# Experience Point:  Become a Fit-Beard



## Razjah

I game with a group of guys all older than me (recent college grad), all but one are overweight. This sounds terrible, but seeing people who are overweight helps motivate me to stay in shape. I don't want to struggle with stairs when I'm 40. I don't want to go through cycles of getting healthier and then loosing all that work. I don't want to look like a stereotyped gamer. At college I ran a role playing games club to try to help remove the stigma around gaming and offer a place where people won't judge others for their preferred methods of relaxing and having fun. I made sure that my physical appearance didn't allow others to add to their stereotype. 

As a plus, I like seeing the numbers rise. My chin-ups are getting easy, time to increase the reps. I used to run track and cross country in high school, so I'm used to competing against myself, now I compete to work harder and longer instead of running faster.


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## Umbran

Unfortunately, I'm not one of those who has the switch in their heads that turns a workout into a mood-reboot.  I envy those that do.  So, like so many, I have to struggle to find a way to stick to Exercise.

In the past, I have found that having a class structure helped enormously.  While scheduling can be an issue, having a commitment to it beyond, "When I feel like and/or remember to do so" is a good way to motivate.  In addition, having an expert there to encourage and guide is an asset.  That, of course, assumes you have an actual expert, instead of just one more person who works out a lot.  But still, my staples used to be martial arts classes, and later yoga classes, for those reasons.

These days, however, I've found a solution that seems easier to stick to.  My wife and I decided to take part in the "Run For Your Lives" - which is basically a cross-country 5K race, with a lot of mud and zombies trying to steal flags from your belt.  I realized that, in order to really have fun with this, I needed to be able to at least run 5K.  Or at least jog it, non-stop.  Having a goal, i sought a method.  Enter "Couch to 5K".  C25K is a well-thought-out path from having little to no exercise, to being able to run/jog for a solid half-hour without breaks, without all that mucking around in "I can't do this" and "Ouch, I hurt myself".

Setting unrealistic initial goals and injury are major issues for anyone picking up an exercise regimen.  Most folk overestimate what they can do, and when they can't they get discouraged, and start avoiding exercise or making excuses and rationalizations.  Or, they get hurt, bench themselves, and have to start from scratch.  C25K never set a goal for me I couldn't meet.  Each week I'd look at it, and think, "Okay, this is the week I fail."  And, it'd be hard, but, I'd manage it.  And that, my friends, feels *good*.

But then, I met the goal, went on the Run.  Now what?  What's to motivate me?  Without the very concrete goal, it became harder to motivate myself to continue running.

Enter audiobooks.  If I find a good audiobook (the Boston Public Library has a fine selection of genre titles), and only listen when I'm running, I find that to be a motivator ("Gee, I want to know what happens next... well, I guess I gotta go run, then!").  This, of course, fails when I get hold of a crappy audiobook, an issue I haven't fully conquered yet :/

Another major way to get my exercise in has been to work it into my commute.  I live in the Boston area, and use public transportation to get to work.  The basic form has me walking a few minutes to get to the bus stop, taking the bus to the subway, and grabbing the subway downtown.  It is simple and effective.  However, I do have to leave home a few minutes early to catch that bus, and the bus isn't terribly direct.  I found that, on average, just *walking* to the subway took only 10 minutes more than taking the bus!  That gets me a 2.5 mile walk before work, and another after work, when the weather is good.  Five miles more on my feet each day  is excellent, but it means I go through shoes rather more quickly than before.


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## Mark CMG

Excellent blog!  I'd be the first to say that losing weight would be a good idea for myself and many other gamers.  I know my friend Mark (Buzz on EN World) has done a tremendous job bringing his weight down over the past couple of years and he wasn't really as large as many gamers, myself included.  I see from your link that you coach beyond just the physical.  My brother, a former Intl figure skater (toured with Holiday on Ice in Central America and Europe for a time) became a physical trainer for a number of years after retiring from the skating game.  It's a tough career in which to compete these days (as is family/marriage counselling), as there are so many specific areas in which to focus.  Can I ask in what areas your training and education is concentrated?


*edit* Damn.  Can't XP right now as I've hit my 24 hour max.


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## NotZenon

As a self styled 'fitness nerd' I enjoyed this article.   Fitocracy i found fun at first, but quickly got bored of it.  Once you've completed most of the quests it just becomes and XP grind. 

One of the things i've always found interesting is having fellow nerds and players write themselves up as 'characters'.  Or more specifically what i'm getting at is perception of fitness.  Its often the out of shape people will give themselves a pretty high Con for example because "i'm pretty healthy"  - but those of us who have been exercising for years often have a more realistic view - or then again maybe we have a more 'perfectionist' view and are too hard on ourselves.


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## Morrus

It definitely becomes harder as you get older; and you have to watch the "stealth" weight gain (happening so slowly over a few years that you don't notice until it's too late).  I'm lucky in that I've never been overweight, but now I have to watch what I eat, whereas I did nothing of the sort in my 20s/early 30s.  If I didn't, I'm sure the weight would creep up.

Giving up smoking also made things more difficult; the urge to snack instead of smoke is very strong.


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## FickleGM

ZUMBA!


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## Mary_Crowell

Yes, it has definitely gotten harder to stay in shape as I've gotten  older. I've always had to fight to keep my weight down though, so at  least I know what I'm in for somewhat.

For me it's making sure there is enough variety in the types of exercise I do. If it's all yoga all the time, I keep the flexibility but the muscles and endurance aren't there as much as I'd like. If it's all weight training all the time, I start to love climbing stairs and lifting piano keyboards but have to be careful or I lose the flexibility in my quadriceps. (That makes my knees hurt.) If I don't take walks I start to lose endurance. Most of all too much of any of these types of exercise makes me get bored and then stop all together. Then I'm an unhealthy mess, because the rest of the time I'm at my piano keyboard, computer keyboard, or the gaming table (which really ought to have a keyboard just to keep things consistent.)

One of the best things I did was hire a personal trainer. She constantly changes exercises up to keep it interesting and challenging for me. And knowing I have an appointment to meet someone means I am less likely to find an excuse not to work out.


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## Hypersmurf

I still remember making you do pushups at my first GenCon 

-Hyp.


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## Dannyalcatraz

I've struggled with my weight my whole post-pubescent life.  Part of it is my penchant for sedentary activities (oxymoron alert!), part is genetics.  Even at my peak of fitness, when I was a real gym rat, etc., I carried 193lbs on my 5'7" frame.  And yes, I was fit: 300lb+ bench press, 3 leg-press sets of 10 reps at 700lbs, and _juuust_ capable of touching the iron on a regulation-height basketball goal.

(According to my MD, I literally _am_ big-boned, with about 10% more bone & muscle mass than average: at that point, my _0% _body fat weight was 170 lbs- more than 20lbs more than is normal for someone with a healthy body fat ratio that height.)

Its not that I don't like physical activity, its just that other things intervene and take priority.  Not an excuse, just a fact.

This year, though, marked the third consecutive year I had put on weight- something I hadn't done since I was a teenager.  So I have resolved to do something about it.  But I couldn't just jump into the same old stuff I was doing a few years ago.  My schedule is different, along with so many other things.  And if you've been away from exercise too long, you can kill yourself by ramping up too quickly.  That's how Patrick Nagel died.

So, what to do?

Well, I have a pair of Border Collies who were not getting enough socialization or exercise.  Killing 2 or 3 birds with one stone, we've gone on daily walks of 1 mile + for 38 of the past 42 days.  IOW, my recent exercise regime has been working against the forces of a 2 dogpower, 8 paw drive engine with terrible controls for 20 minutes a day.

While I have improved the tone of my leg muscles, its our older dog who has seen the most improvement: her harness is no longer tight and in need of letting out, but instead, now has at least @ 3/4" of play where once there was none.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Accidental double post


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## Umbran

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And yes, I was fit: 300lb+ bench press, 3 leg-press sets of 10 reps at 700lbs, and _juuust_ capable of touching the iron on a regulation-height basketball goal.




This is an excellent place to raise a point.  "Fit" doesn't have a single meaning.  What Danny describes here is one type of fitness - physical strength.  This is different from, say, cardiovascular fitness (which he may also have had, I wouldn't know).  And you *can* have one form of fitness without others.  I know guys who can bench press more than I, but I can outrun them, for example.



> Well, I have a pair of Border Collies who were not getting enough socialization or exercise.  Killing 2 or 3 birds with one stone, we've gone on daily walks of 1 mile + for 38 of the past 42 days.  IOW, my recent exercise regime has been working against the forces of a 2 dogpower, 8 paw drive engine with terrible controls for 20 minutes a day.




That, sir, is awesome!  Good for you, and good for the pooches, in more ways than one, since exercise has psychological benefits for active breeds like border collies.


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## Razjah

Umbran said:


> But then, I met the goal, went on the Run.  Now what?  What's to motivate me?  Without the very concrete goal, it became harder to motivate myself to continue running.
> 
> Enter audiobooks.  If I find a good audiobook (the Boston Public Library has a fine selection of genre titles), and only listen when I'm running, I find that to be a motivator ("Gee, I want to know what happens next... well, I guess I gotta go run, then!").  This, of course, fails when I get hold of a crappy audiobook, an issue I haven't fully conquered yet :/




This is an awesome idea. It is a great way to increase ways to exercise without increasing the drudgery of exercising. I may need to give this a try since I can't stand running to music after years of being taught and trained not to use music. 

Also, your point about an exercise class structure to make a commitment is really good. It works really well to ensure someone exercises. Even making a commitment to a friend to meet at a gym, park, or somewhere else for exercise.


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## Rel

Thanks tons for all the comments!  I'll hit a few highlights by way of response:

Razjah, keep up the good work.  I've heard more than one person say that they went on a diet immediately following GenCon.  Whatever works in terms of motivation.

Umbran, I'm currently training to do the Warrior Dash this June on my 42nd birthday so I know how such events can help motivate.

Mark, I'm a Life & Relationship Coach.  I've got some certifications for working with couples using the same training that the clergy get to do pre-marital and marriage counseling.  But I find that a lot of my work centers on helping people with time management, career focus, and work/life balance issues.  Fitness is one of those things that kind of enters the picture along the way because it is an important part of living a balanced life.  I don't claim to be a personal trainer or anything like that.  But when it comes to finding ways to motivate, schedule and be accountable for basic fitness, I'm good at those parts.

NotZenon, I'll keep that in mind.  I'm not even remotely close to putting a big dent in the available quests and achievements on Fitocracy.  Congrats on doing so!

Morrus, I have found the same with aging.  I don't really want to reform my diet so I'd better get my butt exercising. 

Mary, I've heard that from lots of folks that they get bored, especially doing the treadmill thing like I do.  I tailor my advice to whatever works best for the client but, for me, having it be known and easily consistent is a big help.

Hyp, that game was epic.  And yes, I was proud to be able to do a few pushups on demand.  Even with my baby arms! 

Danny, dog walks are a great way for me to get exercise too.  I discovered that they are killing way too many birds for me to ignore them.  I consider the walks through my neighborhood to be meditation time (in fact I even wrote a column about that).  Plus it makes the dog happy and that makes my wife happy.  The exercise is almost gravy!  Mmmm....gravy...


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## Dannyalcatraz

> I know guys who can bench press more than I, but I can outrun them, for example.




In my case, genetic advantages for bodybuilding aside, I found I was too slow to outrun my bullies, so I had to defend myself.  I never learned any formal fighting styles, but between my strength and my willingness & ability to escalate the comfrontation asymmetrically to their aggression?

Lets just say that, after a certain age, most of my tormentors stopped trying _physical_ confrontations...


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## Umbran

Dannyalcatraz said:


> In my case, genetic advantages for bodybuilding aside, I found I was too slow to outrun my bullies, so I had to defend myself.




My comment was perhaps misleading.  I am, by no means, a small, fast person.  I'm naturally in the "built to lift heavy objects" category myself, and I'm no sprinter.  However, I've been training to jog for half an hour nonstop.  Most weightlifters I know slack on the cardio.  They can lift more than me, but they are winded after a lap around the track, and I just keep chugging along.



> I never learned any formal fighting styles, but between my strength and my willingness & ability to escalate the comfrontation asymmetrically to their aggression?
> 
> Lets just say that, after a certain age, most of my tormentors stopped trying _physical_ confrontations...




I didn't pick up anything formal until I got into grad school - I took up a martial arts class offered at my university because I realized how much of a toll a summer spent doing research had taken on my health.  My high school defense was being larger than the star quarterback, and generally pleasant demeanor.


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## Dannyalcatraz

> My comment was perhaps misleading.



No, I wasn't thinking of you as Speedy Gonzales!

I was just saying that I had neither speed NOR endurance.  I graduated from HS at 5'3", 250lbs.  I was essentially a bowling ball on teeny-tiny little legs!  

(Or, as one HS coach put it, I was a human fireplug.)

 While most of my buddies were growing up, I grew across.  Hell- when I finally hit 5'7", my shoulder size was the same as my 6'3" tall buddy.


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## Razjah

Oh, another tip for those looking to get into fitness- load screens and commercials make excellent times to do exercises. Regularly do some type of ab workout during the breaks of movies or tv shows at night. 

Another thing, I found to help is working out right before I shower. I don't like feeling gross, but working out when I am about to shower helps me get in some exercise and then get clean right afterward. Plus I can use the hot water to massage any sore areas from previous days.


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## Stormonu

Sitting in at 270 lbs (pun intended) and just barely making 6' with my shoes on, I've been trying to find some way to get the poundage off.  I'd kill to be back down to 187 lbs.  It's extremely disheartening coming from a time when folks used to poke fun about being able to see my ribs to my wife poking fun at my "Budda belly."

I've tried to set myself up with changing my diet and getting in at least some exercise.  I've only had one coke in about 2 weeks, drinking most no-sugar-added fruit juices and trying to ween off that towards pure water.  I've been trying to do two 15-minute walks at work during my break, but the way things have been, either some work emergency comes up thwarting me or my boss makes me feel like I have to sneak out to get the exercise.  And of course, by the time I get home, I'm usually too mentally tired to try anything (and this time of the year, too dark).

Overall, I'd say the biggest problem I have is I don't feel like anyone wants to help me lose the weight.  And I'm the kind of person who thrives on moral support.  While I know it is up to me to fix this problem, I've never had to worry about trying to lose weight before and I just don't know what to do.  In a way, it feels like everything is working against me.

In May, we'll be going Walt Disney World.  I'd love to just be able to walk the length of Epcot without it killing me.  Right now, a hike up 3 flights of stairs and I sound like a steam engine pulling into station.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Keep doing those stairs!  Those will help you melt away faster than you think.

The last trip to Europe I took was to Russia; Moscow & St. Petersburg.  Not only did we walk everywhere, we took stairs nearly everywhere except the Boeing offices.  The Fedoskino Porcelain factory tour _started _ by going up 5 stories by stairs.

I lost nearly a pound per day on that trip.


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## Razjah

Stormonu said:


> Overall, I'd say the biggest problem I have is I don't feel like anyone wants to help me lose the weight.  And I'm the kind of person who thrives on moral support.  While I know it is up to me to fix this problem, I've never had to worry about trying to lose weight before and I just don't know what to do.  In a way, it feels like everything is working against me.




Have you talked to your wife/family/friends/playgroup asking for some support and explain how you feel demoralized and it is making your fitness goals more difficult? That may help get those close to you to add their support and possibly even join you.


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## nnms

Umbran said:


> This is an excellent place to raise a point.  "Fit" doesn't have a single meaning.  What Danny describes here is one type of fitness - physical strength.  This is different from, say, cardiovascular fitness (which he may also have had, I wouldn't know).




If doing something winds you it's not because you have fitness shortcomings in the cardiovascular area, it's because the activity is beyond the muscles you are using and your body increases blood flow and then breathing in response.  

For example, if you start running every day you'll find 90 days later that you have far more "endurance" for running that when you started, but the reason for this will be because of gains in your muscles on the outside of your skeleton more-so than any actual improvement in heart or lung performance.  There will be heart and lung performance improvements, but they'll be making a minor contribution to your overall ability to run.  

At this point if you want the same exercise for your heart, you'll need to increase the intensity or the length of the exercise.  Or better yet, increase the intensity and then find another type of exercise for muscle groups you don't yet have developed whose use will get your heart racing again just like day 1 of the running.  I'd recommend adding body weight calisthenics.

Basically separating fitness into categories is old science that's been outmoded.  The average person absent of medical conditions is already, for most definitions of the word, cardiovascularly fit.  Their heart and lungs are capable of supplying their body with oxygen well, well beyond what they use.  The thing that prevents them from meeting targets in a fitness test related to running, rowing or other "endurance" exercises is not a shortfall in the fitness of their cardiovascular system, but in the muscles actually used to perform the exercises.

Instead of creating separate categories, people have found it's better to take a goal oriented approach that's a bit more holistic.  There are many health benefits related to increasing your heart rate on a regular basis.  If you can lift weights like a demon, but jogging winds you, then that might be a sign that you're not taking a whole body approach to fitness.  Same thing goes if you can run for miles but picking up a milk jug sends your pulse racing.


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## Dannyalcatraz

The best structured exercise programs I ever did was when I alternated doing upper body power exercises and lower body endurance exercises one day followed by upper body endurance exercises and lower body power exercises on the subsequent visit.

That way, I was working my whole body for power and endurance, but the alternating isolation of upper & lower let me do so at a fairly aggressive pace without killing myself.


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## pogre

A few years ago I shed a bunch of weight. Following the football season I thought I had torn a tendon in my knee - it was killing me. Sadly, I had no excuse as I'm a coach not a player these days. So, I mentioned it to our staff trainer and mentioned I also was struggling with some back pain. He looked my knee over and said, "Coach, it's possible you have a torn meniscus (sp?), but really one of your problems is you are a fatass."

No, I didn't fire him  He is still on our staff today actually.

I dropped 60 pounds, back to my highschool weight and have never suffered any knee or back pain since. That was five years ago and I let a couple of pounds (8 to be exact) get back on my frame this winter, but I'm back on the horse. 

I guess what I wanted to share is mere cosmetics was never enough incentive for me to drop weight and exercise. I really didn't mind being overweight and my wife and kids didn't care either. What has helped me stay on the straight and narrow is being pain free.


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## Dannyalcatraz

The key for many is finding a reason for change that they can internalize.  I'm glad you found yours!


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## Umbran

nnms said:


> If doing something winds you it's not because you have fitness shortcomings in the cardiovascular area, it's because the activity is beyond the muscles you are using and your body increases blood flow and then breathing in response.




Perhaps I wasn't clear.  My point is simply that one can train muscles to life great weights in very short bursts.  One can also train my muscles for longer-duration, lower-output activities.  The two do *not* come as a single package - you can jog all day, and that won't give my legs the "explosive strength" to do impressive standing long jumps.  Those guys who go and lift heavy weights in short sets simply cannot keep up with me on the track, and I can't lift like they can.  



> Basically separating fitness into categories is old science that's been outmoded.




Yes and no.  The categories are a result of styles of activity, whether you want them or not.  If you want "general health and fitness" there's a lot to be said for not training too much in any one area, true.  But by extension, then, if you follow a single form of training, you do *not* become generally fit - you get trained in a single activity.  Your marathon runners are not weightlifters.  Who knew?



> Instead of creating separate categories, people have found...




Um, "people" is non-specific, and not an indication of expertise.  "People" believe all sorts of untrue things, I'm sorry to say.


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## Rel

Stormonu said:


> Overall, I'd say the biggest problem I have is I don't feel like anyone wants to help me lose the weight.  And I'm the kind of person who thrives on moral support.  While I know it is up to me to fix this problem, I've never had to worry about trying to lose weight before and I just don't know what to do.  In a way, it feels like everything is working against me.




Social support and accountability is one of the single best motivators at every stage of forming new habits.  If joining our Fitocracy group would help you then please do so.  Or don't hesitate to contact me directly.  I'll help you any way I can.  These kinds of changes are really difficult to tackle alone but they can have an enormous impact on your quality of life.


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## nnms

Umbran said:


> Um, "people" is non-specific, and not an indication of expertise.  "People" believe all sorts of untrue things, I'm sorry to say.




Consider my eyes rolled.  I figured that the utility of goal setting and the health benefits of a whole body approach to fitness had hit the point of common knowledge, but I'm still shocked at how much 1960s era exercise science is still engrained in people's brains.  If you want to learn more, get yourself access to a periodical database and start reading up on the current peer reviewed research.

Below are some things that people might actually find useful in terms of reducing body fat and improving their fitness level that I won't back up with references.  And I'm going to use "people" a lot too because this is about humans.  Even if Umbran doesn't like it.

1) Fat on your body has roughly 3500 calories of energy in it per pound.

2) While some exercise can burn upwards of 1000-1500 calories in a single hour, maintaining that intensity is difficult for most people.  So if you only end up burning about 500 calories per hour of exercise, you can still lose a pound every second week from exercise alone if you did half an hour a day.

3) A single bad meal can have 1500, 2000 or even more calories in it.  If a person's goal is to reduce their body fat, a single meal can undo an entire weeks work.  The first step in fat loss is getting your eating under control.  If people hit the intensity needed to burn 1500 calories an hour and do that every day, they can undo all that hard work by overeating in the form of an extra sugary snack, a can of pop/soda, a late night snack and a lack of proper portion sizes at lunch and dinner.  An hour of literally working your ass off can bring you no closer to your goal as a result of bad food choices.

4) If people find when they start exercising they are gasping and their heart is racing, it's not because they have a weakness in their cardiovascular fitness.  Your lungs and heart, barring other medical complications, are sufficient to supply you with all the oxygen rich blood you need.  The shortfall is in the muscles you are using to do the exercise.  And this is a good thing, even if it is unpleasant!  The increased heart rate allows people to burn fat after burning through the glycogen in their bodies.  And as you do an exercise over an extended period of time, you'll find that it demands less and less of your heart and lungs as the muscles you use to do it strengthen.

5) What people find is the best approach is to get used to being uncomfortable.  If your goal is to experience the health benefits of an increased heart rate than you are going to have to experience the unpleasant effects of exercising muscles beyond their current abilities.  If your muscles strengthen to the point where your exercise choices become easy and you no longer feel uncomfortable as a result, congratulate yourself for you progress, but it's time to increase the intensity and change the muscle groups you are exercising.

6) Another major advantage people find of taking a whole body approach to their fitness is that it reduces injuries and the stress of repetitive motion.  Lots of people find that regular running or jogging ends up being hard on their joints.  And as your muscles related to a single exercise strengthen, the greater intensity will also mean a great amount of force that is applied to your joints.  Constantly switching the muscles on your body that you exercise gives your muscles time to recover.  People find it also gives them an easier opportunity to elevate their heart rate as they don't become used to the exercises they have chosen as quickly (as they are constantly changing).  People also find it helps them stay motivated and interested as things are constantly new.

And if you think any of the above is wrong, do your own research.


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## Libramarian

NotZenon said:


> One of the things i've always found interesting is having fellow nerds and players write themselves up as 'characters'.  Or more specifically what i'm getting at is perception of fitness.  Its often the out of shape people will give themselves a pretty high Con for example because "i'm pretty healthy"  - but those of us who have been exercising for years often have a more realistic view - or then again maybe we have a more 'perfectionist' view and are too hard on ourselves.




But they have cast-iron stomachs, they can eat anything! 

From Sept-Dec last year I did the P90X workout program which is kind of a mixture between the modern whole body approach and the old school hour and a half every day approach. The exercise volume was stupidly high IMO and I don't think I'll be doing it ever again.

I didn't have a followup in place so since then I haven't done much exercise and have probably lost most of my gains. I've done 4 or 5 of the early p90x workouts for maintenance during the last two months.

I've actually continued to lose weight -- I'm down to 193 from 200 since the end of the program.

I've heard that exercise is not actually very useful for losing weight, because it makes you hungrier which tends to erase the calorie expenditure unless your eating is tightly controlled. Of course if the reason you want to lose weight is for overall health, exercise is still a good idea because it has other health benefits not tied to weight loss.


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## nnms

Having gains eroded by eating is probably the most frustrating part of trying to lose body fat.  Body fat is stored energy, so there's not too many ways of getting rid of it that don't involve expending energy.

In the end though, success or failure will depend on a change in life style.  And the acceptance that this is a long term issue.  Anyone who has struggled with their weight on a long term basis just need to think back five years and imagine if they did half an hour of moderate exercise every day and got their food under control.  They'd easily weigh 75+ pounds lighter (assuming that much fat is there to lose).  That's what's possible over the next few years.  It's not an easy road to start on, but if you're going to be around five years from now, how do you see your life then?  How do you want it to be?

While fitness and exercise are not primarily about weight loss, excessive body fat combined with a sedentary life style is asking for massive problems down the road-- on top of the issues it causes right here and now.

We don't need expensive equipment.  We can do everything we need to be healthy using our own body weight.  Some simple equipment can certainly help, but the most important thing is to start moving and getting eating under control.


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## Umbran

nnms said:


> Consider my eyes rolled.




You might want to hold that thought just a moment...

Because, for all your supposed shock, and for your suggestions that I need to go elsewhere to learn more, you show a striking lack of comprehension of what I wrote.

To wit - _I am not disagreeing with you_. 

You are busy talking about what is good for the body.  I am talking about what you can do to your body with specific, focused forms of exercise.  These are in no way at odds, sir.  All I am saying is that you can become highly trained and "fit" in one area, if you focus on one kind of training.  A whole slew of Olympic athletes kind of prove my point - you don't see the weightlifters also competing in the marathons.  They are specialized.

Do you disagree with that point - that, for example, it is possible to turn yourself into a remarkable weightlifter, who isn't much of a runner?  No?  

Then don't roll your eyes at me.  It's rude.


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## Bedrockgames

I was always pretty fit. Until recently I had a number of physical fitness hobbies that kept me feeling good. But I did get sick two years ago and had to stop. So I went from 1-3 hours of exercise on a good day to 0. To adapt I cut down what I ate and didn't gain any weight. In fact I lost weight and muscle. So in the last couple weeks I have slowly and carefully tried to exercise again. My goal now isn't hours, if I can get twenty to thirty minutes of light exercise I think that is all I really need. Most of what I did before was martial arts and boxing, with some weight training and daily runs. Now I just do light shadow boxing, stretches and light weights.


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## Dausuul

I always struggled with motivating myself to go to the gym. Finally I said "Screw this, I'm going to do something fun," and I quit the gym and found a local ballroom dance studio. I've wanted to learn tango ever since watching "True Lies" in college, and the studio I picked has a deal where you get to participate in all the group lessons for free as long as you're taking a certain number of one-on-one lessons.

Now I exercise for an hour and a half every weeknight, and two and a half on Fridays... not that I think of it as exercise. I'm always learning new things, it engages both my mind and my body, I get to show off my fancy dance moves at performances*, and dancing beats heck out of moving iron up and down or running endlessly to nowhere. My endurance has improved substantially without me even thinking about it.

That said, I'll be the first to admit it's not really high-intensity exercise, and it's not an effective way to lose weight unless you're going to become a professional dancer and do it eight, ten, twelve hours a day. In my experience, weight loss is much more about controlling what you eat than it is about exercising.

*Don't worry, you don't have to do performances if you don't want to.


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## Bedrockgames

I do think the key is to find an activity you enjoy. Exercise should be something you look forward to.


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## epochrpg

I begun this quest to get fit myself relatively recently.  I can talk about the techniques I used at some other point, but now I want to chime in about motive. 

A key component of my success (I have lost over 60 lbs) vis-a-vis incentive was my wife pledging to game with me every time I lost 5lbs; and that she'd game once every two weeks once I got below a certain weight (which I am now below).  I have tried to lose weight before; when there was money, etc. on the line; but that was never much of an incentive.  Suddenly, though, my wife who was not a gamer, was telling me she would game with us; and all I had to do was lose 5 lbs.  So I gave it a go; and I went like never before.  I started off simply: stopped having seconds at meals, stopped eating by 9pm everyday, and began taking short walks every day.  Within a couple weeks, I had done it, and my wife was making her character for our game. 

Once she was in game, talking in her oh-so-corny Scottish accent (we had just seen Brave, and her character is named Merida) I was hooked.  That got me to step up my diet and exercise goals (gradually; that is the key to gradually increase them) to ensure that she would be back in two-three weeks.  It's been seven months, and she hasn't missed a gaming session.

Now, at first, for me; the big motivation was getting my wife to play RPGs with us, because it was something in my life that I loved, and she was a person who I loved, and I wanted to have them both at once.  But as I kept going, and as I began seeing improvements in myself (and I don't mean body shape; I mean feeling better about my ability move without wheezing, etc) I began doing this _for me_.

If you've got 9 minutes, there's a little RPG-esque video I'd like to share with you (but perhaps you've seen it):

[video=youtube;nUvngte0d3E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUvngte0d3E[/video]

Now look at the end.  The whole time, the heroes were on their journey seeking "The Reward" but in the end, the Reward was how they felt when they looked at themselves in the mirror; how strong and experienced they had become, the journey itself was the reward.  And that's how it gets to be with fitness.  At some point, this changes from doing this for someone or something, into doing it for yourself.  

Now for you, a good motive might not be a partner coming to game with you.  For my wife, that wasn't something she needed.  For her, each "milestone" she hit, she got an "unlockable" which has included various things, like Mani-Pedi to new cieling fans for the house, etc.  But for her; who only really began this for moral support (she was not nearly as overweight as I was, and she didn't want those things as badly as I wanted her to come to RPG night) she has begun wanting to keep doing this, just for herself.  Just this morning, after we left the gym, she said "I feel AMAZING right now".  It eventually changes from "what I want" to "how I feel" and that's the point where you get committed to it.  

Now, someone may need to make alterations.  For instance, if you don't have a significant other you badly want to come to game, maybe you have a friend or relative who you'd like to make the same committment (and would be willing to).  Maybe the GM in your gaming group might make a deal with you, where everytime you unlock a milestone the entire group gets a new magic item.  That ought to put a lot of people in your corner.  

Also, I've had support and help from people outside of gaming, I got a lot of support from people on facebook, etc. when I share my running or other fitness activities.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Amusing side-effect of my nightly dog-drag: we live in a suburb that has a surprising amount of wildlife- one of our neighbors had a problem with beavers in the nearby wetland building up a lodge and starting to flood his backyard- and so we see all kinds of things around.

Well, the bunnies come out at night.

I tend to walk the dogs at night.  Late.

So, more than once, we've seen our share of bunnies...including a couple of evenings where there were a multitude spread out all over the lawns on the side of the street we were on.  As we advanced, our trio (each of us wearing a 6-bulb LED light) was spotted, and they would hop ahead to the next lawn to avoid us.  But they remained on our intended path.  Well, the net effect was that, as we continued on our walk, the crowd of bunnies hopping ahead of us grew in numbers with each house we passed.  

If someone had been watching, we would have looked like we were herding bunnies.


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## Mishihari Lord

I think it's important to find an approach that fits with how you want to live your life.  There are a lot of effective ways to lose weight and become fit, but that doesn't mean they're all good for you.  

The one that really worked for me was Body for Life.  I like to run, I like to lift, I like eating small frequent meals rather than few large ones, and I was able to do all that.  Not to mention that the program gives you one day off from the diet per week, which was really important to my following it for the long term.  

I'm 6'2" and I dropped from 230 to 200 in about 12 weeks.  I wasn't in bad shape before doing it; I've always been into running/hiking/skating/swimming and I was very serious about weight lifting at the time, but I hit the 30 year old metabolism slowdown and suddenly started gaining weight and thought I'd better do something about it.


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## exile

This is a topic that's near and dear to my heart. First, a little about myself. I am 37 years old. I have been a fantasy geek for as long as I can remember. I started gaming with the D&D red box when I was 8 years old. I still game on an almost weekly basis. When I was young, I played outside a lot. As I got older, I studied Tae Kwon Do and played some tennis in high school. By no means, was I ever considered an "athlete," but I wasn't in bad shape either. During college, I started getting pudgy. Then, during my junior year, I decided to do something about it. I signed up for a 'training for the mini-marathon' class, and I fell in love with running. I ran regularly for the rest of college and the first couple of years of medical school. I also biked and swam pretty regularly, even lifted some weights. Unfortunately, toward the middle of medical school, I decided that I wanted to be a general surgeon, and that I needed to work harder at school to get a general surgery residency. My working out fell to nothing... and stayed there for the rest of medical school, five years of residency, and the first 4+ years of private practice.

As I was preparing for my oral board exam, I noticed that my weight had ballooned from 155# to 230#. I decided that I had to do something about it (and that being in better physical shape might make me sharper for said exam). At present, I play a lot of Pathfinder, specifically Pathfinder Society, so I asked myself this-- what would I have to be able to do to be a member of a real-world Pathfinder Society? The first step, I decided, was that I would have to be in better shape.

February 2012, I started running again. At first, I couldn't do much more than two miles at a time, and that was slow (For the record, I'm still pretty slow). To motivate myself, I would pretend that I was being chased by a troll, specifically the one on the front cover of the Pathfinder Bestiary. When I passed the aforementioned exam, I felt like my life was finally my own again. I signed up for a Warrior Dash. Shortly after that, a friend from college talked me into signing up for Tough Mudder. I did both races and loved them. Along the way, I started adding calisthenics to my runs-- pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups.

I've lost from 230# down to about 210#. I'd like to lose a lot more (but I have a love affair with food). I don't have to flee imaginary trolls anymore, but I have signed up for many more races. I did a plain old 5k last December. I ran another 5k obstacle course yesterday. My longest run since getting back into this has been 18-20 miles. I'm able to do a long run about every three-four weeks. Unfortunately, my work just doesn't allow me to do it as frequently as I did during college and the early years of medical school (i.e. every other week).

As an aside, I've also decided that a real-world Pathfinder would need more than a fitness baseline. Along those lines, I'm forcing myself to read at least one book every month; I'm learning to shoot and hunt, acquiring guns, even took a concealed carry class. Next on my agenda-- read even more and work on some specific fitness issues (climbing and swimming).

Now, I'm off to check out fitocracy.


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## zegerman

I wouldn't mind some advice on managing the insatiable hunger that follows the early phases of my "I'm really going to get fit this time and stay that way" workouts.  In the first 2-3 weeks, when I'm most in need of seeing results, my appetite pretty much explodes and even focusing on vegetables and high fiber foods to try and get a sense of "fullness" I usually offset my gains and too often it derails the whole project.


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## Bedrockgames

zegerman said:


> I wouldn't mind some advice on managing the insatiable hunger that follows the early phases of my "I'm really going to get fit this time and stay that way" workouts.  In the first 2-3 weeks, when I'm most in need of seeing results, my appetite pretty much explodes and even focusing on vegetables and high fiber foods to try and get a sense of "fullness" I usually offset my gains and too often it derails the whole project.




it is pretty normal to get way more hungry. I used to just drink a low calorie shake or juice right after a work out to curb it. Preparing healthy food for after a work out is also a good idea. I used to make a shake with an orange, egg, and light milk that filled me up for hours (though I would be careful with the egg bit). Basically though it takes discipline to keep from eating everything in sight.


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## nnms

Celery and cabbage are great choices for post-workout hunger.  Eating red cabbage raw after a work out usually works for me.  I also find the key is having them available and ready right away.  Baggies or containers of chopped up veggies that you start munching on as soon as you are cooled down enough to eat.


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## Argyle King

I'm not sure where I find the motivation.  I suppose it is just a natural thing for me.  I grew up in a rural area, so hunting and similar activities were part of my lifestyle while younger.  It's tough to drag a deer several miles if you aren't in shape.  In school I played sports.  Later, I joined the military.  Taking care of myself has always just been a part of the lifestyle I lead.  That's not to say there haven't been times when I've been lazy; there have been, but -overall- it just seems normal to me to take care of myself.  

I think, for me, something that keeps me going is realizing that it doesn't take a lot of change to make a difference.  There are plenty of commercials which advertise insane workouts or extreme diets.  Those things may well certainly work, but I believe they would be intimidating for most people.  I'm also of the belief that a few of those programs are -to some extent- designed for you to fail so that you need to buy more product.  Everyone is going to be different, and what works for me may not work for you, but it's been my experience that a small change can often lead to great results.

For example, consider how much soda an average person drinks in a day.  Then look at how many calories are in one bottle.  Even if there was just one time per day that you decided to drink water rather than a bottle of Mt. Dew (or other drink of choice,) you'd cut somewhere around 240 calories.  That doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up over time.

Likewise, imagine if you took 20 minutes out of your daily routine to do a few push ups when you wake up in the morning, and then do a few more before going to bed at night.  Again, it's not a lot, but that small effort is something which you will notice over time; especially when combined with other small efforts.  To me, I've found that realization to be the most helpful because it encourages me and shows me that I can do it.  You want to enhance the confidence you have that you have control over your health and believe that you can do it rather than feel hopeless and as though the road to a healthy lifestyle is full of impossible hurdles.  Finding that extra 20 minutes I mentioned isn't hard to do.  I'd bet many of us spend more than 20 minutes looking at this website.  

There's more to it than that.  I know there is, but those small changes are a start, and starting is often the hardest part.  Once you get started and find confidence in the fact that you can do something, and you do have the ability to make change, it's easier to take on harder challenges. 

One thing I never do is tell myself I cannot have something.  Maybe it's just me, but when I've done so in the past, I end up just wanting it more, and -in the long run- I just end up binging and defeating my own efforts.  I allow myself to eat whatever I want, but I remain conscious of my portions.  Again, I will go back to the water/soda comment.  I do not tell myself I cannot drink soda at all, but I do tell myself that maybe I shouldn't have so many per day.  

On a side note...  being 'ripped' and having washboard abs doesn't necessarily denote health.  Some of the strongest and most healthy people I know do not look anything like models.  Working out with the purpose of looking good is not always the same thing as working out with the purpose of being in shape.  There certainly is overlap between the two, but there are also a lot of differences.  A good friend of mine; a guy I met through my military service is a world class power lifter.  He does not in any way look like a bodybuilder.  He even has a bit of a gut on him, but he's probably in better overall shape and health than the majority of people I know.  It's important to ask yourself what your goals are for working out.  The steps for achieving one goal may not be the same as the steps for achieving a different goal.  Either way, set goals for yourself.  More importantly, make those goals realistic and realize that drastic change won't be an overnight process.


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## Blackbrrd

I do cross-country skiing in winter and take hikes in the woods and mountains in the summer. When the weather is bad, I go swimming. I do burpees, sit-ups and push-ups while watching GSL. 

The most fun part is the cross-country skiing which I hadn't done much for the last ten years, but it's really a fun way to exercise since you get a really good variation in workload. Heavy going up, medium going on the flat parts and mostly balance training going down. My girlfriend has a GPS she uses to track and it showed 38km/h down one of the steaper slopes. Pretty fast and a bit unsettling on flimsy 2 inch wide cross-country skiis.


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## Jhaelen

Bedrockgames said:


> I do think the key is to find an activity you enjoy. Exercise should be something you look forward to.



And there's my problem, I guess: I feel it's such a terrible waste of time. Unless I can combine it with something I consider worth my time, I will stop earlier or later (usually earlier)... I simply don't enjoy _any_ kind of physical exercise :-(


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## Morrus

Jhaelen said:


> And there's my problem, I guess: I feel it's such a terrible waste of time. Unless I can combine it with something I consider worth my time, I will stop earlier or later (usually earlier)... I simply don't enjoy _any_ kind of physical exercise :-(




It sounds like you need to find a way to actually change your perspective.  Finding exercise tedious or unenjoyable is not particularly unusual; it's by far the biggest impediment to exercise on the planet, and billlions will agree with you.  The hard part is still doing it anyway.

But if you feel it's a waste of time, that's another thing entirely.  It's certainly not a waste of time, any more than working at your job is.  But that's a completely different thing to simply not enjoying it.


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## Umbran

Morrus said:


> It sounds like you need to find a way to actually change your perspective.




Maybe.  But we also sometimes forget that we aren't just rational beings, but are often subject to our own neurobiology.

Animals (including ourselves) are build with expectation of a certain amount of exercise inherent in out lives.  Normally, there should be zero extra effort - just going about life should provide the requires activity.  If anything, animals need mechanisms to make sure we don't throw away energy frivolously, as getting food is difficult at times.  We do have some mechanisms to make activity pleasant, as well.  We have these in some competition, and the balance point between them will be different in each individual (and can vary for different types of activity).

What do you do if your body is built with a heavy weighting to the mechanisms that encourage saving energy?  Your body and brain reward you with pleasant feelings when you're at rest, and outright unpleasant sensations when you're active.  Imagine that exercise feels like you're being whacked with a stick.  Even if you know, intellectually, that the pain is good for you, how long do you expect folks to continue with the habit? 

Before you answer - how many people do you know that continue to smoke cigarettes, fully knowing that it is bad for them?  We are talking about very similar mechanisms, neurologically speaking, and changing your perspective doesn't get you past your own neurology.


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## Morrus

Umbran said:


> Before you answer - how many people do you know that continue to smoke cigarettes, fully knowing that it is bad for them?  We are talking about very similar mechanisms, neurologically speaking, and changing your perspective doesn't get you past your own neurology.




I'm not clear what I'm meant to answer (I wasn't claiming it was easy or anything; or that that was all there was to it; merely that he'd identified one obstacle and that it needed addressing) but the cigarette example just happens to be one I can relate to personally.  I quit after 20 years last June.  The thing that did it for me was exactly that - changing my perspective.  I somehow convinced myself -finally - that I was _gaining_ health, not _losing_ cigarettes.  The moment I wasn't viewing it as a sacrifice, I found it easy; it was making that perceptual change that took me 20 years.  But that's one one personal anecdote - don't mistake that for a claim that it is universally transferable or anything.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Congratulations on that!


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## nnms

The best thing about neurobiology is that we can manipulate it.  For example, it is common among obese people to eat food while not paying attention to it.  In FMRI studies, they tend to get the least actual satisfaction from food when they eat it.  

But if you simply adopt the practice of only eating when you can pay complete attention to the food, you'll actually change how your brain processes the activity.  If you sit down, no music, no TV, no intense conversation and relax while you slowly enjoy your food, you'll change your brain.  

Same goes with exercise.  There are all sorts of happy chemical effects regular exercise has on your brain, but the only way to get those is by actually doing it.  Regular exercise is one of the best ways to realize that nothing you do is a waste of time because *you *are the one choosing to do it.  And you are reason enough.


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## Ratskinner

Morrus said:


> It definitely becomes harder as you get older; and you have to watch the "stealth" weight gain (happening so slowly over a few years that you don't notice until it's too late).  I'm lucky in that I've never been overweight, but now I have to watch what I eat, whereas I did nothing of the sort in my 20s/early 30s.  If I didn't, I'm sure the weight would creep up.
> 
> Giving up smoking also made things more difficult; the urge to snack instead of smoke is very strong.




It gets even worse when other injuries or conditions pile up on you. I love to jog, but some issues keep haunting me: Get a gout attack -> spend time laid up -> get plantar fasciatus/back problem/torn cartilage -> spend more time laid up -> gain some weight... rinse and repeat until you are very frustrated with your physical condition. (Although, I'm not even in the worst shape in my group...sad to say.)

Still we shouldn't complain too much about getting older...its better than the alternative.


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## Ratskinner

nnms said:


> But if you simply adopt the practice of only eating when you can pay complete attention to the food, you'll actually change how your brain processes the activity.  If you sit down, no music, no TV, no intense conversation and relax while you slowly enjoy your food, you'll change your brain.




That's very interesting. I may give that a whirl.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Here's something that may help you get that focus: when you eat, think like a cook and try to identify the flavors & ingredients in the food you're eating.


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## nnms

[MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION] -That is totally a great technique for paying attention to your food.  You can also think about textures as well.

Another great technique is to get yourself some whole grain bread and some olive oil (a couple teaspoons at most) and as an appetizer eat the whole grain bread dipped in the olive oil.  Wait a couple of minutes after you are done the piece of bread before you put food on your plate.  You might notice without any effort that you'll reduce your portion sizes.

Another good thing to do is to change which meal is the largest of each day to be breakfast.  At the very least, never, ever skip it:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090615/skip-breakfast-get-fat


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## Jhaelen

Morrus said:


> But if you feel it's a waste of time, that's another thing entirely.  It's certainly not a waste of time, any more than working at your job is.  But that's a completely different thing to simply not enjoying it.



Well, I actually enjoy working at my job, so I don't consider it a waste of time in general. There are however certain activities that are required in my job (say: paperwork) that I consider to distract me from doing my _real_ job, so I try to finish them as quickly and efficiently as possible.

To me even activities like eating or going to the toilet are a waste of time. So, in order to turn them into something 'productive' I try to always have something to read handy. Whenever I have a couple of minutes, I read.
For this reason, I think, maybe Umbran's idea of listening to an audio book while exercising might work for me. It would allow me to do something 'productive' insteading of just wasting precious time.


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## nnms

By all means, do that!  Hopefully after you exercise regularly enough, what you get from it will show you that you're ideas about what is productive and what's not don't necessarily map to reality.


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## Morrus

Jhaelen said:


> To me even activities like eating ... are a waste of time.




That's unfortunate.  I don't think it would be controversial to note that you're definitely an outlier.


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## Kingreaper

Jhaelen said:


> And there's my problem, I guess: I feel it's such a terrible waste of time. Unless I can combine it with something I consider worth my time, I will stop earlier or later (usually earlier)... I simply don't enjoy _any_ kind of physical exercise :-(



I have the same problem

My approach is to remind myself that I may not enjoy the exercise, but I enjoy the time AFTER the exercise, when my endorphin levels and metabolism are heightened.


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## Charles Dunwoody

I've lost twenty pounds over the last eight weeks and I plan to start running again (5ks) in the spring. I work out two ways.

1.) I work out at lunch at work (we have a fitness room). I save money (I can then buy an RPG if I save enough), I don't waste my lunch time, and I get fit.

2.) I ride the exercise bike at home and watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer on Netflix.

I also gave up caffeine and have changed my diet quite a bit. While I still have pizza every once in a while I eat a lot more veggies and fruits and I drink a lot of water. I've stopped eating out (again saves money and helps me stay fit) as much as well.

Even just twenty pounds in (I need to lose another forty) I feel much better. I stopped snoring according to my wife and I have more energy. My GMing has improved since I'm not tired and cranky at night when we game.

Working out is fun if you work out with Buffy.


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## Dausuul

Morrus said:


> It sounds like you need to find a way to actually change your perspective.  Finding exercise tedious or unenjoyable is not particularly unusual; it's by far the biggest impediment to exercise on the planet, and billlions will agree with you.  The hard part is still doing it anyway.




If by "exercise" you mean "grimly and methodically hoicking iron bars up and down, then running in place for half an hour," then yes, this is certainly going to be true. But that's a very narrow definition of exercise.

Imagine going out with some of your gamer buddies, putting on armor, and sword-fighting with padded sticks. Does that sound like fun? If so, congratulations! You enjoy exercise. Forget the YMCA, the SCA is where you'll get your workout. Do you like dancing? Take dance classes. Do you love martial arts movies? Join a dojo. Learn to ride a horse. Climb mountains. Do awesome stuff. Not only will you get in better shape, but you'll have fun and you'll be learning things. We geeks may not love exercise, but almost all of us love to learn, so find a way to engage your brain as well as your body and you'll have all the motivation you need.

But whatever you do, for the love of Gygax, don't think of it as "exercise." Think of it as "a fun awesome thing I love doing and want to do all the time." The exercise is just a perk.

(I should add that for some people, lifting weights is like this. There are folks for whom weight training is exciting and fun, and that's great! If you can get into it, more power to you. But if it leaves you cold, find something else. Don't let exercise be a drag. Life's too short.)


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## Morrus

Dausuul said:


> If by "exercise" you mean "grimly and methodically hoicking iron bars up and down, then running in place for half an hour," then yes, this is certainly going to be true. But that's a very narrow definition of exercise.
> 
> Imagine going out with some of your gamer buddies, putting on armor, and sword-fighting with padded sticks. Does that sound like fun? If so, congratulations! You enjoy exercise. Forget the YMCA, the SCA is where you'll get your workout. Do you like dancing? Take dance classes. Do you love martial arts movies? Join a dojo. Learn to ride a horse. Climb mountains. Do awesome stuff. Not only will you get in better shape, but you'll have fun and you'll be learning things. We geeks may not love exercise, but almost all of us love to learn, so find a way to engage your brain as well as your body and you'll have all the motivation you need.
> 
> But whatever you do, for the love of Gygax, don't think of it as "exercise." Think of it as "a fun awesome thing I love doing and want to do all the time."
> 
> (I should add that for some people, lifting weights is like this. There are folks for whom weight training is exciting and fun, and that's great! If you can get into it, more power to you. But if it leaves you cold, find something else. Don't let exercise be a drag. Life's too short.)




You're preaching to the wrong person.  I do plenty of exercise and like it just fine.


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## Dausuul

Morrus said:


> You're preaching to the wrong person. I do plenty of exercise and like it just fine.




Mostly I was replying to Jhaelen, to whom you were replying. He was saying that he couldn't motivate himself to stay with exercise because it felt like a waste of time. A lot of people have the attitude that exercise is some sort of grim Puritan virtue, and I wanted to suggest a different way of looking at it.


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## Rel

So this is without question the single most commented on blog/column I've ever written.  I can't thank you all enough for sharing your thoughts and ideas about it.  Please check out my column from today where I touch on some of the same themes, inspired by a few of the more recent comments here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?617-Experience-Point-The-Price-of-Admission


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## nnms

From your next collumn:



> If you don’t want to exercise or diet, that’s also fine.  The Price of  Admission to that easy lifestyle is you’re probably going to be  overweight and ultimately suffer some health problems.  If you’re  willing to pay, fine.




Fantastic and very well put.

There's definitely an element of those who play RPGs who really separate their mind from their body, over emphasize the mind and downplay anything to do with the body.  Just as there are people who pursue lofty spiritual goals and separate the soul from the flesh.

If such a separation and downplaying of the importance of exercise is something someone wants to do, then they're going to pay the price.  If moving the body and eating right is "a waste of time" then that's going to eventually incur a hefty price tag and it's best to consider whether it's really worth paying.


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## Kingreaper

nnms said:


> Fantastic and very well put.
> 
> There's definitely an element of those who play RPGs who really separate their mind from their body, over emphasize the mind and downplay anything to do with the body.



Of course, the health of the body actually has a massive impact on the functioning of the brain. So even if you only care about your mind, exercise is still very helpful.


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## nnms

Kingreaper said:


> Of course, the health of the body actually has a massive impact on the functioning of the brain. So even if you only care about your mind, exercise is still very helpful.




It's actually ironic when you think about it.  If you prioritize learning and the mind to the point where you see exercise as a waste of time, it actually hurts your mind and your ability to learn.  The price to pay is more than just at some far off time in the future when the damage of a sedentary life catches up with you, it's here and now as well.


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## Morrus

There's another aspect which is not really being touched on here. Sure, there's health; but there's also - and I hate to use the word, because it immediately makes it a negative, and it's not - vanity. Not vanity in the sense that you act like a shallow cartoon type charicature from some Hollywood soap, but in the sense that it *is* nice to feel reasonably attractive. Admittedly, few of us (as in humans) are gonna look like movie stars, but it's within most peoples' power to look presentable. And that really does affect one's self-esteem, too.


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## nnms

It's good to feel good about the way you look.  Fantastic point Morrus!


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## Corinthium

If I believed in reincarnation, I'd swear I was a giant, inert blob in a previous life. And unfortunately, there has been some carryover to this life. I'm currently fighting against this, by exercising a little, but I know I need to do more. 

One thing I've always wanted to do and am back to working on now, is create a rpg where I do real world activities to "power" my character. It would be a sandbox forum game so that your character actions could impact the world. For example, if a ship infested with disease carrying rats docked then it would be up to the characters to catch the rats or not (in real life we would do squats). The longer it took the characters to catch the rats the higher the chance of a disease spreading throughout the city.

There wouldn't be classes, but you would create your character by training in certain skills and joining guilds. Some skills you could train yourself at anytime, like walking. Walking actually gives your character a kind of bonus. At level 0, for your character to walk 20 miles you would need to walk 20 miles. But if you take the time to level your walking skill you can eventually cut that down to where for your character to travel 20 miles you only need to walk 2. Other skills may require you find someone to train you and may just increase your odds of success in certain actions.

In addition to physical activities, I also want to include some behavior modification or goal setting. For example, you will need to pick some flaws for your character from a list. If you decide to change a habit, you assign that habit to one of your flaws. Each time you "cheat" you have to roleplay that flaw. So you decide to choose Narcolepsy as a flaw and decide to give up soda. Each time you have a soda you increase the chance that next time your character is involved in action that they will fall asleep.

I guess just walking my dog would be easier.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Speaking from experience, that depends on the dog(s)...








Why oh why couldn't the world of Larry Niven's _Dream Park_ novels be happening *NOW?*


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## Nytmare

A handful of stories related to various things that have been said in this thread:

The major turning point for me, health wise, was unfortunately establishing myself in my career.  When I was poor, I was in (generally) better health.  I might not have eaten healthily, but I ate a lot less, and ate way less plain old garbage.  My main mode of transportation was by bike until I started making enough money so that I could afford having a car.  When I wanted to use a computer, I'd bike out to the university to use one in the lab.  Now, if left to my own devices, I could easily spend a day walking no further than my bed to my computer, with a few short trips to the bathroom or kitchen over the course of the day.  Unfortunately, a lot of the bad habits I established as a poor college kid have haunted me ever since, whereas the "good" (or at least better) habits have all, for one reason or another, managed to steal away into the night over the intervening years.

Thankfully a hefty third of my job (doing grip work for films) involves some pretty serious physical labor, so that's managed to keep me in some semblance of physical shape.  I've managed to cut back on a lot of the complete garbage I was eating and drinking (I miss you Mountain Dew) over the last year or so.  I also installed a pullup bar in the doorway to the kitchen and refuse to let myself in, for any reason, without at least hanging on the bar and tensing my shoulders for 30 seconds.  The bikes are up in stationary stands in front of the TV, and I try to do at least a half hour on them while watching a movie or playing a video game.

At the beginning of one summer, my best friend and I discovered that there was a new Heroes of Might and Magic game coming out.  Realizing that this ran the risk of dooming us to yet another wasted summer where we did nothing but set ourselves up for a fall of complaining about how out of shape we were, we decided to meld the game with a workout routine involving various numbers of pushups and situps.  At the start of each day you did five of your choice, if you wanted to hire more troops you'd do ten pushups.  Starting a battle?  Losing a battle?  Losing a battle you started?  They all had various exercises tacked on to the in game costs.

That night I crashed on his living room couch and passed out almost immediately.  The following morning I awoke to his screams coming from the back of his house.  I immediately tried to jump up and rush to his aid but discovered that I couldn't move.  At all.  I wasn't just sore, I was nearly paralyzed.  I couldn't bend at the waist, or lift my arms for HOURS.  I was eventually able to tumble off the couch and somehow inch myself up a wall, but we were WRECKED.  I don't remember what our eventual tallies were, but if memory serves they were in the thousands.  We also never touched Heroes of Might and Magic ever again.

  @_*Dannyalcatraz*_  - Did you ever do any LARPing or play paintball or anything?


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## Dannyalcatraz

Actually, the closest I ever got to LARPing was doing some NERO sparring in Austin.  Ad I have played Laser Tag with the home stuff, not at the places they own.

The sports I played were more traditional: soccer, football, volleyball, weightlifting, bowling & frisbee were my main participatory sports, with occasional forays into hockey (in a gym with a ball)baseball/softball, basketball and the odd track & field events when someone needed a warm body to make a full team, avoid a forfeit or some such.


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## Nytmare

A few more things came to mind.  We have gotten into the habit of combining both geocaching and disc golf with the "Zombie, Run!" app.  http://www.appbrain.com/app/zombie-run/net.peterd.zombierun  That would be combining geocaching and zombies, or disc golf and zombies, not geocaching, disc golf, AND zombies. 

What I have NOT tried yet is the similarly named "Zombies, Run!" app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sixtostart.zombiesrun&hl=en  that I think I was super excited about when it was a kickstarter.  I am not sure if they lived up to their original goals, but at the same time, I'm not a runner by any stretch of the imagination.

Something else that I've been meaning to get involved in is a local branch of Ludocity (http://ludocity.org/) that play a lot of what they refer to as "street games" and "new sports."  Think "tag for grownups meets Calvin Ball" and you're probably heading in the right direction.


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## Jhaelen

Nytmare said:


> A few more things came to mind.  We have gotten into the habit of combining both geocaching and disc golf with the "Zombie, Run!" app.  http://www.appbrain.com/app/zombie-run/net.peterd.zombierun  That would be combining geocaching and zombies, or disc golf and zombies, not geocaching, disc golf, AND zombies.



Geocaching is something that I also find interesting. One of the few things I enjoyed in school sport was orienteering hikes and I still enjoy taking walks from time to time to explore areas in my local area that I didn't know before. The only problem about it: It takes so much time, so I rarely actually do it.

In school sport I also enjoyed playing table tennis and badminton - the only problem was: I was never any good at either. Even well before I was overweight I was never good at any kind of sports and frankly not interested.
I've always been a couch potato, even as a child. I vastly preferred to stay at home reading books, playing and designing board games or writing stuff for my roleplaying games to running about outdoors, playing soccer or what have you. Not much has changed, except these days I spend most of my time in front of a computer and I'm slowly but inevitably putting on weight. I don't think my diet is at fault: I'm a vegetarian and I drink still water almost exclusively.

I think it's really just that I'm not doing any kind of exercise and while it didn't seem to have any negative consequences in the past, it's becoming a problem as I'm gettting older (I'm in my forties now).


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## Dannyalcatraz

It just occurs to me that Geocaching would be something modern vampires might enjoy...as a form of food delivery.

"Man, according to this, that big box is what we're looking for!"


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## odinfellhammer

Keeping up with my younger brothers are my inspiration who run marathons and 10ks. I have taken karate for 10 yrs. Now I practice about an 2hrs on weekends. Also, I go to Planet fitnees twice a week. I run 3miles or bike 6miles. I do curls on the machines and crunches. At 41, I am in pretty good shape. I am a 33 waist not the 30 that I was in HS.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Update: since initiating the daily doggie drag in mid-January, I have lost 11lbs as of this morning.

We're going to have a few days hiatus to the program due to rain & T-storms.


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## epochrpg

zegerman said:


> I wouldn't mind some advice on managing the insatiable hunger that follows the early phases of my "I'm really going to get fit this time and stay that way" workouts.  In the first 2-3 weeks, when I'm most in need of seeing results, my appetite pretty much explodes and even focusing on vegetables and high fiber foods to try and get a sense of "fullness" I usually offset my gains and too often it derails the whole project.




At first, all I did was limit myself to 1 helping at meals and no eating after 9pm.  In addition, I cut out obviously bad-for-you foods like ice cream and deep fried anything. If I was hungry between meals, or afterwards I had an apple or a yogurt.  My usual breakfast was 1.5 servings of grapenuts with milk the first week, and sometimes had it for lunch too.  This along with walking 30 minutes a day, I lost significant weight in a week.  But as you go on, you have to do more to get results (metabolism actually slows as you lose weight, and your exercise gets diminishing returns because you weigh less, and therefor exert less force to do the same amount of movement as before).  

Later, I began using MyFitnessPal.  This is a no-brainer... as long as you actually do it.  Put in your weight.  It will tell you how many calories you can have per day to lose X amount of weight per week.  Input everything you eat.  Do it honestly and be accurate. Input all your exercise (again, never over-estimate; be realistic) which will add calories remaining to your total for the day.  As long as you don't go over your "Maintain Current Weight" calorie total, and stay under it most of the time, you will lose weight. 

Regarding foods to cut out- there is no magic bullet, but there are some foods you ought to cut down on.  Grains being one of them.  If I have a meal involving tortillas for instance, I have ONE tortilla.  If I want more of the other stuff, I can eat it with a fork.  Note that I'm not saying "stop eating carbs".  Just be aware of which foods you can have more of.  I'd rather eat more chicken than a little bit more tortilla.  Think of things in a Calorie to Volume ratio regarding fullness.  100 Calories of chicken is a lot bigger than 100 calories of tortilla, and lot bigger than 100 calories of butter. 

Other thoughts: eat a salad with dinner every night.  
Hungry for a snack: a high protein snack like greek yogurt or nuts may satiate you a lot longer than a granola bar.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Yout body's need for protein is one of the biggest drivers of hunger.  When you exercise, your body wants protein to help build/rebuild muscle tissue, leading to appetite eruption.

While I enjoy yoghurt, it's best if you get the plain stuff and add your own fruit, nuts or what have you.  That way, you avoid the added sugars.

Another classic hunger buster: an apple (perhaps with cinnamon) with a serving of cheese.  Forms some very nice complete proteins, is crunchy, and given the variety of cheeses and apples, can have a wide panoply flavor combos.  Cheddar and American are pretty common choices, and its hard to go wrong with a Red Delicious apple, though Galas, Fujis, Ambrosias and  Honeycrisps are awesome options as well.

Trail mix- especially homemade- can also be an excellent option.  A mix of fruits, nuts, and seeds can offer sugars, proteins, complex textures, and- should you so desire- a mix of salty, tart & sweet that is hard to beat. Added to yoghurt- see above- and you've got a real winner.


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## TreChriron

I started Crossfit in November, a week's vacation in December, then had a heart attack Jan 22nd. Had a few stents placed in the ticker, and it's humming like a new 20 year old's machine. Just started back this week (I go MON - WED - FRI) and I love it! I dropped 11 pounds in the two weeks leading up to the work outs. I am also following the Paleo diet, and the change has helped my asthma tremendously. All in all, I feel I'm on the right track to get this weight off, and NOT to repeat the heart attack again. Ever. Frankly, I'm just tired of being fat and I'm tired of being a stereo-type!


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## Bedrockgames

Morrus said:


> There's another aspect which is not really being touched on here. Sure, there's health; but there's also - and I hate to use the word, because it immediately makes it a negative, and it's not - vanity. Not vanity in the sense that you act like a shallow cartoon type charicature from some Hollywood soap, but in the sense that it *is* nice to feel reasonably attractive. Admittedly, few of us (as in humans) are gonna look like movie stars, but it's within most peoples' power to look presentable. And that really does affect one's self-esteem, too.




i will admit this was a big driver for me. I liked being in shape because of how it made me feel, but i also enjoyed how it made me look.


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## Bedrockgames

TreChriron said:


> I started Crossfit in November, a week's vacation in December, then had a heart attack Jan 22nd. Had a few stents placed in the ticker, and it's humming like a new 20 year old's machine. Just started back this week (I go MON - WED - FRI) and I love it! I dropped 11 pounds in the two weeks leading up to the work outs. I am also following the Paleo diet, and the change has helped my asthma tremendously. All in all, I feel I'm on the right track to get this weight off, and NOT to repeat the heart attack again. Ever. Frankly, I'm just tired of being fat and I'm tired of being a stereo-type!




Was that this January? Hope you are feeling well now.


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## TreChriron

Bedrockgames said:


> Was that this January? Hope you are feeling well now.




It was this January. I have to say modern surgery is amazing! I have 4 stents in my heart, and I feel like I'm 25 again.  I feel great, losing weight, and I think I'm going to level soon. Thanks!


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## Bedrockgames

TreChriron said:


> It was this January. I have to say modern surgery is amazing! I have 4 stents in my heart, and I feel like I'm 25 again.  I feel great, losing weight, and I think I'm going to level soon. Thanks!




Wow. That is pretty recent. Must have been terrifying. Glad you are feeling so good.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Did my first 2 mile walk with my doggies tonight.

They are unfazed- they are now giving me the "Let's go play in the yard!" stare.


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## Bride of Cthulhu

I greatly enjoyed this article! I used to be an extremely active person. Not owning a car was a huge part of that. I used to walk for at least an hour (usually more) every day broken up into 30-45 minute walks throughout the day and I lived in a city where it was easy to find a place to dance or join friends on a hiking trail. 

It was difficult for me to imagine myself ever falling to the 'Gamer Physique' being a girl. I never thought it could happen to me! After getting married, however, my situation changed. Not only do I now share my husband's car but everything I need or want in town is only a short 10 or 20 minute walk away! It has been difficult to try to pencil exercising into my busy schedule. I usually justify this with 'I will clean around the house. That has to burn some calories.' As a woman, the media has a huge impact on how I feel I should look but more so than fear the judgement of modern American standards I fear falling in the eyes of my peers into the 'chubby gamer girl' look. I have been married for a few months now and everyone has warned me  'prepare to pack on more than a few pounds now that you've tied the  knot. It's just what happens.'

Is it wrong that the most daunting part of gaining weight is worrying about cosplaying my favorite characters at conventions? The expectation of my peers for me to sport a skintight leather 'onesie' or to walk around in knee high boots, tights, and a leotard as their friendly Marvel and DC favorite is sometimes (MOST OF THE TIME) the only thing between me and a box of bugles and a Dr. Who marathon on the couch. 

Even so, it is so hard to motivate myself to exercise. I've never HAD to in the past and now that I married my main PC, I find myself sitting in the DM chair waaaay more often and spending hours and hours sitting down, not moving around at all, sometimes after a full day at work doing just that. Sitting. Not moving around. There are no decent gyms in this town and I couldn't bare the shame and extra work of having to remake all of my cosplaying clothes. Vanitas, vanitas, et omnia es vanitas. This article, however, has been more than inspiring. 

Maybe Fitocracy is just what the gamer girl in me needs to turn that jog into experience points and who knows; maybe my husband (bless his beautiful soul, he is and has always been standard gamer physique) might join me? Thank you so much for posting this. I sincerely believe that it will help get me moving more often. If nothing else, this may be ( imho ) the closest acceptable thing to LARPing. . . where you play yourself.


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## Manbearcat

Commitment to long-term behavioral regime is key here.  The demographics of this board are composed (like myself) primarily of Westerners.  Our societies have become so luxury driven and so extraordinarily sedentary as our collective technocracies have burgeoned such that our "hard choices" have morphed into "Downton Abbey or update my Facebook"...forget about "update my Facebook and eat fast food or steam these veggies and salt/pepper/sear this salmon."  I have a staple saying that I use with most of my friends/acquaintances when any of our Western entitlement behaviors manifest; "I'm AMERICAN!  And we get what we want and we WANT IT NOW!"  In the last 25 years, we've undergone a complete step-change in the behavioral components, and cultural gateways, that undermine our physical fitness.

There is hope, however.  A 47 year old female friend of mine is much more ectomorph than mesomorph and she never had an athletic history.  About a year ago she was weighing in at well over 2 bills (probably 220 lbs), at about 5'7" and change.  We trained her relatively aggressively for about 8 months and still run with her and cross-fit now and again.  She went from eating horribly to putting down the fork, backing away from the table, cutting her caloric intake by about 30 %, and primarily cooking most of her meals.  She endured all of the multiple 2-month (or more), demoralizing (this is what gets people) plateaus and steep (but short) step changes/spikes that come with recalibrating your set point.  She now is an extremely fit 135-40 lbs with clear eyes, healthy sleep patterns, a resting metabolism that dwarfs her prior one, and a completely committed relationship with staying strong, healthy and fit that is entirely of her own volition (for herself and for her partner).  

If someone such as that can master her worse impulses and change her life completely in a year then its within anyone's power to do so.  Even better than that, my s.o. has hypothyroidism (0 % thyroid functionality) with an exceptionally rare, debilitating form of it called Hashimotos; people with her afflictions are almost universally multiple hundred pounds overweight and/or absolutely sedentary (and typically short-lived).   She's a marathon runner and a strong, fit 125 lbs.  Where there is a will, there is indeed a way.


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## TreChriron

Crossfitter here! I'm up to 5 WODs a week now. Dropped 40lbs since November and the heart attack has only been a minor bump in the road. I highly recommend Crossfit and the Paleo diet!! I've never felt stronger or healthier in my life. I have so much more to lose and I'm super optimistic I'm going to!!


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