# AAAARRGGGHHH!!! (Or "Enough with the trilogies already!!!")



## Mouseferatu (Oct 3, 2004)

Stop it, _stop it_, _STOP IT!!!_

Could someone _please_ assemble all the heads of publishing for the various companies, lock them in a room with a nest of really angry hornets, and tell them they can only come out when they acknowledge that _not every fantasy story has to be a multi-book epic!!!_ Sometimes I really, _really_ want to buy a new book--_one_ new book--read it and be _done_.

So, please, help me out. Tell me what good fantasy novels you've read that are complete, standalone, single novels. Not "the first of a series." Not even "Oh, it's part of a series but it stands alone enough that you don't have to read the whole thing." One book. Alone. By itself. _One_.

Thanks.


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## Jamdin (Oct 3, 2004)

I hate multiple-books series and long-running series since the local store either never stocks the first book of the series or they never stock the rest of the series. I passed on several of the book series when they first came out because I could never find the first book in the series. I usually wait until they are packaged together and offered from the Science Fiction Book Club or wait to find them at the local thrift stores.


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## dreaded_beast (Oct 3, 2004)

I could be off base here, but I think some stories were written to be just one book, but due to popularity, they decided to make a sequel, or series.


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 3, 2004)

dreaded_beast said:
			
		

> I could be off base here, but I think some stories were written to be just one book, but due to popularity, they decided to make a sequel, or series.




I'm sure that's true, in some cases. Still doesn't help me find standalone books, though.

Anyone? Any suggestions at all?


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## takyris (Oct 3, 2004)

Vote with your dollar, Mouse.  Call me a big stinking hack of a writer -- I try to write stuff that stands alone reasonably well, but if somebody says, "We'll buy it, and we want this to be a series," my reply is a firm "Gotcha.  I'll have Book Two on your desk in six months."  It sells.  Just like mystery readers like for their favorite detective character to come back in subsequent books and romance readers have a formulaic plot that they expect and want when they pick up a romance novel.

Fantasy readers like trilogies.  They like to get invested.  That's just the way it goes.  Your second paragraph sort of undercuts your first one -- if there were a ton of great standalone fantasy books out there, they'd certainly be published.  No publisher is going to look at a great standalone book and say "No, it's not part of a trilogy."  Anyone who believes that to be the case is, to put it mildly, not tapped into the realities of the publishing world.

But, since you did ask, I enjoyed "American Gods" a great deal, and I believe that Jo Walton's "King's ____" was originally supposed to be a single book, but was broken into two books because of its length.  In this case, you could modify your point to "Why don't fantasy writers write things shorter?", which is a different question, but a perfectly valid one.  Again, the likely answer is, "Because, for better or for worse, the average reader likes big fat fantasies, and those are what sell."


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## RogueRonin (Oct 3, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> So, please, help me out. Tell me what good fantasy novels you've read that are complete, standalone, single novels. Not "the first of a series." Not even "Oh, it's part of a series but it stands alone enough that you don't have to read the whole thing." One book. Alone. By itself. _One_.
> 
> Thanks.




Beowulf.
It's not a novel, but who cares. It's only one, and it's great.


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## takyris (Oct 3, 2004)

"Finder" -- could be part of a series, but I never found any others in it.

And to ask for further clarification, we should really differentiate between:

1) Written as one book, but split up because of length -- Some Zelazny fantasy stuff, as well as Jo Walton's and many others'...
2) Written as a standalone book but spawned sequels because it sold extremely well and there was public demand for a sequel -- Modessit's Recluse Series, or Kushner's Swordspoint, as well as many others...
3) Intended as a trilogy right off that bat...


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## CrusaderX (Oct 3, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Anyone? Any suggestions at all?




Poul Anderson's _Three Hearts and Three Lions_


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 3, 2004)

takyris said:
			
		

> Vote with your dollar, Mouse.  Call me a big stinking hack of a writer -- I try to write stuff that stands alone reasonably well, but if somebody says, "We'll buy it, and we want this to be a series," my reply is a firm "Gotcha.  I'll have Book Two on your desk in six months."  It sells.  Just like mystery readers like for their favorite detective character to come back in subsequent books and romance readers have a formulaic plot that they expect and want when they pick up a romance novel.
> 
> Fantasy readers like trilogies.  They like to get invested.  That's just the way it goes.  Your second paragraph sort of undercuts your first one -- if there were a ton of great standalone fantasy books out there, they'd certainly be published.  No publisher is going to look at a great standalone book and say "No, it's not part of a trilogy."  Anyone who believes that to be the case is, to put it mildly, not tapped into the realities of the publishing world.
> 
> But, since you did ask, I enjoyed "American Gods" a great deal, and I believe that Jo Walton's "King's ____" was originally supposed to be a single book, but was broken into two books because of its length.  In this case, you could modify your point to "Why don't fantasy writers write things shorter?", which is a different question, but a perfectly valid one.  Again, the likely answer is, "Because, for better or for worse, the average reader likes big fat fantasies, and those are what sell."




Believe me, I know the realities of publishing. But I also know that I'm _far_ from the only person who sometimes wants a single book. In fact, I can't think of a single fantasy reader I know who _doesn't_ sometimes want standalone stuff. (Yes, that's anecdotal evidence at best. But I find it unlikely that _everyone I know_ is somehow an aberration.)

I've written both stand-alone novels and novels that were meant to be part of a series, so it's not as though I don't understand the appeal of both. But that's just it--there's an appeal to _both_. And my standalones? Sure, if a publisher said "I'll buy this, but only if you write a sequel," I'd do it. But honestly, I strongly prefer not to. The standalones I've written were written that way for a reason.

I'm not claiming that publishers shouldn't publish books in a series. Just that they shouldn't publish _only_ books in a series.

It's also a Catch-22 for writers trying to break into the field, since most companies/agents tell you "Don't try to sell a series at first. Start with a single novel."


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## s/LaSH (Oct 3, 2004)

'Monolith', by some guy whose name my googlefu does not reveal. It's the story of one man, who survives against all odds in a battle with the oppressive church of the land, and an ancient race that holds the secret of that religion. Quite cool, and if there's a sequel I don't know how it was managed. It's not a book that needs a sequel.

'Perdido Street Station' and 'The Scar', by China Mieville. They're set in the same world, they share a very tenuous link, but the link is not necessary to enjoy the books. It might be interesting to read The Scar first, actually, as it doesn't really give anything away, and there's a nostalgia element that readers of PSS might scoff at. Haven't read 'The Iron Council' yet, so I don't know if it feeds off the plots in the 'first' two.

'The Redemption Of Athelas', by David and Leigh Eddings. Not the fourteenth book about Belgarion, for a change. Quite definitely a stand-alone, and as I read Eddings for the characterisation, it entertained me valiantly.

Terry Pratchett... some of his work, at least. Probably best to steer clear without an expert navigator.

'The Hunting Of The Snark', Lewis Carroll. Very short, but very full of meaning, imaginary or otherwise, and it's hard to find something more densely imaginative. I recommend an annotated version with the original illustrations. Plus there's a musical on CD, which is cool.

'Gulliver's Travels'. An Important Book, even today.

'The Hobbit'. The foundation of modern fantasy, even moreso than LotR.


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## ShadowX (Oct 3, 2004)

This is one thing I like about my forays into science fiction, much less in the way of shelf-breakers and more novellas and stand-alone novels.  I don't have time to read these absolutely huge series and, frankly, I usually get bored with them.  I absolutely adore Guy Gavriel Kay for he proves that fantasy can be one book and still be excellent.


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## drothgery (Oct 3, 2004)

ShadowX said:
			
		

> This is one thing I like about my forays into science fiction, much less in the way of shelf-breakers and more novellas and stand-alone novels. I don't have time to read these absolutely huge series and, frankly, I usually get bored with them. I absolutely adore Guy Gavriel Kay for he proves that fantasy can be one book and still be excellent.



But his best work is a duology (the _Sarantine Mosaic_ books).

I'm trying to stay away from any more series where the last book is more than six months away (excepting loosely connected works like Pratchett's Discworld books or Brust's Vlad Taltos books, where there are multiple novels involving the same characters in the same world, but there's no grand over-arching plot).

Designed-for trilogies don't bother me too much; they usually are actually completed in three books, and except in rare circumstances, they don't take too long for the writer to finish (because they're usually not working on anything else, and few writers need more than two years to complete a book unless life outside of writing gives them a lot of trouble). It's when the target length is four or more that four turns to six or seven or eleven. So with a trilogy, I can be patient and buy it in paperback.


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## Mark (Oct 3, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Catch-22




_A stand alone novel that leaves you wanting more..._


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## Particle_Man (Oct 3, 2004)

A good new book: "The Curse of Chalion" by Lois McMaster Bujold.  While there now has been a second book set in the same world with different characters, I would say the books are not intended to be a series, and I fully expected the first book to be the only book set in that world.  (The second book was good, but is certainly not necessary).


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## Ibram (Oct 3, 2004)

"The Savage Tales of Soloman Kane" by REH contains every Soloman Kane story ever written, so no sequels there.

"The Burning Shore" is another stand alone novel (though a followup novel is planed using the same characters).


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## GeorgeFields (Oct 3, 2004)

The only stand alone novel I can even recall reading was "Nightwatch" by Rose Estes. It's part of the old Greyhawk series, but it isn't tied to any of them.


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## Dyir (Oct 3, 2004)

I was impressed with "The War of the Flowers" by Tad Williams.  Especially considering that his "Otherland" series was four books long, and that "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" should have been four books long.  But "War of the Flowers" is a complete work all by itself, and I really enjoyed it.


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## RobJN (Oct 3, 2004)

I would suggest some of Dennis McKiernan's Mithgar novels -- yes, they're mostly set in the same world, but in such a way as to jump around in different eras. I really enjoyed much of his later Mithgar works, much more so than the first trilogy (Iron Tower) and duology (Silver Call) (both of which have been collected into single volumes now).

Check out: "Dragonstone," "Voyage of the Fox Rider," "Dragondoom," and "Eye of the Hunter."

If nothing else, you might get some great new villain ideas like I did...  

Good reading,

Rob


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## Dimwhit (Oct 3, 2004)

I tend to prefer trilogies. However, I also prefer to know how many books will be in a series before I start reading the first. Nothing more annoying than getting a cliffhanger you weren't expecting. I am shamefully to blame for doing this, however. I published a novel (I'm not the author) that had a planned sequel, but we didn't tell people. Oops.


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## Aust Diamondew (Oct 3, 2004)

Most of Terry Pratchette's Discworld novels take place on the same world but many are stand alone books that have characters who may or may not appear in another book or if they do they don't necessarily have much if anything to do with the original book the character was in (such as Death, he appear in every book but not necessarily as major character but generally just becuase somebody died.)


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## Richards (Oct 3, 2004)

_Jack of Shadows_, by Roger Zelazny.

_Coraline_, by Neil Gaiman.

_Neverwhere_, by Neil Gaiman.

_Eyes of the Dragon_, by Stephen King.

Johnathan


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## Maerdwyn (Oct 3, 2004)

I'll second Neverwhere, and add American Gods.


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## WayneLigon (Oct 4, 2004)

A random selection of totally stand-alone books on my shelves

Nightfall by Mickey Zucker Reichert
Wheel of the Infinite by Martha Wells
The Gypsy by Steven Brust
The Last Coin by James Blaylock
War of the Flowers by Tad Williams
City of Bones by Martha Wells
Jumper, Wildland and Helm by Steven Gould
Wolf Moon by Charles de Lint


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 4, 2004)

The Hobbit.

You can ignore that one-book sequel that they divided in three.


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## cignus_pfaccari (Oct 4, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> I'll second Neverwhere, and add American Gods.




I'll third those.

Also, Tailchaser's Song, by Tad Williams.  Anything by Tim Powers (Declare, Earthquake Weather, etc.).

David Gemmell has a few good standalones, like Echoes of the Great Song and Dark Moon.

Brad


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## takyris (Oct 4, 2004)

Actually, I added American Gods right off the bat. 

But again, Mouse, what are the criteria here?  Did _The Magic of Recluse_ go from being a good read to a bad one when Modessit decided to do sequels?

Where I'd second you valiantly is in the idea that a writer starts out saying "This is a trilogy", and then it hits nine or ten books without actually finishing the story.  This is different even from the "This is a trilogy, and then it's done, and then people want me to write more, so I come up with a new enemy and write a new trilogy", like Eddings did with The Belgariad/Mallorean and with... the ones with Sparhawk, whatever they were.

I guess I differ in that I'm fine reading series, as long as the series is either a) built in a way that it's obviously supposed to be open-ended, like Pratchett, b) focused on a goal that it accomplishes in the number of books the author said it would take, or c) the kind of series that I can stop reading any time.  I lump Pratchett into (a), Eddings into (b), and Modessit into (c).  Martin is not on my happy list, since he can't seem to get his book finished, and he's expanding the number of books just like Jordan did.  (I know, trying not to hijack topics here... it seems like every few months there's a flamewar when somebody suggests that cranking out a novel in five years should not be a problem.)

I enjoyed *Lion's Blood*, although it's alternate history, not fantasy, and it now has a sequel on the way.  I still consider it stand-alone, though, since it was originally intended to be so, and works as such (uh, I think).

For fantasy in the not-fantasy section, try anything by Christopher Moore, but particularly *Coyote Blue* and *Bloodsucking Fiends*, both of which are stand-alone novels I enjoyed hugely.

And I'll reiterate Emma Bull's *Finder*, which I mentioned before sans author.  You might be able to find it in a used bookstore -- a fantasy mystery pulp noir... thing.  It worked for me a lot.


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 4, 2004)

> I guess I differ in that I'm fine reading series, as long as the series is either a) built in a way that it's obviously supposed to be open-ended, like Pratchett, b) focused on a goal that it accomplishes in the number of books the author said it would take, or c) the kind of series that I can stop reading any time. I lump Pratchett into (a), Eddings into (b), and Modessit into (c). Martin is not on my happy list, since he can't seem to get his book finished, and he's expanding the number of books just like Jordan did. (I know, trying not to hijack topics here... it seems like every few months there's a flamewar when somebody suggests that cranking out a novel in five years should not be a problem.)




I guess I should clarify, since I seem to have given the wrong impression...

I like series too. Most of my favorite fantasy comes in series form.

But I don't _just_ want series. I _also_ want standalone books, and that's particularly true today when you can't find anyone actually willing to _finish the damn story!!_ (Robert Jordan should have been shot about 3 books back. )

I've actually reached the point where I simply won't even begin a series until the last book is on shelves. (Well, that's assuming an ongoing story. A series of standalone books, like Brust's Taltos novels or Discworld, doesn't count.)

But okay, let's loosen the criteria a bit. I'm okay with people recommending books that have since had sequels, so long as the original book stands alone without said sequel.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 4, 2004)

I'll throw in another recommendation for _War of the Flowers_.  Just finished reading it about a month or so ago.  At first I didn't think I was going to like it much at all based on the description on the jacket, but once I started reading it I just couldn't put it down.


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## Starman (Oct 4, 2004)

s/LaSH said:
			
		

> 'The Redemption Of Athelas', by David and Leigh Eddings. Not the fourteenth book about Belgarion, for a change. Quite definitely a stand-alone, and as I read Eddings for the characterisation, it entertained me valiantly.




Really? You're the first person I recall who read that and enjoyed it. I found Edding's other stuff fairly entertaining, but I rank this book as one of the worst fantasy books I have read.

As for good stand-alone fantasy books, try Tanith Lee's _Night's Master_. Sadly, that's the only good stand-alone fantasy novel I can think of off the top of my head that hasn't all ready been mentioned. 

Starman


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 4, 2004)

Starman said:
			
		

> Really? You're the first person I recall who read that and enjoyed it. I found Edding's other stuff fairly entertaining, but I rank this book as one of the worst fantasy books I have read.




While I wouldn't say it's one of the worst fantasy books I've read, I agree that it wasn't _nearly_ up to his work on his actual series. I'm interested in seeing what his new one's like--but I still won't pick it up until it's complete.


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Oct 4, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> So, please, help me out. Tell me what good fantasy novels you've read that are complete, standalone, single novels. Not "the first of a series." Not even "Oh, it's part of a series but it stands alone enough that you don't have to read the whole thing." One book. Alone. By itself. _One_.
> 
> Thanks.




One of my favorite books by Glen Cook, is the _Tower of Fear_. It fits all the requirements you are looking for. It has very much the same tone as his Black Company books. Something I enjoyed about the book is that when the main story ends, it has two epilogues. The first wraps up loose ends in the short term. The second epilogue tells what happens to characters in the long term out to more than 50 years after the main story is over.


Regards,
Eric Anondson


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## replicant2 (Oct 4, 2004)

*Good stand-alone fantasy novels*

The Broken Sword -- Poul Anderson
Eaters of the Dead -- Michael Crichton
Gates of Fire -- Steven Pressfield (technically historic fiction)
The Worm Ouroboros -- ER Eddison

I'd recommend any of these very highly.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Oct 4, 2004)

A few off the top of my head...

_A Scattering of Jades_-Alexander C. Irvine
_The Anubis Gates_-Tim Powers
_Latro In The Mist_-Gene Wolfe (originally 2 books, now combined into one volume)
_Perdido Street Station_-China Mieville


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## Warrior Poet (Oct 4, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Tell me what good fantasy novels you've read that are complete, standalone, single novels. Not "the first of a series." Not even "Oh, it's part of a series but it stands alone enough that you don't have to read the whole thing." One book. Alone. By itself. _One_.




Haven't read through the whole thread yet, so don't know if these have been mentioned, but I respectfully submit:

_City of Bones,_ by Martha Wells.
Archaeologist-thieves living in a dying city at the edge of a dying world, struggling against the rigid caste system that dominates what remains of society and attempting to plumb the mysteries of water out in the desert while confronting mad wizards with powers that may be magical or advanced technology.

It's so good.

_Nightwatch,_ by Sean Stewart.
Two societies struggling with the advent of monsters, magic, and (especially) ghosts confront their societal differences and the eldritch mysteries that threaten (or do they?) them in two different ways:  one with ancient Chinese lore and magic, another with advanced technology (and some magic).  Includes such memorable characters as the ghost of an ill-fated expedition to the snowy Canadian wilderness, a young man with broken (not necessarily bad) luck, and a woman who is the daughter of a hawk goddess and who has a neural implant computer that augments her already impressive powers.  Horrific rituals, strange smoke-infused magic, lost loves divided by distance and culture, and a nice, ambiguous ending that doesn't settle anything, but leaves you satisfied that the story goes on, and that's a good thing, and there's no sequel to mess it up.

It rocks.

Warrior Poet

Ah, I see WayneLigon mentioned the Martha Wells book.  Excellent.


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## mmu1 (Oct 5, 2004)

Hey, some of the good ones already got mentioned... 

I'll re-state the vote for:

_Anubis Gates_ by Tim Powers (as well as _The Drawing of the Dark_ and _Last Call_)

_The War of the Flowers_ by Tad Williams

_The Curse of Challion_ by Lois McMaster Bujold

and add:

_Agyar_ by Steven Brust

... and maybe _The Shadow of the Lion_ (written by three people I don't remember right now) it's certainly not the best book I've ever read, but one of the more interesting mixes of real world history and fanatsy I've read in a while.


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## CCamfield (Oct 5, 2004)

_The Tower of Fear_ and _City of Bones_... both excellent, excellent books.  Let me add to those recommendations 

Plus...

- _One For The Morning Glory_ by John Barnes.
- _Rats and Gargoyles_ by Mary Gentle
- _Bridge of Birds_ by Barry Hughart (he did write two sequels, but they weren't as good, and the first book stands totally on its own)
- _Doc Sidhe_ by Aaron Allston (one sequel, not necessary to read)
- _Nobody's Son_ by Sean Stewart (What happens AFTER you win the princess' hand in marriage?)
- Many books written by Patricia McKillip, such as: _Ombria in Shadow_, _The Tower at Stony Wood_, _In The Forests of Serre_, and _The Book of Atrix Wolfe_.

These last two are technically YA novels I suppose but they're great:
- _The Hero and the Crown_ by Robin McKinley
- _The Cats of Seroster_ by Robert Westall

edit:  The Anubis Gates is great!  So, if you can track it down, is On Stranger Tides, also by Tim Powers:  Caribbean pirates, sorcery, and voudou...


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Oct 5, 2004)

CCamfield said:
			
		

> So, if you can track it down, is On Stranger Tides, also by Tim Powers:  Caribbean pirates, sorcery, and voudou...



 I wish that someone would bring _On Stranger Tides_ back into print. I have a paperback copy, and I have a very hard time lending it out to anyone because it's so hard to find and I don't want mine to fall apart. The few used copies I have seen are going for $10+ for paperbacks.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Oct 5, 2004)

GADS...I agree so much with this.  I don't buy a lot of books, but prefer to use my local library...which ALWAYS skips one or two books in a series.  Always. ALWAYS!!! AAAAAAGGGHHH!!


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## The Black Kestrel (Oct 5, 2004)

CCamfield said:
			
		

> Many books written by Patricia McKillip, such as: _Ombria in Shadow_, _The Tower at Stony Wood_, _In The Forests of Serre_, and _The Book of Atrix Wolfe_.




I'm glad someone mentioned McKillip almost all her books are stand alone and her one trilogy (Riddlemaster of Hed) has been complete for years. I also reccomend  Peter S. Beagle, Martha Wells (you'll want to skip her current two as they're part of an unfinished trilogy   ), Fritz Liebers Ffard and Grey Mouser works, Jack Vances Dying Earth (admittedly 4 novel set in the same world and only loosely related), Tim Powers, Lord Dunsany, Neil Gaiman (Neverwhere, American Gods and Stardust)


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## Hypersmurf (Oct 5, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> _The Curse of Challion_ by Lois McMaster Bujold




I'm not sure you can really call it a standalone, though.



> _Agyar_ by Steven Brust




I've lost my copy 



> ... and maybe _The Shadow of the Lion_ (written by three people I don't remember right now)...




Lackey, Flint, and Freer.

I'm a long-time Lackey fan, and I like pretty much everything of Eric Flint's I've read.  I think the only stuff Dave Freer's done that I've read has been in collaboration with Flint, so far, so I don't have much of a feel for him.

-Hyp.


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## drothgery (Oct 5, 2004)

[_The Curse of Chalion_ by Lois Bujold]



			
				Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> I'm not sure you can really call it a standalone, though.



Well, the first two Chalion books have been very loosely connected, and I think the third is going to be the same way (though since Bujold isn't one of those authors whose work gets rushed from manuscript to printer, we won't see it until the middle of next year even though she's already turned in the book for final editing).


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## mmu1 (Oct 6, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> I'm not sure you can really call it a standalone, though.




It fits his (revised) criteria, though - the story is completely self-contained, even if there was a follow-up.


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## mmu1 (Oct 6, 2004)

drothgery said:
			
		

> [_The Curse of Chalion_ by Lois Bujold]
> 
> Well, the first two Chalion books have been very loosely connected, and I think the third is going to be the same way (though since Bujold isn't one of those authors whose work gets rushed from manuscript to printer, we won't see it until the middle of next year even though she's already turned in the book for final editing).




Gah... How much longer must we wait for another Vorkosigan book? Preferably one involving more of Mark, and some new galactic happenings. _A Civil Campaign_ was one of her best, but _Diplomatic Immunity_ was only about as good as _Ceteganda_, if not worse, and I for one have had enough of all this domestic stuff. Let's have another civil war, or something...


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## Volaran (Oct 6, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> Gah... How much longer must we wait for another Vorkosigan book? Preferably one involving more of Mark, and some new galactic happenings. _A Civil Campaign_ was one of her best, but _Diplomatic Immunity_ was only about as good as _Ceteganda_, if not worse, and I for one have had enough of all this domestic stuff. Let's have another civil war, or something...




I have a friend who is betting the next one is going to be about Ivan.  I could do with another dose of Mark though.  Something on Sergyar might be keen.


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## reanjr (Oct 6, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Stop it, _stop it_, _STOP IT!!!_
> 
> Could someone _please_ assemble all the heads of publishing for the various companies, lock them in a room with a nest of really angry hornets, and tell them they can only come out when they acknowledge that _not every fantasy story has to be a multi-book epic!!!_ Sometimes I really, _really_ want to buy a new book--_one_ new book--read it and be _done_.
> 
> ...




Can you clarify a little bit.  For instance, Murder in Tarsis is part of the Dragonlance series, but is not a part of a trilogy or anything like that.  Is this in a series, as per you?


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## jhallum (Oct 6, 2004)

*But...But...what about?*

Tigana?  You know, by that guy, yeah, that guy,  Guy Gavriel Kay?  One of the best fantasy books of all time, made better by the fact that it is a standalone book, and not stretched out into some series?


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## Hypersmurf (Oct 6, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> _A Civil Campaign_ was one of her best...




"One of"?

I used to regularly reread all the Vorkosigan books because I enjoyed them.

Now I reread all the Vorkosigan books as an excuse to get to _A Civil Campaign_ again.

-Hyp.


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## mmu1 (Oct 6, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> "One of"?
> 
> I used to regularly reread all the Vorkosigan books because I enjoyed them.
> 
> ...




I like _Mirror Dance_ best - _A Civil Campaign_ is great, but it's sometimes a toss up for me who I enjoy reading about more, Miles or Mark, and I miss the mercenaries... Yeah, it's great that she moved on, and chose to develop the characters, but I haven't accepted The Little Admiral is dead for good, no matter what happens. 

_A Civil Campaign_ does make me laugh like no other book in the series, though...


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## Particle_Man (Oct 6, 2004)

Re: Bujold -- ya never know.  She might do an "earlier" story set when Miles is still Admiral Naismith (although it might also be set in that time, but while Miles is with his parents).  Enough hints are dropped that there is room for at least one novel there (I bet Miles is instrumental in discovering the fourth planet of the Barrayaran empire).

On the other hand, present-day Miles left behind some pretty major enemies (anyone else remember the one said to be as smart as he, only she is a psychopath?  And when does that guy (yeah, THAT guy!) which Miles put away get out of jail...a year?  Think either of those two will just let bygones be bygones?)  Miles may have forgotten them, but I be they sure as hell haven't forgotten him.  So he might be in for some old troubles (and the Fleet might get involved somehow).

Er...I guess that was off-topic, describing a series of books in a thread devoted to finding books not in a series.  Sorry.


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## mmu1 (Oct 6, 2004)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> Re: Bujold -- ya never know.  She might do an "earlier" story set when Miles is still Admiral Naismith (although it might also be set in that time, but while Miles is with his parents).  Enough hints are dropped that there is room for at least one novel there (I bet Miles is instrumental in discovering the fourth planet of the Barrayaran empire).




What fourth planet? Barrayar, Komarr, Sergyar (which Shards of Honor takes place on, as I understand it), and...?


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## talinthas (Oct 6, 2004)

Snow Crash by Stephenson, To Reign in Hell by Brust, Good Omens by Pratchett and Gaiman, Calculating God by Sawyer, and of course, American Gods, but you knew that already.

 I'm a sucker for fantasy/sci fi about man's relation with God and stuff =)

 Of course, i'd also like to recommend a book called The Cybergypsies, by Indra Sinha, but it's not really fantasy, so much as a fictionalization of the real world of early BBSes and internet and stuff.  Well, it's hard to explain but worth a read.

 lately, i too have been looking for one shots.


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## Hypersmurf (Oct 6, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> I like _Mirror Dance_ best...




Yeah?

Hmm.  I think I'd put _Memory_, _Brothers in Arms_, and _The Warrior's Apprentice_ on my list ahead of _Mirror Dance_.



> _A Civil Campaign_ does make me laugh like no other book in the series, though...




There was a sadistic genius in the way Baen put the book up on their website up until chapter 9... and then stopped.

By the time the book hit the shelves, I was champing at the bit... 

Illyan gets the best lines, though.

"Don't ever try that with Miles.  Just... don't."

and 

"She shouldn't have to ask twice.  Or... once."




> What fourth planet? Barrayar, Komarr, Sergyar (which Shards of Honor takes place on, as I understand it), and...?




San Martin!

... no, wait...

-Hyp.


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## Particle_Man (Oct 6, 2004)

[takes off his shoes, starts counting]

Oops!!  I meant the discovery of the THIRD planet probably involves Miles in some significant, and as yet not yet fully documented though strongly hinted at, way.

My mistake.  Insert that embarrassed Smilie here.

Edit: here we go!


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## The Gryphon (Oct 6, 2004)

Snare by Katharine Kerr


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## drothgery (Oct 6, 2004)

jhallum said:
			
		

> Tigana? You know, by that guy, yeah, that guy, Guy Gavriel Kay? One of the best fantasy books of all time, made better by the fact that it is a standalone book, and not stretched out into some series?



About my only annoyance with Kay is that so many of his characters don't stop to think "Is there is even the most remote chance that this relationship could turn out well?" before getting involved with someone that's virtually certain to cause them very serious problems, and does.


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## Farganger (Oct 6, 2004)

drothgery said:
			
		

> About my only annoyance with Kay is that so many of his characters don't stop to think "Is there is even the most remote chance that this relationship could turn out well?" before getting involved with someone that's virtually certain to cause them very serious problems, and does.




All-too-common - drives the plot, after all!  

But actually with Kay I am inclined to think his characters are if anything overly, if not improbably, introspective.  They often do in fact stop to think about the consequences of their romantic choices, and other things . . . I haven't read all his novels, but in A Song for Arbonne, which I'm reading and enjoying at the moment, Blaise's constant reflections on his changing attitudes with respect to women and song are at times a bit much given everything going on around him.

I'd definitely concur with adding the stand-alone Kaye titles that I've read to this list: Tigana and The Lions of Al-Rassan.


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## Mr. Kaze (Oct 6, 2004)

"Bridge of Birds" by Barry Hughart is an awesome little fantasy for those wanting to try a Tolkien-less variation on the genre.  Sequels were written (and are now available as a collected tome), but most of the imagination, style and craft got put into the first book which is a complete book in and of itself.


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## Hypersmurf (Oct 6, 2004)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> Oops!!  I meant the discovery of the THIRD planet probably involves Miles in some significant, and as yet not yet fully documented though strongly hinted at, way.




Uh... Sergyar was discovered before Miles was _born_.  Before his parents met, even (though only just).

-Hyp.


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## jmucchiello (Oct 6, 2004)

The Golden Key by Melanie Rawn, Jennifer Roberson, Kate Elliott
- Yes it's got a trilogy of authors but it's a standalone book. It's a pseudo-pre-renaissance-europe-like world where the main character is not the hero. He's a painter, in a world where paintings can morph reality.

The Barbed Coil by J. V. Jones
- A transported from earth to fantasy world story. I include it here because I actually recommend JV's Book of Words Trilogy but that's off topic.


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## Justinian (Oct 6, 2004)

_Heroes Die_, by Matthew Woodring Stover.

A few years later Stover wrote another book about the same protagonist, _Blade of Tyshalle_, but the first book can be read completely by itself.

Both books are in my top five fantasy novels. (Guy Gavriel Kay, with some off-topic books, fills in the other spots.)


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## Rhialto (Oct 6, 2004)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> I'll second Neverwhere, and add American Gods.




Though _American Gods_ is getting a sequel...


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## Particle_Man (Oct 7, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Uh... Sergyar was discovered before Miles was _born_.  Before his parents met, even (though only just).
> 
> -Hyp.




D'oh.  Ok, he doesn't discover it then.  But I bet there will be a book called "Sergyar", set before "Memory", in which Miles will Save the Day, either as a Vorkosigan or as Admiral Naismith, and during which, somehow, he will get that horrible worm parasite (bloat worms?  I can't remember) that he refers to in other books.  Perhaps during this book he will somehow also attend the graduation ceremony of his friend from that mountain village.


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## Hypersmurf (Oct 7, 2004)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> D'oh.  Ok, he doesn't discover it then.  But I bet there will be a book called "Sergyar", set before "Memory", in which Miles will Save the Day, either as a Vorkosigan or as Admiral Naismith...




I expect we will get a book called _Sergyar_, but if I had to guess, I'd say it'll be set after _Diplomatic Immunity_, and it will deal with Aral dying...

-Hyp.


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## drothgery (Oct 7, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> I expect we will get a book called _Sergyar_, but if I had to guess, I'd say it'll be set after _Diplomatic Immunity_, and it will deal with Aral dying...



I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get another Vorkosigan book for quite some time, actually. Post-_Diplomatic Immunity_, it's really hard to see the hyperactive Miles we know and love, as he's just not physically up to the role anymore, and a Vorkosigan book with anyone other than Miles or Cordellia as the lead character is going to be a bit weird. 

Going back in time might work, but there just aren't that many holes in the timeline that are big enough to plug a full novel into anymore. Bujold loves novellas, though, so we might see one or two that fill in the gaps.


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## mmu1 (Oct 7, 2004)

drothgery said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get another Vorkosigan book for quite some time, actually. Post-_Diplomatic Immunity_, it's really hard to see the hyperactive Miles we know and love, as he's just not physically up to the role anymore, and a Vorkosigan book with anyone other than Miles or Cordellia as the lead character is going to be a bit weird.
> 
> Going back in time might work, but there just aren't that many holes in the timeline that are big enough to plug a full novel into anymore. Bujold loves novellas, though, so we might see one or two that fill in the gaps.




Bah. All things considered, he's probably in better physical shape then when his bones broke like chalk, and since when did "physically not up to it" ever stop him before?

I think the next one might end up involving his immediate family - his brand new kids, and, as Hypersmurf suggested, perhaps Aral's death.


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## Beale Knight (Oct 7, 2004)

If I Pay Thee Not in Gold 

by Piers Anthony and Mercedes Lackey 

This may not end up on anyone's top ten favorite fantasy books, but it's a enjoyable read, and it stands alone.


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## drothgery (Oct 7, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> Bah. All things considered, he's probably in better physical shape then when his bones broke like chalk, and since when did "physically not up to it" ever stop him before?



He's not as young and stupid as he was at the start of _Memory_ anymore.


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## Phaedrus (Oct 7, 2004)

Most of David Gemmell's books are stand-alones.  I argue that even the series books can stand alone (you can read Waylander and quit without reading the other books with Waylander in them. Same with Legend and Druss.)

Highly recommend him if you haven't read his work.


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## Hypersmurf (Oct 7, 2004)

Phaedrus said:
			
		

> Most of David Gemmell's books are stand-alones.  I argue that even the series books can stand alone (you can read Waylander and quit without reading the other books with Waylander in them. Same with Legend and Druss.)




You can read one Druss book without immediately reading all the others?

Wow... I've never managed it 

-Hyp.


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## GSHamster (Oct 8, 2004)

Phaedrus said:
			
		

> Most of David Gemmell's books are stand-alones.  I argue that even the series books can stand alone (you can read Waylander and quit without reading the other books with Waylander in them. Same with Legend and Druss.)
> 
> Highly recommend him if you haven't read his work.




I second this.  I actually read _The Swords of Night and Day_ without reading any of his other books. Surprisingly, I think it worked better than if I had read the other books that are referenced. (Mostly because it's set thousands of years after the previous books.)


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## Phaedrus (Oct 8, 2004)

Hypersmurf... call me crazy, but Druss is my least favorite Gemmell character! Waylander and Tenaka Khan come before Druss. And Connavar, and Bane, and Decado, and...

I REALLY like Gemmell's books!


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## Fenris (Oct 8, 2004)

Anything by Elizabeth Boyer. They are out of print and hard to find but well worth it. Most book are set in similar settings, but are completely independant.

And while technically Sci-Fi, I always love to go back down Glory Road by Robert Heinlein as a fantasy novel.


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## diaglo (Jan 14, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> The Hobbit.
> 
> You can ignore that one-book sequel that they divided in six.





fixxed it 4 j00


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## David Howery (Jan 14, 2005)

couple of nitpicks...
the GH novel Nightwatch was Robin Wayne Bailey, not Rose Estes.  Avoid anything written by Estes (bad bad stuff).
The Stephen Gould novel is Wildside, not Wildland... and it's one of my favorites too...


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## Desdichado (Jan 14, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Not even "Oh, it's part of a series but it stands alone enough that you don't have to read the whole thing."



See, I don't mind that too much.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jan 14, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> So, please, help me out...




Ya know, I really think this thread would work best if divided into three parts of equal length but increasingly complexity and drama.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jan 14, 2005)

Sorry about the double post – server errors.


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## jester47 (Jan 15, 2005)

The Hobbit
The Last Unicorn
The Inkeeper's Song
Dune (originally a stand alone)
Ender's Game (originally a stand alone)
Starship Troopers
Neuromancer (the two followups seem forced)
The Neverending Story
Dragonworld

Perdido Street Station
The Scar
American Gods
The Iron Council

There's a lot, you just have to dig.

Aaron.


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## TemplarSaint (Jan 29, 2005)

I think it's easier to come up with stand-alone titles on the Sci-Fi side than the fantasy side, but even on the sci-fi side the pickings are slim.

Tigana, by Guy Gavriel Kay, as already mentioned, is a great fantasy novel.
Grass by Sheri Tepper is a great sci-fi novel.
Armor, by John Steakly is a fun (but certainly not well-written) sci-fi action novel.
Tower of Fear, a fantasy by Glen Cook (also mentioned already)
Michale Stackpole has several stand alone fantasy novels, unrelated to his works in established universes.   Once a Hero is the best of these, and Talion is the only other one I can remember.
Nightfall, classic sci-fi by Isaac Asimov
There is No Darkness, sci-fi by Jack and Joe Haldeman
Buying Time, sci-fi by Joe Haldeman
 I was going to add Forever War, sci-fi, by Joe Haldeman, but I see he actually wrote a sequel 20 or so years after it.  How odd.


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## Blue Sky (Jan 29, 2005)

The Mis-enchanted Sword by Lawrence Wyatt-Evans is one of my favorite books.  It's technically set in a series, but doesn't really reference other books.  

Otherwise, all my other recommendations have been said.


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## Pozatronic (Jan 29, 2005)

A bunch of people already mentioned China Mieville and Guy Gavrial Kay, and I'd like to third (or fourth, or fifth) these motions. I read Mieville's "The Scar" first, and I'm glad I did because I liked it a lot better then "Perdido Street Station". Oh, and "The Iron Council" was pretty damn good too.

"Tigana" is my favorite Kay book also. It was the first one of his I read and I devored all his others soon afterward. His last novel, "The Dying Of The Light" (I think) is my second favorite. Be warned with Kay though, his first books were the Fionavar Tapersty...A TRILOGY!! 

Somebody mentioned Tanith Lee's Night's Master. Yes, it is stand alone, but it's also the first in the Flat Earth Series. The second in the series, Deaths Master, is one of my favorite fantasy books ever. It's mythic and tragic and beautiful. Once the third book hits it becomes more connected however with a total of five books in the series. You could always read Deaths Master as a stand alone, too.

Also, there's Maia by Richard Adams. It's basically a fantasy, as it's setting is a place that never existed, but it has more of an historic feel. Long book...I never actually finished it, but its still book marked...


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## Banshee16 (Jan 29, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Stop it, _stop it_, _STOP IT!!!_
> 
> Could someone _please_ assemble all the heads of publishing for the various companies, lock them in a room with a nest of really angry hornets, and tell them they can only come out when they acknowledge that _not every fantasy story has to be a multi-book epic!!!_ Sometimes I really, _really_ want to buy a new book--_one_ new book--read it and be _done_.
> 
> ...




I enjoyed Faerie Tale, from Raymond Feist.  It's older, though.  Personally, I don't have a problem with trilogies, but everyone has their own opinion.

The book "Iron Throne" by Simon Hawke from the Birthright trilogy was actually very good.  I really enjoyed it.  But it's older as well, so you may only find it on used markets.

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786903570/qid=1106984098/701-8168662-9862722

Two others that you might want to try are "The Temple and the Stone" from Catherine Kurtz...though it has one sequel.  It's a fantasy about the Templars, and the fall of their order.  I thought it was pretty good, though it wasn't high literature.

China Mieville's books, Perdido Street Station, The Scar, and, apparently, the Iron Council, are all really, really good.  It's a series of books that take place in the same world, but are completely different stories.  The characters are not carried over from one book to another.  The events in one book don't seem to reflect or influence the next.

I hope that at least provides a few ideas 

Banshee


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## Thanee (Jan 29, 2005)

There is the Lord of the Rings one-book edition. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Barendd Nobeard (Jan 29, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> But okay, let's loosen the criteria a bit. I'm okay with people recommending books that have since had sequels, so long as the original book stands alone without said sequel.





*A Canticle for Leibowitz*


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## Barendd Nobeard (Jan 29, 2005)

Just thought of another one: *The Land of Laughs* by Jonathan Carroll.


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## Tom Cashel (Jan 30, 2005)

> Somewhere beyond the northern mists lies a land where dreams live and dragons are real.
> This is the tale of the twilight of the dragons, of two nations plunged into war by a tragic misunderstanding, of a shy dreamer's incredible voyage of peace to a long-forgotten land where nightmares are born.
> 
> A magnificient creation, a sweeping epic of high fantasy set in a richly imagined world, vividly brought to life with over eighty pages of stunning illustrations by Joseph Zucker




Dragonworld, by Bryon Preiss and Michael Reaves


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