# Theandric Saga OOC



## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

This is the OOC thread for the [smallcaps]Theandric Saga[/smallcaps], for discussion and player resources. The first few posts are by me (Yair), and will be updated as needed to reflect the current state of affairs in the saga; you can always come here for an up-to-date character sheet or other resources.

The [smallcaps]Theandric Saga[/smallcaps] is a Play-by-Post campaign of *Ars Magica Fifth Edition*, set in the Rhine tribunal. You may want to check out the IC thread or read the synopsis.

*PbP Metarules*
At any given scene, you may control any grog(s), your magus character, and your companion character if they're present. I encourage you to assume expected interactions with NPCs and other characters; sometimes you'll be wrong, but waiting for a response (say, for an answer to your question) can slow down the game needlessly. Do not, however, assume actions of other player characters beyond the trivial ones - let the others play their characters. 
For a given adventure, I would usually expect to see one major character (magus or companion) per player, plus a turb of grogs/covenfolk played jointly. But if you've got two main characters on the scene, or want to "lay claim" to a certain grog as your character or whatever, feel free to do so.
I expect every player to have one magus and perhaps one companion character. You may take grogs from the example covenant at the Atlas site, or make your own; remember there are only a few covenfolk overall (see the covenant description below).
Post at least once every two days, except on weekends. The more you post, the better. If someone fails to post for two days, his character may be NPCd until he shows signs of independent life.
You may make your own rolls, or you may just describe your action (in which case I will roll for you). 
If you have a question, post it on the OOC thread or as an OOC note in the IC thread.


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*The Covenant of Teneo*

*Updated Nov 20 2005*; Season 0 from foundation, Winter of 1220 AD
Founded on Winter 1220 AD

For a long time in the ancient past, the old records say, the site of Teneo was occupied by the Hermetic covenant of Rethra, although it wasn't at the covenant proper (which lies some 20-30 miles to the east). It is unclear when it was abandoned, perhaps as late as 1202. 
Rethra was an ancient covenant, predating the Order itself. Its magi served as pagan priests, at least for a time, but it has fallen into deep Winter and when the Knights of the Sword came in 1202 to pillage and destroy it, they found nothing but empty ruins.

Currently, the site is a snow covered plateau on a clifftop, with a circle of standing stones as its center and the remains of a few wooden buildings around it. Some may be habitable with but little work, which is suprising given the time it was allegedly abandoned, but most are in utter ruins and need to be taken down. The place needs to be rebuilt, and it is for this purpose that Fengheld has provided you with artisans and mundane resources to oversee the construction.
The forest encircles the plateau, spreading from its sides onto the side of the road. From both of the cliff's sides, a trek through the forest outskirts will lead, with some climbing, to the site. The cliff is large enough and the lay of the land is such that the place is not visible from the road or sorounding countryside; only the cliff is visible, not its top.

The communal (grog) characters are: Heinrich the Swordman, Frank the Tough, Baldermar the Thief, Old Magd the Wise, Pavel the Shapeshifter, and Puck the Goblin-Blooded [one covenfolk "missing"], and the specialists Hans the Carpenter, Gottfried the Scribe, Aldrich the Handyman, and Rodolph the Chef.

*Pacts and Obligations*
None yet. [I'll put the character of the covenant here, along with any pacts, documents, obligations, or similar thingies.]

Fengheld has provided Teneo with mundane craftsmen and resources to construct the covenant, as well as a few books and some raw vis pawns. Stentorius has made it clear that this generosity should go unrewarded, and hinted that a pregenitor may visit the covenant shortly.


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Kajamba Lion's Characters*

*Updated Nov 20 2005*

Journeyman *Octavian* of House Tremere,, member of the Apple Gild
Season 0 from gauntlet; age 25 (25)
Tall and somewhat handsome, Octavian has a decidedly academic air to him - he is clearly not a soldier. He wears plain robes and clothing, and frequently carries an elaborate staff.
He is little known outside Hermetic circles, and unlikely to be recognized by mundanes.
Magi may recognize him as the filius of Daria la Gris, a prominent political leader in the Apple Gild whose name and influence extends to other Tribunals. 

Octavian's magic is elemental in nature, and he shows great interest in military engineering.

Companion *Eric Waldst*
Age 25 (25)
Eric's most prominent feature is his missing eye. He is typically seen hiding in some shadows, his black cloak hiding a short sword and light armor. 
Eric is well known as a robber in the Alsace-Lorraine, and there are a number of nobles who would show keen interest in his whereabouts.

Grog *Giovanni Angiulo*
Age 65 (65)
Giovanni is an Italian artisan, an architect and siegeworks engineer. He is an old man afflicted with arthritis, depressed, and a slave to the drink.


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*MummyKitty's Characters*

*Updated Oct 12 2005*

Journeyman *Titus Creperius* of House Jerbiton, member of the Apple Gild
Season 0 from gauntlet; age 28 (28)
Titus appears as a handsome man with short cropped brownish hair, a neatly trimmed beard, and a slight frame. He is dressed as a minor noble.
Travelers from Italy or Sicily may recognize him as the rake son of the Bronchelli family, rumored to have been sent to France after infuriating the Douche of Venice. His liaison with the douche's daughter was quite famous, for a while.
Rhine magi may recognize him as the filius of Master Peter of Fengheld, known for his interest in vines and wine. He is otherwise not well known in the tribunal.

Titus is a student of mundane sculpture and architecture, of an ancient Mercurian tradition. He is an expert in Terram and Intellego, and a creative innovator.

Companion *Hakon Olaffson*
Age 22 (22)
Hakon is a large man, standing almost two meters tall, with long red hair like many of his Danish countryman. He is a quiet man, with but rudimentary control of the Slavic or German tongue. A woodsman and capable carpenter, Hakon seems to enjoy the privacy and solitude that goes along with being the covenant's woodsman.

Covenfolk *Mattihus*
Age 45 (45)
Gray haired Mattihus has lived in and traveled around Pomerania all his life, and spends much of his time telling or trading gossip. He is definitely the man to go to if you want to find out anything about Pomerania, and the last person to talk to if you want a secret kept. He is in frequent contacyt with nearby villages, and his excellent brewed mead makes him welcome in all of them.


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Strahd's Characters*

*Updated Oct 25 2005*

Journeyman *Gorgamesh* of House Criamon, member of the Oak Gild
Season 0 from gauntlet; age 25 (25)
Gorgamesh is a horribly disfigured figure, a hunchback with Criamon tattoos and a revolting appearance. 
Raised from infancy in the covenant, Gorgamesh is not well known in mundane society.
Magi may recognize him as the filius of Master Cato, a Criamon member of Durenmar whose work on magic theory and source of mystical auras is respected throughout the Order. He has yet to develop a reputation of his own.

Gorgamesh's magic focuses on Vim and Corpus, and he is particularly interested in Divine power.

Troubador *Malloc*
Age 22 (22)
Malloc is a cheerful troubador, always on hand to entertain with his singing and lute. His enchanting music can move the coldest heart.


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Nzld's Characters*

Updated Oct 25 2005

Journeyman *Valeria Libidia * of House Verditius, member of the Apple Gild
Season 0 from gauntlet; age 24 (24)
Valeria is a beautiful young woman with long flowing black hair, and a voluptous figure. She wears a luxurious fur-lined cape over an elegant embroided robe, and carries several silver trinkets, charms, and jewelry.
She is well known as "the whore from Durenmar", and tales of her promiscuous nature have traveled far and wide. Her status as the fillia of Gudrun Tigurina, the Artificer of Durenmar and probably one of the most powerful Verditius magi in the Order, is somewhat overshadowed by these tales.

Valeria's is famous for working her magic in the nude. She is also suprisingly capable in Corpus and Mentem magic, for her age; but most find this far less interesting.

Custos *Volkmar*
Age 35 (35)
Volkmar is a mountain of a man, over 2.5 meters [7 feet] tall, with proportions that suggest an incredibly muscled physique. His body is always concealed beneath layers of wraps, clothing, and armor, however. Even his face is hidden behind a silver mask, only a hint of strange emerald eyes glittering through to pierce the world.
Amongst the magi and covenfolk of Durenmar, Volkmar is well regarded as an immensly powerful and stalwart warrior, with keen insight and intellect, but with a volatile temperament.


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Sphynx's Characters*

Updated Nov 20 2005

Journeyman *Dylan Llev* of House Merinitia, member of the ???? Gild
Age 32 (20)
Dylan looks far younger than he is. He is very thin and fey like, with pointy ears and unnaturally colored hair. He maintains Celtic traditions such as a Celtic tattoo on his arm, and Celtic earings. Occasionally he is seen in the company of a small mischivious sylph.
He has gained no fame yet, and is probably unknown to magi and mundanes alike.

His magic is typically faerie, and focuses on Auram effects, altough he is particularly potent with Rego.

Companion *Lupus*
Age 16 (16)
Lupus is a mysterious, feral, young man, always seen in the company of a great white wolf that he claims is his brother.


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Tribunal Description*

The covenant is located in western Pomerania, in the northern part of the tribunal close to the covenants of Crintera and Ocularum. The land is under the control of Denmark, but no noble currently claims this particular isolated place. [German reconquest may, or may not, happen at 1227.] It lies on top of a large dark forest, near a lake. A few villages exist nearby, a monastery is not far off, and the nearest city is Rostock some 50 miles to the west (lying on the shores of the Baltic sea). The land is hilly, with patches of dark forests and lakes, and clusters of villages and farmland. Most of the populace speaks German, but a significant portion speaks Slavic. 

The tribunal has about 150 magi, wielding over 200 votes. These include about a dozen archmagi, and three primi. Most magi reside in covenants, about a dozen are eremite [hermits], and some are peregenitores [guests, not accounted as members in any covenant].
Crintera, domus magnus of House Bjornaer, lies 70 miles to the north on the island of Rugen. Of its six magi, you are probably familiar with *Urgen*,  the infamous leader of the Hawthorn gild, *Falke*, an influential Linden gild member and prima of Bjornaer, and *Phyllia*, the gossip of the tribunal.
Ocularum lies 100 miles to the west, in the city of Lubeck. You have probably heard of *Henri* there, the leader of the Apple gild.
You are familiar with Durenmar, in the black forest some 350 miles to the south-west, and its Great Library. The leader of tribunal, Praeco Archmaga Prima Murion, lives there, so does the senior Quaesitor Caecilius and the senior redcap Horst, and the notorious Philipus Niger of Flambeau, leader of the Ash gild.
You are also acutely familiar with Fengheld, some 150 miles to the south-west, the biggest covenant with many chapter houses and probably your home covenant. It is led by the strict Stentorius, exarch of the Tremere.
There are, of course, many other magi in the tribunal, and you may have heard of any of them.

Political factions in the tribunal can be described in terms of Gilds:[sblock]*Gilds*
Every magus character should choose one Gild to belong to. A gild is much like a political party, it holds no formal weight or authority in Hermetic law but can have a lot of political weight and social implications. The following gilds are available to choose from:

*Apple* A young but growing gild, prominent amongst Jerbiton magi and led by the covenant of _Ocularum_ that resides in the trade city Lubeck. The Apple gild seeks to see magi integrated into mundane society, and as accepted and respected members of society. Its members often admire mundane art, scholarship, or God. Apple magi tend to condone interference with mundanes as long it is respectful of them, and support lenient interpretations of the Code in that respect. They condemn and oppose taking harsh measures against mundanes and the Church in particular. Many of its members interact with mundane society as merchants, scholars, or de facto nobles.
*Ash* A small but exclusive gild, led by Philipus Niger scholae Flambeau of Durenmar, and including quite a few Flambeau and Tytalus magi. Ostensibly the gild promotes the idea that magi are superior to other mundanes and beings, and should be treated accordingly. In practice, they condone violations of the Code and promote lenient interpretations of it, especially condoning the use of force. They oppose any attempt to limit the power of magi or force temperance or patience. But above all, they concern themselves with hunting down and rooting out enemies of the Order. A few of its members are pagans, and are suspected of subtantially (and illegally) supporing pagan religion.
*Elder* Effectively led by Handri, the Primus of Merinitia, this gild is almost synonymous with Merinitia magi. It promotes respect for faeries, from both mundanes and magi. It tends to support paganism, and often violently opposes Church and mundane encroachment. It opposes attempts to reconcile Hermetic and mundane society as misguided, efforts of reconciliation with the Church as dangerous, and actions that impinge on faeries and faerie auras as almost sacrilegious. Most of its members are pagans, although some merely see the faeries as sources of enlightment rather than gods.
*Hawthorn* Led by the infamous Urgen, former Primus of Bjornaer, this is a small but loud gild. It maintains that the answers to today's problems lie in the primeval magical powers that lie at the heart of the great forests of Germany, in its animal spirits, in the inherent and ancient magic of the land. The gild vehemently opposes mundane and Church encroachment, and even extends this treatment to Faerie which it sees as a pollution of the purely magical. Its members tend to support actions that prevent mundane or Church encroachment, lenient interpretations of the Code, and respect antiquety and old age. They condemn contact with mundanes, respect for faeries, and above all defilement or depletion of magical places. Hawthorn magi have been known to devestate entire settlements and overturn Faerie auras.
*Linden* A powerful gild led by Occultes scholae Bonisagus of Durenmar. Linden magi promote the secrecy of the Order, stealth, and subterfuge. They abhor violent, flashy solutions whether in mundane or arcane matters, and encourage peaceful resolution of conflicts. Many of them are noncombatants, and relatively many are eremite (“lonely”) magi. Many of them denounce the worldliness of the Order, and espouse a more secluded and esoteric existence.
*Oak* By far the largest gild, led by Murion scholae Bonisagus of Durenmar and supported by Stentorius scholae Tremere of Fenghled, it also has the most vague agenda. Ostensibly it strives to uncover ancient primeval secrets, maintain Hermetic law and order, and protect the wilderness, magi, and the Order. In practice it forms a large mass of undecided votes on nearly every issue, which even its leaders find hard to control. Oak votes tend to support caution, investigation, and deferment; they tend to oppose new and untraditional ideas, tribunal-wide decisions and obligations, and anything that may be even slightly dangerous to the Order. Many of its magi simply follow their leader’s vote, trusting in his or her judgment. 
[/sblock]
There are approximately 130 magi in the Rhine Tribunal. In such a small group, politics are by necessity a matter of personal relations as much as political opinions. The following are the most noteworthy magi in the tribunal, and as such those that carry the most political weight. They are presented roughly in the order of their influence. [sblock]*Twenty Noteworthy Personalities of the Rhine Tribunal*
Archmaga *Murion* of House Bonisagus, from the covenant of Durenmar, is probably the most influential political figure in the tribunal. Praeco, Prima of Bonisagus, and leader of the Oak Gild and the second-largest and perhaps most important covenant, she holds considerable legal and political power. Her supporters see her as a resolute and adamant leader, working tirelessly to return the House and Tribunal to their past glory. She emphasizes the importance of Hermetic research to increase the power of the Order, works to improve the training of apprentices and the education of magi, and to contain the more hot-headed members of the tribunal. Her detractors paint her as a judgmental and stubborn old woman, too concerned with personal and House ambition and resentful of any true innovation. As Prima, she has been known to occasionally use her power to force House-wide votes in matters that were more to do with Oak policy. She is equally renowned, however, for looking after and supporting her fellow Bonisagus magi.

Archmagus *Stentorius* of House Tremere, from the covenant of Fengheld, is another figure of tremendous political impact. Exarch (leader of the Tremere in the tribunal) and leader of the largest covenant in the tribunal, he has great influence on other magi, especially in the Oak Gild. He is seen as an uncompromising and demanding leader, that pushes his followers to their best and has great personal integrity and wisdom. His detractors see him as overly rigid, stuck in old traditions and beliefs that no longer apply in the modern world. As the leader of Fengheld he brought it to great strength, until its power now rivals Durenmar itself. As exarch he is considered a strict but fair commander, and never abuses his position for personal or Oak interests.

*Occultes* of House Bonisagus, from the covenant of Durenmar, leads the Linden Gild, the second largest faction in Rhine politics. In sharp contrast to the leaders of the Oak Gild, Occultes is a friendly and kind man, liked more than respected by his fellow Gild members. Indeed, the Gild's most powerful members are eremite (that is, secluded) magi, who let the friendly Gildmaster speak (and often vote) on their behalf rather than soil themselves in Hermetic politics. It is perhaps little wonder that Occultes speaks of the virtues of a more secretive Order, isolated from mundane society and concerns. He is surprisingly cunning, and famous for successfully designing and carrying out subtle ploys to preserve the Order's interests with no one even realizing that they were manipulated.

*Falke* of House Bjornaer, from the covenant of Crintera, is respected throughout the tribunal as a level-headed and eloquent speaker. She is the new Prima of Bjornaer, elected after convincing House and Tribunal into a policy of isolation and prudence in handling the conquest of Ruden. She is a prominent member of the Linden Gild, but is seen as too young and naive by most members of the tribunal. Even the former Primus, Urgen, sees her as misguided, a victim of her youth and inexperience.

*Handri* of House Merinitia, from the covenant of Irencillia, leads the covenant and House. He is a very secretive man, and none seem to know his designs. Although he doesn't officially lead the Elder Gild, he is considered its de facto leader. Gild and House meld into one for him, and he will often declare Gild policy as House policy. He is highly respected in Merinitia circles, and often speaks to protect faeries from molestation or mundane encroachment.

Archmaga *Vinaria* of House Merinitia, of the covenant of Irencillia, is highly respected throughout the tribunal. Former Prima of Merinitia, she is considered the most advanced in the House's Mysteries. Since her return from what was considered her Final Twilight she has not tried to depose Handri, but many feel she is his superior in every way.

Archmagus *Urgen* of House Bjornaer, from the covenant of Crintera, is widely respected and feared. Former Primus of Bjornaer, he is considered one of the most powerful magi of the Order, his wisdom stemming from the deepest roots of the primeval magical forests of Germany. He has lately resigned as Primus after being rebuked at Tribunal for killing and driving off mundanes, and now devotes his time to leading the Hawthorn Gild, promoting the sanctity of nature and pushing for a more active role in defending the wilderness. His views extend to reclaiming lost natural places, including Faerie auras which he claims are a pollution of a Magical aura, a view that does not endear him to Merinitia magi. Even his supporters concede that he is warmongering and hot-headed, but he is also an impressive, powerful man with piercing wisdom and great knowledge.

*Henri de Tours* of House Jerbiton, of the covenant of Ocularum, is seen by more and more magi as the voice of the future in the tribunal. He leads the covenant of Ocularum in the trade city of Lubeck, where he is known as a merchant prince. He further leads the Apple Gild, which is growing in influence. Henri and his supporters espouse humility before god, and knowing one's place within mundane society. They say that magi can, and should, ingratiate themselves into mundane society, and in time gain acceptance just like merchants or other not-so-holy mundanes. Henri's detractors see him as a greedy man whose dangerous ideas may bring ruin to the whole Order. His supporters see him as a visionary paving the way to the future.

*Daria La Gris* of House Tremere, leader of the covenant of Triamore, is another key figure in Apple politics. Like Henri, she supports a more lenient interpretation of the Code to allow interactions with mundanes. Unlike him, she is not impressed with mundane religion or scholarship, and simply seeks to live in her castle as a lord would in his, claiming that by doing so she is not interfering with mundane society at all. Essentially, she expects the mundanes to just come to terms with the fact that a wizard, rather than a noble, controls the covenant and its lands; although she does not couch it in such terms. She is seen as a politically shrewed player, as evidenced by her keen leadership of Triamore that somehow always managed to escape Quaesitor censure. Her influence is strong in some parts of the Apple Gild, and extends to other Gilds and even Tribunals.

Archmagus *Philipus Niger* of House Flmabeau, from the covenant of Durenmar, is probably the most feared magus in the tribunal. He leads the Ash Gild, which under his leadership has exposed and Marched several Enemies of the Order, and pushed several landmark Tribunal decisions condoning overt use of magic. His bloody reputation and mastery of Perdo has won him respect and fear throughout the Order, but those who get to know him speak of a man deeply troubled over the threats to the Order, a man whose thoughts span decades and centuries and with an abiding love and loyalty to the Order. His detractors whisper quietly that this man is also insane, consumed with bloodlust, and has lost any connection to the true threats to the Order. He current concern is the Order of Odin, which he is convinced functions covertly even as south as the northern Rhine river, and forms the only serious long-term threat to the Order's very survival.

*Iacov* of House Merinitia, from the covenant of Irencillia, is Handri's filius and the official leader of the Elder Gild. He is widely seen as a weak figure (though capable magus), a mouthpiece for Handri. He is as secretive as his parens, and less respected.

Archmagus *Caecilius* of House Bonisagus, from the covenant of Durenmar, is the senior Quaesitor and the greatest living exponent of Intellego in the Order. In later years he has limited his activity to Tribunals and is reluctant to use magic, but his keen insights and unscrupulous reputation remain solid.  

*Tamdaline* of House Bonisagus and the covenant of Durenmar is notable as she is Murion's right hand. She maintains correspondence with all Bonisagus magi, and is an influential figure in her House and, to some extent, the Oak Gild.

*Andrus* of House Bonisagus is the chief librarian of Durenmar, controlling access to the Great Library. This earns him a measure of respect as none want to cross him, but he is generally thought to be a weak man under Murion's power and overly consumed with library duties to bring his, admittedly brilliant, mind to bear on magical research. 

*Horst* is the senior Redcap of the tribunal, overseeing the Mercer House in Fengheld. He is also renowned for his writing quality, and his clear books on the foundations of Magic Theory are known to any apprentice in the Tribunal. Although he isn't Gifted, Horst is greatly respected and his council and perfect memory often sought at Tribunal.

*Eule* of House Bjornaer from Fengheld covenant is renowned for her great wisdom and good advice. She was once the senior Quaesitor, but retired. She now spends all her time in her owl (heartbeast) form, and her filius (Gunther Lupus) is required to communicate with her.

*Phyllia* of House Bjornaer is the gossip of the tribunal, traveling in eagle form all over the tribunal exchanging gossip. Every Bjornaer magus is sure to meet her at least once a year, and even non-Bjornaer magi are often graced by her visit. She has a talent for luring even the most stubborn magus into a conversation, but many do their best to avoid her as they feel she is spying for Crintera and her House.

*Adea* of House Bjornaer from Crintera is renown for her foresight and divinatory powers. She is considered one of the most powerful seers of the Order.

Archmagus *Igor Rastvan* of House Ex Miscellanea from Rostov covenant may very well be the only Ex Miscellanea archamagus in the Order. He is a devout pagan Slav, a master of elemental powers, and a friend of Philipus Niger and member in the Ash Gild.

Archmagus *Schwall* of House Bjornaer is an eremite renowned for his understanding of Bjornaer Mysteries. His whereabouts are unknown, but he occasionally attends Tribunal.

There are four more archmagi in the tribunal, intentionally left vague at this point, as well as other magi that may come to bear. The above list also fails to note some of the covenant's leaders, when these do not have a wider influence.[/sblock]


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Synopsis*

The Black Stag attacked a redcap, and was disuaded from furthering his assult. Drawing seven lines in the ground, it retreated to the forest's depths. After the night's rest and some discussion, the magi all made a binding oath, founding Teneo. They interrogated the redcap, and put together an expedition that is even now headed towards a nearby pagan village...


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Rules*

We use the rules in *Ars Magica Fifth Edition*, plus the rules of *Guardians of the Forest: The Rhine Tribunal*. In addition, we use the Temper system, detailed below.
When making a character, follow the rules of AM5, choose a Gild, and assign Tempers to personality traits. You may take the Gild Trained virtue from GotF.

Tempers: [sblock]*Tempers*
Although you may choose any Personality Trait that you want in Ars Magica 5th Edition, I ask that you assign each personality trait to a Temper. There are seven tempers, each corresponding to a virtue and one of the seven deadly sins; positive personality traits relate to the virtue, negative ones relate to the sin. Tempers exist mainly to aid you in obtaining a more medieval mindset when roleplaying your character, and like normal personality traits they usually do not affect your character mechanically.
Nevertheless, rarely (about once per adventure) I will ask you to make a Temper check. In this case choose and roll the most fitting personality trait in that Temper; if you have assigned no personality trait to this Temper, it is considered zero. If you think no personality trait that you have in the Temper applies, I may approve a zero regardless of your other personality traits in the Temper. If you have a positive personality trait in the temper, you may automatically succeed the test; if you have a negative one, you may automatically fail it (yes, if you have both you may do either). Otherwise, roleplay success or failure at the check appropriately.
The seven Tempers, and example personality traits for each, are as follows:

*Loyal* (Faith/Pride): Loyalty applies in situations where the character is called to follow orders or aid another who has just reason to expect his aid. It governs fidelity and faithfulness, but is most appropriate when a character is called upon to fulfill an obligation to one who is worthy. It stems from Faith, the theological virtue that describes devotion to God and belief in His plan. In contrast, a proud man considers himself better than others, perhaps even than God, and tends to forsake such obligations thinking he knows better. This is the cardinal sin of Pride, which signifies that he is more confidant in his own abilities than in divine will. Many magi fall to this vice.
Positive Specialties: Dedicated, Faithful, Humble, Reliable, Trusting
Negative Specialties: Arrogant, Haughty, Proud, Rebellious, Vain
*Tolerant* (Hope/Wrath): Tolerance applies in situations where the character is called on to show understanding, belief in others, and overcoming violence and hate. A tolerant character promotes discussion, encourages debate, and seeks a common ground. It stems from Hope, the theological virtue that represents the confidence that God will do right and will watch and provide for those who follow him. In contrast, an intolerant man shows violence, hate, and anger. This is the cardinal sin of Wrath, which is a violent reaction to adversity that is based in fear or despair. The wrathful man does not have confidence that God will deliver him from the source of his misery, and is thus tempted to act violently to do so himself.
Positive Specialties: Cheerful, Hopeful, Gentle, Patient, Peaceful
Negative Specialties: Angry, Desperate, Spiteful, Vengeful, Violent
*Kind* (Charity/Envy): Kindness applies in situations where the character is called on to help others through hardship, make them more comfortable, and otherwise do good to others. A kind character is filled with love and feeling for his fellow man, sees to the needy, looks after strangers, and cares for the sick. It stems from Charisty, the theological virtue of doing God's work by giving as much of oneself as possible. In contrast, an unking person desires to hurt or punish others for their forture. His acts are cruel and hurtful, designed to hurt others more than to help himself. This is the capital vice of Envy, which is a person's jealous desire to lower those he considers more fortunate than himself.
Positive Specialties: Charitable, Compassionate, Forgiving, Merciful, Nice
Negative Specialties: Crul, Envious, Gruff, Jealous, Meddlesome
*Brave* (Courage/Sloth): Bravery applies in situations where the characters is called on to hold his ground, maintain his position in the face of adversity. A brave character persists and pursues what he thinks is right no matter what the risk, and is not easily swayed by fear or fatigue. He might undergo a dangeours adventure, work hard and long on an important task, or toil tirelessly to feed his family. It stems from Courage, the cardinal virtue that signifies the characger finds the heart to strive for better and greater things. In contrast, a lazy character does not do what she seeks to do due to fear of failure or consequences, or lack of willpower to overcome difficulties (however trivial). This is the capital vice of Sloth, which like wrath originates in fear but concerns a cowardly reaction to it.
Positive Specialties: Bold, Couragous, Determined, Ready, Zealous
Negative Specialties: Cowardly, Cynical, Indecisive, Lazy, Shy
*Wise* (Prudence/Lust): Wisdom is called upon in situations where the character should think tihngs over, and see past wishful thinking and presupposition. A wise man knows right from wrong, and his reason triumphs over his base desires. He conducts his way to ward off temptation, folly, and limit exposure to his weaknesses. It stems from Prudence, the cardinal virtue that signifies the character is practical and chaste, mindful of the consequences of his actions more than the fulfillment of fleeting impulses. In contrast, a foolish man succumbs to his physical desires in reckles abandon, and throws caution to the wind. He lets his reason be clouded by his imagaination, and pursues fake mirages with little if any truth to them. This is the cardinal vice of Lust, which is giving in to one's desire with no caution or thought. It can indicate a love of carnal pleasures, but also for some fantasy, being unable to treat people and things as they truly are.
Positive Specialties: Careful, Cautios, Chaste, Practical, Prudent
Negative Specialties: Fanatical, Lustful, Naive, Overcofident, Reckless
*Strong* (Temperance/Gluttony): Strength of will is called upon in situations where the character must overcome his wants and do without. A strong man has self control, and is thus better able to resist temptation. It stems from the cardinal virtue of Temperance, which is moderation and restraint. In contrast, a gluttnous man cannot be satisfied. He constantly craves more riches, finer living, more powre, greater luxury, or so on. This is the cardinal vice of Gluttony, which is overinulgence. A glutton is an addict.
Positive Specialties: Content, Cautious, Chaste, Practical, Prudent
Negative Specialties: Gluttonous, Induelgent, Selfish, Weak
*Just* (Justive/Avarice): Just applies in situations involving fairness, and the character's decision to do what is right despite of his own wants. Just characters give others their due, and don't try to deprive them of what they are entiteled to. It stems from the cardinal virtue of Justice, which is a recognition of truth and honor for everyone. In contrast, an unjust man seeks to acquire things regardless of codes of conduct, stealing and cheating to gain them. This is the capital vice of Avarice, a desire for more than one's share.
Positive Specialties: Even-handed, Fair, Honest, Honorable, Straightforward
Negative Specialties: Ambitious, Cunning, Devious, Greedy, Manipulative

Example: Joe is a stalwart warrior with a weakness for pretty woman. His player decides to give him the personality trait "smitten +3". The DM proceeds to chastise him, demanding a Temper. Looking over the list, Lust seems like the leading factor, and is the sin associated with the temper Wise, so the personality trait is translated to a negative temper. The character has the temper "Wise (easily smitten) -3".[/sblock]


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## Yair (Sep 21, 2005)

*Characters At The Scene*

*Magi*: Titus [MummyKitty], Valeria [Nzld]
*Companions*: Volkmar [Nzld] (out of village), Malloc [Strahd]
*Militant Grogs*: Lukas the Hunter [Strahd].
*Covenfolk*: Matthius the Brewer [MummyKitty], Pavel the Shapeshifter [Kajamba Lion], Puck the Goblin-Blooded (out of village)
*NPCs*: None.

You control your own Magus and Companion at all times (assuming they are at the scene), and may control any grog or covenfolk with the the following exceptions:

Matthius the Brewer is controlled only by MummyKitty.
Lukas the Hunter, controlled only by Strahd.
Pavel the Shapeshifter, controlled by Kajamba Lion for this scene.

Feel free to assume NPC reactions in your posts, and even to presume trivial PC reactions, to speed up the gameplay.


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## Yair (Oct 6, 2005)

*A brief note on pagan deities*

In ArM5, faeries arise from human belief. The more the tale is told, the more faith people have in it, the more it comes to life. Pagan deities are typically powerful faeries that come into being from the belief of the pagans. Note that they have a very real existence, and may not fade as belief in them does.

Your characters have encountered the Black Stag, a companion of a powerful pagan deity (the Horned God, Veles) and hence apparently a being on par with, say, the Archangel Michael. This is misleading.
Your characters encountered *a* manifestation of the Black Stag, not *the* Black Stag. It is borne out of local belief (past or present) and tales of the god Veles and his minions, and carries a weight and might commensurate with such local (and thus, limited) belief. It may still be immensly powerful, or may be fairly weak, depending on many factors, but it is not as powerful as its stature of a companion to a chief deity would imply.
Similarly, if you should chance to meet Veles himself you probably won't be meeting the true pagan god, but rather a local manifestation of him. A good measure of the might is where he resides. The true pagan god, in his full might, resides in Arcadia. Lesser spirits reside in lesser Faerie auras. For example, a "black stag" found in a level 1 faerie aura will likely be but a poor shadow of the true beast, with little if any might and power.
All manifestations are linked in a sense. It is possible for the Veles of one place to know of the dealings of another, and in a sense all are a reflection of the Veles that resides in Arcadia. Nevertheless, each is a seperate entity and acts independently and often in ignorance of the others' doings.

Not all pagan deities are faeries. Pagans worship several creatures of Magical might, including (in times past) Mercury/Hermes, or even dragons. These are rarer, but perhaps of greater interest to Hermetic magi.
Other pagan deities are Infernal in origin. These are rather rare, to the best knowledge of the Order, although one should note it is impossible to tell the difference between a powerful faerie and devil (as devils can fool Intellego magic).


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## Yair (Oct 6, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> 1.Can i cast a spontenous divine spell to uncover the secret if this is "The" stag or if this "a" stag.



Not quite.
You CAN cast a spell to determine whether the creature is a Divine creature, that is whether it is aligned with the Divine supernatural realm. But being a pagan deity's minion that's highly unlikely (he will be a creature of Faerie Might, most likely). You can also use your Sense Holiness & Unholiness ability to sense this; it shows you that it doesn't appear to be either a demon or an angel.
You can also cast a spontanous spell to try to discern the creature's Might. This isn't particularly easy for you, see "Weakl Spontanous Magic" on your character sheet (explained on the last page). I'll work out this spell and see if you can manage it this evening.
Your strength lies in your Formulaic spells; you're good at them. Of these, Panic of the Elephant's Mouse seems the only applicable one; you are all but certain to successfully cast it but will need some luck on the dice to penetrate the stag's magic resistance (assuming he has a weak magic resistance; MR of 15+ is beyond you).


> 2. Can you list the companios and grogs in the OOC thread so I can pickup a favor one to role play, maximum ... just invent one.



Will do; see above, I've edited one of the empty places to always list the current party at the scene.


> 3.maybe you should email Olive and tell him to join, try to recruit another one



Olive hasn't been around ENWorld for a while now. Considering his high post rate and count, I assume he has some real-life or connectivity issues preventing him from participating at this point. For now, I'll NPC him mildly until the situation is better cleared out.
As for recruiting another... I'll resurrect the recruitment thread, but I have little hope.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 6, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> In ArM5, faeries arise from human belief. The more the tale is told, the more faith people have in it, the more it comes to life. Pagan deities are typically powerful faeries that come into being from the belief of the pagans. Note that they have a very real existence, and may not fade as belief in them does.
> 
> Your characters have encountered the Black Stag, a companion of a powerful pagan deity (the Horned God, Veles) and hence apparently a being on par with, say, the Archangel Michael. This is misleading.
> Your characters encountered *a* manifestation of the Black Stag, not *the* Black Stag. It is borne out of local belief (past or present) and tales of the god Veles and his minions, and carries a weight and might commensurate with such local (and thus, limited) belief. It may still be immensly powerful, or may be fairly weak, depending on many factors, but it is not as powerful as its stature of a companion to a chief deity would imply.
> ...



 Yair, thanks for the summary of how the stag and faerie / pagan gods work.  I tried to have Titus's actions and words reflect an imperfect understanding of this (well, because that is what I had myself!), when he called it a minion of the faerie god, etc.  In reality, what he guessed given the beast's huge size and obvious supernatural properties, was that this was some kind of spirit of the forest, perhaps an avatar of a god or one of the god's servants-- he may not have been sure it was Cernunnus at all, of course.  But, as you say, it's real enough so hopefully it doesn't decide to have an extra dinner tonight!


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## Yair (Oct 6, 2005)

Gasparius is able to cast up to level 4 Intellego Vim spells [in the covenant's +4 aura], which means he is just able to perceive whether the Stag is an immensly powerful Faerie [see the spell below]. He isn't able to determine its strength generally [see the second spell below]. 
If you decide to use the [first] spell, read the spoiler below. Either way, post so I'll know what's up.

*Percieve the Faerie of Might* InVi 4
R: Sight, D: Mom, T: Ind
You are able to sense the Faerie Might of the target to within one magnitude, but only if it is of “godly” power (Faerie Might 50 or more). Generally, the spell does not need to penetrate the creature’s Magic Resistance to detect it but the SG may rule otherwise for specific creatures if he feels their nature would protect them from the magic (for example, a faerie doppleganger taking the form of another character).
(Design: Base 1, +3 Sight)

*Percieve the Might of the Faerie* InVi 20
R: Sight, D: Mom, T: Ind
You are able to sense the Faerie Might of the target to within one magnitude. Generally, the spell does not need to penetrate the creature’s Magic Resistance to detect it but the SG may rule otherwise for specific creatures if he feels their nature would protect them from the magic (for example, a faerie doppleganger taking the form of another character).
(Design: Base 5, +3 Sight)

[sblock]The stag does not appear to be a faerie of such stupendous Might; it might still be a less powerful faerie or a being of another realm.[/sblock]

I'll be making the next post tomorrow, I hope to see your response before then.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 7, 2005)

*You ment Gorgamesh in the last post, not Gasparius*


			
				Yair said:
			
		

> You can also cast a spontanous spell to try to discern the creature's Might. This isn't particularly easy for you, see "Weakl Spontanous Magic" on your character sheet (explained on the last page). I'll work out this spell and see if you can manage it this evening.



EDIT: - Yair those spell you wrought up there ment for me ? If not I'll update my post


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## MummyKitty (Oct 7, 2005)

Actually, I was trying to call out to our wayward Gasparius... sorry, I should have been clearer.... shall I edit the post?  Thanks Strahd!


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## Yair (Oct 7, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> *You ment Gorgamesh in the last post, not Gasparius*
> 
> EDIT: - Yair those spell you wrought up there ment for me ? If not I'll update my post



Arrg, yes, I meant Gorgamesh. Sorry.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 9, 2005)

Titus is officially trying to talk the stag to death.


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## Yair (Oct 11, 2005)

Our newest member, Nzld, has susggested a maga character with sexual overtones. Suffice it to say she is known as "the whore of Durenmar" (Roy, she is kinda like Shir's Charlotte). Would that be a problem to anyone?
She also has some knowledge of medicine and healing spells, so could come in handy under the circumstances.
If no one has any objections, I suggest we allow the character to arrive shortly, just before or during the magi's meeting.

Also, MummyKitty, your grog Matthius has some Pomeranian lore to contribute; I'll email it to you tonight or tomorrow.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 11, 2005)

Sure,  I have no problem with Nzld's character. I liked it same as I liked shir's characters i our D&D campaigns ... hopefuly to be born again someday.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 12, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Our newest member, Nzld, has susggested a maga character with sexual overtones. Suffice it to say she is known as "the whore of Durenmar" (Roy, she is kinda like Shir's Charlotte). Would that be a problem to anyone?
> She also has some knowledge of medicine and healing spells, so could come in handy under the circumstances.
> If no one has any objections, I suggest we allow the character to arrive shortly, just before or during the magi's meeting.
> 
> Also, MummyKitty, your grog Matthius has some Pomeranian lore to contribute; I'll email it to you tonight or tomorrow.



 I've got no issues with Nzld's character.  This is convent of misfit Magus it seems....


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## Yair (Oct 12, 2005)

In this case, I suggest it is a good moment for Nzld's maga to make her grand entrance.

I am not going to further the plot for a while, I want you to decide on what you want to do next.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 13, 2005)

Yair, how would you like to flesh out the complement of other grogs and companions in the convent?  I've only seen my character sheets for my characters -- magus, grog and companion.  I think you posted the number of people in the convent... should we divide and conquer or do you have some sketches for who the other people are?  I'm happy to come up with more character concepts for NPCs or go by what you might have, or collaborate with everyone on the roster.  I admit my characters were come up with in a bit of a vaccuum... for example, I never really intended Hakon to be a leader of the grogs / men at arms, but now it looks like he might be?

Also, as far as lay of the land, is there a rough sketch map of this area?  Shall we just make up the plan for the convent based on the descriptions you've already given?

Just want to get a little better idea of expectations.  I suppose we can have the scene of the arrival of Nzld's character and the meeting of the magus first.

Thanks!


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## MummyKitty (Oct 13, 2005)

Sorry I should have looked at all the updates above!  That renders the first part of my post moot.  

Excellet arrival, Nzld!

Will post again soon...


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## Yair (Oct 13, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Yair, how would you like to flesh out the complement of other grogs and companions in the convent?  I've only seen my character sheets for my characters -- magus, grog and companion.  I think you posted the number of people in the convent... should we divide and conquer or do you have some sketches for who the other people are?  I'm happy to come up with more character concepts for NPCs or go by what you might have, or collaborate with everyone on the roster.  I admit my characters were come up with in a bit of a vaccuum... for example, I never really intended Hakon to be a leader of the grogs / men at arms, but now it looks like he might be?



It is my intention that you run all the covenant's characters and buisness. I do not intend to design any covenant characters. As posts #7 and #2 in this thread suggest, the number of participants in the covenant is rather limited to begin with, so this shouldn't require too much work.
When making characters, keep the size of the covenant in mind. (And BTW, you need a cook, cleaning maid...)
Speaking of covenant buisness... you know what, I'll raise those issues IC.



> Also, as far as lay of the land, is there a rough sketch map of this area?  Shall we just make up the plan for the convent based on the descriptions you've already given?



I'm afraid my mapping skills are rather rudimentary. I was actually hoping to get a good map of Germany, but this is not to be... perhaps for the better. At any rate, feel free to elaborate, design, and so on based on my descriptions, or ask for more descriptions.



> Just want to get a little better idea of expectations.



Of course, no problem.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 13, 2005)

Hi Yair,

Thanks for the clarification.  Here is my list of characters so far:

Militant Grogs (Men at Arms, Turb, etc):
1. Volkmar (Nzld)
2. Heinrich (Nzld)
3. Hakon (Mummy) (he's really a woodsman but could fight)

Coven Folk
1. Old Magd (Nzld)
2. Hans (Strahd) - Carpenter (he could be one of the "on loan" characters from Fengheld)
3. Mattihus (Mummy)- Gardener
4. Baldermar (Nzld) - ?
5. Open
6. Open

Loaned covenfolk (assume these will go away back to Fengheld once the convent is set up more):

~Six slots here


Strahd, Nzld, please chime in and let's discuss who will make which character. Strahd, not sure if you intended Hans to be one of your official characters or if you were just grabbing a random grog.  Hans could be a loaned character leaving another slot for you to take.  You'll also need a companion I suppose.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!


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## Nzld (Oct 13, 2005)

*Characters*

I already have Heinrich and Baldermar worked up... and Yair and I have negotiated a finalized version for Old Magd.

I mentioned before I have the Metacreator program he is using, so it is not difficult at all for me to throw grogs together. If you guys don't have the time to do it pen-and-paper and get it all typed up for Yair, you can just send me the concepts you have in mind with any particulars you definitely want in place, and I can work up the rest and send him the files.

There are two full grog slots available which, as Yair mentioned, may have to be filled with domestic servants such as a cook, maid, etc. Let me know your thoughts for that, but consider that we could survive on hunted game for a time, and perhaps acquire the domestic servants IC from the local area.

Also, there is 5 points still available for Specialists. We should decide what that should be.  We could make that the cook, as he isn't likely to be an "adventuring" cook... unless one or more of the magi have, um, shall we say, exotic appetites.

P.S. Baldermar is essentially a thief and a scoundrel.

P.S.S.  My understanding is that the true grogs are to be employed in troupe-style play, correct? Or is the intent that we will each control specific grogs?


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## Yair (Oct 13, 2005)

Good news! I've talked (well, corresponded) with Olive, who says he would become available and rejoin the game in about two weeks. 
That means that the tally of PC magi goes to 4, and to commensurate the occasion I hearby raise the character slots to 4 militant grogs and 8 covenfolk.
No, it doesn't mean you get more Build Points. 

Accordingly, I'll post Gasparius's response to Valeria's arrival later today. I'll be NPCing him until Olive can join us.

All grog characters, turb and covenfolk, are intended to be played in troupe-style play (i.e. anyone and everyone can play them). If anyone wants to, however, they can at any stage choose to exclusively control one, temporarily or permanently. Just post a note to this effect; without such notice, the default assumption in the saga is that anyone can play a grog character.

Good to see you orchestrating the grogs. 
If you wish to make any changes in the covenant's stats, this is also a good time to do so (before it is founded and hence those stats are put in use). I'm gonna be a sticker for the 233 Build Points figure, but these can be juggled between the different categories, or their content changed.
(The covenant's stats are given at post #2, in the "spoiler" tag.)

Edit: I've added a build point. Oh, my boundless generosity...


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 13, 2005)

You can add Rodolf - Our German Shef. he is not on loan

Yair - I want to build (with your help) a companion, possibely a person I knew from my past
who isn't affraid of my appearence. he can be a ranger or something ....


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## Nzld (Oct 13, 2005)

*Covenant Thoughts*

I think the overal distribution of points is fine, though we need to begin defining the specifics of the library.

Following are the Art summae and tractatus we are alloted, along with a few recommendations for them:

Art Summa L15, Q12   -   Corpus
Art Summa L12, Q12   -   Vim
Art Summa L6, Q21     -   Animal (or a Technique)
Tractatus Q11           -   Terram
Tractatus Q10           -   Mentem
Tractatus Q10           -   Rego
Tractatus Q9             -   Imaginem

For the lab texts, I recommend we split the 200 points and each character select about 50 points worth.

Yair, may we select lab texts for invested powers, or do you just want these to be for spells?

We are only allocated a single summa for abilities - at L4, Q10. Unless someone has a particular desire for a specific mundane skill - or Yair objects - I recommend we take this on Parma Magica.

Yair, for the vis source, do we have to decide on either Terram, Rego, or Vim.. or can it be a mix?

As a Verditius, Vim is obviously important to my character, and is likewise necessary for the Aegis of the Hearth ritual, so my recommendation would be, depending on Yair's response, either 4 pawns of Vim  per year, or 1 Terram, 1 Rego, & 2 Vim  per year.

Then there is the final 5 points of Specialist. I recommend we take a 'Profession: Steward' or something similar to handle the day to day running of the covenant, or a 'Craft: Blacksmithing' to provide another craftsman. This, of course, is assuming no one intends to create a grog-character to fulfill one or both of these roles.


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## Nzld (Oct 13, 2005)

*Grog Slot*

For one of the additional grog slots, I propose a scribe character with a little knowledge in Magic Theory, to assist in translating spells, copying tomes and texts, etc.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 14, 2005)

I've got no objections to Nzld's ideas so far.  Admittedly I am not as familiar with the magical convent rules and stats, so you can definitely take the lead there. I've also not played an Ars Magica campaign before, only single adventures, so even the experience rules are not that familiar to me.

Titus is a book fiend and would be interested in growing both the magical library as well as the mundane text collection.

I'd like to be the primary player for my grog / companion characters (Hakon and Mattihus) as much as possible, but I think it's fine for anyone else to do things with them if necessary.  Mattihus in particular is a gossipy sort so he should always be around trying to listen in, and then tell other people things he overhears.  It would probably be best if others got some of his "secret" messages from the lore he knows every once in a while so they can think of clever and fun ways to disseminate the knowledge.

It sounds like Strahd has the cook covered, and I like the idea of having a blacksmith and scribe.  I'd like to contribute at least one more grog character concept.

Good to hear Olive is still in!


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 14, 2005)

I'll rule Rodolf the cook and the carpenter, beside being a carpenter, Hans can be the maintanance man over the covenant and fix things.
Regarding Nzld idea for a scriber - sounds useful for us.

As for the distribution of the arcane points - I'm as Mummy, my knowledge in ArM rules is quite low, the only things I remember is the few rules I learned when trying to play Tabletop ArM with Yair a few years ago, so Yair - try to rule on Gorgamesh side as well.


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## Yair (Oct 14, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Yair - I want to build (with your help) a companion, possibely a person I knew from my past who isn't affraid of my appearence. he can be a ranger or something ....



Alright. Can you give me more details?
Although BTW, Volkmar kinda fits the description...


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## Yair (Oct 14, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Tractatus Q11           -   Terram
> Tractatus Q10           -   Mentem
> Tractatus Q10           -   Rego
> Tractatus Q9             -   Imaginem



Note you can switch a tractatus (or several) to cover an Ability instead of an Art, if you want.



> Yair, may we select lab texts for invested powers, or do you just want these to be for spells?



Invested powers are cool.



> Yair, for the vis source, do we have to decide on either Terram, Rego, or Vim.. or can it be a mix?



You can mix it anyway you want.



> Then there is the final 5 points of Specialist.



Oh? Then I must have miscalculated something, I don't remember leaving this leeway...


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## Yair (Oct 14, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> As for the distribution of the arcane points - I'm as Mummy, my knowledge in ArM rules is quite low, the only things I remember is the few rules I learned when trying to play Tabletop ArM with Yair a few years ago, so Yair - try to rule on Gorgamesh side as well.



Ahm, well, I'll look over the suggestions and see if I can make suggestions from Gorgamesh's viewpoint later.


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## Nzld (Oct 14, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Oh? Then I must have miscalculated something, I don't remember leaving this leeway...




You have...

? the Carpenter: Craft (Carpenter) 10
? the Bookmaker: Craft (Books) 5, Profession (Scribe) 7
? the Handyman: Profession (Handyman) 8 

... which, when all added up, totals 30, but my understanding of how Specialists are calculated is that only the highest skill of each Specialist is counted in the cost, not all of the skills.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 14, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Alright. Can you give me more details?
> Although BTW, Volkmar kinda fits the description...




What about Hermit, some kind of pagan monk ... the only one who was my friend.
30-35 yo' man from Poland, very kind and tollerance, smart and good in nature.
when Gorgamesh was in Durenmar he met him in the forests around and he found the hermir as the only person that he can speak freely and talk to.
he can be ranger, druid or just a simple woodsman who lost his family and went to the forest to live with the animals.
Now, he can help in the covenant with raising herds and take care of animals, that could be a nice edition to the covenant folk.


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## Nzld (Oct 14, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> What about Hermit, some kind of pagan monk ... the only one who was my friend.
> 30-35 yo' man from Poland, very kind and tollerance, smart and good in nature.
> when Gorgamesh was in Durenmar he met him in the forests around and he found the hermir as the only person that he can speak freely and talk to.
> he can be ranger, druid or just a simple woodsman who lost his family and went to the forest to live with the animals.
> Now, he can help in the covenant with raising herds and take care of animals, that could be a nice edition to the covenant folk.



Strahd,

Yair's concern regarding our companions is that the actual companion we each play should not be so closely tied to our own magus. In normal play, we shouldn't expect to play both our magus AND our companion together on the same adventure, so the companion characters should have ties to other player magi or to the covenant in general.

He expressed similar concerns to me regarding Volkmar and Valeria, sensing a direct connection between them, but we have discussed it and I think he now understands my intent behind Volkmar.

For any companion, you have to make two assumptions: 1) the companion will have to adventure with other player magi, and 2) the companion will never adventure with your own magus (though this may not always be true in play, it is the general rule of thumb).

The hermit you propose would have problems on both accounts... i.e. you are establishing him as someone who shuns society and just happens to have befriended Gorgamesh, and therefore, might be willing to travel and associate with Gorgamesh, but how and why would he extend that companionship to other wizards.

The term "companion" can be misleading when you are having to come up with characters, especially due to the tendency to want to create a link between your own magus character and your companion character, but a "companion" doesn't literally have to be a buddy or friend of any magus, and, if he is, then it should be to a different player's magus.

Ultimately, you have to think of it like this: the companion character you create is the main character you will play when you are NOT playing your magus. So, assume that 3 adventures out of 4 you will be playing this character, and not your wizard. Is this hermit really the character you want to play that often?

Also, you mention that the hermit can "help in the covenant with raising herds and take care of animals". That is a fine enough task for a grog/covenfolk, or even a specialist, but is that a character you want to roleplay on a continuing basis?

If you really like the idea of having an associate of Gorgamesh like that, think about making him as a grog, rather than a companion... for the most part a grog can have the same skill sets (just fewer virtues and flaws), yet will not be a central character to the story. A grog can be played periodically, when convenient, and (possibly) by different players.

Now, regarding Volkmar... Yair's idea is that perhaps Volkmar and Gorgamesh can develop a report due to their similar physical flaws and, thus, repulsive natures. This serves the purpose of linking my companion to your magus, and thus, provides a stronger motive for them to adventure together (though Volkmar is a servant of the covenant itself, and will be adventuring with any magus he is so ordered to).


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## Nzld (Oct 14, 2005)

*Lab Texts & Tomes*



			
				Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> As for the distribution of the arcane points - I'm as Mummy, my knowledge in ArM rules is quite low, the only things I remember is the few rules I learned when trying to play Tabletop ArM with Yair a few years ago, so Yair - try to rule on Gorgamesh side as well.



I don't mind fleshing out this information in full. If you guys just want to give me some ideas of what spells (or types of spells) you might be considering for the future development of your character, I will incorporate them into the selection as best as possible... otherwise, I'll just pick a selection of "core" Hermetic spells that would likely be available to a Spring covenant. 200 points doesn't go a long way, afterall.

For the summa and tractatus, I tried to take all the magi in consideration. 3 of 4 have some interest (i.e. points alloted) in Corpus, and everyone put at least a few points into Vim, so I selected those as the primary summae. The last summae, being such a low level, isn't of major use to anyone's specialty, so I figured a general Art (Animal) or a Technique would be suitable, since we are most under 6 in those. The next major focus was Terram, for Titus, which I gave as the highest tractatus, and then Mentem, which, once again, 3 out of 4 have a indicated interest in. Rego was for the benefit of Gasparius, the only apparent Technique-specialist amongst us, and finally, the Imaginem tractatus was just a throw in... it can be changed if anyone prefers something specific.


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## Yair (Oct 14, 2005)

Nzld, your last three posts are amazingly well crafted.

Regarding the specialists, I figured you pay for the skill set rather than the characters (as they are just names plus a skill score by the rules); so I just added these up. But you're right, but the rules it should be the highest skill.

Regarding Strahd's Companion, Nzld said it better than I can. Roy, I recommend trying to come up with a companion to another PC as your Companion character.

Regarding the books, Nzld's decision seems so articulate and considered I feel I have no need to go over Gorgameshe's stats myself.     I will, later, but I doubt that will change his obviously well-considered choices.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 14, 2005)

hmmmm.... you have a point
I'll think on someone else.
thanks.


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## Nzld (Oct 14, 2005)

*Companion Suggestions*



			
				Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> hmmmm.... you have a point
> I'll think on someone else.
> thanks.



Just some thoughts you might take under consideration... the two existing companions (Volkmar and Hakon) are both combat-oriented characters, and both are lacking in social ability... Volkmar because of his deformities and wardrobe style, and Hakon because of his nationality and cultural differences. Therefore, neither are ideal for assisting magi in dealing with mundanes in typical social settings. Though some of the grogs have social skills that can be used in this regard, you might consider a companion created along those lines.

Alternately, if you prefer a ranger-styled character (as you mentioned), you might make a character specializing in bow, hunt, and survival skills, with appropriate area lore skills, and possibly the Animal Ken and/or Wildernes Sense supernatural virtue(s).

A pagan "druid" could also be viable, though I daresay he would be a druid in name only and have no true magical power (other than what supernatural virtues you grant him). Still, he could be expert in the local traditions, fae, locale, etc.  Valeria would likely have an interest in him, as part of my OOC intent for her is to investigate ancient pagan sexual practices, fertility rites and such, and try to incorporate them more directly into Hermetic magic. 

Both the ranger and druid concept, I feel, might be better served by having a companion who is from the local area join the covenant, as opposed to already knowing any of the magi and having come from Fengheld or Durenmar. One problem to consider here, however, is the presence of the Knights of the Sword, who have curtailed pagan activity in this area. You might confer with Yair to see what options are viable, but if the druid is preserving the ancient ways, he likely has been in hiding, and that may very well be why he seeks asylum with the covenant. Also, if he has any connection to the old druids of House Diedne, that could prove interesting (albeit dangerous) in the long run.


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## Nzld (Oct 15, 2005)

*Character Synopisis - UPDATED*

I want to try to clear up any confusion on the nature of the various types of characters that Ars Magica utilizes. 

Companions (2 of 4 (i.e. 1 per player)):
These are primary characters played exclusively by their player (or the storyguide, when necessary).

Volkmar (militant tactician with supernatural gifts)
Hakon (militant woodsman)
x (Strahd, Trobadour)
x (Olive)


Active Grogs & Covenfolk (4 of 8):
These are the "adventuring" grogs for which a complete character sheet is necessary. These characters can be played by any player. Note: There is currently only 1 militant grog.. I think Yair is allotting us a total of 3.

Heinrich the Swordsman
Old Magd the Wise Woman
Mattius the Gardner
Baldermar the Thief
(militant grog; proposed archer)
(militant grog; proposed swordsman)
(proposed shapeshifter)
x


Specialists (30 pts. of 30)
These are non-adventuring grogs who provide essential services to the covenant, but do not require a full character sheet. They are purchased with covenant Build points. These, too, can be played by any player.

Hans the Carpenter (Carpenter 10)
Gottfried the Scribe (Scribe 7, Bookmaking 5, Magic Theory 1)
Aldrich the Handyman (Handyman 8)
Rodolf the Chef (Cook 5, Steward 2)



When contemplating characters (especially grogs and covenfolk), keep in mind whether the character is a character you expect will come into play considerably, and likely accompany magi on adventures, or if it is just a person fulfilling a need at the covenant. If the former, it will have to fill one of the remaining Grog slots... if the later, it would have to be a specialist (which have all points accounted for, but there is some room for alteration). Also, Yair mentioned we may need maids and such, but I can't see creating full grogs to fulfill this role. Unless we want to reduce some points in the existing specialists to accomodate a maid or two, I think we can just seek locals to bring on in-game.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 15, 2005)

Nzld - the cook's name is Rodolf
by the way -  I submitted a companion to Yair, it's look OK by me
he is no connected in a ny way to Gorgamesh.
he is a troubadour.


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## Nzld (Oct 15, 2005)

*Lab Texts*

Here I will post the list of lab texts I am working on...please provide any comments or suggestions.

My current selection is heavy on wards and utilitarian spells useful in the forest environment (Herbam & Animal), as well as a few typical Vim spells. I included "Shiver of the Lycanthrope" bassed on common legends and stories for this area. Finally, I tried to have at least one spell from every Form.

ANIMAL

Shiver of the Lycanthrope (InAn 10)
Ward Against the Beasts of Legend (ReAn 20)
Circle of Beast Warding (ReAn 5)

AQUAM

Ward Against Faeiries of the Water (ReAq 15)

AURAM

Ward Against Faeries of the Air (ReAu 15)

CORPUS

Purification of the Festering Wounds (CrCo 20)

HERBAM

Intuition of the Forest (InHe 10)
Ward Against Faeries of the Wood (ReHe 15)

IGNEM

Heat of the Searing Forge (CrIg 10)

IMAGINEM

Invisibility of the Standing Wizard (PeIm 15)

MENTEM

Ring of Warding Against Spirits (ReMe 15)

TERRAM

Rusted Decay of Ten Score Years (PeTe 10)

VIM

The Invisible Eye Revealed (InVi 15)
Scales of the Magical Weight (InVi 5)
Sense the Nature of Vis (InVi 5)
Aegis of the Hearth (ReVi 15)


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## MummyKitty (Oct 15, 2005)

I'm fine with the spell choices in general, they are definitely appropriate for our location and situation, which I belive the magus at Fengheld would have thought of when they stocked our library.  

For future reference, the spells Titus would eventually like to learn are (from ArM4e, sorry I don't have 5e yet):

Conjuring the Mystical Tower (CreTer 35)
Greeting the Maker (IntTer 40)
Statue to Animal (MutTer 25)
The Earth Split Asunder (RegTer 30)

Also, he wants to research an improved version of Stone Tell of the Mind that Sits (IntTerr 30, which he already knows).  This would allow him to converse and gather more information from statues or other human figures carved in stone.  In addition, he may eventually want to create an improved version of Statue to Animal (MutTer 25)
that would allow him to animate certain human statues, but of course not truly bring them to life.

I realize that these are all beyond the current level of our texts, but I just wanted to let you know what I'm interested in for future reference.

Now, someone better start learning that Ward against the beast of legend!


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## MummyKitty (Oct 15, 2005)

Another character to consider as someone for Gorgamesh to pair up with would be Mattihus.  As an older character he's seen a lot and isn't likely to be repulsed by his appearance.  Plus, as a gossip he's going to want to get and give information from everyone, even a man of few words like Gorgamesh.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 15, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Just some thoughts you might take under consideration... the two existing companions (Volkmar and Hakon) are both combat-oriented characters, and both are lacking in social ability... Volkmar because of his deformities and wardrobe style, and Hakon because of his nationality and cultural differences. Therefore, neither are ideal for assisting magi in dealing with mundanes in typical social settings. Though some of the grogs have social skills that can be used in this regard, you might consider a companion created along those lines.




Note, this area is a Danish possession during this time period.  I am not sure how much Danish culture or people are in the area... my assumption is there should be some Danish representation at certain levels, though of course it would probably be primarily German or Slavic in culture.  In general you're correct and Hakon is not going to be as good at dealing with people as others, but in certain instances he may provide a lot of assistance.  He has his reasons for wanting to be aware of what is going on in the area, but also staying in the background and not being noticed.  Also, he should primarily be viewed as a woodsman, though he does have combat capability and will certainly be ready to fight if there is a big battle (he does own gear such as chainmail, a helm, shield and longsword but these are usually kept hidden away in this personal effects.)

He would have been picked up in a nearby village to help with clearing land and building, but he hasn't been in the area long enough to really know much about it.  Learning the area is his "mission".

Just a little more background on the character....


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 16, 2005)

I'll write later the spells that Gorgamesh want to go over ....
He'll focus on -
Intellego - Vim/Corpus/Mentem
Perdo - Vim/Corpus
Rego - Vim/Corpus


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

*Vis Stocks & Supplies - UPDATED*

We still need to finalize the vis stocks and vis sources of the covenant. No one has expressed any opposition to the mix of sources I suggested, so, at least for the time being, I'll assume they are good to go. For stocks, each magus needs to select 5 pawns of vis that he particularly wants to have in stock. Yair, can you make a selection for Olive/Gasparius?


VIS SOURCES (4 Pawns/Year)

1 pawn Rego
1 pawn Terram
2 pawns Vim

VIM STOCKS (20 Pawns)

2 Creo
2 Intellego
2 Muto
2 Perdo
2 Rego

4 Corpus
2 Mentem
2 Terram
2 Vim


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 16, 2005)

Yair - I'm not familiar with the rules that Nzld used for the Vis/Source thingy she wrought.
So ... What Gorgamesh needs ?!   

you know what, I'll try to free sometime to go over the rules again, hope I have free space in my brain this days for more input, but for a while i seek help with candles


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Yair - I'm not familiar with the rules that Nzld used for the Vis/Source thingy she wrought.
> So ... What Gorgamesh needs ?!
> 
> you know what, I'll try to free sometime to go over the rules again, hope I have free space in my brain this days for more input, but for a while i seek help with candles



Strahd, in 5th Ed. you primarily only use vis to boost your spellcasting roll (to help succesfully cast a difficult spell or to increase the overall penetration), to perform rituals, or to construct magical devices. There are several other uses, but these are the primary ones.

As such, the vis most useful to your character is that attuned to the Arts most important to him (or most often utilized, anyway). If your magus wants to cast a PeCo spell and boost it with vis, he can only use either Perdo or Corpus vis to do so... in this case, having Animal vis on hand is of no use to him.

So just think about it like that and consider which spells or magical affects you might most likely need vis for.

As you mentioned in your previous post regarding Gorgamesh's direction of study, it seems that Corpus, Mentem, Vim and possibly Intellego, Perdo, and Rego would be the most useful to you at this time.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks Nzld.
now I understand, The vis enhance the bonus I get for casting the spells.
In this case I would like Intellego and Corpus as the main source
and the other as the secondery importent: Mentem, Vim , Perdo and Rego.

I didn't find it on the ArM4 book I have.


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

*Site Clarifications*

Yair,

I am not quite clear on the layout of the covenant site. Is the cliff also covered by trees, with a clearing for the standing stones and the covenant proper, or does it rise above the forest treeline entirely? I am curious as to how extensive the view is from the site, and if there are any notable features that can be seen from it (villages in the distance, etc.).

Also, you mention that it takes a little bit of a climb to reach the clifftop... how extensive is this climb? Is it a gentle climb, whereby someone might happen to climb it while strolling through the forest, or is a steeper climb, where one would pretty much have to have an intentional desire to reach the clifftop before tackling it?

As for the stone circle itself, are these just individual monoliths arranged in a ring, or are they stacked in a henge or something similar? How wide is the entire layout? How many stones are there? Is the ring complete, or are there missing/broken stones? Does the Order have any knowledge on what purpose this ring served?

Thanks,

Nzld


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Thanks Nzld.
> now I understand, The vis enhance the bonus I get for casting the spells.
> In this case I would like Intellego and Corpus as the main source
> and the other as the secondery importent: Mentem, Vim , Perdo and Rego.
> ...



I don't recall exactly where it is mentioned, but in 4th Ed., when you use a pawn of vis in spellcasting, you would receive a +5 to the roll. You could also use it to boost the Range or Duration of some spells.

Under 5th Ed., the bonus to rolls is now only +2 per pawn, and they got rid of boosting altogether (though it can still be done via certain Virtues). 

Both editions require 1 pawn per Magnitude of a ritual spell to cast the ritual, and both require vis to open and enchant magic items (although 5th Ed. has introduced Charged Devices which require no vis, much like 4th Ed. Potions).

You can still use vis to study from, and it is important for your Longevity Ritual. It can be used in Certamen, and I think it is needed when binding and empowering your Familiar (but I would have to confirm that).


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

*Covenant Layout*

Within the next day or two I will try to attach some illustrations for a possible layout we may consider for our covenant. This is completely OOC, as Valeria has no knowledge of architecture or such, but would provide a good starting point from which to expand later.

Anyway, it is a covenant I used in a previous game I played, and I have some good illustrations of its layout that can be used with very little editing to accomodate Teneo's location.

This does, however, assume that MummyKitty doesn't already have something in mind for Titus to propose.


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Thanks Nzld.
> now I understand, The vis enhance the bonus I get for casting the spells.
> In this case I would like Intellego and Corpus as the main source
> and the other as the secondery importent: Mentem, Vim , Perdo and Rego.
> ...



The Vis Stocks we are determining here are for the vis already on hand (i.e. what was provided by Fengheld). Techically this is communal vis, belonging to the covenant as a whole, rather than to the individual magi (though you will likely have that too, at some point).

For your OOC contribution, how about 2 Intellego, 2 Corpus, and 1 Mentem, then?

I'll update my previous post with the running tally.


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## Yair (Oct 16, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Yair - I'm not familiar with the rules that Nzld used for the Vis/Source thingy she wrought.
> So ... What Gorgamesh needs ?!



I take it Nzld cleared that up?


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## Yair (Oct 16, 2005)

[None of this is set in stone, if anyone has a better idea, go ahead and post it.]



			
				Nzld said:
			
		

> Is the cliff also covered by trees, with a clearing for the standing stones and the covenant proper, or does it rise above the forest treeline entirely?



The latter. In my mind, the clifftop is kinda like a deforested "tongue" protruding from the forest. 


> I am curious as to how extensive the view is from the site, and if there are any notable features that can be seen from it (villages in the distance, etc.).



The cliff is not high, and the forest hides everything in one direction, so the view isn't something to write home about. It is high enough that, with the lay of the land, the stone circle itself is hidden from sight from the main road that passes below it. If you build low building there and lower (towards the forest), you won't see and won't be seen from the road. 
If you go to the cliff's edge and take a peak, you'll have a good view of the road in either direction for a few miles, left and right. On a good day, you can make out some of the outlying farms of a village to the north. To your east are rolling hills and, in the distance, a river and lake.



> Also, you mention that it takes a little bit of a climb to reach the clifftop... how extensive is this climb?



Fairly extensive. Nothing insormountable, but it is somehow tall. Consider that you were able to mount it with wagons, but only barely, and one got stuck.


> Is it a gentle climb, whereby someone might happen to climb it while strolling through the forest, or is a steeper climb, where one would pretty much have to have an intentional desire to reach the clifftop before tackling it?



It is mostly gentle, with a few rough spotches, but as it is evident that you are climbing towards the cliff and getting away from the road you would have to be intentionally be going there. 
You wouldn't climb it if you are strolling along the road, unless you intentionally go into a path that you know will wind up taking you up towards the cliff, into the forest, and away from the road.
But yes, you COULD have visitors that just followed their curiosity and reached you.



> As for the stone circle itself, are these just individual monoliths arranged in a ring, or are they stacked in a henge or something similar?



Individual stones, no "doorway" or anything like that.


> How wide is the entire layout?



Wide enough for about 8 magi to stand side by side in a circle, on the inside of the stones.


> How many stones are there?



Four huge boulders, sinking deep into the earth. There is also a "crest" or "crown" of a few smaller stones and a small upsurge in the ground, completing the circle. Stones, even pebbles, tend to attract to the crest, and there are some stones there that, though not as huge as the boulders, are fairly large (about a chair's size) and seemingly well anchored to the earth.


> Is the ring complete, or are there missing/broken stones?



It is complete, but the stones are rough and worn.


> Does the Order have any knowledge on what purpose this ring served?



Not really. It is believed the old magi of Rethra has it all figured out, but they weren't sharing.


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> If you build low building there and lower (towards the forest), you won't see and won't be seen from the road.



How low is low? Could a three-story stone and wood house nearer the forest edge, with two-story smaller structures nearer the stones, remain hidden?



			
				Yair said:
			
		

> If you go to the cliff's edge and take a peak, you'll have a good view of the road in either direction for a few miles, left and right.



What direction does the cliff "tongue" stick out? Towards the north, east, west, or south? I assume the road runs perpendicular to that, correct?

How developed is the road?


Also, is there sufficient mass that the magi could conceivably build subterranean rooms and passages, up to and including beneath the ring of stones itself?


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## Yair (Oct 16, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> This does, however, assume that MummyKitty doesn't already have something in mind for Titus to propose.



I believe he had plans with a Roman bent; MummyKitty?


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## Yair (Oct 16, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> How low is low? Could a three-story stone and wood house nearer the forest edge, with two-story smaller structures nearer the stones, remain hidden?



I'd say yes, but assuming the stories are "as-is" and not tall as in modern buildings. Realistically, adding the need for a tilted roof, chimney, and some leeway, I'd cut it down to two stories at the back and one story (plus attic) near the stones.
Come to think of it, chimeny smoke would be a giveaway.



> What direction does the cliff "tongue" stick out? Towards the north, east, west, or south? I assume the road runs perpendicular to that, correct?



It sticks towards the east. And correct.



> How developed is the road?



It is a fairly wide and well-traveled road, but it isn't well maintained. The result is a good road in the right seasons, but you better be alert for potholes and problems as they are fixed rather laisurly (by local villagers, the duke, or other parties).
There is traffic for Rostock (North-West), Stettin (East), and Brandenburg (South), as well as more local traffic. 



> Also, is there sufficient mass that the magi could conceivably build subterranean rooms and passages, up to and including beneath the ring of stones itself?



Yes, the cliff is rather wide, although not extremely tall.


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## Yair (Oct 16, 2005)

*Winter and Solstice*

The winter solstice has already come. We are at the season of Winter, which begun at the winter solstice (December 14th). In fact, it is almost the middle of the season, half way to the vernal equinox (March 13th). The exact middle of the season will be in 8 days.

The winter solstice is the shortest day in the year, and marks the beginning of winter. An equinox is when the days are equal; the vernal equinox marks the first day of the season of spring.


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks for the added description. I have a much better idea of the visual layout, now. 

I have some good mapping tools. I'll work up some elementary maps over the next week or so.


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

*Scribe Specialist*

I still haven't come to terms with a scribe character.

We have the specialist Bookmaker/Scribe with a very decent Scribe skill (7). However, unless he has a score in Magic Theory, he will be unable to copy texts on Arts, Magic Theory, or Parma Magica, etc.

I had thought to create a scribe grog with Magic Theory, who could fulfill this function, but my main desire was to have someone who could translate magical texts (i.e. the magi's lab notes, or those found elsewhere) so the magi wouldn't have to do that themselves. However, the 5th Ed. rules indicate that translating requires a Lab Total and, thus, a laboratory, so it cannot really be done by a simple mundane, even if he has a score in Magic Theory.

Yair, is it feasible to allow the Specialist a Magic Theory score of 1, so he can at least fulfill the first role of copying magical texts?

Alternately, if you don't want the scribe to start with such a skill, would the magi be able to train him in it in-game?


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## Nzld (Oct 16, 2005)

*Covenant Ideas*

Perhaps we should begin discussing some OOC ideas for the covenant itself.

My main idea is to have the standing stones integrated into the layout of the covenant, such that the buildings are arranged around it, with a main house for the library and meeting hall (along with the mundane areas such as a kitchen and dorms), then allow each magus a seperate sanctum/lab building.  All the buildings would be symetrically aligned around the stones.

Another idea I had was to have the above ground buildings be mostly superficial, but the important stuff would be underground. The main council chamber/library could be positioned directly beneath the stone circle, with passageways and tunnels leading to the various sanctums and secret entrances, etc.

Do your magi prefer "simpler" construction, or something more elaborate and grandiose? Perhaps the above-ground facilities could be constructed like a temple? That could incorporate both Titus's like for all things Roman, as well as Gorgamesh's interest in things Divine (albeit, such a temple would likely be more along pagan lines than Dominion). 

I also think secret passages to and from various lookout points both on the cliff and at road level would be viable for grogs to come and go discreetly.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 16, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Within the next day or two I will try to attach some illustrations for a possible layout we may consider for our covenant. This is completely OOC, as Valeria has no knowledge of architecture or such, but would provide a good starting point from which to expand later.
> 
> Anyway, it is a covenant I used in a previous game I played, and I have some good illustrations of its layout that can be used with very little editing to accomodate Teneo's location.
> 
> This does, however, assume that MummyKitty doesn't already have something in mind for Titus to propose.




Titus definitely has some ideas, but I wouldn't expect them to be realistic at this time.    Maybe sometime down the road...  For now we just have to get the site and the basic wooden buildings laid out, so if you have a sketch for that I'd be interested in seeing it.  Thanks!


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## MummyKitty (Oct 17, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Perhaps we should begin discussing some OOC ideas for the covenant itself.
> 
> My main idea is to have the standing stones integrated into the layout of the covenant, such that the buildings are arranged around it, with a main house for the library and meeting hall (along with the mundane areas such as a kitchen and dorms), then allow each magus a seperate sanctum/lab building.  All the buildings would be symetrically aligned around the stones.
> 
> ...




Nzld, I like your ideas, especially the secret passages to the road and lookout points.

Titus is going to prefer a more elaborate building, although getting the materials needed may be problematic.  Generally, the buildings would surround the standing stone circle which would become the centerpiece of a garden with small trees and statuary.  A large reflecting pool could also be incorporated into this garden if possible.  Perhaps the buildings could form a "U" shaped villa around the stones, with the opening of the U pointed toward the cliff.  That way, the buildings would not be as visible from the road, and you'd have a nice view of the sky towards the opening. Ideally the courtyard would have collonades supporting a covered path around the garden for walking and contemplation even in inclement weather.

The buildings should be sturdy and well constructed, preferably of stone but hauling that to the top will be difficult (but then, so would wood).  The roofing could be of tile (perhaps we need to establish a kiln for our laboratory ware anyway....  We'll need some fancy materials for the flooring, mosaics and such, maybe even some nice Greek marble.   

I like the idea of having underground chambers and we'll need some plumbing for the baths.  We'll also need a cistern to collect rainwater so we don't have to cart that up the hill.

As you mentioned, for safety the magus labs should probably be in separate outbuildings from the villa.

Titus is going to be tolerant of divine-related features such as a chapel, but he'll probably avoid them. Divine imagery, epsecially statuary, tends to make him nervous...

Once we're established we could potentially magically raise some stone towers in strategic locations for increased security, unless we think the location will provide us enough privacy.

Just some thoughts.  Obviously reality will probably present challenges to Titus's ideas, as will any conflicting thoughts by the other magus.  In the end I'm guessing we'll have a bit of a hodge-podge that will never live up to Titus's gradiose expectations.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 17, 2005)

*Vis*

Based on the spells I know, I guess I would like to have some Rego and Intellego vis in the stores, though I suppose Muto and Creo would also be of use.

Thanks.


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## Nzld (Oct 17, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Based on the spells I know, I guess I would like to have some Rego and Intellego vis in the stores, though I suppose Muto and Creo would also be of use.
> 
> Thanks.



Okay... I'll add in 2 Muto, 2 Creo, and 1 more Rego for your contribution. 

I'll also go ahead and assign 2 Intellego, 2 Terram, and 1 more Mentem to flesh out the final 5 pawns.

See the updated post for the final tally.

Let me know if anyone has a problem with these as our final values.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2657685#post2657685

Optionally, we might consider dropping 2 Corpus for either Herbam or Animal, since we are in the forest and all.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 17, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> The Vis Stocks we are determining here are for the vis already on hand (i.e. what was provided by Fengheld). Techically this is communal vis, belonging to the covenant as a whole, rather than to the individual magi (though you will likely have that too, at some point).
> 
> For your OOC contribution, how about 2 Intellego, 2 Corpus, and 1 Mentem, then?
> 
> I'll update my previous post with the running tally.




SURE !!!
BTW, Nzld, I liked they way you delve into details, it's giving a nice good view of the game


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 17, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Perhaps we should begin discussing some OOC ideas for the covenant itself.
> 
> My main idea is to have the standing stones integrated into the layout of the covenant, such that the buildings are arranged around it, with a main house for the library and meeting hall (along with the mundane areas such as a kitchen and dorms), then allow each magus a seperate sanctum/lab building.  All the buildings would be symetrically aligned around the stones.
> 
> ...




An open dome like structure can be above the stones, this "Magical" like place can be a nice outdoor meeting place, as for our main library, it can be undergruond right beneath the Stone circle, as for the other building, they can be scattered around as you wish, Gorgamesh do not care for the standings of the buildings


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 17, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Okay... I'll add in 2 Muto, 2 Creo, and 1 more Rego for your contribution.
> 
> I'll also go ahead and assign 2 Intellego, 2 Terram, and 1 more Mentem to flesh out the final 5 pawns.
> 
> ...




We can drop one corpus for animal I guess, let's stay with 3 corpus.


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## Yair (Oct 17, 2005)

The holiday season is upon us at Israel, and I'm off to celebrate it in a roleplaying convention. I'll be offline for a few days, probably until thursday.
Sorry.

Roy, will I see you on tuesday or wendsday at Icon?

Yair


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## Yair (Oct 17, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> *Yair, is it feasible to allow the Specialist a Magic Theory score of 1, so he can at least fulfill the first role of copying magical texts?
> 
> Alternately, if you don't want the scribe to start with such a skill, would the magi be able to train him in it in-game?*



Having a score in Magic Theory increases the usability of his Scribe skill. The way I understand it, you pay only for the highest Ability as only one Ability can be used at a time (each season). But having a score of 1 in Magic Theory allows the scribe to "use" both it and Scribe in the season. 
So I'd say yes, I'll allow for someone to have (or learn) Magic Theory, but I'll add up his score in it to his Scribe Ability to represent him being more worthwhile in his Scribe than someone else of the same Scribe level.
A bit of a houserule, but there.

Edit: On second thought, making a houserule for such a trivial manner is nonsense. Let the character have a score of 1 in Magic Theory; you only pay for the highest Ability, as per the rules.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 17, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> The holiday season is upon us at Israel, and I'm off to celebrate it in a roleplaying convention. I'll be offline for a few days, probably until thursday.
> Sorry.
> 
> Roy, will I see you on tuesday or wendsday at Icon?
> ...




Maybe.
If I'll be there with Salvo I'll call, Shir sent me her scehduale


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## MummyKitty (Oct 17, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Optionally, we might consider dropping 2 Corpus for either Herbam or Animal, since we are in the forest and all.




If we bring down the stag I bet we can get some Animal from its horns....   

Your numbers on the vis sound good to me.  Thanks for setting this up Nzld!


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## Yair (Oct 19, 2005)

*Legalities*



			
				MummyKitty said:
			
		

> If we bring down the stag I bet we can get some Animal from its horns....



Lol, quite right.

I'll add Nzld's excellent work to the covenant's description and make another post shortly.

*Legalities and Covenant Oath and Charter*
Officially, you won't have a covenant until it is approved in Tribunal (in 7 years), but this holds surprisingly little legal weight.
The point of a covenant oath is to bind its magi to each other. Right now, if one of you magi were to seize the "covenant's" vis and books, and retire to his sanctum (or another covenant) -  he would be prefectly within his rights and there would be nothing you could do about it (except for Wizard's War). If he refuses to agree to act according to the other's council, he is likewise within his rights.
You can take an oath, strike a covenant between you, to own property jointly and obey each other's decisions in council (or the leader's decisions, or whatever), to have an obligation to aid and protect each other and your common resources, and so on. That's a covenant's oath, and the precise details of it are the covenant's Charter.
Fengheld's charter, for example, places great authority in the hands of its elected leader and sets up several levels of authority and privilege for its magi.

There is no pressing *need* to take an oath. The redcap (and some other magi) expected you to take one as soon as possible as this is seen as prudent, but no one is going to twist your arm into taking one.

Going into the details of what exactly is detailed in the Charter (i.e. the exact wording of the oath) can be tedious, perhaps more so than the calculations involved above. I personally find such decisions interesting (especically in-character, as my magus tries to impose the order he sees as most appropriate), but I can cetainly understand someone not wanting to engage in hectic debate, or wallow in minutea of an imaginary text for a covenant that, for now, doesn't really even exist. 
Feel free to gloss the whole thing. Say that you just "take AN oath", or decide to postpone taking one till later, or whatever.
Or weigh in and debate the issue to death. Your choice.

Here is an example charter and oath, from the net (just the first one I got in Google):
[sblock]*Oath*
I, [name], do humbly ask for acceptance into the Covenant of Le Blanc. I do so of my own will, under no influences other other than my own; no magicks or powers mundane force me here today. I understand that my life is forfeit should this or any other part of my oath be found false. Here I stand, with full knowledge of what I do. 

I swear by the Order, my life, and all I hold dear, that I am name, follower of house, filius of parens, fully trained solely in the ways of Hermetic Magic and none other. I here truthfully state I have never consorted with or aided demons, diabolists, or practitioners of magic other than those sanctioned by the Order, and will continue this practice as long as I live. 

I further swear the title of Magus is properly mine, being conferred upon me by magus in the year date, at the Covenant covenant, within the tribunal tribunal, I, name, do now renounce all ties, oaths, and loyalties, binding or otherwise, to my parens and the Covenant of my apprenticeship. 

Now I begin anew, and give myself wholly to Le Blanc. I understand all that this entails, and agree to all terms within the Covenant charter for now and for all time. In addition, I swear to follow both the Code of Hermes and the Peripheral Code, lest I lose my title of Magus, position within my House, and place within this Covenant. 

From this day forward, Le Blanc shall be my home. I agree to make Le Blanc's goals mine own, its allies mine own, its enemies mine own, its riches mine own, and its hardships mine own. I swear never, by action or inaction, to allow the Covenant to come to harm, in the physical, magical, spiritual, or personal sense. I agree never to represent Le Blanc to others, sign binding pacts, or make oaths regarding its members or its welfare without first being so empowered by the Covenant. In all respects I will uphold the reputation and honor of this, my new home, and consider its welfare above my own. 

This is my solemn covenant. Le Blanc's very life is now mine own. 

*Charter*
This be the charter of the covenant Le Blanc, founded the month of April, 1202, in Provence, France. The founders and charter members be the maga Lythande, of house Guernicus, the magus Grim, of house Tytalus, the maga Neanne de Sule, of house Verditius, the magus Martin Windmaster, of house Ex Miscellanea, and the magus Grantor, of house Bonisagus, presiding. 

This charter lays down the foundations of the covenant, and the rules upon which the covenant was founded, to promote the study and exchange of magical knowledge, to advance and uphold the Hermetic arts, and to foster the exchange of mutual respect among the members. It is to these ends that all of the following strictures apply, and to which this covenant is pledged. 

The charter members of Le Blanc are granted full rights and privileges while on covenant grounds, which includes the following: 

Each member has one vote in matters of covenant policy, including the application of this charter in all respects, and the modification of this charter to continue within it's intended purpose. 
Each member may have equipment and supplies of any nature, so long as the expense or use of the equipment does not injure the covenant or any of it's members. 
Each member may have private areas in the covenant as needed, so long as the covenant has the space to provide. 
Each member has free and unrestricted access to all areas of the covenant except those which are private to other covenant inhabitants, and those controlled by covenant officers (the Autocrat and the High Initiate). 
Each member has access to all covenant resources (libraries, vis stores, magic artifacts) on a temporary basis. All resources must be returned or replenished, unless lost in the process of defending the covenant or performing covenant business. 
Each member has the service of covenant inhabitants excluding other members, so long as that service does not interfere with the plans of other members or force the inhabitant to perform duties for which they are not employed. 
Each member is entitled to privileged service from one covenant inhabitant (excluding other members) of their choice. Each member has complete authority over this inhabitant in the event that the services desired conflict with that of other members. 
All members may draft wills to specify the distribution of their belongings upon death. If a member has no will on file at the covenant, all that members belongings become covenant property upon his/her death. Wills must be witnessed by the Autocrat and at least one member. 
The charter members of Le Blanc are pledged to respect the following responsibilities: 

Each member must surrender one third of all vis acquired on expeditions outside covenant grounds to the covenant. Other payment (magical artifacts, potions, service, etc.) may be surrendered instead, if approved by vote of the council. 
Each member must surrender all magical resources found while on covenant business to the covenant. 
Each member must scribe in the covenant libraries for at least one full season every 2 years. 
Each member may provide one season of service for the covenant, approved by a majority vote of the council, to replace the scribing or vis requirements. 
Each member of the covenant must provide full assistance and resources to help defend the covenant from danger, at need, with no compensation for resources used. Compensation may be appealed for to the council. 
Each member must attend all regularly scheduled meetings of the council, and must attend all unscheduled meetings of the council of which they are informed, and are able to attend. 
Each member must inform the Autocrat whenever the member leaves the covenant grounds, and provide information on their intended destination(s) and expected return. Members returning to the covenant must inform the Autocrat immediately upon their return. 
Each member who leaves the covenant must, within a week of their return, submit to an interview with the Autocrat or another scribe, so that their activities may be recorded. Expeditions which are not of importance to the covenant (discretion of the magus in question) are not subject to this requirement except by choice of the High Initiate. 
Members who have a debt to the covenant may be directed by the High Initiate or by the council to perform specific services to pay their debts, so long as the directed service is beneficial to the covenant as a whole. 
Failure of any member to perform their responsibilities will result in punishments to be determined by a vote of council. Standard punishment is a fine of 2 pawns of vis, and, if possible, fulfillment of the failed responsibility as soon as possible. 

New members may be inducted into the covenant as associate members if they fulfill the following requirements: 

Submission to questioning from a council of all covenant members, while under the influence of Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie or other magical influences. 
Demonstration of proficiency in at least two different areas of magic. 
Acceptance by a unanimous vote of all coven members. 
Swearing of the covenant oath. 
Submission of some body part (hair, nails, etc.) for storage in the covenant vault. 
Apprentices trained at the covenant need only be accepted by a majority vote of the council to become associate members. 

Privileges of an associate member are as follows: 

Each associate member may have equipment and supplies of any nature, so long as the expense or use of the equipment does not injure the covenant or any of it's members. 
Each associate member may have private areas in the covenant as needed, so long as the covenant has the space to provide. 
Each associate member has free and unrestricted access to all areas of the covenant except those which are private to other covenant inhabitants, and those controlled by covenant officers (the Autocrat and the High Initiate). 
Each associate member has access to all covenant resources (libraries, vis stores, magic artifacts) on a temporary basis. All resources must be returned or replenished, unless lost in the process of defending the covenant or performing covenant business. 
Each associate member has the service of covenant inhabitants excluding members, so long as that service does not interfere with the plans of other members or force the inhabitant to perform duties for which they are not employed. 
Associate members may attend all council meetings. 
Responsibilities of an associate member are as follows: 

Associate members must surrender all vis and magical artifacts acquired on expeditions outside covenant grounds or when on covenant business to the covenant, which will be counted towards requirements for acceptance as a full member (see below). Other payment (magical artifacts, potions, service, etc.) may be surrendered instead, if approved by vote of the council. 
Each associate member must provide full assistance and resources to help defend the covenant from danger, at need, with no compensation for resources used. Compensation may be appealed for to the council. 
Each associate member must perform services for the covenant, as required by the council, not to exceed one season of service per year. 
Each associate member must inform the Autocrat whenever the member leaves the covenant grounds, and provide information on their intended destination(s) and expected return. Members returning to the covenant must inform the Autocrat immediately upon their return. 
Each member who leaves the covenant must, within a week of their return, submit to an interview with the Autocrat or another scribe, so that their activities may be recorded. Expeditions which are not of importance to the covenant (discretion of the magus in question) are not subject to this requirement except by choice of the High Initiate. 
Members who have a debt to the covenant may be directed by any full member to perform specific services to pay their debts, so long as the directed service is beneficial to the covenant as a whole. 
To obtain the status of a full member, an associate member must fulfill the following requirements: 

The member must have no outstanding debts to the covenant as a whole. 
The member must supply the covenant with 10 pawns of vis or the equivalent in magical artifacts, potions, etc. 
The member must scribe for the covenant for 4 seasons. Appropriate duties may be substituted for scribing, but covenant service required of an associate member by the council does not count. 
The member must provide the covenant with one outstanding service, that enhances the covenant in some way, such as by inventing a strong defensive spell, enchanting an item of significant use, or making an alliance between the covenant and some powerful political or magical force. Whether any service will fulfill this requirement is subject to a vote of the council. 
The member must be accepted by a majority vote of the council. 
Full members are granted the same privileges, and have the same responsibilities as charter members. All new full members of the covenant must add their names and sigils to the covenant roster, from which they can only be removed by death or declaration of Wizard's March. 

One member of the covenant shall be chosen by vote of a full council to hold the post of High Initiate, acting as spokesperson for the covenant in internal and external matters. The High Initiate must attend all Tribunals, though other members are not excluded from Tribunals. This post may only change hands upon resignation or death of the holder or formal challenge from a full member. Formal challenge for the position, may, at the option of the challenger, be decided by a new vote of a full council, or by Certamen, witnessed by all covenant members. If the challenge takes the form of a vote, the vote must be unanimous. If the challenge takes the form of Certamen, the challenger must still be approved by a majority vote to gain the position. Resignation of the High Initiate may be given at any council meeting, but formal challenges may only be made during the first council meeting in any given year. 

Let it be recorded that the founding members of Le Blanc chose the magus Grantor, of house Bonisagus, as the first High Initiate. 

The covenant shall have an Autocrat, in charge of all mundane and day to day affairs of the covenant, including hiring of covenant personnel, upkeep of the covenant resources (supplies, treasury, libraries, vis supply, etc.), and record keeping for the covenant, including the recording of the minutes of all covenant meetings. 

The Autocrat shall have all the privileges of an associate member, and the following additional privileges: 

In cases of a tie of the council when a majority vote is required, when a unanimous vote of the council is required and at least one full member is not in attendance, or when a vote of the full council is required and one full member is missing, the Autocrat may cast one vote. 
The Autocrat is considered a full member with seniority over all but the High Initiate when the Autocrat's interests conflict with those of another member. 
The Autocrat has full control over all covenant resources, and this control may only be overridden by a majority vote of the council. 
The Autocrat is entitled to a longevity potion and a charm against magic of at least the fifth magnitude. 
The Autocrat shall have all the responsibilities of an associate member, excluding responsibilities of regular covenant service. The Autocrat shall have the following additional responsibilities: 

Upkeep of all covenant resources, including record keeping, purchasing, and selling. 
Attendance of all council meetings. 
Recording of all council meetings. 
If at any time, the covenant lacks an Autocrat, the privileges and responsibilities of the Autocrat shall fall to the High Initiate, until such time as the covenant again has an Autocrat. 

The covenant shall have a Captain of the Guard, who commands the covenants armed forces and is responsible for them in all ways except for the acquisition of weapons, which falls under the authority of the Autocrat. 

The Captain of the Guard has complete authority over covenant military personnel, and in military matters his orders may only be overridden by a majority vote of the council. 

The Captain of the Guard shall have all the privileges of an associate member, and he has seniority over all non-members. He may attend any covenant meeting unless asked to leave by a full member. 

Meetings of the covenant council shall be held the first full moon of every season. Additional meetings my be called by the Autocrat or any full member, so long as the Autocrat is notified in time to summon all members on covenant grounds, and to prepare the council chambers, if necessary. 

Matters which may be discussed at council meetings are unrestricted, with the exception that matters which have already been decided by a vote may only be re-introduced for discussion or vote with approval of the High Initiate. 

The right to speak in covenant meetings is granted without limits to all members in attendance. However, in cases where more than one person is speaking at the same time, the High Initiate may call for silence, and require each member to speak in turn. Non-members in attendance of council meetings may only speak when called upon by the High Initiate. Once the High Initiate has admitted a non-member to speak, they may speak freely for the duration of the meeting, until dismissed by the High Initiate. 

Votes may be called for on any subject, by the Autocrat or High Initiate at any time, or by any other member with the support of one other full member. Votes by the council are binding on all covenant inhabitants, including all magi and the Autocrat. Members absent for votes forfeit their votes in those issues, unless they convince the High Initiate to call for another vote when the member returns. Ties are decided by the Autocrat, as outlined above. 

Anyone carrying a magus' sigil has the authority of that magus while on covenant grounds, or when dealing with covenant personnel outside covenant grounds. The Autocrat and the Captain of the Guard will have a sigil for the purpose of transferral of authority as well. The High Initiate has an additional sigil that carries the power of the post separate from the normal sigil of a magus. A member may override the authority of one carrying his or her sigil, but unless the authority is overridden, the magus is responsible for all commitments and decisions made by the wielder of the sigil. 

No spells or other magical activity are allowed within council meetings without the consent of the High Initiate and all members who will be affected by the spell. Members may be subjected to spells which they object to if a vote of the council approves it. This ban on magical activities includes Certamen. At the consent of the High Initiate and all parties involved, however, the meeting may be suspended for Certamen, to be resumed, without the attendance of the defeated members, when the Certamen is decided. 

Certamen is not allowed anywhere in the covenant without the consent of the High Initiate or a vote of the council. Certamen within the covenant may only take place in the Duelling Circle, and must be witnessed by the autocrat and at least one other full member. Additionally, the High Initiate must be present, as a witness or participant, if the High Initiate is on covenant grounds when the Certamen is declared. Certamen on covenant grounds takes the traditional format, with the challenger choosing the technique and the challenged choosing the form of the contest. 

This ends the charter of Le Blanc, sealed with the sigils of the charter members, this fifth day of May, 1202. Provisions to this charter may only be added, removed, or changed with a unanimous vote of the council. 

        Grantor        Lythande         Grim    

      Martin Windmaster     Neanne de Sule



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addendum, on the twentyfirst day of July, 1215: A member may be cast out from the covenant by unanimous vote of all other full members, if said member has grievously broken against the charter of the covenant. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addendum, on the tenth day of August, 1218: 
The obligation to contribute a season of work to the covenant every two years is hereby removed. 

One third of the covenant's net vis income (gathered vis minus any vis spent from covenant stores) is distributed among the full members of the covenant once a year. 

The minimum length of associate membership is five years. An exception can be made by the vote of the covenant council. 

A new class of membership, Candidate Member, is taken into use. A prospective member becomes first a candidate member, then an associate member, and finally a full member. 

The right to use covenant resources, such as books, vis and covenfolk, lies primarily with the full members, secondarily with the associate members, and lastly with the candidate members. The needs of full members go thus before the needs of associate members and candidate members, and the needs of associate members go before the needs of candidate members. 

A candidate member has the same duties and priviledges as an associate member, with the following exceptions: [/sblock]


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## Nzld (Oct 20, 2005)

*Charter Discussion*

I was actually anticipating having the charter worked out in-character... but as it is something that could take awhile, I figured we could do it as a seperate thread that doesn't correlate time-wise with the main storyline... then, following the first full year of game time, we ratify it and swear a new oath.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 20, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> I was actually anticipating having the charter worked out in-character... but as it is something that could take awhile, I figured we could do it as a seperate thread that doesn't correlate time-wise with the main storyline... then, following the first full year of game time, we ratify it and swear a new oath.



 Good suggestion, Nzld. I agree that it would be fun to work out the charter in character, but don't want to slow down the adventure.

This is defintely getting into some depths of this game that I've never played before. My past games have really been almost D&D like with the Ars Magica background (though I guess we did have a lot less combat and more role playing than a typical D&D game).  Great stuff!


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## Nzld (Oct 20, 2005)

*The Expedition*

Depending on which magus (or magi) decide to embark on the expedition, either Hakon or Volkmar should attend, and then one additional militant grog (the archer, I propose). Heinrich, the remaining as-yet-unnamed militant grog, and the remaining companion (Hakon or Volkmar) should stay behind to guard the covenant proper. 

Additional grogs and covenfolk should include Mattius and perhaps one or two of the other grogs that have not yet been fully defined (but I have a couple concepts being considered). Additionally, if Strahd's companion (the troubador) is completed, he might prove valuable as well.

Ultimately, if Valeria is elected to the expedition, I will likely have Volkmar remain at camp, and vice versa. I am anticipating either Valeria or Titus being the primary magus on the expedition. I do not think Gorgamesh would personally want to leave the covenant to pursue the stag, and I think Gasparius would only go in the event two magi are sent (first, because he is NPCing at the moment, and second because of his personality and history), though his presence would likely prove important, as he is the only magus with a degree of Faerie Lore. Valeria has little personal interest in the stag, but would be interested in visiting the local villages and, perhaps, encountering other, more compatible, fey. She would have little enough interest in the covenant proper until such time as her sanctum and laboratory can be established.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 20, 2005)

I'll try to make some posts tonight, sorry, I meant to post something last night...


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## Yair (Oct 21, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Additionally, if Strahd's companion (the troubador) is completed, he might prove valuable as well.



I should finish up a rough version by tomorrow night (in 24 hours or so). He is smitten with Valeria, so would probably stay with her or do whatever she insists he does.



> I think Gasparius would only go in the event two magi are sent (first, because he is NPCing at the moment, and second because of his personality and history), though his presence would likely prove important, as he is the only magus with a degree of Faerie Lore.



Indeed. As Gasparius is NPCd, I'd like to avoid sending him off to adventure. He'll try his best to stay in the covenant, and to try to ignore his faerie lore credentials as best he can.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 21, 2005)

If we go adventuring, Gorgamesh will stay behind, he is still in pain since they climbed the cliff. so as soon as my companion will be ready I'll go adventuring with him.
just to be worthy and show his courge to Valeria  

Now... as for our oath, seperate thread sound like a good idea, but if you fellow just want 
"to take an oath" and get rid of it, it's fine by me.


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## Yair (Oct 21, 2005)

I'm not clear how the seperate thread for establishing the oath/charter works; is it OOC or IC? Is it in the future, and if so when?
The problem I have with a future IC thread is that it may be quite different if it is actually conducted in that future - with some roleplaying history, friendships and enmities, and perhaps even cast changes behind it. (Like Gasparius actually having a player.)
The problem I have with an OOC thread is that, well, I find it less interesting than an IC thread. I like arguing, or reading the arguments the player magi. It is, for me, a big and unique part of the Ars Magica game.
I just love the current dissent!    I literally grinned evilly when I read your last post, MummyKitty.

I suggest delaying figuring out the exact details of the charter/oath until such time as it makes sense IC. The PCs can settle on a temporary oath, then come back to the subject once things are settled down and they can work things out in peace. 

Unless someone doesn't want to play out the politics and just wants to go straight away for adventure, I don't see why the IC politics shouldn't be handled in the IC thread, and the OOC politics in the OOC thread. I just don't see a need for a seperate thread.
Then again, I'm the DM, things may look differently from the player's seat.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 21, 2005)

*updating first posts*

Yair - if you can add the grogs (like rodolf the cook) and Malloc the comapnion
in the first relevant posts so that we may not forget the names and NPCs around there.


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## Yair (Oct 21, 2005)

In updating the covenant's post (at the head of this thread) I noticed that we haven't set the Ability summa's topic (unless I missed it?). I've temporarily set it to Pomerania Lore.
Edit: Nevermind, I see we settled on Parma Magica.

I'll be making some more logistical updates today - including going over your characters, Nzld.

Yair


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## Yair (Oct 21, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Yair - if you can add the grogs (like rodolf the cook) and Malloc the comapnion
> in the first relevant posts so that we may not forget the names and NPCs around there.



I've added them to the covenant's description; I'll add them to the On-Scene post as well.


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## Nzld (Oct 21, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> I'm not clear how the seperate thread for establishing the oath/charter works; is it OOC or IC? Is it in the future, and if so when?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



My concern is with bogging down the IC thread and delaying adventures. To forge a charter IC will take weeks, if not months, of real-time. Though we may all have an interest in playing this out IC, I do not think any of us want to do so at the expense of the main story lines and adventures.

My thinking is that the Charter thread would represent the individual council meetings were we all get together to discuss and draft the charter. It isn't taking place in the future, per se, but more accurately, the past. So, if we assumed we started today, then regardless of how long the thread drags on, it would be assumed that it all takes place over a single day or two of game time. Meanwhile, the main IC thread could continue with the main stories.. all of which are happening after the council meeting actually takes place.

Then, later down the road in game-time, if additional articles, ammendments, or addendums need to be made, we would do that at our normal council meetings (or emergency ones, if the need is dire).


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## Nzld (Oct 21, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> In updating the covenant's post (at the head of this thread) I noticed that we haven't set the Ability summa's topic (unless I missed it?). I've temporarily set it to Pomerania Lore.
> Edit: Nevermind, I see we settled on Parma Magica.
> 
> I'll be making some more logistical updates today - including going over your characters, Nzld.
> ...



The Vis Sources and Vis Stocks in the .PDF aren't correct... there should be 2 pawns of Vim per year (not just 1).... and there should be 2 pawns of Mentem in stock.


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## Yair (Oct 21, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> The Vis Sources and Vis Stocks in the .PDF aren't correct... there should be 2 pawns of Vim per year (not just 1).... and there should be 2 pawns of Mentem in stock.



Hmm.
There ARE 2 pawns of Vim per year, you can see it in the Seasons that the 1 pawn is available and in the Build Points total... but not in the individual listing. Strange.
I'll change all the vis sources to be on Spring, that should make things clearer.
And I'll add the Mentem vis stocks.

Edit: file updated.


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## Yair (Oct 21, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> My concern is with bogging down the IC thread and delaying adventures....



I see. Alright then, sounds like a good plan. As soon as you get that expedition organized (who IS going?), we'll have the IC thread cover it and move the charter & oath's discussion to a new thread.


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## Nzld (Oct 21, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> I see. Alright then, sounds like a good plan. As soon as you get that expedition organized (who IS going?), we'll have the IC thread cover it and move the charter & oath's discussion to a new thread.



I was waiting to see if we would get around to discussing it IC, but that could still be a ways down the line. Ultimately, the selection of grogs is pretty much inconsequential, but unless anyone has a different idea in mind, will include Mattius, the archer, the shifter, and likely one other non-combatant.

The main concern is which magus will be sent. It seems that Titus would have the greatest motivation. I haven't tried to volunteer him for it because I didn't know if MummyKitten was intending for him to specifically stay behind to oversee the initial construction of the covenant. 

We just need to decide if it will be 1) Titus, Volkmar, and Malloc, or 2) Valeria, Hakon, and Malloc as the primary characters on scene.

As the current thread is going, it seems undoubtedly we will come to terms as to some kind of leadership position for Titus... we are just debating the extent and implications of that leadership at the moment. As such, he can either decide to send Valeria or choose to go himself.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 23, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> I just love the current dissent!    I literally grinned evilly when I read your last post, MummyKitty.




Heh, I'm not trying to be evil, just role playing Titus's "arrogant" personality trait and "driven" flaw a little.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 23, 2005)

Does Volkmar speak German?  Will you be posting a character sheet for him and the thief at some point?  I wanted to post something with Mattihus introducing himself, but he only speaks German and Slavic.

Thanks!


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## Nzld (Oct 23, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Does Volkmar speak German?  Will you be posting a character sheet for him and the thief at some point?  I wanted to post something with Mattihus introducing himself, but he only speaks German and Slavic.



Yes, Volkmar speaks German. Yair has all the character sheets, so hopefully he will be able to get them posted shortly.


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## Yair (Oct 23, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Yes, Volkmar speaks German. Yair has all the character sheets, so hopefully he will be able to get them posted shortly.



I didn't update them as I figured they weren't final yet... if you send me the final-final versions, I'll post them.

As for grogs... which grogs would anyone like to preserve to his own play? I think I'll change the posts to have the common grogs along with the covenant's description or something.

I'm off to work now, but I'll make a post this evening; in it I'll move the discussion to the topic of establishing the adventuring party, open a new thread for the oath/charter discussion, and even hand out some rewards.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 23, 2005)

I'm playing Hans the carpenter and Rodolf the shef .... for now.


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## Yair (Oct 23, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> I'm playing Hans the carpenter and Rodolf the shef .... for now.



Yes, but - do you EXCLUSIVELY play them? That is to say, would you mind if someone was to play out Rodolf calling for breakfast? Or Hans drafting some men to aid in moving a log? 
There are two types of grogs, really: shared, common, folks that anyone can play when it strikes his whim, and on the other hand grogs allotted to one player. Are you saying that you want you, and you alone, to play Hans or Rodolf?
Most often the alotted grogs are shield-grogs (militant grogs that stick by the players' mages' side) or grogs the player has grown attached to.

You can also claim exclusive control over a grog for the scene of for the adventure; is that what you're saying?

Again, and more clearly: the default assumption is that grogs are open to be played by anyone, even if they were just played by another. I'm asking who wants to claim a grog as exclusively his for all time, and who wants to make such a claim temporarily (and to what term - the expedition? the current scene? the next Season?).

Well, back to work.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 23, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> You can also claim exclusive control over a grog for the scene of for the adventure; is that what you're saying?




As for Rodolf and Hans, they are temporary mine, anyone can use them.
As for Permanent Grog ... I'll pick a militent one ... Let's say an archer one- hunter, I'll call him Lother Humbelhuff. He will stay to guard the Covenant during the expedition.

Anyone rejects ???


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## Nzld (Oct 23, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> I didn't update them as I figured they weren't final yet... if you send me the final-final versions, I'll post them.
> 
> As for grogs... which grogs would anyone like to preserve to his own play? I think I'll change the posts to have the common grogs along with the covenant's description or something.
> 
> I'm off to work now, but I'll make a post this evening; in it I'll move the discussion to the topic of establishing the adventuring party, open a new thread for the oath/charter discussion, and even hand out some rewards.



I sent the final sheets for Volkmar, Valeria, and Baldermar. You can also assume the grogs I sent yesterday are final unless you find any problems with them.

If Strahd wants an archer for his personal use, then you can drop the one I created for the turb and let him create a replacement one. I'm not trying to dictate all of the grogs... just trying to get the starting assets finalized.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 23, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> As for grogs... which grogs would anyone like to preserve to his own play? I think I'll change the posts to have the common grogs along with the covenant's description or something.




I'd like to have Mattihus as mine for a while.... maybe the season.  I think it's great to share the majority of the grogs but I guess the way I've played ArM in the past (granted, primarily as single session games and not campaigns) each player had a magus, companion and grog, and the player played one of them depending on the "level" of involvement in the storyline.  There were also "NPC" grogs that were part of the covenant controlled by the game master.  

However, since I believe it's our intention to do a longer adventure, it makes sense to have the grogs in a pool that anyone can use, although I think it's also OK for each of us to have "favored" grogs that we are the default player for...

Just my thoughts.


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## Yair (Oct 23, 2005)

I believe we have by now run roughly a session’s worth of play. This gives me the excuse to start handing out rewards.
All magi gain 1 Confidence Point, with the exception of Titus that gets an extra one for driving off the Stag. The Companions haven’t participated enough in the proceedings to warrant one, I’m afraid. 
Confidence in ArM5, BTW, can be spent for a +3 bonus on a roll (even after the roll is made and the result determined), up to one point per roll (actually, up to your Confidence score, but you start at 1). They are typically gained at a rate of 2-3 per session (this one didn’t have much action in it, so I gave less), so feel free to spend them at the same rate.
XP are gained per adventure, not per session; not yet.

I have established a new IC-thread for the discussion of the oath and charter, here. Please keep discussion in the main IC thread focused on the expedition.

Regarding your grogs - I'll work on it tomorrow.


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## Yair (Oct 23, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> I'd like to have Mattihus as mine for a while.... I think it's also OK for each of us to have "favored" grogs that we are the default player for...



Alright, and of course it's OK, I just want to know.


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## Nzld (Oct 23, 2005)

*Spoilers*

Yair, how do you do that Spoiler thing?


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 24, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Yair, how do you do that Spoiler thing?



(sblock) write your text (/sblock) - Just use [ instead of ( , and ] instead of )



			
				Yair said:
			
		

> Add 1 confidence point



Are you going to update our PDF sheets ? PLZ


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## Yair (Oct 25, 2005)

I'll update Titus's and Gorgamesh's character sheets (I suspect Nzld would like to make his own updating/character advancement, as he has the program). I'll also be rearranging the grog's character sheets... I'm working on it...


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## Yair (Oct 25, 2005)

Characters/covenant updated. Please check to see everything is in order; especially the Personality Traits, as I've changed them to the "proper" format and I'm not sure all of them are what you meant.

Strahd, if one of the militant grogs is to your liking, simply pick him as your personal grog character. If no one fits you, we'll work out a new one and throw out one of the militant grogs.

Edit: 
P.S, the redcap did come to eat.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 26, 2005)

Lukas the hunter - I'll take him under my roof
Roy.


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## Yair (Oct 26, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Lukas the hunter - I'll take him under my roof
> Roy.



Right.


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## Nzld (Oct 26, 2005)

*Covenant Concept*

I have taken some of the ideas we threw around regarding the covenant proper and drafted up a couple concept illustrations. Let me know what you think, or if there are any particular features that you would like to see added.

I figure initially our sanctums and labs will be house in the main buildings above ground, but would eventually be moved underground with, perhaps, only secret entrances to access that area. I am working on the underground concept at the moment, but will likely have something to show for it in a few days.

Anyway, I figure after we move underground, then we could establish Roman-style baths in one wing of the main building. There would likely be additional buildings for mundane purposes (sheds, stables, barns, etc.) elsewhere on the cliff plateau.

Yair, can you give me some dimensions for the overall cliff?


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## Nzld (Oct 26, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Lukas the hunter - I'll take him under my roof
> Roy.



Have fun with him.

Lukas has, however, been assigned to the expedition (see Volkmar's previous postings on the arrangements). His tracking and wilderness skills are too valuable to leave him sitting in the covenant.

Since you have chosen to play Lukas exclusively, please review his character sheet and background so you have an understanding of his strengths and weaknesses.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 26, 2005)

Wow ...It's awesome


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 26, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Have fun with him.
> 
> Lukas has, however, been assigned to the expedition (see Volkmar's previous postings on the arrangements). His tracking and wilderness skills are too valuable to leave him sitting in the covenant.
> 
> Since you have chosen to play Lukas exclusively, please review his character sheet and background so you have an understanding of his strengths and weaknesses.




Sure thing .. My Malloc is assigned either.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 26, 2005)

Nzld, brilliant design on the covenant!!  This brings a tear to Titus's eyes.   

I'll try to post something tonight on the IC thread.  Also have been working on ideas for the charter.

Thanks!!


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## Yair (Oct 26, 2005)

That's amazing, Nzld. Can't make a lengthy post as I'm at work, I'll post more later today.


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## Nzld (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks guys.

Right now, the central "tower" is the primary area for the magi (library, council room, etc.), though lab and sanctums will have to be in one of the large wings just for the amount of space required.

As for the "tower", there is a lot of room for play in its design. With little to no modification to the drawing, it can either be considered a large, single-story domed chamber, or it can be considered two-story. If two-story, we could add a balcony over the external columns, as well.

In my early design, I was actually elevating the windowed-level of the tower so it rose above the roofs of the other wings, providing the wizards a 360-degree view of their surroundings, but to do that would require a 40-50 foot structure (taking roof and foundation into account), and that would be difficult to conceal.

However, there is one caveat there... although the covenant may remain "secret" early on, I firmly doubt that, without magical concealment, we can stay on that cliff, right next to a relatively well-travelled road, and remain unknown for the long term. If we, instead, aren't concerned specifically with remaining hidden, then height constraints need not be too grave a concern. As this is definitely not a fortified structure, we shouldn't need fear a military reprisal. And once the labs and sanctum are secured underground, we may very well be able to pull off the surface structure as simply a fancy villa for affluent scholars with a love of all things Roman.

FYI: For magical enhancements for defense, I was considering having an underground room that brushes close along the bottom edge of the cliff, where the road passes, and have a magical Muto of the earth to allow anyone in the room to "see through" the earth, thus being able to watch the road without being visible themselves. Comments?


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## Yair (Oct 26, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Yair, can you give me some dimensions for the overall cliff?



Good question. I'm not very good with such numbers, I'm afraid.
Taking a wild estimate from your diagram, we need a clifftop plateau about 180x120 meters to contain it with some breathing space, and I just don't see that without a cliff at least, say, 40 meters tall. That's actually larger than what I had in mind, but I think it's still workable and as it let us keep your excellent covenant diagram, I'm happy with it.

Edit: the above numbers are based on an estimate of ~33x62 meters of the covenant, based in turn on an esitamte of ~4 meters for the diameter of the inner-circle defined by the stones. If I'm off, fit to scale...

I attach a picture of the cliff-area. I think it shows well the difference in our graphic skills


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 26, 2005)

Yair - you must take lessons from Nzld, your drawing S**ks


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## Nzld (Oct 26, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Edit: the above numbers are based on an estimate of ~33x62 meters of the covenant, based in turn on an esitamte of ~4 meters for the diameter of the inner-circle defined by the stones. If I'm off, fit to scale...




I did some conversions based on the existing illustration, and the inner circle is currently about 6m, which puts the covenant at approximately 60m × 90m.

If that is two spacious, it can be altered a bit. The immediate effect of any reduction in dimension would be that the walls might have to be raised higher... they are currently established at roughly 3 m (i.e. 10 feet). I'm not sure if that is high or low for Roman architecture.

Then again, the roofs themselves are adding about 3.5 m to the overall height, so some of that could still be considered head room and part of the actual wall. SO, ultimately, scaling it down to a smaller overall size wouldn't be too difficult.


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## Yair (Oct 26, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Yair - you must take lessons from Nzld, your drawing S**ks





Guys, you might be interested in this villa, not quite like ours but close (even in Germany) and actually authentic. Some cool video clips and stuff there.

Nzld, at those dimensions it fills up the space I gave for the clifftop almost completely. I'm not sure if that's good, bad, or ugly


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## Nzld (Oct 27, 2005)

*Sanctum*

Here is my concept for the subterranean sanctums.


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## Yair (Oct 27, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Here is my concept for the subterranean sanctums.



Your design is truly beautiful, but I must confess I don't understand it.
As near as I can tell, you have three storage rooms linking to the lab on one side. The other side opens directly to the stairways, with a hallway connecting to four living quarters.

I am thinking in terms of access. I don't want servants hauling things to the storage rooms to wade all across my lab, for example. I think as a magus I would indeed want two or three storage rooms readily accessible from the lab, but they should be very close to the entrance so that servants carrying supplies would not pass through my lab equipment and experiments.
I fail to see why I need so many living quarters too. Three are more than enough, and they would not be equal. I'll have one spacious one for me, adjoint to the lab. A smaller one for my shield grog, and another for a personal servant.
A toilet might be desirable, though. Perhaps a place to eat; I suppose the master's quarters?
Putting the entrance to the lab straight away down the hallway from the stairs makes sense, I don't want to prolong the already long way. But if possible, I'll have the grog's quarters somehow overlook the entrance and the hallway leading to it, so that they would sound the alarm (or something) should an intruder attempt to break in.

BTW, the underground complex will require an enchantment of Chamber of Spring Breezes, or perhaps our Verditius can arrange one for the entire covenant. A magical lock/ward on the lab's door is also a good idea. And then there are magical traps for intruders... a proper lab is expensive  
Constructing the covenant to the specifications of your magnificent design will surely take a lot of time. I'm afraid the next few seasons will be a bit hectic with adventure, so it will take a lot of RL time before we can look at your amazing pictures and think of it as our active covenant.


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## Nzld (Oct 27, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Your design is truly beautiful, but I must confess I don't understand it.
> As near as I can tell, you have three storage rooms linking to the lab on one side. The other side opens directly to the stairways, with a hallway connecting to four living quarters.
> 
> I am thinking in terms of access. I don't want servants hauling things to the storage rooms to wade all across my lab, for example. I think as a magus I would indeed want two or three storage rooms readily accessible from the lab, but they should be very close to the entrance so that servants carrying supplies would not pass through my lab equipment and experiments.
> I fail to see why I need so many living quarters too. Three are more than enough, and they would not be equal. I'll have one spacious one for me, adjoint to the lab. A smaller one for my shield grog, and another for a personal servant.



Actually, my titles for the attachment may be leading to the confusion... the images are for the entire underground portion of the covenant, not an individual magu's sanctum. The four "living quarters" are the individual sanctums of the magi, which I have designed in a three-room manner, so that they have a lab area, a personal living area/bedroom, and an antechamber which can either be used to receive guests (and, thus, not part of the sanctum), or as a third chamber for personal use (and, thus, part of the sanctum).

The "laboratory" is the council chamber and the three "storage rooms" are the vaults of the covenant. These, I envision, would hold mundane wealth, vis, magical devices, and perhaps other items of an arcane nature such as extra lab equipment, writing supplies, etc. for the immediate use of the magi. These are not storage rooms for the covenant proper into which servants would be allowed to come and go. In fact, I envision that the council chamber would be completely off-limits to any non-magus, unless specifically escorted by a magus, or attending an actual council meeting. 

I have not built living quarters for grogs or companions below, as they will live above ground in the main house. At best, a guard room could be built at the top of the stairs to thwart uninvited intruders, and, as you say, magical traps would be nice.

However, depending on how the charter is made, and whether we have mundane officials, there could be an additional room or two added along the main hallway for them. And I haven't fully worked ouot any ideas for secret passages to and from the external cliffside, or the "magical guard room" I mentioned in a previous post.  Those would all exist further below the sanctum level, with stairwells leading down to them.

Just FYI: With the current design, the main floor of the sanctum rests approximately 9m below ground level, with the initial stairwell foyer at about 4.5m below. The spiral staircase is centered on the tower of the main house and, I envision, would have a secret and/or magical entrance to thwart unwanted attention.

P.S. I chanegd the names of the attachments so they are clearer.


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## Nzld (Oct 27, 2005)

*Charter Ideas*

I am including a writeup for a potential charter which covers most areas of contention that I can think of - but I am sure there are others I haven't thought of - and should make a good starting point - or sounding board, in the least - for our IC discussions.

Though I may continue to edit it in the meantime, once the forest adventure is over and the magi are all back at covenant, I may declare that Valeria had this pseudo charter actually drawn up to present before the magi for criticism and discussion.

[SBLOCK]

*A PROPOSAL for the CHARTER of the COVENANT of TENEO

ARTICLES*​
*Article I – Oath*

*Article II – Dedication & Disclaimer*

This Charter for the Covenant of Teneo is hereby established as the legal and binding document to which all Members shall take oath, in which all rights, privileges, duties, and responsibilities shall be outlined. No other benefits, inferred or implied, shall be guaranteed by the Covenant or its Senate.

This Charter does not supersede the Code of Hermes or the Peripheral Code. Where any condition, stipulated or implied, is found to contest the Code of Hermes or the Peripheral Code, the stipulated or implied condition shall be disregarded.​
*Article III – Membership*

Section I – Good Standing

All Members of the Covenant must be in good standing with the Order of Hermes and the Rhine Tribunal. Any Member no longer in good standing with the Order of Hermes or the Rhine Tribunal shall automatically and immediately be expelled from the Covenant. Should Wizard’s March be justly declared upon a Member by a legally convened Tribunal, all Members of the Covenant shall vigilantly march against the expelled member.

A Member is in good standing with the Covenant and entitled to all rights, permissions, and benefits unless explicitly declared not in good standing by the unanimous consent of the Senate, exclusive to the Member. No Member may be declared not in good standing without the Senate acknowledging the Member’s transgression, punishment, and actions necessary to redeem the Member’s standing.

A Member not in good standing with the Covenant is still subject to all duties, responsibilities, and obligations.

Section II - Applicants

Membership shall not be restricted by House affiliation, Hermetic lineage, or Gild allegiance.

Membership shall not be granted without the unanimous consent of the Senate. 

The Senate may enact requisites for membership for each applicant on an individual basis. Each Member of the Senate may establish one or more requisites. Successful fulfillment of a Member’s requisites shall constitute consent on the part of that Member. All requisites for membership must be established and consented to by the applicant before the applicant is expected to fulfill any requisite. 

Section III - Expulsion

No Member in good standing with the Covenant shall be expelled from the Covenant.

Any Member declared not in good standing with the Covenant shall not be expelled from the Covenant before a full lunar cycle has passed. During this period, the Member may petition the Senate and may procure – at the Member’s expense - the counsel of a recognized Quaesitor of the Rhine Tribunal to advocate on his behalf. 

No Member may be expelled from the Covenant without the unanimous consent of the Senate, exclusive to the Member.​
*Article IV – Covenant Structure*

Section I – The Senate

The Senate shall be the supreme ruling body of the Covenant. 

The Senate shall consist of all Members in good standing with the Covenant.

Section II – The Office of the Consul

The Office of the Consul shall be appointed to a Member in good standing by the Senate on an annual basis, to serve for the duration of one year. The Consul shall be held responsible for overseeing the day-to-day affairs of the Covenant, both mundane and magical, and for reporting on the state of the Covenant to the Senate. The appointment of the Consul shall be held during the meeting of the Winter Solstice.

The Consul shall have the authority to make any and all decisions necessary for the continued and normal functioning and well-being of the Covenant and its Members, but shall be held accountable for his decisions by the Senate, to whom the Consul must report.

The Consul shall hold the keys to the Vaults and shall bear responsibility for allocating all stores, both magical and mundane, to Members, pursuant to the rights and entitlements of the Members and the needs of the covenant. The Consul shall also bear responsibility for the harvesting of vis from all Covenant sources.

The Consul has the right to call an emergency meeting of the Senate to discuss imperative issues of concern to the Covenant or the Office of the Consul.

Should the Consul no longer be in good standing with the Covenant, the Consul shall immediately be stripped of the Office of the Consul. The Senate shall then appoint a new Consul in an emergency meeting.

Section III – The Proconsul

Should the Consul require an absence from the Covenant that will impede his ability to carry out the duties of his office, a Proconsul shall be appointed in the interim, with full authority and responsibility, until the return of the Consul. The Consul shall call for an emergency meeting of the Senate and the Proconsul shall be elected by the Senate.

Should the Consul suffer calamity or misfortune of a physical, mental, or spiritual nature - magical or mundane - that impedes his ability to carry out the duties of his office, an emergency meeting of the Senate shall be called on behalf of the Consul, and the Senate shall elect a Proconsul, with full authority and responsibility, to serve in the interim, but for no longer than the remainder of the Consul’s term. 

The Proconsul shall be treated as the Consul in all respects while the office is held.

Section IV – Mundane Offices of the Covenant

The mundane Offices of the Covenant shall consist of:

•	A Regent, whose responsibilities and duties shall include the necessary and luxurious provisioning of the Covenant Proper, as well as the Sanctums, Laboratories, and Persons of the Members. Secondary responsibilities of the Regent shall include overseeing the provisions and stores of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk. 

•	A Captain, whose responsibilities and duties shall include the defense of the Covenant Proper and its Members and the training of the Custos and Grogs on whose lives the Magi shall depend. Secondary responsibilities of the Captain shall include overseeing the maintenance and repair of the Covenant’s physical walls and structures and maintaining the Written Law of the Covenant.

The Offices of the Covenant shall answer directly to the Consul on all matters, both magical and mundane, and indirectly to the Senate.

The Offices of the Covenant shall be acceptably literate in Latin, as well as the local vulgar language, hereby specified as German.​
*Article V – Senate Meetings*

Section I – Quorum

A Senate quorum shall consist of all Members in good standing, or their chosen proxy. Any Senate meeting, with the exception of emergency meetings called by the Consul, shall not be considered valid or binding unless a quorum is present.

Section II – Annual & Seasonal Meetings

The Senate shall convene annually on the day of the Winter Solstice. The Meeting of the Winter Solstice shall see to the annual casting of the Aegis of the Hearth and the appointment of the Office of the Consul.

The Senate shall convene seasonally, on the Summer Solstice and on the Spring and Vernal Equinoxes, to discuss Covenant business. 

Attendance at the annual and seasonal meetings is mandatory for all Members of the Covenant unless the Member is away on Covenant duty or his absence is excused by the Senate. 

Section III – Emergency & Impromptu Meetings

The Consul may call an emergency meeting of the Senate to discuss imperative issues of concern to the Covenant. Attendance at emergency meetings is mandatory, unless circumstances prevent a Member’s attendance. The Consul shall be held accountable for wanton misuse of this power. Emergency meetings do not require a Senate quorum if necessity dictates decisive and immediate action, but any decisions made without a quorum may be revoked or rebuked by the Senate when it next convenes.

Any Member of the Covenant may call an impromptu meeting of the Senate to discuss urgent or important business that cannot await the next seasonal or annual meeting. Such impromptu meetings are not mandatory, but do require a Senate quorum for validation.

Section IV – Admittance

No Member in good standing with the Covenant shall be denied admittance to a Senate meeting, nor shall his vote be disregarded, nor shall his voice be silenced.

The Officers of the Covenant are entitled to sit at Senate meetings, should their expertise or opinions be desired by any Member, unless such attendance is opposed by the Senate.

Visiting Redcaps, Quaesitor, and Magi may sit at Senate meetings with the consent of the Senate, though such consent shall not infer any right to speak or vote upon matters presented before the Senate.

Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk who do not bear Officer status shall not sit at Senate meetings unless called before the Senate to give testimony or advice on specific issues, and then only for so long as necessary to give that testimony or advice and satisfactorily answer any and all inquiries posed by the Senate.

Section V – Procedures & Protocol

Senate meetings shall be held in Latin, exclusive of the specific need to accommodate the testimony or counsel of Custos, Grogs, Covenfolk, or outsiders to the Covenant in their own vulgar language. Translation of vulgar languages, whether through mundane or magical means, shall only be accepted with the consent of the Senate.

Section VI – Voting

Each Member of the Senate shall have one - and only one - vote on all covenant matters, to use as he sees fit.

No Member’s vote shall be coerced by any means, magical or mundane, including Certamen.

A Member may call for a vote on an issue at any time, but no vote may be taken until all Members wishing to speak on the issue have had the opportunity to do so, nor until all inquiries posed by the Senate have been satisfactorily addressed, to the best possible degree.

Voting shall be of simple verbal means.

Lawfully absent Members may vote by proxy, entrusting their sigil to a fellow Member of the Senate. 

Section VII – Consent & Unanimous Consent

Consent of the Senate shall require a simple majority vote of all Members present and forming a quorum.

Unanimous Consent of the Senate shall require the vote of all Members present and forming a quorum.​
*Article VI – Rights & Permissions of Members*

Section I – Respect & Well-Being

All Members are entitled to due respect from all other Members and Covenfolk and shall not suffer indignity, ridicule, or insult; nor shall their rights as a magus be infringed; nor shall their lives or the lives of their apprentice or familiar be maliciously imperiled.

All Members are entitled to receive those sundries, stores, and equipment necessary to maintain them in comfortable means, equal to that of other Members, and befitting their status as Magi.

Section II – The Pursuit of Magic

All Members have the right to pursue magical study, research, and invention, according to their own nature, without interference from other Members, in so long as such study, research, or invention does not threaten to bring ruin upon the Covenant or its Members.

Section III – Sanctum

All Members are entitled to a personal Sanctum, to consist of a single structure or portion therein.

Section IV – Laboratory

All Members are entitled to a personal laboratory, provisioned to acceptable standards at the expense of the Covenant, if within the means of the Covenant. Laboratories of exceptional quality shall be maintained at the expense of the Member, subsidized by the generosity of the Senate.​
*Article VII – Duties & Responsibilities of Members*

Section I – Covenant  Duty

Members shall serve one season per year in service to the Covenant. Service shall be defined by the Senate or by the Member, with Senate consent.

With Senate consent, Members may perform multiple seasons of service in a given year in lieu of service in subsequent years, or for additional recompense as agreed upon by the Member and the Senate.

The Covenant shall, from Covenant coffers, reimburse Members for all vis or silver expended in the performance of Covenant duty, if such expenses are required for successful and effective completion.

Section II – Defense of the Covenant

Members shall defend the Covenant from all harm, both internal and external, and shall take no action to bring ruin or discredit upon the Covenant or its Members.

Section III – Dispute Resolution & Wizard’s War

Members shall seek to peacefully resolve disputes with other Members through negotiation, arbitration, Senate adjuration, or Certamen. Should peaceful resolution not be attainable, Members shall seek Wizard’s War only as a last recourse. Both parties shall dutifully notify the Senate and comply fully with the dictates of the Code of Hermes in regards to Wizard’s War.

Members engaged in Wizard’s War shall be held accountable for collateral damage suffered by the Covenant.

Section IV – The Aegis of the Hearth Ritual

All Members of the Covenant shall attend the annual casting of the Aegis of the Hearth, to be held on the day of the Winter Solstice. The absence of any Member shall not delay the performance of the ritual and subsequent raising of the Aegis.

Should an absentee Member desire a recasting of the Aegis of the Hearth, the Member shall provide all necessary vis and material expenses, as well as acceptable recompense for the valuable time of his fellow Members.​
*Article VIII – Library*

Section I – Access

No Member in good standing with the Covenant shall be denied access to the Library.

Any Guest meeting and accepting the Conditions of Hospitality shall have access to the Library as though he were a Member of the Covenant.

Section II – Removal of Volumes or Works from the Library

Removal of volumes or works from the Library shall be overseen by the Office of the Consul, pursuant to the rights and entitlements of the Members, and beholden to the Senate.

Any Member may remove and retain, for personal research or study, any volume or work for the duration of one season. 

Any Member wishing to retain a volume or work for a duration in excess of one season must obtain Senate permission.

If two or more Members desire access to the same volume or work in a given season, the Members shall seek to peacefully decide the issue through mediation, arbitration, or Certamen, else the matter shall be decided by the Senate.

Covenant duty shall take precedence over personal research or study in any dispute for access to a given volume or work.

Section III – Acquired Volumes or Works

Members shall surrender all non-personal volumes or works, both arcane and mundane, to the Covenant for inclusion in the Library.

If the volume or work was not acquired while in duty to the Covenant, or at covenant expense, the acquiring magus shall have preferential access to the volume or work for a period of five years, at the expense of other Members.

Section IV – Personal Volumes or Works

No Member shall be required to surrender any personal volume or work written, copied, or obtained by his own means, unless said volume or work is written, copied, or obtained in duty to the Covenant.

No Member shall be required to surrender any volume or work received in payment of services rendered, unless such services are rendered in duty to the Covenant.

Section V – Devaluation of the Library

No Member may sell, loan, or copy any volume or work from the Library, or through any means devalue the Library, without the consent of the Senate. 

No Member may grant access to the Library to any non-member magus without the consent of the Senate.​
*Article IX – Vis Stores*

Section I – Access

Access to the vis stores of the Covenant shall be regulated by the Office of the Consul, pursuant to the rights and entitlements of the Members, and beholden to the Senate.

No Member shall place at his disposal the vis stores belonging to the Covenant without the consent of the Senate.

Section II – Allotment

Members in good standing with the Covenant are entitled to an annual allotment of vis, in equal share, the quantity and Art of which to be determined by the Senate at the annual meeting.

Members may petition the Consul for an advance allotment of vis, should such a need arise prior to the annual meeting, with the Consul bearing sole discretion as to whether to grant the requested advance.

Members may petition the Consul for a vis exchange, should such a need arise prior to the annual meeting, with the Consul bearing sole discretion as to whether to grant the requested exchange.

Section III – Acquired Vis

Members shall surrender to the Covenant three out of every four pawns of vis harvested from previously unknown vis sources or stocks, retaining one pawn in four for the Member’s personal stock. 

Members discovering a new vis source shall be entitled to receive one pawn in four from the source’s productivity for a period of five years, or until the vis source is exhausted, whichever comes first. This entitlement is in addition to the Member’s normal allotment of vis.

Section IV – Covenant Vis Sources

All vis harvested from existing vis sources shall belong to the Covenant, with the exception of that amount of vis entitled to the discoverer of a source, as stipulated above.

Section V – Procured Vis for Missions & Endeavors

A Member undertaking a mission or endeavor of concern to the Covenant may, with the consent of the Consul, procure from the Vaults one pawn in ten, or ten pawns, whichever is less, from available vis stores for disposal during the course of the mission or endeavor. Unused vis shall be returned to the Vaults upon completion. The disposal of procured vis by the Member is subject to the scrutiny of the Senate.

A greater amount of vis may be procured from the Covenant vaults with the consent of the Senate.

Exception I – The Aegis of the Hearth Ritual

All vis allotments and entitlements are suspended should such allotment or entitlement reduce the vis stores to below that amount necessary for the annual casting of the Aegis of the Hearth.​
*Article X – Magical Devices & Consumables*

Section I – Access

Access to the magical devices and consumables of the Covenant shall be regulated by the Office of the Consul, pursuant to the rights and entitlements of the Members, and beholden to the Senate.

No Member shall place at his disposal the magical devices or consumables belonging to the Covenant without the consent of the Senate.

Section II – Acquired Magical Devices & Consumables

Members shall surrender all non-peronsal magical devices and consumables to the Covenant for placement in the Vaults.

If the magical device or consumable was not acquired in duty to the Covenant, or at covenant expense, the acquiring magus shall have preferential access to the magical device or consumable for a period of five years, at the expense of other Members.

Section III – Personal Magical Devices & Consumables

No Member shall be required to surrender any personal magical device or consumable crafted by his own means, unless said magical device or consumable is crafted in duty to the Covenant.

No Member shall be required to surrender any magical device or consumable received in payment of services rendered, unless such services are rendered in duty to the Covenant.

Section IV – Procured Magical Devices & Consumables for Missions & Endeavors

A Member undertaking a mission or endeavor of concern to the Covenant may, with the consent of the Consul, procure from the Vaults those magical devices and consumables deemed necessary to the successful completion of the mission or endeavor, to be returned to the Vaults upon completion. The loss, disposal, or exhaustion of procured magical devices and consumables is subject to the scrutiny of the Senate.​
*Article XI – Mundane Stores & Wealth*

Section I – Access

Access to the mundane stores and wealth of the Covenant shall be regulated by the Office of the Consul, pursuant to the rights and entitlements of the Members, and beholden to the Senate.

No Member shall place at his disposal the mundane stores or wealth belonging to the Covenant, without the consent of the Senate.

Section II – Allotment

All Members are entitled to that amount of silver or kind required for the necessary and luxurious provisioning of their persons, to insure acceptable standards of health and comfort as befits their station.

Members in good standing with the Covenant are entitled to a seasonal allotment of silver or kind, the amount and specifics to be determined by the Senate, with which to subsidize their health and comfort, provision their laboratory, or otherwise dispose of as they see fit.

Section III – Acquired Stores & Wealth

Members shall surrender to the Covenant all mundane stores, sundries, and equipment not of immediate or functional use to the Member.

Members shall surrender nine out of every ten parts of acquired mundane wealth to the Covenant, retaining one in ten parts for himself.

Section IV – Procurement of Mundane Stores & Wealth for Missions & Endeavors

A Member undertaking a mission or endeavor of concern to the Covenant may, with the consent of the Consul, procure from the Vaults one part in ten, or ten parts, whichever is less, from available mundane supplies, sundries, equipment, and wealth, for disposal during the course of the mission or endeavor. Unspent stores or wealth shall be returned to the Vaults upon completion. The disposal of procured mundane stores and wealth is subject to the scrutiny of the Senate.​
*Article XII – Communal Laboratories*

Section I – Establishment & Maintenance

The Senate may establish one or more communal laboratories, to be provisioned and maintained at the expense of the Covenant.

Section II – Access

Access to any communal laboratory shall be regulated by the Office of the Consul, beholden to the Senate. No Member shall avail himself of any communal laboratory without first acquiring the necessary permission. 

Covenant duty shall take precedence to personal ambitions in all requests for access to any communal laboratory.​
*Article XIII – Duties, Obligations, and Responsibilities of the Covenant of Teneo*

Section I – Visiting Redcaps, Quaesitori, and Magi

The Covenant and its Members shall extend due courtesy, respect, and hospitality to any and all Redcaps or Queasitori on official business, providing lodging, sustenance, and recompense suitable to their official capacity.

The Covenant and its Members shall extend due courtesy, respect, and hospitality to any visiting Magus or Maga not banned from the Covenant by the Council, striving to provide adequate lodging, sustenance, and recompense suitable to their deemed status and expectations, within the means of the Covenant.

Section II – Peregrinatores & Conditions of Hospitality

The Covenant, in accordance with the Peripheral Code, shall formally publish the following Conditions of Hospitality:

Hospitality shall extend for a period of three years.

The Guest must take an oath of fellowship with the Members of Teneo.

The Guest shall not establish a Sanctum on the grounds of the Covenant.

The Guest shall pay the Host a fee of three pawns of vis per year.

The Guest shall have access to the Library with the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities as a Member.

The Guest shall provision a Laboratory at his own expense, else pay an additional fee of 1 pawn per year for use of a Laboratory provided and provisioned by the Covenant, if one is available.

The Host shall provision the Guest at the same level of luxury, comfort, and sustenance as that of a Member.

Section III – The Well-being of Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk

The Covenant and its Members shall meet the essential needs of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk who reside within the Covenant Proper. Essential needs include food, shelter, clothing, and protection. 

The Covenant and its Members shall strive to provide the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk who reside within the Covenant Proper with comforts and luxuries, as befits their station, when such provisioning is within the means of the Covenant and is not detrimental to the well-being of the Covenant or its Members.​
*Article XIV – Custos, Grogs, & Covenfolk*

Section I – The Right to Life

No Member of the Covenant shall suffer death upon any Custos, Grog, or Covenfolk without the knowledge and consent of the Senate.

Exception I – Militants in the Line of Duty

Any militant charged with the protection of a Member of the Covenant who endangers the life of that Member, either directly or indirectly, through cowardice or malicious wont, may be punished with death by the offended Member without notification or consent of the Senate. Execution under this exception is subject to the scrutiny of the Senate.​
Section II – The Right to Religion

The Members of the Covenant shall tolerate the beliefs and convictions of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk in matters of religion and spirituality so long as such beliefs or convictions do not threaten the Covenant or its Members, nor interfere with the responsibilities and duties of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk, nor cause undue hostility or agitation amongst the Custos, Grogs, or Covenfolk.

The Members of the Covenant shall strive to accommodate the special holidays and observances dictated by the religious practices of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk so long as the holidays or observances do not interfere with the responsibilities and duties of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk, nor cause undue hostility or agitation amongst the Custos, Grogs, or Covenfolk.

The Members of the Covenant shall not publicly exhibit hostility, condemnation, or condescension towards the Custos, Grogs, or Covenfolk in regards to their religious or spiritual beliefs, conviction, observances, or practices; so as not to endanger the Covenant from external sources. 

Section III – Settlement of Disputes, Low and High Crimes, & Customary Law

Disputes between Custos, Grogs, or Covenfolk shall be resolved locally, in observance of Customary Law, as witnessed and enforced by the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk, without the intervention or interference of the Members of the Covenant; this to insure peaceful harmony and tradition within the ranks of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk.

Disputes between Custos, Grogs, or Covenfolk that cannot be resolved locally shall be mediated by the Mundane Offices of the Covenant. Those offenses classified as Low Crimes against the Covenant shall be arbitrated by the Mundane Offices of the Covenant.

Disputes and Low Crimes that cannot be reasonably or amicably resolved by the Mundane Offices of the Covenant, and those offenses classified as High Crimes against the covenant, shall be arbitrated by the Consul or Proconsul, unless of such heinous or seriousness nature as to require a greater authority, in which case the dispute shall be judged by the Senate at the next seasonal meeting.

Low and High Crimes against the Covenant shall be detailed in the Written Law of the Covenant, as maintained by the Office of the Captain.  The Written Law of the Covenant shall be maintained in the vulgar language of the Custos, Grogs, and Covenfolk, hereby specified as German.​
*Article XV – Ammendments & Addendums to the Charter*

No Ammendment or Addendum shall be made to this Charter of the Covenant of Teneo without the unanimous consent of the Senate.​
[/SBLOCK]


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## Yair (Oct 27, 2005)

Ah, I totally misinterperted the map. The map is not the territory. Hmm... on second thought, I see no problem with your design.   

Regarding the Charter, now... I see at least one objection I'll be making on Gasparius's behalf (if Olive fails to join us by then). And I'm pretty sure Titus will have his own ideas.
But it's obviously well thought out. Kudos.


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## Nzld (Oct 27, 2005)

*Volkmar Update*

Yair, the Volkmar you have posted is the older version, not the last (updated) one I sent you.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 28, 2005)

Good charter, Gorgamesh will not oppose it for now.


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## Yair (Oct 28, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Yair, the Volkmar you have posted is the older version, not the last (updated) one I sent you.



Please resend the update, then; this is the last version I have on file.


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## Nzld (Oct 28, 2005)

No sense beating around the bush. I've gone ahead and had Valeria submit her proposal for the charter in the IC thread.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 29, 2005)

Nzld, the designs for everything are really great.  Some of these plans seem really ambitious, which would make Titus very excited about them.  However, given how complex these structures would be, it seems like it would take some time to build them, not to mention needing quite a crew of workmen to haul the stone and wood, etc, up the cliff.  I guess we'd be able to use some magic to take shortcuts....

Roman building techniques should be able to handle these structures, it would probably be a matter of manpower.  In particular the excavations for the underground structures would be quite labor intensive, it seems to me.  Just wondering how much resources we have.  If we build something this extensive, we're going to have a hard time hiding it, especially if the Knights come around. Fortified or not they will probably be interested.

I haven't had as much time as I had hoped over the past few days to post or work on my thoughts on the charter, which I had hoped to do before reading yours.  So, I'm going to work on mine over the weekend, then read yours and post on it on Sunday night.

Thanks for all the hard work on the designs.  While I think my drawing skills might be a little better than Yair's     , I don't have any kind of CAD program for producing the neat computer rendered ones like you do.


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## Yair (Oct 29, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> While I think my drawing skills might be a little better than Yair's     , I don't have any kind of CAD program for producing the neat computer rendered ones like you do.



What, suddenly no one appreciates my artistic skills    

I'll hold off posting in the charter-IC thread until Titus does, I think it makes more sense.
(I'll post in the IC thread today.)

Constructing the designed covenant is indeed labor-intensive so there would be no way to hide its construction from the mundanes. Just the caravans of equipment and workers.... 
I would caution you that while Roman construction techniques are certainly capable of constructing such a building, I'm not sure medieval ones are. Titus, being a student of architecture, can be assumed to be versed in the Roman techniques; but he'll need to teach them to the mundane workers.

Magic can greatly aid the construction, to the point of doing everything, but the more you want to use it the more expensive vis-wise and level-wise it becomes. Some examples, for scale:
Conjuring the Mystic Tower, CrTe 35 Ritual

by extension, I came up with the following but I'm not sure it's right...
Conjuring the Mystic Structure
    CrTe 40 Ritual; R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Group
An elaborate stone structure, formed in accordance with mundane building techniques, rises out of the ground. The structure is up to 54,000 cubic feet in size, and up to 80 feet tall at its highest point. You determine the design of the chambers within.
    (Base 3, +1 Touch, +2 Group, +3 size, +3 elaborate design) 

The Mage's Pick, PeTe 15
R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Part
Up to 100 cubic feet of the earth (including dirt or stone) is destroyd. Controlling the shape of the destroyed volume requires a Finesse roll; an EF 6 suffices for a simple area's excavation, EF 9 is required for a more elaborate excavation such as several intersecting tunnels, and EF 12 or more is required for more elaborate excavations still. The caster can frely choose to excavate less material than the maximum allowed.
The resulting structure is not necessarily stable, and may collapse on itself. 
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Part, +2 size)


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## Nzld (Oct 29, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Conjuring the Mystic Structure
> CrTe 40 Ritual; R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Group
> An elaborate stone structure, formed in accordance with mundane building techniques, rises out of the ground. The structure is up to 54,000 cubic feet in size, and up to 80 feet tall at its highest point. You determine the design of the chambers within.
> (Base 3, +1 Touch, +2 Group, +3 size, +3 elaborate design)



I think the parameters of the spell are correct for the size of the structure I designed, though I am at a loss as to how you derived the number 54,000 cubic feet. I assume a pace to equate to about 3 feet. What assumption did you use? 

By my calculations, the volume of the structure (if the entire mass was a single block of stone) is 162,000 cubic feet, or 6000 cubic paces (once again, 1 pace = 3 feet). As a base Group is 10 standard Individuals, our base is then 10 cubic paces, with three raises for Size +3, that allots us 10,000 cubic paces of stone. Since the majority of the structure is hollow and/or open space, we scarcely need that amount, but would likely need more than 1000 cubic paces (which is all Size +2 would allot).

This spell can be done as Group, I suppose, though the actual structure is all one building, not individual buildings. Alternately, it could be Individual, but with Size +4. That would, of course, lower it to Level 35, which would be on par with Conjuring the Mystic Tower (although that spell, I believe, is not necessarily calculated correctly. It has a Size +4, but for the amount of stone actually required for the dimensions specified, it only needs a Size +3 (unless, of course, you want a pillar of solid stone).




			
				Yair said:
			
		

> The Mage's Pick, PeTe 15
> R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Part
> Up to 100 cubic feet of the earth (including dirt or stone) is destroyd. Controlling the shape of the destroyed volume requires a Finesse roll; an EF 6 suffices for a simple area's excavation, EF 9 is required for a more elaborate excavation such as several intersecting tunnels, and EF 12 or more is required for more elaborate excavations still. The caster can frely choose to excavate less material than the maximum allowed.
> The resulting structure is not necessarily stable, and may collapse on itself.
> (Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Part, +2 size)



As the base Individual for stone is 1 cubic pace, not 1 cubic foot (which is for metal), this seems miscalculated. My calculation for paces (as above) is 1 pace = 3 feet. As is, then, I calculate this spell would destroy 100 cubic paces (or 2700 cubic feet) of stone and dirt. A more efficient version, then, would be Size +1 to destroy 10 cubic paces (or 270 cubic feet) of stone and dirt, at PeTe 10. 

This version is feasible for spontaneous casting, which is how I anticipated the underground portion would actually be excavated.


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## Nzld (Oct 29, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Nzld, the designs for everything are really great.  Some of these plans seem really ambitious, which would make Titus very excited about them.  However, given how complex these structures would be, it seems like it would take some time to build them, not to mention needing quite a crew of workmen to haul the stone and wood, etc, up the cliff.  I guess we'd be able to use some magic to take shortcuts....
> 
> Roman building techniques should be able to handle these structures, it would probably be a matter of manpower.  In particular the excavations for the underground structures would be quite labor intensive, it seems to me.  Just wondering how much resources we have.  If we build something this extensive, we're going to have a hard time hiding it, especially if the Knights come around. Fortified or not they will probably be interested.



The designs are for a completed covenant, so I do not anticipate us reaching that point anytime soon... or even, perhaps, before Tribunal. My goal is to get an idea for what we want to achieve, and then we can determine how best to strive for it (and I can make new maps to show the current status as we progress from our first wooden huts, to our first stone room, etc.).

Ultimately, I just want to get an idea of what we all want in the covenant. In earlier posts you mentioned Titus wanted Roman-style architecture, and then further mentioned gardens (assumed expansive Roman gardens) and even Roman baths. This implied to me that he defintely does want an impressive structure, and not some minor shantys in the hopes of remaining secreted away.

Strahd mentioned a domed structure over the stone ring for our meetings. In part, this correlates to my idea of having the council chamber centered on the rings (though underground) to honor any mystical connections to the magic of the stones, blah blah, etc. etc. But I didn't think it wise to build a dome over the stones themselves, so I added the central tower with its domed roof and oculus. 

Anyway, the covenant may prove to be a living thing and not evolve how we envision it anyway. There are many years ahead of us with which it might take on a life and character all its own.

As I mentioned previously, I don't think we can long remain secret regardless of what we build, unless we truly live like hermits, or move everything completely underground. So that is not a major factor in my design (or in Valeria's IC opinions, when they come up). She would rather live in splendor and luxury and find some mundane means of "disguising" the truth of the covenant, rather than try to hide the covenant itself. As a member of the Apple Gild, I think that fits with her better, anyway.

FYI: As mentioned in my post on Yair's spell ideas, I anticipate the majority of the underground excavation to be done magically with PeTe (spontaneously, most likely, though I don't think it would be too hard for Titus to create an appropriate spell). The underground area isn't all that massive, so would not take that long to Perdo away. The only mundane need would be to have miners/engineers to make it structurally sound, flesh out the rooms, and add the final touches, etc. Ultimately, I don't see this as being the most labor intensive aspect of the covenant.


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## Yair (Oct 29, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> I think the parameters of the spell are correct for the size of the structure I designed, though I am at a loss as to how you derived the number 54,000 cubic feet. I assume a pace to equate to about 3 feet. What assumption did you use?
> 
> By my calculations, the volume of the structure (if the entire mass was a single block of stone) is 162,000 cubic feet, or 6000 cubic paces (once again, 1 pace = 3 feet). As a base Group is 10 standard Individuals, our base is then 10 cubic paces, with three raises for Size +3, that allots us 10,000 cubic paces of stone. Since the majority of the structure is hollow and/or open space, we scarcely need that amount, but would likely need more than 1000 cubic paces (which is all Size +2 would allot).



Ah, see, I suffer from those numbers again. I blame the British; I think I counted 1 pace=1 feet. Down with Imperial measures! Go metric already!
You are right, of course. My numbers were based on the size of the mass of rock formed by Conjuring the Mystic Tower. Still, the end result is the same spell (creating up to 10,000 cubic paces of stone).



> This spell can be done as Group, I suppose, though the actual structure is all one building, not individual buildings. Alternately, it could be Individual, but with Size +4. That would, of course, lower it to Level 35, which would be on par with Conjuring the Mystic Tower (although that spell, I believe, is not necessarily calculated correctly. It has a Size +4, but for the amount of stone actually required for the dimensions specified, it only needs a Size +3 (unless, of course, you want a pillar of solid stone).



Perhaps they are counting the foundations too (20 extra feet)?
A building is a Structure, not an Individual (see PeTe's "castle-raiser" spell, for example), and a Structure must exist before the spell - hence, we can't directly Creo the building. Instead, we Creo the parts and put them together into a building. And the building has many parts, hence Group...



> As the base Individual for stone is 1 cubic pace, not 1 cubic foot (which is for metal), this seems miscalculated. My calculation for paces (as above) is 1 pace = 3 feet. As is, then, I calculate this spell would destroy 100 cubic paces (or 2700 cubic feet) of stone and dirt. A more efficient version, then, would be Size +1 to destroy 10 cubic paces (or 270 cubic feet) of stone and dirt, at PeTe 10.
> 
> This version is feasible for spontaneous casting, which is how I anticipated the underground portion would actually be excavated.



Again, you are absolutely correct.


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## Nzld (Oct 29, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Perhaps they are counting the foundations too (20 extra feet)?



I took that into consideration... even counting the additional mass for the foundation, I feel the CtMT should only be Size+3, not Size +4.  Not that it matters, I am comfortable with it being a level 35 spell and wouldn't expect it to be only a level 30 spell... just arguing the mechanics... and level 40 for the Teneo version isn't too much to ask for, either.




			
				Yair said:
			
		

> A building is a Structure, not an Individual (see PeTe's "castle-raiser" spell, for example), and a Structure must exist before the spell - hence, we can't directly Creo the building. Instead, we Creo the parts and put them together into a building. And the building has many parts, hence Group...



I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree on the logic. A building is a Structure, but for purposes of Targets, a non-existent building is not a Structure. Also, as a Group is a collection of Individuals, if a building cannot be considered an Individual, than neither can it be considered a Group, and we know that Creo conjuration spells can only have one or the other as Target. I also don't think it can be argued that a building has many parts, and thus requires Group, as the very spell we are mimicking (Conjuring the Mystical Tower) also creates a building (the tower) and that building surely has multiple parts, as well, yet it is Individual for the purposes of Target.

As for End of the Mighty Castle, it uses Target: Structure as a convenience, and possibly to allow it to specifically destroy all stone within the structure as well, but I believe that within the rules, it could have been written with Target: Individual, but would have then required Size +3 to make up for the loss of size inherent to Target: Structure (×1000), so the spell level would be the same.


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## Yair (Oct 29, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree on the logic. A building is a Structure, but for purposes of Targets, a non-existent building is not a Structure.



So far, we agree.


> Also, as a Group is a collection of Individuals, if a building cannot be considered an Individual, than neither can it be considered a Group, and we know that Creo conjuration spells can only have one or the other as Target.



Here we differ. *If* a building is a collection of several blocks of stone that are each Individual target, then I reckon it can be considered a Group. So a building may very well not be an Individual while being a Group. Now, as for why it is a collection instead of an Individual to begin with, the next part...



> I also don't think it can be argued that a building has many parts, and thus requires Group, as the very spell we are mimicking (Conjuring the Mystical Tower) also creates a building (the tower) and that building surely has multiple parts, as well, yet it is Individual for the purposes of Target.



Ahh, not so. The spell specifically states the tower is made from one block of stone. The spell creates ONE stone, albeit formed in a fancy and elaborate shape, and is hence an Individual. Our spell creates many different stones, and hence requires a Group target.



> As for End of the Mighty Castle, it uses Target: Structure as a convenience, and possibly to allow it to specifically destroy all stone within the structure as well, but I believe that within the rules, it could have been written with Target: Individual, but would have then required Size +3 to make up for the loss of size inherent to Target: Structure (×1000), so the spell level would be the same.



Mmm, with this logic there is no sense to the Room or Structure or even Boundary targets. Why target a Boundary to affect, say, a field - when what I want to do is affect the Individual field? Mythically, it makes perfect sense for it to be an Individual.
I prefer to be more strict about it. If it makes sense to treat the target as a Boundary/Strucutre/Room, it should be treated that way instead of being treated as an Individual.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 30, 2005)

Titus will be happy to learn the spell to form the underground caverns, especially if it results in an intricate labyrinthine structure.  Likewise the above ground, he too would prefer luxery even though it may not be the most prudent course, given the potentially hostile neighbors.  But, I envision Titus as someone who loves grand ideas and doesn't necessarily think through all the consequences.  As long as the end result is a beautiful structure, he'll be happy.  The prudent course of action would probably be to finish the underground structure first, then once we're established and have worked out alliances with our neighbors (and solved the problem of the stag) then build the more visible above-ground buildings.


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## Nzld (Oct 30, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Ahh, not so. The spell specifically states the tower is made from one block of stone. The spell creates ONE stone, albeit formed in a fancy and elaborate shape, and is hence an Individual. Our spell creates many different stones, and hence requires a Group target.



Okay, I now see your logic more clearly. You are approaching from the consideration that we are creating the individual bricks. I was envisioning it like the tower, as simply creating a single mass of stone in the desired shape of the structure. In that light, Group does make sense.




			
				Yair said:
			
		

> Mmm, with this logic there is no sense to the Room or Structure or even Boundary targets. Why target a Boundary to affect, say, a field - when what I want to do is affect the Individual field? Mythically, it makes perfect sense for it to be an Individual.
> I prefer to be more strict about it. If it makes sense to treat the target as a Boundary/Strucutre/Room, it should be treated that way instead of being treated as an Individual.



Ah, but you are looking at it only from the perspective that the "structure" or "room" targeted is the actual thing to be affected. The Room, Structure, and Boundary Targets are not specifically intended to affect the target, but what is *within* the target. For 'End of the Mighty Castle' to PeTe a castle, Individual or Structure could both work... but what if you instead wanted to cast a PeCo 'Slaying the Inhabitants of the Castle' spell... at Individual, you can only affect one person... at Group, you can only affect a select group which you would have to be aware of.... but with Structure, you can kill everyone inside the castle without having to see them or even know they are there. Just touch the castle and BAM!

I am not sure how to categorize a field. Logically, yes, it could be considered Individual, but then, logically, I can see where a mountain could be considered Individual. The rules are specific enough in that regard to say it is not Individual because it is not discrete. I would say a field falls in the same category and is not discrete enough from the ground to be Individual.


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## Yair (Oct 30, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Ah, but you are looking at it only from the perspective that the "structure" or "room" targeted is the actual thing to be affected. [snip]  Just touch the castle and BAM!



Yes, there are still uses for the larger Targets, but still I think it is best to err on the side of caution.

I've asked about the two versions of the spell, with Individual or Group targets, at the Ars Magica mailing list. We'll see what (if any) response it will have there.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 30, 2005)

Wow, there's a spell where you touch the castle and everyone inside dies?  Is that a new spell in ArM 5e?  Seems a lot more powerful than spells in the old edition.

If those knights give us trouble, could come in handy... assuming they live in a castle....


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## MummyKitty (Oct 30, 2005)

In brief, how does Vis work in ArM 5e?  Does it just give bonuses for casting?  Given the small amount that we have, it seems like it would be more useful for research or rituals?

EDIT: Found Nzld's previous post on this... Is +2 to cast a big deal?  I think I'd rather use the vis for rituals, experiments or enchanting items....


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## Nzld (Oct 30, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Wow, there's a spell where you touch the castle and everyone inside dies?  Is that a new spell in ArM 5e?  Seems a lot more powerful than spells in the old edition.
> 
> If those knights give us trouble, could come in handy... assuming they live in a castle....



It is not an existent spell, but possible under 5th Edition rules:

*Slaying the Inhabitants of the Castle : PeCo 50 : Ritual*
*R:* Touch    *D:* Momentary    *T:* Structure

Kills everyone person within a single structure, such as a castle, keep, or manor house. The spell must penetrate Magic Resistance to kill an individual.

[Base 30 (kill a person), +1 Touch, +3 Structure]


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## Nzld (Oct 30, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> In brief, how does Vis work in ArM 5e?  Does it just give bonuses for casting?  Given the small amount that we have, it seems like it would be more useful for research or rituals?
> 
> EDIT: Found Nzld's previous post on this... Is +2 to cast a big deal?  I think I'd rather use the vis for rituals, experiments or enchanting items....



Yes, purely for casting, the bonus is only +2  (a significant decrease from the +5 of ArM4), and, in general, I agree, it is more economical to use it for enchanted items, rituals, etc. But, there are times when a +2 can make a world of difference: to get an extra point or two in penetration, to help get off a spontaneous spell, etc. Better to have the option available, and not be used, then to need it, and not have it.

Also, certain Virtues allow you to use vis to boost Range, Duration, or Target, similar to how it was done in ArM4.


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## Yair (Oct 31, 2005)

Titus's Mercurian Magic virtue will come to bear as he casts the Aegis of the Hearth. I am going to improve upon the core ArM5 virtue slightly, as the virtue is balanced with thought of a supportive Mercurian society and rules for reading from books in mind. 

I'm gonna edit this post with the new virtue's description tonight. Basically, it allows him to cast it with less raw vis and adds a few other cherrys.


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## Yair (Oct 31, 2005)

*Poor Gasparius*

I've just been informed that Olive, Gasparius's player, will not be joining us. That leaves us with the following options, as far as I can tell:
1) We retrofit history to never include Gasparius in the first place. Not much happened yet regarding him, so that's not too bad, but it does leave the covenant somewhat smaller and the politics weirder.
2) I continue to play Gasparius as an NPC. That means he won't be the star at any point, but he could still go out to missions that would either be resolved on the background or with other main characters (perhaps just companions and grogs). If one of you would like to pick up an adventure or two, Gasparius could join in as a real character with me at the helm.
3) We make Gasparius a shared character, much like a grog. Anyone can play him.
4) Someone else takes up playing Gasparius in addition to his main character.
5) I continue to play Gasparius as an NPC but arrange for him to leave the covenant as soon as possible - to death, twilight, arcadia, another covenant, or wherever.

I'd like to hear everyone's vote on this matter.


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## Nzld (Oct 31, 2005)

*Poor Gasparius*

My instinct is to kill him off... and then begin the search for another player.

There were several responses to your posting on the Delphi forums... did any of those guys ever make contact with you?


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Oct 31, 2005)

Let him be cought by the church and burned on the stake ... 
or let the redcap murder him at night and eat him like a ghoul, then mighty
Gorgamesh will slain the redcap and gain a level.

And afterward seek a new player.


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## Yair (Oct 31, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> My instinct is to kill him off... and then begin the search for another player.
> 
> There were several responses to your posting on the Delphi forums... did any of those guys ever make contact with you?



Nzld, I'm getting a clear (5) from Roy, but is your vote a (5) or (1)?

And no, no one contacted me from the Delphi forums.


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## Nzld (Oct 31, 2005)

*Poor Gasparius*

It is a 5.


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## MummyKitty (Oct 31, 2005)

I actually like Gasparius as an NPC (option 2), maybe until we get a new player, but I think it would probably be better to get him out of the story at some point.  I think Roy's idea is very creative   but maybe the stag needs another victim?


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## Yair (Nov 1, 2005)

I, eh, got some new books so I got sidetracked a bit.    (Specifically, Houses of Hermes: True Lineages, Realms of Power: The Divine, and The Shackled City Adventure Path.) Expect some divine mayham coming your way when this adventure is done   

I'll make posts tonight. Honest.


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## Nzld (Nov 1, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> I, eh, got some new books so I got sidetracked a bit.    (Specifically, Houses of Hermes: True Lineages, Realms of Power: The Divine, and The Shackled City Adventure Path.) Expect some divine mayham coming your way when this adventure is done



Oh Yes! Houses of Hermes: True Lineages has some really good stuff in it. Let us know as soon as you can what you are willing to allow in the campaign. I have Realms of Power: The Divine, as well, but haven't made the time to read through it very much.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Nov 1, 2005)

Yair - Maybe you can talk to Assaf and tell him to join the game ...
what about Amir and Poly ?
Or you can just open a new thread for recruiting, cause when people see alot of replies
they tend to ignore the thread, so open a new one and recruit.


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## Yair (Nov 1, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Or you can just open a new thread for recruiting, cause when people see alot of replies
> they tend to ignore the thread, so open a new one and recruit.



I'll do that.
I don't think inviting the old crowed will work; they all know I'm running a game, I don't care to invite them twice.



			
				Nzld said:
			
		

> Oh Yes! Houses of Hermes: True Lineages has some really good stuff in it. Let us know as soon as you can what you are willing to allow in the campaign. I have Realms of Power: The Divine, as well, but haven't made the time to read through it very much.



I suspect I'll be willing to allow anything if the player wants it. I won't be inserting _every_thing, but if the player wants _some_thing it is reason enough to insert it into the campaign, and I don't predict particularly broken mechanics.
It will take me some time to digest everything, though. All in good time.

Generally,
I'll continue playing Gasparius as an NPC for now, and will arrange for getting him out of the game as soon as the opportunity arises IC.
I will post the first IC post for the expedition in a day or two, after Gorgamesh and Gasparius have taken their oaths and perhaps more expedition-related posts if you want to make any (Volkmar reporting, Frank eying the trail as you begin the expedition, whatever).

Edit: Nzld, Notice how the text on Tempers in RoP:TD is similar to my own. Heh heh. I do believe the virtue is called Premonitions.


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## Yair (Nov 1, 2005)

*The Revised Mercurian Magic Virtue*

*MERCURIAN MAGIC*

Major, Hermetic
Your magical lineage and traditions are from the Roman priests of Mercury, which predate the Order of Hermes, making you especially skilled with Ritual Magic and magic used in conjunction with others. In addition to your standard spell allocation, you also know Wizard's Communion at a level equal to the highest level of Ritual spell that you know, and should you invent or learn a Ritual spell of higher level, you automatically invent a Wizard's Communion spell of the same level, without needing to spend extra time. Record only the highest-level Wizard's Communion that you know (since a lower level offers no advantage). Your Mastery score in Wizard's Communion is maintained even as the spell's level increases.

You may write a Lab Text of a Wizard's Communion of a level up to the level you know it at as a Season's work. A lab text of Wizard's Communion is not created as part of inventing another ritual spell.

When casting a spell using Wizard's Communion, you may add your Mastery score (page 86) in the spell being cast and your Mastery score in Wizard's Communion to the effective level of the Wizard's Communion. 

Finally, any Ritual spells which you cast have only half the usual vis requirement. If cast as part of a Wizard's Communion, the main caster needs to have this Virtue to gain this benefit. If all the participants in the Wizard's Communion have this Virtue, calculate the amount of Warping Points on a botch as if there was a single caster and divide them amongst the communion's participants in order of ascending Wizard's Communion level (randomly when tied). Any magus that gains 1 or less Warping Points as a result need not check for Twilight.

Your concentration in Ritual magic has a downside, however - you may only cast Spontaneous magic using the rules for Ceremonial Casting (page 83).
[sblock]Originally, it was:
MERCURIAN MAGIC

Major, Hermetic
Your magical lineage and traditions are from the Roman priests of Mercury, which predate the Order of Hermes, making you especially skilled with Ritual Magic and magic used in conjunction with others. In addition to your standard spell allocation, you also know Wizard's Communion at a level equal to the highest level of Ritual spell that you know, and should you invent or learn a Ritual spell of higher level, you automatically invent a Wizard's Communion spell of the same level, without needing to spend extra time.

When casting a spell using Wizard's Communion, you may add your Mastery score (page 86 in the spell being cast and your Mastery score in Wizard's Communion to the effective level of the Wizard's Communion.
Finally, any Ritual spells which you cast have only half the usual vis requirement. If cast as part of a Wizard's Communion, all the participants need to have this Virtue to gain this benefit.
Your concentration in Ritual magic has a downside, however - you may only cast Spontaneous magic using the rules for Ceremonial Casting (page 83).[/sblock]


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## Yair (Nov 2, 2005)

Nzld: No, I'm afraid there is no AC to be had from the stag.

I assumed you have started the expedition with Nzld's suggested roster, as there were no comments on it, and that you are following the stag's trail as Strahd indicated.
I'll update the first posts on this thread appropriately.

I keep thinking I'm forgetting something... nevermind


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 2, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> I'll do that.
> I don't think inviting the old crowed will work; they all know I'm running a game, I don't care to invite them twice.



Are you folks still looking for a new player?  I've got the AM5 book, and I'd love to use it.  Let me know if you are, and I'll whip something up later tonight.

Nick


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## MummyKitty (Nov 2, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Nzld: No, I'm afraid there is no AC to be had from the stag.
> 
> I assumed you have started the expedition with Nzld's suggested roster, as there were no comments on it, and that you are following the stag's trail as Strahd indicated.
> I'll update the first posts on this thread appropriately.
> ...




Oops, sorry, I was busy last night so I couldn't post. I did want to do one thing before we left-- ask the Redcap if we can borrow her magical direction finder for this journey....  Did she ever confirm if she would be staying at the covenant until we return?  Would her wounds be severe enough to require her to stay?

Did we cast the Aegis of the Hearth before leaving?

And to confirm, Titus has Mercurian Magic, right?


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## MummyKitty (Nov 2, 2005)

Another thing, Mattihus had talked to Volkmar about working with the scribe to create a map, would there have been time to do that? Not that it will do us much good now that we've tramped off into the woods on a wild-stag chase, I guess.  I would have preferred following the road and visiting the village but I suppose it's too late now.


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## Yair (Nov 2, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Are you folks still looking for a new player?  I've got the AM5 book, and I'd love to use it.  Let me know if you are, and I'll whip something up later tonight.
> 
> Nick



Yes, we are! One of the would-be-players never played and apparently never will, so we have an opening I'm very eager to fill.
His character is Gasparius, which I'm NPCing right now. You can either
1) Create an entirely new magus, preferably from Fengheld or Durenmar, that will join the PCs. In this case Gasparius will leave shortly. However, it may take a little while IC for us to be able to integrate your magus into the game; I welcome any ideas on how to speed that up.
2) Create a magus from Fengheld that is close enough to Gasparius so you could just replace him fairly seamlessly - or just take over his character. I'm not expecting you to want to do that, but if you want to...

At any case, I recommend creating a Companion that will reach the covenant independently. If it's appropriate, he can be part of the expedition party, letting you play him immediately.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 2, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> At any case, I recommend creating a Companion that will reach the covenant independently. If it's appropriate, he can be part of the expedition party, letting you play him immediately.




Good deal.  I'd be looking at making an entirely new magus, and don't mind the IC wait until you can incorporate him into the game.  And I'm happy to create a companion, too, and play that character in the meantime.  Do we have a list somewhere of characters and companions that I can look at so I don't step on anyone's toes?

Nick


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## Yair (Nov 2, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Oops, sorry, I was busy last night so I couldn't post. I did want to do one thing before we left-- ask the Redcap if we can borrow her magical direction finder for this journey....  Did she ever confirm if she would be staying at the covenant until we return?  Would her wounds be severe enough to require her to stay?
> 
> Did we cast the Aegis of the Hearth before leaving?
> 
> And to confirm, Titus has Mercurian Magic, right?



Her magical direction finder got lost when she run away from the stag. However, if it is any consolation, Lukas _is_ a magical direction finder... using his Wilderness Sense ability, he has a pretty good chance of finding the direction.
She would be staying at the covenant until her wounds heal,which even with Old Magd's good care should take at least a month (for the Medium wound).
I assume you did cast an Aegis before you set out, I thought we'll skim that, but we don't need to if you want to raise it IC. (Come to think of it, I didn't update your vis stocks accordingly. I'll correct that soon.)
And yes, Titus has Mercurian Magic.

As a general note, one of the advantages of an PbP is that you can do "flashbacks" more easily - if you want to, for example, discuss and describe the Aegis of the Hearth ritual. But make sure you title your post accordingly, to avoid confusion.


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## Yair (Nov 2, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Another thing, Mattihus had talked to Volkmar about working with the scribe to create a map, would there have been time to do that? Not that it will do us much good now that we've tramped off into the woods on a wild-stag chase, I guess.  I would have preferred following the road and visiting the village but I suppose it's too late now.



There was plenty of time, enough to draw a rough map.

I guess I should have waited longer with the IC-post. I was growing itchy for some action.


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## Yair (Nov 2, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Do we have a list somewhere of characters and companions that I can look at so I don't step on anyone's toes?



Indeed we do. Look up the first few posts in this thread. One of them includes all the characters at the scene. The covenant is described in another, and includes a list of all characters, and the details of the shared characters. The details of the player's characters are described in a seperate post for each player.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 2, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Indeed we do. Look up the first few posts in this thread. One of them includes all the characters at the scene. The covenant is described in another, and includes a list of all characters, and the details of the shared characters. The details of the player's characters are described in a seperate post for each player.




Okay, cool; that's wicked helpful.  When I'm finished, where should I post my character so you can check it out?

Nick


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## Yair (Nov 2, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Okay, cool; that's wicked helpful.  When I'm finished, where should I post my character so you can check it out?



I'd prefer if you'll just email it to me. Barring that, the OOC thread is fine for that I suppose.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Nov 2, 2005)

Welcome Kajamba lion


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 3, 2005)

Thanks, Strahd.  

I'll e-mail it to you, Yair.  I assume your e-mail's in your profile.  If not, just let me know.

Nick


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## MummyKitty (Nov 3, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> There was plenty of time, enough to draw a rough map.
> 
> I guess I should have waited longer with the IC-post. I was growing itchy for some action.




No problem at all, I was looking forward to some action too!  I'm fine with continuing and thanks for answering my questions. No need to re-play the Aegis unless others want to...  suffice to say for me that we have successfully cast it.

At this point, Titus will mainly follow Volkmar's suggestions for the route of the expedition, and if he was OK traipsing off after the stag, who am I to question this mighty fighter?  Guess I need to look at the other character sheets at some point, though I kind of like finding out about their abilities and background in character.

And-- WELCOME Kajamba Lion!!!


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## Nzld (Nov 3, 2005)

Actually, Volkmar would have inquired with the magi as to how they want to procede. He is by no means running the show, here. Assuming Mattihus was able to get the map made up, Volkmar would have confered with the magi over it, and advised them of Mattihus's recommendation regarding the local village with the inside scoop on the stag. That is where I would have assumed we would have gone first.


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## Yair (Nov 3, 2005)

So... I will retract my last IC post. Strike it for internet-based misunderstanding. When the characters have started pacing IC, I'll make the next IC installment.


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## MummyKitty (Nov 3, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Actually, Volkmar would have inquired with the magi as to how they want to procede. He is by no means running the show, here. Assuming Mattihus was able to get the map made up, Volkmar would have confered with the magi over it, and advised them of Mattihus's recommendation regarding the local village with the inside scoop on the stag. That is where I would have assumed we would have gone first.




That's kind of what I would have wanted to do as well, but was trying to fit in with what Yair posted.  I'm fine with a "do over".


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 3, 2005)

Thanks, MummyKitty.

*Yair*: Scrap that character; I'll work another one out tonight — I feel like it (1) steps on a few toes, the more I look at other characters, and (2) doesn't fit.  I'll have something more proper done tonight.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 4, 2005)

*Yair*: Sent the new magus.  I'm going to take a break now, but I'll whip up a companion later tonight or over the weekend.


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## Yair (Nov 4, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> *Yair*: Sent the new magus.  I'm going to take a break now, but I'll whip up a companion later tonight or over the weekend.



Cool, I'll go over him tonight or tmorrow.
Glad to have you aboard. 

Yair


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## Yair (Nov 4, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> *Yair*: Sent the new magus.  I'm going to take a break now, but I'll whip up a companion later tonight or over the weekend.



Another thing - you can jump right in by picking up a Grog to play with as your character. Perhaps Pavel, for example; he makes for a capable character with his shapeshifting skills.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 4, 2005)

Right on.  I'll snag Pavel and jump in there.


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## Yair (Nov 5, 2005)

*On Understanding Languages*

You can't understand langauges with Hermetic magic. At least, not directly.
Articulated language, whether written or spoken, is manifested in some Form in the world - Imaginem for sounds, Aquam for ink, and so on. These material representations, however, bear no meaning in of themselves. The meaning is constructed in the hearer's or reader's mind.

To understand a foreign language, then, you need an Intellego Mentem spell (or Intellego Animal to understand an animal). The problem is, that such a spell requires a target - and when you only hear the sound, you cannot use a range such as Voice or Touch, or even Sight. 
A possible solution is to make avail of the senses allowed for Intellego spells (ArM5 p. 114). In this case, Hearing is required which is a +3 target. The spell Valeria is after is hence,

*Ear of the Beast*, InAn 25
R: Personal, D: Momentary (a brief sentence), T: Hearing
You understanad the speech of animals. Most animals have very crude thoughts and, hence, speech, but some can be very intelligent.
This spell does not allow you to speak back to the animal in its own langauge. Each animal kind has a different lanaguge, and while you can understand all you can speak none.
(Base 10 (roughly "speak with an animal"), +3 Hearing)

I do believe this is beyond your ability to spontnously cast, especially without braking a sweat. 

As an aside, there is another way to understand language: you can change your mind into that of a beast, thus understanding it. This is

*Harnessed Mind of the Beast*, MuMe (req: An) 25
R: Personal, D: Concentration, T: Part
You change your understanding of language to that of an animal of your choice. You can understand the speech of this animal, but human languages sound like animalistic, meaningless, grunts.
(Base 15, +1 Concentration, +1 Part)

Anyways, that's my thougts on the matter. Feel free to prove me wrong.


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## Nzld (Nov 5, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> You can't understand langauges with Hermetic magic. At least, not directly.
> Articulated language, whether written or spoken, is manifested in some Form in the world - Imaginem for sounds, Aquam for ink, and so on. These material representations, however, bear no meaning in of themselves. The meaning is constructed in the hearer's or reader's mind.
> 
> To understand a foreign language, then, you need an Intellego Mentem spell (or Intellego Animal to understand an animal). The problem is, that such a spell requires a target - and when you only hear the sound, you cannot use a range such as Voice or Touch, or even Sight.
> A possible solution is to make avail of the senses allowed for Intellego spells (ArM5 p. 114). In this case, Hearing is required which is a +3 target. The spell Valeria is after is hence,



Yes, I agree.




			
				Yair said:
			
		

> *Harnessed Mind of the Beast*, MuMe (req: An) 25
> R: Personal, D: Concentration, T: Part
> You change your understanding of language to that of an animal of your choice. You can understand the speech of this animal, but human languages sound like animalistic, meaningless, grunts.
> (Base 15, +1 Concentration, +1 Part)
> ...



I agree with the underlying principle here, but I do not think this requires a +1 Part modifier. The Part target specifically refers to physical parts of an individual. The "mind" is not a physical part, and this spell is not literally Muto'ing the "brain" into that of the animal. Otherwise, this would seem to imply that all Mentem spells have to use Part and cannot use Individual.


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## Yair (Nov 5, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> I agree with the underlying principle here, but I do not think this requires a +1 Part modifier. The Part target specifically refers to physical parts of an individual. The "mind" is not a physical part, and this spell is not literally Muto'ing the "brain" into that of the animal. Otherwise, this would seem to imply that all Mentem spells have to use Part and cannot use Individual.



Compare the spell to "Mind of the Beast", which is really what it's based on. The latter is a curse, changing your mind to that of a beast. That's not what you're after here - you only want to change one faculty of your mind, leaving the rest intact. I figured you could do that by affecting only Part of the mind, which _is_ the Individual for Mentem spells.
If you don't agree with Part being appropriate, surely you agree that an ad hoc modifier should reflect that creating this effect should be harder than changing the entire mind into that of a beast? I figure that's covered very nicely by the Part target; I'm also willing to go with Individual and require a +1 or +2 ad hoc modfier for complexity and finesse.
Another way to do it would be a Rego requisite, I imagine.

Do you intend me to play out Matthius's reply to you as an NPC?


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## MummyKitty (Nov 5, 2005)

Yair, you may as well go ahead and post for Mattihus, telling what he knows of the village and it's connection to the lycanthropes, unless you want to send it to me to post for him.


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## Nzld (Nov 6, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> Compare the spell to "Mind of the Beast", which is really what it's based on. The latter is a curse, changing your mind to that of a beast. That's not what you're after here - you only want to change one faculty of your mind, leaving the rest intact. I figured you could do that by affecting only Part of the mind, which _is_ the Individual for Mentem spells.
> If you don't agree with Part being appropriate, surely you agree that an ad hoc modifier should reflect that creating this effect should be harder than changing the entire mind into that of a beast? I figure that's covered very nicely by the Part target; I'm also willing to go with Individual and require a +1 or +2 ad hoc modfier for complexity and finesse.
> Another way to do it would be a Rego requisite, I imagine.



I can't agree with you here. You are selecting a Base 15, which is designed to "*utterly* change a person's mind", then tacking on an additional magnitude to *not* utterly change it. If you feel a modifier is required (I don't), then it should be tacked on to a lower base. The bases for Mentem show that it is easier to affect only specific aspects of the mind than it is to affect the entire mind. I would say that completely rewriting a person's faculty for language is more in line with Base 10 "completely rewrite a person's memories". 

Making oneself think like an animal seems to me to be a pretty inherent capability of MuMe(An). The Animal requisite is enough to facilitate this. I can't see where there is any added complexity involved. Perhaps a Finesse roll could be used to determine how well one interprets what is being "said", but that's about it. There are very few spells that have "ad hoc" modifiers to them, and that is with good reason.

And I don't see where Rego would be appropriate.


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## MummyKitty (Nov 6, 2005)

Hm, I admit I am not really following the details of the arguement, but it seems to me that it would be simple to think like an animal, but like a magical creature such as a lycanthope?  May be a bit different /  more difficult...


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## Nzld (Nov 6, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Hm, I admit I am not really following the details of the arguement, but it seems to me that it would be simple to think like an animal, but like a magical creature such as a lycanthope?  May be a bit different /  more difficult...



The spell isn't designed to allow you to "think" like the animal... merely to understand its communication. Yair's description has implied that the howling heard by our characters is how wolves talking would sound if they were to talk. This implies to me that the lycanthropes are communicating as wolves and thus, a normal wolf would be able to understand them. If, on the other hand, they are just in the form of a wolf and are only able to communicate amongst themselves in some form of "werewolf language" (i.e. normal wolves do not understand them, either), then I don't think this spell would be feasible anyway. I think, in that case, only the direct Intellego Mentem would be viable.

Either way, it is beyond Valeria's capability.


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## Yair (Nov 6, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> I can't agree with you here. ..snip..



Alright, you convinced me. That's a Base 10 and Individual target, then. Much easier, at level 15. You can drop it to 10 for a Momentary spell. That's getting close to feasible.

And yes, I did mean to imply it was "wolf langauge", a mind of a wold would suffice.


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## Yair (Nov 7, 2005)

A new player, Sphynx, will be joining us shortly (or so I hope). That will bring the number of magi to 5, so I will be expanding the grog roster and vis stocks. Details will be coming shortly...

I won't be recruiting any more players. I reckon 5 is more or less ideal, I don't want more.


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Nov 7, 2005)

5 players is enough, it's good for the consule and the voting system as well.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 7, 2005)

Excellent.  Say, Yair — did you get my e-mail?

Nick


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## Yair (Nov 7, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Excellent.  Say, Yair — did you get my e-mail?
> 
> Nick



Yep, I did. I'll answer when I get back from work (you emailed me to work BTW... not that it matters).


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 7, 2005)

Sorry about that.  I just replied to the e-mail I received.  And whenever's fine; I just wanted to make sure it got through. 

thanks,
Nick


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## Nzld (Nov 8, 2005)

*Aura?*

Before the spells start flying... is there an aura, magical or otherwise, at our current location?


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## Yair (Nov 8, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Before the spells start flying... is there an aura, magical or otherwise, at our current location?



At your current location - no. Just a plain old mundane road.

I'll only pick up the game this evening (i.e. in about... 12 hours), as I want to use the books which are at home. But that won't stop me from posting to the boards


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## Sphynx (Nov 8, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> A new player, Sphynx, will be joining us shortly (or so I hope). That will bring the number of magi to 5, so I will be expanding the grog roster and vis stocks. Details will be coming shortly...
> 
> I won't be recruiting any more players. I reckon 5 is more or less ideal, I don't want more.




Just wanted to say Hiya.    I'm a super-regular poster kinda player, so you're stuck with me until the game is over I'm afraid.    Anyhows, looking towards making a Rego oriented character, so you know what to expect.

Sphynx


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## MummyKitty (Nov 8, 2005)

Welcome Sphynx!!


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## Yair (Nov 8, 2005)

*Kajamba Lion & Sphynx: Characters*

You two seem to be after the same character concept: a Rego-oriented Tremere filius Stentorius.
Actually, you CAN both be Rego-oriented Tremere (I'd actually find that interesting to have two Tremere, they are a very military-oriented house), but you can't both be Stentorius's filli...

It's all my fault for sending you the same info. I didn't think this one option will be so popular.   
Mea culpa.

At any rate, you should decide how to resolve this on yourselves. Do a certamen or sometihng.   

Yair, who WILL post today for the combat scene. Oh yes.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 8, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Welcome Sphynx!!



I'll second that.  And I've actually changed my Master (mistress?), as I think I can take the same concept I had and put it at a right angle to where I was headed with it and still have it make sense.

*Yair*: I'm moving our other conversation here to this thread, per your request.  I'm s-blocking my PC just to keep the thread fairly clean for the time being.  Some notes —
I've added my Gild, Apple, following after the politics of Octavian's mistress.
I've rearranged the personality traits and assigned them tempers.  I've muted his authoritarian leanings and changed brave to traditionalist.  I'd like him to be slightly afraid of change, but not cripplingly so — it definitely hinders him in matters of politics and whatnot, but he can be convinced that a newer way is a better way (which Daria la Gris had been working on doing).
Otherwise, he should be pretty much good to go now, save for a background, which is pending your approval of his Mistress.  My basic thinking is that perhaps he has been sent to Fengheld and Teneo at the request of Daria, in order to secure more political sway for the Apple Gild, and, if Sphynx goes with being the filius of Stentorius, in order to balance out the influence of Stentorius.  If you approve this, I'll finish out the background.

Nick

[sblock]*Octavian*
Journeyman of House Tremere, filius to Daria la Gris
Apple Gild

Age: 25, Decrepitude 0, Warping Score 0, Confidence 1 (3)

*Characteristics*: Int +3, Per -2, Pre 0, Com 0, Str 0, Sta +2, Dex 0, Qik +1

*Virtues and Flaws*: The Gift, Hermetic Magus; Elemental Magic, Book
Learner, Cautious Sorcerer, Latent Magical Ability, Minor Magical
Focus (certamen)*, Skilled Parens, Ambitious, Weak Magic Resistance,
Susceptibility to Divine Power, Hermetic Prestige, Compulsion
(gambling)

*Personality Traits*: Just +1 (authoritarian), Loyal +2 (respectful), Tolerant -1 (traditionalist)

*Reputations*: Hermetic 3

*Abilities*: Artes Liberales 1 (arithmetic), Charm 2 (magi), Code of
Hermes 1 (certamen law), Etiquette 2 (Hermetic), Finesse 2 (Terram),
Folk Ken 3 (magi), Guile 2 (lying to underlings), Intrigue 2 (Hermetic
politics), Latin 4 (Hermetic terms), Magic Theory 3 (Creo), German 5
(giving orders), Order of Hermes Lore 2 (Tremere), Parma Magica 1
(Mentem), Penetration 3 (Ignem)

*Arts*: Cr 5, In 5, Mu 5, Pe 5, Re 5, An 0, Aq 3, Au 6, Co 0, He 0, Ig
6, Im 0, Me 1, Te 6, Vi 0

*Equipment*: Wizardly robes, staff.

*Spells Known*
Circling Winds of Protection (CrAu 20) +13
Rain of Stones (MuAu(Te) 20) +13
Pilum of Fire (CrIg 20) +13
Soothe th Raging Flames (PeIg 20) +13
Tremulous Vault of the Torch's Flame (ReIg 5) +13
Seal the Earth (CrTe 15) +13
Unseen Arm (ReTe 5) +13
Trackless Step (ReTe 10) +13
Hands of the Grasping Earth (ReTe 15) +13
Earth that Breaks No More (MuTe 20) +13

*Background*: Coming soon.[/sblock]


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## Sphynx (Nov 8, 2005)

Well, I could be near anybody but I have a tendency in all my characters to aim for a more telekinetic type character, so that's why I choose the Apprenticeship that I chose.  I'm almost done with my character, and will have it posted, but will go over the list again for any other highly-likely option.  

Sphynx


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## Nzld (Nov 8, 2005)

*Initiative*

Yair,

How exactly are you handling Initiative? The initiative order you posted in the IC thread is just the raw die rolls for Volkmar, Puck, and Valeria, not the modified scores for their Quickness and/or Weapon Skills. Was that an oversight, or are you doing something different?


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Nov 8, 2005)

Welcome Sphynx


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## Yair (Nov 8, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Yair,
> 
> How exactly are you handling Initiative? The initiative order you posted in the IC thread is just the raw die rolls for Volkmar, Puck, and Valeria, not the modified scores for their Quickness and/or Weapon Skills. Was that an oversight, or are you doing something different?



I'm handling it wrong.
Sorry, I misread your post when I wrote down all the inits for myself. I'll correct my post's OOC section... and add it to the Characters At The Scene post, too.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 9, 2005)

After some work, I've finished up my Companion, Erich Waldst, a highwayman fleeing persecution in the Alsace-Lorraine area of Germany.

[sblock]*Erich Waldst*
Highwayman, on the run from the Alsace-Lorraine
Age: 25

*Characteristics*: Int +1, Per +1, Str +1, Sta +1, Pre 0, Com 0, Dex +2, Qik +2

*Flaws*: Outlaw (major), Enemies (major, German nobles from the Alsace-Lorraine) Ability Block (illiterate), Missing Eye
*Virtues*: Common Sense, Improved Characteristics, Lightning Reflexes, Luck, Puissant Guile, Puissant Stealth, Self Confident, Sharp Ears
*Personality Traits*: Wise (clever) +2, Brave (flexible ethics/morals) -3, Strong (practical) +3

*Reputation*: Highwayman 2
*Confidence*: 2 (5)

*Abilities*: Brawl (punches) 2, Folk Ken (thieves and scoundrels) 3, German (slang) 5, Guile (extravagant stories) 2, Intrigue (plotting) 3, Ledgermain (filching) 2, Ride (speed) 2, Single Weapon (short sword) 4, Stealth (hide) 5

*Equipment*: short sword (+1 Init, +3 Atk, +1 Dfn, +5 Dam, -1 Str), heavy leather jerkin (2 Prot)

*Background*: Born poor in the southwestern part of Germany, Erich grew up a bit of a rogue and a scoundrel, running away at a young age.  He survived on whatever he could steal, eventually falling in with some notorious thieves and scoundrels that terrorized peasants, pilgrims, and merchants travelling through the Alsace-Lorraine.  Years of success eventually caught up with him, as he ended up robbing a few nobles by accident and only barely escaping them as he fled to Pomerania.  The road eventually led to Fengheld, where he's subsided on odd jobs and occasional physical labor.  He longs for a reasonably safe place where he could put some of his skills to work in a semi-honest fashion. figuring that his theoretical patron may be willing to stand in between the past and him.[/sblock]


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## Sphynx (Nov 9, 2005)

Character thus far....  Extremely Rego....

Sheet:[sblock]
*Characteristics*[sblock]
*Strength* _+0_ *Stamina* _+0_
*Intelligence* _+1_ *Perception* _+0_
*Quickness* _+2_ *Dexterity* _+2_
*Presence* _+0_ *Communication* _+0_[/sblock]

*Virtues and Flaws*[sblock]
*Virtues*
Major
Flawless Magic
Strong Faerie Blood (Sylph)

Minor
Educated
Puissant Rego
Quiet
Quiet
Fairy Magic (Free from House)


*Flaws*
Major
Weak Spontaneous Magic
Waster of Vis

Minor
Magical Animal Companion (Talking Hawk)
Soft Hearted
Weak Magic
Warped Magic (Gusts of Wind)

[/sblock]

*Personality Traits*
Distracted +1
Friendly +2
Wanderer +2

*Reputation* Apprentice of Stentorius, Master of Rego +3

*Skills*[sblock]
Athletics (Grace): 2
Artes Liberales (Logic): 2
Awareness (Alertness): 2
Brawl (Dodging): 2
Concentration (Spells): 4
Code of Hermes (Mundanes): 1
English (StoryTelling): 5
Faerie Lore (Sylphs): 1
Finesse (Terram): 4
Latin (Magic Use): 4
Legerdemain (Magic Tricks): 1
Magic Lore (Rego): 1
Magic Theory (Rego): 3
Order of Hermes Lore (History): 1
Parma Magica (Corpus): 1
Ride (Speed): 1
Second Sight (Invisible): 2
Stealth (Sneaking): 4
Swim (Underwater): 1
[/sblock]

*Arts*[sblock]
Techniques
Creo: 1
Intelligo: 1
Muto: 1
Perdo: 1
Rego: 10

Forms
Animal: 4
Aquam: 4
Auram: 4
Corpus: 4
Herbam: 4
Ignem: 0
Imagonem: 1
Mentem: 0
Terram: 4
Vim: 0

[/sblock]

*Spells*[sblock]
Wind at the Back _ReAu: 5_
Base: 2    +1 Touch +2 Sun
Mastery: 1 (Still)
As the Book

Air's Ghostly Form _CrAu: 10_
Base:  2    +1 Touch +2 Sun +1 UnNatural
Mastery: 1 (Still)
As the Book, longer Duration

Chamber of Spring Breezes _CrAu: 10_
Base: 1    +1 Touch +2 Room +2 Sun
Mastery: 1 (Still)
As the Book (just Calc'd more understandably)

FarHands _ReTe(Au/*): 15_
Base: 3    +3 Sight +1 Conc
Mastery: 1 (Still)
This spell works like Unseen Porter, but with a greater range. It can be taken with an Auram requisite to overcome the '6 feet above the ground' limitation that Unseen Porter has. Other than that it works exactly like Unseen Porter, providing a Strength +5 ability to move and lift things. Must be cast with appropriate requisites for certain objects.

Flight of the Magus _ReCo: 20_
Base: 15    +1 Conc
Mastery: 1 (Still)
This is a method of movement through the air that is roughly the same speed as a flying bird.  It effects only the Magus.  It is important that the Magus does not lose his concentration, or he will fall, taking +15 damage in the process, Armour does not help soak this damage.  The spell can be increased by 1 magnitude (must be learned as a seperate spell), to have a 'Safety Net' upon losing concentration, offering 1 Diam to return to the ground after Concentration is lost.

Flock of Birds _ReCo(Au): 20_
Base: 4    +1 Conc +1Touch +2 Group
Mastery: 1 (Still)
This spell allows the Magus, and anyone touching his person (which could include his clothing, or items carried, such as a staff) to rise into the air at the speed smoke would travel. Although the group can not fully move horizontally, if cast with an Auram requisite, the group can be pushed by the wind in 1 direction only for about 10 feet, thus allowing them to get on a roof or cliff top.

Lift the Dangling Puppet _ReCo(An): 20_
Base: 4    +3 Sight +1 Conc
Mastery: 1 (Still)
As per the book, but increased range (since his magic is Silent)

Movement of the Mind _ReTe(*): 20_
Base: 2    +3 Sight +1 Conc +2 Group
Mastery: 1 (Still)
This spell works like Unseen Arm, except extended range (since his magic is Silent), and effects multiple objects at once.

[/sblock][/sblock]

Background[sblock]
Born in the Celtic lands near a rather swamp-like area, Dylan was the source of demonic rumours.  At the age of 8, the village had decided that he was definitely possessed by demonic spirits, for everytime he entered a room, anything not weighted down had a tendency to move about, or float in the air.  He was imprisoned in the Crypt beneath a church to be ether excorcised or burned when Stentorius happened across the village.  Stentorius had been in search of the Faerie effected version of Will O' Wisp, and the swamplands of the Celtic area were the most likely source, and evidence indicated that the area nearby was the most likely place to find it.  

Stentorius heard of the demonic-child that could 'move things' with poltergeist arms, and became immediately interested in this possible Apprentice, or source of Rego Vis.  It didn't take long for Stentorius to realize the potential of the boy, and depart the village with the boy in tow.  The uneducated child was too young to learn magic yet, but not too young to go untrained in required learning.  Stentorius had the child sent to a teacher who helped the covenant, and taught Latin as well as basic reading and writing, as well as on how to control his supernatural exhibitions through concentration.  

By the age of 12 Dylan was inducted into apprenticeship with Sentorius, and trained in the arts of magic.  The quiet boy proved a most apt student to Sentorius, able to do things that even the Rego Master was surprised at.  The boy was the perfect Rego apprentice, and once he'd learned a new trick with the Arts, especially Rego, seemed to master it to perfection.  

By the age 28 (1 year longer than most apprenticeships), Dylan passed the Ganntlet, and is now attempting to integrate himself in with the other Magi in the Covenant.[/sblock]

Goals[sblock]
Currently working on a spell to allow him to see through Fog, allowing his Fog spell to be a bit more useful (if he can see out and others can't see in).  However it seems that it's currently outside the realm of possibility until he learns more about Intelligo and Auram.[/sblock]

Companion in the works.... just trying to come up with a concept.


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## Yair (Nov 9, 2005)

*Setting Up an Ars Magica Wiki*

I'm setting up an Ars Magica wiki for spells. Nzld, I hope you don't mind me posting my spells with your corrections, or your own castle-razing spell? 
It is at http://arsmagica.pbwiki.com/, just a rough version for now.

I'll go over your characters this evening guys.


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## Sphynx (Nov 9, 2005)

And the Companion (so far), a Scout (Name ForthComing)

[sblock]

*Characteristics*[sblock]
Perception +5
Intelligence +0
Speed +1
Dexterity +1
Strength+1
Stamina +1
Communication +0
Presence +0
[/sblock]

*Virtues/Flaws*[sblock]
*Virtues*
Great Characteristic (x2, Perception)
Improved Characteristics
Inoffensive to Animals (Magical Air Flaw)
Keen Vision
Premonitions
Puissant Awareness
Second Sight
Sharp Ears
Wilderness Sense

*Flaws*
Feral Upbringing
Incomprehensible
Magical Air
Poor Student
Visions
Weakness, Wolves
Wolf Companion, Magical

[/sblock]

*Abilities*[sblock]
Animal Handling (Wolves): 1
Athletics (Running): 3
Awareness (Alert): 4
Brawl (Dodging): 4
German (Sign Language): 1
Hunt (Tracking): 3
Stealth (Sneaking): 4
Survival (Woodland): 3
Swim: 3
Premonitions (Self): 1
Second Sight (Invisible Things): 1
Wilderness Sense (Resources): 1
[/sblock]

*Personality*: Cunning: +2  Civilized: -3  Cautious: +1

BackGround:[sblock]Not alot known of his childhood, raised by wolves until he was 16, he never even saw humans until they wiped out his entire pack, all except his brother.  His brother remains his companion, a huge black wolf that seems to forever be by the boy's side when he's in the Covenant area.  He was brought here when the hunters brought their forages and pelts to sell.  He's learned the basics of the German language from the locals, but has only recently realized that not all humans are out to murder his brethren, and therefore began to trust the humans of the covenant.  Having been raised as part of a pack, he's been quick to adopt the human pack as his own, and has surprised people a few times by stepping out of the forests to point them away from dangers ahead.  With his companion, he's one of the, if not the very best scout the Covenant has ever had within its walls.  His senses surpassing even that of his brother wolf.  It is not surprising to see him with nose on the ground, following the trail of something that's passed by, though his manners have greatly changed/improved since the early days when he was brought to the covenant.[/sblock]

[/sblock]


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## Nzld (Nov 9, 2005)

Another quiet/still casting magus, huh? 

One more and it's officially a stereotype.


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## Sphynx (Nov 9, 2005)

No, you're mistaken.    1 is a Quiet/Still, the other is a Quiet/Subtle.


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## Nzld (Nov 9, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> No, you're mistaken.    1 is a Quiet/Still, the other is a Quiet/Subtle.



Yeah. I know. And with Method Caster and Weak Spontaneous to boot.


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## Sphynx (Nov 10, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> Yeah. I know. And with Method Caster and Weak Spontaneous to boot.




Method Caster is very popular, agreed.  Almost impossible to pass up that +3 option, especially when your 'method' is quiet and subtle.  It's not like you'll ever change your 'method'.  Weak Spont (or Chaotic Magic) are just thematic for someone who is dependant on Method.  You find that certain groups just merge better together.  So, from a logical point of view, you're right, we're definitely a "stereotype"d.


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## MummyKitty (Nov 10, 2005)

Are we min/maxing here?!   

To be honest I can't wait to cast a spell and see what happens, as I don't know the mechanics of this game all that well....


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## Sphynx (Nov 10, 2005)

Everyone min/maxxes to an extent.  I don't know anyone that first decides their ranking in Forms/Techniques before looking to see what spells they'd like.  Most people decide what kind of spells they'd want, and work to get them (that's true in any game actually).  If that means grabbing up a nice +3 bonus Virtue that fits perfectly in-theme with the character, so be it. 

 Personally, I start with a concept.  I always aim for a 'psionic' type character.  I love telekinesis, and want to be able to lift things with a thought without having to mumble out latin to do so since that makes it feel alot more like Magic than Psionics.  Originally I wasn't doing "still", but I wasn't sure that the Mastery version of Quiet would stack with the Virtue of Quiet Magic.  Although, by default, it seems it would I didn't want to take that assumption.  So I bought Quiet Magic twice.  I really wanted Mastered Spells because Botch Dice kinda suck.  "Still" was just the best fitting bonus of the offered list.  If something would have made Concentration or Finesse easier, I'd have taken that, because I think hand motions for doing telekinesis is very psionically in-theme.  But, so is not doing hand-motions.  

Sphynx


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## MummyKitty (Nov 10, 2005)

Hey I was just kidding, I don't have any problem with min-maxing.    Of course we all want our characters to be at the very least "not broken".  Although in my case, Yair min-maxed my character for me based on just a concept.  Um... at least I think so....?


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## Yair (Nov 10, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Hey I was just kidding, I don't have any problem with min-maxing.    Of course we all want our characters to be at the very least "not broken".  Although in my case, Yair min-maxed my character for me based on just a concept.  Um... at least I think so....?



To be honest, I'm not much of a min/maxer and tried to stay true to your input more than build an effective character. But I think he is fine - you've got one high-penetration attack spell, a fast-cast defense, and a selection of utility spells. You are a fast learner (especially at Rego books) and a good inventor, and your flaws don't hider you often except in spontanous casting (which goes with being a Mercurian). So I definitely don't think he is brokenly bad.

And I just realized I didn't put in your Sigil. I'll go change that.


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## MummyKitty (Nov 10, 2005)

Oh, I'm totally happy with my character, so don't worry about that.  I actually forgot that you made him a Mercurian, when I saw the description I thought, it would be cool if Titus had that and when I checked the sheet it was already so!   

How does the spellcasting fatigue work in ArM 5?  Is it similar to 4th edition? 

Glad my little speech pissed off the wolf!


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## Yair (Nov 11, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> Oh, I'm totally happy with my character, so don't worry about that.  I actually forgot that you made him a Mercurian, when I saw the description I thought, it would be cool if Titus had that and when I checked the sheet it was already so!







> How does the spellcasting fatigue work in ArM 5?  Is it similar to 4th edition?



Formulaics work the same, yes. There are some changes to Spontanous, be we need'nt go there now.

*Kajamba Lion & Sphynx*:
I'm sorry I've been dragging my feet on your characters, I've got a weekend at home now and I've taken them with me and will go over them.


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## Sphynx (Nov 11, 2005)

Little kitty upset me?  Hah, not a chance.  

(PS.  I'm a Sphynx, but couldn't find a decent Sphynx (or sphinx) image to use for my Avatar.    So, Wolf is only temporary since that's my pet.  )


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 11, 2005)

No beef.


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## Nzld (Nov 11, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Little kitty upset me?  Hah, not a chance.
> 
> (PS.  I'm a Sphynx, but couldn't find a decent Sphynx (or sphinx) image to use for my Avatar.    So, Wolf is only temporary since that's my pet.  )




I think he was referring to Titus's IC speech to the werewolf.


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## Sphynx (Nov 11, 2005)

Errrrr..... I uhh..... I uh knew that.....   *blush*


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## Nzld (Nov 11, 2005)

*Wielding the Invisible Sling & Rego spells in general*

MummyKitty,

Your *Wielding the Invisible Sling* spell cannot miss. There is no actual attack roll. If Titus succeeds in casting the spell, the Rego aspect takes care of the rest, insuring a hit. This is one of the changes that 5th Ed. has over 4th Ed., "missile" spells no longer have to be aimed with a Finesse roll.


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## Nzld (Nov 11, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Character thus far....  Extremely Rego....




FYI, Certamen is no longer a skill in 5th Edition. You should probably take a few points in Penetration, though. Finesse and Penetration are the two skills used in Certamen, along with Parma, of course.


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## Nzld (Nov 11, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Flight of the Magus ReCo: 20
> Base: 15 +1 Conc
> Mastery: 1 (Still)
> This is a method of movement through the air that is roughly the same speed as a fast running man. It effects only the Magus. If the concentration is broken before the spell is ended, the spell will drop the Magus to the ground at the speed of a walking man.



I am curious as to how you rationalize the "safety net" you have built into this spell. By definition, the magic of a spell with Duration of Concentration lasts only as long as concentration is maintained. How then can it extend beyond that, when the concentration is "broken", to deliver the magus safely to the ground? Is there a precedent for this established in another spell?


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## MummyKitty (Nov 11, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> MummyKitty,
> 
> Your *Wielding the Invisible Sling* spell cannot miss. There is no actual attack roll. If Titus succeeds in casting the spell, the Rego aspect takes care of the rest, insuring a hit. This is one of the changes that 5th Ed. has over 4th Ed., "missile" spells no longer have to be aimed with a Finesse roll.



 Then I'll fire away if Volkmar doesn't cleave the wolf in two with his mighty blow!


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## Sphynx (Nov 12, 2005)

Thanks for the heads up on the Carteman.  I've changed it to Penetration.

As for the spell.  I first create the effect I want, then find the duration/range/etc that is closest to that result.  The description is written first, so if it doesn't seem fair, I'd just remove it from the desription, but since 'diam' (which is kinda what that safety net is) is equal to Concentration, I saw no problem with it.


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## Nzld (Nov 12, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> As for the spell.  I first create the effect I want, then find the duration/range/etc that is closest to that result.  The description is written first, so if it doesn't seem fair, I'd just remove it from the desription, but since 'diam' (which is kinda what that safety net is) is equal to Concentration, I saw no problem with it.




I think this would require an additional +1 Magnitude to account for the non-standard Duration, else all Concentration spells could be made with such safety nets with no additional increase in difficulty. The reason Concentration and Diameter are the same level is because of the tradeoff... you can take Concentration and have a spell that lasts as long as you like (or, more specifically, can concentrate for), or you can take Diameter and have a spell that lasts two minutes without need for concentration... but you can't take the best of both worlds for the same price.


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## Sphynx (Nov 12, 2005)

I have no problems with changing it if Yair agrees.


----------



## Yair (Nov 13, 2005)

*Sphynx & Kajamba Lion: Characters*

The following is mainly about background stuff; I’ve not gone over the math involved yet.

You have the misfortune of choosing a House I know something about, having read the relevant parts of True Lineages. I don’t consider TL cannon, in that I’m willing to deviate from it if it suits your vision of what you want to play. Above all I want us all to have fun. But I thought perhaps I’d write on what TL has to offer, as I for one enjoy enriching the game with supplemental offerings. Take of this what you will, and we will discard the rest.

The TL description of the House is extensive, and I can’t go into that much detail. Before going on on specific notes regarding your characters, though, I’d like to give you a brief idea on (my impression of) the House.
Houses Tremere can be best described as a military reserves regiment, with the magi serving as its officers. During peacetime, they maintain ties and occasionally help each other, but also periodically train and take care of logistical needs, always working to increase their wartime readiness. In war, they muster their forces, coordinate combined assaults, and take care of various logistical needs to enable them. Each is expected to be resourceful, stalwart, and loyal - a good military officer. They are associated with magical wolves, ghost armies, and life-sucking spirits, but also with mundane allies, and complex magical war weapons, magical strategies, and tactics. 

The House indoctrinates all Tremere magi. You’ve spent several years, probably in early apprenticeship and possibly even before it, learning at Transylvania - probably even at Coeris (the Domus Magna of the House).

*Octavian*[sblock]







> Journeyman of House Tremere, filius to Daria la Gris, Apple Gild



That’s fine; remember that you were partly trained in Transylvania, though.



> Latent Magical Ability



Fine, but if you have any ideas – feel free to share.


> Weak Magic Resistance, Compulsion (gambling)



Both these flaws will make the magus suboptimal in the battlefield or politics, so would be seen as a source of embarrassment. The first especially should be carefully hidden. 


> Hermetic Prestige



I have not considered Daria to be so powerful as to require this virtue, but she is powerful both politically and magically so I can certainly fit it in if you want.



> Abilities: Artes Liberales 1 (arithmetic), Charm 2 (magi), Code of Hermes 1 (certamen law), Etiquette 2 (Hermetic), Finesse 2 (Terram), Folk Ken 3 (magi), Guile 2 (lying to underlings), Intrigue 2 (Hermetic politics), Latin 4 (Hermetic terms), Magic Theory 3 (Creo), German 5 (giving orders), Order of Hermes Lore 2 (Tremere), Parma Magica 1 (Mentem), Penetration 3 (Ignem)



This is a good selection of Abilities for a Tremere, except that it lacks physical skills Tremere consider required. Tremere are expected to be able to fend for themselves on a Wizard’s March or long treks and to be able to defend themselves physically with some level of competence. Survival, Swim, Athletics (hiking), Brawl, and of course Profession: Soldier are some skills you might wish to consider.



> Arts: Cr 5, In 5, Mu 5, Pe 5, Re 5, An 0, Aq 3, Au 6, Co 0, He 0, Ig 6, Im 0, Me 1, Te 6, Vi 0



Tremere are expected to have reasonable scores in 4 Arts, two Techniques and two Forms, as this is vital for Certamen. For a starting magus, a score of 5 is acceptable in this regard so this selection is sufficient though a little broader than the typical Tremere. Note that the archetypical Tremere Arts are Rego and Mentem.



> Spells Known:
> Circling Winds of Protection (CrAu 20) +13
> Rain of Stones (MuAu(Te) 20) +13
> Pilum of Fire (CrIg 20) +13
> ...



These are a bit more direct than a typical Tremere’s. They generally prefer to work with spells that summon, control, or augment various ghosts, spirits, magical animals, or other allies, or subtly acquire or subvert information.



> Background: Coming soon.
> My basic thinking is that perhaps he has been sent to Fengheld and Teneo at the request of Daria, in order to secure more political sway for the Apple Gild, and, if Sphynx goes with being the filius of Stentorius, in order to balance out the influence of Stentorius.



That’s perfectly acceptable. Tremere have a penchant for acting in teams, and value the number two, so suggesting the two new apprentices work together will make perfect sense.

Consider your role in war. Here is my suggestion:
Given your interest in Terram, and aptitude with all elemental Arts, it may have been decided that you will be an Architect, a combat engineer (erecting bridges, toppling or raising walls, and otherwise changing the terrain of battle). The role easily extends itself to control of the other four elements (winds and water particularly), so your aptitude for it is keen.
Your assignment in Teneo may have been motivated by a desire to deepen your connections with a fellow non-House architect - Titus.[/sblock]

*Erich Waldst*[sblock] 


> Brave (flexible ethics/morals) –3



I don’t really understand this combination, but as long as you do that’s fine.



> Background: Born poor in the southwestern part of Germany, Erich grew up a bit of a rogue and a scoundrel, running away at a young age. He survived on whatever he could steal, eventually falling in with some notorious thieves and scoundrels that terrorized peasants, pilgrims, and merchants travelling through the Alsace-Lorraine. Years of success eventually caught up with him, as he ended up robbing a few nobles by accident and only barely escaping them as he fled to Pomerania. The road eventually led to Fengheld, where he's subsided on odd jobs and occasional physical labor. He longs for a reasonably safe place where he could put some of his skills to work in a semi-honest fashion. figuring that his theoretical patron may be willing to stand in between the past and him.



Fenghled is not in Pomerania, being quite some distance to the sough-west (you can check out the Rhine map at the Guardians of the Forest webpage on Atlas’ site), but otherwise everything’s fine.[/sblock]

*Dylan* [sblock]


> Magical Animal Companion (Talking Hawk)



Consider an animal that is used by Tremere in-cannon; there are whole doctrines on how to use specific animals and breeding lines going back centuries. This isn’t essential, you can use a Talking Hawk (whatever we decide it will be) if you’d like.
TL suggests three possibilities for birds. A Might 10 Shadow Owl that conceal itself and fly through solid matter, that is used primarily to spy and pick up small objects (like arcane connections); a Might 10 Fire Hawk that can ignite flammable materials by touch and is used as a saboteur; and an unstatted Griffin Vulture, although I get the impression these are used primarily in flocks.


> Soft Hearted



This is a particularly problematic flaw for a Tremere, as it effectively disallows any soldiery conduct and military zeal. A canonic Tremere really shouldn’t have it.


> Weak Magic, Warped Magic (Gusts of Wind)



Both will make the magus suboptimal on the field of battle, so are embarrassing. They should be kept hidden, particularly Warped Magic as it hints of lack of self-control.



> Distracted +1, Friendly +2, Wanderer +2



Those are strange personality traits for a military officer.



> Athletics (Grace): 2
> Artes Liberales (Logic): 2
> Awareness (Alertness): 2
> Brawl (Dodging): 2
> ...



His lack of political skills will be seen as a shortcoming, hindering his ability to accrue allies for the House and rendering him vulnerable to political and mental manipulation. I think it unlikely Stentorious will send him to the world without at least a grounding in Intrigue.



> Arts
> Spoiler:
> Techniques
> Creo: 1
> ...



He is dangerously overspecialized in his Techniques, making him vulnerable in Certamen. A second technique of 4 at least is highly desirable.


> Flight of the Magus ReCo: 20
> Base: 15 +1 Conc
> Mastery: 1 (Still)
> This is a method of movement through the air that is roughly the same speed as a fast running man. It effects only the Magus. If the concentration is broken before the spell is ended, the spell will drop the Magus to the ground at the speed of a walking man.



Nzld is wise in the ways of magic. Let us heed his wisdom - at least a +1 magnitude is required.


> Flock of Birds ReCo: 20
> Base: 4 +1 Conc +1Touch +2 Group
> Mastery: 1 (Still)
> This spell works like Rise of the Feathery Body, but effects all persons touching the Magus at the time of casting. As long as they continue to touch the Magus (or anything he is carrying, holding or wearing), they continue to move with the Magus, but if they release the Magus, they plummet to the ground and take normal damage for falling such a distance.



The spell should affect up to 10 people, unless a +# size modifier is applied.


> Movement of the Mind ReTe(*): 20
> Base: 2 +3 Sight +1 Conc +2 Group
> Mastery: 1 (Still)
> This spell works like Unseen Arm, except extended range (since his magic is Silent), and effects multiple objects at once.



Moving multiple items in complex coordination would require a Finesse roll.



> Born in the Celtic lands near a rather swamp-like area, Dylan was the source of demonic rumours. At the age of 8, the village had decided that he was definitely possessed by demonic spirits, for everytime he entered a room, anything not weighted down had a tendency to move about, or float in the air. He was imprisoned in the Crypt beneath a church to be ether excorcised or burned when Stentorius happened across the village. Stentorius had been in search of the Faerie effected version of Will O' Wisp, and the swamplands of the Celtic area were the most likely source, and evidence indicated that the area nearby was the most likely place to find it.
> 
> Stentorius heard of the demonic-child that could 'move things' with poltergeist arms, and became immediately interested in this possible Apprentice, or source of Rego Vis. It didn't take long for Stentorius to realize the potential of the boy, and depart the village with the boy in tow. The uneducated child was too young to learn magic yet, but not too young to go untrained in required learning. Stentorius had the child sent to a teacher who helped the covenant, and taught Latin as well as basic reading and writing, as well as on how to control his supernatural exhibitions through concentration.
> 
> ...



The character should have spent some time in Transylvania, probably his childhood prior to, and perhaps the first few years of, his apprenticeship. It is entirely possible he was discovered by another Tremere magus, taken to Coeris, and handpicked by Stentorius to be his apprentice when he grows up.

Consider his role in war. My suggestion:
Scout. He is trained to move through hostile territory, collect information, and report. The House will try to train him in evasive, protective, communication, and travel magic, as well as in intelligence gathering. 
He has been sent to Pomerania as a place to hone his scouting skills and collect information on this fairly mysterious area. The House is particularly interested in vis sources, wartime allies, other exploitable resources, and the volatile local politics. He is also expected to better bond and train with Octavian, to make them a better team in war-time.[/sblock]

*Name ForthComing*[sblock] 


> Premonitions
> Second Sight
> Wilderness Sense



Consider that those are a lot of Abilities you would want to be high. Just saying, it won’t be easy keeping them all high so you might want to set up priorities.


> Wolf Companion, Magical



We will need to work on that. TL suggests a Might 10  “common white wolf” in the service of House Tremere, if you’re interested.


> Not alot known of his childhood, raised by wolves until he was 16, he never even saw humans until they wiped out his entire pack, all except his brother. His brother remains his companion, a huge black wolf that seems to forever be by the boy's side when he's in the Covenant area. He was brought here when the hunters brought their forages and pelts to sell. He's learned the basics of the German language from the locals, but has only recently realized that not all humans are out to murder his brethren, and therefore began to trust the humans of the covenant. Having been raised as part of a pack, he's been quick to adopt the human pack as his own, and has surprised people a few times by stepping out of the forests to point them away from dangers ahead. With his companion, he's one of the, if not the very best scout the Covenant has ever had within its walls. His senses surpassing even that of his brother wolf. It is not surprising to see him with nose on the ground, following the trail of something that's passed by, though his manners have greatly changed/improved since the early days when he was brought to the covenant.



Yet another wolf boy. I’m sensing a shift in the Saga’s direction.
You may wish to consider House Tremere as your saviors, perhaps you have come from Transylvania. Tremere are very interested in wolves and especially feral children, and are famous enough in Transylvania for the hunters to come to them. It also works well with having two Tremere magi in the covenant, as you could be House Tremere “property”. In this case it would probably be wise to have this character attached to Octavius for some reason.

I see a little problem in that your magus and companion characters seem to both be stealthy sneaky scouty types, especially if you accept my Scout proposal for your magus.[/sblock]

As Tremere, you each also learned a Certamen style. I’ll think which is appropriate for each master, and explain this style to you.
There are also a few new spells and V&F; nothing essential.
As young Tremere magi, you are allowed one item from the following list at any one time:

A *loan* of a moderate sum of silver, or 4 pawns of vis, or a minor book on an Art, or a minor magic item
The assistance of a highly-skilled but nonmagical person, such as a blacksmith, poisoner, or courtesan
The use of a debt owed to the House by a minor noble or priest
passage on ships, or a team of horses
Decide what, if anything, you want and we’ll introduce it in-character (in the present or past). This comes at a cost – your House duties; I’ll detail your next House-appointed task in due time. It shouldn’t hinder your development as a magus, although it may steer you in the House’s desired direction.

It’s very very late now. I’ll write more tomorrow.


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## MummyKitty (Nov 13, 2005)

Wow, from the sound of things we have quite a menagerie going.   At first I was thinking my companion character, Hakon, was "too normal" but now I think it might be good to have a few "pure strain humans" in the convenant.   

All sounds good and I can't wait to meet the new members of Teneo.

PS: That's a Gamma World reference...


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 13, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> The TL description of the House is extensive, and I can’t go into that much detail. Before going on on specific notes regarding your characters, though, I’d like to give you a brief idea on (my impression of) the House.



Is TL worth buying as a player?  I believe Atlas is selling it as a PDF at RPGNow.  As for the rest of the background stuff, that all sounds fine, and as I cobble together my background tonight and tomorrow, I'll keep it in mind.[sblock]







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> That’s fine; remember that you were partly trained in Transylvania, though.



No beef.  I'm fine with that.







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> Fine, but if you have any ideas – feel free to share.



Unfortunately, I haven't a clue what an appropriate ability would be; the description on 44 is woefully inadequate, and the virtue came with the template.  Let me think on it.







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> Both these flaws will make the magus suboptimal in the battlefield or politics, so would be seen as a source of embarrassment. The first especially should be carefully hidden.



The weak magic resistance again came from the template.  I'd be happy to swap either of them out, and that might be best, judging by how you've described Tremere.  As a matter of fact, if he's to be an architect/engineer, compulsion (perfection) might be a better match — Octavian's overly concerned with making sure his siegeworks and what not work exactly as they ought to work.  As far as a condition for the weak magic resistance, I think I'd say that if he can't see his foe, Octavian has a hard time focusing on his magic resistance (it's the sample in the book, but it's solid enough for me).







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> I have not considered Daria to be so powerful as to require this virtue, but she is powerful both politically and magically so I can certainly fit it in if you want.



That would be cool if you could.







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> This is a good selection of Abilities for a Tremere, except that it lacks physical skills Tremere consider required. Tremere are expected to be able to fend for themselves on a Wizard’s March or long treks and to be able to defend themselves physically with some level of competence. Survival, Swim, Athletics (hiking), Brawl, and of course Profession: Soldier are some skills you might wish to consider.



Let's drop Guile 2 for Engineer (military fortifications and siegeworks) 2.  Although I see him as a politician, I don't see him as being too dishonest, so that should work out fairly well.







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> Given your interest in Terram, and aptitude with all elemental Arts, it may have been decided that you will be an Architect, a combat engineer (erecting bridges, toppling or raising walls, and otherwise changing the terrain of battle). The role easily extends itself to control of the other four elements (winds and water particularly), so your aptitude for it is keen.
> Your assignment in Teneo may have been motivated by a desire to deepen your connections with a fellow non-House architect - Titus.



I really like this idea, and it'll give me a chance to fine tune a personality for him.  Thanks, Yair.[/sblock]As for Erich...[sblock]







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> I don’t really understand this combination, but as long as you do that’s fine.



I think it might work better as being listed as Strong (flexible morals/ethics) -3, as that seems to more aim at willpower and consistency, when Erich is more interested in expediency and convenience.







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> Fenghled is not in Pomerania, being quite some distance to the sough-west (you can check out the Rhine map at the Guardians of the Forest webpage on Atlas’ site), but otherwise everything’s fine.



Cool, I had no idea there was a map.  I'll look at that now.[/sblock]







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> As Tremere, you each also learned a Certamen style. I’ll think which is appropriate for each master, and explain this style to you.
> There are also a few new spells and V&F; nothing essential.
> As young Tremere magi, you are allowed one item from the following list at any one time...



I think, running with the idea of architecture and engineering, Octavian would love to have a skilled laborer with him (maybe some form of civil engineer, whatever that might be in a medieval milieu.

I think this might be the most complex post I've made, as far as layered quotes and spoiler blocks.  Hopefully it'll end up being clean...

Nick


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## Yair (Nov 13, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Is TL worth buying as a player?  I believe Atlas is selling it as a PDF at RPGNow.



I'm not sure. If we were a tabletop group I'd certainly recommend just browing my book, as it is...
TL has some extensive fluff regarding the House, but I'm not sure how much of it we can put into the game (having 2/5 Temere players helps). I'm not even sure how interestng you would find it. It will give you sample ghosts/animals/spirits you can work with, a few additional spells, and more information on the House, its history, and traditions.
Beyond that, the Bonisagus section contains rules for making Discoveries that break/bend existing rules, the Guernicus section has some solid information on Hermetic law and some nasty, quirky, rituals and spells, and the Mercere section has some options for Mercurian magic (which I'm not certain I like). I haven't read the whole thing yet, this is what I've got so far.
I'm generally always supportive of peple buying ArM products as it helps the line, but to be honest - I don't know if that's worth 15$+printing to you.

And now I'll move to more specific concerns...
[sblock]







> Unfortunately, I haven't a clue what an appropriate ability would be; the description on 44 is woefully inadequate, and the virtue came with the template. Let me think on it.



There is no need to decide now, if you want you can leave it open.







> The weak magic resistance again came from the template.  I'd be happy to swap either of them out, and that might be best, judging by how you've described Tremere.  As a matter of fact, if he's to be an architect/engineer, compulsion (perfection) might be a better match — Octavian's overly concerned with making sure his siegeworks and what not work exactly as they ought to work.  As far as a condition for the weak magic resistance, I think I'd say that if he can't see his foe, Octavian has a hard time focusing on his magic resistance (it's the sample in the book, but it's solid enough for me).



Cool.







> Let's drop Guile 2 for Engineer (military fortifications and siegeworks) 2.  Although I see him as a politician, I don't see him as being too dishonest, so that should work out fairly well.



That's fine, but isn't really a physical skill...  


> I really like this idea, and it'll give me a chance to fine tune a personality for him.  Thanks, Yair.






> I think it might work better as being listed as Strong (flexible morals/ethics) -3, as that seems to more aim at willpower and consistency, when Erich is more interested in expediency and convenience.



Alright.







> I think, running with the idea of architecture and engineering, Octavian would love to have a skilled laborer with him (maybe some form of civil engineer, whatever that might be in a medieval milieu.



I'm perfectly willing to grant you one, but I'm not sure what you see him doing as fun in-game.


> I think this might be the most complex post I've made, as far as layered quotes and spoiler blocks.  Hopefully it'll end up being clean...



Yeah, these things are a nightmare. 
Yair[/sblock]


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## Sphynx (Nov 13, 2005)

Dylan
[sblock]Hmmm, I have to admit, not having this TL book, I had -no- idea that Tremere were military minded at all.  The core book only says they thrive on strategy.  If Tremere in the game are intended to be military, than rather than change the whole character, I think I'll need to change the House, as I have no intentions of playing a military type character at all.

As for the Flight of the Magus, 'fast speed' (the Base of the spell) is about 40 MPH (if using the old 4th Ed is the basis where Flight there was 40 MPH).  If we reduce the base by 1 magnitude (thus allowing us to not change the level of the spell), that should fit the speed written in the spell itself (human running speed), thereby making the cost appropriate.

Going through your list of 'possibles', the only Magus who seems a possible paren for the character is Hassan (unless you see something I'm missing).  Even he seems a bit, wrong for the character.

I was thinking that maybe a Merinita might be a good option for the character, though we'd have to develop the background some since there are none in the options at all.  I could then replace the Hermetic Prestige with Faerie Blood, and the Affinity for Carteman with Faerie Magic of course.

Anyways, sounds like we have alot of work to do on this character...  [/sblock]

WolfBoy
[sblock]I wasn't aware there was some sort of WolfBoy in the game already, I have no problem with completely re-writing this character at all.  

If you would like that I keep him, any adaptions you feel are appropriate, I'm completely ok with, even to the point of a complete re-write.  All I wanted really was a super-super-perceptive character (Perception 5), and I included the various 'Supernatural' Abilities that were Perception oriented.  So, even though they're all a 1, I get a total of +6 on the rolls already.

The White Wolf/House Tremere stuff all sounds good to me if you like the character.  Again, I don't mind re-writing him at all.[/sblock]


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## Nzld (Nov 13, 2005)

<bad post>


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## Nzld (Nov 13, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> As for the Flight of the Magus, 'fast speed' (the Base of the spell) is about 40 MPH (if using the old 4th Ed is the basis where Flight there was 40 MPH).  If we reduce the base by 1 magnitude (thus allowing us to not change the level of the spell), that should fit the speed written in the spell itself (human running speed), thereby making the cost appropriate.



Well, you can't draw upon 4th Ed. guidelines for creating 5th Ed. spells because there are significant changes in the guidelines between the two editions. However, in 5th Ed., under the Rego Corpus guidelines, base 15 is required to move a person *quickly* in any direction... whereas base 5 is required to move a person *slowly* in any direction. This leaves ambiguity as to what slow and quick means, and also leaves a gap at base 10.

My opinion is that the intent of the guidelines is that effective flight is intended to require base 15, whereas lesser flight like levitation, etc. is meant to require base 5. I also feel that a running man, whether on the ground or in the air, is moving "quickly", and meets the requirement for base 15.

Yair can certainly rule that base 15 grants "super flight" at 40 MPH (although I am not sure where you are getting this guideline in 4th Ed., unless it is in the Grimoire... I didn't find it in the core rules), and allow you to take "lesser flight" at base 10, but he needs to consider the future impact this may have down the road, as most flight spells will now only be level 15, instead of level 20.


----------



## Sphynx (Nov 13, 2005)

My only question becomes, (since I can't afford to raise the Magnitude of the spell), what speed I'd get at a Base 10.  My Magic Theory, etc isn't high enough (and would require a complete character re-struct) to start at Base 15, and Base 4 is too slow I think.  Doesn't have to be 'sprinting' speed, just running speed. 

Sphynx


----------



## Nzld (Nov 13, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> My only question becomes, (since I can't afford to raise the Magnitude of the spell), what speed I'd get at a Base 10.  My Magic Theory, etc isn't high enough (and would require a complete character re-struct) to start at Base 15, and Base 4 is too slow I think.  Doesn't have to be 'sprinting' speed, just running speed.
> 
> Sphynx



The problem is there isn't necessarily a middle ground... base 5 is slow, base 15 is quick... that doesn't mean that base 10 grants a middle ground. The problem you are having is that you want to incorporate a non-standard Duration and are seeking to make the guidelines fit that need, rather than make the spell fit the guidelines. W ithout that non-standard Duration, level 20 is the appropriate level for a flight spell.

My suggestion would be to drop the non-standard Duration and then invent a new version of the spell at a later time to incorporate it, if it is still desired.


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## Nzld (Nov 13, 2005)

MummyKitty,

Are you planning to post to the Charter thread anytime soon?


----------



## Sphynx (Nov 13, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> The problem is there isn't necessarily a middle ground... base 5 is slow, base 15 is quick... that doesn't mean that base 10 grants a middle ground.




I disagree, the book offers 'Guidelines', not complete limitations.  If 4 is slow (and it is 4, not 5), and 15 is quick, then both 5 and 10 should be workable for something in-between.  Just because the 'Guidelines' are missing speeds for those Bases, doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.  Because they are only Guidelines, the spell list can include such spells as "Gift of the Frog Legs" with a base of 10, despite there not being anything in the Guidelines to give allowances for it.

However, if Yair would like that I limit the character to the Guidelines, I will of course remove the unique adendum to the spell without hesitation.  I just find it hard to believe that anyone would argue thatt here's no middle ground in guidelines such as this.

Sphynx


----------



## Nzld (Nov 13, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> I just find it hard to believe that anyone would argue thatt here's no middle ground in guidelines such as this.



I didn't say that there is no middle ground, I said that there isn't necessarily a middle ground. The guidelines provided - though only guidelines - do represent the intended minimum levels required for an effect, based on how the spells in the book are created. The level of effect necessary to move quickly in any direction is base 15. You are introducing an arbitrary argument by saying you aren't moving quickly, but that you aren't moving slowly, either. In 5th Edition, it doesn't say base 15 to move at 40 MPH and base 10 to move less at a lesser speed... it says base 15 to move quickly, period.

When you initially designed the spell you obviously felt that base 15 was the appropriate guideline... you only seek a lesser one now in order to keep the non-standard Duration without having to raise the spell level.


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## Sphynx (Nov 13, 2005)

Of course I only seek a lesser one now in order to keep the non-standard Duration without having to raise the spell level.  

I consider it more important (from a thematic point of view) that the spell work with the unique duration, than that the spell goes super-fast.  However I also consider it more important that the speed be faster than 'rising smoke', than that I have the unique duration.  I'm aiming for compromise here.

If Yair dictates that 'moves quickly' is defined as 'running speed', then there is no room for compromise, hence my previous question of how fast a base 15 would be, and then, how fast a base 10 would be.

I don't object to losing the unique duration, but I don't want to pass up the unique duration option if Yair agrees with me that 'moves quickly' would be closer to the speed a bird flies, and that a base of 10 would fit what I desired in my spell to begin with.

Personally I feel that 'Wield the Invisible Sling' is what is intended by the 'moves quickly', meaning about 40 MPH.  If that is the case, then it's perfectly logical that a 'running speed' would fit perfectly at a Base of 10, which would not be all that different from the speed of a 'jump' that would be caused by "Gift of the Frog's Legs", except with a Duration of Concentration instead of Momentary.  As a matter of fact, that's almost exactly what I seem to want, "Gift of the Frog's Legs" with a unique duration, and reduced target.  

Sphynx


----------



## Nzld (Nov 13, 2005)

Since you are bringing up specific spells to cite I'll have to wait till later to further respond. I do not have my book at work with me.


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## Nzld (Nov 14, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> If 4 is slow (and it is 4, not 5), and 15 is quick, then both 5 and 10 should be workable for something in-between.



Actually, that is incorrect. It is 5.

Level 3 states "Move a target slowly in one direction, as long as the surface can support its weight."

Level 4 states "Move a target slowly in any direction you please" and also "Move a target straight up, or in one direction over surfaces that cannot support it."

Level 5 then states "Move a target slowly in any direction you please, even if the target is unsupported."

The level 4 "move slowly in any direction" obviously builds upon the Level 3 parameter, in that the surface must be able to support the weight. Level 4 only allows unidirectional movement over non-supporting surfaces. It is not until level 5 that you can move freely (albeit slowly) over non-supporting surfaces. Since we are talking about flight, air, I think, qualifies as non-supporting.



			
				Sphynx said:
			
		

> Personally I feel that 'Wield the Invisible Sling' is what is intended by the 'moves quickly', meaning about 40 MPH. If that is the case, then it's perfectly logical that a 'running speed' would fit perfectly at a Base of 10, which would not be all that different from the speed of a 'jump' that would be caused by "Gift of the Frog's Legs", except with a Duration of Concentration instead of Momentary. As a matter of fact, that's almost exactly what I seem to want, "Gift of the Frog's Legs" with a unique duration, and reduced target.



I still don't know where you are getting the 40 MPH from, but I don't think you can compare "Wielding the Invisible Sling" to your flight spell and expect to justify base levels. The "sling" spell only moves an amount of material that could already be thrown by a person... it is not moving a person-size bulk. 

As for "Gift of the Frog's Legs", how is that what you want? With an extended Duration, you would be able to make multiple jumps, not fly. This spell seems to support my position more than yours. That spell is Base 10 and only allows jumping in one direction (not flight). I don't see how you can justify a flight spell at the same base level.


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## MummyKitty (Nov 14, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> MummyKitty,
> 
> Are you planning to post to the Charter thread anytime soon?



 I've gotten a little sidetracked... should we work this out with the new players on board?  Or will they be considered to join after we have this in place?


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## Sphynx (Nov 14, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> As for "Gift of the Frog's Legs", how is that what you want? With an extended Duration, you would be able to make multiple jumps, not fly. This spell seems to support my position more than yours. That spell is Base 10 and only allows jumping in one direction (not flight). I don't see how you can justify a flight spell at the same base level.




"Gift of the Frog Legs" is Flight with a duration of 'Momentary', and you can only go roughly 1-direction in a 'Moment'.  The additional descriptions are purely for theme.  ReCo moves the body, doesn't alter your legs to that of a Frog.  Changing it from Momentary to Concentration doesn't give multiple jumps, it increases the duration you're mobile (Rego).

How it helps in the discussion:

Spell: Move target about 20 paces in 1 turn (Base 10, or 4 times the distance you could Teleport at the same Base, seems fair)

Adds an Additional ability of allowing up to a 10 second delay before you are required to begin your move.  Additional Cost: +0 Magnitude

Adds an additional Duration _After_ the Momentary, so that you can land without harm (assuming you make a Dexterity+Encumberance roll of +0) long after the Momentary has passed.  Additional Cost: +0 Magnitude

So, basically, turning this spell into Concentration Duration, one should be able to move at least 20 feet per turn, and after the spell has ended, be able to land without harm (assuming you make a Dexterity+Encumberance roll of +0).

Altering the 'Touch' to 'Personal', and changing 'Momentary' to 'Concentration', and we have almost exactly what I want, except I'm paying +1 Magnitude higher (which should cover any odd-ball mechanics to insure the spell works as desired)

Sphynx


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## Nzld (Nov 14, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> "Gift of the Frog Legs" is Flight with a duration of 'Momentary', and you can only go roughly 1-direction in a 'Moment'.  The additional descriptions are purely for theme.  ReCo moves the body, doesn't alter your legs to that of a Frog.  Changing it from Momentary to Concentration doesn't give multiple jumps, it increases the duration you're mobile (Rego).
> 
> How it helps in the discussion:
> 
> ...



Wow!

Just, Wow!

Your logic is too asinine to argue with.


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## Sphynx (Nov 14, 2005)

Ok, I honestly have no idea why that deragatory comment came out.  Why do you call it 'asinine' (and I thought we were having a pretty darn civil discussion here, not some sort of heated debate or anything).

Seriously, at least tell me what logic is so off here, please.  Like I said before, if the boss man says 'No', I'm ok without the unique duration, but it seems to me that there is clear evidence to indicate that it's not only plausable, but that there's a spell that uses it at +0 Magnitude already.  

Sphynx


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## Yair (Nov 14, 2005)

Enough! 

I accept Base 5 for slow-moving (smoke-rising) flight and Base 15 for fast-moving (bird's speed) flight. Base 10 remains a lacuna, offering no improvement in regards to flight. This is how I see the rules, and in my saga these _are_ the rules. Even if I'm wrong.
Adding a soft landing requires a +1 magnitude modifier.
My decision is final.

Sphynx, if you insist on having both great speed and an easy landing you will have to learn the level 25 spell. Sorry.

Nzld, bad form. Very, very, very bad form.    
Read the forum rules. 
For the record, I was almost convinced by Sphynx's argument. It certainly isn't asinine. I decided to rule as I did because of other arguments, not because of any flaws in his.

Not a good feeling I'm having right now.


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## Sphynx (Nov 14, 2005)

I'm ok with losing the added duration (Though I -could- afford to get a level 25 spell, but only by min-maxxing to get an Affinity Rego, which seems wrong).  Any thoughts on the House changes Yair?


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## Yair (Nov 14, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> I'm ok with losing the added duration (Though I -could- afford to get a level 25 spell, but only by min-maxxing to get an Affinity Rego, which seems wrong).  Any thoughts on the House changes Yair?



None yet. I'll think about it this evening, before making more posts. Once I've chilled.


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## Nzld (Nov 14, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Seriously, at least tell me what logic is so off here, please.  Like I said before, if the boss man says 'No', I'm ok without the unique duration, but it seems to me that there is clear evidence to indicate that it's not only plausable, but that there's a spell that uses it at +0 Magnitude already.



That's just it.... *everything* you said about that spell is ridiculous to me. If you actually believe what you have said, then it just shows what completely different wavelengths we are on. In that light, I won't be able to - nor will I try to - convince you that you are wrong. You have already got it set in your head that your spell is justified. Let Yair make the call now. It's his game.


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## Sphynx (Nov 14, 2005)

I am happy with Yair's call.  Speed a Bird flies is alot faster than I had described my spell as, and a fair trade-off in my opinion.    Sorry we don't see eye-to-eye on the spell, Nzld, but no biggie either, definitely not something for either of us to be upset over.

Yair, I've editted my Character Sheet to show the official decision.  Including notes for damage (based on 4th edition version of the spell, so you might want to change that), and the option for learning it at +1 Magnitude to include the 'Safety Net'.


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## Nzld (Nov 14, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> For the record, I was almost convinced by Sphynx's argument. It certainly isn't asinine. I decided to rule as I did because of other arguments, not because of any flaws in his.



Which argument are you referring to... the one where Base 10 should allow for a degree of flight that is greater than slow, but less than quick, or the one about "Gift of the Frog Legs"?

And may we know what argument it was that swayed you?


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## Sphynx (Nov 14, 2005)

Could be wrong, but I think when he said 'Enough!' and that he was going to go chill, he was hinting that he didn't want it discussed anymore boss.


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## Nzld (Nov 14, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Could be wrong, but I think when he said 'Enough!' and that he was going to go chill, he was hinting that he didn't want it discussed anymore boss.



That's all well and good, and you and I need not discuss it any further, but if he is making a decision on a game mechanic, I for one want to know, for future reference, what factors contributed to that decision. Especially in light of his comment.


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## Yair (Nov 14, 2005)

Nzld said:
			
		

> That's all well and good, and you and I need not discuss it any further, but if he is making a decision on a game mechanic, I for one want to know, for future reference, what factors contributed to that decision. Especially in light of his comment.



Very well.

It was basically Sphynx's own words.







			
				Sphynx said:
			
		

> As for the spell. I first create the effect I want, then find the duration/range/etc that is closest to that result.



Contemplating the spell, it seems Mythically fitting to fly fast as a bird, and the description of Base 15 fit that perfectly. Flying at a "neither fast, nor slow" speed just to fit spell-level needs felt forced and unnecessary rules-wise. It is working the other way around - the proper way is to create the effect first, then interpert it into game mechanicsm (and invent new game mechanics only when the effect cannot fit, not when it does fit but is too high level).
Edit: To summarize, I felt the addition of an intermediate speed too precise and out-of-sync with the "feel" I think of when I think of Mythic magic, or this spell in particular.


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## Yair (Nov 14, 2005)

Dylan
[sblock]







> Hmmm, I have to admit, not having this TL book, I had -no- idea that Tremere were military minded at all.  The core book only says they thrive on strategy.  If Tremere in the game are intended to be military, than rather than change the whole character, I think I'll need to change the House, as I have no intentions of playing a military type character at all.



As I said, I have no intention of forcing this view of the House as canon. That said, if all you'd like to gain from it is a magus/house that thrives on strategy, and given MummyKitty's taking to the idea of a military Architect, perhaps it is best to simply change House.



> Going through your list of 'possibles', the only Magus who seems a possible paren for the character is Hassan (unless you see something I'm missing).  Even he seems a bit, wrong for the character.



Not a problem. There are plenty of other magi in Fenghled, the tribunal, and the Order.



> I was thinking that maybe a Merinita might be a good option for the character, though we'd have to develop the background some since there are none in the options at all.  I could then replace the Hermetic Prestige with Faerie Blood, and the Affinity for Carteman with Faerie Magic of course.



Yes... that could work... a lineage from air-faeries, I think. 
The Weak Spontanous Magic is a little weird in this constellation. Magical Animal Companion can be a Faerie. 
Irencillia, the Domus Magna of Merinitia, is in this Tribunal and you may have come from there (perhaps through some deal with Fengheld). It also fits the Magical Animal Companion virtue, as nearly all Irencillia magi have it. Some possible Merinitia magi from there:

Archmage Vinaria, former Prima, Elder Gild member, and a great mistress of Merinitia mysteries. She has just recently returned for what was considered her Final Twilight, so some reckoning of how you have just finished your apprenticship is in order. Like Daria, Hermetic Prestige is possible but not required.
Iacov, Elder Gild formal leader (though in practice his parens, Handri, leads it as well as the House). He is a Mentem specialist, and is keenly interesting in supporting pagan traditions though far too careful to do anything about it - that you know; he is very secretive.

There are other Merinitia in the tribunal and Order, of course, and you need not be from Fengheld or Irencillia. Some ideas:

Yselt, an ice-distorted faerie-blooded maga from a covenant on an icy mountaintop (or perhaps the far north), she is slowly transforming into the inhabitant's last ruler - the Ice Queen. Some suspect she has already slipped into Final Twilight and has become a creature of faerie.
Charlotte, a skinchanger (goose) that can fly into arcadia as easily as into the nearby valley. She should have contacts and dealings with faeries of the air.
Olga Deiaslavl, a Slavic maga (perhaps from Novgorod) that stresses faerie politics and is steeped in Merinitia mysteries. She has many Faerie allies, and is in turn their ally.
Basyl Karrimichi, a light-hearted prankster afflicted with disturbing Visions. Lately, he has been troubled with visions portaining the "coming of Hermes", or "the end of the Order", or something. You coming to Teneo is part of that.

Again, these lists are just ideas. Use or discard at your whim.



> Anyways, sounds like we have alot of work to do on this character...



That's Ok. [/sblock]

WolfBoy
[sblock]







> I wasn't aware there was some sort of WolfBoy in the game already, I have no problem with completely re-writing this character at all.
> 
> If you would like that I keep him, any adaptions you feel are appropriate, I'm completely ok with, even to the point of a complete re-write.  All I wanted really was a super-super-perceptive character (Perception 5), and I included the various 'Supernatural' Abilities that were Perception oriented.  So, even though they're all a 1, I get a total of +6 on the rolls already.
> 
> The White Wolf/House Tremere stuff all sounds good to me if you like the character.  Again, I don't mind re-writing him at all.



I don't mind having a small pack of wolves running around the place. If you feel he is stepping on someone toes, however, I'm open to further ideas.
Tying him to Tremere means tying him to another PC, and I like that.

You don't get a +6 on various Perception rolls. In virtually every case you'll roll just one Ability, the others just won't be applicable.[/sblock]


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## Nzld (Nov 15, 2005)

*Valeria is/isn't cold*

I had thought about this and never brought it up IC, but knowing her peculiarities and needs, I had thought that she would likely simply spont a minor CrIg spell or such with Sun Duration to keep herself warm. She would likely cast this at about the same time she does her Parma ritual. And, being used to being naked at times outdoors, she may be cold but able to tolerate it for short periods of time, just like a Russian skinny dipper.

I had also given thought about a InVi spont to locate the vis in the wolf corpse, but didn't have my books to anticipate the proper level. I knew she couldn't spont 'Gather the Essence of the Beast', which I had initially considered having her do when she approached the corpse.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 15, 2005)

A background for Octavian...[sblock]The son of some wealthy German merchants, Octavian was apprenticed to Daria la Gris in his mid- to late teens, having already shown marked mathematical aptitude.  She sent the lad to Coeris to learn advanced engineering theories involving the construction of siegeworks, fortifications, bridges, and so on.  Afterwards, she trained him in Rego and Terram, teaching him to use his magical abilities to enhance his mundane skills and aptitudes.  

Although he has proven to be a less than capable soldier (he is nowhere near as rugged as most Tremere magi, nor does he have any specific prowess in melee combat), he has proven to be a solid poltician and officer — and his engineering training makes him an excellent aide to a field commander.  A traditionalist, Octavian is also somewhat pragmatic, something Daria has tried to instill in him with mixed results; he belongs to the Apple Gild and has rather progressive views regarding Hermetic politics, for instance, but still believes in the rigid hierarchies and social codes of his time, regardless of how outdated they might be.  He has gone to Teneo at her command, to solidify the Gild presence there, but also to work with an apprentice of Stentorious that has been assigned there, too.

*Description*: Tall and somewhat handsome, Octavian has a decidedly academic air to him — he is clearly not a soldier.  He wears plain robes and clothing and frequently carries an ornate walking staff.[/sblock]Do you want me to write up the engineering grog?

Nick


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## Sphynx (Nov 15, 2005)

Dylan[sblock]







			
				Yair said:
			
		

> Yes... that could work... a lineage from air-faeries, I think.
> The Weak Spontanous Magic is a little weird in this constellation. Magical Animal Companion can be a Faerie



I don't mind changing it to a Faerie Companion, I chose the Talking Hawk because when I first pictured the character, I saw a Hawk on his shoulder.  I was going to go for something a bit more 'Falconry' at first, but opted against it since it seemed to detract from the character.   If I go with a Fairy Companion, I'd like for it to definitely be a flying/wind spirit about the size of the Hawk.




> Archmage Vinaria, former Prima, Elder Gild member



 A bit too complicated.




> Iacov, Elder Gild formal leader



 Possible, but sounds too political.




> Yselt, an ice-distorted faerie-blooded maga



 Definite not (Opposing Elements).  




> Charlotte, a skinchanger (goose)



Very appealing




> Olga Deiaslavl, a Slavic maga



Possible, but again, perhaps a bit too political




> Basyl Karrimichi, a light-hearted prankster



Interesting, but doesn't 'feel' right.





I think Charlotte is my preferred option at this time.  I'd like to have Faerie Blood, that being an 'air fairy', I'll change it on my sheet.  Can you tell me what bonuses that blood-type gives?[/sblock]


WolfBoy
[sblock]If you don't object, and no other Player objects, or feels he's stepping on their toes, I'll keep him as is.





> You don't get a +6 on various Perception rolls. In virtually every case you'll roll just one Ability, the others just won't be applicable.



I don't understand...  The +6 comes from a +5 Perception, and +1 Ability.  It sounds like you were thinking I wanted to add Abilities to a roll, no?  If that's not what you were thinking, then I don't understand what you're saying here, sorry....
[/sblock]

Addendum: I noticed that I -had- bought Affinity Rego, just hadn't used it (paid the full 55 for a Rego of 10).  If there are no objections, I removed that, and removed Method Caster (Was a bit _cheesy_ with a Silent/Subtle default Method) so I could upgrade my Fairy Blood to Strong Fairy Blood (though what Sylph blood does is still in need of answering.  ), to make me feel more Merinita and stronger affinity with Air Fairies.  If you don't object to it, I'll add in what my unique physical abberations are once I get some input on what Sylphs should look/be like.


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## MummyKitty (Nov 15, 2005)

There have been a few posts about the architect thing, just to clarify, Titus is not really interested in military architechture.  He's interested in colossal, grand, epic buildings (like the coliseum in Rome, Nero's giant statue of himself, etc).  Also buildings as works of art and sculpture.  Titus's ideas would probably be most impractical from a military standpoint.

That's not to say that Titus wouldn't be interested in conversing and sharing ideas about architechture with a military minded architect.

However, he is interested in military history and has great respect for the Roman army and its accomplishments, although he believes there were always magi behind the scenes of most of their triumphs.

He's a lover not a fighter.  Though the dead wolf might disagree...


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Nov 15, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> There have been a few posts about the architect thing, just to clarify, Titus is not really interested in military architechture.  He's interested in colossal, grand, epic buildings (like the coliseum in Rome, Nero's giant statue of himself, etc).  Also buildings as works of art and sculpture.  Titus's ideas would probably be most impractical from a military standpoint.




Statue ?!
I think Gorgamesh will pass this idea, If you will sculpture a statue of him, you can forget about visitors


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## MummyKitty (Nov 15, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Statue ?!
> I think Gorgamesh will pass this idea, If you will sculpture a statue of him, you can forget about visitors




Yeah, that could be our defense for the covenant-- a ring of statues of Gorgamesh!


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 15, 2005)

MummyKitty said:
			
		

> There have been a few posts about the architect thing, just to clarify, Titus is not really interested in military architechture.  He's interested in colossal, grand, epic buildings (like the coliseum in Rome, Nero's giant statue of himself, etc).  Also buildings as works of art and sculpture.  Titus's ideas would probably be most impractical from a military standpoint.
> 
> That's not to say that Titus wouldn't be interested in conversing and sharing ideas about architechture with a military minded architect.
> 
> ...




Hey, that's cool.  Octavian's interest is precisely the opposite — function over form, buildings as tools.  He'd be happy to talk architecture, but he is, when you get down to it, an engineer (and this should be interesting, as I am most certainly not an engineer, so I'll be googling and researching things pretty frequently).  All good fun.

Nick


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## Yair (Nov 15, 2005)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> A background for Octavian...[sblock]The son of some wealthy German merchants, Octavian was apprenticed to Daria la Gris in his mid- to late teens, having already shown marked mathematical aptitude.  She sent the lad to Coeris to learn advanced engineering theories involving the construction of siegeworks, fortifications, bridges, and so on.  Afterwards, she trained him in Rego and Terram, teaching him to use his magical abilities to enhance his mundane skills and aptitudes.
> 
> Although he has proven to be a less than capable soldier (he is nowhere near as rugged as most Tremere magi, nor does he have any specific prowess in melee combat), he has proven to be a solid poltician and officer — and his engineering training makes him an excellent aide to a field commander.  A traditionalist, Octavian is also somewhat pragmatic, something Daria has tried to instill in him with mixed results; he belongs to the Apple Gild and has rather progressive views regarding Hermetic politics, for instance, but still believes in the rigid hierarchies and social codes of his time, regardless of how outdated they might be.  He has gone to Teneo at her command, to solidify the Gild presence there, but also to work with an apprentice of Stentorious that has been assigned there, too.
> 
> ...



All is fine, exccept apparently Stentorius's apprentice will not be making a visit. Well, not THAT apprentice, anyways.
And yes, I'd be glad if you'll whip up the engineer.


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## Yair (Nov 15, 2005)

Dylan[sblock]







> I don't mind changing it to a Faerie Companion, I chose the Talking Hawk because when I first pictured the character, I saw a Hawk on his shoulder.  I was going to go for something a bit more 'Falconry' at first, but opted against it since it seemed to detract from the character.   If I go with a Fairy Companion, I'd like for it to definitely be a flying/wind spirit about the size of the Hawk.



*Nods* I don't have any bright ideas about what spirit to make it, I'll try to come up with a nice air spirit if you don't.


> I think Charlotte is my preferred option at this time.  I'd like to have Faerie Blood, that being an 'air fairy', I'll change it on my sheet.  Can you tell me what bonuses that blood-type gives?



Ah, yes. How about one of the following:
You are thin and quick. You gain a +1 bonus to Qui, but a -1 penalty on Soak.
You have a natural affinity for being airborne. You gain a +1 bonus to any Dexterity or Quickness based roll while ariborne.
I'm open for other suggestions.[/sblock]

WolfBoy
[sblock]







> I don't understand...  The +6 comes from a +5 Perception, and +1 Ability.  It sounds like you were thinking I wanted to add Abilities to a roll, no?  If that's not what you were thinking, then I don't understand what you're saying here, sorry....



That was indeed my thinking, and a foolish thought it was...[/sblock]

Addendum[sblock]







> I noticed that I -had- bought Affinity Rego, just hadn't used it (paid the full 55 for a Rego of 10).  If there are no objections, I removed that, and removed Method Caster (Was a bit _cheesy_ with a Silent/Subtle default Method) so I could upgrade my Fairy Blood to Strong Fairy Blood (though what Sylph blood does is still in need of answering.  ), to make me feel more Merinita and stronger affinity with Air Fairies.  If you don't object to it, I'll add in what my unique physical abberations are once I get some input on what Sylphs should look/be like.



Sounds great, no objections.[/sblock]


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 16, 2005)

I'll write up the engineer tomorrow definitely, but maybe tonight (depends on how long I feel like staying up).  

Nick


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## Sphynx (Nov 16, 2005)

Great Yair, then I'm ready to go.  I would say that +1 Quickness, and an additional +1 Quickness when in the air is a bit too much though.  Not that I'd object, but out of fairness, it's a huge bonus.  

Perhaps a better idea is just +1 Quickness, -1 Soak with an additional +1 Dexterity if airborne.  Anyhows, I'll post the MetaCreator pdf with the completed character sheets in the next few hours.

Sphynx


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## Yair (Nov 16, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Great Yair, then I'm ready to go.  I would say that +1 Quickness, and an additional +1 Quickness when in the air is a bit too much though.  Not that I'd object, but out of fairness, it's a huge bonus.



No no, it's one OR the other. You get a +1 to Qui *but* a -1 to Soak; OR a +1 to Qui and Dex (effectivey) *but* only while airborne.

At least, that's what I meant.


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## Sphynx (Nov 16, 2005)

Ok, here are the MetaCreator versions of the characters.  Unfortunately, we may have to re-do Wolf Boy anyhows.  I discovered when using the Metacreator that I'd used too many Minor Flaws.  I changed it a bit so he's a Lycanthrope (seemed the best one to fit his theme), but not sure how that'd sit with the story.  If you don't object, Yair, I'm happy with his changes, but I have no objections to re-working him and bringing him in a bit later.

Sphynx


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 17, 2005)

An engineer....

[sblock]*Giovanni Angiulo*
Grog, Engineer
Age 65

Int +2, Per 0, Pre -1, Com -1, Str 0, Sta +2, Dex 0, Qik 0
*Personality traits*: Strong -3 (alcoholic), Just +2 (honorable), Wise +1 (prudent)

*Flaws*: Arthritis, Noncombatant, Depressed
*Virtues*: Puissant Artes Liberales (arithmetic), Puissant Engineer, Clerk

*Abilities*:  Artes Liberales (arithmetic) 4, Carouse (power drinking) 5, Church History (Church politics as regard land ownership) 5, Civil and Canon Law (laws and customs of Germany) 7, Ettiquette (the Church) 4, Folk Ken (landowners) 2, German (conversational) 4, Germany Lore (Rhine) 5, Greek (engineering and architectural treatises) 5,  Italy Lore (Alps) 5, Italian (poetry) 5, Latin (engineering and architectural treatises) 4, Profession: Engineer (siegeworks and fortifications) 8, Survival (mountains) 2

*Equipment*: 2 small, worn books on classical engineering and castle-building, with various notes scrawled in the margins, a bottle of a fine Italian red wine, and a damaged copy of _The Decameron_.

*Background*: Born the son of wealthy Italian landowners in the Italian Alps, Giovanni had the opportunity to travel through Germany and Italy as a youth and eventually was sent to school to become a lawyer.  Although he found himself a capable lawyer, he was more interested (and more adept) at engineering and the accompanying mathematical formulae.  Married at a reasonably young age, Giovanni was highly successful as an architect, designing a number of villas and small castles for nobles.  When his wife died in childbirth (the child dying as well), Giovanni began to drink and his former talent was swallowed by a sea of fine wine.  He eventually found himself working for House Tremere and has been sent to Teneo with Octavian to instruct the young magi in engineering and siegeworks.[/sblock]


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## Yair (Nov 17, 2005)

*Waiting...*

[heavy New York accent]Are you waiting for me? ARE YOU WAITING FOR ME?[/heavy New York accent]
I'm waiting for you guys to move to the village or something.

On characters: I'll get around to them soon. Promise...
(Man, I've been slow lately... sorry...   )


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## MummyKitty (Nov 19, 2005)

Saw the Ars Magica 5th Edition book today at the local game shop... didn't buy it yet.  Looked really good though.  Maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list, along with all the other gaming stuff I want....


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## Sphynx (Nov 20, 2005)

Any word yet on the character(s)?


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## Yair (Nov 20, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Any word yet on the character(s)?



Yes. 
I've updated the first posts. However, I still have some notes.

*Kajamba Lion*
Eric Waldst has too few Abilities for his age (245/345 XP).
Giovann has too few Abilities (900/945 XP) as well, and one too many Personality Flaws (Grogs may have only 1). Have you considered a debt or dark secret, to account for why he is serving Tremre, and in such a remote region too?
Octavian: if he started his apprenticiship at the late teens, he should be older than 25. Also, change background to fit not having the extra Tremere PC around. And again too little XP (540/570 XP).

*Sphynx*
I didn’t go over any math. 
How do you see Lupus’ Visions coming into play? What sort of visions has he been having, what do you expect from this virtue? Also – what about background? Is he a Tremere/servant guy? Is his ally a White Wolf of the Tremeres? [The irony is killing me.] 
Dylan’s Flight of the Magus will incur normal falling damage upon, well, falling. I have no idea if speed is 40 MPH or not; speed is a normal bird’s flight speed. A Grimoire sheet would be nice.
Not sure where druid-led Celts are in 1220; I suppose Ireland? 
What's his Gild? 
Also, the .chr files would be nice.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 20, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> *Kajamba Lion*
> Eric Waldst has too few Abilities for his age (245/345 XP).
> Giovann has too few Abilities (900/945 XP) as well, and one too many Personality Flaws (Grogs may have only 1). Have you considered a debt or dark secret, to account for why he is serving Tremre, and in such a remote region too?
> Octavian: if he started his apprenticiship at the late teens, he should be older than 25. Also, change background to fit not having the extra Tremere PC around. And again too little XP (540/570 XP).



Hrm.  My math's really that bad?   :\  Okay, I'll take a look at them and see what I can do.  

I think I knew that Giovanni had too few points spent, but I was running out of things to buy — if he's missing 45 xp, though, let's cut his age down by 3 years.  At 15 points a year that should make him even.  I'll go ahead and fix his flaws and virtues.  

I'll go back and double check my math on Octavian and Eric Waldst (although, to be fair, the former's not my doing — the math is all from the template) and repost them sometime today.

Oh — as a side note, I'm going to be away from my computer from this Wednesday night until next Monday morning (heading home for Thanksgiving), so I'll be MIA for a little bit.

Nick


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## MummyKitty (Nov 20, 2005)

Did a little reading, from one book I have it says Druids may have survived in Ireland until the coming of Christianity.  Of course, this being an Ars Magical campaign, there's no reason they couldn't be found anywhere you want them to be found, Yair.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 21, 2005)

I've raised Octavian's Artes Liberales to 3 at a cost of 25 pts. and added Concentration 1 (reading) for the other 5. I've modified his history to reflect his age (he now has become an apprentice at the age of 10) and dropped the references to the other Tremere.[sblock]*Octavian*
Journeyman of House Tremere, filius to Daria la Gris
Apple Gild

Age: 25, Decrepitude 0, Warping Score 0, Confidence 1 (3)

*Characteristics*: Int +3, Per -2, Pre 0, Com 0, Str 0, Sta +2, Dex 0, Qik +1

*Virtues and Flaws*: The Gift, Hermetic Magus; Elemental Magic, Book Learner, Cautious Sorcerer, Latent Magical Ability, Minor Magical Focus (certamen)*, Skilled Parens, Ambitious, Weak Magic Resistance, Susceptibility to Divine Power, Hermetic Prestige, Compulsion (perfection)

*Personality Traits*: Just +1 (authoritarian), Loyal +2 (respectful), Tolerant -1 (traditionalist)

*Reputations*: Hermetic 3

*Abilities*: Artes Liberales 3 (arithmetic), Charm 2 (magi), Code of
Hermes 1 (certamen law), Concentration 1 (reading), Engineer 2 (military fortifications and siegeworks), Etiquette 2 (Hermetic), Finesse 2 (Terram), Folk Ken 3 (magi), Intrigue 2 (Hermetic politics), Latin 4 (Hermetic terms), Magic Theory 3 (Creo), German 5 (giving orders), Order of Hermes Lore 2 (Tremere), Parma Magica 1 (Mentem), Penetration 3 (Ignem)

*Arts*: Cr 5, In 5, Mu 5, Pe 5, Re 5, An 0, Aq 3, Au 6, Co 0, He 0, Ig 6, Im 0, Me 1, Te 6, Vi 0

*Equipment*: Wizardly robes, staff.

*Spells Known*
Circling Winds of Protection (CrAu 20) +13
Rain of Stones (MuAu(Te) 20) +13
Pilum of Fire (CrIg 20) +13
Soothe th Raging Flames (PeIg 20) +13
Tremulous Vault of the Torch's Flame (ReIg 5) +13
Seal the Earth (CrTe 15) +13
Unseen Arm (ReTe 5) +13
Trackless Step (ReTe 10) +13
Hands of the Grasping Earth (ReTe 15) +13
Earth that Breaks No More (MuTe 20) +13

The son of some wealthy German merchants, Octavian was apprenticed to Daria la Gris a, having already shown marked mathematical aptitude. She sent the lad to Coeris to learn advanced engineering theories involving the construction of siegeworks, fortifications, bridges, and so on. Afterwards, she trained him in Rego and Terram, teaching him to use his magical abilities to enhance his mundane skills and aptitudes.

Although he has proven to be a less than capable soldier (he is nowhere near as rugged as most Tremere magi, nor does he have any specific prowess in melee combat), he has proven to be a solid poltician and officer — and his engineering training makes him an excellent aide to a field commander. A traditionalist, Octavian is also somewhat pragmatic, something Daria has tried to instill in him with mixed results; he belongs to the Apple Gild and has rather progressive views regarding Hermetic politics, for instance, but still believes in the rigid hierarchies and social codes of his time, regardless of how outdated they might be. He has gone to Teneo at her command, to solidify the Gild presence there.

Description: Tall and somewhat handsome, Octavian has a decidedly academic air to him — he is clearly not a soldier. He wears plain robes and clothing and frequently carries an ornate walking staff.[/sblock]For Erich, I've added 1 rank to his Single Weapon skill, bringing it up to 5 at the cost of 25 pts. and put 75 pts. into Awareness (alertness).[sblock]Erich Waldst
Highwayman, on the run from the Alsace-Lorraine
Age: 25

Characteristics: Int +1, Per +1, Str +1, Sta +1, Pre 0, Com 0, Dex +2, Qik +2

Flaws: Outlaw (major), Enemies (major, German nobles from the Alsace-Lorraine) Ability Block (illiterate), Missing Eye
Virtues: Common Sense, Improved Characteristics, Lightning Reflexes, Luck, Puissant Guile, Puissant Stealth, Self Confident, Sharp Ears
Personality Traits: Wise (clever) +2, Strong (flexible ethics/morals) -3, Strong (practical) +3

Reputation: Highwayman 2
Confidence: 2 (5)

Abilities: Alertness (awareness) 5, Brawl (punches) 2, Folk Ken (thieves and scoundrels) 3, German (slang) 5, Guile (extravagant stories) 2, Intrigue (plotting) 3, Ledgermain (filching) 2, Ride (speed) 2, Single Weapon (short sword) 4, Stealth (hide) 5

Equipment: short sword (+1 Init, +3 Atk, +1 Dfn, +5 Dam, -1 Str), heavy leather jerkin (2 Prot)

Background: Born poor in the southwestern part of Germany, Erich grew up a bit of a rogue and a scoundrel, running away at a young age. He survived on whatever he could steal, eventually falling in with some notorious thieves and scoundrels that terrorized peasants, pilgrims, and merchants travelling through the Alsace-Lorraine. Years of success eventually caught up with him, as he ended up robbing a few nobles by accident and only barely escaping them as he fled to Pomerania. The road eventually led to Fengheld, where he's subsided on odd jobs and occasional physical labor. He longs for a reasonably safe place where he could put some of his skills to work in a semi-honest fashion. figuring that his theoretical patron may be willing to stand in between the past and him.[/sblock]Finally, Giovanni has lost three years off of his age, making him xx.  According to the book, he can have up to three minor flaws (page 29), so I haven't changed those yet.  *Edit*: Check that, I found the information on page 37 (no more than one personality flaw, so I've changed noncombatant to blackmail.[sblock]Giovanni Angiulo
Grog, Engineer
Age 65

Int +2, Per 0, Pre -1, Com -1, Str 0, Sta +2, Dex 0, Qik 0
Personality traits: Strong -3 (alcoholic), Just +2 (honorable), Wise +1 (prudent)

Flaws: Arthritis, Blackmail, Depressed
Virtues: Puissant Artes Liberales (arithmetic), Puissant Engineer, Clerk

Abilities: Artes Liberales (arithmetic) 4, Carouse (power drinking) 5, Church History (Church politics as regard land ownership) 5, Civil and Canon Law (laws and customs of Germany) 7, Ettiquette (the Church) 4, Folk Ken (landowners) 2, German (conversational) 4, Germany Lore (Rhine) 5, Greek (engineering and architectural treatises) 5, Italy Lore (Alps) 5, Italian (poetry) 5, Latin (engineering and architectural treatises) 4, Profession: Engineer (siegeworks and fortifications) 8, Survival (mountains) 2

Equipment: 2 small, worn books on classical engineering and castle-building, with various notes scrawled in the margins, a bottle of a fine Italian red wine, and a damaged copy of The Decameron.

Background: Born the son of wealthy Italian landowners in the Italian Alps, Giovanni had the opportunity to travel through Germany and Italy as a youth and eventually was sent to school to become a lawyer. Although he found himself a capable lawyer, he was more interested (and more adept) at engineering and the accompanying mathematical formulae. Married at a reasonably young age, Giovanni was highly successful as an architect, designing a number of villas and small castles for nobles. When his wife died in childbirth (the child dying as well), Giovanni began to drink and his former talent was swallowed by a sea of fine wine. He eventually found himself working for House Tremere and has been sent to Teneo with Octavian to instruct the young magi in engineering and siegeworks.

*Blackmail*: 



Spoiler



Giovanni left civilian life and moved into Hermetic circles due to his knowledge of some less than holy arrangements and behaviors of and on the part of the Church, as discovered through his studies and work.  He has "disappeared" as part of his agreement with the Church — in exchange for between 30 and 50 silver pennies, he promises to do work solely for the magi and to leave commoners and ecclesiastics alone.


[/sblock]


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## Sphynx (Nov 21, 2005)

Yair said:
			
		

> [sblock]
> *Sphynx*
> I didn’t go over any math.
> How do you see Lupus’ Visions coming into play? What sort of visions has he been having, what do you expect from this virtue? Also – what about background? Is he a Tremere/servant guy? Is his ally a White Wolf of the Tremeres? [The irony is killing me.]
> ...




[sblock]
Not positive I understand the Visions question, but will do my best to build upon the flaw with story, which is what I think you want....

Lupus' visions are more of a flaw from being too perceptive.  When he enters an area that is highly magical, or highly emotional (Ie: battlefields, burial grounds, sacrificial areas, etc), his perceptions can become clouded as past/present/future events all merge into a single image/sound.  He could walk into a place where a great battle took place and be overcome with imagery of the battle, dodging out of attacks that aren't there.  In a place of a planned, future battle, the same spectral images could also befall him, but since the future is not locked in fate, Images disappear as fast as they appear, showing only attacks of importance that 'might' happen.  In addition to these negative traits, his visions are also interactive with his premonition skill, and at times he 'sees' the danger instead of just getting a feel for the possible danger.  He's had no vision for several weeks now, his last vision having been of a drowning boy as he drank at a lake, possible a death in the past or a possible death in the near future.

His Wolf Companion is his brother, the last remaining Wolf of the pack he was raised in.  He is a large, ebony black wolf that is still hesitant to join Lupus' new "pack" of humans, and remains on the outskirts, stalking the woods.  Although he doesn't understand the intricacies that would split a common group of people from within a group of people (Ie: He doesn't grasp that a Tremere is a Tremere, they are all a part of the 'pack') , his closest 'friends' are the Tremere who recognize the hierarchy within the pack.  His brother remains in the woods, hidden in shadows.

Dylan: 
40 MPH is the average velocity of a bird in the air, though smaller birds average closer to 30, larger birds like geese and predatorial birds average much higher than 40.

Ireland is his place of birth, yes.

I don't know what you mean by 'his gild'.  If you mean his sigil, it's that his hair moves as if being blown by a mild wind.  His Sigil for the tribunal is a silver ring with 3 silver, wavy lines engraved on a flat circle of black.

I'll email the .chr files for you.
[/sblock]


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## Yair (Nov 21, 2005)

Sphynx...
[sblock]







			
				Sphynx said:
			
		

> Not positive I understand the Visions question, but will do my best to build upon the flaw with story, which is what I think you want....
> 
> Lupus' visions are more of a flaw from being too perceptive.  When he enters an area that is highly magical, or highly emotional (Ie: battlefields, burial grounds, sacrificial areas, etc), his perceptions can become clouded as past/present/future events all merge into a single image/sound.  He could walk into a place where a great battle took place and be overcome with imagery of the battle, dodging out of attacks that aren't there.  In a place of a planned, future battle, the same spectral images could also befall him, but since the future is not locked in fate, Images disappear as fast as they appear, showing only attacks of importance that 'might' happen.  In addition to these negative traits, his visions are also interactive with his premonition skill, and at times he 'sees' the danger instead of just getting a feel for the possible danger.  He's had no vision for several weeks now, his last vision having been of a drowning boy as he drank at a lake, possible a death in the past or a possible death in the near future.



That's great.


> His Wolf Companion is his brother, the last remaining Wolf of the pack he was raised in.  He is a large, ebony black wolf that is still hesitant to join Lupus' new "pack" of humans, and remains on the outskirts, stalking the woods.  Although he doesn't understand the intricacies that would split a common group of people from within a group of people (Ie: He doesn't grasp that a Tremere is a Tremere, they are all a part of the 'pack') , his closest 'friends' are the Tremere who recognize the hierarchy within the pack.  He is fascinated by the White Wolf, but so far, there have been no trials of Dominance between him and the White wolf to understand who is the Alpha.  As for his Brother and the White Wolf, they have a mutual understanding that the covenant area is the territiory of the White Wolf, and his brother remains in the woods, hidden in shadows.  (I hope that's ok....., not read much about this White Wolf yet)



Not so great.
The Tremere have these great White Wolfs back in Coeris, in the Transylvania Tribunal. They're close, some suspect some Tremere have white-wolf heartbeasts. Tremere also have a lot of affinity with other wolves. 
But there is no White Wolf around Teneo, our covenant. Not unless you decide to make him your animal companion (they have Might 10, BTW). If you, it is your brother. It isn't another wolf.



> Dylan:
> 40 MPH is the average velocity of a bird in the air, though smaller birds average closer to 30, larger birds like geese and predatorial birds average much higher than 40.
> 
> Ireland is his place of birth, yes.



Cool.



> I don't know what you mean by 'his gild'.  If you mean his sigil, it's that his hair moves as if being blown by a mild wind.  His Sigil for the tribunal is a silver ring with 3 silver, wavy lines engraved on a flat circle of black.



Every character in this saga should choose a Gild. It's kind of like a political party. The different gilds are explained in post #8 in this thread.
[/sblock]


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## Sphynx (Nov 21, 2005)

Gild: Elder (of course...  )

Wolf: Reworking that story is easy enough, if there are no White Wolves around, then the story works out ok except for the rivalry part between the wolves.  We just remove that (I'll edit it out), and my brother remains an out-skirts loner who refuses to enter the covenant area (something the grogs are happy with), waiting for Lupus to join him on a foray (which he does often).

As for the Tremere, I don't think they have to play a factor in the background except perhaps with their own interest in the wolf (based on their affinity for them).  Thoughts?


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## Sphynx (Nov 23, 2005)

We cool?


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## Yair (Nov 23, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> We cool?



errg... yes... 
If it's about me not writing back, well I don't have any real thoughts on the matter. The story checks out, the Tremere may be in your background or not - as you prefer. I just didn't see the point of saying I have nothing to say...

Your characters are nearly done but the campaign doesn't seem to accomodate a new PC for a little time, what with just entering the peasant's house and all. Even Puck is no longer with the main party. 
If you have any ideas how to join along do say so, if not - I'll think of something.

Yair


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## Sphynx (Nov 23, 2005)

Cool, I'll await your intro for the character (and no, I have no idea how to get myself intro'd from so far away).


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## Yair (Nov 25, 2005)

Sphynx said:
			
		

> Cool, I'll await your intro for the character (and no, I have no idea how to get myself intro'd from so far away).



Still missing those .chr files...


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## Sphynx (Nov 27, 2005)

I sent them to the email address you first emailed me from.  I'll send them again.....


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## Nzld (Nov 28, 2005)

Hey, looks like Kajamba Lion won something!

Congratulations!!!

So, what is *Dungeon Crawl Classics #20: Shadows in Freeport* and why is it on your wishlist?


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## MummyKitty (Nov 29, 2005)

Wow, congrats Kajamba Lion! I'm gonna add some stuff to my wishlist, just in case...


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## Yair (Nov 29, 2005)

Congradulations, Kajamba Lion!

I never go to the ENStore, took me a while to figure out what you were talking about...


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich (Nov 29, 2005)

what that ?


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## Yair (Nov 29, 2005)

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> what that ?



See here. It's a store for downloading pdfs. See the message near the top, it says Kajamba Lion won.

I personally never go there, it reeks of commercialization for me. I go to RPGNow mostly.

Cheers,
  Yair


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 29, 2005)

Thanks, all.    DCC #20 is an adventure set in Green Ronin's Freeport, and I put it on my wishlist because I'm always looking for new adventures, I generally like the author's stuff, and it looked interesting -- I don't play in Freeport, but I figured I could drop it into Sharn.  I figured I'd come back to it when I had some money to burn, but winning it's cool, too.


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