# Best Reach Weapon



## kitcik (Jun 10, 2011)

What is the best reach weapon in 3.5? 

Take into account anything you want:
 - length of reach
 - damage & crits
 - ability to threaten adjacent & at reach
 - trip / disarm usability
 - weapon finesse usability
 - power attack usability
 - weight
 - one / two handed
 - type of damage
 - ease of gaining proficiency
 - etc.

If you select "other" please specify & give a reason. Non-WOTC is fine.


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## xigbar (Jun 10, 2011)

kitcik said:


> What is the best reach weapon in 3.5?
> 
> Take into account anything you want:
> - length of reach
> ...




A good reach weapon, for me, is one that you can hit with at a distance and in front of you. Spiked Chain is nice. I once had Goliath with a Huge FullBlade, which was lots of fun.


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## kitcik (Jun 10, 2011)

I just posted this in [MENTION=94031]iamtheend[/MENTION] 's Sun School thread, which is what inspired the poll:

If you're going to argue for proficiency with a reach weapon, try the Kusari Gama. 

Pages 144-145 of DMG

- has 10' reach
- 1d6 damage (20/x2)
- weighs only 3lb
- threatens adjacent and reach squares
- can be used for trip / disarm attacks
- eligible for weapon finesse


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## Greenfield (Jun 10, 2011)

The list of considerations pretty much screamed "Spiked Chain".

Attack near and far?  Check.
Weapon Finesse?  Check.
Power Attack? Check.
Trip?  Check.
Disarm?  Check.

The down side is that it's exotic.  Other than that it's about as good as it gets.

Whip is the only reach weapon I know of that's longer, and it's actually treated more like a ranged weapon.


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## Empirate (Jun 10, 2011)

Get _the Guisarme_! The _Guisarme_ is a reach weapon that _trips_! The Guisarme is a reach weapon that's _two-handed_, for all your Power Attack _power needs_! You want to attack close by? Get a _Guisarme_, and get _Armor Spikes_!
The _Guisarme _comes with a built-in _bonus feat_ that even the _Spiked Chain_ doesn't provide! And the best of all? That _bonus feat_ can be anything you like and _qualify for_. With the _bonus feat_ from the _Guisarme_, you'll have so many _bonus feats_ that you'll not even know what to _spend them all on_!
You want Law Devotion? Take it as a _bonus feat_! You want Stand Still? Take it as a _bonus feat_! You want Defensive Sweep? Martial Study? Hell, you want Weapon Focus? Take it as a _bonus feat_! Prereqs to fulfill? _BONUS FEAT!_ And all because of the _Guisarme_, the best reach weapon _there is_! _Guisarme_! Get one now! Get three! _GUISARME!_


To me, the Guisarme is the obvious best, with Spiked Chain as a  runner-up. You want two-handed goodness for damage, you want trip, and  most of all, you want to keep it *martial*.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 11, 2011)

Though I don't use it for all my reach builds, my favorite is the Greatspear.  2d6 x3, Reach, RI 10' out of the box.  As of CompAdv (as I recall), it works with feats taken for use with other spears, so you don't need to double up.  Add feats like Monkey Grip (or the Powerful Build attribute), size boosting powers, as well as weapon enchantments (Returning, extended range, things like Fiery, Shocking, bane, etc.) and it gets ugly fast.

Other faves: the Kusari-Gama, the Bisento (a 1d12 martial weapon from a Rokugan sourcebook).


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## Greenfield (Jun 11, 2011)

Empirate said:


> Get _the Guisarme_! The _Guisarme_ is a reach weapon that _trips_! The Guisarme is a reach weapon that's _two-handed_, for all your Power Attack _power needs_! You want to attack close by? Get a _Guisarme_, and get _Armor Spikes_!
> The _Guisarme _comes with a built-in _bonus feat_ that even the _Spiked Chain_ doesn't provide! And the best of all? That _bonus feat_ can be anything you like and _qualify for_. With the _bonus feat_ from the _Guisarme_, you'll have so many _bonus feats_ that you'll not even know what to _spend them all on_!
> You want Law Devotion? Take it as a _bonus feat_! You want Stand Still? Take it as a _bonus feat_! You want Defensive Sweep? Martial Study? Hell, you want Weapon Focus? Take it as a _bonus feat_! Prereqs to fulfill? _BONUS FEAT!_ And all because of the _Guisarme_, the best reach weapon _there is_! _Guisarme_! Get one now! Get three! _GUISARME!_
> 
> To me, the Guisarme is the obvious best, with Spiked Chain as a  runner-up. You want two-handed goodness for damage, you want trip, and  most of all, you want to keep it *martial*.



Um, from the SRD:


> Guisarme: A guisarme has reach. You can strike opponents 10 feet  away with it, but you can’t use it against an adjacent foe.  You can  also use it to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own  trip attempt, you can drop the guisarme to avoid being tripped.



What bonus feat are you talking about?  There's nothing like that mentioned anywhere.


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## iamtheend (Jun 11, 2011)

Greenfield I believe he is talking about not spending it on Exotic Weapon Proficiency.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 11, 2011)

Empirate said:


> And the best of all? That _bonus feat_ can be anything you like and _qualify for_. With the _bonus feat_ from the _Guisarme_, you'll have so many _bonus feats_ that you'll not even know what to _spend them all on_!



Bonus Feat?

Oh. nevermind, I should have read further.


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## Empirate (Jun 11, 2011)

iamtheend said:


> Greenfield I believe he is talking about not spending it on Exotic Weapon Proficiency.




Exactly. The Spiked Chain is the only weapon I'd spend a feat on, but I'd rather save it and use a weapon that's already good.


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## Jimlock (Jun 11, 2011)

Although i voted for spiked chain... I perhaps like the long spear more, now that i think of it. I agree with Dannyalcatraz.


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## anest1s (Jun 11, 2011)

_Guissarme

My 3rd favorite weapon (after Falchion and Shortsword)

No wonder its the only one __ in the pool __written with italics. 
Because its easy to get and good to use.
_


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jun 13, 2011)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Though I don't use it for all my reach builds, my favorite is the Greatspear.  2d6 x3, Reach, RI 10' out of the box.  As of CompAdv (as I recall), it works with feats taken for use with other spears, so you don't need to double up.  Add feats like Monkey Grip (or the Powerful Build attribute), size boosting powers, as well as weapon enchantments (Returning, extended range, things like Fiery, Shocking, bane, etc.) and it gets ugly fast.




Not bad, though the Dwarven Warpike (Races of Stone) is also an exotic reach weapon.   It hads 2d6 damage, ability to trip, can be set against charging for x2 damage, x3 crit, can do slashing or piercing damage, and...if you've got a DM who allows the text from C.Warrior (iirc) about swapping racial weapon proficiencies, may not even cost a feat for you to obtain.

If having spear feats already is the issue, just dip Warblade for Weapon Aptitude or ask to use the retraining rules in PHB 2.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 13, 2011)

> If having spear feats already is the issue, just dip Warblade for Weapon Aptitude or ask to use the retraining rules in PHB 2.




The spear feats thing was this: according to CompAdv p116, if you already have taken the WeapFoc & Specialization feats (and Greater versions) specifically for the longspear, their benefits apply to the Greatspear as well.  That's all I was getting at.

As for the rest, the greatspear is also x3 on crits, and while RAW, it doesn't do double damage set against a charge (that language is absent from it's entry), I suspect that since it's just a spear with an oversized head and all other spears (including the aforementioned longspear with which it shares feat overlap) have that language, that its absence is a typo.  DM's call, though.


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## Empirate (Jun 13, 2011)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> Not bad, though the Dwarven Warpike (Races of Stone) is also an exotic reach weapon.   It hads 2d6 damage, ability to trip, can be set against charging for x2 damage, x3 crit, can do slashing or piercing damage, and...if you've got a DM who allows the text from C.Warrior (iirc) about swapping racial weapon proficiencies, may not even cost a feat for you to obtain.
> 
> If having spear feats already is the issue, just dip Warblade for Weapon Aptitude or ask to use the retraining rules in PHB 2.




Wow. Races of Stone was already way out there among the "supplements nobody thought to balance before publishing", as it contained so many OP things (viz. Whispergnome, Runesmith, Shadowcraft Mage...). Now we can add a weapon for good measure.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jun 13, 2011)

If...you think those things are OP...you clearly haven't read many supplements.  Or even core primary casters' spell lists...

All those things are good (actually have no experience w/ Runesmith, but I'll just take your word that it's awesome), but far from broken.  Shadowcraft Mage can get ridiculous with the right cheese, I will grant.  Otherwise it's just a very varied caster with some annoying hindrances (by RAW, not sure you can access shadow spells outside of material, shadow, etheral, and possibly astral planes) and hefty feat requirements.


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## Empirate (Jun 13, 2011)

One of the things to make Shadowcraft Mage so ridiculous is Earth Spell, which is conveniently found in the same book...

On the lack of balance thing: sure, compared to Gate or Time Stop, a weapon will never be overpowered. So let's just say, it isn't balanced well against the other weapons out there. Weapons, at least, used to be a part of the game that was viable, balance-wise. But the thing you described is better than the Spiked Chain, which is already the best Exotic Weapon out there.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jul 7, 2011)

For some reason, never noticed your reply.

The warpike gets no disarm bonus, it can't also hit adjacent, and it can't be finessed (I don't consider that last one worth anything at all...you 2H something to get str x 1.5 and PA afterall, but may as well mention it).  It's one of the only exotic weapons about equal to the spiked chain, and thus worth a feat.  I don't think it's better, though.

And basic Shadowcraft Mage using Earth and Heighten Spell isn't broken, just versatile.  You can summon stuff that's mostly real and use damage spells pretty much spontaneously.  Big deal.  Gets cheesy if you abuse the Conj. Creation spells balanced by having an expensive material component often.  And gets broken when you use dirty tricks like Arcane Disciple for Wish.


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## Empirate (Jul 7, 2011)

Even just adding in some levels of Shadowcaster (the PrC from Underdark, not the horrible base class from ToM) makes all your shadow illusions hyper-real. So real you want the other guys to fail their save. I consider that broken. And Arcane Disciple for Miracle isn't exactly way out there - it's in a common and well-known book, and it is used quite often as a way to broaden spell lists. It's not the individual component that makes Shadowcraft Mage broken, it's the combination. But the two core ingredients, especially Earth Spell (which allows 9th level spells, after all), are in Races of Stone.

You may be right about the weapon, though. Spending a feat IS a heavy cost just for using a better weapon, which I myself had been pointing out earlier in this thread, ironically enough. Consider me convinced on that one (unless you're a Dwarf and it doesn't cost you a feat!).


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, Dwarves are broken already, so them getting a weapon equivalent in power to a spiked chain w/o a feat is just icing on the cake.


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