# [UPDATED] Check Out These PRINCES OF THE APOCALYPSE Maps!



## Grimstaff (Mar 17, 2015)

Nice. I'm looking forward to this one, looks like it will have the more sandboxy approach of LMoP.


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## Blackwarder (Mar 17, 2015)

But why are the hexes 10 miles instead of 6?


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## S_Dalsgaard (Mar 17, 2015)

Blackwarder said:


> But why are the hexes 10 miles instead of 6?




Does it matter? It is probably to fit the needed area on one page. The LMoP map for example had 5-mile hexes.


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## Prism (Mar 17, 2015)

The first section of the adventure is available on the adventurers league site if you are organising an encounters game. It contains these maps with the area details


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## wedgeski (Mar 17, 2015)

Sweet! I bought all of Mike's player maps for _Lost Mine of Phandelver_ and it helped my game immensely. Looks like I'm going to have to creak the old wallet open again.


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## Fildrigar (Mar 17, 2015)

Spoilers.


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## doctorhook (Mar 17, 2015)

Lord, this makes me wish we'd got this thing last fall. Right now my party (who had a blast in LMoP) is sluggin' their way through Castle Naerytar in HotDQ. It's just such a clumsy adventure. Princes of Apocalypse already looks like a much stronger successor to LMoP: same author, same cartographer, same region of Faerun. With some luck, it'll turn out to actually be this awesome once we get our mitts on the actual adventure!


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## Prism (Mar 17, 2015)

Fildrigar said:


> Spoilers.




It looks very good so far. Immediate choices about adventures you want to do much like LMoP. Lovely maps. Interesting encounter locations. I can see a problem with multi table encounters evenings though. Due to the fact a group can visit encounter locations in any order, somebody who swaps tables between weeks might end up doing the same encounter twice


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## trystero (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm glad that WotC hired Mike Schley, whose maps are evocative and beautiful while still being uncluttered and clear, for this adventure. I was unimpressed with the maps that Jared Blando did for the two Tyranny of Dragons adventures: they had too much decoration and not enough colour or clarity for my tastes.


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## raphaelus (Mar 17, 2015)

Look at all those sites! Can't wait for the reviews of the book to kick in.

And Feathergate Spire? That shiat better not beam me to the Air plane *acrophobia kicks in*


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## Blackwarder (Mar 17, 2015)

S_Dalsgaard said:


> Does it matter? It is probably to fit the needed area on one page. The LMoP map for example had 5-mile hexes.




Yes, it's wrecking havoc with daily travel rates, and the LMoP map was commissioned before they settled on the 6 mile hex instead of the 5 miles hex. In my LMoP I just told all the players that each hex is 6 miles across instead of 5 since it's such a small change, dealing with the 10 miles hex gona be challenging.

Warder


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## D'karr (Mar 17, 2015)

Blackwarder said:


> Yes, it's wrecking havoc with daily travel rates, and the LMoP map was commissioned before they settled on the 6 mile hex instead of the 5 miles hex. In my LMoP I just told all the players that each hex is 6 miles across instead of 5 since it's such a small change, dealing with the 10 miles hex gona be challenging.
> 
> Warder




Swap 10 for 12 miles.  The reason 6 mile hexes (or multiples of 6) are preferred is because with that scale the hex measures the same from every angle.


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## Uller (Mar 17, 2015)

I thought I read somewhere that there is a playable intro to this adventure.  I found the player's guide but nothing else.


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## TarionzCousin (Mar 17, 2015)

raphaelus said:


> And Feathergate Spire? That shiat better not beam me to the Air plane *acrophobia kicks in*



You'll go where the plot tells you to go, soldier!


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## Paraxis (Mar 17, 2015)

Uller said:


> I thought I read somewhere that there is a playable intro to this adventure.  I found the player's guide but nothing else.




The first two chapters of the book are available as an Adventurers League download for running at game stores. It requires a password to download.


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## Staffan (Mar 17, 2015)

D'karr said:


> Swap 10 for 12 miles.  The reason 6 mile hexes (or multiples of 6) are preferred is because with that scale the hex measures the same from every angle.




Hexes measure the same from every angle anyway. The reason 6-mile hexes are preferred is that a day's travel is 18, 24, or 30 miles depending on pace - or 3, 4, or 5 hexes if they're 6 miles.


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## graves3141 (Mar 17, 2015)

Ok, I'm officially excited about Princes of the Apocalypse now.  I'm really hoping the reviews will be favorable.  If so, I'll be sure to pick up a copy. Because select stores will get it on March 27th, we should know if it's any good in just a couple of weeks.


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## Uller (Mar 17, 2015)

Paraxis said:


> The first two chapters of the book are available as an Adventurers League download for running at game stores. It requires a password to download.



Thta makes sense.  Hopefully we can get some feedback from those that get to play it.  If it's more like LMoP and less like ToD I'll buy it...who am I kidding...I'll probably by it anyway...but I'm hoping for more of a sanbox style adventure.


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## D'karr (Mar 17, 2015)

Staffan said:


> Hexes measure the same from every angle anyway. The reason 6-mile hexes are preferred is that a day's travel is 18, 24, or 30 miles depending on pace - or 3, 4, or 5 hexes if they're 6 miles.




Except that measuring in fractions can be a pain in the ass.  The 6 mile hex has the most benefit, and can be broken into smaller subhexes that also work "better" for eyeballing.

I remember someone some time ago writing a pretty interesting post on it.  I'll see if I can find it.

6 mile hex


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## doctorhook (Mar 17, 2015)

trystero said:


> I'm glad that WotC hired Mike Schley, whose maps are evocative and beautiful while still being uncluttered and clear, for this adventure. I was unimpressed with the maps that Jared Blando did for the two Tyranny of Dragons adventures: they had too much decoration and not enough colour or clarity for my tastes.



I had thought so too, until I saw the digitial versions of Blando's maps; they were a lot more colourful. It's like all the art in HotDQ was washed out with purple.

Anyway, I still prefer Schley's maps, as they're a lot more useful.


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## machineelf (Mar 17, 2015)

I think Blando's maps were beautiful. I'm not sure he's to be blamed for any of the confusion and editing issues concerning the maps. 

I also like Schley's maps a ton, so I'm thrilled he's working on this project.


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## trystero (Mar 17, 2015)

secondhander said:


> I think Blando's maps were beautiful. I'm not sure he's to be blamed for any of the confusion and editing issues concerning the maps.




I'm not blaming Blando for the editing errors, which were beyond his control. My complaints with his _Tyranny of Dragons_ work are more to do with the busy borders and background elements, which often leave me struggling to figure out what's the map and what's just decoration, but even more so to do with the ambiguity of his shading for elevation: I can't tell which way his stairs go, and I have to refer back to the adventure text to tell whether I'm looking at a ridge or a pit.

They're beautiful as art; less useful as practical maps, though. And while I certainly prefer maps which have both clarity and beauty, if it comes to a trade-off I'll take clarity every time.


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## machineelf (Mar 17, 2015)

trystero said:


> And while I certainly prefer maps which have both clarity and beauty, if it comes to a trade-off I'll take clarity every time.




I agree with this.


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## GlobeOfDankness (Mar 18, 2015)

i like schley's maps well enough, but i feel like he has some serious style lock going on. i can't tell you how many of his generic, green, swirly pastures i've seen groups slog through.


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## MonsterEnvy (Mar 18, 2015)

I can't see the maps on his site.


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## Mark CMG (Mar 18, 2015)

wedgeski said:


> Sweet! I bought all of Mike's player maps for _Lost Mine of Phandelver_ and it helped my game immensely. Looks like I'm going to have to creak the old wallet open again.





They are reasonably priced.  Now, if you blow one up for the wall it can get a bit pricey . . .


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## Ilbranteloth (Mar 18, 2015)

They were there earlier and I didn't finish the purchase. Now they are gone. 

Looks like they went live a bit before they were supposed to...

They'll be back.

Ilbranteloth


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## chibi graz'zt (Mar 18, 2015)

Absolutely stunning maps. Mike Schley is *the* D&D cartographer. Looking forward to buying these on his website. Yet again the best production values I've seen in any D& D product. I've preordered my copy already!


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## GX.Sigma (Mar 18, 2015)

It seems they're putting a lot of resources into this campaign. Hopefully it makes up for the shockingly low production value of Tyranny of Dragons.


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 18, 2015)

On the 10 mile thing, that may just be kilometers; 6 miles = about 10 kilometers


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## Fildrigar (Mar 18, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> I can't see the maps on his site.




It appears he took them down. Since the adventure doesn't release until next week, I'm assuming.


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## Unwise (Mar 18, 2015)

I'm really excited to hear about this adventure having the same cartographer and writer as LMoP. It being in the same area is just the icing on the cake, that is great. Heck I would have been happy with sequel "The Found Mine of Phandelver".

The initial blurb description of the adventure just sounds awful to me. I don't like save the world quests. I don't like, "there are four items of power" quests either. Combining the two with my other peeve "dungeons split into elemental themes" and I had lost all hope. It has now piqued my interest, maybe they can make it kitsch, tongue-in-cheek or plausible enough to win me over. I have faith in that team at least.


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## Scrivener of Doom (Mar 18, 2015)

I've given the adventure from AL a quick skim and I really like it. I think the larger version is going to be very good but, as a Rich Baker fanboy (with cause), I am biased. I also extracted the regional map from the PDF and it's a better resolution than the one Morrus posted. You can grab it <here>.


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## Nemio (Mar 18, 2015)

Unwise said:


> I'm really excited to hear about this adventure having the same cartographer and writer as LMoP. It being in the same area is just the icing on the cake, that is great. Heck I would have been happy with sequel "The Found Mine of Phandelver".




Indeed, it's just east of Phandalin.
I hope there's a good way to transition from the Starter Set Adventure to this one.


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## 77IM (Mar 18, 2015)

Hexes that are 10 miles along the short axis (one side to the other) are approximately 12 miles along the long axis (one corner to the other). So, the system works.


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## Scrivener of Doom (Mar 18, 2015)

Nemio said:


> Indeed, it's just east of Phandalin.
> I hope there's a good way to transition from the Starter Set Adventure to this one.




Just have one of the elemental cults as a faction seeking the Forge of Spells and railroad from there. Alternatively, set the higher level parts of Princes - Feathergale Spire and the Sighing Valley, for example - in the Sword Mountains near Phandalin. Actually, Phandalin could simply be a substitute for Red Larch and then you could run the whole thing on the Neverwinter regional map from the Starter Set.


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## Morrus (Mar 18, 2015)

Mike Schley has let me know that WotC has asked him to remove the maps temporarily until the actual adventure is released.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 18, 2015)

This developement is very interesting. It means WotC micro-manages what happens to D&D more than some people thought. 

I wonder what is the problem for WotC with sample maps being released.


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## ragnboneshopper (Mar 18, 2015)

I've prepped the free intro to run tonight at our FLGS for Encounters. This one is much more sandbox-y than ToD was. More like Phandelver. Thank the gods for that! If the entire book looks as good as what I've seen so far, I'll be all in with this one. We skipped RoT, ugh.


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## machineelf (Mar 18, 2015)

goldomark said:


> This developement is very interesting. It means WotC micro-manages what happens to D&D more than some people thought.
> 
> I wonder what is the problem for WotC with sample maps being released.





I don't know if I would call it micro-managing rather than just managing their product release. I would have thought Schley would have checked with WOTC before putting the maps up online. Presumably he didn't do that, or there was some miscommunication. I don't mean that negatively toward Schley, who is a fantastic artist and cartographer, and who goes to the trouble of providing map resources for players.


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## Morrus (Mar 18, 2015)

secondhander said:


> I don't know if I would call it micro-managing rather than just managing their product release. I would have thought Schley would have checked with WOTC before putting the maps up online. Presumably he didn't do that, or there was some miscommunication. I don't mean that negatively toward Schley, who is a fantastic artist and cartographer, and who goes to the trouble of providing map resources for players.




Nah, he just confused the Encounters release with the hardcover release. He didn't realise they were in different dates. No big deal.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 19, 2015)

Not nefarious enough. Um... Maybe we can say real blood was used to make the maps.


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## aramis erak (Mar 19, 2015)

graves3141 said:


> Ok, I'm officially excited about Princes of the Apocalypse now.  I'm really hoping the reviews will be favorable.  If so, I'll be sure to pick up a copy. Because select stores will get it on March 27th, we should know if it's any good in just a couple of weeks.




It's looking pretty good... some nifty new stuff in the appendices.


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## Nebulous (Mar 19, 2015)

wedgeski said:


> Sweet! I bought all of Mike's player maps for _Lost Mine of Phandelver_ and it helped my game immensely. Looks like I'm going to have to creak the old wallet open again.




Yup, and it was worth it.


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## weldon (Mar 19, 2015)

We played the first session at Adventurer's League last night and I'm happy with the direction. We're not far enough along to offer a real review yet, but it started off great.

Also, I bought the maps before they were pulled and they are great.


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