# Wil Wheaton Sues Geek & Sundry Over Titansgrave



## pming (Aug 14, 2019)

Hiya!



Morrus said:


> Hollywood Reporter has more information. Apparently the agreement was that Wheaton be paid $50,000 plus 50% of the series' net profit. He is seeking $100,000 in damages and asking that an audit take place.




Well, I for one hope he wins whatever it is he deserves/agreed to. I only bought Titansgrave because of that series. It looked interesting enough, and I like the AGE system. A bit dissapointed in the actual Titansgrave book itself (too much "adventure" and not enough info for a Campaign setting...but better than nothing I guess).

I may not agree with a lot of Will's current opinions and whatnot, but I do like him as an actor and gamer...and I hate seeing any gamer get screwed by some company or 'fine print'. Hope he gets what he's due. 

^_^

Paul L. Ming


----------



## lowkey13 (Aug 14, 2019)

*Deleted by user*


----------



## pming (Aug 14, 2019)

Hiya!



lowkey13 said:


> ?




I'm going to take the 5th here and just say "No comment".

^_^

Paul L. Ming


----------



## lowkey13 (Aug 14, 2019)

*Deleted by user*


----------



## CleverNickName (Aug 14, 2019)

Same here.  Wil's always been a stand-up guy, as far as I can tell.  The big news lately is that he left Twitter because he disagreed with their policies.  (shrug)


----------



## Aldarc (Aug 14, 2019)

CleverNickName said:


> Same here.  Wil's always been a stand-up guy, as far as I can tell.  The big news lately is that he left Twitter because he disagreed with their policies.  (shrug)



"Jack" is hardly consistent when it comes to policing their platform.


----------



## DEFCON 1 (Aug 14, 2019)

I follow him on his blog and I don't think I'm too far off in thinking that he is a far left progressive.  So the more you begin moving centrally and then further right, the less you probably go along with what he believes (and his language regarding people further right are not exactly friendly, which I'm sure is off-putting as well.)

He's also been quite frank about living and dealing with his extremely severe Depression, so your personal thoughts and beliefs on mental illness might also align or misalign you to him.


----------



## Gradine (Aug 14, 2019)

I generally follow him too, and maybe I'm naive but I think "far left" is a bit of a stretch. His language for those he disagrees with is... definitely colorful though (one might even say Kluwe-esque) which is why he is not always endearing to some. I'd be somewhat shocked, in this day and age, that his openness in speaking about mental illness would earn him ire as well, but then given the trash fire that we currently live in, should I really be that surprised? 

That said, I very much enjoyed the Titansgrave series until the "Wil reads his fan fiction to the players" episode, and there's a lot to like about Fantasy AGE in general. I mourn the loss of quality G&S content daily.


----------



## DEFCON 1 (Aug 14, 2019)

Gradine said:


> I generally follow him too, and maybe I'm naive but I think "far left" is a bit of a stretch. His language for those he disagrees with is... definitely colorful though (one might even say Kluwe-esque) which is why he is not always endearing to some. I'd be somewhat shocked, in this day and age, that his openness in speaking about mental illness would earn him ire as well, but then given the trash fire that we currently live in, should I really be that surprised?




Yeah, I have no idea what may or may not be an issue for people, so I was just guesstimating based on stuff he's talked about on his blog-- politics, mental health, his acting career etc.  I have no idea what issues any person might personally have with him.

All I do know is that I for one would love to see more episodes of Tabletop.  I firmly believe that the same way Critical Role led the way in mainstreaming D&D, Tabletop did it for the board game industry.  The Diana Jones Award they got was greatly deserved.


----------



## Gradine (Aug 14, 2019)

Oh absolutely. There are a bunch of board games I would never own if I didn't see them first on TableTop. It still floored me the first time I saw stuff like Pandemic or Dixit in a freaking Target (with a sign saying "As Seen on YouTube's TableTop!", no less)


----------



## BookBarbarian (Aug 14, 2019)

I wish he could sue them and get TableTop back. I miss that show.

Anyway, if G&S is in violation of their agreement I hope he takes them to the cleaners.


----------



## Morrus (Aug 14, 2019)

BookBarbarian said:


> I wish he could sue them and get TableTop back. I miss that show.




Does he need the brand name? I would think he’s the bigger brand name than Tabletop there. A new show headed by him would probably do just as well.


----------



## BookBarbarian (Aug 14, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Does he need the brand name? I would think he’s the bigger brand name than Tabletop there. A new show headed by him would probably do just as well.




That's a very good point. Probably not.


----------



## pming (Aug 14, 2019)

Hiya!

I'm with you all on the missing of TableTop. Great little series that let me see a variety of games I would never see otherwise (where I live, lets just say I could count the number of "game stores" on my fingers and have 9 left over). The closest game store after that is about, oh, 1600km away...and I don't envy driving 20 hours to go peruse the latest TT games.

^_^

Paul L. Ming


----------



## BookBarbarian (Aug 14, 2019)

pming said:


> Hiya!
> 
> I'm with you all on the missing of TableTop. Great little series that let me see a variety of games I would never see otherwise (where I live, lets just say I could count the number of "game stores" on my fingers and have 9 left over). The closest game store after that is about, oh, 1600km away...and I don't envy driving 20 hours to go peruse the latest TT games.
> 
> ...




I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I'm spoiled for options. So I loved to see the ones he chose and found enjoyable.

In particular the ones he played with his wife and kids. Without the veil of charismatic actors, I could get a better idea if the game was fun.

But I must admit seeing them played by actors/celebrities was a big part of the enjoyment and a big reason I prefer TableTop to Game the Game.


----------



## Greatwyrm (Aug 15, 2019)

I don't think anybody would be surprised if there was some voodoo accounting involved in this.  I know Hollywood money is powerful, but I'm still surprised they continue to get away with playing with numbers the way they do.


----------



## aramis erak (Aug 16, 2019)

Greatwyrm said:


> [...] but I'm still surprised they continue to get away with playing with numbers the way they do.



The issue is one of recoverability.
If you get an order for forensic accounting to be going through it, usually, the losing side pays. So, unless you have the cash to afford to pay...
... it becomes a strong disincentive to sue.


----------



## Grave Knight (Aug 16, 2019)

pming said:


> Well, I for one hope he wins whatever it is he deserves/agreed to. I only bought Titansgrave because of that series. It looked interesting enough, and I like the AGE system. A bit dissapointed in the actual Titansgrave book itself (too much "adventure" and not enough info for a Campaign setting...but better than nothing I guess).



We were suppose to get a season 2 (probably never happening) and a World of Valkana (we have a better chance of seeing this but not likely). I'm wondering if his deal with Geek and Sundry is what was/is preventing those books from releasing.


----------



## dragoner (Aug 16, 2019)

Almost certainly sounds like an IP fight


----------



## Grave Knight (Aug 16, 2019)

dragoner said:


> Almost certainly sounds like an IP fight



Maybe, but there isn't any evidence. Right now it just sounds like Wil Wheaton wanting the money that's owed to him. I don't know if Geek and Sundry has any rights over Titansgrave but there might be some  unknown contract obligations that either gives them full rights over the IP or prevents season 2 from releasing before it's broadcast on Geek and Sundry.

EDIT: Okay, there is more evidence of that than I thought. It's been a while since I look at the back of the book for Titansgrave, but there is a Geek and Sundry trademark on it. So you might be right. If they settle out of court don't be surprised if Wheaton gets a significantly smaller amount of money but also gets the rights to Titansgrave back.


----------



## dragoner (Aug 16, 2019)

Grave Knight said:


> Maybe, but there isn't any evidence. Right now it just sounds like Wil Wheaton wanting the money that's owed to him. I don't know if Geek and Sundry has any rights over Titansgrave but there might be some  unknown contract obligations that either gives them full rights over the IP or prevents season 2 from releasing before it's broadcast on Geek and Sundry.




Yes, maybe, just saying what it looks like. The money isn't a big amount for entertainment either, in particular after the lawyers take their cut, however it is a good bargaining chip to get control of the show, and then shop it somewhere else.


----------



## Grave Knight (Aug 16, 2019)

dragoner said:


> Yes, maybe, just saying what it looks like. The money isn't a big amount for entertainment either, in particular after the lawyers take their cut, however it is a good bargaining chip to get control of the show, and then shop it somewhere else.



Pft. Be funny if that happens and it ends up on Critical Role's channel.


----------



## dragoner (Aug 16, 2019)

Grave Knight said:


> Pft. Be funny if that happens and it ends up on Critical Role's channel.




That's why it's called Hollyweird, I lived there for a couple of years before deciding I had enough. First job out of uni was as a draftsman for a team designing strut tower brackets for the jeep liberty.


----------



## Bacon Bits (Aug 17, 2019)

I'm not remotely surprised. Geek & Sundry was great at first, but once Legendary Digital bought it there have been a number of signs that they're just not the same culture. Wil left, as have a bunch of other people, and the general feel is that it's been because of Legendary. I still like Felicia Day, but I generally avoid G&S now with the exception of Matt Mercer's Critical Role.


----------



## PabloM (Aug 17, 2019)

Bacon Bits said:


> I still like Felicia Day, but I generally avoid G&S now with the exception of Matt Mercer's Critical Role.




I don't consider myself a critter, and I'm sure someone can let me know if I'm wrong, but I think Critical Role left G&S and made his own channel now.


----------



## Bacon Bits (Aug 19, 2019)

PabloM said:


> I don't consider myself a critter, and I'm sure someone can let me know if I'm wrong, but I think Critical Role left G&S and made his own channel now.




It did. They left Legendary, too. I still just associate them, I guess. I'm not a critter, either, but I catch their streams when they're on if I'm not busy.


----------



## aramis erak (Aug 23, 2019)

dragoner said:


> Almost certainly sounds like an IP fight



Those get ugly quick.
Usually the wealthier side tries to delay as long as possible to run the up-front costs as high for the other side as possible, or a settlement is reached.
And, as with academic politics, the nastiness is so high because the stakes are so low...


----------



## dragoner (Aug 24, 2019)

aramis erak said:


> Those get ugly quick.
> Usually the wealthier side tries to delay as long as possible to run the up-front costs as high for the other side as possible, or a settlement is reached.
> And, as with academic politics, the nastiness is so high because the stakes are so low...




The entertainment companies stock and trade are intangible capital or assets, so they gird and lawyer up for the fight. Ironically, they can often be pretty amicable afterwards, and even see programs on the networks again after they have sued each other, Hollywood is weird


----------



## Brodie (Aug 28, 2019)

I can understand him wanting his profits (and the Titansgrave IP, if that's indeed owned by them). I just wish he'd get back to doing gaming stuff in video format. G&S has 'Game The Game' and that basically took over the void left by 'Tabletop,' but it's not the same or as entertaining. (Although, Becca Scott's videos on how to play the game are a great introduction to rules...)

Critical Role fled the mess that was G&S and Project Alpha, though for legal reasons (I'm guessing) had to keep showing CR on those platforms. They own their IP, they own their brand, and they're not affiliated the evil corporate overlords anymore. I'd love to see Wheaton come to the new CR for a cameo - or even just work with them - but I have a feeling that won't happen.


----------

