# What domains would be available to Clerics of GOD?



## Green Knight (Jul 10, 2002)

I'm talking the Judeo-Christian God, here. Jehovah, Yahweh, etc. 

SOOOO, let's say he existed in a D&D setting. So what Domains would be available to any Clerics who worshipped him? What Prestige Domains (From Defenders of the Faith) would also be available? I've got some ideas, but I want to see if anyone has any better ideas (Which is VERY likely, as I'm not all that bright  ). 

I have the PHB, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Faiths & Pantheons, the Ravenloft Campaign Setting, and Defenders of the Faith. So if you put down a Domain that isn't from one of those books, I'd appreciate it if you could list from which book it comes from and a brief description of what the deal with that Domain is. 

NOTE: I'm not looking to start a religious debate here. Thanks for the help.


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## jgbrowning (Jul 10, 2002)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> *I'm talking the Judeo-Christian God, here. Jehovah, Yahweh, etc.
> 
> SOOOO, let's say he existed in a D&D setting. So what Domains would be available to any Clerics who worshipped him? What Prestige Domains (From Defenders of the Faith) would also be available? I've got some ideas, but I want to see if anyone has any better ideas (Which is VERY likely, as I'm not all that bright  ).
> 
> ...




I always find it amusing that it is the judeo-christian god and not the judeo-christian-muslim god.  anyway it depends.  there's really a duality god in the bible.  one vengefull and unforgiving and the other one the opposite.  it was one useful way of expressing the environment around them.  i'd say all domains because just look at all the saints.

joe b.


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## Jack Haggerty (Jul 10, 2002)

That depends entirely on which version of the Judeo-Christian God you're talking about...

Every different regilion that uses Him...  Jewdaism, Catholic Christianity, Protestant Christianity, and Islam too...  each has a very different view on how He and His followers should and do act.

Good, Healing, Knowledge, Law, Protection, Strength, Sun and War would all suit Him, depending on you point of view.  

Catholicism, with all of its Patron Saints, could feasibly use practically any domain... except for perhaps a select few such as Chaos, Evil and Magic.


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## Green Knight (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: What domains would be available to Clerics of GOD?*



			
				jgbrowning said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I always find it amusing that it is the judeo-christian god and not the judeo-christian-muslim god.  anyway it depends.  there's really a duality god in the bible.  one vengefull and unforgiving and the other one the opposite.  it was one useful way of expressing the environment around them.  i'd say all domains because just look at all the saints.
> 
> joe b. *




*sigh* Didn't take long, did it?  

A real argument could be made that Allah ISN'T the same as the Judeo-Christian God. Hell, apparently the name "Allah" existed long before Muhammed came along. It was the name of a local moon god (So it's not coincidental that the symbol of Islam is a crescent moon). And unlike Islam, Christianity doesn't discount what came before, the Torah (Which is the Old Testament in Christianity). Islam, however, has its own book. So amusing or not, there's good reason why it's the Judeo-Christian God and not the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. If Muslims had slapped the Old and New Testaments in front of the Koran then it might be a different story.


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## Green Knight (Jul 10, 2002)

Jack Haggerty said:
			
		

> *That depends entirely on which version of the Judeo-Christian God you're talking about...
> 
> Every different regilion that uses Him...  Jewdaism, Catholic Christianity, Protestant Christianity, and Islam too...  each has a very different view on how He and His followers should and do act.
> 
> ...




Well, then give me your version. In your opinion, what Domains would Clerics of God have?


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## jgbrowning (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: What domains would be available to Clerics of GOD?*

"[*sigh* Didn't take long, did it? " 

I wasnt starting a debate just stating what i thought.  i think followers of God could have any domain.  including evil.  they would use evil against non-believers, but im a little less cut-and-dried than most DM's

"A real argument could be made that Allah ISN'T the same as the Judeo-Christian God. Hell, apparently the name "Allah" existed long before Muhammed came along. It was the name of a local moon god (So it's not coincidental that the symbol of Islam is a crescent moon). And unlike Islam, Christianity doesn't discount what came before, the Torah (Which is the Old Testament in Christianity). Islam, however, has its own book. So amusing or not, there's good reason why it's the Judeo-Christian God and not the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. If Muslims had slapped the Old and New Testaments in front of the Koran then it might be a different story. [/B][/QUOTE]"

Muslims do accept the torah.  they consider themselves sons of abraham.  They just consider the koran to supercede other books the way the old christians used to view the new testement.

joe b.


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## Tonguez (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: What domains would be available to Clerics of GOD?*



			
				Green Knight said:
			
		

> *
> 
> *sigh* Didn't take long, did it?
> 
> A real argument could be made that Allah ISN'T the same as the Judeo-Christian God. Hell, apparently the name "Allah" existed long before Muhammed came along. It was the name of a local moon god (So it's not coincidental that the symbol of Islam is a crescent moon). And unlike Islam, Christianity doesn't discount what came before, the Torah (Which is the Old Testament in Christianity). Islam, however, has its own book. So amusing or not, there's good reason why it's the Judeo-Christian God and not the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. If Muslims had slapped the Old and New Testaments in front of the Koran then it might be a different story. *




Actually Muslims do acknowledge the Torah as 'gospel'

Also the word Allah is basically the same as the word Halelu*jah* (both containing the word Jah/Jeh(ovah) = God also rendered as El (*El*ohim and Yaweh all being a names of GOD)

*As to Domains*
As stated earlier ALL Domains are suitable for the Ominipotent GOD of everything. However if a choice is required I'd do the base Domains in this order

*Major Domains* - _ Most suitable ranked from most favoured to less favoured_
Good,  Jehovah-Tsidkenu (Righteousness)
Healing, -Rohphe (Healer)
Protection, - Jireh (Provider)
Destruction, Shaddai (Devastator)
Fire, The Lord is a Consuming Fire
Air, 
Knowledge,
Law, Adonai (Master)
Strength,  El-Rohi (the Strong One who Sees -Shepherd)
Sun, 
War, -Saboath (Lord of Hosts)
*Minor Domains* _okay but not favoured_
Water
Earth, 
Plant, 
Travel, 
Animal, 

*Prohibitted Domains*_These domains are used at the peril of ones soul!_
Trickery,
Luck, 
Evil, 
Chaos, 
Death, 
Magic,


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## jgbrowning (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: What domains would be available to Clerics of GOD?*



			
				Tonguez said:
			
		

> *
> 
> As to Domains
> As stated earlier ALL Domains are suitable for the Ominipotent GOD of everything. However if a choice is required I'd do the base Domains in this order
> ...




First i have a few complaints about your prohibitted domains.  Luck and trickery are both praised when used against the infedel and condemned when used against the believer.  Chaos would be the same, death also and magic only if you belive that arcane magic comes from "the debil."  
Evil i might give you as a prohibited.  

Second, the basic assumption of this whole thread is that the omnipotent GOD of everything has been discribed by christians, jews and muslims.

I'd rather postulate that a greater concept of an omnipotent god has been created within hinduism.  God is everything, everything is god.  Time is all now, space is all now, you are all now.  etc.. that thinking does not limit GOD to being only "good" as we perceive good.  

if we use my hinduesque idea all domains would be allowed.

joe b.


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## Aristotle (Jul 10, 2002)

I agree with some of what's been said here... Here is my take on it. The "one true God" is the god of everything. He created both good and evil, and therefore would have control over all domains. How I would handle this? There are two ways...

1.) God has every domain. End of story.

2.) God has every domain, but each "God fearing" (I didn't want to exclude any) religion only acknowledges certain ones for the purposes of priestly practices.

In addition to this some religions might have a "sub-pantheon" of some sort. For instance the catholics might have a sub-pantheon containing The Virgin Mary and all of the Saints. If this idea was used, then each "deity" in the sub-pantheon would have his or her own domains. Priests would pray to the appropriate sub-deity to invoke each...

Just off the top of my head and at 5:30am. So the concept may have flaws.


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## Lily Inverse (Jul 10, 2002)

If you're set on the four-domain per deity limit (Not sure about that) rather than have priests of God just pick whatever domain they want have them pick out a specific patron saint or archangel who supplies their selection of domain powers, favored weapon, etc. . . 

This would have the advantage of having multiple types of priests without compromising the "One God above All" concept.  For example, while you are a devout priest of God, you are favored by St. Patrick, and thus have access to the Luck domain.

It would take a LOT of research though.


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## Genysys (Jul 10, 2002)

Well my vote goes to Good, Air, Destruction, and War.  Wrathful creator and all that.  Just 'cuz I say so.


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## comrade raoul (Jul 10, 2002)

As we all know, the devil can quote scripture to his purpose. So depending on one's perspective, different real-world religious traditions might have access to different domains, even though they purport to worship the same dude.

Personally, I think God's closest equivalents in the Greyhawk pantheon would be some combination of Pelor and St. Cuthbert. In my own (highly subjective) opinion, I'd say the Big Guy's domains would be Law, War, Destruction, and Sun. Perhaps Glory and/or Domination if you're into prestige domains.


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## Gez (Jul 10, 2002)

Death, hatred, tyranny. As well as air, fire and water.


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## gamecat (Jul 10, 2002)

Gez said:
			
		

> *Death, hatred, tyranny. As well as air, fire and water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You beat me to it, Gez! Religion is the biggest cause of aethiesm in the world.


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## Cheiromancer (Jul 10, 2002)

Although there are scriptural references to what looks a lot like a Flame Strike (2 Kings1:9-12)- which belongs to the War domain- most of the prophets and saints are not warlike.  Clerics who do wage war are often looked upon as great sinners (like Pope Julius II).   Archbishop Turpin (from the Song of Roland) may be an exception.

Don't get me wrong- clerics of GOD have preached crusades and blessed troops and weapons- they rarely fought on their own, though.  So I wouldn't include War among GOD's domains.

The domains I would assign to GOD are Good, Healing, Protection, and maybe Law.  Prestige domains (from DotF) might be Community, Creation, Exorcism, Glory and Inquisition.  Some of these would not be available at different times of History, of course.

-Cheiromancer


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## AGGEMAM (Jul 10, 2002)

I would use the closest relative to God in D&D, that is Ao, from the FR. Ao, like God, he doesn't grant spell, have no domains, and seem utterly careless about his followers granting no benefits at all over others.


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## Kaptain_Kantrip (Jul 10, 2002)

I'm surprised no one mentioned Greyhawk's Pholtus of the Blinding Light as a real world God correlation.  Certainly, some fundamentalist sects would see God as this type of divine power.

What about the Inquisition or Fear domains? There is a non-magical inquisitor core class in AEG's Swashbuckling Adventures (7th Sea d20) book tyhat is really scary.

In all seriousness, I ran a dualistic campaign with two rival gods fighting over the world. One was supposedly good (but had a mostly corrupt priesthood and fanatical Inquisition torturing and burning people at the stake as well as agitating for holy crusades against every nation that did not believe as they did) and a god that was supposedly evil (but was seen as a great liberator, espouser of human nature, and dispeller of lies and hypocrisy by his adherants). Both advocated their own race as superior, and their own religion as being the one true path. Each god could grant any domain it wished, so long as it could be justified by their Holy Scripture. The two then set up their mortal followers to clash against each other to see which way was best, in a contest for the amusement of a distant, uncaring overgod who created them both. Man is but a tool for divine debate as to who's theology/philosophy is better. Anyway, this was quite a popular game world that lasted 5 years.

AGAMNON may be right about Ao being the closest interpretation, however. The priests of the Judeo-Christian god do not cast spells, IIRC, but rather beseech God to intervene for miracles to benefit his flock or curse those that stand in their way. So, no spells and no domains would be most accurate and least heretical. however, allowing the priest a chance to receive divine intervention in crisis situations (generally but not always non-magical effects that could be dismissed as luck or natural phenomena) would be appropriate. 

HarnMaster Religion has a system like this for its priests, with the DC being 17 to get the attention of the priest's god, and the DC being 2 lower to get the attention of a Jesus or Archangel type figure, and 2 lower than that to get the attention of a saint or lesser servitor. There is also a chance for conditions being imposed or retribution (and no intervention) being imposed for angering the entity. The chance of conditions or retribution increase dramatically when calling upon the major and minor servants.


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## Jack Haggerty (Jul 10, 2002)

Cheiromancer said:
			
		

> *Although there are scriptural references to what looks a lot like a Flame Strike (2 Kings1:9-12)- which belongs to the War domain- most of the prophets and saints are not warlike.  Clerics who do wage war are often looked upon as great sinners (like Pope Julius II).   Archbishop Turpin (from the Song of Roland) may be an exception.
> 
> Don't get me wrong- clerics of GOD have preached crusades and blessed troops and weapons- they rarely fought on their own, though.  So I wouldn't include War among GOD's domains.*




Hrm...  Go reread the story about the Battle of Jericho.  Every battle in the Old Testament in which the Jews fought and won (especially against greater odds), was won because God helped them out.  Although I suppose you could attribute many of those miracles to a Destruction domain...

Joshua 6:20-21, "So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown.  As soon the people heard the sound of the trumpets, they raised a great shout, and the wall fell down flat; so the people charged straight ahead into the city and captured it.  Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep and donkeys."

Joshua 6:26-27, "Joshua then pronounced this oath, saying,
'Cursed before the LORD be 
anyone who tries
to build this city -- this Jericho!
At the cost of this firstborn he shall
lay its foundation,
and at the cost of his youngest
he shall set up its gates!'
So the LORD was with Joshua; and his fame was in all the land."

Pretty bloodthristy, don't you think?  And all that time, the Ark of the Covenant was carried by priests as a battle standard.


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## Xeriar (Jul 10, 2002)

Originally Yahweh was a sky/wind god, so if you are going for 'archeological', air/wind/sky (I think these are all valid domains) would be appropriate.  If you really want to go this route, though, you would probably do well to research Judaisms roots a bit further - ie Hinduism.

Once you start getting into what is written in the Old Testement, the god Yahweh becomes the LORD G-d YHWH et. al.  IIRC, there are believed to be five main authors of the pentatauch, one of whom also wrote a number of the books of the (rest of the) old testement.

The author of Deuteronomy, for example, poses a god who could well have the domains of law, destruction, tyrany and maybe even evil.  No wonder evangelicals say 'you don't need to read it'...

The other four are quite thoroughly mixed up.  Generally portfolios will include some mix of vengeance and law.

The New Testement can perhaps become the most thoroughly confusing - as there are so many denominations, so many aspects...  To say nothing of groups like the Gnostics, Cathars, and Moslems to throw into the mix with Samaritans and Jews still practicing their old faith.  Add Baha'i on the end, the only way to get your head even more muddled is recognize the ties to Hinduism, and you are set


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## Cheiromancer (Jul 10, 2002)

G-d does plenty of destructive things, but a lot of it is directly, and not by means of his prophets and priests.

Though the fall of the walls of Jericho- that sounds like a ritual casting of Earthquake, doesn't it?

David and Goliath (1 Samuel 17:59) seems a little much even for a critical hit- heck, even Magic Stone shouldn't knock down an experienced warrior.  Maybe GOD uses the "Instant Death" Rule?

Samson may well have add access to the Strength domain.  But a lot of what he does is beyond even that.  (Book of Judges chapters 13-16)

G-d's chosen people are portrayed as being pretty destructive and warlike at times, but I don't think that one can therefore say that G-d's clerics get access to the Destruction and War domains.  Looking at the Domain spells for these domains, they just doesn't seem something like G-d's prophets and priests would go around and do.

It's like the flood; G-d has power to destroy, and can control the weather and the waves, but he doesn't seem to grant any of that power to Noah.  Noah sure could have used the Animal Domain, though.

Regards,

Cheiromancer


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## GuardianLurker (Jul 10, 2002)

If I remember the DDG correctly, monotheistic gods receive 20 domains (which is purt near all of them), but some of those domains are restricted (in manners which I can't recall).

The Judeo-Christian God is certainly a Greater Deity (Divine Rank 16+, possibly 20+) with at least the following domains :
Creation
Sun
Strength
War
Healing
Earth
Fire
Air
Water
Good
Law
Protection
Death


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## Tonguez (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What domains would be available to Clerics of GOD?*



			
				jgbrowning said:
			
		

> *First i have a few complaints about your prohibitted domains.  Luck and trickery are both praised when used against the infedel and condemned when used against the believer.  Chaos would be the same, death also and magic only if you belive that arcane magic comes from "the debil."
> Evil i might give you as a prohibited.   *




Far enough but I never said they could NOT be used only that they are used with a risk (of eternal damnation) - as such a good cleric could dabble with trickery but if used to excess they could in fact be at risk of a 'fall'. Luck is prohibited because no true beleiver relies on Luck - all things come from the Grace of GOD.

Also Magic is deliberately put as Prohibited because of Biblical scripture which expressly states that all such activity should be avoided as the work of 'spirits' - its not argued whether these spirits are good or evil only that they need to be avoided (see Witch of Endor in Genesis)


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Jul 11, 2002)

Green Knight, I'm not trying to encourage religious debate here either, but I think the necessary domains would depend entirely on what version of Yahweh you're looking for.  The "Old Testament" god was a fairly unpleasant fellow, all around, Death, Destruction, (but also Creation), Strength, War, Law, Domination, Air, Fire, etc.  (Isn't there a Vengeance domain, too?)  If you read the gospels of the New Testament, you're looking at a guy with Water, Healing, Community, Good, Protection, Creation, possibly Travel and maybe even Animal and Plant (which would be completely rejected by all other versions of the guy because of "witchcraft," not to mention the flat-out rejection of nature...).  Zip forward a little bit to the Letters of the Apostles, Revelations, and standard Christian dogma, and you're back to Vengeance (if it exists), War, and Fire, with Healing, Water, and Community probably, and Creation, Law, Glory, Exorcism, and Inquisition.  Oddly enough, Law creeps in at both ends, but Jesus was almost certainly Chaotic Good (as long as you read what he did and said, not what was said about him after the fact).

So it really depends on how you want to look at Yahweh, or which portion of the religion you want to base it on, seeing as consistency hasn't been one of its strong suits.


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## AGGEMAM (Jul 11, 2002)

Vengeance domain ...

In FRCS, there is a Retribution domain, is that close enough ?


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Jul 11, 2002)

AGGEMAM said:
			
		

> *Vengeance domain ...
> 
> In FRCS, there is a Retribution domain, is that close enough ? *




That's probably what I was thinking of.  Remember what the granted power or some of the spells were?


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## AGGEMAM (Jul 11, 2002)

Canis said:
			
		

> *That's probably what I was thinking of.  Remember what the granted power or some of the spells were? *




On the top of my head *I'm looking on page 65 of the FRCS* I think it is:

Granted Power: If you have been harmed by someone in combat, you may make a strike of vengeance with a melee or ranged weapon against that individual on your next action. If the attack hits, you deal maximum damage. You may use this supernatural ability once per day.

Domain Spells: 1) Shield of Faith, 2) Endurance, 3) Speak with Dead, 4) Fire Shield, 5) Mark of Justice, 6) Banishment, 7) Spell Turning, 8) Discern Location, 9) Storm of Vengeance


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Jul 11, 2002)

Yep.  That's the one.  With the exception of Speak with Dead and Discern Location, that sounds pretty Yahweh-ish to me.


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## Green Knight (Jul 12, 2002)

> Green Knight, I'm not trying to encourage religious debate here either, but I think the necessary domains would depend entirely on what version of Yahweh you're looking for.




Sorry for the lack of replies, but I was thinking that this thread had already descended to a hellish level of flaming and best to be avoided lest it rile my blood. 

Anyway, I get your point. I'm not looking for anything specific. Just suggestions. So just make a suggestion, and if you feel so inclined, say "This was back when he was smiting Egypt" or "This is right after Jesus", etc. Doesn't matter to me. 

I really need to get Deities and Demigods.


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## mmadsen (Jul 12, 2002)

If you want to emulate the saints and Christian heroes of medieval Europe, the supernatural abilities they routinely displayed would be healing, removing diseases, removing curses, and dispelling fiendish illusions -- often with a simple touch, and never, of course, with any notion of prepared spells, _M_ spells of _N_th level per day, etc.  For the most part, they could expect to counter any diabolical magic through their faith in God.


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