# thoughts on reorganizing forums?



## EricNoah (Nov 8, 2002)

Hi folks

We've been tossing around some thoughts about reorganizing the forums a smidge and would like any ideas and/or feedback you'd care to provide.  

One thought was to consolidate some lesser used forums -- say Places & Plots with Rogues Gallery, for example.  

Another thought that comes to mind is that the advent of d20 Modern might necessitate either its own board or maybe some other kind of reorganization with the d20 System Games forum, the d20 Publishers forum, and General.  

So fire away!  Keep in mind that one reason for separate forums is to make sure there are places where various topics can be discussed and where you can be reasonably sure it will be "on topic" almost all of the time.  Another is for ease of locating certain kinds of threads.  

There's a fine line between chopping things up too finely and not chopping them up much at all and hopefully we can find a solution that's good for everyone.  We are probably not talking about drastic changes here, maybe just a few simple ones if they make sense.


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## Magic Rub (Nov 8, 2002)

You might want to make a "Clownland" Forum for all of the [OT], [HIVEMIND], [OT SPORTS], and other misc. threads that pop up in The General & Meta Forums all the time. That may be to fine of a chop...??????


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## Knight Otu (Nov 8, 2002)

I think a "Hivemind" or "Clownland" forum would be too off-topic for the ENTeam to be comfortable with.

I don't think that d20 Modern should get an extra forum, d20 System should fit well enough.

The Conversions forum could possibly dropped, and it's contents split among House Rules, CC, and Plots&Places/Rogue Gallery. If necessary, the Middle Earth d20 threads could get an extra Hosted Sites forum.

D&D software could become Software and Computers, as many moderators have moved technical problems into that forum.

I'm wondering if it is neccessary to keep d20 Publishers and d20 System Games seperate?

(Could non-moderators get read-only access to the Mods forum?  - just joking!)


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## EricNoah (Nov 8, 2002)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> *
> (Could non-moderators get read-only access to the Mods forum?  - just joking!) *




Well while we're at it why not have a forum that everyone EXCEPT the mods could visit.  Now that would be fun!


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## Morrus (Nov 8, 2002)

What about a previous edition forum?  I'd like to encourage more 1E/2E talk (although not at the expense of the 3E!).


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## Dragongirl (Nov 8, 2002)

I don't think D20 Modern needs it's own forum.  Is there really that much interest in it?  Maybe just a [modern] tag.  And of course I am for an OT/Hivemind/Pantheon/Whatever forum, but I will not hold my breath.


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## Buttercup (Nov 8, 2002)

Well, Plots & Places and Rogue's Gallery are both really for discussing topics that only apply to DMs.  You could combine them into a DM forum.  This might or might not include house rules.  Since many of us who DM know some of our players read these boards from time to time, it might be nice to put all DM related stuff into one place, so we could warn our players to just stay out of that forum.  I don't have any great attachment to this idea, it's just off the top of my head.

At this time I don't think D20 Modern needs its own forum, but that could change, of course.

I don't play any of the previous editions, but I do think it might be nice to have a forum for them.  You could either put it in the D&D/D20 section, or change the name of that one to D&D3E/D20 and put the previous edition forum in Bits & Pieces, for which there might be a better name.  Miscellany, for example.


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## Mark (Nov 8, 2002)

Buttercup said:
			
		

> *Well, Plots & Places and Rogue's Gallery are both really for discussing topics that only apply to DMs.  You could combine them into a DM forum.  This might or might not include house rules.  Since many of us who DM know some of our players read these boards from time to time, it might be nice to put all DM related stuff into one place, so we could warn our players to just stay out of that forum.  I don't have any great attachment to this idea, it's just off the top of my head.*




FWIW, I think this is an outstanding idea. 

*Edit* ...and I'd suggest just utilizing the d20 Systems forum for d20 Modern-specific threads (as is being done currently anyway.)  The first page of that forum currenlt has week old threads and the influx of d20 Modern threads isn't going to harm that forum provided tags are used, IMO.  If it proves to be a much larger phenominon than it is, perhaps consider giving it its own forum but I don't see this as any more of a problem than E-Tools threads having been moved to the Software forum. *End Edit*


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 8, 2002)

Buttercup said:
			
		

> *Well, Plots & Places and Rogue's Gallery are both really for discussing topics that only apply to DMs... *



i'm not sure combining them would be such a good idea...

if you check Rogue's Gallery right now, most of the first page are threads about PCs, mostly from Story Hours



and, i would at least wait to see how popular d20 Modern becomes before creating an entire forum to it. in a few weeks the fervor may die down...


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## Mark (Nov 8, 2002)

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> i'm not sure combining them would be such a good idea...
> 
> if you check Rogue's Gallery right now, most of the first page are threads about PCs, mostly from Story Hours*




Yeah but those threads on the first page go back for nearly a month and the writer of a story hour can always add a link into their first post to make finding them easier (if necessary.)  (...and no offense since I do see your point.  )

I'd like to add the suggestion that the Art Gallery & Miniatures forum be retitled the Art Gallery, Maps & Miniatures forum (and even allowing the occasional mapping software question to be left in/moved to it.  Those types of software questions do not arise that often and can be very helpful to artists (just as threads that start as art showcases often have a large component of artistic softwware content.)


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## Henry (Nov 8, 2002)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> (Could non-moderators get read-only access to the Mods forum?  - just joking!) [/B]




You wouldn't like it there - what with all the moved inflammatory threads, the talk of reorganizations, the boring business, the all-night orgies, the drunken revelries, the throwing of water balloons at pictures of Hong, the "pin the tail on the DM" parties - it's no good for people of healthy minds and morals.


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## Sir Osis of Liver (Nov 8, 2002)

I think combineing several formus into a DM's forum would be an excellent idea, althjough i'd leave rogues gallery in bits and pieces. It gets a lot of use by the in character dm's and players. I think the d20 publishers forum should stay as is. Combining it with d20 games would make finding news from the publishers less stream lined. I think changing d20 games to d20/3e might work although most D&D stuff seems to go into general disscussion. A D&D: previous additions forum would be cool. 

I don't think we need an OT forum at all, i think the non rpg sci-fi forum cleared most of that up. As to the {Hivemind} well, there's no need IMO to to do anything with it, let alone provide a specific forum. It's become pretty self moderating and obeys Piratecats rules, best bet is to just ignore it.  I'm not sure the Rules forum is all that nessary, although i never go there and tend to forget about it. Maybe that forum could get phased out and let general hand rules questions. You might get away with combineing marketplace and games seeking gamers into a personnal add forum or something like that. I'd also slap it into the non-rpg specific section. Then you could combine house rules,plots and places, and the coversion forums into the DM's forum and put that in the D&D/d20 system section. Finally after rearanging that stuff i'd change Bit's and peices to roleplay and have In character, story hour, fight club, and rogues gallery in there.

oh, and i'd pass on a d20 modern forum as well.

anyway, there's my two coppers worth.


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## alsih2o (Nov 8, 2002)

well, it seems the "planar" forum could possibly be wiped without bothering many folks. i also think house rules and rules could be combined with some tags.


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## Crothian (Nov 8, 2002)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> *well, it seems the "planar" forum could possibly be wiped without bothering many folks. i also think house rules and rules could be combined with some tags. *




I think combining house rules and rules is a bad idea.  It might confuse people into thinking that some house rules are core rules, and you might get people asking actual rules questions getting house rule responses.  Both of the forums seem to get a good deal of traffic anyway.


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## Umbran (Nov 8, 2002)

I don't get over into House Rules much, but usually the Rules forum gets plenty enough traffic to call for it's own forum.  

While maybe there's lots of Story Hour characters posted in the Rogue's Gallery, I don't know if that's any reason to not combine into one big DM's people, places, things and idea tidbits forum.  It would, in fact, encourage DMs to read the Story Hours for ideas.  Woudln't that be a good thing?


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## Buttercup (Nov 9, 2002)

I'd like to respectfully suggest that the Hivemind should consider Nutkin Land as their forum, if they really think they need a separate one.  Morrus has made it clear many times that he doesn't want an off topic forum, so that ought to be an end of the matter.


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## Ravellion (Nov 9, 2002)

Buttercup said:
			
		

> *Well, Plots & Places and Rogue's Gallery are both really for discussing topics that only apply to DMs.  You could combine them into a DM forum.  This might or might not include house rules.  Since many of us who DM know some of our players read these boards from time to time, it might be nice to put all DM related stuff into one place, so we could warn our players to just stay out of that forum.  I don't have any great attachment to this idea, it's just off the top of my head.*



Ooooh! Me like!



			
				Buttercup said:
			
		

> *I don't play any of the previous editions, but I do think it might be nice to have a forum for them.  You could either put it in the D&D/D20 section, or change the name of that one to D&D3E/D20 and put the previous edition forum in Bits & Pieces, for which there might be a better name.  Miscellany, for example. *



 Nah, I think all games should be discussable in the same forums. Wher would you draw the line? What about everquest which is more or less d20? General RPG is fine IMHO. Just make sure you post in the subject line if it's not 3e. It is a D&D/d20 site after all, so having general RPG not include d20 games would be silly.

Rav


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## arwink (Nov 9, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't think any of the real Hivemind people want their own Forum.  PC asked them to limitit to three threads and they have done so willingly.  So, I don't really think this is an issue. *




I'd agree with that.  Three threads of silliness/randomness is more than enough.  I usually only pay attention to two at a time unless there's not much else happening on the boards.  An entire forum of such threads doesn't really seem like a great idea.


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## Sir Osis of Liver (Nov 9, 2002)

Yeah, hivemind forum not needed at all.


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## Umbran (Nov 9, 2002)

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *...however I would not mind getting rid of all the OT in general and combining that with hivemind et all, into another forum. *




Well, there's been a long-standing policy - there will be no OT forum.  And I think it's a good one.

It is a good thing to leven the general discussion with some other things that are of interest, but not strictly on-topic.  It keeps the intellectual environment a little more light and lively, IMHO.


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## Piratecat (Nov 9, 2002)

There won't be any OT forum. That's not up for discussion; the occasional OT post can live in General Discussion.

Rules and House Rules should absolutely stay separate. 

Until volume mandates otherwise, I think d20 Modern should stay in d20 Games.

d20 Publishers is its own, vibrant forum, and I think it should stay this way. Having specific access to so many publishers in one forum is one of the things that makes EN World special.

Our big concern for combining Plots & Places with Rogue's Gallery is that in order for P&P to work, it has to have more traffic.  When we combine them, we'll be a lot more dilligent about moving "how do I do this in my campaign?" and " give me ideas" threads into this forum.

I would like to see D&D Software become Software and Computers, allowing for a little more variety.

Finally, I'd be okay combining Conversions into General Discussion.  It gets almost no traffic.


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## thalmin (Nov 9, 2002)

I like the idea of a seperate forum for earlier editions. There are many people still playing these, and they need a good place to share ideas. Placing such discussions in the General forum would lead to confusion, plus the posts would be lost there.

By all means keep Rules and House Rules seperate. They each generate a lot of traffic and serve different purposes.

It may be worth considering a d20 Modern forum. Interest seems high on the consumer level. We should all know better in a week or so, and I don't think we are going to see any of these board changes this weekend anyway.


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## Sir Osis of Liver (Nov 9, 2002)

Is traffic a bigger concideration then functionality when it comes to organisation of the forums? Or are they of equal importance?


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## Piratecat (Nov 9, 2002)

Got an example?

The general rule of thumb is that high forum traffic is good. Forums are only split off when there is a specific need for them. Thus, when enough threads of a specific type are being generated AND the people who like them are hollering that they disappear off the first page too quickly, a new forum might be created.

The plots forum fails in this regard; not enough traffic = not enough good ideas = no incentive to post there.


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## Umbran (Nov 9, 2002)

Sir Osis of Liver said:
			
		

> *Is traffic a bigger concideration then functionality when it comes to organisation of the forums? Or are they of equal importance? *




From my observation, the two are not entirely separate.  A forum with too little traffic does not function - it serves no real purpose if too few people read and post to it.


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## Blood Jester (Nov 10, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *...Finally, I'd be okay combining Conversions into General Discussion.  It gets almost no traffic. *




Maybe putting Conversions into House Rules instead?  Seems to fit better (they are 'non-official' rules, so to speak) and they would not face the same flood of posts burying them as quickly and completely.

Just a thought.


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## Telgian (Nov 10, 2002)

> well, it seems the "planar" forum could possibly be wiped without bothering many folks.
> --alsih2o



Given a choice in the matter, I would prefer it moved to somewhere like "Hosted D&D Settings and d20 Games" than just being "wiped".

But then, I am a tad biased.

Telgian.


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## Jeph (Nov 10, 2002)

Blood Jester said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Maybe putting Conversions into House Rules instead?  Seems to fit better (they are 'non-official' rules, so to speak) and they would not face the same flood of posts burying them as quickly and completely.
> 
> Just a thought. *




I strongly agree. House is much more similar to Conversions than General is.


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## garyh (Nov 10, 2002)

Here's a thought on Rogues Gallery...

You could have the RG stay as the home for IC and Story Hour game and fold "show off" and "critique this" PCs into Plots and Places, renaming that as maybe a "DM Toolkit."  Might get more traffic for the DM area...


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## Jeph (Nov 11, 2002)

. . . since we're on the topic of reorganizing things, could you nix the sarcastic smiley? I don't think I've ever seen it not used in flames or posts that have been mistaken as flames. It really has negative karma, IHMO. All the other smileys serve to keep the discussion lighthearted and let others know that you're joking. When a rolleyes pops up, the first thing that you think is, 'he thinks that my ideas/opinions are a pile of crap,' weather the source of said smiley actually did or not.

And please, Buttercup and Dragongirl, we have too few female members already. Don't drive each other off. And don't use that goddamn smiley.


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## EricNoah (Nov 11, 2002)

Hmmmmm....

I'm gonna try an experiment.  I intended this to be a "help us solve a problem" thread I'm going to weed out the stuff that doesn't help solve the issue of too many/too few/unused forums.  That sound ok to everyone?  *begins snipping*


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## ColonelHardisson (Nov 11, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *Finally, I'd be okay combining Conversions into General Discussion.  It gets almost no traffic. *




Yeah, tell me about it. While I doubt it's the main cause, since we switched the Middle Earth d20 discussions over into the Conversions forum, we've seen it, and threads like it, move along at a glacial pace. Even traffic to the MEd20 site has almost ceased, or at least it seems to have done so, judging by the lack of submissions and comments we get. I figure that interest in the project simply faded after everyone who was interested got what they wanted from the site, but I can't help feeling that if it had remained in General it would be receiving more attention. Not a complaint, really, just an observation.

Also, some of the divisions in subject matter can get hazy when there are too many forums. For example, a thread about how much energy it would take to warm the earth's oceans by one degree was shifted over into the non-RPG fantasy/scifi forum. While I think that forum is a good idea, that particular thread seemed not to fit there, and probably would have been better off in General. But, i can see why a moderator might decide to move it there.


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## Mathew_Freeman (Nov 12, 2002)

I pretty much like everything as it is, but I can see where you are going with moving some of those forums together. the [Hivemind] does behave itself now, anyway.

I think we need to promote all the different forums a little more. there is a lot of traffic in GD, but a lot less in other forums, such as non-RPG sci-fi/fantasy. I'm sure people would post there if they could be bothered to go look at it...maybe there is something you guys can do about that?


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## EricNoah (Nov 12, 2002)

Ok, for starters I renamed the Software forum and adjusted the description accordingly -- so now OT computer questions will go to the Software & Computers forum.  I also adjusted the description of the D20 Games forum to include d20 Modern.


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## EricNoah (Nov 12, 2002)

Ok, things are starting to take shape here....

How about another "group" of forums, like this:

DM Toolkit Forums:
-- House Rules (the existing House Rules forum)
-- People, Places & Plots (combine the Rogues Gallery and the Plots & Places forums)

And then Conversions would be folded into one of those as well, perhaps?

-----------

Another issue is, should the Software/Computers forum, then, be moved out of the D&D/D20 System forums group?  If so, to where?  I was thinking it might go well with the Non-RPG Specific forums (books/movies, art/miniatures, software/computers).  Thoughts on that?


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## Piratecat (Nov 12, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *How about another "group" of forums, like this:
> 
> DM Toolkit Forums:
> -- House Rules (the existing House Rules forum)*




I'd be against this. House rules is one of the most active forums, and I personally really like having it up at the top next to Rules. In some sort of odd way, it celebrates the Rule 0 tendency of making the game your own.  



> *
> -- People, Places & Plots (combine the Rogues Gallery and the Plots & Places forums)*




I'm good with this. It'll mean that we move "plot" threads more aggressively, of course.



> *Another issue is, should the Software/Computers forum, then, be moved out of the D&D/D20 System forums group?  If so, to where?  I was thinking it might go well with the Non-RPG Specific forums (books/movies, art/miniatures, software/computers).  Thoughts on that? *




I like it!


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## garyh (Nov 12, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> **snip* DM Toolkit *snip**




That's _my_ suggestion.  I'm so proud!!


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## Deedlit (Nov 12, 2002)

Personally, I don't want either the rogues gallery forum or the conversions forum to be merged with another.  The rogue's gallery is an excellent tool, and I like it's small amount of traffic, making it easy to look up the stats for PBP games on the IC board(Do you have any idea how much of a pain it would be to either bump every day or go back 20 pages to find stuff?).  As for the conversions board, I fear that a merger will make conversions fall by the wayside, and besides I want Lodoss d20 to stay on the first page.


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## Crothian (Nov 12, 2002)

Could there be a forum in Story Hour and in the Play by Posts place for people to have threads with their characters there?  And then merge rogue gallories with the other?


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## EricNoah (Nov 12, 2002)

Ok, here's another idea:

I would like a better name for the forum known as "Non-RPG Sci-Fi/Fantasy Discussion". 

I was thinking "Fantasy & Sci Fi Books, Movies & TV" -- pretty much covers it all, eh?


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## Piratecat (Nov 12, 2002)

It does!


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## Jeph (Nov 12, 2002)

In order to maintain accessability and minimize pain-in-the-ares-ness, all Story Hours and IC threads should probably have a link to the character thread in the first post.

Oh, and BTW: Should Fight Club and IC be in the same general group? And if so, should Story Hour be with those two? A kind of Roleplaying category.


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## Knight Otu (Nov 12, 2002)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *In order to maintain accessability and minimize pain-in-the-ares-ness, all Story Hours and IC threads should probably have a link to the character thread in the first post.
> *



I wanted to say the same thing. 



> *
> Oh, and BTW: Should Fight Club and IC be in the same general group? And if so, should Story Hour be with those two? A kind of Roleplaying category. *



Sounds good to me.


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## Sir Osis of Liver (Nov 13, 2002)

I'd lump conversions in with house rules. Make the change Sfi-fi/fantasy media, put the computer forum with it and art gallery.

I think story hour would fit well in a role play section with in character and fight club. I can't say i like the idea of merging plots and places with rogues gallery, on the surface it seems like a good idea, but i think it will be a pain for the in character players and the story hour people that use it to present stats from thier games.


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## Jeph (Nov 13, 2002)

Sir Osis of Liver said:
			
		

> *I'd lump conversions in with house rules.  *




Seems logical. They're quite similar: One's new rules for DnD, the other's new ways to play d20.


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## Morrus (Nov 13, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Ok, here's another idea:
> 
> I would like a better name for the forum known as "Non-RPG Sci-Fi/Fantasy Discussion".
> 
> I was thinking "Fantasy & Sci Fi Books, Movies & TV" -- pretty much covers it all, eh? *




I like that.  In fact, I'm gonna go change it now!


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## Liquide (Nov 13, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I like that.  In fact, I'm gonna go change it now!  *




No more Buffy threads in General for you then


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## Mark (Nov 13, 2002)

I'm quoting myself to restate and idea that I think must have gotten lost in the shuffle...



			
				Mark said:
			
		

> *I'd like to add the suggestion that the Art Gallery & Miniatures forum be retitled the Art Gallery, Maps & Miniatures forum (and even allowing the occasional mapping software question to be left in/moved to it.  Those types of software questions do not arise that often and can be very helpful to artists (just as threads that start as art showcases often have a large component of artistic software content.) *




Perhaps *Art Gallery, Cartography & Miniatures* forum?


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## EricNoah (Nov 13, 2002)

Mark, you must be blind, that's exactly what it says!  

(*giggles* ok, I just changed it.)


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## Mark (Nov 13, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Mark, you must be blind, that's exactly what it says!
> 
> (*giggles* ok, I just changed it.)
> 
> *




It's amazing how sometimes I can look at something and not realize what it...

HEY!


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## tleilaxu (Nov 15, 2002)

Personally, I like the forums fine as they are


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## Crothian (Nov 15, 2002)

tleilaxu said:
			
		

> *Personally, I like the forums fine as they are *




And I think they should all be called Bob


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## CRGreathouse (Nov 15, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *And I think they should all be called Bob   *




Each forum has its own intonation, if not spelling.


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## Crothian (Nov 15, 2002)

CRGreathouse said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Each forum has its own intonation, if not spelling. *




Exactly, I think it would really workout well.


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## Jeph (Nov 15, 2002)

Yeah, you could say the House Rules like 'bob,' and General like 'bob,' and IC just a bit higher, you know, like 'bob,' . . .


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## Crothian (Nov 15, 2002)

Jeph said:
			
		

> *Yeah, you could say the House Rules like 'bob,' and General like 'bob,' and IC just a bit higher, you know, like 'bob,' . . . *




It would be great.  I really think this has high potential.


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## Davelozzi (Nov 21, 2002)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *Our big concern for combining Plots & Places with Rogue's Gallery is that in order for P&P to work, it has to have more traffic.  When we combine them, we'll be a lot more dilligent about moving "how do I do this in my campaign?" and " give me ideas" threads into this forum. *




Great idea, so long as all the moderators are on board with moving relevant threads there and we can give the forum the necessary jump start.  It would be a great forum if we could just increase the traffic there.  But right now, honestly, it's just a matter of 'should I follow the rules and post something that no one will ever see?'  Or 'should I slip it into General and hope none of the mods notice?'


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## Creamsteak (Nov 22, 2002)

I'd still like to have an "index of characters" from all the IC games available to me. Also, I think that the marketplace doesnt' fit in with bits n pieces...

My solution, to appease these people, is to create a forum that is specifically meant for Story Hour character lists/stats, Play by Post character lists/stats, home-game character lists/stats, and other groups of stat blocks. Rogues gallery (as time progressed) has increased to a decent pace, and gets a few posts every day. It wasn't like that before, but it would be nice to divide those two genres.

The part of Rogues gallery that most people use (the subjects that are discussions and stats, characters and examples) should be merged with plots, places, and people (my new name for such a thread), while the other half of Rogues Gallery: Character Encycleopedia (or some such) is used almost like an index of character groups and such.

That seems fun to me. Allow me to demonstrate with a Diagram...


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