# How do you pronounce "Drow"?



## Tuzenbach (May 26, 2004)

My immediate circle of players had always pronounced "Drow" as rhyming with "go". Then one day, I met a player who pronounced it as rhyming with "cow", which I thought was thoroughly wrong and hideous! 

A year or so ago that Vin Deasil(sp?) person was on the Conan O'Brian Show and went off on some tangent regarding his "Specialist Mage Drow" (with "Drow" as in "cow") and I was horrified. I thought "Great. Now the whole gaming world will pronounce it incorrectly".

Anyway, how do you pronounce it?


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## JRRNeiklot (May 26, 2004)

As in "bow."


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## Nightchill (May 26, 2004)

In the various LARPs I've done (where there were hundrends upon hundreds of Drow) it was always pronounced so as to rhyme with "cow".

Edit: From Sean Reynolds "the official pronunciation (dating back to 1E AD&D) rhymes with cow. Or, "How now, brown drow?""

See http://pub17.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm2.showMessage?topicID=192.topic


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## Gez (May 26, 2004)

I pronounce it "drôh".


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## ltclnlbrain (May 26, 2004)

'Drow' has always rhymed with 'cow' as far as I and all of my gaming buddies are concerned. I have never once heard it rhyme with 'go' (or 'bow' for that matter). That pronunciation seems weird and scary to me.


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## Anime Kidd (May 26, 2004)

I pronounce it as 'Droe'. I'm sorry but I can't really see the 'cow version' as something to be feared. I mean can you imagine an army of 'em ready to storm a castle and and you look over the walls and say: "There is an entire Drow* army out there!" (chessy line, I know). Now if you say it as in bow (or go), I think it sounds better.

* as in Cow


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## RithTheAwakener (May 26, 2004)

> I pronounce it as 'Droe'. I'm sorry but I can't really see the 'cow version' as something to be feared. I mean can you imagine an army of 'em ready to storm a castle and and you look over the walls and say: "There is an entire Drow* army out there!" (chessy line, I know). Now if you say it as in bow (or go), I think it sounds better.




i completely agree. drow(cow) sounds weak and frail to me, whereas drow(oh) sounds devious(spelling ) and powerful..


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## Snoweel (May 26, 2004)

LOL

It's funny how when the same old alignment/role vs roll/point-buy vs random arguments come up year after year, all the old-timers go to great pains to point out that "We've done this before st00pid!!!!!" yet when the "How do you pronounce Drow?" thread crops up nobody says a word.

And for what it's worth, Drow as rhyming with hoe isn't in any way sinister.


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## Snoweel (May 26, 2004)

Drow, a deer, a female deer...


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## Nightchill (May 26, 2004)

Not only has it been done before, but it's been commented on by the designers themselves (and the word's origins explained)


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## Hypersmurf (May 26, 2004)

JRRNeiklot said:
			
		

> As in "bow."




Wow, watch that joke go over everyone's heads!

Don't worry - _I_ found it amusing...!  

-Hyp.


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## Snoweel (May 26, 2004)

Actually that joke's been done before too. I think they used a different smiley last time which is why you must've missed it.


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## Shadowdancer (May 26, 2004)

Not this again!  

I pronounce it to rhyme with go. As in "Let this topic go."


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## ironmani (May 26, 2004)

I always pronounced it as the same as "cow" But that was before the huge influx of drow rangers who fight two weapon style running around.   I finally got so fed up with it, I banned all drow in my world. When asked by the Drizzit clone why, I responed that they had all left to go to the plane of the elemental forest to be rangers. No lie he asked, "Well could my drow be the only one who was left?" Ggggaaaahhhhh! I could almost strangle R.A. Salvatore for loosing the plauge that is Drizzit upon the D & D world. Of course I would be strangling him because he killed Chewie first.


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## Carnifex (May 26, 2004)

Ah, good to see the old traditions kept up.

Someone should keep a tally of just how often the 'how do you pronounce drow' threads come up.


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## Snoweel (May 26, 2004)

Carnifex said:
			
		

> Ah, good to see the old traditions kept up.
> 
> Someone should keep a tally of just how often the 'how do you pronounce drow' threads come up.




It's reminding me of that final expository speech at the end of the third Matrix movie.


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## Hand of Evil (May 26, 2004)

Carnifex said:
			
		

> Ah, good to see the old traditions kept up.
> 
> Someone should keep a tally of just how often the 'how do you pronounce drow' threads come up.



  think I will do a search...


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## Jorath Calar (May 26, 2004)

I heard it pronounced in Baldur's Gate 2 as rhyming with Cow...so I've always used that... 

Oh and I agree with who ever said Salvatore has to be strangled for killing Chewie...


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## Hand of Evil (May 26, 2004)

Well, let me say we use the word drow (word spelled backwards) a good bit, go figure, but it has only been used 77 times in the Title of a post.    

How do you say it:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60929&highlight=drow

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14697&highlight=drow

Now I think this is interesting because we can see a change in table language as younger gamers come into the fold.

2002 67% Cow - 254 votes
2003 77% Cow - 299 votes
2004 XX% Cow -


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## Deadguy (May 26, 2004)

As the gods have decreed, always remember 'How Now, Brown Drow?'. Couldn't be simpler! 

The truth is, pronounce it as you've always pronounced it - we'll know what you are talking about. The last thing D&D needs is any more divisions!


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## Snoweel (May 26, 2004)

/me runs to post the first ever roleplaying-pointbuy-Drowcow vs rollplaying-randomgeneration-Drowthrow poll...


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## diaglo (May 26, 2004)

JRRNeiklot said:
			
		

> As in "bow."





or row. 


but not bow or row.


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## drakhe (May 26, 2004)

*Funny how people's minds change over the years...*

For years, it was drow(oh), and I didn't like drow(cow) at all (don't ask me why,it's pure feeling). But then I played hordes of the underdark (NWN) and gotten used to hearing drow(cow) that I kinda switched.

here's a proposition: why not use drow(oh) for a single drow and drow(cow) for the plural?

Anyhoe, drow will allways be drow (until you meat Drizzt, and start to ask "How do you pronounce Drizzt????") - Can of worms anyone?

(btw: I pronounce drizzt as drist(mist), while ome of my buddies insist on driz'zt or even drizit... go figure)


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## tetsujin28 (May 26, 2004)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> My immediate circle of players had always pronounced "Drow" as rhyming with "go". Then one day, I met a player who pronounced it as rhyming with "cow", which I thought was thoroughly wrong and hideous!
> 
> A year or so ago that Vin Deasil(sp?) person was on the Conan O'Brian Show and went off on some tangent regarding his "Specialist Mage Drow" (with "Drow" as in "cow") and I was horrified. I thought "Great. Now the whole gaming world will pronounce it incorrectly".
> 
> Anyway, how do you pronounce it?



You are all wrong and heinous. It's as in "cow". Always has been. I have no idea where the incredibly wrong-thinking "go" pronunciation came from.


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## Hand of Evil (May 26, 2004)

See official answer:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=219714&postcount=48


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## d4 (May 26, 2004)

i usually pronounce it "dark elf."

saves a lot of trouble.


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## HellHound (May 26, 2004)

I pronounce it

Bou-Lay.


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## Umbran (May 26, 2004)

How it is _officially_ supposed to be pronounced is irrelevant.  My apologies to Gary and all the other folks who originated it.  The choice between prnounciations is simple...

Choose between:

"Oh wow!  It's a drow!"  and "Oh no!  It's a drow!"

For my money, rhyming drow with cow leads towards nasal pronounciation.  The name of this race should strike the heart, raise dread in all who hear it.  "Cow"-style just doesn't do that.


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## Grodd JoJoJo (May 26, 2004)

Okay, best answer I can give - I pronounce it "droe."
I do this because it's obviously derived from the word "trow," which is pronounced "troe." See the British folklore expert Katherine Briggs (Encyclopedia of Fairies, Fairies in Tradition and Literature) for this one.


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## Alaric_Prympax (May 26, 2004)

Since the first time I saw the Drow in AD&D Module A2 Secrets of the Slavers Stockade I have always rhymed it with 'go'.  It never for an instant occurred to me to rhyme it with cow.  Drow(go) sound much more dark, dank, and menancing then something that rhymes with cow.  It really doesn't matter to me who else pronounces it rhyming with cow because my game is... well... my game, not theirs.  What are the Drow going to do?  Storm into my house and confiscate all my D&D books during my next game session? 

I'll tell you something too.  Drow IMC are still CE the way they were meant to be since 1e, not NE, so when they turn on each other trying to divide my hoard of books; I'll get away and counterattack when they're still arguing. 

How's that for opening up another can of worms.


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## Syntallah (May 26, 2004)

Nightchill said:
			
		

> Not only has it been done before, but it's been commented on by the designers themselves (and the word's origins explained)




For those of us new to the boards, does anyone have that origin explanation?  I for one, would be interested in seeing it.


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## rgard (May 26, 2004)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> My immediate circle of players had always pronounced "Drow" as rhyming with "go". Then one day, I met a player who pronounced it as rhyming with "cow", which I thought was thoroughly wrong and hideous!
> 
> A year or so ago that Vin Deasil(sp?) person was on the Conan O'Brian Show and went off on some tangent regarding his "Specialist Mage Drow" (with "Drow" as in "cow") and I was horrified. I thought "Great. Now the whole gaming world will pronounce it incorrectly".
> 
> Anyway, how do you pronounce it?




We've always pronounced it as rhyming with 'cow.'  In French, the word for Drow is 'Drache' which rhymes with 'Vache', the French word for cow.

"Fetchez la vache!"


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## glass (May 26, 2004)

ltclnlbrain said:
			
		

> I have never once heard it rhyme with 'go' (or 'bow' for that matter).




Apparently, it is pronounced 'wooooosh'!



			
				ltclnlbrain said:
			
		

> That pronunciation seems weird and scary to me.




Aren't drow supposed to be weird and scary?

glass.


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## glass (May 26, 2004)

I  answered 'both ways'. I always assumed it was drowgo, until I found out that it is officially drowcow. At first I didn't like it, but now I am just guided by whoever is DMing. I pronounce it as they do.

If  I am  DMing, it is pronounced 'Jerren'!   


glass.


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## LizardWizard (May 26, 2004)

Drow rhymes with 'cow'. Period.
And it doesn't matter if 99% Russian roleplayers disagree with me .


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## Trickstergod (May 26, 2004)

Drow as in "go" sounds too...Old English for me. A bit too subdued due to that. Not how I envision the race. It makes me think of humble plump monks or the like, of the sort you might find a Norseman putting an arrow into. 

Drow as in cow, however, seems to flow better - it's more fluid. Which is how I'd envision most elven words as working.


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## Hand of Evil (May 26, 2004)

Syntallah said:
			
		

> For those of us new to the boards, does anyone have that origin explanation?  I for one, would be interested in seeing it.




I think it is in the links I provided on page one.


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## ironmani (May 26, 2004)

Jorath Calar said:
			
		

> Oh and I agree with who ever said Salvatore has to be strangled for killing Chewie...



That would be me! ::high fives::


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## Malar's Cow (May 26, 2004)

I pronounce it "overdone"
Alternate pronunciation "hackneyed"
Usage: "The whole dark elf focus is akin to beating a dead drow."


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## the Jester (May 26, 2004)

Drow rhymes with cow, at least imc.


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## Emiricol (May 26, 2004)

Like cow.  If that pronunciation is good enough for Vin Diesel, it's good enough for you!

 (j/k)


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## Chronosome (May 26, 2004)

You could always incorporate both into your campaign--with regional dialect and all.
Then you could have these debates in taverns with NPCs. 

"No, no! It's _drow_!"

"My ears--ow! It's _drow_!"

Then a dusky elf can show up and refer to himself by some cool fourteen syllable native word. Then kill them. 

(BTW, I've always pronounced it like "cow".)


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## Asmo (May 26, 2004)

Our group has always used "draw".
It doesn´t matter, whatever I say  it´s still "draw".   

Asmo


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## JRRNeiklot (May 26, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Wow, watch that joke go over everyone's heads!
> 
> Don't worry - _I_ found it amusing...!
> 
> -Hyp.




Lol.  I'm glad somebody got it.


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## Tuzenbach (May 27, 2004)

Chronosome said:
			
		

> You could always incorporate both into your campaign--with regional dialect and all.
> Then you could have these debates in taverns with NPCs.
> 
> "No, no! It's _drow_!"
> ...






Actually, I'm eventually going to use it as a light-hearted plot contrivance. Two huge clans of Drow wage war against one another for the "Right Of Pronounciation"! Of course, the winning side will be the ones that favour the 'rhymes with go' version!


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## Faerl'Elghinn (May 27, 2004)

I thoght it was supposed to rhyme with "broccoli"...


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## Anime Kidd (May 28, 2004)

After replying to this thread, Ive been saying Drow (cow) in my head and have become to realize it aint that bad after all, but no matter what, I still prefer the Go version anyday.


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## dead (May 28, 2004)

Look up your dictionaries. It's pronounced to rhyme with "cow".

EGG didn't invent the word drow. It's been around for a long time meaning: "Evil spirit" or some such.


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## Bran Blackbyrd (May 28, 2004)

Yo, bro, here comes a drow! 
I'm gonna have to kill him like the last bozo.
Uh oh, uh oh.
Everybody say uh oh, uh oh.
I'll never be po'. 
Gonna steal that drow's dough.
That's what lootin' chumps is fo'.

Umm...no thanks. 
Drow rhymes with now, cow, plow...
Always has, AFAIC, and always will.
Plus it's official, which certainly doesn't mean anyone has to follow suit (it just means we're right, and the drow = no people are very, very wrong ).

Edit: BTW, please let these drow pronunciation topics die.


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## Snoweel (May 28, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> For my money, rhyming drow with cow leads towards nasal pronounciation.  The name of this race should strike the heart, raise dread in all who hear it.  "Cow"-style just doesn't do that.




I beg to differ.

I always envisioned the Drowcow language as being incredibly harsh and nasal-sounding, like they're snarling with every sentence.

If you've ever heard Italian spoken by somebody who talks through their nose, you've experienced the dread raised by Drows speaking.

Snow "One Drow, two Drows" eel


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## Thanee (May 28, 2004)

We say drow, like bow, go, etc. (Option #1).

 The _real_ dark elf related pronounciation question however is, how to say it with the Warhammer Fantasy dark elves, who are called druchii !?

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Snoweel (May 28, 2004)

DROO-kee-i

Just a guess...


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## WanderingMonster (May 28, 2004)

I'm sure this will end the debate 

From rec.games.frp.dnd:



> *Note: the "correct" pronunciation of Drow is taken from Page 9 of
> _A Grand Tour of the Realms_ (2nd edition Forgotten Realms boxed set)
> where it states, "Dark elves, also called Drow (pronounced to rhyme
> with now or how)..."*


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## Davelozzi (May 28, 2004)

I acknowledge that the _correct_ answer according to the powers that be is that it rhymes with "cow", but I've been pronouncing it as if it rhymed with "go" (or "crow" as I like to think of it) for so long that I'm not about to switch now.  I voted for the way I say it, not the correct way.


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## ConnorSB (May 29, 2004)

maybe the Drow (as in cow) are one elven subrace, and the Drow (as in go) are another, similar subrace. I mean, if we have one elven subrace for every niche, why not two?


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## Frilf (May 29, 2004)

d4 said:
			
		

> i usually pronounce it "dark elf."
> 
> saves a lot of trouble.




Ditto that. Beat me to it 

Failing that, I'd go with the "cow" version. I'm from the Midwest and I'm sentimental about bovines - evil, devious bovines that worship spiders. So sue me!


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## Sejs (May 29, 2004)

I've always pronounced it as rhyming with "go", because I have a very hard time feeling intimidated by the rhymes-with-cow pronunciation.  "Go" drow seems more ... clipped.  Cold and hard.  "Cow" drow feels more ... soft and fluffy.  Like they're a big comfy pillow of evil.


Though, as I usually run in FR, my dark elves almost exclusivly refer to themselves as Illythiiri, seeing how drow is the equivelant of a racial slur.


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## Thanee (May 29, 2004)

Sejs said:
			
		

> Like they're a big comfy pillow of evil.




They must be... considering how many people like them... 



> Though, as I usually run in FR, my dark elves almost exclusivly refer to themselves as Illythiiri, seeing how drow is the equivelant of a racial slur.




Yep, I doubt, they would call themselves by the name the elves gave them after their exile.

Bye
Thanee


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## Xune (May 29, 2004)

*Drow Pain*

Drow as in oww that hurt, Droe sounds like a mentally challenged person with a boat. Hope that doesn't offend. Droe doesn't sound harsh or cut off at all. It is too soft sounding. Drow, one quick syllable, harsh survives only for a se ond. In the end though the only thing that maters is the players preference. If you want to call them pansy spider guys go for it.


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## xbrokenxswordx (May 29, 2004)

It also rhymed with cow for me. And I had seen the word a good two-three years before ever talking to another person about it. For one, the cow or bow as in to bow pronunciation has a much more elvish feel to it. While drow are evil, they are still elvish and should fundamentally feel elvish in their language. It's a softer sounding name, and a bit more sinister for it.

Droe just makes me think of d'oh. And that's not something that inspires fear. At all.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 29, 2004)

I'm a drow (cow) kinda guy, an opinion reinforced by the game's contributors/creators, and that's how I voted.

However, "dark elf" and "Bane Sidthe" also crop up in my campaigns.


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## Creamsteak (May 29, 2004)

Drow as in cow. Thats the way it be.

Droe sounds like they are all fatigued... Orc says "ugh... droe" before he passes out from their sleep poison arrows.


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## woodelf (May 29, 2004)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Now I think this is interesting because we can see a change in table language as younger gamers come into the fold.
> 
> 2002 67% Cow - 254 votes
> 2003 77% Cow - 299 votes
> 2004 XX% Cow -




However, that hardly is the whole trend. I was around to read pretty much teh first D&D use of "drow", in the drow series modules (or did they get mentioned in Greyhawk before then? i forget). It wasn't until '92 that i *ever* heard drow rhymed with go. It is only among younger [than me] gamers that i've ever heard that pronunciation (which is not to discount any not-younger gamers in this thread that're following that pronunciation, just that i've never personally encountered it). I'm actually surprised, if the trends of the threads on EnWorld are actually indicative, because i would've expected to see it trending the opposite direction. Especially since, if we're going to generalize about whole swaths of gamers by age, i'd expect the older gamers to do things like consult a dictionary--or be old enough to have read the pronunciation guide published in Dragon--while the younger ones are the less-literate and/or less inclined to care about the historic pronunciation or any weight of authority it might have.

Here's a thought that comes to mind: anybody here who both predates the Forgotten Realms version of drow elves and pronounces it to rhyme with "go"?


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## woodelf (May 29, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> The choice between prnounciations is simple...
> 
> Choose between:
> 
> ...




Why should the name strike dread into the heart? The race sure doesn't. IMHO, drow are silly, not scary--they make me think more of the guy in middle school who thought he was all ninja-riffic (but hadn't actually studied any martial arts or the like), not a Chow Yun Fat character wanting me dead, to use an analogy. 

Then again, i've always thought the borg were silly rather than scary, too, so maybe i'm just weird.


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## Legend (May 29, 2004)

*This is making me nostalgic for the old days.*

The first time I remember seeing this thread was on the old USENET D&D group, about ten years ago.  As I recall, it went on for months, and drove everyone nuts.

Carry on.


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## drakhe (May 30, 2004)

*Reason for pronunciation...*

I've been mulling over this for the last couple of days and just now, I figured out why I originaly pronounced it drow (go).

I figured drow(go) because drow(cow) sounded British to me and since most gamers I know are either US folks or use American english as opposed to British  english, that kinda stuck (but then offcourse, the "sounds brittish" was/is a very personal impresion)


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## Ravellion (May 31, 2004)

I scowl and growl at those who mispronounce the word for the foul drow. Really, they should be mindful of how to do it by now.

Rav


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## Michael Morris (May 31, 2004)

Carnifex said:
			
		

> Ah, good to see the old traditions kept up.
> 
> Someone should keep a tally of just how often the 'how do you pronounce drow' threads come up.




According to the search feature there are 10 threads containing the words "drow" and "pronounciation" (Yes, I know that's a mispelling but it's a common one), 33 threads containing the words "drow" and "pronounce", and 17 threads containing "drow" and "pronunciation."

That said folks, lighten up when a "old" topic comes up again. Just cause you've seen the topic 33 times doesn't mean everyone here has seen it.


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## Olive (May 31, 2004)

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> That said folks, lighten up when a "old" topic comes up again. Just cause you've seen the topic 33 times doesn't mean everyone here has seen it.




Totally. I've been on here since forever (before 3e came out anyway), but not everyone has, and there's no reason why new people can't enjoy these conversations is there?

Anyway, here's the Gary Gygax quote:



			
				Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> When I discovered the "drow" listing in an old, unexpurgated dictionary, created the race for the D&D game system, I pronounced the name as to rhyme with cow. Ah, but what's in a name? So if someone prefers it to rhyme with crow, that's acceptible too--as in many words, there can be alternate pronunciations that are correct.


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## woodelf (May 31, 2004)

drakhe said:
			
		

> I figured drow(go) because drow(cow) sounded British to me and since most gamers I know are either US folks or use American english as opposed to British  english, that kinda stuck (but then offcourse, the "sounds brittish" was/is a very personal impresion)




Funny, drow-rhymes-with-go is the one that sounds British to me.


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## Michael Morris (May 31, 2004)

Olive said:
			
		

> Anyway, here's the Gary Gygax quote:




That quote reminds me of a subtle fact about my setting that only 2 players have picked up on in 12 years - the pronunciation of place names and words in the setting vary - sometimes considerably - within the setting. And those variants are directly linked to certain areas. Astute PC's have learned that NPC's are unconsciously telling them a bit about where they're from just how they pronounce words.

For instance, Dalze is pronounced "Dahll-zee" by the locals, but in the western part of the country, not 40 miles away, the "zee" is lost and it becomes "Dolls" as in childrens Dolls.  To the south the word is pronounced Dohlssee, and to the north Dalzay.

Though my world has no drow, who's to say that drow doesn't rhyme with "cow" when the drow themselves use it, but the pronunciation "droh" is used among dwarves and may even be taken as an insult by drow (In the same manner that African-Americans take offense at a certain mispronunciation of negro).


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## pogre (May 31, 2004)

As others have suggested:
'därk'elf


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## Olive (May 31, 2004)

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> That quote reminds me of a subtle fact about my setting that only 2 players have picked up on in 12 years - the pronunciation of place names and words in the setting vary - sometimes considerably - within the setting. And those variants are directly linked to certain areas. Astute PC's have learned that NPC's are unconsciously telling them a bit about where they're from just how they pronounce words.




It's like when players ask how something is spelt,. Mu old DM used to say 'how it sounds', arguing that consistant spelling is a feature of the modern world.


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## Deadguy (May 31, 2004)

Olive said:
			
		

> It's like when players ask how something is spelt,. Mu old DM used to say 'how it sounds', arguing that consistant spelling is a feature of the modern world.



That is, of course, quite true. _However_ I have found that taking the time to spell out a name can save confusion later on. I have seen occasions when players dig up a note of an NPC months later, read what they transcribed and have the DM go 'huh?' Players by no means always hear a name right - you quickly relaise that everyone has subtle differences in accent that can obscure a name.

As a side note: as DM, always say the names of NPCs out loud to yourself when you create them. If you struggle to say the name when you come to it in your notes, chances are your players will too. And worse, a mispronounced name can ruin an otherwise good NPC (as the ref who included 'Aurochbalaenus' found out when he mangled it, and found the poor fellow named 'Orrible-anus' everafter!


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## Anime Kidd (Jun 2, 2004)

xbrokenxswordx said:
			
		

> *snip*
> 
> Droe just makes me think of d'oh. And that's not something that inspires fear. At all.




Great... Now everytime I see Homer Simpson say 'D'oh' Im gonna start thinking he's saying drow (go).


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## Jehosephat (Jun 4, 2004)

woodelf said:
			
		

> not a Chow Yun Fat character wanting me dead, to use an analogy.





Does Chow rhyme with go or cow?


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## einsamste (Dec 2, 2004)

*drow*

yea i know.. but i had to say my 2 cents =D

i wanted to respond to this following post from woodelf:

However, that hardly is the whole trend. I was around to read pretty much teh first D&D use of "drow", in the drow series modules (or did they get mentioned in Greyhawk before then? i forget). It wasn't until '92 that i *ever* heard drow rhymed with go. It is only among younger [than me] gamers that i've ever heard that pronunciation (which is not to discount any not-younger gamers in this thread that're following that pronunciation, just that i've never personally encountered it). I'm actually surprised, if the trends of the threads on EnWorld are actually indicative, because i would've expected to see it trending the opposite direction. Especially since, if we're going to generalize about whole swaths of gamers by age, i'd expect the older gamers to do things like consult a dictionary--or be old enough to have read the pronunciation guide published in Dragon--while the younger ones are the less-literate and/or less inclined to care about the historic pronunciation or any weight of authority it might have.

Here's a thought that comes to mind: anybody here who both predates the Forgotten Realms version of drow elves and pronounces it to rhyme with "go"?
__________________
woodelf


-- response --
Welll... i started playing dungeons and dragons in 1980, which is generally longer than most the people born that generally replied to this thread i imagine. i still have a origional red book, uncolored dice and pencils in a box. and no you dont want my old school opinion of the recent wizard of coasts ruleset. lol. ahem. anyways. =D So i guesse i count in your catagory and the exception from your experience (ive seen only the oppsoite of what you encountered). From day one me and my friends said it like 'go' and not like 'cow'. It had been like this thoughout my life with anyone i met until i head it for the first time said like 'cow' just a couple years ago. I cant change it its been too long. It just sounds wrong to me, but thats becuase its all i ever knew. Generally ive payed it no mind, and of course the matter isnt that big of a deal. But im just saying ive built homemade drow modules for over 20 years or written storys about them and always called them that. This is how i look at it though. I know Gary Gygax is reported as saying he origionally made it to be like 'cow' but more so i agree with his second statement that followed it doesnt matter what anyone calls them. Its all good. Generally most anyone that knows me and my background history that ive run ino recently that said it like 'cow' has every time changed and started saying it the way i do, just becuase they look at me as one of those old school kind of guys so i must be right lol. ah.. the respect. *grins*. 

Something now id like to point out that hasnt been pointed out, that though my journeys around the usa, i have ran into people that say things many different ways, no matter what the origional phrase was. Roof. Root. Hoof are good examples. Up north people say these words like 'ruff rutt and huph' while down south its 'rufe rute (as in boot.. striaght sound), and same with hoof (hufe). We can go back to the original origin and tell people its wrong.. or do what the dictionarys did.. and gary gygax with drow.. and say is either one and at this point its irrelivant. The dictionarys even added both ways of saying it to those words. 
So everyone wins cept the snotty legalists. =)
Sorry for the longevity of the response, but i thought this was a funny topic and it was interesting. Also thought some folks might find it interesting to hear an 'old' farts version from the 'other' perspective.
Peace.
-Jason


----------



## reanjr (Dec 2, 2004)

RithTheAwakener said:
			
		

> i completely agree. drow(cow) sounds weak and frail to me, whereas drow(oh) sounds devious(spelling ) and powerful..




Would it help if it were spelled Drau and pronounced rhyming with cow?

The correct pronunciation from Sean Reynolds is rhyming with cow.

Incorrectly pronounced, it makes me think of hoodrats.

"yo, what up Drow?"

In addition, the cow pronunciation seems more phonetic.  If it were like go, why not just spell it Dro?  I don't understand why people would ignore the "w" or think it was extraneous...


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## painandgreed (Dec 2, 2004)

Whenever there are instances like this within RL, I tend to envoke them into my world. Perhaps some Drow rhyme it with "cow" while other ones rhyme it with "row". After all, are they speaking in an Upperdrak accent or with a Lowerdark accent. One might be derogatory and an insult if used to the wrong person.


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## reanjr (Dec 2, 2004)

einsamste said:
			
		

> Something now id like to point out that hasnt been pointed out, that though my journeys around the usa, i have ran into people that say things many different ways, no matter what the origional phrase was. Roof. Root. Hoof are good examples. Up north people say these words like 'ruff rutt and huph' while down south its 'rufe rute (as in boot.. striaght sound), and same with hoof (hufe). We can go back to the original origin and tell people its wrong.. or do what the dictionarys did.. and gary gygax with drow.. and say is either one and at this point its irrelivant. The dictionarys even added both ways of saying it to those words.
> -Jason




Midwesterners, considered by many philologists to be the most correct speakers of American English, pronounce Roof and Hoof with a short oo sound, and Root with a long oo sound.  They are all correct in either form, though, as you said.


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## reanjr (Dec 2, 2004)

Deadguy said:
			
		

> That is, of course, quite true. _However_ I have found that taking the time to spell out a name can save confusion later on. I have seen occasions when players dig up a note of an NPC months later, read what they transcribed and have the DM go 'huh?' Players by no means always hear a name right - you quickly relaise that everyone has subtle differences in accent that can obscure a name.
> 
> As a side note: as DM, always say the names of NPCs out loud to yourself when you create them. If you struggle to say the name when you come to it in your notes, chances are your players will too. And worse, a mispronounced name can ruin an otherwise good NPC (as the ref who included 'Aurochbalaenus' found out when he mangled it, and found the poor fellow named 'Orrible-anus' everafter!




Pronouncing it Orrible-anus would just be wrong by English standards (assuming the orrible is pronounced like horrible).  In English, multisyllabic words are prnounced with a single primary stress and alternating secondary stress.  Orrible-anus would only be a proper pronunciation if the original were something like Auroch Balaenus or Auroch-balaenus.  You really can't help those who cannot pronounce their native tongue.


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## hrafnagud (Dec 2, 2004)

I'm a 'drow' as in 'cow' kinda guy.  I bow to the OED.



			
				reanjr said:
			
		

> I don't understand why people would ignore the "w" or think it was extraneous...





Surely you jest!  How do you pronounce Crow?  Or any of a hundred other words I could list if I had the energy.  Language is rarely so predictable.


----------



## reanjr (Dec 2, 2004)

hrafnagud said:
			
		

> I'm a 'drow' as in 'cow' kinda guy.  I bow to the OED.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The English language is a hodge-podge mix of different languages and simplifications of old words and spellings.  It is a horrible language to learn to spell phonetically.  But why would someone, making up a new word, decide to spell it as horribly as the rest of the English language?

That doesn't make sense to me.  When I create a new word or name for a campaign, I spell it as phonetically as possible.  Spelling it any other way would make no sense.  If you are trying to simulate a different language's spelling system, you must realize that Middle English and Old English had no "right" way of spelling things.  So you might as well make it as simple as possible.  Even if you redefine the phonetics of a fantasy language, it still makes sense to spell everything phonetically, even if it is not English phonetics.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Dec 2, 2004)

No, it only makes sense to spell things perfectly phonetically if you assume your fantasy language exists in a vacuum.

If, perchance, *other* fantasy languages also existed - say, Elven and Dwarven, for purposes of argument - various "standard" spellings for Common might be influenced by elven or dwarven script.


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## Ero Gaki (Dec 2, 2004)

Drow as is cow, or how, or wow. That's the way it is. And that's the way it should be. Deal with it all of you "go" people.


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## reanjr (Dec 2, 2004)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> No, it only makes sense to spell things perfectly phonetically if you assume your fantasy language exists in a vacuum.
> 
> If, perchance, *other* fantasy languages also existed - say, Elven and Dwarven, for purposes of argument - various "standard" spellings for Common might be influenced by elven or dwarven script.




I understand that.  But our own languages on Earth didn't have "correct" spellings until fairly recently.  Assuming this is the case for your fantasy languages, then why bother spelling anything "correctly"?

And if you are not trying to spell anything "correctly," you might as well spell it phonetically.

Adding non-phonetic spellings to words doesn't add realism to a campaign unless you change the spelling of the words from document to document.  But then, you would have to know how each word is spoken to simulate the incorrect spellings of the uneducated.

You would then need a reference for how the word is spoken so that you can go back to it later.

What would you use for this reference?  A phonetic spelling.

[edit]  Not to mention the fact that you are already imposing the English alphabet upon a language that never saw anything like it.  When transliterating to English, most often you come up with a phonetic system to represent the language.  The best example I can think of is Tolkien's Sindarin and Quenya.  I don't know if the languages are phonetic in the Elvish Tengwar, and it doesn't really matter.  They're both phonetic when transliterated to our alphabet.


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## Deadguy (Dec 2, 2004)

reanjr said:
			
		

> Pronouncing it Orrible-anus would just be wrong by English standards (assuming the orrible is pronounced like horrible).  In English, multisyllabic words are prnounced with a single primary stress and alternating secondary stress.  Orrible-anus would only be a proper pronunciation if the original were something like Auroch Balaenus or Auroch-balaenus.  You really can't help those who cannot pronounce their native tongue.



Well, in fairness to the DM, 'Orrible-anus' was what we, the players, came up with when the DM choked on saying the name out loud. He'd assembled the name (from Latin, obviously) on paper but never said it out loud. I think we settled on 'or-OCK-bal-AYN-us' later on. But we could always 'hear' 'Orrible-anus' in our heads!


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## Keoki (Dec 2, 2004)

*Frank Mentzer's take*

According to Frank Mentzer's article "Ay pronunseeAYshun gyd" in DRAGON 93, it's pronounced both ways. As far as I know, this is the most "official" word on the subject that's been published.


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## Thorntangle (Dec 2, 2004)

Official?  Well how about the D&D FAQ on the WotC website:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDArchives_FAQ.asp

Aarakocra: a-rah-KO-krah
Arquebus: AR-keh-bus
Baatezu: bay-AH-teh-zu or BAH-teh-zu
Bardiche: bar-DEESH
Bulette: boo-LAY
Catoblepus: kuht-OH-bleh-puhs, also kah-TA-ble-pus
Chatkcha: CHAT-k-cha (thri-kreen throwing weapon)
Chimera: ky-MAEE-ruh, or ky-MAIR-ruh (rhymes with "care of")
Chitin: KITE-in
Cuirass: KWEE-rass
*Drow: DRAU (as in drowsy; rhymes with now and how)*
Dweomer: DWEH-mer (rhymes with "hem her"), or DWIH-mer; sometimes DWEE-mer
Falchion: FAL-chun
Geas: GEE-ass, or GYASS (both with a hard "g")
Gygax: GY-gaks
Halberd: HAL-berd, (not HAL-bread)
Herb: ERB
Ioun: EYE-oon
Iuz: YOOZ or EE-uz
Ixitxachitl: iks-it-ZATCH-i-til or ik-zit-zah-chih-tull
Lich: LITCH (as in ditch), *not* LIKE or LICK
Lycanthrope: LY-kun-throhp, LY-kan-throhp (like lichen rope/my tan rope)
Lycanthropy: ly-KAN-thruh-pee
Mage: MAGE (as in age), *not* MADGE (as in badger)
Melee: MAY-lay
Otyugh: AHT-yuhg
Sahuagin: sah-HWAH-gin
Scythe: syth (rhymes with tithe)
Svirfneblin: svirf-NEB-lin
Tanar'ri: tah-NAHR-ree
Tarrasque: tah-RASK
THAC0: either THAK-oh, or THAKE-oh
Vargouille: var-GWEEL
Vrock: vrahk
Wyvern: WIH-vern (as in did learn), or WHY-vern
Zaknafein: zack-NAY-fee-in


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## fredramsey (Dec 2, 2004)

I'm sure that there will be some who would say I shouldn't even post this since I can't completely cite the reference, but...

I was a firm "OH" pronouncer, but recently I ran across a historical reference for Drow, and it was pronounced like "Cow". So, I changed.

Sorry, I can't for the life of me remember exactly what series, but it was a series of articles on RPG.NET where the author did historical research on Clerics, Dwarves, Elves, etc. But I remember it being pretty compelling.


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## Psion (Dec 2, 2004)

Thorntangle said:
			
		

> Official?  Well how about the D&D FAQ on the WotC website:
> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDArchives_FAQ.asp




I agree with the list's interpretation. But AFAIAC:



> Bulette: boo-LAY




Makes the whole list suspect.


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## fredramsey (Dec 2, 2004)

It's french. Otherwise, it would be spelled Bullet.



			
				Psion said:
			
		

> I agree with the list's interpretation. But AFAIAC:
> 
> Bulette: boo-LAY
> 
> Makes the whole list suspect.


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## Thorntangle (Dec 2, 2004)

Bulette as Boo-lay always makes someone's day when they enter the fray to play.


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## Thanee (Dec 2, 2004)

Thorntangle said:
			
		

> Melee: MAY-lay



 I usually say me-LEE, is that wrong?



> Scythe: syth (rhymes with tithe)



 Hmm... now that's one word I would not suspect to speak with a silent c...

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Sejs (Dec 2, 2004)

I love how several entries on that list have multiple correct pronounciations, but oh wait! This one.. yeah, there's only one correct way to say _that_.  Whatever.

Just say it however you feel fits best, and stop worrying what's correct.


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## Faraer (Dec 2, 2004)

The French pronunciation of bulette is something like _boolett_ -- bulet would be _boolay_.







			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> I usually say me-LEE, is that wrong?



Yes. The Americans have this weird idea that foreign languages, especially French, stress the last syllable of words. The syllables of melee should get equal stress.


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## fredramsey (Dec 2, 2004)

Ok, I can see that. But definitely not like something shot from a gun   

Of course, you could just say, "Land Shark!"   



			
				Faraer said:
			
		

> The French pronunication of bulette is something like _boolett_ -- bulet would be _boolay_.Yes. The Americans have this weird idea that foreign languages, especially French, stress the last syllable of words. The syllables of melee should get equal stress.


----------



## Desdichado (Dec 2, 2004)

woodelf said:
			
		

> Here's a thought that comes to mind: anybody here who both predates the Forgotten Realms version of drow elves and pronounces it to rhyme with "go"?



Yep.  Me, at least.


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## Thanee (Dec 2, 2004)

Faraer said:
			
		

> The French pronunciation of bulette is something like _boolett_ -- bulet would be _boolay_.



 That's what I also thought... boolett...



> Yes. The Americans have this weird idea that foreign languages, especially French, stress the last syllable of words. The syllables of melee should get equal stress.



 Was more meant as compared to MAY-lay in the list, which seems to be a complete different (and rather weird, to me at least) pronounciation.

 I do not really stress the last syllables so extreme as the caps might hint at. 

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Turjan (Dec 2, 2004)

Faraer said:
			
		

> The French pronunciation of bulette is something like _boolett_ -- bulet would be _boolay_




Nearly. It's more like by-LETT with the y like in "mystic" and not like in "by" 

There's not much to discuss about it, either, because the pronunciation of letters in French is fixed, unlike in English, where this doesn't really follow rules.


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## Wolf72 (Dec 2, 2004)

drow: chose both ways ... it makes everyone's life easier.


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## Psion (Dec 2, 2004)

Turjan said:
			
		

> Nearly. It's more like by-LETT with the y like in "mystic" and not like in "by"
> 
> There's not much to discuss about it, either, because the pronunciation of letters in French is fixed, unlike in English, where this doesn't really follow rules.




Right, but at least in English, where the rules are mixed, it's because we ripped off another language. "ETTE" does not may an "ay" sound in any language I know of. My impression is that someone looked at "ETTE" and thought of the French "et" and pronounced it that way, which is WRONG WRONG WRONG. French uses the "ette" construct a lot, but it's not pronounced the same as the "contrary to English" "et" sound.


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## fredramsey (Dec 2, 2004)

My name is spelt 'Luxury Yacht' but it's pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove.


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## painandgreed (Dec 2, 2004)

> Yes. The Americans have this weird idea that foreign languages, especially French, stress the last syllable of words. The syllables of melee should get equal stress.




We just do that to let others know we're speaking the American variant of the word rather than actually trying to use the foreign version.


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## glass (Dec 2, 2004)

Psion said:
			
		

> I agree with the list's interpretation. But AFAIAC:
> 
> Bulette: boo-LAY
> 
> Makes the whole list suspect.




IIRC, boo-LAY was the official pronunciation in the 2e days, it said so right there in the MC. Which doesn't make it any less silly.

The 3e designers obviously agreed, because it is now pronounced boo-LET (again, IIRC, right there in the MM).


glass.


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## Driddle (Dec 2, 2004)

"Luxury Yacht"


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## The_Universe (Dec 2, 2004)

drakhe said:
			
		

> For years, it was drow(oh), and I didn't like drow(cow) at all (don't ask me why,it's pure feeling). But then I played hordes of the underdark (NWN) and gotten used to hearing drow(cow) that I kinda switched.
> 
> here's a proposition: why not use drow(oh) for a single drow and drow(cow) for the plural?
> 
> ...



 I'm a "how now brown drow" for the race.

For the infamous ranger, if I'm being careful, I try to say, "Dritst" as a one syllable word.  If I'm being less concerned about such things, I just say "Drits."


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## woodelf (Dec 2, 2004)

Thorntangle said:
			
		

> Official?  Well how about the D&D FAQ on the WotC website:
> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDArchives_FAQ.asp
> 
> Arquebus: AR-keh-bus
> ...



 Am i the only one that finds it a bit wierd to include a whole bunch of words that'll be in any dictionary? At least, for all those, they got the pronunciation right.


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## Turjan (Dec 2, 2004)

Psion said:
			
		

> Right, but at least in English, where the rules are mixed, it's because we ripped off another language. "ETTE" does not may an "ay" sound in any language I know of. My impression is that someone looked at "ETTE" and thought of the French "et" and pronounced it that way, which is WRONG WRONG WRONG. French uses the "ette" construct a lot, but it's not pronounced the same as the "contrary to English" "et" sound.




Oh, I agree with you on this. I just wanted to express that the French pronunciation is clear, because there are definite pronunciation rules. "-ette" is the female form of "-et" and pronounced as you said. As the word "bulette" screams "inspired by French", I'd never have the idea to pronounce it "boo-LAY". The double "t" is there for a reason .

Then again, I'm not really surprised by any American use of foreign words anymore. I still remember the first time when I went into an American restaurant. I took the menu and was desperately trying to find a main course, though I was surprised about the vast selection of starters they had .


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## woodelf (Dec 2, 2004)

Faraer said:
			
		

> The French pronunciation of bulette is something like _boolett_ -- bulet would be _boolay_.Yes. The Americans have this weird idea that foreign languages, especially French, stress the last syllable of words. The syllables of melee should get equal stress.



 I dunno who these "Americans" are of which you speak, but i've never heard anything but the proper pronunication of melee in RL, and the dictionary certainly knows how it's pronounced ("mei'lei").

 Oh, and my tongue-in-cheek characterization of French is pretty much just the opposite of that: i sometimes joke that the secret to pronouncing French words is to just completely ignore the last syllable, because it's silent.


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## woodelf (Dec 2, 2004)

[melee and scythe, respectively]


			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> I usually say me-LEE, is that wrong?
> 
> Hmm... now that's one word I would not suspect to speak with a silent c...



 Why? Just think of scimitar or science.

 As for 'melee': yup, you're wrong. Wrong vowels, wrong accent.


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## Turjan (Dec 2, 2004)

woodelf said:
			
		

> I dunno who these "Americans" are of which you speak, but i've never heard anything but the proper pronunication of melee in RL, and the dictionary certainly knows how it's pronounced ("mei'lei").
> 
> Oh, and my tongue-in-cheek characterization of French is pretty much just the opposite of that: i sometimes joke that the secret to pronouncing French words is to just completely ignore the last syllable, because it's silent.




Well, the idea probably comes from "melee" being originally French (mêlée), and there the stress is, indeed, on the second syllable (which, of course, is not silent ).


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## Algolei (Dec 2, 2004)

I prefer to rhyme "drow" with "go," similar to the way in which the word "trow" [to think, to suppose] is pronounced.

However, my nephews prefer to rhyme "drow" with "cow" (the official pronunciation), and as I play in their group, I too have acquired this more popular variant.


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## Faraer (Dec 2, 2004)

In case anyone is in any doubt, and cares, Bob Salvatore has always pronounced Drizzt _drist_.







			
				woodelf said:
			
		

> Am i the only one that finds it a bit wierd to include a whole bunch of words that'll be in any dictionary? At least, for all those, they got the pronunciation right.



Except for the silly dropped-h US 'erb (which is technically correct US English, but so is herb).







> I dunno who these "Americans" are of which you speak



A lot of people from the USA. Beret, for instance, or homage, whose second syllable is often said as if the word is French and hadn't been part of the English language for centuries before colonization really started.

Also, pronouncing the w in sword is OK, because Robert E. Howard did it.


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## Desdichado (Dec 2, 2004)

Faraer said:
			
		

> Also, pronouncing the w in sword is OK, because Robert E. Howard did it.



Huh?  What kind of authority is that?


----------



## Faraer (Dec 2, 2004)

Moral authority. But I'm being slightly tongue-in-cheek.


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## Desdichado (Dec 2, 2004)

I thought maybe you were...


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 2, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Huh?  What kind of authority is that?



 Conan type authority, that's what. 

My players have never had trouble with pronouncing things the same way(which is really all that I want, so there's a common consistency to it)...but then again, they've not yet ventured into the part of my homebrew that is essentially Celtic Wales/Ireland. They are really going to hate it when I pull out those ll's and such. Ahh, the fun.


----------



## Turjan (Dec 2, 2004)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> My players have never had trouble with pronouncing things the same way(which is really all that I want, so there's a common consistency to it)...but then again, they've not yet ventured into the part of my homebrew that is essentially Celtic Wales/Ireland. They are really going to hate it when I pull out those ll's and such. Ahh, the fun.




I hope you'll have the equivalent of the town of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch in your campaign .

Edit: Even the browser fails to treat it as a single word .


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## hrafnagud (Dec 3, 2004)

reanjr said:
			
		

> But why would someone, making up a new word, decide to spell it as horribly as the rest of the English language? That doesn't make sense to me.  When I create a new word or name for a campaign, I spell it as phonetically as possible.




Except the word 'Drow' is not a fantasy word, and has a very specific pronounciation.

In twenty years of gaming, I never once heard 'Drow' as in 'go.'  I must admit, it does sound more infused with doom as Dro, and almost wish I'd thought of it all those years ago.  Alas, for me there is no changing it now.  When possible (as in this case), I defer to a good dictionary.


----------



## einsamste (Dec 3, 2004)

*heh*

arent yall glad i reopened this thread with my post.. *laughs*
hey woodelf.. did you read my post on page 4, i did it for you =D

later gents

-jason


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## woodelf (Dec 3, 2004)

einsamste said:
			
		

> arent yall glad i reopened this thread with my post.. *laughs*
> hey woodelf.. did you read my post on page 4, i did it for you =D



 yeah--nothing to say. At least two people have no shot my theory full of counter-examples, so...? <shrug>


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 3, 2004)

Turjan said:
			
		

> I hope you'll have the equivalent of the town of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch in your campaign .
> 
> Edit: Even the browser fails to treat it as a single word .



 I was very very tempted to. In fact, I'm still tempted...the players are going to hate me so much. Thank you, Turjan, you rock. 

And on topic. Drow. I pronounce it Drow. Either that, or "the crossbow bolt shoots from the shadows and hits you in the chest"


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## jester47 (Dec 3, 2004)

Someone should do a search for "drow" and "dictionary" as I remember someone asking what specific dictionary Gary got the pronunciation out of. 

It was some dictionary from the 30s IIR.  We could then look up the dictionary and get a scan of the correct way to pronounce the word.  

Or we could just leave it and have fun with the prow/crow argument.

Aaron.


----------



## Desdichado (Dec 3, 2004)

hrafnagud said:
			
		

> In twenty years of gaming, I never once heard 'Drow' as in 'go.'  I must admit, it does sound more infused with doom as Dro, and almost wish I'd thought of it all those years ago.  Alas, for me there is no changing it now.  When possible (as in this case), I defer to a good dictionary.



The only dictionary I've ever seen it in had it as an alternate spelling of 'trow', an Orkney Islands bit of folkoric creature similar to a goblin.  And it was pronounced like dro.

If you have another dictionary to defer to, I'd love to see it.


----------



## hrafnagud (Dec 3, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> If you have another dictionary to defer to, I'd love to see it.




Last time I saw this discussion, I took the initiative to look it up in the OED, lest I'd been pronouncing it wrong all these years.  My choice to pronounce the word 'Drow' as in 'cow' was totally uninformed.  That's just how it seemed to me at the time.  As per the OED, it is in fact 'Drow' as in 'Cow.'  Sadly I don't have access to it anymore, or I would be thrilled to post the entry.  Note this was the complete online academic version; I don't know if the word is in the abridged edition or not.  Surely someone out there has access, or better yet a full set at home?


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## Cyberhawk (Dec 3, 2004)

I'm definately in the Drow as 'go' mainly becuase the first thing I thought of when I saw it was 'row', 'crow' or 'grow'.   In my gaming group that's how we all said it.  

Then I moved to the Northeast and heard the Drow as 'how'.  It's like fingernails on a chalkboard for me.  It just sounds horribly wrong.  And from some of the posts in this thread it seems that for the Drow/how crowd they feel the same way about my pronounciation   

For the most part I just put it down to regional variations, such as Tomato and Aunt.  And if it's an issue I switch to saying Dark Elf.


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## Samuel Leming (Dec 3, 2004)

In my game there are two factions of drow.  The drou and the droe.  Whenever they encounter each other they argue about silly trivial useless topics until violence erupts upon the speaking of the one word you must never utter to a drow: Moooooooo!   

Sam


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## einsamste (Dec 3, 2004)

woodelf said:
			
		

> yeah--nothing to say. At least two people have no shot my theory full of counter-examples, so...? <shrug>




ah.. i wasnt trying to prove anything or correct you. you just asked if their was anyone that was old school that called it that.. and im one of them so i spoke up =)
then just mentioned (the most important factor) thats its not important what you call it.
the really funny thing here is ive been writing a new book to publish and it has drow in it.... i cant wait till someone interviews me and i call it 'drow' like 'grow' and stir some people up. lol. *grins* man im so evil. >=D
too fun.


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## Thanee (Dec 3, 2004)

woodelf said:
			
		

> Why? Just think of scimitar or science.



 True enough. 

 Maybe it because of the y as in sky... 

 So, scythe is spoken pretty much like size then?

  Bye
  Thanee


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## Turjan (Dec 3, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> So, scythe is spoken pretty much like size then?




Well, with a "th" instead of the "z", yes. A second possibility is to speak it like "sigh", with a mute "-the". Both versions are okay.


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## Desdichado (Dec 3, 2004)

Thanee said:
			
		

> So, scythe is spoken pretty much like size then?



saĭð.  

Although that's potentially confusing because ai in English is often pronounced like ei in the International Phonetic Alphabet.  Sometimes I wish we all just spelled with the phonetic alphabet!


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## einsamste (Dec 3, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> saĭð.
> 
> Although that's potentially confusing because ai in English is often pronounced like ei in the International Phonetic Alphabet.  Sometimes I wish we all just spelled with the phonetic alphabet!





always said it as 'sigh' here. often wondered about that one but never bothered to look it up. paladin i always said as 'pal (like friend) a din' instead of pah lad in. oh.. another one.. shaman.  shah man or shay min. haha. never ran into problems with that until everquest. speaking of that game.. sow (spirit of wolf).. like female pig or like sew. boy.. this could just go on forever huh. lol


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## einsamste (Dec 3, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> saĭð.
> 
> Although that's potentially confusing because ai in English is often pronounced like ei in the International Phonetic Alphabet.  Sometimes I wish we all just spelled with the phonetic alphabet!





always said it as 'sigh' here. often wondered about that one but never bothered to look it up. paladin i always said as 'pal (like friend) a din' instead of pah lad in. oh.. another one.. shaman.  shah man or shay min. haha. never ran into problems with that until everquest. speaking of that game.. sow (spirit of wolf).. like female pig or like sew. boy.. this could just go on forever huh. lol. i spoke those like pal ah din, shay min, and sew (like drow. lol)
the problem of course arises in someone reading a word without hearing it from anyone else. however. as with all the rest, they are all correct if the word is represented to getting the point across.


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## Turjan (Dec 3, 2004)

einsamste said:
			
		

> always said it as 'sigh' here.




I prefer this pronunciation, as it comprises a poetic aspect. "He killed his victim with a scythe" pronounced as "sigh" gives the whole process a remorseful note .


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 3, 2004)

I may be a bit confused here, but...

Prononucing 'scythe' as sigh? I'm not sure I understand that...I've always pronounced it more like 'sigh-th'. I may just be misinterpreting other posters, though, as its tough to describe pronunciation accurately.

But if you do pronounce it as 'sigh', then what about a sai? THAT I pronounced exactly like 'sigh'. Wouldn't having both scythe and sai the same make it a bit...well, confusing?


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## Desdichado (Dec 3, 2004)

I've never heard of scythe being pronounced with a silent [th] and according to my dictionary, it would be incorrect to do so.

Really, these words aren't controversial if you can just look them up.  A lot of people may pronounce words incorrectly, but they're still clearly doing it incorrectly.


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## Turjan (Dec 3, 2004)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I may be a bit confused here, but...
> 
> Prononucing 'scythe' as sigh?




Perhaps you have a look at this entry in the Merriam-Webster. It comes with voice files for both pronunciations, so there's not much of a mystery to it .



			
				Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> But if you do pronounce it as 'sigh', then what about a sai?




I might be wrong, but I pronounce this differently from "sigh". I pronounce both vowels separately so that you will hear a definite "a" and a definite "i", but but have them both gliding into each other in the middle. The main difference is the clear "a" (pronounced like an "a" in Italian, French or German ).


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## einsamste (Dec 4, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I've never heard of scythe being pronounced with a silent [th] and according to my dictionary, it would be incorrect to do so.
> 
> Really, these words aren't controversial if you can just look them up.  A lot of people may pronounce words incorrectly, but they're still clearly doing it incorrectly.




heh my dictionary says both 'sigh th' and 'sigh' =) ouch. lol. quite clearly huh *grins* ah... this place is more fun than a sack of dead cats im telling ya.


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## woodelf (Dec 6, 2004)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I may be a bit confused here, but...
> 
> Prononucing 'scythe' as sigh? I'm not sure I understand that...I've always pronounced it more like 'sigh-th'. I may just be misinterpreting other posters, though, as its tough to describe pronunciation accurately.
> 
> But if you do pronounce it as 'sigh', then what about a sai? THAT I pronounced exactly like 'sigh'. Wouldn't having both scythe and sai the same make it a bit...well, confusing?



 Not really. You pronounce the latter "baton" if trying to contrast it with "scythe"; and the former is pronounced "kusari-gama" when you're trying to distinguish it from "sai". If you're in a setting that has scythes, you don't have sais, and vice versa, so it's never come up.    [yes, i probably picked the wrong pseudo-japanese weapon name; i didn't feel like digging a book out and i think i got my point across.]

 Seriously, though, that's not half so much of a pain as old D&D which expected us to distinguish between "demon" and "daemon" in spoken transmission. [For the uninitiated, while their etymologies and meanings are fairly distinct, their pronunciations, at least in English, are identical. (Yes, i'm aware that the Latin pronunciation of "daemon" is quite distinct.)]


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## Sejs (Dec 6, 2004)

> "daemon"



  I've always pronounced daemon in the same way you say actor Matt Damon's last name.  No idea if that's correct, though.


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## wingsandsword (Dec 6, 2004)

Sejs said:
			
		

> I've always pronounced daemon in the same way you say actor Matt Damon's last name.  No idea if that's correct, though.




Don't know if it's correct either, but I do it too.


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## Veritas (Dec 6, 2004)

Right off the Wizards website D&D faq... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dnddefinitivefaq.asp

*Drow: DRAU (as in drowsy; rhymes with now and how)*


Edit: damn... Thorntangle beat me to it... oh well.


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## Adlon (Dec 6, 2004)

Drow as in how now, and cow.....

If EGG's description isn't enough, how about R.A. Salvatore? He also says drow as in cow, and he said it LIVE on Mortality Radio:

http://www.mortality.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=75


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## diaglo (Dec 6, 2004)

Adlon said:
			
		

> ... how about R.A. Salvatore?




what does Bob know about drow


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## Desdichado (Dec 6, 2004)

woodelf said:
			
		

> For the uninitiated, while their etymologies and meanings are fairly distinct, their pronunciations, at least in English, are identical. (Yes, i'm aware that the Latin pronunciation of "daemon" is quite distinct.)



The etymologies I've seen have both as the same word, from the Latin _daemon_ and one is simply a variant spelling of the other.


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## Mystery Man (Dec 6, 2004)

ironmani said:
			
		

> I always pronounced it as the same as "cow" But that was before the huge influx of drow rangers who fight two weapon style running around.  I finally got so fed up with it, I banned all drow in my world. When asked by the Drizzit clone why, I responed that they had all left to go to the plane of the elemental forest to be rangers. No lie he asked, "Well could my drow be the only one who was left?" Ggggaaaahhhhh! I could almost strangle R.A. Salvatore for loosing the plauge that is Drizzit upon the D & D world. Of course I would be strangling him because he killed Chewie first.




 He was told to kill Chewie by the head cheeses at the publisher. But yes, Drow are entirely his fault.


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## Algolei (Dec 11, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> The etymologies I've seen have both as the same word, from the Latin _daemon_ and one is simply a variant spelling of the other.



That's how I understand it too.  So does my Merriam-Webster dictionary (1974 ed.).  My Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary (1958 ed.) would seem to agree.


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## Christopher Johnson1 (Jul 7, 2018)

The etymology of Drow is from the Scots word Trow which is also the root for Troll. So, Drow should have a long o as does Trow and Troll. 
It really doesn’t matter which way people vote, the etymology is correct and everyone else is simply mispronouncing it.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 7, 2018)

Right, because language never changes. Ever been to Pittsburgh?

Drow hurt you. So it rhymes with ow.


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## Thomas Bowman (Jul 7, 2018)

Tuzenbach said:


> My immediate circle of players had always pronounced "Drow" as rhyming with "go". Then one day, I met a player who pronounced it as rhyming with "cow", which I thought was thoroughly wrong and hideous!
> 
> A year or so ago that Vin Deasil(sp?) person was on the Conan O'Brian Show and went off on some tangent regarding his "Specialist Mage Drow" (with "Drow" as in "cow") and I was horrified. I thought "Great. Now the whole gaming world will pronounce it incorrectly".
> 
> Anyway, how do you pronounce it?




Since Drow don't exist, there is no correct way of pronouncing it, as no Drow will ever correct you!


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## Umbran (Jul 7, 2018)

Christopher Johnson1 said:


> The etymology of Drow is from the Scots word Trow...




The etymology of "drow" in our context is Gygax looking in a copy of Funk & Wagnall's.  

Its old origin has little bearing in this case - it is pronounced as a middle-aged guy from Chicago would pronounce it - meaning both are acceptable.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 7, 2018)

Umbran said:


> The etymology of "drow" in our context is Gygax looking in a copy of Funk & Wagnall's.
> 
> Its old origin has little bearing in this case - *it is pronounced as a middle-aged guy from Chicago would pronounce it* - meaning both are acceptable.




In which case, it should probably be pronounced, “Da Drow!”





...which then implies “Da Owlbears!”, “Da Bullettes!” and so much more.


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## Morrus (Jul 7, 2018)

*How do you pronounce &quot;Drow&quot;?*



Christopher Johnson1 said:


> The etymology of Drow is from the Scots word Trow which is also the root for Troll. So, Drow should have a long o as does Trow and Troll.
> It really doesn’t matter which way people vote, the etymology is correct and everyone else is simply mispronouncing it.




You know this thread is 14 years old?  Odd one to seek out! But anyway. It’s a made-up D&D race of black-skinned magical elves who live in the Underdark. Etymology has nothing to do with it.


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## TwoSix (Jul 7, 2018)

Christopher Johnson1 said:


> The etymology of Drow is from the Scots word Trow which is also the root for Troll. So, Drow should have a long o as does Trow and Troll.
> It really doesn’t matter which way people vote, the etymology is correct and everyone else is simply mispronouncing it.



1)  Wow, this is a super deep necro.  13.5 years?

2)  Linguistic prescriptivism never fails to amuse me.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 8, 2018)

Christopher Johnson1 said:


> The etymology of Drow is from the Scots word Trow which is also the root for Troll. So, Drow should have a long o as does Trow and Troll.
> It really doesn’t matter which way people vote, the etymology is correct and everyone else is simply mispronouncing it.






Hand of Evil said:


> See official answer:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=219714&postcount=48




still the answer


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## delericho (Jul 8, 2018)

These days Salvatore has had more influence on them than anyone. So surely it's dr'ow?


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## Emerikol (Jul 9, 2018)

My groups always called it drow as in now.  It invoked plenty of fear because that is the name they'd always known it by.  I never heard it called droe until I was at a convention.  

I agree with Hand of Evil that the official name is probably drow as in cow.

Since you are DM of your campaign though, I believe Gygax solves the problem for you.  Use rule 0 to have them go by Droe in your campaign.  Done!

I think my preference is purely traditional. I called them drow for years so that seems familiar to me.


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## Shasarak (Jul 9, 2018)

I always pronounced Drow as in Bow.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 9, 2018)

Shasarak said:


> I always pronounced Drow as in Bow.




Clever!


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## Imaculata (Jul 9, 2018)

I always pronounce it as 'elves'


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## JacktheRabbit (Jul 10, 2018)

RithTheAwakener said:


> i completely agree. drow(cow) sounds weak and frail to me, whereas drow(oh) sounds devious(spelling ) and powerful..




So drow rhyming with "cow" sounds weak and frail but drow rhyming with "hoe" sounds powerful? ;-)

I always pronounced it the first way, no idea why I chose that method the first time I said the word out loud.

In reality both are wrong anyway, the proper way to pronounce Drow rhymes with "Mary Sue".  Geez, everyone knows that.


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## Ratskinner (Jul 10, 2018)

delericho said:


> These days Salvatore has had more influence on them than anyone. So surely it's dr'ow?



I thought it was Dro'w.


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## Yaarel (Jul 11, 2018)

Huh.

‘Drow’ is a Scottish word. A variant of Scots ‘trow’.

According to the Scots language, it is pronounced [drʌu].

As such, the Scots term sounds somewhat in between American English ‘crow’ and ‘cow’.



Interestingly, in the Scots language, Scots ‘drow’ [dr*ʌu*] rhymes with neither Scots ‘craw’ [kr*ɑ*] (English ‘crow’), nor Scots ‘coo’ [k*u*] (English ‘cow’).



The upshot is, Americans never pronounce the word ‘drow’ properly, the way Scots do, because American English gets the vowels wrong.

So, the American pronunciation is whichever way Americans want it to sound for Americans.

As such, the American English ‘drow’ rhyming with ‘cow’, seems to prevail. Albeit, rhyming with ‘crow’ is a significant variant.



My first D&D group rhymed it with ‘crow’. (Heh, this same group pronounces Irish ‘shillelagh’ properly!) So that is how I first pronounced it. But these days, I find myself rhyming it with ‘cow’.

Heh. That said, my dialect of American English is strongly monopthongal. (‘Mayonaise’ sounds more like [menez].) So, if I am paying attention, the way that I say ‘cow’ and ‘drow’, sounds more like [kʌ] and [dɹʌ].

This monothong [ʌ] is a (non-centralized) unrounded mid-open back vowel.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 11, 2018)

Great!

(...ummmm, I think)


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## Tallifer (Jul 14, 2018)

Drow are not real, so I think we can pronounce the word any way we feel like. Or spell it any way as well. After all, spelling was compeletly flexible before the 19th century (and still changes). For a good example, see Thomas Malory's le Morte d'Arthur from the 15th century.


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