# Highly recommend Carrion Hill



## SoldierBlue (May 26, 2010)

Finished _Carrion Hill _by Richard Pett on the weekend as a player.

The Pathfinder/Game Mastery stand-alone modules don't get the attention the APs do, but this is a doozy of an adventure with a cool Cthulu touch.

Best part - player actions early in the module determine how difficult the final encounter is...the adventure rewards smart and constructive PC play.

Kudos, Mr. Pett.


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## renau1g (May 26, 2010)

I've heard good things about this one myself. Glad to see the recommendation. I might need to pick it up.


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## SoldierBlue (May 26, 2010)

renau1g said:


> I've heard good things about this one myself. Glad to see the recommendation. I might need to pick it up.





Two sessions - 4 hours each - and you should be able to finish it.

One longer session might do, but that would serve to rush the mystery/exploration aspect to the module.  And as I hinted at earlier, a little exploration early on pays big dividends later on.

I left the game table thoroughly satisfied in terms of a gaming experience.  And my urban ranger (who said it couldn't be done?) worked out just fine...


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## Psychotic Jim (May 26, 2010)

Looks interesting from what I read on the paizo product page.  What are the highlights you found in it?

Also, did you find any weak points to the module?


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## SoldierBlue (May 26, 2010)

Psychotic Jim said:


> Looks interesting from what I read on the paizo product page. What are the highlights you found in it?
> 
> Also, did you find any weak points to the module?





I only played it, and then only gave the module a cursory glance after play, so my comments have to be couched as such. I'm not in a position to completely review the mod.

No glaring weaknesses, except that if the PCs aren't on their toes, the final encounter will TPK them - it's a 5th level mod, and the final encounter has the _potential_ of being CR 10.

An interesting and underused monster from Monster Manual I also appears.  The DM needs to include some way for the PCs to access _remove curse_ or _greater restoration_ - it's likely at least one or two of the PCs will be suffering from _corporal instability_. We found a cleric of Serenrae and mortgaged our first born to pay for it.

I'm not a huge Lovecraft fan, but both the DM and one of the other players were, and they claimed it hit the mark in that respect.

Well written, and plays well. But if we'd just done a few things differently, it could have easily been TPK, which I suppose made our ultimate victory that much sweeter...


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## ruemere (May 26, 2010)

Seconding SoldierBlue's opinion of the module.

Additionally:

1. The whole module exhibits somewhat rare strength to paint really bleak backdrop to the setting. Or, GM is reminded to include in descriptions, in no particular order, cockroaches, constant rain, homicidal maniacs, good guys torn to shreds, stench, slime.

2. The module does not conform to standard d20 rules of building encounters - there are almost no equal CR fights, so it's either an easy or dastardly difficult fight. This keeps everyone on their toes.

3. Bad guys are bad guys. Still, you can try to reason with them (or subdue them) and provision for interesting roleplaying interaction is provided. You're not forced to kill - you can take the hard way and try to put them into prison.

4. There are cliche moments implemented beautifully in the story (i.e. you get time honored loud stomps foreshadowing something big and bad coming after you and more).

Oh, and don't show the cover to your players.

Regards,
Ruemere


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## SoldierBlue (May 26, 2010)

Yeah - Ruemere covered it better than me, but the whole thing has great ambience - Carrion Hill is a spooky little town, with incessant rain, a cockroach problem, and tunnels that lead straight to the Darklands.  

So excellent atmosphere for adventuring.

And we chose to capture, rather than kill, several of our adversaries.  However, the Crows (the city watch) chose to execute them, so moral questions abound...

Also, my ranger took a very risky swim through an underground lake to grab a sword that was very useful later on.  In doing so, however, he had his teeth knocked out by an errant tentacle (thank-you, Paizo Critical Hit deck....)

Great module, with great memories.  All in all, a very satisfying experience...


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## Steel_Wind (May 26, 2010)

We'll be sure to review this one on the podcast. I've got it pencilled in on the list of early "satand alone" modules to review, though we'll tackle the _Crypt/Masks/City_ Immortal Trilogy first I think.

That's the problem with reviewing Paizo adventure material: so much of comes out, so regularly and so often that even if you start to review products on a going-forward only basis, it will prove difficult to keep up!  Throw in trying to review already released material? That's an awfully big cow to be chewing a bite at a time.


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## frankthedm (May 26, 2010)

Say, could someone post a {spoiler}{/spoiler] or {sblock}{/sblock} list of the monsters and thier numbers that appear in the module? For a mini shopping list or counter list.


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## SoldierBlue (May 26, 2010)

Err...umm..not smart enough to figure out the "spoiler" function.

Any freaky Cthulu-esque counters handy?


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## ruemere (May 26, 2010)

frankthedm said:


> Say, could someone post a {spoiler}{/spoiler] or {sblock}{/sblock} list of the monsters and thier numbers that appear in the module? For a mini shopping list or counter list.




(heavy spoilers ahead)

Carrion Hill monsters are [sblock]
as follows:

Opponent (number appearing)
Dark Creepers (3)
Male Ghoul Rogue (1)
Human Zombies (8) - lifelike, possibly wearing protective suits (they are meant to look like ordinary workers)
Human Wizard (1) ... does not look like a wizard, more like a drunk industrialist
Human Rogue (1) ... killer looks, with a red bandanna over his mouth
Violet Fungi (4)
Human Orderly (up to 8 at any one time)
Human Lunatic (up to 6 at any one time)
Derro (1)
Advanced Morlock (1)
Chaos Beast (1)
Human Cleric (1) ... creepy undertaker type of a guy
BBEG (1) ... large _something_, invisible (can be made visible), let's just say it is like Chaos Beast on steroids with human-like face floating within that horror somewhere
[/sblock]

Regards,
Ruemere


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## Greg V (May 27, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> We'll be sure to review this one on the podcast. I've got it pencilled in on the list of early "satand alone" modules to review, though we'll tackle the _Crypt/Masks/City_ Immortal Trilogy first I think.
> 
> That's the problem with reviewing Paizo adventure material: so much of comes out, so regularly and so often that even if you start to review products on a going-forward only basis, it will prove difficult to keep up! Throw in trying to review already released material? That's an awfully big cow to be chewing a bite at a time.




You definitely need to review Carrion Hill if you can.  It is actually a survivor from the old Dungeon magazine--saved from the slush pile and brought with Paizo when they lost the license.  It's the first and only time that a piece of Golarion was constructed to fit an already existing adventure (albeit one then tweaked somewhat to fit into Golarion).  So you know it's good.


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## frankthedm (May 27, 2010)

ruemere said:


> (heavy spoilers ahead)
> 
> Carrion Hill monsters are [sblock]
> as follows:



Thanks

You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to ruemere again.


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## ruemere (May 27, 2010)

You're welcome.

By the way, Carrion Hill makes for a great site to start longer campaign from. We have layers of ancient ruins, city in a middle of a swamp land with a decent river port and natural resources to sell.

Here is to the idea of someone writing sequel to this module.

Regards,
Ruemere


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## James Jacobs (May 27, 2010)

Thanks for the kind words, everyone! Carrion Hill did indeed linger on my computer for several years before it finally saw print last year, and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. Rich Pett did an incredible job crafting another creepy town for us—after the success of his earlier creation in Dungeon ("The Styes") I was hoping Carrion Hill would do the same. The fact that we were able to turn up the Lovecraft connection so high for this one is also a delight, and I'd also like to give a shout-out to the fine folks at Chaosium for more or less single-handedly making Lovecraft-related gaming into such a popular topic for the industry.

And I'm pretty sure that we haven't seen the last of Carrion Hill in print.


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## ruemere (May 27, 2010)

James Jacobs said:


> [...]
> 
> And I'm pretty sure that we haven't seen the last of Carrion Hill in print.




Now, this is something to look forward to. Inherent creepiness of the place sharply contrasts with civilized outlook of inhabitants (police force, industrial feel, tangled infrastructure, immigrants).
Just fit the Crows with guns, add some aristocratic protagonists and you have a dark version of Victorian story.

Regards,
Ruemere


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## MerrikCale (May 28, 2010)

SoldierBlue said:


> Finished _Carrion Hill _by Richard Pett on the weekend as a player.
> 
> The Pathfinder/Game Mastery stand-alone modules don't get the attention the APs do, but this is a doozy of an adventure with a cool Cthulu touch.
> 
> ...




I couldnt agree more


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## SoldierBlue (May 28, 2010)

Two other points on the "plus" side for _Carrion Hill_:

1) There were intersections into the Darklands within the module. The idea that there was all kind of adventure in the town added to the _tapestry_, as I like to call it, of the place. This is more important than mere fluff. I like the sense that the players are part of a living, breathing land. In the same way the original Star Wars had throwaway references to the Clone Wars, or the way Tolkien's character's referred sparingly to events in the First and Second Ages, that inclusion of Darkland connections suggested bigger possibilities for adventure in Carrion Hill. It also made it feel like we hadn't simply exhausted Carrion Hill as an adventure location at the end of the module. There is a sense in some modules that you're simply moving from place to place, solving whatever ill ails a particular location. If that were the case, Golarion would be adventured out pretty quickly! There has to be the sense, if not of continued threat, of continued adventure - the idea that the _tapestry_ the adventurers are a part of is much bigger than themselves.

2) At the end of the module, the GM showed us where Carrion Hill was on the Golarion map (it was a one-off adventure, so we didn't necessarily know where we were). That our tiny little adventure actually fit within the larger _tapestry_ of adventuring in Golarion was again very cool. 

This idea of tapestry is something Living Greyhawk did so well, and Golarion seems to be on its way to achieving. Not sure if Paizo will look at world-shaking events in the future to further build on that sense of _tapestry, _either via its Pathfinder Society adventures or its APs...


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## Steel_Wind (May 29, 2010)

SoldierBlue said:


> There were intersections into the Darklands within the module. The idea that there was all kind of adventure in the town added to the _tapestry_, as I like to call it, of the place.




The whole idea of the Darklands is actually one I am rather glad that Paizo preserved in Golarion.

The Underdark emerged first from Gygax's hand in _GDQ1-7._ But the Underdark as a feature of Greyhawk didn't take on as a massive world spanning thing. It was still somewhat....localized, it always seemed to me, 

It was the recreation of the Underdark in the Forgotten Realms where the idea crystallized into something unique, to the point where it began to overshadow the world above. Something started by Gygax seemed to become the plaything of Ed Greenwood -- until he lost it too. Then, little by little, all the designers and developers at TSR and later WotC lost control of the Underdark as well. It achieved a new definition apart from the control of D&D's designers. 

The problem is, the whole Drow matriarchal society, the nature of Menzoberranzan and all the rest of that ...novel baggage... accumulated in sedimentary layers, until it began to obscure the singular *coolness* that the original idea of the Underdark represented.

Which of course, bring us to Drizzt.

Now, I know that Drizz't has his fans. Bob Salvatore developed one of the strongest characters in all of "gaming fiction" with the Dark-elf Ranger. But he has his detractors as well. Love him or hate him, I don't think you can argue that the many novels of Drizz't served to force people into thinking about the Drow and the Underdark into a straitjacket -- that it could only be "this way" b*ecause that's the way the Underdark is.*

Whenever you get a series of gaming fiction novels that so utterly dominates an idea like the Underdark, it necessarily restricts the GM from playing with new ideas; it interferes with building his or her own "vision" of what their Underdark is all about.

So that's what I like about the Darklands. It's a reboot on the Underdark concept and one which I hope Paizo develops moderately with a different flavor and feel. And I hope it's not just a return to a Greyhawk flavored version of the Underdark. There is room to make it something else, too, if that's what Paizo wants. 

Something that is as quintessentially COOL an idea as the Underdark needs to give GMs some elbow room to reinterpret the core concept and take it in another direction, should they wish to do so. Otherwise, it just becomes a flavorless rehash; a place we have all been to before.



> Not sure if Paizo will look at world-shaking events in the future to further build on that sense of _tapestry, _either via its Pathfinder Society adventures or its APs...



This is another issue with Golarion and one which Paizo and its fans will get a handle on over time.

One thing is clear: already, the sheer number of products available for a world barely three years old is becoming very daunting. That's a remarkable thing after only three years.

I do think, however, that the APs and modules is not where the "story" of the official world setting advances as such. After all, there is nothing that says those APs have yet occurred in a given GMs version of Golarion. These modules and APs are essentially theme park rides that have not necessarily been turned on in a given world setting. It's a maybe -- not a must.

The place where Golarion will develop as a world setting is not only through its various adventures and modules, imo, -- but I think primarily it will develop as a living world through its fiction. It is the Pathfinder novel line and those characters which will impart to Golarion a sense of the dynamic "now".

All sort of areas can be depicted in the various _Pathfinder Chronicles_ books, sure. Those books serve to detail areas, provide plot hooks and -- more than anything -- fill in the holes in Golarion's history.

However, it seems to me that the present, apart fom the actions of the PC heroes, will be written across the sky in the novels, not the adventures which have (yet) to occur in the game world.


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## ruemere (May 29, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> [...]
> 
> Whenever you get a series of gaming fiction novels that so utterly dominates an idea like the Underdark, it necessarily restricts the GM from playing with new ideas; it interferes with building his or her own "vision" of what their Underdark is all about.
> 
> [...]




You're generalizing a bit too much. You would allow such domination only if you were already a fan of R. A. Salvatore's concepts.

Regards,
Ruemere


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## SoldierBlue (May 29, 2010)

I never read any of Mr. Salvatore's novels (a friend tried to get me into one when I was 14, and I couldn't make it through it - even at 14), but I do know that through his novels he put the Underdark into a bit of a straightjacket.  

The cool thing about Carrion Hill is that the mention of the Darklands opened up the possibility of endless adventure, rather than simply providing roadsigns to an already well-mapped and well-understood (and frankly very dull) Underdark.  Paizo would be well advised to always leave as much wiggle room within their products as possible, and not detail everything out.  

Otherwise the result is those strange chaps who spend way too much time hanging around my local game store discussing their very complete knowledge of each and every corner of the Underdark.  We need to retain a bit of, "There be dragons..." at the edge of the maps.  All is not known - hence the reason for adventurers.  If everything is known (I'm looking at you, Forgotten Realms), there is almost no reason for adventurers or adventuring...

Curious if Paizo would attempt a world-shaking event via their APs...a Greyhawk Wars-type of thing...hopefully it would be something you could take if you wanted, and drop if you didn't, for all the reasons already discussed...


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## James Jacobs (May 30, 2010)

SoldierBlue said:


> Curious if Paizo would attempt a world-shaking event via their APs...a Greyhawk Wars-type of thing...hopefully it would be something you could take if you wanted, and drop if you didn't, for all the reasons already discussed...




We're VERY unlikely to do any world-shaking events in Golarion anytime soon. I'm not really a fan of turning worlds upside down and changing the way things work. When we moved from 3.5 to the Pathfinder RPG rules, we didn't really have any in-game event to explain the change at all. We've put too much work into the world to break it, basically.

As for the concern about overdetailing the world... we're releasing a HUGE amount of material for Golarion. On average, between the Adventure Paths, Companions, Modules, and Chronicles lines, we're putting out an average of about 192 pages of content a month. That's 2,304 pages a year. Or just over two million words per year.

Yet even at that pace, there's a LOT of material we haven't yet covered in Golarion. And furthermore, one of our design philosophies is that for every secret or region we explore, we try to create two more for further expansion—the analogy of the logger who plants two trees for every one he cuts down is pretty accurate. Whenever we do gazetteers for regions, we try to leave some mysteries unsolved.

The links to the Darklands in Carrion Hill is a good example of keeping room for further expansion open—so is the fact that there's a lot of other areas in that town that could still harbor all sorts of locations.


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## Steel_Wind (May 30, 2010)

James Jacobs said:


> And furthermore, one of our design philosophies is that for every secret or region we explore, we try to create two more for further expansion—the analogy of the logger who plants two trees for every one he cuts down is pretty accurate. Whenever we do gazetteers for regions, we try to leave some mysteries unsolved.




Very cool  I like that analogy, I like it a lot.


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## ruemere (May 30, 2010)

SoldierBlue said:


> I never read any of Mr. Salvatore's novels (a friend tried to get me into one when I was 14, and I couldn't make it through it - even at 14), but I do know that through his novels he put the Underdark into a bit of a straightjacket. [...]




Why? Underdark is supposed to be vast, and elves of any kind, including drows, should be scarce.

My first real RPG was Warhammer and there was never a problem with Skavens taking over tunnels and sewers of Old World.
If anything, Moria mines, Silmarillion concept of evil dwelling among "mountain roots" and Lovecraft's "At the Mountain of Madness" would be more prominent influences.

Regards,
Ruemere


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 30, 2010)

ruemere said:


> Why? Underdark is supposed to be vast, and elves of any kind, including drows, should be scarce.
> 
> My first real RPG was Warhammer and there was never a problem with Skavens taking over tunnels and sewers of Old World.
> If anything, Moria mines, Silmarillion concept of evil dwelling among "mountain roots" and Lovecraft's "At the Mountain of Madness" would be more prominent influences.
> ...




Because while those three sources are awesome, they are single works and weren't written about Forgotten Realms, didn't call their mountain roots settings 'the Underdark', and weren't "sanctioned" by WotC.

Salvatore's Drizzt novels are numerous, setting specific for Forgotten Realms, and given the WotC stamp of approval.


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## IronWolf (May 30, 2010)

Mowgli said:


> Because while those three sources are awesome, they are single works and weren't written about Forgotten Realms, didn't call their mountain roots settings 'the Underdark', and weren't "sanctioned" by WotC.
> 
> Salvatore's Drizzt novels are numerous, setting specific for Forgotten Realms, and given the WotC stamp of approval.




But again, the Underdark is a vast place.  Even with the large number of Salvatore novels that touch on it there is still much unexplored.  There is plenty of room for other underground cities, races and lost caverns to explore.  

I think it is a bit overkill to write off the entire Underdark as already done simply because a popular novel series features a Drow elf from there.  Weeks of Drizzt's travel through the Underdark is frequently hand waved within the novels, helping show just how expansive the underground network is.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 30, 2010)

IronWolf said:


> But again, the Underdark is a vast place.  Even with the large number of Salvatore novels that touch on it there is still much unexplored.  There is plenty of room for other underground cities, races and lost caverns to explore.
> 
> I think it is a bit overkill to write off the entire Underdark as already done simply because a popular novel series features a Drow elf from there.  Weeks of Drizzt's travel through the Underdark is frequently hand waved within the novels, helping show just how expansive the underground network is.




Oh, I agree completely! I was only giving my understanding of the reasons so many people think of the 'Drizzt Underdark' as the only Underdark, not my subscription to that line of thinking.


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## ruemere (May 30, 2010)

Mowgli said:


> Oh, I agree completely! I was only giving my understanding of the reasons so many people think of the 'Drizzt Underdark' as the only Underdark, not my subscription to that line of thinking.




I was just being nitpicky, that's all.

Regards,
Ruemere


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## IronWolf (May 30, 2010)

Mowgli said:


> Oh, I agree completely! I was only giving my understanding of the reasons so many people think of the 'Drizzt Underdark' as the only Underdark, not my subscription to that line of thinking.




Ah!  I get it.  I can see why folks on the surface might think of it as the 'Drizzt Underdark' - I guess I jumped to defense of the FR Underdark too quickly!


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## Steel_Wind (May 30, 2010)

IronWolf said:


> But again, the Underdark is a vast place.  Even with the large number of  Salvatore novels that touch on it there is still much unexplored.   There is plenty of room for other underground cities, races and lost  caverns to explore.




FWIW, I can confirm that Wizards of the Coast's approvals process does not share this view.

When the topic of getting an officially licensed and approved D&D computer game incorporating any element of the Underdark in the Forgotten Realms was broached, I was strongly advised against it, because the "canon" of the Underdark as presented in the Salvatore novels is very complex and it would delay the approvals process by WotC greatly.  If a Drizzt novel contradicts an idea, or even merely implies something otherwise, WotC would say "no."

This was one of the reasons we went with setting our FR licensed computer game in Cormyr, as a result.


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## IronWolf (May 30, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> FWIW, I can confirm that Wizards of the Coast's approvals process does not share this view.
> 
> When the topic of getting an officially licensed and approved D&D computer game incorporating any element of the Underdark in the Forgotten Realms was broached, I was strongly advised against it, because the "canon" of the Underdark as presented in the Salvatore novels is very complex and it would delay the approvals process by WotC greatly. If a Drizzt novel contradicts an idea, or even merely implies something otherwise, WotC would say "no."




How did we jump the tracks to the WotC approvals process?  

The several posts in this dialog were in response to:



			
				Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Whenever you get a series of gaming fiction novels that so utterly dominates an idea like the Underdark, it necessarily restricts the GM from playing with new ideas; it interferes with building his or her own "vision" of what their Underdark is all about.




From there some folks mentioned how they feel that isn't true enough to warrant such a generalized statement.  While I am certain the WotC approvals process has much more stringent criteria on granting an official license, it has little bearing on the home GM running a campaign or portion of campaign into the Forgotten Realms Underdark.


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## Steel_Wind (May 31, 2010)

IronWolf said:


> How did we jump the tracks to the WotC approvals process?




Because we were talking about how much the Drizzt novels came to dominate the "official" view of the Underdark in the Frogotten Realms, and how the baggage that those novels accumulated over the course of time began to circumscribe the freedom of GMs to make their FR Underdark into what they wanted -- and not simply as that realm was depicted in the novels?

If you've never read a Drizzt novel, and your players haven't read one -- then maybe it has little or no effect?

If you have read a novel, or your players have, and the official FR Underdark materials are steeped and aligned with the increasingly large Salvatore "mythos" of Dizzt and the Drow? It becomes *vastly* more difficult to do this with the same degree of freedom.

The counter to this view was voiced as _:"The Underdark is a big place, I can do whatever I want. Ignore all tht novel stuff"
_
It might be a Big Place, but Big Place or not, my point was that WotC still feels very constrained (and it's just as Big to them).  

You might not feel constrained. That's fine. Many other DMs in the Forgotten Realms, however, *did* feel constrained -- just as WotC felt increasingly constrained.  To some people, "canon" matters concerning these matters and they feel bound by it -- or their players do. (*Note*: That observation is _not_ intended to be used in an approving or a pejorative manner. In no way is it implied to be a "canon respecter=good, canon ignorer=bad. It's intended to be a factual statement only) 

The original point out of all of this is that, happily, almost NONE of this baggage is brought to the Darklands, which is all to the good and was the point of this increasingly tangential discussion.

That's how we got here  

Sure is dark in here though -- and BIG, too!


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## Crothian (May 31, 2010)

Carrion Hill is another one I got cheap.  Reading it it presents a good mystery with dark over tones.  I think I would play up the mystery and investigation part more and would be tempted to make more villains humans that were just off or insane and less monsters.  That way when the real monsters at the climax combat are seen and dealt with it makes them see more monstrous.


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## Raven Crowking (May 31, 2010)

James Jacobs said:


> Thanks for the kind words, everyone!




I picked up Carrion Hill at full price, at Hairy Tarantula here in Toronto.  

Money well spent!

The atmosphere is great, the encounters are great.  Fun to read and (so far) fun to play.  I am playing a converted version, intertwined with other events in my campaign milieu, and the PCs have just gotten to the cavern with the ghoul encounter.  I picked up a loop of crow noises and rain to play during the above-ground sections, and have Sounds of the Earth for deep water dripping down below.

My players are well creeped out already, and I couldn't be happier.



James Jacobs said:


> We're VERY unlikely to do any world-shaking events in Golarion anytime soon. I'm not really a fan of turning worlds upside down and changing the way things work.




Thank you.

I believe that to be a wise decision.


RC


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## IronWolf (Jun 1, 2010)

Steel_Wind said:


> The original point out of all of this is that, happily, almost NONE of this baggage is brought to the Darklands, which is all to the good and was the point of this increasingly tangential discussion.
> 
> That's how we got here
> 
> Sure is dark in here though -- and BIG, too!




Not sure I agree on the route of how we got here, but any event I do agree our discussion is increasingly tangential to the thread, so I'm willing to agree to disagree for the moment and move on.


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## Eridanis (Jun 1, 2010)

Let's get the thread back on track, please. The FR Underdark discussion is interesting, so please fork it to another thread if you wish to continue.

I love the "cut one tree/plant two" analogy. It's good advice for DMs as well as for game designers.


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## rich pett (Jun 5, 2010)

I never do spend enough time on these fine threads.

I'm pleased to see Carrion Hill haunting a few sessions and delighted some GMs are having fun with their players there, as ever that fine Mr Jacobs deserves much of the kudos for dragging Carrion Hill from the sinking mire of forgotten submissions, alas the Styes, one day she may return. 

This was a fun adventure to write and I'd love to walk the streets here again; actually love may be too kind a word: _walk its streets in joyful loathing_ may be a better way to put it. I do think Ustalav is a great place of wonderful horror, and I'm delighted I can upset some players in the Hill's rain drenched miserable rotting streets - huzzah!. I'd be more than delighted to return, although I'd also love to see what a sick and twisted character (like for example Mr Tim Hitchcock) would spawn here

Rich


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## SoldierBlue (Jun 5, 2010)

Mr. Pett, two questions:

1)  Did you have a chance to DM _Carrion Hill_?

2)  If so, how did it play out for your players?

Again, kudos on a very satisfying module...


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## rich pett (Jun 6, 2010)

What I generally do is run adventures for my own group, where I can experiment a lot more, and cherry-pick the best bits to go into written adventures. So with Carrion Hill, the adventure is very much based upon an adventure I ran quite some time ago where the PCs were beseiged in a city district and confined by a religous order until they solved the adventure, which of course involved a high CR creature and people dying copiously about them. 

So the answer is yes and no. The adventure as ran did go well, and as we're all old friends its pretty easy to pick out what runs well, what doesn't, and as a consequence never sees a draft, and those bits that need more work.

It's interesting as it also shows that adventures generally can work across genres - so for example I'm just about to start playing Hotwar, and the oppressive nature of that glorious setting will doubtless emerge in the future in my own adventures, so expect some backstabbing and dubious politicans in due course

Rich


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## ruemere (Jun 6, 2010)

HotWar?

Would that be too much to ask to share your experiences with us? Especially as to how the system works... I'm worried it does not allow to simulate character's freedom to act properly.

Regards,
Ruemere

PS. I've been toying with an idea to return to one of my old campaign ideas for Kult [1], and ColdCity/HotWar sounds like a nice background for a few twisted trips to London dark side. However, I remain undecided on the system to use (Kult, Savage Worlds or ColdCity/HotWar).

[1] To the uninitiated: Kult is about exploring and discovery. Unfortunately for the players (and many GMs), the process is incredibly disturbing, and it's really easy for the game to deviate into cheap torture porn [2]. So, unless you are reasonably sure of your sanity and ability to deal with mature stuff, do not try to find more about this particular game. And if you do, well, you were warned.

[2] For the record: I abhor this particular genre.


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## rich pett (Jun 6, 2010)

ruemere said:


> HotWar?
> 
> Would that be too much to ask to share your experiences with us? Especially as to how the system works... I'm worried it does not allow to simulate character's freedom to act properly.
> 
> ...




Hello Ruemere,

It's only written so far, we're just about to start playing, but it should work very well as our group love a good mix, a gore-fest followed by heavy RPG work very well for us.

It depends on what you're after, Hotwar certainly has an unusual take on collective actions and storybuilding, it wouldn't work with my group, who each tend to have agendas and like to have a story directed at them so they can work their way into it at their own pace. However, the setting is absolutely mad and ticks all my quatermass/day of the triffids/cthulhu/shifty politicans boxes so I feel I must play it and write it. I cannot, in truth, recommend it highly enough for anyone into that genre, even just as a read. Plus of course its a small British studio so I'm biased but it is clearly a labour of love.

We'll be using D20 modern, but to be honest it doesn't matter even if you don't want to stick with the rules in the book, its a very RPG game anyway so I think Cthulhu would work well for example.

Rich


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## ruemere (Jun 6, 2010)

rich pett said:


> Hello Ruemere,
> 
> It's only written so far, we're just about to start playing, but it should work very well as our group love a good mix, a gore-fest followed by heavy RPG work very well for us.




In that case, kindly share your impressions after a session or two. I have a few months before any of my concepts will have a chance to solidify into scenario, and I would really welcome someone else's insights.

For now, two most entertaining ideas to pursue, would be to produce a sequel to certain semi-official campaign featuring Jim Morrison impersonator (the concept is not grandma friendly) with London being the final stand of humanity, and the other, quite more timid, would deal with V for Vendetta's type of a problem, albeit with a much darker conspiracy behind it.



> It depends on what you're after, Hotwar certainly has an unusual take on collective actions and storybuilding, it wouldn't work with my group, who each tend to have agendas and like to have a story directed at them so they can work their way into it at their own pace. However, the setting is absolutely mad and ticks all my quatermass/day of the triffids/cthulhu/shifty politicans boxes so I feel I must play it and write it. I cannot, in truth, recommend it highly enough for anyone into that genre, even just as a read. Plus of course its a small British studio so I'm biased but it is clearly a labour of love.




That's all the recommendation I need 



> We'll be using D20 modern, but to be honest it doesn't matter even if you don't want to stick with the rules in the book, its a very RPG game anyway so I think Cthulhu would work well for example.
> 
> Rich




I've played both d20 Modern and d20 Cthulhu. You may want to go with the latter, as creation is much more freeform. Some d20 Modern conventions may be too one-sided for socially complicated interactions (at least as per HotWar preview - I have ordered both books, as per your stellar opinion).

Regards,
Ruemere


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## mach1.9pants (Jun 7, 2010)

[/off topic] Ruemere, I am afraid your sig is _not_ fit, the link is broken [/off topic]

Carry on


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## SoldierBlue (Jun 7, 2010)

rich pett said:


> What I generally do is run adventures for my own group, where I can experiment a lot more, and cherry-pick the best bits to go into written adventures. So with Carrion Hill, the adventure is very much based upon an adventure I ran quite some time ago where the PCs were beseiged in a city district and confined by a religous order until they solved the adventure, which of course involved a high CR creature and people dying copiously about them.
> 
> So the answer is yes and no. The adventure as ran did go well, and as we're all old friends its pretty easy to pick out what runs well, what doesn't, and as a consequence never sees a draft, and those bits that need more work.
> 
> ...




Very cool - thanks.  As I've indicated earlier, I really liked how smart PC actions early on were rewarded, and I like how interesting the set-piece encounters were.  During many of our encounters, each PC was embroiled in his own sub-encounter (often struggling for his life!), and each of these were full of colour and drama.

One of my friends said the sessions re-ignited his gaming fire...


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## ruemere (Jun 7, 2010)

mach1.9pants said:


> [/off topic] Ruemere, I am afraid your sig is _not_ fit, the link is broken [/off topic]
> 
> Carry on




Corrected. Been like that for 6 or 7 years 
Shortened due to new .signature restrictions.

Regards,
Ruemere


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## rich pett (Jun 7, 2010)

SoldierBlue said:


> Very cool - thanks. As I've indicated earlier, I really liked how smart PC actions early on were rewarded, and I like how interesting the set-piece encounters were. During many of our encounters, each PC was embroiled in his own sub-encounter (often struggling for his life!), and each of these were full of colour and drama.
> 
> One of my friends said the sessions re-ignited his gaming fire...




Splendid stuff, and I'm particularly delighted one of your friends enjoyed it so much.

rich


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 9, 2010)

ruemere said:


> (heavy spoilers ahead)
> 
> Carrion Hill monsters are [sblock]
> as follows:
> ...




The BBEG has some entertaining possibilities in regards to figures, once it is made visible.

One that I will be unable to use (Damn you Sota toys!) is the Sota Dagon figure.





$250 is a bit much, and the original plastic toy is long gone.  If I had it, this would be my prime choice.

I might use some of the GW Chaos figures -




Beast of Nurgle





Chaos Spawn

RAFM has a figure based on



Spoiler



the HPL original from The Dunwich Horror


, but I am not overly fond of it. 

The Auld Grump


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## SoldierBlue (Jun 10, 2010)

Very cool.  I hope you don't use these to scare the kids!


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 10, 2010)

SoldierBlue said:


> Very cool.  I hope you don't use these to scare the kids!



That's the whole point! 

I have drowned 'em, mauled 'em, burned 'em, and left the frozen bodies of their friends encased in ice!

And they keep coming back for more. 

The Auld Grump


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