# Terrible idea: streaming services to only unlock the next episode a week after you watch the last one.



## Janx (Nov 13, 2019)

I was listening to NPR talk about Disney+ and the Mandalorian's first episode which sounded more better than the trailers that left me wondering what the show was even about.


Unlike Netflix, some of the streaming services only release a new episode a week at a time.  So naturally, some people have the idea to wait until it's done, then subscribe for a month and binge.

This affects the traditional rate of conception and excitement of waiting for the next episode, but also cuts revenue.

So what if they make you want a week before you can watch the next episode. Period. Not because it's, but because it's new to you.

I don't think this is actually a good idea, just one of those thoughts of how something could be done.


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## Leatherhead (Nov 13, 2019)

The entire point of streaming is to watch something when I have time for it. The modern workforce doesn't have a stable work schedule, going backwards like that would mean that people just stop watching.


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## Theo R Cwithin (Nov 13, 2019)

I can definitely envision a suit thinking that's a good idea, blocking binge-watching and forcing people to stick around on a service for months longer than they otherwise would. 
But I'm a binge-watcher, so they'd lose me immediately. I'll never miss what I never see.


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## jonesy (Nov 13, 2019)

The idea is just as horrible as video games refusing to give you the ability to save a game until you get to a certain point. I have an actual life that rarely seems to work according to the designers schedules. If I can't make the product adapt to my schedule I can't use it.


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## Gladius Legis (Nov 13, 2019)

I really hope there isn't some scumbag streaming service CEO reading this thread and getting the idea ...


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## ccs (Nov 13, 2019)

Janx said:


> I was listening to NPR talk about Disney+ and the Mandalorian's first episode which sounded more better than the trailers that left me wondering what the show was even about.
> 
> 
> Unlike Netflix, some of the streaming services only release a new episode a week at a time.  So naturally, some people have the idea to wait until it's done, then subscribe for a month and binge.
> ...




Not having caught that NPR talk, is that what Disney's _doing_?  Or just you throwing crap at the wall for discussion?


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## Ovinomancer (Nov 13, 2019)

Yes.  Mandalorian is on a weekly release schedule.  HBO has done this for years with their series.


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## trappedslider (Nov 13, 2019)

The free trial last a week which would be more than enough time to binge watch one of the tent pole shows, this way they make you stay subbed past that free trial.


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## ccs (Nov 13, 2019)

Ovinomancer said:


> Yes.  Mandalorian is on a weekly release schedule.  HBO has done this for years with their series.




That's too bad.  Because I was done watching things on a weekly basis years before streaming was a thing.  
So I guess I'll treat them like I do HBO.  
I'll wait patiently for the eventual BR/DVD.  If it drops next Oct-Dec, then my relatives get a Christmas gift idea they can understand ("Oh, it's a movie!".) 
And if they don't release it on BR/DVD?  Well....


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## CapnZapp (Nov 13, 2019)

ccs said:


> Not having caught that NPR talk, is that what Disney's _doing_?  Or just you throwing crap at the wall for discussion?



I believe the poster got the idea from the talk, and wanted our feedback.

(And yes, it seems to be a wildly impopular prospect)


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## trappedslider (Nov 13, 2019)

It also seems to be how they are doing The World According to Jeff Goldblum


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## Ryujin (Nov 13, 2019)

As many are now saying online, "Look! They've invented cable TV."


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## CarlZog (Nov 13, 2019)

I do understand the need for services to discourage people from binging for a week then dumping their sub. But at the same time, I think the genie is out of the bottle. Everybody has gotten way too used to seeing as much as they want when they want. Trying to get people to go back to weekly TV schedules is a tough sell.


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## Ovinomancer (Nov 13, 2019)

Okay, I'm going to take the unpopular side, here.  That Netflix dumps seasons at a time isn't a good reason to expect this as normal -- it's not across streaming services.  Netflix started without original programming, so dumping the entire season of the licensed shows made sense -- they didn't build their business model that way but rather on massive amounts of mostly mediocre content.   Further, they built their streaming service on the back of a very lucrative physical rental business and didn't have to make ends meet with streaming until they already had a solid business there.  I expect things to shift now that their position at the top is being eroded by the new services.

Prime, as the other model that does dumps, isn't a monthly service but a yearly one, so it's not even in the same business model ballpark.

So, all that said, the fact that new episodes are parceled out once a week as a burden is so whingy and entitled.  This is, essentially, the complaint of someone who wants the thing for a single month's sub (binge and dump) or rotating free accounts (again, binge and never pay).  Expecting a business to cater to your abuse of the system so that you can have bingeable shows is, well, words Eric's Grandma wouldn't appreciate.  Grow up.  That you might have to wait until the end of December to binge watch a show by getting a free preview week is just horrible -- you're so behind the paying customers and that's unfair?


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## Umbran (Nov 13, 2019)

ccs said:


> That's too bad.  Because I was done watching things on a weekly basis years before streaming was a thing.
> So I guess I'll treat them like I do HBO.




Dude, once it has been released, it stays available.  So, you wait a few months, it stacks up a season's worth, _then_ you watch it.


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## Zaukrie (Nov 13, 2019)

Disney+ is currently included in all Verizon unlimited data plans for 1 year.......

that out of the way, it is an intriguing idea. IF I was the suit running one of these, I'd consider some kind of three month minimum instead. Pay for three months to join. That's not ideal either, but it's better than 1 month. Despite what some people think, adding and deleting members does cost money. And I have no issue with companies making money.


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## CapnZapp (Nov 13, 2019)

Some posters here apparently fail to distinguish between the regular binge model (Netflix) and what's discussed here:

That the app tracks when you completed an episode and then only makes the next one available one week later. For you, individually.

_Forcing_ you not to binge, that is.


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## Ovinomancer (Nov 13, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> Some posters here apparently fail to distinguish between the regular binge model (Netflix) and what's discussed here:
> 
> That the app tracks when you completed an episode and then only makes the next one available one week later. For you, individually.
> 
> _Forcing_ you not to binge, that is.



What are you talking about?  Certainly not D+, or any other service I know of.  Mandalorian releases on Fridays (mostly).


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## Gladius Legis (Nov 13, 2019)

Ovinomancer said:


> Prime, as the other model that does dumps, isn't a monthly service but a yearly one, so it's not even in the same business model ballpark.



If you're going to write a condescending screed (i.e. calling your opposition "whingy" and "entitled" and telling them to "grow up"), you'd best get your facts right. Prime does have a monthly subscription option.


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## Janx (Nov 13, 2019)

Ovinomancer said:


> What are you talking about?  Certainly not D+, or any other service I know of.  Mandalorian releases on Fridays (mostly).



Capp gets it.  The current situation is some vendors like releasing one episode a week because it keeps customers around AND it simulates the traditional TV model, the practice is defeated at the end of the run when all episodes are available at once.

My idea is that they can tag the date you watched an episode and make you wait a week before unlocking the next one. Period. Thus limiting to one week at a time, regardless of original date of release.

It's not a great idea.  Perhaps best used on new members/new seasons, rather than stuff that's a couple years old.  It's a way to stop the wait a year, subscribe and binge for a month that cuts the profits off a 12 episode series from 3 months to 1.


Another idea in my back pocket is that vendors who make original content that we pay for, owe us a complete series.  Unlike NBC, who is paid by advertisers, so if a show tanks, they cancel it.  I paid Netflix to make The OA.  They Owe Me.


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## Umbran (Nov 13, 2019)

Janx said:


> It's not a great idea.  Perhaps best used on new members/new seasons, rather than stuff that's a couple years old.  It's a way to stop the wait a year, subscribe and binge for a month that cuts the profits off a 12 episode series from 3 months to 1.




While a lot of people _talk_ about taking one month, binging, and then turning it off, I am not so sure they are such a large number that it would justify putting a roadblock in the way of other users.

I suspect most folks just buy the subscription, or intend to do one month, but never turn it off.  The providers would _love_ these people - paying for the service, but not actually using it most of the time is like printing money.  They would not want to disrupt the experience of the moneymakers.



> Another idea in my back pocket is that vendors who make original content that we pay for, owe us a complete series.  Unlike NBC, who is paid by advertisers, so if a show tanks, they cancel it.  I paid Netflix to make The OA.  They Owe Me.




Define "complete series" - The Good Place is ending after four seasons, because that's the story they set out to tell.  Supernatural is ending after 15 seasons.  

Do you want to pay up front for several seasons of a show whose quality is not yet known?


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## CapnZapp (Nov 13, 2019)

Ovinomancer said:


> What are you talking about?  Certainly not D+, or any other service I know of.  Mandalorian releases on Fridays (mostly).



I am talking about this thread!   

Don't believe me - read the OP... again


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## Ralif Redhammer (Nov 13, 2019)

I think something like this could be built, but doing so would be more hassle than most streaming companies would want compared to the financial benefits they'll get out of it. I could be wrong, but I imagine the people that subscribe and maintain are greater in number than those that binge and delete.

For my part, I'm not really a binge-watcher (unless I'm home sick). I like to take my time and savor a series. That and, when I'm finished, either the series is done or I have that much longer to wait for the next season.



Janx said:


> So what if they make you want a week before you can watch the next episode. Period. Not because it's, but because it's new to you.
> 
> I don't think this is actually a good idea, just one of those thoughts of how something could be done.


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## Ovinomancer (Nov 13, 2019)

CapnZapp said:


> I am talking about this thread!
> 
> Don't believe me - read the OP... again



You're right, apologies.  It hadn't occurred to me that someone would invent a non-existent problem to whinge about, so I filtered the OP accordingly.  My optimism appears to have been misplaced.


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## Janx (Nov 13, 2019)

Umbran said:


> ...snip...
> 
> Define "complete series" - The Good Place is ending after four seasons, because that's the story they set out to tell.  Supernatural is ending after 15 seasons.
> 
> Do you want to pay up front for several seasons of a show whose quality is not yet known?



good point in the snipped section, but to address this part.

With the streaming companies offering original programming, the paradigm has shifted from advertising funded television to customer funded.

So a case could be made that I, as a subscriber to Netflix, am paying for a story.  So when Netflix starts one (ex. The OA)  and cancels it on a season 2 cliffhanger that even actor Jason Issacs wants to know what happens next, they have failed to produce a complete story and therefore, didn't give me what I paid for.

That's different from The CW, which is advertiser funded.  I didn't pay for their 15 seasons of Supernatural.  They make it to trick me into watching advertisements which is the unspoken contract.  

Once the customer directly pays, the deal is different


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## Umbran (Nov 13, 2019)

Janx said:


> With the streaming companies offering original programming, the paradigm has shifted from advertising funded television to customer funded.




Sometimes.  Some packages do include some advertising.  Hulu, for example, has tiers with ads.



> So a case could be made that I, as a subscriber to Netflix, am paying for a story.




At the moment, no, not in any way, shape, or form.  Technically, you are paying for access to a library,.  They don't make promises as to exactly what will be in that library.  

You may _want_ to be paying for a story.  But that really would be a different funding model than they are currently using.  Amazon Prime allows you to pay for a season of many shows - but that content is already in the can when you pay for it.  Currently, _nobody_ promises you a full story - not even novelists.  George RR Martin may never finish a Song of Ice and Fire, and his estate is not liable to the audience if he doesn't finish.



> So when Netflix starts one (ex. The OA)  and cancels it on a season 2 cliffhanger that even actor Jason Issacs wants to know what happens next, they have failed to produce a complete story and therefore, didn't give me what I paid for.




If you are really so annoyed at that to cancel your subscription, you can do that.  But don't present it like The OA appeared anywhere in your agreement with Netflix.  'Cause it didn't.  Your personal motivation for entering into the subscription is not binding on them.  They were clear about what they offered.

What you suggest may be possible in the future - Kickstarter for TV.  But it isn't what we have now.


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## Janx (Nov 13, 2019)

Umbran said:


> ..snip..
> 
> What you suggest may be possible in the future - Kickstarter for TV.  But it isn't what we have now.




That is ultimately, the point of any the ideas I presented here.  It COULD be like that.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 13, 2019)

Janx said:


> Capp gets it.  The current situation is some vendors like releasing one episode a week because it keeps customers around AND it simulates the traditional TV model, the practice is defeated at the end of the run when all episodes are available at once.
> 
> My idea is that they can tag the date you watched an episode and make you wait a week before unlocking the next one. Period. Thus limiting to one week at a time, regardless of original date of release.
> 
> ...



In case it is a great business idea, find a way to patent, copyright or whatever this idea so you get at least stinking filthy rich ruining streaming for the rest of us.


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## Umbran (Nov 13, 2019)

Janx said:


> That is ultimately, the point of any the ideas I presented here.  It COULD be like that.




You still have the issue of asking folks to pay up front.  If you want to pay up front for several seasons (a "complete story"), we are talking tens to hundreds of millions of dollars for a premium TV show.  That's.. a very large investment for crowdfunding.

And, now that you are adding a sense of entitlement - what do you do when folks start saying, "I didn't pay for the story to go in this direction!  I didn't pay to see my favorite character die!" or what have you?


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## Ryujin (Nov 13, 2019)

Umbran said:


> [ ... ]
> 
> What you suggest may be possible in the future - Kickstarter for TV.  But it isn't what we have now.




Ever heard of "The Fantasy Network"


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## Janx (Nov 13, 2019)

Umbran said:


> You still have the issue of asking folks to pay up front.  If you want to pay up front for several seasons (a "complete story"), we are talking tens to hundreds of millions of dollars for a premium TV show.  That's.. a very large investment for crowdfunding.
> 
> And, now that you are adding a sense of entitlement - what do you do when folks start saying, "I didn't pay for the story to go in this direction!  I didn't pay to see my favorite character die!" or what have you?



You're not wrong, but you're also not 100% correct.

You're making a slippery slope argument. Making sure they plan an exit strategy is not the same as guaranteeing everybody will like the story.

Stranger Things demonstrates that they can write and film  a complete season that completes a story and still leave threads for another season.

Babylon 5 demonstrates that you can plan the entire series, not just a season in advance, and account for actors leaving and changing networks.  Even if people didn't like the last season as much.  Mission accomplished.

The OA was largely unresolved in a huge cliffhanger.  Exciting, but why would I advise any friend to watch it, knowing that its incomplete.

TV Land is littered with canceled TV shows.  It's not a new problem.  But the world has changed and now we pay directly to the producers. Maybe we ought to get something for that.


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## Salthorae (Nov 13, 2019)

Umbran said:


> While a lot of people _talk_ about taking one month, binging, and then turning it off,




I managed it for GoT on HBO. I signed up and binge-watched 7 seasons on the free trial in the years between 7 & 8. Then when season 8 had released 4 episodes, I signed up the day 5 dropped and finished 8 within one month. So I paid $14.99 to watch all 8 seasons of GoT. Totally worth it. 

if they switch to a model that marks your account and only makes a next episode available a week later, they wouldn't have even gotten my $14.99 from me.


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## CleverNickName (Nov 13, 2019)

I don't know a whole lot about the entertainment industry, especially Internet broadcasting.  But I do know how I consume streaming content:  I'm a binge watcher.  I won't wait hours in line for some trendy avocado toast, and I won't wait days or weeks to watch the next episode of a trendy television show. 

It's just television, something I use to pass the time.  I'm perfectly content to turn it off and play video games instead.


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## Zardnaar (Nov 14, 2019)

I don't see any of them doing this. 

 I suspect things will start to move away from binge watching. 6 or 12 decent shows a year doesn't cut it when a season is only 10 episodes most streaming sites don't have 6 to 12 shows to get excited about.

 Binge watching preexisting content is fun especially if you find something you like with 10 existing seasons.

 Most if the time you're paying to watch a back catalog. I think we're gonna get Disney+ for a couple of months watch Mandalorian, Gargoyle's, some movies and cancel. 

 We'll probably end up with 3 services. Netflix, Amazon and floating and we get Amazon for free probably change ISPs to get whatever free deal they're offering.


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2019)

Ryujin said:


> Ever heard of "The Fantasy Network"




Nope.  Should I have?


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2019)

Janx said:


> You're making a slippery slope argument.




Not quite.  One moment...



> Making sure they plan an exit strategy is not the same as guaranteeing everybody will like the story.




You started this with your own personal bugaboo - you don't like it when they don't wrap up a story with a purpose-built end.  But, in media appreciation, the end is not really all that special.  Other folks don't care about the end - they care that the villain gets a kick in the pants.. or they care about their personally favorite romantic relationship, or what have you.  

Your personal "I want it done this way" is in no way superior to anyone else's.  Why should we be so focused on your particular desires?  If you get your preference met, they should be able to get theirs - their money is as good as yours!  

This isn't a slippery slope argument - it is recognizing that your personal desires are not due special consideration.



> Stranger Things demonstrates that they can write and film  a complete season that completes a story and still leave threads for another season.




And if they leave the wrong threads unresolved, are you going to say it wasn't a proper end?

Oh, and "they" are not some unified whole.  The folks making Stranger Things are, pretty clearly, special in the field. It is possible for someone to do this - that doesn't mean every production group can.  The number of folks with teh skills and sensibilities for this are probably limited.



> Babylon 5 demonstrates that you can plan the entire series, not just a season in advance, and account for actors leaving and changing networks.  Even if people didn't like the last season as much.  Mission accomplished.




Again, you use one of the best shows in existence as a sign that everyone could do it, and logically that just does not follow.  JMS is not just every author.  And, guess what, even his accounting didn't handle all of the issues that came up.  Oh, and by the way, JMS has noted that the stress of the show was not good for his health - it was 5 years that aged him significantly.  Other authors/showrunners probably would have folded, and then... you'd not have gotten a satisfying end to the show, as the minds behind it would leave abruptly.

So, no, this should not be an expected standard.



> TV Land is littered with canceled TV shows.  It's not a new problem.  But the world has changed and now we pay directly to the producers. Maybe we ought to get something for that.




Yeah, you see, there's that entitlement again.


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## Ryujin (Nov 14, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Nope.  Should I have?




Based on the information I got by sitting in on a discussion prior to its launch, it sort of fits what you're talking about (Kickstarter TV). It's a co-op between a bunch of indie show and web series producers; Zombie Orpheus Entertainment ("The Gamers", "JourneyQuest"...), The Forge Studios ("The Fellows Hip", "Rangers"...),  Arrowstorm Entertainment ("Mythica", "The Outpost" on CW) and many others. It's a streaming site, with a monthly subscription charge, but they offer many of the production houses' back catalogues for free viewing. the new stuff is behind paywall for a while, then later joins the free stuff.

They're currently using Kickstarter for much of the content, but apparently the eventual intent is to also create their own content specific crowd funding service. At least that was in the panel discussion I sat in on. There's an area on thefantasy.network website where you can vote for what you want to be made next, by signing up for it with your email address. Given that the content producers' back catalogues are available to be watched you'll have a pretty good idea if you'll like what's coming next, and (ideally) the shows get paid for up-front with subscriptions, and through the specific crowd funding for the productions.


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2019)

Ryujin said:


> Based on the information I got by sitting in on a discussion prior to its launch, it sort of fits what you're talking about (Kickstarter TV).




Overall, sounds cool.  Noting wrong with trying out a new funding paradigm.  I wish them good luck.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2019)

It’s certainly a good way to guarantee your shows are the most pirated!  The only thing more likely to guarantee widespread piracy than denying your product to potential customers is to hook them first and _then_ deny them it.


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## Umbran (Nov 15, 2019)

Morrus said:


> It’s certainly a good way to guarantee your shows are the most pirated!




I'm not sure what you mean. Is this basically, "a good way to guarantee your content is pirated is to make people pay for it"?

Anything that isn't outright advertising-based broadcast is denied to those who aren't paying some specific provider.


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## Zardnaar (Nov 15, 2019)

Aarrgh.









						Disney's The Mandalorian already one of the most pirated shows of 2019
					

It's the most eagerly awaited show on Disney's new streaming service — and fans outside the US are not prepared to wait any longer.




					i.stuff.co.nz
				




4 days no big deal to wait.


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## ccs (Nov 15, 2019)

Janx said:


> My idea is that they can tag the date you watched an episode and make you wait a week before unlocking the next one. Period. Thus limiting to one week at a time, regardless of original date of release.




Ok, so you're just speculating the worst possible "What If...."  (this is not made clear in this thread btw) 

So if I sign up for D+ come Jan. I can watch all of Mandolrian S1 in one (well likely two) evenings.


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## ccs (Nov 15, 2019)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> In case it is a great business idea, find a way to patent, copyright or whatever this idea so you get at least stinking filthy rich ruining streaming for the rest of us.




I _will_ look into that.
A) I might get rich!
B) At the worst I might prevent it from being implemented.

Sadly though I suspect somebody (probably the Mouse) has beaten us all to it.  But just in case....


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## Morrus (Nov 15, 2019)

Umbran said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. Is this basically, "a good way to guarantee your content is pirated is to make people pay for it"?
> 
> Anything that isn't outright advertising-based broadcast is denied to those who aren't paying some specific provider.




Nope. That's not what I mean at all.

I mean that if you make it so people _can't_ watch it legally (eg pay to watch it) they'll find some other way to watch it.

One of the biggest causes of piracy isn't people who _won't_ pay -- it's that large group of people who would happily pay and watch it legally if they could, but aren't allowed to do so.

Take _The Mandalorian_ -- people in Europe would happily sign up to Disney+ and watch it. They can't; so they're pirating it en-masse. Partly because they don't want to wait until March 2020, partly to avoid spoilers.

Now with @Janx's hypothetical idea, what we're doing is allowing people to sign up and start watching it. And _then_ we're withholding the rest just out of reach. The temptation is even greater, because you want to see what happens next. But in this model, the rest of the season _is out there_  -- it's not like _The Mandalorian _where everybody has to wait together. It's just that your provider is making _you_ wait a week for each new episode, even though the guy down the street is on Episode 6. 

So instead of being forced to wait a week for each episode, people would just pirate the entire season and binge it. In that scenario, you'd be guaranteeing your show would be pirated.


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## Janx (Nov 15, 2019)

ccs said:


> Ok, so you're just speculating the worst possible "What If...."  (this is not made clear in this thread btw)
> 
> So if I sign up for D+ come Jan. I can watch all of Mandolrian S1 in one (well likely two) evenings.



yes.  You'll be just fine.


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## Janx (Nov 15, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Take _The Mandalorian_ -- people in Europe would happily sign up to Disney+ and watch it. They can't; so they're pirating it en-masse. Partly because they don't want to wait until March 2020, partly to avoid spoilers.
> 
> Now with @Janx's hypothetical idea, what we're doing is allowing people to sign up and start watching it. And _then_ we're withholding the rest just out of reach. The temptation is even greater, because you want to see what happens next. But in this model, the rest of the season _is out there_  -- it's not like _The Mandalorian _where everybody has to wait together. It's just that your provider is making _you_ wait a week for each new episode, even though the guy down the street is on Episode 6.
> 
> So instead of being forced to wait a week for each episode, people would just pirate the entire season and binge it. In that scenario, you'd be guaranteeing your show would be pirated.




Very good point.


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## Eltab (Nov 21, 2019)

I think this is an excellent concept to add to Parental Controls.  The kids cannot binge-watch on their device during the school year, they find their time freed up to do homework.


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