# Old-school dungeon crawl using 5e playtest rules



## Li Shenron (Oct 19, 2013)

Would anyone be interested in playing this type of game here on ENWorld PbP forums?

I've been DMing for a few years (in 3e era) and I have played a bunch of PbP games over time, but I have never actually been the DM in a PbP. That probably means I'll goof here and there, but I'm willing to try at least 

I want this to be an opportunity for playtesting the final public packet. Therefore I have decided to opt for an old-school dungeon crawl, so that we can hopefully be exploring and fighting soon enough, without taking ages just to get there... I am familiar with the slowness of PbP games! It would be nice to generate some playtest feedback with this game, but generally I think it will end being probably too late to have an effect on 5e development.

I am going to give you full control over your PC's death. Should your PC die, you can choose to let it go, and you are entitled to create a new one and continue playing, or we can come up with something else to explain why it's not dead after all. That's because I don't really want the game to focus on the story or character development, but I rather just want to playtest the rules and see how they work. (Thus if e.g. you think your Fighter died so soon that you didn't get an opinion on how a 5e Fighter feels in play, you can ask to continue with the same PC... I want this to be up to you!).

But first, let's see if anybody is interested at all


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 20, 2013)

Yay!  I'd be very interested. This sounds like fun, and I'm not in any online games right now (so I can post regularly).

I figure I'm safe to offer to play a Cleric or Paladin or Fighter, but I'd be up for playing anything, really!

(are you thinking of starting at level 1?)


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## Li Shenron (Oct 20, 2013)

Kobold Stew said:


> (are you thinking of starting at level 1?)




Yes. Here's what I am thinking of:

- 1st level
- everything in the playtest packet allowed
- played by the RAW as much as possible

Thus when the playtest packet says that some character stuff is "optional", every player can choose for herself:

- you can choose which stat generation method to use from the 3 presented (rolling, standard array, point-buy): _Character Creation p.1_
- you can choose an existing background or to make one up: _Backgrounds and skills, p.2_

Some other "options" we'll see as we play, if we ever get that far... for instance Magic Item's Test of Wills, Mixing Potions and Scroll Mishaps. We could try these out with some items but not necessarily all.

I am still undecided on whether to run combats with or without a grid. I would like to do without at first, but we can change, if it's confusing or if it doesn't let players use their PC features satisfactorily.

Also, I would like to roll dice openly so that you can see how the rules work. My idea is to put monsters' rolls under a spoiler tag, so you don't see them if you don't want to.


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 20, 2013)

Sounds really cool. My guess is for an online game grid-less combat should go faster, unless you've got a particular way of doing a grid that's easy and fast for you. Either way: fun!


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## Annandul (Oct 21, 2013)

Hello! First time poster here, and I'm interested in playing! I'm looking to get into PbP seeing as my local group's split up. I'm not in a game right now, and would be able to post regularly. If I get to play, I'd probably want to play the new shiny Bard, as I've not yet seen one in play, or the Rogue, if someone else doesn't want to play that class.

Are you planning on using skills and/or feats?


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## Shayuri (Oct 21, 2013)

Argh...been wanting to try the new rules. Do you have to be subscribed to get the packet? I am a little clueless on 5e. And by 'little' I mean 'lot.'


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## Li Shenron (Oct 22, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Argh...been wanting to try the new rules. Do you have to be subscribed to get the packet? I am a little clueless on 5e. And by 'little' I mean 'lot.'




Don't need a subscription, just go to WotC website and look for the download page in the DNDNext section. It will ask you to register but that only means you provide an email address (to which they will send you notifications about feedback surveys) and make up a password.


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## Shayuri (Oct 22, 2013)

Keen! Thanks!


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## Jimmy Disco T (Oct 23, 2013)

I may be interested in this. I've played/DM'd a lot of 3e, a bit of 2e retroclone and skipped 4e completely - how easy would it be to get the hang of 5e/Next?

I'll be coming at this as a completely blank slate so I'm happy to play whichever class would fit around other players.


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 27, 2013)

I am really surprised there is not more interest in this thread -- so many people talking about the game on the boards. Is it possible they just don't know it's happening? 

I'd like to play! Come on, people!


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## Li Shenron (Oct 27, 2013)

Well, I've tried to look for PbP games as a player before, but they were very scarce. I thought maybe it's just that nobody wants to DM, which is why eventually I started this thread. Let's give it one more week to see if we can be at least 3 players...


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 27, 2013)

Great! 

Since the purpose is to push/explore the RAW, my current preference would be to try 
(a) a Mountain Dwarf Druid (and so with metal armor proficiencies), or 
(b) a Stout Halfling Barbarian (and so a Dex build*). 
Both, I think should be able to hold their own. But so many builds to try, I could always find something else! 

* by my reading, "strength checks" while raging would not include attacks; I might be missing something.


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2013)

Argh, I keep forgetting to download the darn packet when I get a chance. Sorry!

Will post here when I have my act gotether.


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## wedgeski (Oct 28, 2013)

I'd be interested in joining this.


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2013)

Hm! Okay, have read up on 5th Ed. Looks very interesting.

Only seen ideas from one so far, so I'll say I'd like to try a Mage, probably human or High Elf...or perhaaaaaps a ranger?

You don't start with a free feat, right? You can only get those in lieu of a stat upgrade on your class progression?


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 28, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> You don't start with a free feat, right? You can only get those in lieu of a stat upgrade on your class progression?




That's correct.


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## EximiusNero (Oct 29, 2013)

I've been wanting to see how Next played like. I'd like to join in


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## Shayuri (Oct 29, 2013)

Okay, Sulannus Phaedran, High Elf princess is ready to embark on her road to legend!

...unfortunately, the greatest heroes in the land won't return her Sendings, so it looks like she'll be adventuring with _you_ guys. *sigh* What_ever._

*Sulannus Phaedran*
_High Elf Wizard (Evoker) 2_
*Background*: Noble (retainers)

*Str *8 -1
*Dex *18 +4
*Con *12 +1
*Int *17 +3
*Wis *13 +1
*Cha *13 +1
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4278289/

*HP *7
*AC *14 (10 + 4)
*Prof Bonus* +2
*Init *+4

*Race *
High Elf
+2 dex, +1 int
Darkvision
Weapon Training (long/shortsword, long/shortbow)
Keen senses (trained in Perception)
Adv vs Charm, immune to magic sleep
Trance (4 hrs rest)
+1 cantrip
Bonus language

*Class *
Wizardry
Ritual Casting
Arcane Recovery (recover 1 slot w/short rest)
Arcane Tradition: Evoker
- Sculpt Spells (Omit up to 1+spell level) creatures from spell effect areas)

*Proficiencies*
Weapons: Daggers, darts, slings, staves, lgt crossbow
Tools: Gaming set, mounts (land)
Saves: Intelligence and Wisdom

*Skills*
Arcana
History
Insight
Persuasion
Perception

*Languages*
Common, Elven, Sylvan, Draconic, Dwarf

*Spellcasting *(Save DC 13)
Slots 1 - 3
Prepared
1 - Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Shield, Mage Armor, Charm Person

*Spellbook*
0 - Dancing Lights, Ray of Frost, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand
1 - Mage Armor, Burning Hands, Magic Missile, Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Identify, Shield, Charm Person

*Equipment*
Cash: 20gp 4sp 9cp

*Weapons*
Dagger, +6 atk, 1d4-1dmg, 2gp

*Armor *
None

*Gear*
Fine clothes, 15gp
Signet ring, 5gp
Mirror, 1/2lb, 5gp
Pouch, 1lb, 1gp
Component pouch, 2lbs, 25gp
Spellbook, 3lbs, free (class item)
Waterskin, 4lbs, 2sp

_Retainers carrying_
Sack, 1/2lb, 1cp
Mess kit, 1lb, 2sp
Soap, 5lb, 1sp
Tent, 20lbs, 2gp

*Familiar *(100gp)
*Sunbolt the Mighty*
Tiny Celestial Hawk
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 10+2 hp for each of your levels beyond 3rd
Speed 5 ft, Fly 30 ft
Str 2 (–4)
Dex 12 (+1)
Con 6 (–2)
Int 2 (–4)
Wis 10 (+0)
Cha 2 (–4)

*Traits*
Fly speed
100' telepathy
Share senses (1 action)
Deliver touch spell

*Retainers *(background trait)
*Hanna the Halfling Handmaid*_ (does laundry, helps dress, fusses over hair and hygiene and such)_

*Pox, the Wood Elf Messenger/errand boy* _(fetches things, carries messages, is easily impressed)_

*Human Manservant Archiebald* _(carries and maintains things, announces her, does books, organizes schedule, keeps the money, etc)_


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 29, 2013)

*Bartleby* 
NG Mountain Dwarf Druid 
Level 1

Abilities:
STR 12 (+1)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 14 (+2)
INT 11 (+0)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 12 (+1)

Size M
Speed 25 (25 in armour, disadvantage on stealth)
AC 19
Init +3
Hit Points 10

Proficiency bonus: +1
Proficiencies: Light and Medium Armor, wooden shields, druid weapons, dwarven weapons, Herbalism kit
Saves: WIS
Skills: Survival, Perception, Search, Stealth
Languages: Common, Druidic, Dwarvish, Goblinoid, Giant

Background (trait): Bounty Hunter (Bounty Board)

Race abilities: 
* Darkvision 60'
* Dwarven Relisience (adv on saves vs. poison, resistance to posion)
* Stonecunning (adv on Int (Hist) on stone, can't become lost underground
* Armor Mastery (+1 to AC in med or heavy armor)

Class abilities:
* Spellcasting (DC 12, 13 when holding focus)
- slots: 2 x 1st level
- 2 spells may be prepared/day 
- typical spells ready: _Cure Wounds, Entangle_
- Cantrips: _Druidcraft, Guidance_

Equipment: Scale Mail, Shield, Adventurer's kit, Herbalism kit*, traveller's clothing, manacles, scimitar, Potion of Healing* x 2

Weight: 109


*no price given; I assume initial kit+components(+proficiency)=healing potion. So 25gp? 5lbs?. Potions of Healing bought at 25gp for materials only.

EDIT: 24 January: Aeiyan has one healing potion.
26 January. hobgob woman's dagger. +50XP (post 116)


EDIT: Rule clarifications:
* readying an action (and following)


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## Li Shenron (Oct 29, 2013)

Great! [MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION] and [MENTION=23484]Kobold Stew[/MENTION], take your time to finalize your PCs. [MENTION=78010]EximiusNero[/MENTION] you are welcome to join.

There is another player wanting to join, but he has technical troubles posting to ENW right now.


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## wedgeski (Oct 29, 2013)

Li Shenron said:


> There is another player wanting to join, but he has technical troubles posting to ENW right now.



<---- And another player who posted up-thread.


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## Li Shenron (Oct 30, 2013)

wedgeski said:


> <---- And another player who posted up-thread.




You were on my ignore list, thus I didn't see your previous post! You're paroled now  

You are welcome to play, feel free to create a PC and post it in this thread.


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## wedgeski (Oct 30, 2013)

Li Shenron said:


> You were on my ignore list, thus I didn't see your previous post! You're paroled now



Yes I had a slightly visceral reaction to one of your posts in a DDN thread.  Apologies again.



> You are welcome to play, feel free to create a PC and post it in this thread.



Great! I'll get on that asap.


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## Li Shenron (Oct 30, 2013)

wedgeski said:


> Yes I had a slightly visceral reaction to one of your posts in a DDN thread.  Apologies again.




No problem


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## wedgeski (Oct 30, 2013)

*Rejik Fendall *

*1st level LN Human Cleric (Soldier) 

Domain: War (Vraith) *


STR 14 (+2) 

DEX 11 (+0) 

CON 15 (+2) 

INT 9 (-1) 

WIS 17 (+3) 

CHA 13 (+1) 


*Description *

Rejik is a gruff fellow, more at home beside a camp fire than in a warm bed, and entirely ill-at-ease in high-born company. From field commander to refugee to adventurer, he has little time for the niceties and will happily burp his thanks for a good meal as actually say the words. 

Raised in a war-torn fiefdom which hasn't seen peace for generations, his calling was one of duty, not one of spirit. Unfortunately, his homeland has long-since collapsed into barbarism, and he intends to spend the rest of his life making the lawless pay for the atrocities he saw committed there. 

As a soldier he respects courage, loyalty, conscience, and obedience. He recognizes that his connection to the divine is rare and privileged, but he sees it as an act of commerce, a fair trade: _Give me power to avenge the weak, and I will shed blood in your name_. He intends to continue in this vein until his god decides otherwise. 

*Vraith* is the god of spent anger, avenged wrongs, and exhausted rage. Among his people, great deeds mean nothing unless they bring you to the very edge of your skills, to the line between what you know and what you don't. As a follower of Vraith, you should never surrender, never stop, never give up the chase. It's with this spirit of tenacity that his people, so long besieged by the great barbarian tribes of the cold plains, survived as long as they did, although since their fall, Rejik's relationship with his god has taken a turn for the ironic. Vraith has yet to show any disapproval with such flippancy.


*Combat & Vitals *

Size: M  Height: 6'  Age: 40 Weight: TODO  Eyes: Brown  Hair: Black 

Speed: 25 ft. (base + heavy armour) 

HD: 1d8 

HP: 10 (8 + con)  

AC: 18 (chain mail + shield + dex) 

Init: +0 (dex) 

Warhammer: +3 (str + prof), 1d8+2 (B), 1d10+2 (B, 2h) 

Javelin: +1 (dex + prof), 1d6 (P), Range 30'/120' 


*Spells *

Spell Save DC: 12 (8 + wis + holy symbol), 11 without holy symbol 

Cantrips (3): Light, Spare the Dying, Thaumaturgy 

1st Level (1): Divine Favour (Domain), Shield of Faith (Domain), Bless, Cure Wounds 


*Skills *

Athletics 

Intimidation 

Survival 

Medicine 


*Proficiencies* 

Armor: Light, Medium, Heavy (Domain), Shields (Domain) 

Weapons: Simple, Martial (Domain) 

Tools: Healer's kit, Gaming set, mounts (land), vehicles (land) 


*Special Abilities* 

Divine Domain 

Spellcasting 

War Priest (Domain) 

Trait - Military Rank (Field Commander) 


*Languages *
Common 

Elvish (race) 


*Equipment* 

Chain Mail 

Shield 

Warhammer 

Javelin (4) 

Adventurer's Kit 

Holy Symbol 

Holy Water (1 flask) 

Healer's kit 

Lucky Charm (scalp of barbarian chief) 

Rank insignia (stained purple sash, worn around the neck) 

Traveler's clothes 

Bone dice 


*Currency* 

PP: 0  GP: 49  SP: 9 CP: 0


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2013)

Wedgeski, I love that background. Should be fun with Sulannus and him constantly clashing. 

I want to suggest swapping his Charisma and Strength, if you want him to be a warrior-priest. I admit, I don't know if Charisma is essential to your concept or build though.

In that vein, does anyone know if attribute mods add or subtract from weapon damage in 5e? The file I have mentions that attack rolls are modified, but any mention of damage rolls is conspicuously absent.


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## wedgeski (Oct 30, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Wedgeski, I love that background. Should be fun with Sulannus and him constantly clashing.







> I want to suggest swapping his Charisma and Strength, if you want him to be a warrior-priest. I admit, I don't know if Charisma is essential to your concept or build though.



Yeah, I think that's a good call. His soldier background took shape as I went along so I need to fix that up.



> In that vein, does anyone know if attribute mods add or subtract from weapon damage in 5e? The file I have mentions that attack rolls are modified, but any mention of damage rolls is conspicuously absent.



Yup, "How to Play", p.4 & p.5, under "Attack Rolls".


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2013)

Ah, thanks!

*totters off to tweak Su's sheet*


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## Jimmy Disco T (Oct 30, 2013)

And I'm back! Technical troubles resolved.

I'm happy to fit around everyone else. Looks like the group could use a meatshield Fighter or Barbarian of some sort. Maybe a Warforged?


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## wedgeski (Oct 31, 2013)

Jimmy Disco T said:


> And I'm back! Technical troubles resolved.



Welcome back!



> I'm happy to fit around everyone else. Looks like the group could use a meatshield Fighter or Barbarian of some sort. Maybe a Warforged?



Sounds cool to me.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 2, 2013)

While you finalize your PCs, I have a couple of questions for all of you.

It's a given that there will be dungeon exploration and combat encounters.

We should decide however, if we also want to give a try to the actual 5e interaction rules and exploration rules. 

More specifically, would you prefer (a) to start from the nearest town/village including possibly interacting with the locals, (b) to start from the wilderness, having some rounds with the 5e exploration rules, or (c) to start straight at the dungeon entrance?


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## Shayuri (Nov 2, 2013)

If we're doing a playtest, lets test the rules. I don't mind taking a little longer. I anticipate this being a lot of fun, so lets have fun with it. 

My vote is for A, B and C...in that order.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 2, 2013)

I'd like not to ignore the other pillars, but I'd like to get going -- Starting in the wilderness or right at the dungeon makes sense to me so that we can get some momentum. We promise to interact with NPCs in the future!  But of course, it's your game -- go with whatever you feel will get us moving.

Bartleby's done now, I think (post 19). 

Is it okay to assume that at some point he'd spent a few hours making potions with the herbalism kit? I've bought the ingredients. 

If anyone has thoughts on the build, I'd appreciate it.


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## Shayuri (Nov 2, 2013)

Bartlesby is unusually spry for a dwarf! Does that dex bonus help you much when you're wearing that armor? I haven't gone over the rules for equipment in detail yet. Is it just Heavy armor that stops the dex bonus from applying?

Also, did they do away with the 'druids cannot wear metal' thing D&D has always had?

If so, I don't see any issues or anything. Pretty sweet roll for stats, but then I'm in no position to complain myself.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks for the comments:

Medium armor allows +2 from dex (+1 from dwarvocity). I pumped Dex over Str really on a whim, but I think it works.  I expect if we get to a point of levelling up that at least 1 level of rogue would be in his future (maybe after Druid 2). 

As for the metal, here is my reading: druids don't have proficiencies in metal armor, but it's not banned to them. That was part of what I wanted to play around with -- a metal druid. (cue electric guitar riff).


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## Li Shenron (Nov 2, 2013)

Kobold Stew said:


> Is it okay to assume that at some point he'd spent a few hours making potions with the herbalism kit? I've bought the ingredients.




Time before the adventure is not an issue, you can assume you used as much of it as you wish!



Shayuri said:


> Also, did they do away with the 'druids cannot wear metal' thing D&D has always had?




Yes, there is no restriction AFAIK.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 2, 2013)

Li Shenron said:


> Time before the adventure is not an issue, you can assume you used as much of it as you wish!




Cool -- thanks.


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## wedgeski (Nov 2, 2013)

Kobold Stew said:


> I'd like not to ignore the other pillars, but I'd like to get going -- Starting in the wilderness or right at the dungeon makes sense to me so that we can get some momentum. We promise to interact with NPCs in the future!  But of course, it's your game -- go with whatever you feel will get us moving.



This sums up my feelings on the matter as well.  I'd certainly like to playtest the exploration and interaction rules in the course of this game, but I think the best thing for now is to kick in the door and get busy!


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## Li Shenron (Nov 3, 2013)

Jimmy Disco T said:


> I'm happy to fit around everyone else. Looks like the group could use a meatshield Fighter or Barbarian of some sort. Maybe a Warforged?




You are free to choose. I am not going to make suggestions, since I know what awaits you all but I love randomness - that's quite a feature of old school IMHO  - and that includes playing with a party of PC that may be of any combination of PCs. I didn't look at your PCs before choosing what is in the adventure in order to tailor it around them!

  [MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION] I believe you are entitled an additional bonus language. You can also choose if you want some spells e.g. _Mage Armor_ pre-cast before approaching the location of adventure.

I will have the party roll some preliminary skill checks before writing the opening description.


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## Jimmy Disco T (Nov 3, 2013)

*'Tock' - NG Warforged Fighter
*
*Description*
Tock's earliest memory is a blinding flash of sunlight as a fallen tree was lifted off him in a forest clearing, followed by a collection of puzzled looks from a crowd of human villagers gathered around him.

 Not recalling his actual name, he adopted the moniker 'Tock' after a little girl commented on the 'tick tock man' the men brought back to the village, a reference to the mechanical timepiece embedded into his chestplate. Unusually the timepiece does not seem to conform to the hours of the day, sometimes speeding up, sometimes slowing down,and is covered with arcane symbols in place of numbers. It's purpose is unknown, even to Tock himself.

Tock was greeted with suspicion and even fear by the villagers at first,but he soon proved his worth when he helped drive away a band of Kobolds which raided the village's food stores. Since then, Tock has become a self-appointed protector of sorts, helping defend the village from threats, patrolling the local area and even helping to gather supplies for the harsh winters to ensure the villagers have enough food.

Recently Tock has been troubled by his still absent memory, and has determined to see more of the world in the hope that someone, somewhere, may be able to tell him who he truly is.

Level 2 stats below


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## Li Shenron (Nov 3, 2013)

Jimmy Disco T said:


> (Let me know if I've made any glaring errors with this, it's been a very long time since I've built a D&D character...)




You should add Climber’s kit and navigator’s tools to your tool proficiencies, and I think you haven't picked your Fighter's skill.

You are also proficient with shields, and Strength and Constitution saving throws, and you can pick one additional known language because of your race.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 3, 2013)

Great Stuff, Jimmy Disco T! A few quick things I see:

* With Guide as your background, you also gain proficiency in Climber's kit and navigator's tools. (Background and Skills p. 4). You may want to buy these kits, too. 
* As a fighter, you also gain proficiency in another skill (either acrobatics or intimidation), and proficiency in Strength and Constitution saves. (Classes p. 25).
* You're proficient in "mounts (land)" from two sources (background and class). Since we're being allowed to custom-build a background, you may (with Li Shenron's permission) want to take a proficiency in another language or tool.

EDIT: Scooped!


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## Li Shenron (Nov 3, 2013)

Kobold Stew said:


> * You're proficient in "mounts (land)" from two sources (background and class). Since we're being allowed to custom-build a background, you may (with Li Shenron's permission) want to take a proficiency in another language or tool.




Yes! Good catch!


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## Shayuri (Nov 3, 2013)

Li, Sulannus will indeed cast Mage Armor prior to arriving at the dungeon.

I'll add another language as well. Perhaps Halfling, so she can tell if Hannah is being naughty.

Or...Draconic is a good wizard language...


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 3, 2013)

Shayuri, You are the first person I have ever seen who has willingly thought about having a character learn the halfling language.

Truly spectacular.


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## Shayuri (Nov 3, 2013)

Heee

When you have a halfling handmaid, there's a certain utility to it. Especially when no one else ever speaks it.


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## tuxgeo (Nov 4, 2013)

You have six players expressing interest now. How big a party would you like to try to handle? 

(By my count, a Cleric, a Druid, a Fighter, and a Mage have been posted; and both Annandul and Eximius Nero have yet to post PCs.)


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## wedgeski (Nov 4, 2013)

Nice background, JDT! I anticipate some fun times with this crowd.

For the DM: Shall I just pick a D&D deity and not worry too much about which campaign it's from? I doubt it'll have much impact unless the game starts to push beyond its dungeon-crawling mandate.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 4, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Li, Sulannus will indeed cast Mage Armor prior to arriving at the dungeon.




You can add the bonus from it to AC so that I don't forget 



tuxgeo said:


> You have six players expressing interest now. How big a party would you like to try to handle?
> 
> (By my count, a Cleric, a Druid, a Fighter, and a Mage have been posted; and both Annandul and Eximius Nero have yet to post PCs.)




I assumed they aren't interested anymore. If you want to make a PC and join the party, go ahead! 



wedgeski said:


> For the DM: Shall I just pick a D&D deity and not worry too much about which campaign it's from? I doubt it'll have much impact unless the game starts to push beyond its dungeon-crawling mandate.




I have noticed that you left it blank, but I don't mind. There is no specific setting behind this game, so you can make up your deity or choose any from a published setting. 

---

Now some task for all of you:

  [MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION]: make an Intelligence(History) check with proficiency + a Wisdom(Survival) check

  [MENTION=23484]Kobold Stew[/MENTION]: make an Intelligence(History) check with advantage + another Intelligence check + a Wisdom(Survival) check with proficiency

  [MENTION=16212]wedgeski[/MENTION]: make a Wisdom(Survival) check with proficiency

  [MENTION=6749529]Jimmy Disco T[/MENTION]: make an Intelligence(Nature) check with proficiency + a Wisdom(Survival) check with proficiency

Also, all of you can make a Wisdom(Perception) check.

These are preliminary checks for setting some starting conditions of the party. You'll then get to make one decision together, and then I'll forward you towards the dungeon's entrance.


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## wedgeski (Nov 4, 2013)

Wisdom (Survival): 20
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4290799/

Wisdom (Perception): 18
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4290801/

Hey, I like that dice roller. 

OT: What happened to the ENW secure dice roller? I thought that was supposed to be one of the last Kickstarter's stretch goals?


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## Li Shenron (Nov 4, 2013)

wedgeski said:


> OT: What happened to the ENW secure dice roller? I thought that was supposed to be one of the last Kickstarter's stretch goals?




I asked about it a few months ago, IIRC it went away with the ENW crash. Sadly, because having a dice roller embedded in your PbP thread was great!


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## wedgeski (Nov 4, 2013)

Li Shenron said:


> I asked about it a few months ago, IIRC it went away with the ENW crash. Sadly, because having a dice roller embedded in your PbP thread was great!



So is the invisiblecastle thing acceptable? Not exactly secure, but we're all adults here I guess.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 4, 2013)

an Intelligence(History) check with advantage (best of 2 x d20s) = 13.

another Intelligence check (d20) = 7.

a Wisdom(Survival) check with proficiency (best of 2 x d20+5) = 24 (we'll be eatin' well tonight!).

a Wisdom(Perception) check (d20+4) = 21.


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## Shayuri (Nov 4, 2013)

History 19, survival 8 and Perception 21

It is pretty clear to anyone watching that Sulannus has -zero- experience with being outdoors. Aren't elves supposed to be all tree-huggy though??!!

http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4290818/

Revision! Perception should be 19. I added 2 instead of rolling twice for advantage. Old habits. Hee hee.


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## Jimmy Disco T (Nov 4, 2013)

OK, here we go...

INT (Nature) with proficiency = 2d20 pick best -1 = *18*
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4290881/

WIS (Survival) with proficiency = 2d20 pick best = *2*
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4290883/

Ooops. Presumably Tock will be intelligent enough to identify the various hazards but not savvy enough to avoid walking right into them...

Also: I feel like I'm not using Invisible Castle very well. What 'code' are people using to generate 2d20 take highest +/- stat?

EDIT: I think I've got it. 2d20.takeHighest(1)+1 seems to do the trick?


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## Li Shenron (Nov 4, 2013)

wedgeski said:


> So is the invisiblecastle thing acceptable? Not exactly secure, but we're all adults here I guess.




Yeah, sure!


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## tuxgeo (Nov 5, 2013)

Li Shenron said:


> . . . I assumed they aren't interested anymore. If you want to make a PC and join the party, go ahead!




OK, I'll go ahead with that. I was thinking of doing something that the September packet first made available in this playtest, such as a Gnome Bard -- but then I decided I shouldn't inflict that questionable archetype upon the party, so here's another idea:

Now working on Aeiyan Athelmar, Wood Elf Ranger, with the Commoner background (Profession: Forester). 
Um, that combination gets Tool Proficiency of Mounts (land) both from background and class; should I substitute some other proficiency for one of those? 

I'm still figuring out equipment, but will post when I think I have him done, and I'll include a Wisdom (Perception) check when I'm sure what his stats are.

Edit: 

*Aeiyan Athelmar*, 1st-level CG Wood Elf Ranger with Commoner background

abilities generated by Point-Buy: 15-14-13-12-11-10 is 30 points (unless I added wrong) -- 

STR 14 
DEX 16 (15 + 1 racial) 
CON 12 
INT 11 
WIS 14 (13 + 1 racial) 
CHA 10 

Size Medium -- Height 5'10" -- Weight 154 -- Age 60 -- Eyes Blue -- Hair Gray 
(Worships the elven god of nature or mystery or hunting, whichever) 

Hit Points: 11 -- Speed 35 -- Initiative +3
AC 15 with Studded Leather 

Elf Traits: Proficiency with Long sword, short sword, shortbow, and longbow 
Low-Light Vision: see in dim light as well as in bright 
Keen Senses: Advantage on WIS (Perception) checks 
Fey Ancestry: Advantage on saves vs. being Charmed, and magic cannot put you to sleep 
Trance: Gain the benefit of a long rest from 4 hours of meditation. 
Fleet of Foot: Add(ed) +5 feet to speed 
Mask of the Wild: Can try to hide when only lightly obscured by nature. 

Background: Commoner (Profession: Forester) 
Bkgd. Skill Proficiencies: Animal Handling, Athletics, Survival 
Bkgd. Tool Proficiencies: Artisan's Tools (Fletcher), Gaming Set, Mounts (land) 

Class: Ranger 
Class Skill Proficiencies: Nature, Perception, Stealth 
Class Saving Throw Proficiencies: DEX, WIS 
Class Tool Proficiency: Mounts (land)_ changed to:_ Artisan's Tools (Bowyer)
Class Feature: Tracking (auto-success in many cases) 

EQUIPMENT: 

```
Lbs.    GP    Item    Details
====    ===    ====    =======
4    2    Clothes, traveler's 
39    9    Adventurer's Kit (Pack, healer's kit, mess kit, 50 feet rope, 
          tinderbox, 10 torches, 10 days' rations, and a waterskin)
5    1    Bedroll 
3    0.5    Blanket 
13    25    Studded Leather (for AC of 13 + DEX mod (max. 2)) 
2    50    Longbow (1d8 piercing; Ammunition (range 150/600), heavy, 2-H) 
3    25    Scimitar (1d6 slashing; Finesse, Light) 
1    2    Dagger (1d4 piercing; Finesse, Light, Thrown (range 20/60) 
3    2    Light Hammer (1d4 bludgeoning; Light, Thrown (range 20/60) 
3    2    Light Hammer (1d4 bludgeoning; Light, Thrown (range 20/60) 
3    1    Arrows (20) 
3    1    Arrows (20) 
5    5    Artisan's Tools (Fletching) 
1    1    Pouch 
0.5    1    Gaming Set (in pack) 
1    0.01    Whetstone (in pouch)
```
TOTALS: 
46.5 lb. 116.51 GP 

Cash remaining: 58 GP, 4 SP, 9 CP

Wisdom (Perception) check with +2 WIS bonus, +1 Proficiency bonus, and Advantage -- Results=21 (the higher of the two rolls)  
   1d20+3 --> [10,3] = (13) 
1d20+3 --> [18,3] = (21) 

Link http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4291283/
BBCode 1d20+3=13, 1d20+3=21


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## Li Shenron (Nov 5, 2013)

tuxgeo said:


> Um, that combination gets Tool Proficiency of Mounts (land) both from background and class; should I substitute some other proficiency for one of those?




Yes, that's the current rule.


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## Shayuri (Nov 5, 2013)

Oh! Oh! Tux!

Want to be my vassal? You can totes carry my stuff!


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## tuxgeo (Nov 5, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Oh! Oh! Tux!
> 
> Want to be my vassal? You can totes carry my stuff!




Nice. . . .

Which of us are you asking -- the player, or the PC? 

I, tuxgeo, certainly don't want to be Shayuri's vassal. 
My PC, Aeiyan, _almost_ certainly wouldn't be as trusted as Archiebald to handle Sulannus' precious belongings -- not that he would care to anyway, because his natural job in this party _(at least, as I see it)_ is Stealth Scout, bowman, and two-weapon fighter in close quarters, so any extra encumbrance would slow him down and make him less effective. 

Mmm. The Sindarin for "princess" is "tarien" according to an Elven_online.txt file I have; and "royal" is said with the prefix "ar-" (as in Arwen); and "elf" is said as "edhel." 
Based on that, Aeiyan would certainly address her as Tarien, or Ar-edhel, or Aranel, or other flowery speech; but his deference to her might not go too far beyond speech. He would certainly be respectful of her, though. 

I listed Aeiyan's age as 60. He could easily defer to Sulannus if her age is vastly greater than that (approaching Galadriel's), but I don't know her age (and a gentleman doesn't ask; though Aeiyan, as a Commoner, is hardly a gentleman).

My own interpretation of the Chaotic alignment includes a definitely casual approach to rank, wherein the notion of "vassal" has little or no place.* Let's see what happens during play, shall we? 


*and if I were to wear an actual tux in Aeiyan's presence (were that possible), he would be amused at my human formality and pretension. (Hell, even *I* am amused at my human formality and pretension. Yeah, I crack myself up.)


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## tuxgeo (Nov 5, 2013)

_Notabene:_ I've replaced Aeiyan's duplicate "Mounts" proficiency with "Artisan's Tools (Bowyer)" in an attempt at consistency.


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## Shayuri (Nov 5, 2013)

Hee hee, I was mostly kidding, of course. 

I have some backstory for Su, but I hadn't bothered posting it since I figured this was mostly a rules test. But no sense in not enjoying some RP while we can, eh?

Sulannus (not really following Tolkien naming nomenclature  ) is in her 80's...still in her troublesome 'teen' years in High Elf society...and has escaped the house of her father to get a taste of the world she has thus far only heard about in hearthside tales and read about in books. The House of Phaedran is an old one among the High Elves, and a strong one, though perceived to be in decline. There are not many young born to it, and as such Sulannus has been carefully sheltered from possible harm. But she prevailed upon one of her tutors to teach her some combat magic for self defense, and took advantage of a few complacent House guards and sympathetic hirelings to steal her way out of the citadel of white and gold, out of the tall trees of the high grove, and into the world at large.

Her retinue consists of the servants she trusted enough to be loyal to her to bring along. Each contributed in some way to her escape, so none are particularly eager for her to return.

She'd be rather shocked you were out and about at the tender age of 60, and will most likely enjoy lording the age difference around _a great deal._ She _never_ gets to be the 'old one' at home.


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## wedgeski (Nov 5, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Her retinue consists of the servants she trusted enough to be loyal to her to bring along. Each contributed in some way to her escape, so none are particularly eager for her to return.



LOL! Nice background.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm not sure we need this, but there's now a Group page for our game:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=386

You can copy your character sheet there, so that we have all of them in one place.


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## wedgeski (Nov 7, 2013)

Li Shenron said:


> I'm not sure we need this, but there's now a Group page for our game:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=386
> 
> You can copy your character sheet there, so that we have all of them in one place.



I tried to create a page for my PC but ran into permissions issues. 

I haven't used the Groups feature before so it could have been my fault, but I don't think so.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 7, 2013)

The playing thread is now up: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-Raiders-The-Wolf-s-Den&p=6214363#post6214363

Here's some House Rules I thought about. Don't worry no "rules house rules" which won't make sense if we're still playtesting the official rules, just some suggestions about how to write our post using the same format.

I think it's easier to read, if each one of you picks a different colour and uses it to highlight "spoken words and direct dialogue" by your PC. Put it in italics when it's your character's "_thoughts _" instead. I usually marked it further with "".

If you have comments or something else to say that isn't related to what you character does, says, think etc. you can put it under a 







> quote tag



I think there was a better way to do this, that creates a box of text that can be opened/closed with a click, but I don't remember the tag name...


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## Li Shenron (Nov 7, 2013)

wedgeski said:


> I tried to create a page for my PC but ran into permissions issues.
> 
> I haven't used the Groups feature before so it could have been my fault, but I don't think so.




I can't create pages either... 

I can create discussion tho. If pages don't work, we can just have a discussion thread, with one character per message.


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## Shayuri (Nov 7, 2013)

The box tag is 'sblock.'

[sblock=Example]I just said 'sblock=example', which labels the text box.[/sblock]


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## tuxgeo (Nov 7, 2013)

Li Shenron said:


> The playing thread is now up: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-Raiders-The-Wolf-s-Den&p=6214363#post6214363
> 
> < snip >
> 
> I think it's easier to read, if each one of you picks a different colour and uses it to highlight "spoken words and direct dialogue" by your PC. Put it in italics when it's your character's "_thoughts _" instead. I usually marked it further with "".




Shall we talk about which colors fit which characters (and are readable against white-or-black backgrounds)? We have a Cleric of War (Soldier), a Druid (Bounty Hunter), a Fighter (Guide), a Mage (Noble), and a Ranger (Commoner). 

Who wants which color? I would normally associate White with Druids and Grey with Rangers, but those colors don't stand out well; and Red is sort of special to the Moderators. That still leaves things like goldenrod, blue, green, darkorange, purple, teal, violet, brown, maroon, etc. Does anyone have any special preferences?

For instance, is Sulannus a blonde? Does she wear golden ornaments or charms? If so, that might inform her color. 

I think Aeiyan might speak in muted, earthy hues, but I'm open to suggesions.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 7, 2013)

LoL


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 7, 2013)

Bartleby will speak in this colour -- Teal!

Edit:  testing Dark Slate Grey. -- nope.  stick with Teal.


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## Shayuri (Nov 7, 2013)

I think Sulannus will speak in imperial purple.

As for the description, I'll include this in my forthcoming intro post, but she super-saiyan-sindarin, with long golden hair and milky clear skin and big blue eyes...ethereal, untouchable beauty; flowing, iridescent wardrobe; constant New Age music accompaniment wherever she goes.

The works. I'm going whole hog on this.

...

And apologies in advance...I plan on having Su outgrow her early obnoxiousness quickly, but I wanted to establish it as a baseline.


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## Jimmy Disco T (Nov 7, 2013)

I'll take Blue as my colour if that's ok 

I also ran into permission issues when I tried to add my character sheet to the Group page but it could well be me doing something wrong.

Now, off to the playing thread!


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## wedgeski (Nov 8, 2013)

Rejik will employ the colour green, to match the stain of his teeth. He has an appalling grass-chewing habit.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 11, 2013)

Hey, Li Shenron!  I've got a question about damage and subduing opponents. 

The play test rules make no reference that I know to subduing an opponent or to non-lethal damage. As I read it, that means that to subdue/capture an opponent, you need to use the grapple rules (When I've played before, I'll admit we ported the possibility of declaring an attack non-lethal). 

I know the purpose of this game is to test the rules, so  it makes sense not to ask for subdual damage (i.e. a house rule). Still, if (when) it comes to it, Bartleby may tries to capture a guard (or someone else), and unless you suggest otherwise, I'll use the grappling rules.  

Actually, as I type this, the absence of a clearer rule makes it less likely that will happen.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 11, 2013)

Kobold Stew said:


> Hey, Li Shenron!  I've got a question about damage and subduing opponents.
> 
> The play test rules make no reference that I know to subduing an opponent or to non-lethal damage. As I read it, that means that to subdue/capture an opponent, you need to use the grapple rules (When I've played before, I'll admit we ported the possibility of declaring an attack non-lethal).
> 
> ...




I don't have the rules now, I'll check them tonight. If they don't mention subduing an opponent, we're going to have to adapt the current options to that, or make something up.

On the top of my head, you definitely need to be in melee to do that (no ranged subdue, unless a specific ability lets you do that) but there could be a way using weapons rather than grappling only, possibly with some penalty (but basically it'd only apply to the last strike).


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 11, 2013)

Cool -- no rush! If you find something you're happy with, that's great. (If not, that's fine too!)


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## Li Shenron (Nov 11, 2013)

Knocking a Creature Out

"_Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow.  When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable._"

That's really simple  Basically, you can drop anyone unconscious without killing it, as you like. 

I would still say that you can't do it just that easily with ranged weapons or spells, but basically any melee weapon will do (e.g. striking with the shaft of a spear, the flat edge of a sword, the pommel of a dagger etc.).

Then you probably have it easy to tie your prisoner and wake him up with water on its face for example. I can rule he becomes conscious with 0hp.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 11, 2013)

Ha!  how to play, p. 23. I don't know how I've missed that. Thanks so much.

Kudos!


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## Shayuri (Dec 20, 2013)

Argh, what's the penalty for firing a ranged attack into a melee? I think I'm missing something horribly obvious. 

Also, are all the goblins in melee, or are there any hanging back Su can shoot with impunity?


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## Li Shenron (Dec 20, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Argh, what's the penalty for firing a ranged attack into a melee? I think I'm missing something horribly obvious.
> 
> Also, are all the goblins in melee, or are there any hanging back Su can shoot with impunity?




There is no penalty for ranged attacks into melee AFAIK, but in some cases (e.g. standing directly between attacker and target) your allies or some other enemy can provide some degree of cover, although it seems there's no explicit chance of hitting the cover.

No goblins are in melee at the moment, also see the clarification I've just added to the in-game thread: "The two hobgoblins guarding the bottleneck are now dead, but thanks to the new light sources you all caught glimpsed of more of them hiding in the cave beyond."


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## Shayuri (Dec 30, 2013)

Okay, another question. Hee hee.

Is there an 'opportunity attack' mechanic? Sorry, I can only post from work right now, and I haven't got the files here to check it.

Basically, can Sulannus walk through the long-spear spaces now that their readied actions have triggered, and attack the archers? Or will they stab her if she does that?

And if she casts a spell within their reach is she similarly doomed for a stabbin'?


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## ccooke (Dec 30, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Okay, another question. Hee hee.
> 
> Is there an 'opportunity attack' mechanic? Sorry, I can only post from work right now, and I haven't got the files here to check it.
> 
> ...




Going by the rules... opportunity sttacks happen when you leave a threatened zone (not a threatened *square* as in 3e and 4e). They also take up a reaction. Since triggering a readied action also uses up your reaction, you can expect to be safe from AoO from anyone who has acted out of turn. 

Spellcasting also doesn't trigger an AoO.


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## Li Shenron (Dec 30, 2013)

ccooke said:


> Since triggering a readied action also uses up your reaction, you can expect to be safe from AoO from anyone who has acted out of turn.
> 
> Spellcasting also doesn't trigger an AoO.




Seconded.


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## Shayuri (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks for the clarification!

Li, are the archers close enough together that Su can catch more than one in the area of a Burning Hands spell?

The map suggests they are, but I hate to assume. 

Sorry for the long delays here...posting from work is slow going. Should be able to get my action up tomorrow morning.


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## Li Shenron (Dec 30, 2013)

Shayuri said:


> Thanks for the clarification!
> 
> Li, are the archers close enough together that Su can catch more than one in the area of a Burning Hands spell?
> 
> The map suggests they are, but I hate to assume.




It's hard to tell precisely since we're not technically playing with a battlemap. But IMHO the whole point of not using a battlemap is very much not to get stuck in calculating distances and positions too precisely 

In cases like these, I'd rather roll some dice behind the curtains to determine how many of your targets are fully affected.

But between the current distance, your speed, and the spell range, I think you might be able to affect them all!


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 1, 2014)

As Bartleby bleeds, it might be helpful to talk about Readying an action(not for this combat, but for next one), since I think we're reading it a bit different. (You said you wanted to start a thread on it, but I feel we might as well start the discussion here).

As I see it, on your turn (i.e. when you come up in the initiative), you can choose to ready an action that will occur when a condition is met later in the sequence jun that round. If the condition takes place, it uses your reaction.

The action/reaction language means that you don't actually ever change your place in the initiative order (readying an action doesn't slow you down for the rest of the combat). It also means you are focused and can't do opportunity attacks, etc., when an action is readied. So in those two ways it seems a good rule (over previous editions).

But the turn/round distinction means that you only ever act once per round -- it's not a way to get two attack per round. That's what I see, at least, reading _How to Play_ p. 18. That's where I think we're reading it differently, since it seems that the archers are acting at the start of the round with an action readied in the previous one. 

I'm not asking us to go back and change anything (I think Bartleby will be okay, and he's been played recklessly I know), but I thought it might help for me to make clear what I was reading. 

Fun!


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## tuxgeo (Jan 1, 2014)

I thought the whole idea of the Reaction was to enable an extra triggered action per round. 

If you make an attack and then some enemy moves away from you during that same round, you get an opportunity attack against the mover, don't you? 

The readied action simply allows the order to be reversed, IMHO.

EDIT: I said that badly. What I means is, if Bartleby entered the room in the cave during Round 5, then the hobgoblins used their action from Round 4 as a reaction triggered by Bartleby's entrance to the room. The hobbos were clearly aware of the party's attack by Round 4. This means they still got their regular turn for Round 5 after Su came in -- though there were then _fewer_ of them left to take that action.


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## ccooke (Jan 1, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> As I see it, on your turn (i.e. when you come up in the initiative), you can choose to ready an action that will occur when a condition is met later in the sequence jun that round. If the condition takes place, it uses your reaction.
> 
> The action/reaction language means that you don't actually ever change your place in the initiative order (readying an action doesn't slow you down for the rest of the combat). It also means you are focused and can't do opportunity attacks, etc., when an action is readied. So in those two ways it seems a good rule (over previous editions).
> 
> ...




Not quite, as I read the rules. (And hey, I'm just being a busybody here since I'm not in the game, just watching it ;-) )
Everyone has a reaction that can be used to act outside their turn. There are standard things that can be done with a reaction such as opportunity attacks. Some class features (and probably racial and feat features) provide you with additional uses for your reaction, but you still only get one per turn.
Using the ready action creates another use for your reaction just like any other. Every use if reactions has a trigger, and you define one when you take the ready action. Outside your turn, should any trigger for a reaction occur, you can choose to spend your reaction and do the relevant thing. So you can make an opportunity attack with a readied action - or cast the shield spell. But if you do one of those, you've spent your reaction and can't use your readied action if the trigger come up later.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 2, 2014)

ccooke said:


> Not quite, as I read the rules. (And hey, I'm just being a busybody here since I'm not in the game, just watching it ;-) )




Ha!  cool!

I'm with you most of the way, but we seem to split here:


> Outside your turn, should any trigger for a reaction occur, you can choose to spend your reaction and do the relevant thing. So you can make an opportunity attack with a readied action - or cast the shield spell. But if you do one of those, you've spent your reaction and can't use your readied action if the trigger come up later.




In the passage I cited, there seems to be two relevant factors:

a) 







> you forgo your action on your turn to take an action *later in the round* using your reaction




b) 







> if the trigger never occurs … you simply wait for your next turn.




By my reading of (a), we need to read (b) as "if the trigger never occurs [later in the round]".

I find this interesting, because each of us has read this and thought it was natural, but have come to different conclusions.


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## tuxgeo (Jan 2, 2014)

Not relevant to the current discussion of Readied Actions, but I wanted to post this anyway: 

In the IC thread, I messed up the formula for my PC's hammer attack, using d8 instead of d4 for damage. I realized that I didn't have it listed in the character sheet I put up online; and I realized that was because I hadn't figured it out yet. So here's this about Aeiyan Athelmar: 

* ATTACKS (LEVEL 1) * 
-> Longbow: 
1d20+4;1d8+3
-> Scimitar: 
1d20+4;1d6+3
-> Dagger: 
1d20+4;1d4+3
-> Light hammer, THROWN: 
1d20+4;1d4+3
-> Light hammer, MELEE: 
1d20+3;1d4+2

Overall, he gets +3 for DEX but +2 for STR; and the +1 Proficiency bonus only applies to the attack roll, not the damage roll.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 2, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> By my reading of (a), we need to read (b) as "if the trigger never occurs [later in the round]".
> 
> I find this interesting, because each of us has read this and thought it was natural, but have come to different conclusions.




Our confusion may be because of different ways to see what a "round" is.

Not sure, but I think you are thinking of ROUND = starts with the turn of the highest-init creature, ends after the turn of the lowest-init creature.

The others are thinking of ROUND = one interval between any 2 consecutive turns of the same creature (provided it doesn't change init) OR starts at any init number, ends at the same init number next time. Sort of a "moving window".

The problem is, the designers themselves get confused all the time, some of them think in the 1st way, others in the 2nd.

The text under Combat -> The combat sequence -> The round, seems to support your view, but the *Ready an Action* mechanic is *IMHO* clearly meant to work for cyclic initiative. It makes little sense that the lowest-init character cannot ready any action, which would be the result of the 1st interpreretation.

With the 2nd interpretation (which I'm using) you don't really get 2 action per rounds. More precisely, you _do_ get 2 actions in "round 5" if you seen rounds your way, but you still get as many attacks as everyone else during the battle, which is what matters, because you delayed the first attack.

In some cases, readying has an edge. Ours was such case, because they just happened to be lucky that the first foe entering the inner cave was immediately before them in initiative term (but clearly, it could have been Aeiyan and they would not have any benefit). However, the price they paid was that they actually wasted a lot of turns, when they were waiting for the trigger, while they could have attacked. 



Kobold Stew said:


> It also means you are focused and can't do opportunity attacks, etc., when an action is readied. So in those two ways it seems a good rule (over previous editions).




This is actually not explicitly mentioned in the current packet.

It would make sense that while readying you cannot take other reactions. 

However, it would also make sense that you could, but in that case obviously you lose the readied action because you're taking another reaction and you can only take one per turn.



tuxgeo said:


> I thought the whole idea of the Reaction was to enable an extra triggered action per round.






ccooke said:


> Using the ready action creates another use for your reaction just like any other.




Both of view propose an original view, which IIRC leads to the same conclusions as mine, but it's a bit gamist and thus more complicated 

I just see "Readying" as a mechanic very much grounded in _narrative_: it represents someone waiting/delaying a little bit.

Note that currently the rules are restrictive about what actions you can delay: "attack, grapple, hustle, knock down, or use an item". It sounds like a specific list, and doesn't include spells (although some spells can be cast as reactions, therefore IMO here the rules should be more explicit).

Anyway, the Ready an Action rule clearly doesn't want to allow you anything more than you could normally do in the course of one "moving window" round, i.e. 1 action + 1 move + 1 reaction. Actually, it lets you do _less_, because technically the Readying itself costs your action and your attack costs your reaction (you can still move before Readying), while if you attack normally at your init, you still have your reaction for later.


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## wedgeski (Jan 2, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> Anyway, the Ready an Action rule clearly doesn't want to allow you anything more than you could normally do in the course of one "moving window" round, i.e. 1 action + 1 move + 1 reaction. Actually, it lets you do _less_, because technically the Readying itself costs your action and your attack costs your reaction (you can still move before Readying), while if you attack normally at your init, you still have your reaction for later.



This is exactly my reading of the Ready an Action rules. Readying comes with a price, and often during table D&D, Readying can cause you to "lose" an action altogether (i.e. the triggering effect never occurs), causing your next turn in the initiative order to arrive with you have done nothing for a round except stand there like a lemon waiting for something that didn't happen! I note it also doesn't affect your Initiative order.

This is all fine, IMO. Readying can be deadly (especially with multiple foes acting in concert to achieve flanking etc.), and should come with an opportunity cost.

There is no interpretation of Ready that causes you to gain a triggered action as well as your normal actions, as far as I can see.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 2, 2014)

Hey everyone!  This is a good discussion! 



Li Shenron said:


> Our confusion may be because of different ways to see what a "round" is.
> 
> Not sure, but I think you are thinking of ROUND = starts with the turn of the highest-init creature, ends after the turn of the lowest-init creature.




That's the definition I see on p. 9 and 15. yes. 



> The others are thinking of ROUND = one interval between any 2 consecutive turns of the same creature (provided it doesn't change init) OR starts at any init number, ends at the same init number next time. Sort of a "moving window".
> 
> The problem is, the designers themselves get confused all the time, some of them think in the 1st way, others in the 2nd.




Can you give an example of the confusion?



> The text under Combat -> The combat sequence -> The round, seems to support your view, but the *Ready an Action* mechanic is *IMHO* clearly meant to work for cyclic initiative. It makes little sense that the lowest-init character cannot ready any action, which would be the result of the 1st interpretation.




That is a consequence of my reading, yes. 



> With the 2nd interpretation (which I'm using) you don't really get 2 action per rounds. More precisely, you _do_ get 2 actions in "round 5" if you seen rounds your way, but you still get as many attacks as everyone else during the battle, which is what matters, because you delayed the first attack.
> 
> In some cases, readying has an edge. Ours was such case, because they just happened to be lucky that the first foe entering the inner cave was immediately before them in initiative term (but clearly, it could have been Aeiyan and they would not have any benefit). However, the price they paid was that they actually wasted a lot of turns, when they were waiting for the trigger, while they could have attacked.




I see how it was beneficial this round, no doubt. But I'm not really talking about this combat (which is why I moved it to this thread!).  



> This is actually not explicitly mentioned in the current packet.




My inferences, spelled out.



> It would make sense that while readying you cannot take other reactions.
> 
> However, it would also make sense that you could, but in that case obviously you lose the readied action because you're taking another reaction and you can only take one per turn.




Yes, here we're on the same page. If you use your reaction for something else, then it isn't available for the trigger emerging from your choice to ready an action. 

This is an interesting discussion. No one's suggesting anything unreasonable. Thanks!


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## ccooke (Jan 2, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> By my reading of (a), we need to read (b) as "if the trigger never occurs [later in the round]".
> 
> I find this interesting, because each of us has read this and thought it was natural, but have come to different conclusions.




I can see your reading, but (obviously!  ) I don't agree with it.

For me, the issue comes in three parts - Clarity, Gamist and Narrative, if you will.

On the side of clarity, if the rules mean you can't take other reactions they should say so. As currently written, they do not.

On the side of gamism, the Reaction mechanic is compositional; many possible triggers from many different sources, but only one action you can take. The cost of readying an action is clear: You forego your action on your own turn to create a new trigger for a reaction that *may not* come up. Whether it comes up or not, you have given up your action on your turn. If you choose to use a different reaction, your action to ready an action was wasted.

Unfortunately the rules as written are unclear enough to support both our viewpoints and probably several more 

The reason I end up thinking the way I do is the narrative, though:

Let's say you're a melee/spellcaster who has the Shield spell prepared today. You're setting up an ambush by a door and ready an action: "When someone comes through the door, I'll attack them". During the next turn, an archer pops out of a window above you, spots you and shoots off an arrow. Are you able to take your Reaction to cast the Shield spell or not?
If you are able to take the reaction, then you do so. The arrow misses, but you are unable to use your readied action to attack when someone comes through the door.
If you are not able... then you are so focussed on your readied action that you are unable to defend yourself. Surely, then, attacks against you should have advantage? That seems an unreasonable level of focus to me. 
Note that there are many other common talents that use a reaction: the Defender fighting style allows you to use your reaction to impose disadvantage on an attack, for instance. Would an intelligent, tactical fighter be so focussed on a readied action that they are unable to use their shield the way they have been trained to? 

To me, it only makes sense if you can use any reaction that has a valid trigger.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 2, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> Can you give an example of the confusion?




Yes I actually already had it in mind while writing my previous post...

"How to play", Page 16, paragraph "Your Turn", first lines of the second column (emphasis mine):

_You can take only one reaction *per round*.
When you take a reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your *next turn*._

Here we have two _consecutive_ sentences that seem to refer each to one of the opposing views 

Let's say your Init is 10. 

Going by the first alone, if you take a reaction when Init count is 15, you can't take another when Init is 5; but if you take the first reaction this round at 5, you can take another next round at 15, for a total of 2 between your turns. This also creates the odd result that an intermediate Init score is better than both a very high and a very low Init score.

Going by the second alone (what I'm using right now) guarantees max 1 reaction between your turns, always. Higher Init score is always better at the beginning of the combat, but then everything becomes cyclic (i.e. there is no special narrative meaning of the start or end or a round) and it's not advantageous in absolute terms anymore.

Going by both at the same time (but using your meaning of "round") is actually not that different from going by the first alone IMO, just more complicatedly worded and yielding some occasional weird corner case (e.g. if you are second-last in Init score and you have already taken a reaction in "round N", you can't take a reaction if provoked by the last character but you can take a reaction if provoked by the next character because it's already "next turn".

Because of these considerations, I think their intent is round as "moving window", like it was in 3e. 



ccooke said:


> For me, the issue comes in three parts - Clarity, Gamist and Narrative, if you will.
> 
> On the side of clarity, if the rules mean you can't take other reactions they should say so. As currently written, they do not.
> 
> ...




To reiterate what I wrote before, I think the main reason for having rules for Readying an Action in the game is _narrative_, which is why I come to the same conclusions as you.

As for the issue of (a) allowing to lose the readied action to take a different reaction VS (b) not allowing to take any other reaction while waiting for the trigger, I would probably prefer (a) over (b), but in either case I definitely wish the designers make a decision and spell it clearly.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 2, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> In the IC thread, I messed up the formula for my PC's hammer attack, using d8 instead of d4 for damage. I realized that I didn't have it listed in the character sheet I put up online; and I realized that was because I hadn't figured it out yet. So here's this about Aeiyan Athelmar:
> 
> * ATTACKS (LEVEL 1) *
> -> Longbow:
> ...




Good, good!

Note that all your PCs stats and descriptions were copied to this page:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=386

I am using that page as a reference since it's so much easier with all the PC on the same page. 

So if any of you notices that their PC need some update, we should put the updates into that page... 

I suggest that each of you, whenever you have time, goes to that page, copies the whole character and paste it into your own _reply_ to the discussion, so that from now on each player can directly edit her PC's information.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 3, 2014)

Interesting. We all know how we read the rule now. I'm fine continuing as is. 



Li Shenron said:


> Going by both at the same time (but using your meaning of "round") is actually not that different from going by the first alone IMO, just more complicatedly worded and yielding some occasional weird corner case (e.g. if you are second-last in Init score and you have already taken a reaction in "round N", you can't take a reaction if provoked by the last character but you can take a reaction if provoked by the next character because it's already "next turn".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Shayuri (Jan 6, 2014)

Hee hee...

I really need to put the playtest files on a thumbdrive and bring them here with me, it seems, cuz this is where I do my posting from. I hate to waste time on questions, but given that Sul is in a very bad place for a wizard, I do feel I need to be acquainted with this particular tactical subsystem.

So...I am still fuzzy on opportunity attacks. 

What I'd like for Su to do is get to safety, and possibly attack, in that order.

Now in 3e, there was a manuever called Withdraw that allowed you to safely exit a threatened space without incurring an AoO. In 4e there was a Shift. Does 5e have anything like that?

Also, spellcasting no longer incurs an AoO, but does ranged weapon fire? My only combat spell left is Ray of Frost, which is a ranged attack roll as well as a spell.

Thanks for your patience, y'all. I'm really hoping to spare Su a drubbing from Hobgoblin Chief mace for at least one more round.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 6, 2014)

I hope the others will correct me if I'm wrong!



Shayuri said:


> What I'd like for Su to do is get to safety, and possibly attack, in that order.




I don't think this is possible in one turn without some special ability, see below why.



Shayuri said:


> Now in 3e, there was a manuever called Withdraw that allowed you to safely exit a threatened space without incurring an AoO. In 4e there was a Shift. Does 5e have anything like that?




There is an action called *Disengage* (move up to half your speed), but it is an *action* and you only get one per round, so it will replace your attack action or your spellcasting action, it won't replace your move action.

However, check if you have some *swift* spells: these don't take the usual action, but can be cast together as another action (in which case, the Disengage action).



Shayuri said:


> Also, spellcasting no longer incurs an AoO, but does ranged weapon fire? My only combat spell left is Ray of Frost, which is a ranged attack roll as well as a spell.




No AoO for spellcasting itself or for shooting ranged weapons in melee anymore!

Indeed your situation is tricky, because to withdraw you can move to 1.5 your speed (Disengage at half speed + move at full speed), but the opponents will be able to reach you and attack (move at full speed + Charge at full speed). But this is the kind of things it's good to playtest, to get an opinion on how 5e works!


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## Shayuri (Jan 6, 2014)

Can she Disengage and retreat back behind the boulders? Or would that let the spearmen stab her?


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## Li Shenron (Jan 6, 2014)

Shayuri said:


> Can she Disengage and retreat back behind the boulders? Or would that let the spearmen stab her?




I would say that in order for Sulannus to go back to the outer cave she would have to pass through the melee between the spearmen and your allies. We're not really keeping track of exact positions, but roughly I could imagine that the distance covered while _disengaging _ (i.e. half your speed = 15ft) will get you there but probably not past the spearmen's 10ft reach. 

OTOH, we can assume she could at least take the second move in a way that passes only through the reach of one of the two spearmen but not both.

All in all, I think this is quite the essential purpose of opportunity attacks rules in 5e: to give a risk/penalty for anyone trying to either run away from the enemies, or run past them (whatever they are trying to reach beyond them).

I shouldn't suggest you what to do  but based to what I just wrote, I'd say that if you take this course of action, you'll trigger only _one_ opportunity attack, and Tock could use his _Protection Fighting Style_ to cause disadvantage to such attack.


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## Shayuri (Jan 6, 2014)

Thanks. That does seem like a much better option than letting the hobgoblin boss whale on me, with the fighters pinned down behind the spears. 

It's also very in-character at the moment, which is always a bonus in situations like this.


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## tuxgeo (Jan 6, 2014)

Shayuri said:


> Can she Disengage and retreat back behind the boulders? Or would that let the spearmen stab her?




My take on the matter: It would be only *one* spearman in any interpretation, because Bartleby has already knocked the other one out (using a scimitar-handled uppercut to the jaw). 

I guess it depends on the exact distances, which we aren't bothering with; so if that's what Su would do based on her inner character, then I would personally think she should go for it. 

Li Shenron has already said Su can disengage a distance of 15 feet. The question in my mind is whether that would take her to the chokepoint and into total cover from any longspear attack. However, I also imagine that a disengagement of 15 feet _might_ take her adjacent to Tock, where he could easily protect her a bit. 

[Of course, that's not what Aeiyan would think Su ought to do; instead, he would think she ought to drop the one remaining archer using whatever at-will spell she has (he might not be aware that it is called "Ray of Frost"), and then for Su to call for Tock to shield her. However, Aeiyan doesn't have any telepathy to tell her that, and I'm fairly sure Su wouldn't take his advice anyway, because "_lowly wood-elf_."] [Besides, Tock acts _after_ the Hobgoblin chief this round, so he wouldn't get there in time to block an attack -- though perhaps neither Aeiyan nor Su know that.]


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## Shayuri (Jan 6, 2014)

Yeah, that would require a lot more guts than Sulannus is feeling right now. Oodles.

I realize it's not, strictly speaking, the best tactics, but if there's any plausible route for escape she'll be taking that now, thankyouverymuch. 

Will post asap!


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## Li Shenron (Jan 6, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> My take on the matter: It would be only *one* spearman in any interpretation, because Bartleby has already knocked the other one out (using a scimitar-handled uppercut to the jaw).




Right! I forgot about that...


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## tuxgeo (Jan 24, 2014)

*Fine-tuning, or "dialing in," the roleplaying*

In the in-character thread, I had my PC wax eloquent. Maybe it's too much. For reference, here's the whole post: 



tuxgeo said:


> "Ah," Aeiyan replies. "Fairly spoken. The frost had an effect that appeared mighty; but that was a snap-impression on my part, formed in the midst of battle. I am still learning some of these things."
> 
> Aeiyan looks at the rest of the party, then rests his gaze on Tock. "Whither next, and when? Are we binding prisoners, or resting, or scouting? If we push on now, I might be less effective taking point than before."
> 
> "And Bartleby shouldn't take point, in my opinion, since he wields the last of our magical healing -- if I heard aright -- so we don't want him dropping first again."




My question for the group is this: Is that too much eloquence for an INT 11 PC? Would a ranger from the backwoods speak so? Should I have had Aeiyan leave it to Rejik, the tactical leader, to begin the conversation about who takes point, and what resources are available? (If I'm going to second-guess myself, I might as well do it off-camera.)


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## Shayuri (Jan 24, 2014)

It doesn't jump out at me as obvious out of character.

Intelligence is not a strict or straightforward characteristic, and while it can be related to vocabulary, it doesn't have to be a 1 to 1 correlation. I know plenty of people who speak quite eloquently, but aren't necessarily rocket scientists. 

In short, my take on it is that an INT of 11 is pretty smart...as smart as most of us would be IRL. So in general, if you can think of something, it's likely your character can too (general technology level and education notwithstanding of course).

It's not until INT scores that incur a penalty that I'd typically start suggesting folks 'dumb down' for a character.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 24, 2014)

For me, it sounded great.  I'm making choices about Bartleby as well -- it's amazing how easily a faux-Scots accent can creep into what I am thinking, and I'm trying to keep that our completely. 

Racial stereotypes are embarrassing. 

So stay true to your instincts!  We're all here to have fun.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 24, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> My question for the group is this: Is that too much eloquence for an INT 11 PC? Would a ranger from the backwoods speak so? Should I have had Aeiyan leave it to Rejik, the tactical leader, to begin the conversation about who takes point, and what resources are available? (If I'm going to second-guess myself, I might as well do it off-camera.)




I think that's OK! Int 11 is average human intellect, which means quite clever in any case.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 24, 2014)

re: what's just happened in the IC thread:

This feels like dirty pool. 

No initiative, no rolls, crit damage, from an opponent who has been defeated. 

This only makes sense to me as a punishment for trying to keep the conversation rolling, or as a punishment for the character for actually speaking the language -- that it would have been better if he could not communicate. PBP is so slow, with everyone in different time zones. You're the ref, but the signal this sends is that you don't want us to answer one another in comments. That you don't want us to parley with characters you present or to talk with each other. Lesson learned, I guess.


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## Shayuri (Jan 25, 2014)

I don't know that I agree that it feels like retaliation...but it would have been nice to have gotten a chance to react or see it coming.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 25, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> re: what's just happened in the IC thread:
> 
> This feels like dirty pool.
> 
> ...




Sorry if it felt like that! I had some draft "tree of events" written down to cover different possible outcomes of the battles, depending on both your decisions and battle randomness (especially who would be the last hobgoblin standing, there were some of them who would have reacted quite differently to different approaches). This last hobgoblin was the most complicated because it was the most tragic (something along the line "mother of a chieftain partly responsible for the inevitable extinction of their tribe"). Basically desperate, she would have let you kill her easily in that short window of time OR she could have been persuaded to cooperate if sympathized with BUT she would have attacked suicidally if mistreated. Not sure if this makes enough sense, but it was the canvas I planned to follow.

It was your description of Bartleby's actions that caught me off guard: he slammed her, then he turned away to give the potion, then turned back to continue interrogation. This quite vividly reminded me of something seen many times in movies... turning away, and as turning back meeting with sudden reaction. I just thought to go narratively here instead of following a detailed procedure (it would have been different if we were still in the initiative sequence) also because, in a sense, had I followed strict rules here then perhaps I should have done the same when you slammed her, e.g. given her also a chance to see it coming and act first. But be sure, I wouldn't have gone rules-free if I didn't know already that her attack's maximum effect would have never killed you. The "price to pay" for choosing the physical threatening route was supposed to be merely losing her as a source of information.

But that said... I'm not sure I like it myself, how I have handled this case! So if you want a more by-the-rules approach, just let me know and I will always do that in the future!!


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## tuxgeo (Jan 25, 2014)

Re: guidance for the DM -- I've been hesitating a good part of an hour before posting. Partly that's because Li Shenron seemed to be asking Kobold Stew individually -- and it's not my place to speak for KS. 

Here's my position: this is only my second PbP game ever. If fact, aside from playing around with D&D 3E and 4E at home alone, this is only my fifth D&D game ever. (I participated in a Game Day; played one LFR organized session; and took part in an Encounters activity for 5 weeks in 2013.) 

The result of my lack of experience is that I don't know what the DM is supposed to be doing. (I'm still trying to read through the 4E DMG2; it's slow going for me.) 

So, given that I don't feel comfortable saying how the DM should act, why am I posting this? Answer: merely to say that I had blithely assumed that the first encounter would be filled with generic mooks; for them to turn out to have individual personalities was an intriguing surprise. I think I like it, but I'm not sure. More data are needed.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 25, 2014)

No need to change -- and no worries. 

We're all exploring here. I hadn't thought of my interrogating her as an attack, because I thought she had been registered as "defeated" -- i.e. we were out of combat, XP totalled, and you were giving us the opportunity to engage socially and move on. 

Thanks for taking my concern in the spirit it was intended. As I say, lesson learned.

EDIT: simulpost with Tuxgeo!

I agree that I was looking forward to the interaction with the character; Bartleby has manacles, and it was my hope that the NPC would live. 

I hope we're all good.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 26, 2014)

I will try to handle this transition between combat and interaction better next time!

One note about XP given... basically this is just the total from the Bestiary entries, divided by 5 PC. 

By the book, this encounter qualified as "tough" for 1st level PCs, or possibly even more since you were outnumbered 2-to-1 (according to the rules, when outnumbered, the DM should consider the encounter one step harder, but there is no step beyond "tough"), although this is a little debatable because you managed to catch the first couple of enemies on their own, before they all regrouped.

That said... 50XP is quite few! I was aware that a lot of playtesters reported that monsters are weak at this stage, which is why I went with a "tough" encounter without fear. But then I checked the XP, and this does not feel in line with the "1st level should be over in one gaming session" idea, because I have some serious doubts that in a tabletop game we could go through 5 such encounters. But maybe I'm wrong, and we really could... it's not easy to compare the time it takes on PbP with the time it would take in a live game.



tuxgeo said:


> I had blithely assumed that the first encounter would be filled with generic mooks; for them to turn out to have individual personalities was an intriguing surprise. I think I like it, but I'm not sure. More data are needed.




That is just something that I can't resist from doing  Ideally, _all_ the intelligent creatures in my fantasy setting would have a name and own identity.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 26, 2014)

Happy 40th anniversary of D&D, everybody!


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## Li Shenron (Jan 27, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> Happy 40th anniversary of D&D, everybody!




Thanks, you too!

---

So I've found something to discuss shortly. 

For this hobgoblin encounter, I decided to roll treasure randomly to see how the guidelines work.

I checked those guidelines and _I am not sure_, but I thought I should apply "chest" treasure type of level 1, because the encounter is of the lair type and the average creatures level is ~1.2. However I also decided to add one "pouch" treasure type of level 3 (for the hobgoblin chief), and to roll that "chest" type *twice* because you were outnumbered 2-to-1. Basically I thought something along the line "if 4 hobgoblins in a lair have a chest, 8 hobgoblins have two chests, and an extra one has a pouch".

Do you think I should instead just apply "pouch" treasure type for _each monster_ in the battle? That's _a lot of rolls to make_, but maybe this is the right way?

Should I _also_ roll on one "chest" treasure, or is that supposed to replace the "pouch" type?

The "problem" is that rolling in that way above (two 1st-level chests + one 3rd level pouches) I got... *nothing* except one miserable healing potion!


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## wedgeski (Jan 27, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> Happy 40th anniversary of D&D, everybody!



I didn't get to celebrate.  Stupid work so I can earn money to do stuff!

I should check this thread more often, sorry I missed the debate on the "combat to social" transitions.

I haven't got much to add except that we should all accept that PbP has a wealth of compromises built-in. I've run a couple and participated in many, and without exception, the need to keep the pace over-rides all other considerations. The alternative (and I've seen this) is a week of tedious back-and-forths where the DM asks the player what his character's defensive posture is, etc., and all drama is removed. I think we can trust that [MENTION=1465]Li Shenron[/MENTION] won't kill any of us with such a device? 

So, I quite liked that turn of events, but then it wasn't my guy gettin' punctured.


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## wedgeski (Jan 27, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> The "problem" is that rolling in that way above (two 1st-level chests + one 3rd level pouches) I got... *nothing* except one miserable healing potion!



I've reviewed the rules and can't fault your logic there, although the text does specifically say that if you think the treasure is inadequate, you should just throw in some magic chain mail and warhammer and give it all to the cleric. Either way a single healing potion does seem like a poor result for what I think could've been a very dangerous encounter (I would say the dice were with us).


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 27, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> Do you think I should instead just apply "pouch" treasure type for _each monster_ in the battle? That's _a lot of rolls to make_, but maybe this is the right way?
> 
> Should I _also_ roll on one "chest" treasure, or is that supposed to replace the "pouch" type?
> 
> The "problem" is that rolling in that way above (two 1st-level chests + one 3rd level pouches) I got... *nothing* except one miserable healing potion!




I think you've made the right call here, and it just happened that we got a bad set of rolls. As it turns out, we need a healing potion! The rules are very lax on this right now, and the rule of thumb is fair. 

Keeping things moving is my big hope. The problem with hard encounters is it shortens our adventuring day. We haven't said so explicitly yet (have we?) but I think we need now to take the hour's rest, whereas before we might have gone on. That means the next rest will have to be a long one.

Wedgeski -- I subscribe to the threads, which means the checking is done for me! 

And don't sell yourself short -- take the Guidance bonus when it's there! That keeps things moving too. It's an annoying rule, I think (part of why I wanted to see it in play first hand), but the spell is free and is the only way we have to get a further bonus on searches, etc.


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## Li Shenron (Jan 27, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> We haven't said so explicitly yet (have we?) but I think we need now to take the hour's rest, whereas before we might have gone on.




It's totally up to you to decide together... Let's use the current rule that says short rests last about 1 hour. As usual, there _might_ be a chance that something happens during this time, but only if it makes sense with the story, I certainly won't roll for random encounters every 10 minutes as per the dungeon exploration rules!

If you decide to camp for an hour in order to regain hit points, each of you can choose what you want to do (e.g. keep watch). OTOH you can just drink the potions (see below) and not rest, if you prefer.

But anyway, if I read the rules right, there should be no limit to how many short rests you can take in a day. So in this first rest, the injured PCs can use HD to regain HP, but the others can still take a short rest later if needed (I mean, it's not necessary that next rest will be a long one, although for those who spend their HD now, the next won't help further).



wedgeski said:


> I've reviewed the rules and can't fault your logic there, although the text does specifically say that if you think the treasure is inadequate, you should just throw in some magic chain mail and warhammer and give it all to the cleric.




Ah sure... it says so on page 42 IIRC 

BTW, this time I want at least to override my result of rolled potion, and will give you the default number of potions found (3).

Treasure can remain zero for this encounter, it won't matter much since you aren't near a place to spend money at this moment.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 27, 2014)

Fine by me. 

Somebody call it. I'm happy to drink our treasure and proceed, or to wait. First person to post in the IC thread gets to choose! I would prefer not to proceed with only 3hp however.


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## tuxgeo (Jan 27, 2014)

If I recall correctly, the most recent post in the IC thread is mine from this morning. However, I had already written Aeiyan as suggesting a short rest earlier, though others weren't interested at that time -- partly because we didn't then know that the area "around the corner" was relatively safe. 

OOC, I'm still in favor of a short rest. (Potions can be reserved for occasions where they're imperative.)


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## Kobold Stew (Feb 10, 2014)

Are we still here?

I am!


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## Shayuri (Feb 10, 2014)

Sorry, yep. Sulannus isn't really involved in the questioning...but I will make a courtesy post anyway.


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## tuxgeo (Feb 11, 2014)

Virtually here -- if not mentally here. (My mind has been straying to the Olympics, and to Morrus' "O.L.D." alpha-packet.) 

I didn't want to "bump" the IC thread soon because my own post there is the most recent one, so that would be spotlight-hogging.


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## Li Shenron (Feb 11, 2014)

If you are unsure about how to proceed, here's a small recap of the situation:

- you've looted the corpses and searched the place, the feeling you have is that there isn't much left to find in this cave

- you've completed a short rest so you're ready for (eventually) more danger

- you need something to wake up the battered hobgoblin if you want to gather some information from him, but remember that he's in pretty bad conditions, forcing too much may not get the results you want

- there isn't really much more useful tips to find out about the blocking boulder, but you know that you can move it away if 3-4 of you push it aside, so it's just a matter of when you're ready to face what's in the next "room"


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## wedgeski (Feb 11, 2014)

Definitely here!


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## tuxgeo (Feb 11, 2014)

Suggestion: according to character sheets, our Cleric knows the "Spare the Dying" cantrip, which allows a creature that has 0 hit points to recover 1 hit point (per the listing in the packet). 
That might wake up the downed hobgoblin.


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## wedgeski (Feb 13, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> Suggestion: according to character sheets, our Cleric knows the "Spare the Dying" cantrip, which allows a creature that has 0 hit points to recover 1 hit point (per the listing in the packet).
> That might wake up the downed hobgoblin.



Sorry, my mistake, I thought that was allies only. Still got a 4th Edition head on.


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## Kobold Stew (Feb 14, 2014)

Guys? I'm really not sure what's going on. 

1. We were in a context where we had a defeated hobgoblin that we were interrogating, and rather than have a social situation, our DM turned it into combat. (Possibly because of my attempts to keep things moving, granted, but we/I blew that chance). As a result, after one combat we felt we needed to take a short rest -- an hour's wait in room 1. 

2. That was literally three weeks ago (see posts starting around 151). We seem to have lost any coordinated sense of moving forward. 

3. I think the dwarf is the only character that speaks goblin. Apologies if I'm wrong on this, but Who is going to be doing the interrogating at this point? Does any one have any specific hope of particular information that they hope to get? If so, please lay it out, and make clear how they are going to communicate. 

4. It might be that we are all just too polite about killing the hobgoblin (fearing we will judge each other as a result?), or leaving it tied up (given that it might escape and come back to bite us in the ass). If that's the concern, then say so. But to say it's more merciful to kill it than to leave it in a room number 1 (when we know there are patrols and shifts, etc). just seems nuts to me. 

Kill it, or leave it, I don't care, but let's not waste time pretending we are going to talk to it if we can't or suggest spending our (much needed, after 1 encounter) healing potions on it. 

Instead, let's please move out of this room, unless someone has a real sense of what they want to accomplish.

End rant, and apologies if this is out of turn. PBP games in my experience can be great, but they need momentum, and it is very easy to lose it.


----------



## wedgeski (Feb 14, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> End rant, and apologies if this is out of turn. PBP games in my experience can be great, but they need momentum, and it is very easy to lose it.



I agree.

However, we've spent enough time dancing around this hobgoblin (and hey! I had a spell I could use!) that I want to see an interrogation play out if that's okay.

Further to your comments I'd like to suggest that we decide on a party leader. This will be someone who will take everyone's posts, distil them into a plan of action, and be prepared to make decisions and nominate PC's for appropriate tasks. This should help both the DM and keep the game moving.


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## tuxgeo (Feb 14, 2014)

Yes, Bartleby is the only one who speaks goblin. If an interrogation is going to happen, he seems suited to it. (Maybe in the "good cop" role, perhaps with Tock as the "bad cop?" I dunno, though.) 

Planning is good. Our plans might not be able to take into account the things we cannot know ahead of time, such as which of the monsters might be willing to talk and which ones will "fight-or-die" instead. (We also cannot know whether this captive has any useful information unless we ask.)

Re: Leader: Are we that coordinated? I think another encounter or two could show us who is taking the lead in which kinds of situations. 

Hmm. At the start, out of doors, Aeiyan took the lead to scout around the fortress, because that's his thing. However, he didn't take the lead in questioning hobgoblins because he doesn't do that well. Also, he followed Bartleby's lead early on: the druid had said to leave one enemy alive for questioning (in an early post as battle started), so Aeiyan acted to do that. It might be that our leadership depends on the situation.


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## Shayuri (Feb 14, 2014)

Hee hee

Well, you are all Sulannus' minions, of course. (^_^)

More seriously, I'd be fine with having her step forward. I didn't want to be obnoxious with what was essentially just a roleplaying quirk was all.

My sense is that the whole issue boils down to a split in the group between those who just want to go, and those who want to try to interrogate the goblin. Half of us are sorta kinda posting about moving the boulder, and half of us are sorta kinda posting about healing the goblin and interrogating it, and we're all nice guys and so we don't want to pee on anyone's moment so we're not really being aggressive about pushing our respective agendas, so...

Yeah.

I figure we can resolve the divide either OOC with an informal player's agreement about how to proceed...or IC by having one or more PC put their foot down and get everyone organized.

I'm good either way.


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## Kobold Stew (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks everyone -- I appreciate the input. Hope this will help us as we proceed.


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## Li Shenron (Feb 14, 2014)

If you have troubles moving forward, I can tell you something OoC. Not really suggestions, but rather clarifications:

- the last hobgoblin still alive was badly wounded, and very nearly died while unconscious; I just thought that prodding/slapping or any other physical (however _mildly_) solicitation wouldn't really wake up someone who's just almost died due to physical solicitations... You need magic to restore him concious (a healing cantrip is enough, if you have one), or maybe the Druid or Ranger could find some natural substance that would also wake him up, but it would take an unreasonable amount of time now. Therefore, the trade-off is simple: spend a spell or potion, get information on what's next (or whatever you want to ask him). I know what he can tell you, but I don't know myself how useful it will be for you for real.

- you are probably worrying too much about his reaction if woken up... he would be bound and surrounded by enemies 5-to-1

- hobgoblins also speak Common; not in every fantasy world for sure! for I just picked these from the 5e playtest Bestiary, hence they do 

- the boulder will just wait for you, you already know you can move it away if 3-4 of you push together, so the trade-off "one spell/potion for some bits of information" is really the only decision you have to make! After that, move the boulder and go on!


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## Kobold Stew (Feb 28, 2014)

Hey everyone -- are we waiting on Sulannus? Or something else? Let's git them bloodsucking buzzards.


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## Shayuri (Feb 28, 2014)

Yagh! Can't believe I missed that!

Posting asap!


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## Kobold Stew (Feb 28, 2014)

no worries!


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## tuxgeo (Mar 1, 2014)

Would it help to further this process if I were to summarize the Initiative rolls on the party's side? 

Here's this: 
19 - Bartleby
16 - Aeiyan
15 - Sulannus
5 - Tock
1 - Rejik

Further question: Does Sulannus really need to spend her recovered spell slot casting Mage Armor? Have eight (8) hours passed since the party started its assault on the fortress via the cave? If they haven't, then her previous casting of that spell is still in effect. (Or is it?) 

Sulannus did recover one spell slot (as a daily ability) during our short rest, right? (So many questions. . . .)


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## Li Shenron (Mar 3, 2014)

Sorry, I'm slow to post for a while, in the middle of a family flu outbreak.



tuxgeo said:


> Further question: Does Sulannus really need to spend her recovered spell slot casting Mage Armor? Have eight (8) hours passed since the party started its assault on the fortress via the cave? If they haven't, then her previous casting of that spell is still in effect. (Or is it?)
> 
> Sulannus did recover one spell slot (as a daily ability) during our short rest, right? (So many questions. . . .)




I agree with you, the previous _Mage Armor_ is still very much in effect, so she can use the recovered slot for something else.


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## Shayuri (Mar 3, 2014)

Oh cool. Sorry about that, was in a weird '4e' mindset where you have to recast your buffs between encounters. 

Will amend post!


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## tuxgeo (Mar 10, 2014)

Bumping this OOC thread so it doesn't die on the vine. 

It's a week to go until St. Hat-trick's Day. Do you know where you have hidden your clothing of green?


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## Kobold Stew (Mar 20, 2014)

Hey everybody -- just wondering where we are in the order.

Hope all's well.


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## Li Shenron (Mar 20, 2014)

It's Tock's turn (@Jimmy Disco T) currently, then Rejik's, and then the monsters', in round 2 of the combat.


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## Kobold Stew (Mar 31, 2014)

Are we all here? I'd be sorry to see this not continue.


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## Li Shenron (Mar 31, 2014)

I certainly am!


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## Jimmy Disco T (Mar 31, 2014)

I'm here and I've just taken my go.


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## tuxgeo (Mar 31, 2014)

I am here, and recently back from errands this afternoon.


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## Shayuri (Mar 31, 2014)

Here. Just checked the init, so I don't post early again.


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## wedgeski (Apr 2, 2014)

Hey all, I've just posted for round 3. Sorry for the delay! Still very much enjoying the game myself as well.


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## Kobold Stew (Apr 8, 2014)

Sulannus? Tock? Rejik?


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## Li Shenron (Apr 8, 2014)

[MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION] [MENTION=6749529]Jimmy Disco T[/MENTION] [MENTION=16212]wedgeski[/MENTION] we're practically finished with the stirges fight, so let's forget initiative: the first of you who posts (and doesn't miss) kills that last one, and we can move on


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## Shayuri (Apr 8, 2014)

Didn't I already post an attack too early and that's now due to happen this turn?

Seriously, I don't know why it's so hard for me to get the turns right on this.

Edit - Okay, reread stuff, and I see what happened. Li did include my action in an update, and I just missed that he'd done so, so I got confused about what turn it was, and what turn I'd accidentally posted for.

Ugh, brain. Why brain no good? Maybe eat...more...brain things.


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## tuxgeo (Apr 21, 2014)

[OOC: Did some posts somehow disappear in this thread? Did I merely _imagine_ finishing with the stirges and climbing a wall and encountering ghouls?]


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## Shayuri (Apr 21, 2014)

No, those things happened...maybe you're just not on the last page?


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## tuxgeo (Apr 21, 2014)

Actually, I posted that in the wrong thread: I went to the IC thread and didn't see anything new there, so I then went here to the OOC thread and forgot where I was, with the results you see above. 

I blame severe lack of coffee: I wasn't quite awake yet when I posted that.


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## Kobold Stew (May 16, 2014)

Hey team -- 

we seem to be slowing down!  Undead hoards attack and flee! Are we all still here and wanting to play? I sure hope so -- I've been enjoying this.


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## tuxgeo (May 16, 2014)

Oh, yeah -- I'm still here. I didn't want to jump the gun ahead of anyone else's turn, however. 

(Last turn, Aeiyan coiled his rope and stowed it in his pack, as a readied action, after Sulannus climbed up. Now, Aeiyan is going to have to advance among the boulders, probably with hammer or dagger -- because swinging a scimitar might take more room than he gets in the twisty passages little, all alike.)


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## Jimmy Disco T (May 17, 2014)

Still here but dog sitting away from home, without proper Internet, and posting from my phone at the moment. I'll post Tock's action tomorrow!


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## tuxgeo (Jun 7, 2014)

Congratulation to our esteemed DM on the recovery of his ability to post on EN World. Huzzah!


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## Li Shenron (Jun 13, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> We're madly rushing toward something like extinction in this adventure, anyway: it's now Thursday, 12 June 2014. Three days from now, our estimable DM is going away for two weeks, to return by the end of June; and 3–4 days later, the new Starter Set comes out at selected WPN stores. Simultaneously with that, the first version of the Basic game gets released as a .PDF file on the WotC site. Its content will be character creation rules for the Basic subset of the fifth edition.
> 
> If we start making player and character adjustments now, we may still be in the process of doing that when the official character-creation rules release. Personally, I don't think we still have time for even another combat before we start to look toward upgrading this play group to the adventure in the Starter Set; but that Set doesn't include Rangers or Warforged, so that's going to involve some soul-searching and possibly even discussion among us -- though I may be going too far out on a limb with that last idea!




I have been thinking about the continuation of our PbP game.

The original idea was to get a chance for trying out the last playtest rules, so as to get each of us a better opinion on 5e, if we like the system or not, before the new edition hits the shelves. 

First of all, are you still interested in the adventure, and do you want to continue playing into the 5e published rules?

I am quite sure that all of us will download and check out Basic D&D  If you want to update your PC to the Basic rules, that's OK for me, but if you want to wait and keep playing your current version, it's OK too.

As [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION] mentioned however, the Ranger will be released with the PHB about one month later (unless we get a preview), and the Warforged with the DMG quite a lot later (OTOH updating the race will be IMHO a minor work, and there's a chance the final Warforged is identical to the playtest one). 

I don't really mind if Aeiyan and Tock (or others) are updated at different times, I don't think it's a problem, the game probably works fine. So it's really up to you to decide if you prefer to update ASAP or wait, just post your new character "sheet" in the campaign's characters page.

But let's try to finish the current battle before my absence. If you do that, it will be three complete encounters behind our backs. Believe or not, _that is more I have ever seen in a PbP game as a player_


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## Li Shenron (Jun 13, 2014)

Also... we can synchronize a few things at the same time after the current battle:

- _long rest_: the PCs might be in a fairly safe location now (but take your precautions) if they decide to rest here

- _rules update_: to Basic, tho unfortunately not the Ranger and Warforged

- _level up_: going strictly by the XP, it's a bit too early, but who cares?

By doing these 3 simultaneously, I will allow you to do some backward changes to your PC if you want to. Essentially you can keep ability scores, class and race, and go straight to make a 2nd level character from scratch. You don't have to, but I will let you, especially because it might be easier to do so rather than converting your 1st level playtest PC into a 1st level Basic PC and then level up.

Eventually the only problem is that Aeiyan will need 2 updates, one to 2nd level and the other to the final version of the Ranger.


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## Kobold Stew (Jun 13, 2014)

Very happy to keep going. Given the pace we've set, there's likely at most one encounter between the Basic rules and the PhB -- I'm sure that we can be accommodating for adjustments until then! 

Bartleby, as a Druid and a Mountain dwarf will also likely not have full rules until the PhB.


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## wedgeski (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm happy to continue, and I like the idea of a 2nd-level rebuild once the basic rules are available as well. Keeps things simple (for me at least!).


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## Jimmy Disco T (Jun 13, 2014)

A rebuild with the Basic rules sounds like a good idea to me, if we can agree on what to do with my Warforged...

They seem fairly simple though: +1 STR and CON, +2 inherent AC, and Living Construct. Would it be feasible to just carry on using the playtest rules for this? Alternatively, I could just use one of the races in the Basic set and 're-skin' them as a Warforged if that's a better idea.

I leave it to our DM to advise which course of action is preferable


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## Shayuri (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm good for continuing. I'd like to see how Sulannus changes, if she does, under the actual release rules.


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## tuxgeo (Jun 13, 2014)

Tinkering with character sheets is fun. I'd like to continue as suggested. 

Here's a question: Where's the "restraint" button or lever or dial in the playtest rules? 
The reason I ask is that I would be interested to see if I can get Aeiyan to stop shooting off his mouth quite so much -- so far, he has irked Rejik by calling him the wrong religious title, and he has made Bartleby feel scolded. (However, he has managed not to offend either Sulannus or Tock verbally, so far as I can tell.) 

Also: Now I see why we weren't asked to roll initiative: it's still the previous encounter with the ghouls, hence that previous initiative order still applies. OK.


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## Shayuri (Jun 13, 2014)

Sulannus is kind of constantly subject to low-intensity offense just from having to work with you rabble, so little things don't register on her anymore.


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## tuxgeo (Jun 13, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> < snip > . . . But let's try to finish the current battle before my absence. If you do that, it will be three complete encounters behind our backs. Believe or not, _that is more I have ever seen in a PbP game as a player_




I believe we were trying to finish the current battle. Apparently we don't know how. 

Aeiyan suggested moving boulders aside as a way to cut off the side passages of the maze, thereby making the ghouls more accessible. He also tried to draw their aggravation by flipping the slab. Bartleby strode forth and called for them to come at him. Tock slashed or stabbed at the bone thrones in an attempt to draw their ire. Several players took the initiative to roll for Initiative again, thinking that might help. 

Let me attempt some humor here: How can our PCs engage two ghouls that can evade them so easily? Quote Monty Python at them? Taunt their pride? Insult their mothers? Charge back into the maze separately, yelling "Leroy Jenkins?" Pretend to take a nap? Give them a piece of string to play with? Offer them gold? Desecrate something they hold sacred? Find the hidden button and press it firmly? Retrieve the corpses they had been feeding on, dragging the corpses into the open? Light a torch and threaten to burn the (disturbed) bone seats they had built? Dance the Macarena? (That one might work! It's disturbing enough.)

Maybe yell, "Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! AAoOWooO! Hey there Little Red Riding Hood, you sure are. . . ." (OK, I'll stop.)


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## Shayuri (Jun 13, 2014)

Uh...pretty sure the ghouls just charged in to attack us?

*goes to re-read thread*


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## Kobold Stew (Jun 13, 2014)

As I said in an OOC post a few weeks ago (at end) -- my assumption is that the last combat has ended and this is a new one. Either way...


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## tuxgeo (Jun 13, 2014)

Shayuri said:


> Uh...pretty sure the ghouls just charged in to attack us?
> 
> *goes to re-read thread*




Yep, you're absolutely right: I missed Li Shenron's post #366, wherein he said the ghouls attack, and called for Initiative rolls. 

I'll head back (sheepishly? probably not) to the IC thread and give an Initiative roll for Aeiyan.


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## Li Shenron (Jun 20, 2014)

Stranded in the Alps, I was hoping to keep an eye on the game and maybe post an update or two, but the network connection is painfully slow...... I just thank you all once again for staying in the game (as I mentioned before, I played in other PbP before and I've never seen them reach three whole battles completed!) and wish you a nice midsummer! See you in July!


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## Kobold Stew (Jun 20, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> Stranded in the Alps




Poor you. 

Be well;  we'll be waiting for July.


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## tuxgeo (Jul 1, 2014)

I waited for July. It's July now. 

I hope we're all enjoying the weather wherever we are.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 1, 2014)

Yes -- Happy Canada day, everyone!


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## Li Shenron (Jul 1, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> I waited for July. It's July now.




Nice to see that you've anxious to restart! 

What do you guys think, about updating your PCs with this week's Thursday upcoming Basic rules? Now we all know exactly what classes, subclasses, backgrounds, races, spell and equipment is included in the first version of Basic. Let's check how much stuff is missing for each PC, and then we can decide if it's a good time to update or if we should wait for the PHB.

Tock can still be a Warforged as per the playtest rules, since the DMG is much farther away.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 1, 2014)

As one of the characters whose class won't be available until August, I'm fine either letting those who can do so update right away and the rest of us waiting, or (pref?) selectively updating as rules emerge. And so Bartleby will be a Basic Dwarf later the week, but will still be a play test druid until the PHB.


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## Shayuri (Jul 1, 2014)

I won't have access to the pdf until Sunday, but I'd be happy to update as of then.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 1, 2014)

(overload on the servers might mean that none of us have it until Sunday!)


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## Li Shenron (Jul 1, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> As one of the characters whose class won't be available until August, I'm fine either letting those who can do so update right away and the rest of us waiting, or (pref?) selectively updating as rules emerge. And so Bartleby will be a Basic Dwarf later the week, but will still be a play test druid until the PHB.




I'm also fine with any "hybrid" solution


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## tuxgeo (Jul 1, 2014)

Aeiyan's Ranger class also won't be available until early August. 

I expect that I will be able to adjust his racial features once the Basic game is available; but his "Commoner" background might not make it into Basic, so that's not a whole lot of updating. 

I am, however, very interested in what the final rule looks like for getting duplicate Proficiencies -- from _race_ and _background_ and _class_. 

Specifically: I would expect silos -- if you get a skill or tool proficiency duplicated, choose a different skill or tool proficiency; if you get a weapon proficiency duplicated, choose a different weapon proficiency; if you get an armor proficiency duplicated, choose a different armor proficiency. To me, it would be strange to break out of those silos by too much. For example, Aeiyan has four (4) weapon proficiencies from being an elf, and *all* of them are duplicated by his Ranger class. I doubt that WotC wants to give him an armor proficiency in exchange for any of those!


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## Li Shenron (Jul 2, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> I am, however, very interested in what the final rule looks like for getting duplicate Proficiencies -- from _race_ and _background_ and _class_.
> 
> Specifically: I would expect silos -- if you get a skill or tool proficiency duplicated, choose a different skill or tool proficiency; if you get a weapon proficiency duplicated, choose a different weapon proficiency; if you get an armor proficiency duplicated, choose a different armor proficiency. To me, it would be strange to break out of those silos by too much. For example, Aeiyan has four (4) weapon proficiencies from being an elf, and *all* of them are duplicated by his Ranger class. I doubt that WotC wants to give him an armor proficiency in exchange for any of those!




I wasn't expecting any update on handling duplicates... In the playtest, duplicate skills prof grant another skill prof in place, and that's because there's a rule saying you can customize or create your own background, while duplicate weapon/armor prof basically just overlap. But let's see tomorrow...


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## tuxgeo (Jul 3, 2014)

Confirmed, now that the rules are out: it's _another of the same type_. (And that's only in the Backgrounds.)


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## Jimmy Disco T (Jul 3, 2014)

​So, level 2 with the new Basic rules... woohoo!*

Tock v2.0*

*Str   *17 / +3
*Dex    *14 / +2
*Con    *14 / +2
*Int   * 8 / -1
*Wis  *10 / 0
*Cha * 12 / +1

*Speed: *30ft

*HD: *2d10
*HP: *17

*AC: *17 (scale mail + DEX + composite plating) 
*Init:* +2 (DEX) 
*
Passive Perception: *10
*Passive Insight:* 10

*Weapons*
Halberd        attack +5 (STR + prof), damage 1d10+3, reach, 2-handed, heavy
L. Crossbow     attack +4 (DEX + prof) , damage 1d8+2, loading, 2-handed

*Proficiencies (+2 bonus)*
*Armor*: All
*Weapons*: Simple, Martial
*Saves*: STR, CON
*Skills*: Athletics, Survival, Nature

*Special Abilities *
*Second Wind* - use bonus action to regain 1d10+CON HP, must rest between uses
*Action Surge* - additional action on top of action and bonus action, must rest between uses
*Fighting Style, Great Weapon* - re-roll 1 or 2 on damage dice with two-handed weapons
*Composite Plating* – grants additional +1 AC
*Living Construct* - Immune to disease, no need to eat or breathe, trance for 4 hours 

*Equipment *
Halberd
Light crossbow, 40 bolts
Scalemail
Adventurer's kit
10 iron spikes, hammer
bullseye lantern, 5 oil
grappling hook
2x dagger
climbers kit
35gp




Swapped out Protection weapon style (as you now can't use it without a shield)
Proficiency bonus increased to +2
Gains +1d10 HP, Action Surge
Still using playtest Warforged race and Guide background
Edit - added Passive Perception & Insight score of 10


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## tuxgeo (Jul 4, 2014)

Working on it. The new rules for the Ranger aren't included (as we knew would be the case), so I'll use the 2nd Level stuff from the latest Playtest. 

Aeiyan loses a point of INT -- but he wasn't using that INT 11 much anyway. (His new "INT 10" will serve him just fine.) 
His "Commoner" background will translate very closely to the "Folk Hero" background, with little more than the loss of one skill and one tool proficiency. 
His six skills will become four skills. ("Choose wisely.") 
(Oh, wait: that'll be _five_ skills, because he gets Perception from his race.) 

I originally didn't select any Traits, Ideals, Bonds, or Flaws for Aeiyan, so this is going to take me a while longer yet to figure out.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 4, 2014)

*Bartleby* 
NG Mountain Dwarf Druid 
Level *3*

[sblock="level 3"]Abilities:
STR 14 (+2)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 15 (+2)
INT 11 (+0)
WIS 17 (+3)
CHA 12 (+1)

Size M
Speed 25 (25 in armour, disadvantage on stealth)
AC *19* 
Init +3
Hit Points *25*

Proficiency bonus: +2
Proficiencies: Light and Medium Armor, wooden shields, druid weapons, dwarven weapons, brewer's supplies, Herbalism kit, Thieves' tools.
Saves: WIS, INT
Skills: Survival, Perception, Stealth, Investigation
Languages: Common, Druidic, Dwarvish, Goblinoid

Background (trait): custom (False Background)

Race abilities: 
* Darkvision 60'
* Dwarven Relisience (adv on saves vs. poison, resistance to posion)
* Stonecunning (doubly proficient on Int (Hist) on stone)

Class abilities:
* *Grassland* (since the mountain druid should have been a hill druid!)
* Spellcasting (DC 13)
- slots: *4* x 1st level, *2 x 2nd level* 
- *6* spells may be prepared/day 
- typical spells ready: [1] _Healing Word, Entangle, Faerie Fire, Goodberry_; [2] _Moonbeam, Heat Metal_ (+ _Pass without Trace, Invisibility_)
- Cantrips: _Druidcraft, Guidance, Produce Flame_
* *Wild Shape (1 hr/day)*
* *natural recovery (1/day during short rest, recover 2 spell slot levels) *

Equipment: Scale Mail, *+1 Shield*, Adventurer's kit, Herbalism kit, traveller's clothing, manacles, scimitar, Potion of Healing 

Weight: 109
[/sblock]
[sblock="levels 1 and 2"]
Abilities:
STR 14 (+2)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 15 (+2)
INT 11 (+0)
WIS 17 (+3)
CHA 12 (+1)

Size M
Speed 25 (25 in armour, disadvantage on stealth)
AC 18 
Init +3
Hit Points *17*

Proficiency bonus: +2
Proficiencies: Light and Medium Armor, wooden shields, druid weapons, dwarven weapons, brewer's supplies, Herbalism kit, Thieves' tools.
Saves: WIS, INT
Skills: Survival, Perception, Stealth, Investigation
Languages: Common, Druidic, Dwarvish, Goblinoid

Background (trait): custom (False Background)

Race abilities: 
* Darkvision 60'
* Dwarven Relisience (adv on saves vs. poison, resistance to posion)
* Stonecunning (doubly proficient on Int (Hist) on stone)

Class abilities:
* Spellcasting (DC 13)
- slots: *3* x 1st level 
- *3* spells may be prepared/day 
- typical spells ready: _Healing Word, Entangle, *Fog Cloud*_
- Cantrips: _Druidcraft, Guidance, *Produce Flame*_
- *Wild Shape (1 hr/day)*
- *natural recovery (1/day during short rest, recover 1 spell slot) *

Equipment: Scale Mail, Shield, Adventurer's kit, Herbalism kit, traveller's clothing, manacles, scimitar, Potion of Healing 

Weight: 109


Summary of changes into 5e:

Race: 
* loss of Armor mastery (drop in AC) 
* proficiency in brewing 
* +2 str, +1 con, -1 wis. Wow. It's now hill dwarves who get the bonus to wisdom, not mountain dwarves. 
* stone cunning completely changed; can now become lost.
--> As a thought experiment -- if Bartleby were suddenly to become a Hill dwarf, the total stat change would be only +1 con (str and wis remain unchanged, so more consistency there). He'd lose proficiency in medium armours, which would mean he wouldn't have scale mail but leather (! -- hide also possible, 2 AC lower) for a total AC change of -3! He'd then have +1 hit point. It would mean he'd be much less of the tank that I've been playing him as, much more cautious about being hit. Interesting. These changes hit the effectiveness of my metal druid; it's still possible, though.


Other:
* Prof bonus now +2
* (based on cleric holy symbol) DC for spells up as if focus were in use; focus now does other things.
* background: old bkgd gave 3 skills, mounts (tool), and 2 languages. New backgrounds only give two skills and two languages or tools: so I'll remove "search" for now -- when new rules for druids appear, there will be a second skill added from class; I'll also remove one language (Giant, since we've spoken Goblin), and change Mounts to Vehicles (land).
* *went to second level, circle of land. *

More (with PHB):
* INT save for druids
* cantrip list changed (Read magic out; Produce Flame in)
* bounty hunter completely removed. custom bkgd instead.

* questions:
1. drop Guidance for Poison Spray? (we've used Guidance a few times, but I'm happy to swap it out). 
2. custom bkgd okay ("Investigator")? Stealth, Investigation; one language and Thieves' tools*; false background (from Charlatan).

*not part of the original bkgd, but part of the long-term character design (which was to dip into rogue to get this proficiency, which wasn't possible for a druid when we began). With this, the desire to dip goes down, but still might happen. As it happens, the character does not at present have any thieves' tools, but once he gets some...[/sblock]


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## tuxgeo (Jul 5, 2014)

I'm nearly done with Aeiyan's update. Shall I edit the post I made in the Characters thread to include the new information? 

Changes: 
1. For stats, I used point-buy of 14-14-13-12-10-10, costing the new 27 points. That leaves his abilities the same, except INT becomes 10 instead of 11. 
2. Added 7 hit points (= 6 + 1), for new HP maximum of 18. 
3. Armor Class rises from 15 to 16 because of the 2nd-level Ranger class feature, "Fighting Style": Aeiyan chooses "Defense" to gain +1 AC while armored. 
At the same time, Studded Leather Armor is a wash: it goes from Medium to Light, so he adds his _whole_ +3 DEX modifier to that (not limited to 2); but the base amount of AC given by Studded goes down from 13 to 12 with the move, so the total effect of the changes to Studded Leather Armor is zero. 
4. Skills moved around, but he still gets the same ones: Animal Handling & Survival from "Folk Hero"; Athletics, Nature, and Stealth from Ranger; and Perception from being an elf. 
5. He takes the "Path of the Colossus Slayer" as his Favored Enemy at 2nd level. This gives him brief extra damage after hitting with a weapon attack. 
6. Proficiency of +2, not the +1 that I gave him at 1st level. Attacks recalculated. Light Hammers are not "Finesse," so he uses his STR for that. 
7. The cost of Studded Leather Armor rose from 25 GP when Aeiyan bought his set to 45 GP in the final rules. He got a bargain by buying when he did!

We haven't been told the XP and treasure from the room with the ghouls, so I skipped that. 
I added a Defining Event, a Trait, an Ideal, a Bond, and a Flaw, but I made them up. I didn't roll on the included Tables for those. (We can rewrite those things as needed.)


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## Li Shenron (Jul 6, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> 1. For stats, I used point-buy of 14-14-13-12-10-10, costing the new 27 points. That leaves his abilities the same, except INT becomes 10 instead of 11.




I think you can all keep the same stats as before, no need to recalc them, even if you used point-buy originally. 



tuxgeo said:


> We haven't been told the XP and treasure from the room with the ghouls, so I skipped that.




I just fast-forwarded you all to 2nd level.


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## tuxgeo (Jul 6, 2014)

I have updated Aeiyan's entry to 2nd Level in the "Player Characters" thread in the "Dungeon Raiders" group. 

Please check for accuracy as seems fitting.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 10, 2014)

Bartleby now updated to second level, here.

Sorry for the delay.


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## tuxgeo (Jul 10, 2014)

He's still listed as "Level 1" in that post.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 10, 2014)

lol. 

I'm supposed to be good a proofreading.


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## Li Shenron (Jul 10, 2014)

Hey, what do you think about filling up the official 5e character sheet with your stats (there's a fillable version downloaded with the Basic rules), and attach them to our PC gallery (or this thread)?

It could be a chance to "playtest" the character sheet as well  Or do you already know you don't like it? I can do that for you, if you prefer.


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## Shayuri (Jul 10, 2014)

Updated Sulannus to 2nd level. Fixed her to meet Basic Rules standards except in the following areas:

1) The Noble background isn't in the Basic set, and none of the provided backgrounds really capture the flavor I'm going for. I'd like to keep using it as provided in the playtest rules, but if you prefer I can switch to Sage. Her retainers outside can either just be retconned quietly away, or become simple hirelings.

2) There's no Find Familiar spell given in the Basic Set, but since I've already established that Sulannus has a hawk familiar named Sunbolt, I'd like to retain it if possible. If not, let me know and I'll pick a different 1st level spell for her book, and Sunbolt will be demoted to 'pet hawk.' 

With that in mind, here's the sheet for perusal and correction previous to posting in the RG.

*Sulannus Phaedran*
_High Elf Wizard (Evoker) 2_
*Background*: Noble (retainers)

*Str *8 -1
*Dex *18 +4
*Con *12 +1
*Int *17 +3
*Wis *13 +1
*Cha *13 +1
http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4278289/

*HP *12
*AC *14 (10 + 4)
*Prof Bonus* +2
*Init *+4

*Race *
High Elf
+2 dex, +1 int
Darkvision
Weapon Training (long/shortsword, long/shortbow)
Keen senses (trained in Perception)
Adv vs Charm, immune to magic sleep
Trance (4 hrs rest)
+1 cantrip
Bonus language

*Class *
Wizardry
Ritual Casting
Arcane Recovery (recover 1 slot w/short rest)
Arcane Tradition: Evoker
- Sculpt Spells (Omit up to 1+spell level) creatures from spell effect areas)

*Proficiencies*
Weapons: Daggers, darts, slings, staves, lgt crossbow
Tools: Gaming set, mounts (land)
Saves: Intelligence and Wisdom

*Skills*
Arcana
History

Insight
Persuasion
Perception

*Languages*
Common, Elven, Sylvan, Draconic, Dwarf

*Spellcasting *(Save DC 13)
Slots 1 - 3
Prepared
1 - Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Shield, Mage Armor, Charm Person

*Spellbook*
0 - Dancing Lights, Ray of Frost, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand
1 - Mage Armor, Burning Hands, Magic Missile, Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Identify, Shield, Charm Person

*Equipment*
Cash: 20gp 4sp 9cp

*Weapons*
Dagger, +6 atk, 1d4-1dmg, 2gp

*Armor *
None

*Gear*
Fine clothes, 15gp
Signet ring, 5gp
Mirror, 1/2lb, 5gp
Pouch, 1lb, 1gp
Component pouch, 2lbs, 25gp
Spellbook, 3lbs, free (class item)
Waterskin, 4lbs, 2sp

_Retainers carrying_
Sack, 1/2lb, 1cp
Mess kit, 1lb, 2sp
Soap, 5lb, 1sp
Tent, 20lbs, 2gp

*Familiar *(100gp)
*Sunbolt the Mighty*
Tiny Celestial Hawk
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 10+2 hp for each of your levels beyond 3rd
Speed 5 ft, Fly 30 ft
Str 2 (–4)
Dex 12 (+1)
Con 6 (–2)
Int 2 (–4)
Wis 10 (+0)
Cha 2 (–4)

*Traits*
Fly speed
100' telepathy
Share senses (1 action)
Deliver touch spell

*Retainers *(background trait)
*Hanna the Halfling Handmaid*_ (does laundry, helps dress, fusses over hair and hygiene and such)_

*Pox, the Wood Elf Messenger/errand boy* _(fetches things, carries messages, is easily impressed)_

*Human Manservant Archiebald* _(carries and maintains things, announces her, does books, organizes schedule, 

keeps the money, etc)_


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## Li Shenron (Jul 11, 2014)

Shayuri said:


> 1) The Noble background isn't in the Basic set, and none of the provided backgrounds really capture the flavor I'm going for. I'd like to keep using it as provided in the playtest rules...
> 
> 2) There's no Find Familiar spell given in the Basic Set, but since I've already established that Sulannus has a hawk familiar named Sunbolt, I'd like to retain it if possible.




I am certainly ok with these both!


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## tuxgeo (Jul 13, 2014)

Another thought: Earlier, Li Shenron had said there was another potential player who would like to join our group, and asked whether it would be alright for another PC to be in the party. 

We now find that we're lacking a Rogue. Would it be too cheesy for us to conveniently "find" a rogue just when we need one? (Of course, that would make the party 6 PCs instead of 5. . . .)


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 13, 2014)

I think if a new player wants in, that's fine, but I don't think we should insist on it being a rogue. (If I'm to give my secrets away, I think Bart isn't making it well as a druid, and I've been trying to play that; at level 3 (assuming multi class rules permit when the PHB comes out) I am expecting him to want to make the switch to rogue. That's likely happening whether the new player plays a rouge or not (though I guess it also depends on what the druid looks like in the pub!).)


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## tuxgeo (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm hoping for great things from the more advanced options of a lot of the classes, including Druid, in the PHB. 

I'm looking forward especially to Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock -- we've only seen the simplest versions of the classes in the Basic set, so there's plenty of room for amazement.


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## Li Shenron (Jul 14, 2014)

tuxgeo said:


> Another thought: Earlier, Li Shenron had said there was another potential player who would like to join our group, and asked whether it would be alright for another PC to be in the party.
> 
> We now find that we're lacking a Rogue. Would it be too cheesy for us to conveniently "find" a rogue just when we need one? (Of course, that would make the party 6 PCs instead of 5. . . .)




I won't force [MENTION=6705909]Warren LaFrance[/MENTION] into any specific character, so it will be up to him/her  only that s/he'll start at level 1.

The game is playable with or without a Rogue anyway. If wanted, any class can take such proficiency anyway, the only problem is that currently that has to be chosen at 1st level.


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## wedgeski (Jul 14, 2014)

*Rejik Fendall *

*2nd level LN Human Cleric (Soldier) 

Domain: War (Vraith) *

STR 15 (+2) 
DEX 11 (+0) 
CON 14 (+2) 
INT 9 (-1) 
WIS 16 (+3) 
CHA 13 (+1) 

*Description *
Rejik is a gruff fellow, more at home beside a camp fire than in a warm bed, and entirely ill-at-ease in high-born company. From field commander to refugee to adventurer, he has little time for the niceties and will happily burp his thanks for a good meal as actually say the words. 

Raised in a war-torn fiefdom which hasn't seen peace for generations, his calling was one of duty, not one of spirit. Unfortunately, his homeland has long-since collapsed into barbarism, and he intends to spend the rest of his life making the lawless pay for the atrocities he saw committed there. 

As a soldier he respects courage, loyalty, conscience, and obedience. He recognizes that his connection to the divine is rare and privileged, but he sees it as an act of commerce, a fair trade: _Give me power to avenge the weak, and I will shed blood in your name_. He intends to continue in this vein until his god decides otherwise. 

*Vraith* is the god of spent anger, avenged wrongs, and exhausted rage. Among his people, great deeds mean nothing unless they bring you to the very edge of your skills, to the line between what you know and what you don't. As a follower of Vraith, you should never surrender, never stop, never give up the chase. It's with this spirit of tenacity that his people, so long besieged by the great barbarian tribes of the cold plains, survived as long as they did, although since their fall, Rejik's relationship with his god has taken a turn for the ironic. Vraith has yet to show any disapproval with such flippancy.

*Personality Traits*
* Respects courage, loyalty, and following one's conscience above all else
* Doesn't understand why his god continues to grant him powers

*Ideal*
* Never give up. Never surrender. Forward is the only way. Fight to your last breath. Make them pay for it.

*Bond*
* His people are scattered and defeated, but where they meet, they will still protect each-other to the very end.

*Flaw*
* Rejik is a sucker for hard-luck cases and idiotic plans in which there is nothing left to lose.


*Combat & Vitals *
Size: M  Height: 6'  Age: 40 Weight: 175 lbs Eyes: Brown  Hair: Black 

Speed: 30 ft. (no penalty for heavy armour due to Str)

Proficiency Bonus: +2

HD: 2d8

HP: 15 (8 + 5 (2nd lvl) + 2 con)  

Proficient Saving Throws: Wisdom (+5), Charisma (+3)

AC: 18 (16 chain mail + 2 shield, +0 dex due to heavy armour) 

Init: +1 (1 dex) 

Warhammer: +4 (2 str + 2 prof), 1d8+2 (B), 1d10+2 (B, 2h) 

Javelin: +2 (0 dex + 2 prof), 1d6 (P), Range 30/120 


*Spells *
Spell Save DC: 13 (8 + 2 prof + 3 wis)

Spell Attack: 5 (2 prof + 3 wis)

Cantrips Known (3): Guidance, Light, Spare the Dying

Spells prepared (5 + 2 domain): Bless, Command, Cure Wounds,  Guiding Bolt (domain), Inflict Wounds, Sanctuary Shield of Faith (domain)

Spell slots: 3 x 1st


*Skills *
Medicine (Cleric), Persuasion (Cleric), Intimidation (Soldier), Athletics (Soldier)

*Proficiencies* 
Armor: Light, Medium, Heavy (domain), Shields
Weapons: Simple, Martial (domain)
Tools: Healer's kit, Gaming set, mounts (land), vehicles (land) 

*Special Abilities* 
* Spellcasting 
* Divine Domain
* Channel Divinity (1/rest) - Turn Undead, Guided Strike (+10 to an attack roll)
* War Priest (Domain) - Extra attack during an Attack action (can be used between moves)
* Soldier - Speciality (Officer) 

*Languages *
Common, Elvish (race) 

*Equipment* 
Chain Mail 
Shield 
Warhammer 
Javelin (4) 
Adventurer's Kit 
Holy Symbol 
Holy Water (1 flask) 
Healer's kit 
Lucky Charm (scalp of barbarian chief) 
Officer's insignia (stained purple sash, worn around the neck) 
Traveler's clothes 
Bone dice 

*Currency* 
PP: 0  GP: 49  SP: 9 CP: 0


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## wedgeski (Jul 14, 2014)

Okay, I've completed Rejik level 2 and posted him above. Observations about this process:

* Basic D&D PC's are more powerful and resilient than the last playtest packet, eh?
* I adjusted Rejik's ability scores down, in line with the standard array offered by the Basic rules.
* I used the "+1 to all ability scores" human racial trait. I'm happy to reverse that when the feat rules are available if  [MENTION=1465]Li Shenron[/MENTION] wishes it.
* Because the War domain isn't yet available RAW, I used the last playtest packet's version and will amend, if necessary, once I have the PHB. The Basic D&D version of the "Life" domain is comparable to the playtest's, so I think that's probably okay for now.
* Wow. No movement penalty for Heavy Armour as long as you meet a Str pre-requisite. At least one DM I know IRL will house rule that immediately!
* I used the "take 5" rule for 2nd level hit-points with a d8 hit die.
* Between my high Wisdom and domain, I can now prepare almost all 1st level spells due to the limited spell in the Basic rules.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 14, 2014)

If I may...
these are things I notice (practice!) -- I could be mistaken on any of them.



wedgeski said:


> HD: 1d8



2d8



> Spell Save DC: 15 (8 + 2 prof + 3 wis)



something's wrong here...



> *Skills *
> 
> Persuasion
> 
> Medicine



soldier background gives Intimidation and Athletics; you should have a third skill from Clericing.

Hope this helps?


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## wedgeski (Jul 14, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> If I may...



You may!


> 2d8



That's not what I meant by that entry, as in, "my hit die is a d8", but actually it would be more correct like this.


> something's wrong here...



Self-fail


> soldier background gives Intimidation and Athletics; you should have a third skill from Clericing.



You get two from Clericing (which is what these are). I'd neglected to add the background skills.

Thanks!


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 14, 2014)

wedgeski said:


> You may!
> 
> That's not what I meant by that entry, as in, "my hit die is a d8", but actually it would be more correct like this.
> 
> ...




glad to help.


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## wedgeski (Jul 14, 2014)

Oh and another thing...

I have put _Inflict Wounds_ on my prepared spell list. With respect to Necromancy, the rules only specifically call out _Animate Dead_ as an evil act, and given that Rejik is LN and given the nature of his faith, I don't feel that _Inflict Wounds_ is at odds with his beliefs.


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## Warren LaFrance (Jul 25, 2014)

Hi folks,  I am ready to get started and I figured I would keep it very simple and use the prefabricated characters in the starter set.  They do have aRouge in the set so if that slot has not been filled -- I can play that.. 

*Character Name:* PenelBaris Swift GoldClass / Level: Rouge/ 1
*Background:* Criminal
*Race:* Lightfoot halfling
*Alignment: *Neutral
*Passive Wisdom *(Perception): 10


*Ability**Stat**Bonus*
*Saves*Strength8-1
-1Dexterity16+3
+5 (t)Constitution12+1
+1Intelligence13+1
+3 (t)Wisdom100
+0Charisma16+3
+3

*Armor Class:* 14*Initiative:* +3*Speed:* 25 feet*Current Hit Points:* 9*Hit Dice:* 1d8*Death Saves:*[ ] [ ] [ ]
*Failures:* [ ] [ ] [ ]


*Weapon**ATK* *Bonus**DMG / TYPE*Shortsword+51d6+3 piercingShortbow (*)+51d6 +3

*Trained**Skill**Bonus**Stat*
*Proficiencies*yesAcrobatics5Dex
Light Armor
Animal Handling0Wis
Simple Weapons
Arcana1Int
Hand Crossbows
Athletics-1Str
LongswordsyesDeception5Cha
rapiers
History1Int
Shortsword
Insight0Wis
Thieve's tools
Intimidation3Cha
Playing cardsyesInvestigation3Int
Carpenter's tools
Medicine0Wis


Nature1Int
*Languages*
Perception0Wis
CommonyesPerformance5Cha
Halfling
Persuasion3Cha


Religion1Int

yesSleight of Hand5Dex

yesStealth7Dex


Survival0



*Expertise*:  When you make a Dex Stealth check or a check using thieve's tools, your proficiency bonus is doubled.  This benefit is included in your stealth skill bonus.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 25, 2014)

Warren LaFrance said:


> Hi folks,  I am ready to get started and I figured I would keep it very simple and use the prefabricated characters in the starter set.  They do have aRouge in the set so if that slot has not been filled -- I can play that..




Welcome, Warren!


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 27, 2014)

hey everyone; just to let you know that i shall be unable to post from now until Saturday Aug 2.

Li Shenron, perhaps yo can just place Bart on autopilot please? He suddenly becomes very agreeable...

Thanks.


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## tuxgeo (Jul 27, 2014)

[Three days late] 
Welcome, Warren! 

_With that kind of Stealth, it's no wonder the rest of the party didn't see PenelBaris Swift GoldClass there before!_ 

[/Three days late] 

_(really ought to subscribe to this thread, mutter, mutter, mutter)_


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## tuxgeo (Aug 7, 2014)

I seriously didn't mean to bring the game to a screeching halt like that in the IC thread when I posted the thing about the low-number progression: 4, 3, 2, and (then what?). 

Does anyone have good ideas about how we can get the game moving again? I'm thinking that any of the following might work: 
(1) Have Aeiyan or Bartleby or Tock make a Wisdom (Perception) check to see how wide the gap under the locked door is, and whether a blanket could fit under it. 
(2) Have Rejik or Sulannus make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to see whether they can detect any secret doors in the room with the lone coffin, where Aeiyan failed. (There's _no way_ Sulannus could get a 1 on that with the Intelligence modifier she has.) 
(3) Have Aeiyan and Rejik both try to break down the locked door with Strength, perhaps one helping the other. 
(4) Put Cantrips into play to turn the key in the locked door by magical remote control without taking it out of the lock -- would Mage Hand do that, or Druidcraft?


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## wedgeski (Aug 7, 2014)

Rejk's favoured way forward is just to barge the door down. 

His impatience was also genuine, as he's learned that sitting still for too long in hostile territory is never a good idea, but in a meta sense we do all need to be careful that the game isn't bogged down in meticulous searches at the cost of whatever momentum we'd started to build.


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## Kobold Stew (Aug 7, 2014)

Thanks for posting this, tuxgeo.



tuxgeo said:


> I seriously didn't mean to bring the game to a screeching halt like that in the IC thread when I posted the thing about the low-number progression: 4, 3, 2, and (then what?).




It's unfortunate that there were those three bad rolls. There will be a workaround, we just need to find it.



> Does anyone have good ideas about how we can get the game moving again? I'm thinking that any of the following might work:
> (1) Have Aeiyan or Bartleby or Tock make a Wisdom (Perception) check to see how wide the gap under the locked door is, and whether a blanket could fit under it.
> (2) Have Rejik or Sulannus make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to see whether they can detect any secret doors in the room with the lone coffin, where Aeiyan failed. (There's _no way_ Sulannus could get a 1 on that with the Intelligence modifier she has.)
> (3) Have Aeiyan and Rejik both try to break down the locked door with Strength, perhaps one helping the other.
> (4) Put Cantrips into play to turn the key in the locked door by magical remote control without taking it out of the lock -- would Mage Hand do that, or Druidcraft?




(4) is what I was thinking. Druidcraft won't (I can make the lock work less well with Druidcraft, but not turn the key). I tried to have Bartleby suggest Mage Hand, but I guess I wasn't clear enough. I am pretty sure Sulannus has Mage hand (cf post 18 of this thread), it's just a matter of an IC post to turn the lock, or to push the ky out and then pull it under the door. If the door doesn't fit, perhaps druidcraft can make the hole a bit bigger. 



wedgeski said:


> Rejk's favoured way forward is just to barge the door down.
> 
> His impatience was also genuine, as he's learned that sitting still for too long in hostile territory is never a good idea, but in a meta sense we do all need to be careful that the game isn't bogged down in meticulous searches at the cost of whatever momentum we'd started to build.




I too would like to move forward. It's happened each time the characters have taken a rest.


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## Shayuri (Aug 7, 2014)

Hm. I will take another look. Perhaps the key is _magic_...

*throws glitter*

Edit - Okay, the key is not magic. Or rather, not magic Sulannus knows. She'd need access to 2nd level spells, and have Knock in her spellbook. A cantrip is fairly limited in what it can target and how it can be targeted. 

I guess, if the GM is super generous, and Sulannus can glimpse the key in the hole, she might Mage Hand it out. But it's definitely not RAW, because a hole that small blocks line of effect by RAW.


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## Kobold Stew (Aug 7, 2014)

Sorry -- I guess I am misreading or missing something; I hadn't seen/don't see a line-of-sight restriction, only a fine-motor-skills restriction and a range restriction (and a recasting restriction). My bad.


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## Shayuri (Aug 8, 2014)

This is the paragraph I was going by, and you're right in that it doesn't specifically say line of sight...it does mention sight, but I was misremembering it a bit.

_To target someone or something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction._

My sense is that the door would constitute an obstacle for the purposes of spells being cast on things on the far side of it.

However, if the GM rules I can slip a spell through the keyhole, I certainly won't complain.


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## Li Shenron (Aug 8, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> It's unfortunate that there were those three bad rolls. There will be a workaround, we just need to find it.




There is is _always_ a workaround 



Shayuri said:


> _To target someone or something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction._
> 
> My sense is that the door would constitute an obstacle for the purposes of spells being cast on things on the far side of it.




I am not sure, but IMO the main problem wouldn't be to have line-of-sight to the key, but rather the precision AND torque required to turn it to unlock the door mechanism. I think _Mage Hand_ is mostly meant as a telekinesis effect i.e. to _move_ things rather than apply significant force/torque, but I will check it.


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## Kobold Stew (Sep 15, 2014)

Some questions for the DM from the update -- more!

So in making the transition to the new druid, I asked about dropping Guidance and the background. 



Kobold Stew said:


> * questions:
> 1. drop Guidance for Poison Spray? (we've used Guidance a few times, but I'm happy to swap it out).
> 2. custom bkgd okay ("Investigator")? Stealth, Investigation; one language and Thieves' tools*; false background (from Charlatan).
> 
> *not part of the original bkgd, but part of the long-term character design (which was to dip into rogue to get this proficiency, which wasn't possible for a druid when we began). With this, the desire to dip goes down, but still might happen. As it happens, the character does not at present have any thieves' tools, but once he gets some...




We've used Guidance, and so I understand if you'd rather I kept it; if so I'll cast it now. But I think it's a spell neither of us particularly like, and with more choice for the druid's cantrips, I'm still happy to swap it out.

The background seems legit to me RAW, but I thought I'd confirm. 

I've got a third question now, that I hadn't noticed before, that has emerged because of this thread. 

I see there's been a change in the Druid armour proficiency rules -- whereas i the play test, it was just select armours (light armours and hide), it now says proficiency in all light and medium armours but with the absolute proviso that no metal armours. 

By my read, that's a big change, because it means that the dwarves proficiency in armours does not improve what the Druid can do.  It also means that Bartleby's scale mail is no longer right. If that swaps for Studded Leather (which is apparently fine?), Bartleby's AC will go from 

Scale 14 +2 (dex) +2 (shield) = 18
Stud 12 +3 (dex) +2 (shield) = 17

so that's another point off the AC. I'll make that change, if it's alright to swap studded for scale. 

When the character started, there were two strengths with the Mountain Dwarf Druid that made it interesting -- the Wisdom bonus and the possibility of wearing armours. With the PHB, these are now gone. 


Please let me know if you are seeing things differently, or if I'm missing something. Cheers!


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## Jimmy Disco T (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi all


Just to let you know, I'm having a bit of a tricky time at the moment with family members on both sides of my family in two different hospitals for some fairly serious reasons. Posts from me may be a bit sporadic for the time being. If I'm holding up the flow of the game at any point then please by all means NPC me until I get back into the swing of things.


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## Kobold Stew (Sep 20, 2014)

Sorry to hear it, Jimmy.  Be well, and best wishes to your family.


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## Li Shenron (Sep 20, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> Some questions for the DM from the update -- more!
> 
> So in making the transition to the new druid, I asked about dropping Guidance and the background.
> 
> ...




Sorry that I noticed your post only today 

You can still swap the cantrip if you want to. I don't see any problem with that, we're still using this PbP game to better understand how we like 5e, so experimenting a bit with it is OK.

I also notice that thread with the Druid's armor restrictions. IMHO they are really dumb: we can have an evil paladin but not a druid in metal armor. This is truly dumb design. Except that since it's part of a Druid's "ethics", I demand it's just at the same level as alignment stuff is: totally irrelevant, unless you want it to be otherwise. Hence, you can wear any armor you want (and by the RAW, you're proficient in scale mail).



Jimmy Disco T said:


> Hi all
> 
> Just to let you know, I'm having a bit of a tricky time at the moment with family members on both sides of my family in two different hospitals for some fairly serious reasons. Posts from me may be a bit sporadic for the time being. If I'm holding up the flow of the game at any point then please by all means NPC me until I get back into the swing of things.




Sorry to hear that  I wish them all the best for a good recovery!


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi Team,

Please forgive the impertinence of this post. I used to enjoy this game a great deal, but I feel we've lost what momentum we had.

We have been playing with these centipedes in different ways for seven weeks of real time at this point. While once we had a real energy that was driving this narrative forward, now I feel we are spinning our wheels. I honestly have no idea how many of us are actively here, or if we are still engaged in the game or not. PBP is always slow, but this is becoming agonizing. What might have been a fun 15-minute puzzle if we were all sitting at a table has not bloated into something I no longer am interested in solving. 

I would like to keep playing (we've been at this for almost year now), but not if it means characters yelling at each other (even if it is "in character"), or Monty Python jokes. I may be alone in feeling this way, in which case you should tell me so. But I'd like to know who's still here, and who wants to continue. Once we know that, we can (please) move on.


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## Shayuri (Oct 10, 2014)

Seeing as how one of the 'pedes is a PC, we're kind of obligated to see it through.

Sorry I'm not as smart as my character, and have no real idea what to do.

There's probably something super-obvious in hindsight, but I'll be damned if I see it now. I'll just go with my original plan B and we'll see what happens.


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## Jimmy Disco T (Oct 10, 2014)

I'm still about, but my one idea about breaking the curse didn't work! I believe the PC centipede  has a clue to of some sort... Would it be possible for our DM to take brief control of them and drop a hint, just to get us going?


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 10, 2014)

I'm glad. I've just tried something else.


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## Li Shenron (Oct 10, 2014)

Shayuri said:


> Seeing as how one of the 'pedes is a PC, we're kind of obligated to see it through.




Yes, I have been trying to poll the player because I was about to take over his/her character to give you the next (big) clue how to break the curse.

But I don't know how to proceed now. Since I'm getting no response from the player, if you want, you can just leave the cursed humans/centipede to their own and continue exploring the other rooms. Or I can give you that clue


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## Shayuri (Oct 10, 2014)

Hm. I guess we can send the NPCs out the way we got in...should be fairly safe as far as we know. And Su's retainers should be keeping camp not too far off, so they can hang out there, or try to get to town if they prefer.

So yeah, I'd be happier with the clue, so that we actually have some resolution to this scenario that we've spent so much time on.


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 10, 2014)

Is communication in centipede form not viable? I finally thought I'd made a breakthrough, something that would work.


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## Shayuri (Oct 10, 2014)

Might be. Maybe that's how the clue drops?


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## Li Shenron (Oct 11, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> Is communication in centipede form not viable? I finally thought I'd made a breakthrough, something that would work.




Well I wasn't sure whether humans turned into centipedes know how to "speak centipedish", but let's go with it


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## Jimmy Disco T (Oct 11, 2014)

I'd say the talking centipede idea definitely has legs...


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## tuxgeo (Oct 11, 2014)

That idea does have legs. 

That joke is almost worse than my one about "Centipede Imposition." 

Maybe we have to read the curse backward in order to break it? 

"Scavengers for leisure
here be your treasure
as vermins are all thieves
a vermin you shall be!"

becomes: 

Eb llahs uoy nimrev a 
Seveiht lla era snimrev sa
Erusaert ruoy eb ereh 
Erusiel rof sregnevacs!

I would be a bit disappointed if that were the solution, though. It lacks elegance.


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 11, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> Well I wasn't sure whether humans turned into centipedes know how to "speak centipedish", but let's go with it




For what it's worth, I'm hoping only to speak to transformed humans, who still have their minds and are looking for ways to communicate; not to those who are by nature centipedes.


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## Li Shenron (Oct 13, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> For what it's worth, I'm hoping only to speak to transformed humans, who still have their minds and are looking for ways to communicate; not to those who are by nature centipedes.




I think you've already killed all the aggressive "true" giant centipedes.

BTW sorry that I have been even slower with progress in the last few weeks. I have RL reasons, but I admit that also I felt stuck between the difficulty in solving this curse scenario and the lack of participation from the new player, whose character would have been able to help you since the start.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 4, 2014)

Hello players  Since I'm getting no reply from Swift's player, [MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION] will take over the PC, at least for the time being.


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## Leif (Nov 4, 2014)

OOC:  Greetings, all!  This is not quite like the PbP format that I am used to, so please bear with me while I figure out where all the threads of the game are located.  Just now, I can't seem to find any of them, but hopefully that will be remedied once I have subscribed to this thread.  Ok. I've subscribed to the group now, so that helps.  But I still can't find an entry for Swift in the RG, so I'm not sure what his modifier is to an initiative roll.  I'll just make a nude d20 roll, and the DM can apply any modifiers that are correct.  I hope that's ok?

initiative (1d20=6)


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## wedgeski (Nov 4, 2014)

Hi [MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION], welcome aboard! This is the talky thread, the actual game thread is here.

PC's can be found here.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 4, 2014)

Leif said:


> OOC:  Greetings, all!  This is not quite like the PbP format that I am used to, so please bear with me while I figure out where all the threads of the game are located.  Just now, I can't seem to find any of them, but hopefully that will be remedied once I have subscribed to this thread.  Ok. I've subscribed to the group now, so that helps.  But I still can't find an entry for Swift in the RG, so I'm not sure what his modifier is to an initiative roll.




Sorry I am not very organized  We have a "Rogue Gallery" in the campaign group page: http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=386 It's a "discussion" page because for some reason I am not able to create Wiki Pages or anything else there, despite being the creator of the group... The idea is that players can update their PCs directly over there, for example when levelling up, or when we switched from playtest rules to released 5e rules.

The character *Swift* was originally posted here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...rules/page21&p=6343088&viewfull=1#post6343088 You can add it yourself to our "Rogue Gallery".

My idea is that for the moment you can play *Swift* who has already been introduced into the group, and if WarrenLaFrance comes back to play we can discuss together what to do.

By the way, everyone please know that I have an exceptional amount of RL duties until the 26th of November, so don't be discouraged by the fact that I have been posting so slowly... the game keeps going as long as the players keep playing!


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 5, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> My idea is that for the moment you can play *Swift* who has already been introduced into the group, and if WarrenLaFrance comes back to play we can discuss together what to do.
> 
> By the way, everyone please know that I have an exceptional amount of RL duties until the 26th of November, so don't be discouraged by the fact that I have been posting so slowly... the game keeps going as long as the players keep playing!




Apologies, Li Shenron -- I posted on the other thread an opinion before I read this one; my point there might be moot.  In any case, I'm not meaning to step on toes, and certainly not to gainsay your position here.


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## Li Shenron (Nov 5, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> Apologies, Li Shenron -- I posted on the other thread an opinion before I read this one; my point there might be moot.  In any case, I'm not meaning to step on toes, and certainly not to gainsay your position here.




That's ok!  I asked Leif in PMs if he was interested in playing Swift because WarrenLaFrance hasn't responded to whether he is still playing, and so this way we don't have to come up with another idea about meeting someone new in the middle of the dungeon. But I didn't want to force him into this arrangement...


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## Leif (Nov 5, 2014)

Li Shenron said:


> That's ok!  I asked Leif in PMs if he was interested in playing Swift because WarrenLaFrance hasn't responded to whether he is still playing, and so this way we don't have to come up with another idea about meeting someone new in the middle of the dungeon. But I didn't want to force him into this arrangement...




It's fine by me!


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 5, 2014)

Great! Welcome!


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## Shayuri (Nov 5, 2014)

Welcome aboard Leif. 

...

Do we -have- a Rogue's Gallery? I looked over on the Character forum but didn't see one.


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## Leif (Nov 5, 2014)

Shayuri said:


> Welcome aboard Leif.
> 
> ...
> 
> Do we -have- a Rogue's Gallery? I looked over on the Character forum but didn't see one.




Sorta ... it's set up as an ENWorld 'Group' called Dungeon Raiders, and it is here:  http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=386  [There's a link to it in 'My Communitites' over to the left, there, <---, the icon that looks like a gnoll, sorta, third from the left, but I see that you already have it in your own Communities.  The RG is the only Group Discussion that we have so far.]

And, thanks!


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## Shayuri (Nov 5, 2014)

Hm, crazy! Thanks for pointing this out to me, Leif. Somewhere in the hurly-burly I missed it. Looks like Li posted my sheet in there himself...but it's still the old version of it. I went ahead and posted Sulannus as well, so I can edit it as we level and keep it up to date.

Li, you can delete your version of the sheet if you like. Sorry I missed that until now.

Thanks, Leif!


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## Leif (Nov 5, 2014)

;-) YW!

See, that's how I found this game -- I was looking for groups to join and came across Dungeon Raiders.


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## wedgeski (Nov 13, 2014)

"Bartleby is astounded at the reluctance of his colleagues to engage with the foes that moments before they were so brave to face"
"Aeiyan is disappointed that his companions don't even try to use any tactics in this case"
"he looks toward the supposed tactician, Rejik, for guidance"

Guys, can we cut the snark? It's happened before and I resisted saying anything then. If it's RP, then please deploy it in such a way as the PC's, who can't read each-other's minds (yet!), can respond to it.


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## Shayuri (Nov 13, 2014)

Shayuri is inclined to agree with Wedgeski on this. Although it's often useful to have a window into a character's internal monologue, for characterization's sake, it can sometimes come off as being a passive-aggressive snipe at a player or players' decisions rather than just an insight into the private mind of the character. In this case for example, one might have written, 'Bartlesby decides that the others are being too timid for his liking, and boldly strides in, swinging his mighty walloper!' Or something similar. That conveys a similar in-character insight, without the insinuation of judgment that the post as written had.

Shayuri is also quick to note that this opinion is in no way intended to censor anyone, or even pick unfairly on Bartlesby or his player. He's sure that Kobold Stew had no intention of coming off that way. Ideally this would be seen as an attempt at constructive criticism and communication that we can all benefit from...if anyone had the magic power to read Shayuri's mind and know he was thinking all this.

But you don't. So ha.


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## wedgeski (Nov 13, 2014)

Shayuri said:


> But you don't. So ha.



Are you _sure_?


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## Shayuri (Nov 13, 2014)

It knows what I'm thinking!

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!

@_@


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## Jimmy Disco T (Nov 13, 2014)

Blame it on Tock's low INT score for his lack of tactics...  Definitely nothing to do with his player getting over excited at reaching level 2 and having a new ability he wants to use with grandiose images of an epic Action Surge charge in his mind...


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## Shayuri (Nov 13, 2014)

Hee hee, it's all good. We'll make it work. I have a feeling I'm about to be glad Su's an Evoker again real soon now.


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## Kobold Stew (Nov 14, 2014)

Friends, you have my apologies. I won't make excuses. I'm sorry.


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## Shayuri (Nov 14, 2014)

No worries, man. I know you didn't mean it that way. Online communication can be a brambly swamp!


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## Li Shenron (Nov 14, 2014)

Honestly I didn't read anything bad behind those posts...  

And I agree that written communication (especially when sparse/intermittent, asynchronous and mixed with RPing) can lead to so many misunderstandings, it's just so much more difficult than face-to-face... let's keep this in mind.


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## wedgeski (Nov 14, 2014)

S'all good, folks. I'm still enjoying the game a lot and hungry for more!


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## tuxgeo (Nov 14, 2014)

I regret my use of internal monologue to convey Aeiyan's point of view. 

I have edited my IC post to be much more minimal, partly in consideration of the fact that it is not currently Aeiyan's turn. 

Worse, I failed to roleplay the upgrade I had made to Aeiyan's Personality Trait #2: _Proverbal: "Enunciate your vocabules, and let us speak of things."_ 
(If I had roleplayed that properly, _he would have made a fuller comment during his own turn, explicitly stating what he meant,_ instead of indulging in internal monologue.)


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## Shayuri (Nov 14, 2014)

Aww...alright, group hug everyone. C'mon, we didn't mean it to be 'You guys are doing everything wrong!!' 

Now I feel bad for chastising y'all.


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## wedgeski (Nov 14, 2014)

The air is clear.... LET'S RPG!!!!!


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## Leif (Nov 14, 2014)

Kobold Stew said:


> Friends, you have my apologies. I won't make excuses. I'm sorry.






Shayuri said:


> No worries, man. I know you didn't mean it that way. Online communication can be a brambly swamp!






Li Shenron said:


> Honestly I didn't read anything bad behind those posts...
> 
> And I agree that written communication (especially when sparse/intermittent, asynchronous and mixed with RPing) can lead to so many misunderstandings, it's just so much more difficult than face-to-face... let's keep this in mind.




Ooooh, sounds like I totally missed something _juicy!_  Anyone care to enlighten?  heh heh heh




Shayuri said:


> Aww...alright, group hug everyone. C'mon, we didn't mean it to be 'You guys are doing everything wrong!!'
> 
> Now I feel bad for chastising y'all.




Wow.  Much heaviness!  ***Hugs all with great gusto!***  [Hey!  Watch the hands, there!]



wedgeski said:


> The air is clear.... LET'S RPG!!!!!




HOO-RAHH!!!


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## wedgeski (Dec 2, 2014)

Just testing the die roller, nothing to see here:

[roll0]

Edit: Seems to work!


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## tuxgeo (Dec 24, 2014)

Wishing joyeux noel to yule-all, and a happy new year when it arrives.


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## wedgeski (Jan 13, 2015)

Just popping in to say Happy New Year to everyone, and that I'm looking forward to continuing Rejik's quest to do as much damage to as many pointless inanimate objects as possible!


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 27, 2015)

On the issue of healing spells and Warforged:

The spell descriptions for both Cure wounds and Healing Word (the spell Bartleby's got prepared right now) say they have no affect on undead and constructs.


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## Jimmy Disco T (Jan 27, 2015)

I don't think we've got any non-playtest Warforged rules yet, but the playtest says they are Living Constructs ('Even though you were constructed, you are a humanoid.')

But I might just be looking for loopholes here. How did you heal a Warforged in 3rd / 4th ed?

Ultimately I can use Second Wind so I can probably get by without Cure spells regardless.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 27, 2015)

I just don't know -- as I said IC, Bartleby will be pleased and surprised if it works. Just trying to play the scene....


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## wedgeski (Jan 27, 2015)

There weren't any restrictions in previous editions IIRC. To be honest, for balance reasons alone, you have to be able to heal a warforged normally unless it has its own unique healing system.


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 27, 2015)

Look, I'm not fighting it. I am saying what's in the PHB. As someone who often likes to play different races, part of the appeal of doing so (for me) is to be playing with a more constrained frame -- including a different access to healing, conceivably. By choosing something outside of the norm, you choose the under-balanced options. YMMV. 

I don't know Eberron or the dynamics of war forged in previous editions to know what's what here.


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## Leif (Jan 27, 2015)

In 3.5 and 4 editions, warforged characters could be healed with standard cure wounds spells.  Not sure if they healed with extended rest or not, but I kinda doubt it.


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## tuxgeo (Jan 27, 2015)

Does anyone in this group have the DMG? 

I don't; but healing rules for Warforged characters might be in there. 

_(Mock Rule #1: Always carry a qualified Tinker Gnome, equipped with appropriate toolkit, in backpack.)_


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## Kobold Stew (Jan 27, 2015)

I do, but not at work. 

I am pretty certain, though, that Warforged are not included there.


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## Leif (Jan 27, 2015)

The 5E DMG?  I think I have it on my harddrive, hang on ...   Actually, I have the PH and MM, but not the DMG. 

There is no mention of the warforged race in the 5E PH, for what that's worth.


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## Shayuri (Jan 27, 2015)

No, I've read somewhere that the race will be released in the future...maybe even online?...but I can't cite anything. But yeah, not yet.

The original 3.x material stated they got half-benefit from healing magic, and didn't heal naturally, but could make Crafting rolls to heal themselves (usually at night while the organics slept) at a rate comparable to natural healing.

4e removed limitations on healing; magic and surges had full effect on them.


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## wedgeski (Feb 3, 2015)

Basic warforged rules are now available via the first in the Unearthed Arcana series.


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## Kobold Stew (Feb 3, 2015)

Yeah, and they don't directly address the issue of healing. "*Living Construct*. Even though you were constructed you are a living creature." Does that make you a creature? Or immune because you are a construct? Presumably if you were you can be an undead creature, and be immune. It really could be clearer.


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## Leif (Feb 3, 2015)

Oh, no!  It's the Attack of 'the DM's Discretion' again!

(Can I get an, "Amen"?)


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## Kobold Stew (Feb 3, 2015)

Leif said:


> Oh, no!  It's the Attack of 'the DM's Discretion' again!
> 
> (Can I get an, "Amen"?)




It's not clear if you're mocking my concern here or if you believe I am making a different point than I am. In any case, this is not what I said, and the dismissive sarcasm is unnecessary.


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## Leif (Feb 3, 2015)

Not mocking anyone.  I am actually a fan of DMs filling-in stuff.  Maybe I did misunderstand you, though, because I don't remember now exactly what your point was or why I thought it was ok to respond as I did.  Certainly, no offense was intended and I was absolutely not mocking you.  The psychotic demons that were tormenting me last night have moved on to greener pastures today.

No "dismissive sarcasm" or sarcasm of any kind for that matter, was intended.  For some reason, I just found it amusing the way the 1Ed. DM Guide falls back on DM Discretion as a last line of defense, with which, incidentally, I happen to be in full agreement, even if I sometimes chuckle at it.


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## Shayuri (Feb 5, 2015)

It's a little lazy yeah...the definition of Living Construct was made fairly clear in Eberron's original material, and it seems like they're just coasting on that in this writeup. I guess they assume that anyone who wants to play a Warforged probably is already familiar with how they work, conceptually.

A mistake, by and large, since how they work can vary from group to group, campaign to campaign, and edition to edition.

But this article seems quickly written to whet appetites, not necessarily to present complete information.


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## Li Shenron (Feb 7, 2015)

Kobold Stew said:


> Yeah, and they don't directly address the issue of healing. "*Living Construct*. Even though you were constructed you are a living creature." Does that make you a creature? Or immune because you are a construct? Presumably if you were you can be an undead creature, and be immune. It really could be clearer.




My decision for Dungeon Raiders was to make healing spells work fine on Warforged, partly because I don't want to make it unnecessarily harder on Tock to receive healing compared to other PCs, and partly because in 5e HP are as vague as ever on what they actually represent... it seems most gamers nowadays think of HP damage as mostly just getting closer to defeat, but not necessarily physical wounds (although a quick tour around PbP games reveals that still physical wounds is how HP damage gets described 99% of the time).



Shayuri said:


> It's a little lazy yeah...the definition of Living Construct was made fairly clear in Eberron's original material, and it seems like they're just coasting on that in this writeup. I guess they assume that anyone who wants to play a Warforged probably is already familiar with how they work, conceptually.
> 
> A mistake, by and large, since how they work can vary from group to group, campaign to campaign, and edition to edition.
> 
> But this article seems quickly written to whet appetites, not necessarily to present complete information.




Honestly I don't know what was the original Eberron concept because I've never really played in that setting.

Also to their defense, they mentioned that the material in Unearthed Arcana is not final, and it is supposed to be the subject of playtesting and feedback from gaming groups, so it's very possible that later they will add more information.


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## Shayuri (Feb 7, 2015)

I didn't mean it as a put down. It's clearly a short piece, meant to meet an immediate interest in the subject and maybe raise interest in future products. It does fine for what it is.


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## Li Shenron (Feb 10, 2015)

That's right, in fact my first thought was to let [MENTION=6749529]Jimmy Disco T[/MENTION] update Tock to using this new version of the Warforged race. That would be ok for me, but let's keep in mind that because this is just a draft, it might be changed again in a few weeks...


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## Jimmy Disco T (Feb 10, 2015)

I took a look at the Unearthed Arcana Warforged and it looked pretty much identical to playtest if I remember. Same stat boosts, same +1 AC, still a Living Construct...


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## tuxgeo (Feb 13, 2015)

Getting away from the issue of Warforged and back to something we touched on quite a while ago: 

I have started a blog series here on EN World describing my own simple-minded* view of D&D tactics. The first two entries are "First Principles" and "Playing Smart."

_* I say "simple-minded" because my own paucity of experience with the game._


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## tuxgeo (Mar 5, 2015)

[ . . . as the disappointed/disappointing poster comes limping back . . .] 

Thanks to CanadienneBacon (in another campaign) for checking with Morrus and PirateCat on my behalf. As you can see, I now have posting ability again. 

If it's alright with everyone, I would like to continue playing Aeiyan in this game. I regret my over-reaction over the past several days to my having lost connectivity here. It shouldn't happen again. (I doubt I'll be changing my e-mail address here again.)


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## Shayuri (Mar 5, 2015)

Welcome back, Tux! Glad you guys were able to work out what was going on.


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## Li Shenron (Mar 9, 2015)

tuxgeo said:


> If it's alright with everyone, I would like to continue playing Aeiyan in this game. I regret my over-reaction over the past several days to my having lost connectivity here. It shouldn't happen again. (I doubt I'll be changing my e-mail address here again.)




I never removed you from the game


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## wedgeski (Mar 9, 2015)

tuxgeo said:


> If it's alright with everyone, I would like to continue playing Aeiyan in this game. I regret my over-reaction over the past several days to my having lost connectivity here. It shouldn't happen again. (I doubt I'll be changing my e-mail address here again.)



[OOC: I just figured you were having a bad day.  ]


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## Leif (Mar 10, 2015)

tuxgeo said:


> If it's alright with everyone, I would like to continue playing Aeiyan in this game. I regret my over-reaction over the past several days to my having lost connectivity here. It shouldn't happen again. (I doubt I'll be changing my e-mail address here again.)



I think most, if not all, of us have been there, [Big] Brother.  No harm, no foul.  Let's play us some D&D!


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## tuxgeo (Apr 20, 2015)

[MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION]: _Playing_ -- or trying to. 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
On another note: I know it's not my turn to post next IC, because the most recent post is mine. 
Are we still doing this?


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## Kobold Stew (Apr 20, 2015)

I'm here, ready to play.


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## Leif (Apr 20, 2015)

I'm here, too.


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## wedgeski (Apr 20, 2015)

Present!

I enjoy playing with you guys, but (with due recognition that I'm not the most prolific poster in the game, by a long shot), I would like things to move a *little* more quickly.


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## Shayuri (Apr 21, 2015)

*weakly raises hand*

Here. Pretty much.


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## Li Shenron (Apr 22, 2015)

wedgeski said:


> I enjoy playing with you guys, but (with due recognition that I'm not the most prolific poster in the game, by a long shot), I would like things to move a *little* more quickly.




You are right, I am sorry I always post scarcely myself. 

Note that right now, your characters have secured a fairly safe spot in the adventure, so at least for the moment it's a bit more up to you to get going than threats to force you to


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## Leif (Apr 22, 2015)

Don't worry about me.  I wouldn't make a comment, humorous or not, if my life depended on it.  I'm just waiting here, quietly in a corner.


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## Leif (Apr 29, 2015)

So anybody want to really try to mess with the DM and leave the dungeon to do something totally different?


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## Li Shenron (May 9, 2015)

I hope you're not disappointed by the "key incident". You all seemed quite confident that the key would open that door... I was almost tempted at winging something there, but I had promised myself that I wouldn't do that anymore


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## Kobold Stew (May 9, 2015)

no worries!


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## Leif (May 9, 2015)

No need to re-write for me!  We just have to look more, that's all.


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## wedgeski (May 9, 2015)

That's life in the dungeon.


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## tuxgeo (May 25, 2015)

I'm being a bit confused by the contents of the room beyond the door with the lock that had to be picked in order to enter: 

Those who enter the room each see non-humans armed and ready to fight -- one slim, on short, one small, and one mechanical. So are those Sulannus, Bartleby, Swift, and Tock, who each enter, and who each see the other three? Why do the characters who enter the room only see three non-humans instead of four, and no humans? Are Aeiyan and Rejik still outside the room; or do other beings stand inside the room? 

Are there mirrors on the walls that reflect images of everybody except the observer? 

I'm not sure I understand the description of that room.

_Edited to add a link._


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## Shayuri (May 25, 2015)

Yeah, I was confused by that too. I figured I'd just wait and see how the people ahead of me in init dealt with it before I committed.


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## Leif (May 26, 2015)

I was waiting for Shayuri, as one of the most awesome ENWorlders EVer!!

Seriously, I didn't get it at all, either.


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## Li Shenron (May 27, 2015)

It was just a joke... there is no one else in the room beside the PCs.


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## Shayuri (May 27, 2015)

LOL

Oh man, we got chain-trolled.

Well played, sir.


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## Jimmy Disco T (Jun 8, 2015)

Hi all

Unfortunately I'm going to have to take my leave of all play by post activities for the moment; a lot of things are going on in my life at the moment, not least the ongoing purchase of a first home, along with the fun of moving house and decorating/renovating said house (and making arrangements for some furry friends to move in!), as well as an imminent week away in the countryside with little or no wi-fi and PC access.

It's been fun though, thanks everyone!


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## Li Shenron (Jun 9, 2015)

Jimmy Disco T said:


> Hi all
> 
> Unfortunately I'm going to have to take my leave of all play by post activities for the moment; a lot of things are going on in my life at the moment, not least the ongoing purchase of a first home, along with the fun of moving house and decorating/renovating said house (and making arrangements for some furry friends to move in!), as well as an imminent week away in the countryside with little or no wi-fi and PC access.
> 
> It's been fun though, thanks everyone!




Sorry to hear that 

I'll keep Tock passive but still following the party at least until they are out of the dungeon and somewhere safe. Should something bad happen to him, I guarantee that it won't be permanent, so that when you have time, if you still want to play you'll be able to resume the same character - but no levels-up in the meantime!


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## Jimmy Disco T (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks Li Shenron... Good luck to all the remaining intrepid dungeon delivers!


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## Li Shenron (Jun 22, 2015)

Hello all,

I am leaving for the summer holidays for about 3 weeks. I'll be suntanning on warm shores, where the chance of a working internet connection is small, so I won't probably update the PbP thread for a while... But the adventure isn't over yet, so let's meet again near mid-July. You can of course keep RPing in the thread in my absence if you want!


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## Li Shenron (Jul 16, 2015)

[MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION] [MENTION=23484]Kobold Stew[/MENTION] [MENTION=16212]wedgeski[/MENTION] [MENTION=61026]tuxgeo[/MENTION] [MENTION=48762]Leif[/MENTION]

Just a heads-up to see if everyone's available before resuming the adventure from where we left


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 16, 2015)

Present.


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## Shayuri (Jul 16, 2015)

Eeeeyo yo yo everybody!


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## Leif (Jul 16, 2015)

Here.  Swift is ready to do some roguery and stuff like that.


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## wedgeski (Jul 17, 2015)

Here!


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## tuxgeo (Jul 17, 2015)

Here and ready.


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## Li Shenron (Jul 17, 2015)

Great!  Let's then continue in the IC thread...


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## Li Shenron (Sep 28, 2015)

We haven't posted anything in the game's threads for over a month... 

I suppose that interest in this game has waned, but we can still continue if you want. Or we can take a break and see in a couple of months if you'd like to continue.

Maybe the current situation is not especially exciting, as you have mostly cleared the whole first dungeon. You are essentially at a strategic crossroad here, between exiting the dungeon and face who's outside (itself a decision that offers wildly different options, with relation to _how_ you're going to face them) or push forward on the inside. Or who knows, there might be even more than just these two options.

To increase your confidence in your PCs, you can all *level up* from your current level (i.e. Swift to 2nd level, everyone else to 3rd level).


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## Leif (Sep 28, 2015)

Sounds good to me.  Anyone else?


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## wedgeski (Sep 28, 2015)

I think I'll take this opportunity to bow out, chaps. It's been an absolute pleasure! I wish you all the best of luck.


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## Kobold Stew (Sep 28, 2015)

Still here, and happy to keep going.


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## Kobold Stew (Sep 28, 2015)

Li Shenron said:


> To increase your confidence in your PCs, you can all *level up* from your current level (i.e. Swift to 2nd level, everyone else to 3rd level).




Done.


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## Leif (Sep 29, 2015)

"Swift" update in progress.


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## tuxgeo (Sep 29, 2015)

I'm going to follow wedgeski's example and bow out here. (Aeiyan Athelmar will return to the practice of forestry for a living.) 

Great thanks to Li Shenron for running this adventure. ("Ghouls and cursed scrolls and catacombs, Oh! My!") It has been fun. 
Best wishes to everybody, and I'll probably see you around here and there.


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## Li Shenron (Oct 7, 2015)

I'm sorry to see you go, but I admit I had neglected the game after the summer break...

Let's see if we are at least 3 players to continue the story further. [MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION] are you still interested in playing?


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## Leif (Oct 7, 2015)

Swift is still here.  Not sure if I finished updating him, though.


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## Li Shenron (Oct 23, 2015)

I suppose we have to quit the adventure then... Mostly my fault really, this time of the year is always the most messy for me, as I have a lot of stuff going on, and I often neglected running this game. Sorry for that!

You were only about half-way through the intended storyline, but nevertheless you made it the longest ever PbP game I was involved with (my first as DM). And you have been both good players and nice people, so I am really grateful to all of you! Should I ever run a PbP game again, you are all invited to join again!

Happy gaming


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## Leif (Oct 23, 2015)

Thanks!!


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## Kobold Stew (Oct 23, 2015)

Thanks so much -- PBP is so hard, and I am grateful to anyone who undertakes to run a game. This was a lot of fun, and though we got bogged down talking to cockroaches, the puzzle itself will stick with me as a truly memorable event. It also was fun feeling the system transition from the play test to the published game.  So thanks for all you've done, and your patience and guidance. 

I look forward to future gaming! Cheers, both of you.


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## Shayuri (Oct 23, 2015)

Agh, I missed this...but the sad reality is that I'd be hard pressed to take it up again anyway at this point.

This was a great game, and a great introduction to 5e for me. Much gratitude to you, Li, and to my fellow players for making it happen!


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