# Hitman style game idea



## Dire Lemming (Nov 20, 2007)

So as probably no one here knows, the movie inspired by the Hitman series of stealth/action video games is coming out soon.  Well I don't really care about that but it got me thinking about how playing a contract killer like 47 would translate into a PnP RPG style.  I think it might be fairly interesting to set this kind of game in a medieval fantasy world, though most likely one that is considerably different from classic DnD.  Clerics would have to be out, otherwise important people would just get raised or ressurected, and anyone killed could just be asked who their killer was.  However, that doesn't lock out religions.  After all, medieval priests in the real world didn't need to be able to bring back the dead to command respect.

Of course we still need rich affluent types to throw parties that act as convenient covers for hits...  I'm thinking that magic would be reletively rare.  Things would possibly be a bit steampunky.  With trains maybe...  Probably a solo or maybe even a duo game.

I'm just throwing around ideas, anyone got some they'd like to add?


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## Blackrat (Nov 20, 2007)

Well I'd suggest going with D20 modern and the D20 Past supplement. That would remove the trouble with too much magic. You could just pick what kind of magic would be available if any and mix and match the tech levels in the D20 Past to get that steampunk feeling.

It's an interesting idea. I'll be happy to help with brainstorming eventhough I'm not too interested to join the game itself  .


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## Dire Lemming (Nov 20, 2007)

Well lets see.  I think the game play would consist of first accepting a mission.  Then gaining information about the target and deciding when to strike.  When you did, you would have to make sure to minimize any casualties other than your target, be they security or civilian.  Depending on the situation it would usually be best to make the death look like an accident.  The game would only really work for characters with stealth skills.  Oh yeah, and once you make the hit, you need to escape.  There would have to be allot of planning involved.  Eventually it might be cool to add some rivals, and/or allow the character to start or join a guild of sorts.

For a duo of players thinks could get really interesting.

Oh right, about d20 modern.  Unfortunately I only have the CRBs and the FR CS.

Oh yeah, we'd definitely want to use the VP/WP system.


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## Wintergypsy (Dec 15, 2007)

Good idea, i'd even be up for plays if you'd have me.
But i would want to wait until 4th edition hits the shelves...however, brainstorming in the emanwhile shoudln't be a problem


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 16, 2007)

With your skills at necromancy you'd make an interesting hitman.     I haven't actually thought about this much since  no one seemed interested.  All of my attempts at DMing so far have been rather unsatisfying, but I think that it's just because I suck at it.  So I suppose I should try it more.  I'd really love to see some suggestions for this because I'm one of those types who is usually only able to be creative when inspired by something. 

I think I will start developing something though what with the lack of classes and all.

As for forth edition.  Nothing I've read about it makes me want to get it, so don't count on that.


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 16, 2007)

A game like Hitman would be fun. There would be alot of different ways to go about a contract like that. You could do the ol' fashion sniper rifle from as far away as you can get, or could even go about using bombs or poison. It would be fun (at least I think) for the characters to specialize in a form of assassinations. 

I do think you would have to keep the group small, but I do think it would be more fun as a group (it would also make things _slightly_ easier). I could see a group having a face man, a gunman, a couple of people could even be "insiders."


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 16, 2007)

Cool, because I just randomly thought of that group of assassins with a pun name from Usagi Yojimbo, I'm definitely limiting the group to four PCs max.  The only books I have are the DnD CRBs, the Forgotten Realms CS book and the Star Wars Revised CRB, so I don't think I could run a modern day game.  I'm more interested in doing this in a fantasy world anyway since magic could make things very interesting.  There would be no speak with dead, raise dead or resurrection spells, because it'd be too much trouble if the victim could just tell people who killed them.  Or be brought back to life by a ninth level cleric.  In fact, the world would probably be relatively low magic all around with wizards being practically nonexistent and sorcerers, (magical) bards, and any other spell users being somewhat rare.  I wonder if there are any pre-made campaign settings I could use for this.

Oh yes, if you want a sniper rifle, you're going to have to settle for either longbow or an arbalist.  Maybe I should use the Vitality/woud point and/or Armor as DC rules as well.

Hm, we need some steampunk...


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 16, 2007)

A d&d version of hitman would be very interesting. Could have a wizard open a portal, an assassin slip through, finish the contract, and be home eating dinner by the time anyone notices. I agree with you though, a group of 4 would be plenty. Can't have the group be too big, or else you have an assassins guild lol


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 16, 2007)

I have to say, I've never actually built a campaign before, so I really have no idea how to go about it besides talking about it with others.


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 16, 2007)

I would say (for the sake of being simple) just to take an existing world an run with it. Add some house rules and call it a day. If needed, you can always come up with some rule on the fly, which as long as it's fair to everyone, shouldn't be a big issue. The more I think about this game, the more fun it sounds. I was wondering what level you have in mind.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 16, 2007)

Hm, fourth or fifth probably.  I'm also thinking of altering the alignment restriction of Monks from any lawful to any non-chaotic, I've always found the standard restriction rather bizarre and annoying.

What CS would you suggest?  Though I only have Forgotten Realms, I could probably still make due with something else.  

I actually know someone with a homebrew campaign that might work well with a bit of dirtying up.


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## Blackrat (Dec 17, 2007)

Well, depends on the level of magic you like. If you don't like every big city to have abundance of clerics who can resurrect important persons, I don't think FR is your place. Unless you create somesort of magic weapon that utterly destroys the soul of the victim. 

But if you want a low-magic world I could give you my homebrew. It's a dark fantasy low-magic world where arcane magic is feared (wizards and sorceres are hunted in some of more superstitious places), and divine casters are chosen of their gods, so they are few in numbers and only handfull in the whole world can/would raise dead (mainly because raising magic is a social taboo. It is considered necromancy and therefore witchcraft, which in turn gets you burned )


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## OnlytheStrong (Dec 17, 2007)

I would think that most of the CS would work okay. People just have to realize that it's a "hit" not a full out battle. It would be hard to think that a person would wear full plate to kills a target. You may end up having a couple of casters and a couple of rogue-ish types. I was looking at Prestige Classes and came up with 3 that would be fun to try (provided we level): Ghost-faced killer, Assassin, and Invisible Blade.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 17, 2007)

I don't know the first one or the last one but since the first one is the name of a gangsta rapper I'm already leery of it.  

@Blackrat:  That actually sounds quite good, though perhaps a little bit more extreme than I want.  I would probably end up toning it down just a bit.  I'd want to start it in a large urban center containing a number of rich folks that hold lavish decadent parties.  We need at least one decadent party after all.    Also, corruption helps immensely.


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## Zurai (Dec 18, 2007)

The problem I see with a hitman style game is that the D&D system isn't really built for it. Higher level characters are virtually immune to physical one-hit-kills, while if you use all lower level targets the hit itself is rather anticlimactic. Also, it's extremely difficult to A) escape detection, and B) escape being caught, unless you use magic heavily. Once a few heavy-magic hits go down, people are going to start using magical protections, and then it becomes near-impossible to pull off a completely successful hit.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Dec 18, 2007)

A paranoid wizard of 11th level or higher can put up so many different kinds of protection it's just plain annoying to counter them even if you know them all, and it's death in a box if you don't.  Contigencies, Duelwards, Teleport blocks, alarm spells, bound demons, and that's barely scratching the surface of a few supplements, let alone the spell compendium.

A low-magic setting is almost certainly the way to go if you want it to move quickly, but even then, as Zurai said, D&D just isn't built for this.  When fighting a 'sufficient challenge' getting total surprise just means you might cut a round or two off the time it takes to kill him.  Even with stuff like Death Attack things is likely to just bounce off most real target.

My advice: go further than just low magic.  Grab a copy of Ken Hood's Grim'N'Gritty system at http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82837 (or if you're willing to shell out $4 for what I'd say is an awesome add-on to the d20 system, go to http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=5022 for a more complete version).  This is a system designed to be mean, and designed to represent the fact that no matter how cool you are, you can be killed by a sufficiently prepared opponent (I think the best demonstration was a game in which I saw a party of 5 8th level PCs kill a 24th level character who was the adventure module's 'invincible obstacle').


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## Ambrus (Dec 18, 2007)

I don't really agree with the idea of having more than 1 or possibly 2 PCs in such a campaign. If you went ahead with the team of specialists approach, each one with his own niche (face, sniper, insider, sneak) you'd simply end up running four inter-connected solo campaigns; probably more than you'd care to handle. What I mean to say is, the party will rarely be together except to discuss a contract, plan missions or split up the spoils afterwards.

In such a campaign you'd end up running the insider by himself through his attempts to infiltrate a venue, all the while running the face through his attempts to negotiate contracts and speak with contacts on the street, all the while running the sniper as he moves into position in a nearby clocktower and waits patiently for his target to present himself. There's little reason (except for sheer masochism) to shoe-horn these people into a "party" since they'll all be operating individually most of the time anyway.

Keep it simple and stick with one PC assassin; you'll save yourself a lot of extra work. You could go ahead and have two PCs if you like, but they'd likely have to have similar stealth abilities so that they can stick together as they make their way towards their joint target. Any more than two sneaky types and the campaign starts getting silly;
Q: How many ninjas does it take to stab one guy?
A: One to hold the knife and two to manoeuvre the target onto the blade.

There's nothing wrong (and many right things) about placing such a campaign in the Forgotten Realms. Waterdeep, for example, would be a fine place for such back-alley assassinations. And don't worry about clerics, raise deads and magic in general; they're what would make the game interesting. Check out Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos novels if you want to see how assassination might work in a high-magic fantasy setting. In the world in which the novels are set most everyone can communicate telepathically and teleport and raising the dead is very easy. In the novels the protagonist assassin character is often contracted to kill people, simply as a scare-tactic. There are few things more terrifying that waking up from death... Permanent death is a little trickier, more expensive and usually reserved for those individuals who really pissed somebody off. For such contracts, the protagonist usually makes use of various magics to make the death stick.

The possibility of raise dead being cast is easy enough to circumvent; simply mutilate the body in such a way that it is no longer "whole" and so is ineligible for use with the 5th level version. To circumvent the possibility of resurrection, take the body with you and dispose of it carefully later; no body, no resurrection. True resurrection is tough to beat, but hardly impossible. If a target is worth that much to kill, then your employer better be ready to shell-out enough to cash to cover the cost of the soul-trapping/destroying magics that'll be required for the job. Also, keep in mind the amounts of money required to bring someone back from the dead are excessive; they're not easily attainable for most people, and its not everyone who is going to be willing to dump that much cash on an ex-associate that they might be better off without.

There are plenty of possibilities to explore in such a game.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 18, 2007)

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at that stuff.  I was thinking of using the Vitality/Wound point system though to make things more deadly.  A rule for stealth take downs like in many video games would make things work better too.  Like, special training the PCs get that allow them to deal damage directly to wound points when the target is denied their dex modifier or something.

EDIT:  Ambrus, wow, thanks...  That's all fantastic, how would you deal with speak with dead though?


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Dec 18, 2007)

I agree that the Vlad Taltos novels are probably the best way of imagining assassination in a high-magic setting (and a damn fine read too), but those too will use the basic assumption that if you step out behind a man and cut his throat, he'll die, rather than checking his character sheet and saying 'nice start, only 394 hp to go'.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 18, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> I agree that the Vlad Taltos novels are probably the best way of imagining assassination in a high-magic setting (and a damn fine read too), but those too will use the basic assumption that if you step out behind a man and cut his throat, he'll die, rather than checking his character sheet and saying 'nice start, only 394 hp to go'.





Oh yeah, I planned to use Vitality and Wound points.


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## Zurai (Dec 18, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> That's all fantastic, how would you deal with speak with dead though?




There's two easy ways to deal with _speak with dead_. First, remove the jawbone. The skull must be intact for it to speak. Second, don't let the deceased see or hear you. The dead can't reveal what they didn't know in life.



> Oh yeah, I planned to use Vitality and Wound points.




Wound Points only really help if you can guarantee a critical - and you can't do that without magic or houserules.


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## Ambrus (Dec 18, 2007)

Zurai said:
			
		

> There's two easy ways to deal with _speak with dead_. First, remove the jawbone. The skull must be intact for it to speak. Second, don't let the deceased see or hear you. The dead can't reveal what they didn't know in life.



Just what I was going to say; wear a mask and take the jaw bone, or the whole body.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 18, 2007)

Yeah, I was also thinking of some sort of house rule or feat that allows characters to deal damage directly to wound points if the target would be denied it's DEX bonus to AC, or maybe just if it was flat-footed.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Dec 18, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Yeah, I was also thinking of some sort of house rule or feat that allows characters to deal damage directly to wound points if the target would be denied it's DEX bonus to AC, or maybe just if it was flat-footed.




If you do implement a rule like this, be prepared for every character in the game to have either Improved Feint or Flick of the Wrist.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 18, 2007)

Good point.  I think I'll limit it as flat footed.  That way they can subdue or kill people stealthily but will still need to do some real fighting as well if they're detected.  Also, how about a guaranteed critical special ability with limited use?  Come to think of that, there must already be something exactly like that in _some_ publication.


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## Blackrat (Dec 18, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> That actually sounds quite good, though perhaps a little bit more extreme than I want.  I would probably end up toning it down just a bit.  I'd want to start it in a large urban center containing a number of rich folks that hold lavish decadent parties.  We need at least one decadent party after all.    Also, corruption helps immensely.



It'll take a while for me to type everything relevant in english but basically the continent is somewhat analogious to medieval europe. The biggest cities have around 25-30 thousand citizens. The area has been an alliance of nations for centuries but the common enemy has been defunct for long time and internal disputes are quickly developing into skirmishes. Only the king of the biggest nation has been strong enough in his resolve to keep the alliance from falling apart. But the king has recently died under mysterious conditions (read: Assassinated). There is much play for political intriques and good opportunities for assassins. What's best is that the great empire that threatened the alliance centuries ago has built up it's strenght and is about to start a new conquest. Corruption and Decadence are the main theme of this homebrew CS.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 18, 2007)

Sounds good.

It's kind of a shame, but after thinking about it, as great as Ambrus' suggestions are, they don't really fit with the concept I had for the game.  It'd still be cool to try a game like that some time though.

So is this an "Evil" Empire?


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## Ambrus (Dec 18, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> as great as Ambrus' suggestions are, they don't really fit with the concept I had for the game.



Oh I see, clean cold-blooded contract killing is all fun and good, but mutilating the dead is beneath you eh? That's it isn't it? How typical...


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 18, 2007)

Oh no, not that.  It's just that I'm looking to do a a more "realistic" game where death is mostly permanent.  Possibly someone could be brought back by a wish or clone but wizards will practically mythological so if the king is killed, he probably will stay that way.  In the world I'm envisioning, Druids are mostly unknown, as well.

You know, I think I have lots of ideas now, I just don't know how to start making them into a game. :\


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## Cage-Rattler (Dec 19, 2007)

Heya!  I mentioned D20 "Weird Wars" in another thread a few days back, but I'll bring it up here as well; there's one particular mechanic that may help you get that "assassination" feel.

In the WW system, a character which at the mercy* of another has two options; they can surrender, or they could make a break for it and try to bring up their weapon, or run, or perform any other action.

If the latter is the case, the two parties roll initiative, with the first character (the one who had the other at his/her mercy) gaining a +5 circumstance bonus to the roll.  If they beat the other player, they get to take a _Coup de Grace_ action.  If they roll lower than the defending player, they still get to make an immediate attack, rolling to hit normally. 

*Meaning, the character is _Surprised_ and does not have a weapon at the ready.

If it were up to me, I'd probably tweak the above mechanics a bit; saying that the Assassin could attempt a _Coup de Grace_ on an unaware target, but both individuals would make an initiative roll as in the example.  A higher result on the Assassin's part means that he could make his _Coup de Grace_ as normal; a lower result would mean he makes an attack roll against his (flat-footed) opponent normally.  If that attack roll hits, the damage is automatically considered a critical hit (which may kill the target outright, anyway).


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 19, 2007)

Hm, that sounds pretty good.  It'll also allow for one hit kills with a dagger without silly amounts of modifiers.

How would you deal with a fiber wire type weapon?


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Dec 19, 2007)

If you're interested, there's some halfway-decent rules for garrotes in Song and Silence, the 3.0 rogue/bard book.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 19, 2007)

Will it work with 3.5?  I don't have it.  In fact, I kinda don't have 3.0 at all.


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## Blackrat (Dec 19, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> So is this an "Evil" Empire?



Well it is sort of "Evil" Empire. Depends on the way of looking at things. Those on the alliance would call them Evil and Tyrannical, but they call themself Orderly and Working for the Best of Everyone. It's sort of like police-state. The crimerates are low because the penalty for even smallest crime is death. There are no individual freedom, everyone works for the good of the society. Etc. You get the point. The alliance view them as opressing tyrannical society, they view the alliance as barbarians who need to be civilized  . So since the CS itself is from the alliance point of view, it is an evil empire.


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## Blackrat (Dec 19, 2007)

I'll get you couple of maps tomorrow. If you are interested in how this CS was built it started from very small. I started from a single inn in the middle of wilderness and just worked outwards.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm definitely interested in seeing it.


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## Blackrat (Dec 19, 2007)

Okay. I'll start describing the most defining differences from core.

*Shorties*: There is only one common small race. I envisioned them as very much like Hobbits. It is up to you if you like halflings or gnomes more to present them mechanically. Personally I used gnomes. The name of the race is taken straight from finnish mythology and is _"maahinen"_, which incidentally translates as gnome or goblin. Don't use goblin though since they are a distinctive race. There is another small race who are called either _elflings_ or _fay_. They had a continent spanning magical empire few millenia ago but it fell in a civil war and they never recovered. They are very rare though and perhaps best represented by Pixie's.

*Trolls*: Trolls are very different from core. They are also more in tune with finnish myths and therefore they range from small to large. They can also be considered civilized to a degree. They also turn to stone in daylight but when night falls they turn back. The most strong willed trolls can fight the stoning effect and only become slowed for the daytime. Trolls live in a northern land beyond a small sea from the alliance.

*Hobgoblins*: Hobgoblins are a common race in the alliance. Same as core but are usually Lawful Neutral rather than LE. They replace Half-orcs who are not a common race because orcs live quite a long way from the lands.

*Goblins*: Goblins are not rare in the alliance lands but they are not too numerous either. Most of them are like those in the core but some clans are even known for their honour or compassion.

Religion:
There are three main deities in the pantheon, they are considered siblings along with the god of the Empire, "Bahos".

Skaia: The Goddess of Winter and Love.
Aur: The God of Sun and Merchants.
The Warrior: God of War.

Bahos: The Evil God. (In the empire he is worshipped as God of Order). Bahos's worship is illegal in the Alliance. He represents everything that is evil, wrong, etc. "Be good or the Dark Knights of Bahos will take you away." 

Beyond these there are dozens of smaller deities holding portfolios over different aspects of life/world. I have somewhere few of them but you can just pick them from FRCS if you want.

The racial deities are derived from FRCS and MM

(On a side note. Skaia is an anagram from the name of my GF , Yeah I was a teenager when I started writing this setting and it just stuck when my friends insisted that it was super-cool name before they realized that it was supposed to be a placeholder)


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## Blackrat (Dec 19, 2007)

Hmm. I think I'll just type it all to a RTF and attach it to here, but those are the most notable differences. Except ofcourse the lack of mages. Those manifesting magic are always feared and even persecuted in certain areas.


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## Blackrat (Dec 23, 2007)

Wow, I forgot I promised you a map. This one lacks a few things still but is the most complete of my creations.

Edit: Updated the map


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 23, 2007)

Nice, what and where is a good large urban center?


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## Blackrat (Dec 23, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Nice, what and where is a good large urban center?



The largest would be the metropolis-size city just above the text "Taran" (Which is both the name of the country and the city). It is the hub of the alliance and the capital city of the most influental nation. There are delegations from every other nation in there and prominent thieves-guilds. Since the "mysterious death" of King Aran VII the city has become even greater nest of scheming and corruption.

Other good choice would be the metropolis next to "Laradin". This is where the rulers of the nations meet when there are really important matters of the alliance at stake. Things that cannot be left for ambassadors to settle. A city of decadence and corruption as noble houses compete on who gets to house the high guests during these meetings.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 23, 2007)

Hm decadence is good for assassins.

So let's see, so far my variant rules are, Wound/Vitality points, Armor gives DR, and that one about coup de grace's on unaware targets aka, Assassination rule.  I'm still not sure what to do about garottes.


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## Blackrat (Dec 24, 2007)

I updated the map  .

Doringdel, The capital of Laradin is a city built to the side of a mountain-range. (Visually think Minas Tirith.) It is the second most important city in the alliance and is the commercial center. There is royal embassies of every other nation in Doringdel and decadent parties are daily among the cream of the society. I will give you more details later. If there is anything specific you would like to know of the CS or the map do ask.


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