# Roleplaying high INT and CHA with low WIS



## Gnome (Jun 19, 2006)

A player of mine rolled-up some great stats for an upcoming game I am running:

17 16 15 15 13 4

Okay, they're all great except for the 4.    He's struggling what to do with the 4 stat, however.  He was leaning towards running a human sorcerer and putting the 17 in CHA and the 16 into INT, and putting the 4 into WIS (since the high Will save would help make-up for that), but he's struggling with how to roleplay such an odd combination of mental stats.  I told him that his character would be extremely intelligent and likeable, but also probably very impulsive with little common sense.

Can anyone do better than that in terms of trying to come-up with a personality that fit the stats, or general roleplaying tips?  TIA.


----------



## Rystil Arden (Jun 19, 2006)

I decided one day to postulate what a character with 18 Int, 18 Cha, and 1 Wis would be like.  This character your player made would be less extreme, but could share some of the characteristics.  She is a genius who can answer academic questions and logic puzzles almost immediately.  She has a powerful personality and strong opinions, and people find themselves agreeing with her and listening to what she has to say.  However, she is incrediby unobservant and misses out on body language and innuendo.  In fact, though she can always solve for the right answer in theoretical questions, in practise, she is so overwhelmed with stimuli, many of which are worthless but seem interesting to her advanced intellect, that she can't pick out the useful ones, as she could in a hypothetical situation with only a few elements involved.  As such, she creates extremely simple-minded a priori heuristics to help her come to real-world solutions without being paralysed by the amount of information.  For example, she has trouble deciding who to trust and who to believe, in other words, who is 'good' and who is 'bad'.  Eventually, she grasps onto the heuristic that pretty things are good until proven otherwise by their actions and that ugly things are bad until proven otherwise by their actions.  This actually works in the majority of cases and allows her to make snap decisions, although every so often, it causes her to make a big mistake.


----------



## Enkhidu (Jun 19, 2006)

Three words: complete self confidence.


----------



## Black Omega (Jun 19, 2006)

Gnome said:
			
		

> A player of mine rolled-up some great stats for an upcoming game I am running:
> 
> 17 16 15 15 13 4
> 
> ...



For some reason I'm thinking of a line from one of the Terry Pratchett novels.

"Haha!  They said it couldn't be done!"

"No, they said it shouldn't be done."

ADD Sorcerer.  Acts on Impulse, short attention span, never thinks things through, easily bored.


----------



## lukelightning (Jun 19, 2006)

Easy, roleplay me! (You'd have to roleplay a very high comliness score as well!)


----------



## Mallus (Jun 19, 2006)

Read the story hour in my sig. Burne is practically the poster-boy for the "National High INT, High CHR, Low WIS Association".

If you'd rather not wade through it, I'll summarize; combine pathological self-confidence, humor, and a total disregard for what's really going on in any given situation (outside of your own snap judgement, of course).


----------



## Henry (Jun 19, 2006)

The character above is the classic 1st edition AD&D Wizard who casts the fireball in the 5-foot wide tunnel without thinking. They are the fighter who jumps down the well because of the prophecy to "follow the light" -- not remembering they're wearing plate mail and the water is 15 feet deep. They are the Rogue who searches for traps AFTER picking the lock. They are the classic "look before you leap" impulsive types, who would only fear a situation if there was obvious danger, like an open lava pit. Even then, a rickety rope bridge might tempt them to cross anyway before testing the strength.


----------



## Nareau (Jun 19, 2006)

I've decided that I love playing low Wis characters.  They're the ones who charge into battle, poke at gemstone eyes on demon statues, and trigger traps.  They're great for moving the game along.

He sounds charming, impulsive, and brilliant.  Kinda like Indiana Jones.

Spider


----------



## billd91 (Jun 19, 2006)

Someone with a low wisdom might be supremely unperceptive or distracted appearing. Whenever someone speaks to him, he might say "Huh? Were you talking to me?" 
When dealing with other people, he can't understand their body language. "Here's my plan. Blah blah blah." Audience looks horrified. "Ah, I can see you all agree. Excellent!"


----------



## frankthedm (Jun 19, 2006)

Make _fatal_ mistakes. Seriously, a character with a 4 wisdom probably should have gotten themselves killed when they were a child if not for someone really watching out for them. 

Don't be afraid to offer to scout ahead or go off on your own. After all you will _think_ you re being quiet.

Assume people who seem to like you have your best interests at heart.

No ranks in climb? Try it anyways and don’t bother taking 10.

Leave yourself open to monsters charging you so you can get your spells off.

Eat big juicy mushrooms you find while traveling without checking with the ranger or druid first. Better yet, add them to the dinner you are cooking for the party and…. Shhh… it is a surprise.

“Oops” Should be the first thing you say after “Fireball”.


----------



## BigCat (Jun 19, 2006)

You are the absent minded professor beloved for your entertaining lectures and lively seminars, but you are constantly sitting on your glasses.  You can recite the entire Illiad and make the audience cry for Achilles, but without your secretary you couldn't pick your own graduate students out of a crowd.


----------



## Illirion (Jun 19, 2006)

I'd suggest reading OotS and taking a good look at Elan.

Oh wait no, forget about that. Belkar was the one with the low wisdom. Elan just has a low Int. But Belkar doens't have a particularly high charisma or intelligence stat either. So just forget about what I said and just read OotS


----------



## Rystil Arden (Jun 19, 2006)

Illirion said:
			
		

> I'd suggest reading OotS and taking a good look at Elan.



 Elan is not such a good example--his Int is not at all high either


----------



## Wolfwood2 (Jun 19, 2006)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> Make _fatal_ mistakes. Seriously, a character with a 4 wisdom probably should have gotten themselves killed when they were a child if not for someone really watching out for them.
> 
> Don't be afraid to offer to scout ahead or go off on your own. After all you will _think_ you re being quiet.
> 
> ...




Well, no, don't do any of those things because they will be annoying to the other players and not conductive to good gaming.

I would probably play up the low Will save and low perception angle myself, making this character someone who is easily talked into things.  Mind you, he's obviously very intelligent and can see the right course of action when given some time to think things through.  It's just that he often takes the easiest and most obvious way out when under pressure.  Not necessarily the worst choice, because sometimes the best choice is the easiest choice.


----------



## Balgus (Jun 19, 2006)

Eight Year old Genius.

If you have a son or someone you can get some advice from, ask them what they would do in certain situations and work on it from there.

I would also say Cocky bastard.


----------



## orsal (Jun 19, 2006)

I take ivory-tower intellectuals as the prototype of high-int low-wis. High-cha fits that mold quite well. The character is extremely articulate, using his excellent language skills for rhetorical purposes. His influence is enhanced by the evident fact that he knows what he's talking about, and also can express it very clearly. But he's got a very theoretical mindset. Everything he understands well in theory, doesn't work out so well in practice. He can make well-informed decisions when he has a chance to deliberate, but his snap decisions are often poor, because he isn't good at assessing a situation when he doesn't have time to contemplate every aspect. Also, his verbal skills aren't matched by non-verbal communications -- terrible at picking up body language, unless the character takes enough Sense Motive ranks to compensate for the low wisdom.

Think back to the best teacher you ever had. That's someone who combined intelligence (deep multifaceted understanding and analysis of the subject matter) with charisma (engaging presentation in class). That person may or may not have been absent-minded; if not, you can well imagine that (s)he was without changing what made the person such a great teacher. Now suppose that, instead of going into the teaching or academic profession, the person had decided to make a career out of exploring subterranean caverns inhabited by strange monsters.


----------



## Tarangil (Jun 19, 2006)

I remember some years ago, a DM of mine had an interesting analogy on describing the differences with a high/low Int/wis.

His example of a High Wisdom (18)  and low Intelligence (3) was that the character upon chancing across a pile of crap, doesn't quite know what it is but instinctivly knows that it's best to avoid it.

Now put a character with a high intelligence (18) and a low wisdom (3) and when the guy chances upon the same pile of crap, he knows what it is.  It looks like crap, it smells like crap...So he eats it.


----------



## Kesh (Jun 19, 2006)

College professor.

Very smart, able to easily engage those he speaks to... but has no idea how to work his damn VCR. 

Seriously, this would be a character with a lot of focus in one particular area of life (arcane magic, in this case) and zero idea how to deal with anything else. Not ignorance so much as inexperience and an inability to "wrap their head around" things outside their expertise.


----------



## Zhaleskra (Jun 19, 2006)

I had a character with a low score in d20 Modern.  The score was Charisma, and I went with the disfigured interpretation.  Since it was really low 6 to start, and was later lowered even further to 4, rather than have the disfigurement by continuous, I chose to have it be three large scars, on his head and arms.  The GM played with this when the event that lowered his Charisma further happened.


----------



## davidschwartznz (Jun 20, 2006)

Malcom (in the Middle).

Smart and eloquent enough to get himself into a good situation, too short-sighted to keep himself there.


----------



## Baramay (Jun 20, 2006)

I would definitely talk to your DM about this character.  I have played a character with 18 int 8 wis and 16 chr.  I played much the way that has been described.  The DM felt I was not playing a good charisma because others were annoyed by her impulsiveness.  Charisma is the way things are perceived by others.  A DM must be aware of each character's charisma because it is a reactive ability.  There is a fine line between cute and annoying and that line is charisma.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 20, 2006)

There are all kinds of low wis archetypes out there.  Add charisma and Intelligence...

1)  The Born Leader: He right, he KNOWS he's right, and he's persuasive enough to convince those around him that he's right...despite his history of forgetting _itty bitty details about this or that that might convince others that Plan A needs a bit of revision (like needing an escape plan).

For example, consider Dr. Rodney McKay from Stargate Atlantis.  He knows more about Ancient tech than most other humans in the whole Stargate continuum...but he can't see his own blind spots and recognize when his intellect isn't up to the challenge.  In one episode, his hubris almost got everyone killed when he thought he could solve a problem with a kind of energy source that the Ancients themselves could not control.

2)  The Ivory Tower Genius:  Knows a lot about a lot on an academic level, but has little or no practical experience with the real world.  Result: he may have a theory about what will happen when party A attacks location B with plan Z...and may well be surprised that plan Z (which was devised by military genius Shaun Tzoo 500 years ago) doesn't work as well with more modern weaponry.  Think of a young nobleman with no combat experience, fresh from officer's training school, who is sent to the front lines in a decade's old war...


3)  Ladies Man.  Woos them, wows them, then leaves them...even if they happen to command armies of undead.

As for survivability, all of these guys have an element of a "suit of Teflon armor" around them.  With enough charisma, you can convince people to take the fall for you, or throw themselves on a sword for you...even without asking.  "He is a great man, destined for great things- I'm not letting you take him down..." may have been uttered in his defense multiple times._


----------



## Nomad4life (Jun 20, 2006)

I had a character with stats like the OP once.  I roleplayed him as a witty drunkard- smart, but reckless, self-absorbed, and no self control when it came to particular vices.  It was fun.


----------



## Satori (Jun 20, 2006)

I'm surprised no one else mentioned this.

-The Brilliant Addict

The guy is basically a genius at whatever he does, and his good looks and ability to impress others ensures that he's well employed, admired, and respected.  This man seems to have it all, right?

Wrong.

Beneath this intelligent and charming exterior is a desperate man with no self-control.  He's an alcoholic, a drug user, an over eater, an obsessive gambler...if it offers immediate gratification, then he's hooked immediately.

He's probably squandered millions of gold, ruined dozens of marriages, and nearly destroyed his own life a hundred times...but he somehow manages to keep going.

He's probably got a best friend and several ladies that can't help but stick around and bail him out when he gets in trouble.

Tips: You have everything going for you...except that you can't control your addictions.  So long as you have your fix, you're a genius that everyone loves.  The minute that starts to fade, everything falls apart and you become a slave your lack of willpower.


Here is another concept that springs to mind.

-The Lunatic

Brilliant, forceful, COMMANDING...but thoroughly insane.  He suffers from any number of minor and major neurosis and psychosis...and if he weren't so darn intelligent and persuasive, he'd have been locked up years ago.

This could border from the brilliant and good natured "Rain Man" autist to the downright paranoid and delusional Hitler/Stalin.

Tips: You aren't insane...everyone else is.  Why are they staring at you? Get back to work!  Yes...that's better.  Better keep moving...else the bugs will come.  There are no bugs...YES THERE ARE!  SHUT UP!  Hey!  STOP STARING!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 20, 2006)

-The Brilliant Addict

This shows up a lot in the arts: Morton Downey, Jr., Kurt Cobain, Jackson Pollack...

Athletes?  Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan, and John Daley have all gambled away millions.  Others have traded in their long term health for short term prowess with steroids and other "performance enhancers."


----------



## Mallus (Jun 20, 2006)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Morton Downey, Jr.



That's _Robert_ Downey, Jr.!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 20, 2006)

Sorry...been drinking!

(Dannyalcatraz...posting from his happy place!)


----------



## Mishihari Lord (Jun 20, 2006)

I think of a politician who is great a getting people to follow him, very smart, but just makes dumb choices.  I don't want to get political by naming names, but it makes me think of a certain president.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 20, 2006)

The "Stuntman/Thrillseeker"...like Evel Knievel.

He figures out the power he needs to move the mass of his cycle across a canyon, but he doesn't "overengineer" so that he has MORE thrust than he needs...just enough for the distance..  He even puts in a safety system, but he doesn't have a backup safety chute or manual eject triggers.  Perhaps he even "guestimated" his numbers or "eyeballed" his distances instead of using precise calculations.

So when it DOES fail, he's on a long, ugly trip down.


----------



## rvalle (Jun 21, 2006)

I've been told by a DM that I need to post here. I'm not sure if I should be flattered or insulted.   

I've played characters like this. All halflings as it turns out, which makes it easier.  For those who have read the Dragonlance books think Tasslehoff.

They are fun, inquisitive, 'ohh, what's that?' sort of guys. Always poking into things and getting into trouble but able to talk their way back out again. Somewhat hyper and always ready to go somewhere. One of those characters that does NOT want to sit around all day waiting for Wizards to memorize spells! (I find these characters easier to play after downing a big Pepsi and running on a sugar/caffeine high). 

Doing things because it seems like a fun idea, not because it is the right or even smart thing to do. Note: this can annoy some other players who are there to power game or 'accomplish' something that adventure.

Oh... the stories I could tell.   

Hope you guys have fun with it.


----------



## JoelF (Jun 21, 2006)

I have a character with 18 Int, 5 Wis - he's a wizard who constantly makes unwise choices - mainly rushing off into melee when "it makes the most logical sense" and knowing that his magic "is superior to the mere mundande weapons" of his foes and will therefore protect him from harm.  This is despite the fact that he's been brought to negative hit points a few times from this strategy.  I see him continuing to do this even though he's hitting mid levels now.


----------



## Henry (Jun 21, 2006)

Satori said:
			
		

> -The Lunatic
> 
> Brilliant, forceful, COMMANDING...but thoroughly insane.  He suffers from any number of minor and major neurosis and psychosis...and if he weren't so darn intelligent and persuasive, he'd have been locked up years ago.




Some of the incarnations of Doctor Who come to mind when I read this!


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jun 21, 2006)

I think Baltar from Battlestar Galactica (TNS) might also be a good example of the high Int+Cha and low Wis archetype: 
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=166076&page=2

He is so incredibly smart that, while originally being a programmer and lead developer of the Colonial Defense System, he later also managed to understand important part of Cylon biology. He is charismatic enough that people follow him, ignore his strange behaviour, and he has no trouble charming women. He even manages to gain the trust of a abused, raped women in a matter of hours. 
But he has a poor choice of friends and allies, makes stupid decisions and is very obsessed with things (like himself and his sex life).
Six became his girlfriend, and he allowed her to manipulate the defense mainframe code (without bother double-checking her work or even doubting that it could be for anything else but for futher defense contracts of her employer). He messed with another girl while involved with Six (and even let her find out). He gave Gina a nuke, completely ignoring what she could do to it. his He decided to stay on "New Caprica" ignoring that there was still a risk of being discovered despite the cloud around the system...


----------



## barsoomcore (Jun 21, 2006)

Henry said:
			
		

> The character above is the classic 1st edition AD&D Wizard who casts the fireball in the 5-foot wide tunnel without thinking. They are the fighter who jumps down the well because of the prophecy to "follow the light" -- not remembering they're wearing plate mail and the water is 15 feet deep. They are the Rogue who searches for traps AFTER picking the lock. They are the classic "look before you leap" impulsive types, who would only fear a situation if there was obvious danger, like an open lava pit.
> 
> Every PC that ever lived.



Fixed it for you.


----------



## Imruphel (Jun 21, 2006)

Try googling narcissistic personality disorder. Not only does NPD describe every enterpreneur I have ever met, it describes a high Int/Cha and low Wis character perfectly IMO.


----------



## exile (Jun 21, 2006)

I am currently playing a character that falls into the high int, high cha, low wis type being discussed above...or at least she did until her low wis got her into enough trouble that the other abilities started to suffer too.

Caprice started play as a very talented, very charming (and pretty) apprentice wizard at the Hall of Mysteries (a school of magic that plays heavily in the current game). While naturally intelligent, she often chose social activities over hard work. As her magical training was drawing to an end, she found that she was actually in the running to capture the Headmaster's Prize (a very valuable scholarship). Her chief competition in this matter was another young lady who actually believed in hard work and fair play. Caprice realized that she would have no trouble passing, even honoring her exams, but she knew that to beat out her rival and win the Headmaster's Prize, she would have to cheat. Thanks to her low wisdom (and chaotic nature) she did just that.

Unfortuantely for Caprice, her dishonesty was easily discovered. As punishment, the Headmaster transformed her into a drudgethrall (think a cross between Igor and the Hunchback of Notre Dame that is used for menial tasks about the school). The transformation lowered her strength, dexterity, and charisma all to 8. Of course her physical deformities (hunchback and clubfoot) have other mechanical effects in game, but I'll not dwell on those here.  

Chad


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 22, 2006)

> For those who have read the Dragonlance books think Tasslehoff.




Dang!  First Baywatch, then a big music career in Germany...now Dragonlance novels, too?

Does his wellspring of talent have any limits?


----------



## Herremann the Wise (Jun 22, 2006)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Dang!  First Baywatch, then a big music career in Germany...now Dragonlance novels, too?
> 
> Does his wellspring of talent have any limits?



No, he just knows no bounds.  Go the Hoff!!! 

I'm going to go against the grain a little here. Having played a similar styled character (see my Lucifus Cray story hour below), I can suggest that in a lot of areas, intelligence can take up a little bit of the slack in terms of severe wisdom deficit. To have survived, the character has learned ways of doing things, methods and possible programs of behaviour to cope with a variety of situations - thus giving the appearance that ones wisdom is not in fact totally lacking. However, scratch beneath the surface and a complete lack of wisdom will become obvious. Thus most of the time, the character will get along quite well with strange personal rituals or behaviours. However, when they have a classic "moment of clarity; not", they will have stuff ups of truly epic proportions - just ask Lucifus!

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise


----------



## Heathen72 (Jun 22, 2006)

Wolfwood2 said:
			
		

> Well, no, don't do any of those things because they will be annoying to the other players and not conductive to good gaming.




Only if the other players were uptight and had a limited idea of what 'good gaming' was.


----------



## apsuman (Jun 24, 2006)

Think Gilderoy Lockhart (sp?) from the Movie (not the book) Harry Potter and the what book he was in.


----------

