# [pbp] Recruitment for SMACK: Seriously Munchkinistic Acts of Casual Killing!



## Jeph (Nov 2, 2002)

This game will be an exercise in powerplay and munchkinism.

If you have not read the Sultans of Smack thread (or at least part of it) in the Rules forum, go read it. Because if you haven't, everyone else's character will be dealing 200 damage a round, and yours won't.

This is my first time running a PBP game, so please count to 10 before jumping on my mistakes. But please, jump on them, as there is no other way that I'll learn.

I am looking for 4 characters. Everyone who submits a character _must_ prove that their character can do more than 200 damage or 30 points of ability damage in a single round, gain an AC of at least 65, an attack bonus of at least +55, or do something along that order of magnitude, preferably more than once per day (that means the Extra Smiting feat!). I'll allow almost any sourcebooks, including the Psionics Handbook, OA, FRCS, KoK Player's Guide, the WotC and Quint splatbooks, Seafarer's Handbook, Spells and Spellcraft (I and II), Relics and Rituals (I and II), don't be afraid of making completely cheap characters: if you don't, you'll DIE! 

Characters will start at level 16 with 260,000 GP worth of equipment, with no limit on GP for a single item. If you want a 260,000 gp greatsword, go for it. ECL races will be allowed, but only up to +4 ECL. Characters will buy ability scores with 50 Point Buy, not including the 4 ability upgrades from level.

This game will be almost complete hack and slash with almost no vestige of a plot. The point is to be as munchkinish as you can, constructing characters that no sane GM would allow. Because, as we all well know, I'm not exactly sane.   Feel free to use stuff strate from the Sultans of Smack thread, but it would be nice for you to come up with your own smacks. Remember that the GM will be using these smacks to, so whach your tail! 

I'll take the first 8 submissions, and then choose the 4 cheapest, most overpowered, heavy-damage characters to play. Each player will pick a color to post the IC bits of their posts in. 

So, submit the smacks!


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## reapersaurus (Nov 2, 2002)

Oh, you ROCK!

You just posted what I've been dreaming about for so long!  LOL

I'd love to flesh out my Shield-Smackdown to level 16, using the Singh Rager to get Haste AND Pounce, so all the attacks get the Charge bonus.  

Or flesh out the Strength Smackdown (Mighty Contender of Kord), and use it for damage potential, instead of just STR alone.

Which interests you more?


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## garyh (Nov 2, 2002)

I'm interested.  However, I don't know that I have 200 damage per round in me.  I'll probably just follow along and oogle the carnage when the game starts.


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## buzzard (Nov 2, 2002)

Count me in. I will cook up a properly disgusting archer. Those are my specialty. Is the Monte Cook ranger an option?

buzzard


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## buzzard (Nov 2, 2002)

OK here's my munchkin

Oliver King :M Human Ranger (Monte Cook's)4 Fighter4 Deepwood Sniper8;Size:M; hp 106; Init +12; SpdWalk 30'ft.; AC 25; Atk = +16/+11/+6/+1 melee, +16/+11/+6/+1 ranged;SA:Concealment Reduction 10pct (2),Consistent Aim 1/day (2),Favored Enemy(Undead),Keen Arrows,Magic Weapon,Projectile Improved Critical +1 (2),Range Increment +80ft,Safe poison use,Take Aim +2 (2); AL:TN; SV Fort +10, Ref +11, +4; Str20, Dex 26, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10. Height 0' 0",weight 0 lbs
Skills and Feats:Balance +27, Climb +18, Hide +52, Jump +11, Knoledge Monster Lore 6, Listen +10, Move Silently +37, Search +12, Spot +10, Tumble +16, Use Rope +9, Wilderness Lore +10, Know the Secrets (Undead) ,Know the Secrets (Constructs) ,Dodge,Far Shot,Improved Critical (Longbow (Composite)),Improved Initiative,Mobility,Point Blank Shot,Precise Shot,Rapid Shot,Weapon Focus (Longbow (Composite)),Weapon Specialization (Longbow (Composite))
Possessions 1 Bracers of Archery; 1 Outfit (Traveler's); 1 Boots of Elvenkind; 1 Longbow +3 (+5 Mighty/Composite/Speed); Magic Quiver - casts extended greater magic weapon 1/day at 15th level, Chain Shirt +1 (Fortification (Heavy)/Mithral/Shadow), tiger claw arrows (from Kalamar's PHB), ring of prot +3, ring of chameleon power, amulet of natural armor


The damage in one round is fairly sick. 
With the bow you have (within 30')
+36 +36 +31 + 26 +21  crit range is 15-20/x4 damage:1d8+ 16
with rapid shot this is:
+34 +34 +34 +31 +24 +19 at 1d8+16  15-20/x4

max damage in a round is:
576 (though certainly unlikely since this assumes max on all damage rolls and crits on every shot). 

Average damage is 246 for rapid shot. It is just 225 without it. Also the 225 can be sustained for 10 rounds (when he runs out of arrows). At this point, with normal tiger claw arrows damage drops to 165/round. In the annoying event that he faces a critter that is critical immune, he does 123 if they all hit (average). The Know the Secrets feats allow him to crit undead and constructs. 

Is that sick eoungh?

buzzard


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## Janos Audron (Nov 2, 2002)

The Idea: Massive damage.
The Character: Wizard.
The Spell: Horrid Wilting.
The Requirements: a cohort with a cohort, Red Wizard, able to cast 8 level spells.
How it works: The cohorts and me use Circle Magic. They transfer (being a 15th and a 14th level wizard respectively), say, 200 spell levels to me. I use this to up my caster level to 40. 176 spell levels left. I then use 12 of those levels to cast Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Horrid Wilting. That's 25d8 * 4. Average damage is 100 * 4.5 = 450 (800 damage max, just to be better than the previous poster ), or 50 * 4.5 = 225 on a successful save. Enough spell levels left for Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Empowered, Cones of Cold, Fireballs, Ball Lightnings, Firebrands... You get the idea.

Add to this a nice DC (40), a lot more spells (and thus flexibility) and you know why you should watch out for mages...


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## Jeph (Nov 2, 2002)

Buzzard: Monty Ranger is fine. Hell, almost anything is. you know, that archer reminds me of the Rgr1/Sohei1/Ftr4/Weapon Master 10 I made: utilized twf, itwf, and Flurry (from Ki Frenzy) to get like 7 attacks. The sick thing was, it had a crit of 16-20/x5, when using the Increased Multiplier ability.  

Garyh: I'm sure that you can think up some incredibly cheap min/maxed supersmacker.   They're actually not all that hard; and becides, if you're having trouble, the Sultans of Smack thread is a great resource. 

Reapersaurus: heh heh heh. Melvos the 2-shielded monster would be awesome in this game. Superhigh AC, superhigh Atk, superhigh damage. He's perfect.

Janos: Looks good, but keeping your cohorts alive will be a big issue. a BIG issue D ). They'd better watch their backs . . .

Because of the nature of the game Dispell and Antimagic Fields will be pretty commonplace. So will enemies who know exactly how your smacks work do to "extensive divination magic." So watch out, and don't feel hurt if I play dirty: this _is_ a powergaming munchkinfest, afterall.  

I'm glad to see that people are making their own smacks and not just lifting them from SoS. But that's fine too; I haven't read the entire thread, and probably won't notice if you c/p anyway. The source of the smack really doesn't matter, just the smack it's self.

But everyone remember this: if you're character loses the intitiative, it is likely that you're going to be dead before you get a chance to act. It is looking like most of the characters will have less than 200 damage reduction (lol). So, Improved Initiative is a must have (that, or haste-and-quickened-teleportation for jumpin-jumpout tactics).

Just a note: when the game actually begins, please post not only what your character does, but the effects of what they do (exp. when using magic items / spells). There will be tooooooo many special abilities active for me to keep track of them all, so you might want to include a conditions summery at the beginning of each post, too.


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## Janos Audron (Nov 2, 2002)

You think I'd take two perfectly goods cohorts with me on an adventure? They can stay at home, memorize spells 2/day  (so that I can cast even more Empowered spells) and make sure I get raised when I die...


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## Jeph (Nov 2, 2002)

Teleport-fireball-teleport works as well on them as you, me matey! Or, as the case may be, teleport-horrid wilting-teleport!  

Jonas, could you post your fully statted character for review (and your cohort and cohort's cohort)?


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## reapersaurus (Nov 2, 2002)

Cool - I was thinking of maybe making the Shield-Singh-Rager a female, for that feline-attack goodness.
What's a Wemic's stats and ECL?

I thought of a name for the game: SMACK - Seriously Munchkin And Completely Killer

I'm sold on the first 2 words of the acronym - if anyone can improve on the last 3, go right on ahead.

edit: Ooh! Can we use Four Color to Fantasy? (the CHA-boost from Increased Mental Ability increases my Shield Smackdown smack by quite a bit.)


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## buzzard (Nov 2, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> edit: Ooh! Can we use Four Color to Fantasy? (the CHA-boost from Increased Mental Ability increases my Shield Smackdown smack by quite a bit.)  *




Did I spoil you or something?

buzzard


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## Jeph (Nov 2, 2002)

Hmmm . . . sorry, i think that 4ctf is one of the supplements that I won't allow, for two reasons:
1) I don't have it, and
2) It seems fairly complex.

I like the name! How bout . . .

SMACK: *s*eriously *m*unchkinistic *a*cts of *c*asual *k*illing


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## Jeph (Nov 2, 2002)

buzzard said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Did I spoil you or something?
> 
> buzzard *




Yep.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 2, 2002)

If there are no alignment restrictions, how about a lower level version of my Akutenshi smack involving a flying 8 armed Iajutsu master with DR, some decent spells, the ability to use any wand, and all the multiweapon fighting feats?

What ruling do u use on Claws of the Vampire?  Do you only gain 1d8 hp per strike, or all of your dmg.  If its the latter, I might want to make a Monk/Psiwar who uses CoTV, Amulets of Mighty fists (Mind Feeder), and lots of psionic and normal buffs and feats to do tons of damage and then gain back enough hp and pp in the process to be able to keep throwing everything hes got at his opponent round after round.


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## Jeph (Nov 2, 2002)

On CotV, you heal the full damage. 

Now, try Maxamized, Empowered, COTV, and throw in talons to get that extra 1 point, and Psionic Fist, and of course Unavoidable Strike, and . . . PsyWar Monks are just fun.  

btw, what's this Akutenshi thing? it's not in OA. Is it in the Rokugan CS? Some monster manual?

Remember that there isn't even going to be a semblance of a plot, so Bard / Paladin / Hida Defenders are fine with me. (don't ask _why_ you'd want to be a bard/paladin/hida defender . . .)

Right, so the following people will be submitting characters, right?
DM_Matt
Reapersaurus
Garyh
Janos
Buzzard

Of them, only Buzzard has already submitted a character. The other 4 still need to, and there's room for 3 more, and then I'll choose the ones to play, and create a Rogue's Gallery thread. (wow, run-on sentance.) 

okay people, only 3 slots  left!


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## Janos Audron (Nov 2, 2002)

*The big stat post*

Stats:
Str: 10 
Dex: 14
Con: 18
Int:22
Wis:12
Cha:14
 

Feats:
01: Scribe Scroll
01: Still Spell
01: Extend Spell
03: Silent Spell
05: Spell Focus (Necromancy)
06: Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
09: Spell Focus (Evocation)
10: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
12: Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
15: Spell Mastery (Knock, Teleport Without Error, Plane Shift, Greater Dispel Magic, Anti Magic Field, Eatherrealness, Kiss of the Vampire, Horrid Wilting, Magic Jar, Mind Blank, Disintegrate)
 

It's kinda bedtime for me now, so I'll try to finish this tomorrow.

BTW, if Kingdoms of Kalamar is allowed, there is a feat in there that allowed you, if you made a spellcraft check of DC 10 + 2 * spell level to keep a spell memorized. The prerequiste is Spellcaster lvl 7+ iirc. Could someone please post that feat (it's just so abusive).


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## DM_Matt (Nov 3, 2002)

Akutenshis and their lesser cousins Atenkutsis (or something like that) are Template in the Shadowlands section at the very end of OA. Actually, I think that if I play a psiwar it will have one or both of those tps anyway, if allowed.  Having eight clawed arms is always useful to unarmed fighters.


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## Jeph (Nov 3, 2002)

Ah! found it. Unfortunately, you've called my attention to the two Maho PrCs . . . . man they kill.  

By the way, Janos, in the stat post for the spellcaster dude, you have Spell Focus (evocation) and GSF (evocation) mixed up. Look forward to the rest of that character (and cohort, and cohort's cohort).

Would everyone else post at least a bit of their character (remember, 50 point buy, 4 ability upgrades from level, 260,000 GP)? Just post the ability scores, levels, and feats if you don't have the rest right now.


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## Elric (Nov 3, 2002)

Hmm... I don't suppose you'd be willing to allow unerrata'd 17-20 crit range bladed gauntlets?  

Let me try to figure out some details: The important item is the Keen Vorpal Bladed Gauntlet (with Improved Crit and Ki Crit, of course).

Here's a very rough sketch:
Barbarian 1 
Ranger 1
Fighter 2
PsiWarrior 2
Weapon Master 10


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## Jeph (Nov 3, 2002)

Elric said:
			
		

> *Hmm... I don't suppose you'd be willing to allow unerrata'd 17-20 crit range bladed gauntlets?
> *




Of course!


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## DM_Matt (Nov 3, 2002)

Right now I am thinking....

Akutenshi Template 3
Maho-Bujin 1
Maho-Tsukai 2 (frmr 1 Wiz, 1 Cleric (Time and Mysticism)
Psi War 6
Monk 1
Monte Ranger 1
Iajutsu Master 2


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## reapersaurus (Nov 3, 2002)

Where does it state that getting the benefits of both the akutsukai AND akutenshi templates is only a +3 ECL?
(edit: ahhh...   you read the akutsukai as +2 and the akutenshi as +1?
Problam: those are CR's, not ECL's.
There is a max of +4 ECL, and those would probably weigh in at about +15 ECL.)

BTW: what ECL list are you working from?
The DM guide lists a Half-Celestial as +3 ECL, for example.
Would that be OK?

Or how bout a WereTiger? What's the ECL of that?
4-armed Mutant Sahaugin?


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## DM_Matt (Nov 3, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Where does it state that getting the benefits of both the akutsukai AND akutenshi templates is only a +3 ECL?
> (edit: ahhh...   you read the akutsukai as +2 and the akutenshi as +1?
> Problam: those are CR's, not ECL's.
> There is a max of +4 ECL, and those would probably weigh in at about +15 ECL.)
> *




Well, its never been ECL'd anywhere and its in a book full of stuff PCs can take, right after a pile of pres classes.  PC-able templates (as in, those not in a monster section) tend to use CR and ECL interchangeably, such as Half-Dragons and Half-Cels...remember, this campaign  from what I see above tends to intentionally ignore stuff like errata, so this is within the pale of insane lameness to allow.  If the errata on the bladed gauntlets can be ignored, so can the rule changes that indicate that templates that give CR as Char level + X means anything but +X as a level equivalent.


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## Jeph (Nov 3, 2002)

ECL and CR _are_ different, and the Akutsukai is pretty damn powerful. Id say an Akutsukai with 5 specials and 8 arms is +10 ECL. 4 arms and 3 specials might be +6 ECL. Over the limit either way. Sorry, man. 

Hey, you can still get the Maho classes. That's one bit of insanely cheap silliness that I _will_ allow.


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## Jeph (Nov 3, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> BTW: what ECL list are you working from?
> The DM guide lists a Half-Celestial as +3 ECL, for example.
> Would that be OK?
> ...




I'll assume that you're serious.
Half Celestial: +3, as normal.
Were Tiger: The ability increases alone give +2 AC, +6 atk/damage, and +2 HP / level. That's at least the equivalent of a 6th level character. Now, the Natural Armor and extra attacks would give another +1 ecl. So I'd say +7.
4-armed mutant sahuagin: not that bad. Only about +3.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 3, 2002)

DM_Matt said:
			
		

> *Well, its never been ECL'd anywhere and its in a book full of stuff PCs can take, right after a pile of pres classes.  PC-able templates (as in, those not in a monster section) tend to use CR and ECL interchangeably, such as Half-Dragons and Half-Cels...remember, this campaign  from what I see above tends to intentionally ignore stuff like errata, so this is within the pale of insane lameness to allow.  If the errata on the bladed gauntlets can be ignored, so can the rule changes that indicate that templates that give CR as Char level + X means anything but +X as a level equivalent. *



Look in the DMG, page 22 - that's core.
It is pretty clear that CR is not used when PC's take those monsters/creatures.
The Half-Celestial example - the DMG lists it as +3 for a PC to use, whereas it only increases the CR of a monster by +1 (MM, page 214)

Anyone know of a creature other than a mutant Sahaugin (or the Akutenshi) that has multiple arms?


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## Jeph (Nov 3, 2002)

Corlon's brother plays one in Corlon's campaign, I'll ask him what it is, and for the stats. They're some cat race.  And hey, there's nothing wrong with a mutant Sahuagin.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 3, 2002)

Well, darn.

Question about Mahos then.  What do you rule regarding Maho metamagic and undead.  Mahos can elect to use blood in their spellcasting and take Con damage rather than pay extra levels for metamagic.  Do you rule that undead Mahos cant use that power (Which probably doesn't make sense because the PRC is more or less a preparation for the Aku templates), or that they can use it for free because they dont take con dmg.

If its the latter, can I still be ECL 0 as a type of undead with few or no special powers except type undead?

Or how about a weak Aku?  Can you kinda itemize it?  I dont need a ton of arms, but what will the Maho power give?  Or weak stuff like wings or a tail?  natural armor?  DR that will absolutely never com into play in this campaign except against summon swarm?

hmmmmm....Perhaps
Maho-Tsukai 5 (Subsuming 1Cleric, 1Wiz,1Druid, 1Contemplative)
Incantrix 9
Archmage 1


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## Jeph (Nov 3, 2002)

Undead don't have con, so they can't use any abilities that require the use of the constitution score.

sorry, I want to stay away from house rules in this campaign. I wont make a psuedo-aku. Consider just taking the Half-Fiend template (+3 ecl).

By the way, where are you going with this character? please post more details on his smack tactics.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 3, 2002)

I am not talking about a pseudo-Aku.  Akus area power menu template, so I assume that the ECL will depend on how many powers said Aku has and which ones they are.

As far as the undead and con thing...

Firstly,

All Maho's use a little bit of their blood in every casting.
Aku's are undead
Aku's can take an ability that gives them extra Maho spellcasting
----------------------------------
Therefore, undead with blood can use it in their spellcasting

Now the description of the ability:
"by draining blood, the Maho-Tsukai can enhance her spells without using a higher-level spell slot.  The cost is a number of points of temporary constitution damage equal to the level of the metamagic spell."

The act is using more blood than usual in the casting to make the casting more effective.  The drawback is that it deals Con damage.  Undead are immune to Con damage.  Ergo, they can use this ability.

As far as tactics, the beauty of a caster with access to all spell lists and ridiculous amounts of metamagic can pull off any of the many high level caster no-superDC based smackdowns.  The idea is a foundation.  But in a sense, he will have multiple different smackdowns prepared  at any given time.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 4, 2002)

DM_Matt said:
			
		

> *As far as tactics, the beauty of a caster with access to all spell lists and ridiculous amounts of metamagic can pull off any of the many high level caster no-superDC based smackdowns.  The idea is a foundation.  But in a sense, he will have multiple different smackdowns prepared  at any given time. *



You just answered your own question, Matt.

I hope you are not seriously forwarding the rules proposition that an undead (i.e. a creature with NO BLOOD) can use its own blood and penalties to a CON score which it doesn't have to allow for all kinds of infinite-metamagic nonsense?

It sounds too good to be true for a REASON.  LOL  

And BTW: Jeph - I know this is a power-gaming exercise and all, but shouldn't there be SOME limits?
Are you thinking of having undead in the adventure?
How about evil characters?

For myself, I'm planning on playing a cleric/paladin multiclass, so unless we want to have a fight amongst the party in the first meeting, I wasn't imagining that evil characters would be included in the Smackdowns.   

Matt, I hope you don't take my words as attacking you - it's just that that Akutenshi Smack was whack ever since you posted it, but I held my tongue before. If you're planning on using it in this thread, it has to be more analyzed, rules-wise. And just one ability of the Akutenshi alone (Invisibility at will) makes it around a +4 ECL, doesn't it? (Not to mention Disrupt Ki AT WILL, and that little Shapechange perk)

Can you use a different smack?
One that doesn't involve that Shadowlands nonsense? (IMO)


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## DM_Matt (Nov 4, 2002)

I think tha those rules do indeed work.  Some undead do have blood.  Akus obviously do.  So, traditionally, do vampires.

I might go for a fighter smack instead, though, which involves a level of maho-bujin, because unless there are alignment restrictions involved, the first level of MB is more or less a no-brainer in a fighter smack unless you REALLY need that one last feat.

I'm sorry taht you think taht all the Shadowlands stuff is nonsense.  Personally, I think that dual-weilding shields is nonsense too.  IIRC, you last version of him had Iajutsu...Do you plan on Iajutsuing with two shields, too?


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## garyh (Nov 4, 2002)

Jeph, are you sure there'll be no 4CtF?  Basically, I'd like to just advance my Bruk sug Hlak PC (see link in my sig).  I would switch out the greataxe to either a falchion or greatsword (for critically goodness) and maybe slap on a half-dragon template, but that'd be the general idea.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 4, 2002)

LOL, Matt - yup, I included Iajutsu Focus on a dual-shield-wielder to point out how stupid the skill is.
It completely violates one of the principles of 3E, which is that skills shouldn't affect combat.
The skill states that any melee attack can be used for Iajutsu... 

On a side note, I can't stand any Smack that involves that skill because of it.
Probably similar to your distates for a dual-shield Smack (which seems quite reasonable to me). Different tastes.

Your point about any fighter-type taking one level of Maho-Bujin is well-made: why NOT double your number of attacks? 
Every single melee character should have one level of MB if they're trying to maximise damage.

Oh, wait. 
There's that part about selling your soul, and being a pawn of Evil that might get in the way of playing one.
From the way I read it, a Maho-Bujin is an NPC PrC.
Not only would it not be able to exist outside of the Shadowlands (my call - due to its reliance on the Taint for existing), but they shouldn't have any freewill - "unlucky ones are transformed... into living servants of evil."

How could they realistically work in any party?


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## Jeph (Nov 5, 2002)

Okay, first off, sorry for not posting yesterday, internet trouble.

Second off, Matt, please read the following: UNDEAD DON'T HAVE BLOOD! Okay? Remember, only 4 characters will be in the actual thread, and arguing won't increase your chances.

Third off, everyone feel free to be evil, just don't complain about the consequences.   

Fourth off, Reapersaurus, I got a two-part email from you that I can't combine. Do you know how I can do this? I have a Macintosh Cube (g4) if it helps.

Fifth off, Garyh, I know bruk (i'm in that thread, neh?), and weather or not you can use 4ctf depends strongly on Reaper's respons to the above.

Sixth off, remember, three more slots!


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## garyh (Nov 5, 2002)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *Fifth off, Garyh, I know bruk (i'm in that thread, neh?), and weather or not you can use 4ctf depends strongly on Reaper's respons to the above.*




I believe so.  I lose track sometimes.   

Let me know what you decide.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Nov 6, 2002)

I'll toss my hat into the ring, I have several concepts I came up with...

Several concepts:

Maximized Delayed Blast Coldball Energy Admixtured with Acid and Sonic anyone?  360 damage total, you can store them in gloves of storing, and use practically an infinite amount easily.  In the hands of an insane character, this might prove fun.  You can easily use 2 for 720 damage in a round or conceivably use all of them that you want since its a free action to retrieve them.  Nicknamed 'Harley Bomb' for the character I created, oh yeah-Spell Thematics so it comes with Fireworks effects 

Uses: Sor 6/Incantrix 10 or Wiz 5/Incantrix 10/Archmage 1

Shadow Human Penumbral Lord-path to near invulnerability, ability to attack without fear of retaliation and even mord's disjuntion won't help versus him.

Uses: Shadow template (MotP) +1, Wiz 7/Penumbral Lord 10, could be downgraded to Penumbral Lord 8 and be effective but not as effective.  Shadow template isn't necessary since regeneration (which helps cast spells up to 6th level for practically free) can be gained through other means.

Hide Life+Arcana Form, includes ability to not be touched by spell effects, cast infinite spells per day, and with some other spells cast around 4 spells per round.

Uses: Unfortunately, can't be used until 17th level, course, could be supplemented with Scrolls but that isn't as fun


I have a couple others as well   Though I'm leaning towards my first concept

Soooooo, any limit on the books we can use?  I just got the BoVD today, and I'm still looking for a few loopholes


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## Jeph (Nov 6, 2002)

Since, as we have stated before, ECL is _not_ CR, and the Shadow template get's some pretty powerful abilities (like, basically, 9/10 cover ALL THE TIME), I'd assign it ECL +2 or 3.

Garyh, you are now free to use 4CTF.  

Well, that's 6 people so far. 2 slots left!

-Jeph


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## Jeremy (Nov 7, 2002)

Netbook of Feats?  Book of Eldritch Might?  Magic of Faerun?  All good?

Epic Level Handbook?  There's some good stuff in there (many shot, improved multiweapon fighting), that's high level but sub 21st level.

Enemies and Allies?  Silver Marches?  Other Wizards of the Coast books like that that don't get much love?


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## reapersaurus (Nov 7, 2002)

LOL  Isn't the Netbook of Feats just fan-produced?
Not exactly published material, eh? 
(edit: actually, most of that stuff MIGHT be more balanced than some of the published stuff that's being considered. LOL)

(I'm working on the ShieldBasher currently - Jeph - I'm VERY interested in that cat-based race. I can't find anything good with multiple arms or a bonus to CHA. Maybe that cat race would fit the character and help me finalize some choices.
The wemic really doesn't cut it, and is too high of ECL. )

edit: Is there anything that increases the multiplier of damage that you do when performing a Flying Charge?


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## Jeremy (Nov 7, 2002)

About half the netbook is the SRD feats reprinted, but the other half goes through review by committee and is ranked on balance, purpose, power, portability, complexity, compliance with 3e rules, and overall.

Quite a few published feats do not undergo this amount of scrutiny.

Check it out, there's some really good stuff in here amidst the fluff.

www.netbookoffeats.org


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## Jeph (Nov 7, 2002)

Downloaded the NBoF, they put some of the stuff in the Psi Hb (*cough* unavoidable strike *cough*) to shame, balance-wize.  I was sure you'd show up some time, Jeremy. Well, I think that's 8:

Reapersaurus,
Garyh,
Buzzard,
DM_Matt,
Elric,
Janos,
Sollir, and 
Jeremy.

I will now create  a rogue's gallery thread, and everyone listed above should post a finished munchkin within a week. Then, I'll consider them for a few days, and choose the 4 to be in the game thread, and ask them to highlight their munchkins in their favorite color.  

-Jeph


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## Jeph (Nov 7, 2002)

The thread is HERE.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 8, 2002)

3 questions: 
1) I saw the NBoF, and what do you say about the Divine feats?  

2) What are the chances of getting to take a peek at that cat-race?

3) Does anyone have some detail about the Divine Hammer PrC from the Quintissential (Cleric or Paladin?) book?
I know it needs Power Attack and CLeave, BAB +7.
Gets CHA bonus to attack AND damage at first level if you burn a turn attempt.
What does it get at 2nd and 3rd?


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## Jeph (Nov 8, 2002)

I recomend the Shiba Protector to the Divine Hammer. Prereqs are for 5th level characters, and they get their Wis bonus to Attack and Damage ALL THE TIME! This is extremely deadly when combined with a kensei, two flaming burst picks, and a ranger/fighter/sohei/barbarian.  

I don't have the book with the cat-race, I'm not even sure If they fit the ECL requirement. I'll call Corlon, and get the stats/book.

The Divine feats look very balanced, almost all got ratings above 4.0.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 8, 2002)

I'd love to use the Sohei, and have it as an optional build for my character, but I need BAB in the first 8 or so levels to get to Singh Rager.
The Shiba Protector, does it have +1BAB per level? I'll see if that's better than fighter - I'm looking for +1BAB per level classes that give combat benefits (preferrably taking advantages of CHA, so I don't need to pump both WIS and CHA).

I'm sure buying the magic items is going to come out close, I'll be haggling for every gp, most likely.

Hey - what about Crafting them? Specifically, the XP cost?


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## Jeremy (Nov 8, 2002)

Generally I'd recommend you have 120,000 XP and 260,000 GP to spend in whatever way you choose.  Be it item creation (saving money but costing XP), extensive multiclassing (occasional benefits but possibly costing XP), etc.

But I's not the DM.  

What method are we using for hit points?

My preliminary submission is up in the other thread.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 8, 2002)

Elric and have had a nearly complete uberfighter for a few days now...I think that will be his submission.  We are working on a mage.  Unfortunately, it looks like our various attempts at exploiting Maho are reaching a dead end, so we are going to need a new ploy.


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## Jeph (Nov 8, 2002)

The Shiba Protector has Cleric BAB, but if you have Wis 32, it makes up for it 20 times over.  It also gets a Haste ability at 6th level or so, pretty nice SR at high levels, Aid Shugenga, and bonusses to saves vs. spells. and the 10th level ability, One With All and Nothing, lets you use your highest ability modifier in place of another ability modifier, a number of times per day equal to your highest ability modifier.

Yeah, you get 260,000 GP, and 120,000 XP. I already said 50 point buy, right? And take half the die max +1 HP per level (3 for d4, 4 for d6, 5 for d8, 6 for d10, 7 for d12), no max at 1st level.

BTW, I'll let people take Extra Rage and Extend Rage for things like Defensive Stance, Ki Frenzy, and Frenzy. They're all 'rage-like abilities' in my book.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 8, 2002)

when you said "no alignment restrictions", that doesn't mean i can add Tribal Protector levels or Barbarian levels to Paladin and Singh Rager levels, right?


			
				Jeph said:
			
		

> *I don't have the book with the cat-race, I'm not even sure If they fit the ECL requirement. I'll call Corlon, and get the stats/book.
> 
> The Divine feats look very balanced, almost all got ratings above 4.0. *



Please call Corlon.  

We'll see if you think the Divine Feats are balanced when I get thru with them.  

And is Riposte the most broken damn feat you've ever seen, or what?!
Hey, give me a AoO whenever you miss me - ya, there's call for THAT in the game.


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## Jeremy (Nov 9, 2002)

I thought it was everytime your opponent misses due to expertise?


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## Jeph (Nov 9, 2002)

I would call Peter, but it's 10:00 here in Raleigh, NC.  

I'm not sure about Riposte, don't have the book. It's in Seafarer's HB, right? yeah, and that's what no alignment restrictions mean.


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## Elric (Nov 9, 2002)

Just wondering, what ability gives Buzzard's character a 15-20 x4 crit multiplier?  It seems to me that from Keen, Improved Crit and Deepwood Sniper it should be 18-20 x5.


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## Jeph (Nov 9, 2002)

I think it's some feat from KoK. Buzzard, please tell?


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## reapersaurus (Nov 9, 2002)

From NBoF:


> RIPOSTE [General]
> COPYRIGHT 2001, Carl Cramér
> After deflecting your opponents blow, you quicly attack
> while they are over extended.
> ...



What they forgot to say in the note is that it's insanely overpowered, it punishes the ATTACKER when they miss, it changes the rules by granting you tons of ectra attacks during other people's turns, and is unneeded.


> TUMBLING ATTACK [General]
> COPYRIGHT 2001, Brian A. Smith
> Execute a startling series of attacks while you tumble
> through your enemy’s midst.
> ...



umm... what were they smoking when they had multiple 'judges' approve this?
It changes the entire concept of dexterity-based fighters.
Now they're combat demons who get more attacks than 2WF specialists? At very low level, they can get 5 attacks, virtually guaranteed? (+2 to the DC for a Tumble specialist is a cake-walk, especially considering that Skill Focus (more than) nullifies it.

Jeph - what do you remember about the cat-people race?
Do you remember the ECL?
I'm hoping that this cat-like race will fit my character well, and provide some multiple-armed attack capability, and provide entrance into the Tribal Protector PrC (humans aren't eligible for that).


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## Jeph (Nov 10, 2002)

Okay, Corlon's on the phone right now: 

Knuk (pronounced nuke, like the weapon of mass destruction. )
Medium sized humanoid (feline)
HD: 1d8 (4)
Init: +2
Speed: 30'
AC: 14 (+2 dex, +2 natural)
Attacks: 4 shortswords -1 melee, or longbow +0 ranged and 2 daggers +0 ranged, or 4 claws +1 melee, and bite -4 melee
Damage: Shortswords 1d6+1, Longbow 1d8, Dagger 1d4+1, Claws 1d4+1, Bite 1d6
Face: 5'x5'/5'
Special: Low-light vision, multidexterity
Fort: +0
Ref: +4
Will: +2
Str: 12
dex: 15
con: 10
int: 10
wis: 14
cha: 11
Skills: Listen +4, Spot +4, wilderness lore +4
Feats: Multiweapon Fighting
CR: 1/2 (ECL +2)
Alignment: Usually Nuetral
Favored Class: Ranger
Average about 7' tall, males have horns, kinda like cat people


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## reapersaurus (Nov 10, 2002)

Thanks so much for looking into this for me.

so let me detail the class's benefits, to see if I have it right:
+2 STR, +4 DEX, +4 WIS
+2 natural armor
4 arms (and bite attack if using claws)
Low Light Vision
Favored Class: Ranger

any BAB?
I'm interested in taking the class - any possibility of tweaking it?
getting a plus to CHA instead of a different attribute, or different favored class (ranger DOES seem fairly appropriate, though).

[edit] I'm thinking of a tribe of cat-people, an offshoot from the normal ones, that are the favored children of Nobanion - who have close dealings with the Legion of Lions, and groom many of their tribe to follow the Lord Firemane's regal example. 
Favored Class: Cleric
Tribe alignment: LG
[/edit]

Or how does losing ALL the +2 STR, +4 DEX, and +4 WIS, also the +2 AC and making it a ECL +1 sound?

i notice I can't take the Shiba Protector PrC to get the bonus to WIS if I take this race (only human for PrC).
What all do you use to get up to 32 WIS? (other than +6 Periapt?)


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## DM_Matt (Nov 10, 2002)

Um, raper, don't you think that simply making up races goes a little far?

Besides, 4 arms is probably more than one ECL in itself.


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## Janos Audron (Nov 10, 2002)

Matt, you might want to spell that name correctly...


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## Jeph (Nov 10, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Thanks so much for looking into this for me.
> 
> so let me detail the class's benefits, to see if I have it right:
> +2 STR, +4 DEX, +4 WIS
> ...




Correct.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *any BAB?
> I'm interested in taking the class - any possibility of tweaking it?
> getting a plus to CHA instead of a different attribute, or different favored class (ranger DOES seem fairly appropriate, though).*




No BAB: It has 1 humanoid HD, and Humanoids have Cleric BAB. I'd allow you to get +2 Wis, +2 Cha instead of +4 wis.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *[edit] I'm thinking of a tribe of cat-people, an offshoot from the normal ones, that are the favored children of Nobanion - who have close dealings with the Legion of Lions, and groom many of their tribe to follow the Lord Firemane's regal example.
> Favored Class: Cleric
> Tribe alignment: LG
> [/edit]
> ...




Sorry, not a chance. That would make it a completely different race, sharing nothing but the number of arms and light physical appearance.



			
				reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *i notice I can't take the Shiba Protector PrC to get the bonus to WIS if I take this race (only human for PrC).
> What all do you use to get up to 32 WIS? (other than +6 Periapt?) *




Tome of Understanding (or something else that grants an inherant bonus) +4. 18 base +4 level +6 periapt +4 tome = 32 total for a nice +11 modifier. You might want to only get a +2 (if you'er considering it), as it's only 1 point of modifier in difference, and a LOT cheaper. Damn expensive, but it _can_ be worth it, for you primary score, and if you have enough cash.


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## Jeph (Nov 10, 2002)

Oh, and they get +2 Reflex and Will from their HD.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 10, 2002)

DM_Matt said:
			
		

> *Um, rEaper, don't you think that simply making up races goes a little far?*



yes, but it's Jeph's game, and race, and it fits the character. so I'll use it.

Question: when using an ECL +2 race, I'll have 14 other levels to add.
But would the Knuk get +3 in attribute 'ups' from levels, or +4?


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## Jeremy (Nov 10, 2002)

I think you misread tumbling attack a little.  

You get your full alotment of attacks though at -2 and can't attack twice from the same square.

It doesn't say you get an attack per -2 you take to the tumble, number of attacks is based on BAB as always.


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## Jeph (Nov 10, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *yes, but it's Jeph's game, and race, and it fits the character. so I'll use it.
> 
> Question: when using an ECL +2 race, I'll have 14 other levels to add.
> But would the Knuk get +3 in attribute 'ups' from levels, or +4? *




They'd get 3. Only 15 HD total, and 1 attribute up per 4 HD.

And btw, it's not a made up race. I forget which book it's in, but I'm having (an IRL) gameday tomorrow, So I'll just ask Corlon to bring it.


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## DM_Matt (Nov 11, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *yes, but it's Jeph's game, and race, and it fits the character. so I'll use it.
> *




And Jeph didn't let you do that thing involving rewriting most of the race to fit your character.  Thats what I was complaining about, not the base race.


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## buzzard (Nov 11, 2002)

Elric said:
			
		

> *Just wondering, what ability gives Buzzard's character a 15-20 x4 crit multiplier?  It seems to me that from Keen, Improved Crit and Deepwood Sniper it should be 18-20 x5. *




He uses tiger claw arrows from Kalamar Players Handbook. They have a critical of 19-20x2 and do slashing damage. They cost a bit more money (1 gp each), but by this point that is certainly moot. 

buzzard


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## Jeph (Nov 11, 2002)

And you didn't make them keen? tisk tisk.


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## buzzard (Nov 11, 2002)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *And you didn't make them keen? tisk tisk. *




All arrows shot by a Deepwood Sniper are keen automatically. That's how I get the nice juicy threat range. 19-20 for the arrows basic, 17-20 from keen, and 15-20 from improved critical. 
I could make one more weapon improvement, but I wasn't sure it it would be kosher. There is a Sniper's Bow in the AEG War book which has a threat range of 18-20. I wasn't sure how this would stack with my various feats and items, so I skipped it. If you want to make a ruling on it I may just use it. 

It is a +3 weapon equivalent, and has that nice juicy threat range. If you have the book give it a looksee and let me know how you would fit it into my stacked abilities. If not, I don't really care since taking it would me some more tradeoffs. 

buzzard


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## Jeph (Nov 12, 2002)

The Sniper's Bow is magic, right? Then, it doesn't stack with Keen.

After today, 2 more days to submit your characters to the Rogue's gallery thread.


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## buzzard (Nov 12, 2002)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *The Sniper's Bow is magic, right? Then, it doesn't stack with Keen.
> 
> After today, 2 more days to submit your characters to the Rogue's gallery thread. *




That's what I figured so I decided to pass on it. 

buzzard


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## Elric (Nov 13, 2002)

reaper- Riposte is very powerful.  Remember, that you only get 1 AoO on anyone in a given round, so Riposte is at most 1 more attack on someone.  I would also mention that the Divine feats are potentially very abusive- do you want your +25 Cha modifier applied twice to AC, attack, and damage?


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## reapersaurus (Nov 13, 2002)

Elric said:
			
		

> *reaper- Riposte is very powerful.  Remember, that you only get 1 AoO on anyone in a given round, so Riposte is at most 1 more attack on someone.  I would also mention that the Divine feats are potentially very abusive- do you want your +25 Cha modifier applied twice to AC, attack, and damage? *



About Riposte - the problem _I_ have with it, is you didn't give up anything to get that extra attack.
The guy misses you, and you get to take advantage of him on his action.

It did make me think of a better Feat: "Take the HIT" : You choose to let an attacker automatically hit you, and you receive an AoO against them.

And yes, the Divine Feats I sure hope will prove to be as abusive as all get out - and that +25 CHA modifier is pretty close to what I have worked up so far.


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## Jeph (Nov 13, 2002)

I think there are 1 or 2 feats in OA that do _something_ along those lines . . .


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## Elric (Nov 14, 2002)

Jeph- what is the policy regarding cohorts?  Can we have our cohorts take Leadership?  Also, how do we deal with cohort's gold?  Can we make them give us all of it?  What about their cohorts?


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## Jeph (Nov 14, 2002)

Elric said:
			
		

> *Jeph- what is the policy regarding cohorts?  Can we have our cohorts take Leadership?  Also, how do we deal with cohort's gold?  Can we make them give us all of it?  What about their cohorts?  *




Let's asume that all cohorts are greedy (no gold for you!), antisocial (couldn't lead a fly) schmucks.


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## Jeph (Nov 16, 2002)

Okay, two or three things.

1) The Character thread has become unbelievably cluttered
2) Technically, yesterday was the cut-off date for characters, but since only 1 3/4 of them are in, I guess I'll extend it by a week or so
3) this thread is falling down. Bump.


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## Jeph (Nov 17, 2002)

*whoops, I *BUMP*ed my head*

......[]
....[....]
..[........]
[............]
......[]
......[]
......[]
......[]
......[]


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## reapersaurus (Nov 17, 2002)

wow.
Coolest... Bump... Evar!  

I'm still getting the details written out - should be finalized by tonight.


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## Jeph (Nov 19, 2002)

*HURRY UP!*

Tomorrows the last day to post your finished characters.  Game starts a day or two after that.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 19, 2002)

i did more work last night and this morning.
hopefully published tonight.
(is there an echo in here?)


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## garyh (Nov 19, 2002)

Don't think I'll be able to make a PC.  I just don't have the time to perfect a truly worthy munchkin.  Sorry, Jeph.  I'll follow along, and enjoy the SMACK, though.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 20, 2002)

gary - please advance Bruk to epic proportions (well, as epic as non-epic PC's get, if that makes sense) 

I wanna see that green text flying when the shiete goes down. 

Didn't you have a pretty good handle on the powers that you wanted from FCtF? Just advance some normal clases, drape on more Hero levels, and go to town - doesn't have to be perfected, just fun.


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## garyh (Nov 20, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *gary - please advance Bruk to epic proportions (well, as epic as non-epic PC's get, if that makes sense)
> 
> I wanna see that green text flying when the shiete goes down.
> 
> Didn't you have a pretty good handle on the powers that you wanted from FCtF? Just advance some normal clases, drape on more Hero levels, and go to town - doesn't have to be perfected, just fun. *




I pretty much planned on just advancing all his existing powers.  The problem is, I just don't have time to create a 16th level character (at least, not one that PCGen can't do) just now.  The shiete is hitting the fan right now at grad school.  Maybe I can join the group in a couple weeks, Jeph?  I mean, it's not like the plot will suffer any if a _hulk_ing orc shows up all of a sudden - it's a munchkin game!!


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## Janos Audron (Nov 20, 2002)

Jeph, I have posted some question in the Rogue gallery thread. Could you please answer them?


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## Jeph (Nov 20, 2002)

garyh said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I pretty much planned on just advancing all his existing powers.  The problem is, I just don't have time to create a 16th level character (at least, not one that PCGen can't do) just now.  The shiete is hitting the fan right now at grad school.  Maybe I can join the group in a couple weeks, Jeph?  I mean, it's not like the plot will suffer any if a hulking orc shows up all of a sudden - it's a munchkin game!!   *




Plot? Huh . . .

Yeah, it will probably be fine. If everyone hasn't died by then.


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