# RotW: Champion of Corellon Larethian



## Legildur (Feb 10, 2005)

Does anyone else think that the Elegant Strike (Ex) ability (allows you to add Dex bonus to damage for selected weapon types, except for targets immune to crits) for the Champion of Corellon Larethian PrC as a little overpowered? (can be gained by 9th character level)

I didn't mind the Insightful Strike (adding Int bonus instead) for Duelists and Swashbucklers as that requires decent physical and mental stats, but having the bonuses from two physical stats stack in this way seems a little risky.

Thoughts?


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## Banshee16 (Feb 10, 2005)

Legildur said:
			
		

> Does anyone else think that the Elegant Strike (Ex) ability (allows you to add Dex bonus to damage for selected weapon types, except for targets immune to crits) for the Champion of Corellon Larethian PrC as a little overpowered? (can be gained by 9th character level)
> 
> I didn't mind the Insightful Strike (adding Int bonus instead) for Duelists and Swashbucklers as that requires decent physical and mental stats, but having the bonuses from two physical stats stack in this way seems a little risky.
> 
> Thoughts?




Can they add the bonus from DEX *and* STR to the damage?  I haven't read it, but there's a similar rule in Plot & Poison, and another in Swashbuckling Adventures, that allow you to gain a feat that lets you use your DEX mod for dmg bonus with select weapons...but with those feats, if you use them, you don't get your STR bonus on those weapons.

Isn't this like that?  You can use DEX *instead* of STR?

Banshee


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## ivocaliban (Feb 10, 2005)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> Can they add the bonus from DEX *and* STR to the damage?  I haven't read it, but there's a similar rule in Plot & Poison, and another in Swashbuckling Adventures, that allow you to gain a feat that lets you use your DEX mod for dmg bonus with select weapons...but with those feats, if you use them, you don't get your STR bonus on those weapons.
> 
> Isn't this like that?  You can use DEX *instead* of STR?
> 
> Banshee




That's how I interpreted it. Dexterity instead of Strength.


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## Li Shenron (Feb 10, 2005)

Assuming the Dex bonus replaces the Str bonus (but doesn't stack), it's a very good ability but probably not overpowered for a PrCl.

What makes it a very good ability is of course that Str becomes a much less relevant stat (tho not useless, there's still a bunch of uses for it that you may not avoid easily), but also the fact that Dex is sometimes regarded as the best stat _in general_, because it is the one that affects most things, AC first of all unless you're heavily armored. I still think it's ok for a PrCl.

Letting those bonuses stack would be much better, but maybe still ok (now I see it gets that at 9th level...).


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## Lord Pendragon (Feb 10, 2005)

Li Shenron said:
			
		

> Assuming the Dex bonus replaces the Str bonus (but doesn't stack), it's a very good ability but probably not overpowered for a PrCl.



I'd say it all depends on what other abilities the prestige class gets.

Using Dex instead of strength for damage can be _extremely_ powerful.  Rogues, for instance, would often kill for this ability.  Or really any TWF-specialist.  After all, the less Multiple Attribute Dependency you have, the better off you are.

But is it _too_ powerful?  Hard to say.  A lot of other prestige class abilities are very powerful as well.  I suggest you look at the class as a whole.


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## Legildur (Feb 10, 2005)

Sorry, I should have posted the key parts of the ability destription (my emphasis):



> *Elegant Strike (Su)*: .... You apply your Dexterity bonus as a bonus on damage rolls (*in addition to any Strength bonus you may have*) with any of the following weapons: longsword, rapier, elven thinblade, elven lightblade, elven court sword, or scimitar....



There is also a series of other abilities including one that improves your armor class through increasing the maximum Dex bonus to AC for armor and some other bits and pieces.

Need BAB +7 and other stuff to qualify, and Elegant Strike is gained at 2nd level of the PrC, so earliest you could have it is 9th character level.

I have a multiclassed elven fighter/paladin that is mobility based and has good Strength and Dexterity that is close to qualifying for this PrC (plenty of BAB, but need one more feat and 4 skill points in a class skill), so he will hit like a mule with his longsword if the DM allows it.  I was just concerned that allowing bonuses for both Strength and Dexterity to stack seems a little over the top.

And I can see some nasty Dervish or Swashbuckler builds arriving soon.


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## Darkness (Feb 10, 2005)

Hm. Longsword is the weapon with the most damage on this list. Unless... What are the stats for an elven lightblade and elven court sword? Especially damage.


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## dagger (Feb 10, 2005)

Its exactly the same as the Swashbuckler ability, Add Int to damage (in addition to any str)..so I don't have that much of a problem with it. I have not seen the class though and I am itching to get a look at it.

Don't the Dervish and Swash ablities require little or no armor?

Can you do me a favor Legildur and list the prereqs for that class? If not, can you email me them to me at jameslima(at)gmail.com ? Thanks!





			
				Legildur said:
			
		

> Sorry, I should have posted the key parts of the ability destription (my emphasis):
> 
> 
> There is also a series of other abilities including one that improves your armor class through increasing the maximum Dex bonus to AC for armor and some other bits and pieces.
> ...


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## brehobit (Feb 10, 2005)

Dex stacks with Str. for damage?

Much much better than weapon specialization (or even improved weapon specialization). By 9th level any such character should have a 16 dex.  And having a 22 is pretty likely (including items -- 16 base, +2 elf, +2 levels, +2 item).  So we would be taking about +6 damage.  While the weapon selection is moderate, at most I'd call it -1 damage.  And if you get to add the full value to all attacks with two weapons.... ick.

The Dwarven PrC which lets CON *replace * DEX for AC bonuses was a bit crazy.   This is way too much.  I was just looking over Races of Stone yesterday and realizing how powerful some of the PrC and subsitution levels are.  I'm starting to sense that the racial books are just too much.  As noted in another thread, this is reminding me of 2e.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Feb 10, 2005)

Keep in mind that the class also requires heavy armor use (correct?).

So, we're looking at someone who, even with the class's ability to increase the Max Dex Bonus, won't benefit as much from a high Dex score to begin with.


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## Laman Stahros (Feb 10, 2005)

Darkness said:
			
		

> Hm. Longsword is the weapon with the most damage on this list. Unless... What are the stats for an elven lightblade and elven court sword? Especially damage.




Elven thinblade and elven lightblade are in the Complete Warrior. The thinblade and longsword have the same damage, with the thinblade having a 18-20 crit range. The lightblade is similar to a short sword, with a better crit range.


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## Mekabar (Feb 10, 2005)

Laman Stahros said:
			
		

> The lightblade is similar to a short sword, with a better crit range.



You could also say: It has excatly the same stats as a rapier or scimitar, but is a light exotic weapon.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Feb 10, 2005)

Elven thinblade = exotic rapier with improved damage die 
Elven lightblade = exotic rapier that's light

Elven courtblade = ???

EDIT: 

Does the thinblade do piercing, slashing, or piercing / slashing damage?  I don't remember ...

If it's slashing, then amend my above to:

Elven thinblade = exotic rapier with improved damage die, type change (P -> S)


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## Legildur (Feb 11, 2005)

Dagger, full requirements are:

Race: Elf or half-elf
BAB: +7
Skills: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks
Feats: Proficient with all martial weapons and heavy armor, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mounted Combat
Special: Must worship Corellon Larethian (but adaptation notes are pretty loose)
Special: Weapon Focus (longsword) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven thinblade or elven courtblade)

Darkness, courtblade is 2-handed exotic melee wpn (1d10, 18-20/x2, P or S).

Brehobit, ability is not necessarily as good as Wpn Specialisation as the Dex damage does not work with creatures immune to criticals.


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## kenobi65 (Feb 11, 2005)

(removed)


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## Kae'Yoss (Feb 11, 2005)

Darkness said:
			
		

> Hm. Longsword is the weapon with the most damage on this list. Unless... What are the stats for an elven lightblade and elven court sword? Especially damage.




Like said above: Lightblade is short sword with better crit rage. Thinblade is rapier with d8. Courtblade is 2h 1d10 18-20, finessable (reminds me of Katana - should be used 2h, should be finessable).

I might add that the character needs Int 13 and Dex 13 for the prerequisites. So this will limit the strength score somewhat because there's ability scores you need.

The dex damage is precision-based so it doesn't apply to COUPE (much like the precise strike of the duelist)


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