# Someone has MM3 at RPG.Net



## Rechan (Jun 4, 2010)

Monster Manual 3 - RPGnet Forums


Arcanian (Spell using undead?)
Ape (including smart, sword-using ape)
Apocalypse Spell
Behemoths (Spirehorn, Bone crown and Skinwing)
Beholder
Banderhobb - new critter, very "children's bedtime story", paragon tier
Cambions
Cave Fishers - Levels 4-5 - spawn (minions), anglers (classic cave fishers), spikers (artillery that  shoot silk spikes and an entangling blast) and trained spikers (minion  artillery bred and controlled by hobgoblins).

Catoblepas
Catastrophe Dragons (Blizzard, Earthquake and Volcanic)
Chitines
Cloakers
Craud - crawfishmen, low-heroic tier
Dark Ones
Demons
Derro
Drow and Draegloths
Devils, Temptation (Corruption, Passion, Rage, etc) 
Dread Warrior
Elementals, Traditional (Air, Wind, etc)
Elemental Weirds
Frog
Forsaken
Foulspawn
Gargoyles
Ghasts 
Giants - Fire, Hill and Frost
Girallions
Gnolls & Ghost Hyena
Gremlins
Hags
Howlers (elementals now)
Jackweres
Intellect Devourers and Ustilagators 
Kuo-Toa
Kraken and Astral Kraken (Now linked to the Far Realms)
Lolth - 35 Solo Lurker, Eclavdra (Exarch) and Apropos. 
Meenlocks
Meazles
Mimics 
Minotaur
Nagpa
Nerra
Norkers
Nymphs
Ogres
Ogremoch, Prince of Elemental Earth - 34th level Solo Soldier
Imix, Prince of Elemental Fire - 32th level Solo Controller
Allabar, Opener of the the Way - 30th level Soldier (Planet Sized Far Realms baddy)
Mind Flayers - Inquisitor - 20 Controller, Scourge - 21 Skirmisher, Thoon Hulk - 22 Brute, Elder Brain - Elite 23 Controller

Oblivion Moss (Minions too)
Rotgrubs (That make zombies)
Scarecrows (from the Shadowfell)
Secret of Vecna
Shadows
Slaad
Skulk
PHB3 PC races have writeups
Spawn of Kyuss
Spellweavers
Spider
Star Spawn
Su Monsters
Tanarukk
Tri-Keen
Tulgar - low-epic tier ex-primal spirits turned mercenaries
Umber Hulk
Verbeeg (Feywild Giants)
Xivarts (old school xvarts; gnomes shaped by the Shadowfell)
Yaun-Ti
Yeti



Pseudopsyche said:


> Anyway, I gleaned the above fluff from the appropriate entries. I want  to call out a point I haven't seen mentioned. There is a LOT of story  here. MANY entries begin with a FULL PAGE of text giving lore and  artwork. The encounter groups are gone, replaced by a single paragraph  describing likely allies. The new stat block formats are awesome. I  think WotC nailed it this time. The best part is that they've revisited  some iconic monsters with the improved format: giants, gargoyles,  ghouls, gnolls, minotaurs, ogres.


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## Drammattex (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm beyond happy the op likes the art for the catoblepas and nymphs--to say they're both very special to me would be a massive understatement.

The whole nymph concept evolved like a dream; at one point in that evolution I realized they connected ideally with some photos I'd taken the previous year, and this inspired the concept even moreso. Here are a few of them.


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## Harlekin (Jun 5, 2010)

Is it just me or is RPGnet now the place to go for D&D news?


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 5, 2010)

> Someone has MM3 at RPG.Net



Are they from Europe or Japan? 

Oh well.


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## Rechan (Jun 5, 2010)

Harlekin said:


> Is it just me or is RPGnet now the place to go for D&D news?



It's the place where those from Japan go.  

Although Jack99 or others here sometimes get the New stuff and have a thread dedicated to it. Just haven't recently.


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## Shroomy (Jun 5, 2010)

MM3 is readily available in the US at WotC premier game stores since today is 10 days before the official release date.  I looked at it two hours ago and it looks awesome (I almost bought it right there, but my wife wouldn't like me spending more money if I could get it from; I had to content myself with the new tile set and the tiefling book).


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## Harlekin (Jun 5, 2010)

Rechan said:


> It's the place where those from Japan go.
> 
> Although Jack99 or others here sometimes get the New stuff and have a thread dedicated to it. Just haven't recently.




This time the spoilers there are Americans. I think it has to do with other things.


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## Rechan (Jun 5, 2010)

Shroomy said:


> MM3 is readily available in the US at WotC premier game stores since today is 10 days before the official release date.  I looked at it two hours ago and it looks awesome (I almost bought it right there, but my wife wouldn't like me spending more money if I could get it from; I had to content myself with the new tile set and the tiefling book).



How could you pick the tiefling book and some sort of TILES over the MM3?! 

... Unless you're a player and not a DM.

I want to know if there are any plants. The only way this MM could be better is if there were (included some Yellow Musk Creepers) and any sort of mold/fungal monsters.


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## Pseudopsyche (Jun 5, 2010)

Shroomy said:


> MM3 is readily available in the US at WotC premier game stores since today is 10 days before the official release date.  I looked at it two hours ago and it looks awesome (I almost bought it right there, but my wife wouldn't like me spending more money if I could get it from; I had to content myself with the new tile set and the tiefling book).



Yeah, I picked up my copies of Monster Manual 3 and Deserts of Athas at D&D Encounters on Wednesday.  I thought all stores running Encounters got this stuff early.  They are allowed to sell them early, right?


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## Rechan (Jun 5, 2010)

Pseudopsyche said:


> Yeah, I picked up my copies of Monster Manual 3



QUESTION TIME!

What kind of hags do we get? 

What level are the derro? 

ANY PLANTS HUH HUH HUH?


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## Zaukrie (Jun 5, 2010)

Shoot, I forgot I could go early today! I still want my Peryton....


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## Rydac (Jun 5, 2010)

Rechan said:


> QUESTION TIME!
> 
> What kind of hags do we get?
> 
> ...




No need to go to rpgnet for D&D news there are ENworlders with the book too!

Rechan,
The Hags are Pact Hag (11th level Controller (Leader)
                  Dream Hag (19th level Controller)
                  Mist Hag (27th level Controller (leader)

Derro are Warrior 13th artillery
             Thug 14th minion Brute
             Fanatic 14th skirmisher
             Harvester 15th Lurker
             Ironguard 15th Soldier
             Savant 16th Controller

At a quick glance only spotting one Plant entry....Oblivion Moss though
there are six separate types listed under it (five of the six are humanoid plant)


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Jun 5, 2010)

Lots and lots of fey in the new MM.


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## Rechan (Jun 5, 2010)

Anybody with the Book - the list in the first post, am I missing anything from it? Or is that the complete ToC?

WHAT are the following monsters?
Choldrith
Forsaken
Meazle
Nagpa
Nerra



Dr_Ruminahui said:


> Lots and lots of fey in the new MM.



Yeah? The only ones that sound fey to me are the Veerbeg, Nymphs and Su Monster (I recall it being mentioned it is Fey in the Alumni article). MAYBE Gremlins. What else are fey?


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 5, 2010)

Rechan said:


> ANY PLANTS HUH HUH HUH?



Am I the only person who finds this disturbing?


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## MadLordOfMilk (Jun 5, 2010)

Pseudopsyche said:


> Yeah, I picked up my copies of Monster Manual 3 and Deserts of Athas at D&D Encounters on Wednesday.  I thought all stores running Encounters got this stuff early. * They are allowed to sell them early, right?*



I don't know what the current "rules" are, but a lot of game stores sell books early when they're actually not supposed to.  AFAIK you're not supposed to sell them until the release date.


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## doctorhook (Jun 5, 2010)

MadLordOfMilk said:


> I don't know what the current "rules" are, but a lot of game stores sell books early when they're actually not supposed to.  AFAIK you're not supposed to sell them until the release date.



Generally, that's true. However, the rumour is that any store running the D&D Encounters program is allowed to sell new releases this month as soon as they receive them as a reward, release date be damned. I say this is a rumour because I can't personally confirm if it's true; it's just what I've heard.


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## Nymrohd (Jun 5, 2010)

Rechan said:


> Anybody with the Book - the list in the first post, am I missing anything from it? Or is that the complete ToC?
> 
> WHAT are the following monsters?
> Choldrith
> ...




Don't have the book but Nerra are humanoids with mirror based powers from the plane of Mirrors. Choldrith are like driders (they are the priest caste among the chitines, slave-spider hybrids from FR). I can see the Meazle in my mind but cannot focus enough to remember which damn book it was from

On another note, Norkers and Xvarts! I'm in love.


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## Dice4Hire (Jun 5, 2010)

Rechan said:


> ANY PLANTS HUH HUH HUH?




They don't have the plants you are looking for *handwave*


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## fba827 (Jun 5, 2010)

doctorhook said:


> Generally, that's true. However, the rumour is that any store running the D&D Encounters program is allowed to sell new releases this month as soon as they receive them as a reward, release date be damned. I say this is a rumour because I can't personally confirm if it's true; it's just what I've heard.




While I have no source, I recall hearing the same rumor.
(Something along the lines of "to help FLGSs compete against the likes of 'big name online sellers' who discount far beyond what a FLGS could compete with...")


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## Peraion Graufalke (Jun 5, 2010)

Nymrohd said:


> I can see the Meazle in my mind but cannot focus enough to remember which damn book it was from




The Meazel is from 2e's MC3 (Forgotten Realms).


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## thalmin (Jun 5, 2010)

MadLordOfMilk said:


> I don't know what the current "rules" are, but a lot of game stores sell books early when they're actually not supposed to.  AFAIK you're not supposed to sell them until the release date.



 There is the regular release date, and there is Core+ sale date for the Core stores which is 10 days earlier, not "When received."


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## Squizzle (Jun 5, 2010)

Peraion Graufalke said:


> The Meazel is from 2e's MC3 (Forgotten Realms).




By which you mean "the first-edition _Fiend Folio_".


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Jun 5, 2010)

Rechan said:


> Some questions



Choldrith - its like a Dryder (so, a woman/spider thing)
Forsaken - humanoids possessed by spirits of dead gods
Meazle - a race of deseased, cursed cannibals
Nagpa - vulture looking humanoid wizard types
Nerra - immortal creature made of mirrors

The fey I see are:

Drow (well, IMHO, they don't really count, but 7 types), Gremlin, Hags (3 types), Nymph (5 types), Oblivion Moss (6 types), Su Monster (3 types), Verbeerg (3 types), Wilden (3 types), Xivort (4 types)

So, not as much as I though - I guess so many at the end of the book gave me the wrong impression.

That said, there is a bunch of stuff with a strong "natural" feel - Yeti's, giant frogs, spiders, girillions and the like.


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## Pseudopsyche (Jun 5, 2010)

Rechan said:


> WHAT are the following monsters?
> Choldrith
> Forsaken
> Meazle
> ...



"Choldriths are always female, and they resemble driders, except their skin is pale." They are the most powerful monster in the Chitine section, all natural humanoids with the spider keyword. They are priestesses of Lolth.

Forsaken are epic humanoids inhabited by the divine energy of gods slain while in the natural world. They're all blind and have a triggered action called Fragment of Immortality. 

"Wretched survivors of a cruel pact with an arch devil, the diseased and disfigured meazles feast on living beings, craving humanoid flesh above all else." Creepy looking buggers. All have a nasty aura called Wretched Curse of Baalzebul. 

The Nagpas are former servants of the primordials, "bestowed with the cunning of devils and the beauty of nymphs." But they betrayed their masters, so "the primordials transformed them into hideous creatures with an insatiable appetite for wealth and bodily comforts." The primordials did a good job, because they're really ugly now. 

Nerra are now from an astral dominion called the Constellation of Eyes, but they're still heavily mirror-flavored of course.

Anyway, I gleaned the above fluff from the appropriate entries. I want to call out a point I haven't seen mentioned. There is a LOT of story here. MANY entries begin with a FULL PAGE of text giving lore and artwork. The encounter groups are gone, replaced by a single paragraph describing likely allies. The new stat block formats are awesome. I think WotC nailed it this time. The best part is that they've revisited some iconic monsters with the improved format: giants, gargoyles, ghouls, gnolls, minotaurs, ogres.

For me, the most welcome sight: "Air, earth, fire, and water elementals are the purest of their kind. Any spellcaster who wants to dabble in the summoning and binding of elemental entities first starts with these simple elemental creatures." Small, medium, and large, levels 1, 11, and 21 (plus or minus one, depending on the element). And they're pretty interesting mechanically, to boot!


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## Rechan (Jun 5, 2010)

TarionzCousin said:


> Am I the only person who finds this disturbing?



My campaign is set in a jungle. So pbttt.


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## Rechan (Jun 5, 2010)

Yeti? Didn't hear about those before in the book.

Look up at the OP - are there any monsters missing?


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## cignus_pfaccari (Jun 5, 2010)

Pseudopsyche said:


> For me, the most welcome sight: "Air, earth, fire, and water elementals are the purest of their kind. Any spellcaster who wants to dabble in the summoning and binding of elemental entities first starts with these simple elemental creatures." Small, medium, and large, levels 1, 11, and 21 (plus or minus one, depending on the element). And they're pretty interesting mechanically, to boot!




That was a welcome surprise.  I thought unflavored elementals were gone the way of the dodo.  Woot!

Lots of epic-level stuff in there, too, more than I recall from the other two MMs.

Brad


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## the Jester (Jun 5, 2010)

Shroomy said:


> MM3 is readily available in the US at WotC premier game stores since today is 10 days before the official release date.




How do I find out where the closest one to my location is??


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## thalmin (Jun 5, 2010)

Go to the WotC D&D home page put in your zip and click on Encounters. Those stores will probably be Core stores.


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## bagger245 (Jun 5, 2010)

So, are all the iconic monsters all covered between the MM1-MM3 for 4e?


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## Obryn (Jun 5, 2010)

I am thrilled single-element elementals are apparently back!  Thank goodness!

-O


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Jun 6, 2010)

bagger245 said:


> So, are all the iconic monsters all covered between the MM1-MM3 for 4e?




No Ju-Ju Zombies yet.


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## Rechan (Jun 6, 2010)

Nevermind.


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## Rechan (Jun 6, 2010)

Updated the OP ToC; someone on RPG.net answered me. Full everything is there.

What kind of spiders and gargoyles are present? What levels on the apes?


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## Pseudopsyche (Jun 6, 2010)

Rechan said:


> What kind of spiders and gargoyles are present? What levels on the apes?



The Ambush Spider (Level 2 Lurker) is very fast and only needs regular concealment or cover to hide. The Spiderling is a Level 4 Minion Skirmisher inflicts cumulative vulnerability to poison. The Feyspitter Spider (Level 7 Controller) has poison that sends it victims into a dreamlike dance, sliding them 3 squares each time they fail their saves. A Lolth's Reaver is a Level 25 Brute that can serve as a mount. 

The Ironstone Gargoyle (Level 7 Skirmisher) is highly mobile and adept at avoiding opportunity attacks. The Hornstone Gargoyle (Level 8 Brute) can impale victims and drag them around (while flying?). The Obsidian Gargoyle (Level 8 Minion Soldier) deals automatic damage to enemies that leave any adjacent square. The Runic Gargoyle (Level 8 Soldier) is very good at protecting its master, often a foul cultist or spellcaster. 

The apes are levels 4, 5, and 6.


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## Rechan (Jun 6, 2010)

I would give you more XP if I could.  Boo, I was hoping for a trapdoor spider, or something interesting like that. 

Are the Crauds... lame/dorky? I found the bullywugs very... weak and not compelling, regardless of their legacy. 

Anything you've ran across with some interesting/new mechanics you like?


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## Peraion Graufalke (Jun 6, 2010)

Squizzle said:


> By which you mean "the first-edition _Fiend Folio_".




Ah, I didn't know that.


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## Glyfair (Jun 6, 2010)

thalmin said:


> Go to the WotC D&D home page put in your zip and click on Encounters. Those stores will probably be Core stores.



If you look for the "Buy" and go to the Blue markers these should be the Premiere stores (the ones allowed to sell them early).


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## fba827 (Jun 6, 2010)

not that i'm expecting (or even necessarily "wanting") any, are there any NPC stat writeups for monsters in the appendix (like they have in MM1 and MM2) - if so, what are they?


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## doctorhook (Jun 6, 2010)

cignus_pfaccari said:


> That was a welcome surprise.  I thought unflavored elementals were gone the way of the dodo.  Woot!



I think a lot of people thought so, although in hindsight, there's no reason they couldn't have been in 4E all along. I suppose the reason for waiting two years to publish them was to establish that "pure" elementals are definitely not the norm now; 4E has given us a much more diverse elemental landscape, no doubt. (Consider the reason for mixed-elementals in the first two Monster Manuals to be a sort of "elemental affirmative action"; this way, mono-elementals don't get all the glory by coming first.)

Now that they are printing mono-elementals, I'd like to see them do all the para- and quasi-elementals for 4E, stripped of the obsolete cosmological basis, I mean. In 4E, we aren't restricted to only four elements anymore, and so there's no reason we couldn't have "pure" mud elementals or smoke elementals or vacuum elementals or lightning elementals; similarly, a magma elemental needn't be assumed to be a fusion of elemental fire and earth -- now it's just living elemental magma, period.


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## Almacov (Jun 6, 2010)

Pseudopsyche said:


> The Feyspitter Spider (Level 7 Controller) has poison that sends it victims into a dreamlike dance, sliding them 3 squares each time they fail their saves.




So we're getting _closer_ to having the tarantella back.
The Feyspitter just teaches a different style. 

I think I'm going to get a lot of use out of this book...


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## the Jester (Jun 6, 2010)

doctorhook said:


> I think a lot of people thought so, although in hindsight, there's no reason they couldn't have been in 4E all along. I suppose the reason for waiting two years to publish them was to establish that "pure" elementals are definitely not the norm now; 4E has given us a much more diverse elemental landscape, no doubt.0




IIRC there were rumors that the "classical" elementals would return as early as Manual of the Planes, but I had come to the conclusion that they'd all been shifted into archons.

I'm happy to see them back!


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 6, 2010)

Rechan said:


> My campaign is set in a jungle. So pbttt.



Are you holding out for vegepygmies?


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## the Jester (Jun 6, 2010)

Almacov said:


> So we're getting _closer_ to having the tarantella back.




It's not official, but...


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## Rechan (Jun 6, 2010)

TarionzCousin said:


> Are you holding out for vegepygmies?



No, not really. The yellow musk creeper, assassin vine, and molds.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jun 6, 2010)

What's the fluff for the Spellweavers, have they ever elaborated more on these mysterious creatures beyond "they like collecting magic"?


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## Pseudopsyche (Jun 6, 2010)

Rechan said:


> Are the Crauds... lame/dorky? I found the bullywugs very... weak and not compelling, regardless of their legacy.
> 
> Anything you've ran across with some interesting/new mechanics you like?



The crauds doesn't seem dorky to me, but then again I like the bullywugs.

Mind you, I haven't had much time to peruse the book closely, but the oblivion moss, mentioned in a recent D&D Alumni, looks pretty cool. It's a level 12 elite controller that has an encounter power that prevents a PC from remembering how to use its encounter and daily powers (save ends), and creates a minion duplicate of the target that can (more or less) use one of the target's at wills. The oblivion moss's power recharges if the minion is destroyed, but it can also absorb any damage dealt to the minion. The DM chooses the minion's role (and consequently its powers besides the target's at-will). A sidebar also encourages the DM to have the target's player make the attack rolls for the minion, to emphasize that it is a duplicate of the PC. Looks like it should make for a fun encounter!


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## Shroomy (Jun 6, 2010)

bagger245 said:


> So, are all the iconic monsters all covered between the MM1-MM3 for 4e?




I don't think so, here's a list of monsters from 1e AD&D monster books that I think can still be converted (I'm intentionally leaving out the named creatures and some I've heard are coming out):

MM1
Aerial Servant
Aquatic Elf
Blink Dog
Brownie
Dragon Turtle
Eye of the Deep
Fungus, Shrieker
Fungus, Violet Fungus
Giant Crab
Invisible Stalker
Leucrotta
Leprechaun
Locathah
Lycanthrope, Werebear
Merfolk
Morkoth
Pegasus
Peryton
Slithering Tracker
Smilodon
Sprite, Nixie
Sprite, Pixie
Sylph
Triton

MM2
Annis
Aurumvorax
Basidirond
Boggart
Boggle
Dao
Formian
Froghemoth
Grippli
Grig
Elemental Grues (Chaggrin, Harginn, Ildriss, and Varrdig)
Hangman Tree
Hordling
Kech
Seawolf
Marid
Modrons!
Mongrelman
Muckdweller
Nereid
Para-Elementals
Pech
Selkie
Spectator
Tasloi
Wemic
Wolfwere
Yeth Hound
Juju Zombie

1e FF (almost all the good monsters in this book have already been converted IMO)
Aarakocra
Caryatid Column
Crypt Thing
Guardian Daemon
Jermlaine
Kamadan
Mephits
Penanggalan
Yellow Musk Creeper
Yellow Musk Creeper Zombies

Really, if you think about it, a book on the Feywild and a book on Aquatic adventuring similar to the 3.5e supplement _Stormwrack_ would take care of almost all of my list.


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## Rechan (Jun 6, 2010)

Hey Shroomy. I donno about 1e, but I can think of some 2e ones that are missing:

Lycanthrope, Werefox
Lurker (above, below)
Wolf-In-Sheep's-Clothing

Also missing yellow mold and brown mold. I'd be happy to see them as a hazard. 

I want that Feywild book. MY GOD do I want it.



Pseudopsyche said:


> The crauds doesn't seem dorky to me, but then again I like the bullywugs.



Bare in mind I also mean mechanically. The Bullywugs didn't exactly perform all that successfully to me.


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## Zaukrie (Jun 6, 2010)

Great book. I could have used more original monsters (as in, not converted from previous versions), but a great book. I still want my Peryton......

I also still want a picture for every monster, it's not 100% clear to me what all the variations look like, but maybe in my quick scan I overlooked something.

But, I like the book quite a bit, and recommend it heartily.


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## Pseudopsyche (Jun 6, 2010)

Rechan said:


> Bare in mind I also mean mechanically. The Bullywugs didn't exactly perform all that successfully to me.



Ah, I see.  Yeah, I like the story behind the bullywug more than I like its mechanics.  Anyway, the crauds feel very different to me.  Instead of a race of dim-witted (Int 6-10) frog-men, crauds are straight-up monsters: Medium beasts (Int 3) that plague coast and sea.  The artwork manages not to make them look too much like oversized lobsters, but each type has a different schtick with its giant claws.


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## Mentat55 (Jun 6, 2010)

I think a lot of the monsters that Shroomy mentioned from the 1e MM, MM2, and FF may never see the light of day.  The tiny fey, for example, seem like they would fall into that category of "creatures that you don't need combat stats for" and so may not be converted.  Paraelementals, for example, don't fit the 4e cosmology, and their niche has largely been occupied by the mixed element elementals that are now the norm in 4e.  Molds and shrieker fungus definitely fit as hazards or terrain, rather than monsters.  I am not saying these monsters don't belong -- just that the designers may see no reason to convert them.

That being said, a lot of cool monsters on that list.  The eye of the deep, dragon turtle, invisible stalker, yellow musk creeper, werebear, peryton, and blink dog jumped out at me as monsters that I hadn't thought about for a bit, but then said, "Why haven't we seen these yet?"


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## Votan (Jun 7, 2010)

fba827 said:


> While I have no source, I recall hearing the same rumor.
> (Something along the lines of "to help FLGSs compete against the likes of 'big name online sellers' who discount far beyond what a FLGS could compete with...")




If so then this is a fine, fine idea.


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## firesnakearies (Jun 7, 2010)

Rechan said:


> Allabar, Opener of the the Way - 30th level Soldier (Planet Sized Far Realms baddy)





Sweet.


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## Rechan (Jun 7, 2010)

What are the roles/levels of the cloakers, dark ones and su monsters? Also, I presume the scarecrow is low level?

I'm surprised the Tanarukk are in the book without also including the elf/demon hybrids.


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## Rechan (Jun 7, 2010)

More info on the Star Spawn and Allandar:



> Related to the Nyarlothep (or however you spell it) analogue from among  the Star Pact pseudo-pantheon in system (background gives some idea as  to the nature of the others - if Allandar's origin is the same as the  others).  Level 30 solo soldier, with a given size of gargantuan (with a  sidebar on how to interpret that - including the possibility of  upsizing him to full scale micro-planet - or having the stats as written  refer to an avatar
> 
> ).   It is "the opener of the way" and has something resembling an agenda  (go fig, momma named him well).  Power wise he has a large aura of  forced movement (gravity, natch), some tentacles for melee, a close  burst hit and die (remember, at epic death is just a status effect), and  a largish blast of psychic dmg + a humorous status effect (trust me  your players will love it).  Not really the most powerful opponent  you've ever fought, but definitely worthy of an end-of-campaign throw  down.






> The star spawn in the book are three more for three other entities (I  think we're almost up to one for each, but it's been a while since I  needed to know much about them so my math could very well be off) - this  time around we get Ulban (nasty looking starfish centrauroid dude),  Caiphon (actually the most human-like to date, and a very nasty  controller/leader type, kinda of weak on his own but man, leaving him  alone to wander around the battlefield will hurt like hell) and Nihal  (tentacle-snakes with time/space/reality bending stuff), and Mr Opener  of the Ways himself.


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Jun 7, 2010)

Rechan said:


> What are the roles/levels of the cloakers, dark ones and su monsters? Also, I presume the scarecrow is low level?
> 
> I'm surprised the Tanarukk are in the book without also including the elf/demon hybrids.




Cloakers
Cloaker Ambusher - _Lvl 12 Lurker
_Cloaker Lord _- Lvl 18 Controller

_Dark Ones
Hex Knight _- Lvl 4 Soldier
_Shadow Bolter  _- Lvl 5 Artillery
_Shadow Speaker - _Lvl 6 Controller

_Su Monster
Su Sentinel _- Lvl 10 Skirmisher
_Su Ambusher _- Lvl 11 Minion Soldier
_Su Alpha _- Lvl 12 Brute

_Myself, I'm not surprised about having Tanarukk without other demon/humanoid hybrids - it allows DMs to have paragon levelled orks to fight, the concept doesn't really require having other mixes, and allows expansion on the concept in future books.  Plus, orks are inherently an "evil" race - so fighting "eviler" orks may be easier to fit into an adventure than corrupted "good" races.


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## Rechan (Jun 7, 2010)

Aw. That's not all that inspiring, Cloaker wise.

I also would give you XP if I could, Doc.


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## Markn (Jun 7, 2010)

Rechan said:


> I also would give you XP if I could, Doc.




Gotcha covered!


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks guys - and I realised I missed one of Rechan's questions.

No, in fact, the Scarecrows aren't low levels - there are 3 types:

Scarecrow Shambler - _Lvl 10 Minion Brute_
Scarecrow Guardian - _Lvl 13 Soldier_
Scarecore Haunter - _Lvl 13 Lurker_

So all lower Paragon.... those are some scary scarecrows. Makes one wonder just how scary crows are in D&D if they need paragon level scarecrows to chase them away. 

As for the Cloaker Lord, its still pretty much a lurker, in that it has all the same abilities as the Ambusher does.  I guess it just got moved from Lurker to Controller as it has a couple of other abilities as well, namely a recharging moan attack (a close burst) that makes targets run away, and an encounter moan (again close burst) that stuns targets on a hit, dazes on a miss.

Overall, the MM3 continues the trend of the MM2 with more interesting and more complicated monsters - pretty much everything has several powers.  It also seems like monsters do more damage, and have more chances to take actions (a lot of interupt powers out there, even for standard monsters.  As well, lots of things that happen that trigger when monsters become bloodied or are reduced to zero HPs.  Hopefully the new stat block will help keep track of all the stuff they can do - my next session is likely to be confusing (using monsters with both the new and the old stat blocks), but I suspect once I get used to the new block and Monster Builder reblocks all the monsters it will be much easier.


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## Festivus (Jun 7, 2010)

You list Frog and Giant Frog separately, how menacing is the "Frog" versus the "Giant Frog"?


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## Rechan (Jun 8, 2010)

Dr Ru said:
			
		

> So all lower Paragon.... those are some scary scarecrows. Makes one  wonder just how scary crows are in D&D if they need paragon level  scarecrows to chase them away.



That's rather odd. Scarecrows in the past have been presented as low level constructs. Your "pre-golems". 



> Overall, the MM3 continues the trend of the MM2 with more interesting  and more complicated monsters - pretty much everything has several  powers.



Good. The monsters that have a basic attack and then one attack really annoy the hell out of me. 

Also, as far as complex and confusing, one method is to pick only one Complex monster for an encounter, and for the rest pick less confusing monsters, just so you don't have to juggle too much at the table.



Festivus said:


> You list Frog and Giant Frog separately, how menacing is the "Frog" versus the "Giant Frog"?



That was my bad. I was continually rearranging and adjusting to be alphabetical, and just missed it.


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## The Little Raven (Jun 8, 2010)

Rechan said:


> I'm surprised the Tanarukk are in the book without also including the elf/demon hybrids.




Draegloth, being drow/demon hybrids, fill that role nicely.


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## Istar (Jun 8, 2010)

Any monsters with Player Character stats ?


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm not sure what you mean by that... please explain.


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## Mentat55 (Jun 8, 2010)

I think Istar means, are there any race write-ups in MM3, e.g., like bugbears and githyanki in MM1, and kenku and bullywugs in MM2.

I don't have the MM3, but I believe the answer, from what I read on RPG.net, is no.


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## Mithreinmaethor (Jun 8, 2010)

I think WOTC learned their lesson and we wont see any more racial writeups in the back of the MM's.  Too many people automatically expect to use monsters as races even though it was highly discouraged to do so.

So basically dont print stats for monsters as players and argument is over.  Pretty simple.


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Jun 8, 2010)

Mentat55 said:


> I think Istar means, are there any race write-ups in MM3, e.g., like bugbears and githyanki in MM1, and kenku and bullywugs in MM2.
> 
> I don't have the MM3, but I believe the answer, from what I read on RPG.net, is no.




Ah, if that's the case then you are correct - there are no monsters done up as PC/NPC races in MM3.


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## Vael (Jun 8, 2010)

I'd love some info on Gremlins, what they're like in DnD.


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## Kwalish Kid (Jun 8, 2010)

Vael said:


> I'd love some info on Gremlins, what they're like in DnD.



Here's the basics:
1. Don;t expose them  to bright light, especially sunlight.
2. Don't let them get wet. 
3. The most important rule is that no matter how much they beg or cry; they must never, ever be fed after midnight.


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## Dr_Ruminahui (Jun 8, 2010)

Well, there are 4 types of Gremlins:

Gremlin Deciever (lvl. 5 controller)
Gr. Skulker (lvl. 7 lurker)
Gr. Conniver (Lvl. 17 controller)
Gr. Prankster (lvl, 17 minion controller)

There "racial" abilities are an aura that gives all enemies a hefty penalty to skill checks and the ability to swap places with an adjacent enemy who misses it with a melee attack.

The Deciever and Conniver have charm powers, while the skulker has a very potent stealth ability, at least until the PCs figure out how it works.

Fluff wise, they like to cause mischief which is blamed on others.  Deciever steals stuff, and then plants it on others.  The Skulker is essentially a serial killer.  The Conniver works by miscommunication, getting others to mistrust and war with each other.


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## The Little Raven (Jun 8, 2010)

Kwalish Kid said:


> Here's the basics:
> 1. Don;t expose them  to bright light, especially sunlight.
> 2. Don't let them get wet.
> 3. The most important rule is that no matter how much they beg or cry; they must never, ever be fed after midnight.




If you've got gremlins, you've already broken rule #3.


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## Rechan (Jun 8, 2010)

Critical Hits gave an interview with one of the MM3 designers:
Monster Manual 3 Interview with Greg Bilsland : Critical Hits

Seems the focus for this thing is (among other things), paragon/epic. Which is a shame for me; I doubt I'll be able to play past heroic anytime soon.


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## Mika (Jun 8, 2010)

Istar said:


> Any monsters with Player Character stats ?




No -- none at all.


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## Scribble (Jun 8, 2010)

I don't have (and haven't actually seen) the book yet, but someone told me some of the stat blocks are blue?

Is this true? And if so is any reason given?


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## Drammattex (Jun 8, 2010)

Scribble said:


> I don't have (and haven't actually seen) the book yet, but someone told me some of the stat blocks are blue?
> 
> Is this true? And if so is any reason given?




They are green.

Object mimics are level 8 

It's possible whoever told you they were blue was looking at a mimic imitating the book. You should be very careful around this person. It may be an impersonator mimic. In fact, I'm certain of it.


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## darjr (Jun 9, 2010)

Greg Bilsland goes into more detail on is blog More on Monsters « In the Eye of the Beholder

It's neat to see who worked on what and that the MM3 is supposed to have more detail about the default world. I really like that it'll have a lot of classic monsters and that Greg went back to Dragon 54 for the Su Monster.

He also talks about about updating the math, page 42 and the Essentials products. Nice.

I like the end about DM's and how they are still so important to a good game.


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## MortalPlague (Jun 13, 2010)

I picked up MM3 yesterday, and I've been very impressed with the monsters I've seen so far.  The damage boosts really make sense to me, and the new stat block seems easy to run.  I'm going to be using exclusively MM3 monsters in my next session on Tuesday, so we'll see how that goes over!

My favorite so far?  The Banderhobbs.  I never used them in previous editions, but I'm going to have to find a way to throw them into my campaign.


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## Jack99 (Jun 13, 2010)

Rechan said:


> It's the place where those from Japan go.
> 
> Although Jack99 or others here sometimes get the New stuff and have a thread dedicated to it. Just haven't recently.




I still do, but can't seem the time to post these days


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## Zaukrie (Jun 13, 2010)

The Bandershobbs are new to D&D, I believe, as I think Drammatex (who posted right above you) created them for his home campaign and got them into the book.


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## Scribble (Jun 14, 2010)

Got a copy of the book yesterday... WOW there is a TON more flavor in this book then there seems to have been in a LONG time.


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## Herschel (Jun 14, 2010)

And the Catoblepas with absolutely punish those groups that like to leave their party members unconscious until they miss a couple of death saves while they do other things.


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## Drammattex (Jun 14, 2010)

Zaukrie said:


> The Bandershobbs are new to D&D, I believe, as I think Drammatex (who posted right above you) created them for his home campaign and got them into the book.




Thanks for the shout out, Z!
@ Herschel: I was hoping that would be the case.

I rambled about banderhobbs a little here, in case there's interest.

Rambled about the nymphs, kraken, and yeti too, but will probably just post links to the WotC site for the mimic and catoblepas (this chat may be forthcoming), since I have little to say about them that hasn't already been said. 

As long as I'm shamelessly discussing stuff I've worked on, check out the Demonomicon excerpts on WotC today and click through the art too. My baby, Oublivae, is due on July 5th. Exciting.


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## MrMyth (Jun 14, 2010)

MortalPlague said:


> I picked up MM3 yesterday, and I've been very impressed with the monsters I've seen so far. The damage boosts really make sense to me, and the new stat block seems easy to run. I'm going to be using exclusively MM3 monsters in my next session on Tuesday, so we'll see how that goes over!
> 
> My favorite so far? The Banderhobbs. I never used them in previous editions, but I'm going to have to find a way to throw them into my campaign.




Agreed on all counts! I pretty much instantly levelled the Banderhobbs up so I could toss them into my current campaign, where the PCs are trapped in an epic level Domain of Dread... that now has Banderhobbs as the 'secret police' of the dark powers.


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## Drammattex (Jun 14, 2010)

You guys are seriously making my day--I'm totally thrilled that people like the banderhobb (and are being swallowed by them on a regular basis!).

As for me, I may de-level them a bit, but perhaps not. I'm used to using them (in 2e and 3e) around 5th-8th level, but now that I'm no longer afraid to run adventures above 10th level I may just leave them where they are and have them be horrible, somewhat unstoppable monsters until the PCs become savvy enough to take them on. Much to consider...

In 2e, one of the PCs was grabbed by the tongue and dragged toward the mouth. He locked his legs on the thing's jaws as it drew him in, and fought it for a while before being swallowed (his strength sucked). There was some shock as he spent a couple rounds out of the fight before slicing his way through its belly and exploding back onto the field. That player was all about the cinematic (and a high octane DM as well).


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## Crothian (Jun 14, 2010)

I got my copy of this and the Tiefling book today.


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