# Babylon 5: Lost Tails



## Hand of Evil (Jul 31, 2007)

Okay as many of you may know, Babylon 5 has come direct to DVD releases set for TODAY 07/31!, well, one of the sites I visit has some little bit of info on it, plus a couple of images...drool.  


http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?threadid=522847&utm_medium=plugblock&utm_source=cgtalk







Trailer: http://babylon5.warnerbros.com/


----------



## Volaran (Jul 31, 2007)

Babylon 5 The Lost Tales came out today.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Jul 31, 2007)

Volaran said:
			
		

> Babylon 5 The Lost Tales came out today.
> 
> Edit: I should clarify that.  It came out today in Canada.  I thought the U.S. release date was the 27th of July.



The 31st...I must be getting it confused with the webisodes.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 31, 2007)

Pretty good article on it here.


----------



## Meloncov (Jul 31, 2007)

Should be coming in from Amazon later today.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (Jul 31, 2007)

Wow, I have been out of it not to hear about this until now.  I recall hearing something a while back about a Direct-to-DVD production, but nothing since.  Time to see how many pennies I have to buy this...ooh, the wife got a $5 Amazon credit for pre-ordering Harry Potter, maybe I can convince her to use it on this!


----------



## Dark Psion (Jul 31, 2007)

http://www.tvguide.com/special/dvd/

Here's a link to a code for an additional 5% off.


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 31, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> Pretty good article on it here.




Hehe...that would be an article I wrote


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Jul 31, 2007)

Man I hate Lochley but I'll have to grab this.  Is the rest of the cast minus G'Kar and the Doctor in it?


----------



## KaosDevice (Jul 31, 2007)

I had this on pre-order from Amazon. I'm really, really looking forward to it! Even if it isn't as good as the show and as long as it doesn't suck as much as Legend of the Rangers I am happy to have more B5.


----------



## Volaran (Jul 31, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> Man I hate Lochley but I'll have to grab this.  Is the rest of the cast minus G'Kar and the Doctor in it?




Speaking roles include a Priest (Father Cassidy), Lochley, a Security Guard, another station staff member/thing, a reporter, Sheridan, Galen, and Centauri Prince Regent Vintari.  That would be all that come to mind.


----------



## Zog (Aug 1, 2007)

Have it, watched it.

Two vignettes, a pair of small, almost quiet stories with minimal interaction with known/established events, concerns or mysteries.  

There is a very nice tribute to G'Kar and the Doctor, both their characters and the actors.

But, the sock puppets????


----------



## Meloncov (Aug 2, 2007)

Zog said:
			
		

> But, the sock puppets????




It was an ongoing joke during early interviews about the Lost Tails.


----------



## lrsach01 (Aug 2, 2007)

I'd agree that the homage to G'kar and Steven (the doctor) was touching, but I was disappointed in the movie. As pieces of a bigger episode, they would have been great. One of the things that made B5 so much fun was the multiple layers of stories in each episode. This had NONE of that. I liked the Lochley story...nice little spin at the end, but I found Sheridan's story all too predictable. Still, I bought it and I will buy another if we are lucky enough to get more. Bad B5 is better than no B5.


----------



## Meloncov (Aug 2, 2007)

I think they were trying to make these stand alone and perhaps gather new fans. Note the lack of any mention of the older races, and few mentions of any of the events of the series. Sadly, this interfered with the layering of stories.


----------



## Volaran (Aug 2, 2007)

Meloncov said:
			
		

> I think they were trying to make these stand alone and perhaps gather new fans. Note the lack of any mention of the older races, and few mentions of any of the events of the series. Sadly, this interfered with the layering of stories.




The Vorlons do get a mention 



Spoiler



when they talk about where the technology for accessing "Quantum Space", though the Vorlons had always been shown to use standard hyperspace previously.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 2, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> Man I hate Lochley but I'll have to grab this.  Is the rest of the cast minus G'Kar and the Doctor in it?



G'Kar I think so but the guy that played the Doctor, passed away a couple of years ago.


----------



## Volaran (Aug 2, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> G'Kar I think so but the guy that played the Doctor, passed away a couple of years ago.




Andreas Katsulas (G'kar) is also dead, which is why I believe Flexor excluded him.  The only regular characters from Babylon 5 and Crusade who are in this edition of the Lost Tales are Sheridan, Lochley and Galen.


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 2, 2007)

Volaran said:
			
		

> Andreas Katsulas (G'kar) is also dead, which is why I believe Flexor excluded him.  The only regular characters from Babylon 5 and Crusade who are in this edition of the Lost Tales are Sheridan, Lochley and Galen.




That sucks.  I was at least hoping for Londo, Vir, Garabaldi, or some of the others.  Just those 3 kind of sucks.  Oh well I'm sure I'll still buy it.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 2, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> That sucks.  I was at least hoping for Londo, Vir, Garabaldi, or some of the others.  Just those 3 kind of sucks.  Oh well I'm sure I'll still buy it.




I watched it. It was pretty good.

I expected it to be a movie, but it was really just two Babylon 5 episodes that loosely fit together. 

As the first begins, Lockley is preparing for Sheridan to arrive for a 10th anniversary celebration of the interstellar alliance.

As the second begins, Sheridan is arriving for said celebration. 

Still, it was two more B-5 episodes, one focusing on Lockley and one focusing on Sheridan and Galen so it's hard to complain about that 

Chuck


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 2, 2007)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> I watched it. It was pretty good.
> 
> I expected it to be a movie, but it was really just two Babylon 5 episodes that loosely fit together.
> 
> ...




I really dislike Lockley though.  Season 5 was a huge drop off from Season 1-4, except the Londo episodes.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 2, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> I really dislike Lockley though.  Season 5 was a huge drop off from Season 1-4, except the Londo episodes.




Yeah, she's ok in this. It's one of JMS' patented "is it an alien or is it a deep religious mystery" episodes too. 

Still, I rented it from netflix, and really enjoyed the second episode with Sheridan, so I considered it a quite worthwhile rental.


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 2, 2007)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Yeah, she's ok in this. It's one of JMS' patented "is it an alien or is it a deep religious mystery" episodes too.
> 
> Still, I rented it from netflix, and really enjoyed the second episode with Sheridan, so I considered it a quite worthwhile rental.



I'll throw it in my queue and check it out anyway. Thanks for the info.


----------



## trancejeremy (Aug 2, 2007)

You got it from Netflix already? It still says "Very long wait" for me.


----------



## Jhamin (Aug 2, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> That sucks.  I was at least hoping for Londo, Vir, Garabaldi, or some of the others.  Just those 3 kind of sucks.  Oh well I'm sure I'll still buy it.





This is supposed to be the first in a series of several direct to DVD B5 stories.  So maybe we will get lucky in the next couple.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (Aug 2, 2007)

Jhamin said:
			
		

> This is supposed to be the first in a series of several direct to DVD B5 stories.  So maybe we will get lucky in the next couple.



 My understanding from what I found about this is that it originally was supposed to be three stories, with the third starring Garabaldi.  Once they knew the budget, they pared it back to two stories and hope to include the Garabaldi story in a later release.


----------



## trancejeremy (Aug 25, 2007)

Finally got this from Netflix!  Glad I didn't buy it.  

The 2nd story was good (if a little short), but the first was pretty "meh".  Too much talking and seemed almost a ripoff of the Exorcist III (including a lot of the shots).

Nice seeing Teryl Rothery in the 2nd story as well.  And the guy who played the Centauran prince in the 2nd story did a really good job.  Nice special effects, too, much improved over the Amiga style graphics of the original show.

Still, overall too much Lochley. Is she JMS's girlfriend or something?  She's almost like a female George Hamilton, minus the camp value. Kinda creepy.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 25, 2007)

The Lochley episode was the weaker one, but consider: set on Babylon 5, a strange mysterious happening that could be spiritual and could be alien, two people who BOTH had a crisis of faith getting their talk on... 

Sounds a LOT like Babylon 5 to me. 

It probably would have been more entertaining with a different character though. 

But yeah, the second one, putting Sheridan in a moral dilemma, was very nice.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Aug 25, 2007)

I agree that the first episode was the weaker of the two. I think the underlying premise was fascinating, but it was--even for JMS --too verbose.

I also would have preferred if they'd touched more on the "Is it really a demon or is it an alien?" question. B5 was always really good about leaving both possibilities open; this one seemed to come down pretty hard on the "it's actually theological/supernatural" issue.

OTOH, I'd love to see the plotline come up again in future installments, where perhaps they can get into just that.

The second episode, I thought, was almost quintessential B5. I love the fact that, 10 years later, Bruce Boxleitner is still Sheridan. There was no disconnect, no nothing; it really was like stepping back in time, vis-a-vis the character.

My only complaint about the second one is that I'd have liked more of the original cast involved. One of the best thing about B5 always was the way the characters interacted with and influenced each other. I'm afraid that, in a series of vignettes that only focuses on one at a time, we're going to lose that.

Oh, I was really moved by the G'kar voiceover at the start. I miss Andres Katsulas.  (And Richard Biggs, though I admit not as much.) And the memorials to them--both in the episode itself, and in the special features--were also really touching.

Overall, not a home run, but definitely at least a base hit, and I'll be getting future installments if/when they're released.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 26, 2007)

Yeah, I think the (lack of) budget is going to limit what they can do.

Still, it's B5! I never expected more B5, so I'm happy. 

And we did have character interaction in the second one, just depends on how much you like Galen.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Aug 26, 2007)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> And we did have character interaction in the second one, just depends on how much you like Galen.




Galen's okay. But it's just not the same as seeing any of the _actual_ gang together. I'd love to see Sheridan and Garibaldi, or Sheridan and Delenn, or Garibaldi and Zack Allen, or any combination thereof.

I want to see what happened with Lennier after he left, and I want to see Delenn involved with the resolution. I want to see Sheridan and Ivonova working together again. That sort of thing.


----------



## Blastin (Aug 27, 2007)

So anyone know if these did well enough to merit a second installment sales wise?


----------



## qstor (Aug 27, 2007)

Blastin said:
			
		

> So anyone know if these did well enough to merit a second installment sales wise?





I don't think there's any word from Warner Brothers yet. I know JMS is pretty busy too. I hang out at jmsnews.com for the latest B5 updates 

Mike


----------



## Holy Bovine (Aug 27, 2007)

I feel pretty silly for having missed these completely when they first came out.  I found about them at Costco of all places when they had this big sale on the B5 TV series DVD sets ($28 CAN for each season!).  I'll pick them up this weekend though - as someone else said bad B5 is better than no B5 and these don't sound too bad.  I am just amazed that we are getting more B5 after almost ten years!  Very cool!


----------



## DreadPirateMurphy (Aug 31, 2007)

I thought the character interaction between Galen and Sheridan was great, especially when Sheridan finally says, basically, "Why don't you ever show me anything happy?"  LOL.

Season 5 was thrown awry by the almost-cancellation at the end of season 4, and so the somewhat dreadful Byron storyline took up more of the season.  I don't find Lochley to be that bad, though...I liked her part of the Rebo and Zooty episode quite a bit, actually.  Scoggins had a hard pair of shoes to fill, given the fan affection for the character of Ivanova.  (I was also touched by the fact that she started to tear up in the homage to Andreas Katsulas.)


----------



## danzig138 (Sep 1, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> The second episode, I thought, was almost quintessential B5. I love the fact that, 10 years later, Bruce Boxleitner is still Sheridan. There was no disconnect, no nothing; it really was like stepping back in time, vis-a-vis the character.



I loved it. You are correct about Sheridan. The only thing it was missing was one of his long "I love the sound of my voice" speeches that I always liked. Both were, in spirit, Babylon 5. I hope there is another offering, with a larger budget for more of the cast. I didn't mind this though, since Intersections in Real Time is probably my favorite episode. 

I am not at all disappointed that I pre-ordered this.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 2, 2007)

danzig138 said:
			
		

> The only thing it was missing was one of his long "I love the sound of my voice" speeches that I always liked.




Well, I think that's more a JMS scripting trait than a Sheridan character trait. And we got it _in spades_ in the first "episode" with Lochley. 



> I didn't mind this though, since Intersections in Real Time is probably my favorite episode.




I don't know if I'd call it one of my favorites--because I have a lot from that series --but yes, definitely an amazingly well done and impressive episode.


----------



## Volaran (Sep 2, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Well, I think that's more a JMS scripting trait than a Sheridan character trait. And we got it _in spades_ in the first "episode" with Lochley.




I'd agree with that statement.  Re-watching B5, there certainly seem to be moments when JMS is speaking rather than the individual character.  Boxleitner seemed better at delivering it than Scoggins, though.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 2, 2007)

Volaran said:
			
		

> Boxleitner seemed better at delivering it than Scoggins, though.




I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's because he's the better actor by a wide margin. Not that Scoggins is a _bad_ actor, necessarily, she's just... adequate.

Although, to be fair, she only had one season to get to know the character. Most of the B5 cast were definitely better as the show went on than they were in their first year. So maybe I should give her more credit. Nevertheless, I do think that--from both B5, and other things I've seen--that Boxleitner is, in fact, the better actor of the pair.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 2, 2007)

I do find it interesting, though, that _by far_ the best actors on the show were the alien ambassadors. I've yet to find anyone who disagrees that Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, and Mira Furlan were the top three actors on that show.

(Of course, now that I've posted it on the net, someone will disagree in 5... 4... 3...)


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Sep 2, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> I do find it interesting, though, that _by far_ the best actors on the show were the alien ambassadors. I've yet to find anyone who disagrees that Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, and Mira Furlan were the top three actors on that show.
> 
> (Of course, now that I've posted it on the net, someone will disagree in 5... 4... 3...)



2..1.. Honestly, I was never certain about Mira Furlan. But maybe the only thing that irked me might have been her character (and maybe some of the dialogs she got?)
But then, I also seem to be one of the few that preferred Sinclair over Sheridan. 

But I wholeheartedly with the first two. The actors and their characters were great.


----------



## Blastin (Sep 2, 2007)

Gotta agree with the Mouse...those three were my favorites, along with Veer.
  I always thought that was one of the things that separated B5 from other scifi shows: The alien characters were VERY important, and some of the best characters, and there were ALOT of them, not just the token alien...


----------



## Meloncov (Sep 3, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> I do find it interesting, though, that _by far_ the best actors on the show were the alien ambassadors. I've yet to find anyone who disagrees that Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, and Mira Furlan were the top three actors on that show.
> 
> (Of course, now that I've posted it on the net, someone will disagree in 5... 4... 3...)




Right on schedule, I'd put Stephen Furst ahead of Mira Furlan.


----------



## danzig138 (Sep 3, 2007)

Volaran said:
			
		

> Boxleitner seemed better at delivering it than Scoggins, though.



Which is why I associate it as a Sheridan trait - Boxleitner has his own way of doing the speeches that I just get a kick out of. He's the only one who when doing them, radiates that he likes his own voice. 

I actually grew quite fond of Scoggins in the 5th, even though I was miffed about her initially. But The Lost Tales was not her best B5 performance. 

While I do agree that Jurasik and Katsulas (rest in peace) were the best actors on the show by far, I don't think I can agree on a third. Furlan and Boxleitner were pretty equal in my eyes in terms of delivery, and the guys who did Lenier, Garabaldi, and Vir were all pretty good most of the time. Overall, I think the entire cast was pretty good. The acting weak spot on B5 seemed to be the guest stars.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 3, 2007)

danzig138 said:
			
		

> Furlan and Boxleitner were pretty equal in my eyes in terms of delivery, and the guys who did Lenier, Garabaldi, and Vir were all pretty good most of the time. Overall, I think the entire cast was pretty good. The acting weak spot on B5 seemed to be the guest stars.




Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) is a perfect example of what I meant about people on that show growing into their roles, given time. Frankly, he was barely adequate--with occasional dips into awful--in the early part of season 1. But by the middle of the series, and all the way through the end, he was one of the strongest actors on the show, shy of the three I mentioned earlier. 

And as far as the guest stars, I guess it depends who you mean. Some of the guest stars were pretty pathetic, yeah. OTOH, many of the guest stars--including, but not limited to, Ed Wasser (Morden), Wortham Krimmer (Emperor Cartagia), Wayne Alexander (a bunch of aliens), and of course Walter Koenig (Bester)--definitely held their own with the main cast.


----------



## Rackhir (Sep 3, 2007)

Vir did have the single greatest moment in B5.



Spoiler



Londo tells Vir that he has a surprise for him and tells him to go out side. Where he goes and looks up, where upon it suddenly cuts to a scene from a couple of seasons earlier.

_Mr. Morden: What do YOU want? 

Ambassador Vir Cotto: I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this. 
[waves] 

Ambassador Vir Cotto: Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?_

At which point it cuts to him looking up at Morden's head on a pike and he waves like just like that.


----------



## Brakkart (Sep 3, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> And as far as the guest stars, I guess it depends who you mean. Some of the guest stars were pretty pathetic, yeah. OTOH, many of the guest stars--including, but not limited to, Ed Wasser (Morden), Wortham Krimmer (Emperor Cartagia), Wayne Alexander (a bunch of aliens), and of course Walter Koenig (Bester)--definitely held their own with the main cast.




And not forgetting Tim Choate (Zathras) now also sadly deceased in a motorbike accident. Wayne Alexander's most notable roles are Lorien and also Sebastian (The Inquisitor). But yeah of the guest stars Morden, Cartagia and Bester were by far the best characters.

Of the main cast I'll add in some praise for Jason Carter as Macus Cole, a really charismatic character who was also tough as nails when he needed to be.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 3, 2007)

Brakkart said:
			
		

> And not forgetting Tim Choate (Zathras) now also sadly deceased in a motorbike accident.




He is?!?!

 

I hadn't heard that. That really, really sucks.

And yes, I should've included him. A fantastic performance, granting an element of personality and even (in a few instances) gravitas to what could've been a _purely_ campy comic-relief character.


----------



## Plane Sailing (Sep 4, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) is a perfect example of what I meant about people on that show growing into their roles, given time. Frankly, he was barely adequate--with occasional dips into awful--in the early part of season 1. But by the middle of the series, and all the way through the end, he was one of the strongest actors on the show,




I seem to remember that he had almost never acted before B5 (he was a stock market trader or something, and... oh, I've found it on his official site:



> At the height of a successful ten-year career on Wall Street, Doyle decided on a new challenge. "I was 35 years old and in a position to take a shot at whatever I wanted to try," says Doyle. "The Air Force said I was too old to fly fighter jets. I thought about becoming a fishing boat captain, before deciding that acting seemed pretty cool," said Doyle.
> 
> In 1991, he packed up and headed to Hollywood. With no prior acting experience, Doyle hit the streets and phones with a vengeance. Within weeks of arriving in Los Angeles, he landed his first job. He was hired as a "day player" on The Bold and the Beautiful, this role lasted almost a year. He then went on to star in the long-running sci-fi series Babylon 5.




Probably explains why he was a little ropey in season 1, but grew into it


----------



## Blastin (Sep 4, 2007)

Brakkart said:
			
		

> Of the main cast I'll add in some praise for Jason Carter as Macus Cole, a really charismatic character who was also tough as nails when he needed to be.




Ohh...I'll second that one....I really liked his character....was a bit miffed when they offed him, but it did fit perfectly with his character's history.


----------



## Merlion (Sep 8, 2007)

While trying not to get too far into the forums "forbidden zones..".....its interesting to me that JMS, who is supposedly an "athiest" (an often misused word) injects so much, shall we say pro-spiritual content into his work. 

  I think the Minbari belief system is pretty much his own.

I liked the Lost Tails, for the most part. Nothing super duper, but fun.

  I thought the part where Sheriden's secretary or whatever tells him the reporter lady is there and he says "Tell her I'm dead and throw her down the stairs," was especially funny.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 8, 2007)

First off, random pedantry: It's "Lost _Tales_." A "lost tail" would be a cat or a dog who can't find its backside.   



			
				Merlion said:
			
		

> While trying not to get too far into the forums "forbidden zones..".....its interesting to me that JMS, who is supposedly an "athiest" (an often misused word) injects so much, shall we say pro-spiritual content into his work.




I've often found that atheist and agnostic writers (myself included in the latter category) are often some of the most fascinated with religious and spiritual matters in fiction (again, myself included). I'm a huge fan of religious horror, such as movies like the Exorcist, Stigmata, and the Prophecy. I really enjoy playing, and creating material for, clerics and paladins. And while I've not yet had the chance to make a truly devout character the focus of any of my long fiction, I'd really love to do so (and the protagonist of my upcoming Ravenloft novel, while not truly devout, is at least partly defined by a _loss_ of faith).

(Don't worry, that's not really a spoiler. )

Not sure why it is, but the subject's fascinating to me.


----------



## Merlion (Sep 8, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> First off, random pedantry: It's "Lost _Tales_." A "lost tail" would be a cat or a dog who can't find its backside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Well, I think a lot of it also has to do with misused terminology. An Atheist is someone who doesnt believe in a god or gods. It doesnt make the person a materialist or secularist necessarily, but often its used in that way. I've even known people who identify as "atheists" who in reality simply werent members or supporters of a specific religion. I think JMS likely falls into one of these catagories. 

  The reason I tend to think this is that Babylon 5 not only often addresses and features spiritual and religious matters, it often seems to take a "pro spiritual" (if perhaps also anti organized religion) stance. As oposed to, say, Star Trek, where spirituality and religion are nearly nonexistant, and when they are there they are generally poo-pooed or end up being simply advanced aliens or lost supercomputers or whatever. 

  Its one of the things I love and find so refreshing about Babylon 5. Of course theres also the fact that while it is sci fi, its structure is very much like high fantasy..


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 8, 2007)

Merlion said:
			
		

> It doesnt make the person a materialist or secularist necessarily, but often its used in that way. I've even known people who identify as "atheists" who in reality simply werent members or supporters of a specific religion. I think JMS likely falls into one of these catagories.




Actually, I've seen, in several interviews and message board posts, JMS say in so many words that he does not believe in God/gods. So at least in his case, the term "atheist" is accurate.



> Its one of the things I love and find so refreshing about Babylon 5. Of course theres also the fact that while it is sci fi, its structure is very much like high fantasy..




I've noticed that myself.  I write almost nothing but fantasy, but I consider JMS one of my primary inspirations, and that's one of the (many) reasons why.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Sep 8, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Actually, I've seen, in several interviews and message board posts, JMS say in so many words that he does not believe in God/gods. So at least in his case, the term "atheist" is accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed that myself.  I write almost nothing but fantasy, but I consider JMS one of my primary inspirations, and that's one of the (many) reasons why.



I also see myself as an Atheist, but I am still often fascinated by religion and faith. 
Where did it come from? Why do we "keep it around"? How does it affect those that believe (and how do they affect others)? What does it mean to be religious/faithful? 
I think JMS is the same, and he also enjoys exploring it with his stories.


----------



## Merlion (Sep 8, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Actually, I've seen, in several interviews and message board posts, JMS say in so many words that he does not believe in God/gods. So at least in his case, the term "atheist" is accurate.
> .





  Yes. But, judging solely from his work, I think perhaps he does believe in something beyond the physical. I think the Minbari belief system...and also G'Kars speech at one point about shining a light on the wall...wherein sentient beings are believed to have souls as fragments of the Universe, trying to figure itself out, may very well be taken right from his own worldview. Many characters seem to speak of The Universe in a manner much like God. 

  Like I said, not believing in deities doesnt make one a materialist, or believer only in the physical.


  And there are certainly many elements in B5 which are clearly anti-organized-religion. The first segment of Lost Tales, for example....when Lochley tells the demon thingy that it "isnt part of" mankind's "new dream", as well as of course the end of the fourth season where the Younger Races basically tell the First Ones to take a hike, strike me as rejections of rigid, controlling organized religion, but not necessarily of spirituality. 


  It definitely makes for some great stories, and I always find it refreshing for anyone, especially in sci fi/fantasy to tackle those things in such an open minded, not totally hostile way.


----------



## Meloncov (Sep 8, 2007)

Merlion said:
			
		

> Yes. But, judging solely from his work, I think perhaps he does believe in something beyond the physical. I think the Minbari belief system...and also G'Kars speech at one point about shining a light on the wall...wherein sentient beings are believed to have souls as fragments of the Universe, trying to figure itself out, may very well be taken right from his own worldview. Many characters seem to speak of The Universe in a manner much like God.




I think this is less a matter of JMS being a pantheist, and more a matter of him realizing that religion is inherently part of the human expierence, and that it can be a force for both good (the minbari, G'kar) or evil (First Ones, Believers).


----------



## Merlion (Sep 9, 2007)

Meloncov said:
			
		

> I think this is less a matter of JMS being a pantheist, and more a matter of him realizing that religion is inherently part of the human expierence, and that it can be a force for both good (the minbari, G'kar) or evil (First Ones, Believers).





  Perhaps. But I personally tend to put a lot of my beliefs into my writing. And it is often relatively safe to feel that the points of view frequently expressed by the main/central/good guy characters of a story, especially one where views are clearly at play, probably match up pretty closely with the writers.


  Especially coupled with the fact that most fantasy writers are people who maintain a strong sense of wonder and belief in things like magic...or at least the desire to believe these things.

  No way to be sure of course, its just the feeling I've always gotten from B5


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 9, 2007)

Merlion said:
			
		

> Perhaps. But I personally tend to put a lot of my beliefs into my writing. And it is often relatively safe to feel that the points of view frequently expressed by the main/central/good guy characters of a story, especially one where views are clearly at play, probably match up pretty closely with the writers.




Hmm... I don't think it's as safe a bet as you think. I know, from personal experience, that many of my favorite characters to write are those who _don't_ share the same beliefs/spirituality that I do. (Unless you count "smart-ass" as a belief system. )

My point, though, is that it's really very dependent on the writer. There are, indeed, many writers who put their own beliefs and POV into their characters--but there are just as many who go the exact opposite route, and many more for whom it depends on the character and/or project.


----------



## Meloncov (Sep 9, 2007)

Merlion said:
			
		

> Perhaps. But I personally tend to put a lot of my beliefs into my writing. And it is often relatively safe to feel that the points of view frequently expressed by the main/central/good guy characters of a story, especially one where views are clearly at play, probably match up pretty closely with the writers.




But which of the good guys would his views match up with? Geraboldi is agnostic, Sinclair and Sheridan seemingly nominally Christian (probably protestant), Ivanova Jewish, the Minbari pantheist, Franclin Foundationist (which appears to be based on modern Unitarianism), Lockley Catholic, G'kar a cross between Buddhism and Deism, and Kosh who-knows-what. There's no way that all of those could match JMS's beliefs.  

Also, I've heard an interview where JMS says something to the effect of "I know they'll still be religion in the future. I may not like it, but it'll be there."


----------

