# OOC Discussion for A Kingdom of Ashes (The Battle of the Alder's Forest, and Beyond)



## The_Universe (Jun 26, 2004)

Here's our new OOC discussion thread!  

Brother Shatterstone, is this going to help?  

Everyone else, feel free to post here until we get the original thread all worked out.


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## Archon (Jun 26, 2004)

*woa*

we almost broke ENWorld.....oops.


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## Xath (Jun 26, 2004)

Hooray for the new thread!! It's already on my favorites links.


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## The_Universe (Jun 26, 2004)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92500&page=1&pp=20

There's a link to the old thread.  Hopefully, we won't lose it.  Brother Shatterstone has closed it down, and so this is our new home for the moment.

I'll let you know if I hear anything more about our old thread from the Mods.  

Thanks, gang, and happy posting!


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 28, 2004)

Can we play next weekend?  Or is that not an option... I don't remember.


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## Laurel (Jun 28, 2004)

*Game day(s) week of June 28th*

Hi! Found the page  HAha  .... Sorry to EnWorld... 

On play time: 

*EDIT:* Wow I get off next Monday!!! Today is still definitely out for greg and I. 
_'Yea' for Tuesday._
I would also vote a_ 'yea' for combo-_ few hours tuesday & few hours sunday morning/monday afternoon?
But this is only one vote...


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## The_Universe (Jun 28, 2004)

Wednesday and Thursday are out, because of the Comedian, and Spiderman.  

That leaves Tuesday, essentially.  Or tonight, I suppose...but tomorrow would definitely be better, if those are the two main options.  Additionally, BearingPoint is closed on Monday, so I can play Sunday night or Monday afternoon, if that helps with people's schedules.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm pretty flexible, so I can make any of those times.  I expect I'll have monday off as well.


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## The_Universe (Jun 28, 2004)

Good deal.  Jeremiah--are you at work, today? I am trying to figure out the army stats for the big battle in the spare moments here at my work.


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## Laurel (Jun 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Good deal. Jeremiah--are you at work, today? I am trying to figure out the army stats for the big battle in the spare moments here at my work.



And Jeremiah just entered nirvana


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## Xath (Jun 28, 2004)

I object to your signature!

Xath the dwarf was adorable.  Not sexy.


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## The_Universe (Jun 28, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I object to your signature!
> 
> Xath the dwarf was adorable.  Not sexy.



 She was probably sexy to other dwarves...


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## AIM-54 (Jun 28, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Good deal.  Jeremiah--are you at work, today? I am trying to figure out the army stats for the big battle in the spare moments here at my work.




Yeah, I'm at work, so I can't really help there.  Lemme know if I can help out with anything for once I get home and have access to my precious...errr...Cry Havoc...


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## Laurel (Jun 28, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I object to your signature!
> Xath the dwarf was adorable. Not sexy.



There, you are now adorable Xath the dwarf  
Originally I was going with sexy elf.... but well, that would have given stuff away, so I went with Dwarf...
Anyone else have issues with their descriptor?


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## The_Universe (Jun 28, 2004)

Can I get a general "yay" or "nay" on whether we're playing tomorrow, or sunday, or monday, or some combination of the above?  

Do I need to send out an e-mail about it?


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## AIM-54 (Jun 28, 2004)

General Yay says JC is a go for playing tomorrow night, if that is the way we go on this.

Otherwise I suppose I can wait a little longer for glorious, glorious battle...


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## The_Universe (Jun 28, 2004)

*Seeeeeecrets!*

OK--since the thread appears to be dead (or dying) as we gird our real minds and fictional bodies for the great upcoming battle, I have a question for the future.  

Before we get bent out of shape of getting ahead of ourselves, I'm not asking for concrete decisions.   But I do want to get a general feel of what you want.  If you should happen to win this battle, you'll be very near reaching your goal of freeing Oceanus.  If you should happen to lose, there will likely be so few of the original populace left that there will be no point in attempting to win back the city, at all.  As such, start thinking (and posting about the following:  

Where do you want to see the campaign go, after this battle is fought?  When I ask "where" I mean that in a literal sense (ie, we want to go to Caer Albion!  We want to go to Sylvannus!  We want to go back to Thanesport!) and in a more general sense--what tone do we (you?) want the game to take on after this (We want more diplomacy--embroil us in the political intrigue of the fast-collapsing falcon kingdom! We want to assassinate the king!  We want more allies, let's get down to the business of gathering a real army!  Let's search for some spirit blades!)?

How will the outcome of this battle effect the direction of the campaign? 

What if we win, but Jaine dies?
What if we lose and Jaine dies?
What if we lose but Jaine lives?
What if we win and the Black Orcs live, too?
What if we win, and all that's left are Black Orcs?
What if L'Aurel dies?
Archon?
Justice?
Xath?
Kaereth?
Arfin?  

I am happy to answer questions from you on all counts, as I can try to characterize how I envision each mini-quest ending up, what movies or books you could compare it to, how long it would last, etc.  

As I have noted before, I was essentially blindsided by the "Let's free Oceanus!" thing, and I would like to be a little bit better prepared, this time.   

All of the above are just quick notes on my part--there are a great many more options than the ones we've listed above. 

So, get thinking, and please post your thoughts.  Now's not the time to horde in-character secrets (regarding heritage, teachers, emperors, and a host of other things you're still keeping private), especially if you want to have an effect on the direction of the campaign in the near future. So, let's get this stuff in the open air (ooc, at least) and make sure that we're all happy with what the game ahead will bring.


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## The_Universe (Jun 28, 2004)

It took me almost 15 seconds to figure out who General Yay was.  *shakes head* I am a retard.


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## Xath (Jun 28, 2004)

> What if we win, but Jaine dies?




We either need to ressurect her or find a replacement.  We would have to know Jaine's wishes on that matter, as she may wish to appoint someone to take her place in the event of her death.  Or she may wish to be ressurected.



> What if we lose and Jaine dies?




Well, we're essentially screwed.  We're enemies to the king, with no army, no allies, and no queen.  We could attempt to start over again, or we could all give up and swear fealty to Tain!!



> What if we lose but Jaine lives?




We'll have to protect her.  I think the best bet would be to take her to Sylvannus, as that is our best bet for finding allies.



> What if we win and the Black Orcs live, too?




We honor our agreement, obviously.



> What if we win, and all that's left are Black Orcs?




Well, we still honor our agreement.  But we really have nowhere to go from there.



> What if L'Aurel dies?  Archon?  Justice?  Xath?  Kaereth?  Arfin?




Well, we should ask each character their wishes.  Would you want your character to be ressurected?  Or how would you want funeral arrangements to be handled?  It makes a difference to what happens depending on how many PCs die.


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## The_Universe (Jun 28, 2004)

In case you missed the e-mail, we're playing tomorrow.  I should be home by 6, we'll try to start by 6:30/6:15.  

CRY HAVOC!  (and let the slip the dogs of WAR!)


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## Laurel (Jun 28, 2004)

*Can't we just wish none of our allies die (except the orc)...*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> What if we win, but Jaine dies?



Leave the town in the hands of Duke or some NPC and we move on and try to find Filmore who is next closest to throne.  Is Arhconus close enough blood wise to mean anything?  L'Aurel does not like the idea of Jaine's hubby (Filmore) getting it.


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> What if we lose and Jaine dies?



 Move as our small party only -- assassinate the king or get a spirit blade.


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> What if we lose but Jaine lives?



 Relocate.  Know Hywrl and Oceanus are lost causes and there is a bigger picture. 


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> What if we win and the Black Orcs live, too?



If Jaine is alive it depends on what exactly her final agreement was- we would have to honor it if we want any sort of honor associated with us..... 


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> What if we win, and all that's left are Black Orcs?



 Then no one is around to see us slaughter them- hey no lawfulness here 


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> What if L'Aurel dies? Archon? Justice? Xath? Kaereth? Arfin?



See Xath's comment above... pretty much the same.  Do we want a policy on major NPC's or should we ask them -Duke (we brought him back once), Joshua, Dorn...


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## Laurel (Jun 28, 2004)

*Just an idea bouncer*



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Well, we should ask each character their wishes. Would you want your character to be ressurected? Or how would you want funeral arrangements to be handled? It makes a difference to what happens depending on how many PCs die.



Or we just go with if less then half of us die then we try for ressurected- the PC can say no and refuse to leave heaven or wherever they went to.
But if anyone is a definate 'no' then obviously we go with that for that PC.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 29, 2004)

I am of two minds of where I stand on the "where do we go from here" issue:

OOC:  Build/recruit an army and let's rock and roll.  War is my reason for being and I sure didn't invest in Cry Havoc for the pretty pictures   
On the other hand, I love a good dungeon crawl and looking for a spirit blade might fulfill that tiny desire, as well. 

IC:  The real Dragon Emperor is my master!  That's where Lord Miagi went.  That's where I want to be...must ensure Master Ryoko's safety...To One Oak!

I am not going to go through every possible contingency because that would be a) boring and b) destroy the fun of being forced to make important decisions on the fly, where can't sit and bicker for hours because we're hideously risk-averse.

In the words of Admiral Farragut, "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!"


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Or we just go with if less then half of us die then we try for ressurected- the PC can say no and refuse to leave heaven or wherever they went to.
> But if anyone is a definate 'no' then obviously we go with that for that PC.



 I think it needs to be a personal choice made by the characters...

And, Justice would, most likely, say "no."  It's not that she doesn't love fighting for good and smiting the evil... she is just sort of weirded out by the whole concept of coming back from the dead... and maybe a little bent on the fact that destiny holds for us what it will-- when we are taken from this world, we are meant to leave it... and, I'm not going to question destiny.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 29, 2004)

If Jaine dies, I would say, we need a replacement-- but, we should ask Jaine if she would want to be brought back... if she does, we can try that.
But, in that light, I don't know if we have clerics of high enough level to bring them back.

Justice is, at this point, wanting more information about the invading army than we currently have.  She, in her not-quite as infinite wisdom as Kaereth, would want to travel to One Oak to meet the old Dragon Emperor.

She does note, however, there is merit in the plan to travel to the Isle of Mourning and to get us a spirit blade while, at the same time, continuing to build a kick-butt army to take down the draconids! HUZZAH!


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

You can't resurrect somebody that doesn't want to be resurrected--so no worries there.  At worst, you'll be wasting magic.  However, remember that the clerics are all a little bit leary of such things, and the only time you've seen someone return from the dead it was either at the cost of tremendous magical power (a wish) or in a very different way than she expected (dwarf Xath is now elf Xath).  Furthermore, other than yourselves, the only person to attempt such a feat was insane at the time...

Does that mean resurrection isn't possible?  Of course not!  It's in the PHB, and if you can use it, you can use it.  But I don't want death to hold no risk for you all.  

Heroes are heroes because they do the things they do at great personal cost.  IC, you're all learning what everyone who's ever read a comic book already knows.  Just remember that the risks exist, and be happy to damn the torpedoes, anyway!   

I'm looking forward to playign tomorrow, hoping to see a great battle resolved on the field of our imaginations.


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## Laurel (Jun 29, 2004)

*round 'n round in circles we go....*

As for the whole bringing people back... I have no idea... I guess L'aurel would want to come back or at least have it tried... she knows what it entails having seen it being done to Xath and the Duke, and talking to Xath afterwards... but if the time actually comes ::Shrug:: ?



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> IC: The real Dragon Emperor is my master! That's where Lord Miagi went. That's where I want to be...must ensure Master Ryoko's safety...To One Oak!



L'aurel now knowing this would agree with One Oak.  He knows too much for us not to go there.  We even already have a boat... now to see if we lose, if we have enough sailors to sail away very fast to where ever we go...
Once we chat with him and/or get more information, we can raise an army, go after a spirit blade, or whatever.
Can't he also be our back-up ruler for Jaine?


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Can't he also be our back-up ruler for Jaine?



 You might have a hard time selling this one to the general populace.  Master Ryoko may share some strange blood tie with Jaine, but whatever it is would be distant, indeed.  

Essentially, it would be just a little closer than the the emperor of Japan claiming the throne of Britain--both are royal, and thus share certain qualities, but they're not interchangeable.  

This isn't to say that you can't just conquer the kingdom and put whomever you want on the throne.  At that point, legitimate claims don't really matter.


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## Laurel (Jun 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> This isn't to say that you can't just conquer the kingdom and put whomever you want on the throne. At that point, legitimate claims don't really matter.



That was more the route I was thinking, yes... 
Thoughts: Master Ryoko has experience as ruler and being a good ruler, we are taking the falcon kingdom from it's current ruler anyways, and the three closest blood ties to throne are Jaine, Filmore, and Tain.  If Jaine dies we may be stuck going to someone with less claim then Tain anyways.
Unless there are more others out there we/I don't know about.
We could also get to One Oak and Master Ryoko (sp?) doesn't want the job... who knows.. 
Not really a decision to make now, but something to keep in mind in case we need a back-up.


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## Xath (Jun 29, 2004)

Hey guys,

Have we decided how to get to Hyrule?  Here are a few options.

Teleporting:  At this point, It would be difficult to obtain a scroll of teleportation.  So for options, we can use the last charge of the boots, taking four people to Hyrule.  However, two people would be left behind.

Flying:  Thane and Ohtar could fly some, but not all of us without becoming burdened.  If we flew, we would make it back to Hyrule immediately before the fleeing elves.  We'd have no time to rest/replenish resources.

Combo:  4 of us could teleport back, leaving 2 to fly back on Thane and Ohtar.  These two would not have time to replenish resources, and would be at risk because they would be separated from the group.

-G


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

Of course.  But remember, there are others that (technically) have a legitimate claim to the throne...some of whom you know.  L'Aurel's a baroness by blood, but she has no royal claim.  On the other hand, everyon's favorite Viscount might have an opportunity to throw his hat in the ring...


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## Xath (Jun 29, 2004)

All hail King Archonus?

But then the question is...which one?


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## Laurel (Jun 29, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> Have we decided how to get to Hyrule? Here are a few options.
> Teleporting: At this point, It would be difficult to obtain a scroll of teleportation. So for options, we can use the last charge of the boots, taking four people to Hyrule. However, two people would be left behind.
> Flying: Thane and Ohtar could fly some, but not all of us without becoming burdened. If we flew, we would make it back to Hyrule immediately before the fleeing elves. We'd have no time to rest/replenish resources.
> ...



For immediate transport out and back inside the walls I thought there was an option of Kareth taking some via Dimension Door Monk equivalent and Xath using the last of the boot teleport.  
But this means flying into position, so we have the last teleport for getting out.  Unless Xath is saving/using one of her spells to also cast dimension door for getting in or out...?...


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## Laurel (Jun 29, 2004)

*And Archonus removes his hat and throws it into the ring gate.*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Of course. But remember, there are others that (technically) have a legitimate claim to the throne...some of whom you know. L'Aurel's a baroness by blood, but she has no royal claim. On the other hand, everyon's favorite Viscount might have an opportunity to throw his hat in the ring...



Yes, but Tain has a better claim blood wise then any of them correct? He tried to kill everyone else with a higher claim-- well, that he knew existed at least--
I know that we knew what line Arhconus came from, but has he told us he is that high up in the house o' lords or any details of his family besides the little info. from pestering him on the boat?  

Also for the DM, if a PC croaks, they are starting at level 1 with a new character right??


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> For immediate transport out and back inside the walls I thought there was an option of Kareth taking some via Dimension Door Monk equivalent and Xath using the last of the boot teleport.
> But this means flying into position, so we have the last teleport for getting out.  Unless Xath is saving/using one of her spells to also cast dimension door for getting in or out...?...



 The Boot/Kaereth's Dimension door will work for getting in and out of Hyrwl once you reach the battlefield--that much has been decided.  I think Gertie's question related to how you were going to get to Hyrwl from where you are currently, which 20-40 miles away.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 29, 2004)

Master Ryoko has his own kingdom, if he's going to rule anywhere, it'll be there.  Kaereth would be very much against trying to set him up in Jaine's place.

As far as getting places, we still have plenty of time.  We've just killed Syvattagor, at which point the army has not moved out and, with his disappearance, there's a good chance things are slightly confused, probably causing some delay.  Secondly, if I remember correctly, Hyrwl is 30 miles away from Oceanus.  This means it will take at least a full day of travel and probably a little longer for the army to get there.  I'm not sure about the draconids need to rest/movement rates etc, but I do know that no massed army moves quickly or efficiently.  It's just too difficult to keep all the elements together to ensure that you remain together so that you can strike the enemy en masse, which is how you want to hit them, particularly under these circumstances.  I'm not sure how far away from Hyrwl we are, though, nor how long we might have to wait before the Black Orcs arrive, but I don't imagine it can be more than a days travel (and probably less, because any farther and our whole plan sorta crumbles).  Depending on what kind of preparation people need, we could have our two Black Orc contacts remain and wait for them while the rest teleport back to Hyrwl.  Then, Justice can summon the griffon and they can fly back.  Just an idea.


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## Laurel (Jun 29, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The Boot/Kaereth's Dimension door will work for getting in and out of Hyrwl once you reach the battlefield--that much has been decided. I think Gertie's question related to how you were going to get to Hyrwl from where you are currently, which 20-40 miles away.



Right, but we only have one teleport for the boots, so if we plan to use them to get out of battle we have to eliminate them as an idea of how to move from where we are now to the battlefield. 
So we are left with flying or somethign else (I think it was mentioned that Xath could DD once, so mentioned it, just trying to think of poss.)
That was all I was trying to say.

*Edit*:: Looking at Jeremiah's stuff.  Got it about the rulership, Kareth would know best  
Also, if we have the time just flying back works.  
Plus: No more of Xath's magic has to be tapped, faster and less tiring then us running it 
Minus: Justice has to call Thane, so he is there till she dismisses him.  Which also means if needed he can not poof beside her later on.
(I know there are more on both + and - but these were the first ones that popped into my head)

Are we giving the black orcs the ring gate? To send messages back and forth with Hywrl?


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## Xath (Jun 29, 2004)

According to Kennon, all of us flying back would encumber both Thane and Ohtar, meaning that we would get back to Hyrule with the fleeing elves right on our heels.  Teleporting would give us a chance to replenish resources, but 2 people would be left behind to get back some other way.

Why? Because we're sitting waiting for the black orcs.  Waiting for them gives the army a chance to move.


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

If you wait for the black orcs, and FLY (even encumbered) you ought to be able to get there ahead of the fleeing elves. However, even with the power of flight, you won't have a lot of time.  Maybe an hour in-game, perhaps two.  As far as how much *real* time there'll be--not much at all.  The battle will be long and complicated, and so get whatever planning you can done, here.  It'll probably only be 15-20 minutes of time before the battle starts in real life, if I have anything to say about it...

And you need to tell the Black Orcs what they're going to be doing, as they aren't aware that they are marching from the Southern Hills directly into battle.


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## Laurel (Jun 29, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> According to Kennon, all of us flying back would encumber both Thane and Ohtar, meaning that we would get back to Hyrule with the fleeing elves right on our heels. Teleporting would give us a chance to replenish resources, but 2 people would be left behind to get back some other way.
> Why? Because we're sitting waiting for the black orcs. Waiting for them gives the army a chance to move.



_We can not teleport in, as we have agreed to use the teleport for getting out.  Unless you have another way?_

We are 20-40 miles away.  
Regular flying it would take them 5.5 hours.
Hustling for them is 80 ft.x2, so it would take 2.75 hours.   
If we could, racing all out it would only take 1.83 hours (80ft x3 for max load)

"Mounted Movement: A mount bearing a rider can move at a hustle. The damage it takes when doing so, however, is lethal damage, not nonlethal damage."  So it would deal 1-2 points of actual damage to each animal.  I would be fine with Ohtar taking the penalty and damage  rather then use our last teleport now.  But this is only my side I have no idea on Justice/Liz's feelings or thoughts here (or other people's).

*For resources*- we still have the ring gate right, why not use it? While we are standing around waiting for the black orcs to show.


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

You can try to use the ring gates as best you can, but the people in Hyrwl and New Oceanus are busy preparing for the invasion, which means the ring gate is more than likely not manned full time--you might be able to get messages through, etc., but they may not get read until after the battle.  

As for the black orcs...

What's that rumbling?  Do I see something on the Horizon...?  Yes you do.  It's the black orcs.  We'll start tonight with you all greeting them.


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## AIM-54 (Jun 29, 2004)

Did anyone actually bother to read my post?  Or comment on the time sets, both for what we can project the army's movement is?

How long are we there waiting for the Black Orcs?

I know it sucks to have someone who actually can conceive of this stuff in a realistic way and gets irritated with handwaving to try and create drama, but I just can't comprehend how we don't have more time than people seem to think, UNLESS, we're waiting for the Black Orcs for 12+ hours, at which point our decision-making would possibly change so that we can get at least some people there earlier.

EDIT:  Unless of course they're just sending their forces haphazardly, not worrying about maintaining massed forces.


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## Xath (Jun 29, 2004)

Just using the info TheUniverse gave me.  I don't calculate these types of things.


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

OK--Jeremiah, I can help you out here.  Sorry if it seems like I was handwaving, too much.  In the end, it really does all make sense...I'm just trying not to get bogged down in minutiae.    

You killed Syvattagor in the morning--we'll say it happened at 10am, although I wasn't calculating.  We'll say you encounter the black orcs an hour later, thus giving you a reasonable amount of time to have had the OOC and IC discussions that we've had thus far, since Syvattagor's death.  So, it's 11am when the Black Orcs arrive.  Let's say it'll take you a half-hour to talk to them, tell them the plan, etc.  So, it's 11:30 before you can start to move back to Hyrwl.  

It takes about 6 hours for a small group of dedicated people to get from Oceanus to Hyrwl.  If the army marches at a relatively leisurely pace, it would still only take them between 7 and 7.5 hours. So if they leave after Syvattagor disappears (I'll be generous, and say that it takes them an hour to regroup, forward elements could arrive by the rough equivalent of 5pm, but might be as late as 6:30.  Ghouls don't get tired, and the draconids are well-disciplined.  Estimate short, just in case.  It's mid-autumn, so there's no way this battle will begin any later than nightfall.  

Since the flying mounts are ULTRA-encumbered, it'll take them more than a little while to get the approx. 30 miles from where you are to Hyrwl.  On foot, hussling, you guys could get there by 5.  Since the mounts are so encumbered, I'll say the travel time is approximately 2/3s of that it would be, normally (that *is* a bit of DM handwaving).  You make the 30 miles in 4 hours, which gets you to Hyrwl (assuming you leave at 11:30am) 3:30.  

Essentially, from this point, you have (in-character) between an hour and a half and 3 hours to do whatever preparations you need, all while the city girds itself for war.  As much as possible, I am going to try to condense these preparations, so that the battle can be fought (or at least started), tonight.  

Remember, when Xath grabbed Syvattagor, they were already ready to march.  He was in the midst of a "win one for the gipper!" speech when she grabbed him.  As I have noted individually to a couple people, although Syvattagor's absence has slowed them down, these aren't mongol hordes.  They don't have to go home when the Khan dies to pick a new one.  

Hope that helps!


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## AIM-54 (Jun 29, 2004)

See, now it makes sense.  Although it seems to be ignoring the movement rules in the DMG, but that's a DM decision, which generally suggests 24 miles per day over average terrain.  I may have been recalling the distance between Hyrwl and Oceanus incorrectly, but I had thought it was 30 miles, thus suggesting it would take, at best probably 2/3 of a day to travel that distance, but understanding that armies never move "at best" speed, particularly over distance I inserted some extra time.

That's where I was coming from, but your explanation clearly can fit within the framework.  So, alles klar.


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## The_Universe (Jun 29, 2004)

I had forgotten completely about the rules in the DMG about how much space could be covered in a single day.  

I was basing my rough calculations on an anecdote from Mik, on how long it took his unit, while encumbered with full gear, to do a long march during basic, combined with the fact that I can walk a mile in about 15 minutes.  Assuming that medieval/late renaissance technology and the presence of magic roughly even out to modern day speeds, and the fact that we're dealing with an essentially "magical" army on the part of the draconids, I guessed shorter than the DMG apparently says.  

But, even if we assume that at a brisk pace, it would take them 2/3 of a day to go the distance, 6-7.5 hours isn't _too_ off, at all.  I believe the "day" of travel is only daylight hours, assuming you start to get ready to move at dawn, and quit at nightfall.  

Anyway, no harm in reiterating the question--I was glad to explain it, as doing so helped get it all right in my head.


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2004)

The subscribed thread database has been wiped out, so I'm posting to get it added back to my personal databse.  We go to the effort of trying not to break enworld, and the damned thing breaks, anyway!


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2004)

Okay, let me break down how effective last night was:

The Serpentblood had a total of 6827 troops in their army before they entered the battle. 

They had the following army statistics before you obliterated their forward-most elements: 

*Average Defense: 13

Average Offense: 9

Maneuver Rating: 17

Command Rating: 365

Scout Rating 46

*After last night's battle, in what was roughly 5-10 minutes of frenzied combat, the Serpentblood had been reduced to having no more than 5527 troops on the field. 

With heavy losses to the ghouls, this actually ended up increasing their average offense. Their new stats are:

*Average Defense: 13

Average Offense: 10

Maneuver Rating: 17

Command Rating: 365

Scout Rating: 46

*For obvious reasons, the Army of the Phoenix's stats are unaffected, as due to your action, there's essentially no way they could have taken any casualties. 

Hopefully, tonight, we can see how the first stage of the battle went.


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## Laurel (Jun 30, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Hopefully, tonight, we can see how the first stage of the battle went.



Not bad for what I thought was going to be a TPK or close to it last night.  It was cool having your brother there Kennon, and added a nice extra flare.

Yea, for mass combat that I don't get- so have fun those who do.

And to everyone who is going enjoy spiderman dos tonight!!!!


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2004)

Well, it could still end up as something like a TPK (or at least a PPK) as there is only going to be a minute in between the the end of the vilewight battle, and when the next wave will hit you.  

And, although they aren't as tough as vilewights, they are reasonably tougher than ghouls...


----------



## Laurel (Jun 30, 2004)

*Thundercats, Thundercats, Thundercats HO!*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, it could still end up as something like a TPK (or at least a PPK) as there is only going to be a minute in between the the end of the vilewight battle, and when the next wave will hit you.
> And, although they aren't as tough as vilewights, they are reasonably tougher than ghouls...



So long as everyone remembers that if Xath or Kareth start to get low on HP we have to leave, or only a few get out safely. The others um... well... yeah... 
Granted looking at the last rounds it will take a lot to phase either of them... well, I guess actually for Xath if Arhconus goes down she will start to feel it fast.  
Um... well, if Xath wasn't healing I would say why not hand off the teleport boots just in case.  It gives us one more way out, since Xath can Dimension Door some people and Kareth can Abundant Step others- but if one goes down suddenly, the boots can make up for that group.  Though we are trying to save the boot teleport I know.

But it doen't matter cuz we are undefeatable!!!


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## Laurel (Jun 30, 2004)

*If vilewights had treasure....*

 Arfin grabs the bag of holding while Xath is busy healing people, and starts collecting any and all treasure within reach  

(Obviously Greg would have to say that Arfin does this for it to actually happen I just wanted to share another pointless mind wandering by Kat)


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2004)

As with most undead, I believe that vilewights carry no treasure.  So, despite having incapacitated an almost-unbelievable amount of foes, you're no richer than you were before.   

But there will be other things to fight, I promise.


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## Xath (Jun 30, 2004)

L'aurel at some point will be able to cast cure moderate wounds.  Does that mean that she can use the wand?


----------



## Laurel (Jun 30, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> L'aurel at some point will be able to cast cure moderate wounds. Does that mean that she can use the wand?



Hmmm.... she can cast it two levels from now when she get 3rd level spells. She can already cast cure minor wounds if that helps.

*Edit:* I have at least one rank in use magic device  so I could always try and we just hope for the best, but we could also loose some zaps....


----------



## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2004)

As soon as she can cast cure moderate wounds, she can use the wand without having to Use Magic Device.  But, she's probably a little bit away from that...


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## The_Universe (Jul 1, 2004)

As another general question, when do we think we're going to be able to play again?  I know Keaton would love to join you on another one of your hair-raising adventures, but he leaves next wednesday.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 1, 2004)

*Some compliments from a guest...*

"well u know what..we should PLAY soon.. cause i really enjoyed both your game, and Mik's...u guys have a great group. But everyone in ur group is awesome..all great players...i wish i had a group this good." 

My little brother just messaged me this, asking when we were going to play, again.  Even if we don't get to get the whole group together again while he's here, I wanted you to get the compliments.  

Congrats.  You have a fan.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> As another general question, when do we think we're going to be able to play again? I know Keaton would love to join you on another one of your hair-raising adventures, but he leaves next wednesday.



He's a cool player and it would be fun to see more of Keaton as the dwarf (but even better Keaton as Keaton)  

We could try for Tuesday again, but I'm not sure on everyone's new work schedules how that would or if it even could work....

(PS- I put up a thread asking about the whip and AoO)


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 1, 2004)

Tuesday night might work (I have no conflicting plans, yet), but I don't want to overload people with playing.  I know this weekend is dead for KoA, but how does next weekend look?  I think Gertie is limited to 1 trip to NoVA per week until she gets a car (is that right, Gertie?), so we need to be judicious with how we spend our gaming hours, so we can get maximum participation.  

Also, Kat, thanks for posting the link to the whip thread.  I forgot that whips are only supposed to do subdual, and can't actually damage anyone with armor.  I'll keep reading, and I'll let you know my official thoughts when I post.


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## Laurel (Jul 1, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Tuesday night might work (I have no conflicting plans, yet), but I don't want to overload people with playing. I know this weekend is dead for KoA, but how does next weekend look?



Greg and I are out the weekends of July 9-11 and July 16-18 as we are out of town for both   So it would only be during the week that we both could get together. 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Also, Kat, thanks for posting the link to the whip thread. I forgot that whips are only supposed to do subdual, and can't actually damage anyone with armor. I'll keep reading, and I'll let you know my official thoughts when I post.



Yep, lots of stuff they are chatting about that I missed in the skimming of whip usage last game, but great learnin' for me.


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## Xath (Jul 1, 2004)

Is everyone else off monday?  Maybe we could play then.


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## The_Universe (Jul 1, 2004)

I am, in fact, off on Monday.  As is Liz.  Not sure about anyone else, nor am I sure if others in the gang already have plans...?


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## AIM-54 (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm pretty sure I'm off on Monday, since that's when the Federal Government takes off and CSIS follows their lead.  So I'm definitely up for then.  Even if we don't play KoA.   

Does anyone else think "Kampers of America" everytime they see that?

No?

*sigh*


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 2, 2004)

No--I don't think about Kampers. 

I don't even know who started abbreviating it that way, but I am pretty sure it wasn't me...

But it does save on typing time.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 2, 2004)

Um... no... no thoughts of Kampers.... sorry...

I am off work on Monday, but one of my bridesmaids is in town that day, so I am booked till she starts the long drive back to Boston.  
Favor to ask:: Could you, Kennon, send one your scheduling e-mails out   The boards may be great for everyone and everything else, but to make sure Greg gets his personal vote and not just what I think he would/should vote- can the scheduling be e-mail based?-- if it's okay -- Thanks--


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## The_Universe (Jul 2, 2004)

Just sent out the e-mail.  I wasn't trying to exclude Greg--just wanted to get a general feel for when and if people were free.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 3, 2004)

Sounds like Monday afternoon we'll be sans Kat and Greg, which would make playing (at this particular juncture) a bit difficult.  Tuesday night we'd be sans Gertie, which is essentially just as bad.  Oh well.  Suffice to say that Keaton had fun, and we'll leave him wantin' more.


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## The_Universe (Jul 4, 2004)

Happy 4th of July!


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## The_Universe (Jul 6, 2004)

Alright gang--back in the office after a long weekend.  Start with the discussing!  There may not be a whole lot we can do right now, but it can't hurt us to think a little bit ahead to where the story will take us after this battle...


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## Laurel (Jul 6, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> OK--since the thread appears to be dead (or dying) as we gird our real minds and fictional bodies for the great upcoming battle, I have a question for the future.
> Before we get bent out of shape of getting ahead of ourselves, I'm not asking for concrete decisions. But I do want to get a general feel of what you want. If you should happen to win this battle, you'll be very near reaching your goal of freeing Oceanus. If you should happen to lose, there will likely be so few of the original populace left that there will be no point in attempting to win back the city, at all. As such, start thinking (and posting about the following:
> Where do you want to see the campaign go, after this battle is fought? When I ask "where" I mean that in a literal sense (ie, we want to go to Caer Albion! We want to go to Sylvannus! We want to go back to Thanesport!) and in a more general sense--what tone do we (you?) want the game to take on after this (We want more diplomacy--embroil us in the political intrigue of the fast-collapsing falcon kingdom! We want to assassinate the king! We want more allies, let's get down to the business of gathering a real army! Let's search for some spirit blades!)?
> How will the outcome of this battle effect the direction of the campaign?
> ...



So we are still on this question?? I know Gerti and I submitted brief comments earlier.... not sure if those have changed though..... have to re-read.


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## Laurel (Jul 6, 2004)

*he asked we answered....*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> What if L'Aurel dies? Archon? Xath? Arfin?



If possible try to bring them back. I know Arfin put the stipulation of only if as himself basically. Was he the only one?



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Justice? Kaereth?



Let them reach go the path the light has chosen and reach Nirvana....

Did Keaton vote for his dwarf?  Hey, why not ask.... ?


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So we are still on this question?? I know Gerti and I submitted brief comments earlier.... not sure if those have changed though..... have to re-read.



 Yes.  I believe we are still on this question (although you all can feel free to take the discussion in a different direction).  I'm pretty sure we can't make any ultimate decision until the battle's outcome is known, anyway, but it can't hurt to think about it...


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## The_Universe (Jul 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> If possible try to bring them back. I know Arfin put the stipulation of only if as himself basically. Was he the only one?
> 
> Let them reach go the path the light has chosen and reach Nirvana....
> 
> Did Keaton vote for his dwarf?  Hey, why not ask.... ?



 I think this question has been answered.  As for Keaton's character, I'll be controlling him from this point forward, so whether he lives or dies is now entirely in my hands.  Neat character, though...


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## Laurel (Jul 6, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think this question has been answered. As for Keaton's character, I'll be controlling him from this point forward, so whether he lives or dies is now entirely in my hands. Neat character, though...



Yep it was answered... just wanted to put it down so we knew later and didn't forget... and in case anyone else wanted/had added 'yep only have my PC try to come back as the PC- same body and all.'
As for the dwarf


----------



## Laurel (Jul 6, 2004)

*I reserve the right to change these views at any time.*

In Brief-
Personally now knowing all that is in One Oak (thank you JC), that it is the best destination for us should we fail.  _Why not?_
If we succeed? Continue to Oceanus, and then on to One Oak?

Do we even know if Miagi was trying to bring master Ryoko to Hywrl, or was he just going there to speak with him and then....something?

I, as Kat, am of the opinion if an NPC dies 'eh, let 'em go' this in my opinion would include Jaine though.  If Jaine goes buh-bye, we just become rebels to the king trying to take him and all his evil minions down.  
Though I am just on this side of that opinion, as I am mostly 'eh, whatever'.


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## AIM-54 (Jul 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Do we even know if Miagi was trying to bring master Ryoko to Hywrl, or was he just going there to speak with him and then....something?




As I recall and understand it, Miagi was going to serve as his protector.  There was never any mention of bringing him to Hyrwl, which, IMO would only endanger him needlessly.  Indeed, along those lines, it may be safer for Ryoko if we don't go to One Oak.  I don't think that thought deters Kaereth's desire to go there, however.


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## Laurel (Jul 6, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> As I recall and understand it, Miagi was going to serve as his protector. There was never any mention of bringing him to Hyrwl, which, IMO would only endanger him needlessly. Indeed, along those lines, it may be safer for Ryoko if we don't go to One Oak. I don't think that thought deters Kaereth's desire to go there, however.



Thanks for the answers and as you said, it would make more sense for Miagi to not be running him around. But not everyone even the NPC's always do the smart or wise thing 

It may endanger Ryoko if we go to One Oak, but he may know things we need to know. If we decide to not go there though...

Sylvanus is one destination that gets brought up each time, but so far as I and my character knows there is no one there to contact for support with money, arms, warriors, or information so not the choice destination. If I am wrong speak up.

Gatherin' a blade.... eh, always a possiblity. And we are now 12th level trying to keep it out of thier hands. Not my personal top choice, but hey we would get to fight and run around so OOC it gets the fun vote.

*Edit:* We just say forget the falcon kingdom and instead kidnap Master Ryoko back to his land.


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## The_Universe (Jul 6, 2004)

*What to do, what to do...*

Good post Kat--gave me a couple of things to think about.  But now, onto the comments...



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Thanks for the answers and as you said, it would make more sense for Miagi to not be running him around. But not everyone even the NPC's always do the smart or wise thing
> 
> It may endanger Ryoko if we go to One Oak, but he may know things we need to know. If we decide to not go there though...
> 
> *Edit:* We just say forget the falcon kingdom and instead kidnap Master Ryoko back to his land.



If information is all you need, there's something to be said for writing letters.  While there isn't an equivalent of the USPS in the Falcon Kingdom, there are messengers who can be hired for varying prices, depending on the degree of speed, security, and privacy that you might want.  You could, relatively harmlessly, try to get a letter to Kaereth's master, and see what he could tell you.  However, you're looking at a couple of weeks between responses with that option...

Presumably, there might be magical ways to speed the transmission  of such messages, but doing so might require further use of those pesky blue mages...maybe even everyone's favorite blue mage--Arthur Cawys, bartender and black marketeer _extraordinaire_!  Then again, it may not.  You'd have to ask IC, for which we have a different thread.



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Sylvanus is one destination that gets brought up each time, but so far as I and my character knows there is no one there to contact for support with money, arms, warriors, or information so not the choice destination. If I am wrong speak up.



You actually have several Sylvannus connections, should you choose to employ them.  (1) Everyone's favorite broody Viscount is potentially the ruler of Sylvannus, as his parents and sister disappeared some months ago, shortly before he was set to hunt down that pasky rebellious Jaine Rilmore, and her Army of the Phoenix.  (2) Everyone's favorite formerly-dwarven-but-now-elven bard was raised by elves in the vicinity of Sylvannus, and was born in the now abandoned halls of _Karak Throll_ (AKA Dwarven Sylvannus).  (3) When you set out from Thanesport, the orginal idea was that you would meet Jaine in Sylvannus.  Clearly, she has some connections there, perhaps most notably one _Darmoc the Smith, _who was to be your contact in the city, before the crap was forcefully propelled toward the proverbial fan.  (4) It's possible that at least one spiritblade is hidden in the area, with potential for at least 1 more, if there is a blade hidden in the wall (although it could be on the other side of the wall, as well...)  Especially the one supposedly hidden with the Bluestar's blood.  See previous reference about broody viscounts...

Just a few reasons I could come up with off the top of my head...Lots of adventuring potential in Sylvannus. 



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Gatherin' a blade.... eh, always a possiblity. And we are now 12th level trying to keep it out of thier hands. Not my personal top choice, but hey we would get to fight and run around so OOC it gets the fun vote.



There are a couple of ways to do this, all of which would be fun.  You could go find one or more that are not yet in the possession of the bad guys (get past enemy lines + dungeon crawl + pursuit, probably), or try to get one that they already have (get past enemy lines + high fantasy espionage + James Bond + court intrigue) or do both--gotta catch 'em all, as they say at Wizards of the Coast...  

All good ideas.  I hope my comments help to clarify things...


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## The_Universe (Jul 7, 2004)

Dangit--I killed the discussion, again!  Somebody, please start it up, again!


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## The_Universe (Jul 7, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> As I recall and understand it, Miagi was going to serve as his protector.  There was never any mention of bringing him to Hyrwl, which, IMO would only endanger him needlessly.  Indeed, along those lines, it may be safer for Ryoko if we don't go to One Oak.  I don't think that thought deters Kaereth's desire to go there, however.



 As a general note, you'll almost certainly be pursued in one form or another no matter where you go from here.  Suffice to say that if you hadn't managed to attract anyone's attention _before _this battle, the combination of the stunt with Syvattagor and the initial foray as the Circle of the Phoenix in the current battle will have brought you to the attentions of all the powers that be.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> As a general note, you'll almost certainly be pursued in one form or another no matter where you go from here.  Suffice to say that if you hadn't managed to attract anyone's attention _before _this battle, the combination of the stunt with Syvattagor and the initial foray as the Circle of the Phoenix in the current battle will have brought you to the attentions of all the powers that be.




 Unless we find a way to fake our own deaths and then adopt alter-egos...

"Hi... my name is... Freedom... the person... not the concept."


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## Xath (Jul 7, 2004)

Hey...I did that once...


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## The_Universe (Jul 7, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Hey...I did that once...



 Well, dying and faking death are not the same thing, sadly.  

But being resurrected in different bodies would no doubt throw the enemy off of your trails...


----------



## Laurel (Jul 7, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Unless we find a way to fake our own deaths and then adopt alter-egos...



This also means the PCs do have to actually live through the current battle  but for those coming back, this is a definate option...


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## The_Universe (Jul 7, 2004)

Any comments on my longer post toward the bottom of page 4?  Anybody?


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## Laurel (Jul 7, 2004)

*I no longer care about spelling.... or grammer for that matter.*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> If information is all you need, there's something to be said for writing letters. While there isn't an equivalent of the USPS in the Falcon Kingdom, there are messengers who can be hired for varying prices, depending on the degree of speed, security, and privacy that you might want. You could, relatively harmlessly, try to get a letter to Kaereth's master, and see what he could tell you. However, you're looking at a couple of weeks between responses with that option...
> 
> Presumably, there might be magical ways to speed the transmission of such messages, but doing so might require further use of those pesky blue mages...maybe even everyone's favorite blue mage--Arthur Cawys, bartender and black marketeer _extraordinaire_! Then again, it may not. You'd have to ask IC, for which we have a different thread...



If we are targets or are being watched sending a note may be worse then us going. If we go then we can help protect him from whatever stupidity.. ah, I mean glorious acts we do next 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> You actually have several Sylvannus connections, should you choose to employ them. (1) Everyone's favorite broody Viscount is potentially the ruler of Sylvannus, as his parents and sister disappeared some months ago, shortly before he was set to hunt down that pasky rebellious Jaine Rilmore, and her Army of the Phoenix. (2) Everyone's favorite formerly-dwarven-but-now-elven bard was raised by elves in the vicinity of Sylvannus, and was born in the now abandoned halls of _Karak Throll_ (AKA Dwarven Sylvannus). (3) When you set out from Thanesport, the orginal idea was that you would meet Jaine in Sylvannus. Clearly, she has some connections there, perhaps most notably one _Darmoc the Smith, _who was to be your contact in the city, before the crap was forcefully propelled toward the proverbial fan. (4) It's possible that at least one spiritblade is hidden in the area, with potential for at least 1 more, if there is a blade hidden in the wall (although it could be on the other side of the wall, as well...) Especially the one supposedly hidden with the Bluestar's blood. See previous reference about broody viscounts...
> 
> Just a few reasons I could come up with off the top of my head...Lots of adventuring potential in Sylvannus...



um.... number one is something Kat knows at least, but Viscount Broody has this thing with secrets  Number two is one that has been brought up, but even when sending out fun letters to elves Xath wasn't one to say 'here let me write to my good friends the elves'.... so who knows what relationship is still there. Not that it is not worth investigating and possibly using.  And hey she is now an elf so fits in even more 
Number 3... HA! Jaine told us he was a contact, but she could not even say he was a supporter of the cause when she told us about him in the sewers.  Though we can hope she or she had up there had started a cause gathering.
Number four yep, but that leads into the spirit blade discussion on its own... or we go for the other zillion reasons and see what happens with this one.


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> There are a couple of ways to do this, all of which would be fun. You could go find one or more that are not yet in the possession of the bad guys (get past enemy lines + dungeon crawl + pursuit, probably), or try to get one that they already have (get past enemy lines + high fantasy espionage + James Bond + court intrigue) or do both--gotta catch 'em all, as they say at Wizards of the Coast...
> All good ideas. I hope my comments help to clarify things...



hmmmm.... I guess they clarify things  Seriously though they do help (especially me who tends to be slow with catching on to stuff)


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## Laurel (Jul 7, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Any comments on my longer post toward the bottom of page 4? Anybody?



Geesh I havn't been on all day and the boards are slow... give us a chance!!!    And I was kinda hoping some else would weigh in and either tell me I was crazy on some of the suggestions or pose better ones


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> hmmmm.... I guess they clarify things  Seriously though they do help (especially me who tends to be slow with catching on to stuff)



Well, you can have all the best intentions in-character, and still end up in an adventure you don't like out-of-character.  I just want to give you guys a fair shot at doing what you think will be the most fun, as players.  None of the things I've seen so far are unreasonable for any survivors to pursue.  It's a game of stories, sure--but it _is _a game.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 7, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Geesh I havn't been on all day and the boards are slow... give us a chance!!!    And I was kinda hoping some else would weigh in and either tell me I was crazy on some of the suggestions or pose better ones



 That was amazing, Kat--good posts, incredible timing.  Good thoughts...lots of seperate reasons to go to Sylvannus, but not a lot of group ones, as of yet. 

I think that there's a lot of ways the campaign can go for the last 1/3 of the game, and it's because there are so many that I am asking you all to think about this stuff, now.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 8, 2004)

As for what we'll be doing in the future...

Justice votes as such:
(1.) A trip to One Oak followed by a trip to the Jade Forest Acad. and the Stone Oracle (switch them around, whatever... just want to visit those two places).

... or ...

(2.) The Isle of Mourning

Sylvanus is all well and good but Justice simply has no connection there and, as such, little desire.  I recognize the fact that this same standard will apply for all of you with the Jade Forest, though... so, it'll be a tough decision for all of us.

Out of character, I want to go to the Isle of Mourning-- kick some butt, get some experience, and throw a wild party.

But, my ideas could be greatly changed by simple persuasion or the indeterminable outcome of the battle.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

*More comments from the DM*

Just as I did for Kat's post, I want to give you all an idea of what each destination/direction would entail in general terms.  This might change if it actually happens, but I think it's fair to give you an idea of what you'd do on a first blush thing.  



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (1.) A trip to One Oak followed by a trip to the Jade Forest Acad. and the Stone Oracle (switch them around, whatever... just want to visit those two places).



 As with most of the adventure ideas from this point, you're going to have to deal with pursuit--not only from the draconids, but also from the King's open servants.  You'll have the resources of the serpentblood and the Kingdom arrayed against you...and after this battle, the king will want to have...words...with the survivors.  

Also, there are really three destinations here, rather than only two, and the order that you'd pursue them might change how things work.  But, if you went to One Oak---->Jade Forest Academy---->Stone Oracle, the general adventure type would entail sneaking (or battling) past enemy lines, deep into enemy territory (One Oak is pretty close to Thanesport, where apparently the surviving members of the King's Army have gathered).  Lots of role (as opposed to roll) playing in One Oak, and perhaps a festival for the return of One Oak's favorite half-son. However, there is a potential for a bit more action here if its discovered that the infamous circle of the phoenix has gathered in a tiny village in the south of Maelwysrin...not the kind of attention that a small village wants, to be certain.  The academy would provide another very interesting role playing opportunity, and perhaps shed some light on Justice's past...but also may be dangerous.  Though not any more beholden to the king than any other school, the academy is no stranger to the ties that bind.  Expect some court intrigue, assassins, betrayal, and perhaps some new allies if you continue here.  If, from here, you can make it to the nearby mountains, up to the old temple grounds, and deep into the bowels of the Prophet's Mountain, you too may speak to the Stone Oracle, and learn what Fate has in store for you.  But, be warned.  The Oracle is legendary for being fickle, and you may not be the only ones wishing for a glimpse at tomorrow....   



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Sylvanus is all well and good but Justice simply has no connection there and, as such, little desire. I recognize the fact that this same standard will apply for all of you with the Jade Forest, though... so, it'll be a tough decision for all of us.
> 
> Out of character, I want to go to the Isle of Mourning-- kick some butt, get some experience, and throw a wild party.
> 
> But, my ideas could be greatly changed by simple persuasion or the indeterminable outcome of the battle.



Should you choose the isle of mourning, expect dangerous treks through strange wilderness, harried by creatures unlike any you've ever seen.  This is a land twisted by millenia of evil, inhabited by _things_ that might once have been servants of the Light.  There will be traps, ancient ruins, and perhaps a forgotten tomb or two.  And, of course, the confrontation with the ancient, horrifying evil that makes men (and women) monsters, and monsters disturbingly like men (and women). Expect pursuit even here, as the enemy also desires the secrets of the island, and the treasures it holds...

Remember, these are just guesses at the moment, subject to change at my whim or whimsy...


----------



## Laurel (Jul 8, 2004)

*maybe not history, but closer then disney*

Okay, so just to add another possibility in here- going to Greenwood.  It is just a few miles away, and depending on where this army goes that was once home for L'Aurel.  Pretty low on the actually occuring list, but like I said after the battle depending on the evil army and any number of other things she would be think' about it.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (1.) A trip to One Oak followed by a trip to the Jade Forest Acad. and the Stone Oracle (switch them around, whatever... just want to visit those two places).



For the Jade Forest Academy and stone oracle.... may need some more of a convincing argument here for the group to go. Though getting another wishy-washy speech may be interesting.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (2.) The Isle of Mourning
> 
> Sylvanus is all well and good but Justice simply has no connection there and, as such, little desire. I recognize the fact that this same standard will apply for all of you with the Jade Forest, though... so, it'll be a tough decision for all of us.



Um.... not like sylvanus has any connection for L'Aurel either, but as conversation continues I see more of a group pull here:: two main PC connections, a large group of high elves we may be able to convert to our cause, other possible recruits, and a possible blade up there, does kinda tip the scales for group adventure.



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> (Out of character, I want to go to the Isle of Mourning-- kick some butt, get some experience, and throw a wild party. But, my ideas could be greatly changed by simple persuasion or the indeterminable outcome of the battle.



Yep, I think we are all holding our right to change depending on what happens... but Kennon wanted all possibilities and I think so far we are giving him a nice wide look at possibilities  As for Isle of Mourning, hey if we live in battle why not- beat the odds once try again  and hey kickin' butt is always fun no argument there


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay, so just to add another possibility in here- going to Greenwood. It is just a few miles away, and depending on where this army goes that was once home for L'Aurel. Pretty low on the actually occuring list, but like I said after the battle depending on the evil army and any number of other things she would be think' about it.



A trip to Greenwood would be very similar to a trip to One Oak, except instead of focusing on Kaereth, it would focus on L'Aurel.  Expect pursuit, with a heavier emphasis on draconids than King's men, since draconids seem to be in higher supply on Prydein at the moment.  

A trip to Greenwood involves running deep into territory that the king still controls, but all overland (potentially a benefit, with the seas crawling with Draconids).

But there are other places of interest on Prydein, as well.  Although the Island of the Mighty holds Greenwood, let us not forget the capitol, Caer Albion, lies only a few hundred miles to the Northwest...



			
				L'Aurel said:
			
		

> For the Jade Forest Academy and stone oracle.... may need some more of a convincing argument here for the group to go. Though getting another wishy-washy speech may be interesting.
> 
> Um.... not like sylvanus has any connection for L'Aurel either, but as conversation continues I see more of a group pull here:: two main PC connections, a large group of high elves we may be able to convert to our cause, other possible recruits, and a possible blade up there, does kinda tip the scales for group adventure.



Do remember that the place you go next doesn't have to be the last place you visit.  You could construct a plan that combines several of these ideas, taking you from place to place, ending in a place of you choosing (rather than mine).  

Sylvannus does have connections for PCs, but so does everywhere else.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

*Other ideas, not yet proposed...*

*What in the Heck is really going on here?*
There's still a lot you don't know about the draconid invasion, and a substantial mystery as to why the King has chosen to help these creatures.  What does he have to gain?  Even truly evil people are rarely so callous to demand destruction of this magnitude for desruction's sake.  What do the spirit blades have to do with all of this?  Why is the sky blue?  Do you know the muffin man?   

This focus could take you anywhere from the ancient libraries of the sundered city of Caer Melyn, or to the mountain stronghold known only as Citadel Refuge, home to a strange order of Monks who claim that _they _were the first disciples of the Light.  It could take you to the portals that brought the draconids here, or to the court of the King, himself--whatever darkness has gathered in the falcon kingdom has gathered around _him._

This would be a real mystery, hunting clues to the far corners of the globe, plumbing the secret depths of the King's mad plan, and perhaps dispatching those who would protect him...

This is slightly different than some of the other ideas presented.  Although I have mentioned parts of this before, they have largely ignored the central mystery.  Rather than grabbing a blade because you know they want one, this adventure would ask *why* they want it before trying to do so.  A good start for this one would be getting all of the prophecies/communes all in one place, and comparing information.

*Hold the Line!*
Liz and Jeremiah have both mentioned this one in person, but neither have posted it here.  

This idea has you continuing to build Jaine's Phoenix Kingdom.  More great armies clashing on the battlefields of Prydein and the ringed continent.  Rather than having you work independently as the Queen gathers her forces, you become (literally) the generals of the Army of the Phoenix, acting as recruiters, and guiding your fledgling kingdom into eventual confrontation with Tain Hawkson on the battlefield.  

This keeps you relatively tied down, save for short trips to recruit nobles (and the like) to your cause, until you actually begin marching your army against the King's draconids and loyalists.  

Of course, this idea is probably only feasible if you win this battle.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> A trip to Greenwood would be very similar to a trip to One Oak, except instead of focusing on Kaereth, it would focus on L'Aurel. Expect pursuit, with a heavier emphasis on draconids than King's men, since draconids seem to be in higher supply on Prydein at the moment.
> 
> A trip to Greenwood involves running deep into territory that the king still controls, but all overland (potentially a benefit, with the seas crawling with Draconids).
> 
> But there are other places of interest on Prydein, as well. Although the Island of the Mighty holds Greenwood, let us not forget the capitol, Caer Albion, lies only a few hundred miles to the Northwest...



Though it is on the same island, as I said unless the army is conintuing onward and she feels we could do something or we are going within a few miles of it for some reason, L'Aurel is not for Greenwood. And One Oak would be a cool focus on Kareth, but it does offer other things as well. So for my listings One Oak is above the Greenwood option.  




			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Do remember that the place you go next doesn't have to be the last place you visit. You could construct a plan that combines several of these ideas, taking you from place to place, ending in a place of you choosing (rather than mine).
> Sylvannus does have connections for PCs, but so does everywhere else.



No denying the many possibilities, never did. And not making a decision on anything, but our next step should do more then just advance one character.... the arguments for Sylvanus still have the most potential for PC role development and for roll battles as a group. I am not ruling anything, or at least not trying to, but I am trying to line up the options.

*Edit:* just saw your last post... reading... reading.... seeing what people say...


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

Yep. All good points.  

Also, when I write things like, 
"_Do remember that the place you go next doesn't have to be the last place you visit. You could construct a plan that combines several of these ideas, taking you from place to place, ending in a place of you choosing (rather than mine). Sylvannus does have connections for PCs, but so does everywhere else_" 
it's almost always just a general comment to the group. I think in some of the comments made people are expecting the next place you go to be the last *big* destination. I suppose it might be, but it certainly doesn't have to be. I just wanted to make sure that you guys all knew that I'm hoping to swing at least a couple more exotic locales as we go...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 8, 2004)

Justice understands that everyone has different goals as to where they want to go-- and, her personal ambitions and desires will be set aside when what is best for the group surfaces-- hopefully, after the battle, things will be clearer and the decision will be easier to make...

That's probably not true... but, here's to wishful thinking!

However, for the sake of roll playing and the killing of monsters everywhere, Liz still wants to go to the Isle.  *murderous grin*


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 8, 2004)

Maybe go to the Isle... get the spiritblade... and then, head to One Oak, The Oracle, Sylvanus... just pick one of those places to attempt to hide/protect it?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 8, 2004)

Oh!

Also... maybe we want to go after the king.  Pull a Jason Bourne in the coming attraction: The Bourne Supremacy and bring the fight to their front door...

We kill his stupid butt and see who is laughing, then! HA!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 8, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Oh!
> 
> Also... maybe we want to go after the king. Pull a Jason Bourne in the coming attraction: The Bourne Supremacy and bring the fight to their front door...
> 
> We kill his stupid butt and see who is laughing, then! HA!



So with all the other info gathering we see if we find out where he is. Then using boots of teleport we poof in front of him while he is sleeping, of course, and surrounding him attack with everything then poof out.... Okay so lots of if's, but's and can't happens but hey it's my little dream so I choose to ignore those things.

Sorry got off track, hey after this little battle is done there is no telling


----------



## Laurel (Jul 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> *What in the Heck is really going on here?*
> There's still a lot you don't know about the draconid invasion, and a substantial mystery as to why the King has chosen to help these creatures. What does he have to gain? Even truly evil people are rarely so callous to demand destruction of this magnitude for desruction's sake. What do the spirit blades have to do with all of this? Why is the sky blue? Do you know the muffin man?.



Um I think I am behind here but with the whole tiamat thing... is the king mordred? did we have any guess/ ideas/thoughts with that stuff?? We did see a statue of Mordred and such.... but that would have some bearing on the answer... oh, yeah and, Who lives on drury lane? 


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> This focus could take you anywhere from the ancient libraries of the sundered city of Caer Melyn, or to the mountain stronghold known only as Citadel Refuge, home to a strange order of Monks who claim that _they _were the first disciples of the Light. It could take you to the portals that brought the draconids here, or to the court of the King, himself--whatever darkness has gathered in the falcon kingdom has gathered around _him_.



Speaking of court, let's go there..preety dresses, lots of soldiers, good bartenders and merchants... back to Thainesport! 
hmmm... Citadel Refuge sounds familiar, oh right... that was the place we were going   If we head there then why not as you said make it a multiple stop trip, with Caer Melyn on the way.  And there could even be one of the blades in Caer Melyn...


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> A good start for this one would be getting all of the prophecies/communes all in one place, and comparing information.



I'll work on it....   hey, it'll shut me up for awhile once I get my notebook 


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> *Hold the Line!  *Liz and Jeremiah have both mentioned this one in person, but neither have posted it here.



Waiting... waiting.... waiting.....


			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Of course, this idea is probably only feasible if you win this battle.



hey, who's doubting


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

*Uh...I think it's the Muffin Man?*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Um I think I am behind here but with the whole tiamat thing... is the king mordred? did we have any guess/ ideas/thoughts with that stuff?? We did see a statue of Mordred and such.... but that would have some bearing on the answer... oh, yeah and, Who lives on drury lane?



 The statue of Mordred the black does not look particularly like the king, nor does the statue of Tiamat look particularly like anyone you have seen thus far...  In fact, bast on the various communes and prophecies, the King's heritage is not actually in question.  But there's obviously a connection in there, somewhere.     



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Speaking of court, let's go there..preety dresses, lots of soldiers, good bartenders and merchants... back to Thainesport!



Not a bad idea.  It'd definitely surprise them.  Nobody expects you to walk blissfully into the Lion's den of your own accord. It might even throw them off of the trail... Liz's Bourne Supremacy comment would necessitate pursuing this plan (at least in part).   



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> hmmm... Citadel Refuge sounds familiar, oh right... that was the place we were going  If we head there then why not as you said make it a multiple stop trip, with Caer Melyn on the way. And there could even be one of the blades in Caer Melyn...



  While this is certainly possible, Caer Melyn and Citadel Refuge are not exactly right down the road from one another.  One is north/northwest, while the other is across the sea to the west/southwest. 

And yes--this (Citadel Refuge) was where you were going, initially.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> hey, who's doubting



 Certainly not I!


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## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So with all the other info gathering we see if we find out where he is. Then using boots of teleport we poof in front of him while he is sleeping, of course, and surrounding him attack with everything then poof out.... Okay so lots of if's, but's and can't happens but hey it's my little dream so I choose to ignore those things.
> 
> Sorry got off track, hey after this little battle is done there is no telling



 You could sure try it...but there are things I might recommend more strongly than immediately trying to tackle the king. Better to start with senior advisors, and work up from there.


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## Laurel (Jul 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> While this is certainly possible, Caer Melyn and Citadel Refuge are not exactly right down the road from one another. One is north/northwest, while the other is across the sea to the west/southwest.
> And yes--this (Citadel Refuge) was where you were going, initially.



Yes but we have to get off the island somehow, and in a boat unless we swim.  So if we go northwest, we go through Caer Melyn, and then we leave from the east side of the island going southwest.... and it is more of a direct line then Oceanus, One Oak, then on to Sylvanus.... but that is neither here not there yet...


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## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

Well, at this point, you might have transcended the need for boats.  Teleporting is entering the realm of possibility for the group, which an severely ease travel restrictions.  However, I'm not sure that anyone has the capability of teleporting the whole group, at least not without the aid of a portal stone...


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## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

Double post!


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## Laurel (Jul 8, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, at this point, you might have transcended the need for boats. Teleporting is entering the realm of possibility for the group, which can severely ease travel restrictions. However, I'm not sure that anyone has the capability of teleporting the whole group, at least not without the aid of a portal stone...



Also depends on who lives or not.... and where we go and with whom.
but if we don't need for anything else and only want one travel per day we can use the boots Xath has.  It would use all three charges though, get group one there, she comes back, then take group two there.  But we could have a series of short trips whatever order we want, yes.
I automatically think non-magic -no boots, no winged creatures, no mages.


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## The_Universe (Jul 8, 2004)

Of course. Best to be cautious.

On another note, the STORY HOUR HAS BEEN UPDATED! WHOOOO!
__________________
"My God! Wooden eels! Surface! Surface!"

"What are you talking about? Moltar! Make a fire with these eels!"

"What? And just leave the eels here? That's insane."

A New Story Hour: _A Kingdom of Ashes_. Check it out!


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## The_Universe (Jul 9, 2004)

Also, 2004 sucks!


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## Laurel (Jul 12, 2004)

*mmmm... NyQuil is my friend....*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> This is slightly different than some of the other ideas presented. Although I have mentioned parts of this before, they have largely ignored the central mystery. Rather than grabbing a blade because you know they want one, this adventure would ask *why* they want it before trying to do so. A good start for this one would be getting all of the prophecies/communes all in one place, and comparing information.



Disreguard what is typed in red in the attachment- broad guesses I have not looked at recently, but has main points/prophesies.etc. 
If we go this route, let me know changes and additions.
Special thanks to Gerti for having most of this on the our site already


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Disreguard what is typed in red in the attachment- broad guesses I have not looked at recently, but has main points/prophesies.etc.
> If we go this route, let me know changes and additions.
> Special thanks to Gerti for having most of this on the our site already



Thanks, Kat! 

A question for everyone: are you sharing any of these with NPCs? If some of them get a chance to see all of them at once, they might be able to comment on the IC thread. 

As for your collective sleuthing, make sure to look not only at the prophecies individually, but also what they have in common--that's where you might pull a few more clues out of it.


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## Laurel (Jul 12, 2004)

*If I could turn back time.....*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> A question for everyone: are you sharing any of these with NPCs? If some of them get a chance to see all of them at once, they might be able to comment on the IC thread.
> As for your collective sleuthing, make sure to look not only at the prophecies individually, but also what they have in common--that's where you might pull a few more clues out of it.



I know some NPC's have been shown at least some of this stuff-- 
I have no idea now if I said it, but L'Aurel would have discussed/shown it to Dorn and Joshua.  Since things may click for them (and they have knowledge of Oberon's bow, and other things)--if it is okay with the rest of the group that is 
Those are really the only NPC's she would hand over all the info. to, but if others want to go to other NPC's go for it of course. Just let us know any info.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 12, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> I know some NPC's have been shown at least some of this stuff--
> I have no idea now if I said it, but L'Aurel would have discussed/shown it to Dorn and Joshua.  Since things may click for them (and they have knowledge of Oberon's bow, and other things)--if it is okay with the rest of the group that is
> Those are really the only NPC's she would hand over all the info. to, but if others want to go to other NPC's go for it of course. Just let us know any info.



 Sounds good.  Whatever happens will have to be after the battle, of course.   

Thanks!  Internet troubles here at work, so discuss among yourselves.


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## Xath (Jul 12, 2004)

Combining all of the prophecies tells us that.....

The KING is a FOOL!!!

King’s folly calls to 
The unquiet dead of                   Prophecy of the Army of the Phoenix
Ages gone, heroes lost

Man’s folly will shadow the world in flame,     Prophecy of the Stone Oracle


So, then it's really his fault that we're here because...

A kingdom of flame, 
A kingdom of ashes, 
Shall be a phoenix birth


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 12, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Thanks, Kat!
> 
> A question for everyone: are you sharing any of these with NPCs? If some of them get a chance to see all of them at once, they might be able to comment on the IC thread.
> 
> As for your collective sleuthing, make sure to look not only at the prophecies individually, but also what they have in common--that's where you might pull a few more clues out of it.



 You know that Preston has seen them all-- I've shown them to all to him.

I would also say that Justice has shown them to Jaine and, I'm assuming that she would have shared them with Randall, as well-- he has a wealth of knowledge about the past and magical business that may provide us with some very useful information.

Has Xath shared her prophecy with everyone?


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 12, 2004)

Well, it might serve you best to (after the battle) show all of them to all of the NPCs, all at once.  As you all have experienced, it's pretty hard to make any sense of them when you only see them one at a time.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 13, 2004)

*something for the 13th... too bad it's not friday...*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, it might serve you best to (after the battle) show all of them to all of the NPCs, all at once. As you all have experienced, it's pretty hard to make any sense of them when you only see them one at a time.



So unless someone wants to exclude anyone particular (like Calwys???sp??) we show them to whoever is left alive and is a major NPC. This will most likely not include every NPC, such as random 15 year-old archer from Oceanus will probably be left out.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 13, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Combining all of the prophecies tells us that.....
> The KING is a FOOL!!!
> King’s folly calls to The unquiet dead of Prophecy of the Army of the Phoenix
> Ages gone, heroes lost Man’s folly will shadow the world in flame, Prophecy of the Stone Oracle
> ...



Good connection!

This is purely guessing, but:
So Tain is King and man, and as both he made a folly. 
He is called the soulbearer in our questions to the heavens.
The king rules alone, but Shadowstone, king's black heart, rules supreme. 
There is also mention of a blood deal in the stone oracle proph. that I think directly relates to all this.

One poss:
King's folly was in making a blood deal.  blood=heart.  The King is soulbearer for Mordred, and they have to get all the blades to release Tiamat who does not have to fear Oberon who was the first to sunder all the blades.  

Other question who/whom/what is Traveller? In stone oracle it is Traveller's children which I figured was us, but then in Truthbearer's we are the ones that could lead to Travellers salvation. Unless we are our own salvation which works.... but.... yeah.... I could also just be reading too much into the wrong parts I know.... but hey tryin' to think of things.....


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 13, 2004)

I'll help with the "Travellers'" references.  

Travellers' are the names for the man-like races of Aeres.  It references the progenitor race, who most believe were most like humans.  Elves, Dwarves, Littlefolk, Orcs, etc. all spring from this common heritage (as do Ogrun, and a few others), and thus they are referred to as the "Travellers' Children" or simply as "the Travellers"


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 13, 2004)

Also Kat--GREAT sleuthing with that last bit.  Some right, some wrong, but definitely not far from the right track!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 13, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I'll help with the "Travellers'" references.
> Travellers' are the names for the man-like races of Aeres. It references the progenitor race, who most believe were most like humans. Elves, Dwarves, Littlefolk, Orcs, etc. all spring from this common heritage (as do Ogrun, and a few others), and thus they are referred to as the "Travellers' Children" or simply as "the Travellers"



Makes sense thanks!
So we can also assume that the children referred to at the end of the stone oracle proph. "Ready, Children, for now is your truest test!" is just a continuation of the Traveller's children bit.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 13, 2004)

*True blood stirs, hidden by betrayal, *

*A single chance for Forest King’s last daughter: *

*Win the throne or face Covenant fulfilled, *

*A* *deal* *in* *blood*, *rising* *with* *Darkness’* *Mistress*. 


This is the blood deal that Kat is referring to. The Covenent/deal in blood are obviously referring to the same thing, whatever that may be.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 14, 2004)

*Testing, Testing*

I've attached a text file to this post, partially as a test for Kat, but also as a gift to the mystery solvers out there.  

Kat and Gertie have both made excellent progress in fathoming certain parts of the prophecy.  The txt file is an msn conversation between Gertie and myself on the subject that is at least partially illuminating.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 14, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I've attached a text file to this post, partially as a test for Kat, but also as a gift to the mystery solvers out there.



test... I hate these....  Got it fine, just had to go through and change stuff so I could understand the flow of conversation better  One question did you leave some spots out or did you hit enter with nothing there?? (about line 125 is one occurrence)

Interesting.... very interesting... and answers more questions that we had huge holes for and asks questions I hadn't thought of (Go Gerti)!!!

I need to read it some more and cut out some stuff (like the french label discussion and Kennon being president of RHA Pres.)


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 14, 2004)

The blank lines are places where there were emoticons in the discussion.


----------



## Xath (Jul 14, 2004)

I've started comparing the prophecies based on theme, and I've been adding other bits of info based on the historical knowledge we have.  So far, I've only done the Spirit Blades, and Mordred the Black.  Next up are Tain Hawkson and The Forest King's Last Daughter.

It looks like we could have several of the last daughters.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 14, 2004)

Good job, Gertie. Thanks for trying to make sense of all of this!


----------



## Archon (Jul 14, 2004)

*"i pooped a hammer"*

so Oberon's last daughter is really, Oberon's last daughter _standing_ when it's all said and done. 
anyway, i've been reading the prophecies and communions and this is my take...
Tain wants power.
Tain makes deal (with who?)
Tain gets to be king.
Tain gets a brand new soul(maybe in place of his existing or maybe confliciting)
Tain names his new soul Mordred
Neo-Tain, or Mordred if you will, sets events into motion to bring about the rise of Tiamat.
Neo-Tain needs Spiritblades to do this.
so, Neo-Tain + Spiritblades = Tiamat wakey wakied.
the Circle of the Phoenix = prophomisified heroes who may or may not triumph over darkness.
anyway, that is what my simple brain has reduced it to. help me out if i missed anything but have pitty on the slow one.
mik aka "the slow one"


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 14, 2004)

Good thoughts, but the evidence would seem to suggest that Tain could have been King without making the deal that he has obviously made with someone or something--he was/is a legitimate heir to the throne, with enough access to muscle within the kingdom that he didn't need to bring in any of *these* baddies to make that a reality. 

However, the deal has apparently accorded him a little more power, and a slightly different mindset, as merely ruling the known world is apparently not enough.  His motivation has got to be something *more* than being King...he had already ruled for seven years before the first draconids reared its ugly head.  Whatever he's doing has to be something *more*....something that will not only motivate the man that was Tain, but also the person/thing he made a deal with, and thus motivate the man he has *become.*

But Mik's analysis certainly doesn't have anything wrong with it.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 15, 2004)

Question.... The Bluestar started out good, but after studying the magic of Mordred in secret that is when he started to turn evil?  I know after the first big war the Bluestar studied pages of someone evil and bad's magic/spells.....


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 15, 2004)

Yes--the Bluestar started out good.  In fact, he was one of the people that helped found the orders now known as the King's Talons, and was instrumental in ensuring that the Falcon Kingdom survived the end of the Sundered Empires, and the rise of Mordred the Black.  He later helped to defeat the Dark Emperor in battle.  

Later, as the Armies of the Falcon tried to reclaim Mordred's Isle, and the spoils of successful war were taken from the mercenary's keep, Aregonn found _something.  _Perhaps a book, a collection of ancient scrolls, or perhaps something so alien to the world that you cannot yet concieve of it, Aregonn found it, and slowly descended into madness, and obsession.

Mordred had created intelligent undead with the aid of old elven magics, magics that the Woodshadow's father and half-brother were whispered to have mastered.  But what Aregonn found was something different.  Something infinitely more powerful, and something infinitely more dangerous for the young wizard's soul. 

As he fell further and further under the spell of the forbidden knowledge he had found, he withdrew from his friends, and asked that he be taken from the roster of the King's Talons.  He held an enormous barony for the King in what was then called Eiryn, and are now the Deathlands.  He retreated to his family's ancestral castle (long occupied by pretenders to the Bluestars' rightful seat), and continued to study and prepare.  

When asked to participate in the steady growth of the kingdom, or even to advise old friends, or the king, he would insist that he had work far more important to accomplish at home.  For now, Eiryn remained a part of the Falcon Kingdom, but it would not be long before that land would be transformed, just as Aregonn himself would be.  

Though married in a public ceremony to Andere, the former guardian of Caer Albion, he remained reclusive, quiet.  Secretly, he began to collect the scattered remnants of Mordred's forces in the bogs and forests of the north.  He sent secret envoys to the now-shamed High Alder, offering them a chance to rise above the curse that the Greyclaw's had given them.  Rather than submit to the simmering anger and hatred of the winners of the last war, they could rule over their oppressors...if only they would help him on his own quest...

Many came, and all that came were borught into the Bluestar's fold.  Sometime during the gathering, the Bluestar was fully changed.  No living heart beat in his chest.  He had not died, but nor did he live.    

Then, the War of the Damned began.  His children, being fostered under the care of nobles who had remembered the Bluestar's herosism were hidden away from him, and grew to hate their father as the rest of the world soon would.  

They took on the name of the Bluestar's only son, rather than honor their dark patriarch with his name.  The house of _Areandor_, son of Aregonn, was born.  To this day, the guard the western wall from the tree-city of Sylvanus, prepared to fight their long-lost progenitor should his power rise, again.  

Yet, despite their noble dedication, it is whispered that some of the line of Areandor bear the mark of their undying father...but that is probably only rumors.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 15, 2004)

How old is Tain... or how long ago did people celebrate his birth?

Anyone else wonder why his name is Tain HAWK-SON instead of Falconson, or Embries like his father.... or is Hawkson a family name I am forgetting??

hmmm... concidering how long a memory elves have it will definately be a great cha check to get them on our side and convince them third times the charm.

PS- I know it may take up a few minutes, but can I bring a cake over for us to devour?  A snack for game time  though not a healthy one :-(


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 15, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> How old is Tain... or how long ago did people celebrate his birth?
> 
> Anyone else wonder why his name is Tain HAWK-SON instead of Falconson, or Embries like his father.... or is Hawkson a family name I am forgetting??
> 
> hmmm... concidering how long a memory elves have it will definately be a great cha check to get them on our side and convince them third times the charm.



 Tain's about 30-35.  I think I have details of his birth either posted on the old thread, or e-mailed out.  Lemme give it a look.   

Hawkson is a name commonly given to "fatherless" children in the kingdom.  He kept it, to show that he overcame his bastard birth to not only be accepted by his father, but to become King, himself.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 15, 2004)

Tain led an expedition of exploration beyond the Placid sea about 15 years ago, returning to the kingdom to be accepted by his dying father, and to begin his bid for the throne.  

So, I'd say he's probably around 40 years old.  He ascended to the throne at age 33.  Let's say his birthday is in a month, in-game. 

I can't find the original e-mail in which I detailed most of this stuff, but this has got to be close.


----------



## Archon (Jul 15, 2004)

*family tree...of death*

hmmm...thanks for a little family history. sooo, if we beat the Bluestar i get alll that family land back eh?
cool.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 15, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Tain led an expedition of exploration beyond the Placid sea about 15 years ago, returning to the kingdom to be accepted by his dying father, and to begin his bid for the throne.
> 
> So, I'd say he's probably around 40 years old.  He ascended to the throne at age 33.  Let's say his birthday is in a month, in-game.
> 
> I can't find the original e-mail in which I detailed most of this stuff, but this has got to be close.



 That's the same expedition Justice's mother went on, correct?


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 15, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> hmmm...thanks for a little family history. sooo, if we beat the Bluestar i get alll that family land back eh?
> cool.



 Yes.

As it stands now, if you accept the potentially legitimate claim that the Bluestar has on the Falcon Throne, you could claim it all (the entire known world), as the only known _living_ claimant.

Heh.  But, Tain would probably object to that.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 15, 2004)

As for the Tain's trip outside the placid sea:  

Yes--it was the same expedition that Justice's mother, John Darkson, and a few other NPCs went on.


----------



## Archon (Jul 15, 2004)

*No    King*

Archon is more comfortable leaving politics to the politicians.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 16, 2004)

*Yeah another night without a PPK or a TPK *

So Master Ryoko used to be the Dragon Emporer then he was outstest finally reaching One Oak, New evil dragon emporer took over -do we have any idea of when?

Could new Emporer have been Tain or Mordred or is it someone completly off the radar as of yet??  Tain not sure about getting throne here.

Tain, Katie Preston, John Darkson, & others went out the west gate toward the Dragon empire- when = 15 years ago, but why did they go-- just for the fun of it, old king ordered it???

Tain & Darkson we know came back, Tain took over thrown ligetimately- plan or conviently?  Why old king take Tain as ligitmate son for throne?


----------



## Laurel (Jul 16, 2004)

*standing at least 100 feet away::*

Um... Archy,

 I'm sure Jaine would give you the North Lands as a little 'thank you' if you want them once we win -for saving her life, helping her to the throne, etc., etc. --Cause everyone knows we will WIN!!!!

Then it could be the descended of the bluestar that cleans it up and purifies the land after decades of evil has been saturating it.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 16, 2004)

What we learned last night:

Arhconus still has trouble with the martyr thing
Xath is actually good in combat if we let her have a chance
Kareth is now the primo dragon slayer --Kick butt.... um or punch, and I didn't necessaraily mean literally--


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> So Master Ryoko used to be the Dragon Emporer then he was outstest finally reaching One Oak, New evil dragon emporer took over -do we have any idea of when?



Master Ryoko appeared in One Oak seven years ago.  Lord Miagi's Dragon Emperor disappeared from his homeland seven year ago, during a war with strange invaders.  The answer--seven years ago--at approximately the same time that Tain ascended to the throne.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Could new Emporer have been Tain or Mordred or is it someone completly off the radar as of yet?? Tain not sure about getting throne here.



Well, because Tain was ascending to the Falcon throne seven years ago, he can't have been the new evil Dragon Emperor.  Mordred, assuming that he somehow lives, is a possibility.  Additionally, it is possible that the Western Dragon emperor is someone completely different, someone totally off the radar.  

However, a point to remember--Justice pulled her current longsword off of one of the nearly-elven or nearly-human draconids that have been serving as spies.  It is single bladed, and shaped very much like Lord Miagi's bastard sword, which he calls a "Katana."  It's hilt is even in the shape of a roaring dragon.  As such, there must be some contact between the draconids and the western empire that Lord Miagi once served, and that Master Ryoko once ruled.     



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Tain, Katie Preston, John Darkson, & others went out the west gate toward the Dragon empire- when = 15 years ago, but why did they go-- just for the fun of it, old king ordered it???



Although it is not clear if the king ordered the grand expedition beyond the westgate, he certainly approved of it.  The exploration fleet left with much fanfare--the navy was being turned to tasks of peace.  The deathward was quiet, and piracy had been essentially exterminated from the kingdom.    

The Islands of Entropus and Duras were discovered on this expedition, and so the crewmen and -women of the expedition were lauded as Heros, Tain Hawkson (then still unrecognized by the king) and John Darkson were lauded most of all.



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Tain & Darkson we know came back, Tain took over thrown ligetimately- plan or conviently? Why old king take Tain as ligitmate son for throne?



One of the reasons that the old king saw fit to legitimize Tain was undoubtedly because he had no other heirs.  It was Tain, or leave the succession entirely to the Noble's Council.  Second, his wife had died, and thus the main reason for refusing to legitimize a bastard son was safely gone.  He could recongize his infedility without creating a scandal against a living queen.  

Tain undoubtedly planned to take the throne--most claimants do.  Jaine's father, and then Jaine herself also planned to take the throne when the old king died.  

Hope that helps.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> What we learned last night:
> 
> Arhconus still has trouble with the martyr thing
> Xath is actually good in combat if we let her have a chance
> Kareth is now the primo dragon slayer --Kick butt.... um or punch, and I didn't necessaraily mean literally--



 Actually, Kaereth was primarily dealing death from the butt region.  Literally would be accurate.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Um... Archy,
> 
> I'm sure Jaine would give you the North Lands as a little 'thank you' if you want them once we win -for saving her life, helping her to the throne, etc., etc. --Cause everyone knows we will WIN!!!!
> 
> Then it could be the descended of the bluestar that cleans it up and purifies the land after decades of evil has been saturating it.



 Hell, she'll let you have them now.  You just have to get rid of Grampa!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 16, 2004)

*you can tell a lot by the rings of a tree*

How old is everyone, about at least:
Archonus - 26
Arfin - 130
Justice - 18
Kareth - 23
L'aurel - 31
Xath - 45


----------



## Xath (Jul 16, 2004)

Xath is in timeline, 45 years old.  Her body, is 110 years old.  Which i think, if you mathmatize it all out by the book means that Xath has the mental maturity of a 16-17 year old human, in the body of a 15 year old (110 is the age of elven physical maturity)


----------



## AIM-54 (Jul 16, 2004)

Kaereth is 23.  

Not much more to be said than that...


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 16, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> How old is everyone, about at least:
> _Archonus - 20-30? Older?_
> _Arfin - Older dwarf?_
> Justice - 20 -looks 20
> ...



 I think Justice is only 18, actually.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 16, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath is in timeline, 45 years old.  Her body, is 110 years old.  Which i think, if you mathmatize it all out by the book means that Xath has the mental maturity of a 16-17 year old human, in the body of a 15 year old (110 is the age of elven physical maturity)



 Xath is completely physically mature.  Both she and Justice look like medieval, armored supermodels.


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## Archon (Jul 16, 2004)

*7 years*

Archonus graduated from the Talons at the age of 19 and it's been 7 years since then.
as far as still having a martyr complex, it's a little more difficult then that now. if we live through this it might get explained. 
mik


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## Xath (Jul 18, 2004)

Ok, The Song of the Sea gives fast healing to all allies equal to the World Singer's Charisma bonus.  Right now, Xath's charisma is a 27, which means her bonus is a +8.  

I also started this thread to rate a new feat.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94770


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 18, 2004)

Yep-- Justice is a mere 18... 

However, she is probably about to turn 19.


----------



## Archon (Jul 18, 2004)

*power, up!*

fast healing/8.......awesome.


----------



## El_Dudereno (Jul 18, 2004)

hey guys, how is the battle going? still dealing death? or did we lose the second hour? or haven't u guys played in awhile...btw, this is Keaton, kennon's little bro, I just like to stay up 2 date in games i play in...so, hope you guys are still doing ok...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 19, 2004)

Well-- we're still in the first hour... and still losing.

At current, we are surrounded by 10 very large, very powerful reptiles-- few of us having any more than 50 hit points remaining...

Whether or not we live through the next portion of battle (saturday) will depend almost entirely on the initiative roll.  *EEP!!!*


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## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Whether or not we live through the next portion of battle (saturday) will depend almost entirely on the initiative roll. *EEP!!!*



And that's assuming that I let you make another initiative roll...  

Anyway, the battle has certainly been cinematic thus far.  Let's hope we can keep everyone alive.  But Liz is right--keeping *any* of you alive will be far from easy!


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Ok, The Song of the Sea gives fast healing to all allies equal to the World Singer's Charisma bonus. Right now, Xath's charisma is a 27, which means her bonus is a +8.
> 
> I also started this thread to rate a new feat.
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94770



That is insane. We might have to kick that down a notch--maybe half of the Worldsinger's charisma bonus, rounding up? It's rare to see anything that breaks even fast healing/5...but I'll think about it.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 19, 2004)

El_Dudereno said:
			
		

> hey guys, how is the battle going? still dealing death? or did we lose the second hour? or haven't u guys played in awhile...btw, this is Keaton, kennon's little bro, I just like to stay up 2 date in games i play in...so, hope you guys are still doing ok...



Battles going better then I thought   and your dwarf guy hopefully ran off to find out when they will be getting there to help out, but L'Aurel's missin' the other ranged attacker.  
As Liz said though we are still up, though some just barely.  And the second hour doesn't look too good currently.
At leat no one can say our characters run from a fight


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> At leat no one can say our characters run from a fight



 You're right--no one could possibly say *that!*


----------



## Laurel (Jul 19, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> And that's assuming that I let you make another initiative roll...



hmmm.... yes them having the partial and then getting to go first was fun- we killed the ones right in front of us then the next group got to run into place on thier partial then hit, hit, hit as actual turn and then we got to go.... but it is the DM's ruling  
Do we want to start setting up a time for this Saturday's game via e-mail?  Sorry, already trying to set up appointments, and since greg and I have been the issue recently I want to give you guys first priority this weekend.


----------



## Xath (Jul 19, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> That is insane. We might have to kick that down a notch--maybe half of the Worldsinger's charisma bonus, rounding up? It's rare to see anything that breaks even fast healing/5...but I'll think about it.




Well, normally it would only be a +6.  We're just Eagle's Splendored right now.

But if we don't reroll initiative, this is most likely just a philosophical debate.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> hmmm.... yes them having the partial and then getting to go first was fun- we killed the ones right in front of us then the next group got to run into place on thier partial then hit, hit, hit as actual turn and then we got to go.... but it is the DM's ruling
> Do we want to start setting up a time for this Saturday's game via e-mail?  Sorry, already trying to set up appointments, and since greg and I have been the issue recently I want to give you guys first priority this weekend.



 I can send out a scheduling e-mail later, today.  

As for other administrative issues, rather than rolling for the battle at large every hour, we're going to start rolling every half-hour in game.  As a result, the next army calculation will happen at the beginning of next session.  

And, as for initiative--I realize that having the Reptus go 2x in a row sucks, but thems the breaks.  If we were beginning a new combat, there'd be no question about initiative--you'd roll.  But, because we stopped in media res, I'm a little hesitant to give you a free re-roll.  I'll think about it, but it's not like it's unfair to let you keep your initiatives--it was no less important at the beginning of the battle then it is, now.  

I'm not going to go out of my way to make sure a character dies in this fight, but nor do I want to minimize the risk, especially after it was strenuously suggested that you pause a bit between this combat and the last when we were playing last thursday.  

Lastly on the subject of the current combat, the extra action is not a result of the nat. 20 on initiative, it is a special ability of the monster that they could (and would) employ, regardless of when they happened to come in the initiative order.   On the upside, I haven't been letting them roll hero points.  Consider yourselves lucky, about that.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Well, normally it would only be a +6. We're just Eagle's Splendored right now.
> 
> But if we don't reroll initiative, this is most likely just a philosophical debate.



Well, that does make it slightly more acceptable. However, if you think about what fast healing does, even fast healing/1 makes you effectively *unkillable* unless you are immediately reduced to negative CON. 

Coup de Grace's are almost impossible with fast healing, as you'd automatically stabilize one round, and be awake the next--barring single combat, you can't even be coup de grace'd, because you're not helpless for long enough...

Bear that in mind, but as with initiative, I'll think about it.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 19, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Lastly on the subject of the current combat, the extra action is not a result of the nat. 20 on initiative, it is a special ability of the monster that they could (and would) employ, regardless of when they happened to come in the initiative order.  On the upside, I haven't been letting them roll hero points. Consider yourselves lucky, about that.



I think we all get this, and it was stated multiple times on Thursday.  All I knew to call it though is an extra partial.  And I was just stating what it looked like.  We kill the ones in front then they move in and attack.  I know that they get the extra partial as a creature thing, just with them going first they got to move and attack before anyone could react in any manner.  This just adds to their super speed which I assume is how they get the extra partial/action in the first place. 
It was just a statment of what was happening- not a complaint or an 'it's not fair' comment.  
I shall start calling it an extra action instead of partial if that is what it is.

I had assumed that we were staying in the same order, then someone brought it up and your response sounded like you were thinking of letting us re-roll.  Only reason I said anything, and I did add in that it was up to you no matter what anyways.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

Sorry if I came off upset, or annoyed.  As we all have lamented from time to time, text is a poor medium for transferring vocal tone, unless one is writing prose.  

Your post was fine, and you shouldn't feel like you have to apologize for calling an extra action an extra partial action, as even I call them that, sometimes.  

It may be that my stream-of-consciousness is simply more acerbic than I generally intend. 

So, in short, I am sorry--I didn't percieve a complaint, and there's certainly nothing wrong with restating an issue for easier understanding.  

I hope that came off better than the post in question did.


----------



## AIM-54 (Jul 19, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, that does make it slightly more acceptable.  However, if you think about what fast healing does, even fast healing/1 makes you effectively *unkillable* unless you are immediately reduced to negative CON.
> 
> Coup De Gras are almost impossible with fast healing, as you'd automatically stabilize one round, and be awake the next--barring single combat, you can't even be coup de grased, because you're not helpless for long enough...
> 
> Bear that in mind, but as with initiative, I'll think about it.




Coup de Grace, Coup de Grace!    

That said, I will be very disappointed if we have another round of DM mercy.  We all knew what we were going into with this and what the consequences would be.  We all knew it and we all accepted it.  It's about time we stopped pussyfooting around the consequences of our actions and allowed things to take their course, for better or for worse.  (I should note that this isn't a broad criticism of every aspect of the game, but primarily a problem I've had with various combat scenarios).  While the desire to keep PCs alive is certainly commendable, we are no longer useless 1st level characters in need of very small challenges and lots of healing.  Like I said, we all knew what we were getting into and must accept the inherent consequences.  Otherwise we're not playing a game or role-playing, we're just following a script.  Sometimes characters die and it's not heroic or noble, it's unfortunate or tragic or senseless.  That to me is far more interesting than constant DM intervention until a "cinematically appropriate" occasion for death comes up.  Last I checked we're not making a movie, we're playing a game.

Finally, because this text stuff is a really poor medium of communication:  I am not terribly upset, nor unhappy with the game.  There are things that have annoyed me on occasion, but it appears I'm the minority there and that's fine.  Nevertheless, it is cathartic to vent this every now and again.


----------



## Xath (Jul 19, 2004)

Yeah, and sometimes PC's get killed by toddler ghouls.

So if Xath dies this time, we shall have to weigh the question...

Which is more embarrasing?  Death by toddler ghoul? or Death by Christmas Reptus?


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

It was an adult, thank you very much! 

And *&%*#%*#, they AREN'T Christmas Reptus!


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## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Coup de Grace, Coup de Grace!



D'OH!  Why doesn't spell check cover obscure french phrases!


----------



## AIM-54 (Jul 19, 2004)

Because spell check hates you.  Hates you I say!

Or...it's a cover up by big business Microsoft, which is controlled by the Morgans and Rothschilds who don't want to give any clues of their European connections by making spellcheck work well when confronted with European phrases.  Covering their tracks, you know...


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Because spell check hates you.  Hates you I say!
> 
> Or...it's a cover up by big business Microsoft, which is controlled by the Morgans and Rothschilds who don't want to give any clues of their European connections by making spellcheck work well when confronted with European phrases.  Covering their tracks, you know...



 Didn't I read this in a book, somewhere...?

(and, if you check above, I did some independent research using the FoIA, and managed to dig up the correct spelling, as well as the secret alien technology that NASA used to fake the moon landing, and instead land on Mars to make a secret pact with antarctic neo-nazis)


----------



## Archon (Jul 19, 2004)

*to the point.*

at least one PC will die on saturday. and i'll be damned if anyone dies before the martyr. so i say we make like a tree and get the hell outa here and let the martyr do what he was made for. this way at least one of us can have a good death. 
because if we all stay, we'll all die. 
Gertie said that Xath could get everyone out but one. so, assuming we can survive the X-mas Reptas' action at the top of the round, i want everyone to strategically retreat back to reinforcements. 
and hey, Archon has an 80% chance of comming back as a revenant.  
and this gives him a good excuse to cop out on the whole "king" thing.
mik aka "Optimist Prime"


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 19, 2004)

*Now that's just silly!*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> at least one PC will die on saturday. and i'll be damned if anyone dies before the martyr. so i say we make like a tree and get the hell outa here and let the martyr do what he was made for. this way at least one of us can have a good death.
> because if we all stay, we'll all die.
> Gertie said that Xath could get everyone out but one. so, assuming we can survive the X-mas Reptas' action at the top of the round, i want everyone to strategically retreat back to reinforcements.
> and hey, Archon has an 80% chance of comming back as a revenant.
> ...



If you're going to retreat, why don't you *all* retreat, pull Cawys up to put up a quick wall of stone, and delay the Reptus that way. Sure, it puts your peons back into the game of getting slaughtered by vastly more powerful foes, but it's not likely that Archon's going to kill one all by himself, even if he stays. So, sacrifice a PC if it'll have a meaningful effect, but there's no point in Archon going out just because he *can.*  

Revenants, btw, are not playable character races.


----------



## Archon (Jul 20, 2004)

*i don't want to die...but*

what i'm saying is that Archon probably won't even make it to his turn in the order before he either gets stabbed or takes a stabbing for someone else.
BUT, if we all live through the next round, i want Xath to teleport everyone out and since she has to leave somebody behind i want it to be Archon. he can tumble very well, plus i can hide from them if i can get to some cover er something.
if Archon doesn't live through the round the choices become very simple. everyone teleports out. 
there are plenty of npcs i can run during the battle, so i know i won't be out of the game when Archon dies. we all knew this battle was going to be tough and that someone might die. and seeing as how Archon has the unique gift of suffering so that others may live AND his state of well-being is currently low, he has a high chance of not making it. 
it's ok. this is what he was made for. while this might not be our "darkest hour" it certainly is dark. 
i'm not trying to get Archon killed. but it looks to be very likely. and i'd rather us plan on it happening then us be surprised by it. 
it's a game, it's a story, it's fun. and if Archon dies here it will be no less fun for me.
so, if we all live, awesome. but we do need to run away. we can't win here. 
we did a lot of damage, it just wasn't enough.
this is a battle to remember win or lose.
mik
"i do not want to die, but i will not watch you fall before me.....*again*." 
- Archonus to Xath at the Battle for Hyrwl


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 20, 2004)

Just one question:  

Why teleport out, when you can just retreat?  Order the men back into the breech, and let them try to hold off the Reptus, for a bit.  Better yet, Cawys is only a few hundred yards away...

(Stuff to think about, anyway)


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 20, 2004)

Running is just as effective as teleporting...

Justice should be fine for the next round of combat- I've got just over 50 hit points and, unless I manage to critically fail, I'll be taking out the one Jolly Lizard that is on me.

After that comes the healing.

Also, I second Jeremiah's notion-- DM mercy is great and all... but, we brought this on ourselves... if we die, so be it.


----------



## Xath (Jul 20, 2004)

Well, we can try to pop to Cawys to have him build a wall.  

We also have a wand of Hold Person.  It takes 2 of them to block the wall, how likely are they to  beat a DC20 will save?  If they're not likely to, that's up to 11 rounds of held Reptus.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 20, 2004)

As with most fighter types, Fort. and Ref. are higher than Will.  However, how *much* higher is not certain, as I don't have the Fiend Folio with me here at work.  Good idea.  Other than the fact that you have to stop singing to do it, this might be a good way to start when the combat continues.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 20, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> so i say we make like a tree



L'Aurel can literally be a tree for a few hours so she gets the job.... okay a sad attempt at humor :-(

Why not stay and fight.  I don't have the board/table in front of me obviously, but Xath can take off running and yelling/shouting to get Caweys (Arhconus pushes her back and tells her to go, while knowing him he starts to take pain for someone else).  More may more into position, but I don't think there are any focused on Arhconus/Xath at the moment.  Justice has two in close proximity, I thought, but one is seriously damaged.  Arfin and Kareth are the two most in danger.  Right at the wall surrounded and seperated from us, and the two who if we retreat may not make it anyways-- all those AoO.  
If Xath has Caweys put up a wall there is nothing any of can do about it except change the fight to another area, but L'aurel is still almost at full for HP so she's not running anywhere anytime soon.

On teleport- We are not close enough to reach each other.  Xath could use it to get to caweys grabbing Arhconus who is both within reach and looks to be on his last pint of blood.

On the wand, good option, it would slow them down more effectivly then the thorns are.  But what is the distance?  With haste can Xath run start screaming/yelling whatever for Cawyes and try to use the wand?  If someone/thing is standing where the wall goes up, do they get a save?  are they thrown? are they encased in the wall?  Just some questions I know will come up if this happens 

In game it is really just up to Xath and what she does- but no pressure there.


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## Laurel (Jul 20, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It was an adult, thank you very much!



That's right the toddler was too busy eating the insides of his mom on the ground.


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## The_Universe (Jul 20, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> That's right the toddler was too busy eating the insides of his mom on the ground.



 I believe that's what was happening, yes.  

Good post, above--not a bad idea to be thinking about tactics.


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## The_Universe (Jul 20, 2004)

What are our thoughts about trying to play on Wed. night, as well?  Is this a possibility?  Or does it fly in the face of all that you believe in?  

Let me know!


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## Xath (Jul 20, 2004)

Well, the only problem with Xath going anywhere is that you would all immediately lose the benefits of haste, and in 5 rounds you would lose the benefit of the song.

However, if Cawys is within 210ft, Xath could always "message" him.


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## The_Universe (Jul 20, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Well, the only problem with Xath going anywhere is that you would all immediately lose the benefits of haste, and in 5 rounds you would lose the benefit of the song.
> 
> However, if Cawys is within 210ft, Xath could always "message" him.



Hmmm. For the sake of planning, I'll say that he's within 210 ft.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 21, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Well, the only problem with Xath going anywhere is that you would all immediately lose the benefits of haste, and in 5 rounds you would lose the benefit of the song.
> 
> However, if Cawys is within 210ft, Xath could always "message" him.



 The song and haste are beneficial... but, certainly not a necessity for me to keep going.  Even without haste and the song, I'm at a +19/+17 to attack..

I agree that Xath plays an important supportive part...  But, if Xath wants to run for help,  I think she can safely do it without dooming everyone.


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## Laurel (Jul 21, 2004)

*I don't remember the order right now, but if I go first*

I shoot Xath!  Heehee, while everyone is otherwise occupied I can finally enact my revenge!


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## Xath (Jul 21, 2004)

Dude, I beat you all with initiative.  It goes the bad guys, then me.

So too bad L'Aurel.  Maybe next insane combat.


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## Laurel (Jul 21, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Dude, I beat you all with initiative. It goes the bad guys, then me.
> So too bad L'Aurel. Maybe next insane combat.



 Sadly then she shall have to continue her careful planning, patiently waiting for the perfect moment to strike --Right cause miss confused and likes everyone is really gonna stab someone in the back. Oh, wait she already did... or was it his throat?? 

Anyways, Yeah for tonight and hopefully the non-TPK but Xath kicking buttocks in melee


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## Xath (Jul 21, 2004)

See, if you're going to betray the party and you don't manage to pull it off in one shot, just feign stupidity and call it an "accident."  Like an "accidental" fireball.


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## The_Universe (Jul 21, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> See, if you're going to betray the party and you don't manage to pull it off in one shot, just feign stupidity and call it an "accident." Like an "accidental" fireball.



I don't think I can describe how humorous I find this....


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## Xath (Jul 22, 2004)

Well, we need to get to the portalstone.  Since as far as we know, there aren't any major spellcasters in the Draconic army, I think Xath would be the best choice to get there undetected.  Anyone can use the boots of teleport, and Xath has the ability to fly invisibly over the army.  Then it's just a few miles to the portal stone.


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## Archon (Jul 22, 2004)

*now what...*

we have to go to Caer Melyn and the fastest way to do that is to teleport.
some of us were talking about it, and we calculated that we could take the Circle - 1 if we waited four hours to rest. BUT, if we could get to the portal stones behind enemy lines, then we could all teleport.
Xath has three teleports a day. so after she rests she could take everybody except one to the portal stones. 
since Archon can go a little longer without rest and he's very sneaky, he can sneak past the enemy and meet everyone there in four hours.
mik


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## Laurel (Jul 22, 2004)

hehehe.... yeah for the one minute delay posting...

On a sad note (and funny- in the sad way) L'aurel's last act was to spit in the eye of a white dragon and blind it......   or  ? Not sure.....


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

With the airborne forces of the draconids (notably, wyverns), nowhere to be found, this seems safe, for the moment.  You can try to teleport to the portal stone, and then just wait for Xath to show up a few minutes later.


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> hehehe.... yeah for the one minute delay posting...
> 
> On a sad note (and funny- in the sad way) L'aurel's last act was to spit in the eye of a white dragon and blind it......   or  ? Not sure.....



 Maybe, for the sake of dignity, we can change the description of that spell...?  We'll say that an orb acid appeared in her hands, and she hurled it at the creature's face, rather than hocking a giant blinding lugi.


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## Laurel (Jul 22, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> since Archon can go a little longer without rest and he's very sneaky, he can sneak past the enemy and meet everyone there in four hours.



My PC is currently dead, but I still want to say-- one of the circle just died. I don't think anyone is going to be willing to risk another death by having someone go off alone- especially to wade through the enemy army.  
Not as sucidial: could be using that big bird with (one) or two people to try and fly up and over or around the army, meeting the rest of the circle at the stones in a few hours.  There is also those pesky companions L'Aurel has- little regular eagle hanging out that can be used as a messenger once who gets to portal stones okay.

But just a thought.


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## Laurel (Jul 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> With the airborne forces of the draconids (notably, wyverns), nowhere to be found, this seems safe, for the moment. You can try to teleport to the portal stone, and then just wait for Xath to show up a few minutes later.



This could work also, and I think this is one ya'll would come up... mine looking back at it does look a little L'Aurely.

If you do the option above can someone (a-hem, like the ranger) think to thank the bird for his help and tell him where you are going.... but who knows if he understands anything anyways.... but it may be nice.....  make him feel proud and a little happier.


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

On another note--I have calculated experience!  

Assuming I haven't already given you experience for the first 15 reptus, the total "breech" fight was worth 9600 XP/character.  

Additionally, Vyrinjor, the White Dragon, was worth either 4360 or 3650 XP per person, depending on whether L'Aurel gets XP for the fight, or not.  I'm inclined to give it to her, so assume the lesser amount unless I tell you otherwise.  

If you all do choose to rest for a few hours, I'll let you use the XP you've recieved thus far to level.  However, there are limits.

Xath and Arfin can't respend the XP they already spent to level from 11 to 12.  So, they still might be a little bit behind.  

However, XP awards can only grant you one level at a time.  As such, if you should happen to have enough XP to easily surpass level 13 and *technically* be able to reach level 14, you must place yourself 1 XP shy of that level.  In short, one XP expenditure can't give you 2 levels at once.  

Happy leveling!


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## AIM-54 (Jul 22, 2004)

So we're just abandoning the fight and hoping these guys can pull it out?

I can just imagine the boost to morale when the grunts see their great heroes teleport off inexplicably (maybe some know that one has fallen, but that's no guarantee and anyway, their surrounded by the bodies of their friends, family and fellow townsfolk) leaving them to try and win it by themselves.  The tide has probably turned, yes, but I don't think we've hit the mop up stage yet, at which point I don't think there'd be a problem with us leaving.

If we take the four hour period for people to level up, at the end of that we should be all set in terms of the outcome of the battle or we can be called upon if things start to shift again.

Kaereth, however, will continue fighting until we hit the mop up point.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 22, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Well, we need to get to the portalstone.  Since as far as we know, there aren't any major spellcasters in the Draconic army, I think Xath would be the best choice to get there undetected.  Anyone can use the boots of teleport, and Xath has the ability to fly invisibly over the army.  Then it's just a few miles to the portal stone.



 If you wanted to Haste Justice-- she and Thane could probably out fly anything that the army has to offer... (they share spells) this could get Justice and L'Aurel to the portal stone quickly and without attempting to sneak L'Aurel's body through the evil draconic hordes... and, free up everyone else to get to the stone using the boots.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 22, 2004)

Anyone remember the experience from the first fight in the battle (all the undead)?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> So we're just abandoning the fight and hoping these guys can pull it out?
> 
> I can just imagine the boost to morale when the grunts see their great heroes teleport off inexplicably (maybe some know that one has fallen, but that's no guarantee and anyway, their surrounded by the bodies of their friends, family and fellow townsfolk) leaving them to try and win it by themselves.  The tide has probably turned, yes, but I don't think we've hit the mop up stage yet, at which point I don't think there'd be a problem with us leaving.
> 
> ...




I think we should take the 4 hours to rest and the like-- but, after that, we should continue to fight the battle until it's DONE.

The circle is first... but, we can't just leave in the middle of battle...

We can fight until the end and still have L'Aurel ressurected... and, I think that's what we should do.

What do you guys think?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 22, 2004)

This is just such a stickey situation... Justice wants to fulfill L'Aurel's wishes... but, at the same time, she does not like ressurection/reincarnation magic...

Ahh... role playing can be tough.


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

I don't think I was clear before--you only get to level after you rest.  Just wanted to get that out there.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Additionally, Vyrinjor, the White Dragon, was worth either 4360 or 3650 XP per person, depending on whether L'Aurel gets XP for the fight, or not. I'm inclined to give it to her, so assume the lesser amount unless I tell you otherwise.



um... she did help distract it, and did get a few rounds off..... then she died, so it's not like she was out the whole time, just most of it.


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## AIM-54 (Jul 22, 2004)

Kaereth will not be taking four hours rest, he will be fighting with the grunts until victory is clearly in hand, with the full understanding that he can't level until he gets rest.

But he's not as badly off as some.


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I can just imagine the boost to morale when the grunts see their great heroes teleport off inexplicably (maybe some know that one has fallen, but that's no guarantee and anyway, their surrounded by the bodies of their friends, family and fellow townsfolk) leaving them to try and win it by themselves. The tide has probably turned, yes, but I don't think we've hit the mop up stage yet, at which point I don't think there'd be a problem with us leaving.



There's enough happening that, beyond the amazing death of the Dragon-General Vyrinjor, the majority of the troops probably have no idea where you are or what you're doing. So, it's not like you'll be inexplicably disappearing. Instead, you'll be withdrawing to help a downed friend, something that's happening all along the battlefield...



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> If we take the four hour period for people to level up, at the end of that we should be all set in terms of the outcome of the battle or we can be called upon if things start to shift again.



On the other hand, this is perfectly acceptable. As it turns out, as I look at the remainder of the battle, four hours later is a great time to be waking up/un-meditating. 



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Kaereth, however, will continue fighting until we hit the mop up point.



Of course, that is your prerogative.


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## AIM-54 (Jul 22, 2004)

Also XP for the undead was 12350 for those that don't have it.


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## Laurel (Jul 22, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I don't think I was clear before--you only get to level after you rest. Just wanted to get that out there.



So can I be leveling L'Aurel just in case and creating a new character just in case on Sat, while the fight continues   Each person minus me makes the choice and I for once am staying out of the choice part, since really a limp body has no choice


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I think we should take the 4 hours to rest and the like-- but, after that, we should continue to fight the battle until it's DONE.



To what end?  You are bruised, battered, beaten, and have stood on death's doorstep, hollering to be let in no less than twice in the past hour.  Although you can rejoin the troops on the wall after your rest, you have done more than your parts, here.  There's very little more you can do, other than stand with them, and be an extra body on the wall.  



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The circle is first... but, we can't just leave in the middle of battle...
> 
> We can fight until the end and still have L'Aurel ressurected... and, I think that's what we should do.



You actually don't know if L'Aurel can be resurrected if you wait too long.  Resurrection magic is so uncommon that it is an utter mystery--assume nothing.  

Besides, character deaths should be a big deal, as should any potential resurrections.  Just as I would not wish to rob L'Aurel of the spectacle of her death, I will not rob her of the same in her return to life.  Life cannot be bought for a few thousand gold pieces, nor can it be simply returned with a wave of the hand.  The only man who's done it in recent memory was insane, driven mad by dark powers of unimaginable origin.  The time before, it took the intervention of a Demigod.  

Bear that in mind.


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> um... she did help distract it, and did get a few rounds off..... then she died, so it's not like she was out the whole time, just most of it.



 Exactly.  That's why I'm inclined to let her have the XP.


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

Yes--you can level her to 13.  But, because of the negative level that almost all resurrections give the character involved, you'll be stuck at the beginning of 13 while nearly everyone else is at the cusp of 14.  :\  Sorry!


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Also XP for the undead was 12350 for those that don't have it.



 Thanks, man!


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## Xath (Jul 22, 2004)

If the group doesn't want to leave the city before the battle is over, Xath can always take L'Aurel herself to Caer Maelyn.  The ressurection is going to take some serious negotiating, something at which Xath excels, but which I know the others in the party are not too keen on.  Limiting the number of party members traveling to Caer Maelyn eliminates the need to sneak off to the portal stone. However, leveling also eliminates the need to sneak off to the portal stone.

Characterwise, I'm a little iffy about the party leaving the city during the battle, but I also know that L'Aurel needs us, and were I she, I'd want to be in that waiting room for as little time as necessary.  L'Aurel has always been there for Xath, and now is one time Xath can be there for her.  So Xath will be going to Caer Maelyn in four hours.  And she'd go sooner if she could.


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## Archon (Jul 22, 2004)

*below a calm surface*

how does Archonus deal with grief? 
the answer is simple. alone.
Archon wants nothing more the L'Aurel's return to life. but going to Caer Melyn would leave him with too much time to think and hurt, and right now all he wants to do is fight. fighting the draconids will help him fight with all the emotions he's feeling right now. 
so, expect Archon to head to the wall to fight as just another grunt. killing as many of the enemy as possible and taking the pain of as many as he can to save lives.
he might of failed to save L'Aurel but he still might have a chance to save others.
it might seem cold. and it might seem like L'Aurels death means little to him, but nothing could be further from the truth. this is how he deals. he doesn't want to think of the possibility of her never comming back. he doesn't want to think at all. he just wants to make others feel pain for once.
mik


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> If the group doesn't want to leave the city before the battle is over, Xath can always take L'Aurel herself to Caer Maelyn. The ressurection is going to take some serious negotiating, something at which Xath excels, but which I know the others in the party are not too keen on. Limiting the number of party members traveling to Caer Maelyn eliminates the need to sneak off to the portal stone. However, leveling also eliminates the need to sneak off to the portal stone.
> 
> Characterwise, I'm a little iffy about the party leaving the city during the battle, but I also know that L'Aurel needs us, and were I she, I'd want to be in that waiting room for as little time as necessary. L'Aurel has always been there for Xath, and now is one time Xath can be there for her. So Xath will be going to Caer Maelyn in four hours. And she'd go sooner if she could.



Just a quick note:

Remember that you have an eternal oath of alliance to each other, but no formal commitment to the battle here. If you're all utilitarians, then there is no question...stay here, and hope you can bring L'Aurel back, later. However, if morals can be judged on something other than a scale of the good fo the many vs. the good of the few, or the one, then perhaps some urgency should be felt, despite the situation the city is in. 

None of it is *bad* but remember that there are lots of ways to measure *good.*

And, of course, that you have an oath. 

Also, as you ought to have learned by now--SPLITTING UP IS A BAD IDEA.


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## The_Universe (Jul 22, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> how does Archonus deal with grief?
> the answer is simple. alone.
> Archon wants nothing more the L'Aurel's return to life. but going to Caer Melyn would leave him with too much time to think and hurt, and right now all he wants to do is fight. fighting the draconids will help him fight with all the emotions he's feeling right now.
> so, expect Archon to head to the wall to fight as just another grunt. killing as many of the enemy as possible and taking the pain of as many as he can to save lives.
> ...



 Great character analysis.  

However, every minute you stay in New Ocaenus potentially leaves L'Aurel further and further from a return to life.  :\


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 22, 2004)

So, here's the deal-- Justice has very few relatives in this world-- she wants to see L'Aurel's wishes fulfilled just as much as anybody... but, we do need to assess the entire sitaution.

Liz's instincts say that we should stay and fight.  However, Justice has a connection to L'Aurel that she doesn't have with any of the other players.  Realistically, if one individual is attempting to take L'Aurel anywhere, she will want it to be her... in fact, she will probably fight to make it so... So, it's probably best to avoid that option as a whole.

In the end, what do your characters feel is most important?  The battle or the circle?


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## Xath (Jul 22, 2004)

Both are important, and that fact is key.  The longer we wait to save L'Aurel, the more difficult it will be to bring her back (if it is possible at all).  However, as far as we know, the most dangerous beings left in the army are the Reptus.  es, ae, i whatever.

Xath's principals have always told her that the good of the many superceeds the wants of the few.  However, logic must kick in.  How much good are we going to do on the walls?  Does that effect counterbalance the oath and the circle?

Xath is torn, but right now, her instincts are telling her that someone has to be there for L'aurel.  Someone has to go to Caer Maelyn to help her.  Since it will require intricate negotiations, that narrows it down to Xath and Justice, and (as far as Xath is concerned) Justice isn't confident enough in whether or not she wants L'Aurel to be brought back.  Justice is also having more of an impact on the battle.  

However, I also realize that those 1000 Yuan-ti could have alot of fun meeting my 32 remaining fireballs.  If Xath isn't one of those going to revive L'aurel, than she won't be resting.  She still has 6 bardic musics left, many of her spells, 32 fireballs, a staff of healing, and her sword.  The only thing really depleted is hero points.  Whoop.


----------



## Xath (Jul 22, 2004)

So basically that post says "Blah, blah, blah, as long as SOMEONE goes to Caer Maelyn, it's all good."  and "Fireball"


----------



## Archon (Jul 23, 2004)

*appeasing as many*

how bout this. Xath rests for 4 hours so she can take ALL of us to Caer Melyn. 
Everyone else does what they want for four hours (Archonus will be fighting with the Shadows of the Phoenix) then we meet back up and take care of our downed ally.
by then most of the heavy fighting should be over with and we should be able to leave the rest in the hands of Frarithier and the others.
mik


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## Laurel (Jul 23, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> we should be able to leave the rest in the hands of Frarithier and the others.



um.... oh, just remembered Farathier is now an NPC yep okay it's safe to leave


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## Xath (Jul 23, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Also XP for the undead was 12350 for those that don't have it.




Xath and Arfin got 13375 from this encounter, just for info purposes.  I think the two of us are now even at 88335xp once it all calculates in.


----------



## Xath (Jul 23, 2004)

Also, I talked to Tim.  He said he found his character sheet and should be giving it to Greg to bring on Saturday.  Then we'll know what's going on there.


----------



## Xath (Jul 23, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> how bout this. Xath rests for 4 hours so she can take ALL of us to Caer Melyn.
> Everyone else does what they want for four hours (Archonus will be fighting with the Shadows of the Phoenix) then we meet back up and take care of our downed ally.
> by then most of the heavy fighting should be over with and we should be able to leave the rest in the hands of Frarithier and the others.
> mik





Great idea.  You guys keep on fighting.  I'll take a nap.

Out of character, I think this is a really good plan.  In character, it's will take a little talking, but I think we can work it out.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 23, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath is torn, but right now, her instincts are telling her that someone has to be there for L'aurel.  Someone has to go to Caer Maelyn to help her.  Since it will require intricate negotiations, that narrows it down to Xath and Justice, and (as far as Xath is concerned) Justice isn't confident enough in whether or not she wants L'Aurel to be brought back.  Justice is also having more of an impact on the battle.





Gertie knows that Justice is torn... and, more than that, Justice's overall feelings about ressurection magic are what is torn-- *not* the idea that she wants L'Aurel back or not.  Of course she wants her back.  All that is being tested is her opinion about ressurection.

Based on what characters can see in how Justice is acting, she desires, above all else, to get L'Aurel to the magic she requested.
The characters know that Justice does not trust that sort of magic-- but, it doesn't not dull her resolve to do what L'Aurel wants... 
Justice is going to get L'Aurel where she needs to go and very little can stop her.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Great idea.  You guys keep on fighting.  I'll take a nap.
> 
> Out of character, I think this is a really good plan.  In character, it's will take a little talking, but I think we can work it out.



 I agree that this could work--anybody got any ideas on how to justify it IC?  If you think of something, post it on the IC thread.


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## Laurel (Jul 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I agree that this could work--anybody got any ideas on how to justify it IC? If you think of something, post it on the IC thread.



I posted  and should work easily for IC resolution... Unless someone has something better, or IC has a problem with what I put up..... Otherwise you guys just get to figure out once the battle is done how to get her back down


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 23, 2004)

In characters, Justice could be persuaded that leaving the battle in order to bring L'Aurel back is contrary to the very nature of The Circle.

Yes, we took an oath to each other-- but the oath had a purpose-- we have a purpose: to defeat the evil that is enguling the world as we know it.  I could be wrong but, I had assumed the oath's entire purpose was to increase and perfect our powers as a group and as individuals in order to *use* those powers to slay the evil army.

However, that is not Justice's current line of thought.  She is set on getting L'Aurel to the magic she wanted.


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## Archon (Jul 23, 2004)

*DnD, IC PCs in the D.C.*

i don't have a link to the IC thread (all my subscriptions were eaten). but there needs to be a little chat. i'll try and catch some of you guys online to talk IC for a second but it shouldn't take very long. and i think we can get deeper IC online then when we essentialy have to improv at the apt.
anyway, those are my thoughts not yours.   
mik aka "The Rare Spotted Nichols"


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## AIM-54 (Jul 23, 2004)

I'm not sure how what happened on the IC thread solved anything.  I think it would confuse the lot of us, but the major dilemma remains:  mainly, how long can we wait on getting Laurel out?

In game-wise, I think that while the battle looks to be turning to our favor, it's also a new development and one that, as far as we know, may be temporary.  Thus some of us want to stick around to see it through to a point where victory is more assured.  This doesn't necessarily mean a whole four hours.  But I think it's important we stick around for at least another hour to ensure recent gains are not immediately lost.


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## Xath (Jul 23, 2004)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86294&page=1&pp=20

That's the IC Discussion thread.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 23, 2004)

Ressurection, so far as we know, has only happened once: The Woodshadow...

And, we have very little knowledge about what happened there.  We know that it happened-- aside from that, there is nothing we can base our assumptions on.

It will be hard to convice Justice that we should even wait the 4 hours... at this point, she's ready to grab the boots from Xath, throw L'Aurel's body on Thane, and fly to the portal stone.


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## Laurel (Jul 23, 2004)

*I always assume I could be wrong and that nothing is written in stone*



			
				AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how what happened on the IC thread solved anything. I think it would confuse the lot of us, but the major dilemma remains: mainly, how long can we wait on getting Laurel out?



I think that is the main issue no one knows.... Dorn may know something, but otherwise it is just a chance. 
Xath was brought back within minutes of her demise, and that was a struggle of power and will and all sorts of other fun stuff- so you can assume the longer you wait the harder it will be- that means every second that passes makes it more difficult. 

so you can::
a) fight and kill a dear friend of L'Aurel's getting the body now, run from the battle, and still only possibly be able to bring her back

b) let the eagle worry about her body for now, focus the emotion (sadness, rage, hurt, whatever) into the beasts that killed L'Aurel and are still killing people you all have come to know and some to care deeply about. Once the tide is assured, everyone can go to Jaine (_or even go to Jaine now for advice/orders_). Then you are not tucking tail and running or going missing. 
You maybe worse off to get L'Aurel back and it may even have to use stranger magics, but it would be better for convincing the spell casters to use this magic if you have all your strengths (histories, stories, prestige) and charisma's together.

c) have one person with high cha. go with the body & *eagle* to start negotiations, the remaining people use boots of teleport once the battle is decided one way or the other.

Yes, there are other options but these are I think the big ones.....


----------



## Laurel (Jul 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Ressurection, so far as we know, has only happened once: The Woodshadow...
> And, we have very little knowledge about what happened there. We know that it happened-- aside from that, there is nothing we can base our assumptions on.
> It will be hard to convice Justice that we should even wait the 4 hours... at this point, she's ready to grab the boots from Xath, throw L'Aurel's body on Thane, and fly to the portal stone.



Actually, keep forgetting this, but we did see it first had -Arfin wished for the Duke to be ressurected.  But that happened after some time and he seems fine... how long?


----------



## AIM-54 (Jul 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Ressurection, so far as we know, has only happened once: The Woodshadow...
> 
> And, we have very little knowledge about what happened there.  We know that it happened-- aside from that, there is nothing we can base our assumptions on.
> 
> It will be hard to convice Justice that we should even wait the 4 hours... at this point, she's ready to grab the boots from Xath, throw L'Aurel's body on Thane, and fly to the portal stone.




I believe I offered a reasonable compromise between our duty to the town and our oath to our fallen comrade, weighted somewhat to the latter.  My reasoning is pretty clear above, but I think, under the circumstances and considering the situation that waiting four hours might be risky for the chance of successful resurrection, while leaving now might be risky for the outcome of the battle.  Having made that judgment and weighed the risks, I think our best option would be to ensure recent momentum continues before flying off to Caer Melyn.  Namely, make sure the next hour goes well and then leave it to the locals and their leadership.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

The Duke was down about 2-4 hours, iirc, and there is a substantial difference between a Wish and a resurrection spell.   What that difference is--only experience can tell you.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> I believe I offered a reasonable compromise between our duty to the town and our oath to our fallen comrade, weighted somewhat to the latter. My reasoning is pretty clear above, but I think, under the circumstances and considering the situation that waiting four hours might be risky for the chance of successful resurrection, while leaving now might be risky for the outcome of the battle. Having made that judgment and weighed the risks, I think our best option would be to ensure recent momentum continues before flying off to Caer Maelynn (sp?). Namely, make sure the next hour goes well and then leave it to the locals and their leadership.



I think her difficulty is not OOC, just in IC. I think if someone reminds Justice that it will be faster to let Xath rest and gather her "strength" (ie level) and have everyone teleport than start to fly their, now, she'll relent. 

Let's try to have IC discussions on the IC thread, and then keep ourselves free to be frank and honest between *players* on this thread. That should minimize confusion as much as is possible. 

As for the compromise--you're pretty much stuck waiting at least 4 hours, so do what you want with that time. By which I mean--I agree with jeremiah.  Do what your character would do for 4 hours, and then get a move on, assuming you still can.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

Also, _Caer Melyn_. Caer Maelyn is close, though.


----------



## AIM-54 (Jul 23, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think her difficulty is not OOC, just in IC.  I think if someone reminds Justice that it will be faster to let Xath rest and gather her "strength" (ie level) and have everyone teleport than start to fly their, now, she'll relent.
> 
> Let's try to have IC discussions on the IC thread, and then keep ourselves free to be frank and honest between *players* on this thread.  That should minimize confusion as much as is possible.
> 
> As for the compromise--you're pretty much stuck waiting at least 4 hours, so do what you want with that time.




Yeah, but it's really hard for me to communicate effectively IC, so I like to be clear over here first.

What's happened on the IC thread thus far hasn't really facilitated a situation where Kaereth can try and converse.

Of course, I could just write "Kaereth smash" and leave it at that.   

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling, too.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 23, 2004)

I'll just read what you guys and gals post on the IC thread from here on out and relay the ending to Greg


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Yeah, but it's really hard for me to communicate effectively IC, so I like to be clear over here first.
> 
> What's happened on the IC thread thus far hasn't really facilitated a situation where Kaereth can try and converse.
> 
> ...



I agree--kaereth's strength is not IC discussion. On the other hand, the two are not always opposed. OOC, you can be as articulate as you actually *are*, thus making Kaereth's near-gibberish a little clearer when you're IC. 

And yeah--Kat's thing isn't a discussion starter...more just something to comment on for the other characters, who should already be talking amongst each other. 

Lastly, the IC/OOC thing isn't a criticism of any one person...just trying to remind people to give the OOC _and _the IC perspective as much as possible, so it doesn't just look like we're being obstructionist.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 23, 2004)

*after reading IC thread with Kareth's words*

 You just have to love the big green guy dontcha!  

JC-- good job on IC and OCC discussion!


----------



## Archon (Jul 23, 2004)

*empathy from Archon*

i haven't posted it IC yet but Archon is going to try and communicate with the eagle.
mik


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

Good idea.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 23, 2004)

Just a clarification:

Justice is going to be a very hard sell and she is not thinking rationally.

As I have said before, Liz wants to stay, wait, rest, ect... but, Justice is not going to see it that way at the current time.
I want to role play this out as well as possible and I don't want Justice to cave because of OOC discussion... want her to be persuaded through IC discussion and explination.


----------



## Archon (Jul 23, 2004)

*IC persuasion*

fair enough. sounds like Archon has a challenge.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

Right on. That's the way it should be.  Commence with the debate!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 23, 2004)

Just so everyone is clear on the family lines... Justice and L'Aurel are sisters in arms, but not actual sisters.  

I like where the IC discussion has and is going  ... and Archonus should not have too difficult a time with the eagle -- he's kinda like Justice right now just confused, scared, and now really lonly.  They had an enpathic bond and really there is only the regular sized eagle who he is letting rest near him, but not within reach.  
And realize that it's not bad to just let the eagle protect the body right now, while you guys fight.  One less thing you have to worry about.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 23, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Just so everyone is clear on the family lines... Justice and L'Aurel are sisters in arms, but not actual sisters.
> 
> I like where the IC discussion has and is going  ... and Archonus should not have too difficult a time with the eagle -- he's kinda like Justice right now just confused, scared, and now really lonly.  They had an enpathic bond and really there is only the regular sized eagle who he is letting rest near him, but not within reach.
> And realize that it's not bad to just let the eagle protect the body right now, while you guys fight.  One less thing you have to worry about.



 Not sisters... cousins, really.

Dorn and Preston are brothers... Dorn is L'Aurel's father.  Preston is Justice's grandfather.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 23, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Not sisters... cousins, really.
> 
> Dorn and Preston are brothers... Dorn is L'Aurel's father.  Preston is Justice's grandfather.



 In fact, they are first cousins, once removed.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 26, 2004)

Good game this weekend ladies and gentlemen!  

Just a reminder that I'll put here, first--a couple paragraphs of "dream" sent to me would be a good idea.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 26, 2004)

Also--on the subject of 'Groove.'

Here is what I envision--we should use groove for filesharing (post all the game documents you can find there, in fact!), and it's ok to use it for some discussion, as well.  However, *everyone* can access enworld if they want to during the week, and so I want to keep most of the OOC and IC discussions when we're not really gaming here so we don't effectively disenfranchise someone who--for instance--can't use groove at work.

I hope that makes sense.  

As for the download itself, it can be found at www.groove.net/downloads.  If you have any questions, IM me.  It's really easy to camoflage here at work, for me...as it masquerades as real work far easier than ENworld does...but I know that not everyone has admin rights at their work computers, so let's keep using this for the moment.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 26, 2004)

tee-hee... hope everyone enjoyed Penny as much as I had playin' her


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 26, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> tee-hee... hope everyone enjoyed Penny as much as I had playin' her



 I really liked playing with Penny-- she's a great character that, Kat!!


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 26, 2004)

Who needs L'Aurel, anyways!?


----------



## Xath (Jul 26, 2004)

I need L'Aurel.


----------



## Archon (Jul 27, 2004)

*hugs instead of hate*

i don't know it was kind of nice having someone who liked Archon and didn't call him a brooding a-hole.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 27, 2004)

So, I'm assuming (and possibly wrongly) that we're going to run into Sulora (spelling?) in the not too distant future..

She is a powerful SPELLCASTER *read in nerd voice* that must be defeated.

How can we do that?  Well... here are my ideas...  When we fought her last adventure, she did not appear to have the Silent or Still Spell feats as she spoke and motioned with all of her spells... that doesn't mean she doesn't have those feats... but, we can at least assume she does not.

So, my first suggestion would be to cast silence and hold person as soon as we see her next time.  Hopefully, Xath, Justice, and Penny will get to go before her and one of us can Hold her, one of us can Silence her, and the last can cast Light on her head in order to provide a visible target if, indeed, she still can cast spells and attempts to Mislead us again.

This is my plan for now-- what does everyone else think?  Ideas?  Suggestions?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 27, 2004)

*Yay!!*

On a totally different note...

Medallions (the bitchin' story hour for those of you that READ) updated today!!! YAY!!!


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

*Hero Points*

Hey gang.  

So, I decided that I really don't like Hero Points as they are currently being run.  Part of me just wants to trash the whole mechanic.  However, as they are a player favorite, I will instead propose the following changes:

1) As has already been stated, Hero Points have been capped at your level.

2) Instead of regaining lost hero points when you rest, you will potentially regain hero points when you increase in level, and ONLY when you increase in level.  

3)  You may only spend 1 hero point per action.  However, you may expend hero points on more than one action in a round.    

4)  Hero points spent will no longer increase all rolls in a single round.  Each hero point will only apply to a single roll. 

Although this makes hero points less powerful, it also makes them less ridiculous.  If you think this will cripple the game, or otherwise hamper your fun, make an argument--I want this hashed out by the time we play on saturday.  

Also, Kat--can you make sure Greg gets a look at this.  I don't want him disenfranchised on this one.  

Thanks guys!


----------



## Xath (Jul 27, 2004)

As long as these rules apply to the bad guys too, I'm fine with it.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

Oh no-these rules only apply to the good guys.  Villain points haven been changed to numeric bonus for evil creatures and NPCs--automatic +50 to everything.


----------



## AIM-54 (Jul 27, 2004)

Excellent.  I like the changes.  Fixes it from broken to not so much.  Although if the mechanic disappeared I would certainly not complain.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 27, 2004)

*Use for the Hero Points?*

I dig it!

However, I do have one question about the usage of Hero Points...

Is it possible to utilize them like so:

Roll the d10 AFTER the d20 has been rolled but BEFORE the results have been declared by the DM?

For example, Justice is about to attack a disgusting monster... Liz rolls the d20 and it comes up a 2 which would add up to a 21 for Justice... based on past rolls, I know that the monsters AC is at least 23... so, before The Universe says "Miss!" I bust out a Hero Point to add it on to my roll in hopes that it will increase my attack roll by the necessary 2 points...

The Action Points in Modern work like that and I really enjoy that particular mechanic...


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Excellent.  I like the changes.  Fixes it from broken to not so much.  Although if the mechanic disappeared I would certainly not complain.



 Yeah--trying to brign them more in line with the action points of D20 Modern or Eberron.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I dig it!
> 
> However, I do have one question about the usage of Hero Points...
> 
> ...



 Sure!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Who needs L'Aurel, anyways!?



I'm gonna go cry in a corner now... and take my minature with me....



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> I need L'Aurel.



Thank you... one for the boring yet needed ranged attacker



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> i don't know it was kind of nice having someone who liked Archon and didn't call him a brooding a-hole.



um... I hate to bust his bubble, but Penny likes him cause he is the cute broody  it makes him more mystrious... and honestly, come on Archy is gettin' the most love of all the guys around


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

I don't see a problem with this change... everyone just may have to remind since I was just getting the other way of dealing with Hero Points.  

Greg should be reading Kennon's e-mail tomorrow and will respond that way.


----------



## Xath (Jul 27, 2004)

When do we get our dreams?


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## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

Um, big issue with the whole just throwing spells at Selura... she has awsome saves!!! Penny's stuff is really high yet selura was shrugging most everything off, so Penny had to go to defense instead of offense.... Penny tried the hold person, the charm person, and quite a few others but all to no avail...

I can give her different spells, since she has slept.  I should be able to better alot them now that I, Kat, have more knowledge of spells and what they do/how they work.  

Penny- 'i can take her. i am the best, and she has a lot to answer for-- like making me look bad in front of Archy'  ::she doesn't actually say this outload


----------



## Xath (Jul 27, 2004)

Here's a question.  If Xath didn't want Archonus to take her pain, what could she do about it?

The QP doesn't specify.  Would it be an opposed will save?  Would she have to burn a hero point?


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> When do we get our dreams?



um... once he has them all.... and then draws who gets what and such  
geesh patience there Gerti!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Here's a question. If Xath didn't want Archonus to take her pain, what could she do about it?
> 
> The QP doesn't specify. Would it be an opposed will save? Would she have to burn a hero point?



knock him out... tell him not to- that would actually be a cool IC convo.   and could shed light on Archy's reasons for Xath


----------



## Xath (Jul 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Penny- 'i can take her. i am the best, and she has a lot to answer for-- like making me look bad in front of Archy'  ::she doesn't actually say this outload




You're the best?

Archy?


----------



## Archon (Jul 27, 2004)

*Archon's love life...at a glance*

heh, Archy. that's fun. 
she likes him cause he's cute and broody huh? hmm...there should be some fun ICing in the near future. 
and hey, if you guys see me online i'd be more then happy to drop into an IC convo. 
i have my dream done and it's not as depressing as The Chase!! 
so we're just waiting on you slackers!!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

Well.... the sexy mark over your eye doesn't bother her either  

Are we rolling spot for the left item at breakfast?  Or was he the last to leave? --when Xath and Penny went to have the cat fight using magic-- And unless he moved away you bet Penny managed to sit next ta him at the table


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> You're the best? Archy?



She thinks she is, and so far nothings happened to say she isn't.  Selura just caught her off guard... that's all.

As for Archy, it's like Penny for Pendara- to make him take light of himself more, but currently she only says the pet name mentally...... yep no ring of telepathy, so we're all good.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> When do we get our dreams?



 As soon as I have dreams from everyone.  I still need dreams from JC and Liz.


----------



## Xath (Jul 27, 2004)

I wonder what Penny dreams about...


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

L'Aurel said:
			
		

> Um, big issue with the whole just throwing spells at Selura... she has awsome saves!!! Penny's stuff is really high yet selura was shrugging most everything off, so Penny had to go to defense instead of offense.... Penny tried the hold person, the charm person, and quite a few others but all to no avail...
> 
> I can give her different spells, since she has slept. I should be able to better alot them now that I, Kat, have more knowledge of spells and what they do/how they work.
> 
> Penny- 'i can take her. i am the best, and she has a lot to answer for-- like making me look bad in front of Archy' ::she doesn't actually say this outload



It wasn't her saves that were really crippling you--it was her Spell Resistence. If you can figure out a way to get past that, you'll be golden. Be looking at spells that don't allow spell resistence, and concentrate on those.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> You're the best?
> 
> Archy?



 She may not be the best, but we know who she is better than...  

Ah--it never gets old!


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Here's a question.  If Xath didn't want Archonus to take her pain, what could she do about it?
> 
> The QP doesn't specify.  Would it be an opposed will save?  Would she have to burn a hero point?



 Other than confronting Archonus directly with it, I am not sure there is a way to do it.  The nature of the power means that it can't be resisted.  The only non-consensual way to do it would just be to get out of range and stay there.  

However, I recommend confronting Archon IC, because that's a great deal more entertaining.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I wonder what Penny dreams about...



 Flowers, Unicorns, and Naked Archonus?


----------



## Xath (Jul 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> She may not be the best, but we know who she is better than...
> 
> Ah--it never gets old!





No, it doesn't.  Ha ha ha ha ha ha.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I wonder what Penny dreams about...





			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Flowers, Unicorns, and Naked Archonus?



tee-hee.... that would be the watered- grandma version yes.... I don't think anyone really wants to know- it may too disturbing for any/everyone  

How to solve most problems: "The only non-consensual way to do it would just be to get out of range and stay there." -Kennon


----------



## AIM-54 (Jul 27, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It wasn't her saves that were really crippling you--it was her Spell Resistence. If you can figure out a way to get past that, you'll be golden. Be looking at spells that don't allow spell resistence, and concentrate on those.




Or distract her until the monk can grapple her...pretty hard to cast spells if you're pinned...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 27, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Um, big issue with the whole just throwing spells at Selura... she has awsome saves!!! Penny's stuff is really high yet selura was shrugging most everything off, so Penny had to go to defense instead of offense.... Penny tried the hold person, the charm person, and quite a few others but all to no avail...
> 
> I can give her different spells, since she has slept.  I should be able to better alot them now that I, Kat, have more knowledge of spells and what they do/how they work.
> 
> Penny- 'i can take her. i am the best, and she has a lot to answer for-- like making me look bad in front of Archy'  ::she doesn't actually say this outload



 You can use Hero Points to increase the Spell Save DC.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 27, 2004)

Hehehehehe... I LIKE that idea, JC!! (the grappling, that is)

Just grab her and punch her over and over and then she'll be dead... and you can't cast spells when your dead.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 27, 2004)

I will turn in my dream when I have time-- my job doesn't allow for slacking and not doing anything... 

Started working on it last night but, it's kind of complicated.  Sorry it's taking so long...just haven't had a large window of time to work on it.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 27, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> You can use Hero Points to increase the Spell Save DC.



It seems we have to beat her spell resistance... looking into that one....

And I work, it's not all slacking off.  Actually in comparison to everyone else in the office I do a LOT of work.... how sad


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 27, 2004)

That *is* sad.  I had a busy day today, too Kat.  I feel your pain!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 28, 2004)

*Character issues.... from IC thread*

So I wanted to see from what you (everyone) has seen of Pendara how would you vote:
A) she would open door and if she came across the journal read it
B) she wold open door then quickly shut it, and run away


----------



## Archon (Jul 28, 2004)

*dear diary...*

she wants to do the right thing and respect Archon's privacy.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 28, 2004)

*The Devil on Your Shoulder*

She wants to respect his privacy! Of course she does! But how can she know what he thinks is private, and what isn't without learning more about him? The only way to understand Archonus is to see into his thoughts. And since the Circle won't give you (Penny) one of their accursed rings and reading his thoughts would be too obvious, you'll have to do the next best thing--read what he has written about his thoughts. After all, what are books for, but to be read?


----------



## Xath (Jul 28, 2004)

I think it's completely up to you, Kat.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 28, 2004)

I think Xath should have read it in the first place-- it's OBVIOUS that Archon wants you to!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

Well, it seems archon needs to learn to remember his things, and it proved too much of a temptation for penny.... though she still hasn't gotten to see the journal yet .... maybe...It was a draw on the penny issue- I had equal reasons for her doing either, and so hoped other opinions would push it one way or the other... but what happened happend and what will happen will happen.... hmmm... hopefully I just don't have to write another character


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 29, 2004)

Heh-I think L'Aurel is still on the way back...but everybody likes Penny, too!  HAH!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

*Love can really change a person*

hehehehe.... Penny and Kareth  She needs someone strong and who won't talk back-- let her take care of him int. wise, while he takes over str. and wis. issues 

--Scene from above: L'aurel and Link on a couch, "Can you pass me the popcorn?" "this is the part where I always cry!" L'Aurel goes for more popcorn at intermission, as Link shouts, "Hey, grab me a beer!"-- from a short but amusing convo. at 1am


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

*A special thanks*

Maybe while the emotional side-line is happening upstairs:: Justice is getting some actual answers that help the quest, help her storyline, and well... may just help with everything

 Here's ta wishin'


----------



## Xath (Jul 29, 2004)

What do you mean? Someone in our party is doing something...useful?  Gathering important information?   Nah....


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 29, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> What do you mean? Someone in our party is doing something...useful?  Gathering important information?   Nah....



 Strange though it may be, it is HAPPENING!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

Question about timeline:
everyone goes to breakfast
after breakfast, Archon and Penny leave, Xath shortly there after with left journal, while Justice starts chatting with priest..... 

How long was Arhconus getting ready- or is it more he left the table, xath grabs book goes to his door, she leaves, he puts book down then leaves room.....?....


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 29, 2004)

Well-- it's not all useful... in the process of telling the Bishop about my... uh... heritage... in hopes that he doesn't laugh and spit in my face...

Then, I'm going to start my church... Pope Justice... I like the sound of that.

But, thanks for recognizing my efforts!  I know they have not been in vain!


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Well-- it's not all useful... in the process of telling the Bishop about my... uh... heritage... in hopes that he doesn't laugh and spit in my face...



  you never know- it may not help Justice (though I think it will before the end) but there can always be random stuff that helps someone else and the group


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 29, 2004)

It's therapy-- I haven't gotten to speak to anyone *in the church* for a while... helping me to cope with everything that's happened without having to seem all mature and grown up (and instead seeming cold and bitchy).


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

from IC thread--"He and L'Aurel are my only family..."

um... there is Dorn also, and blood wise he is closer then L'Aurel is to Justice
 can't forget pappy  well... great-uncle for Justice.

Therepy good.... death is also good therapy, so everyone should die


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Question about timeline:
> everyone goes to breakfast
> after breakfast, Archon and Penny leave, Xath shortly there after with left journal, while Justice starts chatting with priest.....
> 
> How long was Arhconus getting ready- or is it more he left the table, xath grabs book goes to his door, she leaves, he puts book down then leaves room.....?....



 It's all happening pretty fast.  I'd say the whole exchange from entering Archon's room to Penny going back to hers to make sure she's ready for the mission took maybe 20 minutes.

Meanwhile, Kaereth and Arfin are with Justice, eating breakfast with the monks.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 29, 2004)

Yes!  I forget Dorn!

I'll edit!


----------



## Archon (Jul 29, 2004)

so when do we actually leave for the Libary? or will we take care of that during the game?


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> so when do we actually leave for the Libary? or will we take care of that during the game?



DM's ruling, but I thought we had basically said "cool, here's we meet in x amount of time at y place" after breakfast.  So we start Sat. with meeting up and going to library- then all the IC stuff can happen or continue.... but Kennon? 

Um... did we ever actually come up with a plan? Walk in? Disguise?.....


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 29, 2004)

We need to be disguised... and, probably not walk in in one huge group.  But, after that, just walk in... and start the search.


----------



## The_Universe (Jul 29, 2004)

There is, at the moment, no plan forthcoming.  There are no NPCs here to help you come up with one.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 29, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> We need to be disguised... and, probably not walk in in one huge group. But, after that, just walk in... and start the search.



Well, Penny could just walk in, I think, since she is not known to be with the outlaws and she has been there before for research.  And it's not lying at all when she says 'I am here to do research.'

Splitting up is not a good idea though... As a possible logic for everyone to be a in a big group (and remeber Penny has int. 24, kat not so much)

Every good research needs helpers- people she can direct to her books, carry her books (she is a weakling), and transcribe any texts she needs.  Penny does not want to bother the librarians who run the library again, last time they just ended up messing her research and almost made her late with vital information about (whatever)!


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## The_Universe (Jul 29, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Well, Penny could just walk in, I think, since she is not known to be with the outlaws and she has been there before for research. And it's not lying at all when she says 'I am here to do research.'



Well, she may not be as well known as the rest, but she did just attack Selura...that's not likely to keep her off of the outlaw list, for long.


----------



## Archon (Jul 29, 2004)

*taking the red pill*

so here we go.
first we check the place out. pull some recon. see how many "baddies" we have in there and when they leave. if they leave.
after that we all jump into some heavy "weapon and armor concealing" monk robes waltz in and look up the info we need. if the poo hits the fan we throw open the robes and Matrix their lobby. If agent Selura shows up we reprogram her. 
anyway...yeah. lets kick some butt.


----------



## Laurel (Jul 30, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> so here we go.
> first we check the place out. pull some recon. see how many "baddies" we have in there and when they leave. if they leave.
> after that we all jump into some heavy "weapon and armor concealing" monk robes waltz in and look up the info we need. if the poo hits the fan we throw open the robes and Matrix their lobby. If agent Selura shows up we reprogram her.
> anyway...yeah. lets kick some butt.



Penny agrees and thinks its the best plan ever!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

My apologies to everyone for having to ditch out early on Saturday... I really wanted to stay and play... but, my migrain was quickly taking over my entire body and, eventually, rendered me completely incapable of doing anything but wimpering and throwing up... not very much fun, at all.  However, it is done!

Just wondering what all went on?  What are characters thoughts as to what we should be doing, now?  

Just go back to Hyrwl?  

Purge the library of Red Mages?  

Pretend to be Sulora and make the Red Mages do our bidding?  

Round up the Red Mages and teleport them back to Hyrwl and question them?  (can a Paladin/lawful good character keep prisoners of war so long as they are treated with dignity and respect?  Justice would really like to take them all back to Hyrwl and just put them in cells and question them/convert them to our side... except for the Ogre Mages... we can just kill them... I'm sure that they are evil and hungry, the worlds most damnable combination).

Yay for plans!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

*POWs*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Round up the Red Mages and teleport them back to Hyrwl and question them?  (can a Paladin/lawful good character keep prisoners of war so long as they are treated with dignity and respect?  Justice would really like to take them all back to Hyrwl and just put them in cells and question them/convert them to our side... except for the Ogre Mages... we can just kill them... I'm sure that they are evil and hungry, the worlds most damnable combination).




Posted a thread about POWs...

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1686378#post1686378

Trying to get outside opinion on whether or not lawful good characters can keep them or not...


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Just wondering what all went on? What are characters thoughts as to what we should be doing, now?



Nothing of import, IIRC.   



			
				Queen_Doppelpopolis said:
			
		

> Just go back to Hyrwl?
> 
> Purge the library of Red Mages?
> 
> ...



1) All of the above are potentially good ideas.  Remember also that the ancient queen's amulet sparkles, almost as if alive, over Xath's chest.  Something is close...closer, within the library.

2) Ogre mages, though evil, are not killable by LG characters unless openly hostile.  Unless they pose an imminent danger, you can't just whack them.  These guys aren't draconid evil--they're just mean...and working perfectly legally, as well.  

3) AFAIK, Prisoners of War can be kept by LG-type characters, although anybody who's *good* at all should treat any fairly taken prisoners with at least some respect.  The problem I forsee most in this situation is being able simultaneously *keep* the prisoners prisoners, and still treat them with respect.  Mages, as a rule, are fairly good at escaping mundane captivity...and I'm not sure that the Barony of Hyrwl/Realm of the Phoenix Queen has the resources to construct a magical prison of the caliber necessary to confine *these* mages, who are presumably among the King's best.


----------



## Xath (Aug 2, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Just wondering what all went on?  What are characters thoughts as to what we should be doing, now?




Well, we've saved L'Aurel, which is what we originally set out to do.  However, there's a Spirit Blade here.  And we just killed the only one of the King's men in the area that knows about it.  Shouldn't we take this as a head start, before they send someone else to take over the search?  



> Just go back to Hyrwl?




How about....no.



> Purge the library of Red Mages?




Why purge them?  They don't know anything of the spirit blades or the King's connection to the Draconids.  Some of them could make powerful allies if they could just be convinced to join us.



> Pretend to be Sulora and make the Red Mages do our bidding?




This is a good idea, but we have to be careful about how much we interact with them, and how much we tell them about the spirit blade.  Selura obviously didn't tell them much.



> Round up the Red Mages and teleport them back to Hyrwl and question them?  (can a Paladin/lawful good character keep prisoners of war so long as they are treated with dignity and respect?  Justice would really like to take them all back to Hyrwl and just put them in cells and question them/convert them to our side... except for the Ogre Mages... we can just kill them... I'm sure that they are evil and hungry, the worlds most damnable combination).




I think taking them as prisoners is a good idea; however, let's contact Hyrule before we do anything of the sort, and be sure they are prepared to take that many Mage prisoners.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 2, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Just wondering what all went on? What are characters thoughts as to what we should be doing, now?



Not much... 



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Just go back to Hyrwl? Purge the library of Red Mages? Pretend to be Sulora and make the Red Mages do our bidding?



I don't think we can at this point. There is a spirit blade here.
There was some talk of giving the red mages false information to take elsewhere. "Selura" tells them in small groups that she is staying behind to see about the troubles and some unfinished business with the priest- insert nasty smile.

........Um, when did we go to sleep? Are we just planning on waking up in eight hours if nothing happens before then?.... Kennon minor point, but is there a garden inside/outside near the grounds were we are?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I think taking them as prisoners is a good idea; however, let's contact Hyrule before we do anything of the sort, and be sure they are prepared to take that many Mage prisoners.




See the IC thread-- Justice just sent letters to Randall and Cawys seeking advice.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 2, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> See the IC thread-- Justice just sent letters to Randall and Cawys seeking advice.



And Cawys was his normal helpful self I see.... hopefully Randall is more help.

Liz can I e-mail ya at work?  I only have your AU and cox add.s saved.


----------



## AIM-54 (Aug 2, 2004)

My view is pretty simple:

1)We're here, we have the handy gadget and there's a blade kicking around.  First order of business is clearly to acquire the Spiritblade and ensure it doesn't fall into the King's hands.  As Kennon mentioned at some point, if the King's plan requires all the blades, all we need is one to throw a wrench into that.

2)  Doing anything with the Red Mages is exceedingly dangerous.  Best thing would be to grab the blade and be gone as fast as possible before they get any more suspicious.  There are a lot of them and that poses problems for the conversion plan as there is likely to be some form of hierarchy and whatnot.  Further, any that we did 'turn' to our side probably couldn't be trusted.  The last thing we need to do is put powerful people in a fantastic spot to betray us.  Just killing them pretty much violates the general alignment of the party and imprisoning them would be a logistical nightmare (whether or not we even had the ability to do it in the first place).

That's my take as it stands now.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Liz's work e-mail is ebauman@democracydata.com, I believe.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Out of character, I am trying to figure out what it would cost to make a prison capable of handling a bunch of mages.  It may have to wait until I can get home to see the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, which may have some wondrous architecture that'll do the trick. 

If somebody knows about other items that could do it that already exist, let me know...

Otherwise, it'll be back to trying to figure out how to make such an item/room/series of rooms from scratch.  

Really, this would be much easier if they were all evil--you could keep them bound, gagged, and guarded most of the time, and only take off the gags to feed them.  Since they're not evil, they require a little better treatment.  Dang it.


----------



## Xath (Aug 2, 2004)

However, Caer Maelyn would be the perfect place to imprison Red Mages, if we could turn that switch back on...and win over the monks....and claim the city for the Army of the Phoenix...


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Of course, it might be a good idea, as Jeremiah suggested, to just sneak/bluff past them, get the blade, and then leave them to their own devices. 

But, I think you want to examine your options.  Regardless of whether a prison is possible, capturing them to get them *to* the prison will be difficult to say the least.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> However, Caer Maelyn would be the perfect place to imprison Red Mages, if we could turn that switch back on...and win over the monks....and claim the city for the Army of the Phoenix...



 I'm changind Caer Melyn's subtitle from "The Ruined City" to "The City that Changes Hands at Least Twice per War" if that happens.


----------



## Xath (Aug 2, 2004)

It just seems to be a natural mage prison.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 2, 2004)

I agree the less we do to/with the mages the better, but looking at options always good if something goes wrong.  
Also, I think we do need something as I don't think we can expect the mages to be okay with Selura gone with no contact for half a day (if we are sleeping for eight hours).
I am not sure how everyone looks spell and health wise, but we could leave right away.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> It just seems to be a natural mage prison.



 Well, you might have trouble keeping them in, in all actuality.  But, if you can turn the ward on, you should be able to prevent all but a few of the mages from casting while they're in town.  

But there's really only one way to find out more...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

The Red Mages ARE dangerous to try to keep... but, they are dangerous to let go, as well... and, having a few of them on our side would be EXCELLENT.


----------



## AIM-54 (Aug 2, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The Red Mages ARE dangerous to try to keep... but, they are dangerous to let go, as well... and, having a few of them on our side would be EXCELLENT.




There's no guarantees that having them on our side means they are really on our side.

It would be a brilliant way to infiltrate our ranks is all I'm saying.

But maybe that's a risk worth taking...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, you might have trouble keeping them in, in all actuality.  But, if you can turn the ward on, you should be able to prevent all but a few of the mages from casting while they're in town.
> 
> But there's really only one way to find out more...




I saw we make the first order of business turning off the switch and preventing casting... dungeon crawls are fun when you have a total lack of trap-finders.  

After that, we take all the mages prisoner-- maybe bring some gaurds for Hyrwl here to cage them up and watch them.

Then, we have free reign to find the blade.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 2, 2004)

Yeah for Dungeon crawl!!! 
So we find the sword then turn off the magic  
Let the necklace that xath has help us get the sword first.....?....


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Yeah for Dungeon crawl!!!
> So we find the sword then turn off the magic
> Let the necklace that xath has help us get the sword first.....?....



 It may be easier to find the sword when we can get the mages out of our hair...


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> There's no guarantees that having them on our side means they are really on our side.
> 
> It would be a brilliant way to infiltrate our ranks is all I'm saying.
> 
> But maybe that's a risk worth taking...



 Well, it really wouldn't be a _brilliant _way to infiltrate your ranks, as it would have been pretty hard for them to predict that you would defeat Selura, and try to enlist their aid through whatever methods you might ultimately choose.  At best, it would be dumb luck.  

But, the ultimate point of Jeremiah's post is true--be careful about trusting any of them, as they lack the kind of motivation to serve you that the bluemages do...they can be who they are without fear of persecution.  So, be wary of trusting them to do your bidding.  However, they might have some useful information, as well....


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> It may be easier to find the sword when we can get the mages out of our hair...



 In the end, I'm not sure it matters what order we do this stuff in, though..

*shrugs*

Flip a gold piece, anyone?


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

*Red Mages, Swords, and Other Problems*

Ideally, getting rid of the red mages before you try to locate the sword would be best.  However, you really don't have a way to take all of them prisoner as it stands.  

Trying to find the switch seems like it would be a good way to make them easier to capture, but you don't really know where to start looking for the ward, other than the fact that it is ostensibly somewhere under the city.  

On the other hand, you have an amulet that tells you (sort of) how to find the closest spirit blade.  While it would be ideal to follow up on this after you take care of the mage problem, I am not sure you really have any way to take care of the mage problem...

So, tactically, if you can figure out how to quickly find the ward, that's best.  If you can't, you'll have to settle for something less than ideal.


----------



## AIM-54 (Aug 2, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, it really wouldn't be a _brilliant _way to infiltrate your ranks, as it would have been pretty hard for them to predict that you would defeat Selura, and try to enlist their aid through whatever methods you might ultimately choose.  At best, it would be dumb luck.




Apparently you equate brilliance with planning.  This is a false premise in this particular case.  It's a matter of finding oneself in a particular situation (in this case captured by rebels) who then try and wean you over to their side. Suddenly an opportunity to get inside the enemies ranks!  You play along, give what information you can, keep your eyes and ears open, work your way into their confidence and at an appropriate time (perhaps months in the future) pass off vital information or otherwise betray them to your leaders.

It doesn't have to be planned, it's simply taking advantage of a certain situation.  And it certainly doesn't require one to be evil, either.  A very lawful character is more likely to have that kind of loyalty to the regime and not so much in the way of qualms about betrayal.

Finally, there's no guarantee that these guys will be as easy to win over as Bishop Carr (who turned over pretty quickly...I was expecting much more resistance as that situation developed).  We've been pretty fortunate along these lines thus far, I don't know how much we want to tempt fate.

Thus, I'd rather not worry about some overly complex scheme to do everything we possibly can at this place and time and just grab the blade and move on.

But I appear to be in the minority.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Apparently you equate brilliance with planning.  This is a false premise in this particular case.  It's a matter of finding oneself in a particular situation (in this case captured by rebels) who then try and wean you over to their side. Suddenly an opportunity to get inside the enemies ranks!  You play along, give what information you can, keep your eyes and ears open, work your way into their confidence and at an appropriate time (perhaps months in the future) pass off vital information or otherwise betray them to your leaders.
> 
> It doesn't have to be planned, it's simply taking advantage of a certain situation.  And it certainly doesn't require one to be evil, either.  A very lawful character is more likely to have that kind of loyalty to the regime and not so much in the way of qualms about betrayal.
> 
> ...



 It would be nice to win some of them over.  I do not, by any means, expect it... quite the opposite in fact.  I assume that we will have to keep them as prisoners.

I am, at current, planning for the worst... hoping that Cawys and Randall will provide some insight as to how to flick the "switch" or just how to keep them captive until we can do something else with them.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

As a side note, once Penny is gone, does any one mind if Justice takes the boots of teleportation?

My boots of the winterlands would be up for grabs- they're nice.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

AIM-54 said:
			
		

> Apparently you equate brilliance with planning.  This is a false premise in this particular case.  It's a matter of finding oneself in a particular situation (in this case captured by rebels) who then try and wean you over to their side. Suddenly an opportunity to get inside the enemies ranks!  You play along, give what information you can, keep your eyes and ears open, work your way into their confidence and at an appropriate time (perhaps months in the future) pass off vital information or otherwise betray them to your leaders.
> 
> It doesn't have to be planned, it's simply taking advantage of a certain situation.  And it certainly doesn't require one to be evil, either.  A very lawful character is more likely to have that kind of loyalty to the regime and not so much in the way of qualms about betrayal.
> 
> ...



 Semantics aside, you are correct in assuming that these guys should be harder to roll than the bishop.  The only thing Carr was really invested in is the church, and he managed to convince Justice (he thinks) not to put that in danger.  

Even if he didn't think the King was a jerk before, he almost certainly thinks one of his chief lieutenants is a little bit of a beeyatch, and that doesn't reflect well on the king.  

On the other hand, the mages are part of an elite order dedicated to serving the King until death...


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Queen Doppelpopolis said:
			
		

> _He puts a sour taste in my mouth_.



This is SO easy to take out of context...I just about sprayed Diet Coke out of my nose when I read it.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> This is SO easy to take out of context...I just about sprayed Diet Coke out of my nose when I read it.



 Oh just shut up!!


----------



## Xath (Aug 2, 2004)

Nod.  I saw that and was glad that note went to randall, and not to Cawys.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Yes.  The statement, "Oh yeah!  I'll _put _a sour taste in your mouth, baby!" comes (heh, comes) to mind.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Yes.  The statement, "Oh yeah!  I'll _put _a sour taste in your mouth, baby!" comes (heh, comes) to mind.



 Justice may not be very intelligent.  But she is totally smart enough to know NEVER to say anything like that around that disgusting man.

EW.


----------



## Archon (Aug 2, 2004)

*Blitz'em*

i agree with the JC. lets get the sword as fast as possible without the mages calling in for reinforcements.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 2, 2004)

Okay all grossness aside--

Boots: Why wouldn't they just go back to Xath?  Personally, so long as just one of them has them.  Boots of winterland... should definately go to Kareth he does have the lest clothing.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 2, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> i agree with the JC. lets get the sword as fast as possible without the mages calling in for reinforcements.



 The process of getting the sword could cause more trouble than ever thought possible with the Mages.

I have a hunch that the sword is in or around the library... so, we need to attempt to disengage the Mages before we can even attempt to get it.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 2, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay all grossness aside--
> 
> Boots: Why wouldn't they just go back to Xath?  Personally, so long as just one of them has them.  Boots of winterland... should definately go to Kareth he does have the lest clothing.



 I believe this refers to the second pair of boots, not the first.  IIRC, the party now has 2 pairs of Teleportation Boots.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 3, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I believe this refers to the second pair of boots, not the first.  IIRC, the party now has 2 pairs of Teleportation Boots.



 Yep-- that's what I was refering to...

I'd like to have them- but, if someone else wants them, just let me know.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The process of getting the sword could cause more trouble than ever thought possible with the Mages.
> I have a hunch that the sword is in or around the library... so, we need to attempt to disengage the Mages before we can even attempt to get it.



How will it cause trouble?  They don't even know what they are really looking for, Selura never told them.  They are looking through the library, not the tunnels.  After we have the sword we can get out quick, or go for the switchy thing.  According to legend should be in the tunnels we will be going through anyways.

There is a whole system of tunnels, and we just went through a direct path to get to the library.

Metagaming: There were secret doors we missed, this gives us a chance to go back through them if we need to get to the library.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 3, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I believe this refers to the second pair of boots, not the first. IIRC, the party now has 2 pairs of Teleportation Boots.



Ah, I mistakenly still thought we only had one pair.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 3, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> How will it cause trouble?  They don't even know what they are really looking for, Selura never told them.  They are looking through the library, not the tunnels.  After we have the sword we can get out quick, or go for the switchy thing.  According to legend should be in the tunnels we will be going through anyways.
> 
> There is a whole system of tunnels, and we just went through a direct path to get to the library.
> 
> Metagaming: There were secret doors we missed, this gives us a chance to go back through them if we need to get to the library.



 Just thinking about the trouble that pretending to be Sulora to a bunch of Mages could cause.

At this point, they have got to suspect that we've done SOMETHING to her... after all, she left with us and never came back... so, getting back in is going to take some creative bluffing..

Initially, I thought that finding the switch would not include a trip to the library... as it turns out, the entrance to the tunnels where the switch is is probably in the library...

So, it really doesn't matter at all what we do first--like a said-- roll a die, flip a coin, whatever works... or maybe we don't want to flip the switch at all, for that matter... 

It would be nice to take some of these Mages with us, somehow... but, if that is not possible, no big deal.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 3, 2004)

As an addition...

It would be nice to try to get information from the Red Mages... but, they don't seem to know much... our main source of information is dead and burned...

Hmm.. maybe we shouldn't have fired up that body so quick... *shrug*


----------



## Laurel (Aug 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> As an addition...
> It would be nice to try to get information from the Red Mages... but, they don't seem to know much... our main source of information is dead and burned...
> Hmm.. maybe we shouldn't have fired up that body so quick... *shrug*



Well, we had already asked him a lot so saying asking him to wait to burn her a few more minutes, then take the body and use magic on it... oh yeah he would really like us then.

Once we get the blade, we may be able to deal with the magic stuff and possible go after info.  Primary concern should be the blade though.

If we need to use teleport and get the blade out of there we can.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Just thinking about the trouble that pretending to be Sulora to a bunch of Mages could cause.
> 
> At this point, they have got to suspect that we've done SOMETHING to her... after all, she left with us and never came back... so, getting back in is going to take some creative bluffing..
> 
> ...



The entrance thing is a surprise to me...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 3, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The entrance thing is a surprise to me...



 That particular slice of knowledge is a vague memory from when the heroes of the last game were turning OFF the switch...

I was there... but, my memory of what exactly happened is fuzzy.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> That particular slice of knowledge is a vague memory from when the heroes of the last game were turning OFF the switch...
> 
> I was there... but, my memory of what exactly happened is fuzzy.



 Don't metagame it TOO hard.  In order to make the assumption in character, you'd have to have at least some in-game explanation as to why you'd suspect that--which I don't think you have...

Anyway, from a realistic point of view, you know the following:  1) The sword is closer when you're in the library then when you're at the cathedral.  2) You don't have any idea where the 'switch' is, or even if it is really a switch.  3) Time is short.  

Based on those three facts, where you go next should be easy to decide.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 3, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Don't metagame it TOO hard.  In order to make the assumption in character, you'd have to have at least some in-game explanation as to why you'd suspect that--which I don't think you have...
> 
> Anyway, from a realistic point of view, you know the following:  1) The sword is closer when you're in the library then when you're at the cathedral.  2) You don't have any idea where the 'switch' is, or even if it is really a switch.  3) Time is short.
> 
> Based on those three facts, where you go next should be easy to decide.



 Not trying to metagame... you're the one that reminded me of the entire situation... thought you wanted me to pass along the information.

My apologies.

I think that my conversations/letters with Hyrwl will produce a more usable means to dispose of the mages, anyway.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 3, 2004)

For the mages we could just send Penny- let her fall in love with another great catch, and then she talks them to death.... what do you mean it's not a good idea?


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 3, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> How will it cause trouble? They don't even know what they are really looking for, Selura never told them. They are looking through the library, not the tunnels. After we have the sword we can get out quick, or go for the switchy thing. According to legend should be in the tunnels we will be going through anyways.
> 
> There is a whole system of tunnels, and we just went through a direct path to get to the library.
> 
> Metagaming: There were secret doors we missed, this gives us a chance to go back through them if we need to get to the library.



Metagame hint: unless you roll, or otherwise take care of them, the mages will cause trouble.  

Non-metagame hint: as far as you are concerned, IC, the secret doors DO NOT EXIST, and you have no reason to assume that they do, particularly in those places.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 3, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Metagame hint: unless you roll, or otherwise take care of them, the mages will cause trouble.
> 
> Non-metagame hint: as far as you are concerned, IC, the secret doors DO NOT EXIST, and you have no reason to assume that they do, particularly in those places.



 Doors don't exist, check!

I am working on finding a way to get the mages out of our hair... it will probably be expensive, though... 

Justice plans to teleport back to Hyrwl to get some information from Cawys and Randall in the near future...

Anyone that wants to come along is more than welcome... Justice would like at least one of the boys to come along to play bodygaurd to her while she converses with Cawys.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Doors don't exist, check!
> I am working on finding a way to get the mages out of our hair... it will probably be expensive, though...
> Justice plans to teleport back to Hyrwl to get some information from Cawys and Randall in the near future...
> Anyone that wants to come along is more than welcome... Justice would like at least one of the boys to come along to play bodygaurd to her while she converses with Cawys.



Since I am assuming Justice is telling the group she plans to teleport back, L'Aurel would offer to go, but she's not one of the boys or melee so not good for bodyguard type.

On the mages- Well, we'll see what comes of the talks and chats and see what the options are.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Doors don't exist, check!



Well, doors _do_ exist. Just not secret doors in that location, as far as you know.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 3, 2004)

Possible Problem:

We left the other Red Mage that took us to Sulora lying on the floor unconscious.

She saw the whole fight-- but, she didn't see Sulora die (thankfully).


----------



## Laurel (Aug 3, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Possible Problem:
> 
> We left the other Red Mage that took us to Sulora lying on the floor unconscious.
> 
> She saw the whole fight-- but, she didn't see Sulora die (thankfully).



Nope Kareth as the snake got her first.... heheh


----------



## Xath (Aug 3, 2004)

*The Ringed Continent's Most Wanted*

I think it would be nice to know where we stand on the Kingdom's most wanted.  Not only us (the PCs) but also us in a more general sense.  I think it would be fairly easy to do this. 

It takes at most an hour in game time.  We Alter Self and Glibness.  Then we teleport to a city (see the options below) and enter the City Watch posing as bounty hunters.  We ask for a copy of the bounty list.  And then we leave.

Very simple, but a chance to gather some info.

Making it more complicated...our city options.

*Atur:*  This is where we were originally headed on McShippy's boat.  Located on the northern point of the Aturian peninsula, the seat of the Barony is one of the two largest cities in this province of the kingdom.  On the maps taken from Arianna Blackadder's chambers, Atur was scheduled for invasion by the fleet which we stopped at Hyrule.  However, we know that Hyrule was only attacked by half of their forces.  It could be *cough cough* that we find something very interesting happening in Atur.  Kennon highly reccomends it.

Atur Population 71227 (20% non-adults) Racial Breakdown: Human 30%, Mid Elf 20%, Ogrun 10%, Smallfolk 10%, High Alder 5%, Dwarf 5%, Orc 5%, Half-Orc 5%, True Alder 5%, Other 5% Resource Limit: 100000 GP Government: Royal Barony Notable NPCs: Baron Krin Hansberry (Human)-Lord Aturia. Full time Guardsmen: 591 Potential militia: 2956

Also, directly to the west of Atur lies Citadel Oneid, the home of his magesty's forces in the East.  Atur may certainly be interesting, but it may end up being more than a 1 hour jaunt.


Portstown- The largest city in Alderia, but not the seat of the Barony, Portstown offers a less interesting and presumably "safer" chance to find our information.


But who are we to play it safe?

This is not meant to superceed our goals in Caer Maelyn, I just thought it would be a fun and informative side quest if we find ourselves at a loss of what to do for an hour.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 4, 2004)

L'Aurel yawns stretching arms wide, "You guys go ahead. I just need a min-" head thumps down on table.

Just kidding, I know you said if we find we have an hour at some point and you did not say right now... but right after I read it that's what came to mind.

Okay so.....


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 4, 2004)

We know exactly where we stand... we're wanted.  Bishop Carr, in the secluded church/library town, knows that we are wanted.

If, indeed, the king were to change our status, we'd know.  He knows where our base is and any information such as that is bound to make it our way pretty quickly.

As for how much the bounty is... well, at current, it's not really a necessity and, as such, I would definately avoid putting ourself in any danger for something that does little to further our cause.

At some point in the future--probably not any time too soon-- it would be nice to go people watch/gather information about the goings on in the world.  We are pretty cut off.  But, any *big* info, I'm sure that we'll get through Jaine's connections with the outside world.
Additionally, we did just meet up with an army of dwarves that may have some information that we desire-- they are a secluded people, in general but, I'm sure they can tell us something we don't already know about current events.

However, none of that can be done until we've completed the tasks at hand and traveled back to Hyrwl to discover what information we actually need... and, by that point, who's to say WHAT we'll be up to (as our objectives seem to change frequently).

There's my .02 on the issue...


----------



## Laurel (Aug 4, 2004)

but if we knew just how much Farathier was worth we could hog tie him and trade him in for cash- obviously disguising ourselves first.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 4, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> but if we knew just how much Farathier was worth we could hog tie him and trade him in for cash- obviously disguising ourselves first.



 HAH!  That would be hilarious!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 4, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> but if we knew just how much Farathier was worth we could hog tie him and trade him in for cash- obviously disguising ourselves first.



 Ooooo, good one!


----------



## Laurel (Aug 5, 2004)

I then I can take yoshi making sure he is not taken to the dark side...


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 5, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> If, indeed, the king were to change our status, we'd know. He knows where our base is and any information such as that is bound to make it our way pretty quickly.



 Not necessarily.  The king isn't likely to send you a letter informing you of your change in status.  The only way you'd get an inkling is when more bounty hunters showed up to try to capture/kill you.  Furthermore, the King's not stupid.  He may hire someone specifically, rather than just kick up the rewards on the posters.  



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> At some point in the future--probably not any time too soon-- it would be nice to go people watch/gather information about the goings on in the world. We are pretty cut off. But, any *big* info, I'm sure that we'll get through Jaine's connections with the outside world.
> Additionally, we did just meet up with an army of dwarves that may have some information that we desire-- they are a secluded people, in general but, I'm sure they can tell us something we don't already know about current events.



Maybe, but perhaps not a lot.  You can't depend on a people that have been focused on YOUR conflict to have had a lot of time and inclination to observe other conflicts, record, and report.  The Dwarves will know what was happening in THEIR city.  Beyond that, any information they'll have will more than likely be kinda sparse.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Not necessarily.  The king isn't likely to send you a letter informing you of your change in status.  The only way you'd get an inkling is when more bounty hunters showed up to try to capture/kill you.  Furthermore, the King's not stupid.  He may hire someone specifically, rather than just kick up the rewards on the posters.




I do note that the king's not stupid... however, if something had changed about our status with the king, I think that particular information would find it's way back to us.
We can't exactly get any *more* wanted... and, if the king say, revoked the wanted-ness of us, I figure that we would, eventually find out.  That seems to be information he would *want* us to have.

If, indeed, he were to hire someone specifically I doubt that we are going to get that information by visiting random city watches or listening to the hustle and bustle in the streets.  If the king has hired someone specifically, we'd probably need to get that information from the king himself or one of his closests buddies... unfortunately (in at least some ways) we have a tendency to kill them or they are not very forthcoming with information.



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Maybe, but perhaps not a lot.  You can't depend on a people that have been focused on YOUR conflict to have had a lot of time and inclination to observe other conflicts, record, and report.  The Dwarves will know what was happening in THEIR city.  Beyond that, any information they'll have will more than likely be kinda sparse.




I don't expect them to know a lot-- but, the same can be said for pretty much every villiage and town we could potentially visit.  They will know about their town and their goings-on... which is another reason that I don't think we need to worry about teleporting out to gather info any time in the near future.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 5, 2004)

Okay on finding out about our wantedness- yes, we are wanted, does it matter how much we are worth?  Concidering we just had this huge battle under the direction of a Queen Jaine I don't think the king's going to be lifting the bounty on us anytime soon.

We will be going to other cities, big cities, most likely in the near future (possibly).  We can ask the monks her at the monostary what they have heard about us, and get a little bit that way.  I know it won't be much, and could even just be 'your wanted'  but we have not even tried asking them.  We could ask them about us specifically, Jaine, and anyone else.

Yes, our wantedness may be something interesting to find out, but personally, I don't see this as something that really affects what we should be doing or where we are to go next.

If someone has strong feelings on why we should be gaining this knowledge right now- please explain.  I could very easily be missing something.
Otherwise, good idea gertie and if we manage it cool we get the info, but not worth a side trip.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay on finding out about our wantedness- yes, we are wanted, does it matter how much we are worth?  Concidering we just had this huge battle under the direction of a Queen Jaine I don't think the king's going to be lifting the bounty on us anytime soon.
> 
> We will be going to other cities, big cities, most likely in the near future (possibly).  We can ask the monks her at the monostary what they have heard about us, and get a little bit that way.  I know it won't be much, and could even just be 'your wanted'  but we have not even tried asking them.  We could ask them about us specifically, Jaine, and anyone else.
> 
> ...



 To be fair, I'm just not sure it's worth a side trip _right now_.  Once you're back in Hyrwl, it may be worth it to take a few days and scout out these places. 

It's not like this will be resource intensive, or anything.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 5, 2004)

um... that's why I said:







			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> If someone has strong feelings on why we should be gaining this knowledge right now- please explain.



And though it may not tax resources it does tax time, I just would like if we do this we combine it with some other reason for being in that city.  We teleport to silvanus gather the info, and get a spiritblade or some such.  Just teleporting to a random city and back out seems... I don't know... time consuming, wasteful of magic.

And just so I am clear here the idea of gathering this info. is worth merit, just right this second not what we should run off and do.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 5, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Otherwise, good idea gertie and if we manage it cool we get the info, but not worth a side trip.




I agree totally.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 5, 2004)

*blades, blades*

_Going for the blade?_
What we know (not all inclusive): There are tunnels under the city.  The ones under the monastary and the ones under the library do not appear to be connected.  
The stone gem that Xath now wears sparkled brighter in the library, and it acts like a hot/cold seeker of the magic blades.  So the blade is closer to/in the library. So we have to get back into the library, thus we have to get by/through the mages.  Correct?

_Was a plan ever furthered on getting rid of the mages?_
Last I heard as possibility: Someone posses as Selura, Penny (with help) makes a forged document with a false prophesy on it (+30 something before rolling).  Gives that to mages to take some place to someone(?) while we as her 'charmed'  servants remain there protecting her/helping her/etc.????.....????......?????....


----------



## Archon (Aug 5, 2004)

*brood*

If Fairweather is going to Hyrwl and she wants company Archonus would go with her but she'll have to go talk with him. He's trying to avoid the circle as of late.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 5, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> If Fairweather is going to Hyrwl and she wants company Archonus would go with her but she'll have to go talk with him. He's trying to avoid the circle as of late.



 It's pretty hard to avoid the circle when they can read your mind.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 5, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> If Fairweather is going to Hyrwl and she wants company Archonus would go with her but she'll have to go talk with him. He's trying to avoid the circle as of late.



Two things:
One, is the above something new? (just kidding )

Two, I think Justice needs to pick who she wants to go and ask them, since otherwise we all seem willing to go.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 5, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> It's pretty hard to avoid the circle when they can read your mind.



He creates a 30 foot perimeter around himself of which the circle can not enter.  Or just goes to the roof (yes, clouds and thunder and all) which is 30 feet away.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> _Going for the blade?_
> What we know (not all inclusive): There are tunnels under the city.  The ones under the monastary and the ones under the library do not appear to be connected.
> The stone gem that Xath now wears sparkled brighter in the library, and it acts like a hot/cold seeker of the magic blades.  So the blade is closer to/in the library. So we have to get back into the library, thus we have to get by/through the mages.  Correct?
> 
> ...



 Justice is going back to Hyrwl in order to try to find a way to keep some of the mages prisoner...  she doesn't know anything about Sigils of Anti-Magic... but Randall and Cawys should.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> He creates a 30 foot perimeter around himself of which the circle can not enter.  Or just goes to the roof (yes, clouds and thunder and all) which is 30 feet away.



 I know it's POSSIBLE for him to go brood.  I'm just saying that he'd have to be pretty determined to make a go of it, now.  And, as we discussed, there's no belltowers for convenient brooding at the monastery.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

*The First Cathedral of the Light*

Make the white stone red, and you're looking at the Apectan Cathedral in Caer Melyn.  Just to help you visualize...


----------



## Xath (Aug 6, 2004)

There are plenty of brooding towers in that picture.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

There are towers on the cathedral.  None on the monastery.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

Posted on the in-character thread.  I recommend that you give it a look.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 6, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Justice is going back to Hyrwl in order to try to find a way to keep some of the mages prisoner... she doesn't know anything about Sigils of Anti-Magic... but Randall and Cawys should.



Cool, like I said above though- Justice needs to just pick who or everyone to go with her.  I think everyone would go back with her if she asked, especially knowing how annoying Cawys can be.  If you could, though, post who she takes/asks to go with her and when this is happening  
Thanks!


----------



## Laurel (Aug 6, 2004)

*professional teachers pet*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Posted on the in-character thread. I recommend that you give it a look.



hehehehehe-- yes, it makes for entertaining reading, good job Kennon yet again!


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

The compliment feeds my ego.  My writing, on the other hand, subsists on a diet of wild ego, which it must hunt, kill, and dress on its own.  You see - compliments feed the great circle of life!  

...or writing.  Whatever.  The point is, flattery gets you everywhere.


----------



## Xath (Aug 6, 2004)

But there are posted signs all over the place that say in big red letters

*"Do NOT Feed the Egos"*

Otherwise the egos will not maintain the appropriate levels of hubris. 

Also, posted below the ego signs are signs that say

"Do not grapple the pandas."


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Cool, like I said above though- Justice needs to just pick who or everyone to go with her.  I think everyone would go back with her if she asked, especially knowing how annoying Cawys can be.  If you could, though, post who she takes/asks to go with her and when this is happening
> Thanks!



 She really just needs someone to watch her back if, on the off chance, she is alone with Cawys.  I am hoping that Randall and Preston will be there with her..

So, really, it doesn't matter.  Whoever wants to come back can... she would specifically ask Archonus and Kaereth, though.


----------



## Xath (Aug 6, 2004)

Justice, Xath, and Neo-L'Aurel could go talk to Cawys.  He might have a heart attack from all the hotness.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Justice, Xath, and Neo-L'Aurel could go talk to Cawys.  He might have a heart attack from all the hotness.



 Well, it would be combination of hotness and cholesterol.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 6, 2004)

*hmmmm.... doughnuts*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Well, it would be combination of hotness and cholesterol.



Xath and Justice = hotness

L'Aurel even as Neo-L'aurel = Cholesterol


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Xath and Justice = hotness
> 
> L'Aurel even as Neo-L'aurel = Cholesterol



 Not true.  You are definitely pretty--maybe even beautiful.  On the other hand, you're probably just not quite as good at hiding the scaly patches as Selura was.  And those are mega-creepy.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 6, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> She really just needs someone to watch her back if, on the off chance, she is alone with Cawys. I am hoping that Randall and Preston will be there with her..
> So, really, it doesn't matter. Whoever wants to come back can... she would specifically ask Archonus and Kaereth, though.



Let's all go then!  
Actually, for time/planning why not just have it be _Archon, Justice and Xath _or just _Archonus and Justice_ going- then you guys can roleplay it out and we don't have to wait two weeks to find out the results.... just a thought though, and I don't think anyone would be upset at being left out here so long it gets posted or somethin' for info. purposes.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 6, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Not true. You are definitely pretty--maybe even beautiful. On the other hand, you're probably just not quite as good at hiding the scaly patches as Selura was. And those are mega-creepy.



Exactly you put neo-L'Aurel in a room of common people and she is above average- pretty and personality.  But you put her in a room with Penny, Xath, Jaine, and Justice and well.... yeah....
You mean scales aren't concidered exotic and sexy?   hehehehehe I think her score should be going to other direction


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Let's all go then!
> Actually, for time/planning why not just have it be _Archon, Justice and Xath _or just _Archonus and Justice_ going- then you guys can roleplay it out and we don't have to wait two weeks to find out the results.... just a thought though, and I don't think anyone would be upset at being left out here so long it gets posted or somethin' for info. purposes.



 I was hoping to have the big green guy there... for the intimidating huge muscles... and the smashing of Cawys' head if necessary.

And, Xath/Gertie is not going back so long as she doesn't have to... at least that's the impression I've gotten of late..

Is that incorrect, Gertie?


----------



## Laurel (Aug 6, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I was hoping to have the big green guy there... for the intimidating huge muscles... and the smashing of Cawys' head if necessary.
> And, Xath/Gertie is not going back so long as she doesn't have to... at least that's the impression I've gotten of late..
> Is that incorrect, Gertie?



Okay whatever- just giving suggestions.  As a head's up, if we do it day of game with everyone sitting around then Arfin and L'Aurel may tag along- otherwise have fun whoever, whenever.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 6, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Okay whatever- just giving suggestions.  As a head's up, if we do it day of game with everyone sitting around then Arfin and L'Aurel may tag along- otherwise have fun whoever, whenever.



 It all depends on what order we end up doing things in...

If we decide to go attempt to get the blade right away, I won't even be heading back until after that trip... 
Unless the group thinks I have time to go do it before we go dungeon-crawling.


----------



## Xath (Aug 6, 2004)

Xath would rather not return to the palace anytime soon.  However, Cawys does not live in the palace, and if it's just a jaunt to see him, Xath doesn't mind.  She may know Cawys better than anyone in the party....fortunately not in the biblical sense.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 6, 2004)

not quite a double post... but, something like it.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 6, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Xath would rather not return to the palace anytime soon.  However, Cawys does not live in the palace, and if it's just a jaunt to see him, Xath doesn't mind.  She may know Cawys better than anyone in the party....fortunately not in the biblical sense.



 I was planning the visit for the palace... some place with tea and all of the minds I can gather to question and brainstorm.

It will NOT be at Cawys' hut.


----------



## Archon (Aug 6, 2004)

*The Hotties of Aeres*

there are some mega hotties in our little revolution. and i'm surprised the aren't hordes of "Circle of the Phoenix" fan-boys waiting outside the palace for our mega babes. and hey, if it comes down to looks, the Falcon Kingdom versus the Army of the Phoenix we'll win hands down.
as for Cawys, all those women in his room would just boost his ego not kill him. he's that full of himself that he'd think they we're all there for him.


----------



## Xath (Aug 6, 2004)

And who's to say that all the ladies aren't showing up for Cawys?  I know Xath is.

...


----------



## Archon (Aug 6, 2004)

*if that's how it's going to be...*

.....
I see how it is.
no, that's cool. if being with Cawys makes Xath happy, Archon won't fight it. he just wants what's best for her.
.....


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 6, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I was planning the visit for the palace... some place with tea and all of the minds I can gather to question and brainstorm.
> 
> It will NOT be at Cawys' hut.



Maybe Link's tree? Although the Duke technically has his residence there, it can be a de facto meeting place or residence for the circle, since the Duke spends most of his time in the palace, and you spend most of your time travelling...?


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 9, 2004)

*Dreams*

It's that time again.  

Since, in-game, we're approaching another REM cycle, it's time for dream trading.  Write me a couple of paragraphs, and I will distribute them as per normal.  

However, this time, I'd like it if you can give me a list with your guesses as to who's dream(s) you've already gotten.  Although I want to keep it random, I also want to spread the information around as much as possible.  

Just like before, no dream copies.  Make this something that's at least a *little* different than any of the other dreams you've had.  

Thanks gang!


----------



## Archon (Aug 12, 2004)

*buttons*

got it. i'm on it. one more dream comming right up. 
by-the-way, D-town is awesome, but it's missing one HUGE thing....
you guys.  
missin the crew butt-tons, 
The Rare Spotted Michols

p.s. "butt-tons", "buttons"...yeah. think about it.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 12, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> got it. i'm on it. one more dream comming right up.
> by-the-way, D-town is awesome, but it's missing one HUGE thing....
> you guys.
> missin the crew butt-tons,
> ...



 *laughing*  The part of the gang left in Alexandria misses you, too.  

But we'll see you at about this time in 6 days.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 12, 2004)

On another note, when we hit post 500, we need to move into KoA OOC thread number 3.  I don't want to chance breaking ENworld, again.   Only 77 posts to go in this thread!


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 16, 2004)

En World, after a weekend of absence, is back online!  WHOOOOO!


----------



## Xath (Aug 23, 2004)

Ok, everyone is back from vacation.  It's time to start the posts again.  

Hooray for August 28th!


----------



## Laurel (Aug 23, 2004)

Yeah I can stop doing work again   ....even one of my co-workers went to GenCon  

KoA-Game this weekend? For game and finding how everyone's various trips went


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 23, 2004)

Really?  Who went to Gen Con that you work with?  

I am, of course, up for some KoA gaming action.  It's been a long break, and I'm looking forward to getting back into the routine of playing!  WHOOOOO!  

I don't think I have any questions of substance re: the game.  However I do have a single recommendation that I cannot stress enough: Please, make a plan.  

Also, I have new toys.  WHOOOO!


----------



## Xath (Aug 23, 2004)

Did everyone send in a dream?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 23, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Did everyone send in a dream?



 Not yet.  No time-- busy GenConing.

Also-- Is Greg's interview at Bearing Point this Saturday... if so, how will that change our game planning?


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 23, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Did everyone send in a dream?



 I don't remember.  If you already sent me a dream, please resubmit it to me.  If you haven't sent one, please do so soon, so I can get them distributed.


----------



## Archon (Aug 24, 2004)

*plans....*

...yeah, so....a plan.
we have L'Aurel back so all we need now in this town is the Blade right?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

double post


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

Archon said:
			
		

> ...yeah, so....a plan.
> we have L'Aurel back so all we need now in this town is the Blade right?



 There are a bunch of options for how exactly to get that blade, though.

I think, the foremost thing we need to be thinking about, is how to get around the mages... sure we have L'Aurel in Sulora's body... but, L'Aurel doesn't have a lot of skill in bluff and diplomacy... so, the less talking she does to the people that were, at one point in time, her minions, the better.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Also-- Is Greg's interview at Bearing Point this Saturday... if so, how will that change our game planning?



Nope his interview is today-- crossing of fingers-- here's to hoping he gets the good vibe by the time he leaves 

On the other hand, there are other commitments Greg and I have Saturday  

But Friday and Sunday are open


----------



## Laurel (Aug 24, 2004)

*plan.... we don't need no stinking plan*

Yep only thing left for the city is the blade. Just to figure time tables I assume with the whole dream thing we are going in the morning?

Since there is no passage we know of besides the doors into the library where the necklace sparkled the most we get to walk in. or something.

Though neo-L'Aurel doesn't have the +60 whatever bluff and diplomacy some do, she does have a ranks in it from back in the day when she had a negative cha. bonus--which has improved to a possitive number since.

Easy bluff:: We forge a prophesy. If they ask that was what kept Selura away- her new friends (you all since your 'charmed') told her where to find it. We then give the fake prophesey to some of the mages to take to king or someone else, while others keep looking for more stuff. Her new charges (you all) have more information for her to follow up on.

Not too complex and if they try true seeing or anything magical it will just show the truth -Selura stands infront of them.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 24, 2004)

*Fun with creepy bad smelling men*

Is Justice still planning a trip back to hywrl to talk to Caweys? (Or however his name is spelled)


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Nope his interview is today-- crossing of fingers-- here's to hoping he gets the good vibe by the time he leaves
> 
> On the other hand, there are other commitments Greg and I have Saturday
> 
> But Friday and Sunday are open



 GOOD LUCK GREG!


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

*This is really to everybody, not just Kat...*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Yep only thing left for the city is the blade. Just to figure time tables I assume with the whole dream thing we are going in the morning?



 Essentially, all the dream thing means is that you have to go *after* the morning, not necessarily right away.  Of course, time is an issue, so you won't want to dilly-dally for too long.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Since there is no passage we know of besides the doors into the library where the necklace sparkled the most we get to walk in. or something.



Walking right in is fine, especially with L'Aurel's current countenence.  However, it will still be VERY important that you all act in a manner that doesn't make it immediately apparent that Selura is no longer really Selura.  Even talon redmages don't just toss magic around for fun.  If they think something is amiss, they'll use it to check out whatever has raised their suspicions, but even they can't afford to magically scan every Tom, Dick, Jane, and Harry for magic/illusions/whatever.  

On the other hand, walking in with weapons barely concealed around a discombobulated woman who's supposed to be a cold, calculating evil servant of the king is not something they're going to just ignore.  If you RP well, and come up with a good bluff or con, I'll give you a bonus to the roll(s).  Under no circumstances are you to depend totally on the numbers.  Xath's bonus may be huge, but if the bluff is (in my opinion) retarded, then no one is going to believe it anyway.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Though neo-L'Aurel doesn't have the +60 whatever bluff and diplomacy some do, she does have a ranks in it from back in the day when she had a negative cha. bonus--which has improved to a possitive number since.
> 
> Easy bluff:: We forge a prophesy. If they ask that was what kept Selura away- her new friends (you all since your 'charmed') told her where to find it. We then give the fake prophesey to some of the mages to take to king or someone else, while others keep looking for more stuff. Her new charges (you all) have more information for her to follow up on.



  This is generally a pretty good start, but don't expect a false prophecy to keep the mages away forever.  Carefully consider where you're going to claim the prophecy came from, and what you will put in it.  Essentially, once it gets in the hands of a high-level cleric, the ruse is over...just keep it in mind.  It still *should* serve to buy you some time.  

Just my initial thoughts as I get back into the KoA mode.


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## Laurel (Aug 24, 2004)

*just some more ideas/thoughts thrown out there*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> This is generally a pretty good start, but don't expect a false prophecy to keep the mages away forever. Carefully consider where you're going to claim the prophecy came from, and what you will put in it. Essentially, once it gets in the hands of a high-level cleric, the ruse is over...just keep it in mind. It still *should* serve to buy you some time.



My thought was not to keep them away forever- just get rid of a few right now. The prophecy once out of our hands is more another  at the king then anything.

Big downside- the king very easily could start to put two and two together and realize we or someone of the phoenix group has the blade.... on a plus our worth in gold would go up 

Prophecy found in Link's tree house, written by ? (this would also give a reason as to why the traitors have it and why they came to Caer Melyn) Link's daughter would also most likely know this is false, but again this works for getting rid of some of the mages for a time.

When/If we get the blade, do we just carry it around with us and hope we can keep it from Tain and his minions?


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## Archon (Aug 24, 2004)

*nod*
......
yes.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> My thought was not to keep them away forever- just get rid of a few right now. The prophecy once out of our hands is more another  at the king then anything.




Having a prophecy doesn't guarantee that they will be out of our hair at all.  Assuming they find it and believe it, we still need to convince them to leave without their leader in order to continue along our path of finding the blade.

However, distraction is a very good thing.  We need to remember that the Red Mages are simply doing their jobs.  They cannot be assumed to be Evil like the Draconids can.  We can't just kill them and throw them in a dark hole... and, if anyone starts doing any sort of lethal damage to any non-evil individuals while Justice is around, there will be Hell to pay.

We need a plan along with a series of back up plans to get them out of our hair before we can go through with our quest for the blade... I have some suggestions... and, I will post them in the near future...



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> When/If we get the blade, do we just carry it around with us and hope we can keep it from Tain and his minions




I don't think that carrying it around is a good idea, at all (however, I could be convinced it is a good idea).  In a perfect world, I'd say, we find a place to keep it safe and keep it secret.  There are a few options for that...
-We can keep it in Hyrwl.
-We can store it at the Isle of Mourning
-Ask the Blue Star to keep it for us for now
-Take it to Sylvanus
-Pulling stuff out of thin air, here....

Kennon, Justice sends a note to Preston, Randall, and The Duke that reads:

_If we happen to find one of the spirit blades, where would you suggest we keep it?  

Yours in the Light, Justice_


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## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> My thought was not to keep them away forever- just get rid of a few right now. The prophecy once out of our hands is more another  at the king then anything.






			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Big downside- the king very easily could start to put two and two together and realize we or someone of the phoenix group has the blade.... on a plus our worth in gold would go up



 Very true. You need to be very careful as you craft your lies. Too much truth in them and you may give the King a set of clues he didn't have, before. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Prophecy found in Link's tree house, written by ? (this would also give a reason as to why the traitors have it and why they came to Caer Melyn) Link's daughter would also most likely know this is false, but again this works for getting rid of some of the mages for a time.



 The Prophecy found in Link's small library was theoretically written by a man named _Raith Truthbearer_. At the very least, that's the name on the prophecy, which appears to simply be the last few pages of a book, torn and hidden in another by either Link or his daughter. According to the pages, the prophecy was put to paper in Citadel Refuge, but if you doubt its validity, then it really could have been written anywhere. 




			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> When/If we get the blade, do we just carry it around with us and hope we can keep it from Tain and his minions?



 I can't answer this one for you. I sincerely hope that this is not what Mik was *nodding* to, earlier. Keeping the blade will take some planning. As much as the King probably wants you all dead or captured, he'd rather have the blade...and stealing an object is going to be a lot easier than killing you all. So, put some thought into this one.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

Here are my thoughts:

We wait to go blade hunting for a bit while some tasks are completed in Hyrwl...
Those tasks being:

The construction of a stone 3-walled room that is painted Mithril Silver (paint compliments of Freckles) to match what would be a "normal" room in Caer Albion.

The creation of Sigils of Anti-Magic that will be placed in that 3-walled room...

Then, the fun beings!!!

Step 1: Prophecy
We create the best faux prophecy we can.
Step 1a: We plant the prophecy in a place that is not _too_ obvious and wait for it to be found.
_or_
Step 1b: We make it seem that Sulora has *charmed* it out of us.

Step 2: We're leaving!
Upon "finding" the amazing prophecy, Surlora needs to round up her minions and convince them that it is time to leave.

Step 3: Come on in, the water's nice!!
Through using a Gate spell, we open a Gate for Sulora's friends just outside of the 3-walled, Anti-Magiced stone room.  From our side, it just looks like a normal room.  The spell itself has a force that pulls people through-- it's really very neat.  So, they step into the cozy room back home... and into the Anti-Magic area.

Step 4: FOOLED YOU!
Just as the last of the magic users dashes through the Gate, we block them in with a 4th wall of stone.

Step 5: PROFIT!
We are left with no Talon Red Mages to hamper our quest for the blade or waste our flavor... and a pretty bitchin' prison for spell casters.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Very true. You need to be very careful as you craft your lies. Too much truth in them and you may give the King a set of clues he didn't have, before.
> 
> The Prophecy found in Link's small library was theoretically written by a man named _Raith Truthbearer_. At the very least, that's the name on the prophecy, which appears to simply be the last few pages of a book, torn and hidden in another by either Link or his daughter. According to the pages, the prophecy was put to paper in Citadel Refuge, but if you doubt its validity, then it really could have been written anywhere.
> 
> I can't answer this one for you. I sincerely hope that this is not what Mik was *nodding* to, earlier. Keeping the blade will take some planning. As much as the King probably wants you all dead or captured, he'd rather have the blade...and stealing an object is going to be a lot easier than killing you all. So, put some thought into this one.



 
I ment this more as an option of where to say our made up prophesy is from- not questioning where or who anything about the prophesy Xath found in Link's tree.
I was trying to say in our explaining to the mages about the prophesy, whoever is dealing with them can say it was found in Link's tree that's why they had it now stop asking questions.  This would also make sure another area doesn't come under attack with the king searching for more clues there.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Having a prophecy doesn't guarantee that they will be out of our hair at all. Assuming they find it and believe it, we still need to convince them to leave without their leader in order to continue along our path of finding the blade.



 Alternatively, you just need to convince them to leave you alone for a while, allowing you to go look while they're working on something else.  



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> However, distraction is a very good thing. We need to remember that the Red Mages are simply doing their jobs. They cannot be assumed to be Evil like the Draconids can. We can't just kill them and throw them in a dark hole... and, if anyone starts doing any sort of lethal damage to any non-evil individuals while Justice is around, there will be Hell to pay.



The DM concurs.  It's okay to kill armed ogre magi and people who are actively trying to kill you, assuming that they are congizant of the evil that they are abetting.  Redmages, unfortunately, can't know that by helping their lawful King find something that _he says will help them repel the draconid army _is actually doing the opposite.  As such, keep them alive to the best of your ability. That being said, you don't have to let them kill you.  Just try to use nonlethal force whenever possible.  



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I don't think that carrying it around is a good idea, at all (however, I could be convinced it is a good idea). In a perfect world, I'd say, we find a place to keep it safe and keep it secret. There are a few options for that...
> -We can keep it in Hyrwl.
> -We can store it at the Isle of Mourning
> -Ask the Blue Star to keep it for us for now
> ...



 Just a general note on this:  wherever the blade is is a target, and will recieve a disproportionate share of the King's attentions.  



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Kennon, Justice sends a note to Preston, Randall, and The Duke that reads:
> 
> _If we happen to find one of the spirit blades, where would you suggest we keep it?
> 
> Yours in the Light, Justice_



_Somewhere safe.  Sadly, I cannot be sure where such a place is.  Though our city has held for now, we are already weakened a great deal.  Unless we can mask its presence entirely, Hyrwl and New Oceanus seem an unlikely place for the blade(s) to remain safe.  _

_Have you any idea how the king has located the ones he has apparently found?_


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

Queen_Doppelpopolis said:
			
		

> Step 1: Prophecy
> We create the best faux prophecy we can.
> Step 1a: We plant the prophecy in a place that is not _too_ obvious and wait for it to be found.
> _or_
> ...




Other than the fact that this could be expensive, it's a really good plan. You probably need a roof on the room, as well. Also, a single sigil room is only 20 ft/20 ft. For every "section" beyond that, you'd have to buy/build the sigils again.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Having a prophecy doesn't guarantee that they will be out of our hair at all. Assuming they find it and believe it, we still need to convince them to leave without their leader in order to continue along our path of finding the blade.
> 
> We need a plan along with a series of back up plans to get them out of our hair before we can go through with our quest for the blade... I have some suggestions... and, I will post them in the near future...



Plan A- Selura or whoever just orders them to keep working- to keep searching-- Selura wants to take her new toys into the basement and no one should both her no matter what screams they hear... she wants to get... reaquanted with her old _friends_.

plan B- We GIVE them the prophesey or more accurately Selura goes up to one or a group of them that she got this from you all, but have to make sure it is real before passing it up the chain.  Or since Selura most likely didn't tell them much about why they were there just send half the group off to take fake prophesy directly to the king. 
If they get really pushy the prophesey came from Selura's new friends -you all that she has charmed- found in the old dead elf's tree (Link's tree). 
reason the rebels came to Caer Melyn in the first place searching for the blade the prophesey talks of.
Selura is staying to find more info can't trust these underlings also reason she would want half the group to go taking one scroll with them.


Looking at the prison idea:
How long would the wall/sigil/magic cell thing take to build/construct, there is only so long Selura can go missing, and we can just hang around.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

*crap!*

Double Post.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

Triple Frickin' Post!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Other than the fact that this could be expensive, it's a really good plan.  You probably need a roof on the room, as well.  Also, a single sigil room is only 20 ft/20 ft.  For every "section" beyond that, you'd have to buy/build the sigils again.



 Well-- obviously it's going to have a roof.  But, when we build it, it can only have 3 walls... otherwise, there's no way to use the Gate spell.

And, yes, it will be very expensive... but, I think that what is gained is worth the cost.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Other than the fact that this could be expensive, it's a really good plan. You probably need a roof on the room, as well. Also, a single sigil room is only 20 ft/20 ft. For every "section" beyond that, you'd have to buy/build the sigils again.



....and a door....

How many mages are we guessing there are?


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Plan A- Selura or whoever just orders them to keep working- to keep searching-- Selura wants to take her new toys into the basement and no one should both her no matter what screams they hear... she wants to get... reaquanted with her old _friends_.
> 
> plan B- We GIVE them the prophesey or more accurately Selura goes up to one or a group of them that she got this from you all, but have to make sure it is real before passing it up the chain.  Or since Selura most likely didn't tell them much about why they were there just send half the group off to take fake prophesy directly to the king.
> If they get really pushy the prophesey came from Selura's new friends -you all that she has charmed- found in the old dead elf's tree (Link's tree).
> ...




I see the prophecy as a catalyst for SOMETHING... so, we need to use it to our best advantage... it needs to be a reason for the Red Mages to do something.

Telling them anything about Link's tree is probably a bad idea.  The king and his friends already know that we (meaining our rebellion) is centered in Hyrwl... let's not give them any more information about what's going on there.



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Looking at the prison idea:
> How long would the wall/sigil/magic cell thing take to build/construct, there is only so long Selura can go missing, and we can just hang around.



[/QUOTE]

You don't need to go missing... go hang out at the library and do what you'd like... or head to the library and tell them that you'll be gone for a bit... and not to question it.

Not sure how long it will take... have to look that up tonight.  Really, in game, Justice could have comissioned the making of the Sigils shortly after she started sending notes to Randall...

I'll look up how long they'll take to make when I get home..

As for the room itself-- not long at all... just need a couple wall of stone spells and some creative painting...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> ....and a door....
> 
> How many mages are we guessing there are?



 Kennon has said "a couple dozen"..

And, for the moment, we don't need a door... we can use pass wall or a portable hole if we need to get in or out.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Kennon has said "a couple dozen"..
> 
> And, for the moment, we don't need a door... we can use pass wall or a portable hole if we need to get in or out.



 But, a door would be nice!



(I just want an excuse to have a Portable Hole!)


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Kennon has said "a couple dozen"..
> 
> And, for the moment, we don't need a door... we can use pass wall or a portable hole if we need to get in or out.



 I said a few dozen, which could be a couple dozen, but might be more.  

As for getting in and out of the room, you can't use passwall or portable holes because the magic wouldn't work inside the room...it would fail milimeters before you got through.  When you need to let them out, you're going to have to break down a wall, or something...


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 24, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I said a few dozen, which could be a couple dozen, but might be more.
> 
> As for getting in and out of the room, you can't use passwall or portable holes because the magic wouldn't work inside the room...it would fail milimeters before you got through.  When you need to let them out, you're going to have to break down a wall, or something...



 FINE!  

Then, we'll build a door, too!

Just so everyone knows... Justice wants a portable hole for her birthday.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 24, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> FINE!
> 
> Then, we'll build a door, too!
> 
> Just so everyone knows... Justice wants a portable hole for her birthday.



 Fair enough.


----------



## Archon (Aug 24, 2004)

*birthday gifts.*



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> FINE!
> 
> Then, we'll build a door, too!
> 
> Just so everyone knows... Justice wants a portable hole for her birthday.




and Archon wants a Book on Exercise.


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

And now for a note on space, as Liz seems to have recieved at least tacit approval for the plan to gate the redmages into a magicless prison:  

Each sigil of anti-magic covers a space equivalent to 20'x20'.  In game terms, that's 4 squares by 4 squares (16 total).  At any given time, 2 medium sized creatures can choose to occupy the same square as long as they are not in combat, so you can fit 32 redmages in a single room fitted out with a sigil of antimagic.  This is fine for a short period of time.  They can stand huddled in the room for a few hours.  

However, if their stay is meant to be somewhat permanent, these conditions are far from humane.  In that case, every medium sized creature would require at least 10 square feet to call his or her own.  This gives you space for 4 mages/sigil, and would require you to purchase/build 8 rooms so equipped in order to cover that same 32 mages.*

Some food for thought.  I don't have the Stronghold Builders Guide with me electronically or otherwise, so I can't tell you how much each sigil costs.

*There may be more or less than 32 mages.  That is *not* a hint.


----------



## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

*-I do all of this via IC thread too if needed-*

I still think simpliest is best.... so I for one need a little more info. on cost and convincing for the imprisonment plan.

First thoughts, concerns::
We really need to think about the moral issues of imprisonment.  Unfortunately, I am not a fan of imprisoning completely innocent people.  They are following orders, and they think they are helping innocents, helping to save the kingdom.  And we are going to throw them into a small cramped space for possibly hours, just to get them out of the way.  

Someone had also discussed converting them to our side- if a group of known criminals tricked me into a cramped dark space taking away all my weapons, and then asked if I believed they were good people... um... I think it would take a whole freekin' lot just to undo the first impression they were giving me.

And what does it show to other people?  We are okay with wrongfully imprisoning someone just to get them conviently out of the way.  There not even POW. 

And there has to be a door, we can't throw them in a room with no air, no light, no water, no way to get food or relieve themselves.  even if it does give them a slight chance of escaping without these we pass into the realm of evil captors.

We are talking about tricking these people into a cramped small space for who knows how many hours while we get the sword, when there are other ways to get rid of them.

Beyond these there really is no back-up plan, no plan B.  Plan B is just to attack?

If we do go through with this plan we can NOT keep them in this prison past us getting the sword out of Caer Albion.  To keep them imprisoned past that point is just wrong.  If we go with this plan those that we manage to convert to our cause can stay the rest will get the option to go/leave unharmed.

For a time when someone has a book: how much is this whole project going to cost?  Where do our current finances stand?


----------



## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

*Just a Joke*



			
				Archon said:
			
		

> and Archon wants a Book on Exercise.



We can spend and extra few hours/days in the library looking for one if you want... I'm sure no one would notice.... Actually I have it, Selura sends two of the mages off to find Archon's book while we do whatever to the rest


----------



## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

*Playing the Devil's Advocate...*



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> We really need to think about the moral issues of imprisonment. Unfortunately, I am not a fan of imprisoning completely innocent people. They are following orders, and they think they are helping innocents, helping to save the kingdom. And we are going to throw them into a small cramped space for possibly hours, just to get them out of the way.



Although imprisoning innocents for hours at a time can hardly be seen as the most desirable of all possible ends, what you really need to do is look at the alternatives.

The longer they're free, the longer they have to figure out the ruse you're going to be participating in.  Once they do, they will undoubtedly try to kill or capture you.  Once _that _happens, you all will (of course) retaliate in order to defend yourselves, likely ending in the deaths of some of the red mages in question.  Even when you're trying to get someone alive, an unforeseen accident can result in their deaths.  Selura is a good example of this.  

Although pushing them into a cramped space for several hours is probably not going to be fun for them, it beats the hell out of dying.  It's as merciful as the situation will allow, fast, and it effectively neutralizes *all* of the redmages at once, rather than dealing with them one or two at a time, constantly exposing your lies to ever more scrutiny.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Someone had also discussed converting them to our side- if a group of known criminals tricked me into a cramped dark space taking away all my weapons, and then asked if I believed they were good people... um... I think it would take a whole freekin' lot just to undo the first impression they were giving me.



Although you're going to have little or no chance of converting the redmages from the cell in which you put them, keeping the vast majority of them alive and then *letting them go* when you've completed your task seems likely to at least get them talking about you.  

Although you all know you're good people, the kingdom at large has very little evidence that you are anything more than indiscriminate murderers.  You've killed lawful bounty hunters, Talons, King's soldiers, along with the thousands of undead and draconids you've dispatched.  You're probably not going to get them to join you, regardless.  By leaving them alive and conscious, at least they'll have a story to take with them that could counter tales of rebel brutality.     



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> And what does it show to other people? We are okay with wrongfully imprisoning someone just to get them conviently out of the way. There not even POW.



 Once more, it's all a matter of context.  Sure, 3-4 hours in a crowded cell sucks, but it can't be worse than dying.   



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> And there has to be a door, we can't throw them in a room with no air, no light, no water, no way to get food or relieve themselves. even if it does give them a slight chance of escaping without these we pass into the realm of evil captors.



Although there will undoubtedly just have to be chamber pots in the cell, there does need to be a door, unless you're going to bust down a wall every time you hope to let one or two out.  

As I stated above, I don't see a problem with imprisoning them longer, as long as they have more space.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> We are talking about tricking these people into a cramped small space for who knows how many hours while we get the sword, when there are other ways to get rid of them.



I'm happy to entertain another idea, I'm just not sure that there is another idea that neutralizes the redmages without risking their deaths, and the success of the mission.  Ideally, you all would be fighting over who's plan you should follow...but as far as I can tell, this is the only semi-complete plan on the market?



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> Beyond these there really is no back-up plan, no plan B. Plan B is just to attack?



If there is a plan B, I have not heard it, nor have I heard of.  I just rolled a survival check, and since I  have the _track _feat, I can say with some certainty that a Plan B has not passed this way within the last week.  



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> If we do go through with this plan we can NOT keep them in this prison past us getting the sword out of Caer Albion. To keep them imprisoned past that point is just wrong. If we go with this plan those that we manage to convert to our cause can stay the rest will get the option to go/leave unharmed.



Good idea.  Although as stated above, you can keep them longer with better accomodations. You _are_ in a war.  Besides, I wouldn't advise that you immediately trust anyone who converts, anyway.  You've already opened the floodgates once...you may not want to do it again so soon.   



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> For a time when someone has a book: how much is this whole project going to cost? Where do our current finances stand?



Can't answer this one.  Gertie? Liz?


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

I recently purchased Dundjinni, I have a Stronghold Builder's Guide, and some free time.  So in a few hours, expect to see some pictures and prices coming through.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Cool beans.  Pictures aren't a huge issue, but prices would be nice.    Of course, we'd be glad to see your work!


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> We can spend and extra few hours/days in the library looking for one if you want... I'm sure no one would notice.... Actually I have it, Selura sends two of the mages off to find Archon's book while we do whatever to the rest



 You find one.  It has directions on how to properly do pushups.


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

Umm...guys...

Each Sigil of Antimagic Costs 66,000gp.  Just FYI, this will be butt-ton expensive.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

So you'll want to build the plan around 1 sigil room, yes?  Eight seems a little excessive, based on the price.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

*Just some more food for thought*



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> Although imprisoning innocents for hours at a time can hardly be seen as the most desirable of all possible ends, what you really need to do is look at the alternatives.
> The longer they're free, the longer they have to figure out the ruse you're going to be participating in. Once they do, they will undoubtedly try to kill or capture you. Once _that _happens, you all will (of course) retaliate in order to defend yourselves, likely ending in the deaths of some of the red mages in question. Even when you're trying to get someone alive, an unforeseen accident can result in their deaths. Selura is a good example of this.



The imprisonment plan still has lots of chance for mess-ups and accidental deaths.  There is another plan out there- but anyways, it follows the same lines of using the prophesy and conning the mages except if successful there is no imprisonment and the mages would not know anything is wrong until hours later.  The plan can also be activated immediately, instead of waiting for the prison to be built. Plus there is an option of plan A, plan B and then resorting to fighting.  Instead of plan A then fighting.

With the imprisonment plan it will actually take more bluffing, since either selura needs to return occationally encoutering various mages as the prison is being built or she has to have a really good excuse as to why she was gone for almost a full day alone after a battle with these very people and one of her mages seriously wounded.

What if this were the plan B -have the prison set up- if we get into trouble run to that spot they follow us in- we run out the door.  They are still imprisoned and out of the way, but we have tried other things first.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Also, I am sure we're all willing to entertain alternatives.  However, I *strongly* recommend that you not abandon this plan in favor of *no plan,* despite the relatively high cost.  

There *must* be a plan B before you abandon plan A.  The Universe has declared it!


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

*Plan I posted yesterday*

No where in this plan are they going to confront the whole of the mage/talon population

Plan A- 
1) Re-enter the library
2) Not satisfied with what they have found they must continue to look. She is also not satisfied with what little she has found out about these new pets (the PC's), so Selura wants to take her new toys into the basement and no one should both her no matter what screams they hear... she wants to get... reaquanted with her old _friends-_ the traitors.

If at any point they the mages question the idea she pulls out the prophesy card-
She shows them the prophesy but says she is not sure how accurate it is. Tells them to study it. Reason she must question them further to find out where and how they got it, but secrecy is a priority. The king will want all the information he can get. 

If all else fails open portal door behind mages takes them to prison anyways. Still out of our hair without fighting or with minimal fighting. 

and I don't think anyone is throwing out the prison idea yet, but that so far has been the only plan discussed -not the only plan out there.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Umm...guys...
> 
> Each Sigil of Antimagic Costs 66,000gp.  Just FYI, this will be butt-ton expensive.



 Yes, I am full aware of the cost.  And, I think we need to be prepared to pay it.

It is not at the expense of our circle-- but of the rebellion, at large.

In no plan are we trying to confront the entire population of the mages-- but, in every plan, that will, without a doubt, be something that COULD happen.  So, we need to dispose of as many of them as possible without killing any of them.

As for the bluffing and the prison-- we have a ring of spell storing, do we not?  We can store Glibness in it and L'Aurel can use it.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> No where in this plan are they going to confront the whole of the mage/talon population
> 
> Plan A-
> 1) Re-enter the library
> ...




The Plans need to be to get the mages OUT of our way.  Not simply looking in another direction.

I think that this could work, if it were switched around-- prison being plan A... 

But, building the prison as part of a Plan B really does seem to be a waste of funds.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Our main objective needs to be to get the mages as far away from us as possible..

If there were more things dealing with other planes in our game, I'd say we should try to plane shift them someplace else...

If I wasn't scared they would make their will-save, I'd say let's get a bunch of scrolls of teleport and just POOF them elsewhere.

If I could wish them all away, I would

If I thought I could convince them that Sulora just wanted them to have a day off... now go home, relax and have fun-- I would... but, somehow, I don't think their dark mistress was quite that friendly...

As such, I think that--despite the cost-- the prison is the best way to go.  We have a CRAP TON of treasure and gold from the battle that we haven't even begun to distribute or anything... and, more importantly, this is no long our fight... it is OUR fight... we should be able to find the funding for it.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> The Plans need to be to get the mages OUT of our way. Not simply looking in another direction.
> 
> I think that this could work, if it were switched around-- prison being plan A...
> 
> But, building the prison as part of a Plan B really does seem to be a waste of funds.



There is no way to recover from the prison plan... if they see it as false we just have to back peddle really fast in our bluff alone and most likely fight.  And depending on when this happens it could when we are surrounded by all the mages.

And I realize that using the funds for imprisonment plan for a secondary plan is not the best option.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Plan A-
> 1) Re-enter the library
> 2) Not satisfied with what they have found they must continue to look. She is also not satisfied with what little she has found out about these new pets (the PC's), so Selura wants to take her new toys into the basement and no one should both her no matter what screams they hear... she wants to get... reaquanted with her old _friends-_ the traitors.
> 
> ...



Instead of walking in we can teleport in as close to the basement level we know of- Penny could help us with this one as she may know some small bit of info.  We don't have to worry about if someone is there when we poof in, we stick to the same story as if we came through the front door.  Selura's on a time table this is urgent no walking slowly around.  This may cut down our interaction to just a few mages.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

um... while we were in the library did we see any of those missing monks?


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

I've managed to tweak what I think is a fairly comfortable long term storage area for mages.  I used 8 sigils of Anti-Magic.  Pictures and descriptions to come soon.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> The imprisonment plan still has lots of chance for mess-ups and accidental deaths. There is another plan out there- but anyways, it follows the same lines of using the prophesy and conning the mages except if successful there is no imprisonment and the mages would not know anything is wrong until hours later. The plan can also be activated immediately, instead of waiting for the prison to be built. Plus there is an option of plan A, plan B and then resorting to fighting. Instead of plan A then fighting.



I think that leaving the mages in the library and *hoping* that none of them notice what you're doing is a great deal more dangerous than actually disabling them, which is what the prison plan does. It depends entirely on everyone's ability to lie, or at the very least to stick together. Remember that you tried almost the *exact* same plan last time we played, and couldn't keep party members from blowing the con (*cough*Archon*cough*). 



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> With the imprisonment plan it will actually take more bluffing, since either selura needs to return occationally encoutering various mages as the prison is being built or she has to have a really good excuse as to why she was gone for almost a full day alone after a battle with these very people and one of her mages seriously wounded.



Only one mage will be aware that there was a battle, and she can't be sure what the ultimate result was, since she was unconscious for the end. However, when she lost consciousness, Selura was most assuredly winning the battle. 



			
				Laurel said:
			
		

> What if this were the plan B -have the prison set up- if we get into trouble run to that spot they follow us in- we run out the door. They are still imprisoned and out of the way, but we have tried other things first.



You can't have them chase you into the sigils, as all of your magic equipment and abilities would also cease to function once inside. 

I have no problem with combining multiple plans, but I think leaving the mages in the library is inherently more risky than capturing them, even if only temporarily.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> 2) Not satisfied with what they have found they must continue to look. She is also not satisfied with what little she has found out about these new pets (the PC's), so Selura wants to take her new toys into the basement and no one should both her no matter what screams they hear... she wants to get... reaquanted with her old _friends-_ the traitors.



I've seen this mentioned several times.  I see a problem. 

No one is sure there *is* a basement to the Library.  If there is, you certainly haven't found one.  The mages appear to have been looking for books, not secret doors - so Selura didn't have them looking for that, either. As such, telling them that you're going to take anyone to a basement that as far as everyone knows does not exist seems a little weak.  

On top of convincing them, I don't know if *you* know that there's a basement.  You just suspect that there is.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> In no plan are we trying to confront the entire population of the mages-- but, in every plan, that will, without a doubt, be something that COULD happen. So, we need to dispose of as many of them as possible without killing any of them.



If you're going to Gate them to Caer Melyn, I think you actually *do* need to gather them all together, and gate them back at once.  As long as the replica of one of the Mithral Halls of Caer Albion is reasonably accurate, you should be ok in convincing them it's really where they want to go.  Trying to move them piecemeal would require a BUNCH of gate spells, drastically increasing the cost of the operation, as well as increasing the potential for everyone figuring out the ruse.  If you keep opening up Gates to the room where previously-captured mages are, they're much more likely to figure it out.  If you're going to do it, you'll need to depend at least partially on a gathered group-mentality getting the gang to move all at once.      



			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> As for the bluffing and the prison-- we have a ring of spell storing, do we not? We can store Glibness in it and L'Aurel can use it.



Good idea, but remember that your bluff should be high quality, as well.  I will penalize you for stuff like, "Because I said so!"


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> um... while we were in the library did we see any of those missing monks?



 Nope.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> If you're going to Gate them to Caer Melyn, I think you actually *do* need to gather them all together, and gate them back at once.  As long as the replica of one of the Mithral Halls of Caer Albion is reasonably accurate, you should be ok in convincing them it's really where they want to go.  Trying to move them piecemeal would require a BUNCH of gate spells, drastically increasing the cost of the operation, as well as increasing the potential for everyone figuring out the ruse.  If you keep opening up Gates to the room where previously-captured mages are, they're much more likely to figure it out.  If you're going to do it, you'll need to depend at least partially on a gathered group-mentality getting the gang to move all at once.
> 
> Good idea, but remember that your bluff should be high quality, as well.  I will penalize you for stuff like, "Because I said so!"




As long as our bluff is high quality-- which, I think it is (I've found what I needed, we must return)-- gathering them and getting them to jump through the hoop should be no problem, at all...

The only issue I can see become a problem is who we have casting the gate spell-- it might seem a little fishy if we have Xath cast it-- may send up some red flags... Randall can cast it... but, by this point, is probably a known criminal...

I guess, we could teleport Cawys in and have him do it... 

Any ideas there?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> I've managed to tweak what I think is a fairly comfortable long term storage area for mages.  I used 8 sigils of Anti-Magic.  Pictures and descriptions to come soon.



 Be sure to send it to be via email... there are lots of specifics for the actual storage area that I've been discussing with Kennon over the past few weeks-- dimensions, etc.

It need not be a *long term* storage area.  Just a place to hold them that would not be considered a torture chamber.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> As long as our bluff is high quality-- which, I think it is (I've found what I needed, we must return)-- gathering them and getting them to jump through the hoop should be no problem, at all...
> 
> The only issue I can see become a problem is who we have casting the gate spell-- it might seem a little fishy if we have Xath cast it-- may send up some red flags... Randall can cast it... but, by this point, is probably a known criminal...
> 
> ...



If we go with the prison- then Xath has to be Selura and we hope they don't feel the need to cast anything that sees through it.  Then she casts for the gate.  And even if neo-L'aurel is playing Selura part she could 'command' Xath to cast it.  
I think bringing in anyone else would be make them really question what was happening.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Be sure to send it to be via email... there are lots of specifics for the actual storage area that I've been discussing with Kennon over the past few weeks-- dimensions, etc.
> 
> It need not be a *long term* storage area. Just a place to hold them that would not be considered a torture chamber.



As I mentioned before there should be no time lapse without serious reasons from the time we have the blade and return to Hywrl and the release of the mages.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

DM, any idea when we'll know what sort of treasure we pulled in after the battle?


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think that leaving the mages in the library and *hoping* that none of them notice what you're doing is a great deal more dangerous than actually disabling them, which is what the prison plan does. It depends entirely on everyone's ability to lie, or at the very least to stick together. Remember that you tried almost the *exact* same plan last time we played, and couldn't keep party members from blowing the con (*cough*Archon*cough*).



Yet, the prison plan calls for the same bluffing and playing of parts... so if lying is the issue we shouldn't be going with any of the above plans.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> If we go with the prison- then Xath has to be Selura and we hope they don't feel the need to cast anything that sees through it. Then she casts for the gate. And even if neo-L'aurel is playing Selura part she could 'command' Xath to cast it.
> I think bringing in anyone else would be make them really question what was happening.



Alternatively, you could use a ring of spell storing for that, rather than for glibness, couldn't you?

Otherwise, just make sure Xath seems really mindwiped when she casts the spell...like Selura is dominating her, or something.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> As I mentioned before there should be no time lapse without serious reasons from the time we have the blade and return to Hywrl and the release of the mages.



 I was just refering to the time I've put into coming up with the prison plan on Liz's behalf.


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

*Nevermind*

It seems that noone wants the long term prison.  I'll save the map for something else.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I've seen this mentioned several times. I see a problem.
> 
> No one is sure there *is* a basement to the Library. If there is, you certainly haven't found one. The mages appear to have been looking for books, not secret doors - so Selura didn't have them looking for that, either. As such, telling them that you're going to take anyone to a basement that as far as everyone knows does not exist seems a little weak.
> 
> On top of convincing them, I don't know if *you* know that there's a basement. You just suspect that there is.



yes we do not know, but we have a very good assumption that the blade is in the library.  We also know Selura had them looking through the books- not a likely place for a blade to be. So she was searching for other clues within the library.

There is no guarantee, but working our way down from upstairs seems odd, and the blade is not someplace out in the open so starting from a bottom floor seems logical. She doesn't have to say basement -since it may not exsist- she doesn't have to state anywhere in specific just say she is taking them away for further questioning. If they ask she say to the bottom floor so the posible screams don't interrupt thier work.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> Yet, the prison plan calls for the same bluffing and playing of parts... so if lying is the issue we shouldn't be going with any of the above plans.



 So long as our bluffs are good-- we should be fine.  We have glibness, eagle's splendor, and the benefit having Sulora's body working on our behalf.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> DM, any idea when we'll know what sort of treasure we pulled in after the battle?



 Yes.  As soon as you return to Hyrwl for a period of time long enough to gather and collect it, the treasure is yours.


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

FYI:

As far as I know, noone in the party can "cast" Gate.  In order to use that spell, we'll need a scroll.  

Also, keep in mind that the ring of spell storing can hold 1 3rd level spell, or a combination of lower level spells.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> It seems that noone wants the long term prison.  I'll save the map for something else.



 That's not true.  I think it's just too expensive for now.  Wait a bit, and if the smaller version of the plan works, you might be able to make something along what you're thinking in the future.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> FYI:
> 
> As far as I know, noone in the party can "cast" Gate.  In order to use that spell, we'll need a scroll.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that the ring of spell storing can hold 1 3rd level spell, or a combination of lower level spells.



 Yep--

So, like I said, we'll either need Randall, Cawys, a scroll, or the ring of spell storing for that particular hurdle.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> So long as our bluffs are good-- we should be fine. We have glibness, eagle's splendor, and the benefit having Sulora's body working on our behalf.



-I was just pointing out both require bluffing, and staying together-

Bluff for the Prison- So we just have Selura command everyone to gather in one place so they can leave as a group?


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> yes we do not know, but we have a very good assumption that the blade is in the library.  We also know Selura had them looking through the books- not a likely place for a blade to be. So she was searching for other clues within the library.
> 
> There is no guarantee, but working our way down from upstairs seems odd, and the blade is not someplace out in the open so starting from a bottom floor seems logical. She doesn't have to say basement -since it may not exsist- she doesn't have to state anywhere in specific just say she is taking them away for further questioning. If they ask she say to the bottom floor so the posible screams don't interrupt thier work.



 I'm with you.  I was just reminding you to seperate what the player suspects from what the characters know.  

Furthermore, it might seem a little awkward for Selura to tell them that they're heading to the basement, and then stumble around the library looking for the basement, itself....


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> -I was just pointing out both require bluffing, and staying together-
> 
> Bluff for the Prison- So we just have Selura command everyone to gather in one place so they can leave as a group?



 Yep-- it will require the prophecy... or least something similar...

So that they have a good reason to be returning home.


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> FYI:
> 
> As far as I know, noone in the party can "cast" Gate.  In order to use that spell, we'll need a scroll.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that the ring of spell storing can hold 1 3rd level spell, or a combination of lower level spells.



 OK - the ring you currently have won't work.  So, a scroll it is, unless there's something else someone can come up with.


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Yep--
> 
> So, like I said, we'll either need Randall, Cawys, a scroll, or the ring of spell storing for that particular hurdle.





What I'm saying is you can't put Gate into the ring of spell storing.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> What I'm saying is you can't put Gate into the ring of spell storing.



 Well, still have Randall, Cawys, or a scroll to do the deed.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> It seems that noone wants the long term prison.  I'll save the map for something else.



 It's not that I don't want long term...

But long term = more time.

more time = bad.

May be able to expand on the prison in the next couple weeks in game, though!


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

Did Randall and Cawys level in the battle?  Gate is a 9th level spell, and I don't think it's the one we're looking for.

You'd have to cast Gate twice to get to Caer Albion, because what gate does is open a gate to another plane of existance.  It also only lasts 1 round/level. I don't think it's what we're looking for.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Aug 25, 2004)

Xath said:
			
		

> Did Randall and Cawys level in the battle?  Gate is a 9th level spell, and I don't think it's the one we're looking for.
> 
> You'd have to cast Gate twice to get to Caer Albion, because what gate does is open a gate to another plane of existance.  It also only lasts 1 round/level. I don't think it's what we're looking for.



 Then, the spell isn't Gate... 

Let me look up my original copy of the plan at home and repost with the correct spell.


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## Laurel (Aug 25, 2004)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> OK - the ring you currently have won't work. So, a scroll it is, unless there's something else someone can come up with.



Just to make sure is there any- any way that we would, should or could assume that Selura had the ability to cast Gate?
Scroll shouldn't be a problem though right?- we just use the same theory of not wasting personal magic so she has the now best-friend Xath read the scroll instead or selura doing it.


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## Xath (Aug 25, 2004)

It's time to start a new thread, all.

TheUniverse, will you do the honors?


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> -I was just pointing out both require bluffing, and staying together-
> 
> Bluff for the Prison- So we just have Selura command everyone to gather in one place so they can leave as a group?



 Well, it would seem so, except you give them the excuse that you have found what you needed in the hands of your new thralls (the rest of the PCs), thus giving them a reason to believe you...


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## The_Universe (Aug 25, 2004)

New thread is here: 

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1723122#post1723122


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