# NHL -- Barely saved from stupidity



## Cutter XXIII (Jul 22, 2005)

Okay, just have to [vent] a little here...

Yeah, I'm mildly excited that the NHL has got a new CBA.

But as someone who does some Marketing at work, I have to say I cannot believe the utter stupidity of the NHL's "publicity campaign."

They got a tentative agreement a week ago, and refused to give out any concrete info at all. They wouldn't even describe the mood in the room. Nothing. Wasted opportunity.

The owners finally ratify the CBA, and they hold a draft whose rules are almost unprecendented in North American sports, and they announce the results and unveil the "new NHL"...

(drumroll)

*at 4 p.m. on Friday afternoon.*

Yes, folks...when other people release news on Friday afternoon they are accused of trying to "hide" it. You know, because no one will see it, care about it, or talk about it until Monday. And most likely, by then, some other news will be more important by then.

And this is the time the NHL chose to pop the lid off their brand-spaking-new league with new rules, and a new logo, and most of the players getting shuffled to Eris-knows-what team, and Canadian phenom next-Wayne-Gretzky Sidney Crosby going to a random team.

Friday Freaking Afternoon.

Dumbasses. Make me so mad.

[/vent]


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 22, 2005)

Tail-between-their legs, man. Everything with a puck is tainted.


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## Thunderfoot (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm just glad there will be ice time this year!

Wha't really _COOL_ is that the draft is decided by bingo - under the B - Bruins pick #2, under the O - Ottaw pick #3...   

Oh well!!


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## Cutter XXIII (Jul 22, 2005)

Heh.

I'm hoping the Rangers get Crosby, so the (emaciated) hockey world will hate us all the more.


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## Kanegrundar (Jul 22, 2005)

We'll see how long this lasts, but I'm just happy we'll get to see some more action on the ice.

I have to agree, the NHL heads seem to be smoking something really nice these days...

Kane


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## CalicoDave (Jul 22, 2005)

All the new rules being implemented for the coming year seem like good ones.  Except for the shoot-out thing.  I'd rather have tie games then a shoot-out.

They are going to crack down on interference, but that usually only lasts for about the first month of the season.


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## thalmin (Jul 22, 2005)

I think this is in poor taste. A National Hookey League indeed! As if we don't have enough trouble trying to get our kids to take school seriously, here we have an organization about playing hookey. What do they do, reward the person that cut the most days of school? What is this world coming to?


Huh?

Oh. 

Oooops.   

Never mind.


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## Cutter XXIII (Jul 22, 2005)

I like all the rule changes.

And I love that Crosby went to the Pens.

Between Pittsburgh and Anaheim...the future of the NHL teetered between fanfare and farce. Luckily we got the fanfare.


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## Crothian (Jul 23, 2005)

THis is the year of the Blue Jacket.  Having a full year off the team will be really well rested and will hopefully have forgotten their very losing ways.....


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## Angel Tarragon (Jul 23, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> THis is the year of the Blue Jacket.



I think not. The Coyotes are going all the way, baby!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 23, 2005)

Stars and Devils ÜBER ALLES!

However, it will be interesting to see if the younger teams and players that were starting to emerge before the* Clash of the Idiots* will continue to improve.  I watched all the playoff games start to finish, and I liked what I saw from the Lightning and the Flames.


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## GlassJaw (Jul 23, 2005)

I lost complete interest in the NHL long ago but I'm glad that they made some (much-needed) rules changes.  I'm skeptical about the shoot-outs but I'll give it a shot.  I really wish they dropped some teams though - there are just way too many.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 23, 2005)

Just looked over the new rules. Most are pretty good!

I've watched enough international hockey to know that the new 2 line pass will DEFINITELY up the offensive opportunities- Sweden used that a lot...they called it the "Torpedo" pass.

The Tag-Up offsides will also increase flow and scoring.

However, I've seen too many injuries on touch-up icing plays to be a fan of it, even though it does allow for the occasional heroics.


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## Ambrus (Jul 23, 2005)

Hockey... That's the one with the little flat black ball right; or is it the one with the brown pointy ball?... So what's this about a strike?


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## IronWolf (Jul 23, 2005)

It will be nice to have the teams back on the ice again this year!  Looking forward to the season and hoping the Blue Jackets really have forgotten their losing ways....


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 23, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> THis is the year of the Blue Jacket.  Having a full year off the team will be really well rested and will hopefully have forgotten their very losing ways.....




...and Rick Nash has been nothing short of spectacular in interntional play during the whole NHL fiasco.


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## Crothian (Jul 23, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> ...and Rick Nash has been nothing short of spectacular in interntional play during the whole NHL fiasco.




Cool!!  Bringing Lord Stanley's Cup to Columbus!!!


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## IronWolf (Jul 23, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> ...and Rick Nash has been nothing short of spectacular in interntional play during the whole NHL fiasco.




I had the opportunity to see Nash play live several times here in Columbus and he was pretty amazing.  He seemed to be able to make some pretty sweet moves and just know where the puck was going to be.  Fun player to watch.


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## Vraille Darkfang (Jul 23, 2005)

NHL.

What, pray tell does NHL stand for?

Alas, I remeber in the before times, there was an NHL, the one sport where Canada still reigned supreme.  Then the Lightening were allowed into the league.  And a Movie (Ye old Mighty Ducks)

I've not given a darn for hockey for several years now.  I breifly became an Avalanche fan when the games were actually on TV.  (If your games are shown on ESPN 2, competing with Duck Hunting Today, World's Strongest Man, & the Lumberjack Competition....

The Fat Lady's Dressed, Prepped & waiting in the wings.

The NHL 1893 to 2004 R.I.P.  Cause of Death?  Stupidity/Greed take your pick on who was stupider/greedier: the players or the owners.  Whichever you choose, you're right.


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## Bront (Jul 23, 2005)

The owners in Chicago systematicly have destroyed the hockey fandom here in this city.  Now we can look forward to another year of not being able to watch a Blackhawk's home game on TV because the owners are afraid it might cost them ticket sales.  Instead, it has cost them fans, and few in Chicago are able to follow their own local team, so they stopped trying.

The players were too stuborn.  If they had signed last year, they would have gotten more out of the league.  Meanwhile you have owners screaming about not being able to devide up billions of dollars.

Hopefully these rulechanges will help.  Shootouts are good, but did they get rid of the 4 man OT? (By far, one of the dumbest rules ever).


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## CalicoDave (Jul 23, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Hopefully these rulechanges will help.  Shootouts are good, but did they get rid of the 4 man OT? (By far, one of the dumbest rules ever).




They still have the 5-minute 4 on 4 overtime and if there's a tie after the 5 minutes they go to the shootout.

I actually like the 4 on 4 overtime.  It really opens up the ice and allows the fast and skilled players to actually contribute as opposed to in the regular 5 on 5 where all you need is one good player and a bunch of goons to hold onto the other teams players (aka: The Tampa Bay Lightning offense)


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## IronWolf (Jul 23, 2005)

CalicoDave said:
			
		

> They still have the 5-minute 4 on 4 overtime and if there's a tie after the 5 minutes they go to the shootout.
> 
> I actually like the 4 on 4 overtime.  It really opens up the ice and allows the fast and skilled players to actually contribute as opposed to in the regular 5 on 5 where all you need is one good player and a bunch of goons to hold onto the other teams players (aka: The Tampa Bay Lightning offense)




Yeah, I like the 4 on 4 overtime too.  Like you said it really opens up the ice and helps cut down on the older days of 5 on 5 just clutching and grabbing to keep the pace slow.  I think it builds some of the excitement to the overtime.


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## spatha (Jul 23, 2005)

If I said what I think about the new rules here I'd be banned. The language would be colourfull to say the least.

The game is not broken the rules are fine as they are. They need to be enforced.
The teams and structure of the NHL is what "broke" the NHL. With then CBA team parity should arrive, making the game better. Leave the rules alone for at least 2 years to see how a more balance league looks on ice.


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## devilbat (Jul 23, 2005)

> The NHL 1893 to 2004 R.I.P. Cause of Death? Stupidity/Greed take your pick on who was stupider/greedier: the players or the owners. Whichever you choose, you're right.




Yeah, yeah, keep on moving.  



> The game is not broken the rules are fine as they are. They need to be enforced.
> The teams and structure of the NHL is what "broke" the NHL. With then CBA team parity should arrive, making the game better. Leave the rules alone for at least 2 years to see how a more balance league looks on ice.




In essence, I agree with you.  Hockey was great in the eighties, when the rules were called as written.  Today's refeering does not remotely resemble how the game is supposed to be called.

The one rule change that really gets me is the limited area behind the net where the goaltender can play the puck.  Goaltenders have gone from the fat, out of shape athlete of yester year (with whom I resemble), to the fit, uber athlete of today.  Hence their skills in all areas of their games have developed.  Why goaltenders should be penalized for being able to make a lead pass, or clear the puck from the defensive zone is ludacris.  That's like saying Yao Ming shouldn't be able to slam, because he has a hight advantage.

I can live with the rest of the changes.  I actually like the shootout for regular season games.  NEVER, EVER in the playoffs though.


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## devilbat (Jul 23, 2005)

> The owners in Chicago systematicly have destroyed the hockey fandom here in this city. Now we can look forward to another year of not being able to watch a Blackhawk's home game on TV because the owners are afraid it might cost them ticket sales. Instead, it has cost them fans, and few in Chicago are able to follow their own local team, so they stopped trying.




I really feel for the fans of the Blackhawks.  Hirtz has systematically destroyed the franchise with his beyond penny pinching means.  Bringing in Theuron Fleury a couple of years ago seemed to be the nail in the coffin.  I was really hoping that if the Cunucks didn't get Crosby, then the Blackhawks would.  That would have been great for Chicago, and the NHL.  Thankfully the team has a bunch of really talented prospects coming up the pipe.

Penguins fans don't deserve Crosby.  The way they have abandoned that franchise is sad.  Although, we often hear rumors of the Penguins relocating, and if that were to happen, I know there would be a group in Winnipeg, trying to get a team back.  Crosby with a Jets uniform on would be a pretty amazing thing, even if it is unlikely to ever happen.


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## Cutter XXIII (Jul 23, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> That's like saying Yao Ming shouldn't be able to slam, because he has a hight advantage.




No it isn't. It's like saying that defensive hockey, the trap defense, and goalies wearing tower shields while they buzz all over their zone, have made a mockery of a great sport.


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## devilbat (Jul 23, 2005)

> No it isn't. It's like saying that defensive hockey, the trap defense, and goalies wearing tower shields while they buzz all over their zone, have made a mockery of a great sport.




Nothing wrong with defensive hockey, the trap wouldn't work as well if the referee's would call the clutching and grabbing, and goalies equipment should be regulated.

None of which has anything to do with my point of goalies being able to handle and play the puck.  But thanks for the input.


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## IamTheTest (Jul 23, 2005)

My stance on goalies (which is widely hated) is that the goalie should be able to do whatever he wants.  The caveat is that if the goalie leaves the crease he can be hit like any other player could be.  A big slow target could be fun.


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## devilbat (Jul 23, 2005)

> My stance on goalies (which is widely hated) is that the goalie should be able to do whatever he wants. The caveat is that if the goalie leaves the crease he can be hit like any other player could be. A big slow target could be fun.




I agree with that, with the same rules for hitting from behind, charging and boarding that already exisit.  If you wander, your fair game.


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## LazerPointer (Jul 23, 2005)

IamTheTest said:
			
		

> My stance on goalies (which is widely hated) is that the goalie should be able to do whatever he wants.  The caveat is that if the goalie leaves the crease he can be hit like any other player could be.  A big slow target could be fun.




exactly!  let them play the puck, but if they're on the boards they can't shield the puck with thier body.

I can't wait for the upcoming season, and for Bertuzzi to be reinstated.

Hockey is the only pro sport that gets a rule-change bug every couple of years.  The image they project:  that the game is broken and needs fixing.  stupid.  You know what the best thing for the league would be?  NO MORE GARY BETTMAN.  He's run the league into the ground, and the sooner he's gone the better.  He's belligerent in interviews, and has led the league to expand into markets that can't support franchises.  Effing weasel.

Go Canucks! and my sympathies for Chicago, and that stupid tv blackout.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 23, 2005)

Rules were made to be house ruled.


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## Remathilis (Jul 23, 2005)

You know, I watched basketball, politics, and pro wrestling; nothing beats a good game of hockey. 

Now, lets see if we find one...


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## Bront (Jul 24, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I really feel for the fans of the Blackhawks.  Hirtz has systematically destroyed the franchise with his beyond penny pinching means.  Bringing in Theuron Fleury a couple of years ago seemed to be the nail in the coffin.  I was really hoping that if the Cunucks didn't get Crosby, then the Blackhawks would.  That would have been great for Chicago, and the NHL.  Thankfully the team has a bunch of really talented prospects coming up the pipe.
> 
> Penguins fans don't deserve Crosby.  The way they have abandoned that franchise is sad.  Although, we often hear rumors of the Penguins relocating, and if that were to happen, I know there would be a group in Winnipeg, trying to get a team back.  Crosby with a Jets uniform on would be a pretty amazing thing, even if it is unlikely to ever happen.



What's more unfortunate is that his son has stated that when he takes over the team, he'll continue in his dad's tradition.  Fleury could worked, and it's hard to blame the 'Hawks for his mistakes.  The real nail was what they did with Amonte, Roenick, and Belfore.  If they had sucked it up and kept all 3 of them, they probably would have won a cup some time in the late '90s.  Never even talking to some of the free agents out there each year didn't help build excitement in the off season, which made it an exersize in "Who are we loosing this year?", and the year they made the playoffs (2-3 seasons ago?) they still didn't televise the home games.  Way to cultivate the fans.

In Chicago, the Cubs are, well, the Cubs.  The Bears always had someone interesting to watch even if the team wasn't great, and they're the Bears.  The White Sox have always been underapreciated untill this year, and even now they're often second fiddle to the problems the Cubs have.  The Bulls were riding a legacy for a few years, and have had promise for a while which they finaly began to show.  Meanwhile, in the early '90s, the Blackhawks had this town, and as that degraded so bad that by the end of the '90s, Hawks talk had all but become a rarity, and sports radio stations would actualy avoid it because it would alienate most listeners almost immediately.

They only thing they have going is one of the best looking Uni's in hockey, and onlookers who will have a morbid curiosity with life after the death of the NHL, which is what the next season will be.


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## Altamont Ravenard (Jul 24, 2005)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> Rules were made to be house ruled.



 That'd be funny: every arena has its own rules. 

AR


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## IronWolf (Jul 24, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> The real nail was what they did with Amonte, Roenick, and Belfore.  If they had sucked it up and kept all 3 of them, they probably would have won a cup some time in the late '90s.




That was the last I ever really followed the Blackhawks.  I was a big fan of Belfour and Roenick.


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## Kastil (Jul 24, 2005)

As a die hard Pens fan, I'm stoked.  It'll be a treat to see Crosby play but I'm just happy there's hockey. PERIOD.  I plan on making copious amounts of hot wings and staying up to the wee hours of the night watching NHL Center Ice.

Welll...I MIGHT miss a game or two to see my favorite hockey player... my son on the JV team this year! :-D


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## devilbat (Jul 24, 2005)

> Fleury could worked, and it's hard to blame the 'Hawks for his mistakes.




I disagree with this.  The team knew of the many issues this guy faced, and believe me when I tell you alcohol wasn't the only one.  They signed him because his asking price was very low, and they didn't monitor his after hours activities.  

If you are going to bring in a potential public relations nightmare, at least have someone watching him, so he doesn't disgrace the team.


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## The_lurkeR (Jul 24, 2005)

At least Chicago has an NHL team.

I miss our Hartford Whalers... those loveable losers


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## Welverin (Jul 24, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> The owners finally ratify the CBA, and they hold a draft whose rules are almost unprecendented in North American sports, and they announce the results and unveil the "new NHL"...
> 
> (drumroll)
> 
> ...




But this is soprts, 4 pm on Firday afternoon gives plenty of time for reporting and discussion on ESPN, with Jim Rome is Burning at 4:30, AtH at 5, PtI at 5:30, and Sportscenter at 6, 11, 1, and 2 there is plenty of time for the news to get out there.

Besides, it's the NHL next to no one in this country cares anyway, so it hardly matters when they made the announcement.


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## Cutter XXIII (Jul 24, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Nothing wrong with defensive hockey, the trap wouldn't work as well if the referee's would call the clutching and grabbing, and goalies equipment should be regulated.
> 
> None of which has anything to do with my point of goalies being able to handle and play the puck.  But thanks for the input.




EDIT: Actually, goalies being able to skate all over their own zone like Patrick-freaking-Roy and his ilk have everything to do with how and when goalies play the puck.

You're pretty rude,  Devilbat, and I don't appreciate it.


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## SWBaxter (Jul 24, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> The owners finally ratify the CBA, and they hold a draft whose rules are almost unprecendented in North American sports, and they announce the results and unveil the "new NHL"...




They didn't hold the draft, just the lottery. The first pick is set, everything after that is going to be pretty interesting to serious hockey fans. And that goes next Saturday.

So far as the timing goes, the only significant live audience for any of the pre-season stuff is in Canada, and Bettman frankly doesn't care about that audience. All he wants is to see a 30 second blurb on ESPN, so it didn't matter to him when the announcement happened so long as there was a video camera present.


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## devilbat (Jul 24, 2005)

> EDIT: Actually, goalies being able to skate all over their own zone like Patrick-freaking-Roy and his ilk have everything to do with how and when goalies play the puck.




You mean like the four or five goalies that can handle the puck cleanly in the recent past.  Patrick Roy was a horrid stick handler.  Every time he played the puck it was an adventure, that often lead to a give away and a goal.

Or do you mean like Jacques Plante, who used to do it 40-50 years ago?




> You're pretty rude, Devilbat, and I don't appreciate it.




Sorry you feel that way.


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## spatha (Jul 24, 2005)

The_lurkeR said:
			
		

> At least Chicago has an NHL team.
> 
> I miss our Hartford Whalers... those loveable losers




I feel you pain Mang. Winnipeger here who misees his Jets. I miss them so much and dream of the new CBA meaning we may someday get them back I have updated my avatar.


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## devilbat (Jul 24, 2005)

And now with Crosby about to be drafted, I wouldn't mind seeing the Penguins be the team that relocates to the 'Peg.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 24, 2005)

Hmmm...IMHO, Goalies:

Should have their equipment carefully monitored- no more mile-wide pads (unless you have a sumo-wrestler for goalie)!  Otherwise, just drop the position entirely, and just make a plexiglass covered netspace with 5 holes in it.  Its one thing to stop a puck because you have skills or a slinky for a spine, and another if you're wearing a mattress factory's yearly output.

Should be allowed to play the puck like anyone else- and be subject to the same rules as anyone else outside the crease.  If they suck with the puck, their coaches and teammates will let them know...possibly with a pillowcase party.


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## Welverin (Jul 25, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Should have their equipment carefully monitored- no more mile-wide pads (unless you have a sumo-wrestler for goalie)!  Otherwise, just drop the position entirely, and just make a plexiglass covered netspace with 5 holes in it.  Its one thing to stop a puck because you have skills or a slinky for a spine, and another if you're wearing a mattress factory's yearly output.




one of the rules changes is a limit to the size of goalie pads, and that includes eveything they wear.


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## devilbat (Jul 25, 2005)

> Otherwise, just drop the position entirely, and just make a plexiglass covered netspace with 5 holes in it.




BLASPHEMY!

You are kidding right?



> Its one thing to stop a puck because you have skills or a slinky for a spine, and another if you're wearing a mattress factory's yearly output.




I play goal, and I have for over twenty years.  I have played against a bunch of former NHL'ers.  Perry Miller, Thomas Steen, Randy Gilhen, Mike Keane, Ray Neufeld, Scott Arniel, etc...  Let me tell you that these guys shoot HARD!  I have wide pads, thick pants and body protectors, and I still leave the rink with bruises you wouldn't believe.  I know goalie equipment has gotten out of hand, but the usage of one piece composite sticks that add 5 MPH to the average players shot, make me think that a little extra protection for the goalie is A-OK.

On the other hand, guys like Patrick Roy and especially Garth Snow went too far with the size of their equipment.


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 25, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I know goalie equipment has gotten out of hand, but the usage of one piece composite sticks that add 5 MPH to the average players shot, make me think that a little extra protection for the goalie is A-OK.




I'm with you. Make the things as _thick_ as you need to.

But width doesn't make them protect the Goalie any better. It just takes up more of the goal mouth...which cheapens (and has cheapened) the position of goalie to the point where Danny's suggestion makes sense as the next logical step.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 25, 2005)

Yeah, the thing about the plexiglass was a joke- as much as wearing a serta perfect sleeper for pads is.

I played goal in 2 sports- soccer and street hockey (ball, not puck)- so I know what its like to take a slap shot  in the chest or a stick to the wrist...or jaw.

I don't want them to get hurt, but theres a difference between skill and moving a pile of pillows in the way.

As for the sticks...well at least its not as bad as the aluminum bats in baseball- I understand those add as much as 15mph to a hit.  Thank God the pros use wood or the pitchers would need armor.


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## devilbat (Jul 25, 2005)

> I'm with you. Make the things as thick as you need to.
> 
> But width doesn't make them protect the Goalie any better. It just takes up more of the goal mouth...which cheapens (and has cheapened) the position of goalie to the point where Danny's suggestion makes sense as the next logical step.




TB, as a Cunucks fan, you'll appreciate this.  I picked up a pair of Alex Auld's used pads this past winter.  Man, those things make playing goal a lot easier.  Every time you go down on your knees, instant butterfly.  Technology is a beautiful thing.  That being said, they are also 36" + 2"+ spoiler.  It gives you a total of 40" per pad.  When you think of that in terms of 2 pads, on the ice in a butterfly position, it covers almost seven feet.  Pretty silly, all in all.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 25, 2005)

The lesson?

Size matters.


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## Welverin (Jul 26, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> The lesson?
> 
> Size matters.




Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Namely they're own inadequacies.


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## Sebastian Francis (Jul 27, 2005)

thalmin said:
			
		

> I think this is in poor taste. A National Hookey League indeed! As if we don't have enough trouble trying to get our kids to take school seriously, here we have an organization about playing hookey. What do they do, reward the person that cut the most days of school? What is this world coming to?
> 
> 
> Huh?
> ...




Actually, following a National Hookey League would probably be far more enjoyable than watching professional ice hockey.  Boring game, that.


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## Arnwyn (Jul 27, 2005)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> Alas, I remeber in the before times, there was an NHL, the one sport where Canada still reigned supreme.  Then the Lightening were allowed into the league.  And a Movie (Ye old Mighty Ducks)
> 
> I've not given a darn for hockey for several years now.



I'm with you there. I completely lost interest when Winnipeg lost its team.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Jul 27, 2005)

I have a friend who used to play goal in high school and college.  He noticed that the equipment size in the NHL wasn't regulated and wanted to design the 4' x 6' blocker.  He would spend the game inside the net and just put the blocker on the ice just outside the goal line.  I guess now he'll never achieve his dream.  

I'm glad to see hockey will return, and I'm ok with the rules changes.  I just want the game to be exciting like I remember it was years ago...of course maybe that had more to do with the Bruins having a decent team back then than the rules.

I hope all you Penguins fans find that Crosby lives up to the hype.  There was this kid by the name of Thornton who was in the same situation years ago.  He's been a good player, but not the franchise saving sensation that everyone thought he would be.


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## devilbat (Jul 27, 2005)

> There was this kid by the name of Thornton who was in the same situation years ago. He's been a good player, but not the franchise saving sensation that everyone thought he would be.




Joe Thornton's best years are ahead of him.  He was really coming into his during the 03-04 season, but he was battling injury pretty much the whole year.  I think he'll be one of the marquee players in the new NHL.


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 28, 2005)

I hope if the rumours are true and Bertuzzi demands a trade, Boston will take him in exchange for Thornton.


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## devilbat (Jul 28, 2005)

> I hope if the rumours are true and Bertuzzi demands a trade, Boston will take him in exchange for Thornton.




If the Bruins make that trade, it proves that Harry Sinden is in the latter effects of a debilatating brain disease.

No shot at Bertuzzi, but Thorton's worth an awful lot more then Bertuzzi straight up.


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## Davek (Jul 28, 2005)

Devilbat, are you playing in Winnipeg these days (Summer league)?


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## devilbat (Jul 28, 2005)

> Devilbat, are you playing in Winnipeg these days (Summer league)?




No, my season goes from early September until the end of June, I try and give the body a break over the summer.


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## Davek (Jul 28, 2005)

Who are you playing for, if you don't mind my asking?


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## Thornir Alekeg (Jul 28, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> If the Bruins make that trade, it proves that Harry Sinden is in the latter effects of a debilatating brain disease.
> 
> No shot at Bertuzzi, but Thorton's worth an awful lot more then Bertuzzi straight up.




I don't think Boston fans need anymore proof about Sinden's mental state, thank you very much.  :\ 

I like Thornton and I'm glad the Bruins have him, but I think people thought he was going to arrive in Boston and immediately have a huge impact.  It has taken a couple of seasons, and he had just started to get comfortable with the idea of really being a team leader during the 03-04 season.  Hopefully he'll be able to pick up where he left off.  Glad he played in the Swiss league this past year, hopefully he won't be rusty as a result.

They have made a five year offer to him as a restricted free agent.  We'll see how all that goes.


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 29, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> If the Bruins make that trade, it proves that Harry Sinden is in the latter effects of a debilatating brain disease.
> 
> No shot at Bertuzzi, but Thorton's worth an awful lot more then Bertuzzi straight up.




Sinden hasn't denied the rumours though.

Like I say, I'd prefer to keep Todd, but if he is dead-set on leaving, I'd love to see Thornton take his spot.

If Markus Naslund goes, I'd like to see Paul Kariya take his spot.


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 1, 2005)

Congrats to The Columbus Blue Jackets for drafting Gilbert Brule.

He plays for Vancouver's Junior team and he is bottled dynamite. You guys cleaned up getting his at #6.

I'll be stunned if he doesn't go straight onto your team on a line with Nash.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 2, 2005)

> Congrats to The Columbus Blue Jackets for drafting Gilbert Brule.




I was really surprised that he lasted until the sixth pick.  I had him projected at third, behind Crosby and Johnson.

Columbus is gearing up for success.  Signing Adam Foote yesterday was a great move.  His lack of scoring doesn't get him much appreciation for the casual fan, but he is one of the best defensive defenseman in the game.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 2, 2005)

> Who are you playing for, if you don't mind my asking




Sorry, that question comes too close to violating my "Closet Gamer" status.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 2, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I was really surprised that he lasted until the sixth pick.  I had him projected at third, behind Crosby and Johnson.
> 
> Columbus is gearing up for success.  Signing Adam Foote yesterday was a great move.  His lack of scoring doesn't get him much appreciation for the casual fan, but he is one of the best defensive defenseman in the game.




I agree. With the addition of Foote and Brule to their team they now have a _serious_ core of players.

The team will, of course, be built around Nash; but Zherdev, Sanderson, Malhotra and even ex-Canuck Trev "The Big" Letowski are all Excellent-to-Credible players.

The only real "hole" they had was defense, but Foote is not only top-notch himself, but is enough of a vet to set an example for the younger players.

Which leaves Goal. Denis isn't really a disaster or anything, but let's just say that I expect the focus of this team to be _outscoring _their opponents 

Still quite a team for such a young franchise


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 2, 2005)

Devilbat, answer your PM's


----------



## Crothian (Aug 2, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Congrats to The Columbus Blue Jackets for drafting Gilbert Brule.
> 
> He plays for Vancouver's Junior team and he is bottled dynamite. You guys cleaned up getting his at #6.
> 
> I'll be stunned if he doesn't go straight onto your team on a line with Nash.




Well, its not like there is a lot of compitation on the team for him, we got some good players but we need to improve in many many places.  Glad to hear the kids good though!!


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 2, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Well, its not like there is a lot of compitation on the team for him, we got some good players but we need to improve in many many places...




I don't know man. Defense was where you needed help most, and with the addtion of Foote, you got it in spades.

The addition of Brule took your offensive potential from B+ to A...

You need help in Goal, but other than that, I'm seeing a good, solid team that could easily get on a roll.


----------



## Crothian (Aug 2, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I don't know man. Defense was where you needed help most, and with the addtion of Foote, you got it in spades.
> 
> The addition of Brule took your offensive potential from B+ to A...
> 
> You need help in Goal, but other than that, I'm seeing a good, solid team that could easily get on a roll.




I'm hoping for it, the team can use it.  Before the strike we had a great home crowd and I'm hoping that stays as it is.  I've still got my part of a season tickets and some friends are talking about going to even more games this year.  I'm really looking forward to hockey season.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 2, 2005)

> Devilbat, answer your PM's




Answered




> You need help in Goal




As far as goalies are concerned, Columbus only has Denis under contract.  I'll bet you they're not done with the free agent market.  They're not stacked with goalies in the system, so I would look for them to make a move.  My bets are Curtis Joseph or Sean Burke.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 3, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> My bets are Curtis Joseph or Sean Burke.




Do they have money/cap room to try for Khabibulin?


----------



## devilbat (Aug 3, 2005)

> Do they have money/cap room to try for Khabibulin?




They have both, but it's unlikely they will be able to sign Khabby.

Columbus seems to be the antithesis of the apathy that is in many U.S hockey markets.  The Bluejackets have a season ticket base of 12,000, and they average 17,376 per game.  Those are some pretty good numbers.  so money is not a problem.  They were sitting at approx. 17 million with 17 players under contract prior to Foote signing.  So now they sit at 21 million/18 players.  Still plenty of room for a pricey goalie.

I doubt Khabibulin will leave Tampa Bay.  He's a god to floridian hockey fans, and word is that the Lightning want him back.  Without Khabibulin, I think they are an above average team, but not a repeat champ.  I can see an older goalie in Columbus.  Someone who will get a guaranteed number of games, and who wants to get one last kick at the cat.  CuJo would be a great fit.  Especially after the lousy experience he had in Detroit.


----------



## Kaodi (Aug 3, 2005)

*Hockey...*

'Twould be ironic if this is the year the Leafs take home Lord Stanley's Cup since way back before I was born. Go Leafs, Go.

On another note, it really, really ticks me off that the fans of cities like Toronro, Montreal and Vancouver will have to support cities that shouldn't be fielding a team in the NHL. Somewhere I read that Canadian teams make up over 50% of the revenue of the entire NHL for television. Do the math. Grrr...


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 3, 2005)

Kaodi said:
			
		

> 'Twould be ironic if this is the year the Leafs take home Lord Stanley's Cup since way back before I was born. Go Leafs, Go.




What would be ironic about that? Golf Leafs Golf 

But I don't think it's the leaf's year as they now have most of their cap tied up in Brian McCabe, Mats Sundin and Ed Belfour.

Leaves the rest of the team a little thin.



> On another note, it really, really ticks me off that the fans of cities like Toronro, Montreal and Vancouver will have to support cities that shouldn't be fielding a team in the NHL. Somewhere I read that Canadian teams make up over 50% of the revenue of the entire NHL for television. Do the math. Grrr...




I don't know if I'm 100% against it.

A) I don't really care if Vancouver's owner (McCaw) makes less coin. With the cap it's not like it was going back into the team anyhow.

B) Certain of the unlikely Expansion Franchises have solid hockey fans behind them: Columbus, Nashville, Minnesota...even Atlanta seems serious this time around.

C) I'm not certain that revenue sharing (even the half-baked version practiced by the NHL now) will hurt the league in any way (Again, given the cap) and seems to be actually making every franchise competitive if this whole UFA week has been any example.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 3, 2005)

Local media is reporting that Vancouver has re-signed league-leading scorer and team Captain *Markus Naslund*

Whew!


----------



## King_Stannis (Aug 3, 2005)

It will be interesting to see if Crosby has an immediate impact with my Pens.


----------



## spatha (Aug 3, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I
> 
> Which leaves Goal. Denis isn't really a disaster or anything, but let's just say that I expect the focus of this team to be _outscoring _their opponents
> 
> Still quite a team for such a young franchise




See I think Dennis is a damn good goalie. The odd game or two he played for Colorado he did good. He also backstopped, I believe it was the Team Canada Juniors and was amazing there. With the addition of Foote this hould take some pressure off of him. I think he will mature to be the next Roy/Broduer.


----------



## Davek (Aug 3, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Sorry, that question comes too close to violating my "Closet Gamer" status.



 No problem, just curious.


----------



## Arnwyn (Aug 3, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> B) Certain of the unlikely Expansion Franchises have solid hockey fans behind them: ... Nashville ...even Atlanta seems serious this time around.



Funniest thing I've read in a while in the context of the replied-to quote.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 3, 2005)

I love hockey talk.





> But I don't think it's the leaf's year as they now have most of their cap tied up in Brian McCabe, Mats Sundin and Ed Belfour.




Agreed.  Also let it be said that I hate the Leafs.



> It will be interesting to see if Crosby has an immediate impact with my Pens.




I think he will, short term at the box office if nothing else.  I wonder if he will help attract other top tier players to Pittsburgh?  Rumor is that Kovalev will be coming back to the team.  A potential power play of Lemieux, Crosby and Recchi, with Kovalev on the point is pretty exciting.



> See I think Dennis is a damn good goalie...... He also backstopped, I believe it was the Team Canada Juniors and was amazing there......I think he will mature to be the next Roy/Broduer.




Denis is a great backup.  If I was a GM, I would love to have him on my team in that role.  He absolutely does not have the skills to be an everyday goalie though, IMO.  There is no way he will ever be a Brodeur or Roy type.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 3, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Denis is a great backup.  If I was a GM, I would love to have him on my team in that role.  He absolutely does not have the skills to be an everyday goalie though, IMO.  There is no way he will ever be a Brodeur or Roy type.




I agree there. The guy is a classic example of "Solid but unexceptional". nothing wrong with that, it's a great trait...in a backup.

But you, me and everyone else have seen Goalies go on streaks. It can happen to any of them (i'm hoping Kiprusoff's has ended during the lockout ) So i still think that Columbus is looking good.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 3, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Agreed.  Also let it be said that I hate the Leafs...




I don't.

I liked them a lot when they had Kirk Muller, Doug Gilmour and Wendell Clarke. Nice blue-collar team. Workmanlike. Fierce.

The new bunch are also (or rather 'were also') to my liking, if a little old. Particularly Joe Nieuwendyk and Brian Leetch. but nopw what are they left with after Sundin/McCabe/Belfour?

Darcy Tucker?

Tie Domi?

Bleah.

I also like their coach, Pat Quinn...he took Vancouver to the Stanley Cup finals when he was here


----------



## Lefferts (Aug 3, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I think he will, short term at the box office if nothing else.  I wonder if he will help attract other top tier players to Pittsburgh?  Rumor is that Kovalev will be coming back to the team.  A potential power play of Lemieux, Crosby and Recchi, with Kovalev on the point is pretty exciting.




Add in Gonchar to that powerplay. Excellent offensive defensman, but I don't know about $25 million for 5 years. Seems a bit much to me.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 3, 2005)

OK, so Pittsburgh signs Gonchar for 5 Million per season.  I agree with Lefferts, thats too much for a defenseman that doesn't play defense.  Kovalev re-signs in Montreal, so there ends those rumors.

Markus Naslund officially re-signs with the Cunucks.  A collective sigh of relief goes over the west coast of Canada.  I have to believe that Naslund re-signing helps in keeping Bertuzzi in Vancouver.  Sopel gets sent to the Island.  One more of the leagues worst hair styles leaving Canada.  I hope mullets are cool in Long Island.

Teflon Billy, could you elaborate on the rumors of Bertuzzi wanting to leave.  We outside of Vancouver have heard very little of the reasons why, outside of "he would like a fresh, new start".

Oilers trade for Pronger.  Wow, I love the new NHL, where anyone can sign anybody.  Why would they trade Brewer though.  I hate to say it, but St Louis gets a better long term package.

Flames re-sign Iggy and bring in Amonte.  Nice to be a Flames fan today.

Leetch goes to Boston, nice move Sinden, even better since it's only a one year deal.


----------



## Lefferts (Aug 4, 2005)

Just heard on Philadelphia radio that the Flyers have signed Peter Forsberg. To make room under the salary cap, Jeremy Roenick is being traded to the Kings. They had JR on the radio and he talked around it a bit, but seemed to confirm both the signing and the trade.

If Forsberg gets around $6.5 to $7 million, I think the Flyers will have to dump some more salary, especially after yesterdays signings of Hatcher, Rathje, and Therien.

Forsberg's only about 10 years late (the Flyers were the team that drafted him and stupidly included him in the Lindros trade.)

Can anyone tell that I am a Flyers fan?


----------



## devilbat (Aug 4, 2005)

> Can anyone tell that I am a Flyers fan?




The Flyers are setting themselves up to be great.  BUT, as always, the goaltending is suspect.  If Robert Esche plays the way he did last year, the team is a Stanley Cup contender.  If he falters, so goes the team.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 4, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> The Flyers are setting themselves up to be great.  BUT, as always, the goaltending is suspect.  If Robert Esche plays the way he did last year, the team is a Stanley Cup contender.  If he falters, so goes the team.




I thought Esche proved himself in international play. He looked like the real deal.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 4, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> ...Teflon Billy, could you elaborate on the rumors of Bertuzzi wanting to leave.  We outside of Vancouver have heard very little of the reasons why, outside of "he would like a fresh, new start"...




Well, honestly, you've "officially" heard about as much as we have. 

But Bertuzzi has some real personality conflict with our wildly popular coach, is not the biggest fan of doing "community stuff" (which, under GM Brian Burke's watch, you damn well _did _or you got driven to the airport), didn't like the idea of playing without Naslund and was really insulted during his first serious negotiation by a lot of the stuff the other side said to drive his price down.

The locals love the guy though.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 4, 2005)

> But Bertuzzi has some real personality conflict with our wildly popular coach, is not the biggest fan of doing "community stuff" (which, under GM Brian Burke's watch, you damn well did or you got driven to the airport), didn't like the idea of playing without Naslund and was really insulted during his first serious negotiation by a lot of the stuff the other side said to drive his price down.




Awww man, I just lost so much respect for the guy (and yes I still respected him after the punch to "poor Steve Moore").  He sounds so much more like a prima donna ass clown then I expected.

I guess I understand the Crawford personality situation.  He's not the first guy that has clashed with him.  The community service thing surprises me though.  Every opportunity I've had to get him to sign stuff, has been great. (My other hobby is collecting sports memorabillia).  Considering what he has gone through in the last two years, and what the league has gone through, he had better change his tune towards the fans, right quick.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 4, 2005)

> I thought Esche proved himself in international play. He looked like the real deal.




He was great in the World Championships, but I want to see him in the playoffs, after playing in 60+ regular season games.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 4, 2005)

Crap, Scott Niedermeyer goes to the ducks


----------



## Gomez (Aug 4, 2005)

> Mike Modano will be staying with the Dallas Stars after all. Hours after backing out of a verbal deal, Modano agreed Wednesday night to a five-year contract to remain with the only team he's played for in the NHL. Modano -- the club's career leader in goals, points, assists and games played -- ended up taking the same $17.25 million deal he accepted Tuesday night then declined Wednesday afternoon.




If Dallas had not resigned Modano the fans would have revolted here in Big D! Modano IS the Dallas Stars.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 4, 2005)

> Crap, Scott Niedermeyer goes to the ducks




Too bad, I had hoped he would end up in Vancouver.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 4, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Too bad, I had hoped he would end up in Vancouver.




You and me both 

Honestly, I'm not too bummed with the lineup we have, but Niedermeyer would've been the "Capstone on the Pyramid" so to speak


----------



## Lefferts (Aug 4, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> The Flyers are setting themselves up to be great.  BUT, as always, the goaltending is suspect.  If Robert Esche plays the way he did last year, the team is a Stanley Cup contender.  If he falters, so goes the team.




He played well in the 2004 playoffs, but he only played about half the regular season games. The Flyers also have some confidence in Antero Niittymaki, who will be the backup this season. He led the Philadelphia Phantoms to the AHL championship this past year.



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Crap, Scott Niedermeyer goes to the ducks




Everything I read suggested that he really wanted to play with his brother. At least he's no longer with the Devils.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 5, 2005)

> Everything I read suggested that he really wanted to play with his brother.




Considering the fact that the Devils offered him more money then the Ducks, I'd say the family factor, as well as playing on the west coast were huge factors.


How about them Bruins?  Isbister, Leetch, Zhamnov, Murray,and McEachern.  Has Harry Sinden won the lottery?


----------



## devilbat (Aug 5, 2005)

Somebody please explain Khabibulin signing with the Blackhawks.  The guy leaves the Stanley Cup Champions to sign with a non playoff team.  The same team that every other free agent has avoided like the plague.  Hell,Peter Forsberg was offered more money by Chicago then by Philly, but he wanted to win.  Khabby is obviously looking less for another ring, then he is for more bling.

Does anyone else find it sad how far the stock of Paul Kariya has tumbled?  I mean c'mon, Nashville?  Nashville?


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 6, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Somebody please explain Khabibulin signing with the Blackhawks.  The guy leaves the Stanley Cup Champions to sign with a non playoff team.  The same team that every other free agent has avoided like the plague.  Hell,Peter Forsberg was offered more money by Chicago then by Philly, but he wanted to win.  Khabby is obviously looking less for another ring, then he is for more bling.




Well, it's not uncommon for most Russian players to chase mojney first and foremost. I can only think it will be even more pronounced in the new regime.



> Does anyone else find it sad how far the stock of Paul Kariya has tumbled?  I mean c'mon, Nashville?  Nashville?




Kariya signed with Nashville?

Dammit. I'm beginning to think Naslund might be our only big UFA signing.


----------



## Mista Collins (Aug 6, 2005)

I am happy that the NHL and the player's Union agreed to a CBA. Unfortantely, I don't like the terms that much. My poor home team (Detroit) is going to see some major changes.

Darren McCarty gone, Ray Whiteny gone, Darien Hatcher gone. Three high-profile veterans gone.

Good news though, The Captain Stevie Y is back and they got rid of Dave Lewis and made Mike Babcock the coach. Brendan Shanahan excersized his 2005-06 contract option. And Chris Chelios and Mathieu Schneider are coming back.

It will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Lefferts (Aug 6, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Well, it's not uncommon for most Russian players to chase mojney first and foremost. I can only think it will be even more pronounced in the new regime.




This was my first thought when I heard about this signing, but I think he may regret his decision.



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Kariya signed with Nashville?
> 
> Dammit. I'm beginning to think Naslund might be our only big UFA signing.




Who's left on the market? I know Leclair is still out there, but he hasn't been the same since he hurt his back.  Bondra? Any interest in him?  I also think Ziggy Palffy is available. It might not take much to get some of these guys - they may be getting desparate.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 6, 2005)

Lefferts said:
			
		

> Who's left on the market? I know Leclair is still out there, but he hasn't been the same since he hurt his back.  Bondra? Any interest in him?  I also think Ziggy Palffy is available. It might not take much to get some of these guys - they may be getting desparate.




I'd love to see Peter Bondra hre for 2 million.


----------



## Mista Collins (Aug 6, 2005)

*Move in the Free Agent world
(x-denotes player was bought out and can’t re-sign with previous club; y-free agent since July 1, 2004)*

*Forwards*
y-Jason Allison, Los Angeles (signed with Toronto)
x-Tony Amonte, Philadelphia (signed with Calgary) 
Dave Andreychuck, Tampa Bay 
y-Peter Bondra, Ottawa 
Andrew Brunette, Minnesota
y-Valeri Bure, Dallas
y-Anson Carter, Los Angeles
Vincent Dampousse, Colorado  
y-Pavol Demitra, St. Louis (signed with Los Angeles) 
Tie Domi, Toronto (re-signed with Toronto)
 y-Peter Forsberg, Colorado (signed with Philadelphia)
y-Ron Francis, Toronto 
Martin Gelinas, Calgary (signed with Florida)
Chris Gratton, Colorado
x-Bobby Holik, N.Y. Rangers (signed with Atlanta) 
x-Matt Johnson, Minnesota
y-Paul Kariya, Colorado (signed with Nashville)
y-Alexei Kovalev, Montreal (re-signed with Montreal)
Martin Lapointe, Boston (signed with Chicago)
x-John LeClair, Philadelphia
 y-Eric Lindros, N.Y. Rangers 
Brad May, Vancouver (signed with Colorado)
x-Darren McCarty, Detroit (signed with Calgary)
Shawn McEachern, Atlanta (signed with Boston)
y-Mark Messier, N.Y. Rangers 
Mike Modano, Dallas (re-signed with Dallas)
Alexander Mogilny, Toronto 
Glen Murray, Boston (re-signed with Boston)
Markus Naslund, Vancouver (re-signed with Vancouver)
Joe Nieuwendyk, Toronto (signed with Florida)
y-Andrei Nikolishin, Colorado
y-Ziggy Palffy, Los Angeles
y-Yanic Perreault, Montreal
Gary Roberts, Toronto (signed with Florida)
Luc Robitaille, Los Angeles (re-signed with Los Angeles)
y-Martin Rucinsky, Vancouver (signed with New York Rangers)
Miroslav Satan, Buffalo (signed with New York Islanders)
x-Brian Savage, Phoenix
y-Teemu Selanne, Colorado 
y-Cory Stillman, Tampa Bay (signed with Carolina)
Martin Straka, Los Angeles (signed with New York Rangers)
y-Jozef Stumpel, Los Angeles
y-Steve Thomas, Detroit
x-Pierre Turgeon, Dallas (signed with Colorado)
y-Shaun Van Allen, Ottawa
x-Ray Whitney, Detroit
y-Scott Young, Dallas
S teve Yzerman, Detroit (re-signed with Detroit) 
y-Alexei Zhamnov, Philadelphia (signed with Boston)

*Defensemen*
Adrian Aucoin, N.Y. Islanders (signed with Chicago)
y-Murray Baron, St. Louis
Bryan Berard, Chicago (signed with Columbus)
Patrice Brisebois, Montreal
Mathieu Dandenault, Detroit (signed with Montreal)
Adam Foote, Colorado (signed with Columbus) 
Sergei Gonchar, Boston (signed with Pittsburgh)
y-Roman Hamrlik, N.Y. Islanders
x-Derian Hatcher, Detroit (signed with Philadelphia) 
x-Scott Lachance, Columbus
Brian Leetch, Toronto (signed with Boston)
y-Vladimir Malakhov, Philadelphia (signed with New Jersey)
y-Bryan Marchment, Toronto
y-Dan McGillis, Philadelphia (signed with New Jersey)
Scott Niedermayer, New Jersey (signed with Anaheim)
y-Teppo Numminen, Dallas (signed with Buffalo)
y-James Patrick, Buffalo
Stephane Quintal, Los Angeles
Brian Rafalski, New Jersey (re-signed with New Jersey)
Marcus Ragnarsson, Philadelphia
Mike Rathje, San Jose (signed with Philadelphia)
y-Mathieu Schneider, Detroit 
Martin Skoula, Anaheim (signed with Dallas)
y-Jiri Slegr, Boston
y-Jaroslav Spacek, Columbus (signed with Chicago)
Scott Stevens, New Jersey 
Igor Ulanov, Edmonton (re-signed with Edmonton)
Glen Wesley, Carolina
y-Alexei Zhitnik, Buffalo (signed with New York Islanders)
Sergei Zubov, Dallas (re-signed with Dallas)

*Goalies*
Sean Burke, Philadelphia
Roman Cechmanek, Los Angeles
y-Byron Dafoe, Atlanta
Mike Dunham, N.Y. Rangers
Arturs Irbe, Columbus
Curtis Joseph, Detroit 
Nikolai Khabibulin, Tampa Bay (signed with Chicago) 
y-Chris Osgood, St. Louis
y-Steve Shields, Florida
y-Ron Tugnutt, Dallas


----------



## Mista Collins (Aug 6, 2005)

Some good goalies waiting to be snatched up.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 6, 2005)

> Well, it's not uncommon for most Russian players to chase money first and foremost.




Agreed.  I know money was the factor with Khabby.  But why would the hawks sign him to four years, for that much money?  The contract is too long and too high.  Don't get me wrong.  I love watching Khabby play.  I have very fond memories of him here in Winnipeg, but there is no way he deserves to be paid on par with Martin Brodeur.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 6, 2005)

> My poor home team (Detroit) is going to see some major changes.
> 
> Darren McCarty gone, Ray Whiteny gone, Darien Hatcher gone. Three high-profile veterans gone.




The Redwings have been "haves" ina  league of "Have nots" for many years.  It's about time we see a collective bargaining agreement that will work for both groups, and create a little parity through the league.

Of the three guys you listed, I think the only significant loss you suffered was Darren McCarty.  His leadership and on ice toughness will be sorely missed.  The Flames are a muche better team with him on it.  Hatcher was a complte failure in Detroit, and Whitney, while usefull, is not worth what the Redwings were paying him.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 6, 2005)

> Some good goalies waiting to be snatched up.




Overall, I disagree with that statement.  Chris Osgood, Steve Shields, Ron Tugnutt, Byron Dafoe, Mike Dunham and Arturs Irbe are pretty much done.  Cechmanek has always been highly overrated (IMO), Burke makes an amazing backup or a one year starter.  Joseph is the only guy I'd be interested in, if I was a GM and looking for a starter.


----------



## Mista Collins (Aug 6, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Overall, I disagree with that statement. Chris Osgood, Steve Shields, Ron Tugnutt, Byron Dafoe, Mike Dunham and Arturs Irbe are pretty much done. Cechmanek has always been highly overrated (IMO), Burke makes an amazing backup or a one year starter. Joseph is the only guy I'd be interested in, if I was a GM and looking for a starter.




I was kind of glad to see that Detroit didn't go with Cujo again. I am impressed Manny Legaces ability in between the pipes. I think Burke is a fairly solid goalie. Chris Ozgood played more games in the 2003-2004 season and put up better numbers than both Curtis Joseph and Khabibulan. Cechmanek is a very on/off player, but when he is on, he is really on. You are right about most those goalies being pretty much done though. But I still think it would be helpful for some of the teams out there lacking in a solid goalie to pick one of these guys up.

Of all the teamss that could have gotten McCarty, I am glad Calgary did. The problem with Hatcher on the Wings was that he was injured most the year and only played like a fifth of the season. With his ACL surgery, his shoulder, and a few suspended games he put up decent numbers. Nothing great, nothing horrible. It will be interesting to see how things work out as the league goes through this big change.


----------



## devilbat (Aug 7, 2005)

> I am impressed Manny Legaces ability in between the pipes.




I think Legace is great, but I'm not convinced he's an everday guy.



> Chris Osgood played more games in the 2003-2004 season and put up better numbers than both Curtis Joseph and Khabibulan.




Joseph had to deal with the Hasek situation and injury, and Khabby diidn't find his form until mid season, that's true.  But he did win the Cup for Tampa Bay.  Osgood is a proven play-off choke artist, as a Redwing fan, you've seen this first hand.



> Cechmanek is a very on/off player, but when he is on, he is really on.




more off then on since his early days in Philly.  Remember the year he made the all star team, and he was absolutely slaughtered in the skills competition?  He had one Steve Penney
like season, and then shipped to la la land.



> But I still think it would be helpful for some of the teams out there lacking in a solid goalie to pick one of these guys up.




You're right, all would be strong back ups, with the exception of Irbe, I really think he's done.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Aug 8, 2005)

Vancouver is a graveyard for goalies as a rule (Cloutier notwithstanding)

We've had Artus Irbe, Sean Burke, Felix Potvin and a host of others...they all seem to come here, play like spastic, blind paraplegics and invariably get the crowd behind the backup

I never thought I'd see a sight like useless Felix Potvin standing in net, giving another lame, useless performance....and the crowd beggining to chant "WE WANT BOB!" hoping that their hero, Bob Essensa would get between the pipes.

Same thing happned with Burke and Garth Snow.

Funny as hell.


----------



## Mista Collins (Aug 8, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I think Legace is great, but I'm not convinced he's an everday guy.
> Osgood is a proven play-off choke artist, as a Redwing fan, you've seen this first hand.
> 
> You're right, all would be strong back ups, with the exception of Irbe, I really think he's done.




I think Legace is a very capable everyday huy. Not the greatest by far, but he did a great thing with the Wings the last season.

I feel sorry for whomever decides to pickup Osgood. He had I think one good post-season with the Red Wing

And I agree that Irbe is probably done.

Who do you think is gonna be one of the strongest teams this year?


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 8, 2005)

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Who do you think is gonna be one of the strongest teams this year?




I know you didn't ask me, but...

Columbus
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton

and maybe...

Pittsburgh.

Looks like my conference will be interesting


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## Lefferts (Aug 8, 2005)

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Who do you think is gonna be one of the strongest teams this year?




It's hard to say since we don't know how the year off will affect some of the older stars and how teams will mesh together since a lot of teams have lots of new players.

That being said, I think the Flyers are going to be great!


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## Welverin (Aug 8, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> and maybe...
> 
> Pittsburgh.




Which begs the question, what's up with them? Did they build a new arena without me hearing about it?



			
				Lefferts said:
			
		

> That being said, I think the Flyers are going to be great!




Not unless they figure out how to get some more wingers, Gane and Kapanen may be good, but not enough to make up for four other guys.


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## Mista Collins (Aug 8, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I know you didn't ask me, but...




This question was for anyone wanting to answer .

I would love to see Pittsburg be a strong team. Then Crosby can live up to all this hype. I have watched him play a lot and he impresses me. But with the season they had in 2003-2004, I don't see them being that strong.

 Vancouver?  Vancouver?! VANCOUVER?!.... as a Red Wings fan I am required to dislike them.  (But do agree they will be a strong team this season.

I don't think my home town team will be that strong this season, but I see them making the playoffs and dropping at some point during the playoffs (per usual).

I don't think Columbus picked up the players they need to go from the losing season they had last year (2nd to last in Conference), to being a strong team this year.

And i agree that the flyers could use some more wingers, but I think they are looking pretty strong with the roster they have right now.


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## Welverin (Aug 8, 2005)

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> And i agree that the flyers could use some more wingers, but I think they are looking pretty strong with the roster they have right now.




I was looking at their roster a few days ago and other than Gagne, Kap, and Brashear they're all young guys I'm not familiar with. I don't keep up with the minor leagues or juniors, if anyone knows about some of them and could comment I'd be glad to hear it.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Aug 8, 2005)

There was a great quote in the Boston Globe yesterday:



> Yes, it's the new salary cap era, but boy, the first week of unrestricted free agency produced a lot of TJ Maxx value at Neiman Marcus prices.




If somehow the Bruins sign Thornton and Samsonov, we will have spent almost $26 million towards the cap on seven players.  That would leave $13 million to fill out the remaining 13-16 slots.  Hmmm...


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## Lefferts (Aug 8, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> I was looking at their roster a few days ago and other than Gagne, Kap, and Brashear they're all young guys I'm not familiar with. I don't keep up with the minor leagues or juniors, if anyone knows about some of them and could comment I'd be glad to hear it.




Jeff Carter and Mike Richards are both 2003 first-round picks who played in the AHL playoffs last year after their junior teams were eliminated from the postseason. Carter led the AHL in playoff scoring and the Flyers are looking at him as a RW with Forsberg and Gagne. Richards also played in the AHL playoffs, scoring 7 goals and 8 assists in 14 games. He was named the captain of Team Canada at the World Junior Championships in 2005. (Canada won the Gold). A good face-off and penalty-killer, he is being looked at as a center right now. That may change with all the natural centers the Flyers have on their roster.

They also signed Mike Knuble before the lockout. He can score when given ice time with some good players.

Where the Flyers (and a lot of other teams, I expect) will have problems is with injuries. If their top line players get hurt, they are not going to be able to replace them.


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## devilbat (Aug 9, 2005)

> I feel sorry for whomever decides to pickup Osgood. He had I think one good post-season with the Red Wing




Mista Collins, dude, I'm so sorry.  Ozzie signed with your Redwings today.




> Who do you think is gonna be one of the strongest teams this year?




Philly - As long as Esche stays strong.  Don't worry about the wingers, the rookies (Carter and Richards) will tear it up.

Ottawa - Until the playoffs, they'll be one of the best in the league.

Edmonton - Look for a fast and re-tooled team.


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## Mista Collins (Aug 9, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Mista Collins, dude, I'm so sorry.  Ozzie signed with your Redwings today.




I saw this also. It does not make me happy, but thinking about it I did come to soem conclusions. Legace fought to be the wings starting and I am sure doesn't want to give it up. Ozgood probably wants to prove he deserves the starting spot he once had in Detroit. This is gonna create a lot of competition, and hopeful Detroit will benefit as both players try and compete at their highest level possible. I guess I can go back to cheering for Ozzie, or "The Wizard". Should be interesting either way.


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## Mista Collins (Aug 9, 2005)

Thinking about it, I think we should have a fantasy hockey league between a bunch of us ENWorlders. Infact, I am gonna see if there is enough interest.


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## devilbat (Aug 9, 2005)

> Legace fought to be the wings starting and I am sure doesn't want to give it up.




Wow, did Detroit surprise me with that signing.  In the recent past, the Redwings have gone after big name goaltenders.  As far as i'm concerned, Osgood is a huge step backwards.  I hope Legace gets the starter job.  He deserves it.


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## Knightfall (Aug 9, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Edmonton - Look for a fast and re-tooled team.




I'm very excited about the Oilers this year. The Oiler blueline was already solid with Marc-Andre Bergeron, Cory Cross, Alexei Semenov, Jason Smith, and Steve Staios before re-signing Igor Ulanov and trading for Chris Pronger. (The Oilers also have Jason Platt, Mathieu Roy, and Ken Smith signed up for the coming season.)

In goal, they have both Jussi Markkanen and Ty Conklin signed, as well as Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers.

Besides Peca, they have the following key forwards signed already: Ethan Moreau, Fernando Pisani, Todd Harvey, Georges Laraque, and Radek Dvorak, as well as many young prospects who will be trying to crack the lineup.

Edmonton's restricted free agents are Ales Hemsky*, Michael Morrison, Shawn Horcoff*, Marty Reasoner*, Jani Rita*, Tony Salmelainen, Ryan Smyth*, Jarret Stoll, Raffi Torres*, and Brad Winchester. Edmonton's unrestricted free agents are Sean McAslan, Tyler Moss, Dan Smith, Rocky Thompson, Mike Bishai, Joe Cullen, and Jamie Wright.

Players marked with an asterisk are those I really want the Oilers to re-sign, especially Hemsky, Horcoff, and Smyth. I could see Reasoner and Torres being used as trade bait in order to get a bigger name from a team trying to lower its overall salary, and I would be fine with that. Jani Rita is a excellent young prospect that has been improving over the last few years and this could be his best chance to find a spot on the roster.

The Edmonton Oilers have currently allocated $23,884,000 US of their $39 million US Salary Cap, as per the estimated numbers on www.tsn.ca. This gives them lots of breathing room if they can get their key free agents signed at a good price. Smyth will be the player who gets the largest contract.

Cheers!

KF72

p.s. I'll post the latest 2005-2006 salary numbers on the thread I started, so that everyone can compare their favorite teams.


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## ssampier (Aug 9, 2005)

The National league stinks, but last year's events forced me to realize good hockey is as close as my minor league team. Oh yeah...*

*not to mention I don't have a professional team in my state*


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## devilbat (Aug 9, 2005)

> The National league stinks, but last year's events forced me to realize good hockey is as close as my minor league team.




I guess I'll agree with your point about minor league hockey being entertaining, if that was indeed your point, other then just slamming the NHL.  

This past year I really gtot to enjoy our hometown Manitoba Moose, who is the AHL affiliate to the Vancouver Cunucks.  I came to love the AHL because the guys on those clubs work their butts off *every single night*.  You don't see any Jaromir Jagr taking a night off when visiting Carolina type play in the AHL.


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## devilbat (Aug 9, 2005)

Oh and by the way, for Knightfall 1972.

Georges Laraque is the toughest and classiest tough guy in the league.  He stands up for his teammates, he doesn't turtle, and he'll fight anybody on any team.  He doesn't pick and choose.


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 9, 2005)

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Thinking about it, I think we should have a fantasy hockey league between a bunch of us ENWorlders. Infact, I am gonna see if there is enough interest.




I'm in. Please let me now when you have the details ironed out.


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 9, 2005)

Knightfall1972 said:
			
		

> ...Players marked with an asterisk are those I really want the Oilers to re-sign, especially Hemsky, Horcoff, and Smyth...




Smyth is the heart and soul of that Team. i hope they don't take the "C" away and put it on Pronger.


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 9, 2005)

In a surprising move, Vancouver sign's Minnesota's *Richard Park*.

Good acquisition if you ask me. Park was a decent player in the Vancouver/Minnesota series, and absolutely _shone_ in international play.

I think with the game opened up, Park could become a really big contributor.


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 9, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Oh and by the way, for Knightfall 1972.
> 
> Georges Laraque is the toughest and classiest tough guy in the league.  He stands up for his teammates, he doesn't turtle, and he'll fight anybody on any team.  He doesn't pick and choose.




Yup, agreed. 

Laraque is 100% cool.


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## spatha (Aug 9, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I never thought I'd see a sight like useless Felix Potvin standing in net, giving another lame, useless performance....and the crowd beggining to chant "WE WANT BOB!" hoping that their hero, Bob Essensa would get between the pipes.



*sheds a tear for goalie Bob.




			
				Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Who do you think is gonna be one of the strongest teams this year?



All 3 western Canadian Teams, Ottawa, Pitsburgh.
I am thinking and dreaming this could be the year the cup comes home to Canada.


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## devilbat (Aug 9, 2005)

> *sheds a tear for goalie Bob.




I thought Goalie Bob (Essensa) was awesome when he was a miracle worker here in Winnipeg.  If only he had not been the team representative for the previous collective bargaining agreement, which assured him A) a huge contrat that would be almost impossible to live up to, and B) the utter hattred of Barry Shenkerow and Mike Smith, the owner and the GM of the Jets at the time.  His trade to Detroit was terrible for both him and the Jets, and it took him a long time to recover.  At least he ended his career on a high note, having stellar seasons as a backup in Edmonton, Phoenix and Vancouver.

One of his autographed sticks hangs in my office to this day.


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 9, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I thought Goalie Bob (Essensa) was awesome when he was a miracle worker here in Winnipeg.  If only he had not been the team representative for the previous collective bargaining agreement, which assured him A) a huge contrat that would be almost impossible to live up to, and B) the utter hattred of Barry Shenkerow and Mike Smith, the owner and the GM of the Jets at the time.  His trade to Detroit was terrible for both him and the Jets, and it took him a long time to recover.  At least he ended his career on a high note, having stellar seasons as a backup in Edmonton, Phoenix and Vancouver.
> 
> One of his autographed sticks hangs in my office to this day.




Vancouver fans _loved_ "Sideshow Bob"

Potvin showed up here, got a fat contract, and began to suck almost immediately. Fo a goalie of Potvin's reputation it was uncanny. He was _awful_.

He routinely got pulled in favor of Essensa who--every time he was put in--delivered a solid, workmanlike performance. You could score on him, but it wouldn't _rattle_ him. 

He didn't get on streaks either good or bad. He simply _was_

It was like watching a (non-obese) Buddha play Goal.

He was also class in interviews.

Interviewer: "Hey Bob, why, when your stats are so much better than Felix's, are you still the backup? Isn't it about time you became the starter?"

Essensa: "No. you see what a lot of people don't understand is that the rest of the team trusts in Felix's skills so much more than mine, that they tend to play a lot tighter defensively around me; simply becasue they know I can't match Felix in skills. It's a necessity that takes away from the team's offense..."

Literally. the guy never had anything but incredible--and largely nonsensical-- praise for Felix Potvin, even when 2 minutes into the first period the Vancouver fans were deafening chanting for Sideshow Bob to put in.

Next year they traded both of them. It was a baffling move from a baffling period in Canucks history.


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## Lefferts (Aug 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> In a surprising move, Vancouver sign's Minnesota's *Richard Park*.
> 
> Good acquisition if you ask me. Park was a decent player in the Vancouver/Minnesota series, and absolutely _shone_ in international play.
> 
> I think with the game opened up, Park could become a really big contributor.




Park has some fantastic speed that should be a big asset, *if* the game really does open up.


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## Teflon Billy (Aug 10, 2005)

Lefferts said:
			
		

> *if* the game really does open up.




Exactly


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## Welverin (Aug 10, 2005)

Lefferts said:
			
		

> Where the Flyers (and a lot of other teams, I expect) will have problems is with injuries. If their top line players get hurt, they are not going to be able to replace them.




Isn't this pretty much always the case for any team? It's rather rare in any sport now a days for a team to be stacked enough to be able to with stand the loss of their top players.

p.s. thanks for the info on the P-wings young guys.


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## devilbat (Aug 10, 2005)

> Isn't this pretty much always the case for any team? It's rather rare in any sport now a days for a team to be stacked enough to be able to with stand the loss of their top players.




Yes, yes it is.


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## devilbat (Aug 10, 2005)

> Park has some fantastic speed that should be a big asset, if the game really does open up.




Park will be a great addition to the Cunucks.  I attended a few of those Cunucks/Wild playoff games in Minneapolis a couple of years ago, and Park was very good.  A little under utilized in Minnesota's defense first system.  He'll also be a pretty big fan favorite in Vancouver, given his cultural background.  I think he'll help introduce a whole new group of fans to the NHL.


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## Welverin (Aug 10, 2005)

Lefferts said:
			
		

> Jeff Carter and Mike Richards are both 2003 first-round picks who played in the AHL playoffs last year after their junior teams were eliminated from the postseason. Carter led the AHL in playoff scoring and the Flyers are looking at him as a RW with Forsberg and Gagne. Richards also played in the AHL playoffs, scoring 7 goals and 8 assists in 14 games. He was named the captain of Team Canada at the World Junior Championships in 2005. (Canada won the Gold). A good face-off and penalty-killer, he is being looked at as a center right now. That may change with all the natural centers the Flyers have on their roster.




I was thinking of this earlier, which lead to the thought that as poorly as Clarke does signing and trading for vets, the Flyers do a good job drafting.


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## Lefferts (Aug 11, 2005)

Welverin said:
			
		

> Isn't this pretty much always the case for any team? It's rather rare in any sport now a days for a team to be stacked enough to be able to with stand the loss of their top players.




It is now in hockey. Before the lockout some of the bigger spenders (Flyers, Red Wings) could easily handle an injury or two.



			
				Welverin said:
			
		

> p.s. thanks for the info on the P-wings young guys.




No problem.


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## Lefferts (Aug 11, 2005)

ESPN is reporting that Toronto is close to a deal with Lindros.


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