# Please turn on search (i read the FAQ)



## Cergorach (Jul 10, 2002)

First, yes i read the FAQ, i know why the search feature was turned off in the past.

But we're now on a mega new machine that theoretically could handle the strain.

Why i want this? Not to search for the occasional subject. It's for me not getting nuts! I keep seeing new threads popping up every five days with Fields of Blood in the header. I keep wanting to yell, LOOK BEFORE YOU ASK! But i can't very well expect people to browse through each and every page to search for the subject they are looking for, now can i.

Thus pleaseeeeeeee Morrus! Turn on the search feature again, or i might loose the little bit of sanity i have left. The strain caused by the search feature should be offset by the fact that people would make less similar posts in a small period of time. Pleaseeeee run a trial run.


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## Piratecat (Jul 10, 2002)

I believe that search is available only to community supporters. I could be mistaken, though.


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## Morrus (Jul 10, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *I believe that search is available only to community supporters. I could be mistaken, though. *




You'd be correct.  It's available to those who helped pay for the server that made the feature possible.


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## Cergorach (Jul 10, 2002)

Erm... I know that, but the community supporters aren't the problem, people who post and don't look any further than their nose is long (something gets lost in the translation ;-) are the problem. It pollutes the forums, it pollutes the database, it annoys people, it makes people rude (how many times do you answer the exact same question pollitely), it's making me nuts (no nuts no glory!).

What would it take to get the Search function to be made public again? Giving community supporters all kinds of dandy features is pretty nice and brings in some hard needed cash, but the search function is one of the more essential features of a BBS.


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## Piratecat (Jul 10, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *...but the search function is one of the more essential features of a BBS. *




So, my friend, are donations.


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## Cergorach (Jul 10, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *
> 
> So, my friend, are donations.   *




I know and understand that perfectly, therefore i ask what is needed to release the search function to the public again...

I wasn't  a 'community supporter' yet (i kind of forgot, sorry), so i signed up three minutes ago. But that still doesn't solve the darned problem!

I don't know about the other folks who payed for the comming year, but i don't really mind it if i pay for features that someone else uses...


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## Piratecat (Jul 10, 2002)

Sorry, I was being pithy, not helpful.   I understand what you're saying.  I'll let Morrus address this, I think.

And thank you for donating!!


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## Morrus (Jul 10, 2002)

Problem is, that would be vastly unfair to those that actually donated for the privilage.


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## Cergorach (Jul 10, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Problem is, that would be vastly unfair to those that actually donated for the privilage. *




Why not post a poll for the people who payed for the privilage? Or send a private message to everyone who has payed for the privilage and ask them? And why unfair, we still have other kewl options to play with, and plenty of reason to feel L33T.


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## Morrus (Jul 10, 2002)

As long as there is a single person who feels that it's unfair, then it's unfair.  This isn't a majority situation.  Any poll would have to result in a _completely_ unanimous vote from those who have aid.


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## Cergorach (Jul 11, 2002)

It's worth a try isn't it?

Also, unless everyone agrees on it, there will never be a public search function because it's unfair for the people who donated? I don't want to push you into a corner, but you really need to think long and hard about this point, because you are creating a certain elitism...


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## Piratecat (Jul 11, 2002)

I don't have any problems with only community supporters being able to search, and I don't see the need for a poll. I'm sorry that there are reposts and revisited threads as a result, but that's the tradeoff. If people aqre going to be good enough to support the site, they deserve to get something for it.  The ability to search is one of those things.


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## Morrus (Jul 11, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *It's worth a try isn't it?
> 
> Also, unless everyone agrees on it, there will never be a public search function because it's unfair for the people who donated? I don't want to push you into a corner, but you really need to think long and hard about this point, because you are creating a certain elitism... *




It's not something you can "convince" me of, because I don't regard myself as having the power to make the decision.  I can't turn round and do that to one single person, let alone a whole bunch of people, any more than a shop owner can turn up at your house and say "Yeah, we're taking that TV back, but it's OK because Mrs Miggins down the road voted that we could when he held a little poll."


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## Cergorach (Jul 11, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *It's not something you can "convince" me of, because I don't regard myself as having the power to make the decision.  I can't turn round and do that to one single person, let alone a whole bunch of people, any more than a shop owner can turn up at your house and say "Yeah, we're taking that TV back, but it's OK because Mrs Miggins down the road voted that we could when he held a little poll." *




Erm... No offense Morrus, but who the heck has? If you say no one, then who created this situation, surely (s)he must have the 'power'.

I also read the following when i donated:


> *  You understand that this is a voluntary donation that grants you additional features, and that you are not required to pay anything to use the messageboards.
> * You understand that you are still bound by the rules of this messageboard, and that breaking those rules will result in closed, deleted or edited messages or an outright ban (either temporary or permanent) as usual. The "But I paid!" defense will hold absolutely no water.
> * The payment is a voluntary donation, and as such is non-refundable.
> * This does not make you anything "special" or any more important than users who have not purchased an account. Absolutely no elitism will be tolerated.



Point three and four are of particular interest, the payment made is a donation only. No one can claim the actually paid for exclusive rights to certain functions. It might seem unfair to some that that 'had' to pay for the features to get them, point four comes then to mind, elitism...

Morrus, you can keep telling us that it's a community server, but final responsibility is still on your shoulders (Ack! You probably didn't want to hear that ;-). You have big ass server there that has enough power to handle the search function, it's a shame not to use it...


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## Morrus (Jul 11, 2002)

It's quite simple.  I said to people "if you donate you'll be able to use these features, wheras those who don't won't".  That's the way I convinced people to donate the money that means we're even able to have this conversation now.   Are you suggesting that now I have their money I turn round and say "Hah! Screw you, I was lying!"?

Secondly, I'll need contoinuing donations over time to keep the server going.  So poeple need to be offered somehting in exchange for those donations.  In this case, they get Search etc. Unless you have another miraculous money-making idea (or a massive donation, perhaps?) it's a situation we're all stuck with.  It's this or no server.


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## Psionicist (Jul 11, 2002)

You both have valid points, however I must agree that search is one of the most basic things that makes large communities like this one work. Cannot we trade the search for lots of new nifty things to the supporters? Like, all supporters can have avatars, signatures yadda yadda but the rest of us can't, as long as *all* members can use the search function?

I just want to read posts, post replies, create my own threads and search for answers before I ask the question.

Amen.


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## Psionicist (Jul 11, 2002)

I have an incredibly good money-saving idea right here:

Take your server, plug it in to one of your friends broadband connections... and... Tah-dih-dah! 

I would never pay for anything else than the DNS service (that is the domain name pointing to the right computer). I am running all my webbypages from an old P200 connected to the world from one of my friends house. He pays somewhere around $20 per month for unlimted bandwidth, 20mbits (enough for my and his needs), and I give him $5 / month for his help. That is much cheaper than most major hosts $200 / month


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## Cergorach (Jul 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Morrus _*It's quite simple.  I said to people "if you donate you'll be able to use these features, wheras those who don't won't".  That's the way I convinced people to donate the money that means we're even able to have this conversation now.   Are you suggesting that now I have their money I turn round and say "Hah! Screw you, I was lying!"?
> *



*
I believe your exact words where: "By purchasing a Community Supporter member account, you get all of the above for a period of one year." There's nothing in there that says The rest of the world won't, but i know how you feel. I personally don't mind donating $25 a year to keep this site going, i really don't need a custom title (but it's still kewl ;-) to do that. I just have to remember and have to be in a reasonable financial situation (the first is much harder than the second for me).



			Secondly, I'll need contoinuing donations over time to keep the server going.  So poeple need to be offered somehting in exchange for those donations.  In this case, they get Search etc. Unless you have another miraculous money-making idea (or a massive donation, perhaps?) it's a situation we're all stuck with.  It's this or no server.
		
Click to expand...


*Massive donation? I wish i could, but i'm everything but rich. As i don't have a clue about the financial situation of EnWorld i'm only guessing. The greatest expense the last year was the server upgrade, theoretically the server doesn't need an upgrade ever. The community might get a bit larger, but nothing the server could not handle, the software is free and currently works fine, thus that shouldn't really pose a problem either. Then we have general harware failure, this shouldn't be a problem for the next three years (the corporate livespan of most computers), but if it doesn't brake it should go on for a long time. Then we have monthly costs for the internet connection, theoretically the advertisements should take care of that, but i have a feeling it isn't enough, thus then you need extra cash to pay for the connections. My solution would be, lets see whether the community can by it self generate the cash by donating, or otherwise if the bank account gets empty turn off some features and start asking for an entrance 'fee' again (like your doing now).

Btw, how much traffic (gigs) does Enworld generate (the site and the board together)?


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## Furn_Darkside (Jul 11, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *Erm... I know that, but the community supporters aren't the problem, people who post and don't look any further than their nose is long (something gets lost in the translation ;-) are the problem. It pollutes the forums, it pollutes the database, it annoys people, it makes people rude (how many times do you answer the exact same question pollitely), it's making me nuts (no nuts no glory!).
> *




Salutations,

These forums would be dead if we didn't repeat discussions over and over. haha.

It is hardly pollution. It is the nature of the internet. People come and go. Opinions stay and some change. 

And even if it annoys people, it does not give them right to be rude. (Something I need to remind myself of.. heh)

FD


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## Furn_Darkside (Jul 11, 2002)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> *
> My solution would be, lets see whether the community can by it self generate the cash by donating, or otherwise if the bank account gets empty turn off some features and start asking for an entrance 'fee' again (like your doing now).
> *




This was tried before- people could just donate money. Nothing was offered in return. 

I guess it did not work then. (hey, don't blame me, I chipped in)

FD


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## Piratecat (Jul 11, 2002)

I'll be slightly more blunt. Cergorach, unless someone decides to donate a very large amount of money to EN World, search will _not_ be turned on for non-Community Supporters.  That's part of the bargain Morrus has made with the people who use the site, and that's the way it stands.  I'm sorry, but complaining is not going to change that.  Period.

I hope that's clearer, and I apologize if I was rude, but you don't seem to understand that this isn't a negotiable option.

Oh, and Psionicist? I don't think you understand the amount of bandwidth we use. A home cable connection wouldn't be appropriate. (Good to see you, though!  You've been hiding.  )


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## Cergorach (Jul 11, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *I hope that's clearer, and I apologize if I was rude, but you don't seem to understand that this isn't a negotiable option.*



*
Definately not rude, just crystal clear. I wasn't getting the hint from Morrus (sorry M), but this clears up things nicely. But i would like to ask you to make this a bit clearer on the FAQ, so the next time you won't have this discussion (can't very well expect people to use the search function, now can you ;-)



			Oh, and Psionicist? I don't think you understand the amount of bandwidth we use. A home cable connection wouldn't be appropriate.
		
Click to expand...


*As i was asking in an earlier post, i still haven't seen any numbers relating to the amonth of bandwith used and how much traffic is generated. The question i ask is that it's financially a lot easier for someone to host Enworld than it is to donate a large sum of money. The costs of hosting Enworld could be deducted as a business expense for people whon have their own company. I couldn't do that yet (if ever), but it would be very usefull to know how much traffic is generated (100 Gig/month 200?).

Sorry guys for bothering you, but hey i think it would have improved the community, can't blame a guy for trying ;-)


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## Piratecat (Jul 11, 2002)

Believe me, it's appreciated. Ideas like that are great; even if it's something we can't or won't do, it reminds us what's possible.  And you're right about hosting, of course. I don't know the numbers, but we use quite a bit of bandwidth, and I know we hunted for someone to host us when we recently went through the server crunch.


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## Psionicist (Jul 11, 2002)

Actually somewhere around 100mbits is more than appropriate, as long as you have unlimted bandwidth. The bandwidth is not the speed of the connection, but the ammount of data transfered over a specific period, say over a month. The problem with the old server was a limited bandwidth, that is the server transfered more than Morrus payed for so the host shut down all access... you know the story. 

Edit: Remember than CIHost only provide servers with 100mbits network cards, and they have lots of servers (many of them sharing connection).


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## Blacksad (Jul 11, 2002)

By the way, would it be possible to make a deal with RPGnow (the same company that have a deal with ENworld, right? and they need Morrus more than Morrus need them, right?) so that one can pay the 5€ to become an epic level member without using paypal?


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## omokage (Jul 11, 2002)

what's wrong with paypal?


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## Blacksad (Jul 11, 2002)

omokage said:
			
		

> *what's wrong with paypal? *




their verification system didn't recognised my card, though they factured the 1$ to get on paypal, they later gave back the money, but my card is still not accepted by their system (weird, isn't it?)

you can add that they advise to not call your bank for anything related to paypal or you'll get banned from their service (even more weird)

you'll then understand that I'm not going to use their services anytime soon 

edit: the advice to not call the bank is not here anymore, IIRC it was because too many people called their bank to get their verification number, and it probably made some banks angry (imagine a big angry $ )


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## Morrus (Jul 11, 2002)

Psionicist said:
			
		

> * The problem with the old server was a limited bandwidth, that is the server transfered more than Morrus payed for so the host shut down all access... you know the story.  *




You are entirely misinformed, Psionicist.  The problem with the old server was just processing power/memory etc.


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## Psionicist (Jul 11, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You are entirely misinformed, Psionicist.  The problem with the old server was just processing power/memory etc. *




I mean the *OLD* server. The really old one that shut down your FTP access. The one Liquide configured for you.


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## Morrus (Jul 12, 2002)

Oh, the _old_ old server?


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## Mistwell (Jul 14, 2002)

Um, I am a community supporter, and I cannot use the search function. Anyone else have this problem?


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## Psionicist (Jul 14, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *
> 
> So, my friend, are donations.   *




That is untrue. Donations have nothing to do with free message board systems, as it clearly states under the "register" tab: "Registration on this forum is free!". However, it is apperantly not free too use the board, more than some parts of it.


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## Morrus (Jul 14, 2002)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *Um, I am a community supporter, and I cannot use the search function. Anyone else have this problem? *




I'll check for you.


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## chatdemon (Jul 17, 2002)

The irony here is that less than a year ago, I suggested, as part of a flamewar admittedly, but anyway, I suggested that people who donate to the server should get some sort of special privileges, and I was told I was insane. Times change I guess.


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## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2002)

Yeah, still can't use the search function, and still a community supporter / donator.  Any luck with that checking Morrus?


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