# Walking Dead season 2 (spoilers)



## NewJeffCT (Nov 7, 2011)

I loved the show last year - I thought it was well done considering the genre might be hard to translate into a TV series.  It was usually very intense as well.

However, this year, they have some intense moments, but I don't see it all the time.  Things seem to be going too slowly (Sophia has been missing for 3 episodes now?) and it seems to be a lot of sitting around & waiting.  Dale & T-Dogg waiting with the camper... Rick & Lori waiting for Shane (and Otis, RIP)...   heck, they haven't even found out Hershel's surprise yet - we're still waiting.

There is a ton of good material in the graphic novels, and I had expected them to follow it somewhat closely, and with that general storyline, I had expected the show to become even more intense.

Anybody else have any input?


----------



## Spatula (Nov 8, 2011)

I feel like this season has been a lot more scary, or at least a lot more intense, than the 1st. I have found the stuff with Carl hanging by a razor's edge very compelling, and it's been difficult watching his parents go through that. And then there's end of the last episode... Whew! Intense.

EDIT: by this I mean what happens to Otis & Shane as they escape the school. I haven't seen the most recent episode yet.

I also appreciate the more philosophical tone that's been going on. The characters have been grappling with their place in the world/group. Why keep going? Why not quit? Most zombie movies address this briefly, but you don't get to see it unfold over time like this.


----------



## Mark CMG (Nov 8, 2011)

The roller caster ride the writers gave the audience regarding Carl and Otis was fairly compelling but it really feels strange that the Sophia situation has been drawn out so long.  I get the feeling that they wanted to clear the deck for what is to come.  It has been well woven between episodes this season but does have less immediate action.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 8, 2011)

I agree that the Sophia situation has dragged on a bit but at the same time, in TV time it's only been three days and my 'fretting' that she's gone has now turned into 'grief' (I say these in parenthesis because it's not like I'm genuinely feeling these things over a fictional character), because quite frankly after three days the chance of finding her alive is close to nil.

I also both love and loathe that Otis died. On the one hand, I thought he was a cool character and was really hoping he'd get out of the situation alive, especially after it seemed he was a goner and then out of the blue saved Shane's life. I was like, "Whoohoo! He's gonna make it! Yay for the fat man!"

And that made me feel his loss all the more. In the brief time he was in the show, the writers really made me care for him and make me all the more pissed off at Shane's actions. Without all that, I would've been much less inclined to hate Shane


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 8, 2011)

Mark CMG said:


> The roller caster ride the writers gave the audience regarding Carl and Otis was fairly compelling but it really feels strange that the Sophia situation has been drawn out so long.  I get the feeling that they wanted to clear the deck for what is to come.  It has been well woven between episodes this season but does have less immediate action.




True, there have been some compelling storylines, and I think they're setting things up well for future episodes.  However, I think all that has gone on could have been compressed into one less episode and kept it just as good.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 8, 2011)

On the side of stupid was last episode where they pulled the zombie out of the well. First of all, even attempting to drink that water after pulling the zombie out is just insanely retarded, so why pull it out? Second of all, wtf reason was there for sending the kid down there? Am I supposed to believe that no-one in ranch country knows how to tie a friggin lasso? And even if nobody knew how, any slip-knot would do to hook the zombie under the arms, sending someone down the well is just the height of idiocy and isn't something that anyone with an IQ above 80 would do.

It's that kind of crap that will turn me off watching if it continues. Surviving because you're smart and lucky is interesting, surviving despite being a complete moron isn't.


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Nov 8, 2011)

Kzach said:


> On the side of stupid was last episode where they pulled the zombie out of the well. First of all, even attempting to drink that water after pulling the zombie out is just insanely retarded, so why pull it out? Second of all, wtf reason was there for sending the kid down there? Am I supposed to believe that no-one in ranch country knows how to tie a friggin lasso? And even if nobody knew how, any slip-knot would do to hook the zombie under the arms, sending someone down the well is just the height of idiocy and isn't something that anyone with an IQ above 80 would do.
> 
> It's that kind of crap that will turn me off watching if it continues. Surviving because you're smart and lucky is interesting, surviving despite being a complete moron isn't.




As long as the Water Table itself is not over run with the virus eventually the well would filter itself out and be clean...that's most likely what they were thinking.


----------



## Mark CMG (Nov 8, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> True, there have been some compelling storylines, and I think they're setting things up well for future episodes.  However, I think all that has gone on could have been compressed into one less episode and kept it just as good.





I haven't read the graphic novels so my perspective on this is limited.


----------



## Fast Learner (Nov 8, 2011)

BrooklynKnight said:


> As long as the Water Table itself is not over run with the virus eventually the well would filter itself out and be clean...that's most likely what they were thinking.



That's the very reason I'd pull it out: if it hasn't polluted the water table yet, it certainly could, and either way, getting it out of the well -- and therefor water table -- is super important.

Not sure I'd be drinking water from any wells in the nearby area.


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Nov 8, 2011)

Fast Learner said:


> That's the very reason I'd pull it out: if it hasn't polluted the water table yet, it certainly could, and either way, getting it out of the well -- and therefor water table -- is super important.
> 
> Not sure I'd be drinking water from any wells in the nearby area.




100% Correct. I'm left wondering if they used buckets to get out as many of those entrails as possible before sealing it off. It might be safer to just dump a few bags of concrete mix down there to prevent it from leaching into the water table in the near future.


----------



## Bullgrit (Nov 14, 2011)

I've seen the discussions here about this show for a while now, but I never got a chance to see it. Then last night I saw three episodes in a row.

I love Zombie Apocalypse movies, and this has all the makings for something I'll love. I did find the show fun; I enjoyed it. But there were moments of "What were they thinking?"

Watching some ZA stories makes me think I'd be a survival god in the ZA. But I'd also be terrible entertainment if my survival story were made into a film or show. I'd not take dangerous chances, I'd not set up dumb dramatic moments, I'd separate from incompetent idiots and aggressive jerks, etc.

Bullgrit


----------



## Mark CMG (Nov 14, 2011)

They're adding a bit more mystery to the show.  I like it.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 14, 2011)

Bullgrit said:


> Watching some ZA stories makes me think I'd be a survival god in the ZA. But I'd also be terrible entertainment if my survival story were made into a film or show. I'd not take dangerous chances, I'd not set up dumb dramatic moments, I'd separate from incompetent idiots and aggressive jerks, etc.




Me too. In all honesty, I'd probably go solo 'cause people piss me off under just general circumstances and I can't see that trait improving in a ZA.

The worst thing about this series is that it never improves. They continue to do stupid crap all the time. My favourite quote of the series so far is from the preacher last episode, "It's a wonder you people have survived this long!"


----------



## Ahnehnois (Nov 14, 2011)

Not that I'm breaking any new ground here, but the way people behave in extreme situations in real life is not necessarily any better than the way they behave in fiction.

I'm pretty happy with the last few episides. The production values are excellent and the drama is unpredictable.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 14, 2011)

I'm starting to feel that only Daryl has any sense out of the lot of them. I would've said Glenn too before he went down the well. That made the last episode one of the best for me 'cause I was genuinely worried he might die. It's pretty obvious that deep down, he's not a racist and that he's just echoing his upbringing through his brother's influence so there's few reasons not to like the character. He's the most resourceful by a long shot, provides the most benefit to the group, wouldn't shoot you in the kneecap to make you zombie-food so you could run another hundred feet to safety and he's a crack shot with a silent weapon.


----------



## Joker (Nov 15, 2011)

Kzach said:


> I'm starting to feel that only Daryl has any sense out of the lot of them. I would've said Glenn too before he went down the well. That made the last episode one of the best for me 'cause I was genuinely worried he might die. It's pretty obvious that deep down, he's not a racist and that he's just echoing his upbringing through his brother's influence so there's few reasons not to like the character. He's the most resourceful by a long shot, provides the most benefit to the group, wouldn't shoot you in the kneecap to make you zombie-food so you could run another hundred feet to safety and he's a crack shot with a silent weapon.




This episode cemented my opinion of Daryl as my favorite character.  He is resourceful and self-sufficient.  Yet he still cares about the people around him.
I was afraid that he was going to feel isolated and become vindictive, especially after he was shot.  I was glad to see Carol showed him that they care about him as well.

I wonder what the walkers are doing in the barn.  I'm assuming they're family members and farm hands and the people in the farm didn't have the courage to put them down.  But if that's so, how did they get them there in first place.  There seems to be all sorts of logistical problems with that.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 15, 2011)

Joker said:


> I wonder what the walkers are doing in the barn.  I'm assuming they're family members and farm hands and the people in the farm didn't have the courage to put them down.  But if that's so, how did they get them there in first place.  There seems to be all sorts of logistical problems with that.




Remember Rick shouting out to the rest of them that Hershel wanted to take care of any walkers on his property? I'm going to guess that it's a God thing and Hershel thinks it's murder or something and that their souls can be redeemed or a cure can be found or he doesn't want to condemn their immortal souls to Hell or some equally demented excuse.


----------



## CrimsonReaver (Nov 16, 2011)

It's surprising and a little sad that Daryl is now the only likable character in the whole group.  Of course, this means they'll either make him pull a Shane, or kill him off before season's end.  And he'll probably end up dying for something stupid, like saving Sophia.  Ugh.

Seriously, does anyone even care about that girl anymore?  I mean, I had pretty much zero sympathy for her to begin with (if you're too stupid to follow simple instructions meant to keep you safe and alive, then screw you, you deserve to be eaten by zombies), but it's been so long since the girl was a part of the goings on that, even if I had cared, by this point I'd say I've written her off as lost and grieved for her death.  And, really, is there any outcome to the scenario that would be satisfying at this point?  Either she's alive (thanks, kid, a good man - Otis - had to die because you're a friggin' moron), or she's dead (boohoo, I'm so over it), or, if we're lucky, she's been zombified and we get to see someone put a bullet in her head.  But, in my opinion, none of those outcomes really justify all the time wasted - by which, I mean, the show time dedicated to the search, time that could've been used to advance the story, which is pretty damn precious since there are only 13 episodes to the season and we've spent how many now with people wandering in the woods?! - on looking for her.  Shy of Merle showing up, blitzed out of his mind on PCP, with the little girl's hand grafted onto his stump and wearing her face as a dead skin mask, back to slaughter everyone who left him on that roof, I'm not able to think of a resolution that'll leave me thinking, "That was so worth the wait, because the buildup really paid off in the end."


 Speaking of Merle, I'm glad they brought him up in this last episode.  Because, yeah, what the hell?  They made only a half-assed effort to search for *him*.  And Rick was even more responsible for Merle's situation than he was for Sophia's.  But, what, because he was a racist, druggie scumbag he wasn't worth looking for, possibly getting people killed for?  Some ripe hypocrisy on Rick's part there.

As for the zombies in the barn...yeah, I'd say it's a given that Herschel rounded up infected family, friends, farm hands and neighbors, or any walkers that strayed onto his property, and locked them up, not wanting to kill them for religious reasons or because he's just f'ed in the head.  Question is: now that Glenn stumbled upon the secret, will the chick push him into the zombie pit to keep him from telling Rick?  I kinda hope so.


----------



## Krug (Nov 16, 2011)

Well I kinda like Rick. Anyway those who read the comic books should know what happens after this. As for Sophia, you'd think they would have given up on her already. It's not the same world as it was, and even if she's not zombie chow yet, she likely will be.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 16, 2011)

Sophia's a McGuffin that gives them a reason for a) staying at Herchel's farm and b) doing character exposition, particularly on Daryl, as the only one with the survivalist chops to pull off the search effectively (maybe Rick and Shane too, but Rick is distracted and Shane is rapidly entering psychopath land). Her ultimate fate is irrelevant to the larger story, except that it might conceivably give Carole a few moments of through the roof hysterical mourning in the end.


----------



## jcayer (Nov 16, 2011)

As boring as the search for the little girl has been, it astounds me how stupid these people are...in regards to their host!
Herschel has given them a place to stay that is safe, he's provided for them medically, and they return the favor by stealing his horse, wandering around with guns, and not honoring his wishes about dealing with Walkers.  
To continue my vent, Andrea has got to be the worst character on the show.  She continues to be stupid and selfish.  I'd leave her behind before any of the other survivors.

I will agree, my wife and I both think Daryl is now the most likable character on the show.


----------



## Deset Gled (Nov 16, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> Sophia's a McGuffin that gives them a reason for a) staying at Herchel's farm and b) doing character exposition




Not to single you out Remus, but I think there's another factor here that some people are forgetting: Carl is still bedridden due to his gunshot wound.  It's only been about three days since that happened.  So, even if they weren't searching for Sophia, in all likelihood they would still be be hanging around Hershel's place for a least a few more days until it's safe to travel with Carl in the RV.  

Whether they search for Sophia is purely a question of what they should be doing with their time while they wait.  Shane's argument that they shouldn't keep looking is because he feels it's more likely that someone will get hurt or killed searching the zombie filled woods; Shane's argument isn't that they need to move out of Hershel's farm.  Rick's reason for continuing the search isn't just that he feels responsible or that he feels sympathetic to Sophia or Carol, it's also that he doesn't know what else to do with his time.  And I have a suspicion the Daryl would be out searching for Sophia even if Rick called off the search; he's too much of a loner to be satisfied hanging around with the rest of the group, and his emotions would probably force him to go searching even if especially if someone told him not to.

Of course, even though I can understand and sympathize with all of this, I have to agree that this season really seems to be dragging it's ass along as slowly as possible, and the search for Sophia seems to be eating up way more screen time than I'd like.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 16, 2011)

jcayer said:


> I will agree, my wife and I both think Daryl is now the most likable character on the show.




At least the most interesting one.  

I think if I was part of the group, I would kill them or go off on my own.  Not sure how much longer I will be able to take the show, stupid week after week is getting old...very old.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 16, 2011)

Oh I agree! It's a weak McGuffin for precisely that reason. If she were the only pretext for remaining on Herchel's farm, that would be one thing, but no one is really talking seriously about moving Carl at this point, and so the search doesn't really tie much together. I'm hoping that it will be some great dramatic reveal, but it would have to be pretty shattering in order to justify the pointlessness of the mystery. Sophia's either alive and we'll see a tearful reunion with her mom; dead, in which case we'll see a tragic meltdown by her mom; or zombiefied, in which case, if the laws of drama hold, her mother will be forced to be the one to put her down (or else Daryl will in order to spare Carole, thus solidifying their burgeoning relationship).


----------



## Mark CMG (Nov 16, 2011)

Carl keeps them tied to the farm, for now, but Sophia keeps them split up and out and about.  I don't think they'll off Sophia.  At this point, I'm wondering which of the farm residents will live and which are involved in the barn secret.  Obviously, they need a demographic replacement for Amy, so there's a good chance Maggie will join them on the road.  They could use a doctor but I have a feeling that Hershel has too much to do with the secret and wouldn't leave the farm if they dragged him.  Jimmy and Patricia seem expendable at this stage, though Jimmy might fill a niche that the audience in being a quasi-rival for Glenn, and depnding on how they off Hershel, might hold a grudge and set the stage for future conflict if they bring him along.  Will they burn the barn with all zombie-souls inside?  Can't waste ammo if they can help it.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 16, 2011)

Well the show's been content to play fast and loose with the source materials, so all bets are off about how things will play out, but my guess is that they'll be back on the road, and a bit leaner population-wise, any episode now.


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 16, 2011)

jcayer said:


> As boring as the search for the little girl has been, it astounds me how stupid these people are...in regards to their host!
> Herschel has given them a place to stay that is safe, he's provided for them medically, and they return the favor by stealing his horse, wandering around with guns, and not honoring his wishes about dealing with Walkers.




well, Hershel's kid did say that he could go with them & take the horse, if I'm not mistaken.  I'm sure Rick & Co assumed he had gotten permission from Hershel, which was wrong.


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 16, 2011)

CrimsonReaver said:


> Speaking of Merle, I'm glad they brought him up in this last episode.  Because, yeah, what the hell?  They made only a half-assed effort to search for *him*.  And Rick was even more responsible for Merle's situation than he was for Sophia's.  But, what, because he was a racist, druggie scumbag he wasn't worth looking for, possibly getting people killed for?  Some ripe hypocrisy on Rick's part there.




well, Merle wasn't just a racist druggie scumbag, he brutally assaulted T-Dogg.  Plus, as his escape from being handcuffed proved, he can take care of himself.  He also stole the truck the group had taken to try to rescue him.  Since they were in zombie central in Atlanta at the time, searching for a criminal like Merle in that mess was something that would have been way too much trouble.  Plus, I'm sure he did not want to be found by Rick & Company, as he figured they'd just kill him this time.

Sophia is an innocent 12 year old girl whom we assume wants to be found.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 16, 2011)

There is a bit of a Checkov's gun situation being set up with all these missing characters. When a character disappears under such circumstances, there's an expectation that they WILL show up again, and in a dramatically satisfying way, wether is Merle, Sophia, or the father and son from early in Season 1 (who Rick still tries to contact), they either need to show up alive or show up dead. They can't just keep not showing up.


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 16, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> There is a bit of a Checkov's gun situation being set up with all these missing characters. When a character disappears under such circumstances, there's an expectation that they WILL show up again, and in a dramatically satisfying way, wether is Merle, Sophia, or the father and son from early in Season 1 (who Rick still tries to contact), they either need to show up alive or show up dead. They can't just keep not showing up.




A few major spoilers below:

1) 



Spoiler



IMDB lists the actress playing Sophia as appearing in episode 7, so she could be back as either herself or a walker.



2) 



Spoiler



Morgan and his son Duane do return in the comics.  However, it is not any time soon if they stick somewhat close to the comics.



3) 



Spoiler



There was some online speculation that Merle would become "The Governor" on the TV show, a memorable villain in the comic series.  However, I think some folks behind the TV series killed that idea not long ago.


----------



## Bullgrit (Nov 16, 2011)

Is there anywhere online I can watch the episodes? Looks like the AMC site doesn't have full episodes, just clips. And searching on Google gives me stuff I'm not sure about. I'm looking for legal and virus-free.

Bullgrit


----------



## Mark CMG (Nov 16, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> A few major spoilers below:
> 
> 1)
> 
> ...





Don't forget about the flashbacks and figments (like Merle) that they use in the show.


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 16, 2011)

Bullgrit said:


> Is there anywhere online I can watch the episodes? Looks like the AMC site doesn't have full episodes, just clips. And searching on Google gives me stuff I'm not sure about. I'm looking for legal and virus-free.
> 
> Bullgrit




I believe Comcast has it On Demand, and I'm sure other cable providers do as well. 

Comcast also allows you to watch it online through X-Finity TV.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 17, 2011)

CrimsonReaver said:


> Some ripe hypocrisy on Rick's part there.



I don't see it as hypocritical. I wouldn't spend five seconds searching for Merle whereas I'd give at least three or four days searching for Sophia. I doubt many people would have a much different opinion. Hell, I would've put a bullet in Merle's head myself, just to shut him up.



Bullgrit said:


> Is there anywhere online I can watch the episodes?



Usenet.


----------



## CrimsonReaver (Nov 18, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> Sophia is an innocent 12 year old girl whom we assume wants to be found.




I'd say that's debatable.  Granted, it's most likely just crap writing, but it's almost like the girl is intentionally hiding from them.  Is the kid deaf or just unforgivably stupid?  How far did she wander in that short span of time from when Rick left her to where he realized she wasn't back at road - keeping in mind she's got the short legs of a child, and probably wasn't running at full speed unless she was being chased, and it's rough, uneven terrain - that she couldn't hear Rick and the others calling out to her?  Or did she think zombies were shouting her name?  And if that was her bedding down in that abandoned house, where the hell was she when Daryl came along?  She had a closet to sleep/hide in and assorted canned goods to eat.  Even if she didn't have sense enough to just stop wandering because she was lost and, surely, had to know her mom, if nobody else, would be looking for her, I'd like to think the shelter and food might provide enough sense of security that she wouldn't _want_ to stroll back into the woods with wandering walkers.  

I'm sorry, but I just want the kid dead at this point.  Hell, I want all of them dead.  Daryl is the only one who deserves to survive at this point.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 18, 2011)

CrimsonReaver said:


> How far did she wander in that short span of time from when Rick left her to where he realized she wasn't back at road - keeping in mind she's got the short legs of a child, and probably wasn't running at full speed unless she was being chased, and it's rough, uneven terrain - that she couldn't hear Rick and the others calling out to her?




I'm going to guess that you haven't done much hiking or bush-walking. It's easy to think with modern sensibilities when you haven't experienced the wilds beyond a manicured park bench. Even sparse forests will limit vision to a couple of hundred feet and between trees, scrub, gullies, rivers and wildlife, sound doesn't travel as well as you might think. Concrete and glass generally echo sound, trees and rocks generally absorb it. Walk a hundred feet or so and you won't be able to see your friends or determine where they are based on shouts. Hell, she might've heard them and tried to run towards them only to find herself running further away, not closer, and that's not even taking terrain into account which would force her to travel in certain directions.

A panicked city-kid who'd just almost been zombie-food getting lost in a massive forest and being hard to find with a small search party of inexperienced (only Rick, Shane and Daryl really know what they're doing) 'rescuers' really isn't that far from reality. In fact, if they HAD found her after just a couple of days, I think I would've had a harder time believing that.

The real mistake was in Rick telling her to run back to camp. He should've just told her to stay put. Before you say that it would've been easy to follow Rick's directions, first consider that she's panicking, out of breath, and even if she HAD heard and understood his directions, following them would be next to impossible anyway; the likelihood of her getting lost on her way back was FAR higher than her finding her way.


----------



## CrimsonReaver (Nov 18, 2011)

Actually, I have done some camping/hiking in the Carolinas.  Yes, you lose visual contact rather easily.  Yes, it's easy to get turned around and lost in wooded areas, especially when navigating rough, uneven, or mountainous terrain that prevents you from following a straight line.  No, sound doesn't travel nearly as well, making echolocation vastly more difficult.  But, like I said, I have a hard time believing Sophia could've gotten very far.  One, the terrain would force her to move slowly and carefully, especially if she didn't want to twist an ankle or something.  Two, knowing, or at least suspecting, that zombies were wandering those woods, I'd like to think she was trying to make as little noise as possible and, thus, moving cautiously.  Three, once she was lost, if she was panicking and truly freaking out, it's hard to imagine she wouldn't have been calling out, screaming her head off for someone to help her.  Plus, like I said, you have to believe the girl knew her mother would come looking for her, making it more likely for her to be calling out.

But I'll concede the point that she could've wandered beyond earshot in the time between when Rick left her and when the search party reached the church, especially if she ended up going in the opposite direction.



Kzach said:


> The real mistake was in Rick telling her to run back to camp. He should've just told her to stay put.




Um.  I'm pretty sure he *did* tell her to stay put.  Unless I'm imagining it, Rick told her to hide and then wait for him to come back for her, but if he wasn't back shortly, she was to follow the stream and head toward the road.  Maybe it was crap editing and they meant to show her wandering off after Rick dispatched the walkers, like she'd waited 5-10 minutes but then got scared that something happened to Rick and the zombies would come back for her.  Or maybe the girl was supposed to look like a moron, thereby providing us with our missing girl MacGuffin.  But within *seconds* of the zombies passing her hiding place, she stepped out and wandered into the woods.  WTF?!  I'll give her a pass on being too frightened to pay much attention to Rick's instructions about following the stream and in which direction the road was, but the part about hiding and waiting for him?  No.  Sorry.  Considering she was clinging to him for her life moments ago, I can't believe she wouldn't wait for him to come back, that she wouldn't cower in the shadows waiting to be rescued.  At least for a few freakin' minutes.

That's what infuriates me and makes me want the little girl - the character, not the young actress - dead.  Flesh-eating zombies are roaming the countryside and people _still_ can't get kids to listen.


----------



## Bullgrit (Nov 21, 2011)

<sigh>

Two things jumped out at me, (in a negative way), in this latest episode.

(I may get names mixed up, as I'm just getting into the show.)
1- Shane and shooter-woman? go into the neighborhood to look for the girl. They park the car and decide to start at the back and work their way out?! WTH? These people are survivors? And they determine that the girl hasn't been to the neighborhood by exploring one house, and then give up on that area?

2- Rick's wife slept with Shane because she thought Rick was dead? I haven't seen the first season/episodes, so I don't know how long Rick was "dead," but he didn't die in his unattended coma, I have to figure he was out for not more than a week. Hell, even if it was a month, his wife and best friend slept together already? Whoa, that's fast.

Bullgrit


----------



## Deset Gled (Nov 21, 2011)

Bullgrit said:


> <sigh>
> 
> Two things jumped out at me, (in a negative way), in this latest episode.
> 
> ...




Well, it kinda makes sense that if the development is that overrun with walkers, Sophia isn't there.  If she ever was there, she would either have run away or been eaten.  Other than that, though, correct about their stupidity.





> 2- Rick's wife slept with Shane because she thought Rick was dead? I haven't seen the first season/episodes, so I don't know how long Rick was "dead," but he didn't die in his unattended coma, I have to figure he was out for not more than a week. Hell, even if it was a month, his wife and best friend slept together already? Whoa, that's fast.
> 
> Bullgrit




The short version: you really need to see season one.  Given the circumstances of Rick's coma, marriage and the zombie apocalypse, the affair between Lori and Shane is quite easy to understand.


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 21, 2011)

Bullgrit said:


> <sigh>
> 
> Two things jumped out at me, (in a negative way), in this latest episode.
> 
> ...




I got the impression Rick was in a coma for more than a month from season 1.

But, my problem with them is that they're in a world full of walkers/zombies and they're always driving around with the car windows all the way down.  At least the window is some protection from a hidden/lurking zombie.  If you want fresh air, crack the window open.  Now, if you're on the open highway, that's fine... but, in a neighborhood.

I did think last's night episode was the best of the season so far.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 21, 2011)

Again, these people are stupid and it is sad they are wrote that way.  I have no problem with them driving into the housing area but do a drive by, blow the horn and see what comes out of the bushes.  Enter house, no flash light nor (again) exit plan.   

Zombie Kit...

hand axe - wack tool
guns - nuff said
shield - I swear it is a great tool
rope - better than jumping from a window
flash lights & batteries 
remote controlled CD player - place it somewhere and turn it on


----------



## Crothian (Nov 21, 2011)

I actually think the stupid action of the characters is on purpose.  That way all the fans can point out the glaring errors and discuss it to no end.  

Personally, I'm a bit bored with the farm plots and can't wait till they move on to something else.


----------



## Bullgrit (Nov 21, 2011)

> I actually think the stupid action of the characters is on purpose. That way all the fans can point out the glaring errors and discuss it to no end.



Well, if the stupidity continues, and/or gets worse, it will drive me from continuing to watch the show. It jolts me out of the mood for watching.

Also, Shane is supposed to be a great firearm instructor, but the only "instruction" we see is him yelling at and antagonizing the woman. Not one word about breathing or leading or anticipating or anything actual useful for firing at a moving target. With all the guns they have on the filming set, surely they have some weapons experts who could perhaps give the writers a couple of lines on how Shane should be instructing someone.

Bullgrit


----------



## Ahnehnois (Nov 22, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> But, my problem with them is that they're in a world full of walkers/zombies and they're always driving around with the car windows all the way down.  At least the window is some protection from a hidden/lurking zombie.  If you want fresh air, crack the window open.  Now, if you're on the open highway, that's fine... but, in a neighborhood.



It is set in Georgia. Running AC all the time wastes gas (which raises a bigger issue, because gas does not stay usable forever even if stored), and it may be too hot to function with windows closed.



			
				Bullgrit said:
			
		

> Also, Shane is supposed to be a great firearm instructor, but the only "instruction" we see is him yelling at and antagonizing the woman. Not one word about breathing or leading or anticipating or anything actual useful for firing at a moving target. With all the guns they have on the filming set, surely they have some weapons experts who could perhaps give the writers a couple of lines on how Shane should be instructing someone.



There was a bit more in earlier episodes, and it makes sense that the camera would focus more on the emotional stuff and less on the technical stuff. Also, given the results, it appears Shane accurately appraised that emotions were the only thing keeping her from being a capable combatant, which is sometimes part of teaching.


> 1- Shane and shooter-woman? go into the neighborhood to look for the girl. They park the car and decide to start at the back and work their way out?! WTH? These people are survivors? And they determine that the girl hasn't been to the neighborhood by exploring one house, and then give up on that area?



Perhaps they decided that if the neighborhood was overrun, she probably would not have stayed there any longer than they did, if she had survived and come through.

I challenge anyone to make entertaining genre fiction (or fiction period) that can't be picked apart. That said, there's usually a decent answer to these kinds of questions if you think about them.

I'm more concerned with how no one heard anything from the barn. These creatures/people aren't exactly silent, and one would expect the party to be very sensitive at this point. I'm also wondering how one snuck up on them in the drug store for the same reasons. On a character level, I'm wondering why Herschel decided to keep his 'prisoners' a secret. If it's not wrong/stupid to keep them in the barn why hide them? Always more questions...


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 22, 2011)

Ahnehnois said:


> I'm more concerned with how no one heard anything from the barn. These creatures/people aren't exactly silent, and one would expect the party to be very sensitive at this point. I'm also wondering how one snuck up on them in the drug store for the same reasons. On a character level, I'm wondering why Herschel decided to keep his 'prisoners' a secret. If it's not wrong/stupid to keep them in the barn why hide them? Always more questions...




In the comics (swipe for spoilers)



Spoiler



I just flipped through the comics again tonight just to make sure, but when they got to Hershel's farm, Hershel told them up front to avoid the barn because 'that's where all the dead ones are' - so, the group knew about it right away.


----------



## Kzach (Nov 22, 2011)

Bullgrit said:


> And they determine that the girl hasn't been to the neighborhood by exploring one house, and then give up on that area?



Eh, they said they'd go back and check again so they haven't given up on the area.



Bullgrit said:


> Hell, even if it was a month, his wife and best friend slept together already? Whoa, that's fast.



Eh, even if it was just a week, I could understand. You're in a situation that is so intensely dire, beyond anything even a vet in Iraq would be going through given the supernatural and apocalyptic nature of it, and could be eaten alive any day and you have a kid to protect and there's this crack-shot, tough and skilled guy who's not too bad looking, who can protect you and your son... honestly, if she was my wife I wouldn't be upset about it.



NewJeffCT said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I just flipped through the comics again tonight just to make sure, but when they got to Hershel's farm, Hershel told them up front to avoid the barn because 'that's where all the dead ones are' - so, the group knew about it right away.



I have to say that I prefer what they did in the TV series then; far more dramatic and interesting.

Also, best episode of the season. So many pay-offs for all the setup they've been doing lately. The only thing that really bugged me this episode was that a walker was in the pharmacy. I mean, come on, they've been going there repeatedly, they had sex in there, and then suddenly when it's dramatically appropriate, a walker somehow pops up out of nowhere? Plus the lead-in was so obvious I ended up predicting it five minutes before it happened.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 22, 2011)

Bullgrit said:


> <sigh>
> 2- Rick's wife slept with Shane because she thought Rick was dead? I haven't seen the first season/episodes, so I don't know how long Rick was "dead," but he didn't die in his unattended coma, I have to figure he was out for not more than a week. Hell, even if it was a month, his wife and best friend slept together already? Whoa, that's fast.
> 
> Bullgrit




It was never said but from bits here and there, it looked like it was from 4 to 6 weeks from the time Rick was shot until he wakes up from his coma.  The zombie plague starts up at the same time or just after Rick is shot.  The big question is just when Shane told Rick's wife he was dead, which looks like it was less than a week before he woke up.  Then you have the time Rick took to find his family, looks like days but could have been longer.  So, how long was Rick "dead" to his family, at the most 3 weeks.  The time Shane has to set himself up as man of the house, 7 to 9 weeks in a very stressful world.


----------



## CrimsonReaver (Nov 22, 2011)

Ahnehnois said:


> There was a bit more in earlier episodes, and it makes sense that the camera would focus more on the emotional stuff and less on the technical stuff.




I think taking a few minutes to discuss the technical stuff - particularly breathing, _squeezing_ the trigger, and leading your target - would have been appropriate, especially with Carl, because it did look like the writers had no clue what would make someone a good firearms instructor.  The whole "I'm going to yell at you, make you angry, and then you'll suddenly be an expert marksman" thing played way too Hollywood movie cliche.  It's a tiny quibble, but it still bothered me a little.



> On a character level, I'm wondering why Herschel decided to keep his 'prisoners' a secret. If it's not wrong/stupid to keep them in the barn why hide them? Always more questions...




I was satisfied with his explanation to Dale, that not everyone is going to be reasonable or respectful of his beliefs/feelings.  The world has gone to hell and mob rule is the new law of the land; all it would take is for one person to get the group riled up, playing to their fear or hatred or sense of loss, and next thing you know they're burning Herschel's barn to the ground.  Even though Daryl's now the only likable character, I can still imagine him leading a charge to put those walkers down, regardless of what Herschel, _their host_, wants.  Or I can imagine T-Dogg wanting to prove what a big, tough guy he is, or Andrea (especially in her current state of mind) letting her sorrow and rage for her dead sister drive her toward siding with the barn burners.  Or Rick's b*tch of a wife, shrieking that they need to destroy the walkers, probably using the safety of Carl as her reasoning/manipulation tactic - even though she was half-praying for him to die not that long ago.  Yep.  I perfectly understand why Herschel would keep it a secret, especially now that he somewhat knows the personalities he's dealing with.

---

I am a bit puzzled by Rick's need to stay on Herschel's farm.  I mean, if everyone in that group wants to settle down, if they're tired of being on the road and given up all hope for reaching a fort or safe haven, there *have* to be other abandoned farms/ranches in the area with similar wells and whatnot.  Find a home, clear it out and clean it up, secure the land with fences, and maybe barter a few chickens and a cow or two from Herschel.  They could have everything they have now without needing to impose on Herschel and his family and, therefore, not have to live by his rules or beliefs.  If it's a matter of wanting to be near someone with medical skills, then just take the next farm over.  The idea that they _have_ to stay on Herschel's land is just ridiculous.


Still, I'm glad to see they're starting to ratchet up the tension and turmoil within the main group, because the show was starting to get dull.  The essence of drama is conflict, and if they don't have regular, intense zombies attacks then they really need the tension and conflict of human nature and high emotions.  Whenever they aren't unified against the zombies, they really need to be fractured and fighting amongst themselves, or there's no conflict, no tension, and no reason to keep watching.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 22, 2011)

New Game -  Rock, Paper, Zombie...(Hollywood Rules)...

Human vs window = window: human will be unable to break windows  
Zombie vs window = Zombie: window always breaks with zombie, unless window is used as weapon

Human vs car = human: will flip and roll but run away
Zombie vs car = car: it is messy


----------



## Kzach (Nov 22, 2011)

CrimsonReaver said:


> I am a bit puzzled by Rick's need to stay on Herschel's farm.




A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

I've decided that I still like Glenn and that his going down the well, although incredibly pointless and stupid, was part of him trying to prove his value to the group and part of him accepting a role within it, ie. walker bait, as Maggie so aptly put it.

I've also decided that I like Dale. Standing up to Shane requires nuts of polished steel


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 22, 2011)

Kzach said:


> I have to say that I prefer what they did in the TV series then; far more dramatic and interesting.




It seemed to me that most people that hadn't read the comic had already guessed that there were walkers in the barn, and the walkers were possibly relatives/friends/family.  So, I think the actual discovery was anti-climactic to many.  What other reason for the mysterious "keep away from the barn" message?  Toxic waste dump?  Rabid pigs?  Millions in stolen bullion, which would now be worth squat in the zombie apocalypse?


----------



## Ahnehnois (Nov 22, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> It seemed to me that most people that hadn't read the comic had already guessed that there were walkers in the barn, and the walkers were possibly relatives/friends/family.  So, I think the actual discovery was anti-climactic to many.  What other reason for the mysterious "keep away from the barn" message?



I'm unfamiliar with the source material, and I saw that coming. I do find the position that they are still people a very interesting one, and I thought the reveal was entertaining. The Sophia issue and Daryl almost dying are providing enough unpredictability for me.


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 22, 2011)

Ahnehnois said:


> I'm unfamiliar with the source material, and I saw that coming. I do find the position that they are still people a very interesting one, and I thought the reveal was entertaining. The Sophia issue and Daryl almost dying are providing enough unpredictability for me.




They've deviated quite a bit from the source material -

Walkers/zombies are faster and tougher in TV Walking Dead than in the comics, for one.  

big spoilers below


Spoiler



1) In the comics, Shane was dead before they got to Hershel's Farm.
2) They had also run into Tyreese, his daughter and her boyfriend before the farm as well.  The producers had specifically mentioned Tyreese & Michonne last year as definite, but didn't say when.
3) The stay at the farm was shorter in the comics
4) In the comics, the whole group went to the housing development before the farm as well, and spent the night there, only to be attacked at night by walkers and having to flee in the camper.


----------



## CrimsonReaver (Nov 22, 2011)

Kzach said:


> A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
> 
> I've decided that I still like Glenn and that his going down the well, although incredibly pointless and stupid, was part of him trying to prove his value to the group and part of him accepting a role within it, ie. walker bait, as Maggie so aptly put it.
> 
> I've also decided that I like Dale. Standing up to Shane requires nuts of polished steel




Obviously it'd be easier to stay there and be folded into Herschel's family, but since people in Rick's group are already grumbling about the rules - like not wandering around Herschel's property with guns and letting him handle the walkers - and there's clearly some friction between the two parties, thanks to Rick's group just making themselves at home instead of acting like the guests that they are, I'd think _someone_ would suggest, "Hey, why don't we take the next farm over?  That way we won't be stepping on any toes, but we'll still be close enough to check in occasionally, provide support, help each other out, and pool our strength/numbers when needed."  That seems like the most logical compromise.  Unless Herschel was all, "No, you can't have that farm.  That land belongs to Jeb and Eunice Goobersnoot - who are currently rotting in my barn, by the way - but when they're done being zombies they're gonna want their house and land back, and I don't want you kids messing up their place!"  Then maybe you pop the geezer in the melon, claim his home and womenfolk, and torch his little zombie petting zoo.  

I _want_ to like Glenn, and really wish he'd get back some of the smarts and spine he had from last season, but I have a feeling Maggie's going to go all Lady Macbeth on him.  And since he's thinking with his smaller head when it comes to her, I'm worried he'll get manipulated into doing something stupid, selfish and petty.  Although, if it gets Shane killed, I'd be kinda okay with that.

And, yeah, Dale somewhat redeemed himself by standing up to Shane, calling him out on lining up his sights on Rick and snidely asking him what _really_ happened to Otis.  I still don't like him as much as I did last season, because he's still doing that overbearing, overprotective thing with Andrea that seems less about looking out for her and more about treating her like a child, meddling in her life and trying to control her.  But I'm not actively rooting for harm to befall him now.  What he does over the next few episodes will likely decide whether or not I want to see him make it to the third season.


And it sucks that we've only got one more episode, and then we have to wait until February for the rest of the season.


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 22, 2011)

CrimsonReaver said:


> And it sucks that we've only got one more episode, and then we have to wait until February for the rest of the season.




I think they broke the season up into two halves because season 1 was 6 weeks - from October 31, 2010 through December 5, 2010.  Then, it was a wait of almost a year until season 2.

At least with the season ending at the end of March, it will only be 7 months until season 3 starts in October of 2012, assuming they keep to the same schedule.


----------



## Krug (Nov 22, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> They've deviated quite a bit from the source material -
> 
> Walkers/zombies are faster and tougher in TV Walking Dead than in the comics, for one.
> 
> ...




It's been pretty inconsistent. Some of the walkers in the latest episode are pretty slow.



Spoiler



I'm glad they're keeping Shane alive but not sure for how long. His character is getting less sympathetic with each episode.

I've always found the character of Michonne hard to digest. A katana wielding kick-ass warrior. Uh yeah sure..


----------



## NewJeffCT (Nov 23, 2011)

Krug said:


> It's been pretty inconsistent. Some of the walkers in the latest episode are pretty slow.




True - I think it depends on how "whole" their bodies are.  A walker that is freshly dead & mostly intact can move at a decent clip.  One that's been dead for a while and is banged up might be slower.

as for the spoilery bits:


Spoiler



I think now that Carl can shoot a gun and Rick knows about Shane, it's a setup for Shane to die either in the midseason finale next week, or at the actual end of the season in late March or early April.

Sure, Michonne is a bit unrealistic, but I think they said in the comics that she was on her college fencing team, so that would explain her being good with a sword.  Yes, I know a katana is different than an epee.  I'd have to go back to the comics to re-read her intro.  (BTW, the SyFy movie Zombie Apocalypse features a black woman who wields a katana and Ving Rhames wielding a big ass hammer)


----------



## Kzach (Nov 23, 2011)

After yet another awesome episode, I feel the need to point out to everyone that there is a new TV series on MTV called "Death Valley". It's a zombie comedy horror that follows the "UTF" (Undead Task Force) of San Fernando in a mockumentary style (although they seem to be veering away from that lately). There have only been one or two duds so far in the whole first season and the latest three episodes have been so ridiculously awesome that it's now my favourite zombie TV show and kicks all kinds of ass over the Walking Dead.

If you're a zombie fan, you OWE it to yourself to check this series out.


----------

