# Best race for a bard?



## CrimsonWineGlass (May 20, 2007)

I am working on making a character for a level 9 game.  The party has everything it needs so I decided to go with a bard, but whats the best race for a bard?


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## Nifft (May 20, 2007)

What kind of Bard will you be? Melee, archery, spellcasting, diplomacy master? I'd suggest Archery, which would make Elf or Halfling reasonable choices.

 -- N


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## Felix (May 20, 2007)

Half-orc.

Like the Spanish Inquisition, nobody will expect it.


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## pawsplay (May 20, 2007)

CrimsonWineGlass said:
			
		

> I am working on making a character for a level 9 game.  The party has everything it needs so I decided to go with a bard, but whats the best race for a bard?




If you're planning on doing any melee, human is nice for the extra feat. If you want to max out Diplomacy, half-elf is the way to go, although they are otherwise sparse in advantages. Gnomes can multiclass easiest. Elves can become Bladesingers, and have longbow proficiency. 

Goals? Dreams? Likes? Dislikes?


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 20, 2007)

1) What books can you use?

2) Do you have a concept in mind and you just don't have a race for the concept?

3) Do you have a preferred playstyle?

4) What does the rest of the party look like?


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## Stalker0 (May 20, 2007)

Human all the way. Your feat starved and you rely on skill points, 2 things humans cover.


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## Child of Hypnos (May 20, 2007)

Felix said:
			
		

> Half-orc.
> 
> Like the Spanish Inquisition, nobody will expect it.




Everybody always thinks of Half-orcs for a low Charisma characters! If you really want something nobody expects go for a Dwarf Saxophonist. (or for something really outlandish a dwarf harp/lyre player!)


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## saucercrab (May 20, 2007)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 1) What books can you use?



I second this. 

Additionally, what world are you playing in? If FR, star elf is a good choice.


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## Drowbane (May 20, 2007)

CrimsonWineGlass said:
			
		

> I am working on making a character for a level 9 game.  The party has everything it needs so I decided to go with a bard, but whats the best race for a bard?




Athas Gnome


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## saucercrab (May 20, 2007)

Drowbane said:
			
		

> Athas Gnome


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## Particle_Man (May 20, 2007)

pawsplay said:
			
		

> Gnomes can multiclass easiest.




Indeed.  Druid 1/Rogue 2/Bard 6 (although human or half-elf would also work).  Then get 1 more level of Bard and go into Fochlucan Lyrist in Complete Adventurer!  You lose 3 levels of bardic ability, but you gain extra druid spells, and recover your BAB loss.  And you saves are rather sick.


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## satori01 (May 20, 2007)

Human, the extra skill point and extra Feat are invaluable.
You want to take Melodic Casting when first can, so you can use Bardic Music and be able to cast spells.

The extra skill point by being human is in effect like a +2 to Int, and the extra feat makes it easier to reach PrCs, or take feats like Arcane Strike or Extra Bardic Music.


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## Aust Diamondew (May 20, 2007)

Human or halfling.  Elf isn't as good because of constituation penalty, dwarves and half-orcs have charisma penalties.

That said as long as you have at least a 13 charisma at level 1 your bard will be fine.  Just bump it up with ability boost.  Often its more important as a bard to have well rounded physical stats and charisma than just a high charisma, and one good physical ability score.


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## Nifft (May 20, 2007)

satori01 said:
			
		

> You want to take Melodic Casting when first can, so you can use Bardic Music and be able to cast spells.




You can already do this. Play an instrument and cast a spell at the same time; alternately, sing and use a weapon at the same time.

Cheers, -- N


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## Sejs (May 20, 2007)

Dire Mime.


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## hong (May 20, 2007)

Sejs said:
			
		

> Dire Mime.



 Tautology.


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## satori01 (May 20, 2007)

Nifft said:
			
		

> You can already do this. Play an instrument and cast a spell at the same time; alternately, sing and use a weapon at the same time.
> 
> Cheers, -- N




Right but with Melodic Casting you can Sing, Attack with a weapon,  and the next round cast a spell w/o stopping the Bardic Music.


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## Gnome (May 21, 2007)

If you are playing in the Forgotten Realms and want a more martial bard build, a Gold Dwarf would make an interesting choice: +2 CON, -2 DEX (no CHA penalty).  If you take a level of fighter, you can get access to more weapons including the dwarven waraxe, and if you take the battle caster feat from complete arcane, you can cast spells in medium armor (including mithril full plate).


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## Darklone (May 21, 2007)

Think about one level of Scout for hitpoints and trapfinding... but bard archers are pretty cool with fighter levels. Level 9? 4 ftr levels are best heading for Ranged Weapon Mastery.

That's great. Level 8 is good for bards song, get some boosts and take Haste, perhaps one fighter level. Feats: Weapon Focus, PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot. Get some song boosts and a good str. Max dex and get Cha high enough for spellcasting, depending on whether you can buy that bow that allows you to add CHA to damage with your starting money.

Melee bard? Human, one level barbarian, str 18 and a polearm with Power Attack. Extra Rage with the other feat, next feats Cleave and Combat Reflexes. Always full Power Attack, with the typical buffs you'll still hit everything.


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## The Souljourner (May 22, 2007)

Human all the way.  And don't multiclass.  Bards already get a little bit of everything, mutliclassing just hamstrings them.  Balance your stats and feats so you don't focus on any one thing too much and you'll always be useful.  If you try to be a specialist bard, you'll be screwing yourself... bards aren't specialists by design, so trying to shoehorn them into that will just make you worse at everything else.

As others said, a huge charisma is actually not all that necessary.. balanced stats are much more useful.  All 14s is actually one of the best stat lines for a bard (can put a 12 in something if you're playing 28 point buy).

Just remember that you're pretty good at spellcasting, sneaking, talking, melee, and ranged.. and have the really cool and unique bard abilities.  If you spread your feats fairly evenly among all your abilities, you'll do well and always be seen as an asset to the party (regardless of what anyone's preconceptions are).

-Nate


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## Mistwell (May 22, 2007)

satori01 said:
			
		

> Right but with Melodic Casting you can Sing, Attack with a weapon,  and the next round cast a spell w/o stopping the Bardic Music.




You can do the same thing with a Harmonizing weapon (Magic Item Compendium).

A Crystal Echoblade of Harmonizing (Both from Magic Item Compendium) is a bard's ultimate melee weapon.  +1/2 bard level to damage every round you are using your bardic music, and the weapon can continue the bardic music for you while you do something else.

I think Bard is a flexible enough class to handle any race.  Human and Gnome both have their obvious advantages, but I think any race can work well with the bard if built right.

I also think that multiclassing is not required.  Your biggest weapons can be your inspire courage, which increases in power with bard levels, and magic items like that Crystal Echoblade, which increases with your bard levels, and your bardic music uses per day, which increase with your bard levels.  Why mess with success?


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## Nifft (May 22, 2007)

satori01 said:
			
		

> Right but with Melodic Casting you can Sing, Attack with a weapon,  and the next round cast a spell w/o stopping the Bardic Music.




That's a good point. However, the major selling point for Melodic Casting IMHO is that you no longer need Concentration for ANYTHING. You can substitute a Perform check for ANY Concentration check. Holy cow on a pogo stick! That's one mean feat right there, given how Bards are usually desperate for skill points.

One feat to merge three skills (two Performs + Concentration) into a single skill? Nice! Sign me up for that and Skill Focus (Perform). 

Cheers, -- N


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## Darklone (May 22, 2007)

The Souljourner said:
			
		

> Human all the way.  And don't multiclass.  ...



I agree with the rest you posted... yet this? I agree, if you wanna play that full score bard dude how the D&D designers envisioned him, that's the way to go.

But a bard can be so much more. It's a great class for multiclassing with nearly every other skillmonkey.


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## The Souljourner (May 22, 2007)

Darklone said:
			
		

> a bard can be so much more. It's a great class for multiclassing with nearly every other skillmonkey.




I don't agree at all.  What do you get for multiclassing with other skillful classes?  The bard already has 90% of the skills, so you're not gaining much there, and they lose spellcasting and bardic ability for it.  Additionally, most skillful classes are 3/4 BAB, which means you're losing out on another BAB, unless you take exactly 4 or 8 levels.

The problem, IMO, with multiclassing a bard is that the bard can already do 3/4 of what any other class can do, so multiclassing to another class only gains you 1/4 more of that class' specialty, and loses you 3/4 of every other class' specialty.  It's just not worth the gain for all the loss.

There probably can be very specific exceptions, but most of the ones I can think of are a single level dip in another class for flavor reasons.

-Nate


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## lukelightning (May 22, 2007)

Mind flayer.


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## Nifft (May 22, 2007)

There are some good multi-class options, particularly with tough lightly armored melee guys, like Barbarian or Warblade.

Cheers, -- N


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## Darklone (May 22, 2007)

Nifft said:
			
		

> There are some good multi-class options, particularly with tough lightly armored melee guys, like Barbarian or Warblade.
> 
> Cheers, -- N



Yupp: 
- Bbn1/Bard. High str, good dex and con, mediocre charisma. With Power Attack and a reach weapon, this build competes till level 10 with the true fightertypes and has much more options.
- Ftr4/Bard8. Archer build. WS, RWM and bard song plus haste and you got one of the best archers in the game (notwithstanding the scout3/rgr with Swift Hunter and Imp Skirmish).
- Rog/Brd. TWF plus Mirror Image. Certainly the rogue can get that with UMD.... but the bard does not cost money. Sneak attack is weaker but bard song bonus counts against undead.
- Bard/Swashbuckler. Sadly there's no multiclassfeat for this combination yet... but it has style.
- Bard/Paladin4 (Devoted Performer). Sword&Boarder who can preach like no other character and has twice the saves of any other group member. If you can spare the feats, Divine Might and bard song together with that Cha-to-damage bow might be something interesting.

The bards spellcasting is not that strong, so he does not lose a lot if he's multiclassing, but the other class has a lot to win.


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## Mistwell (May 22, 2007)

I'd say Dragon Shaman and Marshall both synergize well with the Bard's buffing and charisma-based abilities.

I also think that fighter rogue and barbarian multi-classing is a distraction.  Bardic music and spells are all really important parts of the bard, and they lose that when multiclassing.


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## irdeggman (May 23, 2007)

Drowbane said:
			
		

> Athas Gnome





Lol


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## moritheil (May 23, 2007)

Bard/IoSV is a lot of fun: nobody expects it, and even when heavily damaged you can contribute to fights by putting up veils and singing.  

People are posting funny races, but in an epic campaign, I'd recommend Tulani eladrin as a bard option.  They get the musical ability of a 20th bard and can begin or maintain music as a free action each round.  Of course, they start at ECL 28 . . .


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## satori01 (May 23, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> You can do the same thing with a Harmonizing weapon (Magic Item Compendium).
> 
> A Crystal Echoblade of Harmonizing (Both from Magic Item Compendium) is a bard's ultimate melee weapon.  +1/2 bard level to damage every round you are using your bardic music, and the weapon can continue the bardic music for you while you do something else.




True but think of it this way, what is easier to slip into a campaign, a single feat or an entire Weapon Enchantment?  Now even if you get the enchantment in, you now have to find someone that knows the enchantment, or take Craft Magic Arms yourself.

Second point would you are tying that very useful ability to a weapon,   which can be broken, stolen, or disenchanted.
Bards can already be pretty good in the classic "Slavers" scenario.
However it becomes
This is your bard in Slavelords
This is your  bard in Slavelords with Melodic Casting.

I want to see a bard building contest using all the books.
I might have to start that thread.


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