# Clarification on what is considered "news."



## philreed (Feb 5, 2007)

I would appreciate an official declaration from EnWorld on what is "news."


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## Morrus (Feb 5, 2007)

"What I consider interesting".

Sorry, I'm not going to bind myself to any rules or a policy, and I reserve final judgement on what makes the news page and what doesn't.  That means 4E rumours will - much to many peoples' chagrin.


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## Nifft (Feb 5, 2007)

Perhaps some examples of borderline cases would help?

 -- N, impartial spectator


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## Morrus (Feb 5, 2007)

Help who?  I'm not even sure what the angle of the question is.  I can't think of any particular examples off the top of my head, although from the sounds of it Phil has something in mind.  I think he'd need to be more specific; the question's just too vague for me to answer.


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## philreed (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm just confused. I had thought that Ronin Arts leaving RPGNow would be news. I mean, with approximately 5% of the PDFs at the site, and ranked #2 for all-time sales, Ronin Arts has been an important part of the PDF industry. I doubt few would argue this point.

Any top 20 company leaving RPGNow is at least as much news as the announcement of a new $1 product is.

I'm just trying to get a better handle on what is and isn't news to the community.


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## Morrus (Feb 5, 2007)

philreed said:
			
		

> I'm just confused. I had thought that Ronin Arts leaving RPGNow would be news. I mean, with approximately 5% of the PDFs at the site, and ranked #2 for all-time sales, Ronin Arts has been an important part of the PDF industry. I doubt few would argue this point.
> 
> Any top 20 company leaving RPGNow is at least as much news as the announcement of a new $1 product is.
> 
> I'm just trying to get a better handle on what is and isn't news to the community.




We just don't cover retailers unless it's something *really* exciting.  We don't even do it for WotC who are EN World's "biggest news" source.  The focus is on the products; if someone decides they want to buy, say MMII, it'll take them 3 seconds to find out where to buy it.  On a lesser scale, same thing with PDF publishers.   

There's a million online retailers out there, and just as many brick & mortar retailers.  It's not a subject I want to start getting involved in.


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## philreed (Feb 5, 2007)

Morrus said:
			
		

> We just don't cover retailers unless it's something *really* exciting.  We don't even do it for WotC who are EN World's "biggest news" source.  The focus is on the products; if someone decides they want to buy, say MMII, it'll take them 3 seconds to find out where to buy it.  On a lesser scale, same thing with PDF publishers.
> 
> There's a million online retailers out there, and just as many brick & mortar retailers.  It's not a subject I want to start getting involved in.




I'll keep this in mind.


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## Morrus (Feb 5, 2007)

On that note... it is, actually, on the news page.


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## Fifth Element (Feb 5, 2007)

Morrus said:
			
		

> There's a million online retailers out there, and just as many brick & mortar retailers.  It's not a subject I want to start getting involved in.




With that in mind, could you comment on the requirement that posts about new products point to the RPGNow affiliate on ENWorld (if they are available there)? If you don't want to get involved with retailers, why is this a requirement?


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## Morrus (Feb 5, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> With that in mind, could you comment on the requirement that posts about new products point to the RPGNow affiliate on ENWorld (if they are available there)? If you don't want to get involved with retailers, why is this a requirement?




I'm confused.  Do you imagine my response will be different from earlier today when you asked me this same question?


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## Fester (Feb 6, 2007)

With all due respect, Phil, Ronin Arts just aren't that newsworthy.  You might be a big fish in the PDF pond - but that really is a very small pond.  So you left RPGNow.  Big deal.  I'll get over it.  It's not something that many people could care less about one way or another.  It's not like you've gone out of business or anything.  You've just moved house.

I like Ronin Arts.  I've bought your products.  I'd like to know what you're releasing now and in the future.  But that's it.  The rest is your business.


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## Fifth Element (Feb 6, 2007)

Morrus said:
			
		

> I'm confused.  Do you imagine my response will be different from earlier today when you asked me this same question?




Well, that was a different forum and a rather different question.

The question is: if retailers do not matter to you (are not newsworthy, as you say), why do you require that publishers link to your RPGNow mirror in their posts? If it's only about the product, why does it matter where they link to?


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## Fifth Element (Feb 6, 2007)

Fester said:
			
		

> With all due respect, Phil, Ronin Arts just aren't that newsworthy.  You might be a big fish in the PDF pond - but that really is a very small pond.  So you left RPGNow.  Big deal.  I'll get over it.  It's not something that many people could care less about one way or another.  It's not like you've gone out of business or anything.  You've just moved house.
> 
> I like Ronin Arts.  I've bought your products.  I'd like to know what you're releasing now and in the future.  But that's it.  The rest is your business.




Given that Ronin Arts products are no longer availabe at RPGNow, I'd say it's rather important for Phil to accounce to the market from where his products will be available in the future.

It's not that he thinks people care about it one way or the other, but he wants prospective customers to know where to get his stuff. It's that simple.


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## Morrus (Feb 6, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> Well, that was a different forum and a rather different question.
> 
> The question is: if retailers do not matter to you (are not newsworthy, as you say), why do you require that publishers link to your RPGNow mirror in their posts? If it's only about the product, why does it matter where they link to?




Still confused.  I don't post the threads in the Publisher's forum.  Publishers do.  I (vicariously, through the newshounds) decide what goes on the news page.  

What gets posted in the Publishers forum does not get filtered by any criteria of newsworthiness.  

Or, in short: news page =  newsworthiness.  Publishers forum != news page != newsworthiness.

You seem very excited about this subject.  Do you feel you're not getting your money's worth or something?


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## Fifth Element (Feb 6, 2007)

Morrus said:
			
		

> "What I consider interesting".
> 
> Sorry, I'm not going to bind myself to any rules or a policy, and I reserve final judgement on what makes the news page and what doesn't.






			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> Still confused. I don't post the threads in the Publisher's forum. Publishers do. I (vicariously, through the newshounds) decide what goes on the news page.
> 
> What gets posted in the Publishers forum does not get filtered by any criteria of newsworthiness.
> 
> Or, in short: news page = newsworthiness. Publishers forum != news page != newsworthiness.




These two posts do not seem to mesh very well. And you seem to be avoiding the question.

The question is this: If, as you say, retailers are not important to the site (publishers are), why do you have the requirement that publishers link to a specific retailer in their posts (assuming the product is available there)? You haven't answered that question.

I'm not "very excited". You just seem to be dodging the question, that's all.


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## mythusmage (Feb 6, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> These two posts do not seem to mesh very well. And you seem to be avoiding the question.
> 
> The question is this: If, as you say, retailers are not important to the site (publishers are), why do you have the requirement that publishers link to a specific retailer in their posts (assuming the product is available there)? You haven't answered that question.
> 
> I'm not "very excited". You just seem to be dodging the question, that's all.




Is he dodging the question, or are you just not getting the answer you want?


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## Fester (Feb 6, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> Given that Ronin Arts products are no longer availabe at RPGNow, I'd say it's rather important for Phil to accounce to the market from where his products will be available in the future.




And therein lies the point.  As you say _it's rather important for Phil_, not the rest of us.  Those of us who have followed Ronin Arts know where to go and find them.  For those that don't know Ronin Arts, then that's for Phil to enlighten them.  EN World has no responsibility to Phil, Ronin Arts or any other publisher or organization.


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## Fester (Feb 6, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> These two posts do not seem to mesh very well. And you seem to be avoiding the question.




Morrus doesn't owe you an answer.  He dictates the terms of the site and we may not always agree, but that doesn't change that fact.  Badgering him here and elsewhere for an answer he is so obviously not going to give you is both rude and futile.


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## Morrus (Feb 6, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> These two posts do not seem to mesh very well. And you seem to be avoiding the question.
> 
> The question is this: If, as you say, retailers are not important to the site (publishers are), why do you have the requirement that publishers link to a specific retailer in their posts (assuming the product is available there)? You haven't answered that question.
> 
> I'm not "very excited". You just seem to be dodging the question, that's all.




I'm not "avoiding the question".  I am, now for the third time, _refusing _ to answer the question for reasons explained elsewhere.  Drop it now, please.

You're welcome to assume any reason you like, as long as your follow the conditions under which you're permitted to post free ads here at EN World.  It's that simple.

Even if I *could* answer you - I don't know you, and would certainly not discuss my private arrangements with you*, let alone in public.  I consider this issue closed.


*PS, would you email me a copy of your bank statement, please?  Or, better yet, post it here for everyone to see!


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## Morrus (Feb 6, 2007)

Fester said:
			
		

> And therein lies the point.  As you say _it's rather important for Phil_, not the rest of us.  Those of us who have followed Ronin Arts know where to go and find them.  For those that don't know Ronin Arts, then that's for Phil to enlighten them.  EN World has no responsibility to Phil, Ronin Arts or any other publisher or organization.




Pretty much.  Much as I like Phil and other publishers, I do feel I need to occasionally mention that EN World's purpose isn't to generate sales for them.  That's a beneficial side-effect at best.


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## Fifth Element (Feb 6, 2007)

Morrus said:
			
		

> I'm not "avoiding the question".  I am, now for the third time, _refusing _ to answer the question for reasons explained elsewhere.  Drop it now, please.
> 
> You're welcome to assume any reason you like, as long as your follow the conditions under which you're permitted to post free ads here at EN World.  It's that simple.
> 
> Even if I *could* answer you - I don't know you, and would certainly not discuss my private arrangements with you*, let alone in public.  I consider this issue closed.




Thank you. If you refuse to answer, that's fine, but previous posts did not indicate that you refused to answer; they indicated you were confused by the question. I was trying to be as clear as I could, since you kept responding "I'm confused" rather than "I choose not to answer that".


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## Fifth Element (Feb 6, 2007)

Fester said:
			
		

> And therein lies the point.  As you say _it's rather important for Phil_, not the rest of us.  Those of us who have followed Ronin Arts know where to go and find them.  For those that don't know Ronin Arts, then that's for Phil to enlighten them.  EN World has no responsibility to Phil, Ronin Arts or any other publisher or organization.




And one way in which Phil enlightens people is through this site, which is standard practice for many d20 publishers. He obviousky has an interest in any posts related to Ronin Arts getting maximum exposure, and I don't see how you can fault him for that.


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## Morrus (Feb 6, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> Thank you. If you refuse to answer, that's fine, but previous posts did not indicate that you refused to answer; they indicated you were confused by the question. I was trying to be as clear as I could, since you kept responding "I'm confused" rather than "I choose not to answer that".




I'm sorry.  It was sarcasm; I wasn't confused.  I should have been more blunt from the outset - thats my usual mistake; I generally hope people will take the gentle hint and drop it before I have to be rude.  I'd already refused to answer the question elsewhere (and, for all your protestations, I can't see how it isn't asking for the same information refused politely elsewhere).


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## Fifth Element (Feb 6, 2007)

Morrus said:
			
		

> I'm sorry.  It was sarcasm; I wasn't confused.  I should have been more blunt from the outset - thats my usual mistake; I generally hope people will take the gentle hint and drop it before I have to be rude.  I'd already refused to answer the question elsewhere (and, for all your protestations, I can't see how it isn't asking for the same information refused politely elsewhere).




I can see (now) how you could consider it the "same information", but I had no way of knowing that. In my mind, I was approaching the same general topic from two very different angles, and I had no way of knowing, until you told me, that the answer would be the same.

Thanks for the sarcasm, by the way. It was much appreciated. It certainly helped move the discussion along.

That, too, is sarcasm. Or is it sardonicism? I can never remember.


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## Morrus (Feb 6, 2007)

Fifth Element said:
			
		

> Thanks for the sarcasm, by the way. It was much appreciated. It certainly helped move the discussion along.




Like I said - sorry.  What with Rasyr banging on about Everything That's Wrong With The ENnies, you pushing me for information I'm not able or prepared to give out, Phil being... Phil, people in that other (private) location demanding I explain things to them which I have no intention of explaining, the last 24 hours I've felt _very_ crotchety. 

On the good side, I realised again how cool people were while I was thinking about everything folks volunteerd to do for EN World and the ENnies at Gen Con the last few years, and how they're already starting to volunteer again this year.  An amazing community. So it's not all bad!


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## Fifth Element (Feb 6, 2007)

Morrus said:
			
		

> Like I said - sorry.  What with Rasyr banging on about Everything That's Wrong With The ENnies, you pushing me for information I'm not able or prepared to give out, Phil being... Phil, people in that other (private) location demanding I explain things to them which I have no intention of explaining, the last 24 hours I've felt _very_ crotchety.
> 
> On the good side, I realised again how cool people were while I was thinking about everything folks volunteerd to do for EN World and the ENnies at Gen Con the last few years, and how they're already starting to volunteer again this year.  An amazing community. So it's not all bad!




Well, if it makes you feel any better I think the ENnies are great!


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