# LOST Wednesday 10/12/05 9 p.m. EDT



## Cutter XXIII (Oct 12, 2005)

> Next Episode:
> Wednesday, Oct. 12, 9/8c
> *"Everybody Hates Hugo"*
> 
> Disturbing memories from Hurley's past cause him to struggle with a task he's assigned inside the hatch. Meanwhile Sawyer, Michael and Jin discover the identities of their captors, and Claire uncovers a shocking piece of information about the fate of the raft.




The wife and I are fully hooked on this show now. "Everything's going to change."


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## ThirdWizard (Oct 12, 2005)

I don't hate Hugo. Heh, hillarious, sounds like he's going to be in charge of inputing the numbers.


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## KaosDevice (Oct 12, 2005)

Yay! Another Hurley episode is always a good thing. I think the producers are starting to pick up that Big H is a fan favorite.   Dude cracks me up.


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## Crothian (Oct 12, 2005)

So, will the identies of the captors be the other people from the plane or something else??


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## Cutter XXIII (Oct 12, 2005)

My current personal theory is that the captors are from the tail section.

How'd they go all Lord of the Flies in 44 days? Well, that's the thing: if you're being constantly attacked, you might go Lord of the Flies quite quickly. If you're feeling relatively safe, you might not. More Skinner experiments; nature vs. nurture.


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## Dagger75 (Oct 12, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> My current personal theory is that the captors are from the tail section.
> 
> How'd they go all Lord of the Flies in 44 days? Well, that's the thing: if you're being constantly attacked, you might go Lord of the Flies quite quickly. If you're feeling relatively safe, you might not. More Skinner experiments; nature vs. nurture.




Took 3 days in the real world, 44 days is a long time.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 12, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, will the identies of the captors be the other people from the plane or something else??




My vote is the captors are the survivors from the tail section.


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## Crothian (Oct 12, 2005)

I agree, and it doesn't take but a few people to go Lord of the Flies.  you could easily have the dominant people try to cease control that way.


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## fett527 (Oct 12, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> My vote is the captors are the survivors from the tail section.



My feelings exactly.

Thanks for starting the thread Cutter, been busy today.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 12, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> My current personal theory is that the captors are from the tail section.
> 
> How'd they go all Lord of the Flies in 44 days? Well, that's the thing: if you're being constantly attacked, you might go Lord of the Flies quite quickly. If you're feeling relatively safe, you might not. More Skinner experiments; nature vs. nurture.




I rewatched last weeks episode on Saturday night and it showed a different preview than the one on Wednesday night.
[sblock]It showed Ana Lucia leading Sawyer and the others through the jungle and coming up to a crude door then they were walking down a tunnel.  You a bigger cave like room with a blonde wonman in it.Sawyer says something like "I thought you said there were 23?" And a womans response of "There _were_ 23." [/sblock]
It also showed Hurley in the pantry and Charlie accusing him. As well Jin's whole I speak english now scene.


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## Dubya (Oct 12, 2005)

I don't think so.  I read a post on another board that the bearded guy that took Walt is Kelvin.  I think that the people on the boat are the people from the other bunkers.  Kelvin is not dead like Des thinks.  As for why they want Walt I don't know.

sorry I just realized that you were talking about the other captors.  my post still applies to the others tho.
Dubya


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 12, 2005)

Yeah I agree that the people on the boat at the end of Season 1 were the Others. 

The people that captured Sawyer, Mike and Jin are the tail section survivors. The way I explained it my fiance was, to the viewer there are two goups of others
Group 1 is native to the island
Group 2 are the survivors from the tail section.

The original survivors think everyone in the tail section died, hence anyone they run into must be the evil others(natives). Same goes for the tail section survivors, they they're the only ones to live through the crash and anyone else they run into must be evil others(natives).


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 13, 2005)

The captors may be tail sectioners, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that their leader ("Shaft") is one of the Nigerian drugrunners.  That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2005)

That's a good possibility.


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## fett527 (Oct 13, 2005)

I loved the Hurley background stuff.  I really like this method of storytelling.


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## fett527 (Oct 13, 2005)

First question that comes to mind is could anybody make out the symbol in the cave where the tail section survivors were?  Looked like another symbol.  One of the other facilities or the other side of the same one?


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## shaylon (Oct 13, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I loved the Hurley background stuff.  I really like this method of storytelling.




Yeah Hurley is one of the background stories I like too.

Didn't really feel like we learned much tonight, but then again, do we ever?  I got about 30 viewing hours in this thing and I am still waiting for something "Big" to happen.

-Shay


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2005)

A happy episode!!  I was not depressing and suspenseful, it was almost uplifting and nice.    THe tail end people are not complete asses, learning the Bernad (rose's husband) is really alive was cool and a very good scene, and Hurley and the food problem was very well done.


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## fett527 (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm very interested in the story behind the tail section survivors that's for sure.


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I'm very interested in the story behind the tail section survivors that's for sure.




Fromn the scenes from next week I'd guess they are close to the Others and have been not welcomed by them.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 13, 2005)

So, how many garden gnomes does it take to spell out CLUCK YOU!


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

It also looks like the two groups come together next week.


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## RigaMortus2 (Oct 13, 2005)

I was happy to see DJ Qualls in the show.  He was hilarious in Road Trip 

My one complaint with this show is that EVERYONE is sooooo secrative.  Sure, everyone has a past, and I might expect a few people to be secretive (Kate and Sawyer for example).  But why would Hurly not come out right away as soon as he noticed the numbers (back in season 1)?  Why hasn't Locke said anything about him previously being in a wheelchair?  I mean, these are things I don't see why they are hiding from other people.

Regarding this episode...  What were Jack and Sayeed doing below the bunker?  I didn't quite understand what they were looking for or why they decided to go down there.


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2005)

There is a door or something that is blocked byt a lot of concrete and they went below to try go under it but they were unable to.

That's one thing I really liked about the episode it actually showed people xploring and looking around.


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## Dagger75 (Oct 13, 2005)

I liked this episode.  Its wierd nothing was really revealed and there were no other big surprises other than the tail section people.  It was one of the more enjoyable episodes.  Hurley is very cool, and I like how they basically had one big party with the food.  Very good idea.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> I liked this episode.  Its wierd nothing was really revealed and there were no other big surprises other than the tail section people.  It was one of the more enjoyable episodes.  Hurley is very cool, and I like how they basically had one big party with the food.  Very good idea.




I kept expecting to see ewoks start dancing around the bonfires


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 13, 2005)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> I was happy to see DJ Qualls in the show.  He was hilarious in Road Trip



You should see him in the New Guy    He was the prefect Hugo side-kick!


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## WayneLigon (Oct 13, 2005)

Interesting that the Tail Section People found one of the other bunkers. So that's two of three. The Dharma Intiative symbol is different, and possibly matches the one on the shark.

Sayid's hypothesis: geothermal power. Cool. After his comment about Chernobyl, though... could it be an atomic pile? How long can something like that run without constant human intervention? Maybe that's what the button does; limit the reaction time? That would seem... very Baroque, though. Or maybe whatever did that was broken and wossname before Desmond rigged up the button-thingie? Or maybe it utilizes the island magnetic anomoly? That might be doable, since you make electricity by spinning something in a magnetic feild.

Boy, now I'm glad Hugo's mom snapped her ankle like a twig. 

I was waiting for the meteor to strike the Kluk Hut. 

"Stay gold, Ponyboy", what Hugo's friend says to him; from The Outsiders, refers to a poem called 'Nothing Gold Can Stay'. Interesting reaction he has to Hugo's winning the lottery. Maybe because he can see he won and didn't tell him right away? 

And Hurley's old boss Randy became Locke's boss at the box factory, and was still a loser.


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## Just_Hal (Oct 13, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> I liked this episode.  Its wierd nothing was really revealed and there were no other big surprises other than the tail section people.  It was one of the more enjoyable episodes.  Hurley is very cool, and I like how they basically had one big party with the food.  Very good idea.





I agree, now post on the pbp thread and let us get to some killin'


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

I was just on ABC site. They show the first few minutes of tonights episode. If you pause the video at 55 seconds take a look and see who's picture is on the milk carton Hurley was drinking from.
ABC Lost

Answer[sblock]Walt[/sblock]


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## Banshee16 (Oct 13, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> My current personal theory is that the captors are from the tail section.
> 
> How'd they go all Lord of the Flies in 44 days? Well, that's the thing: if you're being constantly attacked, you might go Lord of the Flies quite quickly. If you're feeling relatively safe, you might not. More Skinner experiments; nature vs. nurture.




Doesn't take 44 days.  Look at the Stanford Prison Experiment among others, to show how quickly social roles and people's perceptions of each other can change, with far flimsier motivation than fighting for your life on a deserted island.

My question is.....what happened to the Others?  There were 23 survivors.  It isn't answered in the episode.  Are Sawyer, Michael, and Jin infected with something?  Is something else going on?

Looks like showing Jin speaking English in the trailer last week as a red herring..

Banshee


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## Banshee16 (Oct 13, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> A happy episode!!  I was not depressing and suspenseful, it was almost uplifting and nice.    THe tail end people are not complete asses, learning the Bernad (rose's husband) is really alive was cool and a very good scene, and Hurley and the food problem was very well done.




Regarding the food....if Desmond's been on the island for years, and others have been punching that switch for years, why is there only enough food for one man for 3 months?  Either the whole thing is a misunderstanding and the button does nothing, whoever's responsible for maintaining the place has died out, so supply's aren't being restocked, or someone's coming to bring more food...

Banshee


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## Banshee16 (Oct 13, 2005)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> I was happy to see DJ Qualls in the show.  He was hilarious in Road Trip
> 
> My one complaint with this show is that EVERYONE is sooooo secrative.  Sure, everyone has a past, and I might expect a few people to be secretive (Kate and Sawyer for example).  But why would Hurly not come out right away as soon as he noticed the numbers (back in season 1)?  Why hasn't Locke said anything about him previously being in a wheelchair?  I mean, these are things I don't see why they are hiding from other people.
> 
> Regarding this episode...  What were Jack and Sayeed doing below the bunker?  I didn't quite understand what they were looking for or why they decided to go down there.




I was wondering that last week too.  Jack doesn't believe in Locke and the numbers.  But Jack might come to realize the possibility that something weird is going on if Locke admitted he used to be paralyzed.

They were trying to find out what was on the other side of the concrete door, and decided to see if they could go under it.

As to Jin's wife (can't remember her name), I suspect she didn't tell anyone about the bottle.....it's kind of a dangerous find.  If the other survivors learn about it, they'll know (falsely) that the ones who left on the raft are dead and may lose hope.

Banshee


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## WayneLigon (Oct 13, 2005)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> But why would Hurly not come out right away as soon as he noticed the numbers (back in season 1)?  Why hasn't Locke said anything about him previously being in a wheelchair?  I mean, these are things I don't see why they are hiding from other people.




Take a step back and look at how they sound? They sound crazy.

Hurly has said straight out about him winning the lottery, which is not something beyond the bounds of possibility, and people still don't think he's telling the truth. If he started spouting things about 'the numbers he got from a crazy guy when he himself was in a mental institution', then everyone would behave like Jack did when Hurly told him: they'd think he was crazy.

Same with Locke. It's not _unheard of _ for people with certain types of injuries to regain the ability to be fully functional but it certainly stretches the bounds of reason. Jack might be the only person to beleive such a thing because he's witnessed it himself, but no-one else might.


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## ThirdWizard (Oct 13, 2005)

Hurley probably thinks everyone would think he's crazy, spouting off about the bad luck and evilness of the numbers. He also doesn't want anyone to know he's fabulously wealthy. They might start making The Millionaire jokes or something. Besides, you saw Charlie's reaction. 

Locke probably thinks Jack wouldn't believe him about being paralyzed, and probably righfully so. Locke hated his life, so its doubtful he'd bring it up, but if asked he'd probably be honest about it, as he was with Boone. He likes making up antecdotes that never happened, though, to explain points. I think that's old man syndrome, though.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 13, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Interesting that the Tail Section People found one of the other bunkers. So that's two of three.



Where do you get three? The film indicated six.


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## aceofgames (Oct 13, 2005)

Just got over my usual "what the hell"s I go through every time I see an episode now.

Well first, iTunes now is selling episodes of TV shows, without commercials.  They cost about $1.99.  The first three episodes of the second season are already available.  

I personally believe that the tail section people are cannibals.  They hide the three they captured to clean up the mess, afraid that the three will notice (no others involvement).  Why? That theory goes its own way.
The other theory, the others involvement theory, is clear; the Others haven't accepted the remaining members of tail section or did something to the rest of them, or what not.
Either way, awesome episode all around.


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## Steverooo (Oct 13, 2005)

I loved Hurley (and his mom)!  Great episode!

Nice to see Shannon becoming a Human Being, sharing her food with Vincent.  Hopefully, she will become less irritating, and learn to do something useful!  

So why didn't Hurley show Rose the washer & dryer?  I thought that that was what he took her there for; to help with the wash?  Seems that he never got to that...

And locke, playing with the guns?  No one even asked why?  I found that pretty strange!

So was that Kate in the Chicken-Suit?  I couldn't tell.  Weird!...

I guess next week, we get to learn more about The Udders... and Anna Lucia, Libby, Bernard, and company!...


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## Steverooo (Oct 13, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Yay! Another Hurley episode is always a good thing. I think the producers are starting to pick up that Big H is a fan favorite.   Dude cracks me up.




I think they copped to that during his screen test.  He originally tested for another role (Sawyer's?), and they had to create a role for him, just to keep him on the show!...


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## Steverooo (Oct 13, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> It also looks like the two groups come together next week.




WHICH two groups?!?


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## Steverooo (Oct 13, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> There is a door or something that is blocked byt a lot of concrete and they went below to try go under it but they were unable to.
> 
> That's one thing I really liked about the episode it actually showed people xploring and looking around.




And that tunnel they were in?  Was it a railway tunnel?  Where does it go?  Does it connect to the other five bases on the island?  Is the "Security System" running around, down there?

And what happened to Rouseau?  She blew up her shelter, last season, and hasn't been seen in this one...  So where did she go?  Why did she disappear?  Did The Others/Udders get her?  If so, why?


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## Steverooo (Oct 13, 2005)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> Regarding the food....if Desmond's been on the island for years, and others have been punching that switch for years, why is there only enough food for one man for 3 months?  Either the whole thing is a misunderstanding and the button does nothing, whoever's responsible for maintaining the place has died out, so supply's aren't being restocked, or someone's coming to bring more food...




OR The Others are bringing in food, up that railway tunnel, from time to time...  OR The X Factor (something we haven't thought of, yet)!

Personally, I think Desmond is part of the experimental control, and WASN'T there as long as he claimed!  Even if that room had originally been packed FULL of food, there's no way it would have lasted two men 540 days!  (I could tell that as soon as we first saw it!)

So, somebody's lying.  I say it's Desmond, and Calvin never existed.  Just hafta wait and see...


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 13, 2005)

My DVR decided to cut out in the middle of the preview for next week's episode.  What does it show?


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 13, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Interesting that the Tail Section People found one of the other bunkers. So that's two of three. The Dharma Intiative symbol is different, and possibly matches the one on the shark.



In the film at the begining, it states there are 6 stations, each station has a name, the swan was station 3.


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## Aryoche (Oct 13, 2005)

The group from the tail section didnt seem to be doing real well ("there were 23"). And I can't help but wonder about the button. What if pressing the button every 108 minutes prevents something from happening in one of the other sites, opposed to the one our heroes are in?

That would put a new twist on Skinner's box.


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## fett527 (Oct 13, 2005)

At this point I readily believe that Walt's message to Shannon was in reference to the computer.  They keep talking about "pushing the button" and Walt warns Shannon against pushing the button.


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## fett527 (Oct 13, 2005)

Cleaned up image of the Dharma symbol from the Tail Section survivors:

http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=otherdharma7kn.jpg


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## fett527 (Oct 13, 2005)

Interesting theory that the 108 minutes may be related to a satellite orbit:

http://www.uen.org/swan/argos.html

Interesting that this particular satellite helps to track swans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> WHICH two groups?!?



Tail section people looks like they will meet the fuselage people


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 13, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Cleaned up image of the Dharma symbol from the Tail Section survivors:
> 
> http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=otherdharma7kn.jpg




Looks like an arrow


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## WizarDru (Oct 13, 2005)

Not sure why folks think we didn't learn anything this episode...I thought we learned a great deal.  It may be anticlimactic for some, since much of the info revealed in this episode was stuff we'd guessed or surmised...but a lot of data was put-out there this time out.

The Swan is possibly powered by geo-thermal energy; but whatever the center source was, it requires heavy, heavy shielding.  This shows a huge amount of work unneccesary for the bunker to be a simple sociological test. 

There were 23 survivors from the tail section, but clearly their numbers are fewer, now.  It's clear now that Michelle Rodriguez's character is the leader...but what is unclear is what happened to the other survivors and whether or not she is a strong leader or a dictator.  This paints her intial contact with Jack in a different light...a contrast to the conflict that's coming between them, I suspect.  Most likely I suspect that their mistrust comes from an encounter with Ethan's Others...an encounter that proved deadly.  Clearly, they have reason to be suspicious of strangers and are in defense mode (traps, cages, fear of nightfall and secret access knocks).

Shannon has, for the first time EVAR, done something positive.

The Survivors have been organizing duties and jobs, like any tribe.  While we generally see them idly involved in simple activities, they appear to be settling in for the long-haul.

Rose's husband is alive...and white, obviously to some folks suprise. 

Have the tail section survivors encountered the Monster?  I'm guessing they probably have, too.

The Bunker supposedly contained three months worth of food and supplies for two men; that implies a lot, if true.

The tail section survivors appear to have found an access tunnel or an entry to a bunker (the arrow?).  This confims that there are more facilities on the island, and lends credence to the theory that Rosseau has seen the central facility.

There are now three Dharma symbols; The Swam, The Arrow (?) and the Cross(?).  Assuming there is one for each 'button bunker', is there one for the guessed-at central facility?  Is there one for other locations or divisions as yet unknown?

Cluck You.  Heh.  That was teh funney.


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## dravot (Oct 13, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> And that tunnel they were in?  Was it a railway tunnel?  Where does it go?  Does it connect to the other five bases on the island?  Is the "Security System" running around, down there?



It looks like it's just a utility tunnel leading to the bunker proper.  I'll bet that Bunker 3 is set up the same way.


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## WizarDru (Oct 13, 2005)

dravot said:
			
		

> It looks like it's just a utility tunnel leading to the bunker proper.  I'll bet that Bunker 3 is set up the same way.




Do you think they haven't managed to get in?  They sure weren't listening to Mama Cass while riding the exercise-bike.  

Side note: all the easter eggs in the show just make me giddy.  I hadn't even realized that Hurley's boss and Locke's boss were the same until someone pointed it out.  The six-degrees-of-sepearation principle is running wild on this show.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> There are now three Dharma symbols; The Swam, The Arrow (?) and the Cross(?).  Assuming there is one for each 'button bunker', is there one for the guessed-at central facility?  Is there one for other locations or divisions as yet unknown?




I missed the cross where was that one found?


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## Cutter XXIII (Oct 13, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> There are now three Dharma symbols; The Swam, The Arrow (?) and the Cross(?).  Assuming there is one for each 'button bunker', is there one for the guessed-at central facility?  Is there one for other locations or divisions as yet unknown?






			
				Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I missed the cross where was that one found?




I missed the cross too, but if it really is a cross, there's FOUR symbols now.

The shark's-tail logo a few episodes ago had a black circle in the center, with a white line bisecting it.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 13, 2005)

Random thoughts: 

Was the blonde woman with the tail group the same as the one in the picture with Desmond, I think so, which makes me wonder if she is not an infiltrator, much like Ethan was, mmmmm.  We don't know her relationship to anyone!


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## Rel (Oct 13, 2005)

Another interesting episode.  There was one thing that I caught that I haven't seen mentioned here but I found very compelling.

Hurley is shown to be dozing off at his post where he's supposed to enter the numbers and "push the button".  This is quite clearly the "job" that he's been assigned for the moment (until they put him in charge of the food).

Shortly thereafter they show the flashback of him finally getting up the nerve to ask out the girl in the music store.  He tells her that he quit his job and she comments back something like, "Hugo, you're my rock.  If you quit your *job*, next thing you know the bees will stop making honey, flowers will die and the whole damn thing will fall apart."  Hmmmm.

Also in that scene, his buddy is going on about how Hurley is "off the rails" and "somebody get this man a straightjacket!"  Since we know that Hurley has already been in a mental institution prior to that, he's either kept that a secret (very reasonable) or his friend is a bit of an insenstive ass (also reasonable).


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## WizarDru (Oct 13, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> I missed the cross too, but if it really is a cross, there's FOUR symbols now.
> 
> The shark's-tail logo a few episodes ago had a black circle in the center, with a white line bisecting it.




Yup, that was me mis-remembering.  I was thinking of the shark logo, and for some reason thought cross.  I have no idea why.  There is no cross logo...so far.


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## MaxKaladin (Oct 13, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> Hurley probably thinks everyone would think he's crazy, spouting off about the bad luck and evilness of the numbers. He also doesn't want anyone to know he's fabulously wealthy. They might start making The Millionaire jokes or something. Besides, you saw Charlie's reaction.



When Charlie made that crack again last night, I was thinking that I really hope we get to see them get back to civilization just to see the look on Charlie's face when he finds out Hurley really is a multimillionaire.


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## MaxKaladin (Oct 13, 2005)

About what Jack and Sayid were doing:  I think they're doing just what I would be doing.  They're trying to figure out what is going on with the bunker, including what happens if you don't press the button every 108 minutes.


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## WayneLigon (Oct 13, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Where do you get three? The film indicated six.




Really? I just mis-remembered, then. Cool.

Hmm. I'd forgotten totally about Walt's warning about the button. 

And the other station... I wonder if it has a button, and if so.. are they pressing it? Maybe that's why the place seems to have no lights or power?


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## Cutter XXIII (Oct 13, 2005)

I'll tell you one thing...The Dharma Initiative is not the bottom of this mystery. We've got three of six logos after 4 episodes of 24. I think we'll get to the bottom of Dharma this season. Theory: Alvar Hanso is cryogenically frozen in the main Dharma lab.

This mystery is huge, and has been going on for longer than 30 years. Theory: The Island is a fragment of a huge crashed spaceship (and the spaceship may itself be the alien lifeform).

I read that someone did a photo comparison, and believes that the bearded guy on the boat who took Walt is the same actor as played Mr. DeGroot in the Orientation film. This lends credence to the "central lab" theory if it's true.

And here's the mind-blower from last night:
http://lost.cubit.net/pics/waltMissing.jpg

And in case anyone wants to revisit it, "Don't press the button. The button's bad."

This show is looking more like _The Prisoner_ every episode...


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## WayneLigon (Oct 13, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> And here's the mind-blower from last night:
> http://lost.cubit.net/pics/waltMissing.jpg




OK, now that's messed up. I thought previous mentions to the milk carton were like in Hugo's house - I figured it meant that at some point, Mike kidnapped Walt, even though it would seem very unlikely given what we've seen so far. But that...? Oh, wait, Jin's there so that's in Hugo's dream/vision/whatever. Might be just some.. weirdness related to that. 

I thought that was realy weird since all the packaging on the food is the same; there wouldn't be a MISSING label on any of them. And how would there even be milk down there, since it doesn't seem the locker is refrigerated; unless it was that irradiated stuff, and even then can you even _do _ that to milk and have it last? I'd think they would certainly have powdered milk.

But it was in his dream, so... hmm. Could be someone/something else trying to get a message across.


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## Rel (Oct 13, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> OK, now that's messed up. I thought previous mentions to the milk carton were like in Hugo's house - I figured it meant that at some point, Mike kidnapped Walt, even though it would seem very unlikely given what we've seen so far. But that...? Man.




While I can appreciate the detail, I don't really find it "mind blowing".  That was Hurley's dream and the only person that he would "miss" who went on the raft was Walt.  He used to spend a lot of time playing backgammon with him in the early episodes.  So he's "missing" Walt.


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## WayneLigon (Oct 13, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> While I can appreciate the detail, I don't really find it "mind blowing".  That was Hurley's dream and the only person that he would "miss" who went on the raft was Walt.  He used to spend a lot of time playing backgammon with him in the early episodes.  So he's "missing" Walt.




Yeah, I edited above having just realized that. Yeah, that explains it.


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## Rel (Oct 13, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Yeah, I edited above having just realized that. Yeah, that explains it.




I'm not suggesting that the fact that Walt is also "missing" isn't "ooooh"-worthy.  But in the broader scope of Lost weirdness, this doesn't make the top ten list.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> While I can appreciate the detail, I don't really find it "mind blowing".  That was Hurley's dream and the only person that he would "miss" who went on the raft was Walt.  He used to spend a lot of time playing backgammon with him in the early episodes.  So he's "missing" Walt.



We know Walt has powers, we know he appeared to Shannon. Maybe this is his way of appearing to Hurley.


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## fett527 (Oct 13, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> We know Walt has powers, we know he appeared to Shannon. Maybe this is his way of appearing to Hurley.




This is I could see and I like the idea of it.  Walt is reaching out the best he can.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> This is I could see and I like the idea of it.  Walt is reaching out the best he can.




To bad Hurley was to busy eating and speaking Korean to realize what was on the side of the milk carton.  :\


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## Rel (Oct 13, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> To bad Hurley was to busy eating and speaking Korean to realize what was on the side of the milk carton.  :\




Yeah, if he was really looking to get Hurley's attention then he should have had his likeness appear on a potato chip or in the nougat swirls of that Apollo bar.


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## Arnwyn (Oct 13, 2005)

MaxKaladin said:
			
		

> About what Jack and Sayid were doing:  I think they're doing just what I would be doing.  They're trying to figure out what is going on with the bunker, including what happens if you don't press the button every 108 minutes.



Yes, exactly so. When I saw them doing that, I was pleased. I thought it's what people _should_ be doing - exploring this weird-ass bunker in the middle of nowhere that has some crazy electromagnetic force behind a concrete-sealed doorway.

What was that mention of titanium when Jack showed Sayid the magnetic power? My impression is that Sayid noted that there was titanium along with the concrete, and that titanium is fairly non-magnetic - thus implying that whatever is causing the magnetism is crazy-powerful. (Can anyone confirm/deny/clarify?)

My theory of the tail section people is that they're a little jumpy because 'the Others' have been wiping them out. Lucky for the tail sectioners, they managed to find one of the bunkers and hole-up... it could have been a whole lot worse for them, I'm guessing.

Like WizarDru, I also disagree with anyone who thought not much happened in that episode.

Can't wait to see the central facility (where the broadcast was coming from, right?)!


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## RichCsigs (Oct 13, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> And in case anyone wants to revisit it, "Don't press the button. The button's bad."




Now you see, I thought he was saying "Press the button.  No button is bad."


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 13, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> What was that mention of titanium when Jack showed Sayid the magnetic power? My impression is that Sayid noted that there was titanium along with the concrete, and that titanium is fairly non-magnetic - thus implying that whatever is causing the magnetism is crazy-powerful. (Can anyone confirm/deny/clarify?)




I believe that Sayid was talking about the metal he was using to chip away at the concrete wall, that IMO looked like a car bumper.


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## Dragonbait (Oct 13, 2005)

*Sugar-rush at work while reading the MBs*

Loved seeing another Hurly episode.

Please excuse the lack of the proper names for the characters, and the mispellings. I'm writing this super fast..

Going back to the presumed tail-section survivors - There is another option: the virus that both the man in the bunker and the crazy French woman brought up.

Also, afterwatching the first episode, the "monster's" sounds was waaaay too close to something like a steam engine (steam whistle and all). I figured that a lot of people have already brought this up, but still.. And of course, the mysterious tentacle of smoke had a very clear chain/crank noise along with it.

I think the man in the chicken costume was the owner of the gas station where Hurly got the winning Lotto ticket.


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## ThirdWizard (Oct 13, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I believe that Sayid was talking about the metal he was using to chip away at the concrete wall, that IMO looked like a car bumper.




After talking it over, I'm fairly confident that he was talking about the key. He said somthing about being lucky, so if it were more magnetic, it might have choked Jack. Remember, the key is from a very very durable case. It would make sense for the key to also be very durable - ie, titanium.



			
				Dragonbait said:
			
		

> Also, afterwatching the first episode, the "monster's" sounds was waaaay too close to something like a steam engine (steam whistle and all). I figured that a lot of people have already brought this up, but still.. And of course, the mysterious tentacle of smoke had a very clear chain/crank noise along with it.




The shadow monster also made a kind of clicking sound. I can't remember what makes that sound, though its on the tip of my tongue. The sound of machinery turning and clicking into place to hold something up. I can't think of the right term, though.


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## Rel (Oct 13, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> After talking it over, I'm fairly confident that he was talking about the key. He said somthing about being lucky, so if it were more magnetic, it might have choked Jack.




Sayid specifically mentions that the chunk of metal that he's hammering at the concrete with is titanium, which, according to Sayid is largely non-ferrous.  I could go replay it off the DVR but from memory the comment is, "Luckily this *holds up big curved piece of metal* is titanium."


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2005)

Ya, I agree with Rel, he was talking about the peice of metal Sayid was using


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## Fast Learner (Oct 13, 2005)

Exactly, I'm with Rel and Croth, that's definitely what was said.

Airplanes are built with a lot of titanium, very hard and light. I'm sure the idea is that Sayid is using a hunk of the plane to thwack at the concrete. If he'd been using a piece of steel, it would have been ripped from his hands (or at least stuck to the wall the instant he came close with it), as Jack's steel key demonstrates.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 13, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> The shadow monster also made a kind of clicking sound.




I think it was a Cylon...


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## reveal (Oct 13, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Exactly, I'm with Rel and Croth, that's definitely what was said.
> 
> Airplanes are built with a lot of titanium, very hard and light. I'm sure the idea is that Sayid is using a hunk of the plane to thwack at the concrete. If he'd been using a piece of steel, it would have been ripped from his hands (or at least stuck to the wall the instant he came close with it), as Jack's steel key demonstrates.




I'm in agreement, which brings up another question. If the plane was made of mostly titanium, what caused the plane to rip apart? I thought, at first, that the magnet was somehow responsible. Not so anymore.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 13, 2005)

Planes do include some steel, just not as must steel as aluminium or titanium. Also, never under estimate the power of writers to trounce the laws of physics.


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2005)

Oh, I'm not really expecting the Physics to be perfect or even near that.  Heck, we had a smoke monster cause the engine to blow up in the first episode


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## Skrit (Oct 14, 2005)

About the Quote "I thought there were 23 of you?"

I believe it's true that something else killed them "others", the monster etc... But you could say "I didn't see any food in their run down bunker".. I highly doubt that's what happened but you never know


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## Banshee16 (Oct 14, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I was just on ABC site. They show the first few minutes of tonights episode. If you pause the video at 55 seconds take a look and see who's picture is on the milk carton Hurley was drinking from.
> ABC Lost
> 
> Answer[sblock]Walt[/sblock]




They changed the video...I saw it last night, but tried to show my fiancé tonight, but it had a much longer one, without the second, longer shot of the milk carton.  I wonder if this can still be found anywhere?

Banshee


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## Banshee16 (Oct 14, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> OR The Others are bringing in food, up that railway tunnel, from time to time...  OR The X Factor (something we haven't thought of, yet)!
> 
> Personally, I think Desmond is part of the experimental control, and WASN'T there as long as he claimed!  Even if that room had originally been packed FULL of food, there's no way it would have lasted two men 540 days!  (I could tell that as soon as we first saw it!)
> 
> So, somebody's lying.  I say it's Desmond, and Calvin never existed.  Just hafta wait and see...




That's very possible.  See what they do if we get them all jumped up on adrenaline thinking the world might end.  Would they take it on my authority and do something like push a button every 100 minutes or so for the rest of their lives?

Banshee


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## Dagger75 (Oct 14, 2005)

Another train of thought with there used to be 23 of us comment.  Cannalbism or is that to much of a taboo subject on pr1me time TV.   Just a thought.  I mean its been 44 days, and they have tried fishing but who knows.


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## Crothian (Oct 14, 2005)

Ya, I agree with Dagger75 on the cannalbism and prime time.  Plus I doubt they are going to make Rose's husband bad


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 14, 2005)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> They changed the video...I saw it last night, but tried to show my fiancé tonight, but it had a much longer one, without the second, longer shot of the milk carton.  I wonder if this can still be found anywhere?
> 
> Banshee




I tried to show a bunch of people at work who didn't believe, and had no video to back it up.  
Then some one posted a picture here and redemption was mine.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 14, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Exactly, I'm with Rel and Croth, that's definitely what was said.



What I get no props for bring it up. I see how it is Fast. I see.


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## fba827 (Oct 14, 2005)

Spoiler



I read on spoilerfix.com that one of the later episodes coming up soon will be the last 40-whatever days from the 'other survivors' perspective - what's happened to them, etc. for the time span of season 1 while we were watching the primary group from the front of the plane.



Also, slightly off question.. but it has become fairly obvious that all the characters have shady pasts or points in their life where they have had to question their moral convictions.  Presuming that is in fact a commonality between all survivors, I have to wonder what Rose's past is because she has been the grounding wise counsoling voice... so I'm just having trouble picturing her as someone that had to do something questioning her faith


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## David Howery (Oct 14, 2005)

I got a kick out of the scene where Jack walked in on Kate just as she was finishing up her shower and wrapping a towel around herself... the look on his face made me think he was thinking, "damn it, if I'd have been here two minutes earlier...."


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## Fast Learner (Oct 14, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> What I get no props for bring it up. I see how it is Fast. I see.



D'oh!


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## John Crichton (Oct 14, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I think it was a Cylon...



 I'm just glad people are starting to come around to my kind of thinking.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 14, 2005)

Of interest for the future, people who are now listed as stars in the opening credits (and therefore we're likely to see a lot of them), spoiled just in case (not really any spoilage to speak of):


Spoiler



Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje (the large black man, potentially Nigerian)
Michelle Rodriguez (Ana-Lucia)
Cynthia Watros (Libby)


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## Steverooo (Oct 14, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> The shadow monster also made a kind of clicking sound. I can't remember what makes that sound, though its on the tip of my tongue. The sound of machinery turning and clicking into place to hold something up. I can't think of the right term, though.




A hoist?  A jack?  (A TREBUCHET!)


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## Cthulhudrew (Oct 14, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Was the blonde woman with the tail group the same as the one in the picture with Desmond, I think so, which makes me wonder if she is not an infiltrator, much like Ethan was, mmmmm.  We don't know her relationship to anyone!




Someone posted a link to a blown up picture of Desmond and the blond woman in last week's thread, and it is clearly not Cynthia Watros (who plays the "blond woman" in this episode- I don't recall what she said to Michael- it sounded like her name- but she's named "Libby" at IMDB).


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 14, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Someone posted a link to a blown up picture of Desmond and the blond woman in last week's thread, and it is clearly not Cynthia Watros (who plays the "blond woman" in this episode- I don't recall what she said to Michael- it sounded like her name- but she's named "Libby" at IMDB).



She told Micheal her name was "Libby"


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## fett527 (Oct 14, 2005)

fba827 said:
			
		

> spoiler stuff that fba827 was to edit fom his post as well.  Thanks!




Ok this is not cool.  Not putting something from a site called *spoiler*fix.com in spoilers is definitely not cool.  We use these threads to debate what happened in the current and previous episodes and to debate and conjecture on what might happen.  NO SPOILERS FOR FUTURE EPISODES PLEASE!


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## Shag (Oct 14, 2005)

Don't know if this is well known or not, so sorry if this is old news.

http://thehansofoundation.org/
and
http://thehansofoundation.org/dharma.html 

I so far can't get the flash to load on the second one, but I suspect its just the Dharma briefing movie.


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## fett527 (Oct 14, 2005)

Shag said:
			
		

> Don't know if this is well known or not, so sorry if this is old news.
> 
> http://thehansofoundation.org/
> and
> ...




These were discussed at length after the previous episode.  But thanks for playing!


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## Cutter XXIII (Oct 14, 2005)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> They changed the video...I saw it last night, but tried to show my fiancé tonight, but it had a much longer one, without the second, longer shot of the milk carton.  I wonder if this can still be found anywhere?
> Banshee




Try my post on Page 2.



			
				fba827 said:
			
		

> I read on spoilerfix.com that
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How extremely uncool of you to say so.


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## fba827 (Oct 14, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Ok this is not cool.  Not putting something from a site called *spoiler*fix.com in spoilers is definitely not cool.  We use these threads to debate what happened in the current and previous episodes and to debate and conjecture on what might happen.  NO SPOILERS FOR FUTURE EPISODES PLEASE!




I didn't think it was an issue since I wasn't saying what was happening in the episode (i.e. I didn't say how or why anyone was in the situation they were in or what was going to happen to any character).  I just said the same synopsis that would have been posted about the episode in any tv guide/etc. But if you think it crossed a line, sorry.

I'll go ahead and edit my post - you'll want to edit your post that quotes me.


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## fett527 (Oct 14, 2005)

fba827 said:
			
		

> I didn't think it was an issue since I wasn't saying what was happening in the episode (i.e. I didn't say how or why anyone was in the situation they were in or what was going to happen to any character).  I just said the same synopsis that would have been posted about the episode in any tv guide/etc. But if you think it crossed a line, sorry.
> 
> I'll go ahead and edit my post - you'll want to edit your post that quotes me.




Thanks, I'll edit my post.  I stay away from everything that reports what will happen on future episodes.  I don't watch E! or Entertainment Tonight or read TV Guide.  The most I see is the little synopsis on ABC.com before the airing.  I prefer to go in blind if at all possible.


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## Crothian (Oct 14, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Thanks, I'll edit my post.  I stay away from everything that reports what will happen on future episodes.  I don't watch E! or Entertainment Tonight or read TV Guide.  The most I see is the little synopsis on ABC.com before the airing.  I prefer to go in blind if at all possible.




I'm the same way, I like to speculate what is going to happen but not actually wanting to know what will happen


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## KaosDevice (Oct 14, 2005)

Was there actually a fridge with perishables? If there is that would suggest that the bunker gets restocked fairly often.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 15, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Was there actually a fridge with perishables? If there is that would suggest that the bunker gets restocked fairly often.




I felt like the whole pantry was like a walk in fridge.


----------



## Cutter XXIII (Oct 15, 2005)

Has anyone seen a photo comparison of DeGroot and the bearded guy who took Walt?


----------



## Crothian (Oct 15, 2005)

Now we know that there are Sharks with symbols on them as part of this whole thing, was there any sign of sharks in the first season when the swimmer drowned?


----------



## ThirdWizard (Oct 15, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Now we know that there are Sharks with symbols on them as part of this whole thing, was there any sign of sharks in the first season when the swimmer drowned?




I watched it fairly recently, and they didn't say anything about sharks in that episode.


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## Cutter XXIII (Oct 15, 2005)

Okay, here's the DeGroot photo comparison. What do you think? To me the beard, the eyes and the shape of the nose look similar...and we're talking about 20-25 years later. It's the addition of the boat's driver that really makes me go _Hmmmmm_...

Check out who's driving the boat.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 15, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> Okay, here's the DeGroot photo comparison. What do you think? To me the beard, the eyes and the shape of the nose look similar...and we're talking about 20-25 years later. It's the addition of the boat's driver that really makes me go _Hmmmmm_...
> 
> Check out who's driving the boat.



 Well, there is a huge, huge spoiler over at IMDB that I just blundered into on this very subject.  But really, don't look unless you want to KNOW who took Walt.  Spoiler block, GO!

[sblock]I was looking under the IMDB entry for M.C. Gainey, the actor who played the Bearded Man who took Walt (and was most recently Rosco in the Dukes of Hazzard movie - they must have put a lot of makeup on this guy), and it says that he is credited in the next episode as Kelvin.  That would be Desmond's predecessor who Des claimed was dead.[/sblock]


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 15, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> Well, there is a huge, huge spoiler over at IMDB that I just blundered into on this very subject.  But really, don't look unless you want to KNOW who took Walt.  Spoiler block, GO!




IMDb is by far not the best place to find spoilers for shows, since it's all fan submitted.  For example, somebody posted on IMDb that Samuel L. Jackson would be playing Bernard in the first season finale as well as in the second season.  It was rapidly propagated as truth until someone finally owned up that it was a hoax.  So take what you read there with a grain of salt.


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 15, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> IMDb is by far not the best place to find spoilers for shows, since it's all fan submitted.  For example, somebody posted on IMDb that Samuel L. Jackson would be playing Bernard in the first season finale as well as in the second season.  It was rapidly propagated as truth until someone finally owned up that it was a hoax.  So take what you read there with a grain of salt.



 I don't know LightPhoenix.  My BS detector's usually pretty finely tuned, and right now it's not registering a blip.  I never bought that Samuel L. Jackson thing for a second, but this sounds way more plausible and adds to the mythology of the show.


----------



## Cutter XXIII (Oct 15, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler...I'm not going to read your spoiler. I'm still reveling in my keen powers of observation and superior cut-and-paste skills!


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 16, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> Okay, here's the DeGroot photo comparison. What do you think? To me the beard, the eyes and the shape of the nose look similar...and we're talking about 20-25 years later. It's the addition of the boat's driver that really makes me go _Hmmmmm_...
> 
> Check out who's driving the boat.




Where are his glasses though?


----------



## Cutter XXIII (Oct 16, 2005)

[fan wank]It was contact lenses or laser surgery, man![/fan wank]


----------



## ThirdWizard (Oct 16, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Where are his glasses though?




The island fixed his eyes! O_O *cue dramatic music*


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 16, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> [fan wank]It was contact lenses or laser surgery, man![/fan wank]




I have a good feeling you won't find a _Lense Crafters_ on the island. And he if he took them with him, did they have lenses in the earliy 80's? You can't make your pair of contacts last you 20+ years.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 16, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> The island fixed his eyes! O_O *cue dramatic music*



That is one possibility that I had not thought of. If it fixed Locke's legs, Eyes should be no problem at all.


----------

