above comment and tell everyone their really lucky to have PA as I'm having a blast in his other game. 

Also since I've seen a few divine characters ideas through around I'll give fair warning that PA ruled in favor of the complete warrior divine feats over the "paths of faith.” in his other game but of course he might rule differently here. 

Have fun, and I can't wait to see the characters everyone comes up with!


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## Velmont (Feb 17, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Well, I did outlaw the Mystic Theurge, so that's a no go.




I know that, and find it fine, I just wanted to know what you think of that.


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## Jemal (Feb 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Whran_
> What do you think of the epic level ECLs? I have an idea for an Infernal (Half fiend/*half god*) character.




There's a Half-God template?!?!!!?!??!?!??!?!??!

WHERE!?!?!?
*Furiously searches MM*


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## Wrahn (Feb 17, 2004)

An Infernal is a monster from the epic level handbook.  It is described as a union between a fiend and a god.  They list ECLs in the beginning of the the monster section.  No half god templates I am aware of.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm fine with the _errataed_ Epic ECLs, by which the Infernal is ECL 40.  

Pyrex, that looks like a good progression; you'll want to add in an increase of the damage reduction equivalence to epic, and probably an increase of the DR as well.

Velmont, I'm going to stand by my guns.  If you want a druid/arcane caster, a variant of the Hallowed Mage PrC in the Complete Book of Eldritch Might would probably work better.

Jemal, it's not a template, but a type of creature.  The Infernal is an Abomination, from the ELH, a kind of nasty critter that's the unwanted offspring of a deity.


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## Wrahn (Feb 17, 2004)

So does than mean no, then?  D)

Is the errata from the ELH on the WotC site?


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## Jemal (Feb 17, 2004)

'sokay, I'll be going Human Sorc 25/Archmage 5, anyway.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> So does than mean no, then?  D)
> 
> Is the errata from the ELH on the WotC site?




Yep.  In the Errata section on the lefthand side.  And no, you can't play an ECL 40 character in a 30th level game.


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## Wrahn (Feb 17, 2004)

> And no, you can't play an ECL 40 character in a 30th level game.




What if Pyrex gives up 10 of his levels?  (I am, just for reference, kidding)


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## Jemal (Feb 17, 2004)

btw, how much XP do we start with? 435,000 Is the point at which you gain lvl 30, but I'm wondering if I'll be able to do some wishing or permanency or magic item creation before the campaign starts.


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 17, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> btw, how much XP do we start with? 435,000 Is the point at which you gain lvl 30, but I'm wondering if I'll be able to do some wishing or permanency or magic item creation before the campaign starts.





Yeah what he said i am looking at a straight lvl30 wiz


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 17, 2004)

Wynter Wolf said:
			
		

> Yeah what he said i am looking at a straight lvl30 wiz




Magic items that you can make are bought at 60% of list price.  Permanent spells cost caster levelxspell levelx10, +5gp per experience point.  Epic spells cost 120% of the listed development price.  No experience need be expended for these.


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## Jemal (Feb 17, 2004)

Thank you *wicked grin*  

Anybody willing to contribue to a Party-wide Rary's Telepathic Bond?

I'll pay the base, but it'll also cost 12,500 for each person besides me in it.  (Meaning anyone who wants to be able to communicate instantaneously and telepathically over any distance on the same plane, with the rest of the party, will have to pay 12,500).
(edit: spelling)


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## Pyrex (Feb 17, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Pyrex, that looks like a good progression; you'll want to add in an increase of the damage reduction equivalence to epic, and probably an increase of the DR as well.




Ok.  Once I get home to look at my BoED again I'll put together a progression for the DR.  I'm thinking that the progression should change both the amount of the DR and what penetrates it so that it eventually tops out at something like (30/Epic and Evil).

Oh, and I'm planning on going straight-up Pal30.  (Fear the pain of two 'Great Smiting feats... )

Someone mind pitching for my share of the aforementioned bond?


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## Velmont (Feb 18, 2004)

How is psiconic in the world?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 18, 2004)

Velmont said:
			
		

> How is psiconic in the world?




I generally don't use psionics, and I'm not sure how well they fit into the campaign.  If you have a particular character concept, though, I'm willing to take a look at it.


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## Wrahn (Feb 18, 2004)

Okay it looks like we are going to need a cleric.  I am thinking Trumpet Archon 7th level cleric/1 contemplative/2 heirophant.  I am going to start developing this idea unless I hear objections.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 18, 2004)

By the gods... 2 paladins, 2 contemplatives... anyone else gonna take windrider and really screw me up?


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 18, 2004)

Ok, since you need DM's permission to take exalted feats... mightI have Celestial Mount? (man I'm gonna have a sick mount)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 18, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> Ok, since you need DM's permission to take exalted feats... mightI have Celestial Mount? (man I'm gonna have a sick mount)




I see no problem with it.


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## Velmont (Feb 18, 2004)

I had two concept that was tempting me, I will go with the second, a Figther15/Wizard3/Spellsword12. The Spellsword Epic Level are on the wizard web site, in Epic Level Magic.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 18, 2004)

Velmont said:
			
		

> I had two concept that was tempting me, I will go with the second, a Figther15/Wizard3/Spellsword12. The Spellsword Epic Level are on the wizard web site, in Epic Level Magic.




Epic Spellsword looks fine to me, given the caster progression.


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## Wrahn (Feb 18, 2004)

You okay with persistant spell feat from Tome and Blood?


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## Pyrex (Feb 18, 2004)

Ok, here's my proposed advancement for DR and ER into epic...
DR: At 24th and every 10lvls thereafter, DR improves by 5.  At level 29, DR improves to 'Epic & Evil'.

ER: At 25th and every 6lvls thereafter, energy resistance improves by 5.

Given what's listed in BoED, that's the closest I could get to a linear progression.

Edit:  Char sheet removed.  Reposted below.


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 18, 2004)

ok now im not sure what to play now

we have 2 clerics
            2 Paladins
            2 sorcerers 

not including myself


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 18, 2004)

Wynter Wolf said:
			
		

> ok now im not sure what to play now
> 
> we have 2 clerics
> 2 Paladins
> ...



Well, we have no skill-based classes, so may want a rogue or bard. Dunno how well a monk would work. And I've never seen someonf othe CW classes at epic to know how well they'd do.


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 18, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> Well, we have no skill-based classes, so may want a rogue or bard. Dunno how well a monk would work. And I've never seen someonf othe CW classes at epic to know how well they'd do.





Only prob with CW is none of the classes have info for Epic.


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 18, 2004)

Double post nothing to see here.


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## Velmont (Feb 19, 2004)

And you forgot me, Which is a Figther/Mage, but at the level I am, you can consider me more as a Big figther with small magic, as my caster level will be only 9 of wizard.

I am shaping him. Will be mostly an Hobgoblin warrior who have proven to be a great warrior for his tribe during some war against some other humanoids tribes, maybe Orcs. After the war where his tribe get out victorious, he starts to travel the world, where he start to learn something more challenging than to master his spiked chain. He finish to start to study wizardry, but fast enough, he came back on different battlefield as a mercenary, and he had started to master his magic in his old style of combat, and it is how he became a spellsword.

So it will be mainly a Hobgoblin Figther 14 / Wizard 3 / Spellsword 12.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 19, 2004)

I'm having trouble spending 4 million gold... anyone have any ideas?


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 19, 2004)

Wippit Guud said:
			
		

> I'm having trouble spending 4 million gold... anyone have any ideas?




Heck it took me 6 hours to spend the money on a 30th lvl rogue.
but i have a hide and move silent of 75 so not too bad.

i found paying the cost to combine items really helps and being a rogue with a use magic device of 40 i started buying spell stuff like a staff of the cosmos and scrolls of true ressurection that ate up some money.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 19, 2004)

Well, so far I have about 750,000 done, including the 200,000gp lance...


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## Wrahn (Feb 19, 2004)

Look at the epic level handbook, epic level equipment is a lot more expensive than normal equipment.  In anycase, in a 32nd level game that never developed I built a wizard and was running out of money.  This was my equipment:

All spell in PHB and Genesis (ELH pg 117) (320,000)
(If you wish a break down on how I got these numbers, I will be happy to provide them)
Developed Expand Consciousness (387,000)
Developed Knowledge of the Ages (405,000)

Possessions:

Ring of Wizardry IX 810,000
3 Rods of Excellent Magic(2 used) 1,950,000 
4 Blessed books (1 set and one duplicate) 50,000
Complete set of +5 Inherent Bonus books 825,000
Belt of Physical Mastery +6 (to Str, Dex, and Con) 180,000
Headband of Mental Mastery +6 (to Int, Wis, and Cha) 180,000
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 50,000
Ring of Protection +5 50,000
Ioun Stone: Dusty Rose Prism 5,000
Ioun Stone: Pale Green Prism 30,000
Ioun Stone: Orange Prism 30,000
Scroll of Genesis (ELH pg 117, used) 28,825
Stalwart +5 Mithral Buckler of Heavy Fortification 154,565
(Intelligent I 17 W 11 C 17, AL NG, Ego Speech and Telepathy, allows weilder to have free use of Improved Initiative, Evasion, and Uncanny Dodge (as a 5th level Barbarian), Heals 1/day) 
Crystal Ball 42,000
Small Flying Carpet 20,000
Hewards Handy Haversack 2,000
Decanter of Endless Water 9,000
Murlynd’s Spoon 5,400
Stone of Adaptation (as necklace, doesn’t take up an items slot) 18,000
Stone of Good Luck 20,000
Jade Circlet 1,500
Excess money 26,710

Most of that is not really applicable in your case (as most of the money was consumed in the epic spells and the rods of excellent magic to avoid the XP cost of making them) but you can get the rough Idea.


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## Velmont (Feb 19, 2004)

Don't forget all the Tomes. It's give you another +5 to your stats and it is permanent as it give you an inherant bonus. It cost 55,000gp per +1 you want, so you can spend a lot of money on that... Personnally, I have bought 5 books, the only one I didn't bought, it is the book of Charisma, and I am thinking of maybe buying a +2 or +4 for that stats, in case I have to socialize a bit more than simply Intimidate...


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## Wrahn (Feb 19, 2004)

As additional reference, here is Paxus's character's equipment in Wynter Wolf's 23rd level game, I find looking at the PC's of the DM helps understand what they want from a character:

+5 Wild Adamantine Breastplate of Greater Fire and Cold Resistance (206,200)
+5 Bracers of Mighty Fists (150,000) 
Belt of Mighty Prowess (90,000) 
Ring of Protection +5, Insight +5, Luck +5, Shield +5 (331,250) 
+5 Amulet of Natural Armor (50,000) 
Ring of Water Command (200,000 +77300, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 19, Hold Person 3/day, Detect Magic at will, 10 ranks Sense Motive, CMW 3/day, Cause Fear at will, Magic Circle v Evil at will, Haste 3/day, Ego 21)
+6 Mighty +5 Large Longbow (50,950)
Cloak of Resistance +5 (25,000) 
8 Wilding Clasps (32,000) 
Efficient Quiver (1,800) 
10 +1 Holy Arrows 
10 cold iron +1 Axiomatic Arrows 
Adamantine Greataxe

Phylactery of Kord (180,000) +6 Sacred bonus to Str and Con, twice the cost of the Belt of Mighty Prowess for a non-enhancement bonus.

Vest of Bloody Rage (90,000) +6 Morale to Strength and Con, but only when raging, frenzying etc. Same multiplier as the phylactery, but halved for the limtation. SRD suggests a 30% break for limitation to a single class; I figured that "only when using a class feature usable limited times per day" was worth a little more.


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## Pyrex (Feb 19, 2004)

*looks at the equipment list above*

*stops being worried about VoP being broken*

Wow, I'm beginning to think VoP might be seriously underpowered...


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 19, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> *looks at the equipment list above*
> 
> *stops being worried about VoP being broken*
> 
> Wow, I'm beginning to think VoP might be seriously underpowered...




I think it'll help if you bring the ability bonuses up to continue the progression evenly; At 23rd, the four ability scores you've chosen get a +2, as does one more, and at 27th and each level thereafter, every ability increases by +2.

And the Vest of Bloody Rage and the Phylacteries of Kord are no longer in existence.  They're too broken.


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## Pyrex (Feb 19, 2004)

I was (mostly) joking.  If I was concerned about power-level amongst the characters I would have built a completely different character.

I'll take a look at changing the ability scores to that progression, but I think it might be a bit much.

(but yes, those two items are mostly what sparked my comment.  I'd've never allowed them in one of my games to begin with...)


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## Mithreander (Feb 19, 2004)

Still working... going to place what I have so far just because I can:

*Thoria Deepdelver*
Female Dwarven Cleric/Dwarven Defender 10/20
Lawfull Good

Str 26 +8 (8pts +5 Inherent Bonus +6 Enhancement)
Dex 20 +5 (1pt +5 Inherant +6 Enhancement Bonus)
Con 36 +13 (10pts +2 Race +7 Level +5 Inherent +6 Enhancement)
Int 22 +6 (3pts +5 Inherent +6 Enhancement)
Wis 24 +7 (5pts +5 Inherant +6 Enhancement)
Cha 18 +4  (1pts -2 Race +5 Inherent +6 Enhancement)

Hit Points 638 (100%(8)+75%((9x8)+(20x12))+(13x30)+6)
AC 62 (10+3Dex+4Class+13Armor+7Shield+20ring+5Natural), Touch 44(10+3Dex+4Class+20Ring+7Shield), Flat 62(10+13Armor+4Class+5Natural+20Ring+3Dex+7Sheild)
Init +5
BAB/Grapple +22 (+7Cleric +10Defender+5Epic)/+17/+12/+7|+30
Speed 20 (base 20, load 12/1384, Medium Armor)
Fort +38, Ref +22, Will +32

+35/+30/+25/+20 Melee, Dwarven Waraxe, 1d10+13, 20/x3

Medium, 3'9" tall, 102 wt, 56 yrs old
Blonde hair, Blue eyes, Lightly Tanned skin

Speaks Common, Dwarven 

+24 Heal (16)
+44 Craft (armor) (33)  
+41 Listen (33)  
+41 Spot (33)
+41 Sense Motive (33)  

Feats
-Endurance
-Dodge
-Dwarves Toughness
-Diehard
-Craft Arms and Armor
-Weapon Focus (Dwarven Waraxe)
-Greater Resiliency (MotW)
-Fast Healing
-Damage Resistance +3/-
-Damage Resistance +3/-
-Damage Resistance +3/-
-Damage Resistance +3/-
-Damage Resistance +3/-
-Damage Resistance +3/-

Dwarven Traits
- +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma.
- Medium size.
- Base land speed is 20'. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).
- Darkvision 60'
- Stonecunning
- Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves treat dwarven waraxes and dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons.
- Stability
- +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
- +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
- +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.
- +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type.
- +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or metal items.
- +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal.
- Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. 
- Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon.
- Favored Class: Fighter. 

Cleric Abilities
- Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (arcana/history/religion/the planes), Profession, and Spellcraft are class skills.
- Turn Undead 7/day +4 on checks.
- Spontanious Casting
- Domains: Protection and Healing

Dwarven Defender Abilities
-  Craft), Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot are class skills.
- +4 AC bonus
- Defensive Stance (+2 Str +4 Con +4 Dodge Bonus to AC) 10/day for 18 rounds
- Uncanny Dodge
- Trap Sense +5
- Damage Reduction 31/- (includes feats)
- Improved Uncanny Dodge
- Mobile Defense
- 3 Bonus feats

Spells Prepared 6|6+1\6+1\5+1\4+1\3+1
0th- Detect Magic(x3), Guidance(x2), Purify Food and Drink
1st- Devine Favor (x4), Entropic Shield(x2): Cure Lt Wds.
2nd- Shield Other (x6): Shield Other
3rd- Invisability Purge, Meld Into Stone, Wind Wall, Water Breathing, Prayer: Protection from Energy
4th- Divine Power(x4): Cure Crit Wds
5th- Righteous Might(x2), True Seeing: Cure Lt Wds, Mass

Background
Thoria was cleric of some prestigue until the call to defend her clan came and most of the males of the caln were killed in a war against a neiboring drow comunity. From that point to the present, she has been protecting her home, though recently, it's indirectly with the band of adventures that she's been with for the past 5 years.

(more to come as we figure out OUR history)
Personality
Thoria is a very undwarfish dwarf. She's not gruff, grumpy, or missleading in her emotions. She has no need to show people she's tough, and has no desire to treat others with any less then the respect she expects in return.

Discription
Thoria is short, even for a dwarf, and thin, though she's as health as any have know them to be. With her crafted armor, and wareaxe and sheild, she looks like close enough to a dwarf for those who do not know her to take her seriously. However, she often wears her armor in it's shifted form so that she appears unarmored, her blonde locks flowing from her head as if she had stolen it from the elves. 

Her shield has emblem of her family , a sleeping dwarf resting against a sleeping or dead deep drgon in a cave. THe cave's interior is vissible through a cut out of a mountain.

Her armor is Equisite in nature and her favorite piece. It's mithral fittings makes her smile when she sees it in a pools reflection or such.

Her cloak is a navy blue that highlights the blue tinge of the mithral metal.

Explorers Outfitname (worn, -wt)
+5 Glammered Mithral Full Plate of Heavy Fortification, and Universal Elemental Resistance (30) (worn, 25wt) 267000gp
+2 Mithral Large Shield of Reflection (worn, 5wt) 60720gp

Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (worn, -wt) 89600gp
Ring of the Sentinal +20AC (+5Sacred +5Luck +5Insight +5Deflection) (worn, -wt) 331250gp
Ring of Regeneration (worn, -wt) 90000gp
Cloak of Resistance +5 (Worn, 1wt) 25000gp
Boots of Teleportation (Worn, 3wt) 50000gp
Hairclip of Mental Perfection (+6Int +6Wis +6Chr) (worn, -wt) 180000gp
Belt of Physical Perfection (+6Str +6Dex +6Con) Worn, 1wt) 180000gp
Luskstone (Backpack, -wt) 20000gp
Handy Haversack (center back, 5wt) 2000gp

Waterskin- water (backpack, -wt) 1gp

(Read The full set of +5 Inherent books) 825,000gp
Coins- 440pp 104gp, (backpack, -wt)


----------



## Pyrex (Feb 19, 2004)

Interesting.  Adding another 16 stat points really didn't change the character as much as I was expecting.  Biggest change was the extra 20-odd skill points.  And I added the mount this time.

Edit:  Updated & reposted below.


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## Pyrex (Feb 19, 2004)

Why memorize cure spells?  You can cast them spontaneously.

The Amulet of NA +5 should only cost 50k.


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## Mithreander (Feb 19, 2004)

Reply, thanks for the amulet thing ( it was a combo item, until I took away the other power). 

As for the healing spells, well those are domain spells, and to be honest, they were better then the protection domain spells, that's why.


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 19, 2004)

Vladamir Taltos
Male Human Rogue LVL 30
Neutral Good

Str 22 +6 (3pts +5 Inherent Bonus +6 Enhancement)
Dex 34 +12 (10pt +7 Level +5 Inherant +6 Enhancement Bonus)
Con 24 +7 (5pts +5 Inherent +6 Enhancement)
Int 25 +7 (6pts +5 Inherent +6 Enhancement)
Wis 20 +5 (1pts +5 Inherant +6 Enhancement)
Cha 22 +6 (3pts +5 Inherent +6 Enhancement)

Hit Points 347 (100%(6)+75%((29x6)+(30x4)+(30x3)
AC 45 (10+12Dex+8Armor+5deflec+5insight+5Natural), Touch 32(10+12Dex+5deflec+5insight), Flat 45 (10+12Dex+8Armor+5deflec+5insight+5Natural) 
Init +20
BAB/Grapple +20,+15,+10
Speed 30
Fort +23, Ref +34, Will +21

+37,+32,+27 Melee Adamantine +5 Holy, Elemental aura Short Sword
+37,+32,+27 Melee Adamantine +5 Holy, Elemental aura Short Sword
-2 to attack if attack both weapons
Dmg= 1d6+11+2d6Holy+1d6 elemetal
+37,+37+32,+27 Ranged +5 Composite Shrtbow(+6) of Speed, Seeking, and distance
Dmg=1d6+11  



Medium, 5'11" tall, 185 wt, 32 yrs old
Black Hair, Hazel eyes,  Tanned skin

Speaks Common, Elven, dwarven 

Skills:
39 Climb (33)
40 Disable device (33)
75 Hide (33+30)
38 Listen (33)
75 Move silent (33+30)
45 Open Lock (33)
40 Search (33)
43 Spot (33+5)
47 Tumble (33)
39 Use magic device (33)
22 Gather Info (16)
23 Diplomacy (17)
28 Jump (20) 

Feats:
Combat Reflexes 13 Aoo
Dodge
Improved Init
weapon finesse
Two weapon Fighting
Improved Two weapon
Greater Two weapon
Quickdraw
Dextrous Fortitude
Sneak attack of opportunity
Superior Init
Epic Dodge
Epic Trap Sense
Dextrous Will


Human Traits
+1 Feat at 1st lvl(Dodge)
4+1 extra skill point per lvl

Rogue Abilities
Trap finding
Sneak attack 15d6
Improved Evasion
Trap Sense +7
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Opportunist
Slippery Mind
Defensive Roll

Specials:
D.Door 1/day 7th lvl
Fly 3/day 5 minutes each
Teleport 3/day 9th lvl
20% Miss chance Blur always on
Petrifying Gaze 10 rnds/day dc 19
Freedom of Movement
Non Detection
60' Dark Vision
SR 40





Background
Vlad as his friends call him has always excelled at the rogue arts highly succesfull highly skilled
At the station hes at now he acts for the good of the realm and no longer the good of himself.

Personality
Very outgoing and friendly, Quick with a joke and a smile.

Discription
Vlad sports a Black pony tail and thin mostache dressing relatively normal.

Explorers Outfitname (worn, -wt)
Adamantine +5 Holy, Elemental aura Short Sword 203,310
Adamantine +5 Holy, Elemental aura Short sword 203,310
+5 Composite(+6) Shortbow of Speed, Seeking, Distance 200,825
Quiver of Ehlona 1800
Bag of holding Type I 2500
140 adamantine arrows (30 in quiver 110 in bag) 427
140 Silver Arrows (30 in quiver 110 in bag) 21
Glove of Storing (Lft hand) 10,000
Staff of the Cosmos 25 Chgs (In glove) 683,487
Hewards Handy Haversack 2,000
Moon Bracers +8 (D.Door 1/day 7th lvl) 84160
Belt of Physical Prowess(Str,Dex,Con+6) 180,000
Heand Band of Perfect Presence (Int,Wis,Chr +6) 180,000
Ring of Stealthy Protection (Deflection+5, Freedom of Movement, Invis) 170,000
Cats Immortality Ring (Insight ac+5,Nine Lives 9 Chgs) 195,000
mantle of Stealthy Resistance(Epic Great Stealth,Spell Resist) 774,000
Mobility Boots (Winged boots, Boots Teleportation) 81,000
Amulet of Defense (Natural armor+5, Resistance +5) 100,000
Goggles of Stony darkness (goggles of night,Eagle,Petrification) 127,000
5 Scrolls True Ressurection 144,125 (hh)
Thieves Tools 30 (hh)
100' silk rope  20 (BOH)
10 vials Holy water 250 (HH)
Water skin 1gp (HH)
20 days rations 10 (BOH)


Paid 12,500 for Rarys telepathic bond



(Read The full set of +5 Inherent books) 825,000gp
Coins- 10,000pp 224gp, (BOH, -wt)
Gems- 69,000 various denominations


----------



## Velmont (Feb 19, 2004)

Sorry, but I think I will not join the game finally. I just don't hav ethe time to create a character. Those EPIC character are just too much time consumig to create, so I'll pass my turn. Ayway, I think there is enough game runnig for me, and it may be better that I don't join another one for a while.

Hope you'll enjoy that game.


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## Wrahn (Feb 20, 2004)

Sorry to see you go Velmont

Few more questions:

Courage Domain from the Comlete Warrior yea/nay?
Shield of the Archons, Quickshift, and Greater Status from the Book of Exalted Deeds?  yea/nay?
Greater Aspect of Deity and it's permutations, Recitation, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful from the Defenders of the Faith  yea/nay?

Nimbliness armor ability from Magic of Faerun?


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 20, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Sorry to see you go Velmont
> 
> Few more questions:
> 
> ...



Yes to all, but Righteous Wrath of the Faithful doesn't stack with any other attack-granting abilities (no spells or abilities in 3.5 do; that one doesn't have the text because it's 3.0).


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## Wrahn (Feb 20, 2004)

Waiting for Paxus's approval, Talariel is complete:

Name: Talariel
Race: Female Trumpet Archon (Outsider, Lawful, Good)
Class: ECL 8/Outsider 12/Cleric 6/Hierophant 3/Contemplative 1
Alignment: Lawful Good
Height: 5'4"
Weight: 110lbs
Eyes: Green
Hair: Green (Blond)
Complexion: Green (Pale)

Strength 	             *28* (13, +10 Race, +5 Inherent)
Dexterity 	*24* (10, +6 Race, +5 Inherent, +3 Enhancement)
Constitution 	*36* (13, +12 Race, +5 Inherent, +6 Enhancement)
Intelligence 	*22* (12, +6 Race, +4 Inherent)
Wisdom 	             *40* (14, +6 Race, +5 Level, +5 Inherent, +10 Enhancement)
Charisma 	*30* (14, +6 Race, +4 Inherent, +6 Enhancement)

Hit Points: *398* (12d8+7d8+1d6+2d8+286)

AC *60* (10, +9 Armor, +14 Natural, +5 Deflection, +5 Luck, +5 Sacred, +5 Dexterity, +7 Shield)

Attack: *31/26/21/16* (17 BAB, +9 Strength, +1 Weapon, +1 Epic, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Damage *2d6+1d6 Fire +1d6 Cold +1d6 Electrical, +1d6 Acid, +1d6 Sonic, +2d6 Holy, +1 Con damage +14* (+13 from Strength +1 from weapon)

-or-

Attack: *36/31/26/21* (17 BAB, +9 Strength, +6 Weapon, +1 Epic, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Damage: *2d6 +19* (+13 Stength, +6 Weapon)

Saves:

Fort *+49* (16 Base +13 Con, +5 Resistance, +10 Cha, +1 Epic, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Reflex *+37* (10 Base, +7 Dex, +5 Resistance, +10 Cha, +1 Epic, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Will *+51* (16 Base, +15 Wis, +5 Resistance, +10 Cha, +1 Epic, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)


Racial Abilities

—Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.
—Aura of Menace (Su): A righteous aura surrounds archons that fight or get angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an archon must succeed on a Will save DC 28. Those who fail take a –2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the archon that generated the aura. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the same archon’s aura for 24 hours.
—Immunity to electricity and petrification.
— +4 racial bonus on saves against poison.
—Magic Circle against Evil (Su): A magic circle against evil effect always surrounds an archon (caster level 22).
—Teleport (Su): Archons can use greater teleport at will, as the spell (caster level 14th), except that the creature can transport only itself and up to 50 pounds of objects.
—Tongues (Su): All archons can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level 14th). This ability is always active.
—Spell-Like Abilities: At will—detect evil, continual flame, message. Caster level 12th.
—Trumpet (Su): An archon’s trumpet produces music of utter clarity, piercing beauty, and, if the trumpet archon wills it, paralyzing awe. All creatures except archons within 100 feet of the blast must succeed on a DC 26 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds. The archon can also command its trumpet to become a +4 greatsword as a free action.
—Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish)
—A trumpet archon’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as good-aligned and lawful-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
—Spell Resistance: 39
—40ft Ground movement
—90ft Flight (good)
—+10 Str, +6 Dex, +12 Con, +6 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha
—+14 Natural Armor
—Damage Reduction 10/evil

Class Abilities:

Prestige Domain: Access to the Mysticism domain
Divine Health: Immune to all disease magical and otherwise
Divine Reach 2: A hierophant with this ability can use touch spells on targets up to 30 feet away. If the spell requires a melee touch attack, the hierophant must make a ranged touch attack instead. Divine reach can be selected a second time as a special ability, in which case the range increases to 60 feet.
Bonus Metamagic Feat: Quicken Spell
Domain Powers: 
Courage: all allies within 10ft (including self) gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws versus fear effects.
Good: Cast Good spells at +1 Caster Level
Mysticism: Charisma Bonus to saves

Feats:

Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Spell Capacity, Improved Spell Capacity, Improved Spell Capacity, Craft Wondrous Item, (Quicken Spell)

Skills:


Concentration 		*42* (25 Ranks, +13 Con, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Craft (Needlework)             *14* (4 ranks, +6 Int, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale) 
Diplomacy 		*41* (25 Ranks, +10 Cha, +2 Synergy, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Heal                                 *25* (6 Ranks, +15 Wis, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Hide 			*38* (15 Ranks, +7 Dex, +15 Competence, +1 Luck, +2 Morale, -2 Armor check)
Knowledge (Arcana) 	*26* (16 Ranks, +6 Int, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Knowledge (Religion) 	*34* (24 Ranks, +6 Int, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Knowledge (The Planes) 	*26* (16 Ranks +6 Int, +1 Luck. +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Listen 			*34* (15 Ranks +15Wis +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Move Silently 		*38* (15 Ranks +7 Dex, +15 Competence, +1 Luck, +2 Morale)
Perform (wind inst.) 	*29* (15 Ranks +10 Cha +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Perform (Singing) 	*29* (15 Ranks +10 Cha, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Sense Motive 		*44* (25 Ranks +15 Wis, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)
Spellcraft 		*37* (25 Ranks +6 Int, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Synergy, +2 Morale)
Spot 			*34* (15 Ranks, +15 Wis, +1 Luck, +1 Competence, +2 Morale)

Spells:
Base DC: *25* Caster Level: *27* Domains: Courage, Good, Mysticism
6/9+1/9+1/9+1/8+1/8+1/7+1/7+1/6+1/6+1/3+1/3+1/2+1

0. Detect Magic, Create Water, Mending, Guidance, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic
1. Bless, Santuary, Divine Favor, Doom, Command (x2), Eyes of the Avoral (BoED99), Ray of Hope (BoED105), Vision of Heaven (BoED111), +Protection from Evil
2. Calm Emotion, Lesser Restoration (x2), Silence, Augury, Elation (x2) (BoED98), Hold Person, Remove Paralysis, +Spiritual Weapon
3. Magic Vestment (x2), Daylight, Searing Light, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Speak with Dead. Remove Disease, Remove Curse, +Magic Circle against Evil
4. Recitation (x2)(DotF), Sending, Greater Magic Weapon (x2), Neutralize Poison, Sword of Conscience (BoED109), Blood of the Martyr (BoED92) +Holy Smite
5. Persistent Divine Favor, Extended Greater Status (BoED100), Flame Strike, Slay Living, Greater Command, Righteous Might, Dispel Evil, Plane Shift, +Valiant Fury(CW118)
6. Heal (x5), Banishment, Greater Dispel Magic, +Heroes Feast
7. Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (DotF), Holy Word, Repulsion, Destruction, Righteous Smite (BoE106)(x3), +Greater Heroism 
8. Persistent Freedom of Movement, Persistent Divine Power, Discern Location, Antimagic Field, Fire Storm, Spread Contentment (BoED107), +Lion's Roar (CW118) 
9. Persistent Righteous Might, Miracle, Extended Holy Aura, Mass Heal, True Resurrection, Gate, +Quickened Valiant Fury
10. Persistent Quickshift (BoED104), Quickened Heal (x2), +Extended Greater Aspect of Deity
11. Persistent Shield of the Archons (BoED107), Quickened Righteous Smite (x2), +Extended Greater Cloak of Bravery
12. Quickened Firestorm, Persistent Greater Spell Immunity, +Extended Quickened Greater Heroism 

Possessions:

82,500  +5 Book of Strength*
82,500  +5 Book of Dexterity*
82,500  +5 Book of Constitution*
66,000  +4 Book of Intelligence*
82,500  +5 Book of Wisdom*
66,000  +4 Book of Charisma*

1,000,000 Periapt of Epic Wisdom (+10 Enhancement to Wisdom)

37,500 Gold Dragon Scale Gauntlets:  Made from the cast off scales of Auriex, a Great Gold Wyrm.  They impart some of the luck of luck inherient to the gold dragons.  (+5 Luck Bonus to AC)*

21,600 	Belt of Health (+6 Enhancement Bonus to Constitution)*

39,600 	Circlet of Charisma and Disguise:  A silvery circlet with a small emerald in the center. (+6 Enhancement Bonus to Charisma, Disguise Self at will)

60,000 Cloak of Radiant Shielding:  When the wearer of this white and gold cloak is attacked a golden aura briefly surrounds the caster, attempting to deflect the attack. (+5 Deflection and +5 Resistance bonus to Saves)*

312,850 Baldraga’s Shifting Armor:  Baldraga was a powerful succubus, who wore this armor until she was slain by the group.  It’s form will shift on mental command from the wearer, from a beautiful gown to a murky silvered appearance that almost seems to blend into the background.  It is eerily silent when it moves. It almost seems like a liquid over the wearers body as it shifts to accommodate movement, leaving no weaknesses in the armor to exploit.  Additionally it augments the wearers appearance to such a degree that anyone who tries to attack them must make a save vs. a DC11 or be charmed as charm person if a human or animal and a DC17 versus or be charmed as Charm Monster if anything else.  Anyone who successfully attacks her gains a +4 to the save. (Glamered, Mithral Charming Full Plate Armor +1 of Heavy Fortification and Nimbleness, Greater Acid Resistance, Cold Resistance, Silent Moves and Shadowed)

101,170	Ghost Shield:  This translucent disc of metal, 2 feet in diameter given the command will float around it’s owner acting as a shield.  (Mithral Animated Large Shield +5 of Ghost Touch) 

203,000 Adamantine Holy, Screaming, Shocking, Frost, Flaming, Corrosive Great Sword +1 of Wounding

688,000 Trumpet:  This six foot long silvery trumpet allows the use of the Trumpet ability of the Trumpet Archon, but in someone else’s hands it is a useless lump of metal.  As a free action a trumpet archon can change it into a +6 Great Sword.

54,000 Glasses of True Sight:  These normal looking glasses let any who wear them see the world as it truly is.  (Continuous effect: True sight)*

75,000 Sacred Prayer Book:  A small book containing divine prayers for protection.  It‘s mere possession grants protection against physical attacks  (+5 Sacred Bonus to Armor Class) *

100,800 Boots of Void Grounding: These soft brown leather boots have soles which are of the deepest black.  As long as they are worn, negative energy effects are drawn out from the wearer through the soles and drain back to the negative material plane effectively death warding the wearer.  (Continuous Effect: Death Ward, caster level 7)*

30,000	Figure of Perfection: This 2inch tall figure appears as a more perfect version of the owner granting greater competence in most endeavors:  +1 Competence Bonus to attack rolls, skills, saves and ability checks

48,000	Figure of the Hero: This figure appears as the owner, but somehow greater, inspiring the owner to acts of heroism (Continuous effect: Heroism)

18,000 Figure of Grace:  A small Alabaster figure imparts a +3 Enhancement bonus to Dexterity to it's possessor

135,000 Bracers of Greater Magic: These bracers are made of a golden filigree, their abilities enhance the flow of magic, increasing the functional caster level for the wearer for the purposes of spell variables and caster checks.  They do not increase the spell capacity of a caster.  (+3 Caster Levels)

240,000 Ring of Fire Immunity
240,000 Ring of Sonic Immunity
288,250 10 Scrolls of Wish (used)
12,000	Luckstone*
25,000 	Donation for self and Lochlan for Rary's Telepathic Bond
2,000	Handy Haversack
1,000 Silversheen (x4)

100,000 Ingredients for True Resurrection (Diamond dust mixed with holy water) (x4)
1,600 Masterwork Composite Longbow (+12 Strength)
5 Arrows (x100)
5 Spell component Case
10 Silken Rope 100ft
10 Sunrods(x5)
25 Holy Symbol, Silver
1,000 Spyglass
100 Masterwork flute

2,475gp unspent

*Self Made

Appearance:  Publicly she appears as a tallish elf with long curly golden hair and a pale complexion via the disguise feature of her circlet.  As most elves, her face is unlined by age, she appears to be in her late teens or early twenties.  She is breathtakingly beautiful, but when wearing her armor she becomes “Beauty incarnate” as one of her admirers called her.  In her true form she looks much the same, her completion turns green and her hair takes on a darker green color.  Two great white feathered wings come from her back.

It is important to note she has a strong emotional effect on those around her.  She is supernaturally beautiful (Charming armor), Gives a sense of security and protection for those around her (Aura of courage and circle of protection from evil), Frightening those who are hostile to her (aura of menace).   When adventuring has the Greater Aura of Courage up which inspires her allies to such a degree that it makes them immune to fear and makes them attack better.

Personality:  Despite her power, Talariel is quite young, especially for the celestials.  She has a tendency to be fascinated by things others would consider mundane.  Her sometimes childlike glee about things makes her appear very young.  However, she is still a celestial and even among the celestials she is considered wise.  

She has a tendency to mother the rest of the party, tending to torn clothing, making sure they have places to stay, making sure they have brought enough food, managing the mundane necessities of the adventuring life.

She is also kind of a neat freak, meticulous about cleanliness and organization.  You all know well the clucking of her tongue when someone has left a mess in camp.


----------



## Wrahn (Feb 20, 2004)

A couple of things, on the skills I assumed the Ride skill listed on the Trumpet Archon's list was a typo and they actually meant Hide as it makes no sense they would have ride as a skill and do have move silently.

Secondly.  I am wondering about this:

Bracers of Greater Magic:  +4 Caster levels: 240,000

The price is based on the the Orange Prism which costs 30,000 and gives +1 caster level.  I halved the 30,000 for 15,000 because it doesn't take up an item slot and then took the +4 squared times 15,000.

This may be too powerful, so I thought I would run it past you first.

Of and one more thing, If I purchased several scrolls of wish and had one of our arcane types grant inherent bonuses to our impoverished paladin, would that break the spirit of the vow of poverty?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 20, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> A couple of things, on the skills I assumed the Ride skill listed on the Trumpet Archon's list was a typo and they actually meant Hide as it makes no sense they would have ride as a skill and do have move silently.
> 
> Secondly.  I am wondering about this:
> 
> ...




Hide skill is okay.  For the Bracers, anything above a +3 is an epic item (as it exceeds 200,000 gold in price), and as such costs 10 times as much, so 2.4 million.  If you purchase the scrolls with your own money, you can may do so; the Vow of Poverty allows the vower to accept one-time item use, and I'll extend that to allow one-time permanent items.  He, of course, cannot purchase any items for himself.


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## Pyrex (Feb 20, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Of and one more thing, If I purchased several scrolls of wish and had one of our arcane types grant inherent bonuses to our impoverished paladin, would that break the spirit of the vow of poverty?




Just how many were you thinking?  I think it may be straining the bounds of credibility for Lachlan to allow Talariel to spend hundreds of thousands of gp on his behalf.


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## Wrahn (Feb 20, 2004)

Well, somewhere less than 22. 

I will have some money left over, I am pretty much happy with where my character sits and I still have half a million gold to spend.  Depending on what is left, I am thinking somewhere around 10.

Speaking in character:

"Now don't be difficult," she clucks her tongue indicating, in fact, you are being difficult, "You rely on the forces of good to provide, I am a force of good and I am providing."


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## Jemal (Feb 23, 2004)

I've got a few questions to ask.. 

First, RE: 







> all but the most expensive secondary function on an item costs twice as much as normal.




So is that instead of the usual X1.5 from the DMG?  IE, if I made a Belt of Nat. Armour+5/Con+6, would it cost 104,000 (from DMG), or 122,000 (using X2 for secondary function)?

Second, anything over 200K is epic, and Epic items are X10 cost, correct?

So, does that mean that if I combine multiple abilities to one item and that takes it over 200K, would I ALSO multipy it by 10?  (that don't make sense to me, but wondering what u think.)  Or is that just for singular functions that would normally be over 200K?  I'm thinking it's the second one, b/c the Staff of Power has multiple powers and costs over 200K but isn't epic, 'technically'

I need to know both of the above before I can complete my equipment list, as they apply to a couple items i want.

A Ring that combines Wizardy 1_(20K)_, 2_(40K)_, 3_(70K)_, 4_(100K)_ + Energy Resistance(Greater) of all 5 energy types_(44K each)_

Ring of Fast Healing_(300K)_, Protection +5_(50K)_, and The Ram_(8.6K)_

A Robe combining Robe of Arch-magi_(75K)_ and Robe of Eyes_(120K)_

Helm combining Helm of Telepathy_(27K)_ and Hat of Disguise_(1.8K)_

Belt of Nat Armour+5_(50K)_ And Constitution+6_(36K)_

Gloves of Dexterity+6_(36K)_ and Storing_(10K each glove, so 20K)_

----------

OK, that's those out of the way, now for other stuff.
I also have a few items I'ld like that I 'made' using the DMG guidelines at the back, are they allright with you?

Medallion of Luck: 
+5 luck bonus to AC(62.5K - Bonus Squared X 2,500 for 'AC bonus, other')
+5 luck bonus to Saves(50K - Bonus Squared X 2,000 for 'save bonus, other')
+6 Wisdom(36K - as Periapt), 
Proof against Detection/Location(27K - As Amulet)

Total price - Depends on answers to above questions, anywhere from 232,000 (If non-epic and X1.5) to 2,885,000 (If Epic and X2)

Greater Winged Boots: 
Fly, use-activated/continuous (72K - Spell Lvl 3 X caster lvl 6 X 2,000 GP, X 2 for spell duration of Min/lvl)


ALso, you said in an earlier post that items we could create are purchased at 60% of market price... SO since I have the Craft Wondrous Item feat, does that mean any wondrous Item I buy that I could create, I only pay 60% for? (IE most of the above, etc)


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 23, 2004)

ok my character idea has changed i now have a Wiz10/LoreMaster20 I will post it tommorrow so it can be looked at.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 23, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I've got a few questions to ask..
> 
> First, RE:
> 
> ...




I keep forgetting that they changed that rule in 3.5; given what can be done with it at x2, I think I will keep it at double cost, rather than 1.5x cost.  An item is only epic if a single power would cost over 200,000, or requires an epic feat, skill, or caster level to create.  If you can cast every spell that would be a requirement for an item, then you can create it, and get the price break.  For luck bonuses, Wish or Miracle is the prerequisite.


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## Endur (Feb 23, 2004)

If you are looking for another player, I would be interested in playing a Dragon PC.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 23, 2004)

I believe that, with Velmont's withdrawal, we still have six players and Phoenix as the first alternate; that puts you second on the alternates list.


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## Jemal (Feb 23, 2004)

So are the Medalion of Luck and Greater Winged Boots OK?

Also, are you allowing us to do 'joint' item creation? (IE hire another spellcaster to cast a spell you can't so u can create an item)?  
IE hire a druid to cast Barkskin so I can create the Belt of Nat armour.

srry for all the questions, but the equipment's all I need to finish before my char will be ready for approval...
and I have to finish up background, but I'm working on the numbers now and will work on the flavour with the rest of the group once we figure out where each of the characters fits in.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 23, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> So are the Medalion of Luck and Greater Winged Boots OK?
> 
> Also, are you allowing us to do 'joint' item creation? (IE hire another spellcaster to cast a spell you can't so u can create an item)?
> IE hire a druid to cast Barkskin so I can create the Belt of Nat armour.
> ...




Both items are allowable, but the joint item creation is not.  You'll have to buy such an item at full price.


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## Jemal (Feb 23, 2004)

K, no prob was just wondering.  Will post up character first draft for everybody to peruse before I head to bed tonight.


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## Jemal (Feb 23, 2004)

Human Sorc 26/Archmage 4 (took 16 lvls sorc, then 4 Archmage, then 10 Sorc)

STR: 18 [+4]  (0 Points, +4 Inherent, +6 Magic)
DEX: 24 [+7]  (4 Points, +5 Inherent, +6 Magic, +1 LVL)
CON: 20 [+5]  (0 Points, +5 Inherent, +6 Magic, +1 LVL)
INT: 18 [+4]  (6 Points, +4 Inherent)
WIS: 20 [+5]  (2 Points, +4 Inherent, +6 Magic)
CHA: 38 [+14] (16 Points, +5 Inherent, +10 Magic, +5 LVL)

HP: 241 AC: 47
Saves: FORT: +26 REF: +28 WILL: +34
Init: +7

Bab: +10
Attacks: Ranged Touch(+21)

Skills(Total/Ranks): Bluff(+42/33), Concentration(+37/33), Knowledge:Arcana(+37/33), Spellcraft(+41/33), Spot(+30/16.5cc)
[cc=Cross Class]

Feats: Skill Focus:Spellcraft, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Craft Wondrous Item, Spell Focus:Transmutation, Spell Focus:Enchantment, Spell Focus:Evocation, Heighten Spell

Epic Feats: Improved Spell Capacity(X2), Spell Knowledge(Gate, Shapechange), Enhance Spell, Improved Metamagic(X2)

Class Abilities: Mastery of Shaping, Mastery of Elements, Spell Like AbilityX2(Not decided yet)

Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven (ALL With Tongues)

LVL (per day) - Spells Currently Known
Cantrips (6) - Detect magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Arcane Mark, Open/close, Mending, Message, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound(Will DC 25)
1st(16) - Magic Missile, Charm Person(Will DC 26), Identify, Grease(Reflex DC 25), Shield 
2nd(16) - Knock, Scorching Ray, Gust of Wind(Fort DC 27), Mirror Image, Fog Cloud
3rd(15) - Fireball(Ref DC 28), Lightning Bolt(Ref DC 28), Suggestion(Will DC 28), Daylight
4th(15) - Dimension Door, Greater Invis, Stoneshape, Charm Monster(Will DC 29)
5th (9) - Telekinesis(Will DC 30), Baleful Polymorph(Fort/Will DC 30), Cone of Cold(Ref DC 30), Major Creation
6th (9) - Disintegrate(Fort DC 31), Chain Lightning(Ref DC 31), Greater Dispel Magic
7th (8) - Greater Teleport, Greater Scrying(Will DC 31), Polymorph Any Object(Fort DC 32)
8th (8) - Horrid Wilting(Fort DC 32), Polar Ray, Maze
9th (8) - Gate, Shapechange, Meteor Swarm(Ref DC 34), Dominate Monster(Will DC 34), Prismatic Sphere(Various Saves, DC 33)
10th(3) - None
11th(2) - None

Equipment:
+5 Defending Staff of Divination - 145,300
Ring of Fast Healing/Protection+5/Ram(50 charges) - 417,200
Ring of Wizardry(1-4)/Greater Energy Resistance(All Elements) - 800,000
Cloak of Charisma +10 - 1,000,000
Vest of Defense(+5 Natural Armour/+5 Sacred/+5 Insight) - 288,000
*Belt of Physical Might (+6 Str, +6 Con) - 64,800
*Gloves of Dexterity+6/Storing - 45,600
*Helm of Telepathy/Disguise - 18,360
*Robe of Arch-Magi/Eyes(with the save bonus upgraded to +5) - 180,000
*Greater Winged Boots of Flying - 36,000
*Medalion of Luck(+5 Luck bonus to AC/Saves, +6 Wis, Nondetection) - 173,100
*Portable Hole - 12,000
*Cube of Force - 37,200
*Daerns Instant Fortress - 33,000
2 Rods of Absorption(Stored in Gloves) - 100,000

Ioun Stones: 
*Iridescent Spindle(Sustains without Air) - 10,800
*Dusty Rose PRism (Sustains without Food/Water) - 2,400
*3 Vibrant Purple Prism (stores 3 lvls of Spell each) - 64,800

Read Books: 
Tome of Understanding+4 - 110,000
Tome of Clear Thought+4 - 110,000
Tome of Leadership and Influence+5 - 137,500
Manual of Gainful Excercise+4 - 110,000
Manual of Quickness of Action+5 - 137,500
Manual of Bodily Health+5 - 137,500

Permanent spells: 
Invisibility on all Ioun Stones - 25,300
Tongues on Self - 7,650
Rary's Telepathic Bond With Party - 12,950

Nonmagical Equipment:
Jade Circlet - 1500
Spell Component Pouch(X2) - 10

81,530 GP left over

* = Self Made Items (60 % of market Price)


----------



## Pyrex (Feb 23, 2004)

Jemal, just out of random curiosity, why didn't you take Epic Spellcasting?


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## Wrahn (Feb 23, 2004)

A few things to note:

I took the trumpet which all trumpet archon's get for free and changes the +4 Greatsword to a +6 Great Sword (for 720,000 - 32,000, or a mere 688,000)

I followed the Hero hound archon and the changes they made for the changes I made in my character (I raised my spell resistence by my class levels)

Charming is a goofy armor ability out of defends of the faith


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## Wrahn (Feb 23, 2004)

Jemal,

Just scanning over your character I noticed that I think you BAB is 10 and not 9 (8 for 16 levels of sorceror and 2 from 4 levels of Archmage)

Also you need 4 metamagic feats to qualify for Improved Metamagic Epic Feat.

Oh and you get 7 stat increases for being 30th level, I only saw 6 on your character.

And I am getting 241 hp (1d4 at full (4) + 29d4 at 75% (87) + 30 instances of your +5 con bonus (150) = 4+87+150 = 241)


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## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 23, 2004)

Wow, I'm really impressed with all the characters I've seen so far...  

I'm even more impressed that my 20th level character from PA other epic game has the highest natural charisma of the two parties...   (Natural as in what functions with in an anti-magic field.)

Then again I doubt anyone was trying to beat it so it probably doesn't even matter.   Besides I think you all hit the warrior/adventuring aspect better than I did as I've had little luck in being productive in the middle of a fight.


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## Wrahn (Feb 23, 2004)

BS,

You were a Heartwarder if I recall correctly.  That class screams sorceror to me.  Considering they get bonuses to Charisma and don't specify their +1 caster level per level needs to be in a divine casting class.

But in anycase, if you enjoy your character, I wouldn't worry too much about how effective you are.  Fun is far more important than how effective your character is.


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## Jemal (Feb 24, 2004)

Pyrex - I WAS going to take epic spellcasting, but changed my character concept to metamagic mage instead.

Whran - Thanx for pointing out the HP problem (I was going off an old copy that had him at 18 con), and the BAB prob.  

And I do have 4 metamagic feats: Heighten, Empower, Maximize, and Enhance.

also thnx for noticing the stat-point thing, that'll make a few diferences.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 24, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> You were a Heartwarder if I recall correctly.  That class screams sorceror to me.  Considering they get bonuses to Charisma and don't specify their +1 caster level per level needs to be in a divine casting class.




Yeah she is indeed a heartwarder but I wanted one more special connected to Sune so she's a Paladin/Favored Soul combination.  (Favored soul is the divine like sorcerer that is in WotC miniature handbook)  Though looking at the group a sorcerer would probably have been smarter as my DC on my spells is insanely low.  I need to level and remove most of my non party spells as I can’t hurt nothing with a spell and I’ve suffered from to many heartwarder levels to be effective in combat. 



			
				Wrahn said:
			
		

> But in anycase, if you enjoy your character, I wouldn't worry too much about how effective you are.  Fun is far more important than how effective your character is.



I agree that fun is the most important thing but I wonder if I'm infringing on the fun that the others are suppose to be having.


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## Wrahn (Feb 24, 2004)

So what we have so far is

Mithreander as Thoria Deepdelver a Cleric of Moradin and a Dwarven Defender
Pyrex as Lochlan Ascetic Paladin
Wynter Wolf as Vlad Taltos, Rogue
Wrahn as Talariel Trumpet Archon and Cleric of Good and Courage
Jemal as X the Sorcerer
Wippit Guud as X2 (Presumably a paladin)


We have the possible addition of Phoenix, with the Velmont leaving the game.

Wippit, any idea of when you will post your character?

Does anyone have contact with Phoenix to let him know he is in, or are we happy with 6.

Here is my idea for the start of the group: Lochlan, Vlad and X are friends and adventuring companions.  They start working themselves up from first level.  Along the way they rescue a young trumpet archon from an Evil Wizard™ who then accompanies them.  They answer a call for adventures by a clan of dwarves who have “dug too deep” and awakened something.  There they meet a cleric of Moradin turned dwarven defender who aids them as they turn back the tide and save the clan.  Thoria chooses to join them with her clan safe.  A rough timeline of events:

-8 years from present:  Lochlan, Vlad and X investigate the “Mysterious Death of the Mayor” their first adventure

Following a clue uncovered in the previous adventure, our young heroes run into trouble on “The Road to Dyrah Marsh.”

Finally arriving at the Marsh, they have to save a village from “The Marsh Dragon”

Finally able to follow their clue, leads them into the heart of the marsh and “The Tomb of the Shadow King.”

-7 Years from present:

Hailed as heroes, the Heroes return home only to find themselves entangled in an odd set of politics in “Strange Entanglements”

Finding themselves no longer welcome in their home, our heroes set off for the big city in “Rounding the Feldin Mountains” and finding trouble with bandits and dryads.

Arriving in “Chaviest, the City of Rivers” they find themselves taken advantage of by a local con artist.

Finding something unsavory in the sewers, the heroes learn “There is Something Rotten in the State of Undeath.”

Pirates run rampant along the Barren Sea, our heroes are hired to safe guard an important shipment, which turns out to be Princess Laidri, youngest daughter of the King of Alendor.  Things get complicated in “The Shipment, Part 1”

Being stranded on a desert island is bad enough, but when you have to share it with a spoiled princess, things become hairy, mix in cannibals and an angry volcano and things get down right messy in “The Shipment, Part 2”

Paid well for their efforts, our Heroes go on a “Spending Spree” and find that some deals are too good to be true.

Our heroes stumble onto something sinister in “A Hint of Darkness”

-6 years from present

Fighting a cabal of evil wizards is more than our heroes had bargained for in “The Tip of the Iceberg.”  Talariel joins the cast.

Our heroes join an expedition to the Errisian Jungles in “A Blade for all Seasons”

Fleeing for their lives through the Jungles, our heroes learn it is better to “Let Sleeping Giants Lie.”

Returning to Chaviest aboard a captured slaver ship, our heroes find this is no “Pleasure Cruise.”

-5 years from present:

Our heroes avert a civil war in “Sow What You Reap.”

The return of the Syndle Spire outside of Chaviest, inspire our heroes to learn not to mess with Wizard’s experiments gone wrong in “The Slow Parade of Years.”

Answering a call for help from the Deepdelver clan, our heroes find themselves embroiled in a war of attrition with the “Armies of the Deep.”  Thoria Deepdelver joins the cast

Our heroes set out with a strike force of dwarves to try and cut the head from the serpent in “Into the Dark, Part 1.”

Finding things not exactly as they expected, our heroes proceed “Into the Dark, Part 2.”

Things go from bad to worse crossing an underground river in “Into the Dark, Part 3.”

Finding the head of the serpent to be the Shadow Dragon Threx’niar, in “Into the Dark, Conclusion.”



I will guess that would put us around 16th level.  If anyone else has any suggestions, throw them out.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 24, 2004)

You have a lot of Dungeon back issues, don't you?

That looks like a decent timeline, though it seems a trifle short; if it took eight years to hit epic, you wouldn't be quite so unique.


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## Wrahn (Feb 24, 2004)

Actually that was all off the top of my head, just sort of adlibing adventure names and ideas.  The timeline is actually based on Lochlan's age of 24, going back 8 years puts him at 16.  I thought any younger might be a stretch.

If anyone else have ideas for our history?  Do people want to change ages ( Thoria is 56, Lochlan is 24 and Vlad is 28.  Talariel is described as being young, for a Celestial.  That could mean 1 to 1000 for all I know).


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 24, 2004)

Most of you _do_ seem rather young to be 30th level, now that I look at your ages.  I'd suggest edging yourselves closer to middle age, just for realism; casters might even be old enough to start getting aging bonuses and penalties.

I'm impressed that you made that list off the top of your head.  Have you run any adventures like those, or are they entirely original?  I may need to steal some.


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## Wrahn (Feb 24, 2004)

I actually don't run as often as I used to, so no I haven't ran any of those.  Mostly they are just hints of ideas, you are welcome to use any of them if they inspire to put flesh on them.

Because I envision starting my character off pre epic with the group, she would have to be a not fully developed member of her species.  So I would imagine that she isn't very old for a celestial.  But like I said before, young for a celestial could be 1 to 1000, Even if we had been adventuring together for 100 years I imagine she would still be young.  Consquently, I am flexible as far as age goes.


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## Jemal (Feb 24, 2004)

I think age depends entirely on how much downtime we spent between adventures.  A party usually lvls every adventure (in my _experience_.. pardon the pun), so that's 30 adventures... how many adventures are we assuming per year, on average?

if 1, that's 30 years to get this far... wheras something more realistic, say 3 or 4 adventures per year, would take 7-10 years.

Personally I don't want to be over 30 b/c I just don't like playing old guys (And yes, being 21, 30 does seem 'old' to me) unless I'm a wizard, Monk, or some race that doesn't really care about age. (vampire, elf, dwarf..)

EDIT: 
having said that, however, I will note that if you DO want us to be older, then my character will be looking for a way to become immortal.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 24, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I think age depends entirely on how much downtime we spent between adventures.  A party usually lvls every adventure (in my _experience_.. pardon the pun), so that's 30 adventures... how many adventures are we assuming per year, on average?
> 
> if 1, that's 30 years to get this far... wheras something more realistic, say 3 or 4 adventures per year, would take 7-10 years.
> 
> ...




In my experience, a party is likely to level twice every three adventures or so; likely down-time between adventures starts at a week or two between, but escalates as levels increase.  Goblins are easy to find, chichimecs or tanar'ri invasion forces less so.  I'd like you to be between 10% or so of middle age, in either direction; for a human, that's between 30 and 40.


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## Pyrex (Feb 24, 2004)

Sounds reasonable.  Early 30's is about what I was aiming for anyway.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 24, 2004)

_runs in from my game..._



			
				Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I'd like you to be between 10% or so of middle age, in either direction; for a human, that's between 30 and 40.




_Starts to hand out Arthritis Strength Bufferin_ 

Two for you… and two for you… 

_Runs back out..._


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## Jemal (Feb 24, 2004)

allright, but you've been warned... like all powerful and old mages, I want Imortality and will be searching for a way to gain it... I've already to some extent discovered a way to prolong my life through use of Shapechange(spend 5-10 hrs/day as another creature and YOUR body might not age as fast) and traveling to other planes with slower time.  (IE 1 year there is 10 years here.. see manual of Planes).

(BTW, I figured out something... a human sorc/wiz could use Polymorph Any Object to permanently polymorph themselves into another humanoid of same or smaller size and it would be permanent... damn, wish I'ld thought of that before.  )


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 25, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> allright, but you've been warned... like all powerful and old mages, I want Imortality and will be searching for a way to gain it... I've already to some extent discovered a way to prolong my life through use of Shapechange(spend 5-10 hrs/day as another creature and YOUR body might not age as fast) and traveling to other planes with slower time.  (IE 1 year there is 10 years here.. see manual of Planes).
> 
> (BTW, I figured out something... a human sorc/wiz could use Polymorph Any Object to permanently polymorph themselves into another humanoid of same or smaller size and it would be permanent... damn, wish I'ld thought of that before.  )




The shapechanging won't work; regardless of official rules, I maintain that aging still happens to you at your normal pace, regardless of what form you've magically assumed.  Neither Shapechange nor Polymorph have a duration of Instantaneous; permanent still means it's a continuing magical effect.  Very few planes have slower time than the Prime; a few of the fey realms do, but many of those have their own nasty drawbacks.

Note that I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing immortality; far from it.  I just want you to work for it.  There's always Extend Lifespan, if you get desperate.


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## Jemal (Feb 25, 2004)

Lich-dom it is, then I guess.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 25, 2004)

There are other alternatives; worms that walk, some of the BoVD spells that let you steal youth, the Fortify seed of epic spells, etc.


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

There is the Deathless type which are like undead but not evil from the BoED.  There is a spell from Relics and Rituals 2 that halts the aging process and one that reverses it.  There is a ritual in Relics in Rituals which makes you immortal as well.  I understand that the direct servants of dieties are sometimes made immortal.  I remember somewhere there is a spell which transfers your consciousness to a construct but don't remember where.  There are rituals described in Savage Species that can transform you into something else.  Reincarnation can change you into a fey, whom I believe are immortal.

Becoming a lich may raise the ire of your compatriots (whose alignments I believe are LG, LG, LG and NG).


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 25, 2004)

I'm not going to use the Deathless type from BoED, any more than I use ravages or afflictions; it's WotC trying to dodge the moral absolutes it sets, rather than anything meaningful or consistent.  Monsters of Faerun includes information on good lichs, if you want to go the dead man route.


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## Jemal (Feb 25, 2004)

> Becoming a lich may raise the ire of your compatriots (whose alignments I believe are LG, LG, LG and NG).




Yes, that could be... interresting.. *L*

anyways, i'll figure something out.


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## Pyrex (Feb 25, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> ...Very few planes have slower time than the Prime...




In addition to slow-time planes, there are also timeless planes (like the astral) where you could live.


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## Jemal (Feb 25, 2004)

The problem with Timelsess planes, though, is that when you leave them you instantly age the amount of time you spent in there.  
IE, if i spent say 1000 years in the Astral plane then came to the material plane I'ld be a pile of dust.


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

I think we should set a deadline when you are ready Paxus.  I understand the difficulties of building an epic level character, but I don't think we can wait endlessly for people to finish theirs.  I have seen one epic game die because one person couldn't make their character.

I think right now we have enough of a group to cover the basics, if push comes to shove I would vote that if we don't get anyone else to respond we push forward with what we have and let the others catch up if they miss the deadline.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 25, 2004)

I'll be too busy until Sunday to start, so I'll set the time by which everyone should be finished to midnight Saturday, Pacific time.


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

Sounds good.  I am done with the mechanics of my character.  All that is left is the history, which I am attempting to tie us all together.

Pyrex, I have 10 scrolls of wish with your name on them assuming we can get Jemal or Wynter Wolf to cast them on you.


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## Pyrex (Feb 25, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> The problem with Timelsess planes, though, is that when you leave them you instantly age the amount of time you spent in there.
> IE, if i spent say 1000 years in the Astral plane then came to the material plane I'ld be a pile of dust.




Then don't leave.  Just use _Astral Projection_ any time you need to visit another plane.


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

When you cast Astral Projection you are transported to the astral plane, I don't think Astral Projection works in Astral Space.

On the other hand you could buy a scroll of Genesis and create your own plane, which you control the conditions of.  (I believe that mean you can make it timeless as well.) And Astrally project from there and make your way to another Prime and get a new body.  It of course would leave you vulnerable to anti and counter magics, but such is the price of immortality.


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## Pyrex (Feb 25, 2004)

The SRD said:
			
		

> (from the text of Astral Projection)
> Since the Astral Plane touches upon other planes, you can travel astrally to any of these other planes as you will. To enter one, you leave the Astral Plane, forming a new physical body (and equipment) on the plane of existence you have chosen to enter.




I've got my character updated (again, with the results of the wish scrolls, under the assumption that they took effect during level 20) and will repost.

Speaking of which, do we have a RG thread yet?


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## Wynter Wolf (Feb 25, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Sounds good.  I am done with the mechanics of my character.  All that is left is the history, which I am attempting to tie us all together.
> 
> Pyrex, I have 10 scrolls of wish with your name on them assuming we can get Jemal or Wynter Wolf to cast them on you.




I kept my rogue idea but i believe i can still use the scrolls with no difficulty with my use magic device


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

I knew that you formed a new body, my only point was that if you were on the astral plane to prevent aging, you could not cast a spell that takes you to the astral plane.  I am not sure that the suspended animation that your body is placed in when you cast the spell prevents aging.


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

Not really putting a time to these, but here is a list of higher level adventures:

Our heroes find the rumor of war is more than just saber rattling in “Shattered Illusions”

The Veng Empire and the Kingdom of Alendor are at full-fledged war as our heroes find secret societies and demons to be the cause in “Rotten to the Core”

Trying to bring the instigators of the war to justice and recover proof that will end the war, our heroes pursue the demoness and her minions in a running fight across the armadas of the Veng Empire and the Kingdom of Alendor at “The Battle of Bristia.”

The Heroes of the Battle of Bristia find themselves trapped in the very painting the poised for in “Everyone’s a Critic.”

The heroes arrive too late to save the entire royal family in “Consequences of Failure.”

Princess Laidri, the last member of the royal house of Alendor is crowned queen, just in time for the heroes to save her from more of the mysterious assassins in “The Coronation.”

Charged by the Queen to find the source of the assassinations, the heroes track down the location of the Iron Fortress of the Brotherhood of the Blackhand in “No Stone Unturned.”

The “Battle of the Iron Fortress” ensues, shattering the Brotherhood, but Jerak, their mad prophet escapes.  Proof is discovered that there have been assassin’s sent to the Veng Empire and Ebu Dar.

The party splits, half go to the Celestial Palace to save the Veng Emperor, the others go to Ebu Dar to save the prelate in “Fleeting Hope.”

Reuniting after a long rest the heroes reunite at the Queen Laidri’s marriage to Lord Westros of Evenwood.  Rumor’s fly about Vladamir’s alleged romance with the queen and when Vladamir is discovered in the Queen’s bedchambers, duels and assassination attempts follow in “Love’s Arrow”

A group of adventurers uncover the Great Seal of Gaurthmal and open it, unleashing a plague of undead upon the world.  Our heroes find that some seals are harder to close than to open in “Cork the Whirlwind.”

Trapped behind the Seal, our heroes must discover the source of the undead legions and destroy it or be trapped forever in “Secrets, Dead and Buried.”

A Djinn lord invites the party to tea and makes them an offer they really hope they can refuse in “Simple Pleasures.”

The mad prophet Jerak returns with demonic allies intent on “Bloody Revenge.”


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## Jemal (Feb 25, 2004)

There are a lot of options for Immortality, I'll keep an open eye+mind.  It's something I'ld like to eventually pursue in game, but until then I'll be content with what I do have.

Moving to other things, I just had a thought.. the 'inherent' bonuses from the books, I didnt' take those into account for Skill points, should I assume (As others are doing) that I gained those 4 points of Int at lvl 20, and gain the additional 20 skill points?

Also, I've had a bit of a change to my planning for my character and am Updating him.  Instead of editing the old one I'll just post him again so people don't have to go searching 2 pages back for him.


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

The rules are a lot more clear in 3.5 about what you get extra skill points for and they say specifically that inherent bonuses grant skill point bonuses on your next level (not retroactive).  Since my book was self made and I could not make it until my 23rd level, I took the extra skill points from 24th level on.


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## Pyrex (Feb 25, 2004)

Speaking of which...  (once we have an RG thread I'll move my character over there)

Should be pretty much done this time. 

Edit:  Moved to RG.


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## Wrahn (Feb 25, 2004)

Paxus,

Something just came to my attention, I took the persisent spell feat which has been used in my home group to mean any spell that has personal for effect or had a set range.  I noticed in your other game that Serpent Eye had a persistent Death Ward memorized which has a target of living creature touched and you mentioned that Shield of Faith was a must for someone who took persistent spell. (which also has a similar target).  Is your interpretation of the spell that any spell that sole targets you is valid for Persistent Spell?

Also Divine Power states that your BAB becomes equal to your character level and they list no cap to that.  My interpretation on the matter is that it would give me a BAB of 20 and +5 Epic Bonus, (As if I were a 30th level fighter) is this correct?


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## Jemal (Feb 26, 2004)

Whran, actually I believe that Divine Power has been errata'd to 'your base attack bonus becomes equal to that of a fighter of your level' or some such thing, and if it hasn't then it should.

As for Inherent bonuses, I could make my Int book at lvl 18, so I'll assume from then, and that's 24 skill points total.  Woot, I CAN take some Craft skills after all(for Major Creation.. we'll never have to worry about creatures with Adamantine/Silver/Mithril damage reduction)
Which reminds me... The material component for Major Creation is 'a tiny bit of the substance to be created', so how much would it cost for tiny bits of Adamantine, Alchemical Silver, & Mithril?  I can get gold, silver, etc easily enough. just carry some coins around.


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## Jemal (Feb 26, 2004)

EDIT: double post so I'll use this one to ask another couple questions I just thought of:

OK, I've got a +5 staff of Defending, two questions about it.. 

1) Do I have to use the ATTACK action to gain the+5 AC from it?  The description just says at the begining of each round (Assuming I have it in hand) I choose how to allocate the Magic bonus.. to defense or offense.

2) Can I make both ends +5 and Defending to stack their bonuses to AC?

If yes to the first one, I'll keep the staff as is(If no i'll sell it).  If yes to the second one, I'll buy the other end as +5 Defending, too.

I also have a question about my Familiar:
  If I cast Tongues on him, can he then speak and understand any language, and be understood by people other than me?  If no, what if he's a raven(Which can allready 'speak').


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 26, 2004)

Wrahn, you are correct that the spell grants a BAB equal to that of a fighter of your level; the compiled and updated Epic Insights on wizards.com includes that in a list of epic modifications to spells, adding caps to a number of otherwise unlimited spells and altering instant-death spells to a balanced, but still quite potent, number of damage dice.

As far as the Persistent Spell feat, I hadn't noticed that those weren't personal only; I'll tentatively allow any touch-target spell cast on yourself to be persistent, but (as always) reserve the right to strike down anything that seems broken.


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## Jemal (Feb 26, 2004)

Paxus : pls check my post right before yours.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 26, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> EDIT: double post so I'll use this one to ask another couple questions I just thought of:
> 
> OK, I've got a +5 staff of Defending, two questions about it..
> 
> ...




It says nothing about requiring an action, and explicitly states that it stacks with all other bonuses, so you require not action, and may have both ends be defending.

The wording of Tongues is really quite bizarre, but it doesn't require that the creature in question be able to speak.  It would allow your familiar to speak and understand any language, as normal, assuming that it has sufficient intelligence to converse.


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## Jemal (Feb 26, 2004)

Woot!  my AC just went up to 57! (61 with Shield on).

And as to the familiar being intelligent enough... a 30th lvl sorc's familiar has an int of 20... My familiar's gonna be smarter than me!

I've also been wondering about an Improved Familiar, but none of the creatures on the list appeal to me.. I was wondering if you'ld allow me to have any of the following as a familiar (with the Improved Familiar feat, if necesary): 
Nixie, Wolf, Cheetah, or Leopard (In that order of preference).

If no I'll have to decide between Weasel and Raven...


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 26, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Woot!  my AC just went up to 57! (61 with Shield on).
> 
> And as to the familiar being intelligent enough... a 30th lvl sorc's familiar has an int of 20... My familiar's gonna be smarter than me!
> 
> ...




Nixie is out; wolf would be just fine.


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## Jemal (Feb 26, 2004)

K, would I need Improved Familiar for a wolf, or not?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 26, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> K, would I need Improved Familiar for a wolf, or not?




Yes.  It's rather a step up from mice and toads, though the required caster level would only be 5.


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## Jemal (Feb 26, 2004)

Do familiars live longer than other animals of their race?  B/c most animals don't live too long, and my character will have been adventuring for about 20 years.. I was thinking my familiar and I have been together for a long time..


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 26, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Do familiars live longer than other animals of their race?  B/c Wolves live max 16 years, and my character will have been adventuring for about 20.. I was thinking my familiar and I have been together for a long time..




Given the consequences of familiar death, my assumption is that a familiar is the same age category as its master, including any magical alterations.  You are closely enough linked that your longevities are one and the same.


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## Jemal (Feb 26, 2004)

K...
GARGH, I just realized I don't have any feats I can drop for Improved Familiar, so I'm gonna have to go with Weasel or Raven... I'll figure it out, srry for so many questions, and changing ideas so often.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I'll figure it out, srry for so many questions, and changing ideas so often.



Trust me he's seen worse... :angelic look:


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## Jemal (Feb 27, 2004)

You, Bro?  Impossible! *L*

Anyways, I've done a bunch of changes to my char and here's the new and improved Uber-mage.

I've also come up with some of those background adventure ideas, I'll post'em up soon.


Kel Vorath
Sorc 26/Archmage 4 (took 16 lvls sorc, then 4 Archmage, then 10 Sorc)
38 y/o male Human

STR: 07 [-2]  (0 Points, -1 Age, )
DEX: 20 [+5]  (2 Points, -1 Age, +5 Inherent, +6 Enhancement)
CON: 20 [+5]  (2 Points, -1 Age, +5 Inherent, +6 Enhancement)
INT: 20 [+5]  (6 Points, +1 Age, +5 Inherent)
WIS: 22 [+6]  (2 Points, +1 Age, +5 Inherent, +6 Enhancement)
CHA: 39 [+14] (16 Points, +1 Age, +5 Inherent, +8 Enhancement, +7 LVL)
(CHA 51 [+20] with Unearthly Grace)

*HP:* 241 (30d4+150)
*AC:* 55 (Touch 45, Flat-footed 50)
(10 base +5 Dex +5 Armour +5 Nat Armour +5 Insight +5 Sacred +5 Luck +5 Deflection +10 Staff)

*Saves: *
FORT: +21 (Base 6 +5 Dex +5 Epic + 5 Resistance)
REF: +21 (Base 6 +5 Con +5 Epic + 5 Resistance)
WILL: +30 (Base 14 +6 Wis +5 Epic + 5 Resistance)
*Init:* +6

Bab: +10
Attacks: Ranged Touch(+20=+10 BaB, +5 Epic, +5 Dex)

*Skills: *
Bluff +53 = 33 ranks +20 Cha
Concentration +38 = 33 ranks +5 Con
Knowledge:Arcana +38 = 33 ranks +5 Int
Spellcraft +75 = 33 ranks +20 Cha + 15 Magic +3 Skill Focus +4 Synergy
Spot +34 = 16 Cross Class ranks +6 Wis + 10 Magic +2 Alertness
Craft:Stoneworking +22 = 18 ranks +4 Int
Craft:Something +22 = 18 ranks +4 Int

*Feats:* Skill Focus:Spellcraft, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Widen Spell, Heighten Spell, Craft Wondrous Item, Spell Focus:Transmutation, Spell Focus:Evocation

*Epic Feats:* Improved Spell Capacity, Spell Knowledge(Gate, Shapechange), Enhance Spell, Improved Metamagic(X2), Epic Spellcasting

*SPECIAL QUALITIES:* 
Unearthly Grace cast Every morning
Mastery of Shaping (6th lvl Spell slot)
Mastery of Elements (8th lvl Spell slot)
Spell Power (5th lvl Spell slot)
Spell Power (5th lvl Spell slot)
Caster Level: 33
Check to overcome SR: +35
SR 40
Detect Thoughts at Will
Immune to Detect Thoughts
Telepathic Bond with Party
Fly (60') at will
See Invisibility
120' Darkvision
No need for Air/Water/Food

*Languages:* Common, Draconic, Elven (ALL With Tongues)

*SPELLS:* 
LVL (per day) - Spells Currently Known
Cantrips(6) - Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Arcane Mark, Open/close, Mending, Dancing Lights, Message, Ghost Sound(Will DC 30), Read Magic
1st(10) - Magic Missile, Alarm, Identify, Grease(Reflex DC 31), Shield 
2nd(10) - Knock, Scorching Ray, Gust of Wind(Fort DC 33), Mirror Image, Locate Object
3rd(15) - Fireball(Ref DC 34), Lightning Bolt(Ref DC 34), Suggestion(Will DC 33), Daylight
4th(15) - Dimension Door, Greater Invis, Stoneshape, Charm Monster(Will DC 34)
5th (7) - Telekinesis(Will DC 36), Baleful Polymorph(Fort/Will DC 36), Cone of Cold(Ref DC 36), Major Creation
6th (8) - Disintegrate(Fort DC 37), Chain Lightning(Ref DC 37), Greater Dispel Magic
7th (8) - Greater Scrying(Will DC 37), Polymorph Any Object(Fort DC 38), Kels Magnificent Mansion
8th (7) - Horrid Wilting(Fort DC 38), Polar Ray, Maze
9th (8) - Gate, Shapechange, Meteor Swarm(Ref DC 40), Dominate Monster(Will DC 39), Prismatic Sphere(Various Saves, DC 39)
10th(3) - Metamagic Spells
Epic(2) - Unearthly Grace, Hadoken


*Equipment:*
Staff of Might - 344,625
<Both ends of this Staff are +5 Defending, and has the following spells(50 charges):>
[Wall of Force CL20, Wall of Iron CL20, Wall of Stone CL20, Quickened True Strike CL9]
Ring of Protection <Protection+5/Mind Shielding/Major Energy Resist(All)> - 346,000
Ring of Power <Wizardry(3,4)/Ram(50 Charges)> - 257,200
Cloak of SR 40 - 280,000
Bracers of Defense<+5 Natural Armour/+5 Sacred/+5 Insight> - 287,500
*Belt of Health (+6 Con) - 21,600
*Gloves of Dex+6/Storing - 45,600
*Helm of Telepathy/Wis+6/Disguise - 56,160
*Robe of Arch-Magi/Eyes(with the save bonus upgraded to +5) - 180,000
*Greater Winged Boots of Flying - 36,000
*Medalion of Skill and Luck<+5 Luck bonus to AC, +15 Spellcraft> - 64,500
*Decanter of Endless Water - 5,400
*Greater Horn of Blasting - 42,000
*Iron Bands of Bilarro - 15,600
*Bag of Holding IV - 6,000
*Portable Hole - 12,000
*Cube of Force - 37,200
Rod of Security(Stored in Glove) - 61,000
Rod of Absorption(Stored in Glove) - 50,000
Rod of Epic Splendor +8 - 297,400
Wand of Maximized Magic Missiles(50) - 27,000

Ioun Stones: 
*Iridescent Spindle <Sustains without Air> - 10,800
*Dusty Rose Prism <Sustains without Food/Water> - 2,400
*Orange Prism <+1 Caster Level> - 18,000

Read Books: 
*Tome of Understanding+5 - 82,500
*Tome of Clear Thought+5 - 82,500
*Tome of Leadership and Influence+5 - 82,500
*Manual of Quickness of Action+5 - 82,500
*Manual of Bodily Health+5 - 82,500

Permanent spells:
Invisibility on all Ioun Stones - 15,180
Rary's Telepathic Bond With Party - 450
Tongues on Self - 7,650
Arcane Sight - 7,650

Nonmagical Equipment:
Jade Circlet - 1500
Spell Component Pouch(X2) - 10

65,775 GP left over

* = Self Made Items (60 % of market Price)

*FAMILIAR:* (100GP)
Nevmor - Tiny Animal (Raven)
HD: 30D8  HP: 120  Spd: fly 40 Ft
Ac: 14  
Special Qualities: Low-light Vision, Improved Evasion, Alertness, Share spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Birds, SR 35, Speak Common, Tongues, Familiar Spell()
Saves: Fort+11, Ref+13, W ill+21
Abilitis: Str 1, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 20, Wis 14, Cha 6
Skills: Listen+3 Spot+18


*EPIC SPELLS: *

_UNEARTHLY GRACE_
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 35  Components: V, S  Casting Time: 11 minutes
Range: Personal  Duration: 20 Hours
Saving Throw: None  Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: SEED: Fortify(DC19)
Factors: Increase bonus by +19 (+38DC), Change from Target to Personal(-2DC), 
Mitigating Factors: +10 Minute Casting Time(-20 DC)
COST: 378,000 GP

This spell imbues the caster with God-like beauty and force of personality, granting him a 
+20 Enhancement Bonus to Charisma.
(Affects only Skills and DC's, for which it replaces the +8 enhancement from the Rod)

_HADOKEN_
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 84  Components: V, S  Casting Time: 1 round
Range: 300'  Effect: 20' Radius  Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fort DC 41  Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: SEED: Destroy(DC29)
Factors: Add +20d6 damage(+40DC), Decrease casting time 9 rounds(+18), 
Change Target to Area(+10DC), Change Area to 20' Radius(+2DC)
Mitigating Factors: 15d6 backlash(-15DC), 
COST: 907,200 GP

This spell creates a stream of Bluish energy that surges forward to the designated range, before 
exploding, dealing 40d6 damage (pure destructive force) to all within a 20' radius.


*SHAPECHANGE NOTES: *
ARCHON - Can Greater Teleport at will (self plus 50 pounds only, CL 14)
BEHOLDER - Antimagic field + Eye rays 
GENIE - Can Plane Shift at will (self plus up to 8 other creatures, CL 13)
AVORAL - True Seeing
12 HEADED HYDRA - Fast Healing 22
DRAGON - Breath Weapon, Frightful Presence, Blindsense, Keen Senses, Flight


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## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> You, Bro?  Impossible! *L*




No me to be honest.  I'm a total freaking pain but at least you know I'm into the game. 

I also did Christmas last year for some of PbP DMs.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> You, Bro?  Impossible! *L*
> 
> Anyways, I've done a bunch of changes to my char and here's the new and improved Uber-mage.
> 
> I've also come up with some of those background adventure ideas, I'll post'em up soon.




Can you put up calculations for AC, saves, attacks, skill mods, etc.?


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## Jemal (Feb 27, 2004)

Done.

Hey, can anybody help me come up with a better name for Powerstrike? (40d6 Destructive damage, 20' radius)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Done.
> 
> Hey, can anybody help me come up with a better name for Powerstrike? (40d6 Destructive damage, 20' radius)




Like any good archmage, you need to name spells after yourself.  Kel's Powerstrike works, but doesn't come trippingly off the tongue; Kel's Ravaging Blast of Unimaginable Power is a little wordy.  Perhaps Kel's Unstoppable Strike?


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## Wrahn (Feb 27, 2004)

Hey, didn't we go through this in your game with me...

I think the general concensus was temporary spells (even epic ones) don't add to spells you can cast per day no matter how long they last. Up to Paxus though.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 27, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Hey, didn't we go through this in your game with me...
> 
> I think the general concensus was temporary spells (even epic ones) don't add to spells you can cast per day no matter how long they last. Up to Paxus though.




That is the rule, and it certainly seems a wise one in light of that mind-boggling Charisma boost.


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## Wrahn (Feb 27, 2004)

Yeah I had a 70 Intelligence and I wanted the spells.  I will never forgive Pyrex for pointing out I didn't get them.


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## Pyrex (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal, how'd you figure the pricing on the staff?  Seems a bit cheap for 3 at-will CL 20 spells given that even without the spells it costs 144k.

Wrahn:  
(come on, you've got to admit it was a bit much)


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## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 27, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Yeah I had a 70 Intelligence and I wanted the spells.  I will never forgive Pyrex for pointing out I didn't get them.



Okay I'll bite...  How did you get a 70 Intelligence?


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## Jemal (Feb 27, 2004)

Pyrex - 
Wall of Iron: 20X6X750= 90,000
Wall of Force: 20X5X750X.75=56,250
Wall of Stone: 20X5X750X.75=56,250
+5 Defending: 72,000
+5 Defending: 72,000
total: 346,500

Paxus - DOh!  That looses me several spells/lvl.. Does it still affect my DC's?
I'm gonna have to do something 'bout that...

As for the 'Powerstrike' spell...
Spellblast
Hell Strike
Kel's Hell
Anihilating Strike/Blast
Obliterating Strike/Blast
Ka-friggin-boom (ok that was just a joke)
Or I could change it to a Bolt and call it "HADOKEN"


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Paxus - DOh!  That looses me several spells/lvl.. Does it still affect my DC's?
> I'm gonna have to do something 'bout that...




Yes, it still affects spell DCs.  In compensation, I think that I will use the variant rule that lets you use your spellcasting modifier for Spellcraft rolls used to cast epic spells.


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## Jemal (Feb 27, 2004)

Cool, sounds good.  

Also, how high can you take a Skill enhancing item?

Cuz using the listed method in the DMG, a +30 to skill is only 90,000...

I'ld think anything more than +30 would be an EPIC item, and thus cost 10X as much.. or should it be anything more than +20?


EDIT: Why's it say Iron DM by my name?  Cool and all, but.. weird.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Cool, sounds good.
> 
> Also, how high can you take a Skill enhancing item?
> 
> ...




I actually think the pre-epic limit is +10.


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## Jemal (Feb 27, 2004)

I don't mean to contradict the DM, but +10 doesn't make since...

Greater Shadow, Greater Silent Moves, and Greater Slick (Armour Enhancers) only cost +33,750, definitely NON epic, and they give +15 each to a Skill

Closest I can find to a limit in the book seems to be that all the skill enhancers need a CL aproximately equal to the bonus given.. which was why I thought +20

You are, of course, well within your rights as DM to house rule it to +10, however, I'm just quoting book-rules.

EDIT: 
BTW, I updated the charcter at the top of this page, assuming a +15 Spellcraft boosting item.  I'll change it to +10 if that's what you rule..


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## Wrahn (Feb 27, 2004)

Same way Jemal did, I was just a bit more extreme:

Expand Consciousness:

Using raw magic, the caster channels unbelievable forces to expand their mind to near deific levels. This comes at great personal cost, but for 5 days, the casters mind is almost unparalleled granting a +30 Enhancement bonus to Intelligence at the cost of 2000xp.


DC43 +30 Enhancement bonus to Intelligence, Duration: 5 days
17 base +58 for +29 enhancement, +10 for x6 base time, -2 for personal, -20 for +10 minutes to cast, -20 2000xp to cast.

and

Knowledge of the Ages:

There is a resonant trace of information that resides in everything in the universe. Some spells tap directly into that knowledge gathering information. This spell taps into all of the knowledge, everywhere, however no mind can handle that amount of information on a conscious level. Subconscious awareness of this information grants the caster a +10 Insight bonus to his intelligence but at the cost of 2000xp.


DC45 +10 Insight Bonus to Intelligence, Duration: 5 days
23 base, +54 for +9 Insight, +10 for +500% time, -2 for personal, -20 for +10 minutes to cast, -20 2000xp to cast


Also Jemal you should note that you can take the full -20 for an additional 10 minutes to cast, it is how all the epic level spell examples work. It should also be noted in retrospect, I should have just made one larger spell and bought a skill enhancing item.  /shrug live and learn


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 27, 2004)

You're right; in 3.0 nothing was above 10, but that has changed.  I'm still livign in the past.  +20 is the non-epic max for this game.


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## Pyrex (Feb 27, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Pyrex -
> Wall of Iron: 20X6X750= 90,000
> Wall of Force: 20X5X750X.75=56,250
> Wall of Stone: 20X5X750X.75=56,250
> ...




Ahh, the first time I read your description I missed the '50 charges' part and thought you were aiming for unlimited use.

Your math is still a bit off though, as the third spell in the staff the WoS should be x .5 instead of x .75.

And if you're still looking for spell names you could always change _Unearthly Grace_ to _Kel's Unstoppable Ego_


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## Wrahn (Feb 27, 2004)

Bonus Human Feat: Skill Focus:Spellcraft
1st: Empower Spell
3rd: Maximize Spell
6th: Heighten Spell
9th: Craft Wondrous Item
12th: Spell Focus:Transmutation
15th: Spell Focus:Evocation
18th: ?

I believe you are Missing a feat here.  Is that Spell Penetration?


----------



## Wrahn (Feb 27, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Wrahn:
> (come on, you've got to admit it was a bit much)




I don't have to admit anything (even if it is true )

Actually I asked the question of Jemal and you pointed out a few things in the rules I had overlooked.  Truthfully I just wanted the Int for the DC bump, but it occured to me that I could have the spells too.  I would have had them coming out of my ears, which was good, seeing how my character was designed to pump out massive amounts of spell power quickly.

If we hadn't had people jump all over the arcane casters, I probably would have gone with a version of Selvas, since I never got to play him and I think I could have built him better.


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## Jemal (Feb 27, 2004)

K, did another edit.  
Whran - You're right, I Forgot to include one of his feats, must've gotten lost in the cut+pasting, it's in there now. (Widen Spell.. go 80' radius meteor swarm!)  Anyone got an army they want toasted?
Also, thnx for pointing out the 10 minute thing.. I was thinking for some reason it was 10 minutes max before u started on days (+9 minutes).  That's been changed.

Also fixed my staff cost (Thnx for reminding me of that, Pyrex) and added another spell to it.

AND I got a question for Paxus - 
The book says that an item with 50 charges costs Half of an unlimited use item.. It uses the Ring of the Ram as an example.  What I wanna know is does that mean if I double the cost of the Ring of the Ram I could have it unlimited use?  
pretty please?

Also, who was playing the other Arcane spellcaster?  I wanna talk to you about spell selection.. as a Sorc, I've only got a few spell's known and don't want to unnecesarily take any spells that we only need one caster to have (Greater Scry, Magnificent Mansion, Knock, etc)


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## Pyrex (Feb 27, 2004)

That note deals specificially with figuring the creation cost for items based on spells with XP costs or costly material components.  It's not an additional modifier to make bad-ass wands. 

However, if we assume that the Ring of the Ram is just a ring-shaped wand of a first level hypothetical 'Ram' spell  (at caster level 9) with an extra 25% tacked on for the ability to use up to three charges, a 5charge/day command-word item would cost 16,200 (which, amusingly enough, works out to just short of twice the cost of the original ring...)


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 28, 2004)

To make an unlimited-use ring of the ram, you would need to spend six times as much as the charged item, as it would always be used at the three charge level.


----------



## Jemal (Feb 29, 2004)

Done.  We still have to talk about backgrounds and all that though, right guys?


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Feb 29, 2004)

Jemal, hey you make alot of your own magic items right...?  Care to help me with a small project?


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## Jemal (Mar 1, 2004)

What were you thinking?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Mar 1, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> What were you thinking?



Wow, that scary I was on my way here to say never mind that PA hooked me up via email but thanks.


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## Wrahn (Mar 1, 2004)

Paxus, could you start a Rogues gallery thread?

As far as a common history, I sort of sketched out what I was thinking, I am willing to listen to other ideas.

Anyway, other than a mutual history I am good to go, so whenever you are ready Paxus.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 1, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Paxus, could you start a Rogues gallery thread?
> 
> As far as a common history, I sort of sketched out what I was thinking, I am willing to listen to other ideas.
> 
> Anyway, other than a mutual history I am good to go, so whenever you are ready Paxus.




As soon as we get party history hashed out, we can begin.  I'll set up the Rogue's Gallery now; I'm afraid I have no computer skills, so someone else will have to link to it if that's desired.


----------



## Wrahn (Mar 1, 2004)

Paxus's Godwar


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## Wrahn (Mar 2, 2004)

Okay, anyone have any further ideas about a common history?


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## Wrahn (Mar 2, 2004)

This is a kind of, what they have been doing recently from my characters point of view.  Please, input from the rest of the players would make this easier.

_It is good to have us all together again for a happy occasion_, Talariel thought to herself as she watched the others in the great ballroom.

A great party had been arranged to celebrate Queen Laidri’s twentieth year of rulership.  It had been a tumultuous rule, as they well knew, but she had ruled well, with an even hand.  They had played no small part in keeping her crown on her head and her kingdom in one piece, which was why they had been invited.

Lochlan was standing over by the musicians, looking uncomfortable and out of place.  He was woefully underdressed in his sturdy, many times patched clothing.  He had taken a vow to own nothing more.  In many ways Talariel envied his simple, powerful convictions.  He spent his time moving from place to place, helping others.  From aiding the sick and elderly to defeating entire goblinoid raiding forces single handedly.  They had to practically beat him to make him come to the party, even to gather the old team together again.  Still he had come, and looked miserable in doing so.

Vlad was dancing with the queen, being roguish and charming as usual.  The rumors still abound that he and the queen are lovers, but she had purposefully kept herself ignorant of the truth, though she had told them both what she thought of the idea.  Vlad had spent the last few years amassing a fortune plying the trade routes.  In fact he had also amassed a wealth of information for the queen acting as a spy and her agent.

Thoria was dancing with Ambassador Seldor and she seemed to be having a grand time, as she chatted with the him.  Thoria had taken a position of leadership among the Deepdelver clan’s military when things had slowed down for them.  Under her command they had begun driving the drow out of the upper reaches, taking the dwarves on the offensive for the first time in three hundred years.

Kel was flirting with a couple of the younger ladies of the court.  She had seen little of him recently, as he had retreated to study some great project.  What project it was he would not say, but disturbing rumors had reached her ears.  She trusted him not to do anything foolish, but even wise men can do foolish things when desperate.

She had kept herself busy acting as an advisor to her majesty and playing political games in the court.  Something that she was fairly certain Lochlan disapproved of, seeing how she would prefer a direct course, rather than the subtler one she was taking.

She watched by the grand ballroom entrance smiling at her friends, but there was a dark foreboding in the back of her mind and knew the rest of them felt it as well.  It had been quiet for too long, some storm was brewing just out of their sight.


----------



## Pyrex (Mar 2, 2004)

I like it, but I think you're underestimating Lochlan's capability for subtlety...


Even if he did feel out of place at a royal ball Lochlan was happy to see everyone again.  Seeing everyone reminded him of the last time they had all been together...

...the fall morning had dawned clear and bright, if a little cool.  The cool stillness of the morning suited Lochlan just fine though, as he had been hard at work helping Darren harvest gourds for an hour or so.   Once full, they began pushing the heavy cart towards town.  

"Where're you headed with these?" asked the gate guard.  When Darren replied that they were bring brought to the market square for sale the guard told him that the day trading fee had recently increased to 6cp/cart for locally grown vegetables.  As Darren had only had the customary 4cp for the toll, the guard was about to refuse them admittance to the city until Lochlan spoke up. 

"'scuse me m'lord, but perhaps the duke'd be want'n some of these for his kitchens?  Mabye we could pay the fee that way?"

The guard snickers, then with a bit of a sadistic grin, "I suppose you can at that." The guard then points from Lochlan to a large basket with an equally large hole in the bottom that had been discarded near the gates, "You take that basket there and fill it with your gourds and carry it up the hill there to the duke's keep.  When I see you reach the outer bailey I'll let you friend here in to sell what's left."

With a dispirited look, Lochlan begins filling the basket, trying to keep them from spilling out the hole.  Once full he picks it up, and staggering under the load begins stumbling towards the keep.  Stopping every now and then as the gourds begin to slip out of the ruined basket.

As he reaches the keep the bored guards wave him inside and around to the back, not even bothering to ask him his business.  Leaving the gourds in the kitchen, he picks up an armload of firewood and towards the keep's hall, while stacking it near the fireplace he overhears  "Duke, there's a merchant here to see you.  Says he's got a wagonload of selindran arms you might be interested in seeing."...

... Lochlan shakes his head, returning his thoughts to the present, "_The more things change the more they stay the same.  I may as well be invisible.  Except for Talariel hardly anyone has even noticed I'm here._"


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## Jemal (Mar 3, 2004)

Kel was glad to see the old gang back together again, though it WAS interfering slightly with his research.  He caught Talariel glancing around, catching her eye, and gave a nod before returning his attention to the girls he was with.  They were comely lasses, but not the real reason he was here.  
His extra-planar contacts had been hinting that something was up, and so he had come, thinking it best to be on hand should anything happen.  'With the four of us... Oh, 5, the Ascetic IS here after all..' He thought to himself 'none would dare attack here.. though I got from that Balor that whatever was at stake was a bit more than a mere kingdom.  I doubt anything will disturb the party.'


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## Wynter Wolf (Mar 3, 2004)

As Vlad danced with the Queen he looked around the room, The others were here and for that he was glad. The friendship of the group really meant alot to the Rake growing up on the streets he had few friends he could count on.

 Thinking to himself, Who would have thought the poor street urchin would later in life be dancing with a Queen, He thought about her alot of people thought there was something between the two. There wasnt but if others who did not know better thought Vlad and her were lovers it kept less scrupulous people from vying for the Queens attention. 

 He had come along way Vlad thought, He thought back to an event that happend not long ago the local guild master got a little full of himself and felt he was more powerful than he was. Vlad got word thru one of the Queens advisors that Ortho the guild master was starting to up his rackets and stirring up trouble. Vlad as always looking out for the Queens interest broke into the guild hall bypassing all the traps and alarms with ease, and in at least one instance on a non lethal trap rigged the disarm device to set it off.

 Sneaking into Orth's room Vlad woke the guild leader and spoke to him of the error of his ways and that if he did not back off in his operations the next visit might not be so friendly. 

 Once again Vlad thought it was good to see the others and hoped soon there would be another grand adventure.


----------



## Wrahn (Mar 3, 2004)

Well that is all but Mith.  This may explain it.  Great posting guys


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## Wrahn (Mar 3, 2004)

Well, since that post Mith hasn't been back on.  Though he may be watching us all now (It is kind of a ghost thing, he can see us but not communicate, we are being haunted by Mithreander)  Do we want to push on with what we have and let Mith (and any of the others) catch up?  After all we have a fighter (Lochlan), a Cleric (Talariel), a Rogue (Vlad), and a Mage (Kel) making us the prototypical party.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 4, 2004)

One quick question: what pantheon(s) are worshipped in Laidri's realm?


----------



## Wrahn (Mar 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> One quick question: what pantheon(s) are worshipped in Laidri's realm?




Your world, you decide.  Only thing I would say is that it would more than probably has good dieties that were primarily worshiped.  I was thinking it was primarily a fantasy medieval kingdom, so if you were looking for suggestions, perhaps the Greyhawk Pantheon from the Players Handbook.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 4, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Your world, you decide.  Only thing I would say is that it would more than probably has good dieties that were primarily worshiped.  I was thinking it was primarily a fantasy medieval kingdom, so if you were looking for suggestions, perhaps the Greyhawk Pantheon from the Players Handbook.




Alright then; the Greek deities are primarily worshipped, but small cults exist to the Seldarine and local small gods.  Note that A) I'm avoiding generic fantasy pantheons; gods are cultural, not globe-spanning; and B) there are very few outright evil gods, and most of them are suppressed.  Loki is bound in a cave with a serpent dripping venom on him, Lolth and Laduguer have been banished from their respective pantheon's domains, etc., and some of the gods described as evil in Deities and Demigods, such as Ares, are neutral.

EDIT:  I'll start the game tomorrow afternoon or evening; I've got midterms to study for.


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## Wrahn (Mar 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> EDIT:  I'll start the game tomorrow afternoon or evening; I've got midterms to study for.




Is it that time already...

Good Luck on the midterms.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Mar 4, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Good Luck on the midterms.




Yes good luck my friend.


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## Wrahn (Mar 5, 2004)

Jemal,

Kel's Epic spell has the wrong DC on it.  You forgot to adjust it when you raised it to +40 enhancement bonus.  It should be DC75 (19 base +78 (+39 Enhancement) -20 (11 minutes to cast), -2 (Personal) = 75).  Also where did you get the other +2 synergy bonus to your spellcraft?  If it is from decipher script, that only applies to figuring out what spells are on scrolls.  The good news is the with a 67 (33 Ranks, +14 Charisma, +15 Competence, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Synergy) Spellcraft you can still cast it (because you can take a 10) on the other hand it cost 810,000gps (complete with Paxus's +20% cost but no experience) to make.

Sorry


----------



## Pyrex (Mar 5, 2004)

Jemal, all spells in a staff have to have the same CL.  You may want to reconsider the quickened TS...


----------



## Wrahn (Mar 5, 2004)

I do have a question for you all, someone else had asked for an epic game in another thread, and since I think it is just us four, do we want to offer up places for them?

Now to be perfectly frank, I prefer smaller games, I think we have a good mix with our numbers and the three other people who showed interest have never officially dropped out.  But if others would prefer more, I do not have a strong preference either way.


----------



## Jemal (Mar 5, 2004)

Pyrex - thnx for pointing that out.  I'll fix by either upping the CL or dropping the spell.

Whran - the synergy is from Knowledge: Arcana.  Page 66 has a list of all the skills that give synergy bonuses to other skills.  
As for the Epic spell, I know that. I was in the middle of editing it when I realized I was late to catch a bus, and forgot to go back and finish.  I'll edit my char. right now.

And it doesn't matter to me if we invite more or not.. I don't mind big games, though I prefer 4-5 PCs.


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## Wrahn (Mar 5, 2004)

The synergy bonus was +4, According to the SRD the only blanket synergy bonus is +2 from KS: Arcana.  I was just running through the numbers when I saw the +4 and was wondering.


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## Jemal (Mar 5, 2004)

it's an Epic synergy bonus.  For every 20 ranks(beyond the first 5) you have in a skill that gives a synergy bonus, you gain another +2 synergy bonus, it's from the ELH, and they take it out in 3.5


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## Wrahn (Mar 5, 2004)

See, you learn something new everyday.  Thanks.  (Do they specifically take it out or not mention it in the 3.5 epic rules?)


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## Jemal (Mar 5, 2004)

they don't mention it, and they said that anything not mentioned is unchanged.


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## Pyrex (Mar 6, 2004)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Pyrex - thnx for pointing that out.  I'll fix by either upping the CL or dropping the spell.




I had another thought for you.  Instead of increasing the CL to 20, it would be slightly cheaper (and vastly more effective) to put 50 charges of _Quickened True Strike_ on the other end of the staff...


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## Jemal (Mar 6, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> I had another thought for you.  Instead of increasing the CL to 20, it would be slightly cheaper (and vastly more effective) to put 50 charges of _Quickened True Strike_ on the other end of the staff...





Pyrex.. thank you for the idea.  The money doesn't really matter too much(I've got over 400K left to spend AFTER buying everything I 'need'), BUT the 'extra charges' would be good.


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## Wrahn (Mar 6, 2004)

Paxus, we have an eta on the Game post (no pressure, just wondering)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 6, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Paxus, we have an eta on the Game post (no pressure, just wondering)




I'll see what I can do tonight.  Midterms are now over; finals in a week and a half might interfere.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 6, 2004)

Thread is up here.


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## Pyrex (Mar 7, 2004)

I assume Hierakonpolis is part of the elven empire?  
Would the four of us be welcome there?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 7, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> I assume Hierakonpolis is part of the elven empire?
> Would the four of us be welcome there?




Hierakonpolis is the capital of the River Kingdoms, who worship the Egyptian deities.  I forgot not everyone knows obscure ancient history off the top of their head.  Additionally, the High Woods are elven territory, and the Dragonspine Mountains are inhabited primarily by dwarves, though other subterranean races also dwell there.

You'd likely be welcome almost anywhere on the planet, at least at the moment.  Obviously, everyone's suspicious of what you're doing, and even more suspicious when you're not doing anything, because of the power you wield, but by the same token, they're not going to risk offending you without a divine patron or two.


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## Mithreander (Mar 8, 2004)

Hey, I'm back! What have I missed? Has someone gone over my character? Is everything cool? I've lookedover the last few pages, but found nothing that needed correcting on my part. I'm glad that the IC thread has not started yet, and that I'll be there from the start!


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## Wrahn (Mar 8, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Thread is up here.




We started Saturday.  Don't you have more money to spend?

Welcome back btw and we haven't really moved from the opening scene yet, so you haven't missed anything.


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## Mithreander (Mar 8, 2004)

I'll work on the rest of Thoria's equipment tomorrow. 

Thanks for the link!


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## Pyrex (Mar 10, 2004)

Paxus said:
			
		

> I have no ability to upload or draw maps.  I can provide information as requested, but that's about it.




Looking north from Hierakonpolis, where is it likely that Thor's army would be gathering for the march?  

Where will there supply trains run?  

How far (and across what terrain) is it from the army's staging area to Hierakonpolis?

What is the terrain like around Hierakonpolis?

Is Hierakonpolis defensible?

How much standing military does Hierakonpolis ususally maintain?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 11, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Looking north from Hierakonpolis, where is it likely that Thor's army would be gathering for the march?
> 
> Where will there supply trains run?
> 
> ...




Norse armies do not gather significantly, nor do they have supply trains or staging areas; following a Moot, (a gathering of warriors, usually for governmental purposes), should war be declared, they simply start marching, picking up troops along the way and foraging.  You'd guess that, once they reach the High Wood, it will take them three weeks to cross, and another week in good weather (up to three months in bad) to cross the Dragonspine Mountains.  From there, they could easily reach the gates of Hierakonpolis within two weeks.  Those figures, of course, assume no interference by the inhabitants.  Hierakonpolis is moderately defensible, having a small, brick city wall and a broad but slow river on the side the Norse armoy approaches.  The River Kingdoms have a standing army of considerable size and renowned training, especially against the irregularly arrayed Norsemen; however, they are primarily a chariot force, with only peasantry making up the footmen, so should the Norse not crumble under the initial assault, they could easily force a breakthrough with sheer ferocity.  Such military assessment does not take into account the possibility of supernatural interference on either side, which is less predictable.


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## Pyrex (Mar 11, 2004)

So if they're picking up troops along the way, that means the army has to pass through at least a handful of largish towns collecting troops.  If they're marching on Hieronkopolis, it stands to reason they'll collect troops from the larger settlements nearer the high wood.

Which population centers is Thor likely to have to pass through to build up his army?  (assuming he's not already done so)


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 11, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> So if they're picking up troops along the way, that means the army has to pass through at least a handful of largish towns collecting troops.  If they're marching on Hieronkopolis, it stands to reason they'll collect troops from the larger settlements nearer the high wood.
> 
> Which population centers is Thor likely to have to pass through to build up his army?  (assuming he's not already done so)




Most places that would be called population centers are on the coast to the east of the High Woods, southeast of where the Norse would enter.  If they're going to join, they will meet him near the border, after marching from the ocean, rather than being picked up directly by the army.


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## Mithreander (Mar 11, 2004)

I would assume that if a god took the time to manifest physically, that if he called out, an army would seek him out at his wish. He could come from any direction. 

Our best course to figure out his location is have someone transport to one of those coastal cities to listen to the rumors. I would trust that this information would be on everybodies lips. It should be no great act to find out where Thor is, if he's already on the move. Any close by Ranger or Druid could figure that out with a single spell, Commune with Nature.


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## Wrahn (Mar 12, 2004)

Paxus,

Do I need to remake Talariel?  She is a +8 ECL and was constructed using the standard 3.5 epic rules.  Doing so would have a significant impact on the character.


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## Pyrex (Mar 12, 2004)

Am I missing something?  Talariel's char sheet is listed at 8LA+12HD+ClassLevels which should be correct.

What did you do wrong?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 12, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Paxus,
> 
> Do I need to remake Talariel?  She is a +8 ECL and was constructed using the standard 3.5 epic rules.  Doing so would have a significant impact on the character.




I see your point; for the time being, leave it as is while I ponder the problem.  At the moment, I'm leaning towards reversing my earlier ruling, for power balance rather than consistency.

For those unclear on where this came from, it's from a discussion in my other epic game.


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## Pyrex (Mar 12, 2004)

*goes to find & read other thread*

Ah, I see.  To fill in everyone who hasn't read the other thread, the discussion is about when a character becomes "Epic" and therefore gains access to Epic Feats.

The main question is if a character becomes "Epic" when thier ECL reaches 21 or when they gain their 21st hit die.  

FWIW, my interpretation of the rules supports the 'Epic at 21hd' theory. (sorry Wrahn)


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## Wrahn (Mar 12, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> *goes to find & read other thread*
> 
> Ah, I see.  To fill in everyone who hasn't read the other thread, the discussion is about when a character becomes "Epic" and therefore gains access to Epic Feats.
> 
> ...




Heck it was my interpretation too, until I read the side bar on pg 25 of the ELH, which I think Jemal pointed out to Golden Eagle in the epic game that never got off the ground.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 12, 2004)

The hit die rule is more consistent with most features; it is, however, a problem with play balance, as epic features are specifically design to allow balance at epic levels of play, not at 21+ HD.  Therefore, I think I will rule that epic BAB, epic saves, and access to epic feats begins at ECL 21.


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## Mithreander (Mar 12, 2004)

Agreed:



			
				Epic Level Handbook said:
			
		

> *Monsters as Epic Characters*
> 
> As first introduced in the _forgotten Realms Campaign Setting_ (and discussed in detail in _Savage Species_), the efective character level (ECL) of any creature more powerful then the standard races in the _Player's Handbook_ is equal to the creature's Hit Dice and class levels (if any) plus it's level adjustment. This replaces the rule in the _Monster Manual_ that states that a creature's "monster level" is equal to it's Hit Dice.
> 
> ...


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## Pyrex (Mar 15, 2004)

So it seems to me that there are only a few likely reasons for Tal's teleports to have failed.

a)  Over the course of history, the elves have warded thousands of cubic miles of the high forest against teleportation.

b)  The entire High Forest has recently been warded by some huge epic spell.

c)  Thor is near to where Tal tried to 'port and has brought mobile wards with him.

I would expect we'd know if it's a).  How do we go about determining b)?

Trying to teleport to somewhere several miles north of the territorial bounds of the High Wood might help narrow it down.


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## Wrahn (Mar 16, 2004)

The problem is, I am not sure that we know a place several miles north of the High Woods.  Paxus?


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## Pyrex (Mar 16, 2004)

Even if we don't, Tal can still LOS 'port and be there in a matter of minutes.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Mar 16, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> The problem is, I am not sure that we know a place several miles north of the High Woods.  Paxus?




You have been several miles north of the High Woods; in your careers, you've been pretty much everywhere.  Besides, with Greater Teleport, only a rough description is needed.


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## Wrahn (Mar 16, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Even if we don't, Tal can still LOS 'port and be there in a matter of minutes.




Depends on how close we can get.



			
				Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> You have been several miles north of the High Woods; in your careers, you've been pretty much everywhere. Besides, with Greater Teleport, only a rough description is needed.




All depends on your definition of rough description, which varies from GM to GM.  But that answers the question.


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## Pyrex (Mar 16, 2004)

Wrahn said:
			
		

> Depends on how close we can get.




I would think that with _Greater Teleport_ at will and _Persistant Quickshift_ active anywhere within a 1000 miles would be close enough.

Tal can 'port in 5-10 mile jumps twice* every six seconds.

*Once as a free action due to _Quickshift_ and once as a standard action.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Pax?  You there?
We're off to a good start, I don't want to see this game die...


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## Wrahn (Mar 24, 2004)

Paxus hasn't been too active this week, I had assumed that he was in Finals week.

by the way, Pyrex, are you actually in the G v E wargameand if so were you one of those who had been assassinated?


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Yep.  I'm on the Evil side.  
I was the only general of the three not assassinated.
(given the fight I haven't had a chance to do much yet though)


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## Jemal (Mar 30, 2004)

I was gone for a while, now I'm back.  Will post ASAP, but finishing up all my OOC "I'm back" posts first.  For explanation, check out my "EXPERIENCE" OOC thread.


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## Pyrex (Apr 1, 2004)

Paxus said:
			
		

> Experimentation will show that the entire Northlands, the River Kingdoms, and everything in between, and at least one day's normal travel on any side, is so blocked




 

Well, that certainly makes things more difficult.

Are there any reasonable explanations other than "Thor did it"?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Apr 1, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Well, that certainly makes things more difficult.
> 
> Are there any reasonable explanations other than "Thor did it"?




No reason for Thor to block Hierakonpolis; if it wasn't barred, he could simply collect his army, then Gate them into the middle of the city.  One imagines, though, that the Egyptian pantheon might not like that idea, and so have protected their own territory, and a few nearby locations as well, to slow the advance of the Norse.


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## Pyrex (Apr 1, 2004)

Interesting point.  There are three distinct regions that have been warded (north of the high wood, the high wood and Heirakonpolis).

I hadn't considered that different entities could be responsible for warding each area.


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## Wrahn (Apr 1, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Interesting point.  There are three distinct regions that have been warded (north of the high wood, the high wood and Heirakonpolis).
> 
> I hadn't considered that different entities could be responsible for warding each area.




Yes, now we are forced to traverse the actual distance between our origin and our destination, like... like non-epic characters!  The pain!  The humiliation! My wings are sore already...

On a more serious note, Thor warding his army means he is expecting trouble, this could mean that he is being prudent and not expecting those who is intending to walk over to be passive until he arrives or the he has already been attacked by teleporting foes (possibly the cause of the attack).

Also the dwarves are more than likely warded as well, otherwise he would just jump to them and save his army a march.


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## Wrahn (Apr 21, 2004)

We alive here?

Who all is still playing?


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## Pyrex (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm still here and still want to play, but it looks like you & I are the only ones posting.


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## Jemal (Apr 22, 2004)

me=here.
but i haven't posted lately.


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## Pyrex (Apr 22, 2004)

So get in there and post!


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