# Unofficial literary LOTR sequel



## VGmaster9 (Aug 13, 2011)

I just found out that there was actually a sequel to LOTR written by a Russian author named Nick Perumov. Here's some information from a forum regarding the novel.



> In 1982, Fellowship of the Ring of the LotR trilogy is published in Russian for the first time (TTT and RotK, along with most other fantasy is still banned under the Soviet regime). A micro-biologist by the name of Nick Perumov buys the book, reads it, loves it. He then, wanting desperately to read the rest, gets ahold of smuggled English publications of TTT and RotK.
> 
> In 1983, Perumov translates the entire trilogy into Russian.
> 
> ...




What do you think? How do you like the idea of a LOTR sequel?


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## jonesy (Aug 13, 2011)

There's a short summary of the first book, and even shorter ones of the other two here, plus some excerpts:
http://www.corina.com/en/aut/perum.html

As for what I think, I don't really know. I'd be interested enough to read them if there was a complete translation. But I have heard that his later completely original stories are actually quite good.


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## Jack7 (Aug 13, 2011)

This sounds interesting to me.

I like many Russian writers and think some of them among the best writers in the world.

I'd like to read the books in translation. See if they're any good.

Plus I like the emphasis on the Silmarillion rather than the LOTR.


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## GreyLord (Aug 14, 2011)

A fake sequel not endorsed by Tolkein estates?

No sign of any officiality about it at all?

I'm thinking it's more along the lines of fan fiction...there is some really good fan fiction out there...but fan fiction nontheless.

Would I read it?

Depends, do I have to pay for it or not?


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## Mark CMG (Aug 14, 2011)

Sounds interesting enough to check out if it ever gets translated and, perhaps, cleaned up by an editor with some proper Tolkien chops.


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## MarkB (Aug 14, 2011)

Send a link to Peter Jackson. He'll be looking for something to do once he's finished The Hobbit.


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## Dioltach (Aug 14, 2011)

Dennis L. McKiernan also wrote a sequel to _The Lord of the Rings_. When the Tolkien estate refused to authorise it, he changed the names and setting. I've never read it, but if it's anything like _The Iron Tower_, the prequel that he wrote as a background to his revised version, it must be pretty awful.

(Really, how many times can the dwarf "cast his hood over his eyes" whenever he gets some bad news or is feeling down?)


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## Dire Bare (Aug 14, 2011)

GreyLord said:


> A fake sequel not endorsed by Tolkein estates?
> 
> No sign of any officiality about it at all?
> 
> ...




It's not fake, but it does fit the definition of fan fiction, albeit by a quality, professional author and translator.  The only real difference between a work of fan fiction and a professional work is if the original rights holder authorizes your story.  Quality has nothing to do with it.  

The man wrote it for himself as a writing exercise and personal wish fulfillment, and it is only due to political change that he is trying to get it published after the fact.  I find the history behind this unofficial sequel fascinating, and if an English translation is ever offered, I'll read it!


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## Ahzad (Aug 14, 2011)

there's an english version out there on the web you can download. I've got a copy but I don't remember where the website was i snagged in from. i'll see if i can track it down either before or after vacation tomorrow.


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## RainOfSteel (Aug 15, 2011)

First, this type of unauthorized copyright theft is the kiss of death in the SF&F publication industry in North America.  There isn't a single real publisher who would take it on without the Tolkien estate's authorization.  Vanity publishers might, or might not, shy from it; but I think they would get sued if they took it on.

I find myself doubting it would be authorized.  The Tolkien estate would, at least, want to claim back-royalties for its full publication history, permanent rights to a share on development in all media, and other possible issues like script control or even forced re-writes of the published material (the sky is the limit).

------------------------------------------



Dioltach said:


> Dennis L. McKiernan also wrote a sequel to _The Lord of the Rings_. When the Tolkien estate refused to authorise it, he changed the names and setting. I've never read it, but if it's anything like _The Iron Tower_, the prequel that he wrote as a background to his revised version, it must be pretty awful.



You beat me to the reference.

Dennis L. McKiernan wrote the trilogy as a backstory to a proposed sequel to the tLotR.  The books were named The Dark Tide, The Shadows of Doom, The Darkest Day.

The Tolkien estate did not want to do this.

Dennis L. McKiernan's publisher liked the trilogy.  The publisher encouraged him to change the names and setting to sufficiently avoid a copyright suit and they went ahead and published.  (The wisdom of this decision may be debatable.)

Before I ever knew this, I picked up the first book.  Although I despise claims of copying Tolkien, I couldn't stop thinking it as I read through the book.  I made it to around page 40-50 and quit.  The writing quality was poor; obviously as a result of the re-write.

I still wonder what it read like when it was first submitted.

Later on, the trilogy was published in omnibus as The Iron Tower.




Dire Bare said:


> Quality has nothing to do with it.



You're right, fan fic can have substantial quality.  Frequently, though, it does not.  It has a hefty reputation for poor quality, somewhat deserved, in my opinion.


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 15, 2011)

RainOfSteel said:


> Dennis L. McKiernan's publisher liked the trilogy.  The publisher encouraged him to change the names and setting to sufficiently avoid a copyright suit and they went ahead and published.  (The wisdom of this decision may be debatable.)
> 
> Before I ever knew this, I picked up the first book.  Although I despise claims of copying Tolkien, I couldn't stop thinking it as I read through the book.  I made it to around page 40-50 and quit.  The writing quality was poor; obviously as a result of the re-write.




Glad I'm not the only one. I read it decades ago, completely ignorant of the LotR connection. (In fact, I hadn't even read LotR at that point, though I think I'd read _The Hobbit_.)

My problems weren't due to the LotR-like aspects--as I said, I didn't know about them--but just due to the fact that the books were bad. McKiernan might be a great writer, and the books he's published since could be fantastic. I honestly don't know; I've never had the urge to pick them up.


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## Dire Bare (Aug 15, 2011)

RainOfSteel said:


> First, this type of unauthorized copyright theft is the kiss of death in the SF&F publication industry in North America.




Theft?  Seems you're overstating things if what's been posted in this thread is true.  The man wrote it as an exercise and a personal labor of love.  He is now trying to get it published, it is not published yet.  I agree it's unlikely it'll ever get professionally published for the reasons you mention, but it's hardly theft or anything underhanded at all.



> You're right, fan fic can have substantial quality.  Frequently, though, it does not.  It has a hefty reputation for poor quality, somewhat deserved, in my opinion.




I realize the stereotype of fan fiction is that of poor-quality, and I have no doubt the intertubz are filled with slash fanfic shlock.  However, fanfic is a stereotype, and as usual with stereotypes it is often not true in the specific.  It's the literary equivalent of independent film, community theatre, small-time RPG publishers, and small-town arts & crafts fairs . . . . filled with amateur artists, with a decent amount of professional and/or high quality artists as well.  Truly the only difference between "fanfic" and "literature" is if you're getting paid, and probably paid poorly at that.  And bookstores are crammed with crap quality professionally published stories.


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## jonesy (Aug 15, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> Theft?  Seems you're overstating things if what's been posted in this thread is true.  The man wrote it as an exercise and a personal labor of love.  He is now trying to get it published, it is not published yet.



It is in Russia, kind of. By a publisher who is apparently a friend of his. Sold 100,000 copies. He got the equivalent of 300 dollars for it. This all from wikipedia so take it as you will. After that he has been writing original stuff, which seems to be selling quite well.


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## Croesus (Aug 15, 2011)

jonesy said:


> There's a short summary of the first book, and even shorter ones of the other two here, plus some excerpts:
> Autoren




Has anyone else gone to this site and checked the excerpts? It may be the original writing, or the English translation, or both, but I'm not impressed. Having read the two excerpts posted, I have no desire to read three whole books of the same.


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## Tanstaafl_au (Aug 16, 2011)

Fanfiction of dubious legailty if he's trying to get cash out of an IP not his.


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## RainOfSteel (Aug 18, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> Theft?  Seems you're overstating things if what's been posted in this thread is true.  The man wrote it as an exercise and a personal labor of love.  He is now trying to get it published, it is not published yet.  I agree it's unlikely it'll ever get professionally published for the reasons you mention, but it's hardly theft or anything underhanded at all.



From the original post: "In 1993, Ring of Darkness is published in Russia. The novel goes on to sell hundreds of thousands of copies, making Perumov one of the pioneers of Russian fantasy."

That is copyright theft.


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## Squire James (Aug 18, 2011)

Dioltach said:


> Dennis L. McKiernan also wrote a sequel to _The Lord of the Rings_. When the Tolkien estate refused to authorise it, he changed the names and setting. I've never read it, but if it's anything like _The Iron Tower_, the prequel that he wrote as a background to his revised version, it must be pretty awful.
> 
> (Really, how many times can the dwarf "cast his hood over his eyes" whenever he gets some bad news or is feeling down?)




I was fortunate enough to read "Eye of the Hunter" as my first read from him, so I have a lot better general impression of him.  I too was unimpressed with his earlier works, but by this point I suppose he was resigned to the fact that he wasn't going to be let into Middle Earth and in this book he finally started developing some true differences.  It actually read more like a D&D novel than a Tolkien novel.


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