# Really Good feats for a Duskblade?



## Juomari Veren (Jun 20, 2010)

I have a Grey-Elf Duskblade that serves as the leader of the party we're in.

Right now, he's level 18, and the DM is letting me re-train him. Feats for levels 1-6 are already chosen(Run, Practiced Spellcaster, Battle Caster).

I need selections for the other four feats. What are some good ideas?


----------



## Shin Okada (Jun 20, 2010)

Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior) .... A must have for a duskblade.

Power Attack .... When you can't make a full-attack in some reason, use True Strike as a swift action and convert all of your BAB into damage (use a two-handed weapon for doubling).

Spell Penetration & Greater Spell Penetration .... Most (all?) of the attack spells in duskblade spell list allows SR. At higher level campaign, you must expect that many of the monsters have SR which is hard to penetrate even with your spell power class feature.

Empower Spell ....  Whether if you can apply metamagic feat without increasing required time when using Arcane Channeling is debatable. I say yes. But if your DM says no, also take Rapid Metamagic feat (Complete Mage). Empowered Vampiric Touch delivered through Arcane Channeling is nasty.

Energy Substitution : Acid (Complete Arcane) .... This helps a duskblade to deal with monsters with resistance/immunity. Polar Ray is a strong spell but useless against something immune to cold.

Close-Quarter Fighting (Complete Warrior)  .... This feat is good for any melee combatants.

#I do not recommend those 3 feats in your list

Run .... Why you need this feat when your PC can use dimension door?

Practiced Spellcaster .... Doesn't do any good for a single class duskblade who already has CL = his HDs.

Battle Caster .... At level 18, you can simply buy a heavy armor made of mithral. A heavy armor made of mithral is a medium armor.


----------



## Empirate (Jun 20, 2010)

Right on the money there, *Shin Okada*. Let me add the following:
Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar are great for Duskblades with their full BAB and good HP.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain is almost always worth it, combine with Improved Trip for more niceness. Use a Guisarme instead if you want to save the feat.
You could try and get Whirlwind Attack for full attack channeling, but you would have to sacrifice most of your feat slots for this. Still a powerful trick.


----------



## Runestar (Jun 20, 2010)

If you want whirlwind, there is a weapon property in MIC which lets you whirlwind 3/day.

If you have decent knowledge scores, consider the knowledge devotion feat from complete champion. At this level, you should be assured of at least +4 to-hit/damage. 

Practiced spellcaster is useless unless your caster lv has been lowered for some reason (eg: you also took the mageslayer feat?).


----------



## Juomari Veren (Jun 20, 2010)

My DM allows for crazy powerful armors that function as light as leather but are actually full plate. That being the case, If I can just cast through it, I can run at 150 feet in Heavy armor and still get all of it's benefits while ignoring the Arcane Spell failure. That's also where Battle Caster comes in. It saves me money, because the functional Full Plate was free, from a raid we did earlier on in the campaign.

Practiced Spellcaster is precautionary for epic level, because I have no intention of trying "Epic Duskblade", I need to find a new gimmick that will allow me to have more options, and that puts a cap on my CL.

That'd also be where things like Fortify Spell and The Spell Penetration Tree come in, also.

Thanks for all of the suggestions, guys.


----------



## Shin Okada (Jun 20, 2010)

Chaosvii7 said:


> Practiced Spellcaster is precautionary for epic level, because I have no intention of trying "Epic Duskblade", I need to find a new gimmick that will allow me to have more options, and that puts a cap on my CL.




Then check Abjurant Champion prestige class in Complete Mage. It gives you full-spellcasting progressions and various additional spellcasting/combat abilities. As a Duskblade, you can almost automatically qualify for the prestige class (as you are already proficient in martial weapons and given Combat Casting as a bonus feat, all you need is at least one 1st-level Abjuration spell in your spells known list. Resist Energy, maybe?).


----------



## Juomari Veren (Jun 20, 2010)

Shin Okada said:


> Then check Abjurant Champion prestige class in Complete Mage. It gives you full-spellcasting progressions and various additional spellcasting/combat abilities. As a Duskblade, you can almost automatically qualify for the prestige class (as you are already proficient in martial weapons and given Combat Casting as a bonus feat, all you need is at least one 1st-level Abjuration spell in your spells known list).




I will.

Say, while we're talking PrCs, is there a notably good one gearing towards Evocation magic, too?


----------



## Shin Okada (Jun 20, 2010)

Chaosvii7 said:


> Say, while we're talking PrCs, is there a notably good one gearing towards Evocation magic, too?




At this moment I can't think of any Evocation-specific prestige class which a Duskblade can qualify for.

But Fatespinner in Complete Arcane allows you to control fate (dice) in various ways. The class can be qualified only with some skill ranks and spells known. Which is not hard for a Duskblade.

Thus, say, you can be a 20th-level Duskblade and then take 5 levels of Abjurant Champion and 4 levels of Fatespinner. After hitting epic level, you don't need to worry about BAB progression of the classes. So this combination will cover up to 29th-level and gives you full caster level of 29.

But ...... how far will your campaign will likely to go? Epic level rules for 3.5e is not fully covered. And you must rely largely on SRD and yet must create a lot of rules and data by yourselves.

If your campaign will likely to hit really high level (say, 30+ or 40+ level), I strongly recommend you and your DM to create your own version of Epic progressions for classes and prestige classes not covered by those rules.


----------



## rgard (Jun 20, 2010)

Shin Okada said:


> Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior) .... A must have for a duskblade.
> 
> Power Attack .... When you can't make a full-attack in some reason, use True Strike as a swift action and convert all of your BAB into damage (use a two-handed weapon for doubling).
> 
> ...





Shin, good stuff as usual. I tried to give you XPs, but have to spread some around first.

Thanks,
Rich


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 21, 2010)

You might find more ideas in Martial Arcanist database in my sig.

Before going there, other feats I'd consider:

Reserve metamagic feats.

Combat Reflexes feat tree coupled with a polearm (if you're not going with a Power Attack build)


----------



## Juomari Veren (Jun 21, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Reserve metamagic feats.




Yes.


----------



## WhiteRaven810 (Jun 21, 2010)

Versatile Spellcaster from Races of Dragon allows a spontaneous caster to pop two lower level spells to cast one spell of a higher level. It's excellent for a battle caster like a Duskblade.

If you're weilding a two handed weapon (unlikely if your a Grey Elf), take Power Attack. Quick cast _True Strike_ with the Duskblade ability gained at fifth level. Then charge and drop all your BAB into Power Attack to just rape a monster. Casting _Blade of Blood_ the round prior makes the damage dealt all so sexy.


----------



## Empirate (Jun 21, 2010)

Blade of Blood is one of the more useless spells in the game. Deal damage to yourself to deal paltry more damage to an enemy, that you also have to hit to deal said extra damage at all? What were they smoking? Hell, the damage wouldn't even be impressive if a) you incurred no damage yourself, and b) at least dealt the extra damage automatically.
True Strike-->Power Attack is good, but still nothing to drool about, as it's capped by your BAB. Very good in a charge, or with PA enhancers, though (Leap Attack, Battle Jump, Valorous weapon, Headlong Rush, you name it).

With Arcane Strike, you have a way of turning all those low-level spell slots into something useful. It's a free action to use, so no limit to the extra 1d4s of damage you can inflict. Only the highest attack bonus applies, though (similar bonuses don't stack).

Also, I was wondering, what are


			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Reserve Metamagic Feats



???

If you mean Reserve Feats, those aren't that useful for a Duskblade (Except maybe Minor Shapechange, if you can get it).

Metamagic Feats aren't that useful either, since you don't have high-level spell slots to use them, and you're a spontaneous caster. Maybe if you can use Versatile Spellcaster for it, but it's still not really optimal.

Bottom line: don't pick your feats with regard to enhancing your spellcasting abilities. Pick feats to be good at melee instead. You're a gish, that means you're a melee guy first and foremost, with a little extra versatility thrown in for fun. What you're not is a primary spellcaster.


----------



## Mand (Jun 21, 2010)

Knowledge Devotion.

Dump *all* your skill points in the various monster-recognition knowledge skills, and laugh at the silly fighters who have to take four feats for half the bonus of your one feat.  And, if you don't need the extra hit, you can dump the hit bonus into damage with power attack.  At 18th, you're going to have 21 ranks, probably somewhere in the order of 7-8 int mod and maybe some item bonus to the checks I can't remember.  With +8 int mod, you get +4 to hit and damage by rolling a 2 on the check.  +5 to hit and damage by rolling a 7.  Compare that to greater weapon spec which is 4 feats for +2 hit and +4 damage.

Power Attack is really great, as you get tons of hit bonuses that you can afford to dump.  Even the lowly Shocking Grasp gives a +3 hit most of the time, during a channel, for free.  Being limited by BAB isn't so much a big deal as you can still nearly assure a hit even if you do chuck it all for damage, and a very large amount of damage if you use a 2h weapon and Leap Attack.

Conc and Jump (if you're going for leap attack) might make contenders for some points, but other than that, just dump into Knowledges.

Depending on how much combat you get in any given day, Empower Spell is good, but keep in mind duskblade spell levels are harder to come by than other casters.  I tend to prefer things that don't have much of a level adjustment (if any).  Spell pen is very good.

Oh, here's a question I had come up - if I use arcane channeling, what is the crit range for the attack?  Normal weapon range?  Meaning I could crit a Shocking Grasp on 15-20 using a keen falchion?


----------



## Empirate (Jun 21, 2010)

Good advice mostly, although you'll probably want some other skills but  knowledges only. Concentration is a must have, as you'll cast in melee quite often. Spellcraft is another important one, and Jump if you want to Battle Jump/Leap Attack. Tumble is important for anything melee, although you might have teleportation options later on. So all skillpoints into knowledge skills is quite an investment. But even only one point per knowledge skill nets a nice +1/+1 bonus, with a chance for more - much better than, say, Weapon Focus. I just think Knowledge Devotion is often overrated compared with e.g. Animal Devotion.



Mand said:


> Oh, here's a question I had come up - if I use arcane channeling, what is the crit range for the attack?  Normal weapon range?  Meaning I could crit a Shocking Grasp on 15-20 using a keen falchion?




Yes, you use the crit range of the weapon. This is another nice thing about channeling your spells. Spells only deal double damage on a crit, though, so no x4 Vampiric Touch damage with a Scythe.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 21, 2010)

Empirate said:


> If you mean Reserve Feats, those aren't that useful for a Duskblade (Except maybe Minor Shapechange, if you can get it).




IMHO, the Reserve metamagic feats are a decent deal for almost any spellcaster...depending upon their spell selection.  Being able to generate a magical effect regardless of any components, being grappled and so forth is nothing to sneeze at.  Several give you bonuses to caster levels in addition to their "reserve" power.  All of them increase your PC's flexibility.


----------



## Juomari Veren (Jun 22, 2010)

> Blade of Blood is one of the more useless spells in the game. Deal  damage to yourself to deal paltry more damage to an enemy, that you also  have to hit to deal said extra damage at all?



DO NOT even say that. That spell is the greatest spell in the universe.

My Duskblade's chances of missing at this point are amazing as is, he has over 215 HP, and 5d6 every attack for 20+ rounds straight is the greatest thing ever.

Couple that with a 20d4 Arcane Strike and you can take down anything in front of you. Trust me.


----------



## Shin Okada (Jun 22, 2010)

Chaosvii7 said:


> DO NOT even say that. That spell is the greatest spell in the universe.
> 
> My Duskblade's chances of missing at this point are amazing as is, he has over 215 HP, and 5d6 every attack for 20+ rounds straight is the greatest thing ever.




I don't say Blade of Blood is a useless spell. But what do you mean "every attack for 20+ rounds"? Blade of blood inflicts +5d6 damage only once/cast. The duration is 1 round/level or until discharged.


----------



## Runestar (Jun 22, 2010)

That and burning so many slots to fuel arcane strike is way too indulgent for my tastes, since the attack bonus does not stack. So you are better off just using it 1/round, and funneling any excess to power attack. You don't really have that many 5th lv slots to waste either. 

Good nova tactic to use as an npc though.


----------



## Mand (Jun 22, 2010)

Empirate said:


> Good advice mostly, although you'll probably want some other skills but  knowledges only. Concentration is a must have, as you'll cast in melee quite often. Spellcraft is another important one, and Jump if you want to Battle Jump/Leap Attack. Tumble is important for anything melee, although you might have teleportation options later on. So all skillpoints into knowledge skills is quite an investment. But even only one point per knowledge skill nets a nice +1/+1 bonus, with a chance for more - much better than, say, Weapon Focus. I just think Knowledge Devotion is often overrated compared with e.g. Animal Devotion.




Eh, I disagree on the importance of the generally-mandatory caster skills for Duskblades.  If you're using arcane channeling or quickcasting, you're not taking AoO anyway.  How often are you going to be casting a non-channeled, non-quickcast spell in melee?  Likewise with Spellcraft - you're not (and shouldn't be) the party's main arcanist, so you don't need to be the one to identify active effects and the like and you're not going to be counterspelling anyone.  As far as Tumble goes...it's not a class skill and you have bad Dex, so you're not going to be getting very good checks at it all too quickly so I'm skeptical of how useful it would be as compared to say Jump, which I did say is a good choice for Leap Attack etc.

I really like the idea of building a complete character around Knowledge Devotion, rather than simply as a charop exercise.  You're going to be hard pressed to convince me of a character concept where a duskblade taking Animal Devotion makes sense.  Knowledge devotion, on the other hand, with the complete knowledge list as class skills, fits the duskblade perfectly as the Big Smart Fighter.  And it's amazingly effective to boot.



And yeah, Blade of Blood is terrible.  You should never learn it - Shocking Grasp is better in every way against anything that's hurt by lightning and ESPECIALLY better against things made of or wearing metal.  As was said before if you're really concerned about the flood of lightning-immune baddies coming from your DM you can always just use another spell on them or go for Energy Sub.


----------



## Empirate (Jun 22, 2010)

Mand said:


> Eh, I disagree on the importance of the generally-mandatory caster skills for Duskblades.
> [...]
> I really like the idea of building a complete character around Knowledge Devotion, rather than simply as a charop exercise.  You're going to be hard pressed to convince me of a character concept where a duskblade taking Animal Devotion makes sense.
> [...]
> And yeah, Blade of Blood is terrible.  You should never learn it - Shocking Grasp is better in every way [etc.]




Fair enough. I just think Knowledge Devotion is overrated from a CO perspective (if only for the "flat bonuses instead of ability to do a new awesome stunt" bit). Thematically it's very nice for a Duskblade, I give you that. It just feels wrong to be the guy who knows it all, but can't do anything useful except hurt monsters.

And I could totally build a Duskblade around Animal Devotion with as good fluff-oomph, it really depends on the campaign and the general character concept.

Regarding Shocking Grasp: can you use Channel Spell with metamagicked spells? If so, Energy Sub is useful for a Duskblade, as you pointed out.


----------



## Dandu (Jun 22, 2010)

Empirate said:


> It just feels wrong to be the guy who knows it all, but can't do anything useful except hurt monsters.
> 
> 
> > You could also try to be their friend.


----------



## Fuddumz (Oct 27, 2014)

Ok, so there is some good stuff here. This game is probably long over, but I want to reply to it in case someone finds it like me. 

Precocious Apprentice from "Complete Arcane" is a great feat for your first level feat slot. Use it to take the spell "Heroics". This one really depends on your DM being more for the wording of the feat.. The feat says, "Choose one spell from a SCHOOL of magic you have access to." "Heroics" is of the Transmutation school and thanks to Animalistic Power, you have access to the transmutation school. Having the Heriocs spell gives you access to every single fighter feat. Which is Awesome. Now, if you are playing a human or have access to flaws, another precocious apprentice with the spell "Burning Sword" would not go a miss. Two great spells that would make your duskblade a MONSTER. At least when it hits level 5. They are just nice before then.

After that, in my opinion, the goal is to make your duskblade as stand-alone as possible, while being able to cast spells. SO: Shield Casting. Not provoking an attack every time you cast a spell is outstanding. 

Next is the need to use a weapon and a shield at the same time: Somatic Weaponry. 

I think that a Caster running around in Full Adamantine armor is hilarious, so: Battle Caster.

If you want to use that awesome Mercurial Greatsword or Jovar you found, but do not want to lose the benefit of having the shield: Monkey Grip.

   After that I think you should go with metamagic feats that have a low cost. Enlarge, Widen, and most importantly Energy Substitution. That compliments Burning Sword very nicely. Especially if you can talk you DM into allowing you to have Permanancy cast on it. Goes away in an anti-magic field, but SO awesome.

   Feats like Fire Burst are also great. Then you are not tapping into your spell pool to take out minions, and saving it for the big baddie.

 Some prestige classes that compliment this class are War Wizard of Cormyr, Arcane Devote, and as mentioned earlier, Abjurant Champion. To increase the Character builds versatility, I would recomend cross classing with one level of wizard at level 14. You have everything the class can really offer at that point. After that use the next levels for Abjurant Chamion. Having a caster level of 17 at level 18 for those wizrd spells is sick. Got to love it.


----------

