# The New D&D Book Is Called "Ghosts of Saltmarsh" [UPDATED!]



## dwayne (Feb 24, 2019)

This was set in Greyhawk The town of Saltmarsh was. I am wondering did they steal this from the original setting to put it in the genericx realms or is it in the setting that is was set in from the start.


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## vecna00 (Feb 24, 2019)

Holy Crap! Official announcement was probably going to drop with Dragon+ then.


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## Prakriti (Feb 24, 2019)

So _Tales from the Yawning Portal: Part II_, basically?

Sounds like the adventures are reprints rather than re-imaginings.


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## Staffan (Feb 24, 2019)

Prakriti said:


> So _Tales from the Yawning Portal: Part II_, basically?
> 
> Sounds like the adventures are reprints rather than re-imaginings.




Half* Yawning Portal and half rules for nautical stuff.

* Probably more like 75/25, but whatever.


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## Mercule (Feb 24, 2019)

Very cool. I've never done a sea-focused adventure in 35 years of gaming, so I'm going to guess that all these are new to me. If they can be dropped into Eberron fairly easily, I may have to pick this up.


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## Charles Rampant (Feb 24, 2019)

Interesting, rather different than what most of us imagined. By that, I think it is safe to say the general assumption was a 'nautical stuff' book with mainly monsters, campaign ideas, and ship rules; this appears more like an adventure compendium with probably 20-40 pages of ship stuff appended to it, which is also very useful but certainly different. 

All I can assume is that, despite my own lukewarm feelings on it, Tales from the Yawning Portal sold really well (and/or was sufficiently cheap to make) that they identified that format as revisiting. I'd think it was lazy to re-use old adventures, but you might argue this way they have the benefit of being able to pick the most beloved ones, rather than gambling on a new one being as beloved. As per their usual wide net strategy, they've added just enough crunchy bits on top to attract DMs who might not be able to justify a pure adventure compendium.


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## RobJN (Feb 24, 2019)

I don't think _Isle of the Abbey_ was ever given a concrete location, aside from somewhere in D&D's Known World. So... pick some coastline in your world of choice, and drop it on in.


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## epithet (Feb 24, 2019)

Four Greyhawk modules, one Known World module, and two "any setting" modules.

Any chance this won't be shoehorned into the "Forgotten" Realms?


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## dave2008 (Feb 24, 2019)

So does this mean we are "officially" getting Greyhawk or is the Saltmarsh being ported to Faerun?


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 24, 2019)

Huh. I would have bet on the material from the sahuagin sourcebook and trilogy of adventures being included in here, along with some player-facing material.

Still, this seems like a great product.


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## DreadTheBard (Feb 24, 2019)

I am actually pretty pleased about this. The best part of Yawning portal was how easily I could insert classic dungeons into my own campaign and setting. Plus, I've been itching for some high seas shenanigans.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

Staffan said:


> Half* Yawning Portal and half rules for nautical stuff.
> 
> * Probably more like 75/25, but whatever.




Yawning Portal had an extensive section about the Yawning Portal, wouldn't expect much more than that. 

The inclusion of the Dungeon magazine Adventures is the interesting surprise here.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

epithet said:


> Four Greyhawk modules, one Known World module, and two "any setting" modules.
> 
> Any chance this won't be shoehorned into the "Forgotten" Realms?




Yawning Portal gave guidelines for Greyhawk, the Realms, Eberron and Dragonlance: probably this will be the same.


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## Carmen Sbordone (Feb 24, 2019)

*yawn*
Stripmine greyhawk i see. Rehash.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

Looking into the Dungeon Adventures, it seems the 3E era three already have built in advise for Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms or Eberron being used as the base setting.


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## Morrus (Feb 24, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> Yawning Portal gave guidelines for Greyhawk, the Realms, Eberron and Dragonlance: probably this will be the same.




Oh? How did it fit into Dragonlance?


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## RichGreen (Feb 24, 2019)

I like the look of this - loved The Styes!


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## FitzTheRuke (Feb 24, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> Yawning Portal gave guidelines for Greyhawk, the Realms, Eberron and Dragonlance: probably this will be the same.




I agree. It's probably going to have a side-bar or a page that talks about how to place it in a variety of settings, while the main entries will talk about Saltmarsh as an individual location.


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## Bolongo (Feb 24, 2019)

I'm not sure how I feel about this. If all they do is update the stats, I'll be very disappointed.

I actually ran the U series recently, and found that while it had some fairly unique ideas for its time, it is now severely dated.

SPOILERS for decades old scenarios ahead...

U1 is OK, but a bit slow. Could do with some jazzing up. 

U2 mostly consists of a dungeon that you're not actually supposed to run through. The innovative idea here is that the optimal strategy is to negotiate with the "monsters". Unfortunately, once the designers came up with that gem of an idea, they didn't know what to do with it. There isn't much guidance for making such negotiations interesting, and the bulk of the material presented is only useful if the players choose the sub-optimal strategy of murder-hoboing.

U3 has the innovation of a dungeon that's kind of "realistic" in that it's mostly populated with one kind of creature, in the kind of numbers they would need to actually be the threat the series needs them to be. But if the DM also plays their reactions to intrusions in a realistic way, no party of a few PCs will have much survivability. They really need a lot of allies to mount a full-scale military assault - so what the DM needs is some rules for mass combat (which we didn't get then, and don't seem to be getting in the new book either).


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## MockingBird (Feb 24, 2019)

Cool, still need to pick up Yawning Portal to add the que. Right now we are in Tomb of Annihilation, then Curse of Strahd. I would like to do Out of the Abyss but Dragon Heist looks cool just not sure my players would like it. Definitely check this out cause we havent done any nautical stuff. Oh and interested in Storm King but all the reviews suggest a ton of DM prep.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Oh? How did it fit into Dragonlance?




The inn proper, which was weak and bizarre as a framing device, only had the Green Dragon In in Greyhawk as an alternative location. When you get to the actual Adventures, none of which involve the Yawning Portal in anyway, that changes.

On page 9, for "The Sunless Citadel": "On Krynn, the citadel was once part of Xak Tsaroth, and it harbored worshippers of Takhisis. When that city was destroyed during the cataclysm, it fell into a right that opened in the earth. In this setting, consider replacing the kobolds in the adventure with gully dwarves."

On page 33, for "The Forge of Fury": "On Krynn, Khundrukar can be placed anywhere in the Kharolis Mountains. An independent stronghold that has no direct tunnels connecting to Thorbardin, it was overrun by attackers during the Age of Might. During the Age of Despair, it was seized by Highlord Verminaard's forces. Consider replacing the orcs in the adventure with hobgoblins and the duergsr with Theiwar dwarves."

On page 61, for "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan": "The hidden shrine might not be part of an ancient city on Krynn, but instead an isolated temple for a weird dead cult devoted to the good Chenosh. The site could date back to the Age of Dreams, and might be on an isle or an isolated region near the Blood Sea of Istar."

On page 95, for "White Plume Mountain": "Found near Neraka in the Khalkist Mountains, the mountain might be a place of interest not only to adventurers, but also to the armies of Takhisis."

On page 109, for "Dead in That": "On Krynn, the Doomvault is likely to be the work of renegade wizards, perhaps of more than one color, with magic as their only alliance and moral compass. The dungeon might exist underneath a ruined Tower of High Sorcery, or it could be a haunt of Fistandantilus before his failed attempt at godhood. If it is part of the ruins, it could even be the Tower of Istar, which Nuitari took at the end of the Chaos War. Or it might be the same tower, after Mina raised it and the black-robed wizards took it for their own."

On page 165, for "Against the Giants": "On Krynn, the alliance if giants could center on the Kharolis Mountains, bringing Abanasinia, Qualinesti, Thorbardin, Kharolis and Tarsis into the conflict. The ultimate villain in the Dragonlance setting would have to be dark exiles of an even more unexpected sort than those described in this adventure."

And finally, on page 212, for "Tomb of Horrors": "The tomb on Krynn might be in the foothills near the Eastwall Mountains, in the Cursed Lands of Newsea, or in the Shadowglades of Krynn, where a renegade wizards who served Takhisis was said to dwell."

Similar bits for each adventure detail Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms and Eberron possibilities. I reckon they will repeat something like that here.


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## Staffan (Feb 24, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> *yawn*
> Stripmine greyhawk i see. Rehash.




The only part of U1-3 that sets them in Greyhawk is in the half-or-so page about the town of Saltmarsh, which ends with: "On the WORLD OF GREYHAWK™ map, Saltmarsh is placed in the southernmost part of Keoland, at the western edge of hex U4/123." Were it not for that sentence, and a mention of Nystul and Tenser, there would be nothing about these modules that ties them to Greyhawk. They would work equally well in Forgotten Realms or Eberron. I'm not sure how well they'd work in Dragonlance since I'm not familiar with that setting.

You'd have to work a bit to make them fit in Dark Sun, though.


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## darjr (Feb 24, 2019)

I hope there is a special cover edition!


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## vpuigdoller (Feb 24, 2019)

This is what I wanted so very pleased by it.  Kind of bummed that it will relase on May 21. Was hoping early April late March.


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## Hussar (Feb 24, 2019)

Well, now with two books of shorter adventures, hopefully that will keep the "We want shorter adventures" crowd happy.


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## Carmen Sbordone (Feb 24, 2019)

Staffan said:


> The only part of U1-3 that sets them in Greyhawk is in the half-or-so page about the town of Saltmarsh, which ends with: "On the WORLD OF GREYHAWK™ map, Saltmarsh is placed in the southernmost part of Keoland, at the western edge of hex U4/123." Were it not for that sentence, and a mention of Nystul and Tenser, there would be nothing about these modules that ties them to Greyhawk. They would work equally well in Forgotten Realms or Eberron. I'm not sure how well they'd work in Dragonlance since I'm not familiar with that setting.
> 
> You'd have to work a bit to make them fit in Dark Sun, though.




Its still a greyhawk set. Its  STILL the strong pattern of taking stuff from greyhawk to FR.

IT is VERY MUCH a greyhawk module


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## Morrus (Feb 24, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> Its still a greyhawk set. Its  STILL the strong pattern of taking stuff from greyhawk to FR.
> 
> IT is VERY MUCH a greyhawk module




Why does that matter? At your game table it’s whatever you want it to be, a sentence or two of expository text notwithstanding.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> Its still a greyhawk set. Its  STILL the strong pattern of taking stuff from greyhawk to FR.
> 
> IT is VERY MUCH a greyhawk module




The Greyhawk material, the sentence fragment of it, is certainly going to be included, based on previous books. There might be a similar level of detail to make it fit for the other major settings.


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## Sword of Spirit (Feb 24, 2019)

I think I'll like this. I also like Yawning Portal because it is way easier to use than a mega-adventure. This one has the added benefit of new nautical rules, so we'll see how much value-added that ends up being.

I would be unhappy if they moved the adventure out of their previous setting, but I think that is extremely unlikely, because they didn't do that with Yawning Portal. I'm fine with giving options of which setting you want to place it in, and that's a good marketing strategy, as long as they don't effectively say "The adventure is no longer set in the original world, and is now located in..."  Fortunately they haven't  done that so far, and are unlikely to.


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## Carmen Sbordone (Feb 24, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Why does that matter? At your game table it’s whatever you want it to be, a sentence or two of expository text notwithstanding.




It ALWAYS matters. The more they steal from geeyhawk to shove into FR, the less likely they will either release items specifically for Greyhawk, or open the setting up so folks can release for items for it.

THATS why it matters.


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## Morrus (Feb 24, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> It ALWAYS matters. The more they steal from geeyhawk to shove into FR, the less likely they will either release items specifically for Greyhawk, or open the setting up so folks can release for items for it.
> 
> THATS why it matters.




I don’t get it, but fair enough. I don’t see how it’s taking anything away.


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## Ath-kethin (Feb 24, 2019)

Hussar said:


> Well, now with two books of shorter adventures, hopefully that will keep the "We want shorter adventures" crowd happy.




Nice try, but we won't be made happy just by giving us exactly what we've been demanding!


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## Carmen Sbordone (Feb 24, 2019)

Morrus said:


> I don’t get it, but fair enough. I don’t see how it’s taking anything away.




If they keep porting things out to FR, and it keeps greyhawk from being opened up on dmsguild or third party products, thats why.


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## Inchoroi (Feb 24, 2019)

I'm thrilled about this, as I'm running a pirate campaign next.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> If they keep porting things out to FR, and it keeps greyhawk from being opened up on dmsguild or third party products, thats why.




No evidence here that this book will not be equally Greyhawk focused as the original modules (more, quite possibly).

Mike Mearls was just talking about Greyhawk and how he wants to get a Greyhawk product into the world on Dragon Talk a couple weeks ago. Relax.


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## Obvious_Ninja (Feb 24, 2019)

This makes me happy. I love what they've done with all the updates to classic modules and I'm happy they're continuing.


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## Morrus (Feb 24, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> If they keep porting things out to FR, and it keeps greyhawk from being opened up on dmsguild or third party products, thats why.




They have never opened any settings for third parties, other than specific licenses. As for DMsG, fair enough. I’ve never really looked at it, but I understand that you feel differently.


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## gweinel (Feb 24, 2019)

So, this will be a Yawning Portal pt2 or the adventures will be reimagined and adapted to the rules of 5e? I really hope for the latter, because in the Yawning Portal there was no effort to adress the old problems of the adventures.


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## Carmen Sbordone (Feb 24, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> No evidence here that this book will not be equally Greyhawk focused as the original modules (more, quite possibly).
> 
> Mike Mearls was just talking about Greyhawk and how he wants to get a Greyhawk product into the world on Dragon Talk a couple weeks ago. Relax.




Pattern of behavior of taking items out of greyhawk to FR
 ToEE and ToH moved out of greyhawk into realms. So its very possible it will happen again.

 [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]. Thanks for starting to understand. Greyhawk is important to more then a few. And love to see it fly again.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

gweinel said:


> So, this will be a Yawning Portal pt2 or the adventures will be reimagined and adapted to the rules of 5e? I really hope for the latter, because in the Yawning Portal there was no effort to adress the old problems of the adventures.




Based on the pages previewed, it looks to be a Yawning Portal style port, with maybe a touch more adaptation.


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## Parmandur (Feb 24, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> Pattern of behavior of taking items out of greyhawk to FR
> ToEE and ToH moved out of greyhawk into realms. So its very possible it will happen again.
> 
> [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]. Thanks for starting to understand. Greyhawk is important to more then a few. And love to see it fly again.




Yawning Portal is the relevant previous behavior, and each adventure had material for using Greyhawk in that book. This will probably be the same here, based on existing patterns of behavior.


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## gyor (Feb 24, 2019)

For me this is an easy pass,  but I'm happy for GH fans if it is set in GH. Mystara fans too if one adventure is set there.


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## Hussar (Feb 24, 2019)

I've said this before in other threads, but, it bears repeating.  There is nothing in it for WotC to release Greyhawk in to the wilds on DMsGuild.  It's just not going to happen.  There's no upside for WotC in this scenario.  While I understand wanting it to be different, and, as a Greyhawk fan myself, I truly do understand, I also realize that the reality of the situation is that it's just not going to happen while WotC can leverage all that nostalgia for classic modules into new products.


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## Morrus (Feb 24, 2019)

“Settings” aren’t the thing. “Storylines” are the thing. Settings are so last decade. 

*Except Ravnica.


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## Carmen Sbordone (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> Yawning Portal is the relevant previous behavior, and each adventure had material for using Greyhawk in that book. This will probably be the same here, based on existing patterns of behavior.




2 examples beat one. Sorry


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## Reynard (Feb 25, 2019)

On the one hand, a collection of themed adventures is a great idea. On the other hand, these are nautical and seafaring adventures which don't interest me much. I'm happy of for those that like such things, though.

Given what this is, my pet theory is that the next one will be planar, or maybe even more "Planejammer" since there seems to be some evidence they are looking to incorporate some Spelljammer elements into the outer planes.. That they are drawing from the Dungeon Magazine archives is interesting, too.


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## dave2008 (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> ToEE and ToH moved out of greyhawk into realms. So its very possible it will happen again.




Not sure about the ToEE, but the ToH was not moved out of Greyhawk.


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## Joseph Nardo (Feb 25, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Why does that matter? At your game table it’s whatever you want it to be, a sentence or two of expository text notwithstanding.



Exactly!!


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## mykediemart (Feb 25, 2019)

Hold on, Hold on. This isn't set in my homebrew campaign world?  How am i supposed to use this?


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## Joseph Nardo (Feb 25, 2019)

Damm it....more money taken from me!..Will this never end?????


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## Joseph Nardo (Feb 25, 2019)

And for me personally....OH MY!!!!!!!.....another grail campaign!!


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## Jester David (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> 2 examples beat one. Sorry



Despite the original Tomb of Elemental Evil and Tomb of Horrors NOT being moved to the Realms I assume you mean how the Princes of Elemental Evil from the Elemental Planes also appeared in the Realms in addition to Greyhawk and how the multiverse travelling Acererak built dungeons on both Oerth and Toril. Yeah... nothing that was actually on Greyhawk was actually moved to the Realms.  Meanwhile, the adventures in _Curse of Strahd_ and _Yawning Portal_ both kept the locations in their original settings. There is ZERO reason to believe Saltmarsh will be moved to the Realms.


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## Joseph Nardo (Feb 25, 2019)

Morris...you are a evil person for posting this...you have cost me whatever price this book costs me!


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> 2 examples beat one. Sorry




The Tomb of Horrors was not removed from Greyhawk. From page 212 in Yawning Portal:

"In the original Tomb of Horrors, Gary Gygax suggested six possible, far-flung locations for the adventure in the Greyhawk setting - proof in itself that the tomb is liable to turn up just about anywhere. These possibilities are a follows:

• Inside the highest Hill on the Plain of Iuz
• On an island (unmapped) in the Nyr Dyv
• In the Bright Desert
• At the western border of the duchy of Geoff
• Somewhere in the Vast Swamp south of Sunndi
• On an island beyond the realm of the Sea Barons

"Other settings offer choices that are just as varied."

Tomb of Annihilation is a different dungeon entirely, taking advantage of Acererack being an established Planewalker. Indeed, his toes to Oerth get mentioned, which if anything make more Greyhawk material more likely.

The Temple of Elemental Evil has not been published in 5E. The Elemental cults in Princes of the Apocalypse are inspired by that , but distinct.

So, you have no examples of a pattern, but Yawning Portal provides a precise pattern that is likely to be followed.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> *yawn*
> Stripmine greyhawk i see. Rehash.



Every edition from 2E on basically has done the same. It shouldn't be a shock. D&D is bringing in new, big audiences and most of them weren't alive when the 1E adventures came out. It's a relatively quick way to make sure the best classic content stays relevant.

Apparently there's a new big campaign book coming this fall; I'd expect the new content to come from there.


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## Joseph Nardo (Feb 25, 2019)

The reason this means so much to me is because the U series was amongst the very first modules i ever played as a player before I became a DM. I killed EVERY single lizardman because I thought they were the evil ones. Oops, I made a slight mistake!. My DM must have been laughing so hard internally!


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## MockingBird (Feb 25, 2019)

Folks getting all bent out of shape over this. Nothing has been taken away from GH.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

Am I imagining things, or were we previously told there'd be two nautical books in 2019?


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

So, it turns out that the 3.x DMG II has a fully drawn out Saltmarsh, while the original modules left the town for the DM to draw out. I wonder if this will make use of that material as the frame setting?

If this book ends up being successful, using Dungeon modules opens up loads of new-old material.


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## Guest 6801328 (Feb 25, 2019)

Great news!  This comes in a close second behind Ravenloft in terms of 5e AP announcements I've been excited about.

Third place would be a very, very distant third.


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Am I imagining things, or were we previously told there'd be two nautical books in 2019?




No, we haven't been told that. This book, Kate Welch's first project as lead, is what was being discussed. There is also a comic book series set at sea along the Sword Coast coming in the next few months, and a giant ship mini from WizKids.

A seafaring AP storyline would not be surprising, and would fit with some long-standing clues, but is not necessarily coming this year.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

Bolongo said:


> U2 mostly consists of a dungeon that you're not actually supposed to run through. The innovative idea here is that the optimal strategy is to negotiate with the "monsters". Unfortunately, once the designers came up with that gem of an idea, they didn't know what to do with it. There isn't much guidance for making such negotiations interesting, and the bulk of the material presented is only useful if the players choose the sub-optimal strategy of murder-hoboing.



What 5E has that 1E didn't, though, is a robust social skill system. I think U2 is probably more playable now than it was at the time.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> So, it turns out that the 3.x DMG II has a fully drawn out Saltmarsh, while the original modules left the town for the DM to draw out. I wonder if this will make use of that material as the frame setting?



That would be smart and helpful. Based on the synopsis, I think it's likely.


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## Jester David (Feb 25, 2019)

Sounds cool but not very surprising. The team was pretty busy in the fall, so I expected another compilation of some kind. (Which is also why it's not coming out until late May rather than early April like other Spring releases.)  I like the idea of a more thematically connected version of _Tales From the Yawning Portal_. I do hope they do more than the casual editing pass TFtYP received, and actually give the adventures a tweak and modern update: it takes zero effort to update old 1e adventures to 5e and conversion guides aren't hard to find. It'd also be nice if they added a small section that gives you advice on how to go from one adventure to the next, some connective tissue making this a full storyline.


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## beholdsa (Feb 25, 2019)

I really hope this is set in Greyhawk and not jammed into the Realms.


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

Jester David said:


> Sounds cool but not very surprising. The team was pretty busy in the fall, so I expected another compilation of some kind. (Which is also why it's not coming out until late May rather than early April like other Spring releases.)  I like the idea of a more thematically connected version of _Tales From the Yawning Portal_. I do hope they do more than the casual editing pass TFtYP received, and actually give the adventures a tweak and modern update: it takes zero effort to update old 1e adventures to 5e and conversion guides aren't hard to find. It'd also be nice if they added a small section that gives you advice on how to go from one adventure to the next, some connective tissue making this a full storyline.




I'm not in a position to judge, but others who have the original modules said that the pages previewed so far have some significant changes from the original. Creating an actual framing device (unlike whatever was going on with the Yawning Portal) through setting up a sandbox in the Saltmarsh region seems to be a serious value addition. 

The inclusion of three 3.x modules is also smart, as one fo the most valuable bits in Yawning Portal was adjusting all the muscular 3.x stat blocks into 5E compatible formats.


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## Greenstone.Walker (Feb 25, 2019)

beholdsa said:


> I really hope this is set in Greyhawk and not jammed into the Realms.




Why can't it be both?


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## Remathilis (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> *yawn*
> Stripmine greyhawk i see. Rehash.



I'll take your concern seriously when Greyhawk returns the Keep on the Borderlands and the Isle of Dread back to Mystara...


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

I'm putting this adventure and the Isle of Dread into Praemal, the world of Ptolus. Please amend all existing copies of both adventures accordingly.


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I'm putting this adventure and the Isle of Dread into Praemal, the world of Ptolus. Please amend all existing copies of both adventures accordingly.




Seriously, though, Goodman Games did just release Isle of Dread for 5E, think they may have known that this was coming.


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## Volund (Feb 25, 2019)

I haven't bought any of the official 5e adventure books yet, but I'm very excited about this one. 3 months is a long time to wait. Hopefully we'll get some more page peaks soon!


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## Jester David (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> I'm not in a position to judge, but others who have the original modules said that the pages previewed so far have some significant changes from the original. Creating an actual framing device (unlike whatever was going on with the Yawning Portal) through setting up a sandbox in the Saltmarsh region seems to be a serious value addition.



Agreed. It probably doesn't take much. A few shared NPCs, a couple paragraphs suggesting how to continue things, maybe some Easter eggs and callbacks. 



Parmandur said:


> The inclusion of three 3.x modules is also smart, as one fo the most valuable bits in Yawning Portal was adjusting all the muscular 3.x stat blocks into 5E compatible formats.



It will be nice to have some higher level 3e modules updated. _Tales From the Yawning Portal_ updated some low level ones, which were the easiest to update: simpler monsters and NPCs.


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## Sword of Spirit (Feb 25, 2019)

Remathilis said:


> I'll take your concern seriously when Greyhawk returns the Keep on the Borderlands and the Isle of Dread back to Mystara...




Yeah, that’s the kind of nonsense I don’t like. I didn’t even realize they had moved the Isle of Dread to Greyhawk; I had to look it up. Well at least it didn’t stick.

Goodman Games’ Isle of Dread remake/expansion is quite good—I only have a few small complaints (like the gargantuan ape in it doing less damage with its fists than the huge ape in the Monster Manual). I highly recommend it. They provide the option to set it in Mystara or the Plane of Water (with about equal emphasis on either approach), or your own setting (or setting of choice—but no names mentioned except Mystara). Their interpretation of the DMG presentation of it being in the Plane of Water but connected to Material Plane differs quite a bit from mine (which stands to reason, since we are looking at a couple sentences in the DMG unless they got more info), so I had to do a lot of thinking to refine how to make use of some of the optional related bonus material while sticking with my own interpretation.

I’m generally more interested in Greyhawk than Mystara, but Mystara should get to keep its gems, and I’m glad that the latest WotC-approved presentation emphasizes a Mystara connection while allowing others. That’s really all I want. A respectful emphasis on the original source when providing new options, and not removing the original option from the new publications in an edition.


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> Pattern of behavior of taking items out of greyhawk to FR
> ToEE and ToH moved out of greyhawk into realms. So its very possible it will happen again.




No they didn't. Princes of the Apocalypse is barely based on ToEE beyond having Elemental Cults. (Which in ToEE were all subordinate to a Greater Temple which was actually run by Iuz and Zuggtmoy and was a scam to get more minions. The Elemental Princes were not even involved.)


----------



## EthanSental (Feb 25, 2019)

I’ll probably pick this one up as well for the sea faring portion....having just watched Pirates of the Caribbean 2 recently....struck a creative cord at the moment.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> The Tomb of Horrors was not removed from Greyhawk. From page 212 in Yawning Portal:
> 
> "In the original Tomb of Horrors, Gary Gygax suggested six possible, far-flung locations for the adventure in the Greyhawk setting - proof in itself that the tomb is liable to turn up just about anywhere. These possibilities are a follows:
> 
> ...




The Princes of Elemental Evil have been canonical for the Forgotten Realms for nigh on thirty years at this point (they were mentioned in either the Gray Box, or at some point in early 2e FR material; heck, Ed Greenwood was writing about them in _Dragon _as far back as _1981_!), so anyone who think that the setting somehow stole them in 5e really needs to set their sights much, much further back.

I love how people are automatically jumping to conclusions about setting (with obligatory accompanying wailing and gnashing of teeth) the despite there being virtually no info on this yet. Of course it's going to follow the TftYP precedent and state something like "Saltmarsh was originally set in southern Keoland in the World of Greyhawk setting, but you can place it in other settings as well; some suggested locations might be..."


----------



## Azzy (Feb 25, 2019)

FitzTheRuke said:


> I agree. It's probably going to have a side-bar or a page that talks about how to place it in a variety of settings, while the main entries will talk about Saltmarsh as an individual location.




I see this as the most likely approach.


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## Henry (Feb 25, 2019)

Remathilis said:


> I'll take your concern seriously when Greyhawk returns the Keep on the Borderlands and the Isle of Dread back to Mystara...



#TheRealForgottenRealms


----------



## Azzy (Feb 25, 2019)

Seems interesting. Might pick this up.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

I had been hoping that, in addition to material from Sea Devils, we would have gotten some of Stormwrack adapted.

I'd particularly hoped to have seen 5E updates of the darfellan and hadozee.


----------



## CleverNickName (Feb 25, 2019)

Remathilis said:


> I'll take your concern seriously when Greyhawk returns the Keep on the Borderlands and the Isle of Dread back to Mystara...



I would dearly love to see the Mystara B and X modules fully converted to 5E.  Nostalgia alone would propel money out of my wallet at record speeds...


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## R_Chance (Feb 25, 2019)

This will get my money. Not because I'm pining for old adventures but because of the nautical rules and any number of ideas / NPCs I can purloin as needed. I don't use published adventures. I do use some of them as reading material and inspiration. I skipped the Ravnica book (the setting had pretty much zero appeal for me) and the Eberron one (same reason). Now they get my money again 

As for setting nostalgia... Greyhawk and the Realms are both broad generic settings into which you can drop adventures. I bought and read the Greyhawk folio version and original Forgotten Realms boxed set. They were OK. Neither lured me away from my own setting. I found Blackmoor more interesting (as depicted in Judges Guild "First Fantasy Campaign") and I absolutely love Tekumel (Empire of the Petal Throne). One for the look at the early game (pre-publication in 1974) and the other for a really unique setting. While I appreciate the attachment many have to their first experience / setting I tend to see it all as fuel for homebrew games... well, my homebrew game / setting anyway


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## guachi (Feb 25, 2019)

If they do as poor a job on this as they did with Yawning Portal this is an easy pass.

I guess if you get this on sale it's still cheaper than buying a PDF of each of the adventures. But the Yawning Portal adaption was lazy and you didn't even get the pleasure of original font, art, and layout.

There was no "nostalgia" in any of the Yawning Portal adventures for me.


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## MNblockhead (Feb 25, 2019)

epithet said:


> Four Greyhawk modules, one Known World module, and two "any setting" modules.
> 
> Any chance this won't be shoehorned into the "Forgotten" Realms?




I'm guessing that, like Yawning Portal, there will be a call out with a snippet about the original module, and suggested locations for a number of campaign settings.  They are meant to be dropped into whatever campaign you are paying: home brew, Forgotten Realm, or Grey Hawk.  This is what I liked about Yawning Portal, if things got busy or if the party really threw me for a loop, I could easily pull out and run one of the adventures. 

I'm glad that they are publishing another book with with this format rather than just large, big-story, 1-15 level adventures that requires months of play to finish. 

The nautical rules are a nice addition. Mixing new rules like this with adventures that show them off is helpful to me. I already have some third-party nautical rules that I've been using in my campaigns, but I'm interested to compare the official rules.


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## pukunui (Feb 25, 2019)

I’m pleased to see the town of Saltmarsh is going to be included in the book. I have fond memories of the version from 3.5e’s DMG 2.

It’s a shame they couldn’t squeeze in N4 - Treasure Hunt along with some rules for level 0 characters. That would’ve been cool.

Aren’t Isle of the Abbey and U1 - Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh both for levels 1-3, though? I wonder how they’re going to work that out. TftYP didn’t have any level range overlap.

Lastly, Mike Mearls wrote Salvage Operation. According to an old Twitter post of his, it was originally meant to be a Shadowrun adventure.


----------



## Staffan (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> Its still a greyhawk set. Its  STILL the strong pattern of taking stuff from greyhawk to FR.
> 
> IT is VERY MUCH a greyhawk module




"VERY MUCH a greyhawk module"? What, pray tell, ties it so strongly to Greyhawk?

Here's the thing: for early D&D, settings weren't a thing. Greyhawk was just Gary Gygax's home campaign, and he used some material from it to flesh out AD&D. The setting wasn't even published until 1980.

Saltmarsh was clearly intended to be used in whatever setting the DM had made, with a location given if you were playing in Greyhawk. The DM was also meant to do a lot of the heavy lifting themself in actually setting up the town - there's about half a page of guidelines on what Saltmarsh should be like, but there are no maps or anything about the town itself.

Now, if this had been a module where, say, the Scarlet Brotherhood or the Circle of Eight or whatever other power groups there are in Greyhawk had been prominent, you would have had a leg to stand on, but if I can remove all the Greyhawk references from a book with five seconds and some white-out, it's not "VERY MUCH a greyhawk module".


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## LuisCarlos17f (Feb 25, 2019)

Maybe Saltmarsh are two different towns with the same name. For example Cordoba is a Spanish city in Spain, but there is other in Argentina and a third one in Mexico. 

Or you could create a new story about Saltmarsh like a "hell mouth" linked to the demiplane of the dread, ghost ships, Disney's Davy Jones with cursed mutant sailors, red steel (from the savage coast in Mystara) and a cult of Lovecraftian deep-ones. Maybe red steel was used to create a demiplane but something went wrong and now this demiplane is linked to different worlds.


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## Connorsrpg (Feb 25, 2019)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I had been hoping that, in addition to material from Sea Devils, we would have gotten some of Stormwrack adapted.
> 
> I'd particularly hoped to have seen 5E updates of the darfellan and hadozee.




This. When Wizards went to 'themed' books for 3E, those were the books I enjoyed the most. Especially these setting ones. It did not matter what cmapaign setting you were playing, if you were on the sea, then you took your copy of Stormwrack and the player options were cool.

I actually like this idea of another sea-themed book, with a mini-setting too  Some player options would be a great addition. 

And you just remminded me to add those 2 races to my extensive Realms' Races lists


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## Hussar (Feb 25, 2019)

Thinking about it - this seems like the best way to do an "environmental" book.  I loved reading the 3e Environmental books, but, at the end of the day, it was a lot of work to then turn around and take all the goodies in that book and apply it to whatever adventure I was running.  Having a series of modules all based around using the nautical rules means I can get a LOT more use out of a book like this.

And, the fact that they are opening up Dungeon Magazine means that good grief, they have sooooo many modules to pull from.  Creating more "themed" books would be an absolute snap.  It's probably harder to figure out what not to include than anything else.  

Sweet.


----------



## Dire Bare (Feb 25, 2019)

Hussar said:


> I've said this before in other threads, but, it bears repeating.  There is nothing in it for WotC to release Greyhawk in to the wilds on DMsGuild.  It's just not going to happen.  There's no upside for WotC in this scenario.  While I understand wanting it to be different, and, as a Greyhawk fan myself, I truly do understand, I also realize that the reality of the situation is that it's just not going to happen while WotC can leverage all that nostalgia for classic modules into new products.




I would disagree that WotC would gain nothing from releasing Greyhawk to the DM's Guild. Granted, I don't think we're talking huge piles of money here, but there are advantages for little work on their part. 1) it would make a small but vocal segment of the fan community happy, 2) it would likely increase the number of titles available on the site, of which WotC gets a cut in sales, 3) it's a good PR move. A good reason for them to wait is if they plan on releasing some actually Greyhawk content of their own, and are holding back on the DM's Guild to coincide with a book release. Another reason to wait is to space out DM's Guild updates to periodically draw interest back to the site. But I think they'll release Greyhawk on the site at some point, just not in the immediate future.


----------



## Bolongo (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> So, it turns out that the 3.x DMG II has a fully drawn out Saltmarsh, while the original modules left the town for the DM to draw out. I wonder if this will make use of that material as the frame setting?



Well, not verbatim at least. The version in the DMG II is set several years after the conclusion of the modules, and is stated to be much larger than it was "back in the day".


----------



## Connorsrpg (Feb 25, 2019)

Hussar said:


> Thinking about it - this seems like the best way to do an "environmental" book.  I loved reading the 3e Environmental books, but, at the end of the day, it was a lot of work to then turn around and take all the goodies in that book and apply it to whatever adventure I was running.  Having a series of modules all based around using the nautical rules means I can get a LOT more use out of a book like this.
> 
> And, the fact that they are opening up Dungeon Magazine means that good grief, they have sooooo many modules to pull from.  Creating more "themed" books would be an absolute snap.  It's probably harder to figure out what not to include than anything else.
> 
> Sweet.




Agreed 

And I prefer the several similar adventures, rather than a full adventure path. Presents more like possibilities with the chances of doing other adventures, rather than one big path to follow


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## Paul Farquhar (Feb 25, 2019)

pukunui said:


> Aren’t Isle of the Abbey and U1 - Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh both for levels 1-3, though? I wonder how they’re going to work that out. TftYP didn’t have any level range overlap.




I seem to remember that SSoS wasn't very deadly though - you could slip in the Abby between U1 and U2. Or you could do it "open world" and leave it up to the players which rumours they chase up first.


----------



## Ash Mantle (Feb 25, 2019)

Morrus said:


> It seems those who suggested that the upcoming 'nautical themed' book was based on the old _Saltmarsh t_rilogy were correct. *Ghosts of Saltmarsh* is the new book, with a release date of *May 21st, 2019*.
> View attachment 105027​




That artwork is freaking nice! 
Makes me wonder though, that if a kraken is featured so prominently on the cover, might we finally see a pact of the kraken warlock in some form in the book? We've still got some time before release for UA testing.  
I'm still disappointed that Boats and  wasn't used as the official title though 


Good to see smaller-length campaigns that your group can just drop in and play, I'm all for the months-long campaigns but sometimes you just want some inspiration for a campaign of a shorter timeframe or you just don't have the time to invest in such a long campaign. 


Actually makes me want to run a campaign where your players play characters in a drunken sea-dog's story. The framing device is that this drunk is telling your group this far-fetched, way too good to be true story and your group is actually playing how it transpires. So there's definitely an element of an unreliable narrator.


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## Ash Mantle (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> It ALWAYS matters. The more they steal from geeyhawk to shove into FR, the less likely they will either release items specifically for Greyhawk, or open the setting up so folks can release for items for it.
> 
> THATS why it matters.




Oh, is that you again, DQDesign? Here to grace us again with your presence?


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## Li Shenron (Feb 25, 2019)

I know it's kinda irrelevant for the thread but I got to say it... for my tastes 5e has the best *covers* of any edition ever


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## Kramodlog (Feb 25, 2019)

Reprints of old adventures?  Again? Such little effort is put into these things nowadays. No worries, streaming inflate sales. You can print anything and I'll sale anyway. Sigh.


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## sim-h (Feb 25, 2019)

On a related note Beadle and Grimm's (who did the Platinum Edition of Dragon Heist for $500) seem to be teasing an announcement coming tomorrow - 'Silver edition' of the new book seems likely from their emails...


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## Ash Mantle (Feb 25, 2019)

If they have the page count to spare, this book would also be the perfect book to rerelease the swashbuckler.


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## S'mon (Feb 25, 2019)

Bolongo said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about this. If all they do is update the stats, I'll be very disappointed.
> 
> I actually ran the U series recently, and found that while it had some fairly unique ideas for its time, it is now severely dated.
> 
> ...




This fits my experience when I ran them.

U1 - nice adventure. PCs massacred the poor smugglers. Only one with an actual nautical element.

U2 - shaggy dog story. PCs worked out they should talk to the lizardmen; skipped 95% of the adventure.

U3 - terrible adventure; no sane PC of listed level is going in that place. We quickly gave up.


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## Mhyr (Feb 25, 2019)

Is the 21st the release date in general or only preferred stores? (As in „I hope the preferred stores get in sooner!“)


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## Morrus (Feb 25, 2019)

Mhyr said:


> Is the 21st the release date in general or only preferred stores? (As in „I hope the preferred stores get in sooner!“)




It's Amazon's date, which is usually the later date.


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## akr71 (Feb 25, 2019)

Two things.

1) My son has been pushing for a pirate adventure for the "next campaign." Hopefully this fits the bill - fingers crossed that the sea faring rules portion of the book is worth at least a fraction of the cover price.

2) I hope that this is a peak into an updated Greyhawk setting, even if it is just the Saltmarsh area, with a short notes on how to port it into other published settings. As was said above, that was one of the nice things about TftYP. Adventuring on the high seas _should_ be relatively setting neutral.


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## jasper (Feb 25, 2019)

dwayne said:


> This was set in Greyhawk The town of Saltmarsh was. I am wondering did they steal this from the original setting to put it in the genericx realms or is it in the setting that is was set in from the start.



They would have to changed jack. I will have pull the modules but all you need is a port. A swamp about 20 miles away. I never read the Dungeon mag.


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## Jay Verkuilen (Feb 25, 2019)

Ath-kethin said:


> Nice try, but we won't be made happy just by giving us exactly what we've been demanding!




Heh. This assumes that what they're giving is indeed exactly what people want. 

The problem I have with _YP_ and likely this is that they're just fairly minimal effort ports of forty year old old modules. The older modules are great in many ways, but they have a lot of flaws or design choices that were normal back then but aren't so great now. It's like putting out a greatest hits with direct transfers from masters done years ago. Or if you want another analogy, try playing a classic FPS like Doom on a modern system without a good emulator.  

More broadly, I'm really not a fan of the "wide net" style trying to get me to buy each book where I won't use or even consider over half the content. It feels quite overtly manipulative. The last WotC book I bought was _Mordenkainen's_, which was just loaded with a lot of fluff I didn't care about and was thinner on the monsters I did. I'm fairly sure I haven't used anything from it, or, if so, minimally. A book that's got 30 pages of nautical rules which I quite likely would use a lot, but is otherwise loaded with a bunch of reprinted adventures I probably won't use isn't a good buy for me. To be clear, I've run _Saltmarsh_ at least three times and have a still running campaign that started with it! 

I'd be a lot happier if there was a cool wilderness and nautical oriented hardcover with some nifty monsters, PC builds, magic items, and some rule systems, making it a book I'd very likely bring with me, and then modern ports of these adventures available as PoD. 

So... I'm probably exiting the market.


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## jasper (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> Its still a greyhawk set. Its  STILL the strong pattern of taking stuff from greyhawk to FR.
> 
> IT is VERY MUCH a greyhawk module



WRONG WRONG WRONG. According to my penciled in notes it is two hexes from the City State of the Invicinble Warlord. And part of great Finger Bay. Next to the Great Swamp. OF JASPER'S WORLD.
In other words I think you are griping to be griping. Now quit bothering us old people. Got to your corner and roll your favorite d20 until half the edges are worn off.


----------



## Jay Verkuilen (Feb 25, 2019)

Hussar said:


> Thinking about it - this seems like the best way to do an "environmental" book.  I loved reading the 3e Environmental books, but, at the end of the day, it was a lot of work to then turn around and take all the goodies in that book and apply it to whatever adventure I was running.  Having a series of modules all based around using the nautical rules means I can get a LOT more use out of a book like this.




The problem I have with all the adventures in the book is that they're deadweight if you don't want to run them or have run them already. The nice thing about the old module format was it was super light and you could leave them at home if you didn't need their content. Hardcovers are heavy. My D&D stack is downright hard to carry now and I'm highly reluctant to add another to the pile. 

I know... I know... according to WotC's marketing plan, I "should" be buying two copies of this and having it all electronic, but... nope. 




> And, the fact that they are opening up Dungeon Magazine means that good grief, they have sooooo many modules to pull from.  Creating more "themed" books would be an absolute snap.  It's probably harder to figure out what not to include than anything else.




There are indeed some really excellent Dungeon Magazine adventures. I'd love for those to be more available.


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## SkidAce (Feb 25, 2019)

CleverNickName said:


> I would dearly love to see the Mystara B and X modules fully converted to 5E.  Nostalgia alone would propel money out of my wallet at record speeds...




Quoted for truth...


----------



## John R Davis (Feb 25, 2019)

A full update of UK 1-7 would make be very happy
Somewhat excited by GOS


----------



## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

Hussar said:


> Thinking about it - this seems like the best way to do an "environmental" book.  I loved reading the 3e Environmental books, but, at the end of the day, it was a lot of work to then turn around and take all the goodies in that book and apply it to whatever adventure I was running.  Having a series of modules all based around using the nautical rules means I can get a LOT more use out of a book like this.
> 
> And, the fact that they are opening up Dungeon Magazine means that good grief, they have sooooo many modules to pull from.  Creating more "themed" books would be an absolute snap.  It's probably harder to figure out what not to include than anything else.
> 
> Sweet.




Yeah, it really blows open the possibilities for future books.


----------



## oreofox (Feb 25, 2019)

Jay Verkuilen said:


> The problem I have with all the adventures in the book is that they're deadweight if you don't want to run them or have run them already.




Honestly, that's really all of the 5e books. I only use the adventures for possible monsters. The adventures for the most part mean nothing to me. SCAG is about 70% useless if you don't use Forgotten Realms, with the only useful bits being the cantrips and the subclasses. Volo's is about 50% useless if you don't give a damn about the lore stuff in Chapter 1. Xanathar's has a bit of dead weight with the Appendix B, and possibly Chapter 2. Mordenkainen's is about 90% pointless if you only cared about monsters (all the way in Chapter 6) and had no use for the Blood War or the other stuff about the races. Ghosts of Saltmarsh will have lots of dead weight if you have no desire for the adventures and just want the nautical rules portion.

Not calling them "Player's Handbook 2" or "Monster Manual 2" is great. Shoving rather useless information in 50% of the book when I and numerous others just want a book of monsters, is not so great and is getting rather annoying after 4.5 years. Yes, I am sure there are numerous people out there who make use of the parts I consider "useless". And making every book a $50 256 page hardback full color book gets old as well. I miss the soft cover books of 3rd edition (prior to the revision, when they decided to go with 100% full color hardcovers). But I guess with such a snail's pace of a release schedule, they need to do so for the income.


----------



## Jacob Lewis (Feb 25, 2019)

I am seeing a LOT of crossover potential here...

View attachment 105037


----------



## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

oreofox said:


> Honestly, that's really all of the 5e books. I only use the adventures for possible monsters. The adventures for the most part mean nothing to me. SCAG is about 70% useless if you don't use Forgotten Realms, with the only useful bits being the cantrips and the subclasses. Volo's is about 50% useless if you don't give a damn about the lore stuff in Chapter 1. Xanathar's has a bit of dead weight with the Appendix B, and possibly Chapter 2. Mordenkainen's is about 90% pointless if you only cared about monsters (all the way in Chapter 6) and had no use for the Blood War or the other stuff about the races. Ghosts of Saltmarsh will have lots of dead weight if you have no desire for the adventures and just want the nautical rules portion.
> 
> Not calling them "Player's Handbook 2" or "Monster Manual 2" is great. Shoving rather useless information in 50% of the book when I and numerous others just want a book of monsters, is not so great and is getting rather annoying after 4.5 years. Yes, I am sure there are numerous people out there who make use of the parts I consider "useless". And making every book a $50 256 page hardback full color book gets old as well. I miss the soft cover books of 3rd edition (prior to the revision, when they decided to go with 100% full color hardcovers). But I guess with such a snail's pace of a release schedule, they need to do so for the income.




So, to start with, we must admit that the strategy seems to be working like gangbusters for the game.

That being said, the 50% you find "rather useless" might be one of the main draw for someone else, and a third might find it all relevant. Another might have no use for any of it.

What WotC says they have found is that by doing their releases this way, they sell more books. Not just, "we need to pad this to make up numbers," but just selling more overall books than they used to, with less overhead. If people stop buying them, things will change. But as it is, this works better.


----------



## guachi (Feb 25, 2019)

S'mon said:


> This fits my experience when I ran them.
> 
> U1 - nice adventure. PCs massacred the poor smugglers. Only one with an actual nautical element.
> 
> ...




My basic experience as well. U1 is great but I don't think most groups will find U2 or U3 enjoyable.

U1 is a great two-session adventure (4 hour sessions) to start players off. My version of it has about 1500 xp in part one, enough to make a party level 2 (and hand wave if they aren't).

Run it three times in 5e.

The other adventures I gave a pass on after trying to run them.

I put Saltmarsh in Mystara, Karameikos to be specific. The Sinister Secret of Sulescu, set on the cost of Karameikos in the sleepy fishing village of Sulescu


----------



## epithet (Feb 25, 2019)

pukunui said:


> ...
> Lastly, Mike Mearls wrote Salvage Operation. According to an old Twitter post of his, it was originally meant to be a Shadowrun adventure.



They’ll probably open Shadowrun as a setting on the DM’s Guild before they let people offer content for Greyhawk.


----------



## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

pukunui said:


> I’m pleased to see the town of Saltmarsh is going to be included in the book. I have fond memories of the version from 3.5e’s DMG 2.
> 
> It’s a shame they couldn’t squeeze in N4 - Treasure Hunt along with some rules for level 0 characters. That would’ve been cool.
> 
> ...




Based on what the book description states, this looks to be more a freewheeling location-based sandbox, with the various modules being more geographic than linear like an AP.

Better organized than TftTP, which while great, was just a grabbag of stuff.


----------



## dwayne (Feb 25, 2019)

jasper said:


> WRONG WRONG WRONG. According to my penciled in notes it is two hexes from the City State of the Invicinble Warlord. And part of great Finger Bay. Next to the Great Swamp. OF JASPER'S WORLD.
> In other words I think you are griping to be griping. Now quit bothering us old people. Got to your corner and roll your favorite d20 until half the edges are worn off.




funny i gave links to the facts about the adventure being in greyhawk and here you say it is not. But like most facts don't matter to you people now days.


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

D&D Beyond just posted an interview with Kate Welch about this book, let the hype begin:

https://youtu.be/GajoKmh9-68


----------



## Remathilis (Feb 25, 2019)

From the D&D Facebook page:



> You know what your fantasy world needs right about now? An adventure told on the high seas, a story of a port town with sinister secrets, an archipelago full of undead mysteries, and a 256-page book from D&D to put all that at your fingertips. Ghosts of Saltmarsh adapts the U1-3 adventures from the 80s to a full campaign for use with fifth edition D&D including magic items, monsters, and rules on running your own ship battles and economy. Dungeon Masters can easily place Saltmarsh on any coast of any world you can imagine, including the Sword Coast, Eberron or even *Greyhawk where these adventures were originally set.* Ghosts of Saltmarsh releases everywhere on May 21. Grab the special alternate cover depicting a snarling sahuagin by N.C. Winters is available only in game stores on May 21.
> #GhostofSaltmarsh #DungeonsandDragons #DnD
> http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/ghosts-saltmarsh




Emphasis mine.


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

So, in the video, Kate confirms that the Seafaring UA rules are going to he in this book, and the vehicle rules in general will be in "various products this year."

There is apparently a large amount of material for randomly generating encounters, NPCs and such for seafaring scenarios, beyond the Saltmarsh based adventures. Also, all 7 adventures will be based around Saltmarsh as the centerpiece, so some adaptation will have occurred: she acknowledges the Greyhawk background, but says that they have made Saltmarsh and environs a generic mini-settingnfornplug and play purposes.


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## vpuigdoller (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> So, in the video, Kate confirms that the Seafaring UA rules are going to he in this book, and the vehicle rules in general will be in "various products this year."
> 
> There is apparently a large amount of material for randomly generating encounters, NPCs and such for seafaring scenarios, beyond the Saltmarsh based adventures. Also, all 7 adventures will be based around Saltmarsh as the centerpiece, so some adaptation will have occurred: she acknowledges the Greyhawk background, but says that they have made Saltmarsh and environs a generic mini-settingnfornplug and play purposes.




Yah I catched the part about vehicle rules as well.  I wonder if airships or spelljammers are not far outside the realm of possibilities.


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## vpuigdoller (Feb 25, 2019)

She also mentions in the video that they had a lot of success with Tales from the Yawning Portal so that's that.


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## Paul Farquhar (Feb 25, 2019)

vpuigdoller said:


> Yah I catched the part about vehicle rules as well.  I wonder if airships or spelljammers are not far outside the realm of possibilities.




Their is supposed to be an Eberron hardback, so I guess that would have airship rules (remember the 3rd dimension - Don't be like Khan!)


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## Morrus (Feb 25, 2019)

PR just dropped in my inbox. Alternate cover! No advance release for WPN stores! (all updated above in the OP).


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## vpuigdoller (Feb 25, 2019)

Morrus said:


> PR just dropped in my inbox. Alternate cover! No advance release for WPN stores! (all updated above in the OP).
> 
> View attachment 105044




Oh, that is very cool looking!!!!


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## Umbran (Feb 25, 2019)

dwayne said:


> funny i gave links to the facts about the adventure being in greyhawk and here you say it is not.




Um, no.

He's saying that he put the module on another world.  It isn't like doing that is hard.  

If you want facts - the fact that the only thing really forcing U1 to be in Greyhawk are place names, IIRC.  The adventure does not lean on Greyhawk-specific tropes or metaplot.   It was set in Greyhawk not because it *needs* to be there for the adventure to function, but because that's the only place they were setting adventures in 1981, when U1 was published.   

The facts, really, are that the original adventure is super-duper-easy to set wherever you want.  If your setting has oceans and the monster races that appear, you can probably use U1 in it.

Before you complain about the new version of it, it wold be really great if you could confirm that this aspect of it has changed.  If you cannot just as easily plop it back into Greyhawk, then you might have a legitimate beef.  But until you know that for certain, it seems premature to raise a stink over it.


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## Aiden_Keller_ (Feb 25, 2019)

"If nautical nonsense be something you wish...."


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## nicolas.carrillos (Feb 25, 2019)

The Facebook announcement just published says “Dungeon Masters can easily place Saltmarsh on any coast of any world you can imagine, including the Sword Coast, Eberron or even Greyhawk where these adventures were originally set.” My guess is that the default location is Greyhawk -they even mentioned the Azure Coast. Happily for me, conversion guidelines for my favorite setting -Eberron- are likely to be provided


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## qstor (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> Also, all 7 adventures will be based around Saltmarsh as the centerpiece, so some adaptation will have occurred: she acknowledges the Greyhawk background, but says that they have made Saltmarsh and environs a generic mini-setting for plug and play purposes.




I like a lot of the other posters are carving for a Greyhawk setting book but the quote above reiterates the fact that largely (apart from Eberron, the Realms, Dark Sun and Ravnica) WotC wants all D&D books to be used in any setting so NO setting books. This has been the tone since 4e.


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## Augreth (Feb 25, 2019)

*Azure Sea*

From the D&D product web page for Ghosts of Saltmarsh:
”[FONT=&amp]Nestled on the coast of the Azure Sea is Saltmarsh, a sleepy fishing village that sits on the precipice of destruction.”

Can someone please tell me where the heck that Azure Sea is supposed to be in the Realms? 

[/FONT]http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/ghosts-saltmarsh


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

qstor said:


> I like a lot of the other posters are carving for a Greyhawk setting book but the quote above reiterates the fact that largely (apart from Eberron, the Realms, Dark Sun and Ravnica) WotC wants all D&D books to be used in any setting so NO setting books. This has been the tone since 4e.




They have released the SCAG and Ravnica as setting books, have an Eberron setting playtedt going, and Mearls said within the last month that he is looking for an angle to get Greyhawk published in 5E. No need to be hasty.


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## qstor (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> Mearls said within the last month that he is looking for an angle to get Greyhawk published in 5E. No need to be hasty.




I missed that. Thanks Where did he say it?


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

qstor said:


> I missed that. Thanks Where did he say it?




In an interview for Dragon Talk, he went into the history of Greyhawk, and discussed his desirrnto do more with it in the future: in hindsight, he was probably doing the interview partly as a promo for this book. More in the following video:

https://youtu.be/_o-_4xEJ2PE


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## Mistwell (Feb 25, 2019)

I am a huge Greyhawk fan, but I honestly don't care what setting this is supposed to be set in. There is nothing really setting specific about these adventures. It's not like you're fighting Iuz. It's mostly just a friggen isolated town and swamp which could be any backwater location in any setting.  There are iconic things about Greyhawk but I never considered the U-series to be one of those things. It's a great series, but it never really had a particularly unique "Greyhawkian" flavor or feel to it.


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## pukunui (Feb 25, 2019)

Man, I thought the previous alternate covers were ugly, but this one really takes the cake! *shivers*

I really like the regular cover though.


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## generic (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> It ALWAYS matters. The more they steal from geeyhawk to shove into FR, the less likely they will either release items specifically for Greyhawk, or open the setting up so folks can release for items for it.
> 
> THATS why it matters.




Sure, but (IMNSHO), WotC is never, ever going to release a Greyhawk book.  The setting simply isn't "different" enough to draw the attention of new or casual players.

Note: I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this one.


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## S'mon (Feb 25, 2019)

Umbran said:


> The adventure does not lean on Greyhawk-specific tropes or metaplot.   It was set in Greyhawk not because it *needs* to be there for the adventure to function, but because that's the only place they were setting adventures in 1981, when U1 was published.




It was actually a pretty poor fit for its given location in Greyhawk - a 14th century southern English fishing village in an area with climate closer to Biloxi, Mississippi. I blame the British authors and their thinking everywhere is like England.


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## oreofox (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> So, to start with, we must admit that the strategy seems to be working like gangbusters for the game.
> 
> That being said, the 50% you find "rather useless" might be one of the main draw for someone else, and a third might find it all relevant. Another might have no use for any of it.
> 
> What WotC says they have found is that by doing their releases this way, they sell more books. Not just, "we need to pad this to make up numbers," but just selling more overall books than they used to, with less overhead. If people stop buying them, things will change. But as it is, this works better.




I am not saying what they are doing is terrible business, and no one finds them 100% useful. That would be an extremely dumb statement. I am saying a good 50% or more of each book outside of the core 3 are absolutely useless, TO ME. WotC obviously seems to think it works, and apparently it is. And this is why I am thankful for Amazon's cheaper prices because I would never pay $50+ for a book that has so much useless parts. But hey, it seems to be working just fine for WotC, and I don't see them straying from this format in any future book. There's no reason, sales wise.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

If WotC believes it's got the rights to republish Dungeon adventures (although maybe they reached out to all of these creators individually and renegotiated), that's pretty exciting. I'd love to see Dragon and, the real holy grail, Imagine magazine content republished.

Imagine, from TSR UK, was definitely second-best to Dragon from the era, but it had its own adventures, its own city setting and a distinctly British fantasy vibe that I love and would love to see brought back into the fold.


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## jasper (Feb 25, 2019)

dwayne said:


> funny i gave links to the facts about the adventure being in greyhawk and here you say it is not. But like most facts don't matter to you people now days.



geee, The facts back then was. Few people owned the Greyhawk maps. So we went to dwayne's house. Look at the map he had pinned to the back of the door of his room. (he was covering the holes in door from where we played darts). So Saltmarsh is hex U4/123. We saw it was by a body of water and near a swamp. We then went home and made our own worlds.  
Greyhawk we don't need no stinking Greyhawk. Only rich kids could afford all modules and add ons. 
Those were the facts back then.


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

oreofox said:


> I am not saying what they are doing is terrible business, and no one finds them 100% useful. That would be an extremely dumb statement. I am saying a good 50% or more of each book outside of the core 3 are absolutely useless, TO ME. WotC obviously seems to think it works, and apparently it is. And this is why I am thankful for Amazon's cheaper prices because I would never pay $50+ for a book that has so much useless parts. But hey, it seems to be working just fine for WotC, and I don't see them straying from this format in any future book. There's no reason, sales wise.




I've found XGtE, Volo's and MToF pretty great across the board. The parts I see some complain about, like the great name tables, are parts I go back to over and over.


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## Jester David (Feb 25, 2019)

Looks like this book has an alternate cover. The first adventure with one rather than just sourcebooks. 
The alternate covers have long since ceased to be interesting, and now feel like a grab to get people to buy a second “non collector’s” version. It looks cool but I’ll probably pass on the fancy version.


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## guachi (Feb 25, 2019)

Were all of the adventures that are being republished originally set in Greyhawk?


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

guachi said:


> Were all of the adventures that are being republished originally set in Greyhawk?




No: 4 Greyhawk modules, 1 Mystarra module, and 2 setting generic.


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## Parmandur (Feb 25, 2019)

Jester David said:


> Looks like this book has an alternate cover. The first adventure with one rather than just sourcebooks.
> The alternate covers have long since ceased to be interesting, and now feel like a grab to get people to buy a second “non collector’s” version. It looks cool but I’ll probably pass on the fancy version.




I've never gone for the alternate covers at all, bit I think the idea is less "get people to buy twice" and more "get people to buy local rather than on Amazon." Makes sense to me as a small retailer friendly move on WotC part.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> I've never gone for the alternate covers at all, bit I think the idea is less "get people to buy twice" and more "get people to buy local rather than on Amazon." Makes sense to me as a small retailer friendly move on WotC part.



Yeah, the boxed set with alternate covers was gorgeous. If I had a bit more cash in my pocket, those would be the core books I would have gotten and used. As it was, it was easier and cheaper to get the regular stuff via Amazon, so I lost out, as was intended by WotC.


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## Markh3rd (Feb 25, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> I've never gone for the alternate covers at all, bit I think the idea is less "get people to buy twice" and more "get people to buy local rather than on Amazon." Makes sense to me as a small retailer friendly move on WotC part.




Agreed. I get it to help out my local store and the side benefit is that it’s a collectible. Brick and Mortar stores need that income and I’m glad to help since I can play there with friends and meet new people. Plus the stores are promoting the hobby, Amazon could care less lol.


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## dave2008 (Feb 25, 2019)

dwayne said:


> funny i gave links to the facts about the adventure being in greyhawk and here you say it is not. But like most facts don't matter to you people now days.




Perhaps you missed the sarcasm.  He was saying that in truth the Saltmarsh, like many of the early modules is designed more for "your world" than for a particular setting.  Sure over the years they have become fixtures of a given setting, but was that how they were intended?  Not really


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## Jeff Carpenter (Feb 25, 2019)

I own every Dungeon Magazine and most of the adventures are not worth a rehash. But Bryce over at tenfootpole.org sums it up better than me. Poor guy had to read all those old adventures and write a review on each.

https://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?cat=5


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## Hussar (Feb 25, 2019)

Jeff Carpenter said:


> I own every Dungeon Magazine and most of the adventures are not worth a rehash. But Bryce over at tenfootpole.org sums it up better than me. Poor guy had to read all those old adventures and write a review on each.
> 
> https://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?cat=5




Well, Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap) probably applies.  But, considering there's over a thousand adventures in Dungeon, that still leaves us with 100 good adventures.


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## dave2008 (Feb 25, 2019)

Carmen Sbordone said:


> It ALWAYS matters. The more they steal from geeyhawk to shove into FR, the less likely they will either release items specifically for Greyhawk, or open the setting up so folks can release for items for it.
> 
> THATS why it matters.




Well lucky for you they are not stealing form Greyhawk!  The offical product page places it in the Azure Sea which is in...Greyhawk!  

http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/ghosts-saltmarsh


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## Mistwell (Feb 25, 2019)

They should make the primary cover Greyhawk, and the alternative cover FR. Just to be chaotic neutral for a change.


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## aco175 (Feb 25, 2019)

dave2008 said:


> Well lucky for you they are not stealing form Greyhawk!  The offical product page places it in the Azure Sea which is in...Greyhawk!
> 
> http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/ghosts-saltmarsh




Is that south of Waterdeep?


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## oreofox (Feb 26, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> I've found XGtE, Volo's and MToF pretty great across the board. The parts I see some complain about, like the great name tables, are parts I go back to over and over.




All the monster lore from Mordenkainen's and Volo's guides are useless to me. I don't run Forgotten Realms, so that's about 50% or more just wasted space to me. The name tables in Xanathar's I have no real opinion on. I know there are people out there that enjoyed and probably use the monster and race lore of those books, and glad they got more use of the entire book.


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## Demetrios1453 (Feb 26, 2019)

As expected, the over-wrought worrying by some posters here fearing that Greyhawk would be overlooked was completely unfounded.

I'm curious where they will suggest placement in other settings though...


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## Parmandur (Feb 26, 2019)

oreofox said:


> All the monster lore from Mordenkainen's and Volo's guides are useless to me. I don't run Forgotten Realms, so that's about 50% or more just wasted space to me. The name tables in Xanathar's I have no real opinion on. I know there are people out there that enjoyed and probably use the monster and race lore of those books, and glad they got more use of the entire book.




Nothing in the monster loree for Volo's or Mordenkainen's is related in any way to the Forgotten Realms? The lore is pretty fun, too.


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## cmad1977 (Feb 26, 2019)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> I'm putting this adventure and the Isle of Dread into Praemal, the world of Ptolus. Please amend all existing copies of both adventures accordingly.




NO!!  Give them back!!


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## Parmandur (Feb 26, 2019)

Demetrios1453 said:


> As expected, the over-wrought worrying by some posters here fearing that Greyhawk would be overlooked was completely unfounded.
> 
> I'm curious where they will suggest placement in other settings though...




For the FR, I'd reckon the Sword Coast, or the western part of the Sea of Fallen Stars somewhere.


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## Demetrios1453 (Feb 26, 2019)

oreofox said:


> All the monster lore from Mordenkainen's and Volo's guides are useless to me. I don't run Forgotten Realms, so that's about 50% or more just wasted space to me. The name tables in Xanathar's I have no real opinion on. I know there are people out there that enjoyed and probably use the monster and race lore of those books, and glad they got more use of the entire book.




Virtually none of the lore in those books is FR-specific; the only part that had even a minor Realms influence would be the giants section in VGtM. The rest of it is pretty setting-neutral, and there are sidebars detailing how various settings differ from or interpret the lore given (and differences for the Forgotten Realms are in those sidebars, so it's not the default being presented in the books).  Heck, some sections, such as the gnoll section in VGtM and the elf section in MToF, flat-out _contradict_ established FR lore.

Oh, and you thought a book named after a famous Greyhawk character would somehow be focused on the Forgotten Realms?


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## Demetrios1453 (Feb 26, 2019)

Watching the Kate Welch video makes it sound like the non-adventure section of the book is going to be pretty substantial. I'm hoping for a relatively robust bestiary section myself...

For those familiar with the adventures in question, how many pages do they run, and what would be a likely page count for them collectively in this book?


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## cmad1977 (Feb 26, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> No: 4 Greyhawk modules, 1 Mystarra module, and 2 setting generic.




Which basically means 7 generic fantasy adventures.


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## cmad1977 (Feb 26, 2019)

aco175 said:


> Is that south of Waterdeep?




Pretty sure it’s near Solace.


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## Demetrios1453 (Feb 26, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> For the FR, I'd reckon the Sword Coast, or the western part of the Sea of Fallen Stars somewhere.




Since, from what I've heard, the Sea Princes are mentioned in one of the U adventures, it would presumably need to be near one of the two sets of Pirate Isles in the Realms, so that would need to be the southern Sword Coast, or even Amn or Tethyr, for the Sword Coast group; or it would likely be Sembia, Turmish, Impiltur, or Aglarond if it's the Sea of Fallen Stars group...


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## Aaron L (Feb 26, 2019)

dwayne said:


> This was set in Greyhawk The town of Saltmarsh was. I am wondering did they steal this from the original setting to put it in the genericx realms or is it in the setting that is was set in from the start.




Given how they transplanted Acererak and Elemental Evil to Fearun, ham-fistedly described ripping Castle Greyhawk from Oerth to float around from world to world, and later gave Evermeet the same shabby treatment being ripped it from Faerun and having it "cast adrift in the planes" as a mystic homeland for all Elves no matter what world they're from (barf), I'm sure the default of these adventures will be Toril.

(As well as how they've tried to shoehorn _the Weave_ into the PHB, even though the relationship between _the Weave_ and _Mystra_ was a defining element of the Forgotten Realms that made the setting unique and interesting, and made all Elves 6+ feet tall like 'Realms Elves as part of the Realmsification of all D&D settings.  I like the 'Realms, but c'mon.  Making these things just Generic D&D cheapens and robs the setting of its distinctiveness.)


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## EthanSental (Feb 26, 2019)

And ordered, regular cover for me.  Never played the adventures mentioned in the book so nice to have some options to use them in my campaign.


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## Dexamalion (Feb 26, 2019)

dave2008 said:


> So does this mean we are "officially" getting Greyhawk or is the Saltmarsh being ported to Faerun?




As per the video, it's designed to be played anywhere.


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## Quickleaf (Feb 26, 2019)

Demetrios1453 said:


> Watching the Kate Welch video makes it sound like the non-adventure section of the book is going to be pretty substantial. I'm hoping for a relatively robust bestiary section myself...
> 
> For those familiar with the adventures in question, how many pages do they run, and what would be a likely page count for them collectively in this book?




My page counts may not be perfectly right (DUNGEON ads, very different text formats, etc.) but are in the right ballpark...

U1 - Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh 30 pages
U2 - Danger at Dunwater 30 pages
U3 - The Final Enemy 46 pages
Isle of the Abbey (DUNGEON #34) 12 pages... maybe less from ads
Salvage Operation (DUNGEON #123) 9 pages
Tammeraut’s Fate (DUNGEON #106) 29 pages... a bit bloated from 3e stat blocks
The Styes (DUNGEON #121) 23 pages

So roughly 179 pages altogether.


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## Demetrios1453 (Feb 26, 2019)

Quickleaf said:


> My page counts may not be perfectly right (DUNGEON ads, very different text formats, etc.) but are in the right ballpark...
> 
> U1 - Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh 30 pages
> U2 - Danger at Dunwater 30 pages
> ...




So given a likely page count of 224 - 256, somewhere around 50 -75 pages for the base setting and for rules and bestiary. Not too shabby, although I would always like to have more room for monsters!


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## SkidAce (Feb 26, 2019)

cmad1977 said:


> Which basically means 7 generic fantasy adventures.




Huzzah!


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## FitzTheRuke (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm a little disappointed with my store getting the books later than the big boxes, what with all the games we run to keep our WPN scores up. Still, it's better than the last two books shipping fiasco (I hope)!


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Can anyone shed any light on why WotC is so secretive as to what their releasing any given year for 5E?  Editions past you knew what was coming well in advanced.  Now they give us minimal bits and pieces for one product, and then announce something after the first is released with little detail.  I dont see why they dont come out at the beginning of the year saying we are planning to release this?


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## Azzy (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Can anyone shed any light on why WotC is so secretive as to what their releasing any given year for 5E?  Editions past you knew what was coming well in advanced.  Now they give us minimal bits and pieces for one product, and then announce something after the first is released with little detail.  I dont see why they dont come out at the beginning of the year saying we are planning to release this?




Titilation.


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## Herosmith14 (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Can anyone shed any light on why WotC is so secretive as to what their releasing any given year for 5E?  Editions past you knew what was coming well in advanced.  Now they give us minimal bits and pieces for one product, and then announce something after the first is released with little detail.  I dont see why they dont come out at the beginning of the year saying we are planning to release this?




I could be completely off with this, but I imagine it's the same reason DDB doesn't give release dates; setbacks happen, plans change, etc. They're quiet with their roadmap so as to not get crucified if they don't make a deadline.


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## R_Chance (Feb 26, 2019)

Aaron L said:


> Given how they transplanted Acererak and Elemental Evil to Fearun, ham-fistedly described ripping Castle Greyhawk from Oerth to float around from world to world, and later gave Evermeet the same shabby treatment being ripped it from Faerun and having it "cast adrift in the planes" as a mystic homeland for all Elves no matter what world they're from (barf), I'm sure the default of these adventures will be Toril.
> 
> (As well as how they've tried to shoehorn _the Weave_ into the PHB, even though the relationship between _the Weave_ and _Mystra_ was a defining element of the Forgotten Realms that made the setting unique and interesting, and made all Elves 6+ feet tall like 'Realms Elves as part of the Realmsification of all D&D settings.  I like the 'Realms, but c'mon.  Making these things just Generic D&D cheapens and robs the setting of its distinctiveness.)




That ship has already sailed, about 50 posts back. And you're in luck. The discussion about that has pretty much subsided. The default setting for the U series adventures in the book is (according to the product page) the Azure Coast in Greyhawk. They will give suggestions for other settings as well, although given how generic the background is for these the difficulty of porting it to most settings / homebrew is about... zero.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Herosmith14 said:


> I could be completely off with this, but I imagine it's the same reason DDB doesn't give release dates; setbacks happen, plans change, etc. They're quiet with their roadmap so as to not get crucified if they don't make a deadline.




I suppose you could be right but I'd assume that most gamers fall into a few categories of purchasers, most Id think would be forgiving if something was cancelled or pushed back.  Compared to 2E thru 4E, 5E is releasing substatially less product, not counting DMs Guild, so maybe they know something marketing wise as to why their so tight lipped. I dont watch game live streams or pod casts, or twitter/FB, so perhaps I miss alot of info.


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## Azzy (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> I suppose you could be right but I'd assume that most gamers fall into a few categories of purchasers, *most Id think would be forgiving if something was cancelled or pushed back*.




Oh, sweet summer child... Gamers tend not to be reasonable or forgiving (a little more time on these boards will illustrate that). 



> Compared to 2E thru 4E, 5E is releasing substatially less product, not counting DMs Guild, so maybe they know something marketing wise as to why their so tight lipped. I dont watch game live streams or pod casts, or twitter/FB, so perhaps I miss alot of info.




It, from my understanding, is to build up anticipation and excitement of the next product without further products detracting from that. It's a slow hype train.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Azzy said:


> Oh, sweet summer child... Gamers tend not to be reasonable or forgiving (a little more time on these boards will illustrate that).




Id reckon that 90% of people who said they felt scammed or that their old books were obsolete and would never switch from edition x to edition y most likely did to one extent or another.  Geez I could imagine playing any edition of D&D other than 5E these days, but I still use lots of my old books.  Seems like a petty thing to get upset about, a book not coming out or getting released late.  

Are there any statistics for whose currently playing what edition of D&D these days?


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## Azzy (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Id reckon that 90% of people who said they felt scammed or that their old books were obsolete and would never switch from edition x to edition y most likely did to one extent or another.  Geez I could imagine playing any edition of D&D other than 5E these days, but I still use lots of my old books.  Seems like a petty thing to get upset about, a book not coming out or getting released late.
> 
> Are there any statistics for whose currently playing what edition of D&D these days?




No hard stats for the entire community, but I think there are are some stats on what's being played online in certain places (though I don't know where).


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## MonsterEnvy (Feb 26, 2019)

Aaron L said:


> Given how they transplanted Acererak and Elemental Evil to Fearun, ham-fistedly described ripping Castle Greyhawk from Oerth to float around from world to world, and later gave Evermeet the same shabby treatment being ripped it from Faerun and having it "cast adrift in the planes" as a mystic homeland for all Elves no matter what world they're from (barf), I'm sure the default of these adventures will be Toril.
> 
> (As well as how they've tried to shoehorn _the Weave_ into the PHB, even though the relationship between _the Weave_ and _Mystra_ was a defining element of the Forgotten Realms that made the setting unique and interesting, and made all Elves 6+ feet tall like 'Realms Elves as part of the Realmsification of all D&D settings.  I like the 'Realms, but c'mon.  Making these things just Generic D&D cheapens and robs the setting of its distinctiveness.)




Acererak has been a world traveler since 2e and Elemental Evil has always been setting generic. (The ToEE is not, but it honestly has little to do with the actual forces of Elemental Evil like the Princes.) 

When did Castle Greyhawk get moved? 

Also the answer is already stated this stuff is in Greyhawk by default.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Azzy said:


> No hard stats for the entire community, but I think there are are some stats on what's being played online in certain places (though I don't know where).




Id be curious to see what the statistics look like for D&D through the years.  For example how many units shipped per edition compared to how many peole are playing which edition today.  I'm sure its impossible data to compile but I wonder if theres merit to D&D is bigger than ever when compared to inflation and population increase.  No doubt its more accessible but bigger who knows?


----------



## Parmandur (Feb 26, 2019)

Azzy said:


> Oh, sweet summer child... Gamers tend not to be reasonable or forgiving (a little more time on these boards will illustrate that).
> 
> 
> 
> It, from my understanding, is to build up anticipation and excitement of the next product without further products detracting from that. It's a slow hype train.




I recall Mearls once answered this very question by saying that a few months of concentrated hype were the best way to keep people engaged and excited to buy each book sequentially. Also, plans change, best not to get tied down.


----------



## Staffan (Feb 26, 2019)

cmad1977 said:


> Pretty sure it’s near Solace.



I heard it was just outside Balic.


----------



## Staffan (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Can anyone shed any light on why WotC is so secretive as to what their releasing any given year for 5E?  Editions past you knew what was coming well in advanced.  Now they give us minimal bits and pieces for one product, and then announce something after the first is released with little detail.  I dont see why they dont come out at the beginning of the year saying we are planning to release this?



As far as I can tell, because of two reasons:

1. Bleep happens. In the early days of 5e (damn, it feels weird to say that), someone got their hands on a solicitation meant for retailers that had an Adventurer's Handbook hardback in it, meant for concurrent release with Princes of the Apocalypse. That never materialized in that form - instead we got the Elemental Evil Player's Companion released as a free PDF with POD options on DM's Guild. When asked why it was cancelled, the devs said "That was never announced, and we can't cancel something we haven't announced." They've been distinctly more cagey about future releases since. Given the really late release date, my guess is that something has held up the release of this, and you can imagine what these boards would have looked like if we had been told about a March release and then been informed that no, it's going to be released in May instead.

2. Hype. Their marketing team has shown that it's hard to maintain interest in a future product for months upon months, so nowadays they announce product about three months in advance, with maybe a month or two of small teasers before that.


----------



## Azzy (Feb 26, 2019)

Staffan said:


> I heard it was just outside Balic.




I thought it was Northeast of Specularum.


----------



## Hussar (Feb 26, 2019)

Staffan said:


> As far as I can tell, because of two reasons:
> 
> 1. Bleep happens. In the early days of 5e (damn, it feels weird to say that), someone got their hands on a solicitation meant for retailers that had an Adventurer's Handbook hardback in it, meant for concurrent release with Princes of the Apocalypse. That never materialized in that form - instead we got the Elemental Evil Player's Companion released as a free PDF with POD options on DM's Guild. When asked why it was cancelled, the devs said "That was never announced, and we can't cancel something we haven't announced." They've been distinctly more cagey about future releases since. Given the really late release date, my guess is that something has held up the release of this, and you can imagine what these boards would have looked like if we had been told about a March release and then been informed that no, it's going to be released in May instead.
> 
> 2. Hype. Their marketing team has shown that it's hard to maintain interest in a future product for months upon months, so nowadays they announce product about three months in advance, with maybe a month or two of small teasers before that.




Pretty much all of this.  

The level of vitriol that gets tossed WotC's way if they are anything but 100% accurate with every prediction is mind blowing.  Every missed deadline would be yet more people crowing from the rooftops that 5e is DOOOOMMMED.   

Much, MUCH better this way.


----------



## dave2008 (Feb 26, 2019)

Demetrios1453 said:


> So given a likely page count of 224 - 256, somewhere around 50 -75 pages for the base setting and for rules and bestiary. Not too shabby, although I would always like to have more room for monsters!




I believe it has already been confirmed to be 256 pages


----------



## EthanSental (Feb 26, 2019)

I’m not a big fan of monsters that come out in the 3rd or 4th book of monster cause like in pathfinder and even older editions of D&D, these monsters are less used, fringe and weren’t popular or good enough to make it into the earlier books.  I am glad that WoTC is doing them like this though and have them tied to the adventure/book, handful of monsters, naval stuff...mix of everything instead of a 100% book of monsters in a bestiary that only has 5% that I’ll use.....new format works for me as a DM and as an enthusiast!


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

EthanSental said:


> I’m not a big fan of monsters that come out in the 3rd or 4th book of monster cause like in pathfinder and even older editions of D&D, these monsters are less used, fringe and weren’t popular or good enough to make it into the earlier books.  I am glad that WoTC is doing them like this though and have them tied to the adventure/book, handful of monsters, naval stuff...mix of everything instead of a 100% book of monsters in a bestiary that only has 5% that I’ll use.....new format works for me as a DM and as an enthusiast!




I really liked the loose leaf 2E Monstrous Compendiums. I still have all of them in one huge binder.  I really miss some of the detail thats since been omitted from 3E-5E, especially the ecology & habitat entries.  The Spelljammer MC had some cool monsters, the one that acted like Alien from the movie was great.  Killed more than a few PCs with that one.  Think I even took out a whole party.


----------



## Paul Farquhar (Feb 26, 2019)

qstor said:


> I like a lot of the other posters are carving for a Greyhawk setting book




I suspect it's more like a very small number of posters making a lot of noise...


(Quite frankly, there is good reason FR overtook Greyhawk in popularity).


----------



## Paul Farquhar (Feb 26, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> For the FR, I'd reckon the Sword Coast, or the western part of the Sea of Fallen Stars somewhere.




I would guess both.


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Paul Farquhar said:


> I suspect it's more like a very small number of posters making a lot of noise...
> 
> 
> (Quite frankly, there is good reason FR overtook Greyhawk in popularity).




Its all the Drows fault.  But honestly I dont see what edition you are playing has any bearing on what setting you play your campaign in.  If you like Greyhawk, Mystara, Birthright or Darksun, chances are you have a some old source material.  Doesnt take much to do some conversion or ad hoc on the fly.  Im currently running an Undermountain campaign and after reading about 3 rooms from the new DotMM, I stopped reading and just made up my own adventure as I go along.  Heck except for character advancement I dont even know what edition were playing anymore, nor do I care or bother to look up rules.  I just make sure Im fair and keep the game moving along.  My players dont seem to mind.


----------



## oreofox (Feb 26, 2019)

Paul Farquhar said:


> I suspect it's more like a very small number of posters making a lot of noise...
> 
> 
> (Quite frankly, there is good reason FR overtook Greyhawk in popularity).




That's what happens when you place practically every video game in FR. And I saw more FR novels than nearly any other setting, except maybe Dragonlance. And that setting went downhill after Dragons of Summer Flame.

 [MENTION=6801060]Demetrios1453[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6780330]Parmandur[/MENTION] : I didn't read any of the monster lore because as I stated, they were useless to me as I have my own lore for my own setting. And I figured they were FR focused since EVERY other book released has been (adventures minus Strahd, SCAG). Giving them names of Greyhawk characters really means nothing. So I made a mistake, but like I said, I didn't read the lore because it's rather useless to me. It's good to know it isn't FR focused, though.


----------



## Schmoe (Feb 26, 2019)

I love that they are tapping into old Dungeon adventures.  That magazine was one of the highlights of the 3e era to me.  There are so many great adventures to be found in it's pages.  The Styes is a particularly awesome choice.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

oreofox said:


> That's what happens when you place practically every video game in FR...




To me thats comparing different media, a TTRPG vs. a video game vs. a movie or novel isnt the same.  For the most part a movie, novel or video game are linear, you have no control where it goes or how it ends, (unless its the 80s clue movie or a choose your own adventure).  With a TTRPG its a collective story, where you can control where its set, the story and the ending.


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

oreofox said:


> That's what happens when you place practically every video game in FR...




To me thats comparing different media, a TTRPG vs. a video game vs. a movie or novel isnt the same.  For the most part a movie, novel or video game are linear, you have no control where it goes or how it ends, (unless its the 80s clue movie or a choose your own adventure).  With a TTRPG its a collective story, where you can control where its set, the story and the ending.


----------



## werecorpse (Feb 26, 2019)

The Styes is set in a port town. I wonder if it will be in Saltmarsh or if the book will give two towns along the coast?

also is the order of adventures as stated ? 
Or will it be 
U1
isle of abbey
U2 
etc?


----------



## 77IM (Feb 26, 2019)

Morrus said:


> No advance release for WPN stores!




Wait, what?!?!? Is this a new policy going forward, or just a one-off for this release? To me this seems like the bigger news item.


----------



## Morrus (Feb 26, 2019)

77IM said:


> Wait, what?!?!? Is this a new policy going forward, or just a one-off for this release?




I don’t know. I’m just reading the same PR you’re reading.


----------



## Paul Farquhar (Feb 26, 2019)

oreofox said:


> That's what happens when you place practically every video game in FR. And I saw more FR novels than nearly any other setting, except maybe Dragonlance. And that setting went downhill after Dragons of Summer Flame.




Certainly successful computer games and novels where what initially propelled FR past Greyhawk, but that raises additional questions: _Why _did SSI choose FR for the Gold Box games? _Why_ was the breakthrough D&D novel (The Crystal Shard) set in FR?


----------



## Jester David (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Can anyone shed any light on why WotC is so secretive as to what their releasing any given year for 5E?  Editions past you knew what was coming well in advanced.  Now they give us minimal bits and pieces for one product, and then announce something after the first is released with little detail.  I dont see why they dont come out at the beginning of the year saying we are planning to release this?



Look at people's responses to the delay of the artificer by 2-3 weeks for an idea.


----------



## Remathilis (Feb 26, 2019)

oreofox said:


> I didn't read any of the monster lore because as I stated, they were useless to me as I have my own lore for my own setting.




Clearly, they should have consulted with you before writing those sections...


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Certainly successful computer games and novels where what initially propelled FR past Greyhawk, but that raises additional questions: _Why _did SSI choose FR for the Gold Box games? _Why_ was the breakthrough D&D novel (The Crystal Shard) set in FR?




TSR was trying to capitalize on the property they bought from Ed Greenwood, so the released the Grey Box and a novel in 1987.  Of all the proper campaign settings to come and go through the years whats left in 5E, the Forgotten Realms aside from the one off Curse of Strahd, and the forthcoming Eberron.  Id imagine from the surveys WotC has a good idea what people want.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 26, 2019)

werecorpse said:


> The Styes is set in a port town. I wonder if it will be in Saltmarsh or if the book will give two towns along the coast?



A slasher mystery in Saltmarsh either means it'll be a very easy mystery or Saltmarsh is going to be larger, like it was in DMG2.

Having it be set in a nearby full-sized city makes more sense, but yeah, that raises setting issues. (I may do it anyway, since I'll be putting a renamed Saltmarsh near Ptolus, which is a port city.)


----------



## Plaguescarred (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm very thrilled by that book and i can't wait to see it!!


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## Gradine (Feb 26, 2019)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Certainly successful computer games and novels where what initially propelled FR past Greyhawk, but that raises additional questions: _Why _did SSI choose FR for the Gold Box games? _Why_ was the breakthrough D&D novel (The Crystal Shard) set in FR?




I mean, at the point where they started fully developing computer games and the novel lines, FR was the new hotness of the moment.

Fun fact: The first computer game explicitly set in the Greyhawk setting? The Temple of Elemental Evil, that lovingly rendered pile of extremely well-implemented 3.5 rules and never-ending, hideous, game-ruining bugs, in _2003._



Azzy said:


> I thought it was Northeast of Specularum.




No you fools, clearly it's right next to the Lhazaar Principalities!


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Question!  Ive never played any of these adventures except for the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, but that was when I was 7 so I dont remember.  Do the players need to be able to breathe water for an extended period of time at any points in any of these modules?


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## pauldanieljohnson (Feb 26, 2019)

I ran Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh twice. Both times I located the adventure on the coast just West of Daggerford. And both times no one in the party figured out what to do with the hooded lamp, so we never made it on to U2 and U3. Go figure.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 26, 2019)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Certainly successful computer games and novels where what initially propelled FR past Greyhawk, but that raises additional questions: _Why _did SSI choose FR for the Gold Box games? _Why_ was the breakthrough D&D novel (The Crystal Shard) set in FR?



Because they were trying to cut Gygax out at that point.


----------



## oreofox (Feb 26, 2019)

Remathilis said:


> Clearly, they should have consulted with you before writing those sections...




Clearly you need to improve your reading comprehension. Perhaps increase the size of your computer monitor so the words "*TO ME*" would be big enough to read. And how dare I voice my opinion on a message board forum! Because that's surely not what such a place is for...


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Question!  Ive never played any of these adventures except for the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, but that was when I was 7 so I dont remember.  Do the players need to be able to breathe water for an extended period of time at any points in any of these modules?



Yes, but they provide the necessary resources for that. Especially for groups running this new hardcover, I can't imagine it'll be an issue, since every adventure that goes underwater even briefly will provide something to help out with that.


----------



## pauldanieljohnson (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm sure I'm not the first to notice there's something very Cthulhu-esque about that cover. I mean, if that's a kraken, why is it way up in the air? There's a very natural serendipity between the horror-tinged coastal adventures of the U-series and tales of the "Shadow Over Innsmouth" variety. Not to mention that recent products like Tomb of Annihilation have demonstrated that WoTC is willing to blend earlier works to create something new by combining Tomb of Horrors, essentially, with Dwellers in the Forbidden City. I'm wondering if we're going to see an adventure that mixes in Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh with Last Breath of Ashenport and some other stuff to give us something very Lovecraftian.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

I ran a seafaring campaign where the PCs were looking for a shipwreck/sunken treasure. I refused to give my players inexhaustible means to breathe water.  To me that seemed too easy, but they expected to walk into a town and buy magical items and spells by the dozens.  Dont get me wrong I gave them options but they were less conventional, and didnt allow the entire group to do dives at their leisure for however long they wanted.  I made them use their heads and utilize the resources they had available.


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Sorry if this was already posted elsewhere but...
Dungeons & Dragons' Confirms 'Ghosts of Saltmarsh' Will Be Non-Setting Specific

https://comicbook-com.cdn.ampprojec...2/26/dungeons-and-dragons-saltmarsh-greyhawk/


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Feb 26, 2019)

oreofox said:


> [MENTION=6801060]Demetrios1453[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6780330]Parmandur[/MENTION] : I didn't read any of the monster lore because as I stated, they were useless to me as I have my own lore for my own setting. And I figured they were FR focused since EVERY other book released has been (adventures minus Strahd, SCAG). Giving them names of Greyhawk characters really means nothing. So I made a mistake, but like I said, I didn't read the lore because it's rather useless to me. It's good to know it isn't FR focused, though.




Sorry that is a terrible system. You don't know the lore is useless to you until you read it. It may have some ideas you like that your monsters could have.


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Sorry if this was already posted elsewhere but...
> Dungeons & Dragons' Confirms 'Ghosts of Saltmarsh' Will Be Non-Setting Specific
> 
> https://comicbook-com.cdn.ampprojec...2/26/dungeons-and-dragons-saltmarsh-greyhawk/




The interview was already posted. Kate says the book will have info on how to plop it into most settings, including details on it's original setting Greyhawk.


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

MonsterEnvy said:


> The interview was already posted. Kate says the book will have info on how to plop it into most settings, including details on it's original setting Greyhawk.




Think I'll run this in Dark Sun on the Sea of Silt.  Bet they wont include ideas on how to do that!!


----------



## Staffan (Feb 26, 2019)

EthanSental said:


> I’m not a big fan of monsters that come out in the 3rd or 4th book of monster cause like in pathfinder and even older editions of D&D, these monsters are less used, fringe and weren’t popular or good enough to make it into the earlier books.



Monster books are an odd duck. Usually, the mechanical quality of the monsters increase as an edition gets older (because the designers get better at making monsters), but the quality of their concepts go down (because all the good ideas got used early).


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Staffan said:


> Monster books are an odd duck. Usually, the mechanical quality of the monsters increase as an edition gets older (because the designers get better at making monsters), but the quality of their concepts go down (because all the good ideas got used early).




I never gave it much thought let alone compared them but what changed from 2E to 3E?  Think they released more MM in 2E allowing for longer entries thus fleshing out creatures better over the life of the edition?  Starting in 3E the entries became more combat orientated and got rid of the other portions that made them unique outside of a combat emcounter.  Wish theyd bring that back without doing 12 pages on goblins like the latest Volos Guide.


----------



## Jester David (Feb 26, 2019)

Having been reading Twitter, I've discovered a pretty big problem with this book: the absence of pirates. People want pirates. When this was announced I saw a number of people excited by the idea of a sailing campaign and possible piratical PCs. But this isn't that. The first three sessions underwater adjacent or inland. Others take place in and around islands. There may only be a couple encounters that take place on a ship.I expect a lot of new players will be really disappointed by this adventurer, going into it thinking one thing and then discovering it's something else entirely...


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Jester David said:


> Having been reading Twitter, I've discovered a pretty big problem with this book: the absence of pirates. People want pirates. When this was announced I saw a number of people excited by the idea of a sailing campaign and possible piratical PCs. But this isn't that. The first three sessions underwater adjacent or inland. Others take place in and around islands. There may only be a couple encounters that take place on a ship.I expect a lot of new players will be really disappointed by this adventurer, going into it thinking one thing and then discovering it's something else entirely...




Gotta be honest Im not to excited for this.  Rehashing old adventures/ideas just with new mechanics just seems uninspired.  Its seems besides the three core 5E books everything else has been a rehash to some extent.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 26, 2019)

Jester David said:


> Having been reading Twitter, I've discovered a pretty big problem with this book: the absence of pirates. People want pirates. When this was announced I saw a number of people excited by the idea of a sailing campaign and possible piratical PCs. But this isn't that. The first three sessions underwater adjacent or inland. Others take place in and around islands. There may only be a couple encounters that take place on a ship.I expect a lot of new players will be really disappointed by this adventurer, going into it thinking one thing and then discovering it's something else entirely...



There's already a lot of pirate-oriented content out there and if Freeport or Razor Coast ever get ported to 5E, there will be even more of it.

That said, this seems like a no-brainer for the DMs Guild: Pirate content for Ghosts of Saltmarsh, including a Random Pirate table to roll on.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Gotta be honest Im not to excited for this.  Rehashing old adventures/ideas just with new mechanics just seems uninspired.  Its seems besides the three core 5E books everything else has been a rehash to some extent.



Most of their campaign books haven't been, unless you want to say that setting anything in the Underdark, or having evil elementals or dragons is automatically a rehash. And once you take those off the table, I'd argue you're cutting away a pretty big chunk of D&D's appeal for the general audience.

In other cases, it's gamers who are demanding a return to the classics, as seen on this thread. WotC didn't pull Strahd out of a hat for no reason.

That said, if D&D tropes are boring to you now, this is a really rich time in RPG history. There's a lot of other games to try until the thrill returns with D&D.


----------



## oreofox (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Gotta be honest Im not to excited for this.  Rehashing old adventures/ideas just with new mechanics just seems uninspired.  Its seems besides the three core 5E books everything else has been a rehash to some extent.




The core 3 are basically rehashes of the core 3 from previous editions, with a few new things added in, and dressed in a different coat of paint. There's nothing wrong with rehashing something from an older time to introduce that to a newer generation. Many people playing D&D now don't know a time where D&D didn't have feats, a Con of 14 didn't give anyone bonus hit points, a dwarf could only reach level 8 in the fighter class (don't quote me on the exact number), etc.

I actually kinda enjoyed Yawning Portal, as they were self-contained adventures that you could possibly run in order, or plop them into an existing game. It will be nice if this one is similar.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion (Feb 26, 2019)

Morrus said:


> I don’t know. I’m just reading the same PR you’re reading.




Yep, they make it pretty clear on the product page for it:

"Unravel sinister secrets of the sea with Ghosts of Saltmarsh releasing in game stores, digitally, and everywhere on May 21, 2019. An alternate art cover with a distinctive design and soft-touch finish is available exclusively in game stores on May 21."


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> Most of their campaign books haven't been, unless you want to say that setting anything in the Underdark, or having evil elementals or dragons is automatically a rehash. And once you take those off the table, I'd argue you're cutting away a pretty big chunk of D&D's appeal for the general audience.
> 
> In other cases, it's gamers who are demanding a return to the classics, as seen on this thread. WotC didn't pull Strahd out of a hat for no reason.
> 
> That said, if D&D tropes are boring to you now, this is a really rich time in RPG history. There's a lot of other games to try until the thrill returns with D&D.




Im personally not a fan of the mega adventures or a groups of connected adventures, but I do use pieces oof them sometimes.  An entry on Salmarsh sounds interesting but I wonder how much will be reprinted from the 3.5E DMG 2?  The seafaring rules might be useful but again its been done in 2Es Of Ships and Sea and 3.5s Stormwrack.  As the premise of 5E was that in every situation the rules dont need to be quantified so is this part really necessary?  I'll admit the monster manual and deck plans will be useful.  I just wonder how many people actually wanted to see an update of the U-series and a few others?  Why not just write a new adventure set in a setting neutral locale and put the rules/MM appendix at the end?


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 26, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> An entry on Salmarsh sounds interesting but I wonder how much will be reprinted from the 3.5E DMG 2?  The seafaring rules might be useful but again its been done in 2Es Of Ships and Sea and 3.5s Stormwrack.



Released in 2006, 1997 and 2005.

If you have those products and don't find this useful, rock on. Not every product is about or for you. (I have no interest in 99 percent of the big campaign books WotC has put out, although the summoning Tiamat storyline, amusingly, is the exact same one as a long running campaign I had just finished off when it was announced.)

But today's new gamers shouldn't be required to hunt down a 22 year old source book so that they can run 35+ year old adventures.



> As the premise of 5E was that in every situation the rules dont need to be quantified so is this part really necessary?



As mentioned in Kate Welch's video interview, vehicle rules are already in the DMG. This clarifies and expands them, with lots of sample sea vessels. It's optional content for people who want it. Based on reaction online, it seems like a lot of people think it sounds good.



> I'll admit the monster manual and deck plans will be useful.  I just wonder how many people actually wanted to see an update of the U-series and a few others?  Why not just write a new adventure set in a setting neutral locale and put the rules/MM appendix at the end?



Because those adventures are 35+ years old, most people never subscribed to Dungeon, much less kept all the adventures handy, and to many of today's gamers, these _are_ new adventures. (I've never run any of the Dungeon adventures, for instance.)

The people who have a D&D collection dating back to at least 1E are the minority and are not representative of the gaming population as a whole. WotC is producing new content for you, but not every product will be.


----------



## Parmandur (Feb 26, 2019)

Jester David said:


> Having been reading Twitter, I've discovered a pretty big problem with this book: the absence of pirates. People want pirates. When this was announced I saw a number of people excited by the idea of a sailing campaign and possible piratical PCs. But this isn't that. The first three sessions underwater adjacent or inland. Others take place in and around islands. There may only be a couple encounters that take place on a ship.I expect a lot of new players will be really disappointed by this adventurer, going into it thinking one thing and then discovering it's something else entirely...




That's probably what WotC folks meant about the early speculation being off-target. However, Welch has said there will be about a dozen deck plans, and robust random tables: pirated being part of that seems likely. And a Seord Coast high seas AP might be around the corner, which would be primarily piracy oriented on all likelihood, so we'll see where this goes.


----------



## R_J_K75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> That's probably what WotC folks meant about the early speculation being off-target. However, Welch has said there will be about a dozen deck plans, and robust random tables: pirated being part of that seems likely. And a Seord Coast high seas AP might be around the corner, which would be primarily piracy oriented on all likelihood, so we'll see where this goes.




Possibly an AP focussed on the pirates of the Nelanther Isles, I believe they were detailed in Lands of Intrigue.  Also I seem to remember reading there being lots of piracy on the Sea of Fallen Stars.  Cormyr gives letters for certain ship captains to attack and apprehend known pirate vessels on site.


----------



## BookBarbarian (Feb 26, 2019)

Best Ralph Wiggum voice. "Oh boy Saltmarch. That's we're I'm a viking!".


----------



## Hussar (Feb 26, 2019)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Certainly successful computer games and novels where what initially propelled FR past Greyhawk, but that raises additional questions: _Why _did SSI choose FR for the Gold Box games? _Why_ was the breakthrough D&D novel (The Crystal Shard) set in FR?




Umm, the Dragonlance novels were the breakthrough D&D novel quite a few years before The Crystal Shard.  The DL novels were incredibly popular for a number of years.


----------



## MNblockhead (Feb 27, 2019)

Paul Farquhar said:


> I suspect it's more like a very small number of posters making a lot of noise...
> 
> 
> (Quite frankly, there is good reason FR overtook Greyhawk in popularity).




[Grabs popcorn and settles in to read the rest of this thread.]


----------



## Jester David (Feb 27, 2019)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> There's already a lot of pirate-oriented content out there and if Freeport or Razor Coast ever get ported to 5E, there will be even more of it.



IF they’re updated you mean.
If Frog God Games or Green Ronin were going to, they already would have. And updating from Pathfinder is more for experienced DMs. 
Regardless... an official D&D product likely sells an order of magnitude more copies as those books, reaching ten times as many gamers.


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## Sword of Spirit (Feb 27, 2019)

Not being familiar with the original adventures, I wonder if I should start now trying to figure out how to handle underwater breathing assistance in such a way that the half-aquatic elf* in the party can still feel special in an underwater adventure. Obviously the whole party should get to be there, but there needs to be something in the way it goes to make having natural water-breathing capability be a plus.

I suppose I could require attunement for any water-breathing items, and overload the party with attuneable items so it eats up a precious attunement slot the half-elf doesn't have to use...if I wanted to create a perfect example of a solution that is worse than the problem.



Hussar said:


> Umm, the Dragonlance novels were the breakthrough D&D novel quite a few years before The Crystal Shard.  The DL novels were incredibly popular for a number of years.




Yep. My friend and I disagreed over whether Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance had more novels. I thought that it was Dragonlance for sure, and he was certain it was Forgotten Realms.

Well, it turns out we were both kind of right (although he was more right than me). At the time I was following AD&D there were a ton of DL novels and much fewer FR novels. But afterwards, at the time when he was into AD&D and 3e, is when FR novels overtook and surpassed DL.

Dragonlance used to be _the_ D&D novel line, with anything else just a bit of dabbling.

*Yeah, I realize the official aquatic half-elf doesn't get water-breathing, but that is ridiculous, so I overruled it.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 27, 2019)

Jester David said:


> IF they’re updated you mean.
> If Frog God Games or Green Ronin were going to, they already would have. And updating from Pathfinder is more for experienced DMs.
> Regardless... an official D&D product likely sells an order of magnitude more copies as those books, reaching ten times as many gamers.



Razor Coast's situation is pretty complicated, I suspect, between its path to publication and the sheer bulk of it. But with Pathfinder going through a tricky moment, it wouldn't be a huge shock to see Frog God to shift that way.

Green Ronin is trying to make a go of it with AGE, so may not be interested at all. I was disappointed they dropped the systemless version of Freeport in favor of updating the timeline with a Pathfinder core book (and held onto my systemless core book for that reason). If they decide they need an infusion of cash, though, I think 5E Freeport is likely something they have in their back pocket, if they need it. I mean, they came out with Book of the Righteous 5E, of all things, which is available at my local Barnes & Noble alongside all their AGE games. (There's probably a market for all of their AGE games in 5E, especially Game of Thrones, if they still have the license, but that would mean kind of giving up on their own system, which would likely be a tough pill to swallow.)


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 27, 2019)

Sword of Spirit said:


> Not being familiar with the original adventures, I wonder if I should start now trying to figure out how to handle underwater breathing assistance in such a way that the half-aquatic elf* in the party can still feel special in an underwater adventure.



Without spoiling anything, there's a hell of a good roleplaying hook in U1 for that character.


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## doctorhook (Feb 27, 2019)

Charles Rampant said:


> All I can assume is that, despite my own lukewarm feelings on it, Tales from the Yawning Portal sold really well (and/or was sufficiently cheap to make) that they identified that format as revisiting. I'd think it was lazy to re-use old adventures, but you might argue this way they have the benefit of being able to pick the most beloved ones, rather than gambling on a new one being as beloved. As per their usual wide net strategy, they've added just enough crunchy bits on top to attract DMs who might not be able to justify a pure adventure compendium.



Say what ya will about this “updated compilation” format, but I kinda like it! It lets me get copies of old stories I don’t have, but redesigned for modern rules. I think it’s a nice change of pace from the mega adventures (which are often a bit daunting). I really like the shorter adventures—good for mining ideas or plunking into casual games.


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## The Glen (Feb 27, 2019)

Sword of Spirit said:


> Yep. My friend and I disagreed over whether Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance had more novels. I thought that it was Dragonlance for sure, and he was certain it was Forgotten Realms.
> 
> Well, it turns out we were both kind of right (although he was more right than me). At the time I was following AD&D there were a ton of DL novels and much fewer FR novels. But afterwards, at the time when he was into AD&D and 3e, is when FR novels overtook and surpassed DL.




Towards the end of TSR they were churning out novels, mostly FR.  And a large amount of them were drek.  Extremely formulaic, lots of famous cameos there to just add a name brand to the book, and very little in the way of actual substance.  Dragonlance was huge in its day though, until the Realms just shoved everything out of the way at the end.  They got the new modules, most of the video games and became a constant source of splatbooks.  They've got 30+ video games set there, the next nearest is Mystara with seven.


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## Jester David (Feb 27, 2019)

Charles Rampant said:


> Interesting, rather different than what most of us imagined. By that, I think it is safe to say the general assumption was a 'nautical stuff' book with mainly monsters, campaign ideas, and ship rules; this appears more like an adventure compendium with probably 20-40 pages of ship stuff appended to it, which is also very useful but certainly different.
> 
> All I can assume is that, despite my own lukewarm feelings on it, Tales from the Yawning Portal sold really well (and/or was sufficiently cheap to make) that they identified that format as revisiting. I'd think it was lazy to re-use old adventures, but you might argue this way they have the benefit of being able to pick the most beloved ones, rather than gambling on a new one being as beloved. As per their usual wide net strategy, they've added just enough crunchy bits on top to attract DMs who might not be able to justify a pure adventure compendium.



That and it’s easy.  
They did four books last year, with three being in the fall. They did a book a month for a while. This was their break, as they just needed to update and do a quarter of the work of making a full book.


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## Gorath99 (Feb 27, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Think I'll run this in Dark Sun on the Sea of Silt.  Bet they wont include ideas on how to do that!!



Not knowing any of the adventures listed, here's my attempt.  Don't use the Sea of Silt, but instead the Last Sea. Have a Mind Lord go rogue to explain anything in the adventures that wouldn't normally make sense in Dark Sun.


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## sim-h (Feb 27, 2019)

sim-h said:


> On a related note Beadle and Grimm's (who did the Platinum Edition of Dragon Heist for $500) seem to be teasing an announcement coming tomorrow - 'Silver edition' of the new book seems likely from their emails...




Haha so they sent an email delaying the announcement, of the product they refer to as "The Sinister Silver thing". So yeah, we know what it is. Just not what's going to be in the package (yet).


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## Imaculata (Feb 27, 2019)

I am very curious to know what rules the book introduces for ships and naval combat.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 27, 2019)

Gorath99 said:


> Not knowing any of the adventures listed, here's my attempt.  Don't use the Sea of Silt, but instead the Last Sea. Have a Mind Lord go rogue to explain anything in the adventures that wouldn't normally make sense in Dark Sun.




I was half joking when I posted that, but I had thought about the Last Sea afterwards and actually seems like a fun idea.  Also considered putting it in Spelljammer, either in Wild Space or the Phlogiston.  With a little creative thinking anythings possible.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 27, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> I am very curious to know what rules the book introduces for ships and naval combat.




If I had to guess it'll have rules for breathing underwater, weather and non-combat ship speeds.  Grappling ships & boarding, ramming, and artillery combat.  Underwater combat, (being three-dimensional) & what spells and weapons are affected.  Most likely it'll have ship deck plans, cargo space, crew sizes, and weapon expansion slots.  Water related magical items and spells.


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## SkidAce (Feb 27, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> If I had to guess it'll have rules for breathing underwater, weather and non-combat ship speeds.  Grappling ships & boarding, ramming, and artillery combat.  Underwater combat, (being three-dimensional) & what spells and weapons are affected.  Most likely it'll have ship deck plans, cargo space, crew sizes, and weapon expansion slots.  Water related magical items and spells.




Hmmm, if the underwater 3d combat is included, and works well, I could adapt it (increased movement and speed) into Astral combat.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 27, 2019)

SkidAce said:


> Hmmm, if the underwater 3d combat is included, and works well, I could adapt it (increased movement and speed) into Astral combat.




Yep should work the same, but Im just guessing whether it'll be in there or not.


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## Gorath99 (Feb 27, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> I was half joking when I posted that, but I had thought about the Last Sea afterwards and actually seems like a fun idea.  Also considered putting it in Spelljammer, either in Wild Space or the Phlogiston.  With a little creative thinking anythings possible.



I figured as much.  But it's fun to try and make these things work.

Cool idea to put it in Spelljammer!


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 27, 2019)

Gorath99 said:


> I figured as much.  But it's fun to try and make these things work.
> 
> Cool idea to put it in Spelljammer!




Biggest challenge with doing a Dark Sun game would be to come up with rules for psionics, so I think Id do a Spelljammer game instead.  Since Im currently running an Undermountain campaign that wouldnt be too hard.  Considering none of my current players have ever played it before I just might do that if I decide to run any of those adventures.  It would be fun to see the look on their faces when they realize where they are.


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## vecna00 (Feb 27, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> I am very curious to know what rules the book introduces for ships and naval combat.






R_J_K75 said:


> I was half joking when I posted that, but I had thought about the Last Sea afterwards and actually seems like a fun idea.  Also considered putting it in Spelljammer, either in Wild Space or the Phlogiston.  With a little creative thinking anythings possible.




It's bad that I was up until 4 am drafting some notes for a 5E Spelljammer conversion, and I figured I may need to wait for this book for more ship stats that I can try to reverse engineer. The Scavenger in DotMM is a good start, but I need a few more examples.


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## Zardnaar (Feb 27, 2019)

vecna00 said:


> It's bad that I was up until 4 am drafting some notes for a 5E Spelljammer conversion, and I figured I may need to wait for this book for more ship stats that I can try to reverse engineer. The Scavenger in DotMM is a good start, but I need a few more examples.




Would you be oppsed to overhauled 2E rules for Spelljammer or using parts of another d20 game like Star Wars Saga Edition ship combat?


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 27, 2019)

vecna00 said:


> It's bad that I was up until 4 am drafting some notes for a 5E Spelljammer conversion, and I figured I may need to wait for this book for more ship stats that I can try to reverse engineer. The Scavenger in DotMM is a good start, but I need a few more examples.




What exactly are you trying to convert?


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## vecna00 (Feb 27, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> Would you be oppsed to overhauled 2E rules for Spelljammer or using parts of another d20 game like Star Wars Saga Edition ship combat?




When I initially ran a Spelljammer 5E game, i just did the ship combat as more of a narrative, until boarding happened. I was thinking I could keep the ship combat as is, but after a lot of thought it would be better if it were more modernized. Use hit points instead of hull points, make use of damage threshold, etc. I think it could work well with 5E's combat system.



R_J_K75 said:


> What exactly are you trying to convert?




Mostly the ships, the combat, some races. The lore can be used as is.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 27, 2019)

vecna00 said:


> When I initially ran a Spelljammer 5E game, i just did the ship combat as more of a narrative, until boarding happened. I was thinking I could keep the ship combat as is, but after a lot of thought it would be better if it were more modernized. Use hit points instead of hull points, make use of damage threshold, etc. I think it could work well with 5E's combat system.
> 
> I agree with running combat more of a narrative until boarding becuase chances are the crew are going to be the ones manuevering the Spelljammer and manning the artillery onboard.  They wont come into play until melee.  Besides before boarding either the ships are gonna fire and close or try and evade/flee each other, which can be hand waived with a few simple dice rolls.


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## vecna00 (Feb 28, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> I agree with running combat more of a narrative until boarding becuase chances are the crew are going to be the ones manuevering the Spelljammer and manning the artillery onboard.  They wont come into play until melee.  Besides before boarding either the ships are gonna fire and close or try and evade/flee each other, which can be hand waived with a few simple dice rolls.




Those were my exact thoughts when I first ran it, and it worked for my group. The PC captain would give orders and the NPCs would do the things. I just want to make sure that the rest of the party isn't just sitting there and twiddling their thumbs during this.


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## R_J_K75 (Feb 28, 2019)

vecna00 said:


> Those were my exact thoughts when I first ran it, and it worked for my group. The PC captain would give orders and the NPCs would do the things. I just want to make sure that the rest of the party isn't just sitting there and twiddling their thumbs during this.




In the rounds leading to boarding they could possibly set traps for boarders, rogues can hide for sneak attack, stage ammo, basically doing things that may provide advantage to them and the crew on the first round of attack.  The round before boarding throw the tinker gnome overboard so hes caught in the gravity well circling the spelljammer and pops up over the battle for a surprise sneak attack to throw a powder keg blowing up the enemy ship.  Depending on the arrangement with the Capt and the PCs they may have to take orders from him anyway.


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## vecna00 (Feb 28, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> In the rounds leading to boarding they could possibly set traps for boarders, rogues can hide for sneak attack, stage ammo, basically doing things that may provide advantage to them and the crew on the first round of attack.  The round before boarding throw the tinker gnome overboard so hes caught in the gravity well circling the spelljammer and pops up over the battle for a surprise sneak attack to throw a powder keg blowing up the enemy ship.  Depending on the arrangement with the Capt and the PCs they may have to take orders from him anyway.




That could also be done, but I also want to give them the option of doing more. Which is what I'm working on.


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## Nymblwyly (Feb 28, 2019)

Played the original Saltmarsh series way back in 1st Ed.  Always struck me as a good story line which cannot be said for a lot of 1st Ed stuff. Glad to see it resurrected and hopefully improved!! Artwork will have been for sure!!


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## chibi graz'zt (Feb 28, 2019)

Another Greyhawk adventures book!!! So happy they are supporting Greyhawk!

But more importantly a book on nautical rules; I'll be using this one a lot and will be blending it with my Spelljammer and Planescape campaigns. 

Plus, I just bought a big ship that'll get some good use


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## FitzTheRuke (Feb 28, 2019)

chibi graz'zt said:


> Plus, I just bought a big ship that'll get some good use




You got the Falling Star? Niiiice.


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## chibi graz'zt (Feb 28, 2019)

FitzTheRuke said:


> You got the Falling Star? Niiiice.





I did! And it’s a beauty


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## Jer (Feb 28, 2019)

Nymblwyly said:


> Played the original Saltmarsh series way back in 1st Ed.  Always struck me as a good story line which cannot be said for a lot of 1st Ed stuff.




It came out of TSR UK, who had a different perspective on the game.  One that was actually pretty ahead of its time in a lot of ways.

The first Saltmarsh book and _Blade of Vengeance_ where both modules I had as a young nerd running the game for my friends.  Later I'd pick up _Nights Dark Terror_, also out of TSR UK.  Any of them are excellent adventures that I'll pull out again and again to either use straight-up or mine for ideas.  (I didn't get the rest of the Saltmarsh trilogy until much later in life and haven't really done much with them - but that first one I've run straight up and tweaked to use in a Ravenloft game and strip mined for a more modern setting game - it's a pretty versatile little scenario).


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## MonsterEnvy (Feb 28, 2019)

R_J_K75 said:


> Gotta be honest Im not to excited for this.  Rehashing old adventures/ideas just with new mechanics just seems uninspired.  Its seems besides the three core 5E books everything else has been a rehash to some extent.




Which is a super  view. Yawning Portal, Curse of Strahd and Ghosts of Saltmarsh are the only outright remakes of old stuff.


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## Wik (Mar 1, 2019)

Jer said:


> It came out of TSR UK, who had a different perspective on the game.  One that was actually pretty ahead of its time in a lot of ways.
> 
> The first Saltmarsh book and _Blade of Vengeance_ where both modules I had as a young nerd running the game for my friends.  Later I'd pick up _Nights Dark Terror_, also out of TSR UK.  Any of them are excellent adventures that I'll pull out again and again to either use straight-up or mine for ideas.  (I didn't get the rest of the Saltmarsh trilogy until much later in life and haven't really done much with them - but that first one I've run straight up and tweaked to use in a Ravenloft game and strip mined for a more modern setting game - it's a pretty versatile little scenario).




Nights Dark Terror is an often missed gem.  Several years ago, I played through the last half of it with [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] DMing.  Was a highlight of his campaign.  If I could find a copy of the book for under a hundred bucks, I'd pick it up.  WotC will never reprint the thing, though - it's not one of the "Classics".  

***

As for the book itself - I'm excited!  I'm particularly interested in the idea that they're reprinting old Dungeon stuff.  Makes me hopeful we'll see some sort of DM's guild dungeon magazine type thing, which would be awesome.  Plus, Tammeraut's fate was a fun module - defend an island from aquatic zombies, and then a dark aquatic horror similar to "The Abyss"' final act.


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## Enevhar Aldarion (Mar 1, 2019)

Wik said:


> Nights Dark Terror is an often missed gem.  Several years ago, I played through the last half of it with [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] DMing.  Was a highlight of his campaign.  If I could find a copy of the book for under a hundred bucks, I'd pick it up.  WotC will never reprint the thing, though - it's not one of the "Classics".
> 
> ***
> 
> As for the book itself - I'm excited!  I'm particularly interested in the idea that they're reprinting old Dungeon stuff.  Makes me hopeful we'll see some sort of DM's guild dungeon magazine type thing, which would be awesome.  Plus, Tammeraut's fate was a fun module - defend an island from aquatic zombies, and then a dark aquatic horror similar to "The Abyss"' final act.




 [MENTION=40177]Wik[/MENTION] you mean this one?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17119/B10-Nights-Dark-Terror-Basic


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## Wik (Mar 1, 2019)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> [MENTION=40177]Wik[/MENTION] you mean this one?
> 
> https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17119/B10-Nights-Dark-Terror-Basic




I should clarify - pdfs arent what im looking for.  I have it on pdf.  A print on demand option, like the rules cyclopedia, would be awesome though.


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## Count_Zero (Mar 1, 2019)

Wouldn't there be some rights issues related to Greyhawk that would prevent it from being opened up in the DMG for fan-made content?  I know there are some bits of Greyhawk that are still held by the Gygax estate, so it sounds like if those bits were to be used in fan materials it could cause some problems.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.


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## Parmandur (Mar 4, 2019)

Count_Zero said:


> Wouldn't there be some rights issues related to Greyhawk that would prevent it from being opened up in the DMG for fan-made content?  I know there are some bits of Greyhawk that are still held by the Gygax estate, so it sounds like if those bits were to be used in fan materials it could cause some problems.
> 
> I'd love to be proven wrong though.




Pretty sure WotC fixed any lingering rights issues with Gygax in the 90's, especially with making it the official setting.


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## Parmandur (Mar 4, 2019)

Wik said:


> Nights Dark Terror is an often missed gem.  Several years ago, I played through the last half of it with [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] DMing.  Was a highlight of his campaign.  If I could find a copy of the book for under a hundred bucks, I'd pick it up.  WotC will never reprint the thing, though - it's not one of the "Classics".
> 
> ***
> 
> As for the book itself - I'm excited!  I'm particularly interested in the idea that they're reprinting old Dungeon stuff.  Makes me hopeful we'll see some sort of DM's guild dungeon magazine type thing, which would be awesome.  Plus, Tammeraut's fate was a fun module - defend an island from aquatic zombies, and then a dark aquatic horror similar to "The Abyss"' final act.




They've actually been publishing old Dungeon and Dragon articles in Dragon+.


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## pukunui (Mar 4, 2019)

Parmandur said:


> They've actually been publishing old Dungeon and Dragon articles in Dragon+.



Not updated to 5e, though. They’ve just been sharing the original adventures in PDF format.


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## Windjammer (Mar 5, 2019)

Extremely excited about seeing this converted into 5e, especially in the capable hands of Mearls who have us this gem previously:

“28. SNOW-COVERED DOME OF ICE. This hollowed-out ice formation has been created by the creature that lairs inside – a remorhaz that has recently moved into the rift. A number of charred skeletons are strewn around its icy den.”

That's from G2, frost giant's lair. You must marvel at the economy of the entry. There's no whiff of clutter, be it keying in page numbers to Monster Manual references, abbreviated monster key stats, or exciting treasure or how PCs interact with this frosty environment - or a myriad of other stuff that could unfold at the game table. Instead, it's really just "Room X, monster Y, random sentence." 

Brilliant! Contrast the crazy clutter of the old entry before Mearls & co. cleaned it up:

“28. SNOW-COVERED DOME OF ICE: This formation has been caused by the creature that lairs inside, a remorhaz 30’ long (H.P.: 58) which has recently moved into the rift. A number of skeletons are around its icy den, one of a human with a ring of 3 wishes on its bony finger and a bastard sword (+2 giant slayer, no special intelligence, align to suit the party if desired, otherwise it is Lawful Good). If the monster is destroyed by heat (fireball, lightning, wall of fire, fire elemental, etc.) the treasures are lost—destroyed or sunk into the ice non-recoverable.”

We can only hope Saltmarsh is equally brilliant. Here's an early pre-view that should get hopes up.

The Styes, City Map Area 9, original:“Thornwell Tower. The tallest structure in the Styes, Thornwell Tower is a massive stone pinnacle of black and red marble surrounded by a high stone wall. One of the Councilmen, Thornwell, dwells here. Locals whisper that the tower is haunted by devils and contains at least one portal to the Nine Hells.”

5e adaptation:“Thornwell Tower. The tallest structure in the Styes, Thornwell Tower is a massive stone tower surrounded by a high stone wall. Locals whisper that Councilmen Thornwell dwells here.”


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## Prakriti (Mar 5, 2019)

Windjammer said:


> Extremely excited about seeing this converted into 5e, especially in the capable hands of Mearls who have us this gem previously:
> 
> “28. SNOW-COVERED DOME OF ICE. This hollowed-out ice formation has been created by the creature that lairs inside – a remorhaz that has recently moved into the rift. A number of charred skeletons are strewn around its icy den.”
> 
> That's from G2, frost giant's lair. You must marvel at the economy of the entry. There's no whiff of clutter, be it keying in page numbers to Monster Manual references, abbreviated monster key stats, or exciting treasure or how PCs interact with this frosty environment - or a myriad of other stuff that could unfold at the game table. Instead, it's really just "Room X, monster Y, random sentence."



Can't tell if sarcasm or not.


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