# Star Trek XI: Romulan Wars



## Eternalknight (Jul 10, 2004)

From Trek Today:  http://www.trektoday.com/news/090704_04.shtml



> The Romulan Wars are tipped to be the subject of the next Star Trek feature film.
> 
> Enterprise executive producer Brannon Braga reportedly told the Star Trek Communicator that the series may not be able to feature the Romulan Wars because of a possible clash with the upcoming movie.
> 
> ...


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 10, 2004)

Crap, total crap.  They have wasted time and money and now they just throw out ideas...as long as Brannon Braga and Rick Berman's vision/mission statement remains it will be crap!  "...including the return of the Temporal Cold War..."


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## Umbran (Jul 10, 2004)

There is not plot idea so bad that a good story cannot be made out of it.  Brannon and Braga have their weaknesses, sure.  But the Temporal Cold War can be a decent story if they let good writers at it.


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## Eternalknight (Jul 10, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> There is not plot idea so bad that a good story cannot be made out of it.  Brannon and Braga have their weaknesses, sure.  But the Temporal Cold War can be a decent story if they let good writers at it.



 Agreed.  I do hope they play it out this season though.  And I was kinda hoping to see the Romulan War done in _Enterprise_ rather than a movie.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 10, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> There is not plot idea so bad that a good story cannot be made out of it.  Brannon and Braga have their weaknesses, sure.  But the Temporal Cold War can be a decent story if they let good writers at it.



It appears Manny Coto is the good writer.

But personally, I'd rather have the TCW story arc conclude as soon as possible. It is just tainted with Braga's handprints. IMNSHO, whenever he does a time-travel story, it just plain ... sucks.

As for the movie proposal itself that includes the Earth-Romulan War, this is what the TV series _ENTERPRISE_ should be based upon, a "Birth of the Federation" arc.


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## Rl'Halsinor (Jul 10, 2004)

I couldn't have said it better, Hand of Evil.  B&B have got to go.  The only thing that needs to be done is to flush because the franchise has been in the toilet for too many years under their leadership.


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## Vigilance (Jul 12, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> It appears Manny Coto is the good writer.
> 
> But personally, I'd rather have the TCW story arc conclude as soon as possible. It is just tainted with Braga's handprints. IMNSHO, whenever he does a time-travel story, it just plain ... sucks.
> 
> As for the movie proposal itself that includes the Earth-Romulan War, this is what the TV series _ENTERPRISE_ should be based upon, a "Birth of the Federation" arc.




I agree Reg it should have been done in the Enterprise series.

However, Braga renounced his "dibs". Had he jumped in immediately with the Romulan War and the birth of the Federation it would have been HIS but instead he had to do much more important things like this TCW BS. 

But here we are 3-4 seasons in and he's JUST talking getting into the formation of the Federation? And the Romulan War?

Yeah that's a great strategy... wait 4 years before starting to think about your two most promising storylines. 

Chuck


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## Ranger REG (Jul 12, 2004)

But knowing his track record, I'm afraid he'll screw up that story arc. He should just relinquish it to Manny Coto.

Can't Braga just be assigned to write _M:I3_ already? Come on, Paramount! Shuffle him out of the franchise.


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## myrdden (Jul 12, 2004)

All I can say is "meh".

I've all but given up on the franchise, and this news continues to push me in that direction.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 14, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> But knowing his track record, I'm afraid he'll screw up that story arc. He should just relinquish it to Manny Coto.
> 
> Can't Braga just be assigned to write _M:I3_ already? Come on, Paramount! Shuffle him out of the franchise.




Yep. He'll screw it up. He should have Joe Strazynski(sp?) who wrote Babylon 5 to write stuff. That man KNOWS how to write story arcs!! Try a 5 YEAR story arc!!!    They didn't start doing story arcs in Trek until B5 came along and stomped Trek's arse up between its nostrils.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 14, 2004)

*My lack of Trek interest of late*



			
				myrdden said:
			
		

> All I can say is "meh".
> 
> I've all but given up on the franchise, and this news continues to push me in that direction.




As have I. And Trek was what got me first into any sort of SF fandom (Starfleet International) and where I am now. I've even mostly given up costuming as a Klingon due to both lack of interest and time (now gaming every weekend).


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## Mark (Jul 14, 2004)

From Trek Today said:
			
		

> The Romulan Wars are tipped to be the subject of the next Star Trek feature film.




That should make for a good premise.



			
				From Trek Today said:
			
		

> Enterprise executive producer Brannon Braga reportedly told the Star Trek Communicator that the series may not be able to feature the Romulan Wars because of a possible clash with the upcoming movie.




Makes sense.



			
				From Trek Today said:
			
		

> "It's certainly one of the things that we've been discussing," Braga reportedly said. "But there's also a prequel feature in development regarding the Romulan Wars, so we might have to stay away from that." In the same magazine, franchise head honcho Rick Berman said Trek XI would be set before the time of Kirk, but would not be connected with Enterprise.




So, post-Enterprise (series) but pre-ST:TOS.  That could run through a trilogy of movies if they do it right, IMO.  If they did a trilogy, they could do them all together and bring them out back-to-back-to-back ALA LotR, saving some money on the budget of each, locking in some actors to a solid story line, and making a more cohesive three movie set than they could do if they tried to do them every two or three years as they've done in the past.



			
				From Trek Today said:
			
		

> The first sighting of the Romulans came in the second-season episode, "Minefield", in which the NX-01 inadvertantly strayed into Romulan territory. According to established Star Trek lore, the Romulan Neutral Zone was established in 2160 after a long war between Earth and the Romulans. With "Zero Hour" taking place in 2154, the Romulan Wars could conceivably take place during Enterprise's run.




Interesting, but I think the "Building the Federation" arc that a lot of fans have been hoping for would be best.



			
				From Trek Today said:
			
		

> Braga also discussed the storylines in development for Enterprise's fourth season, including the return of the Temporal Cold War. "One thing we're discussing is possibly blowing the lid off the Temporal Cold War once and for all," he reportedly said. "That's probably something we'll do in this first storyline. I can't say that for sure, because we're just getting into it. But I'd really like to resolve that and put a cap on it. It would be a nice thing to do after three seasons of teasing it along."




Yup.  Time to finish it up and move on through the rest of the series with some of what most of us have wanted.  It's been interesting but it needs to find some resolution.



			
				From Trek Today said:
			
		

> The foundation of the Federation could also start to figure heavily in the series. "There are going to be some major interstellar events and conflicts happening that could involve the forming of the federation. We're going to see more of what's going on back at Earth. We might see something dealing with the Eugenics Wars."




I think the Eugenics Wars would be better for a film, perhaps post Enterprise and something for this group of character to become involved, five or six years from now after the series has concluded.  This way they could build the Federation through the end of the series and then have a nice big threat to it and earth for the first movie with this cast, which I think has shown themselves to be fairly strong right out of the box.  Though many people have had their complaints about the story arc and the producers, I've seen very few complaints about the cast.


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## Express (Jul 14, 2004)

Romulan Wars could be interesting, but are going to use the 60's Kirk head CG implanted on a modern body double? Ive heard rumors of such sheningans..and I shudder.


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## Eternalknight (Jul 14, 2004)

Kirk wouldn't have been born during the Romulan Wars, so I can't see why they would do this.


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## Volaran (Jul 14, 2004)

Weren't Khan's Eugenics Wars in the 1990s in the Trek-verse?


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 14, 2004)

There was nothing wrong with the birth of the Federation idea, the problem is that they did not do it, Brandon and Rick took it into a timeline show and distanted themselves from the core of the ST myth.  Now they just are throwning out ideas that they think we the fans like but nothing changed, the focus is still their ideas on the TCW.


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## Alaric_Prympax (Jul 14, 2004)

Volaran said:
			
		

> Weren't Khan's Eugenics Wars in the 1990s in the Trek-verse?




IIRC yes to your question.  The _S.S. Bontany Bay_ was launched I believe in 1999.  I think the Eugenics Wars were fought btn 1996-1999.  I may have some dates off but yes there were in the 1990's so somehow we miss the lauch of sometype of advanced (at least for us) spacecraft.  You see what the government is hiding from us!   

I know that Gerg Cox wrote two novels dealing with Khan but I only read the first one.  I've got the second one around somewhere but I haven't read it yet.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jul 14, 2004)

The Eugenics Wars were also retconned to being in the 21st century, starting with the episode of DS9 where it's revealed that Bashir was genetically enhanced.  And implied to again as being in the 21st century in the Enterprise episode where Archer is trying to save those Xindi eggs.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 15, 2004)

As usual, there are discrepancies in the Trek Timeline...... Thanks to Braga and Berman rewriting Trek "history". The Eugenics war was supposed to be in the 1990s according to the Trek made by Roddenberry. And we weren't supposed to see Ferengi for many, many, many years. Same with Romulans who we had NEVER SEEN until TOS. I think even the Borg have shown up in Enterprise. Don't know for sure since I don't watch it. Watched tonight's ep which was 'eh'.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 15, 2004)

Actually, as roll-eye-smilie-errific as the Ferengi and Rommie appearances on 
 ENT were (as well as the later Borg appearance), the only continuity breakin' 
 they committed was givin' the Romulans cloaking devices and even that could 
 be explained away easily as bein' older not-as-advanced type of stealth tech 
 (after all, it's not like they had a hard time breakin' through the illusion, when
 compared to TOS/TNG era cloaks).

 Stretching continuity, definately, but breaking it? Not really.


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## orbitalfreak (Jul 15, 2004)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Same with Romulans who we had NEVER SEEN until TOS.



The Romulan War was fought a while before Kirk and TOS; the significance of "first meetings" with the Romulans in TOS is that it is then that we first see their faces.  Ship-to-ship contact had been made before.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 15, 2004)

Also of note the weapon being tested in STOS: Balance of Power was the Plasma Torp not the cloaking device.  

But why go with the Romulan Wars when you have the Klingons!  Romulans are intrigue behind the throne stuff, Klingons are action and the big boom.  You go with the Klingons and show why they were hated so much in Kirk's time, the raids, the slavery!  But nooooooo, they don't want to do bad Klingons.  

Don't get me wrong, seeing the Romulan war would be interesting as history but not as a story arc.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 15, 2004)

I must agree that I don't really want to see the Rommie war in ENT. 
 I mean, we just had a big scale war arc in Trek just a couple of years
 ago. Next thing, please.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 15, 2004)

"Two years ago"???

Oh, you mean _DS9,_ aired in the middle part of the 90's.

For us, it's been too long, especially having to suffer Braga's version of _VOYAGER_ and _ENTERPRISE_ as of late.

Bring back the Romulan War. It usually speed up the alliance that will form the Federation.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 15, 2004)

Allright, a few years ago, then.

 Hey, I ain't talkin' fondly of Braga, VOY or the first two seasons of ENT, 
 but I want something I haven't seen before in Trek. Not a rehash of the 
 good bits. I'm all for Birth of the Federation, as such, but any multi year 
 war arcs I'm not looking forward to. I already got that not only in DS9, 
 but B5 too!

 I want something Trek hasn't shown me yet.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jul 16, 2004)

I hope they honestly don't make that the next trek movie...

I want them to do something using parts of the TNG, DS9 and VOY cast in something.  There's still some plots left from those 3 series they can follow up on, especially with DS9, like a movie about the aftermath of the war left on Cardassia as Garak and others try to fix a politically unstable Cardassian Union, or some apocalyptic showdown between Dukat and Sisko, or even a movie that tries to explore the consequences of all the problems Janeway caused back in the Delta Quadrant.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 16, 2004)

orbitalfreak said:
			
		

> The Romulan War was fought a while before Kirk and TOS; the significance of "first meetings" with the Romulans in TOS is that it is then that we first see their faces.  Ship-to-ship contact had been made before.




Seen as in visually seen by anyone of the Federation due to the lack of visual technology to allow ship-to-ship visuals at the time. That was what I was meaning by my comment.....   Before Kirk had seen any of them, noone knew that they looked like their Vulcan buddies but with slimy, nasty attributes the Vulcans had rid themselves of.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 16, 2004)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Allright, a few years ago, then.
> 
> Hey, I ain't talkin' fondly of Braga, VOY or the first two seasons of ENT,
> but I want something I haven't seen before in Trek.



Oh, you mean like ... _ENTERPRISE_?    

Let's face it, conflict is exciting. 



			
				Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Not a rehash of the good bits. I'm all for Birth of the Federation, as such, but any multi year war arcs I'm not looking forward to. I already got that not only in DS9, but B5 too!
> 
> I want something Trek hasn't shown me yet.



I don't see any other way to start off the Birth of the Federation than having a stellar-scale conflict. Unless you want them to start off with an economic summit with regards to the trading and mining of dilithium resources and viola! The Federation is born.

I find more excitement watching souffle rising.

Not all rehash are bad, especially if done right. For example, one of the few handfuls of _VOY_ episode I like is "A Blink of an Eye" about a planet that is temporally out-of-sync with the rest of space but because the ship got trap in the wake it became part of that culture's mythos, as well as the continuing tremor. Anyone who watched _TOS_ recognized a familiar element from the episode, "A Wink of an Eye." Same element, two different stories (the old version is about a group of people who wanted to hijack Kirk's ship).


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 16, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Oh, you mean like ... _ENTERPRISE_?



 Didn't I say I wanted something I hadn't seen before? Didn't I say I didn't
 think fondly of ENT? Well, the problem with ENT is largely that while trying
 to give us something new, they gave us the same old crap as usual. VOY
 with a new crew.



> Let's face it, conflict is exciting.



 Can't really argue with that. Conflict can be very much exciting. I'm not
 saying I don't want any conflict. I'm just saying I don't want want a large
 scale war. Been there, done that. Next please.



> I don't see any other way to start off the Birth of the Federation than having a stellar-scale conflict.



 I don't really either. Which is why I said: "...as such."



> Not all rehash are bad, especially if done right. For example, one of the few handfuls of _VOY_ episode I like is "A Blink of an Eye" about a planet that is temporally out-of-sync with the rest of space but because the ship got trap in the wake it became part of that culture's mythos, as well as the continuing tremor. Anyone who watched _TOS_ recognized a familiar element from the episode, "A Wink of an Eye." Same element, two different stories (the old version is about a group of people who wanted to hijack Kirk's ship).



 Oh, they could do it well (or not) and I might like it very much and it could
 remember it as my favourite moment of Trek, ever. But until then, I'm not
 lookin' forward to the idea. Especially with the current creative team involved.

 Of course, they could take the Rommie war and give it somekinda spin. In
 fact, the Temporal Cold War could be a good spin. But it's just like Braga
 to think of a pretty neat idea like that and crash it into the ground. VOY
 was full of badly executed good ideas.

 Some people get lemons and make lemonade. Braga is the kinda a guy that
 makes concentrated sour.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 16, 2004)

Sorry, bro, but I prefer large-scale war. I hated when they decided to keep the so-called Cardassian War in the _TNG_ background. I mean despite the fact that _E-D_ is carrying families onboard, LaForge did say that this is the flagship of the fleet.

Trust me, you won't find anything exciting than that, especially if NX-01 should be involved. I mean it's like not using battleship _Missouri_ in World War II.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 16, 2004)

> Some people get lemons and make lemonade. Braga is the kinda a guy that makes concentrated sour.




More like: Braga's the guy who takes lemons and makes Yugos.......   

And definitely don't make season-ending cliffhangers! Unless you write both parts AT THE SAME TIME!!! Most cliffhangers they did, they wrote Pt. 1 at one time and then waited until near time to start shooting the season opener to write Pt. 2. Then it comes out lame and poorly planned as a result. And story arcs can be well done if, like the above, WRITTEN AT THE SAME TIME. DS9 only started story arcs because B5 was doing them and whipping their collective arses in the ratings dept.


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## Acid_crash (Jul 17, 2004)

I like Enterprise.  They cuss more.  

Maybe I'm blessed with not having the knowledge of Star Trek 'myth' as some of you put it, but since it is mostly conjecture and "myth", then if something is said to be fact that might be a little different than what some of you think is actual but is, in fact, "myth", then so be it.

Take the show for what it is, an answer to the beginning.  So what if they are taking their sweet time on the Birth of the Federation, but they will get to it.  

I'm blessed with the fact that I don't know all that "myth" but am watching the actual facts of the origins of the federation without being a judgemental person who feels I know better than the people with the money and the writers to write the show.  

Yes they had the Borg, but instead of thinking "Oh no, not the Borg," I saw it as an answer to how the Borg was heading to earth in the first place, and answered when ST:TNG and picard met with them in the first place...they were heading towards earth before picard met up with them...  now I have that answer as to how the Borg knew which direction on where to go.


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## Elf Witch (Jul 17, 2004)

Acid_crash said:
			
		

> I like Enterprise.  They cuss more.
> 
> Maybe I'm blessed with not having the knowledge of Star Trek 'myth' as some of you put it, but since it is mostly conjecture and "myth", then if something is said to be fact that might be a little different than what some of you think is actual but is, in fact, "myth", then so be it.
> 
> ...




I have been a trek fan since I was eight years old and watched tOS with my dad. I hade high hopes for Enterprise. I am also a big Scott Bakula fan. But I could not get into this show for so many reasons.

I despise the female characters and the lame excuses to get the Vulcan out of her clothes. And I kept wishing that someone would just kill Hoshi and put her and me out of our misery. "oh I am afraid" it made me want to gag.  

I hated what they did with the Vulcans. It goes against every thing ever said about the friendship between Earth and Vulcan.

I thought Archer and his crew came across as arrogant earthlings with little respect for other cultures. Which would have been fine if it was handled in a way to show why things like why the prime directive came about. Or they would get knocked down a few pegs.

I also did not like the temoral cold war because imo Trek usual does not do time travel stories very well it is usually treated like a way to do bad things and then just set the reset button to bring everything back to the norm.

With all those things going on that I didn't like the fact that it also played fast and lose with the whole Trek mythous was just the proverbial last straw for me.


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## aurance (Jul 17, 2004)

Acid_crash said:
			
		

> I'm blessed with the fact that I don't know all that "myth" but am watching the actual facts of the origins of the federation without being a judgemental person who feels I know better than the people with the money and the writers to write the show.




They may have the money and the writers and whatnot, but it's the regular viewer whose opinions matter the most. And so far it seems Enterprise has failed to impress the public.

This sentiment comes up again and again... you know, "if you haven't done it, don't judge it" fallacy. Well, entertainment is meant to be consumed by people outside the industry, not by other entertainers, so let it be judged by the public. This applies to tv, art, music, whatever.


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## Acid_crash (Jul 17, 2004)

aurance said:
			
		

> They may have the money and the writers and whatnot, but it's the regular viewer whose opinions matter the most. And so far it seems Enterprise has failed to impress the public.
> 
> This sentiment comes up again and again... you know, "if you haven't done it, don't judge it" fallacy. Well, entertainment is meant to be consumed by people outside the industry, not by other entertainers, so let it be judged by the public. This applies to tv, art, music, whatever.




Very true, and I won't argue against that.

Still, I just take it as one show at a time, and maybe by the end of the show, if allowed to get through to the very end, maybe all of this will make more sense.  

I do hope they get over the whole Temporal Cold War thing also, three years is a long time...but then again, in TNG, the entire story for that show was dealing with Q and his dumb trial at the beginning and how the entire show was a test of Q's and him testing humanity over and over and over again...  I thought that was okay, but dumb, but I still watched and liked the show.


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## Orius (Jul 18, 2004)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Didn't I say I wanted something I hadn't seen before? Didn't I say I didn't think fondly of ENT? Well, the problem with ENT is largely that while trying to give us something new, they gave us the same old crap as usual. VOY with a new crew.




I agree completely.  Braga and Berman just couldn't keep the whole prequel stuff in mind, and then they use the TCW to retcon on a massive scale.  You know, Enterprise would have worked fine without the Suliban at all.  Look how popular the Andorians are.  Hell, most of my favorite Enterprise episodes have nothing to do with the TCW.  



> Can't really argue with that. Conflict can be very much exciting. I'm not saying I don't want any conflict. I'm just saying I don't want want a large scale war. Been there, done that. Next please.




Well, given the timeframe, the Romulan Wars seem pretty much a no-brainer in the series.  Most fans are pretty much expecting them to come up eventually.  



> Oh, they could do it well (or not) and I might like it very much and it could remember it as my favourite moment of Trek, ever. But until then, I'm not lookin' forward to the idea. Especially with the current creative team involved.




Yeah, I have to agree.  I don't really have much faith in B&B myself atm.



> Of course, they could take the Rommie war and give it somekinda spin. In fact, the Temporal Cold War could be a good spin. But it's just like Braga to think of a pretty neat idea like that and crash it into the ground. VOY was full of badly executed good ideas.




And Enterprise has had it's share of that was well.  I also think the the TCW may very well end up triggering the Romulan War along the way.  Maybe the Federation is formed because of various posed by the TCW and/or the Romulans.



> Some people get lemons and make lemonade. Braga is the kinda a guy that makes concentrated sour.




Heh.


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## Orius (Jul 18, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Sorry, bro, but I prefer large-scale war. I hated when they decided to keep the so-called Cardassian War in the _TNG_ background. I mean despite the fact that _E-D_ is carrying families onboard, LaForge did say that this is the flagship of the fleet.




Um, if I'm not mistaken, the Cardassian War took place like 10-15 years before TNG.  So that's why it was in the background.



> Trust me, you won't find anything exciting than that, especially if NX-01 should be involved. I mean it's like not using battleship _Missouri_ in World War II.




Yeah, but we're talking the same Starfleet that NEVER has enough ships to defend Earth, etc.  Starfleet always makes very bad tactical decisions.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 18, 2004)

Elf Witch said:
			
		

> I despise the female characters and the lame excuses to get the Vulcan out of her clothes. And I kept wishing that someone would just kill Hoshi and put her and me out of our misery. "oh I am afraid" it made me want to gag.
> 
> I hated what they did with the Vulcans. It goes against every thing ever said about the friendship between Earth and Vulcan.
> 
> ...



I'd rather not kill the characters, I'd rather fire the writers, because they are ultimately responsible for the development of stories and characters. Unfortunately, it may be that way because the writing staff is under Braga's leadership.

If Manny Coto, the new showrunner, can manage to make their characters more interesting (I like Sato; as an Asian she has to represent) as well as the stories (as soon as they conclude the TCW story arc), then we may see a return of longtime _Trek_ fans.

Kinda like what _D&D_ 3e did (brought back many 1st edition fans).


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## Ranger REG (Jul 18, 2004)

Orius said:
			
		

> Um, if I'm not mistaken, the Cardassian War took place like 10-15 years before TNG.  So that's why it was in the background.



Really? So what's with the Federation-Cardassian Treaty and the Demilitarized Zone, which gave us a free Bajor and the formation of the Maquis?




			
				Orius said:
			
		

> Yeah, but we're talking the same Starfleet that NEVER has enough ships to defend Earth, etc.  Starfleet always makes very bad tactical decisions.



Yeah, but this is Earth's Starfleet, not yet the Federation's Starfleet.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 19, 2004)

Feh. Every time there's a "disaster", the only ship within range is, of course, the Enterprise (whichever version) with no backup within a week's journey (or so). That gets old quite quick. Why don't they come to the assistance of another ship and TOGETHER they solve the dilemma?!?!?!


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## Kax Tuglebend (Jul 19, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Really? So what's with the Federation-Cardassian Treaty and the Demilitarized Zone, which gave us a free Bajor and the formation of the Maquis?




i was going to put it in my own words, but then i found it online:

The Cardassians fought a bloody war with the Federation which finally ended in 2366 when an uneasy truce was reached. The armistice that ended the conflict was negotiated over a period of over three years by Admiral Alynna Nechayev, with Starfleet Captain Edward Jellico playing a large part in the negotiations. An item of note regarding the treaty is that Ambassador Spock openly disagreed with his father, the legendary Ambassador Sarek, over the outcome of the armistice. Border disputes would not be settled until the Federation-Cardassian Treaty in 2370. 

i'm fairly certain actually that the Cardassian withdrawerel from Bajor was not a part of the Federation-Cardassian Treaty but a totally seperate decision by the Cardassian civilian government


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## Eternalknight (Jul 19, 2004)

Another news item from trektoday:



> Brannon Braga, executive producer of Star Trek: Enterprise, called the show's ratings "an enormously complicated issue" and wondered whether viewers have had their fill of Star Trek.
> 
> Speaking to Dreamwatch (via TrekWeb), Braga said that there was no doubt that the franchise had lost viewers over the past decade and more.
> 
> ...


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## Ranger REG (Jul 19, 2004)

I'm afraid if I rolled my eyes one more time, they may lodge out of the sockets.


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## myrdden (Jul 19, 2004)

> "You've got to put it in the context of ratings in general if you're going to compare the numbers for Enterprise to the numbers for The Next Generation," he said. "Very few people had cable and there was no satellite TV. Things are different now."




I'm not sure what Braga is trying to say?  Is he saying that there is more choice for viewers now which inevitably cuts into the number of viewers for Enterprise and that is the reason why ratings are down?


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 19, 2004)

*Can DATA Save Enterprise!*

Spiner Beams To Enterprise 

Star Trek: The Next Generation star Brent Spiner (Data) will guest star in UPN's upcoming fourth season of Star Trek: Enterprise, according to The Hollywood Reporter. Spiner has been tapped to do three episodes of the Trek prequel series, playing the great-great-grandfather of Dr. Noonien Soong, the creator of Data. Spiner previously played Dr. Soong in an episode of TNG.

Rumors also suggest that original Star Trek star William Shatner may also pay a visit to Enterprise, but sources told the trade paper that there are no immediate plans for a guest appearance. Enterprise, originally scheduled for 9 p.m. ET/PT Fridays in the fall, will now air at 8 p.m., the trade paper reported.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-07/19/10.00.tv


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 19, 2004)

Basically, for those new to those news, Shatner was planned for a guest spot, 
 playing Kirk's ancestor, but then he couldn't do it because of his work in the 
 new Practice spin-off. So a little rewritin' is done and voila! Brent Spiner fills 
 the spot.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 19, 2004)

But mostly it is fluff, lets pull a rabit out of our hat and see if we can't get someone to care, because we really don't need those guys to play the role, just their name for fan recognition.


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## Raven Crowking (Jul 19, 2004)

I imagine that I am in the minority here, but I think that *Enterprise* is the best Star Trek since TOS.  Castwise, Phlox makes it onto the list of "Best Trek Characters Ever" so quickly that even he can't smile widely enough.  The long-term storylines (like the Xindi, the Klingons, the Andorians, etc.) are woven together much sooner (and, IMO, much better) than they were on DS9 -- and that was almost all DS9 had going for it.  When the _Enterprise_ is damaged, it *stays* damaged until repaired.  The same goes for crew.  Oh, if only that had been true on _*Voyager*_!

Now, I know that TNG is going to be hailed as a landmark, but the way I remember it, I didn't get hooked on TNG until the 4th Season.  Looking back, I can enjoy the episodes from Seasons 1-3, but it took TNG a lot longer to find its niche.  *And* TNG had Wesley Crusher.     Riker wanted to be Kirk, but wasn't even close.  Every time they left him in charge of the ship, he messed up.  Troi was written almost exclusively as a whiner or the Trek version of Big Brother ("If you won't tell me what's bothering you, Reginald, you're off duty until you do." -- why not simply "until you've solved the problem and your emotional state is better."?).  Worf, Data, and Picard were great.  They had some good backup characters, too.

On *Enterprise*, when the MACOs die, we have to deal with the consequences.  It comes up again.  TNG did that with Tasha Yar...but who else?  Who did *Voyager* do that with?

Sure, _*Enterprise*_ has a few dog episodes.  But, overall, the episodes are better than anything on DS9 or _*Voyager*_, and are comparable to the better episodes on TNG.  _*Enterprise*_ is also trying to create a path between where we are now, from a social and ethical perspective, and the better future we've been imagining since Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beamed down to deal with a salt vampire.  This is a harder task to accomplish than simply providing a "Wagon Train to the stars" and is, frankly, worth attempting.

Why is it so much easier to tear down each episode than to recognize the genuinely good work that is being done here?

But, then again, fans are their own worst enemies.  It was true for _*Doctor Who*_, where the fans kept complaining no matter what the BBC did, until they just chucked the whole thing, and it's true here too.  Paramount tried to remove the "Star Trek" from _*Enterprise*_, in part, I think, because of this:   _*Enterprise*_ must succeed not because of, but despite, those who think of themselves as Star Trek fans.

Of course, this is all just my opinion.  But I will remind you of this:  Fox and the BBC were going to produce a new _*Doctor Who*_ series in the late 90's.  Despite being pitted against the final episode of _Rosanne_ (which was a mega-hit at that time), the TV-movie/pilot did pretty well in the ratings.  The fans, though, complained vocally.  A lot.  And the project died.  Only now is the BBC revisiting the programme.

RC


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## Ranger REG (Jul 20, 2004)

They tried? Only this season did they use the _Star Trek_ label preceding the show's title.

I was perfectly happy without the label. It helped to stomach the show as not being part of the _Star Trek_ "prime" universe, just one of those alternate universes or parallel realities. All I want them to do is focus on the relations between the founding members of the Federation, including Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans, Alpha Centaurans, etc.

Now that we're almost done with the Xindi/Delphic Expanse story arc, I can only pray that they wrap up the Temporal Cold War main arc. When it comes to Braga and time-travel stories, they don't mix.


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## Vigilance (Jul 20, 2004)

To say that Enterprise is better than DS9 might be the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. 

DS9 had about half a dozen minor characters that I liked and loved seeing when they appeared such as: Garak, Gul Dukat, Kai Wyn, General Martok, Weyoun, Vic Fontain and so forth.

Many of these characters were better than Enterprise's main characters imo. 

I like Archer, T'Pal, and I agree about Phlox, he's awesome. However, three good characters aren't enough. The stories just aren't the good.

And now we come to the fan-boy crackback part of your post. Don't complain about Enterprise or they'll pull it? Boy that's a great rationale. That's like feeding someone oatmeal everyday, then when they complain, just not feeding them at all. 

Here's the deal, pulling Enterprise isn't much of threat, because the audience is leaving in droves anyway. 

Im not a fan boy waiting to complain about anything. I desperately wanted Enteprise to succeed, and I think most fans are the same way, quite the opposite of your characterization. But the show sucks. 

Voyager was more entertaining.

There I said it. Voyager had some absolutely silly recurring themes, that kept me from taking the show seriously, like the fact that they blew up about 30 shuttles. However, I was at least entertained while watching it.

Enterprise gets turned off half way through with a yawn about half the time.

One last thing. Braga mentions that 4 million viewers is nothing to sneeze at and he's right.

However TNG pulled in 12 million at its height, DS9 did a lot better, heck even Voyager's ratings were better.

It isnt cable TV's Braga, it isnt the FANS fault for whining Raven.

The show just isn't drawing viewers.

You like it and I respect that.

However, I can only stomach the show about half the time (usually when the Andorians or Klingons show up, coincidentally). 

And like Ranger, I am just praying they finally *get on with the story* of the Birth of the Federation and dump the TCW. 

Chuck


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## Raven Crowking (Jul 20, 2004)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> To say that Enterprise is better than DS9 might be the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.




Everyone's tastes are different, of course.  I started out by noting that I am obviously in the minority here.  If you think, say, Season 3 of DS9 was better than Season 3 of Enterprise, well, that's your right.  I'll agree that DS9 was strong _at the end_, but I personally found the beginning weak.

I am glad that you liked many of DS9's minor characters.  Obviously, Dax was an extremely strong character for the series, and they also pulled in some from TNG, presumably for those of us who didn't think there was anything special about many of these characters.

I do agree that DS9 had some great stories.  In fact, I will agree without hesitation that DS9 had the best time travel story in Star Trek history....well, at least to date.  (No, not Trials and Tribblations, as good as that was, I refer to the story where Sisko ends up skipping through time and Jake grows old trying to rescue him.  _That_ was _*brilliant*_!)  But, in my opinion only (perhaps literally mine only), Enterprise is better.



> And now we come to the fan-boy crackback part of your post. Don't complain about Enterprise or they'll pull it? Boy that's a great rationale. That's like feeding someone oatmeal everyday, then when they complain, just not feeding them at all.




There's a difference between constructive criticism and knee-jerk reaction.  As I said, Enterprise has had some dog episodes.  It has also had some very good episodes.  The good outweigh the bad.

Star Trek often revisits themes, and has done so since the beginning.  The episode, Sim, revisited an important theme from the Voyager episode, Tuvix.  From an ethical standpoint alone, the Enterprise episode is better.  There is a clear an imminent threat that prompts Archer to require Sim's death.  Nothing substantial requires the same of Janeway.  Sim's development and decision-making is shown over a series of scenes.  Tuvix isn't given the same chance to protest.  Tuvix is Sim-lite.



> However, I can only stomach the show about half the time (usually when the Andorians or Klingons show up, coincidentally).
> 
> And like Ranger, I am just praying they finally *get on with the story* of the Birth of the Federation and dump the TCW.




I do believe that, while art is subjective, that there are objective standards as well.  I know that I'm not going to convince anyone that Enterprise meets and exceeds those objective standards just on my say-so.  But I do believe that this is the case.  Off the top of my head, I can only think of 3-4 episodes in the first three seasons that fail by that standard, but I can easily think of more for any other Star Trek series.  Which doesn't mean that there are no redeeming qualities for those particular episodes -- I quite like Spock's Brain -- but it does, I think, indicate that a lot more effort is being put into Enterprise than, say Voyager.  And it shows.

Of course, people watch these programs for different reasons, and the reason you watch makes a pretty big difference as to what your opinion will be.  Clearly, you may have some very specific ideas as to what _should_ be presented.  Allow me to suggest that those ideas might interfere with your objective analysis of what _is_ being presented.  Or, if not your analysis, at least the analysis of a hypothetical someone.  I certainly found that my expectations interfered with my initial enjoyment of both the Star Wars prequel movies, and the LotR trilogy (I got over it).

Apart from not liking the characters (except, apparently, Phlox and T'Pol), what is it you don't like about Enterprise, anyway?  Not enough slam-bam-zap-em-up action?  



			
				Dart K'Trava said:
			
		

> Feh. Every time there's a "disaster", the only ship within range is, of course, the Enterprise (whichever version) with no backup within a week's journey (or so). That gets old quite quick. Why don't they come to the assistance of another ship and TOGETHER they solve the dilemma?!?!?!




Happened in Enterprise already, in the first season.  The episode where Trip gets pregnant.


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## myrdden (Jul 20, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> I was perfectly happy without the label. It helped to stomach the show as not being part of the _Star Trek_ "prime" universe, just one of those alternate universes or parallel realities. All I want them to do is focus on the relations between the founding members of the Federation, including Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans, Alpha Centaurans, etc.




For me this is where the greatest dissapointment lies with ENT.  I really didn't closely follow the press releases regarding the show, so as far as I knew I was getting a Star Trek show set before TOS.  I had no idea about time travel or the TCW.  The first season aired and I thought it was pretty good for a first season.  The TCW elements were a bit of a let down, but the show had high production values and great potential.  The second season and a third season has just given me more of what I didn't want - the TCW and storylines that just don't do much for me.  I will say though that the second half of the third season (when I caught it) was more entertaining.  But the season finale...  ?

Overall I have been dissapointed with the show in terms of story writing and characterization.  I was expecting a prequal along the lines of TOS with people not too different from people today.  The Birth of the Federation, the Romulan War, exploration of space, old school Klingons, Orions and a gritier feel to the show.  Instead I got time travel and a more TNG feel than TOS.


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## Ronin84 (Jul 21, 2004)

I had to weigh in here.  I have also been watching ST for a long time, 1971 is the first time I can actually remember sitting down and watching a repeat.  Last year though, Stargate supplanted Star Trek as my favorite sci-fi show.  Why, because I care about the characters.

For me the TOS crew will always be larger than life, TNG crew because they brought back the franchise.  DS9, WAS bad it's first three seasons, it finally started warming up in season 4, side note, didn't Worf come over in season 4?
Which brings me to Voyager, PLEASE, that had to be the worse writing and acting of them all, and I think that you get that if you listen to any of the actors speak about the show.  Continuity was not the strong point and in fact I can't remember what the strong point of the show was.  (Unless the acting of Robert Picardo (sp) is it)  Enterprise has had some good moments in this last season, I actually wanted to see the last 4 or 5 episodes, but like RangerReg (hello) I agree can we be done with TCW.  When I saw the end of last season with the "Nazi" uniforms and German in the background, I had a few things to say in those colorful metaphors we all use.

Ok enough rant....Stargate on this Friday can't wait...Enterprise season 4 well since it is now on Friday's, I'll catch you in the reruns.  You are about to get buried in the ratings.


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## myrdden (Jul 21, 2004)

I am curious though, if it is true that the next Star Trek movie involves the Romulan War, if the movie can draw an audience with an unknown cast.  By unknown I mean "not having appeared on the TV show".  I think one of the strengths (or perhaps lure) of the ST movies has been the fact that the characters were familar from the TV show, whether it be TOS or TNG.

Do you think this movie would work with an unfamiliar crew? (assumming the story and other production values were well done)


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 21, 2004)

myrdden said:
			
		

> Do you think this movie would work with an unfamiliar crew? (assumming the story and other production values were well done)




It would come down to star power, who they would have in the movie.  I think what we may see: Tom Cruse as Captain Ethan Hawk, hero of the Romulan War, his foe Commander Maximus Asshous played by Russel Crowe.  I am not saying this is a bad thing but I do feel it is.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2004)

I still say they need to get everyone they can from TNG, DS9, and VOY, throw them all into a continuing storyline, then have fans vote over the internet as to which character should be killed off each week.  Should last about two seasons until only one is left who could, of course, wake up sweating in their bed and realizing it was all a dream...


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## myrdden (Jul 21, 2004)

Mark said:
			
		

> I still say they need to get everyone they can from TNG, DS9, and VOY, throw them all into a continuing storyline, then have fans vote over the internet as to which character should be killed off each week.  Should last about two seasons until only one is left who could, of course, wake up sweating in their bed and realizing it was all a dream...




Federation Idol?


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## mojo1701 (Jul 21, 2004)

myrdden said:
			
		

> Federation Idol?




Survivor: Federation. "The Crew has Spoken."


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2004)

Just before the scene in each episode where a cast member is offed, they come back with a black screen and an ominous voice that proclaims, "The fans have spoken..."  Then the scene opens with a close up of the person who will be removed from the show.  In this way we can focus on them during the scene even if they are killed non-chalantly in the background.


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## myrdden (Jul 21, 2004)

Or it could be "The Amazing Space"?

[Imagine]

Phil Keoghan appears on the view screen in an Admiral's uniform.

"The last crew to make it to Wolf 359, will be eliminated..."

(cue Klingons...)

[/Imagine]


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## Vigilance (Jul 22, 2004)

Actually I thought I read that Paramount/Viacom was looking into mixing and matching characters from different shows (I am assuming they meant TNG-DS9-Voy) though I suppose that would also allow you to bring in Nimoy, who appeared on TNG.

So let's see, a Romulan War set in the time of TNG (rather than the original) with Spock, Picard, Data, Worf, Sisko, O'brien, Tuvok and the Holo Doc.

I'd pay to see that.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 22, 2004)

Spoiler Warning 


Spoiler



Enterprise Spoilers Revealed​
Rick Berman, executive producer of UPN's Star Trek: Enterprise, revealed to SCI FI Wire several spoilers for the upcoming fourth season, including the possible casting of original Star Trek star William Shatner (Capt. Kirk) in a familiar role. "We're still discussing it with Bill," Berman said in an interview at UPN's fall press preview in Los Angeles. "He had a terrific episode [idea], and we had a nice long lunch meeting with him a couple of weeks ago. And there's a lot of things that need to get ironed out in terms of scheduling, in terms of money. ... But he would play an incarnation of a Kirk, yes. He would not be playing another character."

Berman added that the upcoming season will feature several stand-alone episodes and "miniarcs" of two or three episodes, as contrasted with season three's season-long Xindi storyline. "We're going in new directions for the fourth season, and hopefully there's going to be a mixture of smaller arcs," Berman said. "The first two episodes are going to be a small arc. And then there's going to be a single episode. And then there's going to be a three-episode arc. And there's going to be some levity, and there's also going to be some heavy subjects dealt with."

Among the other spoilers Berman and cast members revealed to SCI FI Wire:
•In addition to the previously announced guest appearance of Star Trek: The Next Generation star Brent Spiner as an ancestor of Data's creator, guest stars will include Girlfriends' Golden Brooks and The Sopranos' Steve Schirripa. "He plays a character in 1944," Berman said, referring to the season premiere.
•T'Pol (Jolene Blalock) may find herself getting married in episode three, Blalock said in an interview.
•The long-standing Temporal Cold War arc will be resolved in the first two episodes.
•The new season will be the first shot entirely on high-definition digital video instead of film as a cost-saving measure. UPN renewed the ratings-challenged Enterprise in part because Paramount, which produces the show, agreed to lower its license fee for the series.
•Manny Coto, a writer (Showtime's Odyssey 5) who joined the series in the third season and was responsible for many of the Xindi storylines, has been promoted to "show runner," in charge of the day-to-day operations and writing, while previous show runner Brannon Braga steps back into a more executive role.

Star Trek: Enterprise returns to UPN on Oct. 8 in its new 8 p.m. ET/PT Friday timeslot.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 22, 2004)

Sounds good all around. Hopeful.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 23, 2004)

Why do we need a "Kirk clone"? ::snippets of "I Think I'm A Clone Now" start running thru the brain::   

Who would T'Pol marry? Whichever that dude [can't recall which character it was] was in season 1 that she had to share the decontamination chamber with?


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Jul 23, 2004)

When I read about this show I had visions of "low tech" space travel with a more of a submarine feel than an Enterprise-D feel, which is what we got IMO.   More of a missle based combat instead of "phase canons" which are just phasers.  No viewscreens and low tech communications and sensors compared to the later shows, I do like how they don't use transporters very much, and plenty of stories that draws off the background of given in the other shows.  Instead I got more Star Trek as usual.  And it wasn't even well written.  

I love TOS, liked DS9 & TNG, was apathetic about Voyager...but I don't care in the least for what has been done with Enterprise.   I know I was dissapointed that I didnt' get to see the history of the other shows in action, but I would have kept watching it if it had been interesting.  It wasn't even that.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 23, 2004)

A) Who says it's a clone. Sounds to me, it's supposed to be the real deal.
 B) Well, she did have a romantic plotline going with Trip in season 3, although 
 I'm thinking that she might be gettin' married to that Vulcan she was supposed
 to marry earlier in the series, but decided to postpone the wedding to stay on
 the Enterprise.


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## Acid_crash (Jul 23, 2004)

Braga is leaving the writing position and is letting someone else who is a better writer step in to run the show's direction...that's a positive isn't it???


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 23, 2004)

And old news. 

 But yeah, he is. Manny Coto, who's the writer behind all of ENT's better season 3 episodes.


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## mojo1701 (Jul 24, 2004)

Yes! 



Spoiler



The Temporal Cold War will be over!





			
				Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> A) Who says it's a clone. Sounds to me, it's supposed to be the real deal.




Maybe we'll be getting like the other end of one of those accidental time-travel episodes, where instead the traveller's friends have to save him, the receivers do. 



> _B) Well, she did have a romantic plotline going with Trip in season 3, although I'm thinking that she might be gettin' married to that Vulcan she was supposed to marry earlier in the series, but decided to postpone the wedding to stay on the Enterprise._




And probably have a son named Sarek...?


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## Orius (Jul 25, 2004)

myrdden said:
			
		

> Overall I have been dissapointed with the show in terms of story writing and characterization.  I was expecting a prequal along the lines of TOS with people not too different from people today.  The Birth of the Federation, the Romulan War, exploration of space, old school Klingons, Orions and a gritier feel to the show.  Instead I got time travel and a more TNG feel than TOS.




I have to more or less agree.  I want more old-school and less time travel retconning.  I want more Andorians, Tellarites, Klingons, and especially Romulans, not Suliban, Xindi and whatever other alien they're using to show us, "Look, we can do more than foreheads now!".   I wouldn't say Enterprise sucks, but the episodes I like have nothing to do with the TCW, Suliban, Xindi, or Daniels ex Machina.


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## Orius (Jul 25, 2004)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Sounds good all around. Hopeful.




Yup, sounds good here.   Ending the TCW, having Manny Coto taking over more creative control, and so on makes it sound like enterprise might finally start hitting it's stride.  But then TNG and DS9 needed like 3 years to get up and running to.  For the record though, I actually liked the earlier TNG episodes better.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 25, 2004)

Well, actually I kinda like the TCW. I mean, I can't say that the 
 execution of the theme has been done all that well, but I really
 like the concept.


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## qstor (Jul 25, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Sorry, bro, but I prefer large-scale war. I hated when they decided to keep the so-called Cardassian War in the _TNG_ background. I mean despite the fact that _E-D_ is carrying families onboard, LaForge did say that this is the flagship of the fleet.
> 
> Trust me, you won't find anything exciting than that, especially if NX-01 should be involved. I mean it's like not using battleship _Missouri_ in World War II.




What bothered me MORE is when they didn't use it in the Dominion War. Jeez...I mean the Federation was really in deep doo doo.
All in the name of NOT stepping on DS9's shoes...

Now that would be a good movie but of course it would be re-writing Trek history.

Mike


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## Aaron L (Jul 27, 2004)

qstor said:
			
		

> What bothered me MORE is when they didn't use it in the Dominion War. Jeez...I mean the Federation was really in deep doo doo.
> All in the name of NOT stepping on DS9's shoes...
> 
> Now that would be a good movie but of course it would be re-writing Trek history.
> ...





Just because they didn't show it, doesn't mean it wasn't being used.  The Enterprise is part of the 3rd fleet, which is a back up fleet that drifts around and has no permanent assignment, and hangs back until it is called in as reinforcement.  That's why they were always out wandering and exploring instead of patrolling a route.


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## Visceris (Jul 27, 2004)

Okay, I read this entire thread and I have to say I like Enterprise.  It is far better than Voyager and the TOS.  Not as good as DS9 or TNG, but its getting there.  Now, about this Temporal Cold War story arc.  The way to get Kirk incarnation into the mix, and blow the lid of this story arc is quite simple:

The Temporal Cold War becomes a Hot War.  Think on the rammifcations on that.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 28, 2004)

qstor said:
			
		

> What bothered me MORE is when they didn't use it in the Dominion War. Jeez...I mean the Federation was really in deep doo doo.
> All in the name of NOT stepping on DS9's shoes...



AFAIK, Berman consider _DS9_ to be the "middle child" to ignore, despite the success it brought. It had far better writers and continuity editors to keep story and character development in-line as possible.

AFAIC, whatever we longtime _Trek_ fans want, is largely ignored by Berman & Braga. That's like a DJ playing his own selection of music while ignoring fan requests, but no one is actually dancing to his tunes and that can bring a party down quick.

Overall, I've yet to like _ENTERPRISE._ But if Manny Coto can bring back the old magic that made me fall in love with a cerebrally-challenging sci-fi show in the first place, then like the 1st edition fans who find new life in 3e, I and so many others will return.


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## Mark (Jul 28, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> AFAIK, Berman consider _DS9_ to be the "middle child" to ignore...




On what do you base this knowledge?



			
				Ranger REG said:
			
		

> AFAIC, whatever we longtime _Trek_ fans want, is largely ignored...




I'm a long time fan (watched TOS as a kid, first run) and have enjoyed the majority of Enterprise episodes.  Then again, I have no problem enjoying most of Voyager, DS9, or TNG either.

I'm looking forward to the new direction but I haven't been crying foul, for the most part, in regard to the TCW or any of the other choices made with Enterprise.  In fact, I think the characters of Enterprise have been the strongest "out of the box" on any of the five series.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 28, 2004)

Mark said:
			
		

> On what do you base this knowledge?



I've yet to see Berman use one of the known _DS9_ cast (Worf notwithstanding) in a future movie since that series have been off the air.




			
				Mark said:
			
		

> I'm a long time fan (watched TOS as a kid, first run) and have enjoyed the majority of Enterprise episodes.  Then again, I have no problem enjoying most of Voyager, DS9, or TNG either.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the new direction but I haven't been crying foul, for the most part, in regard to the TCW or any of the other choices made with Enterprise.  In fact, I think the characters of Enterprise have been the strongest "out of the box" on any of the five series.



Apparently, I don't see it. In fact, other than my default attachment to any asian/filipino/hawaiian characters, I find myself trying so hard to appeal or care about any of the other characters in _ENTERPRISE_ than I do with the other _Trek_ series, with the exception of _VOYAGER_ (but then the holographic Doc did get through to me).

If you want Braga, you can have him. I don't want him near my _Trek._


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