# Spartacus - Blood & Sand



## catsclaw227 (Jan 24, 2010)

I just watched this DVR'd from Starz Network last night.

I really liked it.  Extremely violent, lots of blood and sex and lust, but done in style like 300 or Sin City.

Some of the blood splashing was pretty gratuitous, but it made me laugh (in a good way) while I was watching it.

The acting is good and there are some actors that I recognize -- most obviously, Lucretia's character played by Xena Warrior Princess. 

Did anyone else get a chance to see this?


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## Mark (Jan 24, 2010)

I watched some of it.  It has some fun stuff in it.  It's not "Rome" and it's not Xena's version of the Roman empire (later in the series) but somwhere in between with an obvious intention of utilizing the effects it has coopted from other recent violent movies.  Production values are, overall, fairly high.  The scripts are written toward someone's idea of intrigue and otherwise rather thin.  As you say, they tossed a little money toward casting, too, which helps because a good actor can often sell a poorly written line.  It's gritty and not to be taken too seriously but more watchable than the dramatizations that often get grafted onto modern documentaries.  It's currently available for free viewing through Netflix, so worth putting on in the background while you paint some minis or whatnot.


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## Ed_Laprade (Jan 24, 2010)

As they've made it clear that they have no interest in treating a historical person historically, I have no interest in *it*. (Won't watch 300 either, based on a comic book rather than history. Phah!)


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## Wycen (Jan 24, 2010)

I saw banner ads for it on one of these websites, but didn't click it was going to be showing on cable.  I suspose I'll try to catch it, except you said it was on Starz?  Since when did they try to show new stuff?  Must be another reason it didn't catch my attention.


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## Mark (Jan 24, 2010)

We know very little of Spartacus other than he was probably Thracian and possibly a Roman Auxiliary soldier who for some reason or other came to be at a gladitorial school and participated in an uprising out of which he emerged as one of a number of leaders, assured the most successful of them, and was later either among the dead or escaped after the defeat of the uprising.  If there is a historical beef to be had with the series it might be with the architecture, IMO, particularly regarding the size of the arena.


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## Mark (Jan 24, 2010)

Wycen said:


> I saw banner ads for it on one of these websites, but didn't click it was going to be showing on cable.  I suspose I'll try to catch it, except you said it was on Starz?  Since when did they try to show new stuff?  Must be another reason it didn't catch my attention.





I wonder if it was shown in the UK or elsewhere prior to coming here?


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## Mistwell (Jan 25, 2010)

catsclaw227 said:


> The acting is good




I am trying to find a way to disagree with you without being rude about it, while still getting across just how much I disagree with you.

I am failing at that task.  So, I guess I just can say that I thought the most of the acting (except for Lawless and Hannah) was extraordinarily poor.  As it well below most soap opera acting.  Some of it is truly horrid, particularly with some of the bit parts, and sometimes sounds like the actors are literally reading their lines.

The difference between this and, say, the acting in the "Rome" series, is so stark that I am at a complete failure to comprehend how I saw the same show as someone who says the acting was "good" overall.


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## catsclaw227 (Jan 25, 2010)

Mistwell said:


> So, I guess I just can say that I thought the most of the acting (except for Lawless and Hannah) was extraordinarily poor.  As it well below most soap opera acting.  Some of it is truly horrid, particularly with some of the bit parts, and sometimes sounds like the actors are literally reading their lines.
> 
> The difference between this and, say, the acting in the "Rome" series, is so stark that I am at a complete failure to comprehend how I saw the same show as someone who says the acting was "good" overall.



While I agree that Rome was superior (as HBO has VASTLY more experience with hard, original programming), I disagree that it was extraordinarily poor.  The acting was of a style that suited the style of the presentation.  It was supposed to be pulpy, soapy and existed to help drive the cinematics and the story.

I am also pretty sure that they aren't trying to redo a Rome, stylewise.  The budget wasn't anywhere close to Rome's.

Newsarama.com : Starz's "Spartacus" Mixes Blood, Sand, and CGI



			
				Article about Spartacus said:
			
		

> “We were both huge fans of “Rome” and we thought it was a staggeringly brilliant piece of work, but much like the Roman Empire it collapsed under its own weight,” DeKnight explains. “It was incredibly expensive. I’ve read a lot of stuff online that unfavorably compares us to “Rome” but there is no comparison. Our budget isn’t anywhere close. It’s the same with “300,” which if you crunched the numbers is twice our budget for a two-hour movie and we have 13 hours. We don’t have the budget to look like that or be as sumptuous as “Rome” and shoot in actual locations in Italy, which is a plus and minus. It forces us to be more inventive. I think people would actually be shocked at what this show actually costs compared to what it looks like.”


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## Steel_Wind (Jan 25, 2010)

It wasn't great and it wasn't bad. Given the dearth of things to watch these days, I'll probably watch it again.

The 300ish blood was just a wee over the top, mind you.


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## Mark (Jan 25, 2010)

catsclaw227 said:


> While I agree that Rome was superior (as HBO has VASTLY more experience with hard, original programming), I disagree that it was extraordinarily poor.  The acting was of a style that suited the style of the presentation.  It was supposed to be pulpy, soapy and existed to help drive the cinematics and the story.





It's not an acting problem, it's a directorial problem.  Looks to me like Hannah and Lawless are doing what they do and the director is giving them free rein to do it.  But it also appears that the director has chosen a style for the rest of the actors that doesn't mesh with those two leads.  It also appears that there are a few actors who aren't being given the time, enough takes, to say the one or two lines they might have in the same overall style the director has chosen for everyone (except Hannah and Lawless).  That sort of high dramatic style (that soaps do so poorly because they don't have a content that is actually suited to it) can work for material like this but it has to be one hundred percent across the board or it looks like some are over-acting and others are not acting and others still are off on their own style.  Again, that a directorial problem.


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## catsclaw227 (Jan 25, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> The 300ish blood was just a wee over the top, mind you.



Some of the hyperbloody shots were cheesy, for sure.  But I saw it as cheese in a good way.


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## Hand of Evil (Jan 25, 2010)

If it did not have the nudity and sex in it, I don't think I would have watched it.  

Acting:  You have some good performances but overall nothing special (yet).


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## Truth Seeker (Jan 25, 2010)

Mark, as you well know, any show that starts anew, either hit on the nail, or they wobble in, at the start.

Given time, this show will find it's footing, or it will trip on it's own feet.

But if the production team is smart, listening to the fans, will help a lot.

For me, it was like watching '300', but a smaller verison on the telly.



Mistwell said:


> I am trying to find a way to disagree with you without being rude about it, while still getting across just how much I disagree with you.
> 
> I am failing at that task. So, I guess I just can say that I thought the most of the acting (except for Lawless and Hannah) was extraordinarily poor. As it well below most soap opera acting. Some of it is truly horrid, particularly with some of the bit parts, and sometimes sounds like the actors are literally reading their lines.
> 
> The difference between this and, say, the acting in the "Rome" series, is so stark that I am at a complete failure to comprehend how I saw the same show as someone who says the acting was "good" overall.


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## Gog (Jan 25, 2010)

Wycen said:


> I saw banner ads for it on one of these websites, but didn't click it was going to be showing on cable.  I suspose I'll try to catch it, except you said it was on Starz?  Since when did they try to show new stuff?  Must be another reason it didn't catch my attention.




It also shows up for online streaming on Netflix the next day. Much like Legand of the Seeker


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## zen_hydra (Jan 25, 2010)

I did't hate it.  It has the potential to be a fun show.  I actually like the stylized look they are shooting for.  The blood effects reminds me a bit of what was done in the 2003 Zatoichi film (starring Takeshi Kitano).  Some acting was poor, but a couple of the actors gave respectable performances.  While I was hoping to see something of Rome's quality (which is perhaps my favorite show ever), I am willing to accept Spartacus for what it is and give it a shot to find its legs.


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## Wycen (Jan 30, 2010)

Ohhhhh.  It is supposed to be a series.  Yeah, did not tumble that part either.

Didn't seem very bloody to me, but I only saw the last 10 minutes or so of what I guess was the second episode.  I wasn't paying much attention, I was googling Wang Mang and cannibalism.


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## Steel_Wind (Jan 31, 2010)

I thought the second episode was better. I'm willing to watch this one a while and see where it goes.

I liked the fact that Spartcus, while he had his moments of nastiness, is not cpaable of taking on the skilled gladiators..yet.

No "meanest bad-ass of them all from the first moment" thing going on here. Not bad at all.


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## Steel_Wind (Feb 14, 2010)

Okay - enough of this geek love for iffy shows that are  receving iffy episode-by-episode braying, whilst _Spartacus: Blood and Sand_ is left with only one thread.

This show is turning out to be VERY cool and damned decent. If you judged it only by the 300 style over-the-topness of the pilot, you judged too quickly.

With episode 3 and 4 now in, I am now an unabashed *fan* of _Spartacus: Blood and Sand_; moreover, I believe most gamers would be too, if they give this one a good long look.


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## Celtavian (Feb 15, 2010)

*re*

It's a pure, bloody, guy series. Nudity, violence, and a real simple plot. It might draw in a female audience with all the muscular guys and the soap opera type plot. It's more of an action series than any attempt at pseudorealism or history. And as an action series, it's a cut above. Fun to watch.


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## Krug (Feb 20, 2010)

First episode didn't overly impress me but I'll keep watching. The special effects kept on kicking me out of the show though. It was hard to take it seriously after all the blood splatter. It's just overdone.


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## catsclaw227 (Feb 28, 2010)

Krug said:


> First episode didn't overly impress me but I'll keep watching. The special effects kept on kicking me out of the show though. It was hard to take it seriously after all the blood splatter. It's just overdone.




It's getting pretty good now.  After 6 episodes, the stories are falling into place and there's a fair number of subplots going on. 

I didn't expect the ending like we had last night though...

Still lots of comic-book blood and fairly explicit sex and nudity.


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## Fast Learner (Feb 28, 2010)

Quite explicit, and yes, the plots are nicely intertwined.


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## Truth Seeker (Mar 1, 2010)

Heh, the guys at Star Media gave me a heads up on this.

So far...well done. 


Steel_Wind said:


> Okay - enough of this geek love for iffy shows that are receving iffy episode-by-episode braying, whilst _Spartacus: Blood and Sand_ is left with only one thread.
> 
> This show is turning out to be VERY cool and damned decent. If you judged it only by the 300 style over-the-topness of the pilot, you judged too quickly.
> 
> With episode 3 and 4 now in, I am now an unabashed *fan* of _Spartacus: Blood and Sand_; moreover, I believe most gamers would be too, if they give this one a good long look.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 1, 2010)

Is there any chance the title of this thread could have a spelling fix to "Spartacus" instead of "Sparticus"? Not a huge deal, but I'm a bit of a pedant and I cringe every time I see it.


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 1, 2010)

Fast Learner said:


> Is there any chance the title of this thread could have a spelling fix to "Spartacus" instead of "Sparticus"? Not a huge deal, but I'm a bit of a pedant and I cringe every time I see it.




I fixed it.  My bad.  I recall working a couple of near all-nighters that week and by Friday (when I posted the thread) I was wiped.

And the show really is getting better and better.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks for starting the thread! And I agree, it's definitely rocking now.


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## Sutekh (Mar 2, 2010)

I kinda felt sorry for the invalid Gladiator Ashur in the first couple of episodes. Hes a cunning one and his actions in this episode just to make sure he didnt have to pay out to Barca were.. well not what I expected. Made for great viewing though. You could see that Pietros was the weak link for Barca.

It will be interesting to see if Crixus recovers to a point where he becomes viable again. Hes a tough one though.

The final scene was very cool. Doctore is one Tough SOB. Sura dying was expected though.


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 7, 2010)

EPISODE #7 now stands (far and away) as the best yet. There was the obligatory arena combat at the end. And while Spartcaus fights 6 against 1, the show manages some actual tension in the outcome of the battle (to the extent the show's premise allows for it).

But that was just the 3 minutes of cool action at the end. The real enjoyment is in the drama before the final battle - where _Spartacus: Blood and Sand_ serves notice that it is not just an action adventure series -- but has decided to take itself _seriously_.  And those scenes are consistent, rational, real and dramatic-- without being easily predictable or melodramatic.

Characters act consistently, true to their motives, fears and hopes, in complex ways. The series makes a deliberate choice to develop its ongoing plot lines and make its characters act in ways that make sense within the story. 

_Spartacus:Blood and Sand_ has, until episode #7, been over the top and is not self-consciously reaching to be _history on film_. Maybe so, but episode #7 certainly attained _history on film_ -- and achieved it better than any other sword-and-sandals epic to date in its own small way.

For the record, not one over-the-top blood splatter during the arena scene, either. I think the director of this particular episode decided the tale he was telling was about *real people* who lived 2050 years ago.

This series *ROCKS*.


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 7, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> EPISODE #7 now stands (far and away) as the best yet. There was the obligatory arena combat at the end. And while Spartcaus fights 6 against 1, the show manages some actual tension in the outcome of the battle (to the extent the show's premise allows for it).
> 
> But that was just the 3 minutes of cool action at the end. The real enjoyment is in the drama before the final battle - where _Spartacus: Blood and Sand_ serves notice that it is not just an action adventure series -- but has decided to take itself _seriously_.  And those scenes are consistent, rational, real and dramatic-- without being easily predictable or melodramatic.
> 
> Characters act consistently, true to their motives, fears and hopes, in complex ways. The series makes a deliberate choice to develop its ongoing plot lines and make its characters act in ways that make sense within the story.



Very true.

I am still unsure of what to think of Batiatus.  Sometimes, when he is reveling in his successes, he seems generous and fair, even honorable.  But there are times when he is scheming and always seems to have an ulterior motive.  Truly human... especially in times when station is critical to your livelihood.

John Hannah does a great job with this character.



Steel_Wind said:


> _Spartacus:Blood and Sand_ has, until episode #7, been over the top and is not self-consciously reaching to be _history on film_. Maybe so, but episode #7 certainly attained _history on film_ -- and achieved it better than any other sword-and-sandals epic to date in its own small way.



I would say that it started taking itself more seriously for the past 2-3 episodes.  But I agree that this one really brought the drama to the table without being "As the Sword Turns".


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## catsclaw227 (Apr 3, 2010)

Wow.... the last couple of episodes have been really great.  

[sblock]
The look in Sparticus' eyes when he knew he had to plunge the blade into his best friend.  [/sblock]

I love the depiction of how certain people accepted their post in life, most noteably the subservient slave/gladiator caste, while at the same time, those like Batiatus are always looking for upward mobility.

Things are coming to a head and I am looking forward to where this one is going.

I watch this DVR'ed from Starz, but is it available other places?  My understanding is that Hulu really only works well from the US, so do you guys in the UK or Canada get a chance to catch this series?


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## lin_fusan (Apr 3, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> Characters act consistently, true to their motives, fears and hopes, in complex ways. The series makes a deliberate choice to develop its ongoing plot lines and make its characters act in ways that make sense within the story.




This is what I really grok to in this series. Each character has a goal that is very clear from ep to ep, and they do things to attain that goal. And each goal intertwines and conflicts with the goals of the other characters. That's drama. 

This show is carefully constructed, and it tickles my writer's gland while giving me blood, guts, and glory.

As for the acting, I see it as much better than the wooden acting on Babylon 5, and I loved Bab5. I think I'm very forgiving to actors (except for a certain few on my "will never watch list") but I'm very critical to writing and plotting, which makes sense considering my writing background.

So count me (and my girlfriend) as fans of this show.


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## catsclaw227 (Apr 4, 2010)

I wish it had a broader reach.

There are a lot of people here, I believe, that would really like this one.


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## Dire Bare (Apr 4, 2010)

catsclaw227 said:


> I wish it had a broader reach.
> 
> There are a lot of people here, I believe, that would really like this one.




I might be misunderstanding you, but . . .

It's on Starz here in the US, and if you have Netflix you can stream it online.


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## Fast Learner (Apr 5, 2010)

I wondered how long they would play things out regarding the death of Spartacus's wife. Now how long can they hold back moving forward with the rebellion? I figured we'd have a couple of seasons with no rebellion, but I'm not sure how that's possible now.


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## Sutekh (Apr 6, 2010)

Rebellion? I don't see that happening anytime soon. The rest of the season will be the Spartacus game plan to bring down his 'master'. 

I was really thrown by the Spartacus/Illythia 'relations' a few episodes back. Way to go series.. I totally didnt expect that reveal.

I think we will be seeing Sura for a long time to come. although his new Dark haired attendant seems to have somewhat caught his eye.


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## catsclaw227 (Apr 6, 2010)

Dire Bare said:


> I might be misunderstanding you, but . . .
> 
> It's on Starz here in the US, and if you have Netflix you can stream it online.



What I mean is that sine Starz isn't a very common pay-channel (at least not as big as HBO or Showtime) it's not getting out to as many cable/satellite users as a SyFy or USA does.

Buuuut, I did not know that it was available on Netflix Instant Queue!  That's Awesome! <putting in queue now...>

I know that Hulu isn't available outside the US in many cases, is Netflix Instant Queue available to the UK or European users?


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## catsclaw227 (Apr 6, 2010)

Sutekh said:


> I was really thrown by the Spartacus/Illythia 'relations' a few episodes back. Way to go series.. I totally didnt expect that reveal.



I did NOT expect that either.  I wonder if Lucretia planned that on her own and elicited the help of the other woman (can't remember her name - an important someone's wife), or did the other woman talk Lucretia into it as a sort of prank that went way bad.

EDIT:  Her name was Licinia.  I recall everything now.


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## BrooklynKnight (Apr 6, 2010)

catsclaw227 said:


> I did NOT expect that either.  I wonder if Lucretia planned that on her own and elicited the help of the other woman (can't remember her name - an important someone's wife), or did the other woman talk Lucretia into it as a sort of prank that went way bad.




Xena set her up on purpose. Xena was jealous that she also desired Crixus, and because the girl embarrassed her once or twice. The whole point was to embarrass her and get something on her she could use. So, she intentionally set her up to get caught screwing the guy who embarrassed her husband, a guy she clearly hated. The plan went wrong however when she went nuts and killed the girl. But Xena salvaged the whole situation because instead of the sex scandal she used the murder to blackmail her.


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## Sutekh (Apr 7, 2010)

and thats why I love the series.  Now they have made Lucretia pregnant?, it will be interesting to see how thats going to play out. 

It will be great to see Glaber return, and the reveal to him that Spartacus is now the Champion of Capua.


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## Bedrockgames (Apr 7, 2010)

It looked pretty good. I enjoyed some of the episodes. But for my taste, they over-emphasized the sex bit.


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## Droogie (Apr 12, 2010)

Fantastic show. Loving it.

When you peel away the gratuitous sex and violence, you have some surprisingly complex characters and interesting plots. Even Crixus, who i wrote off as a 2-dimensional meat head at the beginning, had me deeply moved by his plight by episode 12.

Unfortunately, season 2 is delayed because of Andy Whitfield's recent cancer diagnosis. Hopefully he will be well enough soon to continue this amazing show.


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## Maxboy (Apr 12, 2010)

This looks interesting, a way to fill the gap between seasons while Andy recovers

Vulture Exclusive: Starz Developing a Spartacus: Blood and Sand Prequel -- Vulture


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## Fast Learner (Apr 12, 2010)

Sutekh said:


> Rebellion? I don't see that happening anytime soon. The rest of the season will be the Spartacus game plan to bring down his 'master'.




Like I said, rebellion.


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## Truth Seeker (Apr 18, 2010)

Oh frak me...rebellion it was!!!

What a season ender...


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## catsclaw227 (Apr 19, 2010)

That was awesome.  

[sblock]I did NOT expect to see that many key deaths.[/sblock]


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## Truth Seeker (Apr 19, 2010)

Yep...that was a lot!!!


catsclaw227 said:


> That was awesome.
> 
> [sblock]I did NOT expect to see that many key deaths.[/sblock]


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## Hand of Evil (Apr 19, 2010)

Yep, suprising as I thought they would have built the legend up some more.


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## Fast Learner (Apr 19, 2010)

Once Spartacus learned that his wife had been intentionally killed by Batiatus I thought (as I posted here), huh, guess they'll have the rebellion in the next few episodes. I really couldn't see the character (as they've built him up) spending hardly any time planning anything once that was known.

The lore of the real Spartacus mostly takes place after the revolt, so I guess that's what the producers are doing.

I have to admit that (note: sexist-like comment spoiled ahead, avoid if easily offended by basic sexuality) 



Spoiler



I'll really miss Lucy Lawless' breasts


.


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## Sutekh (Apr 20, 2010)

What a great episode.

It was an episode of 2 themes. The first 15-20 minutes was setting up the remainder with Spartacus and co seeing who their allies would be.

Then it was on!

For me the best little scene was the fight between Crixus and Spartacus. Towards the end, Crixus fumbles for his Shield and then gives it a light 2 finger tap. Thats the signal of the 'coup' for me.

I felt sorry for Doctore the most. This guy has been raised by the Ludus, his LIFE is there. Its all he has. To lose all of it in what 20 minutes ... thats just shattering.


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## LostSoul (May 20, 2010)

I saw the first episode when it came out over here and dismissed it as crap.  Since I have it on demand I decided to give it another chance.  

I'm glad I did.

This story (and it's all about the story, sex and violence just catalysts) is hard-core.  Desperate people doing desperate things to get what they want.  The number of tough choices they have to make, the consequences they have to deal with, the ideals they turn their backs on... it's awesome.

Burning Wheel would do it justice, I think.


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